20 Episode results for "Tony One"

Hour 2: Rece Davis On Zoom!

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

31:39 min | 1 year ago

Hour 2: Rece Davis On Zoom!

"God's diehard batteries of the MVP of reliability the durability player of the year year after year are in the starting power hall of fame and the best part. Now, you can get them at advance auto parts YEP. Diehard batteries are now at advance auto parts, and you can score free testing and free installation with purchase of a diehard battery without an appointment put a winner under your hood adventure, auto advance, auto parts, and participating carquest locations most vehicles most locations. PC's the Dan lebatardshow with this two cats podcasts. Reese Davis has joined the Zoom Chad I. See the producers are a little bit starstruck awed swooning a bit. He does indeed look like a Disney prince will go to him in a second. I don he has an aged I don't understand how that's possible regardless Christine Lisi because the sports updates, our sacred we have to get the end finally from Christine Lisi in our segment of the show instead of the Sacred Cathedral of the sports update. So here we go. And finally, crocodiles can go through as many as eight thousand teeth over a lifetime Thank you Christine. We appreciate the way we appreciate the way that these delight you reese David thank you for joining us Sir what the hell man what is going on in your sport like what is that like what? I don't understand how you who's in charge. Well that's a good question Dan and the answer is there are several commissioners in charge and the one thing that I pointed out as disjointed as this has been an lied in the pandemic and people wanting to see unity. Having different leaders in each conference in each conference, attending to their own interest and keeping it outside the as per you in that regard as Serb college football really well over the last thirty years or so financially particularly. But in moments like this, you would like to have seen a little more cohesion. Or cooperation among those five top. Do you have a side that you take because you can be pretty neutral? You are fair. You take a side we all WanNa see college football and I think we can all agree that America doesn't exactly with its behavior around this virus deserve sports of any kind but we have a lot of money and a lot of money to get. So we throw it up this like no, that can't be disputed. We were terrible about handling the virus. We don't deserve sports. We all want sports though so which side you fall on. On on the side of the says that we don't deserve to have nice things I sure don't fall on that side. There's no question ned in that. This could have been much better. But I I can this I think if it can be played safely, I'm not trying to be neutral, Dan I've done recognizing that medical professionals can have different interpretations of different diagnoses just as it might happen you you're I went for a second third opinion. No one wants to see anyone get sick from this. No one wants to see a college team in any sport beat a becker for a spread. But there, there is data that shows in your state and others that some of the cases are improving. If they can do that, maybe we can play I'm still not sure about having these big crowds in better outdoors than than indoors. But these teams are operating in quasi bubble anyway almost without exception at least among the teams that have remained in their code infection rates have improved over the course after. After reporting back camps. So I fall on the side of if it can be done safely I think they should be able to. resear- we headed towards the place where I know Five Commissioner Separate Commissioners Assertive College football very very well in the power five ces but we headed towards the place where one person is in ours. There's one commissioner one voice making decisions for everyone. Okay. Let me tell you this guy and I've been skeptical but my friend item as Allen I don't want to steal his idea without giving improper do so I will take the idea that I had and Ivan. Made. So eloquent now it using the phrase of a question. In any walk of life. When is the last time? You saw someone willingly give up power Question no answer. Okay. Not not very often. So I think this idea that everybody's GonNa say, my goodness this has been disjointed. Let's get a commissioner. Or a czar or whatever it might be someone over the commissioner. They're certainly not going to see his power VNC AA. That at all. Might there be some mechanism to lead to greater cooperation in the future maybe, but they cooperated fairly well in in warming the College Football playoff still obviously all attending to their own interests but It remains to be seen. I don't think that this is absolutely situations situation. Well. We must have one person in charge because that means a lot of. People conferences powers giving up their power and someone who I don't know how they be convinced totally their best interest for being sir. When you see the divide that we have now just among the power five cop Guillermo, put it on the poll. Would you be okay with Reese Davis getting all the power and just going ahead and running college football for all of that would be okay. Because you're fair and also you are incredibly power hungry Davis with US ON ESPN radio Colorado state quietly because it's Colorado state, some awful things seem to be happening over there. If you believe the report if that Kinda stuff is happening at Colorado state a nowhere program race like how dirty is the sport if the USA. Today. Report is true on what was happening at Lsu here where. Darius Geiss is You know accused of a couple of rapes and it's according to USA Today it's going to administrators and they're not doing anything. How dirty is this thing that we love? That would if that is completely true and false item untold obviously, it's attains. In contact with people who have some knowledge of that situation there those who Contend that the coaching staff anyway was not necessarily aware of those allegations against guys. I'm not here say that's right or wrong I'm just saying someone close to the situation. That would follow protocol if it were title nine investigation, you know we all know that occasionally those get late there's bad stuff that happens in everything Dan they're certainly bad actors in in college football there's been cheating for as long as this existed understands this no one condones it. It's just happened. This is far more serious than that. Obviously the dirtiest guy situation particularly, but as it pertains to the pandemic. Every program on not in the meetings every day. Obviously they're gonNA. Tell me put the best foot forward when I talked to people close to the I I get that sort of the nature of the of the business. But they've been most of the players were all the players in the program's spoken to have been told that you're not comfortable. You know step out you can step back. You can go home no penalty, I I, know that there is. Disagreement over that with the player Washington state not too long ago. But by and large I, don't think these programs can afford to hide poor behavior as it relates to the pandemic because we've seen example after example, after example, in this off season that if people aren't shooting straight with the players, the players are going to use their voice. Now, that's a good thing. In that can help clean up a lot of the situations that you're talking about dependent as released a Darius Guide situation. That's a that's a much more horrific in heinous thing and if that if any of that is true, if anyone looked the other way, then those those people should be held accountable and and no, and not spared at all as result of. Race I feel like we're celebrating the wrong conferences. By for dinner with my wife and I, am nervous. I something doesn't feel right about it. Should I be doing this? Am I supposed to be doing this? I think with the big ten impact twelve when. They made the truly difficult unpopular decision and there's know hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. There's a reason they made that decision not the decision they wanted to make yet the conferences we are celebrating the ones that the side of the play I am the big ten in the pack twelve made the responsible decision based on the uncertainty and based on where we're at with this bad Democrat now but it's a reasonable tape but the one thing I would point out is that. All three conferences in particularly Greg Sankey who I think is has been very good leader. In all of this, he'd never wanted to the the SEC is playing at any cost. He said, we are taking steps toward being able to him. We hope that is the case. So they're continuing on a step by step protocol they. Pushed. The start season back to the end of September in order to see how things go on campus and all of those types of things. So I don't know accelerates the right word I think you can come to reasonable decision on both sides I don't think that the big. Hesitant to play was unreasonable certainly unfortunate unfortunate layers in the fans and those have been the conference who obviously differed with that decision but it's not unreasonable to take these precautions by the same token, the medical professionals, many of whom are also being relied upon by professional sports who are planning to play and the other three conferences. Think that the risk can be mitigated to the point that they can play without bringing, undo a risk or harm upon the players. That just seems to be a difference in in opinion of how the is handled by young people how they committed spread with these i. know they don't like the term. Basically these are wide bubbles that that the most of these teams are operating right now. So I don't look at it necessarily at this point of being a right or wrong decision particularly when the conferences. Who are still pursuing playing in my judgment have been pretty careful about saying we're taking steps toward playing. We plan to play hoped to play the they said that they're playing it. Any call race were totally out of time. We've ruined the clock here, but just two quick questions, quick answers your hair does it have a lot of wonderful expensive gelling it right now now? Just leftover from yesterday I've got to go work out half. Okay. Not at the moment. Okay. Second question how do you keep that smile sparkling that way. Well I don't have an endorsement deal with the particular toothpaste, but I would say, just make sure you use your electric toothbrush floss and do all those things you need to do. Good dental hygiene. Thank you some life advice with reese. Davis we went very serious some college football whenever you want to come on and just give them morsel of life advice like that would be happy to take it flaws kids. Thank you. We appreciate your time. This is radio, right? Okay. Moving on three three times. If you missed any of the show. You can listen to all three hours of the Dan, Le Batard show plus our Miami, only hour and the big Sui on demand in the ESPN APP ED subscribe to eleven targeted friends podcast network featuring south beach sessions to potty mystery grape please rate ed subscribed new episodes of posted every week wherever you get your podcast Dan, it's time for straight talk. Brought to you by straight talk wireless speaking of which I did want to help the audience with some of the changes there have been around here. A tweeter has written in. We've had a lot of audio difficulties this week. Why is God's microphones so much louder than everyone else's on TV broadcast? Is there any way to fix that I'm constantly having to adjust the volume during the show? We've had a ton of technical difficulties and I don't think anybody's manning us over on. ESPN news. So I would say, don't watch it that way because it's not nobody nobody's paying attention to what's happening with the television product But if you WANNA, see off today or at least watch the game between the heat and the Pacers today you will have an opportunity to do so on. Twitch Tony tell the people how they can do that. If you're part of this laboratory infringe universe if you're frustrated by the fact that you can't get us on television, we'll sort of try and do it ourselves to the best that we can on twitch today. So how is this GonNa Work Tony? What's the information people need if at one o'clock today they want to watch heat pacers with us. Or we're going to put it on the social media handles at Lebatardshow and if you WANNA go natively and find it on twitch twitch, dot TV slash lebatardshow, and friends all one word I'm. So we'll be there hanging out for the majority of the game and we'll get to some shenanigans all right and so some people are writing in here like somebody tweeted into God's shortening this show by an hour is incredibly short sighted and has hurt the continuity and quality of that program If that is your complaint and I've been getting some of that this week I understand and I ask you to just give us a little time to figure out. How? We're going to do all this stuff because on top of just having done it for three days so far we've also had unholy audio issues all week also faulty premise. The show is an shortened it short on terrestrial radio in the national format but you're actually getting we've done the math getting a lot more show now daily a lot too much probably given our audio difficulties, but that's not how it's going to be the entire time. We don't want you to always be chasing the show. We understand why you enjoyed listening to all three hours live. We are trying to pivot not by choice, an hour was taken away and so we are stumbling around. On the treadmill a little bit trying to figure it out we ask for your patience but we're telling you like today you watch game with us on twitch. That's not something we do a whole lot of. So if you want with the show to sort of watch the game virtually with us, you'll be able to do that. We haven't done this before we're going to try it I'm sure we're GONNA, screw it up and a number of different ways and I'm sure you will enjoy those screw ups because they are a hallmark of everything that we do around here speaking of screw ups. We've gotta get to this Brennaman story again because I don't think. That you get this combination, Stu gods of serious and stupid in the same place, very often serious and funny serious and silly because you've got both here you could discuss this story very seriously by talking about the damage done by ant-, anti, gay, slurs, and language of the sort, or you can spend a lot of time laughing at just the total awkwardness in the apology that couldn't have gone worse because you've got a hall of fame broadcaster from a hall of Fame Broadcasting Family his voices baseball his name is baseball. You've got this guy apologizing in the middle of the game and feeling the need to give play by play of what happens in the worst thing. Happens while he's in his apology, a dude hits a home run, and so you get sambre apology about serious thing mixed with sombre sad homerun called the saddest homerun call in the history of Homerun. Call. Police things off Jim Day's GonNa be taken us the rest of the way through this game. As Holland takes over on the mound. I made a comment earlier tonight that I guess went out over the year that I am deeply. Ashamed of. If I have heard anyone out there. I can't tell you how much I saved from the bottom of my heart. I'm so very, very sorry. I pride myself and think of myself as. A man of faith. As here's a drive in a deep. So it'd be a home run. Sorry. And so that'll make four nothing ballgame I'm sorry. I don't know if I'd be putting on his headset again. I don't know if it's going to be for the reds. From my boss' at Fox apologize for the people who signed my turn that down we'll hear the rest of it. He apologized a whole bunch of people in the wrong order. He's probably got a let the run call go there right? Off. Yes. Yes. That would have made it funding though I'm just telling you the awkward comedic time. There are a number of things that are funny here including The ball sailing into judgment free zone sponsored judgment free zone in a game being played only because baseball is grabbing dollars. I pride myself in think of myself as A. A man of faith. As you drive in a deep listening by Kosti. Listen, the timing you can't write that better listen to the crash. Combined with the perfect sentence of thinking of yourself as a man of faith and when you hear the crack of this back, I pride myself and think of myself as A. Man Of. Faith. Driving a diesel fuel by Costa. Janos it will be a home run. That is straight talk it is brought to you by straight talk wireless no contract no compromise. These show aim free time for some ads. Mike what is the courtesy I've gotta give on that sound played Fox. Sports Ohio. Now I'm not. A rare time where we're doing mccurdy, they don't want the courtesy. All right more bonus sports update from Christine Lisi. GimMe that Banger. Or not. And sorry I'm sorry Christine Mutsu, God's because I've only been telling him for six months to mute as microphone every time we come back. And finally, chipotle goes through about two hundred, fifty, thousand pounds of Avocados every day which. I don't write these by the way is almost as much as Dan ways. You don't know Lotta. Christine listen you're going to need to shape up around here because I'm not going to shape up. Shape and you've got to do better than that. Do not soften those you. You have to do this very you have to come in strident and you have to kill me and you have to read what's red. They're just like Scotts did accept more professional. Exactly right mistake number two for you. Yeah. Yes mistakes. Yes. All Right Christine. Thank you for being on with us as always Thank you to finish as well. The only thing from that microphone that sounds good. Today we're going to get to what you're. You'RE GONNA object to that with a grunt. What are you GONNA object to? Claiming the I I I would say the first couple of segments agree with you I knowledge die sounded terrible. Perhaps I'll. Show. You, know I did I yelled at you. Pointed but then as the as the day wore on the voice came back and since about ten thirty, this morning, it's been relatively flawless. So I'm going to start speaking a half hour before the show moving forward to myself just walking around giving tastes got you've been doing this for twenty years like I mean twenty years and the boys voices is the one thing you got to protect guts. I. Got Explain something to the audience. You've got a great radio voice like an old fashioned. You had one you had a great radio voice and it's no longer in its prime. It's got life experience. I can here in it it's got heaters. It's got regret I can hear all that stuff. It's got sleeping issues. It's got not taking care of its body because it's eating peanut. Peanut EMINEM's an ice cream at at midnight I can hear it. Art Well I'm Gonna I'M GONNA take measures to try to try again fixed I'm GONNA eat ice cream at ten instead of his night Chris what are you laughing at what are you laughing at you? You don't want me to bring this up anymore I'm just imagining Stugatz later on like polio ruler out and like measuring something like, Oh, I got this Dan, I'll take care of it. Yeah. I scream. and. Ends a little bit earlier than normal. Still, not to exercise but I again, I will address this and trying to take it seriously perhaps T-. Okay. So getting to what you guys were laughing about during the break what did you hear from those NBA press conference? Is that? Had you guys laughing I thought you guys were making that up that can't be true that Donovan Mitchell actually said something about we're just happy to get a split. As if he was going back home and getting on a flight like that, that couldn't have been he just went to go to cliche. Yet they did their job. They got one of the first two on the road and yes, Mitchell is acting like they're hopping on a jet going back to Salt Lake City for a big game three. He's walking back to his hotel and then walking to the same court they played games wanted to one just with different stickers at. The notion that this is real or feels like the real NBA playoffs I'm into it, the players are into it, but they are speaking in cliches that make me happy but they also make me. Laugh. Now they do kind of have a point though both teams do get to sleep in their own hotel bed tonight. So that is one thing that they all have going for them. It's the case Dan where everybody gets to sleep in their own bed and nobody gets to sleep in their own bed. Wow. You're so right. That is so true billy. So. What were some of the things they were? Can you explain to me what the specifics were of Donovan Mitchell and what he said you're telling me that he said we've got the split as if like that's not. That's not what happened where he is. He forgetting that there's not travel that he does not know that getting the split in the first two games doesn't really matter if you don't have like does he know what are you guys alleging here? No, you need to get the split, Dan if you're the road team because in home courts back in your favor and I think. Also kind of said like we got we need wanted to, that's all we need to get done I'm pretty sure that they think they need to win one of two road games to get the advantage in the series. I mean Brad Stevens said we held serve. That's all we did. These kinds are going to the same push as why wait a minute? True You have to be a because I'm not listening to any of these press conferences what what? Billy? Seventy sixers are also down. So I don't think that Brett Brown actually said we got one of two because they didn't get one of two I thought you were saying that he was saying we've gotta get one of two that he was saying before the game as if during the pre-game press conference because you love going for useless sound at a Brett Brown, a press conference of Dan. Now, they've got to get four or five they want to advance. Thanks for nothing. Thank you. I I. DO appreciate that it has next to nothing to do with what I'm talking about. But I do think these guys are so wired to Kinda say flitwick and gotta go out of the same way where some of that is coming out me billy Chris, just find it funny that there is no homecourt. They're just courts with different stickers. That's it. Are. We sure that they aren't going with the strategy of where they have hotel room they sleep in. That's really nice when they're home team. When they're road team, they have to sleep at a different hotel room. That's just like the worst possible hotel room you could possibly be maybe that's the case. That's a terrible idea. I don't understand guts. One of the worst things you've said in a long library of awful things that you said like, what are you talking about? Dan Talking about ridiculous premise here, and we're saying that if they want to create some sort of home court advantage in this bubble, they could make the road team sleep in tough scenarios in the bubble safely, which is not as good as when. You know what I think. This is actually a great idea. Know what they should do think when this is done, what they need to do is and we'll do this for next season because this season it seems that we figured it out but the policies to be working. So maybe they'll do it again next year but with improvement. So what they could do next year is when you're GONNA travel on a travel day, just put on like one of those Disney Trans or even the monorail and just have them going around in circles at the region of flake like. A six hour flight across the country you just need to ride around the moderate six hours then. You did the traveling. Six Our All. Right I WANNA explore this part of it a little bit more because I thought you guys were headed down the path of the making the road team like sleep in a cave with a bear or something just to stimulate things. We've that to. All right we'll explore that and more brennaman laughter I. Suppose Manx. Tony One more time. Please tell the people we are going off the air here in a few minutes but tell the people where they can join us after our lunch at one o'clock eastern Heap Pacers where can people find us tell them slowly? Which DOT TV slash Lebatardshow and friends again, that's twitch dot TV slash laboratory fronts. So we will be there stugatz included Fleming Stugatz in his natural environment watching a game. If you WANNA watch a game with US last last few years for the Jimmy V. Foundation Somebody's paid a whole lot of money to watch games with us we're doing this on twitch For no cost totally free virtually self promotion yet all in an effort to promote the Dan Le Batard show with Stugatz podcasts already one of the most popular podcast and the history of sports talk radio. We're doing a lot of things with visit digital push. So this is interaction with the fans that we promise and just to get you back to subscribing and listening daily. Little Must Win for the Pacers today. Dan. You want to go back to Miami down to. I, guess. Yeah, I guess they would. They would be. Stupid. All of it the quality I did think that Stan van. Gundy was interesting. The quality of place to God's I hadn't considered the idea rested guys focusing one hundred percent on basketball that would explain the skill level. I'm seeing in these games where the shootings, crazies God's like guys who are just covering beyond what's reasonable guy I had not taken into account the idea i. Hadn't thought of the idea that flying all over the place over eighty two game season. The guys aren't going to be a sharp that if you put them in a bubble without the kinds of temptations and nightlife that they would normally have, you're absolutely getting a fresher specimen at the height of physical performance science. That's why you're getting what you're getting from Lillard and it seems so clean. Right. Yeah. Offense the offense has been great. The defense has not been. Nearly as good and then you combine that with the fact that these guys you had three months off. So in some cases, you have different rosters you have guys who have been able to rest. You have guys who've been able to practice of again offensively it looks really really good. He's really really good. I disagree with you I don't think the defense is bad. The reason I'm noticing that the offense is so great is because I'm looking at the defense I'm like damn that was good defense to and it doesn't matter because these guys can keep making shots making shots I, don't actually think the defense has been bad. I think the level of play. I'm watching is better than any of I've ever seen. I'm not kidding you when I say playoff basketball in a bubble what I'm seeing on the court looks to me more skilled than anything. I've ever seen while watching basketball and I hadn't considered the idea that fresh legs without any distractions whatsoever that it would make a huge difference in the quality of play. We, need to figure out how scale this. So ever after every playoff game, Dan will give us a rating that game was played at a seven out of ten and his name was played at an eight of ten. So we know after a game level of play that we just witnessed. We do like the idea like the road team right the team does not have home court advantage. There has to be some disadvantage for the road to we're thinking that may be home team sleep in the hotel road teams at the sleep out in some sort of tent city like something like that. You got to make it more difficult for the road team you have to. I mean but like all the accommodations at Disney are pretty good right like what are you doing? You're making a tent city like what? What are you know? No, no Dan. They have a camping ground and Disney we think that the road team could have to stay at Fort Wilderness and they have to camp out and obviously they're on the road. So what happens when you're on the Road Dan, you don't get cooking. So they're going to have to eat a little bit less than some of the food that you get at the nicer home hotels. Now, this kind of goes back to Christmas, original idea where people were moving back and forth. But that's why look is going to be a lot of teams on the move Dan. Each around less and less seems around the move because I don't know if you know each round, we lose some teams. So have the monorails of play, but we're also going to bring some of the trams into play. So if someone were to get into the bubble, they may be confused as to why it is that there's tranches. Kinda doing wheelies figure eights around around the parking lot travel days. That's all we can say. Some of these ideas. I love. Like. After after game, you see for six hours on a tram just de'andre Jordan. Is He in uniform? Do you have him in uniform? Dumb Baba close.

Dan Reese Davis football commissioner Disney Christine Lisi Christine basketball Dan lebatardshow Donovan Mitchell ESPN billy Chris baseball Pacers Tony One Fleming Stugatz Miami reese David Colorado MVP
Lauren Fleshman Is Empowering Women Athletes

The Rich Roll Podcast

2:12:00 hr | 1 year ago

Lauren Fleshman Is Empowering Women Athletes

"Yeah I've always believed that telling. Personal narrative is the better way to help people understand the complexity of something so I got kind of offered myself out there. Even though I new would result in some skewering I ended up getting a call from an old competitor right when it came out. Who chewed me out? I remember taking that call and just being like think. Okay here we go. Why did I even bother telling that story? Is it going to be any good but I do think that it helped contribute to a public conversation public understanding standing. It's just one of many stories that contributes to like the dialogue around this the importance of really fighting for ethical and clean sport of learning. What isn't isn't okay? What we want those does that to look like in the future? You know the past is what it is but I still do believe clean. Sport is possible. It's going to be hard but it needs to be nuanced. Our understanding of the past. I and we rely a lot on whistleblowers too. So no one's going to come out and talk about their experiences if we have this black and white view on everything that's Lauren. Flush flash men and this is the retrial podcast Rich role podcast. What's up people? How you guys doing my name is rich roll? This is my podcast podcast. Grab a seat. Thank you for dropping by really quick piece of housekeeping between now and January thirty first end of this month we are running a limited it at times special discount on our plan. Power meal planner twenty dollars off the annual one hundred dollar fee to avail yourself of this visit meals dot ritual dot com and enter Promo Code Power Twenty Power Twenty at checkout. Okay my guest. Today is the amazing amazing law enforcement. Lauren is one of the greatest middle distance. Runners in American history over the course of her story scholastic career Lauren. Lauren has taken home state championships and then at Stanford University Accumulated Five. NC Two A.. Titles Fifteen all American honors and a spot the hall of fame as a professional lawrence accolades include to USA Championships and five world championship bursts for Team USA but Lawrence Orange career was not without its setbacks. She holds the painful distinction of most likely. Being the best American distance runner never to make an Olympic team. Her competitive career repeatedly impaired by injuries. That had her on crutches at the wrong four year intervals. There's very few interesting reasons behind us which which we will be exploring in full today. And I think it's fair to say that it's these very obstacles and setbacks that have given her such a compelling thing and philosophical perspective on not just running but on human potential on transformation and perhaps most poignantly advancing the power and prominence of women in Sports got a bunch more. I want to say about Lauren. But before we hit the ground running time it is. It's time to hear from the awesome. MM sponsors who make this show happen. Starting off with Jaybird. This one is for all the athletes out there wireless headphones are not all all the same and what works for. The average person doesn't always cut it in our worlds. Achieving great audio experience in all conditions requires a level of fit a level of functionality analogy durability that exceeds the norm and this is where Jaybird really sings. Pardon the PUN They designed wireless headphones that perform flawlessly. Mostly all you seek the edges of your ability. There Vista Buds are sweat. Proof waterproof have industry leading battery life. That is endurance Athlete approved. Vista's cutting edge wireless technology also ensures crystal clear sound for music and calls and reliable connection. That pairs very very easily with your phone. Look guys need to know is that I've tried all the ear. Buds out there. And I'm telling you these are the best sport ear buds on the market. No matter how much which I sweat and I sweat a ton they remained snug they remained comfortable and the sound quality and the battery. Life are just top notch. So when you're ready to upgrade upgrade your audio experience with gear that actually is made for what you do go to Jaybird sport dot com. That's JAYBIRD SPORT DOT COM. We're also brought to you today by on running. Or how much do I love my on running shoes. Let me count the ways. They're clean and minimalistic design their lightness. They're extremely cushioned outsold the readability either last disability. There are just so many things that I appreciate about these amazing kicks and for the record. This is the rant that every stranger gets when they ask about my on running owning shoes. When I'm out on the trail and I got to tell you these shoes standout so they are the subject of conversation quite frequently and lucky for us on running has more than just shoes? They have a wide range of apparel to power your full day on and off the trail their stuff is minimal. It's super high quality. Almost like it's been tailored for you on Saville row. You got to experience it for yourself to see what all the hype is about so on is offering my listeners exclusive offer to try the shoes or or the gear for thirty days and put to the test. You're not GonNa get this offer from any other shoe company. I can almost guarantee it that means actually running in on gear before you decide to keep them so head on over to on dash running dot com forward slash ritual. That's o n dash running dot com mm slash rich role to amp up your game with on running and finally were brought to you today by seed. If there's one thing I've learned about the microbiome it grow Biochem. It's that the health of our gut. Flora can impact the rest of our body. In fact our bodies are half human cells and half microbial cells. which is why it's so important to care for your bio and the best place to start is with seed seeds? Daily symbiotic combines twenty four different probiotic strains trains and one dose strains. You're not GonNa Find An yogurt or other fermented foods but rather already naturally occurring in the human body. These trains have been studied to deliver systemic benefits for digestion skin heart and gut immune function. There's no other probiotic with this much. Clearly referenced clinical clinical work behind their formulation so that is pretty cool if this world probiotics and microbes fascinates you. Then I implore you to check out my conversation with seed. Founders are a cats ads in Russia. Durham that's episode. Four forty five. We go deep into that. I think you'll enjoy it. Cedes Glorious probiotics have totally rocked my world. Learn more about the science behind it go to Seed Dot com Ford slash ritual to get twenty percents off your first month of the daily symbiotic. That's S E E D Dot Com slash rich rich role or use the code ritual to get twenty percent off. Okay so Lauren. Fleischmann isn't just an incredible runner. She is the author of the believe training journals of the new book in the works as an entrepreneur. She is the CO founder of picky bars with her husband. Jesse Thomas who you might remember from episode so for Forty Two together they also host the work play love podcast. Chicago should all check out and Laura now retired from professional. Competition is a coach to the elite women runners of wassels little wing team and she is the very definition of an active mom of two kids. But what stands out the most to me and why. I felt so compelled to get her on the show is her advocacy for female equality and advancement in Sport and today. We're GONNA talk mostly about that. We cover a lot of ground we talk about kept Shoghi sub to marathon to the doping scandal swirling around the Nike Oregon Project to how she navigates balancing her busy life and many many interests but more than anything. This is about fairness sport. It's about advancing the role of women in athletics to forge parody. It's about creating an equitable financial ecosystem for NC two A.. And Olympic Olympic athletes balancing impartiality antidiscrimination against equity when it comes to transgender and intersex athletes and perhaps most importantly importantly how we can combat and ultimately overcome the unique pressures and body image issues. So many girls and women face in in competitive sports to foster healthier athletic environments and and ultimately careers on that note and subsequent to our conversation. Lauren wrote a really fantastic op. Ed In the New York Times entitled I changed my body for sport. No girl should I urge all of you guys to read that link that up in the the show notes final thing Lauren and Jesse were nice enough to celebrate this episode offering all of you good people discount on picky bars so right now you you can take thirty percent off your first order at picky bars dot com when you use the code rich role at checkout while you're there be sure to check out there coexist exist campaign which supports awareness recovery from eating disorders this offer purely a gift. I'm not an affiliate. This is not paid out. I don't get anything out of this. It's just good nutrition Russian from good people so without further ado this is me and Lawrence Fleischman delighted to be here with you today Looking forward to this for a very long time so welcome what brought you to Los Angeles. What brought me Los Angeles well Brandi carlile singing Joni Mitchell reason as you. Did it. Live up to the lived up to the hype. Actually there were parts of it that lived up to the hype in unexpected ways Brandy Carlisle was so nervous to perform blue in in front of her idol. Joni Mitchell was there throughout and John was there I had seats behind in. I didn't have the best seats but I was close but uh I could. I had a perfect view of all the people all the famous people sitting in the front couple rows. You've got to see this performance so it was just a trip to see BRANDIES body language from behind most of the time but she was and she was very open about her tension about it. She was like really nervous about this. You know Leah Joni Mitchell's low. Living Legend. I mean she the way Brandy described I think is true. It's like living in the time of Beethoven Rembrandt but in music and and we live at the same time as Joni Mitchell. Probably not for much longer so you have a deep Joni. Mitchell Phantom streak I do. She's her album blow she's she's spectacular and my whole family loves Joni Mitchell and my dad is on introduced me to Joanie and he introduced Jesse to Joni. Tony One Jesse and I started dating on this camp trip and Jesse was super nervous and my dad essentially told Jesse he should start getting into Joni Mitchell Costa ladies like it. He was giving him tips much more crude way than that. But but it's your right. Yeah he has a nice respect for Jody Mitchell. Yeah that's cool well not you. You got on an airplane to come and see the yeah birthday slash. Mother's Day present for my mom Went to a fancy restaurant and just we just had a really kind of out of the ordinary experience for us So it was very special. You grew up around around here. A Dead Santa Clarita and I was just noting on the drive up here. How this area's where I used to go with my dad when he would take me to work with me up at four thirty go down to the sets of Dr Quinn Medicine? Woman had paramount ranch and my sister and I would play around and whatever like Western buildings. Things weren't being used that day for filming and imagine that we were very people see. Here's a prop master right. We'll do that now. He passed for years years ago. He's like he was thirty years. I mean he got started building sets for concerts of all kind of great bands of the you no sixties and seventies in his late teen years and then he went in the army for a few years went to Germany and came back and then he started working for Hollywood in the a union building sets right. Paramount ranch is super cool but it's gone now and burned in the fire. People who are listening my my recognize it from westworld they all the West. The West the Western towns was all done it and that white church is is from Westworld as well. Yeah so so. I think the church is still there but everything else has gone and they haven't rebuilt it yet. Wow what a trip. Yeah that that. That was one of those moments. When I'm driving with my mom and she tells me that you're we're having this nice little memory about a place that was important to you as a kid and then it's like oh by the way it burned down? You're like Oh okay. That's all right. Everything's things burning down around here. Yeah yeah far this past weekend I WanNa track like your whole personal story because it's super interesting stink. But there's so much going on running and track and field right now. It's insane like I can't even keep up with all the crazy news and somebody who's Yes. Yes you're retired but you're very much an insider and you've been outspoken and have lots of opinions on all of these things so I'm kind of excited to hear your take on all the goings on great. I better take a few sips coffee. Let's do I mean we can start with Kashogi one fifty nine. I mean what are you. What are you just this past weekend? Yeah I didn't live stream it I don't even remember what I was doing. Think work offense stuff but certainly followed it and I mean some easing it. It was amazing to see it done Even in the context of performance enhancing shoot technology. That maybe shouldn't be legal for performance Mansour pacing and stuff. It's still magical to see somebody going for it and kept Shoghi such a lovable character like he seems like such a beautiful foregone is and he's he really feels deeply and has a way of expressing himself. It feels pure to me and I think without kip. Shoghi being the hero of that story this. I don't think it would work. I don't think it would hold much interest. Yeah I think it was Lindsey Krause who tweeted something like the best part was seeing him accelerate arrate across the finish line and then speed up to hug his wife. Yes you that finish line. Clip was the only clip. I really saw me too and it was so cool bliss on his face you know and it's also really shows you how much rental experience by little effort. He looked like he was feeling at the end. I mean who knows I mean he looked precious. Daisy and I think it's kind of canvassing. The Internet reaction to this whole thing has been interesting. I think that you can. You can appreciate the beauty and orchestration. That went into doing something that had never been done before. Well also oh understanding that there's artifice involved in these crazy shoes. We don't even know what's inside this shoe and and all the pacing and all the mackin nations that that went into making it possible like we can entertain both of those. I mean. It's a magic show. It just reminds me of the big public displays of the famous musicians in Making the statue of Liberty Liberty disappear or any of these things the think tanks in the middle of plazas and they're all orchestrated for entertainment entertainment. If you know what you're getting into cool and and I think it'll be interesting to see how long it takes before we see one fifty nine in a real race like I would imagine that. The impact of that display will accelerate that happening because it changes people's perspective and belief about what's possible absolutely not you see that across all industries you have to see it to be and unless you kept Shoghi but for most of us it helps to have it to see it done and you know there are the valid criticisms to one of the things that sits with me as a woman. There's so often This kind of really important milestone that starts with men you know the sub to marathon sub four mile and the beginning of rallying around these bears is always on the men's side and then we sort of search for the female equivalent kind of after the fact like Oh equality. What could we do? You hear that is equally exciting transcendent culturally To get people pumped on the women's side and so it's it's always a little bit tough on the just thinking about that and it's I don't want to use it to take away from what kept Shoghi did because absolutely it's amazing. It is enlightening to just see that when you have the biggest sports brand in the world deciding where they're going to put their marketing dollars It's mostly men in those rooms and they're mostly interested in the men's performances says and so that the ideas that naturally sprang up around men's barriers. And that's just another example of that so there's just another reason to get more women and more of those rooms. Yeah well we did. You'd see the eclipsing of Paul Rod Record this weekend as well your guy also on on crazy mysterious shoe. Yeah yeah she is nonetheless world record performance. Yeah that one's hard for me to get excited about. I think you know she works with an agent who's been associated associated with so many marathoners have tested positive for drugs. And you know just like the unfortunate thing is this association if you SOCI- It yourself with these people blue have so many ties to drugs and doping and it's really difficult to appreciate it right now fully suspend belief which which brings us to the next biggest in writing which is the Salazar doping scandal. Yeah and and I didn't know until I started digging into you. You little bit deeper over the past couple of days was your own little crime semi brush with Salazar back in two thousand fifteen or something like that. I I five two thousand and five thousand five right I read I read David Epstein Propublica on that at the time so can you ask the ancient history but it's now it seems really Kinda fresh and relevant. Yeah definitely I think it's interesting because with all the conversations around whistle blowers. I don't know I don't know if I classify I don't think I do but it's just one of those. I don't really know where my story fits in. Yeah I mean it was a little bit of an alarm sounding. Yeah a harbinger of what was to come. And I knew that there was an investigation under way and knew they were obviously digging digging around and Alberto's methods And I've been thinking a lot about that time. 'cause wouldn't that interview with PROPUBLICA started resurfacing when Alberto Salazar thing came out and starting my name beckoned. I was feeling nauseous because doing that. Interview is really challenging. It was a tough decision for me to do. Not because because I feel that I cheated or deserve our was at risk of how it's it's hard explain. Why was I guess it was just admitting to the mindset of an athlete trying to be the best in how you are then vulnerable to the adults in your life and their Input on what it's GonNa take to be the best and that I took a small step in the direction and probably would have taken many more. If I had been in Nike Oregon Project Project I mean I I was like one of the most promising athletes in history coming out of Stanford and my event and a lot of people thought I had the kind of the complete package to put help put distance running back on the map. I mean it's on the map now but it wasn't when I was coming out of college. Dina casters medal in marathon marathon and mebs and but outside of those two little moments. We'd had nothing for so long. And and that was my whole goal was to do that. And so I came out of Stanford and there was this sort of emerging Philosophy that was in reaction to all blood doping so blood every every movement sort of a reaction to something else so blood-doping was becoming this big thing And people reading about it and then the the flip side of that was how can we beat the cheaters without crossing the line. Like how can we outsmart the cheaters using all the legal tools tools at our disposal and this is the era of Paula Radcliffe. This is the era of Alberto sells our founding Nike Oregon Project. And I really think that the intentions at the time were I mean he's set it straight up in interviews before where to use every single method on just on this side of legal to be competitive with the rest of the world and to put us on top of the stage and that wasn't controversial at the time that was kind of like a good idea. Way To use what we've got which is science and technology and smarts right and now when we look at it with this fifteen year lens looking back on all this concept of marginal gains and going into grey areas is very much in line with cheating. We're like Oh that was. The intent was to get an unfair advantage. There for you know it was against the spirit the sport and essentially. That's where we are now. That's where I sit now with how I feel about it. I really feel that you shouldn't do any of those things but yeah at the time it wasn't I don't think it was very clear and and so I remember being in that position of should I should I sleep in an altitude tent I do have asthma and have a prescription for an inhaler. Should I take the strongest strongest dose possible to me year round. Even if I only need it seasonally you know like these kind of questions of like what where is the line and where should it be an it does get gray and murky. I mean there's there's on the one hand there's things like cryotherapy and warm up techniques and I think you know sleeping in an altitude ten is kind of a standard practice. A lot of people like I don't think people look at that as being super controversial but that seems qualitatively Wli different than. Hey you have a little bit of asthma. But let's trumpet up and track it the massive dose and use it year round two. Just just one your symptoms flora exactly and so in seeking guidance for miasma in a Alberto was the person who knew a doctor in Portland who had experienced testing athletes and. I believe this doctor was a doctor. I don't think the doctor has been. It's not like the doctor Brown case with thyroid. This thousand doctor has is not been implicated in anything but and all those medications are now legal anyway but at the time they were on the restricted list. You had to have a therapeutic use exemption for certain kinds of inhalers and yeah it was just a you know if you went to your neighborhood allergist they would just have you breathing tube and you don't have asthma really really though I I do when I run in cold weather or the five K.. But they couldn't simulate those conditions and so you couldn't test appropriately an ex- oh exercise induced asthma just anywhere so anyway. That was kind of how I ended up getting connected with. Alberto was a top Nike Athlete. I lived in Oregon or not. I live at the time. Maybe I live in California. Anyway I was going to be living in Oregon But I had obviously connections to Nike Headquarters and he was starting this thing. And they're out there and it was like I. I was like one step removed removed so I had access to some of it if I wanted it. But then I had Villanova's coach who really protected me. I mean he when I look back. I'm so glad I was under his guidance at the time is at an altitude tensor legal. But it's what an altitude tent lead to at that time. So if you were sleeping altitude ten all the time and you were trying to maintain this crazy level of training. It was really common to get run down because you weren't sleeping with altitudes said well once you get run down now suddenly you can go to the doctor that tests thyroid and show that your thyroid is suppressed. Right because because you're suddenly all your other. Values are getting negatively impacted. So I I always kind of started to or I don't always I now see the altitude tent through Nike Oregon Working Project as a kind of a gateway to other things. And it did it facilitated my exhaustion really quickly and that led to a conversation with Finland Manana about thyroid. Because I had heard about other athletes and Gaylon Robin whoever having thyroid problem and I was like maybe I have a thyroid problem. Maybe you do but maybe maybe you know you're just tired because you're training really hard and you're not sleeping properly. You're sleeping in the tent. And maybe you need to take responsibility for the limits of your body are and I was. I remember feeling really embarrassed. I remember thinking like if I go to this doctor that these guys are saying. I'll probably get whatever they're getting you know. Yeah and I think what's interesting about this experience that you had is that I mean. Ultimately you had an ethical compunction that it allowed you to say like. This doesn't feel right to me like there's there's like what's legally okay and then there's you know our internal kind of barometer around ethics and and you know that flared up for you and you were like I'm stepping away from this. This doesn't feel right to me but I think it speaks to how these things happen like we tend to you. You know from our armchairs cast aspersion judgment on these athletes. That make the wrong choice. But we don't appreciate the nuance of what leads up to it because it is a very gradual. Slow thing where it's one thing and then the next thing and then before you know it you've crossed that line but that line seems imperceptible. uh-huh yeah and and I and that's why in the end. I decided to speak with David Steen. Because I felt that the conversations I was hearing around the topics of Dr Brown and the thyroid stuff the tents or the or Alberto's group all this stuff I just felt like turning so black and white like any athlete that could do anything is just evil and any you know and I was like so much more complex. It is much more complex than that and I've always believed that telling personal narrative Vizcaino. The is the better way to help. People understand the complexity of something kind of offered myself out there. Even though I knew it would result in some skewering I ended up getting a call from an old competitor right when it came out. Who shoot me out? who was just like? She took it as you cheated and listen this and like as a she I think she took it as I had all these other things. I must not have admitted really. There was nothing else to the story but I remember taking he matt call and just being like okay here we go like. Why did I even bother telling the story? Is it going to be any good but I do think that it helped contribute to a conversation in that a public conversation public understanding. It's just one of many stories that contributes to like the dialogue around this the importance of really fighting for ethical in clean. Lean sport of learning. What isn't isn't okay? What we want those that to look like in the future you know the past is what it is but I still do believe clean? Sport is possible. It's GonNa be hard but it needs to be nuanced our understanding of the past and Yeah we rely a lot on whistle blowers to so no one's going to come out and talk about their experiences if we we have this black and white view on everything right and it's amazing that that you shared what you shared way back in two thousand and five and here we are in two thousand nineteen when this is finally like getting adjudicate in between we have Steve Magnusson. When when did Steve Magnus kind of come out and publicly talk about that L.? Carnitine thing that went I I think it was actually so it. Has this the story. I told us from two thousand five but it was probably between two thousand fifteen and seventeen that I did the That was similar to Steve so it was kind of around. We were all starting to tell our stories because the rise of Nike Oregon Project in these performances. That seemed unbelievable. And you know this the stories that were kind of being circulated within distance running what was going on there plus some of our personal experiences says and I heard some of the things about l carnitine. That's not hard for me to believe or that. All these athletes are being tested for being treated for thyroid. Conditions in the medication helps them lose weight before race season. I'm like that's not hard to believe. Because of my experience with asthma and my conversations with Alberto I feel felt like understood the mindset and so I just I. I was concerned that as the biggest sports brand influential sports brand putting their marketing dollars behind this group in these performances. That had an ethos that was really dangerous to clean sport. That's not okay you know. And it goes all the way to the top does he. Oh being aware of the testosterone cream all of that and yeah the email from cells Arte Lance Armstrong. There's a lot of stuff that you know people all the way to the top were privy to. Yeah they wear. It's it's one of those things around innovation to allow. No you have thought about it from that perspective. But I think that what Alberto auto wanted to do with an was some sort of parallel to what the Innovationlab looks like for footwear. Right it was. Let's innovate our approach. Approach to training and coaching just the way we innovate at the fastest spike will look outside. The box will put a carbon plate in whatever ever you do and I think to me. That explains why there was so much conversation with Mark Parker because it it's to me that does a line between technological innovation and other kind of less acceptable form needle forward. got kind of Enmeshed yeah I think I mean it's not dissimilar from the you know the tech suits swimming like it's getting weird not just ask steroids and EPO. Like now we're entering into gene therapy and all kinds of craziness where it's going to become even you know it's going to become a hundredfold hurtful more difficult to try to figure out what's fair and what's not. Yeah I'm surprised. No one stuck invented shaving your head and swimming and then covering like putting some sort of silicone lacono directly onto your scalp like. Why hasn't that's going to be the most caps are Kinda like that? Yeah but we. We've been shaving more time off. It was probably correctly adhered to your skin. Right like there's some kind of Lotion for or something like that. I don't know I did want to bring up though before we get off doping conversation or move it in a different direction. Is that Nike. I it it is shocking to me and I don't know what you think that a company me like Nike. That spends so much time on branding initiatives that have to do with the purity of the sport. You know they That I know of they have never. You're taking a stand on doping like they've never launched a brand campaign about clean sport and only using the body of got am. Am I wrong on that. Well it's it is it would be completely on brand for them if you're looking at their brand deck but when you look at their their marketing assets you know you've got the NFL and they'll be you know they would put themselves in a position to look like the biggest hypocrites ever because then they would would have to take a stand. If something happens than everyone's GonNa pull up that out campaign. Well yeah and it's already happening. I mean if you just look at like if they really wanted to stand and for clean sport they could completely change everything in a year did they did do wasn't that Lance Armstrong. At what am I on on my bike. That was a Nike Nike on. That was a Nike Ad. Which is ironic? So maybe you know the like reflecting back on that it's like yeah. Maybe we should should do that like we're still talking about that. That's true but like for example. If they decided that a major brand value for them was going to be clean sport they could it influence stricter rules in major league baseball and NFL around doping offenses rather than whatever they do. Couple game suspension. Whatever it is in some of these cases they they could influence influence everything they could they can move mountains with the amount of money in marketing dollars and the level of assets like top athletes in every sport? I just wonder what could they do if they set their mind to it. Gatsby awkward and uncomfortable. At first I mean they could create like a Manhattan project around it with the resources that they have but clearly. It's not part of their business now and I think that part of that is perhaps it's a function of the fact that the way we perceive doping in sports like track and field and swimming and cycling are different from what it looks like in The NFL and the NBA and Major League Baseball. Like it's almost like those sports. Get a pass like we don't really every once in a while. There's a Rod Kinda on a situation but I can't imagine what's actually going on there that just gets unnoticed so there is a disparity in the way that we think about doping in sports in those various disciplines. There is and they're the kind of I. Guess that's what I mean by. They're sort of the common player in all of them. So if you were GONNA make sweeping change culturally who else could do it. They certainly only have the marketing muscle to be able to create impact in anything that they decided to focus. You know which kind of opens up a new discussion right like how the decisions the way that. They've decided to do that. And one of the other things. That's a big it kind of deal. And the running world in recent memory is the way that that Nike has dealt with maternity leave with their pregnant female. Don't athletes and it was a big story that like again back to Lindsey Krause like. She's like incredible breaking all these stories. She's also an amazing runner. Yeah she ready okay for New York right now like I just love reading everything that she does and she broke this story really and so this is another thing that you've had a few things to say about. So Ah just explain this situation for people that are listening. You're unfamiliar. Yeah well so with being your professional woman runner You kind of view Your Motherhood Plan your parenting plan based on your job. I think that's probably true. One mm-hmm well beyond sport right but the way contracts were set up. There was no mention of the word pregnancy specifically but it was well known that pregnancy was treated treated as a injury. And I don't know about this across all brands but I know that what right right then. Pregnancy of injury. Yeah Yeah we're just on the wrong path totally miyoko. Generally athletes would have some sort of a clause around. If you don't compete within this many days I mean that could be as short as eight weeks up to Six months If you don't compete within that number of days then you could get a contract reduction of fifty percent or thirty five percent or you could be dropped or if you lose your world ranking or you're a national ranking that could be written into your contract if you lose that or drops below a certain amount you would lose significant amount of peso as as a younger woman looking at my contract it. It didn't look like babies fit in there anywhere and most of the conversations that I have with my peers involved. If I want to have kids it's going to be when I retire because you know you're going to have to move on and that's just always what I thought I thought I thought I'd raise for about eight years and then start a family and that'd be and so it's just it's so push you into such a non creative space and you learn you lose news all this great talent right when they're entering their prime So what happened was Alesia. Montenegro helped helped bring the story forward of what happened to her. With Lindsey Krause in that story broke with new six time Olympic. Yeah I mean she's succeeded getting eleven time on world champion. Six Time Nautilus. She's won six medals but she's getting them all ten years after the fact right from like doping right back to the doping. Let's kind of those. Those wrongs are being righted. The best they can so I think she just got a medal at Doa World Championships from two thousand eleven or something. We went to the same high school. At least you and I are really friends. I wasn't bridesmaid in her wedding. I mean we're tight and so I couldn't think of a better face for that movement then Alesia and just what she she went through but yeah because she's the one that in the eight hundred. Yeah at the Olympic trials and had like a big emotional display Understandable but but yeah it was. That was horrible and heartbreaking So that's kind of what happened. She did this beautiful video piece. Plus op Ed ed with Lindsey Krause about her experiences of essentially being let go Having her contracts threatened With a six even and then really bring into the forefront of people's attention like why should this be so especially in the wake of Nike having just produced this ad about Like women can do anything they can dream of and featuring all these MOMS in the ads and all this stuff so it wouldn't be such a big deal of course Serena this huge story and so their marketing women mothers with this lie essentially like mother athletes. Doing these incredible things with the support of Nike in these very dramatic tear jerking videos. And then here's the reality of what they do to their female athletes behind closed doors with their contracts tracks with their pay Carry Out your story was very compelling because she was suspended didn't pay for a year when she was pregnant with coal but they required her to do all of these appearances. I can't remember the number eleven or sixteen appearances she was on the cover of runner's world. She actually became more famous than ever that year. She wasn't getting getting paid at all but she was working for them and she was not allowed to seek payment from anyone else. Any competitor was exclusively. Yeah so like. I don't even think that's legal that you could basically prevents someone to work for free. I've heard of this before right. Well there's so many interesting facets to this I mean when I I it kind of casually came across the story my first instinct was well. This must be antiquated boilerplate language that was inserted in these contracts forever ago and nobody bothered to really kind of update it but I was resistant. A reluctant to confer malevolence like I just thought well this is just you know this is outdated. And they're just late to fixing this but it sounds like there's Ben women trying to challenge us all along and and it's not just Nike Nike's at the forefront of this but there are other brands that are doing well and they've been like no this is this is the line that we're dry and sand and and I think it's it's speaks to a bigger issue. WHOA which you have like? You're an interesting figure in this in what I want to say. which is this whole Industry Industries built upon this paradigm of Athletic Performance? Like your value is directly. Wed Two podiums appearances what races going to be on. And what podiums are you gonNA stand up. We're in a very different world now. And you're like the first generation of people and a leading voice voice in this movement. which is that these things need not be so directly coupled like you have a voice and point of view and fan base and you you know legions of very loyal people that care very much what you have to say in my opinion that transcends whatever podium like that's way more powerful all for brand then Oh? You'RE GONNA get a silver or bronze at some meet in Doha or whatever that the general public doesn't even really care about. Yeah but this is the legacy of that right. And I feel like we're in this middle ground now where these brands haven't really cottoned onto the fact that the world let's change absolutely and I'm always uncomfortable with calling myself a pioneer in something with this because you started G.. Blogger her. Yeah and when we started having these tools available to us I decided 'cause I was sort of disillusioned Uson at with my first six years as a professional athlete. I thought that if I just became a national champion they would use me in marketing and advertising ising and I and we could help. I could be a person that helped bring the sport to a greater audience and you know and I won a national championship and nothing happened happened. I did a great job with interviews. It didn't matter we couldn't seem to get anything outside of our little circle of running media and and I was like well the when social media and blogging came to my attention. I'm like you can write your own story. You don't have to wait around for non endemic media to come knocking on on your door and decide your stories worthwhile. You make your story worthwhile. You tell your own story and the readers will find you immune it was so empowering and so I I did. I started doing that in two thousand nine and and so by the time. Two Thousand Twelve camera in my contract with Nike I. This was my second conversation with the CEO. Mark Parker but in this one I came into his office essentially to say. Hey I want to have a baby this model that we have that you just described so well rich of antiquated. Why are we still basing our contracts on this? I have been blogging. I have been using social media. I have an audience. I have a story. That's much richer. Then it's not dependent on being on the podium but I'm trying to re signed my contract with Nike and they have devalued me at Twenty fifteen twenty percent of what I was paid before but I'm more valuable than I've ever been and this is crazy like basically telling him that the person he had charge of sports marketing contracts was totally outdated. And they're going to be missed opportunities especially with women because when at that moment I wanted to have a child and was thinking this is actually a story see that applies and is valuable to a lot of women and you look at WHO's who's signing up for road races sixty five percent women. That's their customer their audience. What what was Parker's response was like pretty lukewarm? You know it was. It was shocking to me. I know it was a world record holder in the five K.. At one point I mean what is what is the annual revenue of Nike numbers. That are did. It's it's numbers. You can't even wrap your head around and we're talking about you know just minute dollars. Allocate towards this thing where if they got out in front of it with the pregnancy stuff or with people like yourself identifying like hey moron has voice like. There's something really interesting going on here. Let's put put a little marketing muscle and a few dollars behind this and the amount of goodwill that they could engender with their customer base. Yes would have the Roi on that is insane so it just seems completely myopic to me it is it is crazy and I do think that there was. There's an element of marker not wanting to step on the toes of somebody that is in charge of a department. Who's been there for twenty five years or whatever right I'm sure people don't Wanna get up someone's business unless they really really want to go to bat for something? Because I felt like the conversation we were eyeball to eyeball in his office. One where he was hearing me but I also didn't leave feeling like he was going to do anything about it That was really discouraging and it was the first time I went into mark. Parker's office was in two thousand six right after I'd one my us championship. And I had tried to work with the Global Sports Marketing Director. They're trying to talk about how. Why are the? Why is the Nike Women's catalog completely full of models? But you're using your top male athletes to model the clothes close for your sportswear company. Meyer models modeling women's stuff and athletes modeling and he was like that's not my department. That's brand whatever essentially like this isn't what I do. I sign athletes and they win medals. That's what I do. And so I ended up emailing marker two in the morning by guessing email address the feast on the formula of everyone's email address and emailed me back and it was Jesse. Who told me to do that? My husband because he was so sick of watching me stew over it. He's like just email them like all right. I'll try and he did reply. And in that particular instance. When that first time I went into his office I was so nervous? And but I was heard and changes. Were made all right. He got a hold of his head of brand. You know things happened things changed and and I felt it was really. It was probably the first time that I remember getting over the anxiety around using my voice using it and having something big happen And so yeah so it was just so different from the second time when I came in. And there's everybody's got their line and MOMS didn't make it motherhood didn't make it at that time so I was really. I was really relieved when that story broke with Elise Young. Lindsey Krause to see that if I couldn't be the person that made a difference France somebody else could make difference the videos incredible. Yeah and she does that race while she's pregnant. Yeah in the video we should say like like. We focused a lot on Nike. Because you were with Nike and your Nike is obviously the biggest target but this is like an industry. Yeah issue you could tell tell it was industry wide because in the wake of the AD companies were coming out one after the other with revised language. Yeah and burn was one of the early ones noon you know was all the reason I went to was all signed me pregnant. I don't know if that has ever happened. Actually if a brand signed a professional athlete while openly pregnant with them have your partner in that company. Yeah that'd be cool. Yeah it's very cool. Well I feel like things are changing. But they're not changing quickly enough. That's always the case. I guess we're in an era now where we're celebrating reading like the strength of women athletes in a way that we haven't before and And we are seeing this incredible resurgence in in American distance. Running women which is kind of cool and credible with there's so many things that still need fixing. Yeah there are. There are as a retired professional athlete. Athlete I'm still really involved in the community. I try to keep my self engaged on mostly issues of gender equality racial equality Ability anything like that any progress that can be made and I just try to make sure that up to date the best that I can. And helping disseminate emanate information to the audience. The Best I can in a very honest and authentic way. You know like you don't you don't you. You're not afraid to share your. That's just what is so awesome. People can follow the back to the murkiness for a minute. The other big thing. That's going on right now especially as we go. The Olympic Year is is the role of intersex athletes in female sports. Which you've spoken about pretty frequently. So where are we at right now in terms of what's legal and what's not and that whole confusing landscape. Yeah well well. I don't actually know every I mean it's new stuff's coming out to be changing along in the world championships ships. CASTER SEMENYA wasn't competing in the women's aid in the ruling around essentially around her but athletes that share a similar malar biology of being it's DISD differences in sexual development INTERSEX is another way of putting it but differences of sexual development. mm-hmm is kind of like the broader terminology so yeah around athletes that are born with differences in that way and so you know it seems like it's it's being fought art in court. It's switching directions all the time. She won an appeal and then there came back down. And I don't know I feel like I've spoken about added a lot but I actually haven't taken a strong stance because I feel like I still need more information. It's so complicated. I one hundred percent feel that every human being should have the benefits of sport in their life. If they want him I mean the benefits of sport are too great. Yeah I don't want to put a wall between someone and and sports just because of differences of sexual development or differences of gender identity or anything And so I'm really uncomfortable. Bowl with any waller barrier put up for someone based on that but participation is one thing being prof being a professional at something is another thing and so I don't know I know what it feels like to compete against the best in the world and compete against against someone who I feel has an unfair advantage. If you have a difference of sexual development that has led you to go through male pattern puberty from act testes that are functional. And you you can actually use the engines like because you could have internal testes but not not be able to be insensitive to the Andrew Johns which means you don't get the external changes in your body but if you are sensitive to the fans and you do undergo male pattern a traditionally male pattern of puberty you. You have a different advantage you just do. And so but then what do you do with that information. Do you just say that's just the way it is. Maybe I don't know yet the more the more that I've read up on this the more confused I get. Yeah and the more uncertain written I am about my kind of knee-jerk reaction. Yeah because on the one hand you look at castor and this is not to be clear. We're not talking about transgender gender athletes. We're talking about people that are born a certain way so I think casters medical records are sealed so we don't know for sure but everyone is fairly certain in suspecting that she's X. Y.. Right that she has that she she certainly exudes these intersex qualities. Should she be punished for that. Because that's the way that she was born and certainly not her fault now. It's certainly the same way that Michael Phelps has gigantic feed. Whatever it's like this is this is what sport is so? We can't relegate her to the sidelines it's too no fault. I mean the only difference is that sport. It is divided into two categories one female and it's not like it's divided by foot size. You know I know it's so there was. There was a ruling that that if you reduce the person's testosterone levels than you create create a more equitable field of play but then was not overruled. Like I haven't been keeping track. Oh I think that I think that what my understanding was that that ruling is was put back in place for the World Championships Because I don't know why else caster sure wouldn't have been able to compete. But but then you know there's I forget her name Dr Christina cars or something she. She's written a book on testosterone really downplaying testosterone as this critical variable. that it is the one. Yeah exactly exactly. We can't put everything into that and like you said some people. The amount of testosterone doesn't necessarily indicate the level the impact that it's having in that varies from Physique du Physique does and so it's but as someone who studied human biology at Stanford. Yeah there you go. Hey It's there is a difference in puberty of what happens with testosterone and a combination of other hormones Taus effect on the physique of the body so and and the size of the lungs and all these other things. So it's like I don't know the person in me that sort of tries to pull my competitive side out. That's like okay. Pretend you're never an elite athlete. Pretend you're just a person who believes in human rights and that's the most important thing that version of me wants to say a person should just be able to compete however they want to compete at all types of women even if that's complicated implicated but then that would include people who identify as female who were born male as well. I mean I. I raced in a half marathon in Eugene and there was does A person who was transgender female who was competing and I was passing her and I remember thinking I wonder the competitive athlete music. I wonder which category this person's entered and I wonder if I just past someone in trying to move up through the women. Women ranks not as a professional anymore. But just because I'm competitive and then I was like why does it matter at this level that I'm at now I'm not trying to it. I'm not fighting over limited resources limited metals. It doesn't matter what category this person's in I'm just stoked out here having an amazing time in sport but I had that wrestling inside still you know so. It's interesting interesting being on the non elite athletes side. Now kind of seeing where you sit with it I don't know well I think when you're you know post retirement. It's not a zero sum game anymore. But when you are competing at the highest level it is it is a function of limited resources. There's only only one gold medal. There's only so many spots that that you know that that comprise that Olympic team and everybody's vying for that and so these things become very acute they do and it sort of makes me think one solution which nobody's proposing is to change some of that zero sum culture of the sport. Why does it have to be that? Only metals are the one. The only people who in medals can actually make a living. Why is it? The athletes go to the Olympics in. Don't get paid at all for going there. Well the IOC makes billions of dollars like if you you changed it where anyone who made the team is going to make money. And they're going to be successful. which is a lot of road races work? You get an appearance fee that so big. It doesn't doesn't actually matter that much if you win price so if you're just get paid for being a professional then you're tension around someone who was born with different internal genitalia than you being in the same race as you is not such a big deal really right because you're still going to be able to pay your bills to pay your bills. Yeah and so. It's just like anything else so you. You deprive people to the point where they're at each other instead of trying to beat you the person who makes the system. Yeah and I think it's exacerbated asserted in sports like track and field and swimming where there are a couple of few at the very top who are doing very well and then there's all the journeyman people who are incredible label athletes and are literally scraping by just to make a living. I was talking to a friend of mine just the other day. Multiple gold medalist and swimming. WHO's who's going forward again and it's like is this? This person can't get sponsors. They're trying to figure out how they're going to make you know. Just basically is basically like feed themselves to get to the Olympic Games celebrated out. Yeah I was thinking this is insane the case he's totally insane. And then we have Gavin newsom. WHO's trying to initiate these changes in the institute to allow amateur athletes to I think these things are you know overdue? They are way overdue. It's insane that we have that. The Olympic sports motto model depends on Free Labor on continually like really Surfacing group or not resurfacing regenerative group. Right it's always new people. There's never going to be a shortage of talent. They're going to keep coming up and and they'll do it for free. I mean that's that's the model of this Olympics. Like its pro tour. Imagine imagine if if basketball or for football is like that where they're like. Oh no you just you just work for free all year every year. If you win the Super Bowl you'll get some money Good luck making it to the the super bowl without any money and it's getting even more complicated now with social media because people have realized. Young athletes have realized that that You know they are hate this word. But they're quote unquote brands and they develop audiences young through their various channels. And when they're in college should they be allowed to make money on their instagram account. Or not like is that a violation of NC two A.. Rules like what does it mean to be an amateur athlete anymore. Should that just go the way of the Dodo. Altogether allow people just make a living however they choose to I think so absolutely You know I'm I'm not a against some sort of go ahead and make your living and pay some sort of a tax on that. That subsidizes All varsity sports for example. Like if you're going to be making money like yes. The athletes are bringing in revenue for football and basketball to college level but also these other athletes that are building their brands. They rely on that system to have regular competitions for them to keep their brand up. And I think that there's this tension that all these these smaller sports will disappear if we start letting tops athletes get paid in the end it cuts into the NC double A.'s revenue and. They won't be able all these other. Sports will get cut all the you know. Whatever grandkids figure out a way where it's being shared both ways in the same way that a college if they're selling a Jersey earthy with the name of a student athlete on the back of it? It's insane to me that the athlete doesn't get to participate if there's an athlete who's got like millions of instagram followers in his monetize. That then maybe some of that goes to the university word of the Athletic Department or something at school or something something like that. I mean. I think that's reasonable but it seems just totally dumb to me that you shouldn't be able to make money on your instagram account as an athlete. But your roommate who's not an athlete. Post pictures yeah. Yeah you know what I mean like Bobbi Brown makeup here we go and they're getting paid and you're like this is so dumb is it is. But it's amazing that it takes a long for these things to catch up. Yeah we have to have endless debate and dialogue and then ten years goes by on a generation of athletes who could have navigated their careers in a more functional healthy way or sort of dispensed with yeah man van solve this problem fair Labor practices. I mean it just makes me think this is just one anytime. I talk about sports whether it's with pregnancy or labor practices. Sports is the is one of the things that people love to talk about. But it's just one of many many many many many industries where unfair labor practices exist where discriminate against pregnancy pregnant women or nursing. Women exists. You know it's it's endemic but I okay talking about sports is that if it's on everybody's mind and we can make changes in sports. It you know yes. This is a privileged group that can kind of make changes I sometimes but if we can do that. And then that doesn't that's not a conversation ender but a conversation starter. And if athletes who make these victories than go to bat for everybody else Then I'm cool with it. I'm not cool with just stopping at sports. Though I feel like that is problematic. Yeah well it seems like that's what you guys are doing. It was L.. Yeah so talk a little bit about that and what Sally has created with this company. It's pretty cool. He got to talk to Sally. She is way cooler than me but Gallo or twitter but fodder for a long time yeah. She's amazing she's kind of an unlikely hero smoker and you hear some some common common background stuff. I think a little bit but Sports saved her life and and she had this Mixture of a passion for design and creativity and then this passion for running because running saved her life and so she was always really the combination nation of those two things and I was really attracted to Wassall because they were speaking to the woman. Athlete only Whereas when I was at Nike I remember we made this groundbreaking campaign called objectify me and it was about making women's specific shoe that kind of led the industry making the first women's specific shoe but even then as proud as I am that campaign campaign the entire thing is in reference to men? Men are still in the campaign. Automate existence is in reference to men campaign was a reaction to your conversation with Parker was in but I didn't even think about that until later when I joined was El. It's only women only women's stuff. It's only women in the office. None of our stories are in reference to male athletes. Were not like the female version of the men's this like it's just women runners and and that is a big enough group right and all the diversity within that group So it's it's very refreshing. It's really cool and really kind of grew into myself as a woman through through my relationship with Oiseaux. Obviously I was starting to find a feminist streak to be attracted them but it was really the key conversations. I was trying to have it. Nike around motherhood around around trying to recognize that this new model of marketing had emerged in the audience. Didn't care about performance only cared about the whole person and in particular the whole a woman in my case and the fact that I couldn't get anywhere with that they're meanwhile I have one conversation with Sally Bergson. CEO and founder of Zone. And she's like well. Yeah obviously I don't care if you win anything I don't have to push over up amount and then have it roll onto me every day. She's like if you like pushing the boulder of the mountain everyday great. Tell that story. Well please that'd be great and she's like really though we want you to be you and And we want you to be you shine brightly because when you do that it gives other women the the feeling that they can do that too and not be sort of limited into whatever box it is which for me was performance box in my industry but every woman and person has there box. They're being pushed into all the time about how to define themselves versus being self approved. So yeah my my work with Oiseaux just extremely proud of what we do there The team that we've built the different ways we've kind of made changes in the industry but we're small and so a lot of those things aren't going to be probably noticed on a global stage until much slater but I think that twenty years from now people are talking about big changes in sport behind every one of those big changes with women was all has had an instrumental role whether it was needling Nike or needling the press engaging in conversations that help ship shift public opinion about things and really doing doing in that strong voice that you just described me as having I mean that's the voice sally brings and They encourage their athletes. Bring and that is so different from most companies where they want you to be the superhero. I remember it being a pretty radical thing signed with them. Yeah I mean they Joked at the time that they made as much money in a year. Revenue was the same sizes left gloves sold at Nike. And I mean that's probably was still too small of a number to it'd be honest but we're people telling you this is the wrong move you're going to your destroy your career doing this. I honestly think people just thought uh speaking a foreign language no. No one told me. Don't do that. It was more like what you're doing. Yeah just puzzlement. Like who's a ways. Ellie who is let wasn't there a weird thing where there was some me. Maybe it was trials where the bids had to have like a Nike logo on them. or You couldn't like there was some confusion about like leading sponsors for an event coming into conflict with the brands that the athletes were allied allied with that was found itself in the crosshairs. I just remember reading something about I. Think maybe there's been a few things that have happened but the story that came to mind for me was when they sponsor sponsor their first professional athletes. It was for the two thousand twelve Olympic trials. And they were just trying. They're the small tiny little company. You know two years old or some at the time four years old at the time and they're trying to make their first elite Kit for the US Olympic trials stage and they have to submit it for review and it was like no no. You can't do that no you can't do that no you can't do that no you can't do that and they're like well they're like make it smaller make it less legible and she was like well. Can we. Put this bird pattern on it. No you too many birds. No birds allowed just like and so they ended up with the most blase Jersey ever. And I'm sure Sally wouldn't mind find me saying that because it's true it was just this kind of what was supposed to be an exciting launch of a new player women's focused player onto the national stage at a sport. You're like you're like happy anybody. Hey Buddy news putting money in track and field at this point and the sort of Welcome me received was with just just showed why nobody wants to enter the sport. Yeah it's just like wow but they've persisted mostly because couple of us really want them to. I don't know how much longer they're going to be able to do it. Nan at I track and field needs in their. It's that thing. Where you want to widen the aperture to bring New People in and create interest and yet when you make those moves get shut down? It's the same I think. That's there's there's an aspect of that with the Shoghi fifty nine to where it's like. Yeah we want more people to be interested. I did track and field but it has to be on our terms. It can't be in this other way that actually people are interested totally now. That's for search. Oh Yeah Yeah I know Sally Great Though and the work that we're GONNA do I think over the next few years will be we'll continue and you to push those conversations for you know. We've got an Olympic trials next year. Twenty twenty we're hosting the world championships in Eugene Oregon I world championships for track and field in the US big deal. Let's look forward to well. Let's let's track your story. A little bit grew up. You grew up not too far from here. Yeah Kick US high school state. Champion runner. Sure you're recruited everywhere right but you went to Stanford and Not on a scholarship. Yeah I know questionable life choices. I did the same thing you did. Yeah I wasn't as good as I was walking I. I didn't deserve scholarship. Wow there's a little bit of a late bloomer. In a way I don't know SORTA under the radar. I was fourteenth at the foot locker championships as a junior junior and junior years the most important year for recruiting so. I got a lot of letters from smaller schools medium schools but as far as that top top ten cross country programs in the nation I reached out to most of them. A second at footlocker. My senior year I was right up in there and I want all my state eight titles senior year you know so a lot of the money had been given away at these top cross country schools to people who are stars as Juniors and I. I didn't have the the home. Advantage of growing up in a household college was normal. My my mom and dad didn't go to college out of high school. My mom got her associate's degree the same year. I graduated twit high school. Actually she went back to school for an associate's degree in business and so none of them really new landscape and so I didn't know I was way behind when I was writing these letters to schools. The guy didn't even know what early applications were. I'm not even using the right terminology because I don't even know what it is but So I I wanted to look at The big ones at that time were Arizona Northern Arizona. UCLA which was right down the street Stanford and Colorado. Those are my top five and the ones I wanted to take recruiting trips to and Ucla never wrote me a single letter. That was the weirdest one my high school coach. Dave Delong of Canyon high bless bless him. He called the coach there at the time and was just like what are you doing man. She lives right down the street. She just made her second full locker. Are you not interested it and then in the end. I didn't want to be that close to home. I wanted to have a little bit of an adventure. So he walk on. And then you end up having this incredible credible career. Yeah winning all kinds of institute titles like some crazy number of all Americans like fifteen dollars across cross country and track and feel deal. Yeah and in so doing like from what I gather at the time the men's program was a very congealed like well. They they call it. The machine machine yet still has I think and you were starting to notice. Like why isn't the women's program kind of operating with this same mm-hmm perspective and philosophy and you worked hard to try to cultivate that and create that in your own way I did and it was. It was really difficult Colt. Yeah I really envied the environment of the machine on the men's side but since then now that I'm coach in that I have more perspective on kind kinda how misogyny and sexism works. I have a different view of what was going on there. And it's still goes on today across country might even still be going on there. I don't know but a lot of times. What you have is a men's head coach? It's like ninety something percent of the coaches at that time. Were men noted is now but still really really high and their head. Men's and women's men's coach and they hire an assistant that generally works with the women's team and DOT head coach. Kinda dances in and out of their involvement with the women's team. Also there isn't a separate head head women's coach a lot of times no. We had an assistant women's coach when I was there and that persisted even just talking to Rebecca Mirror. WHO's an athlete? I coached now who graduated there. There was there was often a similar dynamic going on of that head coach of both programs but really the women's team was the second priority and they often trusted a an assistant. oftentimes a woman assistant which is amazing gesture but then then when you really look at how that works. Career wise person is doing crazy amounts of work and making pennies for it and they don't actually actually have full power. They still have to check in with the head coach all the time. And so when you're an athlete interacting with a coach in that way especially at school like Stanford where these athletes through best in the nation. You know top top top recruits. We got we were ranked number one every single year. I was there but we never finished first in. But you had this the feeling that you weren't important in you weren't really getting what you deserved. And so many times you'd ask her assistant coach or something and they'd have to go check with the head. Coach is just really weird. But when I was at Stanford went into Vince Office when I saw this dynamic and I was like. This isn't GonNa work for me. I need you to coach me. You know. And he did. Did he ended up being kind of my direct coach but he really only worked with. I don't even know one. I might have been the only woman he worked with regularly. One of the things you've written about. AH IT speaks to a larger issue which is which is across all sport Men Versus Women in that you have. These young men are coming into there. You know. Full blown testosterone fueled body natural performance drug kind of lends itself to creating Matt Cohesiveness and a on Straw I experienced that as an athlete at Stanford and and conversely what you have with women our bodies that are changing. You're having interesting things that are happening physiologically. There are very different from that. That tend to push women apart from each other that cohesion. Yeah you're right you have. Biology is playing completely different role. You're either going to be if you're lucky Eh. A plateau for a little while but most women experienced some sort of performance dip. And then you. So that's that's massively at play. Then you add in in kind of inherited gender weird shit worse. Socially women are taught to each other's competitors for it limited prizes and I know men have their own version of that but for women. There's a tendency to tear one another down. I think that a lot of that is changing. Or maybe it's just in my role. I don't feel that Ed at all anymore anywhere. I go but I definitely felt that when I was younger you you were careful to make a woman. You're to really trust another woman who was a competitor for something and then you had those team dynamics like I just said of like you. Get less of the attention of the most powerful person you're fighting for that unlimited resource scarcity mindset. Yeah and see if all these different things making it. Difficult to be cohesive unit to kind of expect what you can achieve and so you get this ranking and national ranking based on prepubescent bodies and then half of your team is going. Through a like a pretty significant weight fluctuation in performance fluctuation. That's just natural that can be ridden al and overcome through time but the that's that also is something thing that I I really am passionate about is is treating women's running culture as its own entity to be respected and normalized instead of comparing it to you men. So part of the normal expected trajectory of women athletes is a plateau or a dip. That's normal and doesn't need to be bad. It can be celebrated if if it's if it's part of the expectation And so we have to find ways to build team culture that we need coaches to be educated around that there has to be a a little bit of a broadening of an athlete's value during that period of time when their performance is dipping. He now so there has to be baked into the culture of the team You may need to develop the the pride of being the fifth score on your cross country team when you're used to being the one breaking the tape right and that's a transition that is difficult do do you feel like that's getting noticed and appropriately kind of acknowledged because I feel like the typical scenario and like I'm an old man so I don't know real on now. But but coaches saying you're too heavy you got to lose weight and these transitionary phases just foment Disordered eating habits and body. Just sort of body issues is a big thing of what you're constantly still. The biggest biggest problem is that these women's changes in their bodies are met with exactly the opposite of what they need their met with. If you're a dedicated athlete you'll lose you'll lose this weight and it's like wait a second. What if what your body needs is to actually go through this period of of change and then it will even itself out that if you look at the athletes who had longevity the female athletes as long Jabeen and you look back at their college pictures for? They became pros. They all went through these body changes in weather them. You have a coach. WHO's like his his his his horizon is just NC two A.? Champion yes in four months or whatever you know so. He's not thinking about the five year career plan of totally. Because what's incentivized for the coaches is. Where is this all right? Look at the system. Are they incentivized only based on their podium finishes or could we incentivize them by how many women continue running after college. Maybe you need a different metric of success when you are in charge of a group of women going through this particular phase of life than just make them deliver topnotch performances. And I know that's asking a lot of sounds crazy. But a lot of these coaches jobs aren't as At risk as you'd I think they're in there for a long time And I have seen some changes women Women at ormen coaches getting let go and pushed out for creating negative body. The image culture advocate people. Come up to me all the time Because of a letter I wrote to my younger self through mile split that was all printed. Five hundred copies of of and personally mailed to coaches around the country. Well Yeah I'm not the kind of stuff they do. That's like way different. Non Traditional Marketing dollars spent and Yeah and and it is making a difference. I have coaches in particular. Makes me happy when I have male and female coaches working with high school kids. They're like I give your letter to your younger self to my team every year or whatever it is and then I know that in some way they their perception on body changing body changes has changed. I don't know if I'm influencing influencing the college level of hard to know kind of insular so I love that letter that you read it again this morning linked up in the show now. Let's talk a little bit about what inspired for the Mile Split team asked me if I'd write a letter to my younger self because they are doing a series from professional athletes. And I jumped on it because I had been really immersing. Immersing myself in Eating disorder culture and body image negative body image culture in the toxic effect. It was having on women's teams and win an an individual women and I thought this is an area where I can. I can make a difference because I've been steeped in it so much and trying to learn and understand it And so yeah Dr Melody More. She's a clinical psychologist who specializes in eating disorder. Recovery sheltered lives out around this area She was a big influence on helping me understand the clinical side because I had sort of the performance side Mile inlands on it and I had a good understanding of the challenges baked into the culture of the specific culture of high performance sport. Four and she had the broader Lens of how Disease Works and the The beauty myth. That's that women are facing on the whole so I just tried to pull all that together in this letter to my younger self to in a way that would translate it the the most direct way I could to like the those minds minds. You know so. I don't know I'm I'm proud of it. Seems like it's worked better than I could have hoped but it's still it's still relevant go gets shared and spread around. Yeah years ago a couple of years ago I think that what my dream at the time and kids kids have made this challenging. They've really made a challenging to kind of do all the things that really WanNa do as kids but I I had had this vision of following up that letter to my younger self with proposed changes at the NCW level and the national high school level of kind of like a suggested curriculum for coaches for how to better understand the role. They play in creating Eating disorder culture negative body image Culture Chur and really bringing a gravity to them to understand the role that they play for better or for worse and to help them develop. Some best practices really wanted to do that. And I haven't I went so far. I did the survey likes almost eight hundred participants talking about their experiences with body image culture culture. It just. It's so much work it's just so much that's a worthy investment of your time it would be. It would be but how do you you now. We'll listen you're excelling in so many categories you're incredibly capable human being. I mean like in addition to being like the the elite the alita running your this crazy entrepreneur. You're unbelievable writer like I've written down here like. When is this memoir coming out? I mean I've been the following. You're writing for a very long time and just thought years ago you would have come out with a book in you know like I know you have your journals. They're amazing and all of that but like a book. Look this is you have to do and you know I texted Jesse sounds like Lawrence coming in like. What's not obvious that I can talk? You're about that. I'm not gonNA find on Google and he's like she's a musician. She's right songs and sing on top of everything else. You're looking musician to guitar back. Parents like all the things that you do and the fact that you're at all beating yourself ed because there's something else that you have an ambition around that you don't have time for I mean so yes the human condition it is. I've never had a shortage of ideas. But I'm not the the best at executing them without like a good team or at least a good partner. You know and a lot of the work that I've been able to do in in the last couple of years has been because I've had. The team was all behind me that is essentially cheering me on every step of the way I mean like how can we help. How can we elevate what you're trying to do? And and that's massively encouraging can take something from the idea to action right and I wasn't going to print five hundred letters to my younger self Alf and research all the addresses and of every high school that I can think of and I wasn't going to be able to do that but they could say. Hey this is important to you. This is important to women's running we're GONNA do it And then the same with the believe journal my my former competitor and dear friend row mcgettigan from Ireland because of her. It went from an idea to actually happening. She was married to a graphic designer and she was able to help make this imaginary but come come to life on a computer which could then be printed. It's year right like don't you up to update it. Refresh it and stuff like that. We haven't done a a big overhaul couple years but we're going to do a big overhaul of the content for the next one but the book is the thing I really WanNa do. I WANNA do that. You know when you when you are going crazy on the days. You aren't writing. You know you need to right. It's a it's a very aggravated state car. The Guy He's a big time writer director in Hollywood like big big time and he's got much kids and he's like everyone. Each one of my kids cost me like three movies. That's the reality that no one wants to talk about hustle culture. It's like you can do it all and it's like you're somebody who's doing a lot but you still can't do everything and be present partner and parent and keep all these super important things in chuck. Yeah you're the way I try to think of it now is. There's all these things not being made but I'm making is something that can't be marketed or sold. But I don't even understand yet when it comes to my marriage and my kids right and so that's that's the Lullaby CIGNA myself at night when I'm feeling anxious. Yes and I WANNA right at my computer until two in the morning but that would be a bad moose's eighty gets up at six like you know what you're making something you're making something else there. It's not wasted time but yeah it's tough. It is tough. I really struggle. I struggle with Motherhood for sure. Well your struggles are are well documented in terms of your athletic career as well this is this is your I think Lindsay Lindsay in that beautiful New York Times. That serve Elegy that she wrote to you on your retirement was like you know. Lauren is is the best American distance runner to never make an Olympic team. Seem like every time there was an Olympiad something interfere to prevent you from and realizing that dream and I just wonder like what your perspective is is on all of that now looking back thinking like what could have been what is being an acceptance and and you know moving forward. I mean you have an incredible life so it's not like there's nothing to lament but I would imagine there are still you know you still have this sense of like it was supposed to be this way and another way fair. Sure and I. I often think about how much easier certain things would be if I had the title of Olympia and just one of those years had gone slightly differently. You know The hardest of those years being two thousand eight. That was an alternate for the team up until the last minute. I didn't know if there were a couple of athletes doubling ten K.. Five of K. Five K.. And so I didn't know until last minute if somebody would decide not to come back in the five K.. And so I just stayed on guard and I trained all the way up to that Olympic. So it was like Ghost Ghost Olympian back home. That never was and and I was really sort of in denial about it until the last possible moment I could be called And I always was aware that while the Olympics was an obvious goal society feeds you right. It's the most obvious goal that it wasn't the only thing to make it worth it. I just knew it would make take things easier would open doors so I wanted it wanted. I wanted it out of pride because I because I would have earned it but then Yeah so I think about about that sometimes with like even this book I'm working on. How do I write the book proposal? You're right it is the fastest runner to never make the Olympics tells her story of whatever. But it's just part of my story and I think that when you what I have seen. Is that when you accomplish one of those things that is so easily identified as quote success US Olympic medal. Whatever I think it is? I think it would be harder in some ways to be self approved. You know like I felt like I was sort of forced into finding self approval in my career. Because I didn't get what I wanted. I didn't get that ultimate commit prize. I can't go by the title will be and I don't have people going around telling me. I accomplished everything in the sport that I set out to do. So it's like well I gotta find the peace. They're I gotta find peace with at the end and that's the theme of Life Anyway. Everyone has to find eventually so not getting what I want. Pushed me there sooner. Well when you get what you want. It's harder to you know reckon with yourself in an honest way yeah yourself a bunch of bullshit on everyone pats you on the back. When it doesn't go your way? Then you really have to Kinda get on us. Yeah I think that when I got what I wanted until I didn't but when I got what I wanted there was a pardon me always felt like deserved it and then when I didn't get what I wanted I was like but I deserve it and then it kind of clicked like Oh there's people everywhere that deserve something and don't get it. I never deserved any of that. No one deserves anything really you know so. I don't know I think I would like to think I'm a better person because I didn't get what I want but I don't really know. Do you spend a lot of mental energy thinking about it or is that just in the past. Now I mean because you're a coach and you're still very much in the sport. It's not like if you've just put us in the rear view and now you have this whole other life. Yeah I have conflicted feelings about staying in the sport. Actually for that reason there was when I was thinking about retiring a big part of me wanted I had to just close the door and leave it behind and I've seen a lot of my peers. Do that and it's very tempting because it eats at you. There's part like the more you stay in the sport the doping stuff keeps eating it the ill my seventh in the world. Finish with all these suspicious people. In how many people have you raised that have beaten you who've been toppled by doping or under under the dark suspicious behavior and they kind of adult think they'll ever I'll ever really know so it just it would. There is a big part of me. That's like I would. I would be happy. Shutting the door diving into music in writing never writing really about sport but then because I do love love. Coaching and I do really love my relationship with Oiseaux on this kind of broader women's Athlete Movement I get to be involved in sport in a way. That is this very holistic where I'm constantly learning and it. It does mean that I am kind of always getting pinged by my past still because as I am engaged in just over there but it also gives me the opportunity to continue rewriting that story in my mind and actually that was really good. What I did it was really good and actually with a few more years under my belt you know? It didn't really matter that much that didn't make the Olympics. I think with every successive successive year it becomes less important. And Your Voice is as strong as ever and the influence that you wield over your sport and just the conversation that swirls around female female empowerment both in sport outside of sport continues to build and grow yeah and it it will continue to build and grow and we need voices who have an expertise and performance in that Congress. Almost almost better. Well here's the thing like because if you like if you just want every ray she were in you become very unreliable. That's true and your your whole thing's being relatable honest and like here's the here's here's what it looks like warts and all but but the minute you don a gold medal and it's like a well. It's easy for her to say. Yeah I mean but the fact that you didn't get what you wanted and you know there is an argument. That should've should've could've would've kind of thing. It makes you kind of more endearing that that that helps you. Connect with the people that are are are interested in what you have to say. I feel that and I think it gives me a little bit of a of a I was GONNA say chip on my shoulder but it's not even that with my coaching. Because I feel like back. I have a very specific coaching philosophy with the elite athletes. I coach which is I will train them to be among the best in the world but not at the expense of their person Hud ed and I had to sort of fight to regain reclaim the importance of person hood during my career. I had a few years where I thought it was that it was like a liability. And that I should just be this like you know Drone monk runner person And that that was the best way to go so I was shutting out any other part of me the musical apart any any other part of me really and I was like no I wanna be a whole person and I ended up having good results in doing that against better judgment of the experts in my field so I coach with like a fervor around that now like who are you. Let's not lose who you are. Let's chase this thing. Yeah you need to make choices. You can't like do do everything all the time. But you shouldn't lose track with who you are because you're you. You can only be you as an athlete. Don't try to be her. Don't try to be whatever And so it means that I really need to get to know who they are as people in order to do that and I feel like I have something to prove there too. I want my success to be measured. By how many of those people of these women leave the sport without an identity crisis without going through it sinking depression Due due to the impossibility of transitioning back into a human self and is it possible to get great results. That way. We're finding out you're getting pretty good ones. How's it going great? Yeah how many athletes do you have. Now we have six on the team. I coach five. Yeah so but it's really pretty magical environment. virement actually crosses outside of track and field which is really exciting because we've got Linsey Corbin and Heather Jackson of the iron man through. I don't coach them Do some kind of advising with heather but on the running side but they come and work out with us like our our gates are open to confirm that champion culture for one another in bend. They live in Ben Right. And and that's just so excited to me so it's like being able to do that in in town is like in this tiny little ideal little whoville watching them compete at Kona was almonds. He She got tenth. Yeah she seems really cool. I've never but she seems awesome. She is she one Wisconsin. I think right I think so. Yep Oh yeah Manhattan got V And had a you know a great day. I think she's finished as high as third before but she's also had some significantly really worse than fifth. So it's good to have a good one that's cool. And how did how did Joseph Fair not being encounter. It was pretty. It was pretty Atef. I think it kind of came up on him quickly right at the last minute because he's so invested in picky bars and his work and the family that he I don't feel like he dwells on it every day but yeah I started get closer and the media buzzes building in. He's like I kind of wish. I was there even socially to connect with people. I think he's starting to feel pretty he like. It's moving in the rear view mirror and I think that's tough Well there are similarities between the two of your stories like dealing doing with these injuries. And you know is is facing. You know what's next for him. What is relationship with professional sports? Look like and and and I think that's a that's a tough confusing emotional place to be. It is also raising kids insurance company and do all the other things things i. I look at Jesse's story as an example of how masculinity is packaged and sold and sport Being Archaic where kind of where where I was in two thousand twelve sitting in the room with Mark Parker at Nike trying to talk about the value of the complete person. Jesse is this guy who is the. CEO picky bars. He's an incredible dad. He's very passionate about equally. Shared parenting contain in a really sharing the emotional labor of homelife which is very against traditional ideas of masculinity right and these are things that are on the forefront of conversations around redefining masculinity and our culture? Right now to help with some of the major problems we're facing as a society -ociety right around violence violence against women to terrorism all these things that are generally perpetuated among men and the the unique ills. Men's men face the that You know the article New York Times I think I read recently was about The the average man having having a difficult time having these emotional intimacy in friendships right because of these antiquated views of masculinity and Jesse's just such an awesome awesome example of being kind of on the forefront of really doing it differently but and so at a point in his career experience on all this friction. In like it's all going to need to be behind him because of work and family. I'm like why isn't this. Just the beginning in some ways for your for your career as a professional athlete like it can look different different. He couldn't do it the way you could before but why is it considered less valuable necessarily if you want to do it differently. Well I think we'd agree with everything he just said in an echo all of that but I think what happens is all of that sort of progressive Sensibility Butts Butts up against a traditional idea of what it is to be a man that like. We still can't quite escape. which is I need to be this champion and I need to be this breadwinner and this? This is what it means to be masculine. And when you don't achieve those goals ambitions for yourself there's a sense of emasculation place that makes you feel less than or less than a man or like. This is what this is where I'm supposed to be as point in my life and I'm not and I feel like there's a there's a weird kind of not shame but like you know a sense of insecurity. I think that goes hand in hand with that. Yeah what do you think can be done about it. I don't I mean I'm I'm far far BIENVENIDA. Give anybody advice. I can only share my own personal experience but I I've gone through this and I remember as I was trying to figure out Who I want it to be as I was transitioning out of law? It was a very confusing time and it was also very. There was a lot of financial hardship and I have vivid memories of being down at the park in Malibu with my two daughters like pushing them on the swings things and it was like two o'clock on Tuesday and a bunch of MOMS and I'm down there and I and I had these conflicting emotions of like how cool well is it that I can be in the middle of a weekday can be at the park with my daughter when they're young in this precious moment verses the conflicting and probably the more powerful sentiment which is like what are you doing. What are you doing your life man of nothing going on and like you're down here in the middle of the day and you don't even know what you're doing like this? This is not the way it's supposed to look and that creates a kind of vertigo. That the only way through that is to stay with it and I think the answers are you know within the Self Jesse knows what the Path is and those solutions calm when you can find those moments of stillness and and and clarity with the clarity around those intuitions comes when you carve out that time to really connect with yourself and it's it's not gonna come from some other person saying do this or don't do. Yeah yeah that's true. And it kind of reminds me of the beginning of this conversation. We were talking about the power of marketing tissue public perceptions when we're talking about doping and Nike but the the power of sports marketing to kind of shift masculinity. Looks like is there to as these ideas that you're describing having or are just like inherited through right messaging. Yeah that's what it is. That's how they get their Whether it's from media or what you saw aw from your own parents is kids or whatever like they're not I don't know they're not like gibbons like as they don't just exist for Narita norms their social contracts that are reinforced through basically our daily experience in everything that we see in here and are exposed to so much happening with women right now in marketing. Were there the marketing machine of business is for their own sake to make money because it's hot right now. They're helping shift the narrative around the feminine identity and WHO's going to be at the forefront from the business side of shifting masculine identity and capitalizing on that shift. Because it's coming I think on a big way it's happening around us it but I just wonder who's GonNa which which WHO's going to be the first like male specific company really jumping on that that'll be interesting well. Well I don't know Jesse's available. Sure I mean if he wants to they yeah. I don't know inspiration. Well I mean he's amazing and everything that you guys are doing. There's there's something about experiences with my wife as well like both of of you guys have your Respective paths and and kind of lanes that you're in and you're excelling in those And and you're very independent like strong people but there's an alchemy that when you come together whether it's through your podcast or these other various things that you do. There's a there's something like exponentially more awesome about that yeah. I wish we had more time to capitalize on that together. You know what's that's the. That's the nature of young kids like we're at the age where people are splitting up. They got young kids this age and its causes so much tension but actually the podcast is like saving marriage sometime. We have this weekly time where we get to that one. Plus one is more than two bill when we're together the formality of the Mike's it just creates a structure that forces you to be present for that and you can't be like checking your phone. Whatever you you can't joke with my wife it's like oh I think we need to do a podcast because we we need to? Yeah it's on an island. I I definitely feel like optimistic about the future with Jesse. I think it's exciting. I sometimes get Jealous Jealous of future us. If we can just make it to future US where we have more time to spend together with just us we just gotTa make like four more years because if we can make a four more years still liking each other a lot still love each other. We're going to be able to drop to kids off with someone who will take them for a week or two weeks or whatever. We can do some cool adventures together sometimes. It feels like I spend a lot of time in Meiring Jesse from far even though he's in my home you know because there's so much of like all right you take kids. I'm going to go out for run. I'll take the kids you go out for your bike ride. You're leaving next weekend for this work thing. I'm leaving the next weekend for for this work thing you know we we get these short conversations and our communication is good but we just don't have that much time for depth. So yeah feels a little bit like Ron hold sometimes. Well here's a little tip by the time you get to that point then you're going to lament the key thing is. Do you have to appreciate the moment that you're you're in. Yeah because it is precious and the kids do grow up so fast and all of that future tripping your takes you out of being present for what is actually happening install those super advanced moments. You know that are that are hard but crate and to the extent that you can leverage them to cultivate intimacy and grow closer to Jesse like. That's that's the beautiful potential of the whole thing. So that when you get to that point point where you can drop them off. You actually aren't GonNa want to want to bring them with that too. Well what would you write in your letter to your younger self. Aw Period of time viewing you. I would say that so. Many of the fears and anxieties ladies were completely like justifiable legitimate but also turned out to not happen and the amount of energy that I put into them. mm-hmm is was ridiculous so my letter would be to to to trust yourself. You know above above all and to invest the time required to get to know who you are so that you can figure out what that voice trying to express and be fearless in the expression brush of that and if you can create fidelity to that that your life will unfold in front of you probably not the way you want it to or on the time line you you would prefer to but that's really the only path you know we're here to grow and to the extent that you can invest yourself in that personal growth. I really think that the the answers that you're seeking are revealed in that way. Yeah that's great advice. It makes me feel a little better about the path. I'm on something if to constantly like recommit to because there's I feel like that's my intention but then life comes along. These moments of choices is an. That's also how you coach your athletes. It's adaptability it's not about like here's the plan and we have to be perfect. It's about being malleable so that you can absorb whatever life is throwing. It requires a lot of confidence. Adaptability requires confidence. And I think people look at you know like you're on the cover Outside magazine on a dock. And like you have this beautiful life in these beautiful kids in this business in it all looks fantastic and what I appreciate is just honesty with which you share ear struggles and how difficult it is. And I think it's fun to tune into your podcast and they'll be questions about like. What Gel do I use? And then the next question is like what is venture capital is kind of amazing the breadth of things people. And it's fun. I really enjoy doing that. I think you need to write this book. What do you think? What do you want to know in the book? What do I want to know? What do you want to know? I just I I think it to me. It almost doesn't matter like the narrative is less important than just your voice because there's something very specific about the way that you write very identifiable that dates all the way back to when you started blogging. It's just this unapologetic honesty so refreshing so to me. It almost doesn't matter matter what you decide to focus on. It's the voice I think. Yeah that that I connect with and I think that's needed you know especially like a strong female avoid. He's honest who has integrity who can speak truth to power and like elevate the feminine strengthen the feminine. I think is something that we need in our culture. Well thanks yeah so where we out with that love you on this. Yeah you can press me on it I am obviously more committed than ever to honest truth. Telling in my writing style is just say things how they are and if I find that I'm dancing around something I try to just cut right into it and and get right to the truth of the matter So right now where I'm out in the writing process is kind of recommitting to the book. I I was on a in a real groove move. I'm sure any writer can relate to this but in a real groove of writing having in my everyday and then coaching started to ramp up and I ho sees wilder retreats rugby running and writing and those take a wash time. Is that women only because I want to go to one of you can come to the. Were you know things like most of them are women. Only but I do host them for fair-minded airman and Julia Hamlin still involved. Yeah she. She's teaching the Yoga at the retreats. She's awesome. I'm actually going to talk to her on her. Oh never mind. I shouldn't talk about that. I'm talked to her on a special thing coming up soon but Yes she was. I talking about writing Elliott writing so my book holder older. Yeah so I put it away. I put it in a drawer and then I recently was going crazy because I'm not writing so I'm spending time writing in my mind and my bed pissed that I didn't write during the day. I'm at that stage of the creative process but I needed to essentially do A. When the when the track season was over for the athletes coaching I needed to kind of create better boundaries around my coaching time is when my creative time is on my family? Time is all of were just bleeding into another and spending too much time on my phone in front of my kids. Because I'm getting coaching stuff coming in at nine o'clock at night and basically anything can pull pull away from writing time because writing is hard and you have to sit alone in a chair and so suddenly scheduling everything on top of my writing time. So I really did. The exercises sitting down in reclaiming my time and now I have a schedule. So that's really help. It's been a week so let you know how it goes but I am writing good again and Just about momentum. Yeah it is. It has anything in that way. How do you deal with? I'm sure you get this question a lot like you you guys. You're so you and Jessie are so mashed in your your business and your personal lives like there's this idea like oh there needs to be boundaries around when we stop talking about business and when it's our time and I know for me like that's kind of like setting myself up to fail because I can't really we live up to that okay now. Here's here's the Iron Curtain. That's going down on work and it's like this is our lives like this is what we're involved in. This is what's top of mind of the things you need to talk about so I don't do a very good job in the traditional sense of like creating boundaries around that and I'm wondering how you guys do that we've had to be pretty strict with it. I Don I think just like you. I don't think it's natural inclination to want to do it. But I grew up in a household that were boundaries weren't really super-safe Like my dad was an alcoholic. He was an amazing guy but he was kind of an explosive alcoholic. And so the the It's really important to me that there that there's going to be kind of like a feeling of safety on what we're going to talk about and with work work is not safe for me talking about picky bars at dinner or like. I don't know just having a kind of come out of left field when I'm thinking about something else It affects me in a really negative way and in part of that is the boundaries thing from growing up part of it is my relationship with risk is so much different from Jesse's and so every conversation about picky bars comes back to risk for me. I mean our names are cosign on every loan. They could take our house. If Vicki virus can't pay their bills that's normal entrepreneurship stuff. That Jesse's more comfortable with me. Because of his upbringing bringing in his personality I grew up without a lot of money and canals. Yeah so I don't. It's not safe. It's not a safe space. So how did you end up with such a like a stable. Stand up good. She got a lot of therapy but after I met him I think My mom used to tell me that. Sh- her she grew up with an alcoholic dad and she married an alcoholic and and so I knew from a young age that there was a pattern and she told me straight up. Don't Marion Alcoholic. Plus we had a lot of mental illness in our family and especially bipolar hi polar disorder so all three of my mom's siblings have or had bipolar disorder when they were alive. And so the risk factors if you're genetically predisposed alcohol and drug use lack asleep tons of stress so those things. I was aware from a young age too because my mom was the one kid that managed to avoid that and she was worried about my sister and I and so I had this like double fear around alcohol in particular so for me I really was drawn to kids in high school at good clean fun. I spent a Lotta time hanging out with Mormons in Christians. Even though I'm not a person of faith and Jesse was sort of the first person I met who was similar to but not a person of faith that was he. He didn't have his first drink of alcohol until two months before his twenty first birthday and he got busted busted the first time he held a cup in his hand at a college party ever he got an IP minor in possession which on campus at stiff. I can't visit Stafford like seriously. That's the kind of luck so I was really attracted to the back. He he didn't need those things to be himself to be comfortable around around other people and I felt safe with them. So yeah definitely tractor beamed to that secure stability transcended. Yeah made it made it out here on the landmine. That's and did you have to go. Did you go to Alanon as a kid or just talking to my mom about that. Ah Never got sober. No not well. I don't know maybe four sober when he had liver cancer because he couldn't drink. When you're on the chemo and stuff but now he never he never? Where did he was pretty high functioning? I mean always kept his jobs and stuff but I think in that industry. There's a ton of alcohol use pretty common So Yeah Yeah you never you never did but I think there is some element of that environment that I grew up in that I miss though like all his buddies or always always had a beer in their hand they were always down party. They were always having fun sister after. Yeah like for all the you know when when it all falls apart as bad. Yeah there's an aspect. I think that's very exciting. It is it is very exciting. You never know what's going to happen you don't you don't do. I am kind of that person in the relationship not with substances. But I'm the livewire. The unpredictable the spontaneous one and Jesse so stable able that sometimes we have friction around that of the predictable versus the unpredictable. You know that that role with like on the lease think. Yeah money's different. I don't know there's something about that When you grow up without it yeah yeah different relationship? Of course that that's true going to Stanford sports was my way out into a different future right. I didn't get a scholarship freshman year at Stanford but I was told old when I went on my recruiting chip that if I competed well I'd get one every other year and since I was young and naive I never considered that wouldn't happen. I never considered a guy I'd get hurt or anything I was like. Oh okay okay great. So that's as good as you telling me that I only have to pay for for one part of you know. We've got financial aid so one part of one year and luckily I didn't get her and I did get that support and the other years and Yeah so it made a difference but it always felt like tenuous like I would take ketchup gotcha packets from fast food restaurants. 'CAUSE I didn't have money to buy a bottle of ketchup or I would buy my gas like two dollars at a time. Just limping my car along I didn't have a credit card. The debit card like my buddies on the team and I couldn't do that I had friends or giving me their old hand-me-down clothes and I had friends that would always magically by me my milkshake at post post race celebrations and I got by with a lot of support from people that I always felt like. I had no business being there so yeah that I didn't grow up with any money management attachment skills so yeah I think Jesse had entrepreneurial parents and Just I think he just has a lot of confidence. Go to business school. And he's just kind of I think more familiar and I get better and better. He does a he's just realized she has to really explain it to me and I need to feel really safe any all the information ancien. But when I'm ready for it and not understand that about each other because you can make sure that those needs are fulfilled. Yeah right yeah and I think every risk-takers taker Kinda can benefit from a voice of reason in their life. So I like to think that I I help keep picky bars on like more reasonable path of risk or maybe slightly more conservative approach than he may otherwise. Take only time will tell how that turns out. But we're almost ten years. That's pretty good. Yeah what's where's it at like. Since I talked to Jesse like where you guys are you guys. You have like a couple supply chain things did. Yeah and when you talked to Jessie he was just kind of diamond in full time to the business After Challenge Roth and kind of decide. WHO's going to go on Sabbatical and apply his tenacity his iron person person tenacity to the business and he has had an amazingly successful year so the company is doing well? We've had a few profitable months. Nothing crazy but just like the the models working. He can see clear year-over-year numbers that his time and his effort has worked and that the decisions we've made have been beneficial and it feels good to see him kind of walk them around and feel proud of himself for something so non sport related. Let's do feel safer and safer anytime you're in. The black feels better well a decade in ten years of uncertainty and. You guys are still doing it so that should also feel like you're you're probably going to be okay. I still feel like most profitable year was when we were working out of our home kitchen because your overhead is nothing you know like we're selling millions more picky bars but it's so much harder to make the numbers work because food business and just business and generals just doesn't it still doesn't totally make sense to me why it's easy when you're tiny and it's almost impossibly hard until you get to some magic number like ten million or twenty million in revenue and then as soon as you get there things start to change again. It's a different way or a lot of businesses are like that my wife was in the fat garment business and it was the same thing like you when you're small. It's fine right and then you get into that. Now there's on that Middle Zone and she was. She had a very complicated line and she was doing all the store. All the big department stores that kind the stuff when they pay are were crazy like she's constantly teetering on disaster. The whole time and the only way that you become like Tommy Hilfiger no figures somebody gives you like an insane amount of money to get you over that. Yeah and that's the thing is that we we are kind of at that level where we have to decide. Do we try to find money and try to grow at faster or do we kind of stay the course on this safer. More sustainable path of growth We have all positive signals in our business right now but you do you know you don't know you don't know so. That's Jesse's job. That's what he's swimming in every day and I'm like please don't bring me into that unless we have a meeting. So then you have like fifteen minutes to talk about it and Yeah and he's he's an obsessive person. You know desire man you understand the Orient. Yeah so he could talk about it. Twenty four seven and be happy. But he's I think it's good for him to be a little bit more more balanced that way all right. We got a couple of minutes. But I can't let you go without I love asking elite athletes What they what they would tell like what what are the? What are the things that most amateurs are doing wrong? Like you're at all these races marathons whatever five Ks de and you see your around a lot of people who are weekend. Warriors or serious amateurs and you're like why is that person doing. Don't they know that they. Yeah what comes up when you think about that. Well well being that I'm in the food business. I generally just had a moment like this running a picky booth at a at a running event in Soho mish Washington. The things that come up up to me the people the things people say when they come to nutrition move or just. That's what happened the most. I'm like why do you think you cannot eat. Carbohydrates why do you you think. Four grams of sugar is too much sugar. Why are you wishing this had zero calories in its food? It shouldn't have you know just the things that people full believe like hold these D- published they make me sad. Because I know I know from experience having been someone who teetered on the edge of an eating disorder early in my professional career who was pretty obsessed with with weight and calories and trying to optimize it like I did every other part. I was doing that from a performance side. But I know how much brain in-space it can take up. It makes you unable to really enjoy your life and be present in so many other ways I just I see that and I get sad his. I'm just like Oh they're so. Imagine what you could could do if you weren't so worried about that. Four grams of sugar. That comes from you know Banana or whatever. It is like Magin. What's possible muscle hence the cards? T shirts defensive PARV say no I just had a now. I really do struggle with that outside of that. There's like more more lighthearted things like People just hammering breezy as. I'm sure you get that one a lot but when I go out and runs with amateur owners that are just they the only run a few times a week but when they do the hammer it just like strawberry culture. Yeah I do love some good struggle trauma mountain bike though I will confess but You do you just like anything that people do that makes it hard to have. A sustainable enjoyable relationship with. Sport is hard to see a rather didn't weren't you running with some Kenyans wants when you were like Iran so slow yeah. I couldn't believe it. I really couldn't believe it. They were training in Palo. Alto leading into the Payton Jordan invitational to run five KS and ten in case and I was just like what is happening right now. They were doing the kind of job that you do when you're approaching a red light and you wanna like time it so the slow way. Hey down so that we can hit the light right when it turns out. Slow twelve to fifteen minute pace it. I feel like I'm talking for how long before they wrap it up. We're renting tolman. It pays probably for a few minutes and sort of you just gradually trying to down and ten and then denied but mind you. At this time I was running. All my runs. It's six forty six or forty seconds. So this was like what's happening here is like jump like tripping over my feet and then by the end. They were running under six-minute miles on that particular on they ran it like a progression but When I later got to train with Sally Cato on her easy day she would just run easy early she would run? Probably one and a half to two minutes per mouse lower than I would if I went by myself so I started making myself go out with her the days after hard workouts because she would just kick my butt on the workout days on the track. And we'll obviously run in those nine minute. Miles isn't hurting you at all so I might as well do that too. There's some kind of weird American mindset where it's like we we. We can't give ourselves permission to do that. Like we have this time. We have to be you know performance minded about it at squandered if we go slow yeah yeah we know it's a recovery day and that goes for beyond sport right taking the fifteen minutes between when you got to the doctor and your doctor appointment not feel like. Can you be checking emails answering during your phone. What if you just sat there looked around? But all of man's suffering can be reduced to his inability data. This it with himself alone is that yeah. I will say as a person who sitting still does not come naturally to me but they had meditation practice for you. I don't have one. If I was a early riser I would have won easily. Want one but my kids are my alarm and it makes it tough so I have to put it at a different time of day. It's not impossible though. I could do it but you. You live in this little blue zone right like right on the river. The kids probably go to school. WHOA like down the street you walk or ride a bike to school in first grade contained? Ladies Home Yeah it is. It's to yes eighty two and so how did you need some six six first-grader learning to read doing all that super advanced. Yeah it's so fun and what's so. Let's wrap this up. So what's what what what's next. What's next while top of mind for me is really? This is my new year's it's not new year's it's fall but I really want to write. I want to do creative work and wants to be a part of my daily life life. I want to be the best coach that can be And I want to spend more like mindful present time with my family and so I'm really trying hang to create three distinct buckets. I've lived mile generally like an integrated life approach. That's what I tend to do but I have just learned that it's A. It's really making me unable to do those things as well as creativity and family. Yep I so I want to do so. Creativity is going to be mostly my book. But there's space for music in their space for podcast in there It's just like creating things feeling like that. Creative part of me that exists outside outside of someone else's Athletic Success because the coaching is creative but it really is for someone else's house Moments so and I and I as a as rewarding that what is I mean more than that To sellers. Yeah I do I want to set a better example for my kids around device usage. So that's where the boundary comes for family family. That when I'm with my family I want to be with my family and I know Jesse and I are two point in our relationship where I think that will go a long way for us and In for my first grader greater him to I want him to know what we're doing when we're in the room with them when you're faces in a phone you could be doing anything it's hard. It's hard though it is but I wanNA WANNA try it. I want to try it for a few months and just see what you know. See what happens and I think I just when I'm with Jesse and we're not on our phones. I feel special the most important person in my life so I know he must feel the same way when I'm not on my phone and I need that. I need a need that bolstered feeling that I matter or to him that he sees me in with all your things happening our life. I need to feel that and I want him to feel it. Yeah that's a good place to end it beautifully if we saw it I love that and I'm going to hold you to the book I'm going to. I'm going to read it. I would be happy to do that. Please any any help I can give you receive appreciate it awesome and then when you write you can come back and tell me about okay back on the show work play. Love is the podcast you can find Lauren. She's easy to find on the Internet. Fleischmann Flyer Freshman refreshment on twitter and on on twitter. And you're not you're you blog on the site but not on your own site now I haven't logged on my own side. I want to revamp my website. So Uh ask Lauren. Fleischmann Dot Com has the archives of kind of my athletic stories and Kind of some. QNA before we answered questions on play love. I answered questions on my blog right cool. Yeah all right well a pleasure thank you so much. It's been great talking to you Jesse. Well do carbs serves carbs. Don't leave him out there sad there you have it we did it. Powerful that Lauren earn flushing hope. He goes enjoyed that. Be sure to check out the show notes on the episode page to dive deeper in the Lorentz world shore. Some love on the socials. You can find her again on twitter at Lorne Fleischmann and on Instagram at Fleishman Flyer. Lastly don't forget to check out her blog. Ask Lauren Fleischmann and check out the workplace. Love podcast with her husband. Jesse See Thomas Once again right now you can take thirty percent off your first order at picky bars with the code rich role. When you're there be sure to check out their CO exist campaign pain which supports awareness and recovery from eating disorders again? This is purely a gift. I'm not an affiliate. This is not a page sharing good information about good nutrition from a good people. If you'd like to support the work we do here on the show subscribed rate and comment on the podcast on Apple. PODCASTS showing social media subscribe to Youtube Channel spotify Ogle podcast and you can support on patriotic at ritual dot com for slash donate honor. Thank everybody help it on the show. Today Jason Kam Yellow for audio engineering production. Show notes interstitial music. Play courtesy Margaret Lubin for videoing and editing the video version of the podcast Jessica Miranda for graphics Alli Rogers for portrait's shirts decay. David Kahn for advertiser relationships and theme music by Analii appreciate the love guys. LLC back here. A couple of days with the producer assert editor and writer at the New York. Times Lindsey Krause it's a great Companion piece to this episode. I think he going to really enjoy it so to take you out. Here's a clip and until then peace flights. I'll stay if we want to think about girl sports. We need to invest in the girls that are actually playing these sports. The girls that Americans but also the girls behind Mary Kane in the race. We need to make sure that we're protecting all of them. And I think that's going to involve first of all investing in and science. There's not a lot of the science that we have is. Based on a boy's trajectory it's different than a girl trajectory and then really educating coaches to understand how to nurture richer specifically a girls athletic trajectory and finally helping girls at like understand. What's good and what's bad pressure? Girls comes from themselves like these are really good. Girls tells us are high achieving girls. They know how to do what it takes. What they don't understand necessarily as what the stakes of that are and that if they just ride out some of these challenges that are different than and the boys are even some of the girls that they're competing against any given time they can come out the other side and maybe be one of those women in their late twenties or early thirties? That are setting setting national records. That are on the metal podiums that are going to the Olympics and the longer distance races. But I think we're so much of that. Talent is actually getting to extinguish a fire earlier than it should be if anything that's come out of this conversation around the stuff in recent days. If anything comes out of that I hope it's that like you can excel. How without hurting yourself talk

Sports Nike Lauren Nike Oregon Project Lindsey Krause Alberto Nike Nike Mark Parker asthma USA Joni Mitchell Tony One Jesse Jaybird Jesse Thomas Lance Armstrong Dr Brown Rich
Are Heat the Team To Beat?

Around the Horn

23:44 min | 11 months ago

Are Heat the Team To Beat?

"Take. You people. At wits through a series showing dominance in class and everybody wants to talk about the losing team. We start with Miami here, the team that's eight and one in the playoffs and has heroes and hero and is now in the Eastern Conference finals frank guys, Solar Sarahspain L.. Dunkin prove to me. You're not those people. Frank is it possible? Miami is the best team in this tournament. Am One of those people I still think the Lakers clippers even Boston maybe better but the mistake I made was underestimating Pat Riley. The team is playing well with Jimmy Butler tyler here Obama by Jae crowder. Let's not forget about him but Tony another key is, let's remember in the conference finals. They would have been starting on the road at Boston a Toronto it's. A young inexperienced team the fact that they're in a bubble level playing field takes a lot of pressure a young team that's been a key factor Oakland I recognize what you just did. You said all that Nice stuff at the but you started by saying they're not the best team in this tournament, the team that's eight and then everybody remaining basically is better than them. Take note of that should be Butler Sarahspain. The Not sending those young players on the road thing outweighs. The fact that nobody else can get the South beach flu, which is usually something that Miami back pocket when competing. Team is one that has showed us that you could treat this high is like a second off season completely weird offseason season 'cause some of them have returned and come together in ways that we know only that kind of growth and maturity happening across multiple seasons. So they are fantastic and the prisoner of the moment does think it's a possibility that they could take the east and beat. The Celtics team but I still don't see them out vesting a team like this the clippers or the Lakers. So I have to be one of those people you all those people. Okay. L. Dunkin I'm GonNa ask you the same question. They're eight and one in this postseason they just ripped through Milwaukee. Is it possible? Miami's playing the best basketball? Is the best team in the tournament right now? I think it's possible that the best team that is comprised of the island of misfit toys that are still in the bubble everybody got jokes does and got everything I mean well, here's the thing is I do think despite the bucks ridiculous record they matched up really well with the bucks because everyone knows that the key to stopping the bucks in. The playoffs anyway is stopping on and they had the strength to do that between every Butler out of Bio I think that they came together a lot quicker than anyone expected that they would, which is fantastic but I don't see them being better than the clippers or the Lakers however, they could definitely take the east because while the Celtics certainly have. More of a four headed monster and sometimes five headed monster. If you will then the bucks did they certainly have a size advantage down low with Bam? In fact, the one time that they'd be celtics serious because he went off for twenty one points and they can at least keep up with them with their primitive shooting something that the books could not do but not ready to crown yet. Of course not I say again frank you recognize butlers watching this show right now and taking everything you guys just said. Okay. Well let's talk about Milwaukee because if they thought the bubble was uncomfortable, what's going to happen this off season is about to be very uncomfortable for them. The quotes from John, the Chris. Haines Yahoo, sports that if winning with championship was easy, everybody would have won. We're going to keep working and then he has confidence in his teammates and that some see along going and other direction, but I plow through it. Just have to get better as a team. Frank. He's saying to any talk with him leaving. It's not happening for how do you hear him? I'll tell you what if you spent any time around Unison Compo? He's incredibly loyal I. Think He is speaking from his heart I. do think that he wanted to work Adema walkie Tim Duncan spent his entire career in San, Antonio Kobe Bryant in La I think he'd like to be one of those guys whether or not that happens Milwaukee is going to need to improve that supporting cast around them Tony they're less fourteen playoff games. There were five and nine that is not good for team dominates the regular season. The point guard situation right now is a mess they need to get better I think right now is hard as in it, but it's still about the front office going out and support in improving that supporting cast. So you believe there on the clock right now to prove to yes. In some way. Okay. Would you call this an organizational failure to date? Well. I, think it has to be. You know he's it's not about the regular season. It's what you do in the postseason last year. Remember they were up to O on Toronto. They lost the next four games this year they don't even get out of this second round. The only win one game major disappointment for team had championship aspirations, Sarah Spain. How did you hear Jaanus and whether this is an organizational failure at this point, MILWAUKEE? They need to know him well and know whether what he's saying right now is the emotions of a season ending prematurely feeling connected to his teammates like they were in it together in disappointed each other. But there's plenty of time over the course of the next season for something to go awry and for them to figure out that they're going to lose them I think they need to put the work into keep them. They may be benefitted by a lower cap because other teams won't be able to afford them but they also will be hurt by it because they don't really have a lot of room to add change pieces they're going. To have to get creative with how they try to support him I also think they might have to look at the head coaching position here because a regular season record like that, and then a lack of ability to make adjustments to a team like the heat in the postseason falls not only on the superstar but also on the coaching I, think he seems like a loyal guy who would like to stay there and his brother is there. But you have to, you have to really think about what you're doing here because you can't lose them for nothing else a couple of interesting things Franken than from Sarah here talking about boone holes, let's the head coach and we're talking about that moment where an athlete says something immediately after a season but whether that could evolve over a summer now fall. In this case, please join US Dunkin. Yeah Janas doesn't have that Anthony Davis and where he's going to be like, Oh, I don't want to be here come and get me that doesn't like his style so I don't think that he's necessarily made up his mind whether he'll stay or not. But I do believe that he's going to test the free agent market like I don't see him signing an extension sooner rather than later you talk about or failures. Of course, it is. They traded away Malcolm Brogdon and they have no money to bring in any re enforcements. They got a twenty four, th pick a for BALCON Braga. You're telling me whoever they draft. Twenty fourth overall is going to be able to replace what he was bringing you in perimeter shooting. It's not GonNa Happen and yes, it is coach. But I'm sorry like he is the best coach in the NBA from October to April. But we saw in Atlanta and we're seeing it now with the bucks his ridiculousness and his inability re rather to work with a playoff rotation and outside of what got them there to the playoffs is always going to hamper them. If you've got a star player who's a Unicorn but doesn't even have a mid range jumper. That's interesting to me. Frank can you address bondholder and also move? It off Air Chris. Paul was moved to see them me. I was saying that last summer in fact and I do think know the one thing about Ghana's let's remember he didn't play well last year against Toronto this series is hurting games three and four doesn't play in game five and the one thing that L. brought up about Malcolm Brogdon a lot of people have mentioned him. You know his team also got swept Malcolm Brogdon is hurt all the time but I'd rather have Brogden Eric bledsoe absolutely eric a but he of gets treated Malcolm Brogdon like Scotty pippin all of a sudden. They were fifty three and twelve, and then the stoppage came Sarah. How much I mean there peripheral stats were so far ahead of the rest of the League at that point and the bubble comes how much you think of that disjointed their season. Well I remember before the bubble began when we were still debating whether it would make sense for the NBA to return and what kind of Asterisk would-be on this playoff season if they did and we said if something crazy happens like you see the buck or the Lakers are one of those favorites go out early will you judge whether this is a legitimate competition now the way that this ended with the injury and the way it kind of Mir. The bucks disappointment I think the fact that the clippers and Lakers are still in it make it feel a little bit more legitimate but you do have to wonder is this a fair representation of this bucks team were would things have been different for them? Had there not been a break? You wonder I'll have to remember that this is twenty five. Twenty Five Lebron didn't win is first at that age Jordan didn't win his first at that age but you wonder whether this is a fair representation doesn't sound like els wondering does it sound like Franks one? Bear representation of Milwaukee more headlines to get to hear Buell. Time Record for playoff wins. That's a pretty big stat right now. Lebron James Actually. I. Do want you to break that down how I feel that is also. Playoff Rondo making it appearance for the first time. Lakers oneness this in the fourth quarter last night. Sarah. I'm GonNa Gobsmack you you ready built. Broken time today this series is over what did you see less? Do that. Do that for such a renowned an awarded writer, you'd think he'd have a better catchphrase than one that is repeatedly disproved but okay bill I do think the Lakers are going to win this series particularly playoff rounded up. The two are related Lebron is so incredibly effective and so impressive this many years into his time in the league he can hit that button, turn it into turbo charged. It's unbelievable. To watch the fact that he's still doing. It is frankly under reported but the fact that Rondo control to do what he did allows him in D and that top heavy lakers. Seemed to step back a little bit and let others take some of the weight that's GonNa key. If they want to keep this run going and you believe that's real, not a mirage on a one game mirage from Rondo. I don't know that it will be exactly like that from playoff Rondo do. meaning. Three. Don't get how `bout you what did you see from the Lake Yeah I mean Rondo scored or assisted I believe on twenty three of the Lakers. Final thirty points I. don't see that as like something that is repeatable necessarily. But to Sarah's point I do think it's really remarkable. We're at Lebron's career because he had twenty nine points in the first half and went largely cold in terms of making buckets for the rest of the game. But what did he do instead of making an? Impact on the box score. In that way, he had four blocks in one quarter and his aggressiveness and his dog in him his mentality. Those things are important or what's going to carry a Lakers t who is ridiculous and wins just about every single game where Anthony Davis, Lebron James go off. But even yesterday we saw that they had a ridiculous for staff and so went into halftime down. So it's GonNa take players like playoff Rondo showing up in order to key them to a championship. Franken you start there the first half that L. Just alluded to right. I mean. It was a combat nearly fifty points combined for Lebron Davis. They were trailing at the half. So what did you see from La last night? And L. brought it up the four block shots because Lebron said halftime that watching film a lot of teams do that they needed to get better defensively. So the bronze said a talking about it. He leads the way that to me is an example of leadership and the numbers you mentioned Tony One, hundred, sixty, two career playoff wins. How about the fact that he's played in two hundred and forty seven career playoff games? Three. Full NBA season's just a playoff games and he's not hanging on by a thread. He's still dominating games. That's what's remarkable about it and to get a guy like Lonzo everyone mentioned it. It's not gonNA happen every night but Rhonda has been through this before and that experience comes in handy at this time of year you know you can say they added postseason series which they did and length of games even changed in the last generation you know they used to be a best in the first round. That's still anymore seasons when you're talking about your seventy already played twenty th incredible. That is that is an all time stat. You don't hear it a lot most wins in the playoffs that matters we're going to take a break right here. When we come back could there be a three hundred and forty sixteen NCAA tournament. And what would that do already that would put it on of work if everybody. I can say. This point. Over two point, three million people are in jail and prison today black Americans. Make up forty percent of those incarcerated despite making up only thirteen percent of US residents. This is not an accident. It's a consequence of decades of bad policy decisions. As we address racism, we must address the crisis of mass incarceration Joe Biden promised in Aclu volunteer that if elected, he'd reduce incarceration levels by fifty percent we. Need Him to follow through on that promise a commitment. Now to release anyone who has served half of a drug syndicates with a signal that he is serious, the ACLU believes are criminal system is broken racist and unjust. Our next president must fix that and can start by releasing those hurt by the misguided war on drugs paid for by the American Civil Liberties. Union. INC RIGHTS FOR ALL DOT. Org. It's your apartment speaking and I need some favors when you're seeing in the shower, just try going up a key you're trying to be alto when really you're a soprano Oh and if you could bundle your renters and car insurance with GEICO, it's easy to do online and we could save money and then when you read your murder mysteries at night, could you read out loud but? Skip the murder parts because I get scared. For bundling easy go to GEICO DOT COM today. Some surprising news of the day from college basketball proposal to expand the NCAA tournament and open it up to every eligible teams. ACC coaches want to do it said it would be best for the students. L. would all three hundred, forty, six eligible teams in the tournament this year make sense. No Nobody asks for this the tournament. This old perfect as it is, no one wants to expand to everyone listen coach k. sort of had a very coach k. type of statement where it sounded like to me he was basically saying, let's incentivize these kids playing through pandemic and risking their health by saying everyone gets a shot at the national championship but I'm sorry stare at not even Chicago State thinks that they deserve a shot at. Stopping Sarah Spain on all three hundred and forty six in the tournament. Yeah. I mean you know I wasn't going to hype up it anyway. I was GONNA go. Versus Liberty Way back into the. Part of that is made of sunshine and cinnamon says, this is great like everyone should have a shot and not feel like you know maybe they're great years is preempted by the coronavirus, but the majority of me is not made of Sunshine Recorder. Money and this is not for the betterment of students or for the tournament. All right. What is the other part of you made up elbows and razor blades? For a Guy Solo by herself every team making the tournament this year I'm buying it and Tony you are the record L. does not want Fordham in the tournament. How could it be a bad idea? What are you pay? Just been talking about this for eighteen years? Well, that wouldn't be. Raising. The way yeah. Well, I, mean the the point is this year where everything is up in the year does it is it wise to do that? Is there enough money to do that or does the money you'll make an it's one more week and that's what it is though I mean you're only playing two more games. Yet. Potential. You might not have conference tournaments. So so maybe this is the one year you go for more of everything more of everything. Yes. That's what I say. US Open today Serena dropped the first then rallied one the second two sets quickly. So after she got more energy said in in the second set. Semifinals is tomorrow from the even more energy. She's playing a quick turnaround L. did Serena's down and up performance but you'd think she's got a better chance of winning this opened or were tougher chance exactly the same in pursuit of twenty four since she had her baby this sort of been Serena. We all know that her biggest opponent is herself and so she. Flirts with danger and flirts with danger like she has all US Open long and sometimes bites are like it has in the previous tournament and sometimes it doesn't it today it did not. But we'll certainly see the next time she comes it's going to be a quick turnaround which could certainly be tough on someone that admitted came out with a lack of energy. Down and performance today. What does it mean for Serena? Sarah. I agree with L., that I can't say that based on today I feel any more or less confident in her ability to win. But I do think the quick turnaround is something to consider what we've seen since that baby and in pursuit of twenty four has a lot of tournaments where she gets very very close and just stumbles at the end if that's about fatigue or conditioning or focus, that's where you have to wonder about the backpacks can get right back at it tomorrow and take away from Serena's win today. She tries to make a quick to Sheila Tournament Aces But both Ellen Sarah Right tomorrow the fact that she has to play and beat. Mertens or as Aranka, and then remember on the other side of the draw. She would either get if she made the finals Asaka or Gen. Brady. Who absolutely crushes the ball I would love to see Brady versus Serena and the finals because those would be the hardest hitting players we've ever seen. By three baseball if the season ended today, the New York Yankees would be the eighth and final team in the playoffs barely half game up on Baltimore in the midst of the five fifteen run with no offense no pitching Brian cashman coming down from high to talk to the team for the first time in a decade. And said. I believe in you. Bought our fans deserve better. They probably went out and lost the jades frank as far as pep talks go whereas I believe you. But our fans are better GM and then also wants to deal with this team. That was a very George Steinbrenner like moved by Brian Cashman. The good news is bigger seven against the red sox. The bad news is they're fourteen and twenty one against everybody else the bullpen has been terrible Gary Sanchez doesn't do anything I think they'll make it. They'll be dangerous, but they're just GONNA get in. So you'd think they can get out of this funk in time for the postseason. The eighteen right now in the American League Sarah. What is this deal? Remember that time I did math on the show and I do mean that time because I think it was just wants to point seven games per game this year. So when you go on a slump like this, it's like a third of the that's why I don't think. They'll snap out of it I. think that the likelihood you pep talk from somebody and then you immediately just get drilled I don't think this is going to be a quick fix for them I don't know if they have time Well, maybe they need to point seven pep talks then Sarah Spain. All right. So they are exactly five hundred right now I mean is this rock bottom for this team? Should they be hitting a panic button? They don't even have a button for Dunkin. What is this? I just I find the whole thing to be incredibly ironic that it's cashman saying the fans deserve better. You given the fans better. It's you that made the decision to do absolutely nothing at the trade deadline and said that trying to go after a clever or Lance Lynn that the price was way too high frank mentioned George Steinbrenner that's not steinbrenner ish at all because the Yankees of me growing up my generation of Yankees would have spent any amount of money to get out of. Bronx they bring Billy Martin back at this point yeah. Well, no I mean it's just I was running team that would not be the pep talk that he would be giving for. You know that better than anybody here you know you could say they have injuries you can, but they just paid a quarter of a billion dollars to get cold. He's not pitching to potential Sarah Spain I know what you're a potential is to facetime every show not today maybe you should've banks out that only HQ banks makes an appearance on the show what what are we doing here? So late, right guys stole I work overtime L. Duck showdown in two minutes. Here as a football pro, I've seen some wild fantasy football superstitions, but you don't need look you just need IBM. Watson is the I in the ESPN fantasy analyzing millions of sources to give you insights on players and trades visit IBM dot com slash fantasy football. It's your apartment speaking and I, need some favors when you're seeing in the shower, just try going up a key. You're trying to be an alto when really you're a soprano. Oh and if you could bundle your renters and car insurance with GEICO, it's easy to do online and we can save money and then when you read your murder mysteries at night, could you read out loud but? Skip the murder parts because I get scared. For Bundling made easy go to geico dot. com today. L. Dunkin Frank. Good. Luck and showdown billy Donovan out in. Okay. See they just went seven games and forty seven minutes and fifty eight seconds with Houston, and he was just third in coach of the year. And he's linked to a possibility at least four Philadelphia. And Chicago Frank make sense and how attractive is Donovan for that next. Job It sounds like okay. So he's GonNa start a rebuild maybe he doesn't want to be part of that. I think you do great another place if bill self were to take the okay. See Job don't allow Billy Donovan maybe going to Kansas. L.. Okay. Well, I mean Billy Donovan was lowered our college where he was very successful for the chances of winning a championship with Russell Westbrook and Kevin. Durant on the roster. So why would you go to a team that's headlined by a guy named Zach Levine? No Offense Sarah Spain I'm just saying. Wow, you really tickets shots. Destination. That's for Donovan trade because in sense that would be okay. See that's intriguing. Point Frank is Sola showdown to. Well gave four tonight between the Clippers in nuggets. You know my theory, there are more game fours than game fives. And Game Six tonight Celtics Raptors theory there are more old time gained sixes in game seven. Let's focus on one L. Dunkin. Can Toronto Stave off elimination and make this a seven game series or you got Boston tonight absolutely in that last game, they were trotting out lineups. They've literally never put on the floor before and got zero contributions from Kyle lowry and Pascal Ceac I. That's not GonNa Happen to straight games. I think they can win tonight. Don't ever underestimate the heart of a champion, but here's the thing Paschal Siaka needs to play better. He has not played well in the bubble even as coach called him out for that. It's put up time. Nurse did do that and did call that Siaka who said that I never underestimate the heart of its share in for Guy Solar. Rudy. Tomjanovich that's correct and that's the face time to is still How lucky that I get? Well, I don't know what's going on in the world of the new. England patriots a team that I really do like is a bill belichick Tom. Brady has gone I'm watching the Byu Navy Game Yeah Bill Belichick is doing an interview where he wouldn't get off the air. That's how much things have changed and now keep to leap was asked if he wanted to come back and unretire and he turned down the Patriots why? Because he said he's taking his talents to the booth. He's GONNA become get. This is going to have his own podcast why because everyone has a podcast looking retirement welcome to the world of podcast Frank you like asking rhetorical questions why? Because you were? A Amelie regretting underestimating the heart of that set in. Sarah Very Nice.

Sarah Spain Lakers Franks clippers Milwaukee L. Dunkin Frank L. Dunkin Celtics L. Lebron James NBA Toronto Tony One Rondo Boston Serena Miami Butler Sarahspain GEICO Billy Donovan
Anthony Abbott  2020 Inductee in the NC Literary Hall of Fame Shares His Wonderful Poetry and His Literary Journey  May He Rest in Peace [Ep 146][S7-05]

Charlotte Readers Podcast

1:19:00 hr | 10 months ago

Anthony Abbott 2020 Inductee in the NC Literary Hall of Fame Shares His Wonderful Poetry and His Literary Journey May He Rest in Peace [Ep 146][S7-05]

"Support. For Charlotte Readers podcast is provided by Park Road books the oldest and only independent bookstore in Charlotte, and by Charlotte Mecklenburg library a connector of readers, leaders and learners with twenty locations and a twenty four hour online presence support is also provided by members like you, and for that, we offer our gratitude along with some awesome only content. You can find out more about these member benefits. It's Charlotte Readers PODCASTS DOT COM. Welcome to Charlotte Readers podcast authors give voice to the written words. This is the show remained local and regional authors and sometimes even farther afield with the magic of remote podcasting. Hear them read their work. We are a proud member of the Queen City podcast network, a collection of Charlotte podcast produced in and centering around the Queen City. And also a proud number of authors only. Air. Global Radio Network. Broadcasting Radio shows and podcasts about offers to a worldwide audience. I'm Landis Wade, the producer and host of this podcast I'm recovering trial lawyer. I'm the author of a trilogy of books were Lawyers Save Christmas. Kind of a cross between my cousin, Vinny and miracle on thirty Fourth Street and I, write stories and I love books I. Love Dogs. I love beaches, mountains, and Flos, fishing sports and reading and more. Listeners. This is the part of show were supposed to how excited I am about the steps Oh. But I'm also very sad because our guest today. Tony Abbott passed away this past weekend. Tony was such a wonderful poet professor of English, Emeritus Davidson. College. algebra graduated from in privileged to spend several hours within the summer remotely of course, planning to record and then recording this. With him for Charlotte. PODCAST. We're supposed to release this on November seventeenth in honor of his memory is being released today. And in this episode, we talk about his life as passion for teaching which she describes a spiritual experience. and His love of poetry and not only does he read some of his favourite poems that he's written? He talks about life as if he knew this day was coming much sooner than I did. I knew he was saving treatments, but he had such A. Vital. Quality voice and such an upbeat attitude that I had no idea. That he would leave so soon. I'm really glad I. Get the chance to be with him. And I'm glad I asked him how he felt about being inducted on the northbound literally hall of fame. And how he wanted to be remembered as a writer. How was for him as the poet? To wrestle with the angel in his poetry book the Angel Dialogues. What might be waiting for him on the other side. Since taking on this project called CHARLEENA's podcast of hadn't occurred to me the someone I interviewed. By DAB for their episode. came out. Taking this Kinda hard it. It's a it's a reminder that we're. All here on this earth such short period of time. And went back over the last few days and listen to. This. Interview. My sadness was mixed with. Inspiration. Inspiration that I feel from the example that he set. A life that he lived in the way he continued to write. Even to the end. He told me and you'll hear this in this episode. Riding is not about writing necessarily. Riding is about living. In the more deeply fully you live, you are able to write. And he also said, Landis do it now? Do it now? Do It now before it's too late? Thank you China's sharing your wonderful poetry in your words, West with me in the world. Here's the interview as it was slated to release a for a learned the news. enjoyed. This episode in honor of. Anthony Tony Abbott. In, today's up. So immed- award-winning Davidson North Carolina poet novelist Anthony, Tony Abbott Two Thousand and twenty inducted into the North Carolina Literally Hall of fame an organization which celebrates and promotes the state's rich literary heritage. But commemorating leading authors encouraging continued flourishing of great literature tiny talks with us today about his writing life and reach poetry from three of his award-winning chat books published by. New and selected poems if or it could save us and the angel dialogues. Of the Angel Dialogues Joseph pedantic put large North Carolina two thousand twelve says that added. MITERS each poem into the next with precision master carpenter in language that move seamlessly often floating from impressionism into a quirky vernacular narrative. Kathy Smith Barney Port Lord North Carolina two thousand ten two thousand twelve says this angel is double tasking sarcastic Yates reading quantum leap trickster. Tiny starts to show reading poem that is one of his signature pieces, the girl and the yellow rancor. Girl in the yellow ribbon of. Way On the sidewalk. Outside my window. Flower in her hair. Third sell or is focused suffered some officers, Kinda? Say. He's just not move. She Smile Labor. Or have she plays the cello and she is humming board silently making the bow ripples with her tongue. Or maybe. She waits for a bus to take her to her lover or she has read a letter from Paris or assemble, and she smells coffee and chestnut same roaster. and to hear the streets in cries vendors under the age for bridget. She's just a girl. Standing in the rain by stone bench in the early morning well, the streets Sean. It is nothing you are. Why I we? Were there. In. My. Prom. and. Why do I send here long? Law After she Hey listeners. Before we dive into the interview here, I'd like to thank you for taking. Some, your valuable time. Listen to this episode today really appreciate it. I'd also to let you know a couple of benefits available to our listeners show notes of this episode with. Links and information about the authors are available at Charlotte Readers PODCAST DOT COM. Also, if you'd like to support your favorite local independent bookstore and get audiobooks at the same time. You can join Libro DOT FM that's Ella. FM and if you use the Promo Code Charlotte reader, that's all one word. Be From Charlotte but you can still be charlotte reader to get this benefit and use that Promo Code we're going to get to books of the price of one. When you join it Liberals forty-nine monthly membership will this great way to support your benefit bookstore and get the great audiobooks at the same time? Oh and speaking of audiobooks, and now that it's already nvember at Christmas is around the corner I'd like to but you know that my three Brooks and the Christmas court of Trilogy or now. Audio books and you can find all three wherever you like to get your audiobooks, and also at Libro Dot, FM I'm really excited about the fact that I connected. With. Actor. In La. Just, the narrator for the series has named this bill, a Jones he's best known. For his role as Rod Remington. Fox. TV's. Glee. He's also appeared a number of other Shows days of our lives it king of claims the drew Carey show and much much more. He's really funny guy and he's He's singers well, and he does justice to the series this across Nakas Vinnie. Miracle Thirty Four Straight Can Listen to all three audio books wherever you like audio books or you can get the I e book for free by signing up for our email list. Or pretty much when is retail site now and the other two books listening audiobook. Get those two for the price of one if you joined Labor Dot FM with that Promo Code. Charlotte reader all, work. That's it. I've got a little bit more about the author and then the interview more ratings and the writing life segment. So. Enjoyed, when are the two thousand, Fifteen North Award for literature from the State of North Carolina. Anthony Tony Abbott is the author of seven books of poetry, two novels and four books of literary criticism. The Angel Dialogues is the recipient of honorable mention in the two thousand fifteen. Brockman Campbell competition of northbound poetry society. If words could save us was co winner in the same competition in two thousand twelve. Tony's literary. Awards are numerous detailed in the show notes for this episode. Is. Currently the Charles, a Dana Professor of English Emeritus Davis in college in recent inductee into North Carolina Literary Hall of fame. Tony Welcome to the show. Thank you her name was. Congratulations on being inducted into northland leary. Is quite an honor. And I feel. Very special for me because. It puts me in a group of people that I admired greatly respect frankly and. My fellow writers in North Carolina. Were very special honor for me to. been selected for her. Induction. So. How did you feel tiny when you first heard the news that you've been? Selected for this honor. I. Felt. About, Reynolds. Price. On the. Wool. Les Smith. Those people who are in they seem to me to be a really great writers and I, didn't feel like that was quite in the same class as those people. Elected to the hall of fame. Mesa feel are a special part of the company of those wonderful writers and our as I felt in my heart was. Klay remarkable honor. It is remarkable honor and listeners. Let me just tell you little bit. We got planned today you're in for a real treat a tiny going to read some of his poetry today from the numbers collections. We're GONNA, talk about this poems and like all episodes Schroeder's podcast. WE'RE GONNA be getting into the writing life discussion. With Tony and I'll be asking him questions that maybe he'll share his secrets with us but but. But I but I Tony Given your journey from where you started as a young boy to now inducted into the. Hall of Fame I. Like to talk with you a bit about your life's journey. Okay. So You. As a young boy did you ever envision? They one day. You will be receiving this kind of honour. Well You have to know. The first. The first real. That I rose. Were in the. Nineteen seventies? and. My career as a writer. Really began. With my writing of a short story. which is called the weekend. I've started writing short stories implying. When I was really. In my in my forty. Has a child or I grew up in Norwalk Connecticut. I was born in San Francisco up in New Orleans, Connecticut and my mother has left my father in California and moved to Connecticut remarried. And There were a series of incidents in the family which caused the family break up. And I was nine years old in nineteen, forty, four, the family literally broke up. and My mother who had a drinking problem moved to new. York stepfather moved from New York sister who was in a just graduate. Moved to New York and what do you do with a nine year old boy? And the answer is I had a fairy godmother. And My godmother pay for my education and I was the boarding school. And that became my life. My school became my home and I was very very, very good in school. And I went from one school to another boarding schools in college to Graduate School and I spent my whole Trimbe working on research. And criticism. And I've got a pay in. English. The like it become an English teacher. Think about writing saw really it's about becoming a teacher. And teaching as a college level. Rather than becoming a poem or fiction. That was really. Court of the second half of my life. Yeah you've. You've written at age of nine. Your family dissolved that took to put it in more dramatic turn. Your mother shot your stepfather didn't kill him. You said, but it was the end of the marriage. He was. He was a lawyer moved to New, York? Your mother went to the hospital. They sent you to boarding school and as you wrote in the novel leading Maggie Hope You know you talk about this. Use were sort of. I guess required to. Grow up at a very early age. Yeah. True. Love things that I would do. I would never know where I was going to go corvee Keisha. I really didn't like case like school and school everything was clear. If he is this, you've got this reward. He's not. He's not that punishment and you know exactly where he's still what was going on. Vacation I know anything because there's no what to expect. So I didn't know where I was going to go and so I had. This feeling that I have. Care of myself and what happened is I would often go to my stepfather to New York and then a very early age learn the new. York subway system. And I could travel around the say left me as I was old enough. I can't remember what age that was. Then to let me I would go from my stepfather's to my mother's my sisters, all of whom were in New York and I would go by subway from one place to another. And I. I always. Very early age felt what to be able to take care of myself and that's why I'm very good direction. 'cause you know where I am and how to get to the next place but. True, that was well before fans and satellites that helped you get around the Nah Nah Tony You said speaking of subways and traveling and trains, and that kind of thing he said that one of the single most Dramatic events in your childhood involved a weekend opponent that you're going to read just a minute. which aren't a pass from boarding school. In which you're going to go visit your mother and you were supposed to meet her at Grand Central Station Castle Yeah. What happened? Well she wasn't there. I was at a school in Massachusetts. For Pay School and call lulls school in a novel. Message. Is Nice. Gone Training. Framingham Massachusetts. Trains in new. York because I had earned a weekend birth like doing a good thing. And like I walked the ramp. Outside the game and she wasn't there. And eventually what happened. And I called my sister. Was Living in New York and it just got married recently. And she sent her husband down. The up aggressive session. The weekend with like sister and never did see my mother. And Later she told me she never got my letter. Saying I was coming. You know the thing about writing is says. You'd never know what the truth is the truth can vary. Depending on who tells the story I just found this very interesting thing me. I just found out are just a few years ago from. My good friend of Herrell Hamilton, who was a fellow student. Pay, school. That's when I got back from that weekend. School. On the next. Monday. One of the one of the teachers school took me down town you get a milkshake and when I was downtown getting a milkshake. Yeah. The meaning of the whole school talks about weekend. And he says this must never happen again. because. In question is, who's Holt was wasn't my mother's flow. Was If my full her half. Was this school fall or half or was it? We would we all share in that fall And the until the truth is very complex and the in my novel I don't deal with all those I didn't know that. All I knew was my mother's in So. That was a very. Powerful and scary moment. Grand. Central. Station. Roy Looks Up. As it star in the Upper Concord. Usually is in tramps. By the way, they make the shapes of creatures and if they cure. Others and bears employ or. Has No arts for them. Ways it on the bench by thirty two or half an hour. Is Watch for his mother's route coat. Torn him the white scarf she where rainy day. Is Starting to cry. And he does not like to cry at all in scares him here among strangers. US. Colder Hotel. Woman has. That she was out. Perhaps. She's on her way caught in the swirl late afternoon traffic of crush of trucks and multicolored cab yellow green chequered. Or perhaps. Subway traps I read lice between station. WHITES IS I. Tanker chip. Then, he feels the first time. I see touch of Jeff. She will come at all. She will never come and they mike sit on this. Bench until he grows all still she will not come. She will never know. Counted on this small good times between them. Time that will never be. You Stand Puts his tears. Away. In the pocket reviews handkerchief. The class food. Will requested schedule. He will go back to school. You will collect his as. And spreads. Them. Smooth of of Retard. He will live. Now Tony what I've. Learned about this particular upon what you said about it before particularly this line. he put his tears away in his pocket and Y-, and with his used handkerchief, you're actually making a transition at that point in your life. The. Last stands of the poem. Talks, about it to where you're going to go back, you going to collect your as you're going to. Spread them on the smooth palm, your heart and you're going to live, and so you decided I think to try to put away the emotion. And move forward. Exactly I think that's. and when I when I was. Elected by the state. Were with North Carolina. Award in literature, they made a five minute video and I talked about the video What I did is I'm not going to be emotional I'm not going to be vulnerable can't afford to. Think. Scary. So I have to take care of myself, Roy, distance myself and applied myself I like you collected is as. and. So I decided I would try to be the very best person I could be school. And I did that when I want to then went to school in Connecticut. And this is the same thing. Of. And of And was. Then and I went to Harvard. Graduate School I got my pitch. And then we moved to Davison. Nineteen sixty four. For my second job, my my first job. The. Collagen. May. Sound moved to Davis in the nineteen. Sixty seven. Our daughter dies. Very suddenly from encephalitis and. I have no way. Of, dealing emotionless with her desk because I had put my tears away in my back pocket. With my And I literally I couldn't cry. Though from about nineteen, sixty, seven to. The early to mid seven do. I have to re and then myself and rediscover my feeling. Which I had put in my back pocket. because. You having a PhD as the worst preparations possible for the writing of poetry because they're two. Different kinds language you know what I meant and other words near since scullery language of research and literary criticism. The language of poetry comes from the horror for all from the feelings. And I had to. Find those again. That leads you to writing a poem that you're well known for the girl in the yellow raincoat, but you read at the start of this show. you said, it took many years feed right that poem was to raw at the time that your daughter died. You can ride it. Talk about talk about how you were finally able to write this poem and what prompted you to ride it. Rose One. Would have been acing. Had a freshman writing Class Davis College. And there was a rural class who? lost. Her mother. And Rainy Day she wore a yellow Ranko. Of. And I kept thinking that she is exactly the same age. My daughter would have been a a freshman at full. And she might have gone Davison and. Then in that riding class. So, point was really about my daughter rather than about the girl in the yellow, Ranko. Girls. You'll ranked copay chain but. My daughter and I began to try to imagine. What my daughter might have been like. At the age of eighteen. And the wonderful thing about employment nothing really nothing in the point actually. Happens literally. I wasn't daring out the window, the girl who was standing on the street. Play. The. Cello. imple- all of that were I imagine. At, one I wanted to create. A Character of girl in yellow raincoat. For a model for or my daughter might have been at she'd been at age. And the that was the. Experience. Why do I send your long long after she is on Her because. He's thinking about that was. Though I mean, I, think eventually. Electric. You're going to find the word. We talk about things which would otherwise not talk about. So. Tony when you read this poem aloud as you did earlier in the show here. Is it hard? Does it bring back certain feelings? Are. Time I rather. Wasn't Weymouth Center. I had to get up and read it as weymouth. was very, very, very difficult. And very, very, very emotional reading. Whether as time went by I became more and more. able to read this without. Tearing up. and. So the the answer is, yes. It was a very, very difficult emotionally experience. Reading on the first time. But I think time allows us to develop. Greater sense of of of. Satanic you talked about after this. Defining moment in your life or your mother did show up you're wanting to get the as and received you go to Princeton you get the Ph d from Harvard you teach at Bates for three years you come to Davidson College in nineteen sixty four was actually a Davidson from nineteen seventy, five to nineteen, seventy, nine, but Somehow or other I I didn't end up in your class I'm looking at a picture of you under a tree at Davidson here. It's on your. it's I think it's in that video that you talk. And you've got six students sitting around your own, the quad. We're looking at a young Tony Abbott here leaning over and I'm just making headed I missed that class and. What. Made you go outside? What'd you do outside well. Class. Outside. The weather. Got I. Would always say, can we go outside and the you know the answer to the question was if you said, no, they would think were present whole study. So if you want it to be. have. A sense of identity identification with a student. You have to go outside when it was nice and A. Classes outside were never as good as classes inside because they were very pleasant. They were lovely. You know what they were. They were lessons distraction. When? Especially in the screen was the tradition. In to go outside or certain. And the. Those I usually does. Well, that's great. Too I WANNA, decided to listeners to that that video, which is on your website There's a link to it in the show notes for this episode, he really is worth watching you can. Hear a little bit about Tony's life and some of the things that he's done. So I commend that till you let's let's read a couple more points before the break airless Let's go to a small thing like a breath and You can set that up and. Read it you ready. The name of my second book. Small thing crap. And that's the titles point. James, and robber. Are and they are my twins grandson. And they were born in Nineteen, ninety, two I I wrote this. On them. And then the point is only one one baby didn't need to. Say say we're twins they were born. I remember going up to. Where my favorite born and they were move cross. And going into the neonatal intensive care and seeing them. As tiny babies. Though this is. The context of the plan. Small thing like a proud. Chief for car. How easy to say I love you knowing that even the surface of her word? How easy to say I for you knowing that even the icy edge of death not even his outer garment. Then, you bear a child. Carry on life in the darkness is your room for nine uneasy. Child send bumping the fragile edges of in some form go against walls of your. Phone. Enters the world wailing. Or time. Machines help him breathe you cannot hold him because of the wires the. Monasteries Vital Function And Yousef by his side, give him your finger to whole. And you watch his tiny her hopefully form nails crawl around you. And that's many hours you weren't still not tired not finished morally as a wonder you have created. And you know that you could these woods guy there's some. Glorious heartbreaking selfish. Youthful on. Every night you continue to marvel week after week month after month every night before slave. Filling into his room but listen. Small Breath and watch the weight and he seems to smile and how it's. Her upper. And later. You'll keep pictures. You will mark as first step the ORFORD rounded shapes of his first letters. You will shout with joy I line dry. And cry for the pink cotton. Shape makes. Some rule. On Easter. And when he hurts. You will. Of. Pain for his pain takes you in his arms and rips like icy night. then. When you speak a love there. You must do so library. Without as an Hussy. Or small thing. Gra. Tony US wonderful I'm just thinking about how fast time flies and how fleeting life is from the time that your child is first born until the. Time that they're out into the world beyond. A lot of a lot. Of requests. People. Like Reproduce his Philemon. Women. Who are pregnant with? And the one. And it's kind of funding the sensor since. right about the bearing of a child even though I'm. A male and not female I think is think poetry because tries to allow. You get into the. Characters and the. Healing of people who are different from our so. It's like my coin which we probably will do of a man who loved news. Because I'm I'm not that man, but I feel like I can understand him try to write from his point of view. On our right from. The of view, the woman. But all that stuff about the machine is the sensors I got from curling visit the twin. Twin Neonatal. Carrier Okay. Thank you for to meet Aretha. Yeah. Thank you rating it. So listeners just what we're GONNA. Do we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we are going to hear that poem the to the Tony mentioned the man who loved music it's it's a wonderful piece very moving. We're also going to talk about the Angel dialogues, which is an interesting book about an angel the. The befriends. The poet and SORTA? Gives. A hard time and we great point from that. We're GONNA do the writing life segment. We've got one final piece too. So please stay with us. I listen as I like to share some information with you bet to four organizations are important players in our literate community and They're also supporters of the podcast. Spark Publications Charlotte Let Charlton Writer's Club North, Carolina riders? Network. Spark publications is one of our early supporters and they have been sending me some wonderful authors with some well-designed books. They are an award-winning Independent publishing firm helps authors bring their work life. There were strategically with their authors to complete their manuscript on their covers books. For marketability rich to their aspirations. PM's Auburn Congress numbers proof-read managed options. Market and much more. Find out more about how you can publish nonfiction book for the sport of an experienced team checkout spark publications dot com. Charlotte lit otherwise known as Charlotte Center for Literary Arts is an organization in which I'm member it's a nonprofit art center. Whose mission is to celebrate the Literary Arts but educating and engaging writers. Raiders through classes, conversations, and community. I really enjoy participating in those classes. By themselves and I do too is valued vital part of a Charlotte Arts community and become a mere creative writing center for the region you find out more about them and how to participate at. Charlotte. Dot War. For Ninety years, the Charlotte Writer's Club has continued to offer supportive ride environment in the Greater Charlotte community. I was a board member of that Organization for a few years recently. Real, enjoyed participating that way, and also in their regular meetings, their contests in their community organizations, they offer a month newsletter. Monthly. Meetings speakers, our speaker chairman to. They do critique groups, open mics, and. Offer writing. In wedding contests. You'll find out more about Charlotte Rogers Club at Charlotte Writer's Club Dot. War. I'm also a member on riders network They offer six annual competitions, three annual conferences and I think of attended all three of those many online classes. At critiquing editing services for their members. They serve over fourteen hundred members in North Carolina and beyond. All genres and all levels of experience with all manner publishing credits. To find out more about the. Network checkout in see writers dot war. As a writer reader, I have benefited from participating in all three of these riding organizations. Shaun Ryder's Club Charlotte let and North Ronaldo's network. It's been a great experience for me. I've also enjoy collaborating with spark publications meeting and interviewing authors licking their found work. If you'd like to check out what each of these sports has the offer good our show notes scuttle the bottom and you'll find information vanish one links and also. A Promo Code. Listeners I'm back with Tony Abbott. He is the two thousand twenty inducted into North Lettering Hall of fame we're talking. About his life about his poetry we've got more poetry in this episode today from this very talented rider Tony you got this piece that you limited before the break it's called. A man who loved music talk about that poem in Western inspired that. Nine eleven. I remember. Going to New York. And going to the Hustle Fourteenth Street for a many many of the people who are injured in nine eleven were taken care of. And on the wall, the hustle were these. Posters with pictures of the missing people where the people, relatives and friends of the missing were asking if anybody. When you think about that line was very moved by seeing those. Pictures. and they appear and they appear in the point and I read that story about your decision from juilliard and I was so moved by story one is hell and story This isn't a book called the man who? And every time in that both begins with the word a man who Neither in the title. For example, and this point in a man who loved news not. The first line is carrying his violin in the arm or. Title. Come. As words the man who every title has were starts advance who and what I'm trying to do that. To. Have all kinds of different men who? Until. There's this. Get away from just writing about myself. Riding about other people who I find interesting and broadening my my phone. From being merely autobiographical. Pressing my my my response to the light a world around the. Man Who loves music. Terry is file of the armory near ground zero. He was from juilliard. Where music is life. When playing better the next musician. More important than who were important. On the walls of the armory. Poster. Thousands of posters. Of missing smiling. And, were all young. Maria Ramirez. Tell from her graduation role. He saw the face of Angela Susan Peres. Hundred first floor tower they. Saw Jovic Yano and Carol, rutten La, and pull or to you junior ohlinger savy. How could music health in a time like this you wonder It'd be war within violin into the huge central room. The and his two friends played for our. When it's friends could play a more he's playing alone. Play for the grief counselors or firemen, and cops. Came into rest. Soldiers the fighting findings nine. He. Played. Ball. Jakubowski plays divorce devolve. The theme from Schindler's List. And memory from. Soldiers who had been in the past. He's played. Amazing grace. And then it bit nice. He plays the national anthem. Three hundred men sixty nine stores. And saluted invisible. Is, Hands Tremble replacing violin. Back in the K.. Total walking the dog street. Where does? It can be air. Of the listen they'll small. You would walk home. listers on his hand. Remember. Telling you, that is a particular moving pace you certainly Certainly. Did Justice to the moment. You can really picture this person. not knowing what to do but. To share his music and That's a key in the poem is where he says it was from Juilliard were music reply. Playing. Better than the next vision more important for more important than God and the end of the coin is different person. You realize. Playing better than the next position is not the most important thing. And he's learned to be. A. Deeply passionate human being because he played. This and I'm sure that his life was changed by that I don't know I don't know I've never met. And the. The. You know. Part of what I wrote is imagine like me and part of like all the names of. Missing a real name. Those pictures that I saw. and. She says he so so. The. Everything in the point. I think really hasn't. That's great. So We're going to shift now to To angels and demons as well but and. And you get. This book is called Angel Dialogues. You got a lot of for it. I, mentioned it at the outset of the show. It's a really interesting. Book because it starts out. It's it's almost as if the poet. Is having a conversation. with him or herself, and yet there has someone else present and it's it's angel who? Is I don't know maybe holding the poet check or making the poet Trying to keep the poet on the right track but doing a very sarcastic. Way. I. Mean you start you start out the book and the poet like you know who are you, and the angel says, well, I'm your angel. Angel. Yes your very own and then Y- The post like wait a minute. You know how can this be and and the angel last will don't ask how I just end. That's all. Post like well, that's a lot I mean come on and so. And so you know right away the angel saying don't ask these kinds of questions just be in my presence unless I have a conversation, you go through this book and you have a lot of different conversations. And and we're GONNA have you're gonna read a poem where the Angel Speaks of death but angel doesn't just talk about death angel talks about lots of issues that are on the mind of the poet and I'm wondering. What was going on in your life at the time that you decided to write about An Angel with sort of A. Pressing view of of life and the afterlife. Yeah, I think that When people say who's the malls of the angels? I usually say me. Though is. Very famous. Love. Logo senator. Who is mad over? Loss. I think with the angel allows to do have a dialogue with myself. Poets side and myself, Angel The Angel is supposed to know things. As opposed doesn't know. and My property interesting about writing the. Most wanted I couldn't. I couldn't have the angels hell the poet thing. And I didn't know. or I could. No. Let's see if the policy angel is there life after death? The age. Can't answer that question. Angel Constant Justin Answer. Of So recipes, the angel wants supposed to be a better person. Angels aim all the way through the book is to make some poet of. More, more of A. Human. Being who loved everybody and you can tell in the poet as his main job is, is love everybody and the. Problem with. That is in love with the angel. We loves the angel, but he's not very good and loving everybody. the wonderful on crawls. or Angel speaks of beauty. says. What are you said if people feel they are beautiful I love you. She says. I know you. Know, silly you tell the beautiful ones you love them. Supposed you suppose there ugliness puts you off yet over it all the more reason to love them or if you can't, you can't if you can't then one of my doing here. Don't you Orlean don't you see why I'm here look good makes we are. Now, just go love everyone likes that and then they'll be beautiful just like I have. And that's A. Really important? Point. because. The Angel as always. We're we're setting angels or loss of human beings and serve the function or Rangel's for. During this we heard a lot during this cocoa nineteen. And then about people who have served as angel or other. Health, care workers are sort of serving as angels forest. Is someone who is is great that else plus the. More complete human name. And doesn't mean they have to be serious all the time because the angel you know she she had a good time with her life. You said a minute ago that You don't say anything in these poems that the poet doesn't know, and yet you have a poem called the Angel Speaks of heaven and it's an. Instinct porn because the poet is asking the questions about Heaven Sarcastically, an angel answer, sarcastically we sing hymns and flap our wings and the poet is like what wings wings you earn like in that movie everyone watches at Christmas and you I take care of people like you I, wrestle on announcements. And the post like in heaven you just saying and the poet and the angels yes Pretty Boeing and she says. That's what Mark Twain said I. Liked Him. He was a real is. So. So you're just having a little bit of fun and yet you're trying to. Weave your way into answers right as you're talking to yourself about some of these issues. What they do in heaven say listen. And try to come and help. So I have the angel. The Angel Tree and you look and say of. In the cover. Goal Angels in the trees. On their lips thing, and then there the different angels are sent to different people try to help her. And so that's kind of EMESA. Those Angel Arrives in the angel, the angel has to leave. Because the angel has lots of other people report heroes besides just. Not An attorney Did you have I mean it's all metaphorical or did you yourself? have. Visitation with an angel as you writing this. Well. Though I never visitation with her wasn't angel in the. Literal Sense. I every time. Something would happen and I just think of another angel one. And so she was just kind of around all the time. And so no, I was thinking when I was Playing Bridge Listening Whoopi Mike Athena. Angel Bridge. Now. The No I don't think I. Don't think I have. Liberal visitation. But I think I felt. I felt like the angel was my. My better half. Now. I think one of the Nice things about poetry is then you can ride inside along with yourself. Like feel like she's very she's very real to me even though I can't say that I actually. Well and and some might argue that maybe be better in a different kind of way maybe she. Yeah she appeared into your subconscious she appeared tr. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's let's set up the raid. You're GONNA do from the book year. Angel speaks of death or angel incessant. Phone Where the angel is actually present. It's really yes. She said. winsome word it's really death you're of. UNSAID. Over as she says. We're walking in the white bark was she stops and turns to face me. Look at the where is. Best Nothing. Point Answer What do you mean? The nothing I'm afraid of. Come on. The absolute emptiness of loss of everything all the word, all the beautiful words, moments, the flow of the ocean or White Majesty shifting stars all saved in the mind of swept into predators unity or flower on the vest. I table after the accident all lost without a more no mind no words no site. No touch knows that. Nice. Job She. Smiled showrunner. Do some more. Wait a minute I said this is a tricky Rene Angel. You know about this you must know about, why should I talk help me my angel tell me about death. Am I wrong Gun. How I'd like to be wrong just can't get that that nothing out of my head. We were sitting on the branch of Peace Angling. Don't know how we got here when we. Are Looking so water and ways. I can't tell you. Know Alot. Not Allow what kind of answer is that? True she served. Career. Don't be angry orange. that. Doesn't help. Part of career. I remember. Read in the spring she whis is just is. because. Think about it. As incidents where did you get that? And made it up she. Just speed. Go Maury. Worry for you. And she kisses me once on the cheek. And then the would. Stream. Or wrong. And I am alone. Regard Street. Yeah Tony you start out early in this book having a conversation with angel and the angel comes to the poet. And says that. She's read your poems. And deposed says you read my poem she writes them Oh and she says, you have to trust me and host says what? And she says, don't worry about what I know. I don't know just trust me and the poet says. I'm scared and she talks about the fact that the poet is riding a lot about death. And I'm just curious because you were. Through these dialogues I think perhaps searching for some answers. Are. What so this last poem, the Angel Speaks of death what is your? What's your thought I spend my whole life a practicing Christian. I thought Sundays started teaching Sunday school. When I was at Princeton. And I would go to a little mission church down on route. One antiques some cruel when I went to Harvard I talk some school at Christ church in Rattled Street Cambridge. And then I sent some school Davidson? Ever since I've been here and the. I was. I. Been. Believer. Well I feel like Feeling that there might be nothing is little ways than Dow's. No matter how much reliever you are. until I voiced doubt in this. And I want an answer to that out. And then much face as you have. Doubted always still there. Though. Three answers. One is there's nothing there's. Everything is good. And referred to answer is. Things are good and some things are best. There's the whole business of health having an help And I think when I you know unlike. When it says, uh, no worry God Maury for you. In other words just be. The A. Loving person. The Angel tells of. A loving parts of everybody. Especially, those who are not beautiful. And you don't have to worry about that 'cause there's nothing you can do about it. It is what it is. Just says. No. When it's frame doesn't think about it business. Just. I think that's probably the answer the angels trying to give him. That's great and it's Still a little bit of writing life tiny. And I want to pick up here because. The Angel talks about the fact that She watches you write that she is sort of your Muse and You take issue with that in the poem that not necessarily And I'm just wondering Do you think of your Muse as sort of. Spiritual Nature Angelic in nature or what do you think about the fact that he's idea? I think. There are. That's one. Of The news, I think individual people can be. Or Surf periods of time. So that. For example you i. mean you read about a approach? Discovers the work of another. And that is so moving. That's. The News for the or somebody that you love be. Friend can become immune. Between when you don't, you don't have users. Don't. Necessarily right. You don't feel. Right. News on all the way through my coach. And Nineteen Ninety Eight, we like dump Sabbatical and Western. Turkey Israel. Egypt Greece Italy. And I was teaching. Davison their. Renewed a four. Key country. Of the calls the cradle of the world. And when I travel, we traveled in these countries that travel became my news and I wrote a lot of really. Good points about these places in about art and about. Things that we saw thinking that we. And then commanding. You know the. Worst thing you can do. Is Not to have a life. Of. Writing is not about writing necessarily writing is about living. In the more deeply as fully you live. The more you're able to write. and. I thought the I I saw. Angel was going to be my last love. Recover to twenty fourteen while I was done. Is like. When they began to move along. Or? As we got into this. Coast and That's what we know. A lot of time now, I can't go anywhere can't do anything. So I went back through all all my filed once. Computer and I run up every point that I still haven't my computer. Has published. And I came up with about ninety point. That I live over the years. And then I look for centers on how refunds who read. Request through them and we try to which. Should go in. The book that I'm working on now. And the fame. There's a theme that runs through the whole of which is. Living The left part of your life. From the time you retire. until the time that you die. And how stay Alive Even though you feel your life is in many ways diminished. One of the things that happen when. You will. Retire. Don't do it in your life since to become smaller. And you don't want to let that happen though. Of. The point about trying to find joy in the power. Even. Diminish. Stake As doing the left part of our life. And I realized I've been writing about this for the last. Twenty year. Basically. I'm retired from Davidson. In two, thousand one. Early retired. The last twenty years. Of. And so really that's what this for. is about feeling with? 'CAUSE I got my identity through the Collins. Teaching. And I missed the. Turn you mentioned teaching by the way your advice. Is Well, taken. I. Think there there can be three chapters or four chapters are six chapters and or more people's lives and every chapter I think is worth. Paying attention to like you mentioned You know it's it's retirement, but it's something else perhaps Keeping you engaged, but as a teacher What what drew you I mean. I. Think you mentioned that you always admired your teachers when you're in school and you became a teacher yourself what was it about teaching Tony that That you got out of as a person because you know you give us a teacher but what were you getting in return? Well What? You're getting as. Tremendous Joy. The joy of teaching itself. In good teachers just love. Being in the classroom and To me talking about. Is really important because. It's really mice courage will life. They. Fascinated by religion. And I've done a number of courses Davidson the. Case Religion Literature, mix them together, and then of course. Larry O'Connor Frederick Nerve Walker. Percy of Christian writers who write. Comic novels. Find I get much more out of. Being, in the classroom, we're playing students and talking about novels made much more exciting than being in church. As a form of spiritual. Exercise. Explore. Questions that they're exploring or two maybe great novels. Of course in of then walk on miscall. Letter. Great now always feel with the profound issues and the nothing question in Hawthorne. who were what does have supreme representative who worked appeared and represent and they? Exploring those issues to. Make Great. Joy. You. Say and you have dialogue wasn't in the dialogue his. The Class so Important In a lot of. Pleasure. You were a bluff teacher, David? Son. Students really love being part of your classes I know you've taught courses Semester long courses and workshops and everything writing poetry. But can you just give us a glimpse into since I've got an inductive here until the Litter Hall of fame? Can you give us a glimpse into what Tony Abbott does when he sits down to write a poem? I'll. Try not to write his down. Too soon. Of. When I? Sit down. The right of coin is because in my head when my heart I know that say this is employment are right. Away I know and I carry is for some time. Maybe months at a time and work on is in my head. They don't want to write it down to so. When I read it down. I don't. I don't really five as much as a lot of. 'cause I've already got a lot of revising before I've actually written about. And Lamont. Yours, talks about shitty first drafts. I don't necessarily right. Should of stress because her stress? I'm really I might be. Going through all sorts of. Of. I kinda like that like carrying the point around. And when I'm walking, I can work on the points in my head. Sometimes, they'll have certain lines are all Of Peace in my head for a long time. And then the. Developmental write it down. I'm a writer of Shitty I asked. But I come back and try to fix some lighter and I think it's great that you can. You can do that. You can keep that in your head and put something on paper like that I. DO think though you've probably learned some. Some techniques and some lessons over the years whether it be about craft or about the psychology riding and I'm wondering With. All your years of experience Tony. What would you tell your younger writing self something. That you have learned about yourself as a rider that if you could have imparted that knowledge to the younger Tony, it might have helped him along the way. Were I mean. Writing, is clearly. Form Of. Don't writing. I book I started to write was the workers came And I have never ridden about my child over. Of. So when I realized was. Time. I wrote lady my you know. Like Of. My mother died when I was fifteen. And I really didn't know anything about it. I didn't know. Didn't know much about my father I didn't know much learning but my mother, I, knew very little. I was at forty school. It was a lot going on in New York. I didn't know much about my sister. Offenses say that now. I'm of which I knew all his stuff. Then I know almost nothing I can't find out anything about my mother's life. Now. It's too late because there's nobody knows anything. Less person. Realizing. Really. Sister. And I never got that information from her. To me. Writing as a way. Discovering covering. Reliant. People were very important in your life which you would not otherwise have done. And I what I would say to the young writer is doing do now do it now before it's too late because the information may not be available for you. You wait too long. So, there's two extra writing one is detected. Swept Technique I'm very consciously trying to get sound and the music. The poetry is not just about content. It's also about Being able to use words in a way that. Powerful. And the music of words in the right were put together and things like alliteration. And Rhyme. And Horrible poetry. You know it's not like people think that you could write poetry without reading any. Wouldn't be an artist he didn't study art. Musicians studied music. And I think one of the things. Is Important not only. Narrow. Content of. Skill using the language. Of. Two things were when emphasize Roller process. Lens Express that s you. Know what you'RE GONNA SAY Before you write them then the joy of Ryan than. Taking away because writing in the. Exploration. Of Your. Discovery of something rather than employees. REPETITION. Something already know. So Tony One last question before we have a foul reading here from you. You've had a long career as a writer you're still riding as you said. How would you like to be remembered as writer? You know I never go. Let's say you ask the question and that's kind of fun as someone who owns. Health. People. Believe laws. Her plus were in some way changed or affected goodbye by reading Michael. Very. She's telling you that screen That's that's a great inside. We have one last poem here that you're gonna read It's called Genesis And it's it's it's Nice because you know we've been talking about the angel dialogues and now we're gonNA. Talk about The world itself and God is a whole and that kind of thing. So. Tell US briefly Rebecca here, and then you can read that to bring this to a close. Early Great. Genesis within my my. My third vote. The search for a wondering cradle world seasoning Katie at my son and daughter-in-law I wrote on for their wedding. And I read I read that's a wedding. And Put it in the frame hanging their house. and. The. figure the only way I could figure out and make it fun workers out to God. Wants been one that's of. Genesis. Swing, more than master maker of cool court shifted in eventually heaven and said. I need me some music. For Sky was full of. Declares that it was good. And then the equally androgynous Lord sets of herself. I need some light hill of fragrant fingers of. The Water Schoenberg light and she declares that it was good. And when the light and music play together stars west of the beauty of. The, swinging singing Lord says. Need. Me Some people to praise his thing that I have made. Lord Ball and laws about what sort of people might be purist Fraser what sort of people might truly see the light and made man for his cunning brain major newspapers in the L. can swift running low for man the Wonderbra. and. She made woman with imagining mind and the wrong limber dancing legs and there is and so the Colorado life. And when the man and woman has been crashes. Laura declared that it was good. And the man heard the life in the woman is. And the woman saw the music. Man Mine. Workers Silky Mane Violins, and the light was like the last require. The clitoral Qatar. And the man and the woman move original music. And swayed to the golden amber really is alive. And they knew. Sound with neither his or her. Like anything that ever was before. And the Lord of they have made. The whole. It was very good. Nice that's wonderful, and in fact, this episode has. been very good as well. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your your life story to to read some of your poetry. Thank you so much for being a part of the. PODCASTS. Enjoy the with you. Harder classes. Reema cartoons. Prejudice reworked. So. Well, that's it. For today, another found author giving voice to the written words next Tuesday we'll have another in-depth episode with readings and conversations about the written word and the writing life of a local or regional author before then be on the lookout for another under the covers episode where we do much the same thing we do here but quicker and sometimes away from the studio because there are. Just too many good authors and not enough time. If you like what we're doing, please consider leaving a short written review on Apple podcasts or the podcast platform of your choice because when you do our authors, voices travel much farther and wider in podcast land, and if you're inclined to help US Cup, authors give voice to the written words and you'd like some member only content cultivate buyer authors. Thanks please consider becoming a member supporter. You can find out how to become a member supporter and more about today's show and all previous episodes at Charlotte readers podcast dot com keep up with news about the show joining our email list and engaging with us on social media. We promise not to Spain the because well, that takes too much time, and if you do join our email list, we'll give you free e book written by me. Thank you for listening. We really appreciate it until next week I'm Landis way for Charlotte readers podcast. Charlotte readers podcast is a member of the twin city podcast network powered by Arthur Carolina now, offering video visits. So you can take control of your orthopedic care from the comfort of your home schedule online at Ortho CAROLINA DOT COM, Ortho, Carolina, you improved.

Tony One Angel Dialogues Tony Abbott writer Charlotte North Carolina Rene Angel New York Davidson York US Connecticut Graduate School Charlotte Mecklenburg library Writer Emeritus Davidson professor of English Whoopi Mike Athena
"Distant Relatives: Special Edition Ghana"

💎Run The Jewelz Show💎

1:01:50 hr | 9 months ago

"Distant Relatives: Special Edition Ghana"

"The y'All heard the intro was a little bit different this Sunday afternoon. Of Sunday evening a we are of course A. Special treat for this very special edition of the run the Jews bid cast podcast series. This is episode sixty four. I'm your host King Jews on Julian Smart Rumble. Hailing out of Atlanta. Georgia. But my very special guest in cousin is hailing all the way in west Africa in a Krog Donna you are in for a treat of those that are of course here in the US, are you will be hearing straight from someone who has all the way across the globe in West Africa in Accra Ghana to be exact on this is again a distance relatives a special edition. With my very special guests of a WHO is a cousin in not just a guest of mine. She's GonNa be drop in a heavy jewels on when it comes to life abroad living abroad in the family values of that she holds a sacred to her and being in. West Africa, and so we are here with none other than my special guest. In cousin, a Tony Isadora smart of who is an attorney she's a legal professional she's influence or in most importantly she's a mom in a a we are going to be diving in a to her story living abroad and also in being all the way in West Africa, and so Tony, can you introduce yourself to those that are tuning in this evening? Show. Good evening to the end, and though you are technically a distant cousin, you few very close tonight and as we see now, welcome home speaking of bullets eleven thirty at night and we say Hian Ghana Akaba which is tree for welcome. I am a I'm a lawyer and an accountant and mother of two boys, one age twelve and another age full. And originally hailed from the republic. Of Trinidad into Beagle. Left. There at age eighteen and I studied in Canada and England, and then I lived in the French Caribbean for seven years in Australia for a few years and NAM in Ghana. Absolutely. So Ya hearing upper my cousins mouth as she's a woman that has traveled abroad, and also a has lived by way of Trinidad and Tobago on. So she's of Chinese descent. So shout out to all the West Caribbeans in West in West indies of that are representing on the live this evening or that we'll be watching the replay a we are in for a treat she's actually literally are tuning in from across. Ghana. Right. Before midnight I told my cousin had to have her own the arts, TJ. Bid Cast podcast series a she was a graces enough to allow. US to receive her right before midnight in Accra Ghana against us not in states y'all. So we are in for a treat and so Tony tell them a little bit about your your background I know you said, of course, you were born in Trinidad but tell them a little bit about how how you got into of being in a in an attorney and accountant or even even mom tell us about your story a little bit. Okay well. I come from a long line of legal professionals on both sides of my family. My GRANDFA is doors smarts was solicitor general, and then went into private practice upon retirements. My Father Anthony is not was a attorney general my maternal grandfather Joseph Rafael Thomas was also a solicitor in private practice. Who handed over all give off of the practice to the spot side of the family when he might reach to. Canada. My great grandfather, my mother's side On my grandmother's side maternal grandmother's side. He was a judge in colonial -ties. Sued. George Campbell deed. He actually think wrapped up his career or near wrapped up his career I'm not quite sure but I know he was the chief justice of the Gold Coast which was what Ghana was cooled. Before independence so you know. I'm coming home in more ways than one. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, and So, law sort of comes naturally to the family. The about ten of us that are lawyers serve that are live today. From the smart side from the other side this one cousin I think yet, he's a lawyer in La. And So. I always wanted to read law and I wanted to do it at the London school economic semi got acceptance out of high school. But my parents had I've two brothers and you know they had two other children to educate and at that point in time at won a scholarship. To this Canadian University and is very rare for candidate to give scholarships. It was just that the town this university is in is is twinned with port-of-spain, which is the capital of Trinidad's to commemorate the twentieth anniversary, the twenty, the offered a scholarship to one student I applied. I was very good at accounting and finance and decided to pursue it at this university which had a which is well-known fits accounting program. And so I that I and then reapplied the Alyce to read law and the afterwards, and then I got closer to the BAH in. England and then admitted to practice in Madden Tobago so they. Love it I love it that that's a tremendous journeys shutout onto all those tuning in debt practice of the legal profession you heard from my cousins mouth Tony. She along with a good amount of our family members do again practice a law or in some form of a white collar profession in. So we definitely have to represent in regards to education, which we're going to dive right into 'cause I know you and I are we are very much. So firm believers when it comes to not just having a traditional education but even having a global education so that you can have a global mindset. A global perspective talk a little bit about the difference between the education system in across on where you are in Ghana to be specific of verses of being either in TNT or even in some of other places that you've resided him. Okay, well, I'm I'm speaking from my limited experience or. Just knew that of not generalizing with respect to all of across. Because I spent about seven years of sue in French Caribbean. My sons have spent most of their lives educated in the French system. When I moved to Ghana I, put my eldest son because he plays for instruments into Ghana International School, which is a school that Kofi Annan attended were. Simply because I told the school on their music program seemed far more developed than that of the local Bala leading French International School so I'm. France has these international schools world. and. So it's very easy to educate a child. If you travel in the French system if a system system you subscribe to, but I put his into, it's called I. On he was there for a year and it is very, very similar to that of Trinidad into Beagle. Being a former British colony as well. So there's one took home six their exams at the end of home five it's it's very similar. There's a house system that uniforms. Yes. So it was great for me because it was as close as he could get to attending Trinidadian unto balloon school with Tobago. Having lived in Australia just before in Sydney. Just before moving to Ghana. What I really appreciated about this he was he was no longer minority was no longer a minority of color at the school in fact, he was part of the majority. And? So. That was really important. So I didn't have to educate him about who who fan was or even. Jesse James. comple- rights, and Axel still have to educate the history of. Our history. That's what ticket on Hiti, our history that's ticket to the Caribbean. But relax fears. A whole I didn't have to educate him on what was brilliant when we moved here not-so-brilliant was it was year last year cooking undyed. Not to attend his funeral. And what my son was able to witness was dropping off at the state funeral and then heading to school and ended up being in Koo Finance. House. You. Will. So there it's very similar but there are some significant differences that I think are cultural and especially with the proximity of Ghana. On the UK being much closer than the UPN Caribbean Malaga underprivileged Ghanaian still send their children to school in the UK to Boarding Schools? You see an exodus said about thirteen between thirteen and fifty. Of Children leaving to be educated in England whereas in Trinidad due to the shed distant some other cultural differences you don't see that anymore that used to happen in my parents generation and then a few in my generation but generally. Children in Trinidad educated, they have anti up primary school and high school education in Trinidad Unwell when you live on a small island if you have. To study abroad there's only one way to go on that's off of it. That's where many would leave for for two she education. While for those that are just in you are in for a treat on. This is a very special guests and also a cousin of Mine Tony Isadora Smart. she has hailing all the way out of West Africa currently right now, we wanna say almost midnight if not already midnight 'cause you can tell us what time it is over there in the second but she's in across Ghana Ya in West Africa, sharing the Jews of wisdom which you all on the Sunday evening on. This is episode sixty, four distant relatives in the special edition hailing out of Ghana West Africa we're going to give some quick shoutouts caused before we pick back off with. Shout out to a Justin Nets tuning in a shot to be w a raven, we appreciate Johnson Shoutout to a Harlem zone lyric Yolanda Chen's shots, shots, anesthesia Kara Dion shot APP to d w DWI shots, agenda Tabitha, and shout out to Germany for tuning in early off, we appreciate jaw hanging with us on this Sunday Evening is already to be a new Dan in Ghana with my cousin Tony Isadora smart who is here? To show you all why it's important to have family values and also why it's court to travel abroad in especially going to of the motherland West Africa in. So because I know you were speaking directly about a boarding school knows that have been us us born in also US bread but may not a know what boarding schools are and just give them a quick analysis of what boarding schools are in what some of the different traditional schools versus nontraditional schools are. Lab, pointing schools schools where the students board in that they sleep their You know whether they would ask there for the weekend go home on weekends of there for the entire term depends on the individual's situation. Whereas a regular school, the student just attended as a student educated by my cousin he's letting y'all know there is a difference in the US. Be Able to see a lot of boarding schools unless you're going you're going put away from your family sending you off to a a nontraditional boarding school but but. Those those are some things that you wanna be able to know before you go abroad with your family and. Tell them are even in Ghana and then we'll. We'll circle back going to Trinidad like are there international schools that that are basically taught multiple languages a versus just being taught? In, of course, the the native native tongues in in a row or tell us just for those that have not gone to west Africa or or may want to travel air like what are some of the languages and things on separate what the classification of schools are. Okay. So in Ghana, be the like the rest of Africa except the Ethiopia which was nice. They speak their national languages European language actually think maybe Rwanda's has done away with the French. I don't want to A. See that as a fact. As the official language but there are many different tribes that make up Ghana and so a forte African language about forty two African languages spoken. Languages spoken within Ghana. But the one that is used most often is is is a language called tree. It's pronounced tree, but it Spelt T. W. I. However, in Ghana, they're educated in English and the the other languages a spoken languages did not formally educated in them off in A. Row Put Mon- like see one would creole in some countries. Within a cry you can visit Swiss. German. School doesn't International French school. There's is Lincoln, which is an American International School. and. Then they're all of these other prestigious Ghanaian private schools is a secular. Country over but comprised of Christian, and Muslims with I think about seventy percent Christian and thirty percent So So the schools on church-based know whereas in Trinidad, a lot of the prestigious schools sort of hybrid, it's a church B.'s government based. Aspect to to the good ones. Yeah, not necessarily the good ones to the to the hard core academic schools because. Trade schools have schools to you know your your yeah traits, very good schools to so therein lies the difference there many international schools here. Ya. So that's that's something that even myself I'm getting educated about jock only recently traveled to motherland going to Liberia in March. But a my cousin told me is a door smart is in Accra Ghana of those that have not traveled abroad or have not touched foot in Africa. You're in for a treat on hearing directly from my cousins mouth of what is happening on the ground floor. In across in so 'cause talk a little bit about the culture like how was the culture shock when you actually I, know you travel a lot of book before you even resided in in moved to Ghana but like talk about like, were there any a culture shocks that you had to go through the first time that you came to GonNa talk about like that I experience? Okay while I have always wanted to live in. Ghana. Actually. This is a desire that I believe expressed some twelve years ago. And I guess I finally made it here. You know I can't explain why and I didn't even know at the time that McGraw Grandfather was chief justice while. Also, didn't know at the time that I might great grandfather I think he's your great grandfather. San Smart left West Africa from my calculation sometime after. Abolition. Down to Trinidad. I. Think through South America. So this story goes some actually trying to find him and I I. Think I'm going to send you a full to Imke. Don't have that I just got one today over and. At one point in time there was a possibility he may have been gone yet, but now I I think he's from Syria. Left Sierra. Leone. Our Name Smart is in fact African. It's not named that was given to us. As a slave owner, you know designating US naming us off to him it is in fact the name of a free. African. But yes, there would be some European influence there. While I'm. Still GonNA is shockingly very much very similar to Trinidad Sushi. On my experience, it's it's a population of twenty, five Mil across has about two million people. And Trinidad is a population of one point, five, mill, Trinidad and Tobago. But Ghana Ghana's ruling class and SORTA. Seems smaller than that Trinidad? But the a lot of similarities in that there is a Syrian-lebanese community here like Internet Bagel. some scandal actually with respect to that community arose when Anthony Bodine think a few episodes before he died came to. Trinidad. And that's actually something you should refer. You should if you have the time you should look at. Where you know the Syrian and Lebanese community comprises comprises about one percent of the population. They said, they made very derogatory comments about the rest of the population because they they came. The excelled in business a trick on it's very similar here. The difference here is that the stern Lebanese have presumed that French here the Lebanese because Ghana this surrounded by French Africa. on the cody. and. Then to go on the other side Banana, then you get to Nigeria right on. So. The combination of Lebanese. muslim-christian whereas in turn onto Beagle it's just Christian mainly. Christian. Lebanese. Syrian. People. So there's that similarity. There's a similarity in terms of the food, this similarity in terms of the music. So for example, I went to listen to some drummers the other day. And they were saved went to Martinique for example, because of Slavery Watt Three people play on three different drums at one point in time for one piece of music one man was playing all three beats on that one drum while frost the middle passage that lasted some six or seven hundred years. And that is what is called the Sean said well in. The, which is a a drumming music at Christmas time in Martinique. So when you come here at the similarities are just tremendous with they also differences. Yeah. Thought, let's talk about when it comes to not. Even, well, before before we even dominant that leads listless talk about 'cause you we were, of course, the ring about this how are the US citizens? That are of course, not from any other international countries like. In. Ghana. Is it true that don't necessarily need to have any passport besides a US a US identification card to get into Ghana rumors through tell us tell us what's going on over there. Not. Very stable stabilized. Economy government. It's in its Fourth Republic military rule is lost in nine hundred and that's something sitting president but west about and others boast about. And when you land in the airport. The airports in Africa much nicer than a lot of the airports in the US to be honest while much much. You have to have your yellow fever caught on you have to have your passport on you. What has to have these in the US, requires a visa to come tournament and to not require visa to come to Ghana. Do, require visa, and then when you walk through, you know you walk through a thermometer sort of bodies which takes your temperature check to see if you're ill or any of that. So it's it's it's very organized and developed in that sense it is not a free for all. But yes, in a we, there are some me because this year marks the return your way. Through where they see the diaspora, which would be us. Dice for on Caribbean I guess Brazilian Diaspora have the right to return to. Ghana. Being descendants of Africans who to we during slavery. They. Call it four hundred years of courses more than four hundred years. But they counting the four hundred. Yes. When they first long sleep through slanted in Virginia thing. Matt's that point that they measure the time and so what this president is doing, which I think is absolutely fantastic. Another presidents another the previous president has done it when he issued thirty two. Koets is that they giving dice for the chance to apply for? Ghanaian citizenship. which would be phenomenal but it allows you to travel throughout echo asks right which is The West African States is likely Coupla to carry calm the EU but west Africa. Allows you to travel that without any visas or any issues, but for example, just the other day I drove to toggle with. Google. And she did not have who documents in order and she was given a lot of a lot of trouble and is actually unfortunately I. Think it's due to trump. Actually a lot of hostility towards Americans now in Iraq. Not. Calm you're not harmed you're not harmed but. You know it's not necessarily the strongest Pasco to have. You know. Everything is safe. Everything is safe. It's it's not issue because gone you have a great relationship. You guys have a massive embassy here. You know. I'm actually the US I think is the only the only way you can trust middle passage since slavery I mean there's no flights carribean I don't think they're flights to South America. That's the only we you can actually crossing the passage since slavery. So. s important for Y'all to know again, this is not this is not he said, she said stuff this is coming directly from someone my cousins be exact who is literally on the ground in Accra Ghana in. So she's going to be telling US how she is raising her family in Accra Ghana and also some things that you may or may not know about what is happening with the government, the culture, and specifically what you need to know in order to travel to west Africa. And so 'cause talk loot let's talk more family. Now before we go back onto a lot of similarities between Caribbean culture or even South American culture in West African culture how how is it raising your to your two children in Ghana How how are they treated? What are some of the Aha moments when it comes to being raised around people that of course, look just like them but literally are in a different foreign country on than what a of course we're traditionally raised them. Okay. So when you arrive people here that you're Trinidadian into. Their first response is welcome hold cousin. Right. I mean obviously concede that I am not a white woman. But in Africa they call me a Boonie they referred to me. White. Described as a white woman. So this is the first time in my life. I've ever been described as a white woman. My oldest son Phoenix typically presents as a hassle of Aboriginal. Look him because his father is up east Indian descent extreme value into union father sent my second son his father is French. So even though he he's the image of me. He is like tradition. Of A of me. And so we are we are fine. No Caribbean. People sort of universal donors were like salt when everything quick people are not necessarily intimidated by US and so on and so forth and win a minority Tim's Diet for the Americans are majority so were treated beautifully. But my son is called Indian. and. Then my other son white. You know my my my l.. The Sun is was once tooled by people at GS, for example, at gone into national school that. When he says, you know while I'm African and he says, they said, no, you're not African to set your mother's wipes. Well So that was that was a bit of a shock to me. That was that was interesting but you know other than that. It's it's pure love. It's you know they very, very welcoming to carry them people. Young in even when it comes to that 'cause 'cause, of course, you novel only into Liberia I told you in when it comes to all the skin tones. That is interesting that they still annot knowing that you are of African descent still because of your lighter complexion referred to you as as white like How does skin complexions from of the people that you see on a regular basis on a more darker like bluish tone or are they of a lighter complexion was the skin varieties on that? You See Donna? covid not duck has in a bluish against like the Senegalese or the Sudanese. But you can get very duck dance But You know you can. You can literally look here and you can see. Who was transported as slaves, which tribes and who wasn't room you can look you can look at the teachers and say, yes, this person looks Caribbean Oh, you could. You can look and say this time. Whatever the I'm These people will not transported slaves. It's very, very obvious to you when you come here while. Though, for example, I was in a club wants and there was a guy sitting he was the bathroom attendance and I looked at him and I said I'm so sorry I need to ask which tribe you're from because you look. To, Nevada Union to the Boone while any says, you know I'm away right there up from the Volta region sort of the middle and north of gone around the League, the rivers which would have been really important to transportation. I've noticed that the alien, for example, look. Caribbean. You know. Wow, still that's that's really really interesting. As a huge point right there 'cause was goes into the incident next point of nossiter tuning in a really quick. We're on episode sixty, four of the art lee-jay, a bid cast podcast series on this special. Sunday edition titled Distant Relatives Are Hailing out of Ghana across Ghana to be exactly my very special guests in cousin. Is. DOOR SMART. Who is a raising her two boys in Ghana currently right now and so 'cause transportation Let's let's dive into that because folks. Here, in the states that there are a lot of times told a lot of a lot of misinformation comes bird halbe transportation is Ghana or even in West Africa period like Howard. Howard erodes what type of cars are allowed to locals driving a talk to us about transportation. Okay. So you know you're Africa which is developing a lot of the countries in Africa most developing countries. So there's a huge disparity between the haves and the have-nots. Transportation isn't developed in a we for example, that I feel safe putting my son on a bus to go to school. So my son We came from Sydney at ten. He was sitting on a bus run off way to school in an income had I have to physically dry him walking to school. They got little. Sort of Maxi, taxi to the buses caught trues that transport people around. There is a trine system attract system that they're attempting to revitalize I think some trains run between a couple of points. The Ruins? Not Great at all not greater to their heavily policed. which makes one feels safe but all that's really happening is that the police a stopping you and if they stop you on some some minor issue, the just looking for a couple of dollars here. And literally, that's all it is is essentially police on the streets begging for money. But you're not going to be harmed in any way that's just how it is. You know and Yeah Yeah Yeah. So you know. It's a little bit of putting in the beginning then you sort of get used to the culture and he just realized that these please check. So not a big deal. In terms of 'cause will is a lot of this wealth. You know they discovered oil in Ghana in two thousand seven. You their new oil country So they still developing that industry but besides that, they would welcome the Golden. Cocoa and other industries and So you know the Africans love their Mercedes. There's lots of that happening luxury caused the they fly first-class they fly you know they fly business class. So. It's one extreme or the or the other basically. You know in terms of transportation iten here. I walk out on the streets. Uber is fantastic. It's cheap. It's safe. This uber this bolt on. There's another one by begins with T. I can't remember the name of it but we have he of them here working and you can get them in minutes such really really easy to get around across, and then you can hire drivers and you can rent 'cause. So getting around is easy. It just is a very, it's it's dependent on your budget. If you WANNA rent a con you WANNA. Have a driver. It's a specific budget. If you WANNA go around the crop very cheap very safe. Very affordable. Wow that's that's good to know because there are a lot of people because you know I'm sure you've heard debt that pink that because they're in Africa that they're they're not a developing nation that has access to some of the luxuries that we do in the Caribbean and and also here in the states I'm located at and so for those that didn't know there is over a in Ghana you heard it from my cousins mouth it's very easy and also very. Easy to navigate on top of that, and so there is a public transportation that you could definitely touch base with when you do go to a craw. So 'cause talk talk about when it comes to the foods what are some of your favorite food dishes in also what similar dishes are dare in Ghana that we make of course, Trinidadian Culture on that you found similar on that they just say different name for this what they call it in Ghana versus Trinidad. Okay so As you realized Julian is sort of shoot straight from the HIP. I love my GonNa people who as here. But the food. It's not fine cuisine. It's heavy oil. It's carbohydrates with a sign of carbohydrates in the set of carbohydrates and carbohydrates for dessert you're not. But You know in the Caribbean, we have something called Callum. Which is From. Leafy. Vegetables leafy plant right on. They have it here. It's called Clinton grade, but it's cooked cooked differently. So in in my whom I I prepared callum using briefs and taste exactly the scene. On the streets you can get roast corn, which is very similar to Trinidad except they rules would cook an. Grandma that there's rules planting can't but you don't get for example I've not seen it in in Trinidad in parts of the Caribbean that I've lived in. Just fantastic the rapid to newspaper on exhibit with you know. With the with peanuts. There's something called Foo-, which is like a heavy combination of like a massive Soto gelatinous dumpling, which is made out of you pounding in cassava on plant in something else and you you you eat it with something called a light soup. So you break off a piece, each your hands, you actually eating soup with your hands, which is an art form in itself. But. What happens here not can be tasty. But what happens here is that they add spice like you wouldn't believe and it's not eastern spice is just it's just heat. Heat and you don't have the ability to you don't have the ability to. Adjust, it ought to ask yourself not decide. It's just heat. They also have something in west Africa Call Julia, fries, which is very similar to ought to what we prepared. I called. Pal. So that is very, very similar, but I'm not a fan of the food and Ghana but I'm a huge fan of food in French. L. Be in a former British call need do much for Ghana in the food department. Yes yes. I is though. A shoutout to date like Tony said, they got they're going to have your mouth blazing with the spices Ogundare, but which is always going to be a toss up between who has the best food in West Africa just like my cousin said so. Even. So even with that Tony like talk about like how easy is it to travel? Can you travel like into Nigeria into a someone other neighboring countries even going as far as Liberia Sierra Leone from where you are in Ghana like how easy is it to travel? Can you travel only be a plane? Can you do train like what are what are some of the different ways to get above the countries neighboring countries specific? So, training is complete the question or grow across. That you can drive. Still, for example, I drove to the other D to buy school books for my my son because he attended French school. And the French use a very specific type of exercise books which you can't find in Ghana on Amish one shop that was selling it. Clues zone dropped to a, which is a three hour drive. Up which is fine I flew to Senegal Agassi driving to Senegal is is not a good idea. They are various African airlines that you can use. So I flew to sending which is fantastic. Just, off the coast of Ghana, there is Portuguese Wilma Portuguese a colony of an island caller, the cooper violence call dot to I think so too many. Principe. Island's a completely malaria free. Stunning like you're in the Caribbean. Lots of light in terms of ease of crossing Boorda's. Having a traumatic past. Very strong coach in Africa. So when when we when I go to Nigeria I can get a Nigerian vs up, but there's no fee woo. Ryan's you can get visas on arrival in various countries, which you're GONNA pay a pretty penny more for visas on arrival. It's not like an Egypt where you live at a visa for rival is twenty five or whatever it is. Maybe that's cheap since last have been chipped run. But. So, there's not difference than all sued bureaucracy depending on who you all when you arrive, you could spend hours in Nigeria but not Nigeria is like. Nigeria is like how can I describe it? Nigeria for example, is a supposed to turn to be Google of of West Africa on Ghana's solution. I. Saw Two years that analogy? The turnout passport is strong hair but when I flew into. When I flew into Senegal I, use my French passports. However when I drove Trinidad when it sorry draft tool I, use my truly passport who has did my research the French still required a visa. Get into, and that's an indication of how diploma colony on the corner. Of Their relationship. So I just use my training Pasco is like s welcomes be bienvenue. You know whereas Senegalese new visa. That's required for the French. So I just use my French passport. So I'm I'M SORTA LUCKY In that sense but relatively speaking, it's fairly difficult to get around because the ruled system within the continent just not developed. It's not good. Three countries like South Sudan or whatever to get another place. It's obviously not safe but KINA foucault. Had issues. WHO. Had, a war recently variously, but I mean, it's all fine. ACTUALLY WANNA spend new year's including for mom. And And Relatives Begins Difficult, but it's very difficult also to travel around the Caribbean. You know it's expensive. It's a small planes. This new boats system. You know it's it's it's. You know but. I would say it's it's safe to get around with need to have the money to fly up the Myrtle. Invest, in as good right there because to because that that I know I know is is is is winding down to the last the last two questions that we have for you. But we did have one from one of our our audience members Delta when it's no Tony what is the currency? Rate in. Ghana compared to US dollar. So how does the gun Yan currency hold up to US dollar? History here the gun, an currencies cola CD. Emoji of the word is I think from a CD, which is an account I think in a candidate which is one of the tribe. For the cowry shells, which is what the gun guardians treated with lewellen Ghana transition from the pound chilly. Long Komiya Kumo who was the president that led Ghana into independence along. With he was pan-africanist, etc.. used in that name that's why it's called the CD. Monsieur the has dropped significantly. I think early this yet was about four point seven CD to one US dollar. It's about. Five point the banks would five point six, five, point, seven up five point I did. So this CD is dropping with respect to the US dollar. Route. Local, that's good. That's a good answer. So hopefully, she answered your question DPW 'cause. I I, know I know I you definitely are are winding down for getting ready for the new day. But if if folks are looking to travel to Ghana a give them like your top five bucket list of places that they have to travel that you approve of. especially if they're coming from the US, they have not gone to Trinidad and Tobago. They've not gone to the Caribbean before but this is their first time stopping directly will the land like what are some places that you would mention they have to attend? Okay Well. It depends what you want. If you're if you're a surfer, tell you to go to cook retail and details beach I think everybody needs to go. For example to the to the slave castle. It's the big ones keep coasts now Nino on you know it's really Those those are a must see for anyone. There are a couple in crab because Ghana had forty of these reports is a tremendous amount of sleep treat out of Ghana. And So that would be important if you're a foodie that lots of. Lovely international restaurants here in Ghana on. There's one in particular which I quite like because. I think it's GONNA is finally starting to. Promote their own food in a in a new way. There's a restaurant fact fish which. Will. Gone Guinea fowl in in a in a beautiful. Presentation is also another restaurant Kooky House, which does the original. Guinea. Follow with Yap fries, which is delicious Obam. There is the the center which I think is the largest art center in West Africa which I think is a must a must visit. There's also a fantastic little it's called son trade bead shop. It's in a place in Erie corn asylum down where you can get treat a beats. At the beads and you can shrink together means you can do to design your own leads. There if you're looking for beautiful beaches, you have to drive out a to accent loon who soi which are in the western region. You can head to keep coast than drive and uncle passed there. In terms of the north while Coomassie is really central. Central part of Ghanaian life and I think that's going to when I heard I haven't been to yet but had some guests here and that the museum there is with with Ca. Absolutely absolutely and then just as the final follow up to that 'cause like people When I came back from Liberia states, they were shocked at how clean and clear some of the beaches were in Liberia and I know urine Ghana next to Nigeria a lot of ause beaches are very well known especially for those that travel to Africa. So can you just give a glimpse into what the beaches look like I know we have beautiful beaches in Trinidad but compared to Trinidad like what are the beaches like in Ghana You know it's all Atlantic Ocean. So there's no see. You get some sheltered stuff depending on on the geography of to be right. Still anessa strong swimmer you have to be careful. The beaches are not mocked with flags. Most of them are not MAPRA flags and to be quite honest I I can't go to a beach in across 'cause they are absolutely filthy I have to drive out of acros. Even so the not particularly clean but I need each grew up on the north coast several of the character of Trinidad. So you know don't. It's difficult but you you can't be too harsh on. I think on on some of the African nations with respect to the beaches in particular the West Africans because. Generally, the population not Zuma's and to be quite honest I feel that the Africans hair have turned their back on the waters because it was a place that they disappeared. And I think pain is it stays in the DNA. And unless things are dressed in suit in. There's you know there's more recognition of what actually happened and things memorialize it. When you go to Berlin, we would stuff everywhere but. It's not like that. So I understand that. A sitting degree but I think I think now maybe waking up to two because it will will the speaking up to the environmental crisis so they they they have to wake up at the beaches. On. Not Great. But you you have to drive out across great beaches in central. Syria on different speeches Oh. Togo as well and I don't know about banning. But definitely Syria unsanitary cafe, etc.. Absolutely. So y'all heard it. I. Heard it I this evening on. No I just wanted to have her on for a quick a quick our segment because again, it is already a new day in Ghana with my cousin Tony Isadora smart she is hailing. Progress on those that just were tuning in a she is again a part of my family clan, my smart clan we did get a shot out through Tony One of my friends Dion Lewis US said, shot out to you in new amazing things all the way out there in Ghana he basically said that our family is incredible in your living up to our last name. So shout out to dion, given you a out Tony but nevertheless 'cause we always allow you as the special guest to leave a final jewel. Of Wisdom when it comes to you being not just a mother but also being an Ernie of being an accountant of being a wife of when people are basically afraid to travel let alone travel to west. Africa what would you give as a word of wisdom for that person that maim hearing are from you being there right now in in they are are trying to get over the hump of that fear like what would you tell them of why it's important to travel let alone travel to west Africa. Well Festival Africa is just absolutely stunning. So rich enriching I think every person planet as they tried to make it to the Eiffel. Tower. The Statue of Liberty needs to come to Africa you know Because this is Matt originated from for those of us that a diet of foreign descent. Also, they are those who are descendants from the slave owners is well, it's important to come here. It's important to come here and the diocese morons. It's important to come here to find yourself. Because you'll be shocked when you come here. I mean, it's not called the motherland for no reason and you know I'm not I'm not only an attorney mccown him sue. You'll teacher and the word of advice that I have for everyone is to try to live as a theoretically as you can, and it's not difficult because we all have fair. You know we know which paralyzes but into these D- given the future of the planets with the climate on on what's happening I think I think you need to step out there you need to come to. Africa. And you'll enjoy be saved come to Ghana for show. Yes, you heard it again from Tony's mouth Kuyani to go to west Africa. as as 'cause, you already know when to start my exploration in Africa in Ghana but God had another plan in store for me which is what I just recently went to Liberia but will be across hopefully sometime next year or either that or Sierra Leone an and so for those that are looking as you heard, my cousins say to really go back to the root of your identity no matter whether you're black White Hispanic whatever the case. Is stats are out there. The history is out there all of us originated from the motherland, which was not even called Africa was the opium of those that do study in the aspirin. So shoutout to my cousin Tony Isadora smart of being again, my special guests for episode sixty four Amok Final Jewel just as simple as that need to travel to Africa y'all you the music on that I was playing at the beginning on Okaz. To dive into that, we will bring you back for another addition to talk about the music of similarities between The music in the Caribbean versus in West Africa and in talk a little bit more about the government because they need to hear just like you and I talked about on DM Facebook Messenger. What's happening on the streets in Ghana with politics? And so this has been episode sixty, four Tony, how can they reach out? You 'cause they have any follow up questions they WANNA know how it is raising a two two young kings in in West Africa and also even about your travel explorations if they need some inspiration Canadian reach out to you all social media, how can I touch base with you? Well I'm actually. Twenty five of social media. Tend to use it for the for the family to see children grow. But I guess if I'm happy to help I, guess if they have any questions Julian they can directed to you. You know you can feed them to me and also you know. There's a guestroom half you absolutely absolutely. Yeah and you gotTa keep me posted with respect to Sierra. Leone because up starts investigation about our John Stevens snot which I think will take us to see early on. So maybe we can hook them up to now. You. Know how we smart always global. So we gotta connect you. After came from Liberia I gotta go to Africa once once or twice a year minimum because of be over there for sure a soon in again we appreciate you coming on especially staying up with us for those that don't know Ghana in in certain parts of West Africa at least six hours ahead in. So literally my cousin stayed up to make sure she was able to. You all and myself in what is happening in Acros, and so we do appreciate because in a definitely say a quick prayer over you really quick to let you get ready for. Some rest in, we will allow you to enjoy the rest of the beginning of your week. Thank you. Again. A Father God I just want to thank you for my cousin Tony Coming on and of being able to share her expertise in her experience of raising her children in a in a international territory being able to embrace of the culture on that is in west African culture in just a being open book to show others a why they need to travel back to Africa we thank you for her talents and her gifts that. You've used a through her father God. We thank you for the wisdom and knowledge and even the the education that she's brought four from this interview to show again myself in others of what is happening on the ground floor in West. Africa. We pray that you will bless her children, breasts, our family blessed our family father God abroad wherever they are because you know how big we are father guy but we always are. We always are valuing the importance of education, and so we just thank you for allowing Tony to educate those empower those that were listening a. we pray that you will continue to guide her in her mission that you have her on. We love you father and we thank you in Jesus name operate a man. I got no-go being touched we we appreciate you staying up with us. We're GONNA have to bring you back soon. My mom she just told you a tony et she's so proud of you. Blessings always joe catch the replay from the beginning so happy. Thank you guys will be in touch and you enjoy the rest of your week in. Thank you so much again. Love you. That I. I do a quick wrap up. You heard from my cousin. She again stayed up with us just to be able to let y'all know and get a low glimpse of behind the camera get a little glimpse behind what what oak saying, what folks are talking about you heard exactly a what is going on in across Ghana from my cousin Tony Isadora, smart you. You may not come from international family like myself in her of a best believe you can still gain family and friends from the art of travel you are not traveling or if you do not have a passport I, don't know what planet you're living on A. So must beauty and so much education that you can learn from just traveling itself. always say at best why eating a traditional Mexican food when you can go to Mexico a why eating Jamaican Trinidadian Bohemian food when you could go and travel in e doubt recklessly from the locals in particular country and most importantly if you are African American or even Caribbean and you do not have any a willingness or any urge to travel to Africa under you are. Missing a lot of your identity crisis that you are in of because I learned so much in just traveling is lobby area for two weeks than I have in my whole entire life in. So you are wanting to learn more about yourself. You need to travel indefinitely, make it a point to travel to west Africa and also Africa alone and so I'm your host, Julian smart ripple. This was this a quick special edition a for a distant relatives because no matter where. You are from especially if you are African descent or African American descent at all traces back to Africa in. So hopefully you all way to learn something tonight segment a mic drop some more of what Tony's Jews are that she dropped in the comments thread on the replay in. So make sure you catch the replay. If you missed any of tonight segment A, we'll be back up for this first week of October. So stay tuned. This was the last official session. For this month of September, on family values, you've heard from a ton of different speakers. parents people who are married single divorced a widowed. You've heard from all gambit all across the gambit of people that value their families and why they know it's important to have family values and so You've heard again from my family on two of my family members recently but if you are wanting to again be married if you are wanting to again start a family. Excuse me. You need to start thinking about what you What are things that are important to you, and what are some things that are going to be embedded in your family values in the core in the foundation of who your family is what are you known for our family? You heard from Tony uh-huh mouth in and you've heard from my mouth, a ton of time say we are all across the globe we're not literally in one pocket of the world Our family is global in. This is just one side. Of My family smart clan also have a distant of family side, which is the ripple clan on that I'm just getting more in touch with right now in. So you need to again know where you come from, you need to know in stay connected to your family because you are needing to have family values. If you have not got a memo this whole month on just reiterating net as we get ready to close out, September ball is officially here especially in the. US and so you need to be ready to transition and shift into a higher gear as we go into the end of twenty nineteen start thinking about where do you want to travel in two thousand, twenty start thinking about why do I not have a passport start thinking about what do I need Juanita of these are do I need shots? Do I need immunization on to go to these particular places start doing the research scar putting it into action because of you're. Not Talking about it. Then you're just literally listening to other people's stories instead of making your own stories in so or or even making your own memories, let alone stories and so shout out to those that do valued importance of travel in the importance of bringing your family along for the journey a shout out. So my mom's a bet smart. She always put it in my DNA from early to travel literally she's traveled abroad just like myself in. So it. Is it is important to a value who your parents are and what values they teach you from a young age because that's part of who I am today is a man and so a shoutout for those that have been tuning in this whole month, catch the replays if you missed any of the segments and then we'll be back next month of October coming up this week for lifestyle changes, we are going to kick it into a higher gear for those goals those. Dreams those aspirations at you still want to chicken into next level for twenty twenty a we're going to end this year off strong in, so you'll hear from a large group of entrepreneurs and also professionals in a how they have changed up their lifestyle for the better and so you won't want to miss any of October segments but until the next time again, a mic drop, the link for some events we have captaining here in Atlanta for those that are in the states. tune into some of our events we have coming up we have financial peace university classes starting on Wednesday up a knows that are looking to be debt free or to get more sound with their financial education You will want to click the link on that I will drop into comments thread. Uh, to make sure you are one step closer to being financially free in. Also, we have a part two of our picture-perfect Oto shoot of event that is happening this. Saturday October fifth coming up. If you missed this past Saturday a, you still have time to register for your head shots in. So if you are entrepreneur business professional a husband or wife or even apparent unt at want to just make sure you have the right face that you're putting out there for Your Business for your your holiday pictures up for your website. A won't want to miss our picture-perfect fall, photoshop. Event coming up October fifth and so just click the link in. The video comments, thread that I'll be putting on there in a second It's been a pleasure serving which you all this month of September y'all have a great rest of the week in also make it a great rest of the a year y'all two thousand nineteen is about to be over. So if you haven't started on two thousand twenty in thinking what you're doing already a you are behind in. So that's my final jewel kindle signing off y'all stay blessed they hydrated lease.

Ghana Africa west Africa West Africa Caribbean US Trinidad Liberia Africa Tony One Tony Isadora Hian Ghana Akaba Nigeria Ghana International School Julian Tobago Australia Atlanta Tony West indies
Welcome To The Show

PTI

23:25 min | 1 year ago

Welcome To The Show

"Hey thanks for listening to laughter permitted we are excited to have ally as our sponsor because they are all about providing top notch service to its customers and like we want to deliver awesome content on this podcast ally is relentless and providing the best banking experience it can for its customers Wilpon same time tomorrow knucklehead get the podcast on at Fort Apple Podcast GonNa say actual person feels like I'm getting five star service which is what we all want really I mean who's a fan of two star restaurants or to start anything I'm actually partial before Starr's myself but let's get serious party people ally obsesses over customer care and doing right by you so go to ally dot COM itself I'd love to see Tony One of those late nineteen sixties one nothing world series games. I don't know that that's going to happen right that's what eighteenth anniversary Tony why don't you think we still get along I'm Tony Kornheiser well for starters you're in Los Angeles yeah that's how you keep schefter floats the idea that Tom Brady could become a free agent but we begin today with the world series which starts in a couple of hours in Houston both the Astros in the Nazi you liked cold keep it rolling tonight it's only I don't know if you can keep rolling by winning one in a row I mean rolling really gets it going sets it out there I also like that I have access to twenty four seven customer care and can talk to a real person if I have any issues or need help it's so refreshing to speak to an worried that he might give up a home run earlier to home runs early because that has been his pattern but if you asked me where my heart is and I'm GonNa put it out there with Max Scherzer they'll say this array and six of the top twenty tonight is Max Scherzer who has three Cy youngs against Garrett Cole who has been the best pitcher in baseball since May will I mean it's sure's her in Strasbourg against coal and burland the first two games and if either team wins both I think that that signifies oh season in the postseason at this point he's three and no with zero point four all we are a but as you know I love Sherzer shares who is a warrior God their starting pitching setup and rested it is the first time since nineteen forty-five we will see a world series with four baseball's top ten starters in terms of the Lakers against the entire rest of the NBA field. Tony I don't WanNa take either one of those teams against the field I taw Houston Portland to add to those to at least in our probably left somebody out in the West right yeah I think I will on eight hundred kids welcome. PTI boys and girls and today's episode of the NBA Season Tips off patriots crush the jets and Adams like to see but I don't I don't see anybody rolling to you well look I've told you sat here and told you that I think that the Astros are the best team in baseball they want wow that's a. l. l. y. Dot Com ally bank member. FDIC interruption but I'm Mike wilpon NBA general managers pick the clippers to win the title. Meanwhile the Vegas money which you Scott that all the time but that's the Lakers skulls on will you take the clippers that's a lot if you've got us you've got three or four but in addition to those two you got Philadelphia Milwaukee in the East you've got Denver cost of Yes yes timing hitting you can't simulate the kind of speed I mean Garrett Cole among other attributes how do you go against Garrett Cole you just mentioned what he's done he hadn't lost his may twenty second Blah Blah Blah yeah but also like Max Scherzer to keep this role in for the first time in six years we're not looking at Golden State in Cleveland or Golden State and whomever which you got last year I think it is wide open I look at the clippers we're on for eighteen years morning I actually thought that we were off the air for five or six of them dear like eighteen years is just an impossibly long velos some kind of momentum we ask the other team Oh my God do you have a chance like cardinals in the NFL CS the nets kept that rolling. Yeah so it's brass you should have been with me in Beverly Hills Walis last night's on you don't like the great clog hope you get a free steak out of that three can you believe one hundred seven games they the best team in National League workout were in the nets beat them Garrett Cole as you say hasn't lost since late May but more importantly in the specifically I've already said I'm GONNA take the clippers to start to seize okay so so we're all looking ahead to June I will take the field and I will take the field enthusiastically undeniably Leonard and Paul George Are Superior Basketball players I don't know if they fit together I don't know if they fit with what's out there I'm not sure that I actually think the it and he knew it which is why he said while might quote I'm seeing ghosts close quote Tony these were not friendly ghosts cast you're asking me both teams against the field right that's nothing usually if you've got five teams are serious contention and most NBA seasons up to start they got plenty of what Ali I think they are at the moment rather overrated all those names you've mentioned I think our actual contenders at this this brutal horrible exhibition there I I mean this this could actually stay with him in a terrible way Kyle van Noy who landed on those two I think I expect those too even though I don't expect them to finish first or second in the regular season in the West I expected to be ready for the playoffs so I'm GonNa take them and I'll tell you I would not I don't want to dismiss them Tony The news about Klay Thompson being out now knew that you knew that regrettably over how long do you think this is going to haunt both darnold and your team of your youth the jet s honestly if he doesn't talk about that football game last night you call the game the Patriots thirty three to nothing smack down to the jets is one of the pitiful performances I've ever seen here I don't think anybody runs away in the way golden state has worn away wrong so to me I'll take the twenty eight out of the thirty I'll have you take them the series is more or less over this is nothing but I will say this Tony I assure has to keep a close eye worry if anything about the nationals bats yeah I just did it I said I we would never do that it's not in the last six PTI I'm only way we've been on could be a career killer now if he turns out to be a great quarterback he leaves that behind but if not if what we saw last night with four picks and a full this don't so we'll see let's get to where you are in Los Angeles and not in Houston me Lakers clippers tonight is the NBA season kicks off a can also put it up there in the high nineties and so if you got timing issues at the plate because you haven't played in twenty four days believe that Jim Leyland managed to can I just say this that I know that everybody is dismissing Golden State and I think on muscle memory alone when you've got curry and you got Draymond I I would not dismiss them can you imagine ever taking the field in early season. NBA Conversation never happens. You always know who you're overwhelming favourite is and I I I think it's kind of I'm sorry and for Sam Darnold I don't WanNa continue the analogy but you have to wonder if he's spooked that's what they have to wonder if you're if you're the jets and by the way I mean Roy t tracy with yeah and then were beaten in the world series one batted one ninety noncombatant something like one seventy because he says that hitters do get rusty and pitcher south for people who are fans of Bull Durham that that Sam darnold looks exactly like Nuke Lellouche exactly like nuclear those the Patriots have now allowed forty eight points in AH little I watched representative in every way with Sam Darnold nine eleven for thirty two with four picks it was historically sale yes has his trainer put his home for sale yes has he set up his contract void after the season it will come a free agent yes if he's selling his home and house I sold the House state at the Washington Post what so people don't think we're founded on shefty who we know is a great years old New England embraces him wants to play a this is like I don't see this even a little bit that just because he sold trainers selling his home and he's voiding his contract what does that tell you close quote Tony what does it all tell you acres are little bit overrated. I don't know who else they have other than Lebron James and Anthony Davis you tell me Dwight Howard who's on Ron seriously the head coach of the J. E. T. S. does he help Sam Darnold in any way last night at some point you just I mean does he get a standing eight count expe- all of their other cowboys the day the serious contender again the cowboys lost to those clowns a week ago how bad is that I'll tell you I would point go to another place somewhere else what what's it GonNa wear the XFL where's he going let's take a break coming up to the Nazi concerned he asked us might be stealing their side that game was this Adam schefter assertion last night on Monday night countdown the Tom

NBA Tony One Max Scherzer clippers Garrett Cole Sam Darnold Astros Lakers baseball Houston Adam schefter Mike wilpon Tony Kornheiser Tony I Los Angeles Strasbourg Fort Apple Tom Brady jets
Sopranos Sitdown S06E05  Mr. & Mrs. John Sacrimoni Request  Cut To Black

Cut To Black: A Sopranos Sitdown

57:06 min | 2 years ago

Sopranos Sitdown S06E05 Mr. & Mrs. John Sacrimoni Request Cut To Black

"I'll tell you one thing. I'm not ashamed to say I estimate of John Sacramento. He has a man just fucking plummeted break. We hear emotional day to cry like a woman. That's a fucking disgrace. It's fucking coach turned into a pumpkin leaving. Cinderella didn't cry comes the daughters. All bets are off scene tougher guys than Jon. Cryer wins. Let me ask you this. They can make him cry and if he's dad week what the fuck else can they make them. Do I gotTa agree with Phil Thome. Oh you do do you even Cinderella didn't cry. I don't think there's been a better line line reading than that. Welcome to cut to black soprano. Sit Down My name. Is Jim Scam Polian. I've seen every single episode of the Sopranos Rose. My Name is Jacob Burroughs and I've seen seventy episodes of Sopranos and we finally reached season six episode five. Mr Her and Mrs Johnson cremony request Dot Dot Dot big big wedding big wedding but who put this thing together Jim. It's such a big production in all these invites who made it happen. this episode was written by Terence Winter who's the Sopranos Mainstay and it was directed by good old Steve Bush Emmy that's right Tony Egg himself as returned back behind the camera to direct this episode so yeah Dream Team if you will very get so this episode it basically is like we're back to the Sopranos now kind of feels like because it's like oh it's the Sopranos and very much for Tony as well well He. He's back to business. You know that's how we kind of start out. He's he's limping a bit but it's like he's back to it and has the reestablish his credit and everything and yet it gets us into the swing of things post junior shootout. What did you think of this episode. Just overall overall. I liked it quite a bit and I always forget like they kinda seemingly packed so much in one episode and I feel like this is one of those where if it even though it seems like it just takes place across this wedding but like a lot happens and especially like not that we're getting into beats but I guess we were getting into beats already but I like the beginning threw me off because it has the bizarre like it opens on the invitation and we see rusty again. It's remember rusty. Remember like back in the days of season five. When you know there was the whole the battle through the boss or whatever and then it does a weird six weeks later and it took me a minute to realize like Oh yeah. This is a nice way to kind of skip along ahead with. Tony's you know health stuff as well. You know it's a nice easy way ties in with everything. It's something they have mentioned is coming up but it's a nice way to pass some time time. Even though at the beginning it threw me off because it's like what was going on yeah I think is mentioned at some point that he's been out for a couple of months or whatever I think but you know who's not out Mr John Sacramento or whatever his name he is not outside still yeah exactly sorry he's still in the can and and like you said it starts. It starts like you remember us. The and I'm like no. I don't sorry but you know it. All makes sense by the end like you said we skip beheads six weeks and we see him. Get a suit and I'm like Oh. It's for the wedding but no it's the suit for the hearing to get permission to go to the wedding showing up at of the you know the the hoops you have to jump through to get this sort of thing approved. Yeah I mean I I. I don't know a lot about Irish courts worth or Swedish court wherever you've been been when you've been picked up by the Law Miss Jacob Boroughs but it's you know it's a whole thing of an image like if you go into into a courtroom in your prison blues or your prison orange. It's like cast the aura of you being criminal so it's all about putting on a suit he's just another guy coming into court to request some time off to go to his daughter's. Wedding makes sense what about so like from what I learned from television as you can make bail and then he can go and not be in lock up while you're waiting for trial but they can do choose not to do you that. If you'RE A flight risk. Am I right. Yes yeah and I think with Jonny sack Tom. I don't know if it has to do with the type of charges that are against him where he wouldn't be given bail or even like a uncle. Junior House arrests type situation where I believe he he'd he'd be a flight risk. There's something that could try to disappear or even make potential witnesses are or what have you disappear or just operate his business in general if he's he's not behind bars so since you mentioned Swedish court I only ask this because everyone really really upset about rocky. Didn't they yea yeah well actually before you're getting sweetest. They wear the wigs the powder wigs they do right yeah. They say the yeah they do yeah yeah every court except the good old USA whereas part of wigs we all know this started saying I'm sorry you hold this perception of us but and also you WanNa pick on me but neither of those will be accepted at this scenario. We don't have any of them oils that don't have fancy courtrooms like this one the big seals and flags flags and it's just like well. Maybe there was no but like it's just a very boring better call. Saul courtroom at most and I don't think there's even like a podium for the judge. There's table sort of thing so yeah I mean I'd say probably most courts even here are not like what you see on TV anyways just lots that what what you see on TV so every TV show has it and I was just saying if they're not letting John Out. Why should we let tap out here and he was a flight risk. Just leave the country. Whitney and I mean I don't know how much our listeners even care about that. But what was what was the point of view in Sweden on you guys keeping a sap rocky hostage ridiculous yeah well He was suspected of committing a crime so they put them on trial. It was fairly quick and we don't necessarily have early. Wasn't it like a month yeah yeah. I people are waiting trials for longer. According to your American television shows yeah okay well. Do you think that if we had Swedish Rupaul or something something keep them anyways back to sopranos so yes so Johnny does get the approval which it's it's. I feel like it's a reasonable request but also it's a reasonable answer to he's going to. He's going to foot the bill. He needs to have stay marshals with him or whatever to make sure he doesn't just take off. I feel like everything's kind of reasonable even though like later on they're like John's GonNa fit this bill and it's like yeah of course because most normal people wouldn't get this anyways so that's what happens yes in a weird way. I I kind of sympathize with meadows later later very biased point of view which is like her family and people in her group are like using they do this to just anyone unlike say I think she said something along the lines of like you're just you're innocent until proven guilty and yet you have to spend all this money to be able go to a wedding and all that yeah like you said it all seems kind of reasonable and he's kind of happy with it not realizing the at the time how much is going to have an impact on the day. Yes yeah okay so yeah then we have we meet muscles. Marinara which is Tony's new driver. I forget his actual. They call him muscles. Marinara one points. I didn't just make that up as a racist way to describe him. I forget his his his real name but yeah very and Nucci or something like that. I'm really showing my callers orders today with the names. I'm sorry you had the name before Yeah I'll and in Ziada Perry Ziada but yeah he comes to pick up Tony because yeah. It's Tony's only first day at work. Carmella makes the comment like it's like you know you had enough to first grade or something and you know she's the moms and off to school school because like the common thing throughout this episode is basically image and it's all about. I guess perception and I guess maybe being that Alpha because between or what's considered like the masculine alpha between Tony Johnny and then to another extent veto. I as we see yes and so yeah. He's he's in the car with. Perry muscles will call them and kind of talking about yeah. There was a time I could bench just like the lied or and what do you bench bro. Already looking at his muscles which features heavily later on so they get cut off and traffic and your muscles pretty hot headed about it. He's about to fight some some roof layers or whatever and he's like hey hey. This guy is great. Bryan me young myself and yeah I mean. Tony's also like when essence questions there's definitely some insecurity as well like already even before thinking about how how he looks in front of everyone else because I feel like he's like like you said they shove peaking at his muscles and then asking about benching and then talking about how he's gone onto the gym and stuff like that you know he's got a he's becoming an old weak frail man. Let's let's not beat around the Bush here yeah and interestingly. He's not actually driving him to work. As far as I always driving his therapist that's right so got a love toadies opening line line of like any chance of a mercy folk and the most Cadillac Israel like weird funny. It's funny how things things have changed over the years. Yes yeah and what are they kind of getting into here. Beside I mean I remember the mercy fuck. What is he talks about like nightmares in a good. Yes she kind of wants to dig at this thing that he got shot by his uncle and Tony as he's wanted to kind of clams up but in a way hey it's not that he's unwilling to discuss it. It's more that like he has been carried by this great wind of being happy to be alive all of a sudden and he's not gonNa go around and pity for himself whatever I I'm pretty sure he quotes that some point but yeah no he just seems kind of Smiley happy. She's digging for negative stuff and yeah. He just wants to pick up an he wants to talk about Aj how AJ's flunked out of school and that's what they get into which is that like he thinks he as the loser for working at blockbuster and so Melfi Canada tries to angle it more like isn't it kind of a good thing that he's not like because it was a one point trying to buy a gun to get revenge uh-huh. Yes yeah remember that not the Tony knows that but like she gets into that and Tony wants to describe this thing with junior as domestic excuse disturbance or whatever victim to abuse or domestic violence. You don't think it will happen to you. I Ah I forget if it's here or not but when they kind of bring up you know this is the second time and he's almost kind of saying like you know you warned me. I feel really bad that I mean I guess Melfi would know the extent of this that no one kind of understands hands that juniors not junior like they're just take people are just immediately. Wealth Junior tried to kill Tony again like this was his master plan. All along young was to be on house arrest and hope that he could get tony alone one night so he could shoot. Oh Mike I mean I guess it's it's easier to to for me to say that when I didn't get shot by junior but you know have some compassion and understanding for this poor man this poor old man who's not himself but yeah. I'm sure they'll get into that more throughout the season yeah and Melfi remeasured. She's sort of trying like to say that. Maybe this is the way for. Aj Learn from your mistakes which is a bit harsh but she's saying that like the ready abundance of weapons the ease going to violence the things people do and your crew. Maybe it's not the worst thing to work at blockbuster and he does sort of reluctantly agreed that yeah there are worse things you could do the work at blockbuster or worse ways to make money but I feel like he's thinking more like you could be like you know doing something that you you could even worse if a piece of shit like McDonald's that would be a worse. I feel like that's still what he's thinking but also I don't. I don't quite love her. Logic anyways ways because it's still more of a path to being like Tony than if he just stayed in school and did better you know like Tony also flunked data school but yeah splitting hairs here because then what we have Tony at century L. He's after with ah the gang's all there they start comparing scars at one point they give Tony One of his little sandwiches but what they have to take the onions out or something because you know he he's got to watch what he eats a little bit more now because a little sensitive tell me and I like that there's moments I think Silvio Silvio does what I've seen. Tony do a million times because Tony is in like medical mode so he's just talking about whether it be the drugs drugs they got him on or would he can't eat or dealing with this and that and Silvio is like trying to change the subject because no one else that's not going through. That shit wants to hear about that. Shit and I've seen Tony do a similar thing whenever someone gets into their shit. It's like yeah. No one wants to hear that. We don't want to hear about sickness and death because you know it's all it's it's. It's it's everyone's chip is a chip on everyone's shoulder but we don't want to be reminded of it all right so take your fucking. Morbid Shit and keep it to yourself now definitely heard Tony do that like someone someone start talking about their family held or whatever and he's like all good now instead of pats on the show but yes so he gets cut off the interesting thing about the scene is that everyone's sort of rushing to help him and like you know we got you slow going to give you a big cushion to sit on and if they do that but basically that's what they're doing thing which is. GonNa negatively affect. His image is standing as you'd later realize there's also this character is like our want a different life. I could have worked in healthcare and I'm like WHO's this guy. I don't remember big before but I'm not sure the guys talking about how he took care of his mother and Kinda Kinda helps Tony later too yeah I don't. I think I vaguely remember him being in scenes but yet remember him having lines or much to do beforehand either yes so let's look here. Yeah obviously kind of gets to win the poker game as we see as well. That's another aspect but before we get to that we have a couple of court-related scenes. We have the one where juniors new lawyer is trying to get him. I don't know to go to get to go somewhere to be taken care of rather than just locked up because he's not all there and yeah this shows up open a newspaper later and it's like you said he he isn't really there but to the outside world they don't know that so if you the headline about some Mafia boss being you know put away for mental care or whatever you'd go sure sure is yet will in especially especially because I mean even as the audience. We've seen junior play with this a bit before. where it was a kind of is year isn't he but it was more? It was more isn't he. At that point and now it's like fully now. He's not there where he has flashes but you know this is kind of a man that needs to be taken care of yeah and we also see John Planning or being part of the planning of the wedding. It's clear that he has a stake in in what's going on because he's like Oh. These people can't sit next to people and whatever and yeah it's all very important stressing out bride but yeah it's all you know it ends quite sweetly with him going like yeah you know. I only care about how's my family and that includes you eric the new kid on the block yeah and it just kind of a fun. it's a scene you could see you know whether it be in real life or even just some rom com or whatever of like the old the the politics of the family who can sit with who but it's done in a visitation Asian Room of a maximum security prison and everyone else to stop at a moment when he can has one of his vintage Jonny sack whereas voice cast to get really loud because he gets really pissed off so back to the Poker Game Phil Leotard. Oh shows up and he wants to have chant and Tony agrees to go outside and apparently there's no chance of surveillance if you go outside the place where you're at all the time this is something we come back together and again like sometimes it's we all. We gotta play music or whatever sometimes it's like. We'll just take a walk this fine but yeah so johnny wants to knock off rusty. That's why we saw at the beginning at its comes together a bit here. That's the plan and Tony you know he doesn't see what's in it for him really which makes complete sense like it it really really like you know why. Tony to be involved in this bullshit again I mean I know he already indirectly involved himself by you know going carmine initially way back when when it was what the Ralphie situation an or whatever but it's like he doesn't need to deal with this but John is trying to shield himself because again I guess he's what another captain or something and this could make it look make him look bad so yeah you you know just typical mafia politics going on here yeah so Tony Coming back from his first day at school. He's just a little trouble walk up the stairs and he's really tired and takes a nap with Carmella which is really nice and sweet actually yeah yeah then we cut away like a backrooms strip club. Where of course Chris is there and his his his Arab friends show up where he he's. He's selling them stolen credit card numbers. We get hilarious back and forth where he makes a reference to don't leave home without it like the credit card commercial. They don't understand what the reference cultural differences differences this is great but then they casually ask for some tech nine guns so so there is like wait are we are helping terrorism or by just thinking that helping terrorism is that racist just because they happen to be Middle Eastern descent but but then who knows any more who knows I mean if if there were Swedish mobsters they would also not understand is commercially go. We don't know award this car this fall we only use these and even that's not very much so yeah and they brought some dates for uh for Tony. Whatever is great. There is a cultural clash air because we don't understand but yeah they want some automatic rifles and yeah so. I don't think he's on the phone. He's been yeah. It doesn't really give us a definitive answer but I think it's just there to give us the like I it's a classic Sopranos especially at the time well. This was in too close to nine eleven at this point. This is two thousand six I think but you know they love throwing up little like. Is it a red herring. Is it something there that they're gonNA pay off later but yeah he gets a call all they don't really give a definitive answer. I mean but they're definitely playing with something because what Christopher had that conversation with one of the agents who had been who had come back from from being in the Middle East and they're talking about terrorism. Blah Blah Blah was especially. It's big thing in America what is the headline here when in-car goes to get the o Don Squirrel Squirrel Yonne yes cushy cycle. I love that too whether it be winter or if they had to be in the writer's room like throwing out different headlines they've been good one yeah because rushes out to get got it 'cause he's gotten a call but that's going on doesn't really feature much in the rest of the episode though except we do see him eventually arrive in that place more importantly. It's time for the wedding and Johnny gets a visit from these marshals who he's paying to escort him there and back and yeah he he doesn't really even like acknowledge them. As people with yeah might be part of the problem maybe done that would have gone better but then maybe that would have just been seen. Zina's trying to sugar him up butter up but yeah I it doesn't work out when he's complaining about the shoes. I don't know anything about suits so I don't really get what he's getting there either than we have. Tony and calm dole out some cash for the wedding gifts and they're making notes of who who they gave to who and meadow has like some comments about that and it's just this funny joke of okay well. We need to make sure whatever we give. They have to give at least that amount and then it turns into a tender moment where Tony's talking about how you know in this new outlook on life. It's very important for him to be able to see meadow. Get married in hold his grandchildren and stuff like that. It's I think it's a very nice sweet moment yeah and meadows kind of like alright ride but at least Carmelo's all right because they do see more aligned ever since he got shot and this is one of those moments where she catholics fondly Adam. I think actually metal gives them more than you're giving her credit for Jamie Lynn Sigler like in that scene she kind of tears up a little bit righted sorry to call you but I was actually impressed watching it because I thought she kind of gives them a lot with very little on screen but that's just my those are my my two cents. She does roller is before leaving. Put that in there to a bit of both there but she she's now she. She doesn't roller is she. Flutters rise because she's getting tiered up so the tomato dude so very arrive at a huge line for the wedding because they got airport security to go through which everyone's complaining about putting their cell phones and shared on the train to go in Jay. Guess Makes Sense. I mean he could have been like busted out or whatever but like it's this is a lot of security as well but then they are like the biggest mob plan. That's GonNa say it's Hilarious S. because if any wedding would need it. It's this one you know because they are. You know th they're all guilty. Maybe not the wives but like they're Paul mobsters but it's just classic like the people that are actually part of the problem and then complain like you believe what we have to deal with. These cups could something better to do. You know it's the great dichotomy of the supreme. Does it's true and I mean at the same time I guess guess I wouldn't put it past them to bring a gun to a wedding just in case I also feel like they wouldn't do that yeah very true but it's all basically for us to get this smell with. Tony which is definitely a low point for him in the episode as far as image and everything where I mean airport security is stressful at the best of times and now he's he's wearing the suit and sweating and he's been line in the sun for a long time and Ben's over and I I felt like I would feel faint without being shot and carved up open also they're almost falls over and everyone rushes to help him because he's the big boss but if the big boss can't stand up how big of a boss can really be and don't don't they double check here don't they don't we see a quick point of view shot. Two of Tony like looking at the crowd is they're all looking at him being like Kinda helpless helpless here. I could just be remembering Miss Remembering it here but I mean obviously it's either way. It's an important moment because you know it's going to title into what happens with Jani later in how it is if you're going to be the boss. It's all about perception yeah. There's Pan. I mean maybe it's not necessarily like point of view. It's even like people we don't really know. Everyone kind of has that look like a poor. Guy Can't even fucking stand up yeah. He can't even I mean he's he can't he's sitting down facing the crowd where everyone else is standing up and he has to have someone help him take his shoes off and yeah so. This is kind of in their show. Obviously this is frustrating for him in itself but more importantly he's aware of how this might affect things already even if it's not something thinking about actively at the time I think and then yes we get the wedding and everyone's GonNa talk and bullshit like you love how this happens that both funerals and weddings and this show where no one's really there for the thing. They're such big parties that they're all like talking about. The bride's name is doesn't that mean cold medicine and so on and what but Allegra means what in Italian Galleon what the hell is it 'cause y'all means Mary or something like that or happy and and then Chris is like what the fuck is that GonNa got to do with the allergies cold medicine so yeah great funny stuff. I forget if we also did he directly. Maybe didn't that cookout episode that they had with like the barbecue or like the grandfather's birthday because you get even though the this isn't the full episode because I forget about all the other stuff around it. I love when we have these episodes where we get to hang out with everyone hanging out. There's always like little it'll fund comedic moments and then just seeing the different character interactions that you don't always see on the show virtually. Oh Yeah I'm not sure we can look that up whether Bush was involved there too but it has a similar field certainly yeah because we get see all these different people and they're air sort of us on what's going on. Obviously the people we just mentioned just trash-talking. Johnny's really happy about the whole situation. Tony's probably really frustrated and I think he's I don't know if it's Carmella that sorta looking over towards medal and is boo boo and so on and we have veto as well it was Kinda looking at his wife's hand on his and wedding ring there which is kind of like a shackled him. I suppose it doesn't look very happy about it. I let me correct myself that was directed by John Patterson. Put It was written by Michael imperiously Christopher. I just knew someone from the show that was involved in that but anyways sure so yeah we get the reception it's Super Swanky and like they point out like it's either this or or give it to the Fed so they just through all the money in business wedding which is hilarious. I like food the station over there and so quick question before anything Aj's girlfriend different girlfriend's girlfriend still oh. I didn't notice I think maybe it is a different girl. I guess always you smoking. It's the girls smoking if it's not the blonde girl because the last girl for an IRA member and maybe forgetting someone between was that blonde girl who was Richard Than Him because she popped up in a later episode as well the only one I remember although yeah there. There was this bit where he was speaking of. He was an event planner for a little bit there and then someone mentioned that here in yeah. I'm pretty sure Tony does and he goes. Where do you get this shit and that's like the second time they've had a thing like that. Where yeah that. Wasn't this episode but those a similar thing to win. Tony brought up. How at the dinner table. Aj brought up going west point or something like that and then Asia's like I said that what are you talking about but that came more from at the time when he brought it up twenty made fun of him for I kind of feel like that is why he was like. No I would never have done that. This is even maybe a little little similar because we now Tony. At least pre coma was a little bit more homophobic than he is now yeah so hello. Vito shows up and they're talking about some building contracts and I think the point of this is to underline that vetos really really great hands an envelope even though there's all the security here I guess this is the place to securities is out the door I guess but still the the marshalls there and they all decide like this is a great time talking about murdering people and given a given money and all this shit but you have do that and butter him up a bit and then Johnny shows up and asks in person through hilarious consequences that he should do the do the deed what up at the the date with rusty before that though to veto also doesn't he never misses an opportunity to make a comment thin as well like look at spinster over here what he says he always us to make a comment whenever he sees them and yeah they'll make beautiful grandkids and yeah you're right. This is just kind of to put the the exclamation point on the fact that be veto is like one of the top guys for Tony like he makes he makes moves. He makes things happen and he he serves up fatty envelopes and going back to when he when Tony has to deal with Jonny sack here sopranos gets is to use old people again and I feel like maybe better call Saul Kid could compete with Sopranos with how great and Hilarious areas you use the elderly because Sopranos. I've commented on many times. I love how they have aloof like confused old people. I mean in in a in a uncle June sense. It's like heartbreaking but then you know a wacky little cover story for them discussing business business. It's hilarious yeah exactly so there's sort of their eaten away and trying to chat about things but not really there. They kinda hear them but it's not like they would be able to kind of not the Kinda do and it's like they're he say Janis says the jar that rusty is like a cancer sir or whatever and one of them recommends a doctor those sorts of things but yeah it's like is that it's a it's a great use of it and Johnny basically makes it's like a personal plea like appeals to Tony's better nature and ask them to bird this person and Tony Tony agrees eventually yes and they watched godfather in a long time but they haven't hilarious like what's Chris and Tony when they're talking about godfather and it's like the offer you can't refuse but then it's like well no technically John's the father of the bride and he's supposed to not be able to refuse an offer and they like they're like go who refuse but I think the important thing to with Tony and Chris back and forth because even just initially watching get Chris's talking to Tony Way different than we've ever seen him do it before like he's. He seems more comfortable. He calls it. A PUSSY ASS move A- and I think it does point to this whole thing about you. Know Perception and Tony is kind of being more even though he they still are like yeah. You're the boss boss. He's perceived as weaker because he got shot in the gut and almost died yeah. Although I have felt that this whole well maybe not this all season but lately in general Christopher's Bene- Bitta too big for his Britches even though he has a captain now and all but he really does like flex that he's a captain and my it gets into here about things but then so does all the other captains except Silvio except that one time so we move want to the big dance and it's actually yeah seems like a really nice fun time again continuing how Tony are getting better along. They even have have a slow dance. They're just quite nice and then we just cut to junior getting into this home for people with problems uh-huh yeah. It's fucking sad. It's it's really it's really a bum out that because junior I mean for all his faults whether it be when he tried to kill Tony but because I still see people on like the facebook groups and the Sopranos groups that are like teen of should even let him back in the circle after what he did did a bad move your try to whack them and it's like but no I mean it was understood within the rationale of the show that he was kind of not so not so much manipulated violated but you know it was more like Libya's hand there and I don't know I loved Tony and junior together that scene when he asked don't she loved me with the never had the makes varsity athlete episode you know very emotional and he's such a fun character and it's it's coming coming to such a depressing conclusion. which I guess is kind of the norm for any Mafia story? It's always supposed to be about the highs and lows but you know when he it does feel like he's. He's junior here when he's in the room and he's like why would I why would I shoot my nephew. You know it must have been something with the gun. It must have been this and he's like pleading because he doesn't understand stand. Why he's you know like literally alone now and he doesn't even have his previous lawyer that was at least like more of a friendly acquaintance like like connected guy? It's just this seemingly like court appointed dude. Hey this where you keep you this and that guy is still kind. China doing him a favor because at least he's here and he's not in a prison cell but it's not a great place to be yeah because junior is getting desperate say I I did it but while function and everything and like you said this is him being more lucid even though he doesn't remember what happened and yeah so uh I was also thinking of the older lawyer how he would have handled it and now this guy handle set but it's just Kinda like you even not only did. He drive everyone away in his life. He also fired his lawyer for no apparent reason just because he got mad and probably wasn't even told me now will his lawyer at a stroke remember. That was one thing like just terrible all around like one of the things at least at this point the sopranos is like getting old is awful. because you know you either go crazy you turn on the people you love. You have a stroke people. Don't want anything to do with you like most of these threads when you get old. It's not good news yeah or you just get used as a distraction when someone's talking about murder so we're back at the wedding and Tony has more fun looks at the I guess they're cutting the cake at this point or no. There's no sorry sh- allegra dancing with Jonny sack and Tony looks over at Meadow Eto and I will say at this point meadow is definitely more teary eyed and like oh definitely I feel like the earlier scene gene bats sunk in at this point and now we're on the same page I feel yeah. I feel you and I do like that. They Sh- they take time in the episode to show these moments that which Jonny sack especially that that it is genuine because you could just as easily have this be a thing for the character like when junior was just trying to go to funerals so he could get out of the house like because is it almost could've just been a thing of like okay. I got some business to handle. We need to make sure this rusty hits going so I'll use my daughter's wedding as a as an out or something but there's many times the episode where you see that it is it is a genuine thing here and I mean obviously it does build up to his reaction at the end because between him just breaking down in front of everyone in just the scene of him having to be back in your jail cell like it's almost got to be worse now because you had a taste of like not just a regular day of freedom like just hanging out of your house watching TV like one of the best memorable all days when you're out with your family and now it's like. Oh Yeah I remember an hour ago House having wedding cake and now back in fucking jail what the fuck yeah so that starts to happen as they do have the cake cutting and the marshals come up saying it's time to wrap this up and his lawyers even they're saying I try to get them to budget includes transport or whatever so I kind of expected him to be gone in the next scene when they're sort of coming out there because obviously the party still go but it seems like he kinda pushed his luck here because he wanted to be here for this big moment and I mean the marshalls are being Dick's right. They could have grabbed a second later like literally second later. They're not as ruining John Johnny Day at that point. They're ruining the whole wedding and for no reason in particular unless they're really really thinking. He's gotTa jump in the fucking just married car and try to get them out of there. I'm not sure why they time it so badly other than let's make this as traumatic as possible for Johnny so he can start crying yeah yeah because it almost seems like they're being dicks when they're like all right we gotta go and it's like the cake things happening bening but it's not so bad. It's like all right. Well Fair enough but yeah when you see that he's still there and it's at the point when they're like yeah. They're just clapping them away to the car to drive away away. It literally would have been like twenty seconds later right as the car drove away. They autumn there to zip out in front of the car. Hold everything up. Make a big scene and yeah you know I it's it's funny though because with it being the Sopranos it's like you're waiting for the the okay. What is the moment. That's going to happen and they tease you a little bit where it's all they're. GonNa make a big spectacle now. During the cake eating thing because you know something is going to happen been like this but now they kind of save savor it like right up until the end Johnny has has his breakdown and then what Yeah Ginny passes out the brightest come running out of the Limo and make sure her family's okay. He's getting handcuffed. Well actually even before that fills great line what say hi to Donohoe for me or whatever and everyone laughs. It's such a cheese ball like bullshit moment to call that out. Yeah I mean no one's going to be talking about Tony and his shoes. That's an upside to all of this. I suppose but yeah it is just like the martial car. Even Guy Pulls up in front of their cars. They're driving away. I think going on the wrong side the wrong way around the roundabout as well just because the kind of get in Alydar we gotta get him right now right now and it really fucks up the situation and yeah fucks up his rep as well as we see in the next scene as is was heard in the intro to cut the back is such a great quote and a great line reading my estimation of John Sacranie as a man has plummeted kilometers so great and just the fact to going back to like hollows reading. Chris talked Tony and even a little bit was talking about last episode or maybe it was the episode before of like you know. You got one boss. That's in jail. That's kind of powerless. Our listen a weird way and then at the time you had tony in the hospital like it's definitely like the vultures are going to start to circle because just the fact that they're all out in the open talking like this is kind of a statement in and of itself. It's not like it's not just saying it to Tony. Maybe pulling him into the side and being like are you serious or even just one of his guys in his grew. It's like this is like everyone just gathered around and he's just yelling about how Janis at the at the celebration that John's paying for yelling about how he's like a piece of shit. You know what I mean like. This is pretty pretty big deal yeah. My subset at the time was kind of like I guess. Tony's just going to have to pull out of this whole murdering rusty thing because like it's by. It seems like this is like the the death blow for Johnny Sacks Yeah. It seems like 'cause he's already like locked away probably going to be for a long time and then his rep takes a hit. I I mean when you're in when you're in you can ask as up about this but when you're on the inside your Rep Kennedys go up you get presidents tweeting about you all sorts but as soon as you're out cry nine. No one wants to see it. Take orders for your anymore as up nope. No one wants that we didn't mention but veto did leave the wedding early early. His wife does have a comment like he always gets like this at weddings because I mean it's just gotTa be a stark reminder that like you're not doc quite living or you. Don't have what these people have because whether it be you're straight or gay or whatever like never mind just being single at a wedding you start getting all emotional welcome. I don't have that only have like someone when when they're saying their vows and whether it be true or not when it's like. Oh you're the one I found this is so romantic poor veto veto doesn't have that. I mean he's married but he clearly doesn't have that connection that he's looking for so he lumbers portfolios wife who goes home and watches is a romantic film to kind of get some of that of that buzz going zero goes out to get some collections so yeah you know poor or veto. He's he's really the one is getting the rough end of the deal here right yeah very true yeah but you know what. I mean 'cause I was just say from his point. Lina view but like even if you're just in a loveless marriage I'm sure it amplifies everything when you're an environment like that and it's got to be tough to kind of have it in the back of your your mind then we have what Tony Carmen bed. She makes the statement what we've been very lucky. I forget specifically which is getting it here house. How's The kid yes yeah the hospital and everything and like Jonny sack obviously they just saw that whole breakdown so they're kind of like oh we still have all of this and and you're out of hospital and he's not out of jail and Tony says like you make your own Lucky House. My main would take away from this scene was because we haven't seen in a while. I'm like God bedroom is fucking. Gaudy isn't it they have pillars and I know this has been the same for years like pillars with big pillar like a- vases of flowers big painting on the wall all these ugly as lamps. It's really bad and makes me think Oh. It's probably a good thing we didn't get to build cows and didn't get to decorate it because no one would have bought it with all those pillars all over the place yes yeah and then as we as. I mentioned we have the scene. We're Johnny has to go back to his cell Alan. It's Kinda back to reality here after being out and then we go to one of the most like cliche gay clubs you'd ever see Omo. I guess I mean I'm sure a club like this as to exist but it's almost homophobic and itself just having this be the environment in a weird way right like is it just is it just to completely squash any doubt like if it was just like a more normal. I mean John What's the normal I guess but if it was just like a regular gay club and you know just a bunch of gay guys and they weren't all wearing leather with their be at least plausible deniability ability that vetos like oh I just came in for a drink or something like does it have to be that he's in a lead their hat and wearing like pulling a guy a leash what I mean ah I mean he's definitely leading into say that he's he's really leading into it. in the scene. The club is as well and its core. Gore and everything but yeah probably right. I mean some people do love to lean into it and I will say no the gay bars. I've been to like this then I it could be going to the shit gay clubs. That's also a possibility I mean. I'm probably being more harsh saying like it's too over the top because again. I'm sure they're like fifty percent again clubs. This don't don't get me wrong. I get it. I'm not sure I don't think but yes then. We have sal kind of some. I'm these nobody's like that. We started working certain anyways these New York nobody's and vetoes there. He's got a guy almost by Lee. She's like dancing whipping his arms around having a good all-time getting all that getting all that sexual energy out from the wedding and he runs into sal and he tries to like play it off a little bit like hey it's just the joke man like don't even worry about it but he has shit cover story. He never thought that this might happen. Sister Joe Commod aw sure Jan and yeah he goes home and grabs a knife a knife a gun. Sorry this is America. Grabs the gun and a Mike. I'm assuming he's going to go and find these guys and kill them but that's not the case. No no yeah 'CAUSE I. The same thought like Oh oh he's GonNa pull like a big pussy where you have to show up at Elvis's house and and kill him before he says that he saw at the that was just he saw what the department store for with someone from that he said was from Dover that was actually his informant but we he goes on the he basically Sigli lambs it goes to a motel they do call out that they're playing this three bell song which they also played in the previous episode they played the first verse in the previous episode when I think baron was like rowing under that bridge. That's right yeah because I immediately thought like I've I heard this recently and I thought it was maybe a movie or something obviously it was because it's pretty prominently featured in the previous episode two and now comes in and now when he gets into the Motel Room. I'm like ninety percent. He's GonNa shoot himself in the head. Yeah it doesn't happen either well. It's funny because I thought the same thing I was like. What did I see this like. This must have been in breaking bad or something like Google Google Song like Oh what what show was. This was like the fucking sopranos you that's Hilarious bad times at the L. Riyal and there's a film where where someone goes into a motel room and I'm like I said this was the same song just in the previous episode Nick so he calls Silvio to just China asked what's up or something and it's just a check if he's heard I guess but you just feel him out. He's trying to let's see with word got out. I mean I guess he's kind of thinking. It would be that fast but he you know he's like what is what do you say House Tony Doing just check it in Silvio's obviously annoyed three three in the morning but at least he knows the for now the word hasn't reached at least Jersey Yeah Yeah and so I mean there's only like five minutes left to the episode but we still have a greatest ending less so tony we get a quick wixom with Melfi where he sometimes this is classic. Sopranos of Melfi saying something where he's like yeah yeah it he goes and does something that she definitely would not approve where she just says fake it till you make it or whatever you know just act as if he's like I Could Act Ziff Jeff and comes up with this brilliant plan of that act as if yeah the buildups great because the way shot I mean obviously we cut to Tony's point of view a a lot is he's kind of sizing people up and it hearkens back to features good old jail story of you know what you do when you first. Let's get into prison and you look for the biggest will think he says biggest black guy but tony's s size and everyone up between you know. Are they a credible threat it and also I guess I think I mean muscles is obviously got the muscles but I think he also Kinda is we as we saw earlier episode. He's a hot head where he would fight back because maybe even some of the other guys even if like Bobby's a big dude would bobby necessarily fight back just because Tony was talking shit and like like maybe sucker punch to in this year. I'm sorry about the only exactly impression but yeah I know he wouldn't fly yeah. I guess in retrospect that is what's happening but him looking looking at all the muscles in slow motion. Yes kinda homoerotic in a way I mean that's got to play there too. Because with the with others current episode run sorry continue yeah and like he was talking a lot in the car with muscles about like benching and everything and and he also we we didn't mention it but when he goes into his medical facts earlier he's like it's fucking bummer that it eats away at your muscle not your fats when you're in a hospital spittal self and I'm just a big ball of fat and all of that and everyone else's short sleeves and he's got kind of longer sleeves there and yeah I mean it is to to size them up. Buy Yes but is it to get the biggest opponents or is it just as because when. I watched it I was more like thinking. It's more like we're all big tough man. I got to be a big tough man kind of thing but maybe is picking who to pick a fight with yeah. I think that's definitely there as well but yet to me. I totally read it as he's really early. Like kind of size people up on you know who's a credible threat and like how it's GonNa look to in front of the rest of the gang. 'cause isn't everyone's there and this was a nice public show that he's about to do here. Yeah muscles is great great choice because he's new like no one on cares if he beats up muscles and it also makes sense because they probably know he didn't with the fridge door or whatever but this is also just classic. Tony where he would beat someone up just because he's angry and it's hilarious that in the past that's been like oh he's he's real. He's he's muscles Marinara. He's a hot head. We KINDA GOTTA watch out for Tony's not stable and now it's like. I gotTa make sure they know I'm not stable or the order of the micro wrong so yeah gives them a punch and he muscles. It gets back up and tries to fight him. Antonio's credit share out of them so well. Don Sony Yeah yeah he firstly hit some kind of with a sucker punch knocks him down and then everyone like takes a moment and they even like don't do it. Don't do it because they know muscles kind of goes back at them but tony catches his arm slams against the fridge edge for slamming the door and then you know hit some with some shots to the body like knees him in the Groin. I guess punches him in the face it it's it is pretty great. It's it's such a great ending. I have seen some recent comments going back to like some of the facebook groups or whatever where I saw. There's some people being like this is so cringe like muscles would kill Tony and like I mean I guess you could argue that but I don't feel like it's that implausible that Tony Beats them them up here and maybe that is my naievety but I get that muscle. He's he's. He's a young Jack Dude but that doesn't necessarily mean. He's like the toughest guy you know. Yeah Tony's more people or I would even believe if they said like muscles fought. I'd like I mean he has a hard head so he probably thought some people but Tony's fought people probably to the death so yeah so I totally believe that as well but it has the perfect non it's like if you just Kinda just office shoulder and that was the end of the episode you'd go like Mike while this is fucking bullshit wish fulfillment but I love the actual ending of him going to the bathroom immediately spurting throw up all over the place which is also like read you probably have internal bleeding caused by this showy add to make but then when he gets up and looks in the Mary frigging grinning showed him but then he throws up again Ed yes another reversal. I love that it is great yeah. He has a little grin like Ha- still got it. You know see and then yeah he's throwing up again and yeah it is like he's like throwing up blood or something here and it's kind of the Nice like ceiling point of view you know T- it's Tony like the big tough guy but he's on a heap in the bathroom floor throwing up. It's perfect. It's great. Yes very good and like we you said this is the return to the Sopranos feels like after a sort of stint in hospital the Sopranos where you know scrubs and the Sopranos Rana's came together and formed like a brilliant sort of I'm an Ospedale room get visited by all these kooky characters making friends with my house. Little neighbors like that was kind of a different show and now it's like. Oh Oh this is familiar again and this is a great way to launch as back into that and presumably we'll stay in that space for the rest of the season. Yes absolutely so yeah great episode. If you have any thoughts on it you can send them over to shows which you know show at gmail.com and of course we greatly appreciate reviews a cut to black on apple podcasts or your other pod catcher but if you even if you don't use apple podcasts please log in Minnesota Review. It helps the show tremendously tremendously as many people might not realize if you have an iphone. You already have an account. It's very quick and easy to leave review otherwise life your window scum like me. You can just use any old computer will work so you just go to apple podcasts and leave review. We'd we'd love you for it forever and we might hunt you down if you don't so bear that in mind and of course shows what you know dot com where you can find all our other programming remember blank meets the one. We shoved down your throat by putting it in this feet. Are there's a new episode out where we combined. I don't know if this will sell it to the sopranos grabbed but we combine gilmore girls because of quick bait and in an hour me and Jim here here we brainstorm the whole concept for television show about heart warming family of log so I just realized I may have lowered the chances that you'll check out meets bank but it is quite good and of quite funny as well. If I do say so myself so you'll find that shows what dot com and if you want you can always labor every for that as well absolutely. I guess there's just one more more thing left to say. Oh Jim whatever it'd be cut to black.

Tony Tony Tony Johnny Jonny sack John What Chris Steve Bush Tony Egg Silvio Silvio Carmella Mike Melfi Saul Kid Tony One facebook Aj Terence Winter Mr John Sacramento Michael imperiously Christophe Cinderella Phil Thome
Bad Sign?

PTI

19:50 min | 1 year ago

Bad Sign?

"Foot odor throwing you off your game. Stick to a winning game plan with odor readers featuring three advanced. Fighters. The lineup provides long-lasting Odor, control plus more to keep your feet on their game. Ota Readers powder provides outstanding moisture control, clear drying sprays the MVP in preventing athlete's foot while insoles were continuously demanded, wetness will adding a layer of comfort. Pick up today at Walmart target CVS dollar, general or other fine retailers, ordering readers destroy foot odor with the best in order defense. Crazy Oh, man, back in his own attic, varying your hat to cover up the bandages and the stitches of course, and this is episode eighty-five we'll. We're going to begin with the NFL. The NFL has cancelled the hall of Fame Exhibition that was scheduled for August. This is traditionally the first game of the exhibition season. So I'll ask you this big deal. Little deal no deal. Big Deal. Tony big deal I mean that's really been waiting for this I. Don't think it's surprised. They cancelled the hall of fame. Game gives each of the two teams it was supposed to be. Like a week and a half ten days I suppose to report while we assess the state state of the world, not just a state of the National Football League and state of the cowboys or the state of the Dak Prescott contract to state of the world and United States of America and Texas. One of the growing hotspots, so this is a big deal and Tony. It's a big deal also, because as I look at football as I stare down football at all the you know, we're going to the hype over the schedule. We're GONNA, get this. We don't know if we're Jack. And so this begins to put into some context that we still have to wait a little bit to find out if and what will happen when. Yeah so I don't think it's a big deal yet. Because it's an exhibition game, and it doesn't matter, and it's so early in the schedule. It only exists for the ceremony of the induction of the hall of fame. It's like a booster dinner. It doesn't really mean anything I think. It's a little deal right now, but where I do agree with you is the NFL has been very definitive that they wanNA. Play Sixteen Games I. This is an admission that they don't know how to navigate this virus just yet. This is an admission that they can't be certain about anything. I'll tell you this mike a few months ago when the NFL said Sixteen Games and we're going forward. That was in April that was in May and this seemed like a long way down the road will now we're almost in July and the virus is getting worse. It's not getting better. I think you and I are in accord that the virus holds all the cards and say you want sixteen and even to a ranger schedule, so some games can be flipped. To three months down the road, I don't right now. I'm not bet on sixteen today. How about you? I'm not I'm not even I'm not even to the point of discussing how many games I'm still at the point of wondering if they'll be any games. That's fair at this point. Tony It'd be great. It'd be great if they're all the games. It'd be great if there's a partial season wonderful, we don't know Jack. I mean you know I. Remember I'm going back to. I April and Adam Silver said at the time I know less today than I knew a month ago when he said the season's got to be put on hold. We know in some ways less now. We are less certain of everything of life going forward. We didn't we couldn't. We couldn't have a crystal ball was going to tell us what was going to happen. Necessarily in Florida in Arizona and Texas, and what was going to happen with every event. Now you see events that were scheduled being canceled. We don't know in the NFL doesn't know either. The I think that I think that the NFL will look to baseball to see what happens to baseball to see if they can have the full season that they want. We see things in golf. scrimmages in golf. Guys who go out and Gosnell. Other. Yeah so. Far Apart you can be there. The beyond certainty now probably has a terrible effect on the NFL because they came out stronger than everybody that they were going to have sixteen and. How's IT looking so far? We don't. We don't know how it's looking. Rob Manfred as we move to baseball says Major League Baseball Owl's it to its fans to be better, Tony Quote. We need to start to have conversations about how we. The Commissioner's Office, my staff clubs, the MLB and the players. Can Be better going forward. We to our fans to be better than we've been the last three months tone. What chance do you give of that actually happening? I give zero chance to that. Paying attention to what is happening to this point. They sat down together and all they got was acrimony. They got tremendous acrimony. The players hate the owners. They don't believe anything you're saying. Scott Boris urges them onto and disbelieve the owners. The players left money on the table. Might they left a lot of money on the table? Compared to what they're going to get just so they could sue baseball. So if you ask me what chances this have that they're going to get together and everything's GonNa be great I, would say today absolute zero w zero zero. They've. Each other they hate each other. We can use that word. They do I mean it doesn't mean that every player hates everyone and no, no, no, no no, but collectively the players the owners. They can't stand each other. They've had more work stoppages whereas we know that all the other sports combined, this is what they do. They have acrimony. They sit at a table and they just WanNa spit on each other and you mentioned Boris. He leads the way for the MLB. PGA, even the players who say my God I'm tired of Boris. They wanted to. Doing. What he says, so Tony No there's not going to be the not going to be better, and they really don't care about the fans much either this notion in major league baseball. They really can't. No, no, they don't and I will say this. This is what in the case of Major, League Baseball Players Association has created the strongest unions. They're not paying a bit of attention to the fans. They know what they want. They pursued their agenda. And if you get in the way, it's too bad. Then the neither one of the sides kiss about anything else other than its agenda. So I sort of like rob Manfred I think. He came out very early and said we want to have a season. Will I think he said we'll turn over every rock to get a season? But at this point he flies out. To See Tony Clark and it's optimistic for about I. Don't know five six hours. He may feel betrayed. By Tony Clark, Road Manford has to understand that the players think of him as a complete stooge for the owners every time he suggests something like a pitch clock, or you know something to improve the game they go. No I know. They hate him. They hate him. They hate the owners, so zero is the correct amount. Let us stay with baseball. Let me get closer to home to Washington DC where I live, and you visit. Occasionally I'm told the athletic is reporting that there have been no contractual conversations at all between the Washington nationals and their longtime GM Microsoft Chicago and who I know you love. Decade. Only the Yankees and the cardinals and the dodgers have been to more PO seasons than the nationals will. Can you imagine the national? Just saying died? Get Out of here to Mike Rizzo. Why? Why aren't look I? Only know one side of this. I. Like Mike Rizzo. WHO's a Catholic league boy who grew up in Chicago? What the exact same time I did, and we have a lot of the same. You don't references in life and I really liked Mike Rizzo Mike. Rizzo's really good at what he does. Because I'm sorry, what did they just do? What I told her I? Know Baseball's long time ago, but Mike Rizzo put together. They won the world series. Yeah, why would you live? Your think they won. The World Series thinks I. Don't want to presume that just because they haven't done. It yet means they won't do it. I, don't WanNa do that. There's plenty of time to get a contract to reward Rizzo, but you know what Mike Rusel. Stress he should have none because if the nationals hero reasons don't WanNa do that, they'll be about thirty other teams that say or twenty nine on the teams. Let's say Mr Izzo. Can we have a conversation? Yeah so I can see my resolve leaving if he wants to. If it is his goal to go somewhere else, and he knows where he wants to go, he can do that, but let me go through a few things that he's done. K.. He signed Strasbourg he signed sherzer. He navigated letting go of Bryce Harper because he had Soto and Robe Mason traded for meat. Meat and he was prepared for that. He signed Patrick Corbin. He signed how Kendrick. He got the baby short power and he won the World Series Mike. We've seen this before with. Rizzo gets down to the wire. And then he gets a contract. He's been near since two thousand and nine. There's no reason for the learners not to love him. There's no reason maybe they. Just the way they want to do business, you know more about I, don't i. Say Hello you are Mr Net. You want and dine with the executives So how do you feel with this Rizzo and any long? Goes I feel that he's going to stay if he wants to stay in I. Never heard they didn't want to say. There's one knock against him. He's like ten or eleven years. He goes to managers very quickly. Davey Martinez if he finishes, this season will be the first manager to go three zero three for the mass and he went through, he went to manny. ACTA and Jim. Riggleman David Johnson, Matt, Williams and dusty. Baker we both for dusty. Baker should've stayed, so he churns managers, but again he just won the world series. World Series Washington, DC nineteen, twenty, four was the previous one I knew there was an absence of baseball time. Washington you must put together this rundown. We're GONNA STAND DC. I did thirty five year old, running back. Let me repeat thirty five year old, running back injury, and Peterson wants to play four more years Peterson, said the TMZ quote why not close quote. Peterson is fifth all-time in yards and could have an outside chance to catch him and Smith the all time record if he plays four more years a theme in Washington four more years all the time, every four hundred. Here's a two hundred. Tony. You better guess AP. First of all he's got to catch frank. Gore who's still working. Okay, he's yeah. He's with the jets now and he's number. Three and Peterson is is number five look I would not bet against his ability to get his body in shape and I would not bet against his desire to play, but I might bet against coaches wanting him on the tier. At a certain age. He wants the ball all the time. The reason it works with the redskins the last two years because the redskins have terrible. They didn't have a quarterback. The so that's so the handed walling did he did a very good job, but now they've got a new coach. They got Ron Rivera I. Don't I don't know what that relationship is and I will just say this and get out of my part of the segment the oldest running back ever in the NFL. You know the lead running back Markus. Allen the thirty seven. Peterson wants to go to thirty nine I. Wanted to say, remind people with Shack said. Br Pro thirty nine twenty. s the exact since I work on my shack. But. Marcus Allen who we both love, and we know Marcus Allen was hosed out of three years. There was three years or Marcus. Allen May as well a bit in a smoking jacket with a pipe. He didn't play her. He hardly played at all, and so he saved that Adrian Peterson. Look if Adrian Peterson was in Minnesota where there is emotional investment in him in his career I might see this house. Tony Coaches for the most part. Don't care about running backs anymore. It's one thing to say I. Want to do this. It means you don't get to do it. Necessarily, I don't see this happening. I mean if Adrian Peterson of latch on somewhere and stay healthy good for him. The it'll just make people pay attention to football celebrate. In it Smith Walter Payton and various, and all the other great backs that Peterson has passed and would have to pass Jim Brown of course to get to number one spot of course, Emmitt, Smith but man tone I I, don't i. don't see this happening. He's going to the hall of Fame Agent Peterson. He's great back, but don't tell me. Oh there so many quarterbacks playing until forty. It's a different position. A quarterback receives the ball from the centre. Every play a running back has to have the quarterback handed to him. It's. Just not the same things and thirty nine if he gets the thirty nine I know I'm betting against it, and so we're be amazing. I am betting against the to. Let's see if I can actually read the happy's. I wrote them. Let's see if I can read them happy. fifty-six Birthday Dell Curry before anybody knew how well steph curry could shoot it. They knew how well Dell Curry could shoot it. They retired is numbered Virginia Tech because he could shoot. He played sixteen years in the NBA. Because could shoot it. Del Curry's career shooting percentage from three was forty point two percent in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety four. He was a sixth man of the year. Now both sons are even better shoes. Seth coming off the. The Bench and Dallas shoots best even better than Steph at forty five point three percent. Steph is at forty three point five percent, but Steph has hardware championship rings and MVP trophies. The curry's of the manning's of the NBA Del played for five different teams, but the bulk of his career ten seasons were in Charlotte where he now does color on the Hornets Games and a bit of side intrigue for the Family Eleven years ago. Today Golden State selected Steph. Curry with the seventh overall pick, not top ten Mike Blake Griffin one James Harden Three Marta rose nine. True Tony One of the things I missed about golden state being the playoffs this year, actually being in Golden State. We haven't had any of that this time spent with Dell Curry and del. It's gotta be as proud as he is his sons. He is Tony this got to be a little wistfulness in. He can't beat them anymore. He can't shoot them anymore. He can't beat them in golf anymore. I think he's still trying to get Steph just one round I love seeing hanging out a little bit with. Dell curry every spring for the past seven years now. It's come to an end. That's a happy trails. That streak I loved Ilker. He ain't beaten steph curry in. Those days. How? Three Edwin Jackson on this day ten years ago, while pitching for the diamondbacks Jackson through what we like to call a nuclear loose, no hitter against Tampa towing a hundred forty nine pitches, walking eight and hitting a batter, so nobody was safe Jackson pitch seventeen years in the bigs for Major League record fourteen different teams. He was released in spring training. This year is a minor leager for Arizona. So he was still trying to thirty six Jackson's career record is one. Oh seven. Seven and one thirty three with a four seventy eight era. He made one all star game, but let's go to the teams in the win totals the right here to one six for the dodgers in nineteen for Tampa Bay then fifteen for Detroit. Jackson had six Arizona including this no hitter, but he was traded halfway through that season to your white sox eleven wins in Chicago, five more in Saint, Louis. Fifteen for the Washington nationals. Then sixteen with your cobs. He did great. With Atlanta Lanta. None with either Miami Your Baltimore five with San Diego, six with Oakland and one with the Toronto Blue Jays will, but I know you hate uniform, but that's a lot of uniform visit if Tony I. Mean I admire this first of all. Let's go back to the no hitter. That's a man's no hitter. That was manager coming out in the fifth inning to say. How does your shoulder feel big boy? This big boy pitching back then cook for him I. Love that hundred and forty fifty. He probably glared back in the dugout when the pitching coach got ready to come out. Come out here and I. Won't top you man's pitching, not this list. Protect your arm. You get denied stop. On forty nine. Not Happy trails. Having trails to an empty churchill downs. The Kentucky Derby announced there will be fans Derby on September. Fifth, though at a reduced capacity in the stands and in the infield masks will be encouraged, and fans will be asked to socially distance themselves where possible and wash their hands for twenty seconds or sanitize them frequently, all of which sounds rather laissez faire to me. There was no mention if this stuff was to occur before or after throwing down a few mint juleps no announcement, the specific number of Of Fans allowed to attend the Derby, but last year one hundred fifty thousand showed up the Derby traditionally the first leg of the triple crown. Go second this year last Saturday in front of no fans Tis. The Wall won the Belmont stakes. which went I this year instead of its Usual Third Tis the law Ju- away wouldn't good horse does in the final eighth opening up four links on the field. We'll von. I texted you. You never responded promptly. You'd watch. Did you watch the race? I did. Yeah? There was reason for no tech situation I didn't Tony, but it was part of. It is three hours earlier out here. You know I I wasn't keyed into the five o'clock start time. I, was you know I? was actually having a bite? Outside and people were watching outdoor television and I can hear the screaming, but I was too lazy to get up. Don't horses by the way one to ten scale. What shares to you give a fans actually being actually being in Churchill downs? One to ten ten is actual fans. One is no chance when you got. Oh I. Think they'll be I'd go as high as I think there will be some I. Just don't think it's going normal crowd i. don't, but you gotTA. You just can't say wear a mask if you want or social distance if it's possible. No, you gotTA. Have some rules senior pay A. Science see how many rules Florida and Arizona in Texas have had. What are you talking about? It was a suggestion that most of those dates for at least part of the time. Trust me, I'm in one of them.

baseball Adrian Peterson National Football League Tony One Mike Rizzo steph curry Tony Mike Rizzo Mike Arizona Texas Washington football Washington nationals Marcus Allen Tony Clark Rob Manfred MVP golf Smith Walter Payton
Hush Little Baby

The Truth

27:08 min | 2 years ago

Hush Little Baby

"The episode of the truth contains strong language dear diary. Last time I wrote dear diary was back in high school. The baby the first thing that surprised me after she was born miss her face. It's been so much time looking at sonograms nanograms but this is the first time I saw her features. It felt like the first secret she'd ever kept from me perfect. Oh my God she's beautiful you guys. She was just like you must be over in so so they're over the moon for you to over the Mo- everyone's so happy for me and I know I should be too. I mean I have a baby now. Guess that makes me Mommy. I'm talking to you. You're just checking your vitals. Okay Oh look at her. She's gorgeous thank you. She looked like you or your husband well. Everyone says she looks more like me such little sweetheart. I'm bet you just can't imagine life without her. Of course of course not I'm. Hey <hes> ask you a question is it. Is it normal to feel a little distant from the baby. Do you want me to move her closer. Oh no no I it's fine. It's fine. You don't want her closer. No I guess they just <hes> is. I've been feeling a little not myself baby blues. Everyone feels that you'll be fine but I just feel really off like I know I should be happy but for some reason I I'm not a it's the normal for me to feel a little bad. Are you sleeping. I mean I guess I'm not sleeping well. What's your mood? You'd scale of one to ten. What does that if any changes I mean I just had a baby? So what about your thoughts. What about are you planning to hurt her? What yes or no I have to ask these questions? If you're planning to hurt her. We need to take action to protect her well. No I know I don't want hurt me baby. Have you ever been physically buying. That's not what does your husband ever been by went with you Eric. No never you know forget. I said anything I just wasn't feeling like myself and I wanted to know if it was because Oh my God what was that we all know having a baby as an easy and sleepless nights. It's got a sudden drain on all of your time and energy and that feeling that you have no idea what you're doing today in the truth a story about what happens when you're bundle of joy feels more like a bundle of terror before we get started. I have a favorite ask. The truth is conducting our annual audience survey and really value your feedback. It'll just take a few minutes and we love to share about yourself and share some of the things you I love about. The show please visit survey nerds dot com slash truth to take the survey today that survey nerds dot com slash truth. Thank you so much now back to hush little baby. Maybe what did you do to her. I didn't do anything. Why does she sound like it's not normal of course it's normal? Why is she doing it? You were talking about distant. You feel you think there's going to be no consequences what we are husband. Insane steph making me a monster. She's right but I didn't mean to say you're a month's different not knowing how to feed me feed her just feed her. I tried but she just wasn't latching may hey. I don't know how I don't know how to do. Just here's what happened. Nothing everything is trying to feed her. She's okay. She's she yeah. She's fine. She's Ok look she's latched. That's amazing. Wow Yeah just really hurts. Do you want me to go get the lactation. No I am just outside. I know what I'm doing sure you hear her cry. My hearing's not that bad. Let's take a little walk them holy <hes> we'll be right back. Why can't he hear her like I can? I don't know you don't even seem that bonded. I have to tell you no. I can hear her pennies that you can ruin her for him to keep this to yourself. She's obviously daddy's what you daddy's got you but I'll be between five minutes in three hours from now. What were you talking about nothing Pistons? She's a little angel right. Don't worry I'm Tony One and you've been sleeping well. Yes how about your mood scale of one to ten ten YEP. I feeling great eating great doing great so yup. I am all set right. Just remember to keep track of your baby's eating and sleeping scheduled for the pediatrician appointment okay. We'll write it all down. How are you feeling about going home excited yeah? I'm really good wonderful well. We're wishing all the best congratulations mom and dad welcome home sweetie. You've never been here before. This is your house and this is the lives already so comfortable with this. What do you think you're missing? I'm go pump okay. What is everything okay? Check it out. She loves this light. She's really staring at it. Hope Fluorescent Light Bulb doesn't burn up my retinas on what if that's bad for her eyes light that's the only thing they can see doesn't seem like she's listening. Maybe I should tell him directly. No no no no just Eric. Can we just could you please just not do that. Just just in case just find okay. We'll turn the light off. Okay late us at the air out of the room diaper delivered. I didn't know you had keys. Eric gave me your spare yesterday. Hi Sweetie Oh gimmie. I love you. Welcome home money yeah. It's good to be back. Thank you so much for the diapers. Could you over by the changing table title Eric The changing tables not done yet. It's it's a lot of the way there really isn't though partly we're working on honey when you were a baby. We just stuck you on a mat and called the today. You'll get it taken taken care of before Friday. My Friday will didn't Eric mention anything. We didn't have a chance to mention what nothing bad. Don't sound so alarmed. I was just planning a little celebration for you next week for the baby and you I mean so people can meet the baby and see you all those people watching see what I am. I think it's a nice idea will get to introduce her to all our friends. They'll get to meet the best baby on the planet she so well if she. She were a boy you'd be having a Bris after days not necessarily of course you would. We never talked about having a right because we were having a girl that if she weren't a girl and we did have a breast. Are you talking about. I'm I'm saying it would be nice to introduce to our friends all do all the planning. All you have to do is show up and that was easy enough since it'll be at your house but I don't want to host a party. You're not hosting. I'll be hosting back at the hospital I met this is lovely couple with their own catering business. Who are these people Gillis and we'll do it in two weeks instead of this week okay that way everyone will be happy but I- why don't we talk about this later WanNa go for a little walk just the three of us the WHO watched the baby? I meant the three of us you me and the baby. Oh yeah yeah that sounds good and this is the play ground. You're going to have a lot of fun here right honey. He's waiting for you excited Yup. That's right. It'll be it'll be great can't wait for you to run around play. Do the TIC TAC toe thing over this imagine the like one can run in a way for a new. Let's keep working. Yes sure she's so cute. Thanks how old is she five days five day you must be so in I love of course you know it's the most love the most but you can feel absolutely right here. My are- screaming at me go baby. Carla have a baby right now. Don't yeah because will because you know you have to wait until you're ready or you won't you won't be good at it so drafted tear you have been <unk> should be right now. She's fussing. Stop It. I'm sorry not you the baby. We have to keep moving her a great day you too. What was that about? They need to know it's a responsibility just being nice. He freaked them out. I'm sorry for embarrassing you you. No one tells you how it is. When you're that age they need to know so they can prepare like how we read those books and took that class? I'm just trying to give them good advice like a good parent. Just showing cracks keep this up and he's going to terrible you really are at this since she's hungry. I sit down and feeder apart now yeah I I. I need to write down the feeding schedule. We don't have to do apart. I just wanted to you want to read it down. You a joy to be around sixty five A._M.. Woke up and drink two ounces napped at eight A._M.. Woke up at eight. Oh five back to sleep by eight twenty five or changed at ten snapped again at eleven. We'll go up at one who are back to bed at to change diaper high to Change Dyke Era Gadget. There's changed got to be careful when she fusses better if I just do you not trust me honey. It's been two weeks. She makes the slightest in Iraq it out of bed before I can even get my head off the pillow. You're particularly events runs next week anyway so I should just get used to doing this. You should get some rest before the party tomorrow or what I won't be presentable. No that's not. I'm trying to help them worried about you. You're not acting like yourself. I wonder what's changed. I want to change okay okay but you've been isolating yourself completely cutting me off okay. Do you want to take over breastfeeding. That's not trying to fix everything is what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to go in there and feed her and you know what tomorrow you'll get tired of the party. You're so excited to hi so congratulations Eric you win. You have to have a party. I just thought it would be nice to see her friends. She's hungry just need to be wrong now just company. I don't need company. The Monitor and here all go back to bed. You can eat and I'm GONNA get some recipe for this stupid party. You'd think risk is going there and fine if you feel this way about spending time with me imagine what your friends with them see. What you're you think you can fool everyone? It's only a matter of time before they see the truth. You can't Eric Forever. I am just trying to make sure he can love you. Leave me alone. Eric loves me. I'm I'm not gonNA like you make him miserable on. Maybe he just loves me. He loves both of us. Everything's different. It's not that different you seriously believe that just look at yourself. I'm not a monster. You're a monster or maybe the real monster is a woman who can't back up. Maybe you are the reason you don't want to have the party. Maybe the nasty little thing you want to hide is it made everything I diane comes from storm so if you think I'm a monster that you wear Albouy this Interros Hush. Little baby will return in a moment but I do you experience stress. Do you have any anxiety or chronic pain or do you have trouble sleeping at night at least once a week. We are not alone many of us. Do I have insomnia. I sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night. I can't get back to sleep and I was desperate effort to find anything that can help and then I discovered feels feels is a premium C._B._d.. Delivered directly to your doorstep it naturally helps reduce stress anxiety pain and sleeplessness. I started taking a little bit right before I went to bed and it helps. Let me sleep you just place a few drops of feels under your tongue and feel the difference within minutes. It's incredibly easy to take and if you're new to C._B._D.. Feels offers a free C._D.. Hotline and text message support to help guide your personal experience. It feels works naturally to help you feel better. There's no high hangover or addiction. Join the feels community to get feels delivered to your door every month. You'll save money on every order and you can pause or cancel at any time feels has me feeling my best every day and it can help you to become a member today by going to feel dot com slash truth and you'll get fifty percent off your first order with free shipping. That's F. E.. A. L. S. dot com slash truth to become a member and get fifty percent automatically taken off your first order with free shipping feels dot com slash truth now back to hush little baby were there. She is feeling let me tell you I started making them amosis and if he asked me they're tasting purdie good cheers. I don't want to have the party but people are coming in a few hours. We have to cancel it. Okay okay. Let's talk about this wanted to talk yesterday and then you fall asleep. I'm sorry you told me to go to sleep. I don't want to do it. We don't have to Lina. Let's just send out an email. We can risk listen. I know you get anxious but this is a wonderful thing you ever been. Everyone keeps telling me how wonderful it is constantly all the time but you know what it's not. I don't be dramatic. She says Christ mom you're one talk. I was a mistake and you weren't a mistake. You are surprised right and I'm sure that's how you felt when you realized you were pregnant did you did you have a party right then and there or did you wait two whole week. He stopped talking about this in front of Eric. It's fine. I am so hello sorry for having literally anything to say about myself at all sure you were surprised but you know what I stepped up to the challenge on my own. Do you have any idea what I sacrificed. When you were born do you get? A whole lot of sleep so now I'm just talking about the I'm done. I'm done doing nice things for you. Cancel the party. I don't even know who you invite her Dr. You've been drinking. mimosas are fucking excellent drive you home. Let's take a couple of hours and regroup the group. You need to talk when I get back car. Seats home it okay. You're okay. Why are we doing? We're going for a drive where South asking me Shit. I don't know I don't know so that was pretty interesting before. Not GonNa talk about it. Why because it's Gonna I'm just GONNA? I'm GONNA we drive. I WanNa know where you are. I mean really the one in where I am. You'll be with me. You know she's right. Your mom didn't have a support network when she had you you have it easy and look. I'm fine right. Are we getting out because I want to go for a walk in the park. I want to go for a walk in a park like how things used to be so. Why don't we go to the park near home because it doesn't feel like how things used to be these people can tell you're a baby aiding freak just disc two minutes okay just for two minutes? I'M GONNA pretend I'm a good mom. No please please just wait till we're in the car. I don't want to be a monster now. Restrooms ahead finish shut up. You're it's going to raise them with me. If I lose my call all these people are going to see what you were really not going to Davis genetic or not hear this. I'm sorry do you mind if I sit over here. who of course cool okay Ma'am yes to public space? She's got to eat right. We all got to eat but you could do that at home and just trying to be a good mom Jesus no reason to get angry. I'm just saying their kids in this park kids in this park. But what do you think she's feeding the Dildo. It's not appropriate my son's playing over there right now and he doesn't have a problem problem. So what is your problem. I'm just trying to let kids a fucking baby. Jack Ass all right. This doesn't concern you on talking to her. Jesus Christ what happened. Don't let him make you feel bad monster. Everyone's a monster. Are you okay yeah. She's not hurry you. Are you okay. No no not really I wanted this for so long. Just snuffing is gone like it's supposed to know I mean I. I thought that I was going to be a good mom. I just I don't feel that way. I feel really really. We really sat all the time and really alone. You're not alone. It can be monsters. What's her name Olivia? That's funny. That's my name no way really Oh. That's so I mean it's a beautiful man. Obviously I'm partial to what's going on. I'm sorry I've got to go we should they sure you're not going anywhere and I wanna be a bother your mob bothering me sure just stay. Stay here fedral little monster. Thank you ars. I'm Joanna by the way nice to meet you to run and that's and that's my son Ernie. He's got a haircut Scott that he is. It loves them to hear more original stories like this go to the truth podcast dot com you can also follow us on twitter and Instagram or handle is the truth fiction hush. Little baby was written by Marina tempelsman and produced by Jonathan Kevin Mitchell was performed by an car Erica Schroeder David Ebert Katie Hartman Lewis Cornfeld Leslie miso Erika Hernandez Area Gatlin Boris Kaikan and Talia metal special thanks to magnet theater the offer classes and shows on Improv sketch storytelling New York City find out more at magnet theater dot com. The truth is a part of Radio Topi from P._X.. Work curated network of extraordinary cutting edge podcasts. You can learn more about all. The radio shows at Radio Tovia Dot F._M.. Our associate producer is Emily Mironov. Our intern is caroline felt. I'm Jonathan Mitchell and you have been here the truth thanks to progressive for their support. Recently progressive asked me to reflect on memorable moments wentz in transition to a fully-fledged adult so until three years ago I lived in a one bedroom apartment in New York with my wife Jen and now I live in a one bedroom apartment in New York with my wife Jen and our three year old daughter tackling that's three people sleeping in one bedroom and the thing is it's a great location and my wife has litter for twenty three years so the rent is affordable and it's the kind of place we would dream of living if we didn't already but toys are encroaching on the living room and our daughter has outgrown. Her CRIP is at times. I think it's time to move well. It's either spend two hours commuting to have one more room or to suck it up and have one bedroom with three people will know there's another option where what if we gave Sadie our room. Where would we be? We will be in the living room. I guess we could do that. Joe Murphy Bet a Murphy bed is basically basically a bed that becomes a wall during the day as a hindrance at the bottom and it folds vertically so you have living space in the day in bed by night so the question is do we move and have a yard and maybe even space for an office in a studio or do we stay in Manhattan closer to work and all the things in the city. We love obviously we're going with the new bed. So what do you think about getting your own room. Good what's going to be in it. They be a baby. That's my baby's. Just your babies <hes>. What about your kitchen now? What about all your toys? No what about your big ten taps. No I'm fine. We'll see how this goes. Whatever your Dream Home looks like you can get quality coverage at a great rate with progressive insurance in fact with Progressives homequote explorer you can compare rates online from other companies and choose the covers that works for you?

Eric The sonograms nanograms New York City Iraq Radio Tovia Dot Pistons Interros Jonathan Kevin Mitchell Lina Tony One twitter Gillis Carla Scott Sadie Joanna Jen Joe Murphy intern producer
Proposition 21: Rent Control

Bay Curious

12:33 min | 10 months ago

Proposition 21: Rent Control

"From Cutie. Welcomed Monday people I hope you had a great weekend maybe got a chance to catch up on the seven bay curious prop fest episodes that are already live. Today we're onto proposition twenty one I'm Olivia Allen Price. Ads Proposition twenty, one, the rent control prop are everywhere. You've probably heard some of them did homelessness get so bad. Keep families in their homes built. Yes. In Prague twenty-one, this California is in a deep hole with a shortage of affordable housing prop twenty-one digs in even deeper hole. Note Noise Zolia. Your rent control has become a perennial issue in California elections. But how is this year's law different from others that we've seen? That's what we're here to figure out stick around. Support for bakeries comes from Sierra Nevada, brewing company no matter how people enjoy the outdoors Sierra Nevada wants to help make sure their voices are heard. Sierra. Nevada supports protect our winters and it's make your plan to vote campaign learn more at Sierra Nevada dot com. Like so many of the propositions on our ballot this year proposition twenty, one on rent control proposes changing an existing law. In this case, it's called the cost to Hawkins Rental Housing Act, and before we can talk about prop twenty one, you really need to know how it works. Reporter plot check explains in California rent control limits how much a landlord can raise rent year after year and right now, only fifteen cities in the state have some form of rent control. It's really the bigger cities those so San. Francisco Oakland San Jose. This is Matt Levin, a data reporter for CAL, matters and Co host of the housing podcast Gimme shelter, and he says even in those cities, not every home is under rent control. That's because of this nineteen ninety five law that was trying to encourage building by limiting rent control. It's called the Cost Hawkins Rental Housing Act passed by one vote that sheeps rent control policy across California. It's a huge deal that most people know very little about an limits rent control in two big ways. I Cost Hawkins made it. So an attendant moves out of rent controlled apartment the landlord can raise rent to whatever they want. This is called vacancy decontrol nicey. All departments all the time, their total pieces of crap and they're. They're they're charging like. Brazilian dollars right. But once you get into that apartment. They're limited in how much more they can raise it every time a person moves out, they can reset it Kosta Hawkins also made it. So you cannot have rent control on most single family homes or condos meaning most of the suburbs can't be rent controlled and you can't have rent control on new buildings. So the law created a cutoff date do you can't impose rent control on properties that were built after? Nineteen, ninety five as for the cities that already had rent control cost to Hawkins. Froze their cut off dates where they stood in Oakland the cutoff is in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, three, Berkeley is one, thousand, nine, hundred eighty while in San, Jose and San. Francisco nothing built after Nineteen seventy-nine can have rent control. So anything new in Nice looking in San Francisco is not going to have rent control on it. Proposition twenty one, what we're voting on this year would overturn that cost a Hawkins Housing Act and shift future decisions about rent control from the state to local governments. Now, the economics of rent control who it works for and who it works against are debated and we don't have time to get into all of that on today's show. We do have an episode from a few years ago. That does look closer at issue we'll put a link in our show notes. So if you find yourself wondering, go give that a listen. Okay back to proposition twenty one cake you reporter Joe. Fitzgerald Rodriguez is here to help us untangle it. All welcome Joe. So give us the top line for proper twenty one. What does it do? Well, it's very easy to misunderstand. The whole premise in does not impose new rent control laws. But what prop Tony One does do is allow these to pass their own rent control laws. So they can make their own ten protections on more recently built buildings with some exceptions and the details on this one really matter because we did see a similar. Proposition. Two years ago which California voters turned down now, the same tenants rights groups are back, but they've made some changes this time around what are the specifics here we'll probably one really does three things. I would overturn the Statewide Cost Hawkins Law allow lawmakers to make decisions about whether or not to have rent control getting rid of Casa Hawkins also means doing away with vacancy decontrol water. I mean, that's a wonky were decontrol. Basically means if a tenant leaves rent controlled unit, the landlord could no longer crank up the rent to above market levels they'd be able to raise the rent fifteen percent over the first three years. So under prop twenty one, let's say a tenant moves out and they were paying a thousand dollars in rent wouldn't that be a dream? And then a new tenant moves in the landlord could only raise the rent by fifteen percent, which would be one, thousand, one, hundred and fifty dollars and no higher, right right good back of the Napkin map. Thanks and what about the third thing prop twenty one would do It also has provision that says after new building goes up, the developer can charge whatever they want for the first fifteen years. That's so they can make their money back after fifteen years. The city has rang control that building would then be subject to the local ring control laws. This was added by the authors of the prop twenty one to address criticism that more rang control might deter developers from building more housing, and that's a common critique of rent control as General that. Basically they cost less development and that could actually drive market rate rents in the city up. Yeah. It's a very old saw oft repeated. Between one would do is it makes an exception for small landlords who out one or two single family homes there the little guy. So this would not apply to them. However, if an individual owns a multi unit building prop Tony One would still apply to their property. Now. Here's a bit of a wrinkle on prop twenty one a state law just went into effect that caps rent increases statewide in many cases even cities that are not currently covered by local Rent Control Law Joe tells about that law and how it's different from prop twenty-one. Well, it seems you're talking about California attendant protection. act. Passed in twenty nineteen. Are you a renter in California? Your rights may have grown under a new law that tenant protect for buildings in locales that are not already under rent control. Now, just to be clear, it does not supersede existing rent control. But if you aren't protected, it would cap the amount of rent that your landlord could raise by five percent. It also says that landlords have to have just cause to evict someone and just cause is pretty much how it sounds like a right a right 'cause right if you didn't pay your rent if you were violent if there's a health issue that you've created inside your apartment. Those are all just causes that can lead to your vision. I will add as a quick addendum. There are other ten protections for the pandemic that recently passed out of the state that prevents landlords from kicking out if you lost your job due to the pandemic and you swear to it under penalty of perjury but essentially, this being teens, the landlord's ability to evict you a for some just causes. And it also sunsets in twenty thirty but that's actually part of the critique. The prop twenty one proponents are like well, Hey, guys this sunsets in two, thousand, thirty. That's way too. Soon, we have a pandemic we have a potential pandemic fuelled recession. We don't know how long it will last. We don't know how long the economic effects will last and they maintain a lot of these protections while the. Sound. Good were meant to undercut prop twenty one and we're in fact calculated political methods of doing just that. Okay. Let's turn our attention back to prop twenty one who is supporting it and what are their arguments? Yeah. So Michael Weinstein the president of the AIDS Healthcare Foundation is a perennial supporter of trying to repeal Casa Hawkins and put this on the ballot. It may seem a little far afield. From AIDS help to be spending on housing and rent laws. But the Organization makes the argument that housing is healthcare and that's an opinion shared widely in the homelessness community where many folks dying of ailments on the streets other supporters include former presidential runner, Bernie Sanders, the Democratic Party, and tenants rights, groups broadly, they argue that this is an issue of local control that there are lots of different kinds. Of Communities in California with lots of different needs and local lawmakers should be able to make policies that fit their locale. They also say, Hi rents are pushing people out of California and increasingly mental properties are owned by big companies who are making a killing while making the affordability problems worse. This is especially pronounced during the pandemic where Latin next and black households are specially hurt by job losses dacoven. Nineteen and they say that they listen to voter concerns that rent control could possibly discourage developers from building more housing, which is why they have that fifteen year provisions that we talked about earlier. Let's hear about the opposition well, notably a pretty big opposition governor, Gavin newsom but also construction groups, business groups, landlord groups they say the law that went into effect earlier this year covers a lot of the. Same ground as prop twenty one and they say that rent control is not the ultimate answer to California's housing problem. They say a lack of housing as the problem. So we should not be passing a law that could discourage development of that needed housing. Now, they don't think the fifteen year window of market rate rent enough to mitigate the potential downsides of this proposition of potentially discouraging development and finally. They argue this could hit seniors particularly hard many people live off rental income in their old age, and this could sap their wallets when they have no other source of income. Let's move on to the campaign finance here. So how is financing looking on twenty one? Yeah. Well, the opposition is far outspending yes. On prop twenty one that's forty, two, million dollars on the No side. That's developers right? It's. Basically. Twenty four million dollars on the aside I mean it doesn't take rocket scientist to see who would be against it. Right. As you're saying, it's property management firms as developers, the Apartment Association of Los Angeles, which represents landlords basically anyone who stands to profit from having higher rents is putting money in now to make sure they can keep them. All Right Katie reporter Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez. Thank you so much. You. Let's recap that. Shall We vote? Yes. On proposition twenty one means you want cities to have the power to pass or. Local rent control. On, almost all rental housing as long as it's at least fifteen years old a no vote means you want state limits on rent control to stay in place. Bay Curious is produced by Katrina Schwarz Rob. Speight. Katie. mcmurray. And Me Olivia Allen Price. But we could not do it without the help of the entire newsroom. Check out more election coverage at. Qa d dot Org slash elections. Tomorrow we take on proposition twenty two, the most expensive proposition in California history. Bay. Curious is made in San Francisco at member supported K. Q. E. D. I'll. See You tomorrow.

California Kosta Hawkins San Francisco Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez reporter developer Tony One Statewide Cost Hawkins Law Hawkins Rental Sierra Nevada Sierra Olivia Allen Nevada Prague Sierra Nevada Francisco Fitzgerald Rodriguez Olivia Allen Price Gavin newsom
Steelers Q&A, Part 2: Are the Steelers prepping for life without JuJu, Bud and James Conner?

Behind the Steel Curtain

24:44 min | 11 months ago

Steelers Q&A, Part 2: Are the Steelers prepping for life without JuJu, Bud and James Conner?

"And we're back for Tony Name. Is Brian Anthony Davis welcome back to part two of the steelers QNA and today on this when this is being recorded on a Monday, it is a rainy. Monday Monday in Maryland I. Hope it's Shining Sun wherever you are at this point, and this is a part of the QA where we like to ask you all questions and find out what's on your mind and see if we can throw some insight. But before we go ahead and do that Tony we were talking earlier about the loss over the weekend of at age forty, three of Chadwick Bozeman. You'll very a very tough to hear very sorry about that loss and something that just happened today that. I just I saw something right when I was preparing to go on talking about. Another basketball coach remembering. John Thompson but I did not get a chance to look at it and we lost the sports world lost another legend today and I'm going to bring up as. I mentioned it our Ip John Thompson, my favorite college basketball coach now. Not only. Did. We lose John Thompson we lost one of my favorite players college basketball players from Pitt. Dmitri. Score passed away of a heart attack yesterday and so in hearing all this when I think about. How ironic it is is John Thompson in Dimitrius Gore were probably the two guys that I think of when I first started getting into college basketball I'd not start getting into college basketball until I was about. In eighth grade. And I will never ever forget. That game against Villanova. When Georgetown lost that game to Villanova I cried. I was probably twelve years old I remember crying I was so into John Thompson and Patrick Ewing and that that's town team and that's the team that made me want to watch college basketball 'cause I just thought it was something that. was on a Saturday afternoon. When I was when I was young and there was nothing to watch and I would start watching it then I became enamored with. With John Thompson and also the Georgetown Hoyas, but I remember. When I was working towards Washington, DC, I used to listen to. The locker room show with John Thompson on the radio for a number of years used to listen to him after the fact and he was really. Watch to listen to as well. So we lost a great one in John, Thomson, but then I remember in. Tenth Grade. When Shawn Miller came to. Head. Out of a Black Hawk in I started I remember them they made the second round of the finals and. The finals, excuse me of the NCAA tournament and I was there were four guys that really caught my attention. It was Jerome Lane. Dmitri score. And of course. Really. The legend. And when you believe Tony. That it just I was just reading about him today and it's a guy that I always think of he was my favorite college basketball player and I just lost them. So help me out. trello Smith Charles Smith. Kept. Top Five pick. Yeah. Of the clippers and I can't believe I just lost at that was the team that I just remember watching and I really that got me into college basketball and I was a big fan of pit and I. I will continue to. Be a big Fan of the Pitt Panthers Basketball Team but they're that's the team that all started. So with the loss of Dmitry, score over the weekend loss of John Thompson today and then hearing about Chadwick Bozeman. Please make it stop. That's all day. You just hate to hear that. So, let's go ahead. And let's go ahead open up the live chat to all of you. and. If I've missed some of the. The live chat anything that any questions that you have please go ahead and Have them start filing filing in right now and? That's what we'll do. Rhino tool says Ben redoing his contract next season somehow we'll be huge next season Man I I just don't know how you still have all of that money. You're kicking down the road like you said, Tony I I don't even know how you still do that. But what are your thoughts on that? Yeah I mean it's how much money would that really free up I mean you might be able to free up enough to keep one of those players but. What if the steelers don't WanNa do that something we never really considered what they don't want to. have been around beyond I know it seems crazy to say but he'll be forty years old and he's still gonNA. WanNa big. A big time contract like guys like breeze and Brady are getting in their forty. So. Maybe, two years from now maybe they want to move on and just say look we WANNA start over. We've we've especially if they haven't won a super bowl another super bowl by then they might say look we've. It's time it's time to move on the coast there with peyton manning. I realized I was into related, not age related necessarily but. They might just say look we can't we want to know replenish our roster. We just have so many guys who you know you're gonNA. TJ What you're GONNA WANNA keep Minka, you're gonNA keep de Devin Bush by then they're all all those guys are GonNa want paid by then so they might just decide to move on from a couple years. That's something I've thought about recently. Yeah I've a you know tough for me. I'm not ready. I'm just not ready to cut ties with big I. Hear You. There me either, but it's just It could be it could be the reality and a couple of years. You just never know what what's your thought processes But here's here's really. What I'm looking at here. Is. The big question I keep asking myself. Is the window now? Is it close in the closing even further. Does the window extend past twenty with all of these guys that we talk about all of those guys that West's listed here. Is it closing whole lot quicker is. Is. It twenty twenty or bust for championship with his team with all these guys on the way out the window. Now, I want to preface with the fact Dave Scofield always says that it's not went when now. It's it's not. 'cause they're always looking to win and I know that but will there be even more of a rebuild. Coming after two, thousand and twenty one because this might be. This might be really hard to overcome in less those guys they're grooming for these spots. Don't. Put your thoughts on the window. Tony. Well you know as I always say as Cliche to say but as long as. They they always have a chance to contend and like you said it's going to depend on on what guys like you know. Johnson this is a superstar starting this year. You know certainly next year when you has gone presume presumably. Then that that helps and if case Klay Pool Develops into something of course James Washington. Looks like he can be a solid receiver. And you know if they saw the running back problem after James Connor leaves in Alex Smith. Become something in replaced Bud depre- then yeah, you could still contend next year as long as you have been and the replacements are adequate I don't think it's A. I don't think you're GONNA go into total rebuild mode starting next year. If ben on on on the team if even if they lose all these guys are still going to want to try to win because they have him on the roster. So I don't think it's it's super bowl or bus this year but I think this year on paper looks like a better shot than next year. steelers Pittsburgh says gloom and doom sounds like a Michael Beck on Friday. You know what? You know what? I'm going to recognize it and I'm going to say you know what? I don't WanNa be gloom and doom. So thanks for calling me out on that steelers. Pittsburgh I appreciate that it's a it's the reality that we're looking at and it looks like they're prepping for the future and they really are excited about some of the guys that they have coming in. So maybe it's not twenty twenty or bust. Dante Harris who it is his birthday today happy birthday to Dante Harris Many. Many more my friend from your friends at bt TSE twenty twenty or bus not bust. But the urgency is however now due to Ben's clock more than anything else. So he's saying maybe it's been maybe Ben is the. The really the benchmark for this whole thing. So I really think that that it's it's something that we're looking at right now west says this. Yeah you're right when Ben goes. So does the oh L. which we have maybe two replacements for szucs, Datsun. So. You know that's something to look at as well. Support for this podcast comes from CDW and Dell Technologies. CDW We get migrating your agency to a hyper converged infrastructure is challenging. GotTa it to want to do it slowdown friend CDW experts can help simplify your transition from legacy to hyper converged infrastructure with technology solutions that offer speed and agility. Is it done yet? Why isn't it done yet? It orchestration by CDW G people who get it find out more at CDW DOT com slash deltec. Tony Porta Cuenca. Is in the house. Ape. Boorda. who were the top former steelers most likely to return that's a great question I'd go. To Bj. Finney inch Joshua. Dobbs. Kinda, WanNa, you take Jesse James I and I don't think that'd be this season. Wes that list included both Vance McDonald and and Eric Apron as possible guys that they lose next year due to the salary cap ramifications. Ebro has a two year deal though I know I, I I I thought I saw that on there. I maybe he meant that they would just have to cut them but. If you do one of those guys than Jesse, James obviously a very solid number two. We saw him do his thing here for a number of years. He's a really good number two tight end so. I could see him coming back to you know Allah. What's the guy's name they they brought back. The Big Guy, who was just a blocker, but I think just games the better player than him. But yeah, I could see I could see them a bring him back at a at a he's already made a lot of guaranteed money in Detroit early at least he will have by the time his contract is over. So yeah, Jesse James would definitely be somebody I could see them bringing back. I. Would think he would be back to the number two receiver that would not be a bad deal. I don't think Joshua. Dobbs would be back. I really don't see them going in that direction. But bj Fini's really interesting one. It's already been said that. He might be cut in Seattle. He might not make the squad and Seattle gave him some very nice money. For the season and this would be a situation where the steelers. If they. If he does get caught they would not be in line for a another a draft pick. Because of that. So that's That's one of those things that That you would look at their that I would think that he would be a kind of guy with his experience that the May possibly invite back. Yeah, he's interesting because obviously they have Stephan with new ski is as their primary backup. In the middle there you know garden in center, and of course, Kevin Dotson this. Presumably. Guy For the future left guard. But. Maybe, somebody like Finney could be your future center if you decide to move on from from Markey's pouch in a couple of years. So yeah, he's. It's an intriguing thought right there. That's because he was. On a two year deal as well. Rhino tool I jus- convictions we're talking Jesse James I feel compelled to say, Jesse, as everybody agrees with you. Everybody that knows physics and you know gravity knows that he caught that ball how do you want to get into it? I'm GONNA laugh the. I would laugh a Dallas Quinlan here. Wait a week. The jags will drop another player. Sure. They will I mean they've got. Trevor. Lawrence. On their mind I will tell you that. Dante leads. Dante leave how much of a pay cut do you think Ben will take in order to keep everyone. I don't know if he's if he's a pay cut kind of guy. Honestly. I. Think he's I. Think he's made more money than any any quarterback. Ever on like on his contract so I don't I don't think. It's interesting to question. Would he be willing to take a? Re. A significant Paik because these guys are making thirty, thirty, five, million a year now. I don't I. Don't think he's taken it. Neither goes West Zero Miller, pay cut in the problem is. You can't? Pay Cut forty million dollars forty one million dollars that have been kicked down the road. The right that is owed to him, and that's something that I mean they could cut him today and they still have to pay that and that still goes against the salary cap With that, let's take one more question here. As A. After going on in the first round of the draft, which possess positions should be our second pick in two thousand, twenty, one middle linebacker outside linebacker safety. Ray Now I would probably think I mean it's way too early as but. Right now I would think that they would be looking at an offensive lineman with with them getting really long in the tooth and the tooth there. Tony your thoughts. I. Those other positions cover them depend on on. Inside Linebacker, you have Ulysses Gilbert I mean he's he's a lower round pick if develops into a decent backup than maybe you don't you're not so worried about that as far as outside. Alex Smith is currently in line to be that guy and safety I mean. You know they. Edmonds is he's still young and he's a former first round pick and of course, you have Minka so I don't know. If there's a real urgency there either. Snowman says if the if the steelers win number seven, this year does big. Ben Retire. I say no. The reason I say no is if he gets to three And he thinks that. He possibly thinks that he could tie bradshaw he's coming back I. I would not think that he would retire. What do you think thanks for the five dollars Snowman thank you. Yeah. Thanks minutes. Awesome. I think if he wins, he wins a third one this year he's playing with house money at that point you know and he's definitely GonNa come back Allah John Elway in the late nineties and try to go for another one. What does he have to lose at that point? How many quarterbacks? One three if he falls short, he falls short of four so. He would if he if he wins this year, he's definitely coming back next year. So this is a really funny thing here. And I just lost it well here porting US says this. What happens I bad gets a haircut or Tony Shaves will I can tell you that. Probably bad gets a haircut. You've already shaved because shaver shave every Monday as soon as this show is over, I am getting haircut. Somebody's coming to my house in cutting my hair and. My I I'm getting some personal service today and my wife said, Hey, what's GonNa be over 'cause? Christie's to cut your hair. So there you go So. There was another thing that I saw here and I did lose it. But there was a really quite but I do see this here Mark Davidson Mark Davidson excuse me says, Hey, mates, and as you know, mark is one of the newest members of the beat Ese podcast family along with several if you have not had a chance to check out steelers down under their new show that debuted on Saturday audio only and they were also on with me on tales from two am you could go back and check in see those guys on there too. It's a really good show. It's it's steelers. It's going to be everything steelers but with. A Perspective of. Somebody from Australia two fellows from two mates from Australia or two blokes whatever. They WANNA call it. So. then. Donald. says. This shave every money Monday man is structured like crazy. I haven't shaved at least two months. Every every every Monday I shea before right before the show and I let it go all the way through to the following Monday. I'm a Taurus and. We're really setting our routine. That's why I hate changed so. Just me how to work call and said D you answer my question I lost your question but I will wait until you throw that back up and I will promise to answer that I will not end the show without answering that. Big More of says. Bad is getting all dolled up watch out there now. Just just gotTa look good for for you in the live chat because that's pretty hard to do. It's getting shaggy a I had a mullet go enduring Cova, and then I finally got cut so. I would. You would get. No I said, I would I would I would. Say I'm getting a haircut soon but I know that the response is always going to be what hair but it's been. It's been nine weeks for me too. So it's probably time well, I get to. I have there's not a lot of genetic lotteries that I am ever going to win in this life but the only genetic lottery that I've ever won and I probably ever will is my hair because on forty eight years old, there's not a bald spot and it's really not. I'm in good shape with it. I mean. Not really what's eating either so I I'm lucky in that fact but. When it comes the everything else man ticking time bomb sometimes I really. I really worry about that. So. Here it is. I, think I found. I was watching the video. It looked like he was catching the back of the ball instead of getting in front of it. Should I be concerned? Tonia lets you take that one. Too hard when the answer I don't know I, mean I. Sound, like cliff Harris is still punk. He'd probably be a better better judge Jeffrey Benedict, he's really good with with with XS knows I'm not sure I don't know I I I. Maybe it was he was supposed to be working on something I I'm not sure from everything I've heard he he looks fantastic. So. I wouldn't be too concerned until until you see it in a game if he if he. Has. Trouble. Catching passes, then we have to worry about it but right now, I wouldn't. I wouldn't be concerned about that. Now you know what? I'm not going to get too concerned about that yet either and the reason being is they do have. The do you have a lot of guys working with those players and that's a that's something that though definitely work on but I know there have been a lot of praise coming his way and when Joe Haden makes that praise, the defender does not have to come in. Again on the other side of the ball doesn't have to come in and In Rings Bell like that when I say ring a bell. To Chatham up let's just put it that way. You would expect them to do it but not show Hayden but Joe Haden. Very, big team player Dallas Quinlan Houdini is next year's number one Klay Polar Johnson Tony. L.. Let's take that. I if he keeps going away going. I think John Johnson headed headed for that that. rarified air I think he could be a possible superstar. And that's why I think that they're really a loading this up that if they have to. If, they have to say goodbye to any free agent that these young players are being groomed to step into that spot. So with that, we're going to go ahead and wrap things up. And what we're going to ask you to do is check out all of the shows on the bts's family of podcast. Geoff Hartmann is been throwing in those great camp updates every day that they practice pads. So look out for one of those as well. Today if you didn't have a chance to check it out, let's ride was this morning. The steeler retro show is going to be tomorrow morning. So check that out as it's going to hit around five am on the audio only platform in. Then tomorrow night you're going to get the scarborough show everybody needs some SCO in their life and then keep on chicken out because we're going to morning shows all week. We are revenue up because what's happening? Two Weeks Tony Two weeks will be two weeks we'll be two hours and thirty nine minutes or so away from the steelers versus the giants week one of the twenty twenty regular season. And I gotTa tell you before we check out very generous Donation on the Super Chat and I. Hope I'm pronouncing this right I can both three seven. Or? I John. Three seven but thank you very much. My friend nine, hundred, ninety, nine, he says, next report. Should include gold Mike's that work for the BTS's steelers crew keep up the great talk coming. Thank you so much that that means a lot. Tony One of the reasons we do this is we do it because it's it's passion and we love it. Also. Gets wouldn't be fun to do without everybody here in the live chat. Great I, mean they're. Way better than social media. I mean I, tell you what the men and women in our live chat we were really we really appreciate you Thank you so much for all that you do for us. You inspire us and it's It's really a big deal remember two weeks and we're going to be talking to you everybody from bts's is going to be with you all the way. So thanks so much for. Being our. Family so We're GONNA take it out. But check us out remember and like my good friend the late Rowdy Roddy Piper would say just when you think you've got all the answers, we keep changing the questions. For Tony I'm Brian Anthony Davis will next week. Bye Now.

steelers Ben Retire basketball Tony One John Thompson John Thompson Jesse James WanNa Dante Harris CDW John Johnson Chadwick Bozeman Brian Anthony Davis Maryland Tony Name Villanova Jerome Lane NCAA Minka
R&B Star Raphael Saadiq Explores Addiction And Loss In 'Jimmy Lee'

1A

27:45 min | 2 years ago

R&B Star Raphael Saadiq Explores Addiction And Loss In 'Jimmy Lee'

"This message comes from NPR sponsor xfinity. Some things are slow like a snail races. Other things are fast like Xfinity X. by get get fast speeds even when everyone is online working to make WIFI simple easy awesome more at xfinity dot com restrictions apply. This is one A. I'm Joshua Johnson in Washington. Rafael Sadique has come a long way since his days in the R&B group Tony Tony Tony as a solo artist. He's gained a reputation for stylish sensuous. She was music at his new. Album is no exception it certainly the film even the Guy My friend. I'm feeling love from the album called Jimmy Lee it also discusses discuss some serious subjects like race religion criminal justice and the black experience he joins us from NPR New York to discuss the album Rafael Sadique welcome to one A. Thanks grabbing me before we get to the album. Tell us about Jimmy Lee who was he. Jimmy Lee was a he's my older brother and we're fifteen years his apart in age really good friend of mine and he is also very funny guy very loving and guy. Everybody in the family really cared about him really loved him but he he he had a heroin addiction at a very very young age from what I hear us you know maybe maybe twenty twenty years old or something like that so as. I got to know him he was pretty much. You know pretty much addicted so I only knew even more way so he was very loving guy so you know knew him mostly as an adult not so much growing up while guess so yeah grownup for me. Yeah I knew him you don't want while I was growing up in you know of course he was like I say he was fifteen years older than me so he came. I'm from my parents were in Monroe Louisiana and they came to Oakland so he was born in Monroe and then they came to Oakland. I was conceived here casino in the Bay area in Oakland. What was it like dealing with the tragedy of his death before this album came out. How if you kind of reconciled wrestled with it compartmentalized compartmentalized it? What's it been like before now will before before Jimmy Pass Away. Mother Brother Alvie passed away. He was murdered mm-hmm. When I was seven years old you know from some type of actually it was a sister of half sister mine sir actual boyfriend so dealing with that at seven and then losing my brother another desmond to to a drug issue he actually murdered himself after that and then I lost my sister who was a graduated from cal State Hayward. She was the parole officer very great Blues Singer and she died in car accident so I dealt with like four things and Jimmy was the last one he was the last one so I've just always dealt with with with music and really just trying to make sure my mom and my dad was pretty much. You know okay. I had to be really strong for family so I think that's Adele with it. I was SORTA at that point. You sort of become the the the point guy in the family so. I didn't really have much time to more and I had to just you know at the time I didn't notice it. I guess I was which is just dive into music records listening to records just namo music for just any great music that I was country rock classic rock whatever ges diamonds any Sam Cooke record and just live inside the music so was music more kind of Cathartic and therapeutic for you before it became a possible career path before you on the path to being part of Tony Tony Tony. No musical was always a big part of my life me my my family. There was always instruments in house. There was always a piano and my dad always had a some type of fender tweed amp and a house and guitar. I would go walk out the house and make a left turn. It was always bands somewhere around me and you know just music always felt like there was something that really felt good in at home and outside of my house and I just once yes I learned how to play one song with another good player that was always walking around looking for guitar players to to play with the base and I couldn't play chords so I would just knock doc on everybody's door and see who played guitar keyboards and try to find a drummer. Dow was sort of my life. Let's talk about the album. This is your first album. In years as we mentioned it's named after your late brother gives a sense of what she wanted this album to do maybe that was different from previous albums that she put out. I I wanted this album to be really the voice of my body of divorce of my inner feelings and lyrically. I wanted to to ride from space base where I wasn't just talking about. You know what you know. The basic you know love stories and it's okay to talk about love we all we all needed and I've made my share of those records and you know after making the way I see it which of the sixty s motown record you know my my best impression of smokey Robinson and David Ruffin and then right onto stone Rollin was by you know more of my still a sixties record with a lot more more lower with stone rolling in a lot more distortion but this record I wanted to be my journey and you know talk about me. Talk about more personal things in my life and let people in on my life to say this is me. This is what my life has been I just I felt like I could touch. My inner saw a little bit better. Fide look a little deeper myself and also a I would hit some other people who have been dealt dealt with some of the things that I'm talking about. It and I feel like this is all around us every day and I wanted to see how close I can. I can go without uh-huh without making it a preachy sound record. You know sometime you can make a record. It sounds preachy. Nobody really wants to hear it in. I like I still wanted to make a great album agree record so I think the challenge for me was how can I talk about things that I never talked about on a record but also have a good record at the same time so that was I was trying to do yeah and there is a lot of subtlety to the album I mean it's it's very direct and clear lyrically in its themes but it doesn't feel like it's trying to hit you over the head with themes the pre- pretty obvious they're kind of unambiguous but it because they're on ambiguous they don't have to be preachy and we want to play a few tracks from the album one in particular called rikers island as we continue our conversation with Rafael CDC you do deal with addiction in the album. You also talk about mass incarceration in the tracks rikers island and rikers island redux. Here's part of that track rikers island assumes on Thursday go ahead. He says something rikers island from the new album. Jimmy Lee Rafael talk about that tracking what she wanted to convey their clearly that that verse that second versus all about somebody somebody kind of in Coordin- fearing being sent to to rikers island yes well like I said growing up with with with Jimmy. Jimmy spent a lot of time in prison like in Santa Rita Prison San Quentin and I would always on my way to studio in Sausalito. I'll stop the San Quentin property is like this beautiful massive property and I always see people standing standing in art part that was making art hard to my brother. Jimmy would always make me are are make some type of wood fixture and he will send it to me or he would have given to me and once I started started. You know synonymous people in prison. You know my brother. I've I felt like he was celebrity. Move we would get up on Saturday and the drive to the prison and you think your brother is some type of celebrity. 'cause we're all you know. SORTA packing up to go visit him and then once I figured out you know when I say like a let's let's go and he said he couldn't leave. started to realize he wasn't a celebrity. He was locked up using president and start looking at how many people were locked up in prison and how many lawyers when I looked at the the lawyers cars on other side of the fence there're. BMW's and you know the all these nice cars and now we're looking at the other side is fence. It's and I see all these Israeli. You know old cars and I could see how the system was making so much money off. You know people being locked up in prison and of course as you get older older you can watch a lot of youtube stories like Jay Z. Is You know and everybody's talking about rikers island. Everybody's trying to you know figure the system mount get people out of prison even crashing. His nose is getting out of prison but I've always had this thing about prison. Ah for my visiting my brother. Just I never understood why anybody WanNa go but then I started to figure out. Some people trap of some people as things are set up for them. I am you know to be locked up. Everybody in President is now supposed to be in prison so there's a lot of people wrongly imprisoned some people i. I won't say anybody belongs in prison. I say people do wrong things. In you. Know How do we how do we figure it out but you know it's just so many when I watched lashed Eva Dune as you know doc right I just I was really shocked about it. So yeah the the the netflix documentary thirteenth about mass incarceration in America. There's much more WANNA discuss with Euro. Fail as we continue and we'll talk more about the album Jimmy Lee. We've got some great questions and comments from some of your fans definitely have talk about some of your prior work with Tony Tony Tony and with Lucy Pearl. I'm Joshua Johnson and you're listening to Rafael CDC and to one A. From W. a. m. u. and NPR UH by the time name some kids support for this podcast and the following message come from Google from Connecticut to to California from Mississippi to Minnesota. Millions of American businesses are using Google tools to grow online the grow with Google Initiative supports small businesses by providing fighting free digital skills workshops and one on one coaching and all fifty states helping businesses get online connect with new customers and work more productively learn more at Google dot dot com slash growl. You probably know a lot about former vice president Joe Biden but what you might not know is how his faith was tested when his wife. Hyphen daughter were killed in a car accident car God while I got really angry. I shouted out why me why would he do this to me. How can you be a God. Let this happen. Biden tells that story and explains his run for the presidency in an exclusive interview with the NPR politics podcast subscribe. This is one A. I'm Joshua Johnson. We're talking with R&B superstar Rafael Sadique. His new album is called Jimmy Lee. I really really liked this album but I think the only thing about the album. That kind of made me go like what is that. It's only thirty nine minutes long like I was. I was getting into it it and then it was over and I just wanted more music. What made you decide to make the album less than an hour. I'm GonNa I feel like you know. There's so many hours in a day. People have so many things to do and I do too so you WanNa like I just want to give people a nice little dose. I feel like we all needed a you need a little drop of water of music in the world today and I just wanted to be a part of giving somebody just dose of it that they can listen to it. They could process it. Listen to learn it in in. We cannot be a part of something that very short but there's always a concert. There's always a show where I can extend the vamps in play a little bit longer. You know so that was sort of the idea. I also watch a lot of adults win the college chicken in a way to album to such. I just kind of you know that's how I watch. I watch cartoons like cartoons like what three seconds now sh- new cartoons right. We'll make the record like that. Yeah I hear you. I mean you you mentioned watching adult swim and cartoon network in there are more shows like you know robot chicken and snowbound universe that are fifteen minutes long that like the episode is between Eight and eleven minutes and so they can do in fifteen minute increments but I I also noticed that some albums kind of in the era of spotify and streaming tend to be longer than a typical album used to be. How do you find the digital revolution in music affecting the way that you make and release music? I think is great is some point. I think is great that people can just if you don't have any ways to put music. Got You know the you know the the Owais put music you have to have a label which I call labels the energy unlike CNN label so the energy I think is great for people to it just be able to make a song that night and drop it that night but also I think people get super excited and they make twenty three records when really if you put pig ten or eleven records it makes you pick your best and I feel like you put twenty three records. You you really only have eleven records in the rest of the wreckage. You just wanted wanted people to hear what people should hear those ten or eleven records. I think what's your song writing process like. How do you know when a song or when a track on an album is done for me. I think the record is done when I could listen to it in and I can hear all obvious stories. I can you all the parts and the for me. Is You know the guitars. is in the right spot when everything you know it's like moving in the house. You know when on the furniture is sitting right in for me. I I just know when the furniture is. I sit in the right place. Let me play some of your previous music. You've had quite a long career and I think a lot of folks. No you from your time in the group Tony Tony Tony One of our favorite groups are yours for the nineties with lots of hits including this this one I think yeah and Canada from Tony Tony Tony you wonder how you reflect on some of this music you and Tony Tony Tony had some stone cold jams in in that day that are just kind of indelible. Yeah it was pretty it was pretty amazing time in my life to to to become a songwriter and to write songs exactly matter to to people for a long time in I love that I love that time. I love that I love anniversary and you know every night sometime I just I just just sing it without any music and people just they sing when we will define things when people asking me to sing at their wedding and I'm like no. I'm really not a crooner guy. Ah More like a band Guy WanNA guitars drums from La Music and you know I don't have to decline in other times yeah. Although I will say you know on my mom's anniversary every year I'll call her up and I'll just put the phone to spotify and I'll plot thirty yes. She gets a good laugh at it because it's one of those. We've had eh like for such a long time. It's just one of those kind of you know. All those touchstone songs that music should be your music outlive you. That's what we all say Valencia emailed. I love Mr CDC. My favorite song is ask of you but I enjoy Tony Tony Tony Song to this day real talent. You can't beat it of gotTA. Check got your new album. We are speaking to Raphael Sadique about his new album Jimmy. We'll have more with Rafael in just a minute. Stay close support for this podcast and the following message come from Uber Uber is committed to safety and to continuously raising the bar to help make for safer journeys for everyone one all driver partners go through a multi step safety screen before their first trip including driving and criminal history checks and uber is introducing a brand new safety technology called ride check which detective a trip goes unusually off course and check in to provide support to learn more about Uber's commitment to safety visit Uber. Dot Com com slash safety. Hey there it's Joshua. Thanks for listening to the one a podcast. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave us a rating that helps other people find the show and don't forget you can catch the the news roundup at the end of every week an incident. Nashville that shocked the Latino community a computer designed to control the entire Chilean economy. A Martian invasion in Ecuador. Talk is back with a brand new season. NPR SPANISH-LANGUAGE PODCAST will take you around Latin America to show you the fascinating strange and compelling stories of the region subscribe and listen every Tuesday. This is one A. I'm Joshua Johnson. We're speaking with our. Nba Star Rafael Sadique you may know him from his work with the legendary group Tony Only Tony Tony Out of Oakland California. His new solo album is called Jimmy. Lee Cynthia emailed one word to describe Rafael Sadique Dope. I've always been a big fan of his music. Even named my first born son Sadique after him. I applaud him for making music that addresses so many issues that plague US especially the black and Brown community. I'm looking forward to diving deep into Jimmy. Lee with regards to that now kind of reflecting electing on where you are in your career. How do you balance making music that is more specifically socially conscious versus just making music that sensuous sore for fun. Well you know when you listen to your your your journey. Your music your journey. You threaten threat of music. You just always want to grow in and make you want to add onto what you've done. I think at this point you know wherever you're at in life issue reflect your record. It should reflect what you're saying. You know you can't live or honey. Some people can't some people can just I need to single. I need this record in you. Know Big ups to the people that can do that. I'm just a person who likes to reflect on where we're what I'M GONNA. Do what I'm living through and hopefully people are into that now. That's not saying that I will make maker the next record completely different. It has nothing to do with any social pro it probably won't I think my dad said used to say to me rest in peace. He say say to me. When you read the newspaper of Sun. Read the cartoon section. I because things are very serious so my next album may just be a fun album for people just like you know maybe go to the beach. Go on vacation or just do something wild so I like to give people choices not too long ago. We were visiting Minneapolis Saint Paul with series one across US America and I had the pleasure of being Minnesota public radio when they weren't the Minnesota State Fair and I share the stage with the current incarnation of Tony Tony Tony any chance of you and the ban getting back together again doing anymore projects in the future well. I'm thinking about what we're talking about doing an EP like just an EP and maybe doing I want a small run just to go out and thank fans and stuff or you know supporting us and also to show you some are my nephews and some of the kids in the family that you know we can still get together when you know what we do so that's that's here and there but there is a show that we're doing and I think next month there's there's a a bay area reunion with like. Mc Hammer digital underground and then I'm going to appear with me myself and Dwayne wiggins my brother and Timothy Christian Riley and we're GONNA do like we're GonNa do a show like a real full out Tony Show. Oh Hey I should ask you. Where did the name Tony Tony Tony come from because ninety all named Tony now actually came from Antonio Bandera he was in he was untouchables us and his name was Tony and the sharp shooter and he hired him to be a part of the gang and when they went to visit him the way his hair was very like a talion in slicked back. My brother used to have really fine slick air when he go to school and he's he had this joke. Senate teaches whenever call him Dwayne because his hair looks so slick they will call him. Tony Tony Tony like an Italian mobster and so one day we were planning this wedding reception in before we had a record deal. The three of us in the three of us were being like the police in covering sting songs type of things in the guy goes into group and my brother just looks at the gun goes. Don't eat Tony only donate when they said they was like Donny Donny Donny is like ooh has a Reagan now. What's his name group. We got it. We also got a question from cat who tweeted tweeted. If there's any chance of Lucy Pearl Union fingers crossed. We know that quite a few people remember at least this one of your big hits from Lucy per yourselves. Bob Redmon fits the extorted asked Mel. Let's north so glad that is now women sexual name donning. It's nice. We have a big guests older folks. I don't WanNa won't dance tonight by Lucy Pearl Raphael. What about chances of a Lucy Pearl Union. I'm not sure I mean I would love to do that but you know hey I'm. I'm very busy these days so it's Kinda hard to say what could happen in but I would love to do that but you know. I'm very very busy these days. I would just want you to know that there is at least one person studio one over for me who could not help don both her hands in the air when dance tonight star plant and she was she was just jamming getting the studio so just so you know just in case you're considering which one has has the most impact you at least sent one of our hosts. Jerry she. She had a Pavlovian response to Lucy Pearl. So just you just way okay that when she s she oakland Jerry I'm looking over Jerry. You're not from Oakland are you. I'm looking at it to see if she if she was are you from Oakland. Yes she is yes. She is yes she. Yes that's okay. I see all right. Well okay so maybe that maybe it we'll factor. Oh I'm sorry Oh she's not from Oakland. She's she's cool like an Oakland but she says somebody from Oakland so around the area so I thought maybe yeah Saint Louis. She says she's from Saint Louis and ecological city to Oakland. Yes and also a city with a strong musical. Legacy and heritage is kind of interesting to hear from from artists from Oakland what being from their means to them before. I let you go. I'm curious to know because a lot of our listeners listen to you. Who are you listening onto right now. Who is on your playlist. Who are you listening to right now but it's either inspiring you or that. Just that that you like that impresses you I've been listening to the prince originals a little bit and Lottery Charles Lota Lot of Etta James Little Bit Steve Lacy definitely always listen to neil young and Neil young he yeah no young love no young and Al Green. I feel like their records sonically sound similar a lot of drum sounds a like you know the drums and snare drums Alice Allison music sonically informalities and stuff like that but I like records the group's they make me you know hear them into see we're doing and that's how that's how. I like to make records people the grace. If you wanted to be like the great you've got to study the great so that's what I do Rafael City. His new album is called Jimmy leap. It's out now Rafael. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for talking to US thank you this conversation was produced by Jonquil and Hill and edited by Miranda full more. You can learn more about our team online at the one eight dot org slash staff. This program comes is to you from W. A. M. U. Part of American University in Washington distributed by NPR until we meet again. I'm Joshua Johnson. Thanks for listening. This is one A. Uh.

Tony Tony Tony One Jimmy Lee Oakland Joshua Johnson Rafael Sadique NPR Tony Tony Jimmy Rafael CDC Jimmy Lee Rafael rikers island US Tony Tony Out spotify Washington Mother Brother Alvie president Lucy Pearl
Knockouts and 3 Counts  Episode 110 BCWA Got Your Six and UFC 246 Preview with Mathew Priest

PodcastDetroit.com

53:39 min | 1 year ago

Knockouts and 3 Counts Episode 110 BCWA Got Your Six and UFC 246 Preview with Mathew Priest

"You're listening to the PODCAST DETROIT visit. WWW dot I'd past Detroit Dot Com. Before information everyone is the mandate. What Germany's worst day? Right here to do. Knockout the drink out remember everywhere. This is Don Western. I'm telling you knock out to three counters. The podcast bathing mixture. That's a winter tech out because nobody like me. They're the real dale a jake the snake Roberts that we know we need to listen to the Jenner's shoot up dance. This is a bring upon her world. Television champion Aka Shane teaboy the baddest champagne. Can you ever seen going. You're listening to knock outs with recap what up to everybody. This is Kyle and you are listening to knockouts and three counts as you can see. I'm not solo here tonight in the in the studio. Oh you've got a mathew priest from be. CWA How you doing brother man let them know where they can find you standing here. It's an honor to be back here with knockouts and three counts always a pleasure likewise my friend so as we've told you in our promo for the show there's a big show going down this weekend you've got. CWA got your six. This Saturday Wind Dot Michigan Copeland Center on Fourth Street. So as we go into this as we go into this show. What specifically are you looking forward to? Because there's been a lot of big changes ageism be CWA with some big stars lately. Well absolutely I mean the match. Of course I'm looking forward to them. Oh this is the main event. I mean Coming removed from cataclysm the biggest show of the a year Coming off a thirty minute. Main event match up there with just a main claiming his W.H. Championship defeating Orlando Christopher and me one of the best matches overseen matched. I'm so honored who've been a part of He defended that championship against former guests. Here of your guys this show and the number by by far the number one contender. The FRO gun derailed three thousand and that should be one hell of a match up there and you have to wonder. We're only three weeks when move from cataclysm in just in Maine and had that major back injury back in March had a hard time coming back from it. He's back. Christopher just took them thirty minutes to his limit how was that back in a hold up on a quick three week turnaround with fro gun. WHO's healthy and ready to go in his prime shape Looking to take that championship. That's the match most looking forward to so tell me about that so we saw a big change from just in Maine you know if you listen to the last time. He was here on the show with us you know he was. You know the clean uncut you know your your classic baby face all that kind of stuff and then he defiantly clearly. He's been listening to the show because what did he do. He kicked him in the Dick. He's been listening awesome so first of all. What are your thoughts on the attitude change? We've seen here from just in Maine and do you think that that's the thing that he needed to put him over the top to get him to the title. See I don't look at it as an attitude you change it all refereeing that match. I was right in there with both those guys. I got to see it first. Hand on what was happening and what took place is the B- Cwa Championship. It's the championship. That drives these these competitors it makes them Wanna be the top and the pinnacle of the organization. Justin main fought plot for eleven years to get that championship. He finally got it he never lost it. It was taken from him due to an injury. He had to forfeit that championship. So here he is in the middle all the match twenty five thirty minutes deep fighting his ass off giving everything he's got to Orlando. Christopher Christopher keeps kicking out because the championship means just as much Orlando Christopher. The pride that it takes to be the champion. ABC W way both these guys are putting it. On the line there exemplifying it Orlando Christopher. Just a main had nothing. Nothing left in in his arsenal out of Arrows if you will in the quiver and Finally you know the kick them in the Dick. I didn't see it didn't matter if I did lead. Cause I said I'm ten to twelve -CATION or three cow or cow autumn. Sorry but he kicked him in the Dick as you said hit him with another jam. Ko Oh and that was enough to put him away in reclaim the be CWA championship and as the guy who's the legacy of CWA. The caretaker. I I have nothing but respect for just the main for what he did. I don't see it as an attitude change. I see as more of an obsession. I can totally respect that. So would that be instead. Ed since you said this is the match you're looking forward to I'm GonNa put you on the spot who's going to win O on the spot see get a little bit deeper into into a here with justin main like I said three weeks removed coming off his back. Injury re reclaimed the championship. He's proven that he'll do whatever it takes to keep the championship Campione ship now if justin main gets into a desperate situation with frog on I think he's GonNa walk out the belt that doesn't mean he's going to due to win the match. I could see him kicking him in the Dick again getting himself. Squalls is technically frozen. Wins the match. Just in Maine keeps the belt. I could see a situation like that because that wouldn't surprise me. Seeing the desperation adjusted means going to do take the balance programs. No no pushover. No Easy Fro gun wanted championship just bad as anybody. The battle for champion November came down to these two men. They were the last two in the ring. Funding for that opportunity to face Orlando Christopher Cataclysm. So frozen wants it. Just as bad. He's had his is opportunity. He knows what it's like to be in that ring in a main event obesity w way in the cope with the people that noise environment in thrive so frog has been there once. He's back in the main event. He's coming for that belly. Wants to just as bad but I have to say the desperation that just amazing to go through to keep his belt. I think justice is is gonNA walk out of got your six still be severely champion. I'm not gonNA say when's the mashed though like I said I mean that matches definitely one that I'm looking forward to as as we've talked talked about multiple times on the show I mean fro become a good friend of the show and I definitely think that he's going to pose some different challenges justice in that it's to me. It's a completely different match than what we saw with Orlando Christopher at Orlando Christopher. You never know if you're going to get the crazy stuff you don't know if you're GONNA get technical wrestling side but with a guy like Fraga and you know you really don't know what you're going to get with him because he can really go either way good guy bad guy however you wanna play it whatever it takes to get the job done and on top of that. He's got the wealth of experience that comes with it absolutely so that matches definitely one that I'm looking forward to Another one that is going to be on the card We talked to elk at the last BE CWA show. And from what I see him as motives are going to run it back. What are your thoughts on that? What are your thoughts on how that match played out at cataclysm you? We got to try the time traveling. Caveman Alka a good personal close friend of Mine that I'm happy to see. NBC W Egan's opportunities returning there and then you have the Lord is Modi who bought a question mark surrounding this guy dark. He's mysterious. He's tough to talk to but Thing with US motives He's he's he's proved that he's bad attitude. He's going to go on the ring. He's going to do what he wants when he wants he. He's been nothing but disrespectful every time he's been from the crowd whether Beatles opponents whether it be to the ring announcer to the fans. East a bad egg and elk is the polar opposite is your classic good guy versus bad guy a A matchup and I'm really looking forward to it. I'll be biased here and go with ALC- however You know as motives the guys in tremendous physical condition. He's got a few screws loose. He's very darken. And he's proven he'll go at all cost hurt or maim his opponent. But I'll have to go alka getting the three count here. Good good always always prevails over evil right not in the presidential race skidding head to but that being said man I hi this one is going to be interesting for me because I haven't seen as motives before really before we got be. CWA We. I've seen elk. I've seen since I was in in high school and then it happens to be related to a good friend of mine so I've seen elk for quite a long time With the way he was talking to the interview that we did with them here at a wall. All at BBC WM cataclysm I would say that L. seems primed and ready for another shot at his motives and if he's not on top of his game I think l. l. could be the person that we're GONNA see. Take that one so if I got to choose one I'm going to go with Elkin this one that being said tell me what your thoughts are on the the integration. Now of the House of Truth K.. So you've got movado. Who anybody that pays attention to his social media you know that? He's one of the trainer there and has a long standing relationship with truth Martini. And as you saw at CWA cataclysm truth kind of took things to another level knocked. The bubbas Bell Rang Bubbas Bell on that one and with the how the book of Truth and so tell me what your thoughts are on them coming into BC w what you see from them and gracefully chose got another match here at BC. W This month to don't have slurs kind of a will kill two birds stoned at once here with this this one So Kogo to them Avodados side of things so Machado being the bump and all these reunion in two of his students gracefully chosen they attack the bump and uglies after their big reunited a reunion match up there feel good moment for for the fans and then these two kids fresh out of trim of three or four months removed from from being one of their trainers but truth Martini. The ever the opportunist that he he is sees this as an opportunity for these two young guy. Don US and Oh my God Shaman These two kids and they see their opportunity opportunity in you. May I don't know how the back story goes there. I'm speculating here. Assuming they want the truth. Martini said how do we make an impact. How do we get our name out there as soon as possible? We don't want to go and pair twos like most of these other students do and truth. Martini said why don't you attack. MOVADO MOVADO and Bubba on a bump and that's how you make your name and they made the name for themselves. They made a statement that night and then they they pull off the victory against the bump and uglies leaves a cataclysm and Truth Martini's there he's guiding Gracefully chosen career. He's helping these kids out on the way because they are very inexperienced but we take truth Martini Martini. You take his knowledge his experience his I mean he was a hell of a wrestler when he did compete. But I mean this guy was voted ring of honor honor manager of the decade. He's no slouch when it comes to managing talent so he automatically elevate gracefully chosen to another level they assault Movado Movado. Nevado now is a chip. Because he doesn't know what I mean. These are his students and if anybody out there who's ever taught students or even mentor somebody in the workplace. Replace and you take that seriously. You get stabbed in the back by that person that person turns on you rat you out. Whatever that sucks that feeling is one of the worst feelings of your life so I a feel for a guy like Nevada who has given his time? His energy his efforts to helping these kids learn the craft of professional wrestling. Get out there and then just to get stabbed in the back act by them so they can make a name of Otto. I'm sure deep down. He respects it. Nick Cataclysm he kind of said. Hey that's what the bumblebees did. And he offered that. Respect only only to get attacked more than they have. Tanner Knicks from the House of truth. Come out and join in on the assault. And they're taking it to a whole `nother level where it was truly trying to disrespect. Respect Movado 'cause again truth. Martini knows if you disrespect a veteran and well respected man like motto. That's how you make your name for yourself. That's how graciously chosen. And and Hanner Knicks are gonNA make an infant cells are going to get themselves more. Bookings with more bookings comes more. Opportunities with more opportunity becomes more money with more money becomes more fame. That's the fastest way to the pay window. If you will for these three kids and I mean has every right to be pissed an hurt and you know kids turned on him so before I get to my next question and give maybe my thoughts on the turmoil within the house. The truth if you're looking for a house that's built on truth. You know you got the boys. From Stransky and company Realty Eighty Stransky and company realty the top producing real estate team that specializes in individual strategy over the top service can continued success for their clients. They're the real estate easy button. If you're looking to buy-sell invest call them at two four eight five six three nine four four nine or e mail them at Admin Stransky and company DOT COM. Follow them on instagram and facebook at Stransky and company DOT COM. Look look we plug these guys every week and it's not a joke. I'm telling you all you gotta do go. Look at their instagram. Go look at their facebook. Look houses that these guys are putting out in their quality people people man. They're not gonNA dickey around on prices and try to high ball yet and all that stuff. So if you're looking to build your own house a truth go see the guys at Stransky and companies shout out to the homie match. Stransky that being said My question to you is. Can you explain a little bit to those. Who maybe aren't familiar with truth? Martini are teeny. What what the allure is? And why gracefully chosen would want to turn on their on their coach like that as you mentioned a little bit you know. He's the manager of the year for ring. Bonner there's our manager of the decade bring our. There's a reason for that but I feel like a lot of today's younger fans because kind of been out of the indie scene Kinda sorta other than the House of the truth for a little while. Maybe they might not know as much about now when I first started. Going to the indies around around the area I saw truth everywhere I went. So I- full. Well know what truth. Well Truth Martini brings to the table. So for those who don't know let let them know you know what is the big lower when it comes to truth Martini. I think truth Martini's. He's one of the smartest men not just in the state of Michigan and locally but one of the smartest men ever lace a pair of boots ever walked through a curtain He's extremely cerebral. Extremely intelligent and he understands how how human in a motions work and how to play into people in as what made a manager of the decade is yeah. He's he's smart but he understands how to strategize opponent find their weakness in the manipulate that and direct his talent that he's guiding to get there but as a performer as a wrestler even before that he would do the exact same thing. He's a master. Strategist I mean if anybody's seen him wrestling and this is a guy who probably was a few years. There's ahead of his time in small guys his size in in the late nineties and early two thousand just it was so hard to make a name for yourself as a wrestle. This is the guy it was still the land of the giants absolutely this guy who wb had on their radar. They were giving him try outs. They were intrigued by him. He's wrestling Eddie. Guerrero meals smackdown. And he's getting these opportunities That small guys weren't getting In in that's just how good and how smart he was and then you know. He added career ending injury unfortunately for him and he turned to training and fortunately was able to turn it to managing and get get the opportunity to bring about that he got but but for him now to be grooming Ming these students when you look at ninety percent of every show Michigan. Those students are trained by truth Martini. Him The guy's outstanding He has wrestlers right now. Every major company going There's there's a reason for that. He's one of the best trainers in on the planet and Outside of his training ability a lot of that is understanding how to promote his talent and move them out and I believe he is. I don't know if he's the guy who told graciously chosen do it again. I'm speculating. I would assume bracelet. The children went to truth and said how do we do this and truth. Martini said Hey. You WanNa make an impact is what you do. Tanner Knicks a Kiddo. Same class friends with gracefully. Chosen sees. That says what the Hell am I doing. How do I fast track myself? I'll tack motto to. I'll stick up for my boys soon. You trained together. You know you've experienced training or your brothers and it was. It's a totally different aspect than you know. I mean it's a bond that you can't really explain you know when you when you put in that work with somebody whether it's Eh may box in wrestling I would assume wrestling's Aceh says I haven't done pro wrestling but I mean I know when you train with people there's a reason they call them teams you know even though it may be just you in a cage or just you and a ring. You'd nobody really gets their without you know having a team and speaking of May we'll get into that a little bit later you've got UFC to forty six this weekend. You got the a huge fight between cowboy SIRONI and Conor McGregor. We're both going to give our thoughts on who we think is going to win and give our picks that being said you know it's funny. We're talking about gracefully chosen. Because they're watching right now. Okay and so with that being said that leads me into my next question for you. So we saw studio eighty-six come out victorious at Cataclysm. Okay so where. Where do you see the tag team division? CWA going next. Do you think we've seen the last of Studio eighty-six versus h three R D and. Do you see gracefully. Chosen trying to take a crack. We've seen the last two eighty six and a strategy At all but ungracefully chosen got a championship match. This Saturday. I mean it's it's signed sealed sealed delivered and we were talking about that you've truth. Martini representing grisly chosen. Yeah they only have a handful of months of experiences. Two guys studio eighty six both over a decade it in a long time. They have my blackball in their corner. Is he able to combat truth. Martini will find out Sixers win the belts with. They're coming off a wild nine months highly emotional highly volatile feud and rivalry with h three. And that's all they've focused on and how to win. How how to be a certainty? It wasn't even so much a winning the championships beating a strategy. It was staying together in the United States. Do to eighty six and I have to wonder if that type of emotion all of that focus and energy into just defeating the keeping united takes their eyes off of up and coming team like gracefully chosen. They may take them for granted and a I know Maserati Rick and Bill Martel better than just about anybody on this planet and they're not gonNA take anybody lightly but I got my upset alert going for this one really. I really would not be shocked at all if if bracelet chosen with truth. Martini and the rest of the House of Truth Truth. And you have to take that into consideration. Catches Studio. Eighty six nap and catches Amana on an off week. It's a it's a definite. I mean for those football this this is your trap game. This is your your your total Cinderella story upset. And it's there it's all. The makings are for an upset. You know you mentioned the the upset alert with them and I definitely it definitely makes things interesting because when you add the fact as we've mentioned you know you got truth Martini on the outside. I mean that's another thing that you got to look forward to and that match to me is one of the ones that I'm most intrigued to see what happens. For the fact that Studio eighty-six has been so entrenched in their war with age. Three are you know. Are they going to be able to turn their attention. You know fully on gracefully chosen As it should be right now because as you said they're not only you know young and hungry you've got you know somebody who's wise ring savvy. He's got he's got at the mind I mean even if he's not the one in the ring he's like the one moving chess pieces as in Blackwell's a hell of a chess player himself though uh-huh and he's GonNa have studio eighty six going that you give gift to think of. You know big old shorty out there as well and the elemental surprise. Eighty six has but this this all started. I mean gracefully chosen at almost a grass roots online campaign to help get this title shot going they. They started barking. They ran their mouth and and they got their match so good for them on that that is the only thing that I think is in studio. Eighty six favor is now. They have a bulletin Alton Board material. They have motivation to go out there and show these kids some respect but they still could be caught napping in going back to your comment. ACIG's surety is not a team that just goes away right. You can never count out. Seeing appearance by them in May may have lost the award studio eighty six. But they're the kind of guys that they'll want to still get that last shot in. You saw how they won the championships. Tredinnick makes his debut out the nowhere unannounced total surprise. Could we see surprised. I don't know but I I think sums bill you give me money in Vegas and this is Zahn there and I might take the diamond throwing money on the dog on this one so that leads me into the exact question. I was GONNA ask do you. You know we shared a lot of it at our page aged knockouts and three counts podcast. If you're watching US live you already are following the page. If you're not you need to be we posted a lot of the promos that went back and forth between blackwell well and Gracefully chosen My question to you is knowing black. WHOA very well as well? Do you think that the banter and the bullshit. Oh Shit from gracefully chosen has gotten in studio eighty six head much less Mike Blackwell now. They got in their head. I think got their attention And that might that might be the detriment of graciously chosen but without that they don't get this match. This match doesn't happen of graceful chosen. Doesn't what they did. So it's a double alleged sorta catch twenty two if you will On how that that took place. They got through eighty six attention but hid this master's been announced without any of that banter. That's where I I would hundred percent throw all my money. UNGRACEFULLY chosen pulling off the upset here. Six would have they. Would they would take them lightly. I know those guys. Great wrestlers gay performers when the game when when the lights on. They're going to go but they're also susceptible to getting a little bit ahead of themselves But Blackwell's not going to let that happen Mar tells a AH traveled champion everywhere he's Gone Maserati Rick's a former champion everywhere. He has gone so these guys know what it takes to be champions in order to take the win the big match You know was now. I'm talking myself into leaning series. I and I know that it's there. No Blackwell's going to have them ready. A Ah when the bell rings I hate to say it I know Martel in the Union. Tell Martel and you can tell Rick you can tell both these guys a hundred times but when the bell rings are just going to see two young kids and they're gonNA go out there. They have found. They're going to get in their element and that's when they're going to be suffer. Suspect it to getting the The upset alert that. I'm predicting here so my next question for you is when it comes to to. This is completely for you. So you mentioned how you were in the ring for the Orlando Christopher Justin main match first of all. What was it like What was it like for you being back in the ring in the Zebra stripes? I know you've done it before. So what was it like for you being in a high pressure situation like that and you know what do you think you know. Do we see you ever again or do you think that was a one time. Just for the circumstances let me. It was the night before I found out I was refereeing. The match at the official press conference. Afri- I was getting text messages while we were during it and I don't know if it was the banter between Orlando Christian just in Maine and I kind of said. Hey I Aston so they want me to rough it so so yeah I'll do it It meant a lot to be asked to referee that matching into experience. The first hand they have the best you know seat in the House for it I just tried to do the match justice and call it right down the middle keep it clean and then declare a winner. And I did that. If I'm call the Pentagon I'll I'll I'll down the stripes again. It was if I have no problem doing that Yeah something something I would do do if asked for sure so with that being said is there what are is there anything else other than the things that we mentioned that sticks out to you is something that people are on on the fence on whether they should get tickets and come to be. CWA or not this weekend. Is there any other things on the card that stick out to you record like just stick out like hey this this is something you need to check out what there's three things that pop up in my head. The national ones talking about the sleeper match. That has I mean. We talk about ten nine ten months of rivalry between thirty in studio eighty six One of the major catalysts to that is Nick Braxton and UH Michael T DANIELS MD These guys were tag team partners. They won the championships their rivalry almost in a way. Even those nick. Braxton officially joins the stew eighty six until you are the Father Tony Thunder. You have joined us. What's up brother man? That's me so we were just getting into the match between Nick. Braxton and Daniels so let me know what your thoughts are at match brother. That mess has so much history man That goes back to the no more sorrow days when they were attacked team there. I don't want to be wrong. But maybe four or five time beast. Taking champions they were the best of friends they have history. You know they They came a long way together and to see them Kinda split apart and to see tiger. MD Tucker dangles whatever's going by now turn on the Braxton. That was was just you know it was kind of like a soccer to a lot of people. If you knew the backstory in how well connected in how much chemistry they had as a tag team so i. I think this may be the first time against each other. But it's definitely going to be interesting match. That being said I mean if you check out in the archives which you can check out at apple podcast. Google Voice spotify iheartradio YouTube. All those. We've had we had them on when they were still no more sorrow you know when we interviewed him. I'll be honest with you. I Yeah I didn't really see them. You know splitting they seem tight-knit. Everything seemed cool. They were still going for the tag titles and all that and then one day click. Here's the switch. Now now you've got where we're at currently that's a match that I definitely would agree with you. I think that one could be asleep or just for the history. That's involved in it. 'cause you always fight harder when you got a reason to absolutely. There's there's a lot of story back story. That's going to be fulfilled in that match especially with them. Finally getting their hands on each other for the first his time after the ball out one on one The first time and it's noticed qualification. And you've got guys like directing Paul. You Got Shorty. You Big Daddy again. How you know? Whatever whoever's calling him? Whatever these days but Braxton Daniels one on one not q the The rivalry. They're bad blood. I mean that's the match. No one's talking about but the match that that I'm most excited to see because Because it has it. It's the culmination of a year. Long long rivalry so tony. We broke down a lot of the big matches for you. What's the thing that you're most looking forward to this Saturday it'd be? CWA got your six and there's been a lot of A lot of matches Gaining traction leading up to this event you got a Movado and the house truth and what's been going on with them and saw the last show Gracefully Chosen Kinda got the upper hand on bumping uglies and a lot of grabbed the microphone. Told truth to get out of the ring and said that those were his students coming from the House of truth in that that story kind of Borland to a point where maybe one day we may see truth. Martini himself off back in action for the first time in a long time against my bottle you know I just like going The main event of course just a main finding minding his hands back on the title getting back into that main event spot pun intended and a frog on man. He's been really gained traction himself. Also man this is a lot to look forward to this. BEEN COMING UP. Hey Tony So. Can you just corroborate with me that Clearly Justin main listen to us when he came on the show. 'cause what did he do to be Justin in Maine Man. What adjusted main due to be? Just a may well. You know what I meant to say. When the title I misspoke just in Maine beat Orlando Christopher? He kicked him in the Dick. He he listened. Abra I mean has got to work somehow and it's a tried and tried and true method just ask Rick flair yeah. There was two other things I did want to bring up real quick. You said the look forward to So we plugged the Braxton and Daniels while one not q for some of the other thing thing. This Logan Open Challenge for the Alliance Championship. Th The dread king is the alliance champion. He just battled to death Red Army time even data and Atom Wick. Great match etched to pile driver off the top rope son of a bitch now. This is an open challenge and with the way the alliance championship works as you can have one you. You can have twenty even have a hundred guys challenging for all once because the belt is on the line of Logan's wrestling. That belt is on the line and that match and I think more details details may come come out here in the coming days possibly day of the show but that right there is worth the price of emissions. You could come out. You don't know what you're going to get. He doesn't always fighting. I don't know who's he's fighting. I just know that some guys are gonNA walk the curtain. They're going to get a crack of the alliance championship and odds are with the way that championships you're going to see a new champion Just based based off of The history of that championship. So you bring up something that Tony WanNA jump in there. Go I mean Tony. I mean we've been telling you we need to get you a belt Bro. What fuck man? You know Dr Sologub is definitely a fighting champion. You know he's he's definitive time and time out. He's he's definitely one of those guys that you want to keep your eye on May I don't really know how to explain him to to the people who hasn't seen him before. If you haven't check him out in the archives we've had a few times absolutely if you haven't seen him and what he can do in the range definitely. Don't miss this because as I now I didn't want to call you days but as long as you just said he's writing camping. You don't know who's GONNA come back. Ernie it could end up being league where he may defend the title somebody else come through the curtain and he may have to definitive game. I mean who knows that. That's kind of fighting champion. He is so there's already been a challenge. kind kind of quasi thrown out. You're talking about who you've got your eyes on it. Looks like chase. Burnett's got his eyes on trying to get his belt back. I don't know I'm just looking at the comments here. The Chase Burnett He you know. He had the injury eastbound the shelf. I'm not sure he's medically cleared yet. But Hey you could see a surprise return there. I don't know where he's at medically but I I know he's fighting to get back and he wants. He wants his championship back. And I know Believe Electric ilise already thrown his name and that is a guy come out right up and comer man I I believe I saw. I saw a promotional material from him where he was saying that he was gonNA accept the challenge we one of however many guys except so ilise thrown his his his name in the hat and so before we get off the alliance title. I'd be remiss if I didn't bring it up Ken Cash tells US first. First of all Ken cash. I'm going to get to you one second. He's telling us that we need to make sure that nobody's sleeping on his match with Adam. Wait oh absolutely. We're definitely going to get into that in two seconds before before I get off of the whole thing with Logan I'd be remiss if I didn't mention there's also after be CWA cataclysm the following week. There's a show wind I'm I'm not sure on all the details. I will post them off the knockouts and three counts podcast page. They're doing a show in Wyandotte Michigan. He's GonNa be you know it's going to be helping to benefit the dread Queen Holly You know is a good show good benefit show. It's got a Lotta great guys on it. Logan obviously is going to be on. It believes on it Ah I mean there's a lot of local big names that are going to be on it and it's for a good cause man and hopefully we're gonNA eventually get Logan and maybe the Queen on here to talk a little bit about that Absolutely absolutely I'll be there and attendance. myself I'll never is absolutely You know unfortunately for Halley she has been battling this So hopefully we can get get them some help and You know wish her speedy recovery In this process as they battle through it but take take no light away. You know it. It's almost like that helps fuel logan when he's in that ring lately agreeing in wixom morass. So we're definitely going to post all the information for that. So Oh well we're going to give you a little bit of a sneak. Peek Tony One on. Why don't we give these guys a little bit of a surprise so with that being said we just talked about Ken cash? Ken Cash has got his match about Adam Wick but before we talk about his match with Adam Wick. We need to let you know the Ken cash will be our guest next week. We're going to be talking about his match that's going to happen this weekend at BC. W We got your six. But he's also going to be competing at U. W. F. Next weekend so there's plenty of plenty to talk about with Ken cash. We've had him on for a little bit when him and Alex Guy came on at one of the B- CWA shows but we never really got to talk with them in depth This is an interview that I think is going to be one. That's going to be very interesting for the BC W fans. Because I don't think that they know as much about Ken caches. You know maybe Ken would like to have out there. So if you guys watch us which we hope you you do every week Tuesday. Nine o'clock make sure you're tuned in next week in. Check out our interview with Ken Cash. Tony tell me a little bit about your thoughts with would cash his match against Adam Wick This Saturday at got your six man. This is going to be nice. This two guys who are really hungry. You know Can't cash took a little time off when BC wwl closes doors. And this is the hungry as I've seen him even from back. Then you know. He teamed up a lot with Tony banks who you guys have seen here and there would be Cwa but this is a different can cash. You know he's he's in the best shape of his life he's he's he's traveling places getting get more experience doing everything he can to be at the best of his game and to see how far he's come along to see how far he's pushed himself to become he. Come better is is definitely something to watch out or in as you mentioned next week. We'll have him on a talk about his BWI and his upcoming matching united wrestling. Front front against a Louis. London and Jack Berghel and he got a chance to be a champ. There too so is definitely something that you WanNa Watch definitely a guy who went on about for absolute. So I'll chime in on this matches well Adam Wick and a lot of ways reminds me of a young can cash Ken Cash I met Neil Zero two thousand seven thousand eight. And he's been doing this a long time. I into your point Tony. This is the hungriest I've ever seen him as well. He is in great shape he is determined I'm and focused his ever And I think a lot of it has to do with these feels like he hasn't been getting the opportunities that that he deserves He's been working just as hard if not harder than everybody else. And he's kind of been overlooked. He's had a lot of problems with tag team. Partners analysis like all right get get 'em itself in the singles rates in the ranks and getting himself focused focused on his opponent. which in this case is Adam Wick? Now the reason I say Wickham well out of ways reminds you young. Ken Cash the old catch would come to the ring. He'd be dancing me. Having a good time time allowed them wick might not be dancing. Atom Wick is out there. He's always having fun he's you know he's gyrating around. He's trying to get his opponent's head somewhere can cash use dancing wicks trying to use it with with different tactics and he's very brash very brazen very Almost disrespectful in a way in his opponent and he uses that to his advantage. Both highly. Athletic guys Both a little unorthodox what they can do. So it's a very exciting matchup for me because it's is almost like a time machine match where you've got this new focused. Ken Cash taking on a version of himself that some people might say Adam wicker's the future in the kid welby the kids a hell of a lot of talent. That's what people said about can cash. You know ten eleven years ago is against the hell out of talent. One day. He's going to be you know that the top guy and unfortunately for Ken cash he just kind of had a string of bad luck In now this is an opportunity for cash to prove himself self that hey I can put all that behind me. I can beat this guy at Wick and thou focus on my singles career in look to move up the ranks and who knows maybe a cataclysm. You're going to can cash in the main event or you're looking at in the main event twelve months from now you know it's very possible that this match dictates the future for either one of these guys. It's a huge match so with that being said before we get into our picks for UFC to forty six. The last guy that I made him back for legacy quit because he made a great point with account cash going against the mirror of kind of his younger self. Because if you look at that even a little more further to piggyback off where he said the mild game that they both play to try to take each others opponent out of their psyche is GonNa see really who has the upper hand in that match things are gonNA come down to who can get into their opponents hit. I mean that's a very good point as we talk about all the time. The mental game is just as important as the physical here and if he is got has gotten his head like that I mean it could be a rough night at the office office. That being said if you guys checked the video out that we put out after be CWA cataclysm we had interviews from like we mentioned in the beginning of the show with Caveman Elk. But we I also had one with the seven mile destroyer. Isaiah Brunner I'd love to hear both your guy's thoughts on his Asia Browner and what you guys expect from him. This Saturday of Expect a quick match up. I believe Mitch Att his sign. The contract meant just tough as nails. Ease proven brothers performance. A bail for champion going one on wall frozen. This guy is tough. He's hard to put away. But I think Boehner and especially being motivated by Charlie Brown cane asked. He's what I like to call them. I mean actually GonNa be quick. I don't think you're going to get to see a lot of Isaiah bronner but what you see is is going to be impressive in other words. Don't Blink Tony What do you think are they. Lebron's got the power of requests for those of you who are familiar with requiste. Just just Google it. He's a freak of a man who is kind of like a created God amongst you'll see fighters and created God among just you see fighters quite the Combo there Sir Youtuber who does he is he's a villain streamer and created a character named queasy and he looks very similar to ours. They are Boehner and you've seen the way he knocks out his opponents like hell knocking out just demeo was was mind blowing. We'd never seen mango down that quick. We never seen him destroy like that. He's called the seven mile destroyer for a reason. This guy is Lapentti does apart. He's kicking ass and taking names. You know he's deathly force to be reckoned with. And you okay. Nasty kind of reminds me of a damn king behind his Mike Tyson. Good owner Oh S.. Bob was with Don King in in his quarter manny. He's definitely some look out for. This doesn't take away from Mitch. Himself because risk can get the crowd behind him. He's a very likable guy. He's really good at getting people behind. them is good feeding off their energy. I just don't think it's going to be enough to get passing a brummer. I feel like like my sediments are going both of what you guys said to me man. I think it's going to be one to walk in. Knock them down. I five leave and I think we're GONNA see another win for Isaiah Boehner because I'm just going to throw this out here now that we're not in the battle for a champion anymore. The the whole coming out from under the ring thing I don't think is going to work on a guy like Isaiah Boehner and especially when you've got Charlie Brown on the outside here. I mean I I feel like Mitch you at his bottom bit himself off quite a lot that you and we're gonNA exceed. Come this Saturday. If he can handle as Kiki's crazy tough but I mean I mean those those fans of Tyson back in the day. This is the match for you. Guys almost just start counting to see how long it goes but you if you're into knockouts senior into three counts. You'RE GONNA get both I think Seattle I like what you did there. That being said priest let them know where they can find their tickets and all that before are we get off this and talk a little bit about. UFC Two forty six so again. Saturday January the eighteenth. Two Thousand Twenty guys first show of the decade Go BBC Dot Com get your VIP tickets for five PM entry get yourself a bonus VIP match and they're always Good matches sometimes the feature some up and coming talents features veterans You never know who you're GONNA GET VIP match but you're going to get a quality quality match up there and that's exclusive for the fans by VIP he tickets and get your earlier entry. Get your front row. See Get some free swag definitely worth it right there for those other fans that maybe WanNa make their decision last minute. Get their five thirty. The doors will open. Get your concessions. Get your snacks. Get your seats. Because at six o'clock the show starts on one of those companies that starts at six o five six ten six fifteen six thirty we start at six PM on the noses Rosa's advertised on the ticket. And you're GONNA get there and you're going to get a nice two and a half to three hour Full ride of an experience so January Eighteenth Copeland Center Wyandotte Michigan. It's a beautiful beautiful place. Beautiful Center make sure there Saturday night six PM so priest before we get off the Cwa your talk to the powers that be here man. I need to see more. We're of the HOMIE. Tony Thunder on the card here. Man I'm GonNa say this four legacy so he don't have to bear me fucking uh-huh Damn here trying to help you out and you just appreciate that man but I love what I. I know that I haven't been at the best in the top of my game I've been doing. I've been working on that. I've been working on getting in better shape and getting at the top of my game But they they they are working with guys who are really out there killing it. I'm doing the best I can. And compared to a lot of talent. I'm just many not there yet. You know maybe some people will see me there yet but when I do get that opportunity. I'm sure he'd be happy mark. Hey Man I'm just trying to show some love to the go host but I respect the honesty. Ah Tony. He's a kid who I call him a kid. He's grown ass man now. But I've known Music Damn Kid monitoring our America Park. I think when I met him and he's a hard working guy he's driven. He has the passion there but to his point. He's his own worst enemy at this point that he gets his head on straight and he gets his gets focused and gets the shows on time and he puts it that little bit extra effort. That's all we got to see it. We know the effort there. You've got to put it in at the right time. The right moment season opportunity when it presents itself and then and then show the world that you can do only because I mean you're still here. You're still fighting in. You've got talent. Now you've gotTa showcase what you can you always maximize your minutes with that being said we've also got a huge fight this weekend. I don't know about you guys but this is I'll be honest. I've been an MA in boxing fan probably sows twelve thirteen years old and in the last few years I mean it's been hit or miss. I always love watching fights I I used to be able to go to a fight every weekend and go watch fights but now you know with so many fights and not quite the same caliber of talent that you always Azel see. Sometimes it's a little hard for me to get invested but if we're talking about getting invested in wanting to see a fight in something that I would actually pay my money to see this weekend to forty the FCC to forty-six that's it we've got. We got the return to the notorious Conor McGregor against cowboy. Donald Sironi This this got all the the fireworks in the world written all over it and for me I feel like this fight is truly the question of what Connor are. We going to see because connor has has been all over the news for his antics outside of the cage. You know he's going back up to one seventy which everybody knows his natural weight class and he's going against a guy who can make make one seventy cleanly and on top of that. He can fight anywhere. The fight goes so I feel like this presents. A hell of a problem problem for Conor McGregor coming off a layoff since his fight with Khabib I think this is a test of which cowboy. Are we going to see as well. Yeah Yeah Fair. Point Cowboy gets to the point where it's like. He's rolling. He's killing. It gets that big match any loses. You know we say that time and the time again and hopefully this is one that he can actually conquer in keep us team going and keep that ball rolling priests. What are your thoughts on his one third? Is this a fight where whatever the outcome isn't going to surprise me because it it's it's hype like it's going to be the stand up fight of the decade both guys known for Highlight reel knockouts. Both guys known for having exciting fights but we've seen this dozens of times. Where when you get these two premier a high level strikers in the ring they cancel each one of them somehow? It comes down to a wrestling match in the better. grappler usually ends up winning and I'm not sure. He's still training with Jackson Winkle John Or is he with Trevor Wittman. Who the hell? He's I mean he's not technically with Jackson's but a lot of those guys are coming over there to the ranch because he's still got you know he's still got Scott Gibson with him. He's he's still got some of the same coaches but I know he's not training to rally and they're going to strategize to win and I love cowboys thrown into his chin. You can only take shots man. McGregor's got the powered or if he hits him with a left hand it drops them. I'm not going to be surprised if it's the first round flash knockout McGregor's eggers walking around the cage. Vince McMahon like like the star that he is but I'm also going to be surprised if Surani implements wrestling game and tries to do more of what Habib beeped it and really slows a fight down and you know if there's a boring chanter in his fight. It wouldn't shock me because I could see what we've seen one hundred hundred times with two new elite strikers and people expect to stand up for it to turn into more of a grappling match and a to lean Surani's way but McGregor. You can't sleep on his wrestling wrestling either. Because he trained like a madman for even instincts kick in at some point and honestly McGregor's a better higher level athlete Then Surani Surani's a harder. Worker are probably more fundamentally sound Striker of the to Batman I I gotta go with McGregor even though is probably the first time in my life I've ever picked McGregor to win a fight. I always pick against them for him. But this is the time that I'm just trying to win some money. That's what you like. I just feel like it's it's it's a rone's the twilight of his career. Unfortunately and I think he's just one shot away from from going out in Gregor's the guy who could put them away. Tony what do you think. Think and I'm I WANNA see Cowboy win. I definitely want to see cowboy win this one But ah I think is going to go with McGregor. He's got the proof. He loves to fights in a row. People aren't gonNA take a mysteriously as that top celebrity at U. OF C. Guy. And you have seen needs him to win like I haven't watched any other. ESPN PLUS cards. Watch the countdown for this. But I'm sure like this is going to add. ESPN plus subscriptions. It's GonNa skyrocket because McGregor's a dry talk seats. He's he's a star and the stars are fading and they need McGregor to win. McGregor needs to win and ESPN needs McGregor to win that the Disney needs more money but they're not going to be upset if IF Macgregor wins. So here's here's how I look at this fight so the reason why. This fight is so intriguing to me. There's a couple reasons. One as you said. Connor got wiped out by Khabib deep down. Take all the antics out. Take people jumping out of the cage. Khabib whooped his ass. Oh yeah I caught that when BA flight right as soon as the bus incident happened that could be was is going to be. I think he was. That's the thing people don't understand. That's why like you know I've heard Joe Rogan. Say it so many times comes in fights to me wrestling and having a good ground game sometimes is the best foundation you can have for an enemy fighter because you can learn how to strike but if you know how to take take somebody down to the ground not everybody knows how to fight underground so for me. I Ca- Abi Man. I'll be honest with you. I really don't see anybody at one. Fifty five beating compete period. I think it could be going to hold the belt until could be decides. He wants to let go of it. Or if there's some new young up and coming young buck who can take off them as very reminiscent of like watching. GSP Not in his prime agreed where it's just like it's going to be a fluke. It'll take Matt Sarah ask right shot just should all that wake up right for for this man. I think I'm going to go against what both of you guys said. I'm going to go with cowboy in. Here's why as both you mentioned. And they're both great strikers but the thing that is being overlooked by a lot of people not only. Do you have the striker versus striker where somebody somebody might take it to the ground but a lot of people fail to remember. Donald Sarojini has a great ground game and has finished many high level. People mind you. He's fought past guests at a show. Myles jury I've never seen anybody. Take it two miles the way Donald Surani did miles could not get off miles. lyles could not do anything at. I've never seen anybody do that to him. So for me I think ceremony is GonNa win and I think what ends up happening is I think I I think there's no secret that connor is GonNa have some ring rust that he's going to have to get off because it's been a while since he's fought but another excuse like he did when he lost it could be if he if he if he loses their. I could definitely see an excuse coming and saying that. It's because he caught him when he wasn't in that Sironi fights right so nice before to fight. Well this This fight I wanted to get announced. Seemed like it. Just kind of came out of nowhere to me. He'd been it'd been rumored for a while they'd been talking about it for a minute but it just never got got put together because of all the stuff with the suspension right connor and all the stuff. It could be absorbed. I think that's probably what got in the way of it That being said Man L. as I said this is a fight that I'm looking forward to and it's looking like they're telling us it's time to go home so before we get out of here Tony throw out your social media. Let them know where they can find you. And hopefully we'll see your ass this Saturday at B.. CWA got your six. Tony Thunder on facebook instagram twitter. I'm Tony Thunder everywhere. I got highly home. Maurice Greene I got a pet is hopefully went in and Yeah there it is. Priests Mathew increased instagram and twitter. Just Matthew won t underscore pres and that last but not least man you can find me at Detroit. Knockout Detroit and okay Oh ut not twitter and instagram. Kyle Carlson on facebook and make sure you're following the show knockouts and three times podcast on facebook on Youtube you can find a knockouts and three counts. Stay tuned astronomic cons coming coming up you've got people like leader come and you've got Alexa Bliss. You've got all these people coming and as you guys know if you've been with us for a little while you know that's where we interviewed Booker T.. Bruce Prichard Eric Bischoff. You never know what we could be bringing you there and aws going to be in our neck of the woods real soon to what say so T- legacy Z.. which you yes? I mean if you WANNA go. Let's go bro. That being said man also like I said BC. W We got your six. This Saturday Copeland Center Wind Michigan and next weekend Buffalo Wild Wings downtown next at old Salele Detroit Michigan. We're doing a party. Where leaking with the boys from breaking down the ring we're going to be given away signed pictures and eight by tends from Alison Kay the NWEA champion we've got NWEA? Women's title pins to give away. We've we've got T. shirts we've got autographs we've got. DVD's we've got tickets. We've got all kinds of stuff so you need to be there. It's a family friendly event. We have the upstairs or not happy subway. Good Lord The upstairs at b-dubs all combed off for this. We've had good turnouts for our last few events. We always have good turnouts for the Big Five. So if you're you're in the area you're there check us out. Shot out the Stransky and company one more time in that being said peace our intro music is more more more by punch DHEC.

CWA Martini Martini Maine Ken Cash Orlando Christopher Conor McGregor He justin main Tony One Orlando UFC Martini Dick wrestling B- Cwa Championship Nick Braxton Logan Alex Guy United States
New Era

PTI

20:03 min | 1 year ago

New Era

"Crude oil is crude. Natural gas is pure. That's why Pennzoil's based oil is made from natural gas, not crude gives you unbeatable engine protection, the prove pennzoil based on sequence for aware test using sap five W. thirty. Radio Man in his own attic episode seventy six woman. We're going to START WITH NASCAR today. Bubba Wallace, who is the only black driver in Nascar, told CNN and I'm quoting now. My next step would be to get rid of all confederate flags. No one should feel uncomfortable when they come to a NASCAR race. Get them out of here and sports business. Journal is reporting that. NASCAR is considering this. So, what do you think should NASCAR do this? Just start with my bias, you know me well enough, but let me just remind people. I I'm a son of two southerners who fled. The South fled during the great migration after the depression and. I feel a certain way about the confederate flag, and probably even more strongly than Bob Wallace and I understand exactly. I see the southern flag and it. I mean it it just. It raises the hair on my arm I I. Find It loathesome. Tony I don't know that this is gonna fly I. Mean a significant portion of NASCAR FAN base believes front first of all is southern, if not directly from in terms of heritage, and believes in the confederate flag, and when you talk about Biz is going to take a strong stand, and it's going to take a stand where the the president of NASCAR says. This is what we're doing. He's GonNa. GonNa, get support from the other drivers, not just bubble. Wallace Jimmy Johnson is out there saying he's out in front saying Hey I'm educating myself about all of this I am calling friends friends of color and listening to the experiences of their life, and he's already talked to bubble. Wallace and I'm sure we'll talk to him again. I admire the courage. It takes to say get this Outta here. Do I, know that the NASCAR is going to do that and make it fly. No I, don't. So I was looking at one of those video presentations that the NASCAR drivers did which is sort of similar to one that the NFL players did a lot of big names. NASCAR involved including recently retired. Dale Earnhardt Jr. whose word mean something to me and I. Think in the sport and they said they were committed to listening. They said and I'm quoting now to no longer be silent to make real change. This would be real change. This would be walk the walk. Because as you say, there are southern roots in Nascar and a lot of these people. They look at the confederacy as a sort of romance of rebellion as breaking away from authority, they may have no understanding whatsoever that to black people. There's no romance in it that states seceded from the union and fought for the confederacy did so to retain slavery, so there's gotta be a business calculation here and we're both at the same spot because you have to say how many white fans will walk away. How many black fans will walk in, but I will tell you this might, and I think I. Find Myself saying this all the time. This! Is that real moment? These are those real conversations. You can't sell look confederate flag getting more. You can't do it so I think Nascar not too should I think they will. I do Tony. I. Once again. That's about the fifth straight day I. Find Myself saying partner. I hope you're right, but you don't Tony One hundred and ten miles south from where you sit in your attic is a place called Richmond and they host a big race. Yeah, and if you tell me can go to Richmond and that race in Nascar, veteran flag in the future and in Richmond, they just took down a famous confederate statue, or decided to take down the governor, so we know that that change appears to be a common, but that would be that would be substantive change. Tony I think. You're one hundred percent right? Yes it would. Yes, it would yeah. Let's. Move Tony. To this I was story over the weekend I restrict coach Chris Doyle was put on administrative leave after allegations of bias behavior toward black, I will football players since that action, more and more current and former Hawkeyes have spoken out about the culture for black players at Iowa last night, Sophomore Defensive Back Caviar. meriwether posted a statement on twitter. The State of Of Iowa, fans would not support players who neil for the national anthem quote. Do not support us during the season. Do Not Watch us on TV. Do not ask for photos and autographs I would rather play. Four thousand fans would care about us as people than seventy thousand who only care about us when we are on the field entertaining them close quote. Tony. We continue in this vein. Your thoughts on what's unfolding at Iowa. It's very problematic for Iowa football. It's very problematic for the longest tenured D. One coach out there ferrets I hope. I pronounce his name correctly. He wants to recruit black players into a state that is ninety one percent white demographically. He's got his current and former black players, saying they were held to a different standard than white players. He's got this strength coach out there. WHO The black players have turned their I R- on this is Fahrenheit. Drew brees moment. He's gotTa find a way to get that team together and convince them that. This is a Redo for all of them that he's with them. I don't know. I don't know if he can do it. Well Tony. His credibility is what's at stake here. For that for that program and the university boss's the president of Iowa is going to have to really sort of be plugged into this because Tony, look. GROWNUP CHICAGO. There were always I will recruiters basketball and football where I lived getting kids from Chicago the south side of Chicago included and so Tony. When I grew up. I didn't know much about historically black colleges, because the big ten schools, including the University of Iowa had black students. You decades back you go decades back with many of the victims schools, and so yes, the coaching staff and I will now their credibility is on the line when they say look, we're going to make it so that you still want to come to Iowa. Believed so they're going to have to prove this. They're going to have to sell their own current players Tony and their alums because of their alums, and there's some famous guys in your guys who played in the NFL if they don't WanNA sell Alma Mater. What's going to happen at the University of Iowa? You're going to see them sink like a rock in the big ten if they can't do. So let's just take a look at at what I think is going on here. This is the me too movement coming to athletics. There's an inventory out there that you're going to have to go through. You're going to have to go through all of these claims as people look back on their careers and they say this happened to me. All of that is going to have to be dealt with this is. You always talk about the real hard conversations. These are the you'll hard conversations to use our first story with NASCAR. Some of these coaches, some of these staff members. They're going to end up like confederate statues. They're going to be toppled down. This you know change is not easy. It's not just a will do this. Everything will be fine these hard conversations. You and I have to have them you. Everybody's gotTa have everybody's GonNa ask credibility. During dating trips now. Don't you think recruiting visits to people's homes and going to be a little bit different now. A lot different. It's going to be show me prove it. Sign it. Give me an out if it doesn't work all of those things. Let's move on to a topic. I know that you're interested in because it's you boy Daryl Morey who have merged from his cocoon, and he has told something called the pump podcast that he takes the blame for not surrounding James Harden with a good enough cast. He said I'm quoting most days I wake up saying I've let them down because I haven't gotten the right players to win a title unquote. Bunny standing with your boy on this one. No I think it's a great bit of GM. ING. Out there and you say the James Harden Saint James Harden He. He knows the stories out there. Put It on me. I like people at every level who can say I will take accountability and sell that and mean Daryl means. Daryl's not saying this sort of. sock up to James, Harden. He believes this because he says he thinks about it at night and I know he does because I've talked to him about it and no, I'm not pinning this on on Darrow Maury James Harden's had some big moment in his career and most of them. He is not cashed in on because they've come in things like all game. Five gained six gained seven. I mean we've seen it Tony so no, I mean when when Chris Paul was on that team and they nearly had it. I you know I believe if Chris Paul is healthy and he doesn't have to go out with the with the injury. Game six or game seven one of those games I think Houston's going to win and get to the NBA finals. I know you don't really believe that but James Harden wasn't the most important player on that team, even though he was perhaps the best player on that team, but Daryl Morey put the right team round James Harden at least twice and James Harden had every chance to get his team through. If you're going to be one of the goats, you gotTa Win Those Games and he didn't do it. So. Let me say first of all that if Daryl morey wakes up every morning thinking about James Harden. Matches you cannot wake up every morning. I think about James Heart and let's go over what you're talking about. James Harden is a great player on a Wednesday night. He's ever in January and February. But in the playoffs in clinching games two thousand fifteen golden state. To of eleven shooting twelve turnovers, two, thousand, seventeen, San Antonio to of eleven shooting six turnovers, two thousand eighteen golden state to thirteen from three, two, thousand, nine, hundred and Golden State four turnovers in the fourth quarter Houston lost them all daryl. Morey tries everything Chris Poor Russell Westwood go small. Go big down. Boy Tries everything. Not Everybody wins Mike Not Everybody wins. There's some great players out there who have never won and and a lot of people came up against Michael Jordan and it couldn't be my. You, know, James Harden couldn't win with Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook in. Oklahoma said it sometimes happens, but the fault is as much. James Harden's as it is everybody else's and not everybody wins all the time. They don't I mean just little history lesson, boys and girls, Jerry West is the logo and we love him. But Jerry West and the Los Angeles Lakers choked time after time. They want one and who's the first person who reminds US say? How great is Jerry? Jerry says. We didn't do so I don't know if James Harden has to have a moment. We deals with himself and how he's playing Tony. Those numbers you cited those are indictments. They are in terms of great playoff basketball, and by the way it's not automatic. It's hard to have great games in those moments and he. Hasn't has it? Is it is? Golf Tony. Golf I know how excited you are. About to get a restart Thursday at the colonial in Dallas, good CBS announced yesterday that some, but not all golfers will be might this week, and none of them will be wearing earpieces which allowed for the announcer. To player conversations that we saw enjoyed so much in the match with Tiger and Phil Manning and Brady. I know how crazy you are about having people might up. What do you think about this? Okay, so first of all. I don't care if everybody talks, but if some people are miked up if you carry one little piece of equipment, that's physical I. believe everybody's got to carry them. You have to talk to everybody but everyone. The playing field has to be level in that regard as far as I'm concerned I. Find it amusing, Nick Faldo. Who's really good in a great guest on this show. When we used to have guests, he said Dolphins are entertainers, and they have to do something different now. Yeah, they do but Nick Faldo also admits he was a golfer, he'd say no I don't WanNa do this I don't Wanna I don't WanNa have to talk to anybody out there. To your point, just being mic`ed up to me is half a loaf is weak. I want the cross talk. I want the dialogue. Barclay. Did you know you got I? Want you to have to answer. Some might up. So what so we know you want Charles in the tower? Now or on the course you'd provoking people talk. I know that's what you want. To be. Like a giant blimp. That's what I want. On. Tony, you notice only about five golfers you WanNa hear I. Understand what you're saying is. They ought to be Mike for a formality. That thing is a way that much. It's a microphone. That's it. The technology today allows for some wireless piece to be carried around that a golfer. Does it notice? We're told I don't want to hear from all of them I don't want them. All might cause ninety percent of people. Being Mike is a waste of time. Where is the NFL the NBA? You just get people like Lawrence Taylor helping whatever redskin. He ran passed on a Sunday to say son Y'all got to do better than this. You don't get that often enough right so if you could have war if you can tell her everybody's GonNa be Lt. that put them out there, but they're not gonna be that. Now I know you're right about that and you don't have to talk to all of them i. just think that what made the baseball games so charming was the players were miked up yet? A couple of guys on the cobbs Brian Rizzo right I think. Those guys. Now these yeah. Okay well. Rory is personality of justice. This is yes. They will personnel, and by the way just as a side note, the field is great for the colonial. A top five and eight of the top ten tiger I wish I would've said yeah. I'll go play time. You shouldn't just walk into the room with the rest of the boys can come ten minutes late. You want the room to be feeling. Then you look and you see tie. Come on now I. Don't Tiger show up for this. You'll get there. then. Let them come to the second round. Just show up. Say. Let's go great with Debbie Tiger with a microphone for the second round over the weekend. They'll be so cool. For the happy's in my own addict. Happy sixty nine th birthday dave, Parker history lesson kids, the best arm in the outfield always belongs to the right field, and for many years the best arm in the National League belonged day, -partment Pittsburgh won three straight gold glove. Thousand Nine hundred seventy, five to nineteen, seventy-nine, he throughout seventy two runners, and he was feared at the plate career to ninety hitter, nineteen seasons, the two thousand, seven hundred twelve hits and three hundred thirty nine homers in Pittsburgh where he was part of the nineteen seventy-nine. We are family world champions. He was the NL MVP and nineteen seventy eight, ultimately, he was a seven-time all-star and he. He picked up another world series ring late with the as Parkas. Five million dollar deal over five years with the pirates made him the first professional athlete to average one million dollars a year there was controversy as well admitted using cocaine regularly and testified that the infamous Pittsburgh drug trial. That stain is said by many to be a contributing factor to why Parker is not in Cooperstown. Cobra, Tony. Dave Parker such a big man and he moved by. I loved to watch day. Parker play growing up even when he was in those. Hideous uniform by the way, those hideous pirate uniforms in time, those relatives of like. A yellow cab insist America. But I I was parked and just think how great you have to be to essentially. SORTA Kinda. Replace all you can't replace Roberto. CLEMENTI! I mean you have to move into I mean come on now. Roberto Clementi don't want to follow that and Dave Parker Man. I think he belongs to hall of fame I really do. Personal note happy. Birthday, Carol. We moved to happy anniversary. Barton Valentine on this day twenty one years ago. While managing the mets, Valentine got tossed only to return to the dugout meaning later with a fake mustache sunglasses and a t shirt. As you see in this classic video, it looks like a porn star skulking around. Valentine was fine. Five grand suspended two games for this stunt. Downtime played ten seasons in the bigs. Were he learned enough that the Texas Rangers named him their manager when he was just thirty five years old, and maybe that's why you always thought. It was the smartest guy in the ballpark. He managed the Rangers. The Chiba Lotte Marines in Japan. The mets the Marines again where he won. The Japanese world series has played through into the air like a rag doll in the red sox ranks forty seventh all time in manager wins, but he has just a five. Oh, four winning percentage Valentine by the way is now athletic director at Sacred Heart University in his native Connecticut. Doesn't seem to you like Valentine was just one of those people. Who loved baseball so much he will go to any corner of the earth to have a team. If somebody said you can have a team, you can be in this league and I know. The few times I had as a sports writer to be around. Listen to Bobby Valentine. I don't know about how you felt about that. I liked him very much. I liked him on television. No, he was. He's great to talk is great to talk to. Happy trails to training camp for Dalvin. Cook the Vikings Star running back once a new deal. He's threatening not to show up at camp if he doesn't get one. This happens every year with somebody when you it's. Melvin Gordon one you. Zeke Elliott one years Lebanon del this year. It's Dalvin club was the centerpiece of the Vikings offense last year with eleven, hundred, thirty, five, rushing yards and thirteen touchdowns. It looks over Kirk cousins, making one hundred fifty million dollars over five years, and he says give me some of that. is due to make one point three million dollars this year, and is reported in looking for something in the thirteen to fifteen million dollar range, but as a player with less than four years in the League Cup stands to lose a year towards his unrestricted free agency, and would be a restricted free agent, two thousand, twenty one, plus there's the possibility being fined fifty thousand dollars a day for his holdout, which could. To more than his salary. So, where is the leverage here? It's only the leveraging net. You WanNa put this all on Kirk cousins. You like that you want to put the whole thing on them. Because I mean I I to me. That seems like a bit much. In Cook Thirteen touchdowns only Adrian Peterson for that franchise has more in a season rushing hot. The Great Chuck Foreman Big here twelve a couple of times. Maybe he was tied with once with thirteen. Come on now. Vikings serious. Are they about winning? It would seem to me if you're offering ten and you know the guy really wants thirteen. You can get the something that's doable. It would seem like that.

Darrow Maury James Harden NASCAR Tony One Tony I Daryl Morey Tony Iowa NFL NASCAR University of Iowa Dave Parker Barton Valentine James Harden Bubba Wallace Wallace Jimmy Johnson Pennzoil Mike president baseball football
Hour 2: Kaepernick and Garrett

The Stephen A. Smith Show

40:19 min | 1 year ago

Hour 2: Kaepernick and Garrett

"The Stephen Smith Show podcast is presented by capital. One where you can open a savings account at about five minutes and earn five times the national average. This is banking reimagined. Hey what's in your Wallet Capital One. NA member FDIC this is this even a Smith. Show podcast. Welcome Tower number two Stephen a Smith show coming to choose. I love to do every weekday over the airwaves of ESPN radio on the ESPN news. Towards the United States of America check your am FM listing. Nearest you plus the SPN radio on Sirius Xm channel eighty ESPN radio. simulcast over the live national television they choice of ESPN news. Today's the day for doing with the home. Depots Watt selection of four lawn care products. No matter where you live the home depot has all the supplies you need and and tools like mulch calculates to make sure you get the most from your fall on gardening projects. Prepare your grass for winter with variety of products from Scots. And the help the Home Depot's convenient pick up blocks you'll find plenty of. DIY project ideas and buying gods that make me outdoor or that make outdoor activities funded easy visit the visit homedepot dot com slash outdoors for details the home depot more saving more doing also tune into the ESPN daily podcast bringing bringing you a deep dive into a single-story for one of ESPN's hundreds of reporters presented by Dell Small Business Download Subscribing Review Espn daily available. Wherever have you enjoy your podcast? Get back to the calls And somebody else said they wanted to call in if they call and I'll put him on a line If they don't I'll leave it be I'm not GonNa let you know who that is He called me out of the blue said he wanted to call in because he's pretty ticked off at this whole subject matter You know it is what it is. I will tell you this. You know. The colleges brought up The Colleges Burnham ratings success in all of this other stuff disc this to me. That's offended again. I am not going to go after because the reality situation is even though I thought it was bs and Bushley what he did did what he said. I think it's incredibly important that he also said he's my friend and we communicate with each other. He wasn't talking about me. Overall General. He was talking about me with a specific incident involving Colin Kaepernick. That's what T. O.. was talking about when he said this. Good Lord I thought they had that ready for me ladies gentlemen let me know go ahead play that right now. What he wanted was transparency for people to see the full workout Colin Kaepernick again? You mentioned obviously Max is going to get in here. I'm in the streets. Max Almost seems blacker than you Stephen. A and with with with with with with coming continue with all due respect. I'm just saying wait a minute wait a minute thank you right now. You say wait a minute. You don't cost a lot. Teo was talking about me with this particular incident. Instance with involving colleague happening again. I think it was Bush League. I believe it was beyond the Pale but teo talk all the time about a variety of issues and so again I think his statement was Bush League in CBS. I don't believe he's Bush League. NPS He was my friend and my brother before DJ's Joe He's my friend and my brother now so i WanNa make sure. I'm very very clear about that. Point number two. We don't have a whole bunch of people that are probably call up and be on social media and they hate the fat that to black folks or multitude of black folks are going at each other and stuff like that I would say to you I would defer you or refer you back to what Barack Obama said when he was running for the presidency of the United States of America back in two thousand and seven we can disagree without being disagreeable the crime and the unfortunate element of it all particularly when black folks are against one another. It's not that we agree agree with. It's not that we disagree with each other and make salient points as to why we disagree with each other the unfortunate part two all of it is that we resort to nonsensical levels just because of it because other groups ethnic groups in our nation. You should don't do that to each other. We shouldn't either point number three the call that called in a few minutes ago that add to cut off because when you go into a heartbreak heartbreak and I welcomed him to call back into the show in our number two. He talked about the platform that I have. He also said coller capital happening has that platform and he was alluding to the fact that we need you to speak what you believe to be true. As opposed to parroting parroting speech that Black America feels. You should make and what I would tell you. Is that our harking back to what I have always always said. And I will challenge anybody in this world to refute this fact that I am about to break down to you in a career that spans twenty five years from the New York Daily News to the Philadelphia Inquirer to the Philadelphia Inquirer with Fox sports. Sorry with CNN. Sl to the Philadelphia Inquirer with Fox sports thereafter to the Philadelphia Inquirer with ESPN whereafter to me. Having my own national television show having a general sports column having a nationally syndicated radio show after local radio shows been gone from the business daily two years before coming back and having a show at Fox and then back at ESPN before being on first take for the last seven years I have religiously made this statement and I challenge anybody to tell me one time where I betrayed it. I have said to my bosses losses while fighting by the way any of my bosses at any job that I would have would tell you who's at the forefront of fighting for diversity city and beyond talk to you about who gives back to HP see us and beyond they'll talk to you about all of those things and who's been a warrior on behalf a half of African Americans in this nation and this business it has been me and even then I have religiously stated this I do. You feel compelled to make sure every one here's the quote unquote black perspective. Because there's a scarcity of voices available with microphones in front of them to disseminate a message to the masses about the quote Unquote Hope Black Perspective. I do feel an obligation to articulate that I feel zero obligation to to feel the same way everybody else feels I speak for me. I do not speak for black people. I do not speak the vast majority or anything like that. I would hope I would. I believe identifies with a multitude of black people in this world but none of us speak for all of us none of us befall us. I feel no obligation to agree but the masses. I feel what I feel. I say what I me I speak for me now when there are enough black people or enough of a black coalition that deserves and needs to be heard. I'm make sure they heard but how I feel it is separate and apart from all of that I have been that way to my entire career. I've been that way through my entire highlife and I will never change if I'm wrong. I correct myself if I'm right I ain't budget and when it comes to my positional Colin Cabinet. I believe in my soul. I am one thousand percent correct. You cannot get a job. With an employer particularly one you filed a grievance against dance and ultimately settled. And now you're trying to get back with them. You cannot expect to receive favorable anything from them while insulting them at the same time I stand by that. That's my message about Colin capital of what happened last Saturday. Everybody else can make it about whatever they want. And I just find it. Odd That The folks in Colin Kaepernick's camp mainly a guy like Eric Reed. Who Took Caen? On behalf of racial oppression and police brutality and inequality are the first wants us to attack their own people. The second you disagree with a speck of what they do. I find that had a bit ironic but you Canada right place. I will never back up from this. I am right on behalf of myself and youngsters WANNA come up everywhere. I'm selling out I'm looking out. There's a lot of things in this country. That's all black people are oppressed. Black people do experience. Racism is still unfair in the workplace. Place we are constantly behind the eight ball but the challenges that await US moving forward Colin Kaepernick's way is not the way to handle it. I will not bend on that position because I'm looking out. I may not have taken a knee. I made out of voiced my discontent at Ed. Racial oppression and police brutality by taking a knee on a football field on a Sunday afternoon. But I've been fighting that fight for the last thirty five plus us that would mean before Colin cabinet was even born. I'll be damned if a football player bringing attention to something three years ago before before. Transitioning to it being all about his employment in the league he openly felt aggrieved. Aw so much that he filed a grievance against is going to sit up here with his Qadri supporters trying to label me something that I'm not and I'm GonNa run and you bet the House on that I'll stand wherever I need to stand and I'll fall anywhere. I need to fall standing on that principle. I will not budge now one inch that you have my word champ going thank thank you are you doing. I'm going I WANNA I wanNA say this Thanks for taking my call. It's a real one hundred percent wrong and steam Steven naismith on Saturday one hundred percent. Well and here's what you have a position. You have the biggest platform and the biggest voice voice in the black community in America right now. You have these positions because ESPN. It's the world while even sports your your voice transcendence beyond Alan Iverson beyond Michael Jordan beyond Lebron James and the rest. Everybody is looking up to so you and waiting on Saturday off. You took a position and because you took that position the NFL was is off the hook so now everybody is focused on Colin Kaepernick and Stephen Smith speaking. They has this beautiful position and this time should be quiet. You WanNa know why because about Football Colin Kaepernick is the NFL quarterback. You cannot tell me. Ninety six players ears are better than collar cap and at the quarterback position. That's the topic. That's the only thing should be talked about. But when Stephen opened his mouth and made it about with Colin Kaepernick didn't do to the folks that kicked him out the lead when they let another guy back in the lead for all kinds of stuff. Drugs Marijuana Here's the pedestrian and so forth. The list goes on and on at the end of the day Stephen. A Smith has a position of power. And sometimes sometimes when you had that position you have to be quiet and let everybody else. I guess what go ahead let me stop. Let me start on what they go ahead. Please my point I'm making. You're not cool but those out here. That makes them stupid states. Awesome Detroit Michigan again. Well fortieth stretch. We had a black mayor all black city black humor police black neighbors black principles black Paolo. uh-huh someone folks say they in the streets and Leeds Alabama or Down South anywhere else Miami New York City. y'All minorities in the city of Detroit. You are the majority so when folks start having these conversations on the public setting. They are missing for him because guess what in the black community community. There's thousands of black communities in the United States of America. So I challenge you to have a form Brag on Allen is brain speed Smith Branko hello gender roles and how do you compensate sat right this. I've listened. I've listened enough first of all I would remind you and for those of us the Joe for those of you who don't know champion. I go back a long ways He's my boy from Detroit. We've known each other for years now. Beloved we disagree on a lot of the things and we agree on a lot of things we both brothers we always gonna be brothers. s fine his his where we part ways. You don't get to make that call black people. Don't get to make that call. I make that call. This is my show I take as my show and the bottom line is is that I have a platform where a minimum of two hundred and forty shows a year are aired. You brought up Alan Iverson. You brought up Jalen rose. You brought up Steve Smith and others. Do you know that every single single one of those people have been on my show on Hoda. Of course you have. They all came on shows to discuss issues. Of course they have. They'll continue to come on in the future to discuss issues. WHO's the number one show that gives all these platforms to discuss all these ships? You make the no no no no no no no you let me make my point. Why y'all amiss is that if I didn't do it on a Monday with them together folks act like data ways the two hundred and thirty nine other shows? We're not only to do have the platform available to them and this show but also they could come on the show and tell me this eight the truths champ because you can speak to this better than most champ. This radio show. How can you always get through right and I bring you? Let me ask you a question for because people don't know how well you know me Ho Ho text me all the time. I'm talking about all those athletes every body and by the way everybody everybody's champ. What else do they do when they tax? What are they constantly? Told me this show platform you WANNA come on. Will you WanNa talk about this. Did you know I'm not saying Oh name though. I know that. I know that you can't say any names right but another thing you also know I invited Vita Collen Cabinet on I two hours. I want everybody to know this. I say to Colin Kaepernick's lady his camp. I I said Colin Cabinet could come on my show. Would whoever he wants our wipe away two hours. The entire two hours always is his live. unedited it's all yours never heard a word from you. Notice Radio Show you you call it all the time. I didn't know if the same platform there so let me. So I'm I'm I'M NOT GONNA hang up but I'm GONNA come back with you my point so you is yes. I'm a black man. Yes some principal yes up Afro centric and I got a conscience. That's relative to black the people who the hell I am but I'm also a professional who works for ESPN who has millions of people watching me every we day who also ain't black too and guess what they want to hear they want to have their say and they want to hear from these guys to so if you give them the platform just because they don't take it doesn't mean you can ask me to do anything what you can't ask me to do in this S.. Profession is to shut up because to ask me to shut up as to ask me to not do my job and if I'm not doing my job I wouldn't have this platform that everybody's leading on to say Yo you set up yours. Well when you say shut up I didn't. I made it that way. I said be quiet. And that's what I mean but you was the first to do it. You was the first to speak on Kevin Durant and they ran with it when you speak. They repeat it so people were there to help. They repeat the word there they report. They replaced him back. They take your words and add it to their playbook so that means you have a platform that super powerful and all I'm saying and my position. Is this right here. The conversation that you had publicly about Colin Kaepernick in my my opinion was a private conversation. The conversation that Terrell Oath had today was a private communist started. Because I want to come back to you about something. Teo was a private conversation. I understand that because that had no credence credibility. That's just your emotion talking. You see what I'm saying. I was addressing the Colin Kaepernick situation. And I was addressing. You want to be a martyr you so you don't WanNa play. Why was that an opinion but it mattered because it came from an informed perspective because they had been communicating with me leading leading to the workout? Not a spectator standing on the side having no involvement whatsoever and just watched day came and reached reached out to people. Like me saying. Will you help us. We know that is unfair. We know he's been blackballed. We noticed that right. He deserved opportunity. Entity Stephen a will you please help us and I did what happened. You don't show up which is spine but then the head of the post press conference the way that you did and salting the very odors if flew in the face of everyone who talk to them to autistic convincing them to give you a changed. How do we how do we ignore that and go like this private? It's not shut up. Be Quiet and all of this other stuff when you have this platform the reason I have this platform champ is because I'm me because I don't wait to see where the wind blows before I decide. What the Hell I feel I say what I'm be? I mean what I say for better that all worse right or wrong people's eyes that's what makes me. Why would you want to encourage your boy to be any different there? What you need to be? And what has clearly worked for me. Why at this position Colin Kaepernick? You have a platform and the way black America looks at it as when you speak and no one else when the NFL has made a public statement it looks egregious. That's just the facts and what I'm saying to you. Is this after Saturday night Iraqi. Dale made a statement and then you doubled Dow what you said. No one will be talking about you like there's no one I got it and I appreciate that point and I don't disagree with you. You told I totally get where you're coming from and I appreciate my brother other telling me what you tell them. You're looking out but you know me and you know I don't give a damn when it comes two. I believe I am right. I heard all champs points. I still stand by what the hell I said I still. Oh stand by how I handled it. And I'm not flinching. You cannot because at the end of the day all I said yea I please. He didn't WANNA play. He wanted to be a model. What I'm saying is at the end of the day? All I'm saying about college cabinet. You said you wanted to NFL job. This was your best shot and you throw it away. That's all I'm saying. Tell me what possible other definition could be deciphered from what I said when I just said that you wanted an NFL. John that was your best shot and you threw it away pretty much because of the post interview and statement even more so than the workout stuff breath stephen a real quick go. I'm elise with this. Yeah this is not to bring up the past this permanent to this conversation and Black America. uh-huh understand where I'm coming from Danny Age play Gordon Hayward last sure and you were really calm about it. But she said it. It wasn't the Stephen A.. The bottom line Gordon Hayward was being pushed because he was a white basketball player in Boston. One hundred twenty plus million dollar Khan who was a former player under Brad Stevens at Butler. And oh by the way by the way you keep forgetting who you talk to you. You were traveling initially addressed. I did address it with the same degree of fervor. You missed it in K.. Beck and so. Let me repeat myself a few days later and in a few weeks later and in a few weeks after that and then a few months after that but the first time I initially went off about it. You were traveling champ. You forgot that didn't you did yes you did. I'll talk to you later off the air but I appreciate the call and I appreciate the love paint offended by ride at all in at eight say. ESPN eight seven to nine. Three seven. Seven six champion forgetting how much he travels chance. Haslett chance to be all over the world crying out loud. How and when I went off about Gordon Hayward Champ was like what the Hell did you say? It's all over social media with allergies. Hell said Oh you're right. You're right about that. But he saw me calm or the next go round when I addressed it just a hell I did. I just it with the same fervor. I M me Michael Jordan. The greatest who ever lived and iconic figure someone I revere call me years earlier or you years ago and say man. Dan is not what you save is two way you say things man and I looked at Michael Jordan. Can I have a job can job. I need to sell it. We can have a salary. I I need a job at at this salary. Can I have that. Like what the Hell you talk about cannot earn a living just happens to be how I talk. I speak with passion. I speak with conviction conviction because I'm usually passionate convicted. That is me. I told you all along time ago. Decades ago Oh years ago months ago weeks ago days ago. I'll tell you now for better and worse for better or worse so only one stephen a baby. Tony One Stephen. For better or worse act. Cheer about the things I talk about otherwise I don't talk about it. Is that simple. What you see is what you get? I Am Not Bending Omb Opposition on Colin Kaepernick. And I understand how people offending people oakland nervous because guess what all black folks out there. We Family Steven Steven without. y'All not in terms of rate success in this business. y'All everything everything my love for my people knows no limits none but understand why you love me. 'cause real and I'M GONNA give it to you like I feel it. I am not changing. I am not wrong and I believe my statements about Colin Kaepernick is looking out for our people not selling them. That is where I stand and I am not the budget it eight say espn. It's edited seven to nine three seven six mortar stephen a Smith show on. ESPN radio in the minute. By the way when it comes to hiring. You don't have time on the waste. You need to get to your shortlist qualified candidates fast. That's why you need indeed dot Com post a job in minutes set of screening questions based on your job requirements then zero qualified candidates using an intuitive online align dashboard. Your Thomas Precious to let indeed help you get to your shortlist of qualified candidates squad more than three million businesses use indeed hiring post a job today and indeed dot com slash higher. That's indeed dot com slash as we watch these suburban garden gnome Catholic Catholic without disturbing it. Notice that it moves like not at all. It's inanimate intimate an utterly without brain function but despite that when it got no here's about how Geico not only saves people money but also gives them access to licensed agents twenty four. What an online and over the phone? It's clear to them. You should switch because yes. Switching to GEICO is a no brainer on second thought. Maybe don't watch. Garden gnomes to carefully Catholic. People might talk. You'll seem to the Stephen a Smith Show podcast by the way Stephen. A Smith Show is being brought to you live from above pier. Seventeen south street seaport presented by chase also download the vivid seats APP and enter Promo Code. ESPN twenty five at checkout to you. Get Ten percent off your next order. Don't buy just any see. Get a vivid seat is presented by Progressive Insurance Co. by and save on Home Insurance with progressive homequote explorer only progressive live dot com. I meant what I said before I went to commercial break. I'm not changing my appreciation for everybody first of all. I've never been after black appeal. I've always been after mass appeal. I keep up with everybody. Thinks but I'm a black man. And I have a heightened level of sensitivity about anything that I think potentially has a negative effect on our community intentional or otherwise. I don't think anything harmful that has come from. Colin cabinet has been intentional channel. Not Towards anybody in the community. I think that he's gotten bad advice. And it's gotten in his own way for his individual agenda but I'm mindful of the fact that following him would be something incredibly detrimental to folks particularly from the black community. Who who thinks this is the way you handle things having said all of that? I'm going to continue to be who I am. I take along with this radio show for as long as I'm doing it as a platform for anybody news worthy and relevant to come on an express their points of views Colin Cabinet scam was given a special invitation by yours truly to come on I take for the entire two hours. I directly spoke to his wonderful wonderful lady. Nessa and I don't care what she says how she feels feels and all of this other. She is patacula. Because if you are a man that woman that woman right there who's ready to ride and die with him any man. Dan should want that in their woman. I know I would and I have such respect for her. She's going support. Alan no matter what I am not. I will support the fact that he's done wrong and he deserves an opportunity back in the national football league but if oh I think he mishandled something. I'm going to say something. She wouldn't 'cause that's our man to be honest with you. I want my woman going to be exactly the same way. No judgement over negative variety and those people in her camp that I met at that radio station classified. Anybody that tells you disrespected me as lion. They will wonderful. I just respectfully disagree AM I. AH INSTAGRAM or tweet. Saturday night followed up by my diatribes on first throughout this week I stand by not because coller capital bad personal. Anything nonsensical stupid like that. Because I don't think he is. I'm still upset. That a bunch of folks who said he wanted back in blue the best opportunity to get back no matter how salacious no matter how uncompromising no matter what the situation was. I'm not saying sign a waiver saying work it out figure it out to skip to work out. They'll cut off your nose despite your face if indeed indeed you want to be back in the NFL. Nobody's called him in three years and he hasn't gotten a call since last Saturday and in my opinion he won't get a call because the people that have the power to do so said hell no back to the phones we go to now. You'll Stephen I go ahead Stephen. I personally think they're just missing it people missing that what you're saying is I. I agree with Colin. The way he is going about not kneeling Yada Yada Yada. They're missing that you're disagreeing with the way he delivered liberty. He's coming out doing all that you had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to respond to the NFL. Oh you could have held your little single but you could have sold up and said I want to work out I want to work for the NFL NFL. But they want me to find. He did it wrong and people aren't getting it. It's not about you disagreeing. Someone else going with you disagree. You're right they're all that's it that's all he delivered it wrong. That's it he did it wrong wrong. And they're not going to know one Pittsburgh could use them by the way because I'm say it but it's a whole bunch of these could use if you still play with only say that because he's been gone for the last three years but you now I gotta run thank you so much for the call. I appreciate it Jay alive even go ahead. Yeah Stephen this was going on. Let me let me stop right there. Real quick I just WanNa let you gotTa Russia. You only got a minute okay. Because I got to go to break Glenn Listen to people. I'm a black man from Queens. These both people have no accountability. This was going on right now. You're caught up in it you can't gloss over to Castro shirt and the pig socks because they think because they're passionate about something that you can offend people. Also you know I it says your quality and it don't work like that if the NFL would have suspended him when he was protesting on his own time stream racism but the whole public sidestep his own battle. NFL debut as the White Man and you even aside with the white man so they call. You're calling. You sow the commonsense color a lot of these people. Yeah when the white officer kills a black man. I've seen you choose a making things about race when you bring up black issues so you can't please everybody that's society. We live in a lot of people. Don't WANNA poverty right. They want revenge. They WANNA make white people uncomfortable. Even people extra network that criticize you. The fact that Communist Knicks from the suburbs arrays while white women. That's not a diss. He didn't meal until he was benched. And all of a sudden he's you to these people have reps black people and the NFL is the K. K.. Shade the enemy. You know why. Because they're so is the white man to them and the enemy people have to remember that the. NFL did not have to do anything for college. They didn't have to do anything anything. That's just in the last year after a meal but they did whether you like it or not I got you. I appreciate your man. Thank you so much for the call it it'd eight say. ESPN you call. Close out the show in a minute. Are you still wearing your button. Downs on talked and hoping for the best. Then stop it seriously seriously. Easily because traditional shirts weren't meant to be worn untucked and honestly it shows untuckit believes in helping guys look sharp and feel casual. That's why their shirts followed the perfect perfect length and were designed for guys of all shapes and sizes taller. Short slimmer athletic build. UNTUCKIT has the perfect fit because everyone deserves a shirt that looks great untucked and and you shouldn't have to go to a tailored again. One with untuckit huge variety of colors and patterns. You're sure to find the style to match any wardrobe so whether you're shopping for the perfect gift for the man in your life this holiday holiday season or just trying to craft a look as relaxed as it is smart in checkout untuckit get free shipping and returns on all orders in the US at UNTUCKIT DOT COM And don't forget to use Promo Code. Ros To save twenty percent on your first order at checkout that U. N. T. U. C. K. I. T. Dot Com Promo Code. Ros problems it's human nature to hate problems. But why is that after all problems inspire us to mend things. Ben Things make make things better. That's why so many people work with IBM on everything from city. Traffic to ocean plastic new schools to new energy flight flight delays to food safety smart loves problems. Ibm Let's put smart to work. Visit IBKR DOT com slash smart to learn anymore. Guess what you're in the middle of a Stephen Swift show podcast. If you missed any of today's show go check it out on undefended Stephen Expert podcast brought to you by gap one while settle for average with capital when you can open an account with savings rate five times the national average. Welcome the banking reimagined. Hey what's your wallet capital one. NA member FDIC by the way as an aside before I get back to the calls myles Garrett in his appeals hearing today. Correct me. If I'm wrong Shannon was saying that Mason Rudolph other the racial epithet in his in his direction and that is what caused Tim to react. That way did not say that was going to happen if you remember earlier this week. I said that appeals hearing. He's going to say something along those lines because that's the only thing they come close to justifying what happened. I suspect there Mason Rudolph who was very contrite. Yes they will deny that. Who knows if they're south somewhere? We'll find out hopefully anyway. Eric Alive even a real quick every go. Hey how you doin' Stephen. I'm all right you only got a Maria. Hey I just wanted to say mad at. I thought that that would the Te'o he he was out alive for that. Hey man the the reason when you have adt definitely what makes you and I just wanted to say man. He's doing what you're doing man. You're positive influence for myself A- and many others out there I thank you for taking my call appreciate. Thank you for calling from the bottom. Marta appreciate that. Thank you so much. Let's go to John. You live with Stephen even a real quick John Go ahead. I just wanted to touch base real quick for racial equality You know in sports there's always like narratives that pin black people. I gave. He's told 'cause 'cause majority black people are being exploited and I just wanted to like how that always why he's always going against each other. They always happens well. Well in fairness in fairness I get where you're coming from a lot of infants to you. There's a lot of folks in the media. Were happen to be black. Who feel the same exact way that you do? My retort to that would be the two most popular sports talk about his football and basketball. And there's over seventy percent both over seventy percent black so a lot of times you find a lot of stuff going on and involve a lot of black people because black people people take up the majority of the sport from Athletic Perspective Surly not from an executive position president of basketball football operations. GM stuff like that. These are all things that we could discuss. But you can't but usually the athletes that we're talking about and since over seventy percent them are black and football and almost nearly eighty percent of black basketball inevitably inevitably. You'RE GONNA find yourself talking about black folks and that's how it goes. I'll be back tomorrow same BAT TOM and channel same story.

Tony One Stephen ESPN Colin Kaepernick NFL Colin Cabinet America NFL United States football Stephen a Smith Alan Iverson black community FDIC Teo Joe He Colin Detroit Stephen Smith Bush League
The Steelers Retro Show: Who is the best backup quarterbacks to ever hold the clipboard for the Steelers?

Behind the Steel Curtain

48:14 min | 1 year ago

The Steelers Retro Show: Who is the best backup quarterbacks to ever hold the clipboard for the Steelers?

"Pittsburgh. steeler fans. We are back. Didn't you just see us? My Name's Brian Anthony Davis alongside with me as Tony Jeffey. Owen we just had. We had the steal Q. and A. and we got down and dirty, and we are turning. My actually disagreed, which is actually good flora? Own Sparring partners. Yeah, we're back with a brand new show, and this is something that we've been talking about for a long time and we're GONNA call the steelers nostalgia. And I haven't seen anybody pop up in the live chat yet in I'm hoping that does I. I haven't seen anybody as far as viewers so that might That might take a second to come in, but what? We're GONNA do here. Is We're going to talk about? The Greatest Memories we've ever had. In Pittsburgh Steeler, history, but today we're GonNa Talk About Memories of backup quarterbacks now Tony before we get into the topic. Let's talk about a little bit. How this came about? Right I was looking for some information for one of my articles I'm doing the Uni Watch and the Union watch is A. it's called Numero Oni. Or numeral UNI instead of Numero Uno, I don't really know if that's working, but. So what we're talking about here is. I had to go back and look for some information on Walter Abercrombie. Abercrombie because I grew up with them and. I actually have fond memories of Walter. Abercrombie but I just wanted to get a little bit more for this. For this article, so I was looking through and I found this article by one Tony Deficit, and it was not a behind the curtain article. And so I I was looking up and I'm reading it and I'm like my Gosh Tony's is in-depth is I am on this and it's one of my. One of my all time favorite games that you talked about. And it was the steelers against the raiders, and they needed that to go into the playoffs in one, thousand, nine, hundred, four, a crazy season. One of my favorite seasons I think it's one of yours to Tony. Oh, absolutely absolutely one of my favorites, so I'm thinking you know want. We need to just talk about the past. Sometimes we talk all we talk about who's going to be the backup quarterback. Do they have a plan? What's going to happen here? Can the defense sustain all that? Yeah, we. We talked about that all the time on this network and we're GONNA. Continue to do that, but on the show, so if you if you WanNa talk about steeler football for two thousand twenty. That's what the last show was for. This show is to go ahead and talk about the past and stuff that we love. And we're going to actually rank some of these guys down. We're GONNA we're going. Rank them from five to one and we're going to see who you have in there. Who European is and now I already see some people saying a best backup quarterback Ben Roethlisberger You know there might be some guys in there that aren't. Traditionally backup quarterbacks, just the they were the the main in waiting like Kordell. Stewart's probably not going to be on the list because he was really never officially a backup quarterback. So we're GONNA talk about those guys, but whatever you WANNA. Talk about this is a fun show. This is to let your hair down and Tony, if you have more hair, you could let it down. Write. It down. Slowly, it's IT'S A. Cascading down my back. To to you know to check this out, look. I've got. I've got growing. Wings trait how about that? I'm jealous, so we talk about all the time, and this is something that we've talked about in history that the most popular guy in a football team is the backup quarterback that is until he gets to the game and the about the guy behind him so we're always. Were I mean even throughout the Ben Roethlisberger era. Everybody wanted a different guy to get that shot. People even wanted Mason Rudolph when they got him. They might have not been happy. And that's been throughout the years, so let's talk about our great memories of backup quarterbacks and I am going to go ahead. I'm going to add somebody because I saw one on the live chat and I'm going to. He's from the same era as somebody else. That's on here so what we're going to do. For Number Four. We're going to double. Up We're GONNA have a tie at number four, but let's start with number five Tony when you talk about best backup quarterbacks in Pittsburgh steeler history. Let's go number five. Be I in my opinion. Be Byron left which I think he. Overall top ten pick to get him to get a player like that and Ben's. What fifth year it's pretty a pretty big, pretty big fine for the steelers back then and helped them win the Super Bowl. So. Why was he availables? Because David Garard came out of nowhere and became amazing quarterback for that team, the Jacksonville Jaguars and Byron was what was he fifth overall in two thousand three? Would was fift-. It was I think it was four two V. Yeah, like you said it was year before Ben. So that he was, he was considered a top notch quarterback for a few years before he shall out of favor in Jacksonville. So, what was your great memory of Byron Left Which? I have a few My first one would be the the wait Monday night game against the redskins from Ben went down. And Byron came in through that great touchdown pass to San Antonio. They won that game fairly handily, and and that's because they came, he came in with was a steady presence, and then my my second favorite is He he played in that the season finale against the browns and eight when everything was pretty much wrapped up. Excuse me in he ran for a touchdown and I didn't see it at the time. But on the sidelines. Casey Hampton guys, they were they were just cracking up because I guess he stumbled, and he was never known for his running, so he stumbled on the way into the end zone, and everybody just had A. Crash up over that, so that's my second favorite third would be the the Monday night game against. Baltimore and twenty twelve where they lost, but he he he actually ran for a touchdown. I thought that was pretty funny, and he broke his collarbone in play. I think so. and Yo he was wearing. That was one of the first times wasn't the first, but they were wearing the bumblebee jerseys those I, remember him played valiantly in that game We used to Joe ears. Tacoma Byron Sandwich and But here's the thing about left which he's going to be a head coach in this league. He's the he's now the offensive coordinator with Bruce Arians. He's in Tampa right now and boy. Not Too bad as one of your first gigs, you, you have As, an offensive coordinator and you also have. Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski Rob Gronkowski Andrea, so that's not too bad as well. He is going to be really good, but he doesn't need those guys. That's how really good Byron left, which is so I love it. I WANNA big I WANNA shout out to big MARV thirty four, who who I just brought him up earlier talking about on the screen talking about how Great Byron Left, which is one of his favorites He writes what's good. Eat All steelers, nation fans in the house, bad and Tony, so glad to finally catch you guys. I work too much. I love it. Thanks big MARV. Here's mark. We have all these people that are regulars in the live chat. We know these names. We know Dave Shipley, and we know snowman and frank the tank. We know these guys, but there are so many regulars that we have that catches. On the podcast platform on the streaming platforms, so thanks so much for those hards that. The we don't get to hear from all the time because they're catching us on the way to work. They're catching us when they're at work or at night. They're not watching on Youtube, but now they're hanging out with us on Youtube right now, so get some rest. You earned it and so thanks. Thanks to you! big MARV really appreciate Ya. What a great name BIG MARV! I want to hang out with big Mar.. Absolutely so you know what I'm agreeing with you on Byron left which. He was Kinda hurt. In the two thousand ten season at the beginning. So! He was not able to come in Dennis. Dixon was actually the starter. When ben was on suspension for those first four games, they went three and one and I think Byron did play, he played. He came in and played in that time. I Know Charlie played. The dentist got hurt. They might have had four quarterbacks that season of two thousand ten, but they did. Go to the the Super Bowl. EMBIID MARV mentions Dennis Dixon being kinda good. He's honorable. Mention guy for me With the guys on this list. I'm probably going to go ahead and look at a different direction, but. That Dixon Long career, but I remember Dennis Dixon in his first NFL. Start on, believe it was oh nine. Thousand nine and they really needed that game against both more and I mean he came in at the last minute to. It was a situation where Ben announced that he was ready to play. On Saturday in there, they said No. Dennis taking the reps in. He's he's. He's going in and the, I think they lost game twenty to seventeen, if I'm not mistaken and he was really good So I really think he would have That I would have loved to have seen more of him, and it's a shame that he got hurt in College Would probably be the number one draft pick if he didn't have that devastating knee injury, but he still was able to have a good career in the pros. Manahan gives us two dollars. His top two would be Tommy Maddox two thousand two Big Ben. Two, thousand four. We're not counting big band, but thanks. Sean. We're not gonNA Count Big Ben. He wasn't. He wasn't really meant to be the backup backup. He was a man in waiting Tommy Maddox. We might hear more from him later. Let's just say that, but as far as Byron left which goes, I must caught him San, which see how? WOULD THAT BE So as far as a buyer left, which goes I think he definitely needs to be on this list. So. We'll go ahead and put him at number five. Let's talk number four now and this is. We're, GONNA go back a bit. We're not going as far as Dick Shiner. In Ninety, nine. Actually this one guy might have been a backup to Dick. Shiner in sixty nine, if I'm not mistaken This was his rookie year. I believe so. We're GONNA talk about this guy in another one that he backed up with at the same time. So this is a tie here. Let's go back to the. Let's go back to the glory years of the seventies with these guys. Who are tied Tony. Had to carry handwriting in. Jefferson St Joe Go. Jefferson Street show I? I gotTA. Tell Ya those two. That's got to be a tie because when Bradshaw was struggling. Early on these guys came in. And not a lot of people realize this but Gilliam. Is Gilmore Gilliam? Gilliam, but okay I've heard pronounced both ways. Okay, Let's just go on, Jefferson Street so Jefferson St Joe. He came in, and he started the one thousand nine hundred seventy four season. For the steelers. The season been start off that great. But. He was he was solid, but bradshaw made his way back in, and took him the Super Bowl, but going in was a very big part of that team and very important. They really needed him in there. So. Then we go to Terry, Hanratty, who was I mean? He was banged up. At times, but you know here's a championship quarterback from the University of Notre Dame, and if you don't. If all you know is rudy about Notre Dame than you don't know about the great history and when we're talking about the great history of the Pittsburgh steelers. Excuse me the great history of the fighting Irish. Terry Hanratty was a great quarterback for for them. Any also played college ball with one rocky bleier to in they were they were big buddies here. In Pittsburgh. Interesting thing about Terry Hanratty as well. He is responsible. He's responsible for one of the great nicknames of all time in Pittsburgh. I don't know if you know this, Tony. But. We've talked about him in the past. I'm always going to talk about one of my all time. Favorite steelers Jersey number sixty eight. Elsie greenway. So really, what was his nickname? Yeah Hollywood. Hollywood banks. Did you know? That, he was just bags. Wasn't Hollywood exit I? He was known bags because he wore a handbag. He was like Joey Trinity from friends with a man purse. or The men Satchel I mean he. But you're not making fun of six eight number sixty eight. He was six foot eight. You're not making fun of. Elsie Greenwood but they called them bags his team. Team could do that. So back in the mid seventies, hanratty started a rumor. He started a rumor that the steelers were going at trade himself. An Elsie Greenwood to the Los Angeles Rams. US of that, he became Hollywood bags. I never knew I never can have that nickname. That's that's pretty good stuff so there you go. Victory Asher throws in four ninety nine. We really appreciate your hard work in. DOE Thanks Victory Jefferson St Joe. Gilliam is number one and he's definitely on our list here. We have him at number four, but Jefferson St Joe Legendary Pittsburgh. steeler yet can't forget that guy. Here's a guy that didn't make the list Antoni actually talked about putting this guy on the list. and. It's Mike critic yeah. Crew sick was six zero as a starter I believe a as a rookie. Ben Roethlisberger had his great two thousand and four winning. When he was winning these games, he broke the record of another steeler backup number fifteen. My crew sick in one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, six, who went six, zero was a starter when Terry Bradshaw was. Tony, why is crew sick not on this list. because. He was the epitome of a passenger. He didn't one single touchdown pass. It was all about the defense and a rushing game that year. So, that's where we didn't put him on the list. Yeah, he did not have a touchdown pass in his career. I believe for that. He didn't have a touch entire career, but he was really important to the team. And so we were, we were doing a show the other night. The steeler preview the steelers preview with. Mike Back Dave scofield myself, and it was going to be on advertisements, so I went back, and we were going to talk about the steelers advertisements of all time and we talked about. Of course we talked about Joe. Green and we talked about. The fact that there was a steeler uniroyal tire the steeler tire. Than? They did commercials for of course, Elsie Greenwood with his. Miller lite commercials! You had Jack Lambert Myron cope with Kennywood commercial. Of course, Franco had a bunch of commercials of Bradshaw, had bradshaw had one for Redmond Redman Tobacco which you remember, remember that. Yeah, he were. To pay in the in the commercial, I watched all these convert I watched all these commercials. Then there was another one with Bradshaw. And it was four. I. Forget the product, but it was aftershave. Maybe Aqua Velva, but it was like A. furred after Ele Capri Shave Gel that you put this gel on before you shaved. It was like it wasn't really a Gel. It was like it was like colonial slapped it on the shaved, so it wouldn't burn and. Bradshaw teaching his backup quarterback. Mike Kusak who was in commercial. About this. About this certain shaving product. paycheck ever had. Could have been any NFL yeah. So! There you go so. We we had a talk about. We definitely had a talk about my cruiser there to and bring them up Sean. Thanks for bringing that up. Sean Monahan brings up my crew sick so there you go some really interesting things Let's go to number three Tony. Or third backup quarterback here and. I've seen him. Come up in the live chat as favorites here and. He was pretty important especially for the two thousand two team, so bring up number three my friend. Tommy gone, Tommy Maddox I mean he he he may be saved the two thousand twenty season. He was toast of the town for a year. Which is which is what most backup quarterbacks that's usually what happens they? They come in and look at what's his name for the Jaguars last year he was he came in and set the world on fire for a little bit. That's backup quarterback. Normally do Gardner Minzhu Yeah. So here's the thing about Tommy Maddox. What a great career! For the fact that here's a number one pick. He supposed to be the guy that supplants. John elway and a lot of people don't realize this they. He was a quarterback that they would just. They would just rotate. Dan Reeves was rotating back and forth with another quarterback and. In place of it wasn't there yet. But it was in place of John Elway just back and forth like every other series in game. It was elway. Away it was a stout in. The quarterback that I'm thinking of was from the University of Virginia and I. I'm not professional enough to have had that down because i. what just popped into my head and I could remember them doing this during Games but. Was At more was gaining more from the University of Virginia, but we're looking nineteen ninety two, but he goes back and forth he just never made it in Denver though Matt extent. So He ended up with a couple other teams. Of course he's out of the. He's completely out of the League. He selling insurance in Texas. Then Vince McMahon calls. He? He's now with the LA. La Extreme maybe. I forget. What the name of the the XFL team I think it was? He Express I think. The Elliott Express Steve Young's team in the USA. That's right. I don't think with the extreme, but yeah. Okay wasn't the express all right. Okay, so that's we to figure that one, too. So I think it was sean more. The quarterback that I was looking for. Virginia and I'm thinking it's Elliot Extreme, but if anybody in the live chat wants to help us out with that We will mention you fund -ly so. Tommy Maddox, so he's out of the game. He Sewn Insurance. He comes back. He wins. They win the. La Wins the championship that year and he's the. He's the. xfl MVP. So now NFL comes a Colin. And I was shocked that the Pittsburgh. Steelers came Colin for him. He ends up on the steelers. He was there in two thousand one. Backing up, he was backing up. Actually he could have been the third quarterback. Was He the backup to Kordell in two thousand one. Yeah, he was number two and one and we never saw him. We saw him at the last game. This season against Detroit is when we saw him. We and we were talking about that. I was right. Read over and helps me out and says Elliott, stream in the first xfl. He so he doesn't really have to be much his first year. When thirteen and three with that team, they went to the the NFL. The AFC championship game, and they which I was there and I'll never forget. He blew it and I was at the game for years before where he blew it. Actually had super bowl tickets that year so I'm still upset about that. We actually got through in the lottery, and I have plane tickets to new, Orleans and everything so just didn't get a chance to go in, but Tony One of your thoughts of of him coming in that year, in two thousand and to take us through that. While, he came in in the second half of that. Third game against the Browns at Heinz field, they were oh into. Cordell wasn't having a good Go of those first two games he kind of. Picked up where he left off in the AFC championship game, and of course, the defense is having a bad time of it to. so come on. He came in and and say today. They won an overtime and and he kept. He was historic. CORDO. Started one more game early in that year, but it was basically Tommy. Maddox show the rest of the year. He got hurt towards the end of the year and Cordell came in, and and when a couple of important game actually people forget that he came in and in quietly when a couple of games there was basically telling me magic show the rest of the year, and they offense of Passing offensive like we hadn't seen since. Maybe the late seventies really they weren't. They were all about passing that year, so it was it was he was A. Definitely one year sensation, but. But it was, it was a fun ride. It was really a two thousand two funnier. Stuck around and he was a backup for a few more years. Team as well in the he, you had to backups. In those early two thousands in mid two thousands, the were both made this list and they were there at one point. He was number three to this other guy that I'm going to go ahead and mention But you're talking about that season. Start off one in three now. His first start was against new. Orleans new. Orleans was a very good team that year and they didn't make it through. That the barely lost that game, but after that he rallied them, they went to the playoffs. You talked about him. Getting hurt later in the season, and there was a November game against the Tennessee Titans and I thought he was dead. I, mean I really I was worried. I was just as worried as I was. When when ranch as ear went down because? He Got Tommy Matt got the lucky end of it, but he was caught off the field youth thought. We thought he was paralyzed. It, it was just A. In he was back in a few weeks, yeah. And then in I remember win. She went down and we went on right after that show was Monday night football December fourth of two thousand. Two thousand seventeen and we were, we felt lost. You and I, and we end the one thing we kept on. Talking about is like hopefully, this is. Situation Tommy May. and. It ended up not being that and. I? I gotTa tell you. This isn't a Ryan shazier conversation, but I'm so I'm so glad that his situation got better. Yeah! And that, but we were hoping that it. It was a Tommy Maddox It was the same thing that happened with time. And we. He wasn't that and we as fans? Weren't that fortunate as well but? They go on to play Tennessee again in the playoffs you know. Tommy Game US Tommy. Chris Molla. In Antwan, randle El gave us an amazing playoff game which I watched not too long ago. And And that game in the snow at at Heinz field against the browns was absolutely amazing. He just had a great season. They ended up playing Tennessee again the next week. and. That's a game that. They almost made it to the AFC championship game, but you had a guy. You had a guy I believe it was Joe Nedney if I'm not mistaken for the Tennessee titans that did the active acting job of a Lifetime Academy award, job and he was gloating about the job he did underway in Washington and he had a chance to kick again. And they lose that game and I'm still mad about that game, but that was one of the worst calls against the steelers especially their. Victory Ashra says Tommy. Gun was lights out against VIC in Atlanta. That was like November. Second or third of that year two thousand two, I was in the stands plexiglass. burruss broke the team record for receptions. Saving your the two fifty four, he threw. Do you remember the last play that game in overtime? I remember and I it it it I. Think it speaks to I was watching with my uncle, and it speaks to how your emotions can can can run things for you. He was clearly short, right? At the with the Hail Mary he was at least a yard, Short and alcohol screaming. Give it to give it to him. He's in. He's when he clearly wasn't yeah, but I remember that they rent. What thirty four seventeen in the fourth quarter and the defense kind of collapse a theme for that Defense that your? They couldn't get off the field on third down, but yeah, it was. It was an exciting game thirty eighteens. Teams Mike Vick converted with his legs. In Stop Them. What a game that was I watch that game. I to put that on my list. Go with a bill. Cower I keep saying. Training emphasize we didn't lose I'm just trying to let you know. We did not kept telling my guys. We did not lose to gain, but it sure it sure felt like loss. It was like the. Cleveland type from a couple of years ago. I just felt like a loss. Absolutely Big MARV s about Bruce Gronkowski if you guys remember, he played for the Oakland Raiders and he beat us when we. When we played them Yeah Bruce. I had a couple. Good Games here, not enough to make the list though. For the steelers, but I was a big fan of Bruce Gronkowski and listen to them on the radio now I think he works for pro football focus in. Very good! Yeah, he, he's very good. I listen to him when he's on the fan. Let's go to number two Tony. Number two. One of my favorite quarterback jobs of all time backup quarterback drops. Mike Mike Tomczak I, mean he? He came in and if you remember Jim Miller one when the the job and training camp at ninety six. After a new all Ghana left and He lasted a half. And, Cower panicked and say we can't have this we. We need a more stable veteran through either times again there. Any. He did a great job that you're taking them to the playoffs. He they He They won the wildcard game. Against the colty crushed the colts and then the next week it. They just weren't. They were playing in the fog. You could hardly see that game. And they played against the Patriots live off twenty eight to three I could still see Curtis Martin running down the sidelines in the fog and Something huge happened to me in my personal life that day. I was visiting my parents. I was living in West Virginia I, took my girlfriend at the time. I took her to see my parents and to me. My parents and she was staying there, and she was a Dallas Cowboys Fan who were gonNA play later on that day against the panthers in they ended up losing against the panthers, which I was glad because. Just to screw with me and my dad, when Curtis Martin ran that eighty yard? A scamper all the way in the fog in the end zone. She got up in sheared in squealed to round. Wow. I dumped her probably three weeks later, but I was saying that moment I didn't bumper on the spot. I started to drive home with her, but. I was not. Never. And I've told you the story about my my wife. Who cry during Jerome Medicines last game it was it was the first. We had only been dating a month. And I took her to. Drove Edison's last game against Detroit, that year in she cried when the fans were shouting one more year one more year and I looked over like this is the woman for me, so that's story the way your your significant other taunts you when you don't want back. But that that goes a long way so I knew she wasn't the right one for me, because she just the steelers, so that's a I. Don't know why we got all the way into that, but we're talking about memories here. steeler stop just I. Guess That's Nostalgia, but yeah. Mike Tomczak. We could talk about that season where he was, he ended up starting. But Thompson was so important that team for so many years. In the early nineties, and when they were when they were going to the Super Bowl and ninety five. When they went to the AFC championship game ninety four, he had come in spot. Start a few times, yeah! He played for game. He started the first game of the year against Detroit. That's at the famous play. You see him getting getting us on how he stayed in that game register got absolutely blindsided. As the starter in that game against the lions at three. Rivers Stadium that was that game and he started like you said several more that you're. You know with you. He did not. I can't remember his record as a starter, but I think it was pretty amazing. For the steelers I, that's something I could go ahead and look up, but he was the guy. He was definitely the the guy for a backup quarterback. He could very easily be number one on this list Tony. But he's not. I mean you could make an argument for Mike Tomczak. And we can look at records and we didn't pull up records because the I told you about this idea. Maybe right before the show that we were doing and we put together our top five, just like that But. Tom Zach as great as he was I think we gotta go. With number one and I don't think a lot of people are going to disagree. With our number one Tony. Take it away. It's at Steel Valley Zone Charlie batch a started off in Detroit, and he came here and he was. He was the he was the. I can't think of the word, but he was your. Typical backup quarterback ee was a veteran, and he was steadying presence when he came in. And Yeah Definitely Charlie batch number one overall. Maybe it's recently bias. Maybe it's a bias that he's from Pittsburgh. But yeah, I think Charlie. Patches on my list, the top quarterback or backup quarterback least in my lifetime. You, know what He. He was a starter for Detroit. And he really wasn't bad in Detroit. Wasn't bad at all. But he really when he came to Pittsburgh, he adopted being a backup quarterback as his role. And I'm the kind of guy that thinks you should have a backup quarterback in the proble I. Even now you're GonNa come crazy I think there should be a backup quarterback in the hall of fame. Druk but that's. The! That's probably going a little crazy, but. He, he was just money for the steelers and he was. Again and he had no ego about those those years after after Ben took over from Tommy, Mattox I mean I think we all agree. They were pretty tough for Maddox I. I don't think he really accepted the role. And and rightfully, so I mean he had had a career resurgence in two thousand two, and they struggled in two thousand three, so they went out, and they drafted a franchise quarterback, and he quickly came in and took a Maddux's place. Meaning, Ben. So you know but but bachelors there. He was a guy like if you The the AFC championship game against the Broncos and no five second year was constantly coming up to him, and giving them encouragement and giving them advice, and he saw that all throughout patches tenure here he was the one that Ben was talking to the sidelines more often than not as far as the backups. So you know when you look at least two guys that we have at the top. Your Charlie batch had a six and three record. As a steeler starting quarterback. And then you go ahead and look at Mike. Tomczak had fifteen and twelve record as a Pittsburgh steeler starting quarterback. They were both three games. Above five hundred. You've got to remember though that. I mean he was a starter. I'm talking about a Tomczak was a starter for very much that entire ninety ninety six year I'll be at one game, and so you gotta look at the fact that. If you take those games. Charlie batch had a better record. As a starting quarterback, excuse me as a backup quarterback, so I think that's something you've. You've got to look at their, but. I don't even remember Charlie. Batch in Detroit. I know he was there. I know he was there at the time. Somebody just John Trenches Charlie. Batch I'm sorry, explore your world. Just said batch had very little help in Detroit, but he still had Barry Sanders. Starting a rookie nineteen, ninety eight, he still had Barry Sanders there. He still had the I. believe still had Herman Moore there he. He had some players there. When he came to Pittsburgh. It just fit. He was home. Some guys don't WanNa come home. Terrell Pryor, said I I was glad. The steelers draft me now. He do anything to come in the steelers, and that's not a knock on them, but he didn't want distractions of being home. Early and Charlie batch just he is the ultimate steeler and he will go down as years go on Charlie. Batch is going to get greater. And is of steeler fans as backup quarterback, because now that he's on the post game show. He's a spokesman for the team. He's an ultimate steeler now and that that career in Detroit. It's almost like it didn't happen as the years keep on going. Yeah and he you know another thing that weighs heavily in his favorite, and we mentioned this earlier with with Terry Hanratty. Terry Hanratty Joe Gillerman. Games FOR THEM IN OH five. When you know when when they went to the Super One won the super bowl or I mean you know they barely made the playoffs that year he won games in? Green Bay. When a game in against the Browns on Sunday night football, you know I mean when you. When you have your quarterback go down like Bendon in the middle of the year I mean. If you're backup comes in falters if you saw last year, you know if you don't have if you're if you're backup. quarterbacks aren't aren't on point that could cost you. A gamer to and and he came in and and wants an important game I think that weighs heavily into you know, and then of course that game I'll never forget twenty twelve against the Ravens. They didn't make the playoffs that year, but He came in and and and and. When a very important game to keep them in the hunt at the end of the year, so yeah, I think we have to remember some of the Games. He did win where during Super Bowl during super bowl year. Oh my Gosh! He when he came in and on that game against the Ravens, they had no business winning that Game Tony yeah. They were no one thought they were going to win that game and he was just he was absolutely incredible. Right we gotta live chat. A got a super chat here from Sean Manahan. Two dollars. Thank you, Sean. We appreciate it. How do you guys forget the Coin Toss Game? Yeah he he was a starter there for Lions Yeah I. Forgot about that Oh. Gosh I mean Steph. Used to talk about the. One of his earliest, not earliest, but one of his main steeler memories from the holidays Thanksgiving was that coin. Toss game. I was an adult and I I was watching that game and I was like how missing this. How May I was happening? When they lost that game and I think that's one of those games. that. That's why they changed the role. That's not the exact reason. They changed a role but Jason. Hansen comes in. You knew Jason Hansen wasn't going to miss a field goal. He comes down kicks that field goal in they win. That game was at sixteen to Thirteen I. I. Don't remember the score, but when he did that, the steelers never had a chance because of. They messed up the coin. Toss. Right I mean the refs messed that up and then give him a chance, and that's why I like the role that. That! You'll at least if they score a field goal. You've got a chance to match it. This score a touchdown. You're done right because if score a touchdown. That's that's the ultimate goal. That's not I don't WanNa. Cop Out, but that's not just like missing a field goal. Exactly and That was. That was the fitting start to their. They had a basic A. Two year slide after that they are three your slot. I guess they lost eighteen hundred next twenty four games through the early portion of the two thousand season all started with that coin. Toss game that was kind of like the beginning of the end for that. Ninety s run that they had under cower. As Jerry Cherry says seventy seven to three seven nine, and that's what happened in that season. You know in you. You can go back to Iowa. Just. Completely pivotal and they ended up. Know the next season. Nine was. That wasn't a very good season. An all and that's one of the reasons. They were picking eighth in two thousand when they picked it up plex ago and the next year. They almost they would have made the playoffs. But. Bubby came back to haunt them as a Minnesota Viking because I believe that. I believe the Minnesota Vikings. They rested their quarterback against Is it against the colts and bubby came in, and they didn't win that game. and. They didn't win that game in all Pittsburgh needed, was for Minnesota to beat the colts, and they were going to the playoffs right, and it didn't happen, and so I've There's when you're talking about another backup quarterback. Bubby wasn't on our list because to me was more of a starter as well, but this it all comes back to the backup quarterback sometimes breaking your hearts. I think we. We learned that lesson last year. If you don't take care of your own business. You might have somebody like Bubby brister that you have to. Hope can take care of business for you and he didn't do it, but he's still one of my favorites number six. Well. We Have A. We getting ready to wrap up then snowman chimes in with how about the steelers top five of backups for a show name? The top five of backups. Why didn't you met maybe for? The name of this show that mentioned. I'm. Not, not sure still gives us five dollars for that and we thank him. But. I'm reading. No Dave ship leasing bubby brister is mom in the stay in slut. I guess she was really animated in the stands. and. They hit her a lot and eighty nine playoff run. So. Map. WHO Nap 1963 was telling me a story about how? I believe it's his cousin or uncle who I met at the game when we were down there last year how He. He knows Mayor Hajra well in one night he was. He was at home and Or was it was his uncle. I'm I'm not sure the got the call. Someone told me the story that all of a sudden on the phone like two in the morning. At his house, 'cause Merrill got him to call I. Don't think it was nap. I think it was naps. naps relative. That was Tony Story come to think of it, but. He said and this was just not too long ago and bobby was just one of those. One of those great personalities. That's the guy we have on the show you need to talk to bobby. Bobby Wood Bat I talked to Bubby for about five hours probably but I. I would do the Chris Farley Remember when. Stories that he would, he would he would have. Because I grew up with bubby bubby came around when I was in high school and through college, and he was just one of my faves. Any gave he gave us. The one thousand, nine, hundred nine season, as well in by was just a tremendous season. There's some. Backup quarterbacks. We've been talking about Tony That, you can talk about as backup quarterbacks. Somebody brought up cliffs doubt. Doubt was Asala backup, and then he started in. Nineteen eighty-three before going onto the Birmingham stallions of the USFL We could also talk about David. Woodley Mark Malone. Of Jim Miller was brought up in the live chat. As well. There's other guys Brian saint-pierre Rick Strom. You could. You could bring up there some names that you could bring up. That You might even say who for back half the back right right? Remember the backup quarterback, awesome stuff, nineteen, ninety-three Saint, len, Dawson and Johnny United. Team every made the steelers team, so that wouldn't be a good one. Donny than make the employee. Was that that mess? Martin there you go, T. What's what's t? Why is t Martin? As far as a steeler backup quarterback, not something he did on the field, but something. That he's associated with. He was one of the many quarterback that were drafted ahead of Tom Brady right right before Tom Brady. Him In the fifth round now I'm not talk I'm not talking right before, but in the fifth round the Patriots took him in the sixth round and. And? I believe the Patriots were picking high that year, too. So I'm not sure where. They might have been pretty close in. He went. He went when right beforehand so. There you go, so this was a fun lively show stealer Nostalgia I. Hope Everybody had fun with it. If you WANNA, come up with a name for this show. You could throw it in the live chat, but since we're wrapping up, you could send it to MIGHT WITTER BTC bad. If you to go ahead and do that, do you? What's your twitter account or do you throw it out there I? Know Yeah, definitely Oh man. How can the name but it's been my name for over a decade now. Deaf Yeoman Ooh I like Rhino tools. The Retro Show let's. I like it. I! Like that we the rhetoric show could be a good one. Jerry Jerry balances smashed the like button. Check the show out a really appreciated this This is not going to be a every week. Thing might be in every other week thing. It might be a special thing. May maybe it just sticks? But we talk about the twenty steelers all the time, and that's what we need to do. We need to talk about the current the current steelers, but every once in a while. It's fun to go back into the. Machine and talk about the great years that continue to make us a fan shape of shape us as a fan and that's that's a lot to talk about Robert Sassa fits. About the hangover. There, you go well. I know what I think we might try that. We might wait till the fall. We might try the hangover I hope we have. Some hangover shows this fall. That'd be that'd be great. we don't have. We do not have a catchy sign off for this one, so you know what? That's. Let's go with little. Doc, Brown and Marty MC fly and. We gotta get you back to the future. Tony Duffy so. It said for Tony. I'm bad. We love hanging out with you guys. Thanks so much, and we'll talk to y'all soon. Great share everybody.

Pittsburgh steelers Tony One Tommy Maddox Pittsburgh AFC steeler browns Byron Detroit Mike Mike Tomczak Tony That Tommy Tony ben NFL Ben Roethlisberger John Trenches Charlie Jim Miller Sean
Survivor 40 | Tarans Winners at War Episode 11 Update | Ovi Kabir

Reality TV RHAP-ups: Reality TV Podcasts

2:04:08 hr | 1 year ago

Survivor 40 | Tarans Winners at War Episode 11 Update | Ovi Kabir

"Teheran's give you deeds dig in the Bronx Zoo find you everything you need to review live. Nannies. Break down the be on. What the Rod. Hello everyone and welcome to our survivor. Update for episode eleven of winners at war. I'm here I was turn Armstrong and with me today is Lovie Lovie. Good happy to be utan. Thanks for having me today. Yes lovie who was on big brother? Twenty one very recently came in fourth place on the big brothers the game. Yes yes that was. The Fun Journey was more fun than my big brothers journey clarify there yes and also a survivor fan correct. How how long have you been watching survivor? I've been a big survivor fan. War Lord knows probably last ten years about yeah. I started watching like right when I yeah. Ten nine years into high school class now is assigned watch Survivor and from there. I became a big fan applied for this show. I didn't work out in big brother instead. It was. Are there any winners that you hadn't seen their seasons? I think the one identity was sophie's. See Sophie Sir Win. I think she was one of the few hours planning to watch right before the whole War But I think chancellor here but most of the winners I did get a chance to lead or watch now very interested in seeing Sophie's one hundred percent hundred percent I we'll talk about her later episode but Yeah I have a lot of love for her all right. Well we're going to go into this episode. We're doing a deep dive. We're GONNA go through all the details and I've got to say right off the top. This has to be one of my favorite episodes of survivor ever and this was so much fun especially going back on the rewatch literally. There was no wasted time. Every single segment of the show was interesting and compelling and worthy of me writing I feel like I have literally like the entire script of the episode written down. This is so good and I'm so happy to be talking over the over. Yeah I'm super excited to go and eat out Terry Dork. My dog right now so so. I'm very excited about this episode. I feel like it really captured. The essence of what survivor Is for me especially in contrast with the previous episode where where it was the family visit stuff was nice but we got so little strategy in the previous episode being able to really understand what was going on in this episode. Really really good. So so. Let's let's get into it over. Let's get into the episode before we get into the episode though briefly before I do. I have some quotes from earlier in the season that I feel like a relevant for this episode The main quote here. Tony says in episode one. I want to get everyone. Nice and comfortable guards are right here right now. And they're slowly coming down as they see Tony's round Campbell Day all night. It's calmed down. It's coming down like this and when it gets to hear Bang. That's when the sucker punch comes in and this very prophetic this Tony. Yes he had tony. Tony gave me everything that I wanted from this whole CD. Interest one nine. I think he broke the confessional record. I might be wrong on that one big heat. There were so many confessions had I was. Were used going home for a second right. Yes eighteen confessionals in one episode. Which is more than any other single player in any other episode of survivor ever including Finales? Which soon remarkable feat. I almost want to check the work on those eighteen. Confessional dominy in in one episode from episode. I believe this is episode two. Maybe it was episode. Three we get we get Tony and Sarah. Creating cops are US two point. Oh Tony says to us for the first time in Cagayan. It didn't work out so well for Sarah. It worked out for me the Russell Lines which just included me because Sarah was voted off. But this time I'm going to make it up to her if she gives me that trust and he did a dirty did her duty. Sarah says the last time cops are s happened. The other half of cops are US voted. This half of half of cops us out of the Game Tony Operates. It was like we were brand new partners out on the street. Now I know my partner and as long as nobody knows about cops are us. Cops are US can work it. I don't know how well it worked but it was fun to see it was I. I think I won't get too much into it right now but I'm excited for it at the beginning of next episode as well Yeah and I think this quote from Sarah I really represents how like what Tony has done to this point. They all came into the game thinking. I know Tony's game it's not GonNa work on me and exactly what he talks about. Their guard is lowered lowered and he sucker punched him so a few other things that we saw Tony Nick together. Here we talk. We've talked about this briefly in previous podcasts. As well that in episode nine we saw that it was Tony doing a lot of the damage control with Nick. After the Wendell blindside that seemed to have been very useful for Tony in the following episode when seemingly nick all of a sudden with Tony in Sofia and all of them are not with Michelle. I think Tony has done a lot of work with nick. That we haven't really seen he. Also is the one in a montage to keep nick in the loop to rat out. Tyson to nick saying that Tyson is the one that told Sarah that. The vote is going on her Again Tony doing a lot of work here with Nick and then the tension between Tony and Sarah Seemingly started in the last episode when he wanted Tyson out and she wanted came out and obviously. We've seen a lot of this stuff between Sophie and Sarah and how they need to be broken up. 'cause they're too close but there was a lot that went. There's this episode like I feel like every once in a while the editors put together an episode is a culmination of a lot of the threads that they've woven throughout the previous episodes and this is definitely one of them one hundred percent. I think there was a lot of foreshadowing. We realized to lead up to this episode and to that point with Nick. I wish they showed a little bit more of the relationship between Nick and Tony so her kind of getting more grass. Whether Nate Jess was like oh I'll jump in or not because I think there's a little more their fortunately. Nick are pretty close for an hour away from me. So He's actually one of the few survivor fans are winners. Actually keep up with closely. And so we're chatting after the episode. He's like yeah. There was a lot more conversations that happen to go with that so I really wish. They showed that house he I heard he's deactivated. This twitter. Yeah I think he's doing pretty good. I think sometimes you know he just wants to jail. He's playing what's the game. Could gone down his livestream so he's living life. But I think you know. Sometimes people sent tweets here and there but overall good. I'm glad I'm glad you're here because I do want to talk about an extreme and I feel like he isn't getting a lot of credit for what he's doing and I definitely want to talk about it all right so we get into the episode we open up and it's just Jeremy alone at camp. 'cause bounced early do so how do we think this work though like they they like both them off back to the island right? It's not may maybe there's not a boat ride for this one. I don't know but did they. Vote Jeremy Back on his own or did they vote everybody back and Jamie you go first and then have yeah. I don't I don't know I really don't know me like thinking it logically. What they most likely did. They just took him out Bible and then it puts them all on the same boat and said. Don't talk and you go there well. I think it'd be really funny if they had to wait for all right there. You go myself on the phone. That's what happened. Yeah we'll we'll we'll maybe we'll never know but So he says that he was not leaving this game with an advantage in his pocket which foreshadowing for later but he says he was like. I said I'm Outta here like flash in the night like like Houdini Trick. I just poof. And gone and he has this big grin on his face. You know it was beautiful and so great and it was so great like in the beginning of like how everyone is so upset at him like. How could you do that? Jeremy like why would you? Y'All worry about volume seeing. Ben Be so upset at Jeremy Because Jeremy just saves himself it was it felt so it felt so good. You know and I'm glad Jeremy. Tried calling out band they're bigger. It was gold like Ben has been gold on. Tv has so he sees. The Tyson is back on the edge. She says this is not good and this is when they all come funneling back in and and they are. They're like Why don't you leave? Why did you do that? So Ben tells us all right. We had a tight plan going into tribal myself. Nick Sophie Sarah and Tony were all gunning for Jeremy but Jeremy left tribal until we had to come up with a new plan and so I was trying to figure this out last week. What happened here. Lovie a why? Michelle Voted Tyson. And why they split the vote with only two votes on denise and apparently one of the options was. Michelle was secretly with them the whole time but apparently that's not the case. Apparently Michelle really was left out of the vote really was on the other side of things which means that. Why did she vote for Tyson? It doesn't make a lot of sense. We talked over those options. But my guess is ultimately. If you listen to last week's podcast I guess the the answer. Is She panicked. She voted for Tyson. I heard that that nick might have said that. He told her to vote for Tyson. Thank you much about that yet. But I asked that actually. I didn't know that now maybe Sarah hold on. Maybe I think he said that. Sarah told her to vote for Tyson. I think somebody told her to vote for size but like if but here's the thing if they tell. Michelle vote for Tyson Michelle votes for Tyson. Then why isn't Michelle telling Kim? Hey told me vote for Tyson? And if we put three votes on somebody else maybe because she thinks that she might be the vote so she's voting Tyson. I Dunno I wish we got a confessional from Michelle that explained it but anyway apparently Michelle was on the vote so we can put a little bit of that to rest for now I do wish to that point you. I love the editing styles of season. Where sometimes it's not just blindside to play the blindside us in certain ways but I do wish afterwards. Maybe the preaching episode. We'd Kinda get another confessional. Well this is kind of what went through my mind that boat. That would be the answer some questions for us. Yeah we need flashbacks. So Ben tells the Jeremy is public enemy number one now and this is an actual group of five that can move forward and he can control the with and he so he thinks that the move forward from here to take their biggest threat. Which is Jeremy? And so then we get this confrontation between Jeremy and Ben. Where Jeremy's asking Ben Mike Tyson? Do you Tyson. Leaving was bad. Specify game man like who's the biggest target left in the game? Now men's just like you you you want immunities. You played advantages. Jeremy's like Whoa. I don't think everyone's going to be looking at me like I'm GonNa go away. You gotta listen to me Ben. He's like I don't have to listen to you. Jeremy in my eyes year a lot bigger threat than I am so yeah I never thought that Dr Lori that I enjoy so much everyone versus Ben Adams versus Germany versus like. It's it's been funny to see that and I wished a little context because going is seems. Jeremy was really upset about between events. Like we saw confessionals by jared with through Germany was talking about. Ben Is no way you're gonNA vote for me or not. He's not gonNa vote me things like that so I wonder if there was a little more tension there and Jerry was talking about also later on in the episode. How Everything Noida him about and Ben do any. You just beat. Anybody know him. Well I mean we saw the Jeremy was working pretty closely with Tony and then they were in this like big threats crew. They were the pros. And so I I the Thais Jeremy is feeling like you stab me in the back man. Tony is trying to pretend that I wasn't in on that whereas Ben is just like yeah. You're the biggest threat man. Like what what do you want me? I'm not I'm not really a big threat. I know I was pretending to be an idiot. I'm Ben so Jeremy tells us. Tyson was the biggest shield around he wanted. Tyson is is Michio. That's his system that we wins the game but now he's not here so This is not good so we get we get a little bit from Kim and Michelle. Kim Tells Michelle I got played hard. Not Good Michelle says that. She can't tell what's real and what's fake somebody levels of chaos and she just can't play the game like that she's very confused. Yeah Yeah No. It's been a roller coaster watching Michelle in the cheapest plays great in a lot of moments you. She's on top and he finally find on the bottom so but I almost like Michelle watching shelf trying to claw her way. Bigger things out as goes and Yeah No. I think it's interesting to see in middle where a lot of people even though there is supposed to be five now or four They were not sure what's going on or they felt so sure they didn't WanNa talk to with other players. Michelle tells us when when you left out of a vote and nobody seems to trust you. You're probably at the bottom. I don't trust anybody and Kim says you me. Jeremy Denise are screwed. We're just spirit so then we get to the next morning. Tony is up early. He says at the beginning of the season. I couldn't go look for idols. I camp all the time and look what happened still in the game. I've been patient. Everyone is everyone is always tired. After tribal they sleep logs. Now's the time for me to go to work. And so this is. This is actually a thing with Tony. Then he talked about a lot in his first season which was that. He doesn't sleep a lot he would spend all night thinking through scenarios. We'll everyone else. Slept so not super surprising that he's GonNa he's the guy that's able to get up at the crack of dawn and beat everyone else to go find an idol. Yeah no for sure. And it's kind of fun watching the season with my girlfriend handcuffs. This is actually her first survivor season and so she never got to see any of these winners before. I've always tried to get into this show. But she just wasn't really much for and so she's watching and she just looked at me like chart. Tony One is like how did you want to see him? Playing like this and I was so amazing about Tony and so she was. He's a huge. Tony Fan now. She wants to see winter next. Nick but yeah it's We kind of got to see what we've been waiting for. Because his first season he played you know the most flamboyant gain radic but still fun himself at the end and then came back again and that run was short so I think if anything that helped his danger level at all in this crazy now there is a very funny montage earlier in the season of Nick just kind of sliding into frame and so we get another iteration of that where. Tony is searching for an idol and the camera pans over a knicks. Just so Tony's like nick is cramping my style. He directs them to the water. While he's like Oh. I haven't searched the water while you go search at the water. Well I'll go search over here. They promised to be transparent with one another which doubt they were considering that. We didn't get Tony. Telling Nick about. And so they go and they they looked in separate directions and then. Tony fines in idol. If you were around for Kaga on and you were rob has a podcast listener. You know all about how Tony Finds Idols. A this. We get a great. Yeah please please please please. Yes yes. It's Christmas morning for him is literally. It's it's It's a ringtone for any survivor fan. Having Tony Finding honestly yeah. It was huge. He needed it and got it. So he's so excited Tony his so much enthusiasm for the game. Can I also say it was? I don't know maybe it was just that angle we were getting shot at but it was so obvious that there's a huge tree. There's a random rock next on the tree like there's GonNa be something like there's going to be idle and he showed but I wonder how did you hear the move move things away or was it that obvious that you know the rocks there well. It was really dark like you could tell that it was it was like he was kind of just like I think. Even when he removed the rock he still didn't see it. He was just kind of true. It was hand through the the leaves and then like came up with an idol. He's like Whoa Dark Yeah He. It was early morning that he win. Yeah so we cut from Tony. Finding an idol to Sarah who is holding a fashion show. She says this is not even a confessional just her just like doing stuff at camp. She's like you know a lot of people think I'm just smart funny and pretty but I'm also really creative and I can make clothes. I love this part because it made me less. Someone's in all of this era but she's like some people think I'm just smart pretty and I happen to have any three of those qualities I'm also created I'm also created like not just a trifecta off four. I've got to say I feel like we don't even get Humor from Sarah I. This is my brand of humor. I love the sarcasm. I thought this was really funny. She says this is what I've been up to this morning. I've started my own clothing line. And she's just talking about it complete straight face and then we get this montage of like a fashion show which was shot really. Well I've gotTA SAY AS FOLLOWS THEM FROM BEHIND. This is really. This is a really great segment. Yeah even kick in with the music. It was great I loved like the Little League world. They're walking down there. It was all I wanted was Tony. Tony didn't want to be part of it. Did Not who the fashion show. Who had the best outfit Lovie? Michelle killed it with her walk. She just did that little sprout jacket and she'd done this before looked like But it was solid. I wish we need. I did like Sarah thing that she had going on some sort of like clear wrap that she had. Michelle had the best best attitude in her walk. She did they all did great. But what it's made me realize that we're so sorely missing from throughout we don't need edge of ICS in extinction. We need like survivors next tomorrow. So when you get voted out actually go to edge of extinction but Sarah makes all the clothes and your whole runway. What what if? Here's here's an idea. What if extinct at the edge of extinction is actually just project runway and so they show up on edge of extinction and Tim. Gunn is there. And he's like all right. Guys who wins project runway their way back into the survivor game. One hundred percent. I mean I think at that point you will is given you know that right there. He has so. Sarah Sarah and Sarah uses this opportunity to say. Tony doesn't want to participate in the fashion show. And that's why I like. I love Tony to death but we play two completely different ways. He wants to flashy game was to play. Idols doesn't really play a social game. My social game. It's really great and I think that there is a lot of validity in what she's saying. I think the fans often view things that way. Well where if somebody is playing a big flashy game with idols and stuff like that. They often don't think of that player as a social player and they think of players who have these sort of camp is the moment as more social players. But I think that this episode is sort of a thesis statement on why. That's not necessarily the case that these kinds of players do not also have great social games one hundred percent. I mean I think you know with Tony. Such even as winners. He's such an anomaly and I think say about his social game. I think we just look at the token footage the way he has to go to each person. I don't want to jump ahead colleen. Talk about that more but how to each player convince them to give them a token that can essentially get them back in the game. They were voted out So we we cut over to to Tony and he says I want to do damage. I WANNA play the game But there's there's no point in keeping Jeremy around but I am going to go undercover in real life. I don't get to go. Undercover Real. Life is much more dangerous than survivor. So I get to have fun survivor and go undercover there this whole time. I'm just thinking about Derek Vassar. Which was like in both won their seasons very very close to each other Derek. One on big brother. I've Derek actually was a guest on this podcast and so would have been interesting to see Derek. Take on this. But he goes and he tells. Jeremy Says Hey. Kim told me to vote. Sophie Tyson was saying to vote. Denise and I was blindsided. I was just confused. He's trying to pretend like he wasn't really with the other group that it was just after after Jeremy. Lefty was very confused with the votes. Were going somewhere and so he says I have to pretend on aside. I'm really not and so. That's that's that's that's what he's trying to do here goes to Michelle he says. Yeah Jeremy's closest person in the game and so it Tony. He's playing double agent. He's gone undercover. Yeah no he. He's one hundred percent going undercover and the only person I think that was kind of aunt and maybe more people were than we saw but Kim was the only person who was like. I think Tony's trying to play both ways by me. Jeremy was convinced that he was on his side. Ben was convinced that he was on his side so Tony was getting the best of both worlds at that. Yeah we we get a great interaction with him and Tony Starts. Kim says to Tony. You wanted Sophie out like deadpan. Like she doesn't believe it to Tony's yes. What did you think was going to do? I think you're GonNa vote Jeremy Stare Straight at him. I I think you'RE GONNA Vote Jeremy. Stare like turn and stare like I'm reading your reaction love. Oh my God Bro. No no you tell me if I'm wrong you're wrong you're wrong I was. I was German. Tony says he's US. The only way I can blindside these guys is by continually pretending. I'm on their side and so he says to Kim now now getting nervous because they might do something they might want to do. Something to me can just like. I don't think so. Yeah no it's here's a cool thing about this season that we're so lucky to be able to watch. She's winning play. Because in some seasons Tony doing that people might not be able to believe and they might not say yes but we each of these players with whether you love them or hate them. They're all winners in their respective seasons. So they come into the season right here with a special building they can see through most of. I'd say they play the game hard and they know when their game played many of the Times so I think in that moment came has experienced and knows Tony is prime minister. And she's not buying it. So I think that was really cool and you might see maybe a lesser player or just convinced. Yeah Tony says he's having all the survivor land so Jeremy. Let's Michelle know that he does want to work with Tony. They had a talk. He was extremely believable. Tony was Jeremy tells us that he feels good about their group of five which is himself. Michelle Kim Denise and Tony Michelle agrees. She thinks we're going to get through this. It's GonNa be okay so Jeremy and Michelle are both on board with Tony. But Kim and Denise Are Not Kim tells denise I think Tony's trying to play double agent but and but it will really be myself or Jeremy that he tries to get out here she tells us Tony. Has this axe going on trying to sell salvage a relationship with Jeremy? I'm not supposed to know what Tony's doing but I do know and I think Tony is my biggest enemy out here right now. Yeah no I think it's the knees hands Martin guests on then. I think it just speaks volumes that Jeremy should have been the most worrisome. Who's on his side or not but he was completely in on Tony like he only has one hundred percent and he was counting on that vote. I it's my question. Is you think that if the knees and Kim like they believe. Tony was with them when they vote as they walked. They truly stayed with that book it is. It's really interesting and a part of me wonders. You Know Kim. Kim keeps saying things like. I'm not supposed to know this but I do know this. I know this for sure. I wonder if Kim knows this because she's already been talking to Sophie and Sarah and talking about flipping over and so when. Tony is trying to pretending. Jeremy she already knows that. That's a plan that's been put in place and she's just not telling Jeremy about it because we don't ever see Kim talked to Jeremy saying Tony's not with you is so I I wonder if she knew partly because she read it but also because she had the relationship with Sarah and Sophie and they told her and so and I also wonder how much of that relationship that Kim and Denise had was Sarah and Sophie influence ultimate decision to flip back around to take to take sophie out inside with Jeremy. Without Kim and Denise being on board. We'll we'll get into it as we go to see if there's any any validity to those theories so we had over to the edge of extinction and this is the way they put. This together was so cool to me like this little sequence where they start with Tyson just talking like he's giving a lecture on survivor or something as they have some music under it and there's a montage and we're just hearing Tyson say some mentalities can handle it and some can't can ruin people's lives to lose the game. Yeah there's a lot of people that go home and struggle with it for years and it's like the super serious insightful speech and ends it with for reals Guinea cuts to him talking to Wendell. I'd windows it's like. Yeah he's like you'RE GONNA BE OKAY. Wendall so good you're strong Adams GonNa have a hard time at a walked. The Tyson Got Adam voted out. Now he's saying he's going to have a hard time but Yeah no that's why I love Jesus Straight face and then you turn yeah. Hopefully I'll be good because you know I've been on this beach with my ex for like thirty days now in though. Yeah so I think this is a correct quote though. I think Tyson is completely right when he talks about this like it really does eat it people for a long time to go on a show like this and lose and I think that they talked about it last night on the note all like I feel like especially for winners to go on and play who have never experienced losing then going to experience it for the first time it must. It must have some sort of impact on your identity. Because you're you have gone through life. You're a survivor winner. You've never lost and now you're survivor. Loser one hundred percent on the series too. I think it's like hype. I think reality. Tv show when you come off that you feel some sort of way especially in today's age ain't day and age like social media. There is like a pressure of the fans how you perform but also on this season two. I. It's you know it's weird because survivor is like the people honesty's are watching it as it goes. You saw they already know what's coming. They don't know how to react to an episode react about doing certain moves so it's definitely a lot of pressure. I think on the island there are also thinking about man like I went home right now or I went to Ireland. And who knows what's going to happen especially after one my season so yeah. It's tough mentally. I think he does a lot to them. I hope they can all remember that there are also survivor winners. No matter what their bank accounts most of our pretty happy already. I well experience Ben is GonNa say later. You know it's crazy how fast a million goes Yup. Who knows what their counselor now. We're going to take a quick break for our sponsors and we'll be right back and we're back. So let's get back to the show. So Natalie just just going to randomly find a wine bottle on the beach with clue that part of it was just like. Did somebody just leave a bottle of weight through the clue in it? Yeah that was. That was a little. I don't know wondering if someone wave. Hey y'all should talk over here you know what's going on right there. Hands SEASON EPISODE. Office like you go and then cameras zoom and right there under just literally something there. Yeah so approached. Says in his little recap thing that he does sometimes that they decided to give the clue out this way that they put it somewhere on the beach that people go all the time so that they knew someone would find it and it would be this cool little moment where they just kind of stumble upon a clue. Okay okay so yeah okay. So so very notable here in the previous episode or the one before whatever was poverty and Danny had found the fifty fifty coin advantage. And they sold it to Michelle for four tokens. So poverty got four tokens from that she. We know that she bought at least one jar of peanut butter. We saw that in the secret. Seen however in this confessional the little lower third things as part of a zero tokens. So if that's correct and not just a mistake. She has somehow spent all four of her tokens and currently. Has No tokens left? I don't know what that means if it means that peanut butter got a lot more expensive or if it means that. She bought four jars of peanut butter. Or if it means that she gave to her tokens to Danny since Danny was with her when she founded and then spent the her other two on two jars of peanut butter or maybe each peanut butter was to Tokens I'm not sure exactly what it was. Somebody said she answered it in a tweet. What did she say what she if she did? Let me now because I would I would love to now love to know but she but the point here is that she has no tokens left at this point. Who knows how many she gets from this? I think I'm seeing that she did. Give Danny too. And then she barks jars of peanut butter reading that. Okay you know. It's expensive peanut butter on that island and Coney said that inflation happens with these survivor. Tokens so I you. You've talked about this previously. But I absolutely love this concept of the Fire Tokens. I think they've added a different dimension to the game. And I think in a way it's I dunno is adding a different strategic element about like a bartering system. You know and we put the value on these tokens because they can say how many they want and different things. So I would love to see this expanding. I love this episode. How it works in all you talk about but the extortion. That's part of my by far right here. All right well they figure out okay. The thing is under the bed so they go and PARV distracts them. They go see the sunset. Natalie grabs thing and it's an extortion advantage and it prevents somebody from playing in the immunity challenge and from voting in the next cycle. If they don't meet the payment demands and so- Natalie's I thought was okay. We have to think about either. How many tokens we can get. Or how much damage we can do and so. This has definitely been a topic of conversation. How much could they have charged? I think theoretically they could have. Just give us one hundred tokens and screwed somebody over who couldn't possibly fulfil the requirement. It doesn't seem like that was against the rules. At the very least they could have said like ten like something impossible and just to screw up somebody in the game. I don't I don't like love that but I do. I do like the idea of sort of like it. They have they can. They can set their own price and they can. They can put a penalty on people. I think that this kind of works in the game would have definitely come off a little differently if this ends up. Lake screwing Tony. And it's the reason why he lost because he didn't he wasn't able to have enough. Fire Tokens like that would have been probably a bad look for the episode. Luckily though Tony is able to pull this one through so I kind of Harken it to like big brother eight where you put a really good player in a really really bad position. It can make good TV as long as they're able to persevere for awhile but if it doesn't work out then it then it might not be as fun entirely sure how I feel about it overall. I think I love the concept of how they did. Extortion I think there might have been and I wonder if it was. Maybe like a a suggestion. Maybe like maybe you shouldn't go over eight. Maybe you should go. You know. Maybe this is like telling him a little bit like this realist number. I do wish that either took out your ability to be in the competition. Competing there or you're voting. Not both. I think it was too powerful to be like. Well you can't be in. This competition can go for me and you definitely can't vote so. I I think I would have felt a little better about the portion was just one of the one or the other. Yeah and like so. For example if these alliances had stayed the same and it was five to four and they extort Tony. He's unable to pay. Its now a four four vote and maybe they go to rocks lake. This could have dramatically changed the outcome of the entire season if if it takes the right person at the right time and I don't know how much influence we want to be able to give the these edge players with that sort of thing but it works out in this episode so it's okay so great. Tv It was great TV when we and especially Tony's reaction when he gets that you know little letter at he's reading it line by line by face to wait. I'm getting extorted. Yeah I WANNA say again. The editing in this episode is so fantastic so many funny little cuts they They say that okay. Poverty says we need to give it to somebody. That's chaotic enough. That would stop at nothing to get those tokens to not sit out of a challenge. Knocks it out of a vote that will then? We'll get whatever price we want. And we just cut to a shot of Tony. Just kind of sitting sitting there twiddling his thumbs closer to his face and then we cut to commercial great moment. So here's the question. If you're indisposition your Tony. Right you are right smack in the middle. Would this actually being blessing in disguise though? Because then you don't need to show your cards because he's in that moment that four of them think he's doing this said the other four is on that side. This is an excuse. My hands are tied right now. There's nothing I can do or do you think the risk of him going out is too much not I mean. That's exactly what I was thinking and tweeting at the time was like this is a great opportunity for Tony to just be like I was extorted from my vote. Sorry guys can't help out. But but that's I think the brilliance of Tony is that he goes beyond. I think that first instinct that you that somebody might have and he takes it a like five steps further and ultimately I think he took it somewhere that I didn't predict and that is ultimately I think better for his game than than what he would have done otherwise we'll ultimately find out as time goes on but we'll we'll talk about that as he as he makes that call. We have to. I talk though about evil. Jonathan Vampire. Oh yes was that neigh Cudi. Yeah yeah it says. He was called the Evil Jonathan Vampire on the Internet after he won. And I. I've got to say I've never heard that before I tell nicb either. I was so confused. I know by probably changes contact name for that and so when this is done hopefully grow some sort of event for him and other people around here. I'M GONNA put a huge banner just for him. Yeah he says Michelle says you do have kind of vampire features. Yeah and look like twilight. Vampires good-looking Nick. Shine the light. I think it was the first time. Nick Got Eight. Hands since his season. So good for into beyond son for sure I feel I feel like nick fares very well with the island hot. Yeah no for sure. And it's funny. He was telling me tweet about this. He's like man. This is the first one I came off. My because his season wasn't much as much time between his season and this season they was talking when I came off my see. That's the first time I bank account said had that many Zeros and he's like I eat as much food as I possibly could. I didn't care about how I look out on the island so either from the just happy children have a little dad. Now I mean he's island heart thing out Then we get. Tony is just run. Sprinting through the jungle just like he jumps down into the ground collapses and he's so excited. Oh my God I've got. I found something. It's in my bag. I saw I came right over here. Okay let me open it up Oh I got I I read is extortion. This is great in real life. I can't do this but I watched it in the movies. And One guy like mobsters they extort people in there. I'm GonNa Break Your Legs Zalm and this is so exciting. And he's he's reading it through things like okay extorted. The can't compete in immunity. They can't vicious illegal man. Oh man this is so. The disadvantage is being played against you. He drops the note. His face drops visible the demand. Is Six fire tokes illegal? I'll tell you what man in real life. You're doing some prison time. This is extortion code to see something. I don't know it's a criminal code. Extortion is legal in the states. I don't know why it's not a legal here in Fiji. This is ludicrous. I've got three tokens. They want six. It's so funny and I you know maybe threes regency vice. But I really think this scene right here in going to go down in the highlights of survivor house alcoholic. Most funny moments I. I couldn't stop laughing. Like having his fees go from like so excited and look how he has to put this in real life coffee. No don't worry it's not really good in the game. Breakbone right knees. Let's export some like. It was so funny. Yeah I did look it up. Actually he is correct. The Criminal Code for extortion is to see twenty five of laws. Good so in in Jeff's little recap thing he he talked about this this note in particular And he said that when they were writing the note they were all laughing knowing that the key line is at the bottom and so they were very they were very much doing this on purpose to get someone excited and he said that Tony Redick that moment that no it was one of his favorite moments of the season is so funny and I try to go down my head who left and there would have had kind of reaction that would have given us a single but I think Tony by you couldn't be his reaction. You really couldn't so Tony says And not only the extorting me. I'm on a time limit. I've got to get these tokens. So his first. He's going to approach his fake. Alliance for Tokens and say. They need to help him so that he can help them with the vote and so he goes to Michelle and asks her for some Tokens and tells us. Oh crap. I have zero tokens because I spent them on my fifty fifty coined. I want to give tokens but I can't so she has to spin this story about having an advantage for the challenge on extinction. Now I've seen some people say what a great lie that. Michelle came up with because it discourages them from voting her out because she's got this advantage for the challenge. I actually have a slightly different perspective on this now. Obviously she's making this up on the spot congrats for making up. Ally doesn't put you in immediate danger right now and all of that but I do disagree with the notion that this discourages people from voting her out because if she has an advantage for the challenge to get back in from extinction that actually encourages people to vote her out so that she beats all of the other challenges like Tyson and rob and whoever from coming back in. Because that's those are the more dangerous people because the last thing you want. Is Somebody like Tyson coming in at final six or whatever and then winning just two immunity challenges fire making and all of a sudden? Tyson's won the game so if I'm sitting there on the island I'm thinking while Michelle has the advantage to get back into the game. Let Me Vote Michelle so that she comes back into the game. I am going to have an easier. Time beating her at these final immunity challenges. Yeah I didn't really think about that as much in that way. By a good point I think that would only hurt her more son. I'm interested back. Maybe what the final seven final eight because no one was still wanNA put her off. It'd be I think the worried voter off now. Just in case you get voted off compete against Michelle but I can easily see maybe someone someone bringing that back up in like seven or obsessive conversation on show that we heard. Michelle has this. Let's get her out so she can come back and we don't have a chance of going to the island now. So yes sir. I don't think that it will impact the game in that direction just as a counterpoint to I think some of the things that I was reading I think this could go either way. Depending on how the players are thinking about it but overall good that she is not admitting to having an advantage that is played in the game. It seems like the nobody is doubting this. She's telling anybody else this as well but Tony just as the price of milk just went up advantage. She got an advantage for four tokens. We've got some major inflation going on so crazy. That Tonio misuses incense to the advantage. He got more information you know and I wonder I was thinking that no one really went around asking anybody. Like how many tokens? But that's not the conversation at least from what we've seen and correct me if I'm wrong but no one's have been. We haven't seen any scenes. Where like someone's like? How many tokens you have. Or how many so this starts people crowding maybe using other? Excuse me to figure out. How many hoping someone might have actually. Yeah and there's there's actually sort of a classic sort of I don't know what you'd call it but Thing that says that when you ask someone for a favor it actually gets them to like you if somebody does you a favor and then you even more seemingly it would make you like them more but actually it makes them like you more because in their mind. I just did something for this person. I must have done it for a good reason. Yeah so it actually makes people like you more and I do wonder how much of that is going to benefit Tony by them. Giving him things now obviously I think it could backfire even more if you then stabs him in the back but and this is why I was a little like. Oh you're going to the group that you're planning to betray. And you're asking them for Tokens. And then if they give you tokens so that you can vote and then vote against them through so mad at you Tony. I was worried about this. So but Michelle says okay. Jeremy has tokens. I'll go ask him. And and so a. GimMe the No. I'll go talk to Jeremy. And he's like okay. Okay and so. She goes to Jeremy and she says he's not gonna be able to vote with us at tribal unless he pays six tokens which is worst case scenario for us. Jeremy and Jeremy just laughs in dismay like nothing can go right for me the season for Jeremy. Yeah those funny that you know it felt like that and I wonder like Jeremy being in a position where he felt like he asked to give a tim because probably Tony can trust him if he does. It may be but do you think Jeremy. Giving him token when she ultimately decides to do using the instils. Trust and Tony be like wait. You know what I might want to keep you so maybe in another world. Jeremy's like I can't give you get makes up an excuse him out instead. I I completely think I think that the fact that Jeremy Gives Tonia token proves the Jeremy. Trust Tony and I have a feeling that Tony is gonNA feel a lot less comfortable switching up this vote. If he doesn't have that confirmation that Jerry believes him and so I absolutely think again like I think it helped bond them together a little more which was very essential for the coming vote. Jeremy tells US trust is huge out. Here Tony Trusts me and I want him to know as much as he needs. I need him as much as he needs me. I want him to know that it's very important that he knew then so. I'm going to give him one. I could give him my other one zero zero so Jeremy Approaches Tony and he says I have a plan. I'm gonNA give you one. And then he gets cut off. Tony's confessional. I Really WanNa know what Jeremy's plan was because I doubt it was go to nick and Ben. Jeremy seemed to have some kind of plan for Tony to get the others that we just never heard and I'm very very interested in knowing what this plan was. Yeah no I wonder what it would end. But maybe do you think he would have been trying to say. Why don't you try to convince Ben to give you one because at that point or Jimmy wanted to still vote out Ben Bench. You'd think you'd think that Jeremy's plan what assumption is I'll give you one and here's the thing I have a plan. Denise has three and Kim has two so denise can give you two or denise and Kim both can give you one like somehow we can definitely get up to three here Tony but whatever it was we don't hear it at. Tony says to us that he's now. Thinking has to go to Israel alliance to to get the other tokens here so he approaches. Nick and Nick says I can give you one approaches Ben and he also says okay. I will pay you one. Tony says I'll pay back pay at the least happy actually didn't do it too. Well Ben only has one token. Ben Is the only person here okay. Yeah gives up his only token for Tony in this moment. Ben Is the only person in the game. Ben and Sarah only had one token each and Ben gives his only token to Tony here. And Tony says I'm loaded. I am well yeah This is my official payment for that. Disgusting Advantage. Somebody sent me. I will be voting tonight. You think he doesn't. I wonder if he asked Sarah. Actually you think he's right at Sarah to it would bring up suspicion where like. Why do you actually need this? Because we're good on the boat or that she you know I'm curious. This is something. I'm super curious about because after the fact when you look back at the people he chose to ask for Tokens. It makes you wonder. Why didn't he ask Sophie for token so if he has to so if he's in his group of five they need Tony's vote probably maybe they don't feel like they need to because they already feel like they have Kim and denise so he's he doesn't go to Kim he doesn't go to Denise Tony Seemingly already knows that those two are gone? We were presented? This like Kim and Denise. They flipped after the immunity challenge. I really feel like Kim into knees flipped as soon as they got back from the previous. I think they were never back with Jeremy. I think that's why they knew. Tony was playing Jeremy and they just didn't tell Jeremy about it. I think that Tony knew that they were playing on that side. And he he. That's why he never went to Kim. Or or denise to try and get their token denise has three tokens and everybody knows about these tokens so she'd seems like a no brainer to go to. Tony thinks that this is a group that is still together at all. And and he does not go to Sara. He does not go to Sophie. Which is very interesting considering that Sarah at the very least is seemingly number one. She only has one token but shortly. She's he's the person most likely even the people he ends up going to are the people he ends voting with apart from Ben in the in the following tribal council. He goes to Michelle Jeremy. Then Nick and then to get the final one because those are all three of the people these plans to vote with that night. The final one comes from somebody else then. Who's the person who was I? Guess most likely to give him one or whatever it is but it almost seems like Tony was already thinking. I'm playing on his finest at this point. Maybe he went to the people for him. It might have been a test figure out the continue working if you wanted if I mean. That's five people. You guys tokens with those people. He asked already almost. There wasn't showing that he talked to anybody else. But maybe that was kind of indicated and I'm curious to see because then gave him one. Maybe he's trying to build a bridge between Jeremy and ben down the line again. Yeah Super Super Interesting. I can't wait to listen to the post game interviews so we can find out exactly what's going on in all of these situations and the cool thing is too. I feel like we haven't had this type of interaction before on survivor. And this kind of this. This has. We've never had an element by fire tokens introduced. And this is kind of what I was hoping for when these were first introduced. Some sort of Gimmick. You know that you need you get like us to have the party system by peanut butter and things like that which it is but this element. Where is the trust factor like? There's a tangible thing you can show your trust other than immunity idol and that's a fire token. Yeah and that's that's the part of this episode and the part of this twist that I loved. I loved having this kind of currency in the game. I do think there are potential pitfalls for this extortion advantage. But what again what we saw. The end result was fantastic. I think if there's a way to incorporate the end result in a way that doesn't have the potential pitfalls. I think we've got something really good here. And this was great stuff. Tony having to pull together tokens in order to make something happen. You know either. He had this planned ahead of time. Or maybe the people that gave him. The Tokens also gave him. The idea of I can get these people together to vote. Whatever it was. We're ultimately going to see something very special occur from this but first have to go to the immunity challenge which Tony can compete in. Because he now has those tokens and this is there standing on a balance beam and they're holding thing up with the poll. It lasts for more than thirty two minutes. Which is apparently Jeff says longer than they've ever done this challenge and it comes down to Ben Jeremy and Tony Benn drops out Jeremy Drops. Right after and Denise is like what the Hell and Kim looks upset but but that's because Tony has won immunity. And with that comes to tokens and Jeff puts the neck the necklace around his neck and he says second time in a row go from nothing to dominating Antonis. I don't say that man don't say that. Yeah No. This was cool. I mean hats off to all of them. I can't imagine going so many days on the island right there. What are they three weeks and yet on that island and they're having to do such a thirty two minutes your whole you're earning and still for them to hold it that long. That's crazy but I wondered too in. That situation even had a chance because he went from three to one automatically. Jeremy's Roth right after the nick drunk or the band was the third person. Ben Dropped. Jeremy dropped right after dinner. Okay so I wonder. What's the situation? If Jeremy and on the Jeremy Coney's think maybe I should draw cut. Keep fighting for it. You know or does that. Cause a little animosity between both you know. I don't know a lot of people in the order of his alliance. These pony what. Yeah sorry you're a little choppy with the Internet. I think we stumbled over each other a little bit. I'm sorry I'm sorry. It's all so a lot of people have been saying in the CIA. I've seen some people say it on the Internet that people feel like Jeremy might have thrown this immunity challenge. It kind of looked like he did kind of steps off. I I'm with Steven from the note all's last night. I do not think Jeremy through immunity challenge. I don't think there's any reason for him to. I think that he probably just like looked over at Ben when Ben dropped and that made him lose his balance and you could see like he stepped off but he was not balanced when he stepped off he stepped he stepped off and then had to take another couple of steps back because he wasn't prepared for it and he ends up hitting his foot against the back of the thing next to him and if he was planning on dropping and stepping down in a controlled way you probably would have had a bit more balance on his way down not to mention the fact that it just doesn't make sense from to throw this at all you can save like maybe he's giving it to Tony. Tony feels comfortable switching over. But if Jeremy Safe Jeremy safe he doesn't have to worry about it at all one hundred percent to chat said there I mean what is Jeremy had zero incentive to drop out and I agree completely there was. There's no reason why he should have grown this competition and I don't think he did so. Jeremy says they will be voting for Jeremy and had he not won the necklace he would enable to play in the immunity challenge. Now I think notably like. He's Tony's not necessarily saying that he's going to be running for Jeremy Again. I'm not. I'm not entirely sure when this plan formed in Tony's head but but it's going to be hard to know for sure we we come back to camp and Kim says to us. She did not want Tony to win today. But winning to back to back it's not bad it puts target. Antonis back so for Tony. He's completely playing Jeremy and I completely know about it. Jeremy only has Michelle at this point so my only option is to go back to this other group which I don't trust it's a precarious position. It's not my favorite. That's what I gotta do. Yeah yeah no it's interesting to see the SP rambling right. But when they come back in their figuring out who's on whose side and also it's It kind of reminded me of I forgot. What season was Keats like? Stick to the plan and everyone had stick to the plan. But what was the plan? I was actually thinking of Keith. In this episode I was thinking about how like this isn't all winter season. They are all so good at this but there there are no. Keith's here Lake fumbling giving up giving up the game at tribal a so well so I also thought this is funny. That like Kim and denise hop over to the other side and it's almost like Tony was like oh no no I not. If they're here I'm going to go with the other side if they're going to be here so Sarah Talks to Kim Sofi Ben and Nick and they all agree on Jeremy. Sarah Asks Denise if she's tight with Jeremy and Sorry Sarah Asks Kim if Denise Tight with Jeremy Kim Says No Sarah asks should we put some votes on Michelle in case? Jeremy has an idol. Kim says yes okay. Let's go let's get to votes on Michelle You. I will right Michelle. Everyone else will right Jeremy. And so if he tells us in confessional. I haven't idle and this I was like. Oh she's reminding us. A better idol is not good news for Sophie. An island my pocket but we have enough to split the vote. And that's good because we don't know where the other idols are in the game and I feel like I have to say this again. I I do not love this Sophie Sarah Group and their votes splits. I feel like they mess up their votes splits all the time. I'm still not M- understanding what they were doing. The previous tribal council. I also feel like I don't fully understand what they're doing here if they have a solid five. If that's real then why are? They splitting the vote in this way so they have five votes. They're getting another two from Kim and denise that makes it a seven to two to vote and so they're splitting five votes on on Jeremy Two votes on Michelle and so that if Jeremy plays an idol. It'll be a tie between Michelle and and whoever the the other side votes for but why only to first of all. And why are they trusting the two new additions Kim and denise to vote differently because if that's the case like it's just like the they could easily basically telling Kim and denise here's where the idol could be played and and if you guys decide to flip over then then you could get two votes over there now you know where the idol is played. And you really only need one more. Vote to flip this whole thing around and that's just so dangerous. Why not just put him into these both on on Michelle or something along those lines or whatever it is. It's just it's it's a little. It's a little confusing. Yeah no I think I definitely think they kind of over dawn on it but I wonder also is that when you're talking is tough with votes. Leon and I'll speak on from my like experienced. Things is that it seems like it's hard to gain the room by herself but in this side is Alan Wise. You know so. I wonder if they just didn't have enough time to talk about it and they. That's the first thing they kind of thought about like you do this. You do this and we won't come back to this you know again. That's still marriage that somebody should should it? Come back because they've already played the new one the seasons. They should have come back to the point. Saying I'm a little worried about this winning but I think it wanted to spend that. They were wanting to make a decision quickly. Want to speak about it and move on from but it'd be back and ask so So it's a little weird. They seem to trust Kim and denise quite a lot with this whole plan And so because again like all they need to do is any of the four of if Kim Denise Jeremy or Michelle if any of them find found the idol and you have to be extremely worried that one of them did because nobody in the five is fessing up to having the idol. Then all Kim Denise need to do is say all the votes are going. Jeremy All we need to do is vote. Play the Jeremy. Vote someone else and boom. We've we've taken one of them out just like that and so it's dangerous. It seems very dangerous from my perspective. Here take I'm curious to see if any of them approached Michelle. The foreign were like. Hey we're gonNA vote out Jeremy. We want to be voting on. Put your vote on here. A who knows who she would listen but then had that conversation to your point is figure out. Maybe she has an idol. May you know try to have A. I wish it was a discussion because it just seemed like there looks like ourselves. They're both grew. And when you're on the bottom you have nothing to lose at that point you know so ultimately. I think that we have to Credit Kim and denise here again there's no way. They flipped on the third day of this three day cycle. Just no way that happened. There's no way that there was enough. Trust in Kim and Denise for this vote split if they weren't on board for days ahead of time in my opinion that clearly Kim and Denise had put in some major work to get in with that group were. There is a secret scene between Kim and Sarah. That we'll talk about a little bit later Where they seem to have developed a pretty tight bond came as putting in some good work short. Denise is putting in good work as well so they really seem to have trust. Trusted Kim Denise and for good reason came and niece did vote with them they did not try to flip this around and I don't know if they would have tried if they if they did have an idol or knew where the idol was so So this is what we have here. Kim Denise and Jeremy Are GonNa agree to vote how Ben. This is the fake plan. Denise now is telling. Us I'm playing double age. I'm actually not voting ban. Myself and Kim are in cahoots together to blindside Jeremy and then we get this confessional from Jeremy where Jeremy says at the start of the game. I like Ben. He's I thought he's a good guy. That's my friend Now everything he does annoys me and here are the examples of things Ben. Does that Annoy Jeremy. Everything he doesn't know me he doesn't want to work with me. Very annoying. Kim would love to see Bengo so my preferred target is Ben. Yeah I love it this rage. Jeremy has against. Ben Is so I it must. It must stem from somewhere else. I mean they all had kind of that The body tactic. Where like we want the big names in here so we can turn on. But it's just it's feels personal when Jerry Jerry Taco bell bed. It's just like everything about him. Everything I really I really was. I was expecting like especially after the Knicks. Jeremy's like Nick. He's so knowing like slides into frame all the time and we got a whole montage but I was so ready for like a banned list and montage and the guy doesn't WanNa work with me very annoying so Michelle is down. All five of us are into takeout band says Michelle and so here we go. Ben Says this is when we get a quick quote from Ben Crazy. How quick a million guys and I feel worried for Ben. I hope he's still got some. I hope I hope still got some of them. I think I think overuse frozen so there we go so tony. Tony says it's been a quiet afternoon and you know what if they WANNA stop or slow down. That's better for me because I'm not stopping or slowing down. I've always thinking when they're not and when he says. This is a great shot of Tony. Drinking from his canteen and just like giving the camera side. I like Like he's just always watching and so he says I've been patient long enough now. I have an opportunity to flip flop. Sophie has gotten too close to Sarah so my target is so my real alliance is splitting the votes which prevents me which presents me with an opportunity. Because I don't need that many numbers Jeremy and Michelle. Don't have a choice. If I tell them name they have to go for it. All I need is nick. I'm I'M GONNA wait minutes minutes before tribal to make this happen. There's a lot in here. First of all. He's completely correct. If he goes to Jeremy Michelle they have no choice. They tried to make this seem. Like what will Jeremy Do? But the thing is if Tony is pitching this idea to Jeremy. Jeremy knows he needs. Tony's vote to make the Ben Plan Happen to have Tony. You're saying I'm not voting on voting Sophie. Please vote with me. Jeremy knows he has to do it. And that's why Tony can wait until the last minute to make this happen and by waiting to the last minute. There's no possible way for Sophie to anticipate. This might be happening. So every part of this was very well thought out and very well executed and I was very impressed with this idea. No one hundred percent. Yeah I don't this. Is My one complaint about this episode? Really wish they didn't put it like Jeremy. Jeremy has to go with no matter. What if Tony says is depend on? The person is plan is also mainly dependent on on nick and I really wished he kinda showed a little bit more on like I. Don't I truly don't believe it was just a Nixon? I'll go with the flow because this was a decision he had to make. That would change the trajectory of his game. Either way you know this because this is making a break from it especially earlier than some people thought so I really wish kind of show a little bit more of his thought processes instead of showing this like. Yeah I'll go for it. You know I think he deserves more than that I think there was some cool strategy that we missed out. Kind of weighing the pros and cons. Kind of like how a you'll and pender. Did you know if we do this? We do that you know. So but it was cool to see how it worked out and Tony masterfully that I'm GonNa wait before tribal are like humans before and they made this off. Yes so the scene. We get with. Nick is he is so. Tony Tells Nick. Tonight is a great opportunity because I have the necklace. And is that a great opportunity for nick though like great that you're safe. Tony. I don't know why this is a selling point to nick. But he says I have the necklace and so he He goes and he says that he we're GonNa tell them me. Knicker GONNA save. You owe us so. Would you be willing to make that move? Nick and I think very notably here nick goes. It's tough and then there's a very clear cut. He's like yeah I'll do. It was like oh great. Exactly it just makes it look like Nick's going through and of course I'm biased. But I know there was a lot more thought and to your point like what's in it for me at this point we don't know as a viewers and were convinced nick's going with the flow. I think Tony had to do some sort of pitch explain team and nick had kind of ways posing. Khan who just got a confessional from next thing you know what I think. This might be the time to make a move. That would make me happy. So if you if you had to guess lovie. What would your guess be for Knicks? Motivations here what is running through next head? He's trying to figure out so right now. You know he's in the five of people where he probably not much closer to each person has a duo you know and I don't really know Nixon bents relationship but they didn't really show much of it on there so that would be the one person you would think that they would be connected with but he also has some sort of feelings with Michelle you know. There's that connection for him Michelle Window. They were that war with you'll so. I think he probably feels better to go with Jeremy. Michelle over some of these other folks and I think the other thing was. He probably didn't have a connection strong connection with Sophie. So getting her out at that point of gain doesn't hurt his game because they did connection as much so I think it was kinda thrown into that way and I wonder I really wonder if when Tony One those tokens. He gives me cocaine. Or who did he give? Those two tokens back in. That might have been a true trust. Tony gave me back token. He wants me to do this. That's a strong core. Maybe we can do things and also I rambled on about this. Nick is not seen as the mastermind. Split you know the pressure is on Tony? So that gives you a strong move on his resume. Get Sophie who is somebody who's honest side and maybe he can move forward this war. Yeah I think the only explanation episodes of tried to give us. Is that a couple of episodes ago during the The atom vote off. We had a confessional from nick where he talked about chaos and how the more chaos there is in the game the better for me because I can navigate and we can break people up around. What's happening with that? Chaos and I talked about this this this is a big brother strategy and I love. The Nick brings the brother strategy into the game and so. I wonder if that was the episodes attempt at explaining. Why like future motivation for this move if that was part of his motivation here because as you said he's Yes a part of this five but if he runs to the end with this five does he really have a chance of winning. You Have Been Sophie and Sarah. As they're really tight they were on the Yarra tribe together. Then you have Tony. Who Super Tight with Sarah? And then you have nick. Who's like been brought in by Tony Seemingly so he doesn't really have a place seemingly in this group of five to get to the in the first place and then even if he does the other people were running that alliance right. So how does he make a claim to win this game and I think he's going to have a hard time making a claim to the jury at all anyway because he's the newest winner he's one of the youngest guys out there? He does not have a family. A Nick has to play an insane game. I think to win a jury so when presented with an opportunity like this I think. Of course you have to take this. You have to hope that. Probably that Tony Either pisses people off so bad that there's a jury or Tony Ends up leaving somehow or you can take him out and then you can take some credit for this move but ultimately we we likely will not know what. Vick was thinking until after the season no I really wish more like at its for him to talk about it more but yeah no I think every player this is starting to think you know. I'm only seeing pad your resume but you need to have moments in the game. Where US shifted. The game deserve a win. You know because you're going against other winners and as you look at the players around if you realize that I haven't shifted game. Shift the game to make it positive for me. Every chaos and shifting game. It might be tough like you said that you know. Make an argument for yourself at the end because these people are just going to simply get out and I think that's definitely played an accent too. Yeah so so Tony says to us. Our four will be stronger than they're three and they're too. I will be golden if I can pull this off. And so he goes and he talks to Jeremy and this was a great scene where Tony goes to Jeremy's as Kim and denise are not with you he can barely finish the sentence Jeff. Why not? Why not so Kim and Sarah are going for Michelle? Everyone else is supposed to go to you. I'm taking me. Nick away from those numbers and giving them to you us for votes Sophie and she goes. He's why why because they were going to blindside you. Who's they everybody every body and this is such a great thing because first of all it's right before tribal. There's they're switching this up. This is the scene. We're seeing it happen and also because it's so weird for me seeing Jeremy so vulnerable in this spot like. I've never seen Jeremy like this before where he's been blindsided out of the game before and he's like. Oh these idiots He's been on the wrong side of vote earlier in the season he was like. Oh Damn it But I've never seen Jeremy just like on the bottom like this trying to gain some traction and then out of nowhere Tony's going to blindside him with this plan and he's just like you can't even tell what direction is upright now and we know Jeremy. Jeremy WANTS TO BE DRIVING THE CAR. He told us a few episodes ago and just when he feels like he's maybe getting some traction twenty comes in and he says Jeremy. Get in the back seat and let me drive and Jeremy as we pointed out literally has no choice. Jeremy tells US I didn't WanNa do anything different. I wanted Ben Gone but Tony told me the key came into needs are not with me and my first thought was. You're wrong I I just. I really don't know if people are coming after me. I don't know and seeing Jeremy like this is so crazy such like calm collected guy and like this is what the season is doing to these players. They are all so good and and they're all throwing each other off balance and it's so fun to see. Oh yeah one hundred percent. I mean. Put these winners. And we've seen it before winters on normalcy there able to walk through a lot of players because same experience to hearing parents. Cut Out yeah. Just we're just cutting out a little bit here and there. Okay sorry but each of these players have the same experience so they're able to play at such a high level so to your point like seeing. Jerem me handshake and not sure what to do. Especially when he really adamant about the strategy where he wants bigger plays around him as meat shields strategy has trouble adapting to figure out how to move from there it was. I think it spoke a lot to of Tony knowing that the only way to make Jeremy while his plan was to get him in that corner. The last few minutes like this is what? I'm GONNA do this. How it's going to be naked with me is going to happen. We saw that frustration with Tony. A little bit that he planned everything from you. Know all of this and one person. He's trying to save to make his whole move work. Jerry Jerry might not listen. You know we see that frustration. Seek out of of Tony. I like to see you know emotions that we don't see in players are regularly. Yeah Tony's IT'S LIKE. Can you please trust me and believe me? I can't sit here too long. Because they'll know I'm trying to blow them up. Please believe me and Jerry. Did you already talk to Michelle? No you have to go talk to her. Like Oh my God. Because now it's like he has to convince. Michelle to do this thing. And if Tony's playing him then he just screw shell over to like. He's like Taylor last minute. Votes Sophie Trust me and he says uh-huh Jeremy's reluctant begging him to save him which is a great line and we didn't. I don't think we did but we didn't get to see Jeremy. Talk Michelle Right. It just went straight to travel. Yeah right yeah. I'm curious to see if Michelle was like. Yeah I think we need to do this or if they even thought about talking to denise. Are Kim trying to be like? Hey is this really what's going on? Because that's what I was worried about this my flow back into Tony's face like Oh wait we need to act together so I'm sure that like they. They're both mar players. I'm sure they both thought through it and there. They came to the same conclusion. Like look either Tony's with us and we vote this way and it works or he's not with us and vote this way. It wouldn't have worked anyway that we would have been anyway so we have to just go with it and a great job both of them. Jeremy looks sad tribal. I'm sure he didn't have to work too. Hard to looks at all travel but Michelle gives nothing away. No no Keith. Keith nails here no sticking with the plan there's talk of building your resume and I thought this was a great conversation at tribal here. Jeff asks are there moves. You don't want credit for and nick actually replies like. It's kind of a paradox. That if you take credit for these big moves then you become a bigger target in the game but if you do to do take credit for the Mizzou comic beer target me and you don't take credit for moves then you might not win in the end because people don't think that you've done enough and it's great that we hear this from Nick considering the situation right now as well. We're like Nick. Very much was a part of this move but likely will not take as much credit as Tony. And it'll be very interesting to see how nick plays this out moving forward most definitely. I love these types of conversation. When asked these questions that we get to see him because such a Meta conversation you know we were talking about how the game is played like and we're making these moves a game witnessed itself? You know it's not just eliminating each other but the game about getting to the end. And how can you defend yourself? How can you convey the moves that you did to? The jury of people who've already played to give so there's so many moving parts and I love that they talk about some would say you want me like you should go for people who feel like on the defensive. At that moment it was so why. Would you make a strong move right now as again? Jeremy it's not talk about. Patty rented resume and she has all these lists of like. They both made good arguments about it so I think he's a conversation we really haven't seen specifically I could be wrong within the survivor. Part talking about like well. You're making a move just to make the move. That's just not. It's so I really enjoyed that. Yes lovie says. This is all great but nobody wants to resume that super long like He. It doesn't have quality to it. You don't be that annoying girl at school and it's like girl. Scouts and debate and math leads volunteers after school. It's just very obvious that you're patting your resume for no reason and I feel like Sophia. Always these great school metaphors. She's always bringing it back to the school people. Yeah I feel like everybody knows that one person and all of those things where you that person lovie no idea have enough time. I spent a little too much time playing video games to read a few other things the resume but I could definitely tell you during my my big brother. I didn't really have much chance had the resume so I would think a chance a chance in high school. I helped found a pizza club term. I love my resume for college for my college application. I was in a club. It's called the Pizza Pizza. That says Great Club could ever be. I would have loved to join that. Now that's padding your resume for a good reason that is I bet we tweet. Sophie asked her whether she would have thought that was. I think she'd say that's no. That's so Jeremy says it's also about timing. You can't beat anyone at the end. If you don't get to the end so- Jeremy knew that if he didn't play that advantage he'd be sitting in tic- right now. This is great from Jeremy. I love that. He's explaining himself in front of the jury we need is your from the jury like Oh. He's abandoning his crew. Now that came from Wendell. Jeremy really screwed over Wendell so maybe a biased sample there but but still good that he's explaining it to the jury framing this in a way that is not. I abandoned my people but I made a smart move because I wouldn't be sitting here if I didn't make that move. And so then they talk about. It was quiet afternoon and and it's time for the vote thing they go in they vote as Jeff is reading the votes. Jeremy's just staring bend down and we've seen him do this to nick during immunity challenge. Jeremy just loves the stair move. He loves JEREMY JEREMY. For me and good I used to love it because I think that's what Bena hates about. Jeremy as much are Robeson the wrong way in his season. You don't have as many people to just go straight up against him. Like Jeremy was just doing that. They don't care they're winner. You know on that. Yes and so. I'm super stressed at this point because it's either so fear. Jeremy I've a pretty good feeling it's going to be so which is super exciting but also Super Sad Because I love Sophie and and here come the votes Sophie Sophie Sophie Sophie. Because I live my pocket. Oh she's he's stumbling. I don't even know how to. How do I to this? Never done this before and Jeremy still staring down bed. That's the thing Jerry still. Sophia's getting a Jeremy goes like. Who's the biggest threat now? Ben Thank you so somebody could just tag is one that clip of Jeremy Rain looking at Ben and then when Soviet Jeremy still looking at that I love it and there's also a great call back to the first tribal where we're Jeremy's looking at Ben like am I in trouble like what's going on in Britain and then they blindside Jeremy. A Sophie says good job guys. I did not see it coming. I can take the idol out of my crotch. Now Ben just goes boom and sophie heads over to the equipping station. And she's still. She's she looks at the board with the firestone issues counselor votes. She's like counting like who screwed me. These fire tokens do so she ends up. Que- thing to Sarah we can Kim. Yeah Yeah and they're building up. The Tokens now And I think it really hurt like and also I in the beginning. I didn't get to see Sophie season as much or are you finish all the way but actually loves her through the season. It was kind of a gut shot like is. She didn't expect it at all and I think when she goes on the island you have that Little Clinton she's like this is how it feels like. I've never been inside like you. Just feel for especially idle idle efforts. Yeah we get the next segment which I don't usually talk too much about but there's such a great clip. Kim Says I have to get Tony. And she's just like staring and there's like her eye twitches just like to get him. Go off cells. I'm so pumped for Kim vs Tony. So So we have to the sofa heads to the edge. She says I've never been blindsided before it is a traumatic experience. I played the best that I could. It's a bummer. To go out with an idol in my pocket she. She walks over to the people on the edge. Like I'm sack she's almost crying. I feel so bad. She says to us the final words. She came into this game feeling like she was a bottom to your winter. And it's been fun realizing that she can hold her own. Obviously calling out the stock. Watch our legacy watch that we do here on this podcast and we'll be talking about very soon and I will say the first vote for the Legacy Watch. Sophie was a middle tier winner not a bottom tier winner but since then she has been since the first episode. She's been in the top tier and she has never faltered from the top tier so for your top tier winner. The Legacy Watch says you're not bought here whatsoever. If there's one thing you can take away from this episode. This was such a chaotic episode. And Tony Really handled it so well from what I saw. Of course there's lot were missing but so far no indication to shot was coming at her and I think Tony also planned. You need to make sure it'd be somebody who had no idea the shot would be coming at them So he he masterfully. Did and I mean Houston. Tony doesn't take shot itself. You right now I can see. Sophie goes so far this game. You know she could have been right there. And that's what hurts so much had an idol great positioning in the game with connection wife. Wasn't that big threat and it was crazy that Tony was the one person to see that he needs to take her out. Because you need to be closer to him because I don't think anybody else on their feet away. Later on yeah. Tony is just this kind of player. He does the thing that nobody sees coming. That who Tony Is. And that's why it was so hard for him to get here in the first place because he has that reputation and he demolished this structure. That likely would have led to. Sofi finding a lot of success. I mean she's in there with Nick and Ben and Sarah. Sarah might have a good chance to be Sophia. Jury vote although I think. Sophie is very well-spoken but Sophie manages to get Ben and Nick there. I think she probably wins that one and just her chances of winning this game. We're pretty good even just like one vote after this if she probably would have had enough control but who knows who knows. It's it's always hard to see especially because you know we saw so little of Sophie. I really feel like the edit. Was EDITING SOFI. In a very particular way where we needed to know that she was a threat in the game she was playing a very respectable game but at the same time we couldn't be so invested in her that we were mad at. Tony for doing this. So we heard very little from her in the last few episodes. I think so that we would feel a little more mixed about her leaving than than like just super super sad about it so so. That's all right so secret scenes we got. We got just a couple of them this scene between Sarah and Cam. I really recommend you watch this on. Cbs relaxes I think they might also posted to the Youtube Channel as well. That Kim says Sarah you're playing a hell of a game. Sarah says no not. Sarah says I wanted to play a game. That's not personal and it turned personal and Sarah is basically concerned that after her first season people just called her a bad person that That she was like she was unemotional. And they really ragged on her for the game that she played in all of that and she got a lot of hate and she feels like you know she. She might be along the same trajectory right now and she doesn't like that but Kim says don't look we both have. Ptsd from our experience. Like I got the same thing. We're both good people. I promise you don't be so hard on yourself. And Kim says to us and confessional says I came in not trusting Sarah but as MOMS we really started developing a friendship and she had really traumatic experience when she won. People made her feel like a bad person. But she's not she's a good person she's a wonderful person. I mean they're all good people out here and and I hope that's not lost and Sarah says to us that Kim really freed her up to be able to continue to play hard in this game because she was really really getting bogged down in all of all of this stuff and I think this is so important to humanize these people. Sarah does get a lot of hate for especially her game which I think largely because of the way that was edited but like a lot of these players often get hate and I think there are a lot of Kim stands than hate Sarah and like listen to Kim guys like. She knows what she's talking about. She has firsthand experience with Sarah. And you know this is a nice scene. Yeah I'm I don't WanNa go to over everything but I'm glad you brought this up because I think we're getting the viewership of the season. Two's going great but I also think so. Many people are stuck home and their online and they might be talking about the seasons more than other ones and I'm just seeing you know a lot of negativity towards some of these players for personal moves against people. These players playing for two million dollars is within the context of the game and I met a lot of these. They're great they're great people outside of the game even inside. So I mean said some positivity and understanding. You know the moves made within this this. Tv Show are within. They're not bad people outside of even regardless Powell to edit my show I think a lot of the they understand that and We'll probably preaching to the choir right here but it does it really savvy to see you know these players who love this game who went out there to entertain really getting a so much hate thrown at them for reasons that they should yeah And I've got to say I'm so impressed with with both of these women. Kim and Sarah both have played excellent game so far. I've talked about it over with over the course of the season with Sarah but I think really proving just how strong wind was in game changers and really doing so well out here. If Not for Tony I think Sarah might be an even better position than Sophie was really positioned to potentially win this game. Now with what Tony's done perhaps not we'll have to wait and see but she's really proven herself to be an excellent social player she is. Kim is not kidding. A lot of people came into this game planning to target Sarah not trusting. Sarah and Sarah turned them all around on her Which is very very impressive. And of course Kim having gotten here so impressed with the read on Tony with getting back in making this bond with Sarah being trusted enough to split the vote with this group continuing to now understand that Tony needs to go being the person's like we can't let this guy get the he is the biggest threat. I'm loving what I'm seeing from. I feel like they've both really solidified. Just how good they are at this game and this was a really nice scene. So you're seeing. I love secrets and we go to the edge. There's more yoga and it's a you'll scene. You'll says he really struggled about pulling the flag when he got there but he didn't want his kids to think he was acquitted. So he's so he's so glad he stuck it out. Seeing his girls out on the island was amazing for him and he wants to do more things with his wife like date night. And you know what she's been trying to get me to do yoga and it took me being stuck in an island to try it out and he's talking to poverty and they were on the Cook Islands together parties like. Yeah you know you get stuck in everyday life and you end up. Not Having Intentional Day and you will tell us what. I've been taking my life for granted. I'm so lucky and blessed and I didn't think I'd come out here and have any major revelations about my life but you know what I was wrong cool personal content from. You'll you always take it then. We got this stuff. From Jeff in the RECAP JEFF says. Maybe we should just called this episode. Tony's episode he says the extortion advantage was meant to emulate capitalism which. I thought was hilarious. Of course he said he says Tony. Reading the nose on his favorite ones this season Probes thinks that Tony made a good move here because Sarah Sophie is really good at this game the also in the Dalton Ross interview had some some good stuff here you can tell that definitely was expecting some blowback for featuring Tony so prominently the episode. But he was like look. We did what we had to do here. Guys I understand. I know you don't like it when we feature one person too much. But you look at the episode yet. A good quote here that I thought was really insightful into the process he says we always start at the end and work backwards. We start with WHO voted out. Then we identify the player's responsible for the vote out then. We look at the impact. The immunity challenge may have had etc. We continue this process all the way back to the tribes returning to camp from the previous tribal and how the fallout of that vote may impact the next vote. That's our process and so I thought that was interesting that that's that's how they structure the editing of the each episode. That's cool that he talked. He didn't get to see that scene. I think they've been a lot more open about highly structured things in the previous these last two years and Cisco for this talk about it yes. Jeff also says Sophie's one of his favorite winners because of her stealth mode that was interesting and he also had a nice quote. Here that I thought was nice with every passing season. I gain more respect for the play. Those those those who have played. I've learned so much from them about the courage to live a life of on your own terms and not someone else's when someone agrees to play survivor it tells me their yearning for an adventure and they're confident enough in themselves. Take it on with no idea where it will lead and what they will learn about themselves. I really feel like I thought it was great that you can tell how much respect jeff has for these winners that they keep expecting him to mess with them like he's doing a toast at the beginning of the season he's letting them have the family visit. They keep expecting something bad to happen but he was. He really wanted to celebrate these people. Because you really respect them for for making the show. What it is. I love that because it's a two way street like the show wouldn't be words at without Jeff and advice for these players who did so credible under a season now have been entertaining. All of us back here at home so it's a two way street. I love Franchisee respectable players and the players respect people who are in charge it so this was really yes alright. So so then he finally he. He confirmed that he said if Jeremy had left tribal and the previous tribal wouldn't Jeremy was able to leave safety with our Jeremy. Leaving triable would not have nullified. Sarah's deliver if Sarah had played this deal on Jeremy and then Jeremy Left. Jeff said okay. You can no longer played on. Jeremy who do you WanNa play on now so I thought that was an interesting little tidbit there. But that's it for the episode and the extra content lovie. It's time to talk about the legacy. Watch before we wrap this podcast up the legacy wide. We track week to week the legacy of these winners and how it changes based on the tiers they are put in so this is what we have from the previous week where these winters were ranked now. I saw some people in the chat. Say they want me to start at the bottom this time so I'm willing. I'm willing to do that. If if that's where people want me to start we can let me know if if you like this after the fact if you want me to continue to start at the bottom of the list or if you'd rather me start at the top we can do it either way. I don't mind Here's the legacy. Watch we'll start. We'll start at the bottom and at the bottom here. We have the bottom Tier Ben Amber and Danny now. Interestingly amber and Danny have sometimes changed positions and in this particular since for some reason they did Danny has for some reason surpassed amber why in the bottom dear And then we've had Ben. So ben started at the bottom of the bottom tier and by slowly been climbing his way up and he came very close last week he was. He was very close to hitting that Middle Tier. He's he's just he's steps away from it but in this episode he fell back like halfway back like he lost five weeks of progress. Far Back Down far away from the Middle Tier. Something happened here with Ben to make him fall far back down and I have to imagine that. It's something that I talked about before. Which is that something that really dramatically influences this legacy watch from. What I've observed is when players talk about other players and so when we get a scene of Jeremy saying everything Ben Does annoys me. I was like this is going to be bad for Ben and you know what it was. He felt dramatically. I think it's it has to do with this scene. Where Jeremy Talking about being annoyed by Ben? And so I can tell you that Christina who I'm giving all this data to actually has extensive notes about the the confessionals and who they're talking about and whether it's positive or negative so she actually plans to doing analysis based on this and I'm really interested in what she comes up with once we get all this data and but But this this this this one confessional from Jeremy Seemingly really hurt Ben now also there was that scene with the confrontation between Ben and Jeremy as well and I'm sure that didn't help Ben Either but we definitely have noticed that these confessionals really make a difference when when somebody talks either positively or negatively. I think about another player interest quick question. This is just for me the first time I've seen this season. Sorry I wasn't this specifically but is it left to right in order like so. Here's yes screen but is there is the worst of that like left is talking the list and right on the bottom of the list in within the tears within a year so right now banned is a top of the bottom ear as yes. We're seeing. Okay Gotcha more declared by all right so then we head into the Middle Tier and in the Middle Tier last week. We had Adam Wendell and nick at the bottom of the Middle Tier and they were very very close with one. Another this episode. We saw that Adam actually fell a bit and he is now at the bottom of the Middle Tier. Nick and Wendell both had very small increases. But that leaves them both about where they were before. And that means that. It's going to be Adam. Nick and Wendell I really feel like nick continues to be underestimated in the legacy watch so low opposition here in the Middle Tier given the game that he's playing which seems to be pretty good. Although it's hard to to to to say that this is wrong because unfortunately we can't see I think he you know I'm biased. Output would put in much higher than that in this of the game where we're at right now but we have to be able to see it so hopefully it can rise if he keeps continue. Do better you mean underrated player. Speaking of players that have received negative confessionals about them. There was that whole segment about everything. Nick does bothers me. And we're we got that. Oh montage in that. Nick has not done well since army tank and everyone else is doing so after. Wendell is Michelle. Who saw basically no movement here and then after Michelle is still ethan who also saw very little movement and then Natalie still at the top of the Middle Tier. She actually had a big bump this episode finding that that clue getting six tokens notably though from my perspective. This was told to the last two advantages found on extinction Danny and Poverty Natalie and poverty. Both of them were narrated via poverty. Natalie got I believe didn't really have much in the way of confessionals talking about this. It was really narrated all the way through poverty but but Natalie did get a big boost from regardless got it. That's interesting Natalie. Actually Natalie actually very close to cracking the top tier with that boost. I will say okay. I'm not surprised the sixty I'm curious to see if she didn't get those six hawkins from Tony when she would have been as much of a boost so all right so after that we come back up to the top tier and in the top tier. We had denise at the bottom of the top tier and that is where she stays. Now Denise started all the way back before the season started. She was in the Middle Tier and stayed about in the Middle Tier until she dethroned Sandra when she shot way up into the top tier but since then denise has been lying low and consistently episode after episode. She is having moderate drops in her standing in the legacy tier to the point where she is now just barely on the edge of the top tier in extreme danger of falling down into the Middle Tier here for Denise. If she fell she falls next week by the same amount she fell this week. She will be firmly into the Middle Tier in factual. Be Below Natalie. If she falls the same amount next week this week so so she is barely holding on. I will say I think she should not be dropping. She made that incredible movement. He's doing the right thing by laying. Denise has such a big target on her after the move she man she's been able to kind of show back into everything and I wonder too after this vote. We might see denise be off the radar off a lot of people as theirs and she has a lot of moving now. I don't know what movable lines is now so she can kind of weave away. I think we might see it. Rots Yeah and like I feel like people are starting in the game starting to forget. Its she drill. Shank Sandra and if they forget about it long enough and she makes it all the way to the end she can absolutely bring that up and be like. I made that insane move than I lied. Low afterwards. Forgot about it after after denise besides Tae Before Denise we have Sarah still there in the same spot She dropped just us Midge but really just stays about where she is. This was definitely not a great episode for Sarah in terms of what happened in the game but I do think it further confirmed to me. Just how good she is but she is going to stick around here at the bottom. Do you think this is underrated here for Sarah? I think she deserves a higher spot. Personally agree I think I think so outright terror before before Sierra here in the top tier? We have sophie who has fallen from the top of the top tier behind. You'll Jeremy and Tyson. She has fallen that. She is just above Sarah now in the top tier but she is not fallen out of the top tier so fee remains in the top tier and fall bit here though when somebody rises up. Does it have to replace. Him is the lowest the person on the middle of someone. Natalie goes up to the top here with niece fall in the middle tier or now. It's all it's all point based so within the point range gets to be in that tier got it got it. Okay I see yes I mean. I think this is correct. I think so absolutely had a great showing this season and I think most importantly in terms of like where she is ranked proved how good she was in South Pacific that I talked about her game. Prior to the season starting as kind of like Derek lesser and Big Brother Sixteen. Where basically she was in control of the situation that was really good for her and she just kept it there the entire time and didn't really have a reason to deviate from it and so we never saw what happens if something goes wrong for so free because she was able to keep this great spot for herself the entire time and so like. I was very curious to see like. Is she good enough to deal with a game where she has to adapt a little more and things go wrong for her more often? I think we absolutely saw that happen here. She did such a great job in in a season of all winners. She was in a power position. They were all so impressed with her game and she was. I think she came decently close to having a good chance to win this whole thing and I absolutely think she deserves to be in the top tier myself. Yeah no I. I would agree with that. I I always feel like you know when you're voted out. It's tough maybe for but if we look at the way your tears are stacked to. We saw sea that. Tony was the main person orchestrate. This you know he was the legend here. So you're getting somebody from the top of your tears. Try and get out. So I don't think that the diminishes or game at all because if it wasn't for Tony she would be going by bright with a it with a pocket so I think she she desserts. WanNa move this. Here's I think she's stuck there. It's good yes alright. So after Sophie we do have Tyson who obviously experienced a bit of drop last episode for being voted out. He bounced back just slightly people. Kind of went down on him. And then Kinda bounced normalized a little bit so he is now here just above are just below Jeremy who is right above Tyson very close vote between two of them and then above. Jeremy we have you'll at the top of the top tier. None of them moved in any considerable fashion at this point I think I think all of these players are absolutely talked to your players and the sorting between them still. You know whatever. But I've been very impressed with Jeremy. I don't know what will happen with Jeremy with the rest of the season but I love the fact that he's still in here and I'm very impressed with what he's doing. Yeah it's been impressive how you know. His scrambling is worked. I think this episode though. I don't know I think if you think this episode help Jeremy or hurt Jeremy the ranking wise from here I mean ultimately he. He's about the same from where he was before. So I think that I think that you know what we saw was. He had a bad read on Tony but it turned into a good read on. He was in a bad spot that turned into a good spot. But it was Tony's doing his so ultimately I think it can just kind of ended up as a wash. Okay Yeah so. We had into the top tier. There's are the legend Tier and here in the legendary. We have Sandra still here hanging out at the bottom but very very close to came there actually tied here at the bottom of the legend tear. Kim Antonie recent additions to the legendary. Kim started there but fell out. Came back in and so now. She's tied with Sandra at the bottom of the legend here and so Then obviously I think Kim. I think Kim should be cemented in the legendary. This should fall out. I mean she's played a great game as is is she just has such intimidating factor with she's able to you know the see through a lot of BS. And I'm so excited like you said before the see the rest of the season how she's going to be against Tony. I need to get Tony. Out and I just. I can't wait to see it. So yeah no. I think she's for sure all right so then right before Kim in the number three spot is Boston. Rob Who has fallen below? Tony Austin Robin. The number three spot. He actually didn't move down. It's Tony moved up and so there's Boston rob there in the number three spot which leaves the top two Harvey and Tony. But in what order. What order lovie. It's par number one spot for a long time but great episode if there's any episode you're going to rank Tony that top one of the legends here. I think he's got to be this episode. I that's just my opinion but it's going to be close. There's a lot of poverty fans out there. I know for sure but coney just the domestic crafts. So let's not Erin I can tell you it is very close. It is very very closely trumbull. Poverty is going to hold the number one spot just barely. Tony is a number two. I think Tony could have made this happen. In the number one spot had poverty not been involved in the advantage find because par Roy actually saw a seven point bump which was just enough. She was ahead of Tony by three points. So so that bump was just enough to keep her in the number one spot above Tony in this legacy watch so so here it is for now. It's party Tony Boston. Rob Kim Sandra in the legendary tier and there you go tony. I think Has To have cemented his spot at this point. He is very firmly in the legend here here under percent if this is the episode. I think he's GonNa go down in history where people like. If you need somebody to watch an episode. You know this is a good episode to show him. Yes so there it is. There's the Legacy Watch. What an exciting legacy watch this week. I'm so I'm so interested to see where this goes but but there it is over. Thank you so much for joining me tonight. What fun episode to Talk About? This was a blast. Thank you so much charity habit when you ask if I would be doing this one I was like what episode this episode right now is great. I love to talk about. This was super cool. Thanks for having me on. If people know me they know I've been a fan of this man right here. So being is guest is an honor. I Love Tara Rha. Y'All a wonderful job and the fans are great. Here they do offer you also. Yeah can't wait. Have me on anytime you want me to in? I'm excited to watch the rest of your commentary on the rest of the season. I'll thank you so much. Thank you guys for joining us. This week I will. Of course be back next week to talk about whatever happens. It looks like it's Kim vs Tony and I'm pretty pumped about that. So we'll be back. We're going to talk through everything that happens there. We're going to update the Legacy Watch. It's going to be great so make sure you tune in then of course if you never watch these on Youtube makes you you check him out once in a while you can see the legacy watch not physically but visually that might help. If if if you don't see them let me let me tell you I may reader that does not visualize what I'm reading if you are a podcast listener that does not visualize what you're hearing the Youtube video might help you with legacy so That's what we have going on there. Lovie working people find you if they wanted to check. Check you out. Yeah you can find me on twitter at the Oth. B Kabeer Instagram at Lovie Kabeer. Nfl FACE I A- page Just typing Kabeer. You should see my face on there. So there's not many people with my name that looked like me on there. So that's a blessing. This guys. Can they book your face on there. Yeah I mean just that. Kamya happy birthday message. You can't help but I try if you send me a message like if you're going to be needed there's something like that. I just did a proposal for somebody I don't know. Why do you want me to proposal for their own safety? I was honored there. You so much you can find me on. Twitter at Armstrong tyranny can fundamental which twitch dot TV slash tearing Armstrong? I've also gotten into Friday at noon eastern on twitch. I will talk a little bit more about survivor in particular about the edit and. I don't really do epic but But I do just kind of talk about my feelings on the edit and we talk about that a little more if you if you care about that sort of thing you can find which noon eastern on Friday for that and and there we go. That's that's it for this week's thank you once more for joining US lovie. Oh and I always wanted this. So do not subscribe to rub has a podcast smash hit the hope in the mazing group of people here out and gray and you know what if you are. Not a patron of has podcast. Make sure you sign up as a patron rob's doing some great stuff donating some money to The situation going on right now to help relieve that situation so you can check that out. From what rob is doing. Make sure you check out the Patriot on link from the opposite website dot com website thing. And that's all we have for you so thank you thank you again for joining us and we will see you next time to give you deeds to find you everything you need to let Jerry Nannies breakdown yet.

Tony One Tony Nick Tyson Michelle Thais Jeremy Nick Sophie Sarah Michelle Kim Denise Denise Tony Ben Mike Tyson Ben Jeremy US Lovie Lovie Tony Fan Tony Finding extortion Tony Starts Michelle Jeremy Jeremy Back Jeremy Stare Tony Redick
Survivor 40 | Why __ Lost Episode 12 RHAPup with David Bloomberg & Jessica Lewis

Reality TV RHAP-ups: Reality TV Podcasts

1:10:43 hr | 1 year ago

Survivor 40 | Why __ Lost Episode 12 RHAPup with David Bloomberg & Jessica Lewis

"If you WANNA survivor in your feeling down deviating justly gobbled turn it around. They'll break down the rule sandwich. Show you how you've seen yourself and this is why blank Bob Lang. Welcome to this week's edition of why blink loss I'm due to Bloomberg and currently hiding in my spy couch funds. Now I guess I met the water well by your count going on. That's what makes for good smile couch. I definitely couldn't see you. WanNa to your finance in your Calix. Sarah knew that there was a spy. Ns there. I know I didn't know was happening. You start down. I'm like what you see. Ladies and gentlemen this is not rehearse this even remember doing things so yes by the way. Yeah and obviously this is my co host Jessica Lewis. Just sitting there in full view of everybody. I know I was like what is happening. There is no explanation but now I understand. That was yes. And yes and Happy Jessica. Lewis Day everybody. The survivor history. Twitter Account has dedicated today to Jessica very much survive in history. I appreciate it. I was quite surprised to see that. But it's always there speier remembered so thanks so so neither of us were right in our predictions. Get US your sign again. I now I was really really hoping because I was watching episode and I'm like Damn I might get these my sign again and then all hell broke person. Yeah yeah as a matter of fact. Speaking of all hell breaking loose after the episode aired. Like right after I tweeted that I thought the result was probably the same as it was coming into tribal council but after my rewatch I was reconsidering the idea. And then terron mentioned in his podcast that Nick said on a now deleted twitch stream. Nick and these twits streams That ben indeed change his vote at tribal council causing nick to change his vote to avoid rocks. Yes I did hear about that as well. Okay interesting note there. Yeah so you heard about the foot stream or some other way stream. Yes and I had wondered after my rewatch. Why Nick Switch? Since the last thing we saw was him saying he wasn't going to so this explains that outcome. And you know. Apparently we did have that. Very rare instance. Survivor wants us to believe happens all the time. But the very rare instance of a truly live tribal council with the vote. Actually changing with a whole lot of issues. We're going to have to discuss. And how they got there but we will get there. Yeah Yeah and so yeah now. We have a better idea of what happened as much as we can. We need to figure out why it happened to do that. Of course we'll follow our usual path of comparing Kim's game to rules. I originally wrote way back after season. One and had been modifying. Ever since looking at all the non spoiler information available to us from what we saw on. Tv CBS all access social media plus a special look back at some old articles from my website. Dating back to when Kim I played go late. The latest version of the rules is available at rob has website dot com slash blog slash survivor rules for anyone who hasn't caught up yet or you can get the shorter and much more colorful version of the rules in poster form at tiny euro dot com slash. David rules poster to fact Him is right there. Star of rule three on the poster. So you know. We'll we'll have to see how she did. In that rule this season now we had previously announced that Justice Rob is donating to direct relief an organization that provides protective equipment for doctors and nurses we are donating the proceeds for every poster. We sold in April two that same charity rob decided to extended week so we went along with him. We decide to extend that another week. So hurry up and get yours. No more dilly-dallying. People I think your announcement spurred at least three more purchases so given that David because it really did Yes so now is the time again. That's tiny auriol dot com slash David rules poster to. Yes and I'm the star rule six or seven at the seven less fortunate star. I very very less more. Yeah Ninety Eight. People were very aware of the rocks. This episodes yes that's true. Nine addition to the poster. We've mentioned there's another way to get the rule so you can always have them with you and that. Is he shirt form so there we are. You know there's Well I can't see because I'm on the other side rule three is over there so thank you. Were literally good So go to go to the ROB has website dot com or rob has a PODCAST DOT COM store to get there. You Click the merchant link near the top US stores so new items are first shirts. Be Right there This is a men's and we have both men's and women's t shirts available we've started to see some of these on twitter and they look incredible people so if you WANNA look. Incredible bio sure exactly are they. Yes now before we get to the rules. We also wanted to make a different announcement will once again. Be Having A post-season Cuny podcast about a week. After our finale podcasts. So everyone start thinking about what questions you want to ask and feel free to shoot them to us and if you do it on twitter we'll try to remember not to answer it right. Then actually wait until until the podcast you can also diem awesome. What else they want to. They don't WanNa post directly on twitter. You can do it that way. That's true that's true. We do have other couple topics to discuss before focusing on Kim I. This is more just amusing more than anything beginning of the episode. Sarah told us she knew she couldn't get to pest and then she exploded so if that is Sarah not being pissed. I don't WanNa see Sarah when she is pissed. I Know Sarah Scary. When she's angry and but also very poignant and very clear in her words and hurt and how she expresses herself. There was no question at all at. Tony screwed up roiling her mind and that. Tony needed to make it up to her. In every which way possible in order to get her good graces again and clearly. That's exactly what he spent a whole time. Do it right now. Speaking of people being upset this question has come up with something of a mystery. Why is Ben So mad at Jeremy? Wright doesn't make any sense yeah I I think it goes back to what we have so often see happened. The vilification of the park. So you you want someone to go so badly that your brain starts to make up reasons. You get mad at them. Yeah I think it's like the brain protecting itself. You don't want to vote out good people so you convince yourself. They're a bad person. I have good reason to get rid of them. You know some people can just play the game and say well. I'm getting rid of that person. But I think the brain just wants to make that person the enemy you know. And that's an interesting point. Because I do think that in Ben's season he was the one that was being vilified so we find him on a completely different arena now where he is not the one. That's being vilified if anything he's doing everything he can to try to avoid being a villain and he sharing too much information and he's really trying to ingratiate himself with equal except someone like Jeremy which it would be to his benefit really to ingratiate himself with someone like Jeremy the help further along his own game but I do think it's interesting that he it's like he's trying to find a reason to target Jeremy is. Jeremy is just that nice guy that everybody really likes. And so in BEN'S MIND. He has kind of flipped the script on how he perceives. Jeremy as opposed to everybody else perceives. Jeremy Yeah and just like people got mad at Ben for surviving in his season You're Jeremy Apparently pissing Ben off by surviving. So it's interesting very interesting but also very odd. I can't imagine I mean I know. In my season there was there was a lot of tension between some of us in your really chatting air much but at the same time to just there wasn't such a. I'm not speaking to you kind of like that. Element kind of went away. It was there for a moment and then we just kind of tolerated each other and we still spoke socially round fire eating. There wasn't just this. I'm putting up a wall. I'm not going to speak to you response. Which I think is pretty shocking in a game like this to just completely shut somebody down and not even listen to what they say. Oh I think that's a really really incredible. Yeah so all right well enough. Talking about angry people we could move onto the rules in his weekly online summary. Jeff drope said when you're playing against all winners you don't have to make a mistake to get voted out. Was Kim completely mistake free? Like he suggested she did. Step down the challenge for food. So did she lose because peanut butter and cookies or is there more to it than that. It's time to figure out why Kim lost the first and most important rule talks about the scheme and plot and we know Kim understood this quite well from her first time playing when she controlled virtually everything as Dalton. Ross put it in his entertainment. Weekly recap in that game. All roads lead this Kim Spradlin and she was at the center of everything happening. Both socially and strategically this time though Kim start out on the bottom as a target. Because you'll wanted to go after the poker alliance. She quickly realized that she was a possible target because nobody would talk to her. But that didn't stop her from trying. Indeed both she and amber were left out but we saw a whole montage of Kim trying to talk to people. We didn't see that from Ambra and from what you will said in his strategy tweet at the time before. He was bowled not to do that anymore. Her persistence paid off because he ended up locking to Kim and getting her on board for Potential Future Votes. And that was an interesting thing to watch actually happen at the vote where there was kind of a reaffirming shoulder tap or something from you will to him like we got you in a year. Okay and I do think that she learned very quickly that she was going to have to be working a little bit harder with this group but that yes she at least stepped up and was trying to get involved in the strategy. Talk and was was not getting much I mean. She acknowledged that the people aren't talking to me and I'm walking into conversations and she struggled with it. I mean. She was very upset that she'd never felt that way in her season. So this was a whole different game for him to be playing where she wasn't playing with people that she could control. She had to start playing with people who were controlling things around her and I think that caused a struggle for her very early on but she did really try to step up and deal with it instead of just letting things happen around her. Yeah and she apparently did a pretty good job convincing the others on her original try but she was with them because they focused on getting rid of Tyson. A united front at the SLOP. Of course Kim immediately fled her group because she knew she was still on the bottom and if they had lost one more challenge she would have been the one booed. It's much different type of strategy that you have to employ when you know your position in the tribe is not at the top. It's not even in the middle. It's definitely at the bottom. It certainly changes the dynamics and and how you approach people and there is more of a willingness to go along with one other people are suggesting because you know you don't have the power and control like she always had in one world. I mean not control any entire thing in one world. Yeah and this time. She had to fight from the bottom continually in last week's episode. She pulled together. Tyson Jeremy telling them lots of conversations were going on and they weren't a part of them and I'm sorry that would have been two weeks ago. Obviously Tyson wasn't there you know and none of them had any friends out there you. She just kept fighting and trying to get something strategic pulled together but it never worked well and I do have to give her a lot of props or her desire to do that. Because that in this season we've seen as soon as you put somebody else there. If you start trying to strategize against someone suddenly then you become target which is exactly what transpired in this episode. So the fact that she was still willing to step up knowing this is going to potentially put a target on my back but she knew that the numbers were necessity. You've got eight people going into a vote. You need to have five in order to avoid going to rocks and who knows where the idols our. Because obviously they now. Sophie's idol is back in play and Sophie announced that she went out on idol in our pocket. So there's all of these other things that you have to be. Mindful of and at least Kim was trying to work through those scenarios in her head and unfortunately had to bring in someone like Ben and talked to him in order to try to get the numbers. And that's really what I think started that ball. I'm in the wrong direction for him. Yeah I mean you've you've person perfectly segued us into the second rule because one aspect of her going fight was that eventually it was bound to be noticed and the second rule says scheming plot too much to keep your scheming secret and like you mentioned at the beginning of the episode. Kim said it was obvious the Jeremy was going next. But Tony and Sarah problem. She said she had a relationship with Sarah. Sir Tony was the one who had to go and it brings up the question of why not. Just stay with the group you know thinking. Jeremy should be next. He's a threat to just ask Ben. I said before naming names before the immunity challenge is dangerous and this is a perfect example of Wise Amerifactors. Such a perfect example. I'll probably add to the rules. The she named Tony. He won immunity so he couldn't be the target and then people told him what she had been trying to do. She said it was the riskiest move. She's ever had to make but she felt she had to do something to turn her situation around. My thing is she didn't need to do something like that to Turner situation around at this specific point in the game because she was safe for now but once Ben told Tony that Kim was the one pushing his name. She became Tony's prime target. Yes I think that. We learned a lot from Tony's last episode or might even before that when he managed to pull together the votes but he did it right before tribal council was happening like there was a place everybody knew what they were doing and then immediately before he switched it up because he knows that in this game time is not on your side with certain things and when you go to tribal council you only have so much time. If we get there the more people can think and spend things in the brain the more that they can try to talk themselves out of it or they can try to change things so you can't give people a whole lot of time to necessarily process which is exactly what candidate here. She gave way too much time to go back and scheme plot in Kabul other ideas. You Know Ben. Being that person who went to Tony. And then nick terribly line to Tony about it. You know so but it's one of those things that was terrible. Yeah Yeah maybe she did say that. Yeah Yeah you and that's the thing I mean it's hard. I the first time I ever lied up there. I felt horrible. I was like visit an awful feeling. When you're like you are actually lying to someone's face so yeah it's not easy to do but that's why if you give people too much time to think about stuff and to run around. Tony wouldn't have had that time to run around and find out what was transpiring if it hadn't even been done because like you said. He want immunity so if he wins immunity. She's Never Tony's name and that's to me. It's very strange. That whole the whole thing is weird and I. I don't know at what point we really. WanNa talk about the immunity challenge but if you know the target is Tony Nick. Why are you giving up? We'll talk about that in later but but I do think that it's it's one of the situations where I've gone into immunity challenges knowing who the target is for that evening and I'm not saying that you shouldn't have a target because it does. It is kind of a sigh of relief when that person goes out of the challenge. And you're like okay. That person is is now no longer immune so our plans that we kind of set place but it's a different. It's a different time. I think in survivor. And especially with this group knowing how the votes are shifting and how people are moving so quickly and that there are potentially live tribals that you really need to kind of keep your scheming and plotting close to the vest and only with those people that you know. We're not going to throw you under the bus because we've seen it happen time and time again as soon as you mentioned someone's name than it spins and it's right back at you so. I do think that Kim. It wasn't a bad idea for her to try. The timing of it was completely wrong. I mean in your situation that you're talking about you. Were already in a core alliance situation in this group. Things are flipping back and forth. People are moving. You know. You can't expect if you're in a core alliance talking to you know two three four people who you trust and have worked together throughout game or at least throughout the last few out thing to say okay. This is our next target but if some people are jumping back and forth you can't just gather five random people together expect everybody's going to be on the same page for the next three days or whatever since you were left out of the last we'll craziness that went down so clearly. These people are not working with you. I haven't really seen she and Ben work together really at all this entire season. And so you really are relying on someone who I think. It's clearly We're seeing that. Ben has a stronger relationship with someone like Tony. And you're you're going to that person and saying. Hey Tony's our target. It's not a bad discussion to at least have like. Hey what are we thinking about doing? You know how do we see things unfolding to kind of see where people are at? But she was literally going to every single person and telling. This is what we have to do because we're running out of time but again yes it needs to happen if you're going to make it happen but when you're relying on people that you don't have that close on with who have close bonds with evil over here. It's that is a very very slippery slope. And unfortunately she she put herself in a really bad predicament that she wasn't in at the start VIPs O'Donnell players should of course always looking for ways to put themselves in a better position and Kim recognized how dangerous the cops are us. Duo is but she said herself and tribal council. That everyday is a clean slate. Person on the bottom of one day can be calling the shots. The next she should have listened to our own advice and waited another day then she could talk about targeting Tony when Tony didn't have immunity after Ben's prime target. Jeremy is gone. Maybe ben is more of a free agent. Then don't give everyone time and opportunity to spill the beans. Yes and also. I don't know if we want to reference at here but this whole idea of Jess Jeremy was the original target and she was thinking that Tony and Sarah were a duo and they needed to be split them so her returning back to that Jeremy Vote. I think was interesting because if you are concerned as Tony and Sarah and now you're like well let's just go back to Jeremy then and that to me was also a misread by him as well because she was allowing that duo to continue. She wasn't doing anything to potentially stop that duo from progressing taking the other half right right exactly now. We're going to take a quick break for our sponsors and we'll be right back we're back so let's get back to the show all right So we can move onto the third rule which talks about being flexible as I mentioned earlier. You and Erik Reichenbach selected Kim as the example for this rule in our poster because of the flexibility. She showed her first season. How do you think she did this time? I don't think she was able to lay the flexibility away that she did previously because she had a lot more avenues in one world because she was the one calling the shots so she's in charge of this group of five and and she's the one who's able to manipulate the direction of the vote because she is literally Tony Her season. If we want to say that like me now I don't remember a Kim spy ship. That's how in control cameras in her season. She knew everything that was going on. Everybody we know what they were doing how they were playing the game they were targeting and in the thing that was interesting about one world is how visible it was everyone that the this this group of five was controlling things that was really making the decisions but nobody can infiltrate skinless so good at manipulating. Everybody Nice Fortunately Kim finds herself situation where it's almost like. She's being forced to be flexible in a way that she never wanted to be flexible. You know she has to be willing to flip and okay. I wanted to work with amber. Like she was really interested in an amber kind of being her rider. Die And now she's got voted out because it's either she tyson or amber and so she had to say all right while I'm GONNA cut my losses on an amber but I so. I think that she was trying to be flexible. But from a position of the atom in trying to determine what's the next best route like we saw her last week flip over to the other side and she even said I don't want to do this. But what other choice do I have? I have got to be on the numbers. And so she flipping and going to the other side and so she was possible but just from a much different perspective. Yeah you might as well have been reading law of my notes. It's like you said two weeks ago. She pulled in Jeremy to form a new alliance last week. She went against Jeremy at in all cases plans were foiled but she was willing to work with any woman. I mean maybe this weaker tempted alliance. It would include to wider variety of people. But she just kept trying you know. She was super flexible. Because for a different reason than last time. You said all right well. The fourth players not to let their emotions control them. Historically this has not been an issue for him in fact there was a secret seen in her original season. Where my writer who was covering secret scenes for reality news online a said she was quote coming off more and more like a female. Brian Heidrick And that was because she was calm. Cool and calculating at the time her ally Chelsea was struggling emotionally about eliminating. The men and Kim told us she knew exactly how Chelsea felt. She felt the same way but she couldn't let her conscience interfere because quote. This is the game. I'm here to play for a million dollars. I'm sure she brought that same attitude into this season. And as we talked about in the Third World we saw her jump back and forth as necessary so she wasn't getting emotionally tied into who she was playing. Yeah and I think a lot of people are really doing very well with this this season. Where they they`re. They're understanding when they need to cut their losses and she has clearly been doing that because of the position that she's been put in as well she's been planning from the bottom so she can't play emotionally because again. I do think that when you were playing that position you'll lose the ability to respond the way they want to. Because you have to kind of see where the tide is taking you and unfortunately you might really like someone or have a close bond of them. WanNa play the game with them. But you have to understand. It's time to just cut. The Fat Trim. The fat I need to focus on myself. And if that's who everybody wants to go then okay and and that's what we saw happen with Jeremy Week. She was like okay. I'm just GonNa go along with with where the majority is even on. It might not be what she wanted to do for her own game. She understood that it got her one step further in the game but I do think she's at a point now where she realized that whole resume thing is looming. And you gotTa have some type of resume and you have to start making moves. She was just in a tough spot to really allow an emotional component commander voting as opposed to trying to save herself and heap or solving the game. Yeah now one thing going back to what you said you know. In the second rule I think it was talking about you know if if maybe it was the third wall. I don't remember Atari about if one member of the duo is safe. And maybe you go after the other member I. It's possible I should have added the word mostly when I mentioned. She wasn't getting emotionally tied to anyone. Because you have a question here If Kim was so set on splitting those two up like you said she could've pushed to switch the vote to Sarah. Wants Tony One immunity. I mean Sarah herself even thought she was endanger tribal council. But Kim didn't because she said she has a relationship with Sarah. That's a good point The question is was it an emotional slash friendship relationship or a strategic relationship. I don't know the answer. But if you're targeting a duo in part because they're do and one of the do a wins immunity. You should go after the other part. Kim Didn't and it makes me wonder if this one time her emotions did get in the way just enough to cause a problem. It is interesting because there wasn't a secret scene between the two of them where they really seem to have a moment and I don't know if Kim walked away from that thinking that she had a connection now with Sarah that went beyond just playing the game but I think also part of Kim had a desire to play the game with Sarah. I don't remember exactly how she phrased it but it was. It was kind of like rebuilding the relationship with her or something of that. Nature am curious if maybe she thought she could play the game with Sarah and that that would benefit her. But at this point there's only seven people. There's only so much time left in the game. I don't know of now's the time to really try to be doing that. You should be looking at someone like denise who you've been playing a game with you've got this relationship established with as opposed to now here where seven people after. I want to try to or eight people at the time. Try to rebuild this bond with her so I do wonder if there was some type of emotional poll there that caused her to shift back. Jeremy as opposed to Sarah Mean Jeremy like you said at the beginning. He's someone you don't WanNa be sitting next to at the end either. So you know the idea of voting. Jeremy wouldn't have been a bad thing for Kim so I don't know why shifting back to Jeremy as opposed to Sarah would have been beneficial to her just because Sara is just as much I think it hindrance to her game if she sitting next to her at the end as well right. Yeah all right. The fifth rule is all about social game and reminds players. They need to pretend to be nice. I don't think anyone can really doubt that Kim doing well here. What do you think Kim is just the sweetest person I mean in? The thing that I appreciate about him is that she does have an ability to talk with people and I think this was a different Kim. We saw this week where she was talking more at them kind of telling him. This is what we have to do. She's always been very good at it just having conversations about prospect and possibilities in how we WANNA see the game move forward without necessarily acting as if she's in control even though she was in control and when it was her her social social game is what us her to win one world. So now it's a. It's a different version of him so she still very good socially but again what I suppose. She's playing from different possession. So you can be as Nice as you want to these people but if they don't want to play with you for whatever reason they just don't WanNa play with you and and I think that can was someone who they were probably fearful of because of her social promise and her ability to communicate so well with people so she's been kind of I think like left off kilter like this full season because it's a different environment where she's having to play and then she was before. Yeah yeah she seemed to have good social relationships with almost everybody maybe excluding Tony who? She didn't seem to be as close to. I don't know but she friend befriended just about everyone. Indeed Sophie told US early in the season that Kim was the most socially adept person out there. And she's the nicest person now impart this leads us to the sixth rule which warns against being too much of a threat because the rest of that quote from Sophie that I just mentioned talked about how everybody knew that Kim being socially adept was how she won. Like you said and everybody would see that as threatening that that opinion was shared by others and continued through the game as we saw Sarah Pushing Tony to get him out a couple of weeks ago because she had everybody in her back pocket and I did think it's interesting that you know one of the things that were faulting here for her desire to try to altogether five people but that is also part of what Kim is so good at and so perhaps that why. That's why I thought that Kim thought that she could pull this off. But I do think that you're so far into the game that even though she had people in her back pocket. She just didn't have the right people on her back pocket. You know she did have some that were you know. She's got denise and and that is a tight rope there Jeremy and Tyson so she did have people that she really was connected to the other ones are a little more surface and unfortunately it just didn't carry into the Kim that we saw previously cs but she's great at it and she someone who could sit at the end and certainly you know communicate very well and talk to each individual person about those relationships that she created but unfortunately there was a couple. That just didn't get as much attention and those are the people that she really needed this week. In order to pull off this move well engineered to not have brought up Tony's name before to those people before the challenge because yeah that's another thing but coming into the season. I said in our preview podcast. Although Kim only played once she did such a good job that I figured she'd still be considered a fairly big threat. And that didn't help podcasts. And articles have talked about how good she was. She said pregame that she thought others would be bigger threats but then we heard from some of the other players that they did indeed worry about her. I figured she would make the merge but not near the end because people would worry too much about her and that is part of what happened. Yeah I mean. I don't think that there's very many survivor winners. Who have a reputation like she does of really owning their entire season? I mean that's what Kim is known for and so coming into a group of forty play of all winners season forty. Where a lot of these people. They never played the perfect game. If you think about it I mean it took some people multiple times to win so you know someone like. Tyson came back three times where he won and for Cam. She went in there and killed it once and she literally owned her season. So I do think that another survivor player. Seeing that is going to definitely be threatened by that because if she comes in she can pull it off with a group of winners I I mean that would have been a huge feat for her so yeah I mean she already came in at a threat level of English different than most because nobody saw her play an imperfect game whereas some of these returning players. We've seen imperfection we've seen that do so well and her. No one had ever seen that right now. Of course we can't leave this role without noting that beyond just being general threat to everybody. Kim made herself a direct threat to Tony with her plan. As we discussed in the second world just like Tony saw sophie as a direct threat him last week and how he felt. Tyson was the week before Starting to see a pattern. Yeah for sure and I do think that that's interesting. That in this particular vote. I her mentioning Tyson. And this is what. I was kind of struggling with looking at everyone's decision in how they ended up voting and and they're agreeing with Tyson or exile agreeing with Tony to vote out wasn't benefiting anyone really except Tony and maybe Sarah. So it's it's one of those interesting votes to see come together because how how is voting out can going to necessarily benefit anybody else getting further in the game when you still have the Tony and Sarah sitting there. You still have Jeremy said in there and now you've got rid of Kim someone who is actually voting with you working like Mitt. You know like I don't know how that was going to benefit neck. Like our suddenly going to flip in and vote him as opposed to what we are going to be doing previously. So I do think that you know. There's there's some issues there. Because yes she mentioned Tony's name. Tony wants her. Gone the only person that that's directly threatening to is Tony. Tony Gone Well. Yeah but he keeps winning all of a sudden the seventh recovers idols advantages and although we talked about it when it happened we need to once again address. Kim Wasting her idol which would have come in awfully handy when she realized she might be the target as we mentioned when it first happened a couple of weeks ago there was literally no reason for him to play the idol on denise and that situation because the numbers just didn't add up she either should have played it on herself which would have been totally understandable and the chaos or held onto. Yes hersher and it's unfortunate because that was one of those situations where I mean. She tried to read room since he's really good at it and try to figure out where the votes were were put but because of the split vote. It really didn't benefit hurry. It didn't matter so yeah. It would have been great. She still had her back pocket and GonNa play this week. Cher. Yeah now before Kim could use the idol. She had to find it and we've already discussed both Kim's strategic and Social Game. But now that we're in this rule we have something. Kim Did that highlighted both when she found the two part idle and gave half to Sophie at the time very early in the game. Sophie told us that Kim should be telling Tyson about the idol. Not Hurt as she put. Kim was telling bedevil who had never worked with her. But I think that was the whole point as an olive branch to tell Sophie. She wanted to work with her in a slightly Less blunt way that you will did you know. Unfortunately we didn't see much of the resolution of that specific situation and the two ended up on opposite sides at the end. But at the time I think it was a fairly smart move on her part to try to get closer to Sophie when when she was on the bottom. When Kim was on the bottom and also pre-game she even talked about wanting to play with Sophie. She thought Sophie was kind of another version of herself. And so I think that that was part of that decision as well. This woman she had already kind of determined. I'd like to play the game with and she had an opportunity to play there and still thought. I WANNA play the game so great way to try to as you said. Extend that all the branch to really let somebody in on your trust circle if you will and say hey I wanNA play with you. I mean Soviet thought it was ridiculous. She was like why you know. But but that was sophie's read on it but I don't. It was a bad play for him at all your seat. All right. We've one of to discuss and while it's not an idler advantage per se. It's a game mechanic so it fits best in this rural much like you pointed out the I'm talking of course about stepping down from the immunity challenge peanut butter cookies. After the episode Kim posted a picture of the amount of food and tweeted for my calculations. Approximately two million dollars of the thing is there's no way to know for sure but I suspect and suspected at the time that the three who got out for food were close to falling anyway and they have at least claimed as much she said she was right on the edge she could feel the bucket starting tip whatever but was it a good move to give immunity for that. No I agree I agree. I'm sorry it's and listen I will. I will go on a little bit of a soapbox after this minute because I did tweet about this. Are you holding your hand up? I did that for like an hour and forty two minutes ahead. Both of my wrists tied up there on a little bit different. But I did tweet about that as well but that was not. I would never do that. Two million dollars not giving up immunity for cookies and chocolate ever and someone was like. Hey people who live in glass. Houses shouldn't are white rocks. Because you put your hand in the bag but totally different. That is totally different. It's totally ever said that to you on twitter. I'm telling you that is illegal totally different. Because here's a situation where it's about. You're not finding yourself at a crossroads line in the sand it's a tie nobody's Levin and you know that whatever decision you make in that moment will affect the end game and that was where we all wear. We knew like if you flip your toast like it's not especially in my situation but when you're trying to win a nudity. That's what you're trying to do. You're trying to immunity and you're not trying to find some mechanism in which to Elongate your game. If your game is going to end that night you know like the idea of eating food is supposed to give you strength and I know that people are hungry. I get it. I mean I was hungry. When is out there too but you really have to kind go through all the permutations if everybody walked into that particular tribal knowing. Tony was the target. At least five people walked in nine. Twenty was the target. That's your goal now granted. It was split. Now you know women men you know what I mean so the so baby. That was part of her stopping herself for not stopping herself because she knew that she couldn't affect Tony. Winning with interesting I definitely interesting. Twist but it kind of just set into motion. She did it then. It makes it okay. Somebody else wants to do it. And then nick dropped out too but I. It's just not worth the risk. It's not worth the risk because you have especially for Kim. She's the one through counties name out there so she's the one if it's GonNa come back and there's going to be any ramifications it will be for it's Kim and now you're stepping down peanut butter and chocolate it. Just it's not worth it. It's just not worth taking that risk at all. Yeah now you're all. This is that in Kim's original season in an episode that aired about nine years in two weeks ago J. Dropped out of the same challenge for Food and Kim. Organiz the vote to get rid of him now. Kim herself step down that time to that time. She got cupcakes but her position in the game win then was much different than it. Was this time yes now as for Jim J. He thought he was safe when he did it. But Kim should've known better this time. It is interesting to recall that Jay said in his day after video. See We dig deep here folks in Jay's day after video he said that everyone judges and says you're a fool when you step down for the way he sought though if you think you're safe that's key if you think you're safe it's extremely important step down and take the food. That's what will get you through the next few days. Jay also pointed out at the viewing audience doesn't know how many alliances you've made and what's going on strategically in the game. He stepped down because the person he thought was going home was already out so she wasn't going to win immunity. He trusted his alliance. Now that's all well and good but in Kim situation. Tony wasn't out yet again. That didn't matter so her participation literally you know didn't impact him at all I'm sure that she similarly fought. She had alliances to keep her safe but she'd been on the bottom for the whole game. She should've known the way. Things were shifting here. It was it any. She had done it to J. J. thought he was safe. She should not have even thought was safe. And this is someone who two weeks prior or three weeks prior is telling other individuals Jeremy and Tyson. We don't have any friends in this game like we are on the bottom. They want us how we do not have any friends and she was not in a situation where she knew. She's got this core alliance people she can rely on in. That moment emigrated and I understand you. She thought she was GONNA fall. Okay if you think you're fall to stand there until you fall and that's that's that's kind of the approach that I would have taken that approach I did take. I don't know I just feel like it's one of those things that you would rather not regret that decision and I think that that was kind of what she'll be struggling with. Is that jeeze? If maybe if I had stayed up there maybe I would have one and then I would. I wouldn't be. We would tighten her right now because she wouldn't have sat down so it is. It's it's just not worth it gets and it's not worth having to relive that moment it because it's it's a different part of the game. Decisions are not yet carbon stone. People have not necessarily made a decision about who they are because obviously they wanted to Tony. Tony now has immunity. So things have to shift and change so immunity directly affects. Who's GonNa end up going home for sure? And also it takes a lot of her power away because two reasons if you wear the immunity necklace if people have more of a willingness and desire to WanNa talk to you about the vote his. I know you can't be voted out. So you have a little more power and control as to where the vote is going to end up but then also as you mentioned it gives people this idea in their head that will. They think that they're comfortable. They're appearing comfortable. Maybe they don't realize this. They shouldn't feel as comfortable as they do. And so it it makes people look at you. I think in a different light. It frustrates people that you're choosing to eat as opposed to struggling through immune challenge. So it's just there's a whole lot of factors there can negatively affect your game instead of positivity helping move forward. Yeah now now as final piece of flashback I looked at the recap I had written for the episode when Jay was voted out which was one of the last articles we posted on Reality News online before I had to shut down nine years ago In the article I mentioned that after the challenge. Jay talked to Kim who assured him that he had nothing crazy to worry about. Kim should certainly of known that this season she had everything crazy to worry about all the time. Well they all did and that's what I found it fascinating that they kind of went domino's especially nick knowing that he was the only thing between the immunity necklace. Tween Tony Getting it. And or Nick. Getting and the fact that nick and again if he thought he was going to fall but he was also negotiating for. Tokens to calm down. You know so so I do think that something right there. You know that there wasn't a realization. That was really down to those two. And that was a a nick would have stopped. Tony winning immunity and again. Maybe we'd be much different discussion. But so many facets of immunity challenge and who wins it and how the vote will end up being directed because of who wins that throwing it away for chocolate and peanut butter. I just don't think it's it's everywhere. If ever weren't the risk for whoever it is now all right we can move onto appendix which is about the rest of the tribe keeping their end goals in mind when voting and of course we talked about the players putting out the weak and the strong than the weak and the strong as I've been saying there are very many players who could be seen as weaker though Tony has of course split them up his mind. You know. In that way. Lions Hyenas bottom feeders whenever he wants to So but I do feel like the strong have still continued to be targets. Jeremy Tony Kim. All of them fit the bill but with Tony Immune. Either of the other two were people who need to go Tony. Sarah and Jeremy Certainly did the right thing to go after Kim but everybody else was going to go after Jeremy so the question is did ben make the right decision. Especially since Ben Flipping was what caused dicta flip from what we discussed at the top? The podcast I'm going to say probably because he stays on Tony's good side while still having the opportunity to turn on Tony when the time is right in the nick ends up in that similar position. Tony knows he still wants Jeremy out so I think he probably made the right move rather than turning on Jeremy and I mean what does he have at that point Ben. He's an outlier in that other group and he doesn't have Tony and Sarah Anymore. Well and that's that is true but I also feel like this is a vote and I mentioned before that really only benefits Tony. Because she's putting Tony's name out there who are so. Tony does want her to stay around. Because she's targeting him and I it's one of those situations where if that person Benzon being targeted Benz not hymns not targeting. Ben Jeremy and Ben have this weird thing but Jeremy clearly wants to work with Ben and I just. It's just seems like an odd mix when you were down to now. Now you've got seven. People left at eight at the time. You have three people and maybe even four. Kim was part of that group with the niece and Nick and Michelle who were talking about final four three so you have a a group of players who are little more aghast. Even as as far as they're thinking about them as coming into the game I guess I should say it that way that they they seem to be a little more on an even playing field coming into the game. I'm not necessarily talking about how they've played this season. But so they're looking at it. Who Do we want to sit next to at the end nick was talking about this and the people that he doesn't. WanNa sit next to at the end or Jeremy. Tony and Sarah and those are the three people that you've said allowed you do not want to be sitting at the end with so then you end up going after Kim because it's going to benefit Tony and so that's where I think. There's a real big disconnect because you there's only so much time left in this game there's only so many more moves where you can actually get out the Jeremy Coney or Sarah and you're running out of time to do it so it's to me. I feel like it was a missed opportunity because really who cares about Tony at this point me. Yes I love Tony. I think he's phenomenal. But if you are playing a game against Tony you have to be looking at. How much time do I have left? How many opportunities to do things? Do I really care at this point. If I have Tony in my back pocket or not or do I really need to take out threats and I think this is a time you really have to say. I just need to take out threats and say to Tony Tony. Sorry but he had to go and that's just the way it is because looking at. Who's leftover here not as threatening as WHO's leftover here and now Benson a situation where Jeremy and Sarah are still there so I just don't think it's his benefit. Yeah I mean I still think Kim was a big threat to. Nobody would want to sit next to Kim at the end either. Well I don't count that sound that and do you think that there's a different. It's different playing field for sure. It is but Kim also has niece Michelle. You know that group. I don't know that Kim or I'm sorry that nick or Ben. Especially Ben was going to be able to break into that group. I wanted to use him for this vote but I think you mentioned earlier. I don't know that she's worked with Ben the whole time. I don't think she you know she wasn't going to take him to final three So ben gains nothing by siding with her right now. He has a chance. Sure but I still feel like you. Just I don't know I just feel I mean I think to with this type of season you know that people are going to be looking for resumes. They're going to be looking for the move. That people made a lot of what him would have to be. Focusing on is a struggle. I mean she was trying to play from the bottle and then people can say the same thing about Jeremy There's been a lot of struggle. He's been the target. What big flashy moves do they have? And there's very few people right now. That have those big flashy moves. I mean denise has won. I mean she's got a huge move and no is focusing on that. So ben needs to start looking at. How does he built his own resume? And if he's able to say look. I decided to take Jeremy Up. Tony wanted to save him. And I'm the one that took him out. Because I told Tony. No then you've got two picks on your resume you took the power away from Tony. And you've got rid of Jeremy someone who everyone has been targeting so there's a spin sitting in the final three even if you're sitting next. Cam like look. I actually saved him because they wanted to vote her out. I saved her by not letting and sent Jeremy Home so I do think that there is a really great argument to be made by someone like Ben or someone like Nick Is. They are sending the file three with how that vote took power away from Tony Right now. Everything that's happening is just feeding into Tony's power. Everything and Ben is going to be seen as feeding into you. Tony Nick is going to be the same you know. So it's I just feel like they really need to start cutting that now sooner rather than later. Well I think I mean if I had to guess. I think that is their plan. You know it's feeding into Tony Now. But he has immunity now right so the minute. He doesn't not to get into our predictions here a little early but the minute he doesn't Nick and Ben can get back together with whoever else. Get Rid of Tony then for sure. I'm not so I think that's their plan. Knock out the other people until Tony becomes available and then go after Tony. Yeah I just that jury loves Tony and they loved her so much and unless an and I I don't know I I do feel like there's been a lot of there is obviously a lot of focus on phony phony plane incredible game and that it's not to discount the games that other people are playing but everything that the jury is seeing is really. It's happening and tribal council right and it's the Tony Show. And unfortunately other people are not getting the credit that they necessarily deserve for the Games. They're playing because the jury's not seeing what's happening on the island so if you want to do something to make the jury notice you it's it has to be in tribal council and that's the type of thing that he could have. What in front of a jury and tribal council because right now. Tony is being seen as running the whole show and you know even someone like Sarah who decided in tribal council to not have Tony Plane. I O for her got discounted in wasn't as knows it. That was a huge thing for having. Wow for her to stay standing on now. No plant for me because she read the situation. That's incredibly impressive. But that's not what the jury took away from it even with that was in front of the jury because everything is kind of overshadowed by Tony Right now and I know he can't focus on him but somebody has to do something to try to start taking that power way diminishing power in front of the jury voting them out. Where do that -solutely don't get me wrong absolutely but it's also you have to start building that resume and that's what my point is. Is that if you wait too long? And then you're sitting in front of a jury trying to explain. Why didn't you do this? You had not only do that instead of saying this is what I did I think right. Now we're in a situation similar to Rick Devon's In that if rick out to the end he was going to win. End of story. If Tony gets to the end he is going to win. That's it yeah I mean you. Can you know anybody else next to him would have the second and third best resumes? I do I mean there's nothing else you can do in this time from. Yeah so the only thing they can do is vote out Tony when that becomes available and I think that Ben especially already has that in his mind when he becomes available and for now eased. Keep your enemies. Closer hyper situation. We'll see we'll see you well all right with that. It's about time to wrap things up. So what are your final thoughts? So my thoughts on Kim. She came into this game. I think someone who dominated and we've already talked about how much she dominated her her previous season of a one time player and winning the One and only time she played really did set her up in a very interesting predicament. Against this group of people you know. We talked about those multiple returning players. People that we've seen play so many times and you saw their faults and you saw things that they didn't do correctly and you saw things did well. They kind of learned from their own mistakes. She never had an opportunity to do that. Because of the game that she played in one world she played a great social game and one world she really controlled all the dynamics and all of the people that she was playing and unfortunately for cam coming into a season of layers who know the game laid the game a lot and they've played the game throughout a time that she didn't play the game with idols and advantages and all of these extra components that didn't exist in her season so she had to not only figure out how to play a game with those components but then also play game with people that have done this multiple times. So I think put her at a disadvantage and on top of that. She played poker with some of them. So you know there was that issue to win. Spend much time on the poker lines with her but of course that was that was a component for Kim as well so do think that we saw a Kim from a different perspective than we've ever seen a cam lay this game. Before she was playing from the bottom from day one she was a target right away and I do think that people were very fearful of Kim and her social game and I think they kept her from not getting that foothold chemists. Someone who wants you let her get kind of. I think hurt her closet and she's she's managed to manipulate the situation and kind of control it. You're going very very hard. Time taking that away from him and this group of people was able to throw her off and not allow her to do that and I think she was trying to do it too late in the game and unfortunately for him. She found herself in the situation. Where even though she was trying to make moves and she was strategizing she never got the foothold that she had in one world where she was able to dominate and so we saw him in a different position that unfortunately for her she was still a threat. She was a threat lane. This game from Hun of I don't know not not not a donating controlling place that we all want to seek him. Be Yeah Yeah. Kim Didn't come into the game with his biggest target arbitrary. She didn't expect to come into the game with as big a target as she had. But you know when your game is described repeatedly as one of the most dominant ever people are GonNa pay attention. She was immediately seen as a threat because of her social game and the longer she stayed in more she worked on it the bigger threat however Kim had done a good job of hiding behind other players up to this point even when she did things that made her stand out like playing horrible for Denise. She's still wasn't the main target. Then she drew too much attention to herself by citing. It was time to gun for Tony before the immunity challenge at the challenge. Then she stepped off for food as we discussed maybe she knew she was falling off anyway but she was in far too precarious position in the game. To Take that gamble. Once Tony found out that she had been planning to vote them out. That was all it took in his mind. Sarah had wanted her gone earlier. Tony came to see the threat Kim presented. If she had just continued to hang out in the background she could have been fined for at least another voter to which might have given her the time to change things. Find an idol win immunity whatever but she decided to make a move and immediately suffered the consequences for it and that is why Kim lost sad sad so all right before we get to our predictions. Let me let me remind everyone that was. Let me remind everyone that the rules we just discussed are both available in poster and t shirt for for the shirk shirt Go to rob his website. Dot Com or rob has a PODCAST DOT COM and click on the merchandising. Then sort to see newer items I or the poster tiny dot com slash. David rules poster to remember will donate the proceeds of every poster sale for one more week. Like I said no more dilly-dallying hurry up and do this and in also if you are outside the United States and would like to order the most you can contact me through twitter. Dm Me and I can make arrangements to get closer to you. All right prediction time. I already gave some hints here next week. Is Two hours to tribal councils. He hasn't. Tony has an idol. Ben Has an idol Michelle. Jeremy has a fifty fifty quarter. Yes I have to think that. If Tony doesn't win immunity again. People are going to try to blindside him. But I don't see Joe Nita's going along with any fake plan. They try to sell him so he will play his I. The question is whether either other players will know. He's going to play his idol and therefore not target him. I don't know Jeremy still a very good target especially since Ben went along this time. He's going to be telling. Tony I want my. I want my Jeremy on Germany may have the flip a coin and it's literally a fifty fifty shot as to what might happen there. So where does that leave us? I'M FAIRLY CERTAIN NICK. And Michelle are safe. I'm pretty sure that bannon denise or safe people didn't go after Sarah when they arguably should have this week so I think she's okay. They only leaves to people and with two votes coming. I can't imagine that Jeremy and Tony will continue to make it through. I guarantee at least one them Mogo. I'm going to predict. We have a bloody double episode and both of them get booted. Wow that's interesting because I did. I did forget about the two hours in when I was doing my determinations here. I do think that the Denise Michelle Nick Final Three Conversation has some significance So I think that those three are going to be sticking together. And they'll bring Jeremy in because obviously he's been working with them and he knows that he's like go to target the three councils. I do think that. Yes Tony's GonNa play his idol. He's not going to take a chance if he doesn't want immunities and plays idol. My thought is that this take Euler episode at least okay so break it down first of all is that that group of four the Denise Michelle Nee and Jeremy. I don't know if they caught what Ben said at tribal council about his idol when he was talking to Sarah. He's doing ususally my view ad so like he kind of put it out there in. The university has an idol. But I don't know if anybody heard that Sarah. Obviously Tony knows that. He has an idol. But I think it would be interesting if they ended up targeting Ben and Ben also places idle so tony places idle men plays. And who does Ben WanNa go home on? Anything is Jeremy so hey. Jeremy goes home because band plays on idle. I don't think the coin flip is is going to Come into play here and I just. I don't know if if they're gonNA play it or not. I mean it's it's this idea of well. If I do play it could sway the votes. It could change votes but I don't know if anyone really even knows what it is because when Jeremy was going to take it out of his pocket the rest of the I mean. Michelle knew it. Was Tony kind of knows what it is but I mean to me. I just don't think it's going to have as much of an effect and I do think Jeremy as well and I and I I love all of these people that are playing this game. I think they're all great. Jeremy is a wonderful individual who nobody wants to sit next to at the end integrate story so I do think that him being targeted make sense. Ben We'll be happy because he finally gets done Jeremy. Oh But Yeah I mean I. I don't know how twenty doesn't have an idol. But then Tony Go buy two adult gift. Played Tony's back out looking for an idol right so maybe vinyl and Sarah goes on Roy. If Jeremy Antonio home how that would be insane. They both went home. So you're thinking Jeremy and that's what I'm debating in my brain. I you know what I'm going to go with Sarah. She's because I don't see how Tony doesn't end up finding an idol if they if they get paid nearly if they get played and he goes back out. I don't see how he doesn't find another one. I just feel like that'd be very tony thing to do to go out and find another rail. That's true that's true. All right well we will see at least. We both agree on Jeremy. Unfortunately for Jeremy or predictions mean anything. I was just say yeah happen. All right as we wrap up one encourage people to check out the RHA P patron program at rob has website dot com slash patron as we've mentioned rob donated. April subscriptions to an organization that provides personal protective equipment to doctors and nurses and match that their nation and he's extended another week just like we have so hurry up and become a patron. Once you join. You'll see that. Rob Does at least nine. Patriot only call and shows a month. Plus those trivia ones I mentioned last time plus weekly. Qa show with coal several shows have been live streaming to the patrons hus- There are discounts. And I access to live show tickets recall. Leave our houses again. This week was supposed to have been the Atlanta know. It alls I was supposed to been there. So that's why I'm wearing. This is not this is the New York. This is the New York New York. Know it alls shirts. So in honor of the missing. Atlano dolls wearing that. But in the meantime when we can't go out there are facebook groups to keep you occupied with a great community of people including both of us And you can talk about survivor. Big Brother other shows life in general again. Remember to go to. Rob Has website that com slash patron. And once you get to the facebook groups make sure to say hello to us an incredible group of people individuals who you have a nominal time communicating with about all the things you love and all they love so great great group of people and Wonderful Perks as David already mentioned. You can also follow me on twitter. I am at Jessica Lose Eighty Nine and David Bloomberg is at David Bloomberg in. You should follow us. Both we do live tweet during the episode. So spoiler alert. We live tweet so you don't care now anything. Don't check the twitter but follow us because it's a it's a fun thing to certainly be part of and again. I'm at Jessica Lewis Eighty nine. He's at Bloomberg and follows both and we tweet throughout the week things about the show so I found a really video. I think they want to put up them denise as well because her immunity win was adorable at we just mentioned that but when she actually one thousand cutest thing ever so might just put that out there to. Eso follows both on twitter. Okay now we need a Hashtag I do. You have anything now. Only thing I have is how we started the PODCAST. The spike rituals amazing. I I would love for you to show everyone how you manage to get to your couch. That would be really funny. You should do right now. No it then. It's not a spike. How I can't give away the secrets of the I. I literally had no idea what was going on. I was on Newark dislike disappearing like what is happening as incredible by-catches good all right and of course there's the Hashtag for this podcast overall y. X. Lost Make sure everyone that you are subscribed to all VR JP SURVIVOR PODCASTS. At podcast dot com slash survivor. Or just. Go to your phone and on your favorite pod Catcher We are also on the reality. Tv wrap ups feed in both places. You'll find great content like the know it alls wiggle room the BNB this weekend survivor and much more and thank you so much to the wonderful individuals that make this possible. Scott saint-pierre does all of the editing for both now video and audio so you have a choice you can either watch us and laugh at David Bloomberg. Only you can ask. Yes with David. Bloomberg wonderful antics David. I can't complain out or you can just listen to us and if you do just to the audio podcast. You'll hear a great song will from America. Thank you so much for coming up with the theme song for this podcast. So thank you to both of those individuals for helping us but all of this wonderful thing together All right and thank you to Jessica for another great week and next week we'll be back and talking about a two hour to hour shows a lot to talk about well. I did realize a lot to catch up on and I also feel like this is strange because I'm I'm looking at the timing of it and how many days in how do people are left my season there was way too? Many people left with like nine days left in the game and now there. There's clearly not as many people left but final like is may thirteenth right so they clearly have a lot of things to get through before we get to the final episode so there is still a lot of game left to play. But Yeah it's GONNA be crazy. Two hours exciting will be a lot of good stuff to see lot of things talk about and it might be very very messy as you said being all right with that. I'm going back into the spike. I can't but thank you everyone bulls and you're feeling down TV JESSICA ALBA. Turn it around though breakdown. The RULE SANDWICH. Show you how yourself and gap. This is Wa Blank Bob Lying these.

Jeremy Tony Kim Tony Tony Tyson Jeremy Sarah Tony Nick Ben Flipping Tony tribal council Nick Switch twitter Kim I Sophie Tony Right Kim Spradlin denise Tony Now Jeremy There Tony One David Jeremy Coney
Survivor 40 | Why __ Lost Predictions with David Bloomberg & Jessica Lewis

Reality TV RHAP-ups: Reality TV Podcasts

2:02:24 hr | 1 year ago

Survivor 40 | Why __ Lost Predictions with David Bloomberg & Jessica Lewis

"If you want a server in your feeling down. TV Jessica Round. They'll break down the rule sandwich sandwich. Show Zane yourself and gap bullying owns. This is why blank long basis this is Bob Line. Welcome to our special full preseason edition of why blank loss. I'm your host David Bloomberg and at this point every every time I close my eyes I see images of survivor winners floating through my brain. Sometimes I don't even have to close my eyes. I think they call hallucinations. But anyway right there with me is my co host Jessica Lewis. Who has spent more time studying for this podcast than she did for the Lsat on my word let me tell you? There are so many images going through my head right now. I think they're all gonna be like messed up in jumble than if I say the wrong season for the wrong person I apologize but I will say there is so much out there on all of these contestants obviously because they're all winners they're all returnees from previous media seasons and so there's so much material out there that yeah it's a lot it's a lot lot yes so yes all right for newcomers to this podcast. Welcome if you heard US talking to rob out. Why the winners loss? Thanks for following US over for the full preview here on reality L. D. TV ups and welcome back all those who've listened before once the season begins of course. We'll be here every week. Discuss what each voted out player did right and wrong in terms of rules I originally wrote back after the very first survivor season and have been updating ever since discussing each player used to appear in in my columns on Rayleigh News Online website which I created in ran for a long time but which I have to close down several years ago the column was then reborn as a podcast cast with rob a few years ago and then we switch things up to bring Jessica on board yes. There was a very exciting moment for me me getting to join you. Because as I've said Multiple Times listening to your podcasts about my season and the entire time I just kept going. He's so right and I know that you love to hear that of course but so it was really incredibly a just an honor to hear from both you and rob that you wanted me to join you the brainiacs of survivor the Encyclopedias of survivor so I really appreciate your willingness to keep doing this with me me too me too so now well now today. We're going to be doing something different. Of course we're going to talk about The the players and make some predictions as you know. Of course you should expect for a preview show this is going to be a bit different from our normal preseason podcast because everyone listening probably knows most or all of these players. I and there's probably a few who don't but you know you're going to know most or all of them so it's not like we're going to go through and introduce them Mike. Hi this is Michelle. She's a twenty something travel consultant. You know there's no point in doing that because the reason these people are. Here's their winners and normally we also predict what rules a player going to violate but as indicated in the previous podcast with rob. Don't don't be too much of a threat. is going to be a major reason for getting out in voted out over and over again so we would just have to predict that time now now. Ironically some of the players who aren't seen as much of a threat might be seen as more of a threat for the reason is in that they aren't a big threat and those players tend to win all star seasons. You so you could you know be too much of a threat by not being enough of a threat by being too much of a threat but anyway brains around that one. That's right so we're going to break the format a little bit and just talk about our earth thoughts on each player who they might align with in how we think they're going to do as I mentioned I've been covering survivors in season one. And for much of that time I was writing y blank lost or one columns and doing exit interviews so parts of our discussions today will involve things that I've rediscovered in looking back to those articles when the relevant unfortunately for me I don't have that what's called experience and that's true so maybe a little bit of color a little bit of personal experience but also I do have incredible respect for these players and it was really nice getting to revisit so much. Uh of incredible aims that they've played youtube is a wonderful thing. And you can totally sucked in and there's so much stuff there but it was. It was really kind of the Celtic till they sit there and watch it and remember where I was when it actually happened because I've been watching since season. One and of never missed is the season. So it's nice to revisit these things. Yeah yeah now I mentioned normally we go through the rules each week but to be honest with all this studying. I'm not modifying them for the season yet. If anyone is interested you can find. The latest version from last season at ROB has a website dot com slash blog slash survivor rules or four. Of course you can get the shorter and much more colorful version of the rules in poster form at tiny url dot com slash. David rules poster. Yes and you should definitely definitely order. We have an incredible opportunity for anyone who hasn't yet just one. They're only twenty dollars. Air Eleven by seventeen youthful design nine by air breaking back as many who appeared on the The the preseason special of course because you know heaven even forbids survivor pass up a chance to show his moment immunity necklace like everyone should probably remember him because it gets brought up all the time and in addition to that he also draws really incredible cartoons so the poster is twenty dollars. I said it's rate looks wonderful on frame so please order. We'll get that out to you and if you are outside of the United States you can. Dm Me and I will definitely make arrangements to get that to you regardless. Awesome where you are and so you know listeners. From last season may remember. We talked about how we were running out and indeed we did so we talked about it. We went ahead and in order to second printing and it's the same url tiny dot com slash. David rules poster. It'll take you to Ebay and also you know we may have a few things coming coming soon in another location besides posters. Like maybe shirts so we. They're not ready yet. But we'll let you know when exciting. Yeah that's right now before we get to the players there are few things I want to discuss. And the first is the pace of the game or what we expect expected to be. We keep hearing about this from players and commentators like us but to a large extent I feel like the pace of the game is dependent upon the players. If a bunch of older school players want things to move more slowly than it will a few newer players may try to push things along and jump out front but they may just get too far ahead of themselves and you know. Producers can add twists and swaps but if players choose to take things slow and stay loyal. Oil there isn't much anyone can do about it and I think that's exactly what some of the players want to do. Yeah I think in going. Through a lot of the interviews I noticed that term loyalty coming up aligned especially with the older school players loyalty is something that is kind of ingrained in them. And that's something that regardless of the new pace of the game and how the game is played currently. I don't think the loyalty is going to get checked at the door. I think that's something that they will revisit and I think that's going to slow down the pace of the game. Absolutely if they get if if the old school players get away. I think that's what's yeah now. At least two who have played in previous return e seasons mentioned that it is faster right away in those seasons. So maybe it's just the nature feature of everybody feeling comfortable but I guess we'll see it'll be interesting to you know when we see it happen on our screens. Yes and I do think it's really going to be dependent on who kind of takes the reins and leads the charge because that really will I think kind kind of set the pace and if you have someone like a Boston Rob. WHO's able to get his footing? I think his haste is is a slower one because it's more What's the word like? It's he's very consistent and he knows how he wants things end up so he moves at a pace. That's going to allow him to get there but it's so regimented. And how he how he does it and I think that someone like rob if he gets his footing and starts the game in that way. That's what's going to end up kind of carrying row so I'm excited. But I I can't imagine any one of the newer players hitting that foothold before someone like Rob Right Right and speaking of Rob. Another thing we'll see about is whether the big threats will be immediately targeted or you're going to stick together when we were talking with our rob on the earlier. podcast he said he thinks the big targets will actually last because they'll become Mita shields uh-huh and during that podcast. I pooh-poohed that idea the more research I've done and the more interviews I've read a maybe it's just turning turning my brain damage but I'm starting to wonder if he's right. I think he is thinks I starting to wonder by just can't convince myself it'll happen happen that way. I still think it will be asking too much for all of them to work together. I there's too many egos they're there's too many targets and it's kind. Mandalay reminds me of your couple of seasons ago when all the big threats got together yet. War Dog oh Kelly Dave all of them together and they were like well if we stick together and don't knock each other Out then we're good but if we start shooting at each other then we're all in trouble right what happened. We all started shooting at each other. Well s you know. They're going to know the edge of extinction before they start the game or are they going to be told. We have any idea about that. We I don't I feel like I feel like they're going to be told because some of them were speculating about it. And Jeff probst made that ridiculous claim in one of his interviews where he said. Well I feel like some of the players players want to come back if it weren't for edge of extinction which is utter nonsense and I was so happy with the winners who came out and said the edge of extinction sucks. Because anyone who's listened US already does our opinion on that and by the way I find it funny somehow you have escaped the The the tarring and feathering here because when when when rob was talking to us he kept talking about how I had gone off on it. People people listening to this podcast. You ranted just as much as I did and I did rant. I totally own that I did and I also got to rant. Recently Martin homes got in touch with me and said hey what are your thoughts on edge of extinction and that was just flat on twitter today so if you wanna read how I feel about it in this it was. I was pretty honest in my feelings about ends of extinction as I think a lot of people have been. It's something that across the board word seems to really ring about an emotional response from people and I'm one of those people that does not like it but thinks if you include it fine you can include it but it needs to end at the merge like that's it done at the merge that makes a lot more sports but if you want more of my take on it you can certainly check that All right now I did not know that I have been kind of put her absent lately. So yeah yeah me too. Because we've been doing this a little crazy. Yes yes yeah so inside little inside baseball here yesterday listeners. I called Jessica in the evening because we you know we've been doing so much research and I I was just trying to get a handle on things and she answers her phone. Why are you calling during the survivor? preseason Michelle I had no clue. I didn't know what day it was. I didn't know what time it was. Yeah so so. Anyway I was doing. I was is watching that while I was sitting in front of my computer trying to read interviews and wanted the same time and I was like this is too much but this is this is the world you have sucked me into so all right good all right. Well since we're in that world unless you have anything else we can start right in with the red tribe I I think we can. I just do want to say they'll going back to the pace of the game and the edge of extinction. I do think depending upon whether or not players are told about the extinction before the first vote is going to really affect how people are holding out. I think it could. I don't know if it will greatly affect it. I think it could affect it but in all honesty it shouldn't because only one person at least at the merge urge and then probably one later to come back and so if you're gonNA vote out big threats well then keep voting out big threats and only only one of them is going to get the combat exactly so the only way that I could. No no I was Gonna say I could see it affecting it a certain certain way but more I thought about it. It doesn't make sense. I'm not even going to say it but I just I. It could affect people's thinking but I hope it won't we want either but I I stand you're actually mentioned that that would certainly affect how the votes are going to be cast and and I think if they know that the edge of extinction exists that the idea of we're going to keep the old school players together and we're GONNA use a lot of meat shields might turn into let's send all the meat shields to extinction so only one of them has the possibility of coming back as opposed to keeping them around much longer. I just feel like that's that's certainly going to come into play my opinion that would be that. That would be so ironic if jeff created this so that the the big strong target type players to come back and instead it causes them all to get voted out early. Ah I would that would that would just be funny. Yeah one one place that edge of extinction knowledge of it will come. Came into effect is the first person that we're going to talk about on the red tribe and that's amber because if and this is not anything new what I'm about to say rob has talked about this too but if amber and rob are on you know they're sitting there on their separate tribes and if rob is voted out first and there's no edge of extinction people worry a lot less about amber with edge of extinction. They know that rob can come back. And in fact the whole fire token thing also makes me think that they will all know about extinction. Because whatever's going on with fire fire tokens involves edge of extinction. Right which is another reason. I don't like you because now they're actually making it part of the game and right and so that you know getting back to amber is a reason that even if rob is voted out she's still potential trouble double and so we talked about embers first game in our why the winters loss podcast and a lot about her win in all stars is already very well known but I want to return to something. I pointed out in that podcast. which is that? Her strategy in all-stars seemed to ah be somewhat similar to the one she used in Australia. She partnered up with a more obnoxious person. Who could drive the bus and take the heat and the first time she did it? Jerry was too obnoxious and got voted off taking away amber shield but she obviously struck gold the second time with rob and that that meant she could ride into the final rounds and then into the sunset with her husband. Now she's back for a sequel and we have to wonder if she's going to try the same something again while she indicated a lot that she cannot play the same way that she planned previously. She seemed very aware of that particular issue even though if she wants to be old school because that's what she knows I think she's also mindful of the fact that she was the the second in a duo and ended up winning because she had less blood on our hands and I'll maybe she wants to make more of a name for herself as opposed to being the second to her husband Rob I think that's ultimately ultimately what happened in all stars. He got blamed for the itchiness that was created with that duo and she didn't get blamed for it as much and maybe she wants to the show that she can play more cutthroat than she did before but she's also amber ceases so sweet and looking at her tribe options if she's really going to go back down that path and want to align with someone who's more obnoxious. I mean really. What are her options? Maybe maybe Tyson Tyson. Maybe Tony but I don't know if she tyson. I think she's got a relationship with outside of the game so I don't know who she would necessarily choose to be that other half. Yeah and yeah the FIG is if by some chance the other players let Andrew and rob get together via swap or the merge somehow then we know official partner of course. The question is whether she'll do it before then and if she'll have another plan when rob is voted out even even if she does I don't think amber can win again this way. I just don't think the winners will reward somebody who uses that strategy in less. She's up against to Austin robs in the final three who have somehow managed to piss off everybody in the jury. Yeah no I agree with you. I think this group of layers is is going to be mindful of the fact that whoever wins represents the winners and they're going to want whoever that winner is to be a true winner winner and someone who really kind of drove the bus. If you will and made the decisions and made things happen and I don't know if they would reward someone who didn't do it so much and was more likable about it. You know I think they would reward. Blind your hands for sheriff. Yeah now looking back at my column on Y Ember Number One. I concluded at the time that basically she made one very good move hooking up with rob besides that she was lucky that lex abandoned his strategy. She instead of friendship rule. When he should've voted her off she was lucky that so many people missed so many chances to break up her partnership with rob and send her packing or him when she even admitted in her interview with me that they should have done that she she did a good job of staying under the radar while allowing rob create and take the heat and she was probably a sounding board who also contributed somewhat to the strategic discussions? But in my opinion it was mostly rob. I don't think that's that's a real hot there but now that she's older and wiser she'll almost certainly be able to stand more on her own. Two feet I just don't think it'll be enough. Yeah it's going to be hard for her. I think that rob is almost an Achilles heel for her because everyone knows about him and everyone knows that he's going to be there air so it's one thing if you're just the other half of Boston rob but now you're the other half of Boston and Boston. Rob Is playing again and you saw. I don't know if you saw or people saw the first few minutes but it's noticed very quickly like Oh your wife is here so I mean every year so it's certainly certainly not going to be missed and I think everyone is going to be thinking that's too. They're definitely going to stay together. And I know that in the interviews that I've been listening listening to people are trying to determine okay. Do I want to utilize them to have two votes. Because then I know I'm just going to be a third and I know I'm I'm not ever going to break that at two. So it's this idea of. I know I can have two votes if I work with both of them but I also know that I am definitely third man out so it's A. It's a very very precarious situation for anybody to sign up to to play with and take that chance because you know they are not going to cut each other. Yeah now in our podcast. Our Rob joke that maybe living with Boston rob all this time has rubbed off a ton of survivor strategy on amber but she said in her entertainment weekly interview. There's a couple out there who I really know. Nothing about. Besides just their name. That can be a scary thing. Because I don't know anything thing about them she later added. I guess probably my biggest weakness but could also be seeing the other way would be to have never played with any of these people before and not really know. Oh them at all so you know and she was saying that. Even I played before this I played before that she claims she played before blindsides. I think rob sister after Nino might disagree with that characterization but The the the point is yeah. It was a long time ago and I'm I'm sure she has kept up with the game but not to the degree that her husband has or most of these other players totally agree with that. I think that to her benefit she she is going to be with some other strong women who have I think Rhone through the game and also grown since the game and I think that's going to be beneficial to her. She was very young when she played the first time. And I think we've seen that with other people who are on her tribe that they were they were young before they played the game and now they are married they have children so they've matured and I think that she can find some great connections with people very similar to her on her tribe. But I do think that it's it's going to be hard for her to really get her footing aside timing good connections. I don't know if she's going to necessarily have the strategic chop says says she's GonNa need to play with these people. Yeah so my prediction. I think she's an early target especially as we discussed with edge of extinction implying. I agree all right. We can move onto Kim who is a an interesting situation because she's only played once but she did. It's such a good job that I think she's still considered a fairly big threat out there. It doesn't help podcasts. Have talked about how good she was. And so even if it even if some of the players might not have realized if they listen well and you know they heard that She told entertainment weekly. She thought there were other players. WHO'd be bigger threats but then we heard from some of those other players will yet they did indeed worry about her and it's interesting too because there's there's almost like a little asterix next to her window go where so many people have been commenting on the fact that her cast wasn't a very strong cast? And if you go back and watch her season uh she really did I mean she completely dominated and it. It's almost mind-blowing that the people she was playing with didn't see her coming didn't didn't see this happening and they put so much in Cam. I mean so much so they were going to trust their lives to Kim. I mean she was very very much just kind of almost worshipped worshipped by the people. Choose playing the game with and I think she that works so well for her because nobody nobody saw coming. Nobody really knew her. Obviously this was a new you season. It was new players and so she was able to be that way without being necessarily notice. Now it's on everybody's radar that she just completely dominated and granted. She dominated a cast of players that were not cast of winners. So it'll be interesting to see the house. She lays with people at a much higher level than I think she played with. Before who else dominated a cast of Not So great players Players Boston Rob Exactly. So he hasn't asked. Yeah Yeah. That's a lot of asterisks but now one interesting point from Kim is that she said she thinks this season might end up being a little more old school so she's one of those people we were talking about earlier a I'm not sure if she meant from a production side or player side like maybe she was thinking. There would be fewer idols twists. If so you're totally wrong But you know as I mentioned earlier in the podcast. It's possible that the older school players will try to slow things down and if enough of them do it can work but they also don't Wanna come off as telling the other players do and if there are bunch of swaps and twists. He they just might not have choice in the matter but I also think that if enough of them can come together that even with the swap some twists they still might be able to bring it back to an old place is that they enjoy and that they can maybe maybe ingratiates olds will mentality into this world of twists in idols that we find ourselves playing. Let's hope I feel like Kim is probably GonNa make the merge I don't think she'll get real near the end because because I think people are going to worry about. I think that Kim's biggest potential issue is just her likeability factor. She really is a likable person since she's nice and I think when she talks to people they really feel like there's a genuine connection and everyone saw her do that on her season and if she tries to do that again. I think these players will be more mindful of that and will question her motives more so I do think that she's going to have a difficult time getting to the end but I do think that she will make inactions. I know that she wants to work with amber. So that'll be an interesting relationship to see if it actually happens as if they do connect and are able to play together. But I think she's going to do well because physically also she still looks like she's in the shape she was when she replay previous Lynch did great in the physical challenges before so she'll definitely be a benefit to her tribe and I think that could also keep her around longer so I I fear for her towards the end though because of ability yep same thing all right we can move on to move from all school to the newest school. Who'll and that's nick? Your winner now. Yes my winner you know. I had picnic to win. David versus Goliath. And I was of course right and I did discuss nick somewhat in the There were five roundtable. PODCASTS that rob did and Where you know each one had a number of people talking about some of the players? I was in the one with the the newer players and so IOS. I did discuss nick there and anyone who heard me there knows that well. I'm picking an almost opposite result for I. I think he'll be one of the first five out and they're just might not be much you can do about it. He will be the new guy with a bunch of people who know each other one way or another another and well let me put it this way in his pre-game getting to know you video from David Versus Goliath. He said you build up relationships over a long period. You don't win on day three. And that's what he ended up doing. But this time there will be people with alliances since years before day one and he's not among them so I I know he's hoping that he has an advantage because he knows the pace of the game or what he thinks. The pace of the game will be played in Fiji. It can be a free agent but his disadvantages are that the other saw him play they saw. He's a smart guy. I and he's a lawyer rather than you know the persona he had created. They saw that. He made multiple alliances with different people. He's just yeah. I agree completely with the assessment. I also am concerned with his pre-game approach. I'm going to go on a little bit of soapbox here if you don't mind I understand. Yeah I have to understand. There's this idea of pre-game alliances. And whether or not he will should have them in. Do they have them in. Do they not have them and someone who has been on the show before I mean this is something you hear a lot about whether or not people have three game alliances and I know that. CBS doesn't doesn't like it when people have them. Because it can have a negative effect on the actual game itself. But I do appreciate the fact that when in an interview. Someone's asking about pre-game alliances. They'd just say no. I wouldn't do that. Why would i? I'M NOT GONNA hurt my own game to do that like even if you have them. It's better to just I think. Shy Away from the idea that you'd actually created any and nick was right out there. Are you suggesting the players should lie by suggesting that they shouldn't survivor. They shouldn't even if it's an interview. I just don't think it's a smart idea to throw out there to anybody that you had a pre game alliance with you will and Michelle. which is exactly what he did he was? I mean he couldn't wait to say it like it was a very interesting response because I just feel like he's so excited to play this game again. which is awesome great for him? And I don't blame for being excited but to you be willing to admit that so quickly and so openly and not even just like well. I'm GonNa talk to some players. He was either pre-game lines with you'll Michelle and that was it you know and I worry for him because I feel like he's going to be overly anxious to play instead of trying to just let the game happen and I so that makes me very nervous for him that there's there's too much of a desire to jump into quick too soon too fast. which is why he's so excited? Writing About having a three-game Lance yeah. I also don't think that's GONNA work. I think he is has the likelihood of relying on on that and we've seen similar attempts on other seasons and it it rarely works. He also thought he connect with window Dole because Davies friends with him. Maybe that'll work. But the friend of a friend thing people aren't usually going to change their games because of that and you know you'll in particular he's GonNa do what's best for him. When he gets to Fiji he's not going to you know? Join up with Nick just because they exchanged some tax write. And you're yeah like I said we've seen it before now. Sometimes it does work. I think on game changers. There were rumors of several people who had a pregame alliance and stuck to it. There were other rumors of people who have pre game alliances and voted each other. Or the hell out so you know. I don't think it's going to work and it's interesting. What you said about him being excited to play again because the other thing was that he seemingly trying to get in good with Tyson because he said that Tyson hasten is his favourite but then Tyson mentioned in an interview that when he turned his baseball cap around yes and I I think that was nick's way of trying to communicate wordlessly with him that hey I want to work with you? Look I'm trying to be like you or just. It's an interesting way to communicate that I and I do think that in other situations it might work but this is heison gray. And I'm not sure Tyson sought that way you don't think patients out of his way to align with now. I think that's very like Oh my goodness I wanNA speak ill of nick. I do think he seems like a really okay. Great Guy but that's that's very elementary like like elementary school. Like ooh that's the guy I wanNA emulate so I'm GONNA turn my hat around because that's the way he wears his hat to try like. Yeah I want to do it. The cool kids are doing and like try to send a message. I think it really just comes across as being desperate and I think Tyson was was probably seen in it that way that this is a little too anxious to desirous supply. Like you can't show your hand. I think in a season like this so so quickly because someone lied. Tyson's going to use that his advantage. He's GonNa know that Nick is anxious to play with them and he is totally going to take advantage of neck four and then he's is probably going to decimate neck because of it so you cannot show your card to someone like Tyson so quick before the game even starts. Yeah like I said it may be a new player season like if you see someone you want to work with. That would be a a a a way of quietly signaling here but not the I know I'm not now with this group of people you are coming across way too anxious and I feel like nick is presenting himself even in his interviews that we've seen gene that anxious energy is really kind of seeping off of him and it's probably something that they saw Ponderosa so i. I have very very very big concerns for Nick as well. Not only because of that but also he doesn't have the connections with people because he is one of the newer your players and so I feel like people will kind of look at making A. He's he's he's disposable really because we don't have a connection with him. We don't have anything really that we can relate to him. He's he's a new school player. Lets you know he can go. And I think that that's going to happen with it. Yeah I mean his best hope. Is that the big guns targeted early and even then though I think he's next on the list which is why I've been saying he's out in the first but but now I did WanNa bring something up in case you didn't notice this. Did you see how he responded to Gordon. Homes as standard question of everyone. Everyone about how they'd explain survivor aliens. Yes is it was he the one that said the drill. He yes used your rock out. He didn't describe it that way but he wants to use your worst survivor moment to describe survivor like hey. Let's let's teach everyone how great survivor is. Here's this this crazy rock-dropping Jessica crying just to show how. How much will we'll put on the line? Oh my God yeah I read that and it was like let's an interesting choice. Well well those yes. Those are rough moment. I think alien saw that ailing saw any of this. It'd be like what is wrong with these people. Yes but that that was an interesting choice for sure. Yeah so thanks for thinking of of that moment as your alien moment I appreciate that is. He's probably stopped listening at this point about him. So listen again. Listen I think nick obviously rock this season but I feel for him in this season because I do think that there's something to be said about the people who've been around for a long time and been exposed to this survivor family and survivor ever existence. And and he's new to it and it it's trust me I'm still I go to these functions and I meet people in your your fan girling and I. I want to take pictures with everybody and I have to try to keep it in check because I also don't want to be annoying because that's how it can come across. It can come across as being annoying and not that nick is trying to be that way. He's a huge fan of the game and he's getting to play with these people. I can't even imagine how that would be processing in my brain so I get it but I'm so I'm concerned for him. Yeah all right. Now we can move onto Sandra. And what do we say about Sandra. That hasn't been said mom. Where's you won twice? She originated or perfected. The anybody but me strategy. She knows quite well how to imply. She knows how to keep her emotions separate from the game. She knows how to win over a jury and she knows she's a huge which target who should be voted out I even when she came back in game changers with all of that she managed to get an alliance together and stick around are longer than most people until she got swapped with people who were not going to play that game. So what more can we say. I love that so many people have said they WANNA work. I think that's awesome because I think they're crazy. I do think they're crazy. Because Sandra even said it whenever interviews his vote me out I and because she is the type of person who because she's not a physical threat she's not going to be a challenge Beast she's someone who's very if she likes to you know if she doesn't like you know it. So there's nothing hiding Sandra and I feel like some people are approaching that as you know what you're going to get with Sandra but Sandra will take every little bit of information that she has and she'll be able to spin it and turn it against against you or make things happen and she does it in a very very quiet way and then all of a sudden it just happened. She's she pays attention and she's someone who if she gets her flooding is going to be incredibly dangerous. And so I find it so fascinating that so how many people are like I want Sandra. She's GonNa be my shield standard might be might be the death of you know. She's she might just cause your demise so so it was fascinating to see so many people wanting to work. Yeah especially since I feel like Sandra has a target at least as big as the big giant head statue. The other clear players got the seat you know. She's she's also the type of player that well like. You said some may WANNA keep around in part because as you can always get rid of her later. Normally I'd say if that happens with someone who has the skill Sandra has. It could be dangerous but in her case. I just can't imagine anyone letting her get anywhere near the end because if she gets there I'm just GonNa say this right now. If she gets to the end and she wins doesn't even have to say anything to the jury. She walks out and says I was the only two time winner and you Bozos let me get here. Yeah who deserves this and I think that hurt. The way that she played in game changers was such a good representation of what we could see. I know that you've already talked about this. There's a little bit but everyone assumed I think pre-game with game changers at Sandra going to be like I went out but she really was able to find all all those little cracks in that tribe and use them and she. She really did a phenomenal job. Lasting much longer than I think we all expected and that was with returnees with people that knew how to play the game and she's in the same type of environment with people that know how to play the game and I just I really l. like there could if she gets the end. Yeah that's unbelievably. It'll be a shock that anyone let it happen by. She's taken it to the final three so I think she'll either go within the first couple episodes or right around the merge but no later than that. Yeah so all right. Well now we can talk about. Sarah who beat Sandra in in Changers and Sarah was extremely extremely high on her in her. Et candidate interview going out going on about her game. How she's the best because she beat San? I'd like to think she was kidding. But she didn't seem to be so if she was she had a very dry sense of humor there. Now don't get me wrong. I think she she played a good game. But this isn't game changers anymore. And she is a big hill to climb because the way Sarah played at that point got her the win but it also ensured that she would be targeted if she ever came back again and here she is. She played a social game. That allowed her it to get to know people on a personal level and still double crossed them and we heard from a number jurors about how much that hurt. You can bet the other winners heard uh and sought to and the response seems to be that many of them want her gone. I if the entertainment weekly hypothetical I vote is any indicator. Yeah Yeah I was shocked to see that that so many people are so threatened by her but I do think that she has come into this environment very very exposed. She's one of the more recent layers. She's the most recent female winner and she someone that he'll saw changed her game dramatically. Okay from first time. She played to the second time and so if she's able to improve upon it so much in order to pull off a win the second time because it really was so so different than the first time. She played that she someone who they should rightfully be afraid of his ABC's so good at fixing things that were wrong with her game from the first time the second time it only imagine what she's got store for the third time and I was playing with her. I WOULD WANNA necessarily find that out especially if you remember her final three tribal council when she was talking about how good her game wasn't where stems comes from and she was talking about this undercover work. She did and how she has to be other people because she's a police officer. That makes it even more scary because I mean you really can put on different and hats if you will and play different people and they saw her do that and they saw her do it very very well and which means she can do it again right and you'll going back to our why winners I las podcast. You know speaking of how she could change her game. We discussed how Sarah made the classic mistake of leading swing vote power. Go your head in Kardashian. But she corrected that in her win and she told Rob in her game changers red carpet interview Arab of course that she learned and she had to be more adaptable and not put her foot down. She also said that if someone else wants to take the lead she'd let them because she was still in on the decision and not standing out the head of the alliance. That was a great lesson in theory. It could help her here again but in practice. I don't think anybody is going going to let her get to that. Point by aligning themselves with her. He the only hopes you might have is a Sandra. Sandra might look at someone like Sarah Sarah as a benefit to her because if so many people are targeting Sarah I think Sandra might want to kind of keep that Interact pocket if she can Dan and the longer you keep Sarah around. Maybe the less attention is on Sandra. But I don't know if that's going to cause standard problems. I know it's A. It's a possibility it would be interesting to see if Sanderson which that spin on it. Al Bring Sarah Long World It's almost like Van Halen here. You know Sandra's violence if she wants the next larger villain and may be interesting to see if those two end up coming together honor to Antoni. All of whom are on the same tribe did speak in the previous what we now. So if they stay true to their word it could save all three of them. Now you know she did tell Gordon homes that she recognizes. How people are looking at her and she has to behave for a little bit and overcome overcome the hurdle of people not wanting to trust her? So she's going to have to work with maybe those two and some other people to demonstrate trots. That's the only chance she has. Yeah yeah no I agree. She's definitely going to need to find someone in find some quickly in order to not be targeted and those two seem like probably heard her best back. Yeah now when Sarah won her season Sophie who is our next discussion person to discuss here. Breath was subbing for rob. I know it alls while he was out on the red carpet interviewing her and said Sarah was lucky enough to come into that season as one of the few you people who were not viewed as a threat before the game even began and that was a good point by Sofi and one. We've seen time and time again in returning players seasons and it's also why. I Made Sophie my winter. You know I know. There are other winners who are viewed as less of a threat. But as I mentioned earlier in the podcast Hawk cast those people who are less of a threat may actually be targeted because these winners are sparred enough to know that coming in as a lesser threat makes you a viable winter and I feel like Sophie is kind of on the border. She's not too much of a threat but she's also not a complete non threat who would attract that kind of ironic roenick attention. Yeah I think so fees a very interesting character because she's been so separated. I think from the survivor world even though she is included and she still friends with people. We don't see that much of Sophie. We don't hear that much from her. She does occasional podcasts. Here and there but she's one of those those winners. That was on what I think. She called kind of dark season and she played with people. Cocker I mean. You can't forget that you know. She played against cocker and she. She ended up beating Auburn beat coach and when she beat some very well known players that we've seen go on and play again and someone Cochran who won so. I do think that you have to have incredible respect for the game that she managed play while she was out there when she took an alliance all the way to the end which is something very old school and I don't know if we'll see something like that again but I do think she's one of those sleepers that the way that she presents herself she's always kind of in the mix but she's not the one that's at the forefront she's not the one you necessarily seen and thinking of all the time and I think that will definitely unwell for her in this players. Yeah now one thing that could work against her she told et Canada. She's an introvert and doesn't make acquaintances. Easier She says it's hard to give a lot of herself but she knows it's needed. I think she can overcome a an interesting point. She made was saying that she thinks the fluidity witty of alliances is higher on return season which may be true. Especially if there's a lot of swapping but I also think that maybe one reason people will want to find loyal allies allies to stick with like you mentioned earlier and she can fill that role. Yeah I agree. I think that she is the type of person that if she says she's GonNa stick with you you that's GonNa mean something if they go back and remember how she wasn't her season and that's if they even remember I mean i. I do think that the loyalty card is going to to matter in this particular group of people because we do have so many layers who were played when that did really actually mean something. I The news foil not so much but the loyalty card I think will matter and it will definitely make a difference. Okay well you save a new school not so much but wait till we talk about your season. The I listen. I know because I was one of those people that I was. I went to racks because I was being so loyal so but I'm also I'm older. I'm not a millennial. They have a different mindset on that too but yes for sure I played. I played with loyalty very. Yeah that was important to me. Yes now after Sophie played her first time in one I interviewed her and she talked about how she felt like. She knew what was going on all the time and nothing ever happened that she didn't want to happen so oh she was pretty well. Controlling the game made tight allies. Who wouldn't flip? There's that loyalty thing and work to keep her alliance together while staying at the center of it and then she outplayed at her opponents at the final tribal council giving the jury the truth about her backstabbing which was all they wanted to hear. I think this jury will be similar. I I don't think they're gonNA WANNA be face people who are full of Baloney now. I think Sophie needs to make solid alliance or two and then walk the tightrope between being a threat and not being. Yeah and I think. She's Rona last sensors. Lucy like twenty one on when she played the first time or something very young and she was still able to hold her own with the people that she played with. I love that. She acquainted coach to like her female counterpart on on our season. So she's very mindful of having that second person who she can utilize to her benefit and if she finds that second person on this group or within this group. I think she's going to be integrate place and I think some of the people she's interested in plain with like poverty will be the very strong second if she's if she's able to actually get with her because obviously they're starting on different tribes but it also seems like Sophie is someone that multiple People have mentioned that they wanna work with which is also a good sign for her so if people want to work with her then they're not gonNA voter out right away because maybe they wanna try to form on right so all right well. There's there's my official winning again through all right now we move on to Tony and his his arc and the game is going to depend in large part if he holds true to what he's been telling the media about how he's GonNa play things as I mentioned worthy winners loss. PODCAST question is if he can tone it down. I think he'll be able to for a little while. But you can't keep Tony in about you. Know if if he has a solid alliance by that point he might be okay. But I think what's going to bring out the crazy is he'll find himself in a situation. Shen that either is really bad for him or he interprets as being bad for him so he goes full Tony try to extricate himself but he'll just end up the digging deeper yeah. I hope we don't see what we saw last time we talked about this. Tony Lost Sandra. Andrew wanted to work with him and that was such a great opportunity for him in Game Changers and he blew it he completely blew. It and Sandra was very aware that he was a loose cannon and quickly cut ties with him and he ended up getting voted out. So he's someone who does need to try to maintain some semblance of calm but if he does that I think it might also create some suspicions in people. Because that's not the Tony. They know the Tony that these people have seen seen play the game. Is that phrase Tony. WHO's running through the woods who hiding in bunkers and behind bushes and is is really taking taking the game to another level? That people hadn't really seen before Tony One and so if he doesn't do that I don't know if that's going to instill some concern or ear and people because it's it's not what they're used to seeing from Tony. Yeah Yeah exactly now. I think another thing that could cause a problem. Is that on the one hand. He said he doesn't WANNA come in with grand plans but on the other he told entertainment weekly that he wants to align himself with two different groups or groups that are close outside the game and a a group of stragglers and then he'll tell both groups he's with them which is a recipe for disaster because it assumes nobody in those groups will be talking to each other and they will be will. This is especially true because he seems to think atom will be straggler. Who doesn't really do the politics outside the Game mm-hmm which tells me he doesn't know damn thing about it? Yeah and that's I think it'd be hard of Tony's issue as well as he's one of those survivor layers who hasn't ingratiated himself into the survivor world. After the game like he hasn't he doesn't go to the fundraisers and he doesn't go to the get togethers which is fine. Nobody has to but he's very separate from that and it's clear what the atom comment that he doesn't know the type of politicking is probably doing has been doing because Adam is involved in all of that and so by keeping himself separated from that. Ah He's going to be missing some of those potential relationships that he could have had because people would actually maybe no the real townie and so it's a real. Tony is more more laid back. Calm like we saw in the interviews. Then if someone's out there playing a game with him NASA Tony they see well. That's the Tony. I know outside of the game so that Tony is that. There's nothing to worry about that Tony but nobody knows at that Tony exists. It could be problem now before we move on from Tony. I do have to mention that. I love Tony or this exchange with Gordon homes. Where Gordon mentioned Chris Underwood's win and Tony? Tony said that was horrible. Man That was gross and then later he added. I can't believe they did that. That just ruined the whole. Oh my God what happened to the concept of have when you're torches snuff. You're dead and of course we've already covered our own thoughts on edge of extinction so tony. Thank you for speaking being from our home state that yes moving onto Tyson as we discussed the earlier. podcast Tyson has probably evolved as a player more than just about anybody else as it stands today. I think he has a great deal of insight into the game and how to play. He certainly hit a speed bump or two along the way especially in hairs versus felons But he's learned from his mistakes as he showed in blood versus water however I think I think he may be underestimating. What other people think of him because he said in one pre game interview? I'm hoping other people see me as a more carefree laid-back Laissez Faire goofball and I think I played that role pretty well I mean. I've got long hair. I kind of don't give a bleep but at the same time. I'm hoping that masks this brain never stops thinking about how to play the game and then he said in another interview I feel like I understand the game better than every player out here and I don't I think people realize that I don't think they know that I'm as good as I am at this game and so I feel like I need to prove that now. Tyson is joking half the time but I don't think he was was in this case. Maybe maybe he was. I don't think he works and the thing is if he really thinks that he was going to hide behind it while Heison is very closely associated associated with Rha. Anyone who has ever listened to him talk about the game will not be fooled by long hair. I know how much he knows about at the game and how good he is and I feel like others do as well and that could really work against I agree. I think that Heison is hoping that he can hide behind hind the that image of that player. But he's that image of that player is long gone for him. I mean that was his first season where you saw the guy goofy long hair. It was run around Naked Tyson that we first met the taste that we now see is someone who is very well studied on a game is clearly clearly very intelligent and that's come across on the television screens but we've all watched him on in so I think that Tyson's approach the they're not gonna see Liam coming never totally going to see him coming but the one thing that Tyson's really got going for him though is again they'd set like ability factor. He's funny and he's he is goofy Any someone that I think people would want to hang out with someone that they would WanNa talk to but I found incredibly interesting the amount of players that were Mike. Tyson's gotta go so. The people are very suspect of him already. And I think they're suspect of him because they've seen both sides of him they've seen this goofball carefree person who is also incredibly strategic in cutthroat and also very good at challenges. So he's he's really got the entire package and he knows how to talk to people and he knows how to be entertaining and if he gets into a final three. He's a great talker so I think that he's his threat. Level is at a different replace than a lot of these players because he is so likable but he's also so strategic and that combination can be very very scary. Yeah I mean and I expect him to be a target now. Maybe he can get together with like Kim and amber tried to make something happen or the other option is he can just point joint at Tony and Sandra and be like really. You're coming after me. Have you seen those one of them has a big giant head right opening up but but he needs to do something fast and he was one of the players who said the game moves faster right from the get over in the returnees season. Meaning you have to hit the ground running in lock up. Your people quickly hit the ground running running. I think it's hysterical that you use that term because he actually was playing the game before the game even started coming up when we mentioned this. That are in our our podcast that we did with rob but just the the rumors that he's spreading about people getting paid two hundred thousand dollars to be on season thirty nine and that other people weren't we're going to be on unless they could also be paid two hundred thousand dollars through like some weird telephone call from a friend to this person. Incredible like I've got to give him props for war coming up with ways to play the game by utilizing information that didn't happen in a game and this is the type of stuff that Tyson is really really good at which is is why he's very very scary. Yeah and by the way if there was any doubt about Tyson knowing what he's talking about when it comes to survivor. We just need to look at this quote from one of his interviews when he said. That's why Ozzy can't win. He doesn't learn from his past mistakes. He doesn't change his game. Which of course is something that I have said many? You're right David you're right and Tyson clearly did changes game and we saw what he saw him just improve immensely Ensley and by the time he played the third time it was. It was an incredible feat. I mean he did such a great job and really laid the game very very incredibly. Meanwhile on all just across the board and so I do think that he someone that is not going to be coming in undetected. He's got a very very big target on his back but again if the big meat shields all come together mealy he'll be safer while maybe but speaking speaking of people who could be in trouble next up is Wendell. If the bigger older school names are not the primary target well then Wendell easily could be and even if you find a good lines to get him through that he's GonNa have to play a very different game. I don't think he's GonNa find another dominic and he's certainly certainly not going to find people. He can control as easily as the two of them controlled players go style. I agree entirely. I think is going to be in a difficult spot. He's not in the same type of spot as nick because he's a new player but I think he is in a difficult spot being a new player and being the player that we saw I mean he was. It's just that all calm and collected guy who managed to make things happen without people really knowing that he was making those things happen and it was just such a smooth smooth way to play the game and win the game that I think everyone is going to be very suspicious of Wendell. Because that's how he wins. The game is by being that smooth calm and Ooh I guy I think he's. He's going to be in trouble with this people. Yeah now one thing that he does have going for him is he never backstabbed his true partner. Art now part of that is because it was really never opportunity now maybe he can use that to his advantage because we talked about the whole loyalty the thing and then another just overall personality you know you and I both met him a couple times and I think we can both have tested. Just how cares. Man He is. He's so likeable. Such a nice guy and really comes across his incredibly genuine but again I think for Wendell if people saw him on screen. They're not going. We know that that is how they'll just isn't real life. Unless they've met Wendell in real life that really is who he is but when you put him in game mode to play with people like like this it might make them suspicious again because that's how he is charismatic. He's likable. He's Nice. They might think he's playing unless they know they'll outside right so the question is will what's going to happen with him and Ralph a very good question I'm going to say he makes it to the merge and maybe a little little after that but I don't think it'll be much more than that. Yeah I mean I think he has the ability to hang in there longer than next for shore. Excuse me in trouble. But I think that part of his ability to last is going to be his charm and if he's more willing mm to let the old school players kind of take the reins and do what they wanna do and kind of follow along with them that could certainly benefit him because he's not going to then come across as necessarily controlling the game and maybe he could pull off another Wendell type move where he makes things happen without making it look like is making things happen. I think he in one of his interviews talked about kind of almost like bowing down to rob like. Oh Yes Boston rob your incredible. I WANNA listen to all do whatever you say in Attempt to then back Sabra later. So he might just abusing people's Egos to benefit himself. which would be great if it wasn't of course these are all we don't know we're guessing but it's a all right and now we come to the last member of this tribe and that would be you'll and there's another one where I was GONNA say it'll be interesting to see how he does because he seems to have very few connections Sion's with the other players but then we have the whole nick and Michelle thing that we talked about already which seem rather odd combination as I mentioned earlier? We don't really know what that means. Did they talk a lot. They exchange if you messages and agree to work with each other. Nothing like that has ever binding. I have no doubt you'll will abandon those to if he needs to do think that it's interesting. He did mention nick as being one of the people that he wanted to play with so he didn't go into the hall. I have freedom alliance with him but he mentioned him as one of the people that he would align with he also is interested in aligning with Sandra. which I think is fascinating because they're much different dynamics in the way that they approached the game I think with? You'll what I what I find. I'm so interesting. I don't even know if I probably already said that three times. But he's such a nice guy and when he played his season he really did dominate. But he it was very respectful in in just really likeable. And he's interested in playing with Wendell and Jeremy Easson it. Could you imagine that four just for these. It's like the Nice Guy Alliance all of these people that are just really likeable. Really Nice people but then you will sat in his interviews. That he's it's no-holds-barred. Oh hold bar this time. And and he's GonNa play completely different than you did before because he doesn't feel like he has constraints like he did with his season which was a season based on ultra and and divided by race. And so he was. He was feeling constrained because he needed to represent his race and here. He doesn't feel that he needs to do that. So I'm curious is to see if he's really going to be able to kind of break away from that and show us a you'll that we haven't seen before even though he seems to be gravitating towards the likes of Wendell and Jeremy Ethan but then also throwing Sandra poverty ourselves it who knows it'll be it'll be interesting to watch. Yeah I I mean. You're looking back at his game and win. Obviously I remember how he controlled the game without appearing to do so. He denied being the puppet master but he was pulling a lot of the strings even even when decisions were apparently made by consensus. He took advantage to push that decision. So for example when Penner Flip you will saw that ozzy was forming forming a budding alliance with nate. So he convinced penner to make voting out nate a condition of his flip and then as he had to go along with it later it was a group group decision by the four. Vote Out Penner. But you'll use that to make a deal with Adam. Adam Adams jury vote you know. While while he held held onto his alliance the hallway he was also ensuring everyone within that lines was comfortable and like you said it was a nice guy. He made them feel like he was they they. We're part of the process. He subtly manipulated situation so nobody wanted to jump ship. Even though it might have been a better option for some now can you. Can you do that with a bunch of winners or do you need to be more aggressive like he said. I think it's probably the last I agree. I think that you will definitely going to have to come out of his shell. All in present a sign of him that no one has seen before which could could work to his benefit. Because if they're all expecting this other you'll and then maybe maybe that's what he presents but then he's actually playing a different game behind the scenes so if he can kind of in an underhanded fashion that they don't necessarily realizes this is happening he could do very well if he's able to manipulate people the same way that he did in his previous season. But he's going to be much more hot throat about it and it's going to be a little more aggressive so I I'm fascinated to see the type of you will that we get this season. I'm very very intrigued. Now as a flip side kind of a counterpoint to that I will say that in his season he kinda let himself fade into the woodwork behind some of the bigger our personalities so when there was a discussion about getting rid of someone before the finals for example his name didn't even and so you it does he. Maybe he does want to replicate that instead of trying to be more aggressive because it he'll come into the game as a legend of sorts. But he's also with Sandra Seri. Sarah Tony Enticing. In the early goings of his tribe. So maybe fading back in the beginning isn't such a bad idea now and if he is able to make connections blend all the two of them can nice guy everybody to death on your drive. It'll be fun to watch. Yeah now I want to say you know much like with Tyson if there were any doubt about whether I still like you'll. He made a comment very similar similar. Saying in some cases I think people really evolved their game ozzy not so much the guy has one way of playing. He plays it very well. But it's not a winning strategy a there you go again another another another guy after my own heart fun all all right well before we go onto the blue tribe. Let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsors if there are any in your area if not we'll be back even quicker we're back so let's let's go on to the blue tribe and start with some guy named I know some guy named Adam. Yeah I mean I almost don't want to say anything about at him even though I met him a few times. I've played blackjack with them. I've had discussions with them. That pales in comparison to the amount of time you spent with him so I kinda just want. aww Here's the thing. Adam is one of those winners that nobody saw coming. I think everyone who was out there playing that season with him with me. It didn't expect Adam to do as incredibly well as he did. He's very smooth in the way that he plays the game and he's also oh not so much in your face but he has a complete understanding of how the game is played what people are doing and what moves will benefit himself but also help those people feel like they're benefiting themselves at the same time. He's he's very aware of all of those things that are happy. The name was very impressive to watch because he knew what decisions to make regardless of the outcome that it had. If it means somebody else feel like they're game was improving and it was still beneficial to him freight cool. Let's do that without necessarily making it. Seem like he was the one making all the decisions. I'm very impressed with Adam I I loved playing with him. I'm sad that they never showed us actually play together and the one thing I will say about Adam that he was someone who I immediately knew I wanted it to play the game with like once he and I were on the same tribe together. I knew I'm like Adams going to be my guy because he just has this thing about him. He's a very very conversational is easy to talk to easy to connect with but also has such a great understanding of the Comes across in the way that he speaks concern. I Have Adam is everyone knows. He's a superfan on millennials versus Gen X.. Nobody knew he was a superfan in. He hid that that even though you could listen to him speak and you knew the understanding of the game. Nobody knew he was such a Super Fan. All of these people now Adams achiever fan and they know that he studied this game and that could potentially be a problem for him. Yeah now I mentioned Shen on the that roundtable podcast. I was on that and I also brought it up earlier. That one thing that could help him is that your season may have been known kind of by most viewers at for trust clusters and the pendulum strategy and it was really loyalty that won the day for him and that it might be a key this season another key could be that he knew in your season when into let the threats duke it out and went to actively take aim at them and so you know if he can do that now step back when the the big big guns are firing at each other. I think that's the best way to play this but I have the very same concern but you do. Because he's he's he's a superfan and we saw the way Boston rob treated the superfan on all stars. Boom see okay so I guess some of the others might try to pull him in just so they can use promo way but honestly I have a good feeling. I think he'll be able to make it past the merger pretty deep into the game and I hope he does. I would love to watch Adam go deep in this game. I don't think he's going to have the same potential issues as nick is going to have this kind of being starstruck. I think he'll be able to control that component of himself. While but I do I do just worry that there is this perception that he will be someone who is so. Well studied that some of the old. What's will players might be intimidated by that? They might think of. This kid knows more about me than I know kind of thing. He's also one of the youngest players out here here. Which by he's twenty nine for God's Sakes? I love the fact that this that all of these players are older individuals. I think is great but there I know. He's got relationships with people who had played the game before and that might work to his BENEFA- only one person said that they really wanted to work with Adam. And that was Ethan. Then because he's kind of relying on need someone of news full era to help me get through this game so he could use that to his benefit with someone like Ethan so I I do really hope that. It doesn't hurt him it. Because he's such a fan of this he really does have a great understanding of it and I don't think when he gets enough credit for the game that he laid inland versus gen-x because he really knew exactly who needed to get to the end with and how to get there and he did it in a in a manner that was kind of unexpected and no one saw it coming and then all of a sudden he was there and it was Adam. I'm sitting with Hannah and Ken. Everyone was like well out of wins so I have a lot of respect for him and I do hope that he can fulfil his dream art. His dream was plane. Survivor and part of his dream was getting to come back and play on all winter season so clearly. That's happening. That dream also included him winning. We'll see if it does but I don't know if if he would be able to make it all the way to the end but I do hope that he goes all right well. Next up is a Another newer winner. And that of course would be ben again when I was on the That roundtable podcast. We discussed a bit about how I think. A lot of people forget certain things about Ben. They remember the idol fines. The Ben Bombs the stuff of that nature but all that happened at the end when he needed needed them before then he made alliances. He brought two of those alliances together. He put himself in a good position until his alliance realized. It was too good at position and they turned on him which is why he needed all those idols. Yeah I think Ben's tential hurdle is going going to be the recency of his game just as we talked about all of the other more recent players but I also think that something that Ben brings to the table able is loyalty. Even though all of that stuff happened at the end she was being taken out by his own alliance and so that caused him to have to shift his game game and how he approached his game and he really wants to change that facet of himself in this season he wants to show that I can make it to the end with somebody. I don't have to be fighting alone in the end and I think that's going to bode well for him in a group of more old school players. Who have who might be taking that same approach approach that we're going to form a bond you and I the two of us the three of us? WE'RE GONNA try to run this game. That could really that could go. Places for manatees able to find minds that other half or that other third in order to do that with and he did say interviews that he wants like a Wendell and dominic relationship nation ship and to rely more on her social game who to prove that he belongs there. I just don't know that he's going to get this season. As a matter of fact I expect the producers to throw all sorts of things at them to keep them out of the comfort zone not in a comfort zone like he wants but you know he he did tell Gordon homes because he thinks others will see him as a threat he wants to keep around the other threats like rob. Tony Jeremy and Wendell I so. So we're we're back to this whole meet shield idea and I guess that plan could work early. If the idea of Brett's banding together manages to get off the ground but I just think it's doomed to disaster later when the others eventually poss- him aside because while he's not one success and that's where I think it's going to hurt him. The most is that it's kind of like you're you're better off. What is the devil that you know versatile that you don't and if if if there's players out there who I understand that layer better because that player came from an era? When I played survivor they might be more comfortable going with that? Layer as opposed is the Ben. Ben showed how great he is at finding idols. And how great he is laying them and also there's a whole fire making thing uh-huh so so I do think that there are parts of Ben that could come across as being very scary and very threatening because he also has a presence about him. That is a little more in your face and might come across as little more aggressive. Just because that's been and it if it's misconstrued as being someone who is is potentially trying to take things over or trying to take control then it might not bode well with someone like rob who was on the tribe with him and rob. It didn't seem to be interested in working with the likes of Bin. But you've got Jeremy who wants to work with them so it all depends. I think on who comes together. In in what types types of characteristics are presented early on and and then I think Ben could potentially sneak in there but he's he's gotTa have some issues with being so recent and having those van bombs be part of what he's known for all right. Well now we can move on to Danny and I have to say. Dan's bit of mystery. I get much out of her entertainment weekly interview. I didn't get much out of my old interview with her. From after she won she played so close to the vest that there just wasn't much to talk about it seems and because of that fix she's going to be in a position Shen where either people will ignore her first or if they're thinking in reverse as we discussed they could target her early I think the latter I think research that will be targeted early. I've got great concerns for her because she is someone that is such an unknown and her season was kind of an Odd One Justin. How was how was played and how she ended up fighting her way to the end even though she was always kind of on the else so I just just a feel like she was so under the radar in her season and still is under the radar because she hasn't ingratiated herself into the survivor world? Either her that she's someone that I think this group will look at it and say I just don't know where she's coming from. I don't know where she's at. I'm not sure what kind of game she's actually going to play. So I don't feel safe. Aligning myself with her working with her. And I think she's going to be an early out. Yeah I mean don't get me wrong. I don't want anyone to misconstrue she. She did a great job of scheming on. It's just that she did it in such a way that they think the other players will be hard pressed to remember her too much of what you did. And now if that is the case then they may not bother with her first and and if she can align herself with a few other early like the niece and Michelle and maybe ethan an atom she could stick around for a while but if you yeah I don't know if she will if she does she could become dangerous but like you said. I don't think that it's it's again. It's that unknown factor. It goes back to the thing. I just said the devil that you know versus devil that you don't in this is going to be a group of people that are are trying to figure out what type type of player you're going to be this season but they're also going to be remembering things that you did in previous seasons in kind of making that assessment and make next termination and yet danny. She clearly did a phenomenal job in her season. Because she she clawed her way up from the bottom I mean she really did. She had to fight to win but she even acknowledges the fact back. She kept her game so secretive. Even production didn't even know what she was doing half the time that's scary. That's definitely scary. And if anybody knows that that she's able to hide her game from production than yes she can hide her game from everyone. She's playing with so. I think I think if people are cognizant that and remember that that's Danny did she's going to. It's going to be very difficult for Danny. Yeah Yeah I agree and and then we move on to another person who is not in a very dissimilar situation. That would be denise you know we just discussed how Danny would a probably do best to align with the knees but denise told. Et Canada that talking about herself saying she's a crappy liar. Sucks being being sneaky which you know not usually something you hear from a survivor you know. She wants to pair up with someone. Who is Sarah or Sandra? Neither of whom are on her starting tribe. So does she consider Danny to be sneaky enough to pair up with. I mean I guess we'll see but much like any. She has a quiet quiet way about her and might be able to fade into the background. She told Gordon homes that nobody thinks she's a big strategic player so she wants to lean into that. AH playing more strategically without people knowing the problem with that is will I how you do it you know. How are you more strategic without people knowing and second? How did you get votes at the end if you do succeed in fooling everyone because as the rule says? Don't keep your scheming to secret right. And here's here's the thing that denise has going for her not only does she want to line of people you mentioned she also talked about our body as well and interestingly early enough harvey also wants to align herself with Denise Adam wants to align himself with Denise Anne did mention Denise Michelle mentioned denise. His niece's name seem to be coming up quite a bit in Who people want to align with and? I think I could be wrong about this. Obviously we're guessing gene hall of this but I think the biggest component that denise has working for her is the loyalty factor. I mean she and Malcolm were such a tie I do well and she really was able to play such an incredible social game that every tribal council she went to even if she was on the bottom autumn. She was the only person from her tribe. After a swab on a new tribe and she didn't get voted out she was able to create on's form connections and played a social game. That allowed her to stay all the way to the end and allowed people to flip on each other in order to keep her in the in the final three and take Malcolm how come out four all of that. It was based on her social abilities in the game. Which I think in this group of people is going to be key in staying in the game and lasting in the game and pulling off those more underhanded moves that people don't necessarily see coming and everyone seems to really WanNa work with to me so if if people wanNA work with are they're not going to be voting out or voting for her I? Obviously they're gonNA WANNA keep her around. I think nieces going to kill it out there. I really really do. She's my winner pick. I'm very impressed with yes. I'm very impressed with denise disabilities here because she is not one of the main gene targets that everybody's looking at but she someone that everybody wants to work with and I like that. Yeah and if an alliance among those people works she could be around for a while. If the big targets band together she could be toast early. I mean it's it's this is a hit or miss kind of thing. I mean you look at this tribe. You've got one two three four five six only ever played the game once and other the other four have played more than more than once a week wisit Not yet the other four played more than once so it all depends on who comes together and she's one of those one time players but she's clearly someone at poverty was so desirous of getting to work with the Nissan wanting to be denise Denise Herreid did I I love that I love the denise poverty is writer. I think that's great all right. Well are you gonNA Apologize. Denise Denise for nursing her you know backwards. I'm so sorry denise when you lose this it was totally my fault. It's the butterfly effect. We've established I'm terrible at predictions and everybody that I picked to win except J. T.. which was years and years and years ago on his first season he was my winter pick? And that's the only time I've ever been right so I'm sorry. Please prove me wrong. Please there you go all right. Well next up we have Ethan and if I were picking my winner based on pure emotion instead of attempted opted logic. He brings nostalgia but also just the fact that he's alive and well and playing survivor again is sure I mean he was never the biggest schemer and plotter. You Know He. He schemed about as much as was necessary. Nothing more and normally boy. Those are the people that I aim for but still really like Oh. He's he's so likable and he is such a great presence about him in you watch him in his interviews. This is someone that I think is going to make others feel comfortable in talking to them. I think there's going to be more of an interest in even because he is so old all as one of the very early seasons and I think that's going to cause people to want to talk to him and want to form form bonds with him just because there is that factor about him but I am hoping that he's able to understand the game that is now being dean played and he seems very cognizant of the fact that he's that's not the game he ever played. He didn't play with twists and with idols. And all of these these nuances that are being introduced. So that's why he was gravitated towards someone like an atom so Adam could help him understand and I think that would be a great dynamic. You'll if those two together that would be really incredible. Oh Yeah I mean. I think that the other players will probably leave him alone for a little while if only due to the S. Taljaare and his prior illness but the threat radars gonNA come up if he gets too close and Ethan told entertainment weekly I don't I think it's fair to weaponize my cancer and use it against me. Well I got news for you. Even you may not agree but all's fair and and I can definitely she people talking about that. If he gets back story is something that people are very aware of. I mean you look at someone like Adam. We didn't know Adams back story until he. I was sitting there in the final three and he told us the story about his mom which was horrific and sad an awful but it wasn't something that caused us to swear one way or the other. We were all on the atom train at that point. But someone like Ethan is walking in with a story that everybody knows uh-huh everyone is very aware of and you hear it all the time when people are determining who they want to sit in the final three with they got a hell of a story you know. They've got a great story story and he's he's gotten incredible story he's survived. I mean he literally survive so I think letting him get too close as is going to be problematic visit. He's he's sitting there in the end he he's GonNa win. Yeah and so I mean he he wants to bring it back to trust and loyalty and we've already talked about that. That might be a good idea. I just don't think there's any way he can make it to the end but if he finds a way to pull it off I'll I'll stand up and Absolutely so all right well moving on. We have Jeremy Jeremy and as we discussed earlier projects. Jeremy was another player who improved greatly between his first and second time I he went from targeting the big threats to walking and using the threats and he told. Et Canada plans to play the same as he did in his winning season to him. That means keeping people like Rob Tyson Tony around as meat shields. Plus Ethan's a loyal person and he will have Robin Ethan around but he's going to have to go hunting if he wants to find someone else like maybe poverty would fit the bill in the early going. And then depending on what the rest of the tribe wants to do he could he could end up finding himself in the swing vote role deciding whether they target get the big names or work with the bigness. He's he's such a tough read because he's one of those players that you really. I did see a completely different person when he played the second time. He learned a lot about what he needed to improve upon and was more relaxed and laid back the second time he played and had a better understanding of the dynamics of the relationships he someone who is very likable someone that I think anyone has a conversation with him. He comes across as being very genuine and someone that is fully listening to you when you're talking to him I mean I've met at the guy and he's just he has this thing about him in and you can't get past that that could be dangerous. Obviously because if he's if he's so likable then our people necessarily going to let him get to the end. I don't know if they will but if there is this shield idea what he's the perfect issue. Yeah Ah he's also another player. Who says things move fast in an all star season now? He thinks that he can handle it. But maybe the one time players won't now AH we've already talked about that. We think it may they may slow it down but no matter what happens. I don't know where he's is GONNA end up. It's very difficult. I agree it. It all depends on whether his plan works. I feel like his plan won't work but I have have a hard time seeing him. Getting the BOOT early. I think it would only happen. If he gathers all the meat shields and then they just decided they don't need him but even there would probably be closer to the merge so I guess that's I guess that's world put him somewhere around the merge he's one of those people that I'm curious about now with the edge of extinction if they know that the edge of extinction is there if they don't know it's there because everyone is very aware that in order to get back into the game there's going to be some type of challenge and he's someone who could perform very well in the challenge. So do you staff back and put a bunch of people who are really good at challenges onto the edge of extinction because only got one shot to get back in or maybe two on how they do it. I I don't know but he's someone that I could see being a concern concern that if he does end up on the extinction he could potentially come back because of his ability to do well and challenges. So that's I think going to effect where he ends up and nothing all this. Yeah Yeah we'll see. I guess I know it's a tough one on for him. All right so next up is Michelle and when I again when I was on that roundtable podcast outcast. One thing we all said about Michelle was that we thought she wanted to prove that she deserved it and then I think it was the very next day that entertainment weekly's interview with her came out titled Tale Fitzgerald wants to prove she deserved. So Yeah So good prediction on in the interview. She said I like to think. I think they underestimate me. If you're looking at everybody's resume I'm probably one of the lesser threats which is great such a great advantage for me because I'm a very different person than I. It was twenty four year old beauty tribe. Michelle and I'm ready to play a much different kid so if they're underestimating underestimating me. That gives me flexibility to play more boldly without looking like I'm playing to bolt. I can fly a little bit under the radar and make moves without all their alarm bells going off right at the gate. I'm hoping that unperceived a little less threat. which could cause it to be a huge that exactly? Yeah I mean the thing that she is so good at obviously as social game. She is very good at forming relationships in bonds and disconnecting with people. There are some of the bear name older players that mentioned they were interested in working with the likes of Michelle but it was always in kind of a she can be my little sister kind of relationship so I think that she's being viewed as someone that can be taken along like. Oh she's someone that I can. I can mold and I can work with and make you do the things that I want. And if that's not what she ends up doing if she presents herself south differently to them then I think she's going to find yourself in a tough spot. Yeah and and then it comes back to what you already mentioned. And we've been talking about is if you're less threatening are more. Because she even said in her interview these are super fans out here too and they have their finger on the pulse of what's happening in these returning seasons which by trend seemed to be taken over by under the radar players if that's their mindset going in then my ship ship might be sunk before I even leave and so she recognized. She's whether she saw herself. She's listening to podcast cast. Whatever she's doing she recognized the same thing and so the real thing is though? Are there more threatening less threatening people interesting. Some of the less threatening people are there some more threatening ones so I I think there are so she might not even be targeted right away among and that's true I mean I think between g and Danny I think Danny is going to be in name much more difficult situation. I do think that the fact that people wanna work with Michelle will allow her to stay along or be around for a a little bit longer as long as she lays that same role which she doesn't WanNa play. We saw her play it already in the season that she was on where she was being gene. That little sister and I need your help and show me what to do. And she doesn't WanNa play that game but maybe she'll recognize that so she has to do at least before she can really kind of take. Things is over our footing so she can form the relationship she needs to make. I hope she recognizes that and I hope that that's what we ended up seeing Michelle because it would would be nice for someone like Michelle fail to come out of this and go see. I really did deserve to in my see. I told you that I deserved when my season and look what I did here but yes I do see her as as thinning. That mold of someone who you don't expect to win a season like this and they end up winning and everyone's like where A.. And she sees that yeah and now she did say she plans to go and playing completely flexible. Which I think is good and she is in a position where I think she can put herself out there as a pawn in the early goings? If that's what she wants to do. She also recognizes something and that has been discussed on Rha P by a number of people which is my biggest weakness is that is that because I one. I'm not necessarily be aware of when the tide shift and in particular when they might switch on me so because I've never experienced that active being blindsided and voted out myself. I feel like it's a huge weakness for me to not know exactly when that could be happening for me. People who have been voted out before they've seen what it's like and they know the feeling ruling and they can pick up on. I do think that's what will eventually happen to her. I think she'll she'll let herself used as a pawn for a while but at some some point people are going to decide. She's outlived her usefulness and toss her aside I think that point is probably after the merge but before it's too deep in the game so I'm I'm looking at eight thirty. I do agree with that assessment. Because you do. Because that's the way she's already being discussed by people who WanNa work with our they're describing it and just that fashion like I will essentially use her for as long as I need to and then you know she's no one's rider di. She's no one's ride is. She is a vote than I can utilize because I think and I can. I can mold her and get her to do what I want her to do. All right next up we have natalie and I don't really you have much to say about Natalie because to me. She may be the biggest unknown coming into the season in terms of strategy. Not just for myself but for the other players I mean. She's physically strong. But and we know she was smart enough to outwit the others on San Juan del Sur. But let's face it. After Jeremy was voted out by Arizona allies. Most of them were not exactly strategic geniuses. After I recently watched parts of the season I was reminded. Just how bad people like Keith. Wes Alec and others were at playing the game when I love about her though is how in your face. She was in that season. It was to really convince the other tribe to vote someone out. Because you're shouting shouting at them and telling them why you should vote John out because he's an all of the things. She was screaming about him and then they voted him out. I really have to give her props props for that. Because that's a ballsy. Move to tell the other tribe who they need to vote out and why is insist something. You don't see happen on survivor. The fact that she did that and I think the reason why Natalie played the game the way that she did was because of her sister she her sister was gone so it was kind of like. That's it I'm the angry and I need to. I need to do this for my sister. I have to fight for my sister and it lit a fire under her and it made her do things that were a little bit out of the norm. And things you don't see a lot of survivor players do but yes you are correct in your assessment of people. She was playing with not necessarily strategic geniuses but she he does deserve props for her ability to use them to her advantage. And get worse you needed to go. I mean Jeremy said it she owned you. She owned everything she she stepped out but she did it and she brought it and she really did so. I think that the concern I have for Natalie is if she is too in your face with this group of people. Is that something that they wanNA keep around. Because it's a shield or is that something that they just don't WanNa be bothered with I. I'm not sure like I don't know. Oh how this group is going to perceive someone that might be a little overly aggressive but then again she might walk into the game not be the same way because she is playing this on her own without being another half of you know with her sister right now the thing is she. I don't think she's connected to anybody body else except but she is lucky. Lucky enough to be on the same as which may keep her safe. Initially I feel like as soon as she swapped away from him. She's an easy target to get picked off so I don't think she's GonNa make the murder. I think that's interesting and I could see that being the case. Yes I I. I do. Think that her if she is too aggressive then you have a I see her. Having difficulty forming those really early relationships thinks she needs to create in order to keep herself around past the merge. Yeah all right well someone who we we have a little bit more to say to talk about is next up. And that's poverty. And she is seen by many as one of the top players which puts her in the upper echelon parts also but she's also in the upper echelon of people who can charm the hell honor people. There has been described by number of her fellow players. Over the years in her second and third seasons she also showed some excellent strategic moment such as double idle play and here's versus villains to save her ally and knocked out a hero and and since she she's been in to return e season's already she knows how they go oh and how to properly play them for example after her win she told me in an interview. I was separating friendship and strategy and not making any decisions based on emotions. I was making them rationally and methodically and planned out everything and stuck to it. I definitely was able to separate the game from my friendship and then she did the same thing in heroes vs villains never letting her emotions interfere in game decision to vote somebody out. It didn't matter if she knew them well. Outside the game had been potential allies ally of theirs at hung out with Emma loved ones reward. If they were in her way they were gone and that kind of game play is going to be necessary here. And she's he's more well equipped to do it than some of the offer shore and can I just say how excited I am to see her and Boston. Rob Play together. Think this'll be This'll be fun to you. Watch because they're going to be together right from the start and I am. I'm excited because they both seem to really want to play with each other in kind of a weird way because I think they both understand how big the target is on their back and I think they're both of the same mindset that I need to keep the bigger target around to try to people keep people's eyes off of me but her ability to really get people to connect with her. She's is very charismatic. And someone who a Michelle I think would fall for. I really do think she would. And this was that relationship outside about with Michelle. I mean that's it's the type of relationship Wants to have with Michelle and she wants to work with Denise which I think is also great for denise because she wants to have that relationship with her and I she's the one survivor player that seems to have an uncanny ability to form bonds with people. That aren't really unexpected and and get people to do things that you would. You're just kind of shocked. I mean the things that she in Russell Hansen ended up when they were working together and he was handing her idols and doing things for her. And obviously it was to benefit his game but she formed a relationship with one person. Nobody wanted nobody you know. Nobody trusts it. Nobody wanted to have a relationship with and that was the guy that she went to like. That's the guy I'm gonNA. He's he's going to be the other half so it's it's a it's a scary way to to play the game but she's very good at it and so I think that that ability to form those relationships or her will help her last in this season despite the fact that she's he's played such a great game multiple times. I still think she's going to offer our while. Yeah I mean like you said. She sided to align with Russell. Nobody else knew and it makes me wonder if she'll try something similar this time going with players that are lesser known in her tribe. Like maybe Abyan Natalie and Ben you know she. She did mention that people may not know. She has a relationship with Sophie outside the game but since they aren't on the same tribe she's going to need to make it through at least swap if not the merge for that matter the question comes up once again as to whether people will be going after the big targets or trying to join up with them to use as meat shields even if they are targeting them. I think poverty conduct the first bullet. Because she's on a tribe with and if she couldn't didn't if she could avoid being voted out I that could give her the time she needs to gain a phone right and I think that if she catches wind that the the larger players are being targeted. I I bet you anything. She's GonNa do everything in our power that target directly over on raw not. That rob wouldn't do the same having to amber but I am saying to poverty but I do think that she would have the ability to pull that off better than he was. Yep I agree so speaking of Rob. He's next up and I believe he is last on this tribe. So as I said about Sandra earlier well what is there more to say about him. I mean I don't think there's a chance in hell. He can win. I don't don't think he'll make the merge unless it's through edge of extinction but if he can convince the other big threats to stick together and they pull in a few newer players that could be legitimate. God Not enough to win because those players aren't GonNa be as dumb as the ones in all stars who let Robin Amber Forget the end but it could still be fun if you if by some miracle he does get to the end then they have much like Sam. I think that rob is as a person that has really he really has turned survivor into a career. This is the sixth time being out there. And he's someone who I mean literally wrote a book Labor so so I do think that he's someone that everyone is very aware of and if he can get get his flooding I think he's GonNa hang in there for a bit but yes. I think this group of people understands the closer we let Boston rob gets to the end. The more scary the prospect of his winning becomes. Because that's the type of player that lost is he. He manages to bowl things off into make things happen has a great understanding of the game and his surroundings and the people were part of those surroundings. Just listening cleaned him in interviews was fascinating because like Gordon homes would ask him a question and he would throw Gordon homes often two seconds. I don't know if you notice that like Gordon Holmes. Asking asking me very direct question and he'd be like only been married you know and like just completely wrong legally flip the the topic to try to get away from the question if he and I think there's something he doesn't the game he he gets people's focus on something else instead of on him. Let's focus on a different topic. Let's talk about something about you in order and keep the target off of him. Unfortunately the targets already on him because all of these people know him so if he's able to pull it off would be. It'd be mind blowing but I I think edge of extinction is the thing that throws all of this into a whirlwind because if he ends of unagitated sanction his chances of winning comeback in increase ace. And let's say he's the Chris Underwood of this season and comes back at the very end. I don't know how you don't give it to him. If he comes. In fact the very end he wasn't playing the game the same reason they shouldn't be given crocheting agree with that. I totally agree with that. I hope that this cast feels the same way but edge of extinction doesn't say you're the winner because you're Boston robbing managed to get back in there. You are in the final three but who knows Knows yeah now one thing I have to mention and this is just kind of side cake but because I find it incredibly funny is when I was looking back at interviews in the light and a Tailwind Woodruff interviewed rob for me after his heroes vs villains. Dylan's loss and she was he. I don't remember why she did the interview for me. Maybe maybe we had to split up the interviews at that point because I usually did the interviews even for the finale but for whatever reason she did it for me and he was lamenting to her. How the game had changed? He said before if you were helpful around camp or a physical asset to your team that used to be valued it seems instead a lot of the new school players are simply about strategy and keeping their alliance strong so yeah that's right. He was complaining about quote unquote new school survivor players. Ten years. Oh okay then on top OPPA that he was actually listed in my what survivor heroes and villains should have learned article as one of the first people to do exactly exactly what he is saying is quote unquote new school within that article. I I had noted an earlier example was hunter and Marquess. He was a hard working and likable guy. Hi and tribe full of ladies. That meant he had to go. So that of course was referencing. Rob Acting against hunter and then later expanded more on the point saying. Let's see if I can still pronounce try. Mara MOU definitely went against the advice to keep the strong and the weak with the vote against hunter. Why why because rob figured it was better to have people who would listen to him and quote? Fear him rather than strong people in the tribe so Russell was was just following the example that rob himself set and of course this plays into what we see. Almost every season with some player going on lamenting how much survivor survivor has most recently. We heard it from Nora talking about how everyone just cares about strategy now instead of working and but even when rob was complaining about it ten years ago he was still wrong. Because that's the way it's really and this just puts a fine point on it so I had to bring that up because I find it. So this is the great thing about having your computer and your ability to go back and look at all your notes from previous seasons Alumna. Yeah so yeah so there we have You know robs thoughts on that. Well I do think that the rob and Amber Combo is what makes rob and amber the most interesting two out of I think everyone. WHO's on the season because they're married for God's sakes and so I just to me I? I don't know if that's going to be a benefit for the two of them or just an automatic attic issue right away. One of them's got to go immediately. And it's kind of frustrating. I think if I were you know rob or amber. I'd be frustrated with the fact that my spouse is here because my spouse is here. It's going to hurt my game so that'll be interesting. There was a choice they made. That was a decision made and there are there are pluses and minuses. You know it it it comes up anytime you have a a reality show where two people are close with. You know it can work both ways in this case. I think it's definitely well. Let me put this way if rob had come by himself. He still been a huge target. If Ambrose had come by herself she would not have been as big so more more than anything. Rob Being there hurts ambitious now amber being there certainly doesn't help prop yeah. I think that I think it's true. Doing is being there is definitely detrimental to hammer. Yeah so all right so there are twenty winners. One of whom will join Sandra's being two-time winner and I say that because as I mentioned I can't see any possibility they let Sandra do it again before we go. And before we wrap start wrapping things up on the why the winners loss. podcast rob asked you who you would write down for a while as the first person to vote off and you said Nope gotta wait for this podcast so here. We are two hours into this podcast. Any I would. You're right. You're right yes I would. I would vote out. I is Dany because I the the thing with she such a sleeper. And this is an. I know that denise is a similar in a similar boat but I think the difference between Denise is there there are some structure to have denise played the game and not that there isn't with. Danny I think Danny is someone who is such an unknown and you really don't know where she's coming from and how she's going to approach the game because her because she kept it so under the radar but still managed to pull out a win. That is very very scary. When you're dealing with such an unknown and I mean the other people you've seen their games you see how they play? Get an understanding of what's important to them. I don't know what's important to Danny can at least look at all of these other players and there's one key thing that I can say okay. This is what they're good at. I know that's what they're good at. And with with Danny. It's it's really such an unknown. I really feel like she's she could be super duper scary. Okay all right well. We talked earlier about how how busy we have been. And at least for me. That will continue because I will be heading out to Los Angeles for the big arch. AP anniversary slash survivor premiere from your party. That's on Wednesday. I hope to see a lot of listeners. There and I may be modeling. The new survivor rules shirt that we hope to have available Yes also I will be the guest on the RHA. BNB for their preseason preseason show in just a few days so we'll be doing that before I head out to La and then of course everybody remember you can get the second printing of the poster at tiny oral dot com slash. David rules both should definitely order. I'm so sad that I don't get to join you in La. I'm so jealous. LSI Don't get to join you in La. It sounds like it's going to be such. An incredible time is going to be so many survivors there so many fans so many people who listened to the podcast cast so. I hope you'll have a great time and it's such an incredible season that I think watching it in a group of people who are huge fans and survivors survivors. Oh it's going to be amazing. You're gonNa such a good time. Yeah I've seen the list of some of the survivors and I'm thinking I really hope they don't remember what I said about. They do they do They probably don't but anyway as we as we wrap up I do want to encourage people to check out the patron program at ROB has website dot com slash patron. Rob has been talking about how. There's no better time to sign up and right now and and I agree you starting brand new patriot. Only show the hour before each episode of survivor starting with episode to you already does at least five patron the only call in shows a month and the most recent patron cast was five hours so and of course patrons trend get first access to live show tickets such as the four that are going on this season at least one of which sold sold out fully to patrons only And you know even for the non-sellouts you get a discount. He also has the facebook groups where you'll find a great community of people you can talk about survivor big brother etc so again. That's ROB has website dot com slash patron and once you get to the facebook groups make sure to say these do and where else can they say hello to us the music a little drink there. You should follow us both on twitter. I'm Jessica Lewis. Eighty Nine and David is at David Bloomberg. You should follow both of us. Snatch one of US follows both than you get conversation on both sides. We both live tweet during the episode's can't wait. Start Live tweeting during this season. It's GONNA be incredible. Got To get my gifts ready. You know come strong but yes again. Is Jessica Lewis Eighty nine and at Bloomberg so follow us both and get involved in the conversation because we have incredible discussions on twitter about the season both during the show after the show and also like I said if you want to order a poster and you are outside of the United States you can. Dm Me and I can make arrangements with youth through twitter. All right you have any ideas for or a Hashtag. Oh my goodness yeah I you know I I really don't all right Let's see here. We we we talked about the the more threatening lesser threats. If you want to make it a a really big Hashtag Geog Hashtag more threatening. I can't even follow that I would be a lot. Yes definitely. We'll see if anyone does that. Well what's the meat shields that seems to be something. Everyone was talking about two. They all want keep shields around. Yeah that's all right. We'll go with the more threatening less threatening threatening more threatening has yes there you go all right. Everyone should make sure you're subscribed to all the R. J. Piece Survivor. PODCAST as the season begins. That's IT ROB has a podcast dot com slash survivor. Or of course just on your favorite podcast we are also on the reality. TV Rahat pups feed need in both places you can find great content like know it alls the return of the wiggle room this weekend survivor the BNB. which again I'll be on shortly and much more and we also need to say thanks Scott saint-pierre who does all of the editing on wide loss and also thanks to welcome America or the incredible thieves on and thanks Hugh David for going through all of this with me and making me do way too much work for the past like week or so? I hope it was enjoyable fraud listeners. We've gone for like two hours at this point and but it was another great podcast and hope you love listening and I can't wait to watch the first episode of winners at war. You're coming this Wednesday. Yeah and thanks to you Jessica. For All the work you put in preparing for this show and preparing for the season and everything everything and will be will be different ends of the continent watching but the We'll we'll Ola. See how it goes and I. I'm sure it will be at least exciting first episode and then we'll see what happens because as we've talked about it could go go a couple of different ways and somehow they'll probably find a third way that we have in sure. Sure and listen. I expect to see quite a few south of you on twitter while you're out in La better make it happen. You can expect him all over twitter okay and on that note. We'll we will talk to everyone in well little bit more than a week after the after I get back from. La Back in our normal time slot. So we'll see you. Then you're feeling Jessica Observer neater around. They'll break down the rule sandwich. Show you playing yourself and gap Bonita This is blank kicks

rob Game Changers Sandra nick Tyson Tyson David Bloomberg Michelle I Jessica US Tony One Sarah Sarah Sophie Boston Kim Jeff probst baseball youtube Fiji Jessica Round Jessica Lewis
Bonus: Survivor Season 40 Finale Discussion

Ready to Be Petty

1:28:30 hr | 1 year ago

Bonus: Survivor Season 40 Finale Discussion

"What's up it's Mojo story and who is ready to be petty? I'm back with another bonus episode of RTP. Where I discussed the recent survivor. Forty finale was superfan penny. We did another bonus episode last year. Discussing the premiere of Hannah's patrons even with Mason and Robin if you're enjoying these deep dives let me know what else you WanNa hear about before we get started. I want to note that although we talk about the finale we are primarily talking about how gender dynamics play out on the show and how they impact the game. We also discuss recommendations for the production of survivor to ensure that the game is fair and equitable for all of its players. We also WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE. That penny nigh both identify as intersectional feminists which means we are fighting for equality regardless of someone's race education sexuality ability or costs we know we all contain multitudes and that your life experiences are based on your multiple identities and how they intermingle we also know that they are compounding forms of discrimination by certain groups of women. We WanNa make sure that the type of feminism we practiced acknowledges our pledge and is inclusive of others one of the limitations of our critique of the show is that it is coming from the perspectives of two white women so we would love to engage in a dialogue about survivor and the recent seasons and it's discussions about gender. So if you have any questions or comments message me on instagram tradition. Face Buck I would love to chat you can find us at RTP podcast on all of those platforms. Okay let's get into the show. Okay I am here with a very very special guest. Who wants to talk about the season? Finale of survivor. Forty welcome penny. Hi Thank you super excited to do this. Good I'm so happy to have you here penny and I just connected over facebook and she wanted to chat about the finale and Gender Dynamics in survivor and I thought it would be a perfect time to chat now. That season forty is wrapped up in survivor. Might be on a pause for the foreseeable future about. I know I don't. That's something I don't think right. How did you get into the show so I started watching when I was fourteen? I WanNa say I was. It wasn't the first season I know. A lot of people watched like the first either up until now or are they watched like the first and second then they just stopped i. I'm pretty sure I wasn't allowed to watch when it first started and I ended up being really into the game. The sins and this is a bit of a long story but I'll keep it short. Basically I discovered online in the students community. People were like recreating survivor within the Sims. So actually really into that without ever watching the show and then I basically was reading through all the descriptions of the challenges and stuff and I was like. I should watch this show so I watched Russell Hansen season season nineteen survivor Samoa. Yeah was my first season and I know people have a lot of mixed views on Russell Hansen. But for someone who just started watching he was a really engaging character and it was very interesting season to start with and then it was immediately followed by heroes versus villains which is like one of the greatest seasons ever so it was like a perfect intro into survivor. And I've been watching almost every season sense. I think the season after that that I haven't watched was the fans versus favorites too. Just couldn't get into it but other than that. I've watched almost every season. That's amazing. Yeah I got really really into it and then I kind of had a that like you said you couldn't get into answers as favorites too. I kind of had a period where I wasn't watching like during university and stuff like that but then like weirdly got back into it because of my parents who watch it and then like it's been nonstop since then so. I think I restarted watching around. I think it was tastes in season. So win so twenty seven. I believe I'm not as it seems like you really know all your seasons and when we were we were chatting before discussing what we wanted to talk about today and it was like well. She knows her stuff I casual. That's the other thing is like survivor. I'm always like embarrassed to bring it up that it's a TV show that I still watch but It used to be way more quiet about it. I think I may be mentioned it to one person before like my adult life and then I I started dating my current boyfriend and I was watching it. No Mirror we went because we traveled a lot and I think one day he just started watching with me and he was like this is kind of interesting and so I was like. Oh yeah you know. I watched survivor so the point that now I think like maybe a year ago auditioned for the show. I went to one of the open calls and I was just so excited about it that I kept posting it on social media and a surprising amount of people were like. Oh that's really cool and I was like I should really like ask around more people watch it and I just got super into it this past year and I got really into the read it that talks about it and just got a little bit obsessive. Yeah Yeah I feel that way too. I I've also been posting about it more on social media and it's surprising you're right like how many people actually do watch the show lake. I posted something on my instagram stories. And like people from that is met throughout my life like in different cities and different friend groups and stuff like that. We're responding back to me of like Like it was like a Bingo sheet tape thing and it was really fascinating of how people actually a lot more people than I thought like like watching the show and I think we're kind of in like this Renaissance Period of survivor. Where at least for this season that I found a lot of people either coming back because it was a returning player and winner season but also because there hasn't been a lot of live like sports or like other competition shows do the current a virus. So I feel like we're also getting this influx of new watchers. Definitely definitely I know There's another show the challenge on MTV. That I mentioned to you and I like to describe it as like survivor. But with TRASHIER PEOPLE. It's basically people from the real world and it's basically like MTV's version of survivor but they get to live in a house and they drink a lot of alcohol and you know they all are having their own thing but this season that's happening right. Now was the first season where they had someone from survivor. It was j from Gen-x like a perfect fit but everybody loved him so actually a lot of people who watch the challenger now watching survivor either. So there's kind of crossover happening there which is cool. Yeah I love that. And you're right. It is kind of like a seamless transition for survivor. People to be on a show like the challenge and like the amazing race and big brother. Like we've seen kind of some people that can crossover and Yeah that's a show that I really should get into. I remember watching a few seasons in high school and like essentially when the real world was really big and so it's not something I've kept up with but I do love the light cult following and stuff that it has. It's definitely become way more about the athletic competition like when it first started. It was all about the drama and the drinking and partying but at this point. I mean you really can't be on the show if you're not a serious athlete like all of them. Spend the offseason training really timeline. So it's it's definitely changed a lot. It's almost like they edit it to be like an action movie sometimes. Like it's then Natalie our girl not by for the TV. She'd be a perfect fit. I mean she's not asked dramatic but she would know you so well yes she would like hills some of those challenges and yeah she. She's definitely not dramatic in the sense that the challenge people are but she won't take Shit and like I feel like yeah for sure. It'd be perfect. Yeah definitely definitely. So what? Were your thoughts about last night's finale. Every finale I always want like the underdog to win so my heart. I was rooting for Natalie. But like in my mind. I knew Tony would win because I he deserved it. Like one hundred percent deserve to win totally. But it's all fine when someone comes from behind and you know I one out and then she comes back. Like what are the odds But overall I felt like it was a really well edited. Finale I love I. I don't know if I loved that there was no reunion but I thought it was the right choice. Yeah yeah that was like so shocking to me. I definitely thought it was the right choice. Because I've found with this season and a lot of modern survivor. There's so much content because the game moves so quickly and there's so many things that you have to keep for the edit like finding idols and a lot of the strategy or like a really cohesive storyline has been cut from the episodes so I was so excited with others. Finale it was I honestly think three out like the best hours I've watched of modern survivor. I thought they did a really good job but yeah I was missing the reunion. I was like why did they put out all of those cameras. They had everybody there and then like no one even got to talk. Yeah I what we were saying when we were watching it is. I feel like the part where Jeff was talking to all the people from the edge after the competition and he was asked what their experience was I was like. This is an acceptable replacement. I think for the reunion really hearing like you know their feelings. In that moment I do love the reunion because I love to hear like what's different afterwards. I feel like most of their lives. Probably haven't changed after this season versus a normal season. So who got the money? That's what I want. I know I know I know me too. Yeah I actually agree with that because I I often hear in the survivor. Like press coverage. Like all the PODCASTS. I listened to and you read it and stuff like that when you get a question on the reunion. It's like not even cannon because you've had time to like prepare or mull over or like build your own narrative of of what you think happened where you're right with the in the moment questions from Jeff after the edge of extinction challenge was. Yeah like really raw and emotional and I really really enjoyed. I was crying so all my gosh me too. Yeah it was beautiful. But I really appreciated the finale Overall it was a good season. I it's definitely not like my favorite which I think when I was coming into it. I just had such high expectations because of the types of people that were playing. And like it's like oh my gosh. These are classic people that I dislike love and who really created what the show is today and I really do agree with you that. Tony is deserving. But yeah like I don't think it was like a top ten season for me. What is your favorite season of modern survive rights? Kagi on which is like we are a hot. Take now that Tony One and I don't even think that in-necessarily was because of Tony. I just think it was a really good like entertaining and season like the ruined through and a satisfying winner and stuff like that. I find other seasons of modern survivor. That I really like don't have that satisfying and dean That I'm like looking for which I will talk about later. Which just like who's been winning lately and I think that that like caps it off but yeah what's your favorite season actually didn't think about it. I know what my favor winter is. Kim But season is out my favorite super bowl. I mean I it's Cliche but probably heroes vs villains is the second one I saw. I just think it's full of so much entertainment and so many great moments and it's like I I personally don't love the way that it ended But I felt like it was such a great journey and I do think a lot of survivor is about the journey versus the destination to the point. Where sometimes I feel like it doesn't even matter really who won as far as entertainment. You know obviously to the people who played at matters but you know for someone washing at home. The winner doesn't matter as much as like the and the journey. You've got to see along the way for sure and like their moments and strategy that I love that have happened in seasons that I wouldn't even think of my top ten or anything like that but I I think when I am watching and like I am just looking for the entertainment probably and so yeah things like John. Here's versus villains. Like those are just like every episode is so strong and yeah so exciting so we started with like a crazy season. There was the edge of extinction. Twist where we saw. Natalie come back. I thought that was like wild. Just when you're thinking about this season and then thinking about edge of extinction Chris Underwood one where both of the players that came back at final six made it to the end. Do you think that that's like if you're thinking about game mechanics? Do you think that that is something that we'll see again? Do you think that will always happen if someone comes in at final six that don't make it to final three? Yeah I definitely don't think it's fair to bring someone back at final. Six is way too late in the game and we were really surprised that they did that again. 'cause I just feel like especially I mean I know. They didn't give her the idol. She bought it but with an idol coming in at six you only have to win one immunity and then you can make it to four and then you just have to make fire totally. I had a no. It's just timing wise. It's a little too easy. I was thinking about it yesterday. I think and I really. I preferred Redemption Island because I felt with redemption island. At least you know they would only interact with one person at a time and they mmediately compete or three people at a time. That was Tyson season But you know they would immediately compete. Someone would go home and they were all you know hanging out and talking about. Oh what's going to happen when you get back in the game and strategizing and talking about what's going on to the point where you know With edge of extinction. You're like Natalie played an incredible game but the argument is like was her game still survivor or was it a different game because if the question was just like who played the best game on edge of extinction. Obviously she won that. But I don't think too many people that was really survivor totally and I like never hold it against the people that come back like Chris or not were tasting or rick or whatever like I never want to hold it against them. 'cause they're just playing the cards that they were dealt and that was the game that they were given and they maximize like and took advantage and worked really hard to get where they were. But yeah like I am such a sucker for like classic survivor and I think the edge takes away some of those things like having to present your argument to the jury like not had such an advantage that she got a hang out with the jury so they knew about Most of her like advantages in game play from the edge. I know that she detailed it in the final tribal council and like people. She kept some of the pieces a secret from the players at the edge. But yeah I just think like. It's such an unfair advantage and I think that if she was hanging out on the edge. But there's nobody there I don't know if she would have got four votes and like seeing with Chris like if he wasn't if he was on a deserted island that was the edge They're all separate or something like that like I don't think he wins right to those. Yeah that you're creating yeah. It definitely is complicated. I feel like Chris's win. Definitely was based on the bonds that he made on edge. I almost feel like Natalie's votes were more based on outside bonds although I feel like her in poverty because it was poverty Ethan Tyson Jeremy that voted for yet and I know she connected with poverty and Ethan on edge but I think I saw somewhere that she entice already close and her journey obviously pretty close already. So you'll like that definitely played a part. I don't know I Like I said I was Kinda secretly with my heart rooting for her. Because I do like she with like you said with the cards she was dealt. She played the best game she could have. I didn't think it was fair at the end for them to be like. Oh you should have gone against Tony. Because if she didn't think she could be Tony and fire making like you know what was the point ask that was also something that stuck with me too is like. I think it was Boston. Rob And just like some other members of the jury that were just like adamant of like. Why didn't she take on Tony at the end? Because I'm like because then if she loses she like she doesn't make a final tribal and I think like one aspect of people that are watching from their homes like she would've if she didn't think she could beat him at fire making. She goes home but she also loses out on a lot of money like they get paid per placement and how far and well. They do so even if she thought like okay. Maybe I won't win the game but I like. She probably made so much more money making it to final three than going out or second making a second place versus fourth right and. I don't know how much they were giving second place this time but I believe normally it's one hundred thousand dollars. Yeah it's it's like quite quite a bit of money I and I think like third places maybe around like fifty thousand something like for for many people that is like life changing money right. So yeah I I didn't. I didn't think that that was poor. Like a poor decision on her behalf. I definitely felt like And we'll talk about like gender dynamics and a bit but I do feel like that was a bit of a like. Oh you should like be a man and like prove easy. I just felt kind of like the masculine. Like thing to do is to go in and base Sur enemy yourself and I felt like she was making a logical decision to send someone else in there. So you wouldn't have to go home so I just didn't like the Kinda intention behind it when Tony said it initially. And then when ROB said it. Yeah totally yeah. I agree with that like I think. Like the logical choices to know your abilities and what you can do and what might be risky and like I think that that was the safest choice like obviously if we look at it and look at the results like maybe it didn't garner the result. She was looking for. But if you're thinking like logically in like if that would play out time and time again like that really is the right choice. I think it's that it didn't work out this time. But another big thing from the finale. Last night I think was Michelle Receiving Zero. Which is so so so sad to me. I. I was so sad watching her face on the votes got red and he was so sad. Like y'all like that realization. That was actually something that I was curious about. Because in my kind of like understanding usually most people know where the votes fall like. I know it is supposed to be secret. But I think like people kind of understand or like pick up on things or whatever and she seemed genuinely surprised that she didn't receive any votes. Yeah I don't know because I I saw a little bit of an interview that she did afterwards and she was saying that a few people told her that they were going to vote for her but they didn't because they thought that it might end up giving him and Natalie and I don't know to me that kind of sounds like first of all. It's odd that they would tell her who they voted for like. That's kind of you know but I'm sure they do that receipts but second of all. I don't know if I actually believe that. Or if they just said that as like a reason you know to make her feel better. I don't know yeah yeah. I don't know what it was but yeah that is sometimes a jury strategy of like well if I vote for this person because I kind of know where the juries headed most know generally the direction it's going to go before final tribal council just in their discussions at Ponderosa. A lot of players will be like well. I want my vote to count or I don't want I want this person to win and I don't want to disrupt the like we could accidentally like all have the same thoughts. Vote for Michelle. But I do want Tony to win. So sometimes people don't do that but I thought that she deserved visits from specific people and I hope that this doesn't take away from like the really great job. She did this season and and I know that it was played out a little bit throughout the season of her. Not Feeling like she deserved her win and I really hope that she can see just like what a great player that she is. Yeah definitely and I yeah. It does suck because so much of her narrative during the season was feeling like she hadn't deserved and then like coming back and feeling like she did. And that was really interesting to see and I think we'll talk about that in a little bit too like I feel like it was mainly female winners. Who talked about feeling like they didn't deserve the win her solely amber talking about it at the end So that was really interesting to see like that awareness of what people perceive as whether they deserved it or not. Yeah Yeah I think that's a really good point. We often saw that from women or Doubting their win and their accomplishment and I think that comes from a lot of different things that play out on survivor and I think like in terms of modern survivor gender gets talked about so much more than it did in the past and I think sometimes people think like Oh. This is a new thing a new thing on survivor but like obviously like power dynamics and systems and game mechanics that favor Men have been there since the beginning and I thought that it was really interesting like Sarah's speech last night to Jeff fend the jury in the players about The backlash that she received from the audience about her lying and being deceptive and the internal goal that she had about like m. I A bad person because of these things that I was doing and I thought yeah. That may be a good place to start. Yeah I definitely thought it was interesting I will say I felt like I totally understood where she was coming from. But I did not feel like that was why people would have voted for Tony over her but not to invalidate what she said. I still think what she said was accurate. I just felt like it was maybe not the right now. The right thing to say to the jury at that point because it's basically saying Oh jury you're all excess but I do think definitely like they've said before like survivor definitely is a reflection of society in that way and I do feel like masculine traits tend to be rewarded and feminine traits tend to be seen as weakness and I think you see that a lot in survivor. Where the person WHO's the winner? Generally people choose them winter because they had aggressive gameplay like that's a really like Buzzword They like to pick the threats you know. They like to pick the people that win a lot of challenges and find a lot of idols. They go out there and they you know they hunt for the idols and there will like pushing their moves and they're making things happen versus the people that are sort of quieter or behind the scenes nerve way of doing. It isn't really respected as much so I definitely Kind of went on a tangent there but no I think it definitely relates back to that and I do feel. Do you feel that. Sarah got a lot of backlash for a game. That she played. That was very similar to Tony's game or really anyone's game. That's one had it aggressive gameplay and I felt like the reason that she one was because she played more aggressively because that seems to be the type of game. Plan that people reward at this point so for people to react like that to hers and not like that someone else's doesn't seem fair at all. Yeah it's like you are blamed if you do have aggressive gameplay and then you're also blamed if you don't like at least that's what kind of she was kind of illustrating for us and I think like you're totally right like a lot of leadership Qualities that people think of in survivor like corralling groups and making decisions making executive decisions and stuff like that are on behaviors that are associated with men and masculinity and. I think it's just a lot of these things that people fall into these more traditional rules and the ones that are often rewarded are the ones that men are allowed to do or expected to do in real life and on the TV show for sure. Yeah there's also when we we talk about yeah these masculine traits but also these feminine trait sleigh being maternal Or you know like being a good friend and be nice and stuff like that with women. So when women backstab or lie or cheat their painted in such a harsh light Where you see man like Sarah's sane. It's applauded for this aggressive game play but I think women yeah like they. They get bitter juries because people are assuming that you'll act this one way and if you went against that then they're pissy you for it for sure and I feel like to the I was thinking about this last night as I was going to sleep two of the really good examples of just sort of that contrast were Mike Would have worlds apart versus. Momma's see and then Ben versus Chrissy in. Heroes Healers Hustler's I felt like they were two very similar. Sort of scenarios where Mike ended up basically winning immunity and finding idols and made his way to the end that way and then did basically the same exact thing versus Momma's and Christie had more sort of social games Christie's I feel like was pretty strategic. I haven't watched it in a little bit but I remember both of them. Were definitely like making moves and they were running the game and if you respect that kind of game play. They definitely deserved more votes than got but it does seem like the jury is really like that sort of flash. She underdog kind of play. Where it's like. Well you're the targeted guy. Everybody wants you out but you keep playing these idols winning immunities and we really respect that you made it to the end which I totally get and definitely. When I watched the seasons the first time I was like OK allies. They deserved it. Even though I kinda was hoping that Mama and Christie was went with Just sort of like well you know they really earned it but at the same time if if your game is all flashy physical you know idols. And you don't have any grasp on the social dynamics then you. Are you really even playing survivor? Or are you just sort of going on a scavenger hunt and doing really well in physical challenges? You know totally like if we think about what survivor is. It's a game of social dynamics and navigating those and voting people out but still having them vote for you to win at the end. Am I don't get this new era of survivor where it is a lot of the merit of winners is based on these big flashing moves and these? Social Games That often like these women that you're talking about Mama see in Christie and Michelle and south. Sarah have on lock that allow them to navigate. Those dynamics and make social earth strategic moves to make it to the end and I understand that like flashy moves and stuff play better on. Tv possibly even says she in kind of our culture now where everything's bigger and better and more and faster like I totally get that it plays well on TV. But I just don't understand why get such a bad rap or is so valued compared to this other tape big game play right and I definitely feel like a lot of it for me comes back to just. I think the players of survivor have created over the past ten seasons a mass area to win and a lot of it has to do with like building your resume as they've made up that term and like you know dragging a goat to the end didn't stuff like that you know having a meat she'll like there's all these different terms that people they've just become part of the survivor rene killer and so. I feel like at the end. The jury just sort of is like okay. What does a winner of survivor look like and they just look for that person that fits the mold best and I don't feel like that's how it started like I really like about the early seasons? They were still sort of like there really are no rules as to who wins. It's just sort of you. Vote these people and then they pick a winner and it's not like you have to pick the person who played the best game you don't have to pick the person who had the best strategy you just get to pick a winner of a million dollars and so I feel like initially. There was a more balanced voting system between social game. Play and more aggressive game play because people's feelings get hurt or they wouldn't respect the way that someone played like you look at a season like Somalia which was my first one and Russell hands played a very aggressive and he was playing all sorts of idols. He was like one of the first people to find him without clues orchestrated all of the vote outs. Or he was at least part of them and in the end they ended up voting. Offer Natalie White and you know you could argue that. She really didn't do that much of what people would. Today call a survivor winner and she built relationships but I think if that season happened today probably he would win because people think that's who wins survivor but I feel like her way of playing was just as valid and she deserved to win just as much because that was her way to get to the end totally and I find it interesting even just thinking about goats or people that make it to final threes. It's like will. They did something that you didn't do. And maybe that they lowered their threat level enough to make it through some votes or they won. Challenges are like. There's something that they must have done that. You didn't do to make it there and I think yes maybe some times were like. I'm definitely guilty of this of Lake. Absolutely like obliterating. Someone's game because I don't think they deserve to be in the final like finals. But we're also only shown a small portion of what people are doing and I find that a lot of those similar moves a they're harder to convey online or on. Tv like it's harder to set up a story or Show intricacies of relationships through just confessionals and then the footage but also yet that people might find that boring nowadays like people talk about going back and watching old survivor. And it's like this is so slow. What even happened in this episode and stuff like that and it's like probably a lot but right now it's filled with idols and advantages and stuff like that. So you lose the. I Dunno integral piece which I think honestly is the backbone of the show. Yeah I completely agree I think at its best. Survivor is really about that. Dynamic of strangers having survive with each other and trust each other but at the same time vote each other out so it's really like that balance of trust in DC. Which is really interesting to watch. And I do feel lake pre idols. That was more the narrative and there was a lot more of like telling people are GonNa vote 'em out and stuff like that And now as time has gone on it's gotten a lot wonky or and eventually you look at last season island of the idols. There is like a new idol. That was getting play and it was just a bit much to the point where you're like. Is this even the same show? Yeah Yeah I thought you brought up a really interesting Point earlier about what? People's conception of a winner looks like. What do you have to have on your resume? What do you like what? What are those boxes you have to tick to be the winner and I think that a lot of people it carries on season after season of what people think is legitimate and I think yeah the way that it spin going like like speaking of Ireland of the idol's like haven't thought about Tommy since the finale and people like absolutely shit on his game and I thought that he played a good solid game and I think like a lot of people like middle of the road players? Are the ones that win. Because a lot of people. If you're almost like too good I say in air quotes. You are often spotted and voted out early. Yes I feel like. It is the these of like all around middle of the road players that win. But it's like haven't talked about him in ages because he kinda did play like one of those classic games that was built on like relationships and stuff like that. So it's interesting of like he's kind of disregarded good winner because in this new era they're such stringent criteria. Right for sure for sure and I do feel like part of the reason. I didn't love him as a winner was just because of everything that happened. Non Season Thirty nine and the affiliations that he had and I don't know how much he knew about what happened. Or you know whether he believed certain people but just ten being in an alliance with Dan. It was really hard for me to like root for him at the end absolutely totally. Yeah that that season. If you didn't watch there was a contestant who was nonconsensual the in inappropriately touching another contestant on the show and he was eventually removed but it was like way too late in the game and handled poorly at the time and and even post survivor but the show swiftly moved onto the season forty with. Yeah it's a good thing that There was kind of this more like uplifting season right after but it is unfortunate that like often these things get brushed under the rug. And just like okay like we had the finale so like let's move on so Dan's Filo the guy who was appropriate touching the girl's he was the one Anyways he came out and apologized afterwards. But it's like at that point. The season was over. Nobody was really talking about that anymore. It definitely wasn't a season that was like going to be talked about for the ages. You know it's like the the season we're all GonNa try to forget. I think yeah totally. Yeah because it was like traumatic for people and really hard hard to process. I think and the people on that produced the show. Maybe didn't set us up for us to really watch that season and I don't know do well lake. I think that yeah. I do feel like there should have been. I don't know maybe a little bit more of a warning or totally something within the show that was like just see you know like things are about to get really bad because I feel that merge episode was just one of the most like heart wrenching. Things I've ever watched. It was. Yeah yeah totally or even Not a similar thing but on drag race this season there was a person who I don't. I don't WanNA detail the the situation because I I don't know the specifics. But they came out ahead of the episodes airing and said we found out this information after this had been taped so we've done our best to minimize their involvement in the show and like they could have done something like that where they played out as a normal season. They didn't let us like opt out a if it was something that is triggering. They didn't let you opt out because you never knew honest situation or was going to be shown but also they didn't do a good job of minimizing his content and and letting people know we eventually remove him and we provide. Kelly with the supports that she needed. But this is how things unfolded right and I remember like when all this was happening and when the big merge episode came out people were talking about how If you remember that episode from Game Changers Zeke got out at tribal council. I believe that the crew behind survivor actually went to Zeke and like showed him the episode was like making sure that he was okay with it but They did not do that with Kelly. Yeah who was touched by Dan? Yeah and I felt like that wasn't really fair. I did appreciate that at the reunion. They like you know they had her come up and it did feel a little bit like she was uncomfortable being put under the spotlight like that. Yeah I really appreciated what she had to say and the fact that she did say something because I felt like it meant a lot to a lot of people. I wonder if that's because a lot of these things that are happening. If you look at like a continuum of like violent behavior and sorry we're going down a rabbit will but if you look at a continuum of violent like inappropriate behaviors survivor. Let's a lot of the ones that are like maker Gushin's or less recognizable as like wrong. Slept like you're totally right. Like like Zeke came out after his season and said how well they treated it because it was this agree GIS act I think that producers and contestants new as wrong but some of these smaller less recognized behaviors just go unnoticed or unchecked on survivor. And I think like that's something that I wanted to talk about too. If like Jeff. Pope's like he has now like cleared his name twice at different tribal councils one thirty nine in one in forty where he's like kind of giving this like. I'm taking responsibility in taking accountability for things that I might have done now or in the past that were wrong but you can acknowledge those things and God that he has done it but he also lets Tons of these things slide or go unnoticed or projects. His own a lot of the things. We're talking about of of this one image of a winner. A lot of that is from. Jeff like look Jeff's favorite players. They're all these like super masculine men. Yeah that have played really aggressive games or like Sarah was talking about how he calls all these men in this boys club by their last name but not the women. So it's like there are things that yeah just kind of go unchecked. Yeah definitely I feel like I'M PRETTY SURE JEFF proposes from Kansas. So I definitely think he has sort of that like midwest like sort of underlying you know. Good Ole boy Kinda mentality And I do feel like I. I really appreciate the way that he talks about it because I you can tell that like he cares and he wants to do the right thing. I just think Maybe there's not that person that's there with him. That's a producer. That's telling him like. Hey you know this could be read this way or you know you're saying this and you should really say this instead just things like that. Yeah I don't WANNA put any blame on other people that are there. Because obviously he's like the boss and stuff like that and he became an executive producer in the last like blank seasons and he obviously has a lot of pull in the show so the power dynamics would be weird for some or very difficult to navigate for people to call him out but yeah I think like when you look at systems or whatever that yeah are led by Certain people like there's the trickle down effect of what people value and what people think is right and I often look at Mark Burnett. Who's the Creator and and Jeff as an executive producer and the host to change some of these things that we've been talking about definitely definitely and I think you know a lot of is like people in Hollywood are very out of touch? With what anyone else's experiencing not to generalize people in Hollywood? I'm sure there are some better very in touch with reality but I do feel like I. I lived briefly in L. A. And I definitely feel like it's its own bubble and people have their own idea of what real life is like and they definitely don't fully understand like what life is like outside of entertainment totally. Yeah I I agree with that. I think like one other thing. That is interesting in modern survivor. Is this like final? Four fire making twists. I've been seeing a lot of discourse online about. Is this something that favors men like. What what are your thoughts on that? Yeah I mean. I don't know that's hard to say because I we've definitely seen a lot of men win at the fire making contest. I don't know I it did feel like it kind of came out of nowhere because I don't know I think if you make it to the final four and you get voted out three to one. That's probably because you didn't play good enough social game and I feel like them how it really worked for a long time and I was okay with you know like I felt like David. Wright should have one millennials versus gen-x. But he got voted so it is what it is. He didn't deserve to win if he got voted out. So I don't know it almost feels unfair to everybody else. That's been another season. That didn't get fire. You know. Yeah I mean are men inherently better at making fire probably not but it does tend to be the men that win. I don't really know why. Yeah I don't know why either like I don't have a definitive answer because I think like for example. Everyone knows that. There's this fire making challenge. So you best showing up to the island knowing how to make fire and they're like if you're thinking that you're GonNa make it long long term and win this challenge if ever put in that situation like you really have to know so in that aspect. I don't think it's inherently sexist like I think like there is equal opportunity for people to know how to make fire. I think though in practice for example I think about who does make fire camp like. That's one of things that I think about like before on the show when you're at home and you're prepping. Can you make fire every day? Absolutely you should know that but I do think of like when you're back at camping you're thinking about the rules like we often hear about the women making rice something like that or like weaving those palm fronds and stuff like that and then so. I'm thinking do they have the opportunity to make every day or does not often fall in the hands of the men Ray and idea remember on season thirty nine. There was one scene where I want to say. Kelly was trying to make fire and I think it was. Jamal was like no let me do it. And there was sort of that weird dynamic of like no. I'm the man I'm GonNa make the fire. And he was like not able to start it but he's still like I'm GonNa make the fire. And she was wanting to try and he wouldn't let her so it's possible they're sort of that dynamic going on as well where it's just the guys being like. I WANNA prove I can make a fire. Yeah I also want to acknowledge that this Image were this contract that you have to be a super masculine guy and prove yourself with making fire. Must be also difficult to navigate if that's not your natural tendencies or whatever so. I don't know what the answer is like. I definitely prefer like it not to be there like for it to be a classic vote. 'em Like we saw some of the best players leave at final three when it was when it was two people finales and final four in the later seasons. Yeah I don't know I think that maybe it is one of the things we've seen a men's winning streak right now where they're like. The last six seasons right have been. Yeah have been men that have one so. I think it's like all of these variables that we've been talking about Kind of compounding. On each other another thing when men are talking it's often men talking about the big threat of the game. Like I feel like I've seen this exact conversation season after season where there's like three guys around the water while and they're like who are the big threats and they just name other men. I don't know how we came here or how we could change it but it. It's just things that I've noticed definitely like you know like I said. I thought Tony deserve the win. But I didn't like his whole narrative throughout the season of like it's the lions versus the hyenas and like the lions just happen to be mostly him and other strongmen. And like I think Sarah and maybe Kim and Sandra were included but then you know like Denise Michelle Nick were thought of Hyenas and you know like the though that was supposed to be denise but she took out Sandra they were talking about the threats versus the non threats. And it's like why is it that you don't see someone like Denise as a threat? She won a season. She's ones a lot of challenges shoes in great jam. She's really good at social game and she's really smart so I don't see where the lack of threat is yeah. I think that that's really what it comes down to is like when people are like appointing who is a threat and WHO's not. Why does it seem like they're super accomplished women that just get discredited immediately? I don't know I completely agree. I think that there are people that have won. That maybe weren't the pick. Or maybe the weren't the deserving players but it just seems like there's a general lake sediment that yeah that the big dogs are always like the guy and kind of going back to that idea of like a deserving winner versus an undeserving winner. I kind of made a list of like who I think is like considered an undeserving winner. And I feel like it's like Amber Sandra Natalie White Michelle and Sophie are kind of viewed as undeserving winners. And you look at like amber season. You could argue that. And she said last night that she feels that she won. Because everybody was matter at rob and then Sandra season the second one. Heroes were civilians. You could argue that. She got the votes because people were mad at poverty. Russell and the Natalie white season same thing people are mad at Russell Michelle season. People were mad at Aubrey and then Sophie Season. People are mad at coach so it does feel like a lot of the time people feel that these undeserving winners only one. Because everyone was mad at someone else but that sort of discounts the fact that they played a game in which they didn't make anyone mad which is still a valid way to play survivor. Yeah I don't know why that's discounted either because yet like when amber on the finale last night was talking about that like I really believe I only one because and that rob truly one but I just one because people are pests but I mean but part of the game is having people not pissed at you at the end right. So I'm like that's a huge flaw in your game if you're if you're pissing people off to a point where they can't even vote for you at that. Yeah definitely and that's like I said like I feel like it's shifted so much in the game where people feel like now. You have to vote for that person that played aggressively even if they made you mad. And I feel like really discounts. The people that are playing in a different way were. They focused more on relationships because ultimately if everyone in the game is playing aggressively. They'RE GONNA voted out. And it's not going to be that fun to watch 'cause it's just GonNa be sporadic like I felt like island of the idols to me was a good example of people sort of making moves. Just for the sake of making a move and it wasn't really fun to watch 'cause all the to me the most interesting characters got voted out earlier than I would have liked totally and I felt like some of the votes. Were so out of nowhere. Like Chelsea Walker getting voted out really early on because she had like one conversation with a guy and it was just like totally. Yeah I even think of Gabby voting out Christian like I think it was mostly. She had this thing in her head of like. I need to make a big move. I am if I'm the audience at home. I'm screaming out my TV. Why is continuing to work with Christian? And she tried to flip on him and it didn't pan out but I. I truly believe she wouldn't have done that if there wasn't this idea in her head like. I need to make a big move now before it's too late right and I think you you mentioned a really good point about chaotic gameplay. That's really aggressive leg. Tony is the best representative of that style versus Sarah and like I navigate more to Sarah's game play because it's so consistent and I think truly I think Tony is really great. Tv that's why On in such revere. But if you think about Sarah and Tony and if they played one hundred games my money is on Sarah because she has the relationships she can fall back on. She has this more consistent game play. That's way less erotic quote last night like it's been thirty. Six days of me calming down when he wants to do something crazy. And I thought that that was just a great representation of like her game play or one of her strategies that it didn't often get showed on the show. Yeah I just appreciate her. Yeah I definitely feel like what really impressed me about Sarah. Just in the last bit of the finale in the last bit of her part on the finale was is ben telling her to vote him out so that she could have a chance at winning. Which like I'm sure you know in her mind. She wasn't like I'm going to manipulate this guy to tell me to vote him out. It was just a testament to like the real relationship and connection that she makes with other players that he was willing to give up his shot to win to let her have a chance at winning and I do feel like probably part of it was some self awareness and him being like well even if I make. It's probably won't win and Thai actually. I really liked that move because I was like to me. It shows so much about like the toll. This game takes on you that you would rather keep your friends than have a shot at winning. But yeah so that. And the fact that Natalie went up to her the water well and showed Heidel and tried to get her. She genuinely thought she had her on board to vote out Ben. I thought that was so interesting that Sarah had such a grasp on an everyone's sort of social dynamic that she was really able to get everyone to think that she was with them one hundred percent and we saw that in game changers and then we saw that again in in season. Forty where she was. Everyone's number one and I think like going into the season Dalton. Ross he's a reporter for. I don't even can't even recall the magazine. He asked everybody to write down the person that they want to vote out. First and Sarah got like fifty percent of the votes going into the season and like look at her at the end and that just shows It does show the testament of what she was able to accomplish where she was able to work at a game where technically everyone is against everyone else but she was able to work so seamlessly with people like Bannon. Tony where at the end. They're all in tears about her leaving or Ben leaving like that just shows the I don't know off her skills and her her relationship building Seem fate yeah. I'm in off Sarah. And I think a lot of people don't like her because she doesn't have those zingers in confessional and yes she doesn't have those. Fauci idle plays and stuff like that but and like game. Changers wasn't the best season. Hey but in terms of entertainment but I really I think she's one of the the best survivor players. We've seen in in in the series but also just in fiber and I think a lot of the season really demonstrated like modern survivor has changed so much from old survivor. Which is why I think the old survivor players really couldn't keep up I The like rob was maybe the best example of it was trying to do the buddy system but with actual like really great players and it was like what were you thinking. Did you really think that they were gonNA around all day? Not In that episode. When they didn't even really seem like they had to talk but Ben and like Adam and stuff like that they're making is on each other like we know it's rob right like we're all like good with that and like how they didn't even really had to have like like they didn't have thorough discussion or anything. They just knew right. Sometimes we forget how much luck or the other competition really makes a winner. Yeah definitely and that's the thing with me with the fire making contest kind of going back to that is I do feel like. There's an element of luck. Like I don't think you can win without knowing how to make a fire but I think ultimately like sometimes you hit the flint and there's a spark and sometimes you hit the flint and there's no spark and it's I I've seen we've all seen a lot of fire making contests where the person who has been making fires all day suddenly candidate Meyer. Yeah and like I think. Part of it is just finding idle. Luckily out there is aspects of it that it that is just fluke and lack and stuff like that so all of the elements have to come together for someone to win. So what's next for survivor? Like we're moving into our into the forties which is wild to me but do you think that there are things that the show can do to. Kind of mitigate some of these gender dynamics are kind of these traditional rules that happen. Yeah I definitely thought about it a lot because there is so much within the show that is sort of really built into it that I can't really imagine it changing but I feel like it would have to change to get a new kind of winter and I feel like ultimately. I don't know if this would ever happen. But there needs to be like basically a reset of the game. Because you know like I said. People seem to already have in their mind. What's The archetype of a winner? And it's based on the game that exists as it exists so I mean I've I've talked to my boyfriend about it a lie and you know. He has no idea where it's like do a survivor apocalypse. Where it's like everyone's in an abandoned warehouse and we give them like basic supplies and they after survive like that or you know survivor somewhere. Other than Fiji where it's just and they. I feel like if they either really simplified the game maybe didn't have any idols or only did advantages instead of idols. That would I think bring it back more to its roots of being about social politics and strategy and not so much about who has the flashiest game play in the longest resume. Yeah I also think like that's a good point about the idol's like having alternative ways to find them currently the predominant way to find an idol is to look in Bush. Is there used to be clues to them Now sometimes there is sometimes. There's not obviously there's other ways that you can get things like buying them with their fire tokens on the season or her. There's been idols hidden at challenges etc but often people are talking about how finding them is skewed towards men also just thinking about how when you're back to the basics new surviving on an island. I think those more traditional roles come out. Because that's something that you probably feel comfortable in and it's something maybe add that provides you comfort when you don't have any the roundabout way of saying that. Often women are pigeon held in to stain camp and like tending to count life where the men have more free reign to walk in search and look and stuff like that as far as changing the game to be. I don't think we need to change the game so that it's like. Oh we have to make a woman win. I just wanted to be more fair and equitable and it does seem like no more that they move towards making all these random advantages have so much influence the more that we see male winners. I do feel like moving away from advantages would probably balancings out a little bit more but I do really feel like at the core. It really has to come down to the players agreeing. That what makes a winner is not necessarily slash game play and relation. I don't know if that will just take maybe finding a cast. That doesn't know the game very well or bringing in a cast and telling them like the rules are completely different. This season or something like that. I love seeing fans on the show because I'm a fan and I want to be on it but I do think you get sort of a more interesting dynamic when you bring in people that don't know the show like yeah you see someone like Earl who won an Survivor it was the ones with the haves versus the have nots. But I forget Fiji feed bound. Okay so we have. Someone like earl who wants survivor. Fiji and he had never seen the show before and he basically I think he found out that he was going to be on it like a day or two before and I flew him out. I might be wrong about that story. I know he had never seen the show on anyone. Which I think is really cool and I think it's because he played with this very let a social game that was very much about relationships with people and there were still a lot of strategy in it but it was really not a game that was influenced by anyone else's game and I think that's really the main issue we have today is everyone's trying to and relate a game that someone else's played. Yeah I though you brought up. A good point of that is one thing that has really changed from day. One survivor is that they're casting way more super fans and obviously as a superfan. I love that like that's great. Plus like it right the emotional piece of it like I think like the most recent super super duper fan that I can think of his atom like just start emotional lake or Chrissy halfback like I've applied for sixteen years and I'm on the show like that is such great. Tv that obviously WANNA watch. But you're right about forecasting super fans and they have this idea of what a winner is. How do you? How do you change that? Like how how is that? Something that how hokey bring other ideas of what winners should be to the to the show right for sure. Yeah it's definitely bothered me as the seasons. Go on every time. Someone's like traditional in a in survivor. Once an idol and other one is hidden. And it's like I really miss when that know when a new idol. Yes When you had to go to exile to find an idol when it wasn't just so easy where people were like an idol in the jungle and I know it's there so a play tonight all or on the last edge of extinction when they were saying like. Oh let's just make it to the family visit and then we'll fight it out amongst ourselves and I just felt like that was so frustrating where the players all knew exactly win things. Were going to happen and what the time line was and I definitely feel like it needs to get switched up a bit so that people can't really predict as much what's going to happen next. I also think this came up obviously in every thirty nine but just hiring more women Like it was often detailed that all of the camera people and the producers and stuff like that I don't WanNa say all but mo- most our men and just having more women and more diverse perspectives is really important when you are looking at creating something that's like the ethical thing to do is have a diverse team of people to make sure that yeah. You're checking all those boxes that you need do. Yeah definitely I completely agree with that because that is really the best way to see if what you're making is you know. Equal is to have a pretty equal number of men and women that were that are working on it and I definitely you know I believe in you. Know Whoever's the most qualified or the best for the job should get it but at the same time if you know that your show has issues with diversity and having an equal experience for both genders. I definitely feel like it's justifiable to specifically bring someone in because they can represent back group. Yeah and they can bring a perspective that you might have missed while working there and And also just making people feel comfortable and not like other when their people talk about feeling like they were kind of token is are typecast in certain rules and when you don't see yourself reflected in the production or in the when I think about like offices or TV or whatever like if if people don't feel like they're reflected in that that really hinders people's ability to thri definitely. I do think it's interesting. Like sort of tracking the amount of diversity that has happened on survivor through the years and it's always equal with men and women. But you know racially it's it's definitely more white. Yeah like increased diversity. Yeah and I just think like if you really want a fair game you have to make it equitable for everyone. And people of Color and Queer folks and women are people that aren't the dominant gender if they don't have the ability to see themselves represented or supported. They're battling way more than just the game. They have all these other things that they're considering and I know that Certain people have said like I remember Krishna. Last season was talking about representing her community. And the pressures that came with that and how much more of mental fatigue and even physical fatigue does that. Play a part in people's ability to thrive right definitely. I do think part of it as well is. I mean I don't I don't know if this is just me musing or if there is proof behind it but I do feel like women tend to be more worried about the public perception of them so I do think women go into the game. A little more afraid of what people will perceive them as as opposed to men going into the game totally The other things that kind of we talked about that. I think that could mitigate. Some of these issues are editing lake. Don't show the fucking hundred times that manner talking about big threats or meet shields and not including women because then people at home through like their own lens but they're subconsciously taking that in and creating this idea of a winner so just like don't don't show those things yeah. I totally agree with that. I do feel like I hadn't really thought about it. But I do feel like survivor is more and more getting edited. Almost to be like a sport where it's like all you see a strategic game play and you see people talking about who they're gonNA vote out and all that stuff but you don't see as much of the human element of it so it's moving away from being about these relationships and people and how people react to different situations and it's more about like people playing a game and I definitely think that is partially responsible for why people only see it as a strategic game versus a human experience totally. Yeah I agree with that completely and in terms of filming we also kind of wrote in our notes about clothing options like you. People are tape cast For sure but I just think about some of the the overall say is from the production of what you can and can't wear and I just think of like the tiny sundresses that people get and like. Obviously that's totally okay. I'm not talking about it in a way of like that. It's like exposing their skin. Are like that. It's like slut shaming or anything. I'm not talking about that. I'm just talking about like the essentials that you need to survive outside whereas like the businessman gets a full suit and then you look over at the flirty young twenty year olds in a sundress and stuff like that. It's just like setting everyone up for success and I think that used to be a huge part of the game the survive survival element and the shipwreck to look and stuff like that. But we can get that from other. Tv shows I would much rather see people Clothes properly and effectively than than not right definitely and the example that I always think of his Purple Kelly from survivor. Nicaragua where she ended up quitting. And everybody was like. Oh she's a quitter you know. She was basically edited out of the season So that when she quit people were like who is this girl. But it's interesting because when you actually like look at the interviews with her afterwards which I did 'cause you know a Superfan She was basically saying she was like freezing out on the beach and all she had was this little yellow dress and they wouldn't give her anything else even though she was like begging them for other clothes and like judd who ended up winning the season. He gave her his jacket but she just was like slowly freezing to and so her and Janka ended up quitting because they just couldn't take it anymore and definitely feel like she was basically like shamed for that but they really should have allowed her to have a jacket or something. I do know that they have more clothing options nowadays and stuff like that but since they're producing a TV show and they have different types of characters They still play into that like this person's like the nerd. Let's stick them in. Yeah Blazer and stuff like that or abundant up t shirt or whatever and often women. It's just not all but a lot. It's just something that's like really not useful when you're on a deserted island and there's hurricanes and really bad rain and I definitely do not love that. They moved back to having them wear underwear as opposed to swimsuits. I don't know why they chose to do that. Because it's not like under aware quickly dries like swimsuits you know. I can't even imagine how gross that would be to wear the same pair of underwear for thirty nine days totally. Yeah and I I just think like in the early two thousands when the scheme was first on people probably were watching because it was a bunch of people in bathing suits and under ends of that. And there's like an appeal to that but I think nowadays like that's not what the game is about. And that's not the appeal. Go somewhere else. If that's what you WANNA see WanNa see girls in bikinis you can find that elsewhere. Yeah Ed so it's like just give them proper cloth's yeah for sure for sure. Especially because they're in Fiji every season now and Fiji like they go there basically during typhoon season which they've dealt with many seasons so it just seems like it. It just doesn't seem right. I do think like as time has gone on. It does look like all of them have jacket. I think now allowing them to bring a jacket. Y- which may have been because of Angelina and the whole jacket fiasco which was fantastic. Yes yes she was one of the first people to really include gender into this conversation He'll love Angelique that she was Super Super Nice when I met her and it was so funny I was talking to her and I was like I actually really loved you and she was like I thought everyone hated me and I was like no lake. I mean you were edited to be kind of this goofy character but I felt like she was so endearing you know and she. I fell at the beginning. She was really edited to be this like very interesting smart woman and then just over time it just started devolved into something else like she was still fun to watch but Yeah I do feel like it's Kinda like Adam. This season like. They really looked for the moments to kind of make him. Look you. Yeah like if there was like five times that he trapped. We're going to show all five times on Ray because they need these narratives but yeah it's it's like at the cost of somebody because it's really tough. I think that's like another thing. That survivors have been talking about is like just the toll that after the game takes on them like their mental health and soften. Yeah I I really likes that. They talked about that. And one of the tribal councils the season where they were talking about. How Lake how difficult it was to trust people again afterwards. I thought that was so interesting. Because you don't even think about that like I just imagine you know you go out you play you come home and you know it's like physically. I need to get back to what you were but I didn't even think about mentally like having that much a toll on you totally are lake. Just mulling over the mistakes or whatever that you need like I just. I can't imagine what that experience is like. Yeah I really like what? Tyson says Because he said on the season one and he said it again this season where he is like you know some people take it too seriously and they get voted out and it ruins their life and I thought that was really interesting because you know on his season he won. That was after his girlfriend. Got Voted out. He was upset that he was like you know as long as she had fun. And I stay here and I have a good time like that's really the point and I definitely think like there needs to be more of that mentality on survivor. Where it it is a game. It's an experience. You should all be having a good time like if you leave and you're really unhappy with your time there then. That's probably not the way that it should be going totally. I think one last thing but I wanNA talk about is also just coverage of the show. We talked about all of the articles that we read and podcasts. We listen to and stuff like the ad and I just think that the space is dominated by men and so obviously. They're talking about it through their own Lens. So yeah definitely 'cause. I hadn't even really thought about it until I saw that you made a note of that and I was like. Oh yeah like every well-known podcast every like well-known journalists that covers it is male and I know there was Before the season started I wanna say it was entertainment weekly Canada. There was a female entertainment Canada and entertainment tonight. Canada okay. Yeah Yeah so she was great. That was cool to see but I definitely think like especially of the former players that are now commentators. There's not as many women it at least not ones that are very. Yeah just thinking about the players that commentate like I am a rob has a podcast patron. It's like probably the only coverage I super super super follow and I think he's done an amazing job Discussing season thirty nine some of these issues that have come up. He really hasn't shied away from discussing them. But yeah I think leg again just like we talked about with production and filming and editing and also covering the seasons like we need to see more women to have different perspectives and that's also like also people of Color and people of different gender identities like we've talked about women but also we haven't even talked about Queer Trans folks like League we just need more diverse perspectives on the show The show definitely. I completely agree. 'cause yeah it. It's not something that you really like notice but I am. I am sure that it definitely has an influence on the way that people watch and think about the show totally. Yeah Yeah just because everyone Interprets things through their own intersections in their own lens. And if we're just hearing kind of this one dominant type of person obviously people contain multitudes. This kind of these ideas. I guess that are coming forth. If they're just coming from one type of person like a that's not interesting but be yeah. It's going to color the way that people think of things right and I think ultimately like as far as Jenner in the show. What it comes down to is like the same as in real life. It's not that I just want a woman to win for the sake of a woman winning dame that there have been a series of men winning. It's essentially a pattern. Now that men tend to only win and that to me is a sign that there's something in place that's not really letting women get to that spot so absolutely yeah like. I literally said at the top of this show that my favorite season was Kagi on which male winner. It's definitely not that. I just WANNA see women. Obviously I want to see women succeed but it's not for the sake of having a woman winner it. Yeah like you said is truly about. How can we make the game equitable for everyone? And it's boring if it's the same type of person and it's not exciting item agree. Yeah I mean you look back at the last six seasons and the winners were we had so tony. Yep this now not Chris Tony Tommy I see. I forgot about Tommy Chris. Nick Wendell and Ben Adam Adam was I think like thirty three okay. So a little. Yeah I'm just going back to like. When was the last female winter so Sarah and then it was like you know Ben and so forth yet but I definitely feel like all of them really had the same sort of has to the end. Maybe the only one that was a bit different was Wendell. Yeah has he was in such a strong pair? Yeah and that was super interesting ending. Yeah ty but yeah I definitely feel like you know Ben Neck Tommy Chris and Tony. They definitely feel like the same archetype really. There's many similarities between their game. Play so it is like you said it's just kinda boring at a certain point. It's like do I really WanNa Watch and just see the type of Guy. When at the end totally you look at a season like season thirty nine we started with such an incredibly diverse cast which is rare for survivor and was really exciting because it was like. Oh My. Gosh. I've never seen a cast. That had this many different backgrounds and we still end up with a white guy is totally which you know. If he played the best game he played the best game. I don't WanNa take away from him but I do feel like you know. We're getting the same kind of winter even if we start with a different group of people who maybe it's not about who you're putting on the show. It's more about the structure of the show absolutely. Yeah and I think that's like a really good note to end on. Is that we. I'm positive for the future. Like I'm really hopeful. That survivor is GonNa take note of These things as they get covered more talked about more and I'm hopeful that they'll listen to their audience and make the necessary changes and we just thought of a handful of changes that they can make right now. That like Casta says you're not just players but your consultants. I'm unemployed but yeah like we thought of some not solutions but some things to you to try out that they could implement like right away so I'm really hopeful that things will will improve for the better and yeah I'm excited to see what sees him forty one and beyond has in store for US definitely. I'm super excited and I agree with you. I think it'll probably be good to have this little break for them. And I think they'll kind of reconsider what they're GONNA do moving forward. And hopefully it won't just be a few more twists and flipping coins totally like this is my favorite. Tv show. I stand by that. It is the best game on earth and love to watch every season and I WANNA continue to WANNA watch every season and yeah. I think that this is important. An important conversation to have for them to move forward in a way that Fair for everybody but also makes their show better and like diverse cast and crew enrich TV shows. And they shouldn't shy away from. That definitely agree like saying. It's my favorite show on TV and will probably always watch but I would definitely be more excited about it if there was a bit of a switch up in it. Yeah absolutely. I think that's it from us. It was really nice talking to someone about a survivor but be like gender dynamics in often times. Like on this podcast. We don't talk about like some of the these not heavy but more challenging topic so it was also a this has been a challenge for me to make sure that I'm my homework and being fair and Have some good points in my arguments. Yeah that's awesome no. It was Super Fun. I always want to talk about survivor. And it's hard to find people that watch it so this has been really fun for me. Good yeah thanks so much for bringing your perspective in Doing due diligence of of research and stuff like that and putting together some thoughts. I super appreciate that pressure. So many. Wear Kin folks find you if they want to hear more from you? So it's not about survivor. Right people are interested in sort of seeing what I write and what I do in my life I have a blog called vagrants and vagabonds and basically. I talk about all the different sort of jobs that I've had worked on a cruise ship and gave tours of habitat and Alaska and just all kinds of crazy stuff and traveled around a bit. So if you're interested in stuff like that and Just like the sound of my voice. Then check that out. I love that. We'll have to have you back on the show to talk about something like below dockers. Yes I love a Lotta K- as okay. We'll put that on the the schedule. That sounds awesome. Nice talking to you guys really nice talking to you too. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did talking about one of my favourite TV shows of all time survivor. And if there's anything else that you want me to deep dive I'd be more than happy to just let me know on instagram twitter facebook at RTP podcast. And I think that's all for me. Folks stay safe and healthy as always in your story and I'm ready to be petty sees soon bye.

Tony One Natalie White Sarah Jeff instagram Chris Underwood Amber Sandra Natalie White Mic Rob Sophie Season Michelle facebook Russell Hansen Kelly Dan MTV Russell Gender Dynamics Ben Hannah