17 Episode results for "Tony Levin"

The Imbalanced History Of Rock And Roll: Peter Gabriel's So- A Collaborative Masterpiece

Rock N Roll Archaeology

49:50 min | 5 months ago

The Imbalanced History Of Rock And Roll: Peter Gabriel's So- A Collaborative Masterpiece

"Hairspray hey marcus, how you doing not too bad. Not Too bad. Woke up a little bit sore after a big bike ride yesterday and did what I tend to do when I wake up really sore is grab a little CBD and I'm feeling better. That's good. You know our joints don't take exercise in extreme activities very well, the older we get and a lot of people are younger experiencing the same thing. That's why we're pretty excited about our sponsor one CBD and a lot of people seem interested in the fact that one CBD's consciously created they use one hundred percent organic sources. They employ a holistic removal of all the THC and they select the best strains and the strain is very. Important when working with controlling pain are also hall and Kosher compliant. They are non GMO. They're made in the U. S. A. M. we've set it up so that you can save twenty percents off your first order. When you use the code balance I I don't know we're we're imbalanced but we're using the code ballads. So keep that in mind you go to one CB DOT COM. That's N. E. DOT COM, and they're at one. CB Life on twitter if you WANNA follow him there CBD in All Forms Liquid Gel, cavs, and they give you the choice all you have to do is hit their website one CBD dot com it's one cbd manage your pain and achieve a renewed sense of balance. Recoup. Checking in on the melons history of rock and roll. Hey Marcus how you doing man I'm doing fantastic. How about yourself? You know we've been doing a little traveling on the podcast. Can I talk you in the jumping into the imbalance time machine and gone back to the eighties with me? Totally I am totally game with going back to the eighties you want to bath England where there was a burgeoning recording seeing going on because of home recording basically, I've never been to England. So. Yes. I am all about gone to bath and I might need a bath, but we're going to start this episode of the amount history of rock and roll. Anyway we're talking about going to bath England because that is where Peter, Gabriel set up shop. When he started going Solo, he converted Asham House into his studio away from studios. He had the house right and he had that old barn that we saw in the documentary both just watch. We'll talk about that a little bit. and He created his musical universe in a converted barn with the studio that he built right there at his house in bath. So that's why we're going to bat see Peter Really it's not surprising that Peter Gabriel built a studio in a building on some property. He's totally the type of person and musician that would do something like that. And you get that vibe from him because of how he's been over the years with not only is genesis music titled Solo Albums, and each one of them conceptually awesome and very different but you can tell that he put a lot of time into. All of those records you're heading in the right direction. Bro, that's all I'm GONNA say and the way we get the head in any direction is because of our sponsors one CBD Check Amended O. E. CBD DOT, com, and by crooked Iberian, the heart of hamper online crooked eye brewery dot com but we always tell people to check him out on facebook because that's where you can find out what's going on over there. Crooked I well, folks we are definitely talking about Peter Gabriel this week on the podcast and specifically we want to focus. On one of the greatest albums of the eighties recorded at Ashkelon House with Daniel and Wa and a cast. That is amazing. We're talking about so the classic Peter Gabriel Album here on the imbalance history of rock and roll you know Ray I still remember hearing this album for the first time I gotta be honest with you. I cannot remember the first song I heard I, remember heading over to wax Trax records in Denver Colorado. Buying the album and playing it from start to finish over and over and over it's still is Mr. Man. Very end it reflected everything that Gabriel had been doing solo up to that point basically said look I'm putting it all together here, and this is the best stuff I have. Now Dan did an amazing job. We should talk for a second about the documentary you turn me onto, which is a classic albums I guess it was on access I, cut it on Prime Video And it's basically a documentary of the making the album. So I don't know man I learned so much. I. Felt like I didn't know anything when I started watching I, know the the amount of knowledge that was thrown out and just the amount of cool information that everybody's shared about the behind the scenes work and how it all flow together and how it all came together was incredible and to hear it from Daniel Anwar's perspective as well as like Tony Levin and Modern Caccia came in and spell other people. And Yeah Yeah. So some great people really spoke about their part in this masterpiece of an album it's one of those albums that's as close to perfect as it gets, and there are many of those in the rock and Roll World I. I really really am looking forward to digging in and talking about this and just all of their cool perspectives and who's on this album because I think a lot of that gets overlooked when you think about this album, people don't go into those details as much because there's a lot man that's all. A Lot look at Peter Gabriel before we get into talking about so look at where he came from Genesis of course, the early days of genesis he gets to the lamb. Feel, something, different happening, and in the documentary David Frikkie from rolling stone talks I don't always see eye to eye with him when he's on these documentaries and stuff. But the one thing that he said was absolutely true when you look at it and think about the first four solo albums are more of a continuum rather than individual concepts records. It is a continuum of something that Gabriel was working on in together they are pure genius individually they are amazing records that set a career in motion that takes us to nineteen, eighty, six and one of the. People that I actually know that was in that documentary Gary Gersh was in the middle of that he worked for Geffen records at the time they'd had them for a couple of records and they were looking forward to a new album from Peter Brian. Gabriel but they had no idea what was going on what was taking so long over there in the country and bath England right from what everybody said in the documentary the one year to make that album was the fastest album Peter Gabriel had made at that point this home recording at the barn in the. Backyard taken you know a pot of coffee and some lunch in walking across the yard with the dog and going to work it. Kind of gives you that opportunity to do it or not do it work in the middle of the night or whatever you want to do, and that became his norm out there. There's connections to this man in Philadelphia the support in love that he got on the radio in Philadelphia for those first four solo records unbelievable because it wasn't happening everywhere. So we got a different perspective here and that was before you came to. Town what was Denver thinking a Peter Gabriel going into the so record I know his earlier stuff from the self titled Albums was getting played on like k. z. y., and some of the Rock radio stations because they had that a oh, are five that not vibe but they were aor radio stations just like w Amar was. So we got to hear a bunch of the songs they went very deep on it at that time it was before so before so they d I definitely heard Biko on the radio I definitely heard Games without frontiers on the radio. That I feel are amazing in that everybody should know and I'm glad to hear that another major cities like Denver got to hear some of them on the radio, which is how we got exposed music for the most part. In. Salisbury Hill another just brilliant song. Yes we can D- were wrecked. We really could yet, but can we talk about the album so I don't WanNa talk about how many it sold them, where it charted and all that we talked about the music and who helped put it together and how and that's where the documentary really really gave us a lot to go one daniel landlord lived in that bar. Pretty. Much for a year and P. wouldn't Peter Gabriel reach out to them and said, Hey, do you wanna work on the next album with me after Lan wa did the Birdie soundtrack with them? He told him much. You're going to be here for a year Sherman I LSU and there was thought of going with a different producer but having done birdie they really felt like. They had a connection there. The other people that spoke in the documentary also spoke highly of their chemistry in the booth as well, and you heard that throughout the entire process and with the engineers to part of the discussion was the song. Sledgehammer. Which Peter Actually had written for what would be his next record he wasn't planning on it being on. So that kind of. Surprised me because you think it's the first thing. Most of US heard from the album it hit you in the head like a sledgehammer. It just had all the elements that you needed to go. Wow this is exciting stuff. Right in almost didn't make it onto one of the biggest outside of the eighties. That's my point about that shoe another one of those few who? I now, who knew moments think about it and that video is absolutely groundbreaking they changed. The video I mean what they did with the claymation and how they put it together and they talk a little bit about it in the documentary is unbelievable Peter one of the many fantastic and and just really cool things about him is that he likes to bend everything in a way that it hasn't been done before he likes to try new things and the way he. Makes a beats into his pop music and his rock and roll music on this album is fantastic and he took so many different styles and put them together to make this album. I can only imagine they were knee deep in tape on the cutting room floor because it was done with two inch tape. The funny thing is they were GonNa have sledgehammer on the next record and That turned around as soon as they started making it because there even though it was done at the end of the sessions towards the end of the sessions, they realized that they were short even in the age of CDs you know they didn't have enough really to make a two sided vinyl album. So they talk to Laurie Anderson, they bring in. This is the picture the excellent. Bird song and it's very different than a lot of the stuff on the record, but it is compatible if you think about what that song does to balance textures, add things to the album. So there's another case where it wasn't going to be on record and ended up in there because they went. Hey, what about that we need we need something we we have room for that. It was great to see Laurie talk in the documentary. I'm a huge fan of her and her music but let's talk more about the songs on so that everybody knows I mean we got hit with so many hit records off of this I. think that was the thing that surprised probably even Gabriel he had like we've discussed pretty good air support from the people who who liked him and loved his music in the radio world in April they released sledgehammer that just takes off. We just talked about it was top of the charts, top the air place drive in sales the Khulna yards. then. They come back with don't give up a beautiful song that I absolutely adore it's one of my favorites and Dan explains in the documentary. Kate. Bush just poured emotion out. New. So they quickly change gears and come out with in your eyes. You talk about you. So Indoor Remodel Kaci and all those guys having a major influence on Gabriel sound. It's right there in it's unbelievable after hearing you door and learning about him from this album. He also did a song with Neneh Cherry called seven seconds and I ended up buying that album and his beats and his music and his songwriting is really beautiful. Could. See in. Nick the. Up We should. You GotTa Watch the documentary to get the full impact of it because they show you sue and Gabriel onstage together as brothers dancing feeling the music. Doc. And there's a Lotta Nice things that he has to say in there too. But one an amazing song in your is a huge hit for Gabriel and it keeps the tide rolling with this album. Here's something I learned during the documentary as well that they did ninety six takes or versions of inure is before they were able to cut and paste them all together to make one out of them. I. Saw that and actually had a note to talk about that and since you brought it up, most people were thinking what's the big deal? Well, in those days you didn't. You know terabytes did a data storage. You had physical two inch tapes that held twenty four tracks probably then right so you take each one weighed. Five ten pounds somewhere in there and they had ninety six of the fuckers in a wall how to decide how to put it all together like a Frankenstein right again, knee deep in tape in that studio from all of the workday did and they they laughed about the fact that Peter Gabriel would sail. That's fantastic. Do it again I? Want another take we're. Getting into talk about my new because the funny thing about him getting into the project I found was his friend kept calling him and tell him mccollum back and he thought he was being punked. So we never caught him back. So eventually Gabriel's like so what's up with your friend? You know he's not returning calls so they call them together it was one of those. Unreal. He almost blew the session because he wasn't calling him back. And his feel on these tracks. Dan does a great job of describing what they were looking for what is concerned was with bringing them in Kenny do this and he just comes in and really flavors the tracks that he's on I mean Miranda played a lot of the drums. Manute Kaci brought, and then later brought to the stage for capable is pretty incredible. I was watching the documentary my son came in and he was watching parts of the with me and he kept asking who monitor was and he loved the way he spoke and he just loved his energy I don't know what it was but out of all the people in the documentary that he saw, my son was most Ron, D'Amato Josiah. So yeah, because you something about Bonnie man that Dude's amazing. But Ninety six versions of that song. And I've heard about some crazy studios stories but that's what you have. First when you have resources, Zach, you have a bar and. Store tapes and stuff that there was no dubbing like Oh let's up this this eight bars over to an because you'd lose quality that the depth of everything so that it was literally cutting and Ken Scott talks a lot about that in his book from Abbey Road Dizzy Star about the physical part of producing those days. I can only imagine it was pretty physically grueling especially when you were. Under a lot of pressure and you had a lot of tape to go through I can only imagine how physically grueling in stressful. It was holy cow. The next track they release is in early eighty seven comes out in February and we were talking a little bit about the video technology for sledgehammer they really dig into when they talk about big time and that's another groundbreaking video from this album. When MTV was really still playing a lot of videos the way that they show you how did the Stop Action and how they did. The frame by frame painting of things that were in shot how they had a direct Gabriel the stuff about the dancing chickens all that and how they pulled it all off is in the documentary we were talking about. So that's something you want to check out if you get a chance yet, it's called classic albums. I think it's on Amazon prime or access TV. So you check it out. They have some incredible albums in that series I, think they did like ten seasons of. It but there are a lot of good albums that have been put together and rock and roll. So it's a good series to check out if you WANNA learn a little bit about some of that incredible music you're listening to. It'll tell you how they got the beginning of Red Rain, which is the next single from the album comes out in summertime somewhere in there between don't give up it in your eyes and the release. Red Rain actually met Peter Gabriel it was so cool. Did. You have a conversation with him. Well, I had to look it up marcus because there was a long time ago but it was November Thirtieth Nineteen eighty-six Peter Gabriel was in town for the so tour and I was working with John Developing Mr. he was there then and I kinda got the word that I should come to the back room of the press box at. The spectrum, the Old Philadelphia, air conditioned spectrum, which is no longer there, and when I walk in the door, there's John Sitting casually chatting with Peter Gabriel and I got to spend a few minutes with them. I just found that being around him made you feel more peaceful or relaxed, and it was really nice and he was very nice. But that was an incredible night and. Just love shows we can talk about that. Maybe in the second half, we could talk more about that because I'm still digging into the singles. We're talking about a lot of records that were released a radio and you look at it one, two, three, four major chart-topping airplay records for Peter Gabriel on the so record and that's what drove the sales and made it legend. In a documentary one of the things I really enjoy and we were talking about it a little bit before we crack the Mike's when they got to the point where sledgehammer was almost done they realized that it might sound better if they put some horns on it. And they could use the fairlight I suppose but they actually went and contracting Wayne Jackson and the memphis horns and his part in there is really funny. Actually that's who's playing those horns those trademark horns on sledgehammer. It's so funny when Wayne Talks about his participation in the recording of sledgehammer and how he was told what they wanted and he's like I can do that. We can do that no problem we got it but he was like man, all these guys are so. Weird and different, and we're good at talking to people and he was really warm and friendly. But he was like I've met basically I seemed like he was saying I've met so many musicians that are so unique and so different that I've had to learn how to adapt, adapt and be able to talk to all of them and to be able to relate to all of them and he did, and if you listen to the horns the horror, they're ferocious on that album. Read. When you're a muscle shoals studio musician and you played on hundreds and hundreds of exceptional songs become hit I think you get a feel for what's going to be a hit or not? You know what else I learned in there that I did not know before. Because of Peter's affinity for Country Music Dolly Parton was actually their first choice to do the woman's part on. Don't give up I was like. I was so shocked when I saw that on the documentary as well and the story behind this inspiration for the song is just as fascinating you know those old pictures of poor Americans during the depression and stuff they're beautiful pictures that are both sad and powerful in the same way because of the emotion that they captured and it says a lot about Peter's person and about how he cares about people funny how that Song really could apply in a broad sense right now in the world her. People need to hang in there. We know you're listening from all different points on the globe and the situation is different everywhere. But our friends and family here in the US are very concerned. Don't give up we can do this right mark. We get through it in good humor you can, and if we help even just a little bit, we're glad to do that. You know what else about that song that I thought was really fascinating was Tony Levin talking about his quote unquote unconventional string dampening method using his kids diapers to get that bass sound any different things he had like the the deadened bay sound and then he would use the the. FRETLESS. Olympic. Over Tony Levin I love that Man Tony Levin Daniel Landlo-. Monte. Caccia. Favorite parts of the documentary without a doubt because Tony Eleven in his work with King, Crimson some of my favorite in that time period his work on this album is absolutely brilliant. His just one of those musicians that you should learn about when they were doing the record Peter and. Dan decided they needed some different sounds in some different fields. So Larry Klein, and this is my reference to the recording scene in bath England Larry Klein, who at the time was married to my girlfriend Joni. Mitchell was actually doing a session nearby and got word that they might be looking for somebody to do some base work. So he went on. By, to Lasko and brought his wife with him and he laid down, Alana lines on Mercy Street 'cause he also loved poet Anne. sexton. Witches who that's on was four. So that's kind of a cool way to tie together to Larry and Johnny go to the sessions. How is it that Jones? Voice is an added somewhere in there in the layers. Of all the amazing voices, the help the comprise the vocal parts of Peter Gabriel. So she could have been on their offering that a unique sound that she has no wonder why not you know that's a very good question because a good thought to wonder because having somebody like Joni Mitchell right there near studio wall, her husband's land down some slick base. Burns. Up at the house. While you're down in the born bring jody born give me a little something for red. Rain, you know Joni there's no way. Johnny was up at the House having tea when all these musicians ernest studio please she's definitely in the midst of it. All these talking about Peter Gabriel so marcus, it's making me thirsty man I know I'm parts to we definitely spoke a lot about Peter time for a beer on the imbalance history of rock and roll. You know one of the things that I appreciate is anytime I go into crooked eye brewery right there York in Montgomery in the heart of Hafbro always feel good and that includes feeling safe about where we're hanging out you know what I'm talking about Marcus I definitely what you're talking about as during the covert pandemic, it is important that people feel safe when they're going out and about very important and crooked eye has that warm safe five and they're doing everything according to the governor's directions there the they know dance what's in everyone's best interest but they're still serving Markus that's right. Take out your growl or your crowder, your sixteen ounce cans all still there all. The wonderful flavors that you love about crooked eye brewery and don't forget when you stop in to get your take out bruise wear mask absolutely and I think one of the things that Pete and Paul and Jeff and everybody and we're learning to is that it's a constantly changing landscape when it comes to what's going on. So I would urge all of you to follow crooked eye brewery on facebook and you'll find out just what's going on there today tomorrow next week and as things change, Cook it I- brewery right in the heart of hat borough Poran the cure for what ails you since two, thousand fourteen, and we thank them for their support of the podcast. Are you refresh dre I am Marcus and ready to go on part two of our classic album dig on Peter Gabriel's. So here on the PODCAST, I wanNA talk about the songs that are on here just kind of go through them a little bit and the way that they sequence them. I thought it was interesting in the documentary and I guess this was a more common practice that I was aware of what they did because they weren't sure what order to put these songs. They recorded the front and back ends last five ten seconds of each song, and then took the clips in dubbed the monkey sets in all different ways so they could hear what? It is sad going into sledgehammer in ways that didn't end up as the secrets. So they finally go through that I. Guess they must have had a bunch of cassettes by then dad over a hundred did something like one, hundred twenty or something like that how to fuck you keep them straight that's what I'm saying I. Know It's like it's like when you get demo tapes for something you know and you put the ones in the Yep consider that this one will think about and goodbye, and so you have one hundred cassettes and there's like twenty five thirty of them in the middle and there's ten over here and. Over there. Know. Put, look it was the eighties not fully digital technology. That's why the videos that we talked about in the first half of the podcast today or even more amazing when you think about it because they couldn't just l. let's put a Pastel. Watch over them. You know what? I mean. They had actually do it. They settle on this run order and it becomes iconic classic and certainly his most successful album and he seemed very happy about it. He never really cared about commercial success. He just wanted to make the music he wanted to make. So he starts with Red Rain in they're trying to get a specific sound and they can't quite get it all from what they're recording. So who did we get sewer Coppola come in? Do some hi hats But the funny thing is is at the very beginning of the record Peter Gabriel wanted no symbols. No Hi hats and Daniel. Landlo- had the talk him into that because he was like, what are you talking about? You're GONNA need it. And the thing is that's the way Gabriel had operated all his self titled out that there was no big high end. He didn't want that as far as the sound goes, and if you think about some of the sound you get on those first four solo records explains a lot. But here the beginning he's blown away Daniels, talked him into it when they do the part where they show you how all the parts flow together when they put it together on the board for you, it's an amazing part of the documentary. So you start there it's very dramatic. into the big one that almost didn't make the records lead have right. And that opening song read rain is extremely dark extremely heavy, and then it lightens up a little bit with sledgehammer but sledgehammers still definitely has a little bit of darkness to it and boy what a booty Shaker that one is I think that's one of those songs like in black that everybody knows everybody knows sledgehammer those of us who love Kate Bush I remember seeing her for the first time on Saturday night live in the seventies and gone, Oh yeah I'm GONNA to be checking in on this one and keep it up with her career. There she is doing don't give up which we talked about a bit in the early part of the podcast. It's a song of hope one of my favorite performances ever live was Peter Gabriel in the round. I believe this may have been at the new place in South Philly Marcus and it's a phone booth on stage. It can't see the band light on the the old fashioned increase phone booth any walks up and he Uses the phone as a microphone, and he played all sides of the house, the whole things turning. so He's played all sides of the house but when it starts really getting to the dramatic part, you know he he starts walking away from the phone with you wonder how long is the cord they made it to the he could stand insisting at the end of the stage leaning on it leaning over the crowd with singing. His part into the phone own like goodness before that this was always one of my favorite songs that nobody talks about much from this album after that it became a stone cold favorite song and nobody really talk much about is that voice again co written with David Rhodes who didn't really talk much about in the documentary roads and Gabriel work together for years that's a great song. It shows you the consistency of that album. and. How song after song it stays at a super high level and doesn't let up throughout the entire album. If everybody knows sledgehammer Marcus when you flip the vinyl over and you put on in your eyes, everybody loves that's on I. Don't know anyone who has ever had a bad word to say about in your is I have to agree with you on that and say anything helped keep that big a few years later but. That song is fantastic everything about it just makes you. It hits you right in the fields. Again that whole album hit you in the fields it's the unit that he put together firing on all cylinders Tony Levin Right. You've got David Rhodes Motto Kaci. You have the extra flavors of Larry. Klein Yusuf door also on backing vocals that no one talks about much. Jim Kerr from simple minds. Yeah. No. I saw that when we were doing our prep for this and I was like, Oh, my God. Simple minds holy cow. He's like a gym drive down do the vocals. Okay. I wonder how many takes he did and it's all those little things that when you add them up, you can see it in the documentary hell Limo adds up including I never heard of Ronnie Bright, but he does the real low part on in your eyes in your And that's part of what makes the song locked in your brain. That's true. Those vocal harmonies are fantastic. The way he layered all of the voices to make it flow and to make it just move through and then Richard Tee on piano the piano is beautiful. That's. All over that. You know what? What's really great is we're kind of updating the research department. So we're developing things on the fly I actually got a proactive text from the research department while recording this podcast. Yeah. What they say, Ronnie Bright the BASS vocalists that we're talking about owning your is yeah. Any of these groups ring a bell for you the coasters, the cadillacs, the Valentine's he also sang with Jackie Wilson? We didn't even ask for help and they gave us some that. Right there shows you Peter, Gabriel's knowledge of music inside and now to be able to pull from so many different various areas there really are some places on this record. We can see his movement towards wall mad and his his own explorations of world music beginning and taking commercial shape and after that. You have. Mercy Street, which is another beautiful song from the record that I don't think enough people pay attention to. It's definitely considered a deeper cut. But again, this is an album like you should do with all rock and roll albums listened to it from front to back listen to it all the way through you get a feel for for the album when you. Listen to it all the way through and the special way especially that first time you hear at four some perspective and support Marcus my brother in his position these guys went to the trouble to make one hundred cassettes to figure out what order to put these songs in to make an album. It meant something it means something and you know what I found even. If you're a spotify person, he just listened a lot of music on on stuff like that. You can get the album and listen to it in order. So do it yet don't don't hit it on shuffle the album on shuffle listen to it one through nine. All the way through gives you artistic intention this public service announcement from the imbalanced brothers here the history. Big Time Time brother, and I want to thank everybody for their support of what we've been doing on his fucked up. But somehow our getting there that song is another one. It's more like sledgehammer than the other songs on the album we talk debate about the video and stuff but beyond that, it's him exploring different sounds again, the lineup on that song alone is pretty solid and Stewart Copeland played the entire drum track on that song as. And that Dude's wicked I mean you've you've heard him in the police and his other stuff that he's done over the years including a lot of studio work in movie soundtracks as well. He is an incredible drummer fast as lightning and in that time that dude was lightning fast and he hits really well. So part of the crew on the next track, we do what we're told and also on that voice again is l Shankar. The violinists everybody goes because L. because is his full name is pretty amazing. It's lack Shimin Narayana just call him L. Shank. Easier again, a small player in a big production whose contributions and make a difference in hell, the album sale and how it feels. Who else came in for one Song Nile Rodgers he's a legend one song he came in and played on all these musicians came in and did that with Peter Gabriel so that tells you that some of these me what these musicians knew about Peter Gabriel and how much respect they have for him as a musician and for who he is in for what he does. So to be able to get these these kind of top tier players to come in and do this on a once you know just come in pop by do a song and then buggy pretty incredible and it says a lot about you as a musician. Now, Peter Gabriel I've been recording at the barn for a number of years right knew that it was their people. Knew if he was recording in the local community, right? Yes. Do you think that there was an element of Holy? Shit hear Gabriel's got going on over at the house you got to go over and see what's going on and when you get there and go. Oh Jim Kirkum on. We got a part for you. This was coming by Hey, can you L. Shankar over? Here Kate Bush, how are you love you hunt come on him you and spend an hour or two in the vocal booth things like that were going on against the backdrop of what they've been creating. It's so cool back to the seventies remember there were festivals and all kinds of stuff and bath. It is kind of like its own unique little community within the overall. British community. So let's talk a few minutes at least about the success of this record worldwide I realized I did copy down all the charts in US only hit number two but it was number one in the UK which when you're thinking about a man, that's probably the big thing for him and them a lot of the people who put the record together giving was. Happy with what was happening here they were selling multi-platinum and it had done something that they'd hoped would happen when they put Gabriel on the Geffen roster a couple albums before that, and that was him becoming an international superstar and along the way he got to be a spokesman for a lot of the causes, a musical styles that he was fond of just because of. What he had just achieved gold and platinum and countries like Spain and new. Zealand. In the Netherlands Hong Kong Germany, France and Belgium. It's sold everywhere on scale big time. So to speak that's on par with albums like back in black and rumors and some of those, and I know it didn't hit those numbers and sales but that kind of world domination on the charts. Is Pretty incredible I know that a lot of people like the measure that stuff like by sales, international sales and all that numbers. But when you look at an important album, the did something while giving us all joy great music and so if you at the same time, it's hard to top. Peter. Gabriel. So and that's why we're talking about it here on the podcast. One of the many great things that we discussed about this album is, is that it related to so many people of different musical backgrounds and that is the power of Peter Gabriel's world beats and understanding of putting them together to make the sound that he made. Well, think of it this way. Okay. Mentioned Dibella earlier, right? Right. He's older than me by bunch of years and then think of me where I was at an eighty six and then we're you were turning twenty right yet three different slices of American. Rock. And Roll, life as far as our ages go years apart and yet we all could agree that this was amazing. fucking record to the highest level ever people like John who were part of Peter's career path like what boat supporting the with airplay and interviews and all that stuff. This is validation of everything you believed about this man, his mass appeal, not only generational, but across the world. Gargantuan and this is the kind of music that is still not only relatable but relevant songs like give up or even more important. Than when they were written and the importance of that song because you can feel the pain and the suffering, and still the light at end of the tunnel make a big difference and that resonates strongly you know what else that song does and I think it's one of the most positive impacts it has. It inspires empathy for the people who were in the store. You're right and one other little Peter Gabriel factoid that I heard from that little amazing documentary is one of Peter Gabriel's biggest influences was Otis redding because like Peter Otis was a drummer before a Sam I saw that house like That shows you how much of a student of music. Peter. Gabriel is and we've mentioned him throughout this whole thing the man who pulled all this together we haven't really talked much about Daniel Lamont genius. He really is if you look at the wide variety of people that he's worked with from the new artists to the legends Willie Nelson Emmylou Harris he were to Neil Young Bob Dylan right you most famously produced the Joshua Tree and Achtung baby my two favorite youtube records. But he also produces bands like sports who are on the newer edge of progressive music. So he's an amazing character and when they made all this, he was still young. Bach and I didn't realize and you don't really get the picture from his look in the video but he's like late sixties now really is I think as you pointed out worth digging deeper into an might be a good reason for doing a producer series series of podcast within the podcast where we just focus on the producers just talking about what they've done and in getting. It on people's radar. So they get the bigger picture, which is part of what we're doing here growing this family tree I love learning about music and I love learning about the people behind the scenes because they all have interesting tales to share and they all have interesting stories about what was going on inside their heads at the time this music was being made. So to hear all that and to have them share all that hopefully as inspiration for people moving forward so that the next generation can create great music by learning from their predecessors Just learn research department is working overtime here. Threw me a note that says, Daniela wrote and performed the music for Billy Bob Thornton Movie Sling Blade. Did Not know that also in the making of so Daniel Anwar spoke openly about how red rain took the most out of how much of himself he put into the record you feel his side of this as well. So. down. Hey news coming down all. Connie down. A. Combing. Ono. see. and. An icon in his own right Peter. Gabriel. So this has been an interesting conversation and hopefully informative for our audience. If you've got some questions for US anytime about anything call your mother and then send us an email at. History G MAIL DOT COM. It's always there and it's a good way to stay touch and people are finding other ways. Thank you for your comments online on facebook lot of people starting to make comments about the five favorites and things like that. Give us feedback on stuff and that's a great way to stay in touch with this in real time or Israel's with you and me right? Yeah. No kidding. So check us out on facebook and balanced history rock and roll on twitter at imbalanced his stowed they never did give us the. Never will hear right and soon to be on instagram. So good ways to stay in touch. You can always find all the episodes wherever you get your podcasts including our website imbalance history, dot com. So one were plenty so so and we're ready to go settle you ready to go thanks to our sponsors. One CB tie. Thanks for all you do for us here at the podcast it's. CBD Dot Com and to the fellas at Crooked Iberian the ladies to it's a fun place to go and have a fresh trustee cold one brewed on the premises at crooked I in hamper we thank them both of their support as we head out the door for this episode of the of history of rock and roll. Everyone loves it but who listens to the lyrics we do? Spread the word around yes. WHO's back in town? Why is this my? Wires this on me. Now I didn't even like those guys. Story. Song podcast is the comedy podcast that reviews the lyrics of your favorite songs exploring the details only hinted at and speculating wildly about the plots to almost reckless degree and the boy has picked up the nickname patches because they're very poor and all his clothes of patches on it and he thinks well. The kids make fun of me but I get to go home and be with my loving family Anna. No, his dad all she calls them. Comes to peer pressure I don't want do. But if I don't go you patches, all the other kids are GonNa to be fun to me. The cool kids are coming shut up pagis loser any punches him in the arm go class join Dan Rachel and Michael. As we break down the lyrics, you've heard a thousand times but I've never thought about just leave it to us because we over think everything. Are. We also do a deep dive into the history of the song and the artist we explore the colorful backstory, the WHO, what, and where of the songs you can't get out of your head. Show of hands who here new that Rick Springfield was Austrailia. wikipedia articles started with you guys. You're not going to believe the story song podcast. We tell the story of the songs tell a story, find it wherever you listen to podcasts. The Story Song podcast is a member of the Pantheon podcast network.

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Most intriguing non-conference games in 2020 & more mailbag questions!

The Audible with Feldman And Mandel

49:19 min | 7 months ago

Most intriguing non-conference games in 2020 & more mailbag questions!

"Welcome to the audible presented by trade. Joined is always by Bruce Feldman. Bruce. We've had a couple pretty nightmare couple of quite a few very heavy episodes recently and so for today. We're going to lighten the mood a little bit, and we are opening it to you guys. The listeners in this episode is going to be entirely your football questions. All right stew so let's get to the mailbox as always you can send your questions to the audible pied at g mail, DOT COM, or first question is from mark in Pittsburgh It's a fun one in that I think it's do it gives you a good setup for what we hope will be the college football, season and stuff to get excited about which normally. These kinds of things we've probably been kicking around and discussing for already months at a time, and we really have on so here's marks question. There are a lot of great non conference matchups this year. Which Non Conference game do you think will be the most intriguing III new coach new system, new quarterback, other storylines, etc, and which one do you think will be the most significant for determining the playoff and setting up the season to come? Okay so mark has a list of references. And he used the rankings courtesy of STU, your pre postseason post spring top twenty five. Marked it a lot of the heavy lifting here and all but one of his suggestions or I should say There was only one game out of his suggestions. That stood out to me I'm going to rattle off a couple of the ones that I highlighted from mark's list. You tell me which you find the most intriguing, and which you will think will be the most significant, and then we'll follow up off of yours the first one he lists number two Alabama against what would be number twelve, according to Stu rankings USC Michigan Number twenty two against an unranked Washington team! Number, Thirteen Auburn against number. Sixteen North Carolina Number Twenty three Tennessee at number six Oklahoma number fourteen Texas at number eight Lsu. Number Three Ohio state at number five Oregon number ten. Notre Dame at number eleven Wisconsin I have a wildcard. Emma throw in there just as is one other caught my attention. It's a little bit of wild game, but it is perennial. Powerhouse North Dakota state opening the season. At Oregon which jumped out at you, so let's focus on most intriguing right now because I think you and I are going to probably have the same answer for most significant, and it's actually game. He does not have on here because I'm guessing only looking at September Games I think I gotta go. Ohio State Oregon for most intriguing. It. I I just A. It's a fun intersectional matchup. Seeing the Buckeyes go on the road to Oregon Oregon is a team that I. Think is right on the brink of playoff contention believe no idea with their quarterback situations. GonNa look like We think. We think it's going to be Taylor Shock. That's my read on it. But we just don't know how. He's going to perform especially in the second game of his career, whereas we have a pretty good read on Ohio state's quarterback justin fields. I. I just think it's A. It's kind of a statement opportunity for Oregon to show that they can line up with a perennial playoff contending team a team that it puts tons of players into the NFL. It's in Eugene so. And and it's week to I mean, there are a lot of choices there, but I think if you're saying intrigue. I gotta go that one. I would agree with you for a lot of the reasons you said You Know I. Am I'm very interested to see what happens? Texas at lsu Saint has played a lot of football. Obviously, that was a huge game for Lsu. I felt like Lsu. Kinda got Texas Best Punch from that game I think that's a big one I'm curious I it's a little bit. Maybe because more had it on his first list I gained listed in his email. Was Alabama USC because I'm fascinated to see how USC comes out this season? They've had what feels like a good offseason with a lot of positive news, which is completely flipping the direction of what it's been like when I say positive news, I'm just there's a lot of. Smaller moves that have been made whether they're assistant moves that I think are very were were shrewd moves by the. By Klay Hilton or there was some other things that I think bode well. They've obviously have a little bit of recruiting momentum, which is a big shift from where it was back in the winter, and they can be really competitive were if they can somehow win that game against Alabama. They have a real good chance. Because the next seven games are very winnable, not just a very winnable. They should be I think they should be favorites and all of them by by a healthy amount. some curious to see in that one that to me has intrigued because again. You have a really good quarterback and Keaton slow of us with with some good skill, talent, a good deal line. I don't know, can they? Can they? Can they be competitive? Yes, can they win the game I mean that that's one that. I don't think they're gonNA embarrassed like they ought embarrassed a couple of years ago in what turned out to be jalen hurts his I real action for for the time. That game one that if you'd asked me about in January, I would've said well. You remember what happened. They played this game in two thousand sixteen. USC God is ask kicked. And why is that going to be any different this year? I would say though that it shot up my list as time has gone on for a lot of the reasons you said, and I would also just point out that. This is going to be such a bizarre offseason, but it's all said and done. I think there's going to be crazy upsets in week. One like it's not going to see you know you can. You can say team has x number returning starters or this team's recruiting rankings or Factors that you would never take a million years consider basically who makes it through camp, or or beyond can't. WHO's GonNa? Make it through these last eight months where they weren't together on campus, and they were learning over zoom, and and all this stuff that you can't possibly predict. I. Think could lead to some crazy results early in the season. Maybe it normalizes itself as you go on, but you know there's usually one or two like Georgia state, Tennessee. Last year I make note made no sense. Then it made no sense as the season went on. You could have a dozen of those or more in week one. Right and so much of it I, think is going to be for limited continuity and might not much of a spring. I, also I. Hope this doesn't kind of violate what we said in the intro. The gambling aspect of what's going to happen in in college, not just college football, but in sports in general I think is going to be a fascinating subplot in terms of weight. There's a crazy line move here. Somebody knows that especially with its. It seems like there's going to be limited information. schools. are going to release about positive tests, and whether there are going to be you know I would imagine. There's going to be a lot of games that the line will be off the board. Because of X. extenuating circumstances, I mean. There's usually some games opening week. you made me think of this where there have been guys who the school has known for eight months. We're going to be suspended for the game, but they never announced it and then to art for the game. They're like. Oh, they sound a little press release that these three guys won't be available. It's going to be like that except they're only going to found out like that morning or the day before whenever they were going to be doing the testing, and they're not gonNA. Announce it. You're just GONNA to. Games gonNA start in like. Oh, where's that team's leading running back? He's nowhere to be found. He must have tested positive so I think that is also going to create a dynamic I mean if you go back to. It was the it was a game the week before my crew did Oklahoma it was Oklahoma, Baylor and cd-rom great receiver all American for Oklahoma. I think there was even a college game day feature on him, and he did not play in the Baylor game, and then there was a quite a bit of speculation that week. about what had happened, because it wasn't really disclosed why he didn't play and then. In our game the we the following week, you know. Reported that it was due to concussion protocol, but I think what you just said I think is. There's probably going to be a lot of assumptions made by people if it's like. Is this a violation of team policy because we hear that a lot now is. Whether in some cases with with some schools violated team policy could mean positive pot, test or something of that nature or who knows what and so. Again not to go down too far down that road. I would ask you so which did you? You alluded to this, but only gets set it. What is your most significant non? Yeah, it's game well, and now I see why it is on here. Mark had the caveat. I didn't include Notre. Dame ACC Games a rivalry games. Clemson at Notre Dame in early November just. First of all the timing. Yeah, I just think that a game latte late in the season is going to probably more significant in the long run than a game played September. Twelfth. It will probably I mean look you'd never know but I think an can be pretty good, which means this could be the toughest game of the season for Clemson and if it's like. If the ACC is as bad as it was last year. Actually think it'd be better, but if it's as bad as it was last year, and it's a situation where Clemson has to go undefeated to make the national title game like that's probably the game. That's going to determine it so. I mean certainly you could see getting to. Selection Sunday and the result of the Ohio State or game dictates whether one of those teams gets in or not. That's Beckett, certainly happen, but I think that clumps could have more of a real time impact in terms of somebody either. Securing or being eliminated from playoff berth. Okay, so you kind of around this a little bit, he he included I, want you know kind of maybe touch on some of these other matchups? Because there were let me say six I bolted of his list that kind of caught my eye as intriguing intrigued by Michigan against Washington. Jimmy, lakes first game as the as the huskies coach You. Know I I feel like this one. We don't know what we're going to get your. Both teams have uncertain quarterback situations. Obviously you don't have either team ranked in your top twenty. Michigan twenty two. I was surprised I made I forgot this. The Tennessee in your top twenty five. They play at Oklahoma. That was a wild game when it was in Knoxville on how many years ago probably four years ago Butch Jones was the coach It was just I. think that was Baker Mayfield's. if not debut like one of his first couple of games, the Oklahoma quarterback it'll be, it'll be an intriguing one this year because I think Tennessee could have one of the best defense in the country and one of the best offer learns in the country to. Yup Spencer Rattler will be you know. He'll be his first big game as Oklahoma's quarterback so now it could be that are being jumping jumping the gun a little bit on Tennessee. Top twenty five team, then I'm getting too excited about that gator bowl comeback against Indiana. Blaine in Virginia Dear, Bruce and STU. It's a contradiction that everyone loves on Campus College. Football Games yet wants to expand the playoff and devalue the regular season. Such that any individual game doesn't matter programs like purdue look forward to possibly spoiling a national championship season of a powerhouse, a cherished lifelong memory for program never make title game. What will these programs have look forward to now they will probably never make the playoff, and even if they upset number one Ohio. State it only affects Ohio, States Jersey. Color in the playoff. Bruce Urine eighteen guy. Tell. Talk about that. No, I think there's still some some merit to that I mean. I don't think. You know ruining the season I remember like one of the best examples I thought of. That was the David Gordon Kick for Boston College against Notre Dame was probably like nineteen, ninety, one or something like that, but I still think those monumental upsets are gonNA matter I mean look, there's there's something. People look back I. Feel like in retrospect and maybe go. Oh, this game cost them the playoff, but it didn't entirely I feel like it doesn't entirely hold up like I think you think of it. In the moment, fans stormed the field. It doesn't necessarily have to do with okay to this. Actually end up costing them or not right. I mean. Just think about some of the big losses that have happened over I want to say like the last maybe six years right and one of the ones that comes to mind as as A. Sizable none of us a shocker, 'cause Michigan state was really good, but that Michigan. State Ohio state game mean that I should scratch that because obviously. Michigan State was a top twenty five team. He's talking about programs that are completely off the grid right well, a recent example of that and So basically when once the play fourteen plan came in I mean those upset still are still significant. They don't. They're not quite as I. Mean you remember in the BCS today that Kansas state was undefeated, and got crushed by Baylor and Oregon was undefeated, and just crushing people and lost to Stanford like seventeen fourteen, and it was like that's it. Those teams aren't making the national team. Should game now you know one game? Has that kind of impact now, but they can still be pretty impactful, but it just kinda depends. I, mean that Ohio state purdue game that he's referencing couple years ago. Yeah, that that'd probably ended up. It did end up keeping House data the playoff. He didn't know that that night, but it did. But then you also think the your. Clemson won its first national title under Dabo. They lost at home to a mediocre pit team. Put in I wanNA. Say early November and in. Like they were right back in the top for the next week, so you're already kind of seeing that a little bit I do think in Eighteen playoff matters is conference I. Mean Even if you go nine and three. If you can win your conference air in the playoffs, so I do see what he's saying I think that. And it's something people that really WanNa, see a bigger playoff. Don't necessarily while on is that? It will be. It'll be very exciting, and it'll give more teams a chance to make the playoffs for the purdue's for the WHO's to say. Perdue couldn't make a playoff by the way you're I I mean I. Feel like you're completely limiting the opportunity of that. They could I think it would be a once in fifty years. GonNa throw here's. Here's the question for you. Is the gap between Perdue with Jeff as a coach that dramatically different than it is with Minnesota right now. You mean is it is? Are you saying why couldn't produce be half a season like Minnesota had Lashkar? They could yeah, I mean. I'm thinking I mean the only time I think purdue won the big ten in the last fifty years was with drew brees, and they went like four so. It's possible. That's not going to happen very often. I think I mean if you look at it and I not do. I haven't researched this, but I can think about some of the talent there I mean. Per to has has landed probably as much high profile talent. I would say in the last few years as Minnesota did. Right Rondell more car. Leftists who are predicting Minnesota's GonNa make the playoffs under PJ flack. No but Minnesota at was was actually in the discussion I'm not saying obviously. They didn't get there, but they were in the discussion. and. Again the gap between Minnesota and purdue. I don't think. This is no knock on PJ. Lacquer no knock on Minnesota. It's. We're not talking about the gap between. Let's say Michigan as a profile or as a brand certainly Ohio state at at but again. You know I think that you're maybe and this isn't really probably where Blaine wanted to go on. Maybe he just kind of brought up to, but. I, don't I think you still have at least a chance? If if there is I had a better chance of that in the days before conference title Games. Like my beloved ninety five North Western team. didn't have to play. Ohio state that year with absolutely looted Ohio state team like you could miss. You could miss certain opponents now. You've got to play in the championship game. You'RE NOT GONNA. Catch any breaks that way you may catch breaks to win your division, but you're still going to have to. At some point. Face the Juggernaut in conference I think basically it comes down to like. Ballgames been devalued, but for like Indiana. Last year was still big deal to go play in the gator bowl. That was a that was a successful season for them. Will it still feel that way? In eighteen playoff, or will it just be while we were eliminated from playoff contention in week six, and it just Kinda didn't matter after that. Let's say this so again. I don't want to harp too much on perdue with this, but. I'm guessing when when Bill Schneider was the head coach got to be the head coach K. State. Nobody saw that coming right right, and so if you build a really good program. and. It continues to develop. You least have a shot to be there and I think you would have a better shot. If you would put that model in place back then I think K. state would have had would have been in a decent position again. Nobody nobody was talking about K.. State and K., state was further away from from competing for championship. Certainly, purdue is. Dan Meyer in my written mail back then went up on. The day that we're recording this on Wednesday somebody kind of blew my mind for him to nominate pointed out that twenty fifty. Is it which seems like a long time? The future is as close to today as nineteen ninety. And, so he was like what complete what what programs you would never know. Million Years Think will be a top twenty. Five fixture will be that team twenty fifty, which is a complete guess. so I looked back to nineteen ninety, and in nineteen ninety nobody in a million years would have guessed that would come a time. When Oregon and Wisconsin were regular, top twenty five teams, organs made National Championship Games Wisconsin's plan however may rose bowls, so anything is possible in terms of program that is completely off the radar now building itself into that but for most of them. It's still going to be A. Wake forest had that one dream season in two thousand six is not going to happen again anytime soon. Look Kansas Markman Gina was actually very good towards the end, so yeah so that was also in my written mailbag today. Clearly, it's on your mind. I read it this morning. Stu Yeah Mark Mangino on the brain. Back to the podcast in a second, but first a word about our sponsor Hawthorne Guys. Let's be honest. Smelling good is important I think you would all agree I. Think your significant others would agree. And having received my Hawthorne Body Wash and Shampoo and deodorant I can confirm. Hawthorne Smells Really Good. It's a very cool ordering experience you go on the site and they and you take a quiz about all your various preferences, and they customize it from a ton of different combinations recommend which products would be best for you. I'm very satisfied with the products I received, and I can tell you that my wife is very satisfied with the products they received. She actually complimented me on. How Nice I smell! Now check out Hawthorne at Hawthorn Dot Co that's Hawthorne with an e and Dot Co dot dot Com cawthorn dot, Co, and use our Promo Code audible to get ten percent off your first purchase. That's Hawthorne Dot Co. use our Promo Code audible to get ten percent off your first purchase Hawthorne Dot Co.. all right discussed from Andrew Hey guys in the seemingly never-ending discussion about coaches on the hot seat. Who are some examples of a coach on the hot? See who you feel could have turned things around. If only the school had shown a little more patience for me, it was rick new highs. LA- my Alma Mater. Washington I realize he was on the hot seat for non football reasons. Reasons in Francis, lying about interviewing the forty niners job and participating in March madness pool, but I don't think his actions warranted dismissal a suspension. Yes, which really set the program back for years? Okay Stu I. have some some thoughts on this. What comes to mind when you think of guys who pro might have got the plug pulled on them too soon. one that comes to mind. Actually now I think about the involve the same school I mean I think that David Cook. Lift got the got pulled too soon at Ole Miss. We've seen what a what a great head coach he is by what he's done. At Duke, and I think the ceiling would have been higher at Ole Miss. You, you also wonder given given who Eto Doron turned into I. Mean nobody would dispute those three rough years, but if he comes back the next year with Jevons Nita's his quarterback. Is it possible on my saying he became win the national title there, but that he that his the whole trajectory of of that program his career ago, considerably different, because remember Houston Nutt took over and immediately one. Eight or nine games the next year. Yeah. He went to back to back con- bowls because I can speak to that one pretty pretty well. As you said he would had snead a lot of those best players that he had were freshmen and sophomores. What's interesting to me? Is and I will in full disclosure I've worked on a book with him. This offseason called flip the script and it really gets into a little of that low. That's the first time we heard the name. That is the first time we lived the script. So some of the things that I think are in place are. Would have had much more successful. Miss Yes, I'm convinced because I think the way they were recruiting in the foundation was building. Would he become the same coach? He has proven to be now at Lsu. It's interesting to look at that because as we get into this allot a book. There's a lot of things that I think. He did. A lot of self. Reflection looked in the mirror and evaluated a lot of things, and I think the struggles that he had offered. To that degree, and maybe because it's you're going through a really devastating situation when you get fired, it forces you to be more introspective than maybe a lot of football coaches are a lot of people in general would wanna be so it may have prompted more. The changes I had a couple of other names that came to mind and one of them was really Rigas at Michigan. Now? We know this was not a great fit out of the gate. He did not jump into an ideal situation for him to go in there they were woeful. The first year they got a little better, and then they got a little better he they went from three wins. The five wins the seven wind, and they were really bad on defense and then. You know what like after that going forward. Brady, hoke came in Brady Hoke was Michigan Guy and they still had Denard Robinson. And they won eleven games Brady hoax first year with rich rods players. I think anybody who watch what he did it at. Arizona knows he's a really good football coach. There's A. You know he's a demanding super intense guy, but. I would have been curious to see what would have happened if retry got a little more time I don't think people forget how good of a coach he is. And then one other name I was going GonNa. Throw at you, I. also you know wrote Down Mark Helfferich. Like like huck. You had one really bad year and they pulled the plug. I don't know things felt like they were they were. Backsliding there, but the other name I was going to say is Tony Levin at Houston. They they pull the plug in a hurry there and they brought in Tom Herman and Tom Herman, one big with his players and then Tom Herman left. You know twenty million base that the same record I think the year he got fired that Tom had when he got the Texas. Job Actually. So. I don't know. What do you think I think? The with the rich rod situation I mean. Look the Michigan turned out to be an liar, right? He won Big West Virginia. He took. Arizona had ten win. Season Arizona shoot. If you watch that Lsu game last year, you know about rich route in his offense, but. There were so much off the field so much. Just noise and baggage like remember there was that whole. Month long feud about who is going to pay. Is West Virginia Buyout and then there was a investigation. It just seemed doomed from the start. You know regardless of whether. His often whether they would've had a better defense the next year, and all those things like I just think that a big chunk of that fan base had written him off and that happens. We've seen I. Mean I think that's what happened. Willie, Taggart! There was no He had such a bad initial impression that there was going to be That, there was going to be no No wiggle room there so. That you have to kind of factor that in as well. What you think the Tony Levin. One because you know. Obviously, he is out of coaching now. He has a chick-fil-a business in the Houston area, but again now he this is. This is why I think the question is fascinating and Richards different in that retried was not a first time head coach at on who you mentioned was a first time head coach. In an SEC program so I, think you are learning on the fly on a in a relatively big stage. Tony Levin was a first time. Head coach followed up someone. I think Tony Levin Really whiffed on his first offense. Coordinator Higher and that they had a rough. Go Out of the gate. We've seen that. The leadership at Houston is incredibly volatile. To put it mildly you know the his last season. The team goes eight and five. Again then the next year Tom Herman comes in and he. has a huge season and then the next year, which would have been Tom. I guess it's Tom, second year he goes nine and four and has the same record in the A. C. Five three. What do you think? I think you're much more familiar. With the inner workings of the Tony Tony Levin regime than. but You. Don't see a lot of examples where first time head coach. Well you don't feel examples where the first for where the first time head coach who who flounders. Gets a second chance and redeems himself on his obviously the exception but you know if you WanNa, blame will must champs. At the time wanted to blame, we'll Muss Champs Florida tenure on him. Being first time head coach was like things have gotten much differently at South Carolina so I think it depends on how much you learn from the experiences you have, and then you know and I've made this point several times. You know in stories in also on the podcast. I'm sure is the most. The biggest aspect isn't whether you win the press conference on Day One. It is how well you put a staff together and sometimes and I think it certainly happened with all champ at Florida and it happened with Tony Levin at Houston If you miss a couple of critical hires. You're digging out of a big hole, and you may not be able to get out of it because depending on how volatile the leadership how much they trust you and whatnot, or how much pressures on them it's just. It's hard to undo that. Michael in Atlanta enjoy the PODCAST. Guys, thanks for providing us the great content, even though we may not always agree. Do you think there's a bias towards office? Offensive minded coach in College Football Reading Athlons, Recent head coaching ranks where they put Dan Mullen ahead of curb smart. or where you guys constantly but. The head of Kirby though Kirby's Def- is this the same person who's constantly writing in into to get on us about Lincoln. Riley out of curry can't remember though curry's defenses performed better than Riley's offense, tougher league, and he's beating them head to head Mike Leach gets a lot of love is an offensive genius, but defensive-minded head coaches appear to fail to get similar love especially up and coming coaches. I think Michael has a point here to some degree. I still would hold up Lincoln Riley ahead of Kirby at this point And I down loans a really good coach, but I don't know if I would put him quite ahead of Kirby at Michael's email. He does mention that. Kirby Smart has beaten Dan Mullen three years in a row Look, when I went back and looked at my top twenty five rankings of coaches this year. There's a couple of guys who are defensive-minded guys who I had high on my ranking, probably had them higher than most people did, and that's Kyle Wittingham Gary Patterson. But then I feel like there is. The, there is something to be said for its I. Feel like it's easier for the for the people who cover the sport whether it's the people announcing the games or writing about them to kind of gravitate towards Lincoln Riley as a play caller or Dan Mullen in this case as a play caller or certainly. Mike Leach I mean it's. It's a little easier. You know the the. The cliche is often sells tickets and I. Think they create a buzz with that, and it's just easier for people to grasp. Grab onto scheme that on the offensive side of the ball even when it's defensive. Guys I. Don't necessarily think people look at them. Define him as defensive guys now. Nick Sabin, they certainly do as I you know my examples. Gary Patterson and and And and Kyle Wittingham. Hold Up, then you start to get into. It's just not a Lotta. Guys right now. I mean you could put. We both had oprah on our top five I. Don't know that you know because he wasn't. He was a defensive coordinator for one season in the SEC at Ole Miss, but for the most part people unless you were a coordinator, a level I think they don't see it that way, but you can kind of go through the list here whether it was James Franklin or Jimbo. Fisher I mean there's a lot more than you know then what? Than what Michael talked about Scott. Satterfield fits into that category. Former OC I think there's is. Matt Campbell even though he's a defensive player, was was an offensive coordinator. David Shaw was an offensive guy You know Paul Chryst so there's there's just a lot of them. Just kinda piles well. Just look at who gets the Big Hey coaching jobs, right? Tom Herman Offensive Guy. Head coach at Texas Mike Norval, exciting offenses at Memphis gets the Florida state job meanwhile. Brent Venables still still still defensive coordinator is Brent Venables choice though but I. Have you ever heard of I mean? Kirby smart did get a huge job and you mentioned a minute ago. Will Champ got a huge job? I mean and it has happened Dave Aranda by the way got. You know got a really good job I think that's the difference right there. You know, David Rhonda. Link Bob Stoops handed over the keys to one of the most successful programs of all time to first time head coach because he's an offensive guru Dave Randa has been one of if not the most respected defense coordinators for years, and when he finally gets the opportunity, it's at Baylor, which is a good program, but not a Blueblood so I- Lincoln Riley Physically Air Lincoln Riley. Was There Ryan Day was there. That's part of why they got elevated into those jobs I think. Yeah I think it's a combination of there. Aren't I mean Jimmy Lakes Jimmy Lake just got the Washington. That's a really good job, and I think he never happens I'm saying that. Flip a coin. It's usually going to go to the just think it's easier to sell to the fans and the boosters. Hey, here comes the guy who who who put up forty fifty point game his last job versus here's a guy who's very respected for his defensive game plans, so I don't know I i. think that's a little of a stretch I mean. Pat doozy gotTA good power. Five Job Jeff Half Li got a pretty good power five. Yours is about you know. Mid Level Power Five I. Know, but I mean we're also. We also talked about Georgia and Florida and Washington Hurry Smart Marketing Georgia. Florida the most will most jail the one I mean. You GotTa go back to? Oklahoma hired Bob stoops as a first time head coach because he was Steve's really good defense coordinator for Steve Spurrier and Gosh I mean. How often does that ever happened? Since then? It's almost always the offensive guy. That's not true I mean. We'll must have got a big job. We'll must chant. Yes, we'll must your will. muschamp gotTA gotTa Blueblood. Known as a deep. Does it seem like it's? It's almost like. An SEC better have a Nick Sabin connection same connection, but also we're were mentioning SEC defensive coordinators Whereas that guys that come out of the pack twelve big twelve like their offensive guys well, Jim Jimmy Lake got one of the probably the three best jobs in the PAC twelve just now granted. He was there, but I think there is something to be said for that look Brent Bret. BIELEMA got really good job at Wisconsin that he was there, but that was a strong program when he got it. Years ago. So where are we landing on this offense of bias or no? Yes offense a bias. I just don't think it's quite as egregious. As! Factors into the rankings yeah, maybe so okay. You asked us Byu question all right. Hey, doing bruce, is Byu really benefiting from a from being football independent? I realize is that they've gotten their own TV deal with ESPN, but from a scheduling standpoint it seems like a tough proposition and one that doesn't afford them an opportunity to have significant success I assume they are hoping slash wanting to be offered a spot in the PAC twelve or Or Big twelve when the next round of conference realignment and expansion happen, but I feel they've slid into mediocrity, and they're quote. Unquote brand has become almost nonexistent on the college football scene. Thanks Chris I. Get asked this question so often. In fact I feel like I do radio interviews in Salt Lake City every year, or they asked US exact same question. Do you think they've been better off being an independent or not and I personally think it's been The I personally Thi- What they don't WanNa do is they don't want to go. S-, linking back to the mountain west, and admitting defeat, like certainly they would take an invite to power five conference. They obviously want want that, but they'd rather be an independent. Go back to the mountain west. I think they should go back to the mountain west me. I'm not I don't have A. Personal Pride or investment in it now, they would tell you that the deal they're getting. The ESPN is better than what they would get as a member of the mountain west, and that's probably true and that you know for a school that has frankly international base that that's more important. The exposure is more important, but the end of the day. Notre, Dame can be an independent and remain. In. Everybody's on everybody's radar all year unless they're having a really bad year and then they have the ACC Spol- partner so even if they don't get into one of the New Year six, they they know they're going to get into A. You know whatever it's called now. What which one was the second one in Orlando? As. The one that used to be the champs sports. Bowl Gosh they just I. Think I think they are that camping roble, and now believe it or not. They are the new cheese at bowl I'M GONNA have to refresh my to a refresher on bowl sponsors for this year Byu basically. Where you see value the most like the first three or four weeks right? They played Tennessee last year. They played USC. They played Washington. You know those were games that were on ESPN and. But then they're they just. You. Know unless they're going to have an undefeated season. They're completely out of sight out of mind those last two months, and then they don't actually have like. Don't you think it would be better if they were in the mix for that group of five? New Year six birth that Memphis last year UCF got. They don't have that they have to. Finish, rang tyler enough to be picked as an at large team. That's obviously very hard to do. Yeah I mean a lot of ways, the discussion became about like we're kind of like. Notre. Dame and my one counter that and this is not meant to be disrespectful to the Byu fan base at all, but like. I agree with you when you say they have an international fan base and following, and they do have really rich football history, the the thing that one of the things that elevates Notre Dame as a TV ratings by is. It's not just their fans. People tune in Them to watch them hoping that they lose right I. Don't think many people who seen Byu through that prism. You may get some Utah fans see them through that prism, but I just don't think you're going to get anybody in the SEC or hardly anybody in the big ten footprint to tune in and watch a Byu Washington game, and they are rooting even if they're not Washington fans, 'cause they. You know that's that is the that is the spirit. I think some of the Notre Dame Notre Dame? Spirit that. Comes with with seeing them as a why their TV ratings often are really good is just because I'm sure there are a lot of people who watched. It didn't minds even weren't Michigan fans that didn't mind seeing Michigan. RIP THEM UP I know. There are a lot of people who probably rooted for Miami of even if they didn't like Miami when they were playing Notre Dame then because they didn't like Lou Holtz, or they didn't like Notre, dame, so, Notre Dame is one of those teams that you know. Your grandfather, who doesn't who doesn't follow college football that closely anymore, but if they see Notre Dame flipping the dial, Notre Dame's on. They're gonNA. Stop and watch their game. Right like Ohio state or or somebody like that. That's not the case with Byu. I feel bad for Byu because. They, they do deserve better than what they I mean. They are in terms of having a sixty thousand seat stadium, and they won a national title and the heisman winner like they're more power five program in many respects than a lot of the current power five programs. They just don't have a home, so they're kind of in this weird. no-man's-land right now. This is from Gordon Athens's sports writers who were trying to take us take in as much relevant information as you can. How do you guys watch a football game specifically? When the ball is snapped, usually focus on specific players were just follow the ball. I'm going to be interested to on your part of this. Because you have a different vantage point than than any of us, but it is so if I'm watching on TV it's I'm following the ball it's it's you know unless you're watching like the all twenty two film. After the fact, it's hard to do otherwise just how the whole broadcast is. Produced around the ball. If I'm in the stadium up in the press box, that's probably still the case, the overwhelming majority of the time, but what you're able to do more. In the in the press boxer in the stands is is watched the defense. You know if you're watching Alabama LSU game. That's full of future NFL defensive players. I like to maybe focus on Derek. Stanley Cup of Place Watch him play, or or you name it right Quinton Williams and it's harder to do that on TV. Yeah I'm pick my spots on on this just from being on the sideline, my vantage point is going to vary. But I'm looking to see whatever our story lines were trying to follow because quite honestly Joe. Davis are play by play guy. He's the one who's on top of the ball. I hear Joe. I'm listening to the broadcast and I'm listening to our our producer at the same time in my ear so. I'm really trying to see either specific match ups that maybe I can go into or things like that I want to. I'm very mindful before the snap of personnel very mindful of of. Formations and then from there I try to pick my spots on where I'm GonNa, wear I'm going to tr-. Train my eyes and it it varies, but you know because you're so. The the job is so incumbent on. Really fleshing out the storylines almost like being where the. Viewer, isn't you gotTa pick the other spots to complement the broadcast. This next one is from Colin in England. I'm not going to try to pronounce the town. Listening to your comments about Lsu year seems like they could go anywhere from twelve in one, two, seven and five. What has been the worst defending national champions you have seen. That's easy the. New Year after I think Yeah I would agree with Cam Newton I don't see them as seven and five I think the floor relish. She was probably nine and three. from talking to their coaches this week. They feel like they're really really going to be good on defense. The obviously have some stud receivers. The question is going to be. How good is the quarterback in a be? You know they have really good receivers I the I think they'll be fine on the offensive line. They had to replace four starters three-star depending on how you categorize Ingram, but. I think they'll be very good because they're going to be really good on defense now is miles. Brennan GonNa have anywhere near the numbers. Joe Borough had last year I. Don't think so. Will he have I think our colleague who covers Lsu Brodie? Miller had said if it was thirty. Touchdown passes, which would be a huge year normally by analogy quarterback, but it would be about half the numbers Joe. Borough put up last year so I think he will I think he will do at least that but You know somewhere to me I. think there are nine or ten when team I would agree with you on Auburn just because. That was cam. Newton show when they left. Just felt like I, don't see the bottom dropped out, but it just seems like a completely different Texas. Game will be interesting because I mean. It was a very competitive the wire game last year, and now you've got same etlinger back for Texas. lsu breaking in the new quarterback, so is I think it's one of those games that. LSU will be favored, but it's not as obvious I mean it could go I wouldn't be surprised if the result either way. in terms of that you know that Auburn Team so that twenty ten team. We've talked about this many times. I'm not sure if there's ever been a national champion, or at least in the modern era, produce fewer NFL players in that team. Did it was the Cam Newton Nick Fairley show, and so the next year I remember actually went to their spring game the next year and I didn't recognize almost any of the players like it was like they had like seven starters back or something like that, and it wasn't a great talent base to begin with. That's not Lsu Yes, they lost you name the star player from last year's team. They lost almost all misting was a freshman. But there's still a lot of talent. I mean they still. SEAVER was the yeah, the best receiver in the country. Still there they had eight or nine guys turned pro early, and I believe all but one. God drafted one more time for one more I think we do this one's from blaze. Hi, Bruce and Stewart do oh, season DC's have buyout clauses in their contracts. If so, what dollars are we talking about? If not how long four happens and becomes irregular thing they do now one thing you got to keep in mind as a lot of assistant, coaches don't have multi year contract so I think that makes it a little more little more problematic to to sort through this. It certainly varies. But there are things that are in place where. You. Know! How do you get out from under a deal? If things go bad, because remember, and this is something I would say use the example of USC so and we talked about this on this podcast back in the winter when we were reporting that USC was not likely to fire Clay Helton and part of that was because how much money it would cost to UC had multi year contracts to get out from under all those deals, and then bring a new staff, and you're talking about forty five to fifty million dollars So that's. Looking at it in the context of this by the way I think this is another thing that might have come up in your mail bag that I read this morning. As it relates to coaching changes because schools will probably not have a lot of money to play with that. They may be hamstrung to make some changes if they feel like. Hey, we want to make a move on this. Can we raise the money for a buyout to get rid of this coach now if you add in assistant coaches, who are do certain deals and they vary went when also? When? When the deals come up, somebody may only be there till like signing day or whatnot, so it's easier to get out from under those, but that depends on how much how much fluid cash that they feel like they have to make. Some of these changes are right. You know this. This is the most fun I've had doing the audubon awhile for forty five minutes I was able to at least. I mean we did bring up the. Don't bring brands that we brought it up. We it was unavoidable in that non, conference games question, but for the most part we, we put real world concerns aside for forty five minutes, and just talk ball and I. Think we should try to do that more often. Obviously, sometimes, we gotta cover the news though but This was fun Bruce. Let's do it again all right and again for all your questions, please send them to the pod at email. DOT, com and You enjoy the audible. Please subscribe on Apple podcasts. Who will play spotify wherever you get your podcast? Leave us a review and a rating. If you could to help us get the word out our producer John Hayes. Our theme song is dangerous by Kevin, and the octaves download their music on spotify or apple music. Follow me on Twitter Sa L. Mandel. Follow Bruce at Bruce Feldman, C. F., B. and if you're not yet a subscriber to the athletic. What are you waiting for? You can get forty percent off of subscription by using this link. Athletic Dot com slash audible. That's forty percent off your subscription to. A.

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In Search of the New Compassionate Male with guest Ian MacKenzie

In Search of the New Compassionate Male

1:01:43 hr | 6 months ago

In Search of the New Compassionate Male with guest Ian MacKenzie

"Hi! This is Clay Boykin and I am in search of the new Compassionate Mail. Today my producer Dennis Start on and I had the opportunity to visit with and Mackenzie Award, winning filmmaker, author and speaker. Here's that conversation. Hello, world, it's me. Dennis I'm the producer of a conversation with and in search of with clay. Boykin Hello Clay Hi Dennis. How are you today? But we are in search of the new Compassionate Mail, and we found one captured in captivity from off the coast of Canada right had near Vancouver his name. Is Ian Mackenzie Hello Ian? Thank you one of the things when clay were talking right beforehand. One of the things that we wanted to to learn from you is that you have spent so much of your times filmmaker? Working in the field of women's empowerment, helping to unleash the divine feminine, unleashed that, and so could could you talk about that journey and what impelled you to go there? So we could understand a little bit more about you and your history, who was born in Nineteen, eighty, one I understand that correct. All right. You're eighty one. I was forty eight clay. Gosh well I'm sixty six now so dry mass all right, so that gives us an. Across history of where we are so now now take it away in. Thank you? I think the product referring to is called, amplify her, which s yeah, which is. Initially started as an idea for a documentary film. But more about that. But then from the initial idea of a documentary film connected with the CO producer director named Nicole Sorkin and it expanded and became the motion comic series, a graphic novel soundtrack like a whole, a whole universe, which is still actually being released. These his and. So that journey for me, really launched when. I like maybe like all good stories. It starts with this one time at burning man. And I was I been going to that. Kind of. To call on a festival per se, but it's like a gathering a confluence in the desert and back There's maybe Tony Tony Levin or so. I experienced an artist are particular artist named apple cat who she was combining some kind of. Combination of this. Dark, but caused mic. You know something alchemy with your music and I had already done a little bit of sort of mythological exploration, and the archetype came forward of the dark feminine think, there's something about that question over that meant and That really launched me on this inquiry of like you know what what she doing does. She know she's doing it? And and what is that particular something? She's doing and that launched again. Again like an inquiry I interviewed her, and then that became kind of thread that was pulled where I really dove into kind of archetypal exploration of this side of the feminine. which you know I, think largely women in this culture tend to be a look to for particular qualities of nurturance of compassion Just you know I would call them more like light qualities, qualities of the light and they're not really allowed to be. Be Or to a body qualities concerned more at the dark or the shadow or the underworld. You know whereas in the past of course had a very holistic kind of allowance for the full spectrum, and I think part of a lot of the women's resurgence now at least in this latest wave I think building upon you know the books of something like Clarisa. Pinkel is and in other kind of Gender Myth missile mythology. Mythology, you could say that. There's been a real resurgence and I. Even noticed in pop culture. You know after I started exploring this that there was a lot of this kind of terminology was being used, and and this kind of revolt of the patriarchal daughter could be one way to think about it as well that women are saying no more. I'm not willing to to be in that dynamic anymore, and they're claiming their power. So using the mythological ends through. You know something that can be very esoteric like again this idea of the rise of the feminine. I felt like well. What if we told the story through these artists, the through these deejays and producers. And you know. Could we make it more visible that way to see the real life stories and we did, and then we also projected them into the mythological round where they really claimed their own origins. In their gifts that had come from the woods. You Been? This this what we've been doing in What I joined clay recently I said recently and. Less than a year. Is that because clay you been in search of the new compassionate male? This is the new archetype where we're trying to. We're talking about how the how if the Patriarchy is a crumbling in the quantum age in what we're doing an Galina. Not What is going to replace it so here? We have the new architect for the women as doing and Klay. This has been your journey well, yes, and. I was really excited Ian I was just listening to your. Interview with with Michael Need. What a powerful powerful! That was and. You know going through and talking about the archetypes and so forth. I really liked what he talked about about. It can't codify one. And he talked about the you know the king, Warrior Magician Lover and You know how he. Said Okay but. Again, you can't codify and so he pushed back loaded on that. What I've come to find over the past eight years that I've been. In. In earnest looking. Is that. With all the change that's happening that there's a burn. Inside men and they're trying to figure out what that is and I believe that that's the essence of their real truth. And that that is really trying to come up right now and express itself in its natural state, which is a state of love played out. In compassion. And that if we use those four archetypes, if we Say Okay. That's okay right now. King Warrior Magician Lover. That each one of them. Possess this element of compassion. That that's really the drawing point where they can point to that common theme. It's played out differently. It's played out differently for the lover than it is the warrior. Sometimes played out soft. It's other times it's it's it's hard. and. So that's what I've been exploring and I can't define that arche time. So this why? I'm in search of and that's. Why? I'm so excited. For us to be talking because I just got God. Yes, yeah! Yeah just got a high level. View of what you're doing, I'm real and that's why we wanted to dig into your cellular journey. Because as you made this decision and you said wait a minute there, something here for me to begin to explore and your podcast are going so deep, and so, what was it that that? What were some of the elements that that impelled you? Begin this next chapter of all your producing that you could have chosen. Thank you. Just had a minute. My young son just popped in. All right. The timing I know my partner. She's swooped him out of here so. Way But yeah, he's. He's about twenty one months now, so it's. Relations. Talk About A. Really, revisiting the inner child and the child and all that stuff, too, so that's another. Thread but. I think for me. The the the shift from studying and exploring the feminine archetypes coming from this I think really the sincere. Wish to be helpful to be helpful to this time and I think I come I. Don't know if I am. Johnny talks with this, but this idea that? If men who are have some degree of sensitivity. Are Able to look out at the world. Right and see what feels like you know ongoing mayhem from largely rod at the hands of men was kind of what would you like? that. There's a reaction to that. which is Whoa, you know I don't want to be that. You know I'm going to be a nice guy. I'm an item to be. You know I'm not GonNa do that and so, what happens in this? What happened to me? Is that I? Disassociate or or disconnected from my masculinity, or at least kind of aspirational masculinity that held any kind of noble qualities right because all seen as you're. Don't want that, so you know. That that created a split with myself and I think a lot of Benfield that right one hand. They're like okay I. Don't WanNa be that, but they don't really have pathways to kind of you know Yelich a noble compassionate your masculinity, and so you know I think when I started this journey I of the feminine, and then you know like I, said I went through Clarisa and Dancing the flames or Marion. Woodman others like that, and then I suddenly it was like Oh wait, there's iron. John and I came to that as an incredible story, actually connected to my grandfather in his records. You know after he died. It's an incredible story, but I've recognized I was like Oh. There's actually been an inquiry into this that had been called the myth. Oh Poetic Men's movement, right and I suspect the both of you may had been there and you know it was very live for you and I feel largely went underground at least until more recently last few years where I feel it's coming through a resurgence. I would call it maybe the second wave of the Mitha Poetic. And and this is the interview I did with me or I really felt. Like I felt an urgency to actually connect generations. Because, I felt like the newer generations were a little. Almost like to to disconnect from the lessons of the past, a little bit like Oh. We just we can reinvent the wheel again and given the. We learned a lot. and. You don't need to. Go through all the challenges that we did. Diversity and inclusion means diversity and inclusion at us. Yeah exactly so it is a way of saying. Okay. Look, don't. You'll stronger together. That's kind of what I was. Recognizing and so that's that's a piece about why recognize Oh wow like to draw forth the one these pillorying are towering pillars like mead and I'm looking to interview like melodrama, so may, and others know to really bring forth those that that time specifically the historical context because this is also why feels really important because often when you talk about things like archetypes, and almost like they're kind of universal free-floating. Always there you know understandings, the challenges you lose the historical. Historical context of what was going on at the time, and I actually interviewed the mankind project bill costs you know co-founder as well. And I asked him in a way to bind the the journey of mankind product and their own experiences to to history into cultural moments of which a lot of this out of the response from the women of course right who had started to do all this deep work and men were like Woo. Okay. We got to respond somehow. And that's really where this kind of gauntlet was thrown down to say over you guys too, and so i. felt like I needed to of update and bring forth the context for the current generation, but then also expand maybe the horizons of what was included right, and this is where I've now interviewed people like Biochem. WHO's a Nigerian poet and Dallas gold tooth is an indigenous standing rock activist, and bringing forth like I would call it more of an indigenous Lens, indigenous cosmologists to to just expand the context and to bring forth. Yeah, like how to other cultures hold these archetypes. Again, are they free floating, or are they actually very specific? You know to maybe a European context and not to say that they're wrong. It's just like okay. When we add in other lenses. The early you know enhanced them in enrich them instead of somehow jostle for supremacy, which again is as I think was never the idea so. In this this is. This time. What what have you learned about yourself? And your own? Because one of the things that Michael was talking about in that Pakistan's? We're talking about. Everything was inside. He didn't want to invite the media in. Because the minute you invite the media n, it's just like whenever whenever you like at electron when it's going through the double. Slit experiment suddenly it goes, it collapses. Right then changes it and you can't do that so now. It's the time that we're were having to take it out. And so, what would during these episodes that you have what what what has been working on your own? Your soul and your own of Lucian. What do you mean the learning about in Yeah Yeah? Thank you I mean like I said an initial A piece of how I came to was that I felt like I disassociated right from those Johnson myself and So I think this journey of being this, let's broadly call it. Men's work right from the last five or six years has been that reclaiming coming back to you. I feel like degree of integration. Right of like okay. Wow, so you know those parts are part of me this experience, masculinity, and and how? I experienced myself as a whole being really important to integrate. And coming to recognize that you know that journey is obviously very it long. You know it's not a sort of a I. Did it now check the box move on Yeah and you know the more I it. It's almost like the other horizon extends even further away because you realize okay anytime you on one part all of a sudden it opens up you know, and and there's laptops or there, so I would say certainly my edges now. Are Looking a lot about what is what is true embodiment for one you know what is what is what are the gift of? An, even in a I, say it that way specifically almost to represent what I feel a lot of experience and I. I have in the past which is a call, it like a deep distrust of emotions, actually right like they seem a bit too wild a bit. You know just Kinda, enter Kickin, and not not what you know. What's the point other than to simply? Lose control of you know where control and self mastery seemed to be the order of the day for men in this culture, and so coming to a place of trusting, their intelligence has also been for me. And I have been you know looking to step more into direct practice because again, even over intellectual housing of course is another trap. Know for myself in a lot of an experience of. Interesting I thought about it, and therefore I understand it rather than I've embodied in integrated it right, and maybe lastly to say shadow work you know, of course, which is a big piece you know I've done mankind project new or your training which you know, they do some shadow work there. I also have a few years in community in Portugal called Tamara of which they have a lot of sort of. A kind of psycho psycho drama work they do in community, which has been really instrumental for me to see how we can bring foreshadow and held in a wider community vessel, and actually have it enhanced trust in the community, instead of break it and you. I've I've spent many times in there as well to kind of uncover, and to be seen and to integrate and all these places, so I got a long way to go, and and I feel still very much. You know Newbie in this room. I got a question. You get it. The Divine Mash Flynn the divine feminine. Within us and we can had this conversation because when we can touch into that. What about the conversation with? The toxic masculine what about the FELLAS Outta there are? Can you connect with them? Kenny relate to them. How how does that work? Yeah thinks that you know I feel this question. I mean it almost comes from often. I'm not saying you're saying this. I experienced it often as a kind of how do we? How do we make them like us or something like that? And it's it's you know it's a sincere thing and I'm wondering I feel when when we see like I said look out, and you see all the. Chaos and violence and you're like you know. How do we stop this so? I feel like it comes from that place and. I guess I recognized how your is such a gift in meeting men where they're at you, know certainly, and and I find often we speak in this way and certain language can be you know above. Above accessibility for a lot of men, right, who right kind of like what are you talking about? and I think therefore it's really important to be able to embody those very qualities whereby I would, I would say this. You know something switch for me a little while ago when I recognized. Wasn't so much about changing men that I encountered as it was to. Be That Messenger. And I don't want to try to kind of Cliche. Be The change you wish to see. For example I began walking through life. Not kind of reflexively ushering men, and you know what I mean like a kind of own. You know he doesn't get it or. All the ways right when just we kind of set up a sort of internal hierarchy right of competition. Even if even if you know, you're pretty spiritually advanced, you know. I. Think it's still there and whether it's just right. Yeah, whether the weather's a construction worker, you know the guy behind the counter, the retail shop or something I just kind of my my orientation to just be to see know as if imagine this man was in my circle. Do you know what I mean like? How would I treat him? How would I talked to him? How would I? Just, stay in a kind of. What's the word like a commodified transactional relationship like he's just begging my groceries, or would I just shift a little bit and not not make him uncomfortable and say you know. Hey, what's alive for you in this moment? Let's just be able to just be able to see him as a brother and and just kind of hold that. Kind of energetic solidarity. I guess that's how it said. And that to me is more powerful than. Maybe. Throwing copy, John, Adam and saying you gotta read this because I think they'll come to it when it's their time, if that is their path, but that again how we embody it, and and generate that field of trust solidarity holding calling them Fourth I. Think is where it really we become bridges. You talking about holding this form one of the. Terms that we use is holding space for somebody. In Our circle when we come together, we'll have twenty or thirty guys every Monday night and That so much what we're what we're doing in part of it is teaching ourselves. Not to jump in there with the solution, not try and fix the guy. But create a space where he lincoln happens. And in a hold that for that fellow. So powerful I've experienced it over and over again. And we've had. We've had men more than one whose wife either died that day. or Had happened that week that came their first experience was to come into the. Circle and and there was a and there was, and we sat with him that with him as it happened. I mean that was i. know that that sounds like an extreme example there there are many other examples, but the internal so work. that. We're seen happening there and that we're seeing how it feels to me over my being the elder of these of you three. It feels like something has fundamentally shifted that there is an opportunity that there are opportunities for conversation. That had had not happened before. Which makes this all that? More, important one. What is your sense about the the time that that that we're in Yeah, what comes to is? This is something that's became clear to me. The more I talked to indigenous people, and how they hold specific cultural understandings, their particular culture, and I just want to highlight something which to me, it feels. Almost like. It's hard to see when the water you're in right that that you kind of have to step out of it to be able to. See it. Yeah, and so what I would say, the thing that is unsuitable by this culture and I speak maybe. Modern North America. Is that. You know we we are living in a time. When so many of the ancestral lineages right have been lost right a lot of the Europeans right. The came over particular and I'll say that I'm a second generation. Canadian as in my grandmother came from Ireland. my father was born here and you know meeting here and at the same time you know, I know so little about Ireland. I've gone back actually twice to experience it into C. Family that are there and it's been profound and I'll say that. We're living in in the kind of aftermath of that the wake of that which means. An I'll say it this way that you know there is no. kind of universal definitive cultural. Standing for North Americans. By this meaning we kind of have the absence of culture. That's a better way to sit right if we understand like a teacher. I've studied with many years Stephen Jenkinson. He says that. Culture real culture isn't achievement. No it's not. It's not a kind of you know Charles Eisenstein as well as person I've collaborated with many times, and he said so many times we get together and even I'll speak about it with men so many times we get together. We experience what what could be called shared consumption. Right like you know what you watch the game you know you have to be beers or whatever and any, and that could be nice. You know, of course, the kind of friendly ness, and and at the same time you know it's not really a pathway to go deep, and this is why, of course we're men's work. Come in, you have the tools and the space holding to allow that which is beautiful. And I guess what I'm saying that the challenge though is to come up with a kind of universal response to the problem of universalism. That quite make sense right, which is because when you tucked businessperson. Across the board that I've experienced I'll say well. How do you how do your men? You know do this? or what are their rituals and this and that? I've never heard one say. All people everywhere should do this. All men everywhere need to do this right. They always say well. This is how we do it. Right like it's a very particular culturally. Specific understanding and I'll say my understanding of business culture is that it is a primarily land based, or you could say land kind of generated right like it comes from a place and therefore bound particular place. Of Us, have a challenge of the men don't have those in sexual images right of coming up with a kind of cultural mandate, but so many of us don't have you know thousand years, or so in the same place anymore to have that generated so I guess I'm saying is we get another problem which we think a kind of universal response? Let's get all men to go through this experience. You know as the the Medicine Reno, but the challenge of courses that there is a diversity of kind of responses that is so needed. And so I guess that's what I'm saying. We're in this kind of unity in diversity is the. Way Forward rather than kind of we all need to do this thing which is, you could hear it almost like a mono theistic kind of hangover. Right like there's one way and let's all get them to join the one way, so I guess that's what I'm saying. The opportunity for me is recognizing. You know that like Dallas, said indigenous fellow in the interview. He said you know I. Don't I don't think that it's about getting digits man into these kinds of. Of, let's say more modern men's work circles because they gotta do their own work with their people. You know there's deep healing work, and we have to do specific healing work, which is specific our context, and also for me. Just you know with my skin color is to look at Whiteness and to look at a privilege, and to look at appropriation all these things that are necessary ingredients to coming up with a kind of deep culturally informed response to two men Solberg. You know As you were talking. Going back to this whole, we they. One of the things that I've experienced over the past couple of years now the past year and a half I guess. is working with an organization called Gender Equity and Reconciliation International. And it's. In essence creating a safe space. To nurture into allow deep-healing between women and men to recognize that were. Were all wounded by this patriarchal system. And our wounds of difference, and we're not there to compare but were there to honor and respect in acknowledged that this is the first time this person may have ever spoken these words. And into a mixed group. And! Made a happen healing to happen and in the same vein. When we'RE IN OUR CIRCLE WE'VE AMEND CIRCLE WE RECOGNIZE that. We're all wounded. We carry different wounds to be able to honor that. and. I'm. GonNa differentiate here between. Calling somebody out or Seeking get them to be authentic and nurturing. And it. Again creating that space. Because? I know for me. I didn't trust other men. Right so I to get over that and I started a men's circle the. Figure, that out man, still figuring it out. But it's the one space where I can go during the week where I can work on connecting my head and my heart. Together. And then being speak it. I don't have that in the speak it in an environment. There's there's no judgment. Beautiful. Appreciate, you said that distrusting as well because. I think you're right that the. That level of undercurrent, I think for a lot of men is is sort of omnipresent, and I didn't actually even recognize it, maybe like many of you until doing more of the work and be like Oh actually really don't trust men. Beyond a certain beyond a certain easy surface camaraderie. You Know Yeah I. Think the difference might be men who experience for example being combat with a with other soldiers are men who go through firefighters or Something like that. Where they experienced some kind of deeper challenge together opt for death. You know there can be the trust emerges but I. Think other men don't have that kind of experience, and and don't realize how close to the surface that distrust actually is in how deep does actually and I do think that is a threshold that men need to cross in order to be able to start doing this work in another episode. Maybe number six. The boy must die where we talked about this idea that you know that may basically command who are willing to do. This kind of work are all failed heroes. You know like heroes, the lone wolf hero as the one who you know, has it altogether. Who can do it all? They have to almost hit that. Wall and and crumble right before like Oh. Wow I. Actually can't do this on my own and now wait. Oh, there's other men around here. Who actually figured that out to? And you know that's the kind of. Weigh in. When When? What was your failed hero moment in? Thank you. bye-bye! Iron John I think he says this, and maybe the road of ashes right where? He says a lot of experience around maybe thirty five. and. I was pretty much right on cue. At thirty three, actually I got divorced. I was in a relationship for ten years. We're married for six. And and it really was that that kind of everything I. Thought it was me and my life and everything burned to the ground. and. you know there are a lot of circumstances around that happened and this and that, but essentially there was the moment when I had everything packed in my. Subaru hatchback. From from the home that I had lived in with my partner and. Picket fence and the dog and the garden, and the whole thing and everything I owned that was taking with me, fit in the vehicle and drove away and you know sort of next chapter began. And, so from that from those ashes really is where you know I was like. Wow, I can't I just? Can't you know everything I thought? I could achieve at and win. You know it was over, and from that is where I that wait a second. You have to do things differently. You know have to find others. And particularly men in order to help me see. What am I blind spots? You know what what don't I know about myself. Actually without the capacity of you know men who can see and done their work as well. That could mirror for me and hold me enough. And that's gotta be men with men. I get some. People say well clay. You need to open up your circle ten for men and women. Said No. No, no, no, there's word that men have got to do with with men and I've said this thousand times, but you know we get twenty or thirty guys in a circle on Monday night. And we've got over a thousand life years of experience right there. I think there's something we can learn from each other, and once we've done that and we learned how to speak. We can. Now, take the next step and begin to integrate he'll. With. Whether spouse or partner or women? Beautiful. It makes me think they just the last thing about that the you know. It's easy to see I think that there is an. Echo there. If we were living in village, still where it would be natural for a kind of village intelligence, go for at times. Together together and to do that work, and then the women together and. Likely a lot of the indigenous understanding had a third gender. kind of spirit, or whatever it was, and they probably had specific work that they would do, and so in that sense when gathered together, we are recreating ancestral, no echo that industrial memory of how it would have been before you know. Asian and fragmentation in conversation, and all the rest so I feel like that touches a place of the longing that a lot of carry as well. To have a degree of a kind of like Oh, this is what this is. How humans actually lived for ninety nine percent of our history. Is there something there Ian. And Clay About The idea that. Inside the of a nuclear family that is cut off from others as opposed to us being a tribals, BBC's where it wear Nitrile, but actually would rock knocked the edges off of. Some of this that that. The stuff. You wouldn't be able to get away with. And you would have to confront and deal with an more tribal if we were more interconnected, and his cousin were trying to Redo it digitally now. Yeah Yeah I mean I can find it on this. Is. Interesting the T. The word tribe came up with bill as well because he has A. New Sort of initiative called time for tribe, and it was really looking at how to build really like small-scale I would say like almost like a village pod. Right of of people that are really in with you. You know like you really built trust with mixed gender. could really hold each other and all the rest again like I think beautiful initiative and I. You know the word tribe to me also has a kind of challenging affiliation. Again we talk about progression or whatever. The legacy of colonization, or and I looked it up. Actually it's who initially a Latin word that the Romans us. Right to I think administrative particular yet, group of almost like A. Like a pod would be another way to to within a wider Roman. Large city state, and then later became used by anthropologist to denote kind of African primitivism primitivism right, so we tell their try tribal living as a kind of primitive pre civilized label, and then I think more currently use it. So, then more currently tend to use it as a kind of a like what I like to say kind of. Village e Way and this is also why I kind of I tend to use that word instead because I feel like it kind of just releases it from a primitivism or kind of unconscious primitivism heart dot. Yeah, yeah, yeah! Because I think what happens. Is You know because this is? This is the kind of a prejudice that modernity does when it looks at a cultures right and says. Oh, you know they're basically pre US right, which s anyway to think about it. WE WANNA be safe developing developing nation right? It's the same thing it's like. Oh, they're basically on their way to being like us because you know we're great and clearly where you know better, so they'd want to be us. whereas a lot of indigenous people of course are like no, we don't want to be you actually but the more that one is able to see the deep intelligence of for example like village village, living right uneven. How how you are with the place like hunting gathering all this kind of? Primitive Romanticism in a way, but there's a deep intelligence to. Village as a almost like A. Limitation on how many humans can be somewhere for how long. Right like an you hear stories to think of groups of I think maybe one fifty is the sort of village number right where you can kind of have a real relationship with approximately one fifty. You might have heard this study's done right, and maybe you remember the names or the stories, and after that you lose track right on many people and there's a there's a really interesting. Almost biological intelligence in that right when you recognize that again, too many people in one place, too long tends to degrade the place. Right and we see that in a lot of places you know. Fertile Crescent. You know is is largely desertified. Yeah, so many places. Where of course the diversity is very. Is mostly gone. You know because again. Humans have just didn't leave right whereas you see intelligence of nomadism, right to move around is because they recognize okay what we can only her so long for the season right and we gotta keep moving. Because when we come back, you know a year or whatever later it will be able to regenerate, and that was a that was a way of loving the place, so I'm saying this to say that the. There's something about the village again. Intelligence, which is beyond kind of let's boil sugar. Occasionally you know or or even community. He gets trotted out a lot. When people say I live in a great community, you know. Maybe it's the BURBS, and and again it's kind of like because so many of us have never had the lived experience of what it actually means you know, and and I would actually say having now I've lived in a collective project now for a number of years where we have anywhere from eight to ten intergenerational people living together with a lot of these practices that have incorporated. And, and what we find is that it's actually it asks more of you because like you say, you can't hide a lot of ways. And we particularly go after a lot of shadow stuff you know when we're in here with the work, do right, and so in some ways it's almost like an evolutionary fasttrack whereas the nuclearized fragmented families, it's like so many blind spots go unchecked. Right a lot of mayhem that kids have to bear. because. The adults are just they don't have others other adults to call them on. It. Be Like Woah. you have to see this. You know an no more and all the rest so I. Guess I see that the you know the kind of. I don't know I call it a diversion or like a deviation. Called the nuclear family is again a very recent phenomenon from the way that we've been living, and for so many feels almost like. Oh, it's always been this way you know vaguely. There's an idea that we have know village in the past, but it's it's such a standard such recent. Departure from the intelligence that we used to live, and so I just think it's really important to see it that way you know even as we can't leap back to village, but we can begin to. Reawaken the village imagination boy I. Tell You what comes up for me and this is kind of shallow, but. Down in the south. You know we say well the the neighborhood you know we. Everybody, would take care of each other's children and everybody play around, but as and people sit on the front porch and wave at each other walking by and so forth, and as soon as the air conditioner was invented. Everybody went inside. And we've been inside ever since. I can't say what's the last name of the person was next to me I don't know. Yeah! That's that phenomenon. It's just as simple as that. Love that reawakened village imagination. Because there's something there's something within us. It feels like that. Whatever is happening is more a process of subtraction than ambition. That it's there. It's that we we need to take away some of the things in order to allow it to naturally merge rather than something. This missing that we have to glue in Yeah Yeah, yeah, beautiful, way to sit and I really loved the link to the air conditioner example. Gave which is that? Technology's always a double edge. Right like it. And take away, and and the unforeseen consequence of something like air conditioning like you said is is somebody's catastrophic to village life for two to neighborhood life. Where you're right the inability to sit inside when it's hot Oh, there's more is on the street means Oh. Hey, neighbor conversations naturally happened and all the rest, and suddenly a convenience right of like. Oh, now I can be cooled during the hot time suddenly. Nobody's outside anywhere. And I feel like this is their relationship to comfort, often which most don't recognize. Know, you might have seen that movie from the eighties. Called dinner with Andre. Classic Little Two person to conversation exactly yeah, and there's a beautiful ribbon their. This specifics, but basically he he kinda makes case he's saying. Comfort is the thing that gets in the way. Of of the the ability to engage to to understand what's necessary, or what's important right, because the distractions or the the addiction to comfort, which you have an entire culture, which that's the the highest achievement right is comfort. And, so it's very difficult to be willing to release comfort unless you have to write, unless you can't afford the thing or less, you know all these other things will get in the way, but all of a sudden most people you know tend to recognize you see in the aftermath of big calamities. Weather events or floods or anything it's suddenly half. Know your neighbor because they're throwing sandbags down next to you or wildfires suddenly. It's like you're next to your neighbor. You know in your car fleeing and all of a sudden. Hey, what we never even met, and here we are, so it's like these calamities often create the conditions whereby suddenly we need each other again and so this is what I mean by in some ways, it's a. it's a hard thing not to wish for you know that that. The comfort gets less comfortable. Because again. It feels almost totally an antithesis to what we've been conditioned to want in the culture, which is comfortable all else and. The time as they are. Likely means that comfort can't go on as it's gone on without hired higher cost of course to the biosphere into those. are less, up, the, chain. And so this is a lot of what's happening with black lives matter. I think and others where you know, it's really like the feedback as finally getting through the system to say hey like we can't go on like this and we need each other. Do you. Do you seek the? Considering we're in July of twenty twenty one. We're recording this. Do you see cova did and the global pandemic has having an impact coming I? Mean just to to put this into context last night I read on the news that the Bahamas is barring. Travel from the United States Let that sink in their. Hamas. Is Barring us. United States citizens from coming and when they have a tourist when they have a tourist based economy so. Something's going on here. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's such a rich moment for a lot of reasons and I. Draw upon a conversation I, had with Martin Shaw in Apopka storyteller from the UK. and. He does a lot of right a passage work. You know wilderness, right of passage stuff and. Great example where he said specifically about Kobe, but he said you know. Many like let's say men can experience the same encounter with the wild. Let's say. And have very different. Experiences are a very different sort of things come from that right, and he gives another example to say being war as a as a rite of passage as an encounter with mayhem, and he says one can come back and turn to alcohol and drugs, and totally devolve and end up in suicide in another could turn that encounter into seeking an actual deeper healing path, and you'll find others, and so I guess that he's saying that the encounter alone doesn't guarantee an outcome right, which is favorable. And so this is kind of what I feel also with Covid as well. Which is you know? Many of us are experiencing a highly. encounter with a being that is. Invisible and yet very consequential, and so, how do we choose to relate to it and to? Go through that integration because of it, you know some see it as an enemy right, which is because it gets in the way of all of the things that they think they should be doing and the way they wanted to live their life and so radical at all costs. Others say wow, this is a wakeup call. You know. I realized that I was not happy. Anyway, you know maybe. This is a great opportunity to turn towards. Really what? What am I here to do and all the rest? So you know that becomes their integration. I think as a kind of larger possibility I. Think Yeah, we. We do have the opportunity for what I would call A. kind of a maybe global. wake up I could say where we have the possibility of really shifting course whereby you know six months ago, it would have been unheard of you know that. Most global air travel is grounded. You know like like Dat would've been a total impossibility. You're right in the not that long ago or all of the things that people do that, they say oh I can never give that up. You know all of a sudden here Mary are and and we're still you know if you're lucky enough of maybe you're still okay so I. Guess That's what I'm saying that the you know we. We really have a choice of how we respond to react to this and I think these times again are. Could be possibly generative in the long run, but only if we choose to make. My fear is that. You know one day we're GONNA. Wake up and realize that Kogas going away. and we're going to rush back to the way quote was, and we will not learned a lesson. And Not being being the optimist of the group I'm hoping that even if we did, but we just come back that we don't hit as high in the consumption meter. As are that the still this. Get Him within that gap. Within that gap is where all the magic happening because feels different, it feels to me that that because I'm trying to think like twenty years ago. Let's say that you wanted to start these conversations and you wanted to have. How hard would it have been for you both not just to find the people and get them, but get other people to listen, so there is a there is a a wave. Component to where where there's something amplifying the others that is going on right now, and and when when it hits me at this deep level. It's changing it. It's I'm feeling it shift. In I wanted to ask you about something where. Where are you at? You're looking out at the world of idea and edge walkers as your as as you're working. Where're you looking to have these conversations? Who Are you? Who are the people that you're exploring to have these conversations when your podcast Yeah! Thank you I mean. I'm lucky enough that largely most of the interviews I've done so far which are close to twenty now or all people I've crossed paths or have a direct relationship with so. Some some sense I've just drawing upon the wealth of. The circles that I've been privileged to be in as a filmmaker. Right where you know, I was able to go incredible places like I said Portugal's place to. Thin Horn and Scotland attended something a few years ago called the new story summit. You know again, which was like a nexus for all of these people doing derive a change work and so I really just kind of drawing upon that existent network to to invite certain conversations whichever effect people to have. And say the edges that I find most interesting now. like I said you know particularly interviews like Biochem La the poet over West Africa like his capacity to. Invite a different way of seeing. I think is so vital, and and you know he has a great Just sort of I. Don't call it a tagline, but it's. It's coming out a lot in his. which he says the Times are urgent. Let us slowdown. Right and that that paradox right which when when the fix it mind wants to get in there quick and be like okay, what do we do? What do we do? That! There's something else that's needed a. Courtship of of slowness, you know that that allows for possibility to emerge, but if he moved too quickly, all of a sudden, you know we lost it because you just reenact more of the same. Because how could you not right and so yeah? I'm really intrigued by those that have that capacity to bring a different kind of wondering. Like I said digits. which I think are so vital to diversify the understanding the ways of seeing right and I'll say in general in particular now we speak of the context of North America Aka Turtle Island to lot of dishes for. That you know we. We have a very particular context which I feel is different are a lot of the rest of the world. In that you know we. We are still living in what could be called first contact. Right like the idea that somehow it's over, it's done. That's a call night understanding. That the pattern has gone. And it's over and get over it and all the rest. And I think it's very possible that you know, and and by the grace of the indigenous folk that are now in a deep resurgence. which has been confirmed to me through a number of them that there's a possibility here. The rebuilding right relationship which I think is the key actually to any livable future. No question. The fact that We said Oh. Yeah. Thank you I mean. I feel like because again unless we're willing to. That is the shadow of this country or the this nation. You know Canada's well. This is the shadow that it was built upon genocide on the business people and the willingness to really go there right is part of that slowness I think right, because if we if we just approach indigenous wisdom, even now's becoming more vogue. Then we come with a kind of hungry ghost pillage. Mind right like save us and interviewed a Turkey fellow. View. A film called prayer for the Earth based on his work, and he said it really well. He's like you know that's a bit much to think that you know. Suddenly we were the ones that were in the way of progress. And now we you know suddenly like Oh, progress isn't what it was meant to be now now people save us right. That's like you know the height of Chrissy and it's possible to court that up. True is done through slowing down and actually being willing to you know see what's been done to build that. Re right relationship again because again. There is no foundation without that I feel like anything else is still built on very. Shaky idealize romanticized ground right of this idea. The heroic pioneers in at all this Kinda like we'll just recreate more of the same, and the biosphere can't take it anymore. You know so. That is such the place to begin again. The and I want to ask you something just in general. What was the experience of becoming a father and having a boy? That experience and what what that's done to your soul, and what what you're thinking about What scoring to your consciousness. Thanks. You know it's interesting I recognize. Some men will say I always wanted to be a father. They're kind of. They just knew it from a young age, and I was I was wondering about it. You know that I. Part of me felt like you may be not me not for me, like maybe not mind to do. Until I met the woman that would become the mother, and it was you know they sometimes. They say that it's sort of completed the circuit. Of Okay. This is possible and yeah, and so that that came on me a little bit by surprise, and that being said you know when he was born. Now as I say, he's bopping around. Boisterous every day and and it's been prefers dress and. Unintended right. And it's been profound to I. Guess Tune back into again. I kind of deep sense of wonder. Often that gift of children. And again to not to see kind of. Unsullied you know blank slate has a bit of this. You know kind of projection on children, as if they're somehow pure, and where the you know sin centers, and maybe you know we can, they'll. They'll save us again in this kind of unconsciously, but that's not that it's more like. You know the opportunity to really participate. I'd say in in just a longer arc right and there's some way that. Somehow by I. See my parents differently through this process. I see my father differently you know, and and now I'm seeing okay. Wow, wow, he must I was like this with this. And? I never heard about it. You know when I was older, and suddenly you know more compassion is the result of that, and like I say what world it will. He grew up in right I could kind of invokes a longer time line whereas I feel, does that maybe can land in a Lotta cynicism about the day right the kind of collapse, kind of the idea of conscience into being cynical about it, and and what's the point and all this stuff and I'm not saying hold to. Again a kind of wild optimism that is sort of ungrounded. You know in a sense because I guess I. Haven't saying I've been inspired by those that almost like proceed more bit more humility of. Like you know, I don't know if we'll save anything right and by that even you know again. What does it mean to save the world or save ourselves? But I think life will make it through in some way right, and so in some sense. I wonder you know. Could we through the way that he's raised? What skills would could I offer him? Could he be around? That might be useful in the future, and so that's the way I've tried to construct his life, and I'll say I was never in a circle even until he's probably like twenty, six, twenty seven. Right It just wasn't part of my culture. My family, you know. And I'll say with some degree of pride that my son you know. He's probably been in like two hundred. He's. He's not even two and. And he's been. Like really deep, you know ceremony and ritual and village ways in some of the troubles we've done and in the community here and you know. I gotTA. Thank. You does not consciously taking it in by highly suspect, he's unconsciously absorbing the transmission of like Whoa. This is how humans are together. It could be together and I gotta thank you know again. You know a decade two decades. What will that translate to you know in in terms of his ability to engage the time, and what's really needed, so that's what I'm saying it really. It created this longer arc of just seeing impact in consequence you know in my life and life previous. Fathers and now with him in the time to come. Just to watch him grow up, grow fast and I just I've just. Come conscious of that watching a little neighbor boy grow up. And He's about three now. And Klay in your journey and your journey as you've seen you had your your heart bypass in that after a long career in in the in the computer industry, and all that and read have that big change. That shift for you was that? Was that your? Death of the hero moment? Oh Gosh Ya and I only wish it happened when I was thirty five. You, know for me, it was. Fifty three and and that's a whole story in itself that I had a mystical experience that That, turned out to be a a bypass operation afterwards and. Shortly after that, the market crashed. Lost Work and was sitting on the sidelines for two years. and. That was for me my dark night of the soul. And that's where I began learning about people like. Joseph Campbell. And John, Bradshaw. And and an you know Michael me a reply. So that started. To, come to the surface. It's lovely to see eon to know to know what you're doing on the planet and Ino-. You Klay End to know what you're doing. A know what I'm doing on the planet because this is where the I. I feel that these conversations are had that that opportunity to be able to spend. We don't know who's going to be that. One listener that last listener the one where you know where you have that sugar where you have that that that avalanche and that one little last low is the one that that the breaks down or at least make some shifts that move along the way, but without these conversations without us being willing to have these conversations I would feel like I was not doing my part to be an on this process, and I want and. I agree. I think it really invites again a kind of non linear emergent process. Is about understand it? Yeah, where you know this idea that. You know the only way to change something by stronger application of force. Right which is make GonNa make somebody that and and that's a very I would call it on the you know if there is a pyramid that would be the Lowest Pyramid of the chief men I think of the using force to change something because I feel there's another whole other intelligence from relationship from I. Like to call these things like pollinating Noah's fear. Now the the the global intelligence of the planet, especially with this ability to have these conversations kind of you know, release them to the wilds and. And Trust that whoever you know needs to listen does right and and again relinquish relinquish. Of. Any particular strategy you know other than. Trusting that life wanted this to happen and invited. You know clearly three of us, said yes, and here we are and. Who knows down the line? That's where the and I. I feel very. I'm so glad you brought that up because there does appear to me to be. At, you know. Young, or however you want to say this. The oversight or Emerson, or whether it's Dover sold the global. The group got the consciousness of. Humanity this is the sense that we are contributing to lightning. Get to to expanding it to do. It appears to be that that that that's a real that this. The daichi of field theory will be doing research into fuel theory that all that this is something real. It's not just a the airy fairy kind of seventies. Sixties kind of thought that there's something there that we're going back to study again. Are You, are you? Do you get that sense that? Yeah Yeah I actually really liked this understanding or the image of a spiral. The sixties! From the conversations I've had shirk, and those that were there, and and you know some that conceive of it as a kind of. Lofty ambition and ultimately we failed because you know became the seventies, eighties nineties hike. Consumption continued to run rampant. And the way I see it, too. Is that you know there's these times that are especially limit especially fertile and that in the spiral understanding? That was a deep time of course of a lot of massive brings new and emergence, and then it can you need time to really integrate into you know kind of go under again and the changes that were made You know we see all around us I think whether it's computers and. psychedelics all this stuff, and now I feel like the spirals comeback around which is why, as I said earlier that the minute so poetic movement feels like a second wave, but it's building upon what was done in the past, but now kind of you know the next generation is actually kinda bullied by it, and and absolutely yeah, and so this is the opportunity. Opportunity, with and one of the things in spiral dynamics Amex, which are which are referring to I. Thank as a is, that is that it's so important the because once we move to that next level. The the tendency is to deny that we were ever. They're like you deny everything before that, but the what has to happen is we have to completely? Understand. It's Wilbur under the others that it has to be integrated. We have to accept all our previous states and stages in order to be able to stay at that particular space on the Ro. Island that ash reminder to that. Because I do see this as part of the challenge with polarization, right that the almost like the more entrenchment in one's position and I. Canadian looking south and I. Do feel there. is a deeper kind of entrenchment. It feels like left right divide. And in some ways, it's almost like the each side is like looking at the other and saying I would never think that way. They're they're completely wrong. As opposed to right the invitation being wow, I would totally think that way actually lives their life, and you know had their experiences, and so it's a very different. I think invitation to invite one into saying. I fully accept. You know that that's how you feel. And that's how you understand the world. And where can we make a bridge right as opposed to? Agree with me or your canceled. You know like it's very miserly. Understanding of I think about how to move forward together. I. What a lovely place to end for me, Klay. Do you have anything else that you that you would like to share with this great delightful the one thing I would like to. Say is an just thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and I hope and I think I know that we're going to have more. Likewise I would love to be able to continue to be able to be part of a part of this conversation because everything that. What we're saying and what we're getting. A chance to do is to be part of the process, and this is an process process, not product right. So this is how it happens is messy and as weird and. As eighteen month old running in and see employs as just you know. It's just all part of it, but anyway thank you, thank you. Thank you Ian. Rich time. Sees next time?

Times Ian Mackenzie Michael Need US Clay Boykin Klay Canada Clarisa Portugal partner apple Dallas John producer Tony Tony Levin Dennis Start Pinkel Vancouver Mackenzie Award
SUPER BOWL LIV: Bob Sturm

Blogging the Boys

18:26 min | 1 year ago

SUPER BOWL LIV: Bob Sturm

"I'm Songwriter Charlie. Harding and I'm use ecology made Sloan or the host of switched on Papa podcasts about the making and meaning of popular music every week Charlie and I breakdown down the most interesting hits trends artists to understand what they're doing what they're saying and why the songs are so infectious. We've recently broken down. Billy eyelashes music with her brother and collaborator phileas dissecting chance the rapper with super producer Oak felder and covered everything from Dolly. Parton to Travis. Scott if you love music you're going to discover something ear opening in switched on pop so join US search for switched on pop in your favorite podcast APP and listen to an episode about your favorite favorite artist and subscribe for free on Apple podcasts. spotify or wherever you're listening to get new music explainers every week and after listening you might want to check out. Our new book switched on Pop. How Popular Music Works and why it matters at your favorite bookseller thanks you're listening to SP nation at the super bowl? Finally joined on radio by somebody who knows what they're talking about the one and only from the ticket from the athletic from inside Your Heart Bob Sturm. Hey what's up. Sturm exterminator. I guess yeah you know I mean great to get over here finally. I'm sorry I had to find your table. I know it's been a busy day. coolest person that you've talked to. That's a great question. Probably our our buddy JOKELA latte today. We don't we don't yeah. We had bobby carpenter on though. That was fun time. Yeah he's really good. It's kind of weird. I mean you talk about the lines. I'm in stock. Twenty eleven line. Oh Yeah Yeah we talked about going to Kabo and Tony Levin and best man you know what I really appreciated it visiting with him because it changes my perception of all the all the tough times that he was associated with. He's he's a good dude. You know yeah. When he talked Zeke Nikolai thing? Doing I immediately. I talked to Miles Austin and To remember his kickoff return and so is asking about remember he was kind of laughing hyphen great and he talked about how his dad was like in the end zone and he had a camera on him. I never knew that and it was really cool in a cat suit. We're back down memory lane which is how we've got right now but So right before you got here. I don't know if you saw this yet. You weren't athletic. Sure yes I am. Mishota tweeted that Jason witten hopes to continue playing. I don't know were whitten said this but wouldn't quotas but I realize I'm a free agent two in March anytime new staff comes together. Played a long time so I realized that may mean somewhere else to thoughts. Because you've had some thoughts on Jason. Yeah Yeah I mean. It's it's a weird deal because You certainly aren't GonNa tell player when he can't play anymore I mean it's it's up to him to figure that out right and I I I don't feel as strongly as some do about him being a massive progress progress stopper because I while I like Darwin I think he is limited and and and being able to do all the things that are at least the old offense needed. So it's it's a it's a weird weird fit where you wonder if Mike McCarthy cares too much about what Jason Win means the organization he probably wants to be respectful about it but also doesn't want to be told who to have on his roster so you have a million different things going on. You'd wonder if the Jones family is asking. Hey Do we have a job for this guy. I I don't know I mean it's a it's a weird deal. I don't think for a second. He'll go play elsewhere. But you didn't buy that but I also don't I mean but I also understand. He's smart to say it to sort of get some leverage I don't necessarily believe Tom Brady. Wants to play anywhere or will play anywhere else. Oh I'm generally of the thought that if you play fifteen years in one one place you want to keep playing there but I also realize You know there's a lot of things that have to happen for that and and in the end. Does it make sense for the cowboys to not try to significantly upgrade that particular spot. How much do you think his? I hate to talk in these terms but his legacy as been and altered because I mean you know when he retired he was the guy that team led that man they couldn't they couldn't get it done. It's a shame I mean I kind of like Tony is now. Yeah and so he comes back and not only is not elite but now by many is viewed as this this progress stopper. You made us worse right. I find that fascinating I can't I can't think of anybody else that has really expensive. Yeah and I think it's unfair to a certain extent because I think he. Jason Wins Bean compared to Jason Witten. That's good point. And if you compare Jason Win to say what is an average. NFL starting tight end. What kind of numbers do they put up? Whitten was fine in two thousand nineteen. So we're comparing him to him and And and in doing so we are talking ourselves into the fact that He isn't what it used to be. No doubt he's not. Everybody knows that but we also know when he was an Monday night. Football the cowboys had almost nothing at tight end at all. Nothing I mean Dalton Schultz. God bless them. Blake Darwin You Know Rico gathered and all the things. They've tried King Rico Gas Z. Z.. Collection of all of them together was just really really. Didn't move the needle at all. So when comes back you know certainly moves the chains of fair amount Wasn't anywhere close to what he was but if his name was Jim Smith and you'd never seen before. And they picked him up for a couple of million You know in March march try to improve their tight end position. We'd probably view it all differently but he represents Garrett he represents two thousand five or two thousand seven all these years ears and so we all are carrying around a lot of cowboys baggage mentally. Yeah and I think witten probably activates a lot of those feelings. I do think I don't think he wants to go the giants but I think if he did he does sort of already represent care but that would be viewed as this sort of choice chose Garrett and Garett. Is this guy that we've already purged urged again. He's there's an argument. Tony wants made it. He's the greatest cowboy of all time. I think that that would affect people. I think it would knock him him down in their books. Whether it's below Dez when that report came out there was all sorts of tweets beats. You be like let them go and win. It's strange that's happening so a little while I went to the NFL mediaeval ability and Michael. Irvin was asked about this and that whatever but he talked about how last juice and all I heard about were our contracts. I don't want any of that. I want to hear about them winning other cliches. I think this feels like this is the off season that people turn people are kind. Kinda sick I mean. Do you get that feeling. Yeah what's really fascinated. Me Is the flip side of how does is viewed right now totally the desert viewpoint if you if you pop on on Social Media is oh my gosh could Dez possibly come back and save us. And I'm like could he played tight end. Are you guys high. I mean what the heck is you know no disrespect. We had some good times but does but it was over three seasons ago and this idea that even though he's kind of been unemployed by the NFL that's seen as a good thing that he's so loyal to the cowboys that he's he's going to sit out actual NFL years in the soul name of Just that getting that chance to come back to the cowboys. And by the way he of course stokes those flames but the but the dichotomy of Witton right now versus desert now is fascinating Kinda shows us. That fans will only be happy if the cowboys he's ever win again because either way you play at the whitten road. The fans are all cynical. The desert road most fans are cynical but some actually have talked themselves into. He's he's now the answer to the questions. which is they're both kind of crazy to me if you think about it right? And it is the ultimate like beauties of the beholder sort of thing because the witten thing is stop. Stop with this. It's enough it's been it rained. He hasn't played a brain. So what what. What could have pasta? And it's like every and does kind of represents I think this twitter boom of the. Yes and he's sort of the cowboys twit. If it was a person had desk posters like all in there and there forever stuck in the twenty fourteen season Um the belief that that was the golden year that if we had a time machine we would go back. I mean in reality. It was at very nice here but they are still a three seat. When there's so many things about the the cowboy disillusion? Yes the mental illness that we all fight as you know as a group to I don't think like will ever fully be struck down until they get back to a game like this and maybe even then I don't know if it will fully change but The two thousand fourteen season is is like for an entire generation of cowboy fans the glory year. Then of course that ends with the deaths catch situation and but but then the fan base is convinced for instance. The desk catch happens. The final four minutes of that game would have gone their way to Seattle on one. You've heard it a million times so it is what it is. Yes I do think that that the two thousand fourteen calves are like the varsity jacket that couch twitter is like twenty five years old. Still wearing to like. It's forever the favorite albums album favorite movie. You had a tweet like a month ago. I think if you think those were the glory years we have we have fallen. So far right I just think the expectation is do you think that's part of. That's just twitter that social media. That's the glitz of it. I mean what do you think is the combination. Well I mean I mean I think the cowboys are the three twenty five game every single we. Somehow I mean if you just talk about that if you talk about the insanity of cowboys football on a worldwide level given how little return the cowboys have actually given to get it at spot other than just pure nostalgia and and and you know I mean and this is what it is. I mean. I've been covering this team. For twenty two seasons and the most memorable all moments are what divisional round losses to the giants into the packers and Aaron Rodgers is the most important figure. I mean it's it's it's really really really shows that I guess like Notre Dame for a big stretch of time that You know the brand is is is what's carrying this thing so You know Mike McCarthy's a great spot. I mean you don't WanNa follow the legend. You don't want to be the coach after Jimmy or after landry necessarily because of the pressure. He's in the other direction. He's twenty five years into this ten years of Garrett here comes to Mike McCarthy and he has a chance to turn this whole thing around with a fresh start that might be an argument against somebody. Like witten or Sean Lee coming back get that fresh start break those ties that bind and build it yourself build a new thing and maybe he just maybe Good Times can be right around the corner because we feel good about the talent. We feel good about a lot of things but this this mental block that everyone everyone seems to have. Maybe Mike McCarthy can kind of be the guy that says. I wasn't here for any of that and I don't care about any of that and now we care about right now and moving forward forward building something special. What they're going to try to do easier said than done? That's a really great optimistic spin and I. I'll fully embrace that over the coming weeks for a moment I wanna I wanna live in the chaos and it's still barely about to hit February your draft coverage to really ramp on athletic and so really excited excited about that but what. We currently sit pinch for me. The most realistic chaotic situation. You know maybe maybe it involves the bring us back. I mean or whatever. But what's what's the worst way that the McCarthy quote from the press says yeah actually. I didn't watch him all were. That's that's re tweeted on September twenty eighth or whatever ever because things are so bad well I think it starts with making sure you can get all your ducks in a row with all these contracts. They have an insane number of free agents. They have an insane number amount of business they have to do and they've got to get it right and they've probably got to make some tough decisions. I mean the idea that we all have that touch bring this guy back and bring this guy back and bring this guy back back. That's probably not the answer even though it it's the most comfortable one and I don't think you get crazy at the quarterback position. Although you know I'd be interested Mike McCarthy and he doesn't take this job if he didn't love the quarterback so I don't think there's all sorts term. He didn't call back right away. Yeah Yeah not worried about that at all but what I I am concerned about is is how they maneuver around the other spots because you start looking at this roster from a business perspective from a contract perspective. I'd love to. Yeah no it Mike. McCarthy thinks of the Zeke deal for instance Certainly the cooper situation the Byron Jones situation. You just start going down the list of all of the contracts. They're they're already parties underneath the ones they gotta do Then you start saying okay. Who Plays defensive tackle on this team who you know? If you live Byron go D- automatically have to take a corner at the topped to just run and run and still so you know they have so much business to do and they gotta get right so you're probably right insane. I mean just bet on something not falling into place is probably the safest position. I am wired to to be optimistic. Sticking to fall for the hype every year in terms of Maybe they can figure it out so I'll at least see how this develops but clearly everything is so vital this off-season with a new approach in the draft room. And maybe a new approach in the front office in general. Because we assume Mike McCarthy has a much bigger hammer than any coaches head your sins parcels else. There's a new kind of credit card created by Apple. It's called apple cards and it lives in your wallet APP and in Your Wallet you can buy things things with apple pay or a laser etch titanium card. It sets a whole new level for privacy and security and it gives you daily cash back with every purchase. Oh Oh and you can apply in minutes. Just opened the wallet APP on your iphone and tapped the plus button to get started to learn more checkout apple dot com slash get applecart available for qualifying applicants in the United States issued by Goldman Sachs Bank. USA Salt Lake City branch. On the thing I feel the National Narrative Jerry loves the metal etc like that feels like it was the most recent thing that fit in that box. Yeah and and I never thought for a second they would let z cold out right but I didn't think that because the logic I thought that because why would you. Why would you say this is what the cowboys always do? You know the cowboys always get their guys signed and they is have a big splash and you could argue the cowboys actually like the pub that goes with with throwing around giant contracts. They're not scared of it at all. They don't they don't have sticker shock they actually realized well of course we do. We have a yacht. That's two hundred and fifty million dollars. There's of course we have a quarter of running back. That's ninety no problem so You know I I just wonder I have made the case on several several seasons that this should be the end of Garrett starting in two thousand twelve so I have been so over Jason Garrett since the three game in Washington at the end of twenty twelve not that I not that I was convinced I was right because in twenty fourteen. It made me think man. Did I get that wrong. Twenty twelve and you go back and forth but when you say kick it down the the kick the can down the road another year things like this happen and so after twenty eighteen. I'm it'd be a weird time fire Garrett but it wa- but after the Tennessee game it wouldn't have been a weird time even after the buffalo game this year. There were different times. They said. Now we're going to hang onto Garrett and during those times as you make other decisions that that put cement on things for five years Zeke deal so so ever really get to fully right right so get McCarthy doesn't have a blank sleet he has all of this stuff to work through and that's what further complicates their off-season which I think is extremely complicated task. It will be fine. Maybe Boise state players are off the board and all sorts of different things last one for us term. What part of what we know about McCarthy so far has either surprise are intrigued. Whichever Restroom WanNa go you the most whether it be retaining callan leading call plays or hiring Rob Davis whatever the case may be no? I would say Kellen is probably the exception to what I'm about to say. Which is I'm very impressed? And yes surprise that. They've made such a clean break from almost the entire coaching staff staff. You know I I. I'm not somebody who wants to see coaches have to move and get new jobs and be put out a place but I do think you know it's pretty interesting. Gene that he's brought in pretty CL- pretty full staff of guys that weren't here and don't know all of the things we've just talked about you. You know they don't care and they don't Know Valley ranch they all they know is what was it like to play against the cowboys right and they know okay how simple their defense was for years in how seriously they sharpen. Yeah right right yeah. So they're they're saying you know here's what we perceive what the other guys perceive doesn't matter to us anymore and now let's Let's start a new as much as we can. And so that's been the surprise. I expected Jason Win to be tight ends coach. Charlie with you I expected. Maybe Sean Li it'll be linebackers coach and all these things and we don't know how that's GonNa play out. But I do like the idea that the early indications are Mike. McCarthy has a lot of authority and that should be considered to be a good thing just because that means the other guys who have had the authority no longer hold it. Yeah it feels like Like when you're sick like you have a cold and you go to sleep and you're like this is that I'm GonNa Sweat it out right. I'M GONNA wake up and it's going to feel disgust and I have to wash my sheets in it but we're about to begin the healing process. There you go. I mean we'll see or maybe in four years we can do this again right then. We'll talk about the new coach Bob Star rating of course of course the Atlantic. Thanks for stopping happen by. Enjoy the rest of the time Miami. My pleasure great beer.

cowboys Mike McCarthy Jason Witten Jason Garrett Jason Win Tony Levin NFL Charlie Apple US Whitten Byron Jones Bob Sturm Zeke Nikolai Dez twitter JOKELA bobby carpenter
#741 King Crimson, R.I.P. Andy Gill of Gang of Four

Sound Opinions

55:41 min | 1 year ago

#741 King Crimson, R.I.P. Andy Gill of Gang of Four

"You're listening sound opinions. I am Jim Davis. My partner is Gregg Dot and this week we are test. Ah We gave ourselves lovingly Greg with creating primer to understanding King Crimson Thirteen studio albums fifteen live albums and countless personnel changes. Where do you begin half a century of history exactly? Let's start by discussing why we wanted to talk about this iconic band now last year. Two Thousand Nineteen was the fiftieth anniversary of the debut album by King Crimson. The group actually formed in London in nineteen eighteen sixty eight the first of its thirteen legendary studio albums came out. sixty-nine this is one of the most important bands in rock history. I think think are having having been the cornerstone group of the whole progressive rock genre. Blurring that transition from the psychedelic period of the Beatles. Rubber Rubber Soul Revolver Sergeant Pepper's into this new sound but knew no boundaries classical music avant-garde structural structural stockhausen stuff. You name it. And the kitchen sink right. Laid with incredible virtuosity no doubt and many many different lineups and incarnations of king mm Crimson with one constantly one Robert trip that guitarist and I would say the Philosophical Ho. Yes leader of the group in in that no to Al.. Should ever sound alike h incarnation of crumbs. And would be its own thing. Would not sound like any previous incarnation. Nor would it. Sound like any future incarnation of King Crimson. So for some fans it can be a bewildering group to love because no two versions of King Crimson and there have been many more than a half dozen sound alike and yet that to me is the most amazing thing about this group that it is maintained the standard for inventiveness business throughout every one of his incarnation. Some you love less than others. But they're all incredibly intriguing and it's with that thought that we decided to offer listeners listeners. Three ways in where going to divide the long fifty year career of Crimson into three eras and focus on three Albums that we think are all extremely rewarding. The rest in you can sample at your your your own. Lots of dig into and I gotta say. Hey Greg you and I know our pop music history but with Crimson such is the devotion of the fans that if we get a minor footnote wrong. Yeah I think that's a testament to how deeply people love them We have to put ourselves in London in nineteen sixty eight to sort of get where this group who was coming from after the explosion in the summer of love of the kind of psychedelic Baroque. Pop epitomized by Sergeant Pepper's lonely hearts club band and younger tars named Robert Rip is in a group of Giles. Giles and Frisk one of those two. Giles is fantastic. Drummer named Michael Giles. House bear making sort of PSYCHEDELIC. Pop Band like everybody in London was making in sixty seven sixty eight. We had a lot of bands that would give birth later to groups like genesis and yes and Emerson Lake and Palmer but Giles Johnson. Frith is lost to the sands of history because they didn't accomplish anything seasonings rustic county care then With Michael Giles. The Drummer Robert Frith links up with a talented keyboardist and songwriter named Ian MacDonald McDonald's that point his exceedingly enamored of this new instrument. That back then cost what a car would cause M. G. or you buy a mellow theron in in this big ungainly rather ugly white box is the sound of an orchestra triggered by tapes literal tapes running in this keyboard aboard. That will give you the other had been popularized by the Moody Blues. But I think when we look at the history of the Melatonin as predecessor of analog synthesizers the ban that really Besides the Moody Blues put it on the map was King Crimson in in King Crimson. Debut album in the court of the Crimson King is considered one of those landmark debuts of all time because it's one of those sort of perfect records or so rock history would have us believe from the cover art which is a horrifying sort of a PSYCHEDELIC cise English version of munches the scream facing rate distress. And what is this crimson king with this mysterious face. Crimson King of medieval legends is the king who reigns over great bloodshed The Crimson we are in the height of the Vietnam War. It is a violent time. In Southeast Asia at the United States King Crimson makes this debut abuse that is in part beautiful orchestral Ikea Delic folk pop but in part some new sound. We'd never heard right. Before the signature of that new part being the lead Song Twenty First Century schizoid man which not only is ripped guitar incredibly powerful distorted it I said that Hendrix Jimi Hendrix saw King Crimson performing at a club in London before their debut their first really big show was in front of of half a million people with the rolling stones at high but Hendrikse Club Gig and he got up and he said this future music. There's no point of any other band doing anything which is pretty high praise so that guitar of Twenty First Century schizoid man but the vocals everything in this song is saturated distorted over loaded. You talk about an opening track. That says we are here and you have not heard anything like this before. It's hard to think of others interesting. Footnote Kanye West samples it years later. You know it still sounds ahead of its time. I the talk about the Vietnam War context when people talk about Progressive Rock they think about fairy tales and fanciful world loading in space in here. They're singing about innocence. Raped with napalm fire and politicians funeral higher in the middle of the war that was consuming the the world at that point in history. We were prepping happened the show for a couple of months you know. A It was the fiftieth anniversary of in the court of the Crimson King last year. And it's fantastic. How I remember buying it for like four dollars at corvettes corvettes departments jersey Just because the cover and I'd heard this this. This name mentioned with reverence. I spent a lot of time with it. This is not a perfect album. Bob Frith was never the primary songwriter in King Crimson. He certainly didn't sing. He had Greg Lake AAC Who would go on to great fame as one of Emerson Lake in palm exceedingly talented vocalists in that wonderful rich baritone? Yeah he's right you you know when he has McDonald doing a lot of the songwriting of the orchestration. With Mellow Tron. There was a character named Pete Sinfield. who was the outside Lyricist writing these tales and court of the Crimson King is split between something like Twenty First Century schizoid man which is very much based in what is happening in in the moment after the summer of love is eclipsed by the summer of hate in in nineteen sixty eight we have riots across the USA and then the war in Vietnam and then. There's something like I talked to the wind and moon child which are like you take your typical. I have smoked dope and lying on one of those English hillsides right. I'm imagining myself as a Hobbit Abbott. Exactly What a range? You Go from Epitaph to twenty century schizoid man that is a huge range range of emotional and psychic territory for this band to be covering well and and you know they are really ignoring all genres is there is classical music as I said there is folk there is Jazz McDonald. Had done time as a musician in the army so there are even marching music influences. There's improvisation there's that classic British love of a Victorian era you know a little of that kinks village Green Preservation Society diety. And somehow it all comes together uh-huh and then they never duplicate it never repeated. The band has fallen apart by the time. The album comes out. McDonald's and that incredible drummer Michael Giles. I'll leave to do more cheerful more upbeat cooler music man right taskmaster and Frith says well. I can disband King Crimson and you can stay or You know. I'll lead us in a new direction. This has been his modus operandi so although he is for fifty fifty years history the driving force of King Crimson the only consistent member he has often completely broke up the band a reshuffled it without even telling the people who'd been with him sometimes for years and you know I have to point out the Sensibly the title track. It's the album is in the court of the Crimson King. The court of the Crimson King is at massive majestic the only way I can describe at nine twenty six and I remember hearing it again in two thousand six movie children of men and it's used so well in that movie and it just so powerful and just staggering The of taken away to me shows ah that is kind of the promise and potential progressive music and a lot of ways. You're thinking about these very classical kind of structures incorporate in in a rock context June by US up the nation song for the God of the grim eh in. And you know even if it doesn't make any sense because I have no idea who the fire which is you that's one part through all these ZOG's turn to the fire which and then there's the dance of the puppets enhances the policies that kind of disjointed. I don't know what I don't know what's happening the lyrics. Rex never made a lot of sense. I don't think Pete Sinfield loss was significant to the ban nor Ian McDonald. Who would be said as the two? Most disjuncture give careers. Three years in history he goes from King Crimson the first Grade Progressive Rock band to yours Born a foreigner Cole. How does that happen? I also have it. Just give a shout out to you. Know in the world of Drum Geek modern drummer subscribers. Like me right Michael. Giles is a giant. I I think the reassessment of his playing on this started years ago when in every interview he gave Neil period of rush would say Michael Giles. Why I picked up the drums snicks drummers drum never did anything in the rock world again that got anything near this level of recognition but his drumming is just and I think every progressive rock drummer who follows tries to do what? He's doing that sort of jazz. Odd Time signature. Incredible sophisticated playing with rock. Drive right right exactly the mill stones the Boom Sheild and undeniable classic by King Crimson. Now after a short break. We're going to look more at the discography of King Crimson including their Proto Proto metal turn a nineteen seventy four's read that's in a minute unsound opinions from WBZ Chicago and PR Welcome back sound opinions. I'm Jim regattas. My partner is Gregg hot and today we are talking about the usually influential progressive rock band. King Rimsson before the break. We were talking about their groundbreaking first album nineteen sixty nine in the court of the Crimson. Hang with the Classic Twenty First Century Schizoid Man and songs like Moon Child but the the configuration recorded that classic Guitarist Robert Drummer Michael. Giles lead vocalist. Greg Lake in McDonnell Peterson. Feel that lineup would not last. We move on through that first phase and again changing the lineups all along frith already developing the reputation. Gene is an incredible task master but sort of an passive aggressive way that English passive aggressive behavior that drives everybody nuts but at the same time they realize we're working with a genius you know working with a guy who's incredibly gifted and his drive in artistic. Ambition is drawing all these major talents to to that group to to see what they can come up with and I just have to insert here. Because I don't know where else that's GONNA fit. The number of people who at one point were considered as a vocalist Kalisz for King Crimson and rejected or who auditioned and they went in a different way. If you just look at that list Elton John was maybe going to sing in Crimson. Didn't happen Bryan. Very very it's like. Wow Yeah a lot of a lot of people came and went. Didn't even make it into the group. That's the standards are pretty darn high. By Red in seventy four their seventh album they had gone through a healthy and period where they were just going through band members and there was a lot of interpersonal feuding. Going thing on people coming in and out of the band it was to a trio. It was John Wooden on Bass and bill broussard on drums bill. Broussard was a teenager when he saw the in the court of the Crimson King Era Ban perform and like you were saying blown away by Michael Giles and everything. The ban was doing onstage in going. This is the future. This is what I wanNA want to do. A it would go on to play the. Yes he'd play with Genesis In and out of Crimson I found a fantastic interview with bill You've talked to. I've always admired him. I never had the pleasure of talking to him. He said when I was asked to join King Crimson quote it was. I knew it was going to be an interesting ride. I wasn't I think given a set list a reading list. J G Bennett. GERGIEV DEF- CASTENADA WICCA personality changes low level MAGIC PYROMANIAC Romania. See All of this was the magic in the court of the Crimson King This was going to be more than three chords and a pint of Guinness. He knew it. And you know L.. Broussard has always talked to himself about operating in this world between Rock and jazz and I think he saw that same promise in King Crimson can really define what we're doing by anyone genre. Let alone any multiple genres. They were their own thing their own sound. What are they they're King Crimson? There's no other way to describe it. This was very much true of read. The nineteen seventy four album which was performing incredibly fractured and painful time. In fact the band played its last Gig of that era in July and Central Park in New York City went into record this elm and then promptly broke up never toured behind this record. The just gotten rid of their violent player. David Cross who had done some really nice work on some of their earlier records in his actually heard on this record occurred on a live. Jam called Providence the penultimate track record. So they're down to this trail trip wet and Roofer and they come up with five tracks that to me. Despite the tension within the group are incredible red for example to me. I think it's almost like them. Pour out all the tension that was going on in the studio and did this incredibly abrasive brutal track that a lot of people have said this this is like a proto metal type of track. This is the future of metal music right here. The bands of the new metal movement revere Crimson and and if all you've heard is Moon Child you're going to be like what but but no you know wet and would go on to do some fascinating things I love the trio. UK that he was in with. Eddie Jobson who came in and did a little violin with Crimson in this era and later played with Roxy Music it and then was in Asia. The number of these Progressive Rock Pioneers. Who came from the PSYCHEDELIC era road road high with incredible invention throughout the seventies into the eighties? Who then decided? I'm going to cash in and make pop music now for em TV. I is is star but frith never did did that right Oh inbetween. Incredible explosions like red trip is making records with. I'm sorry Brian you know Right Murphy said he's playing with David Bowie writable guitar on heroes. He's going on these spiritual sojourns where he just goes. And let's all the top of the mountain contain multitudes as they say so that guy that brought the abrasion to read that heavy heavy riff that I think every guy guy who's picked up a guitar and played a form of hard rock or metal is probably memorized by now. You know to a track like fallen angel. Talk about the tweet side of the band and you go right like to that too You know and there's an oboe and a cornet head on their all these instruments. You don't hear on rock records. Typically Robin linking out right and and then you go into one more red nightmare where where. This is a vivid nightmare of a plane crash. You know weapons lyrics hear and that song evokes that you mentioned Giles's drumming in the Crimson King. Broussard is just outstanding here. And One more red nightmare he was talking about. You know listen to a lot of billy cobb and things like that. I mean those symbols symbol sound like they're being thrown across the room and breaking glass. I mean he's just slamming. Those things Aw Uh and the thought that he walked away from yes which was at the height of its popularity to join Crimson. I mean he was following an artistic muse because crimson was was a musicians band right at a fans fans band but they were not billing arenas the way yes was no they they had their cult fouling they summed it all up in the last track starless. Which is twelve minutes long? You know and it's another epic track Sax Oboe Double Bass it goes into this long sort sort of contempt midsection in just builds and builds and builds. I really saw that track is trying to sum up everything that that first incarnation of King Crimson Crimson was and then this was was in fact their last album of the seventies it came out in one thousand nine hundred. Seventy four and flip and King Crimson. We're not heard of until years later until the the eighties. No I mean you know that period of by the hardcore devotees is generally called seventy two to seventy five the improvisers Miri it right And then I'm watching. TV ABC is trying to jumped the gun on Saturday night. Live with a new show called Friday's right and it is largely forgettable. Michael Richards who go on to play Kramer and Seinfeld was pretty funny right and then there's this band and they played two songs. Elephant elephant talk and failure. Who gingy I had not thought about King Crimson since buying in the court of the Crimson King for five bucks at the department store And here they are with a completely new sound and some familiar faces. I'm a drum Super Geek. Bill Broussard is back with Robert trip. Tony Levin and you can lead with Peter Gabriel. He's super cool. And then there's this Guy Adrian blue. I'm already a big Brian. Eno Fan remain in light race by you know for the talking heads Adrian. Blue's on there. That's what he looks like. It looks like David Burge and this ban just blew my mind Aw I did talk to Broussard and I asked him what was that like. Because they made a sequence of three albums period discipline and eighty-one beaten eighty two three of a perfect pair in one thousand nine hundred four in everybody's thinking of King Crimson if they thought about them at all is this relic of another era and here. They made three albums interro. Starting with discipline put them right in the middle of what was happening in all the cutting edge music of that time you know they. They sounded of a piece with what was happening in the most avant-garde areas of new wave. Right they were they were right in the pocket could with the New York. City minimalism It was a very stripped down. Sound bropher what was going on there. He sounded nothing like the drummer. That played chess. Let's talk about the sound of the symbols on read. There's no symbol scenario semi roofer got rid of the symbols. He is playing some of the Simmons new very. We knew at that time electronic drums right not for nothing is it called the Rock Gamble on. He is into ultra repetitive minimalist. Rhythmic beat. Yeah that are as much each to do with Terry Riley Philip Glass as they are with anything in rock and roll a lot of Asian influence a lot of an African influence and Tony Levin Fantastic Bass Bass player but he was enamored of this new instrument. The Chapman Stanton ten string. Polyphonic two handed tapping guitar that has both base and travel and plus for the first time for the first time. Robert trip is sharing with the second guitar. So you you know Adrian Blues gotTa be good if rips GONNA lead guitarist onstage. He could see what Deluca do those sounds on elephant talk on the first track back on the record. I mean you're going. What is that I mean? At first I'm thinking was at Lebanon even with that stick and Balu later on talked about the effects that he was using to create the sound of what sounds like an elephant you know apparently some mix of an effects unit called a flatter and then a slide and various other effects but he was creating all these sounds at that frith was going we can do something with this. Bradford had a great quote. Whatever you did before you were in King Crimson? Would you please not do that while you're in a group. They wanted something new from every member of that band including Roofer he basically made brew for changes drumming style right. That's why you got this completely different sound than you had on red with blue. He goes I want you to make a sound but I want you to make that thing sound not like a guitar if you WanNa play with me and then the chapman stick. I'm sure front. It pushing the idea of like let's introduce this instrument and see what we can do with this in the context of a rock band. It's always about technology it's always. It's about virtuosity there are stretches where of the songs get lost but not at the expense of song generally and then also this brainy approach. There's a song on disciplined supply the sheltering sky a nod to Paul Bowl And for the second of that rock album beat once again. And he's giving a reading list to Adrian Blue and it starts with Jack Kerouac on the road. And you know the beat influence of Cara Wack Ginsberg burroughs. Paul Aw Bowls on discipline is already there. It's even Greater Neal and Jack and me is one of the songs on beat where they're saying Neal Cassidy. Yeah Blue's writing all the lyrics fix this is a matter of some frustration because rip Keno they're both geniuses. I revere but the band works a fourteen hour day and then the other boys frippery no stay in the studio and they improve right. This is difficult. Young musician is talented as proof of and blue you know it's like there's never any doubt that flips the boss but he doesn't act like a boss no no and apparently during the red sessions. He famously didn't say a thing. I'm not going to judge anybody. They're all GonNa Watch wait a minute. You're so you're going to judge us but you're just not gonNa tell us tell is you've got to give your opinion on this record. There were things like sacred tape-recording Adrian blue basically a field recording of blue describing this incident that occurred to him as he was walking around a mere mugging right any tape-recorded him and then it ends up on the track. That became indiscipline. I can't it around with me for days and days. He's an amazing piece of found sound. That sort of incorporated woven into this This track in a blue currently was okay with it. But he wasn't he. He didn't give his permission to be recorded hall. It's showing up on the track I. I'm thinking of a solid like elephants. It's very much in the mode of the talking heads right. You're talking a lot but you're not saying they said boroughs cut-up thing do like you know words that sound good together but don't necessarily surly makes sense initially so it is an interesting addition as vocalist because the other ones had all been more traditional singers John Wetten the great voice. Greg Lake a blue singing very much. David Byrne influenced style. Very strangulated agitated again. It sounds very much of a piece with what's going on in contemporary music at that time but yet sort of outside of it at the same time which to me is the genius of what can cream. Swimming's it's always been doing. What are your thoughts? It's about King Crimson. Give us a call at eight. Eight eight eight five nine hundred and leave a message with your opinion and why coming up. We'll discuss the lasting influence of King Crimson and will pay tribute to gang of four guitars. And that's in a minute on sound Indians. WBZ CHICAGO NPR. First of all. I couldn't see his face. Welcome come back to sound opinions. I'm Greg Cote here with Jim Carey Goddess and before the break we were talking about King Crimson nine thousand nine hundred eighty s rebirth. The lineup at that time included founder Robert trip up Bill Broussard. And featured the additions of vocalist Guitarist Adrian Blue and Tony Levin on Bass Guitar and Chapman stick his signature instrument but like other incarnations of the band. This lineup wasn't meant to last either three great albums an number of great tours. I saw them. They blew my mind and then without even telling anybody it's over brew head said I guess Robert was thinking you might as well quit while you're ahead and so King Crimson and ends in one thousand nine hundred eighty four for another ten years right You know our favorite periods as we've said are the debut album red and discipline supplant and that rock gallon era. You can get a headache and or drive yourself blind following King Crimson in the years that followed for awhile in the mid nineties. There were the double trios. It was like two two two bands in one and then something called the seven been headed beast. Then there was the double core tat Crimson continued through last year. They were out there touring. They were celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the debut album on the rare occasions when they have played older music. They've completely reinvented. Yeah they they just don't look back. Nostalgia is an athem to flip. He never looks back. He's always give me something new which to me is an admirable virtue and a John That is overcome with nostalgia now fifty years on most bands. It's our greatest hits continuing to make money on that. And he's never operated that way you know when you're talking about the bands that have been influenced by King Crimson. I'm greg they are legion. Which Crimson are we talking about their denounce thirteen almost completely different bands the flaming lips and their little brother? Bam The star breath in the white dwarfs actually covered recorded all of the court of the Crimson King. But then we have more esoteric influences. The Mars Volta in Primus Lada Crimson. IMPRIMIS fish rush the parts of fish. I like more anyway Porcupine Intri Steven Wilson bringing in the Prague world is a god in his own right like remixed some of the Crimson reissues the the now unfortunately named great metal band is is very much influenced by King Crimson. There cockbain was a huge fan of King Crimson and specifically read and I think what he saw was the punk inside the guy. This guy wasn't playing by anybody's rules rules except the ones that he made up. If there's one thread in the million interviews Robert has given since nineteen in sixty eight or sixty nine is that he hates the music industry. You know I mean it has given him a living. and He's played on innumerable great records like I said outside of King Crimson but teaches hates the whole business you know and it's soured him on it to the point where he would be on stage playing in the shadows. Yeah everybody who has a King Crimson Fan is desperate aspirin to see this man perform. He's such a genius musician and he in response would play in the deepest corners of that stage sitting down seeing the front to whoever. Was You know Adrian blue or whoever was the lead fronts singer at the time playing the role of basically an offstage ancillary salerii to his own group which is an odd way to to perform. But that's why he is revered in many ways this he does not perform or act like the typical rockstar. Dark you have. You got thoughts about king crimson a favourite album or era. Give us a call at eight. Eight eight eight five nine eighteen hundred hundred and leave a message with your thoughts That is the amazing feedback. Guitar Intro of gang of four's anthrax that is courtesy zero of the great guitarist. Andy Gill one of the founders of the band who died recently at the age of sixty four widely regarded greg as one of the most important guitar our players of the Post punk era and he certainly holds a special place in your heart. I know Yes jim absolutely. I always thought of gang afforts. Nineteen seventy seventy nine debut album entertainment exclamation point as one of the perfect albums of the last forty years. Great debut great album. A signpost the whole post-punk era gills. Guitar playing you know. Everybody had thought that everything that could be said with guitar. Heaven said I mean we'd had Jimi Hendrix. Right right what else. What are you go from there? I think Gill found a new approach to the instrument that ushered in an entire era of bands and approaches to that instrument he. He was the anti lead guitarist he was anti Solo. He made that Guitar Sound Brittle and cold. Instead of warm and voluptuous dealer. Angular is the gang of four and Andy Gill in particular. You know in a typical band hierarchies you know the guitar is on top and the rhythm sections kind of support instruments in gang of four. I talked to a number of times where he was describing the approaches horizontal. We were lying. These instruments up side-by-side where the vocals locals and they get tar. We're on equal footing with the drums and the bass. Fortunately they had tremendous musicians on each of those instruments Hugo Burnham on drums Dave Allen on Bass John King with very distinctive sing speak vocals and then gill alongside that using noise as a texture and an approach to new ornamental. The songs rather than Solos are fills here is a bit of an interview that we did with Andy Gill where. He's describing his guitar playing on the Vit- contrary that is definitely part over. Yeah it's just there's enough noodling in the world you know there's enough guitar. Solos is in a an and the noise thing is somehow inherently more interesting an ironically. I'm not technically I can't do backwards. Mix Lydian Schuyler down the guitar stuff that people can do but I just really sit as a as a a noise machine and want to use it to you. Add affecting colored up to to the structure of the thing. I kind of see the you know the bass and drums as being this kind kind of grid and was like I'm good. Is that holding this thing together and guitar can either go along with that. And reinforce that or it can be splattered across is it. Luckily Jackson Paula come so does different things different times yes Gil. His approach was revolutionary You can hear it an on those first few records entertainment as I mentioned as well as solid gold songs of the free and hard gang of four had intimate reunions throughout them the one constant through them all all was Andy Gill hugely influential as I mentioned When you think about artists as diverse as rem pylon? Kurt cobain of Nirvana. Lana the Red Hot Chili peppers whose debut album gill produced Friends Ferdinand the rapture future has radio for block party all of them mentioning mentioning Gill as a transformative guitarist in that late seventies early eighties period bringing that instrument into a new era. Great example of his plane from the debut album album. Natural's not in it from gang. Unsound onto up next stances. Yeah so uh-huh uh-huh that was natural's not in it by gang of four in tribute to end gilded guitarist. Dead at the age of sixty four Greg. His surviving bandmates John. King Hugo Burnham Dave Allen had a great statement and underscored how much they laughed together but how they also wanted to change the world and the political outlook UNAPOLOGETICALLY leftist can change the world. or at least it can change you when when you go out and change the world. That was a big part of their inspiration. Greg what do we have on the show next week Jim. We believe that everyone is critic. This time. The critics are on the spot. You the listeners are GONNA ask US questions and we're GONNA try to respond as openly and honestly as we can that will be fun. You can download the sound of podcasts wherever you get such things. The show is produced by Brendan Banish. Alex clayborn ionic contrary and sound opinions. Everyone's a critic so now it's time to hear what you have to say at from a single honest dude it down the thing new messages. Hi Jim Incorrect. This is Casey calling from Mason Ohio. I'm calling to talk about your most recent episode about musicians in acting emails. I guess my favorite recently is Chicago native Jennifer Hudson and herbal in drinker up from American idol in the third season again but the best supporting actress award for the worst. But the show. Keep doing what you're doing. Thanks Bye Hi my name is Alan from Chicago. I love Y'all show. I can't believe though if you're gonNA talk about communications in the big Lebowski but you left out. Jimmie Dale Gilmore Guitars from Texas. Who Plays smokey The guy who crosses the line John Goodman bowl the guy you know during world of Walter come on? It's just a ban smoking so his toe slipped over little. You know it's just the game man. This is a league game. This determines who enters the next round robin raw. Yeah but I was wrong give. It wasn't over. Given the marker dude a Markkanen eight Mochi not my friend uttering a world of pain for her. Hey Jimmy Greg. My Name's Sam Fam- Oregon the best film acting performance by musician is vendor slush the circle jerks performance in straight to help which is a film bad. Alex Cox John Stars the pogues and Joe Strimmer and Elvis Costello but the song self that you catch it but zander under slashes character. Carl and Carl's Disco Weiner Havens. I think is by far my favorite performance by musician in the all right thanks for taking my call. Love the show he later. Hey guys this is ted calling from Mount Kisco New York Calling about the musicians as actors show. That just happened. You know when I heard you announced that the first name I thought of and I was surprised to hear her mentioned. We share dare. Maybe an obvious choice but I want to highlight Her work in use the parlance of sound opinions and other buried treasure film. Peter Bogdanovich is mask where share plays a Basically a motorcycle motorcycle gang groupie In California raising a son who's got a rare disease that causes a facial deformity and and she it's A. It's a brilliant movie. Her performance in it is just excellent. I'm going to need some additional inflammation. Don't jerk me around him not in the mood the real crappy day so far I I find out that we're in the wrong school district. I gotta come down here and play pussyfoot with you a copy of our lease this is a copy of rocky's birth certificate. Eric and this is his last report card from Stephen Junior high school where he was in the top five percent of his class and got some additional information for my lawyers. NAME IS B Higgins. and He's told me of my rights. If you give me any off he's going to drag your ass into court. Well the show guys. Thanks no more messages to share. Share your opinions on sound opinions. Call eight eight eight eight five nine eighteen hundred. We'll be back next week on sound opinions from W._B._Z.. Chicago and distributed by P._R. Ex.

King Crimson Crimson King Crimson Michael Giles Crimson King Robert Bill Broussard Jimmy Greg Adrian Blue Bob Frith Tony Levin Primus Lada Crimson Emerson Lake London Andy Gill Frith Chicago partner King Rimsson
21 - Freeman Thomas: Part 1

Cars That Matter

33:38 min | 6 months ago

21 - Freeman Thomas: Part 1

"From commedia. This is horse that matter. This is Robert Ross with cars that mattered welcome to another episode. This one done remotely since we're all enjoying the privacy of our own homes these days, hopefully for shorter duration than longer I'm here with an old friend I'm looking at onscreen. Freeman Thomas Freeman to the program. It's great talk here today. Thank you Robert. It's really a pleasure to be here to see you on. On screen and is a shame. We can't be in person, but it is what it is. You know and so close and yet so far both Californians. The freemen, and not just Californians were probably only about ten miles away from one another as we speak Freeman. You've been at this business for a long time and have a great laundry list of marks and designs to your. Your credit I remember meeting you back. In nine hundred ninety seven is where we first met, and it was a porsche dealership. You may recall that I was excited. I just ordered a new nine three C.. Forests in I went out on. Eliminate ordered it in color. Gulf blue everybody thought I was crazy except the sales. Guy Fella named Steve conjure great guy and Steve said. Said well, you know as a matter of fact, we've got a friend and a customer. This fella named Freeman Thomas and he'd love to meet you down here. With his Gulf blue nine eleven, and that was the first day we met I went down there, and you had the most exquisite career a parked on the lawn. My mistaken it's about nine, hundred, seventy, four, seventy five. Yeah in Mexico blue. Okay well, my apologies, no, no. You probably got my friend as Steve. Anderson had a Gulf blue one. That was Steve's okay, so yours was Mexico and his was golf. Okay? Yes, what a great pair of colors! Obviously, the I have a designer would have chosen that. Mexico blue, an iconic color in the history of Porsche. What year was that? It was a seventy four career as well. I got it with about seventeen thousand original miles on original paint. It was an amazing car. You Know I. Remember you having a Carreira to with cup wheels on it. That was in that color. Wasn't Amazon Green or something a Meta? It was Turquoise Green. Metallic Yeah now did you have that before? Or after the nine nine three, no I bought that new back in ninety one, and that was really my first nine eleven and man. What a car that was! You know Coulda woulda shut of those cars. You wish you still had and I'm sure you've got a much longer laundry list of those than I do. Remember that car driving around, and it had the look about it because you had lowered at the wheels on it and I can't remember if you had the speedster seat senator, not I did it was funny I got a call from a dealer at the sales guy at circle Porsche one day, and he said you know. I got a big fat dentist that wants to buy a speedster. But he can't fit and I know your car house. Those crate sports seats in it. Would you ever be interested in trade in the buckets from this speedster for the? Car and I said you bet in a heartbeat, so that kind of completed the long before there was an R. S. America, or or any of those cars available Freeman where to even start I'm always interested in where people went to school, and how they kind of learned their trade growing up. What was it like? How'd you fall in love with cars? And how'd you end up going to arts center. Well. I was really fortunate in the sense that my dad, who was in the air force as we were growing up in the we're talking nineteen sixties on. He was stationed, seemed like in Europe, so we would go with them, and I was fortunate to live in countries like Norway Spain Greece Germany. My mom is German and my uncle worked for Bausch, and so I was kind of bitten by the car bug Marie early age and being in Europe, as a Californian kind of going back and forth I became this kind of hybrid between my American, Dad and my German mother, and so started looking at things from a different lance, and the car we had in Europe was fifty seven Buick roadmaster. Gosh were an outlier. Yes so and that was pretty amazing, driving through the streets of Europe. Up to about nineteen, sixty six and I was so mesmerized by European, design culture everything from graphic design to product design to architecture to culture, and then when I would come back to the states I would look at it through the Lens of that mixing in with American culture, and so when I turned seventeen in high school. We were just a middle class family and I really wanted to get back to Europe. And so what I did was I, joined the Air Force's well and long story short I ended up in Oxford England, and so on a small base called upper hatred, and I bought a motorcycle that was my dream. Motorcycle was on honesty before hundred ass, oh, yeah, that was A. That was a great pike. Thousand Nine hundred seventy five night God in spring of seventy, six, with leftover was all red with the red side cover, and I ended up putting over ten thousand miles on that bike in the first year before started getting cold and I ended up. Putting is on it, and Katie one dunlop's and I rode bike everywhere and an England the early days. I could go to places like auto farm and I. Go to all the dealers I go down to London and see launches stratas in the window, and it really great stuff on the road in long this whole time sketching and drawing and had no knowledge that there was even this profession. Profession of automotive design which I kind of felt you had to be a bit of a left brainer really to be an automotive designer, but in fact it's the opposite. It's being right, brained, and really being able to envision and create, and sometimes it has nothing to do with what's rational because if we're looking at the future, we don't understand what connects us yet. So when I got back out of the Air Force, there was a small paragraph in Rhode Track magazine about a school, and they marked center, and about how this Guy Bill Dobson down about the school, and could understand how you can get a degree for just drawing cars and. They pay me for this. Wet tarts. And I is literally fell out of my head. I felt that I had found my home and I went through all the classrooms went through the gallery, and so I didn't have a portfolio didn't have a background, so I took a night class actually took a couple of night classes and ended up building up a portfolio in got admitted into art center. And then by the second term, I got a half scholarship. They were only giving half scholarships. And then by the fourth term, I got a full scholarship, and so I went through art center. Great Teachers Struggle Mak men try, and he was a fixture. He was one of he was the Guy Harry. Bradley Harry Bradley hated me, but gave me a every time. There was just amazing inspirations and influences, and by the end of fifth semester we had Larry Shinoda came out to the school. and. He interviewed or class, and he wanted to pick two people to go back with him to Indiana to be an insurance, and he was international trucks at that time, so he picked my friend Albert you in myself, so we went back spent the whole summer with Larry Shinoda design team, and what I found when I was in Fort Wayne Indiana, where a lot of the Detroit designers Kinda gone after their career ended in Detroit just for listeners who don't know literally was one of the most important designers of. Of the sixties, yes, some incredible cars to his credit out and getting to know that I have because I've always been fascinated by automotive history and people, and just where things came from and so Larry was amazing. He was outspoken. He was brash and the talent that was in that studio was amazing so at the end of the summer. He asked me he goes. Hey, kid, where do you WanNa work when you graduate mart? Center and I said Boy Larry I would love to work at Porsche. And so he said you know I'll tell you something. When I was at GM skunkworks, I worked with Tony Levin Anatole, appealing oil, and so that was a magic curate GM, when stuff was really done in the basement and Bill Mitchell and Harley Earl where the kings of really what was happening at General Motors, and so he contacts Tony looking any comes back after lunch, and he says a Freeman I just talked with Tony. He really loved. You would send your portfolio so I put my portfolio together. And made slides and I sent him over to Porsche to Tony Levin and within about two weeks gone off before in graduate just finished fifth semester, and they were trying to talk me into coming over before I graduate. And so went back to art center's strength. McMahon basically said No. You have to finish and I. wrote Porsche back, and they said No. We'll hold the job for you and so as soon as I graduated. To Porsche. Foil. This is great. We're GONNA. Take a quick break. We'll be right back. If you're like us, you're looking for a way to make stay at home a little more special. We're GonNa let you in on our secret. Join Rob Vices to get luxury cocktail kits, toys, tools, tech, and other incredible items delivered straight to your home on a monthly basis. The value is incredible. Your first box is going to be a four hundred dollar to kill a curation, and you can sign up for as little as ninety nine bucks a month. Use The code podcast, and you'll save an extra fifty bucks at sign up, so had to rob vices dot com to bring exciting experiences safely to your door for member. Use The code podcast and go to ro BB, v I C. E S Dot Com. Freeman. Let's get right back into it. Obviously that time at Porsche, working in the context of such great cars and great people inform your love of that mark, and it carries on today. I guess you jumped ship from Porsche you went to Volkswagen. Do some pretty important things there is that right. Yeah, well, what happened? Was I was at Porsche? And then I got married, and then went back to California, and about a couple of months after I was in California I said it. My own design firm and on the phone was Dick Soderberg. Was My boss Porsche Dick by the way get a little bit of background Dick Design. The bodies of nine coarser race cartridge starting with. With nine three through to nine thirty five project chief in design for nine, five nine Dick was an amazing designer, and so he called me up and he said look. Would you be interested in contracting with us? And I said absolutely so at this time toilet pinhead retired unharmed. I was in and harm flew out to California, spent the day with me, and basically gave me kind of a blank check to start working with Orsha in so I had a studio setup intervene, and then eventually they talked me into coming back device, Zach and went back to is Zach and I was there until the end of nineteen ninety during one thousand nine hundred ninety mays calls me up. And he says look where opening up a new studio in California and I understand. You're the guy that's supposed to be with nature. And because one of the monitors that I work with, and I worked very closely on a lot of projects, Porsche name is banked when Jay was looking for is the chief designer basically bankers and he said who should I get in? recommended me, and so I actually turned jay down four times because I was having a great time at Porsche was a really good situation for us, but at the end cited know this is going to be a really good deal was insanely valley had never been to see value for because I was down in Orange County so got together, and we started that studio in January of ninety one and I stayed really good. Good friends with all my colleagues at fortune even to this day have a great relationship with all of them, because it's one family, designers are like basketball players in the sense. That doesn't matter what team you're quite four. They respect you for who you are. That's right especially because there is a bit of a revolving door, people go from one company to another, and that's how great ideas get shared and Kinda spread across the landscape. Yeah, we have some great names. Great people great town. Great collaboration will obviously it's a BORSA serious fruit because very shortly afterward you and your cronies unleash the new beetle into the world. Yeah, and that was. It was interesting because. We were alley and we came back one day and decided that first of all you were thinking early nineties. This is ninety, one ninety, two and Volkswagen about ready to leave the US market that's right, and with no Volkswagen there would be no Audi and so we created a presentation. There was an idea for California. That there would be a mandate for electric occasion, and so we came up with this idea colliding bug, and the original idea was a electric modern futuristic needle end up would be to the kind of concept that original beetle was in its engineering, and its way, in which the body was pancake can escape or kind of structure with a body that came out with sanders and so forth, but really jim metric shapes, and so we took this idea to Harvard Marcus and presented the idea, and he gave us the approval with a small budget to go to the next step with it. Boy, how far ahead of the curve where you guys back then? As it went forward, we did a full size model, which was the concept one and it was presented to Napa. Fell in love with it. And he was just newly in his role as the head of the Volkswagen, group, and of course, being the grandson Ferdinand Porsche that's right. There was a real legacy there. Yeah, and so that was part of it, and it was also a way that he would have a voice to talk about the future, and so it got reminded to go to Detroit in January ninety four. And what we did! What a lot of people don't know is that while we were building that car? We had already thought proactively to start designing a convertible version, and then of course at Detroit, it was so successful that said I want a convertible for the Geneva autoshow in ninety four. That was march so only a couple of months later, so we really rushed to have that thing and get air it in, and the rest is really history on that. It's something where we didn't invent the beetle in going to the history of designers and the beetle, you'll see a lot of designers trying to redesign the beetle. Separated us was our approach towards it. Our approach was very serious product design, but the perfect mix between being whimsical to where you related to the original, but looking forward. It wasn't remotely derivative. It wasn't a pastiche. It wasn't a retro anything. It was absolutely freshman design as revolutionary in many ways as the original beetle, and yet it was deferential and respectful to the history of that iconic car. You and you know as a designer. There's to Jack Trees one subject -Tory is. Is the designers vision, and the other is reality, and the Beatles that came out was reality I think that had they allowed us to take that trajectory of concept one all the way to fruition. I think that we would have been really ahead of the curve I would have had probably the first skateboard platform chassis. We would have had electric vacation. We would have had sustainability. It also have to remember. We developed special tires for that original concept that we're tall narrow. Narrow tires would basically same sizes. What's on an ice three right now? That's right. It is what you need for aerodynamic efficiency, and all sorts of things that, of course nobody even recognized back then as being certainly, a public didn't recognize it as being a wave of the future, the most difficult part not with Fernando, but there was a lot of individuals within Volkswagen management that just didn't understand the humanity part of what the beetle represented especially to Americans you and I. I sat down as we were developing when I was doing the interior of the car, I sat down in a sketched out a little vase. Because I remember the the trials, tall vases of the fiske's, that's right, and a lot of the guys in the studio didn't understand the meaning of that laws, and they come over to my desk and they would say. What are you doing I? Haven't sketched on the instrument panel in Nice little flower coming out of it in. mays came over, and he took one look at and he goes. We're doing that. Without was spell a certainly an iconic flourish with the design and again spoke so much to the humanity that is really a part of every piece of creative design. Well, the concept, one of beetle really propelled Jay into the position of being asked to become director of design for Audi so. Jay Tried to talk me into coming back with them to Ingoldstadt again. I kept turning down because I had already reestablished myself back in in the states, which is pretty difficult. For Awhile, absolutely especially from the thick of great designed to outskirts and CB valley southern California right. That's a tough move well. anyways, he goes well. Would you be interested in coming over on a business trip and go? Yeah I have no problem with that so went over. He goes out and find an apartment so I, went with his business manager went around and found this brand new apartment, and while I was in the studio sitting there doodling and Jake came by my desk and he goes. What's that and it's just a little sports car I'm thinking of and he was. Can I borrow it and I go! Yeah, go ahead, and he comes back a couple of hours later. He goes look. Look I shared this with Dr Path Skin Dr Pepper skin than point was ahead head of development for rowdy. That's right. He's in love with this car. He wants you to do it and he goes, but you can't do it here. You've got a designed it in your apartment in so that evening they put a drawing table in my apartment. And meanwhile they started setting up a place out in Gamers Heim place called oodles often up in the attic where they quickly put flooring down and modeling table some boards and stuff like that and I picked to bottlers to work with me on this new concept mazing, and so we literally only had from the start of that project to a presentation of. Two weeks and we had to have a scale model is sketches, good heavens, and so we did the scale model and I did another thumbnail and the scale model of was the open version of the car, but this little sketch was coupe, and PX saw the little sketch of the coup, and in his very Austrian. Voice Egos, but what I want is a coup and looks at the sketchy goes avant Zeus coach. That was it well? Belt was the launch at one of the most exciting designs of the decade. Yeah, that was pretty exciting. That was probably one of the rare moments where I think a designer could take a vision and really do that vision unencumbered by yet echoed by people around you. That felt the same same credible, and of course that was for listeners who don't know that became the Audi team. What a thing! Obviously, the car made a huge impact in. It is continued with today. It's gotTA. Be Pretty gratifying to see that of course I'm sure that concepts are always the best everything. Lose a little something in translation, but what's amazing is that it was allowed to get loosened. Make such an impact on the world. It's because the vehicles designed out of the most pure geometric shapes, the collaboration, also working with Jay and myself, putting the whims of coal aspect to the silhouette. In looking at the instruments in looking at some of the details, but the geometry really is that influence going back and forth in that collaboration in so that's really important, and so what that did for me was it set my road of a philosophy getting a little bit more cemented down of the type of designer. I enjoyed being in that collaboration with engineering and coming up with endearing kinds of concepts that had story coming up with a name coming up with the ecosystem around it. You know because I story boarded behind the scenes. What that car was about what the culture was about in a show? That came to be true. Hold that thought Freeman. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. A moment of your time. A new podcast from Kurt media. Currently twenty one years, old and today like magic independent from her fingertips down to the. Of yourself because the world needs you and just. About me was ready to spit on my dream. Seniors were facing to feel like your purpose in your worth is really being stopped me from playing the piano she buys walkie talkies wonders to whom she should give the second. Humans, we never did we never will we just find beauty of rock? Climbing is that you can only focus on what's right now. And so are American life begins. We may need to stay apart, but let's create together available on all podcast platforms submit your piece Kirk Dot com slash moment of your time. Welcome back to cars. Matter free. You also spent some time at Chrysler. Is that right? At the end of the nineties I was approached by DaimlerChrysler to become the VP of advanced design and architecture, so I talked a lot with my wife. About what should we do here? We're doing really well Audi will love what we're doing. I joined Democrats because it was an amazing opportunity I. Knew I needed to grow up a little bit and mature, because you're I, was kind of like a weed growing, but I happen to have a nice flower blooming on me, but I needed to have a bit of discipline to go into that type of industry and the American automotive industry is very structure really structured. And so the first project that I was given, there was to redesign their front wheel drive cars, which was the Chrysler, three hundred, and the concord, and we first brought it into the vehicle architecture in. We had the opportunity because at that time the merger with Mercedes allowed to use a lot of the parts. Try and so we looked at how we could utilize some of that. That part Stan and so we came up with the idea. Let's do a front engine rear wheel, drive architecture and looking at the Hemi engine in a Mercedes Gearbox Mercedes irs suspension all of that, and so we set that up in basically what we call the class of vehicle, and so under that D class. It's basically a five meter vehicle it. SORTA gets cut off and so. So then what we did was we started looking at scenes. Now went out to California to the Pacific Studio and there was a young designer Robert Man and he did this concept called America, and it was kind of boxy thing at that point. I was smitten by this thing, and so I told them let's continue with that idea I brought that idea also back to Auburn Hills. Hills and I put that idea into the architectural studio and we we blocked at seeing out in full size clay, and so at that point, it was nothing more than two boxes on top of each other two rectangles, and it really didn't have a story AH, and so then it's not about the idea of a very high shoulder single cabin and you come up with metaphors. Gangster an is bad ass, kinda machine, and then I was walking down the hall, and they had these beautiful photographs of the cars concept vehicles that were done previously, and I came across the Cronos concept her and I looked at the cronos done by Osama Chicago and I thought. Wow, that's the front of the car there. It is and I went back into the studio and I asked. Do we have the digital math for the kronos in? They looked at up Nigo. Yeah, we have it I. Go. Let's mill the front end of that. That car on that block of clay right away, and so we did that in somehow that seemed magically started to come together, but that project was highly highly controversial you the whole time, so what I'm transitioning to at that point is becoming a design director kind of like within a movie, collaborating between writers and cinematographers and story borders, and all of that let taking advantage of a broader teen, and so looking at the history behind that with the Ghia history was really strong, coming up with the words Noble American Sedan Noble American sedan. Sedan you know that's right, because there was such a thing at a time, absolutely well, you look at a Chrysler New Yorker. Are you at the original Chrysler three hundred from the fifties from the very first one up through the fence, they were magnificent cars while an image of the first one with Ernest Hemingway driving it. You know just amazing. And then I thought about Steve McQueen. I saw of Human Thomas Crown Affair and I imagine. What would this vehicle be like? On the streets of Paris and there Steve McQueen driving it and people. People look at Steve McQueen would say well. He's an American, but he has these European sensibilities, and so it was a mix of all of this team, and so we ended up creating this amazing inside outside property, it had the full seem of the Chrysler. Three hundred on it in, so we took it through what we call network research, which created a kind of a divided love and hate kind of thing was really split in the middle, and it really wasn't until dealers, chick came along and sing sort of idled in the pipeline. And then dealers, Asha Wolfgang came along and basically saw it and said we're building vet, and so that's when things got really moving, and and it's really interesting now to see on the street with your big dub wheels on it an attitude, and and it's the one Chrysler people still kind of caveat, and look at and absolutely in. It still looks much like well much like any great design. It really endures. It has longevity that the clip says it's A. A model year they still look right. Yeah I really love trying to create that secret sauce that combined story combines engineering combines purpose function with culture in I came up with the word. Cultural aspect is to create something that looks distinctively American distinctively. German distinctively British well as designing, but it's kind of like looking at him. Pal and a lot of it is self editing you sit there and you sketch and in the beginning, it might not start that way. As you challenge your thoughts. You start looking at things, and sometimes it's that magic element. It's Chrysler three hundred. He was not only the proportions. Shoulder chopped roof. But it was that front end that front end was really important to kind of create the fates in the identity and a face of a car, the first six inches of Har-. Are probably the most valuable real estate because that's what defines a BMW from a Mercedes, that's right. Everything else is so much the same I'd like to get your take on what I call grill wars, and how everything today seems to be defined by grill that is such a caricature of its former self, beloved marks like BMW or creating these things that are just to their visual tross and their grotesque. Thank you coming from a designer. Designer, that actually means something. I'm just a guy with an opinion. You actually know what you're talking about, so you would have to say that. Contemporary Designs really sort flown things all of proportion Tikka mark anymore whether it's Lexus BMW or even beloved, they've all become rather caricatures of the former self I think boldness and confidence. There's a saying that if you have a logo or a name in, it's really important. You make that logo small. kind of like having a white wall in. Maybe if there's a canvas on two inches by two inches, you'll be compelled to come towards it and see what that is you know because of the importance of a banksie would be something that would be something like that. A normal graffiti artists would try to cover the wall that's right and I also love designs that are guerrillas because as. As you get into the future and there's no longer function. It's like I. If you remember in the nineteen fifties for instance on a Volkswagen Porsche, a lot of the coach builders recoup grills on the front of the coach Bill, W, and porsches any look raw. That's right, and it's like a fake scoop. Absolutely, there's gotta be a an authenticity a design in design following the function. Let me. Ask you this Freeman. I'm always curious. When I talked designers, I remember talking to Tom. Jarred years and years ago, he designed to of course, the four headlight Ferrari three thirty, and what onto design, the famous Fiat twenty four spider, and Terry, and of course, Pan Tara can't forget Tara. But I marveled speaking with him once he never even had an opportunity to own needless cars so than one twenty four later on in life. What about you do you have a desire to own any of these designs created or do you have any of the? Did Audi allowed me to buy the last mark. One Audi t t that was California, complain and they actually built it as a two thousand six model in two thousand five was actually the last year it was delivered to me in two thousand six in ice special order the car in aviator, gray and color and funny thing I did with it was I. Put it away. And it never got more than. Thirty eight miles on it. It had all the packing on it. I just kept it in stores and just until earlier this year. I have a friend has a collection, and I offered it to him, and he wanted the car, and so it's now sitting in a beautiful collection also owns Distractions Zero Concept Oh good heavens, yeah, so it sits right next to the strategy zero and some other concepts that I. I'm not that will to say yet that he's. GonNa be getting, but they're all icons, so I'm very proud that he has it. That's great. Yeah, that's a fantastic. Freeman I have so much to talk about, so we're going to continue our deep dive. Even more subjects next time on cars the matter. From. This episode of cars was hosted by Robert Ross. Produced by Chris, Porter edited by H H. Moseley Sound Engineering by Michael Kennedy theme song by Celeste and Eric Dick. Additional music and sound by Chris Border. Come back next time as we continue to talk about the passions, drivers in the passions we drive. Comb media. Media for your mind.

Porsche Freeman Thomas Freeman California Volkswagen Audi Jay Europe Detroit Mexico Freeman Thomas Chrysler Robert Ross Air Force Steve Mercedes mays Robert Larry Shinoda Steve McQueen Ferdinand Porsche
 Trump's coming to see the Queen but what actually happens on a state visit?  podcast

Today in Focus

25:26 min | 1 year ago

Trump's coming to see the Queen but what actually happens on a state visit? podcast

"Today as the UK prepares for Donald Trump's arrival a bomb is former national security adviser tells us what really happens on a state visit and pull Owen on Robert Mueller and the potential impeachment of the president. I helped oversee President Obama speechwriting his communications in also come the planning about where he was going to go what he was going to do. So foreign trips actually, usually quite intense for me. Ben Rhodes was national security adviser to Barack Obama and for the eight years of his presidency bene- company to bomber on foreign trips and state visits right around the world. We're in Normandy, for the d day anniversary in the French are having this very lavish formal. Once for all these farm leaders in, like Chateau. I'd actually been out like very late the night before and Paris. So I'm sitting like the staff area outside of where all the leaders are having lunch and start looking for a restroom. And I walk up to this, this restroom and the doors closed in, you know, sometimes you can't tell if anybody's in there. So I'm like, fiddling with the doorknob and like pushing on the door. And I know when you're the person inside. That's really Norring. So I finally figured out. Okay. This, this is closed is lot. And I take one step back and then the door opens, and it's the Queen. It's up to people like Ben that these trips go smoothly, especially a state visit to the UK, America's closest ally, and she adjusts, her handbag, I'll never forget it very formal on her forearm and just kind of looks at me. Like I'm the biggest loser. Ever walked on the face of the earth. And I probably was in that moment. Keeping things running smoothly isn't always easy, especially when the president is Donald Trump. On his first visit to the UTA last year. He was forced to stay away from London by huge protests and found himself at the center of his own mishap with the head of state appeared that the president was in Berkeley, no doubt blocking out the Queen, but despite this, he's back and on Monday. He will begin an official state visit which will take place in Buckingham Palace and Downing Street from the guardian I'm indirection today in fakest. What's at stake on a state? Visit. President Obama is in London today for two days state visit Queen Elizabeth, welcome in this morning in a ceremony at Buckingham Palace CBS Barack Obama came his state visit to the UK in two thousand eleven Ben you had a crucial role in that. So what is the state visit full? Well, it's basically elevated level. Visit anywhere you go. There's like a regular working, visit where you show up, you have meetings, you do some other things a state, visit usually means that they throw all the bells and whistles on it. You know, there's a state dinner, there's a fancy arrival ceremony, but particularly matters in the United Kingdom because they stayed visit means that it's a rural visit and that you're going to have a state dinner at Buckingham Palace. And they're usually lots of pomp and circumstance that goes along with it. So state visit is kind of a regular visit on steroids. So I'm upset you today how you actually go about preparing for it state. Visit like how decide where you're gonna go. Oh, how much say do you get how about it? Well, what's interesting is usually the country. You're visiting has a menu things that they do for state visits. Right. So the British government will come to you and say, here's kind of the package for the state visit, and there's usually some kind of a rival ceremony. There's the state dinner, there's the formal meeting at ten Downing Street, and so there are these building blocks that are always gonna be in place, and then you always sit down and think about what do we want to get done here. What, what messages do we want to send beyond these formal elements one thing that was really great. When Obama went is they invited him to address the UK parliament at Westminster Hall. Obama, which was very rare honor. I am told that last three speakers here have been the pope her majesty the Queen and Nelson, Mandela, which is either a very high bar or the beginning of the very funny joke. And I seem to see slaving over this. I ten Ray how many people get involved prepare it in this case, it's not just the people working on the US UK relationship. It's people working on Libya Afghanistan, who are feeding into that. Then you have the presence communications people thinking about okay, what's the messages that we wanna be projecting back home? Then you have these massive advanced teams in secret service teams who go out weeks in advance, and they look at all the different sites will be visiting and they time the motorcade routes, and they plan the security it ends up, adding up to hundreds and hundreds of people working on and supporting visit for the president states on, you get a sense. As well at the periphery, perhaps of the number of. Vans that carry that rates political aids, a medical team, nurses, doctor surges, even carry with them sped blood for emergency chunk transfusion Americans are little ridiculous. I think we fly everything, so we fly, the presence limousines over there. You take you take your limousine. We fly them in an airplane. Right. And so you fly the limousine over there, multiple scenes to because they're different motorcades and oversee gifts alone. How do you decide on what you're going to give people? Well, we have a protocol office, but the funny thing about this is usually, this is kind of routine, but in the first trip to London, I think Abam gave Gordon Brown DVD's, and he gave the Queen and I pop, right? And we thought I, I wasn't really involved in the decision making that I'm trying to Chirc responsibility or anything, but I think the thinking was like Obama's new younger guy. We'll be kind of casual. Here's some movies. You're some you. And there was all this pushback that this was not presidential. It's funny. The pre Trump days, it was not presidential to give someone DVD's. What happens when you arrive because you've got this shot, Joe, you fly over your limousines, you land what happens. So we got there late at night. And then the next morning, there's, like a ceremonial welcome where there's a big ceremony at Buckingham Palace in the garden there. And. A forty one gun salute or something. Obama towards Palestinian meets with some royals and then he goes to Downing Street, I think, for the formal meeting if I remember correctly. What's it like that? Now, see everyone kinda looks forward to these encounters with the royals how how's the banquet? So the world thing was really interesting because we go to the banquet. And I I'm standing there, and I have to mitt I love the rolls. Right. And I've never met people who could so easily make like four minutes of conversation, and then just politely. Stop and move onto the next person. Right. And so that was kind of the whole experience of people whose, like, hold job is to be able to make four minutes of very good conversation about interesting topics. And so you had this feeling of being loaded into this sense of luxury in history. And then you go into this very formal horseshoe shaped table setup, which is unlike any other state, visit I been at where everybody's sitting around with the Queen and Obama, head of the table. Mr President, I'm delighted to welcome you. And this is to London. Did you have to press a bomb on what to do not, what sort of things to say one hundred percent like, you know, the toast, I remember, he, he, I think he messed it up, actually tour majesty the Queen? The vitality of the special relationship. And he said, T long in his speech and the orchestra thought he'd stopped, and they just sort of struck up and started the national anthem. The single to the quake. Is supposed to stand up and turn in a certain direction and make a certain gesture and then turn back. And then there was a lot of protocol into what he did. But it's not all about the, the pomp and ceremony. There is work to be done. And like you said a bomb spent a lot of time with Cameron. It's a pleasure to welcome President Obama here today. How does that fit in around all the fighter warps in the kind of the most fun, ceremonial moments for state visit you knew you have a longer meeting. So I think he had at least a couple of hours. With Cameron, and you meet kind of one on one or they meet in very small group. And then they need with kind of their whole team or cameras, this whole cabinet there in the in the cabinet room number ten and at that time, we were planning, you know what is to withdrawal scheduled from Afghanistan. What is the situation in Libya? And so when you get along with your allies, the meetings aren't at all ten, there's no tension, right? It's, it's not about, like can we overcome this difference? It's about what do we want to do together. Visits Roper -tunities for kind words and fructose Kohl's number ten thinks they didn't come this president and prime minister serving burgers to British an American military servicemen at Downing Street barbecue. We had to find a sport that they could play together. And presumably is that one should be able to beat the other one? That's the problem is think, you know, bomb plays basketball, I think Cameron played tennis. Obama doesn't play tennis. And they were going to play tennis. Right. And, and then it was like they play soccer Cameron's, people were like he's not playing basketball. Do not wanna see David Cameron trying to shoot a basketball that would be very bad thing for him and everybody I'd like to say that. So like ping pong was like the safe like thing. Right. But it turns out that neither of them are particularly good at ping pong either did neither them flag that up. I think they both probably thought. Oh, yeah. I know to play ping pong. But then they end up getting beaten by some kids or something. And this kind of bothered Obama. This is very competitive. But in laughing way, but he did kind of say he wish he had that back. But, you know, hey better to lose to the kids into to look like a couple jerks like firing ping pong balls kids. So I mean you said that this visit his Tony Levin, it felt pretty good. The two countries were allies. Let's talk now about Trump's visit. The relationship, perhaps it's, it's good. No, no. To say the least it's not unless I'm he came. He his visit was downgraded. It was basically a state. Visit it was downgraded but he, he might embarrass himself by basically eclipsing the Queen join inspecting the gods. Watch what happens when he standing there? The camera angles amazing when it gets here we go, there walking walking in front of you. Huge protests in Japan. Square. This mouse rally begin to arrive destination hand. I can't tell you. It's one of the biggest rallies, we've seen in years, and he was pretty rooted trees, my criticizing the way that she was handled Brexit much differently. I actually told to, to do it, but she didn't agree with. She didn't listen to base still wants to come back. How, how do you think that he thought the last one when I think what he mainly cares about is kind of being the center of attention. I think psychologically, Trump's always totally I grew up in your city. Right. So I grew up with Donald Trump and kind of background noise as this joke, is punch line. I think a lot of Donald Trump's life has been about wanting to be accepted, by the elites, you know, he was just kind of guy, unpolished kinda resented, the people who thought they were fancier than him. You know, that's why he's building gold buildings and Godley clubs, I think like the Queen of England and the British. Family. That's the ultimate acceptance right? Like if you can get accepted welcomes by the Queen, it doesn't get any bigger than that. That's the inner sanctum of the global elite even though there are a lot of risks in this for Trump. Right. That he'll say something stupid or that they'll be protests. I still think he's motivated by the sense of, like, you know, I, I wanna show everybody that here I am president states sitting next to the Queen of England royals asides. How else will an amnesty whole administration be saying this trip? What's the importance of it? Well, look, first of all, totally different than our trip, right? Because what we wanted is, we wanted to show, everybody back home, how much people in the United Kingdom liked Brock Obama. We wanted to get in front of many people as possible. Right. I have to imagine that they have the opposite goal like their goal is probably just get Trump right into the pomp and circumstance have limit any interaction. That he might have with anybody other than the world's, and maybe Theresa May. They're not thinking of him giving a speech. They're not thinking of him doing cultural thing, like, you know, touring, the globe, theatre like Obama did. They're not thinking about him playing ping pong with kids for sure. So all the stuff I talked about, they're looking to avoid that probably. They want the photo ops. I'm sure with the Queen they want to have the American people. See Trump in these conic settings, and then they probably want to minimize any interaction that he has with. With people were protesting people who disagree with them. Right. Say that do you think? Do you think there'd be anything in this day? That'd be like, okay, this is a really great opportunity for us to sit down, get some real issues on the table. Talk about where we're at if you think about the agenda, I'm sure the Brits are wondering what the hell we're doing on Ron, what Trump is doing on Iran. I'm sure they're a bit under Ved as everybody is by the China trade war. On, on Brexit. I'm sure some people treat Somme and others may want Trump to make some indication of an accelerated time line for some free trade agreement or something with the US. Trade deal with very, very big deal both. Great for both countries. I think Trump has given it he's in multiple trade wars at once how credible he can be offering that is difficult. So I they're not that many areas where there's a ton of common ground Trump will want to celebrate the work that's been done against ISIS or something. They'll try to find areas where they can praise each other, but there's a lot more differences than there are commonalities. Now, what once was special relationship. And obviously, Trump does have some support head, but that's going to be dwarfed by the lodge protests that planned for when he arrives next week. And it's not just the public he will against this trip. That's the leader of the opposition. Jeremy Corbyn who's declined an invitation to attend a state dinner with him and MP's have voiced their anger that Trump has been offered a state visit at all speaker when this country when it bully. Ways the front of accu-, we might remonstrate British way, but we certainly don't reward that bad behavior by Petit, and it's going to be prevented from speaking in parliament east surprised at this level of action. Do you think it even matters to Trump? I think it matters a lot because Americans don't care what most people think. Right. They actually care what the British people think. So in other words, if there were giant protest in ninety five percent of countries around the world. I don't think that would matter that much. But when there are giant protests in London, from a country that most American singer is our closest ally. I think that shapes the coverage back home and the coverage becomes about how Trump is widely disliked in the United Kingdom say, if he was going to get if he if he does get between t to speak, give speeches. And if you were going to write these for him. What would you write for Trump and for the state visit for Trump, particularly 'cause it'd be very different than what a wrote for a Bama. Top points. I think what he'll want to do is highlight that he's was Brexit before Brexit. Right. And so, you know, Brexit's terrific for the United Kingdom and it's, it's, it's UK. I America I is the same thing if he was smart, what he tried to do is show that he has this common worldview with the British. Right. So that he's at least connecting with some people in the UK. The friend of mine forest is Brenda mine. Two very good guys. Very interesting people, Nigel at a big victories victim thirty two percent of the vote starting from nothing and I think they're big powers over that they've done a good job. And some of his supporters back home Trump's can see that he's like, part of some right wing movement. That extends beyond the United States. Let's it matters, as well how Britain behave about coming visit to. But I suppose it matching it matters as well what Trump takes away from his time hair for for me. You know. It's tricky for her when you when he tells you something do you trust him? Of course. I listen to the American president tells me him. Well, yes, Trump is so popular that it would seem to me that it'd be better politics to be seen as disagreeing with Trump and stuff and standing up to him. But on the other hand, you've made your whole Brexit case on how the US is going to be there as kind of the new key partner. So it highlights to me that trap that the Brexit tears put themselves in right, because they, they sold this whole thing on the basis that, you know, we could go off and, and even get closer to the Americans and now the president nights is a lunatic. Right. So, so she kind of loses both ways. She's if she's fighting with Trump then undercuts that Brexit argument, if she's all cozied up to Trump. Well, he's incredibly unpopular guy. And thank you very much. Thanks very much could be with it. Coming up, why some Democrats publicly renewing coals for Trump to be impeached. Welcome back now early this week, but Mullah, the US special counsel who looked into Russian interference in the 2016 election spoke in public for the first time since he began his investigation two years ago. Guardian journalist and former deputy, head of news for God in US pol-, Erin reflects on what his statement, really meant, and what the Democrats should do about it. Good morning, everyone. And thank you for being here on Wednesday. We head a sentence on live TV that we might hair again. And again as the US election plays out over the next year and a half, if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime. We would have said, so if we had confidence that the president clearly did not commit the crime. We would have said that. If quiet significant moment to me. Well, Malloy is saying was essentially what he said in his report that they've been unable to come to a conclusion about whether Donald Trump obstructed Justice, but hearing him say it out loud himself live on TV it was suddenly much clearer what he seemed to be saying, really was that we would have prosecuted this guy. If we'd been allowed to, but a president be charged with a federal crime, while he's in office, the constitution requires a process other than the criminal Justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing, he said that was a way to deal with wrongdoing by sitting president not fell to congress. He didn't use the word but what he was. So about was impeachments immediately self new debates in Washington about whether or. Not the Democrats should push to impeach Trump. To impeach Trump. It would have to start in the house of representatives and the people he back impeachment. A big problem is that the democratic leader in the house, Nancy Pelosi is dead against it. She seems to think that it makes them look partisan that it looks like sour grapes, that it would shore up Trump's support base, and the overall Democrats should be concentrating on kind of bread and butter issues that she thinks will win the next election on the other side of the arguments, you've got most of the presidential candidates in the democratic primary, and the is it's Congress's Democrats can constitutional duty to hold Trump to account the something bigger ahead. If he is not impeached. You set a precedent that a president can behave this way, kind of struck Justice in the way that Trump has allegedly done, and that this is. Below the bar for impeachment and that obviously, has consequences for the next president, and the president after that, it feels to me like the political momentum is moving towards impeachments and the in the end Pelosi will have to buck down and agree to it. If they want to do it time is running out. There's about eighteen months left of Trump's first term with Bill Clinton when he was impeached, the whole process about a year so time's running out, and I think they'll come appoint where a number of Democrats start to realize it's now will never, and I think that will push them into the impeachment come to. Impeachments two stage process starts in the house. You have to get a majority. There probably won't be difficult. And the house is controlled by the Democrats at the moment, then it moves to the Senate, and they have a trial in the Senate, and two thirds of senators have to find the president guilty. The Senate controlled by the Republicans, and that's really an almost insurmountable hurdle, but the people who are making this argument about protecting Congress's constitutional duty are saying that's okay. And that the Republicans should be forced into a position where they put their support for Trump on the record where Trump comes to the Senate. He has a trial day in day out all this evidence, and then if Republicans want to say at the end of fine nothing to see here not guilty. That's on the record for all time. That's. On the personal record and for the Republican party as a whole. That's all for today. My thanks to Paul and to Ben Rhodes today's program was produced by Rachel Humphries and Joshua. Kelly sound design is by execute, and the executive producers on the co Jackson and film. I not. Have a great weekend. We'll be back on Monday.

Donald Trump President Obama president Trump London United Kingdom Buckingham Palace Ben Rhodes United States David Cameron America Normandy Brexit Libya Mr President UK Brexit Afghanistan Paris
History in Five Songs 66: Strictly Commercial

Pantheon

29:48 min | 3 months ago

History in Five Songs 66: Strictly Commercial

"Hi. This is tell your this Pantheon podcast. History in five songs. Song. With host Martin Popoff. Production. Pantheon podcasts. Let's rock out with Martin. Yes, indeed Martin popoff back again with another episode of history in five songs with Martin, popoff brought to you by the good people at Pantheon podcasts. We are pleased as always to be part of this Pantheon podcast network. We are available on spotify tunes and over forty other podcasts platforms. Alright. So this episode this is episode sixty six. We're going to call this strictly commercial, and that's in honor of a Frank Zappa album issued August, second of nineteen ninety-five called strictly commercial. And Frank is one of the ones who are going to be talking about here. So I've let the cat out of the bag. But so the idea here is these are bands. I've always talked about and got kind of really passionate about when talking about this weird way that I like these bands Basically, these are five examples of bands that I like their most commercial material, their most accessible material. Now, when I went to you the faithful listeners on the facebook page and and tried to explain this concept to. You I got basically everybody named every banned under the Sun You know some of the stuff to strike a little bit of a chord with me but not a lot and it kind of it kind of led the way of the hits people were talking about the hits or liking one or two songs by band. You know ostensibly it was the hit or whatever. But this is not really about hits. This is about. This is about just just straight accessibility, not the the Arcane or obscure material of these bands. These are bands that have quite a Quite a partition between the types of music they make they might have gone off on a on a on a really strange tangent. But you know strange versus not strange like I say you know some of these bands, some of their biggest hits are their most celebrated songs just like any bans we like are are not necessarily the most accessible or the shortest songs or anything like that. I mean they could be the massive epochs by bands you think of Rainbow with lighten the black and Stargazer, not not the most accessible rainbow songs but considered the Greatest Rainbow Song, right? So. It's that sort of idea. So, another way of looking at this is like. If you were if you were standing around with a beer in your hand, talking to some, you know deep musicologist music snob fans of these bands. You might be embarrassed to say what you like about these bands or the material that you like these bands because it would make you look like a poser or whatever, and that's a poser with the Er on the ender, an easy you are on the end whatever. but yeah. So so in a way, it might be these these. Yeah. I you know you're a little your little timid your little sheepish about saying you know what is your favorite material by these bands because it's not the cool answer is opposes another way of looking at it so okay. So let some, let's get started with the first example and we shall discuss This is genesis with keep it dark. Alright. So Genesis this disband I've had this long relationship with my whole life kind of thing and You know it's one of these bands that I call a retirement band and when I say that it's like or it's like a desert island band if you have one discography on a desert island and something to play it on you know what would it be genesis strikes me as one of these a little bit like Kansas. Even a little bit like Jethro Tull because I've had all these albums of my whole life and you know the main big albums, the big block of albums from the seventies or whatever I just never seem to completely master in my brain I. Never I never kind of get the songs in order or understand the more. No, you know when playing them, what's going to happen next? They just always feel like something a little bit new to me and and that's the problem. I have. With with early genesis. So basically, I picked this as an example because I love I love the duke album, which went platinum I love Abba cab. That's my favorite genesis album and one of my favorite albums of all time at went double platinum I like I like the genesis album with the little yellow blocks on the cover that went four times platinum You know I'm not picking the most strictly commercial stuff because I'm not picking you know the the last couple of. Albums with with the massive massive hits on it, illegal alien, and all that kind of stuff But I'm also not picking the early Genesis I mean, I've just never been a fan a deep fan who's gone in and played those you know dozens and dozens of times in my life over and over again you know lamb lies down on Broadway obviously is considered the second or third whatever greatest prog album of all time and I love it, and I'm a sucker for. Double albums but no give me Duke, Gimme, Abba cab give me genesis give me all these since coming in. Give me this this new awesome You Know Phil Collins Drums, sound one of my favorite drum sounds I'm not even missing that Peter Gabriel's not here. I mean I I love the Peter Gabriel catalog even more than the genesis catalog. Even this Middle Genesis Catalog that I love so much but I'm not missing. Peter Gabriel he's gone I don't care and this this all started with. Follow you follow me I think as If you follow, you follow me I it it kind of started with that on the and then there were three record that that kind of picked up the hook Innis wrote the remember. The memorably the memory of the songs but you know across the likes of Abba cab I had horrible album cover right? I mean this is when everything went kind of simple but you think of the song advocate cab no reply at all as great me and Sarah Jane Keep It dark the one I played is like very, very commercial. I love Dodo it's a little. You know we're getting a little more prog again man on the corners getting a little Phil Collins e I'm not a fan of Phil Collins Catalog. Solo catalog whodunnit but what a great great album So there you go. That's that's my first choice on if I was hanging around with some, you know. Felt felt felt patch on their on their Jacket genesis fans sitting around with our brandy sniffers and cigars in some some red leather chairs in in a private library discussing our favorite genesis stuff I'd be I'd be embarrassed to say that I've got Duke Abba. Cabin. Genesis. Absolutely. Imprinted on my brain start to finish and almost nothing else from this ban. All right. So number two choice. Take Listen, and we shall discuss this as Panthera with living through me hell's wrath. Sir. Audience. Valley. dragway. Why? Off. Okay. So I'm a massive. Fan I've always loved Tara I even like all those weird indie albums I did a three, eighty, four, eighty, five, metal magic I am the night brought projects in the jungle power metal whatever there even really good albums quite underrated But. A couple things I don't like about Pantelleria that are kind of sacrilege in the Perr community they're fast trashy stuff I don't think is very good from this band. They almost use it as links to go from one place to another or it's almost like they. They feel that and they know that it's kind of a ludicrous idea and you can't be too particularly creative when being super fast trashy. I you know I don't like Phil when he's thrashing out and and also I'm not a big Fan of dimes guitar soloing I really I really don't like that that crazy dissonant noise for noise sake thing that he does I don't like when he is really super obtuse and and non tuneful of riff either. So with Pandora again, strictly commercial I love the Groovy Pantera I love the money rift pantelleria would say you know we're a band of money riffs right I love when when you know someone says of a pen Tara Song that's Groovy one that's their aerosmith song or whatever. Right? I love the rebel meets rebel album. So this song is just like like a super groovy one like those last two albums, even the last three albums Have a lot of pretty thick opaque stuff that that just just doesn't get me. It sounds like they're being non-social. Or misanthropic for for the sake of it So I love when their melodic and groovy and there's there's a big group coming out of any and it's just really tuneful. So that's my favorite Pandera stuff I love you know mouth for wars amazing but I'm not a big cemetery gates guy, love, cowboys from. Hell. So here you go. So those are probably the two the two biggest songs Pantera ever did cowboys from Hell and mouth for. War obviously walk this love as well. But two are probably two of my favorite pen Tara songs. So here I am I'm not I'm not picking the deep tracks although I wanted to pick out a deep track to play you that I thought fit this concept of strictly commercial but Yeah. You know I'll cast a shadow goddamn electric whole whole a up while now that's Sabbath. Cover I'm I'm looking at the hits album here I'm. Kind of intrigued what they put on for hits but again, I'm not a big. I'm not a big slow. Do Me Penn Tara Fan either I like that paced stuff amid place groovy the Aerosmith Pantera. The strictly commercial. Alright. So let's take a break and we'll be right back. Okay moving on and even heavier band than Tara Tako listen to this. This is grateful dead with France. been. All right. So I just I just think France is probably one of the most exquisitely constructed songs of all time. It's it's an amazing amazing track one of my favorite songs of all time. But again, here's another band that I was sitting around with a bunch of dead heads in the mud and we're talking about our favorite grateful dead. I would I would be hard pressed to to name some magical moment on one of their live albums. I don't like the. Stuff. I don't like the Jammie stuff. The the super long ones on the studio albums I certainly don't like the covers I just figured there covers just the most un-imaginative picks obviously. Jerry. Does interesting things whipped covers and he such a musicologist and music snob himself. But what I love about this band so so much is the Donna Jean God show and Keith God show years I. Love Love Terrapin Station Shakedown. Street and you know another great album that is basically grateful dead album cats under the stars Jerry Garcia Band album from a seventy eight. Some great great. Donna. Stuff on there but You know I've just I've pulled out the stack of. CDs here from the the to grateful dead box sets you know wake of the flood couldn't name you a single anything on that You know interesting situation built to last in the dark I actually Kinda like these albums you know even go to heaven So there there's a, there's a different sort of commercial grateful dead that I'm I'm I'm sort of on board with, but I just missed on his voice I just I just love listening to her sing those ballots but blues for. Allah not forget it man Mars Hotel. The early stop here we got dead set and reckoning whatever but no. Absolutely my favorites are you know something like France I? You know I certainly didn't want to hear them good lovin but a shakedown street I love from the heart of me if I had the world to give these gorgeous gorgeous Donna ballads basically my favorite stuff that the that they ever did terrapin station you know for a long one I thought that was really Kinda, cool But there you go in and one other thing mention with grateful dead when people do have this massive debate about what is commercial grateful dead. You know the first thing everybody thinks about his working man's dead and American beauty June and November nineteen seventy. So these two great albums that are kind of like more blue, grassy, and country, and very accessible in their own right. You know there's there's a big debate in the dead community I mean, are you supposed? To like this stuff or not but I love that stuff as well. So here I am you know being on point with with loving only the strictly commercial grateful dead. So I like that kind of like the very last kind that they ever did but I love love love that middle stuff and forget forget any magic live jammie moments couldn't care last the live albums couldn't care less the early psych stuff oxo mocks or whatever couldn't care less Just. Just give me just give me Donna singing I mean I so weird and so rare for me to You know to to champion a female vocalist in a band You know that that was you know usually thought of as a bunch of guys but and and you know it's It's it's odd even thinking of her, you know in the In the sort of Manley, world of rock and roll of of being a key member of the band. But to me, she's almost the most important member of the grateful dead shocking. Can you believe it but that's but that's me and that's my odd embarrassing. Take on the grateful dead you know and and that brings up another term that people have talked about. Even you know when we went through this thing on the on the facebook page, it's like this. This does align to a little bit of only like the hits of the band, but it also aligns a little bit to the idea of what is your guilty pleasure right and people talk about guilty pleasures of a you know you normally the umbrella is bands that you that you think it's shocking that you should like that you like every dogs but ab right all the time, right? That's that's. Stuff that you know a black metal band would play on a tour bus or whatever. Right you know. Really to lighten up the mood and to get away from the stuff that they you know. They patronized that they do I mean it's not it's not odd that. That bans on tour buses would play a completely kind of different music. But but no this this idea of a guilty pleasure. So so this is a little bit this episodes a little bit about those guilty pleasures, but within the umbrella of one band Nino the stuff that you know normally. You you know. What? What the what the cool fans of the band would not like. All right. So let's move on. Let's give you another example here take a listen to this. This is King Crimson with heartbeat talk. Okay. So here's another band where I swear to God, you know I respect the hell out of all those seventies, albums, all those lineup changes just make me dizzy all those long songs the compilations. The different album covers the live material that jamming you know I just I get I get kinda confused by early King Crimson and I also get depressed by early King Crimson. I mean like I say I, respect it. When I play it, I'm actually pretty freaked out by how creepy and weird it is. A little bit like Van Graph Generator or Kraut rock or whatever but. So those albums are there and I like them and I you know I can't say I love any of them. But I'm a massive massive massive fan and I I, know I talked about this in the bands of individuals episode because this is this is a crazy crazy band of that way I'm a massive fan of the red, the blue and the yellow period. So we've got disciplined beat and three of the different perfect pair and heartbeat I wanted to play something really really commercial because again with King Crimson to me. Give me the three and four minute songs that get going. There's straightforward. Nautilus. Instrumental stuff in 'em. Give me. Adrian blue because he's one of my favorite guys in all of rock and roll ever on. To the end of time I love to here's voice I love to hear his lyrics I. Love to hear his Guitar Against Robert Trips Guitar. So you've got these two guitarists with different things going on you've got bill broussard in there being a very musical singable drummer. You've got Tony Levin in there with the Fretless Bass the stick Do. Do and cool things. So there's always a lot to listen to but. Absolutely absolutely give me the hits and one of the things just just drives me crazy about king crimson or I see them live when they come around and a but but you know through throwback and throwback attack in that it eventually got into this band that I basically describe as you know a car crash band basically everything sounds like a cars crashing in themselves or. Up crumpling up paper. Lot. Instrumental stuff three drummers lot annoys almost a form of heavy metal constructions definitely constructed sounding music long long versions of things long you know mostly no vocals You know obviously know Adrian blue he's gone So yeah, King Crimson you know you WanNa talk to me about being a King Crimson Fan I'm just going to say red blue yellow all day long I I've even thought of writing a book on just those three records I I, love them so much massive massive. I just played those things to death and I still play them all the time I i. just think they're great and even the last one, the yellow one you know ascent. It. Actually had the least amount of straight commercial accessible songs it. You know the deconstruction process had already started at that point, and then after that, it's just one of the most bewildering screwed up catalogs. You've ever seen it's a little bit like a, no means no catalogue but worse So there you go king crimson is my number four choice and we are now down to the last choice and as I've given it away early on by naming this this episode strictly commercial. My last choice is Frank Zappa take a listen to this. This is Charlie's enormous mouth from you are what you is. Song. The Okay. So Frank Zappa. Here. I'm a massive Zappa Fan again, a huge desert island banned You know one of those where you could just take that massive catalog, go to the desert island and you'd be entertained for a long long time but. Totally do not I find his sixty stuff just grading on the ears and ridiculous and Ludicrous I. Don't find the comedy. Funny at all the productions are bad I don't like this idea that he You know he's he's parodying or or basically celebrating parodying slash. The stuff he grew up with the sixty the early sixties in the fifties music I hate here in any of that stuff So so I really don't like. Any of that ZAPPA stuff leading up to about nineteen seventy-three where it starts to get a little bit commercial and then later on, you know I'm I'm not I'm not a fan of well even even marbled throughout I'm not a fan of the of the long instrumental passages in the fusion music And the and the soloing lots and lots of soloing, and then later on in life, I'm not a I'm not a fan that there are these shut up and play your guitar albums or the classical work So yes. So me and Frank Zappa basically again, give me the hits. Give me disco boy You know give me give me essentially Joe's garage one way over Joe's garage to except for watermelon in Easter Hay But but you know I I love the succinctness of that album and I think I think it just gets. It just unravels on two and three as it's called right But but no my favorite. Frank. ZAPPA albums of all time are what I picked this song off of and if you notice I mean I picked basically the first thirty seconds of the Song I noticed that a lot of these songs on this album. You know talk about commercial they get going immediately the verse starts and Frank Singing Away, I love Frank's voice right I wanna hear him saying I, love his lyrics, i. WanNa. Hear him I want to hear his views I want to hear him saying You know want here little a his guitar his guitar always struck me as a parody of Guitar Solo any Solos he's a little bit like when you hear Guitar Solo from a J masks from dinosaur junior, it's just so loudon and obnoxious and francs a little bit like that. It's almost like he's making fun of the idea of shredders. Steve Fire whatever who wasn't his band of course. But but no. So so with Frank basically I come on board superstrong with Joe's garage and shake your booty and I love you are what you is. Ventura's to me is a little bit patchy. I'm not a big. Fan What's the other one? Tinseltown rebellion up and down for me he's confuses me when he starts mixing in live material with studio material I don't know what's going on. I'm not deep enough fan to realize even when something might be an older song, because will actually put in little parts of stuff and then he's got that. While before we get there but so you are what you is is totally my favorite his because basically it's double album. If packed full of short songs, you know the comedy is there Gimme frank making comedy give me give me frank making cheap jokes and in fact, that's strictly commercial is I mean that CD it's it's literally it's called that to be provocative about being commercial in strictly commercial, but it's it's all a frank getting cheap laugh right now when I say I like I want strictly commercial from Frank Zappa it's not necessarily give me comedy It it's literally give me the short songs with vocals and lyrics and choruses. You. Know and production and a little bit of heaviness and a little bit a little bit of. Creativity you know I'm not I'm not crazy again because Lino later on through the catalog, he will always kind of celebrate that old sixties girl group or the Crooner's or the fifties music. There's a bit of that always along the way or the Blues I don't want to hear any of that I just WanNa. Hear a new puppy. Rockin Song, from frank that's that's what I like. So moving on from, you are what you is I was I was perfectly a fan of ship arriving too late to save a drowning witch and man from Utopia, but the songs on it. So so again, you know once it got too long and too weird and two instrumental, not a Fan Love that whole crazy messy ragged, Chad Wasserman drum sound too and another great one to go play by frank if you are in any sort of agreement with me, a lot of people forget about is Broadway. The hard way you know that that album I play all the time and and what it is, it's It's a little bit like Ted, nugent intensities in ten cities where it's where it's alive album of songs that are not on the studio. Albums I think all all completely I mean I don't know there might be there might be themes or pastiches or whatever. But but essentially pretty sure all of it or most of it is is stuff that is not on any studio album and it's it's comedic. It's fast. It's hard hitting. There's a lot of neat dialogue back and forth it's a little bit dated with all of it being about Michael Jackson and Ronald Reagan and Pat Robertson but. Other, other than that. It's actually pretty You know it's it's a really good accessible live album and and you know I am not a live album fan of Frank Zappa? That's for sure. So. Yeah I again, the here's another way being commercial give me the studio albums. That's what I want. I just I just want everything all laid out and planned when it comes to frank I, guess So there you go let's wrap it up there. Those are five different examples of that or have a similarity to them of just loving the commercial stuff If you like this show and want to support future episodes, please go to Kofi rhymes with no fee dot com. So it's a co- dash fi dot com slash Martin popoff hit the red support button by me a coffee or a pint. It's Kinda. Cool. You know there's just take me a lot of time to put together, but I'm roughly wobbly making an hourly wage. Because of your find support and on that front, I would like to thank this time Bruce Campbell is always always around Thank you very much. Bruce. You're you're you're my main regular contributor I I definitely appreciate the support as well Guston Garcia de paradees. Jeremy French Joe, Beck Kevin, Latham black sugar transmission, not sure who you are but thank you and Colston Veer. So yeah, very cool and I and I see you guys commenting all the time on the on the on the facebook page as well. Giving me suggestions. So yes, very helpful. Thanks again for that and Yeah Martin Popoff Dot Com for all your book needs right now, we've got the three maidens we've got coming coming in actually soon. Again, this is a little bit of News, But the merciful fate back in print I'm actually GONNA have tornado of souls the third of the thrash one back in print for the first time in years But yeah, I've got the priest in ufo's in the Sabbath S- and all that still got the bluish trickle visual. BIOGRAPHY, but there's paypal buttons I signed them all ship them out of the office again, Martin Popoff Dot, com that is it for now. Thanks again we shall talk to you again next. Find all of our shows note social links at www dot, penfield podcast, dot com, or wherever you listen to great podcasts. All songs who'd be found for purchase on Itunes spotify or reply please purchase. Great. Tracks. Find us on facebook at the RN. Are. We are on instagram at our our archaeology. tweeted at our and our our he'll.

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Deeper Digs in Rock: Marcus King

Rock N Roll Archaeology

48:33 min | 1 year ago

Deeper Digs in Rock: Marcus King

"Hi this is Glen Wexler in. You're listening to Pantheon podcast fan. podcast presents deeper digs and rock. Part of the RAF enroll archaeology project Music Culture Technology. And then well now on with the show you were simply the best better than all the rest better than anyone anyone I've ever met diggers. Why well because this is our one hundredth episode friends? So I gotTa start with Little Tina Turner and of course I. I couldn't have done it without all of you. So hey you're simply the best. It's just a you simple. No business today except to say fine. Everything at Pantheon podcasts. Dot Com Send tweets if you'd like post on facebook you can Message me directly My twitter account is at Swain underscore Christian so they have it. All right I let me say that when when I interviewed who Gary Right in October of Twenty Sixteen I had never interviewed anybody in my life. But I I thought I knew basically what to do research the hell out of the subject and try to ask good questions Sounds easy enough and I think I did pretty good For never having done it before. But I'll tell you I've learned a lot in the previous ninety nine episodes And it's just kinda built from there I I just think this is a privilege. It's been fantastic getting to speak to all these people and and presented to to you guys out there so I let me let me think all the guests I've had in the first ninety nine shows a starting with Gary Right and And then the the hill benders Guitarist Jimi Blue Author Chris Foreman Immigration Attorney. Leon Wilde's the cast of million dollar quartet of the late. Great Peggy Young My friend a journalist Jeff slate wavy gravy. A guitarist Laurence guber Professor Charles Hughes director actor Amir Bar Lev Basis Tony Levin beach boy archivists mark. Lynette and Alan Boyd Author Mike Marsh Director Rachel Klein or a Richard. LLOYD TELEVISION INVENTOR BOB Heil Author Bill Bentley Drummer Omar Hakeem Director Michelle Kath Sinclair player on the late great. How Blaine Author David Yaffe the people at NAMM author array of wars in the John Kosh Pr Man Tony Mic Ladies Photographer Mick Rock. BTO and and the guests whose Randy Bachman Twice a journalist and author Robert Hilburn Entrepreneur zappa journalist author. Joel Selvyn Holden Saxophone. Mindy Bear Airplane and Hot Tuna Guitarist Your macalpine Guitar Wayne Kramer Author Steven Hyden Judas. This priests Guitarist K K downing. Alice Cooper's bassist Dennis Dunaway My friends and fellow podcasters Sunny Puccini and Stephen Michael Guitarist tars Dave Davies of the Kinks Industry Guru. Bob Laugh sets author Adrian Heart Producer. Shelly Yakis producer John on Simon Author Saul austerlitz author Meredith oakes edge journey from the band of Heathens author. Mark Blake author Andrew Grant Jackson Drummer Hunt sales author and ex Apple Corps President. Ken Mansfield Chris. D. of the flesh eaters author and photographer Julian David Stone Music technologist and Drummer David Francioni author and New Pantheon host. Brian reason do Walkman man. Al Shara Godfather of Iraq Tyson meade author in winwood author Jesse Jarnail. The sweet has ever Maria Mulder Author J Marshall Craig Author Ryan Walsh Author. GDP pretorious author David Brown author and New Pantheon. Anthony Host Martin popoff author hip hop mogul Chris Schwartz Directors Molly Bernstein and Phil Dolan Songwriter. Chip Taylor producer. Mark Mark Howard author professor. Evelyn McDonnell Executive Danny Goldberg author. Christopher mckittrick author and drummer will birch engineer producer Toby B. Scott. CEO of the Neil Young Archives Phil Baker author Howard Soons podcast host. Jake Brennan Singer live. Warfield Field Pantheon podcast host tie. Listen author and publicist Dennis McNally too many of vocations to mention Michael Smith Author Holly George Warren Photographers. Bob Gruen author Taylor Marquette in singer Guitarist Alan Clark Author Sean Smith Smith Author Ryan Sheila and Josh Leg of Idioms Gold Room. Thank each and every one of you for coming on the show. I really really appreciate it. I had some great times I learnt so much You know and some of these folks have have actually become friends and cohorts It's it's been a great ride For the last Two Plus Years I. I wasn't sure I would even and get here as you can see from this list. I am all over the place musically Ma my interest in music is as wide and as deep as I can go for you diggers You know one week it's a pop rock The next week it some MM obscure strange Whole that hasn't been explored in in a in a long time You know I take my monty python seriously and now for something completely different right You know a wide lens approach to understanding the subject of rock and roll fully fully that. That's what this is about Along with my companion show rock and roll archaeology. Well you know when you think about it. actually all the shows on the network are a university level curriculum of knowledge Spend a few years with US diggers digesting all we have have to offer and earn a degree Hey we might might need to start a lecture circuit. Actually there's some some live of concepts In the works all right let me also thank all who have helped me get here within Pantheon. PODCAST you know I is Peter Farrelly my partner in crime. Who does most of the heavy lift booking the guests Jerry Danielson who does run the Engineering Department Christie Christie O'Donnell and Leslie Barker who have been doing the Engineering Richard Evans who oversees my writing Aaron Alden who helped books some of the guests of provide a space to record connections all kinds of things Also Daryl Albert the social media any manager who gets the word out to all of you and of course My Wife Amy Black Who has afforded me? The opportunity to this end is without doubt our biggest and number one cheerleader. All of you make the trains run on time. Well we made it two to one hundred well ninety nine this. This is one hundred Let's do it. Let's get to building uh The show to one thousand the region region gold the soul. Aw Rock N roll the IT Today. I have the chance to share another new kid entering the game. Well these Banat it for a few years now but he has a new album that is blowing up and we got the chance to speak to him about being called the savior of rock and roll. A Marcus King is just twenty. Three years. Old and was raised in South Carolina and coming from a family dedicated to the blues. Marcus took all of that and then built ultimate to create What I think is a new wrinkle? He takes a blues A little country western and blue eyed soul to get their He's a student. And that tells me we are just getting started with this kid. Expect a long career with this guy o n while he gets the Big Kudos on his guitar plane which is very much deserved it. His voice that strikes a chord with me Sure A vocalist too so keen into that but Es some serious chops going on in those pipes he can belt it out. Like a janitor. Otis and he can bring it Silky Gi smooth like and Al Green Eddie Kendricks He's a big draw in the jam band circuit and that's no surprise with his kick ass band but and Now he has a solo effort produced by Dan. Our back of the black keys and this sounds a bit different It's a little more subdued and the craftmanship it's been ship of the songwriting is really beginning to show There are some good cuts on this album. Obviously the well which we played at the top here is a kick ass us out the gate song with Say Will There as well wildflowers in wine is a is a personal favourite and his beautiful Stranger Ranger and break highlights that softer vocal testifying about One day she's here is a great groover while too much whiskey Reveals veal's Marcus's Long held country and Western roots I can imagine a show with Marcus. King is a barn burner and he has all the elements to tell a story throughout an entire show. Big openers kill on Guitar Hits the big notes brings it down on and You know fooling full on fireworks at the end a must see okay enough of me and my Shit Four are one hundred episode episode. I give you the rising star. Marcus wash it wasn't wrong. They were so A. I'm not only not candidates so much way. Didn't so gentlemen. Welcome to deeper prediction rock. Marcus King how you doing today and a great of course of course so i. I know this is a ridiculous question to start with but you you know. How does it feel to be the savior of rock and roll? I don't I don't know about that I do. I do like laying all well. May maybe you still Simpson and Chris Stapleton could be the you know the father son and Holy Ghost I'm I'm honored degree the Named along those guys. Yeah Yeah Yeah. You're you're very quickly making a name for yourself out there and we're excited about that You you play guitar in you. You come with a very interesting voice so we we Look forward to All that you have to offer and we'll get into that here as we go along so you know I usually ask about music in one's life but you come from a long line of musicians. Your father and grandfather grandfather were pretty well known blues guitarists so I kind of know the answer to that one but You know definitely you were born to it but but since blues news was the family tradition. You know what I want to know is what was the first record that you found all on your own away from the family tradition addition man. I'll never forget it found a copy of Robin Trawler Bridge of sighs. Oh Yeah Okay Yeah Yeah secondhand shop and I thought the awful interesting and it sure enough was so. Is the guitar plane that got to you. I yeah absolutely man I mean it was like I can't remember. It was bucket on something grandfather. Play on my dad. You know just like you mentioned as it was always around and my grandfather was really Big Into Chuck Berry and Chat Atkins that kind of stuff. Yeah original wrong enroll travis. Yeah Yeah and he played a lot of country Western music enough. Definitely listen to my dad. Is You know more on the allman brothers and Yeah it sounds like you got a a little bit of all of that in in that That Gumbo that you're cooking up. I mean I appreciate them and that's how we kind of look okay it every night. We like to look at him though. And we're just stirring the pot. Yeah I mean well. Isn't that how music and most art progresses is. You take the ingredients from the past sometimes a lot sometimes a little You Mix it together in a new way in that that kind of creates a new sound Yeah that's what we That's how we kind of feel you know we don't. We've never really been being able to categorize ourselves and know what their car so it was just kind of hoping that we keep doing our thing that somebody will come up with something. Catchy describe. I'll go working on that for you here but yeah yeah I mean there's you know there's elements of you know obviously Cata starts the blues and You know most of this music that we all love and listen to you know starts with the blues but yeah there are elements of R&B You know I hear Otis and Solomon Burke in in what you're doing there You mentioned the allman brothers And I think there's a bit of a connection there for you as well L. A. and You know so you have that southern rock thing going on but yeah there's some some elements of country western I think you're really interested in the storytelling Aspects of Country Western. That seems to come out in your Your songs as well I is that. Is that kind of your your Go-to when you when you sit down to write lyrics. I'm never sat down With a crooked teeth idea avoid. Kinda Song it's GonNa be you know kind of allow the song speak for itself And lyrically anyway. That's how I approach rotate. You know I just however that song needs to come out is how it's GonNa be but I along with a lot of storytelling. Just like you mentioned. Yeah but country and western aspect of it shines through a bit more. Yeah Yeah Yeah so so so you start off almost always with tune Probably plucking away on the Qatar and And then you let it breathe and then you kind of try to figure out. What's what's the Song Sandy? You and how the lyrics would fit into that. Is that about right. Yeah man from led to put you know it's a really always varies As as far as how on writing or what comes first. You know. Sometimes melody. Naked Stuck in my head sometimes lyrics just pop in and they just know that it down because it's such a fleeting moment. Always have no pat around or detoro around us. Yeah Yeah Yeah now you you started playing when you were a Like five or six is that right or maybe even younger than that. But I I think you you you start playing live and out in about about time. You're eight right that's right. Yeah so so this came naturally to you. It was always something that needed to do that. I was supposed to do never had any Any other this was this was planning a there is no plan. B Yes correct of course spoken like almost every the old school musicians. I talked to And ask the question you know. How did they make it or how do you make it it? It all comes down to well. There's just planning and there ain't no plan B. So it was the right right right right it. I find it interesting. You got signed to fantasy records You know we're we're out of San Francisco that's an that's an whole bay area company here Noted for giving S. creedence clearwater revival and quite a few others How's that been working for you And they're beautiful folks. I really respect the. We're fifty do enough and we love to work. They've done for me. Good good good not your first three albums. Soul insight Marcus. King Ban and Carolina Confessions are regarded as a band effort. But this new record el Dorados a solo album. Can you give us a sense of the difference and and why you felt the need to Kinda stretch out on your own approach is different. You know a lot of different reasons. But when our best and and he likes to have his band you know 'cause I think he's just just like me right. Hey tells more comfortable with his band and that's how I've always worked and and It was kind of an opportunity that could really pass up. You know you know. I really wanted to work together. And he has kind of A. I don't recall the scene. But he's got such a system in place. It's were able to cut eighteen songs three days. Yeah everybody gracious which yeah. Yeah it was start to finish. I mean mix and everything. That was more more than enough songs. It was pretty much. We'd leave every night in the songs. 'cause when we lay down they'd have the room dial in and the town's doubt Out and so perfectly that would sound like a finished product would listen back at the end of the night. Yeah Yeah Yeah and so it just like you you said moved along like a machine Really get an efficient system. Yeah Yeah you're talking about Dan Auerbach of the black keys famously. been producing a lot of great artists over the last few years. And you you kinda hooked up with him. I think he kind of reached out to. Oh you right. Yeah he called me a couple of years ago and then from that you know we just get friendship on jeopardy writing relationship disreputable. Yeah and and as you said you know Stepping away from the ban and he liked using some of the folks that That he was familiar with and some of these guys are old timers with some rather legendary. Resumes Yeah it's a it's it's astounding. You know the amount of Beker these guys have played on. You got gene crispin and Bobby Woods in the Memphis Blues always may playing on the dusty springfield son of a preacher man. Yeah play on Suspicious minds with Elvis Presley and a Quite a catalog behind them. Billy Sanford playing guitar and is most noted West was He wrote from Pretty Woman mm-hmm so he offered quite a bit of Rather than story. Yeah Yeah Yeah they were all like eight years old of the would go. SPRY couldn't keep up with them. You Know I. What are you twenty three now? Somehow I think when you're eighty eight you're going to be just like him. Yeah so what did you get working with Dan Auerbach that you might have been missing with the previous previous efforts. Well they is fine Attention to the production value of the record and And the way that we approached it Vocally was also lot differently. Not had in the past. I was always kind of accustomed to singing as loudly as possible because I always had a lot of things to combat. You know whether it be allowed bar it'd be an inadequate. PA system and allow banned. uh-huh these things I just felt like I needed to build their own over the top. Everything right I yeah. She wanted to be heard. So that's how my singing any style was formed in this time in the studio you know I was tired recording a song called break and I just kind of whispered it. Almost you know all set that And then that became kind of the how we wanted to do everything they just get a really subtle and So it really looked to songs. Democrats sincere as we hope they would. Yeah so so what this did was if I understand you right. Is it allowed you to breathe a little bit and get better connected to your voice. What was the software approach? Yeah Yeah you know it was meant to kind of invite people in you know 'cause I've always in she's always been more of Janice Joplin or Luther Vandross just You Know Big Bang as you can what we'll just like you know really didn't pay attention. You know this. This record is meant to be a little bit of a charming. I suppose and pull people in that way. The and the risk of sounding attack away. I just murdered software approach Well let's see it's got some up tempo songs on it still You know I I know you were You know your big hit and the jam band scene over the last few years and you know. Yeah that's You know you you know getting everybody to move their feet and there certainly some Some quieter moments On this On this album in fact I think A record is a lot of personal songs on it. Maybe more so than previous recordings right I had I had a great Opportunity to have these. These CO writers at our disposal man. They were helping me. Write this record and I was has basically bringing in song ideas Bringing in lyrics hadn't really felt concrete riding it and they didn't feel established the Comfortable enough as a writer to fully get these points across in the things. I'm trying to say and their health is. They're just really really just architects them and they really build a strong foundation of With the album won't become and helped me really say these things is though I we needed to be And and you and you really dove deep into your life in in the songs can can you give us an example example of one of the tunes in what the Genesis of the song Was I know you you you you talk a little bit about Mental Health on on some and and I am I am I right to that. I read that you you lost your. I love to a car accident to when you were a kid. Yes thirteen and Jesus thirteen as the first girl that I haven't really a careful Cisco my class would be your friends. She was really special person and she passed and then after that you know there was a multitude of other things that really reminded me how important music is and how important it is to repress those emotions particularly now in any out the way inconvenience us and you know in the years that followed. That was the kind of realizing that a music stood a chance. Chance to help other people. You know 'cause people like me I choose to create and and some people like to listen to music when they're going down I mean how I'm I'm glad. Yeah to use it in Albi get through things and it makes me feel like I'm doing something a lot. Larger than myself and music really the healing properties so Helped me in on this record. You know I try to be as sincere as possible. The only way I know how to create to the vulnerable and transparent. Well that's definitely coming across on the on the record and you can hear that And I don't think that's two different than some of the previous efforts out there all although maybe a little brasher and a little bolder you know. I think you're you're you're kind of an internal thought guy maybe maybe even a little a little introverted in this allows you to like explode outta yourself. Wouldn't you say I think it's a great way. Could it man you know I've always been pretty Myself and Introverted like you said that Throw Throw Gibson three thirty five in your hand and put you on stage Agen A wild man comes out. It's a it's a different different feeling much more comfortable there and anywhere world I I know what you mean. I know what you mean it for some reason it It allows us some form of freedom. It's kind of hard to explain to people you know but You know it at the same time it's it's creating this connection and And feedback with the audience. Both both on record certainly live right. Yeah you know that's all we can really help for us to to resonate with the audiences and before listening to what we have to say. And it's it's just a blessing to be able to do it. Yeah yeah so it does it. Does it feel different out on the road with this album. I I'm guessing the crowds odds are getting a little bigger and obviously the press is paying more attention feeling okay to you feeling great. You know I mean we're just I'm personally just really happy I I just gotTa stay true to myself and you know I feel like people are starting to pick up on it and I just feel so blessed to be able to in that and I'm just own I love you know and people are starting to pay attention and I feel really. Yeah it sounded like now you you you've been on a Lotta legendary stages stages in fact I think he just played the fillmore here a couple of days ago in San Francisco But I can bet the one that sticks out most to you is the grand old opry's at that about right and it was. That was an incredible I just My grandfather I said was a country and western performance and his goal was always to you know. Play the the Reimann right. Yeah Yeah and he was he never got to No I didn't I did I want him. Is he still around. He passed when I was about fourteen. Man That's too bad. I'm sure he would love to see that. Oh I thought that he was there with me. Yeah Yeah Yeah I'm down. I'm sure I'm sure so I mean you're you're grown so quickly. When when are you going to be headlining in Madison Square Garden? And well. I know we'll be there for the first time Later this year Chris Stapleton. That's right you're you're going on the road Chris Stapleton Right. Yeah so that'll be their first laying there but Headlining is it. Makes it is still still you get to get the staying in there That hollowed hall. That's that's pretty cool. That'll be fun for you. Guys doc about it is it just the two of you or is there anybody else on that bill. I want to say that yellow would be great. I three on their. Wow what what a show. What a show to figure out a way to get the New York City for that one? So Hey I wanna I wanNA talk a little bit about your equipment for our gear heads out there air so I I think you're using a gibson es three forty five into an English orange amp right. Yeah so the the Orange Answer I'm using is actually a design that was made here in America And it was designed down Atlanta. Today I kind kind of gave them some notes and said I want a little closer to tender circuitry 606 tubes in it and I just WanNa really simple to build you know volume and they traveled and they is today and it was. It's a great kind of head and I'm also running that Stereo offender super even. Oh you are with the offender super okay on the other side. So what do you to the to the orange IAMs. It's kind of unusual to see that these days Well I mean. We started touring overseas a lot. I was using some boutique. Can't I can't hear you know it was a small company and We always have to send it back in small town and it is really hard to. Yeah Yeah you know when we went overseas just always used orange is it'd been wanting to work with us for a while and I'm over there for a while. And I got used to them and uh now the the convenience factor of knowing if one gives Out Company or what else. Send US another one right right. Oh yeah so that makes it easy so it was. It was a practical will reason More so than a sonic reason although you worked with them to eventually to to have them build exactly what you wanted. Yeah and then they work really closely with me on that and Would really great deal out of. Yeah yeah yeah it creates a you. Oh you know along with that that semi auto hollow body creates a a great tone out there and I think you're Gibson is an es three forty five. And and I understand Dan that That's got a special story to it. Yeah it was my grandfather's and one amusing right now is replica gets and made Ed with me and They they really Jim. Weathered a Gibson before commits plant cease to be there and I left with Jim Jim weathering for a couple of weeks and he really Scott another guitar Orrin and made a really really Replica So so it's a replica of your grandfather's guitar But you think you did get your GRANDPA. It was lost in it in somebody. Got It back Foia What the stories there would in that so My grandfather's guitars always been in the family. It's it's never gone missing. It wasn't guitar that close to me as a kid and was given to someone else in the family and I just assumed that it was gone forever. You know I never thought I'd see it again and my father never realized I'm putting Megastar listening as it's just the first memory I have the instrument was this guitar and they they reclaimed it for me and the housewarming gifts and it was an episode. El Dorado and Being reconnected tall was partially what led me to naming a mile the out a lot of Dorado. Okay all right right now I was GONNA ask where. Where did the name come from? And now we know came from the guitar. Very cool very cool now. Now you know everybody talks talks about your guitar skills and to me. It's just got this great voice you know you can as you said especially in the earlier albums albums You know belt the shit out of it all a janitor Otis or somebody like that and now you've got the sweet falsetto you know I'd I see you. Were born with voice of fifty five year old black gentleman and seen far too much in Just needs to cry about it at the nearest crossroads. That's very very kind of you man. I I think a lot of the it's attributed to. When I was a kid I took a long time a long time but I I made a continued effort to listen to lead guitar players? What I saw happening from an early age was I saw a lot of lot of cats kind becoming just watered down versions of their favorite players? You know and things are starting to become diluted Ludi to my ears and I didn't want that for my plane so I decided I wanNA catch inspiration from other places so when I listened to like. Yeah this Joplin offline or James Brown Otis redding like you mentioned I listen to these cats Sam Cooke. Listen they're phrasing vocally In James dewar became a big part of that to the bass player and singer for our and listen to all these cats and and then when I started saying bringing you know that's kind of how I approached it because that's what I knew and that's where I On a lot of inspiration from Just phrasing Australia Qatar. And you know it kind of internally when I started saying it came out that way or of course if I could get. Yeah Yeah Yeah you know a very famous engineer. Shelly Akkas once said to me. Because if you want to know how to make it in this business gome find and out who your heroes. Heroes are marcus not only have you found out who your Heroes Heroes Arpad at your age. You're out who your heroes heroes. Heroes are a so. That's pretty important to all the way back is in your young enough that you know you can get on the Internet Internet and find all that stuff pretty easily and begin to connect the dots and and find out where the trail leads to the to the the next sky and the next guy and the guy after that And I'm sure you spend a lot of time a researching You know this this this Blues Guitar. Our craft that You know is now about one hundred years old. Yeah Man I made it. So how crazy is that. I mean a hundred years is not a very long time. You know it's really not and It's just it's incredible to price back from any edge way back to Sun House and all the cats are really laying down book away. It's just A. It's a blessing to have this technology as NPR's ars exposing every look back and see what was happening. Yeah Yeah it's it's it's great to see you know a young kid like you You know go to that well and and then find something new. Because that's the hard thing today You know sonically especially You you know we we we. We've been doing this rock and roll thing for sixty years now and You know You know at the beginning you know was easy to impress some somebody with You know like those four guys from Liverpool. The puts it Dr into a song. You know but You can't do that anymore it's It's Kinda hard and especially with you know acoustic or electrified. Acoustic instruments like electric guitar versus the computer. So I tip my hat to you to be able to find you know between Your Voice and your Qatar plane This kind of really interesting cool sound I mean you know when I started listening to you immediately started humming. I'm in your tune so you you must be doing something right. I'm there I appreciate that We we just like to play. That's good every day. All right so so okay you know. Where do you see yourself when you get to be the said fifty five year old Marcus King? I'm fully just relaxed and Still playing out. And maybe I'll still out there like like Buddy guy or hell even bb king. Who played until just a couple of weeks before he went went to the other side Yeah I mean that's that's the beauty of it. Man is a lot of this. Could be hard work but one aspect of it actual performance side of it is the part that you love and I guess the whole work ethic behind it right now is really really grinding. It out right now and we're on road over two hundred fifteen days a year and we do it because we get older. Wong's grey headed. We Wanna be able to tour as comfortable as possible. Yeah Yeah and You know Is is not ethical to play less than five or six days a week. You know 'cause you get this massive bust bus to pay for it. There's an extreme overhead but the idea is to record now and later you know we just have to worry about playing Ryan whether they just one show every now and then you fall just follow. What the rolling stones do They just announced announced their Their their latest American leg of their Of their to our shows are every four days. So that's what you have to look forward to when you get close the eighty it takes a couple of days in between to recharge that's prime example talking about right now now. We have the energy to do it. So we're going to keep doing it 'til you can't you do you. Do you do well. Marcus King Man. We wish you the utmost post Success and lots of respect or do you think so much for being with us on deeper Dixon. Rock debate sir. uh-huh aw it just the big big. Thanks Marcus a real pleasure having you on the show And to make it number one hundred Now you guys tell me. That kid doesn't have have an old soul he is something special diggers keep a close eye on him And if he is near your town Cassiem at least go out and get Eldorado the first solo album by Marcus King intercourse find all the markets king band tracks all available wherever wherever you get your Tunes Okay so Thought of the week is that maybe there is some life after all not not bad bad for episode one hundred You know see the WHO which we spoke to Now Marcus and up incoming rockers in a show that you'll you'll hear a few weeks from duo call bones. UK Aren't maybe giving me hope that Rock enroll just be making another comeback. Yeah it's coming back from dad like a fucking Zombie. Well will it be enough to make the billboard pop charts and become something we're talking about The casual listener. I don't know But it sure seems like something very cool is bubbling just beneath the surface. Just when you think Iraq is dead it seems to show at least a little live in actually actually has returned bigger than ever in the past. I I'd be really surprised if in the next few years we are talking about some new golden major rock and roll but I do think it may be more interesting today than it has been for for a long while and I think it all starts with the fact that we are living in an age where the live experience is something far more Then one finds on the record It is certainly here where rock doc can exceed some of its competition. If you WANNA see something that is ballsy big and authentic. I'm not sure other music forms can beat the the rock and roll experience sure pop princesses with their huge tours and dances and all that special effects or you know pretty spectacular but rather Solis Hip Hop is street level And full of authenticity in with the right The right performers But but you know one guy in a Mike with. Dj doesn't seem to work real well when you scale up to bigger arenas But getting three four five evermore highly trained musicians on stage working together is assigned to be seen and sound to be heard. It still rattles your bone punches. You in the got especially if the artists up there are authentic and really trying to do something different. You can't beat it It's still the most democratized retired music around. Anyone can do it with about three chords and you can go from there Marcus King has all of that in spades. Okay I'm happy one hundredth episode to be We will get back to regularly scheduled programing next week up. Please come back and help me Get to episode one thousand until then as always for one hundred. Now keep up the Rockin wildflower scratchy record. Yes Nancy All this well Our walk through Happy it deeper digs Enron produced. I denoted by Christian Swain. All sound design and incidental music by busy signals studios find all of our shows notes succe- social links at www dot townsville in podcast dot com. Or wherever you listen to great podcasts all songs have you found for purchase on Itunes spotify or replay please purchase. He's great important tracks. Find us on facebook at the our in our A._p.. We are on instagram. At our our archaeology at our and our our he'll.

Marcus King Marcus Dan Auerbach Otis redding Gary Right Chris Stapleton facebook producer US Mick Rock San Francisco Qatar director Glen Wexler Tina Turner Richard Evans Randy Bachman Toby B. Scott David Brown Chip Taylor
Zoom and MikMak

Zero to IPO

31:18 min | 10 months ago

Zoom and MikMak

"Hi everyone it's Josh Davis and I'm Fredrick harassed first of all we. We want to say that hope. Everyone is staying safe and healthy right now. These are certainly challenging dynamic times more than ever. I think human communication is important and just connecting with each other. And we're excited to be back you all. I'm actually speaking to you from the back seat of my car which is temporary recording studio in isolation and I'VE IN MY Home Office. So what are we doing here? Well we are back with season two zero just yet but we have decided to drop our first episode early because it features a very special guest who's played pretty. We run our day to day lives. Enterprise software isn't something that normally makes national news. But Eric you want in the company. He founded zoom have found themselves front and center this month as millions of people are trying to figure out how to work and live and keep in touch with people over the past few weeks as companies around the world have shut down their offices as a result of Kobe. Nineteen many have turned to teleconferencing to help keep operations going while maintaining employee safety and it seems like pretty much everyone. I know certainly everyone that I talked to is using zoom because zoom invitations all day long as a refresher were mixing up the format. This time and this episode with Eric is a great example of what's to come conversations which successful founders CEOS. Give great advice to new entrepreneurs who are starting companies and have found themselves at a strategic crossroads. So we want to share this episode early in the hopes that it offers a little hope and inspiration to our listeners. Or at the very least a distraction. So we hope you enjoy this conversation with Eric Yuan of zoom and Rachel tip a graph of mic-mac welcome back to season two of zeroed IPO. Today we have a very exciting couple of entrepreneurs on the show. Rachel typical graph the founder of Mick Massey founder and CEO who was called by Entrepreneur magazine one of the fifty most daring entrepreneurs and we also have eric yuan the founder and CEO of Zoom. Which as we all know has grown into a beam of video conferencing. Yeah I think what's very interesting? Here is both enterprise software entrepreneurs one who is earlier in her journey another one who is later on in his journey. He's gone public taking it public but still has a lot of memory about what it was like to be at her stage so. I think this is going to be very very interesting. Let's introduce our guests grey. Eric Yuan is the CEO and founder of Zoom and has grown zoom into a little bit of a big company. I think it's very small compared to what you're going to become. That's how he thinks about it right down. Eric started the company in two thousand eleven and appealed last year and at the IPO. The company had a market cap of a little over nine billion now less than a year later. It's at twenty one billion on the public markets. Tha that's more that's more more a little bit more. That's great that's growth node and never look at him. I never let's right notice. This market cap is not sustainable revenue. Would you talk about the revenue growth? Revenue growth is very impressive. It's about on the order of about one hundred percent year over year kind of up on a six hundred plus million dollar revenue year consensus estimates. We're not seeing anything out of the ordinary here. That is very impressive. And when you can see that kind of growth that kind of scale that's something. That's very exciting. Well before we go any further. I want to introduce Rachel. Tipo graph the CEO and founder of MIC MAC which is a fast growing startup. And there's a lot of things I want to ask you about and talk to You. About part of the purpose of this show is to hear from you about how you're growing the company. What your hopes and aspirations for at our and any kind of obstacles that you see ahead that perhaps not me but the other two leaders of public companies might be able to chime in with some experience. Let me ask you to describe MC MAC for our listeners and talk a little bit about what the company does share so mic. Mac were a marketing ECOMMERCE platform fortune. Five hundred brands license our software to better understand their consumers by connecting digital invest minced. Online retail insights. So essentially when I put a dollar into facebook what does that mean for my performance at Walmart for example so my clients span. Campbell's Hasbro Lego L'OREAL Nestle essentially. If you sell it Amazon Target Walmart you will become my client because you live in darkness with retail data. Let Me Brag a little bit about you. If I may at age twenty four you became the global director of digital and social media at gap which seems pretty young to have that role. I wasn't doing much of anything at twenty four. I think I was taken out the mail for running that role at gap at the time. But then you walked away from that to start this company out of your apartment. I believe in Brooklyn that must have been a difficult decision similarly Eric. You had a big role at Webex. You were leading the engineering team. You had hundreds of engineers. You said your wife. Hey I think I need to go start this company. And she didn't like the idea yes. She's sort of an online at likely. That idea by almost field to graduate was twenty. Four years ordered the three of us. Degenerates Rachel Rachel? With killing by the way the other thing that I love about what I've heard about your career is Gary Chuck who was an investor. My company and I believe invested in yours describes you as a fucking gangster quote unquote and lucky to have his support. Let's talk about MC MAC and the growth of online video and the commercialization of online video. Obviously Eric has a massive video business. What you're trying to do with mic-mac some people describe it as infomercials for the web. I've heard the term mini-martial Did you come up with that may I coined? Yeah and the idea is that it was very hard before mic-mac to see video and buy something you had to jump through hoops. And the bounce rate was like above ninety percent when you click through and now with mic-mac the bounce rate comes down to often like just ten percent right and a thesis of MIC. Mac was I was a gap. I was seeing the growth of video. I was seeing the change in the customer journey so gap Dot Com. The home page was the most traffic web page when I started when I left the product. Detail pages were seen five. X. Amount of traffic so all of a sudden all of these landing pages were actually becoming the heartbeat of conversion but no senior leader was paying attention to them and then finally the rise of Amazon so the early signs at the major retailers were about to become new wall gardens. And if you talk to major. Cpt brands they would be investing hundreds of millions of dollars whether is in digital video social paid search programmatic and having no idea what the outcome was on the other side. So in your case you have this insight and you know it's a good insight. I'm going to start a company but you leave a massive company and now you're this tiny little entity all by yourself and you have your your powers. You have the insight that the bravest lady in the Roman. You're like little little the honest truth. We said we tell the truth. And you have these massive companies that could easily swoop in and take your idea like talk to us about. How do you navigate that? And I want to hear also from Eric because he was in the same boat as you leaving Webex. Yeah it starts with an insight. That's not the hard part. The hard part is executed and initially. My competitor advantage right is speed to market. I'm nimble I can move faster fast. Forward all of a sudden I start proving myself and then other companies begin to pay attention. Because obviously if I'm successful must mean that there's a larger opportunity out there. How did that make you feel what was your reaction to the you know? The encroachment potential encroachment. My first reaction was. This is a good thing because you don't want to be a lone ranger business. It means you're you're not doing something to market if you're the only one marquette so I was excited I'm like yeah like competition bring it on but then when you look at the size of those companies so I currently thirty employees my competitors have upwards of five thousand employees. Then you start to get a little bit scared because they could put you know. Fifty salespeople against the southwest territory and then no one at Kirk Dr Pepper. We're GonNa talk to me and those are. The dynamics began to change for me last year. Which was a like. I got a suit up. Because there's people who can be louder and market right now. I still have the utmost confidence in my product. I have most confidence in my ability to lead but the reality is that they're bigger than me. Eric talked pretty shortly to catch up. Because speed everything up today have thirty. You may not know in five years. Probably have five thousand or six thousand you know more than your competitors as Eric how did you deal with it? At Zoom you would left a Webex Webex being part of CISCO MASSIVE COMPANY. You had that initial speed but then people could see what you were doing right and could and in fact have I believe. Come what nobody wanted to see. We always focus on speed. You know speed is everything for me to leave his Webex as well for the better. This made because before I left I was not happy. They're like today. I was so excited. I want to come to office BAGSTER everyday. I'd like to stay home. I do not want to go to office because every time I talk to the customer I see a single customer customers who are not happy. Why should I go to office so struggled for almost one year finally decided if I do not leave our employees who suffer? My family was software. So I got to leave us in this in this economy and now at Zoom. You talk about speed. As it might relate to Rachel's conundrum she has potentially large competition lar- large competitors who dominate a certain region could dominate the entire country. If they wanted to how do you is it just about speed does she. Just try to raise as much money as possible and hire as many people as possible. Like what's the what would your. What did you do in this situation? We started just myself for the first three months and You know I started end of June up to Tony Levin by early August I have run at twenty engineers join me and look at our competitors extreme crowded market. You know all the big legacy players. They have also saw enough employees. But we we know that a few folks on the costumer experience clearly intimate anesthetic cosmic pinpoint and also we want to be the first one to really care for a customer to come up with a solution. Can we can grow quickly. Year-over-year almost the daughter of the size. Now almost we have them on five hundred employees now right if it can daban maybe next two years. I Soon Bill Gate Right. I sing as speedily as everything. Do worry about a very big legacy players because they are very very slow because the everyday have new problems and a costume. They cannot leave with that you have to. I went to find a solution. Who can figure solution to Civil Qassams? Well is not about who the big legacy companies is bought this startup company? What about and I. I'm mizzou customer and and when we were going through conference software. It was just an obvious choice. We didn't even look round and but in terms of pricing zoom compared to like a C. companies. Where do you fall within pricing? Are you cheaper or more expensive much cheaper? You're much because our philosophy is always. We wanted to offer the best service. Also Louis surprise with the best the culture as well those things very important the product price. And you'll come too coach. If you folks on those three things I think be okay. Yeah our products. Today's better than any of our competitors price also much better lowest rice so I am the most expensive with the my competitive set because the positioning that I've taken the market is listen. Ecommerce is always on. You need someone hands on keyboard so one of the core differentiator for us is my customer success team it. Everyone has my background meaning. They're paid marketing. E COM specialists or train them to essentially execute my playbook my competitors came to market like a C- companies and their widget and they're going into these fortune five hundred companies. Sometimes they win the contract because they grossly underpriced me but a year later the client calls me up and says we can't even get in contact with them. We want to work with you. So I've sort of held my ground with premium pricing but it's it's challenging from a sales standpoint but I think also works. You know more like iphone strategy competitive other smart our strategy and Monica Restaurant Business. So I'm a huge fan of restaurant. I wanted to offer the best food. Veritatis food better than any other restaurant. When you try to pay the bill you will see. Wow is so good price. That's our philosophy. I think to be profitable auto profitable item nursing kate the case everybody is different because sometimes rude one folks on cruise because market sure is. Were important sometimes. You see you do not want to focus on grows. Bigger profitability sustainability is more important. I think that's new success formula for every company and ultimately. I think the question would come back to you. Rachel from my perspective is. I'm curious like what's your goal right. Because the entrepreneur you get to pick those goals you can say hey wanNA build a very large independent public software company I want to build a high growth company for a certain amount of time and then sell it to one of those people. In which case you're fundraise differently or even I wanNA build a lifestyle business. That's just going to cash flow and it's going to run it for the next twenty years. Those are all okay. There's no wrong answer. I think it's like what you WanNa do as an entrepreneur and then you that's your strategy than what are the tactics and financing is one of those around that now totally. I know that we have competency. That a Lotta people care about so in the history building mic Mac. I've had Corp de Teams Sniff around us like quarterly. And at this point I ignore pretty much. Everyone I'm like semi Turkey and listeners. A Corp Dev means one of the larger competitors the these corporate development emanate groups mergers and acquisitions who are interested in potentially buying mic Mac. Because like wow. This is a jewel. We can't re reproduces Joel. Can I buy this and bring this into my company which you know for? Most people is a pretty nice thing to have happened. So that's GonNa be the ideal had you gotta wonder why they would reach out. The other reason is that they're just fishing. Sure Right Competitive Council and they want you to disclose they WANNA do some due diligence and they learn all about your business and then they pull out at the right minute and so maybe it's The New Yorker in me and I'm a little bit cynical in that way but I always constantly feel like most people are just fishing. So that's why my reply is now just sent me a term sheet and because I can't go through that Rodeo again that being said and I'm transparent with my team and my investors like I believe that mic Mac will become acquired and that is my goal. And when it's the right time at the right price and and why do you say that as opposed to going to be a standalone company? I think the big guys are so big. So if you look at the adobe or Kohls the sales forces the world so there's for me. There's the traditional marketing cloud is then there's people who are more directly in my space. Ratan quotient some more in that shopper marketing space. And they're they're independent. Yeah but they're so big that the deploy that capital in swoop up by companies like mine and in theory right they also have distribution already to your customers so they have contracts whether or not those customers loved the product that is being offered as an alternative to yours by those big companies. That's a separate question. But at least they have those business relationships with all those big companies so in theory you could provide a lot of value by having make Maccabi Carlos and just using them as distribution channel very theory one hundred percent so I say those things and I only thought of my own is I only know how to be one way which is may so the way. I'm talking to you guys the way that I talked to anyone. And if you say the investor the go why why you'd think about your exit and I'm like wait a second. You're thinking about my exit like that's a meth that you're also doing and so. I tried to put all that aside and I wanted to hear from you. Eric like you took the IPO route. You've obviously also been a part of acquisitions. What's your advice to someone like me? That believes in the next five year time horizon that an exit opportunity should happen. What are the things that I need to do today to get myself there in five years? Singapore to The Freddie's porn. I totally agree. I think in commerce to studying a business. You gotta be very honest to you and also employs to accompany. Was your goal like you want to sell the company. Ideally you want to be cash flow positive profitable versus because otherwise you mean often a buyer in next year's what it can do to Sawai right that's to be profitable earlier excess. If you want B- long-term suspending accompany Ashley. You probably more help from the institutional. Vc's they're gonNA happy you because it's because you want to launch system accompany you really don't sound like a cash flow or profitability. You WanNA focus on the market share in the vision and also that disrupt our other big legs players like you probably need a more capital right. That's why probably legal along. When we started a business I was ordered for. Yes or as we're older you know based on this sitting standard. I drove myself. You know in the next twenty years. You know with comedy. Do I want who worked for. I do not want to sell the company and join other bigger company and another company. I think if I want to work for another twenty years I better go to a into independent. Pass a very personal yet. Does that put like a business division communism myself for sure. That's a personal decision. I I do not have any boy. I want to work for a company every morning. We cop very happy makes employees happy as well forever if a psalmody most employees to me that it worked for many more. They do not feel happy. Okay let's sell the company. I go back to retire but for now we enjoy that. Why our go on device to a long term sustainable company? So that's why you know over the years you know where wants to see by us is not about. Price is not about evolution. No we do not sell even now. It's still this personal decision. You can't see yourself when you look at the the world you don't see another company for now is not a personal dizzy anymore. This is already become a public company. This our shareholders You know decision are employed the for now. I go to the leader because otherwise just look at to my personal interests. I do not think that makes sense anymore. Well that might not be totally true. My guess is that since you are still major shareholder of your own company. You might have a say in how these things right. I mean you've furnace. Influence is all other shareholders. The wanted to sell the company. I was no. I don't want to Hoyle. Were regarded to communicate. Well because I want to proactively share them. Was Our company. Go today back to your point about go is very important at any given moment. You got it to be honest to yourself. Australia employee was a company goal. That's very important if you go better to communicate with them now. I agree with that in terms of employees transparency. Exactly you keep mentioning employee happiness. I'm curious how you measure that internally. To matter employee happiness is still do not figure out a way yet meaning systematically how to manage employee. Happiness is hard but once we are doing here is at least which we we. We have a employee right when we up in the morning. Do you feel happen out. If you happy please come to office. If you're not happy you can stay the whole my figure costs and is everyday you know. We talk about that a lot. So you're Freddie right in if you do not smile every dealer exist you feel like? Oh something wrong right. I think the goal is mixed employees. Happy but a how to marry that is really hard we do not know. Do you have any ideas Rachel? Well I'm I have a company offsite next week and so every quarter. I send out an employee engagement survey and so now I have eight quarters of the same level of data. It's hard for me to look at it. Because as the size of the employee pool increases data tends to go down and you mean the happiness go to the. The trend is results. My results indicate to me right now is looking at them last night. My employees are really proud to work at MC MAC and they're so behind the vision but they don't seem to be able to say that they can see themselves working there in two years time they also can't say they don't know what their career opportunities aren't mic Mac. So for me that indicates I need to sit down and communicate or plans and growth charts. Do you think there's any relationship between that sentiment? And your stated goal of selling the company that people think. Oh this is going to end at any moment so I expect to be here forever. I mean that could be an maybe another dynamic but you know. It's not something that I talk about an even when Corp deb teams are enquiring. We've weekly all hands off and let them know like X. Company acquired and nothing happened. You know like I don't want people to think that I'm having secret meetings behind the door. They also know that in the second half of this year I might go out and raise money and just because I think I have really strong underlying metrics and I also want to be on the offense so I'm sharing all this with them but when it comes to employee happiness and I studied this at gap because I was also helping gap Sunday Shin with marketing. It really comes down to the individual and it's hard as you grow and I'm curious to hear from you like how you can give the level of care to each individual employee so they feel security in their own role. Yes so but through the happening sexually Again we do not know how to measure employee happiness but we do know how to have. Employees was the formula to keep employees happy because our former is led to employ Singapore from others perspective. Riddick care about others if you sing about making others. Happy we sing. You'll be happy. I want to ask you a granular question to you Rachel. Which is you were saying that you send out an employee survey. Did you send out an email? Do you use a particular service. Like how do people do this? Oh man performance management hot topic right now. So I'm hiring for head of people anyone WHO's out there. But meanwhile we currently use lattice and listen like any software company. There are things that you're good at their things that you're not good at. I think we have challenges with it as we scale so I actually send out a survey via Google forms that I've made on my own. What kinds of questions you asking so like do you see yourself working at MC McIntyre's time and there's essentially a score zero two five five is like hell. Yeah absolutely zero. I'm out the door already. It's anonymous it's totally anonymous and another question is do you feel like there's Open and honest two way. Communication at MC MAC between employees and management. Another question is like do you think mic-mac Is in a position to succeed over the next two years against the competition. Stuff like that and then there's also a freeform box. What size did you start doing that? What number of employees literally like six employees? Because it wouldn't make sense of it was just you and one other person then you but I'm a really big believer and just like giving people the opportunity for anonymous feedback so Two weeks ago we had what I called a customer or kickoff so I I made my most senior higher to date. I call him a real fucking GROWNUP. Who's done really big things in the world? So he's now my bachelors. Thank you. He's not my chief customer officer and we kind of reward that department and immediately after I was like we gotta send out just an anonymous survey and let people give their feedback and it was really helpful like right after the meeting. Just gather people's thoughts in a way that they you know felt was open for. How do you do at Octa like for you? And you know and for Rachel and for Eric as the head of a company. How do you know how your employees are feeling we do these surveys to as early as as Rachel? You six people now. We probably should've negative. We didn't do that. I think we should have everyone listening. You have six people start doing it right away. How big or small where you when you did start doing anonymous. So today we have about twenty two hundred people so probably twenty one fifty. What does Eric Do you do this? What Rachel talking about the anonymous feedback. That Ju- we similar to Walker. Does we do have Once every two weeks we have all hands meeting and also we do alive employees. You know to sublimate in a questions in anonymously and also the when we before the odds meeting of executive staff gathered together. Look at all the questions you know some question. We will also live some question. We'd just ride Dong as Cinco. We have that I think we feel as a pretty open transparent feedback from any anything. Sometimes the questions avert tough I think for many of our listeners and even the people in this room the idea of being the head of a company that's only six people and deploying anonymous feedback is a powerful idea. I don't know that you either Eric. Or or Freddie did it and it sounds like if you think there's lock going on when you're a a startup found at least there was for me There's a lot of moving parts. There's a lot of things you're learning on the fly I think it's very hard to figure out here. All the different things I gotta do and I have six people. And I need to be focusing on culture when you're like who's paying the bills whereas the payroll. Hey have we change bank accounts? Oh we need to get the health insurance thing going. I gotTa Talk to some customers. Who's building the product? There's always going. You're like literally my morning right and then you let me hang on. The most important thing I should do right now is right a survey to send my six employees who are all sitting here within like twenty feet of me and ask them anonymously. How they're doing that you say now. In retrospect that that was a mistake of absolutely but it's totally understandable. How it's not the most obvious thing. Should I give Rachel full props for doing that? Well Hey Listen. Thanks to both of you for being here with us. Today I certainly learned a lot and And it was. It was very informative and insightful. From both of you that goes with prayer. Great thank you. Thank you eric very much for taking time. And thank you very much Rachel. We greatly appreciate anything we can do to help. Please don't hesitate last though so. We just listened to a lot of good information a lot of good advice a lot of good ideas but are there particular takeaways that you that you have Freddie. Yeah Josh I think there are three really big takeaways out of today's session certainly for myself. The first one is as an entrepreneur. You need to figure out who your target market is how you want to think about your product how you WanNa price it. How you WANNA position and how you WANNA package it when you're going up against very large competitors number one number two as an entrepreneur. You need to think about what you're trying to do what your goals are when you're building a company when you're raising capital when you're going to hire employees and you have to communicate whether you're trying to build a long-term independent public company whether you're trying to build a company for a few years that you'll sell to a larger acquire or if you're just trying to lead style business and then the third one really is about anonymous feedback the takeaway. There was certainly do a better job than I did. Start anonymous back early and do it often in the life of your company. We hope you enjoyed our sneak peek at the new season of zeroed. Ipo which will be coming out later. This spring I want to give a special. Thanks zooms Eric. Yuan and MC Max Rachel tip graph for coming on the show in the meantime keep an eye out for the rest of season two. And if you need a little extra immediate insight you might. WanNa check out octane. Twenty twenty which goes live online next week from April first to second. Yeah you can register for free at octane. Twenty dot com for octane. Twenty live and we're very excited to be able to bring the entire production to the masses. We have over ten thousand folks registered. Todd and I record our Kino's from our home talk about a bizarre experience. General Colin Powell any polar and other speakers all did their keynotes online. Too should be very interesting. And obviously none of this would be possible without technology from entrepreneurs like Eric his company. Zoom this absurd. Ipo I'm Fredrick harassed and I'm Joshua Davis and thanks again for joining us. Come back and listen to zeroed. Ipo next time.

Rachel Rachel Eric Webex MIC MAC Eric Yuan Freddie MC MAC Rachel Josh Davis founder and CEO Amazon Singapore founder CEO Mac Fredrick Entrepreneur magazine
History in Five Songs 78: Proggers Go Solo

Pantheon

37:31 min | 3 weeks ago

History in Five Songs 78: Proggers Go Solo

"You've heard the music now. Here's the story from director frank marshall. Hbo's new documentary the bg's how can you mend broken heart. Chronicles the highs and lows of brothers berry maurice and robin gibb and the evolution of the prolific career as the bg's through interviews and never before seen footage discover how they navigated the ever changing music industry and complex dynamics of family and fame. Watch it now on hbo and hbo. Max everyone just how woken filed. And you're listening to pantheon podcast. History in five songs with host martin popoff production. He of theon podcasts. Let's rock out with martin while hello once again. Welcome back for another episode of history and five songs with martin. Popoff brought to you by the good folks at pantheon podcasts. We are pleased as always be part of this. Vast and ever-growing pantheon podcast network Were available on spotify itunes over forty other podcasts platforms All right this is going to be a really fun episode for me. Because i literally out of all the episodes this episode seven eight. I swear to god. I'm looking at the songs this is. This is the greatest music. I've ever played On one of these episodes. I think these are some of my favorite songs of all time by anybody and You know. I wish i could play more of them. it's funny. I'm going through some of these while. I'll tell you when i when i get to the one but but i'm just trying to find my favorite part of them and i just keep your no. That's it no that's it. No that's it. I mean unbelievable. I this is one of those situations where you just want to play and play this music. Play all of it and just Proselytize about some of your favorite music. But i get to do that anyways. But it's mostly with words of course so all right episode seventy eight. We are calling this progress go solo. I was inspired by being on pizza. Parties sea of tranquility show recently where we just went through our top ten favourite prog albums of all time very surprising lists You know it's hard to do that. As as i said in that show. It's like okay you you you know me. I would probably have thirty or forty albums. that would be ten out of ten. So you know ostensibly. It's a tie right as i was making my list. I thought i was thinking a couple of things a. I'm seeing a lot of albums here by by our individual people as side projects or when they left that prog band Sort of situation. But then also i was looking at some of these records and saying i don't know if they're prog records proper so maybe i should stick a little more conservative and go go with bands and go with things that seemed like more prog records notwithstanding the weird happenstance and i got definitely got called on it but i as i sorted it all out in crimson beat was my favorite prog album of all time. Who knew anyway so it inspired me to to look at this idea And it's it's a little bit of a A narrative in here a concept in here That i always love this idea of these guys going solo kind of like to crash through the limb no veil of Complacency basically right. You know i. It's so so. I'm not talking here about robert rip exposure. I'm not talking here about another gorgeous album. Chris squire fish out of water. The steve howe album his second one What else would qualify. Some of the john anderson album so those kinds of things are not applying here because this is more a situation of of these guys needing to break out on their own having so much creativity in them. They're just bursting to let loose beyond. Even what is a very creative. I mean progressive. Rock is a very creative genre anyways. it's it's almost like the guiding principle of the thing and yet these are titans of rock You know found their way to needing needing to to go beyond and make some of the most beautiful music ever made. I think so. All of these have slightly different situations that we will explain as we go but definitely proud to play some of this stuff and and hopefully turn a few people onto this music all right. So let's Let's start with our first one and we shall discuss. This is roger waters with deja-vu Saw they all right. So i picked that very jarring explosion. Roger is a very political guy. You know i keep. I keep forgetting or i know and then i forget and then i check it out or i don't understand but roger waters is somewhat reviled out there for his politics and i can't even remember what his politics are exactly but you know this. 2017 album is this. The life we really want is quite a political album But and and this song is about a war in the middle east but No he's he's just an absolute rock god to me. I mean there's so many great things about him that i almost don't even want to know what these bad things are about him that That people talk about But this record from twenty seventeen is probably going to stand is my favorite record of the last ten or fifteen years. I've played it. I don't know it's almost too new to yet that i'd be exaggerating to say. I played it hundreds of times. But i've probably played it hundred twenty times one hundred and forty times Love it start to finish Just love his voice. And and you know this this reverie on on you know being at the end of his life and looking back on the world and his own personal life You know with with so much passion But it's but it's quite mellow music. There's some there's some things on here that are little rocky But it's just a gorgeous well-paced album of of different things and even some recurring themes coming back to certain things. Love is voice. love his quiet singing voice. Love his loud. You know loud singing voice which you heard a little bit of here you know that that sort of anxious paranoid scream that you heard and pink floyd at times you know. There's a gorgeous part in here where where he clears his throat and it just fit so perfect in what he's doing this kind of like little campfire acoustic sort of song thing But just love this album death and and the thing why roger waters fits in here is is. I just feel that this is a guy you know. Pink floyd was definitely a power struggle. And you know maybe a tyrant or whatever but here is a guy that that you know slowly took over pink floyd to the point where You know it was. It was a definite huge power struggle in the end and the album. Scott you know quote unquote more roger waters as they went went along more last right until the final cut where you know. People almost talk about it in loose terms as being a roger waters solo album but the wall even had that sort of happening like. He's really taking over the reins in the wall. But i love radio. Chaos and amused to death in the pros and cons of hitchhiking especially amused to death. you know i. I don't really care to look into any of that other stuff. The opera classical type stuff but Yeah this record with this terrible terrible title and not a great album covers. This life we really want is just start to finish. Just a masterpiece of Of again a guy looking back You know and and and with with a lot of sort of despair and sorrow at the state of the world and You know adding up the pros and cons of how his own life has went sort of thing. Just beautiful beautiful record you know. I'm surprised people didn't really talk about it a lot. More than they did So there you go. Roger waters one of these progress gone solo and wisey going solo again. I think he's just got he's just got so much of his own personality and intellect that he needs to pour into music that you know being part of anything that wasn't called roger waters Was was getting to hold them. Back had shackles on all right next one Take this this. Is steve hackett with till these is toys of town. One night in well to All right i thought this was a kind of a neat theme following on from the roger waters because this song co written with With his wife. Jo stephen jones is lovely people but You know this. This song in itself is a short gorgeous gorgeous reverie again on the idea of you know one of these old prague guys later on in life and and it's a very delicate look at it but but it's it's like you know okay. Are you ready to die. When i you know win your eyes have seen enough kind of thing. That's what the song is about. And so steve hackett really fits in here again as just a super high reputation well-regarded guy who you know as as genesis at the height of maybe them then possibly breaking or whatever. I mean we can talk about whether you know they were you know he's leaving this great situation or whatever. I'm sure it didn't look so great at the time but The the neat thing about this guy is that is that he's leaving genesis two to break out on his own and he's made so many albums and so many amazing amazing albums in a lot of different styles he's done blues and classical and And lots of live albums. He's revisited genesis you know so very a lot. So it's not like he's he's got ill will to that material but he's gone and done that but he's gone and done so much more on his own. I i really loved for some reason. I was a big fan of the cured album from nineteen eighty-one which is which is very Kind of synthesizer pop. It's kind of an odd thing from him but my favorite by far is is what what is it was the exact title again. I can remember these titles on to watch the storms That's why i can't remember it. But i love love strutton. Ground on their circus of becoming He he covers a at thomas. Dolby right The devil is an englishman But really really neat stuff on here and and this one That i just played. You is from beyond the shrouded horizon. Which is a double album double studio album and Yes steve hackett. So seen 'em live a couple of times and you know the fans are just lapping. It up they're just loving the whole thing Both times i saw kind of a cushy smaller theatre environment Kind of like a community theater environment. It's it's interesting not not exactly a rock a rock and roll venue. One thing about steve. Hackett that i'm not a fan of Is it's funny. i'm not. I'm not a super huge fan of his loud hard rock heavy metal squalid noisy guitar guys playing right. So so he's it's it's again. This is the other reason. I picked him as a theme on from roger waters. I always kind of joke and complain that you can't set your eye. You can't get your volume levels To a roger waters album because It's going to be absolutely close to inaudible where there's just just some ruminating going on. And then there's gonna be some big explosion Literally an explosion Or and and and loud music. So it's got so much dynamics between the quiet bits and the loud bits that that is hard to even set your stereo and and your jolted awake all the time And that's that's how. I feel a little bit about steve's catalog he's got he's got this sort of Almost like You know king crimson. Ask noise factor to him and then he's got the most gorgeous acoustic songs spanish guitar with that with that gorgeous voice of his over top of it so i guess what i'm trying to say and this i found one. I did peace episode as well. I like i like a lot of the more commercial things that you get out of a lot of these prog bands. That's why king crimson beats my favorite one of those. But but so with steve hackett. It definitely is some of my favorite songs ever done in the history of mankind are a lot of steve packets quieter songs with vocals. So and there's lots of that across the albums but the albums can be very jarring between between big rocky jazzy. Prog bits With his sort of howling tone remember he was one of the He was one of the early originators tapping but he also has kind of a howling feedback thing that he does too but yeah just just one of the great unsung acoustic guitar players of all time. All right let's take a short break. We'll be right back. Okay back again here on history and five songs with martin popoff episodes seventy eight progress. Gone solo This is one of my favorite example of this whole thing. But it's more like this is one of my favorite rock gods of all time but he actually doesn't fit into this theme perfectly in all explained. Let's take a listen. I this is. Adrian blue with nineteen sixty seven dental. What all right i I essentially think that's the greatest song of all time Written by anybody ever this is one of these where playing you a segment from. Four minutes and twenty seconds in thirty seconds of that. I think the song is a total of five minutes thirty seconds. I swear to god this is. This is a prog rock concept album masterpiece in five minutes If you like the beatles there are probably about fifteen beatle esque. Things he does in this song And all of them. I love a thousand times more than the beatles so fifteen times a thousand. So i so. I like this song. Fifteen thousand times more than the entire beatles catalogue Love adrian blue. He's he's probably my favorite creative music maker of all time I loved what he did. in king crimson. I mean those three albums the red the blue yellow are three of my favorite albums of all time and i could easily see. This is where i almost i. You know joking. With pete at the end of our thing you know. I said Do i have permission are woulda i of had permission to include twang bar king and lone rhino In this list because those are those are probably two of my fifteen favourite albums of all time by anybody So i just love his sense of humor. I love his voice his various voices. I love his sense of humor on the guitar. The noisy nece that he can do on guitar. But i love the mellow things he can do on guitar. I just love his whole idea of of how to put together songs. So so these albums. So how how. Adrian doesn't fit. The theme is that he still dove tailing kind of in and out of king crimson. All his life kind of thing right but he's got a ton of solo albums and and the first two are amazing This album mr music had the nineteen sixty seven is from is not one of my favorite adrian blue albums and certainly not one of my favorite albums of all time. Although like i say it has the greatest song ever written in the history of recorded music and unrecorded music You don't including all the classics in renaissance and everybody So throughout all of the history of mankind this is the greatest song of all time so including recorded music and non-record music and So adrian you know he comes to this from so many provocative creative experiences talking heads zappa king crimson. David bowie But his. His own albums are so so absolutely you know like i say the first two level love him a lot the other ones. There's a lot of experimenting and weird stuff going on this side one side three or whatever. It's called stuff you know. There's there's a lot of instrumentalists well he. It's it's almost like he gets a little bit infected by the you know the thing that happens to king crimson later on but i have mention the other reason i just. I just love the catalog of adrian. Blue so much is his band. The bears from back home in cleveland. I believe is right Anyways the guys. He was in a band within They've got the second album called rise and shine absolutely one of my favorite albums of all time as well and even later with car caught fire and all that and even the first one which is just called the bears. It's got that you know. I think it's more drucker. The the guy from mad magazine drew the illustrated. This cartoony picture of the band on the cover. So that's that's Almost a more conservative pop rock situation little bit new wave but more like just uptempo pop rock maybe a little bit like the knack i suppose but with way more brains and just just the geez heartbreakingly gorgeous lyrics and great singing and stuff like that. So we've got rise and shine twang bar king lone rhino. The bears throw that one in their discipline. Beat three of a perfect pair So yeah one of my favorite makers of music of all time. I've seen them live to in a solo situation. I'm not sure i've him with king crimson. Yeah i think. I have actually but you know just so much fun and a solo situation because again he's got that thing he does with technology and he's and he's doing all these cool looping things with himself Very very entertaining. And then and eric slick or were in his band this one time. I saw them. Unbelievable i think tony. Eleven was in his band. Once that i i believe that i saw him with once. Maybe not maybe that was. That was tony levin at the same venue that i saw him with julian eric but Yeah incredible live incredible on record enough about adrian. Blue right All right so let's move on This is our fourth selection on progress. go solo Take a listen to this. Chroma key with graveyard mountain home basement. Isolated earns tables kitchen. Sort Okay so this is a truly one of these situations where i just feel like You know the the point of this episode is is People who are just so creative have so much you know frighteningly interesting creativity in them that they have to leave their situation. This is kevin moore the keyboardist for dream theater. Leaving dream theater and striking out on his own. And i think this is the perfect example of you know a promising band But you know dream. Theater's always kind of bothered me as a band. That kind of gave you what you wanted. Know if if you like. Hey man. I wish rushworth heavier bandmann so okay. Here's dream theater right Progressive all the time perfect productions long long records Heavy all the time Just just no no No eccentricity to it in a way it's just literally If you were to vie to devise the perfect progressive rock robot. It would be dream theater. i hate saying that. You know. I've tried so many times over the years to get into a interviewed. The guys many times over the years But it just never sinks in right but this is this is kevin moore going off so okay so he does a couple of chroma key albums and they're more like they're more like the The second coming of brian eno from here come the warm jets and another green world and taking tiger mountain there. The gorgeous gorgeous Records of Kind of like electronic. Percussion and an innovative keyboard sounds But then he does this one graveyard mountain home. And i swear to god i. This is one That is old enough. That two thousand four. That i have played probably over two hundred times And the the amazing thing about this record is that you know the the cool thing about kevin number one is he moved to. What was it. Santa fe new mexico los angeles when he's doing this album. I think he's living in istanbul turkey. He's lived in montreal So he's even he's he's even building a life of a creative person but but yeah. His music is is incredibly incredibly creative. He's like he's like a musical genius. I think so what he did with this album. He went and searched for a. He found a high school guidance. Film i think from the nineteen fifties. It was about twenty five minutes long. And it's this kind of really sad story about this high school guy whose mother dies and he thinks he hears her voice on the radio. All this is just a heartbreaking story and then he takes that twenty five minute film and he cuts it down to half speed. So it's now fifty three minutes long and he he writes a soundtrack album to it. And it's it's an unbelievably affecting album. It's it's quite creepy and sad and gorgeous produced like it like you know the the the amount of textures and tones an interesting stuff on here. i've heard it said that you know that will absolutely affect almost anybody. Who's into music if you if you play with with that you know watching it at the same time but but it comes with a second disc that is just the music and i think it's just as great i mean i think it's amazing And the cool thing about it and this is the other reason i wanted to have kevin follow. Roger waters is that there's a lot of spoken word and weird buried kind of laughing and sound effects and film reels coming off the real and and it's like either crying or laughing and people talking and You know call to Call to prayer. That you know the big the big horn thing going off So lots and lots of weird effects and then acoustic guitar and long musical passages. So it's it's doing that thing. That always thought the main reason. Pink floyd got famous is spoken-word bits. It always makes you sound really cryptic and wise and it's really cool and people always remember those parts. I swear to god. I mean i think the things people remember the most about pink floyd. The highlights of those records are when there are little spoken word. Bits everybody remembers those. So i thought that was just a genius thing that they came up with to do that on records and that that is the kind of record this chroma key graveyard mountain home. What title is it really reminds me of roger waters album. That's that's basically. The bottom line reminds me of amused to death or or when pink. Floyd is really doing a lot of that on final cutter on the wall or whatever But it's so so creative as just a masterpiece album and again this absolutely fits our theme because this is a guy Who's just fearlessly going out on the frontier and creating new kinds of Of sound collages. you know in in the absolute spirit of progressive which you know he. He politely as he's leaving. Dream theater says an enough of that cheesy progressive rock by numbers stuff for me. Thank you Honestly i that's that's kind of the theme of this episode that these guys see see i. I bring that up and it reminds me of. I can almost do a whole episode on metal guys who have done stuff like this and that that would you know. The the big examples are rob alfred and bruce dickinson And they're kind of leaving situations where they're going. This stuff that my band is doing is really cheesy and stale. That's that's what they're thinking like. I'm growing as a human being. these other. four guys are not growing as human beings. Obviously i gotta go try something new. And it's so so commendable when they do that and the results are usually pretty darn good. I think But in prague the difference is you're leaving a genre where creativity is like literally the main thing so so you're already in a very creative situation and you're getting more creative i think. Okay so our last one Let's take a listen to this and we shall discuss this peter. Gabriel with no self control. Talk all right. So i picked him as the ultimate example. Because i think he's the success story in doing this. It is a clean break so it's a little bit different from the asian blue situation so he's massively commercially successful with multi platinum albums huge huge. Tours he's leaving. He's leaving a promising situation. He's making a clean break and he's making music. That is very very fearlessly. Creative again like a kevin. More steve hackett is not is not really making crazy crazy music or nor is roger waters and you know in a lot of cases while no adrian. Blue is so awesome. That i i can't i can't put him down in that respect but kevin more so far and peter. Gabriel are definitely to hear that went the furthest out on a limb now. Peter gabriel on on car and scratch. You know those self titled albums that's kind of a cool thing to. He didn't name any of those albums. Right we had to name them for him just to be able to talk about them. He's got the scratching. He's got the car screen with the rain on it Or the or the side window. I think it is and then. He's got knelt face melting. Cover so so. This is from the third album. The melt album which i always You know aligned with When kate bush did the dreaming the very creative album this is. This is the big step up and creativity. Because when peter gabriel i i left the fold His his albums were kinda rocky. Kind of poppy. Kind of a ballot. Here and there And beautiful beautiful albums in great songs But they weren't particularly really really super creative. You had here comes the flood and stuff like that but But on this one obviously with biko and games without frontiers in those female vocals and the gated. Drums you've got jerry marotta on here you've got to phil collins on here. So you got all sorts of production pioneering going on games without frontiers. It was a hit immediately because people were just going. What the hell is that. It just had to be played on the radio is just. It's like bohemian. Rhapsody all over again but for different reasons like this is so unique and interesting it just had to be a hit and it was a hit So games without frontiers biko. You know you you think of you know with with the The south african politics and what he was doing here. He's kind of like peter. Gabriel is almost out on his own are creating a world music boom and then he and then he does his whole label and he. He has different world. Music artists With him but then after this he also he also does the security album which is even more kind of world music and more atmospheric so incredible incredible catalogue of great music And again so. Here's a guy leaving the fold. Basically saying i've got so much more in me and so further to go then. I think genesis really wants to go. He was proven wrong in that. Because genesis got really creative and off and did a lot. Lotta cool things themselves. you know. Granted people put it down for being daring but almost daring in a pop sense and so it had it. It was a mix of conservative and Novel in it certainly was moving rapidly beyond genesis That that's something that we could regard them well for i suppose But no peter gabriel. Yeah i mean you look at you. Look at security album and this album They are so interesting and creative and truly in the spirit of prague. I saw i saw the band. One of the greatest shows i ever saw was the first show ever at vancouver. What do they call. Bc play stadium. You know with the with the whole You know kind of see-through dome on top of it. This was the first concert there ever and it was Or for big concert. Whatever the tubes on an album. I loved inside outside peter. Gabriel as the sandwich band if you can believe it on security. So he's at the height of his power and then the headliner was david bowie at the height of his commercial buzz that he he would ever have the. Let's dance album and You know and oddly. I noticed that There's some some later addition of of that or some live album or something out there that that album has been commemorated on a on a proper or that show has been commemorated on a proper cd which is kinda cool. It's it's neat to see that happen. Because i was at that show. But yeah and and what a transcendent experience seeing you know that banned on On the security album So there you go Those are those are five examples of absolute creative titans a going solo from prague situations Progress go solo. You know. And so like i was saying this is not a place to talk about steve. How solo albums or robert trips excellent exposure album or chris squires fish out of water album Because these are leaving the fold. Because you just have so much in you that you that you need to do your on a mission to create And aren't exactly leaving the fold Situations You honorable mentions here. Steven wilson leaving porcupine tree. Mike portnoy also leaving dream theater. Bill bradford in a sense. You know leaving yes to king crimson. That's kind of a big step up. In creativity. I think as well in in bravery daring nece and then he did a lot of solo. Album stuff You know and then went into king crimson. So this is a guy almost jumping from banned banned but but he's moving into more fearlessly creative situations the whole time so it's a little different as well all right. If you dug this show. I certainly doug doing this. Show want to support future episodes go to kofi rhymes with no fee Kofi dot com slash martin. Popoff hit that red support button by me. A coffee or a pint Either i drink a lot of both of those and on that front. I do want to thank This time out. bruce campbell. Dave fisher jeremy french. Christopher clement dan keyes wetter Kevin latham jason leonard at gusting garcia de paradees Also my moderator. What do you call those things. Moderators on the on the on the page on our facebook page which is a pretty hopping page we We have a lot of debatable. These episodes so thank you augusta. N- scott. Ray brian sager jared shelton andrew smith and roberto vega and you could go to martin popoff dot com for all your book needs. Basically there are paypal buttons for everything that is in print. I'm sending out a lot of the angel book almost out of that now I still have the thin lizzy visual biography. I've still got the maiden. This is a rare situation where all three of them maidens are available. I have the first priests not the second prese running out a few other things. But anyways martin popoff dot com. Thank you very much for listening. Go play some of this stuff man. If you had not heard that chroma key album go play that. Chroma key album and go play adrian. Blue nineteen sixty seven. Just go to the song. Forget everything else. I've told you buddy drew just go play nine hundred sixty seven. Thank you bye find. All of our shows notes social links at w. w. w. dot banfield villain podcasts dot com. Or wherever you listen to great podcasts. All songs have you found for purchase on itunes spotify or google play pleased purchase. He's great and important trucks on facebook at the rn are. We are on instagram. At our archaeology at all and he'll january one thousand nine hundred ninety eight a nineteen year old singer. Songwriter has released her debut. Single those nuts you just heard were the first notes of music that the world ever heard from a young british woman and with that debut song she influenced a whole new generation of female singers and showed what women in music could really do. I'm cecil your host of the podcast. Strange phenomena. The music of kate bush in this podcast. I'm discussing the history story of every song they keep. 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roger waters steve hackett martin popoff Popoff berry maurice robert rip hbo adrian Jo stephen jones strutton martin steve robin gibb frank marshall roger Roger Chris squire Adrian blue beatle esque steve howe
History in Five Songs 47: Bands of Individuals

Rock N Roll Archaeology

34:02 min | 8 months ago

History in Five Songs 47: Bands of Individuals

"Hi This is Ellen. Talk at the holy. And you're listening to pence import cast history in five song with host Martin. Popoff production. Pantheon podcasts Let's rock out with Martin. Yes indeed welcome back again to another episode of history of five songs with Martin popoff brought to you by the good folks at Pantheon. Podcast pleased as always to be part of the Pantheon. Podcast network where available on spotify. I tunes pod Bay and over forty other podcasts platforms all right so this is episode forty seven. We are going to be calling this bands of individuals. I couldn't think of a snappier title. But this basically explains this concept and it's actually a pretty elevated concept If you don't mind me saying this is something I've always felt and it's an episode. I've been burning to do So let's just get to it. I mean essentially One funny thing about this episode is it's not very heavy metal or hard rock. Although I am going to be mentioning a lot of bands that are hard. Rock and heavy metal but my examples per se are not particularly in that field. But I am going to end with a with a classic heavy metal band so So all shall be forgiven. I hope by the end of this. I might mention a few Honorable Mentions Myself All right so we're GONNA do this one a little bit differently. I hope it doesn't go on too long. I probably will shorten up when it comes to the actual entries but I have a little bit of a along intro here so I went to you the fine listeners. And and said hey give me some examples of this and it's kind of funny The example started flowing in and I'm going to read some of those in in a second But what I realized when I was reading these examples is I'm not too clear on what my concept is for this. I hope by the end of this episode and when you hear examples you're GonNa understand what has always been stuck in my brain for decades essentially about bands. That are like this why I think there are certain bands truly truly truly like this. So let's just get on with that so I sent. I sent off a facebook cry for help here So what did I say here so So here's a really cool concept that I'm at four at need one. More as I said bands of individuals and ecosystem is created with a clear north South East and West. It's an ecosystem that has not one world but four five teams that comprise a complex world. I've thought this for years about these four bands. But do you get my drift strode. A few band names and if one of them just hits me like a lightning bolt. I'll know it but I don't want to explain further or debated. Let's save that for the episode. Only one of my choices is remotely a metal band. So that's what I wrote And yet just to explain a little more before. I read some of these Entries the idea here is that these bands create almost like You know you think of a little Snow Globe that you shakeup and there. There's the snowflakes in there. There's this enclosed world that is a weird world but very importantly this world is not one that ends up being kind of a unified sounding thing that a lot of other band's sound like it is a world unto itself that's number one but number two it does have an east west North and south. I mean it. Basically sounds like a world of individual players or Feifdoms that is making this up so doesn't sound like particularly like a unified whole. It sounds like a band or a record or song that you listened to where you can't get the members themselves out of your head when you're listening to it. You don't think the band name you think all of these original members jumbled up together at once. I think that explains it probably pretty well but let me tell you quickly and what I'm going to do here is I'm going to leave out. The bans That were suggested that are actually my choices anyways. And I'm just going to go through some of these very quickly dispelled the notion of why didn't include the more. How they they? Almost clay came close. Oh so we've got vanya Derek. I mentioned led Zeppelin Queen Cream and Russia. Okay all of those are pretty close but no cigar. They had certain things about them. That were almost two unified Long Story But those ones are are all pretty close but let's see Jacob Tannahill said sons of Apollo Mister Big Asia. Any one of them fit the bill and I actually almost thought Asia that I would include But Yeah I think he's getting the point here Sons of Apollo definitely. You know the big the big You know important band members. Asia supergroup The police New York Doll says Thomas Hackney also the pretenders I would say no on the pretenders I would. That wouldn't have come to mind. I wouldn't New York dolls that come to mind. Police is one of my honorable mention so with that band. You know you are thinking This this chicken scratch sort of textured a guitar playing from Andy. You know base. I don't think you think of sting so much base but you think of that vocalist and then also I with Stewart Copeland. You definitely get a unique drummer. That is a distraction. I mean you're thinking of him when you're hearing these police songs so yes that's a good example of what we're getting at here. Augusta Garcia parade. As mentioned the clash. I would say no I don't. It doesn't really fit the bill here. Thomas Hackney comes up with AKS little bit. That's kind of cool. One Eagles Blazed Barshop. Says no I wouldn't say so Going to leave Well no I'm not going to leave this one because I kick them out. Pat conners has fleetwood Mac. I actually was include fleetwood Mac but I couldn't see myself playing a fleetwood Mac song as one of our five choices here but definitely you get the yet. This is a perfect example. And like I say I was one of mine that was on the at the top of my head. You get. Basically these. Three distinct vocalists are all with their personalities and their baggage in their own solo albums. The whole bit Stevie Nicks Christie. Make Christine mcvie his Christine. Yeah and Lindsey Buckingham All very distinct vocalists. And you also get You Know Mick. Fleetwood is the is kind of the the patriarch of the ban. But you had get this very stripped down drumming John mcvie Idaho. Don't really think of him too much in this but Lindsay as well you think of a very distinct Sort of I said chicken. Scratch already with Andy Summers. Chicken scratch makes a lot more sense with Lindsay So again you're listening to fleetwood Mac song or a few in a row and you're thinking oh when's this focus gonNA sing or that one or oh. They're they're doing this together And then and then. Lindsey gives you this very stark guitar Solo And and you get this very sort of straight line B line kind of Feel to a of their songs so that is a ban when you're listening to them. I can't get the members individually out of their heads hence bands of individuals. Okay crosby stills Nash and young don't know enough about them Beatles no I wouldn't say so Kiss I wouldn't say so Because in the end you basically get this band. That sounds kind like other bands. It's not it's not that big a deal right Black Sabbath I wouldn't say so doors is kind of interesting. I would kind of agree with the doors But again With the doors. I kind of think more so of Keyboardist and Kit Basically keyboards vocals is what I think about with the door so Let's see what else we got here. fog hat. No Genesis. Too many members to many different versions. I would say no faith. No more wouldn't say so a little bit at GonNa leave that Oak because that is one of my choices way to go Shannon Mahaffey By the way who have we heard from here Scott Carson Colson Veer Shuman on Rick Friel Let's see Chris. Cook Mentions Kiss Andrew? Theo mentions blue monster cult. I wouldn't say so Metallica no definitely not says Joe Backed Jeb. Right Buddy mind comes in with floyd little bit little bit. Wouldn't say so fully cheap trick no What else deep purple mark to Says NICK ARE MULLAH VICH? I would say not really there Steve. Mcnair mentions one that I am GONNA use here but he also mentions Judas priest and slayer and a CD. I would say no So there you go Andrew. Theo mentions a few more. You know giving a little more Helpful definition four five individuals while we know they contribute bits and songs they would have also to be writers Let's see Be See UFO. No I wouldn't say so. Yeah it's funny. I read this some thought and had some concern that maybe I'm not getting the point that this doesn't really exist. But after you hear my entries hopefully you will agree that they do exist so thanks everybody for all those all those contributions. So let's get this started so Yeah that's the longest we've gone without a song in in an episode of this Take a listen to this. This is our first one and we shall discuss. This is the WHO with the PUNK and the Godfather from Quadrophenia October twenty six nineteen seventy-three with off all right so this is the band that I think absolutely defines this idea. This is the band I've always had in my head. Every time I write a book review I would say who like And it's because of obviously the WHO but it is because of this idea so what so. Why is the WHO one of these so when I play a WHO Song? I hear the gaps between John. Entwistle's very busy very top. Heavy Bass playing You know he's off basically soloing on his own quite often these great baselines and then way over here way over the left east north like say North South East West. You hear Keith. Moon kind of the same thing. He's playing along. He's playing the riff on the drum. Sometimes you know people say that he plays little bit too to what Pete does but he soloing. He's very distinct. He's this drummer that You know he's he's like the star of the show and a lot of who songs and I. This is my favorite who almond I. I like this song I picked as an example of all this going on. You've got this lead singer whose whose you know. A lot of people think he's the most important guy in the band. He's the lead singer. Well he's not the most important guy in the band because he's not right in the songs but he has this big voice. This big main of curly blond hair. He's a distinctive guy. He shouting up there. You can't ignore him either. And then we've got Pete Townsend who one of my favorite guys of all time when it comes to rockers. Creativity Very Distinctive Guitar Sound Again a very very thin and tweet and he makes a lot of noises but he plays Acoustic Guitar He does synthesizers right But but he plays electric in a very distinct way where you notice what he's doing and then on many who songs he singing so this is the band like I say is the definition of this idea of bands of individuals It's it's the band that truly defines it way further in every extreme that I could possibly imagine. I don't see who songs coming out as this one thing this one sound. I truly see it as a snow globe of Four feifdoms. All right moving on Take some of this Yeah you're really getting some stuff. Here that you don't normally get on these episodes. Take a listen this this is yes parallels from my favorite yes album going for the one July Fifteenth Nineteen seventy seven. Wow all right so yes to me is the most who like of all the prog bands I truly believe that our K. I picked something of the sort of the classic lineup. Because I it is the one with the strongest personalities in the strongest examples of this into the Trevor ray-ban air. I don't feel this applies as much but you get the super important guy. John Anderson Writing Lyrics with this crazy high voice. He's kind of the leader of the band. He looks like a tweet little hippy. But he's cracking the whip with these guys. He's basically a pretty fierce strong personality. He his personality does not match that innocent little You know choirboy voice of his So He's important and he brings this this weird. You Know Eastern Mystical Philosophy. Everything is doing so he's bringing Like I say philosophy a baggage to the band like like a whole you know treatise of dusty texts to what he does in the band Again you got Chris Squire. Who's basically the prog version of a John Entwistle and you're gonNA notice in all of these to make this concept happen. Every one of these bands I pick has a strong distinct based in it. So there's a clue as to. Who's coming so Rick Wakeman? You've got this This force of nature who has something. I don't know he's got like a hundred albums out so not only is he just the keyboardist in this band. He's he's got this visual with the with the long robes and and the long hair. He's the funny man he's the Talker You know he's had his radio show and stuff but he's also a super super important member of the band and he He's known for these. These big soupy synthesizers and and in this one you hear sort of the The church Oregon sound that he does as well so again. Crazy important guy in the band even though he's only keyboards. Alan White doesn't quite fit this very much. I don't think Allen has up in a particular style that you pull out and you hear totally. So so he's maybe God Love Him. I love the guy you know. He's he's obviously the the. Yes drummer of of choice. Basically almost everything But he no he doesn't he do you. You don't you. Don't listen to this and you're not distracted by the drumming and say wow that's A. That's a certain drummer that we know that drummer and and then finally you've got. Steve. How are you? Don't hear what Steve is kind of known for the most on here. Steve is kind of that wiry Guitar. There's a little bit of that you hear in here but again. Steve has a very distinct style. And you hear across lots of the yes material so again even though this is five guys making a lot of noise. It's five guys making a lot of noise that sounds like a progressive version of the WHO all right. So let's take a short break and we shall be right back alright moving on here. History and five songs with Martin popoff his episode forty seven bands of individuals. Here's another Ria left-field choice. Nobody mentioned this. One granted to my facebook page For this you know. Our tribe is is kind of thinking in hard rock heavy metal terms. So I've kind of thrown you curveball here And this is the biggest of all curbs. Take a listen to this. This is the stranglers with Nice and sleazy. We came across the West. We didn't have much idea kind of climate's waiting guidance. Lights Been Children Nitrite. Three seeking all right so I consider the stranglers almost like the The WHO of Post Punk magazine to me is the pink floyd of Post post-punk. There aren't too many bands that I would think of as the WHO of punk album? The damned would fit that and I almost picked the damned here but there are certain things about the damned. I think that fall down possibly in the guitar thing and all the changing of the members So it doesn't have this thing this through line throughout all the catalog but the stranglers a totally fit this to me Basically what you hear in here is you here. that this crazy we've of these geometric rhythms you've got jet black with this sort of Deceptively simple but odd time signatures and stuff out on at the end of things you hear Dave Greenfield. I WANNA dedicate. This is episode to Dear Dave Dave just recently died He's the keyboardist in the band. The band just revered him. As as a pioneer he comes up with all these crazy synthesizer sounds and and really innovative keyboard. Lines that are super up and prominent than what's going on You've got you've got a vocalist in in Hugh Cornwell here. Who has a very distinct low voice So that's pretty interesting and then you also have a again a very very strong basis in Zhanjiang Burnell and you hear that on here. So you get that really. Stunned are really toppy. Chris Squire. Getty Lee LemMe John Entwistle Bass on here. So again stranglers. What do you get? This is a perfect example. I wanted to pick this perfect example of again. The Snow Globe are you. Were you know you look off in that corner? There's there's Hugh you look off in that corner there's jet you look off. Dave. Jj So you don't get a unified sound. You get a bunch of things that we've together that create a very very odd world. That strangler been so good at at keeping together throughout all this whole career. Obviously they had the big falling out with with Hugh And it's bad worn You Know Big Ball. Big Bald guy lead singing and playing guitar very very. Abeille and making the stranglers like a totally valid. Very Cool Act and they've stuck to more or less this sound this strange world that they created a kind of on their own. Alright so moving on a number four history and five songs with Martin. Popoff take a listen to this Another real left field thing. Shannon You absolutely nailed it. You knew I would pick this You can read my mind. Take a listen this is King Crimson with the Howler from beat my favorite of the three records in a row here June eighteenth one thousand nine hundred all right so I love this era of King Crimson. I've said before I think I've even said it on this podcast. I would love to write a book even just on these three albums you'll get read. One discipline This is this is the rejuvenated reformed King Crimson for the eighties. She get disciplined. The Red One beat the blue one and then you get three of a perfect pair of the yellow one and that's it and then they kind of move on and it gets. Yeah it's a long story gets to be a mess too much instrumental too much noise EP. Epa's long spread apart. We don't get enough songs for the rest of the catalog. It kind of annoys me. I'm not not a big fan of the modern King Crimson although I saw them live. And it blew me away with the three drummers and all that stuff crazy crazy chops but anyways beat is my favorite of these so I wanted to pick one from beat and again This is the perfect example of a band that is just like four very distinct disparate parts coming together But not to together to make a a world and environment and ecosystem. So you've got Bill Bouffard Super Distinct Drummer. He was Early yesterday of course But you know with bill you get this very cool fluid melodic sound he. He loves his His Tom Toms big floppy Tom. Tom Sound But really cool. Distinct Drummer loved the Guy You get Robert trip super You know distinct guitarist in what he does. He's known for the looping and then also the sort of synthesized sound that he does and kind of really tonal things so he's got a few things in his chest but you But you always know. It's him when he does is. He's done some amazing amazing solo albums exposure and great stuff on the Peter. Gabriel albums You get Adrian blue. Probably my favorite rocker of all time. love what he does but again a he's the he's the only lyricist in the band and he's got. I mean. Sorry only vocalist in the band. Probably the Guy Writing Lyrics as well But only vocalist in the band and he does all these You know he has a very distinct sound in his voice but again he's in there supercharging the band with another completely distinct Guitar sound so he's known to be the guy who likes creating a you know animal noises. Almost comedic sounds on the guitar. Basically he's kind of annoys. Nick A noisemaker. He comes up with these. These crazy crazy. Sounds that sounds like the jungle. Basically so he's that guy in the band and then you've got Tony Levin One of the most distinct a basis of Of prog rock of the era. He's the guy known for the Chapman. Stick Bald Guy Mustache You know that kneepads thing going He's got the Chapman stick. You've Seen Him with the upright base on little pointy thing and the funk where he can play You know he can. He can hit the bass strings with these sort of stylized drumsticks on the end of his fingers but he's also known for his great fretless Licks and and you hear that on on these albums as well I mean. Check him out on on you know the classic Peter Gabriel Material as well right But yes so so. There you go King Crimson. Another one of these bands of individuals weird weird world is created. But when I'm playing this band all I can think of all those individual members and they're super strong personalities. All right moving on to our last one I promised I would Take us back to heavy metal and pick heavy metal band and this is a band that is a heavy heavy on my mind because I'm finishing up a third of a trilogy of books on them Take a listen to this. This is iron maiden with the ghost of the navigator style. All right so this is from brave. New World May twenty nine th two thousand You know maiden is a band that I've I've basically come to the conclusion that they are very who like and again You know the reasons this sort of comes out. This is a funny one because I do not feel this at all in the guitar. World with the band Dave versus Adrian Versus. Yanic barely can tell them apart. They think so much alike and they do so much alike. And then they do those weaves together where they're cooperating anyways I really don't see a huge difference in the guitar thing that they do and I don't really feel that there's a distinct guitar thing they do other than you know the very celebrated thing which is which is those a harmony leads that they do. So that's that's the cool thing from Medan but that is an important thing and it does contribute to the WHO like aspect of this band again strong basis. So this is all. This is a theme right throughout all of these five here. Steve is a super important part of this band. I wanted to pick a song. That has that toppy base on it but as time goes on Or as Paul D. Anno calls it. Classy base as time goes on. He doesn't actually do this so much. He'll come back to us with a little bit of a of a regular Bass sound on some of the later material which is Kinda cool But no I wanted to pick something that had this sort of sound and also Steve is Is known as the leader of the band and he's also known as the chief lyricist of the band splitting things. Roughly sixty forty. Would you say with Bruce? Sixty five thirty five that kind of thing But but no. So that's that's kind of important and then you do have a vocalist that you can't get out of your mind when he's when he sing and I mean this is a strong strong personality just a just a dynamo of energy and a super unique sound Yeah actually forgetting one also very important nickel macbrayne on drums you know. Essentially he does. Remind me of Keith Moon. He's got that same kind of Kind of I don't know looney personality to. He's obviously a lot more grounded than Keith. Moon was but but he does have that that Kinda goofy English humor to him but he also plays somewhat Keith Moon. Like he's a little traditional and what he does with his fills but but he likes to hit a lot of things and he plays with a lot of energy. And there's A. There's a lot of innovative things that he has to get up to. You know forced into it. Almost by the you know the different time signatures. And all these long instrumental passages That you get out of out of Nikko but and there's a lot of. There's a lot of maiden songs where you really do. Feel that Hummus going on this. This chemistry between the band says that's a word I haven't mentioned here. There's a chemistry that goes on. That's this firing back and forth between all these distinctive player. So so yeah. I've I've basically come to the conclusion after you know writing these three iron maiden books and I had to before this as well but this is this. Is the trilogy that sort of the Redo of long story out of print stuff? Basically turning this into normal books we had where eagles dare holy smoke which is out of print and the next one is going to be called Empire the clouds. I still have some where eagles dare And probably might put holy smoke back into print. When I put empire the cloud anyways there is I've noticed across all of this. Even the later days material. They they essentially settled into a sound. That is all. There's nobody can copy them. Nobody dares copy them but is you know they are an ecosystem unto themselves. One made up of these personalities You know the the first bunch of albums I don't feel that about. They're all different from each other but they basically settle in on peace of mind and then you know quite frankly make more or less the same record all the way through with With minor variations. They basically do have a sound. It is their sound. And that's what they do All right so that's it. Those are five five here on history and five songs with Martin. Popoff hope you like that bands of individuals I just wanted to mention a couple of Of Honorable Mentions that. I thought also kind of fit this idea and people had pointed out Well actually there's really only two that I haven't mentioned that I do WanNa mention. I almost put van Halen in here. I do feel that they kind of belong in this thing. I've often described van. Halen as who like they've obviously got the same configuration for guys? One of a frontman right. So three. Three instrumentalists Interestingly enough that guitar player got into keyboards like P towns But you do you do here very distinct guitar all the time you. You can't get that drummer out of your mind basis a little bit of a different story. I don't think Mike he really has A. You know a specific it's eighty playing anyways and then you've got a strong vocalist up top with a big personality whether David Lee Roth or or Sammy Hager right Or Gary Sharon actually. There's you know we we just put up a site episode of our contrarians. Youtube show We did our first episode on Van. Halen three That's what we call it The worst the worst album edition so we. We basically debate the worst album of a band of the goods and bads of it. Or whatever mostly bad of course So yes so there you go. There are some Honorable Mentions that. Oh actually I one more Gillan Gillan is a band that I always think about all the time because I love him. So much One of my favorite bands of all time but Gillan to me is the doors of heavy metal or punk version of heavy metal or the Post punk version of heavy metal. You can't get that keyboardist Colin towns out of your mind Ian Gillan. Obviously leader of the band John McCoy has that stunned base that he does that. Same toppy distorted Bass Mick underwood a really cool Hang on Mick Underwood Mick. Fleetwood SEWRI MEC Anyways very distinct Drummer as well Kinda Kinda like noisy lot of energy lot of snare work out of him and then You know when Yannick was in the ban would say there was a distinctness to the guitar thing but definitely Bernie Torme had a distinct kind of Punky snarly. Hanoi rocks attitude. What he was doing. So yeah again you did get kind of a world created the strange strange. Gillan sound that you could hear the separate parts so there you go. I know I've driven this point home completely Because we had our five and we probably talked about a good eight or nine more in a fair bit of detail. Let's wrap it up there. That was it banned of individuals episode. Forty-seven go to the facebook. Page a for this Comment you know what you think For All your book needs you can go to Martin. Popoff DOT COM Everything is there with paypal. Buttons The rush book is selling really well. This is Anthem Russian the seventies. There's going to be limelight rush in the eighties and driven a Russian the ninety s and in the end a later on But the merciful fate. I ran out but I am going to small reprint of that. And like I say that the maiden is available the priests are available basically anything that's imprint I have copies of There and I will be getting copies of my new blue monster. Call to visual biography. Those are on their way over here from the UK. I will be signing and selling those as well. Let's wrap it up there. Thanks again for listening Here you again next time. Find all of our shows. Notes Social Links at www dot penfield podcasts dot com. Or wherever you listen to great podcasts. All songs have you found for purchase on Itunes spotify or reply please purchase great. An important trucks find us on facebook at the. Rn Are we are on instagram. At our our archaeology arm and our our he'll my name is Dome Carter Aka Demo and I'm native long and we're two thirds of the crew that hosted dead Bod pod our Third Co host is internationally acclaimed tip operator. David Ma as the name of the those sugges- deadline rap pod is a podcast where men of a certain age discuss did they end rallies while we are somewhat classicist in our tastes and grew up listening to hip hop from the eighties. Until now we're also interested in the music present and future over the past hundred fifteen episodes. We have been interviewed rap. Legends like Chris Paul Del the funky almost APN TAE Kool Keith. Egypt premier and even the Proto Rap Group. The last poets just an we also make it a point to talk to writers commentators in. Creatives shaping. The Genre we've interviewed journalists and bestselling authors like the annual Friedman Jeff Weiss and East Abdur Akiva an atom man's back and as mentioned even though we are products of the eighties nineties. We take time out to talk to some of the most important voices and wrap today groups and individuals like little brother open. Mike Eagle Billy. Woods for if you don't recognize any of those names that's okay because what we love most on this podcast is to introduce old school fans of rap music to new music that we know will love new episodes every week on Thursday. We are the dead bud rap pod.

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Intercom on Product: One for the roadmap

Inside Intercom Podcast

38:16 min | 3 months ago

Intercom on Product: One for the roadmap

"Hi Welcome to Intercom product myself says. Kobe, Senator Intercom Senior. Vice President of product. Over the time we've worked together. Account as conversations about things like Hetero in a product at scale had a balance customer feedback on your product roadmap had a spread of product I throughout a company had to maintain design accidents in a fast growing or team and so much more. In this series, we're going to begin sharing some of these discussions where you on a regular basis covering everything from industry trends. What's right now all the way through. How are we embracing the rise of automation? So. If you're a designer product monitor engineer researcher or anything in between, you'll find these conversations really. You can subscribe to in Tacoma product on I tunes in Stream spotify or even just grabbed your sp in your player of choice. Thanks for listening. Welcome to twelve episode of Intercom on product. Today, we're going to talk about the wonderful work of fiction that every product team has known as the robot. I'm joined as ever by our senior vice president of product Mr Paul Adams Paul does. Today. We're GONNA talk entirely but robots Paul loads of questions for you about rogue ops where do you WanNa, start we have though the talknet obviously we we've changed how we intercom time and again over the last whatever seventy nine years I think we should start at the beginning. I would love to hear in. The side of the story of road nothing at Inter comments. Prior to me joining. Alvarez like two years old joined, and so I was I you and three hundred desk. Love Tear Bit Bash why he decided about to build. Yeah it was. It was every bit of scrappy. As you'd expect, there was four of us and we had a long list things to do curiously when I when I look back at some of the photographs of the whiteboard visa just write down while we were doing every day on a whiteboard of Vezio. You to. We never bothered distinguishing. Company work from robot work. If you know what I mean like the road, map was going all the things they needed to get done an intercom. So it would include like customer support along what is buying a domain name along with building feature because it was just it was four of us under his Daphne Dot sorta. Chaotic? Evren does everything. The way we actually broke down or a days was we had four founders myself own cure on. And we would draw each other names in a row and then we'd have a tree book. It's time every day morning noon and night effectively five days a week and we were literally allocates to each of those periods. So it'd be like, Hey, we're gonna add tagging this week. So cure on's going to work on tagging on Wednesday Thursday Friday because owns designing as. Dave is GonNa work on Tuesday Wednesday Thursday I thought it'd be like. Kind Kinda dot out Hawk on that scrappy and the next evolution of that was a own moved to San Francisco. We started getting into mailing everyone what we're doing because it was no central whiteboard anymore I, think we're also possibly inbetween offices. We were moving out of a university compass and into to our first real office so that the was. Literally as he take your first sip of coffee sanity melted the entire company of four, five, six, seven of us just literally listed bullet out what are you doing that day? To a some sort of useful air like it was candlelight what any of our current teams do understand what it was like it again, it would include everything who wasn't just product specific. Anything across the entire company and I think like the main thing was if it was any significant feature coming unless it was something like a rails upgrade or something like that ever knew about it on pretty much ever worked on it together. So it wasn't so much. We had a road we had an agreement most weeks and what was main feature rerouting the intercom that week on that agreement will be. Like one of US usually me would go and talk to customers in workout. The kind of the bones of what of what like this feature needed to be able to do own would do visual design Karen David than later on Dara would start to she engineers, and then it be live and we'd like to announce it via intercom and get the feedback and see if we got it right on us. I think for early stage startups I always worry when I see them as being kind of quite over processed over specked. I think out of of like. Agility, you could call a cassie could call it agility depending on what are you pitching or not I think there's a lot of volume being able to like turn on a sixpence on do next teen. In the early stages product market fit you're still shipping still fun. You're looking to hit this sort of what I call it a vein of value in your customers you're like you're looking for something like we're are shit that's really powerful do more of that and as a result, he can't really sign away to money future weeks because you don't what you're gonNA learn this week. The other reason is to sort of add the lindy effect. This idea that the lifespan of anything is usually proportionate to head on lived already in and I think when you know when you have a sense of a monthly burn on a limited runway. Like when you're staring at a nine months maximum future lifespan, the company unless good stuff happens. The idea of conine months roadmap seems ridiculous because like you know you should probably like each trying to hit some sort of value in the next month or two so that Kinda gets broken into four weeks, which probably gets broken down to four features. I can't say like the. Perfect. I would say is A. I would definitely err on the side of maximum agility and maximum capacity to act on learnings. Done I would on like on ruthless. Productivity by like having a long term future facing roadmap that describes everything that is going to do over next year because as an early stage startup, you just don't have a clue. So. That's like the limited amount of structure we had until the stars aligned brought on board one of silicon. Valley's most wanted product the old Mister Paulhamus. I think when you joined, we adjust raise the series and the idea of the future being like. So uncertain was kind of dearest a little but we knew we we just it at five and a half million dollars. So we knew we had at least a couple of years in us. So I thought point came more of like. Well, there's going to be we're going to start hiring more people I. Think you know maybe you were you like to charity or fifteen person or something? Yeah. Thirteen to. That's a good memory doesn't. Like once you start adding more heads, you need to have more structured getting these people to work together. Also for the first time, you're probably not all working on the exact same thing, which means you have more than one Tang in the product at the same time, which means you need some amount of. Grand Central. Instructor who makes sure that you don't code across each other or like? The country, each other a low behold. This means more than one person agreeing on what's happening on more than one thing happening Aka a roadmap that was probably one of the things you did you time earliest. So I guess at hunt back to you and say like what was your perspective on Rowbotham coming in on? What did you see that you needed to add end like for like say it was a Thirty Person Series Startup yes. talk with today's because women strides a against the questions from facebook where was different. Animal to inch. At the time but it doesn't hear the life you lead in the early days as he said like, Austin road nothing explicitly. But actually like the task today daily tasks, your calendar planning everything was time like merged into one activity you know. It's funny to think about that because I think like you said, you know you kind of get wary of early stage companies and startups who are over process-oriented. We could probably read a lot into whether they are from looking at their calendars. So. Yeah it was fascinating to come in because I've never worked in a start the for income. FACEBOOK preachy years before that has been affirmative years and so they were both big companies join them. I think Google eight thousand people when I joined on facebook was advice tousands from memory action member is by the thousand sows don't relatively Citibank Intercom was like as said whatever twelve thirteen people And remembered facebook one of the things that I was really impressed by the time we're going back nightside twenty eleven era. facebook. itself. No. Problems. It's Seven grades on their future. That can Tony Levin but I'm the I remember took two timelines and from memory it was roughly six months and twenty years. It's kind of amazing to think about that even back then. Timelines a mattered were the epic change bring about in the world's over a period that will transcend the rain of different governments in all sorts of stuff. Yeah. But then six months. Okay. That's the dream. Best Division brought the next six months gonNA. Look like a remember I can is a PM there we used to do kind of sticks in twelve months roadmaps. So I'd make a roadmap for the next six months every half you'd have view the second six months as well. Not, from was annual plannings did it each year I think? So, obviously, like does continue difference to Intercom on the minimum we command. Yeah. We raised the series say or what you guys raise a series in I inherited. Success of that, we started hiring teams on. Remember we hired for we put in place a new structure because originally when I, commend, we just had like all of us were still kind of in this amorphous blob building in working together. Then we brought him at fourteen support product managers, designers, etc etc. So yeah, we started looking at time I'm thinking of time on the question I think we debate about that was also a time line fringe calm. So we gotta move beyond that like you know three, three, four, five. New had to something that wasn't facebook time wasn't twenty years and even six months fringe come then was kind of a long period of time to look into the future and so I remember we settled exact time this happened but there's about a year after I joined we settled on the six six, six road. where it was the next six weeks, the next six months on the next six years. We kind of said like x years isn't time around which we have a vision a dream but we need a six month plan but six months for us is still quite a long way to future for me. Still like a you know, I guess maybe as Essex of the lifespan of a company or something, right? Exactly. Exactly three years old. So six weeks our version of facebook six months. Pragmatic this is actually happening. So we need to do beyond this week bus a week two and three and four. Then we are very goals oriented always I think fry join the other founders were very goal oriented to daily soap? Dare. six weeks. What's are what our goals are the success of like. So even even by down outcome focused in terms of like successful six weeks looks like ex yeah. I will say like it's very me to compliment you on broadcast but I think the things you did that really helped land the. How would you say like the specificity on maybe like introduction bitter rigor off like say six weeks was you also? Brought in these have. long-term vision statements like I remember we had posters in the office saying things like all businesses will become Internet businesses or the future of customer service will look more like the past present her like the Internet is still younger. I remember you you you. You produced a lot of these. There probably remember they were like, Helvetica just black and white posters era a in our contain but I think like it kind of elect people except like, Hey, this might feel like pretty restrictive in a sense that like for next six weeks were being quite rigid on making sure we ship. Tagging or something like pretty minimal like that. But you gave us a kind of a broader perspective that lettuce join the dots between today's work on the work that we were doing on the on the sort of the long term horizon of the Internet. I think that mattered because I think lever by entity idea that we need structure, we need roadmap we need to be moving fast because like you know we had this to epic horizon where where we were making these kind of bigger more. Visionary statements step if every year aboard by like working on merge users, you could look at a poster remember like merge uses is one step of a million steps that we're going to make towards this APP change. We're GONNA make on the Internet which we still hope to make what I think for like. I. Guess they're repurpose advice. There is a for early stage startups who are who are maybe feeling any sort of resistance about moving a bit of regular and a bit of like A. Efficiency, it helps if the big meaty long-term mission with strong statements attached to dot can kinda helped the roadmap resonate and of compliment. Says I'll take I have learned that facebook. I think you know the idea of being that you have to balance the pragmatic work hard execute nature like facebook axons, executing I remember that from the culture back then too greedy, phenomenally efficient organization Rudy, accent executing on they had this exceptionally good balance of like sailing the future with the Mike just kind of more mundane tasks you might have to do day today, but I think one of the big things for me than to was a think these statements that that facebook at the time and then you know that. Restarted, cringe come there kind of beliefs. You know there are things like things we believe about the future on a psycho. Hey, what if we believe these things are GonNa happen we may play an important role in making them. To pass or might benefit from set ourselves up well, you know. The idea that you need both I think is really important especially in the earliest days. Well, actually be. I think it's still true today and I think if anything I'M A few of US props taking too much for granted that ever knows. As you know recently, we started talking about like what in our most recent all hands for product we started revisiting the company mission 'cause he kind of realized you you on accident skip away from it. Especially, when you start celebrating the efficiency and productivity of Your Deacon definitely, forget that all of that only modernists because it serves two. Purposes longer term timeline. Gruesome. Tell me this as it gets like, how would I say more complicated road mapping gets hard I'm more complicated. Usually it means that there are you know in the early days road mapping something that you do just to make sure it ever knows what's going on an ever in most product. Glad. Startups product lead growth startups. Ever in is basically the product team earlier and eighteen designers engineers PM CETERA. Once everyone. Else shows by ever now says to say sales marketing, finance support. You know unanimous Durra, know lots of people who care about what the Hell's going on would into product work because they're all downstream of it and they all. Benefit from succeed from US or suffer from struggle with us like you know I don't got this right in early days. But how how would you sort of advise younger companies to think about robot one store are non have you say non or non engineering functions showing up? Would curious eye on what's going on? Complicated that's for sure. So you know we were talking about their six era thing that might a loss edge maybe two years or so. But remember blog post back then and even then we were executing that wasn't perfect on even the six year stuff was quite hand wavy. We believe what happened in the future and therefore about. So that is quite anway. Back then like I'm writing a blog post batteries on the block sales somewhere, and at the end of the posted says hagia reading this it's probably changed by now you know be we this thing was in a constant state of evolution. And like you kind of touched on their different things change. So so one thing that changes is the product engineering team stop bigger and so with that bigger team, you get more diversity of thought, which is often a great thing but just more opinions and more people and you know from backgrounds as vile different styles producing software. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So the diversity of toss there is generally beneficial company, but still the company has a mission vision plan and Donna keep everyone aligned keeping guy and so on. So that was kind of one that's one challenge, the internal product engineering teams themselves. And then you have like the other functions you know. So when I joined Intercom, we say on team. and. We start in sales team at one point and was small grew on any change in its culture changed over the years to, and now it's much bigger than it was back then. So if sales represents the voice of the prospective customer in in a road mapping process, the voice of sales will completely change over the years. I don't want to say like it'll get better get worse or. Compete depend on the company in the sales team in Prague measuring teams, never relationship, but it definitely changes. and. What was really important for us? I think we learn the hard way was that you need build a really strong partnership between these functions. The kind of represented important voice. Let's sales's prospective customer. To customer support, team could be the voice of the existing customer sometimes people close to us and the marketing representing the voice, the market, and so there's a lot going on on a lot of different stakeholders now on. So it's absolutely the case that gets more complicated and I think the the thing we did well was put in place process around this year like like not too much process again, activity that you can have Jewish process for your ears age but just enough to keep these different voices of different constituents in the foles when robots were created I, think does a key team there which is. All of these forces are boat inputs to what you should build, and we can talk more about in a little bit under also under receiving after a Bob. So on one hundred on a here from sales about why they Conoco's deals on the other hand sails need a robot with the coast deal. So they're gonNA, they're gonNA, receives the output similarly marketing program provide like the market landscape or competitive analysis but also they need to market the hell that at the stuff that's coming down the line finance, allocate your costs finance also model the impact of what you do support tell you what's broken they. Need to know what's going to get fixed unlike we even like you know amongst those as you bring in all these maybe audiences isn't the right word like partners is probably a better word because it is a give and take it's tempting to forget about the actual the product team themselves who both have ideas about what should be built or do is you would want the pair with on the flip side. They're also they need to be inspired by whatever's on the road was well, they need to look at the road on did just can't see like seventy eight iterations of our like salesforce billion need. Like there needs to be something there to hug them able to join the dots between the visionary statements on the posters under wall on the work you're doing today, and if there's nothing there to help kind of build up bridge, it's a toe fro up to like to get people excited by so I think the lesson for me is you know I think we were probably slow too. I think certainly in my mind like there was nearly a novelty to have more having more more than one group tell about the roadmap today I think it's much more. We need to get out there and make sure. It ever knows, Hey, robot piercings we'd love to hear here's the areas we think you'd be experts. Here's what we'd love to get from you in whatever form you can share, and then we're going to bake all this in and then we're gonNA come back to you and tell you what the roadmap is unofficial if it doesn't look exactly like help we're gonNA explain why that is so do you know so you can still buy into it the one area where I think most people start to get extreme fear is when you end up a public road maps or customer facing roadmaps, what's your thoughts us? Before is getting tougher second just on the prior point there I think the partnership I. Think The partnership is the best word at least current on stuff. Just last week, for example, leaders off site here in the company and he was kind of workshops here on one was like partnerships between product engineering and sales. Moon is better partnerships in products engineering on marketing we've always had to go do not support actually in his you know part of our product line is actually is software for support things, but the interesting I think like you said, it has been slow are we have been slow in product engineering side? Suspects listening to the podcast day like us are probably product Focus Company, and product engineering founded company, the product engineering team, or the kind of the earliest employees and lot of the gravity uninfluenced might set with the with those folks. They might have different people listening where the companies founded by sales, people or marketing folks name have a different gravity import listen to our podcast. The reality check. Them. ABS REAL THAT WE'VE YOUR Audience. I suspect might not be true. That's true. Yeah. So the partnership thing something I reading her she was embrace as early as possible. Even almost like when you think it's almost two already probably the right time because you're contract your biases but it also. For, me brings up ownership to come back to this mistake like the ownership piece matters because I think in the early days with sales partnership for example, wasn't partnership it was like we listened to sales and said, hey, thanks for the feedback with think about us see. I don't pay anywhere near enough. Respects maybe or whatever you know attentions are any to actually need to go like you said, sal this uncertain. It should actually be a full two way streets under the ownership piece comes up because if if you want your sales team, for example to really help you really great inputs into Euro really understand consumers that's a lotta work for them. Things to do like actually sow. Yeah. It's also worked. They're not incentivized to do like I think one of the things that people don't understand is. Generally speaking people do what you paid them to do. And in general. Now. In talks to sales or in most companies and says, one of your jobs is to improve the quality of the product. But making sure that we all understand what the needs of our customers are but it's a huge like it's hugely important. Just possibly not discussed offense. Especially, we even feel the tension like when it comes to like. On Your Hey I'm looking for reference goes to detriot the new series Beta on dirt. They're very justifiably saying not right now as you know on, it makes a lot of sense but you you you need to make sure like you're aligned with with sales leadership that this is a thing that will really remodel long-term, but it will look a little bit like expensive or a time soak into short-term. Yeah. ownership base. This matters to the sales team need to feel like they're har owners, Co owners of the Roma, Infra Support, team marketing team like the design team engineering team. If PM, the Park Management Team are typically the people who drives a creations are over. And I think in the worst versions of that world, they think they are the owner on it's their job to create this great robot. Around, they must be mostly do with themselves. some cultures you know kind of propagate that idea kind of PMS, CEO type thing. whereas. We are not at all like the I would advocate that the should not set themselves up that way on instead the PM who. Should be opinionated berry opinionated about their product and really June what. Their customers if there are the product need but that they're also an expert facilitator collaborator. and. Functions Feel co-ownership or part ownership of the Roma. Why is it so hard? Why is so much excited about bringing a robot as to customers and saying, here's what we are going to build in the future. Yeah so One big thing is that you're committing your future resources and so you're you're not removing optionality. That's a huge. For me. And I think it's I. Think it's good that have a kind of a customer version of a robot instinct through and so on, and actually an indirect comes a much deeper partnership with our customers in our sales team. Another better world to especially if you like US near Company. but I'll see the many say to customer we will deliver X. Well you better so Okay So now you're suddenly. Committed sometimes committed to dates. You know sometimes you might publicly, we will deliver X by Y. Sometimes that's in response to customer demands like, Hey, if you don't build x by Y organic, we're not redoing or whatever. Yeah. Since it is real pressure here, but it just removes optionality commits an. So back to the kind of vision stuff the posters on the wall what you believe in things you on to change on a Creighton the world is that you just believe in if you the more you commit publicly the more optionality. Remove to do stuff. I think on the one case advice I've given to order companies like probably. Series BBC like stage where they have real customers and real customers accounting for like non trivial revenue that they actually do take quite seriously is just you can't give away the majority of the capacity in your org because otherwise you'll be executing a strategy hoping to, God, you don't find anything that contradicts what you believed when you set it in motion. So you know so a big fear I would always have his and I've I've seen this happen with. Large companies successful companies is that you write up a sort of one year one and a half years worth road mapping or you right up district Epoch feature release on maybe you go and announce it at you pre-announced. You see that you like I remember being at a at a conference where to see was literally showcasing this sing that had not had a line of code written it yet they actually hired a graphic design agency to build a mockup Ui tissue show off what it might look like. And I think. You're if your basic hard committing resources with that little visibility ahead. You're hoping that nothing changes your competitors don't change your customers don't change the minds just change the norm doesn't change still at browser technology iphone versions like duracell many things you literally don't know about yet. Here you are trump away majority of potentially translator majority of your warranty or part design engineering resources all on one thing that may not be a hit on an indicator of that example I. I think it was two years later that the feature was finally released to the public. Obviously, the worst part was in what do you think that at all events in between they just promised more shit. So you Kinda have like a product team relegated to working on yesterday's promises tomorrow, which is a really scary place to be. Okay. Let's try and wrap up on a different sort of more granted and tactical things. One for me is if you're trying to think about like getting your robot right or if like if I dropped you into like a different product or tomorrow, and you're a quick look at roadmap itself like Jerry I'm sure you take your usual framework of inputs, outputs and outcomes and you analyze what's going right? What's going wrong here talked about like how do you think about the inputs? What are right teams involved on? What are you lookin' effort I as you kind of evaluate the roadmap system. Yeah. So we we do have a system. It's evolved over the years. So this this thing change looks different to how did you know five six years ago when I first started doing this ernest design note if you if you. If you showed US united as you showed it five years ago the intercom up today, we'll be like mccaw. So much has changed on the infancy office, James The relationship with different functions changed you know we I remember I. Remember saying we will never have any kind of customer facing roadmap that's body. You know now we do that in different kind of always so. Back to the kind of the piece about balance you know like back to the Facebook, idea of the twenty years in six months in back to the six six six idea that we have if years ago there's definitely in a really important balance between. Reserving space for the stuff you want to build you know so the. Most companies listening know what their mission the company is. That is the reason company says them to make money. Have a vision for the future. That looks better than today and is the reason that people would buy your products in the future because you're differentiated in some interesting you important way. And then that's going to one side of a non on the other side. These days we have a pretty rigorous process which which always needs improving, but it's relatively rigorous. You know if you look back over the years about the kind of comparing this to ourselves, Iran's like pulling in feedback from customers unintended doctrine prospective customers. Things like surveys, NPS, charon customers in what happens there they say, why do they quest? We remove those reasons people to quit in the future. Product satisfaction we have reports for projects these days, kind of looks at the metrics that we asked success metrics and so does to Hobbes sedans two sides fifty, fifty one half is the kind of your strategy things you want to build making sure you've protected roadmap time. Or you know developer time ready to go and bills the stuff you believe in of conviction I wanNA take some bets on because you have a vision for future an and all that kind of stuff that you just know is GonNa help you drive revenue, keep the company healthy give you the future that longer term future that he can kind of invest in yet I think the detention is the balancing of sure shots and Big Bets A. Few just now will work, but it's usually not going to be like the journey tends to not be any like multibillion dollar I notice lower type is they generally tend to be committed to form of higher risk. Reward. That brings me to the last topic that maybe we'll close out on, which is just a road mapping is is a process ultimately on an all process exists to try and find common standards common quality in terms of put. But. The risk I think you run into the more specific and highly instrumented you get is that you maximize productivity or throughput or delivery. In this case at the expense of creativity creativity isn't a sense inherently inefficient because you have to writing, you have to try things and not all things work, which means you need to accept that likes yields off the old throw away and that needs to be. Accounted for in how you think. So a question I often come to see any process and intercom, or in fact, any company is just what's the downside of this process because I think a real fear I have is when most people look at the sort of Wedneday and use a process, it's usually reaction to a. Reaction to Oh we got this wrong or hey johnny ship Disney shouldn't it or whatever, and like. All right we'll add a step called should johnny ship this to the process. Next thing you know you've got a twenty-seven checkpoints forcing can go live, which ultimately hurts efficiency, which ultimately hurts leverage and because of all that like I I think the risk is you guarantee a minimal standard at the cost of a high standard on like that's just it's a dangerous place to be for a company frankly, but I'd say especially like A. Startup that's the claiming to disrupt the status quo by by building foster on on making more coastal people would necessarily coming if you have this meat grinder process that beats the shit out of any creative idea on guarantees ever everything comes out pretty vanilla but at the same time, every hour was spent effectively i. think that's like it's classic small company behaving like a big company where it's also it is the seat of your own disruption because you're no longer capable of with new ideas because it's not safe to do so so. Yeah I I, agree with that I think it's really important. It's actually just as you're talking there reminded that we hear it. Until I'm completely redesigned our robot process over the last six months I want six to twelve months. Maybe we KINDA started rolling is a few months ago. We kinda a ground debris. Thank just doesn't exercise in that can sure we weren't fall into that trap ourselves. and. The one thing we did we made a whole bunch changes but the number one thing we did was we removed loads to know the detail. You know low the specificity took. and. So the you know the the the roadmap process we have is based on principles we believe in and so over the years it kind of odd and in base those mistakes he mentioned can add end stuff was we're trying to manage risk. We're trying to avoid making mistakes again, we're trying to make sure that. You know were inefficient Oregon so on. But teams were hand a lot of feedback that was too too prescriptive to narrow and not giving benefit atonomy independent to really kind of. Form, their own path for the parts of the product that they own. The biggest change you made was removing all of that detail. You know the kind of point Barrow is the. If you're talking talk there, we did actually walk the walk over the last six months I think the interesting inflection point is A. Early early on you or me or any of the product leadership was so close to customers and so close to the actual customer support team and the actual words are ripping written about the features we released the you have this kind of tacit knowledge on top. And then as like Lara's arrive as in, you know you go from being on, know from being like monitoring monitors to monitor directors, managers of groups and the distance between product leadership on the actual frontline gets ridiculous to the point like the best ideas are gonNA come from the group level or at a p M selves and at process that's designed that assumes that I Paul has some superpower in a world where Paul isn't a intouch Christmas anywhere near as frequently as say, the actual frontline PM's is just a broken process and I think that was the thing for me that he tweaked it for me was just seeing that like I actually. Haven't a clue how half of our of our platform integrations were on I don't know he uses them away on. So when you even the idea like my opinion should monitor what we do. There is kind of ridiculous at this stage. I. Definitely know who our big customers are on I definitely investment time with them when you actually get into the specifics of what's important in a product, you're much better off delegating like the creativity to frontline, which basically means giving them enough rope to do what they want to versus thinking golic everything still needs to filter your Hans because you just don't have the knowledge that the process assumes you would have. percent. Anyway, that is everything on road mobster is a lot to it. It's probably like it is this sort of our form of PM because it's funny like designers can post shots to dribble and developers composed. So to get word can open source code. PM's are eating not left an awful lot of artifacts artifact. They can point to proudly because in a sense, they all kind of disappear and get turned into into like real things like actual software but I think the one thing every pm body needs to like have a strong grip on his. Where when, and why day roadmap? How it works? WHO's involved? Wackos in Wackos out headed, they follow a pattern to make sure that the outcomes commitments auto that sorta stuff and that's what we've been talking to today on in fact, over the last few episodes but I I think we'll leave it there for today. Thank you as ever Mr Paul Adams. Thank you does. Trainer and this has been intercom a product. Thanks for listening taker. Thanks for listening to the Intercom Product podcast for more content. Go to our blog at entercom dot com slash blog or subscribe to the podcast on Itunes, spotify soundcloud or stitcher.

facebook. US Vice President of product senior vice president of produ Paul Vezio Tacoma cure Alvarez Evren Kobe San Francisco Mr Paul Adams Paul Senator engineer Daphne Dot Karen David
We Are Like the Dreamer

Ghostwood: The Twin Peaks Podcast

1:26:33 hr | 9 months ago

We Are Like the Dreamer

"The change between hello again. Everyone welcome back to coast with the twin peaks. Podcast I'm one of your Co Host. Straw skaggs still in the basement of solitude because shakes FIST CORONA VIRUS. Looking at you crunch virus and join me of course is the wonderfully blue haired least temporarily. Blue haired ZANDT sprouse. How're you doing? Then you know that makes me sound really old right a little bit little bit when I when I when I was doing. How about navy haired will the now? It sounds like I have a buzz cut. It's true. Yeah just just say what money here. Which is what I look. Which is that. I looked like maximilian genius. Because that's what I was going okay. Maximilian Genius Maximilian. Genius haired Charles if you ever had a crush on a cartoon character. I'll never tell. Oh come on she tara we all know the case actually home you into the Doma now more it's more kind of like princess from battle the planet's that's a pretty good one or or Nova from Star Blazers get. That's a good one. Do you like that. I like women of Action. I gotcha I gotcha. So is star Blazers. Would they used in the In the Daft punk video was that was that Star Blazers. I can't remember that and I'm not sure what you're definitely. I don't think I've seen that one. What is the name of that Song One more time? Oh Okay I can't. I can't remember who that is it but Anyway so I have had a crush on a cartoon character in my lifetime ended maximilian genius from across Nice. So so obviously we've already digressed just like that. So because hey us. Yeah so so if you're looking for twin piano it's quarantine exactly it's coming where this is the pre pre game the pre Pre Show Kind of banter that we do when we're not actually. Texting twin peaks quotes back and forth to one another. Yeah we did that pretty well and just sort of did it off. The top of our heads didn't me I. I love that you did that. You she kinda messed everybody okay so she just kind of message me out of the blue. Because I'm pretty fifty four degrees slightly over. That's what I thought exactly so the weather. I WANNA I WANNA see. It was like a couple of days ago our Tuesday. Yeah so you know here we are. It may seventh and so this is may fifth twenty twenty and You know she kind of text me out of the blue and she's like it's fifty four degrees on the slightly overcast day with so. Of course I back you know. Weatherman said rain. If you get if you get paid be wrong and sixty percent of the time it'd be working it'd be working exactly so So yeah so I so I definitely picked right up on what she was doing and I knew I just thought it was like you know you just like you get me while I was driving and I looked out my car tells you the temperature and it was fifty four degrees and it was slightly overcast. Among there's not many people who could understand? Who would appreciate it the beauty of this moment? This is true so I'm one of the rare people in life. That would actually appreciate that so so she was kind enough to reach out to me. Neither put a smile in May face. Because I'm sitting here with my computer doing the work thing and I hear this go get the Little Message Ping and I look over and I'm just like that's awesome good. That was my first reaction. And then my second reaction of courses you know like a Weatherman said rain and Yep exactly so we did that for a little while and Actually posted the picture of a of a snippet of our conversation on on instagram. And then link that over to To twitter and facebook. If you want to check it out so we did a decent amount of it. I have to say yeah you need. Of course you know the conversation will end because hey cooper's little monologue in because the sense seeing there's a there's a scene transition so so. I kind of like I kind of cheated. Skip ahead to the end of the episode to to wrap it up because we got on the subject of Douglas. Firs like Yeah You. You made the comment about like okay so so you got to find out what kind of trees these are so. I skipped to Haley something. Skip all the way to the end. You know where where Cooper and Harrier sitting in his his police cruiser. And you know the and Cooper makes the comment like smell. Those trees smell those spurs. Yep that's awesome. So yeah that's what we've been doing it so light so lightly nerdy but slightly nerdy but what else. What else is new? It's quarantine so we're doing things like dying your hair crazy colors and watch it and just stuff on TV and not a whole hell little glee so I have I watch something very tangents. David Lynch EA That I highly recommend to people. Yeah we were talking about go a minute ago and all that that implies and I watched the Natalie Wood biography that's on HBO Right now. Oh how was that? It was very good and I really really enjoy did. And it's the Natasha Gregson Wagner interviews. A couple of people so again Tajiks and Wagner from lost highway right so if you are at all interested in the enigmatic Natalie Wood because she's fascinating a fascinating life and to hear them. Tell the story. It's just heartbreaking that anybody would make any sort of illusion that Robert Wagner killed her on that boat that night so okay so so. You're not in the Robert Wagner. Did It camp? I'm less in it now that I watch so after watching the documentary you. You're convinced that he's innocent. Yeah interesting yeah and there was. I was a little. I would have liked to have heard Christopher walken talk about it but he did not want to be a part of this. He didn't WanNa talk about it anymore. I think it's just hard for him. You know it's very he. They hadn't been friends that long in the first time they ever get together outside of work she does so. That's probably very wasn't the on the boat if I was on the I can't remember his name but somebody who was like at the caretaker of the boat while they were they had docked okay. I'm a little. I'm a little rusty on the story. So apologies if I get it wrong. Yeah so maybe. I need to watch the documentary. Hey I highly recommend it said. Natasha Wagner is very fascinating so I highly recommend watching it. All right that's good did you. The Rubber Wagner is married to Jill Saint John Now I had no idea interesting. Jill say John. If you're on fan you remember from diamonds are forever. Diamonds are forever young so I had no idea that they were married but interesting. I I see the those two hooking up it was hard to hard Austin powers and then it was two and a half men. I don't think about Robert Wagner all that much. It's an interesting career he said. Yeah exactly so but Not to mention the pink panther movies those I want to say that I try trying to remember which one he was in. I think he was in one like the good ones or the Shitty Martin ones not the Steve Martin ones. Okay I think train the maybe not. Maybe I'm very I'd have to look that up an MVP. And I'M NOT GONNA do that ear because hey we gotta talk about twin peaks stuff right. So Contact Panther relieve regularly panther out of. Yeah so The my little sort of related twin peaks thing since we last talked that Over the past weekend If you listen to Sirius. Xm their first first-wave Channel Channel. Thirteen Bowie all the time. It was like the boat is the David Bowie channel. And so you know what I'm talking about so like that was awesome right years. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah so it was pretty cool to hear a lot of stuff that That I don't have in the my Boeing so I've only got like a I've got a greatest hits and then I've got a few assorted albums. I don't have the complete collection. No we don't have the complete collection. Either we're trying. You know we have sounded vision. Big Collections but Ziggy stardust the spiders from Mars. Yeah you know. We're trying to get what we can get so yeah but so it got me thinking like yeah. I really would love serious. Made like a regular David Bowie channel. That would be amazing like I would. I would gladly sacrifice Jesse's Bruce springsteen channel for the David Bowie channel. I'm just saying I would sacrifice that Dave Matthews Channel for sure or Margarita. Ville or the fish channel. I know my friend. Aaron loves the Fish Channel Fish Fish Channel would be a good. You know what I never here on this channel. What fish it's like. It's always something other that some other jam bad. It's never actually fish so they don't have as deep of a But they should take dead where they have a good Jillian live albums as deep of a dist- discography all those bands. By the way I'm not trying to like sorry if I'm gonNA throw all your bands under the bus but if I'm now a choice I'm going to go with something I want right. The Elvis Channel to. It's like you turn the channel. There's no elvis on their Elvis Elvis. But I don't hear as much elvis as I would expect to hear on the channel. Same thing on the Beatles Channel Two I was GonNa say I hear as much Elvis as I do on the Beetle Beatles on the Beatles Channel. I'm what Zeppelin channel though that Zeppelin Channels Been Nice. I haven't I didn't wasn't aware there was Zepplin channel. It's one I forget what it is. Maybe it's like forty five or something like that you know how there's a classic rewind and then classic vinyl it's right after classic. Vinyl Okay Right. So That's interesting so Anyway today here episode Seventy Four. We are GONNA talk. We are like the Dreamer Aka twin peaks. The return part fourteen aired on August thirteenth. Twenty seventeen written of course Mark Cross David Lynch directed by David Lynch. You know that deal as it should be as it should be and You know we after you know last time we talked. This episode here is going to be something a little bit more of note because last week was the last time was was an hour right episode. But it wasn't that it's safe to say that we'd be kind of considered a little filler. Last week was like Oh my God come on with when we were first watching it. I mean I enjoyed it a little more or less. You know on on subsequent. Yeah they were. So it's between maybe episodes like yeah like between like eleven and fourteen that I'm like Oh my God it's getting so our be patient but Fourteen is where things kind of a bit because in this one that we're going to talk about is we. We do our regular commentaries that we've been doing hope you've been enjoying those by the way. So we get the introduction of the Topa concept we again we get the dream of David Lynch of Monica Bellucci. Nice which is a good one and of course we get share. Frank Truman and his deputies going out into the woods. All the way out to Jack Rabbits Palace and Jack Deputy Andy. Meeting a certain fireman. So if the indy like really Kinda step it up a little bit here we get the return of Naito and we get chatting to sell in the. That's the greatest thing. So we get the introduction of Freddie Mac rubber fist. I love Freddie McGregor fist. He's so great. So and if that wasn't enough kids Sara Palmer goes to a bar and I can't wait to F- with us and removes her face and when somebody else's throat he's pretty much pretty much so it's GonNa get real here so needless to say things you know. Kinda step their game up a little bit in this one so I think we're GONNA have a lot of fun talking about it. I think we'RE GONNA share. Forget a lot to talk a lot to talk about. Yeah picks up? We're not gonNA talk about Judy. We're going to keep her out of it or Joao as I don't know if you saw the post I put on our ghost would pay shit. I did yes that was. I thought that was rather clever so I thought I'd sure that I'll speaking speaking of that that I ask you if you enjoyed. Harriet hair. Yes you did. Did I tell you just you were kind enough to to post? That was awesome by the way came up the other day. My hair hair like good. Lord Lord the ninety s well props to you for owning that by the way well you know. Twenty thirty years of hindsight can make just about anything not embarrassing anymore. So that's good that shows maturity right. Yeah exactly so little bit of Trivia before we get started just very little okay so you know we get one of those little Wrote housings with Iran. Does the ROADHOUSE rondos again by? One of those ran does a character named Sophie. Way By an actress by the name of Emily Stowe full. Oh do you know why? Emily still is important to the world of David Lynch. Please tell us she's the current wife. The fourth wife I might add of David Lynch. He's been married four times four times four times four. Saddam remember him being married four times. Yep It's probably because it wasn't married he was going to school well played. Thanks I I did kind of try to emphasize the four times I ask for Car. I get four wives. How's that for being born under a bad sign? Yeah Isabella Rossellini. Of course not one of them because she was just as partner for a good one right but don't they have a kid together. I believe so yes I believe so. I don't know if you know this Charles. But Isabelle were Selena. And I were married briefly in the fifties that is that is an old old old David. Letterman joke like NBC. Era David Letterman. Joke so my favorite lead at that was for you. Scott Ryan my favorite era of Letterman Hack. Because of course you know the Harry Bud mill or Larry Bud Melman yes. Before he was calvert deforest. Yes which is actually what he's real name was but still to. This Day Andy Kaufman Andy coughing punched in the face by Jerry lawler and those really need to be available like the e the Ohio legend Harry Harvey Pekar having a nervous breakdown on Letterman of American SPLENDOR FAME OF AMERICAN SPLENDOR OF BEAUTIFUL CLEVELAND. Ohio thank you very much. Thank you Shaker Heights. I believe wasn't it? That sounds right. Shake Sugar Heights is a suburb of Cleveland. Yes so that sounds plausible. I'm sure it wasn't sure what it was apartment no to this day. If we're talking about Belarus Rossellini I can just say to my dad or my dad will say to me. I don't know if you know this and then we'll just start laughing and my mom would be like what the hell are you guys talking about and we're like we're quoting something from thirty years ago. I hope you enjoy it. So yeah. That's that's an old old David. Letterman joked about Isabella Rossellini. That's a good joke. Yeah but yeah. I don't remember him being married. Four Times okay well. This is according to unless wikipedia. Got It wrong but they kind of list each one's a pdf spent more time. Thinking about David Lynch's marriages than I have. So you'll give them doubt. Yeah I'm much more interested in his body of work than his personal life. So really right right which is frankly as it should be. I guess you have to. Meyer is a to keep on trying. I guess. Well he's just he's just a sucker for love. This is an invitation to love the flame of love. Oh my gosh the full blossom of the evening and we're back to Harry already. We're back to Harry. It see we brought that. We brought that conversation full circle everybody. Somebody's gotta remember. Harriet Charles. It might as well be us so you can have either talking digressing completely or we can have these nice little. Harriet discussions for everybody seriously. We can talk about anime characters again. Talk About Harriet. Yeah Yeah so. Take your take your pants all right listeners. Choice I guess all right so Got Her at the queued up. Presumably I do and mine and Smit's long as a stupid apple. Tv APP closed on me. Man I tell you. I got a free year of Apple. Tv No yeah that's Nice Year of Apple TV. But is there anything? Is there anything worth watching on it? Because I didn't see anything worth watching on it. Yeah that Beastie boys thing is frigging amazing. Oh there's alert. Here's a beastie boys like two men show monologue documentary type thing. It's fantastic. It is antastic. But yes apple. Tv free for one year with qualified purchase of a new IPAD. And I bought a qualified ipad so nicely done nicely done we were we. Were talking about the joys of free. Hbo Max earlier before we Hbo MAX IS INCLUDED IN OUR CURRENT. Hbo Subscription So. Yep Yep we're ready we're ready for adventure time exactly so all right so if you're playing a home game and I hope you are joining and right along with us I am currently at the one minute. Thirty four seconds. Mark the black screen of blackness. And now it's dark right so if you're everybody's ready we will do this in three two one press play doing own right. Buckhorn South Dakota and hotel phone. Apparently the only interesting thing going on in South Dakota. There's probably nothing going on right now. It's true good point. Very very at very observing. Yes you've been there all through the years Lucy. Well Yeah. This is a good job and it's a small town and I don't WanNa work for horns department store. One year we went to Bora. God why did you ask this question Gordon? Now I don't know about you but I cannot believe we didn't. This is the only like conversation we have between Gordon. Lucy I know we don't these two are like I thought they fit really well together and you would think those two characters would really click. Yeah it's a shame. They need to spend more time together. The one clinking right now. I know how to use the phone and I love sure. He's like yeah. Okay it's it's it's not Harry. It's the other guy his brother Frank Harry. He's he's not he's not in the show he's not doing so hot. Yeah because F cancer right. That's why well I got some chocolate bunnies and I like the frequencies hat in his office so disrespectful to his office. Maybe just a you know feels natural to him. He's bald invited. Anybody even remember that they'll be seen frank error. We've seen Robert Forster without the hat so I kinda doubt that he's not he doesn't have like Lynch's hair because nobody does. Who could. That thing is just envious. I think that's just you know. Leftover cat hair vitalis in palm aid. Right see this. Apparently apparently transcendental meditation gives. You really great hair guys. And it's that's that's a. That's a commercial for that right there. That's Anita Start Ever. You need ever. You needed a reason seriously. And the best to Harry. 'cause we miss him pretty much. You know we love you Robert a but we would have liked to have seen Michael on Keyna's will but since we can at least you know since we didn't get Michael Keane at least we got rubber forster right. We got rubber. I or or at least talking about I mean. He didn't not like he wasn't addressed. Yeah and it's not like he was killed or anything so the Pacific northwest has got some crazy stuff going on here pretty much. Yeah Oh God you know in real life right now with the murder. Hornets coming into the Pacific northwest. Like we don't have enough to worry about right now. We don't have enough problems. Ain't nobody got time for that. We're just GONNA have to walk around wearing face masks and carrying tennis rackets all the damn time. We're going to start wearing beekeeper suits. What are you talking about is Louis? I'm just gonNA wear a fencing mask. I'm like the Blue Rose. Start Wearing darth vader armor. What are you talking about seriously? I'm just going to say that. Tammy's Tammy's blouses a little to see through four Working hours they'll get is tammy actually posing as she sitting am I. Am I wrong about this? I don't think she's posing Kinda like art over to the side her his. She's leaning on the back of the chair. She's just she's just leaning on it see. Yeah but it just doesn't look like a natural relaxation pose. Well she's trying to sit up straight and lean at the same time but The hair if you're not honestly if you're not gonNA pull it back at least pulling it to the side is a little bit easier right so a blue rose doesn't occur in nature. Yeah because you know tonight real. I mean they're not like naturally made yes. No the only way you could make blue roses you take white roses and soak them in bluewater right. Yup Yup or you buy fake ones and you have them in your Living Room. Which time of course it's coffee. Time Diane's underway. That's good good imitation of squeegee. I can't do the feedback. I'm not GonNa do the feedback now. Don't do the feedback. Nobody needs to hear that. Yeah Per Gordon Cole. Right we do. We never get the story of what the deal is with his hearing like how he lost his hearing did we. I'm I'm going to say that it was in the firing range. Make Sense. But that's my theory. Or maybe there's like a bomb that went off nearby and something maybe was kidnapped by the. Ufo's maybe maybe. Does he have a birthmark Mesa triangles? It wouldn't surprise me if he did. Yep Deputy Diane Oscar award-winning ordered now. Yeah see this is A. I don't know you don't want to talk about it but can you talk about it a little bit. Yeah well they kind of got hip to her her texts so I think this is Dan trip her up here. Maybe maybe they're trying to see if she's very aware of and we know that Albertson. Skeptical of her from the get-go. Oh well yeah I mean is Al. Albert is Albert Not Skeptical Skeptical about anything skeptical scramble. Yeah that's easy for you. It's not actually to duckie with love Jeannie Jeannie It's what does that happen. What they wanNA find out something. We're going find out something very interesting right about here. Half sister still done. So but he's connected. So Cooper is finding himself attracted as duckie to Diane's sister. This is just a little weird this now getting into invitation to love. Type territory. Here wait a minute now just now. It's getting weird. This is twin peaks when you have like when you have like the same guy in two different bodies having sex the same with with sisters. It's just yeah. That's when it gets weird. Yeah yeah now to be fair. Cooper ended up dougie's body involuntarily involuntarily. Yes and so you kind of like trapped there. Because he's not really quite cooper yet. You still cooking. Did we ever determine if Diane and Cooper ever had consensual sexual relationship? I'd like to think that they did at some point. Yeah that would be nice. I hope they did. I hope for Diane Sake they. They have consensual sex at the end of this the return. But that's true they do even though. It's all kind of awkward and horrible. How is it awkward and horrible? Well you know Diane Wants Cooper to cover his face for one. Yeah there's that it is awesome. It's awkward. Yeah that's true. Yeah it's very awkward and he. Yeah it's not really exuding. A bunch of romance not like not like biggest norma. That's for sure not like bad. That's great that's a great love. Kinda like lacking a little passion there and also not sure how much you'd have to pay me to do a nude scene with my ex-boyfriend it would be a lot of money. Well to well you know. They might have covered bits two. I don't think he she and him are actually in the same room for a lot of that too. So you'd have to give me that purse I'd have to. I'd have to be able to keep the purse along with a huge salary right. I'm sure it was kind of creative. Directory Directing sure. Can you can do work wonders with camera angles? You sure can and shadows see and I love this part. Because it's and Monica BELLUCCI dream. I was watching the Matrix reloaded where she's percents. Oh my God I forgot about that. That's that's where I became a Monica Bellucci fan fair fair warning okay. I got up to that. If you're owning up to being a fan of the matrix reloaded in some form or another. That's pretty impressive. So it's better than the Matrix revolutions so much better than the Matrix revolutions. But then what isn't we? Listen to me like I've ever made a movie. You know who the Hell Am. I kind of interesting that the Matrix trilogy gets progressively worse with each movie. Well like reloaded was better than revolutions. But not as good as the Matrix and then revolutions was the worst. So it's kind of like the back to the future trilogy except except I would say this. The third one is better than the second one. I agree with that. I one three two with the future trilogy. Neither neither of the neither particularly good. I Love Them. I Love I love all three of them. See I think back to the future to as the most disappointing sequel ever seen. That's interesting because I waited so long for it and then it was just. It was too tense. It was it was way too tense back and forth back and forth back and forth. It was too tents and I'm sorry dreams. And then Liz. That is the absolute perfect description of David Lynch. I think yeah that pretty. I'm sure that's pretty much how that's exactly. That's like the personification right there of David Lynch and when you who is the dreamer well and think about think about his experience with making eraserhead and he slept on set. Yeah so he really does immerse himself in his in his dreams really would love to know if he keeps a dream journal. I it's called twin peaks de called the scripts. You're right exactly. That's how he has hearing aids in his dreams like even in his dreams. He's younger younger Gordon or in coal we were in a feature film. It was in theory for. I was worried about stay because of the dream I had February sixteenth. My Dad's birthday. Happy Birthday Dad. Yep So essentially Gordon or excuse me Phillip Jeffries shows up my dad's birthday so that was nice that. Hey David Bowie and your dad's birthday. That's pretty cool right. That's incredible now. This is one thing Phillip Jeffries. He wasn't there now. I love the fact that we're finally getting an explanation for the scene and fire. Walk with me. That's one of my favorite things about this series the return. Yeah yeah the return. Is that it really. It explains our walk with me. It validates fire walk with me so so much including the one seen in fire. Walk with me that I never liked. Which is the my name is Anne. I've been with with Dale and Laura Goodale is in the lodge and he can't leave right it in your diary and I just remember thinking. Was this a contractual thing with Heather Graham? That they needed to fulfill her contract fulfill her contract or something because it just seemed so tacked on but now it really makes a lot of sense and who just she's that would have been. That would have been me. You like the cheese Chad. Use the ladies room Chad busted bursted. It's about the fact that you're running drugs from Canada dumb ass and there was much rejoicing. say no. We're not this is. This is the best thing that has happened in the series so far exactly see if nothing else. It's worth watching this episode just for this just to see Chad get arrested Jake Badge and is gone. Okay right well hopefully. They did that before they locked him in the in the in the cell and his pants make around with no pants on xactly or make him walk around like do that. Little Shuffle. If with his pants all the way down by shoes Grey Mayor. She ate what she used to be. Wishing me well. Ghost would forest. It's like ghost. Would here by the way we are right there? In case you're wondering where we are goes workforce. That's it that's where we are that that right there that's for rebroadcast. From every every yes. I know you can't see what I'm doing so now I hear you. Oh all right. I love how they say. Emergency dial nine one who doesn't know that was like what's the phone number from those cop cars. Well especially if you dial one nine one nine nine so maybe they kind of keep it clarified for crack. Mom have you read or seen Doctor Sleep? I know of it. I have not seen the movie yet. I want in the beginning of the book. Danny Torrance has Danny Turin's has this one night stand with like a a drunk that he he wakes up and there's a toddler walking around. He's like Oh crap what have I stumbled into. He's he he needs. This woman in a bar goes home with her. And there's pills everywhere and stuff. He has no idea she has a kid. But there's a kid there so and that's what I think of when I think of crack on okay or meth mom or whatever. She is interesting. Yeah it reminds me of that scene in Dr Sleep Sleep. No I think you absolutely have to read the book because it's fantastic and you absolutely have to see the movie because it's also fantastic. The book is a sequel to the book shining. Yes in the movie is a sequel to the movie the shining right so I would probably get more out of the movie because I liked the movie version of the shining better than the book version of the Shining. Do you really do but I'm not. I'm not big Stephen King Guy. Okay like I. I've read some of his. I just find a little too long winded at times. Did you try to do? Is that what you did? Did you know no but but you know when I see you know the rights thousand page books. I'm just like now. Now you need serious editor my friend I understand. Well I love the book is shining and I love the movie the Shining and I love them both equally as different entities so So we're going to play it's called Jack. Rabbit staggers as. I call it jackrabbits slim's because I want a five dollar milkshake because you know what Charles who buzzed in each you pay for a deal. There's milk and ice cream that will put a bourbon that another frankly. That's a good deal on a milkshake. Milkshakes these days are like four ninety. Five easy buddy. Holly's not much of a waiter Marilyn Monroe section so apparently. This is where bobby hung out. When he was a kid with his dad with his dad. I want one of those backpacks twin thirst department on it. That's what I need. That's what I need in. My life is not being merchandised. Alice here. We are showtime store. Make that happen Camman people. I need to buy this stuff. I believe my husband told you to take me out and do whatever I want. I want to dance and I want that trophy. Swung that back to pulp fiction. You call something Jack Rabbit. Whatever jackrabbits slim's is GONNA come back? I'm sorry that's just how things work now. We just need a chuck berry singing. You never can tell. Seriously that is Maryland row. And that is mainly vendor and and I don't see Jayne Mansfield so she tonight off something. That would be a fun movie for us to watch together. I think that would be yeah. That'd be a good time. Were we were supposed to do that this year. I think at the studio thirty five but yeah that that shouldn't happen. No new P- new that plan just Went right down the two. Yes sure did. Yeah that was going to be the director series for twenty twenty. At least that didn't happen during the David Lynch year. Thank God yeah. 'cause we would have we. Would you know Charlie and Ray Wise we would have gotten no Scott ran or or mike either. Mike Greener wouldn't got to know those guys so he really should get them on the podcast. When these days? Yea I should get off my ass and do a lot of things but you know it's fourteen but that requires effort. Yeah you're not big on the effort. No I'm just really depressed. So it's hard for me to motivate myself thaw limb. Sorry what are you going to do? I'm wearing wearing address with elastic so I don't have to wear a bra today. So that's you know that's a win. That's a win for today. There you go. It's addressed to wear a Brian so no bra and technically no pants. This is a win win day. This is a small victories. You get those small victories. Yes baby steps some days. You get those. So they're still just walking through the woods kids. Well we're you know we're a path is formed by following one stone at a time. Yup C. C. rates smoke in the woods is Jerry. Ford's is jerry horns stone. The forest is Jay Horns still there. Yeah they're smoking. I don't know where my car is in the woods and a naked lady lying on the ground and Jerry. Horne is nowhere to be found. Something is wrong. Exactly Lucy. We need the Jerry Horne right now right now. Oh look at that look only NATO seat night does kind of terrifying Dick with her is Sonos sealed shut. Yeah that's of kind of terrifying. Somebody give her a coat. Please or thing right you would think she got four guys. They're none of them are taking off their jackets. I know what's up? Oh what am I? What do we have here? The golden is the Golden Pool. We've seen that before. Y'All see not the not the black oil not the oil. Yes something. This is golden. This is Something a little different. So maybe maybe the entrance to the white lodge perhaps. Perhaps I don't know bobby. Take off your jacket. It's two fifty three fellas but then I have to remove my backpack. And it's you know faint electrical crackling ten forty four tech's directly into the war tax. You guys it's all swirly. So is that a southern hemisphere or northern hemisphere vortex clockwise clockwise is within hemisphere. I believe okay. Counterclockwise is Southern Hemisphere. 'cause like Australia that's what they get. They go backwards. That's how I remember. It takes so much more water to do that than the sink like. I can't tell you how disappointed I was. You know what happens in Australia? They have this efficient toilets. What happens when you flush the toilet there? It all just goes down really should. It's so disappointing. Was the first thing I wanted to do when I got to Australia. Do that. In the sink kind of but it's not enough water. It just sort of like it all just sort of drains. So that's weird. Yeah I think it would be more like if you had a whirlpool situation. Hoop what is gone. Where did any Andy? Andy finally gets to do some stuff. Anyone oh like black and white now andy. Looks even more like Stan Laurel than he did before being in black and white I mean now you need to like the firemen doing like an Oliver Hardy twiddling his tie. I mean I love Steve Coogan. And everything like that. But I'm sorry Harry goes should have been Stan Laurel in that movie. Yeah I mean he's not he's not British but still he's got the physical writedowns Scott. The physical look for it. Yeah definitely so and these two. I don't think ever were together in the previous series. Not at all. This is so this is. This was completely out of left field. Even for Twin Peace Perry these two characters up together but I love that Andy has now suddenly a player in the major mythos. I love it. The major story absolutely love it live long and prosper firemen peace peace out just a reminder curl story is in. Doctor Sleep so when I talk about Dr. Sleep it is Tangential Lynch related. That's good so which you got atmospheric wishing very faint electrical scratching. I loved these subtitles for the David Lynch sound effects. Right the subtitle ship. You like. It's Lynch you know. Just yeah something weird. David Lynch's David. That's exactly what it should say. David Lynch noises industrial eraserhead noisy. This Hashtag David Lynch noises Davidson so that happened. Now look at that anybody else getting like a kind of Hans family vibe. Considering Carol struck in this scene well house rather live in frankly. This one's got a theater. That creepy cookie altogether the addams family erico experiment. Yeah here we have the the government Bosnia with Bob in it yet. So essentially Andy is getting the highlight reel. Yeah it is getting the. This is the This is the cliff the youtube recap video version. This is the crash. Course the woodsmen go late. I will say you know what would have been nice in this series. What you're gonNA PROC now. As one of the woodsmen he was in a fire. Walk with me right doing interesting. Cool his little thing on screaming girl. I looked at screaming girl was there. She's a part of this. It's like wait what she's connected it's all connected so it's like now. I WANNA know screaming. Girls deal the angels Angels World Save You. Here's NATO and years where we left off. You should go back indy. And give her your coat dammit. Yeah seriously now and is figuring. Oh there's two cooper's to Cooper's when's Kevin Creepy? Here's a really long Bong Bacher. Buttercup I love you nailed that one perfectly. Yeah seriously I can't stop her. You guys at all. She's too good sometimes. It can too good. I think our sweater looks like it has Sushi on it. Yeah little bit either way. I like it. So how does Lucy factor in interesting Lucy factors in somehow poor naito well or just invest for somebody else? Well just you know Speller named backwards and you'll figure it out Diane or Yeah O. D. I a. n. spelled backwards It's right there. It's right there we missed it and your release somebody waiting for like. Andy's head to pop you know like in the lodge. Yeah you're pretty calm for somebody who cries all the time. This is pretty terrifying stuff saying you would think but he is. He is older now. He's older he's seen some more mill he's been placed. Yeah he's he's already been places he's been one place. At least we know. Yeah that's true Bora Bora this for after that left. Turn it albuquerque. Should have made sure that. Yeah right should. It made that left. Turn it albuquerque. Now I love how Andy steps up right here like this really weird experience with the firemen and now all of a sudden eighties in charge. Yeah and she's like you know what we're doing this. I gave her my code. We're going home. Don't tell anybody anything. At least Andy took his coat off. Indies fricken gentlemen steps up made the right move bobby sitting there thinking. I killed a guy out here wants didn't I? What's this like empty football? Yeah why don't why am I scared of Santa Claus? I would love it if you would have found that football in the in the woods seriously. Yeah the football. There would have been great man. Oh my God what's wrong. I don't don't ask me questions Harry. The less you know the better. Yeah seriously I don't need this to screw up my 401k. All right yeah seriously. I got a kid now. And she's addicted to heroin. So I need some. I'M GONNA need my health plan. I need security instability right now. Let's not go down that road shut up Chad. He's no kind of cop who's the one behind bars. Who's judging who's a good cop at all? You know. I mean you're Chad. How do you know anything right? Chad showed up Chad Chad. You're very bad person Chad. He's Chad he's Chad. You know it use the Ladies Room Chad. You tell them drunk guy and is getting so laid tonight totally totally. Oh my goodness. You brought rescued that woman. Who's in distress in? Oh you're my yep totally you told Chad and you took charge right. Yeah exactly stuck his finger in his face. Yup Yup this guy. This guy bothers me with his drooling. A little monkey sounds that kind of little trip. Yeah beat me. I can't look at saliva right so I got saliva problems I understand. Do I really want to know why his face is all like impaled there I the spike any. I know that's about as good as we're GONNA get so we might as well just stick to that. Charges could just go to sleep Chad. You totally deserve this right now. You deserve so much more. You should be right. You know should be in that place in Buckhorn House a mad house. Has I know Damn Salta Hill. Tell me when this is over. Look at. He's being himself. Your your solutions. Yeah it's just way too much for me that's interesting you can handle the urine there. Meet Wealth agree. I don't know what it is. Yeah blood urine feces. Everyone handle it but please introduce. Let's welcome Freddie Mac to twin peaks Freddie Mac rubber fist. Yep played by Jake. Worl fantastic with his own. His own built in nutcracker for for Zanu was love at first sight I just love this character. He's so great cracker nuts for your ready. We have. We have somebody kind of wanting to chime in on the discussion here. We'll okay cow. Who's a good girl sweetie? Oh I hear her yeah I know right. She's a little grumpy. He's killed Michael. Keiko everybody see so. Apparently James End up with a security guard Job James He. He traveled around while and then He. He wound it back home with a steady job. And right you know good for James. He's trying to get his life on track after Awkward Prison Experience. Yeah the prison experience and like you know trying to murder somebody else's white or somebody else's husband right so man. I remember being twenty three. Yeah barely I barely remembering twenty-three Happy Birthday James Imprisonment twenty three. That's what you're saying is probably saying seriously is really cageless cracks more nuts. Yup also. What is it Christmas where we were cracking nuts? Why don't we just eating shelled nuts already? He just wants to show off that rubber fist. I think that's it. Yeah that's the deal. I have to demonstrate how powerful it is by cracking nuts. Take it off once and it took my skin off at. Least he's not called a Freddie nutcracker that's true imagine though what he could do think of how many nuts you could crack he could. He could really really hurt. A Guy May as well tell me if I'm not going to believe you already told me a story. It's my birthday. We set up the cameras to film this. You might as well tell it. I'm sitting back on the dock watching you crack nuts with your rubber gloves. You can tell me the story sitting back of the duck cracking walnuts with the glove black rock so once upon a time I was going down to pump. Turn down this alley as a shortcut and Jack The ripper. Was there a weight right? Jimmy Jimmy? It's like Jimbo Jim. Rama Cube Ever James Man. They can cut me crack and well all of a sudden. I got sucked into a vortex see. I'm wondering you know what I wonder is is the alley. He went down one of those one of those days in that Alan Moore says in from. Hell is part of this part of these. You know you remember the lines because yeah because it's been too long since I've read that. I don't remember exactly chapel being part of the Lions. Yeah I wonder if that's where he Interesting we'll see. We'll see down the ten bells when he went to the pub that night. Which is I just. I just watched that movie last week by the way. I don't think I've I think I've maybe seen that movie twice. It's great I love it. I've I've read it like hey. It's twin peaks related because of Heather Graham Graham thank you yep heck yeah so there you go. It's it's related connects in matters. You know who's never been in. David Lynch thing is Ian home. Seems like he'd be good for a David Lynch thing right. Yeah Yeah and sure enough. There's an open package with one right glove in it so put it on ever took it off again. We won't talk about what we to talk about what he did with the Club on. But well after you saw what he did with walnuts. Would you really want to do that? That's a good point. You want to risk that. Excuse me yeah yeah seriously right. Yeah think about things like that Charles true. This is true important safety tip. Thanks he gun. That would be extraordinarily bad. Don't cross the streams why it would be bad. I'm dying this glove or the leg are not walked towards the door then a to talk the accent and moved on. Because I'm telling a story about London town do my best. Dick Van Dyke. I am man but is there a worst British accent there? I really don't think so. I have yet to hear one and I've been to London twice while you're going to hear good British accents in London. They're real and I watched doctor who and Monty Python blackadder and hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy for ever since I was a kid. So yes those are all actual London accents their actual British accents. I know people have put on some bad fake ones but I think vandyck the takes cake bad fake fake rish accent. He's got the most iconic horrible British accent Yes yes absolutely. The defended the definitively bad magin from from London. Yeah go to twin peaks Washington. That is so far dude right because you're not only talking to five hours just to get across the pond you're talking you're hearing like eight thousand miles right you gotta you gotTa go from what. New York all the way out to to Seattle airport presumably and then and then take a puddle. Jumper Front two twin peaks presumably. I would just ran a car. Stop the lamp lighter in gets by. Exactly you know damn good food. Do you ever get up that way. The Cherry pies worth stops and now I'm thinking we need to text here. We are again here. We heard. Yes why not you might as well that just brings two days full circle and he got to come here for free right. That's good which is nice which is good because that's probably like a nine hour flight. Check the furnace or else it's going to be. We're back to the shining again. Not Check furnace so seriously. I would just spend all day squashing things right like can I can I? Oh you know what I would do pulls ran three and take a piece of coal and turn it into a diamond. Pardon my French but if you stuck a lump of coal gas two diamond. I think it's a little awkward though. That's like the ultimate nerd thing to be very awkward to to give a woman a diamond ring that you're not asking to marry you right you know. So here's James. Presumably setting up the disappearance Diane and Cooper. Yea Pretty much with this right or resist. Lead us to I'm trying to remember if this leads us to Phillip Jeffries. Either way something. Something's not right in the bowels of this It's dark and Creepy Jack. Torrance's down there just frigging CALC. You wrong wrong. Sorry but it worked out pretty well does it. You're thinking of one. Two Freddy's home for you three four better lock the door. There's door yeah Yes elks point. Never Die Bar. So here's Sarah Palmer going for a little dinky. Because apparently she enough at home. She has to go out for it. Well you know she killed the delivery boy so who's going to bring more boost to her house. This is true. She probably drank everything in twin peaks. So now she's got to go elsewhere for alcohol. Sometimes you just need to get out of the house. You can only watch the same. Eighteen seconds of boxing match similar over and over and over exactly. Yeah only watch that so often. Well you know. It's good to see her getting out and meeting people. Yeah she needs to meet some New People. Meeting people eating people whatever taken off their faces. Only back hurts. Because I'm old now now. You're not old. I'm I feel old. You're not old. It's been over twenty years since I was twenty three. It makes me Hild. Well it's been over twenty seven years since I was twenty three so I got you point. That's a good point. It's not the years it's the mileage south ears. It's the mileage wise words from Dr Jones. No time for love. Dr Jones time for left touch. I want to do this. I just want to go into a bar. Were newly knows being order bloody Mary just free other people out. Sometimes you wanted to go where everybody knows your day where nobody knows name. And they're indifferent to whether or not you cain and all the truckers want hit on you for some weird reason or still your If you WANNA go where all the mugs have some for not quite sure. What's going on there with those set a chicken or like a seagull stuffed in the corner there. I don't know I can't tell us a little smaller back there. It's like A. It's like a little tiny -sego in the corner doubt below the never noticed the antler coat hope coat rack right awesome because hey it's the Pacific northwest. Of course gotTA HAVE. This goes trek classy shipped truck. Yeah Yeah so truck you guy in for a rude awakening here also. Is She drinking in the past? Like I don't know anywhere in this country where you can still smoke in a bar right actually. That's not true. There are some bars there. That are like clubs. You have to help. You have to pay a membership fee and you can smoke in them will think about it after what we see here. Are you gonNA tell Sir Palmer? She can't smoke in the bar. I'M NOT GONNA F- with this. Do you WANNA F with this. No I don't Wanna F with this so serious get my drink. Syrup Palmer can smoke wherever the hell she wants. Seriously I like. She's she seems like she's being very timid right. But this is not gonNA. This is not going to end well for you. Mr Truck you gross with the with the subtitles. So even if he wasn't classy enough with the truck you he's got to drop. The bomb reminds me of that and then called her a dyke episode of Family Guy. Where where quagmire cost cross country? Something in Brian's shouldn't country have a win? It nope gross. Yeah you know what she's going to eat your face. I'll eat you up. You sure about that. They're sparky yeah. You know what I would really like it here. If there was some crazy woman that came in bars. And just did this to all the jerk guys. That now made the comments the first time we saw this. Or we're like what's YEP. Yeah do you really want f. This his Chara just she's she warned you. She said she didn't. You just ate your throat out. Take up by that a crime yeah and then scream to cover it up. Well you know. I don't know he just fell over. I was drinking my drink. That's one have a bloody mary. That's the seriously bloody bloody Mary and you know what she doesn't have blood in her hand. She doesn't nothing she. Yeah exactly. Did she do that without getting blood anywhere except on the floor there? It's just pretty impressive. Because she's Magic. We'll see about this 'cause you ripped his throat out it's a mystery and if no blood on you zing she is. She's so wonderful so apparently frog moth has grown post throats. Hungry like Hungry Jack. Hungry hungry hungry where our guest? This week will be fish. Wish and Purr purr grossed okay so there is David Lynch's current wife right there in the plaid in the Platte. Yes did not know that that that is Emily Stouffville all right cool so now you know in no. He's half the battle Kodjo. Gigo roadhouse ran. Does a you got a better description. Because I don't roadhouse Rondos in color I would love to know like what is it. David Lynch pick up line. Oh what what. What are we talking about? Have you seen billy no not for a couple of days? Is One of these. Is One of these lovely Ladies Tina? I've heard now. Actually the other one is named Megan. So where's Tina? Whereas Billy is maybe is maybe Tina her mom where she says. I'm in the kitchen with. He's with me. And my mom. And we see Billy at the window. And here's like pulling the yarn across the room to tie this to this and this to this to figure this out The Big Board Murder Board. We're still never GONNA know. We're going to figure this out if you can decode this. Please write to us. It goes through at coming out of nose in the mouth and he goes to hangs his head in the sink. So is billy the guy that's in jail. That's what I kind of wonder. Yeah that's my. That's my yeah. He's real strange and bloody right both the back against see. I'm wondering if billions the guy in jail. It would make sense right. I mean I don't there can't be a better explanation at least not that. Here's to billy. Here's to billy that is Jack. Paul has got good taste. Yeah yeah he and my mom so I think her mom is Tina. That's interesting yeah so I think you're right. Yeah that's my. That's my guess. Her Mom is Tina. Fey Bay a better explanation for this. Please like again right to us. Package EMAIL DOT com. Yes see I'm right that's done in. Tation to love will return next week. She's like Colombo just one more thing just one thing so you folks have a nice night now. I don't remember Columbus. Oh It's isn't it? I think that's Macleod. Mcleod all the same thing. Yeah the mystery movies Sunday night this the NBC and that was a cool theme. Yes Ye- kind of showing be especially but yes I was. I was actually a big quincy fan. I like Quincy loved his show his his. Don't don't go to Sam. Leave him out of this quincy home. We're on the ball so the so the. Mc is really into lizzy you guys. Because he doesn't get excited for anybody else. I know and you would think this excited for Z. Top but even top eating at the success for seriously what is David Lynch's Okay cupid profile. Look like that's my question would be an interesting one when it probably you know. David Age seventy four. I am the dreamer who lives in his own dream. But who is the customer? Yeah or David. Lynch's dating profile. That would be awesome. Healers certain private message doesn't send you a dick pic picture of the experiment. Like you WanNa see something cool. I've been married four times but the owls are not what they seem. They're not what they seem now. I mean that's the thing I mean. It's not you know I'm not. I'm not judging that he's been married four times. I just didn't I didn't know he been married like I didn't know he was when he was married again. I know he's he has the he has a kid with her right right. Well know there was the first wife or when he was making a racer head. Yeah but apparently there's that I don't know up of my head to sons okay. I'm not wild about it. It's not one of my favorites and if I were in a bar I would enjoy myself right you know because you could feel the vibration and everything I mean. It's not a bad bar song and stuff. So see even billy if it is the only credited as drunks creditors drunk. So we're just GONNA we're just GONNA. That's my stirring up sticking to it that that's I'd say go with it. That's my I don't have a better explanation now. that's my theory. Sticking to it go for it yep playing the Bass Lake is a very important dedication coming up. Yes look at that guy planned the Tony Levin Bass style Let's see well. I don't know which one but the other band members are Eric Sullivan Louis. Keller and Jesse Sieben Berg. I don't know yeah look the Bass player he plays. Bass like Tony Levin interesting all high up like that photo Kim fields in Washington state heck yeah is three miss the we miss the dedication air. It is now in memory of David Bowie. Everybody yeah I Miss David Bowie so much. At least we have is music to remember him by F. Cancer. Y'All right yeah seriously. Okay so David Lynch's otherwise K. I just looked them up so I one as we end the episode so I hope everybody enjoyed that first. One was Peggy lentz and they in one thousand nine hundred ninety four then the second one was Mary ships in some of his short films. Right yeah early on. Yeah one is Mary Fisk. They got married in the seventy six and sisters Jack pissed right right and then you were married for ten years. Divorced Nineteen eighty-seven. I wonder I wonder why so. Well I'll tell you exactly why because he was partners with Isabella Rossellini was just GonNa say. I think there's an Isabella Rossellini situation going on eight. You know they started being partners in nineteen eighty six year before he got forced so you can connect the dots on that one. I'm sure maybe they maybe they were having a hard time in he. You know but Anyway so obviously so he was were that lasted till ninety one and then he doesn't get married again until two thousand six to marry Sweeney so another Mary. Oh yeah yeah that's right and they married like two years weren't they know they got divorced the same year two thousand six. Oh so yeah okay. I knew it was short and then he married Emily. Stowe full in two thousand nine and they've been married ever since I've been married ever since and they have a they have a son correct. I believe so. Yes yes because I believe their son is who is in David Lynch the art life. So apparently that's. Emily is the one he's been married to the longest. Yeah Yeah doing the math here. We go so so maybe this is it he found love was to love because we even within a tween but who is the Duma? Who is the tweet math? Yes exactly Peter. There's something wrong with me that I think he's the best looking guy in the princess bride. Peter Cook I love Peter Cook so much even more than carry always like one hundred times more than carry always. I've I've never heard that statement ever from anybody. I am not a carry always girl. Okay if you gave me you said okay you can. You can pick a guy from the princess bride. Not Even Humperdinck. Humpity not even try really in the world sometime. No Pick Peter Cook and then I would pick Christopher guest interesting. I I adore I think. Christopher guest is just so dreamy Christopher. Yeah but I don't I don't Cook. I'm so I'm kind of missing that one. Well think about young Peter. Cooking Young Peter Cook was like a George Harrison. He was adorable interesting. He's funny he's handsome. He's the whole package. I'll take your word for it. I Love I love Peter. Cook so much. I'm not on that one but I'll take your word for it. Have you seen bedazzled Charles? Have you seen it? No Oh my God you have to watch bedazzled. It's so good thoroughly right now. The original one with Peter. Cook and Dudley Moore. Oh Okay Yeah. It's A. Peter. Cook plays the Hurley character. He plays the devil. Okay and no. It's it's it's Peter. Cook as the devil and Dudley Moore as I forget what his character's name is in he's in love with Eleanor Bron. Okay trump From Towers Fawlty Towers to which she in Fawlty Towers. Oh wasn't that woman who does he now after. Look this up. I can't believe I'm looking this up on the PODCASTS. Sorry everybody well you know. Now everybody gets learn. I Know Ellen Ellen Bron she was in. She was an absolutely fabulous. Maybe that's why I'm confusing her with. Because they know she was. Oh Oh that's why all right so this is why confusing her because she was in doctor. Who In city of death with John Cleese? Okay that's what you're thinking. That's what I'm thinking of. Sorry everybody that's my. That's my bad. My bad yeah. Eleanor Eleanor Bron. From from Hell. Yeah yeah so okay got it. Try and keep it all right so I hope everybody enjoyed our episode. Obviously a little better than last times Going on a lot going on little things getting connected here in their notice. Cooper's not in this one I know you see his face but he's not in it which gets credited but he's not even in the damn episode you see his faces but that's it. Yeah exactly so. Maybe act in the episode. Because it's February sixteenth. Remember I was worried too about hectically in this episode. You're right that's incorrect it but but as Doug he's not in episode or or or Mr Seat you see an image of him as MR CNBC and Wendy's vision. Yeah but that's that's about it. Yeah so so. What do you give this one rating? Wise I this eight. And a half pulverized walnuts figuring. You had to do something Freddie McGregor fist. Yeah so I'd like this with a little bit more than you. I give it a strong nine out of ten dreamy Mainali couple who cheats. That's a good one. Yeah this one does lose some points for not having a lot of Kyle mclachlan but it gets a lot of points for advance. Shit Law and a half. Yeah and it gets a lot of points for having that scene with Grace Zabriskie which is amazing. Because not only is she just terribly bad ass but she rips the face off of a potential rapist right so good mall for that. Good female empowerment movement. There I am all for ripping the face off of off of potential rapists right exactly or truckers with that keep dropping see bomb that dropped the bomb and who are bigoted against the LGBT community? Right there you exactly good point as everybody should be so No feedback once again. So I'M GONNA make my weekly IRV biweekly plea for everybody. Hey drop us a line drop. It's online during quarantine. We're lonely pretty much so we know you've got the time out there to To at least you know. Send us a little Message or what have you? It doesn't have to be long. Just drop us a quick line and if you are essential thank you very much for everything you're doing and I hope that we are making your commute your work day a little a little better exactly. Hopefully as we as we we try really hard to entertain here so so hopefully we are so but so if you WANNA drop us a line in please do write to us at what podcast gmail.com the Jeanmaire at goes. We're podcast gmail.com or you can be to write to us on twitter at goes for cast on twitter or on facebook at ghost with the twin peaks. Podcast where you post little You know twin peaks memes and Nuggets Nuggets Little tidbits and whatever related interesting things we find along the way so we keep trying to share that ZANU before sign this stay healthy. Wash your hands and stay the hell out of Michigan. That goes without saying since we're from Ohio but no I have never subscribed to that crap of not seeing the letter m. and stuff like that but right. Michigan is full of Morons. Apparently right now so well not not so much the governor but the people who tend to storm the governor's mansion and whatnot were armed to the teeth. Those people or the or the ones who shoot people shoot security people at stores because they disrespected them by asking you to wear a mask so yes. Wear a mask when you go out. Wash your hands stay safe. Take care of yourself. Don't shoot anybody. Don't shoot any stay. The hell out of Michigan Right. Yeah everybody stay safe please out there especially since a lot of states including Ohio starting to open back up. Yeah it doesn't mean you have to go out if you don't if you don't have to stay home. Yeah and it's you not drink lysol do not inject Lysol. Do you not drink bleach and do not take fish tank cleaner. Because it doesn't work we shouldn't have to tell you this but we should and I would hope that anybody listen to podcasts. Darty would know that stuff by now. It's just you know. Take care of yourself. I like to think we have a smarter audience than that. I I am from. We are from Ohio. So let's quote the former mayor of Cincinnati. Take care of yourself and each other exactly so everybody stay safe. Stay smart and then come on back next time for our BIG GHOST. Would episode seventy five seventy five or diamond jubilee? All exactly as we discuss. There's some fear in letting go there's some fear and letting go. Yeah it start. It's starting to get real here kids. It's episode fifteen exactly so we're heading into the home stretch and Cooper's return is finally around the corner you can almost smell it as Dougie has a nice lovely little encounter next time with an electrical socket electrical socket and then Cooper is going to come back and there's going to be sandwiches and dogs or cats living together. Master asked hysteria exactly so everybody. Thank you so much for listening to our pockets. We really appreciate it. Please tell your friends about. If you're so inclined we would definitely appreciate that and Please come on back up. So seventy five right here on coast with twin peaks. Podcast give by everybody agent on.

David Lynch cooper Frank Harry Harriet Charles Diane Jack Deputy Andy Chad Chad Lucy I Gordon Cole Robert Wagner David Bowie bobby HBO Scott Ryan Pacific northwest Monica Bellucci Natasha Wagner Maximilian Genius Maximilian
RHLSTP Edinburgh 2019 15 - Fern Brady & Josie Long

Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast

1:01:30 hr | 1 year ago

RHLSTP Edinburgh 2019 15 - Fern Brady & Josie Long

"Hello ladies and gentlemen was just nice little poison and that was fun. Welcome to the used. Please welcome a man who is worried. The al murray might be the new messiah via. Take this. It's it's a podcast. Some people get confused recording puzzle go out tonight. <hes> hopefully is richard herons leaving second trimester podcast. It's sort of metaphorical so i am putting on some weight as well hope we will disappear after edinburgh. It's long slog. This is the second week the over this one more week to go. I've already hotel in carla the drive home with night of the last just to try and drive with two young kids fucking nightmare i was i was talking to ross him on my walk everyday as an insurance salesman housman as every day the same places have been a problem the pavement boy where he is only getting my now i want to punch him the first one of these days but he calls esta reference very few people 'cause i might walk here most of my material i buy i own my grace is walking walking in the game and looking to kids on my walkie i- pasta a big poster of online longer on the refrigerant leases posted up to the restiveness the one just coming down to grasp market down from ray fries bobby dan wine debate. It's got genuine blood coming coming out of his eyes. I someone was just happened to be bleeding needs to that police. Go out do this blood on this which we quite on someone else's blood or our marines jesus as those are the only two options. I'm going to start a worshiping just in case <hes> <hes> terrible sleep last night off so it's like a sleep deprivation. Experiment is aligned to make me brilliant terrible fingers crossed this was going to go the news in the news ninety routine by this people bring three nine thousand nine hundred batteries engineering nine nine nine hundred emergencies and there's one on one is nathan ring as well someone on that get us some police business. Someone rang nine nine nine to say i bought chicken. Yesterday i just opened it in the smell is patriots. If i pay the petrol send a car to help me take note guy someone else seen a dog with a missing for nine nine one one with that. I think they give short shrift. That's going on news that when that comes up from somebody else i wanted to talk to you about out aw i mean. This is just boring stuff. My daughter said i was trying to trying to trick my door came home from the pockets now literally came out and and there was two donuts in the fridge and and she's come back to been promised at donau in our sariyannis while your i._r._a. Both she's believable. We non-acceptable sugar. She went now. You didn't say that they should be donuts would be safe so i know you haven't even the donuts i said i did and then among the the match meeting the trick jason. I didn't trick for it. Might drink remain really aggressive. Make any trickery mike. That's when you catch up decided so my last guest today. Thanks so much cheap terrific horrific guests only one of them's here. She may be on for a long time. The other one is dropping. Maybe some hopefully with another human being just just just off castle tenements my best cast no compla- me on this stage of the fringe <hes> ah i guess today is probably best known for being the bathgate rotary club young musician of the two thousand and one hispanic suspend brady ladies and gentlemen you want to be all it just yeah glasgow which eleven london and everyone likes them from glasgow because you're so aggressive if that's what that's what it is ten and i work healthy so so tell us about the winning the roach. Would you play piano create sex. Maybe grade seven year off the french last last year and a gop start playing again but i did do a geico back a couple years ago with a bombed really hard and i think it was because i decided to open by saying i was bathgate. Rory clubs young musician of the year. I was like you probably recognize me from this and then they hated hated me so much the go taken out of the back of the theater and then there was a women on the front say going share watch shy shot. Gosh it was genius. Oh jesus attack ed mcglasson thing very rotten teeth upset that very carefully taught me wearing ah very provocative poster. I've a i've just had braces stuff soon. Thanks we'll push every day. You take the phone. There's a large poster well. It had them endure that they'd been some airbrushing. No i doubt not now be brushing my teeth red eye. Ah yeah thanks based on the london very healthy post the lightning. I've spent on them so thanks for tennis. Throughout the truth based show this well no i'm clemson edison and my posts turco's women get to smile all the time so that's why i'm sorta grimacing and also don't like government <unk> taken so <hes> i was trying to think power could relax because always looked quite constipated a booster for us and then i had some <hes> like ecstasy the house leftover from my and i don't know why everyone the after the acts like this really all but to me. It just seemed practical. I saw a picture to my cellphone ecstasy on my third and i never liked pictures of myself and now for a look radian other day radiantly beautiful because i feel happy on ecstasy. Why don't you take four my poster for our wouldn't tell my agent or the photographer 'cause they will be like doc basic bitches about where we were doing the i went and took the drugs and then i came back out and within minutes minute like my eyes were like saucers and they thought they were light. Well these are great shots and then remember the makeup artist hugging me to leave. We've just was like she feels so good. An agent went to hug me and i was like don't touch me. I don't wanna feel that way about you. The posters film it yeah. You did very very muckleshoot. Congrat- i'm going to try to do heroin extremist the first cracking. It never coming back here. <hes> so ah this written down here august at this is this is a tweet from august the twelfth of yours. You can tell i'm having a good fringe because yesterday was the first time i knew in cried and told the audience i was going to kill myself after the show. Every other year happens day three incredible. How are you feeling how you got. Larry johnson my voice when completely earlier this this week and i thought it was going to have to cancel the show. We can't really do that so a winter winds up private g._p. Never done before nordic parsh- but that was the one thing we could get these steroids. Give voice back money to the show and i can't. I don't know why for the audience won't be that much. I told you i had they were just grateful to slick dot the way our shot cancelled the people who were eighty nine hours a day ten hours a day resent people who work for the week. They don't know how hot our lives off. Yeah never never be drunk the whole time yeah. That's a fair point. They were just like eight or tina's jets but i thought why is so so the data i was tailing the insoles going to kill myself. The booker from kuhnen was ed farewell american dream. A total of america did did one of your team which was a lie was talking. The american was knocked waking the n._f._l. Can code bad kids and the san fernando valley the happening apparently well. Those things take ages to go through. I bengals go see about cryan. Asthma lewis point of the french last night where only just started getting recognized by for comedy forget how reported but more during the french because of posters and stuff so last night. I just wanted to cry after the show but it won't people be like oh. There's that comedian it in a toilet and cry for our cause what happened. I'll tell you what happened to the shootout night. There's lots of warnings mushoo hugh about scenes sexual nature scenes violence will dissuaded all these warnings so that people doing comic offended by accident and dude dude pro-choice jokes abortion jokes. The largely been go awhile then last night. There was a pregnant woman on the audience who treated my abortion jokes <unk> as if i wanted to kill harpej and just sat looking at me rubbing her and it audible audible back in a couple of years ago now. I wanna kill the his well. So when you're pregnant thing is going to be great especially if it's not pregnant. That's the that's the best so you routines company. I got this is ever actually happened before. I know you were working. The journalist and you're working on facts magazine paper looked reviewed thinking how great if you only two people have given bad reviews tale of setup awkward run ins with and what they remembered because i can remember who reviewed me infests snow fence the fast but no i never did but you did the thing that every journalist happened every edinburgh which gentlest decides to have a have a little goat comedy to see what it's like. Oxygen is absolutely excellent compatibility quite good king things well not up the thing that i wanted to stand up for ages before that so it was kind of hanging around goma dave bowers really shy before that stand up so if era ghetto was well like ten years ago if you said the people what to do standup <unk> like before i was mentally ill anytime suggested that we did you hear of so many men and stands up where their wives or ghetto friends eight or the medical petitions and encourage the really really none of that if you're a ghetto so it was only 'cause i can amax deadly. It was just coincidence that they said. Will you do this article. Where you try stand up you're back to my mac curtian the comedians name and say oh this again this happens every okay and you mentioned that he's but like nearly always the genesis will vote foul to fight again how difficult it is but you actually did well. Absolutely i recognise person. The world that's ever happened to just did an interview with a sudden journalists that was like oh. I'm actually gonna try price dhondup for an article next any said that like it was the most genova and he said because everyone in the office says funny and i was like i said zaidan guess you've started up for you need as ideally a dead mother a father that's always georgia who's are classic ingredients embry dance or a noodle arctic muller and then you need to be an ugly child or billy to school or strange and subway. That's going to be the fact that creates gates the narcissism the gate she through years and years of people who in your stage and what have you had quite a troubled childhoods is not not just on a moustache glasses and stuff yeah i was really geeky in a how warlike really unusual and everyone at school code man happy because he's a mom like we're always like eight luta unusual fruits and fruit of bathgate. It was quite weird and yeah. Just it was a weirdo is go to oh yeah. We're you yeah that's. I'm not sure sheet as well yeah then sixty in our main goal oriented skinheads get over. It and i can't believe him forgotten as actually in talking about the m._s._u. Everyday but to me is just like a normal part of you know how it goes in your team's mainos but with his great entrepreneurs great art school. We're getting you ready for the guardian about about that. Ah on yeah good looking to be campo sitcom about that situation. That was what was it okay except through bbc bangla the k._f._c. and we can't make jokes about the mentally ill and i was like i'm the mentally ill they ever paid a sake facility as a leader so they kept trying to change agents unit for badly behaved kids and that's what made a conversion is going to be but i don't kid anymore money right. I didn't see this show clippings. The brexit stage left which was traveling around europe to do gigs to europeans yeah my friends jamali jamali mattocks data cds for vice that was called he neighbor where he goes and meets different different racists in america and then vice what it to make about brexit so we send me bro and short mclaughlin wrote. It was the best job ever because we were just like game failed being on holiday wanted us to talk about brexit and also the the counselor basically like the crew. It wasn't fading well planned so they would fell must have dinner in them. Be like guys can you you talk about brexit and we were like none of those are economists or bullets. We were just trying to see about brexit they will. I don't think it was a very good could be aspect is fine. So that's interesting to me. The china look good. Oh yeah trailer was if you just watch the link. That's awesome inverse questions. Let's see how these guys are going to find out. Have you ever seen a ghost condescension. Ah yes yes we should i should i was in a council house a good cause. I don't know why also oh my god in my house and then one on put i want this is crazy. The we are terry you will believe the ghost so i live in a part of london called catford s really horrific martyrs and stuff the first night i was living there i could hear ghostly noises on. I told my boyfriend and he was lake because then holder films there's always person news logos there as there and then another larsen doesn't believe you and i said i can hear goose noises and he was like food. Do not wake me up. Oh that goes through so a good goal dirt address and it come came up on wikipedia of the transit trans prostitute was sorry. I'm making shoot a word. This correctly transects sex worker bees was martyred by a guy wanted to hate that they were lovers as whom famous and the ghost boost still haunts the house so i found by google in my address after heating ghost noises and has been ghost books. You'll goes ah we've already heard. My noises tops the windows okay from the outside the inside there's we've got like a utility room on this is not from the esa went to a copy someone in the guard basically that's like a groupie about a went into my bedroom and the inside of the house and the ghost is tapping at or hits the walls as well okay a more about investigate. There was running back. There was one in basket. Well people always make that goes certain stately homes but it makes more sense that the most ratchets spirits would be council has bathroom. Yeah that's true. There's a lot of famous people come back gave oh well attended a factor louis pouty where to my schedule you say that susan boyle went symbo year april yet susan boyle isla fisher this matt meyer to sasha baron in quin. She's done woman. She well yeah anyone same with david tennant. I didn't believe he was bathgate. Exceeded the face whereas again i feel really protective of louis kabbadi and susan boyle because people always go out and buy their faces and i'm like that's just how everyone looks. That's why we look. It's not our fault. You just look melted well. It was ridiculous but susan boyle like the idea that someone who doesn't like a singer could say yeah not since signed right. I feel really think thing to happen whereas really charges because you go osberg. Jerry can cope with that sort of tyrian shed chat do and then the press would just like make phone over for having meltdowns in airports and stuff peter. She still lives in the house for donnie osmond bedspreads left him and he's like the tool now this impossible the tone of this podcast down any any further raised thing if you can take one item from any museum or art gallery in the world and take it home and keep it in his yours. You're allowed one thing too many museum. What is that something you would like to have. Yeah probably are stuffed tiger in her piece for eleven twenty on ebay. Yeah uh-huh yeah yeah probably up like a dinosaur. If we're gonna go the natural history through the skeleton expecting them real jurassic park go. I'll terry would love yeah. Oh my god when the preserved bodies of sees yeah. It's like that. I love that stuff or what am village where every year the takeoff drill elza walk out the town won't release that is in scotland a- as a as somewhere in india or something basically like every year the dead ground pids change their cools have a chat with them a walk around the time when and a pretty it's a super we should it does look like cocoa the disney film. I haven't actually people coming back from the interesting. I did not know about that and i gave you three. Having a tip that dispenses talcum powder or a finger tate repressed that can talcum powder town by one. I never make up. How about my health. Avoid decided you can feed into dry them up a bit or a baker's body might need it dry yourself with a towel all right well. That doesn't sound good but when we option trump free time i'm neil finger. Can travel probably still connected you but your finger ford's backwards in time no because you can look through their makes a whole. Thank uh-huh yeah. Pick one the veterans and ask me why brady sweating over the top combatant. I've seen a lot more dump juden. They can't embraer just constantly cloudy. 'cause i'm not used to this weather yeah yeah. I think this is the worst one. Since two thousand nine eight or nine says she said the moustache to freelance blaming stash bring bring good weather so so what would you do if you got to figure that time to waste my time talking about rubbish. If you could travel through time with your finger. What would you do with your finger. Would you you change in the future with just a finger. I'm interested to know there's just so. I'm glad you're thinking about this thing. If i go back i would just say not to do two weeks of the best of bobby at the end. I remember why we remember that when we did that's literally i would love to go home tonight. I would love to the zoo coming a spot a spa coming up. I want to like if anyone years that i send you ought to see my extra schule as a plays in slow the to his you wanna find her mom grateful but i did start email about injured last night and say what will it take to prove the next week. It was the hukou arcot active another one to these people anymore because i i. I don't know what people want from me. I do annoy some of them. Come to other people come into the shoes just because the way to go with man is like people that doesn't like me as go. Why do they come. That's a it's a recurring theme. Remember all the greek letter to they story about some who someone in pulled them at school yeah dang untouchable placement. Hey it's me janine breaks. No horrible break delete but every person of that story yes. Someone who friends about me in school was like oh lawyer tally. You look good now <hes> yeah your face looks pandang from a hard life of buff gay still here while i'm sure you'll get through the week and so you've got extra shame you sold out on your other shows apart from the extra she'll run so apart from we put on an extra schule tobacco forum at the place grand slurs like three hundred tickets left for that sell those you're supposed to show cold kiosks yes. Why are you gonna conc- yeah to watch as soon as i get up go three days a ah good at danmark and socioeconomic the holiday there mark and then i'll start the tour in crawley and the keys that rings a bell to have a lovely time laser general run. Hey hoping to get paid in march. Just go into the second interview. Just issue a reminder that you would. I wanted to be in the show. Have you enjoyed that. It is a gift if you feel like you'd like to give some money for that and then you want to know gatien at the end of the show up some buckets out and that we make a scope which is fantastic cerebral palsy if you'd like to giardi either find some in the bucket on my bill desperate. I have as you go. There is comfortable pocket. The money and i promise i'll put it in the bucket for you. That is a guarantee. I am selling books and stickers as as you got very happy to sign your program and do all that jazz. You don't have to buy anything from me. Say hello cuddle and no doubt talking about. I'm happy thirty second guess today. Now it's gone i haven't i haven't written she's best known for so i can just think of the top of my head might wanna from the last launch on so so i guess is upset it before but she is still best known for appearance on improvisisation diamant wasn't and that's why we're here today and i saw watson jogging past me today on the meadows he went one way and then he realized that was wrong. Long waiting improvise planned. I'm open tuesday. She there okay good. We can get in fact. I was just playing with some banks. Thank you come out. You take a lump pick ruined just thrown off the would've. It would've been a great quarterbacks. Joy isn't it is how collapsing your fringe now just fucking about the baby to babies. They get more fun mundell. Why badly ready to cute nice agree is when they start speaking saying stupid stuff as paying for madore. She's been quite england. If such a concept exist i had no such thing as england attending i have the whole thing is just scotland. I take take it so your shows about giving birth to a human when you're spoil it. I i must is kind of about the we'd like pitch it people it's about how do you welcome someone onto the world when everyone's telling you the end of the world and how do you talk about things where people have historically been like how could you talk about a woman thing but how can you be like no this. It's really really interesting. A massive coming join in please come to the extra show booked solely out hubris yeah. I decided not to have this limited. It's blinds are so have you found rambling among other things the best new eighteen months old she's young. She's like she's thirty months but spoil relations actually fourteen distance from the fictional baby and the real. That's a tough time is operatives because that basically a baby but they're like as energetic and emotional was a toddler but at least godless can sometimes be like what best gate where she was just like like. Do you want this to injure. Let giving amerique or a knife or something you obe. Luckily it's been a real challenge because i'm she's coming to the fringe of my own. I like spending juries afternoon having a swim and think about work and i've just spent i've been to so many soft place in and around the playing remain guys. Let's not be short winded about this. Let's really dive dan back here now to the one on rest of rig road and it's lovely from my really nice guy. I'm bishop for the place but let's be real. It's too small more. We've been to the tumbles south plan portabella. Now we all know portable great destination for a toddler the outdoor park. You got the seaside you got. I screamed etc. She's too young for ice cream. I'm painting a picture swear to god the tumbles of play totally fine which one is the best one. Thank you betcha yeah very big feet my son nice. I've been with jim the seventy how how would you would now twenty two months. I was i gained like in two months of my wife was giving a plane is just gonna do whatever we can to get true this well i read about because i tried not to keep the baby the phone of the babies in the phone because i hate the phone i'm obsessed with the phone born and i wonder how to just like natural l. and i live in the woods and i don't even know what a television is fode food drive. He despises cars so much. She's on baby. So then i'm like just watched one video of five dot for an hour. I don't know how previous generations parents without my pets especially on a long journey to scotland uninhabited with that. I think they just played ice. I like spine. That was yeah. That's what my parents used to three of this and they gave us a polo. Each could make the pilot i i bought. I bought into that so wow great. Why is the dynamics between you and your siblings the five and six years old push me punch cards and you like look mommy daddy. I'd still one of the patients through she the oldest choose desperate for the attention. I'll try killing the one he's catching for two hours blind way maybe dies. I'm going to be some trouble with. I've said so much on this one into guy about in twenty years. You're listening to it being like oh account to see what my late father. I was gonna say the joke. I hopefully have it gets me. I made a tweet like something on the day. When my daughter was born i tweeted a joke about children being sex and so i said fine new we have some sex instrument and then someone visit what if you're taught to reach ten years i'm anne. How would she and i go. Hey adapting scrolling back through thirty six two thousand and be. I hope i'll raise the person's fucking parents this slight when people ooh upset about double barrelled names right my we invent a discerning for her which my mom still cannot believe. She's like that's illegal. The mom is not we've done it. We've registered at the town hall. I wouldn't let you do that. We've done it but like everyone was freaking out about the potential. Could we might have a double barrelled name but could code. They will like twenty shooting. Martin and i'm like well. Maybe within twenty friend us we might have refined patriarchal naming system so it's a bit more fun and chill the fuck out. I know like fame where everyone a full set. Never luckily never sleep in the middle of the day. You're famous too little two or three a one four yes. I think we do herring left. If you have a choice foisted on my kids love having now now do a tough journey. How do you feel about people whose names like salmon not salmon someone slam on other fish friends. Some of them were except salmon is unacceptable. No one knew sam seven unexamined but that doesn't count. Have you ever met any other fish and aims. Uh fish come rate well. I think about sharing sounds like a terrible company made up nine so that you real name was you're really make harry as mine. I lose respect for the person asked me. I wouldn't make this lisa. Let's talk about some other stuff. That's been going on as we talked to. They might do models great time. Juve either is a crime that no one is resurrected that pilot. I'm still holding out and i'm still hungry takeover that that reunites the cost about pilots. You'll that's one of my. I think i mentioned this not mentioned just be calling in the united states and honey. He's new clean colleagues touch within twenty five seconds each for the rest of the cost ornette justin lee collins where he does he does bring back to well did bring rain chill a._t. Along along with some scrap book a bachelor slow you still like to a guy in prison who is a black panther berber activists yeah. I still love him too much. Shame i meant to him for a while and g._t. The baby take anything. I think they mafia. How did you get involved into those things him stand up on stage in about two thousand nine nine about the fact that i just in very ignorant about what the comfort were like. We're not like my general impression of the night got fru like vaguely igli. Hearing of them was like oh yes very inspired bit phone and then i watched a couple of documentaries about there's an amazing one about fred hampton. Oh my god i really recommended. It's solid upsetting. It's like he's most incredible incredible mind and obviously was kind of that was murdered boy the powers that be and the more you find dab plus pumpers and what they started out doing they started out doing the most a wonderful community activism. The first thing was a breakfast club. Bob was becoming lollipop men because in their neighborhoods nobody bothered building any traffic circulation like oh my god it was just device wonderful movement of people that genuinely made a difference in their community and when making these really important and righteous political points in speeches and then it felt like they were galvanizing using something and then obviously they were like saget obese and suppressed in a lot of the brain is so shit this three of them who aren't the writing kenzi whitmore's another man who was also wrongfully imprisoned and they just feed them up and for murder charges that they obviously didn't commit and some of them can really wet more were in solitary for decades for thirty years and say like things like that. That's like inhuman torture of brilliant smart people who then have to spend life just trying to keep the sensing their amazing inspiring people people are seeing this stand up about how basically i find that when i was like oh my god fuller was not to know more and also just enjoying the way they speak because this had to do was watching speak to your fred hampton and he comes up and he says which we say two peaks daddy cope with the next big. Daddy will not hold us down and i was just like wow or much opening your speech. We saito pigs daddy. I was like oh my god. It was a different time identify like hip vernacular and anyway. This woman came up to me this artist who carry recall he's amazing and she said to me off. Oh i felt really overwhelmed when you were talking about the pump is because right can easily whitmore and so then i wrote to him and he's just amazing also such little twat because i was like really exhausted like having of had a bit for political whitening like twenty ten to eleven and then feeling so devastated when the university reforms went through remember the catling of students and such a shame when it continues to be like awful and very bad for society and i wrote him it was like how do you keep going now like fucking keys bill just a bit upset and you're in the how'd you keep going anyway right this wonderfully and kind and generous lead up to about how you have to turn on your anger into positive action and he can do it and you keep going is just a wonderful wonderful man. He's incredible and friend of mine now right him and still write him off yet. You should write to him. It's thanks kelli kelli his name's kenny zealand <music> wigmore. You can find address. There's a freezing website. That's current address because they move them around that. People can't find him. I think what's really embarrassing. Is the baby engaged so little with the outside world he could have been released and i would have been released still write to him because he sends celebrations to the joint gifts and please send him things. He's all right. Let s to write back to break alright then he can snub pins do lots of youtube. You been yet recently mobile. It's always ah social politics say in your work but you did tell me about the tool of without having any in not too often. We wanted to eleven where we basically. We got this bus and that's it was great. We got this van and me and tom power and grace petri and a few of people. We all went brandon. We just decided we're going to perform in places that people's like of show up and the reason we did it worse. We wanted to see if it was possible to build a cake from scratch arriving to play see what happened but we also want is an adventure trough and we wanted to get back. I felt like for a couple of years of activism but was like protests and i wanted something that was like no. It's about joy in about trying trying to imagine a world and have fun and trying to reclaim schick privatize public space as we tony levin for about ten days and it was one of the best experiences in my life we stayed with simon monday used to live in a stately home that he rented a wing off and it had its own private reefa so we all went inside there and he was amazing obviously and we swam in the river and we'll say it was also an excuse to swing for me like we did and i loved then. We tried to do one a year later in twenty twelve and it was all wrong. It was like half the original people could come tool manager couldn't really do a lot of people came on who were like. This is great for my career. I was like no it's not spoiler la ruinous and then we did it can in two thousand fifteen and i have a friend who's a journalist and oracle microsoft love and it was how many really galvanized friendship it was so fucking great we did it together and and just had a really lovely mix of people yeah we went to the first one was in trowbridge round the back of a shopping center but it was he's also an alleyway that led to look really intense muscle jayme. It's what we're trying to do. The gig and it was thirteen year olds and then about once every three minutes back doc insanely muscular guy would like total pass hide. Oh it was literally greenwood just deciding on where we're going to play when you go there and we've create the venues finding like natural manmade empathy is slightly due to move right in the town centre. People come between about like the smallest graduate have would be about four in the largest. We'd have we'd be like one hundred hundred fifty and it do the best thing about it was it was a proper mix of everyone in society and it was this what people that mike cardigan based cuma would not necessarily attract and it for me. I was like that's not pretentious like a regional or learn about radical hospitality where it's like no this is free and we want everyone to come and we don't care if you're somebody who's a bit disruptive difficult like that's what we want and it was about trying to cater to lots different people and keep something away for free and we need to get some funday come into from wall so basically every day. We're like ten pizzas time. It'd be twelve rose being like when the pizza hut this a little bit more of my shoe by was wonderful. I'd love to again like we went to blind faith life which is near middlesbrough but not middlesbrough. There was like these amazing twelve year olds climbing over the top of this owning at while. I wasn't saved i mean it was fun and it was challenging and it was a weird thing to do. And then we end mighty show my dream was that we were going to document and make a documentary. Ah stand up very marketable prospect so we've got footage very on it with behind the shops of your day things with through traditional brokers as well you films yeah yourself and do ooh myself so you are currently organized and also just yet yeah. It's something you love that you have actually got doesn't quite come the finish line of the film we made a feature film but it was my collaborator is dr king and like i wrote an acted in produced directed edited found found the location so it's like if you look at the split it's like orients i roach it and and like this man two years of work but yeah i mean it's very much my project propel if you've done it much acting before the little bits and pieces remained at very good thank you. It's very nice nice. I would love to be employed. Please anyone yeah we we did it partly concerned with making films cover for about eight years and we'd love doing it and we we're just desperate to make a feature and we kind of mocked help him wasted some time with some people who just kind of wasted our time and then the way that i am and i think you must be stunned up like if one of our show right doing so when you're trying to seek funding for the things you like guys the idea is now going to be hot and two years fuck god and we just kind of map. Stop twenty sixteen in with like how can make this happen. We realized that we kind of shoot for a week before and after some su zula okay well. How can we kind of put lines of the plot and we'll cave if it's about like a mumble corey film without a woman before after relationship breaks up and then we're a bit like fuck we're gonna put a military go in the middle and then we prohibited in february two thousand sixteen and then we finished shooting the first half the day of the brexit vote and then finish it in the second half of the day of the trump with bif- them. We were like this isn't fucking documentary. Fuck is this breath and now we're like. We always joke because we're like the next we're going to be writing about me and you winning millions of pounds caribbean holiday. Take that stuff so many long time nice weird because i still think of you is like a very new comedian is twenty years. It won the competition yeah when you say you company would beating david complaints rivalry between took over this behavior survival re because he won the worst competition and also visit desperately coveted the b._b._c. whereas i to me i just sailed through and i'm like trying to this. This isn't yeah originalmattress. Monkhouse z. under that seems that seems bizarre was oh. It was such a weird competition so writes the b._b._c. comedy would now is a radio fourth thing and i think i organize it really wow and it's really focuses on the comedian when auditor for some reason gave did they upgraded it from lake. Show that was on bbc two bbc one primetime show but the way they did did was for like showcase the comedian the act when we're trying to say so there was like a big competition and final at george square feet right seven hundred people and ain't you must've just seven minutes set and they're like seven of us. That's four nine minutes of material tapio right that could have been maybe ten minutes of interviews around that instead. They come all the comedians on t._v. To one and a half minutes and then just had loads of talking talking heads of famous comedians dombi shit and then they book the brand new heavies who in nineteen ninety nine big fucking deo c._e._o. And they film them for like four minutes in the middle of the standup show event didn't like us like ten seconds of it while they were like the the judges are deliberating while the brand new heavies play but they never really played they just kind of film the like so fucking with and they had like a big panel of celebrity judges so they had pizza k. k. You remember from the ninety s. It must be fun if he becomes it comes into staubach thing nike supplement company who remembers we talk about me. She shocks and by video k. richard wilson listen for no. He wasn't the same age as rich pine fine. I place my might be so blatant richard well done. You've got the part. You've officially got one foot. The grave may should just thought we'd like dangling at the very least is is it progress up to the name grace. I tell you the top just waiting for that guy to die. They're going to be so grave and so. It's not like they will be so. I don't believe it will be a picture of skaggs in which is on take the tap right. Is that what you're going to do. I'm just predicting it. Eastern beloved by me so there was lots of liberty on the panel we we don't believe in victim too fast. It's used to participate -ticipant customers presenting it right and it was very good as well because like it was sort of a strange collision of different won't because he was kind of doing like hello. It's me ball you know and then he was comparing us but then obviously like meantime how came on station i covered signing was hello martin and frankly and i play for chosen and then i would just stand there like what a clever thing. I'm not frankly buffet awe thing on my tummy that was like a a piece of paper that go on and written mother underneath and i take notes wrong notes bit naughty new tattoo join essay now. It's not i mean you can see why one and then there was a ready meals. I used to eat a lot co the admiral's pie and it was like a box to that most pie and i used to have that hidden in the back of my trousers and i used to guys. I'm sorry you want a cruise. I wanna play cruise but i couldn't help myself. I'm a cut to maniac moves pie rural the house them <hes> house. I mean people were railing in this experience for me because it was about my fifty. Gig league was seventeen years old. I was terrified. I was thrilled believe mayton celebrities. It was like wonderful and we were staying nine for week altogether on the findings and it was me and david and a guy from wales in the whole set about the booze who's really tentative. That was a really really nice guy. He became an actor could mark strong and there was another guy who hasn't what happened to beckham so nice there. There was a couple of guys from the norfolk a lot more like slick plob- guys eyewitness blattner really great timing look good. I'm staying in this co- flat marchmont mm-hmm and grinding dailies or whatever and i had french toast with bacon fucking mansion my boyfriend at the time was up and then i remember costra finished came backstage and kiss me passionately god and then. I just never thought i would win because we know kate. I i talk station biz because everyone else was a man and i was like oh. Can i have a drink and then because it was like ninety ninety nine even though a seventeen bucket of precarity breezes fucked party breezes and two reefs tonight i mean oh my god i was in heaven. Fox and import monk has came out. Do you can't be drunk. You might win. I'm gonna fucking talking women in my dressing room. There is a basket fruit. You must go in and eat all of the fucking wasted while the brand new heavies coming and then at the end the release weeks. I'm holding onto the sign i stole from backstage and then they announced the second and third and then helps me as long then what's funny is. I don't look around. Just it's like stride out like i bring falls my destiny speedy foam now you mentioned turn catapulted to overnight success twenty. S yeah when you think i'm only nineteen yes. It's really odd. It's it's weird and it's wild to think how clear you can feel the scene as changed in some ways zia like how wonderful is the. I truly believe that. No woman comedian ever be artist by a national newspaper are women funny. There's not many communities like he's he's gone and i'm like oh just ten fifteen years of that shit and that is a real through but at the thank time like the discourse is so much more like fragmented and difficult in new and i really feel like through the i've seen kind of you've you know what happens when you put your stall out and then people see your still on a reference by that and so on and so on and it develops as an art form. We just get richer and more exciting yeah. I'm just i'm actually kind of blown away when it's done this is just unbelievable see not much. I'm just researching pigments. They messed up online. There's just so much invention change in addition is taking quite terrifying economy you can't do this wouldn't be allowed into accenting ep when you've been banned because i'm white white let's say you you've been silenced riches so i thought the racist things on jesus christ racism is bad uh from games no so why is still bad not bad she's good. I caught off a piece of threes tease video. That was like i'm more frightened. If white supremacist terrorism islamic terrorism is terrorism isn't being mainstream than it's not being fadia m- people and it's not being subtly kind of pushed on young people and i got more of my life for it because lots of how they described themselves classical liberal far-right youtube is picked up when i and i am at the time really really overwhelming and hide and now unlike sad. It's so effective because we should be like fuck you. I'm right. I'm out because i just it makes me so sad that it's like. I guess i'm talking about. It's like we don't know in such a way but like in the on the fringes of the comedy scene in that people seek to defend that and seek to kind of enablement well unfortunately one time time for the first time ever lighten me. He's just trying to silence a red light. Sorry any reason that up his because i had so many people telling me i was racist against white man and i found that so hilarious because i was like that's motor things like stop. It's not a vein and now donald trump adolf hitler. Finally i don't that bombshell uh-huh. I'm digging in this venue a tenth of a pin on next saturday so if you just hide under the stage for a week you come for free but please please please the u up in this week tune in to i am the staffed. Everyone go faster stripe. Adopt producer is james hindley. This is a scully is going to go dot com production goto dot co dot u._k. To find out more richard herring dot com slash gigs to find out who might get. I saw the rest of the running.

scotland david tennant edinburgh fred hampton susan boyle london brady america al murray Martin glasgow whitmore geico nathan ring jason ross gop bathgate rotary club ebay
Another coronavirus vaccine trial shows promise

PRI's The World

50:45 min | 2 months ago

Another coronavirus vaccine trial shows promise

"Hi everybody marco werman here before we get into the show. I've got some exciting news to share. The world is participating in news match from now until the end of the year. Every dollar donated to the world will be matched. This means that a gift of fifty dollars will actually provide one hundred dollars support to our work here the world if you have ever considered giving to the world today is the day to take intention and turn it into action. One that we will be deeply grateful for every day. The world crosses borders and time zones to bring you stories that matter as a nonprofit newsroom. We rely on contributions from listeners. Like you to keep our reporting free and accessible to all with news match you can double your impact. It takes a lot to keep the world spinning and we cannot do it without you. Head to the world dot org slash give to donate today from everybody here at the world. Thank you support for. The world comes from hint. Water hint is water. Infused with fruit. Essences like watermelon and blackberry. No sweeteners no calories in stores or delivered direct to your door from drink hint dot com hint water with a touch of true fruit flavor support for this episode comes from mothers of invention. Have you heard the rally cry. Climate change is a manmade problem with a feminist solution. So good right is. The action inspired call of mothers of invention a climate justice. Podcast like you've never heard before. Join former irish. President mary robinson comedian maeve higgins and series producer. The molly cody. Kara as they celebrate black brown and indigenous leaders all over the world fighting from the frontlines. Find mothers of invention. Wherever you listen to podcasts. Excitement builds over a potential covid nineteen vaccine. Now the big question who gets it first. Rich countries are investing in equal access but also reserving doses themselves. In some sense they are giving with one hand and taking away with the other. I'm carol hills new services that a top al-qaeda leader was killed on a street in tehran. This summer he was involved. Everything's don't that it's been doing. And china has brought together fifteen asian countries in one of the biggest free trade pacts ever now with china taking a lead in this organization it's clear it's going to really solidify their power the region where that leaves the us and other stories ahead on the world her. I'm carol hills. You're listening to the world on this monday. Promising news from the pharma company moderna today. They announced preliminary data showing their corona virus vaccine to be ninety four point. five percent. Effective pfizer announced some similar results last week. That means. there's an increased urgency in addressing. How and to whom vaccines will be distributed once. They're ready andrea. Taylor is with duke university's global health innovation center where she studying data on covid nineteen vaccines and therapeutics andrea. First of all. I wanna start with asking you about the pfizer and moderna announcements last week and today. What was your reaction when you heard about these results. So obviously they're really good news. I think the pfizer vaccine in particular is good news for high income countries and not really good news. For lower income countries that may lack the infrastructure to deal with an ultra. Cold storage vaccine. So the pfizer. Biontech vaccine candidate needs to be stored about negative seventy degrees celsius the same temperature as dry ice. So in that context that madonna is very welcome for countries that lack the ultra cold storage capacity and madonna vaccine. It's stable at refrigeration temperatures and can be frozen at standard freezer temperature up to six months. When should we be expecting the first vaccines to be distributed for public use. At this point it looks like the first vaccines will likely ship out about. Mid december and those will be going to the highest priority populations which will include frontline healthcare workers and those at the highest risk of mortality for covid nineteen and will those be going to basically rich countries or frontline workers those at most risk across the globe. That is the million dollar question. The majority of the doses that have been purchased through advance market commitments have been purchased by high income countries. What we don't know is of those first tranches of davis's they get manufactured where they will ship out so the kovacs facility is currently the only mechanism we have globally to ensure that vaccines go to all countries at the same time in the same proportion and remind us what kovacs facility is. What's that whole mechanism. Sure so the kovacs facility is an alliance with. Who gavi the vaccine alliance and seppi. It's a mechanism to ensure that there's global equity of access in vaccines so countries can join the kovacs facility and buy in. At a certain percentage of their population. The kovacs is reserving manufacturing capacity to ensure that successful candidates can be manufactured and then we'll ship them out to all participating countries proportional to the population so that all kovacs member countries will get up to twenty percent coverage and the country's at about in at a higher level can then receive additional population coverage but every country will receive at least twenty percent population coverage before any more. But the long and short of it is all depends on it's not going to preclude the high income countries who've already contract to get a whole bunch of vaccines from company x. or y. To go ahead and distribute those vaccines. Yeah that's exactly correct. And that's what our research is really looking at is that there are these competing incentives particularly for high income countries whereas these high income countries many of them have invested really generously in kovacs and in global equity and at the same time are reserving doses through advance market commitments and because of the manufacturing constraints reserving doses through chance market commitments. Actually takes off of the table so in some sense they are sort of giving with one hand through their investments in kovacs and taking away with the other through their advance market commitments. What are your chief concerns. When it comes to distribution the primary concerns that we're looking out for our certainly preparedness in terms of having trained providers in the right locations having the syringes that are needed. Because those need to ship ahead those need to go by sea whereas the vaccines can go by air but we're also very concerned about a couple issues that we're hearing more and more about from experts on the ground so one of those around vaccine hesitancy and misinformation and mistrust of the vaccines this sort of rise in anti vaccine campaigns globally. So we're seeing that pop up more and more even in lower income countries. There is a concern that there will be a lack of demand. Actually wants vaccines are available. And then another concern that we have is vaccine fraud potential issues of vaccines And fraudulent vaccines being offered on the black market. And i think when we are looking at the equity issues if we have low income countries that are struggling to reserve and receive enough vaccine doses to protect the population. They will be more vulnerable than to Vaccines lock market and potentially receiving vaccines. That are are fraudulent. Andrew taylor is with duke. University's global health innovation center. Thank you so much. Thank you the prospect of an effective covid. nineteen vaccine is exciting but a vaccine on won't end the pandemic. that's what the director of the world health organization. Dr tedros adhanom ghebreyesus stress. Today during the agency's daily briefing tedros said any vaccine must go hand in hand with other public health measures testing tracing isolating and supporting those who need to quarantine. My message is very clear. Act fast actor now. Opt decisively eliza faire attitude to the virus not using the full range of tools available leads to death suffering and hurts livelihoods and economies that message of taking a comprehensive approach has hit close to home for the agency itself. Tedros went into self quarantine this month after coming into contact with someone who tested positive for covid nineteen he was back at. Who headquarters in geneva for the first time today and said he feels fine. The organization also confirmed today that five of its on site staff members tested positive in the past week. Who emergency director. Dr mike ryan said that switzerland where the agency is based has been a hot spot for the krona virus in europe human beings and we live within the society. We're not entirely within a cocoon here. Who's technical director. Dr maria van kerckhove said it's reduced the number of staff on site and his tracing the path of infections. So what we do. Is we carry out contact. Tracing to see who they came in contact with to see if there are any further onward transmission As most countries are doing we also look back to see. What did they do in the previous fourteen days. For example kirkov said since the start of the pandemic three dozen staff based at the. Who have tested positive for covid but all are now fine. Worldwide more than fifty million cases have been reported and more than one point. Three million people have died for his johnson's first year as british. Prime minister has been a rocky one. There's the pandemic johnson's own battle with covid. Nineteen never ending. Brexit talks and political u turns on everything from free school meals to a lockdown through it all johnson has had his chief advisor dominant cummings by aside last friday that partnership ended abruptly leaving many wondering. What's next for the prime minister and for brexit from london. The world's orla berry has more dominic cummings achieved what few advisors to any uk. Prime minister have done. He's become a household name in britain. Coming did so as the chief architect behind the vote leave campaign persuading voters to say yes to brexit in twenty sixteen. We can say the decision taken in one thousand nine hundred seventy five by this country to join. The common market has been reversed by this referendum. The british people have spoken. And the answer is we're out. The news was a stunning political developments. That cummings largely orchestrated when the conservatives won a majority in last december's election he got credit for that too for the campaign slogan that secured boris johnson. This landslide victory. Everybody my friends we didn't. We pulled it off in weight and monday and this majority we will at last be able to do what. Tension johnson awarded commes with the top job as chief advisor and the move upset. A lot of people because cummings is notoriously abrasive figure with a knack for robbing people up. The wrong way for those who oppose brags cummings is despised but in johnson's own conservative party. Coming plenty of enemies to is stone was abrasive and combative and involved attacking institutions in a way. That was very own conservative. That's david goldberg. A former justice secretary with the party speaking to the bbc his colleague. Mp charles walker says cummings cut off access to the prime minister. We feel we've lost in for the last year. We want him back. he belongs to. She doesn't belong to the advisers. He belongs to the parliamentary party. That elected him but despite the descent from his party colleagues. Boris johnson remained fiercely loyal to his toes. Assayed most memorably when cummings flouted national lockdown rules by driving to his parents home in another part of england and then taking a day trip to local castle what suffering with covert symptoms. Cummings was forced to give a press conference to try and explain his actions. My wife was very worry. Particularly given my is cited c. Which seemed to have been affected by the disease. We agreed that we should go for short. Drive to see if i could drive safely. Who drove for roughly half an hour. An ended up on the outskirts of bond castletown. His explanation did not go down well with the british public or many conservative. mp's but despite all the outrage the prime minister refused to sack. Cummings matthew flinders professor of politics at sheffield university. Says it's not just loyalty. Boris as a kind to me somebody who needs to be loved and actually bought. You had reposting dominant. Cummings was the most strangest sort of good cop. Bad cop political partnership basically domain. Cummings was there to ruffle feathers to be disruptive often that had to happen to shake things up. But boris was never gonna do that which makes coming sudden departure from ten downing street on friday. All the more intriguing. Some are convinced. That johnson's trustee aid finally turned against him but apart from the intrigue many wonder what cummings departure will mean for. The brexit talks with this hard line. Brexit tear no long regicide. Boris johnson agreed to compromise and strike a deal with the eu. Not to flinders. Doesn't think so. Now there are so many big big areas where there is no agreement a tool. It's hard to see even with dominic cummings out of the way whether that could be any agreement and actually the person who is strongest and most of bitten into not negotiating is is boris. So no. I don't think there's going to be southern rapid shift in european policy but former prime minister gordon brown says a deal could be on the cards speaking on national television. He says it's less about dominic. Cummings and more about who's moving into the white house. I think the arrival of joe biden has made all the difference. Icy trade deal coming pretty soon. The government simply cannot afford to be at war with america on the one hand in europe and the other at the start of the new year with. Cummings gone there's an expectation that a new softer tone might emerge from ten downing. Street's more congenial less confrontational but water. Boris johnson himself without his right hand. Man he says future as prime minister on shaky ground matthew flinders says. This is a critical moment for johnson. Boris main weakness has always been himself. That's why every election. He's been into his advisors in the team around him of basically focus more highlighting. Boras away the promoting out. That indra says the prime minister now has to rebuild public trust with a new team of advisers today. Johnson his back in quarantine after fellow. Mp he matched with tested positive for the coronavirus. He has to satisfy late for fourteen days. Perhaps this would give boris johnson. The time he needs to plan his next move for the world. I'm mortuary in london coming up soon. China's new trade deal deepens. Its power across asia. You're listening to the world. I'm carol hills. This is the world. One of al-qaeda's top leaders was killed. Back in august gunned down on a street in tehran us. According to unnamed us intelligence officials in news reports over the weekend. He was known as double muhammed amasi and was number. Two al qaeda. According to reports israeli operatives killed elmasri and his daughter in iran's capital iranian officials are denying the reports. They also deny that the country gives safe harbor to al qaeda. Terrorists world syringe. Affari has the story it. Ron is not the first place you would expect. An al-qaeda leader to believing it. There's limit republic is a shia majority country. Al-qaeda is a sunni militant group and the to have long been bitter enemies. But according to american officials last august is really operatives carry out a brazen assassination in the heart of iran's capital saudi coming from west asia where al qaeda's second chief in command was killed in iran three months ago intelligence officials told the new york times. It happened around nine pm. Local type two men on a motorcycle approach decor of a man believed to be alcaide. The second-in-command abu al masri. The men fired five shots using guns fitted with silencers. Four of them hit a mystery and his daughter who was with him in the car. China china's not eating this with this told iranian news media that neighbors found the two buddies shortly after. Initially the victims were identified as lebanese history. Teacher happy donald and his twenty seven year old daughter maryam but reporters were never able to verify. those needs. American intelligence officials say iran was trying to cover up the assassination us intelligence officials took notice of abu mohammed muster. Back in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight. he helped plan the twin attacks on american embassies. In kenya and tanzania on mustard was born in egypt was a professional soccer player but later he was drawn into the fight against the soviets in afghanistan and to the type of extremes that osama bin laden was promoting barak. Medicine has studied jihadi movements for the past two decades. He was involved in. Everything has been doing. What i it's a is a trainer in somalia actually involved in a way in the black hawk downing's then and overtime is the title of bench emptied out. He found himself suddenly the position. All the number two guy mendelssohn says on muster has lived in iran since two thousand and two and the country's relationship with the group has been complicated after nine. Eleven members of al-qaeda showed up in iran. Initially it was unclear who letting them in but also moghaddam with a louder school of government. Diplomacy and strategy in hits. Israel says the connection between iran and al qaida grew into something transaction over time. It became a bit more clear and it really turned out that the iranians were holding the qaeda operatives to use them as as kind of cudgel so to speak. If high level officials were living in iran maybe the group would think twice before carrying out an attack on the country. Iran also alcott members as bargaining chips in tony levin for example it released members of the bin laden family in exchange for an iranian diplomat. Who was abducted in pakistan asaf. Mokattam says he wasn't surprised about the news of the israeli. Let assassination in iran. There have been others in the past. And he says the killing of alabama must re comes at a time when there are reports of the death of another top al-qaeda leader if this is true than than you basically have a one two punch against the al-qaeda leadership for which it will be very very difficult for the group to recover experts. Say al central has been in decline for a but it's affiliates continued to wreak havoc in parts of africa the middle east and south asia. They also point out that the killing of unless street took place twenty two years to the day of the bombings in kenya and tanzania for the world. I'm shooting for the. Us remains the world's largest economy but just barely during the next four years. China's gdp is expected to overtake the us within not far behind. One reason why is global trade. China is the world's most trading partner and that's a trend. That's received another boost this weekend. China brought together more than a dozen countries across the asia pacific region to sign a huge free trade. Deal here to tell us what that might mean. Is cara reynolds. She's a professor of economics at american university. Cara who is in this new trade group. And how important is it. Yes this partnership includes china. Japan south korea australia and new zealand and all ten members of the original association of southeast asian nations which includes indonesia thailand singapore malaysia philippines vietnam brunei cambodia myanmar and laos. It's the big deal between all the countries accounts for about a third of the world's population and about twenty nine percent of the world's gdp. Sounds like a megadeal still some have called its value more symbolic than actual. I mean india's not a member will this group dominate global trade. In the years to come. India was part of the initial negotiations for this so i think it is possible that they may join later on the asean nations that i mentioned already had free trade within them and they also had free trade agreements with australia and new zealand and china. But this is the first free trade agreement that is between china japan and south korea. What exactly is china's role in willett. Call the shots in the group or simply backup you know. Initially the united states and most of these countries were negotiating the trans-pacific partnership and that agreement with specifically designed to exclude china in some ways to give the country's bargaining power with china to encourage them to change some of their regulations and so now with china taking a lead in this organization. It's clear it's going to really solidify. Their power in the region certainly economically. But i think it could have political repercussions as well. What does this megadeal mean for the us economy. I mean it's used to being the eight hundred pound gorilla where trades concerned and. Now it's kind of on the sidelines. I agree and so what you would expect to see is exports from the united states to the area to actually fall as disagreement is solidified. I mean it's also unfortunate that the united states didn't have a seat at the table to talk about some of the issues that are part of this agreement other than just tariffs things like intellectual property rights financial services and e-commerce. These were all of the top issues. That were in the trans-pacific partnership actually that we had firm belief somewhat they should include and we weren't even part these discussions. I was just going to mention the trans-pacific partnership it was something. President obama tried to set up as a rival trade initiative and president trump withdrew the us from that effort. A president biden. Once he's in office could try to revive. What challenges would he face. I think even president obama had challenges getting support for the tpp domestically in congress. So present biden is going to face the same types of challenges. There is just not a lot of desire for new free trade initiatives in the united states. Right now why aren't trade deals popular right now in the us. How that is a million dollar question. I personally feel that it has a lot to do. With income inequality and people feeling that globalization has done certain segments of the us society wrong in terms of lowering wages particularly among certain skill levels in this country. Cara reynolds is a professor of economics at american university. Thanks a lot cara. you're welcome. This is the world. here's a reminder. The world is free for anyone on air on demand and on the web we report stories from around the globe with nuance context and by listening to voices of people most affected by the news. Do your part today to help us. Keep access to the world free. And right now when you donate your contribution will be doubled. The world is participating in news match a campaign to raise money for high quality independent journalism to donate go to the world dot. Org slash give or follow the link right here in the episode notes. Stay safe stay healthy and thank you. The argument for a four day workweek gets a pandemic era makeover. many people. Find it surprising to know that. When you're over work out you become desensitized. Dues job and one of the world's most important telescopes is in peril. This moment with the information that we have this structure is not safe ahead on the world. I'm carol hills. You're listening to the world. We're co-production of and pr x. As the us finds itself at a crossroads between one president and another the united nations happens to be conducting. Its regular review of the united states. Human rights record it does this every four and a half years with each of its one hundred ninety. Three member states this time around. The trump administration is using the review as a final platform to defend its america. First approach the world's ripper shenoy reports. We will now proceed with the review of the united states of america. This is the. Us's third universal periodic review. It's supposed to be a rare opportunity for member countries to evaluate each other on progress toward the global body's founding principles of human rights. The result is a set of recommendations by the evaluating countries and while those recommendations aren't enforced. Nicollet does that lays group did a study that shows their surprisingly effective she's with. Up are info in geneva over fifty percents of up mendacious traeger auctions sets. Are those declined dish afternoon. Thank you madam. President in his presentation to the un us ambassador andrew brent berg portrayed the trump administration as a human rights champion. He highlighted the steps. The trump administration has taken to protect religious liberty by creating an international religious freedom alliance with the joint declaration in support of defending life and protecting the family as we witness a time of unprecedented degradation of human rights by authoritarian governments around the world. It is more important than ever to stand up to defend human rights and fundamental freedoms rembert said the trump administration welcomes transparency and constructive criticism. Joanne cam ward says. That's how the trump administration would like to be remembered despite reality. She's director of the human rights in the us project at columbia law school. There has been this ongoing narrative by trump at the. Us remains a global human rights leader. While at the same time. We've seen the exact opposite which will now begin the interactive dial representatives from the evaluating countries. Talked fast. They only had a minute. Each and often said with all due respect before picking the trump administration's narrative apart listing the many ways the. Us doesn't live up to its human rights obligations. Russia mentioned the big one the trump administration's withdrawal from the un human rights council. The decision of the us to withdraw from the human rights council showed once again the us reluctance civilized dialogue with global community. Human rights countries also talked about the. Us's ongoing use of the death penalty and its failure to combat housing discrimination to sign international human rights agreements and to provide universal healthcare especially during the covid pandemic india recalled the need to address the gender pay disparity would be equal. You had places. Croatia talked about the us failure to combat gun violence and inventory relations with the aim over moving the so-called gun show loophole others suggested steps to address hate speech violence against lgbtq people and climate change. They asked the us to close guantanamo rejoin the paris climate agreement and lift sanctions on members of the international criminal court. Mexico highlighted the detention conditions for migrants ensure the conditions appropriate to detention centers prioritize family unity and safeguard the best interest of the child. Nearly all the countries recommended that the us take steps to investigate and punish police misconduct. Argentina mentioned george floyd by name including measures to prevent murders such as that of george floyd and to ensure that justice is brought when these occur conservatives see the recommendations as inherently flawed because they believe the un is biased and politicized says brent schaeffer at the heritage foundation he questions human rights council that includes members accused of gross human rights violations like china for countries with such serious human rights problems to be so easily elected to sit on the human rights. Council tells you a lot about how seriously other member states take the issue of human rights and the desire that they have to actually advance human rights standards and principles in an objective way. The trump administration responded to some of the recommendations saying that there are no plans to shut guantanamo and that unchecked migration is dangerous they said the george floyd protests the summer led to lawlessness. This was james mcammond. Deputy undersecretary at the us department of homeland security at the review. It was with alarm and disbelief this year that we saw violent anarchist's violent opportunists in criminals. Set fire to many. Us communities kill innocent people a sale private property and target our law enforcement officers. Joanne cam ward of columbia law. School's human rights institute says ultimately the trump administration's attempt to rewrite history won't matter because its successor. The biden administration will have to deal with reality. It will be really important when we have a new administration to be prepared with some really concrete and measurable action. That's aligned again. With a globally recognized norms. The biden administration will ultimately be the one to accept or reject the recommendations since the us has until march twenty twenty one to consider them and cam afford says they'll provide important roadmap for the new president as he plans to rejoin the human rights council and the global community for the world. I'm rupa shenoy. Fighting in the northern tegray region of continues to escalate and has now hit neighboring eritrea. Yesterday the leader of grace forces confirmed they had fired rockets at the airport and trias capital over the weekend and he threatened that more will come. The escalation raises fears of a wider war in the horn of africa. Region of med. Solomon is a research fellow on the horn of africa at the london-based chatham house. So i'm ed so far. We've seen the recent violence in northern ethiopia limited within the country's borders. How did air tree get involved. The eritrean government been accused by to grind leadership religion bred number michael all getting involved in the company of supporting the federal government military operations in the region at providing supports on voda Forces as well as shell linked into tig ri- and what have is a region which has seen cyclical conflict over a number of decades. And in some ways is still feeling the aftershocks. The war fight costly in nineteen ninety. Eight two thousand between ethiopia. Nara that really cemented the hatred between the current to grind leaders. And the a train leaders that continues today. I wanna take a step back. Remind us what caused the recent violence to erupt in the tegray region. So we've had a thirty for relations for some time between the regional administration into cry and and the federal government. I think since be adleman came into into power tensions worsened. Op-ed is the current president of ethiopia. Who famously won the nobel prize last year. Current prime minister of ethiopia who won the nobel peace prize in twenty nineteen for his efforts initiating peace between ethiopia Trier off the twenty years and also for the trying to initiate broad reforms and opening of freedoms space in the country since twenty eighty relations between federal government under ib and the to grind people's liberation front was and I think the tps had been pretty much within the ethnic of federal government the leading partner for over twenty seven years and really when abby came in on the back of widespread protests in the country for a number of years that change at the had to retreat to the regional capital and a new power dynamics code in a since that have been deterioration of relations between the two and since then really both parties were de-legitimize each other's show of conflict and we led to a situation where because of covid nineteen national elections the juice behold in august were postponed complicated that school tension that was resented in integral as they went ahead and how their own unilateral elections which were unconstitutional They refuse to recognize the federal government's legitimacy and in turn the prime minister and the the government denounced the to grind elections. They cut ties with the region administration and withheld federal budget. Subsidies to the region as well do you see how things have spiraled from your vantage point. What is needed here to avoid this conflict from gathering steam across the horn of africa. I think what we've seen is that from a regional security in diplomatic perspective. You're really is a bit too big to fail I think you know. We've had considerable international concern and statements in that regard but we need coordinated diplomatic efforts in demands for a truce. And i think the united states as well as the united kingdom a to either abused largest bilateral donors and a well position religious influence and put that concerns for winners as members of the international community. I think what is needed. Both sides to moderate their extreme demons in order to come to the negotiating able seeking on the us side. I know that there is a you know. There is a transition ongoing at the moment and a lot of internal focus in us politics. But i think by ipod san backing that we've that we've been seeing and a strong message ozone from Biden would be influential and could potentially reverse some of the damage done to us relations that we saw under president trump. I've met salomon is a research fellow on the horn of africa at the london. Based chatham house thank you very much. thank you. Brazilians voted in local elections in more than fifty five hundred municipalities across the country. This weekend the biggest takeaway. It was another setback for president. Gyro bolsonaro and it comes on the heels of the electoral loss of his top ally. Us president donald trump. Michael fox has more from brazil. Did a auberge did go. Bandidos does mealy seon or if the voice sounds a little familiar. It's because you've heard it before. Just not in portuguese. Monica been issue. That's pink floyd's roger waterest telling brazilians to quote free the country from the murderers and the thieves and vote for monica benicio. She's the widow of the late. Black city councilwoman mariella franco. Who's killing in two thousand. Eighteen sparked nationwide protests and black lives matter movement in brazil. Roger waters appeal may have helped benny city council seat in sunday's local elections receiving nearly twenty three thousand votes. She's considered the first openly lesbian rio de janeiro city council member. She's one of a series of lgbtq candidates one around brazil including to trans women who garnered some of the highest numbers of votes in sao paulo. The same time we have. This election was the largest numbers of our take running in brazil. That's martha della chiesa. She's the former president of the brazilian. Lgbt tourism association. She says it seems. Lgbt candidates did well despite both does openly homophobic slurs and rhetoric which the president was spouting even last week. I think we do have a bit more understanding the society that moved on from him. Despite his rhetoric it may be a sign of bolsonaro waning. influence do not is in alito. Police la Or donald on on president. That is both enough. During a facebook live event on november twelfth encouraging supporters to vote for numerous candidates most of those candidates lost in sao paulo. Boston guy came in a dismal fourth place after leading early polls one centrist party openly rejected bolsonaro support for a mayoral candidate in a city in northern brazil saying it was unwise considering what was happening to candidates identified with bolsonaro. That candidate also came in fourth jack. Mic is a political scientist at the federal university of something that i can much jock says it seems. Bolsonaro has lost his charismatic political power. Two thousand and twenty has squashed the popularity of the president which should increase the political difficulties for both for the coming years ahead of the two thousand twenty two presidential elections. It doesn't help that bolsonaro. No longer has a party. He left his social liberal party late last year with plans to form a new far right party which he called alliance for brazil but he couldn't get registered fast enough to compete in this year's elections. That didn't dissuade dozens of supporters from trying to cash in on his name. Saw boys you on saturday. A candidate named raffles are not all supporters. Held an hour long. Facebook live event from the back of a pickup truck. He was part of a caravan riding in support of his campaign for city council in a hillside town near rio de janeiro in the video. Who wears a blue shirt with the silhouette of boston. Outer space etched across the front was one of more than forty candidates registered to run in local elections with bolsonaro in their names. Brazilians are allowed to include their nicknames. On the ticket there was even a donald trump bolsonaro in a small town in southern brazil though. A local electoral court disqualified him from running because he couldn't prove that he was actually known by that name. A lot of these bolsonaro link candidates did not do well. Boston arrows own son. Carlos was re elected to rio city council but with thirty five thousand less votes in two thousand and sixteen. That however doesn't mean the country's political right is losing speed. here's political scientists. Jack's mic janetta. Present the apple citadel and says as sort of jesus he says even though the icon of the right president bush has been defeated or as candidates. Did not do well in general. The right is well position with even more robust compositions than the left at this moment. But the election wasn't a blowout for the right. The workers party held ground the progressive socialism and liberty party peso which grew out of the workers party in the early two thousands picked up important seats across the country and it tripled its city council members in sao paulo. Supporters cheered for pace soul. Mayoral candidate gary bowlers. The leader of the homeless workers movement after he voted on sunday. Bullets is headed for a runoff with center right incumbent mayor bruno kovas bolos has been on the receiving end of a campaign of attacks and fake news looking to smear his reputation so manuela davi them a young charismatic communist party candidate who was also headed for a mayoral run off election in portalegre. The southernmost state capital at xanthos does is overseen scholar mantle movement for all of your listeners. She told supporters last week. I'm so sorry that you've been victims of this campaign of so many attacks so many lies so much disqualification and so much. This is political gender violence. That's what us women call. I am subjected to manuela is fairly high profile. She was the vice presidential candidate for the left against bolsonaro in two thousand and eighteen last week. A regional court ordered that ninety one links to false claims about her be taken down from social media sites. It's a sign that even if bolsonaro influence is waning the smear tactics that were rolled out in his presidential campaign and used by. The far-right are still being employed. And they're likely to continue as brazilians look toward the runoff elections. Later this month and two two thousand and twenty two when bolsonaro will do his best to win a second term for the world. I'm michael fox. Imploding up to this. Brazil you rely on the world for a daily dose of global connection need just a little more sign up for our newsletter the top of the world. That's the world dot org slash newsletters. You're listening to the world if you've got a case of the monday blues this next story is for you. A group of left leaning politicians and labor organizations have sent an open letter to leaders of the eu as well as president elect. Joe biden their demand a four day workweek. They argue that switching to a four day workweek has environmental and mental health benefits and could potentially help countries recover from the economic impact of the coronavirus pandemic. Joe rile is a campaigner at four day week. Uk one of the signatories of the letter. First of all. Joe when we say a four day workweek what are we talking about. Is it people working forty hours but longer days just four days or fewer working hours overall. It's few canals. I've so we're campaigning. For four day working week which would be about thirty two hours. Men on average workers will in the us k. Walking around forty hours and which hasn't changed very much since about nineteen eighty so long overdue a change. And what we've seen. Is that this new. If grace automation and new technology of that was we were promised that we're gonna. It was gonna ask to have more free time as notchy happen. Says it's about time we will work. Less to share work equals the economy. But it would also involve less money. It wouldn't people have to take a pay cut campaigning for four day week of no pay for workers and where most organizations have been says. There have already made a switch before it is the model that they've used and how that's possible is that essentially put simply goes up when people are working. That's you know. I don't think many people will find it surprising to know that. When you're i've watched some bun out you become might divisive welcomed As job jobsites this huge business. Aquifer is that productivity will go off nut that allows people what less. Now it's interesting is your letter. That is arguing for a four day. Workweek it says it can help countries recover from the economic impacts of the coronavirus pandemic. How would that work so go at the moment is you've got millions of people being made unemployed but at the same time millions of people over employment and working t much what we found in the uk anyways that people seem to be working more hours of kite. Because there's not very many checks and balances when people working at home and so how. This works is the over history. In tons of procession and crisis shorts working has been influenced the share weekly of course the economy. And that's rebound insist economy. The job you're talking about are are mostly kind of white collar jobs and so much of at least the. Us economy service. How does it apply service economy. So it's definitely easier to implement white collar jobs but there's no reason why company implements months blue trump's. Let's take a stuff. My head wasn't service sites like a cafe or restaurant. We have work as their times. But that doesn't mean that it's not possible with just means that you have to be a bit. More clever with the ship passes the restaurant and cafes open but that workers are also give enough time off. So they're not over. What seems too good to be true. The working less could actually improve the economy. I mean critics say that reduced working hours would actually slow economies down and worker. Productivity would go down. Actually i mean. What is the evidence that wouldn't happen in japan where mike software dancer four-day working week and productivity by four percent. I know that buffa the social media organization. America's just gone a four day week. We speak to them and so far. It seems to work out very well. All of the work is still being done. The targets is still being met but yet work as much happier and healthier lives on so dominated by work joe. Riley is a campaigner for four day week uk. They recently signed onto an open letter to leaders of the you as well as president elect joe biden calling for a four day workweek. Thanks a lot joe. Thank you one of the most important telescopes in the world is on the brink of collapse after two. Supporting cables snapped the cbo observatory. Puerto rico is a popular tourist destination. An essential tool for hundreds of scientists around the world. The nine hundred tonne platform containing the telescope could crash down unless the cables are repaired or replaced above. The mendez is an astronomer at the university of puerto rico. He uses the telescope for his research. About how precarious is the situation at the observatory. Right now. i mean. Are you worried yes. Totally worry about the situation right now. When they're first cable fail. I was nuts dot worry because it was a smaller cable. I thought that he might take just a few months to repair. But now the second favor was the main tables and Now they wait the platform. Those cable have to withstand the way where. They're not bill for that much weight. So that's very critical right now. Why is the observatory so important for your research or we went to the stand. The impact of the radiation environment of star. Some stars are very stable like our sun. Other stars are very active constantly. In meeting those radiation. So i have been monitoring from data civil civil authority on these app. The stars in the last four years looking for the best start for habitable planets scientists from all over. The world rely on this telescope for their work. What would the impact be. If this telescope were lost a receivables still the biggest must powerful later in the war this feature used to study asteroids so therefore at a civil is the best east remains to study the properties of threat three of any potentially hazards estermann door after judy a new. Ask janine to learn the proper. It's like the change the size. So that tells you how much damage could cause. There's imbed into our atmosphere Thousands of tourists come to visit the odyssey observatory every year beyond its scientific significance. How important is the observatory to puerto ricans people about tori is say icon import the rico and he also helped many people to get a bold in science careers. For example for me my first was when i was ten years all to observatory. I had a wonderful experience because one of those scientists their took me around the servants already announced. Totally interests is evident picture. You talk about. He doesn't bear a been there because he's so huge. I know the observatory is asking the national science foundation for twelve and a half million dollars in repair funding. What is being done to stabilize the structure. And do you think at this point. It can be saved. Where are this moment with information that we have. This structure is not safe. Those cable are we standing more weight that they will bill saw. I know our engineer from puerto rico and the us are serving this situation trying to figure out how to stabilize the structure. But at this point. I don't think there's a he is not an issue of money no matter how much money you have latest. Is that even that if you dissolution just to build more cables. Those cables takes a lot of time to build so time. Now he's creepy call. I know they're trying to us again. About mendez is an astronomer at the university of puerto. Rico he's been speaking to us from cibo. Thank you so much. Thank you my pleasure. The world comes to from the nan. Bill harris studio at gbh in boston. You can find us online anytime at the world dot org. I'm carol hills marco. Werman will be back with you tomorrow.

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The Top Ten Fastest Drummers in Metal

The Loudini Rock and Roll Circus

1:08:51 hr | 1 year ago

The Top Ten Fastest Drummers in Metal

"Time and this show is a special dedication to the very first rock drummer superstar of all time Ginger Baker stick around your they say speed kills well not today today we're counting down and telling the stories of the fastest rock and metal drummers of all oh even matter what it is all all the songs anything you request I was going to go to that but somebody kept me up way too late tonight before that's not my problem who our our long time sponsor fan Chris Thunder Wolf Dotson Wolf's customs get your guitar customer Alah Como Esta that's all I know don't tell me to say anymore I did not do why did go to the great white shown didn't see the drive home dude so that is what I did this weekend and I'm actually MC are not seeing on guitars like you know who wants to play guitar that looks like everybody else's guitar you WanNa stand out you gotta put on that show get yourself a custom paint job in Wolf's customs we have started something new as well The Lou Dini rock and roll circus musicians mastermind is is up and going online as well great white this weekend because it was my sister's birthday so we were at held the piano bar and how was that getting our dance on having fun doing good things they know every song dot online and shout out to rock Ridge radio as well for a being an affiliate and having our using out there all over the world and you go through my link at jam play so guys check all that out I've said all that just to say that I have the lovely and talented Miss Lily von six and I apologize guys because it did go down for a few hours this week I know all of you were like freaking out it's back just chill you can find out more about that at Lucchini rock and Roll Circus Dot Com I am that's co hosted with Carey Jack's k. all the way from in the video description below and we will put it in the show notes as well and I'll be hosting it everywhere but I'm getting a twenty five percent off we aided by Goto going to Wolf's customs dot online and Kit yourself set up with a just a very cool there's all kind of really cool custody jolly old England and he would slap me for that horrible British Accent invitation right there so we can check that Lucchini rock and roll circus dot com shout out where are upgrading things and changing things around things are just getting better all the time so good looney rock and roll circus dot com tons of cool stuff there Eh oh my gosh I'm guest bartending at the South Pine next Saturday for the Hell's bells show which is all female fronted bands so you should come to that next Saturday yeah okay just a real shot on as well to champ lay who is sort of become our sponsor as well you can go to there's a link in the video description before and the confront me non long about this birthday party day you're fired she had an eighty six ounce drink so that's a drink fight everybody welcome back to Lou Daime rock and Roll My name is Lou Lombardi Aka Lou Dini also on my friends I'll call about as big as you're heading it as big as your head gets she was comparing nice yeah it was a good time I did not get drunk but I had fun get out Dini even lily. V6 caused me Dany once in a while novelty you're listening Dini rock and roll circus our website is Lucchini rock and roll circus DOT COM and come to I don't want to say too much about it but there's this band playing at the Sub Alpine on November second they're called twenty thousand coming Saturday I'm still on the weekend all right all recently Monday I got you that that sounds like a great thing I wanNA give a shoutout announcement to the old Dix I hear that they're really good and I'm GonNa be at the show checking them out at the sub Alpine so you guys might be interested in checking that out maybe maybe my Thursday show tonight I interviewed Jay Johnson who is the promoter for scare a con which is a horror convention up in Rochester New York on the awesome we're GONNA come back and start our shell about the speediest drummers in rock and metal metal at first but then we know we've got a lot of rock fans to nineteenth eight hundred eighty eight thousand nine hundred nineteenth and twentieth so the interview will be on Thursday show and you'll get to find out about what's going on there that sounds freaking Komo me's so we're GONNA get into tonight's topic a few minutes any other sort of announcements or anything you want to say before we yes is it but this is a great band this band is like you know how they say like bread is a staple of the Diet or you know whatever rain of Z is like a staple of the Lucchini rock and roll circus been playing them almost since the beginning I freaking love this band I can do what they what what date the eleventh I think no that's his Senate and that's what you said next Saturday that's coming Saturday breath we're gonNA touch on a few rock guys as well and get into the whole speed thing it's a thing in itself so we'll get into that in a minute but speaking of speed yeah yeah The Hawk in the house is well tonight. We're talking about drummers so of course we've got to bring in the Hawk so what's going on Hawk meister you're you're you've you've more drinking less eating yes I used to do that my twenty s was great that's reign of Zee on the Latini rock and roll circus and we have look at that sometimes people just fit that description like what does this person he problem I'm GonNa slap them in the mouth is kick freaking ass and I say this every week Zo say if you ever need to guitar player in a right here all right guys check rein sie reflections on the Lou Dini rock and roll circus usually they're breathing I'm mad at them like they're like less of you listen wait on their tail yeah nothing really working though I really just start to like go to the point where five don't eat than its kind of drumming I think it's hard and it's probably harder than most shit back and pull off but same time it's like I'm more of a groove pocket guide get sick or if I drink too much that's bad too so I just can't ever really find anything that really works for me did you ever notice eight to say you ever noticed I don't know too many fat alcoholics and I'm going to not direction I think so in other words so we're going to get into the whole drummer thing let's talk about this because you made a really good comment on facebook about this and speed is everything right it's like guitar playing speed and that's why I said in the thing like I don't want you guys posting like Oh well this guy and Youtube we can play ten thousand BPM on a snare they they're awesome awesome to me and that's that's what I'm going to put out a key I think in the same way with any kind of you know being a great book who can play Fat Guitar Faster Drums fast or whatever but what are you doing with it like how are you creating something emotional technical player is to also bring something musical to what you're doing you know I mean there's a lot of guys you know they're all over youtube and face one-dimensional like I'm not sure you know some of these guys I'm sure they could play more than that but that's all you see them do and I don't know exactly I'd have to see somebody the dinner twenties to nominate Duma forties and try to see how a little bit about about the whole speeding drumming what would I my initial comment on the whole thread was I'd rather listen to Steve Jordan playlist ops but he's not just you know being a snare drum it a thousand or whatever are you in a song because addressed is because he's because Keith Hawk is an awesome drummer committed to the groove so don't know enough about these bands names written down but I've also just started to like a road maybe four or five that really really fast I'm not really sure think about what's going to make me get the hell out of what I'm doing I'm not there's not working then you know you have to be able to play I think any guys I was to have been influenced by have been more that drummer I've researched acuity players in it's pretty pretty sick how fast zoos Compla- you know what's going on man I'm sorry I'm late I had to take care of the ball thing people need to be down but in and I'm hearing I'm ready to roll some people need to beat down they do I'm trying to be addicted metal drums oddness don't play metal at this point in my life I mean to me I've tried to make a living metals GonNa make me a living and I I respect with the last two three hundred beats a minute and you're sitting enter planted in her basement of your mom's house then and you're applying any gigs I mean that's great it's impressive but same time the expert in his field let's talk about a drummer who's real who's fast who you go like yeah but that also bad ass like he's got he's got the were and I'd like this was in one thousand nine eight you know so it is like it's a but it's not just about speed for him it's about you know is he kind of has the whole package go on these very I remember my forties I don't have those memories always were thick something so we've got the it is also very musical when you players and that's what I like you know it's not just be the all time it seems like really some of these metal guys not that plays multiple genres well is doing himself was a very very big favor it bearable it's like some Catherine maybe try to do something a little less extreme on oh the topic is faster but sometimes you have to if you check him out he can play the whole base with the best known but he's also a very musical and grew simple he has a simple like a prototype degrees one his take it seems like almost like an athletic competition I mean they've got both feet going all the armed going there would it is with people just see a person that basically just don't look at you you just wanted like beat the shit out of him they need to be there need to beaten that's like everybody any progressive rock band more to make could probably tell you more of the stuff you did I remember seeing them in the clinic and I was like blown away by how fast is feed actually like give it another give me something else you know what I mean can they khanate do something besides Glaspie to three hundred beats them in areas a lot of guys are fast man I mean it's hard to beat a fast yeah you look like you've lost weight dude you're right yeah no photos of you on facebook macbrayne of course from iron maiden whom I love that banned I feel like I mentioned I band every single time we're on the show but you know with good reason I can't imagine the kind of stamina it takes to play some of this stuff it's definitely stay on the thing but it's also you have to be able to play loose and not tensing up that's you're not gonNA play that fast lecture completely in that in that zone at just not possible I mean if you're in a tense up we're doing a lot of like you'll toe kinda technique you have to be very relaxed there's a lot of technical Jorgen to it but at the same time being relaxed and just being ailing everywhere and try you know they're obviously they've got to keep the time and they've got a rock band I mean what let's let's have this hawk in on it okay so obviously I don't know shit about drumming other than what I hear that's not my department that's more keys lose department more Keith's but Keith's so a lot of these will not a lot of them probably about half of them I actually knew and then some of them I looked up so the first one I'm GonNa throw out there ah he played in a band called planet expert longtime which like Prog rock band and also a lot of his own a Virgin Virgin Doni has a lot of his own solo projects it's the same way playing any musical instruments for sure and the piano is well Lilley has has a list why don't you rattle something off here and this you know it's everybody wants to she wanted to go around the room a little bit but may basically I wanNA know because you are it's what gets people slot that's what makes people sloppy at times where they just kind of tense up too much and they don't relax when ray right right right it's the same way with with there's a there's technique to like you people can call it you know what they want I mean it's like a lot of interesting your hands fingers feet feet enter the picture yeah it's Drogheda his death where he's making his bread and butter in his drumming but he kind of grooves like just pretty simple a cop at times and then let's it grew standpoint of things I think that you know lot of people loved him as an influential rock and metal drummer I'm from Nile who I'm going to be seeing pretty soon he actually also teaches at the modern music school in Athens and he's a self taught Roberson j.j twelve and landrover thirty-five years there's there's new guys seeing all the time I know Nikko is from way back in the day what I include them in like the fastest numbers ever heard I wanna feet joined the pro the party it's you know it's all it's gets gets kinda chaotic but he's really plan a lot of different stuff in his feet word it's like it's just not speed either you know so that that's Kinda drummer opiates Krakatoa play Kaethe edgy played in the uh-huh we'll talk we'll talk more about that later we should talk about we're going to see I want you to talk about Ginger Baker a little bit later on we're going to get into that do show lilly were you don't mention iron no okay so I will not I need a lover of Nico Mic macbrayne macbrayne yeah like brain like this in an top speed probably naughty has like the like a lot of English farmer`steward I play the more single pedal and just have buried like John Bonham kind of like everybody whatever I looked because I wasn't sure if he was one of the fastest but everyone says he is one of the fastest whenever I looked on what's his name again My Excuse me George Cole. EES's Greek sleigh prog rock band the planet X. Zone Band I mean is a guy who might not be too fast Burger Benatti Zeke off on anybody's list what do you think of Nico macbrayne Nick Nick Yeah I definitely everybody like I said everybody has their own dependence on these people I was looking up today and I never even heard of before listening to the Lou Dini rock and roll circus changing rack history one podcast at a time what we're GONNA get into that so who she got into The other one I want to mention that I absolutely knew was George Coleus Coleus and what's the name of the Band Nile Nile are they Greek band no they're in America because we've actually played some Greek bands on the show I I did look up him teaching a lesson on Youtube or something like what technique he stuff like he does where he put just at the camera and his faith and it's off the charts what's the key really Keith two that double kick thing I hate to be like who the hell they are I just seen him play for like thirty seconds I'm like what is pretty impressive some of the other ones that wrote down or Smile to my favorite metal drummer that doesn't mean you have to be fastest but he they sounded very slim river German before nick which I should know this I've completely blanket on it but that a very similar style that's you know that's the guy that's like I said coming from a more who that is Keith I looked I looked him up dusting other guys mentioned in my have heard his name before like I said I'm not a huge fan of that kind of music so I don't really it's it's definitely if I go straight up and down he's more side the Siamese like playing he was he was thirty two hundred beats a minute when he was playing grooves or in claim with the okay so we covered cluber that's he's dead Clive bird he is dead day day day to hear that today double pedal he had his one foot facet and probably I can have my wow he has an instructional dvd to called intense metal drumming that that approach is going to double kick going on there even the guide for him was was that guy's name plated before him live from his instructional video and is pretty sick man yeah there's like the play that fast and just know it and it's clean as hell I mean he's definitely got ripping them this technique is just pretty much for sure that I'll give him that yeah definitely wanted to factor guys I've seen I mean just like going through a few of the guys that I mean those guys I knew that were you know textbook how's everybody says is fast fans were just you know guys that just aren't great hard rock metal drummers but yeah he has a couple of date if those experts on youtube ridiculous yeah I mean that's learning fast guys I've ever heard and he plays like almost like his feeder doing side this hour I'm talking about like people like all the techniques stuff words whatever works for you GonNa say I'm being like a jerk like practice man I mean it's just I honestly I ever heard which brings us up later Perth overheard Miss Yoga I like I said are on his list but as a person I've seen back in way back in the late nineties at margin were festival was barely known and he's going on to the thing when someone has that degree of facility on an instrument where it's Drums Guitar Bass Piano frigging recorder whatever you play that lunatic drummer I'm like that's shit is ridiculous he planned it and his feet that I couldn't play my hands I mean that's just locking yourself away in sacrificing your life just he had no idea how to use two bass drum before yes two bass drums before and prior to being Morbid Angel and he practiced in practice and practice and now he's ears and hours just practicing double bass technique you're not gonna get that good without practicing of anybody out there wants to play that fast you know someone that's just Jaakko path aureus you know someone that's at good at their instrument to their whole world and not just playing fast he plays intricate rhythms in his feet and it's pretty silly like how out there he can take it but you're not gonna get that way that's years years and years of just putting your nose to the grindstone is dated outmanned just playing over and over same shit I know you were talking about like sort of sacrificing everything for your technique and and just to draw a little comparison on the guitar a hard on getting stuff together on the guitar that like you know his wife was like see you know so it happens I mean he's he's a great guitar player can actually play faster than a preprogrammed drum machine so are you familiar with their music at all kief Morbid Angel Listen Vice listen to Morbid Angel that was back some are I read it in an interview with Eric Johnson who said that you it ruined the marriage because he was oh yeah man so one of the ones I definitely knew was Mike Portnoy from dream theater this is a lot of people mentioned Mike Portnoy and I know key let the biggest Mike Portnoy Fan but talk about it gun talk about me you know the drummer go ahead James Van I loved the death metal band names their logos are the worst but that's okay let's let's run Robin I'd like definitely has his own style I mean so I believe that someone like I said no matter if you're from Shogo Jerry Johnson all the way to fricken really throw another one out since Keith was talking about practicing one of the fastest drummers in the death metal scene is actually Pete Sandoval from terrorizing and Morbid Angel Music is a calling it's not something you just do you know I mean you know you have in mind media you know how you know how it is so let's the balances Nice but yes someone like that that's that I'll never be that good of double Bass I can start now and practice for hundred years now they won't be breaking good those rhythms I mean in like I said in his feet are in its he's his feet or just as good as Bari better than a lot of people's hands right right where it's I'm not saying it's easy to play a blast be three hundred beats minute but that sucks really straight where Thomas Hockey can play things that are a little bit more poly rhythmic and everyone who's and one more by Keith and we're GonNa play another song what do you got going to run one more oh I thought you I thought you meant keeps going to go next when I had more when I have more hair yeah I had it too morbid angel he's like the super fast yeah he's no longer and more morbid angel like Oh he got a lot of drums and he plays a lot of symbols and he gave replayed dream theater in us that's awesome and that whatever man it's GonNa be every it's going to be everything to him but I decided to take that a little bit of time that really don't want my wife told me to go I try to try to keep it somewhat we're still being inappropriate wale the lawyers told him no because they hired the other guy who I'm going to talk about I couldn't really find why but he's still doing terrorize your stuff so terrorized ed he's somebody's bans some some of the best I mean that's me saying that I'm like I mean it's it's hard for me to even say that I like my porn I don't think he's a musical drummer at all I think that a lot of people get caught up in this whole it's these people that's that's a lot of sacrifice man the good get good on the instrument yeah I mean it's probably their entire entire world they probably just I mean I think sometimes I get the love affair with Mike Portnoy is because people love dream theater so they just like assuming Mike Portnoy must be great you think that's what it is drums are set up weird it's like a guy that you just have to watch. He has a very unconventional setup he I can see why he's perfectly I kind of bands Lucchini rock and Roll Circus Manzini and Portnoy Aldridge in Larkin so we are mentioned portnoy and you're kind of like no part and we talk about Mangini Manzini highlighter extreme which I thought was pretty cool James Lebron Steve Vai so he's kind of how well if you play with Steve Vai well rounded you can't be a frigging you gotta be about because Early College of music and between two thousand and two thousand two thousand and five he set the set five world's fastest drummer records and drumming is would they were dream theater and he sounds great I think you sound better playing that stop when play straight rock and roll or with Lonnie dogs yeah he sound I sound better he talk we can talk about that guy I was talking about that guy who is who is that guy who is that what's his name Mike Mangini tell me about my okay because Mark Sam Buco typed your some people that are on your list okay okay good on that and we're gonNA play a band right now this is the revolution I way young and wild I think they might have played with those guys and I just didn't I don't I don't think you weren't feeling it now do you have a lot of little bio on as far as placements for somebody yeah like very popular I've heard the cord play cover tunes with the without the on May men men Gina Gina currently the drummer for prog metal band dream theater following the departure of my Portnoy in two thousand ten he's also played with an ability only instrument that kind of technique you're really going to have to put some work in I mean that's that's no joke I mean these guys put their lights and heart and soul into the stuff in Masaki he plays the Drummer Michaud GonNa show Ya again another man I don't like the style but I mean I give credit where credit's due that's very impressive to be able to play sound better plan that stuff when he plays proc to be it sounds forced like I heard him play with a big was Tony Levin Steve Stevens Yeah is warming up they call they call him the man genius he's one of those guys that just like I've seen him play the solo researched real simple and it's stupid on like it's almost unfair that someone could be that good in your e where where a lot of damage won't trailing their hands you're gonNA play that style of music that's just yeah and speak over twelve hundred beats per minute which is fast becoming beads their wing beat their wings. We're GONNA come back in a minute and I want Keith I want you to talk about some aw we uh-huh I couldn't I never heard him playing outside of brock I'd probably give a shit of the ever played anything else out he's coming back again someone with that kind of interest in yeah the guide solve a sudden he's leading what has left an on symbols laden with his right hand cymbals as his speeder going one hundred million miles an hour his survive and I think the kick ass so that is revolutionized where we opened the show with rain of Z. We're talking about drummers and speed not the drug speech I follow terrence POPs Youtube Channel and fell in love immediately soon as I hear them I love that sort of like blues based heavy southern rock him but but like I would explain why like what do you think about it okay because it's about him being a fat I don't think you've heard I wouldn't even consider him in a pen uh-huh so keith we before we left for to play some revolution I way I said why don't you come up with why don't you tell us who's on your list the album it sounds great okay so what who's on your list there's no thunderstorms in the area tonight that's probably what it is who's on your list big uh-huh I think it's really funny when I call somebody nursing and what are you drank and drinking a Moscow it revolution highway everybody I discover those guys on a advertisement on a youtube channel he's Walser really good with with with movies so but whatever you do don't tell them you like the movie the relic because you'll never live it down to hold on a second nurse lied damn no no Lily V6 Oh we're talking about the sort of value behind speed and how do it the right way in a way that's musical versus just like sitting down on your snare drum and trying to play as fast as you can I want to do with the animal way animal he plays rock drums like rock drums both be played he hits the drums man with attitude his his single like I said his single single pedal technique is really really solid very fiery chops and Just an all around like just firecracker behind the kidneys I'm GonNa go I'm GonNa go here with a guy that's known for Double Bass playing actually single based playing really really tasteful and it's pretty damn fast and he's played with some bands might not be and didn't looks like he's completely relaxed the same time a very lethal combination if you want to be good at something making keys even though it's not exactly well it's crystal clear there's no like weird sal you're not cutting out whatever you're doing if when you come on in a future do that I didn't do anything I think his background which is you know not getting off the metal published those speed topic is if you ever like research there's a website I don't think it's and because we can kind of like having we've been doing is having lily throw some out there and Keith Common Keith are sort of Louis resident kind of rock historian Keith our audience like likes what if discovered is people that like like good music tend to like a lot of different at least they'll give co I'm like what I call sophisticated for unsophisticated dude I see I don't know what you're doing tonight but we can hear you so freaky nitrous there right now drinking drinking vodka Martinis which are going down very smooth which I won't be able to rock is popular novels called Gospel Chops Dot Com and had all these like African American drummers that were from discharges that were so fast it was so flashy oh energy and he's just the look I mean they're mathematically looks like an all around Nice Dude and just dead he looks like he's having a ton of fun playing the drums and he's also with other styles of music too you know if you like fast picking you're GonNa you know you're gonNA look the fast guys in rock but you're probably GONNA dig some bluegrass and tone in the mainstream namely to Mars Volta I'm GonNa go with this cat palmist prison Thomas to me is is a very light ep the and so like but it is fond a lot of now famous drummers that got really good gates from this whole like sort of Gospel chops five like Eric more or even Tony Royster it was his break for Martini guys wait a minute and superb lepres you can't really meant you can't really do a drumming podcast without me that's all right in West Virginia really fast but in so as you know this random trailer or some shit like that and it's the same way with a Lotta different things to try speed I mean listen to death metal drummer listening to ahrends fears plays GonNa be it's speed it's just a different kind the frank zappa alumni and he doesn't play with extreme that's pretty straightforward so I would I would actually like to hear that and he actually was a faculty member also has fiery tasty chops and but groups simple groups fast with just like if you do it the entire do something the entire song we should do a a a shell possibly on bands the best bands mix extreme singing with melodic with Jay Z. These guys were super fast don't play a lot of double bass they're not meddle God where they played super fast and it's like a whole lot exactly what what I think Pratt we will being I David O or slayer I think really he's been another slayer a couple times I don't know what happened there but they had all off I think was numbered like they all yeah yeah that's very cool when somebody can do that was very awesome but talk promise program play with the Mars Volta and he's done a lot of stuff that was a couple of other bands I think he might have sat in with that first of all what I don't understand the lyrics man I'm turning it off I don't care I'm I can't do it I've gotten better at understanding the lyrics for these toys loses the effect of May so when he just put when he sprinkled in slowly like anything else Semitic creates facts I mean that's what I think they will player listen angel death metal ran track that's all you need when he has look on a second I gotta Try Martini often you go back to the more melodic thing I mean I mean I know you don't you Brooke very little extreme singing Menasco just like what we like I think we should play were into a new age people we've been talking about but somebody's Daimaru been around and they laborious guy to that fast I don't want to hear extreme singing the whole time but I kinda dig when it kicks in and assert placing ads like an emotional quality to it and then back on yeah and guys like that just totally burn that crap up so all right so what else you got another guy I think is really one it does well he doesn't have to double bass the entire time you know but he kind of grooves very well some of these have you listened to liquid metal on then I'm Gonna I'm GonNa try to translate what I think go towards actually trying to say to the world it'll be Keith Goad horror style that's what I think and I think we should often do this to where where are they now throw a challenge question often somebody and then you and why you don't have like your smoking jacket on that clock guys like drinking wine sometimes and I'll walk Mortiz a show in the future where we take death metal bands that you don't understand a word sandwich flourishing in front of you and make up our own lyrics so we play we play a part of the song the kid from Washington it's good little young drummer this this guy would be probably my age forty ish at this point his first name was avery he was in a metal band that dude has and we say I think he's saying where he him or her saying this you know Sachin my bought all you take you know Gore and I don't understand anything ago her saying yes I mean some of the I mean they play band after band it's like that's what I mean that's impressive to play that fast but I mean if it's the entire song I mean I'm not sure if he did acquaintance donate stint seem to go through a lot of musicians but it's one of those these more as like hard rock kind of Prague is that can just play seriously fast speed I have no idea what his last name was that anybody knows avery whatever out there I challenge you tell me who the hell that was he's take lessons off Lou Ross his other men genie portnoy and so forth Billy Jordan says Georgia's amazing Tom proctors watching Lombardi's watching I am I do watch sometimes and Rock Ridge Radio but we don't have any crazy comments today other than people love us as usual Bill Damiano Billy Altman thank you Lee Carey she loves her videos Raider and you'll ely marksman Buco says Nicole rocks then he named you give some shout outs to maybe some of the folks that are watching and if there's any kind of crazy comments you want to say like anybody tell ourselves we nobody ever sells us that but I saw as well for hanging out I saw that you guys were I hate Keith I wanNA tell you because you've been around a while billy the show so off that's one aside but whoever anybody in the metal scene knows who avery whatever's last name was that request surge we're gonNA come back in a minute and and James Gentry Tim Paul John Scanlon Timothy Miza wits if I pronounce your name wrong I'm sorry Tony Manning says let's Rock Jim ash hearkens Donald it's not because there's some bands that do that like the butcher babies there's some bands do that pretty cool I like this the same way with extreme singing it kind of want you to I want Keith I want you to talk about Ginger Baker I don't WanNa talk about Ginger Baker I'm glad you're on you could talk about them so what I want lily to do if you don't mind can I'm just I'm sorry somebody's comment click the thing it starts didn't like musical genius Guy Kinda that's not that's not use the word French that you worked so he straightens us out musically if I say something like you know savored all-time mill drummers I think was named a few thousand dollars list but I guess get no I'll do it listen to one tuna notice guy his feeder pretty fast Dave Lombardo from Exim Buco Chris under with Dodson and Raven are on a rat rod says what's up Lou Miguel Rivera says he has a shot of whiskey or maybe that's you the show was he reviewers out there anybody listening in from actually locally in Pittsburgh there there used to be a band which I don't know name Drummer Bam first name was avery it's not that remote what kind of level in that style it you're GonNa it's GonNa take you year that's just awesome overnight I mean that's somebody that just just spent days and years when I did and what you do on some shit loop Roy we know either liberty might might I'll I like your comments like three seconds ago so sorry about that they've embarked Dave Lombardo's weren't 'em like a high point at these old metal drummers you want were super fast and they all kick ass I think Dave did another band rippin operated I think where he acts he added to his get on that happy note this is Mississippi bones we'll be right back and we're gonNA talk about Ginger Baker when we come back Ullman is now telling bill domino go to bed bill that's the thing really that's pretty good all right billy aw did you see smack yeah this Michael superdome sandbox I love that band that's Mississippi is it too what makes plans sure I am away eh show really good rock heavy kind of like a kind of a rob Zombie kind of thing going on and on a monster MAG member monster magnet and immediately I love guys anyways guys you know what I have not done and I need to do this real quick before we move on the bands we have and I just I just discovered them accidentally like they played on like a wet spotify playlist or something just showed hard records has a ton of awesome bands we've played on the podcast in the past so check it out and that was Mississippi Bones Mississippi Doc the documentary Beware Mr Baker is amazing I think shows you all you need to know I'd see a lot of parallels in his life the mind owns from Akron there but his so killer everyone of their records like all killer no filler it's just we open rain of Z Z dot com then we played some revolution highway that's groove yard records dot com bax late backslash revolution Iway groove bones dot band camp dot com okay so we talk we're talking about drummers and this week we had a kind of a historic thing happened Ginger Baker probably like the first what like rock drummer superstar Kinda guy right like maybe even before Keith Boon maybe I mean who is already happening but in terms of being a drummer like Blam was like in your like a key pretty cool thing but somebody somebody before actually called him the godfather of Drum Solos I don't agree with that but I think that his ability to Sir but he was definitely one of those guys that and he wasn't afraid to play I'm not saying overplayed what he played fills man I mean he played a lot of pills her back Nevada which is cool stone her where I grew faster stuff that has more than anything in there both of you will be sorely missed you watch any of the videos from Earl I think what got him a lot of attention was his sort of like very over the top sort of you know attitude and he was you know it was the best ever just asking me would probably tell you Erin he was very tasteful when it's playing but at the same time it's probably won't make any sense but at the same time he was very like you to new heights but I think after like cremated stop went blind faith was abandoned ultra Wildcard Hawk win He was in a band called mattress reality we PSYCHEDELIA and get away with everybody saw but when I listened to some of that now I'm like you know I think that like this is blasphemy I know and he's had a ton of bands he was a notch dummy I think cream being a super group with two other great musicians indefinitely propelled it's so over the top I mean everybody's soloing everybody plays their own way yeah I gotta go you gotTa go which you probably know was actually a cool band that I saw a revolving door of people so ginger Baker's airforce was another band resents Baker like the least and he passed away what eighty years old right lily yes he was eighty unfortunately for ginger that's a great song and can be done that's the testimony to like a Great Song Crossroads blows it can be done in I'm teen different ways and if you're a good agenda Baker's airforce off win I'm trying to think I have something

Lou Dini Portnoy Aldridge Ginger Baker Mike Mangini Lucchini rock Latini rock Dany Lucchini Keith Steve Vai Jay Johnson Senate terrence Rochester James Lebron Steve Vai Zee Mark Sam Buco Gina Gina