20 Episode results for "Toni"

Visionary: Toni Morrison

1A

37:46 min | 1 year ago

Visionary: Toni Morrison

"This message comes from n._p._r. Sponsor indeed if you're hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions then zero in on on your short list of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started at indeed dot com slash n._p._r. Podcast this is one a. I'm kimberly adams from marketplace sitting in for joshua joshua johnson in washington this week. The world lost a seer. I have a place that is mine. That's my work. When i write that's mine. It is free on. Nobody tells me what to do and i wouldn't listen if they i did that was author toni morrison the legendary writer died monday night at age eighty eight in new york state of complications from pneumonia morrison and was the first ever african american woman to win the nobel prize in literature. She authored eleven novels along with children's books and essay collections. Her novel beloved won the pulitzer prize in nineteen eighty eight. She made an indelible mark on american letters and america's understanding of itself through the lens of the black american experience agreeance she wrote from within the culture about the culture culture and for the culture and her work has affected the world. We asked you to tell us how toni morrison's work work had an impact on you. Here's some of what you had to say. This is jan from colorado. I was introduced to tony's writing with the boost die when i was in college college and i thought her writing was d- most exquisite i had ever which then years later i read beloved and i thought that was the most exquisite novel i had ever read years later. I worked in the film industry and my last film was the love it. I had the honor to meet her <music>. All i didn't get to speak to her. She came to that and i got to be around her for a moment and i'm really really sorry at her. Passing there was none like toni morrison. My name is jodie and i was devastated to hear of toni morrison's passing her body of work is transformative formative and meaningful impactful and when i discovered her writings and james baldwin writings ratings if it changed my life and career riding reaches people across all race religion and creed everything there she just was an interesting magnificent person i will miss telling him more and i and her legacy of literature will live on. That's how we keep living. I feel guilty. See i'm a teacher. I read every summer. I try to read one of her books. Every summer and i didn't this year but i will continue resting tease. The world has loss of great laureate but her literature your stories and your remembrances of tony morrison we'll drive today's show so as we discuss her life and legacy to help us with that. I'm joined now by dana williams. She's a professor of african american literature at howard university and the chair of the the english department. She also serves as the president of the tony morrison society dana welcome back to one a. Thank you for having me and from a studio. At smith college professor paula giddings she is a professor emeritus of african african studies at smith college and author of several books including when and where i enter the impact impact of black women on race and sex in america and the book ida a sword among lions ida b wells and the campaign against lynching. She worked at random in house publishing alongside morrison paula welcome to one a. Thank you good to be here paula. Let's start with you you as as well as dana new tony morrison as a mentor mentor and colleague paula. How are you dealing with this. News has been a very difficult <hes> few days as you can imagine but <hes> but i've been hearing from so many people you know tony with her work and her mentorship created a community and we are all talking to each other now and remembering <hes> about remembering things about toning about our relationship to her so that's been a positive part of of these days but very very difficult to the world is a different place now dana. How are you doing. I'm doing all right. I agree completely with what paul is saying that it's a difficult time i was talking to another one of our mutual friends pollen i miss morison's very close friend eleanor traylor the the other day and what she said very clearly and it resonated with me so completely she said i'm just devastated and it seems to be something of an overstatement. Perhaps we all understand completely that the world will be different without tony morrison in it dana. We heard a lot about in her biography this week but let's start briefly at the beginning. What was toni morrison's background general trajectory in the literary world. I'm so glad to hear that. Many people are getting the opportunity to see <hes> tony morrison the pieces that i am because i think it lays out for us quite beautifully loosely documentary. That was her story. Yes that is open in a number of major cities and i understand we'll be opening additional all cities of particularly after recent passing but that documentary lays out quite nicely for us on the background and really a her kind of intellectual development very early on she grew up in a community in lorain ohio which was surrounded by immigrants so her idea of of what it means to be a human and what it means to be a person living in the united states is informed by this reality that didn't have the traditional respect affect national boundaries. She really challenges us to think about what it means to be a part of an american narrative with so many of us have come from so many different places places. She also talks documentary a lot about the influence of her family. Having grown up hearing stories you mentioned oh go. I know i was just about to say we can talk more course about her intellectual development as an undergraduate student at howard at cornell and then again as a faculty member she was involved in so many different types of activities that it made it difficult to try to pinpoint specifically. Here's the moment where morrison emerges. I thinks she emerges straight from her mother and her father. You mentioned her hometown of lorain ohio. Working class industrial city twenty five miles west of cleveland which proved to be fairly influential on her literature and her world view. We got a voicemail from one of you who grew up in lorain ohio. My name is bill hendrickson. I'm calling from durham north carolina and went to high school with tony morrison in lorain ohio. I'm two years older than she was when she died. I'm ninety. She was eighty eight. I remember number her. I didn't know her but i remember her. As a tall slender african american woman in the high school lorraine was active in those days. This is world world war two with many industrial companies and we had people there from central america. It was kind of immigrant town and we all got together and i remember a tony morrison in what i'm referring to the radio show in the times <hes> how we all play together and she said that herself and it was a nice city and it was it's a nice time and <hes> read many of her books dana many of her stories and books take place in a mid western setting. Why was that was it just where she grew up. I think she wrote out of the culture that she knew that she was a part of and that's one of the gifts that she gave us. She never backed off from the particularity of black experiences and similarly didn't back off of the local experiences that she knew well so much happening in those spaces on and we had heard heard so very little coming out of that space out my was saying a couple of days ago that when we think about american literature very early on most people in critics are guilty of this as well associate that with the south because america didn't have this kind of formalized or really structured identity eh outside of the south end the confederacy and she rejected that outright but she did leave to study in what she called a space for black intellectuals in headed it to howard university. How did she find her time there. I think it was mixed at best down so while she was at howard she talked a lot about the challenges related needed to colorado but she was also a very active socially so it wasn't a situation as far as we can tell where she felt isolated or or will where she felt discriminated against on the basis of color in terms of internally or in the intra racial challenges. She talked a little bit about how how difficult it was to be in washington d._c. Where racism was very different from what she was accustomed to in ohio but while it howard she was a part of the modern dance club it and it's interesting to see some of the images now that we're saying all of which are wonderful where she's dancing but she was really invested in dancing thought at some point point about being a dancer she was participatory with the howard players a wonderful troupe that had done work abroad in all over the u._s. <hes> <hes> in spaces that we're both black and white and then i must of course include the kind of social things that we've heard about her being on the homecoming court at different points and being dean of pledges even at one point of alpha chapter of alpha kappa alpha sorority inc. We have many more stories stories to come and we'll celebrate. How tony morrison brought new voices into american mainstream literature do her work in the publishing industry. I'm kimberly adams of marketplace nice glad to be with you. You're listening to one a. from w. a._m._u. and n._p._r. Free support for n._p._r. And the following message come from carmax for more than twenty five years carmax has made it easy to sell your car they provide free appraisals and offers on the spot carmax will buy your car even if you don't buy there's in fact carmax has bought more than eight million vehicles to learn more and schedule your free appraisal visit carmax dot com. It has already been an eventful summer in politics between the two thousand twenty debates and the president's battle over immigration. There's a lot going on and win. There's news you need to know about the n._p._r. Politics podcast is there to tell you what happened. It's not to mention. We're hitting the road so you can meet all of the twenty twenty contenders appeal is gonna draw me completely crazy the politics podcast subscribe. This is one a. I'm kimberly. Adams of marketplace in for joshua johnson jeff and thomas emailed us my wife and i i read tar baby as peace corps volunteers tears in kenya in the early nineteen eighties and we were hooked. I've taught song of solomon to students at michigan state university. Sometimes when nearing the end of a morrison book i would delay finishing because i didn't want the story to end. Cindy emailed us the first time i read the book the bluest eye when i was a freshman in high school back in nineteen ninety. I cried because the young girl and the book was me. I two struggled with feelings of being ugly because of my darker skin tone tony spoke to the hearts of many young young black girls who did and still struggle with how beauty is depicted even during these modern times paula giddings for those that don't know what are the characteristics characteristics that mark a morrison work. Can you characterize her style and what made her work distinct. Well as everyone many people have talked talked about how lyrical her language was but with tony and i write and i'm talking from the perspective of person who writes history <hes> and tony really cracked the sky open for so many of us in terms of talking about the past and because you talked about the past <hes> from the inside out she had an interior. I'd you know when i listen to many of the comments of the people who are calling in and talking about tony one thing that ties them us all together is that she made us feel something not just into in terms of intellectual <hes> aspects of our work which is extraordinary as well but she made us feel because she really wrote from the inside out and she really told told us in so many words that you know we were. We are the universe we don't have to be. No one else has to be in our story that when we tell our story and a particular way retelling the american storytelling a global story and so you can really divide our think literature and <hes> writing about black culture you know before tony morrison <hes> and after tony morrison patrice art in accokeek maryland tweeted tweeted us morrison informed and deeply in deepened my feminism as a white woman of privilege. I needed to hear her stories. They cut to the heart. Let's hear here's some of morrison's own words about her entrance into the writers world. Here's a part of a speech. She gave for her academy achievement award from the canadian canadian gemini awards. I had no reason and no encouragement be a writer. I didn't think about it until i was over over thirty and i only thought about it then because there was something i wanted to read about and i couldn't find it. I thought everything i needed to read or wanted to read need had probably been written by somebody somewhere and at some point i discovered there was a silence <hes> absence a vacancy about somebody somebody i knew intimately which was young black female now there were books in with such character appeared but she was always a joke <hes> <hes> an instrument of somebody's pity or to add comic relief most people know tony morrison and as an author but before she was recognized writer she was an editor she moved to new york after her divorce to work at random house publishing as an editor transferring to new york city as a trade editor. She served as an editor at random house for nineteen years. This was a very important role for morris and dana williams. What did that role. Well look like and why is it so important to her story. Well it actually looked like everything from introducing new writers into the world onto selecting the cover of that writers book to making determinations about where where to market in how to market whether to have a book party or not. I'm consulting with the sales team about how to get that writers books on the shelves or in the front windows of bookshops because we tend to think about books and book sales only as we know them now but keep in mind major department stores were the major venues for selling books and independent bookstores and then there was also mail order or book of the month club so she did all of the work from getting blurbs from writers for the back of their books to selecting the the pictures to writing the copy for the flat. I mean it really was just an incredible feat in really challenging to imagine how she was able to do all all of it right herself at a certain point she certainly stopped editing in writing full time but she really midwifed a generation of writers leaders and made possible like essentially i think she encouraged writer so that she would have company is one of the things that i found the most remarkable about her anytime that we interacted with each other. She was very clear that she wasn't an anomaly that she wasn't exemplary that they were other writers who were yearly remarkable remarkable writers as well and so i think she really tried to get some company for herself and for the writers and i don't think it's an understatement to suggest is that african american literary studies as a standalone feel has a lot to do with the work that morrison did at random house where she published tony kaye bombarda angela davis quincy troupe henry thomas i could go on i mean from fiction to pros lucille clifton june jordan and then you know non traditional books as well like a cookbook or the black book or railroads about trained people and so on paula giddings you saw this firsthand as we mentioned earlier that you are the typist for morrison's first novel the bluest eye can you tell us about that experience and how you saw morrison in a sort of shepherding this generation of black authors through the process well <hes> i came to random house right after graduating from howard our university <hes> black editor by the name of charles harris recruited a number of us come into publishing which was trying to diverse diversify did that <hes> in that period so i was in the <hes> <hes> i met tony at random house when she came up to the trade eight division and i was in the secretarial pool along with a number of my friends <hes> and one day tony came to us and asked if we type something for her <hes> <hes> and we said sure <hes> and she said you know if you do it i promise you i will make you the best carrot cake you ever eaten re said shorts absolut absolutely absolutely emil a number of lived in a small <hes> shotgun apartment on the upper west side in new york and sure enough. We type the the pages <hes> she she came to their apartment <hes> she brought this wonderful carrot cake and it still is the best carrot cake yeah i have ever had and <hes> and later on we were typing parts of <hes> retyping parts of the bluest eye mhm <hes> there so it was quite extraordinary <hes> <hes> <hes> to think about someone like tony. They're in publishing at that time and i'm so glad by the way i want just want to say how important dina's work is <hes> on this so glad she's working on this aspect aspect of of tony's career but if i might say tony taught us how to because we're young pups in publishing which can be pretty intimidating at the time but tony the way she just walked in the world then she was older she was about. She was in her late thirties early forties. When i was just coming into publishing after after college and she was just fearless she was intimidated by no one <hes> <hes> she <hes> and she <hes> <hes> as she said in the film pieces that i am. She said i wasn't intimidated about any of those white males there her she says i was so much more interesting than they were and i wasn't afraid to show it you know and so we saw house she just <hes> just just in addition to the wonderful authors that she brought in as dana talked about <hes> just the way she handled herself and her your whole perspective of life was quite was was was wonderful and really important lesson for us and it's worth noting of the publishing industry to this day is still about eighty five percent white and it was even less diverse when tony morrison was coming up through the ranks. Let's hear another message from you. From in our inbox highlighting one of the other writers that tony morrison supported alan from sunset beach tony morrison was the person who really brought the work of henry moss to light after his death he was <hes> a black writer who was killed by transit new york city police officer decades ago but he wrote off in about the connotation tation of of blacks and whites and america and so does work has been discussed but he's also been club. I think the blackest writer <hes> by some critics <hes> african american writing but she was really largely responsible for bringing his work to light after he died dana. Can you talk a bit more about tony morrison as a mentor for black writers and other people even academics yeah i think it's important to think about her in that regard because there are correspondences between her in tony kaye bombarded for instance bombards <unk> incredible writer she's deceased now but she was also very close friends with ms morrison and the correspondence between the the two of them. It's i mean it's just laugh out loud funny in some instances a morrison say for instance that she didn't have to line in its four bombard because she would think faster than she could write. She'd send her away to do something and she come back really quickly and then more bombard conversely would say you know i really appreciate the eight out of the work that you're doing for me but i probably should get an agent because morrison was literally doing the agent work and the editor work and the friend in work and in some instances of making sure that she had a typist may letting her stay at her place if she needed to be in new york to get something something done very quickly another writer that she worked with very closely leon forrest <unk> similarly had a tremendous amount of respect for her and was very very clear that he would not have been published had it not been for tony morrison who interestingly enough simply picked up the phone to say hello when he called saying kay someone suggested that they couldn't understand my book but that you would and that was the kind of person that she was on to receive those it was more challenging texts as we have heard her say about jokingly about beloved. That's called reading when you have to read something over and over again. It's really reading and i think it's critical to understand the significance of that kind of relationship to have someone who could read your work closely and to understand stand it and to make sure that it was championed in those rooms where editors were making decisions about whether to give a book contract. Contract are not very often. She spoke four gail jones who was something of a recluse who refused to promote her own books but morrison was so enamored by gail jones's full body of work that in that particular instance she said you know i need you to go out and do the promotions but if you won't i can still sell this book anyway so she incredibly generous to as an editor. Cecilia emailed us. Tony morrison wasn't enlightened figure and i believe one of if not the most profound writers we have had the privilege is to have benefited from. I'm a white woman with blue eyes. The bluest eye was the first book of hers. I've read it was the first time i ever felt such resonance from an author and i felt that she was was telling my inner story. Even though it was a different manifested physicality with feeling of being unlovable due to some perceived ugliness shane etc dictated by unlimited views of our ignorant species she was able to meet us deep down where our sorrows dwell and with great love help us rise above it and find meaning and all this suffering. We're hearing your tributes about tony morrison more in a moment stay close. Don't stamp pad and free black support for this n._p._r. Podcast and the following message come from the united states postal service every day. Innovative companies are reinventing the way business happens but none of that is possible without the right people people get packages to over one hundred fifty million delivery points affordably and on in time with the latest technology and expertise who can help you deliver the future of commerce. The united states postal service see why they deliver more ecommerce ars packages to homes than anyone in the country at u._s._p._s. dot com slash future. Hey it's many hossen host n._p._r.'s latino u._s._a. Every week we bring you a mix of reporting diverse voices and coverage of current and emerging issues that impact our lives in u._s._a. Is one of a kind featuring stories from the heart stories that make you think and maybe even inspire you to action. Listen and subscribe now. Tony morrison did eventually split her time between editing and and being a mother of two and then also to write her own work but there was a time when her work did not receive awards forty eight black writers including the likes of maya i angelo amira bakar amir bucker and alice walker penned a letter to the times book review then published chastising the literary world for not recognizing recognizing morrison either for the national book award or for the pulitzer prize beloved did then win the pulitzer prize that april in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight critics talked a a lot about the absence of white life in her work which she pointed out as a deeply racist sentiment. There's a moment circulating on twitter right now from an interview tony gave back in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight with journalist. Jada went went pushed her on why she didn't give more attention to white experiences in her novels. Let's let's listen and you will maintain this safe place for yourself for your art. You don't think you will ever change and write books that incorporate right what what lives into them substantially. I have time venus substantial. You can't understand how powerfully raise this question christians any as you could never ask a wide author. When are you going to write about black where he did or not or she did not even the inquiry comes from a position of being in the center and being unused to being in the same gene used to being in and saying you know. Is it ever possible that you will enter the mainstream. It's inconceivable inconceivable that we're already. Am is the mainstay. Here's another quote from morrison. I spent my entire writing life life trying to make sure that the white gays wasn't the dominant one in any of in any of my books paula. Can you talk more about the white gays and morrison's work to a radical it in her novels. You know many of those quotes that you're that we're hearing was at a time time when we really think about tony not only not writing about white people per se or or putting them at the center enter over story but at this period of time at the center of a story weren't just black people but black women and black hair doesn't protagonists tagging <unk> black protagonists who weren't <hes> particularly special in that certain kind of way in terms of respectability etc who who were <hes> ordinary people <hes> dealing with extraordinary circumstances in so many ways toni morrison's the first one in sulu not really talk about black women's friendships as a center of her <hes> work <hes> and so <hes> so yes yes <hes> that was part of what sometimes unsaid in this period of time <hes> what people were talking about not only. Are you just talking about black people. You're talking about black women as the center of the world and how can you do that. You know <hes> when i was before i retired when i was teaching. I started off every teaching on black women's history. I start off every class with toni morrison's quote and she said this in different ways throughout the years but when people asked her would you <hes> do you mind being called a black woman writer rather other than an american writer and she said no she said because as a black women writer my world is larger not smaller so this it was really an important and if you understand like women's history if you understand the literature the world is small the larger not smaller <hes> as a a part of it so instead of being an addendum to another to someone else or again as i mentioned before of trying to coax you know ever since the slave narrative. We've been trying to coax white people into being more moral being more just seeing us as human. She said we don't have to do that. We we can talk about that. Within from within our culture her works are required reading in high schools across the country her catalog a unique mix of sort sort of commercial and critical successes and her mark on the academic world is towering. You've both taught their work in her working classes dana dana what were these experiences like teaching the the work of tony morrison it was fun and challenging at the same time part of what that challenge with teaching ching was to show students how writing can be so beautiful than poetic and lyrical but so deeply sought full where every word mattered and that's the kind of language work that morrison did and it was only possible because she was this great mind but i think we can take take take that kind of thinking and and the work that is required for the reading the thinking the very deliberate word choice we take that for granted and paulo what was it like both with knowing her personally and teaching her work to students <hes> sheep. We had one course on <hes> think remembering <hes> in africana studies called him. It's a methods course which is a theory of study and we <hes> took took the novel beloved and we examined examined it from every perspective from a historical perspective from a literary suspected just very briefly for people who aren't deeply familiar with her work a basic summary of of beloved. Oh well <hes> beloved beloved of course is what many people think of her as her masterwork <hes> which tells the story of margaret garner <hes> ah enslaved woman who escapes slavery <hes> is pursued and when it appears like she's going to be caught instead of going back into slavery slavery and letting her with her children who was with her she kills one of her children <hes> to keep it from going back back into slavery <hes> and this is probably an example again of of how marcin just has it's no limits in to expressing <hes> ideas around freedom <hes> for in the motherhood and others so <hes> so it's an it's an extraordinary story written of course in a quite an extraordinary way <hes> and so ocean when we you could examine her work from every perspective and it's rich <hes> in every perspective <hes> <hes> and of course just knowing her <hes>. I've been thinking lately of how much she's just shaped by. You know my life as also as a teacher church. She asked me to come teach at princeton which i did <hes> for a year as well <hes> as a journalist enlist i wrote about her as a journalist and as a buy in particular has a biographer <hes> so the combination of understanding banding her work teaching her work watching the the eyes of students light up <hes> when you're teaching when they're they are reading this extraordinary extraordinarily writing of hers <hes> was <hes> was was just an indelible <hes> experience and this also had a her work also had a big impact on sort of how we think of american history because her novels and essays and stories cover almost four hundred years of american history it really when you think about her work you know soula actually the novel sulu which is the second novel actually years extend from nine hundred nineteen thousand nine hundred sixty five and she wrote about the colonial period she wrote about slavery reconstruction the great migration harlem renaissance i mean it's extraordinary and she puts <hes> humanity humanity our humanity in these periods and in these stories that were often historical silences and so <hes> many in so many ways <hes> so it so the imagination of her of her taking into the context most of what was happening in america and sometimes the world was one of the most extraordinary things about <hes> about <hes> about her in writing <hes> and it <hes> <hes> <hes> helped me so much as a writer of history to know we'll have read tony morrison and what people were not just doing what other not not just knowing where the people are saying about people the how people are feeling and this is this is what she gave to us. <hes> i just say one key when when when <hes> quick thing when i was when i told older i'm gonna write about to be wells who started the first campaign against lynching and <hes> she said <hes> an i'd been researching for some time time and she said well paul you know ida. Wells is very important well. Of course i knew ida. Wells was important. I'd been researching most of my adult life but when tony morrison says someone is important. I laughed with her. I said you'd probably extended my research about five more years because when you say she's important that is something you really have to think about in very very profound <hes> in deep ways. I'd like to thank my guest. Dana williams chair of the english department at howard university. Thank you thank you so much for having an paula giddings professor america at of african studies at smith college. Thank you thank you so much. Today's show was produced and edited by bianca martin to learn more about her and the rest of the team visit the one eight. Okay dot org slash staff. This program comes to you from w. a._m._u. Part of american university in washington distributed by n._p._r. I'm kimberly adams. Thank thank you so much for listening. This is one a. uh.

toni morrison tony writer america dana williams tony morrison society paula giddings kimberly adams morrison howard university new york paula lorain joshua joshua johnson ohio smith college pulitzer prize washington colorado united states
Remembering Toni Morrison

Studio 360 with Kurt Andersen

17:43 min | 1 year ago

Remembering Toni Morrison

"I'm anderson and this is the studio three sixty podcast. This is evan chung from studio three sixty toni morrison the author of books including beloved and song of solomon died on monday august fifth at the age of eighty eight. Toni morrison's novels won her the pulitzer prize and the nobel prize and in two thousand twelve barack obama awarded her a presidential medal of freedom her work inspired countless readers and writers like hilton. All's the new yorker critic when hilton guests toasted studio three sixty in two thousand fourteen tony morrison was his first choice of interviewee. They spoke at morrison's home and she started by telling him about about her writer lee habits. I recently been sleeping the lead like seventy. That's the way okay for you because you're up at four before the light and wannabes air with it so that's depending on the season and then i can uh-huh really smart in the morning. You caught me at the edge john downs but you work. You still work in the morning depending. Is it a fixed schedule or is it. I don't know i don't do it every day because it's not there every day. When i get the first draft i can work every day because it's it's something to work law. That's right exactly so when i'm still you know moving in. I started something about to go. I have no idea where it came from but it's infectious. Just this kid says i put the cup on the window sill to catch the blood. I can't talk but i hear everything everything he sort of. I i am excited. Not only whatever that plot is which i think i know about now but i am so excited about writing from the foreign view of a mute <music> who can here. I am the voice when i first discovered toni morrison's song of solomon i was seventeen and it knocked me for a loop. The protagonist reminded me and my father a black man of some privilege. Recently i reread song of solomon and i was struck by the friendship between the two male characters called milkman and guitar that deep affection between the two men and is something i feel have been missing literature before tony voted down and i wanted to know where that came from the impetus really was that my father died right and i had decided to write a story sort of in the area of the pre civil rights movement and i thought i don't know a thing about these men i wish i knew what my father knew and when i said that thought that there was this feeling of serenity and confidence and competence as though i knew he would let me now so of course we had no conversation between the living in the dead but that's serenity that i felt that i could enter tune into that. World with confidence happened after i asked that question. Can you tell us a little bit of boat you for the yeah he he was born in georgia carter's ville georgia and although i never knew while he was alive why he laughed. I knew he was about fourteen years old when he left but he had seen two black. Men businessmen lynched lynched on his street hanging from trees so he left he had a half brother in california and then he became where many people were coming lorraine ohio which was a steel town and there was a lot of work. They're married. My mother worked worked at some times three jobs. You know washing cars doing this and that until in fact the war came a lot of black men and older men got jobs in these factories that probably they would not have before and i remember the day he got the job and told my mother with the salary was i think it was fifty dollars. If she kicks off her shoes we would have and that feeling doing good work. They came home one sunday and said to me he was at that time a welder at the shipyards and he said today i i made the perfect seen on the ship. He said it was so perfect that i signed my initials at the bottom and i said daddy nobody's going to see it and he said but i noticed there and it made such an impression on me about his perfection in work his sense of not display partic- doing first rate work good enough for him not for the ship or other people but his own ideals sales of what good work was and that was the satisfaction of his life and most of the men. I knew another amazing story that i read take awhile back about when you were a teenager you were cleaning house for this lady and you said you told your father that the work was was hard and the lady was mean and your father said go to get your money and come on home. You don't live there. You live here boom. Separation ratios have never had an employee that one of the things that makes me love both of those stories stories that he's telling you that there are limits limited heights that you can reach and and valuable i am or he was as a human being beautiful work mind. It's beautiful work. It's a perfect see somebody. Somebody doesn't like you at work. It's not about you. You know you were doing work over there. Your value is that you live here. It's it's not what somebody's calling. You names saying you. The lady was right. You know i do not know what i was doing. I had never seen a vacuum cleaner. The stove that complicated you know she said cleaned the stove taking this though but i forgot the of it's i can't blame them if she knows that. My feelings were hurt state now let out do you work once you were on the other side of being a daughter with your father and so on and you then were a mother to your boys the idea of safety of keeping your boys save. How did bach masculinity look to you then when you then responsible for these boys in the way your father have been responsible for you did did you feel the same kind of protectiveness that your father fell towards you and more because you were frightened frightened of what could happen to them. <hes> i remember being in a house that we were living in then and looking out the window at night hoping to see my son come down the road because he was late. I felt i wasn't strong spiritually intellectually but i thought if something happened you know physically physically what could <hes> do every summer every summer they went home to my parents and my father my mother and their cousins so they spent a lotta time in that media <hes> you know with all kinds of males which probably helped him but i always felt a sense of regret that i couldn't be two people still feeling still really big one of the things that i loved when i looked at the photograph of the woman who wrote on the solomon when i brought that book thing with sixteen dollars maybe something twelve ninety five or something anthem long ago and i remember i had twenty dollars for the week and i said that's the week and i looked at the photo auto and i said but i know her you were every woman i knew in my life who single mother had had a job had this other life one of the things that you said during that period in an interview about song solomon when was that you didn't want you never imagine growing up being a writer. You wanted to grow up to be a grownup an adult. They always knew you were smart in your family finally was there any indication that all that you would be a creator of books yourself no they thought and i thought that i would teach school. I was thirty nine years old when i published the blue sky and it takes me five years to put it together because i will really was very eager to read it. I wanted to read a book book about a vote the most vulnerable person in society in female child. They're always jokes folks. They never hold the stage and i also wanted to write a book about a time when it hurt racism mm-hmm and what what would the consequences of it <hes> to take her seriously but i wanted to read that book and it wasn't around so i started writing it in bits and pieces rewriting and then i joined a risers club and so on but it was the impulse to know to to know to imagine to have a book like that somewhere uh-huh and then of course i found that when i finished that book a very deep into sadness and and and i realized that i don't really like get around here if i don't have something to write those summit to imagine yeah to be in this other my other free imaginative place in the years after the bluest eye tony was recognized as one of the great marvelous of our time i think of some of the canonical black writers before her such as james ball ralph ellison which way i see a big difference in the way tony imagines male characters men love often i loved in return and that's not something i see in the works of those male writers missile sort of sexist but i think in the male writers feel isolated feel separate chiel different. I think women writers. I don't i feel very strongly connected to friends or community. I never felt cut off from even when i was far away i felt other people and a life into community munity or on the street or in house. Even though we live in many places being evicted rather constantly you get an i._t. Not really needs and i don't know if that's exactly true but i always felt like with invisible man. I'd love that book invisible man but the title says it all it says invisible to home not to me. Even when i noticed the rape scenes for example ralph ellison it's terrible but there is somehow in the languages sense of power accomplishment so when i do is a great scene in the bluest staff i use very feminine language very suppled on proud language is what he's doing is not even about her. It's not his own failures of his own. You know as it's a kid so you know it's i referred to it. Sometimes this sort of invisible inquiry not over for you know when i was trying to make the reader happy comfortable cheerful win in home i just removed all color yes from every place he wasn't on his way so that it was so welcoming and heat surprises him where these trees always this green and then you know trying to find out what color the sun would be at the very end here lies a man so i decided tomato tomato later where it would be the cholera and with the blood and fruit and nourishment when you you receive the national medal of freedom from president of 'em. How did you feel receiving from him and being in that space felt glorious. There was a certain about of joy and glory receiving it from him and he 'cause. I was at a wheelchair sort of percents walking very well. I held his hand out. I took an pulled me out and there was this feeling i i don't know how this can be interpreted but the relationship not relationship the ara laura was as though i was standing next to an older brother. He's you know half my age. If you could understand what or do older brother yes. He looked out for you. Yeah he know could hurt us us <hes> working on a new book yeah. I turned it a book. That's it's great news yeah. No it's <hes> i love it but it's very very different from before <hes> would you talk about your new book at all. No shadow kyra what the audience does it though before you guys tuned in tony and i were laughing about <hes> <hes>. She said that she was very happy to be eighty years old because there were three things that she could say now and not worry about it. One was no the other one was shut up and the other was get out. Tony welcome knew that was the late tony morrison with the new yorker worker critic health and they spoke in two thousand fourteen. Our story was produced by julia lowery henderson <music> and thanks for listening and you can subscribe to studio three sixteen wherever you get podcasts.

Toni morrison tony solomon writer ralph ellison barack obama anderson evan chung pulitzer prize nobel prize lee ville georgia julia lowery henderson georgia california lorraine ohio rape president
Growing Up With Toni Morrison

The Cut on Tuesdays

32:56 min | 1 year ago

Growing Up With Toni Morrison

"This episode of the cut on tuesdays brought to you by for shadow frozen pizza. That's made better to taste better for pizza has naturally rising crust. One hundred percent real cheese jeez scratch made sauce and high quality toppings for shadow premium ingredients for a better tasting pizza from the cut and gimblett media. This is the cut on tuesdays. I'm your host molly fisher aw i started to write when i was in a lonely pays and i was riding riding really for me and not publication and not for anybody i was louis talking was the way of talking then so i talked to myself a hello. This is tony morrison talking to p._b._s. Back in nineteen seventy seven which means it's tony morrison before she was fully established as tony morrison just published her first book seven years before and listening to her talk. You can hear someone who still getting started. I certainly hope that i am a successful writer later but i know that if there were no publishing companies left in the world i would still do with it's a little crazy to listen to this. Now you hear the name toni morrison and you think of the literary legend a regal nobel laureate whose books are fixture on family bookshelves and lists of great american novels. That's the version of tony morrison that a lot of people my age and younger grew up with and ngop create a world where more people could imagine themselves doing what she'd done to this week. In the wake of her death. We wanted to hear from women who grew up in that world about how they first. I made their way to morrison's work and what it's meant to them over the years. She was a deity already before i was born like it was understood with human people like oh. This woman is everything. We'll start with britney loose. She's co host of the not my mom. She stayed at home with us in so oprah was always on four p._m. At least in on the east coast host it's four p._m. After school and oprah was not shy about choosing tony morrison for her but kopecks bernice mom watched oprah and brittany's mom bought those books so so they were always around the house and they felt familiar long before brittany had actually read them even just the picture of morrison on the jacket grandma. She looks like she looks like a like a cool auntie grandma when she also such a i mean tony is like such tony. Rhonda rosalyn like these are all good like auntie auntie sister cousin grandma friend name like if you're find his name rosalyn tony rhonda. This is somebody who you're going to be on the phone with like three three o'clock in the morning laughing. They always have the like. She just had a name. That was just so like tony morrison. It's like it's a complete sentence. I read the bluest eye. How old are you. I was probably fifteen or sixteen ha because it was around the house in have an oprah's book club pick at any of those that were in the house. I read them. The bluest eye was morrison's first novel. It came out in nineteen seventy but she'd started at years before in a writing group at howard university for a lot of the women we talked to the bluest eye was their first taste of tony morrison. It's a book that catch your eye. If you're ten or thirteen or sixteen years old it tells the story of an eleven year old girl going up in the nineteen forties. She thinks she's ugly and what she wants more than anything to have blue eyes like a white girl i i was growing up this mostly white suburb. I felt like i was sort of out of step with most of the other people around me but i didn't have the language for it and so when i first read the bluest i i was reading it sort of for the plot and that was like this is sad. I had understanding in the situationally in the book that she he thought that whiteness could save her from her life but like i didn't have a sophisticated understanding of of how that same sort of system of oppression was making me feel a certain way probably because maybe it was like two combination too obvious in too painful for me to be able to connect that back to my own experience in a way that like really would have made me feel like totally like oh man. I'm fucked act when she first read the bluest eye. Britney wasn't focused on what morrison could tell her about her life right now. She was more interested in what morrison had to say about her possible. Future about all the the thing she didn't know yet when it came to being an adult the mother and the father began ike having a sexual relationship and there was some way that she described it's something like about feeling all of the colors and things like that which is basically euphemistic for hanging orgasm or at least experiencing some sort of like carnal pleasure. Let's say and like it was just the most delicate but most tawdry like i was like. This is a door habit hit it yet yeah. I haven't had that experience somebody else yeah so. I'm like oh my god this is this is something interesting and there's also wasn't just just about the feeling or event it was about how that relationship drew her to this bound her to this man yeah and it it felt like real grown woman stuff and shit. It gave me a window into this idea that something else transpired hired when you had sex with somebody wasn't just like this. <hes> this physical experience there there was much. There's so much else attached to it. It was like you and another person really <hes> working together or or just yeah. It was just sort of like the piqued my interest. It made me like oh. There's more here so that was what caught hockberg needs attention the first time around but a few years later she read the bluest eye again and this time it hit her in a new way. It was the first semester of freshman year at howard university which is where i went and also wear tony went. I was in a all girls dorm and so the first semester were all in freshman composition like like our english class and they have read the bluest eye and reading the bluest eye among all of those black roles howard howard where she went and where she taught in their teaching this book <hes>. I didn't think about how deep that was but that was a pretty deep experience at night. They'd sit around the dorm talking about toni morrison. I had never really been around that large group of black women at once hearing black women from a variety of shades brown around skin dark skin light skin like you know different types of hair in all different types of facial features and everybody's sort of opening up about how they hit experience color ism or how they hadn't realizing that they hadn't and realizing what sort of like what was insidious about that yeah and not fair about that so it was like just like that book was an entry way to so many <hes> conversations that i had that i cherished <hes> with so many women who are so close to me now. I think that i felt pity when i read the book the first time i think that the second time only three years later i think i felt <hes> understanding. I think that it was always the magic of toni morrison's books. How do you think you would be different now. Were it not for your experiences. Reading tony morrison that thing about tony morrison is i think for every black woman especially every black american woman she made you feel like you deserve to take up space like there was a like. I don't know it's like there's this quote that she has. She is a friend of my mind. She gathered me man the pieces i am she gather them and get them back to me and all the right order. It's good you know when you got a woman who is a friend of your mind like like that is that is how i think she's like the best friend smart friend like the most like the friend that reading her books felt like just having somebody just make sense of you. Tony morrison wrote books folks. That got passed from hand to hand. Maybe from your mom or your cousin or slightly older cooler friend so first encountered her through. My older sister served seven years older than me so we hey lock is a news writer at culture. Last week actually wrote the blog post that broke the news of toni morrison's death. Do you remember the first taking morrison her sister shelf. So when i was eleven i remember just hanging out in her bedroom while she was doing something thing. Completely different not really paying attention to me at all that was just sitting around and to try to get her to talk to me. I was like oh which book from your book shelves. Should i read. I'm pretty sure she was very blase. It was very much like <hes>. Do we read the bluest eye so i just decided i'll read the book and then i'll have something to talk to my sister. Go and she'll be it'd be great although he was trying to impress her sister. The book itself snuck up on her reading. How morrison's protagonist felt about shirley temple bowl. She recognized something. She'd felt herself like the books and the t._v. Shows that are filled with white heroes. I really desperately wanted to be but but couldn't couldn't fully see myself in who'd you remember wanting to be or who who was like that to you when you were eleven when it comes to mind immediately worry gilmore like i love gilmore girls. It's a good show but i remember wanting to like go to boarding school role in connecticut and have her hair with like being braid down her down her back. Sometimes i ever being like a liquor hair so beautiful and those alexis sexist dell is was there some big blue eyes yeah so for me reading. It was like two main lessons one racism bad and i sort of already become. I'm very familiar with that so i was like okay that but then also the idea at that these characters in books and t._v. shows i wanted thank you so bad weren't for the solution to finding who i was as a person a friend and i were talking about this. Recently you know like the question was what is a book that you know you are way too young to read and for me. It was the bluest eye. I'm not too so as co host of call all your girlfriend. She discovered morrison's the bluest eye to and even though it's a book about a kid it's dark not just because it's dealing with racism internalized in otherwise it also tells the story of a child who's raped and who becomes pregnant with her father's baby. I ran the bluest. I i wanna say i was nine or ten. I was very very precocious. Reader reader so i just picked up everything around the house and i remember very much realizing as i was reading it that this was not something my parents could no. I was reading and i just i remember just feeling so both this feeling of like wow these are really adult themes but also these are things. These are things that are happening to me. I'm i'm a survivor of childhood sexual assault and reading. This book was really <hes>. It was really i opening. I remember just feeling really affected by <hes> by the story and saying like okay. This is not a thing. I can talk to my mom and dad about because i like grab moslem. There was like a lot of shame it was somebody who was like very close to our family as he was abusing me but this book was a place that i could dive into to really just like to process. I just kept thinking thinking like oh. This is the thing that happens to people and it's obviously very bad but also it will not destroy you like i think that for me. That was the overarching feeling doing. It made me feel less alone. Every time i pick up that book. It's something that it it hits me like a ton of bricks. Every time seeing your life mirrored that away in a book it's a powerful experience and as i got older and got to know the rest of morrison's work. She realized it was bigger than anyone story. It was a whole way of thinking about what stories could be and who they were for just how much pleasure and pride and urgency she took in the fact that she wrote about black people for black people. I'm thinking about the interview that i like. I watch it all the time on youtube and now i can't think about who the interviewer is but actually who cares the interviewers. The clip immune is talking talking about is from an interview. Tony morrison did in nineteen ninety eight with australian journalist. John event vent who is white looks very serious as she turns to tony morrison and incest this. You don't think you'll ever change and write books. That incorporate wide wide lives into them substantially. I have done <hes> <hes> venus substantial. You can't understand how powerfully raise the question is any as you could never ask a white author. When are you gonna write about black whether he did or not or she did not even the inquiry comes from a position of being in the center and being used to being in the same gene used to being present and saying. Is it ever possible that you will enter demands chain is inconceivable that we're i already am is to mainstream exchange flips the question on its head and she's always like you never like all of the questions i get like center white. People actually like no like that's like that's racist and i i sent her myself and i sent her black people in my work and there's nothing wrong with that and i was like this is true. It's like i think about the you know the cannon that i read in college on high school cool and then tony morrison pointed. She's like you know like nobody's asking tolstoy like writing for are you writing for young russians is this is only for russian but i just i it sounds so i you know like i'm obviously making light of it and being a little flippant but i think that for so many of us that was that was game changing when she she never shrank. She wasn't provocative. She wasn't you know she was just telling the truth about who she was and and they really appreciate about. It always seems particularly unfair that when someone dies they're not around to help you through their death the one in person you don't get to hear talk about tony morrison dying. His tony morrison but death is something she came back to again and again in her writing after the break a ghost story. This episode of the cut on tuesdays is brought to you by tomorrow mellon tamara mellon. John is a new footwear brand for the next generation. They combine new school luxury with old school craftsmanship guaranteeing everything they make with shoe care for two years so i feel feel like you want to buy shoes. You can commit to like get them. Result get the he'll refinished polish them oil them all that i have no interest in anything disposable. I want something that's going to last last forever. That's a good shoe philosophy yeah to take your shoe philosophy to the next level and to get one hundred dollars off your first purchase visit. Tamara mellon dot com offer offer code the cut again. That's t. a. m. a. r. a. m. e. l. l. o. n. Dot com offer code the cut for one hundred dollars off your first purchase. This episode of the cut on tuesdays is brought to you by for shehata frozen pizza. That's made better to taste better. Can we regular senior producer of the cut on tuesdays. Where does frozen pizza fitted to your life. You know either depend a long day or like. You're treating yourself. I feel like you having having little personal time and the pizza should be reflective of that the thing about the frozen pizzas that it's just there waiting for you in the freezer. You could activate that treat at any time. You don't have to go out into the world old. Get it. No it's right there for shabas pizza has naturally rising crust. One hundred percent real cheese scratch made sauce and high quality toppings. They even even have a gluten free crust option and the best part. It's always there for you when you need it for shadow premium ingredients for a better tasting pizza welcome back today. We're hearing stories about discovering toni oni morrison and for some of the women we talked to after finding morrison for themselves. They wanted to spread the word. Laureate remembers doing just that. She's the founder of well red black girl and she is also a big sister. I had a habit of reading my little brother a lot and i would read in books that i didn't understand and i i him beloved. Oh my gosh i was young. I was probably like twelve or thirteen years old brother's five years younger so he was completely lee terrified but i remember like reading the scenes at him stop. This beloved is a ghost story. It's scary as hell beloved tells the story of her mother who escapes from slavery and chooses uses to kill her daughter rather than let the baby taken by slave catchers years later the daughter haunts. Her family is a literal ghost. Just as the legacy of slavery continues to haunt america erica. It's a lot for a seven year old or a twelve year olds to take in like going into like what is slavery with your little brother is just kinda like <hes> well well. I don't really know either but <hes> let's just keep going and does she makes me wanna move through it even like the hard part she makes you read read through the struggle and understand what she means because she is so she's done worse than so even as a young person. I knew that i wanted to like take this on wants wants to have this experience in doing that. With my brother was really was really fine for him. Maybe not so much but for me reading out loud to him and being like cabbie him him captivated by morrison to you like bonded is it was our things. Louis did together at the same time. Did you like scaring your little brother. I did of course online. We're five years apart so i do come up very very big sister and so i did love the fact that he believed everything i said and sometimes sometimes when i was quoting things like he thought he didn't know that was more than he thought i was making worried tony you know and it was just like my moments of feeling like i'm in charge and i. I have a command of language. Even though that's not the the words i would have used at that point but it was just it felt very adult and very refined yeah like i understand this. How do you think your life would be different now. If you're not read tony morrison oh fuck i mean oh i mean so much of my identity is built around morrison's fortitude and her ability to make you knock question yourself before i read morrison for sure i like lives in self-doubt. I didn't know if i had permission or is allowed to be was outspoken and as bold as i wanted to be even within the creation of wall red black girl saying well red black girl in itself is is a statement and i don't know if i could came to that conclusion without morrison to feel just really uninhibited and free to be myself when you're reading as a kid easy to grab onto whatever seems most sensational in an adult book. Maybe it's sex our coast. You come back to it later though and things shift go stories and jessica story oy. It's a different way of thinking about death caitlyn. Greenidge is a writer a few years ago. She was teaching a literature class and she decided to make it about ghost stories and and of course everything that she writes goes to mitt. There's always a haunting. There's always a person and that of many things that she writes about one of the things that she's really interested. Adam is is this sort of moving back and forth between these worlds between the living and <hes> she never calls it the dad she always calls it the not living and so i started to think about her work in those terms as well. When tony morrison writes about death she doesn't treat it as something final and caitlyn says that's drawing on a large tradition and that sort of other way of thinking about <hes> what death means is very familiar billiards. Anyone who <hes> is familiar with death in african american cultures or just the african diaspora in general well <hes> it's an understanding deaths that's based on this idea that death is not a finality and the dead are with us and and our our past is with us in a in a very real way and hunting is not something that is frightening or a curse or the bad thing it's just another fact of existence and you're sort of existing on these multiple planes and multiple layers and and you move through those things and they can affect your daily life your material life or spiritual life depending on whether or not you are willing to reckon with those oakland raiders reckon with go solve the time anyone who writes a book has to confront all the books that have come before and decide how to claim a place alongside them years ago caitlin. I was a kid who pulled the bluest eyes off her parents bookshelf. Now caitlyn's a novelist herself she and all the other writers we spoke to have just begun to reckon with morrison's ghost we die that may be leaning of life but we do ryan. That may be the master of our live. That's from the speech. Tony morrison gave when she won the nobel prize and as the people of eulogized her in the last week those lines they keep coming back to but the part that comes next is worth remembering to morrison used her speech to tell a story sorry she describes a wise old woman who's blind and a group of young people who approach with what sounds like a trick question they tell the woman that they're holding a bird the nascar oscar whether it's living or dead the woman waits a while before giving them an answer. She says the birds in your hands one. The time visitors asked an old woman a question. Who are the these children. What did they make of that. What did they hear. In those final words words. The bird is in your hands a sentence the gestures toward possibility a one that it drops perhaps with their children herve wise. It's not my problem. I'm old female by what with them. I have now is knowing. I cannot help you. The future of language is your all. The women we talked to said how their encounters with morrison had opened the the door to their own work how she told them in one way or another. The future of language is yours. I went to an event that she was at and i just sat close to the front row in grand at her like an idiot but i didn't try to speak to her because i was shy. This is angela floor ni- she's a novelist. Angela saw tony morrison onstage just a few years ago and at that point morrison certainly could have rested on her laurels. She had all the laurels in the world to rest on but what she you did on that stage was she put out a legal pad and it was something she had written like very very recently and she read it. She was still working working. You know <hes> she was older and she was in the wheelchair and probably had various ailments but she was still working and that was something something that was kind of like a kick in the pants for me. I can find any reason for it to not be the right time. You know to work angela. I read morrison's work when she was a teenager and it sparked something in her then years later. It was still sparking something. Morrison is a writer to discover henry discover and even now that our work is everywhere reading it for the first time can still feel like finding something. That's just for you back. When the writer ashley see ford was in junior high. She was always getting in trouble. It wasn't that she didn't care about school. It was that no one school seemed like they cared about her. She was always frustrated with arbitrary rules and lessons. I was sitting in classrooms reading in books along with my teacher and being ferociously board the because the book didn't have anything to do with the lives. Any of us were living because she was always questioning the teachers she was always getting sent to detention but when she was there all she wanted to read and one of the a few black instructors in my middle school was also the detention coordinator so he you know seeing being this was like you really don't belong here. You know i'm gonna send you to the library and the library actually was super mean and not like any of us excuse. I still don't know why should came a school librarian because she clearly eighty it but i was in there. You know and i'm going through the bugs. She's like i am me me and i just let me just find a buck and set out so i went. I saw this book and on the cover was a little black girl and the way her hair was parted and the darkness of her skin especially because at that time every book looked like a still from like the scene leanne from dawson's creek or something it was always just it was always like book covers for teenagers or younger adults were always just like white kids dressed like they listen to a lot of kirk obey and so i pick up the bluest eye and like it just looked familiar with like looking at a picture of my grandma when she was a kid you know or or even like my mom when she was a kid and and i sat down and i started reading. It and i didn't look up for the rest of the hour like i just did look. I didn't look up until detention. Coordinator came to the library was like hey. It's time to go and i was like. Can i check out this book and the librarian liam goes no and he was like wait what she can't check out a book from the library issues like let's not her library time and and so like you say okay. Let's all calm down. I'm pretty sure she didn't check out the ball and she let me check out the book. Finally i took the book home home and i finished it that day which was not uncommon for me. I've always been a fast reader love to read what was uncommon. Common was that after i finished it. I went back to the front and started it again. Here's the thing about that book. At twelve i read it and couldn't really understand it. I couldn't really understand the emotions and the debt and the depravity and and all of those things that were built in to this gorgeous novel. I couldn't see them all clearly but there was something about that book that told me like this is what writing can be and it just i opened up this world for me about not just finding good stories but also the interesting ways is that stories could be told and the powerful way that stories could be told and before. I read the bluest eye to be perfectly honest. I don't think i knew that anybody cared. A little black girl fought or how she felt. I thought i had been born into a world where nobody would care who i was what i thought what i could give what i contribute how much i love my huge capacity for love in some way school. Maybe feel like that in some ways my home life in a lot of ways. The world and media made me feel like that and i read this is book and realized that had been written by a black woman and that it was about a black girl and black world and a black past and a black family you know and black pain the thing about toni morrison's life for a lot of writers like me especially black women writers as that she doesn't just give us permission to write our world in our lives and our language but she also gives us permission to to write whatever the hell we why. I have a place that his mind. That's my work on. I right that's that's my this is toni morrison on oprah and twenty eleven. It is free on nobody tells me what to do. Uh and i would listen if they did. It's all it's my world. I have invented. These are my people my language and now i have come to believe that everybody needs want those places. If you have never read tony morrison listen don't feel ashamed about it. He's not you so again. Just pick up a book and start anywhere so start anywhere because i because i am never going to get to experience her for the first time again and i'm really jealous of the people well. That's it for this show. We're off next week so we'll see you next next tuesday. Also we are working on an episode about anxiety and we want to know the weird ways that you self soothe food. Are you watching tick tock when you can't sleep. Are you a stress baker. You reorganize your underwear drawer. When you feel like your life is falling apart and why is that the thing that works for you. Give us a call and let us know nine two zero three six eight three three four one again nine hundred zero three six eight three three four one. The cut on tuesdays is produced by sarah mcbean olivia. Our senior producer is kimmy regular for edited edited by lin levy and stella bug be mixing by among and peter leonard our music is by haley shaw emma monger and peter leonard our theme song is play it right by sylvan esso special. Thanks to john hopkins taylor alison davis ruth spencer side page on thomas caccia bochco and eric speakers thousand could on tuesdays production and if gimblett media and the cut the journal is a new podcast from gimblett media and the wall street journal about money and power on this show. We show you how a company's bottom line affects the decisions you make every day. Google's entire future is predicated indicated on it continuing to be the one place you go for the answer to all information. We follow the money and see where it takes us. This is one of the biggest financial heist that has ever happened period. The journal is out now on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts sponsored by marrow narrow and lincoln thanks to our sponsor for shadow pretenders pizza has naturally rising crust one hundred percent real cheese scratch made sauce and high quality the toppings for shut up ream ingredients for a better tasting pizza.

tony morrison writer toni oni morrison rosalyn tony rhonda oprah tamara mellon Britney oprah louis john hopkins Rhonda rosalyn howard university molly fisher producer caitlyn youtube dell Google howard howard
Growing Up With Toni Morrison

The Nod

36:58 min | 1 year ago

Growing Up With Toni Morrison

"In this episode of the nod is brought to you by Sephora if you've ever visited a Sephora store you know they have aisles and aisles of makeup and skincare and with so many foundations to choose from finding the right shade can be intimidating fear not Sephora has developed a color our. It technology so that everyone can find an exact match for their skin color undertone and type with over three thousand shades. Sephora has a foundation condition for everyone find yours together with Sephora this up so the nod is brought to you by wire frame podcast ask from adobe and Gimblett creative wire frame is back for a second season and with it comes all new stories from the world of user experience design including the role of designers in online privacy and how sound notifications affect our mood not to mention have a user interface as seen in movies end up influencing the same design in the real world catch a newest season of wire frame today. Find it on spotify or wherever you get your podcast. This episode is brought to you by American family. Insurance American family insurance believes that our dream is the most valuable thing you will ever own. That's why they wanNA help carefully ensure what you've already achieved so you can fearlessly pursue your next big dream learn more at AMFAM DOT com American the family insurance insure carefully dream fearlessly American family insurance company SA in its operating companies six thousand American Parkway Madison Wisconsin Gimmick Media. This is not and Britain loose on August Fifth Twenty nineteen. The world world lost one of the best of us in Toni Morrison. I got the news as I was coming into work and I spent the rest of that. They trying to understand the shape and depth of a loss that huge but after the initial shock wore off the first emotion that I felt it wasn't sadness sadness or devastation. It was gratitude. I was happy just to have been born during her lifetime. You know that I got to witness and read her work. I just felt lucky. That was the depth of her gift. Unfortunately our show wasn't in production at the time of Ms Morrison's passing so we weren't able to memorialize her with an episode of the nod but our friends at the cut on Tuesdays put together a beautiful tribute to Miss Morison's impact that week featuring me and so many other black women I admire like I'm not too so of call your girlfriend and glory eat him of the well read Black Girl Book Club and we love this episode so much. We are sharing it with you today so here. It is from our friends at the cut. The episode called growing up with Tony Morrison from the cut and Gimblett media. This is the cut on Tuesdays. I'm your Smalley Fisher. I started to write when I was at a lonely pays and I was writing really for me and not for publication not for anybody. I was really talking the way of talking then so I talk to myself a lot this is Toni Morrison talking to PBS back in Nineteen nineteen seventy seven which means it's Tony Morrison before she was fully established as Tony Morrison to just published her first book seven years before and listening to her talk. You can hear someone who's still getting started. I certainly hope that I am a successful writer but I know that if there were no publishing companies left in the world I would still do it. It's a a little crazy to listen to this. Now you hear the name Toni Morrison and you think of the literary legend a Regal Nobel laureate whose books are a fixture on family bookshelves enlists of great American novels. That's the version of Tony Morrison that a lot of people my age and younger grew up with and she helped create a world where more people could imagine themselves doing what she'd he'd done to this week. In the wake of her death we wanted to hear from women who grew up in that world about how they first made their way to Morrison's work and what it's meant to them over the years she was a deity already before I was born like it was understood with a human people like Oh. This woman is she's everything we'll start with Britney loose. She's Co host of the not my mom she stayed at home with us in so oprah was always on four PM at least in on the east coast. It's four PM after school and Oprah was is not shy about choosing Tony Morrison for her co picks. Britney's mom watched Oprah and Britney's. MOM bought those books so they were always around the house and they felt familiar long before Brittany had actually actually read them even just a picture of Morrison on the jacket. She'll start a grandma. She looks like she looks like a like. A cool auntie grandma when she also has such a I mean Tony is is like such a Tony Rhonda Rosalyn like these are all good like auntie sister cousin grandma friend name like his name Rosalyn. Tony Rhonda like this is somebody who is going to be on the phone with three o'clock in the morning laughing. They always have the T. like she just had. I didn't mean that was just so like Tony Morrison. It's like it's. It's a complete sentence. I read the bluest eye. How old are you I. I was probably fifteen or sixteen 'cause it was around the house and it had an Oprah's book club. Pick at any of those that were in the house. I read them. The bluest eye was Morrison's first novel came out in Nineteen Seventy but she'd started it years before in a writing group at Howard University and for a lot of the women we talked to the the bluest eye was their first taste of Tony Morrison. It's a book that might catch your eye. If you're ten or thirteen or sixteen years old it tells the story of an eleven year old girl growing up in the nineteen forties ladies. She thinks she's ugly and what she wants more than anything is to have blue eyes like a white girl. I was growing up in the mostly white suburb Robert. I felt like I was sort of out of step with most of the other people around me but I didn't have the language for it and so when I I read the Bluest I I was reading it for the plot and that was like this is sad. I hadn't understanding in the like situationally in the book that she thought that Whiteness could save her from her life but like I didn't have a sophisticated understanding of how that same same sort of system of oppression was making me feel a certain way probably because maybe it was like two combination too obvious in too painful from the vehicle to connect that back to my own experience in a way that like really would have made me feel like totally like oh man. I'm fucked when she first read the bluest eye. Brittany wasn't focused on what Morrison listen could tell her about her life right now. She was more interested in what Morrison had to say about her possible. Future about all the things she didn't know yet when it came to being an adult the mother and the a father began having sexual relationship and there was some way that she described something like about feeling all of the colors or something like that which is basically euphemistic for hanging orgasm or at least experiencing some sort of like carnal pleasure. Let's say and like it was just the most delicate L. A. Cat but most tawdry like I was like. This is a door habit hit yet yeah. I haven't had experience with somebody else yeah. I'm like Oh my God is. This is like something interesting. There's also knew it wasn't just about the feeling or the event it was about put how that relationship drew her to this bound to this man yeah and it felt like real grown women stuff and shit a gave me a window into this idea that something else transpired when you had sex with. Somebody wasn't isn't just like this. this physical experience there was so much. There's so much else attached to it. It was like you and another person really working together or just not where it was collaborations I will yeah it was just sort of piqued my interest and it made me like Oh there's more here so that was what corporate attention the first time around but a few years later she read the bluest eye again and this time it hit her in a new way. It was the first semester of my freshman year at Howard University which is where I went and also where Tony went. I was in an all girls dorm and so the first semester we're all in freshman composition like our English class and they have us read the Bluest Eye uh-huh and reading the bluest eye among all those black girls at Howard where she went and where she taught and teaching this book I didn't think about how deep that was but that was a pretty deep experience at night they sit around the dorm talking about Toni Morrison. I had never really been around that large group of black women at once hearing black women from a variety of shades brown skin dark skin light skin like you know different types of hair in all different types of facial features and everybody's sort of opening up about how they hit experienced color them or how they hadn't realizing that they hadn't and and realizing what sort of like what was insidious about that yeah and not fair about that and so it was like that book was an entryway to so many conversations that I had that I cherished with so many women who are so close to me now. I think I felt pity when I read the book the first time I think that the second time only three years later I think I felt understanding. I think that was always the magic of Toni Morrison's books. How do you think it would be different now. Were it not for your experiences reading. Tony Morrison thing out Tony Morrison is I think for every black woman especially every black American woman she she made you feel like you deserve to take up space like there was a like. I don't know it's like there's this quote that she has. She is a friend of my mind. She gathered me man the pieces I am. She gathered them. She get them back to me and all the right order. It's good you know when you got a woman who is a friend of your mind that is that is how I think She's like the best friend. The smart friend like the most like the friends like reading. Her books felt like just having somebody. It just makes sense of you. Tony Morrison wrote books that got passed from hand to hand. Maybe from your mom or your cousin or are slightly older cooler friend so I I encountered her through my older sister who he's seven years older than me so we hey lock is a news writer at falter less week J- actually wrote up the blog posts that broke the news of Toni Morrison's death remembers I taking Morrison Offer Sister Shelf so when I was about eleven I remember just sort of hanging out in her bedroom while she was doing something completely different not really paying attention to me at all that I was just sitting around and to try to get her to talk to me. I was like Oh which book from your bookshelf. Should I read. I'm pretty sure she was very blase. It was very much. It's like do read the Bluest so I just decided I'll read the book and then we'll have something to talk to my sister about and she'll notice me and it'll be great although he was trying to impress her sister the book itself snuck up on her reading how Morrison's protagonist felt about Shirley temple recognize something she felt herself like the books and the TV shows that are filled with white heroes. I really desperately wanted to be but couldn't couldn't fully see myself in who'd you remember wanting to be or who who was like that to you when you were eleven when my immediately is Rory Gilmore more like I love Gilmore Girls. It's a good show but I remember wanting to like go to a boarding school in Connecticut and have her hair. Her hair would like being in a braid down her down her back. Sometimes I remember being like a liquor hair so beautiful and those Alexis del is Liz. There's a big blue eyes yeah yeah so for me reading it was like two main lesson one racism bad and I sort of already become very familiar with that so I was like okay that but then also the idea that these characters in books and TV shows I wanted to be so bad weren't for the solution solution to finding who I was as a person. A friend and I were talking about this recently. The question was what is a book that you know you are way too young to read and for me. It was the bluest eye I'm not too so as co host of call your girlfriend she discovered Morrison through the bluest eye to and even though it's a book about a kid it's dark not just because it's dealing with racism internalized and otherwise it also tells the story of a child who's raped and who becomes pregnant with her father's baby. I ran the Bluest I probably I wouldn't say I was nine or ten. I was a very very precocious reader so I just picked up everything around the house and Yeah I remember very much realizing as I was reading it that this was not something my parents now. I was reading and I just I remember just feeling so both this feeling feeling of like wow these are really adult themes but also these are things. These are things that are happening to me. I'm a survivor of childhood sexual assault and and reading this book was really It was really eye opening. I remember just feeling really affected by the by the story and saying like okay. This is not a thing I can talk talk to my mom and dad about because I like grab Muslim. There was like a lot of shame it was somebody who was very close to our families who was abusing me but this book was a place that I could dive into to really just like to to process. I just kept thinking like Oh. This is the thing that happens to people and and it's obviously very bad but also it will not destroy you like I think that for me. That was the overarching feeling. It made me feel like less alone. Every time I pick up that book. It's something that it hits me like a ton of bricks. Every time senior life mirrored that way in a book it's a powerful experience and as I got older older and got to know the rest of Morrison's work. She realized it was bigger than anyone story. It was a whole way of thinking about what stories could be and they were for you know just how much pleasure and pride and urgency she took in the fact that she wrote about black people for black people. I'm thinking about the interview that I like. I watch should all the time on Youtube and now I can't think about who the interviewer is but actually who cares interview whereas the Clippers Muniz talking about from an interview Tony Morrison did in Nineteen Ninety eight with the Australian alien journalist Yana vent vent who was white looks very serious as she turns to Tony Morrison and says this. You don't think you will ever change and right books. That incorporate wide wide lives into them substantially. I have done in a substantial. You can't understand how powerfully raise the question any as you could never ask a white author when you're gonNA write about black breath he did or not or she did even in curry comes from a position of being in the center and being used to being in the same gene used to being and saying you know. Is it ever possible that you will entered into mainstream. It's inconceivable that we're I already am and she really just like flips the question on its head and she's it's always like you never like all of the questions. I got sent her white people and actually like no like yeah like that's racist and I she's like I center myself and I sent her black people in my work. There's nothing wrong with that and I was like this is true. It's like I think about the you know. The cannon that I read in college on High School and and Tony Morrison pointed the she's like you know like nobody's he's asking tolstoy like writing for like. Are you writing for you know like for young. Russians is only for Russian. I it sounds and so I you know like I'm obviously making light of it and being a little flippant but I think that for so many of us that was that was game changing you know and she she never shrank. She wasn't provocative. She wasn't you know she was just telling the truth about who she was and and I really appreciate about it. Always seems particularly unfair that when someone dies they're not around to help you through their death the one person you don't get to hear talk about. Tony Morrison dying his Tony any Morrison but death something she came back to again and again in her writing after the break a ghost story this up so the nod is brought to you by borough with the cold weather starting to creep in TV shows returning. There's no better our time to cozy up on your couch with a remote in hand and I got a little routine. I organized my like snacks. I kind of like lay them out on my coffee table. Usually after I've eaten this next feet go up on the coffee table. Kid is asleep so I have to worry about anybody. Repeating that behavior yeah not I just lay back and settle in and usually like I emerge with Spring mid spring even after the is the railway springs yet and if you're like Eric and you plan on being glued to your couch all fall along why not do it like a pro borough sofas are made with durable fabric. That's both scratch and stain resistant plus. You can customize the fabric color leg finish or length to meet your specific needs. Don't settle L. for your same old. Couch settle into a new Comfy Borough Sofa. Get Seventy Five dollars off your New Sofa and free one week shipping at borough dot com slash undenied. That's B. U. R. O. W. dot com slash the nod this episode of the nod is brought to you by Sephora so recently I had an by opening experience at Sephora where I met Beatrice a beauty advisor at Sephora who's been there for over twenty years a years and she was amazing first of all her skin was incredible so I knew I was in good hands and also to shit really beautiful rose gold hair. They gave me a very stylish comfortable that I felt I could trust so she sat me down and she asked me about my current skincare and makeup routines jeans and I told her that one of the biggest reasons why it's hard for me to buy foundation or face makeup is because when you have a deeper skin tone like I do. It's hard to find makeup for people with red undertones despite that Beatrice took on the challenge and she actually managed to do the impossible. I was flabbergasted. I never had experience of really seeing foundation disappear into my skin like just totally blend in and do the thing I appreciated the most was and she educated me on how to use the product in a way that was my speed that was like the biggest thing it was like the most comprehensive the education that I've ever been given with over three thousand shades. Sephora has a foundation for everyone find yours together gather with Sephora today this episode the nod is brought to you by American family. Insurance American family insurance believes that a dream is the most most valuable thing you will ever own. Maybe it's a new house for your family opening a business or buying your dream car American family gets what it takes. They understand stand determination and hard work. That's why they've committed to providing support every dream out there and by offering customized coverage options American family the insurance of also hopes to help carefully unsure what you've already achieved so you can focus on fearlessly pursuing your next big dream learn more at Amfam and Fan Dot Com American family insurance insure carefully dream fearlessly American family insurance company SL in its operating companies six thousand American Parkway Madison Wisconsin. Welcome back today. We're hearing stories about discovering Toni Morrison and for some of the women we talked to after finding Morrison for themselves. They wanted to spread the word Glorieta remember. Doing I mean just that. She's the founder of well red black girl and she is also a big sister. I had a habit of like readings my little brother a lot. I would read in books that I didn't didn't understand and I read to him. Beloved is like Oh my Gosh I was young. I was probably like twelve or thirteen years old and there's five years younger so he was completely terrified but I remember like released him stop. This beloved is a ghost story. It's scary as Hell beloved tells the story uh-huh Mother who escapes from Slavery Chooses to kill her daughter rather than let the baby be taken by slave catchers years later. The daughter haunts her family as a literal ghost. Just as the legacy of slavery continues to Hong America. It's a lot for a seven year old or a twelve year olds to take in like going into like what is slavery with your little brother. There is just Kinda like well. I don't really know either but right. let's just keep going and does she makes me. WanNa move your. You're it even like the hard part. She makes you read through the struggle and understand what she means because she is so. She's worse than so even as a young person. I knew that I wanted wanted to like take this on. I wanted to have this experience in doing that. With my brother was really was really fun for him. Maybe not so much but for me reading out loud him and being like carrying him captivated by Morrison to bonded is it was our thing so we did together at the same time. Did you like scaring your little brother. Author high did of course online. We're five years apart so I do come up very very big sister and so I did love the fact the he believed everything I said sometimes when I was quoting things like he just thought he didn't know that was more than he thought I was making. You don't even you. It was just like my my movements of feeling like I'm in charge and I have a command language. Even though that's not the words I would've used at that point but it was just like if felt very adult and very refined l like I understand this. How do you think your life would be different now. If you're not read Tony Morrison how fuck I mean oh I mean so much of my identity is built around Morrison's fortitude and in her ability to make you not question yourself before it Morrison for sure lives in self-doubt. I didn't know if if I had permission or is allowed to be outspoken and as bold as I wanted to be even within the creation of wall red black girl saying well red black girl in itself a statement and I don't know if I could came to that conclusion without Morrison to feel just really uninhibited and free to be myself when you're reading a Kid. It's easy to grab onto whatever seems most sensational in an adult book. Maybe it's sex are ghost. You come back to it later though and things shift aft- Ghost Stories and Jessica Story. It's a different way of thinking about death Caitlyn. Greenwich is a writer a few years ago. She was teaching a literature class and she decided to make it about ghost stories and of course everything that she writes has a ghost. There's always a haunting. There's always a dead person in it of the many things that she writes about one of the things that she's really interested in is is this sort of like moving back and forth between these worlds between the living and she never calls it the dads imagine living and so. I started to think about her work in those terms as well. When Tony Morrison writes about death she doesn't treat it as something final and Caitlyn says that's drawing on a larger tradition and that sort of other way of thinking about what death means is very familiar to anyone who is familiar with death in African American cultures or just the African African diaspora in in general It's an understanding of deaths. That's based on this idea. That death is not a finality and the dead are with us and our our passes with us in a in a very real way and hunting is not something that is frightening aiming or a curse or a bad thing if another back it's a existence and you're sort of existing on these multiple claims and multiple layers and you move through those things and they can affect your daily life your material life your spiritual life depending depending on whether or not you are willing to reckon with listening writers reckon with ghosts all the time anyone who writes a book has to confront all the books that have come before decide how to claim a place alongside them years ago. Caitlin was a kid who pulled the bluest eye off her parents bookshelf now. CAITLYN's a novelist herself she and all the other writers we spoke to have just begun under reckon with Morrison's ghost. We die that may be meaning of life but we do right. That may be the measure of our lives. That's from the speech. Tony Morrison gave gave when she won the Nobel Prize and people of eulogized her in the last week. Those are lines. They keep coming back to but the part that comes next is worth remembering to comparison used your speech to tell a story she describes a wise old woman who's blind and a group of young people who approach her with what sounds like a trick question they tell the woman that they're holding a bird the NASCAR whether it's living or dead the woman waits a while before giving them an answer. She says the bird is in your hands Once upon a time visitors asked an older woman a question who who are the these children. What did they make of that encounter. What did they hear. In those final words. The bird is in your hands. A sentence that gestures toward possibility ability or one drops a language. Perhaps with their children heard wise. It's not my problem. I am old female by what was my have. Now is knowing you cannot help you. The future of language is your all the women we talked doc to settle their encounters with Morrison had opened the door to their own work how she had told them in one way or another. The future of language is yours. I went to an event that that she was at and I just sat close to the front row in grand at her like an idiot but I didn't try to speak to her because I was shy this. This is Angela Flournoy novelist. Angela saw Tony Morrison onstage just a few years ago at that. Point Morrison certainly could have rested on her laurels. She had all the laurels in the world to rest don but what she did on that stage was she pulled out a legal pad and it was something she had written like very very recently and she read it. She was still working. You know she was older and she was you know in the wheelchair and probably had various ailments because she was still working and that was something that was kind of like a kick in the pants remained confined any reason for it to not be the right time you know to work Angela. I read Morrison's work when she was a teenager and it sparked something in her then years later still sparking something morrison is a writer to discover discover and rediscover and even now that our work is everywhere reading it for the first time can still feel like finding something. That's just for you back when the writer Ashley See Ford was in junior high she she was always getting in trouble it wasn't she didn't care about school. It was that no one at school seemed like they cared about her. She was always frustrated with arbitrary rules and lessons. I was sitting sitting in classrooms reading books of long with my teacher and being ferociously board the because the books just didn't in have anything to do with the lives. Any of us were living because she was always questioning the teachers he was always getting sent to detention but when she was there all she wanted to do was read and one of the few black instructors in my middle school was also the detention coordinator donator so he you know seeing this was like you really don't belong here. You know I'm GonNa send you to the library and the library and actually was superman and not like any of US keeps. I still don't know why should it came a school librarian because she clearly eighty. It's but I was in there. You you know and I'm going through the bugs that she's like. I and me and I just I'm like let me just find a buck and set out so I went and I saw this book and on the cover was a little black girl and the way her hair was parted and the darkness of her skin essentially because at that time every book look like a steal from like the scene from Dawson's creek or something it was always just it was always like book covers for teenagers or young adults were always just like white kids dressed like they listen to a lot of Kurt cobain and so I pick up the bluest eye and it it just looked familiar at the bike looking at a picture of my grandma when she was a kid you know or or even like my mom when she was a kid and I sat down and I started reading. It and I didn't look up for for the rest of the hour like I just didn't look. I didn't look up until the detention. Coordinator came to the library and was like hey it's time to go and I was like can I check out this uh-huh and the library goes no and he was like way what she can't check out a book from the library the issue like well. It's not her library times and so like he was like okay. Let's all calm down. I'm pretty sure she didn't check out the pot and she let me check out the book. Finally I by took the book home and I finished it that day which was not uncommon for me. I've always been a fast reader and love to read what was uncommon was that after I finished it. I went back to the front and started it again. Here's the thing about that book. At twelve I read it and couldn't really understand it. I couldn't really understand the emotions and the depth and the depravity and and all of those things that were built in into this gorgeous novel I couldn't see them all clearly but there was something about that book that told me like this is what riding can be and it just opened up this world for me about not just finding good stories but also the interesting ways that stories could be told and the powerful way that stories could be told and before. I read the bluest eye to be perfectly honest S. I don't think I knew that anybody cared what a little black girl fought or how she felt. I thought I had been born into a world where nobody would care who I was. What I thought what I could give what could contribute how much I love my huge capacity capacity for love in some way school made me feel like that in some ways my home life that in a lot of ways the world and medium made me I feel like that and I read this book and realized that had been written by a black woman and that it was about a black girl and a black world in a black past and a black family you know and the black pain the thing about Toni Morrison's life for a lot of writers like me especially chilly black women writers as that she doesn't just give us permission to write our world our lives and our language but she it also gives us permission to write. Whatever the hell why I have a place that is mine. That's my work work. When I write that's fine. This is Toni Morrison on Oprah in two thousand eleven. It is free on nobody. Nobody tells me what to do and I would listen if they did a whole. It's all it's my world. I have invented. These are my people this vile language and now. I have come to believe that everybody needs those places. If you have never read Tony Morrison don't feel ashamed about it. Here's not me not to so again. Just pick up a book and start anywhere just starting here because I I'm never gonNa get to experience her for the first time again and I'm really jealous of people who won't on Tuesdays is produced by Sarah mcbean it being a Livia nap. Our senior producer is kimmy regular for edited by Lin. Levy and Stella be mixing by Munger and Peter Leonard. Our Music is by Haley Shaw Emma Monger Hunger and Peter Leonard our theme song is played right by Sylvan Esso special. Thanks to John Hopkins Thaler Alison Davis Ruth Spencer Sade Page on Thomas Kacha Bochco and Erica Speakers House and cut on Tuesdays production of Gimblett media and the cut in the summer of nineteen ninety. The legendary group to laugh crew had their music declared legally obscene. What followed was a nationwide battle over art free speech and the future the hip hop stood up went to war fight against the government in democracy. You know what I'm saying on the new season mogul from spotify gamely media. We're telling a story one of the biggest controversies the twentieth century you can stream the entire season a mogul now exclusively on spotify episodes drop on Wednesdays everywhere else this don't settle for your same old couch settle into a Comfy New Borough Sofa get seventy five dollars off the new Sofa and free one shipping being at borough dot com slash. Not That's B. U. R. O. W. dot com slash denied.

Toni Morrison writer Tony MOM Sephora spotify Black Girl Book Club Howard University Wisconsin Tony Rhonda Brittany Oprah Tony Rhonda Rosalyn Smalley Fisher Britain B. U. R. O. adobe Oprah
Toni Morrison Talks with Hilton Als

The New Yorker Radio Hour

48:36 min | 1 year ago

Toni Morrison Talks with Hilton Als

"In the following episode new yorker writer hilton all's quotes a line from toni morrison's book jazz that contains the n. word. We've left the line uncensored from one trade center in manhattan. This is the new yorker radio hour a co production of the new yorker and w._n._y._c. studios <music> welcome to the new yorker radio hour. I'm david ramnik. The sad news came early this week. The tony morrison one of the greatest american writers of this or any other age had died at the age of eighty eight. Morrison was the first african american to win nobel prize in literature and it can surely be said in her long career. I is an editor then as an author and as a teacher she helped transform the shape of our culture her novels including song of solomon and beloved or at the core of the american language and our sense of collective memory in two thousand fifteen morrison published. I would be her last novel called. God help the child about a girl rejected and abused for the darkness of her skin that was also the year that the country entry was still reeling from the deaths of michael brown and eric garner at the hands of police officers the previous summer and that fall morrison came to the new yorker festival to speak with the magazines hilton all's tony. I've i've written this little ditty. <hes> if you can bear with me okay okay in recent months and years the black american male has been central central to a number of debates books panels and editorials that ended up being for me at least a weird or stilted business generally the language around that familiar and unfamiliar form has little to do with his humanity and more to do with the pressure points guilt remorse remorse and so on his dead or living self aggravates and because he's less interesting in the context of joy we know less about about his achievements than not the news is generally not so new the continued violence to his body this violence extensive of course to his community which includes mothers and brothers and all the people who never considered him invisible trivial or tragic or extinguish english to begin with in those family members is the eyes of love of complicated fraternity devastation is not not an abstraction relegated to a town or village with names such as ferguson staten island with cincinnati ohio but a very real thing attached to names given to the loss by parents or mothers grandparents people who attached great importance to michael's name and eric's name and samuel's name every name comes with the story dear to those who bestowed it in her extraordinary career the novelist toni morrison author eleven novels several several works of nonfiction and one thousand nine hundred three winner of the nobel prize for literature has given names to any number of her black male characters. There's names that a story in themselves. Chilly breed love shadrack jude green making dead milkman dead dead guitar son paul de joe trace golden grey deacon derek morgan is twin stewart tool gauzy the blacksmith in mercy frank money and booker in her last novel two thousand fifteen god bless the child god individual stories that not only push put those black male bodies together again but took them apart the better for us to see plainly and complicated -ly himself and the country and history that made him every great novelist reflects his or her times times zoeller told us something about the dreyfuss case at mataafa stalin's rule baldwin the civil rights movement and morrison the total effect the war of has history has embodies and how behavior absence shapes those bodies to she wants to raise that absence and fill in figures with her strong. I sure hand years ago when asked her opinion opinion of ralph ellison's invisible man she was unqualified in her praise of ellison's artistry and yet the question remained hung fire. Who was that black man invisible to not to her. He was her brother her father her friend just as tony morrison the virtue of her work has become the unqualified authoritative voice when it comes to describing a world and that makes an makes all those brothers fathers and friends ladies and gentlemen our voice and our sister toni morrison morrison yes no there was this very intense moment in my young life as a reader where i read part of a speech that even given a talk and you said that one of the things that was interesting to you about america was that despite bestial fuel behavior we had failed to produce a nation of bee's may we're going to get to that and then when i thought of that quote again i thought of what i call elegance of survival. That's in your books. <hes> son in torah baby for instance is regarded as a sort of feral character and yet he dreams of those women of color who restored order in the black church to them the world. Would you like to elaborate a bit on your original statement and do still feel. It's a little true or listen. I was thinking when i made that statement of the really vile and violent and and best you'll treatment on slaves and their descendants but they did not succeed in making those ios descendants reproduce that violence and that corruption best geology their their response was i. It's a little contemporary but i was really surprised when the survivors survivors and family members of those people who had been killed in that church was not i want him. Did it was something else. That was grander. It was humane and it was eloquent and l. again. You know we sponsor forgiveness which we always assume for some reason is of kind of weakness and that we always but sometimes we understand that kind of generosity and i'm not gonna let you tear meet up as a kind of weakness whereas i always taught at that was extreme strike extreme. Do you think that's a way of preserving the community <hes> that if you do do the sort of <hes> for an eye thing you're stepping outside of the community and then you're really endanger indeed <hes> it's just about vengeance engi- and what you think is justifiable punishment for someone who has done something violent or wrong then you then. You've made that connection. You're like that person and the community. I mean i'm not so sure that it's true now but i'm sure it's true in some places but my notion of community is the recollection of the one. I knew best growing up aw where i was saying to somebody recently. <hes> adults can no longer say go outside outside and play because it's scary out there for me. These say all of us as children children back in ohio go outside and play. It was almost like a command. Go play and you came in at lunchtime. Kc and there are a lot of people in my generation who know that even in places like new york city but now discipline of care that's right and but the point woz whatever you were doing there was somebody else in the community who knew where you were who you were and and whether or not you were in difficulty <hes> neighbors people who walked by and they all so they knew each other but you know those were that was a real community not one that's just fearful and full of locked doors and maybe somebody will help me today like online thought one of the things i'm skipping ahead. A little bit fascinating fascinated me about home. Home was the idea of sanctuary that one of the things that happens in the book that you establish early on that each person of color he meets on his journey because they're not asking questions about his legitimacy they know his legitimacy and and he gets home <hes> which doesn't exist anymore really in the way shape that he knew it but those people establish a fraternity sean hannity of you are us your our son. Oh yeah i remember traveling on chains in my children were small going from say washington back to while and in those in some of those places mrs when we were traveling in the south not with my children but before there were cars were colored people sat uh-huh and white people sat and other cars but the most important thing was the porters who gave you twice says much orange juice or four sandwiches and two pillows they were so excessively generous in kind so it was like a luxury luxury car what they thought and i was thinking not too long ago that if i walk down the street at night in new york when i was at cornell and if i saw black man i would run toward him then i thought these days he's with all of the discussion about black men as threats i would not do that. I may not do that but i certainly wouldn't run toward the white me. I might just have to flip a law. All come figured out <hes> yeah. I'm curious about the idea of <hes> exists so much and so beautifully in your books about fraternity you know we have guitar and milkman and on and on and on on one of the things that i've always loved you saying that you read the new york times pencil you copy while you go along yeah scratch. There's there's the split between the real. Life self reads the papers and knows this and not about the world and then there's the imagine negative self who doesn't really work with the facts so much right we imagining the story story. Do you feel as a reader of the new york times and as a writer that it's difficult or complicated sometimes to separate the stories that you were just telling that we read in the papers and the story that you mean to tell about a difference and it hasn't changed a great deal. It used to be here absence now. It's manipulative ability. I remember when the new york times started using the word. Try so and so tried to no one never does anything they just try. They don't say the treasury department they say obama. They don't say the this is the kind of coon yeah. The language is manipulated and strangled in such a way that you get the message although the veneer of accuracy and forthrightness is they're. They're not the only one in new york. Times is just a new york times but you know i. I know that there's a difference between the received story not just in the press but also on t._v. And and what is actually going on when i was writing hole i had the green book the one that tells people where they can spend the night in where they can eat and i got a copy of it as a matter of fact uh from the library at princeton so that i could have him go there in have porters or pre features or friends that he'd met in a restaurant. Tell him where he could sleep or take him in so that but i never identified him i am originally. I gave in finally but i never identified him. When i wrote home as a black black man you didn't know at all. I just wanted to just if he couldn't go to this fountain. I don't know if he couldn't go to the bathroom had to go in the bushes the resort now but i never use the word but my editor said well tony we have got so i put a little something in the beginning planning so here interested it wasn't quite like <hes> paradise so you can focus on race and then you can hunt for it or you can ignore it over whatever but this is not what it's generally about but on his way on his way back he is stopped or he has to go someplace else though it's early and he's a shell shock guy had us last his friends you know in the war and so on but i wanted home the actual we'll place that he'd want to leave because it was small and boring and whatever to be so welcomed by him yes and the reader so i with held all color trees flowers whatever until he got really close to home that's exactly right and then he says the trees always this grade in the flowers this without somewhere over the rainbow. That's right the would feel that he that he or she had returned to a place that was you know they may not like you but they're not gonna hurt you and it was it was fascinating to read a notice that that the atmosphere was drained of color that if you just simply did what what judy garland did an open the door new home right. We're not in kansas anymore. There's something something that has been on my mind a lot since i've read <hes> paradise and heard the horror about planned parenthood and then i immediately thought of mavis waivers and the ladies in paradise and how the man in our particular government not unlike the man who wanted to kill over these women because of the mystery of female loving fraternity and support of control yes can't control <music> so kill him well not quite that simple but they were not under the control of the authoritarian of the black towns that had grown almost like the enemies were running from where they were excluded in themselves and so they translated slated that into the superiority of blackness and control and maleness and authoritarian so if they're going to live in an ex convent with these women who just drift in and out who have different kinds of morals or activities and so on that it threatens their whole concept of themselves they can only see it in terms of themselves not the women's i see few men in the town that do but the major ones either who run that town get together and slaughter them because they're you're dangerous. I mean they've lots of places in the world who this happens. I won't mention them but you know but there's still some women you know who get do something bad like have an affair and so that necessity for for control. That's male see my thing is this. I think in the beginning you know there were a lot the female gods goddesses in the early civilizations in because men thought that women just gave birth magically whenever they felt like it was too and then they began to farm and they had domesticated animals and domesticated animals could reproduce in three months or one month. Short term didn't take a year nine months and so the guy. I said hey wait a minute. She's not the one who gives live without ask nothing. All god's changed names. There was some little girlie god's that's my historical view of the change control was that the genesis of paradise ru was explore that issue of control or to explore the issue of female fraternity got came came a little bit later what i was most interested in i looked at these history of the black towns in oklahoma and out west in kansas and there there were pictures in newspapers of men who were mayors whatever the administration of these towns and ad was always come prepared or not at all come or not at all and they were all very fair these guys who were standing there with that it's and i thought well maybe if we if you don't have anything now. Can you get in what they didn't let these men in they were poor. They were very black with the call eight rock and so they were rejected by by a certain group of other colored men and so they went on and founded their own town unfortunately they became as discriminatory and authoritarian as the people who throw them out or wouldn't let them in and they were holding onto eight rock and who belonged in the clan and very retrograde so any modernity from these women. It would be threatening to them right because it's reordering the socio. I see i see i. It's a great book and one of the things that it makes me remember in terms of the early exploration action of men and women and male was that there was this very great. I think <hes> b._b._c. documentary very early. In your career i think around the time of songs solomon when i come out and <hes> you said that you really didn't have much to do with it that the characters told you when something was just right and <hes> in your first two books of bluest iron soula it's the women despite the hardship were just right. There's not one imperfect they're in perfect perfect to an import jude and the dewey's and so on a catalyst for now and yes and i was just wondering can you share with us what you might have learned from looking at your sons and your father in order to move into song of solomon particularly my father you know writing about primarily women as the most i am. The largest characters in lewis giant song into la when i began to write song of solomon which i thought was a horrible title by the way no more song of solomon. What does that the name salome above so what gets me and my title but i i i. I do remember thinking. I don't really know what the interior life of a man is <music> as a writer. Maybe is a human but certainly this arising and just before that my father died and i remember remember thinking i wonder what my father knew about his friends and so on and he didn't say anything because he was dead but but i had this incredible serene feeling that i would know that somehow how it would come to me that i could write about this young middle-class making dead in his friend guitar and his search you know and it was true true and i felt secure and i felt strong as a matter of fact it was so much of the maleness in that when pilot appeared she was just taken over the book. Yes and i kept saying wait a minute. This is my match chill. She's very you know sort of course worker vary now. So i shut her up. She said something at the funeral and interethnic milkman asir wizar- naval what's happened tornado. She says beats me. I've have always loved hearing you talk about your father because he seems like the most incredibly supportive man <hes> in the world and you've also said in in several interviews that he was racist. We know we know racism out of kind of hurt or in <hes> in his case. I didn't understand he wounded. We've lived the house insurance man sin and i ask him and my mother was just the opposite. She didn't care who you were. If you were a nice a nice to me and also we live in black neighborhoods. There were hungarians next door in polish people in jewish people anyway but at the start that was a quirk and then i learned i went down to the little town where my father was born with the name of that carter's ville georgia and a man there is name is waffen. There's a wall cherokee golly so we know who owned the joint. Think wofford is my maiden name but one of the men who was a child at the time and grew up open that little said that my father had seen two black men lynched on his street it didn't they were businessmen they had little stores and so on and so he was fourteen and he left and went to california and then he ended up in ohio but i think seeing that it fourteen not the murder of some some terrible person or the lynching of some bad person but the lynching of two neighbors and i think that's why he thought that white people were always incorrigible doomed in addition to this he went back to georgia every year to visit family and my mother who thinks of her days in alabama ma were heard the sweet lovely little kitty in though in the woods the flower on this awesome out there. She never went yeah but he was probably written about this several times. He did a couple of things i had title job cleaning a woman's house and i was about twelve thirteen years after school and the woman mm-hmm was caught mean to me meaning. I didn't know where she was talk. I'd never seen the washing machine or vetch etch gene or stove. That was anything other side didn't know quite episodes. I complained to my mother. Remember the quit. Quit getting two dollars. A week gave one to my mother and other dollar i kept for candy and i told my father and he said go to work. Get your money and come on home. You don't live there. Oh okay this is it. I mean it was a whole different. I haven't had an employment problem sense. Ah that's not where i live. I live with your family but my father after the during the war those of us black people poor. People got really good jobs when they were not drafted. My father became a welder and shipyard a highly skilled job and he came home one day and he said do you know today. I welded a perfect seeing on the ship and i said yeah but daddy. Nobody's gonna see you know. He said it was so perfect. I put by initials underneath g._w. And that's what i said. Nobody's going to see that he said i know but i know always really was not so much. Good work for show. It was good work that he approved of even if it was hidden in private and that sense of self approval yes right was important to me and so when you think your father was alive when he's i started to publish what was his response to my mother. My sister said he was is reading the laughing. I never asked he was chuckling. You know us us an acknowledgement of having having welded your perfect. <hes> one of the things things that <hes> we've talked about a little bit is working the theater and how that going inward to the character and having the character say i to that person i and so on has i think been underexplored in your work. Your love of theatre has continued eared from writing the book for new orleans in nineteen eighty-three writing <hes> dreaming emmett in nineteen hours good. That's a great play. <hes> that wouldn't let anybody see no and also the lyrics for of course you about margaret varner time hard honey and roo yeah songs yes and also your work with peter sellers does <hes> have the scripts working in that medium have informed the novels which have great moments of dramatic intensity all the way around the other way well. I think novels inform the ties very much because the the novels are very visual to me and staged in a way emily. I hope they don't feel staged but i do see scenes scenes and theatrical scenes and dialogue. The hardest thing for me was the last one does dimona because that was peter sellars did othello. He said he would never do a fellow and i said why he says too thin. There's nothing going on you talking about and he said well. There's just this acid look. It's not then i said. People just think is jack right guy who kills us late girl and something something something presented as think about her. Here's a woman who ran away eloped with a more yes and went to war with him. I mean this is not some nmls shrinking little girl this on so he did rattle in his interesting way and then he asked me what i wanna do desimone and i certa did thinking of her the way i just described and thought look i'm not competing with billions shakespeare here i. I couldn't think how i could do it. That was not sort of silly parody or sometimes until i got the first line which was my name is dennis domon does dimona means debt does devoted leads and then the rest. It was sort of her voice so she could. She could name herself. That's right yeah so i've been reading a lot and thinking about the ways in which the men have this relationship to their fathers others that is often uneasy here and <hes> fantastic in all senses of the word and in jazz. There's that extraordinary scene with golden grey <hes> and his father <hes> he tracks down his father whose lot plot and golden grades mixed race and he says <hes>. I don't wanna be a free nigger. I wanna be a free man and the father says henry louis destroys. The father is what you want wider blah choose but if you choose what you got to act it's black meaning. Draw your manhood up. Tell me what you will. He was trying to express because it's q. Different generations about modernism shoot but at the same time you've got to act black for him would mean grow grow up. Get tough. You know there's there's nothing to hold you this song. That's what acting black like a a black man meant to henry's joy as opposed to. I don't know whining and complaining. You did me wrong some yeah. I did we wrong that was powerful for him. A black man is a powerful a tough strong in the move into the well back to <hes> a little bit of <hes> henry with whom i loved in jazz <hes> as much as i loved his son and there's this extraordinary flannery o'connor quote. I wanted to share with you where she says blackman the blackmail southern puts. It's my split. Hairs is a man of very elaborate manners and great formality which he uses superbly for his own protection action to ensure his own privacy. That's true the men in jazz. Despite the severity of their actions are all private figures. It's paul de to me in his love is also a private figure. They move a journey but there's a great deal to risk. If you share don't love nothing too much you know which which is not what paul de says woman says that but you he has what tobacco ten his chest where he keeps everything livid all the profound emotions breakdown emotions and he doesn't want anybody to open up that loom tobacco tin which he is version of a heart and it is protection these been through some terrible travel times. It's like i can't remember her name. One of the women in the town don't love nothing eighty. She doesn't mean don't care for things. Don't get into involved. Don't live sweep you away. Don't let it <hes> curdle you in the sense and he tries that and does that it succeeds it. Until of course he meets zephyr in you know who who <hes> he does come back to touching through trauma right big time it is to me the greatest i human endeavor or action that we can do is to get past ourselves to touch somebody else in a real way and one of the things that happens to me when i'm reading your books is there's always a scene where the impossible happens happens the impossible meaning through the trauma of race or sex or history. There's a moment where they you want to touch another person. It's like milkman. Sister says i corinthians. She says you think that your life is that hog. Gut between your legs and you're you were saying i felt when i read the book it's not as limited as that that it is something about getting past that and be a person so it's humanity <hes> and the the pathos of getting past the trauma to even try everything. I have written including the first book. I wrote even there. Yes although i didn't know i was gonna forever do it. Every one of those is the movement toward knowledge and if somebody somebody doesn't know main character doesn't know something extremely important at the end of the book that he or she didn't know in the beginning or throughout then it doesn't work for me. It's not like a happy ending all. I don't mean that it's just it's not an aha moment is just that you you grow you learn something you know and whole he could never have buried that man and said he allies man yes which is all the away from the beginning of the book but he sees these horses and they look so mail and so powerful and masculine <music> violence escalating violence beauty horses fighting one so at the end that sentence they fought like men becomes here lies a man real man who provision major himself to be killed so that his son could currently does that transformation happen up in kennett happen without sacrifice or something. I don't think it can be a little sacrifice doesn't have to be severe via punishment but that's the press that's the urgency about life volition yeah <hes> that's where i push so that when when seth a saying oh she was my best thing in politics says you this day and she says me you know like who me three nasa. She never thought of herself as the valuable one. The god bless the child is a takes place in contemporary so called contemporary world of the uh. Yeah i started home. I started god bless. The child also horrible title also and i started home and finished because that was period that i could sort of understand. I couldn't right about now. I felt because it was so slippery. The there was no it wasn't definite enough until i thought i realize though what was very definitive about now is so powerfully flu powerfully self reverential southeast look at me. Now who's about me stories about me and i thought okay if she goes becomes this glamorous creature it will be in cosmetics cosmetics which is all about beauty and good and you know so on and for him it would be hanging onto the absence of his older brother. It doesn't have anything to do with what his sisters thing or what his father things. They lost that child also aw but he really lost him so he leaves. He goes away tive college number. Nothing is satisfactory. He's better than everything thing. He's going to write the great books he's going to do you know. He has all asia and do any of it. He can't even play a decent corn. I mean you know he plays a little bit but nobody takes it seriously so he's cutting himself off at the leg because he's hanging onto you know this what about me in how i feel so the coming together when somebody can listen to a conversation between these two people and they can listen to each other and know that this something valuable badly in the person good ending when you have but when you when you talk about the idea of me and self fees and all of that that noise let's say that doesn't exist in other centuries or other times was was. Were you discuss back to reading where you distracted by the reality of now before you could tell the story you know i always. We say you know remember when i was girl. A young girl we called citizens american citizens don't than american and citizens this american citizens that we were second class citizens boop that was the word and then after world war two in in the fifties and sixties. They started calling us consumers. The american consumer needs or should or man and so we did it come to now. They don't use those words anymore. Listen the american taxpayer and those are different attitudes citizen. You think your block or your neighbors or your town or something is part of you. If you're a consumer you just go to the store shot you know layaway unle- away and saw but if you are only a tax payer you're worried about who's got some money that you pay you pay you don't you don't want the government to distribute its own resources that are based on taxes to anybody. You're you're sort of angry. It's like like your money because they called you taxpayer not a citizen. All you do is pay taxes. That's a whole different thing so so that's part of what i was feeling generally speaking when i was writing god bless the child. That's what i thought was distinctive. You know about the period. I want to tell you what the title of that book was before. I was forced to change danger. I called it the wrath of children. That's a great title. Everybody as you know. I aged editor. The editor in chief died that that i said he just busted fuss and i know i don't always have good title but i thought the wrath yeah so. This was sounded like billie holiday. This is great. Thank you tony only going to be one of those boys in the ring getting up. Thank you the thanks in lovely off. Tony morrison died this last monday. She spoke with the new yorkers. Hilton all's in two thousand fifteen at the new yorker festival. You can read hilton's profile of morrison at new yorker dot com the new yorker radio hour is a co production of w._n._y._c. studios and the new yorker our theme music was composed and performed by merrill garbis of tune tune yards with additional music by alexis gaudreau. This episode was produced by alex barron. Emily boutin ave correo reincorporate. Jill dubov karen filmon mccollough leah david crafts now louis mitchell and stephen valentino with help from rhonda sherman david ohana bradley g mung fei chen and emily man the new yorker radio hour is supported in part by the tarini endowment fund <music>.

tony morrison editor the new york times writer ohio solomon toni morrison morrison new york kansas nobel prize ralph ellison emily derek morgan david ramnik manhattan ferguson staten island morrison sean hannity henry louis
Be Free  (Toni Morrison Tribute) - Episode 33

Rants and Randomness with Luvvie Ajayi

05:22 min | 1 year ago

Be Free (Toni Morrison Tribute) - Episode 33

"Their favorite teachers we will never meet in eighth grade. My favorite english teacher signed us toni morrison's soula. I've always as love reading so it was nothing to jump into the book once. I was on those pages those words mesmerized me engulfed me hug me. It was probably one of the few times i it didn't procrastinate to the last minute to write a book report and ever since then i revisit that book as reminder that we all have a purpose. Even the worst of us had the best the reasons for being on this planet. I started blogging in two thousand and three as a college student ranson about her random undergrad ventures and blogging took on a life of its own home for me but right and gave me voice even when i thought nobody was listening still. I didn't call myself a writer until twenty twelve nine years after i started for me. The word writer was to sacred and honestly like i made up to something that someone like tony morrison would use to describe herself how dare i didn't feel like at earn title that people use for ms morrison we end in the same stratosphere yet club while we were in had i been listening and absorbing her words i i would have known that because toni morrison's words gave freedom to black girls and women to be who they want to be instead into the world as who they are tony's works teach us to be freer. She gave me the freedom to be who got purpose may be. It's like that quote of hers. The function of freedom is to free someone else tony morrison free meat. I can be courageous with my word because this giant sword with hers. Her words were convicting consoling encouraging. She treated us like grown-ups entrusted us with those letters to do as we wanted. If there's a book that she wanna read but it hasn't hasn't been written yet. You must write it. Miss tony told us that and who not to listen that quote appears on page two of my debut book. I'm judging you. The do better emmanuel. Her words literally been life's instructions for me. I took them to heart. Tony moore was unabashedly a truth teller beyond her works. Her interview showed how this woman dropped constant gems and worse to challenge a world that didn't check itself often that based on her voice. It wasn't just to make words sing going paper but to make your chest quake when she dropped a truth like her piece on the functional racism. Every interview was a masterclass and that quote. Oh it's the function. The very serious function of racism is distraction. It keeps you from doing your work. It keeps you explaining over and over again and your reason for being somebody says you have no language and you spend twenty years proven that you do somebody says your head is shaped properly so you have scientists working on the fact fact that is somebody says you have no art so you dress that up. Somebody says you have no kingdoms so you dress that up. None of this is necessary very there will always be one more thing i for one i count myself as fortunate to live in the space and time where tony morrison existed existed and was celebrated and revered. I never got to meet her or hear. Her speak live but that would have been a bonus. I feel content because what what more do i need from the woman who gave you permission to be myself and to follow the crooked purpose of wordsmith in in the moments when i feel lazy when i wonder whether words matter all i need to do is pull up a morrison pros. All i need to do is recall. How soula feels like a person. I note all i need to do is read something about how song of solomon gays someone wings do words matter toni morrison's life and legacy is uncompromising proof that words don't just matter but what they breathe and saying and sore and those of us who right must right loudly to the rafters the stages were given their temporary what we say into those mics could be forever. Toni morrison taught me that you can be black. You can be a woman you can be gifted. You can be celebrated and give perceive your roses while oh you are still here. She's gone but her words are immortal along may her work rain. We hell you queen. Eighty eight years on this curse and your work is done but your impact is just beginning. That is a life well lived. May we all use our gift to light up the world so so thank you tony for affirming this black girl. The world is less brilliant today but the world is more than lucky to have had you. I say she's toni morrison first of her name architect. The words acclaimed author teller of truths shift of culture neta of noble prize in writing domino legendary laureate the people's professor may she rest in peace empower <music>.

tony morrison Miss tony ms morrison morrison Tony moore writer professor twenty twelve nine years Eighty eight years twenty years
Language Matters: Mass Shootings, China Currency, and Toni Morrison

Skimm This

11:42 min | 1 year ago

Language Matters: Mass Shootings, China Currency, and Toni Morrison

"It's tuesday august sixth. Welcome to skim this. We're breaking down the most complex stories of the day and giving you the context on why they matter today today we're diving into the different narratives making headlines after this weekend's tragic mass shootings will connect the dots on why people are bringing up things like mental health and video games and how experts brits are responding then the u._s. is calling out china for being a quote currency manipulator. We'll tell you what that means and finally we look back on the life and legacy agassi of the great toni morrison's. We're here to make your evening smarter. Let's skim this. The most complicated story today is about the different narratives coming out of a tragic weekend yesterday on our show. We talked about to mass shootings this weekend in el paso texas and dayton ohio at least thirty one people died dozens more were wounded. One alleged shooter was arrested. The other was killed. Police are still looking for motives in dayton but in paso prosecutors are pointing to a hate filled anti immigrant manifesto allegedly published by the shooter what's played out since then has followed taylor script thoughts and prayers then calls for action. Here's president trump in a speech from the white house. Yesterday we must honor the sacred memory of those we have lost by acting as one people open wounds cannot heal if we are divided we must seek real bipartisan quarters solutions but the reactions to the shooting are partisan and divided there are very distinct narratives pointing to why these shootings happened and and what it is about our country that needs to be addressed so today we're going to get into some of the big narratives how some are pointing to things like mental illness and video games while others are pointing to deeper concerns over hate filled rhetoric yesterday. President trump tweeted about background checks but didn't bring it up again. During in his live remarks he talked about this mental illness and hatred pulls the trigger not the gun talking about issues of mental health has been a common common refrain after mass shootings. One thing republicans said they want to do is pass. More red flag gun laws basically if you think someone could pose a threat to themselves or others you can flag them to a judge and then the authorities can prevent that person from having a gun. Some democrats are on board with these laws too but mental illness hasn't come out as a driving factor in either mass shooting this weekend at least not yet and mental health professionals today say blaming mass shootings on mental illness. This is misleading studies show that only a small percentage of violent crimes are committed by people who have been diagnosed with a mental health issue. The rate of homicides homicides is much higher in the u._s. than other countries but when it comes to mental illness were not that different from the rest of the world and just a reminder when president trump i took office. He actually loosened some gun laws which made it easier for people who had been diagnosed with mental until illness to buy a gun in the first place so some people are blaming mental illness. President trump and others are also blaming video games. Here's the texas lieutenant governor dan patrick on fox news on sunday. What's changed in this country. We've always had guns. We've always had evil but what's change where we see this rash of shooting a video game industry that teachers young people to kill the idea that video games make people more violent has been around since the nineteen nineties but studies show. There's no link between the two and violent movies aren't linked to this kind of thing either but some some people say all this is just a distraction and that there's a bigger issue at play here hate and the language some people in power are using to promote and spread it according to reports the el paso shooter drove more than ten hours to a town along the u._s. Mexico border to launch his rampage <hes> before the shooting he posted a manifesto that included white nationalist and racist language directed at immigrants. He said that this attack was quote. A response to the hispanic invasion of texas people are pointing to white supremacists forums that talk about the great replacement that people of color are supposedly taking the place place of white people in society use words like invasion to describe it. Some of this language isn't just on the dark. Corners of the internet is being used in mainstream media and in the debate over immigration but el paso is the hometown of presidential candidate better rourke speaking to reporters. Yesterday he pointed the finger at president trump's rhetoric immigrants specifically described as racist criminals warning of an invasion talking about infestation. He is awards part responsible for what is taking place. This isn't just a gut reaction. The new york times reports that since january the trump campaign has posted two thousand facebook ads that refer to immigration using the word invasion. He's also tweeted the word several times and fox news personalities have pushed similar language on the channel channel of course correlation does not equal causation. There's no evidence so far that the shooter was directly influenced by president trump but a lot of people are pointing pointing to this language and saying this kind of thing needs to stop so what's the skin on a global level. The world is watching as a u._s. Figures out how to handle mass shootings and white supremacy then his waylon and uruguay have actually issued travel travel advisories to their citizens warning about traveling to the u._s. Where there's violence and hate crimes. Legislation has been put board. Congress hasn't been called back back from vacation yet to talk about it. President trump is traveling to both dayton and el paso tomorrow to meet with victims families and burst responders. The mayor of el paso says he's welcoming the president but that he's been fielding emails and phone calls from angry passan's saying they don't want him to come and the mayor of dayton ohio told reporters today that trump's rhetoric has been painful for many in the community and that if people aren't happy about trump coming they should stand up and say so and if you caught a glimpse at the stock market monday you probably noticed something was up. The dow dropped about three percent. Its biggest loss of the year and turns out we we can point to a big reason why you ready. The chinese government lowered the value of its currency which may be confusing because the the u._s. Government can't exactly do that so here's what you need to know. I remember that currencies always have value compared to other currencies going on vacation to say europe may cost you more or less depending on where the u._s. Dollar stands compared to the euro at that precise moment in time that changes based on the market value of the u._s. Dollar how much people believe it's worth but the chinese currency the renminbi aka the u._n. And is different. It's value is pretty much set by the chinese government. Essentially china decides its own exchange rate and that affects the u._s. On monday china weakened the value of its currency to an eleven year low compared to the u._s. dollar. That's been a sore subject for american politicians for ages. They don't like like that china. Has this extra economic tool that we don't have if you've ever heard politicians calling china a currency manipulator. That's what they're talking about. In fact the u._s. took things a step further this week on monday. The treasury department officially labelled china a currency not manipulated seeing it was messing with the value of its currency to get a competitive advantage in international trade the u._s. says it's going to complain to the i._m._f. The international monetary fund about china's unfair behaviour so why would china do this. The trump administration says says china is retaliating against the u._s. Because of the ongoing u. s. china trade war. Yeah that's still going on since last year. China and the u._s. have been hitting each other's goods with tariffs or taxes. President trump threaten more tariffs against chinese products just last week that makes it more expensive for u._s. Companies needs to import chinese goods and instead of responding with tariffs on the u._s. China's offsetting those extra costs by lowering its currency and thereby making the chinese goods themselves cheaper that keeps you as companies and consumers happy to but there's a downside to doing this. When you're currency is worthless. You need more more of it to buy things or in this case to pay off debt. China has around two trillion dollars in foreign debt and it's going to need a lot more renminbi to pay. Hey off those bills. The skin has more on the china and u._s. Trade war and how it could affect your wallet at the skin dot com slash money and we want to end the show with the word about author toni morrison who passed away last night at the age of eighty eight. She was an icon of american literature and one of the preeminent voices on the black experience experience in america morrison wrote eleven novels. She also wrote children's books plays and an opera. She won the pulitzer prize for her nineteen. Eighty-seven bestselling book beloved that book became a movie starring oprah winfrey in nineteen ninety-three. She became the first african american woman woman to win the nobel prize for literature or any nobel prize in two thousand twelve. She was awarded the presidential medal of freedom by president barack obama the the high civilian honor and the u._s. Toni morrison's pros brings us that kind of moral emotional intensity that few writers ever attempt morrison wasn't just a writer who moved readers. She also inspired other writers. She was an editor at random house starting in the sixties and she continued to push people to find their own voice like in her two thousand and bore commencement address to grads at wellesley college. It's been called. One of the best commencement speeches it all time. Nobody has the exact memory that you have. What is now known is not all paul what you are capable of knowing. You are your own stories. If you want to know more about morrison a documentary about her life. Life was just released this summer. It's called tony morrison the pieces i am and that's all for skim this thanks for listening and make sure you subscribe and leave a review for more skim you can check out our premium content by downloading in our app or get our free morning newsletter by subscribing at the skin dot com. It's everything you need to know to start your day right in your inbox.

president china trump toni morrison u._s. dayton el paso texas ohio el paso texas u. s. china agassi chinese government nobel prize paso pulitzer prize europe oprah winfrey dan patrick white house
Daisy Ridley Goes Back To Her Roots For 'Ophelia'

The Frame

25:32 min | 1 year ago

Daisy Ridley Goes Back To Her Roots For 'Ophelia'

"The. From the Mon broadcast center at KPCC. This is the frame. I'm John horn on today's show after being dropped by Netflix the series. One day at a time. Lives to see another day, then from Star Wars to a reimagining of. Shakespeare's. Hamlet daisy Ridley find similar strength in very different roles. I see between Ryan a failure because I think that pods set by them, regardless of the house, I'd precious. They have so in that commonality and a new documentary goes inside the life of novelist Toni Morrison all that coming up on the frame. One day at a time the Latin x centered remake of Norman Lear nineteen seventies TV show of the same name is back for another season. Netflix canceled the series back in March. But yesterday pop TV CBS owned cable network. Announce that will pick up the show for a fourth season. Lesley Goldberg is the west coast, TV editor at the Hollywood reporter, and she joined me talk about the deal and told me, why Netflix canceled a series to begin with Netflix. Like many of the other streamers and the upcoming ones will not and do not, and will not ever release exact viewership data. So it's very hard to measure shows or movies success. But, you know, we'll look, I interviewed Netflix, head of original Cindy Holland back in April. And one of the things that she said was that didn't make economic sense to bring back one day to time for a fourth season part of what how networks does make its decisions is. They look at how much they're spending on a show and how many new subscribers. It's bringing, which of course, we don't really know either way. I mean that's looks reports. It's quarterly subscriber gains and losses. But you have no idea, how much of that is tributed to their decision to renew, or cancel the new show. But with their with the billions of dollars that they're spending on original programming every year. It's the, the decisions that they're forced to make our will fourth season of show like a of a show. One day time bring in new subscribers. Or would we best be us using the millions that we're spending on that show to do a new show that could bring in more, one company did feel the economics made sense, and that is pop TV so who is pop TV? And why did a show like this make as much sense to them as it didn't make to Netflix? Well, we should before we even talk about pop TV we should give credit to the producers of one day to time. And that's Sony Pictures television. The independent. Studio and they were successful able to save this show. This was their business dealing, and this is look this is ground. This is TV history. This is the first time that you're seeing a scripted original show that was picked up and aired originally on a streaming platform, moved to a linear network like pop TV pop TV originally known as the TV guide network. It used to be co owned by Lionsgate television and CBS about a year ago CBS wanna buying full control. So this is a niche, basic cable network, that is owned by CBS, and, you know, look, CBS, digital platform all access what really express a lot of interest in picking up one day at time, but because of the original clauses in Netflix contract it prohibited. Any other streaming platform aka any Netflix competitor from picking up this show within a few years, and nobody's gonna wanna wait multiple years to pick to revive a show that winds up. Being expensive. You have to re promote it people have lost interest. You know you you strike, while the iron is hot. And that's exactly what pop TV did as for why they picked it up. I spoke with pop TV president Brad Schwartz yesterday on Thursday, and one of the things that he mentioned is, this is a very, very small network. They have only a handful of originals shows what be it scripted and unscripted. That's largely network that is home to repeats of some big pop culture, syndicated shows, like Buffy the vampire slayer Dawson's creek the original Beverly Hills nine oh, two one. Oh, charmed. And the reason this was interesting to them is first and foremost. Everyone CBS from Brad Schwartz to the executives like Joe Iannello and David Nevins over at CBS creatively. Loved the show, and it made sense for pop because this isn't network that as I mentioned is very big on the stall. And they looked. They're sweet spot. Viewers are people who love stuff from the eighties nineties, look, no further than what their syndication, their syndicated content is ROY. Right. That's the sweet spot Dawson's creek. You don't get much more nineties, and that Buffy the same thing. And the fact that, that this what they picked up is actually a reboot of show, that, that many of its viewers already have an awareness of because of the original from forty years prior it really hit the sweet spot, so creatively. It's an IP. It's, it's intellectual property that it's audience already knows said that. It's, it's unprecedented for a show to go from a streaming service to a cable network. Does that mean it was legally difficult to unwind the deal at flex and get it on this new platform? So in terms of setting, you know, the legal precedent. This really was a business it move. So because Sony owns the rights to the show it become becomes there to figure out what they wanna do it. However, I will say that Netflix does own because they paid for and have a contract to keep those first three seasons. Netflix will remain the exclusive home streaming home to the first three seasons of one day at a time. But in the new deal Sony gets a whole lot of rights back from Netflix. Because of their pass on season four. So that means that Sony will now be able to sell the show internationally which it never did with Netflix because Netflix is in many international markets and Sony. Also in a couple of years we'll have a streaming library starting with season four. And if the show goes five six seven through ten like producer, Mike, Royce told me he wants it to they're going to have a streaming library to sell. So, you know, in APR twister fate one thing that could happen later down the line is Sony could say, hey, we've got you know, seven more seasons of this show net. Flicks, do you want buy the library to go with the first three? And even if the one day at a time fan base didn't have a lot to do with coming back on pop TV are they at least happy now that it is coming back overjoyed? I mean, it's, it's like Christmas in June. This is this is a deal. It's never been like I said, it's never been done. A streaming show has never moved off of that to find another home. Usually, it's the other way around where Netflix has been heralded as, as the save our. Show champion because they've revived so many other shows in recent memory. I mean designated survivor was canceled at ABC and moved to net flix, FOX cancel Lucifer, and Netflix picked it up. I mean, there's so many shows that Netflix has done that with. And now this is the very first time. Netflix said, nah, no will pass and left it to the studio to find a new home for it Goldberg is a west coast TV editor with the Hollywood reporter. She is the author of the article one day at a time inside the comedies historic comeback Leslie, thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having me, John. Coming up on the frame, classically trained actress, daisy, Ridley goes back to her roots. For a feel young. Welcome back to the frame. I'm John horn. Daisy release shot into stardom when cast is the lightsaber wielding Ray in Star Wars Episode seven the force awakens, readily. We'll be back in another Star Wars movie in December, but she's also been looking for smaller media roles to play when she's not in a galaxy far far away. One of those projects of feel. Yup. Is out today based on the novel by Lisa Klein affiliate is an alternate look at the story of hamlet. It features dynamic strong-willed feel you at center. A big departure from the meek and secondary. Character written by Shakespeare? When I spoke with Ridley, she told me how she portrayed. Feely a- as empowered, even when challenged by her place in society that thing, I found, like in thinking about the character is people can make statements on a smaller scale. I remember talking to someone and we took him by experiences and how. Gray is that people can be open and somebody said somebody who's had a terrible person over things of they said, I don't want to talk about my experiences like I've lift them, and that person in now, way, lives, their life, making small statements within that own suckle within the framework. It's not such a loud bellowing of a statement. So I think it's important to see characters who would just doing the right thing, sometimes full themselves, like affiliate isn't telling people that she's going against the court. She isn't telling people that they're wrong that she doesn't agree. She just does her own thing. She plus her own escape. She makes the right choice for her and ultimately a trial. I see more of heaven, and how the most people. And I think that's power and small statements of moral consciousness, dialers food and followed my heart and spoke, my mind. And it is high time. I should tell you my story. Myself. I think it's also true that with certain plays, I've put hamlet, I'd certainly put a fellow in that category that plays that are written four hundred years ago, actually take on new meaning in, in the contemporary world, and I think feel ios point, and what feels really topical is that she is not as much bothered by betrayal, s she is by what I'll call toxic masculinity, that there are certain things that really, really bother her that feel incredibly contemporary. Yeah. And I think the, the thing I found an IOT you a member during Sima George because I found it very moving is Hus hang from story missed and without. Really? It's that of like how then in that has the choice to do what he promised. Swore vengeance. Swat. Love me be mine. I, I fought on you wouldn't be difficult for him to put down the suit and say, you know, I'm just not going to like he fills some sort of obligation, whether that's to himself with us to the people that have pushed him down as that really is the thing that she doesn't wait around full. And I found that very moving 'cause she doesn't say to how I'm going away like if he chose to see what she was saying to him. He would see that. She sang a by but ultimately, it's not HUD job to get through his emotional almo-. So she takes off. I do think there's massive strengthen that she just isn't going to white for someone to, to do the right thing. She's going to do the right thing. A fuel your is independent she's strong. She's not truly satisfied with taking a back seat. Those feel like qualities that are shared by other characters you've played. And I wonder if that's something that you gravitate toward, or is important to you, or do you even see much commonality in the roles that you choose? I think I see commonality between Ryan affiliate because I think that pods are set by them, regardless of the outside precious. They have you fill. Kind of. I want so in this commonality and I and someone said something about Gertrude being like she's mixed up. So she's more interesting. And I just think it can be interesting to be good. It can be interesting to be solid in your opinions, and that is just as interesting. And I would say, yeah, that both doing the right thing at the time for themselves, but also going forward full for other people flay we're talking with daisy, Ridley about her new movie of feel Yelm, when you have a movie as successful as a Star Wars movie that obviously, I would think open some doors in terms of what you are offered or what you might be able to do. But as it also limiting in that people might only see you in a certain kind of role is there an upside and a downside to having a part as well received as Ray the thing I found, I had a meeting with a couple of produces recently a night did say because there are things that have popped. That people are doing than and I'm like, oh, I never even read thought script on I did say to these to take people always like, is it that people don't think I can do the job or like is it because I seem unavailable. And their thing was that I seem on valuable, I guess, because I did this big as a lot of people call it like an American thing. The one thing that I'm looking to do is like a small English thing. I think people would assume that I only want to do things in that vein where I very much want to do you know, a feeling of tiny in comparison on, it's fantastic. So it it's not thing. It's the I think some people assume the I wouldn't want to or a seem I'd be busy. So, yeah, I'm looking to mooning Bush thing. But otherwise, I think only post two things I got to plan. Awesome. Character. I had the most amazing time on. Yeah. It's helpful going forward with a paternity and that brings up. Another question that there is certainly something that you take away from working on a big project like. Star Wars or any other movie about acting. And I'm wondering they're not really equivalent classes or instruction on being famous at wondering if you had some advice along the way that was as important as vice you might have received about acting or how to behave on a set that has helped you deal with celebrity. I think the main thing rarely I met 'em Watson for a drink just off. I did stop because someone who to install with our law. And we went to like a restaurant in Covent Garden. And it was pretty Chou and soup is prized because of a say she's like mega famous, and I had essentially the whole time I was doing press people get going Alaskan change. That's can change and that I think was a big thing because I travel on the tube, I travel on the bus is what you make of I don't think anyone has expressly said that, but you do realize over time that if you wanna live a quiet life, which I. Do it is possible. But that has taken from each fill pretty comfortable. I also think, nothing of, you know, like early twenties. You don't always felt comfortable so now I feel more comfortable it's easier to hold myself more comfortably in those situations. So I think it's an age thing. I just think you just can't do it, it takes time to figure out, but you really can. And I think the mole you blow things up other people around you both things the most stressful. It's going to be. So the great thing is to just act like it's normal become normal rhetorical lot on this show about representation at why it matters. And when I think about a feel yer or Ray and Star Wars, one of the things that I think is really important. Is that if you're a young boy growing up in the seventies and eighties, and you saw Luke Skywalker? You can imagine yourself as Judd, I, but if you're a young, girl, you didn't quite have that kind of role model and I'm wondering if you think it is important, or if you almost feel some sort of obligation to make sure. Sure that younger people can look at a character like Ray or a feel ya and say, I like who that person is even if I don't want to become an actor. It's important for me to see somebody who looks like me reflected on screen doing the kinds of things. I wanna do. Yes, I absolutely think it's important when we wrapped stall was this time Joan Boyega did a speech and basically said, JJ's doing all of people talking about, and he really is like within the Saul was cost. This time is the most beautifully diva's cost has been it was amazing, the set like people crew wise. It's amazing. Even things like the fact that Ray was trousers battles. She just she needs to trousers issue as trials. And I think somebody came up to me and said, oh, my son wants to run like, right. And it seems such a tiny thing. But for little boy to be saying it is also really big on, like she's running, and she's really running like on an advice. Show for her life, wherever that might be, I absolutely think that's really important. Underestimate sky will and Ben solo and me. It will be down. And that's one thing I did not see was going into this is an awesome role. I had an awesome time. And then the action from people, especially with children, and people that have said, if there will a character like this growing up, how amazing it would be. I don't take lightly. I feel so lucky. The I've been able to play that role. So you have a feel you're this little our other art movies Star Wars. And what's next after that chaos Wilken in the next year? People will the sing my face out, I believe cows, Woking coming out sometime next year, which is really cool to 'cause it's, you know, it's a space film, and technically, it's a big film. But the story is praise imple- like Viollis moral lesson is a choice between two things, and it was awesome to play that thing of a personal choice that. Is going to affect all the people, which have away. She goes, it's going to affect people in a positive or negative way, I feel really lucky actually, especially with these three roles. The I've got to play characters Seif. Now, does he think so much for coming on the show? Thank you. Thanks so much. Daisy Ridley stars in Felim. It's in select theaters starting today, coming up on the frame, novelist Toni Morrison is the subject of a new documentary. Novelist Toni Morrison has won a Pulitzer prize a Nobel prize for literature, and she was awarded the presidential medal of freedom in the new documentary. Tony Morrison the pieces. I am we learn about the woman behind the word to see how she got to this distinguished place in American culture. It's directed by photographer and filmmaker Timothy greenfield Sanders film critic beyond July takes a look at the documentary Toni Morrison's novels were always on my mother's bookshelves growing up, but until I saw the new documentary Tony Morrison the pieces. I am. I didn't know much about the woman who wrote them, even when I wrote the Bill Nye, I was really writing a book. I wanted to be hadn't seen broken with black girls with sense. Eight. I wanted to be to book that had no codes. No little notes explaining things to people. And I had a major major question in my mind that time, which was, how does a child? Learn south loathing sti- is the story of Pakoa breed left. A black girl who thinks having blue eyes will save her from the torment if daily life, it was Morrison's first published novel. And it's the kind of serious and unflinching work that made it surprising for me to see how funny and carefree Morrison is in the movie like in this clip where she's talking about her college days at Howard University. It's the nineteen fifties when I got to how. I was loose. I just loved it. I'm sure would be. But regret. She's got an amazing sense of humor. Fair jasmine Griffin is to Toni Morrison scholar. She is one of the most down to earth people. I know and yet, you know, she's also genuinely genius Griffin heads. The African American and African diaspora studies department at Columbia University. Griffin is interviewed in the film, but she also happens to be one of my favorite professors from when I was in college at the university of Pennsylvania. So after seeing the documentary, I called her up the brilliance that we see on the page is always operating, and that those things aren't separate, you know, that, that they exist, all in that one person that you get that full range of who she is. It's not the Tony Morrison get super personal in the film. She really doesn't actually she keeps the focus on her public professional life, but director Timothy greenfield Sanders still manages to maintain a sense of intimate storytelling. He matches the beat. Of Morrison's life with a stunning array of visual art, and he wisely makes Morrison the narrator of her own story. She's a friend of mine. Together, matt. The pieces. Should have them and give them back to me. And all the right order. When you get a woman who is a friend of. And while the film is an unapologetic celebration of Morrison. It also lets us know that her work wasn't always well received. When you read earlier reviews of Tony's work is early. Sympathetic liberal reviewers, and I remember one of them about SLA and the reviewer says she's got a great talent one day. She won't limit it to only writing about black people. Like, really, it's limiting for her to write about black before, like no one says that when an Irish writer writes about Irish people. You know, it's only limiting when you write about black people. And when she published her novel beloved in nineteen eighty seven almost fifty prominent black writers, including Alice Walker, and my Angelou called out the literary establishment for not giving Morris in her do here's a clip of journalists asking Morris in about that in the film. What is your response because, now you're sort of caught up in the middle of all of this? It's easily the most significant thing that has ever happened to me in my writing life. I right out of the culture as everyone does for it through it and in it. So a portion of that culture said to me. Amen. But even after Tony Morrison won the Nobel prize for literature in nineteen Ninety-three their critiques didn't end the documentary sites. Critics who said beloved is a fraud and that the award was an act of political correctness. I looked up the source of these quotes and to my surprise they came from black men, cultural critic Stanley crouch and novelist. Charles Johnson respectively. Those critiques said more about the people who made them than they said about Morrison's work because there is no question in our minds about the literary importance in sophistication of her work, and, you know, these came from talented writers themselves, but it really did lend itself to turn a sort of Linz on them and say, why, why do you need to do this going into the film? I knew that director, Timothy. Greenfield Sanders was a longtime friend of Morrison's, but he's also white man. And it seems to me that the director. Clearly understood he needed black women on his team to properly. Tell Morrison story like the visual artists McLean. Thomas. She made an inventive custom collage from pictures of Morrison for the film's opening credits. And greenfield Sanders also brought on producer, Sandra. Guzman to conduct the interviews and composer, Catherine Bostick wrote and performed an original song for the film. To me. Tutti jill. So. After watching the film. What stays with you is Morrison's undeniable presents, and of course, her intellectual brilliance lingers to, but it's precisely those pieces being gathered together. But let's the film hits, Mark. It's what makes you see that Morrison herself is that friend of my mind that she writes about she's that friend for all of us for the frame, I'm beyond July. Not man came Toni Morrison, the pieces I am is in selected now and that's it for the week. The frame is produced by Oscar. Garza Darby Maloney, Monica bushman, Jonathan Schiff lit, and Julia Paskhin with help this week from its e continue our news clerk is Andrea Gutierrez. And our intern as Paul Ratliff, Valentina Rivera is the show's engineer and our opening theme music is by Taylor mcferrin. I'm John horn. Check out the frame weekend on Saturday afternoon at two, we're back here on Monday from the Mon broadcast center have a great weekend. These.

Toni Morrison Netflix Timothy greenfield Sanders John horn CBS producer Shakespeare Ryan daisy Ridley Norman Lear Ray Lesley Goldberg director reporter Sony Pictures Hollywood Ridley editor
Final Word: Toni Morrison

Words Matter

04:18 min | 1 year ago

Final Word: Toni Morrison

"Welcome to words matter with katie barlow and joe lockhart last week we lost one of the most influential and celebrated novelists in american literary history tony morrison a novelist essayist. They ask 'em princeton. Professor morrison wrote nine major novels all of which earned extensive critical acclaim as oprah winfrey said after her passing last week she was a magician with language who understood the power of words she used them to royal us to wake us us to educate us and help us grapple with our deepest wounds and try to comprehend them a woman who certainly understood that words matter among dozens of other awards and achievements she won both a pulitzer prize and american book award in nineteen eighty eight for her novel beloved and in nineteen ninety-three tony morrison became the first black woman of any nationality to win a nobel prize the citation for her award in literature declared declared morrison to be an author who in novels characterized by visionary force and poetic import gives life to an essential aspect of american can reality in two thousand twelve tony morrison was awarded the presidential medal of freedom by president barack obama and during her commencement address at rutgers university in two thousand eleven tony morrison encouraged graduates to seek a meaningful life something she herself had certainly achieved so so this week we give american treasure toni morrison the final word i have often wish that jefferson had had not used that phrase the pursuit of happiness as the third right although although i understand and the first draft was life liberty and the pursuit of property of course i would have been one of those properties one had the right to pursue so i suppose happiness is is an epochal improvement over a life devoted to the acquisition of land acquisition -sition of resources acquisition of slaves still i would rather he had written life liberty and the pursuit of meaningfulness or integrity or truth. I know that happiness has been the real if covert goal of your labors here i know that it informs your choice of companions the profession you will enter but i urge you. Please don't settle for happiness. It's that's not good enough. Of course you deserve it but at that's all you have in mind happiness. I want to suggest to you that personal success devoid of meaningfulness free three of a steady commitment to social justice. That's more than a baron life. It's a trivial one.

Professor morrison toni morrison oprah winfrey american literary history barack obama pulitzer prize nobel prize katie barlow joe lockhart princeton rutgers university president jefferson
Versuz Battles and more

Inside the Cave

56:09 min | 8 months ago

Versuz Battles and more

"Talk provoking ignorance since twenty fifteen. You do say you want to be in. You are still trying to get this thing. Keeps on going mean slack to? Cbs Left dynamic dual. All you need man need to step that Axel Haig have just the two of us just to to So we're GONNA try to put together a show. Theo Gonese play like quarantine jeopardy such quarantine about over with people. Get back to work. I'll be I think it's too early. Wants the country to open. So you you've worked for a big company more than likely you embiid with the president. He needs them numbers of look. Good for November no matter who lives in our brisk that's true that is true as he does the same to us. You is now. He's now he's got problems with his. Cdc is telling you it's too early on a rush names in but he's Russian problems with his He had problems with his intelligence criticized. Always put them down all this kind of stuff and then you know. It's a wonder how does shouldn't have happy. You know people like just China China China. Blame Him on China will okay. Maybe care blaming China but we got intelligence. United States got intelligence. We got the best in the world when you have a leader constantly you know. Couldn't you earn your own people? Yeah we probably do drop the ball on so this is all on him and no he trying to rush this thing because he needs his numbers and look good for November. And I'm GonNa tell you once once November if he do get reelected he don't give a fuck with apps because now the next person prob- The If Biden gets elected is going to be all on trump. But you know if he is. He gets reelected milk being. You don't care off. He yeah he brought he won't care shrill fucked up he's he's a straight of narcissism and some people know some people still haven't gotten unemployment yet man was stimulus checks. I should say either way ambled. You know other countries going through the same thing we're going through countries of paying out. You are called stimulus check. Payments are way more than Americans are. Americans are my dignity checks per month right and most of those countries have infected and going through this before us before on the United States. Hickel's you go old. Usa Go railway glue twelve hundred dollars and that's not to everybody to hundred dollars a little bit more per child An ESCO last you ten weeks if you will one or two persons that got a check. The first around some people haven't even gotten thirty thirty. Six million people unemployed early six fucking million people when you news angle bed too long. They are right now is. Hey what's up man? I'm good I out of a group is that I just need you. I need to do to achieve matt all to give thoughts on the on the last dance episode nine team. Yeah I got. I got a bigger question for y'all question. We were calling about say twenty minutes into it. We technically we only three minutes into it. I just started the time so I listen. Let me ask Shaw Ditch. I really like the last dance or just like reliving those moments ooh Sad. Y You doin. 'cause I pulled out ticket stubs join the words he's interested. The better question is said if we hit an NBA season and it came out in June right after the NBA finals. Would it would. It have meant much as it did now coming out when we don't we else to watch what we figure that's worth questions with their head in autosound ratings in that question. I better question. I don't think so I don't think it out. I mean because everybody because we hit nothing to watch. But I'm saying I'm asking. What part of did you enjoy? Did you enjoy the documentary? 'cause you thought it was well done joy reliving moments that you remember as a adolescents the height and hear almost it was something. But I didn't I didn't know of and remember so that'll be longer. I think they skipped out on a lot of shit that I did remember. I think Toni Kukoc thereby top. Mojo'S TONI. Kukoc got fucked. It was documented. Now this has been ninety six one thing but this is the ninety. Eight and coach you know was a big part of that ninety eighteen. Man Hell you can look at the NBA two K. ratings on the Niger. Abel's Shit No. You got the second highest rate on the team. So let's you know he fucked him because this is this is one of the one of the things that I I kinda wrestle with was. It's the last dance with a ninety eight balls but we we just everybody pretty much kept referring to it as the Jordan which is Kinda right because he had full control over it. Was this the last dance? Ninety eight bullets but one man got full control which I do understand because this is Jordan. It ain't like we talk about my Williams. I get that part but it wouldn't. It wouldn't last last dance ninety eight. Who is just said? The LAST DANCE. The last dance was at reference to the ninety four. So calm on the arms play. He could attain anything. He he could tell my land Michael Jordan's last season. So what was it? The doctor was it. The bull was he owned on a soon as it was his dock. It he but the was he he he didn't he owned auto foots. He had the final say over the foot. Not Now I remember reading in the beginning. Join Great Access to TV crew to follow them around all easy. Kobe minded the same thing when he found out he was last. Seen like like. You noticed as you noticed like auto reporters would be outside the locker room. This was the only camera crude i. I know that part but this this whole idea for all of this was Adam. Still Michael Thompson was Klay Thompson. Klay Thompson dead now Michael Thompson. This was his name Mike Tyson. I forgot but this is uncle. And Adam silver is the one who pushed it in ninety eight. But but yo- eight remember was the second in command. He was the Commissioner Lieutenant Commission. Yeah but remember your mental. Every time we win a championship Disneyland. But but then the video cassette pat will come out relive the bullshit so she probably was thinking something along those lines but he was like. Let's make it. Let's make it for the anniversary of the twenty fifth anniversary. Shit Bitch so he was thinking down the line he gobbled any. It was a good gobble and ask you a question. I think I. I think I enjoyed the documentary. It was a really document And I'll have any children but I could imagine what it was like butch on pinterest watching what they would be sports plan children. Lula just key is not in the sports. You know we don't have. I don't have those type of doubts about The diong Jackie Robinson Journal White fans dead. This this was. This is going to be around while I presume to keep it. That law goes so Yang thirsty nickel him they should just ninety eight Joe they got bought. This shit got like a whole fucker. Well so she is out three years in two thousand one he picked up. I mean time is every he could've put it outright this hall of fame when he planned out in the summer eighteen. Anyway I mean the some US give me somewhat twenty twenty anyway just got pushed up because of the loan. If you re remember originally they said it will come out January twenty twenty and then he changed it to the summer. Twenty twenty which is to say summer twenty twenty and then they got Than I said June. They said today's Joan which corresponded with the last reason. Why could find asked reason why I believe in time travel? Bro is too much shit. Come on Man. Come on man does take about like this. This mud. Originally the original plan was for the come out and it wasn't going January twenty twenty. Imagine if it would came on January twenty twenty eight in Kobe Dayak but somehow he ended up chain they end up changing it for the commandment Samba and then all of a sudden. Come on come on man. This is absolutely I believe in time travel. I believe Senator and it wasn't going. It wasn't going to be five weeks. It was going to be five days to two episodes a day. Course a final for their take he was on. I was original dates. Were ever we go to finally start and end date and the gap in between the final over rest day or whatever traveled in was like it was set up like that they played a game. Play a game up plaguing Jilin Duck but man I. I enjoyed every time it went off man outside. Why officer dead made a match and I just. I just keep thinking about it when when applied coach like I really wonder what I got no him fifth and I like game. Seven against the paces was all coach. I remember like it was yesterday. I remember watching a game thing. They can dine over in the third quarter. Cuco came and saved the day and then he talked about the threes. I'm like Cuco fucking day and then really talk about. I'm remember Dave move. Toni Kukoc should've started lineup. And put Robin to the bench. They didn't even touch like a wonder why you know this was like during the finals. And Roy Eleven only got so much shit now man. That's why I I I know what you I feel to San with them our. That's why I really wish they would it into like this each show hour and a half one show a week hour and a half in thirty minutes after show talking about big. Wouldn't even our long because it. Oughta commercials right so they released. It should have been hour and a half. I think that's post Kamal. Abc is weaker summertime. This weekend they plan all day. Abc's on your fucking yeah they should. That's based liquid ones. The then it is said why he didn't such a mean. He went all the way back in the day why he didn't talk on Johnny Ricker. You don't saying like would you say on comedy? Moldy brought buck brought Bob Costantini. Someone who used to work for wgn today. Johnny Ray Kirk called all Jordan's nine Johnny Way Occurs Data exactly exactly mobile reasoned Jeff. Johnny recur was the Voice Behind. -joyed well what was going to be the point. Johnny Ray Curb Kostas at least lapse of talk about it. They brought up his roots or whatever reason in Wgn but most of his relevant comments was based on his NBC. Yes yeah I thought I would have thought they would've mentioned but I feel you on that. But what what would you say? That's my thing like you're going to bring that up. Would've been appoint what would have been the relic. All Jordan's greatest moments was was brought to us by John. Greg what was the other Guy Remember put the powder in their face air right right married what detail and everything else. I mean they might take your interview cost. Is He alive? Broker ain't ninety current home. You WanNa live David Stern. When he was interviewed grow about what they wanted to talk about. I I just I just WanNa know what is. That's the point of the documentary them having total control by do documentary on. Cb some you some spots. If I'm in charge certain wonder what is good Was Neil faulk was it was it. Wayne Larry now I we that sound the name sound food will. It's I gotta look at all the audibles moments was brought to us by you know but I thought it was address that I hate talking about. I just really wanted to why he fucked Sony Cuco. That's really want it's mark is on the media's bringing shit up I mean they really fucked him made seem like Jordan at the beginning to seek head Nobod- Toni Kukoc now cost. Still coming off the bench bro. leaving got he was injured. Tony was in the star. Lana only one dollars Tony. I don't think people really w watch game seven Komo now you talk in one game one game a singular stats of what he did in the ninety. Scotty been what Games Avenue. I'll talk about in the ninety eight playoffs. Tony was like the second leading score. That's why Scott Berea was such a big deal. Picking one putting up no score number two. He was faciliates. Pursue Scott was bad. His come on more point on talking about Scott Real. Toni Kukoc was the one score was was one scorn for Jordan and Jordan joined with. Didn't handle great shooting seasonal at all. Here's a better question. Bill Nichols better quest. Everybody thinks that they would. They would have for Peter. I think the booze would afford pete it but I don't think it would have been the ninety nine season. I mean it could but I you know what season I noted for sure they would have forbidden and probably a better season in the seventy two T in ninety three ninety four season Jordan would came back to that theme Jordan didn't Bj Horace Grant Antonio Coach Azarov. That team would load it. Or the Ron Harper. Come when when the Second? I think he came the. Yeah 'cause Pete Myers was the first to guard okay but still the team was load ahead. John Paxson. Vj An Steve Kerr flow of saying that team. I think they would`ve. They would've beat the fuck out of the rockets like Oh yeah. The Knicks took him to game. Seven bull was damn near. Begin Knicks without Jorde really. Did you house think they would be out? I think they. I think that season that ninety three ninety four season everybody would can't team would have been the same plus Jordan Sh. I don't know about the ninety nine seats because Tim Duncan and David Robinson List Jerry. Krause guy real creative on how you stopped it in hindsight you can say what you say. All right. Y'All know mad. They only got to play fifty games and starting in February. What you would do with Tim? Duncan Day rumps this clean against their and they about Air Robin with on bulletin right. They're not used to having that much. Rest need your who. That would have been a bad thing. Rob True so to Bell Rob. If he would've came he would have been a woman novel right. That's today lobster lobster cooking is needed to really a gray different court. Ec How tight faulkner. Today were documentary say chassis billups. They shot as it join. Lotto Hall of famers from e Brock. Lebron said Join Cup a lot of people from hall of fame. But you didn't get reign why not to meet with ghouls. Oh never mind people fast when they were they when nobody getting past what nobody kidding past. He couples people from eating. And you know what I WanNa know in this going on. Do the Bulls Dope. Everybody talks about Lebron James Dry. What he went to the finals nine years straight or some shit at eight years straight Finals eight years straight of whatever he wants by all the as big give. I WanNa know why talk about the fact that Kobe Bryant went to the finals. Seven out of ten years in one I know by talking about the whole thousand man went to the finals seven times in one five. They WanNa talk about this man to the finals. Eight Times winning three nine times he went eight. He went eight straight losing record. Doing y'all multiple carry most percents carries. Yeah he fucking the but Jordan Aman Jordan a goal. We know that me ask you this. So final question on this is scant beats slack. Was it a Jordan? Donohoe boils down. Join Donald Wars clearly Jordan documental. Jeffrey Jordan Duck Fisa Jordan. They told stories on his best friend. Is White do that? The old man from the from the is. He helped out gus or whatever. His name is Ex-police Dame ain't talk to his wife we doin' Geordie Dong not bullish stock Moser. Yup Lebron's kid there but you know the kids his kids to the last episode Hamas can say about Johnny turning his job. We want a documentary documentary on life. You've gotTa Talk Jay so so so hurt on hold on initiative of jealous. I WANNA do this. We talking about going to talk about his prime years his life Joel. A to four hundred million dollars from me talk and there we go there. We sail we go now. I would listen. It's an interview on another show and our head to keep head joins three older song children on and top came up. Said and we'll we'll sail was out as while you right. I could do a timeless documentary with just her. What was really going on? 'cause I found out you choose was from the south side of Chicago kidding. Want to know She wanted us to our roots and everything so we will. We will be going to the south side constantly. Hang out what I could chew. Put Us we ride to the south side Nigga sample and all the time she was from the low but now we we would be out south a lot. They said we will be on the south side a lot but the the keys agreed on being the life. Juanita jewel. Thank you said. A whole nother documentary at a Shinto was going on just with them Dylan. Being wife joy being mother of his children. Why because a lot of me? If you WANNA dig real deep into this. What kind of like. What kind of father was my husband was like he was pretty competitive? And when you when you decorative you got tired of raisin so about mass Britain it wanted onto. The kids told the story. They said they played. It will play football. What they did was huge so they'd be an available plan. Football he on his knees and nuclear for blockhouse augury children against you man so competitive jeon tackle Marcus into his arm. Nice thing table at aw gave him stitches practice. He I shoot like blows everywhere told story said Jillian was just that competitive eating. What is key is now playing fast. He didn't want someone score. Touchdowns will be tackled. Roman across. See BEFORE YOU GO. I gotta ask you this about this about these battles. Read these verses battles okay. Who Realistically who could do we could do. Versus Against Jay Z. Living right realistically I will say honestly. It's a twenty Johnson tests on the feast. We intend songs a peace. Dan Mix might kick now then the not. I'm GonNa tell you why I'm GonNa tell you what we'll tell you. Why twenty he can't do it. We keep it tight. He he will eat the beat them for beat them by one and this is the only reason. I it's because I'm Jaeger. But this only reason got AmCham's white people love songs by people light rough riders aunt. Michele like that might white folks bucket. What Hell is he? Got a someone Maryland. Massive even got a song with Emma. Nil asked was on consolidate. That's thought you make but yeah but Eminem Eminem it is the pennzoil how people rate in the songs 'cause Eminem the songs. Obviously he wanted the biggest seven but do he got like certified hits. The chew would WanNa hear again. You know what I'm saying. Okay I think we song you brought up a point with mixed that I wouldn't even take out the last person I got. You say I was thinking you might say snoop just because there's that's Jay z's level as far as like a mega superstar as far as Hinson longevity and catalog yes catalogue if Catalog Battle. Snoop this probably going to beat anybody even J. It's chains like think about. Because they couldn't they doing songs that people just have featured all why Nigga put on deep cover got J. Janet he got Jerry. Higa a number of g thing he got. You know what I'm saying. See I think that'd be the better battles new person? Yeah because they jay incredible song incredible catalogs but let me say to a mass audience. If he could he play off. How many did he playoff five three? We fuck logging three. But how many certified banks went on before you go get stuff or who could knows. We'll I don't know I don't know broke. He could hit non-stars his damn to be pretty nice. That would be nice ready right. You rigged the mixture us but another at school Kisco. I don't pick nobody else from the east coast Our say at our Q. Is Is is you see. Dasell ship then is not says said. He wanted to see ice. Cube verse Ila. That's good afternoon a going to arm beside I've been trying to think I was an astronaut. Were you thinking nobody? I WANNA see Toni. Braxton somebody but I just can't think Ooh it's hard. It's hard to find people with twenty good songs. This like in the middle even saying I'm trying to think we can totally tiny toni. Braxton versus a lear. What the Lebron from someone who released installing brex goal against Tony Brax. Let me ask me ask you this now. This I'm picking to people with a hit catalog mariah carey versus miss two different two different thousand. Two women with a lot of hits. Actually I think unless I'm really see record versus Toni. Braxton Harry White Ma'am Man. Toni Braxton log also on set some monk Mariah got too many mariah history with hits. Go back too far. That's what about Tony? Brexit versus to me. Now that she can not to me and got no music. I Schengen Online. Twenty Braxton Toni Braxton got just enough hits the be considered but not enough against other. Big Hippos isn't that Middle Ground Hotel. Anyone Laurie Hill versus how I don't know only got solo album in the Fujitsu about Laura Huber's knows at any bad. I say this that ain't bad. Because when Nour's length of his catalog he got enough songs to compete wit Lawrence Small Catalog would he? You gotta you gotTa think we'll use saying shit like this. You got to think I was these individuals. The biggest hits a how many big history and after that. How many album cut it? We really liked BAGEL. They gotta get be a Toni. Braxton versus my team who team have to write team redid anyway I got somebody from her era and I who nobody. I can't think Jay was out. You know what that's that's not. The scientist Janika careers is too long janitor for the I. Think the Handy Person Mariah Jan riot agenda Bruce beyond say you can go down epilepsy. Jennifer Ellison hang on his hill. Go beyond said we gotta go Mariah or or Janet Reno viansa Burson. Mary J I will pay to see that. That's that's hang on. That would be a good one. I think the onset will be scared what Mary J. got the lose and beyond say plan that pop shit or whatever and hitting with their souls. I only beyonce's but that but the problem is is the crown was the crowd on instagram. Social Media. Decide without see media drop the. Here's the thing here's the thing would say if you ain't got the crowd to dance. You just got monthly listening Mary. J. Gone qe ankle. This dance a million creek. We'll see but I mean I'm more joyless it. So Do you do a Toni? Braxton Brandy Brandy Verse Monica Source. When now he'll Brandy Brandy Brandy or Courses Toni? Braxton eight bad brady anyway. Better Randy will her? That's the perfect just amount of hit. O.`Neil name name beer. You named Five Brandy. Soft sitting up in my role. I WANNA be down remix Let me see I wanna be now. She got the on by his. The boy is mine with Monica Brandy. Gut Five he's proud of me. It's once you get past. The hits is the length of quality music. Once you get past the whole thing got five something. Nothing pacified songs. A Muslim you don't think so brandon. Do now Monica do like can think about it. Could you can Japan got baby? Baby baby shipping gossip healthy. No no no. No not that baby baby baby. That upper soft senior brandy got civil rights. Avoid Day I wanNA be down missing you have. Have you ever been out from under soundtracks right sitting up in Maroon use name? That's what I'm saying. That's the closest one. I'm trying I'm trying. Not Top of the world did though John May sit on top of where will may the Fernie friendly with is a woman escape for Steel Ninety S got waterfalls countless? What you gotTa do escape is w the Yup Yup. That's what I was thinking. He was from the diesel s escape. Be Escape As being about them. Germain artists though. They might only put out two three albums with them. Albums loaded muggy loaded. Snoop Snoop Person. I don't don't know the beats newest West. There's going to be real. Jay will come close it. It'll be neck and neck. I AIN'T GONNA lie. It'll be neck and neck but it's GONNA BE J. Somebody like Kayak I think. Jay Versus chi-yang probably view bill. Go that'd baby a mix. That was a good thing whole day trying to get his dog. My bad I think excluding could adjust. May maybe snow May. Maybe maybe that's a good one but I also think some ours just accept it just fucking exempt. Just don't know what the end versus Us Versus Chris. Brown will be will be coalition of be like a British Chris Brown versus Jason Drake with Lou. Wayne Genetic let's the get the versus battle drank versus you either. One of those words drake dominating the decade as you said and did decade before you know having avenue getting they kinda shared brow. What about what about Cameron Stop? Is it about these camera and fifty it? What about Vick Senate Jada? Now don't do that. Didn't kiss playing wouldn't for over. Who could go against etiquette? Who LEVERS CAN'T J seeking delegate man credits? They mastic about satellite. I wanted a nice voice. It he went using the full hook on his new album voices to singing on a new APP fifty it had be like Jada versus who who march April Agata would be sent. GotTa be like against like Cam something like that you you the different type boot like I would think it had to be Jada kids who could take us as another name. Scoffing worst Jaded Kiss Gauguin's graphic as worsens. Who right some people are just outgrow. Just they need will be the person who will be the run for face who out with face whether it'd be like face versus masterpiece. Assumption baby versus Mass Birmingham versus masterpiece. Everybody that would be that over now. Berman the versus like we not as much notice limit versus sure about all and we got who could face school again as goofy as Just had to be like on osage she intake Phase and on the keeps us after the aim and nobody year a a mill. Bios guts The history off on the and the way of no new brain stories on history at age. Let me go. Let me read Ebay you reading books recruiting Does less NECE- that is inside. K. Cast listens feedback. Hold ON ACTUALLY. Go to dust off west. Did you read the story? I sent you the lady Nada. You people thought we had like four hundred people assessment student review as you think forty five five hydroxy clerk. On as he doesn't know the day we were talking about me degrees man he saying like a little kid lines taking it on piece of each other people take dope man. Come on if you will man like you'll you'll take as a preventative moment. Taken about two weeks we can hire hitman then is mad talk reckless Need double down on that are not I read that. They look a fall off support. Forty-five excuse so they can go on. Tv through the maple since Ram got to the white friends. I know that like this guy's do yourself a favor. Do not listen to this man. Fuck around kill you so fuck around on folk rock this this should superbowl great said that the tables I take a by of a winner. People what analysts that on the analyzed people were telling the truth online wouldn't people that are people you got around you. What he's people that sitting in front of you and you tell you tell when they lie. Remember what I told you we. We use your voice often. Do I've heard from maybe last week. Maybe we can have. When were you take me about the? We get a lot of feedback because people warranty. They boost right here about you. Layers this issue also win over to be clearly to talk about so steep. Last time she respod For that so nokia hit more big than got three. We got three. Oh also got looks woman. Florida amid named Whale Skied Wall. They doing virtual visits for penitentiaries and Face time zone. Whatever laude do shape at all? She was on masturbation. Washy was video chatting with her wanting in prison Why redoing this her. Their child came into the background Out of a virtual. She ended up getting arrested and charged Matt. But you gotTa Guard Way to Trinity before. They arrested her off. Could both Yala will be one of their seats? Those another dish of a major in quarantine lady the lady caught fire department. Put Five five department. A girl print triggers with crotch in between my legs. See that she waiting to try to hear a lot of Fox. Five Fire Foot. She Kit can put out the fire. My KRATZ COURTNEY. Jaipur said people call me. You'll which while you looking for white you finish looking. Let me slide slider to the so till ladies fellas Taylor true during this team time. Al-anon quarantine shows again if you receive a have you received a text message communication from one of Your Excellency. Any said hey but some some some type of dialogue within the says I Mitch. How do you respond to that during these time is it? Is it friendly where you know? You're not win any isn't it. Is it a friendly? Hey I miss you miss you too is one of those like You need to be missing your wife or husband cut point were. Oh my parker. Come back out of takes listeners for one exit issued and Enduring Quarantine cool may we kick it on type? Shit when auditions okay. Good encourage positive. Worst a woman on hanging at one we get a text message from a guy who she had no attention would bumping into regardless pointing nine said Austin Creepy. One night said I mission your wife. Did you lay next to reunite experts coordination truth overhead as did a true What was your response? What does what is your smart. Everybody going go with some people out of work. No money no sex too much six to too much too many keys. Too much noise not It'll be they'll be like. I like no response punishment for Sunday. I think my would be somebody hat. Giovane you'll can somebody act shit. Check your phone back when we got ten minutes left town still on. I guess which one would do. We read a feeble really Ernst King. Not Part of that was that was the womb from my segment. I was GonNa do the much the NBA initial APP. I think My Person Anybody WanNA shoot lineup. We don't we just don't know should schools go back my from to school. Gomo back the already got thirty kids graduate. Some have two kids already each day outside grain and one trip and fall and scraped his elbow they got a Paris about now. What was the protocol was electoral? Call somebody that to keep as positive right not like this coming up next. August three sensual. I Send Me Nice for rich. Glad to hit a cave all little boy. Troy glad my favorite podcast back. But why did you guys in anyway? Then Nina also was for okay. That was more than the Nina's nice to see you. All back to doing podcasts again. Especially without a crazy going on. What about the Friday show? Is that coming back to to get the Friday. Show Bagman Friday. Shall I love Friday? Show Nano Mus which I do not have mercy. It is at the DAM HARDWARE STORE. Last question questions would try to get back on Answers cats going to questions got got anything I looked again. I see jets boomer's question. Should that we might have missed summer. Cats corners questions some in inside Kate. Podcasts gmail.com inside K. podcast at G. DOT COM or Komo advice white wanderers quarantine sleeping next to that person. Call Your spouse and you just you just find getting Norman Or her water right into lists. You're writing into good give you a God's honest truthful asked ignorant maiden actual but you will let you decide. We'll give you options. Abcd it does depends on how many people on the show today Sin Questions concerns feedbacks inside Kate. Podcast JIMMY DOT com like us on facebook. Social Media's ESTA ground twitter if you want rested include of feedback on get back in here. 'cause ain't Murshid trying to collect on the coin should have Persson are a real quick event. I mean almost a thousand dollars for that work. You like just don't on Friday. The monkey with on Friday to Monday. I may six hundred ads feedback with some Some marijuana stop it was on fire on five. Did it to Shepherd Ball. Balsam cash up on on Monday on Monday. Shot Up to the Mike Damn coin. Diva's a show but when I bought it it was a six eight range right on a dollar five hundred dollars and shallow to to the thousand nine hundred five some twenty right now so I did it again on another Saipa paid a little bit more for and today just shot up after I was shot up on the hours mark and I didn't let it go along with that good. I'm thinking it was going to make it back up to nineteen it got to weigh on. I got to eight almost eighteen but I popped them all and I made three off a day so Friday Friday the Monday will seeks fiftyish and today was three forty seven that US extra so I paid five hundred on Friday. I paid five hundred bought my shade so I I made my five hundred plus extra moss so I I was able to get him off. Five hundred soup six fifty new month. Luma did the same thing and today. I got my money back and then I made so now like you know casino terms days times last night based terms diversifier. Michael Silvio gun thing more saying forty five. We'll talk fame them. I twelve ups. All it's got a funky job dirty stories. Joe Back in type she'd spiracy. It's okay so eight. Thank everybody listening to inside. K Next. Zoos thought provoking her with special guests. Crusher rush inside. They came inside the three films. You do say you wanted to be an right.

Toni Kukoc United States Michael Jordan Toni Braxton NBA Jay Tony Brax Toni Lebron James Dry Braxton Harry White Michael Thompson Joe Back Monica Brandy Johnny China Axel Haig Cbs Scott Berea
ESPNLA Mornings with Keyshawn, LZ and Travis HR 2

Mornings with Keyshawn, Jorge & LZ

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

ESPNLA Mornings with Keyshawn, LZ and Travis HR 2

"The little Toni basil happy birthday basil as a basil basil, I thought it was basil. But it couldn't. It's not a birthday. No, no. We want to do. So remember the segment I would have been going here the follow up. So this was a one hit wonder. Yes, Tony Toni basil basil. But I'm always meeting in. I heard this up in a cabinets weekend. And I've always wondered what was the second song. What was the follow up to that? So the one hit wonders in some of the follow ups. I like, you know, and so her follow up what was called Chris. I don't know. But we'll do it at seven thirteen. It was pretty good. So I think it was St. beat or something. So that's the bit the follow up. Why were you in a cabin? Oh. Group of friends. I got a good video Chechen the video. Carrot? It was Dayton. Do I want to see this thing? I mean, you can always see it. I mean, no, I Chris we appreciate the open ended group of ten of us while. Yeah. Good times, we rocking out to this. Well, this was on wanted to mix is like eighty mix. And again, I, you know, I get inspiration sometime in like Marvin Gaye you into the Ken to the woods and a cabin so to die and I get inspiration for the follow up. A segment I wanna do. Good trip up to the woods for that. Did you know what else you go to the woods for what keys headline? This morning is presented by sprint. Kakuta do gentlemen. Cockatiel do. Well, we're going to follow up on the Nici nipsy hustle situation. Because now there is a suspect that's been named in the murder case and arrest warrant has been issuing our attorney general Eric Holder. Actually, attorney general is just that his name happens to be Eric Holder, which is awful. I saw it. I was like this is not right. We get one black attorney general and now he's made nifty hustles death. Eric Holder is wanted for the homicide shooting of nipsy hustle. He was last seen in twenty sixteen white Ford or Chevy Cruz, California license plate seven R J D seven four to anyone with information related to his whereabouts or this or this daily shooting is urged context south bureau homicide at three two three seven eight six fifty one hundred not only does he have a. Name that we all linked to history. Yeah. But then his street name is something I can't even repeat on air. Really that bad is a it's a Kersee word. Oh, she was funny actually rows with eighty when? When you said Eric Holder. I thought for a second likely brought in Eric Holder. That's harsh. That's what I thought. I mean, that's what I figured it was that's what I heard the name. And I heard the case and he say Eric hotels like going to him. They bring in the big gun. That's what I figured former attorney generals are in on. They are not messing around with trying to catch this guy. No. So the more of this story is if you're last name is hold or donating your son, Eric. Yeah. You got to think these things through you have to think these things I'm assuming. Yeah. They've got right now, I'm looking at the official LAPD Twitter account, and they've got this guy's photo up. That's a real Twitter. Yeah. They tweet. Yeah. Oh, yeah. All I wonder if they want to vote in my bracket. Sri ask this. I'll be fine a murder. Oh, which sound bite. You like I wonder if they like he's scary story or means said we've got a fifty fifty tie right now. Or maybe the little boy healthy. That's that's the number one seed overall. You know? I hope I make it to the final four. I'm like, dude. I mean, they they can they can weigh in right now they want to go to TMZ you can actually see footage of the shooting. You one of those? Are you one of those people that like seeing footage of light tragedies early? Not really. Yeah. Yeah. I I saw a chance to and if it's easy. I don't need to see it. Like, they kept showing remember to the the protests and the protests in Charleston, Charlottesville, Charlotte's Charleville. And he kept showing the car running over people over in higher. I was like what do you keep showing this listen to Caspian laws? Yes. Yeah. And sometimes I feel like I have to look at it. Just because I wanna know just the full tragedy of what happened. But it's an awful thing. You look maybe once and then that's the end of it. Odell Beckham junior awkward transition, very other. No other. When nearly you really gotta get back. Let me help you out. When. Speaking of replace I feel like that's just as awkward. All right. Like, there's sort of. What are we just playing song? And then come back. There's no real good way to get out of. It's Murtaugh so five minutes ago hard to go from Charlottesville to Beckham junior. Anyway. Oh, it's gone now feel good. Oh, good. Odell Beckham junior. Everything is no member of the Cleveland Browns. And there are some people felt like his reputation his last year or two with the giants took a hit because of some of the on and off the field antics. Odell Beckham junior says that there's a perception of him me first and that it's wrong. This is wrong. I don't I don't know how these planet like he's here today. I think that shows that you know, I it's just hard. It's all I know. I see all the stuff that said and everything. I think one of my biggest problems is that I care, but I don't care the same time. Because I know I am so nothing that said about me is ever going to bother me because I know who I am clearly bothers you. Clearly bothers you because of the tone in your voice as you're describing it not bothering you man, you in Cleveland. You were you were in New York. You were the toast of Manhattan. And now you in Cleveland, although that team's going to start getting a little wild about the team. It's about the city this about this about everything else. Just like we talked about in the Brian James not making just fully basketball decisions this this this move is a drastic change of lifestyle for someone who likes hanging out with Drake and be who likes to party scene who likes to celebrity seen who likes all the things that would it means to be like pizza with Instagram models and unidentified substances. Listen man, Cleveland has an airport, but it doesn't get that kind of traffic. You can you can find that though in Cleveland, you can run you at all. It's just not gonna be as glamour because you can find it. You just have to plan it like for instance, you can still hang out with Drake on August twelfth when he comes through and plays at quest at the q-, then you can go and you can go see Drake. And then he's going to be gone. He's not just. Hanging out in Cleveland, that's going to be a big change for him. The other thing is going to be a big change for him winning. He's actually going to be in a position to win again. And. You're gonna find out very quickly. If the perception of Odell Beckham junior is real or not because you're going to get opportunities to win. This is going to be a good football team. What was the over under nine when they jumped? They were the biggest jump Andy in the current debate. In terms of over under a win totals the Browns being the biggest jump. They would think that went up to nine. Yes, they went up to nine. Well, I mean, they're the hot team right now between Odell Beckham junior and Baker Mayfield. Jarvis Landry coaching like hunt. Yeah. Kareem hunt. I mean once he's back on the field and eight games eight gets half a season. But you know, if they if they can keep themselves just five hundred till he comes back right there. It's that TMZ presence. It's gonna be building in Cleveland. Like all of a sudden, there's going to be a bunch of dudes from TMZ who are going gonna get relocated to Cleveland because between ODBC and Baker Mayfield. You got guys who like attention, and they like spectacle. Yeah. I mean, that's one thing to have teams Z come to you. You. But again, it's about the life. And you know, you live in New York. I lived New York come on. Come on. There's no place in Cleveland where you can even pretend like you're kinda sorta almost in New York this just straight up Cleveland. I mean Cleveland is like Cleveland's one of those cities that people just make fun of it by name alone. Like, everyone knows what Cleveland means in terms of lack of glamour Applebee's is the go to spot, then he and Baker Mayfield can be running that place sponsor. Sponsor online travel, pretty big. Speaking of additions and subtractions Andes. No, no nosy wrong wrong. Henderson agreed to a deal with the Detroit Lions take it or shake. It will have an effect on the Rams this season. I am going to take it. Oh. I am going to take it because Todd Gurley clearly is dealing with knee issues. And he there's concerns I death authorize which that ain't fun especially at a young age and the type of pound in that he takes and thank you. I'm taking I'm taking it all the way draft, Malcolm, Malcolm Brown. We don't know exactly how he's gonna react this season. What his body is going to be like because he missed all last year. C J Anderson. Yes, it was fresh legs. But he was good for this team. So yeah, I'm taking it taking it that they're going to miss them. All right. Does he got a comment shoot? I was like I was impressed with him taking it. Sometimes you guys, I I'm I'm prone to think that the Rams are going to be just okay that this is an opportunity for less need to flex a little bit. And show his ability to identify town in the draft. You could get a guy who can give you the same sort of spelling that Todd Gurley would need in order to help preserve him for the ration- of his career. You can find a guy like that. We would just Kareem hunt. He wasn't like a top ten pick through. So I mean the end. And Lamar was a third round pick NFL is littered with these these sort of players who are in later rounds available and with the proper line scheme can be very productive thousand yard Russia's for us. If we need them to do all of that they're not special like a Todd Gurley. But there are good for spelling people. I mean, here's the thing. If Todd Gurley doesn't look like Todd Gurley pre authorized is really acting up last season, his backup becomes much less important thing. Like you want that guy to spell them? But if you really have to rely on that backup and less that backup just happens to be like a Todd Gurley in the waiting, and you just didn't know you get a lot problems. Anyway, like if you have to really rely on that backup that backup becomes really important Ila reason, we knew CJ Anderson had value with the Rams is because they were having trouble keeping Todd early on the field. But. CJ was also a veteran. Yeah. He was a veteran who had not been quite once but twice. So you have a sort of desperation Chipman showed on top of it any played with a really good team with a good blocking scheme that allowed him to thrive. And I'm I'm pretty sure less need factored in the fact that this is the draft. I can find a guy who can spell Todd Gurley for us. So Sean McVay talked about the Super Bowl loss. And what the teams mentality is like heading into the season on the heels of that loss, obviously disappointing way to end the season. But I think when you look back and reflect on really the journey and the entirety of what the season entailed so much appreciation for players for coaches being able to go through some adversity, and and love the way that our guys responded. And then there's been a lot of good moments that we can reflect back on certainly losing that Super Bowl, you know, that's things and you don't shy away from that. But I think the biggest thing that we try to take away whether you win or you lose. It's a learning opportunity and for us. You know, we're excited about getting our guys back, but it's been good. It's good to be here. And it's been fun. When you hear that? Here's here's what makes me feel like that isn't just cliche coach speech from McVeigh is two years ago. The Rams ahead of the curve. They got into the playoffs. They lost in the opening round to Atlanta. But they talked about it being a learning experience. And then last year they get all the way to the Super Bowl. So they clearly learn something from that. And they lost in the Super Bowl, and it was disappointing. And they did not play. Well, I think they got out scheme certainly Jared Goff didn't have his best game. But I feel like this is a group that's going to learn from it. And I would challenge the notion they didn't play. Well, I mean, you're in a tied game offensively offensively offensively. They couldn't get it going offensively. They played defense was amazing. Yes. Yes. Amazement they they were a couple scores away from the narrative being Tom Brady didn't play well Brady really didn't. Hey that grain till the forty one. Yeah. It's like maybe a hand like halfway through the fourth quarter. I know that's amazing with Tom Brady with career. I mean like that guy has managed to avoid, you know, some of what LeBron goes through, you know, with having gotten to that many finals LeBron is a three and six record like just a couple series can be the difference from being considered the all time greatest quarterback versus the guy who gets to the Super Bowl. But you never quite know what you're going to get from them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean typically in a series the best team wins in a one game playoff scenario. You know, you you think the best team win. But fluky things can happen. I'm pretty sure a lot of people last year felt as if the eagles got lucky. Yeah. You know, but luck or not Nick foles is a Super Bowl MVP. Look. I mean, Joe flacco we earlier he bet on himself at the right time. He was never that good a quarterback before the Super Bowl hasn't been that good since never Falco. But he was good at the right time. Yes, I'm a dodgers coming off a loss last night. They are three and two. There have been some big positives and big negatives for the opening five games. Talk about those coming up next kind of sounds like the first one I was going to say Toni basil was cheating a little bit trying to bring over the fans of. Oh, Mickey with that. Same drumbeat. That's why guys. This is the follow up. When you have that one hit wonder, and you just wonder what about the second? So follow it up with this is from. Oh, Mickey he's so fine. Whatever this is the follow up. Street beat. You can hear like trying to stretch a little bit. Like she doesn't want to be like pigeonholed as Mickey. But she don't wanna stretch so much that people don't recognize it because that beats the same drumbeat. She don't want anything that stretch that much. Yeah. Maybe did more though that would have helped the career. I mean, you don't know. This is try to stretch out. Why didn't work didn't happen? So we got a dead heat right now. On twitter. I mean, look at that was no I refused to believe. Yeah. You go. Too far led us to be we leave it up. So far. Yeah. Really my Corey off Mike, Mike. Bro. I you still fifty one percent right now, we're going with the fourteen seat means said over into the three seat key scary story. So vote now on Twitter are sound sixteen bracket. The Amine said the fourteenth seed is fifty one percent. To key scary story, forty nine one. Can we play? The key scary story to refresh people's mind. That's an all request Wednesday thing. That's tomorrow. You know, the one it's the one where he throws the shoot. He goes. Okay. We hold on. Thank you it is unfair. If we played a mean sale. It's like you gotta as long people. What's going on? Yeah. I kind of you don't want to seem like a corrupt election know, why he does that what happened at a chap has ravine last night. Dodgers lost four to two Joe Kelley got waxed. And then I was gonna say introduction to his hearing last night Joe Kelley actually was getting at the ravine one and two thirds innings pitched last night. Four hits four earned runs home run. The second home run he has given up into appearances as a dodger. He was supposed to be the big off season pitching get for this team. And thus far he has not been very good Elsie. He has not an coming on a heels his brand performance in the World Series. Obviously we thought we had made the Bosox weaker by subtraction. Well, now, we've gotten a little bit weaker by Titian because this Joe is not the Joe that we saw now maybe these are only two times he'll call up the ams and from the rest of the season. He's just going to be outstanding. But you earn those boos? They don't do off. Often the fans don't boot like that often. You know, what though they don't do often? But I have found over the last few years once they get upset they get mercilus like they like they don't do off in. But once they decide to boo once we decide who you like what the thumbs the gladiator thumbs up thumbs down like once that foams down comes out. You are getting booed hor could you earned it? Yeah. You have to really do some stuff to get us a stain boot like US Pedro bias if these fans will boo. I mean, he knows what that's like he's been through that for like two seasons. This isn't Philly where we boo because essentially it up. Yeah. You know, this is this is earned boo and so- Joe. Congratulations and two outings, you've managed to earn a boo. Now, what we need you to do is actually throw some strikes because about three Annie's you've given us two strikes. Two strikeouts and three innings pitching. No. That's not a good radio dog. But when you've given up as many home, ROY. Runs as strikeouts. That's not a good ratio at all. No. And it's important to remember too that Joe Kelley as great as he was for the Red Sox against the dodgers last year in the World Series. He had not been very good up to that point. Like he actually had been shaky enough that there was some talk that he wasn't even going to make the postseason roster. So you know, Joe Joe Kelley leading up to that World Series. Where clearly the dodgers saw a lot of them. And they were impressed by what they saw that wasn't all of Joe Kelley last year. And it speaks to just what a crap shoot it can deal with relief pitchers. So right now his ear as of eighteen I'm I'm thinking about may come down. Oh, yeah. But vast season to your point for point three nine it's kinda high. Yeah. The season before that those two point seven nine. Not bad season before that five point one eight. But again belief pitching, it's all just a crap shoot. A really quick Chris in LA has got some Toni basil now. Hey, good morning fellows. Good morning. A little unknown fact about Tony bay. They'll see was one of the creators of the lockers, which I don't know if you remember that L visa assurance from Detroit. But it really put locking on the map in LA. And they they were on soul train, then rerun Fred berry played reruns in the group. But yeah, the little white chick. Coney bay though was the one was one of the creators of top lock in here. Really Toni basil who told you that Tony Tony tell you that. No, no, not not a documentary on it years ago was Tony the producer of the. Was she the only source interviewed. With a lot of interviews being done with shadowy figures. Would bars over there is Toni basil I'm looking this up right now, Toni basil cheerleader, right? She video while I mean in life to video to me like I like the warrior with. Lori. She wasn't actually chill leader. Where was she? Jessica. Right now. Jess Belle dot com. You can see Toni basil break. Dancing to house music that comes up easy. Follow people. Also, ask was Toni basil a cheerleader also comes up, and that makes sense only gone to just reading Google inserts. This makes sense. If you Rosh does the rundown. What's the difference easy by? So key scary story has now overtaken mean said fifty one nine here is key scary story. So that's key scary story. And by the way, Chris in LA called via the sprint people's hotline. So we learned a lot about Toni basil, she's almost seventy five. She's almost seventy five years old four. Yeah. That's almost. Threes. It'd be almost seventy five if she was seventy three and a half she could almost be seventy five because you rounding up at that age. She she is seventy five she's going to be seventy six. Yes. She is already seventy five that's still almost seventy. Wow. L these rights do that you have a segment guys. Stucco, dodgers, go. How do you look last night? Who'd he us. Look good man that it's first starting like two years didn't give up any runs. He had the heat had the control he only through seventy seven pitches. And they're obviously you're gonna be keeping tabs on his work load because they want to make sure that he's available throughout the entire season. Right. And they're hoping that they've got the type of depth that we've seen over the last couple of years where they can put guys, you know, sort of on the injured list finger quotes, you know, and take their time and make sure that none of these guys into two taxed when September comes around. I mean when September it runs around we're going to have real who is an amount today against the Madison Bumgarner Richhill Kershaw. Bueller? If I feel good going into the postseason, these guys a healthy rise and nausea Livia. Newton John wasn't really an aerobic system. She wasn't. What was Toni basil? I'm looking now, I need to know her background since you're gonna make fun. This is a living Newton, John. If you're looking at video where she looks like rainy. Days. Say very racy video. I didn't realize that. Have you seen this video was tears a lot going on in this video? Thank you would like it. No, no. I noticed that is like one of the games videos over together never noticed until it. It actually turned me gay this video leans in leans into what it's doing dangling, a carrot dangling, a carrot. That's straight cucumber baby. I yeah. I see I go ahead and tease out of that police in trouble. Lebron James some news about this summer for LeBron. But also future summers talk about that coming up next dangling, a carrot. So we're still watching this new John video in here. He gets even weirder. Calm down. There was a lot happening in that video that I did not pick up on when I was like eight years old. There's a lot going on highly recommend people go to YouTube genres Jones interesting. Yes, it is. I mean, let me hear your body talk. She's pretty explicit. Speaking of explicit. I want Rosh, especially apologized to me. Can we get a little neater banker, please? Thank you. Because I enquired if Toni basil basil, and how you pronounce the last name was a cheerleader you rate, it me, and then I actually gold, and yes, she was a cheerleader. In fact, the uniform she wore in the video is a modified version when I was her uniform to what you were. And that's that's pretty good. So bam apologize now. Sorry, thank you. Go someone dresses as so many video. It is not the way you should teach the children. That's not what they do in realize dresses like a lot of things in his videos that doesn't mean he's like, correct. No, actually, that's pretty much. What Raja's the way he dresses is pretty much. What we see a fireman? How late at night. Sometime. There's a whole joke in here. To say this. Lebron James we've gotten some news on his off season coming up right now because LeBron Rula Braun is officially now in off season mode. He's been shut down for the remainder of the year for thirteen seasons. Yep. Is a I I I wrote a piece actually for the ethnic writing about the Lakers for the athletic like the company, man. Oh, absolutely. I learned it from you go like the things that have changed in the world of the NBA or just the world period. Since the last time LeBron didn't go to the playoffs which was two thousand five. And now, it's insane. Like, we always talk about NBA Twitter Twitter was a year way from being launched the last time. Lebron didn't go to playoffs. Like the the sons that year led the league for points per game in like one hundred ten that would get you now. Twentieth in the league. Like, I it's we were like a compliment. We were a couple months away from seen Christian bale suit up for the first time as Batman like. That that was the last time LeBron hasn't been in the playoffs. Like, George W Bush was a year into his second term like our our current president was in season three of the apprentice. Yeah. Exactly. But it's it's nuts. How much like how long LeBron has just had these sustained appearances in the playoffs. I guess that's part of the reason. Why is so frustrating for a lot of people because they just assume that was going to continue no matter who was around him. And I think we overlooked a handful of factors number one. Which was he was always in those runs with veterans. And this is the first time he's begs to being with a bunch of kids as his primary, go To's. And at the veterans were just supposed to dispel guys before remember, especially doing a great championship runs in freaking Miami. Shane baddie, a Mike Miller Miller he like adult Alan right adults as a supporting cast this time round you look around Zo. And and you could be in college right now, they could but but I will say. This. If you look at this team when they had success and the numbers and the record they were at their best when they had the kids out there like the kids the kids by and large held up their end of the bargain way, more than the veterans that they brought in the one year guys the mean team, the the kids, you know, particular to you see in their absence what Brandon Ingram and Lonzo ball meant those guys brought more to the table over the course of the year. Then the veterans that they had around the Braun this year. Yeah. I mean people like to say this season was a complete failure. And certainly been disappointing. But I there were two things that prevents me from calling a complete failure in first and foremost is the fact that the season roster was constructed with the guise of we need to be major players in this upcoming all season that has been accomplished, but it's not a completed grade because we need to see who we get. Well, I we it hasn't been accomplished yet. Because we don't know we know that they are in position to be players. We don't run away that they're going to be players. Right. And I also I feel like they could have set up their roster this year where they still had flexibility be players in the off season. But they had more creativity in im- guys that they brought in like you could have brought in you kept Julius Randle and signed him to a tradable deal. They actually need a Julius Randle type contract. Like, I've theoretical thirteen year multi year thirteen million dollar multi year contract if they're trying to trade for somebody like Anthony Davis like you need one of those money balancing contracts, like unless you're. And do a sign and trade with Casey p they don't really have any of those guys. I think the part of the reason why with a timing situation to juniors Jimmy who's going to sit around and wait to see if Paul George and the Brahma gonna come before you decide to sign his contract. He was going to take the money. Nobody. That well, though, we should really we pause anyway. Right. But they poison the well with Julius by beginning all of last year treating him. Like, yeah. We know you're not going to be part of this. Like, I mean, they made that just transparently clear we've already written off Randall then Randall ended up playing way better than they thought. He would. And then all of a sudden, you don't end up getting Paul, George, which I think completely sucker punch them. And they didn't even get a meeting with Paul George, and then very rude yet totally route. I mean, it's hard to compete though, with that type of concert that they threw an okay see, I mean, seriously a continental o'casey private concerts LA, but it's a private concert for him though. But anyway, though, I feel like this, and this is hopefully something that rob Lincoln Magic Johnson. Learn from you can be more creative in the way, you set this up as opposed to just treating it like clean caps has to be totally clean. I I hear you. I hear you. I'm sure part of it is that because I'm of Magic Johnson so much. Gonna give him a much longer benefit of the doubt than I would probably someone else. But I'm going to wait and see what this looks like after off season decide. Been bad coming up L Z's top ten. So what's his what's his follow up? This is not follow up. Snow? It's no, no, no. Let is snow not that kind of snow, but this was on the charts top of the charts. I believe it was twenty four years ago. The follow up is at that. A Yankee remade this song twenty six years ago. Sure did twenty six-year-old snows informer was on top of the charts. April second nineteen Ninety-three snow. I did not have much of a follow up. We did not hear much from snow after informer, the no that's pretty much where it began continue in the right side of the bracket right now on e at ESPN, Los Angeles on Twitter are sound sixteen key in Travis say, and touch it Hori. Let me what what are you unwrapping over there? That's not me. Can still on to wreck Kuhn. So we've got the seventh seed you can touch touch it. That's touch it versus. And right now, the ten seat is running away with it Betty co is running away with it. You can vote at east Sandra's. Sure people. Sure, people haram. You know, what else runs away with people what? What? What we were a little loose. Well, as you guys all know, Marvin Gaye would have been eighty years old today. His what's going on album is considered by many to be his crown jewel his discography. But also just in terms of just pop culture in general, just one of the most significant socially conscious recordings ever. It had been really nothing like it. But nothing like it before or not much like it'd be for anyway. Okay. So I put together my top ten list of my favorite woke songs now. There are woke socially conscious songs out there. That would not be on the list, and I apologize. I just racing scratch off we other world in case you a waiting to see if that was gonna make it. Really a woke song. It's a well-meaning say well intended CEO, the ones make a brighter day. So let's start giving coming into number ten. Sliding the family stone everyday people. Okay. A great soul different strokes for different folks. Come on, you know, that pardon coming in number nine can have a list without prince sign all the time. Oh, excellent. Call. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. I'm not going on in that song who's not very easy to rep about sing about aids nineteen nineties that he brings up heroin heroin a lot in that very very woke song coming in number eight. I wanna give show you some some love for this. Bob, molly's war. Okay. All right now. I know a lot of you guys like on what about I shut the share? What about also? The school. But if you really want to know what Bob was really about play war. Yeah. Wars is him cutting to the chase. Right. None of that dance. And make you feel equal stuff. Mountain war come in at number seven when a my personal favorite NAS. I can I just liked the curse isn't make you feel like I can do anything. I don't know that one which one is play a little bit for can had to help India. Hold on. Yeah. I don't remember that one. That's really good any minute. Now, we're going to hear just how how maybe. This. I mean, this has been done if you guys would just come in and talk to me here, we go. Okay. I remember this one. I remember that one. Do you? Remember that one? I'll go work the week. Number six ask anyone to good. Good and ask for a way. I just said I didn't know the song coming in number six is not only a sneaky woke song. But as one of the greatest karaoke songs to Arab and karaoke. You ready? Yeah. Jack and Diane by John cougar Mellencamp. That's a sneaky good pick. Very sneaky sneaky good pick that song as won't to the whoa. Whoa. Let's woke in the heartland milk in the heartland. You know what? Because folks asleep there too and chocolate came and woke them up on top of that when you're drunk and doing care yoki. Everyone helps you out because of course is so Lois song about cycle of life for some people that never changes. Exactly, I never listen to it like that. We've got to down you wanna play that sound to know not by the way, one of those days where it's really fortunate that I'm here not Travis. Maybe I'm going to no more of this. This is true. I'm going to know the more this all right coming in at number five truth change is going to come Sam Cooke Sam Cooke. Chu. I look I backed myself into a corner with that statement came in how yeah didn't even hesitate rate. So number four great Marvin Gaye what's going on number three puck. Keep your head up. Okay. We need to we need to put know that. I know that. Why? When there the eternal debate between who's the goal between him or big able when I used to do even though I'm neither one is my favorite. I choose pocket because he had walked songs. Yeah. Well, he just he was a deep guy who's a really deep guy like if he'd still been alive. He I think by now he would have his acting career would have gone to places where he's been getting Oscar nominee. I mean, he was really talented. Yeah. Yeah. He was as a writer has performed a lot of things to say a lot of things. We're listening to you have got a lot of things to say. But he had things worth listening to that sounds great number to fight the. Follow. Here. The best the best. I still listen to them with the windows down his new like that that album, and it takes nation of millions to hold us back are so great. So you can have a history class by plan. Was there a history class? But they're entertaining. Right. Like, it's an entertaining version of history and for the young people there public enemy. They never said the name we got to say the name. Will. Mcgrath the arrays, right? Think of your demographics. Not everyone knows not up in poor in Detroit. Listening to hip hop. Cassettes? Do they allow that stuff behind the gates where you grew up rush to get that yet because he was intelligent? He had to sneak it in and then coming in at number one I have to find a plug. It's my Paget's. From my pet that Jews ran out. I was writing last night, and I didn't plug it back in number one for the love of the money. OJ's? People like to say. Money's root of all evil. That's not the phrase. It's the love of money that is root of all get the get the paper. Just keep it in perspective. And I just love the way they just broke it down for the love of money team still now, mama. Well, I mean, what it does T like how badly you want that money and the compromises that you willing to make you know, on behalf of that money, and defended you can dance and learn at the same time basis. A number one song at baseline is. So good epic epic. Now, of course, there are tons of tons of other songs, I've missed I know this don't yell at me. We are the world's probably twelve. All right. We had a brief discussion about ebony and ivory a brief discussion. Barry my song, which we won't say on a year, but could have been in your segment of people from NWEA community. Like that song. I'm sure I'm sure we just couldn't say that like there. Yeah. Couldn't do that. Madonna has a few woke song. Oh, yeah. Like, a virgin was very woke awakening getting like the black. Getting. That was my Capri like a prayer prayer. And Papa don't preach. Don't probably don't preach. Actually, sneaky woke always totally semi. Catchy. You start listening to what it's about. It's like, whoa. Whoa. She's not going to have an abortion. Okay. I can see why. This would be heavy. Yeah. Like, it's just catchy enough that you're if you're not paying attention. You just think it's about like a father and daughter arguing right? I'm going to that party. And he's going to party and don't tell me what I'm wearing. And you can't forget like Cindy Lauper, man. We heard woke song you remember this one. She bop. She bought was very woke because she bought bothering much awakening. Yes. More awakenings. Yes. I mean, that's yeah. That's woke right? There's girls. Just wanna have fun was kind of woke. I don't think we should be using woke in that camp. Well, I mean, we we've commercialized didn't bastardized it to this point. Where did you see the clip of the newscasts where they were all trying to use popular raises, so painful is so painful to watch soap, I can't believe we actually should play that at some point. But I simply cannot believe that they thought it was a good idea to do that. To to to have a tire news team use phrases like woke and all of that. That's right. And you know, this was a good idea to tell you about manscaping. It's brought to you by manscaping. The segment top ten Tuesday man's Cape dot com, number one in men's below the waist, grooming. Speaking of ideas, Jon Gruden seems like he's got a few when it comes to the future of the quarterback position with the raiders talk about that coming up next.

Toni basil basil Cleveland Twitter LeBron dodgers Toni basil Marvin Gaye Eric Holder Odell Beckham Tony Toni basil basil Todd Gurley Chris Joe Joe Kelley LA Rams New York Lebron James murder Detroit
Beloved by Toni Morrison

Backlisted

1:01:20 hr | 1 year ago

Beloved by Toni Morrison

"It it was really great. We had a lovely time and they looked after very nicely so John. What did we do. What was the highlight of our trip. Without without doubt the highlight of a trip given the I was prevented from consuming the shellfish the armor which which can only catch on when certain spring tides tide's coming in numerous tides. We'd missed it was we went to Victor Hugo's house. Victor Hugo was inexorable on Guernsey for how many fifteen the and he wrote finished Les Mis when he was there and he also wrote a book sort of set in and around Ghanzi the tour of the C. which are now bowl copy of in French. GonNa read it. Goods eat up. When I was there I can confirm. He looks quite you wearing a Gonzi. If you've ever been to channel on I actually my best friend fails Gundy okay so I was hoping that there would be still people speaking patois other but I think he's only the old people really because because of the war the children were all evacuated obviously occupied by the the Nazis regio good here we go hello and welcome to back listed the podcast that gives new life to old books today you you find us on the outskirts of Cincinnati in the years. After the civil war the snow is falling heavily as we stand on Bluestone road staring a number one to four a house apart a house with secrets a house with ghosts. I'm John Mitchelson. The publisher unbound the platform from where readers crowdfunding books they really want to read and I'm Andy Miller author of the year of reading dangerously joining us. Today is pretty teenager. Hi Hi hello pretty is a novelist and teacher in prisons and in universities novel we the young which we loved on back list is published by the excellent Galley Beggar Press one the twentieth eighteen Desmond Elliott Prize for the best debut of the year it was also shortlisted for the Republic of consciousness snus prize and the books in my bag readers choice awards and longlist for the Jalek pros the folio prize and for Europe's most prestigious award for a work of world willed literature the pre show mcaliskey it has been translated into seven languages to date are there more in the offing. I hope so and there's there's another award which I was very proud to be the sit for in India called the Chuck P but First Book Award which is given an owner of a young women who died but and you know it's amazing to be recognized in all of these different ways by people in different. Pudgy well did did you expect it could take several years to Roy at what it took a long time to write it took like three or four years to write but it took about the same amount of time to find a home yeah okay so is seven years is made up of this the the writing struggle and then the and then the publishing struggle and we'll Roy thinking. You weren't insist around going well. It'll be fine because I'm going to these prizes. When it comes out he would be right. It's a great publishing story. I mean you know we love gala. Kelly anti-beggar what they do and they published the book I think published a book brilliantly in the UK but but it's also published by Knopf in the US which choose life is the higher wrong on the publishing tree soon everything yeah to go from the wildest small press publishing into the world over the top flight. Yes it's been an extraordinary experience of eighty. The Great Sonny measure who still is still up north but that is that is publishing bay takes you a while to find a publisher united work with small presses and then you the book suddenly bursts onto onto the scene wins wins prizes gets amazing reviews and then the foreign deals fall into post. Yeah I mean it all happened in slightly. I'm roundabout Jigsaw Puzzle Way with me I think the book sold to not before the Desmond Elliott Prize they they bought it in August September October but it was very shortly after it came out in the UK Sunny Bush himself economic fan. I had the opportunity to work with him which it's been incredible so and it's also so we young is going to be a TV series right so you and also you publish Nov which means that you didn't want me to say this but let's state the facts you share publisher with tiny. Morrison it is true and feels like full circle in many ways because Sonny was actually an arbiter Pickett'll Buchan Day in the UK when I first read the love it at school so I think he had a hand and in bringing more than two tobacco in the UK and an book beloved was on the School Curriculum when I was doing my ate apples so that's how it came into my life and it just sold itself the language just sold itself into me like DNA because I I was taught it very well and years later obviously decades later basically when I met Sunny I just wanted to thank him for that moment and maybe something about what he likes in resonated through mine. I hope because I think you all what you read in many ways. You made a mere folks. Will we believe here. We'll come. We'll come on to that in relation to the boot. We're going to be on its relationship to the books but we're not quite there great. You might have guessed that the book Richie is here to talk to us today about his beloved by Tony Morrison First published in one thousand nine hundred seven by cannot Sunny Mesa and which went to win the Pulitzer Prize for fiction in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight among many other prizes and was controversially shortlisted but didn't win the National Book Award in Nineteen ninety-seven but in two thousand six the New York Times China's declared beloved the best work of American fiction of the previous ten years now. We just want to say to everyone listening that are starting point for talking about both beloved and Tony Morrison is is this that we all believe that beloved is one of the greatest novels of the twentieth century and and that Tony Morrison is the greatest living American writer and we believe it so strongly. It's not even an opinion. It's the starting think's going to be the starting point of this discussion so we're not going to be sitting here going issues good as Donna Lillo. It doesn't matter the book is important. She is is incredibly important. I feel both honored and intimidated having to talk about this particular blue but I'm so pleased the we decided to do with you because it's just a moist pace. Yes novel. Yes absolutely is and you know that feeling of being ordered unintimidated simulated did exactly right but at the same time she drowsy win to a sense of bliss almost now with the way she uses language and the way she constructs a sentence and the things that she can bury within that. It's like falling in love to aspect yeah well listening every so I thought I John. What have you been reading. I've been reading a really lovely collection of stories stories by a radical Lisa blow who is from stoke and it's called. It's gone dark over bills mothers which is a foul. I'm going to read a little bit which puts it in context is a collection of short pieces if you can think of a sort of Alan Bennett monologues in a lot of ways. They're they're really wonderfully funny. Wise a lot of the one thousand nine hundred eighty S. I think they were written over a period of ten years. Be Slow is featured in the anthology of working class writers that are managed just published a common common people edited by Kid Devil and she was one of the writers that that really stood out for me. She's she's published by myriad press. This is another excellent small press publishing and if you're interested in you know fish paste sandwiches and going on holiday and the you know your your likes sticking to the back of your you nine hundred seventy s car or all my interest one of the stories I love this. This story will drive in seventeen in seventeen views where seventeen different very short pieces about driving cars from there is a wonderful lovers are professor having an affair with the student which is brilliant and none of this is complicated challenging but she writes with a precision and a AH humor. The great stories are always about what isn't included as well as what's in and she's a she's actually I think a master of the form and I I just really I raced through reading reading really enjoyed it. Huge recommend it. I'm going to read you a little bit which is from a story called potluck which is a better better at classic. Classic sort of cafe are trying not to hope I get my kind of slightly kind of Midland's the accent right for it because it is a monologue is very much in that Alan Bennett. What can I get. You took sausage egg capacity. Don't worry you here now so you can stop looking at the floor. I welcome all lids that don't fit in spouse that don't bore who who told you about me though he looked familiar like I know you. Who's your mother does. She live on Warrington road. It's the is you see. I never forget a pair of eyes and you've got big eyes duck. They give you they give you away. I hope you don't mind me saying that. My Eyes like yours are sad stories. You tell them whether you like it or not. Now come on and get warm. That's it you need some sugar in that to your skin and bone but haven't gotten any food. Was that busy last week. You forgot what you need. Do I not get to choose. Can I get some of that. What am I supposed to do with kidney beans from number nine cheating on about the Veg- again rather frozen if you've got it took those carrots last month went black I said to next time time you took stuff out shuttling to me. I can make meals out of onions. She says well give five. No see what's on the turn cause some faces. Don't want you to see them. Make out like they. I don't know you win the settlements. I'd use school others. Turn out with a couple of shopping trucks next door's. Abyan verifies cheek. It's like there's a war on rationing all over again my mother would. I'd say if there's a man in the world they'll always be was a my father would go hester as long as this woman. That'd be men forget. It only took one woman to bring down a lifetime of men enough he'd go again. There was a time when you couldn't Emil in any decency without the potus from stoke proud of every dinner table. We were till those slow boats from China promised cheap. Cheap sheep can't grow a bloody teapot for toffee anymore. Four thousand kin's gone later and it's gone dark over bills mothers. Is You realize just how much daylight kilns it's letting it's just it's just lovely. He's the whole additions and it's gone dark over. BILLS BUILDS MOTHERS Andy. What have you been reading well when we went on our Guernsey many break. I felt like I was on holiday. I although we working I'm working hard but I did feel like it was it was really exciting to be backing Guernsey and so I thought I wanted to read was something that would be a a contrast to the we were there to discuss and also with Tony Morrison how is reading in preparation for this episode and so I chose a book that was published last Austria and which has just come out in paperback by Porac O'Donnell called the House on vesper sands now. Do you know anything about this noble. No right it sent in the winter of eighteen ninety three and as it Stoltze unclear what is going on what you know is that a seamstress mysteries has been invited into house in Mayfair that something isn't right that she has stitched something into her on skin and that before the chapter is out so spoilers on the first chapter she's committed suicide cranky and and this. This book got me within about six pages. Really you know I'm a fan on this podcast grunting away about the things he's having too much plot. I have a slightly queasy relationship with how I feel about plot. This is just the right amount of plots. You can put that on Makamba. House presents has just the right man. I thought it was absolutely wonderful a fantastic mixture of a detective novel and and a Ghost Story and a horror fiction and it seemed to me very consciously Porac O'Donnell is bringing in Wilkie Collins and Dickens and CONAN doyle not just in Sherlock Holmes Not GonNa read a bit in a minute with detective detective but also CONAN Doyle's interest in the paranormal in spiritualism is reflected in this book. It reminded me of the woman in black by Susan Hale it reminded me of the TV series Ripper Street John Young Roy so he has that really real energy and Sousse of Victorian Baroque but it's thrilling and stylish and it's also really funny. It has some really wonderful set pieces and then he manages to do that thing that I think lots of people trying to write this kind of noval would like to do but perhaps is more challenging than one might think that he's able to shift gear from the modes of storytelling quite brilliantly. I must say that you go from something which is making you laugh and then two pages lacy. I say you're absolutely horrified by what you're being presented with and really. It's a wonderful wonderful but never goes what you think is going to do it. Warden is a kind of Victorian Victorian so so so here's a little bit. This is a discussion between inspector cutter and a servant in the house where the seamstress has committed suicide. He is called Karoo but first we hear from Inspector Cutter Inspect Custody says now will you be an obliging obliging fellow and show us to the particular room in the upper part of the house where this misfortune occurred it was a room I take it and not a chimney or nest in the eaves for the good inspector inspector but I hope you will refrain from any further levity for you. Find us all greatly saddened. Waters occurred levity inspector cut his face darkened and and he clamped his hand for a moment over his jaw for an instant Gideon imagine that some predatory creature looked within a might burst from him at any moment like an unrooted Hawk from its perch levity. Will you tell me Carroo. Do you keep an eye to the newspapers tool on occasions as my duties permit it. Did you ever read the case of the children of doctors and John. The slow through the Jones carries is widened but he checked himself almost at once. I believe I saw some mention of it and do you recall how many children isn't Jones had and what ages were not to an exactness inspector. I would not have had the leisure to five there. Were five since John Children. The eldest was Antony a boy of thirteen and the youngest was Matilda. Matilda was a babe of fifty months and was still nurse at the time per day. Do you know how it is that I come to know that Noah inspector how could I you could naught and I will do you the kindness of keeping it from you for sure you it is a thing that would never leave you but I will tell you this much. I know their names and their ages I know the color of each one's hair and I could give you a litany of every scrap of clothing that was on them. It was I who made the photographic plates that was shown to the jurors. Since the Frenchman we depend upon in the normal course would come no further than the head of the stairs. Did you know carry that the adult take a small child of formed in her jaw long before the milk teeth and lost. I did not inspector yes. It's a remarkable thing they hidden away until recall for in a tiny imperfect ray the workings of nature a puzzle and I suppose I have been fortunate to have glimpsed them as others have not it but you may be certain of this much Karoo if I had any great store of Merriment when I went into that house and I suspect I had note if the truth be known then it was gone for me and Tali when I came out and it has never troubled me again so I I thoroughly enjoyed that. That's out in paperback. Many of you might be able to have a holiday this year if you do. I I strongly recommend the House on Vespa Sans Bright but now we have to move onto the main event which is beloved put by Toni Morrison. I thought maybe we would hear from Tony Morrison herself. We're going to hear from her a few times but I thought maybe she could read to us. This is from about fifty pages into the novel and it's where the character of beloved makes her first appearance. A fully dressed woman walked out of the water. She barely gained the dry bank of the stream before she sat down and leaned against a mulberry tree all day and all night. She sat there her head resting on the trunk in a position abandoned enough to crack the Bram in her straw hat everything hurt but her lungs most of all sopping wet and breathing shallow. She spent spent those hours trying to negotiate the weight of her eyelids. The day breeze blew her dress dry the night when wrinkled it nobody saw her emerge or came accidentally by if they had chances are they would have hesitated before approaching her not because she was wet or dozing or had what sounded like asthma but because middle that she was smiling it took her the whole of the next morning to lift herself from the ground and make her way through the woods past giant. Temple of Boxwood to the field and in the yard of the slate gray house exhausted again she sat down on the first hand he place a stump not far from the steps of one twenty four by then keeping her eyes open was less of an effort she she could manage it for a full two minutes more her neck. Its circumference no wider that policy service saucer kept the bending and her Chen brushed the bit of lace edging her dress prissy. I mean we're all sitting here. sleigh stunned by actually hearing that read aloud what are the qualities of Toni Morrison's pros that you can hear just in that one paragraph well when I listen to that power groff. I'm listening for all of the things make her work and her sentences in her language so exciting and you know what she's doing that is she's compressing language and distilling language to multiple meanings in every sentence so when you have this idea of the trunk then you're thinking not just about the tree trunk but you're thinking about the body parts of the body that we call the trunk so then you imagine that this young woman with this huge effort drags herself to this. House this mysterious young woman she sits down on the first thing she sees an. It's a tree stump so that part of her body which is trump actually becomes the next part of the tree and it's done so carefully and soaked easily and so beautifully it just happens at the back lack of your brain as a reader you just take that in and you just read. Is that somehow this the writer who can vote how much how much the human world and the natural world just few fused together then this will say this idea that this trunk has been that she's sitting on a stump a trie and that is his just exactly what her own story is. I don't want to ruin it for readers. You haven't read the book but it's a ghost story and this young woman has has had a violence done to her. She's grown out of into the ghost which has to do with axes and cuttings and of course the tree is very resonant in the context of this novel. It's the slavery novel. It's a place where a tree can be both the site of great an awful violence against is black bodies where bodies hung and it can also be something very sheltering and that idea of the tree and reclaiming the shelter the tree becoming something that takes nurture is is part of this book. It's ingrained in this book so it's got a lot of the layers of meaning Tony Morrison never ever straight from connecting the body through its experiences what she shows us to material objects either so when she talks about this neck as the size of a saucer we're in the parlor with something balancing really eighty gently and this such dread in the idea of the axe and this trembling and it's all there in that tiny paragraph that we just Harry I I read this novel in two thousand six and I read it as one of the books for for my uh-huh dangerously and I can remember reading that specific paragraph which is one of the reasons why we heard it. They're thinking how in a way preceived just explained it really anyway anyway was how is she doing that. How is she marrying lyricism and horror horror which one of those things is making the has on the back of my neck stand up on end. Is it both at the same time it probably is and and one of the things I think about beloved specifically and I suppose Toni Morrison's writing in general it is that she manages through Croft and genius. Yes to create a voice acid several things that shouldn't work together that she makes work together. I think one of the most important things that she does is she remembers. How naming can be subversive you know and in every way that she gives us an idea of something she uses that idea to to find the uncanny in its own self so so when we hear that paragraph we hear here that it's not because this young woman looks sleepy or she's dozing. It's not because she's Pale. She's wet it's because she's smiling and the smile is that thing that brings the horror to that paragraph because we are trained socially to think of smiles welcoming. It's something that we want to be part of this this judge Roy but it's it's. It's intensely private. It's a smile saying I know more than you at. I'm coming to get you so you know it too and there is no escape from that and by you. You will also mean the reader we do. You know this idea that she since this about lungs as well. I think is really important. The pain and how long's is the worst pain of all and so I'm thinking when I'm hearing that is oh it's because because she's been gasping for breath because she's trying to tell this story that is just submerged under layers and layers of history and silencing in censorship and this is a kind of metaphor for the whole but creedy passage catches it beautifully. The simplest scenes are as you say these multi-layered right so you the book never relaxes no way. You can't read this book. You simply cannot read this book quick tree. I've read a lot of criticism of it which is people haven't liked the beloved character because he it gets to supernatural and then I've read other criticism saying oh no. It's perfectly possible that this is a case of mistaken identity. That doesn't seem to me to be what the what she's doing doing is creating that space that charge space where you you can't choose because she's not letting you choose making both possibilities simultaneously. Ashley Happen. It's both as you say it's both the horror but also the sense of the feeling that you have towards beloved of wanting to wanting to love her wanting to mother I'm wanting to is at the same time. I'm going to read the blur yet from the back of the film tie in edition the issue with Oprah Winfrey. It's Jonathan Demme's Johnson. It is the mid eighteen eighteen hundreds at sweet home in Kentucky. An ear is ending a slavery comes under attack from the ABOLITIONISTS. The worlds of Halle and pull cul de ought to be destroyed in a cataclysm of torment and agony the world of Sethar. However is the term from one of love to one of violence and death. The death of Cephas baby beloved whose name is the single world on the tombstone who died at her mother's hands and who will return to claim retribution retribution. Wow thank you very I facing society. It actually says whose name is the a single world on the tombstone so it's not even GonNa copy edited that's three and a half to four out of ten blurb swear on his airway because it was fucking old but I mean just going back to this idea. Reversal the reversal. She affects very easily through language sweet home. Is this save tation that the that the characters in this novel off have fled and we catch up with them decades later when when they've they've had more tumor in their lives that obviously as police as it wasn't sweet and it certainly wasn't home so all the time in every way she subverting these ideas of what we think and of course the idea the sweetness absolutely connects to sugar which is the great colonial colonial slave product so which could not have happened without slave ships the slave ship. which is the books that was from you know if you have if you've seen that impressive cross-section horrific cross section of the slave ship the brooks very famous just sales through this tax folks all the way like a haunting? It's a history of place haunting and time hunting and bodies and that have already suffered traumatic violence. It's delicious. The here's a clip of Tony Morrison talking about most of these clips taken from an amazing nineteen nineteen ninety two interview that she did with Charlie rose for when jazz came under novel Jazz and this is a this is a clip about how how it was to to Royce about slavery and the slave trade slavery stuff was terrible because it's not it's one thing to sort of know historically abstract conceptually generally what it was like but imagining that lie which is sort of intermediate very fundamentally is very very difficult for me and the only thing that made it really possible to stay there. Was this little things. It's knowing that you couldn't see your husband in the daytime only at night only when the son was sacked those people worked from sunup to sundown the only only that made it possible for me was thinking well. I didn't have to do it. I just had to imagine it. Site can't be too self-regarding in in precious about all that if they could do it. I could write about it. I get tough analogy. You pretty booked with you by Toni Morrison Person. She was talking about a company to yourself regarding and you've robocalled the source of self regard which is the US tart for booklets available in the U. K. As love food blog right yes this is the nearest edition of selected essays speeches and meditations that Tony Morrison has made and there's a few paragraphs in which I have a sort of manifesto for myself and in many ways I think it's important for me to say that why beloved meant so much to me not just because of the brilliance of the language but because it reversed the gates I grew up in a very in a in a small town on the white outside of a small town had an Indian population but it was on the other side of town and there's a clause aspect to that it was like lower middle-class new build a state where I grew up in a man on the other the side I was the the working class Indian but when I was at school I was very much a minority and to read this book was was like having permission to realize that was another side to myself because it was the nearest access one hut to thinking talking about how you could claim your own story. It is so powerful because part of the message of the book is that this language can allow allow for critique of racial difference it must make a critique of racial difference and so here is Toni Morrison talking about some of those things it's Mitch Optical the trouble with Paradise. I want to begin my meditation on the trouble with Paradise with some remarks on the environment in which I work and in which many writers also work the construction of race `and hierarchy have a powerful impact on expressive language Justice Figurative Interpretive Language impact powerfully on the construction of a racial racial society the intimate exchange between the atmosphere of racism and the language that asserts raises manipulates or transforms it is it is unavoidable among fiction writers who must manage to hold and unblinking gaze into the realm of difference and so it's that unblinking gaze that can be done so lyrically in this book which really is just something that WanNa spy as to as a writer. Ah I think one of the things that is interesting about Tony Morrison as a writer novelist about beloved as well picking up on what you were saying. There is the way that her project is attempting to reverse black guys walling gauging with the literary Canon at the same time Ryan's. Yes very exciting. I mean for me. This is absolutely modernist misspoke and its modernist because it uses it's sort of experimental in that sort of reverse fault faulkner a love it and you know it's. It's many voices in it. It's got its sort of poetic figurative language. It is not something that you can categorize post colonial novel or slavery novel belongs folks in Canon of Modernism Modernism declarable movement and this is absolutely party that great point really. I've got the last the ending of as by it's review when this was published in the UK is by reviewed it and she said she she describes it. As she says this noble gave me nightmares and yet I sat up late paradoxically smiling to myself with intense pleasure at the exact beauty of the singing pros it's an American masterpiece and one which moreover in a curious way reassesses all the major novels of the time in which it is set. That's true it's Melville Hawthorne Poe wrote Riddling allegories about the nature of evil the hunting of unappeased spirits the inverted opposition of blackness and Whiteness Tony Morrison has with planes and grace ice and terror and judgment solve the riddle and showed us the world which haunted bears printed. I that is over peace with Turkey Morrison's lectures which were collected a book called playing in the dog which he said if you ever read this these sorts of this incredible investigation of particularly Ernest Hemingway saying what defines hemingway's Ming wise work and many White Royces K. through as well is the inability to look at the black element of the society in which they were. I think it's moral fading I actually think it's immoral failing and unethical fading and for writers. It's an aesthetic failing not to do that and you know this book is about something for young women which we just don't let enough for Young Black Black Women Brown women women of colors. We are now known no ourselves as in a wider world that you are your own best thing. It is such a powerful sentence. It is such an exact sentence to say down a lineage of violence. That's been perpetrated traded on the body of the women of color. You are your own best thing and there's a wholeness to that so it's actually very hopeful book. I think we have ten yards and commenting on you're finding out answers to these incredible questions that seem to me had never been put subtly and if they had been they had never the language had not manifested. I wanted the language to be what the question was I. I wanted the language to simply hold it. I started my career with the Blue Star of putting the entire pot on the first page. Wjr The whole story for you so the reader read the first page. He knows exactly what happened and if he turns the page is because he wants either to find find out how it happened. He loves the language and you hope for both of those now for both right right I mean are we just going to ten inches recalled play. If you'll allow me I'd like to meet for yourself guards and and this is what she talks about the aesthetics of what she's doing. I'm so powerfully she says I suppose I approached the politics versus art race versus assist aesthetics debate initially way an alchemist would looking for that combination of ingredients that turns dross into gold but there is no such formula Mila so my project became to make the historically raced weld inextricable from the autistic few that beholds it and in doing so encourage readings that dissect both which is to say I claim the right and the range of ownership to interrupt journalistic history with a metaphorical one and to impose on a rhetorical history and majestic one to read the world misread it right an unrated to enact silence and free speech. Wjr In short to do what all writers aspire to do. I wanted my work to be the work of disabling the art versus politics argument to perform the Union of Aesthetics and ethics at that is what she does in beloved June. When did you ask you. When did you first read it. I read it about twenty years ago. I read a lot of twentieth century. American male writers particularly absolutely what my rises reading Tony Ernie Morrison was the Fulton was the one that I was most interested in because he was I think he was modernised and he was what he did with form was so interesting and he is his language was but it was that moment when you realize that he would somebody doing something as well as altman but just the resonance and the the precision of her language what it was exactly what you're saying I can't go back now and read those writers tour's without Tony Without Maternity Morrison's voice in what Tony that's why for me I think she she is the most important riser of of the Second Second Half of the twentieth century to write a great modernist novel is not many people who've done it and and she's she's done at least three times beloved was the one the one I read first and then I when I read jazz when it came out and I've I've read some of Solomon but beloved is still the one that I go back to. I just might read a tiny little bit from allowed to you know what she can do and I love you know I'm always interested in how people use nature and relationship with the natural world in fiction. This is as good as I think. honestly gets in infection. This is after is has just given birth to the baby that that we later know as as Denver with with amy the white go helping the baby whimpered in south looked twenty inches of cord hung from its belly and it trembled in the cooling evening air amy raptor skirt around it and the wet sticky women clambered ashore to see what indeed God had in mind great sentence spoils of Blue fern growing in the holidays on the riverbank flow toward the water and silver blue lines hard to see unless you're in or near them lying right at the river's edge when the sun shots are loewen drained often they mistook for insects but they are sees in which the whole generation sleeps confident of a future and for a moment it is easy to believe each one has one will become all of what is contained in the spore will live at its days as planned this moment of certainty last no longer than that longer perhaps than the spore itself on a riverbank in the cool of summary evening to women struggled under a shower silvery blue. They never expected to you see each other again in this world and at the moment couldn't care less but they're on a summer night surrounded by blue and they did something together appropriately and in well a patroller passing would have sniggered to see to throw away people to lawless outlaws as slave and a barefoot white woman with unpaid hat. Ah wrapping a ten minute old baby in the racks they will but no paint roller came and no preacher the water sucked and swallowed itself beneath them. There was nothing to disturb them at their work so they did it appropriately and well exclusionary descriptions of what Sisterhood should be I've ever read. It doesn't matter about race. It doesn't matter about background who's free and WHO's unfree spoils sports generations to write about nature. Yes the whole that whole thing about having a plan which is central inch to the book everything. You won't fiction to everything you want. You hope it can do ever that what you're saying about the art politics the sixth thing that she was writing about that that she can dissolve that into into into language like this into storytelling this. I think he's worth making the point as well. The when beloved was first published it was perceived as being an important book Toni Morrison's Best Book if you look at the reviews at the time that they are l. mostly extremely positive describe as mouthpiece as we pull away from it. Though you think you can see the the effects of this novel you know for a classic to be a classic. We can debate. What makes classic you you know what's interesting about this as you can see that it has a political and social effect the ripples beyond the literary world you know it takes on properties and qualities that one would aspire to as a Roy Sir who has set set herself that project but to watch it go out in the world and change the historical narrative of the historical view of slavery which is unquestionably beloved has done. Is An amazing social achievements says amazing but it is. Also you know when when you were talking about Faulkner's thing he no. I haven't read faulkner actually to be honest and it's not a it's not something I'm going to seek out. I I will eventually but I would never think she's doing as what is folk ner. I would always think is this is Terry Morrison. That's my center the more anti she makes but yet Morrison would put herself in that lineage as if to say. Why shouldn't I do the right so this is what I mean about her work. Being a literary project as much as a social project stopped point Antonio Violent makes exa about the re writing the novels of the Great American novels written by White Men in the nineteen th century that's quite a thing to take on to Wrestle Melville and win ploy to someone he wrote in lots of ways in which her centering her self on her to think she wanted to say and the way she sees the world in in this book inspired me not not just sort of she is a tree in a way thank the tweet it said writers. Doing things want to descend things can take takes strength from can shelter from in the that. She's that she's put down have have yielded so much. This is Toni Morrison talking about the what the starting point for beloved was. What was the seed of beloved. The question was cou is the beloved who is the a person who lives insiders those the one you can trust who was best thing you are in that instant for that segment because because I had planned several books around that theme it was the effort of a woman to love her children to raise children to be responsible for her children and the fact that it was doing slaving made all of those things impossible for her and there was this interesting historical incident you know the Marg regarded Gonda story in which that actually happened there was a great deal of enshrined in order to prevent her from living a life. She believes it'd be intolerable. But that's her clean kind of control as she was trying to exercise in order to be simply a mother and that the best I think she was was this lovely child or these children and of course that set her on very complicated self destructive attorney but the question was still there and the answer is the other question. That's delivered is when somebody asks her. Oh Oh tells her no. No you are your best. You are which is what you were saying. It's amazing but when I listened to that I'm actually thinking about something else which I have Moldova in the last two three years and it's interesting to me that this book cuza quote from Oprah Outrage on the buck because the things happen to these women these women who have been enslaved are a true fact act that women's babies were taken away from them that they were used as ways of making families they didn't say in how they were to bring up their children absolutely absolutely horns safer and that's why she is so determined to do what she does so no one else will wade had children. I like to say something if I may about and so when we do about listed I normally try and read or reread the we're talking about by also read at least one other book by the author because because I cannot not have this opportunity we have the opportunities to just steep ourselves for fortnight in arises work so I read the Bluest only for the first time I read Song of Solomon and Subaru as well and I read the the Blue Vest on might wish to the blue. I'm glad talking about beloved because it's fantastic and we're and is so rich for discussion but what's incredible about in watching how Morrison develops as a novelist is and she doesn't publish till she's he's thirty nine forty that she says she has been editor. is this something nothing really visceral about. The Blue is star. We talked about Gail Jones and her nor correggio door on about listed last year we search will Tony Morrison editor Correggio the difference nobles but they have a similar kind cloning of energy about the need to be born actually if the bluest was published on its own and she'd never have done anything else will still be a really significant book the difference in craft between the bluest which is almost like kind of Pinta vomiting of that something needed to be said by the time you get to beloved. She's become this incredibly sophisticated narrative storyteller storyteller. Just let's get on the record the opening paragraph the bluest because as a pros is it hard to beat. This is how this book Stoltze nuns go boy has gone as lost I am I thought even the rest of the pirate off right but anyway nuns go by is quite as lost and drunken men with it's sober is sitting in the lobby of the Greek Hotel Moreau's Revilla Nucci our next to a friend who lives above her father's cafe sits in nineteen insist buick eating bread and butter. She rolls down the window to tell my sister freedom may that we can't come in we stare at her wanting in her bread but more than that wanting to poke the arrogance out of her eyes and smash the pride of ownership the curls her chewing mouth when she comes out out of the car we will beat her up make red marks on her white skin and she will cry and ask us. Do we want her to pull her pants down. We will say yeah. I know we don't know what we should feel do if she does but when ever she asks us we know she's offering something precious and that our own pride. Loyd must be asserted by refusing to accept. That's just the opening of the book a book incidentally that still appears every year in the top ten list of books novels schools in the United States America. We're trying to better yeah well because there is something so subversive about a project of love like this and I feel like all of her work. Is this project. A to make us heal wounds to make us be honest about our interconnectedness and our histories. It is such a subversive project to say this. A heart is a story about love but I I'm going to make you feel pain and the pain that you're responsible for society and in yourself. We have a clip pair. I think this is the last one this is clip number five now. This is quite long but stick with everyone is just been asked. You've won the Nobel Prize for fiction. Do you still encounter encounter racism and the issues of race in your life. Yes I do Charley but let me tell you. That's the wrong question. And how do you feel not you charlie were but don't you understand that the people who do this thing who practice racism awesome are bereft. There is something distorted about the psyche. It's a huge waste and it's a corruption shen and a distortion. It's like it's a profound roses that nobody examines for what it is. It feels crazy. It is crazy and it leaves. It has just as much of a deleterious effect on white people and possibly equal. There's people I always knew that I had the moral high ground all my life. I always thought those people who said I couldn't come in the drugstore and I had to sit in his place that could go in the bar and I saw knew that I knew that they were inferior to me morally. I always thought that my parents always thought that but if if the racist white person I don't mean the person who is examining his consciousness listen so on doesn't understand that he or she is also a race. It's also constructed. It's also made and it also has some Kinda service ability but when you take it away a take your race away and there you are all strung out and all you got is your little self and and what is that. What are you without racism. I I still strong still smart. You still like yourself. I mean these these are the questions it's part of it. Is Yes the victim. How terrible is fit for black? I'm not a victim. I refuse to be one. A few can only be tall because somebody's on their knees then you have a serious problem and my feeling is white people have a very very very serious problem and they should start thinking about what they can do about it. Take me out of it. Then give white people some free advice all in my books this question his his who thinks of themselves as superior why how this works undermined security and showed up to be this fragile oil veneer is so easily broken by a confidence of self hurt of Corsi of owning a space because you can an e should that is something that it's you if we could only teach our young people that if if I had had that and I got it from these books you know it wasn't lost on me that everywhere I went the people who were Brown with doing the serving and the people who were teaching doing that with the white ones the ones on television or all of those things and what does cut due to your sense of self in world. How do we begin to understand that if you were thinking your superior someone someone else is thinking that you're not if someone says to me. Oh you know you're the you're the token person here yeah and that does happen to me. I think okay that mean t wall to it's as simple as that you simply can't have a token person without everyone else that being a token person to being there because of their race and their identities entities simply doesn't affect me. It's because at the end of the day I have language Kiosk Kushner sniff of year. Do you think this right. We feel don't we that. Tony Morrison articulates something that had needed to be articulated for longtime on how much of that is her era being channel through her and how much is her her and her personality deeming era sort of when she was writing these books and certainly when I read Song of Solomon that felt like so I can know from the nineteen seventies it has a certain kind of magical realist thing going on which fields obits or in a way beloved doesn't I have to say but I'm wondering fishy comes up through the kind of the the era of the mid to late sixties civil unrest in the states she she she has a great success with an amazing book called the Blackbird in nine hundred seventy four which she edited which is a collection of clippings and writings do the identity of black Americans up to that point and I. I'm wondering how much of her is her success success. He's not her. Importance is as a productivity era and how much is of her personality force of personality housing what it takes an enormous amount of strength to be the person that people want to support. I mean who is who who is deciding what is success and I'm what is significant. That is the brought that she's trying to always break here. That is the kind of disease that she's always trying to show itself to itself self because if your society is trained to believe that only this kind of writing it's in this kind of history category of high art it then you know and you have to be this incredibly strong person to say. Actually I'm doing my thing and you can take or leave it. The center will come to me and I had confidence in in your own voice in your own well. Can you earn right to do you're doing like he said she started writing thirty nine forty so so take a long time for her to to begin to work into the world and she was already working in publishing she she says a brilliant thing winging somewhere about how the sense which she's channeling jazz she's telling jazz both in the the musicality of the pros she says but also had jazz foam the carries. American blackness within need even though there's good jazz in Japan she says yeah and that's what she wants her writing and by extension black American rising to be and so does it matter what a jazz critic who is from not that background or even is from that background but his thinking in different ways thinks of the jaws. Does it really matter no. She says it doesn't she she says because because it carries it has not been compromise. I came back to this. Burton and the other books are tiny Morrison a bread before foolish upside thinking it's so it's such a pleasant change on buses to have something that is so so undeniably great that he hasn't been neglect right. Yeah I mean we talk about but but this is this is the force of this is couldn't be back right choice as three but I think what what the product of her work is trying to say. Is that we she liked again with these reversals and undermining in the book she says an at times through the book this is not a story to pass on because she wants the story to be passed on so everything has to be taken in double double and he's also making a river and she's also making a tree and he's also making world and that should be populated by writers who were doing similar things not just one. Tony Morrison who is raising Tony Morrison then she wants us to populate this world with stories that had not been told that have not been heard edge she saying don't shut the door on these voices again and that's why we must leave wiser chastened reminded of Ubuntu Great Arts full all of questions full of questions deep and heartfelt thanks to preach for choosing such a great book to the keeper of Sounds Nikki Birch and to unbound host patron. You can download all ninety four of our shows plus fully linked clips and suggestions for further reading by visiting our website battling. Fm and you can contact just on twitter facebook and boundless and before you do that feel free sleeves review in June's makes us happy and happiness. is something nothing to cling to all. I didn't write like sold sold it very well. Thank you for listening. We'll be back in the front line hello.

Tony Ernie Morrison Toni Morrison writer John Young Roy US Solomon UK Guernsey John Gail Jones Victor Hugo India publisher faulkner pain Europe Andy Miller John Mitchelson Porac O'Donnell
Remembering Toni Morrison

Fresh Air

49:46 min | 1 year ago

Remembering Toni Morrison

"This message comes from n._p._r. Sponsor xfinity some things are slow like a snail races. Other things are fast like xfinity x. by get get fast speeds even when everyone is online working to make wifi simple easy awesome more at xfinity dot com restrictions apply from w._h._y._y. In philadelphia this is fresh air. I'm david being cooley in for terry gross. Today we remember tony morrison the nobel prize laureate in literature and and pulitzer prize winning author of beloved song of solomon tar baby jazz and other novels as in children's books. She was known for her precise poetic prose. Her books drew from the black oral tradition african american folktales in the ghost stories. She was told as a child when she was young. There were few black characters n. books and when they did occur there's a kind of embarrassment a kind of a need to skip over those parts in say being in the tenth grade eight in reading uncle tom's cabin or seeing children's books in which was it sambo i mean you know these kinds of things. Any sort of politely erase ace them from your consciousness will listen back to excerpts from three of our interviews with her remembering. Tony morrison on today's fresh air today show is devoted to tony oni morrison one of the most celebrated writers of our time who died monday. She was eighty eight years old morrison pulitzer prize for fiction in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight for her novel. Oh beloved about a former slave looking back on her life. After the civil war in nineteen ninety-three she became the first african american woman to win the nobel prize for literature in two thousand twelve president obama awarded morrison the nation's highest civilian honor the presidential medal of freedom and in twenty fifteen. She won the lifetime achievement award from the national book critics circle today. We're going to feature three of toni morrison's conversations with terry gross covering three different decades. The most recent is from two thousand fifteen. When tony morrison published god help the child another is from nineteen ninety two the year she wrote her novel called jazz. Yes and we're going to start with the earliest of the three an interview from nineteen eighty-seven when she had just written beloved the novel for which she won the pulitzer prize beloved is set in eighteen seventy three after the civil war. It's about escaped and emancipated slaves who were trying to build new lives but are haunted by the past the main character sethi lives with the ghost of her two year old baby girl sethi slit her baby's throat eighteen years earlier rather rather than let her be recaptured into slavery. Her ghost is known as beloved the one word that was printed on her tombstone. Tony morrison told terry sorry how she prepared herself emotionally to write about slavery. I always suspected that i didn't have the emotional stability to live in that world for the three or four years however long it would take to examine it so i did it. <hes> i suppose the way they did <hes> <hes> which was a little bit of time because if you start out to write a book about slavery you're probably already lost because it's big and it's long and you discover how long two hundred years is <hes> <hes> not five years not ten two hundred so that you have to have a anchor or mooring and the mooring is a group of characters who are caring about very deeply but you couldn't tell yourself. I couldn't tell myself that i was is writing a book about slavery because it would have i would have drowned in that. I think there have been a lot of books and movies that have actually really trivialized sized slavery <hes> or where slavery becomes the backdrop for you know a romantic story or something like that. Did you feel in advance of descending down to write this book that there were certain traps that you had to avoid an order to really get to the truth of the experience yeah <hes> i think that was part of the fear <hes>. I'm trying to avoid the routine treatment. You and i'm included in this group. Everybody thinks you sort of know all about it <hes> but until you project into it <hes> most of the information is is <hes> so sensational so exotic so alien in so pathological that that it's difficult to grasp and the fact is that most slaves stories that focus on the slaves focus on them as the pathological ones and never focus on the pathology in which they live and in which they are exercising ising everything they know about being human in order to maintain that position so that the trivial treatments of make of of sleep stories sometimes written and sometimes filmed is as though this was the kind of <hes> as you say scene in which other things of infinitely more interesting then the lives of the slaves as we're going on. I think a lot of <hes> children who grew up in families families of <hes> holocaust survivors or <hes> families in which there's there's you know history in a history of of slavery someplace get almost parables toll to them about what could happen and why you have to live life a certain way to protect yourself against certain certain evils and how you have to rise above the horrors that were inflicted on on your grandparents or whatever did you did. You get lectures like that from your parents parents no i didn't. I got other messages from them which were much more valuable because those are very negative. The ones you just re sited. <hes> i mean it's undue burdens is though i am somehow responsible for <hes> all of that what they did which i found really quite healthy was they assumed without ever articulating it that we were <hes> capable able and quite bright and in some way morally superior to those who had degraded themselves by trying to degrade us. They seem to feel that you know the rich people are there were white people that were wicked people who really had a lot of answering to do for themselves and we were not like that so i always felt very special <hes> i've always felt for purposes. Says of xenophobia doesn't work but i always thought that we were on a higher plane than other people not because there was fear out there they're not because white people could make me into something less because they never believed that was the case what they could do would be to kill me on main amy whether you're never made me have be without quality and that was so much a part of my upbringing and everybody else i knew in that town on we were very very poor. People that i it took me years to be able to articulate what it was that made me feel like i belonged in in this place and it was this rather than giving me all these sort of <hes> sermonizing about tower in other words. I was not afraid you hit a lot of self respect yeah. That's what this song but it wasn't you must have. I hear people say you lost somebody. You really are good. Yeah all right and then people say oh yeah within. Maybe a possibility that i'm not but these they they were not surprised at its superior work. We the first person in your family to go to college no really i don't uncle who went to ohio state so it wasn't a big symbolic symbolic thing for us. It was a big economic brothel for me to go and shaky money being so scarce that <hes> my mother took a job to help out my father had to and more often than not three jobs in order to take care of us but i remember them saying look we can guarantee you one year after that lucy lucy so i went away feeling very blessed about the fact that there was a year available to me but not ever believing that i would have a second. Can you be able to pay for a second year and i also worked but you know things are very different than tony morrison speaking speaking to terry gross in one thousand nine hundred seven the year her novel beloved was published. It would win the pulitzer prize for fiction after a break. We'll hear tony morrison read from her novel jazz from another conversation between her and terry this one from nineteen. Ninety-two this is fresh air. This message comes from n._p._r. Sponsor each raid investing your money shouldn't require moving mountains no matter how much or how little experience you have each raid makes investing simple along with great value oh you they provide the tools and support you need to navigate the markets all to help your money work hard for you for more information visit each raid dot com slash n._p._r. We are e-trade securities l._l._c. member sipc. We're remembering raider. Toni morrison who died monday at the age of eighty eight terry gross spoke with her again in one thousand nine hundred to about her novel jazz her sixth novel and her first book since beloved jazzy said in harlem in nineteen twenty six and is about african americans who moved from the rural south to the urban north. It's also about love jealousy. Violence and aging a woman named violet finds out her husband has been having an affair with a younger woman whom he has killed at her funeral. Violet takes revenge on the corpse. Here's tony morrison morrison reading from the opening. I know that woman she's to live with a flock of birds on lenox avenue no her husband to he fell for an eighteen year old girl. One of those deep down spooky loves that made him so sad and happy he shot her just to keep the feeling going. When the woman her name is violet went to the funeral to see the girl and to cut her dead face they threw it to the floor and out of the church she ran into all that snow and when she got back to her apartment took the birds from their cages and set them out the windows to freeze or fly including the parrot that said i love you the snow she ran through with so windswept. She left no footprints in it so for time. Nobody knew exactly where on lenox avenue she lived but like me. They knew who she was who she had to be because they knew that her husband joe trace was the one who shot the girl. There was never anyone to prosecuting because nobody actually saw him. Do it and the dead girls aren't didn't want to <hes> throw money to helpless lawyers or laughing cops when she knew the expense wouldn't improve anything besides she found out that the man who killed internees cried all day and for him and for violent that is as bad as jail tony morrison reading from her her new novel jazz. You know the the woman who cuts the face of the dead woman. <hes> a character later says to to the woman who who does the cutting. I don't understand women like women with knives. Do you understand women with knives kind of crimes of passion like that not entirely early. I think part of the reason i was interested in the story and in that period was some way to figure out <hes> the impulses for you're violence as sort of notion of solution and how it plays into notions of license and freedom so it was a quest really on on my part. I'm not quite sure. I understand that kind of excess. Was there a particular crime that you wanted to understand or a particular woman with with a knife who you wanted to understand. The woman i really wanted to understand was darcus. <hes> the young girl who is based on a historical figure actually a young girl who died in harlem at party shop by her lover with a silencer and who refused used to let anybody help her because she wanted to give him time to get away and waited so long that she bled to death that was extremely provocative to me that kind of romance that probably is representative of song that young wow her acceptance of his violence the way in which a young girl or woman deals with assault under certain circumstances stances and certain ears and periods. What's the closest. You've seen to this in real life. I've never seen any other. I i mean i don't i had seen it or participated in it. I probably wouldn't be so interested in writing about it but <hes> it was sort of outside. I wanted to own personal experience that is compulsive no family legends or neighborhood legends from when you were growing up not about women about out men yes <hes> who were championed because of their endurance and their response to violence associated with them but the women even that i knew were <hes> <hes> i suppose in a manner verbally able to deflect violence. There's there's a passage in jazz about the kind of women who needed a certain kind of protection. There were those who had <hes> raises taped to do their hands. There were those who are willing to boil <hes> lie and those who are willing to put ground glass food but there is a secondary passage acids which explains what a large majority of black women did in terms of trying to protect themselves the church. The club movement the acquisition of property <hes>. I think the line goes any black woman in nineteen. Twenty six did not share some of those protective protective gestures was silent or crazy or dead tony mars and is my guest. You have the sense in your algiers of people coming to harlem. We're coming to the city and feeling more like themselves. They're more like the people they always believed. They were is the way you you put it. That's obviously something we're really interested in developing story just what what it meant physically emotionally for people move to move moved to the city <hes> you must have stories about that in your in your family history though i do yes that move from the rural areas where i think in literature sometimes we romanticize into the freedom of the countryside you know the sort of ability to commune with nature and b. ones <hes> <hes> transcendent self and there is that <hes> mythos in richard and there's an accompanying one which is the freedom of a city on the one enhanced certain kind of anonymity but more particularly for an especially for african americans it was moving into an area where there were so many of you you could see yourself in your number and there was a certain kind of protection in that as well as some license also it was. I don't know the idea of a city as being a place where there is a mix where there are many classes many kinds of the people and however eccentric you are there. Are you know at least a hundred other people who are eccentric in precisely the same way so that one has solitude solitariness individuality and community in a city. What would you sheriff us. One of your parents migration stories yes <hes> i think one of the ones that i remember best with when my mother's parents left left the south left alabama <hes> my grandmother's husband my grandfather had gone to a large city <hes> to earns some money playing the violin as a matter of fact and she was alone on their farm with these children who were very very young. I think my mother was five five and there was some danger about it was the time when a woman alone with several children was <hes> kind of target and her words were that when she noticed white boys beginning to circle that house she had to leave immediately so she sent word to her husband to my grandfather by by somebody who was on route to tell him that she would be on exchan- at x. time and that <hes> if she wanted if he wanted to see them again he should be there and so they left in the middle of the night <hes> in the middle of the night because there's always debt in that sort of share cropping situation that most most <hes> post-reconstruction black people found themselves and and <hes> went to birmingham and got on the train and as the train pulled out there was no papa and the chiltern all began to cry and a few miles outside the city he appeared hurt but he hadn't felt that he could show himself at the station and get on with them because they were escaping that cycle of debt. You know that round that you never really escape because you know the commissary of the general store you need for the feed and that takes the crops etc so it was a happy <hes> event for them and then the subsequent stops on that route to where they were headed looking for work for mines that we're asking for laborers for mills for women who could work in service is an interesting and very typical story and the ended up on the shores source of lake erie where i was born in ohio. Yes what was lorraine like when you were growing up what kind of neighborhood <hes> we're we're. We're you growing up in. It was an interesting place. I still think it's remarkable in that part of ohio and i think in a large and many of those states i never lived in a black neighborhood <hes> <hes> because what we were living in we're really just poor neighborhoods so that i grew up with all of the other immigrants who are coming to this country <hes> <hes> i'm thinking as i speak to you now the house where my mother lives <hes> at this moment and the people on the street are named her shack and golini and my mother are there any black woman named mrs ross and so on that's always been the case in that town because it was the steel town and people were coming from mexico from eastern in europe from scandinavia from everywhere as well as black people coming to these centers just after world war one and someone in some instances before in order to find work so we had a kind of town that was <hes>. I don't know all the ideals there are probably purely rhetorical existed in that little town however everybody whether they were polish people or what what they used to call slovenes in those days <hes> had their own halls churches and <hes> you know family life that was not mixed. You know you didn't exchange on those areas in those days but this one high school four junior high schools and we all went to the same school so what was the african american cultural center was at the church or was it something else the church absolutely the church part of it was sunday part of it was sunday school but a lot of it was taking taking care of each other and what i remember most is the impetus and the necessity for my mother and her friends and for all of us to take food to people who need it or to go oh clean somebody's house if they were bedridden <hes> all sorts of chores are taken for granted when people got old they didn't have a place for for them to go and if their families were indigent or couldn't take care of them that was the responsibility of the women of the church or of the neighborhood it was just a constant constant distant <hes> part of one's life. I think in the bluest eye recorded something similar that really happened which is my sister and and i would sleep in the same bed and we might wake up and there might be a child next to us. Somebody who was in difficulty or the parent was set or gone and women in the neighborhood take them in and there might be some children living with his you know two weeks or months or what have you you know kind of violation of <hes> what everybody seems to sink is important which is intimacy and privacy but at the same time it was kind of sharing of <hes> other of responsibility social responsibilities was we never no one ever talked about it and said you know you ought to be responsible member of society but everything people did was like that in your new book of literary criticism playing in the dark you write about how until recently american readers there's were assumed to be white and you wonder what that assumption has meant to the literary imagination in america. Were you when you started reading. Were you conscious of <hes> <hes> reading books in which there were <hes> few if any black characters no i was conscious of of there being a sort of disruption in some books when black people did occur and there was a kind of embarrassment a kind of a need to skip over those parts in say being in the tenth grade in reading uncle tom's cabin <hes> or seeing <hes> children's books in which <hes> was it sambo i mean you know these kinds of things and you sort of politely erase them from your consciousness until you get older and then when i became a writer i had to function in a language that was coded in a number of ways and and i had to work with those codes i didn't have access to some of the metaphors and shortcuts that say a white writer has who feels he or she is unraced. I and they can take for granted the centrality of their experience because it is white and they think that's on being without a race everybody anybody else has raised white people don't <hes> they could take for granted that kind of centrality and they could use cleverly <hes> brilliantly <hes> effectively or not as the case might be the presence of black people just as they frequently did the presence of women. It's sort of something you have in your kid so when you say that the language was coded. Let me get you to elaborate on the kind of code you felt you had to yeah cut through or work around <hes> using black women and men to appear in a scene scene for no reason other than to provide the tension that might suggest illegal sexuality or violence silence they have no other function except to define and to suggest <hes> these <hes> to be the association association of and you wonder why they there and they may never be picked up again to have <hes> classical american literature turn to need to establish virtue power and dominance over something and to need an obedient <hes> black person person or someone who loves you irrationally mark tweens. Jim is irrational. In that sense <hes> his i love is boundless and he's a grown man talking to children <hes> you i could not do that say with a white man who was an ex ex-convict. I i think it's fair to say that in most of your fiction there's really been very few significant white characters well. Yes yeah so <hes> how how does that relate to what you're talking about. Now about the you know about the code and all well in in a sense having having it would be silly for me to write or to concentrate on major wife derek does <hes> because i wasn't interested in it and also it destabilizes the <hes> pro the progress of the narrative in a way for example putting in a young black girl centerstage seemed to me a radical thing to do and nineteen sixty five when i first began writing the bluest eye once you begin to permit the reins of the narrative to be held by a major white person you lose the agency you lose the terrain <hes> the imaginative terrain because you may be forced into responding to a white presence oscilloscope examining what the interior lives of these people are without the constant need to explain to editorialize into fix so it was an enormous liberation for me and one that i find to be <hes> repeated a lot particularly in the work of of <hes> black women once you take take those people out then it's the whole world is available now for <hes> for one's own creativity but in a sense it's. It's all a little bit more real than that white. People were not central to my life. They were out there sort of on the edge sometimes wonderful all in enabling sometimes hostile and disabling but the heart of the life even in the town that i described was in our household in our family so that in the novels i wanted to in that sense <hes> not have characters who were always required to consistently think about what people were thinking it makes you reduce them in some sort of stereotypical typical way that you that i would shy away from but certainly i was interested in fascinated by and <hes> so thrilled by a number of minor figures that is secondary figures enabling figures in who are white such as amy denver in <hes> beloved who is not required to be a white person in that scene because she's not around any other white people so she can go ahead and be a person and also she does something that almost never happens if ever in american fiction which is to have a white person touch a a black person with some motive other than sex or violence tony morrison speaking with terry gross in nineteen ninety-two after a break. We'll hear one more of terry's conversations with the celebrated author who died monday at age eighty eight. This one is from just four four years ago in two thousand fifteen. When tony morrison published what would be her last novel. God help the child. This is fresh air support for fresh air and the following message come from rocket mortgage by quicken loans. Imagine how it feels to have an award winning team of mortgage experts make the home buying process smoother for you with a history of industry leading online lending technology rocket mortgage is changing the game visit rocket mortgage dot com slash fresh air equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states in m._l._s. consumeraccess dot org number thirty thirty rocket mortgage by quicken loans push-button get mortgage <music>. What do all of these people haven't common kamla harris. Keep food adjudge and bernie sanders. They're all running for president and they've all sat down with us on on the n._p._r. Politics podcast appeals gonna drive me crazy. We are going out on the trail with as many of the democratic presidential candidates as we can bring you in depth interviews with them. Come along by subscribing to the n._p._r. Politics podcast in two thousand fifteen at the age of eighty four tony morrison wrote a new novel called god. God help the child which would be the last one published in her lifetime. She died monday at the age of eighty eight. God help. The child begins with the line. It's not not my fault. Those words are spoken by an african american woman explaining that she has no idea why she gave birth to such a dark skinned baby. The mother is embarrassed by her daughters darkness and wants to distance herself. The daughter is scarred by not having her mother's love. The novel is about those childhood wounds that leave a lasting mark even into adulthood tony morrison welcome back to fresh air. I'd like to start by asking muted. Do a reading from your new novel so this is from very early in the novel where sweetness the mother who is light skinned african american is was talking about how shocking and upsetting it was to give birth to a daughter with very dark skin as she describes it midnight black sudanese black so would you pick up from there with the reading sure i hate to say it but from the very beginning in the maternity ward the the baby lula an embarrassed me her birth skin was pale like all babies even african ones but it changed fast. I thought it was going crazy when she turned blue black right before my eyes i know i want crazy for a minute because once it's just for a few seconds. I held a blanket over her face and pressed but i couldn't do that. No matter how how much i wished she hadn't been born but that terrible caller i even thought of giving her away to an orphanage someplace and i was scared to be one of those mothers who put their babies church steps recently. I heard about a couple in germany any why s snow who had a dark skinned baby. Nobody could explain twins. I believe one white one colored but i don't know is true. All i know is that for me. Nursing her was like having a picket any sucking deed route. I went to bottle feeding soon as i got home. My husband lewis is a porter and when he got back off the rails he looked at me like i was really crazy and looked at her like she was from the planet jupiter. He wasn't cussing man so when he said god damn what the hell is this. I knew we were in trouble. That's what digit what caused the fights between me him. It broke our marriage to pieces. We had three good years together but when she was born he blamed me and treated lula and like she was a stranger more than that an enemy he never touched her. I never did convince him that. I ain't never ever fooled around with another man. He was did sure sure. I was lying. We are to argued till i told him her blackness be from his own family not not my that's tony morrison reading from her new novel. God help the child so the mother this's herself from the daughter because of the daughters orders dark skin the father leaves thinking this child must not be his because he too is lighter skin and that's that's the whole story in motion and i'm wondering why you chose <hes> color you know the the level of blackness as the central part of the story well. I wanted to separate color from embrace. <hes> distinguishing color light black inbetween as the marker her for race is really an hour. It's socially constructed. It's culturally enforced. I edit has some advantages for certain people but this is really <hes> skin privilege <hes> the ranking of color in terms of its closeness to white people white skinned people and it's devaluation according to how dr corneas and the impact that has on people who are dedicated to <hes> the privileges of certain levels of skin color so were there times in your life when you've been exposed to that kind of <hes> hierarchy of color within the african american community i have. I didn't have it until i went away to college. I didn't know there was this kind of preference but i noticed <hes> n addition to the outside world of washington d. c. Which at that time this is ninety ninety four point nine nine hundred fifty. There were very obvious stated written differences between what white people were able able to do and what black people were able to do but on the campus were. I felt safe and welcome. I began to realize that this idea of the lighter the better and the darker the worse was really <hes> an had an impact on sororities on friendships on all sorts of things and it was stunning to me and you went to a traditionally african american college howard university. Yes there's a new york magazine cover story about you recently gently and in that article you described when you were young witnessing your father throw white man down the stairs because your father thought this man and was coming up the stairs after his daughters. Was your father afraid that this man was coming to abuse you and your sisters. I think he thought so. I think his own experience in georgia would have made him think that any white man bumbling up the stairs. He's toward our apartment was not there for any good and since we were little girls. He assumed that i think he made a mistake. I mean i really think the man was drunk. I don't think he was really trailing us but the interesting thing was a the white man was he survived. Be the real thing for me. Was i felt profoundly protected and defended i did i was not happy because after my father threw him down the steps all the way out into the street he he through our tricycle after that was a little bit of a problem since we needed her tricycle but that made me think i think that there was some devil terry something evil about white people which is exactly what my father thought he was very very serious in his hatred of white people what mitigated it was my mother other who is exactly the opposite who never rejected or accepted anybody based on race or color or religion take any of that. Everybody was an individual whom she approved or disapproved of based on her perception of them as individuals take. You said that this incident made you feel protected. It sounds terrifying though for two reasons one is that your father basically gave you idea that this man was coming upstairs to do harm and to watching your father not only through him downstairs throwing your tricycle down the stairs after after him. It sounds like that would be a little frightening to see also well. It was my father who could do do no wrong so i didn't think of it. As oh look my father's violent man he never spanked us. He never unquote with us. He never argued with us. He was dedicated. He was sweet so he did this thing to protect his children think it must have been hard for your father to hate eight white people and to live in a neighborhood in which does a lot of white people well. You know my father saw two black. Men lynched act on his street in carterville george as a child and i think seeing two black doc businessmen not vegas hanging from trees as a child was traumatic for him. If you're just joining us my guest is toni morrison and she has a new novel called. God help the child. The main characters birth name is lula and bridewell months. She's sixteen. She changes it to end bride. Two years later. She changes it to one name bride and she's in the fashion world in the cosmetics swirl severi signature kind of name to have names very important in your fiction. There's often people people often have nicknames uh-huh and <hes> i i'm interested in hearing about why names have such <hes> real and symbolic importance importance in your stories was the whole history i think in naming <hes> in the beginning of black people being in this country they we lost the name and they were given names by their masters and so they didn't have names and they began to call one another other. You know decades later by nicknames. I don't think i knew any of my father's friends male friends by the real name i remember them only by their nicknames and also there was a honesty. Sometimes the names were humiliating deliberately so somebody would pick out your flaw. If you were a little to call you shorty and if you were angry they would call you the devil i remember a man who was called jim the dell always those three words have you seen the devil no no and then you think of the musicians <hes> satchmo louis armstrong what is saturated that satchel mouth or you think about them giving themselves royle names duke and count don't and king you know it's very personal identification trying to move away maybe abc from the history of having no name and then personalizing it one one hand to give you a name. That's embarrassing in in order to make you confronted deal with now and then later on more charming names move away from mm humiliating names like sexual so your birth name is khloe wofford marson. Was your married name when you're married but you you you've been divorced a long time since nineteen seventy four and tony was shortened from anthony which was the name when you were <hes> vent and so am i right in saying that you became a catholic when you were twelve. That's what i read e. I so so let's start with your name. Once you started being called tony. Did you feel different from being called khloe. I never felt like anything other than khloe. In oh my name khloe. Nobody could pronounce it properly outside my family in school. The teachers called me clo clo v we because it was spelled that way it's much more common now but i couldn't bear to have people mispronounced announced by name but the person i was was this person who is called khloe so then i go away away and the people in washington they don't know how to pronounce c._a. Jell o. e. so somebody mistakenly called me tony because she couldn't hear khloe so i said now so i don't care com you tony. It's easy you don't mispronounce by name and then i meant to put my maiden name came in the first book i wrote as a matter of fact by call the publisher and said oh by the way i don't want tony morrison to be on the ball and they said it's too late. They've already sent it to live of congress but i really would ahead preferred tony lawford tony morrison speaking with terry gross in two thousand fifteen more after a break. This is fresh air support for this n._p._r. Podcast and the following message come from curio collection by hilton with all curio collection by hilton hotels. There's something more to discover. Take the foodie forward resorts of silence goon in the maldives and the eager own hotel in spain eager ron's michelin starred chef diego guy iago's romances pilots highlights with multicultural and environmentally friendly dishes. Silence guna takes personalization to a new level by using natural ingredients to create unique nick plates for each guest. Are you curious visit hilton dot com slash n._p._r. Support for n._p._r. Comes from w._h._y._y. Presenting the pulse a podcast that takes you on adventures into unexpected corners of health and science plastic in the guts of deep sea creatures crying after after anesthesia building your own internet. Each episode is full of fascinating stories and big ideas the pulse available where you get your podcasts or at w._h._y._y. Dot org. Let's conclude our salute to author toni morrison who died monday at the age of eighty eight by returning to the interview she recorded with terry gross in twenty twenty fifteen so just one more question you. You didn't start writing till you're thirty nine forty because you didn't have the time or didn't didn't know you had it in you. Like what was the point in which you said i'm gonna write a novel what changed when i was teaching at a howard university after got her masters at cornell annouce gully my twenties and i joined a group of faculty and writers who met i think once a month to read to each other and critique doc each other so i brought to these meetings little things i had written for classes as an undergraduate and dan they had really good lunches really good food during these meetings but they wouldn't let you continue to it. Come if you're just reading old stuff so i had to think of something new if i was going to continue to have this really good food in really good company so i started writing and i remember very clearly that was writing was a pencil sitting on the couch writing with a pencil trying to think up something and remembering what i just described the tablet was that legal pad you know yellow with the lines and i had a baby. My over sun was barely walking and he spit up on the tablet and i was doing something really interesting. I think with the sentence because i wrote around the puke because i figured i could always wipe that. I might not get that sense. So i wrote a bit of that. I went to the meetings. They thought it was very interesting. Because this you know maybe five or six pages and they were very encouraging and then i left and i went to syracuse etcetera etcetera and in the mornings before my children were awake i would go back and finish that and then it took five years by the way to write that little book because i wasn't thinking about publishing. I was thinking about the narrative and i want to say so. That's really how got started tony morrison. Thank you so much for talking with us. I really appreciate it. You're very welcome tony morrison speaking to terry gross in two thousand fifteen. Today's show also featured terry's interviews with the celebrated author from nineteen ninety two and from nineteen eighty-seven tony morrison died monday. She was eighty eight <music> on monday. Show terry's guests will be sister helen prejean who wrote about ministering to men on death row in the book dead man walking at the age of eighty. She has a new memoir about her spiritual. She'll talk about entering the convent as a teenager celibacy and her work in social justice hope you can join us fresh. Air's executive producer is danny miller. Our technical director and engineer is audrey bentham with additional engineering support from joyce lieberman and jillian hurts. All our associate producer for digital media is molly seavy nesper. Roberta shorrock directs the show for terry gross. I'm david being cooling.

tony morrison morrison terry gross Toni morrison pulitzer prize ohio tony oni morrison lula morrison david harlem tom philadelphia president nobel prize howard university sethi lifetime achievement award Jim
Starlee Kine

10 Things That Scare Me

04:27 min | 2 years ago

Starlee Kine

"Did you know that ten things that scare me is a public media show? That means we rely on people like you to support everything we make Sakib tempting short sweet and weird by making a donation today at ten things podcast dot org slash donate. Listener support w in Weiss studios. I have no idea. This is the right format. But yeah. One never making any of my own work again. To never getting paid for my work again three number getting paid again for never having another crush five. Never being the object of another crush six the fear that even my using the word crush out of touch juvenile the crux of the whole problem. Seven dancing, eight singing nine the man I once on the subway eating a full tub of cream cheese like out of the tub. I'm losing track of these numbers aging being asked my opinion, number friends work. I didn't like out of the three truly terrifying. Images in film, hereditary Toni Collette floating in the attic scared me the most. Never being scared of any movie as I was when I was a kid break-up dreams. My ex's being happier. Without me. My ex's never thinking about me loss of meaning loss of purpose. Lhasa curiosity. My voice becoming gravelly walking up the stairs outside my apartment. One day and realizing I can't make the full climb walking. My dog up the stairs outside my apartment one day, and realizing my dog chemic- the full climb my own anger loneliness. My friends all coupling up and having kids, and I at a fear of being left behind combined with the N B. I feel starting to look for things to critique them about judge them for until I am nothing. But a critical judging shelve a person who they have every right to not take back on bite things thus fulfilling the prophecy that I myself set in motion. The apple store expensive pillows hipster stores in the airport wanting something I can have the death of cities read the internet having kids not having kids everything related to the environment power powerlessness mob mentality. Capitalism. Quality beauty uniqueness being things. Only for the rich class war. Among the old, the fate of everyone who isn't rich. There's an apple store that with put in in Williamsburg. And I feel like that really was the thing that changed at all. Like everything followed apple store, and I'm never seen an apple store that not in a mall that you can just like look through the windows while it's asleep. You know, so a night you can see the iphone charging, right? And it looks like an army of Dick's. I'm starlet kind. Neither ten things that scare me. The ten things team includes Amy Pearl Daniel game at Sarah sampack, Emily, teen polish human, Melissa -chusetts music and sound design by Isaac Jones. You know, what scares me if I get frozen like you get cryogenically frozen and then in the future when they unfreeze e they're like oh. What are you? Scared of tell us at ten. Thanks, podcasts dot org.

Toni Collette Sakib Isaac Jones Dick Amy Pearl Williamsburg Sarah sampack Emily One day one day
Midday News Brief for Tuesday, August 6th

WSJ Minute Briefing

01:26 min | 1 year ago

Midday News Brief for Tuesday, August 6th

"Are you hiring with indeed. You can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your short list of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today. Ed indeed dot com slash w. j. That's indeed dot com slash w. s. j. I'm j._r. waylon in the newsroom at the wall street journal in new york u._s. Stocks recovered somewhat in tuesday morning trading following monday's broad sell off which was triggered by heightened trade rhetoric with china the three major u._s. exchanges each each had risen about half a percent by midday. The trump administration imposed a total economic embargo against the government of venezuela this week. The move freezes all government assets and prohibits transactions with venezuela and it's the first action of its kind against the government in the western hemisphere in more than thirty years the u._s. Currently has similar alert embargoes in place against north korea iran syria and cuba an author and nobel laureate. Toni morrison has died at age eighty eight. She's perhaps best known for her works such as beloved and song of solomon which dramatized the pursuit of freedom within the boundaries of race in nineteen ninety-three morrison became the first black woman to win the nobel prize for literature. We more details on these stories and other news of the day at wsj.com and the w._s._j. App indeed used by over three million businesses for hiring post a job today at indeed dot com slash higher.

Toni morrison venezuela nobel prize wall street journal wsj.com solomon waylon Ed china north korea new york cuba thirty years
The Oprah Winfrey Show: Toni Morrison

Oprah's SuperSoul Conversations

39:29 min | 1 year ago

The Oprah Winfrey Show: Toni Morrison

"Today's episode is supported by the alliance for lifetime. Income annuities can offer a safeguard of protected monthly income for the rest of your life and provide security and peace of mind in retirement. The alliance for lifetime income is an organization dedicated to educating and raising awareness about how annuities consult retirement income needs because in complaining that includes protected monthly income solutions helps ensure. You'll never outlive your money in retirement. Find out if making annuities a vital component of your portfolio is the right choice voice for you. Learn more at retire your risk dot org. Today's episode is supported by state farm. State farm believes in strengthening communities with a challenge to allstate former employees and agents to give back with one hundred acts of good. The x. can be as small as giving a hug to a friend in need or as big as saving a beached whale. Well no matter how big or small the act it all counts towards a better community see how state farm employees are doing good at neighborhood of good dot com <music>. I'm oprah winfrey. Welcome to super soul conversations the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time taking time to be more fully present your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. Hello everyone earlier this week. We lost another legend author toni morrison when she passed away at eighty eight years old she was the first african american woman to win the nobel prize for literature. She influenced countless writers. There's and readers around the world. She was a master of words and had a profound impact on me. I was proud to choose four of her novels for my book club and interviewed her on the oprah show many times. We have an encore presentation of our interview about her very first book the bluest i it was after the show that i heard from women around the world who told me how color ism just like that depicted in the bluest eye impacted them people of color in many different cultures. It was during this show when tony gave one of the greatest lessons that i've loved to share she talked about children and how what children are really looking for is do your eyes light up your face light up when they enter the room. It's really that simple and the ultimate way validate them as human beings. I carry that lesson inside my spirit along with toni's remarkable gorgeous epoch works. Here's a look back and my interview with tony morrison and the bluest eye the world will miss her. I will miss her but thankfully we are left with. Her words. What you're going to hear is both powerful and wonderful and unforgettable book each night without fail. She prayed for bill is an unforgettable show. I remember spending months pressing housing on my skin just hoping that it would turn white and unforgettable author. He called wants blue eyes because in her world they represent beauty and and unforgettable insights when a kid walks in the room. Does your face light. Let your face speak what's in your heart our most profound book club show ever mm-hmm well. I love all the books we've done in the club. Obviously i have to read them and then shoes them. Some people love a lot of them. Some people don't but the bluest eye this month's election is so special to me. It is one of my all time favorites and i'll tell you why hi at the heart of the bluest eye is twelve europa cola breedlove who thought that she was so ugly. Nobody would possibly love her and regardless of what color you are there. There are a lot of women who have defined themselves by what other people think of them over the course of the last month we've been flooded with letters and emails from all races and cultures sometimes over two hundred responses a day all because of this one little girl. I'm so so pleased that all of you all races and cultures there's related to her. This one little girl who was dismissed as unlovable has touched your heart and mine so for me. The beauty of this book is that cola cola and all the colours of the world have finally gotten our day. The message in the bluest eye is so universal that i really believe we all all could learn from it and no matter where you live or who you are. We're going to begin now with an explanation of one of my favorite books of all time the bluest eye from the author herself off listen as tony morrison tells how even the youngest and most innocent could grow up and learn to hate who she is. Here's the house is green white. It has the red door. It is very pretty. Here's the family they're very c._j. She has a red breath. She wanted to see the dog bow goes. The dog play play a primary the first reader in the first grade was it an example of devastation that comes the everybody is judged by one story where you have the family classic mother father dog child that impossible ideal for everyone this measure against this particular family that is the center of book pekala wants blue eyes because in her world their superior they represent beauty. It would make any difference if she were the most beautiful child around her skin is no one's going to look at her. It was important important for me to say at that time was writing the spoken to sixty five through to the end of nineteen sixty nine that racism awesome. That kind of abuse on children hurts deep and it is devastating. If you're going to enslave people you have to be persuaded yourself that they are inferior. You and you have to attack the things that they have that they might take some pleasure. In one language tone the can speak not matter what you're what you mean real and the other is their history and what is the way they look cartoons. Ising people images eventually so consistent so persistent you begin to feel inferior perio- lesser <hes> less powerful less attractive less everything because his very little around. Oh dude supports it. You cannot drink from those fountains. You cannot sit in this part of the restaurant or even enter etc everything reinforces assists and it's difficult for parents of black children to try to tell them they are wrong in your right so eventually the self content becomes a part of your makeup part of who you are and that has happened with many groups certain with african americans as well in the bluest. I i wanted to show a real devastation of this concept of self image minch thousands of you wrote in about how the bluest eye affected you. Many letters were from women who wrote in graphic detail bill about how they hated who they were all because of the way they looked here are some of the things you've said along with more thoughts on beauty from tony morrison each night without fail. She prayed for blue eyes fervently for year here she although somewhat discourage she was not have soured color contact to make my is lighter. A little boy told me that i was dirty and that's why i was black. You know how terrible it was which damage to one another ira spin in the bathroom washing hands and pressing on skin just hoping that it would turn white. I used to walk with my head down because i never thought i was the i i was astonished at who the readers of this book or white women and white girls as well as my already league rules not african american girls. Certainly i understand that feeling of wanting to look different so that people would like so the beautiful. I was scrawny. Hail little runt with jack lantern teeth and kind of fuzzy long long hair stand hips. That's altered competing so the twelve year old boy with a changed colds flu wise tori privilege to my hips that i always thought were way way too big. The hunger for blindness is still profound. The perfect family always seemed to have girls that look like the girls from reading. I was thinking of getting these blue eyes to match my whole new. Look while i finished that book and i said no diane. You can't do that when we played. Make believe one of the things we did was put our blue cartoons around our foreheads so we can have long flowing hair and be beautiful ladies with the find is <hes> not comfort but <hes> authenticity. Somebody knows what it was like god. That's so good at age fourteen. I remember wanting to commit suicide. That's something i do remember because of the way i look yes did her in. I try not to ask salat but if you could just put aside the bills or tonight to dinner for the next twenty minutes or so what what you're gonna hear is both powerful and wonderful especially. If you are a mother of any kind of child thousands of you who wrote an emailed us. Thank you so much your comments help to shape our show today. Even those that didn't get on even if you weren't chosen for the discussion before we we begin though meet the four women who sat down with us stephanie is a thirty four year old lawyer in beaumont texas diana's a guidance counselor who grew up in lorain ohio the setting of the bluest eye and also twenty more since hometown ruth is a mother of eight children including three african american girls that she adopted and julie is a single woman who works for a hotel chain in san francisco and as you'll see for yourself our conversations are never about just the book <hes> that's what a good book does is open open doors to other areas and nobody opens more doors than ms toni morrison so put down whatever you doing and listen you need to listen to this because this has some of the most important insight. I've i've heard about raising children well. I have this to say about the bluest. I remember when i announced it on the show. I was saying if you don't don't appreciate love this book. Then i'm really i have nothing to say to you and i just and i really do mean that i have to say i was in an airport not too long ago and i saw an entire row of bluest eyes like in like in a major airport and i'm telling you my eyes you start to water because i thought pa- cola has her day. How do you feel about. I know this is the first. Does it feel like your baby. A._b._c.'s finally come into. I'm surprised how deeply emotional i am about this book and the characters on on the one hand i still feel totally entangled emotionally vulnerable to them to the characters in the book and that's not good for rider more of our conversation in just a moment support for this episode comes from thomas english muffins. What does the perfect perfect morning consists of for you flipping through your favorite magazine before getting out of bed setting a new personal best on your morning run or maybe waking up on the beach to a beautiful sunrise more importantly. What kind of thomas english muffin breakfast would you have. Obviously it'd be perfectly toasted did with crispy edges and a soft warm center but would you choose the savory light multi grain option topped with butter or would you opt for a cinnamon raisin english often drizzled with honey or jam of course nothing beats the original nooks and crannies english muffin. Oh decisions decisions delicious decisions decisions thomas's wake up to what's possible as we saw that piece or you're talking about you know why you wrote the book and we see all the images and the the cartoons. I mean the first time i saw that piece. You know watching from jesse room. I was very emotional about it and asking myself is it you know some residue pain that i have or is it for all <music>. All those girls girl i once was for all those girls i think so because i had the same feeling. I thought why this cutting so deeply. Now i wrote the book i live the life i did this. Why hurt and i realized was my eyes. Were filling up. Whatever sure i was feeling it was also those girls what started you to write. It began to write this story extensively about an incident that took place ice when i was maybe eleven or twelve years old about this girl who said she wanted blue eyes in your class and and i all i remembered about the moment was looking at her suddenly and seeing how extraordinarily beautiful awful she was but when i looked at her imagined her with blue eyes suddenly the wish she looked made me gasp. It was like a mutilation the fact that she really wanted to look like a freak. Which is what blue eyes would've made. Her look like the damage was already done correct correct so i thought nobody's gonna remember how it really was. Nobody's and also there was no book about it <unk>. Nobody had talked about it touched it. I went there. Everybody went there and i've been told a number of times in public venues early on that'll hit more you know i really liked the book but i was really angry with you for writing it and putting it sort of putting our business in st the business of racism the business of self hatred and self loathing skin taller fights that we have with that a lot of people who are watching us right now and a lot of states don't even know exist because as we all adjust steel black folks to them and they don't know like you are fighting still amongst yourselves based upon degrade of color copiers versus assist the old and then the paper bags back tattoo. I didn't know about that. There's the perfect tests not now not anymore you know in in the forties and the thirties and black nightclubs in louisiana i never heard of black on nightclub and they wanted to keep the club you know above a certain hugh so they'd hold a paper bag up to whoever into the club and if your doctor in a bag you wouldn't that was a long time ago but it it seeps into the shoe. Oh yeah i think what i found was. There are a lot of things one thing was. I do one of my daughters. <hes> moved in with us when she was older and came with this message because she's dark complected that she's hugli and to try to tell her how beautiful she but i mean the direct message and that is hard because i don't know what to you know. Tony says a beautiful thing about the messages that we get about who we are when a child first walks in the room. Can you talk about that. I i said it's interesting to see when a kid walks in the room your child or anybody else's child. Do does your face lighter or four and that's what they're looking for. When my children used to walk in the room when they were little i looked at them to see if they had buckled their trousers of the hair combed of stocks were up and so you think your affection and your deep love is on display. 'cause you're caring for them. It's not when they see you. They see the critical face. What's wrong now but then if you let your as i tried from then on to let your face speak what's in your heart because when they walked in the room i was glad to see them. It's just a small is that is that is what i think is so so profound because that is how you learn what your value is not by what the person is saying to you but what you feel when i was growing up my grandmother <hes> because she had to worked for <hes> white family in <hes> in mississippi and there's a photograph that i still have on my desk. The only photograph i have on my grandmother is with her holding this white child and when she would come home you know and with me chapped chastise me talk to me you know in in not the most loving term but every time she would ever talk about those white children's pleasure it was a she was pauline there would be this this this sort of glow low inside her about these white children and that was when i when i read what you'd said that's the message. That's why i got it but you better if you're white. You can be loved more if you're white. If i were only white she would love me. My i read the book again last night and when i got to the part where the berry pie i falls and and hear her own child is burned and she goes what honey and she slaps her child down on the ground up and slaps. Yes yes and it was underneath. We're concerned about berry juice on a dress good grip here. This is your show. You've you've messed up. My white folks kitchen. Just did you feel did you know no. I mean it's it's now the dramatic we've seen that absolutely senior and felt it i have i have i have even felt it. How are you affected. I took the book time. I think it opened my eyes <hes> i. I cannot experience what you all have experienced. Even oh now little bit the have i can remember being selected to be an angel in the church pageant and being told that i don't think it should be an angel because you have dark eyes and dark hair and you do now. Angels are blue eyed and blond. There is this hierarchy of <hes> race and at the top it's sort of a christian figure so long hair blue eyes blond and then everything everything else is down below until you get to animals so the farther away you are from that the less value you try. Dos you have that what we were talking talking about earlier. The paperback does the creole lines distinction color. We took upon ourselves. We took ugliness that circle cultivating chapter when you talk about the breedlove and their ugliness well. Every sentence is read tony morrison in a lot. Everybody knows i love tony's writing but i read it to open myself up and there's not a time when i come to you words when i have not been enhanced the language i mean we were talking about your truly gifted so yes i do because you surprised surprise. If you say no i think that you are truly gifted and i'll work hard and she works hard at it. I love that we do lots of shows on child raising in and how to handle your children <hes>. That's one of the most profound things i've ever heard for. All you moms worrying about dirty years or is your hair comb. The most important thing is which we all felt when we heard her say it is. Do your eyes light up when your child walks into the room wouldn't that big. That's profound so we're talking about the bluest by toni morrison. I i really do think it's a national treasure. Everybody should read it. Don't you think the world would be different. We'd be district always come away from a conversation with tony feeling a little smarter and more enlightened than we did. Before we sat down i think ncua to and this next part we talk about the secret that many incest survivors keep inside here now part two of our discussion with tony morrison now the other thing. That's interesting to me in this discussion. We were talking about the kinds of people we spoke a lot of of white women right to me about the bluest eye because of the incest a lot of young white females who are interested in the both because of that not being the level of let's say you know what and what's so interesting to me and i think at night have been the first time i read the bliss. I don't know that i made the connection having been a victim of sexual actual abuse as a child that i understood the complicity and vulnerability daughter of the of the daughter the second time because ause when many times people say to you i've said this before. I know you said people don't talk about ourselves. She must have missed that show. I talk about it. This is what is so difficult. This is what this this is. The confusion and horror of it is because if your child is i was where you don't feel loved and never felt any love and and when it happens to you as i say to my friends with daughters and young sons don't think it's going to be the horrible rape falling unconscious with charlie rally and new colour the first time a lot of times. It's so subtle to me. It started with a nineteen year old cousin playing footsie's you know and so you're thinking he he likes he likes me. He likes me for me inside of me. Following my uncle's around every time they came to visit me he likes me. He likes me want that and you want that. That does not mean you are asking to be raped but you want. You want the closest. Just as cola did felt at least i was has changed teams searching out of something other than what is never spoken about trying right. This girl told me she said i was my daddy's girlfriend friend and i said you mean you loved him. She said of course she said it wouldn't be as horrible as it is. If it was <unk> only hate it was just me hating him but what he did to me. That's hard but it's simple. It's the other part the fact that you was that young. I mean hers was infant. I mean it wasn't even they. She was walking. You know it was calculated horror story but at any rate it's it's more complicated as you say than just somebody abused. Somebody abused you get over it or not is much that that is why so many women carry the <hes> the guilt of it and the shame of it because they what did i do because sex felt felt good because into challenge to for people who are foster parents are adoptive parents you know helping a child recover and make sense of their life. This has this has happened to them at the hands of a family member and to be able over a period of time to heal and make sense and not feel guilty not feel ashamed not to feel worthless and that's a very very hard thing and made it very difficult more of this conversation in just a moment support for this episode comes from renewable. We've all been there that feeling of panic. After a terrible spill or accident on her favorite rug worst feeling ever will the stain come out. Will it look the same after all the scrubbing. You'll never have that feeling again with russell. Russell rugs are machine washable. Throw it in the wash. Throw it in the dryer and laid back out like now even even an eight by ten rug. -able rug fits standard washer dryer rubble. That's reasonable with t._j.'s has a patented to peace system with a high quality soft low pile rug that clings to a non-slip removable pad all rubble rugs are resistant to spills and stains pour coffee wine juice formula just about anything without stress. Ruggero rugs are also nontoxic. They can save for kids and pets checkout designer created styles ranging from boho chic to traditional and modern all made in the u._s. Go to my rug -able dot com slash super soul. Oh that's my argue g. G. l. e. dot com slash super bowl and fifteen percent off your order plus. Free shipping will automatically be applied to your purchase. This offer is only applied. If if you go to my rug -able dot com slash super bowl rog -able washable livable lovable. Let's talk about marine peel. I think the best way to talk about her as fee to read your description of her from the book the this <hes> disruptor of seasons was a new girl in school named maureen peel a high yellow dream child with long brown hair braided into lynch ropes that hung down her back fluffy sweaters the color of lemon drops tucked into skirts with pleads so orderly the astounded us brightly colored knee the socks with white borders a brown velvet coat trimmed in white rabbit for matching muff. There was the hand of spring bring in her slow. Green is something summery in her complexion and a rich autumn ripeness in her walk. She enchanted the entire school. I guess she did hearing you read it. I forgot about the brown around velvet coat and the rabbit sweater the color of lemon drops. How could you not slapper not slap. We're not going to have all the you know. The teachers love love her. All black choirs the child and there was one girl who was very fair skin. She had the huge brown straight hair but she was black but she had green eyes and some really it. It was so nice. She couldn't say she didn't have anything to really you know but she was so beautiful and we all just kind of looked at the water because you could just comb her hair. You know my mother was crying and then the hairdresser is is ed her point of view but i love this line. I love this week where <hes> the girl saying all the time. This is after marine pill has said you're ugly. You're your ugly cute and all the time we knew that marine pill was not the enemy and not worthy of such intense hatred the thing to fear was that the thing that made her beautiful and not us. Why would the white children also respond to her way but why i children love her because she was closer in looks to them right. She had lovely long straight hair. You know curling. She was a high yellow dream child so she was a version vision of them little exotic perhaps a little tan but she was like as a white person. Come growing up. Were you aware of this was this why light is it not is quiet as it's kept absolutely were not aware in the least and there were three was it was eye opening for for a white person to understand <hes> and i think this is what i meant by an epiphany of of understanding of the rice <hes> it's the secret but it's a secret i need to and now the hierarchy that tony morrison was talking about that she talks about inner class. The closer you are to white and that is what has been adopted <music> in in the race. I feel that for my own personal situation. I mean i didn't i couldn't pass for white but i was educated in white schools and when i went among my contemporaries in the black side of town i was almost treated like a marine peel because listen to the way. She talked a great <music> hanno when she plays the show. Who does she think she and the thing is. You want to love the marine peel because they're not the enemy. No they're really not they. You know thing. They don't say that we should just eliminate the word beautiful because it's a relative it's but the of the virtues that is not want the virtues are not the accidents of birth the virtues things you work full to be forthright to be educated to be <hes> in control to be diplomatic to be healthy to be graceful to be. You know to have your body part of who you are. These are things you could work for. You can get the they're available to you. I always say that. Having children was the most it's liberating thing that ever happened to me and people say liberating. I thought having children was confining. I said no but i could be a certain kind of person now that i didn't have to be <hes> in the corporate world or where i was working because my children want something for me that nobody else did which i could deliver. They wanted honesty. They wanted somebody who was capable. They wanted somebody who could deal emergencies. They wanted somebody who was <hes> has since humor they they wanted like ten or twelve things. It seemed to me that were beneficial and that i could achieve they. They didn't want me to be sexy. They didn't want to be rich didn't want me. I mean all these things out here. Outside of ourselves told ourselves yeah so the idea of telling a child what is really the truth about him or herself. You're good. You're kind you are generous. You did was a that was a gracious thing you just did. You're pretty <hes>. What did you want us to know or z. From the bluest i i had a couple of ideas that merged which was was how to value another human being and that and i think i've said in other ways race when you know somebody's patties race. That's least information you. You don't know anything. The real information is elsewhere. When i first read the bluest sti- the thing that struck me the most is <hes> that anybody who allows themselves to be defined outside of their own personal vision for themselves that is a form of insanity and look at what the world has done to women and get out pull. Uh pull it up shaping up as you know you see young girls now thirteen fourteen years ago having plastic surgery already the colored contacts well would have to go. I should say that tony use it did pull the colour wouldn't have to go buy some style number one question but why did she have to go insane. There were no exits thank you. That's exactly there. Were no exit. There was nothing there were no adults. <hes> there were no teachers. There were no parents. There was this man in the neighborhood who said yeah you're right. You're horrible. I'll fix it but she had no doors open into her so she made a door for us and that was her insanity and she talked to a friend in there where she was accepted and she was finally loved and she was finally yeah. She found almost what she was looking on. Because you remember the title is the blue star yeah and there is no no i ultimately as blue enough as you as the yearning what hurt me about the book was there was not wanted. Not one and i wanted there to be one adult one and there really wasn't there was no one ever said poor baby report. No one ever just held her relent. I have seen some adults who are sick emotionally sick women mostly and some of them incarcerated you know they went this way. Maybe into some other life but you know you see the ravages of an unloved oft life. Can we talk about that incident in the store sure yes what happens when she goes to the store. Is that the first time she realizes for herself. I worked for him to attach drops and i remember that was a sense memory for me. There was one of those people in my neighborhood yeah where you go to the store and i mean we never wanting to touch. My hand always dropped the money ah he doesn't see her. This is not this is why he should she's exchange penny or whatever it is and the candy and that there was somebody back there having feelings or yearnings or desires or capable of being hurt this never would occur to him never on imaginable imaginable as worthy not just the buying mary james but of being part of the landscape and that's what's so powerful about the bluest eye. It's why you know. I feel like i would have done my job. I can retire by get the whole country to read them because i think it is a way a of saying to the world. This is what we're talking about when people say racist i'm not racist that doesn't exist or what are you talking about. I mean oprah look at your life to be able to see through the eyes of the chola. That is the world that so many of us have seen and that's twi. It's so exciting to go into a bookstore borders which is right across the street from me and to see cola display and redeem it will change the world every change the world. Love deserves to be validated and that's what it really helped me to remember. Do you remember the picture or the the the track of princess diana coming back from a trip in greeting her children with her arms outstretched and that look on her face for some reason last night. I thought about that on. I thought how could anyone just smile at this child may have been the only only love yeah in other than you know. I read that book and i thought you'd have to write another one. You have to write another one you written so many other great ones including getting the nobel prize. Thank you for your finest work for opening up all of us in ways that we never expected. Here's miss morris books for those of you who haven't had a chance to read it. Give yourself that gift of the bluest. I do that for yourself. Do that for yourself and for your children as you were saying if nothing else comes out out of the book. If you learn nothing else from the book will learn to treat your own children differently. Thank you tony morrison for the bluest eye for showing us. The world through the colas is i'm over winfrey and you've been listening to super soul conversations the podcast you can follow super soul on instagram twitter and and facebook if you haven't yet go to apple podcasts and subscribe rate and review this podcast join me next week for another super bowl conversation station thank you for listening starting august twenty fourth own proudly presents black women owned the conversation of four part special special love motherhood beauty mind body and soul. Watch this with every moment you know from your saturday august twenty fourth ten nine central.

toni morrison Tony nobel prize oprah winfrey State farm allstate oprah bill colds thomas jesse room pa- cola beaumont diane russell A._b._c. oprah
Ep 402 - Paradise, by Toni Morrison

Overdue

1:00:59 hr | 11 months ago

Ep 402 - Paradise, by Toni Morrison

"This is a head. Gum podcast while Andrew and Craig believe the joy of discovery is crucial to enjoying any well told tale. They will not shy away. From spoiling specific story beats when necessary. Plus these are books. You should have read by now. Uh Inter just flew back from Ohio and boy are my buckeyes tired. We're GONNA overdo. It's a podcast about the books you've been meaning to read my name is Craig name is Andrew as a native Ohio and I the thing I love the most about Buckeyes thing besides go college yeah. Football is that the snack buckeyes was like the peanut butter dipped in chocolate of very good. They're good and the tree nut. Fruit BUCKEYES ARB- super poisonous. So if you were to rank the three buck is as food. You would put Seeds at the bottom a literal human football player at number two and then the peanut chocolate snack at number one. Yeah I mean and understand that. There's a big gap to three or close together because like the brain injury and cannibalism the many many shenanigans that Oh s. u. coaches and players got over the years. I was just food. But sure yes. Also just generalize judging them as as what they are which is well if you're judging them is what they are like. Buckeyes super tasty. Yeah State Buckeyes good at college football even though college football as a problematic institution yeah myth of a college athlete. Plant Buckeyes good at poison that good reasoning people which is the best at being itself. Hit US UP AT DOT com. We're here talking about books though Guys it just go to Ohio to talk about books. Why we're talking about Syrian. Play your e books with your eyes. Yeah I stay book I if you read enough books you get bucks. That's how we as part of the book yet program abstracts boy. We're GONNA talk about a book that neither of us have read before which is sort of what we do every week I'm going to talk about Toni. Morrison's Paradise Anders GonNa like. Ask Me questions and learn about the book alongside you. The listener is. I would do it every week. Here on overdue This was a Patriot recommendation. Patriarch's report for more information Thanks Leon for this one. Leon says I'm going to do the thing where he flatters US First Andrew L. At least you. I love your insights into books and your sense of humor. I don't think I've listened to a single woman without laughing out loud always awkward work. If it's not on your list yet. I'd recommend paradise by Tony Morrison. Not all that long. But it's full of memorable scenes and small but significant connections it shows the highs and lows of humanity and the difference between generations love and hate failure and success feast and famine top. It all off with Morrison's incredibly beautiful pros and you have a book that will stick with you for a long time after finishing it and I don't think I disagree with him though I do think part of what will stick with me about this book is whether or not I got it as much as their stuff to get. So we'll talk about that. Andrew we have talked about Tony Morrison before episode one fifty eight Benny Number. Because I also got it just in case you didn't get it But Yeah we talked about Tony. Morrison some a Khloe. Anthony Wofford Morrison Anthony was her the name she took when she was baptized. I think and then so. That's where Tony Comes from okay She was yeah she was born in. Nineteen thirty one and died just recently in twenty nine. Yeah And Yeah like we. We talked a little bit about her in in the beloved episode Which was about the book beloved. I don't know that it's particularly beloved or not amongst overdue aficionado. Sure sure but yeah the big thing to know about paradise. Is that together with Jazz? Which is the second book that's in between them at sort of a loose trilogy on the theme of like African American history okay. I'm so you don't you. Don't get any specific characters that carry over you. Don't get any like specific. Narrative Arcs other than like the wider arc of history. That is that is tying any of these three books together but they are all thematically related and paradise is. I'm pretty sure it's a reference to Paradiso the third book in a divine comedy trilogy because Morrison wanted to call it war but her through so I think she went with. I think she went with the trilogy. Concluding title Oh okay said. That's the way to think about it. Yeah this was the first book she had come out after. She won the Nobel for literature. I think which she won in ninety three And you're right to point out the like was it. Did it have the best name or not Based on publisher fears. Because I do think. This book was like M- reviewed like had mixed reviews. I was trying to think of a way to save that. And that's the way people and I read some good reviews and I you know some some other background about the book in my the impression that I get is that people will recognize that. It's well done and has value but they didn't necessarily have like a great or easy time reading it. If that makes sense is that was. That was my experience on it I do know that by the time that this this book came out like she'd had you know significant exposure via Oprah and like people were very into her work from almost like a pop perspective like a pop literature perspective even though her stuff has always strove to be as tough as it needs to be in terms of both its subject matter and its pros. I I think there was a it was a USA Today Article Where she talks about the difficulty the're taxed and she says people's anticipation now. More is late nineties people's anticipation now more than ever for linear chronological stories is intense because that's the way narrative revealed in TV and movies but we experienced life as the present moment the anticipation of the future in a lot of the slice a lot of slices of the past and she would rather have people like grapple with what is difficult with her work rather than merely revere it she says. I have people tell me your novel was on my bed stand. I don't want books to be what people dip into before they go to people to like spend the time working on it And then there was something also mentioned in that article about this book being less well received and it might have had like a rushed publication process. Like she might she submitted a manuscript and then maybe like Scott spent more time before the final you know with more revisions or something like that. Yeah like A. It's a tough thing I don't know because I guess that could help. But also you know if if if this is what she was going for if this is totally and structurally of the work. I don't know how editing like another editing passer to necessarily the difference between yes thing that fair enough. I'd accessible on something that they don't I don't know some edits are heavier than than others. But yeah like I like. I said I was reading good reviews. I didn't vet the story. I don't know if it's real overly like the idea of it so I'm GonNa say podcast is a good reads. Revere named John gave it five stars. Paradise was not well received upon its publication in one thousand nine hundred eighty seven and then he goes on to talk about Like critics and and then Oprah's audience kind of were bouncing off of it and It was recommended as part of Oprah's book club. Yeah And this apparently prompted Oprah to call Morrison to offer the viewers encouragement one of the studio audience members protested that confused by the novel's Multiple Perspectives. Non Linear Chronology. She was lost on page. Nineteen Oprah asked Morrison. What the poor woman was to do. And Morrison's reply which I've never forgotten was read page twenty. That's good that's really good. That's a really good answer. That's very good T to your point about whether or not an ED. It would've made this any clear. It certainly seems like she set out to write a book with a lot of levels of hierarchy a lot of different perspectives. And what that does is it. Gives you You know a couple of a bunch of different windows into this town and into this time period that we're going to talk about but it sort of deprives you one or two characters to really hang your hat on. I think anybody. Who's coming from beloved is like really looking for a main character that they can see this world through and I was listening to our beloved episode and there are several characters to hang your hat on that one. Yeah it's also interesting to listen to myself having apparently just recently learned about like skin tone privileges in the black community. We're all trying to learn all distraught. You're actually to part of the inspiration for this book. So there's a great preface from Morrison in the addition of the book that I read She was doing research for some other compilation of writings and and collected histories And she was going through newspapers from the nineteenth century You know following the civil war and and resettling of black communities in America and She says of particular interest were those Newspapers printed in the nineteenth century. When my grandfather spent his few minutes at school I learned. There was some fifty black newspapers produced in the southwest following a man's a patient and the violent displacement of Native Americans from Oklahoma Territory. The opportunity to establish black towns was as feverish as the rush for whites to occupy the land the quote unquote colored. Newspapers encouraged the rush and promised a kind of paradise to the newcomers land. Their own government safety there were even sustained movements to establish their own state. One theme in particular in papers intrigued me. Prominent in their headlines and articles was a clear admonition come prepared or not at all implicit in those warnings were two commands if you have nothing stay way and this land is Utopia for a few translation. No no poor former. Slaves are welcome in the paradise being built here and she goes on to talk about Other instances of color is among these communities And then that is a huge part of what is reflected in the book and so just this like land rush for communities that are not in the Jim Crow South. How can we get away and go there? As reconstruction fails and how people set up communities and put up walls and gates around them literal and perhaps even keep away other people of color well then and then also knowing what we know now which is that even these sort of paradise places like the these areas that some black people found for themselves were then often. You know destroyed the big one that I'm thinking of his his Tulsa. It's referenced in the book briefly the Tulsa massacres. It's like the founders of the okay. So let me get away into the book itself Yeah police the on our book. Pod Cast you always say let me get into the book like what if I didn't what if I was like. No I'm not no. I'm just not going to have it today. All right. Let's keep talking about about the book but we can't talk about it So it takes place in this community called Ruby that is itself a descendant of a community named haven that was established by nine families. That left you know Louisiana or so in the eighteen nineties After you know the key patriarchs in these families were Herat being harassed by southern whites and they decided to leave And as they are leaving you know they are turned away from communities that had already been established by Lighter skinned black folk. Who are like well. This is problematic for us. So you can't come in Please go and this is like later. Dramatizing the book. They have like a Nativity pageant in their church that is simultaneously the story of Jesus and the story of them being kicked out of the south and like not being allowed to settle where they try to settle. It's an newcomers in the town. Rightfully are like Whoa is. This is weird. What okay So I I kind of liked that as Morrison both making an allusion herself with the people of Ruby but also allowing for critique of that of that like Double Myth Within the story but So this town has been set up by families that are the descendants of people who've been in the Louisiana territory for over a century and they are referred to later in the book when one of the Characters Anna is doing like sort of a a town family tree that she started as a project with the kids from school. Where she's like. Hey go ask your parents all their business. And we'll talk about it and it's you know it's like three hundred people or something so everybody knows everybody's crap and nobody wants to talk and so eventually it becomes a real private like research project of Hers. But she really breaks down the history of these Folks who are called eight rock like eight are they used to work like really deep in the coal mines and they are really Like dark skinned people who when they encounter other light skinned black folk. They are surprised that they are of another cast like they are. They did not know that that was going to happen. They thought it was just an issue of black and white and are surprised when they are turned away so when they set up I haven which then like kind of falls apart after work to And then Ruby. They really make it like as pure as possible and exclude and express severe disdain for anybody coming in who might like. Lighten the town in a way. Okay so it's like a we can't get into your place and you can't get our place yeah and it becomes like so it is a paradise quote unquote and I gets at the idea of Utopia that I think we've discussed with writers like La- Gwen and who am I thinking of Butler a little bit mostly Gwynn of like it. Using utopia knocked to say like what if life was amazing but like what if we set up a life where everything was supposed to be amazing and then we still have problems. Let's talk about the problems that that would cause So these families have set up this paradise but of course they are cloistered from the rest of the world and the Times they are a changing it is the seventies after all and language funky. And it's like there's a little bit of anxiety about kids being into music and be indifferent and stuff but also you know. Mlk has just been killed a few years prior like the Watergate hearings are happening. Vietnam is going on and you know some of the boys in town have gone off to serve and die there and so there's this like growing anxiety among people in the town to be like what if we engaged with the outside world like the problems with White America have become abstract as their problems with anyone different from themselves have become more literal e okay And here's the big. The big problem for them is that just outside the town of Ruby there. Is this big old house and just women live there. Just strange women does live in this house. It was started you to elaborate a little bit because you picked possibly the strangest phrasing that you possibly could have okay so let me the way that Morrison in with them worse than introduces. This is okay. I've described Ruby where it is an all black community and the leaders of the town prioritize their blackness and it's all very explicit and there's no room for debate on that stuff The opening of the book though is the sentence they shot the white girl I and they took their time with the rest and the rest of the scene is men from Ruby. Have moved in on this convent. They call it where a bunch of strange women are living in this house outside their town and they are gonNA kill them or run them off or something The the book then jumps around time-wise which is why confused that lady on Oprah And it works backwards from this pivotal event which then the book circles back to at the end But you actually and this is delivered on Morrison's part. She's spoken about this She never tells you the races of the women in the house or even their skin color. there are allusions to some of them. Not Being White But there is no explicit mention of it and so she is deliberately like she's deliberately making you test your own assumptions There is certainly. I was an article I read where she talked about. Like some readers just assuming some of the women in that house or black because of the like various circumstances that they come from and I caught myself thinking that and recognizing that she had not actually laid. That out was kind of interesting to think. She's priming you to think about people a certain way to then flip it on it on its end There's a scene. Where when when you first like really meet the convent in whatever the closest to like a chronology that the book has this in frustration in Your Voice. Wicket and he'd say so. Okay so the book has like eight or nine chapters. Each one is named after a different woman in the book Each of the five main women from the convent get their own chapter as do a couple others from Ruby and around the book And so most of the ones that center on the Convent Women. You get both. They're like it's almost like lost. Were you get like the show lost You Gay and I thank you You get like the flash back to their life before where they've ended up like that so we're like Hurley uses the numbers to win the lottery and like the start to ruin your life. I know the show lost as a thing that exists but as soon as you reference any specific episode of Law I am not with in fact lost. I wasn't I took pains not to say it that way. But yeah okay. Well I can read the subtext. Thank you the first one we get is this woman Mavis. Who is living typing? She does after she's done. She's not actually typing her. Last name was beacon. It's weird She leaves her life on the East Coast because she is unfortunately left her infant children in a car while she ran into a grocery store and they die and it. Kinda messes up her life. She May or may not be having some sort of psychotic episode where she thinks her remaining children are trying to kill her. She does have an abusive husband so she liked just takes the car and leaves and we get like a few pages of her kind of trekking across America until the car finally breaks down outside Ruby and she has to borrow some just to get a lift from this kid To take her into town to get some gas for the car so that she can leave after. She's met this woman at the at the convent and she morrison. Does this great thing where like after she drives the Cadillac back to the house It says behind the wheel cooling. The air conditioned Air Mavis regretted not having noticed the radio stations number on the dashboard of the of the boys. Truck she fiddled. Dial dial uselessly. As she drove the Cadillac back to Connie's house she parked and the Cadillac. Dark is bruised. Blood stayed there for two years and Morrison will do that a lot. Where like after a really just kind of straightforward descriptive paragraph. She'll drop like character changing news in a very succinct way. Like oh this person just go live here now to see you know. That's distorted doesn't move point to point B. So I can just tell you that that's how this works and so the women when you're reading like no go ahead like when you're reading were you. Sometimes when I'm reading a book that's like that I keep waiting for it to become more like linear and understandable. Yeah and sometimes it never never does like. I'm just I'm thinking primarily my experience reading images. I do think what was tricky. I was honestly surprised when the book came back around to the. Oh we're GONNA have to go take care of those women in the convent plot because that is that is the beginning of the book and then you spend a long time with these like meeting the different women meeting Mavis meeting. Gee-gee Meetings Seneca whoever and then you get also like snippets of the town and you're like the the town. Snippets are laid out in such a way. That time is progressing forward. But you're also getting a lot of back story which is very it is interesting but yeah it's kind of disorienting. So that by the time that the men had worked themselves up into a tizzy about the convent again. And we're going to go off and kill them. I was like Oh. Yeah Wow that was the book And it's not even that long of a book so it was like I guess I was surprised at how well Morrison had like. Just got me into whatever rhythm like wavelengths she was on but it did make for some disorienting reading like I sure I had trouble holding onto character details Because so many of them are are either delivered. Slyly like in the passage. I just read Or they are like they don't cause further action they're just like. Oh this I read this as a critique of the book like the women who find themselves at the convent come from just like different tough walks of life to the point. Where like I don't think they're quite cliches But because the the aim of the book is just to introduce the different ways in which like Patriarchy and careless men can like mess with women Taken in aggregate she wants you to take an aggregate but it means that the individual stories seem like a little underdeveloped because the women don't necessarily like have individual arcs over the course of the book they collect you have an arc. But they don't. It's not like oh here's what happened to Mavis. And here's what happened to Seneca. Here's what they were trying to do. They were thwarted and things like that. So that can that did make for tough reading. And then the other thing that makes four. I always kind of forget this about Morrison. When whenever I'm not reading her is that she likes to get supernatural and she. The Women in the convent went. The Convent was founded by nuns to. This is the strange house. You're just strange house. Okay yes that was apparently like a bill by an embezzler and then he ran out of money and a bunch of nuns moved in and were like educating you know native girls from tribes in Oklahoma. Whether or not they should be doing that. I don't know any house with any sense of the supernatural about has have a really complicated. The building had to be weird ownership. History has to be where you can't just be like yeah. I this House was house was built ninety. Two years ago it was. It was flipped recently and I bought it with the help of deb. Debbie my realtor and it went fine now is haunted. Yeah there was a sign out front. That said not haunted. Now I have to hang the sign that says Ho. That's only in New Orleans. Oh so yeah so. This gets back to that. Wow that scene. I was talking about ten minutes ago with Mavis in Connie and the mother. I intentionally made this podcast sort of leg bookbinder Creighton. Yeah like the book. That's great. You know art. Art Imitates are they say so. When Mavis rose up and decides to stay at the convent she meets. Connie who is not totally blind has been at this comment for a long time since all of the nuns were around. And now there's only one none left and she lives all her time in a bed and is dying probably But Connie can kinda keep her alive with her magic powers and you don't know that she has magic powers until the end of the book spoilt. She has magic powers of g guest. Beloved does this to the ghost baby. Who maybe as a ghost baby? Abc She isn't it's not quite natural. Realism thing that's but that's like drawing on reality and and doing so really pointedly at so. It's so strange to me to also decide that you need to May June. You put magic and it also okay so I do think the my other frame of reference for this in among African American literature is August Wilson who in his plays? I always forget that. There's like ghosts and stuff but they don't come out until like the conflict of the plays get gets really bad and so I there's a tradition. I think that is it here. In the like the issues loom so large and are generally about like Generational Power. Some of which is either in conflict with or derives from God that things have to get bigger than what people are capable of Nor you know traditionally non magic people are capable of right so so like At some point in her life A woman from Ruby comes to Connie Who is like the matriarch of the mansion? Who was keeping this none alive for a long time? And he's like. Hey Lady you are magic GonNa teach you how to magic await. This guy is in a car crash. Let's go over and you're going to save his life And she calls it like stepping in where she gets to the car and Was the consulate looked at the body and without hesitation. Removed her glasses and focused on the trickles of red discoloring his hair. She stepped in saw the stretch of road. He had dreamed through felt the flip of the truck. The headache that chest pressure the unwillingness to breathe as from a distance she heard eastern July kicking the truck and moaning inside the boy. She saw a pinpoint of light receding pulling up Energy. That felt like fear. She stared at it until it widened than more more. So air could come seeping at first than rushing rushing in although it hurt like the devil to look at it. She concentrated as though the lungs in need were her own and she uses that skill to keep this none alive for a long time also So that when Mavis shows up and again you still don't know if any of these people except maybe the none none is definitely white If any of these people are people of Color on purpose that's more synon- purpose The mavis like where's all the light in this room coming from because there's no electricity in here that none is glowing. It's apparently the light that Connie has been putting in her to keep her alive for a period of time until she does die. Sure she didn't just rub balloon on her head for Awhile and generate some electricity bill. The other magic thing in this book is that people in Ruby. Don't die they just don't if you're in if you are in the town of Ruby you you cannot die you age or Esa you do so you could be like. Are there. People who were super bowl boldest person was like five in eighteen ninety and I think the book takes place in the nineteen seventies so no one in this town has died since the founders. Deacon and Stuart Morgan who are descendants of the original founders They're twins and they're like cousin or niece or someone was refused hospital care while she was pregnant because she was black she died and they named the town after her inch. So I think that was in the thirties or forties. I could be wrong and so no one in this town has died. Since then you could leave the town. Indic- you gay an airplane accident. You could get sent to Vietnam and you could die there which does happen to two sons so ruby is really like the. Inverse Hotel California is you can check out. You can check out whenever you want. But you can't leave. You can't leave the hotel right. Correct the hotel. You have to stay in the hotel for the hotel will burn down or anything. So there's actually there's a guy who works in town. He has an ambulance. That sometimes is a hearse but he can't have a fulltime funeral business because not enough people so one of these days is going to open up a gas station settling we can have a job. There's a sitcom premise in there. About like a part time her striber who runs a part time contract based GIG economy more? So the the the premise that the woman who is collecting all of the gossipy. You know family tree stuff. She spells it out in the book that the thing that the men at least believe has caused the magic of Ruby to exist is the blood the the like pure sacred bloodline of these eight rock families of which there are now seven down from nine because people mingled with outsiders and so she says unadulterated and unadulterated eight rock. Blood held. Its magic as long as it resided in Ruby. That was their recipe. That was their deal for immortality. Pat Smile was crooked in that case she thought everything that worries them must come from women and that is the crux of the novel. That I think I've like hit on a couple of times. But not as bluntly as the as the non okay that these men run this town The book is told almost not exclusively through the eyes of women but th- those all the stories are centered And that was the case for beloved also like men men were around but they weren't the people who did story toward a no no And so the convent poses this unique threat and a unique perceived threat. I don't think the convent. Nobody in the common is actually trying to harm Ruby explicitly but it just magic Weirdos and so it's hard not to be threatened by them and I don't think that everybody knows that they're magic like some women in town have gone to the convent and then they just come back sometimes. They go there if they have a pregnancy that they would like to not have any more and there are like various stories as to what has happened when people go there Some men have had relationships with the women at the convent. But that's not a good thing because they're like godless women out there. Do it like what? Gdp is like the naked all the time dancing and music on the radio like trying to cities men like kind of archetype of the crew which then causes a lot of problems for at the convent. Who is not playing that role but the the men of Ruby really prefer a kind of like wholesome conservative like. We're just here to live and go to church and like we're not wearing too much makeup and we're not listening to rock music We're just GONNA keep living in this town until you know. God says we need to stop We would prefer to never stop so when their anxieties about the fact that both of the town leaders Deacon Steward the twins Are Not having kids. They're unable to have more kids or any kids at this point because I think okay I think stewards. Tau The deacon their sewer or seward stunt suns at died in Vietnam and then the other one They can't have so. The bloodlines are kind of drying up. Then there's like one last hope and even he seems like they're they're not sure that he's GonNa follow through And then there's also anxiety coming from the youth in town which is kind of like none of them were main characters but they get referred to a lot as dislike the youth that are causing problems. The town was founded around. This thing called the oven. When they came from the south in their wagons they had this big cast-iron oven pot or something that they built and initially before it was turned into the town of Ruby. It was like You know the town would cook all. It's big meals in it and it provided sustenance and it kind of became a relic of of the original town haven When they founded Ruby they took the of apart and moved. It and a bunch of the women are like. Why did they do that? We don't even use that thing anymore. For whatever but one of the inciting instance of the book is someone in the youth have painted a black like a black power fist on it. Like a black leander image on it. And there's this like growing unrest that the young people in town are not to uphold rubies values which basically means clinging to the past and clinging to the teacher. Arkell power that exists and not changing it all. And there's a reverend who if I had a character that like the two characters that I would put hats on though I don't think you could hang them on the whole way. One is magic. Connie who I like a lot And the other is this reverend Meisner or MS ner Who is a younger pastor running like the second church in town who is all about like is this town going to survive isolationism like is it? GonNa Survive. This turbulent time in our country and how can it if it won't raise like a hand to help outside world or engage in outside road? He gets in multiple arguments with people where he's like. Don't you WANNA know about Africa and like where we come from and people are like? Why would I send my money? If in the mail to countries in need what what you want from me like we live here They're not anyone to me And he's like put like there's a whole world out there and if we could learn about it maybe we could get over our history and like build a future and it seems to be falling on deaf ears so he has a lot of conflict with the town about that. Yeah because it feels it feels like it's I know it's some. It's somebody who's never experienced anything else sort of misunderstanding. The reason why the town exists the way it does in the first place like it was founded as a refuge from the outside world because the outside world is bad people who only know the refuge or like. Hey what's going on out there? Yeah there's a two really good passages of his one is about this isolation ISM thing that I really like had the time finally gotten to him was the desolation that rose after King's murder desolation that climbed like a tidal wave in slow motion. Just now washing over him or was it. The calamity of watching the drawn out a basement of a noxious president had the long unintelligible. War infected him behaving like a dorm virus and blossom now that it was coming to a raggedy clothes everybody on his high school. Football team died in that war They were the ones he had looked up to wanted to be like was he. Just now gagging at their futile death. Was that the origin of this incipient for violence or was it ruby. What was it about this town? These people that enraged him they were different from other communities and only a couple of ways beauty and isolation. And that's like where that's one of his first passage Israel Echo. This guy is fighting up hill and he not everyone in. The town is on board with the murder plan. That happens later and he is certainly not on board with it later. He is think this. Okay this next passage I just wrote my note was Wolf Morrison like it just. It was a good one. So buckle up. He's thinking about the civil rights movement and whether or not he should stay in Ruby. Twenty thirty years from now he thought all sorts of people will claim pivotal controlling defining positions in the rights movement. A few would be justified. Most would be frauds what could not be gainsaid but would remain invisible in the papers and the books he bought for his students were the ordinary folk the janitor who turned off the switch so the police couldn't see the grandmother who kept all the babies so the mothers could march the backwards women with fresh towels in one hand and a shotgun in the other the little children who carried batteries and food to secret meetings the ministers who kept whole Churchill's of hunted protesters. Calm 'til help came the one who gathered up the broken buys of the young the young who spread their arms wide to protect the old from batons they could not possibly survive parents who wipe the spit in tears from their children's faces Yes thirty thirty years from now. Those twenty thirty years from now those people will be dead or forgotten their small stories part of no grande record or even its footnotes Now seven years after the murder of the man who said he would happily have taken the sword he was hurting a flock who believe not only that it hid created the pasture at grazed but that grass from any other meadow was toxic. And that first half of that. I don't know I was just thinking a lot about protest movements and the ways in which they are like layered they are layers of action that support each other and a lot of stories. Never get told and I was like. Oh Dang that that passage stood out regardless of whatever else the book as Morrison Dislike. You know just lay in some some good lines about how that stuff works Kind of wondering like in this small town where every story gets told like. Will anyone step forward to be involved or in Hot Yeah I don't know this is a good one. That one was the ending of now. Are there any other like snippets like that within this larger book? Soup that sand or or stuck with you. My when I'm reading a book like this is just like hard to read for better for worse. I think probably mostly for worse. I've find to have a harder time recalling it later. Yeah yeah yeah sounds like. It's just that doesn't mean I didn't appreciate it at the time I didn't enjoy it or I didn't understand what was doing it. Just it makes it harder for me to they. When we're doing our our long cast like six hours after we finish the book like that's one thing but if you ask me this thing that that routinely happens to me there's something. I read like eighteen months ago for the show and talked about four an audience for an hour and I have to go back and listen to that. Remember what I thought about it. Some Yeah Yeah. It's tough because the the basic bones of this story where town full of men anxious about the future Control control the women they have and lash out at the women that they wish they could control That's like the main those are the main plot points and as much as they are plot points so the rest of the book is like a series of these little like tone poem. Ask interactions where it's some of the magical stuff that happens to the convent. Women it some of these musings on a small town which I am a sucker for like I am. I was intrigued in the life of this town in the same way that I am intrigued in groves court intrigued by groves corners from our town or when we discussed peyton place on the show like the the little sniping that can happen. The little bridges that can be built between unlikely allies Over issues big and small. That's always very compelling and then Morrison does have a couple little as what you asked for like a couple little passages where I. It's I hope I remember stuff like this. Where when we're introduced to Dovey Morgan? Who'S MARRIED TO STEWARD? One of the first things that is on her mind is when w Morgan thought about her husband. It was in terms of what he had lost. And then she just like lists of page of like things that he had lost. Mostly like business ventures. He'd gone out on that he would claim was a success but actually he came up short in the end zone. I was thinking of smaller things like my dad has lost his wedding band at least three or four times like he's lost because he he like would and I don't know if he does as much anymore. Used to work on cars and motors. Sure yeah he would take it off to do that. And then you and since I stopped living at home I've lost track of the of the body. Count their address. What my right thigh when you when you said he loses stuff. I imagined that sort of Oh. It's small in the scheme of things but significant to you as an individual person. Well she doesn't. She does a good job though because she goes from like you know business ventures politics stuff. His hairline and his taste buds. Small losses that culminated with the big one Where they could no longer have children so she does the like. She does a nice like funnel with a real button at the end of it It's interesting to have a like a an infertility thing that is pinned on the guy. Yeah because even like even if you're if you're just a person trying to have kids like often the it's it's the practice did well at the woman says you know. I think getting them in even check. Yeah just talking from experience. That was another thing that struck me when we were recording our beloved episode and I was listening to. It is like that guy doesn't even know he doesn't he doesn't know anything. No all Andrew. I think I think Andrew from episode was. We're talking about your chair. That have broken like you didn't even know you were going to care about a child. I'm still sitting in the chair that I replaced that chair with other tidbits from the book that I dug I lose to earlier the bit about the suns who die in Vietnam. There's a meditation on bringing their bodies back. They were in an integrated unit and the father knows that like most people who died in Vietnam are not just like falling on the ground dead. Like there's a chance that it's a it's a box of that is not the shape of a person. And there's a meditation on like whether or not all of his boys came home and if there's a mixture of people and it's like given the context of the town and and purity of person hood like that gets very loaded The fact that the two twins steward and Deacon They've each got their own private secrets. There's a lot in the book about how they can kind of read each other's minds. It's it's like a take it for granted supernatural thing. It's August superpower. They dislike appeared to just be able to know each other's memories and at the end of the book and the climactic hunt the women sequence One of them shoots the first woman that they kill and no one really knows who did it but okay but I believe it's deacon is way more troubled by what happened and he can't like connect to his brother anymore because when he sees his twin he sees himself and he's disgusted by and there's a lot of the meditation on twinning in. This book is very good as well. Yeah I think if people have trouble with this one it's because the plot inasmuch there is one is not going to get you through like you have to be there for the meditations on these individual people which are often like a concept given human form like or a particular relationship run through a personality Or you have to be interested in like this notion of exclusion and what it would mean for marginalized people to establish a paradise. Which in and of itself is inherently exclusionary in the preface. More to go back to what you said at the beginning of the show. Morrison does talk about Dante and like she's like parodies or does it work if there is an inferno like there isn't paradise isn't cool and worth it if everyone can come in. That's not how it works. Yeah well as a reader of that work I can also say if you ju- if it was just parodies without the other stuff we would not still be talking about seven years later. She says that's why inferno and its imagery sticks with you. A Dante wanted to write that stuff but like he wanted to write that stuff because it proves his later points I get or he thought anyway. so yeah it's IT'S A. I liked my time with this book but I was struggling through parts of it I that's always. I always find that super tough. And that's part of what the time crunch does I think like. I'm I'm torn because the time crunch means that you will finish it. Yes in a way that you might not if you're just if you're just reading trouble with it but the time crunch also means maybe you can't appreciate it as much on. Its on its own terms. Because you can't you don't have as many opportunities to step away and like chew on it. Yeah or individual chunks of it as I think that's true. I think this book might resonate more if you like. Let Yourself Linger with each chapter Though you might lose a sense of the interconnectedness if you go too slow I did find like I read like a chunk of it and then put it down to read another book for the show and then came back and I had like I had to do a little bit of catch up in terms of. Oh that person's this person. Oh Okay and part of that is. The book is actually deliberately obscuring people's identities during certain scenes or playing with dual identities. Or not telling you what someone looks like on purpose and that is something more since interested but it does make for more work again. She doesn't want you to read this while you're trying to go to sleep so it sounds like it would just be a read a difficult. It'd be difficult to do. Yes even if Morrison was like I made this. I made the sleepytime book just for you. It was still be difficult to but if she. That's not a time where I really like. My brain can be grappling with a lot of new ideas all at the same time. I WanNa know though now I want to know what a Tony Morrison. Sleepy time on purpose book would be like what is the. Toni Morrison Book. She wants you to read like three pages out of time before we go to sleep boy that be like we're still be goes to baby. They're still yeah and I think it would have to be like the same three pages over and over again because that's kind of how I am what. I'm trying to read something right before it's like well. This is where kindle says I am but I have to go back several taps before I remember i. I never like it when I opened the kindle and I'm on a pay double I can tell I I can tell when I've actually fallen asleep reading a book because just some chunk of text that has nothing to do with anything will be highlighted. Your Guard Asleep my finger on the screen and I accidentally highlighted some random chunk of nothing. And then I will. Thanks for helping me sort through this book. Andrew I hope is one of those is one of those ones where it's harder than usual for me as a as a non reader to try and help you through it but you know. Try to grab some structural things crash. A couple goofs scrapes. Couples did it. Se tells me we recorded fifty six minutes of audio so that what is podcasting but committing time to tape. I think people would dig this book if they're willing to put in the work and I think what it is exploring about black communities in Oklahoma in the Mid West during this timeframe is like stuff that is worth reading about. If you don't actually know that much about it and this is like an interesting way to to explore that that is not just going and reading a wikipedia page of history books. Sounds like if you are. If you're trying to break into Toni Morrison like do not do this. I would maybe start with Soula or beloved. Yeah this this is not babies. I Morrison I if you want to tell us what your first Morrison was. Hit US up. Overdue pot gmail.com or twitter dot com for more facebook.com Ze pod. Thanks to folks who've reached out to us in the past week including Margaret Aaron Amy Linda Peter and Peter Student who recommend the show to Peter Jon Katie Gerald Brittany Pimp Him Allegra and Rebecca many more Including OUR FRIEND KATE. Recall Lia from last week's last week Sr last week's episode. Andrew Vos leaks longer because we recorded it longer. Also we were. We were recording this like the day after that episode came out so timings meaningless meaningless and we have got a hold trip to Ohio. That's that's happening between now. Then so thanks to anybody of you. Who came out to our Ohio show at Kenyon College? I'm sure we had a great time with you if we didn't. Let's not speak about the unpleasantness. We'll put it up on the feet at some point. Who knows. Just yeah just sweep it under the rug and talk about it assuming it goes well. We'LL PUT IT UP. Who knows gala? If it doesn't then we'll just not have an episode that we count Spe- it'll be the great mistrial. We the price you pay. I don't know who you is. I will miss our I. I will miss our first on time posting in like five years to make yours about this inter folks WanNa know more by the show or should they go fish you go to Overdo podcasts. Dot Com Ras Internet website up there. We have links to apple podcasts. Google play our RSS feed also available on spotify stitcher. And pretty much else. You can find podcasts Also up there. We have a new listener. Page with episodes. We think are good. If you're trying to get into the show and you don't just want to start with a book you know Though that is also valid approach. We've also got a link to our Patria on page. This was a book recommended us by a Patriot listener. If you sign up at certain dollar amount which I forget where it is off the top of my head. I think it's like seven bucks a month. You can get a book on our list guaranteed. We've got a pretty long backlog but we are slowly working on making it nice of a like a two year backlog and more of like a twelve to eighteen months anything else negatively doing next week you have pulled up. I don't know that we have we know yet. When are we going to March okay? We'll release our march scheduled sometime this week. I think after we talk about it But don't forget to enjoy our bonus episode this month about the novelization of the sonic the hedgehog movie which is made several tens of millions of dollars fairly back. You gotta go fast to see this movie. Apparently I wasn't sure. Go see the movie but maybe we'll see after. I read the book. You know we talk about this later. I have a baby. I don't think I could see some movie theaters. But we'll talk about it all right everybody. Thank you for joining us for yet. Another podcast and so we talk to you next week. I'd be happy that was a hit gum podcast.

Tony Morrison Times Ruby Paradise Connie Who Vietnam Wolf Morrison Andrew Mavis Ruby Oklahoma Ohio Anthony Wofford Morrison Antho football US murder America Leon Toni
Hereditary

Now Playing - The Movie Review Podcast

1:35:56 hr | 2 years ago

Hereditary

"Stopping this. Do not tell what you're set. Do not match. Something is happening AMI only two could stop at your stand. I the only one who can fix this. This is now playing podcasts bonus Allah, we movie review of hereditary. It's heartening to see so many strange new faces here today. I know my mom would be very touched and probably a little suspicious. To see this Turner. A review selected by plug bean Becker, Mark ward. Was so good. Hosted by Arnie Stewart and Jacob they never had because they're all just like hopeless Pontus horrible hopeless machine. This podcast contains details, plots, boilers and harsh language, don't you dare. It me shit. Don't you ever raise your I end your mother? Listener discretion is advised. Who's gonna take care of me? Excuse me. Don't think I'm gonna take care of you. But when you die. Today. We're talking about hereditary starring Toni Collette, Alex Wolff Milly Shapiro with an Dowd and Gabriel Byrne directed by our ES ter-, this is Arnie one of the eight kings of hell and one of tonight's three Cobos have now play. Yeah. I'm the second severed head. This is Stuart. Jakup who rejects the trinity and happy Halloween. Be happy. How low we we. Hello. Be happy Halloween. Here's a free bonus show. Yeah. The real one. I know that some people were not so excited to get corn yesterday. That was supposed to be our Halloween show. Hey, you gave it more than a Pat of butter. I did I did it was a happy ending. I guess. That was like when you get those Bidault Honey, not real candy. King sized Snickers is going to the rich person's house like even the full size, candy bars. Something good for Halloween. There's no doubt about it. Hereditary was a bigger movie this year, then children of the corn runaway had more impact. It was from the beginning of the year a movie I heard tremendous buzz about so much that by the time, it came to Springfield sometime this summer, I felt like if you ever like a horror movie you were required to go. See it. I had it on my plans to watch. I had not seen it before this review. But I need to give a major shoutout to Mark ward. He's one of our pod being patrons. He came to us. After seeing we were going to be reviewing the witch. And was like, well, I need to hear you guys talk about hereditary. And so he Florida's by making the pledge to add it and because it's Halloween. We decided instead of keeping it as a patron show. We're going to do this as a bonus show. Oh for everybody. We've got so many shows coming out right now with Apocalypse Now on the patron feed for Veterans Day and all the m night Shyamalan films and Jamie Lee Curtis films on the donation feed. And of course, the spirit without let's give everybody a bonus Halloween treat in Nata trick. So thank you. Mark. The reason Mark wanted it reviewed as he had just seen it days before he pledged to us. He saw Australia, and what he typed was it hit Blu Ray in Australia, and I was absolutely flawed. And he honored us not just with the donation by. He said, we're his Goto reviewers, and he really wanted to hear our thoughts. And I hope I could gather them up for you. But when I saw this movie, I was also Lord I could not formulate opinion if we were doing it weaken have released would have been a lot of. I don't know. I mean, this was a true surprise. I feel like I've seen a lot of horror movies. I know what the -ticipant they named checked exorcist. I'm like, I think I know what movie I'm getting it's called hereditary gonna be something with a bloodline. But there are so many misdirections and strange narrative trips that this movie takes that it ended up surprising the lot. I had no idea what I had seen and I had no way of talking about it for several weeks. I right there with you Stuart because I was hyped for this. I heard the buzz coming out of Sundance people saying you got to see the trailer. It's gonna freak you out my wife, and I were excited to go. See this ready to go. See we can release which I had to go see ocean's eight instead. And so the second week incredible too. But I didn't care. I was going to see it because I'm like, I got to see this movie. I'll go to movies this week in which is tough when you got kids, but I pulled it off because I wanted to see this. I'm right there. Ricky Stuart I saw them like well that is not what I expected. We'll talk about it. But this movie takes a sharp left. When you think it's gonna go, right? I'd heard good things about it. And remember we reviewed it follows, and we reviewed yet out and these were films that really impressed me that were this type of sleeper horror hits that came out early in the year as so I got really excited when I heard of hereditary I was planning on watching it with without the show, then we reviewed the witch. And I have to say that now not so excited. I was being dragged by like fingernail claw marks were being left in the floor for me to watch this movie. I was like enough with his elevated bullshit just. Tired of it the which was a week or not recommend? But man, the longer I've sat with the witch the more it just infuriates me in certain regards, and I didn't want to watch that movie again. And here, I see this movie hereditary, it's got a little girl and of mother on the cover, and I'm just getting which vibes off of it. I came in a little bit reluctant. I mean similar to the witch. There is a big chasm between critics and audiences. This is another one where the critics loved it. And there's websites where you could gauge it as an audience and it didn't do so well with audiences but eight twenty four fours most successful film bigger than lady bird, which had an Oscar bump bigger than moonlight. Which won the Oscar kind of still not sure if it one that is a surprise. But again, this is a studio. I watched are people that anything that they put their imprint on. I will see that's how much implicitly. Trust their quality control. Not to say that I'm gonna love it. I oftentimes wrestle with it. But I know it's worth watching. And that's really all that I can ask when I go see nitty movie these days, please let it have more than preciousness and hereditary did. And of course, the thing about this one that makes it also hard to discuss is that it comes from someone. I don't know. I don't think the world knows much about. Ari astor? I say these first time horrid directors Jordan Peele. Yeah. He had a lot of TV. But then he does get out with the witch. That was a first time director, I guess horror is the go-to. It's always been the most profitable, John. But I'm shocked with these very artistic films coming out from these first time directors and their horror films yet I looked up he'd done shorts. That's it. So I didn't know what to expect. He's a grad of AFI, which is the program. Lynch came from. It is a very autour driven school. I do think of it as being where we've had a lot of distinctive voices coming out of that. So it's interesting, and I. Wonder what would have happened if he had to take a studio paycheck gig? Instead what I feel like we got was a film school movie that was funded with enough cash to get people like Toni Collette and Gabriel Byrne. But we are seeing something that doesn't go through the usual machinations of Hollywood thinking and for better for worse. That's part of the reason why it feels so different than your standard issue, hor Toni Collette, we're gonna be talking about her pretty soon with the six cents, you know. She's Austrailia n-. Yeah. I saw Muriel's wedding in theaters that was her breakout film. And I thought it looked really good. And I went and saw my remember he actually not liking it that well thinking of a little too weird. But I've seen her in stuff, but I never really thought of her as an above the title star. Yeah. I was surprised because little miss sunshine. I thought she was great in that. My wife was a big fan of the United States terror where she plays a woman with multiple personalities that I go to watch the extras for this. I'm like she's got an accent. She's australian. Blew me away. But wife didn't even know watching United States Tara, which is like three or four seasons, and it's been forgotten by now, but that fright night reboot. She was in that I think she's two sides. I do think she is known for kind of quirky comedy indie Sundance kind of comedies, but also has John recruit if you're making a horror film, she was in a big one with six cents fright night. She is capable of doing both. She's not snobby about it. She's happy to go in this direction. You say she's not snobby. She didn't wanna do these heavy dramas anymore. She said I just want to do some light easy comedies. But then she saw the script for this. She's like, well, I gotta do this. Now that is hysterical because a light funny comedy. This is not no this is an intense family drama or film. Yeah. And I do think earning his right to be afraid if he doesn't wanna see elevated horror that is the category. I would put it in this is a horror movie, but it is also a drama. It is a family dining if ordinary people had some demons in it. Now, I like ordinary people. It's funny 'cause I Br. Bought that movie up on a couple of recent podcast, just randomly. It's for some reason. Ben in my mind, we've been talking a lot about elevated and psychological movies. I guess and I brought that up, and I definitely saw that in this as we were watching it. It does feel like ordinary people the horror film, but I'm going to reiterate something every show we start by saying that there will be plot spoilers and harsh language big spoilers coming up for this one. Oh my God. If you have any interest in this movie stop hit stop now. And it pains me to tell people to stop listening, but stop listening. There's no turning back. Go watch it this show is the conversation for after you've watched the movie I can guarantee that no matter what we recommend or what we don't recommend. I recommend you hit stop. If you haven't seen it and go watch it before you listen further if you're. Interested in our conversation. Spend the two hours, and so it's not a short movie, but go spend that two hours watch the movie and then come back just trust me on that one. Yeah. And if you need endorsement outgoing and said I liked it when I first saw it. But I wasn't sure what I had just seen. And so this is the show where we're going to try and figure that out. I'm still not sure about that details. I'm still like, yeah, we're going to try and piece this movie together. But I don't mind go ahead and saying, I think people should see it. And I I think you should give him a plot. Now, Ellen Lee is dead. She was older she suffered from dementia and earlier in her life or mental illness had her alienating most of those around her including her family. So while Ellen's daughter, Anne eulogize is our mother. She doesn't miss her per se is played by Toni Collette, she's an artist that makes models kind of similar to the town, replica and Beetlejuice she lives with her husband Steve Graham played by Gabriel Byrne. Her pothead sixteen year old son, Peter. Alex Woolf and her awkward thirteen year old daughter Charlie played by Milly Shapiro. The family seems fairly normal even after Ellen's death. But Anne is having trouble coping and even sneaks out to go to a grief support group. This isn't her first bout with mental problems that she had a tendency to sleep walk and even woke up one night in her son's room. She'd covered herself, Peter and Charley and turpentine and was about to light them all on fire committing suicide as her brother had and now stop listening for God's sake. Stop listening and his grief intensifies, greatly when Charlie dies the girl was having lactic shock after eating a cake that had nuts in it. Peter tried to get Charlie to the hospital, but Charlie stuck her head out the car window to get air and was decapitated when Peter swerves to miss a dead deer on the road killing. All my theories about what was going to happen. Exactly thirty minutes in. I have no idea. What's going to happen in this film, shake Damian? I'm so confused. Now, everyone in the family is on edge with Anne blaming Peter for Charlie's death and Steve citing with Peter against his wife, but things take a weird change. When Anne meets Joan a woman played by an Dowd who claims to have been in the grief classes with Anne, though, Anne doesn't remember her Joan takes any to a seance where any is able to communicate with Charlie spirit. Charlie does seem to possess any then things continue to escalate and Peter starts to see things including losing control of his body and slamming his head into a school desk. Steve confronts, the any about what she's done to Peter's, mental states. But Anne is babbling about Charlie spirit and eating of Charlie sketchbook, and he had tried to burn it earlier, but she caught on fire along with the book. So she asked Steve to throw it in. He refuses. She does it prepared to sacrifice herself. But Steve flames and dies. Peter comes home to find his father's body smoking on the ground and his mother waiting to attack him she's now possessed in climbing the walls. A spider and moving at super speed. So Peter hides in the attic refined. Several naked cult members. He flies in and beheads herself with piano wire while Peter is captured by the cult. So here's the truth of it. And he's mother Ellen was a cult member. Joan was a friend of Ellen's the cult worship the demon called payment payment needed to inhabit, the body of a male host Ellen had tried to put payment in Peter as a baby, but because of the estranged relationship with Anne Ellen wasn't able to but Annie and Ellen reconcile is Charlie was born so payment was put temporarily in Charlie's body ever since Ellen died the cultist planned to kill the grams and put payment in Peter's body, which happens in the last few frames as credits roll. And that's a hell of a last movie. Dump? I just want to say, yeah, it sounded like you were crazy man, or it's the end. They're just naming everything that happens in this. Film. It's kind of a hard movie to summarize without starting with the spoilers about Ellen being a cult member and worshiping a demon called Peyman. But I did have to watch this movie twice. I watched it. And I'm like, okay. Let's do that again. Yeah. Watching it the second time knowing where it's going you can look for all these little hints about this aim in Colton catch a whole lot more and have a better sense of where this film's going because like you said that summary at the thirty minute Mark it totally throws you for a loop. I also just wanted to take a look at the family as well. Because I didn't suspect that for the longest time. There actually was a cult demon practices going on. And so what I wanted to say was not only how subtly is that stuff introduced. But also, what if this isn't a horror movie, what if this is just horror is the salt rim on the Margarita glass and what? We're really drinking is ordinary people. You mean the movie we're not just drinking the people ordinary people? The Robert Redford film from nineteen eighty I went into this movie knowing nothing about it. I've seen a trailer. But I couldn't remember anything in the trailer. I didn't rewatch the trailer before watching it. So I turn on this film. And yeah, it really is a drama, and I was thinking ordinary people a lot. And I knew that people told me this was a horror film. So in the back of my mind, I kept going with these theories of where's the horror? What's the horror going to be? But it was definitely not a horror movie by the classical sense. You don't have your opening scream like kill just to set the mood. This is going to live and die by its drama. Not by scares. Yeah. You go about an hour till you get the say on and I feel like that's really where the horror elements coming. Yeah. There's a little girl that's gonna get decapitated. But it's. A family trauma trauma, like dealing with all this death. And I don't think it's shot like a normal horror film like this house. It could be really creepy. Looking at this old house in the woods. But like the whites are always on. We've been doing all this are Gento stuff. I'm like every scene in those are gentle films. The lights are off. It's dark, and you got weird lighting to make it look spooky, and that's what you do in horror movies. This one not lights are on. It's bright. It's not like the conjuring or something. Like that. Even though it's a house that could seem really spooky it's not in just so it throws you for the first hour, especially this could just be about a family dealing with grief. It's certainly not your classical horror cinematography, but I was getting a Rosemary's baby kind of vibe some of that seventies horror because what you have is well lit spaces, but big empty spaces. You have people wandering around alone in this big house. And so that to me I felt like the visual look of this film. Always let me know that there was something. Possibly going on. It just kept me uneasy. Now, you still could keep me uneasy and a drama, but I just know that it was a little unsettling the way they were filming. And I think part of that is the score because this again, unlike most current horror films, I don't think there's a lot of jump scares in this one either there's a couple, but most of its atmosphere in that score is just going throughout this opening of this film when it's really just a drama, but it's such an airy score you're on the edge of your seat. Wait for something horrible to happen. It made me really nervous because it's like a heartbeat, and it just goes, and it doesn't stop. It doesn't exceleron it. It doesn't have a crescendo. There's just this noise behind it. Just. Constantly, and it is very effectively unnerving not only that but the sound design itself and definitely some of the camera tricks in here are going to disorient you because things that you think you hear actually something else. Like, we'll be listening to clucking sound. And we think it's a clock. And then we find out it's actually the vocal tic of Charlie or will be pulling in and looking at a diorama of a house. And then all the sudden, we realize dramas in folding in there, and that this is actually happening inside the house, and you wanna talk about layers yet. There's dollhouses that look like the house that anti-dole you've got this huge set. That's really just a Dollhouse that movie makers created, and then you also got this whole team of Greek plays in literature where what is more tragic to be in control of your life or not to be in control of your life. So I just feel like there's all these like literally at one point we're gonna see one of Anne's creations where it's just houses. Stacked on top of each other. And I feel like that theme run throughout this Ville. Yeah, it's the interplay is that she's creating precious little worlds where real drama that has happened to her. She's restage ING with miniatures. And then all the sudden sometimes we're watching the drama, and we're suddenly aware of the proscenium and that we're watching it through a stage of some kind and you're right. They'll even be dialogue. Once we get to the high school about Sophocles, and it is very postmodern in that way. I do know this director cited one of his big creative. References was Peter Greenaway. And I don't feel like many people know that director anymore his most famous films the cook the his wife and her lover. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He made everyone watched that movie, even though it's not a horror film. I've never seen it. I can't endorse but I've seen many of his works because they are so beautiful. He is essentially a painter, and he kind of treats film, like a sketchbook. And so there's always almost like a laundry list of things. He does and it feels very pretentious. But also, very beautiful. He did chick spears the tempest. He gave you an McGregor one of his earliest roles and pillow book, it's kind of like watching a living painting unfold. And sometimes there's a plot. And I wonder in the way that this is staged. It's very pretentious the way that this movie is put together does it earn its pretensions. You talk about pretensions and thinking like Wes Anderson who I love I love everything meticulously designed plays. I don't feel like this is in that same category. Yeah. There is a lot of thought put behind it. But it is forcefully pushing a theme like with exclamation marks throughout when you're looking for it. And I don't have a problem with that. Here's what I think really helps it earned that the actors they cast when I saw Gabriel. Byrne was in this my first thought was that guy from usual suspects. I haven't seen him since end of days and Toni Collette I knew and these kids, I didn't know I'm haven't seen Mathilde on Broadway. So that actress she got a Arnold. Mary Tony for that role as Matilda, and I should say she is very strange looking. They did play up there is makeup involved with that. She doesn't actually look like that though. She has an unconventional look. Yeah. I had to look that up because I'm like did they find a girl who just looks like she'd been hit repeatedly in the face with a frying pan used makeup and things to play it up. This cast pulls me in with the atmosphere and everything. Yeah. It is pretentious. But that's not always a bad thing. If you can live it up. It's like going all in you know, when you're playing poker. If you're going to be this pretentious, you're going in your hand better be strong, and he's got four aces in this cast. Yeah, I'll agree with that one of the things I really keyed into this viewing was how any has recreated her own childhood family dynamic. We will learn as we attend this funeral. Her mother ruled the roost the dad barely factors and barely gets mentioned died before she died and Ellen what? She said what she does is the way that it went for Anne as a child equally true now that she's raising her own family. Her husband, Steve barely gets a word in he's a therapist. He's usually listening, and he is usually letting her have the floor. I didn't even know St. was therapist until I watched the deleted scenes, and it gets mentioned one of them and the deleted scenes, a lot more Peter, and Steve who I feel they are more passive in this cut of the film, but there are scenes where they become a little bit more active participants. But I don't think that's the right instinct, I like how this is set up hereditary. These men are being treated the same way that the grandmother treated the men in her life, and she has two children a boy and a girl she had a brother who died by hanging named Charles. And now she has a daughter that is named Charlie and a son that's older Peter that she doesn't get along with very much. She's much closer to Charlie than she is to Peter. And so is that her. Hereditary is that something in her family some issue she had with her brother dying and the dynamic that created for her childhood. Is that part of the reason why she can't connect to our teenage son the movie being titled hereditary, it's funny because we had a conversation when we picked this movie, and we're all like, oh, we're doing heredity. None of us noticed the are in it. That was me. Well, those metoo. Yeah. I've made the mistake too. So I never thought about what the title meant until I'm watching this. And we get this opening at the funeral and it actually starts at the obituary. And I read that like first of all it's really tiny white text on a big black screen was a little bit difficult to watch on television. And then I'm thinking is going to be her coming back from the dead. What is it about this woman? But we get any giving the eulogy which is a bit unusual to have the family member eulogizing, the parents, but she talks about being difficult, and she talks very soon about mental illness. And all of a sudden it hits me I thought coming in hereditary, maybe there is going to be a disease or pathogen or something. And now, I'm thinking, this is about mental illness, isn't it? This is going to be about mental illness passed from grandmother to mother to daughter. That's what I thought it was about. Going in. Okay. This is about that DNA getting handed down. I don't think that's what it's actually about. And it's interesting just being married and having someone with a more objective. You like they'll be things. I'll be renting I hate when my dad would do this when I was a kid, and then my wife's like will you do that same thing? And so I think that's what this film is really getting into it. It's not necessarily the DNA though. That's what you think it is that the red herring of the film. It is all those other weird quirks that recre- on that think it's an interplay between three things I mean, I do think the modern scientific approach might be what genes have you passed along that would include mental illness. What of it is learned behavior? And then what of it is old world. This family is just cursed. That's where the demons and stuff come in. There's different ways that you can look at it. And certainly when you look at plays and tragedies of ancient Greece. They didn't have that modern psychology. They look at things about being fate and demons gods. And so there's that reading to this as well. And I was reading up on payment like because. A real Colt demon figure, and what I could tell it comes from a Dutch occultist and physician from the fifteen hundreds. And what's interesting is he was against which trials he's gotta stop accusing women of being witches. And he really coined this idea of mental illness and say, no these women are in which is there's something wrong with their brains. But he's also really into like studying demon. So I do know the director researched all this cult stuff. And I do think that is in there. So any big payment fans out there this works on multiple levels. I thought it was pretty up on my evil, but I'd never heard of payment. The thing that kept going through my head though was something Stewart said during the witch I knew this was going to be elevated horror, and he said one thing about elevated, horrors when you can have the conversation of is the horror real or is it in somebody's head as so that is Ben my reading of this movie through to watchings, you could definitely take this as we're going to take everything we see on the screen is very literal that we have in. Objective narrator, and what we see people climbing on walls, people spontaneously combusting ghosts all real or I think this movie could be viewed just as equally as our subjective narrator is insane. And we're seeing everything through the point of view of Anne and seeing what Anne siese or later on what Peter sees as the mental illnesses passed down to him as well. And again, I think perspective is blurred. We oftentimes have a hard time reading who is the point of view character. I tend to look at Toni Collette because she's giving an incredible performance. And because she is star. And this is her movie. But when it's all over I think we realized it's also Peter story as well. In the first time, I watched this. I did look for that more allegorical reading is this an allegory of what it's like as Peter's developing schizophrenia, which is very clever when you watch the film, you go back when Annie's editor group, and she's talking about her brother was schizophrenic and thought. Mom was trying to put people into him while she was because that's what happens in the story. But I'm like, okay. Is this about him dealing with that schizophrenia and hearing voices and just developing that, and this is just not scary way. To portray that my reading on this movie, the entire time was this is all in her head until the very last scene where I went. Nope. Are maybe. Right. And that was exactly where I was which is again, why you have to have that second watching because it believes in the Colt it has a stronger reading and feel for the Colt than I was prepared for it to do. There's a lot of stuff early in the film that I didn't recognize hor there's a triangle painted ground in couldn't tell if it was painter if it was leg, somebody got a ram Loughton, carved it into the floor of the old woman's bedroom. I mean Annie's wearing that payment symbol around her neck, and we'll see that throughout this fill. And what is that depicting? It looks like something phallic in triplicate. It might be an actual payments symbol, the director discovered. While just researching this I know what I'm getting Marjorie for Christmas, necklace, triple phallic necklace. But the real sign of creepy nece is Charley, right. First of all again. They just made her look creepy, and I couldn't even get a beat on her age because movies also play with this. I'm like she could be. Eight to fifteen somewhere in that big range, and she finds a dead bird and cuts its head off at his making figurines out of it. I'm like, this is our serial killer. Yeah. That's what you think. When she cuts that head up. We'll see you're making these figures, and you go hereditary her mom's artists she's carrying that on. Maybe that's why her mom has more affection for Charlie than Peter who they have very tense relationship. We'll find out why later on. But. Yeah. Once she cuts that head off, Mike. Okay. Here's your Damian. I found this really funny, and I was bummed that I didn't know about this on release as part of viral marketing, Charlie studio, actually opened up an see store where you could buy her little figurines, and they sold twenty four of them to an unsuspecting public none with actual bird heads, but you can go to Oetzi and look for crafts by Charlie g and you can see the twenty four dollars that they sold on there. That was a little bit creepy to what about the mother's art. Is there anybody who's like I? To go. See many cheers of strangers homes. Totally. I totally did miniatures. Yeah. If you've been museum, there's something for whatever weird art, you're into so. Yeah. I don't think this is too weird. Yeah. Have miniatures out there their autobiographical. I mean, it's like someone painting self portrait but doing so in a Dollhouse there so creepy because you hear the story about how when Anne had Charlie. She finally reconciled with the mother and the mother's like I need to feed it. And then you see that miniature of the mother reaching over anti to take Charlie with their breasts hanging on you're like, ooh, this is really weird and creepy Charlie is the favourite that is the thing that is stated when they come home from this field role and Charlie moping by herself that she was the favourite one of L is she grieving because grandma's gone. We know that Peter didn't really care. He's kind of tuned out. He's a pothead. He's just doesn't care about his family in general, and Steve is so much the therapist that he's concerned about how everyone else is feeling. He's not going to tell you how he's feeling. So it's really for mother and daughter to process what's happened here. And why we're paying so much attention to Charlie is because she's special needs. Right. I mean, I was reminded of video I watched in health class so many years ago on progenies. There's something about the way she looks that looked prematurely aged like maybe she is the reincarnation of Ellen or something. I actually thought she looked and I mean, no ill to this little girl. They did play this up. But my immediate reaction was like a slightly toned down version of Eric Stoltz in mask. Yeah. There's facial deformity. I wasn't sure if there was learning disability because she's doing things like sleeping out into cold in a tree house and most people know if it's cold you better go inside. And then of course, the vocal tick the thing that really we'll exploited later for jump scares. And Astor has said, and I got it on the second viewing more than the first time. Because I just this movie threw me for a loop first time, but Heymann has always been in her sense L and got a hold of her payment has been in her and has been controlling her. He can't control the DNA because she has a peanut allergy which is going to be fatal. Or maybe that was all part of the plot of this cult who knows? But yeah, she is never been a normal girl. According to the director, at least that was kind of my reading on the second watching as well, and we sort of get that because she's sitting in class they're supposed to be taking a test, and she's just kind of staring off into space. Yeah. She's working on one of her little dolls. I believe she's making her father burned is what it looks like to me. Oh that what she was doing. I saw her staring at scissors on the teacher's desk. And I'm like if she going to go insane. What's going to happen here? All the things she's making. She's obviously psychic. I assume that just from seeing her characters in these kinds of movies, always have clairvoyance. So the fact that when she asked her mother what's going to happen when you die who's going to take care of me. I think well Tony co is definitely marked she's marked for death. And maybe this little girl will be in some way, responsible for it. Or the very least will know when it's coming does. She know her own death is coming. She's drawing that bird head with the crown on it. She seems on some level and again, maybe it's subconscious. Maybe none of these characters can really realize what's going on. That's something that said within the movie is tragedy. That's the Greek tragedy is that they have no control of their fate. And that is depending on your view more tragic than if you control it. Yeah. So maybe Charlie is just a part of that tragedy in the sense that she is compulsory to do things and draw things that are of her own doom that she is essence and seeing this bird seeing her own decapitation. Later that day. I go a step further. If this is payment, he wants it. He wants out of the Charlie body. He wants into the Peter body. He wants the ceremony and so more than clear voyeur. This is a plan. He knows what the cult is going to do. He knows how everything's going to go one thing that I read on trivial, but did not catch onto watchings the telephone pole decapitates her later on as a payment symbol on it. Yeah. You didn't notice that the first time. I watched on like what does that mean? Okay. I was too busy picking my job off the fuck Lor. Well is forced to take Charlie to this high school party? Yeah, they drive by that site post, and when the cargoes by there is that symbol there. And I'm like Hon. Twenty Colette had that necklace with that same symbol. What does that mean? Something's going on. Okay. Yes. Payment may be in her if you're inclined to believe in old world superstitious reading she may be possessed by a demon. But she. He is not payment. This is a little girl. I don't believe that she's faking it the way that Damien will be like, oh, I'm just a little kid while I saw the branches on the tree house and make my friends fall to their death. She just wants to have a nice life. Right. I mean, I don't get the sense that she's plotting to kill herself or to kill someone else. She's not evil is by point. No, I don't think she's evil, and I do think she's evil. You think that she's consciously aware that she is a satanic demon jumping into the body of art, brother. Yeah. I do not. I didn't read it that way at all. Yeah. I never got that sense. The way this character is played. She's very aloof very disconnected. She's to human. Yeah. I see I think she's not human. She's very cold. I mean, the fact that she sleeps out in the cold. But also she doesn't want to go to the party. She doesn't want to interact with anybody when I see a little girl cut the head off dead bird. There's something creepiest fuck about that. And I thought that was the turning point for her that this is when she is going to go Dame. But. You know, what she's got some kind of physical deformity in the film that they play up. So I'm like, yeah. Maybe she shied. She doesn't want to be around people. She'd rather be an artist be alone creating things creating a world where she's more comfortable because she feels like an outsider. She can't eat things without making. There's not nuts. And she's weird looking all this stuff. I didn't take that as evil know, exactly. She is a little girl that might have a demon inside her. That is. Yeah. Playing the waiting game. And so she's two at once. And I think it's true for a lot of the characters. I think that might also be true for Toni Collette, and certainly for Peter is like they don't know what's waiting for them. But on some level. They do I do like the way that they drop her peanut allergy earlier when they're going to the other like you have the pen and having cake, as you sure there's no nuts in it it at least feels natural knowing people with peanut allergies and people with children, peanut allergies. It's a conversation. You hear a million times? But you're watching a movie I'm like that's gonna come into play. Yeah. I thought it was. A little obvious. And when she's at the party, I'm like come on. You got nut allergy? You're not researching the stuff, and you're not caring your epi pen with you. But maybe that is payment involvement here. He's like leave the pen behind. You're gonna have some nuts tonight. Yeah. Again, I don't sense that she's suicidal. I sense that she's a little girl at her brother's party that is cringing embarrassment, and we know that her Goto food specifically chocolate she'll pull out that chocolate bar just to give some kind of comfort, and it's just a brief shot of someone dicing up nuts while they're making that chocolate cake, you wouldn't necessarily know they were so finely ground that it has the gallery in it. The theme is if you were paying more attention, you could have avoided this. He said he wasn't going to go drinking. Well, he's getting stoned. The point is he's not paying attention to his sister. And she's not paying attention to what's being put in her chocolate. And consequently, they have to flee this party and get to the hospital. Now the way this scene is shot. And you see your kind of gasping for air and writhing around the back seat. You see him driving? You see a roll down the window? Now, I knew something was going to happen here. I didn't know what the way she was fumbling for that window. I thought maybe she was going to have the car door open, which I actually had happened to me when I was six of course, seat belts in the seventies. I thought maybe she was going out that way then the paper start flying around. Peter gets distracted from thinking car accident. She doesn't have a CPA on she's going to fly through. I know ver- saw that they would decapitate her. She's on the cover. I didn't think she was getting out of this film. Anyway, I thought she'd be there the whole time when her head hit that post we've talked about how here in the mid west people don't usually make noises during films we'll laugh little bit. We don't applaud at the end because the projectionist did good job when this happened. I'm in my house, and I just go I just like an involuntary guttural happened when I saw that. I didn't know there is going to be decapitation. I knew from the hype there's people that said they were physically revolted by something in this film. I didn't know what it was. I need something gross was coming. But it is just so sudden, and because your expectation is she's going to be the evil demon running around. Yeah. When she loses her head while just shocked. I don't know what this film is anymore. It's an instant recommend for this moment for getting the reaction from me, whatever I think about the rest of this movie to get a reaction like that recommend. Yeah. What are he asked or has done is recreated? The psycho showers is actually managed to do that for our generation, we usually have everything spoiled, and somehow I didn't know about this. I'm hoping the secret was kept from most people that come to this film. And it's just devastating for lots of reasons. Of course, it's a small child being decapitated that in of itself horrific and to all of our theories about what she might represent and what was going to happen next out the window with her head. Yeah. And they don't. Will the punches on this either? I mean, we're going to see the next morning the heads rotting with bugs on it. I mean that is truly the most classical horror thing as far as gore and things go is that but also Peter is in shock. He stops the car, and you don't know what he's going to do you're going to call nine one one. What's he gonna do? He drives home and gets in bed, which I understand when you're in total shock like that. You're not responsible for your own actions. You do things that may not be logical. And this is what I like about elevated hor because this is not what would happen typical horror movie. This is a human drama dealing with grief and shock like I am just amazed. You watch Peter drive home get out of the car get into bed go to sleep. And then when you gotta hear Anne screaming and crying when she goes out to the car to go get something, I might forget that this is a horror movie, this is just a great drama at this point the next morning were it's all told the cameras stays on Peter who's in. In bed, and you just hear the parents getting ready for their day and going out to the car and martyrs where like the body of the car on my God the bodies in the decapitated. Oh my God. And he's here. Then shriek that shriek hit me like a follow up punch. It was like a one to jab the one being the decapitation and the two being the very real reaction. I would think I mean, hopefully, nobody ever knows, but the pure destruction of soul that Toni Collette portrays onscreen, the anguished Wales I felt so bad for her. And I knew she was going to blame Peter. And I knew I couldn't blame Peter. I'm just going to say now, you get that scene where she's rolling around on the ground saying, I just wanna die give the woman the Oscar. Now, why do we gotta wait till February just she is amazing in this film. I don't know what hereditary would be without. Tony just like, I don't know. What will I do know what the shining it'd be without Jack Nicholson experience that it's not good. But. Toni Collette just so mazing in this and just sells the horror the sorrow, the grief, everything I agree with what you guys are both saying, but I also want to underline Ari ASTA is doing something very interesting by obviously Toni Collette would come to her son and ask questions and some kind of state, but we are never to see those moments the way that he will frame this drama. It is as if neither will speak to the other about what has occurred and that creates incredible tension that will carry on for the next half hour until they finally sit down to a dinner table, and she can finally voice, what's in her mind. But to know that there's this much between them the elephant in the room is the severed head of the youngest member of this household that isn't incredible weight to carry for the audience and for the characters for thirty minutes. Yeah. I feel like there's a tension for the next thirty minutes of your weighty. Great wise Noah talking about this. You had a dead decapitated daughter. Why's everyone just in their rooms we need to talk about this. What is there to say? I don't know. What feels like that's something? You should talk about. Yeah. Everything to say is that when something tragic happens, we as a society need to talk. I mean, we're built on top. We're podcasters. Of course, we are inclined to talk. But this is a dysfunctional household where people make art instead of talking or they smoked dope instead of talking, and because guess for lots of reasons we can only speculate what Peter must be thinking. We see him voiding. He comes home really late after school. He in a deleted scene goes to sleep in the tree house, not realizing his mom was already there. He is doing his best to not have that moment with his mother. Some of it is obviously oh my God. I feel so bad that I guilt her some of it is that I don't know if my mom can handle it because she's on her best day hanging by a threat. Of course. I just can't even imagine we're looking at the movie. Ordinary people which does deal with the death of a sibling and adolescent teenage boy, visiting a therapist. It's the same dynamic, the more popular child is the one that died, and the one that survives has incredible survivors were more spent guilt and fights with his mother all the time. And just yeah. It is that you think about it, even if you were the favorite child if you capitated your sibling, even on accident. It's gonna be really hard for the parents to get over that I could very easily see a fifty fifty chairs of that turning adversarial. And now I'm into this movie as drama. Yes. The horrific thing is you have decapitated little girl that's more enough. But I'm into this family into their dynamic. He is suckered me in. I can't look away from this film. It could just be a drama from here on out. But these people and that scenario coming out of nowhere. It's so rare that I actually like a car accident death in a movie, I think so. Many movies where they just decide to turn on a dime. Oops, look at the randomness of life. We got hit by a car. But this one God me, I mean, I like dramas and Manchester by the sea did this recently. I mean, I definitely would be cool. If this movie were just that film. I see a lot of those provocative dysfunctional family is what you usually expect to come out of Sunday. It's not a horror film. But I wanna point out. They have laced this all with horror moments throughout all of this from the earliest beginnings, anything she sees her mother's ghost in the work study when she turns off the light and Charlie thought she saw Ellen out in a field by a burning fire. The husband even has gotten a call the grave has been dug up someone desecrated Ellen's tombstone and dug up the body. They have been telling us if you're paying attention again. That's the big theme of this movie that Ellen is here among them doing some mischief. And I'm definitely seeing a lot more of these. Of course, I saw the goal. Mom, and the fire and all that the first time I watch us. But there are other little things that I'm picking up the second time knowing where the story is going at one point Peter is just smoking some weed underneath the bleachers and his throat tightened. If feels like oh that payment or Charlie is now gone into him. And he's starting to inherit some of those traits that she at which is what the story is gonna tell us that yet Charlier payment goes into Peter by the end of this, and we'll see those little things throughout. I had no idea where it was going. But I thought maybe he'd be the next to die. I don't know this actor and physically he just did not look like the song of their union doesn't look like their offspring. Yes. He has some eyebrows. That just a grab what's really funny is. Apparently, this is the second time he has played Gabriel Byrne's son, somebody thinks they look at like, I don't think they look like at all I, but I really thought he might be the next to go. It's Gabriel Byrne. Honestly thought he would step up in this movie more. He ever does. He seems to have come in. But like, I'm not going do an American accent. I'm not going to die. I'm gonna come in. I'm gonna give great line readings. But I'm not here all that much. Anyway. No, the men in this family are not the focal point even though payment wants that male body. It's all about the women. Yeah. The focus of that. And again that you're thinking about match or linearly following that genetic line. Yeah. Is this something that has been passed on not through Gabriel Byrne, but through Toni Collette character that Souflias meeting Peter once he's now having visions possibly schizophrenic or more likely if we're to take the ending literally demonic possession and the next surprise is. I think the movie's weakest, I know very well aunt, Lydia is evil. But they want us to think that Joan is just a friendly person at the support group who is going to help Annie through some processing this grief whose aunt Lydia and out is in Handmaid's tale. Which is a popular show on foolish. Yeah. And she's amazing that when I saw this. I'm like chick's really familiar who's that? And I go to after that was aunt Lydia. Looks amazing for some makeup honor your hair little bit aunt down. Great aunt Lydia is horrifying. I highly recommend the leftover. She was incredible. And that also a villain character, although a complicated one and a movie called compliance. She should won the Oscar for she was absolutely fantastic. Love to see her in anything. But she such a big presence to me again. Maybe if you don't know her you just think, oh, I'm not paying attention to this character because she's outside of this weirdo. She's a flake at first. And what does she understand about all the terrible things going on in this Dollhouse? But in fact, she knows everything because she's Ellen's old friend, and she is going to make sure that the transference of Peyman takes place. Here's what I will ding this movie on even after two watchings. And maybe you guys will disagree with me. I'm the. Newbie here. I'm the one who's just seen this phone for the first time. So my opinion here may change, but I feel some of the storytelling regarding Joan and the Colt and their relation to Ellen is a little too obtuse a little clunky. And it comes about in organically when they go to Joan's house, and she has some weird doormat that looks like a very thin pillow. And she talks about having bought it at a craft show. And but anti recognizes it as their mothers embroidery, right? Yeah. I thought it was pretty obvious that they're telling us something was going on. I knew something was going on. I feel like when we are finally told about payment. It's too late. Their stuff dropped in the models. That Anne is building. They're all these Latin words put up there. I don't know what any of the MIR throughout the house there on the walls throughout the house. And she seen them. I think they're just creepy words. Some of them actually do mean stuff just old Latin or whatever. But yeah, I think it just gives this vibe that Anne and his family is not Incan. Troll. There's something pushing them along to your point Arnie. I think it's definitely worth asking is this movie to loosen the editing. It's over two hours at somebody's. I film did he not have control over this. Or is he a genius for creating all of these misdirections first film? It's hard to know if I had more to look to if I could say, oh, that's his style. He usually does that that might help you process this. But because we have really nothing to point to. I don't know I can say that I'd never feel bored by this film. But I do wonder in processing all of the red herrings and just all of the meticulous details. Are they all important? I know they're not all important to me, but maybe to someone else's reading because this movie invites multiple interpretations other people say, oh, no, you can't cut all the stuff about the say on. That's so super important. I do agree. It's the least interesting part of the movie, partly because I'm onto Joan. I know what she's trying to do. I figured Joan was something the fact that any drove to that support group again. And what I didn't catch the second viewing. Did you guys notice that with the mail? They have this shot of the mail being delivered after the funeral and there's a pamphlet for visiting a psychic. Yeah. No. It's a fire force aons this Colt is true in all these different things to try to push this along. So we gotta get a say on somehow. So maybe they'll show up at this when no that didn't work. So now, we need Joan to try to get anti participate in this asked her said if the plot to put the deer on the road to get Charlie decapitated didn't work they had other plans to bring this about. Yeah. We don't have the movie told from their perspective. And in fact, none of the characters that were following with the exception of Joan who's popping up late. And now we're into this film have any insight into what's going on. So like they said about the Greek tragedy were watching people that can't read. Signs, if they could they would know what was happening and they could avoid it. But they're talked into a it's called a seance. But really it some other religious, right? It's obviously some incantation meant to help the spirit transfer from Charlie into Peter. I love that. Yeah. There's a seance. You gotta read these words and Jones like be sure to read this when everyone's in the house and everyone keeps anti ask. And Steve ask what language is this just feels something like evil dead. You gotta read the evil spelled bring it there. But I think it's funny everyone just keep saying well language is this. Yeah. I just thought it was going a different way. I thought it was going more exorcist and less. Rob zombies. Lords of Salem. I haven't seen. Lord, Salem, got some exorcist it again, there's things to look for. There's a light that you'll see that is payments spirit or whatever. And during the say on that is going to enter into anti that light that comes. Like this laser light. It's almost like Michael Jackson's rock with you video from the seventies. You know, what I thought that was I thought that was fire because Annie had talked about almost lighting herself. And Charlie and Peter on fire. She sleepwalked she came in. She covered them all with the paint thinner. She was going to burn them all up. So I thought this might be like this occurrence at Alloa creek bridge or Donnie Darko like all vision in the last moments in this light, you see is the blue flame that spreading actually schizophrenics talk about seeing this kind of stuff all the time. It is a very good visual representation of schizophrenia. So just going to throw that out there. It's playing with you. I mean payment makes the most sense by the end of this film, but you can have whatever reading you want. You can have an old world superstitious reading, you can have a psychological breakdown. You can look at these characters. However, you want it's just tragic to me because at this point. Any is trying very hard to bring her family together in her mind. Having say ons is going to bring them together. Steve is horrified as a man of modern science. He doesn't want to have anything to do with as a cult ritual, and Peter, of course, doesn't even want to see his mother there's been so much that's gone between them, and when you find out that he woke up. Yeah. As said woke up one night of become paint thinner with his mom striking a match. She will tell him. I never wanted to have you. I tried to miscarry. I didn't want you in my body. That's a lot to process. Yeah. It gets heavy even though I think the second hours when the horror really kicks it you still get these moments. You get the confrontation between Anne and Peter at the dinner table right before the CEO that is hard that seen as somebody who had some issues with parents those fights were hard for me to watch. I really they struck a chord in me that was like unpleasant and then the. Deal that yes, she tried to kill Peter when he was in the womb like, you don't need this horse stuff. This is a gripping drama of people but in trying to make amends for that. Because I truly believe that Anne doesn't want to feel that way. I think that's what it really is. She does feel that way. And she tells him I wish I could forgive you. But I can't but in trying to do. So maybe if Charlie is not gone. Maybe if we can summon the spirit and have her here with us again. Maybe that will be the thing that bring us together. It's actually tearing this family even further apart. Well, any is acting like a crazy woman? I mean, we are being shown this movie a lot from Annie's point of view, as so we can understand her rationale about why she's acting the way she's acting. We see everything she sees. But if you just take a step back imagine being Steve coming home one day and your wife who has had some emotional trouble. Because lost her mother and her daughter in various short secession, and is now babbling it's like a manic depressive type of thing where now she's having this manic episode where she can't talk. She's talking so fast. You just can't stop talking as she's shaking. If she's got everything everybody has to come together. Do this crazy thing right now I've seen manic depressive, and this does not ring false now. And again, I have sympathy for her when I put her story together. Of course, she wouldn't want to have Peter if you had the family dynamic that she did to know that she could have a son that has schizophrenia to remember what happened to her brother. And know that her crazy mother couldn't wait to get the baby out of her. She had to cut all of that out in order to even go through with it. I mean, her mom didn't allow her to miscarry protected the child that much, but she kept the mother away from Peter. And that's probably why payment isn't there from the inception and us why they have Charlie and you see payments influence if you believe. The payment going on in this Bill after this. You get this great remain toll about the sleepwalking the paint intervene at this dream sequence. Where the answer now covering Peter's face and anti goes in there, and they're arguing and I just love how it cuts back and forth. And all the sudden, they're soaking wet. I'm like, wait. What just happened? Oh, this is the paint thinner now and like flame start going up. It just starts going crazy wants to say on happens and payment gets more control of this family. I thought it was Charlie. And she says I love how when Joan does the say on the first thing he does is look under the table. Where's the magnets? Where's the trickery? And Steve will do the same thing. It's the only thing this movie that tells me, oh, yeah. Those two should be married. But if she talking about Charlie her daughter are Charles again, I think part of the reason why she recoils from her son is that he probably looks and acts just like the brother that was schizophrenic that killed himself. And that's why she just can't love him the way that she loved Charlie. And so you ached for all of these people because. Who they are keeps them apart. When you blunt see them come together, so very badly, and Charlie or payments, something that resembles the girl that they raised is upstairs. Now still drawing in that book. We have lots of scenes of pages flipping by themselves new illustrations of Peter screaming with his eyes blacked out. We know that the book is going to be significant as it always has has foretold the future. It drew the head of the bird before it was cut off. And now, it is telling us something is going to happen to Peter. And if you see what Anne finds out about payment when she looks for the book and her mom's box belongings. He is a God of mischief, and I feel like that is what's going to happen with this book. And he's gonna throw it in the fire. She starts on fire puts it out. And so again messing with our expectations later on relief. She's the one who's gonna burn but God mischief he's tricking everyone to get what he wants. And again, I'm wondering is she sleepwalking is she actually setting herself. On fire, and there is no book or at least not in her hand. What is going on? Or is. She just burning the book, but having this vision that she's being caught on fire. There's so much going on. Meanwhile, again, Gabriel Byrne's Steve does not have much to do with this film. But he keeps getting these phone calls, and this is in the first hour when it's mostly drama not a lot of horror, but you just keep hearing grave desecration and things like that. It's like something's going on with the mother's body. I can figure that out that she's missing is gone. Eventually, we'll see photos confirming that, but the fact that she's been a ghost in this house has told me that really from early on that it wasn't a surprise to find out that the mother is still a force to be reckoned with even in death. We got that sense even from. Yeah. The eulogy was that this woman is not going to stay down easy. And this is awesome around the same time. Any is finding an old photo book and seeing that Ellen in the past new for the whole time Joan Joan was a friend and was there at weddings at religious events, and she should be afraid of this woman and is during this scene where we discover payment. It's the first time we hear the name or see the name on the screen. I don't know how I feel about it would prefer to be in a boy's body. I'm not sure what to make of that normally in movies that underlying gender differences. That's what the movie's about here. It just seems like a weird conceits of like, well, that's the reason why Charlie didn't stick. But it says in the text you can read pause. The book says it can't take female form. It just prefers a boy. Yeah. I mean, it was injured nearly for what thirteen years because that's what was going on with all the weird grandma breastfeeding. When when they said that the grandmother was feeding I thought they meant like with a spoon in a baby jar when you see the. Dia ram until you see that miniature. She still taking those that happen. I do get the feeling Ellen payment was in her. And then she put it into Charlie. She tried to put it into her, son. But he killed himself thinking he was schizophrenic, and yeah, they've been waiting for that male host. This is where the movie gets this weird pagan colts movie and with all their rituals, and you're just not expecting that out of nowhere. So you're seeing all these allegories about family trauma handed down through generations or maybe handed down through generations. Now, it's like I get into gender issues. All of a sudden. Yeah, it's like I was drinking the Margarita, and it stopped being tequila was all salt all of this is horror movie. There's nothing elevated about any of this stuff. It is exactly as you would expect in any horror movie. This is a devil cult Rosemary's baby has been mentioned exorcists like we're just dealing with a manifestation of evil, and they have to fight that. But by the time, they get to fighting it it is far too late. And I wanna give a shout out to Alex Wolff. He is really pulling me along. It wasn't sure I felt about him when he was a stone or hanging out with his friends, but quickly the friends dropped by the wayside the girl who's asked. He was staring at in class goes away. We're focusing on him and dealing with this drama, and he selling every moment of it. But the scene where he gets possessed in class, and he like raises his hand and the teacher thinks he's going to ask a question and just the weird body motions. I don't know if that was CGI or some kind of mine the fact that I don't know makes me like it even more slamming his head into that desk. So damn hard. Wow. Yeah. This is we're though I'm like, okay. What is the analogy? What's the allegory, whatever you wanna call it, the metaphor here because if payment wants this meal host, and I'm assuming he's taking Peter over why these slamming the face down and contorted maybe he just getting used to it. It's like being John Malkovich. And he just learning to control that body. No, they say the body needs to be weakened. So he can enter okay, we've actually seen Joan. Across the street trying to help this process along shouting encouragement to the demon out. Like, I mean, I don't know if it's technically helping at all, but it's telling us as an audience member that this is as I suspected with Charlie. There is an original soul. They're fighting off trying to ward off something that is subsuming it and to look at the other metaphor. I don't know enough about schizophrenia did know is it more commonly metro Linley passed along to mail. It does it prefer. I don't know if it's passed the Mamba males do suffer from a more and Peter if he's sixteen he's a little young usually it's early twenties that typically manifest, but I guess for storytelling. Why not sixteen k is the age that Charles was when he thought that there were people inside him, and he hung himself, and Peter I don't know what's going on. When we've seen that little leg. Talked about the blue ring linked to Strom or something coming down when he sees it as classroom. I thought he would go to see Charlie's ghost because we'd seen the grandmothers goes earlier, and they just had the say when he looks into that mirror and sees evil Peter staring back at him. Again. The guy just cells that scene really well with the facial expression. And that is Irie. And I'm still thinking these are all people I still I think you could would credits roll walk out of their thinking. This is just all schizophrenia even more than that. We're hearing that sound that was like the biggest jump scare. I think in the whole audience when I saw the actress was that one point Toni Collette is driving along, and she hears that sound and stops the car mean just know that something about Charlie is hanging out with them is very unnerving. Peter does before the C Charlie he wakes up and g standing in the corner in that head goes rolling off. And turns new basketball bright, it's sad. Because we thought where at least AMI thought that bringing Charlie back would bring them all together. And what she? Really done is create a tragedy in which there's no escape now. Yeah, we see something. Peter's going to think it's his mom, but some hands jump out, I think most typical horror film jump scares. When those aunts popout right after Charlie's head falls off in grabs. Peter by the head and tries to rip it off. And he believes it says mom sleepwalking again that was very greedy the fact that the mothers in the room at father does I had to be the mother just had to be her trying to repair son's head off. And then trying to cover it up the same as when she was saying, I'm not sleepwalking again, whether it's by even or sleepwalking what however you want to write it. The fact remains there is true aggression between these two they really do want to kill each other. And so it's manifesting itself in all kinds of ways as we approach the climax Peter calls, his dad, I guess you get out of school when you bash your face into your desk enough times. And while he is being transferred to the house, and he has gone. On up into the attic and founder mom found a bunch of flies. I and I'm thinking not only with the flies. Not stay in. The attic. The smell would not stay in the added. Well, the smell doesn't earlier in the film. And I only notice this the second time Steve is walk around like what's that smell? And you just think he's an anti studio. It's paint or something. No. It's the dead body in the attic now, and when he gets home he doesn't believe her versus doesn't believe there's a body up there. And then when he finds the body up there he thinks that she's the one that dug up Ellen and brought it into the house. No head on Ellen. It should be said he does not believe any supernatural answers. It's just not going to work for this guy. But it's at this point where everything gets supernatural. She's again babbling about this book and wanna get in the fire and that she's gotten environment. Of course, nobody could walk into this room. See this woman battling this way and believe a God damn word of it. Even if somehow the words make sense the presentation of. Those words undermines any credibility as here's her moment of sacrifice. They led us to believe this would happen. She burned the book, and she caught on fire as if she takes that book has doused it in flammable liquid and she throws it in there. And you expect her to go up for some reason Gabriel Byrne is burned because he's not important. He's not of the blood line. Here's my did. You guys know he was therapist because I didn't know that until I started reading about the film and go into outside sources, I think that would help too little bit because he is. So incensed at this point, not just because it's a crazy woman. He's like you're doing this all over again. And I feel like oh there's history here. I wish I had a better sense of what he knew or that. He wasn't there pissed he'd studied this kind of thing to watchings didn't get it. Got it off of a feature at the came on the disk. Exactly, oh, I saw it. It's there, for example. He's writing of colleague, in fact, say I think my wife has gone over the edge when he gets the photos of the desecration. It's ironic because she's going to group therapy and not telling him that there's all these secrets again if characters could just tell what's going on. They would be able to stop the tragedy from happening. The problem is that anti has never confided. What she's been doing with Joan with therapy in her spare time at all? She's been left alone to make dollhouses and all that's led to as a show. That's not going to happen in New York. And he's had enough. He feels like he needs to intervene. I haven't said anything this whole movie. And now I'm going to now I'm going to say, you're crazy is book is ridiculous. And we are going to have a major intervention right now before it gets any worse. I like this character though, because he hadn't said anything, but he's been building up to it. This isn't a sudden turn this is a character arc for him. As he started off probably thinking. Now, the family can get over things. We had the mother living with us who had the Alzheimer's and everything we can now. Get on with a normal life. The thing I read, and I really didn't get and would have been so interesting is that Anne was his patients and that they went from doctor patient, married. Yeah. I did read that then that's the greatest of all like that. You don't do. You don't have that interaction with your patient. Anyway, you're right. I had no clue of that. And that changes a lot about how I feel about him. It's cut for reason. But that's what the intent was filming Toni Collette mentioned it and one of those feature at s-, but the whole movie he's been citing more and more against his wife and even had a phone call when right before she destroys all her our love that. She destroys it as the phone calls coming in. We wish you the best. If you need more time for the show, just letting she smashed I think she'll eat more time Stephen said, I'm going to protect my son. He drew a line in the sand. He hadn't done anything about it yet. But more and more he realize. His priority needed to be as a father more than a husband. And it's here when he's finally about to take action that yeah, he gets burned up. Yeah. I think the final straw is this moment. But when he saw her recreate the Beaumont that the daughters had got ripped off in diorama, you could see him angry, and he's popping pills, and again therapist, you're trained to show your emotions, you're not supposed to have a fight you leave people to process it, and he went his own way. But by staying so quiet, he incinerates he becomes a non factor in this climax. She throws the book in there. He isn't golfing flames. And we're wondering what happens when Peter is going to wake up and smell something burning. And this is when the film goes full, hor Peter's in bed Anne is clinging to the wall. And I remember seeing this in theaters just up there the coroner it's dark, and then you just you kinda just notice it. I look over my wife, and my DC that she's like, yes, I am terrified. Oh my God. I. Was watching this with Marjorie and had very similar seeing. Like hanging first of all parties. Like, she Spiderman now hang on the wall exorcist. I mean spider walking. Yeah. She's possessed at this point payment is in control. But I was freaked out by that. And the way she scurries along the wall, and is this in her head if she watch it does she think she's on a wall does Peter thinks she's on the wall. But she's not really there are we in Peter's perspective. Now, that's what I'm thinking. Is that up to this point? We've more or less seen the story told through Annie's perspective. Well, maybe any hung herself. Like a brother, maybe she's already dead. And what we have now is a schizophrenic coming in to consciousness in a really bad moment in his family's history. Yes, she is full on attack, which I expected I believed her to go nuts enough after that fire that she would attack him. I didn't. Checked her to do it with demotic powers and the ability to levity it is so freaked when she's sitting there. Peter runs up in the attic, close the door, and she's cleaning to the ceiling. Smashing grad against that pounding. They sped up the footage. It got really horror there. It's even better because the patient. He runs up in the attic, we hear the pounding. I'm thinking, but wait she had to get a hook to reach that that's up so high. How can she up this? She's floating around at this point Stewart. Yeah. And I'm like, okay. It can't get worse than this. Nope. Twenty clutch to this our head off now and this Peter has to become what has expected of him by all of the occultist. They're going to get rich that was on the other page of the book of pavement was that people want this to occur because payment rewards them with you know, whatever monetary wealth, it looks like for sure, and then whatever else that evil will afford you. But it is so out of the blue and this. This is all the all the old naked people walking out the attic. Yeah. This is where I'm thinking. Rob zombies lords of Salem, typically is the naked old people. But I think they're they're really fucking pale. These naked old people to get some sun because I thought they were ghost or zombies or spirits or something. I never thought they were cult members where their clothes how they got so many questions about that they control the whole time. But yeah, I agree. Like, I don't know they put it dead body in the adequate family finding out. I guess they could be making up there to schizophrenics oftentimes CD means they oftentimes see visions of horrific things again. There's a rating there that can explain this logically in one of the details that I like you could read it either way is real or the onset of schizophrenia. Tony clips up their song or head off. Peter's going to go out the window to get away from all these old naked people, which I would probably do too. I think that's the right when I see any floating in the air be heading. Herself everybody's dying by losing their heads. And the naked people and the addict doors locked up the way they framed it. The director is telling me he's going to jump out the window and the framing yet. That's what I would do to. I will take a broken leg or a few broken. I will even take being peer Polisianov for the rest of my life over dealing with these old naked people, but the detail I love is you see Peter laying on the ground. You still hear that side knows of Anne. And then you hear the thud of Annie's head. It's all just showing Peter though. And you see that as soon as that happened. You see that light come down and rest on Peter. Yeah. And then something black leave his body as well. There has been a transference. He stands up wanna point out. You might miss it in all of this horrific imagery if it wasn't awful enough. The family dog is dead. You see it laying their feet away for maxi. The corgi is a course for reasons unknown. I completely missed that onto watching and I'm glad to nobody should kill a core. Either to cute that's how you know payment is evil. That's how you know. This is not sentimental and the tree house. You know, we have been thinking for wile that. It was a scary place because well back when I believe Charlie was going to be the evil force. She was spending all her time up there, even though it was cold. And I was thinking of Reagan playing with the ouija board in the basement, and that must be how the evil I got her. And then later in the movie, we see red lights coming out of the window. When that red light just comes on all the sudden as Peter's laying in bed like, oh, here's something evil happening. No, it's a space heater. Yeah. I love that scene where that happens. I didn't know what was going on. But the fact that it was a space heater that was so red and eliminated the whole room the imagery here is really working for me. And it's because it's all based in that drama. It feels. So real to me that I can go with the unreality of him going back up there, and I don't know how they fit so many naked old people in treehouse. Yeah. It takes us back to the whole idea of the bottles. Again, we're kind of back in a miniature. It's like the tree houses a miniature of the one we were in before. And it's like one of Anne's dioramas come to life. She's always told auto biographical stories from her life using these dolls. And this is the final one we see her body with no head we see Ellen without a head. We see Charlie with no body on a mannequin bike one of her toys. She would make there's that in the mismatched head and body. And what's interesting, you get to this point in this movie's just gone so crazy during the last thirty minutes, the score totally changes. Just just very fantastical light music. All these sudden again it just shifts rite of spring. I kept thinking it felt almost hopeful. And again, I guess to say this would be. Yeah. And that they have Charlie's head on the body there. It's just very hard to watch this scene because of where we're at I usually pretty desensitized everything, but seeing that was pretty hearten again this actor playing Peter his facial expression the way he's like dazed confused disbelieving. And then all of a sudden, it's like payment takes over you see the confidence that you see them raise his head a little bit. Like, he is the leader of these people in. What's really interesting is Joan she's going to tell Peter what's going on. But she doesn't call him. Peter. She says Charlie euro, right now doubt, you're payment. And so I guess even though payment didn't want that girl body. They always had that affection for Charlie because she carried that spirit along got it from Ellen. And now it's able to transfer into that male body that payment wants, but does that mean Charlie spirit is free? And that payment is now in Peter. According to again, according to Astor. There was never any Charlie. She was payment since she was a baby and grandma got a hold of her. So there is no little girl only. There is. No, Dana, only Zule, correct. According to the director, you could interpret another way if you want the thing I've noticed about the director because I did do a little bit of reading. He's very interested in talking up the demonic side of this and not so interested in talking about the psychological side of this. No, Eddie, also mentions that a lot of these ideas and stories came from a personal place. And again, this is someone we don't know if he had a long history and someone had the interview and dug into his past we will be able to point probably to moment that are auto-biographical. I assume with a character who we see anti always telling stories from our life in miniature. That's kind of what a filmmaker does as well. I suspect there are several moments here that come from his actual life. And maybe one day. We'll know what those are. I'll say I kind of do appreciate. That this isn't an analogy for how schizophrenia or mental illness is something evil something demonic because that's something that's been played up in Hollywood forever. I've dealt with clinical, depression, my entire life. I was sister who deals with severe anxiety. And I think there's such a stigma, and there's always this fight against that that it's not the psychos that are out there killing people that people have mental illness are often are more harm than the ones doing the harm. So I'm kinda glad that's a red herring. And they go away from that. If you wanted more literal interpretation that it's not mental illnesses. A demon. That's going to destroy your life. I think when credits roll you can walk out of this room, thinking, whatever you wanted to be could be either or. Oh, yeah. You can have that interpretation. But the fact that the last shot shows them in the Dollhouse the film black all around and we see like a cut away wall for that. Tree house. Just like the doll houses any had built they were puppets all along. And it is pretentious put it. Through very well. So Jacob Stuart is hereditary and your genes Jacob this is a film. I liked it. The first time I saw, but it is like Stewart said there is a psycho moment in this moody that just totally threw me. I'm like, I don't know what to expect now. And that's fun. Like that doesn't happen in movies, very often. So I hope you watched it before you talk about it because that is just a rear experienced these days spoilers everywhere hard to avoid them. But yeah, I think this is a well crafted film, it's obvious that Astor put a lot of thought in detail media little too much. I mean, there are a lot of layers in this, and it could get kind of muddle trying to figure out okay is this a Colt, and this is about that kind of thing. Or is it about schizophrenia? I do just kind of a broad. This is about how you aren't always in control you in here. Dna you inherit parenting styles all that kind of thing into turn that into horror again, I like that idea. I've always said. Core. But the last few years I'd just seen this explosion as elevated horror that I've really gravitated to. And it makes me excited. Like the fact that I was excited for a horror film this year. When I saw hereditary says something, so yeah, I think this is a great crafted film. Great acting again, give Toni Collette the Oscar now, we don't eat a wait. Sorry, lady Gaga. I don't care that star is board to Colette. But. Yeah. Strong recommend for hereditary Stewart. Yeah, I'm certain. I'm watching a very good film. Even though I'm not exactly certain even the second time with months to process, the original the ethical experience. What it is that I've seen if it's a portrait of madness or superstition all of that can say conclusively is it's a tragedy in which the characters couldn't get out of their own way. And that you feel every bit of the pain that they feel and being unable to change their fate. The movie does remind me in a strange way. Way of six cents when I saw that twenty years ago, not just because that also stars Tony colleg. I remember that movie came with a groundswell of hype masterpiece, next, Hitchcock genius. So Where'd I always struggle with? And when I saw success, I'm like, yes, there are moments brilliant here. And yet there are things they were little things at that time. But there were things that made me think the director had blind spots. And now that I've had chance you think Astor's gotta happening coming. Well. I think that you know, the more movies I've seen the easier. It is to spot. What does and doesn't work in six? I wonder if that won't be true for her editor right now, it's just an outlier. It's just an oddball film. I don't know if it's a masterpiece or a very good first film that has some weird quirks that probably could have been tightened up. But the important thing to know, the only thing to really focus on at this point is that I wanna see more from him. I wouldn't. See this movie again, and I highly recommend it to everyone. Even if you don't like elevated, or if you don't like the idea of horror aspiring for art. I think there's enough here. That's just got John repeal that everyone should see it. The last thirty minutes of this fear horror fan watch the last thirty minutes when it just goes crazy, and I have no problem with horror as art I like horror that pushes boundaries of all kinds, including storytelling it, but the witch made me really have a negative attitude. So coming into this at the thirty minute, Mark. I didn't care if there was going to be or I didn't care if there were going to be ghosts. I think the genius of this movie is it's a solid drama that has ghosts in it as so it works without the goes. Whereas I feel like the witch the drama there didn't work as well. It was always in the shadow of the which because of how it was told to us with the baby being killed in the woman bathing in its blood and things teased things from the start. That were not answered in an adequate speed or in the end adequately at all for my tastes here. This family pulls me in and I'm so with it, and yeah, I can't describe the sheer emotional reaction I had during the car accident scene. But the more watched the film the more. I'm wondering what is real? And you don't want movie. This kind of reminded me of is Donnie Darko when I first saw that film. And there wasn't the director's cut that has like text popping up to explain what's going on Donnie Darko at the time. I saw that the African Donnie Darko and for both these films as soon as I watched it I became obsessed with analyzing it and wanting to know, wait what what was this. Meaning what is that as so I watched this movie again? And then I watched the feature at s-, and I've read a little bit on them. I wanna stop I want to bring my opinions in here. I know. Enough of what he said to know what he talks about. But I don't want everything explained. But that's how I was with Donnie Darko two. And then once you have explained though is going to forever change, your viewing of it. I can't watch Donnie Darko with my own interpretations anymore because the director there spelled it out so much. I think after a little bit more reading Aster will put me in that same spot with this film. I don't think it has a high rewatch ability after a couple I wanted to see all the clues. But because it is a drama. It's not going to be like nightmare on elm street where you can put it in every three months or something. It's not a feel good film. Yeah. I wouldn't recommend putting nightmare street on again. Never. Well, all right part three now. Okay. But it's a very strong recommend from me. This is brought me back to say, okay. Some elevated horror is good not all of it is going to be to my taste, but this movie, and maybe it's because I do like a good family. Drama, and I liked good performances and like good cinematography. But this thing has atmosphere using out of it. It's singularly the best thing I've watched this Halloween season. And the word singular. I just wanna focus on that. It's unlike anything else, even though we can make references and Peter Greenaway. And I know love Carey and wanted to bring that there are things you can cite, but the movie operates by its own dimension. Again, that's what makes it feel odd. I don't know if it's good or bad that it goes in so many crazy directions. But it's new and that's exciting enough to recommend on that alone. And maybe next year. We'll have a chance to give a better idea if this was a fluke or not eight twenty four just two days ago as of this recording and nounce the date for Astor's next film. August nine twenty nineteen I think we're doing like forty week films. I don't know if we could get this one in there. Maybe someone will donate. So he can but yeah, he's doing a Scandinavian full core film. You know what I'm paper? I'd be like fuck. No. But because it's him I'm interested. It's that me the meeting with the guy like, no, no. All right. All right. And I already confessed on the record. If you go listen to our which show become a patron, go here, what we all had to say about that Scandinavian horror is something that I think is under represented these days and really cool. So I look forward to that. That will be really neat to see someone at American at that follow in those footsteps, but again, thanks to Mark for introducing me to this film. And for giving us a good thing to discuss everyone should thank Mark because extra show for everyone. Yeah. Hopefully, you enjoyed listening to it. And it was your Halloween treats that is good for you. It makes you think, and it doesn't have excess amounts of sugar, and no peanuts that are gonna make you stick your head out your window and then get decapitated. And if you did enjoy the show, please think about heading to itunes leaving us a five star review and letting other people know what you enjoy. Roy about the show in a few words, and yet as Stuart mentioned if you want to hear us discuss more elevated hor including get out and the witch those are available along with twenty total shows for patrons the patronage. It started off I think with some pretty solid shows. But now, I can't think of a better bargain than twenty exclusive shows for ten dollars a month. That's fifty cents a show. And then a new one being added every month in a couple of weeks. We're adding Apocalypse Now, which is a huge daunting film to discuss. But going to be a really good conversation. I as a Jacob Stewart's. Thank you for joining me until next time HALE Peyman hail. Hey. Dead. I don't like this. What's happening? What's going on? At least. Fucking. Thank you for listening to this episode of now playing podcast. We hope you've enjoyed this bonus movie review. He wanted to credit. An extra things to Mark ward for his support of our show and choice of movie for us to review. But let's will remember Sophocles wrote the oracle. So that it was unconditional meaning Eric Leigh's never had any choice. Right. So does that make it more tragic or less tragic than if he has a choice? For more movie review podcasts. Visit the now playing podcast dot com archives there you'll find hundreds of film reviews, including the incredible 's Batman Spiderman hell, boy, the godfather back to the future diehard the fast furious and more and come back each week for another new movie review. I wanna go see movie. Okay. Now playing relies on listener support to keep operating for our podcast tenth anniversary. We have released over one hundred fifty donation podcasts through our pod bean page available. There are serious like the matrix, the Quinton tarintino films planet of the apes Jurassic Park aliens and pirates of the Caribbean. Links to our pod being page or available at now playing podcast dot com. Our country has had many ups and downs economically. Speaking we've talked about this struggles for a decade, we suffered through many many hardships Wall Street had been going so well when it's finally crashed because of the great boom it caused a huge decline in the economy. You can also join our pod dean crowdfunding campaign to help our show grow backers of ten dollars or more overseas exclusive bonus podcast reviews, including Scarface, monster trucks. Goodfellas Beetlejuice galaxy. West and more. Plus, a new exclusive review added every month. Really? Need you to be opened his please? Please Chromos Cleese. I need you to please. You can also donate to us directly via pay pal. Details can be found by clicking Benner at the top of our website now playing podcast dot com. Pointing to this is a family these days, all our energies, okay together. Want one hundred twenty five more now playing reviews? Also at now playing podcast dot com forward slash book. You can order now playing film review collection. Underrated movies we recommend this book has one hundred twenty-five reviews about films, you probably haven't seen, but you should read this out loud every syllable fairly carefully. It's to make things start. You can also follow now playing on Google plus Facebook and Twitter. They're the host post new episode announcements movie reviews and contests where you can win movies and soundtracks. Facebook friends who do? You can also help playing by leaving us a five star review on itunes a link to now playing tunes listing can be found now playing podcast dot com. It doesn't make it easier. Obviously. Sometimes it makes it less lonely now playing is produced by Arne Carvalo. And then I realized. I am to blame. To blame. It. I am. And what do you think you feel blamed for? Now playing is edited by Arne going. Shows. Now playing credit narration by Brock. I heard his voice. I felt his presence in the room the opinions expressed anelle playing or those of the individual hosts, and may not reflect the opinion of in Gaza media Inc. That was your opinion, and you were. Then guns immediate Inc is not affiliated with and this podcast is not been prepared approved or licensed by any entity that created the film, analyzed here in all movie clips and music included in this podcast or the intellectual property of their respective copyright holders. They are included here for the purpose of review, and no infringement is intended, please. I know how it sounds. But there's no to talk about it. I just show you, okay, please. You'll see complete lucid. Now, playing fogcast is an exclusive trademark of and may not be used without the express permission of the guns of media Inc. Only is in guns of media production, copyright, twenty eighteen and no part of this show, maybe reproduced repurpose or redistributed without the written permission of in guns of media Inc. All rights reserved. And happy Halloween show. Happy happy. Kicked it. Get it together. Already got a blueprint in. The cult worshiped demon called Pyan payment. Yeah. Simon simple Simon the five. Give a shout out to Alex wolf. I mean again, I don't. Peter, Peter and the wolf. Doc. He's. I used to love that as the Oba was my. I'm sorry. You were saying something about this movie. If you just wanna keep making Jones, go right ahead. Right.

Peter Greenaway Toni Collette Charlie Anne Anne Ellen Gabriel Byrne director Oscar Steve Ricky Stuart Mark ward Annie Arnie Stewart Sundance Joan Ari astor AFI
Scents and sensibilities

Studio 360 with Kurt Andersen

53:06 min | 2 years ago

Scents and sensibilities

"This episode is sponsored by Intel not that you would open Photoshop and illustrator and every application on your computer at the same time just for fun. But you could with the eighth gen Intel core processor with Intel octane memory, you can push your computer to new limits. New computers with Intel opting memory are now faster and more responsive, which means you can open load and launch like never before. Learn more at Intel dot com slash you could. Three sixty I'm currently, and I'm sitting on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. I level of Thomas Jefferson's vegetable. Dr I'd like to have the roasted chicken based very well done is all about timing. I tried to get a little bit away from the actual subject. Must get sick place. Sixty with good Anderson. In the summer of nineteen Ninety-two, my friends, and I thought road movie on the streets of Singapore that was to become a kind of urban legend. That's filmmaker sandy Thanh narrating at the beginning of her terrific new documentary that movie was called shirkers. A word which means running away. Voiding responsibility. Dispense. In played the heroine. A sixteen year old killer named s. Her new documentary is kind of a making of film. But it's about that film that never got finished. And that's because right after her movie rap twenty six years ago, her director and mentor. A mysterious guy named George Cardona just disappeared along with every frame of film. Her doc is called shirkers same name as the original feature and earlier this year at one best directing award at the Sundance film festival, and it is now just rolling out on Netflix. When sandy Thanh came into studio three sixty I asked her how she became such a movie obsessive as a kid in Singapore in the nineteen eighties. I guess I would say Keanu Reeves was my gateway drug, so I handled the Saint film society into showing river's edge or something when I was fourteen and, but you know, I wind up staying in watching Fellini and Fellini eight and a half was was the thing. Kind of. Let me down another rabbit hole on and just barring enough then to allow me time to daydream, which is I think is really important for films for you as a teenager. So. So by the time you were born there, you could buy tapes right films. You could not it was very very difficult to look for movie. So you had to go across the causeway to Malaysia to look for pirated movies. And then I have a cousin in Florida. And so I had her, you know, rent the movies, I wanna see like a while tar and blue velvet things like that. And then she would put them all on this one VHS. But you know in those days you could take them at triple speeds. So there's like three movies on one tape. And then when you watch them when they arrive at your house because they tape that triple speed, they're kind of fuzzy and you watching them, and they're they have this kind of mythic religious quality to to them when you watch them as a teenager like after it's been shipped to your house, and you put it onto your VCR and watched it like a late night. And it's got this kind of. I don't know it has its on me. I guess movies did. But you seemed like I was gonna say one of the interesting things is describing these young teenage girls in Singapore. Being what seemed like the coolest punky is geeks in town, right? Yeah. The the the coolest punk is. Geeks in retrospect, you know, nobody was thinking we were. So there we would completely isolated. I was completely alone in my tastes in my pursuits. We small core friends who are all into the same thing. But then so you weren't glamorous. No, we were not glamorous. I mean, we seem like that now because nobody else was doing that. But back, then we were like, you know, there was nobody around like us, and we felt intensely lonely. And then I did a Zine called the exploding cat. Just so I could invent my own Internet Explorer cat when I was sixteen. It was meant to be a kind of a dot is Zine. But when you try to do Dada in nineteen Eighty-eight it winds up looking like a punk Zine. It wasn't. I wasn't really upon it. So there were no other sixteen donnas, but you and your friends in Singapore, Hannity. Yeah. Maybe just me and you wrote for an underground rock paper. I mean, it was a scene a bit. Yes. Most lean. Yeah. So not only do you watch a lotta movies. You you decide to take a filmmaking class? I assume this wasn't in highschool yet to go somewhere else to do this on this right after high on before college. And then that gap were anything can happen. It's so happened that in Saint this very strange man named George Cardona was giving Singapore's first ever sixteen millimeter film making class. Really? Yeah. So it's eighteen ninety two you're eighteen and having taken his millimeter film, making course, and hung out with him, and your friends decide you're gonna make a feature film. Yeah. I wrote this thing shirkers, I showed it to George the first draft, by the way in Jewish. Let's go out and do this. I mean, how many grownups in Saint bar? Are you gonna ever meet who who could have says that kind of thing who believes doesn't judge you? And and, you know, yell at you, which is what most grownups. Or used to doing and you go. Here's this forty something white guy who says he's American, but who knows and he loves the same arthouse indie films. You love. Did you look at him as wild. This dudes praising me insane. Let's go make a movie together. Fantastic. But did you think? Wow. What a what a sketchy curious character with a curious character, you know, like the optics as people would say wasn't great. He was my best friend. We would sit in his car for hours at night and just talking about movies. I'm just talking, and you know, like, nobody can understand that. But I I just thought the Bruce than apply. I mean, you you finally have found this this grownup who really was like a teenage girl I thought and one of us, and you know, and he was non-threatening. The best storyteller. I ever met to this day. I, you know, if if George Washington again and said, let's go make movie I would be like, okay. Let's do this again, you know, and that kind of thing where I don't think of him as villain. I think of him as a very strange friend, and his this friendship was both a gift and the curse. So making this movie talk about the logistics. I mean, you spent money in you had real cameras and Filmon and cast people. Yeah. It was it was micro budget because Sophian jasmine my friends managed to talk Kodak into getting us free film, sixteen millimeter film, those like oh just want to play which was trying to learn filmmaking. Do you have any spares to? And then we tried every tactic, you know, like, and then it's just like through stuff just to to, you know, send us away, and there was like frequent as well as jasmine measure get that I think, and then we still we hijacked buses we got those for free. And then we had this network of friends who are willing to work for free. And so like, a clever boy was thirteen years old on his history, teachers son, and you know, we have free labor and form of children. It was like, you know, Bugsy Malone like us just running around the island. Pulling off this crazy thing a hundred different actors in over one hundred locations. I mean, I listed down like all these places obsessed with like old bakeries railway tracks which I sat on. On almost got run over by train during one of the shots, and all these places that I knew will not stay for long because Saint was changing so quickly. I was going to school abroad. And every time I came home for the summer like everything was different. You're in college at the university of Canterbury. Yeah. And I just I just awful place. But I I just I just had to find a form in which I could, you know, capture everything for not just for us. But for everyone around us, we saw Singapore and very boring lighten, I enjoy tonight, just, you know, drove around always looking for interesting places, and and faces we well, it's interesting about Singapore. Because it seems the public intent of its presentation is so determinedly modern rigorous in straight ahead and straight up. Although despite all that it's a weird place, and you were trying to show. It's weird. Yeah. This is the counter narrative, and so you finished shooting great. We did it and wait to hear from George. What's going on what's going on? And and poof, you know, disappears. Disappears. I mean, really disappears forever. Yeah. I mean, it was it was a complicated thing of trying to track him down and things, you know, in those days the internet barely existed, we were three kids in three different cities in the world. I was in England jasmine was in New York. So he was all Galet college. Oh, going to call it. And he had splintered as we were no longer you could go after him. And you know, the thing is so George when he took the reels, and this might be a spoiler. But he kept them in his room and has houses of it was like a captive like a kidnapped person. It was like a part of me, I guess metaphorically speaking. So you left a black hole now lives, and I think one of the ways he creates George creates Bhai of leaving behind absences, you know, and he just wanted to be remembered by that black hole because it wasn't creative guy. He didn't create enough holes in and and people remember him through those holes so fast forward twenty years after this episode that had haunted you and and ruined. Friendships out of the blue the the the pieces of film suddenly show up on your doorstep. What were your emotions I was like I approached it with so much trepidation because I knew that as soon as they opened up these boxes they were like Pandora's boxes. They would just going to shut me down some kind of dark rabbit hole from which I might never emerge, and it might you know, you know, like, I would be obsessed with this thing. So I I knew I had to be ready before I could open up these boxes and look at them. And and so I didn't actually open those boxes for three years. And they sat my live wire. You're a nut. You didn't open them for three years. You don't say that in the documentary? I know because I mean, it's the that's such a digression, but I buried the lead. Wow. I just I just couldn't I was growing up. I I had a new life. And I knew that this thing which is oh suck me into the black hole. One. Here. We are here. We are talking about it. But did you immediately think you oughta turn the the whole story of the film into a documentary? No because I had to, you know, sixteen millimeter film was incredibly hard to see I do not have seen back. I didn't have the I have to take it to a Latin and Burbank, California to to get digitize. So I could look at it. And you have to get digitize if you're gonna do anything with it anyway, and I sat next to this colors than we worked on the criterion. Blu rays of Douglas Sirk movies. So you knew about color, and I wanted somebody who knew about color and his jaw dropped. And I thought okay, here's a stranger who knew nothing about the story knew nothing about Singapore. And just thought this footage itself. Was amazed does a head an artifact in a time cap. Yeah. And they didn't believe the almost believe me that this. This was like more than twenty years old because George wrapped every single real up in black plastic. The reels were pristine because he's a crazy feller. And you know, when we watched the footage tonight. I thought oh, you know, I had set aside. I'll vanity of see myself giving this horrible performance because here was like amazing production design that we all put together all these amazing places in faces, and and, you know, twenty five years later, so who cares that you're gone yet eighteen and and the grownups in the film that we cash that will giving amazing performances will, you know, would never be acknowledged as actors some of them thought they might have been actors. They had all the possible futures taken away from them. It wasn't just mine. It was everybody else's. And I thought you know, we had to do something about it. Because it wasn't just about me. Well, I I'm very glad you made it because it's excellent. Such a a one of a kind story of what in retrospect coulda shoulda. Maybe would have been the first arthouse indie film to come out of Singapore in the nineties right in might have been and we put this together. It would it would have been something. It would not have been a masterpiece would have been the risk taking little something. But again in the imagining, what could have been one could imagine, you know, some critic the village voicing this weird Singaporean movie and go look at this young genius. Well, yeah, I mean, maybe not young. Geez. But but they might have thought what an interesting odd thing. And and it would have changed. I mean, a lot of people other than me think that it might have changed. The course of Saint por cinema. Oh film history because people would have thought. Yeah. Let's go out and make something fun and take risks and you can do this. I mean, this is a bunch of kids with no, you know, no resources, and they just went out. And just did this thing you could have modeled that guerilla approach. Yeah. Yeah. And people might have had more fun and more of a sense of humor, which I think they saw. Early lack of the world, and is one of my friends. Philadelphia was film critic from that part of the world, you know, he said that could have been the moment we should have seized in Singapore. But in fact, the energy went off to the Philippines, and Indonesia, and they went up to make more interesting indie films, whereas Saint just did not as one sees all these scenes of this unmade unfinished potentially groundbreaking film from twenty five years ago. I thought it was Anderson is well, you know, not many years after you made your original film shirkers, his breakthrough film Rushmore came out, which is a kind of cinematic cousin young people bright colors, such you know, stylized shots that must've felt a little bitter. Sweet. I grew watching Rushmore, I just you know, the that emphasis on primary colors youthful heroes. The young person who has these these strange friendships with older people, you know, precautionary, I guess. What's the secret bag? Secret. Pretty figure it out. No, no, one could just got to find something you love to do. And then do the rest of your life. Me. It's going to rush. That's Jason Schwartzman and Bill Murray in Wes Anderson's Rushmore from nineteen ninety eight. When there's watching the film. I was like oh my God. That's what we were going for that no-one to tell. Nobody would believe me. I would just sound so grandiose and that was really frustrating for me. And again when I saw ghost world that I felt the same thing was the same kind of palette of colors slightly offbeat humor. And and poker faced humor. You were like the luckiest guy in the world. Kill the have stuff like this place. I hadn't killed me. Oh, come on. What are you talking about where you think it's healthy to obsessively collect things can't connect with other people? So you fill your life with stuff just like all the rest of these pathetic collector losers. That's ghost world Thawra Birch and Steve shaming two thousand and one your film from a decade earlier is less realistic. But about this schoolgirl serial killer kind of a kindred. Indie comedy sensibility. Oh, yeah. Definitely. I mean, if it didn't have a sense of humor, it wouldn't be fun. And there's a kind of deadpan surrealism that I associate more with modern American Indian est. Yeah. Like Jarmusch, I think Josh is a big influence on. Well, like visually say an I wanna I to pause if we can't on Jarman. Who who who there is a kind of never belly laugh, but comic undertone his whole thing. What particular movies of his did you love, I think it was generally maybe there was a bit of the look of mystery train? And then there was you know, you know, some colors that this movie's brimming with like, bright colors and primary colors, and we were going for something vivid that was completely in opposition to steer all, you know, just gray Singapore, Saint of responsibility in school and business and offices. So there was a bit of John waters as well. A love the American indie aesthetic we were going through. We recently a friend of mine was friends with J Rabinovitz where I think at its dramas films, and he saw some of the footage and his jaw dropped because he thought there was some collective unconscious. You know, something that's going on where these kids in this. This very distant part of the world were doing something that kind of. Looked like they were trying for something that that people in America would doing at the same time, an alternate history that has been suppressed at least to me in to everybody about your friends, and you until now, but but it is like a like a weird natural experiment of global culture that there you were kidding in Singapore. Feeding off the same influences. I'd guys fumes or whatever as these directors in America at the turn of the century. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it really feels like that. Right. I mean does really feel like like that? Like, you you you are this experiment that there is such a thing as global zeitgeist. Yeah. Yeah. So you get the film back. You made this documentary? You had some kind of reunion with your friends mystery solve found out who George was Netflix show in this doc, it's good happy ending. Yeah. I think it's it's like that to me is like the stranger than fiction aspect of it. I mean, this is like one small little. Event in the smallest country in the world that happened in longtime ago on the strange little Abirin incident. And now this this story of this thing is going to be shown in the largest possible venue. I guess one hundred ninety five countries in twenty five languages like. I mean, how crazy is that like us kit in Bhutan who might be hurting his his goats wash this on his cell phone. I want people to see this thing and see that they can do this. I mean, no matter where they're from or small places, and you know, just to see this thing. I just find that. So surreal what a delight speaking with you. Oh, thank you so much. It was so fun. Oh, good. I'm glad you can watch Sandi Thom's documentaries shirkers on Netflix. Coming up. The novelist and perfumer funny. None Dini Islam walks me through the making of a scent based on Toni Morrison's novel beloved, I definitely walked away with wanting to create the sense of rain, mud, mother's milk blood. I try to resist upon but sorry sent and sensibilities. That's next on studio. Three sixty. Studio three sixty is brought to you by the platinum card from American Express. With the platinum card, you'll earn membership reward points on virtually all your purchases and turn those points into anything from nights out to flights away feel at home when you're far from home in over one thousand airport lounges worldwide. Let platinum help you find that hidden gem for a meal any food. He would treasure or sleep in explore or just relax for a few hours. More with guaranteed for PM late checkout and over one thousand fine hotels and resorts worldwide. That's the powerful backing of the platinum card from American Express don't live life without it. Terms apply to all benefits. Visit American Express dot com slash explore platinum. For more information, not that you would launch all the applications on your computer at the same time just for fun, but you could laptops running the eight Jin Intel core processor with Intel octane memory allow you to push your. Pewter to new limits with Intel obtain memory, everyday tasks or up to two point one times more responsive with all that power. The possibilities seem endless what are some of those possibilities. You ask how about launching big media, apps and content faster allowing you to create more in less time with the eighth gen Intel core processor, many of your everyday tasks or speeding up to like Email presentations, even your browser can launch faster with Intel octane memory, so not that you would store thirty two gigabytes of photos on your computer, then open them all at once. But you could don't believe it go to Intel dot com, you could now to learn more for more complete information about performance in benchmark results. Visit Intel dot com slash benchmarks. Did you threes sixty? Base notes are viscous would see long-lasting notes that tend to wear on the skin and stay on the skin. This is funny nine Dini Islam a perfumer and writer who like all writers and all artisanal perfumers lives in Brooklyn, New York. The heart note is basically the heart of the perfume, the the main story, and then for the the top you have the most volatile easily evaporated notes that invite you call you into the stories like the first flirtation into the story has published one well received novel, bright lines and is working on her second. But as a perfume Hershey, also concocts ephemeral stories of a kind for her fragrance and beauty business called high Wildflower, and we had heard that she recently experimentally merged those two parts of her life. Creating since scented candles, in fact, inspired by contemporary novels. We wanted to see and smell how that works how she transmits literature into a perfume. So we asked sunny if she'd create a literature inspired sent just for us and walk us through that process. You're probably familiar with the book, she picked Toni Morrison's nineteen eighty-seven Pulitzer prize winning novel beloved, one twenty four was bite full full of a baby's VIN. Women in the house, you knew it. And so did the children for years each put up with the spite in his own way. But by eighteen seventy three. Seth and her daughter Denver. It's only the. Adams beloved is a magical realist go stories that in Ohio after the civil war. It's about this former slave name. Seth her daughter Denver her long dead other daughter beloved in her complicated, past I went with funny to her apartment in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. So I could watch and smell as she created this literary perfume. Jerry. We're sitting at a wooden table where thirty has dozens of glass bottles. They're tiny announce yourself piece some clear some dark Brown all with Black Caps, very old time apothecary. These are the concentrated since smells derived from flowers and trees and nature and some of them synthetic ones. Chemical recreations of pretty much any smell imaginable. I need to just get in my zone for once second. She's also got a stack of special paper strips that she uses to sample and sniff each sent each note as she says putting a drop of the liquid on one end of the paper. And then scribbling the name of that sent on the other end as she builds toward the perfume, she'll fan the strips out in her hand, adding new ones removing others and occasionally wave them under her nose to decide how they worked together. So with the this below. Loved sent how how do you begin? Do you? Did you read the book again? Oh, yeah. I wanted to read the book, I always have my little journals to write notes in. And I was just like I'm just going to write down what touches me. And that's it. And I literally just page after page of this old factory knows because I want to not just make this out of my own ideas. I mean, I think the ego needs to kind of disappear when you're making any work of art to let love in life ends. I was like I just wanna know what she had to say. As for the rest. She worked hard to remember his close to nothing as safe. Unfortunately, have brain Steve is she might be hurrying across a field running back to to get to the pump quickly. And Vince the camomile sat some. From her late. So the first note that popped out of page six was she might be hurrying across a field and absorb from the camomile on her legs on so I have camomile, and this is blue camomile and you'll see how blue it is. Because of the as you lean almost six block. So that sense of camomile is just so invigorating and intoxicating, but the sap you can smell the sappy Innis of it the sweetness of it's a honeyed before you wanna eat it like t so I wanted I. So that's one note that came up for me. It was there. The thing to send. Or the cherry gum and bark from which it was made nothing. As you're reading it Seth as really talented at making Inc. So I really wanted to kind of get into the more would see notes Inc would be made with like cherry. Gum oak. Bark like things that are really thick and viscous. So I have this blood red, cedar. You'll see how inky that is. And it's just like. Smells. Dangerous, it's fine. But it's like something that, you know, see that color would have skull-and-crossbone on the bottle. Yeah. Given the again, the nature the overall nature of the novel apart from individuals scenes of running into camomile do dooby did you begin? And do you begin by saying, oh ghostly things that go on in this novel? And we're you know, does that conform. The sense you choose to make it definitely walked away with wanting to create. The sense of rain, mud, mother's milk blood. So those are the notes so whatever makes it smell like those four things is the perfume. So that's where we're going. Already having a rainy, muddy earthy. I'll totally by that. Right. Yup. So now, let's go in a different direction. Suddenly, they was sweet home rolling rolling rolling out before is that. Although there was not a leaf on that volume. That did not make her want to screen it rolled itself out before shameless beauty. It never looked as terrible as it was. And it made a wonder if hell was a pretty place to. So I have some grass options so grass to me really Vokes sweet home where she had been enslaved by the garners. So I have sweet grass and this to me has that kind of nostalgia. We don't being the plantation. Yes has an established quality. Oh, yeah. That's a very I mean, this is the most completely pleasant scent. He you've wafted near me, and it's a hard note. So it's a little bit later. You have more space. Clause those harder base our top. Yeah. Oh. And then there's this one moment where her lover Seth his lover Paul Di he had kind of escaped into Delaware found this woman, the first black woman whose house he can get into and became lovers with her. Later. He saw pale cutting sheets into pillows in her bedroom. He had to wipe his eyes quickly quickly. So she would not see the thankful tears of a man's. I. Soiled grass mud shocking leaves? Hey, cobs sees you all that he'd slept on my cotton sheets at never cost his mind. Paul d describes the comfort of laying. And hey as only comfort he'd known before. He understood what it felt like to sleep in some cotton sheets. Just kind of interested in finding something. That would hint at that. Hey note because I think hey is a little bit more evocative as a sense. Oh, that's. Let's natural. It's hey, it's really, hey like. Then she did the magic lifted Cephas feet and legs and massage them until she cried, salt tears. That really for me when Amy Denver the white woman who I guess is an indentured servant. She basically rubbed seth's feet and makes her cry. And I was like, oh, the bomb of someone rubbing your feet when you're beaten and being chased by evil, white people, and you need sucker. And this woman is giving to this horrible woman who's kind of racist you giving it to you. It's really deep, you know. So I was like we need to have that moment. So tears I wanted to produce tears. So I have to accords accord means like accord, basically a combination. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Two to five this is salt clean. I don't really know. What makes it clean? I love it. And this is dry salt. They're not natural. They're aroma chemicals. Mrs sort of sweeter. What is it that? Once we did salt, clean salt, and this is dry salt. So. This is a little bit more dry on the nose. I had milk. She said I was pregnant with Denver, but I had milk for my baby girl. I hadn't stopped nursing are when I sit on a head with Howard and bugler. Anybody could smell me long before he saw me. It's very hard to. I mean, you can create Milkin recreate mother's milk. But I wanted to kind of bring a different spin to it. So that is jasmine lactone. So anytime there's the word lack dawn, obviously in an aroma chemical, there's a milky note, but it's with jasmine. So it's this milky, buttery wax. Jasmine, buttery waxy, I get that. This is a natural Islip called gamma dough deca lack dawn. Kind of fruity. Yeah. And a little buttery. And then the carnival is experienced that the three characters Seth Paul dean Denver have to kind of broker a peace accord between Paul dean Denver. So this scene. There's so many notes in in that section, you know, horse how liquor peppermint lemonades sweet bread. Honey, beeswax molasses taffy. I mean, that's all in a carnival. And when you go to a carnival, it does feel like that, you're candied apples funnel cake. So I think it it really is one of the moments of levity in the book. The happy. One was Paul d he said Howdy to everybody within twenty feet made fun of the weather, and what it was doing to him yelled back at the close. And was the first to smell doomed roses and yet this under note tone of rotten roses. The closer the roses got to death the louder the scent and everybody who attended the carnival associated with the stench of the rotten roses. It made them a little dizzy and very thirsty, but did nothing to extinguish the eagerness of colored people filing down the road. So good. It's like death is right there. So to me the artificial rose, which is not as good as the real rose. I think has that kind of like overly ripe rose sent where it's so good. It's disgusting. So that's a rose. That's really nice. Really nice. I just wear that myself. So this is the the one that really made me think okay carnival rotten roses. Okay. So this is well, why don't you smell anytime me? I just like to know what people think when they. It's more. It's I suppose cinema, knee and metallic. And I don't know. What is it? It's Honey accord, so this to me really draws into beloved when she comes back as the spoiler alert. Please read it today. It's her obsession with sweet stuff honeyed Ling's. So for me, Honey milk, you know, mother's milk. Honey, rose, that's the heart of the story. That's the beauty of this story. It's a mother daughter story. I wanted to incorporate African notes to pale mosh to the place where people were stolen from the notes that I have from Africa African bluegrass I want you to compare that to the sweet grassy American sweetgrass. Oh, God love all these graphs in. Hey, well, so that's like my way of creating a little accord with the sweetgrass to kind of bring American sweetgrass and the African bluegrass together. So then we take the salts and then you smell these three together. And you're going to like that too. Yes. Y'all feeling then you're getting excited and you're like, okay. This is a perfume. I'm feeling. Oh. So then we want to deepen this because it's a little to lighten bright. So then we want to get this blood, cedar. So you're getting this light bright grass salt, and it ends in this deep viscous like cedar. No. So then I'm going to add the mother's milk component me is building toward the first draft of her beloved perfume. She adds another sent to the group and smells, and then another and smells again until she's got about ten sticks. I think we got it. Okay. Hold it like that. And just smell it. She hands me the the bouquet of strips. I flicked them around under my nose. And yes, all those very distinct components do kind of miraculously coalesce into a cohesive complex sent that's our perfume for beloved. That's great. To me the most salient factor that I'm going after is. The energy of the book, which is go sleekness ascension, and to me rain, and mud and blood like going to the materials evokes that we as writers were always grappling with is this dead in pointless. You know? So I think of course, miss Morrison's work will never be dead in pointless. But does it live on in every capacity? So to me, this is like a heightened form of fan fiction, almost you know, it's just an Omayad too. Great Ness in a in a novel. But also like going sentence by sentence to extricate the most beautiful factory moments is like such a pleasure for me. You can find sunny, then Dini Islam's fragrances, candles and other products at high Wildflower dot com and her novel bright lines at booksellers excerpt from the audio book of beloved were read by Toni Morrison. Coming up. Long time ago. I can still remember how that music used to make me smile the song where everybody knows the words, but not many are sure what they need a thousand people can read the bible in. You'll get a thousand different opinions on what it means American pie thousand people can hear the song. You'll get a thousand different interpretations of what each line means Chevy's, levies and other components of Don mclean's American pie. That's next on studio. Three sixty s I couldn't take one most. Today's sponsor is babble the number one selling language learning up in the world. I took Spanish in high school, and I still speak. It just enough to get by when I'm on vacation in Spanish, speaking, countries and impress my wife, but I am not fluid which is why I'm excited to use babble for free. You can also learn French or talian or German or Russian or Swedish using Babbel's ten to fifteen minute lessons that can leave. You speaking in your new language within weeks. You can try babble for free. Go to babble dot com or download the app and try it for free. That's Babbel, B A B B E L dot com or download the app to try it for free babble dot com. Studio three sixty. It was nineteen seventy one when the basically unknown singer songwriter. Don McLean released his song American pie today. Forty seven years later. Everybody's still seems to know the words, but nobody seems to know what they're supposed to mean. Who is the gesture who saying for the king and Queen in a coat? He borrowed from James Dean, and what was it that touched him deep inside the day the music died to tell the story of that song and decode some of its mysteries. Our story begins by going straight to the source. I did not want to have a job where I had a boss that was my main goal in life. I just wanted to be free of anyone telling me what to do. My name is Don McLean. I'm singer in somewhere. I've never had any job. But as a paper in nineteen fifty nine when I opened those papers and saw that my man buddies Holly have been killed. I was very sensitive, and I carry this burden with me for a long long time. Long time ago. I can still remember how that music used to make me smile. Three young who saw the height them show business on the contract enrolled praise or kills a day in the crash of a light plane in Iowa snow flurry, the sinuous, Richie Vallon seventeen buddy. Holly twenty to j p Richardson known professionally as the big Bopper. Ury me. Shiver? Every pay deliver. We are craft chartered from league wire flying service crashed near Mason city. Ironically, the setting for the prominent musical the music man are small chartered plane crashed in the locally. Read about his widowed bride. Something touched me d inside the day the music. Travis hawley. You looked a lot like buddy was tall Texan. And he said, Don when I heard you a song I'd pull the car over and jumped for joy. And so everybody got the connection even though I didn't say anything between buddies death and American pie the idea of a thirteen year old kid seeing his hero die in a plane crash. That's something that people give way to I'm Raymond. I shock and the name of the book that I co edited with my father Ray shock is do you believe in rock and roll essays on Don mclean's American pie. So. Merrick in Padro mush Chevy to the living. The Levy was dry, then doodo boys would drink in whiskey. Seeing this will be the day that I. Be the day that. It tells the story of what happened to rock and roll from its beginnings in the late nineteen fifties. And how much the narrator? Don McLean, loved the music, and then how things developed over the nineteen sixties. And by the end of the nineteen sixties. He's disillusioned with where music has gone. It's America moving through a change from the black and white Eisenhower world into the more complex nineteen sixties and beyond the American pie was written recorded nineteen seventy-one. So it's right at the end of the nineteen sixties decade looking back. And all I remember back when things were simpler back when things were better look at the time period. There were a lot of things going on that did this Roger Kahn's book, boys. The summer that looked back at the Brooklyn Dodgers who left Brooklyn for LA in the late nineteen fifties that came out in nineteen seventy two special jump into your candy colored custom or you're screaming machine cruise downtown and catch a merry. Reckon graffiti movie American graffiti comes out in nineteen seventy three. Happy days shows up on television, nineteen seventy four this is the time where especially for that generation. They're looking back and saying we love this music. This is Merican as it gets. And American pie was a that really captured that what happened when American pie hit. It was a phenomenon as soon as the song came out people were asking what's it about songs? Too much with looking for things that you never wrote. Oh for sure people wanna find things anywhere. They can find people are searching for someone to lead them. What are the other things that Don McLean mentions? We know the buddy Holly references at the beginning of the song. And then it's okay now, given that what can this mean, what can this mean what was going on in one thousand nine hundred sixty three and nineteen sixty nine. Then looking at interviews with Don McLean, looking through liner notes looking through anything that might give a clue that could help fill in the gaps for what the song means. It was weird because it wasn't a press agent out saying. Is about buddy. Oh, you know. Who was I think every aspect of what I was thinking would actually be ought about. And dissect it and discussed and this has been going on for decades in an interview with Casey Kasem lead on that when he refers to the jester. King and cleaning. From James Dean voice that gain from the you. The gesture is Bob Dylan. The time the rain man last song, the me, I'm not city. And this is no place. I'm going point. He mentions the king. The king was looking down the test. This stole is thorny crown. The court was. Elvis the king. He hasn't got a thing. When he refers to the devil later on. Watched him mistake. My clinch tin. Being. That involves Altamont speedway in nineteen sixty nine and the Rolling Stones concert there and the violence that happened there where Hells Angels was providing security one man with killed and the idea that the hope of Woodstock that summer. It's over with all tomorrow. Probably the most dissecting lyric in the last verse when he talks about the father son, and Holy Ghost and the three men. The father son in the whole host. They caught the last chain. Coast today. Hundreds of theories out there. This is Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, and John F Kennedy who had all been killed in the nineteen sixties ramblin, Jack, Elliot, Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie. These were all significant influences on McLean. The other members of buddy Holly's band, the crickets all kinds of different views on that. You know, it's been the story of American pie for a lot of my life. That's the stuff. People wanna talk about. That's the song. People wanna talk about. But I don't hold it against them as gotten older, actually, it's become something and I'm thankful for because I'm seventy two years old. And you know, people still like something that I did. My name is Garth Brooks. I'm an entertainer that's kind of said loosely. Yes. When I first started playing music, probably college, you would close the bar down every night and uses the song would pick for everyone to sing along with the American pie. And so you just kept playing kept playing it. How long does it go? Well as recently as a week ago. I played American pie a thousand people can read the bible, and you'll get a thousand different opinions on what it means American pie thousand people can hear the song. You'll get a thousand different interpretations of what each line means. But we'll all agree on American pie is for some reason we love that saw we got to play a gig in central park for HBO in nineteen ninety seven. And then I thought it ended by asking Dhamma clean to come out and do American pie. It's a great honor the great privilege. Mr. Don McLean. When he walked out. Well, holy cow. This guy looked beautiful all in black. Those people aid it with a fork and spoon at easily put it in my top five greatest moments ever to be on stage. There have been very versions of the song. There have been various parodies of the song. Madonna didn't do a parody of it. But she did a version of the song. In nineteen ninety nine when Star Wars Episode one came out weird out Janka Vic did a version of the song called the saga begins on my. Iran and guy. Later Sunday later now Justice ball front. Home and kissed his, mommy goodbye. C going to be jed. It gives us a framework for telling epic tales in it's on the day. The nasdaq. National. Care. Pete. And they're very good. Very creative. Dotti Jackie's going be. Y'all. Jackie book, you so. Just for you, Jackie right. That he just ripped it off from American pie. The American pie guy written me off. That's actually what happens when a song becomes a folk song in wonderful blessing of my life. Some of my music has become folk music, and I don't think I could ask for any more than that. Day that. That's dawn McClain talking about his song American pie. We also heard from Raymond. I shock and Garth Brooks. That's where it was produced by Jimmy Cataldo and BMP audio American pie was recently inducted into the national recording registry by the library of congress, and you can hear dozens of other stores we've done about the important records in the national recording registry. Such as Gloria Gaynor's single. I will survive and George carlin's comedy album class clown. Those stories and many more are all on our website at studio three sixty dot org. Not a word was spoken. The church bells broken. And the three men at my most the father son in the whole host. They caught the last, and that's it for this episode studio. Three sixty is a production of PRI public radio international in association with slate. Our executive user is Jocelyn Gonzales. Our senior editor is into Adam Newman. Are sound engineer is Sandra Lopez months. Our producers are Lauren Hanson. Evan Chung Zoe Saunders. Fam- kim. Tommy bizarre areas. Our production assistant is Morgan Flannery. And I am Kurt Anderson. I don't think it's the villain. I think of him as a very strange friend. Thank you. Thank you very much for listening. Hey was singing. Miss american. Chevy to. It was. Boys. Drinking whisky. Sitting in this day today. Our public radio international next time on studio. Three sixty. We will sell no wine before its time. The public perception of late Orson is kind of a has been doing wine commercials. How those TV commercial gigs were funding Orson Welles unfinished final pattern project said as an actor by a prostitute. But as director remained virginal Oscar winning filmmaker Morgan nibble on Orson Welles next time on studio. Three sixty.

Singapore Don mclean Intel Kurt Anderson Seth Paul dean Denver George Toni Morrison Singapore director Chevy Netflix George Cardona Garth Brooks James Dean America Rushmore Lincoln Memorial Florida
111: Profiling Toni Morrison

Pure Nonfiction: Inside Documentary Film

17:55 min | 1 year ago

111: Profiling Toni Morrison

"Welcome to pure nonfiction podcast interviewing documentary filmmakers. I'm tom powers the documentary programmer for the toronto international film festival and artistic director of doc n._y._c. and this episode i talked to portrait photographer and filmmaker timothy greenfield sanders his most recent documentary is toni morrison the pieces i am profiling the nobel prize winning author her novels include the bluest eye soula sawn of solomon and beloved in the film. She talks about her motives to right sometimes uh-huh you nudged and sometimes you're just searching to make the writing interesting to me. It's not just writing. It's i. I don't know what this means that i have to find out timothy has a long history with morrison. He photographed her multiple. Times comes over three decades in two thousand six. She inspired him to undertake a film series called. The blacklist. Timothy directed three blacklist films in collaboration with elvis mitchell interviewing distinguish black figures from different fields. We hear the phrase blacklist or is that not you. Blacklists blacklist mean people to list that don't work anymore. Get treated like black people mothers others with his stories his cool. This isn't history to me black culturally. I had to fight. Virtually every single thing writing for me is keith. Who are we and what are we doing. Here just wanted to be somebody. I'm not the ambulance chasing the ambulance and never thought that i was only worth what they said. You get what you're caller event. Somebody else's problem. It's never been on really can be persuaded to think differently often identity human identity gone pimples. They talk about it. There's always going to kind of be an overreaction one way or the other for timothy's tony morrison film he collaborated with interviewer sandra guzman she was previously the editor in chief of latina magazine and conducted interviews for timothy's these films the women's list in the latino list the heart of tony morrison the pieces. I am is a long interview with the author. It's bands her childhood al`thood in lorain ohio her first career as a book editor and her effort to become a writer as a single mother of two sons. The film also includes testimonies from her friends and admirers like oprah winfrey. One of the characters says at the end of song of solomon and she was loved and she was does loved that is the anthem for any life. You can come to the planet and do whatever you do accomplish accomplish. Whatever you accomplish award no awards degrees no degrees successes no successes i think she captured the essence sense of what it means to be human to be alive and to have done well here on earth and we can say the same anything for her and she is my interview with timothy took place in may at the i._f._c. center enter before a live audience that included writer hilton ails who's interviewed in the film less than three months after our conversation. Morrison passed away at age eighty eight to begin. I asked timothy how he first met morrison in the early eighties that was <hes> <hes> when tar baby had just come out so <hes> song of solomon soula and bluest i had been published and tony was doing some press. <hes> i shot it for the cover of soho news which was kind of hipster weekly <hes> back then and you know we. We got along immediately lianne. We we talked a little bit about literature but particularly talked about the neighborhood. I lived in and i remember kind of walking tony to get a cab at the end and and we stayed in touch and then i started to do pictures for her for books <hes> particularly <hes> later on on a lot of the jacket covers and press stuff and <hes> i alluded to the time in two thousand six that was from the opera she in britain libretto for margaret gardner and we were doing pictures then <hes> for that and this beginning of the blacklist and so what were those sessions like come on what was the session with a photography session with her like compared to other authors that you think that it's always about getting the subject to trust you. Oh and that was something that yeah. Tony said to me a couple years ago. She said i. I let i let you see me you know and and the subject allows you to to get in there. It's never the other way around. You can never break down a subject really. I think i think the subject has to kind of let you in and tony trusted me early on i think in the picture show it you know we were a very collaborative portrait work that we did together so she had given you the inspiration to do this series at you embarked on with elvis mitchell the blacklist. Can you talk about how it went from the seed of an idea that she planted to what became attorney wanted to do. Black divas and i'm not an opera lover particularly enough that i would wanna. They do a whole project on opera but it started me thinking about just sort of african american talent in general that there was more than just oprah and barack obama they were all these other people that we could maybe interview and my idea then which now everyone does but was to do this sort of direct to camera <hes> talk where the where the subject is looking right at camera and it's just a very powerful way to do it. In those days earl morris was doing it. A couple of other filmmakers used it but it was rare and it was also my portraiture come to life so if you look at my portraits they're always director cameras single light source and it kinda gray backdrop so i wanted to turn that into film and one of the tricks. It's not a trick. One of the ideas here was that tony talks to camera. Only everyone else hilton ails right here. Second-row talks off camera <hes> they talk about tony and and i thought that could work. I've never seen it in documentary but the the main subject is looking at us and we have a kind of connection that way and then the others are talking thing about her and <hes>. How did you convince johnny morrison if it took convincing to do this film devoted to her you know i think when when the first blacklist film came out we all sat around thinking everyone in this film deserves a feature film this you know there's so much there's so many interesting stories and talents but tony was always the first in my mind tony was the first is set for the blacklist so oh it also a couple of years ago i realized tony was eighty four eighty five eighty eight now that if i'm gonna do it this time and i reached out to her and we talked about it and she you know she didn't say no and that's always a good sign in with tony and that really gave me the courage to cut it fine the funding and go back to her and say i have the money to do it in this was it's gonna be on television or the american masters was the idea back then it became because of sundance film that will now be in theaters. We're very excited with magnolia <hes> but i think tony you trusted me to do it. So what was the the process of interviewing her like. Sandra guzman who is credited in the film did the interviews didn't feel that i i am enough of tony scholar to do the interviews sandra drives a car that says soula on the license plate so at in love's tony deeply and really <hes> <hes> was very very eager to do this film and supportive and <hes> you know you who director you kind of create a space where everyone feels comfortable <hes> we. We did that the interviews the tony at her home so we set up apple studio. They're essentially a backdrop and did them there where she was more comfortable. The others all came to my studio in the east village and again. That's something you you do where you get. The person comes in and you offer some tea or coffee or you make them feel by the time they get to the set that they can trust this atmosphere miss fear now. There must be hundreds of people who are tony morrison. Fans are feel some connections that work that you could have chosen from in your in you very selective and deliberate about the people you did put into the film. Can you talk about curated collection of voices. It's it's very much. Tony's list <hes> there was a longer list <hes> that i had a lot of names on and tony took a nice pencil cross off and i i also you don't like to interview people and not put them in the film. There's one person we interviewed who's not in this film which peter sellars the theater director her and only because it was an easy way to pull seven minutes out of the film it's magnificent piece on shakespeare spirit tony <hes> desdemona that she wrote and othello and it's kind of conversation that happened between them at princeton and it's being the d._v._d. I guess but it's a wonderful wonderful piece but we pulled it and i don't like to do that. I liked if i'm gonna ask you to give me your time and sit for an interview you and be part of this. You should expect to be in the film. I mean there are so many extraordinary interviews on your sanchez. <hes> of course <hes> angela davis this still oprah's stands out as oprah and she brings so much energy to <hes> to her interview. I be remiss if i didn't ask you about filming with oprah we we went to oprah and we were told we have thirty minutes and we had thirty minutes and over gives you gold you gotta. You know she's very good at that. <hes> articulating a perfect kind of statement in a way right and she she actually broke down at one point. We didn't put it in the film but she was very emotional on she said at one point. I didn't expect to cry today. You know talking about tony morrison but oprah's deeply connected to tony you know did a lot with the book club of course but also really loves her and and you know it took me a year to arrange the interview but we got it. I've just heard anecdotally we we showed the film at the the miami film festival why work a couple months ago and <hes> i remember people saying i didn't know that chapter about her publishing career and other other people will say something else that they learned from <hes> from this film and and i wonder when you entered it obviously known her. You've done your research. It's about was their areas of her life or career that you came in extra curious about. I think the publishing career at random house is most people don't know about it and it's very important. <hes> you know there was a lot. This could be ten hours this film the problem ms this is such a gigantic life and we got so much material from the interviewees that it could have been easily three hours. It could have been in a ah. There's so much more there but we had to make decisions about what was important. I think <hes> her family. You understand her family in this you understand her where her grandparents come from her. You know all of the travels of her family. The migration great migration. You know the use of art art in the film is something i'm very proud of as well you see jacob lawrence's paintings in and that scene there when he talks about leaving coming to ohio so we try to incorporate other there's twenty two african american artists who gave us work for the film the the opening is by nicolini thomas who chad is here my producers who's a big fan and i. I didn't know mclean. I i loved her. I've always liked her work very much so i just called her and said you know we're doing this. Film on tony morrison jews consider doing a kind of collage opening waiting for us and she said i'm in you know and and that was the reaction of everyone who we reached out to from kerry james marshall to cara walker to all loran is simpson all of the different artists and and the music about ninety eight percent of the music is one one composer catherine bostick who's a musician from los angeles who we found on the internet and is just a brilliant brilliant composer imposer in the song. The end is hers. She sings it and she composed almost all the music. It doesn't shy on the wall where secrets burn brighter walk to the edge and dance with the duty free here in this conversation you serve of established. You're bona fides with your long history of tony morrison and she felt comfortable to have you do this film <hes> yet. Still people must look at this listened and thank you know. How does he get to be the guy who tells the tony morrison film and i wonder if you can talk about how you've come to answer that question for yourself. You mean the the white band who tells the tony morrison story <hes> you know i think it really comes back to trust that tony was very <hes> <hes> familiar with what i had done in film the blacklist series of course the latino list the outlets the translates the women's list all of those films about identity and she for the women's tony wrote the introduction and read it for us so she's she's very aware of these films and i think she knew what kind of filmmaker i am. I am and i also made it very tony had kind of been with me and other film home in the film. She saw what my crew was. How diverse was how much that meant to all of us to do that. <hes> tony makes decisions. It's kind of that kind of comes down to that and i think she i hope she saw the film and she's her comment. Was i like her <music>. I want to thank timothy greenfield sanders for speaking with me his film tony morrison the pieces. I am now playing in theaters released by magnolia pictures eventually come to p._b._s.'s american master series <music>. Thanks to our team series producer and northern swan and web designer cross ross strategy our theme music is composed by andre williams and our executive producer is rafael and they housing you can follow us on twitter instagram or facebook at pure nonfiction. I'm tom powers. You can follow me on twitter at t. h. O. m. powers you can read our show notes. Learn about live events and sign up for our newsletter at pure nonfiction dot net <music> <music> <music> yeah.

tony morrison director oprah timothy elvis mitchell oprah winfrey timothy greenfield nobel prize johnny morrison solomon timothy greenfield sanders toronto ohio earl morris programmer lorain latina magazine solomon soula doc n._y._c. margaret gardner