20 Episode results for "Tom Terry"

Why Not Just Be The Best?

Marketing Secrets

13:18 min | 7 months ago

Why Not Just Be The Best?

"What's up everybody is Russell. Brunson welcome back marking secrets podcast as always. Grateful. You're here before were hanging out and excited to share with you guys that I think will be helpful your career in your life in your marriage and your family and everything you do. So that says Cuban things song and I'll be back in a second. So the big question is this. How we're entrepreneurs like us. Didn't cheat and take on venture capital for spending money flow own pockets. Marketing away. The lets us get our products and our services and the things that he believe in out of the world and yet still remain faulk edible. That is the question in this podcast will give you the answer. My name's offer Brunson and welcome the marketing secrets. All right. So Last weekend was insane I duNNo. If I told you this yet private and county deep. But I chance to go speaker Gingrich Season Tony Robbins Event Tony's studio which he built a huge studio and covert hit Zoom rumors like this huge stadium, rapin zoom walls and. It was crazy scam. You saw that pitchers but it was really special and really fun and we're actually flew there in Tony's private plane, which was crazy she his house and just it was really special weekend but. Telling you too much of that. I was thinking go deeper. So many crazy. A three call talking about although haase antiquated from that. I. Will drop out to you throughout the next few episodes but. There's one thing that's interesting. So We decided women, there were six days, which is kind of cool. We had out some really cool people and just relax and take a break a little bit and you know at the hotel there's so gets the scoop massages. So we started from Sasha two different days and obviously now the Cova, there's weirdness Boise Lovato. Idaho's is different but in Florida, were at, they have different rules rights face masks more often all sorts of stuff. So go get our first massage and He didn't there and it was only sixty minute massage because that's all they had time for that day or whatever, and this comes out she puts on plastic gloves, which was kind of weird Mike wasn't my favorite by Monica. Whatever. So And It was not it was not my favorite massage. Partially because they anyway, there are a lot of reasons why I just it was. Annoyed like it wouldn't feel good. It was just like she was technically giving massage but was not getting Sasha so much. So by the end of my sixty minutes like normally get a ninety minute massage and my sixteen massage like I just wanted to be done I was like it was like the longest sixty minutes life miserable I didn't have a good time and is even thinking like I hate massage like maybe maybe changed mental like the January maybe whatever and I'm so annoyed and finally got Donald. Kevin's is over I give me out of here and I just like Laugh A. Beautiful SPA and all these like I'm done like I don't I don't do beside I don't do. Anymore despise like I just had a horrible experience I I make. ASSANGE again anime rafter. GotTa massages later and then met afterwards and and I was like that was horrible. I don't ever want to give me Josh again and he said we have booked for tomorrow. May I know him? I don't really want to go as we cancel and. anyway it was just it was interesting. So. Next I go back because they have a twenty four hour cancellation periods have to Sasha like massages. This is GonNa be ninety minutes I'm going to be miserable. Just the whole thing right. So get there and kind of bad attitude and talking to Susan she's different person in super. Nice, and we we out massages she starts. The same thing has for the plastic gloves, which is kind of annoying but whatever. Does massage and this time it is a complete experience. was like an artist like it was it was amazing. Everything. It's Chris spend the same amount of money both massages. Right and the first one I wanted to die I wanted to get off the table on the right next person was insane. They were amazing like the ninety minutes was over and I was like, are you kidding me like I want to give you some more money? I spent flip back over and keep doing this back and forth all day. Until your to your shift or whatever like it was it was it was amazing and I remember laying there thinking about how like just twenty four hours earlier massage from person CEO same same spa everything and how I hated it, and this was amazing. Why would they compete anything to continue this experience longer and I started thinking about? This right both of these people would consider themselves from sizes masseuses right Both and got paid to say May to do the job but one was artist one was great. What they do and one was just did the thing, right? And I started thinking about my life lake. Everything. I've done I've tried. I don't know I always wanted to be the best I remember when I was wrestling about this this. This tape has s tape pre DVD's. And it was. The story about Tom Terry brands were twin brothers who are wrestlers, Iowa. Remember the movie started with I tom brands he comes and says, my name's Tom Brands my goal simple going to be the best wrestler in the world. Next thing came up as Terry brant my goal simple. I want to be the best wrestler in the whole world and that's how starts and boom. It goes into training montage and stuff and I was just like, yes. I remember thinking I. Can make my name's Russell Brunson the great wrestler in the world right and so I because I didn't want to be a good wrestler I want to be like okay. I wanted to be the best in the world and obviously never got there. That was my belief because I got way for the night probably ever should've gotten my skill and talent level right? I've state champ. I was an all American second in the Nation High School into college. Rank the top ten college never place NCA but but you know I did I heard your career and which to business was the same thing I got into business I wasn't on make moody who I was like. The greatest market ever lived like if I'm doing this job anywhere might as well take the amazing it right like. and. And I was just thinking about during massage just like people have the same job title. One's amazing ones like. You know and I think about for all of us like my kids. I. Keep with my kids and I don't care. We don't care what you WanNa be when you grow up like don't be like, okay. Be The best in the world like. A how do you? How do you become amazing not just give amazing. What are you have to do different I don't know I don't know how to teach that exactly more. So than just like helping has want that desire like don't be the crappy I think about funnel building right like th. There's tons of you without teaching fungibility and doing fun bill and you can hire someone and you will they hire someone in they get a funnel in the funnel stocks and she's like. You know your federal building become the best in the world obsess about designing copying all these things that when you build someone to funnel like you handed to them, it should be art they should be away by just like you know the second has blown away like. That's experience when a gift somebody if you can't give some experience like you need to geek out more, you got to go deeper you had become better. Become the best in the world that you are in your craft whatever it is right. If I was a dentist locators dentist, but there's there's amazing dense chiropractic. I won't be good chiropractor on the best in the world. Hey. Everyone I wanted to quickly interrupt this podcast episode lately about something really cool I just started doing that want you to be part of I just opened up a texting community, which means you can text me your questions and right now I'm spending anywhere between ten and thirty minutes every single day answering questions through text messages to people who are on the podcast, and so I want you to stop everything you're doing pull your phone out and actually texts me a message on. The phone number you need text is two, eight, two, three, one, three, seven, nine, seven once again it's two, eight, two, three, one, three, seven, nine, seven when you text me say hello, and then what's going to happen to my phone and then they'll send you back a message where you can add to your phone, and then we are having conversations on top of that through this texting communities where GonNa be giving free swag giving away a free copy of my book I lay know about. About time coming to your local area and a whole bunch more. So WanNa make sure you were on this list on top of that every day I'm sending out my favorite quotes, frameworks and things you can get for free only through by texting platform. So when you need to right now player phone and text me at Area Code Two, zero, eight, two, three, one, three, seven, nine, seven, one more time that's two, eight, three, two, one, three, seven, nine, seven, I can't wait to hear from you right now. There's tears there's levels you see in every industry right every and she to where my buddies who's like one of the top doctors. had a doctor in the best in the world and and that's that and he told me like if you ever get sick here in Idaho, told me ahead of time and I'll tell you which doctors to go to as they're really that big of a difference. He's like ignored it which doctor got a D. in their class when she's got a right, there's definitely a difference they just. 'cause they have a degree does not mean that the same thing you know if you have someone cutting you open they who do you want the person's okay. The best in the world and so I think there's a couple of things. Number one is like when you were trying to hire someone to do something to look for somebody who's okay. Let go find people who the best in the world. I mean, they spend the extra money spend extra time like find the best in the world you looking for employees don't find people that are here. Okay. They find the best in the world right and then for you don't be okay if I go I'm okay I'm good. They don't do that beat the best in the world. Not, that much harder right I mean, it's GonNa. It's GonNa. Take more time effort man. When you go in the best of all people travel from everywhere to come to spend more to get to you, they will do everything because. I would've paid that the second masseuse ten times where the first one and happily I'll fight her to boise once a month get massage. That's how good it was right In an understanding that versus like. That was okay. That was good. You know. I don't know if you put that much love and craft again I'm talking to funnel billed as you were an agency justified out like like man they put in the time I, don't give a crap like make sure you become the best in the world understanding all the pieces like how to make fun of go from good to great. What's the difference is image size? Text copy video. Storytelling all the things they don't dabble like become obsessed like if you watch the way that I build a funnel with my team like I'm obsessive about like they're spending so much time on the headline like, yeah because that's the most important part idea man you spend time crafting scripts video and the Yes because I want to be the best in the world I don't WanNa be okay and so you guys you to that like how do you become the best? Do that. Man You will. Make life is better. You'll serve more people like. You know your your experiences will increase I didn't get a chance to go speak at Tony's event because I was like a funnel builder because then okay companies because like I've been obsessed becoming the best and you know people who who are in that same way people obsessed with that. They recognize and respect it, and they follow it, and so if you WANNA be in good company with the right people. obsess about that. So anyway, that's my call said. The top of my mind during that whole massage and it's like man look at this experience. Right I can everything I want to find the person who's the best not the not the person who's good. And then on the flip side like I want to become the best I want to be good for all of you guys just like I did when I heard the wrestling video bindings Tom, brands want to be the greatest wrestler in the world names Terry brands want to be the greatest wrestling world by Russell. Brunson. I want to be the greatest wrestler in the world. Russell. Brunson be the greatest Martha during the world what is your thing? What is it that you want to be the greatest in the world that what are you willing to put in the time in the effort and the stress and the pressure and the ups and downs and the pain to be able to the best at. K. because when when this life is done in a wraps up and it's over right like we WANNA leave it. No one night I. I became the best of this thing. I loved so much. I'm so passionate about it like I cared enough to make myself the best maybe you'll never get it. I. Never even the Best Wrestler, the journey of that meant everything to me right I it translated into so many get things in my life like I'm so grateful for everyone experiences I didn't become the best but the pursuit of becoming the best. is what gave me the life now and I'm so grateful for and I wouldn't trade that for anything. So. Pick what it is what do you want me the best in the world that and then pursue it with your heart with your soul with everything you have and if you do that man, I promise you, your life will be richer. You relationships will be fuller and get access to people and things that you never trumper. Possible. that. Set appreciate y'all. So please tag me in it. on social I can see the media comments love to hear back from you guys. Thanks so much and I'll talk to you all against everybody. Hey this Russell again and real quick. I wanted to invite you to join Arguably the best thing that we've ever put out inside to click funds community and it is a challenge. We call the one following challenge everyone in their business in their life, their one foot away from something. So you guys one fun away from quitting your job and has one frontal way getting more impacts me as fun away from growing your company to the next level and so we created this challenge to help you to. Create and launch your first or your next funnel. No matter where you are in Your Business this challenge is going to help us to help you understand the strategy tactic to understand all the things you need to be successful to your funnel. So our recommend you do right now is stop everything positive audio, go online, and go to one fun away dot com. That's one fun away dot com joined the next challenge the challenge starting in the next few days to get started right now one frontal way DOT com.

Russell Brunson Tony Robbins Sasha Idaho Terry brant Tom Brands faulk Cuban Tom Terry Gingrich haase CEO ASSANGE Nation High School Donald Kevin Josh Susan Mike
The 4 Eyed Professor Episode 2: Getting Started with Glaucoma

Defocus Media

28:04 min | 2 months ago

The 4 Eyed Professor Episode 2: Getting Started with Glaucoma

"This is a de focus media production. Hey everybody i'm your forehead. professor. Chris leaves and i'm super excited to talk to you. Today are rollcall is for new inexperienced. Od's optometry students even those just interested in this profession. We'll cover a number of topics together and help you see through. professors is. Please take your seats. School's in session everybody for joining. Today i have a guest on the podcast. Dr drew ricksen. Who is an optometrist at a memphis at a up. Va medical center. And we're top talking about glaucoma. Dr ricksen drew is a member of the metric lacomb society and he is a leader in the american academy of optometry coma. Section an actuality. He's a rising leader in thomas with regards to glaucoma and you should be on the alert to look out for him in ce lecturers advisory boards advice particularly with this topic and so i'm very excited to have him join us today to talk about really what optometry has been doing for quite a long time which is managing a lion. The lion share of the coma patients out there. I drew makers thanks for having me on and yeah absolutely i mean i think you know we as the primary accurate profession Especially the population trends patients getting older and older and older. We're gonna see more and more of disease and we need to be the primary managers Screening as well as management going forward to help capture this prevent blindness. That's our role. How did you first develop an interesting interesting. I think you know. I've done that. Residency in family practice Come down to see specifically at the time from connecticut. Originally come down to tennessee because the laws were so much more All encompassing i think it was more aligned with. What the flossy The philosophies were that i was taught at pennsylvania. College tom terry so when i came down here you know i saw a whole bunch of everything In family practice and it was kind of like a jack of all trades master of none sort of scenario. When i got over to the memphis. Va i realized that you actually were a lot of deficiencies. I had calm. And you know in memphis where were about memphis. Proper probably has about seventy percent. African american. We do have just epidemiologically. A higher percentage of oklahoma patients. So something that you absolutely have to master In order to just do the best. You can't for patients. Yeah that's fantastic. I totally get that. What about you know your efforts in the as i mentioned earlier in the academy. Gs how did you. How did you really raise your hand and say. Hey i want to be more involved in really you know getting get recognized interesting. I was talking to someone about that the other day about saying you know people will say all the time. Oh you know. How's that person able to do that. Or they must have cop breaks all the other stuff and the reality is most of the time. It's just that person's willing to step up and volunteer. And i think i was really nervous about doing that at first because you sometimes wonder. Are you capable of actually having success in actually contributing. And all i did was i went to the The section meeting and that was like. Hey hey you you're gonna do this. I involved with the education standpoint and met a lot of really superior optometrist. We've been a lot of really good talent without a profession and they've helped kind of mentor me and then to me and gawk coma. The ultimate Is really getting into the metric coma society. I think that's by far the top of the line of what we have in the profession. are homosexual and academies really on the rise as well. I'm also pursuing my diplomat I'll be sitting within my oral coming up so To me it's just like if you have an interest There is no shortage of shortage of opportunity because most people are honestly not stepping up. Yeah i i couldn't agree with you more. Sometimes you just have to raise your hand absolutely involved in volunteer and some and then sometimes many many more doors open after you. Just get that first door open absolutely plus it plus it kind of breaks down your barriers and it kind of empowers you to realize you can do it. It's a matter of a cumulative process. You just have to get going in the in the start. You know that you maintain so if you were talking to say i was a optometry student or resident or early in practice or maybe i just. I'm established but i moved to an area that has a lot of glaucoma moved to a practice in which i'm going to be responsible you. What do you suggest to me. How do i get started. How do i develop some confidence in this disease state. Yeah i think it's just the knowledge that you've been trained appropriately within whatever school or college of optometry that you went to to manage glaucoma It's a matter of almost demystifying. Com is being something that you were really worried that someone's necessarily gonna go blind Most scott komo's are not gonna be that massively or rapidly progressive that you can't at least kind of dip your toes in without creating harm for the patient and so. I think it's really important just to know that you're able to do it. And there's a lot of resources out there. You know peer to peer resources. You know i was looking at a That review of tom tree did in one of the number one. Barriers was actually equipment This is the main thing. I think investing in equipment to really really important if you are going to invest in yourself and in your patience another one was insurance and then the other one was literally You know just the barrier of not feeling comfortable with it. I think if i was gonna talk to an early practitioner or fourth year or third year. I think it's a matter of establishing good habits early on so again i go back to empower them and challenging yourself And once you challenge yourself. You'll be empowered to move forward. It's really important to start developing good habits when you're a third year fourth year so when it's it's one of these things like oh i really just don't wanna do johnny oscar. We always we always joke around about. I wanted to clear room of third year fourth year. Interns i gotta ask me but once they start doing that. Third or fourth gone you. It's like okay you know. This is more challenging than it was in lab. I'm doing this and it's just it's it's like the self fulfilling prophecy just need to get going and again if you are vigilant with this and you're careful and you do good based on examination although you may not have the answer right away if your patient you'll develop those skills and then those will just build upon each other just having that solid foundation so let's continue on that track office in regards to go be specifically so if if i'm managing patient i don't know say around age fifty and i diagnosed with primary open angle coma so at some point i have done going ask you say yes as patients angle is open but throughout this fifty rolls lifetime given this new sure for glaucoma that angle may not be open forever so how how frequently do do suggest that i repeat gonna ask the oldest lifetime of his asia. That's a really good question. I think it would depend on. If we're just talking about like vanilla tax situation. i mean every couple years And i don't know that there's any standard of care is theon beating ganassi after. Look at what payers would pay as well. I don't know if that's an annual thing You know not that. That's our primary emphasis but you obviously want to get paid for what you do. So i'd say you know some people say you know every five years every couple of years for me from just a practice standpoint i should you have a residence do it. Every single u But that's that's trying to again. Establish those foundational skill sites. I don't think that's you know creating harm for the patient either so it really is a good question. I think it's it. What would it take for the angle. Close over time in a fifty year old. That didn't have risk factors of said lands growing. And and you're starting to inhibit things. So i know how. How do you usually approach that. You are the same page with regards to that. I i honestly tried to do it. Every year And if for some reason. I'm short on time or i'm having a rough day with regards to patients piling up and i don't i don't feel like i want to do it or maybe the patients want do it that day i made. I may do whatever twenty four months. I tried every year. Yeah i mean. I think you just have to establish your own set of parents. I'd have to look at at american academy of ophthalmology practice parents. I'm not sure that there is one forgot hill and i may just be sitting around. Not but so you mentioned up to metric relate All it provider equipment is in specifically with glaucoma. And so when. I go down that path for a moment One of the debates over the years even long ago used to be form versus function and before the advent of oct's we had obviously our own is in oscar. Looking at the optic nerve. We had retinal cameras in which we could take stereo optic nerve photos or sometimes just two-dimensional photos. We might say to ourselves in the course of an exam. Wow it looks like this nervous changing. But if the field wasn't worsening that how aggressive do i need to be form versus function and now we have oct which gives a very different more in depth. Look at the optic nerve and optic neuropathy as things progress and cisco same questions you today and persist today if i see progression those e t but the patient's function is not changing. How aggressive do i do. I still need to be. Yeah yeah no. There's been a huge paradigm shift over the last. You know i'm gonna say fifteen years but let's say the last decade and that whole conversation there's really paper that was done by The folks that were involved in the m. t. Studying came out a couple of years ago and they looked at structure versus functions far as the behavior and found that structure and function matched up while he was like out of three hundred and six patients or something like that. So it's a rare. It's a rarity but it's also how those studies are framed how they're developed There was a good Editorial that came out a couple of years ago that talk about structure versus function and titled as the debate. That does not need to be had because these are complementary to each other. They're in different units so one one near units namely oc and one's rhythmic units namely You know visual fields so you. We need to not be arguing. We need to use them together. And so i think the most important thing is to integrate. We did pay paper myself more than for review. Tom tree like two years ago and it was called visual fields. In the era of those take. And what i started out with the opening paragraph was our visual fields. Still carrying are is not king is one better than the other are they mutually exclusive or should they be integrate and by all means they need to be integrated. It's just do you have the software that actually easily integrates it and can be doing it done in an efficient way so that we're able to you know just maximize what our abilities take. Care of. The patient is getting overly confused. Because i think the more data you have the more confounded you can be especially it depends on how you use that data. I remember distinctly. When i use the oct for the very first time And then since since that time at that time pointed had many different brands At many different scans. And i remember initially right out of the gate religious feeling overwhelmed by what this instrument could do in an really admitting to myself. Wow if i do this. I'm probably doing it at one percent of this instruments capability and so do you think for lack of a better way of questioning in this way that an oc oct can be a crutch for us. You know it can give us what some lecturers refer to as green yellow red disease. Where when the machine do allow machine to tell us what to do to a large and potentially dangerous except yeah. I think that's always always an issue. I tell every reson student doctor anytime. I lecture that the most important person or most important entity in that exam room is always the him So the machines at this point should meet should not be doing our job for us. Obviously as a comes down deep learning i'll be more and more successful as repeatability concern in helping us do our jobs. We still have to be the one driving the driving the ship. 'em saying we can't be we gotta be wagging tail. The tail can't be wagging off. So i think the utilization of not as the be all and end-all without interpretation by the human definitely risky You mentioned the traffic lights. Red yellow green. And that's so deeply embedded in our psyches. Just how we how we grow up in society but machines on perfect. There's reproducibility errors. There are operator errors there machiners. There are patient errors and there is some level of sophistication. That's necessary or order to use these things correctly And it is it's a it's a completely different language That i continually learn every day. The various pratfalls involved no seat And so you have to recognize that And when you're doing screening exams constantly just because you achieved something that the machines reference database gave. You doesn't mean that person has disease at the end of the day and and you mentioned earlier. The clinical evaluation of the optic nerve should supplant everything in order to even decide whether you're doing a testing and you as the human still needs to drive everything so maybe too long at answer but no let me keep going because i want to ask you the same topic but in a little bit different way dot com one of the topics that i had on a podcast. That's either Ben posted or upcoming is when. I'm chart charting for a patient. I'm looking at you know documenting i always consider. How might this look if you'd by somebody else step. And how might somebody else care for this patient if they were in my shoes today with the patient and so if i have a patient. That already has the diagnosis of glaucoma. All mayor chart. Before i see them and i'm seeing them and now i'm doubting the diagnosis to me. I'm always thinking well you know it's it's a lot harder to to change in deleted. I knows than it than it is to make one in this whole topic of green yellow red traffic lights on obt when everything is crazy read. Sometimes a lot of us can be nervous to say wow. I want to overrule this instrument to delete this diagnosis. Yeah i mean that's a that's a. That's a constant issue and i don't know that there's medical legal precedents for someone ultimately progressing. That was you diagnosed based on an instrument and then someone clinically said. No this person is there minus nine mile and they're like a true actual my and then there's manifestation on the machine and then it falsely you dictates that there's red or you first percentile. I think we have to go back to the fact that this is not a normative database that you're looking at a reference database of say like two hundred and seventy-five patients on serious roughly I think that you should still be the one. That's in power to make that decision Little caveat to that those if you get a patient that comes in and they're diagnosed with and you're absolutely convinced they don't have glaucoma. I do think you have to tread lightly as far as how. You're managing patient because you have to you really have to kind of establish that relationship with them Because they're not gonna say trust you if they've told they've been told that they have a vision threatening entity They're gonna go blind from. It's like it's tough to overcome that emotional burden so usually we all do is all kinds of set the table and talk to them about how you maybe our philosophies on golf home have changed and as as a result in maybe in the future i may be able to actually take your drops since i'm just seeing you for the first time. We need to gather more more information. So you don't throw the other person to the bus You knowledge that something's been diagnosed and you kind of work your way through So you're actually considering the patient from holistic standpoint. Just just a thought as as you ask that question. We i get it well. Let's say we have a patient of our own and our patient seems to be progressing despite our best efforts and we really begin to wonder. Is this if the patients on topical treatment regimen are. They really took us the truth. I really do taking these drops. How do you navigate back. Yeah i mean just to be blunt you don't but you do so so i'll i'll explain so when you look at research. A lot of is done a wilmer. What they found was that these patients most patients do not have medication. Even on hand From pharmacy data. They find that you can't tell whether or not someone's using their medications most part most of the time based on iop you can't tell based on calf color you can't tell by asking And the reasons for that are mainly doctor patient. Communication and then healthcare literacy that patients do not a- and so it's a matter of trying to develop the relationship where you they mystify things for the patient help them understand what's going on make them more healthcare literate and then hopefully empower them to have more success going forward You know the critical timeframe for medication. Adherence is about ninety days studies. Show so you really have to county. It's it's maybe not politically correct term. But you really have to essentially babysit them very stringently early on and then you have to realize that a lot of the times patients are not using their medication. The only way you're gonna be able to determine whether or not you're having success or failure is based on those trend lots Both on function and structure. So they're not progressing. You can pat yourself on the back whether they're using their medications or not if they are progressing and they are using the medications. you know. You can't verify you have to step up and escalate your treatment So it's a maddeningly frustrating thing What they have shown is really beneficial coming up like an educational slide deck as something. I stole from After metric educators Meeting and david freedman. Who's up at I think he's the come share masci in your now. He just put together a little slots about a minute and a half. It breaks down glaucoma in a way that the average patient can understand. You know with a different. I guess vocab than we have doctors. We have a tremendously greater vocab. You have to still down to their level and when you go through that then you do kind of You ask them on the front end. Then you tell then you ask. And that's shown to actually improve adherence and prove that conversation so to me. it's it's a matter of understanding. That's gonna be really hard for you to assassinate hearings. Based on conventional methods we've used Because most of the time our biases and our beliefs are wrong based on studies. So it's just building that relationship to try to maximize knew how you're actually having impact. I love it. i'm telling you remember. That are two questions for you. I is so you have this patient. That's caressing and you don't think it's a compliance issue. Maybe you've reached your maximum medical therapy for this individual. When do you initiate a referral to a coma specialist. Let's say when you feel like he is out of your hands. you know. i've always had a really threshold on this backstory. With me and again i have some biases is my dad. Has exploitation ball karma has been through multiple procedures You know he's not able to drive anymore And you know. I think if you look back through the records you can point fingers but i think this happens a lot of times. We tend to try to hang on What the coma communities tried to move work towards is is the buzzword of the last two years has been interventional glaucoma And they're even talking about proactive surgery now so as we have these devices that are less invasive relatively speaking and are effective And you have you know sustained release drugs and all of us other stuff. I think that as a profession we should be moving more and more to having a lower threshold to refer out given the fact that we know that these patients are not using their medications a lot of times. And let's face it. It's a symptomless disease for the most part until it gets really are law. This is my patients all the time. I came in and hits your knee with a hammer. And i gave you some more tab. You would know the lower tab would work right right. But if i can tell you. Have a blinding disease. That doesn't affect you at this at this time and then i put you on medications. I make your eyes red. I give you deepen said. Is they give you longer eyelashes to put you inside because you can have surfaced as horrible. I just made your life worse. And that's what you're dealing with so we have to understand that from a human standpoint. That's there's a good rationale as far as why patients don't use their medications because it's almost like the burden is worse than the benefit. As far as what they're dealing with. So i think again i've always had a low threshold to send out For slt. i won my entire career. And i think that's part of the informed consent process is giving patients their options and then helping them to make informed decisions but case. Max medical therapy you gotta send out. You have to be able to detect that. I but you have to understand that gawk homa. Although not entirely a surgical disease Has a really good surgical indication. And you know you wanna make sure that. You're taking care of that patient. Above all so i. I don't know i've always had a low threshold. I definitely embrace the interventional. Glaucoma mindset. And i know point in my worried about losing my patience because it's not going to happen. They're still going to be seeing me for all the medical management once. We've hopefully gotten them down to having less medication. Burden or similar medication burden but not losing function. Yeah that's a professional and it definitely makes sense in that approach. I didn't think the patients would understand that as well. Let's wrap up with So for your next motivated. Optometry student or resident who wants to get into glaucoma as area of interest They don't know where to start. So one of the first thing or things that you direct them to a refresh on a read. Yeah you know reading materials always interesting now as we're sitting here doing a podcast You the one thing. I will tell you since. Visual fields are still a huge portion of our game. effective parameter is an absolute must read. It should be available in pdf form online for free Most schools will provide that for their students. And it really isn't easy read It's kind of tough to get over the hump of like you really want me to sit down and read an entire on peremptory and the answer is actually yes as actually way easier and more digestible than you think it would be. So i'd say reading material affected peremptory. I think from a just overall conference of stuff. Ghani me dot org I think is a really awesome thing. That walsall word is put together. He's also put together the iowa Glaucoma curriculum which is on University iowa algae's website There's i got coma And that's by constance okay. Who is out of virginia consultants. One of my friends used to work with her. And she's awesome. It's a youtube channel So all these things that they they help again. I know i'm redundant here on the occasion. But they help you feel more comfortable with how they present the materials and it's not over the laborious or time consuming to john jesse's things and i think they're really good for empowerment and then lastly just a plug from consulting for tele site which is a new peer to peer Model and essentially. You could send us you know glaucoma information. We could talk real time consulting But you're going to have to do that. Just you can seek out information from your peers. I think the bottom line is that we have to own glaucoma and optometry. And we're more than capable of owning dot com. We just have to do it. We're still at the point where we're ten percent of. Od's are writing ninety percent of dot com scripts. We need to do better at that. Population is going double By twenty fifty of gawk calmness. You you got it next year them. First millennial becomes prebiotic and that's generation. That's crazy oh yet. This is going to be in front of us in our offices and hands for the coming decades. Yeah i know. We're run out of time here. But i looked at the san francisco matched data for like a year or two ago and that's ophthalmology residency programme matching. And they're flat. They've been flat for about the last ten years. As far as people are going into ophthalmology. So you know it's up to us. It's not that ophthalmology can't handle some of it but they need to be handling the surgical aspect of Because quite frankly they probably won't be able to handle the volume that we're going to have to handle so it's not a matter of do we want to step up. We need to step up. There's a healthcare aspect that's where we need to get the job done as primary care physicians. I love it. Thank you so much drew for joining me today. My pleasure to talk to you. Thanks for all that you do with glaucoma. On deputy guy takes him as information myself to get better as i hope all the listeners. Do as well in fact rodney chris. Classes ended for today and we have no exams or grades approaching. Please email me at four. I'd professor at gmail.com. There are topics that you would like to hear and see through a professors is.

glaucoma memphis coma Dr drew ricksen Dr ricksen drew metric lacomb society american academy of optometry tom terry scott komo tom tree johnny oscar Tom tree Va medical center reson ganassi american academy of ophthalmol connecticut tennessee Va
579 Kerouac's Firewatch; Erosion; USA National Parks

Travel with Rick Steves

51:17 min | 1 year ago

579 Kerouac's Firewatch; Erosion; USA National Parks

"In the American wilderness can get under your skin and unexpected ways coming up. We'll hear how beat writer Jack Kerouac couldn't cope with the solitude while working king as I look out in the Pacific northwest by the end of his stint he had developed several invisible friends and he was having a highly competitive poker tournament with the mole. Tom Terry Tempest Williams reminds us how the erosion and the Utah Landscape holds lessons for our times suddenly the Colorado River was running red people were stopping taking pictures laughing all drenched and you just think this is what matters and this is what cleans our souls and Becky Lomax Amax explorers more national parks she not the Wilderness at Theodore Roosevelt National Park. North Dakota has a fun site to the had. These silly prairie dog towns where the prey dogs are running around. I'm there so-social end their funding. It's all ahead on travel with Rick. Steves come along Terry. Tempest Williams has found that erosion has a lot to say about the times we live him. She explains what the desert has been teaching her likely a little later in the hour. Our plus Becky Lomax recommends ways to immerse yourself in nature at a national park. That's in just a bit. Dan Richards is the kind of guy who goes out of his way to experience the solitude of man-made shelters and some of the wildest ends of the Earth in his book outpost. He takes us to ten far-flung post including the CAIRNGORMS at the Scottish highlands frozen Arctic Ghost towns and Mountaintop Shrines Japan not far from my home he also also followed in the footsteps of beat writer Jack Carroll who spent a summer on assignment at an isolated fire watch lookout in the cascade mountains so damn. Where did you go would find this watch tower that Kerouac wrote about I visited desolation peak which is in Washington State and in Nineteen fifty-six Jack Kerouac expense sixty three days there on top of the mountain desolation peak as a file account so his job was to watch for smoke on the horizon where the forested slopes around him might be a light because of lightning striking or misadventure hikers things like that and his job was to radio so in the sightings and he had a turntable before him couldn't osborne fire finder which is really like a little turntable recross has so you could get a bearing breath on them where exactly this pyre smoke was coming from and then another look on another mountain would do the same and then you would have a triangulation and teams of firefighters laugh fighters could be sent to these places to try and put out blazes really before they started now? Jack Kerouac spent sixty three days there essentially working as of as a fire lookout. Why would he spent so much time up there was he was he there too right or was he there to escape? was He there to relax. I think all of those his friend Gary Schneider the pilots are prize winning poet and fellow Buddhist had spent a couple of summers up on Sour Dough Mountain which is a few miles from desolation peak aac although actually to get there would take you a couple of days of solid hiking such as remoteness of these areas and Schneider said to karaoke that fire lookout not it afforded great leisure to write but you had to keep your wits about you and you had to be on a good with your own company and Karak's saw this I think as an opportunity to get work done but also ever since he was a young child he really wanted to be an outdoorsman. You know to go and spend time by himself and discover who really he was. In solitude solitude had always been this great undiscovered thing for him but then when he actually went when his he actually spent these sixty three days he got fairly depressed and valley crazed and fairly Farrell very quickly klay by the second week he'd smoked all of his tobacco he was smoking coffee grounds by the end of his stint he had developed several invisible friends and he was having a highly competitive poker tournament with the mall. He's curled around in a tiny attic. You have to imagine this outpost is like a little shanty Belvedere sort of like almost a conservatory because he needed three hundred sixty degree views of all the mountains around him to do his job nope so he has his tiny little attic and he crawled up into the attic and he'd read all of the newspapers that were up there for insulation he had made made all these notes but he'd gone pretty crazy and I think as with so many people when they go to the wild places that idea of what they'll be like and the reality was vastly different for him but then later he wrote about his stay he wrote about the stay three times in three different books. It's in the dumb bombs it's in desolation S. elation angels and he wrote about it in his essay collection lonesome traveler and each time that he writes about it. He reframed himself as better at being being alone as a better outdoorsman I think than he actually was because he you know a year today that he came down from his mountain area on the road was published in his life changed overnight. You know he went from a position where he couldn't get arrested this guy you know everyone knew about Qarawat but nobody wanted to publish him and then almost overnight on the road comes out and he turns into this almost Proto Dylan TV radio age superstar where his time has his own anymore anymore. You know everyone wants to buy a drink. Everyone wants his unpublished material to publish and for a quite addictive personality to put it mildly of Karaoke Harak. This was the worst thing in a way that could have happened to him and I think he looked back on these sixty three days of solitude as both a missed opportunity in a way that he wished wished he'd been better suited for it but also is how c and time because he never knew that kind of silence again his life became overnight blaring loud he became public property. That is such a fascinating story. I mean this time on the watch. Tower really was a a threshold for him wasn't it it was the making king of him in a way but also it was the breaking of him and I put myself in Karak shoes and I imagine the shame that he felt when he had to radio in a plea for help for more tobacco so for some food you know because he wanted to be the guy who could own it. You know own his stint almost in a kind of military way. I don't think it's coincidence that a lot of the Look House that the US Forest Service have now they're veterans you know people who have been trained to look after themselves right and Karaoke imagined agent. He was like that but then when he actually got there when he actually set himself up he discovered he was not the man he thought he was. This is travel with Rick Steves talking with Dan Richardson isn't Dan wrote a fascinating book outpost a journey to the wild ends of the earth then work specifically talking of the ten outposts that Dan did visit in discussing cussing is book. We're talking about the outpost in my home state of Washington. It's desolation peak in the North Cascades and Dan you don't just call an Uber and go there. You have to earn earned these spots. What was it like getting to the desolation peak fire lookout we drove north to place Bellingham and then we turned off the main lane highway and we began to we went east fezzet tango concrete which was a Cadillac had pegged as the last five and dime before you know you really hit the Wilde's? I spent a night in a place called mob amount and that was where I had a motel and then the next morning I went to the ranger base back on a stir so it could store all oh my food away from my tent 'cause I was camping up there and then carried on a meal following the Scott River and you go up past the Ross Dams uh-huh there are three amazing dams there and you keep going and then you'll really really beginning to get over the kind of battlements and in to this kind Kamei's savage fortress of the cascade mountains and then in my case what I did was I had on my kit and I got a boat up Ross Lake with an amazing using Guy Code Malachy who you know he looked like a young neil young and he had this brilliant fast boat and so we rocketed up this lake and he really has the the monopoly on boats on the lake and Croats time he went up far slower than I did and then you get the foot of desolation peak itself and you spend the rest ed as so you're on your second day by this point zigzagging your way and foot slogging back and forth on these happen turn paths all the way up the mountain and and then you get your campsite and maybe pitch a tent and you put all your stuff in your back and you put it far away from your tent and in my case I carried on up over a false summit to the actual talk and it was there that I met the current fire lookout a man could jim heavily and it was amazing to me him because as you say I was imagining odeal my own up there but no there's Jim and he's I think he just missed Vietnam. He was in the hundred and first the storied hundred first Airborne Division and so I'm up there with Jim and he immediately offers me coffee and we're in this amazing glass paneled space of his fire lookout and it was such chip privilege to be there and talk to this man but then you went all that way and what a journey to get solitude and then you find Jim up there and I would imagine Jim Spin and stuck up there with nobody to talk to. You've ventured all the way there to have solitude and you're just like somebody to talk to for this guy. If he's interesting that would be maybe wonderful folk but if he's not interesting. Wouldn't it be a huge disappointment for you in your agenda to get away from it all absolutely in a way I think every book that I've written it. Has this crux point where things are either going to go really well or they're gonna go really badly and I knew I would get up to the top of desolation and I've may be meet this one individual and either he would be incredibly welcoming and he would say come on in and have a look. You know this outpost or he would say no. You can't come in. I don't WanNa talk to you. Go Back Down County attend. There's nothing for you all because you don't make an AIRBNB I mean you're you're. You're just not gonNA say hi and he'd go. Where'd you come from? Get outta here or come on in have a cup of coffee exactly 'cause the fire lookout is still in use. Jim is very much a working watchmen and also he relays a lot of radio signals in the area so he is an important guy in the area. Did he looks welcoming yeah. He left me alone. I left him alone being on a mountain. You know all you you have to do is walk twenty meters and a direction. You are entirely alone in that savage fortress of the North Cascades has such a beautiful way to put it so when you're up there and you have a magic moment. You've got your solitude. You've got your vast view in the sun's going down. What was the moment it was just bliss really it? It was happiness I was exhausted having hike tool that way and then to be in that particular building little shed the glass shed this pagoda owed style outpost with this excellent man Jim we had coffee and we watched the mountains turn from pink to blood red to the million and through all the pope was you can imagine and then night came on and we were talking and I went back down to my tent and halfway through the night I was woken up by a Ba- yeah I mean you can't get any better than that. I don't think that's the sort of thing I love. I just love this notion. That travel can be transformative. It must be transformative love to go to a place like that that is so pristine so alone and then when you come back home you are different. Let's your take on. What's the value of this and and why is that important today? There's a line of William Blake which is that the I changed changes. All you view the world through different eyes. If only you would go and see and I think if you go and you truly see you will try and your future life to leave less traced raced to do least harm I think if a few more kind of policymakers people with clout which go to these places and actually see their beauty see that fragility they would be changed on a smaller level. I think we as good citizens of earth need to do this as well and think about the damage that maybe we're doing living and maybe just try and take things in and be good conservatives and citizens Dan Richard. Your book is called outpost a journey to the wild eld ends of the earth. Happy Travels Dan and thanks again for joining US Great Pleasure Thank you uh Uh Mickey lomax recommends more fun fun places to explore in the US national parks in just a bit but first Terry Tempest Williams tells us paying attention to nature is helping her cope with recent political disappointments. She tells us what the forces of erosion teaching her next on travel with Rick Steves Terry tempest tempest Williams has been noticing how the forces of erosion defined the landscapes of the Utah Desert near her home outside the lab in a different way she suggests erosion also seems to be at work in American society in in recent setbacks to environmental protections her latest book features essays and the thoughts for these times. It's called erosion essays of undoing Terry. Welcome back to travel with Rick Steves Hi ric. It's always a pleasure shirt travel with you on radio so terry you spend a good part of your year in Boston at the Harvard Divinity School as writer in residence and teaching there and the rest of the time. Can you right from your home base in Utah and you wake up in the morning surrounded by the desert. Why did you choose to live in the desert? It's a humbling privilege. Everything is changing all the time minute by minute. I love to rise with the sunrise on Sunday. It was at five fifty. Am I am so I went outside to say my prayers to just watch the sun. Come up in this one particular canyon by Adobe Mesa just outside our place and the sunrise didn't come until six twenty two and I just love knowing those details I love being able to watch the Ark of the sun that solstice it will be in that crease of Canyon whereas in the Winter Solstice it will becoming upright directly in one of the peaks of technique of its or in the La Salle's styles so to be able to see the full arc of a year just by where the position of the sun is it just feels like a great pleasure and privilege. It's so interesting. Can you say that because I live on a little bluff in town I look out across the puget sound and the sun sets on a different peak right through the season you know on the Olympic Mountain's and then right now. It's you know it's an a certain spot and I always imagined that native Americans who lived here two hundred years ago stand in the same bluff and they would be so much closer the nature to me that this would be the rhythm of their whole life and remind myself. It's so easy to ignore nature the way we live and it's such a beautiful thing in your travels in your daily life. Get up and say your prayers as the sun is rising right where you know it's GonNa rise and it's just a reminder that we're surrounded by nature but we can choose to be tuned and into it or not get another moment about being in nature where where you're connected and you realize that's beautiful ethic for your life. I remember ver- in March we were driving down the river road from Castle Valley where we live to Moab. It's about a half hour drive. Maybe forty five minutes depends and and we were just in this cloudburst you couldn't even see and we decided to just pull over and within seconds between the the time we left our home in the time we arrived in Moab. We counted fifty three waterfalls and pour offs. It was like the first day of creation and suddenly you know the Colorado River was running red. I mean people were just stopping taking pictures laughing. We were all drenched and you just think this is what matters and this is. What cleans our souls it was so thrilling and you just think I can't imagine living anywhere else and you know you're watching the world erode owed before you and I thought right the world may be eroding before us every day in the news but this is the kind of erosion that creates beauty and humility where you realize you know we're just one species among many and flushed with gratitude or the Grand Canyon is a good example sample of of the beauty of erosion isn't it? I mean the stratego fee of time deep time like whether it away I remember the first time I saw the Grand Canyon my husband blindfolded me and he walked me out to the rim and then took off my blindfold and I just gasped and I said why didn't someone tell let me about this and he goes Terri. I think people are aware of the Grand Canyon what struck me was not what remains but what had been weathered in Rhode routed away. That's what moved me was all that negative space thinking you know wind water time deep time carried through the Colorado River for so we can talk about climate change later but right now when we're talking about erosion that's a natural process that desert is kind of the triumph of erosion isn't it. It's it's a beautiful way of putting a wreck you know weathering is is the widdling away of stone in erosion is the process by which it gets carried away which which I think is really interesting then it's easy to get carried away in the desert. you're forced to stand in the center of extremes extreme drought route extreme flood fire wind. It's not an easy place to live but it's an intentional place to being. It's humbling is meant because it reminds you how Small Ellen insignificant we are in the big natural scheme of things that's right and without water you don't exist and we've seen that we've seen it on the land with the vegetation with the animals the birds in particular. Also you know we have not planned there have been times where Brooklyn I thought let's just go out and go for a walk. Can we haven't taken enough water. You have to be really conscious living in the desert or else your own peril. The desert seems like such a Arad Arad means lifeless lifeless but there's more life hiding in the desert than we realize in a lot of it is pent-up and ready to spring isn't the you know the funniest thing happened. We are now six hundred percent above above average precipitation last year drought in it's been an ongoing drought this year. It's just the heavens poured forth and if you can believe this us a couple of nights ago we heard frogs we have not heard frogs in twenty years and it was just so moving because somewhere in the royal those eggs have have held and but can I just listen to this choir a frog and just it was so beautiful this joy hiding out in in the desert can we tempest Williams was recently given a lifetime achievement award by the Los Angeles Times for her work that focuses on the American West her book doc erosion essays at the undoing will be released a few days. She's also written the hour of land personal topography of America's national parks. Thanks take us on a little walk from Your House that you enjoy and be our tour guide for a minute as you walk through the desert behind the home of Terry Tempest Williams. There's a canyon that I will not name nerve. I say where it is but it's one that we love we call it the circle trail you walk late in the afternoon mm-hmm afternoon light reflective light and canyon walls rise upward like praying hands you see Samak berries red knowing that they can be gathered and crushed and boiled and create a beautiful pudding with white cornmeal you also see ants taking those red berries pushing them up hill and you think how can they have that kind of stamina and determination you see juniper trees hundreds of years old shaped by the wind end with skirts of juniper berries the color of the clouds of an afternoon thunderstorm you keep walking and you see veins of gypsum white in bedded in the Red Sandstone You keep walking and you get to a particular pass on the trail and you can see for miles you swear that you can see the curvature of the earth and it's the stillness. It's the quiet and it's is the perspective that one is given with a walk like that so we all get a chance not to walk on your favorite secret valley but to walk into desert or walk talking to Erin vast landscape and feel that solitude and feel that silence as a travel writer give us just a practical travel tip for appreciating the desert. I think it's just being still and paying attention. I know that I'm in a good place when I can hear the wingbeats of Ravens flying over me or can feel the wind or watch clouds Passover and feel the shadow although of those clouds to me. The joy of being in the desert is is really just be not doing. I always take journal a small notebook with a pencil because something you know extraordinary might happen or there's a description that I don't want to forget but mainly I just love you've observing listening favoring the senses and just being quiet you write that the desert has you thinking about Alf now. What do you mean by that? You know to be in one of the canyons slot canyons or walking through a wash where there's cottonwoods woods on either side. You know there als I feel there is you know and then suddenly turn in you actually see those yellow is that could burn grasses with their stare great horned owls screech owls flam related owls burrowing owls. They're all around but it's always a gift when you see one and it always gives me pause you know also have night vision and more and more I think we're being called upon on to adopt night vision not be frightened by darkness and what may be ahead but to develop that so that we can stand in the shadows and not be afraid but to also make a commitment not to look away our guest on travel with Rick Steves is Terry Tempest emphised Williams Terry's a well known environmental activist in Your Home State of Utah. She's also been serving as writer in residence at the Harvard Divinity School and you'll see your byline articles close The New York Times she explores how to respond to recent anti environmental governmental policies in her latest collection of essays. It's called erosion. Her website is Coyote clan dot com Terry. We've been talking about the desert and the hidden wonders of the desert and the richness of the desert. Your new book arose in essays of undoing is a lot of thoughts inspired by your love of nature end your time in the desert. What's the connection with erosion? Listen and your concerns about our environment and how it applies to what's going on today with our society in regards to how we take care of our environment went. We'll just as we see erosion in in the narrative of the Grand Canyon or in a place like Castle Valley or Arches Canyon lands. I think we're seeing erosion of the different sort in our own democracy an erosion of decency and erosion of a belief in science and erosion of our collective empathy Kathy and to me it seemed a worthy metaphor to stay with. It could be said that this is a dark book. I don't see it that way because I think living in times of drought you know that there's going to be another cycle or you. Throw your tap root deeper. Just as you see the plants do or you know that there are seeds that are dormant but when the rains come when you smell that rain Petra core is the same for our spirit so I think it's a book about endurance. It's a book about patience and persistence. It's ultimately I think a book about love loving the open space of Democracy Z. really being committed to stepping to the side and letting native people lead. That's what's happening in the State of Utah and I am so humbled and honored and moved by the leadership of the dinner of the Navajo. The Hopi of Zuni of the mountain newt an aura mute cute. We have a lot to learn from them. I think that's what's happening. In the State of Utah You know the tribes are speaking and it makes those married and committed to the status quo very uncomfortable. Erosion is uncomfortable. It can be dangerous but it's what creates bare boned beauty now terry. I read in your book that you noticed president trump had a portrait of Andrew Jackson moved into the Oval Office. That sounds like a pretty strong statement. What does does that say to you well? He was known as Indian Keller. If you read history Andrew Jackson has a very dark shadowed history of Indian Indian removal the trail of tears it goes on and on and he you know to me that was the first thing I noticed is that you know each president can hand decorate their offices they want and after the Golden Curtains we saw the portrait of of Andrew Jackson I can tell you my native fans took that as a as an affront don't do to your knowledge has president trump ever visited bears ears or any of these places threatened never he saw it as a real estate deal he said when I here a place with a million acres perk up so if you visited this if you visited he might even harden his views and not changes views I would think if he could get them there and take come on a hike as will the great naturalist took Theodore Roosevelt on a hike right just your and then Roosevelt really saw the light about the preciousness and the eternal beauty of our natural spaces. I think we all fantasize of being able to take Donald Trump on a walk doc. I'm not talking about a cliff. I'm talking about a beautiful walk in one of the cultures there's enough optimism in me that maybe with a man under percents assault maybe he he would hear something. I know that some of the tribal elders would love nothing more than to have him. Come speak to them and and the thing that moves me so deeply about an organization like Utah. DNA became a where you have elders like Willie. Gray is who's now a county commissioner or Jonah Yellow. Men who is spiritual adviser forbears ears coalition or Mary Bonelli or Evanger Gray. You know they all saying bears years is about healing and we're not just protecting displaced for us but for all people what our public land. What are the big issues here? Is it like it shouldn't be public it should be we're free Americans. We should be able to do with it what we want or what the what is it every American citizen his land rich we have six hundred and forty million acres that belong to all of us and I think most Americans don't realize that these are public lands. Is there multiple use lands. There are forest our national parks refuges monuments is the open space of democracy and right now our public lands are federal ends are under threat because of oil and gas leasing. I just saw that in the fiscal year of twenty eighteen eighteen the United States government from oil and gas lease sales made one point one billion dollars and I think what people don't realize in these oil and gas lease sales sales we have oil companies executives that are bidding on these lands that belonged to all of us for as little as a dollar fifty an baker and that's what I think people don't realize and right now with this particular administration. It's open for business and Utah is at the brunt of it so you wrote broken down worn down cracked and dry and that can actually be good. That's a message of hope develop that that just a little bit because I know erosion can be a hopeful thing when we look at where our society is today. Water Breaks Down Stone. If you think about that if if people truly engaged in the democratic process beginning voting we can wear down stone on and that is powerful to me you know our erosion as a country could also be our capacity to evolve evolve so we are eroding evolving at once are doing is are becoming. It's holding these the full range of our emotions at once again at that night vision choosing not to look away from what is difficult and this isn't about belief. This is about engagement and I think ultimately this collection of essays is how do we engage in our communities with empathy the capacity to listen not judge I can tell you the name like tempest. It's hard for me not to get angry at times but I know they have their point of view. I want to know what that point of view is. The tribes keep telling US Joni yellow men. The Spiritual Advisor of bears ears. Keep saying bears ears is about healing. This is what we need in our country is to heal and we can only heal if we can and face each other and ask the difficult questions and not walk away and we need those tap roots that dig deeper when the soil is dry we need those is of owls and and we need to appreciate that erosion can be evolution and when the downpours com to just stop and say look at this we do it alone and we do it together other and that's also what the desert teaches me. You don't survive in the desert alone. Even though it's the solitude I seek you survive in the desert through community eighty and we will survive this democracy in the same way. I think you just summed up your calling in life both as a travel writer based in the deserts of Utah and as writer later in residence at the Harvard Divinity School Terry Tempest Williams thanks again for joining us. It's always great and inspiring to talk to you and congratulations on your book erosion as as of undoing thank you so much rick for the way you guide all of us the author of a guidebook to all. US National Parks takes your calls next at eight seven seven seven three three three seven four to five as we get inspired to get out into the American wilderness. It's travel with Rick Steves. Our national parks famously been called America's best idea. That's because they're absolutely democratic can reflect our nation at its best becky Lomax lives and breathes national parks. She grew up the daughter of a National Park Ranger in Washington state hiking on Mount Rainier and backpacking through the Olympics in college inch Becky worked summers at Glacier National Park where she later returned as backpacking guide her latest book is the Moon Guidebook. USA National Parks it has detailed tip son accommodations activities highlights of the fifty nine national parks around the United States ranging from highly alkaline Hawaii to the Virgin Islands the Great Smoky Mountains to Death Valley Becky Lomax. It's great to have you here in kill you know reading your book. It sounds like you nearly live in campgrounds. Tell us tell us about how you researched and wrote this book because it is vast I mean what is it is seven hundred pages and it never gets old for you know aw in fact returning to some of the same parks over and over never gets old either but it it was a huge project to do and part of it is a lifetime of visiting parks for me any and also we relied on other moon writers who are experts in their local parks so we took some of their material and adapted for the books now it just sounds like you get a lot of joy from it and it has that exuberance in the inter- The book you wrote these fifty nine parks are masterpieces astor pieces spread around the United States the artistry of Nature Paints Their Rain forced with Mossy Green there lakes vivid blue and their Kenyans shifting oranges ages and reds their beauty is in the wilderness. These are the mountains that let nature wash through us that offer US renewal of the human spirit talk a little bit what about before we get into specific travel tips about the parks just the importance of these natural experiences in our lives when we're getting so urban so uptight and life is speeding up in speeding wire these perks worth the trouble they're so worth it because they take us out of that crazy electronic running existence for in right now where we're always checking our emails and our text and stuff and what's beautiful and so many parks is there is no cell service. Is there Wifi. There isn't in some of them were hooking up to base camp on Mount Rainier is their WIFI yeah so Luton get away from it and you can experience things like silence where you're not hearing you know honking horns traffic and you can see the night sky hi where you're looking at stars and so many people don't even see the stars anymore in cities that issued if that is something we actually forget about outed even people I mean I consider myself somebody who loves nature but I can't remember when I saw stars reflecting in a river at Matt and then I was in a Beautiful Park in Idaho and I saw stars reflecting in the river and I thought I gotta get out a little more. I yeah it's gorgeous so let's just travel a little bit share some of the experiences I mean I'm just going to throw the match hiking on a beach one of my craziest experiences dances you'll appreciate this as being a Washingtonian was years ago back packing the entire stretch of the Ho- Ok beach area because because I can can think of the whole river valley in the rainforest there yet but the whole beach there's rugged Anthony Mile section along each and you walk some sand beach it and then you climb up over these heads big rocky Mossy fern covered heads that are full of slippery mud and you probably earned a the the solitude little bit by walking from Your Car Park. Oh Yeah if you're going to get out of your car and walk one hundred yards and complain about the crowds. You're not trying hard enough. No there's plenty of places to find solitude. Which Park was this motion Olympic National Olympic national part of Olympic and that would be where the whole it's called the whole we've always called it the whole river stripped and it's it's a really long backpacking stretch in there? Okay now talk about wildlife watching I mean where does wildlife intersect with the popular parks. Oh it's it's huge you know everyone of yellowstone as one of the best for wildlife watching because it's got bison and wolves and pronghorns and bighorns and goes you you name it. It's got it all but get this. I went this spring to Theodore Roosevelt Park in North Dakota of all places and was blown away at the wildlife watching her well there was bison walking right through our campsite for one eagles flying overhead the have these silly prairie dog towns where the prairie dogs are running around there so social and they are funny and we're watching them and here come a pair have coyotes in hunting the prairie dogs and then a little bit down the road were stopping and looking at some other stuff and here's the horses wild wild horses running through the park. It was just fantastic. See you wouldn't think about that. Everybody goes to Yosemite in so indices you know the famous parks but there's so many more than can you talk about this travel with Rick Steves were talking with Becky Lomax and she's our guide for the US National Parks Right now but he's written books on Yellowstone Grand Dan Teton Glacier National Park her latest comprehensive Moon USA National Parks Guidebook with more than seven hundred pages of information and maps for getting around and exploring each commericals fifty nine national parks we have links to the guidebook and to Becky's website with this week show at Rick Steves dot com slash radio becky when you're thinking thing about the best of the parks because it's a little overwhelming for a lot of Americans you know we wanna see the national parks well. There are so many depends a lot about what your appetite fight is for natural adventure if you want a serious hike. Let's say you're in good shape you ready for some exertion. What would be a very rewarding the long day hike where you've got to be aggressive? I would say something like the highline trail in glacier national park described that you start up right at the continental divide at Logan Pass and walk seven point six miles north right under these peaks the whole way and and then you're looking down these swooping scooped out Glacial Valley. Are you on a ridge. You're on the side of a hill in some cases. You're on a cliff where the trails only about three feet wise cable. There is a little cable. Thank those cables you wrote in your book about the Half Dome Home at Yosemite that sounded like it would push the limit for a lot of it. What would you have have a guide to do that or could you do on your own? You can do it on your own. You do have to get a permit to do it. You can't just go up Willy Nilly do it. I mean it takes because leaving you all day long as a twelve hour hike yeah and it takes a lot of stamina and the top of it is it's tough because you are climbing up this really called rock yeah and it's kind of got this cable you can hang on but that's not gonNa pull you up the hill. I'll keep you from your you. GotTa get yourself now. One that really seems to be very rewarding without the ten hours of sweating to earn it in in any sort of scariness is angels landing. Oh it's amazing. It's an Zion. When you actually start your climbing? You're going up this winding built up rock staircase and switch backs Walter's wiggles Walters wiggly yes so you go Walter's wiggles and then you eventually get to a saddle at the summit which is literally it drops off both sides and then you are climbing. This knife Ridge from there to the tonight bridge really is that in their thing yeah God. There's a cable or a little a few places to hang onto witnesses. Yeah I wouldn't recommend recommend taking tiny kids up there no but that's that's a highlight of Zion if you're going to examine and and that would be something that you know if you reasonably fit you could do to cable and it's definitely the shorter than Hannah what about natural thrills for visitors with disabilities or grandparents and so on there are a lot of trails also that are designed for people that need special access ability to things boardwalks in particular looks yeah and a lot of parks have them one of them is has congress national park in it's on the East Coast Okay and it's swamp and it's got this long boardwalk that works all the way through the swamp because you can't go you know you close to the swamp nature you go right into it. Are there information panels where you can nature sure walk. Yes yeah unlike interpretive panels. I think the whole river has something like that to go up into. The rain forced if Ben in Ray Hall of Mosses trail up there has it yeah so there's a lot of accessibility. There's also I get a sense in the park system of passion for junior rangers young young visitors. Yes most parks have what's called a junior ranger program uh-huh and especially designed for kids you stop at the nearest visitor center and pick up a booklet or or it's a newspaper in some parks and it has all kinds of kid activities in it that are designed for that specific park so the kid does it fills it all out and and then later in your adventures you go back to the ranger station. The ranger swear you in as a junior ranger you have to love it and then eh get a badge or patch this travel with Rick Steves. We're talking with the key Lomax who you can tell loves her work her book. USA National Parks Complete Guide to all fifty nine parks and Becky when we're talking about junior rangers you wrote about explorer backpacks from the visitor's center so the kids can pick up these backpacks give with them loan them the tools to yes yeah and there are actually designed for families with kids to go out and do adventures in the help lead them through like sometimes on on trails and they have to go look and find certain things some of the backpacks we'll have you know little microscope type thing he's so he can look really close at items items and identify those and teach kids how to observe smartly but leave only footprints that which is really important to lay now a little older kids might WanNa have some late adrenaline sports and he talked about sand boarding down the majestic dunes at Great Sand Dunes National Park. I'd I'd love to do a Flat Yeah Hands Boarding Surfing on sand snowboarding on snowboarding yeah. That's about the best equivalent for it. Let's see you got teenage. Kids and you're going to the park. What what are some of those kinds of activities that would be appropriate that come to mind in general? There's a lot of parks especially in the West have horseback rides enough for teenagers. That's perfect get on a horse and head off when I was checking out a teeny bopper must have been twelve years old or something I was in the next country north in candidate did it back and Jasper and I'll never forget. It was probably the greatest day of my childhood. When my parents spent the money it was pretty expensive for a spec then to rent don't go on a horse a horse through the Jasper National Park and we saw the most wonderful wildlife and nature in action from the top of of course it was it was magical kid our guest on travel with Rick Steves is Becky Lomax the author of the Moon Guidebook to USA national parks her website? It is Becky Lomax Dot Com our number eight seven seven three three three seven four to five times calling in from Lake Monte in Georgia. Hi N hi- We are National Park Geeks our preretirement career was to be National Park Rangers and we've bled well well overpass retirement age and we still work as seasonal at Acadia national park and agree with your guest I never we get tired of Acadia and I've been there nineteen seasons. it's just my place and it's a wonderful place for all kinds of people carriage roads for accessibility disability and just great trails lot talk a little bit about this smoking as this seasonal rangers this a volunteer thing or a retired. I heard people are doing it or you can do it any different park which the deal you can do it at any age. We're paid staff. Although I'm laissez volunteers that work at the park there the true saints but we do get paid for our Labor Green and gray that's paid staff Khaki Pants and the shirt brown pants and shirts those are the volunteers ears but lots of young people trying to get their foot in the door although it's very difficult to transition from seasonal permanent because of budget cuts lots and that sort of thing but we're old anyway so you know for us to work five months in the summer funds are winter travel and where do you stay at what how do you do room and board. When you're working this way I park Acadia does have some housing and so we've been fortunate enough to be able to get a one bedroom apartment? It's not deluxe lot of the volunteers come with their big. RV's and there's a spot you know park them and it's just a great arrangement but lots of shared housing in a beautiful backyard. Yeah backyard is not beautiful. It's a short walk to be right. Hey well that sounds like some great wait for people especially if they've got their retired and still active in nature Yup which park did you enjoy bessie worked at several over the years. I Katie is is my park. Okay not for everybody. I mean Scott has different preferences but he tags along with me to Acadia okay well. That sounds sounds like you guys have a fun dynamic duo of part time apart grain during thanks for your call in all right thank you bye-bye Trish is on the line from Madison in Wisconsin. Hey tricia. Are you guys. We're doing great becky's giving me all excited about going to national parks. What are your thoughts about? National Parks like your previous caller my husband and all my children are big national park lovers. We've been to most of the national parks but I had a really special experience last June. I am sixty five years old. I've had both my knees replaced two two weeks before we left on this particular trip I had my shoulder replace and I m stroke survivor. I had a picture taken if myself I believe it was in nineteen seventy three and it was on the top of moral rock declared national park and I would be determined. I told my husband I need that picture taken again of forty six years later and he looked at me like I was crazy but we set off and and it took me quite a while. It's very strenuous hike up to the top of rock. Everyone was encouraging me. Along the way I just was pushing myself to the point where I could hardly breathe I was bound and determined and I made it up to the summit and had my picture taken at the exact spot that I had my picture taken forty six years ago. Oh that is so awesome unto proud of you. That's an amazing feeling and everybody around me was cheering. It was really special TRICIA. That's an inspirational story if we get your photograph can we put it on our web all right. We'll have that in the notes for this week. Show at Rick Steves dot com slash radio TRICIA. You're an inspiration and becky. Can you describe grab Moro Rock for us. What Park is that and what would it be like for the rest of us who aren't going up there with such a triumphal approach with new knees new shoulder serving a stroke that it is insecure parked there kind of joined us one park now okay it is strenuous hike and it's not one that you just kind kind of straight? You know anybody would enjoy going to do so. It's got some elevation to it. It'd be in shape or very motivated like Tricia exactly actly Trish. I hope you get up there again. someday okay. You Bet thanks for your call. That is so cool. That's a great story. Clearly parks connect us with nature and they give us those personal moments in so many different ways after talking with Trish. I'm just thinking so many people are listening and so many people can be inspired by embracing our park system which is just down the road from so many of us. Let's say you who wrote the book our National Parks in the United States could take a big city person a person who never hop from stone disown across a stream someone who'd never bliss aided down Bank of Shale will somebody who'd never felt that King of the mountain thrill atop his or her own just concord peak. What National Park experience would you give that person? I think I would want to take that person to the Grand Canyon because you get to the edge of that Canyon and everybody's seen pictures but so you get there in person and it's huge and then you hike down in it and it is a whole different world and you get to touch. It's those rocks five thousand a year. Whatever billion years the rocks I mean piled up and you get to touch all those different layers ears and then finally get down to the river and has just impressive and then you call your helicopter and it takes you know then you climb climb up? Don't you have to climb back in the city of nature and you feel pretty good about yourself when you've done that and then we remind yourself that yes national national parks America's best idea becky Lomax thanks for writing. USA National Parks and best wishes with your future research. Thank you travel with Rick Steves Dad Rick Steves Europe and EPI- Washington by Tim Captain Isaac Kaplan Wilder and Casimiro Hall. Thanks to our colleagues Asia Kate you we are in Salt Lake City for studio this week thanks to the BBC and Ludden further help this week you can listen again whenever you like and linked to our guests in the website website notes for each week show. It's Rick Steves dot com slash radio. We'll see you next week with more travel with Rick Steves Rick Steves teaches beaches smart European travel at Rick Steves Dot Com. You'll find an

Rick Steves congress national park Becky Lomax US writer Tom Terry Tempest Williams Utah Becky USA National Parks Grand Canyon Tempest Williams desolation peak Williams Terry Harvard Divinity School America Jim Spin Colorado River North Dakota National Park Jack Kerouac
Deliberation

Direct Appeal

1:03:51 hr | 1 year ago

Deliberation

"In the last several years. Manal just have really begun to focus on the topic of women in crime. This interest has inspired amy to create a podcast devoted entirely to true stories about women and Crime twice a month. We will discuss individual stories of women who have been victims of crime or perpetrators. Sometimes these two are one and the same will also choose cases in which women have been falsely accused exonerated or women. Who's working the criminal? Justice system has brought them notoriety. Best Intruder criminologist routes. We will tell you the full stories of these women but we will also explain the cause of the events that happen whether the criminal justice system got it right off no matter what this podcast will focus on women in crime all of the time so stay tuned women and Crime is coming soon. If you're just tuning in we encourage you to go back and listen from episode one. This podcast may contain content. That is graphic and disturbing nature listener discretion is advised previously on the season of direct appeal on April twenty. Third Two thousand seven. I was convicted of murder and dismemberment of my husband. Melanie thinks she can six every back eventually. Going to extricate myself from this relationship are men. I in having an extramarital affair. He pushed me up against the bathroom door and stuff. The dryer sheets my mouth. I got to get the hell out of there. I was pissed through all of this and you go down to Atlantic City on his car. Someplace downtown seedy motel good luck minding and before she left she looked at me. She said he's really not much trumpcare. Car Clean that apartment. That apartment had normal household dirt. My mother called me and said that police had been lied to me but my husband passed away in Virginia naive. I'm thinking if I didn't do anything like what's the harm in talking and telling them on having an affair nobody's asking a prosecutor wants to prosecute you to the degree the law. They're going to push it because you're guilty. Until you're proven Edna says you will be so get your head. Right at prosecutor is fearing absolutely first victims part human saw dot com. We got this. Dna now the dog hair that was found in the bags with his body. Where was this Bonnie packaged money out on the street? And that's how you get shot here. An ear is unlikely that her pistol was used in this crime. But it's not impossible if this were allowed to get up there and say they'll talk to me about this. I wanted to be the judge someone else nick. Those same bag committed most could have that. Spanish is old data. Show that the bags didn't match factors missing footed how the hell was perhaps with more important than what is what she didn't hear. Our tools shot a mountain a reasonable doubt. How can anyone be conducted with that amount of doubt stunning? That's dangerous not get the balance. Nobody's entitled to a perfect trial. You're entitled to a fair trial will tell you over and over. The burden of proof is unsafe. However if you don't tell your story the jury thinks you don't have a store. How'd he told a story being that? There was huge prosecutorial misconduct Layton and deliberate ultimately. I would find out that one of my attorneys was under federal investigation. That's win our depends went on four experts dried up and all of the sudden testify. I expected the worst him what I was. Just one step shy. They give the verdict girl eligible at the age of one hundred one nine. Remember saying my kids my kids and I don't really remember much after that. This changes you in a way. I don't know that aspect for us. Okay we have a lot to cover on this last episode of direct appeal. So we'RE GOING TO ADDRESS AUDIENCE. Tips your alternative theories and amy and I will give you our final conclusions about the case but I I'd like to address an audience issue. That's come up in the course of this podcast. We have read reviews that are podcast was biased and that we should have contacted bill sisters and or other family and friends and other people to speak to you on Bill Maguire's behalf. I personally understand this criticism about contacting his sisters and I wanted to just explain a little bit more about why I thought it was the wrong move. I initially wasn't sure based on my conversation. With my limited conversation with the prosecutor they would be very welcome to US contacting them so that was the first signal. I got that this wouldn't be a great idea and when I read through the transcript and other materials. I realized that I would contact his sisters. If there was some information that I thought really needs to clarify information that kind of went to Melanie's guilt or innocence information. I thought they had about the crime that especially was never made clear in the truth. Was that in Nancy did not testify in trial and I think she lived far away and didn't really have any information and the information that I saw cindy head testify to was sort of limited to this letter That was written after the fact and it didn't seem that she had much information as well about the crime itself and Melanie's guilt now. We know that Apple Sisters afterwards think Melania's guilty and maybe rightly so but it seemed to me that the invasion to their lives had to be well justified so I decided not to I thought about it you know I thought about it again. I reviewed the materials as these questions came in again and look in the end. Maybe it was the wrong move and I certainly can take their criticism but my gut really told me and still tells me that contacting them wasn't exactly in the best interest for them and for the investigative Aspect of this podcast. I also believe that if they wanted to talk. I'm pretty sure they're well aware of this. Podcast I think maybe they would have contacted. So maybe their lack of contact shows that maybe they really didn't want to be involved in this. I mean yeah. I can't speak for them and again if if either either they'll sisters or anyone else would like to speak with us. We are so open to talking either off the record or on the record and I don't again I think it's a legitimate criticism and you know. Sometimes this is our first endeavor and I was just going with my kind of gut feeling so that being said though we also wanted to provide the audience with a finalist people. We contacted to speak to in terms of the case against Melanie or on behalf. Bill McGuire so we initially contacted a lot more people and we wanted to speak more people because we had questions that we really thought were important to Melanie's guilt or innocence. But we couldn't force people to participate and certainly we respect their decisions. Not to so here is a list. I think I promise this in the beginning and I just want to provide you with the list of people who either declined to participate or did not respond to us at all. So that would be all three prosecutors in the trial against Melanie. Mcguire five main police investigators. Who HELPED THE PROSECUTION? Twelve jurors the medical examiner who provided a brief statement but who declined to be interviewed. The main forensic scientist on this case. Mr Lesniak bills good friend John Rice and his good friend and business partner J Tanda. We believe they would have had information that would have been relevant to the crime and could have also spoke about bill in his character so in total. That's won't that is a total of twenty two people and I think that obviously would have balanced the podcast a bit more but we couldn't again force people to participate. We also note that we did not receive calls back for Melanie's attorneys Joe Teke Pino or Stephen Toronto on her side. Sorry that's twenty four people. That is twenty. Four JOE and Steve. I wasn't counting towards so twenty. Two people who could have spoken on behalf of the State's case on behalf of bill who declined to participate so some of the audience members had questions about the material. We used in this podcast so just wanted to let you know that I use the trial transcript often have both electrically and boxes and piles of papers at home police reports evidence in the trial media coverage. I looked at all the legal briefs that would submit it and we have the interviews so we did use a lot of materials to support the podcast even when we did though there were some instances when the transcripts or these documents or the interviews did not provide the full answers and so in those cases. I chose not to speculate about things. A correction that is very important and we'll seemingly important leader on the trip. Melanie says she took to Delaware for furniture. Shopping was actually on Tuesday. May Fourth and not Sunday may second which we reported in a previous episode and this is the second would be a time where her whereabouts could be accounted so again trip to Delaware she says was on Tuesday may fourth and not Sunday May Second. We apologize for the mistake last issue and this is a complicated one four correction and explanation and this relates to an issue that so many people wrote in about in this. B. Cell Tower information for the phones. There was a question. Will I actually had a question about how we were so sure? The Prosecution had obtained cell tower records for Bill. But not for Melanie I ha. I couldn't find it per se in the transcripts and it was described notes everywhere but I went back to the transcripts on this one and I went back to Let's see I think it was detective or officer mccutcheon. And he spoke about these calls. He he did describe the phone calls and what they got but he never describes any cell phone tower information so I also went to Tom. Terry's Information Tom Terry was bills boss and he came in. He testified a read his testimony as well in Patty asked him about. Bill's work phone bills. Work phone was Nextel and sew. Patty asked Tom Terry if he had contacted Nextel. The call that was made from bills phone at five forty one PM on April thirtieth and Tom Terry said he had so. Patty asked him if he had gotten the cell site information from the next people and he said yes. And then what happens? Is Joe Tech Aquino steps in an objects and Joe and Patty and the judge go to a sidebar and I was reading to the transcript and what happened was that the judge says that Tom Terry cannot testify about what the next tell people told him about the cell site location because that would be hearsay. He said for that. You need the documents bringing the next ones. If you'RE GONNA try to show the world bring in the person at xl who said it. I think so. The judge won't documents he said if you're going to document the actual location you're going to need more than that and actually patio set at that. Sidebar. That they were waiting on that information but it was delayed but she would get those documents. I couldn't find any later time in the transcripts during the trial that she ever submitted the documentation. So Tom Terry and I'm sorry end. Joe Tackle penal never put in for any sort of that. Nope nothing on that phone call went to the Rice's house. If you remember his friends yellen in Sura I remember. That's the call that did Melanie make it or was bill alive at right. So there's some question over it and certainly the cell site information would have been helpful but again. Tom Terry was not allowed to testify about that. And whatever happened to that information? We really don't know at all so that's the first call. Okay but let's separate that because that was bills Nextel and that was not connected to Melanie's phone so the second issue relates to the Cell Towers Between their shared phone so there was a second phone call. If you recall early on May second a phone call was received from Bill's personal cellphone the one he shared with Melania on the second and the phone call was made to their home apartment. Woodbridge apartment and that was made at approximately one ten. Am So was there any cell site available any info available on this. And that's a separate question. I couldn't find anything. Anyone spoke to the cell tower information on this. And so I asked Melanie about it again. Melanie says and this is her Clear recollection. She says that she is positive that her team told her. So Joe and Steve told her that the prosecution identified that phone call as coming from or originating from Atlantic city which was where she was at the time but she's positive that her team said to her this recollection patty or the prosecution has sell tight cell site information. And they're going to say that you made that phone or that. That phone call came from Atlantic City. At the time you were there however I could never find any information to substantiate this so you can look at this one of two ways actually. So here's what you can look at it as that. Melanie's mistaken and that Patty never said this. Nobody ever said anything about the second. You know the the shared phone line and that. There's nothing ominous going on here. It was just a mistake or you could look at it if you believe that. Melanie's recollection is correct. That there was information that was you know. Kind of threatened or not thrown out of evidentiary value. Or you know it was a bluff kind of ours this information that we're gonNA show this and You know it's GonNa look bad for your client leader. So that is the story on it. There is no way to substantiate this unless patty if you WANNA call us. Yeah Joe Steve IF YOU WANNA call us that would be wonderful. Could we do a freedom of Information Act to get that information? I thought so and I think there are a couple of things we could although I submitted a freedom of information. Act about phone records and Some Photograph Prosecutions Office To the court system and I am I received back. That information is not available. Like a blanket statement granted. I'm sure there's a way that we could probably get this so just to clarify again on. That information seem that there was going to be cell site information for the next cell phone. The judge wouldn't allow it never documentation to support that later whether or not there was any cell tower avail Information available for bills phone on the shared account with Melanie. We have no idea hopefully that clarifies some listeners. And for you amy. Yes thank you Meghan. Now I think we want to get to Listener comments and tips first thing. A few listeners commented that many of Melanie's actions were consistent with Women in abusive relationships although some commented that her actions were also consistent with a sociopaths actions. Little clarification here. Socio pathology or psychopathy which are used interchangeably. Better actually have small differences rated sort of on the same scale Cycle paths are generally thought to be more organized intelligent and planned but some of the traits that both disorders share include a lack of empathy lack of sympathy emotional detachment impulsively general disregard for others superficialness. So someone said that they thought or there are many comments about what Melanie said but they thought that she locked emotions you know they thought it was sociopathic in nature and I think the only time as far as the recordings we have the only time she does show emotion is when she says I couldn't put him back in the water which I thought was interesting because it really wants I thought about it that Oh yeah that is the only time voice really cracked up but Megan. You met her on several other occasions. Did you notice any emotion for sure? Yeah sorta James to and not over emotion. She wasn't sitting there cheering crying. But there's definitely like micro expressions that I observed in her that That I could say You know she seemed more emotional at certain times. So it's interesting to look at these both way to look at this both ways. I'm not really sure here. You know some people felt like now. This is really consistent with you. Know a relationship. You know the the behavior in an abusive relationship. Some people thought no just consistent with one of these personality disorders and also I WANNA point out. Everyone shows emotion differently right. We know that emotion does not tell us some people cry when they're happy but not one they're set right so it's important to understand. That abnormal affects sometimes is just that? It doesn't mean that it's related to psychopathy agreed. Amy Thank you so next. Issue the walgreens issue so Listen a lot of feedback on this. A lot of feedback. Some people wrote in one of the comments was that Melanie could have called a prescription into walgreens but many pharmacies including walgreens have recording systems for healthcare providers to leave the information. So she would know that and she wouldn't want to record also if she got she called. GotTa Live Pharmacy Employee. They might question. An unusual order like quarrel hydrate about that. I'm not sure about that. One either But I do think. The recording information was interesting I'm not sure pharmacies do that. But it's definitely possible and I'm sure a lot of them do it now. I guess I'm not sure if they did it. Then right someone else wrote and if bill was trying to fill a prescription wouldn't he use a male patients name? Fertility centers have male patient records to those are the partners of women trying to get pregnant. I think that's a strong point because we said you know he did. We know he had access to the patients that I mean. That makes perfect sense to me. If you're going to call it in or if you're going to drop it off your mouth just make your life easier and take a male's identity. Yeah no I think that's possible as well. Yeah maybe you know. There's a an idea that most of the patients are going to be females. But yeah it's possible. It was also noted that I think when we were talking about it. We were saying. Oh you would need to show an insurance card and ID and it was brought to our attention that that was actually incorrect. Because you only need to present an insurance card if you want to go through insurance you pay out of pocket you could pay cash and there's really no record then so it is possible that somebody did drop this off and they just didn't present any sort of ID however of course if it was a controlled substance. They would need an idea but from what we understand. Chloro- hydrate is not in that class of drugs and the other issue that was brought up. Is We talked a lot about the time it was dropped off and you know whether or not that's enough time to drop off the children and all of that. It was brought to our attention by somebody who worked in a pharmacy. That's sometimes someone drops off script and you're busy doing something else and you kind of let it sit a little so drop off. Time does not mean the time the individual necessarily was in the pharmacy. Someone even said Hey could have been dropped off the day before and it was sitting in a pile and you know so. There's really no way to know that I think for me that you know that provided me with a different. It doesn't change things a lot but it's just something to consider that it's not necessarily what it seems per point. Let's see another listener wrote in someone who went to nursing school with Melanie and she said there is absolutely no way she would need to Google information about whether Insulin Jackson would kill. Someone also cutting. The body is not taught in nursing school. And I think Dr Barone spoke about that a little yeah we've been able to confirm that That's not something that's constantly taught at all when is taught no nurses or taught how to cut a body. And it's a possibility that Melanie would not need to look this up again. It's a possibility the insulin. She could have found that in her. Pdr so I can understand that comment as well. What do we have next talk a little bit about hearsay? Okay so if you recall George. Lowery was not allowed to testify to the point that he claimed that bill told him that he wanted a gun And if you recall the judge would not allow that in because that was hearsay and although there are different rules around here say one of the under the federal rules of evidence which a lot of states typically follow these One of the exceptions is if the person who originally said the statement. If they're no longer if they are not able to defend their position somebody else cannot speak on their behalf so the default position of the court is to keep the evidence out so in other words. If the bill were still alive then they would say. We don't care what George says. Bill said just bring billon since bill cannot come in and speak for himself they would rather just because he can't defend himself and say whether or not he did say that so they they're default position is to keep that information out. I think in this situation keeping it out was maybe not the right call regardless it wasn't allowed but it will come up later on in our final conclusions. I can tell you that so someone else wrote in that. You know she's a friend who's a defense attorney and her friend said that it's a known legal strategy to not object much if at all during openings or closings The friend thought that the attorneys in this case. Oh Joe Tech Pena and Stephen. Toronto should have definitely asked for a mistrial during the closing whether or not openings or closings are seen as evidence the prosecutor and that's Patty Prosciutto. Yosso was asking the jury to draw conclusions based on the lack of a gun. Buying conversation which goes back to the George Lowery conversation we just had it does but it also there were other statements that I'm patty made During the closing and that was asking the jury to assume facts that were never admitted into evidence such as it's possible that she was drugging him for days. It's possible that bill's body was frozen in the refrigerator. It's possible they said that she was overreaching. And that this is not good strategy and it actually is prosecutorial misconduct and it is grounds for a mistrial but of course acknowledged that mistrials are not always easy to come by. So the information was that. And we've heard this from a couple of attorneys. I spoke with another attorneys. Well who said he also thought? It was prosecutorial misconduct so in her closing. But that it's not common to object and Joe's reasoning for not objecting was. It'll make us look. Bad is not the wrong. Move per se another listener. Who is a forensic scientist for it in and said even without the root myocardial DNA analysis can still be run on hairs remember? We had all that untested hair. It's less common than nuclear DNA analysis because it cannot uniquely identify individuals. But it can certainly exclude Melanie. But even if it excludes melanie that doesn't mean she wasn't there right but they had all of these hairs and the problem was there was all these untested hairs. And all. The hairs that were tested said Brooks were not of evidentiary value. Because they couldn't match them to Melanie. Yeah that's very problematic because clearly you're saying this doesn't fit your theory so it's not of evidence value and there was tons of hair. It wasn't an animal hair. Animal Hair to You know what happened to that hair in and yes it's still. This hair could still be tested. So that's deter you know. Think about an. I asked Melanie about that. I don't believe it was ever brought up in her appeal so that not be brought. That seems to me that would be paramount so we thought that was. I thought Oh my God is important issue too. So it's possible that her attorneys they don't always present every issue. I guess during appeal. 'cause THEY WANNA save one like a golden nugget leadership in some of these arguments not prevail an earlier appeal. We'll get to this later. So she kinda thought it was a nugget. They were saving for her. And I'd say you know I don't know good trade if you're innocent you don't WANNA save marrying thing right. I understand that strategy but at the same time if I was I don't want to sit around for a couple of years. It's going to take for the appellate court and then to get the testing. I agree but I'm but so it is possible to test all these hair still so. I hope that we see an opportunity for that. I know that I would love to see that. That was one of your former students as well wasn't it yes I should say not a criminology student. She she took a class with me several years ago but she was A science major in who? She went on to become a forensic scientist so she also said that when she was listening to the prosecution's plastic expert. Frank Ruis she immediately wondered why he didn't do a nuclear magnetic resonance test and a gas chromatography test so she says she was really glad the defenses experts. Alexander pointed out that that testing was necessary to establish a plastic bag match so she She went on and I just shorten this but she went on to say that wall Mr Ruiz was correct. That some of these there were some indicators. He did not do all of the necessary testing and that SALGA was actually correct in saying you could establish a match without the test that he did not do so. Okay so what was what about. We heard from a pathologist as well. Right yes in. The Polish was really helpful. So the pathologist wrote in regarding Dr Barons testimony and also the medical examiner so it was great to hear from her She had a couple of main points that I thought were really interesting. She said I she'd have to argue that freezing changes the way epidermal cells look She said as a surgical pathologist I performed frozen sections almost every day. We routinely freeze tissue to get an immediate diagnosis while the patient is in surgery. And there is no perceptible. Change in the cell skin cells seen after freezing so remember there was. This idea had been Frozen which I still don't think he was. But yes if he had been Melanie and someone else question whether or not there wouldn't be changes to his skin. And so she sang absolutely not. There'd be no way to tell. I love our listeners. They're so smart right. We've some great listeners. And we thank you so much because we are not pathologists and we are not scientists and it's really useful to have input of people that are experts in these areas. So thank you very much. Yes thank you for that Okay her second point as far as the Human Sawdust this is hard to address without knowing exactly what was seen microscopically. There are elements that are seen in the durmus such as hair follicles and sweat glands that are only seen in dermal tissue other elements like fiber stromer nerves blood vessels smooth muscle et cetera can be seen in many different body tissues including Durmus. So I think she's just saying on this point is there's really no way to tell. The human saw us was an indicative either way so the third point she said the point the doctor Baron makes about the sawing is spot on tissue flies everywhere when sawing just Abon let alone cutting apart whole body parts. Going back to the idea that whether or not Melanie the prosecution clearly. Got This wrong where it was. Yeah crime seem not established and finally to Melanie's point of the color being incorrect. She said the medical examiner made a mistake about made mistakes about bills. I call her and something else. Was Melanie saying that to try to say. This person isn't credible or I'm not sure how how much I can tell you. Because her she got his Ike Laurent in this is to Melanie's point of color being correct. I color changes post mortem tending to become cloudy or darkened. Blue is therefore may look gray or brown within several days. Anger death so That's the reason. Why the Color may have changed. Also she says the legs looking fresh. So she's referring to bills lakes really probably means that they were submerged in the cold water longer and exposed to ambient temperature less time. She said the true postmortem interval should probably be estimated based on the body parts. That are the most decomposed as these. Were likely more exposed to ambient temperatures interesting. Yeah so I guess she saying that. The estimates based on you know how long the legs being fresh idea was that maybe he was killed just yesterday. Well maybe but she's saying I. It's probably a better estimate. If you're looking at the parts that were the most he composed and that wasn't Peleg's so all right. Thank you All right so talk a little bit about the mechanic who wrote in. Oh this is interesting so If you guys recall we talked about the fact. That bills headlights were getting stolen. I believe four or five times as headlights were stolen and we couldn't quite understand how this could keep happening. We talked about how he wrote off this loss on his taxes. And so I just want it before. Amy gets out. Also we recently were guest on crawlspace and the two hosts Tim and Lance. Oh Gosh one of them was like wait. What happened tenders headlights dawn and just could not five minutes on the interview on this and it's funny because since we've been looking at this so long it didn't really seem that crazy to me but hearing it from them hearing their reaction made me realize like yeah even twice would be strange right so it turns out that this was quite common for Nissan Maxima to have their headlights stolen because there was actually an igniter that was located behind the lenses and it was actually the igniter that was often stolen out of cars but in order to get to the igniter. You had to remove the headlights. So why did people want these igniters? Well gang members use them to make quote Unquote Street. Smarts stun-guns though. It is possible that the area where he worked we know is a high crime area. So it's very possible that there was heavy gang activity and it's possible that the lights were stolen. Be As a means to get to these egg nighters so I thought that was very interesting again. Thank you to our listeners for having such interesting insight into some of these things I looked into this issue when I saw that. It was a thing with the headlights. Were getting stolen but I didn't know it was because of the igniter but you know you have a mechanical company. Just great we have a forensic pathologists fronting scientists A lawyer s people who are writing in Thank you so much for your tips. Also information from you guys. Some of you wrote in with alternate theories of what may have happened to bill. So we're going to cover your theories and then we'll cover our center conclusions and also want to point out that some of these. We are lumping together because we had so many people send than so many theories that there were some themes that emerge so we're talking about themes more so than a specific email that contained a theory. So I think the first one. I think this might be the one. We heard the Moses. Perhaps it was a hit and a Hitman. Move the car to signal completed job. Maybe shut off the hotel recorder or maybe paid the hotel to erase it and Maybe Melanie Order. That hit of course someone else could have ordered it as well but based on the number of people that had this theory it seems like people seem to think. Maybe this was a murder for hire and Melanie was behind it. I thought it was an interesting point that we added here. Someone's had maybe The hotel recorder. You know that one with a missing surveillance maybe someone shut that off intentionally because it was kind of odd that seven days was missing Yep Yeah so it's definitely possible that Melania someone else ordered the head And there's all these hotels involved right so speaking of the hotel someone wrote in Isn't it a strong likelihood that he was killed at the hotel they ever check for evidence in any hotel room? Maybe the hairs came from. There may be the animal hairs came from there. It's possible but also which hotel You had brought this up so there are a couple. Hotels are involved. There's a hotel luxury in where Melanie says. She found his car but no one could ever present say there was no that wasn't substantial. But then there's the Flamingo in on. That's where his car is actually found. So I think this person is saying is impossible that he was killed in the Flamingo. In in this hotel room maybe. The hairs came from there now. There was an investigation and they looked into whether or not he was registered. There and he wasn't but that also I don't know if that means he wasn't registered under another name And with with the guest correct also. There is the Red Rufin which is where Melanie check. Did too and someone else asked. Isn't it possible that she did something to him there? I will say. I think that's highly unlikely because she doesn't fit. Either timeline could fit. But I think it'd be highly unlikely that she's transporting bill to the Red Roof Inn. And how is she doing this? And a little risky because remember we did visit that roofing and it's in a high populated area. It doesn't but that's an interesting point. Did they search those any of those hotel rooms? So the Red Rufin. Yes they did but it was later was much later. So they didn't find any They didn't search any the Flamingo in hotel rooms knowledge because they couldn't find him registered there. Okay so another theory. Someone wrote instead of foul play occurred in Atlantic City. As seems feasible. Maybe it was an issue with a prostitute. John Known in that area there certainly no evidence to sound worth that just to be clear on but I did see that a couple of people who wrote that in and probably because of the area in Atlantic City Okay so that's another theory And I think along with that was I read maybe one or two people that said maybe he just slept with the wrong woman. Yes absolutely right. It was a sex worker or not. It's very possible that he was having an affair and it was with a husband who got very angry. Yep We definitely saw that. Come up again. So thank you for that one to amy Another listener wrote in. Although it was mentioned that Melanie was slight and the case test was done with enough adrenaline anger. People can lift much more than you would think. Adrenaline panic would mean a very quick messy process. Dispose of a body and being being a nurse would therefore not cut a buddy body like that. As we suggest. Seems a moot point Look at the Robert Durst case for example. He was old and frail and dismembered body and through trash bags into water which also contained body parts. Very interesting point. I thought that's a great point to be on us and I'm sure there's people listening that can think of times where they had. What seemed like superhuman strength? Whether it be a child in a car you know you got free Carson and your child in the car you know you've heard stories of mothers literally lifting up a car so I thought that was a really interesting point. I think so too actually. I wouldn't have. It was good to frame it in terms of durst. Is it possible? Sure Yeah I think that was a fair point. So thank you to the listener for radio. Do you want to point out that? It's likely if if things happen. The way. The prosecution contends that his body was cut up somewhere and then brought to the Chesapeake Bay. The adrenaline would be happening during the cutting up of the body. And you would think that would have calmed down by the time you get to the bridge to throw the bodies that you know to throw the suitcases over but all right someone else wrote in this was a couple people that wrote this in that. I found it very particular. That Bill Maguire's remains were found in Virginia beach where John and his wife Susan Live. This appears to be a lead that may not have been explored given the evidence presented so this was an interesting point because a couple of people wrote in bills remains were found in the Chesapeake Bay and his friends. The races are the ones who identified the sketch and called into the police. And they lift right there and might I point out something at this point. Also as the composite sketch does not very closely resemble bill so it. It does seem curious that his friends were so quick to identify him and along with that very recently a listener wrote in which I thought was very interesting. Was if melanie and sue were friends and she saw this composite sketch would she not? I PICK UP THE PHONE TO CALL MELANIE. And say hey. I just saw on the local news. This sketch like could this be or just something. It seems like I don't know it was. It was very interesting. I thought it was a good question Why didn't you know they were actually bills friends? But they knew Mellon quite well. And I know that Melanie had spoken on the phone with John Reysen. Why didn't they immediately call her? My God we think we saw this. I saw the sketch in question. And I don't know tough call. I could see maybe how someone who knew him really well might think it was him but I also see how it looks. Nothing like him actually be curious from other people who know bill what their opinion is on that composite sketch. Maybe I don't know at no you know. Obviously we didn't know him so it's hard for us. We're comparing it to a picture but obviously somebody right in front of you as presents much differently but fair points right. And when you're conducting investigations you're supposed to look into and we've certainly heard of cases where oh it seems unlikely that you know friends are involved or it seems unlikely. Lead by yet. It seems a lead that probably should have been explored at very least they could have explored alibis and ruled them out fairly quickly. I think so. Yeah so fair point. Thank you for writing about that too. So all right. It's time for us to review our final thoughts and conclusions. Please tell me Meghan dying to know I have an idea. I think I might know where you're going but I am excited to hear this well We said that we would provide a couple of conclusions. I about whether or not you know. There was reasonable doubt and a fair trial and second. I guess. Innocence or guilt. So I'll start with the trial. I think it's really fair to say at this point. No no guests here that there was plenty of reasonable doubt and I I really do think that a jury should have seen that however I would also say that. Perhaps because the defense didn't do a good enough job the prosecution stepped over some boundaries and the judge made some decisions that were not beneficial to the defense that they weren't able to I think at the very least I'm shocked that they believed the whole crime scene explanation so in. This case is littered with reasonable doubt. I find it interesting because I think you and I might end up on a different side on some issues but I think we can both hundred percent say. If we were on that jury we would have acquitted. The reasonable doubt standard is that you're supposed to be ninety nine point nine percent certain that someone is guilty So I I don't think there's any way that either one of us could have said that now's the good part okay. Was it a fair? Trial is also a little bit different I have mixed feelings about the fair trial so I think there were certain decisions that did not work in Melanie's favor. I think that there was a huge mistake. It's discretion but I think it was a mistake that Bills ex-wife George. Lowery were not allowed to testify and I think it could have turned the case different way. So you know there were parts of the trial that seemingly were fair. Yes and parts. That were unfair so again. Was that trial strategy or you talk to say. Oh No I think I won't say I don't know I think that the that it was a semi fair trial right and which some actors just made bad moves. Let's put it that way okay. So would you say? Let's get to the juicy part I want to know. Do you think she is innocent or guilty okay. So I don't know if anyone's going to be surprised or I don't know if everyone will be surprised but in the end. I believe that Melanie. Mcguire was wrongfully convicted. And I'm actually a little bit surprised by that. Your tone over the last few episodes may be had me thinking that but when we started out I would not have thought that that's funny because it was the opposite so even though I said in the beginning I was unbiased. I wanted to believe that but it wasn't true. I actually believed Melanie was guilty on the start and I believe that over Quite some time. Yeah I'm even as I interviewed her and Doug through it wasn't until I went real like the deepest dive ever into the evidence into the interviews into the trial. I mean it took everything and I wasn't even sure of my conclusion to be honest probably until two days ago but I think more. Interestingly which I'm on the edge of my seat here is if she didn't do it then who the hell did. Well okay let me start with the reasons why I think she convicted. And then I'm going to get to my alternative theory okay. So number one is obviously that there is absolutely no crime scene. And I can't find a plausible explanation tying melanie to the actual crime itself to the actual physical crime so lack of crime scene is number one on and lack of any physical evidence connecting. Melanie to the crime is certainly Goes along with that number three. I guess I would say two or three. There are several untested human hairs. That were found in all those bags that bill's body parts were found in that did not match. Melanie did not match her family. And there was tons of animal hair and I find this highly suspicious. There were fingerprints that did not match her family or her on so I would personally think that to come to a conclusion of guilt there would have to be matches in in this arena for sure. Okay so reason number. Four the gun that was purchased by. Melanie seemed suspicious on the out front. And it's still suspicious. Don't get me wrong but initially I was like well. She bought a gun. But honestly George Lowery's testimony. This man who knew bill but did not do know Melanie has absolutely no reason to get up there and lie. His testimony would have exactly supported. Melanie's version of why she got the gun. Bill told him I was a felon and I'm having my wife get a gun and a couple of months later. That's just what happens so I think for me. This explains the gun puts out in the in the proper context. Okay so this one was a mixed. I put this down as a point. But it's not my strongest point. The medical examiner said bills legs looked fresh. If Melanie had killed him sixties before. I don't think this would be the case. The prosecution who this was a surprise to the prosecution if you remember when they when they heard that Patty actually adjusted the theory in the end will. Maybe it's possible that she was either drugging him over days and didn't kill him right away. Or maybe it's possible that she froze his body parts and that was in direct response to the medical examiner saying those legs look fresh. Now the pathologist she added you know a different opinion on this but I still think there's a possibility here that we're not looking at the fact that maybe he wasn't killed until much later. Okay let's see point number six. The computer searches which you know we dug into and did our own analysis on. I believe that the I cannot say definitively but I believe the computer searches. Were much more likely to have been made by bill. Mcguire then Melanie so no. We can't say completely. We didn't have our own frenzy. Computer analysts. Look at this but when we put it altogether in the timelines and searched the surrounding websites. I actually think it was bill. Mcguire that made These searches and not Melanie McGuire. And I do believe to the point that Melanie has a PDR and had access to a lot information than bill would have had access to. I don't think she would have needed to leave such an electronic trail Okay I'm I'm getting their point seven while I sense that bill might have made a divorce difficult and might have been a difficult. X-nate think Melanie admitted this much. There was no financial motive or immediate plans to be with Brad. So the motive is there but it's a little bit weaker for me. Even Brad admits no we were. We were waiting till our kids got older. I would not have. Small Kids Melania shocks on their record conversations when Brad ever even brought up About you know I'm GonNa get divorced. She was talking about. This is not even something we've talked about so the motives a little bit week for me but I can still see where people see. There's a motive and I would also say that To a point that I said earlier the consistency that Melanie shows she is one of the most consistent people I have ever seen the story never changes and I find her. Consistency is something that you would have to consider so all of these things when I put them together. Pretty much lead me to a wrongful conviction. Do I have reservations? Es My conclusion is wrongful conviction. One hundred percent absolutely not evidence. Tomorrow that will change my mind absolutely and if I'm wrong I'm happy to say I'm wrong here. The reservations that I have heard the Atlantic City trips. Certainly they are the thing that the strongest piece of evidence I have always thought pointing to her guilt or possible involvement and they bother me so amy and I went to Atlantic City and we went to this motel. We drove and we we. We took video. I think which we may put up at a later date to test us idea. Could she see bills car from you know? She said she saw his car and license place. And I think initially we thought that's ridiculous to be able to in fact when we went by I thought it was. I was shocked how close the lot was to actual road. And it's closer than I had imagined. I thought it was much further. Even when we China like Google map and stuff but when we went by it's it was definitely possible to see a car. A license plate. Yeah and I don't even have great eyesight and I was able to see the car's license me very clear so it's possible certainly again. We tested it out. Also someone wrote in about the effects of ZANEX. Actually two people wrote in about this and I thought this was interesting. Melanie had claimed that she had started taking xanax. And from what I've seen she didn't have a history of taking it. She said that the Zanex really clouded her judgment And I thought well I don't really know about that. And then two people wrote in one very specifically saying when she first started taking xanax or otherwise. Rational behavior went very rational. And she did things she said. She lost time And things that she couldn't believe afterwards that she did so she didn't actually find this to be so crazy. Said sounds like something I would have done. I'm still not sure that I believe that explanation but there was some support so my reservations definitely liddel antic city trips. You know I think they are to understand and you're talking about not only the fact that she went but the fact that she took a cab. Oh yeah in. From high point that out their hearts to that. Yeah no I actually know so the interesting thing is i. Don't think the Atlantic City trip. I should have clarified on there on the surface where that damning okay so with the camera twice right and says I was looking for him. I believe that she went back on the Eighteenth. I it would be odd to me if on. May Eighteenth her you know. Bill is long gone and she knows it. Why the Hell is she going back again to Atlantic city? The only plausible explanation. I can find on that one is that she's actually looking for him. Yeah it's the cab rides that bothered me. Come on the EZ pass. Doesn't bother you as you call these. Sorry ACID I jump ahead no okay cab rides and that. Kinda easy past. Those are the parts that I find very difficult to live with. But if I have to pick assignment I'm GONNA err on the side of just irrational erratic behavior. The choral hydrate prescription is my reservation. Jackie said that she thought Melania had written it There's mixed sort of opinions on this. I don't know did Melanie Right. It and Melanie pick it up. I really can't say I can't say that I feel so strongly one way or the other. I think it seems likely that she wrote it But then I hear that you know. Bill has a pharmacy background. And he has. You know I'm sorry to say it but a forgery conviction and there was a prescription for Dalmatian written a month before and it makes me think someone was getting these prescriptions. And maybe that's someone wasn't melanie but I also don't even know if the choral hydrate was involved in this Kreil. It could have been melanie for some other purpose and then she just lied initially in jet the sick with it. Maybe she was doing it but she was doing it because she needed help sleeping and she realized that was forgery. And she's lied and now she's sick with it. It could be innocuous I agree I think it ju I just think it could be. I don't know the explanation and I can't speculate on this one enough so but these I think my two main reservations are the coral hydrate a little bit but the the cab rides in easy pass so my alternative theory after going through everything. I don't have specific people in hunting to you. But here's what makes the most sense to me. I think that bill was killed in Virginia. Not In Atlantic City I think that bill got himself out of the House and got himself to Virginia. I think that he did meet up with Someone he knew whether this is an acquaintance or maybe with someone in Virginia. I think okay. I think he met up with someone in Virginia And Actually I. I'm not positive if he met up with people he knew he had ties to Virginia. Now he lived there for six years so he knew other people not just the rices or whether he met someone and made an acquaintance in Virginia. Okay this fight was supposedly out Virginia So I do think he went back to Virginia. I do think he was killed in Virginia. I think it makes way more sense than someone killing him in New Jersey and driving the body parts. Seven hours to me. That is never ever made sense now. Can I ask you a question if if that's your thought? What's the deal with the car? Nasc- yeah plant plant the car somewhere else. Clinton. Ac. Where a bill says he always go? You're saying the person in Virginia planted the car. Okay cars a plant on to easier to get a car across seven hours or worried about driving a car worried about driving a body one way or the car was a plant in Atlantic city which made perfect sense. So it's either someone build new or someone he met and said Yeah I gamble in Atlantic. I'm you know what I mean like. If he's a talker and he's gregarious he could meet someone on the first night and be talking about. Let's go to a seat tonight or you know. So That's interesting. I think it's definitely possible. The car was a plan to Atlantic city. I also think that the way that bill was His body was dismembered. I think that he was shot. And I'm not. I could not tell you if he was shot inside or outside but I think that his body was dismembered in a slaughterhouse interesting. Yes I think that the way has body was cut definitely indicates a saw shore. I'm just not sure it's this hand-held reciprocating so whether or not it's an industrial. Aw You could say I think. That in a slaughterhouse or a type of butchery. You don't need to worry at all about tissue splutter. Blood going everywhere. Because that's what's to be expected and liars in it blends in. I think there's also a lot of animal hair in slaughter houses and I think that the way that it was explained that he was extended while that's also a typical practice in a slaughterhouse when a body is put in a certain way the bleeding of a body. So I think for me. It seems a lot more logical and I it was that I think he was dismembered. And the final part here. I would say is I. Don't believe that yes. I believe his body was placed in his suitcases But I don't believe necessarily that they were thrown off the bridge. I think it is more likely that someone took a boat out and dropped his body of the side of a boat. Reclaim suitcases very interesting. So going back to those hairs so your theory could very easily have a little more weight to it. We knew what kind of animal hairs those could. You imagine if they check the animal hairs and it's not just a domestic pet right. It would be so interesting so much more interesting than your I mean I think I have to say Meccan. I'm impressed. Oh thank you. I mean the fact that the body being cut up not having to worry about blood and tissue because it's going to clearly blend in even tying in the animal hairs and you know the blood being drained and you know I. It's it's a solid theory there. I had a little help at this one. Just so you know you did from the person who did it not exactly but I have some input on this. You know I won't take full credit but I do believe it in the end. That is the most plausible explanation to make. Okay and I'm GONNA BE TOTALLY OFF. But Hey hey well you know what again. I think that is a well thought out explanation. Don't choose to disagree respectfully all right here. We go Amy We'll get ABC stations now. But I think we've already agreed on the reasonable doubt. Es The only thing. I want to add to that you know I want to talk about you. Know I would definitely have acquitted her on first degree murder and desecrating human remains She should not have been convicted of first degree murder. Because I do not believe that she knowingly and purposely killed bill were caused seriously bodily harm that led to build staff is going off the legal definition. A quit quit quit. Okay okay okay. Now I think that she knows more than she is saying. It's hard for me to say guilt or innocence. Because I'm really like I said I would quit however I do. I cannot say that I believe she's innocent at this point. I also don't feel comfortable saying I believe she is guilty. However I do believe that maybe a fair a more fair outcome would have been maybe accessory to murder which carries a Max of ten years in New Jersey okay. So that's kind of leading into my theory here. I believe that if I had to say I'm I'm not going through the evidence the way you did because most of our points are going to be similar as far as you know. What evidence was the most damning? And what leaves questions? I don't want to do that but what I will say is. I think that it is possible. That the night of the closing Melanie. I'm bill maybe had a drink or two. It's possible that the Clara hydrate was used to sedate bill just enough so that he could possibly be carried out against his will meaning. Maybe he was a little drunk a little sleepy. There are two purpose in my theory. Melanie did not. There was nothing that Melanie did by her own hands so I believe that. She has convinced herself that she is in the wrong place because she does not deserve to be in prison for life because she did not. According to the legal definition she did not commit first degree murder however I can imagine a situation where she perhaps set up some sort of payment or incentive to other people possibly one car to purpose came to Woodbridge. Bill was sedated enough that they carried him down. Melanie gave one of them his car keys. I do want to back up that Melanie perhaps supplied these individuals with the gun and the suitcases and the garbage bags bills car was packed up and ready to go with everything. They need two cars on the way to AC PERP. One driving one car per to driving bills car bill probably in his car just goes if there's going to be evidence of bill let's keep bills. Dna and bills car right. So that's how bills car got. Ac I think he was killed somewhere between ACN Virginia whether that's closer to AC or closer to Virginia. I'm I don't really have a reason to believe one or the other but I do believe that. Melanie's trips to Atlantic city were to either remove slash plant evidence to get proof that the job was done and I do believe that that Delaware might have been a meeting to give the PERP the final incentive. The job has now been done. And maybe they gave her proof of it. She gave the final payment. Which is why she was in. Delaware and again. I believe that I do not believe that Melanie is capable of the cold blooded murder that they claim you know. I do not believe that she would do such a thing and do not believe she was capable of doing such a thing whether that mean emotionally physically mentally. I don't think she could have done it. Some of this shady financial stuff the money going in going out. That could have actually been melanie moving money around. Although Melanie claims she did have no control over the finances. That's Melanie's claim. I'm not sure if that has been corroborated by anyone else so it is possible that she was involved in some sort of illegal activity or side Hustle. That was giving her some money that she was able to make these big deposits and moving money around a not again. This is all really. I'm not even positive as I'm saying it but these are just things that have been popping into my head so I think you know if this were the case then. She should still not be in prison. Because I'm in New Jersey again. There is a ten year Max for a murder for hire. So Oh either way. There's a huge injustice regardless of. Let's say my theory is true which again I don't know I'm just speculating here. There's a grave injustice being done because you know per one and per to they could potentially still be out there. I actually believe that this per one impromptu who were driving the cars down to a see I do believe that one if not both of them are deceased at the very least serving life without parole anyway because otherwise they would have an incentive to talk right meaning if okay they wanna make a plea deal. They're in prison for something else. I'll give you some information. I know you don't believe that. Because you think that would probably self implicate. But I do think that if more than one person knows the truth it eventually comes out somewhere somehow. Whether it be on the deathbed or a jailhouse informant something happens. I feel like people or person responsible for being the hand of this is deceased or incapacitated in some way whether they be in a coma or you know whether they be so old and ill that or something or maybe they just started life over and they live in another country and they don't even think about this anymore right really interesting. You may cause the Atlantic City trips and explaining those. That's an interesting theory. I actually thought about so. I tried to get my head around. Like what would be any explanation that I could tie her to the crime and my only thought was that she drugged bill and someone helped carrying. Yeah I will say. I don't think it's likely that two more people are involved only because if three people the same way that even if one additional purpose that's why I say information dead though or you know what I mean like maybe But I do have a secondary theory which is fair enough and that was my thought too. I even though I respectfully do not think that that's the way it happened. I certainly can allow for that possibility and I do believe if Melanie is fully innocent. Which again I don't know I you know I'm I'm still trying to figure this all out but I do believe if she is innocent. I definitely think that it was someone he knew in Virginia who either met him in Atlantic City. Oh Yeah let's meet halfway or you come more my way but you know 'cause we do know that he did gamble with some friends that lived in. Virginia it's possible he met them in Atlantic City to gamble. Something went wrong foul play. I might as well take him home with me because I have to go that way anyway. Oh that's interesting then goes so. That's a okay so for the audience. I hope we've given you our final opinions. You know. Interestingly when I started I thought at the end I would have a hundred percent higher. Needs to know exactly right. So we've given you our conclusions to the best of our ability. Do not stand behind mine and like I said my opinion can change tomorrow like you said about yours and I wanNA point out that when we started this. I was like yes. This is going to be a wrongful conviction. That's why I find interesting. We somewhat switched to somewhat switch. I am very innocence minded. You know so you could say on one would say well. Megan clearly came to a conclusion. Cushy so close johnny. She was the one who researched. Who spent time without a right Which could be a negative or too close to it and I could certainly allow for that criticism and I understand that happens but you could also say we'll Meghan knows more because she got so close right So you could say. Amy came to her conclusion. Because she's truly unbiased or McCain's conclusion because she didn't know everything Meghan new so instead I'll work. It's the foreign against and I. I'm sorry and I do have to say that is an interesting point because I never did any of the face to face with Melanie. I do not know Melanie just from meeting. Melanie's parents. This is hard for me to say because I have such respect for her parents that you know so I could imagine that when you get closer to something it becomes very difficult. It becomes very difficult but I mean I think you allowed for the possibility and we both do. We can be right or wrong. This is our opinion to the best of our Best part conclusion. So let's we'd like to end with a couple of future steps. First of all we would love to get information still from the prosecutor's office or from the courts it would be lovely to see what information was actually obtained and used and I have questions again about the hairs. The Palm Prints I also wonder whether cadaver dog was used for the cars and I have questions about the missing surveillance tape so I think that it would be lovely to be able to see more. Get more evidence if possible. Another avenue this before really melanie. Brian would be to write to now. New Jersey has what the conviction integrity unit. Yep that amy. Prosecutor offices have started going back and reviewing their own cases so in other words the prosecutor's Office that convicted. Melanie would agree to take a look back. And you see this happening a lot in very progressive places like Kings County Brooklyn but typically the person you know when they're looking back cases a lot of times. Those prosecutors are no longer working there because it's really hard to investigate something that's yours all order. It presents actually an inherent kind of conundrum. Here investigating our own wirelessly. I give offices such credit because they are really putting them prosecutor offices that are willing to do. This are really putting their neck out there. Yeah I think so. This is just a future step also for maybe Melanie and it might It meant allow her no matter if she's innocent or guilty to at least get some of the evidence that she would like to test again. We also would love a forensic linguistics expert to help us out with these letters that we would still love to be able to determine authorship of so If anyone contact us or if anyone knows anyone please do contact US anime. I give the tip line again talking. Keep checking the tip. Lie So go right ahead. So of course you can always email us at info at direct appeal. Podcasts DOT COM. You can always write offs on any of our various social media platforms or you can call us at seven three two five one zero eight zero nine nine six again. The number seven three two five one zero zero nine nine six and just to wrap it up. We would like to thank you again for listening to our podcast discussing the case and forming your own conclusions. Though we are finished with the season of direct appeal we are also considering cases for a possible direct appeal season two. So we'll keep you posted on that for sure. In the meantime amy and I are moving into another project that some of you may be interested in. Be Sure to subscribe to our new podcast women. Crime also amy and I are working on a new research projects and we need your help as criminologist. We're looking to better understand. What factors are related to culpability judgments in your opinions in your thoughts on Melanie's guilt or innocence will help us do just that. If you'd like to contribute please take a short survey at direct appeal. Podcast DOT COM SLASH. Survey will leave link for you in the show. Notes be assured that all of your answers will be kept anonymous and later. If you'd like to know the results you can check them out on social media. Thanks for listening. Direct appeals hosted by Megan Saxon. Amy Schlossberg our producer is James Varga. The Story Arc was written by Megan sacks music underscore desert media reported mixed and edited by Justin Crowd at J. C. Studios Special. Thanks to Alan Tuckerman. Whose work was integral to this production to view photos. Evidence and engage with other listeners. Visit Direct Appeal PODCASTS DOT COM and. Follow us on. Instagram facebook and twitter. If you tip you can submit through our website or by emailing tips at direct appeal. Podcast DOT COM. You can also help us out by leaving a five star review on Apple Itunes or wherever you listen.

Melanie Bill Amy Atlantic City Patty Prosciutto Melania Bill McGuire Virginia George Lowery Bill Maguire Melanie Right Joe Tom Terry prosecutor Melanie Order Melanie McGuire murder Nextel
Episode 18: Why do we create Excuses

Inspiration Nation

1:06:16 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 18: Why do we create Excuses

"Inspiration nation hello lee compete once again with joe neue and we're joined again this week bali roy in as well how you can thank you. I'm john who could be back on the focus at all and i can't point a camera research soda chat w every so please call now we guest gauge second second one for ryan guidance for the show. We are dane podcast. We are initially because well well. We have a full spectrum. You don't give it a look <hes> we did last week which will do sporadically a an instagram lawyers as well on record in go quite good few follows free goods and good feedback to the show last week when i mention is away as the twitter and facebook and instagram yet thing that's all trans struggle with social. Social media feeds to grind youtube as well so well. It's the it's the in patient nation podcast on youtube. Joe is on platforms at jillian coach and tech. We offer the show at listen to gain listen t o i n <hes> appreciate any feedback and interaction any comments. Anyone has across cross alleged platforms and again download streaming service. If you're watching on youtube please give us. A law gives us. A fallout davison review really appreciate all of that so talk sweet jogging siamese week we talking about. Why do we excuses so comical. We take selected to throw up excuses when we want to do things and a guy unless we talk about the complaints we before we we came on the pope calls. The a loss you took them was refi back into. We've got this frightening things you think stuff so so so i got a little definition definition it is excuse is a reason that you gave in order to explain what something has been done what hasn't been done or in order to avoid something which i think are quite like because last bits for pizza might president as an nothing for me as well. It's like <hes> to me. He's like so he has been done an aging on the piece of some embassies full. I'm blaming someone else. <unk> distinguished someone's home. It did it so that's the vote and i think there's involved in that and those excuses as well so excuses agreed dangerous author that time just as more utilize. I think it's different quite dangerous because my view seek to excel absolve himself is that it's not a word that's not zoll your responsibility to situation side. If you going to do something he saw combat because you'll make a conscious choice not to thing because whatever you decided that is the things going to stop on the barrie now with a lot of things that we have to deal with me. There was so many ski susan coach people when you put things out there and the excuse that the excuses but the a total justifiable no sign not the one is genuine on those same excuse his vice tommy valid but this is what you say this title that gives us permission to guy norris quantum anthony thing and that's why i want to talk about the diabetes because your excuses disease. I feel will stop you get into fisher and kate. You'll be gull ginger aspirational aspirational vision of what you look at and we want to do in your life when we registered excuse to that brian. We just telling brian that he's outside. We've we feel confident that but the problem is as we let go through time as you sign the previous one you assign about the people like to be comfortable and you get that couple who live or an assigned to having that blowing snow. It's just more jobs to wake you up from that site. What is helping everyone one. Everyone everyone has something in that. I won't express is some soul town. I have this um founding that just not willing to put themselves out at discoverable that ease tripoli and the reason we do it is this is all things on judgment and talked about these excuses one of those reasons but i come from from fundamental human behavioral issues. Are we talk about thea. Your talked about judgment those types of things and that's really what i wanted to talk talk about so now responsibility all she goes so if you heat up your smoking what what's your view on that if you if you we can just move responsible. What was your thing what you say. There's roy c way. I said big papi excuse my kennedy's took responsibility or it's something we've seen. We've talked about his type thing and i think once you making excuse your you remove your ownership initiative of wifi situations because you're you're putting by onto someone else so it's not name is may or you're doing something because you've been told to do it so again they told me on. I'm just doing what i was told me to you. All of it is trying to take away your responsibility from eva to live on something that involves or because something's in rome and i think any touch on i think he goes back to again. That kind of safety mechanism we have is that fear of failure fear of being in trouble kick satan hughes making westall's power. They defensive barriers. This is how i see it and when we go through those types of things at pride scams ought to do that because he's got back in those days. I'm not going to go out because what foreign wars rex whatever that's just my fifth hearing take your word legitimate hey joe because people and dinosaurs live at the same time that documentary at different times that you watch made the heights but a way of wherever it is essentially tigers not not really telling them this. I was calling. We'll be threatening inch cyprus books actually in this film things on three of them. They've made all type in what your thoughts around excuses. Q._c.'s an actual have you have you had experience. Police uses before doing things we hadn't sold walk your commute person. Everyone's had excuses. It's been doing things you know doing things all the time. <hes> i think people would like to have people like to pre plan their excuses. In case something goes wrong and it goes goes back to the firefighter thing about the other week i think the who will design an excuse in the head will happen this usually in the head so they something does go wrong or if they all challenged for doing something then they can excuse away or explain away why that's happened or why they still well that was okay. She thinks they did that does a people it might not need to use excuses but he gives them a sense of comfort jeff yeah. Does your wife in gives. I'm a full confidence that what they're doing is protected is guaranteed because they have an excuse for doing it. <hes> whether they excuses genuine mina also major whatever whatever the excuse is it gives people validity that what they're doing is the right thing what they're doing khan be diminish to copy. It can't be put down because they bought excuse for doing it and there's a reason that they've done it. Nice quality pre planning of the skins inches doesn't calkins put put on that yet again not unlike you sanjay behavior. It's kind of hard widens last point. Today's where we talk to your friends about white can people up trying to change how you said. You don't need it because i think he can be restrictive because it stops <music>. If your instinct is to be able to pass the bar you're not taking ownership for things and i think he's when we say that kind of self awareness and that ownership thing is where people grow for the etc. Thank you out with that mindset to really embrace. It must be woken up. He'll make your rights and the reason also come up with this idea to the video that you can go up at brooklyn on actually terry crews yet locked harry craig melvin goes on. I think he's always on instagram pipe because you can you can have a whole tiny with excuses but you are the king of your kingdom <hes> essentially paolo to s title doing this jordan people listening jewelry now see me had the piece of pipe a pup times as much as your rendition off ice square block in a table of help people visualize this jonathan gas to go ahead without ah very tricky awful so very much nature like a tiger chief. You have the power to do this this literally just old objects of that type of credit because you kinda. He cleared them. That's your choice. You choose to put the case on the table. You can take it off the table but it's all down your choices and your choices the things that lead you into wherever you want to do so what we realized that we could go ah the mind or brains or tennis continue this case actually think about the energy. You're using the actions of the back of that tree plan. Excuse will be even more limited because of the tree plant. Excuse you may go care as much about the outcome of close overpriced because you're not going to type the brunt of the responsibility so that means you're not going to take as much actual be on that as you would have done it mobile all reasons that because one hundred maybe a toxic environment so as ten you want to do and you might not believe the things you have to do it anyway. So there's that toy so in that situation you've always coaching in that situation all over to say you need to go chat with that person and confront that on the challenge that because if you left to be you have to be things to take action if your leader lay you lay you can with yourself and your your solves is who'll career with your dome on that paul is that we need to be as lead is be aware of that in terms of you probably fell to yourself idolize. I know i believed in the vision and i've done that. I've said well that's because yeah we'll really why should have done is taking control back control and the thing we can control is us and how we have agreed you got. How can i personally people to say these the reasons to think this is gonna have you should has anybody could constructing the language. Which is the outcome of course. It's all of it well. It could be a toxic environment in which case you have to make a choice some of you and stein barmen mm-hmm okay. If that's kick the environment then you go to detroit at the time. We talked about that in people because the things i've done to come out in vauxhall dogs. I need to come out to its drug candidates talking about excuses and terry crews it really love that you all the king of your call. You can say thanks. You got cleared out. You know you can tell people to get out of your call because the things that you and your total world is the thing that you have ultimate control them no one else yes. Yes we can influence she but ultimately you learn how you can decide whether you accept that. Would you take fat limo and that seems more acceptable. Those it's all things being conscious about. You know we have an excuse. Why are we having nice case in china. Excuse while we put nice type all of reasons this excuse i'm lives. Muslims educated at the safety of exciting wasn't hype them for that so because talking to you for <hes> who actually do think of that the pre planning and rock gritty. Have you got any more thoughts around that. Oth- talk is over now. I think need kind of hesitate to terry crews six forty eight conscious for in your hate. Hey you're in control of these things. The more you're making excuses the more you're limiting your own your control that situation the responsibility in it and you'll paul in those outcomes and i said he's from a place that i can look back and know what in the past and this certain times it stick with me and my hate and you know when you start thinking the pulse and stuff and his toys wayne i've made excuses and evade me cringe now to evacuate because it it doesn't actually help people people don't generally bow your excuses. If you're making excuses he starts craig in the arena of conflict or pace of people eh you don't take ownership and generally that's not what people looking forward for p. Poke if you didn't skips people might not and like lambs all but in the back they must've asked this case. I'm gonna tell you as pets in the possession of you so you can live so if you hear about it you all so per person you will different. We have to have done this species. Definitely i think of schwann well you disliked. Coachee deal of mine was all county and the judge dole <hes> <hes> time off a big get while i'm gonna hit uncovering that because that is somewhat here law nothing as you lead. All ready talked about law win. I'm just here to die angle talk to diesels flowness. All the favorite of all the shows we've done so far is the one that stays looker. I help is productive which interesting if anything was going to sum up the message for us but certainly for me. It does anything in terms of about key club. That's the message. I'd love to be to white. Why can't you went up to is to get out with these funk of being busy which is a complete self. Impose kind of cage on people and turn into being productive. He's framing yourself itself. The everything you give us moving you close to something ralph and everything ironically everything you do be infiltrated as a barrier to gain to where you want to you. Don't get anywhere if you do nothing thing and it's horrible as the big east. I haven't got time. He's a number keeps when east to launch related degree in control of their time roy thousand yes. I do a lot of people if you mentioned last week in a po- cost mosque. I think twenty five hundred i guess yes let's was he dumped his tongue pretty impressive. The lost spice prevent age louis things into size the college. I think yeah tesla who'd show i mean it's impressive. Isn't it by calling the week of his background. Let's start with nothing star from absolute nothing he started less than we had when we started this and already like you said all these six especially in the entrepreneurial space where we leaned to a real people at one point or enough didn't have the means to to extend do what they want to start from nothing always at some point that the job and they had dreams a night ain't they said they told me they dream drove them being too busy to do things and i think it's the same works by. Some people getting really well. Some people will wash except hold themselves back back again when you narrow it down to for eight nine hours of work again. You've got that same taught me how you choose to use that and i think the second you become to b._c. It's the second you talking about. Sir don't feel success. Who says you shakily so. Let's talk about so it's a wise thing that people saw throughout the time issuing what you think what your views because on one ominous throw out there what you think call. Everybody wanna campaign <hes>. I think people aren't making the excuse to that busy all the time because they i want to do what else get is. Why don't you think that would do thomas case. Would it depends on what the talks is. Now i mean wouldn't you think majority what would you do. The underlying you'll know is invested in the idea is the pessimist brought the idea to them. <hes> whether it's professional wall roll all kind of social data been brought to them now think of any excuse i can and i think the easy excuse easy as you can you think of is too busy and that's exactly what i was going to sign your questions. I think i'm i'm busy. It's the easy. Elsa is the eight so subjective. It's not quantifiable. You can't release you can just that's it yeah our cat. You're too busy nearby yeah one more for mris. Is that yet it talk about what could be about invested in your day. Your day began. They talked to whatever this some thing around leadership and being told you need to do some things some talk. My thing is around this person development which is moist ice in specialty torch niro's as well but most is more around as well the person first and then. I want you to think about your personal development. I wanted to use a person is that you'll reason it's not strong enough to do your thing. Whatever that reason is you'll be stronger than you that time so the question like seek angled time that wouldn't go out and goes away away to a waiting and personal spoke to were in family which is unless is kid. It's not pretty much. Debate is comfortable comfortable thing. They expect it yeah. It's a family business yeah so i'll sign on terrible i talked to so i love to jewish also closure twenty french fries until you about it told you about jay talk at all time places. I'm glad to talk about it so if you'll they come talk to me you guaranteed me to coaching at some point in compensation and the conversation a bit of these other greens vitry thing because you push up founded eddie businesses a bit bored so you want to do and he's taking fights outside. We'll have the all all over like kipa. The time thompson showed up at the business. This is what could you stop. Doing you know saw almost could you start doing anyway. Yeah we don't for about twenty minutes and almost trying to actually trying to push them a little bit because they just need to live a notch and so we talked about in an ultra about instagram about putin a video out there and do sign the fog does just decays kit luxuries on was undergrad hammer. Do you can make you could you talk a five time now use mobile phone. The mobile phones is now their cameras than i actually we eventually abandon the cameras that were like five six of the quality ridiculously amazing wincing even finding five times more blog the fight. I tiger photographer teichmann so canal and his wife you stein. Is you take a million photos. Your photos are excellent. You know not the same as the grandparent. How long do you love it. Love it so you're going to do it. You can approach that. I'd like to see if you've gone crazy instagram on like it and i will never look on supported anyway. We went back and now with his wife. Come and i'm thinking about hi. This is lisa graham account not given so there's a post excuse <hes> the wolves to do it but <music>. I'm gonna tell him the equipment and could feel applied another twenty minutes weekdays nothing all i would probably seek week boom. I signed this crappy account. Do it to spread the account and that's how old coach them. Let's sit together so once thankful that first step you eliminate any excuse we the equipment because you don't need increments type is advise as you can stop because you could've gone on for you to solve you. Call this off the offer and it's not about perfection again and wants a conversation so that's worth so much bit. Lloyd can back to last week's episode but they use that perfection bay as an elegant generally believe it but it's an excuse to not to enact. I'm always trying to think for an episode of according segue into a prompt to your website but if i'm honest doubt need according with promotion because i think that example there is exactly what oh you do and i would strongly encourage anyone who wants support who's got dreams. He wants to get involved with stuff to go to the website. Say jane coaching tech for joe. Tena social media app jagan coaching tech getting contact because that real life example there is exactly what joe can do. You can really genuine open honest way help pew fructose. We all need to four hundred and it's a bad thing to lean on that. Joe's done this exact same thing th- making it does work and i think that's a brilliant example of what you do and that's more genuine rather than corny promotion for joseph eight genuinely does work and you know if you had the opportunity minutes with that mitchell short love another twenty minutes with literally anguish a social event on if that person maybe we did tend to slot say we'll you find out. Now is crazy account that scott this third. I've because sometimes we have excuses but you sometimes just need someone to sit with you through. They're not you need to feel the energy jake. You need to feel that confidence because you don't have the confidence. Sometimes you need someone who believes in you. You can do through <hes> and that's what are you going to feel that energy is going to come and it's going to be in you really hard and take them for yard at this was a hard enough like because it. It was just really around to do it so he's bush's that that prompt that support in the right direction so yeah so. How do you feel that you have a passion. National will push on that passion over pushed passion because i want you to win and i want you to express that things you can say this. Can't you going from your excuses this person's in the white top thing about excuses. I'm in a in a business this family butcher business. This is on a haven't got time to do the thing that i love for over really happy. They're ok but then they'll happy and the whole point is life. Life is war the famille tell you what mine is is to be happy and engaged why do and so coaching is thing that like snapple thing that pushes me and when i see people like celery that is what i love and so i will help you because that's well. He told me i want everybody in this planet to be doing the thing that i love you. I think i have to volley. We're in an age now where i really like that we have an excuse not to do thing and i'm very much on gary v's page with this way video and pace as an i love this and he gets he gets he gets misused from hunters. People sign hi karen help me out. I says i'm gonna resources and they're actually messaging him on instagram like on my often he says you you can make you can make something you can do something correct some content because context thing. This information is now. I don't think people are missing a massive thing. Photographic photography on instagram is huge and if you're good you will succeed you will win if your if you keep taking photographs that's the thing now the story i think about time about tech twenty piece of tight but tell me two thousand pictures that buffalo got backing episode with trade military under the tree. People look at saitama lot a really doubt that roy change it. We'll see i ain't now. That's how pigments tying with that okay. We gain feedback okay. We're getting rid. Excuse keep pushing and get so tiny that because we're gonna start living out baseline excuses well full of passionate ah join on something's really real and the aswin solve gives you a little bit of evidence that we know even when he'll doing this eisold doing the yoga lychee competitive about trying to get into spice where they did a lot of people holding back yeah but in what's by sometimes tongji duty to hold them in that space but there's a lot of the time when you can push them forward through the conversation question why you'll say you'll smack conversation in ugh. Oh real life example to give it a mini of not making since which again jared demonstrate that we practice what we pray chair. You say you'll thought said all right. Stop joe was saying. It's it's good to get your view. 'cause you're mean joe of a meat point. Third point in our careers wage your more with some of the stuff you're doing. You're more at the early stages. Were there but you know in year your someone. He's not afraid to put his hand up to say to do stuff. It doesn't come across his excuse. Make him uh-huh that something you've learned recently or that's always kind of who you've been yeah if i believe that i want to do it if i think that cavani behind the n._f._l. Thing that says you know a good positive aspect on it then. I'll i'll won't do it. It has no then off on the hosby rights rights to do what it is. However is someone wants my help to do something then i will more than the not try and give it to them because they oversee through. Will they need me to help. Push their idea through or whatever it is provided for help to their day provide knowledge. Whatever if that's something if i believe in it if i can give them the tools to make it happen then knocking believe in it later down the line than it's worth trying. I think the kind of going back to what people might mike they excuse of not having enough time. I think people think people will some people will oversee the too busy to stop a major project it. That's life united. Some people may may have that may have that position other people may be missed mixed proportion. That's and they may be considering the akon started because it will take too much time and i am so busy and they believe that they don't have enough time. They were genuine. They don't have enough time to do to this projects that this task or whatever you know the reason why they're making the mistake a man comes to them with the auditory however people i think people will use the excuse to be too busy because they want to be too busy they they. I want people to think that that too busy to start this project that makes sense because they feel that maybe no invested listed as mentioned but maybe they believe the it's hard to kind of articulate but they won't want to be involved because they don't believe in it is what we've discussed already however they may not want to be involved in. They make these use that too busy because they <hes> it becomes badge to wait. I mean i think people see the they success can be measured by helping to they are yeah yeah yeah that i think that's i'm trying to get more ground. You got to do something then you're not too busy. Eh what question while you're not too busy and foreign zo on realize us do you think do you think that people have this big thing. I wanted to the big project but you think that put other activities. He's in the white so employees big thing going on the newell source small things that aren't effective after to avoid doing the thing they think they know they need to do it but they do seles because there are things i think they can do it so the thing that i want to do your guy with the photography thing. I think that he awful. The mountain was too hard to climb so he thought these his busy so that's kind of point i was making. They want the bikes that too busy because that's let's get to commit to that dream. It doesn't become a reality show <hes>. It's not holding a conscious for they will think how can i get out of this. The east the union built defense mechanism. I will believe that isn't always excuse my no good. I said that he's quite calm into that would be the case basically something that you touched on okay. So do you think sometimes there is a sense of pride in being busy india and almost a fear of and say people not only will surround atoms sales in business because that's what i think they should be due to be seen to be doing things in eternity but i think i've seen people who judge of a people for not being busy and they nothing if you're in the situation where you have that it almost becomes you're putting yourself out in a federal position if you can be judged judged to not being busy enough and it just becomes it's quite destructive cycle and i saw a video irony watch couple minutes of it from honest or video and i think he was bill. You guys talking about he. Skates used is where he has nothing on because of the spanish talking about the level but this fallacy that i have to be busy over told him not doing their job so i was gonna say people think people people think that if they're not busy than not successful whereas in fact it's the opposite if you don't have anything i do is because you've you've been busy enough for the salt or the progress on occasion specially if you're in a leadership position <hes> as well with that ease if if you've empowered everyone to be able to do everything they're not so much. Someone on my first inspirations told me any good leaders job is to make themselves redundant the point. You'll you'll need anymore is when you've succeeded. Lee bow lovely sherman avenue leads for now you an off-duty should things but those types relationship if you that time is that spicy to have that reflection on site was the big a pitch because that's what leads you shouldn't be put out. Fallers ars on mission cultural business. It should be actually people as there should be a place. I need some as downtown to actually say what is the bigger picture. Now how come i actually improved rick allies. The people that are doing this job then your job now is to make an even better even outgrow you another bill gates place. He was saying see somebody's he's more valuable at someone in a position on this with various businesses passions association volt in is really important to schedule time for him to be. I think think because that thing can implanting can be a lot more valuable than getting volt not have busy work and everything just takes over joyce refunded. Almost contravenes shebeens are planning an action yeah so many but it's not really because when you think about when you go the big vision asian the action needs is that you're going to be. You're going to be planning to go. You're going to get in the action but then you could be a plan to make people's lives better think i think he said again he said and we told the planning which can she turn it into law killing back to the car of the lost episode where you plan so much nothing will prepare him and prepared. He's doing planning these preparing those moments yeah. I think that's bull prepare it that you prepare for something better be glider before last the busiest looking site how we might be species bets up having spent it for our people if you met the people more effective. This is going to be more effective. You'd be looking for market-leading things you shouldn't you should be looking at you almost like the front later. Boston must have rooting walks. What was what could happen and what your going to bring. It's going to be the concentrating. Oh you businesses trying to die so what was going to say about the culture you know looking at this particular thing that we hear about excuses already spanish tangent. He's thought thought to think gee think businesses on people are creating a culture a culture business because the judge may feel about that because also picked up my point. Is you not doing things you think. People are the same they don't busy. All this is. Do you think is a culture of if you're not lost in your shade with. You'll see in this budget doing that to <hes> c._d. Firefighting something do you think people are creating that called you because of that just because of the things about leaders maybe other colleagues even to some extent another thing that happens to an then law said chiefs mckinney becomes a self validation thing because he's always easy that's orderly kaposi sweet craving call mark or dinosaur thing where he talks about the amount of people want to criticize anemia and he critiques observers endures and he's you know to accuser full of people once got hardly any which is to do is and again if you're pointing fingers at other people if you'll being critical you shield in judgment from yourself and you know they don't they might suddenly everyone's looking at you know. They don't doing much janine. I think that becomes an infectious thing and i think you're exactly right. So how do we papa combat but i think this should be a pocus up. How so athlete is in that leadership position is going to be removed from that because in your rations operations is where all the action happen now have been but more personal pull personal and group. It's not really so people how do we how do you think we can start to undo the culture of business. What did you think of the first steps. You've taken to think to undo do that. Culture be really well in their role for instance nicholson's time that i got now can evolve lie even dip. You'll passing crap to their television. Pahlavi's you now spice yourself. How did you come to the culture of business. What would have used to take any steps in that direction gave him over philisophical on from that to not get too nitty gritty but i think the the the thing that causes as the difference between what wha- method and outcome i know see not to contracts of recip- before because it was not usage important journey went on say outcome. It's not about really being specific about exactly what that looks like but it's once again comey's ed looking at what that is and not really worrying for me like if i'm doing something you said to journeys really important and it's important actual steps going through to get to an outcome that is within the range of what i was looking for no gain ahead chocolate pretty specific bossing when you're managing a culture and you look at you create the culture or you're part of that coach each really important look what that coaches his achieves being ralph and then obsessing on the steps. It takes to get then so i think if you will if you've got people at work vitamin and you you give them something. You shouldn't be obsessed with everything they do to get there. It should be the outcome and if you get to the outcome and you look calm as anything getting there or you get to that exact say now come game removing those range parameters but you run into the ground on looking at the you'd say don't stress themselves out to get there must have a way of working wanted really obsessed with it but if you were to go in and look each day to die. I'm one person's quite calm did once frantic every you could make misjudgment. The judge is saying well that person who really committed look how much going for it caller kit at lazy when he's not even trying but actually if you take a step back and look what they're achieving in my own experience than is generally the one two run in service into the ground on actually producing the outcomes ones and again with everything did he call giving giving people space to work and it's all about the outcome ralph iii session on it and then love your sandwich from the thing is people start to think look happy today or yam everyti- me why they do stuff and you start to judge up a people's methods rather than value in people's outcomes and the things will have fans about getting these businesses that we work instead. You know no one wanted to wife is a couch and now try and touch. I won't those spices up women's development so they can tackle things. Getting excuse isn't as she was able to achieve. I've seen i've seen that when people start to have credit spice that spice filled up with stuff other people off achieving stop this put into the people that are actually come. We're we're going to get back to them but the problem is a break eventually yeah melissa steiner <unk> side of you and you credit from romney's mov you we do have those spices. We do have to get those pieces. He said let those have that breathing. Spy said to have that to carve out will bite one and how they will control what they're doing and be creative about so the challenges are having those more deeper conversations a night even so the effect that you would use use us to help others who might be frank j. high account you can use person abusive as these guys these recom- producing bets in the frontier was can we used instead of those models and get those people to help these people so give me love how those people do not develop what you try and deal with that and against very difficult davies by doing that you try and reverse that whole coach gernot judgement thing against the ownership things maybe thinking that he wouldn't talk to p._c. Necessity excuse so weiss ice eva what it's not my fault on maine's too busy and the ultra to making less busy or eights what it's their fault because they norway's busiest again it's always would projections thing and a big part of that culture thing and it comes back to talk about is what you what you wanna do is help understood okay but wake everyone off the more people taking ownership that are in actions the less they put judgment on twelve people the less people need to fear that judgments in the more they can focus on their own now comes in it becomes a positive solid comb ralph within the naked saw could food. You're going on. They schuman's we bill to defend ourselves sales. We have built <hes> hoyt from fear and they each really support people against now. He's toy poof. They talked to say nothing. That's part of that person past more businesses. We need to increase in business but also personal development wherever you love that sort of thing is making sure that you had that wait is actually might be built. This is what brian's thinking. How could i do that have not spice so if you're if you have a job or whatever and you do for frantic type type can talk much harm. What's the reasons are frantic. Is one in your culture is is it could be toxic. It could be if it easy addle ooh. I'm a tech tom apple cider before oil was pakeha boy down side. How how will crawl should the conscious about the excuses you put all jason is easy. I talked to coach. He's happening for reality or is it something you actually actually no because other people are succeeding walks succeeding and that's gonna find out what i won't stand. We'll talk about modeling people in wasn't so my group ribs or more coaching always can find models. I want to achieve something. I don't find that model that they're doing a thing that you want to do and go tech the bits of what the gives you can create your own model the reps you continue to improve and develop that and that stuff to get rid of the excuses because actually see someone else's save enough ratty running around how then it's possible you can eat a muscular people put view stunning so if you want to be gone soon the mosques oscar had what was it this is a trial as evidenced is something that he's done you. You could replicate. If someone's done the thing you can do. You can get the excuses guy. That's what you said about pick really believe it. They believe it. I think belief is the thing change your belief around it because we all the stories we tell ourselves if we believe we've got these legend legitimate excuses aw but what are you gonna do about it you all the king of your larry. I'm sorry thom one six six five six seven t until around changing that story fuel so giving you opportunities china being aware of your they got back to do more about the pocus but several way and it's and nothing's guy self awareness about your story. You're telling yourself can say the belief thing. I think what you said ryan well is your thing is right. I think a lot of people who believe from what they do. I also think needs a big part for people where it's their own belief in their ability to achieve <unk> outcome and again as soon as you haven't got that belief in yourself you use his out of it. Just wants a bench prosecutor again what we're doing. I think today's great sample so so what we do say for these these aren't we need a few days before they need to go out so there's chance to ryan to do his work that he does to make us not sound as bad atas we do sounds awesome up <hes> but to the scheduling more as we was a bit tricky and that's that's more on joe and me than roy india india bought we filled when filming slash record in a very different tone we normally do and i think he would have been very easy for us to say no. We don't have the time. I think to an extent. It's easy to make time for this because we do believe in it. She something we love doing but we've we jinked around things and i think he would have been easy to say no bashing. We're here and we're doing. It and it's going to happen because we didn't get into that. Which is i think he's exactly leave. Nothing we say if i'm not making excuses ah think recipes because we believe in it but we believe in it because we're going out there. We created this is only existed of our own state and i think because of us push ourselves into spiced spiced. Do stuff we believe in is inputs into space to have this crunch where we might not have had time but we haven't even feel the need to make excuse because we love what we're doing yeah but i didn't think it would be today because we went outside the normal times that we know we need this stuff but we found that toby happened because we do believe in control of foreign and it's all things oh excuse you something a couple of five a._m. This morning and there was a list of the previous week and there's a lot of things about me i don. I like it's on the cia is a lot of have to go. Ask yourself the ogilby sitting on that will have to dude this. Sal cannot fitness it even if i do. It's like if you can't do the whole thing. You should do something because once you've done something leash. You've done one thing yeah it could be just the one tweet it could be just a long video that keeps vice latitude few self that you do thing and then that credibly winter coats just just got this terrible problems in coming up with the associated broadband at that problem as well enveloping supplied. Oh i'd love the sketches greece struck with managed it but he's been a struggle back then it would have been easy to get into what i call do it but he found ways to make you happy yeah because you wanted to take to get back into the accountability upon a thing that we've spoken about before because we also can tell you about this the other week i think we all kind of law and each other to have this <hes> video posted record and you learn a video poker cost audit for you so i think the the fact that essentially we will rely on each other to be here means. It gives us an extra reason to not might actually. It's a really good point you're saying i think that's the way peop- i think you've touched on this before jay don for those people watching watching those people listening if you've got those ambitions bring people in collaboration makes things better up from a creative out perp bachelor once you're relying on someone wants several oh i knew say once you're in it together. It does create this extra layer by fashion and actually responsibility and i think it's a really it's a really powerful athol till the people can holidays yeah and even see if you can even if you see this video on youtube outside coming banal ichiyoshi video disciple you'll do it and as you had you were going to put your guy into because when you express it then you know always out there israel israel so we will say and we we will reply to that message so that's on and we'd like to see a response so you could use the content produced as pilots instagram refers his painting leeann email these rations of west meeting whatever web platform we talk about what you wanna do out there and have used that as your capital we will respond as long as you know in the future in fact you know we will give a shout <hes> think that'd be great and you could use content as a as an accountability we can become people geico accountability and you put out then you can put them. We can destroy now. I think i think is important to remember the. There's one thing in the world. There's been a success that somebody's what he's done by themselves. Whether that's a direct influence from somebody else aw somebody's taken inspiration from something else nobody has the i can think of tho of produce developed released and made a success anything in the world that hasn't been helped by somebody else at any any point whether you're creating a a c._d. You have to rely on somebody making that c._d. You have to rely on somebody buying that cd to make hugh success. There is no there is not one thing on the planet that is single handedly relied on by one person to be a success for us. People not not newspeople but you and i think also taps into things the u sign you. We'll see what i'm talking yeah but it was assigned about even if you didn't really believe in the thing that some was giving you still help you so give them the tokes folks jimmy you sit back and so on a big believer in something that actually you got up from where we don't care a lot fancy serving on the people. Do you want to see some weight and so you go some visual kaffee skills wrong. I think if photography's freezer world video copies go via word funnier. It's not a word ask before i mean is that on on gusau always love to serve and not hoping that we can help people excuse happened on the alton direction in order to have that backing up and you know you into people's success you get eliminate nexity activity. No more people are helping other people the less again your point fingers lex fees going on the lesson that judgment and all we can all create a positive culture. We want to the apart van. Let's say agree this love. This guy comes back. That's actually respond shooting but he's a true since kennedy. Some why is is that connects you with all of us. You know we experience. You wouldn't think a lot of people think our needs somebody. I don't need anybody to keep me on track. The whether directly or indirectly do either conscious or unconscious available. Maybe as i can come way there is something like it easy for me marlboro and stole engineers all uploading the platform that someone's creative for me to to the top ten you said went about creating accomplish this connection device that way down all you know this they they know we lost because we so rude that's it. I think that could be a whole other soap discussion. I think guy you can good for what did he say yeah and i think he sold around raisins again. It's like having a good enough reason of <unk> excuses. I mean your reason to things. There's got to be strong belief in your belief beefing up toward beefing up you'll believe in whatever you're doing and creating that framework so i gotta <hes> she's a lump. Two peoples belief not false belief of building on evidence. Oh i haven't done this on the guy with the photography. The evidence was <hes>. He's wife said to me. He takes five tug so he called site to me tight chrysler dealer because they resistance so i said we will wash it to me this fun toy title game excuse of not photos or not enough time because you've got time to nine <hes> to southeastern hallel. Let's hike over five minutes guys building those strengths of building the belief you signed on to actually start against bill. Sometimes you do need that candidate. Parnell the poll to push through those excuses for to help their biggest secrets advise. Tom terry crews on to help them was push this type of thing they want to see the books she's professor mortgage judge donate hip and he's taking that courage to to put out there outweigh onto you know my was my first. It was tim's virtual accountability pollen does took to millions of people look to that and i spoke to use that as more vehicle to stall again yeah inside and outside to get a cease. It was set your environment for it so they usually talk about say not. You'll want corporation things to solve hit your talent so for me of merced myself in success lot of video good videos. The fate of my social media all through the glove wants to hear from you. Gary v's have become more or less until surrounding around in myself with that type of environment that same songs munis load evidence that people can achieve the things. I want to achieve a tricking. Can you can achieve if you commit to them and that helps you one word. They cited triggers you. Are you know what i need. Don't do that thing because that's the things can kick me into action gets impovements massey so if you're out there and you won't show involves involves who knew history thing about what you know the <hes> education versus entertainment on down for me do won't down tandis auto loading yourself with the stuff. That's going to help evolved into stuff. That's not gonna be did you want to we also nicholas does not agree. Actually <hes> the guy that blaming you pulled together. Southwest is catching because we can make excuse unconsciously thankful to the busy time to the always just too big <hes> accom chunk it down. <hes> having confidence that seoul patterson side will pass million so you decided to to some neville. Oh you're taught the person that means if you decided the utah you created that created that person you can you can you come. I wouldn't be able when we come out. We talk we stopped programmed is because we've learned certain things and so we've learned things we cannot allow a lot of things we need to create the things you want to and that's how we gave you excuses was consummated creating a new and you can do that can build sola factual studies. John and i'll start off hanley sadly stuff and stuff like that as divided. It was just creating person. I've wanted to come away when i eyesight and cannot do coaching coaching and he had to make choices client now coach why have now palestinians are now custom announced on to build the evidence that i am coaching. I will do is talk about coaching that. We'll does that continues to build the evidence. I am a coach knows born coach income help hey hey hey i'm seeing how many of mass no muss gone through certain things that create you each wanted a a another guy bought two references. Gordon's is love it. He's craig's by so he went through a variety of autonomous. Check him out. He says he's gonna persona. Coking's gawking. He calls on that persona to like trade persons up. He says create he must also on the jordan is inspiration the whole to and he says i created me. I've cried for today. There's a lot of power in that that you can create the person you want to be stately in a realistic wholesome <hes> entity saying i have an i described his two people when i'm going to bet immature and then i have a work persona the i've crawled dover toy in the east me. Is it me so it's me but in were and are can shift so depending on whom in the room we've why tippety duino in what way from interacting with can tweak that person but it's a lot easier to consciously tweaked behavior and i'm looking at it as my work and and i do think anyone. I think he's a really good thing that he does that bossing anyone who wants to succeed in that way anyone environments where i asked to come across yet to learn behaviors. Thank you need those personas. You and it's a good way to sometimes detach yourself from his personal life of then how i look wouldn't recognize me behaviorally in work and actually people in work wouldn't behavior. We recognize me when i'm surrounded by people for my wife and i do have those two distinct stink things but it's all my work's staff each my learned behaviors and that's crofty the persona that the us event young jesse agenda saying the same thing. I think you the person that you want to be because you wanna pay professional image saying that out of what may allows louis isn't professional war doesn't mean you're unprofessional person. You need to be to create the impressions. Inspire people together get as we talked about this about belief a huge pall of gain anything not just in work. Anyway is gaining people's bullying but again people's boy in isabel have that person to do it no yeah and so might as book comic book math research but is it going to sign is really and certain spells news sports people there was gone. American football comes re successful. We should all listen to a podcast but he he basically was quite quat friend chicken. He is gang sufferings. He always a negative persona but he used it because he felt frantic but he took don't always going to be able to contain patients. It took jason from friday thirteenth because he was quite like he would react twenty. Things very calm like body. Cohen is a he needed that so when we stepped over the line on fulfill he become that person may tickets and so he would lock who let his performance body and that's look for me. That's like wow if you could show you how pap will mind can be and there's another guy who wants to talk about <hes> interesting on a guy. He's yes you the biggest win win so <hes> call came thing. He says we don't put my golf season. He says it becomes a different per user persona to become the president to embody the behaves he needs to deliver like when he goes into borderline massey lucie yozo charge multi-million-pound companies use losses a tricky to go right now in the room and this is one absolutely will again. It's important thing as we talked to our in a few weeks ago we went through the whole conscious multiple nut staff and only did have a toy way ah would sort of myself into my work person on the way to work on new going into new mexico needs gave and on the drive to work we get myself into that head space when his conscious competent state or new doing i knew i could do it but i had to push myself to and she's got to a stage where do it without a talk both people now but also to these conversations citations are not even aware of happened. People have saved. I'm you know i'm frames without work in work that they've seen me change changed. I'll be talking and from work and someone who will need to interact with and i'll turn to face him and they said literally turned my entire body. Language change speech patterns and almost an even aware of it. They said it back to me but again. It becomes one of those learn things i can tell you that because even though you will join episode of thing you also bringing authentic authentic self into it because your credit is for me to get back up and the swells also if you do get an article nothing i'm going. It always seemed to craig's kick some people from some some cloth like one so could it clicks smoke a signal. I mean he acts making finished talking point to get lucky to quiet sort of a <hes> west at that cricket he'll be the trick fell off. Play with sharon. Boys got two cuffs. That's a nice as such as you say you can say on. That's all per but decides example. Show hugh can change us and you are if you want you can build. I keep intrinsic if you are someone you if you want to do that thing you can do that. She's saying i'm not that sort person brooke yourself in your the fire district loving which will pass case cases and other white can well by truck wouldn't want people to get to to get really excuse me to a place and he's being places. Don't and that's another reason why do this. Y you ups young. Adult places and things is post district desperation. Commodity currencies gets that place desperate and that can you stories when you were not due to the ball. That makes you do stuff that for me was one of mine. It was either warm while the other with with me and that made me. That's what that's against the war thing. We want people to get to and that's why you know if you are and that's by getting that kenny but but that that lasts for four back you would you limit. That's the time to step forward yeah but that's the most hardest place to come from today's awesome session once you have the power took off. Even brittany talked about the reason why we do business talked about how this can give you some himself a couple of tips so wanted me to catch it be aware of it. All you blaming have cracks awesome excuses for yourself. <hes> let's talk about that. You know just make sure wherever take responsibility sure like this is one of so just typing small spooky for yours used to call that correct the person you wanna they. You've learned to be the person you all now. So whatever you can you can you go. You don't why long to old ways now. Age is about attitude and your willingness to be and the osprey talking about it is it is it is testament to that and i go. I do did <hes> enough of the patty e even though he successfully sanders yeah so he goes to expel excellent but he goes shows you that you can but it's not the outcome that joey tools and the journeys correcting acting that peasants you can get so why because then you can say before waking you up and you're not going to be knowing you need to love your wish. Don't not good that regret. Titanic should musty pool is the most important things but i would break down on this into responsible onset of being responsible response able response able so you have spoken to is an ability to response breakup response able to so in that way. If you keep on your mind you can spawn to be able to do the east and that's how we lost any fossil smilingly. I think you've hit it pretty well. I think they had enough of kids could even just talking fruit with give me some good stuff to same back to the people and hopefully it will help people to come stays barry's. I've got something to look into and ready to hope that your person took photography something that you know you can give them a few more gentle nausea of that game because it'll be nice to solve so for me. It would be exploring that so is a hat so saw coop should finish in napa. There's one thing activists. If you've so if you aren't doing all you talkin somebody's not doing the thing explore deeply why sidewalk trying to avoid the why question because we ask a question you get defensible. What was the reason what was the reason that didn't happen and he stole that deeply because there might be some things that have deepened. Things concise set up spice so really judge yet your absolutely saint type thompson his donald dell joy. You'll rapid story and then you then you can get into examining story and get into china story to some wanna they get washed. You shouldn't judge we want your judgment. Leave us your reviews levers. Comments listen to end listen t. o. n. across all platforms jovis jane coaching again. Would you say checkout. Joe's changed website. I think some really good example to stop. Joe can do for people in episodes here and we will see if you wanna get next week raleigh anything to find things things nine hundred subscribe to the youtube channel inspiration nation polka. Yes struggle with that. Yes yeah just keep keeps. John young keeps you going to say fun thing. You should do to me especially. I should catchy cost liner.

Joe instagram youtube harry craig melvin brian ryan gary v Tom terry lee kennedy roy jay don china roy c diabetes president barrie tripoli
Episode 497 - Paul Tierney

Marathon Talk

1:33:05 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 497 - Paul Tierney

"It's Wednesday the sentencing to July two thousand nineteen. I multi yelling. She's Angie Andrews and this is episode. Four hundred ninety seven of marathon talk nine on this week show. I'm joined by Angie in hosting show for the first time Tom's busy holidays tired from Snowden as some super falls running on the track from Charlie Greis new women's mile world record on a new women's marathon will record pushing triple buggy joined the charity five talents at the marathon for free care around the world is legendary you right Iran stand on the podium and I'm joined by the quite incredible wainwright Wayne right recording running pull teeny that should even be Wayne Record. Write Angie Andrus Raritan Talk. Thank you what a dream come true. Iceland showed in real life about that real person. The thing is different as well about the show this week is that we're actually sat next to each other regular listeners to the show Maino Termini sometimes sit next weekend about he needs all the way up up in sunny harrogate an I live all the way down in pole but Angeles even further away in Newcastle. She's dining pool because we're doing little writing stint together being fancy because we've got book that we're doing so that's hence you down here and hence we thought we'd present the show Kinda just say when thome does this with you. I've seen pictures of you with we haven't got I am Eh yeah so you're really small chair. Because the last time I was here I was made on a box and so I said I need to have a chair and I was given a children's chairs switched very noble of USA. Thank you questions the Chad very right now. Normally you may have seen our social media more by that laters improved slightly. Since Tom and I were flag shipping the way that's because typically Angie Angie looks after twitter the Graham the ground now we're new on the ground for us so look that's been that's been great. You may know the name Butt Naked Voice and here I am still been trying to do some social media stuff today even while been writing but it is hard we've been up to two typically. We kick off the show where Thomas I right so what you've been doing so gee what we've been doing yes so I'm going to work backwards so swimming to see up for the first time in my adult life in this country so thanks I was dragged in yeah. I've swum in the see on holiday. Only once I think about five years ago and be dragged then as well but yeah today's quite an experience and you've left until afterwards to tell me that those jellyfish of massive jam by so the big Joe Spine size never thought about this pre swimming tender by the message jellyfish the size of a barrel that code a barrel jellyfish for a reason. It's like swimming into an empty spin yeah so the quite big and quite scary so would not have gotten if I'd known about that yeah but thank you it was it was it was nice experience and just wanted after a long day more by running been doing any yeah so all my train and in the last probably four and a half five weeks as being different and you've been given me quite a lot of guidance and doing things I wouldn't know shoes. Yes specific section well five K. K.. Yes so I've I've always ran. I don't know why this is all of workout uptown. I've always run time and every workout. You've given me ball. One has been distance really really loved it with the exception of warn meltdown that I had it every really really enjoyed a think. I'm used to write in sessions and workouts for the people super you to give me once for me to do was was really really fun. I think I've really enjoyed on track eighteen fun on when it's over the so the thing with running for distances you can't really hide and when you run for time you can go on your five minute rep or whatever you do five minutes and you can choose to ignore fast ostiense. When you've got a specific distance you just can't hide from the pace running so obvious particularly important thing when you doing something like striving for another we bang on on the share bad process the small meaningful steps that you take as part of engaging with that process some of them are going to be? I'M GONNA do specific session. I WANNA run a specific time or specific distance an in most of those sessions you've been doing focusing on okay. I need to cover certain distance in a certain time and try and be consistent with how how many are can do to good way and you are at the task muster with that because quite often. I'll send undo session in fuel really pleased with engineer. Pick the one rep the run slower than what happened there wearing you got your high heels on but yet it's because the focus of the session is is on consistency. Some of the Times people get that Rome. They go well. I'm going to do auditor I re- really well and then you know doors blew apart fell apart the last week sessions not by doing three well. It's about doing all of them. Yeah have really enjoyed the process at that and in the middle of all this in the last longer track session did last week. I did get a one Colombina P._B._S.. Well coming right in the middle of all so yeah some trusting the process well. I was sitting around on the track last this week. I told you buy strove this since pictures grumbly Achilles so it's been quite gentle in one way to it's worn it feels I too because if all of the content go out of this does too yeah so I did a couple of like testing the activities runs in the week and it was actually a woman big heavy trainers a woman special support shoes yet yeah junkies but did when Edgy chunky shoes they just give a bit more support Awry Michalis. Just you know I made sure the pacers with steady in really controlled and then so today or what is it Monday today when Liz and we did nine point nine nine miles so that eh mildly annoying you shared that as a tweet and you've probably the most popular tweet because people see in that it was nine point nine nine miles unable to that you didn't go back out a feat to them. Straw that people like no does nothing my o._C._D.. And I think when I used to Kagmi miles in the week that would have been significant in art have been like aw in my mind I can ran out to ten miles an action. It's no different physically physiologically from running ten miles. It's only you get bothered by the point zero one of a mile but now I'm not so beloved. Although I did think I'd run was going to ask well aunt she stopped the watts across the road at ten miles but Straw must've robbed me groped you go out and do point zero one moral. I did a nice long run on Sunday. Actually somewhere never never run before and mine was because somebody had been constantly post pictures of this beautiful place called reservoir which a lot of northeast listeners will know and it's it's a lot of road around it and then a little bit of trails it was a nice Russell makes and it was exactly ten miles and I did run not exactly ten but it was just beautiful really nice quiet scenery and yet felt we got most beautiful. This is an amazing competition. I'm really pleased about this because a few few years in a row I went I with the charity five talent to do terrific work in Kenya Uganda Tanzania particularly particularly with helping communities learn more about it had to stop very small businesses run them successfully empower the people in their communities full just being more sensible saving together learning how to manage what for us is a relatively small amount of money through starting up new businesses but images community changing and we didn't go to Kenya in <hes> twin. I didn't go last year but this year we're GONNA do fantastic weekend in October five talent of organized for a weekend at the Eden Project One of the five times trustees is the amazing golden seabright in golden has offering. He's also the C._E._O.. Of You've eaten projecting Gordon is offering a off that hours private tool of the Eden project by owns is GonNa be fantastic his the idea the idea is five talents along with Bernard rotate who lives in in Kenya and has done the marathon twice when we've been at to run <hes> he's GonNa come across to the U._K.. And go down to the project and you will get if you come along to this weekend go run with me and Bernard and probably we might drop aw pain to eat and project the park run in the morning of Saturday at twelve of October. This weekend starts on Friday the eleventh of October you get so you'll race entry to the half all the full marathon the Eden project marathon which is on Sunday the truth of October. You'll get two nights accommodation onsite at the Eden Project and Ugali Golly and Pastor Party before the race then me and Kenyan marathon runner Bernard we'll be there. Bernard is one both Dublin. 'em Belfast if we go along to eat in park run in the morning. It's going to be fun to see yeah that gets a record day. It's going to be fun really good fun now. The best news of all with this is completely free so you get to come down to all of this is this is a competition for we think probably thirty to forty people that will be randomly selected from those who enter the competition to secure that two nights accommodation at the project the private toll of the biofilms at Needham project to meet and C._E._O.. Gordon Seabright to meet the team at five ten minutes ago for Ron with me but Bernard and their entry into the project marathon and a couple of of Ugandan past the party's afterwards now we will put a link to the entry which is five talent dot Org Dot U._k.. Forward Slash Eden on this this week's show notes from everybody who enters this is a fundraiser for five talents so in order to get your entry com everything around the weekend completely free a you'll goal is to try and raise over five five thousand over five hundred pounds for five talents and this is the helping literacy savings and loan programs to more rural communities across Kenya and to help people dead set up and grow small businesses so that they can meet that basic needs neces- stain ability with dignity and public five five ten dot Org Doc U._k.. Register I think it's just an email address to register for your place in the competition. Commit to fundraising five hundred pounds and your place stunning weekend on Friday the eleven Saturday twelve and Sunday the thirteenth of October will be completely free about that sounds awesome the so much in not our love to do so. I'm going to ask when you go. You're going to have to take lots of really nice pictures. Because of course you are now on the ground the GRANDMAS yeah now that I've told you even how do you stories there will be no excuse as we are now on Instagram at marathon talk and we have marginally more followers than you so can we keep going without because at lovers hit two thousand before you do so recently our instagram activity of always been there but we've been pictures and you can find instagram dot com forward slash marathon talk and we're using the Hashtag Martha talk and trust the process thank you to those listens issue Papa John's Patriots Pledge Their support for the sheriff he likely we do and you would like to support us them. Please check out this. Week's shared arts right on my favorite parts of the show for the COP likeness that we do get innocuous around the world shots each week listening send in photos of themselves flashing their super cool canton exotic locations for the moment. If you've got a picture send it to info at marathon to dot com but in the next a few weeks he's going to be changing. Yes we're going to be asking people to tag them pictures on instagram or on twitter using the Hashtag kit around the world at marathon talk and we're going to be sharing them on the Graham instead so they'll be each week. I'll create a post that hasn't attend kit round the world pictures will do that. We instead and I think that wave people might see a bit more as well. What oven just meeting toil making your way? People send you describing them was wrong. We can describe Martyn Gray here he is his recall is a picture of my balcony on holiday in our forever Portugal. Sarah Art of your success was extremely helpful regarding sizes during our correspondents respondents issued a question to pick her website. Did she go to go it takes I decided against the cock leg and tried to look relatively professional. You do confessional why particularly like Martin tiny persons on you and also I think we call really tell the I think he might be wearing jeans. Nothing cocked likeness just gets ruined by j.j yeah but so he looks very cool I would say he probably needs to smile a bit less but it does very professional does smile. Never I love this. This is Phil Goodwin. Please find touch my submission no kidding around the world from the home of I in my lanzarote report del Carmen pausing here. My classic blue is the New Black T. shirt and a slightly cop leg. Not at all embarrassed children are in the backgrounding sees kids. They're just look at take a look at going. I really my wife is promised me I'm allowed to compete in the name and distance race once they're old enough to not need to be afterward. Oh go out on long train rights so hopefully revisit in the knock to you distant future and she will get Nice holiday out of it as well well done Phil. I'm going to give you eat out of ten because it's all good apart from the length of the shorts. I feel like too long yeah a little bit too long absolutely yeah but they give the extra points just because they are mortified. Joe Grewcock detaches a photo of me in front of Magnus Cathedral in Kirk will orkney the day off of running magnus marathon. Look Sarah from of your Scampi. Sarah very comedy source me this lovely ice blue t-shirt in extra small as the size and the cut off those available here. She says pitching here day following the races sunny woman calm com on the horrendous high winds day the previous day thing off the past typical couldn't agree more. She says with the sentiment of my trust the process T._N._N.. looker that some Magnus Cathedral stunning Teasha to I've seen that Colorado to really nice kind of almost gray one. I'm actually wearing mine. Currently dark blue chips chiltern next nicer really Nice Picture Roger Walters Ripple Rock. Tell you what people get eh places. You've never heard known record. Never you must've heard a ripple wrong no that the KUMBLE must've been to river rock. I really just Campbell River biking trail run to viewpoint across straight from Quadra island hand on hip but shame about the skull quite agree looked pretty miserable our record that he's got whoever to take the picture say that to nest. That's a Jitney take it. Isn't it scale which is going to do this. One picture in that ain't GonNa cut my leg but what a lovely background that is probably my favorite photograph this review wearing your around the world Dan shop please attach Shmaya photo. Take him a wonderful holiday near Pretoria guitarist in Cyprus the valley stay that was one hundred and fifty meters about sea levels of all of my runs in thirty four degrees see this. Is that hot. Tom have resulted in complete detonation running back up the hill he says I hope you appreciate my trust. The process motto pose in front of the poll on it system out you're right and I really love about this is leaning on kind of like glass partition but the Pos looks like he's got a really good arm pose as well as the leg pos going on and yeah good legs backward lean yet court piety very good road yet good show length and just staring at the distance is just Boban. If you've got those t shirts pop along to art of your success dot com to bag yourself a trust the process to take a picture serve yourself looking silly somewhere around the world in this week's fantastic marathon to open this is facebook Friday last week so even mountain talk into Holi suggested that John Kelly the cheek of the girl that he might have just completed completed the grand grand if he'd only had a pull pine I might have also runny CEPA five have run my own sub five minute mile. If my Achilles it beheaded itself so it last week facebook Friday we asked you what have you almost done. If you'd only remembered to on some good really good ones on here a really like this one hour Hannah lease I would have been so much faster if I remember a girl a few more inches John Tuffah ibis three hour marathon runner. If only I remember to do more pastries let to freeze do more training eight less pastries and drank beer likes bikes on that. I think a lot of people agree with John and Paul Comrade. We've all been here echoed. Only I could've run better. If only I remembered. I'm really forty eight not twenty-eight Lisa Harriet my we have got decent timer this marathon. If I hadn't been shared office with someone with a cold and Gary Oldman could have gotten even Festa time London they say if I remember drink more on the way round and not get crab rolling rolling is Emoji at the end of that one pool and finally pool and Disin- If I'd have remembered Spanish would have had to hold a coup for nine hours of running ain't doing the Harir entre by reading their website properly and tastic oh well. It's time to raise around. All you have to do to read your round is used the Hashtag rate your run on social media and you will feature on our rate your run social wool now. This is something we're also going to be doing on the ground. Yeah I start to do a little bit of this weekend. So if people share a run new target Morrison talk on the Graham and the use hashtag great runner will usually say that and share that have that as a story and now you know how to use stories consumed stunned that and so yet don't be there and often re tweet him on twitter as well greater this week rate your runners. James mclachlan wendover woods one hundred what a fantastic rate one hundred miles. Six thousand eight hundred meters of climbing great volunteers one of only three hundred miles in a day buckles is my nice look at Bucko ten ten buckle thing Kyle Luke cell of this one marathon talk took a page from the Brian Brian Williams train in book. I needed a vertical and long run so seven eight miles included running a two mile hill loop six times learning from the stars Roy Williams Williams Liam's Anthony Mikhail Hashtag right Iran snowdonia trail marathon a birthday present from the wife. Hang on. Yes guys you know the guilty party. It was decided I should step out of My Comfort Zone in my fiftieth time of six hours and twenty minutes on completely different terrain and I covered nearly twenty eight miles well done and caroline cousin run seven Hashtag run ten mile today ten mile day on a hilly route and I don't usually do hills absolutely looked at Smiley face thanks to mark and sub for with me eight out of ten. What are we can we had for for sport is the cricket? That was a great game. Not I worked all of it. I didn't see any of it. I don't understand but last little bit. It was also Wimbledon within you know what I didn't watch any Wimbledon. Nothing I watched nothing. Yeah didn't even watch one. Was it cold hit beefing outfield. We've been on your crazy company. We end up so no mistaken. Yeah absolutely zero television was walked resisting kind of come back and you have to catch up on everything and one of the things that we caught up on was the Diamond League in Monaco. Yes super speedy times in the Brits to DC. Charlie Greis come forth on the all time British fifteen hundred laced a loved his tweet. He tweeted the crazy night in Monaco. Go forth on the U._K.. Fifteen hundred time list while Breen Wean Explosion Emoji Hashtag rice grind and he's listed there the previous times before him so number one foreign Baotou Steve Cram three-set cool and then he's just nicey sandwich himself before Stevo vet and faith and Vernon three thirty sixty two thousand vines epic absolutely amazing see in a <hes> Charlie running three thirty point six brilliantly overtaking only Stevo vet in the U._k.. All Time Lisp Eclipsing Stevo Vets Brighton in Hove. I think could be Phoenix one of the other of his club records. I didn't know I think during the same clavell blobel they weren't saying club so it's always important to beat someone's club-record Zabit Light Liz always being able to beat any polls records and thinking that every forever and ever seventy you do one oh seventeen sixty two well done with pumped a video of his amazing finish on the on from his twitter and that's going to be in the shore north of people in that same race Norwegian Jakko Ingebrigtsen brilliant brilliant sure video which worked on let's run where Engebretsen says the the other guys didn't come here to run fast as you saw and he says all. I didn't come here to run slow. He's only eighteen. He didn't share any fear <unk> back. Leon wasn't afraid to take the lead from Timothy Charrier at twelve hundred meters before having just the settled for second. It was quite sprint finish than home straight Yaakob but didn't liked it. The other guys didn't want to run fast so he took things in his own hands say let's run somebody taking things into her own. Hands was sy- Fan Hasaan who clocked an incredible for twelve for a new women's mile world record in a quite amazing negative split Laura Whiteman was second she second on the show it was yeah and it was a new P._b.. For her for the mile which was four seventy in six ahead <hes> I love the quarter put into she spoke athletics weekly straight after she said I just though get your head down run as hard as you can and should definitely did thought I am wrote a few times with Laura inches fantastic and she's really she's just really feels like committed. All at the minute is running really really well so weldon. Laura and I think Hasaan one by five seconds two miles ahead by great run from Norway <unk>. Laura Mira also ran well. She ran in a Andrew Metoo P._B.. She said but she clocked one fifty eight forty two sub to as well from Lindsey shop she ran one fifty eight seventy six and just jarred was over a winning the gold in the five thousand meters of University Championships in sticking with the yeah English schools this weekend fell couldn't keep up with that started watching hates on Friday and and have a bit of a personal interest in this or as a saying Dale still think of him as being a little boy. He's actually sixteen Henry Johnson who runs in Harriers was ruined in the fifteen hundred and he would his eat on Friday to qualify qualify for the finals on Saturday but just felt like this just so much action on the English. I'd love to watch it just trying to follow it. Online just felt but impossible because I'm so vested in Henry Watching Henry's race that are fairly just just just action all all the time makes it really exciting. No some really good results from open common athletes and as well with the weekend was the under twenty three European championships Israel Jimmy Rica now. I think it could be wrong but I think Gimme Reiki trains with lower MIA pretty certain mu I'm going to be ruled out by that. I think they might trained together certainly be coached by the same coach in Scotland and Jemma Ricky fifteen hundred and the eight hundred and she got both golds in the European under twenty three championship saying afterwards walked Amal to McDonald's and garment flurry and now the sleep until the under diamond league so they sweep and ahead of got their anniversary games in London which are new laces go does Goldie Sayers and Liz shedding apartment Hartman in the Beijing two thousand Olympic Games and Goldie <HES> was full in in Beijing but you to doping violations by the Russian athletes. <hes> Goldie was upgraded in medals so she's going to pick up her Olympic bronze medal fantastic. They've also announced today on on athletics weekly that I'll be legends really don't out surveys. Obviously I'll be there. This is what I'm building full. Maybe that's this is going yeah. She's GonNa Share Man Yeah Yeah. This is going to be twenty. Well known people taking part in its athletes Paralympian lesbians and some celebrities wells so do we know her father running. I've redbird severe and this one is by one hundred but I'm not sure what other events will be taken place so we'll have to check that out. Do you think you'll be as good as the strove. A mile definitely GONNA be chased by Rosemary in an orange signal. I think thank you will be the same people joe. Domain isn't going to be calling Jackson. The people that would be those athletic meets anyway possibly could be. I know there's a few celebrities that they've announced today. Anita reread actually sleep. Does the field where you go. That's quite interesting. I'm going to have to talk about bums at run very fast so we we said on the star of the show this week that is in new women's marathon will record and we weren't kidding but this time it's been run by Cynthia aren't of Montana who ran twenty six point two miles math distance. She's thirty five. He ran the Masuda the marathoning three hours eleven while while pushing three cates in a buggy now you'd think well okay. How old were the kids like little dots three triplets six months old ten months old factor life would be carnage? If the case you wouldn't run through American nonetheless is a six year old a four year old and a one euro sparky and she goes and runs three eleven for a marathon is not much about this marathon to the courses like downhill away must be seven twenty pace yeah so not things is I'll tell you is a long time right for three kids to see a stroller yet. Do you think you could sit in the push you at seven twenty years now brilliant. I would love to do a marathon. Three eleven. Yeah that'd be great from is impressive though because it's we think it's a bow. Her kids combined to a weight of about one hundred thirty pounds. What's that English money in kilograms really nil ten stone? It's quite a lot yeah which brings if you include a buggy about one hundred eighty five pounds say runner's World USA when you take the weight of the stroller into account. I wonder how much practice today like come on cates. We're going now from the twenty miles feed him yeah. Give him snacks. Yeah Not Mova make sure that not whether big so the one year old because it could have been a disaster but she was training with him she goes massive trickle buggy as well not. I do know a woman who lives in pool who's got triplets and who runs the trickle Bucky into seven twenty pace training yeah raise. This Cindy Arnold is going to have this lady not GonNa Doors J.. Komo news these legends doing this Lincoln's really tell me the legends names all the Nigerians but I've got you asked me celebrities. Come on this quick so the celebrities are former model. I'm running enthusiast now. mckendry now get celebrity status latest broadcaster Charlie Webster Demartin Louis. Oh yeah from any money well. He's a big further to this. That's the three that are included. I don't know that twenty legends how how many of them are athletic legends or Television Ledge. Should we stick religions. Show we stick with legends and do the listening please this time of the year. The listener podium is relatively quiet because as you see in the launch pad that isn't that not much going onto is very quiet this week with just two people one man and one woman topping the podium and this week why don't we start with the women case so Jillian Mikhail who ran the Snowdonia trade trail orthon anytime six hours fifty five nine seconds and Jillions as it was a great event stove stunning scene repast the time curing climb over styles that longest Q. was seven minutes our crump wait nothing enjoy just trotting along take picks and soaking up the day although the Welsh have different marathon distances as I nearly ran twenty eight miles an is dead on costs big somewhere Terry Whittington talks the men's podium on this week math and toke listener podium also the Snowdonia trail marathon where he ran seven hours fifty one minutes and six seconds ouch ouch out terry toughest race. I've done incredible scenery but what a challenge if you mishaps an unintended details Obama extra when he doing that kind of challenge who cares he says for a week at center box folks well. Tom Terry Mollison talk podium last last couple of weeks ago. Pull tyranny who's this week's math and talk guest finished an unbelievable running challenge two hundred fourteen peaks three hundred eighteen miles thirty six thousand meters of a sent pool ran the fastest known time for all of Alfred wainwright peaks in the Lake district quite what remarkable run ten a little bit more about that and why why and how did it pull joins us on the show welcome to marathon talk. I'm on thanks for having me. I mean I'm looking like I've run in the late the district and I love it. You know being away I on the fails particularly my own you know love it but when I get back because I don't live leaving a living dosage don't live there. I didn't do a little run. Run Rans Health Ellen recently when it got back could walk for bye week because I- lakes are just Bologne to smithereens nee you are like having just run this unbelievable unbelievable record for the way mice yeah well. I suppose <hes> it helps living here and any Ron I do around here is is on the hill so quickly really do built up a resistance that kind of muscle damage. I guess so <hes> yeah there's a big advantage living Aaron and none Dorset so <hes> that's probably one of the reasons you you're a bit sore when you come up and you probably blast around Melville and as well in our whatever and that's probably the other reason I'm so desperately ruined. I'm hoping that you're about to tell me in the next chat that we have often arrow so that it ruined a youtube but before we do that you live in living in embassies Rambo side. Is that live just just on the road to win win Namara so it's quite close yeah we've been there and so I moved over here in two thousand fourteen in fact I lived here for a year before that in two thousand thirteen and then I went back to my job in the police for about ten months and then I managed to get a career break and moved in October over two thousand fourteen. I've been here since wasn't there because I I came to the next to do a raise. Call eight hundred which is really popular is now. It's probably the most popular undermining the in the country so I I want the ones are quite a few times but messed it up and one of them of the twice and I've been stirred second so I've just had a bit of a checkered pass it up but it's a great event and that's what got me to come in the first place and then enjoyed it so much I did it that I resolved to kind of. Hopefully move here. You know quite soon after that so it took me about another year to get over but I'm managed just like anyone who's been here knows anyone who's into the outdoors and has been delayed still usually it's like a Lotta I fell in love with the base amid a made a lot of friends in the first year and join the local felony club and it just went from there and I met my partner that just before actually moved here happen to be the case at her. Mom's side of the family were from windermere so well. There's a bit of luck yeah good reason I guess yeah so <hes> <hes> it it it just everything pace them. I just have you know I don't know where we're GONNA end up because we love our as well obviously where I grew up in arms grade and Sarah's love loving in Ireland for the ten months we were there but it's more community of the history of federal air that it's very very hard to tears away from that because it's just such a great spot for for that type thing and it's the home of it you know so it's a tennis where over the listening I tell us a little bit. A bags Alfred wainwright so what's known as the WAINWRIGHT's Wean rights. Give give galleons a little bit of a history okay so am I probably should know more about outfit ran right than I do but he erode guidebooks to the local fells 'em when he categorize them based on where they were so that was the book of the central cells North Northern Fellas Far Eastern felt etcetera etcetera and he they were really they're lovely books like he did illustrations for each each separate fail and all the Pencil drawing illustrations on they exactly as the really really nice books and they came out I think in the sixties and seventies them so they've been around quite a while to know and the such detail you know about all the the different silos and so they were really popular and you know in the days before the Internet when you could just go on and Google these spaces and they were probably an absolute godsend to people who wanted to to walk in the fellows so they became really really popular and he didn't <hes> he just picked the fellas based on his own set a guideline so whatever fella light was included in the book so it's not all the fellas and electric but it's it's a quite a lot of them and it usually was based on how good of you you had from the top or something like that so he two hundred fourteen in in these seven different books and what happened after that was people started two to walk away and right so they would try and take off all the the two hundred fourteen wainwright's usually did it all over the course of a number of years are maybe in one year over the course of a lifetime so if taking yeah taking the WAINWRIGHT's off in a lifetime. Is You know that's an achievement right yeah well. It's something something that people that strive to do and I think like a few let me. Are you know it's taken me tortillas or whatever like if you're driving up and down to the Lake district every few weeks to to take off a few it does take out time doing it that way so <hes> if you can knock off a massive chunks won't go is a bit easier probably because yeah it's just the you drive to one area and you gotTa do a few Fez and then you've got to get back to your car. It's just it it does take a long time when you do it and like Sarah's Granddad walked them them as they as the books were coming so basically so he was trying to take them off and so you know people of that generation it was the books that they they had and it's all different though I guess you know you can them so much stuff online <hes> but the but the books have remained them books really really iconic they really into fell walking or running the coast to coast and lake fails are just a stunning legacy of wainwright in running terms. I guess it was just Neyla who well back in nineteen eighty-seven rand seven days one hour and twenty five minutes and of course Joss I think link was there recently fee for your run in his just the the icon of Lake district fell running and then of course Steve Birkenshaw ran six days thirteen hours in one minute in in twenty fourteen so like what is it about this particular challenge running all wainwright's as quickly as you possibly can because his running them there's completing completing them isn't there there's running them and running them all as quickly as you possibly can quite different things. What is it attracted you to the last thing well judge just before answer that I might as well just say that the before Senator Alan Heaton did it the year before him an Allen didn't know about nine days unjust came along and I think I think they had kind of thing where Alan Heaton would do a challenge and then just will come on embiid quite quickly afterward so I'm before Alan Heaton? Actually there was a member of the name of Chris planned whose son actually met the other day in Keswick <hes> <hes> he he did. I tried to do it but he tried to do it a book per day so he would take one of land rights books and trying to all the fellows in that particular book and that was a very it was much harder way to do it because if you just discount straying join up all the fails as you see them you can make better route so <unk>. Dan Snyder and Steve Birkenshaw did so <hes> I guess the reason why I wanted to try it is because it's something that was right on the edge of my capabilities I guess are limits <hes> and it. It's something local so it's something I could train far very very specifically. I'm Living Eric and get out on the different sections of course and try them out <hes> so because of of what Steve Days I mean that was quite inspiration to me. I wasn't aware of it when I was four years of age when when <hes>. Adjusts NATO is doing his so you know I knew nothing about the Lake district obviously that stage and when Steve did it because I was running in the fellows by then it it just really inspired me the you know I I am the way suffered and the the the the crowds that were there to the community of people that that together and helped him it was just really inspiring to see and <hes> you know I I like doing long raises in challenges like this like seeing if I can actually do it I don't you know you're going to something like this. Not Knowing if you're even going to complete it so it's not like him. You know along classic federal was or whatever you generally you're gonNA get rounded in. It's just about how quick you do it or even above Graham you know if you've got decent fitness and a little bit of them. Lock with the weather in whatever then you should get rounded but but the way in rice was different unum any because it's so long it's like a week long so much that can go wrong. M M begin those so much that can hangar wrong like ms lot of uncertainty have much of of of kind of the important planning. Did you do beforehand. 'em was so quite a lot of planning involved allowed. I'm not keen on that side of things and that was definitely one of the downsides to to this whole thing was that it was going to require a lot of 'em logistics and planning before and then I had no chance if I I try and do as much as it could and I had a lot of help so I've been mackenzie runs with humbles A._C.. And he was probably more psyched about this whole thing than I was when I when I mentioned I was doing it. He was just on it straightaway. You know he was like right. Let's go get wrecking. Let's look at the root see if we can improve thieves wrote and I I was getting what's up messages every day. You know saying all you need to check out this line enough. FEM fell. I think Steve Maybe didn't take the optimal route and we could have joined up different fellow before you did that one and all this stuff and an hour later you'd get text back saying scrap that actually that was rubbish. Steve was writing and we took Steve's Steve Route pretty much yeah it was almost to the two totally the same does definitely some little tricks Dixon changes put them it was just a case of it would have taken I I'm not like Stephen in being such good navigator and operator and he spent a lot of time coming up with that route and that there's a whole other ton of work that I really didn't want to have to do because I didn't think I would come up with a better route anyway so I decided uses road and I'm just get wrecking to head. Is it actually work around the <hes> <unk> the logistics and you know had much of it did he do on your own high relying on other people are you in. How does it work from when you you leave Kazic any then go A.? Okay right I'm off. What is it like well so it it involved never on my own at any point and power to the reason for that was too so that people could verify who is doing whatever saying I was doing but the other excite of it was that all I had to concentrate on one foot in front of the other keep moving? My Kit was carried by them a pacing phaser someone else navigated for me a new big sections of the route anyway but I didn't want to have to mentally <hes> you know deal with that side of things not breeding and I'm wondering where we on the right lane or whatever I what we did was we made sure that I say the Western fellows we local guys who lived over near those fellows who knew the back of the hand so that we did enough to worry about them that side of things because obviously when the weather's bad or tag is down you know it's it's not like it's true. You've got to find your own ways and so I did. I had to Distri Pacers per leg twenty four legs so they're varied from like ten K.. A up to forty in distance them generally have to treat people with me now that changed over the course of the run because if I had pacers down doubt man starting at nine pm and I was slightly late then some of them you know maybe had at different times. They may be at work on the next morning and couldn't do it or you know whatever reason so it was a constant yeah you you should Janine people to run with you ooh time so all those all those six days <hes> actually how much time was spent running moving sleeping eating. What was the yet risk it? It was probably <hes> sleeping anyway no more than two hours per twenty four hours a record. 'EM <UNK> two hours every twenty four hours roughly fleet. No it probably wasn't even that because I was them struggling to stay when when it did lead on the outside on average maybe two hours the the stops obviously so each time he came to the end of leg might sit down have something to A._J.. Shoes we really careful about making sure didn't get too many blisters because that's what happens to Steve his feet really suffered in that slowed down a bit. 'EM So you were having small stops at the end of each leg but you're having long sections where you know seven eight hours where you were moving all the time in trying to to take off the fellas that were on that particular leg so <hes> it just it. It was constantly on but when you got to like one or two A._M.. And you've got to the last leg of the day you would have a kind of an extended breaks a two to three hours. Stop Two hours at hopefully were sleep deepen then maybe an hour of you know messing about with kid and getting something to ease and getting into bed and all that stuff so just to stick with the sleep bit I wanna come back here to some of the root bits and you know some the more challenging aspects of the fellows that you you navigated rand but the sleep alone six days six hours and five minutes it took you a Kinda wish take any one more minute pull. We'll just medical symmetry. We've been really uncomfortable but all these all these people who believe in our superstitious that did think I think it was something like two hours really is nothing now to out. You know there's no sleep two hours for one day in K.. Two hours to <hes> okay two hours off the running for three days. It starts to get a serious not because you've been so lumber but just because you haven't had the sleep in like how do you how did you cope with such little sleep. Well first of all. I'd say it's not recommended commended because it was pretty are a little but I think when you start doing stuff like this and you know the because there's lots of stuff that take endurance <hes> challenges in events and racists that do actually take up to seventy longer. You know things exist when you start look around like the even the world adventure racing champs. That's like usually seven day thing and so people can do it. You know it's been done before. Ah You rely on like almost no sleep in for for days and but if you get even twenty minutes you know rest when you're on your last legs and you feel like you're going to follow over and just go to sleep there and then if you get just twenty minutes that can really help an it's strange you wouldn't think so you when you wake up after twenty minutes you feel a bit groggy and knackered but when you get moving again it's as if you had four or five hours sleep and that well sometimes it doesn't always work that way but you'd be surprised how little sleep you need and the thing is it does have an impact then on us as days go on I mean there's probably a finite among today's where you can actually manage to do that without doing some serious damage but <hes> certainly while while doing that challenge you can maybe just not push true in survive and when you get to the end and you stop close to those limits. Do you think you like you were because we talk a lot people listening with their say. We'll do a marathon. I've run a marathon running altro and it was tough and I've done nation it was really hard and they hop on in the pub about how difficult it was. This is a different different level hair close to you think you were to kind of reaching that breaking point having been there before you know you've you said that the Star I've tried Lakeland hundred few times and of D._F._T.. After a few times and you know you've done some other major to distance events around the world but so you know your body pretty well have hard. Did this push you. It was it's it's it's. They probably been the hardest thing I've done. There's there's no doubt about it. It's been the hardest thing I've done N._S.. Probably down to the shared distance retirement it took to to do so I've done raises in Italy <hes> <hes> one race called <unk> John <hes> and it's like three hundred twenty k. and this ought to thirty thousand meters of senator thinking it's in the APP sorts at altitude and it's it's really tough race and I've done that a couple of times. 'em I've not been as wrecked after that and this and it it's funny like it's not like when you do a Road Meyerson you wake up the next day in your calves feel like rocks and like you're. You're totally battered while I have been whenever I've done 'em it's it's very different type of fatigue or soreness. Turn out to describe it. It's just like more deep kind of it's not as as a cute. It's not does <hes> sharp a pain but it's just this Dennis and told emptiness senior your legs you know what's your strategy for like for preservation because I guess you know when you're approaching this kind of thing what's going three heads in terms of I'm thinking either here but look you know it's all about enduring isn't it and we were talking of endurance but this is really about enduring and suffering and self preservation the better you can coughed yourself the longer you can cost yourself whilst I do so being at your kind of limit so like how'd you approach six day event to get the best Ab yourself for that long yeah. It's totally different to American America. There's certain things about doing a marathon or along fell race that are harder than than what I did because you know you're constantly on the on the limited on the near the the red zone you know so <hes> and that's a different type of suffering with this it it was it's it's not it's less about fitness and more about how you just what you said how you manage the problems that arise like get your back at stiff. If after a day or two you you've got niggly Achilles after a couple of days you've you're getting blisters etcetera etcetera and it's just about dealing with those as quickly as possible when they happen so I had lots and lots of people to helps oh like you get into the end of a leg and you're sitting the chair and the guys take your shoes off. Dry Your feet talcum up make sure that any hot spots are covered. You know you're it's it's just being preemptive about it and <hes> you know I had had really good people there who provided physical and sports massaging. 'em managed to try and stay on top of stuff like that in just a it's like a military operation you know you have to consider all these other things whereas in American every second counts and you don't you don't stop you just sort of running through it I guess and if you've got a nickel nickel either get to our SAR. Just goes away then you. You don't stop for anything like that to you. So it's it's more about managing your situation than than just a fitness thing and mental being mentally right as well and trying to keep yourself mentally gently right <hes> joining the challenges talk us through you know some of the moments where you felt because I'm guessing you had some where where you felt euphoric. You know you like because we've heard stories of like run as high and being at that perhaps people listening experience moments of just intense joy in running even when you're doing something so extreme aimed you experience those moments of Euphoria Yeah I did. I had some really really good moments. Where felt I'm going to do this and it's it's? It's not even that hard you know but I risk very very quickly brought down to our reminded that actually yeah it is it is hard you know I can't imagine being able to finish this it it it was swings and roundabouts in it and it swung very quickly one way or the other one particular time so I started on Friday morning phrases fourteen eight A._M.. And on Sunday I was doing along lake around Langdale and had some really good guys with me. <unk> Jebsen legend of Felony Appear Josh Dane was with him and it these guys were it was just a good vijay will keep me them going into Bente was good and everything and it just felt great on that leg and it was no problem at Tom gives me as like expert navigator and everything was good and I just thought I'm going to do this and it wasn't even halfway round so it was I was I I was conscious that it wasn't even halfway in new stuff grows just like just feel like things are GonNa go my way and I got to the end of that leg and it was like an eight hour leg and it was about six P._M.. And went into the stopped at riderless ambled Satan one of the guys who's involved in the club member. He owns this <hes> hotel so he had provided room in the sports massage tables out and the chips were brought up through you know and I was fed and it was it was just awesome and lowest people I knew were there and so everything was good and then Tom came into the room and he just said look the weather's turning. You're going to have a bad weather for the next four hours but it'll be gone then. It'll be fine so you could sleep no and avoid that for a couple of hours are you could just crack on and I just thought but if it's going to be done by ten pm than it's only about three hours that'd be fine so I did crack on and signed the rain aside the weather just came in and it didn't go into the boat eight and the next morning and it was just such a slug and that leg was crucial because that could have adulting the weather is just really really bad in and navigation was extremely difficult once it got dark and he had five or ten meters visibility with the ranger interface and Europe with six seven hundred meters contouring around the site of a felony disown away and it's just based on your tired three. You've been going three days. It was just crap and them anyway that was that was it was like saying to me. You're not done yet but he like it was just couldn't come chickens ends and and that was a very low point <hes> but we got true it and I guess did you have other moments where you where you felt like somebody coming it was but you know Ah Damian Hall <hes> I remember Seventy said to me like when when you out to running when you're running long you often often think you can't carry on but the reality is is that you can carry on and then when you do you'll be really surprised with the amount of abuse that your body and you mind can take you know what is it in. What is it when you had those moments where your thought just? I'm driven into the ground here. What keeps you what Kate what kept you going? Well I well. I've done a lot of reading all vote. Vote the psychology of it in the mental aspect of it because obviously you can't separate the two in the long ago. It seems the more important that side of things is and I think that's what keeps me going because I know that you're never it's over so difficult to get not limit like our bodies. Just stop us from getting there don't they you know them the so many mechanisms that will be playing so just on a fair bit of reading you know like some <unk> on the cycle biological model fatigue and all that it just <hes> that can be really comforting because you you you know that you're totally naked or whatever but that if if he's been in the situation before you'll know that it can turn really really quickly to and you can feel Kayla better and I'm not sure why that happens but you do know it happened so as a bit a comfort in that annoying that you've done it before. You felt absolutely terrible twenty four hours into a raise an in another forty-eight forty-eight hours. You're actually feeling better than you're than so <hes>. It's it's as if the body recovers while you're going along and it could be just you know a bad feeling like that could be. Just you know. Low blood sugar are <hes> just general fatigue that you know at an hour is stopped might actually be just enough to kind of change your mentality so am I it. It's more about knowing that <hes> have been in kind of situation before and that it will get better and that's I suppose the only way to manage it half flexible. Were you with with your Kinda stopped. You know you start finish points. You're refueling points. We always trying to run to fixed points in into the one of the sections one of the segments or will you like okay. I need to stop now just need to break. was there much give it was very <hes> Kinda done based on how I felt so yeah there was no. We'll watch set to every thirty minutes to to eat something or or drink something r. m.. It wasn't like I was looking at the scheduling informants down to quicken appear like I just can't deal with that type of stress. S.'s like that's that's fine for for twenty four hour event like for six days. It's the too much him stress involved in doing something like that so it was more about 'em felt good was pushing on if if I if I had to take a stop then would in is totally based on how I felt in it. Kinda worked that I even though my schedule that I made out was for sixth as twenty minutes so it was obviously went over that it still was there thereabouts the whole time so if you look at the way it was separated was twenty four separate legs to do and end my the idea I had was that what a may not move any quicker than Steve so I need to just rest less not not be stopped for as long so I tried to fit an extra leg on the Saturday evening that he hadn't done so I stopped later than aided and it just meant psychologically that I was starting the next day one leg ahead of if you know what I mean and that <hes> that was way I sort of made my first little chunk containment than it was just about trying to hold onto that and <hes> yeah because I know and there's not much difference when when Steve was doing this so back in two thousand fourteen Iraq where where similar in terms of our ability probably <hes> you know so I just thought well I'm not move quicker than I'm so better troy and and do something just restless stop less than than heated interesting interesting look. Is there any point a so you know which of the summit's did you reach where you felt okay this. This is really on because it's hard isn't it. When you want to six day and you always playing over near mind okay well? It's still going to get through the next day at anything can happen and it could go wrong and I could fall apart and hammer going to deal with that and I know that significant climb to do a known as that tricky dissent there and you're planning ahead a little bit. At what point did you go that Kozik you know I am. I am going to be running through to that Moot Hall. I think I can do this yeah like I. I thought on Sunday. Even like I said that that was my first thinking of you know that I I'm going to do it but obviously that was way too early to be thinking like that and I got asked and then I I basically didn't think about it again until the last day because the second <unk> A it was just such a long day was on the second day where we are a started the second I stay in Moselle so it's like Denver owed up into Motza valiant it basically the right in the middle of the northern fell so just under Charac fell and then you've got them really long section there. You do like just a lot of hills that a lot the people actually don't visit when they come to because it's just a little bit out of the way but they're really nice and quiet as well <hes> and so that brought me back around over skit on down to dodd which is just near Keswick and so you're quite near them but then you gotta go out yeah so m. a. the time when I suppose I knew was going to do it was probably on the last leg of that second. Stay when ended up in Wrandell car trek over here Erin I had just two legs left to do the next day. Am I finished about half when that morning and then am starting to get about five so that I just decide to more legs and I knew they were GonNa take at at worst. It was going to take me about <hes>. You know ten hours to do them so as long as I started early enough. I knew it was GonNa do it knowing the end and that was the first time I allowed myself to think alluded them which you know I suppose it could have thought about that the day before but there was still I was my knee was knackered. Disraeli sword descending <unk> Achilles was swollen and I just thought well you know maybe Manila Jesse's often won't be able to keep going so that are not going to come in chickens like it was it it's true I want you say read anything could go wrong a just chip on Iraq and smacked me head off a stolen or something and Nem. That'd be the end of it so I was all. I was thinking that way that it's almost too good to be true. It's like a can. I can't think that way because if they do just lose concentration and smack my head and yeah look like an idiot and so they like video if you running back through Kozik and you know this is one of the amazing things about the phone running community and the community in general who is so at Dole focused and everybody understands when somebody's achieved something incredible they kind of have this empathy with what you've put yourself a self through over the last six days and of course what that men was everyone turned in false yeah like it was that was totally unexpected like I knew them that people in in the local fellow community where we're really <hes> buying all like got got lots and lots of support but I didn't think that you know to cockatiel clock or whatever it wasn't Thursday afternoon that the so many people in this in Keswick and set it already to other people but it was in Keswick on Thursday so which run into buying the vegetables yeah yet but they domestic seemed to get round anywhere that them what was going on on an infanticide some of them joined in guessing it just made them obviously extras legis. It never cards me that I would get reception them and just my parents have come over from Ireland kind breath today's previous coming and that was nice to have them there as well and obviously make I mean Sarah. Has You know had to put up with on this stuff for the last six months and she's been in. She was there almost all the time as well so she likes. You'll know yourself as an athlete. You need to get your training done. <hes> she's preparing for the European championships such an extra again like I was worried about messing with our training training and sleep and and everything else so am it was she's very sad for subsidy she she just she basically put her on training them to decide and and helped me for that week and then you know that that that that special book is important are running source of did you have like did you have part of the witch like is there f a cat since difficult question but can there be a favourite. You know like I've I've got places where I run. Where I have memories you know but like music tracks they come back to you hear a track and you think are Kinda? Resonates Brings Back Memories when now your we're kind of eleven days off the year successful run of looking back at it with kind of rose tinted spectacles thinking not doing hacking king. I'm looking back at it with rose tinted spectacles but I'm also saying not doing that again. Not Doing it again like I've done it and and <hes> it's definitely when like I like on back and doing basis again. I'm I'm a bit like that. I find find race. Enjoy it and then I want to do it again but this is not one of those times because it's there was a lot of other stuff involved like the logistic site of it. I don't enjoy that and then that took a lot of effort and it wasn't enjoyable and and the stress before doing it because like say it's not like you know it's not like <hes> gone through Olympics and and the whole country watching your whatever but but this local community community people knew it was doing it and it was it was distress of you know. Maybe I'll fall flat my face and not even get past day one. You know maybe I'm just not good enough and I'm it's just like dream in like an unjust kidding myself and there was this even in the last few weeks struggling with hay fever overnighted spitting headache today before and I felt I got one hour sleep the night before in philosophy red starting off on the Friday mornings and I just thought Jesus might did not get past the first leg never mind the first day and as soon as I started that just went an felt fine and <hes> I like most of it was distressed related. Probably that was so worried about messing up so so it's a box technology I've done it and if someone comes next year in the next few months and embrace the record than well-done fair to like that that's all come back and doing it again but being you no you kinda say oh it to stress related and it goes is quite a lot of anxiety I find one of the things with with running and I always have you know for as long as I've done it which is forty five years probably now running does give me this amazing escaping and it's being a sanctuary full for my own kind of like salvation in mental health. I guess and you know you raising money. Chris stelling who passed away April earlier this year great runner triathlete amazing charity mind as well yeah yeah so that made that run into specialists because Chris Partners there on the steps as well that Joel Canyon and like like we managed to raise quite a bit of money and people got behind it and <hes> Chris would have been one of my pacers you know he was psyched to do it and he was <hes> he would have thought it was just you know mental and amazing and I'm been totally buying in and so it was it was like I obviously wish he was there to to be a pacer <hes> you know but when when he passed wait it seemed like a perfect 'cause to do it for because I think when you know he's doing something that was gonna captured imagination of people around here and I thought what a better raise if if you quit for someone that and an you know I was thinking of maybe I'll do it for local dogs trust or something like that because I've got me on Dogma love dogs and m but when this happened it just seemed like the obvious and thing to do that if we could get some if something positive <unk> come out of it than an abacus name associated with it even you know so. He's name's been mentioned quite a bit in the last few weeks so that's good it's it's must was my tribute to him. He was he was a person <hes> it's a lot of people were very very them shocked and broken is it about it so them great great tribute to put yourself through such an incredible physical and mental and psychological demanding challenge over over six days is just an epic epic achievement achievement. It's eleven days later like how if you've been have run yeah so I've I've Demi I jog on Friday so and it wasn't like it was very it's really slow and it was with the dog and it was more like a walked in the run but then amash letter race on Saturdays at scopes Catholic Bike Tamasha threes and we we were laced because what wasn't my fault John Donegan another club made it goes yeah when it was and of course John John was quite happy because then it meant that we got to run discover Pike so that John was purposely late just to make you run up yeah well. It was slow but I did have to yet. SORTA did some running to get up there and get back down so it ran the last couple of days but reenen storminess shock just to get me legs moving and and it's been out for rather than rather than around so and I I don't do what I think we're doing nothing. In in previous time you know played as long as I tend to jog the next day even if it's very slow and it does help but this time I was white and my foot was basically everything from <hes> fronta my foot up to above my ankle was just swollen and sore and I just couldn't run so I'm getting there but it's still an and I've been you know do getting back to work and stuff and everything that all these things that should take a couple minutes to do. They're taking fifteen twenty minutes and you're just like dozing off and it's very deep fatigue as what to expect like it's it's not like it was gonNA have batory after its hero of stories that we afterwards after these big Jones challenges of people taking all these approaches at optimizing recovery and all that kind of stuff like just pull that fancy stuff to one side for a moment like what thing that you think Hana's good you know. Is it like being able to sit with your fee dog on your lap Nice. Be watching the telly like what's it been that you felt fell. This feels good well. That's pretty much it just like I've not because I've got nothing got. No race planned for the rest of the I'm going to raise again but I don't have anything in the color or anything plan so it's sort of a weight off me shoulders because sometimes I think you can feel a bit <hes> a down about the fact you finish something big like this and then there's nothing in and you can get a bit despondent. Whatever but this time I don happy it's over and I've got this weight off my shoulders and I can go and do something else? No you know I love Sharpeville Racism Love. 'em You know our long even less shorter races than that. Just where you can go do it and then the next day you're GONNA WANNA get in this. There isn't a steep fatigue in sleep innocent so I'm looking forward to just yeah Nas Josh having a plan for a little while in but I just the I've had a beer and then just enjoy walking the dog and not neo zero pressure going to favorite cafe cake and just all this stuff left people do after stuff like this and it's it's good for the mine tastic brilliant pull of luck chantey. Thanks very much for sharing a little bit of your record breaking two hundred fourteen way right running attempt six hours six days six hours in five minutes quite unbelievable for all of those peaks three the engine eighteen miles. Thanks very much in yeah well. We'll catch up with your future exploits. I guess is there anything which you've got left on on your list. I say don't have anything in the pipeline just yet but I I love the outs and I want to go back to Jan again and <hes> other other races like that and I'm not sure about challenges like this. I do prefer races and I think certainly nothing no challenge this underwriting in my mind for the moment about enough of that I just want we get back into the final. One fear Paul probably feels a little bit at their but instead of focusing our great big long endurance event if you're going to focus on running one single mile one right absolutely flat-out and and you have six months amazing training has fast you think he'd Smash Era Single Mile of my mile on the flat one mile on the flat on the track of your one of the break in yourself just a single mile if the proper training for it well probably considering who I'm talking to <hes> fairly the averagely I do not something something with a five at the start of it probably unfortunately so unfortunately that's rapid we all we ask everyone the same question that we interview so come on. What's he going to be all five ten pretty from it? You got it now. You've said it no Chrissy Wellington 5:05 because he Willington the full time I'm world champion. You're going to give me six months to train for nitrogen for property then like set me self target. No I don't think so but but to get closer probably said the wrong thing look forward to seeing that look forward to seeing different Carter Payne listen. Thanks very much for join us on this show nicer mountainous pressure talkative well what interview with Paul. I hope you enjoyed hearing about his run around wainwright's Andy. What up to this week now? You've put my no said I'm going to be swimming in the city again probably so does that mean now the drugged in arrogant tomorrow well if we've got this ridiculous workout to do again in the morning so I could probably do that cool off so yeah I suppose yet. Let's let's do it. I'm going to steer here away from the jellyfish again. Yeah I'm running so what building for is I'm running in Newcastle Furnace Five K. on Friday night. It's a fabulous race at the start of Newcastle Pride of do now think of the last six to all of them and and because of Covenant Dodgy Tikka for quite a while of always just had to take things easy and somebody asked me on Saturday already raised from rhinos and I said yes and it was a really nice cyber. Yes I watched that so so a historically a think you're coming given a bit of a okay carry on with normal life recently yes so so about five weeks ago I saw my cardiologist who informed me that my heart was no better but it was no worse and and so I could just crack on what was wrong with it and so I've got pericarditis which is in inflammation around the heart so squashes your heart into smaller space so just works harder than it should be having to hide you know you had you did. Did you know that you had that. I was just very very unwell. Just chronic pain for about two or three months just feeling awful. Couldn't we do our job. Was this like a year and a half ago. Maybe a bit more nearly two years and even going out for walk. I was getting a heart rate of over one hundred twenty just woken up to the end of the street and just dreadful and and yet it's taken a really long time it just get medication right but also oh for me to feel confident to push on and so a combination of obviously the cardiologists saying that this is okay and me feeling like I'm well enough to do that and I've been able to challenge myself a little bit more has it's been really really nice so yes Friday will be. Let's see how fried he goes but I'm really looking forward to that and then I'm going to be Taylor. Balkan South Shields Park run on Saturday which is my home run and I thought I'll do on Saturday because a probably having a few drinks after the northern front runners five and I'm also going to book holiday this week. We haven't had a holiday abroad for about two and a half years and I've just decided if you could book any holiday like cost with no barrier time. How are you going to go for well? I think we would still go where we're actually going to go really here I think would we'd probably just stays away a bit nicer and Geico for longer. We're just going to go for a week. Okay wait. I'M GONNA go there so we're going to go to Minorca yet and we've been there few times and we've got this dream that we're going to one day do the comedy covers which is one hundred eighty five Columbus AH lawsuit to go all the way around on coastal trail. We've done bits of it but never done the whole thing and I still have no desire to do the whole thing and one goal and your way not the whole thing that would be combined. You've gotTa have time relax on holiday so we're going to go and do parts of it because the intention as that next year we will end the official race and you can just do short distances on that so this is this is an excuse to jolly go directly opposite holidays. Do you know what I like about. It's not very early good so you've got away with it. Yeah you even you people yeah it's beautiful and it's nice challenge in trail trail but it's just so gorgeous with embiid some bike symptom bits or we're going to go in grill have a bit of Iraqi of that. I was like a plant while I should. We look at all the kids while Liz goes off to see Fran. Goldie says Gary Olympic Bronze Medal of few storm break meetings a might to the London relay short on July the twenty second year. I'm not sure how day's GonNa pat yet so I'm not sure but I've got that one in my pocket okay hopefully I'm continuing to run around Clunky <hes> to to keep the kitties pain at bay and as soon as it starts getting a little better stock trumpeting sessions again because this time last last year I was leading up going to do the I get trail with Tame and Ben on my Ben who lives over in Switzerland marathon took listener and my my my heel after that and spent four or five months <unk> so I want to get back into it and see if I can be fitted and I was in August last year them Portland Rages fantasia tilted as well so few things criminal few things trying under that five minute mile as well so we see where marathon talks running in <hes> launchpad these taking the events that you submit to marathon to convince pages. It's also how you post your result for the listener podium this this weekend it Saturday. The twenty. First of July is Solo Way Coast Marathon lost twenty seven of July the Luna Take Night Marathon <hes> and then the twenty eighth. July's also the WESTLINK. Em seven block. Tom Running festival marathon. Then it's the Phoenix Fiber Series on Saturday the third of August that's three weekends away and then Saturday the the tenth of August is the Marathon Hebrides fullerton and that's it that is the end of the show Manji Andrews. He's Martin yelling and that was more than talk <music>.

Tom Terry Mollison twitter Graham Sarah Art Liz Lake district Bernard Steve Kenya Angie Andrus Charlie Greis Papa John pacers cates Ron Times facebook Wayne Record
And They Will Inherit It

Latino USA

40:55 min | 10 months ago

And They Will Inherit It

"How shall I begin my story? That has no beginning. This is a spin on some expert on second. She's a housewife in New Mexico living in a small town. I was a child, it was called. San Marcos. Changed the name Zinc town. Zinc town New Mexico. You. A. The image is black and white dusty Rhodes clothes swain on laundry lines in the desert wind shacks with corrugated Tin Roofs, our youths go deep in this place. Predict Pines. Deeper in the mine shaft. Zinc town is owned a mining company, all the land, all the houses, it all belongs to the company I am in mind is way. Eighteen years, my husband has given to that mind. Living happy life with dynamite and darkness. This is how the film salt of the Earth begins. It's a portrait of a desolate place dominated by mining and by injustice. Mexican. Americans in town. Don't have running water in their homes while Anglos as the Mexicans call them to. Mexicans, are more likely to be killed in the minds because they're required to work alone. But anglos are allowed to work in pairs and Mexicans are constantly put down by their bosses and treated like dirt. On, this day on Esperanza 's husband is considering whether to go on strike with the other Mexican American miners, they want to demand equal pay and safer working conditions. What happened next in this small? New Mexico mining town is not just the plot of a dramatic film. It's real. The miners, the discrimination, the dangerous working conditions, and the strike. They're all based on a true story. From NPR and Doodo media, it's let USA. Hosa and today how a strike in a small New Mexico tell and the classic film. It inspired still resonate. Today. The film, salt of the Earth was made only a year or so after the strike and released in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, four, it tells the story of our group of Mexican American miners to Ghana. Powerful mining company to demand their rights their fifteen month long strike includes some unexpected heroes and we'll explain that soon. But I you need to understand how radical the film was for the Nineteen Fifties. Politicians at the time were determined to root out secret communists from Hollywood. There were even public interrogation of filmmakers. Are you now have you ever been a member of the? Communist Party, this is audio of the interrogation of filmmaker Herbert Bieber Bearman in front of the House UNAMERICAN activities committee. To use this to. The motion, picture industry and. The Right? Not only be be Berman ended up serving time in prison and was blacklisted in Hollywood because of his suspected communist sympathies, and then he made salt of the Earth along with two other men who also been blacklisted. It seems pretty clear that salt of the Earth was an act of defiance. The government had sanctioned the filmmakers for his sympathies. So they made a movie that was unapologetically leftist. In one thousand, nine, hundred, fifty, four, the film was so controversial, only a few theaters across the US would show it. Salt of the Earth was essentially buried from public sight for decades. But in one thousand, nine, hundred seventies, she gano and feminist movements embraced the Phil. They saw it as an example of what social justice movements could actually look like. In two, thousand, eighteen producer. Traveled to Grant County New Mexico to uncover the story of what would come to be called the Empire Zinc strike. He wanted to find out how is sleepy mining town erupted into protest, and if almost seventy years later, anyone still remembers Sayer give them is going to take it from here. Before I tell you about what things are like in county. Now, I'm GonNa, tell you the story about how things were and we're going to start with our to Florida's. He was an important figure in the empire's ING strikes. Please come in. Thank you. My Dad Arthur. Florida's one hundred years old. One of the first. President Sir Locally. Local. Late Ninety is the name of the miners union in Grant County. By the way, we're going to hear about it a lot and our to Florida's was a union leader there in the nineteen fifties. Here, it's OK. Okay. I ever I have no problem with talking. Hundred. Be. Dumb. You're doing just fine. Sits in a wheelchair. His thin silver hair is neatly combed. His son. Larry leaves out a set of old photographs on the table. Here's head. Here's some of the actors from the movie, Clint Man Walking Out of the Union Hall Women Flannels and big brimmed hats smiling triumphantly at the camera. There's two is a full head of thick black hair. The photo is labeled local eight, Ninety Activists Nineteen fifty-three. I've come here to speak with our. Tutto. Because he is as far as I can tell one of the oldest living witnesses of the empire's ing strikes. Since our Tutto can't hear that while I write questions down on a piece of paper and hold them up for him to read. Our Two zero tells me about his childhood in Grant County. The place in the movie zinc town isn't real, but the county is dotted with little mining towns are Tudoz, does dad worked in the minds? His mother was a homemaker and our Tudo was a smart kid. He loved to read them before twelve. I had read the Bibles we time. Rectory Mike are tells me the story about a countywide history competition when he was in sixth grade, he made it to the very last round and then lost to drew very sad game to me and she said you want. But. You didn't get the number one, because it said, they can give it to a Mexican. That power fee of the company and they were hired by the company Company not time had a party. The Mexicans recruited differently, Mexicans were treated differently. He says, and the company are Tutto is referring to is one of several companies that owned mines across Grant County. A historian Eleanor Baker wrote a book about all of this called on strike and on film, and she explained just how much power the mining companies had. They own the land and houses in some towns, and another case is actually owned whole towns themselves, which meant they could discriminate all they wanted company head hundred were the anglo-dutch. Shack for the Mexican. Whole towns were divided white people or Anglos as they called them on one side and Mexicans on the other anglers were given higher paying jobs in the minds while Mexicans were forced to work underground for less. As a young man to flirt is left for the military and what he came back, he started working at the mine nearby digging zinc. The mind was run by the Empire's INC company when I came back from insurers treating me terribly. Said this is going to change. Our TUTA was a member of the miners union at Empire, Zinc Mine. Almost every mind in grant county had a union, and so there were a lot of little unions, but they didn't work together to negotiate contracts or better working conditions and their grievances were often ignored by the mining companies. Then in the late nineteen forties, something changed a representative from the International Union of Mine Mill and smelter workers showed up at our Tudoz doorstep. His name was Clinton Jenks he asked to go. Are you the one who's been complaining? Years. Were divided. We have no power. Laid Make Fun of. We are do something. This ashes, H. Moran. Each help. are Tudo worked with the National Representative Jank's to bring the Union's together into a single more powerful group that would represent all of them. It was called the Luke late. Ninety. By nine, hundred, forty, eight, five of the unions had signed on, they bought an old building in the town of Deming to be their union. A couple of years later in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, the miners contracts that empire zinc mine came up for negotiation this time, the workers demanded a fifteen cent raise two more paid holidays and a change to the payment system that favored white miners. But the company refused to negotiate. That's when the men decided to go on strike. The film salt of the Earth depicts these events with a little extra drama of two brothers. Very. And so again. Much like any other strike. It would be no settlement. The company said till them return to their jobs. The men set up a picket line blocking the entrances to the mine, the carried signs from the surrounding hills they walked for scabs. Miners were trying to cross the picket line to work. Empires in company drove minors from neighbouring minds in the county to try to cross the picket line to work others chose to come on their own. There's some important context we have to explain here. So remember this was a time of hysteria about communist infiltrating Hollywood, the government and unions, and in one thousand, nine, hundred, seven Congress passed this law known as the Taft Hartley Act. It redefined the relationship between unions and employers. But most importantly for our story, it included this provision requiring all union officers to sign an affidavit swearing that they weren't communists, and if they didn't, they gave up their unions right to have their grievances heard by the federal government. The local late ninety had refused to sign it, and the company had no intention of compromising with Mexican miners. Especially, those who might also be communists, this strike did not end. It went on and on. Into, the fourth month at least. Sixth. Companies still refused to negotiate. Then, in the eighth month lawyers from the empires in company approached a local judge are Tudo. Florida's said, they took advantage of a loophole they went to court said the guy. Coding a street, the company said that the strikers should not be allowed to block the road and the judge ordered the strikers to stop. And because the local eight ninety had refused to sign those affidavits promising, they weren't communists, they couldn't ask the government to help mediate the dispute. They were stuck if we obey the court. Strike will be lost. The SCABS will move in and soon as picket line is gone. If we defy the court. Our pickets will be arrested. The strike will be lost anyway. What happens next ultimately changed the fate of this strike turning it from an ordinary event into a historic one. If. You read the Jentzsch carefully, you will see that the only prohibit striking miners for picketing. We, women are not striking miners. We will take over your life. Women had been involved in the strike since day one, but they were often relegated to working behind the scenes cooking for the strikers, collecting donations, handing out leaflets, they were the wives, sisters, and daughters of the minors. But now, they had an idea. They would take over for the man. Those miners were not comfortable with the winds proposal and what would happen when the cops gung. And beat are women up. We're going to stand there and watch him. No. We'll take over. Anyway. And, we'll be right back where we started. Only worth. Even more humiliated. Brothers. Rather. I beg, you don't allow that. Moodley. Chosen to film. Is a way they acted specially the guy who was supposed to been the leader of the strike. This is maybe one of the most interesting tensions of the Empire's strike. The people who would have benefited most from having the women take over the miners were the ones who are against it. They were embarrassed. They knew that if the women were out blocking the roads, the men would have to stay home and take care of the kids clean. For, road of your fitting, instead of. Membership should the woman could wrote every adult living in town was given a vote instead of just the union members who are almost all men all those in favor that the sisters take over the picket line. So signified by raising their hand. All those opposed. Some men silently lifted their hands into the air. But it wasn't enough. Emotional has carried hundred and three to eighty five. And they wonder overwhelming to reenter. The women would replace the men on the picket line and so they came. They came from sink town in the hills beyond from other mining camps. Ten, twenty, thirty miles away. We know we have never seen before. Women who have nothing to the with the strike. Somehow. They heard about the women speed line. And they came. Meanwhile. The men took over at home to take the house, they found out to the wound work as hard. Announcing. This. Sudden change in social hierarchy wasn't easy for the men to handle in the film that includes the central couple. Esperanza and Ramon. Learned nothing from, the strike. Quality, are you afraid to having your side? You still think you can have dignity. Only I have none stock up. After you've been doing. I took a dignity. The Anglo buses look down and you hate them. Thing you're laid you dirty, Mexican? Climate. You say to me stage of play. You feel better him. Lord, and you shut up, you're talking. Who Women understood that they were fighting for more than just the men's jobs. They were fighting to be given respect, and despite the discomfort, the reality was that the men did need the women to win and the company knew that too. According to the book by Eleanor, Baker the local sheriff hired a gang of new deputies paid for by the Empires Company. Their job was to break up scuffles, but mostly they intimidated the women they would arrive at the picket line and threw tear-gas to try and disperse the crowd. They tried to drive their cars through the picket line. And at one point, even through the women in jail along with some of their children. And then in, January nineteen, fifty, two over a year after the strike had begun, the company finally gave in and agreed to negotiate with the minors. They had won all thanks to the women of Grant County. Crank. Did, one thing in Florida I'm concerned. We showed that the women. Could also getting tried. And me and management remain were. And Win as a had do. The men were able to go back to work. Thanks to the women and the miners received wage, increase, vacation benefits, pension plan, and the health plan. It wasn't everything they asked for, but the miners had also won the confidence that if they worked together, they could be powerful. and. Soon, the real story of the strike was being turned into a film. Salt of the Earth was shot on location in grant county new. Mexico using many of the real miners and their families as actors. Because the writer producer and director demand, you heard earlier Herbert, Bieber men had all been blacklisted in Hollywood. It was not easy to finish the film and when it was released in hundred, fifty four, almost no theater would show it. But in the decades that followed salt of the earth would be embraced by activists for its depiction of workers, Chicanos and women's empowerment. In. One Thousand Nine, hundred, Ninety two, the phone was included in the national film, Registry, at the library of Congress a symbol of its importance to American culture. Two weeks after I talked with our Doodo Florida's the local eight, ninety leader. His son informed me that he had passed away. He was a hundred years old. And myself coming back to the last thing he said to me during the interview. I've been reading up. On history. I like to read history. because. That, if you read history, you'll find out. How Tired. He said Dan. How. Holiday become powerful. And how they draw. Why? You, know what? Society. Greed. Greedy said is what dissolve society. At the end of the salt of the earth film as but on some looks triumphantly at the town. then. I knew we had one something. They could never take away. Something, I could leave to my children and this salt of the earth. With inherited. The miners victory, she seems to say, will mean a better life for future generations. It's been nearly seventy years since the empire zinc. Strike. So what did future generations inherit? A. Went Grand County to find out. Coming up Sarah discovers that the memory of a successful movement is hard to keep alive. Stay with us not the. Yes. This message comes from. NPR, sponsor better help a truly affordable online counselling service, fill out a questionnaire online and get matched with licensed. Bast suited your mental health needs whether it's depression anxiety or trauma better. Help will help you overcome what stands in the way of your happiness. Learn more at better help DOT COM and get ten percent off your first month with Promo Code, Latino better, help get help anytime anywhere. Until? Recently, admit Hong says he didn't speak out against racism. Because, he was scared. Off. Listen now on the codes which podcast from NPR. Hey we're back. So we've heard the story of a strike in New Mexico's Grant County in the early nineteen fifties, and we've heard about the film that inspired called Salt of the Earth. Now, producer Sarajevo takes us back to grant county to find out how the strike is remembered and what's been forgotten. So before we start this journey, I want to give you a lay of the land. You're going to hear a lot of names, silver city, Federal Santa, Rita? Hanover. Bayard, these are all towns in grant county all within about fifteen or twenty minutes of each other, and we're going to begin in the town of Bayard. Terry humble picks me up in front of the local library. He was a kid when the strike happened and remembers it pretty well. Later, he became a minor like his dad before him and a member of the Union, the local eight ninety. Now, he writes about the minds and he gives guided tours of the COWNIE. Usually it's in a bus, but today since it's just me, we take tropical world is closest. Let's go down to the Union Hall. I. Of course, we're in downtown Baird. Population Oh pretty close to three thousand. And you'll never get any bigger. It's completely surrounded by mountains and company land. From here, I can see the low colored hills and slate rocks and hills of mining waste. They look like Brown. Beige and red. Aquarium? Sand. Trucks. Pass says heading towards the mind, the men inside them where neon reflective vests things in pretty quiet this morning. Yeah. Yeah. It's a quiet little town. This is our union hall here. This was the union. Hall also during the Salt of the earth, strike metaphor it. No. Not The local late ninety union hall is still the original old building. They bought back in the nineteen forties. It's where the miners used to meet during the strike. It was also a community center. It's where they held parties, baptisms and other celebrations. A mural on the front wall of the building tells the story of the Empire's INC strike. There's even a painting of the women with their signs dancing in a circle and laughing the women. Of course, we'd get out and bass once in a while just for something to do carry their placards. If you go to open the door of the Union Hall, you'll find it locked. Looking through the window, it's like someone left for the day and never came back. There's a local eight, ninety member jacket hanging on the wall filing cabinets, full of documents and a bottle, of course, medicine half half-full, still sitting on one of the desks and I used to have a key, but the the all locks. In the years after the empire strike the local late ninety hit a rough patch. Financially, they burn through a lot of their money defending themselves in court for their refusal to sign that affidavit that confirmed. They weren't communists and for arrests made during the strike. But. Still. Terry says, the unions based remains strong for decades and we would always have anywhere from I would say thirty to one hundred people on our monthly meetings because it was a large union. I don't know it had several hundred members. We almost invariably have some of the old timers that had retired years ago, but they were so strong union boy. They were there to to give support and they would always get up and give a little talk to the newcomers you know to let them know says, it don't take what you've got for granted. You know you're getting a fantastic wage and benefits don't take it for granted because we. Had to win it for you. The metal mining industry can be unstable when demand is high, the minds hire more people when prices dip companies, lay off minors or even shut down their operations. In two thousand, eight hundreds of miners were laid off here from the minds after copper prices went down under two dollars a pound. And so even though the union one important benefits for the miners couldn't entirely protect them. The younger people in this town? No. You know much about the history of what has gone down here in terms of the strikes in the union and the mind ear regrettably, no. The younger people had benefits when they started to work, they didn't have to go on strike or do anything. They didn't have to negotiate to get the benefits and they just figured they were there. They took him for granted. So it's unfortunate, but the younger generation does not know. That much about the history of the unions or seem to care. Unions, in Grant County have followed the trend of unions across the united, states in fact, rates of union membership nationwide peaked in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, four, just after the empire zinc strikes. The number of people in unions has been on the decline ever since. The Way, Terry tells it every company that went on to own minds in grand. County tried to undercut the power of the union and every few years someone in the union apply for decertification. Basically, that means shutting the union down. They never got enough votes to pass it. Until two, thousand, fourteen. decertification was brought to vote again and it passed. That was the end of the late ninety. Terry drives his backup, the same main street that runs through Bayard, along the way, he points out the empire zinc mine. This is probably as close as you'll get to the line two years after the strike empires being shut down operation for time meaning many of those who had fought for better conditions, there were now without jobs. Eventually. The mind shut down for good in nineteen, sixty seven. The Tom Terry and our Tudo from Santa Rita is just a giant open mining pit now. Hanover in federal, the two towns where most of the empire zinc miners once lived are now mostly empty except for a handful of houses. But mining is still the largest employer in the county. You don't have to look far for evidence of that. Now, just six months ago. That mountain was. Fifty feet taller. That's Hanover Mountain, that's what they're gonNA. They're knocking it down all the way. And hauling it over to Santa. Rita. Because it's full of comfort. But that that thing was a lot taller. Six months ago. There are literally moving back to say they are. and. Then when they get down at the bottom and and get rid of the mountain, if the copper continues which they think, it does it'll be an open pit, just accent radio, they'll keep hauling. Yep. Someone's like in Verse Mountain. That's a good way to put it in an inverse mount. I make one more stop with Terry. We arrive at a bridge and get out. Talked on the side of the bridge, there's a small cement block with a plaque. Terry reads this bridge is dedicated to the mine mill women's auxiliary of Nineteen, Fifty, one, fifty, two. These brave women took over the picket line. The only sound on this little road is of the haul trucks from the minds, humming down the mountains in the distance. This is where the women used to pick it during the strike. People. I. Terry says that when of the Earth was made the strike scenes were filmed in hidden places away in the hills where no one could see because. If they came out here and tried to make the movie that people show up starts on rocks and stuff at home because it was so much bad feelings against the Union people even after to this day, you can talk to a local person that was alive or involved in any way. And you'll know in fifteen twenty seconds which side they were on. So. It's still something that carries weight for folks. Yes. It still has a stigma to it. Actually, they were talking about making the Union Hall, a Little Museum in I immediately got two phone calls from elderly. Anglo's that said, what in the world are they trying to do? They can't stir that stuff up. We've got to stop them and I mean, that was just a year or so ago. But the strike still has admirers during one of the anniversaries. Terry remember seeing lots of Latinos many of them who had lived in the area, but moved away. The came back to pay their respects, and they're also newcomers to the town who were curious about the history boy one time. One of the salt of the Earth anniversaries I think we had five buses and must have had eleven, cars following the buses and people got here, and we even at that time had a couple of the old ladies that were on the picket line. One of them just passed away a few days ago. The woman who passed away just a few days before I met Terry, her name was one assira. There's a video of her from one of the salt of the earth anniversaries standing in front of his plaque surrounded by a small crowd. One is describing being taken to jail and beaten by Sheriff's deputies. In the hope that you'll. Feel the way they used to feel. When they took us over there. Die I'M GONNA die for my people. Mom. This is the only voice you'll hear in the story of one of the women who walked the picket line in the empire. Strikes. To tell you the truth when I went to New Mexico, I was mostly interested in hearing from the women, but there were very few left. There's one named Rachel, why tried to meet and to call over and over, and she clearly didn't WanNa. Talk. Remember the strike happened in the nineteen fifties. So most of those who participated are gone or dead, the people that were old enough to actually be on the picket line as adults there may be one or two other women left so. I don't know of anybody for sure. That's alive. Grant County is shifting landscape full of hollowed spaces, visible and invisible. Tunnels that go for miles, pits that expand mountains that shrink. And the collective memory that wants tied these communities together is also like the mountains slowly disappearing. Later, that night I had to the House of Willy and the Sola. He was a small kid when the strike happened, I wanted to hear what will he remembered from the strike and his take on what's happened since? The inside walls of Willie's garage are covered in bumper stickers that say things like wish you were beer or everyone needs something to believe in all have another beer. I will meet you say or say or citing Sangre cited Sunday. said, there's a little fire crackling in the furnace and Willie's friend. Roger is with us. You can hear in the background sometimes. Came to you happen the strike. Terry humbled. Theory. How well now, there's some good information with very. Well, how contain? I, was really to smaller. At the mind. That said a radio. Button. To support women from. Willy's mom was one of the women strikers. He was about six years old and what he remembers most clearly is the day that he was taken to jail. This was when the sheriff's deputies were trying to intimidate the women. If they were with their children, the kids were also put behind bars. Brother was a baby. And I remember. These policemen, we manafort going, GONNA, turn my arm off. And put them in the car. That, because to jail. was to, democratic. A growth of Israel passed out because we were small and we're in the back, we can braces with. But the women to come. One of those women was one a Sierra, the striker who passed away the other day. Did you don't forget? Did you ever watch the phone? Do you remember watching the? Not. At the. Moment they want to see. A DAD DMC. So, we didn't get to see it. Because this is that going to help you know make? Things worse. Because sometimes I would. Wake up reality. No. Days. Maybe. Maybe. I. Don't think. Springs. Memory. The been. Memory is a sensitive thing for Willie and for many of those who lived through the strike. I've heard of other children of strikers who've also never watched the film. Even though the strike was ultimately successful for the strikers, children, many of whom were too young to understand what was happening. It was a scary time. Of course, in Grant County. It's hard to avoid reminders of that moment. Especially, the minds themselves who's abandoned entrances, you can see from the road. Willie also went on to work in the minds in the benefit school. Took us the Union. There were bringing people from more people to be supervised. He says, he was asked to be a supervisor three times and he didn't want it. But the strong unit girls old-timers. Look take said, look what the do to is people. Around here you know and you are. So finally we said, yes, a mom talking to me. To Go movin diesel. Englishman. So. She was really disappointed sold or sell out is what she called him. Willie and his mom didn't speak for three years. In her eyes, her son was cozying up right next to the same people that are dragged her to jail when he was a child. They were able reconcile, but his mom's still talked about the union. She always told me okay? Don't forget to forget we union in here. Will he says his children didn't show much interest in the history of the strike and he encouraged them to get an education. So they wouldn't have to work in the minds. So they could kind of freedom he didn't have including the freedom to forget. On my last day in Grant County Mary Lou Chavez takes me to a cemetery in the town of Fiero. It's one of the towns where of the miners from the Empire Zinc strike lift, it's mostly abandoned now. In my search for people who remembered the strike Mary Lou is one of the last names on my list. She's wearing sweatpants in a hoodie with Minnie mouse printed on the back. Mary, Lou reminds me. There's a funeral tomorrow, the one, the Sierra, the striker who passed away the other day. These lady, the tomorrow. To her brother's got killed. In the main. WanNa. See the grapes. Mary. Lou, a part of a committee in charge of the upkeep of the cemetery and the church. The last two monuments of what used to be. Federal. Discounts and walk around cemetery and Memories are here. I, wish. Those old base we're back. She remembers how they used to leave their doors unlocked how the neighborhood kids were dart around each other's houses, playing cowboys and Indians. The cemetery is freckled with worn down tombstones and crosses a big metal says watches over the place. From here, you can still hear the sound of trucks coming down from the mine see. Ninety, forty, seven. We approaches set of graves. As is going to get sued. Tomorrow. She points to a little plot of unoccupied or. WanNa, will be buried. Ask Her, whether she thinks the next generation will take on the upkeep of the cemetery when she's gone, we hope so. We hope so. Do. Mary Lou tells me. She plans to be buried in the cemetery to surrounded by the people she grew up with. The miners and striker's the kids she used to play with. Every social movement has to contend with what the next generation will do with its victory and grant. County is no different. What the strikers fought for was better wages and working conditions. But in another sense, they fought for the future of their children. And those children, the salt of the earth date inherit something that could never be taken away. Choices. To, stay or to leave to keep the union or not to work in the minds or not. To remember or forget. And what the next generation does with those choices, their inheritance will be entirely up to them. Our. Thanks to producer. Sarah, vital for reporting this story. Special. Thanks to Sara Maloney Sonya Dixon Roger Duarte Michelle Kells. Leary Florida's and Ellen are Baker who wrote the book on strike, and on film Mexican American families and blacklisted filmmakers in Cold War America, and if you're interested in learning more about the strike, you can read testimonials from strikers and their families online at the salt of the Earth recovery project linked on our website. This episode originally aired May of Twenty nineteen was produced by Sergiu with an edited by macadam. The USA team includes Neo Messiahs, Sophie Bunny, Sarkar newest rates. Janice MOCHA will yet the Martinelli Jillian. Elisa's Garcia and Alexandra said with help from pro bits. Our engineers are Stephanie Lebeau and Julia Caruso Additional engineering this week fight, Leah Shaw. Our director of programming and operations is nothing lieke. Their hearts are digital editor, his among the Contra or New York Women's foundation. Ignite. Fellow is only at check for interns are Sofia, Sanchez, and remained Osa. Our theme music was composed by saying it will be knows if you like the music you heard on this episode stopped by let USA DOT ORG and check out our weekly spotify playlist I'm your host and executive producer maniac. No wholesale. Join US again next time, and in the meantime, look for us on all of US Social Media Stabili Joe. Latino USA. Is made possible in part by. The Ford Foundation working with visionaries on the frontlines of social change worldwide. The John D and Catherine T. Macarthur Foundation. And W K Kellogg Foundation, a partner with communities where children come first. Is they are. Say. Are you ready.

Union Grant County Tom Terry producer Florida Hollywood New Mexico Tudo Union Hall Eleanor Baker US miners union Zinc Mine Grant County New Mexico New Mexico Esperanza Mary Lou Florida NPR
Full Episode: Sunday January 27, 2019

World News Tonight with David Muir

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Full Episode: Sunday January 27, 2019

"Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast. Tonight. Several developing stories as we come on the air. A bitter cold blast sweeping across the country. The coldest temperatures in several years below zero wind chills from the plains all the way to the Great Lakes Roger stone one on one what he's now saying about cooperating with the special counsel and accusing the FBI of Gestapo tactics during his arrest high speed road rage. The driver speeding down the highway at up to seventy miles per hour. A man clinging to the hood of his SUV another driver, then pulling out a gun to stop him manhunt arrests the alleged killer wanted for shooting his parents, his girlfriend and her parents why police were waiting for him a thousand miles away the race against time. The massive search and rescue effort underway, hundreds missing in a deadly dam collapse. Dozens killed and hacked and harassed and uplifting story we brought you right here on this broadcast. Then Russian hacker. Stealing the sickles identity setting up a charity scam the families warning tonight. Eating seen. This is ABC news tonight. Good evening. Thanks for joining us on this Sunday. I'm Tom Llamas. And we begin tonight with more than two hundred million bracing for extreme cold across much of the country wind chills plunging well below zero from the Dakotas to Michigan a clipper creating dangerous driving conditions across Illinois car skidding off the highway record cold expected over the next few days pushing into the northeast this week ABC senior meteorologist, rob Marciano leads us off tonight tonight parts of the midwest. Getting the leading edge of some of the coldest dare to hit the US in years travel and parts of North Dakota already treacherous interstate ninety four impossible to see through the blowing snow that storm a precursor to life threateningly. Low temperatures usually found in the Arctic icy conditions across Illinois already causing spinouts and crashes on the highways. Enter Kogyo today was actually colder than in some parts of Alaska. The Chicago river resembling a skating ring any exposed skin. That's what's terrible. It really does kind of feel like it's burning. It's so cold on Lake Michigan this steam devil was spotted and it was God's and they're still digging out from last week's storm with even more snow in store. I tried to shovel myself, and there was no way that I could to the east icebreakers patrolling Niagara Falls ahead of the cold blast nearly two hundred and twenty eight million Americans bracing for below freezing. And potentially record. Breaking temperatures this week dangerous. Temperatures for so many across the country. Rob Marciano joins us down set, and rob walk us through the next few days. So it's going gonna come through in stages in the end it's going to affect the entire eastern half of the country. A huge Arctic air mass. You see the leading edge of it right now with some snow reaching down across the upper midwest, we've got winter storm warnings and now blizzard warnings for the leading edge of this. And we could see substantial snows as far south as really the deep south Chicago mess in the morning for the Monday morning rush. The Tuesday evening rush across the northeast might see a little bit of snow again accumulations could. Potentially get down all the way to north Georgia. But here comes the cold with those knows could see over a foot just north of Chicago. These are actual temperatures Wednesday morning, minus twenty three you factor in the winds could be minus fifty inch icago minus sixteen Moines that is dangerously goal. Take care of your pets, keep your kitten side, if you can wait this out it's going to take several days and more than two hundred million in the path. Right. Rob. Thank you tonight. To other major headline President Trump's longtime adviser Roger stone attack in the FBI accusing authorities of Gestapo tactics during his arrest two days after being indicted on charges of structure of Justice and line to congress still now, signaling a willingness to cooperate with Robert Muller. He insists he never spoke to the president about WikiLeaks. Russia or about Muller's investigation is critics say the evidence against him is right there. Here's ABC White House. Correspondent Tara Palmeri ten night. President Trump's longtime political adviser Roger stone strongly denying that he ever communicated with Trump about Russia or the molar investigation. None what. However zero category category zero special counsel, Robert Muller. Indicted stone Friday on seven counts, including obstruction of Justice witness tampering and lying to congress. In court filings, molar paint stone as an intermediary between the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks, which published hat DNC and Clinton campaign, Email stolen by Russia now out on bail stone, defiant cues Muller of trying to intimidate him with the heavily armed predawn FBI raid on Friday, the could simply have called my lawyers. I would've turned myself. That's a question that we give shell a force to try to depict me as public enemy number one. Let's let's these are stop otx. Let's court documents allege stoned threatened witnesses calling one Iraq and setting an Email writing. Let's get it on prepare to die stone offering this explanation. I do have a million emails. They have been reported many of them taking out of context in this indictment. But there is nothing to fight. Muller claims stone was directed by a high level Trump campaign official a charge. He denies but soon does not rule out cooperating with the special counsel if there's wrongdoing other people in the campaign that I know about which I know of none. But if there is I would certainly testify honestly, I'd also testify honestly about any other matter, including any communications with the president. It's true that we spoke on the phone, but those communications are political in nature. They're benign. Well, there's no mention of collusion in the latest charges. House intelligence committee chair Adam Schiff says it's Q early to rule that out and I would expect George that. If there is a conspiracy to defraud the United States, they collusion indictment. It would be the last indictment that Bob Muller would seek not the first. So we'll have to wait to see what evidence he produces. Alright Tara Palmeri joins us now from the White House and terrorists stowed also defended himself about claims that he lied to congress about talking to a witness. That's right tomstone claims. He forgot that he contacted the witness even though. Oh special counsel. Robert Muller has documents showing that the two text message more than thirty times on the day in question. Tom Terry pull Mary for us tonight. Tara, thank you in politics night. The twenty twenty race for president getting more crowded, California. Senator Kamala Harris kicking off a presidential campaign with a rally in Oakland today. Senator Harris taking direct aim at President Trump and the border wall on the subject of transnational gangs. Let's be perfectly clear the president's made evil. Vanity project is not going to stop them. Harris Harris's part of an all ready crowded field. That also includes senators Elizabeth Warren and Kirsten gillibrand former Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz, considering a run as an independent some Democrats worry, though, he could pull support from their party next to the frightening scene of a high-speed road rage in Massachusetts look at this driver racing down the highway a man clinging onto the hood of his SUV at up to seven. Miles per hour. Here's ABC's aerial Russia tonight that shocking cell phone video of a dangerous road rage incident on a pack Massachusetts turnpike, a white SUV reaching speeds of up to seventy miles an hour with a man dangling from the hood. The driver thirty seven year old Mike FitzGerald at times appearing to hit the gas. I just stopped the car. Stop the car. He wouldn't stop horrified. Onlookers. Trying to flag him down the car travelling nearly three miles as sixty five year old Richard come round ski clings to the gap by the windshield watch as the husband of the woman, capturing this cell phone video gets out of their vehicle trying to intervene another man walking into frame wielding a gun ordering FitzGerald out of the driver's seat. Just as officers arrive. Police say the heart stopping ordeal stemmed from a minor side swipe spiraling out of control after a verbal altercation. Come row ski jumping on the front of the car as FitzGerald drives off both men arrested at the scene, Tom. No one was hurt. But both of those men now face charges as for the guy with the gun who cokes FitzGerald out of the car. Police say he owned that weapon legally and will not face charges. Tom incredible. Nobody was hurt or right area. Thank you new developments tonight. In the intense manhunt for a suspect wanted for killing five. Louisiana, including his parents and his girlfriend police arresting him when thousand miles away in Virginia as he pulled into his grandmother's driveway. Authorities say his father's last words identified his son as the shooter ABC Stephanie Ramos is in Virginia tonight. The manhunt is over for a suspected killer accused in the cold blooded deaths of five people in Louisiana. Twenty one year old Dakota tarot is behind bars suspected of killing his twenty year old girlfriend, some are Ernest her father and brother before killing his own. Parents police say terriers father's last dying breath identified his son as the killer. But there are still questions about a motive. Sinful my baby for nothing. It not for nothing. Authorities say after the killings -tario drove from Louisiana to Virginia arriving at his grandmother's house this morning. Police say she stayed the night at hotel after warnings from family that Terry. Oh was on his way, she called this morning. Looking for the officers to go by make sure that the house was safe for her to go into while the officers were there. The individual actually drove by he drove up into the driveway at that time. Headache pistol in his hand. Police say -tario dropped the gun when he was asked to by officers and was then arrested the was very sleep deprived. The same like. Once put an our booking room. He went he went straight to sleep. Stephanie Ramos joins us now. Live and Stephanie. I saw you spoke with the Richmond county sheriff there that's in Virginia about this case, what is Teri telling law enforcement. Well, Tom, the Richmond county sheriff tells me that tarot made several statements about the murders during his arrest all of that. Now being used as evidence -tario is being held without bond here at this jail. He has an extradition hearing set for Friday, Tom Stephanie Ramos with that new reporting on the arrest tonight. Stephanie, thank you. We do move onto the growing danger in Brazil and the race against time. Search and rescue teams looking for hundreds of people reported missing following a massive dam collapse. Dozens killed the death toll expected to climb. Authorities briefly suspending the search fearing another dam was about to break here's ABC's Zachary quiche, do desperate search continues for a second day after relentless rain in deteriorating conditions complicated. The rescue effort for one hundred missing following a massive dam collapsed. Southern brazil. Helicopters swooped in the mud flooded areas. With supplies in makeshift, medical centers, examined the injured. Thirty seven are confirmed dead in two hundred eighty people are still missing officials are not optimistic they'll be found alive. This search for survivors, west to spend it for several hours over fears. A second dam was at risk of a breach. Sirens rang out as twenty four thousand people in potential harm were ordered to get to high ground. But tonight, civil engineers say that dam is safe. The second dam is located about a quarter mile from the first incident, and is being closely monitored Tom in a bit of good news, some areas previously to wet and unreachable for firefighters are drying out, Tom, but still so many are missing right Zachary. Thank you. Now did the chaos in Venezuela and battled President Nicolas? My Ludo accusing the US of leading a coup to force him from power by meeting with military troops rejected an international tomato to call for new elections within days the White House backing the opposition leader as an interim president urging other countries to do the same secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, telling the world, pick aside ABC senior foreign correspondent, Ian panels in the region nNcholas Maduro the president challenge for power, but refusing to back down today trying to. Prove his strongman credentials running alongside troops. Watching the Mexican is and testing their loyalty, yelling, traces never. That I never they say he knows learn t the military will decide his fate hit as he struggles to maintain control. He's now signaling a potential willingness to negotiate backing down from his seventy two our demand. This all US diplomatic personnel. Leave Venezuela now giving them thirty days. US pressure unrelenting today. National security adviser John Bolton tweeting any violence and intimidation against US. Diplomatic personnel. Oveess Wailers democratic leader. One Guido will be met with a significant response. Download the glide oh, the young opposition leader declared president by Venezuela's national assembly some coolest and attempted coup. But he's backed by several nations, including the US outside church. Now, edging the military to also support him early. This week hundreds of thousands taking to the streets of the capital demanding change, this oil-rich nation once one of Latin America's wealthiest now moving ever closer to the brink already suffering from humanitarian and refugee crisis with thousand fleeing daily we met this group tied and tearful after just crossing leaving behind a nation suffering from crippling food and medicine shortages, fern unknown future. This weekend secretary estate, Mike Pompeo, the UN Security Council telling the international community. Now, it's time for every other nation to pick a side, Tom. No one knows where this is going to end Guadagno is investing in the people. He wants them to come out onto the streets. Once again this week. Whereas nNcholas Maduro is investing in the army. He knows that's where his power lies, Tom. Ian panel monitoring all the developments out of Venezuela. Ian, thank you an a solemn day around the world. Millions observing international holocaust remembrance day. And the death of six million Jews about fifty survivors among those marking the liberation of Oshawa wits. Seventy four years ago. The anniversary comes amid growing concerns about the rise of anti-semitism, the US and other countries, and there's much more had a world news tonight. This Sunday, twin explosions rocking the cathedral during Sunday mass worshippers running for their lives. But we're now learning about that deadly attack Plus Pact and harassed the inspiring Michigan family their little girl story going by role. Now online thieves cashing in the warning for your family tonight. What firefighters discovered deep inside the smoky storefront the dramatic rescues caught on bodycam. We'll be right back. Is it still a struggle to get that good night's sleep? Then maybe it's time to try the purple mattress. It's made out of a new material that keeps it firm and soft. So it keeps everything supported while. Still feeling really comfortable. Try it now with a one hundred night risk-free trial along with free shipping and returns. And if you order one, you'll get a free purple pillow with the purchase of a mattress just text W N t to bore seven four seven four seven the only way to get this spree pillow is detects W N t two four seven four seven four seven. Message and data rates may apply when it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste you need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast. That's why you need indeed dot com. Get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast back down with a little girl who story of inspiration ended up with her family, hacked and harassed. Social media thieves cashing in. On her identity the warning for other families tonight, here's ABC's MARCY Gonzales tonight, the family of this five year old girl sharing a warning about social media. Identity thieves. Maya TIs deal was born premature diagnosed with cerebral palsy, America, strong, word rehearse steps airing right here on world news tonight. But now instead of celebrating milestones. Her family says they're in an almost daily battle against scammers using photos and videos from maya's Instagram page, creating new fictitious accounts, they're trying to scam people by saying that this is their daughter and she's ill and they need money for treatment. And his claims she filed a police report and notified Instagram multiple times. The social media giant telling ABC news, we investigated this issue and disabled number of accounts. We also took the additional step of blocking those responsible from creating new Instagram accounts for weeks with each deactivated account anew. One would pop up one sending this private message threatening to only stop creating new accounts using my as lightness if she paid thirty thousand dollars. It's a pretty sickening feeling to see that as a parent Instagram and Facebook have been a wonderful platform for us to share. Our story. I would hate to see it ruined by not being taken care of in a way, that's appropriate and Instagram encourages users to report fake accounts. But they say the best way to ensure the content of your page is secure. It's to make your account private, Tom. Marcy Gonzales for us. Mostly. Thank you time now for index bombs targeting churchgoers overseas at a cathedral mass in the southern Philippines. Sending pews and glass flying worshippers stampeding out at least twenty people killed more than eighty wounded. Police say a second bomb went off as first responders arrived. Isis is now claiming responsibility for that attack. Also tonight, the Royal apology ninety seven year old Prince Philip, sending a personal note to the driver. He crashed into recently saying, he's deeply sorry and wishing Emma Fairweather a speedy recovery. This after taking some heat and British papers for not reaching out the Princeton meeting he was quote shaken by that accident but seen back behind the wheel soon. That crash and driving without a seatbelt to the firefighters back here at home braving some intense smoke and flames look at this. It was all caught on bodycam storming that smoke-filled storefront in Oakland, California, saving a litter of puppies and several dogs. No word on what started that fire yet. But everyone is expected to survive and celebrating the life of a member of our ABC family seven St. Bill down in Washington. He's got all the news. Good morning. Good morning, everyone legendary newsman Steve bell, the first warning news anchor here leading our coverage on some of the world's biggest stories most recently leading a new generation of journalists at ball state university survived by his wife Joyce and daughters. Allison and Hillary Steve bell eighty three years old finally tonight beating the odds the parents taking their young son home after two long years in the hospital. It's America, strong, doctors, nurses, and staff at medical city, Dallas all lined up for this moment. That's little Jacob Rodriguez who was born inside of the hospital and has not been able to leave for two years. Able to take him out of here alive. Jacob was born premature Wayne just over two pounds, his mother, although Rodriguez told us the story of what happened after she got pregnant, gut wrenching feeling like, I don't know. Like when you mean something's wrong quickfire, baby. They're scaring the devastating news that her son was developing inside of the womb with a birth defect. His intestines liver and parts of his stomach were outside of his body. They did tell me the risk that he would die Neto. And of course, that broke the pieces thinking we wanted this for so long. And there's a possibility might lose them through. It. All Jacob kept fighting his family, never giving up hope and he's just got this outlook in life. There's no worries and like how can you stressed about anything else when this little boy has been through so much and he still at the end of the day smiles and now finally at home in his own crib. And just like. Every other child learning how to walk for the first time calling something other than a hospital home. We're so happy. Jacob and his family are back home tonight. We thank you for watching on, Tom York. GM may first thing in the morning and David Muir is right back here. Tomorrow night have a great evening tonight. Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast, see headlines across your screen all day, but you're busy. What do you need to know? What's actually shaping your woulld? I'm Brad milkey from ABC news and every morning we start here. It was extraordinarily for us. Watching here in Singapore is ABC's new daily podcast a handful of stories just twenty minutes director Comey. Thanks for being with us. Newsmakers smart reporting taking you straight to the heart of the story starting here. Listen for free on apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app.

president Tom ABC United States ABC special counsel Robert Muller Russia Tara Palmeri FBI President Trump Rob Marciano Jacob Rodriguez Chicago Stephanie Ramos Instagram Venezuela Tom Terry Michigan Tom Llamas
Jason Jerry - Political Radar - Green Bay

Political Radar

34:33 min | 2 years ago

Jason Jerry - Political Radar - Green Bay

"Admiral radar shows that we have liberals approaching at three o'clock and Libertarians at nine o'clock and conservatives at six o'clock they're coming from every angle every viewpoint green bay this Elliott and this is political radar Green Bay. Hey and I'm here with a surprise Mr guests that we're going to disclose at the end of the episode. We're pretty okay. No we're not going to I'm here with of course if you watch the teaser. Which of course everybody watches the teaser? I so Jacob tells me no. We're here with Jason Jerry. I am a man with two first names so I actually I have a student who has three first names really well I do. I have a middle name that is also also I named Muhammed Muhammed Muhammed. Oh I cannot I cannot that's amazing did want to name my son Jerry Jerry which would have been great great but I got overruled so now he's Alexander Justice Jerry and the coolest middle name ever that is pretty cool. So why are you here hi you asked me to be here. This is the third time in the first time I could actually show up. I'm sorry reviews to he begged and pleaded so no not not sure so <hes> as everybody. I think knows you have this community of disciples the LOM nights at Hey. It's Tom Terry it is it's a chat room. It's a chat room. Where we're I pluck news stories from the local headlines Plop them on the group then people talk about it but it's not like I ruled with an iron fist I it's it's I try to keep things neighborly neighborly and it seems to have worked out for the last two years so it's not rife with trolls? We make sure to eliminate the trolls unlike there are few that actually actually entertain the heck out of us so we keep them Harry but it's eight lightly moderated chat room basically <hes> that I've produced like like I used to produce an old newscast back in the old days. I guess they call it a news aggregate now in New Hampshire those are new words and I'm not hip to the BUZZWORD. Kids are using some of you are. I've heard the aggregate so you have a you have a background in what you call traditional media yeah. I was what I like to call an old school news producer back in Beck and the dividing line was pre pre nine eleven because after nine eleven I believe is when it split among hyper partisan lines before that the news was the news and People Watch the nightly news and they didn't question whether it was fake news or whether it had an opinion trusted C._B._S.. A._B._C. N._B._C. The cable news hasn't doesn't hadn't exploded yet C._N._N.. Back in that day was a news provider to the networks they sent the reporters around the world and sent it back on the feeds. <hes> there was no no opinion involved in it so when you see A._p.. And Reuters and C._N._N.. US old school guys think well. That's got to be impartial C._N._N.. Drifted away from that and then he this otherwise of the huff Po in the Fox News on but after nine eleven that's the way it got. I was just an old school local news producer who by I trade saw every story straight down the line. There was no side to a story there was just the story and a lot of that just stuck with me over the years that sense and that's what I tried to bring to the Internet okay because honestly I saw it happening on political radar I took I took a a good decade off off of even caring about the news <hes> Theresa Kids and do other things yeah and when I came back to it I really liked what you guys. Were doing. In terms of that new media it reminded me of what I was doing back in college on the old cable channels got to watching it and got really interested in news noticed you had your group or people wanted to talk talk about local issues but it was being drowned out by the national issues so I kind of pulled it out of there and made it its own thing and then started doing the live broadcasts from the Council Council meetings with the discussion and what really was good in those early days was getting both the media and the politicians to join in that conversation nation sadly as things grew a lot of them backed out because the more is upon them the less they wanted to be seen sure unless it was election time so so now it's basically to the point where you know. I'll like a news producer does a pick through the stories that matter throw them up. Give it some sort of order in a rhythm and and let the people talk. So where do you think things are going locally like yeah with all this stuff like with what I'm doing here with you know me and Jacob and none of us are making a living off of it. I mean hell. No you know exactly I tried yeah. I mean I have have no idea how to monetize things in the not gonNa make any money that way so you know you try to do what you can. It's a struggle all an after taking ten years off to raise kids in it's hard. I burned a lot of bridges in T._v.. You don't hop around T._V.. Stations without burn some bridges and right now but you know I used to produce for Uh Tom's Alaska Chuck Ramsey Mary Smith and Bill Jarrett's when he was you know back in sports and they're not looking for that anymore. They're looking for bright young young fresh millennials who knew how to know how to hit the fifteen minute mark instead of building a good lead and then worrying about the B. Block in your kicker after and who work for nine bucks an hour which I would still take it seriously I would say yeah I mean whatever right yeah so so do the Internet thing and you try to do what you do with it and I. I'm hoping to either kill it. Entirely or expanded tremendously depends on which Schwer take. It's a choose your own adventure. Do you think that like the political radar Allama Empire is going to end the local media or do you think they're we're GonNa see what we're doing and they're going to take the good parts and just coop thus. I think if anything thing <hes> the local media what they have to do is different from what we have to do because they need to cover all of northeast Wisconsin Johnson whereas I don't give rat's ass about anything outside of Brown County I've decided to be hyper local right you look at more of the national political scene but also don't get into newsy type stuff and everything has its own there. There might be a niche or many many different things you know what you see the press times the former S. twelve and on Howard so I'm Michael Press Yeah. They're now trying to get back to the news chronicle as an alternative to the press gazette. They're trying to focus more on what Howard and Ashwell Benun appear and Hobart in the surrounding areas are doing because your T._v.. Stations is are just going to be Green Bay Appleton Oshkosh. Maybe fond lack MANITOWOC Marinette. Those are their focal points. They have to hit. It's just a matter matter of where do you. What do you want to know about where and then? Where can you get it from right? I mean so I mean the small surrounding communities I mean I don't WanNa diminish that too much but I mean how much news is there. You know there's there's always some sort of content. That's going to be available but I mean so when you're when you were talking about before about making making things not partisan I didn't become it almost feels like it's GonNa it becomes very personality driven then right when you get to small when you get to small right I will feel that way about green. They man like the whole like Jim Schmid Well you know I it's it's current events within your community and to me that's the definition of Nubian okay so maybe a ribbon cutting is is news but farmers market is a thing that's going on right right and of course but you know it not not all news is breaking blood and guts and lind by the way the you gotTa have your community. There's a fair amount that there's a fair amount of money involved in the farmer's market and they have a marketing budget they do they do indeed right. Oh I I mean so. Why would I even help them? Why would I give them the time of day? I think they'll pay me to do so. I'm hoping come on Brian. I mean you're watching. I don't know I mean I know too much much about that so it's it's a little weird but it's so it's it's weird that you bring that one up but you know apply. That's anything right <hes> so what makes something newsworthy. I guess you know if it's to me if it's something that will bring out community interaction and engagement <hes> it's a lot about the discussion and sometimes you're not gonna get much discussion on those things but it's also giving people the at least visual impression that that we're carrying about more than just <hes> conspiracy theories that it's more just than government corruption. Hey there's also this nice thing happening so you might WanNa you know it's it's more like P._S._A.'s. Let's be honest if every post you can't all be hard hitting news every now and then you gotta throw in a P._S._A.. For a well rounded community water. I always think of like whatever like I'm a grammarian and I'm going to school you on the news not now what's happening here okay but like I when I think inc of news I think of new right and so <hes> so this guy with the three names Muha Muhammad he he got a scholarship when he went to pro bowl. There's a story it's a new story. Yes so like that is sort of news and I think that's worth sharing because it is it is a good upbeat thing and we don't share enough of those things. Thanks I agree with you. I agree with you. GotTa get that on Allama Yeah but the farmers market happens every year oh right right right right and I and I hate to park on that that like but then like as an example right so <hes> and I feel like that those sorts of things are easy news oh yeah and and were collectively like maybe you and me included. I don't know like wouldn't nor none of us are finding the actual news anymore. Oh right well. I you know my focus has tried to focus on the local politics of City Council and the Brown County Board. I think that's where the bulk of my attention attention has gone. The other stuff is just you know the the frills and addressing the icing on the cake and now is there actually is our actual news there Paris and do people care about it. Well you know over the course of the last two years. Look at the marijuana debate <hes> that was huge in a lot of P._d.. Told you we talk about drugs. It was it was to me that was to me the biggest example of government not listening to the people who put them in Yep. They literally didn't listen up there talking right they literally were not listening exactly and I literally yelled at them about how many comeback and now you see that in we broke it down by every single in goal Alder District Every Single Supervisor Ward and it was always between like seventy two to seventy six percent very consistently it's true and as you have pointed that out pretty right to yeah so to me. It's not a matter of the issue. It's we're the ones that put them there right right yeah enough people cared to come out and vote on that issue now will they come out and vote when these supervisors are back up for re election right because otherwise some of these guys are skating by with the neighbors in their cul de sac getting them into office but let me tell you there are some some very closed minded not very intelligent people on that county board a lot of them sitting in the second row right I. I don't dispute that I yelled at them. Yeah I think we're both clear and who those those people and that's why I I like to focus on the city and the county for me. It's not first of all I can't math so I cannot get into the specifics of developments but I do watch every elected official as almost like there're character on a T._v.. Show and dissect them psychologically good so it's fun for me to watch the Green Bay City Council is though it's twelve angry men and women and the same thing goes with the county board. It's a fascinating character study on how they interact and adjust wish that more of the voters I would see how that plays out right right well. What can we do to make that better? I because I feel like no matter how many how many issues we pick and all the stats that we throw it in scream. I you know you're screaming. I'm screaming Wendy screaming yeah <hes> and not just marijuana other things right like how do we get people to vote people to care about these things you got me. That's why I'm sick of being the boss I would just like to put stuff out there and lead the back because I've been screaming myself horse about a great number of issues but I I mean I think it I think we need a boss. We do I mean and maybe that's you know. I don't know who the boss has to be. Maybe you're tired of it. I'm tired of being around a wrestling company for fifteen years when I am sick of being the boss that's the thing everybody thinks build the Llama into something that can monetize yeah. I'm at the point where I just just put me on something and let me Doc. I I appreciate that I I don't want to be the boss either but I but I see the apathy and it's and and it's not just young people. That's the thing that troubles me. No it's it's it it. It's it's a wide gamut of people um and it and it's across political you know just it's it's everywhere the apathy and and where there's not apathy cynicism awesome and so even when they do vote. They're cynical about it so I just <hes> you know. Maybe I the thing that that just sticks with me now. Is that nine eleven thing. I never heard you say that before yeah and so I just keep going back to that and I'm like you know <hes>. There's I think there's something a little bit too that that's when people really started questioning the message behind the media. It's it's when hyper patriotism rose to such an extreme level that you dare not question certain things like look at taking down the nine eleven memorial royal how hard we tried to get that is sore. They never should have accepted down because it's all about America. How dare you take down on that symbol of America you know put the beam in the museum so that everybody can see and it stays out of the weather but you can't put it museum because the county doesn't want city can't get rid of it and it all comes down to political red tape but at least they took it down at least Mayor Schmidt and one of his final acts decided all right? You know what I'm not gonNA. Put this this on on on Eric here. Get Down <hes> so good on him so out so you know what that segues into something perfect <hes> I there. Is You know you said Said you know you're bad at math. Maybe I'm bad too but seems like there's an awful lot of focus on. Let's build some cool things and not enough focus on. Let's take care of the things we have have young. <hes> and I know the popular topic is roads <hes> but it's not just roads <hes> it. It's I mean this. This is bigger than just green bay they of course but you know e- even if we talk about Green Bay <hes> how do we get people to care about more than you know <hes>. Let's not just bill big new shiny. Let's just let's let's pay taxes. Let's elect people are going to keep the machine going right and that's a good thing that's fine. They don't need to build a new. They don't need to build the new bullfrogs stadium. They don't need to build a new swimming Olympic size swimming pool. It's US two months out of the year no and do they really need to build a thirteen storey skyscraper right in the middle of downtown downtown. You know unless it's GonNa work out extremely well for the city and that's the math I can't get into but that better work out. That's not a risk right. It can't be risk. I think what we're doing is looking at developing the wrong areas of downtown. I mean the focus for the last sixteen Mhm Downtown you build the downtown. They'll come people. That's not something all of Green Bay embraces yeah they see the East town mall sitting empty they see so many areas of Phelps Avenue just looking like a garbage dump in some cases as you see wasted opportunity in what is known as the legends district you see on the other side of Lambofield Mhm titletown or what Schmidt wants to mock as Lambeau land has been destroying Green Bay. They can't do anything across the street because it's tall residential the locked into that but the legends district should have been radiating out towards Ashland and it sat and you don't even Jim Schmitz to me. He's got a he's got a plot sitting right there that he hasn't done anything with either right but they bought they bought a believe an old factory just north of there for a million dollars that Chris weary fought against. I don't know the details there. It was one of the last controversial acts of the last regime that got glossed stover and hopefully hopefully we are going to get into a transparent new era where no one has anything to gain by it. You Know Air Gun Rick <unk> doesn't have business partners that he has to grease the wheels of anymore right so <hes> what do you think about him. I think he is an extremely nice person and I think he will restore civility to the office. I think he'll restore honesty to the office. I have reservations about the continuation of the Status Quell because that's the way it's bad. I think we kind of voted for another term of the same. I think some when people voted for change I think they were hoping I'm not. I'm not a resident of Green Bay so I can't say where we voted for change. I was an impartial observer of the Jareth many race is you know and and I think he's you know you don't expect come out of the gate and get a lot of stuff don but so far he's just reissued affirmation of ecological awareness and reading you know you would know the details about that more than I something percent and by twenty fifty and you know his first city council meeting is coming up on Tuesday so we'll find out we'll find out a great great number of things little things that we don't know <hes>. Will he start the meeting with a prayer. That was something Jim Schmidt always stuck up to <hes> yeah. It'll be interesting. I guess there's no but you know <hes> he we share Alma Mater actually <hes> we both graduated from Notre Dame High School Private Catholic institutions so he is not one that throws his faith out there at all. We've shared stories about our high school experiences. Yeah you are really good at the segues man. Oh sorry now's every religion next. No that's perfect. That's perfect. We can do that yeah go. You're well known I mean this is this is I'm well no now you're well known about that so okay I mean when you've been quoted at least in the press gazette probably other places as well so so <hes> just paraphrase yeah yeah the paraphrase. I mean I already told Jacob. Put the explicit tag on your best bet is to look me up in the Archives of the Press Press Gazette and rig Paul's through this wrote. What I thought was an amazing article on me? Some people have said it portrayed me not not integrate light which came as a surprise to me because I thought it portrayed me exactly as I would like to be portrayed and if that isn't a good light then that's that's on you. Get the point where he says I make a lousy victim or I'll tell I'll tell everybody my story whether they wanna hear it or not I I will and I'll bring it up. I'll you know it's not like I'm shouting it from the rooftops or trying to get on every newscast I can and Blair about it had two instances where I carefully chose to make my thoughts known yeah and I am really been running around since and be fair. I asked you so no and now are we get to the point where someone's sets a fire in a church and people messaging me going. You got an alibi. Come on I've never once displayed any sort of volatility. It's all been cerebral roll from mate <hes> but the fact of the matter is the norbertine organization which a lot of people you really have to explain what they are this subset that isn't ruled by the Green Bay diocese they exist as their own personal bubble of of <hes> you know almost non-prosecution Houston no-one no-one dares go after them because they wield such power and influence with the Abbey and Saint Norbert College their brand into all I see I don't is that the norbertine there actually I believe they're ruled out of France. <hes> instead of the pope they have they are a sub sect of Catholicism their whole Gimmick. If you will is to live together <hes> so when they have a when they put a priest in a parish and a lot of other green bay diocese parishes they lived there at the residence at the parish. The norbertine steel is they all have to come back to the Abbey. They all live at the Abbey communal communal living is their thing and it is exactly as sick and wrong as it sounds based on my experience <hes> at least in those days they may have changed it now that they paved over the hot tub in the basement where they used to boys but that's what it used to be they would they would drive the poor kids back to the abbey so that the priests could have their way with them and then they would cook them dinner and clean up their their their sheets and then get driven driven back all the wild driven certifiably insane their damaged people out there by it some have yet to come to terms with it. I I was lucky to escape one of them targeted me and I brushed it off and I fought back and the thing is I felt guilty he ever since about not doing enough and when a friend came to me a few years ago with his story that's when I really decided to have it up and and it was at that point the one of the priests from back then was now in a position of authority at Saint Norbert College so I mentioned that in passing that hey this guy was at the high school now he's in a real position at the college and the college just they came after me for after that issuing all kinds of press releases about how false it was and and not now I can't even step on campus without security. You have me arrested. I can't even go get my transcripts transcripts and and it's it's a situation that I'll drop a dates on my facebook page because so many people say well. We're following knowing your story. We've got your back and that's that's everything I can do because in the time being since I started doing this the priest who assaulted me has died the Abbot <unk> Abbott the guy in charge of everything the guy who flat out said my allegations were proven false when they were never proven anything they decided not to prosecute him because he was in failing health. He ran the clock out and now they get the Sam Aligarh because it was never proven anything anything at all and until the D._A.. Says my allegations were credible. They're gonNA call me a liar while the providence the D._A.. Doesn't decide whether allegations are credible or not. That's a judge or a jury jury and so I'm stuck in limbo in terms of these guys and I don't know how to transition out of that one yeah so I mean so. Where do you leave that you know I just keep following every news story that they're involved in? You know I just I gotTa keep my eyes on them because I believe something's going to happen there. There And the college covered it up and the man covering it up was himself a pedophile and a rapist and it's just layer your upon layer of cover ups and lies they hire that hired an independent investigator to get to the bottom of it and then they released that to the press <hes> The independent investigator your came back and said well he drew his own conclusions box. Eleven been crumbled did an amazing story on it and these things fall upon deaf ears and I like make comments on facebook and get twenty to thirty likes and people saying we've got your back but it doesn't get anywhere where would where we would get on my hope. Is that David. Let's say the Brown County District Attorney would have done something about it but all we hear a statue of limitations statute of limitations of run out so for those of us from that time right and the police <hes> from what I hear they're actually right now. Actively refusing to release records <hes> there's going to be an investigation instigation in the press gazette. That's going to be coming up pretty soon about all of that okay but if you're police have not been cooperating with it yeah. I mean if there's some other if there's some other cover up that's especially really recent and it's going to be a thing yeah. I it is a powder keg that we've all been waiting to worry about this. Because the saint over college is very integrated into the the you know local. They are <hes> charities and they do a lot of good good things they do they do. There's a lot of good people that work there yeah. I know a lot of them. You probably know a lot of them. I do I do I and of course I know people on the inside lots of people on the inside but there's a few bad apples right so that makes it really we're to the point where the good people on the inside need to start start standing up to the bad apples yeah well I mean that becomes difficult if they're in a position where they can't do depends on. What's your paycheck worth you yeah? Is it worth dignity yeah yeah I if if they're watching and they know the problems they know exactly the one particular priest that I'm talking about. He's been the focal LCA point of all the investigations and frankly I don't know what he has on the president because it must be something so I mean this has been kind of a thing thing across the country you know universities are not a are not known for their acceptance of actual free speech <hes> so <hes> you know in in to varying degrees right you could even be a tenured professor. You say something that's wrong way to the wrong person in and yeah. Maybe you don't get fire but they make your life very difficult right so <hes> you know it's easy for me to say right. Nobody's going to fire me or make my maybe they will make my life life difficult. I don't know but I'm guessing that's the difference between public and private institution Yeah Yeah I mean they're well. They're they're private right. Saint Aubert is absolutely as private as one can be yeah yeah yeah so that's what you mean. Yes yeah so you think you're dealing with entirely different from set of rules so you think they would have to be more transparent to be absolutely yeah absolutely yeah I mean that's my take. I work there so the Saint Norbert <unk> basically owns and runs deep here I mean I think a half city council are employees of the college while it's huge yeah and I don't care about making enemies because they are refused to admit that I went there even though it's funny because that that that was what I used to be known for was the voice of Saint Over College for the mid-nineties. I started up their entire T._V.. Station in their sports department rely one of my my color announcer for football games still calls their hockey games. He's in their Arithmetic Hall of fame so it's like the route still run deep and I was very very proud of my college so how will be get you Bryant breese back in with them first of all Brian Breeze the president can take a phone call and meet with me instead of having me thrown off campus when I try to go meet with him but he could meet with you somewhere else it doesn't S._B._A.. Camp meet with me wherever he wants. It can be right here on set now. That would be great. Yeah I mean I am not. I wouldn't want to pressure anybody. No no it wouldn't but we could get some of those ratings things upright well but I mean to be fair like Jacob would edit things if that has driven right yeah yeah so. I don't know where we're at on time mm-hmm but <hes> I don't know if you have anything else where we need to hit. We needed to get back to politics at some point in time we ever watch. I hit you with the new breaking news. That's GONNA come out a little bit later now. You're you're charge. <hes> just a few days ago the Protection Policy Committee recommended to not renew the liquor license for El Presidente why on Washington because of problems problems with their nightclub operation on Friday and Saturday nights on Washington Street. It's been a bit of a problem with police so this is going to go before the Tuesday full all city council meeting whether or not to pull the liquor license from El Presidente could solve some problems with the nights a lot of other business owners up long Washington are really up in arms about the amount of trash in trouble that are left therefore bell president could still operate as as restaurant probably couldn't Margaritas anymore but apparently the the police departments that they have not been working with them in an attempt to get back on track so this is the story that you're going to start to see play out in the media over the next couple of days hearkens back to the last time this was really big thing was with Nick Moore Dance Club fifty six so that that's repeating now so is there like <hes>. Is it like particularly like young people that are going there. I mean what what's the actual problem without a not super <hes> I don't I don't I don't frequent Washington street anymore. No no it is. It's hard to say this in a politically correct way Elliott yeah there's problems with the sardine can on the west side yeah because it's an old drunk white crowd right that is not the case at L. President but that's what I was getting yeah yeah. It's it's hard to put it gently. Yeah and it's the same situation you had at club fifty six right and it's a matter of it's GonNa go the nucleus the US of this. You're going to have to have cop sitting outside but where can it be and now Washington street doesn't want it on Washington street so do you punish the restaurant for that well if they're not working and they didn't even send a representative to protection policy yeah and they're just asking to have it pulled probably so it it could be a thing. I hope it doesn't explode into a racial thing which is why we softly draw the illusion yeah it's not but he is. I tend to just stop around the city in the summer like Batman taking pictures of things. It's just a thing I do 'cause it's fun and lots of arguments arguments and fights and just public throwing up over outside of that is I mean okay so I mean so to point. I mean I you know it's interesting. The distinction sanctioned you know they didn't send someone to work with the city but like how much is the city and the police tried to work with them. Apparently the the the police is WHO representative at the committee said that they have reached out. They have tried to deal with them in that L.. President has not reached back have not been cooperative. That's up for them to decide. I'm just repeating Leno Yeah. You're not in charge of this. I'm just trying to hit you with the hot topic come by the time maybe they'll that's really set. That's interesting yeah so so I don't have anything else okay. I always come back yeah cool. I appreciate you coming so everybody should continue this discussion and facebook on the he political radar community in the Llama on the blind partisan community on facebook as well. Please check out our Patriot patriot dot com slash fashioned newsmakers right Jacob thanks for being so attentive Jacob and on the edge of his then of course whatever you're watching this on or listening to this on police hit subscribe then you get alerted when there's new episodes thanks that's route. Thanks for listening to political radar to ensure that you never miss an episode. Subscribe on Itunes or your favorite podcast APP to stay up-to-date visit

Jacob Green Bay T._v US facebook Mayor Schmidt producer president Elliott marijuana Jerry Jerry City Council Muhammed Muhammed Muhammed New Hampshire Brian Breeze Tom Terry Jason Jerry Beck
Show 1195: Do You Need Spine Surgery?

People's Pharmacy

1:00:47 hr | 1 year ago

Show 1195: Do You Need Spine Surgery?

"I'm Joe Graydon Terry Graydon. Welcome to this podcast of the People's pharmacy you can find previous podcasts. And more information on a range range of health topics at people's firm AC- dot com the People's pharmacy podcast disappointed in part by COCO via cocoa via coca. Local flavonoids support both cardiovascular health and cognitive function by promoting healthy blood flow transporting oxygen and nutrients to vital organs and muscles including your heart and brain cocoa via now comes an even more concentrated formula with four hundred fifty milligrams of coq AU flavonoids five five times more than the leading dark chocolate bar and fifteen times more than the leading cocoa powder cocoa via has a proprietary process is that preserves cocoa flavonoids at the highest levels and the product undergoes rigorous testing at every stage which allows them to guarantee the highest level of cocoa go fly anals per serving and to provide the purest highest quality product possible people's pharmacy listeners. Can now try coca via for twenty five percent off by using the code people's twenty-five at coca via DOT COM that's C. O. C. O. A. V. I a. a dot Com. Millions of people suffer from back pain in some cases surgery is essential but other times it can cause complications. And this is the people's pharmacy with Terry. And Joe Graydon Marco and broke his back when his horse went rogue although he survived a terrible accident back surgery left marking chronic pain eventually spine surgeon. David handsome came up with a different approach for marks pain. Here's Dr Hans. Come quick to go practice because the situation site mark because because we're doing surgery on normal spines and really hurting people. When is back surgery crucial? And when is it counterproductive coming up on the people's inspire messy a retired spine surgeon reveals the inside story about back pain and surgery in the People's Pharmacy Health Headlines Infectious Disease. Experts are fearful that this year's flu season could be one of the worst I in recent memory the CDC just released estimates that nearly three thousand people have died of flu and worth. Fifty thousand had been hospitalized. This season a record number of children have died so far. An unusual feature of the twenty nineteen twenty. Twenty flu season is that influenza B. has dominated in the early weeks most winters the first flu cases earn more likely to be one strain or another of influenza A.. The holidays may have helped spread influenza viruses from one end of the country to the other. Some flu experts worry that the type of h three N to a strain that was especially really severe and Australia could wreak havoc in Europe and North America this season. It's unclear whether this year's vaccine will protect against that particular dealers strain of influenza. Aspirin is one of our oldest drugs. It's been a popular over the counter. Pain relievers since eighteen ninety nine. Although there's been controversy about its role in preventing heart attacks cancer researchers are now excited about the potential for aspirin to prevent or control control common tumors an epidemiological study published in Jama Network Open tracked nearly a hundred fifty thousand cancer patients for more than twelve twelve years. Those who took aspirin at least three times a week were less likely to die. During the study people with colorectal cancer got the most benefit an animal study published in the Journal carcinogenesis demonstrated aspirin slows the development of tumors in the colon particularly in mice with the gene that makes them susceptible to this kind of cancer. The lead author suggests that aspirin promotes cancer cell death and inhibits tumor growth around the turn of the twenty first century. Drug companies started advertising testosterone. On television they suggested that many men suffered from I'm low T.. That could be reversed by using testosterone as skin patches. Topical Gels or shots. The idea was that such a treatment would make middle aged and older guys feel young again restoring their strength energy and sex drive and implicitly their erections as well how well testosterone works for such problems and whether the benefits are outweighed by an increased risk of heart attacks or strokes has been an open question. There's there's no doubt that men's testosterone levels tend to drop with age though. The decline is steadier than women's lower estrogen levels at menopause. The American college the physicians has just offered guidelines for doctors prescribing testosterone according to the guidelines doctors would be justified in prescribing testosterone osterode for low libido and erectile difficulties but not for other purposes. The effectiveness for each patient should be reviewed at least annually. The the guidelines recommend intramuscular injections rather than topical testosterone. Because it's significantly less expensive over. The last two decades billions of dollars have been spent seeking effective treatments for Alzheimer's disease. The majority of the money has been spent trying to combat Beta data amyloid rain plaque today. None of that research has been fruitful. A new study in the journal neurology challenges the prevailing hypothesis behind behind most of those drugs studies. The investigators detected memory deficits and cognitive dysfunction prior to Beta amyloid plaque buildup. They concluded that amyloid might be a reaction rather than a cause of Alzheimer's disease for years nutrition scientists have suspected that magnesium is important for heart health. A new study confirms their suspicions. Researchers evaluated more than fourteen thousand participants in the ATHEROSCLEROSIS neurosis risk and community studies over twenty seven years. Those with low serum magnesium early in the study were twenty eight percent more likely to develop coronary artery jury disease. Scientists still don't know whether increasing serum magnesium with supplements or dietary adjustments would reduce the risk of heart disease but foods like leafy vegetables whole grains nuts and legumes are considered helpful in maintaining healthy magnesium leftists. And that's the health news from the People's is pharmacy this week. Welcome to the People's pharmacy. I'm Terry Gross and I'm Joe Graydon. Today we're talking about back pain and spine surgery three. How could you tell if you needed back? Surgery later in the show we'll talk with spine surgeon. Dr David Handsome. But we WANNA start with a story from. I'm one of his patients. Mark Owens worked in Africa as a wildlife scientist. He had numerous risky adventures there. But it wasn't until he returned turn to the US and was writing a horse on treacherous terrain that he broke his back in a horrific accident he endured multiple spine surgeries surgeries for the resulting chronic pain. Then he met Dr David Handsome. WHO changed his entire approach to his back pain? Welcome welcome back to the People's Pharmacy Marco and well thank you Joe. It's nice to be here and I appreciate your hosting me so mark you. You've done some pretty pretty astonishing things throughout your life. You've you've been in some very dangerous situations but it was a horseback riding accident. That really really took you out. Can you describe what happened. Well yes I was writing up with a friend up in the mountains above Libby Montana in the cabinet mounts actually looking for Grizzly bears. I'M A wildlife biologist field researcher and We were looking for signs of Grizzly bears. And we were coming out the dark that night after writing way up in the mountains and My horse suddenly blew up under me and went tearing off down the trail and pitch dark and Threw me off at high speed and I landed across a limb which crush my chest from the left side and then broke my back in two places and punctured my lung and left me to die at their. I'm sure it wasn't intentional. On the horses part but that was was the outcome well in any event obviously you could have died. I almost did I hi up from hypothermia by time Search and rescue got to me. hike me out to a helicopter landing spot by dawn so Yes it was close and they flew me to Calcio Regional House. Bill and Montana and I had an emergency surgery and they put about Fourteen inches of a ladder of steel in my back to stabilize my spine and And that began actually my Journey through chronic chronic pain for nine years at that point. I went home thinking I was going to be somewhat limited but actually I remember well. My surgeon said that Ned Wilson said to me as I was leaving now mark. The rest of your life is going to be a lot about pain management and I only have heard him because I thought well I could do better at that. I've overcome a lot of things I can do. Better than just sorta tolerating a little bit of pain. I mean what did did you end up dealing with for nine years. What was that paying? Well I it's hard to describe to anyone who's never had acute chronic pain but I would I don't even know hardly know where to begin because it is so other worldly. It's it's difficult find commonality between what people people normally experienced in pain and people who have chronic pain for years. That's so cute but The first thing I I guess I'll start by waking coming up on morning you'll open your eyes and the first thing you get is a lightning bolt of pain to your lower back and your legs and and It's so intense you can. It would take minutes to get out of bed minutes before I could talk for myself On my feet when it was really bad I was walking around hanging onto furniture if I was walking around at all. It just dominates your life. It's like calving Attached to the second year by Taliban away moment by moment every moment of your life. And even when you're asleep you're not not really asleep because the pain is knowing that you and this went on for how long nine years basically did you ever lose. Hope I did almost post I after my second surgery. I was in such horrendous pain that I actually reached for a bottle of analgesics so three times to end my life. For some reason I stopped myself and Well tell us about your interaction action with Dr Handsome and in particular his recommendation to begin expressive writing. Tell us what that is. What are the steps What's the daily practice? How long you do it each day? I mean really give us a sense of what that means. Okay well I was over the years years between my accident at two thousand six and after my second surgery in two thousand twelve I. I'd seen probably close I. I think around ten different surgeons and most of them recommended Extreme surgeries that would break my back in a couple of places and replace the hardware are with another ladder of steel and on and on and on and all of it was just really extreme and high risk and with very little chance of of much of over recovery and I left the office of the last surgeons who recommended all that and I said to my friend. I've got to have a second opinion. So I found my way to doctor David Hanson Seattle and David looked at my images and then walked in and the first thing he said to me was I'm afraid afraid. I'm not going to recommend surgery and I just looked at him and my jaw dropped and said you can't be I said but everybody I've seen for years. I said I have to have surgery and he said well. I don't see anything in your images warrant surgery and I'M NOT GONNA operate unless I can find a one to one correspondence between and what the dysfunction in your back and and the actual pain you're feeling and I don't see that he said and I feel that's what I really felt hopeless. I thought Oh. Oh my God if he if he's not gonNA cut me I'm not going to be okay in. The sense is what I was thinking and I said well what am I supposed to do. I'm not imagining. Hasn't this pain. And he said No. It's real all right but it's not coming from your back is coming from your brain and I just I just thought what is he talking about from my brain and he went on to explain that that after one experiences inches extreme pain for more than two months or so the brain rewires itself to support that pain signal. Whether or not the dysfunction in a distant lamb I am more. Parts of your anatomy. Actually is is Is Involved in the pain. It's rather like the Phantom Limb Syndrome. Where you the doctor amputates but the pain is still there after the limb has gone so tell us about expressive writing? And why something like that could help. Yeah so David needed to start on this new journey to try to rid yourself of pain without surgery by doing something. We call expressive writing. And I said well what's that and he said. Well you sit down in the morning for fifteen minutes and at night for fifteen minutes and you write down every negative thought they comes into your mind and any right down longhand and as each as you generate each one. You tear it up individually you. Don't wait for page. Tear up each one as you write it and I just looked at him and I I gotTa tell you. I says he's were Mike. Act where I sit talk to the snake oil to me and he said well you you can be cut if you want to. You can be filleted like I haven't if you want to but you may as well try this and and He said there's a lot of research out there that suggests that AH writing these thoughts down these negative thoughts in the morning and night creates a distance between the thought on the wiring in your brain and allows your brain to start rewiring wiring itself independently of those negative neuro pathways support the pain signal. So I thought well what the Heck I'll give it a shot a- and So I sat down for fifty minutes. I wrote out you know these thoughts and And they need to be very descriptive. If you word if you use curse words. You write them down there in your head you write them down. And when did you first sense. Is that something might have shifted. I went to bed that night. I completely forgot that I had done any writing when I woke up. It wasn't even my mind wasn't my mind mind was. I was waiting for the usual bolt of pain. But it didn't come that morning. I didn't remember them. I'd written the night before and I just thought what's different effort here and it was on my feet in a matter of a minute or so several minutes and And then I remembered that I'd done that writing and I just thought I saw my friend that can't be the reason I can't. It can't be working this fast but I tried it again that that next night and to make a long story short within thirty six hours I would estimate that I was eighty. Eighty five percent pain free after nine years. Be a little more specific. help us understand this expressive writing thing. What did you write about honestly? It's really a matter rain down any. If you have worries about finances finances you said you might write down. I'm afraid I'M GONNA run out of money before I. I reached the end of my life in retirement or I just lost the love. I love my life. I I don't see how I can go on But you do them individually again and in Longhand care them up individually and throw them away individually individually now. How are you feeling today? I am amazed I go for weeks. I just went for three weeks without taking one analgesic. Not Not even tylenol and I ride horses. I live on a ranch. Wildlife Conservatory and I use a chainsaw. And I I do just about everything I did before but I am seventy five so I have slowed down a little bit. I ride my horses and do you still do the expressive prescribing. I do I do and I do relapse and that it works every time I every time I relapse I doubt and I write and I could literally really feel not all the time but sometimes I can when I sit down and start writing. I can feel whatever troubling me. Lifted off my shoulders almost and and It sounds almost like something you do in kindergarten. But it's it's for real and they're over a thousand papers scientific papers out there that that now support the notion that it does work and so I- highly recommended for anybody who's under stress or torment or a pain or anything and it. It works with emotional pain just as well as it does with a physical pain. Mark Owens thank you so much talking with us again on the People's pharmacy. You're most welcome. I really enjoyed it. Thank you Joe and Terry. You've been listening. To Mark Owens describe how how expressive writing was able to help manage his back pain successfully without additional spine surgery after the break. We'll talk with Dr David Pinski about the treatment he recommended for. Marco inspect your hands. Come no longer perform spinal surgery. How did he decide to stop? We discuss the pros and cons of spine surgery. How surgeons rethink their process surgery useful? And how would a patient now. How common is long-lasting back pain? That doesn't require surgery. You're listening to the People's pharmacy with Joe and Terry Graydon. The People's firmly podcast is sponsored in part by Kaya -biotics K. A. Y. -biotics offers the first probiotics attics. which are both certified organic end? HYPO allergenic all. probiotics are produced in Germany under laboratory conditions with high quality ingredients gradients and under strict regulatory oversight the three available formulas are created for very specific purposes such as strengthening the immune system fighting fighting infections and helping with weight loss to learn more about Kaya -biotics probiotics and the important topic of gut health. You can visit their website insight Kaya -biotics dot com that's K. A. Y. -biotics dot com. Use the discount code people for ten dollars off your first purchase. Welcome back to the People's pharmacy. I'm Terry Grayton. I'm Joe Graydon. The People's pharmacy is brought to you in part by COCO via maker of high potency. Cocoa flat-panel supplements that support cognitive and cardiovascular health more information at Koko via dot com also by Verizon WanNa an analytical laboratory providing home health test for hormones gut health and the microbiome online at V. E. R. I I S. A. N. A. dot com today. Our topic is back pain and how surgery might fit into its treatment. We just heard from Mark Owens about pain resulting from a broken back now we turn to the surgeon he consulted. We're talking. Today with Dr David Handsome. He retired hired in two thousand eighteen from his orthopedic surgical practice in which he specialized in correcting complex spinal deformities his most recent book is do. Do you really need spine. Surgery take control with advice from a surgeon. Welcome back to the People's pharmacy doctor. David Hanson. Tom Terry very excited to be back on the show. Dr Hans Skim. We have just finished speaking with mark. Owens he he has described a really remarkable recovery. I mean most people wouldn't believe it was even possible and I'm wondering how unusual was his recovery. From what could have been a an impossible an impossible back injury that that never allowed him to do anything meaningful again. Well if you understand the details the story from a medical perspective is not unusual at title first of all hit a spine those normal for his age. He has some distal generation which by the way has not been correlated with back pain. It is simply not a cause back pain. He had nothing wrong actually quit my surgical practice because it's like mark because we're doing surgery on normal spine and really hurting. People in Mark. Stories is the norm. The only thing unusual about mark story is that he has such a huge operation recommended and he quickly but it wasn't perfect. Committee is ups and down along the way but this is what happens when chronic pain is a solvable problem. Medicine looks at it as a problem to be managed not solved and we see people going pain for all the time. This is a normal story. Dug their hands come. You just mentioned that you quit your surgical practice. You were identified as a spine surgeon very skilled. Can you tell us more about that decision to stop doing spine surgery. Well what happened. I started surgery. Practice in Nineteen eighty-five in for eight years. I was aggressive. I thought surgery was the answer. I feel L. guilty if I could not find a reason to perform surgery and then in nineteen ninety three the data came out that said there is no data to support doing it. The success rate for very back fusion for back pain is about twenty percent so I just stopped. But I didn't know what to do so I started myself to go into a horrible abyss of chronic pain. For About Fifteen fifteen years. I came out of action. I did not know what had happened to me. I did not know who I got into it. I did not know how audit in about ten years ago. I I started sharing these tools with my patients again. Not known what I was doing and people start getting better. And then the process kept evolving. The neuroscience came up to speed or I came mattress. Speedo thorough science in the last five years have just been remarkable us on more and more people getting better without any interventions as far as risk and then. I saw people every week three to five times every week. They're having major surged on a normal spines and saw situation where I saw a couple of people that are paralyzed with surges. That they didn't need in. I just felt like it especially sought to control what I had to do what I could do to stop this Juggernaut of spine surgery. Let me interrupt you right there because you said that you were doing a lot of I think you said Lumbar fusion. Was that what you referred to right. What is that right so right now? This which ironic so lumbar fusions are when you well-defined together. One or two levels to stabilize the the desk to stop the pain which ironic is at disc degeneration which is the reason to do. The surgery has been well documented to not be a source of pain. So we're doing an operation to solve pain on a structure that's been documented to not be a source of pain with Marco antidepressant bones version. Degeneration that was it it and we also know that acute pain resides in the pain. Part of the brain chronic pain goes to the emotion center is a completely different problem. So what you have to do you have to rewire the circuits. And what happens. We're actually doing these major interventions without any data. There's not one research paper the documents that we should be doing a fusion for for back pain. There's absolutely no papers that document that we are methodically applying known principles to solve of pain in my book back and controls really just the standard of medical care. There's nothing new in that book. They're all well established deepest average medical practices for inches mark I'm sure talking about the expressive writing. There's over one thousand research papers. The documents effectiveness of expressive writing got bigger. WHO's been a my podcast? CAST started this in nineteen eighty two. I interviewed him about six months ago. An over thousand research. Papers that documented this little technique simple techniques to be writing on your thoughts thoughts carrying them up changes autoimmune disorders. Asthma colitis anxiety depression student performance performance athletic performance. It's unbelievable I never heard about it. Nobody taught me that in medical school residency training or fellowship. Nobody ever taught us to to me some going. Why so get one research paper? The documents to the despite fusion works for back pain. It's up over ten billion dollars a year in the United States the downside is actually about about forty to fifty percent chance of making you worse knowing about a twenty to thirty percent. Chance of making you better is actually almost double the chance of making any worse than it does make you better. Better Dr Hanson. My uncle was a farmer a dairy farmer and he said farmers liked to plow and Surgeons like to cut absolutely and so how. How do you break out of that pattern if that's what you love doing? And that's what you've been trained to do. How do you step back from the the urge you the the old phrase when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail right? How do you help your colleagues rethink that? They're not that's why the patient has got to take responsibility for his wrong. CARE is just going to change. I mean all the years I've have over a thousand patients that are gonNa pain-free. We have over one hundred patients with surgical lesions that have gone to pain-free not one colleague asked me well others really interesting eighteen. What's going on not one call yesterday? That question so the surgeons are not GonNa Change. I've given that up. I tried it for twenty years and I'm not going to become Democrat Which I'm not trying to Irish dance surgeon to train this way? As one of the sergeants by self by handgun through my own severe chronic pain process. I never would have had any insight to what's going on so I don't WanNa crucify given surgeon but the culture and now the business medicines actually pushing US hard to to do procedures that have been documented to be ineffective. Well let me interrupt here and ask you when spine surgery really must be done and let me tell you a story. A man goes into the emergency department at his local hospital complaining of lower back pain. He mentions to the nurse that he was also having some bladder problems in some numbness in his legs. But when the doctor came in you know rushing around in the emergency department and asked what the problem was. The patient focused primarily on his back pain thinking. Hey I already told us talk about the bladder. I told her about the numbness. The nurse never told the doctor and the information about the bladder problems apparently fell all through a crack and was not communicated and because this wasn't the first time that the patient had ended up in the emergency department with a back problem. The doctor probably wasn't too concerned. The patient was released from the emergency department with a diagnosis of a back problem. Several hours there's later. He was admitted to another hospital where he was diagnosed with something called. C. E. S. l.. Quite how to pronounce it. But I would guesstimate mate cow quota acquinas Syndrome and gun Kata Syndrome and this can sometimes Lead to some pretty serious consequences if untreated in his case it ended up causing paralysis of the legs permanent loss of bowel and bladder control and probably a complete change in his life so it it seems like in this particular situation surgery would have been necessary and it needed to be an emergency that brings up another problem In medicine right now. The business medicine is limited our time with patients. There's too little time too. Many patients and that's called one of the red flag symptoms uh-huh and is really the doctor's responsibility to get the full history once you label patient at with whatever. Don't listen to the poll history. You're always at risk. So so I picked up bladder cancer pelvic floor tumors cited notch tumors tumors and spinal cord. Because you take that extra history and you get a set of symptoms terms. That are a little unusual unusual weight loss changing appetite some fevers etc and we have what's called Red Flag symptoms. You have to move forward so I'm not against spines. Hurry I am against is sponsored to be done a normal spines. We'll tell us what. So that's the classic scenario. That's a huge problem. What is see? Es Cada acquainted syndrome So what happens. You have a big is called a central disc rupture in the spinal cord. which at the first lumbar vertebrae below that? The lower backers has nervous floating around card economies Latin for Horse's tail. And what happens. These massive descriptors really squeezing their roots the other nerves go the go to the balanced or go to the legs and you WanNa get out of there within twenty four hours preferably faster if I have a patient with even a history like that just a hint of it. Oh actually call the operating room and said look the operating room ready will prepare the room. Scam back comes back. Negative will cancel the case of course but if it needs to be done. We'll do it almost instantly and we've had good success different that way but no classic snare that happens all the time with the addition people moving too fast. I one patient. Asian quadriplegic missed diagnosis in the room. Another woman homeless affected spine again. Missing them up pretty room at a relative hood missed infection election. His neck almost died almost please but yeah. Medicine's moving very very quickly. And we're not getting the full story. Dr Hans Scum. Your New Book Luke is do you really need spine surgery and what you're suggesting is that if your spine is normal I'm I'm using air quotes. You don't need spine surgery. How would a patient now if the spine is normal? What did did Berg is? I really just define for choices. One choice is. Is there a structural problem that that you can see you call that type Weiner's structural or spine normal for your age. No his desk justice degeneration or the symptoms match the problem. So you have to have have a lesion and symptoms that match in order for it to be fixed if your nurses to Miss Com. That's great if you're nervous. System is sensitized is in under a lot of stress. We do know that the surgical results are quite poor. So technically if you take a person who's calm relaxed and they have a ruptured disc. Kirti works well. If you're going to divorce or some life event it doesn't work as well but she can still deal with it but if there's nothing there to fix there's nothing to do and somehow there's sort of an urban legend that okay. We'll try this try surgery. What makes no set? There's nothing in there to fix. And that's the key to the book of I accomplish one thing with the book is as Only the definitive solution. If you can see the problem call them and the symptoms match. That are beautifully probably seventy percents. Surety probably should not be done right now. Now you have a a lovely graphic early in the book Therapeutic Grid Treatment Grid in which you actually lay this out on paper justice you you have Described it to us either. There's a structural problem in which surgery is an option. And either you are feeling calm or you're under under stress. The approach is different either way although surgery is still an option for either of those or there's no structural problem that that is connected to the symptoms and in that case despite whether you're com or stress surgery is not an option. How how does a patient go about figuring out where they belong on that grid? What I did? I described the journal Nature Structural problem in other words. There's a tumor or or infection or should the spines unstable or the. There's a pinched nerve. Those are all structural problems. She have one of those. You do not have a structural problem now. What happened in chronic pain again? I will blame the medical profession. Not Individual doctors but patients have severe pain in the bathroom and medical system. The pain becomes worse and worse and worse and of course they're desperate and of course pain is real and it would make sense for something into be done. Definitively to solve the problem and solvable by actually calmed down the nervous system not by doing procedure. There's a paper that came out last month in the the journal pain that showed that no intervention no structural intervention works in the presence of chronic. Pain not one in any part of the body not one Dr Handsome. I'd like to share my story with you so last year in the winter we had a pretty good sized snowstorm and we lost power and foolishly. I lifted a generator which is very heavy piece of equipment and Within a couple of days I was in pretty serious back pain now. I've had back pain pretty much my whole life and I just deal with it well this time. It didn't go away as it usually does and it lasted and lasted and after several weeks I went to see my massage assange therapist. I went to see a chiropractor. They both recommended physical therapy. I began doing physical therapy I got an x array. They said Oh man. Your back is a mess. You've got deterioration you've got this that and the other thing and let's just keep doing it well. A month went by two months. went by four months went by. I was still in pretty severe pain but then gradually over about about the fifth month it began letting up and about five and a half six months after this accident. I was back playing tennis. which made my life much happier her bottom line? I suspect that if a neurosurgeon looked at my x ray or cat scan. Or M. I I would have probably been council that I needed surgery because it was quote unquote such a mass but eventually with physical therapy in these other. Modalities I was able to get it back to functioning. I wonder how often that happens all the time. That's the problem right there. That's just classic Scenario Textbook Story. Remember those bone spurs have been there for years. They're still there. Something happened to your back by the way we did. A research image on your brain called a functional M. Skin you had a bad back sprain in the pensioner light up now. The painter last two nine to twelve months. The pain from the paint center to the emotional center becomes memorized then is a problem. And then I don't know if you had other stresses in your life at the time that actually is a factor. Sometimes you may have the same back injury in begun in two weeks. If we've gone through some major life events that same injury will last for months at a time or just by the rest of the brain I mean. If you're under some personal stresses or external circumstances that are unpleasant that ups risk of developing chronic pain dramatically. And you're right on the edge. Six months is sort of tipping point. Where we're either resolves or it can go on to become a chronic problem but again they're two different entities? You're listening to Dr David handsome. An orthopedic complex spinal deformity surgeons who retired in two thousand eighteen. After thirty two years in practice. His most recent book is do you really need spine surgery. Take control with advice from a surgeon after the break will learn more about Dr Haskins personal experience experience with chronic pain triggered the anxiety and stress. That was driving his pain. Dr Hanson recommends that people direct their own care. How can they do that? You're listening to the People's pharmacy with Joe and Terry Graydon. This people's pharmacy podcast is brought to you in part by Verizon A- dot Com verizon lab offers home health tests that allow you you to monitor your hormone health conditions you can take control of the quantitative assessment of your health and learn about male and female hormone own balance the stress Hormone Cortisol Leaky Gut. Gluten intolerance or your gut microbiome take a more active role in in trucking your health and take twenty percent off your first order of a male intesting opportunity with the discount code. People that's P. The L. P. L. E. All upper case to learn more go to verizon dot com that's V. E. R. I S. A An A. dot com. Welcome back to the People's firm I'm Joe Graydon and I'm Terry Graydon. The People's pharmacy is brought to you. In part by COCO via offering plant-based plant-based nutrients in the form of coq AU flavonoids for brain and heart health online at Koko via dot com and by Kaya -biotics probiotic way out of products made in Germany from certified organic ingredients that K. A. Y. A. -biotics dot com. We're discussing pain pain control today. On the People's pharmacy we've been focusing on back pain and the potential role of spine surgery and treating it but millions of people have to deal with many other types of chronic pain. What can they do? Our guest. Is Dr David Handsome Orthopedic Complex Spinal deformity surgeon who retired in two thousand eighteen today. Dr Hans comes. Mission is to reintroduce true healing into medicine. His books include back in control. Control a surgeons road map out of chronic pain. His most recent book is do you really need spine surgery. Take control with advice vice from a surgeon. Dr Hans Come. You learned about chronic pain first hand can you tell us about your personal experience with chronic pain. What you learn from it? Well what I've learned is that anxiety is the pain it turns out that emotional pain and physical Japan. Go to the same part of the brain. You get the same chemical response. The prominent humans have is is that they can't escape their thoughts and what happened. I was a master supressing stress. I might or to bring it on. I went to one of the spine fellowships in the world. I was a high level sponsor to for many years. Spines consider the most stressful practices in medicine. And I did. I was fine. I went from being a fearless surge into crippling. Thanks Hardy in one day did not come out of the whole for thirteen years. I thought the psychological it is not exotic justice sensation generated by your stress chemicals chemicals. The problem is this survival. Response is eleven million times is. I'm sorry a million times stronger than the conscious brain. Every human being has has a sings already. Survival response anxiety is just the sensation generated by your survival hormones I could driven cortisol and history means just like laying on the beach full of oxytocin dopamine. Serotonin you feel relaxed. Relaxed is not a diagnosis and neither is anxiety. Is just a symptom in the key issue. What I've found out over years is that what really drives people insane literally with pain is actually the mental pain? So he's trying to the OPIOID epidemic of all my centers. I had for fifteen years. The already was relentless it was unbearable. I was suicidal. In physical. Pain was what it was if I give my patients choice of saying look I can do surgery do your your pain or your arm pain or you can get rid of your anxiety or I'm sorry you can get rid of your anxiety. Everybody wants to get rid of the anxiety. Eighty the anxiety is just unbearable and it's supposed to be unbearable because survival sensation that compels you take action to resolve it. Humans can escape through thoughts so all of us are subject to some level of anxiety based on our background and our level of intrusive thoughts but it turns out that's Twi in essence. I quit spicer to because we're doing sure to cope procedures on anxiety. We're doing physical interventions for mental pain. And that's the essence of the problem. Do you Miss Spine Surgery. Yep I like being part of the team I like being talking to patients. I seen people get better. We'd have weekly teaming easily training people how to do chronic pain better but we sort of a SWAT team approach. We were really good at this. And so yeah I miss it. I Like my colleagues leagues like the atmosphere in the trenches. I mean surgeons as you know where we we'd like to work but I'm learning. I only Sam retired. Take my wife says a refired. I've just fired up again going in a different direction but yeah I like taking care of patients in light like seeing better. We just had the best time I mean. The the data showing twenty supercenter physicians actually are comfortable managing chronic pain less than one percent. Enjoy A and I have to tell you become by far and away. The most enjoyable part one of my career is not people thought any hope in Washington come out of the whole story. Last week of a gentleman nightmare met he worked at the Pan. Psychologists in Sacramento is a gang member who has lost his leg shooting he developed. Severe Phantom then pain. He was not a nice guy angry vindictive truth. Medical System hydrog stark heartaches within three months pain disappeared no narcotics. He's going back to scold. We come a drug counselor at that is a great success story. But we here again. We hear these all the time just different variations of Soekarno pain is curable in the medical profession. Doesn't see it that way but yeah there's there's a small handful probably Howie. Listen probably less than half of percent of this country are seen each other is a chronic. Pain is solvable problem but again the mental pain is is by far away. The bigger problem yet the bipolar depression teen chronic pain. The suicide the operator driven by mental pain and again the core issue issue is anxiety which is not psychological is neuro chemical and by missing the diagnosis right now. Psychologically were really doing a disservice to our our country. I've fifteen people right now. That are friends of friends that I'm coaching. And is common them down in the page disappearing. Can I ask what it was. That triggered your chronic pain. What emotional were anxiety? Experience brought this on WanNa look backwards. You know when the symptoms of courses migraine headaches. Those actually started when I was five. I was raised in an extraordinarily abusive background mother. Who basically retrospect with psychotic Arctic bipolar rages angry physically abusive and so I didn't realize that was not normal cores in underdeveloped? Reena my ears. There's burning in my feet headaches. Back pain neck pain. My feet started a burn due out. PTSD over thirty symptoms that translate because what happens happens when you have sustained exposure to elevated stress chemicals each organ response in his own unique. Wait that's why that's why that's why there's over thirty physical Symptoms that come from this elevated levels of stress chemicals and so is seventeen room at the same time. I was miserable beyond words. I'm fine and it started with his tiny mark. Talked about is expressive. Writing your thousand research. Papers that I now know about the document that it works when I work with my patients to pull them out of chronic pain. It's a simple exercise. Your right on your thoughts. Can you tell them up. And then what you're doing you're actually breaking through these. He's obsessive circuits. I Call Phantom brain pain just like Phantom limb pain for some other writing I call a mental Jackhammer is outbreaks with these circuits when asked after Penny Baker. How it works at work she goes? I don't know but some have externalisation over euthanasia is is that you cannot escape your thoughts but you can separate from and so yeah after fifteen years of doing everything a magician. I'd reactions to every thing you could imagine that simple act of starting the writing exercises sorry started to break up. My Pain and within sixty show is quite a bit better within six months. I was fine. Now tell us just a little bit more about this expressive writing being exercise so it doesn't matter if you're spelling or punctuation is okay. You're just writing. What are you writing anything? Just free thoughts the regional. You turn them up for two reasons. One of them is right with freedom. Because it's the thought that you suppressor become your monsters in other words obsessive thought powders come from China suppress unpleasant bizarre thoughts and so I don important right now. Positive thoughts is fine. Most most of the research has been done by rain down. Intense emotional experiences been desert way matter two to three comte neak by Dr David Burns in the book. Feeling good that also. There's another way of doing the writing. Both running does it separate. You knows you can't control your thought but the thoughts on the table. You're here what you're doing your stupidity when they call neural plasticity which causes the brain actually changed structure she evan awareness and separation in one move and then the redirecting program where she still your brain. The changes where he called active meditation were even right now. Just feel reasserting drop your shoulders. It what you're doing. You're switching from thoughts to different sensory input and between the awareness and seperation the writing combined with the actor meditation. That's always a starting point. What else is helpful helpful? And I'm I'm thinking about some of the conditions that humans are susceptible to whether it's anxiety or depression or PTSD addiction to substances. Whether it be alcohol or opioids tell us a little bit more about how the expressive writing can work for a number of conditions. And what else you recommend so every website back in control dot com and it goes to people to a sequence. That helps you reprogram your brain and so in Stage one. We have the express running combined with meditation. Another strategy which sounds interesting has been very very powerful is not discussion rushmere pain no complaining. 'cause your brains can develop replaces attention. And if you're tend to John Seeking a cure solve the problem. You're actually reinforcing the problem. That's why talk therapy alone cannot doesn't work so in other words you're trying to do is not get people into the Rut of going. Oh my back it just. It's it's killing me. The more they say that the more reinforces it absolutely again. It's not a complicated process but it is stepwise. which is you create a visual? What do I want my life to look like? It's like learning a new language. And then how do you execute that plan now as you don't learn French by trying not to speak English. You'RE NOT GONNA learn how to come out a chronic pain trying to fix the pain into what you're doing you create a vision of what you want without the pain as you move towards that vision then you don't use pain pathways as much. It's a very paradoxical process. That's why subjective because because your brain changes every second is called Neuro Pasta City every second your brain develops new neurons new connections new mylan. Your brain changes continually in what you're doing on your guiding the brain of change the direction that you want if you don't do that to default languages survival relentless Saudis which your body's supposed to do to survive again again. I call it a cursive consciousness. Humans cannot escape their thoughts. And so again like this little active meditation exercise you simply switching from some thoughts to different sensation. The second level which is more complex but again really critical is forgiveness versus play when you're angry buys full of stress. Chemicals take a very high level at player full of the play chemicals in a wonderful way the essence. The solution is that you're connecting to your own capacity to heal hole which allows you to automate your body's chemistry so what you're doing. It's not psychological as neurochemical as you become aware of the things that are stimulating. Letting your nervous system you connect to who you are. Use the tools to switch directions. It becomes stronger with repetition and again my apprentice was was zero. I mean people looking. How can that be? I can look at any person pants. You look. You are suffering Lop and you do not. You're not suffering more than I did so not only do people precursor to the pain pathways in the anxiety. Most of them's thrived a level than ever dreamed. Even possible ever before they went into chronic pain. Gene Nazi starting. Part which also motivates me tremendously. Is that people are so excited to be out of this. Whole alternate lifestyle expanding new jobs new careers? Here's the remarried new relationships. It's unbelievable. How people thrive when they're not crushed by anxiety? Now Dr Hans come pain affects. It's not just the patient sitting in your office but also the whole family and contrariwise relationships with the family could affect the patient's stress level as a surgeon. Might Guess is a lot of surgeons. Never ask about that. Nurses my ask about it but doctors often don't is that something that should change it. It has to change. It's not so hard I mean. What am I felt? It takes about two ministers to ask the question. What's going on? I had one gentleman gentleman whose grandson has shot his son at another woman whose daughter is pregnant by her husband. We hear about suicides all the time. Remember the bone. Spur has been there for a long time and something changed because the light painter the arm pain and what usually is change your circumstances I mean people really suffer in chronic pain. People suffer also because of the pain. In addition to the circumstances so you know people chronic pain die on average seven years earlier than without pain. There's W instance of cardiac disease depression hypertension obesity. All those go higher and people and chronic pain so again. The pain is is reflection of elven distress chemicals. When you're under sustained assault from these chemicals is like driving your car on the freeway and second gear is going to break down so yeah really taking the time? This the one thing that would change medicine directly is simply pain doctors to talk to the patient. Absolutely Dr Hanson. Were almost out of time. I wonder if you can share with our listeners. What you are trying to accomplish Josh not just for people with back problems like me but for patients in general when you wrote do you really really need spine surgery? Take control with a spine surgeons advice. Would you like them to understand about this entire process process. The main thing is just be open to new ideas. This is all standard knowledge right now. The business of medicine has marketed solutions. But they have to tell you the something wrong with you. I I understand the marketing. Understand the promise of a cure her but really be open to learning about the problem in taking charge of your own care is actually not very hard but being open to changes the one necessary retooled actually create the change. And what do you mean by taking control because I think a lot of patients especially when they see a a neurosurgeon they think well. This doctor is God. I mean this. This physician knows everything. I'm just poor patient in pain. How do you help people direct their own care while the first book back in control gives you lots of tools? Actually just commerce yourself down and make better decisions for instance sleep if you're not sleeping you can't think clearly so that's just one example but was surgeon is at. That's why I wrote the book visit. It's a resource for patients but also for the healthcare providers to say look Mr Surgeon. There's nothing wrong and really surgery. Spine dirty particulars please become predatory. I mean it's unbelievable. How aggressive surgeons are the data shows only ten percent of surgery? She gnawed gene. Two factors that affect outcomes before or they recommend surgery ten percent and their their report is well. I'm a surgeon. I don't I don't have to deal these other issues wrong. We're physicians were not technicians. So even though you may not do the treatment yourself I get it as a surgeon is responsible to make sure. The variables are covered before. Make the decision into do the surgery in right now. That story is not happening in most surgeons heads and people having major operations done on the first visit and it doesn't make any sense. Doctor David Hanson. Thank you so much for talking with us on the People's pharmacy. Thank you. I enjoyed this very much. You've been listening to Dr David Handsome and Orthopedic Complex spinal deformity surgeon who was based in Seattle Washington. He retired in two thousand eighteen after thirty two years in practice. Today Dr Hands Comes. Mission is to reintroduce true healing into medicine. He feels that doctors should be given the time to listen and understand their patients. He's the author of Back in control surgeons roadmap out of chronic pain and his most most recent book is do you really need spine surgery. Take control with advice from a surgeon. His website is back in control. Dot Dot Com Lynne Segal produced. Today's show our door ski engineered. Dave Graydon edits our interviews. The People's pharmacy is produced at the studios of North Carolina Public Radio W UNC. The People's pharmacy theme music is by B. J. Liederman. The People's pharmacy is brought to you in part by Verizon A- An analytical cool laboratory providing home health test for hormones gut health and the microbiome online at Amazon Dot com also by Coco via via maker of high potency cocoa flannel supplements supporting cognitive and cardiovascular health more information at Koko via dot com Tom and by Kaya -biotics probiotic products made in Germany from certified organic ingredients K. A. Y. A. -biotics dot com. Tom If you would like to purchase a C. D. of today's show or any other people's pharmacy broadcast. You can call eight hundred seven three two two three three four for today's show is number one thousand one hundred ninety five the number again. Eight hundred seven thirty to twenty three thirty four or placed the order online at People's Pharmacy Dot Com. When you visit our site you can share your thoughts about today's show? Have you tried expressive writing for chronic pain. We'd love up to hear about your experience sign up for our free online newsletter. It's all their people's pharmacy. Dot Com in Durham North Carolina. I'm Joe Graydon and I'm Terry Graydon. Please join us again next week. And thank you for listening to people's pharmacy podcast. It's an honor and a pleasure to bring you our award award winning program week in and week out but producing and distributing. This show is free. PODCAST takes time and costs money if you like what we do do. And you'd like to help us. Continue to produce high quality independent healthcare journalism. Please consider chipping in all you have to do is go the two peoples pharmacy dot com slash. Donate whether it's just one time or a monthly donation. You can be part of the team that makes this show possible. Thank you for your continued loyalty and support. We couldn't make our show without you.

pain Dr David Handsome Joe Graydon Terry Graydon acute pain Mark Owens DOT COM Dr Hans COCO David Hanson neck pain Joe Joe Graydon Marco Tom Terry United States back injury flu testosterone ATHEROSCLEROSIS cognitive dysfunction Dr David
Black Agenda Radio - 03.18.19

Black Agenda Radio

58:04 min | 2 years ago

Black Agenda Radio - 03.18.19

"This is black agenda radio a weekly hour of African American political thought and action. To the radio magazine that brings you do. Tom Terry and analysis from a black left for speculative. I'm Glenn Ford along with my co-host Nellie Bailey. Coming up congresswoman Ilhan, Omar has gone EDS up with the Israel, AVI. But what kind of dirty tricks do supporters of the apartheid state have in store for her? We'll tell the story of the rise and demise of a rip warm school for black girls in the Jim crow erased, south and a black social worker and activist explains. Her plans to ramp up the struggle for black disabled people's rights, but birth the arrest of seven heavily armed mercenaries outside the central banks and that capital of Haiti during civil unrest in that country last month has raised questions about the stability. Of the US back regime. This soldiers for hire work quickly took from confinement by the US embassy and flown out of the country and then release when they lend it back in the United States Haitians of all political stripes. Have a whole range of theories about what the mercenaries were up to Jake Johnston of the Washington-based Center for economic and policy research traveled to Haiti to investigate the case and files and extensive report. It's all starving figure seventeen done in Haiti and the police arrested. This group of mercenaries have contractors a few blocks from the central Bank with a large cache of weapons drones other tactical and immediately sort of set off this really, I mean, this political crisis happening at a moment when there were mass protests and street actions demanding the president's resignation in Haiti. And so, you know, really, you know, added to that environment. Right. And this is a few days where they were being detained, and it was strictly rumor filled, and nobody knew it was happening. And it was, you know, quite tense, and then all of a sudden myself, a number of other journalists we were actually at the courthouse waiting for their first appearance in court, and all of a sudden we hear that they're actually quietly being moved to the airport. And then later realized that they were led by American embassy personnel through security and onto a commercial flight to Miami where they were led though free of charges. And so I think you just sort of give the time line there, and I had showed up right after that was really they're looking more at the political situation, and what was going on with these protests. But of course, everything was colored by this event on they're just the big mystery is what were they doing at the central Bank. We have opposition leaders saying that they were trying to destroy records at the Bank related to corruption in government involving the petro Caribbean deal, which is at the center of that civic, unrest that you were referring to. But you also have the prime minister who seems to have hinted that the mercenaries might have been there to kill him. Yeah. Exactly. I think one of the things that I came across it, and it was able to sort of report out here in this investigation was up you things one right? We don't know who actually brought them into the country, but we do know who they were working with once they were in the country, and that is to businessman very close to the ruling party and specifically former president Michel Martelli, including Jeter champagne, who's been a close, personal friend. Marquee for many many years. In fact, just nursing pain was arrested on arms trafficking charges. Nineteen ninety six in the US was Martin Lee who paid his bail? It's just to see sort of connections there. And then you know, the other thing that really became clear Ray, we knew they were arrested near the central Bank. But it was unclear what exactly, you know, roll the Bank had played in this one things that has become clear is that the central Bank governor had been in touch with these businessmen in the weeks leading up to the events on February seventeenth the retention of these contractors and that during the day on the seventeenth the group of contractors actually, tried to enter the Bank and set up a sort of internal issue at the Bank that vault high-level ficials in the technology department. We don't know exactly what was going on. But that's certainly raises significant questions around specifically those allegations around it was destroying altering records and moving funds or something that nature what we do know is that the United States to extrordinary. Actions to rescue them rescue is the word used by one of the mercenaries. Yeah. That's right. I think for us in the US remains one of the biggest question is what role is our government playing in Asian affairs, and what specifically caused the US government to intervene in this case here, right? I mean, this was a group of American citizens arrested for violating local crimes, you know, certainly be standard procedure for that process to play out. We haven't really gotten any explanation from the US to this. I think what's important sort of context again understand US motivation in this all is that again looking back at this period of time where the government of Haiti has really been under siege from St. actions from protests from opposition leaders of cetera. And there was a real switch in US eighty relations in the last few months and this relates to another topic Venezuela and the US or real priority in the hemisphere at the moment overthrowing the Madero government. Now in January Haiti broke with years. The president and voted with the US as opposed to with them as well and voted not to recognize the legitimacy of the Madero government Venezuela and Simpson since that vote in early January, the Haitian government is clearly tried to sort of curry favor with you have to administration officials, and then sort of shadow secretary of state Marco Rubio John Bolton and these guys who've been really reading as well policy. And it's clear that Haiti is really tried to use that vote in the us to their advantage in their own political crisis. And I think that's really important to sort of understand where the different motivations and interests lie in terms of the US response here. Yes. If Haiti is going to default on its huge debt to Venezuela because of the oil transfers at low prices, they may see it in their interest to recognize the way dole regime the US backed puppet. So as to avoid default. Yeah. Exactly. And I think you know, one thing that's come out that there are negotiations happening right now between the US aiding cutter to do a debt buy back that Petrovka rebate debt, then you know, I think that happening in those conversations happening in Washington the week before all of this happening certainly raises additional questions. I mean, there's no evidence yet that there was anything planned, it Washington that there was any advance knowledge, you know, of any US government officials, and yet the sort of broad circumstances here. The broader context of what was happening certainly raise significant questions about who knew what? And when they knew it and this mercenary situation seems to have high. Highlighted splits or tensions between the government and the armed forces and police who aren't happy about what happened. Yes. Certainly, I think, you know, again, this is why this case is really taken on so much broader importance in just these contractors arrested and then rescue by the embassy, you know, really exposed the number of issues. I mean, one is the politicization of the police force. And this has been an issue and Haiti for a long time, but really picked off in the last couple of years. Actually, there's been an open conflict between the director general of the police and the president tried to get rid of him for some time. And so I think clearly this sort of expose some faultlines there in terms of policing if the government's bring in heavily armed foreigners and paying them. Why aren't we getting paid on time? Why are we being asked to do this and certainly feeding into some resentment there, and then beyond that to you have the US intervening instead of letting the Haitian Justice system fulfill its role now again both. The police and the Justice system either institutions that international community has put hundreds and hundreds of millions if not more into in the last decade, plus right? And so to then say, oh, your hard work your efforts. Not good enough. You know, we're gonna pull these guys out. They need to go to go back to the US. I mean, really a slap in the face. Not just the police force and the Justice system, but also to their own efforts asking Musone efforts over the last ten plus years to build up those very institutions, and how are the Haitian masses? How are they reacting to this mercenary escapade? Yes. And certainly there was a lot of anger and fear. Right. I mean, there've been protests for many months now growing six months, and there have been dozens of people killed alongside those protests, you know, increasingly worrying right situation. There have been pictures of, you know, alleged foreigners and bedded within the palace guard back during protests in November. And so when these guys were arrested with his big cache of weapons, I mean, it certainly saying this wave of fear throughout port of Princeton this around. The areas, you know, there have been rumors since of additional mercenaries and other parts of the country, you know, much of which is on confirmed at this point. But I think really speaks to this fear that this case is perpetuated amongst the population. And in terms of what that means for the ongoing protest movement. The result has been that things have actually quieted down. So I think part of that too gets to there was this big conflict between the president and prime minister is clearly part of this. Like, you mentioned the prime minister went on CNN and call these guys terrorists who were there to kill him. No seen very much a direct shot to the president. Right. Part of their own internal power struggles. And was very strange that quickly after that say on has become very mute on this case at all. He hasn't been talking whatsoever. And it seems as though relations between him and the president of actually improved since that. And again, you know, I think there's raising questions what exactly was this. I mean, what changed in terms of say on to go from these assassins here to kill me to everything. Good and lovey-dovey between me and the president. And we're moving on it got into serious questions remain about what really happened here. Well, one could not have destabilize Katie Moore, effectively if one tried. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I mean, it's sort of both these stabilized and also sort of in the short term, actually, provided maybe some stability people who had been fighting their own fights realize that they were had to sort of join together to to protect themselves in the fall out of cases. Well, right. So it goes both ways Johnston of the center for economic and policy research speaking from Washington a recent conventional resolution aimed at freshman Representative Ilhan, Omar one of only two Muslims in the US house as focused national attention on Israel's unrivaled influence on American government policies, Omar declared that members of congress shouldn't be compelled to pledge loyalty to a foreign government. It's she had earlier said that the Israel lobby's power was all about the Benjamins, meaning the vast amounts of money at its disposal. We spoke with Chris hedges, the political analyst and former New York Times foreign correspondent, I think Representative Omar illustrate a kind of seismic change, especially among a younger generation, which is not beholding, especially I'm speaking of American Jews to Israel. I speak at college campuses all over the country. I often have contact with student for Justice in Palestine because I'm also outspoken about Palestinian human rights and invariably half of those students are Jewish. So we're seeing a crumbling of Israel's ability to defend and promote the apartheid state. And so what Israel is doing? Thing is because it does have such control of the American political process. It's bought off through campaign donations, every senior politician in the United States from each party is that it is attempting to discredit it's critics in very nefarious ways. And this is of course, what it did by going after Representative Omar, and they accuse them of being any semitic. It's very vicious forms of character assassination, smearing lack listing. I've been a victim of all of this against anyone who defends Palestinian rights, including the Jewish restoring Norman Finkelstein, including university students, many of whom are Jewish who support groups like students for Justice in Palestine. I'm in the fact that they are tacking these figures as any semitic is Atallah G. But it doesn't matter. We also have seen. The attempt was quite successful attempt on the part of the Israel AVI to Crimmins. Analyze any support of the boycott divestment sanctions movement by tacking it again is anti semitic. So you have twenty four state passing Israel lobby back legislation that require workers and contractors under threat of dismissal. Not to support beady s. I mean essence is kind of Rayleigh loyalty, I mean, you can see the power of the lobby in all sorts of pieces of legislation including the resolution passed in two thousand fourteen every single Senator one hundred centers, including Bernie Sanders, and this was while Israel was bombing and shelling schools and water treatment plants and hospitals and power stations for fifty one days in two thousand fourteen which left two thousand two hundred fifty one Palestinians dead including five hundred fifty one children. They pass a resolution saying that Israel has a right to defend itself. So is. Israel has quite effectively held the US hostage. It was Israel that pushed in large measure, the Israel, AVI that pushed us into the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and particularly Iraq and any kind of deviation. Even however Tepe it such as Brock Obama's Iran nuclear deal sees the as we'll go into hyper drive, and that's how you saw then house speaker John bainer invite the prime minister Netanyahu to address congress in two thousand fifteen the now what was Obamas' policy on Iran, which in the very invitation self with unconstitutional. So the Israel lobby has long used its resources to control the political narrative, and I think that that is frame from below. We see it among younger members of the Democratic Party who rose up against the initial resolution proposed by. Pelosi and that resolution was written by, you know, the most stalwart kind of lackeys of the Israel lobby itself in house who just rose up and said, this is ridiculous. I mean, first of all she never said anything was even could remotely be considered anti semitic. But she dared to state what is a kind of increasingly transparent truth about Israeli interference in the American political system which far dwarf any thing that any other country including Russia or China do. Yes, we talked so much about the Israel lobby, and of course, that lobby exists. And as you as citizens, the lobby has every right to agitate, politically, but all of this across the world is coordinated by the Israeli ministry of strategic affairs. Yes. And I. Courage, everyone to watch the four part series by Al Jazeera, which was never broadcast because the Israel and the lobby prevented it from being broadcast, and I'll just hero, but a pirate copy is up on electron ick intifada. And it's even I who follow this very closely was stunned. Yes, you have kind of open admission on the part of his Rayleigh intelligence services that they are running US Israel lobby organizations. And yet groups like APEC are not required to register as a foreign agent. So that is you know, what is perhaps most disturbing especially in terms of monitoring and spine on US citizens, which is very well documented in the film that is coordinated out of Israel. So here we have the Russian gauge tempests now more than two years old with an hysteria. That says the Russians somehow with Facebook advertisements are. Conducting a political Pearl Harbor against the United States, and at the same time, we see Israel and Israel lobby activities that actually do charge it methodically members of the US congress members of the US government and bring them into a public rebuke. How can both of these two phenomena exists simultaneously? Well, because the first one is ridiculous whole idea that Donald Trump was elected because of Russian bought or the pedestrian emails, which frankly, if anyone including the Russians a leak to me, my speakers, a former investigative reporter for the New York Times and also I would add the Middle East bureau chief I would have published. My job is to find out whether they were true or not they were certainly true. The exposed information that the American public had a right to know that Hillary Clinton was in the pocket of the big bang and with. Saying one thing to us during our campaign and quite another to the 'financiers to which she was beholden. So the Democratic Party in particular is unable to address these social inequality, which they helped orchestrate and which resulted in the rise of this con artist and demagogue now sits in the White House. And so they engage in the same kind of demagoguery that Trump engages in Trump attacks undocumented workers and people of color and Muslims and they attack Russia, but neither is a reality based belief system and the inability on the part of the Democratic Party to confront the vast social inequality, which under the ideology of Neil liberalism. They helped orchestrate is dangerous and may very well. See Trump be reelected because the people out who are been rendered largely invisible by. Corporate media, and they're suffering is invisible. And what's been done to them is not acknowledged and invisible and don't really care about this stuff? So it's well, you know, the chattering of courtiers in Versailles and all of them refuse to acknowledge the deep disintegration collapse democratic institutions and rise of repair ships and undemocratic oligarchy systems that have destroyed the country, and and so it's just another form of magical thinking that invalid for Trump White House much of the domestic support for Israel comes not from Jewish groups. But from the Christian right from evangelical 's, but it's long been clear to everyone that the event Djelic will right is also the greatest source of actual anti semitism in this country. Well, that's very good point. Because what? It happened. Is that Israel has now created this phoneline around Palestinian, right? So if you criticise Israel's war crimes and oppression against the Palestinians or BB Netanyahu's lobbying for war with Iran, then you are any semi if you cheer on the subjugation and oppression and murder of Palestinians. You our friend of the Jews, and this has led them to build alliances with as you correctly point out, the real any Semite come out of the Christian. Right. So you may have within the Christian right for bizarre regions of eschaton legiti at the end times coming and the truth have to take control of Israel in order for Christ's return and the battle of the anti Christ. But in that, of course, all the Jews don't convert or killed so you can have the Christian right as well. Well, as people like Trump embrace Zionism, but they're also any Semites. I mean, remember Trump is the one who's called Neo Nazis, very fine people during the campaign. He tweeted picture of Hillary Clinton against the backdrop of hundred dollar bills. The star of David superimposed nearer face. I mean, imaginative Ilhan Omar done that and that's the so criteria Israel. Now, set sister who the apartheid state sets who in turn into terminating who to support and who to demonize and real any semitism. Doesn't matter you know, the danger of this. And you know, you wonder how Jewish leaders have just gone blank on their own history. The danger is that anti semitism, and that kind of ethnic and religious hatred than stereotyping demonizing which the Christian right in brace is dangerous. Not because it's dangerous for the Jews necessarily because it's bad for everybody. Once you open that pen. Dora's box of evils, you empower in essence, the real any Semite the longer you refuse to acknowledge the very I think undeniable reality of Israel's interference in the American political system. The more you feed these people who thrive off of cons- racist conspiracy theories is ultimately, deeply counter-productive certainly to the Jews in the United States. And I think in you could argue Israel itself. Yes, we saw the international meeting in Poland organized by the jump of government in which Netanyahu was hobnobbing with all kinds of right wing figures who have historically been linked to anti semitism, including the polish ruling party and Israel is now cozied up with Saudi Arabia, the home of one hob ISM, which is as anti semitic and even anti different kinds of Muslims as one could imagine. Well, exactly because you know, the Israeli state has drifted so far to the right that in terms of their racist behavior. Do seem Palestinians most Palestinians to misery. And it's really will. Let's call them what they are rarely administered ghettos that they have natural affinity for. Other regimes other authoritarian regimes that engage in that same kind of behavior, and it doesn't matter whether they engage in that behavior against Jews or not because the rhetoric that comes out of countries like Poland and Hungary. Of course, they talk mostly about Syrian refugees, which they don't accept, but the language they use that they rape and they spread diseases or almost word for word. Exactly the same language. They used about Jews in the nineteen thirty. So I think that the kind of tragic deforming of Israel as it has embraced overt racism. And you know, let's be clear, you know, ethnic cleansing and racism was always part of the Rayleigh government cintas founding in nineteen forty eight. But never so nakedly at knowledge as it has in this government under Netanyahu's Jews, of course, running for reelection and made an alliance with very small over. Virtually the Kahana wing them, which was the Khan and the this radical right wing Jewish group was defined as terrorist group, but the United States Department, and that is the kind of irony, but of course, the DNA at this point of Israel and the DNA of a country like Hungary or pull under Saudi Arabia's very similar Representative Omar shows, no signs of shutting up. She vows that she'll continue to speak out on matters of policy, which was what she was elected to do. Do you think that the Israel lobby will once again try to get a resolution against her? Or will they see that as a bridge too far? Well, I think what they probably or are doing is building a war test and creating connections. So that the next time she runs for office. She meets very stiff opposition, the Israel lobby has a very long history of destroying elected officials in the house and the congress. Who in any way, challenge them something they can pass another resolution, but I can guarantee you that they are now working with all of the resources, they have which are extensive to make sure she doesn't have another term that was journalist. Chris hedges speaking from New York City. There was a time not so long ago when young black girls down south where locked away if they didn't conform to white people's wishes or the codes of behaviour favorite by upper class. Blacks Lauren Henley is say doctoral student and history at the university of Texas at Austin, she's doing a study of black female criminality, and the US south from the reconstruction era to World War Two Henley found any luminated in case study and the poignant history of the founding and demise. Is of a reformatories for black girls. And Jim crow era, North Carolina. It was called the North Carolina industrial school for negro girls. Also refer to as the eflin home. S went home was originally established by a branch of the national federation of colored Women's Club with the goal of really uplifting. Young black women who have found themselves in rather precarious situations in urban environments. So these are young women who were being sort of sexually deviant. And that could mean anything from feeding married without their parents permission who having a child out of wedlock to going to a picture show on chaperoned or even skipping school to go out. And it really wasn't as dire. As the terms actually seem to imply and the club women thought that by. Establishing a home for these wayward you that they can help redeem them and make them viable members of society. And of course, in Jim crow ultra line a-, young girls couldn't go to the reformatories for young white girls. And so black club women took it upon themselves to a comparable facility, but a privately owned ability to really rehabilitate, these young black women, obviously didn't turn out that way. But in theory, the goal was to instill Christian Lee goodwill to make these young women find themselves in a religiously righteous face where they learned vocational skills. They would receive an education, and they would go on to serve as potentially like domestic servants or farm workers or some other sort of working class job within North Carolina's, you know, local environment. So this was a Miri when they kitchen. Uplift project for the race in the context of Jim crow, but it didn't openly turn out that way. Not, you know, one of the things I really try to get across the article is that there was a major class divide within the black community in more Carolina at the time. And so these women they were middle class or maybe even a lead. They were deemed respectable. They were deemed up, Danny members. It's and the young women they were trying to save simply word these were generally working class or lower class, flat girls. Many of them were forced to take jobs, but because their families were too poor sort of make ends meet with just the parents working. And so you end up with this disconnect about class where the club women thinks they're uplifting. The race the lower fasting imposing an idea middle class respectability. You get this tension where despite the club women, and I do think they. Had good intentions. I don't think they were really bad people or don't think that they were trying to impose a negative system on these young girls. I think they were coming from their own point of view and the young women were coming from their own point of view. And so you end up with this tension about what is black womanhood. And you see the club women promoting one idea when you see the young women in Ephron home promoting another idea, and though I think classes, perhaps the largest issue that's at play here. I also really wanted to get across idea that there's a generational gap. And that's something that a lot of black women's history doesn't want to talk about quite yet. But we're getting better. And so these are young women. These are, you know, fifteen sixteen year olds and the club women are by and large in their thirties. Forties and fifties. And so it's the same debate. We always have across time about the younger generation versus the older generation. What's appropriate for one isn't appropriate for the other. And we see that playing out in early twentieth. Century North Carolina in this particular taste affluent hope so we see these interim black class and other contradictions playing out in the institution, and it's all against the backdrop of a hostile white supremacy. St. how does it play out? Well, it's interesting in that when the North Carolina federation of women's clubs first comes up with the idea to establish a reformatories for wayward, black girls. And then starting about nineteen nineteen. Yeah. Actually approached the Commissioner for public welfare in North Carolina who happens to be the first female Commissioner public welfare in the country and Commissioner boss actually seems agreeable to the idea that black female juvenile delinquency is a problem in North Carolina and deserves some sort of faith intervention with intr-. Meeting about that. If that there seems to be both an intro racial in an intern racial appeal to curbing juvenile delinquency. Then of course, the state never actually puts the funds behind establishing an institution like Epion home. So I think part of that is although the Commissioner seems agreeable today. The is the only one in the state apparatus to a deal with funding issues, and I think as much as she talks good game. The reality is that there's already institution in North Carolina for young white girls. If known Osama can manner, and it's in broiled and its own sort of issues and scandals during the early twentieth century, there's a home for young black boys known as Hoffman institute, but already exists as well. And so young girls become the forgotten space where even though one person in the state one white person in the state seem to agree to the idea. In general, the state of North Carolina wants nothing really to do with delinquent black girls, and in the course of time this place of intended moral uplift becomes well. Just the prison. Does you know, I didn't want to pick any of this matrons as particularly horrible or particularly sort of fell esta. Instead, I wanted to show that these are these are people and either people dealing with really difficult day-to-day problems so effort home over the course of about a decade really does crumble and crumble because these are sort of layer upon layer of layers of difficulties. So there's a funding problem that obviously means that there is a day to day issue with how the institution is. If you don't have enough money to say by food now that it's been time growing food and growing food takes time away from education. And so now the girls are learning the things that the club women had hoped because they're too busy trying to grow food. But as I said, there's a generational problem. And so as a whole not girls can sometimes be a little rambunctious and things sometimes just didn't want to work, and they would tell the leadership of Ebola home that they quite frankly, we're gonna work they didn't feel like doing it. And as article shows that they just ran away. So you end up with his compound problems in which the institution crumbles both from within and from without and finally its demise is complete in nineteen thirty nine. What was the assessments of the club women and the black community at large and did the community C F Lund's failure as their own or something brought about by outside forces. Yeah. So when effort home sort of really falls pretty rapidly after nineteen thirty nine. In that year. The state undertakes this rather racially biased survey known as the cycle educational survey of Efren home, and it reveals all kinds of things about early twentieth century idea about black inferior already. And so it says things like the the young women institution are mentally inferior, which we know tests are they were not mentally inferior. But this was a way for the states to assess why Efren home were failing well, the second educational surveys really had negative effects on effluent home club women and the entire state apparatus that thought about taking over the institution. And so the club women get together in nineteen thirty eight and they decide basically effort home has become so tarnished between the cycle educational survey between young women running away, the lack of financial guarantees that. It's best to simply. Oh, the institution and maybe start gain. If can be raised. So they agree in October nineteen thirty eight to close institution on March first nineteen thirty nine and as one final push, which I perhaps find the most interesting little tidbit about eflin one of the club woman. Major proponents of building open home. Charlotte Hawkins frown and then another couple of in many Pearson. Ten this open letter for the people of North Carolina in the local newspaper, and in the letter, they say all kinds of things about how the fold Ephron home is not only going to diminish the black community in North Carolina. But also the white community as well. And so they have this quote that I think probably a pit him is is there under standing institutions and stuff with me since I started researching twenty thirteen and it says disease and delinquency. No, no color the races on the lower levels. Find each other. And I think that. Suggests this sort of class issue that the club women felt like they were up against and that they believe that the young women at effluent home who were by large lower class and lower class whites with somehow come into contact with one another if Ephron home so and that without the sort of moral impetus to uplift their race that everybody white and black would fall as well. And that idea legiti, I think is what both contributed to the desire to build up at home in the first place and eventual demise because the class issue became so prevalent that the sort of racial dynamics meant that the club women were to focus on their own sort of distancing from their charges, those young black women. And so in the end, you know, they pin this letter it goes out to being tired, North Carolina. And nothing happens. You know, they can't raise the funds to keep up on home alive. It's quite clear that the community feels like the institution has not done what it was designed to do. And so for a couple of years there is no institution for young females even delinquent in North Carolina. They are sent to local jails and eventually in the early nineteen forties. The state of North Carolina does try to actually build its own institution with state funds on a separate bought of land. And that institution does survive a little bit longer. And what does this story tell us then about the capability of this black mislead issue class if you will to decide that it is the arbiter of what goes on in the community. I think in telling lesson about sort of the elite class or the middle class. Versus the lower class and really says something about the inherent tensions of class. I name IX within the Jim crow south. I think we often we'll talk about sort of tension within the black community. But then somehow when we talk about safe black women history as a sort of subcategory of history, we lose that class in Alice's. And I don't think that that's appropriate. I think it's clear that as much as their classifies within a block unity, they're classified within black women themselves and their generational device within black women. And so I was trying to article 'cause idea that there can be multiple definitions of black womanhood. And those things are informed by class. They're informed by gender there. Informed by sexuality. They're informed by ages and they're informed by religion, geographic location, all of these things and neither version or any Berge of black in hood is any better than the other. They're all different. And in a place like F when home the version promulgated by the young women, and that, you know, afforded by the club women just happened to be diametrically at odds and these clubs still exist or have morphed into other kinds of organizations do these conflicts still manifest to that kind of degree today. Everything the clubs have more into other sort of institutions, perhaps the most maybe well known or maybe controversial would be something like, Jack and Jill, and I think in some ways. Yes, these issues do still exist. However, I think because the there is no longer legal apparatus of Jim crow, forcing flax to live a month. Each other. I would say in some ways it into more diffuse or perhaps even more aligned with the inspirational appealed to an elite class, I they lower class in particular along the league class lines. I think there is an interesting base where you have both. They sort of talented, Tim ideology that can exist and also a sort of separation is ideology that can't exist. But I think it's somebody's different of sort of early twenty century North Carolina is fees club women really fundamentally believed that they could uplift their race. And I don't know that we have seen sort of racial Oli jn between the black elite or the middle class and the black lower class today. And not quite sure that it is as the racially cohesive. Even though we we know effort home did not do what it was supposed to do. I do want to reiterate that the club women were not malicious in what they set out to do. We were simply in effective because of their own biases nicely. And because the real note, you you tend to see the world from your own point of view. Until the women eight just that, you know, one of the founders of Ephron home, Charlotte Hawkins Brown had established an elite training school for well to do black children known as Palmer memorial institute in nineteen to which was founded twenty three years before f went home opened it stores, and so can frown would write all kinds of letters about effluent home on Palmer memorial. Stationary. It was clear that she understood her role as a middle class elite club woman to visit between this finishing school for well-to-do black youth, and this reform story for wayward black girls. Clearly, you know, she was intention in her daily life trying to figure out what do you do with these two different classes of black kids? I mean, these are adults sincere teenager some of them are even younger and she made it abundantly. Clear that a young woman who went to Palmer would never fall to become a young woman who goes to s men and likewise, a young woman who went to Efren could never graduate from Homer and back level of class divides. It she embodied I think can still be seen in black America today. Chop contemporary demands is community control of black community institutions back in the Jim crow era. Black folks did in fact control lapse of institutions within the confines of white supremacy. But what can we learn in terms of our demands for community controlled today from lessons such as eflin, ROY? I think perhaps the largest thing we can learn and perhaps the most difficult. It's simply ask. Well, what's the community who is community that we're interested in really controlling and are the people within that community the ones who are doing the controlling. I think eflin shows that just because people are the same race does not mean that they are up the same community. And I think that is a sort of fine line to toy to ask. We don't wanna get. So narrow minus that there is only one tiny group of people who get to be defined as a community. But we really have to ask is this for the good back community or is this for the good of our sort of own self interest. And if those things don't align as they didn't with effluent home, then what are some other ways, we can really address it situation. You know, when some of the young women at f- when with say that they ran away because the matron was physically abusive towards them, and we have to go. Okay. Why did physical? Abuse and criminally correction fit into the same space, even though they were never intended to be in the same space who let that continue. And why did they continue and the young woman would say that they weren't gonna labor. Well, if they're not gonna work, then what kinds of things could they do to be more productive in a safe like f- went home. And I'm not sure from reference that I've seen that anyone ever really consulted young women about what would be ways that they could contribute to the success of what they're always talking about in a really negative way. And I think in some ways that could be used a model very different from upland home. But drawn from those lessons could be used today to ask people within you know, their own community. How best can we sort of assist in taking back some control and leveraging control for the people who should directly benefits from such munity control. That was duck to'real student. And writer Lauren Henley, speaking from Austin, Texas, when folks they black lives matter. The Lissette Thompson wants to make sure they need black. Disabled people's lives matter to Thompson is an activist social worker and writer and the recognized leader in the struggle for the rights of black disabled folks, she's the creator of ramp UA voice and the hashtag disability to white. We asked Thompson, how her politics impacts, her profession, basically, her chart has in a three tier that micro means, oh and macro micro is what we're mostly known for as workers. What comes to my social worker think of clients CPS DSS, work group, therapy soul so forth. Micro is dad. I'm engaged with clients families and group me so is how we engage institutions. Like schools in Vegas that we're kind of in these is setting and macro is what I focus on is the big systems community work politics can be higher those teaching higher Ed or do work within a spear advocacy myself. Those are the big system type of work would come to work when I was aggressive. I did a lot of micro work. I intern at a HIV agency and Dow sooner so that experience on a micro level help me to make connections of what's going on the macro level. Learn about how corporations that particularly whether for profit nonprofit engage your clients decisions. They make how bad has a trickle down effect on the type of support services social workers able to give and how those services, but if they're doing impact the kind family group relationships. And you ever special emphasis on how these big systems impact? Disabled people you yourself are in a wheelchair. You've got a disease called osteo. Genesis in Perfecta, and your focus has been on black disabled people and how the big systems don't deal at quickly with them yet. When I started in professionally I started out talking social workers about this Bill related issues because I knew from that particular spear how outdated so he'll work is to understand disability on any level with culture, language culture. How to properly engage with clients about doing harm and that has allowed me to transitions to be really more censored with comes to race. Disability engine, particularly focusing on the experiences black to save a women if these so yes, that's basically been my focus. 'cause I've had wrap your boy now for six years that has really been my ability to go from a broad perspective and my teaching to more narrow perspective to really center in on the black disabled experience and the sections and off the cools oppression that people in door and also be able to bring my own personal experience in that as they black lineal disabled one, then they save a woman as he's southern let's say a woman and bring those identities that have personally through we've those to my work. Created the hashtag disability to right. But you mean, yes. Well, it came from a conversation that I saw on into that the sixteen about and O J auto disability and beauty and feature. The images of what women and when we talk about disability and beauty and sexuality. It usually centers the experiences of what sable people, and I came in on a conversation as everyone was talking about how this is another example of ratio in ability to be inclusive when it comes to certain topics and while being apart Scott Shen has to pops to my head. I started using it, and it just grew from there, and he has really taken on his own and really hone in on all of these private conversation that we have about racism within a dispute to community as well as how that racism impacts acquire. Quality of life twenty days that say what people color Pab or do not have. So it really allowed us to have these private conversations dumb will publicly and without shame. And the have something that is tangible to really connect to it. So the hash had been in creative for the past two years, and it's been used what within Jimmy spaces, and you know, within the disability conversation discourse. And also thought of that for people who are more conscious of the issues within the community. And the disparities say what people color face, your own little person, your disabled NGO little woman, but in twenty six teen you wrote a poem that was titled if I die in police custody, we don't usually think of people in your situation being subjected to police brutality, and that's very. Eroneous thinking because we look at the cases of metality over fifty percent of the occur with the able people. So there are people are greatly impacted by police brutality. Some of the biggest maize particularly lives mattered movement, working sable like Corinne games, Sandra. Bland, those individuals were disabled themselves, and is very disheartening to know how their disability has to erased from their own stories when we talk about them, and how it's been raised for the bigger narrative of the impact of police brutality and not making the connection as to how disabled people of color, especially are very vulnerable and or target within this area. Feel people like me being a woman the Witcher little person we are more susceptible to being harmed by the police, and that's a reality that I live with and so many others like me do. And you point out that the black community is proportionately more. Disabled has more people suffering from disabilities than any other ethnic group. Yes. African American native Americans we have the highest rates of disability and those community had the highest rate of reality. So I think that is very important to pay attention to how they ability dynamic really impact. How look at police brutality and happens brutality. Would it comes to disable bodies made up? Everybody's are being greatly Representative oh those numbers. And what does that mean to members of community who are seeing this epidemic occur and members of their communities and not really paying attention to that dynamic and doing more to raise the consciousness and to really allow is able people of color in their spaces should be a bigger voice. To this issue. So that we can do more and hope people kinda bull who are doing harm by us and to knowledge the disparities of people, and they say that people would come to this issue. And if we're going to talk about black disabled people and the state we've got to discuss conditions in prison yet. Yes, when it comes to disable inmate, and particularly those who are color their greater chance of them to either have their current disability. That's baited offered them to become able due to Kerrick finance. So this is also an issue as to how the system is. If this Ebeling people, you know, who are imprisoned, and what do we do for the individuals? If they're able to come out, what type of support the services, can we give them what type of community? Can we give them when they been subjected to such harsh reality? So brutal realities. And us in the community in many ways being ill prepared to give them the care of the poor. They deserve. If they are able to regain the freedom and us really understanding how we talk about, you know, corporation, you know, that is a very big disability issue that many communities of color do not think about over Mark LARs matter inches. Very proud of having raised consciousness about the queer community in the black community and its relationship to the police, but are you satisfied with black lives matter in general's response to disabled people, I think there is great room for growth, but accounts that I know that are activists who had been a part of the black matters chapters. But typically that movement Gand who discussed the able to them they didn't doors, Abe, listen at the social prejudice of disabled people, and you know, it. Really made me aware of how our structures are prepared to engage with people. How op structure structures may either consciously on constantly be oppressive to disabled people when we are all seemingly fighting for all black people. So I think they're in great work to be done to ensure that black lives matter and other anti white supremacy anti blackness, anti racism movement, really take inventory to sing are they conscious of this Bill to issues are they welcoming to say what people who want to join the effort. They tackling Abe listen that may be either consciously consciously existing, you know, are they give people a type of their own or invited them to a table to discuss pain. They're allowed to say people to be leaders in these movements. Those are all the things that I believe that, you know, all of these movements, regardless of matter or anything else needs to take to the rations to ensure that if they're going to say that all black lives matter they that they really mean everyone and not just those who are able body near tipple crew all black people, especially and really taking sedation. The despair that we do endure that is greatly if fluid by disability that is and can be exacerbated by this. That is so I think there's work that can be done, you know, within these movements to really be more inclusive opening respectful and knowledgeable and proactive about this to write this Justice within their framework. And that's it for this edition of black agenda radio. We sure to visit up at black agenda report dot com where you will find a new and for bucket issues each Wednesday. That's WWW dot black agenda report dot com. It's the place for news. Come and Terry and analysis some the black left on Nellie Baillie along with my co-host splints Ford. Our thanks to the good people at the progressive radio network.

Israel United States North Carolina Jim crow Representative Omar Haiti president prime minister congress BB Netanyahu Ephron Democratic Party Tom Terry Rayleigh Washington Chris hedges Jake Johnston Glenn Ford Representative Ilhan New York Times
2020-10-12- KSR - Hour 1

KSR

45:28 min | 7 months ago

2020-10-12- KSR - Hour 1

"Hey this is Joe Biden. Listen. I know times are tough. And there's a lot of fear out there. But. I also know miracle come back strong. If, we got the right leadership. We can get kids back in school folks back to work back to their lives safely. If we do it together. Thanks for listening. I'm Joe Biden candidate for president and I approve this message. Paid for by Biden for president of comedy on Broadway and Lexington Green. Welcomes Club favored and comedy veteran, Henry Joe Oct eight through the then catch the queen of southern SAS at a May or two big weeks October fifteen through the twenty four. Don't miss the clean and always Larry Humor of Jeff Allen Tober twenty nine through the thirty first or comedy out Broadway, showtimes and tickets Koi five, nine, two, seven, one joke or visit comedy on Broadway Dot Com. Kentucky Sports. Radio on Talk Radio Tenny. Now here's Matteo's. Everyone talking sports radio Monday. October twelfth on a Cloudy Day here in Louisville Kentucky I'm Matt Jones. You can give us a shout on the Clark's pump and shot phone line that it's five O. Two, five, seven, one, ten, eighty. I feel like the specialty first our this'll be a good day because I wanna hear what you thought about the game. We're finally doing a show after a victory. or You can text the Vision Glass Tech Scene Seven, seven, two, seven, seven, four, five, two, five, four, this distance sponsored by my friend TJ Smith TJ Smith Loft, TJ. He'll make them pay I've got Ryan in Lexington I got Shannon in Louisville. And look the Big Story Kentucky put forth. I don't think people are probably surprised that Kentucky One, twenty, four t to over Mississippi state but I think we probably are a little bit surprised at the way. Kentucky's dominated the scoreboard. And I want to say they dominated the play because I'm not sure that's actually true and we'll talk about that I actually think if you're just talking about the play on the field. There was probably pretty close honestly, but on the scoreboard everything happened in the other two weeks where you could look at the stats say Kentucky looks like they played better than that team but lost flip this week Kentucky maybe played similarly to the team they played but did all the things necessary to win and to hold Mike and Mike Leach offense to a shutout for the first time in the history of him as a coach. Ryan limit. I was not surprised. Kentucky one especially early I kind of felt like Kentucky was GonNa win. But I have to admit I'm surprised it was twenty four to two. Yeah, there's not one person alive who thought our defense was going to shut Mississippi state out and shut them down the way they did nobody after the first two games. What we sophomore defense I don't think there's anybody who thought they were gonNA come out and play the way they did on Saturday. You know you're talking about a defense that went into the game last in the country in passing defense I mean just think about the odds you could get in Vegas team that is last in the country and defense holding maybe the greatest passing game coach. Of Our generation to no points. And the way they did it Ryan was fascinating to me because. They gave up almost no big plays I don't know what the what the yardage was for the longest Mississippi state play. But how much do you think it was right twenty five yards maybe I, Kate Yeah. You at you said that I can't remember. I can't remember a play with it went that far I'm not sure has to be held everything right in front of them, and then twice having interception at the goal line. I mean, that is those two interceptions at the goal line. If you think about it, if those are touchdowns and by the way, both of them could have been one of them off the Mississippi state guys hands and the one watson just ripped from the receiver. Sudden. Then it's twenty, four, sixteen it's a different game. Yeah Gosh Pascal's interception but it was in a red zone to he was in the red zone. I mean they got inside the forty four times Ryan came away with no points. And like you said, what we saw from our defense, I two games, they just they just flat out I just manned up and just decide, hey, look, we're better than what we've shown the first two as we need to come out and prove something against a Mike Leach offense they did it they on a night with the offense struggled most of the night the defense stepped up and flat out. One football I think the more surprised I mean, it was surprising to me how well the secondary played but they made the decision to play zone and I. Think One of the reasons Kentucky did so well when when backed up in the red zone is for teams that that our planes though it can be hard for that offense complete passes because the field gets a lot more bunched up down there. But what surprise me is our three man rush got to the quarterback Ryan. Allot. We haven't really gotten to the quarterback at all in the first two games not all no rush for two games and we dropped eight and would rush three and occasionally four, and they got to the quarterback specially in the second half Bryan to the quarterback allot throughout the game. Yeah we're was that the first two games. He's no other things they did is they played they played a lot more guys. I mean now part of that was probably necessity because Mississippi state ran eighty four plays, but they play they they ended up playing like ten guys on the line. They played the freshmen a lot. They played three refreshment out there Ryan I mean Gibson. Rogers in an on all got on the field I think they thought the look if our older guys aren't aren't getting to the quarterback, we might as well let some of these young guys do. And maybe that's what pushed him push those guys you know, hey, look we get these guys are behind if we don't get our job done, they're going to take place maybe that they had little incentive for the dwelt play a little harder and Saturday I. Think you gotTa give a ton of credit to the linebacking core Jamie. Davis played. Awesome. Jared Casey coming off the bitch I thought had a great game. The Andre Square had a great game Pasco before he got hurt had great game I mean those dudes all stepped up and then listen the second. Air Shannon I'm not gonNA calling boss man fat but I think he might be assistant to the regional manager Chubby right now. because he got an interception, he didn't give away big place. So you gotTa Give Him Credit and I was GONNA say, maybe second year intern. He's the guy who had an intern for the summer. Then he came back for the second year I don't know you're already ready to give them the. Title I'M NOT GONNA make him assistant regional manager, but I will make him. To the region, I'm just trying to make sense of what happened with the secondary like Ryan said, where was the secondary those first two games I think that proves that we need those two non conference games to sort of get settled before ready to take. Think there is that there's a lot of truth to that Shannon I. Mean I think you are seeing you know most of the years Ryan, we have usually to we usually play two non conference games and then Florida that's kind of how the schedule for the last seven or eight years has gone. And I think you probably could see. In this season, why we do that and if you remember, we talked about this before the Auburn game, you Kinda go back through the mark stoops era really only year we went to southern miss have we actually really played? WELL IN OUR FIRST GAME WE'VE lost it a couple times to Western into southern miss. We've beaten teams but like at halftime the game will still be close It may just be Ryan that mark stoops a coach that needs those games. I agree totally because it was a huge huge step up on our defensive side of the football on Saturday. There's no doubt about it and we and we kind of talked about it all week. Are they are they that talented and just not playing well or they just not good and I think we sell the solve the the answer that on Saturday I agree with that I? Think we now know they have the capability of doing it. So so the defense was good. Max Duffy was excellent I mean mackel. toughy. I don't I think we know that we give him credit, but maybe we don't even give him enough credit. Ryan because he flips the field every time I mean his and he painted inside the ten twice pending inside the twenty four times I mean he the dude is really really good at his job and I felt almost a little bad for the Mississippi State. Punter, because he was having a great game he had a couple of great ponts he did and then Max Duffy would come out and just trumping just put one even better than what the Mississippi state planner was doing yes, he was excellent now the offense That wasn't excellent. Win Twenty, four to two. You don't worry too much about it. But I mean, let's be real two of our touchdowns really were defensive touchdown pass got tackled at the three and the other one wasn't defensive touchdown. So you scored three touchdowns but really only one was drive a sustained drive. Besides that sustained drive which included a Terry Wilson Sixty yard run. They really couldn't do anything when the offense was inept. Pretty much the whole game. It wasn't I I think. That any grand could have opened it up more in the second half to try their things but he didn't want to because we were winning and our defense was stopping them. So let's not do something that loses the game and I actually understand that. So I can't get on him for not going down field or etc. because why would you your defensive controlling the game? But the reality is Ryan. They couldn't do anything offensively. What was your take on it? I wish we would've tried to quarterback draw another time or two then only ran it every other play and it didn't work but. Did that so much instead of just given the ball to Chris Rodriguez. Getting Ready to say, we rushed the ball was four hundred yards a gay before and yet we had him get him sitting back there and it seemed like when he did get the ball, he was able to have some success. Times only. Give him the ball against Mississippi State. That's the head scratcher to me. Why didn't they get to get us to handing the ball more but hasn't been Kentucky's Imo the last few seasons though just sort of playing not to lose. The game plan of not throwing a lot and when we did it being short I'm okay with that because I think the the circumstances the game dictate that there just wasn't a reason to take chances. But if you're going to run. Why not give it to I mean I know offense Terry Terry's really really good ride at scrambling yards. Would you agree with that? Oh Yeah. He had the biggest play of the game off and. Third. On the read option I think he's good at that. I. Don't know that his strength is the Lynn Boden quarterback dry just don't think that's his strength. But we called it a lot I. think we called it Ryan somebody counted nine times. To me of those nine seven of them should be handing the ball to Chris Rodriquez. Totally totally agree when you got that guy sitting back there and and like we said each time you gave him the ball he was able to get you some positive yards. Well, if you don't WanNa pass, why not just give it to him. Let him run the ball for you. I said this on the post game show I had somebody right me who knows more about football than me and they made a very good point which was. Our defensive offense of lime was getting Bart and we should talk about why that happened because they were getting destroyed. In one of the things we've done over the last couple of years a lot with Lynn. Boden and Terry is the sort of get the ball. Staying there for a second and wait to see what develops and then run it worked like a charm with Lynn Boat. And it actually works pretty well with Terry Wilson. But Saturday our defense Blah are often I was getting beat so bad that like by Tom Terry waited he was tackled. So in that scenario doesn't it make more sense just to hand it to the guy who hit the whole immediately Ryan? Great. Point. You're like a boat and was great at it. He can hesitate for just a second with a whole wasn't hit it. Interior's not good at it. I mean tears pretty good at it to Lynn was so fast it helped but but Terry's decent at that too. But that just wasn't developing Saturday. No, he didn't have had that opportunity to to hesitate and wait because the pocket was gone and you're going to get sacked. But they kept going back to to. Try it so. Somebody. Sent me this and I always think these are interesting. Well actually, we'll white because I want to do I wanNA, spend a minute we're going to go to break. So we we win the game though Bottom Line Ryan you win that's the most important thing and you get some positive momentum going into Tennessee game that that you know look I'm not GonNa pick us to win 'cause that's just not what I'm doing anymore against Tennessee, but you have to feel like you can go down there Ryan and be competitive and have a shot. Yeah we all said You had win that game Saturday you. Had Win if you wanted to have any chance of a five hundred season or better, you had to win it and if we make Hick if we make a kicking, so miss two and one, which is what we thought. We'd be anyway absolutely I mean you you got a chance to do something you have haven't been able to do and. Match Lifetime Win Win at At the. Only, time it's happened. In my life once. Had A shot. Six and a half point underdog to go do it Saturday five Oh, five, seventeen, eighty, eight, veggie, glass sex machine seven, two, seven, seven, four, five, two, five, four. We'll talk more about the game. We'll talk about Mike Leach's comments after the game and a lot more from the weekend. Talked about Jones and the crew called the Clark's pup and shop online at five, zero, two, five, seven, one, eighty, or one, eight, seven, seven, nine, four, hundred, eighty, or citizen the Kentucky Brandon. Tweet of the day by Twenty Matt. K. Sports Radio. Glue and you Kentucky Sports Radio on Talk Radio. Some crazy numbers. We came into the game last in the country and turnover mark seventy four. J. Lyndon points out. We went from seventy four to twenty eight in one game. Next interceptions. Yeah. I mean six year sentence most we've had a game since nineteen ninety-three and by the way the most Kentucky football thing ever is the last time we had them we had seven interceptions and three and Ryan we still lost that game to Florida. The Florida. Game Chris. Door we had said it intersects lost. Mississippi. State had forty five completed passes Ryan and no points. INSANE THAT'S IT That is amazing. Give credit to the defense again, especially down in the red zone and they got down there. They just found a way to keep them alley in zone. We had the fewest yards at one, hundred, Fifty, seven, the fewest yards in. Thirteen years in college football to win by twenty or more points. Is that right? Yes. Think about that there hasn't been a game in thirteen years in which a team has won twenty or more and had fewer yards than. Well, the the first two games you looked at the numbers and you thought we were blowing people out with what we had offensively, and this is a game you look at our numbers. You thought we got blown out. All right. So now somebody sent me this last night, and this is that Shane and you remember that thing the PF pro football focus, they grade every player in every game, right? Now. It's you know it's not perfect. Okay and that's important for people to realize, but it is a good tool. And here's some stats. I find. Interesting. Ryan. Chris Rodriguez is the highest graded running back in all of the SEC. Well data him the ball more. Feed the man. De'andre Square is Kentucky's highest graded defensive player that doesn't surprise me you ride. I. Mean I feel like he may be our best defensive player he seemed to where he was everywhere. It seemed like Saturday night every time they were getting off the pile there he was landon young is the highest graded blocking tackle any in the SEC surprise you. Well Great. But I you know I b e once you did. But still I mean overall highest graded demarcus Harrison. I'm not trying to pick on this kid. Okay. But demarcus airs is the lowest graded wide receiver in the nation. I know it. It's tough not to say negative things we've talked about him for weeks and he had a couple more drops on Saturday he he was on the field for thirty eight plays. Akeem Hayes was on the field for nine. That's how many times did they even target Hayes and how many times did they target Harris I'm not sure some more Drake Jackson, the highest pass blocking grade of any center in the nation in the nation. Quinton Bohana is highest graded nose tackle in the SEC. That's good. Right? It's great. Rated SEC linebackers in run defense in the entire league in run defense. Ardy Andre. Square. And James Davis. So some interesting stats their. Interest surprised about the run defense because we stopped the run pretty well, this year it's been the past until Saturday until Saturday and we got down there in the red zone a man they just seem they just tightened up. Got The job done. We do need to ask somebody's GONNA. Ask. Where are you? Now on the Joey Gatewood issue let me tell you what I said on the post game show. I think you're still Terry Wilson is still your guy. But I do think if they went to Tennessee and he was ineffective for whatever reason. And we were behind in the second half by margin more than a touch now. There is a scenario now, I, think for the first time where I could see them giving him a shot. In, that scenario, what do you think? Terry Wilson's your quarterback. He's your starter. But like Jordan Rogers even said the broadcast you're going to have a package four gate. Asking you I'm not asking about a package I'm asking you. Is there a scenario where? What we'll just take what Mike Leach did with. K. J. Costello. Any tried that freshman for a while. Now that didn't work either but he tried it is there a scenario you could see that happening at Tennessee? You're GONNA, have a package ready for Joey Gate. Would you're not going to struggles? Would you let me finish? So when the offense struggles, you can have him ready to put him in. That's the situation they're going to have, but it's not only switching your quarterback I mean, it's not the. Packages where you bring them in, you say I want to see what three or four plays are like. When they brought in that that freshman. They were saying it's your team right now let's see what you do. I don't. I don't think that's package I think a package. As you say, we're GONNA do one drive with him, and then we'll go back to Terry. Is there a scenario in your mind where they go and say for at least the next few series you're our quarterback. I don't think so. I think they put him in for a package I. Think they want man see what he can do, and if you have success, then they leave him in but they don't let them more saying the same thing because that's that if you're willing to put him in and leave him in then he's your quarterback at that point. If they do well I. Don't think you could take him out. You have to leave your man. Okay well, that's not any different than what I'm saying but I think this is the first time they would have considered that. Like they didn't consider that in this game. Would you agree? Yep So do you think that? Terry's whether it's poor play or just stagnant offense for the first time They are going to consider. Using Joey Gatewood as a potential starting quarterback by starting I. Don't mean actually starting the game but quarterback one. Now in a game. I think. So yeah, not as a starter carries your starter and they're gonNA roll with him as long as he's doing well, but I think Joey's arm is we'll be loose in the bullpen just if needed. See I feel like we agreed on that entire thing. Kennedy did. Yeah. It took you to get there there together who's up I started Jerry Jerry what's up Jerry. I got this I wanNA say is great job by the defense that was championship level defense we gotta have. To Compete. But the biggest problem I saw with the offense and Mississippi state stored in this about the middle of the second quarter and its word me I in the game when they had that blitz play and and they've flattened terry on it is they're putting seven eight nine guys up in the box until our quarterbacks and wide receivers. Make them pay for that. We're GONNA see that every game because that Gimmick Defense has parsing offensive line was having a hard time and I and eighty nine is driving me nuts. He whiffs on a block almost caused a safety. And they need and at the end of the game, put trending and Cummings in there. During comings and their Mississippi state backed off and they were both past places Joey Gay with you're right about everything you say there and I appreciate the call the combination of either not calling the plays Terry not making throws guys dropping or not getting open they're going to have to have that in the. Twitter's. Take, a break here. Times. It's a great time to get a great deal on a new car when you get approved for an auto loan from Penn are powered by truecar rates are as low as one point, three nine percents APR new vehicles finance for a longer term to lower your monthly bill plus take up to sixty days to schedule your first payment, join Penn Fed and together we'll keep you moving forward. Anyone can apply visit Penn Fed dot org slash auto, or call one, eight hundred. Two four, seven, five, six, two, six. To receive any advertise product. You must become a member of pen fed insured by NCUA. General Dynamics has supported our nation's exploration of space for the last sixty years now GD, it's combining the latest technology innovations to deliver enterprise scale IT systems for a new era of space missions. We secure today imbedding resilient cyber solutions into every aspect of the mission, and we prepare for tomorrow to preempt future risk digital modernization networks, cyber shared services, and. Intelligence Gd it propelling the art of the possible visit DDAT DOT com slash space. Pitch in Kentucky. On Kentucky Sports Radio. Talk Radio. Share that people like Irritable Ryan. I love. Irritable Ryan. Is a fan favorite. Yeah Yeah. Yeah. One person writes Matt it was clear Ryan Was it going to answer your question but I like when he gets irritable, it makes it funny. I knew that was going sideways answer that I knew you were gonNA come back that's not what I asked you. And then he finished and he still at Nancy when I asked but it turns out I. Think we were in the same place I just feel like saying he really wanted to use the word package. Thrown around a long on his the SARS or dictionary of the day, and it said Brian Limit Please, use the word package. And he did. Take a shot every time you hear that one birthrights Matt doesn't want rides opinion. He just wants Ryan to agree with him now that's not true. You do have a way of sort of. Talking somebody full circle back to your units. That's a lawyer in you. That's the lawyer, the debate and the law right. But I but let me say this though when Rai I will say I've learned over the years about right when he says something with definitive nece. Shannon you and I've seen it often means he knows something right? I mean, that usually means he knows and I think that's especially true on football. He has I don't know if he like knows. The people who mow the grass there or the trainers or does he know somebody see? That's no longer Ryan though at that point that scoop he transforms into his alter egos scoop and you don't question Scoop I. Agree. So I can't tell if scoops definitive nece with the word package is a scooping thing. Or Dictionary of the day it felt scooby to me I'm just saying Ryan was scooby. But what we're talking about the A. Thing. So like so so now I'm switching and I'm believing Shannon then at some point during the Tennessee game, we are definitely going to see joey gave me too. Yeah. Now I believe this is what I believe just having learned to speak they used to have back during the Cold War they would have people who would speak Kremlin. In, America, you know what I'm talking about. So like Russia everything would be propaganda and the American government employed people who knew how to read between the lines and I speak good. Limon. Propaganda. Right you know. It seems to me that they're going to use Joey gatewood in in your words, a package against Tennessee that fair to say but you know during the course of a game though things completely changed we've seen it before you know you and I both have known things anticipated things but don't know backpedal now don't answer that question you'd like He. He skipped over the answer and gave the caveat. The cause. That to happen though is the plan in your mind to have a Joey gatewood series. I don't know because you know people Tennessee could be listening and we don't know what they're going. That's a yes shannon. So now we'll see. So that means if we get a Joey gatewood series I, think everybody into tweet out scoop because I think scoop has said it without saying, I'm just saying I better see a package on Saturday or I'm going to be disappointed. Pack Out, Scoop Package yes. HASHTAG SCOOP. PATCH TAGS SCOOP PACK What Person Rights Matt. Do. You feel better about the fact we lost Ole miss since they nearly beat Alabama. Now I mean I'm glad miss isn't terrible but Ryan, we should have won that game regardless of what they did is Alabama that game was there for us to win. No question we should have beat Oh miss we all watched it. I thought we were the better football team that Oh miss. What did it against Alabama's irrelevant? We knew we were better than Ole. Miss on that night. It shouldn't think the SEC is a lot more open Ryan this year than it's been in other years meaning Alabama, and Georgia are the best teams but I don't know that anybody is as good as they've been in other years and I actually think the bad teams are better than they normally are. Yeah we saw Texas A and M beat Florida we saw Missouri Lsu we're seeing all these power teams being vulnerable this year most definitely who's next trip. Package Scoop. Yes I'm excited now when Joey Gatewood goes in I'm going to be like see we knew then there's the package there's the package go ahead trip. Good morning guys a contract Somerset, looking for your down the weekend. Yes we're down there. Friday night we named Lexington Christian Somerset is the KS SR game of the week, the top two teams in class today. So we'll be down there Friday that game. Okay, I had I two things I wanted to ask you one was. Take. The dog and then the other was, how did this whole thing with Com- heart get started? It amazes me how much he? Drops the case are. Good questions about first of all. Appreciate the call Federer. Did you know Ryan that Nidal Todd Federer for most Grand Slams ever this week? Did you know that I didn't realize that I? Think this weekend. Yeah. That's his twentieth Grand Slam. So now he and Fedor have both won twenty. I still would say federal is the better overall player because thirteen of Nidal's twenty have come on clay. He is the best clay player ever buy like a million. But I still would put federer. Him Overall. But. We've talked about this before Ryan the three best tennis players to ever play. All play at the same time. Right that amazing it is amazing. And wouldn't you hate to be any of the other players? Shannon. Yeah. Hey your whole life, and you're like I'm going to be a great tennis player and then all the sudden you happen to be in the generation with the three best to ever do it. I think Pete Sampras would drag all of them all three of them no no, you would not even close I. Love. Pete Sampras but no he he was great on grass. You can make an argument. He's the best on grass ever but when he never won on clay. And No. It's not I mean Love Pizza Pizza played in an era where it was just serve that was all you had to do was have a great servant. He had the best serve of all time, right? Yeah. But he didn't have nothing else tough call for you. Can we Federer on the show but you gotTa Selfie with at all. So who you go pick well, the thing I like about those two guys, they're the best two players along Djokovic. unfettering a dollar both extremely nice. Like. Cal Somebody that good that night so I like them both now second point about Tom Heart I. Think it started Ryan in the Bahamas right oh it sure. Yeah we we hanging out blackjack we were hitting on twenty. Four he didn't have anything to do. So he started hanging out with us. We took him out on a boat. We rented a boat for a day and took him out and he had fun and we just became friends and like you know, obviously his shout out to John Short and we'll talk more about that in second hour was wonderful. But he also did things Shannon like reference the Kroger Plus Card I heard that yeah I mentioned you shouldn't be sharing your kroger plus card. Well No, he said. He said Jordan Rogers was the Kinda guy or co cubicles the Kinda Guy who wouldn't share his kroger bryce right. Throughout the Mike Leach rollerblading story, he can tell he likes to relate to the BBN and. Audience when he does it Kentucky game that's exactly right who's up. One more thing about what he did. For him to broadcast a game in his basement is extremely extremely hard for him. You just watch the game on a on a screen in his basement, and then he has a power failure. And then you know Jordan Rogers and coke they tried do play by play and you can see how they struggle. It's it's. Not Easy like you. Because I thought they did fine but you can see how much you need a play by play guy during that time. Yes. You're right. It kinda shows his value and how good he is when those guys had to try to pick up the job when he had his power power failure, you gotta get generator. Here's some breaking news. That's very sad that I know folks listening here. Will want to hear. Former. Red. Joe Morgan has passed away oh my. Can Twenty twenty just stop just stop really. seventy seven years old. Seventy seven years old course played for the big red machine was an announcer for many years to. Yes. A good one as well. So. Sad rest of. Joe Morgan. Accent. Tori Tori are you Tori? Well, so I think I know why Ryan never watched any of the Dick Sporting events before the show it's because I'm pretty he has the football facility bugged and he's like constantly surveilling outside the van just pick up the leaks he gets them. Now there is no doubt I would make the argument that when it comes not to recruiting because there are other people who follow recruiting when it comes to just what's going on in their he might have better sources shannon than anybody you know what I mean Yeah Yeah I think he probably does he probably does. So I agree with you tour. So quick. Thanks. So during you taking and football I like to go to the other teams came twitter just to see like if we're doing well like to see other fans miserable for once during a football game and really early on in the in the. Game. They immediately calling for to be pulled and the Rogers to be put in I. Think it's just the human condition like a football fan like pretty average fan. They don't know the specific and the INS and outs of football which I don't either because it's very complicated game. And they always goes like what's putting the other quarterback because there has to be that'll solve all the problems on both sides putting who ever seen on the bench. Weird. quarterback sucked no offense to it. Oh. Yeah. An and then the next thing I think you guys should. Incorporate Adam luck it more into the end of the show at least after football games because. He broke down so Kentucky like I've been running like seventy thirty run pass and this most recent game they were like fifty, five, forty, five. And it's true that the more we pass the less success we have just by the numbers. I. Appreciate the call. If you listen to the case, our football podcast where they use him a lot and they in the podcast, the personnel thing he does as well. Adam knows a lot and we football coverage on on the website. But with him nick grass and Freddie is I think Excellent but going back. Reid does it scooped? There's no you know something. So we I mean, we're GONNA. See Joey. Gatewood. And I don't think the Tennessee coaches listening, but if he is. I would if I was them because you know he knows. Yeah nobody knows. Nobody knows. It's all guess we'll take a break berry backs Kesar more of the chaos are blue lights across the bluegrass county by county virtual tour presented by the Kentucky Office of Highway. Safety. After this to talk to Jones in the crew called the Clark's pump and shop phone line at five, zero, two, five, seven, one, eighty, or one, eight, seven, seven, nine, four. Know for more us on the bleep Kentucky Sports Radio on. Talk Radio Tanny. Japan sticks. It's Ryan fixes. One of those very famous bands I don't know anything about. I love sticks the stair case to have all their eight tracks that little thing I just don't know those people. Yeah, they got weird Mr Roberto. People have strong opinions on his tennis thing. What are they saying? Well, they don't like that. I. Said Fedor was the best but I do believe that the here's the thing the dolls the best ever on clay. Jovic. Is the best ever on hardcourt? I think Federer and Sampras together are the best on grass. You could go either way. But I think better was better on the others than those. Now Djokovic may end up passing them both. because. He's younger than these guys and he's going to have more years. This is probably you could make a strong argument that. The doll winning that this may be the last time either one of them wins. But DJOKOVIC has seventeen they both have twenty and Ryan. Jovic has got another five years of his career. And you said that the best three of all time if you throw in Serena you've got the best suite layer of all times read as the best Serena's the best athlete female athletes in her sport ever. And in my opinion. So, yes you're exactly right in tennis. She's the best of all time. So all right here right now right now, Steffi Graf is probably second and she is I in my in my One person writes Matt Joe, Morgan was my favorite player of all time hearing. You say he passed literally made me cry those people connected to those old reds teams of course, I was not even born. But there was a visceral strong connection to the you know Pete Rose, Johnny, bench Joe Morgan Tony Perez. Like that group of reds and I do think people see them almost his family don't you? Yes especially the baseball fans in this. Area you know the big red machine fans of Cincinnati and Kentucky. Just. It is very sad. You said that affects all of us. I played in a golf tournament Johnny, bench, and for people of a certain age I'd say like fifty five and above. You Know Ryan Johnny Bench that was like a superstar. You know larger than life larger than life for those people. Yeah and and I think probably Joe Morgan is a lot like that. For folks for folks as well. We have talked about to other things three other things in the SEC really quick first of all the end of the Arkansas Auburn game if you in Arkansas and would you be angry? Do you think they got screwed? I've you know I don't i. don't understand the rule and I heard people try to explain the rule. So what happened is he takes the first of all the ball fumbles. Fat. And you're not allowed to spike at then. Okay It's intentional grounding if you spike it after fumble, did you know that I didn't know that was the no no idea. So. That's apparently the so it could have been intentional grounding. But what happened is he actually spiked it backwards. Which is technically a fumble. So. Arkansas. Recovered it and should have gotten the ball and one. But the referee thinking he had spiked it forward blew the whistle dead in the SEC said that because he did that the recovery of the fumble wasn't valid and it was auburn's ball where he spiked it. and. By the way because it was backwards, they also didn't penalizing for intentional grounding. So. Like not only did they not back it up ten yards and first of all now Arkansas, not get the ball back it up ten yards for the field goal. So being the worst result, it could be for Arkansas. Auburn hits the field. Goal wins. Game. They said, he blew the whistle and the fact that everybody froze. He said that that factored into their decision. It's all Fan Shannon? You'd be they. They did get screwed screwed. Yeah. What about Tennessee coaches mask? It wasn't a man, not a man. Believe that that was going to pass as a mask. We'll see at the SEC issues, any fines today, or the coaches for their first of all Basques that was a Bonnet Shane and that was not. This. Even know how those things are. Why was it on top of his head? Did he ever pull it over his face at all. I never saw except, did you see the pre-game picture where he covered his entire face? No I didn't see that there's a pre-game picture. Here some people some people were saying, he looked like E. T. when they covered them and. Put them in the basket of of the bike. Could not have looked more ridiculous. Was Not about ask but why did he put it on the top of his head? I understand he wa- It wasn't a mask and he'll I think he should get fined for that. But put that to the side. Why was it on top of his head? To No one on his team say, Hey, maybe look like an idiot. Behind, his back somebody needs somebody please send me the picture. There's a picture of him before the Game Talking Kirby smart and he has his entire fe here. I got it. Yeah. He looks like he's back to me I want to look at it. I. See you see what I'm saying he has his entire face covered. Yeah. He looks like he's GonNa go rob a bank. CHECKERBOARDS WHO's up next? Let's go to Dan Dan. How are you? Dan Hey bad at Stanford Laki Mail I think what and I'm about overloaded from sports. This weekend changed the batteries in remote. anyway. On the Kentucky Game and Man I'm I'm confused now Dan mcdonagh Kentucky Paying Donna, Wilson Fan. But you know I think that I'm saying. I think in the Tennessee game. That they're gonNA put it. You put him in a little bit earlier and you're saying if we don't start score early. Go. Put Him and this is just my opinion. Now, Ryan Again Ryan may have some some knowledge I. Don't know on this we haven't talked about. I don't think they'll put him in just if we're not scoring I think they'll putting for behind because the one thing about the way we play entertainment is it's hard to come back like you know we can. We can nurture lead very well like we did Saturday but it's hard to come back. I wouldn't expect the same unless we go down. In Ryan May know I don't know. Let me ask you. You know all of the Florida governor came out and said that. He May let pool fans go in the Florida Stadium. But it's not just his. His decision, it's the SEC. So the. Weekend didn't make any difference I. Don't know what? The gotTa look at that and I appreciate the call 'cause tech saying M, Ryan, it looked like they didn't follow any rule at all. Yeah look like they had a pretty much full stadium. Stand dance video. I understand Dan Mullen being upset about that. The put in this rule that I thought the rule was you can't have more than thirty three percent or whatever, and they did that because they assumed correctly that the rules in various states would be different and they wanted there to be a uniform policy and I thought that was the right thing to do. But whatever they're all was Ryan Texas am did not follow it. Yeah. There was a lot more than thirty three percent. Just the video looked like that. I. Saw that game. So I think did mullets got a right to be a little upset and now he's petitioning he wants. To let that still doesn't change the SEC rule right. So even if the I think the Florida governor has said, you can have a full stadium which is the wrong thing to do. But whatever in Florida right now I think they just inject. Your brains when you walk in. You Know Shane they seem to have no policies whatsoever. They missed me when I was down there. But yes, to your point they they've opened it up. Even if the Florida Governor says that as I understand it the ruined the SEC. There's a maximum. But to me Ryan, it looks like they weren't enforcing that at that Texas am game. So can the SEC fine eight ill? I think that's the SEC. Today. Is An interesting question? Will they find these coaches? And will they find an in because if they don't run these schools are GONNA do whatever. What is you don't find them in the schools are going to go well, why should not cause 'cause? mullins right. That gave him a huge advantage. In the policy whatever it is, the policy needs to be the same curl. We'll take a break come back number two. Chinese. I'm Joe, Biden candidates for president and I approve this message when it comes to criminal justice reform history has not been on our side I feel as though the nation has become desensitized but black people have not as a father I have to turn around and talk to my twelve euros. Old Son about police interactions is scares the hell out of me. Uniquely understand the plight of what we've been going through. Those are the things I do trust him to lead us that feature. These are the candidates wish Congress and say, we can't get there before Biden for president.

Irritable Ryan Kentucky football Tennessee SEC Joey Gatewood Mike Leach Florida Mississippi State Shannon Jordan Rogers Mississippi Terry Wilson Matt Jones Nidal Todd Federer Joe Morgan Joey Kate Yeah Joe Biden Tom Terry
Episode 865: Semler

Relevant Podcast

53:54 min | 2 months ago

Episode 865: Semler

"This is relevant. It's tuesday february sixteenth. Two thousand twenty one and this relevant podcast here in orlando cameron. Strang and joining me from lebanon virginia jesse gary from austin texas author. Podcast jamie ivy and from nashville tennessee. Artists producer mogul derek. minor yosi We have a great so as you. Today later we talked to similar the music. Moniker of grace baldrige. She's made waves this last week. Because her ep preacher's kid hit the number one spot on the turns christian album charts despite no label a radio play and get this x. Carrying an explicit. Lyric warning definitely the first time i can think of an explicit album has hit number one in the christian charts very interesting story. You don't wanna miss it. You guys keep believe that we are in the second half of february already like this has been the this has been the longest six weeks of my life and also right years already flying so i. It's it's really bizarre february sixteen today. It's crazy kim. Can i ask them. Valentine's day real quick and i want to share this okay. I'm a. I'm someone who i got a big a major sweet tooth. Okay like i love candy live by by savory stuff you know like you have a bowl of doritos or whatever. It is going to do it for me. Okay if sweets. I'm all about and here's my. Here's my thing with valentine's day okay. It's like we're adults here right. We're at the we're we're all at. You know the the ages where our children. We can't just eat a mountain of candy right lively for yourself. I mean you. Can you feel gross. It just it just not something. Adults do especially in in like a season of romance. Where like i wanna feel my best. I wanna look my best. Maybe eating twenty five chocolates at one setting is the candy thing at at valentine's day. I'm the. I honestly think it's time to revisit like kid there the because if someone gets me valentine's candy okay. It's not like halloween. Where i could just put it in the family candy area like i feel bad giving other giving away my valentine's candy misgiving you valentine's candy other wife. That's what i'm saying. My wife my kids era. I got a pilot candy every year. I feel obligated. Eat can we come up with an jamie. You're shaking your head. I told we had this discussion last week at dinner. We have a young guy that lives with us. He's twenty three has a girlfriend now. I was coaching him on what to do for valentine's day and i was like listen. Do not get your girlfriend candy. Like i don't want candy. Who wants candy for valentines day. That's what you do in high school middle school like you go to the heart with a bear attached to it and you give it to the girl you like. Don't bring me candy. i hate it. Also valentine's candy is extremely mid. It's not really good at. It's very low grade even chocolates. They're bad those chocolates are awful right. I don't eat can't chocolates. The variety half of them are like that burst of weird. Cherry thing where you have to bite something to find out what it is. No i'm out. Message was with the messages to right. Are we hearts hearts with the messages off okay. I just wanna make sure but all of the holidays. Valentine's candy is the. It's close close because at least with at least with halloween candy in a spell. Yeah sorry me later on their got it. I got it. It same candy was the last twelve jere deli chocolate. Segue like if you give me candy and your loved one. I wouldn't feel obligated to eat that candy even though as we establish ing. It's not all that great candy. It's candy you like if i'm at the gas station and i my sweet tooth what i'm not going to be like. Yeah i wonder if they have any jeered deli chocolate. I wonder if they have a box of chocolates. And i'll go in the course to grab eminem's or something that a normal human just consumes not just rando candy that someone gives me that. I'm now oddly. If i throw it away. I look like a bad spouse. It's like oh my son game. My daughter gave me candy. What i'm not going to be jerk throw away. I'm gonna power candy. I just had two thoughts. Okay number one kosov. The gift in candy problem real easy money does give me money. You save how it works. It just works at given. Who's given you anything for valentine's day. You giving money for valentine's day craziest. That's so share banking account. We do so get your money. Okay put it can't just give you. Somebody is go. i don't even care. Just say listen. We're going to. We're done a lot you derrick to get the ps four now or a ps five. He's like hey like you don't have to go wrap it up all that stuff look bay. I can't your today's gone. Go get you go. Get your peers fire. That's that and another thing. I thought about this. Why are all the seasonal candies awful peeps candy corn those little heart things chalky with the messages on a lightning Seasonal candies are just awful Why is it is it. Was it a contest as like. Let's make it a worse candy for the season. Like is that a thing i got. I got a solution for the money thing. Jamie you know where it's like. You're giving your your spouse money share the same bank counters just like you know what's the point. Yeah here's what you do you put you put like one hundred fifty bucks. Whatever whatever the denomination that you want to give you put an envelope hannity your husband. You're happy valentine's day and you look. I'm right in the i go. Don't ask where that came from the wink. And i they did this money but all right i said gonna go over too. Well just you know kind of be really disturbed if my wife was like. Don't ask for that. Came with a weekly little a little side note. Aaron and i got engaged twenty years ago on valentine's day How dare you gals twenty years causing. That's a smart man. so now he he. He knows how to really like did we. Just it's fountains is always weird to me. I think it's weird. I mean i'm like i don't i to me. I'm the kind of person like if you're gonna valentine's that's fine. Don't bring me like candy and don't bring me something that says valentine's like just bring me like like you said like i thought of you. So here's the skift fourteen. What's a good valentine's day gift. Give me an example. Like what is something that you'll be like so i was telling my friend last week. I was like hey get her a gift of the to go get her nails. Give her something that she might not spend on herself. So something useful something that she could go and spend a day doing this or whatever. That's what i that's that's my advice. So we couples day or a day by yourself. Like i think i think it depends on where you are in life. Sometimes a mom with young kids. She wants a data herself. You know But i'll take a couples day and listen guys. We're we're two days late for people listening so that marketing your brain for next year. Yeah yeah yeah all right. We'll move. There's a long stay do next. It's license your area houses. Spa listen to oliver tree. Song is out of ordinary but today show is brought to you by better help. Twenty twenty was interesting so let's do a mental health. Check in. how are you really. What do you need. Therapy can help. Now what is therapy. It's whatever you want to be. You can get some tools to help with motivation depression anxiety. Battling your temper stress dealing with insecurity and relationships are at work. Whatever you need. It's time to stop being ashamed of normal human struggles in start feeling better because you deserve to be happy. Better help is customized online therapy that offers video phone and even live chat sessions with your therapist. So you don't have to see anyone on camera you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in person therapy and you can start communicating with your therapist and under forty eight hours. I'm telling you. Therapy and counseling has changed my life and so many others. We can't stress enough. How important it is and better. Help is such a good option. Join the millions of people who are seeing what therapy is really about. See if it's for you because you are your greatest asset and relevant podcast listeners. Right now can get ten percent off their first month at better help dot com slash relevant again. That's better health. H e l p dot com slash relevant. Okay it's time for us. Jesse all right so i don't know if you guys heard about the hot new social media platform there's actually looking to solve a lot of the major issues that some of the legacy platforms are introducing new. One of the things. Last week was how you know. There's this relationship between social media use and happiness Well i wanted to guys about a new platform. That is getting a lot of attention. right now. is recently written about in fast company Gizmodo did a big feature on advice did a feature on it and it's a platform that offers a lot of functionality that we're used to but it is actually a lot of the people who are reviewing it early on have found that it seems to make them happier in a lot of ways. The platform is called space. Hey and it is the invention of an eighteen year of a of a russian teenager and If you were to go check this out you may notice something interesting about space i. It appears to be an exact copy of old school mice space. Oh and so this. Eighteen year old teenager Ended up looking through the internet archives and after talking with some friends who are older who were sort of reminiscing about the good old my space days. He decided to basically recreate my space from looking at kind of old pictures and functionality and he has a standing a working version that the look and functionality of old school my space but something interesting happened when these different outlets said advice. Fast company is moto. A bunch started reviewing it. They noticed how enjoyable the experience was of playing around on this platform especially compared to things like instagram twitter and facebook. And here is the re is some of the reasons why well did you know my space. For for the unacquainted who didn't have it was an early sort of social media platform where you set up a profile. You got friends. You could You know upload photos lot of functionality. We're used to but it also allows you to kind of customer customize your page with music and you know kind of animation and kind of how. There's a lot of more freedom than you know in terms of your the customization options to modern platforms but what it also lacks is a news feed and what a lot of the reviewers found. Is that when you strip away the news feed and you take away the social media platforms algorithms which determine what content. It actually shows you. It creates this kind of more free experience where not just the most inflammatory content automatically goes up into the news feed and in fact because my space was built before monetization was really figured out for these platforms it strips away all of the insidiousness that has made its way into social media platforms so as these reviewers kind of kicking around. They all sort of noticed like one. Even though there's lots more customization options it felt like a much more relaxed experience. The other thing they notice is there's no mechanism to like anything so you can comment on somebody's blog but you can't like it so all the sudden that sort of commodification where different pieces of content are assigned different values based on how much they're light that competition feature automatically goes away. They also notice one more key piece of functionality that they say kind of attributes to the sort of the charm of this is there is no mobile app in order to go. Use this you have to be on a desktop device which is two things one it requires more a requires you to be kinda somewhere someone stationary but to it requires somewhat of a degree of t yet to navigate their on your browser you have to go click through to friends and it's not just touching one app on your phone interface while you wait in line for groceries and get you kind of sucked in with all these it creates a degree of activity so this this this kind of clone my space is the site that this teenager setup for a joke is getting all this attention because he may have inadvertently rediscovered what people actually want in social sites and it has nothing to do with all the bells and whistles big tech has built in to monetize it That's amazing. I'm not even allowed. That sounds like a place i want. Go cheers them. I feel like it is like you said something that people want. But then i'm thinking but do they actually like are they willing to give up that scrolling in the grocery line i mean i don't know i i don't know if it will totally Supplant i do know most certainly won't wife most people won't make the jump but I do think it is an interesting reminder of what you know. Kind of drew. People are social media in the first place. And how slowly What they call in the tech world scope creep kinda came in and made something that was charming in a fun way to connect with your friends and make custom pages and stay in touch with people into something whereas like a contest where my post i wanted to see if he could get this many likes or i wanna make sure my thing get in this many feet when it turns out if you take all that stuff away. It's actually a totally different experience. One that we might all be better for going to kick the tires with again. The the more terrible experiences become too big of an industry. There's too much money. There's people whose careers are posting in creating content on those platforms brands have shifted from digital advertising and traditional advertising to influence or advertising and product placement advertising. Like there's too much money now. The machine is huge. Must mice basically the same way though. There was a millionaires made off a my space. What was named cassie p. Diddy a lot of lot of lot of artists. Scott got onto those are talented artists. Not just not just ran. Hundreds of pretty girls wanted to make our remember the girl's name because she had a tv show on mtv teela tequila -til true. See what she was the she was like the number one person on my space out they see might have been like the first like influence of that. You mean she got big on my space and then got mtv Mtv show like she has lies. She didn't do pretty but they got discovered there and then got real jobs that paid them. You can make a living with true just being on instagram. And i don't think any of the major platforms are going anywhere anytime soon. I certainly don't think this kind of fun. Little upstart experiment is going to actually threaten them. But it is sort of a bond way to remember that the roots of this thing weren't all about you know like i said the commodification of content. That wasn't what it was rooted in. It was rooting with ways. You know how to stay connected with each other. When and the the value slowly shifted over the years where even now a normal person posting content thinks of it through the filter of an influence or look in this photo. How many people were going to like it. I remember get ratio. Is this gonna cause me professional harm where the mice based as it about connecting with friends. And when you go and kick the tires with a platform like that you know again. I don't think it's gonna actually threatening to replace anything but i can't offer a kind of a fun reminder. That social media doesn't have to be what it evolved into. It can be a place you know. I mean what was the mice face. Call it a place for friends life. We yeah if we look at some of these look at how these algorithms affected how we behave how we relate to each other how we're wired to think about what voices matter in which voices. Don't i think this kind of going. Around and goofing around on space is a nice reminder of Of how those systems evolved and how destructive they can be if we don't keep them in check that's good. What do you have jamie. Well i i need a new name. Teela tequila or to leila tequila ad so exciting. Like why you know. I'd never heard of toledo tequila tyler. I wasn't allowed to watch. Mtv in high school she had a dating show. Show a shot of love. I wouldn't either inc any of that stuff. None of us. I injected mtv main. Mind it as nine. I remember watching beavis and butthead. Eight this is pretty cool. Oh yeah you said you watch anything yeah okay. So here's what i got today. I don't know if you guys know this about me. But i hate roller coasters. In fact. I think when i was listening to you guys show last week. You guys talked a little bit about this. And how who was the guy that was on. Tuesday tom terry thurman tabs setting where and went to a real a a what do you call them a theme park and just want to find. Yeah i wanna find like the tv watch. I do not like roller coasters. I think i'm gonna die. I'm the person that when i get in. I'm the one calling the attendant over to check my lap belt like three more times. I'm holding the early last time. I took my kids. My kids are like mom. Stop and check it just one more time. Like shirts roller coasters. I am convinced. I'm gonna die. Well there's a new world's fastest roller coaster that's being built at a six flags park in saudi arabia. Actually it's going to be done in two thousand. And twenty three falcons flight It's going to be the world's longest tallest and vasa to go one hundred fifty five miles per hour. There's nothing in me that thinks this sounds found some you guys. Yes i love gosh derek. I'm good jesse. Jamie don't i just don't get on them. I have bad vertigo. Just is too cautious too. I'm not dude. I have a weak stomach cameron. We've jude traversed desert in a jeep together and you saw what happens my stomach if it gets a little bumpy a little too fast. It's day runar. I call rollercoaster where this is a black and then now. We're going to feel like i need to barf they. Thanks there's eighty bucks. Gone just. Because i want to walk around all day. You know so reason. It'll last about three minutes and you're gonna go almost two and a half miles. Obviously because you're going one hundred fifty five miles per hour but that is new two thousand twenty three. If you're planning your next trip to saudi arabia. You could go visit this new six flags Park and ride the fastest roller coaster. I'm out but the here in orlando a lotta rides. But they're building. The new building is like there's this area of town where there's this building like individual rights. Where you just go. There's like restaurants and whatever and then there's a ride you can ride you just walking downtown. You could get like on international convention center. Yeah it's just like something to do you don't have to park and so what they're doing though is this. Developer is building the world's largest or tallest versions of whatever. The rides are so right now. They they've opened the world's tallest. Spinney thing so you sit in the chair the hanging by the chains and it's been around in a circle it goes up four hundred and fifty feet and and you're flying around like this comes back down. Do i was reading the other day because you can see it from the interstate. So every time we drive by. I'll say to my little kid. I'll be like. Hey you want to go on that. And he's like no like he's as fears is up there in a chair swinging around Somebody somebody flung off at the died. Thank you. This is why i will never do it. It's not that they're building the world's tallest roller coaster and it's gonna go straight up five hundred feet like tower and then just kind of twisted tway down the tower. Now what about all the way down. Five hundred feet though fifty story building. That's crazy daddy. I can't imagine i don't want to imagine. Oh and they're doing. The world's tallest slingshot you down on the jump in. It's going to be like six hundred feet tall. You just fly up and then you're going mad. It's kind of brushed over the fact that somebody outflung off one multiple rides. That could do the same type of thing. I know it's sad. It's like you. I mean the theme parks people die all the time because they do silly not silly they do stupid things like somebody will go on space mountain which is a very tame rollercoaster at magic kingdom. And you'll find out that somebody because if you it's an indoor roller coaster and going around like this big metal truss structure you know and somebody's stupidly. Try to crawl out from under the harness and stand up and they get decapitated Is just like well. it's not. That ride was unsafe nydia. And that's apparently what happened with this person on this other ride. They tried to like crawl out of the harness and then be daredevil and then the died you know so yeah still. Even so jamie done roller. I'll be at home. Yeah i'm good. I'm going on i what derek. Yes on Twenty twenty one spinach consent send emails. So what is that. Just apparently edge so apparently because of the route System nest spinach. Have they can look. They're pretty well connected. So they are able to sense carbon in the they saw guests these scientists inject nanno bots into the spinach and spinach are able to determine whether it is like a lot of carbon into the ground and then they send an alert to the doctors that there's carbon so we're all gonna die because for some reason we wanna keep doing stuff like this just like neuralink boy you know alanis is doing nanno butts are here and a and in our spinach there every robots that are really really really really really really small. You can't see. And i think for this one in particular it was sort of like almost like a pr thing to kind of show. You know that people get ice for mistaken. But i think part of it is kind of like signing up for alerts that the actual crops are sending emails to let you know that carbon levels are getting to a dangerous You know level But then alert. i won't yeah a and i think that the heart behind it is to raise some degree of awareness for Carbon levels and climate change but nanotechnology is also very cool but somewhat terrifying as well. It's it's very scary like you can't see it. You injected in in the spinach to send messages in emails like do you. Do you eat the. I don't know it's the for live. Spinners like they're in the ground right in the routing system right so i guess once you pull the i. I don't know if the nights are still in the spinach when you pull it out of the ground maybe it is. I have finished for lunch yesterday. I might add some nights. They might be sending for my stomach. I have no clue was going on. I just know that this is beyond me. I won't the regular world back you. I you know what. I could see down the road thing about one hundred years from now. Somebody's sick they inject them like a shot of nano bots and then antibiotics go into the body system and go and repair the dna of the thing that cancer cell. That could say. It's not even one hundred years from now. That i mean they are ten years. Well yeah i mean they already have some nano bots. That are that have you know. Can deliver medicines and things like that I it's basically like germs sized yet. Robots that can be programmed to do cellular task which is pretty crazy to think about. What the yellow school bus cartoon did they would. They would shrink down to like cell size and then go into rotties extract zillow biology back out. Now here's what they here's a here's a terrifying implications of the magic school. Bus bus comes back to life the wrong time. We're talking full on disaster for whoever knows. I'm not that a kid. Show the person i ask you. Gotta you gotta bus full of children out. Hey everyone let's learn about the small intestines today. Well it's all fun and games still lose track of time like. Oh can't you gallbladder okay do a field trip. Yeah yeah it's gonna be fun we're gonna we're gonna zoom up disperse unsuspecting persons. Those freedom real close. Look you're gonna have a real great understanding of biology. It's a great adventure. You come in there like zoo at around. Its tire in there and all the sudden orientation tire. Twenty minutes of kids are going to be fine. The buses getting me fine really really bad for this person. Who's go walking staring down the this free. Get behind the wheel drive with a flat tire now. Eight is going to be a grisly scene. Very very quick. There's about to go from a lesson in biology to lesson in csi crime scene investigations. It's going to get the bus out of here right now for slices stay tuned up next similar joins us with long john. Silver good Line faces i just finished you. Listen to the song is good days garris. Baldrige is a singer songwriter. Who performs under the moniker. Similar her new ep. Preacher's kid came out of nowhere. Debut at number one on the i tunes christian charts without a label or any radio play a couple of weeks ago or last week but really caused. A stir is the album's explicit label in the fact that she describes the ep as quote a project about coming out as a queer person of faith definitely a very interesting artist and project to be at the top christian charts. Probably the first we can think of Like it so since we cover the intersection of faith and culture here relevant. We wanted to reach out to her and learn more about her music and her story. Here is our conversation with baseball. Eight nine stone. All perish mc launch out to insist that down down. Thank you for taking time to talk to us. And i know it's been a very busy last few days so i appreciate you make. It hasn't been busy. I assume it's been a busy last few days. Yeah it's definitely been a different past few days then like a week ago. It's very different But it's been really exciting and encouraging and i set sort of a goal you know. Wouldn't it be kinda cool to crack. The top forty christian music projects and i was even like bit shy about revealing that too. Many people Work pretty hard on this. But this is. I recorded everything at home like this. Usc might strike. I understand that my resources are limited. But i think that night when we started seeing not just that it was on the charts. But i i think also just people really resonating with music was i think that was just really surreal. I it's was personal music. I've ever written on so you sort of assume like like this and so i think that has been the most encouraging heartening Is just that other. People seem to be listening in being like no i. I really got what you're talking about has been like that's just been wild. It's all you can hope for as an artist you not feel understood. Isn't it weird. How it's such an almost tried to say. But it's still weird when you reveal something that's still so personal and so unique to yourself and that's the thing that ends up being what connects just like an old lesson but it still is like. Oh yeah there's a reason this is a this is a truism away now i believe it i out jesus from texas as a demo on my soundcloud i was never gonna like share it anywhere else i just wanted. I was really going through. Scientists wanted to share it and kind of get out of a system and some has. That's how i am when i write. Just if i just finished the Put it out there. And then just seeing people identify with and then also recognizing it myself that Clearly topping into something. I need to write about. But i didn't. I thought at the time i was like this is bad It's obvious like it's just so blunt but like you just say get it out there and now it's a song i'm just so fond of because i think it was so honestly i think i need to be struck. A nerve obviously did with me to demand if we go back a little bit and talk about the a- the the can you tell me about your growing up experience sure so i grew up in waterloo belgium. Parents are american and my dad is an episcopal priest so i grew up in the rectory and pretty much just like typical church kit upbringing. I would think you know. We're going to church multiple times a week. The churches kind of more of a clubhouse through the sanctuary for other people And i think also. I was raised in a very accepting household even though he didn't talk about things explicitly and i also. I wasn't ready to come out to my parents when i was teenager. But i was still very exposed to a larger church culture outside of my berry loving bubble from dot was not accepting tolerant entry. That was really confusing. And i think it was especially confusing. These also wrote on christian music and see and the those messages were sort of platform d- by artists that i just thought the world of is really hard to like. Watch -tudents like conferences early. They your back then. It wasn't like really livestream. You youtube videos after the fact and because i was living overseas i couldn't attend cornerstone. So watch all the conferences later or like whoever is on friends recreation best or whatever and you'd be exciting. They're like watching these conferencing so excited like these are my stars and then like someone would get up onstage in preaching this message next to link my idols about just just something that was against who i am. I knew who i was and that was really confusing and it also made me just second. Guess my parents. Even though i knew that they loved me. I was like well. Maybe they're just not saying it because they don't know that i'm gay but if they knew then that's they say the same things like this person was saying on stage so yeah. So that's that's right. Grew up and you know. God is built. This bird flu red. It has that relationship with faith and even with like the word christianity. What does that been like for you since. How's that changed since your kid yeah. It's changed pretty dramatically. I think most the change the most within the past two or three years. That's when i really started becoming comfortable like fully being myself in accepting myself. And as soon as i was able to stop putting on like costumes for the world and really just be who i have always known god created needs to be then started being able to pour over scripture in a new way and start the process of deconstructing just all the colonialism and the white supremacy that has become baked into christian culture in the united states in that was not available to me when i was so concerned about like what the world thought of me and if i was presenting in a type of way and now that i really i really feel like i'm my foundation are so solid in that. I'm really walking in. Who i am for the first time like able to be the same kid that i was on the playground just as an adult that i have been able to have this new divine experience because i'm allowing myself to ask questions and to have doubt and editor not forcing this true believer Expression on me. That isn't authentic. I'm not saying that. That is the case for other people but for me like i'm filled with doubt and i still come back to prayer on still come back to my bible but i wrestle with weird questions the time lake. I always make the person in communities like this feels like a call. I've always think none. I'm always like this is weird thing that we're doing like explained to alien and i think that's a hey and i think there's room for like humor in comfort an anger in phase and that so i think that you know i really have grown a lot like the person who was going to the mission trips in praying youth group and all this stuff i was never sleep resin. Some people today would have looked at that person. Be like that was a great christian. And i was the furthest from god i never been. Did you ever as your processing all this. some of. i don't know if you'd call trauma but it sounds like trauma as you're processing all this did it ever. Did you ever think like omega christianity decision for me. Maybe there is not a place for somebody who has these thoughts in his this way in the christian faith. Yeah i still think that sometimes It's it's really tricky. Because i don't have any memories outside of seeing a christian. And i definitely russell winds have i been programmed to believe this in a certain way i was never given an option to know any other type of way of belief and belonging so when i think of praying to god part of my construction has been like okay. You need to stop seeking god like the dude on a cloud. Let's start there and it is really difficult. Because i know that there's been so so excited stomach harm caused in the name of the same god that i pray to. And how do you reconcile that. I'm not sure i'm currently working through. It took it back to you one of these days. But we're i what i can tell you. Is that at the end of the day. Almost like i kind of draw my hands. And i just arrive at this point of light again. You know. that's what it is. I don't know how we got here. You know. I have a lot of questions about that. Doesn't make it easy. I don't want to be ignorant to hartman of use but at the end of the day. You know what. I'm saying chris for sleep. It's just me and you know. And so where do we go. Great cards and. I don't know why think enid understand me. Chips of fallen. Masai came cau- poland. Windy start when you play music. I started writing music. Probably like five or six in my head. Right little jingles and stuff like that and i've been writing music for a long time but i only started taking myself seriously as an artist probably three years ago and i've been putting out music for a while but i think the past three years was when i stopped telling my friends not to listen to it. I used to like put out music. I don't listen to it. It's not good silence. Whenever and. I think that i've been writing the past years grinding more than ever. I think it's no accident. That like as i sort of got comfortable like my gender expression just ensure i am that i was able to write in a in a way that i've never been able to right before with his motivation and inspiration. That was totally new. Age is always. Like i have something else i could explore. And and whether that's just like different structures on piano so curious to dive into this so i think the past three years has been really push myself as an artist to get better at the instruments that i already knew how to play. And also to hold myself accountable. I released all. I'm like my team. Select meeting those deadlines like setting this up. Aligning this release. You have to take yourself seriously as an artist for anything to be worthy someone else's time you have to invest in me and listen to whatever Out so yes. it's past. Three years has been definitely a turning point for me. You tell a lot of stories from your past childhood adolescent sounds like to me on this and one thing bed has been difficult in my life with my own writing. I think you do very well is talk about People who may hear this and hear things about your story. Their interactions with you. That maybe kind of that hurt you. Is that difficult to know that there are people who might hear this. Who who you care about to are maybe not portrayed in like a super flattering. You're open about how wounded you still feel from some of those interactions. Yeah that has not been easy. And i think that's the reason why i put jesus from texas of the demo i because i put a snippet of up on instagram story. And the friend a snippet. It just said. I'll spend the rest of my life sharing down the jesus from texas. He put in a crowd the only thing she could have heard. It was like new driving in the car listening to the new x. And we are not really not seeking and it is her. it's really hurtful. And she knows this and we know that it hurts and she messaged me and she was like oh like a new song coming out. And i messaged her back. And i was just like you know. Actually the least obvious part of science value. And we haven't spoken since. And i know that i liked to know that like we have said so many times how much we love each other and how much this hurts. And i've also sent a boundary of like. I haven't done anything to you. I've been a good friend to you and you can always call me. I am always my phone for you. But i am not going to like. I don't anything to apologize for in this regard so it has been hard as been very weird. I think mercifully since we're not really in touch. I don't know how it's gone and it's the same thing for for other people as well. I don't really know exactly. Is they know certain things are about them. But it's definitely it's vulnerable. I won't i tyler very as you have started to find some success. What are you seeing now for the few like. Are you going to keep releasing albums on the curse tonight tunes charts and see if you can get another number one or what do you think. Yeah i i definitely want you keep releasing music hoping it can release another song sometime this spring that i've been working on and i think i'm not saying that every single release of mine is going to be a christian project. I know that this one very much for me was a christian expression so i wanted to list it in a way that was true and i can see myself writing from place again because i do feel this is just. Were inspired right now like this. My heart is there a time when they're grappling with something else. And then that's what i'll write about. I might listed differently but for now Nobody gets to gatekeeper genre. And i'm exploring my christian faith and i'm deconstructing my christian faith and that belongs in christian contemporary music and i don't really care and just like it because if the not all music be for every person something to some people at work hard is subjective. Plan that was grace baldrige. You can find her similar ep. Preacher skit anywhere you listen to music all right. Stay tuned up next feedback is you're listening to goat girl. The song is anxiety feels. Hey if i was go girl. I'd probably have been okay. It's time for your feedback lasts well two weeks ago. I guess we got talking about. Our dogs My dog's name is charles. Barkley and Jamie's dogs names are marfa and landry very texan and we. We wanted to know. Y'alls favorite or y'all's creative dog names. You hit us up All of these actually we we didn't we didn't even Post this on the relevant podcasts. Twitter account these are all from the relevant magazine. Instagram post replies. Here's a few of our favorite dog. Names okay jess. Paul says this and you guys. I love this. Because i used to say i wanted to say my dog so he says when i was growing up my grandpa had a dog named what so someone asked him. What his dog's name was. They just have a really awkward conversation. Because it'd be like hey what's your what's your dog's name and then he also had pets named guests. So what's your dog's name. Yes and then he also had a dog named yes so they would say. What's your dog's name. Ask them that makes me a little a little. Who's on first. Yeah yeah exactly. I can show you the document and the very first business plan for relevant media group the magazine's name relevant magazines. First name was that magazine. Because i like the idea that people go. I really liked that magazine. What magazine that magazine are. You a happier said that you didn't go with that. I literally listen. I had relevant books relevant media group. We had the website that online dot com and that magazine dot com. It was all happening in about a year and a half after we launched the company. A friend of mine pulled me aside and said dude. You've gotta change the name to relevant. And i was like no. Oh yeah you're right. I do relevant. Didn't even dawn on me. I'd relevant books. And i should have really maxine anyway. I really liked that magazine. Yeah well all right. So carla not carly says our dog shelter. Our dog shelter name was chewy not considered making his official name chewy louis but instead on the news louis but his dad with with charlie chaplin. He's black and white after all and looks nothing like some other. Faves are napoleon bonaparte. Buster rhymes inch shimmy changa. Those those acute you best neymar dog. If i had a dog somebody said that their friends name was gone. So they got a golden retriever and they named goldie hawn which is nice. I like to think they intentionally bought. The golden retriever. Just to gather goldie hawn. Nfl gives her good good for them. All right or there's a lot more of that came from go. Check it out on the relevant magazine. Instagram post from two to tuesday's ago Okay it's time for this week. We we gotta talk to my old school social media. A lot of us had old school social media prior to two thousand nine Got us thinking about those. Those original social media handles. We all had Your aim miran. Instant messenger handles my space. Handles we wanna know your i. You know you remember it. We wanna know your first old school social media handle and if it references a lame early two thousands emo band the better. I was gonna say how many how many old school tooth and nail bands are about to get like shoutouts to hook lover. Ninety four yeah exactly hit us up on twitter at relevant podcast and also the rela magazine. Instagram post for this episode. We'll read our favorite week. Well before we wrap up. I mentioned it on briefly on last week's episode. Wanna make sure you all know about what we're doing with deeper walk. We launched our daily devotional series in. And i i would say in phases of we started posting daily devotional every morning about a month ago and then We started the deeper walk. Newsletter where you can sign up and get those. Get a devotional at the top of your inbox every morning. When you wake up. Which actually i really appreciate because roll over and grab your phone. Having that burst email be just a few minutes of meditation and spirits spiritual engagement. It's pretty awesome and now we've launched a deeper walk podcast now. This whole thing deeper walk is brought to you by our friends. At lumo an amazing organization They created a visual gospel Videos you can check out their youtube and all that but they are the ones who are helping present deeper walk so we have the daily post email and now the deeper walk. Podcasts depot podcasts every weekday it's the it's an audio version of the renton devotional. So if you're reader read it if you're somebody who loves to do a morning walk or you know when i have a five minute devotional on your car ride to work. Then maybe the podcast is for you. It's called deeper walk. It's available wherever you get your podcasts. Go check it out. It's really cool. And it's actually the first of maybe several new podcast. Relevant will be launching this year. Well thanks to gray spotters. For joining us you can check out the similar ep preacher skid wherever you get your music on wrap things up. I'm cameron strang. I'm jessica i'm jamie ivy. Dj derek minor was out your aim. Name name my my my name. Name was like dj. Some stupid i don't even remember but trying to be cool man. I was like i don't know. Dj dj fly or something like that. You know what. I'm saying like something really lame in two thousand. I love it all right. We'll see you on friday. Have a great weekend one. Thanks for listening to the relevant podcast. Check out our features interviews and news updates every day at relevant magazine dot com and make sure to follow relevant on facebook twitter and instagram for the latest for more great podcasts browse the shows on the relevant podcast network. You can find at our site and while you're there don't miss the all new era of relevant magazine a new issue releases every other monday at relevant magazine dot com kids. Who wants an up close. Look at the gallbladder relevant podcast network.

valentine grace baldrige jamie ivy jesse gary mogul derek rando candy jamie depression anxiety mtv Valentine cassie p mtv Mtv Jamie Teela tequila cameron leila tequila toledo tequila tyler tom terry thurman orlando
Abortion Gag Rule and Green Specialty Foods

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:29:45 hr | 1 year ago

Abortion Gag Rule and Green Specialty Foods

"From radio vermont it's the dave graham show on w._d. It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the the most you now. Here's your host dave. Graham remind us tuesday august twenty thousand in one thousand nine hundred of what have you with us this morning. I got a full show for you today. We're gonna be talking about <hes> a new trump administration gag rule related to abortion services in the first hour over the program <hes> two different perspectives on that one will be with the commissioner of the vermont health department that is dr mark levin in later on in this hour will be speaking with lucie laroche of planned parenthood in the second hour. We're going to have a complete change the topic or as we often do here dave graham show and we're gonna be talking about greening up vermont's specialty foods industry. My guests will include joel buli from joe's kitchen at screaming rich firm morgan hood from efficiency vermont it and <hes> celia racial from the vermont department of environmental conservation. They're going to be talking about trying to reduce the environmental footprint of vermont's specialty specialty foods industry so that'll be an interesting conversation. I'm sure wanted to start with a doctor mark levin. I believe he's on the line. <hes> this morning good morning commissioner turner good morning i wanted to check in with you about yesterday's <hes> twin announcements one from your department actually three announcements one from the trump administration administration. I guess i i don't know whether it was announced. Yesterday was the deadline to <hes> have have <hes> folks start observing this <hes> this gag rule in the and and and then in the <hes> in the health department your department issued a statement about this <hes> and the <hes> planned parenthood did as well plan very parent the planned parenthood. I should say is easy for me to say i guess is is <hes> saying that they will forgo federal funds so that they continued can continue can you <hes> with providing services in the and and more crucially in this case the information that they have been providing folks traditionally about where they might obtain abortion services if that's their decision and the health department is saying that <hes> from what i understand that the state will go ahead and and make up for the federal funding funding that will be lost here. I saw in one report. They were a couple of reports. I think it was around seven hundred fifty nine thousand dollars annuals right. You're very correct that eight hundred thousand dollars per year range and <hes> tell me a little bit about this <hes> this. This is actually a provision that i understand <hes> was passed <hes> when in two thousand eighteen to get sorta get ready for this yes the more work was done in march of two thousand nineteen uh-huh administrative rulemaking process in washington they were able to <hes> impact the title ten funding guidelines signs in the way that you've described where <hes> providers of <hes> family planning and reproductive health care would no longer be able to discuss also refer patients for abortion services so not you know be able to present it as part of the continuum of services available to two reminders specifically regarding their choices regarding reproductive health and what i wanted to really <hes> parse this <hes> this what this rule says is a little bit because <hes> my own understanding as i read more about it was clarified just this morning and it and it is a little confusing spots. It looks like the seven seven seven days actually had an interesting summation of this thing that they were reporting that new rules by the trump administration allow clinics accepting titled ten funds to talk it to patients about abortion but not to give women information or refer them to abortion providers is do they have that right that that is exactly what the rule <hes> states right now yes yeah and and you have to have that right and there are abundant the numbers of states that feel that they should not have that right and that's why this is litigation throughout the country. That's interesting yeah i mean i guess it was a good question. Although what i meant was the seven days have that correct. I mean it. It sounds like we're getting to a to a it's not a an outhouse one hundred percent gag rule right. I mean it's basically you can talk to patients about abortion as an option that you just can't tell them where they would go to get one. Is that the idea right so in some way you're still withholding. If you will obey the rule you're somewhat still withholding medical information from patients and <hes> and you're denying them the range of options available if you can't actually act on the counseling you provide and not really interferes with the whole doctor patient relationship and clinicians really <hes> very uncomfortable with that needless to say. It's a very challenging jingwei to <hes> try to practice and it becomes almost an unethical discussion if you're saying something but then can't do anything it's almost like screening for some horrible disease telling a person. They're going to have it but there's nothing i can do. <hes> why would you do that to somebody. <hes> so challenging thing and then vermont the additional point is that you would actually violate the new law that was just passed by the legislature nature and signed by the governor regarding <hes> abortion services and the full range of services that pregnant women are allowed to half half <hes> because basically says there's a fundamental right of every individual who becomes pregnant to choose to carry the term to give birth birth to a child or to have an abortion <hes> and it prohibits any interference with <hes> providing any services or information yeah. I'm just trying to think of an analogy here and it sort of seems as though let's say i go to my primary care doctor and like primary care doctor says day i think you have heart disease <hes> and <hes> <hes> you know there are various things we can do about heart disease. One of them say an angioplasty right <hes> but i can't give you the names of any cardiologists who might actually do this is that is that is that about where we are very similar exactly that that is kind of his are i mean i you know because i mean obviously <hes> the the <hes> the the the normal flow of events in medicine is if you need to go see a specialist or you need to have a specific procedure <hes> you find out uh-huh typically often from the primary care provider <hes> who is going to provide that that specialized procedure right. I mean that's just sort of the normal flow of a doctor actually yeah it's very hard to develop a rule that ethical that actually we limit what a health care practitioner can tell their patients now <hes> well actually. Let's bring a caller into the conversation. Guy from berlin is on the line good morning guy yes gentlemen. I suppose the real difference here. One one of them anyway is that an unborn baby is not a terrible disease and it's not heart disease dave and dr <hes> the other thing is why why in the world are rethinking about spending vermont taxpayers money that titled ten money. It's there you can. I can't imagine imagine doctor that we know little bit of effort. You couldn't find some vermont organization that can do cancer screening and dispense contraceptives and the other basically not terribly complex this you know this is not heart surgery. It's happening here. It's just surprises me that there's a quick default to yes. We need to plan parented. Okay yeah we need to provide these services but it doesn't have to be plan current and i i just it's hard to imagine and i gotta say the next time. The state complains about well. We don't have enough money for a certain program or we have after raise taxes for a certain. It's so important. I'm gonna be remembering. Actually we went out and spent a ton of money one hundred fifty nine thousand dollars. I don't you let me get you to weigh in here. I mean it. It seems as though what is really going on here from the state's perspective is a protection of a constitutional right sorta like what we do when we when we fund the defender general's office and public defenders around vermont want because people have a right to a fair trial right <hes> somewhat similar so basically you know the department of health is the recipient of the title tin grant funding and <hes> planned parenthood is the sub recipient. There's never been another sub recipient for years and years they have. I'm always in the only one who applies and in addition. If anyone knew were suddenly to apply and say we want to be the sub recipient they would not happy able to abide by the rule in vermont as i pointed out both from an ethics standpoint and from violation of the state law standpoint joint <hes> in addition to that <hes> we're very much concerned about the concept of health equity meaning. Everyone has the opportunity to have at the same services and the same level of health no matter what their income no matter what their insurance level etcetera entitled ten and funding is specifically designed for those in our society who are lower income or maybe under or uninsured and those people would be left with no opportunity for services <hes> if the state did not actually have these contingency funds waiting for guy is health equity in issue for you i mean is that an important goal here. You know commissioner. You can find another organization that can do these services. Of course these folks need these services. There's there's no question about that. But why in the world doesn't need to be prepared you know you could you could even if you had to throw a little bit of fashion senate money to for startup. I can't imagine all of your resources and your initiative in everything state of mind can't just find another planet the organization some who said yeah actually that's a good new revenue stream for us. We're pursue that the guy with that with that when you say throw a little incentive money money into into the mix with that cost more than the current seven hundred fifty nine thousand we're talking about. Well hold on what you're looking at. Basically you're you're kissing off off eight hundred grand or whatever federal money and you're saying now. Let's go spend eight hundred of vermont taxpayer money so if if you're you're asking me scheduled taxpayer winning two hundred grand vermont money to leverage eight hundred grand well that'd be a heck of a lot better her then spending all of that completely making that money from my taxpayer money on organization that a lot of people are saying you know other people people can do cancer screenings other people can do i just have it is not rocket science all right guy. I gotta go but thanks for the call. I appreciate it. I'd doctor levin. I i wanna check in with you actually about one thing one aspect of this which interests me and that is when when we you know the the picture we were describing as in a in a healthcare setting with somebody meeting with a clinician and the clinician is is basically league <hes> either either providing information or not providing information about where you might go. Oh i pacific procedure in the case of planned parenthood planned parenthood actually performs abortions correct some yes they do sometimes but the the issue here is not the performing of them if the issue of being able to refer a patient for the procedure right and and so <hes> just to just to be clear so i understand that when we're talking about referral <hes> sometimes we will be i mean effectively down the hall right yeah okay and and it the <hes> i mean guys guys point seems to be he is he's a <hes> wondering why the state should spend money when we do have money available from the federal government only if we are willing to follow the federal rules i guess <hes> and i i mean i think i understand wh from your perspective why <hes> the state of feeling like it can't do that <hes> in that is essentially this this issue that vermont his essentially following a different standard here in its own state law exactly and the money goes through to planned parenthood and who had to provide these services because of course these are <hes> for monitor's of lower income or uninsured reminders but any other other organization that as he puts it might step in to <hes> provide the services you would still have to provide the same level of <hes> reimbursement for them <hes> and they would still be a bit tied up in the fact that they could not have to provide the full array of services uh-huh and that they would be in violation of vermont law so the is so. Let's say it's a replacement clinic will call it right not planned parenthood but it would be some other organization which perhaps <hes> <hes> agreed with the trump administration's position on abortion and <hes> <hes> said that we're not going to refer people before that procedure <hes> and they were trying to set up as as the <hes> otherwise provider of hell of reproductive healthcare to lower income for maters <hes> that that picture doesn't work because what because of the reasons i said yeah mm-hmm okay. I mean i i. I think our caller should understand that. This isn't like a decision that was made hastily. This was not a decision. That was a one person person top down decision. This was made across the board with the department of health. The agency of human services legislature the governor are abundant vermont healthcare organizations and <hes> national and vermont professional organisations health professional organizations organizations so is it. Do you think there's actually more more input country. All of these are coming out uniformly opposed to the rule. Ooh <hes> and there are not a few states. There are many states who are doing just what vermont has not yeah. It's actually <hes> i'm looking the list here. Hawaii illinois new york oregon washington massachusetts and maryland <hes> looks like all pretty blue states <hes> as politics go but <hes> you're i mean my would i be fair and if i were to say that there's you know and i think back to the public. Hearings zigic just happened this past spring. In connection with each fifty-seven <hes> remind is actually had quite a bit of public discussion about <hes> reproductive rates in the last <hes> and we'll continue now this this current debate over they'll continue over <hes> proposed constitutional amendment <hes>. There's been quite with a public input. It seems on <hes> you know in the in connection with h fifty seven which of course was the law which <hes> actually codifies the right to an abortion in <hes> in vermont state law law <hes> and <hes> you know the governor now is running a couple times were office <hes> <hes> taking having a pro choice stance be part of his platform and been elected both times <hes> has there been as much public input in participation at the federal level in on this trump administration rule to your knowledge. I don't believe so no and and i think you know your comments about for mont or very correct <hes> and you should recognize also that when that legislation was passed which was just a few months ago <hes> you know our legislature represents our citizens and <hes> it was an overwhelming vote in favor of the legislation and <hes> dr lene. I just want to ask you sort of perspective. <hes> the question here which is <hes> obviously seven hundred fifty nine thousand dollars estimated cost to the state to to replace the federal funds. It'll be lost due to the state's decision. I can't follow the <hes> the federal rules and that's on an annualized basis correct yeah and i mean that will be july alive first of this year through june thirtieth of two thousand twenty okay and do you know roughly how many patients are affected and remind me how many actual people about ten thousand okay and so this is basically again ten thousand patients who would be perhaps <hes> involved in a conversation about <hes> do i <hes> you know what are my options. And where would i go to exercise <hes> one of them which is in in this case abortion. <hes> you know you get you get. You get told essentially here's where you would go. Here's how you would set up an appointment to do that and that sort of thing correct correct exactly and when when you imagine a situation where a healthcare provider is told you can't tell your patient. Here's where you would go. Here's how to set up an appointment and that sort of thing <hes> i mean again i'm just trying to do is to my own experience the healthcare system oftentimes <hes> the you know if a doctor says you need to see a specialist about x. you end up actually going out to the as you exit in sort of the is not really. There's a reception area. You come in you. Check in and then you go. Check out from your from your p._c._p. Appointment your primary care appointment <hes> and the and it's at checkout they tell you usually going to set up an appointment with dr specialist over here and <hes> and you're going to get this particular kind of care that you're you you just discussed with your primary care doctor and <hes> in that and that whole kind of conversation doesn't happen in this in this scenario correct correct and everything leading up to it that happened within the privacy of the examination room was distorted <hes> and care your providers couldn't actually give care according to their own medical training and their judgment as well as their professional and ethical obligations. That's why oh you know this whole idea of a gag rule. <hes> we call it that policy but gag rules are bad policy <hes> and they're you know they're almost led. I just waiting the practice of medicine in a very negative way that doesn't allow healthcare professionals to utilize the training and judgement that they have <hes> and the way that best benefits. They're patient. You know you might recall in florida number of years ago. There was a gag rule about talking about firearms during during a <hes> a physical exam traditional medical visit <hes> and it wasn't that the clinician was going to talk about taking away okay somebody's second amendment rights. The clinician was gonna talk about issues of firearm safety and safe storage and making sure if there were children in the house that they didn't have access to thanks <hes> commonsense things that in public health and in healthcare we regard as part of our responsibility <hes> to patients <hes> and that a rule was essentially overturned in the courts <hes> because it was very challenging to tell clinicians what they can and can't talk about in the confidential environment of a healthcare setting well and if you want another example of that might come into play it seems as though it would be if you have a <hes> situation where the you ask a patient. If there's any any chance of cell harm the patient comes in presenting with depression and he you say to the patient is are you thinking about harming yourself right and then it seems like a logical follow on question there would be. Do you have firearms in house. You just i mean wouldn't it there myrow around. I know you're a hundred percent right. <hes> unfortunately you know many people have the misconception that homicides outnumber suicides regarding writing firearms but in vermont and elsewhere <hes> firearms responsible for far more suicides than they aren't homicide yeah yeah you're right that it <hes> the demographic for the highest risk for suicide are older man and older man generally may have guns laying around their house so you couldn't have a conversation with them about that and about storing them safely <hes> then you could be <hes> shirking responsibility and trying to to help them <hes> and they're up depression. There's a there's a lot of talk especially from the republican party about limiting government regulation and so on. Are you surprised that they they wanna get so off. So finally regulatory today would describe what a doctor can say to a patient in a doctor's office well. This is when sort of hot button issues. Take take over so i. I guess i can't be surprised that these things happen by any means <hes> i do want people to know that in our letter to the office of population population affairs of the department of health and human services in washington you know we provided all of the information we've been talking about in terms of why we could not <hes> <hes> continue to <hes> have the title ten <hes> funding but we left the door open obviously for conversation and <hes> <hes> we were talking with you know the program officers there <hes> they they will have to respond to our ladder for sure and we ended the letter saying that we hope our historical partnership being our department and h._h._s. <hes> would return to former level doctor. I got to leave. Are there but i thank you very much for joining me this morning interesting conversation thank you can thank you day bye bye. Okay go to a break. I wish i had a dollar for every compliment and i get about our selection upstairs. At the warren store. The season's collection boasts country casual clothing for men and women dresses for summer weddings and events they be clothing from sue chano suit pants and fairtrade jewelry from around the world. I'm excited about a new line of pottery from londonderry vermont also illuminated paper stars for outdoor fun. It's a great day trip to warn village. Come for lunch on the deck and upstairs for some unique retail therapy fund funky and friendly and almost world famous. It's the dave eight gram show on t._v. And we are back for the second half hour to this tuesday morning program of the day graham show and i wanted to <hes> bringing my next guest i lucy larouche is with planned parenthood of northern new england and <hes> lucy brassy impressed me refresh me on your title there at at that organization sure end device president of vermont public affairs parliamentarians had no the new england got it okay <hes> and obviously your your organization's name has been talked about quite a bit <hes> in the news in the last twenty four hours or so stated reminding issuing that statement yesterday that i think you saw and <hes> <hes> bring us up to date where where do things stand from your from the organization's perspective well we are in vermont incredibly grateful to the state of vermont the legislature the governor of vermont attorney general as well as all of our healthcare partners across the state <hes> the vermont hospitals hospitals and health care systems by state primary care insurance companies blue cross blue shield and b._t. <hes> i won't listen all but <hes> the entire virtually usually the entire healthcare community as well and <hes> the of course the vermont department of health they everyone has really been a champion in an ally and with us as we have been battling trump gag rule. This is a rule that the trump administration recently put into replace that would bar and he healthcare provider from referring a patient for abortion and you know we just i feel like this is really wrong and the healthcare community sees it as a clear violation of medical ethics and that's why we had to withdraw from the program and <hes> <music> i was talking with dr mark levin the health commissioner in the first half hour of the program this morning and he was saying that <hes> eight hundred thousand dollars seven days quarter to figure of seven hundred fifty nine thousand dollars. The state is essentially back filling here. That federal federal money goes away in this eighty saying okay well. We'll step up and we will pay that and and and <hes> basically <hes> try to restore or or continue with the status quo is that is that do i have that right yeah. Yeah that's right. I'm the <hes> the vermont department of health. The governor of vermont legislature have been incredible supporters and fi. You know it's it's really gratifying to just t- that they <hes> they appreciate the value that this at the services that we provide through this funding <hes> are important server monitor's on more than eleven thousand vermont or served by the child ken program and these really are essential public health <hes> program uh-huh for for low income vulnerable people cancer screening and testing for s g is and contraception and contraception reception counseling healthcare now you're <hes> you represent a planned parenthood of northern new england and when folks think about northern new england they usually lump in maine and new hampshire does does <hes> p. p. n. and the actually extending into both of those other states yeah yeah our organization. It's a it's a three state affiliate organization. We have twenty one health centers across the three states and <hes> new hampshire or is there is a governor's new veto to budget in new hampshire that included also some backfill funding for titletown titletown turn program that is still in the air as the beach budget is getting negotiated with <hes> lawmakers there did the did the governor the governor sununu. I haven't really followed this story in new hampshire. <hes> <hes> did the governor site that that funding that the state wanted to backfill or the legislature that you wanted to backfill <hes> <hes> as a reason to veto the budget no this fact finding i think had nothing to do with the beach the the veto had to do with <hes> <hes> i some differences that the lawmakers the legislature had with the governor around raising taxes and so that is why the budget was vetoed. I don't think nurse nunu will <hes> is looking at the family planning dollars <hes> for for to supplement tour to supplant titled ten dollars at wasn't issue in new hampshire and open <hes> between the budget but it's <hes> <hes> you know unfortunately kind of now being held hostage along with lots of other things in the budget. I'm sure now i mean i'm wondering i it seems ages. Though this this strategy of trying to limit information passed from da from provider to patient in a in a healthcare setting <hes> he's just one of the one of the thousand cuts that <hes> it seems as though there may be a strategy here of death by thousand cuts as the old cliches <hes> <hes> in terms of access to abortion services <hes> resent the way you read the situation here well. I don't even see it as a smoke. I i see it as an an all-out frontal attack against planned parenthood and against low income people who <hes> who are trying to get healthcare services and it's <hes> it's a political ideological attack and unfortunately low income people are the ones who suffer the <hes>. I mean i. I guess guess what i meant is really just <hes>. If you can't ban abortion outright which a lot of folks would like some folks would like to do <hes> you you take this other strategy here where you try to say <hes> well okay abortion banned outright but you just can't talk about it. If you want federal funding yeah i mean i think it's worth repeating i. I know i've said this many times but i think it's really important for your listeners to know oh that federal funding cannot be used for abortion services title ten title ten dollars or never used for actual abortion services are used for other family planning services and so this gag rule yea. I think you're right. I think they're just looking for a way at getting at getting it planned parenthood or maybe abortion services in general through <hes> through this gag rule. It seems counterintuitive though to me because it's it's the very the result of this is just going to this will result in more nationally known in vermont but nationally this gag rule will result in more unplanned and unwanted pregnancies because it low income people will start to lose access s. two basic health care and contraception and it's that seems really counter to what they say they want to do with the opposition is saying that they want to reduce abortion what this policy will do in fact is increase the increase abortion increase unwanted. I take pregnancy and ultimately lead to more abortions in my view well. I'm trying to follow the logical train there in just so that <hes> both i understand. I think maybe our listeners understand better. My initial impression of this was was that basically the patient comes into to planned parenthood clinic as a healthcare the care provider and the planned parenthood clinic the patient has questions about <hes> you know a wide variety of of <hes> of things the under this rule the health provider better at planned parenthood cannot i i mean i i guess the way i read about in seven days is that you can actually talk about abortion. Maybe in in the kind kind of theoretical aspect of it or something but you can't actually say and and by the way here's how you would make an appointment chain on yeah you make an appointment if you wanna get if you want to have have an abortion right yeah it's kind of splitting hairs there but yeah there's some nuance in law okay so but but you mentioned that that that this could cost access sister contraception and and other things that might actually prevent additional avoid abortions and walk me through that again why why would that be the result here not prevented additional channel abortions. I don't think well i mean it. May i think it could either result in more unwanted children. Being born unwanted pregnancies that are being carried to term mm-hmm or it could result in more abortions because this is essentially what this happen what happens with this is. It's an attack on access to contraception. This has gone way. <music> beyond abortion is about access to contraception. That is the main the main thing that these dollars pay for is contraception so we're you're taking away the ability to access these funds in order to access contraception for low income people the result will be more more low low income people who don't have access to contraception in addition to other in addition to sexually transmitted sexually transmitted disease infection in screening and treatment and cancer screenings <hes> the the but the countries that contraception is the biggest part of this program so people people who don't have access to contraception and we'll end up with unwanted pregnancies. Now what happens with those unwanted pregnancies is is either <hes> more children being being birth to pregnancy is being taken to term or people. Oh who become desperate and with an unwanted pregnancy and resort to maybe extreme means <hes> beg borrow instill i still access the funds and the ability to access an abortion so really the when we talk about this cut off federal funds vermont vermont didn't step up basically planned parenthood would have lost eight hundred thousand dollars roughly seven hundred fifty nine of the number seven seven days has <hes> the <hes> which is significant money and as you put it that money is mainly used right now to pay for contraception and and other non abortion services at planned parenthood crop <hes> and therefore without those services in place i mean i guess you know one way to study this at a couple of years or whatever would be to see if states which actually knuckled under and did not backfill from their own budgets sent which i look look like so so far majority of states the the <hes> the abortion rates there would be would be expected to go up that your prediction yeah yeah it is is i think that this is going to have a counter effect to from for what <hes> what people want the policymakers who are who are we're pushing this trump and pence administration like what we know is that people <hes> keep people who with when when someone is faced with an unwanted pregnancy they will they will they will figure it out they will go to <hes> great lengths find the money to to to address it if they really feel like they need to that that they're not in a position to. She carry a pregnancy to term for health reasons for economic reasons for personal reasons whenever they are a bad relationship etc <hes> regardless if someone feels really certain that they don't want to carry a pregnancy to term we have seen from national data that people figured out they try to find a way to access an abortion even a you know even if they don't have access to health insurance so i mean just about the bottom line here is at somebody who supports this policy from the trump administration. <hes> maybe essentially you promoting more abortions. It sounds yeah yeah yeah. I absolutely think so yeah. I think that that is <hes> that could absolutely be a result of this of this this policy ironically which is why we think this is so dangerous i i guess ethical aw i mean i i yes and and it's also just i dunno dumb. If you're if you go if you really hate abortion your goal ah is to reduce the number of abortions in the world. We don't want it. We don't want abortion so let's take away birth control and see what happened like can woke yeah. You think i don't know i i was really <hes> kind of struck by the looks like a lot of unanimity among vermont healthcare off care providers <hes> supporting planned parenthood's position on this title <hes> titled ten funding and <hes> <hes> i mean you it seems as though you have allies everybody from the from the by state primary care association the raw medical society to monetization of hospitals and the health systems and the list goes on first of all. I'm always struck by manner. A lot of protesters yeah so <hes> is is there any organized opposition to speak of in vermont. You know are there. Any health groups that are there are no healthcare organizations who are in opposition to our position on the title ten gag rule. We have nothing but support. In the healthcare community eighty there are of course <hes> people who are opposed to abortion categorically who <hes> may support the rule for those reasons spy <hes> to my knowledge. I am unaware of single healthcare organization in the state of vermont who thinks that the guy who is a good idea opposed hosed categorically you mentioned <hes> but is established before the break. This change might actually promote more abortions in the end ironically yeah. That's that's the the thing that's just crazy. Making is that that makes the toes teens <hes> so nonsensical. Let's get let's get a caller on line d- from ducks breeze i d- <hes> i just wondered if the this gag rule <hes> included included contraception and i didn't need it did but he does not here right contraception. It's still an okay thing to talk about under this rule and i d i think he may be going to that question because you heard us mention contraception and how this could limit access says to contraception and adviser stan would lucy saying correctly lucy correct me if i'm wrong but i but i i think it's because if you cut if you cut funding for for planned parenthood planned parenthood is less able to provide services including concert contraception contraception services to its lowest lower income patients. That's that's where so folks. Don't have access to contraception to the same degree they had before the rule took effect. Now folks are are more likely league in this theory to get pregnant and <hes> and that's that's the result so <hes> am i understanding that correctly lucy yeah <hes> yeah that's right so essentially the title ten program right now funds contraceptive counseling and other healthcare services non abortion healthcare services by implementing a gag rule and really forces <hes> abortion care providers out of the program that we really we have no choice. The the medical community is unanimous on this that it is a clear violation of standards of care and medical ethics so it it is <hes> it goes caught completely contrary to the practice of medicine to do this so if forces us out of the program and that means means less dollars going to contraceptive care contraceptive contraception in general in counseling for low income people and <hes> i guess just so we're we're really really clear on on what the situation is. Then the <hes> the federal government already bans any of its dollars going directly for abortion services cry and and so we're really i mean we're kind of beyond that layer of the cake so to speak and <hes> <hes> and and so i mean is that it is d- are you still there. No okay that's fine. I mean i think these question kind of goes to a possible. <hes> i mean just it just prompted me to want to clarify that that that federal funding for abortion would directly was cut off longtime ago <hes> this is a case where if you are a health service provider that provides abortions <hes> in the eyes of some. You're still bad and you deserve to have your your funding cut completely for anything and <hes> but we're talking about here. A further funding cut might just be a case of biting off the nose despite the face. I think the phrase raise because <hes> you end up with possibly more abortions i mean it's just as lucy put crazy making right yeah yeah <hes> <hes> the title ten programs are four million <hes> low income women nationwide and the other. I think the other misconception about the program people think enclo- well just give the money to somebody some other healthcare provider and they'll provide the contraceptive services and so on to their patients the problem mince as you as you so astutely pointed out dave be the healthcare community not just in vermont but but nationally it's completely <hes> unified on the fact that this gag rule is a true violation of medical ethics and there's there's this whole capacity issue about. You know maybe healthcare. Maybe they after each caesar. Somebody can do this work first of all they can't. There's that layer and then the second layer is that even if they could take the patience it's a lot of it's a huge patient load. That people can't take like no other health. They don't have capacity capacity in their system so healthy <hes> evacuate. She's for example. The primary care federally funded primary care <hes> clinics in the state health centers in yeah. There's that layer and then there's this the second layer of even if they did have the capacity in their system they couldn't take take the money either for the same reason that we're rejecting the fun because it's a clear violation of standards of care and medical ethics well and it puts the government cameron in the exam room. I mean basically if you're a political party that talks about reducing regulation and reducing the size of government etc as a general rule <hes> boy. Hey this runs counter to that too. Doesn't it absolutely absolutely does it's chilling. I mean magin that you're imagine it is like having you know so it is like having a politician in the exam room with you saying telling looking over the doctor shoulder and looking at your chart you know and and reaching over and making the mucks on it. It's just <hes> it's unthinkable like who's going to tolerate that. I don't know it's a mystery to me so i thanks we'll have to leave it at that for this morning. Lucy russia vice president for a lot planned parenthood of northern new england. Thank you so much for joining me this morning <hes> having leading e._t._a. Favor unity and we were at the top of the hour here on the dave ramsey show. There is a caller waiting here <hes> i if you call back after little after ten i might try to squeeze you in somewhere jim but i just didn't <hes> didn't have time to get the un this <hes> little period of time so we're going to take a brief break for some c._b._s. News top of the hour sorry bobby back with one of our c- conversation to talk media news afterward and then <hes> talk about greening up the specialty foods industry vermont in the second hour of the program. Stay with us folks. I wish i had a dollar for every compliment went. I get about our selection upstairs at the warren store. The season's collection boasts country casual clothing for men and women dresses for summer weddings and events baby clothing from sue chano no in doodle pants and fairtrade jewelry from around the world. I'm excited about a new line of pottery from londonderry vermont also illuminated paper stars for outdoor fun. It's it's a great day trip to warren village comfort lunch on the deck upstairs for some unique retail therapy fund funky and friendly and almost world famous. It's the dave ramsey show w._d. F._m. and a._m. And we are back continuing into our second hour of today's program and and we were going to be talking to one of our correspondents from talk media news shortly i do believe i think tom terry is going to be joining us this morning. And <hes> he always has has the <hes> kind of a special flavored is presentation talks a lot about military and foreign policy. Even those are his specialties on the talk media news team and expect dealer. He's going to have some actually economics. Apparently he is going to tell us that. Most of the indicators indicators out there point strongly to coming recession president trump says that is not the case and so we will be interested to find out what demonstra squeak areas hearing seeing about that out there another topic. We're going to be talking about with. Tom is on the the gun debate. President trump goes dark on gun control after pledging background checks like we've never seen before and mr suite eerie asks zany one surprised by that so he's <hes> he's vim and vigor going on this morning apparently and <hes> i bet you but you were going to get some right now. Good morning tom excretory from talk me news. Thanks for joining me. You're welcome good morning. Hey and we really appreciate your participation by the way in the in the day graham show i ah the insights you guys you bob dane the the rest of the team members. They are talk meeting. These provide really add something here and it's a good thing. Let's let's let's go through some of your stories. They wanna you suggested this morning and you're very very kind of samya email. Sorta gave me a heads up about what we ought to focus on and real helpful <hes> start off with the recession. All you say here almost all indicators strongly point to he coming recession. President trump says no fake news again and thus the u._s. Government is taking no steps to buffer or weather such an economic hit <hes>. What do you tell me more about this. What is going on out there. Why do you see now. I i think i i think the fact that trump ministration you know they floated the idea in washington post story they folded idea fact cut and then it was denounced by the white lighthouses fake news but i don't believe it's news trouble. Loons often floated media regardless if the president who's a democrat or republican or donald donald trump so you know i think that the they're floating the idea of attacks guys way to kind of keep the recession at bay. Here's the thing about a recession in seventy to eighty eighty percent of the economist. Economist thinks that we're headed to one. You're almost always headed to one especially when you've had huge economic growth like we had some <hes> some sectors so at some point that's good a co-op say bad that happens in a capitalist economy and it's it's the greed of the recession session and the length of the recession that's critical but no one wants to have a recession <hes> especially going into an election year and the there'll be a great effort they make sure it's not called that if there's an economic slowdown for political reasons but look because a lot of sectors of the economy that aren't doing that great despite <hes> <hes> the proclamations from the white house and and the fed president trump is always wore the fed he's always at war with someone and and he's picking on the fed and and blaming them for any economic problems when reality they've done what they've done well over the years a lot of sectors of the economy that aren't doing that great. There are a lot of people so that konami that are that are really struggling. I mean folks in the lower and middle income brackets are are not feeling boom that that we keep hearing about and <hes> you know whether it's the stock market or whether it's <hes> you know certain income growth we see in in the very top brackets <hes> just just isn't isn't <hes> isn't trickling down his not and here's one of the big mis- misleading numbers unemployment statistics <hes> so people were considered implored but we don't get that number anymore about being under employed when you have to work two or three jobs to pay your rent and have your basic bills of your monthly bills paid eight for <hes> that is not robust full employment okay when you have jobs doesn't don't have benefits with this is not me on a rampage for anything. It's just me stating a pragmatic fact yeah yeah that people show up in employment roles as being quote unquote employed but as you point out the the lower and middle income groups are struggling because they don't have the ease of going home at night and saying. I don't have to work until tomorrow morning and everything's fine here yeah. No it's true i i i know that story <hes> and the <hes> the i mean i think one of the things that also is really striking. Here is the degree to which the economy has been goose somewhat by by the tax cuts that came came about a year and a half ago but now we look at the numbers and it looks like we have <hes> in the last i saw we gotta check a week or two ago. Two point two trillion dollars added to the federal debt yeah in just the first couple years of trump's presidency and oftentimes you add to the federal debt during times when you're already experiencing experiencing an economic downturn so for instance the president obama did that. It was like three point four billion trillion dollars that were added to the federal federal in the first couple of years of the obama presidency. Excuse my interruption day but today when president obama became president that was true recession it was the bush years that banks and everything like that so there was a lot different circumstance that was the was the worst downturn since the great depression right and so you you expect the government to step in and try to shore up the economy and limit the impacts of what otherwise could have been a real disastrous crash for the united states and the and the western world probably in that two thousand ten timeframe two thousand by the way i. I wish nobody went to jail for that bright. That's still the case isn't it think about iceland and they had a similar crash of their banks and bad bad decisions in those folks folks went to jail. Yeah well there you go. That's i mean so. I guess the deficit spending occurred in the early years of the obama administration. The station was a more traditional period of deficit spending by the government in response to a serious <hes> really heavy duty economic downturn this time we've had this deficit spending and as the president is saying the economy's booming like never before moving in some sectors as you point out the government's gonna spend money now to help farmers who have been hurt by tariffs person and trump impose okay so that money is covering up an economic decision it adds to the deficit. It's a political strategy so those mid west farmers and others who have been adversely impacted by the tariffs mo- abandoned president trump yeah so that's that adds to the deficit. That's not normal economic. You know that's not normal economic behaviour. I yeah so well okay. Let's let's go onto the gun debate. <hes> <hes> the line here says president trump goes goes dark on gun control after pledging background background checks and like we've never seen before. I don't think we could on president trump to keep his word on almost anything he vacillates from week to week. You know early on administration. It was whoever has his ear last kinda gets their policies spoken about or tweeted about it came out pretty strong for background checks after the latest ron shooting and now he's sort sorta softening on that saying well. It's up to congress to do whatever they wanna do and we'll see what they do. <hes> so you know. I don't think that the white house is going to be strong on any kind of conversation and discussion movement on any possible adjustments the current gun laws you know the term gun laws broadly including background contracts and stuff like that yeah and and the the what is it the red flag warning kind of thing and i mean it does it does. It's almost seem as if somebody on the n._r._a. Side of this debate kind of got to the president in recent days because it's it is like night and day isn't it. It is like a day. I don't know who got to or or or someone just if they're not there are other other groups out there you know that lobby against against changes in in gun laws and i hate that term but it's the only one we sort of have it euphemistically covers all these areas <hes> so there's not <hes> ah despite polls that show public opinion strongly supportive adjustments to gun laws there are groups that are dug in don't wanna see any movement because they think any movement. We're all lead to more movement down the road. <hes> in which you know is really not the case ever especially now with the divided government. You're not gonna see a stampede into toward any any kind of overwhelmingly restrictive gun legislation <hes> stuff you talked about background checks red flag warnings <hes> those are designed to to <hes> to make sure certain individuals don't have the ability to purchase firearms not taking any firearms off the market and it's not restricting directing the sale of available firearms to the majority of americans there. I'm not minimizing. These changes are important changes but that's not a stampede to you. Know tighter gun on restrictions in this country is it certainly wouldn't be <hes> a complete sea change. It's maybe maybe a little more than nibbling around the edges. I'm trying to come up with the right metaphor here. I don't know but the right. I think i think what it is. I attributed to <hes> you know. I like an to the fact that <hes> you're not going to solve the garden. The problem gun crises however you want to call it in this country through legislation overnight and you know i think you but you you focus sean. This is a problem and i'm going to go back to a similar challenge but obviously different it drunk driving. You know that was a big issue. A lot of lives were lost austin. People were injured because it drunk. Driving problem is significantly less of a problem today because of steps taken over the years. It wasn't solved all at once but thoughtful steps were taken can. Was there any anybody out there. Lobbying is powerfully for drunk four drunk driving as we lobbying for access access to firearms. I don't think we call that necessarily but <hes> the idea of of chip-making change to status quo. Yeah was not that as easy as you would think. We look back on it now. I think that makes it a lot of sense to do all these things you know she felt requirements and this and that and that they all added to it but nobody was doing that and idea of getting people on board and recognizing the public health danger problem right is what convinced those in elected offices to to cooperate into to actively participate debate as opposed to not taking steps in his era and it became a national issue solve by taking steps and that's the point of say no. It's not the same. That's why i hate use it because there's nothing quite like the gun issue in this country that you have an equivalent comparison drunken driving. We've got a hand if the mad all right man mothers against drunk driving organization and perhaps maybe that's what we need today but you know parents organizations that have sprung up after i you know maybe we need called mothers against guns and ammo or maga wait. That's already used sorry okay. Somebody took that already. Hey terry. I thank you very much and good talk with you here. I want to introduce a a trio of guests to talk about a very interesting topic. I think we're going to be speaking about the <hes> green specialty foods cohort. It's an it's. An effort in vermont to essentially green up are especially foods industries. There's a lot of great tasty foods made here in the state of all sorts of everything from lake champlain chocolates rocklets to <hes> to soups and salsas and you name it beers and on it goes and and there's a push on now to try to make sure that the packaging and other elements that go into the manufacturing of these all these different products are are are done in the environmentally friendliest way possible and some the folks involved in that. I've got three folks with me this morning. Actually who are working on in this effort one is morgan hood senior customer engagement specialist with efficiency remind more. Thanks for coming in this morning. Thank you for having me and i'll also celia. Retial is in the environmental assistance office of the department of environmental conservation association with the state of vermont and celia. Thanks for coming in this morning. Appreciate it and job you lease on the phone. He's with joe's goes kitchen at screaming. Ridge farm and you may recognize his name from that business name from various products you could find. I know that the hunger mountain co op carries is this stuff because i bought joe's soups there before and joe. Thanks for joining the programs mornings while i hope you enjoyed the soups and thank you for having me delicious you make hey good stuff and i thank you and actually live in. Let me <hes> let me start with you and and ask you to identify some some of the other products that you have pointed rains these days right all we're into all kinds of stuff. We're we're really trying to pull back and focus on the soups. We do about thirty thirty five to forty different soup. Some of them are seasonal and dan. We've got a pop-up clam shack on <hes>. We've actually out one on saturday laugh so were doing lobster. Rolls plan steamers and we're looking into macaroni and cheese. We make all the teen gene for skinny pancakes. Wow yeah now living came to us a few years ago and was like here's our proprietary terry chicken pot pie filling to make this for us because we can't keep up with kind of branched into a few other things well i it's cool you're able to expand like that and actually help other businesses in our area with their product products roddick's and procedures and so on. That's a cool thing out there. I'm sure so people must appreciate here's joe truckload of putin for the energy. That's an that's alright. Hey talk about synergy. We've got some synergy apparently going on between joe's joe's <hes> screaming ridge farm and by the way we're screaming ridge farm. Where are you located. We are it's kind of. I got lucky i you you know our <hes>. Our current kitchen is right across the street. From <hes> hunger. Bob mcculloch were on the other side of the tracks and i know that's a cliche i shea but <hes> and they're on the other side of the tracks from you and the farm is about three three miles from here at the ten minute drive got it okay. That's that's excellent <hes> and joe beaulieu. I was mentioning synergy in your synergy that we're going to talk about a little with this morning. I think a lot this morning maybe is with efficiency vermont and who is represented by morgan hood this morning and the state department of environmental conservation's environmental assistance office represented by celia racial and <hes> this <hes> green specialty foods <hes> cohort <hes> <hes> maybe i'll start with <hes> with celia and ask you to just tell us tell our listeners a little bit about what the <hes> what this is all about and <hes> how oh how works how long it's been going on that sort of thing yeah so the the simplest way to put to put it. This cohort is about increasing the environmental sustainability sustainability of vermont businesses on it's actually part of a larger initiative we have working with <hes> businesses in the food and beverage sector in vermont which we know is really critical of our economy here and really emblematic of some of the best things that vermont does <hes> so we actually also have cohorts in <hes> breen and also in <hes> dairy products <hes> in all of these are really recognizing that by working with businesses who who want to do better and <hes> and and targeting a small small group of leaders within those specific sectors to help them voluntarily improve environmental performance they can help spread the message to others to to their peers in that sector the other other makers of of of soups <hes> or or chocolates or beer or cheese <hes> and they can really spread best practices and and teach each other. They're not gonna the share recipes but they're going to share best practices that help improve the impacts to the environment and morgan hood of efficiency vermont and wonder if you can tell us a little bit. I mean i i'm. I'm guessing that one element of trying to improve business environmental footprint is maybe <hes> to save on energy and have you been able to help some of these specialty food food businesses in that regard the specialty foods cohort is just kicking off so i can't tell her accomplishments yet we piloted this cohort model with brewers last year ear and we were definitely able to help them save some energy there <hes> one of our kickoff event for each of the cohorts we collaborate on is is an energy sort of a cayenne light and energy treasure hunter walk through where we invite the other businesses who are cohort members to explore explore one of the facilities and hunt down energy saving opportunities and then we are efficiency vermont will lead groups around <hes> a facility and focused on specific technologies identify where energy can be saved with the business leaders in the cohort and report out on this plan of action. These are the low cost. No cost things you can do to save energy. These are the things that might be a bigger investment <hes> and more or of a time sink that you want to plan for in the future so it's a it's a years long process but the plan we lay in place through this cohort engagement and if i can ask just so one of the things that we like about the cohorts and and the assistant sofit issues partnering with efficiency vermont to bring that expertise critise on energy but we're actually targeting sustainability more broadly so sometimes people will just think about energy <hes> or they might just think about waist or water but we're trying to kind of cover. Thanks pretty comprehensively so in fact all of the businesses that participate in these cohorts have committed over the course of a year to work on reducing energy use reducing water use <hes> reducing their generation of of waste food waste as well as recycling trash and also <hes> cutting down on their wastewater generation so then looking at things broadly rodley and then with tools like the energy kyw's on light that morgan was talking about they start to be able to put this puzzle together and look at here the opportunities here the options we have off what makes sense for us as a business to implement in the you know six months timeframe one year to year and help make some really informed decisions about process improvements that healthy ah morgan i wanted to go back to your discussion about <hes> facility tours so this is this is actually when a group of say in the case of brewers use brewers as as an example so you've got <hes> several breweries might send representatives to one brewery and all walk around together and and this and in this particular brewery is getting a real close examination by you folks and everybody's talking about what can this <unk> doodoo to save energy and it makes exclude example for the others to think oh i could probably do some of that myself when i go back to my own my own home business or whatever <hes> do any competitive issues come up. Are there any things where <hes> where we're <hes>. Brewers are nervous about letting the other very kind of hops are using or something or that's a wonderful question and it's what i anticipated going into this mhm and it is not at all what we've found. We've been really fortunate and i think it speaks to the character of vermont and potentially to the character of a brewers in particular in this case that they were very open very comfortable sharing. They're all very confident in their recipes so <hes> here it is again like the alchemy and science. There's a touch of magic to it that they can't be recreated and they've all been really really generous with what they know. It's just been a really warm community and very collaborative. Let's <hes> that's nice to hear. That's extraordinary somewhat counter to the image people have of somebody competitive capitalist environment and business or whatever and might have a secret formula jealously protecting that sort of thing but but <hes> i you know i suppose you know brewers. May maybe a special breed. It's like you drink. Some drinks yours or whatever that is absolutely what we've seen. It is very supportive of one another. That's cool and i would gather. <hes> is the same thing happening it you mentioned. This is a new thing specialty foods but you haven't been on these stories yet with a specialty foods. I haven't but i can say. Are we discussing the the participants during this conversation. We can do that right now. We we actually have to go to a bottom of the hour break for some c._b._s. News in a couple of words from our sponsors and <hes> back in the continuing interesting discussion about doc the applicability of environmental principles in the specialty foods industry will be back. I wish i had a dollar for every compliment. I get about our selection upstairs at the warren store. The season's collection boasts country casual clothing for men women dresses for summer weddings and events baby clothing from sugianto and doodle pants and fairtrade jewelry from around the world. I'm excited about a new line of pottery from londonderry vermont also illuminated paper stars for outdoor fun and it's a great day trip to warren village comfort lunch on the deck upstairs for some unique retail therapy fund funky and friendly and almost world famous. It's the dave ramsey show w._d. And we are back to our discussion about the means specialty foods foods cohort in vermont and we're in the background noise is going on. I'm not sure what that's about but <hes> the <hes> baking okay all we can get into a job over there. Screaming rich farmers cooking's a bacon and got some pots and pans. Joe joe said what joe said. Hey don't don't forget about me. I want to get into this conversation too. So there you go yeah. Rockstar will actually look. Let's let's talk a little bit about the <hes> about your own steps apps joe <hes> in your business to maybe save some energy and and <hes> and or reduce your waist use of water and that sort of thing what what steps have you taken to <hes> to lighten your your footprint on the on the earth all we've been working with officiency vermont from the get-go <hes>. We just expanded our facility. We doubled in size and we worked with efficiency vermont on both projects for our refrigeration shen freezers l._e._d. Lights <hes> we actually put into heat recapture system so all of the waste heat coming off of our compressors now provides us with free hot water. Wow <hes> yeah. I mean it's hot so we love hot water more cleaning every day and we'll let let me ask you <hes> as an economic proposal or economic project here are is it makes it makes sense money-wise. Where's it all about <hes> just being more friendly to the environment. It's both but let's be honest <hes> the engineer working with it's a guy named ethan delegates <hes> and he works for fishing vermont and he runs out these cash flow models for me and and while we're being good pretty environment at the same time economically it's it's kinda mind numbing how much money we save going out one on three and seven years <hes> even so it's a win win. Yeah wow that's that's a that's. That's good to hear good to know and and i'm sure other listeners out there. Who might be thinking about <hes> what i what can i do to take steps to improve my environmental footprint <hes> <hes> that's a that's a key <hes> key factor obviously for folks because it does take some upfront investment right. Oh yeah does not as but you know if we put in the hot water recapture and it was an upfront investments that was quite frankly and we're going to see that we're gonna get repaid on that within the first year that is <hes>. That's a good payback. I'm really yeah. Actually it's so all that's why you know the incentive is there sure the right thing and by by doing the right thing i mean it must also make make make some of your customers customers happy. You know i mean i think of folks who fall. That's what my business model is predicated on <hes> my primary customers. Are you know the co co ops like hunger mountain pull off and healthy living as middlebury co-op <hes> skinny pancake which they wanna you wanna you know they're environmentally conscious to begin with and they wanna do the right thing <hes> and so or business aligns with that model and let me break in here and bring bringing celia racial back into the conversation and ask you celia in the environmental assistance officer department of environmental conservation. What can you do for a business owner like joe to to help him understand what opportunities any of these exist here. That's a great question and so morgan mentioned earlier that we do <hes> a walkthrough of one of the participants based are are focused only on energy but in fact what we do for all of the participating businesses to kick things off is a walk through of their facility on and we do this collaboratively with the efficiency vermont staff and <hes> myself for another person from the assistance office and we go through and we look at their all of their operations from from an energy perspective from perspective of waste management recycling and food waste and and trash or solid waste on we look at how they're using water generating wastewater and so <hes> efficiency vermont has the expertise in the energy side and what since office tries to do is focus on the other ones the the water waste and wastewater issues and many of those actually present potential opportunities for savings as well a great example comes comes from <hes> wastewater side of things where a lot of food and beverage processors <hes> generate what's called high-strength water so i think a lot of stuff in the water a a lot of organic content in cheese making it might be you have a lot of way or you might have some product. That didn't quite make it into packaging. It's a lot of stuff going down on the wastewater system. <hes> in that causes <hes> it takes a lot of energy and capacity at the municipal treatment plant to serve to treat that material before afford discharged into <hes> basically lake champlain or one of the lakes or water so some businesses are actually sir charged. They're charged extra for that organic organic content in their waste so by working with businesses to help them identify sources of high strength using get that out of their wastewater. They can often save money on that surcharge. Let's talk briefly about the the breweries especially in burlington because that was a kind of a big story a year or so ago if i recall correctly and there was a lot of discussion about about the high impact wastewater coming from the whole bunch of new breweries in burlington it seems to be trying to make itself into a beer capital of the world or something and and <hes> we made progress and this is this effort been involved in that in burlington to to to try to clean up the the operations there and reduce is there impact on this city's wastewater system. It's a great question and i would say the sustainability cohorts in all three of the sectors are part part of that solution but there that's it's a bigger problem with a lot of <hes> complexity associated with it so what we're doing with this initiative is helping the businesses this is that we're working with directly and there appears to reduce the strength of the wastewater that goes to the municipal treatment plants. There's other pieces of that solution that that aren't going to be touched on here but mantelpiece yeah i see so so the <hes> it sounds like it's a separate effort then to address the rue brewery waste as an issue in burlington is not exactly what i mean to say is that <hes> the challenges the wastewater systems are are facing are are not it would be hard to say that it's a specific career. It's only one thing going on. There's there's a lot of things going on. This is a piece of the solution and we feel pretty confident that the burris in the dairy processors especially food manufacturers chris. We're working with through this initiative are reducing their impacts a let's talk about specialty food for a minute and joe you're you're <hes> your specialty foods goto as we've mentioned the soups and salsas and and you think things in in cups and jars especially foods and provide not that i'm familiar with <hes> cheeses and <hes> of course vermont's famous for its chocolates. There's a lotta great chocolates on reminded and and and and <hes> wh- what do you what do you see is the biggest <hes> step or the most important step you've taken <hes> let's let's address the issue of of water usage and waste water in your business joe. Is that something that you've been working on. And what have you done well. It's something i'm definitely working on. It's it's a bit of a sore point because most municipalities they charged they meter the water into the facility so the water you're using and then they automatically assume they run on the assumption that that water is going down the drain and you're wasting it so there's sewage charge <hes> and well i make soup when when i pull water out of the it's not going down the drain unless we make a mistake and so i'm actually getting charged from a wastewater fee that i think is disproportional. <hes> what i actually do you know might impact on the system. That's interesting. Have you talked. You're in my have. You talked to the city about this. All we're trying for having conversation and i see big thing big here from from celia racial the d._a._c. celia. What do you know about this. The latest indicate that i'm quite familiar with this issue but the pricing is is something that's determined on the local level <hes> and and i mean it is there is there anything could the legislature way into intel local cities and towns. You need to come up with a new pricing structure for special cases like this or anything. I think if i could tell you what the legislature might do. I would be in a different role here. I think that's a good question but it's not one. I'm able to really answer joe. What do you what do you think is i mean. Is there a statewide solution here or is this really <hes> city by town kind of kind of situation. I'm still at the mind the town i think the city is going to be reasonable <hes> they're they're. They've been kind of blindsided something they were counting on or anticipating. Thank you and i think if we sit down and have a conversation then you know we'll we'll proceed from there. I don't i don't think get needs to come from the state down level okay. I it's interesting to me. Though because i mean my peeler in particular you got a new distillery down the road there and they're running running into because obviously they probably take ins a fair bit of water and some of it might go out the door and bottles instead of down the drain. Shall we say and very valid point so at that to my list yeah okay you might have a you might have a natural ally right down the street there. That's all i'm saying. Did you have something you wanted to add well. I i will only add that one of the you know. The circumstances at each municipality can vary pretty pretty widely both in the <hes> what the wastewater treatment facility can accept and how they build things but it's also true that <hes> not aw aw you're charged based on a on a meter <hes> in you might have water meter coming into your facility but in many cases you know people don't have meters on on the on the exit so there's sometimes there's there's that reason which is just a practical reason i i wondered a couple of minutes is almost just a joke but i thought but what if i were to i live in montreal and sometimes i get the water blind bomb out a little bit and i say to myself what dig a well in my backyard and then we get free sewer because you know they measure the outflow by by the influence or wouldn't have to be much because i'm making a you getting my own water. What about that celia. Could i do that. I would recommend you think twice before doing that. It would probably and joe you know you can probably you could probably tell me about the payback time they would probably be a long time before he was actually able to declare a prophet neighborhood. Elm street actually did that really included in is that allowed. I don't even know why not plums correctly and the e e-coli content and everything at ten thousand got to test it out yep absolutely so y- and celia adhere chomping at the bit i don't wanna get too far the road of digging wells in visit city limits because that that's a that's a different thing entirely but what i'd love to not lose track of today's just listing the businesses that are have have committed to doing this and participating these cohorts because it is a big commitment and all of these people joe included are are busy so i want to get back to the subject yeah yeah so so for the twenty nineteen twenty twenty green specialty foods cohort we have participating and this is alphabetical so burn chocolates vermont good mix foods lake champlain chocolates mad river food hub and joe's kitchen at scream ridge farm awesome. Wow businesses have made a big commitment and <hes> they have their leaders could congratulations to them. Let's get a caller on the line on the air here. Sam news online from williston. Look what's going on him. Well i can. I've got the idea is <hes> was going to say to yourself well and figure out how to meet her meter. The fluid going out <hes>. It's been a problem in the industry for over <hes> as far as i and how forty years because <hes> you are you are multipliers they use in the restaurant industry is they <hes> they <hes> get your seats and they multiplied out on your seats. Besides your meter so your usage they're thinking <hes> everybody in the place. It's going to be using facilities ability but <hes> that's minute ongoing situation but actually wanted to talk about the breweries <hes> repurposing <hes> <hes> their waste into biofuel and running generators to generate their facilities. I know else you've places are doing what the what kind of incentives of wished out there to do the same well. That's an interesting question. <hes> wasn't tackle that is that is that is that something that is in both of our will houses were collaborating efficiency vermont and the agency of natural resources and d._c. Are clamoring bring right now on how to support anaerobic digesters is what he's referencing in vermont and in breweries in particular or well breweries have a powerful waste <hes> that can generate or can be generated or generate some energy so way also so can serve that purpose manure conserve that for us so we're looking at <hes> anaerobic digesters that process food waste and convert it to either renewable renewable natural gas or electricity and feed it back to the grid and we're also looking at farms that are doing the same thing with manure and we're determining terminating what our role is in supporting these because the idea of turning waste into energy that can be utilized anytime of day on like say a solar for example is. It's really exciting so we've seen anaerobic. Digesters go in at magic hat. They were the first in the state. We've got one that's gone in at fiddle head it and shelburne and we've got one that is about to go in and middlebury that will serve agra bark and otter creek and it's very cool because it's not just the energy it generates if the anaerobic digesters situated next to <hes> facility. There's the potential to utilize the waste heat off of it as well so i can get free heat. Interesting ideas has sam. Thanks for the call. Appreciate it in you know in the case of breweries. It's probably east. They could do sorry. I just just ahead and joe. I wanted to go to you and ask you have you have you been working on on issues including <hes> food waste. I'm sure there's a little bit of a compost pile or comes out of your business and <hes> packaging that is much. You're throwing me a grapefruit softball. I'm putting some spin on folly floaters or watch out well years this ago when we've been in our new kitchen or call it my new kitchen we've been here for five years and so five years ago. I still run a vegetable farm three miles from here so all of our compost goes to my farm. We've been composting for five years now and all of that goes back into my greenhouses and out on the fields and the really the the big thing. I'm trying to figure out how do i shred all by cardboard so that i can use it in my compost compost. You know it's the carbon for the nitrogen. Wow that's that's an interesting idea. I mean i don't know whether there are cardboard. Shredders renders on the market or what to do about that but <hes> there are obscenely expensive on trying to find another route or just just a little bit too small to you know use that technology such sounds like you need to hire a teenager with a pair of scissors or something. I don't know breath so low. Tech solution sometimes is the it turns out to be the best but <hes> i don't know how that would what do <hes> <hes> and what what about what about <hes> wastewater is that is something that your <hes> your concern with and well. We talked about that about that a little bit it <hes> let's see oh packaging the other topic. I wanted to cover with you. <hes> what about <hes> have you made changes there or working on a bunch the different stuff but like the bulk wholesale soup we do. We've gone to a nylon and polyethylene bag and we've we've moved away. We don't use anything with plastic. Our retail packaging is free. That's treasonable. Is you know microwaveable wavell and it's actually reusable. I've actually had customers go. Oh i love your soup containers because i use them like tupperware wow and so as long as it's getting a second third fourth to use it just keeps reducing its ecological impact does reduce reuse comes before nuncios redo reduce reuse recycle. Is that right okay so so <hes> all of these steps is interesting how on the one hand they may seem a little bit divergent but on the other hand they all go to the same goal which is essentially trying to minimize your environmental impact of your business and <hes> we were talking on the break a little bit with morgan and celia morgan hood of princes vermont and and of course they re chal are against here in the studio with the vermont department of environmental conservation and and <hes> they were talking about the synergy between their two <hes> two organizations in terms of working on this this overall project here and the one stop shopping aspect of morgan just a couple of minutes to go take a swing at that. What what is that about. I was just <hes> sharing that one of the things that i think our businesses our cohort members find valuable. Well in this approach is that they think of sustainability broadly more broadly than we do. They don't just think sustainability equals energy use. They don't just think sustainability sustainability means. We're going to recycle it encompasses everything and if they participate in this cohort model they're able to address the whole sustainability ability picture under one brought on bella and access all the resources that the state has to offer like one-stop shop. That's a great thing. Cillian final thought goes to you. You're on the spot one of the things that has really impressed and inspired me here is is realizing realizing that these businesses are all they're all run by vermont offers. They're real people and they care about the environment and they all have a story. That's about their personal essex and their personal care for the environment and one of the things we're trying to do here is to help them. Implement or act on those values the business context you know how do you care about the environment. When you're making five hundred gallons a super day or thirty barrels of beer a day in nearly helped them with that specific thing thing that specific application of their personal ethics all right well celia racial department brian little conservation morgan hood of efficiency vermont and <hes> joe buli of joe's kitchen stream ridge farm fake all the three of you very much for joining us this morning fascinating conversation. That's about it for the day graham show on this tuesday morning doc white the weekend yet folks stick with us. We'll be back tomorrow with another addition. Stay tuned our common sense radio with bill.

vermont vermont president dave graham commissioner donald donald trump department of health new hampshire federal government trump vermont health department dave new england dr mark levin vermont department of environm vermont department of health warren store tom terry
August 30, 2019: Hurricane Dorian; Dave Chappelle's Netflix Special

Here & Now

41:17 min | 1 year ago

August 30, 2019: Hurricane Dorian; Dave Chappelle's Netflix Special

"From n._p._r. And w._b._z. I'm peter o'dowd and i'm familiar. Okay it's here and now we are keeping an eye on hurricane doria which could make landfall early tuesday somewhere lab between the florida keys and seven georgia as a catch before hurricane and president trump has declared a state of emergency in florida. He's also cancelled his planned trip up to poland in order to monitor the storm from the u._s. Are friday politics. Roundtable joins us now. Rick klein is a._b._c. political director hi rick great to be with you and kimberly atkins is w._b._z. You our senior washington news correspondent hi kimberly hi there okay so president trump has struggled in the past hit the right tone with disaster astor response. He recorded a video message in the rose garden last night. It's been interesting because it looked like it was going to be a very small storm that we all got lucky at missed puerto rico it hit the virgin islands but not as bad as it could have but it really began to form inform big and now it's looking like it could be an absolute monster. We're ready rick earlier this week. The president was essentially taunting puerto rico when the storm was approaching the island now. Does it sound like he's taking it. Seriously florida is basically a second home. He has two major properties camara lago durell and as you noted he's he's idea that he would cancel his trip to poland suggests that there is a tone that they recognize has to be set here <hes> and he wants to be in a better position from his estate in bedminster or camp david <hes> staying closer to to try to monitor this. I still think this is a president that is willingly engaged asian partisan and political fights even at times of national tragedy and national mourning so i wouldn't preclude that possibility but it does appear that he is trying to take this seriously and in trying to corral the the forces of the federal government in that direction came as the president getting better handing these big potential disasters coming his way well. He's had a lot out of them right. This isn't the first or second or even third there have been a number of hurricanes national. <hes> natural disasters <hes> wildfires any always seems seems to turn to the political when those <hes> when and pick a fight in the middle of them or or to say or do something that seems inappropriate so being the consoler older in chief at this point being being someone who can stand and and make americans feel better that everything is being done is not his strong suit he leaves that to the folks at the agencies agencies to try to do better but in this sense yes we saw him picking the fight with <hes> puerto rican officials as the hurricane approaches but now taking a very a serious a more serious tone when it's florida it's not just as rick correctly pointed out that he himself has a personal stake in the in the state with his properties florida is the crucial swing state in an election year is coming and while that shouldn't play a role in how you respond to something like a hurricane it always does we saw the president go to florida after hurricane hit there before go to other important southern states and i think that's part of the calculation here rick. There was some news from the justice department's inspector general yesterday a report said former f._b._i. Director james comey set a dangerous example for other f. b. i. employees when he released least memos that detailed his interactions with president trump to his lawyer who then released them to a reporter <hes> weigh in on on this news did did we learn anything of value from this report well the fact that he's not going to face any criminal charges in the finding that he didn't actually leak any information is critical and something that komi himself is holding up the president of course touting the fact that the the spectra general did find that he violated department policy and i think i think you have to get into his mindset a little bit. I've i have been thinking and talking to some people quite a bit about it. This was an unprecedented situation that he found himself in and he went through unprecedented links that said there are department guidelines exist for for reasons so to have the head of the f._b._i. Taking these notes storing them in non secure facilities sharing them with a friend of the hopes later on that they would be be seen publicly it it certainly is not the precedent that the federal government would feel comfortable with lower level employees <hes> following that said he did not do anything along the lines at the president continues to suggest that he did calling calling him a liar and a leaker kimberly former defense secretary james mattis as being criticized for some of his writing an op ed in the wall street journal. He wrote this week in advanced. These new book mattis laments the state of american politics and talks about leadership failure without actually naming the president missouri mazzetti sort of gossip any bubbling up behind the scenes about the mattis actually doing this always this to be expected yet. It madison's trying to walk walk a fine line here. I mean he says repeatedly that he doesn't wanna talk about the president that he says it's inappropriate and frankly dangerous to criticize a president wall. He is in office while he is commander-in-chief and has the important issues of the world in front of him. He says he won't keep that silent forever but right now he more more or less is doing it but he is also sort of a sub tweeting. I guess in real time this president talking about things like leadership and values <hes> that he makes very clear this. He doesn't think this president shares it reminds me of his resignation letter which was really one great big sub tweet of president trump <hes> to the point that the president didn't even recognize it front at first it was only in the coverage of that letter that the president got very angry and felt very insulted but i think you're gonna see mattis. Walk walk this fine line. It's not going to please everyone. He's coming under criticism for not saying more. Others are criticizing him for saying too much. I think you'll see him continue to try to take this narrow no road for a while yeah rick. How do you read into this story. A n._p._r.'s reporting the maddest mentioned trump by name only four times in it's all in the prologues i two pages. This is not a guy who's known for wallowing around and political mudslinging in madison's a soldier and recognizes that as the commander in chief he wants to wants to respect the office he also wants to respect the people inside the government including a lot of his friends and former aides and advisers who are trying to make things right and keep america secure recognizing that they're bigger threats than <hes> than internal dissensions inside. I had a cabinet that said i think the evolution of mattis is fascinating. This is not a man who was seeking out this appointment in the first place. President trump accounts became enamored with him. During the transition he called the mad dog which was connect game that madison self like to use and then to see the the full gamut of this run through the time where he feels disaffected with his time and and frustrated. I think it's an interesting insight site whether it has a longer term consequences remains to be seen this just check in on the presidential candidates democratic ones for twenty twenty in an interview with the washington post joe biden responding to a story in the newspaper yesterday that describes how he's been telling a foreswore story on the campaign trail conflicting several incidents of terrorism on the battlefield including the story of a soldier who felt that he didn't deserve a medal because he fell to save accommodate. I i was making the point. How courageous these people are how incredible they are this generation of warriors these fallen angels. We've lost and show that i don't know what the problem is. I mean what is it that i should raw says he got the essence of the stories right kimberly. Is this a problem for him going with this this idea that he's maybe telling fibs yet. I don't think this one instance is going to be make or break. I think if we see over time him continue to flood or exaggerate it only adds to this <hes> idea this pre existing reputation he has for for committing committing gaffes and and for making mistakes on the trail but i think you have to also put this in context with <hes> the republican on the other side president trump the the the washington post so far has <hes> tallied more than twelve thousand <hes> false statements are lies that the president has made since taking office. I i think that sort of the backdrop to all of this. I think most voters are not going to walk away from joe biden because he got the facts of a story wrong. I think if he continues to own it when he makes a mistake and then talk about the reason as he did in this <hes> in this instance <hes> people will understand the difference between nat and the candidate rick isn't joe biden sort of taking a page out of donald trump's book in this in this way. He's he's saying look if i make a mistake that the press is is going to jump all over me like leave me alone. As long as i get the essence of the story across the details maybe not so important sure but i think there's a major difference between the the misstatements and and miss truths that the president regularly tells them what joe biden stands accused of telling this instance and appears to have told him this instance president trump often exaggerates to belittle others a to attack <hes> to to make exaggerated points that that make himself look bigger. I don't think that's what happened here. At all with joe biden to some ways he has a point that it shows maybe the the worst of joe biden with his tendency to exaggerate and five and santa way some of the details but also the best and the the story of comforting a soldier who had lost a comrade and did not want that award. That's a real story. It has been confirmed by the washington post reporting and that tell that speaks to the personal touch the president the vice president biden has kimberly kimberly next month joe biden elizabeth warren bernie sanders all on the same debate stage for the first time in houston. <hes> we know that because the field has been narrowed down to ten what are what are you expecting for this to bake. Yes the debate field has been narrowed down but yeah this will be the first time we will see elizabeth warren and joe biden side by by side is what a lot of people have been waiting <hes> to to waiting for as elizabeth warren continues to rise in her statue rise stature rise in the polls <hes> but don't discount how important it will also be joe biden standing next to bernie sanders. We've already seen the two of them. Sniping at each other on issues like health care a primarily merrily. It's a big issue in this election. I think seeing those three at the center of the stage is really going to elevate this race. <hes> in a new way rick your thoughts well. It'll be on a._b._c. news the twelve so excited about it you'll be there will in and it's going to be a major moment. I think until now sense of a pre game with this campaign and yes there are other candidates who will continue to campaign but this will be the first time the democratic voters will have the most plausible candidates in one place at what time on one night it kinda is a._b._c. Political director kimberly atkins's w._b._z. Our senior washington news correspondent thank you both we're tracking hurricane dorian which is expected to become a category four storm this weekend as it needs the eastern coast of florida governor. Ronda sant is declared a state tiff emergency earlier this week and today he told members of the press to expect evacuation orders for some areas very soon. You will see evacuations. I'm confident of that had but to just willy nilly you know we're not going to be telling every county. Tell everybody to leave because that may create some problems as well. Georgia officials have also declared a state of emergency in at least twelve counties in the southeastern part of that state for more. We're joined now by brendan byrne reporter w. m. f. e. in orlando. Brendan is get to have view. What's the latest that you know about where the storm is heading well. It's still uncertain. This has been a very unpredictable storm but right now we're looking at landfall <hes> kinda the middle of the state just north of west palm beach on tuesday but <hes> the the spaghetti models some have seen on television still haven't really they come to a consensus as to where landfall is so right now. All of the state is kind of in the crosshairs of the storm how your local weather full causes. How are they a._m. Handling this are they serious. Are they okay and lay back that not so much about how seriously you should take the storm. It does a florida meteorologists. Meteorologists forecasters are good at remaining calm and making sure people are prepping also have the right information. <hes> one of our little memes here in central florida is a local weatherman named tom terry and we kind of looked to his levels of undress <hes> to find out how it is so right now. His blazer is off but his sleeves are not rolled up so once his sleeves are rolled up then then and you know tom terry means business and you need to start getting a little concerned all right. Keep watching that they say wherever it hits their nobis high winds heavy rain <hes> how is central florida again to handle that. Have you seen that being handling the past right. Now folks on the on the coast here are starting to board right up in thinking about the high winds off the coast and also flooding. <hes> flooding is a big concern for for us here so i'm in central florida. We have sandbag sandbag distributions. We're getting reports this morning that <hes> there are very long lines <hes> for these sandbags <hes> you know flooding is always something need to worry about with all of our lakes and canals <hes> also the storm surge on the coast. <hes> also folks are stocking up because we know that it's not just the storm's impact but what happens after the storm and the way this one is tracking. He's moving very slow and it looks like it's going to be a wind and rain event. That's going to knock power out and <hes> as floridians gradients were used to not having power for weeks at a time so folks. Are you know fueling up their generators. <hes> you know getting all of their nonperishable foods and water. There's been a mad rush <hes> for for water as well. Oh the governor of florida governor is say they will be evacuation. This is critical because those routes out of of the areas of danger. They can get jammed up. What's your experience seeing people leaving in an orderly fashion right so i it seems like governor to santa's this is kind of holding off on ordering these evacuations just because of the uncertainty of the track but when the evacuations are in order there is a lot of coordination between the department of transportation so they'll open up both sides of a highway so a northbound and southbound highway turns into an all northbound highway <hes> they'll suspend toll roads you can news are multitude of toll roads here in florida as well <hes> and <hes> and a lot of the hotels in the state are offering discounted rates for folks that we need to get <music> out of the area and there are some of their pet policies so that people can bring their animals with them as well brendan obviously a holiday weekend. How is that impacting preps well. Ah so what we've heard from. Some of the hotel folks is that there's been a lot of cancellations at hotels but also <hes> there's been people filling them up with trying to get off the coast and come more inland as well. I think the extra day off is going to help folks having monday off. Although it looked like we were going to have an impact earlier in the week so i think you know being able to have some of those hotels open up is gonna really help folks that are trying to get out of the areas that are going to be impacted. Sounds like you're gonna to be in good hands in the hands of tom terry your local weather forecaster watch out for when those lease get road off and stay safe brendan byrne reporter for w. m. f. e. in orlando lando. Thanks brendan my pleasure. Thank you comedian indian. Dacia power returned this week with a stand up special for net flex with the little insight into what it's like to be a famous person right now celebrity hunting season the matter what i say they're going to get everybody eventually like. I don't think i did anything wrong but we'll see why. Chapelle has made a career out of divisive steve jokes these specialist definitely designed to provoke or maybe just make you think and love n._p._r. Tv critic eric dagens joins us right now so all right. Let's get to it. Shapiro jokes about a lot of very sensitive things including those embroiled in the metoo era. Here's how he describes himself in. The special was known on the streets as a victim blaming. Somebody can what to date. Chris brown just beat up. I'll be like well. What does she do. I'm watching the audience and they spend the whole time. I i know all three the special well you know so they chapelle seems to have decided that since people are gonna come after many way he might as well push every button he ran a and as much as possible proving his theories about how people how cancel cultures out of control he's sort of enacting the purest role of the incisive comic he pushes the envelope and then when he really crosses the line we the audience and critics push back a little bit. I think he has a point about our cancel culture. People people try to out woke everybody. <hes> can be really annoying but i also think about coming. I also think he downplays how humor can socialize us to accept this view of people. That's rooted in stereotypes so that's rooted in prejudice behavior and as much as it makes me sound like a schoolmarm to bring that up i do you believe that there's some times when he crosses that line and a special. Let's talk about some of those lines. Perhaps for some people who've been watching this special so he gets his audience to they are laughing thing out. Loud talking about kevin hart's refusal to apologize for anti-gay tweets which then took him out of the running for being the oscar host and then. He says he can't help himself for making fun of the transgender community the l._g._b._t. Community why i think this is shebelle's biggest blind spots entertainer. We've got a clip of this moment from his special social where he talks about how comedy central assisted that he'd take a gay slur. I don't wanna hit. Chapelle shows <hes> episodes in the same way. That kevin hart was ostracized for not apologizing apologizing for homophobic tweets from his paso. Let's check that out when i didn't realize at the time and what kevin had to learn the hard way as we were breaking an unwritten and unspoken unspoken rule of show business and if i say it you'll know that i'm telling you the truth the rule is that no matter what you do when you're artistic expression you are never double ever allowed to upset the alphabet people now i just i just wonder how chapelle would feel if a white comic said that about black or brown people 'cause. I bet there's been a similar joke about the a._c._p. And his his unwillingness to see the difference between a black person choosing to use a slur about his own people <hes> the n. word and using a slur to refer to gay people when you're gay that seems a little disingenuous to me you know th there's moments in this special win. He's positioning himself as a truth teller but he's not really telling the whole truth and i think that's kind of a problem so he makes jokes about the opioid crisis he makes about paedophilia. He makes jokes about outdoing shooter drills in schools because of mass shootings does this allow him to have complete freedom of what he commentated on in our world right now. He's not scared. Gatty doesn't appear to be scared of any topics. Nothing is too yeah and i think that's what people love about. They should tell us what i love about dave chapelle. He's funny insightful dude dude. He's a master stand up comic he's able to kind of distill social issues and his commentary into bitter funny and telling all at once and that's his genius and i love that about him. There's a moment in the special way talks about the opioid crisis and observing it from ohio where there's a lot of white people and he makes this joke about how <hes> <hes> maybe what people should have paid attention by people were suffering <hes> and he says now i understand how white people feel because i don't care about why people either and he he's he's obviously joking but its version of a joke that i actually heard richard pry many many years ago where he said maybe the next time you see black people in trouble double you'll try to help and he's making the same point in a different way trying to make people feel what that callousness really feels like so. It's almost as chapelle is ready for this pushback so he says many times obviously i'm joking and then he also says right at the top of the special remember member. You clicked on my face. Does that allow him to do whatever he wants with these comedy because you don't have to watch netflix special you can watch something. We asked about plenty to watch out. Oh yeah obviously you can watch something else but i'm always reminded of my mother and how she felt about don rickles now don rickles is a comic. That's beloved by a lot of comics and a lot of people but one of the things he used to do. When he made fun of black people he would use this very very heavy. Thick dialect in the whole point was that maybe they weren't as bright as other people and my mother got to the point where she would not watch watch don rickles because she felt like this comic who appeared on the tonight show was telling the world black people were stupid and there's an element of that to even the best comic if you allow prejudice and stereotypes to be at the root of some of their jokes there's always this idea that that can become accepted normalized normalized the challenge in dealing with chapelle is he so brilliant that to look at the few moments when he doesn't seem to get it is difficult but but it's important that we do that that we have the strength to go to even someone like they chapelle and say you're a genius but there are times when you don't get it brother and you need to get with and be on tv critic eric dagens. Thank you thank you so. We want to note something that happened in oswego new york earlier this month. It was a reunion. Maybe the last of a group of jewish refugees who as children were brought it to us. We go during world war two to escape the holocaust. The city on the shores of lake ontario was the only place in the u._s. To shelter jewish refugees during the war pain hornets from member station w. r._v. Oh reports the day began with church bells ringing at precisely seven thirty a._m. Them to mark the exact time that the train carrying the nine hundred eighty two refugees arrived in oswego seventy five years ago the surviving refugees spent the morning traveling to local cemeteries where they honored those who had died while living at fort on -tario <hes> <hes> on here he okay he the refugees alive. Today were children when they arrived oswego in one thousand nine hundred eighty four they shared stories of what it was like to come to a foreign in country including simon calderon didn't know what to expect. The food is good it. A white bread was like henry brecher says adjusting sting to life in america was difficult at times. I remember going to the movies every weekend. I think it must have been saturdays. It was one way of learning english. We've never had any formal language lessons. I for one didn't speak a word of english despite the struggles all of the refugees including including bruno kaiser who was sixteen at the time he arrived in oswego said some of their fondest memories are the people here who welcomed them to the community. Residents brought the refugees. Oh jeez gifts and invited summoned at their homes for holidays. The local people were extremely helpful and positive as opposed to the antisemitism awesome awesome. We were exposed to european experience of all the stories that were shared. This one seems to rise above the rest. I at a time when the united states and much of the world refused to harbor refugees oswego was one of the few exceptions children are the refugees like called runs daughter lauren bloom say people shouldn't forget about that which is more than just history to those who received the other relatives didn't want able to didn't survive live self still fortunate that i'm here because he was able to come yeah bloomberg her children to the celebration she and her father see it's important to pass this lesson onto the next generation especially with what's happening today at the southern border those people they're fleeing because they're not safe just like my dad and his pants yeah so we should welcome them on my my family. Given the age of the remaining refugees. This is likely the last reunion of its kind in oswego. It's one of the reasons why local and new york state officials are working overtime to make four antero and the safe haven holocaust refugee shelter turn museum a national park kevin hill president of the safe haven museum says the lessons this story tells must be preserved. We need to learn history history so that we don't repeat it and by learning this history we can learn you know how we need proceed as a country hill says making this place a national park would do more than just put oswego on a map it would enshrine part of the city's history that too many of its residents is a source of significant pride. That's really built into the fabric of of what else we go is for here and now i'm paying horning and that's been a dazzling week for a new generation of young female tennis players at the u._s. Open in new york fifteen year old coco gov continued her tear yesterday when her opponent's backhand sailed into the net it is the youngest female player to reach the third round of the u._s. Open since one thousand nine hundred ninety six annakournakova did it. She's become a minor celebrity celebrity after beating her idol venus williams at wimbledon earlier this year yesterday. She says she's been inspired by all. The young american women doing so well in tournament. I think we're all just kind of pushing each other obviously when we play against each other. We don't want the person to win but literally all the time when it's another when they're playing against somebody else. We're always reading for each other because we just grew up together and we trained together all the time. One of the women golf singled out is twenty three year old. Taylor townsend ranked one hundred hundred and sixteenth in the world but yesterday in a huge upset took down fourth-seeded simona halep. The townsend was asked by the announcer how she was able to pull off that win. I don't really think i can say what was is going on in my head just because a t._v. but we'll bleep it but i mean i just told myself. This is an opportunity. It's a chance and i go for it. You have nothing to lose and we'll continue following the action at the u._s. Open in queens as it heads into its second week. Qantas airlines is testing the viability of long haul flights from new york and london to the east coast of australia. The nineteen twenty hour test flights scheduled to start in october. The airline wants to know how spending so much time in the air affects the human body. Let's bring in captain larry rooney. He's president of the coalition of airline pilots associations and a pilot for american airlines captain ruining welcome. Thank thank you for having me today and first of all my goodness who wants to be on an airplane for that will certainly be an endurance test not only for the passengers but for the flight crews. What's what's the longest flight you've ever flown. I would say around eleven or twelve hours would be the my would have been a my endurance test really but i haven't done that in a very very long time time i recently flew back from prague the week or so ago as a passenger and nine hours and change that was long gonna for me well right so the people on these quantities test flights will be fitted with wearable technology. It's going to measure their melatonin levels. The pilots will wear an e._e._g. Gee to track brainwave patterns. What concerns would you have about your own health. On a one thousand nine hundred twenty hour flight well you know depending on the pilots aged hypoxia would be consideration very very long exposure to very dry atmospheres and high altitude flying the we typical cabin of an aircraft would be equivalent to you know denver plus a thousand feet or so but for an extended period of time you know rather rather than the ten hours at you know would be pretty commonplace today to extend it to double that amount of time. I think that that would be something that the the people would be looking at that would have the expertise to be able to measure those metrics. And how many pilots would you need. I guess you'd probably have to take a break braked asleep. At some point well. That's that would be a huge component as well and i mean it's uncharted territory. At this point as flights get progressively longer <hes> the the airlines have to staff with additional pilots and that's you know several reasons the importance is that the most alert crew is the crew that lands the airplane replant the destination in order to do that as flights get longer and longer in length the keep adding additional crew members so that there's always somebody that is his able to get rest and again the goal is to make sure that the most arrested pilot is the one that is the one that completes the landing at the end of this this long endurance flight we have added additional crew members in additional crews but to get to the length of flights that we're talking. Now it's again. It's uncharted territory as to how the regulators would require those airplanes to be staffed while singapore airlines has a nonstop ninety five hundred mile flight from newark new jersey to singapore clocks clocks in eighteen hours and thirty minutes so close there. <hes> cutter airways has an eighteen hour flight from auckland to doha. We've been talking about the the crew. What about the passengers. What are airlines doing to keep their passengers comfortable. Well i mean i can't speak for an individual carrier because i'm sure that each of them would use the the future bids that they provide their plays as a as a technique in order to get sales i would think but this would be something that a passenger would have to prepare for as well because of the long endurance with the way that a passenger would would treat a flight to this length in order to be as comfortable as possible on the rival rival certain things would you know as far as their their habits alcohol would be one that would certainly would wanna be much lower intake. <hes> <hes> one of flight is of that length because the dehydration issues that normally occur on flights of of extreme lancs. This one obviously would be the most extremely yeah well. There's been concerns about deep vein thrombosis on long flights on these longer flights. You'd have to imagine that even more people would be vulnerable well and the ability ability for a passenger to get up and move to you know as we keep cramming more and more people into the airplanes you know the ability for them to have free space to build to move around becomes more and more restrictive directive understanding that the flights today the ones that have been these ultra ultra long flights have not been packed with economy <unk> class seats. There are more where their business class or better so that the passengers that are traveling on these extreme long flights have the ability to move around more than they would. If if it was a domestic seven thirty seven let's say yeah and a lot of these flights are on boeing dreamliner or on airbus a three fifties or big beautiful new planes <hes> tell me more about the technology analogy that makes these flights possible. Well you know technology gets you know increases the airplanes or getting lighter because of the composites that they're now able to build into the design the engines become more efficient and as such they have long durations that they can obtain because the fuel feeds the engines for longer since or not quite as thirsty as they used to <hes> <hes> and with that you know you've got you're starting to see now these ultra long flights that are taking place because of the abilities for the airplanes to do it. I think where we have to really look at it. This is the the human machine to the interaction with the human machine because of the technology increases. We have to ensure that the that the human machine is up to the challenge alan sure and it sounds like that's what quantity is doing but i'm just curious. Do you know how much fuel you would need for something like this. Well i would suspect it's all all the european would hold but yeah it would. It would be to the absolute limit. You're talking twenty or flight. It's far as what that would be in pounds. I'm not sure what the fuel burn of that particular plan is because they're all slightly different. You do make a good point though airplanes are designed to have extra gas in the tank right so that if something thing happens you. You don't have just enough to get you to where you need to be. I just wonder how much further you could push these planes to go. Well there would actually the the the plan would determine airman. The ability for the flight to operate is the the regulators do require planes to have a certain amount of reserve fuel available to them when they arrive at the destination the the flight crew the captain and the dispatcher who are responsible for the flight would have to discuss whether or not that particular flight that particular routing the weather that would be it would be facing the arrival would allow that flight to operate nonstop. There's many times where flights that you know that could maybe go nonstop. If all the conditions nations were right would have to make technical stop for fuel somewhere and route just because they couldn't push it to that extent if they needed to pad the fuel reserves for contingencies for whether you know for delays could happen so these are all things that go into the flight planning phase and this would be no different different for an ultra long flight qantas points out that no commercial airline has ever flown direct from new york to australia. Do you think these ultra long flights are the last frontier of aviation there the next frontier aviation because there will always be another frontier aviation. I think that has shown we've we've learned that over the years years from looking back to the nineteen twenties where we are today. I think we're constantly improving and and you know trying to get better technologies. Certainly what we fly with today on our cockpits are worlds apart from what i started with thirty five years ago so there's many many changes that will you know and i think we'll continue to see these changes as we we go forward that's captain larry rooney. He's president of the coalition of airline pilots associations and a pilot for american airlines mary thanks so much thanks thanks for having me today. A permanent hong kong protester is free now after being arrested arrested and granted bail earlier today joshua wong and other activists were detained in connection with a big protest june when demonstrators blockaded police headquarters is for fifteen hours. Emily fan is n._p._r.'s beijing correspondent. She's in hong kong. Emily tell us more about what happened to your show wong and these other activists earlier today they were the targets of a coup <unk> coordinated wave of arrests across the city today and the case of joshua wong he was actually walking to the metro in the morning when a mini van drove up wong was shoved inside and then brought to police headquarters in hong kong's wanchai district this is all according to a statement released by zero which which is the youth student activist group that joshua wong is a leader in around the same time he was being transported to police headquarters agnes chow another activist was was arrested in her home and brought to police headquarters the night before andy chan who is an independent activist and politician was also detained at the hong kong airport. He'd been trying to fly lighted japan. All three were arrested for a quote inciting and organizing an unlawful gathering and reference to the event you mentioned in june when they besieged a police station and <hes> wong and shout. Were let go earlier this evening. They were let loose on bail and they walked out of the courthouse to a throng of reporters and supporters <hes> and it wasn't just them today. <hes> a local lawmaker a district council member or among a handful of people who were arrested and they're only one of a handful of about nine hundred protesters so far far that have been arrested since protests began more than twelve weeks ago. The protests have been getting bigger and bigger more people from hong kong adjoining them so these arrests. What does it tell you about where we are in this situation with people from hong kong and battling the authorities it means that beijing is willing to escalate belly but the hong kong protesters have not shown that they're willing to back down <hes> this weekend was supposed to be a really big political anniversary. It's the fifth anniversary history of a decision from beijing to maintain control over how hongkongers leaders are elected and that decision was the moment that sparked the two thousand fourteen umbrella movement a pro democracy movement during which joshua wong agnes chow andy chen. These three activists were arrested. This week became prominent activists. It's <hes> of course those fizzles out but they've impart inspired the protests that we're seeing here today and the fact that the the hong kong government which is in part directed by beijing and decided to swoop in at once on the three activists on the eve of this anniversary signals that they're willing to step up their intimidation of the protesters so a march was planned for this weekend. Authorities said this cannot go ahead. What do you think might happen. The protesters are preparing to hit the the streets again tomorrow for a long day marching in defiance of a police ban on the march in the rally. The question is right now. Whether things will get violent and when the pattern so far has been a handful of several hundred or thousands of protesters tend to stay into the very end of the night and that's when confrontations nations with police get more violent <hes> the fear though is that police having banned the march or going to act violently more aggressively early on earlier on one and the day but the feeling on the street is this wave of arrests that happened this morning has only galvanized protesters and the movement is leaderless so the fact that these <hes> handful of people were taken off the streets of the protest. Tomorrow has no impact whatsoever on who goes out part of the reason why we're paying attention into these arrests because joshua wong although you say the movement is leaderless is somebody that the activists the protesters they look to him. He gives guidance. He speaks to the international community so the latest from him. What are you hearing from him. He has been released. He gave a speech with agnes. Chow on the steps of the hong kong courthouse dema sisto the activist group that he is a leader of also gave a press conference earlier today and they were defiant they chanted chanted against what they thought was police overreach and terror and they encourage protesters to continue to go out to protests. They also warned that <hes> if beijing zhang is willing to step up intimidation like this and not answered their demands then protesters might have to take quote more radical actions <hes> in their efforts to get hong kong and beijing to pay attention emily so many of the protesters are young. People university starts next week. How do you think i think that might impact the protests. I don't think it will at all students. At <hes> schools across the city are staging a mass boycott of classes on the first day of school. I we'll be following this and from the beginning of the protests. There is this mentality of mutually assured destruction. You might have seen some of the graffiti quitting the hunger games saying you burn with us. It's the idea the ad that if beijing does not listen to the protesters they are willing to destroy their city even themselves in the quest for real democracy and that mentality has only <hes> burned brighter given the arrests this morning and can i just ask you this. This one thing is as a reporter covering this. Do you feel the energy from the protesters. Do you feel that this. This is something extraordinary. Oh totally yeah i mean i think the umbrella movement was already extraordinary and people this time. It's like no-holds-barred <hes> they just don't see an alternative. They're we're willing to you've seen the headlines they're willing to die and when he fang as n._p._r.'s beijing correspondent speaking with us from hong kong emily thank you thanks for me here. Oh now he's a production of n._p._r. And w in association with the b._b._c. world service. I'm familiar okay this is.

president reporter florida Rick klein dave chapelle joe biden donald trump hong kong oswego beijing n._p._r. Brendan tom terry madison kimberly atkins brendan byrne washington Political director peter o'dowd joshua wong
From the Statehouse

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:32:26 hr | 2 years ago

From the Statehouse

"The radio on. It's the Dave Graham show on WD. It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most to you now, here's your host, Dave Graham. Good morning Bramante. We are broadcasting live on this Friday morning, March twenty nine from the state house in Montpellier, and we lent him over here in Friday mornings to check in on what's been going on under the golden dome and what's likely coming up next week. It just the overall training issues are here as the legislature is entering. I wouldn't say it's homestretch, but probably the backstretch or something now of this two thousand nineteen session here and getting ready to getting ready to turn attention towards springtime. We hope it'll get a little warmer here. Couple of weeks to get the idea of okay, we're gonna have to cap on his at some point could, of course, the legislature normally wraps up around may or so and we're on track to do that this year a good show today. We actually have four senators. It's all senators all the time this morning on the day Graham show, and we're gonna be talking with Randy Bracha, Senator Franklin county starting off on issues related to state technology acquisitions, and how Vermont's doing on making sure that government functions real rely on computer networks and telephone lines. And that sort of thing how well they're working. We're going to be hearing from Senator Ginny lion's share the Senate health welfare can be a second half hour about new efforts to streamline and strengthen for months opiate, addiction and other other types of addition prevention and treatment, Senator Jeannie, Senator Ginette white rather is joining us in the second hour talk about a constitutional amendment related his slavery and maybe couple of other issues before her government operations committee had finally Chris brave wrapping it up he's a democratic Senator from Addison county chairs the environmental community, Senate, natural resources and energy committee. And he's gonna be talking to us about where we're going to get some money to clean up late Champlain, we need to raise tax to pay for weatherization, and what about a plastic bag and straw band. And that sort of thing Ramada, we're going to be doing that. So we had a lot of good issues cover this morning. I want to start out this morning. They'll with Randy Brock. He's longtime state Senator from Franklin counties. I mentioned these Republican also served a couple terms as state auditor back in the previous decade and Senator Brock. They. So what's for joining me this morning? Thank you. Dave. Thank you. And you are somebody who I've been wanting to get on the show for while actually because you follow very closely probably more closely than I at least ninety five percent of the other people in this building an issue, which I think is important in which for monitor's ought to care about. It's a little dry, but it has to do with telecommunications. And technology, and how well the state does in terms of just setting up its public systems for EV. Everything from calling nine one one to making sure that their communications among our first responders, the event of disaster other issue that they need to get out there, and then be talking to one another and back to their headquarters and someone so let's just take these that in no particular order, but I don't wanna the issues you follow closely is the nine one one issue. Of course, we've had this enhanced nine one one system where people can call up the dial nine one one for anywhere, Vermont and theory. Anyway, is that the dispatch will be we'll see where that call is coming from a map a mapping system that enables the dispatcher say take left, right et cetera. To get you to that house and put out the fire or whatever the issue is. So how's that working? Well, I think by large it's working well for most people, I I became interested in particular, you'll probably about five years ago when not even know what the reason was but. I had to find out of how my house was registering in the nine one one system, and what I found is that the fire department would go to a location about three miles away from my house, if they responded to nine one one so that obviously piqued my interest that would your interest. I mean because that will take a long coast department responding three miles away that has has been solved and some of those early problems. I think are are largely resolved. But there are some lingering problems, for example, there's something called the isolation issue and that happens when typically on a landline. Someone calls nine one one. And there's a problem with the system and the call can't get out of that free digit calling coat. And so as a result, it may you make able to call someone in your local area, but you can't call nine one one and something like that has already happened in Albert which I represent in grant county twice in which a problem at the school resulted in a call to nine one one. And they couldn't get through. This isolated issue has been around at least since two thousand seven and it's still unresolved. What I- in looking at it. And I look at it in the Senate from two perspectives. First from the Senate finance committee, which has oversight of utilities and also from something that we formed last year called the joint information technology oversight committee, which has an oversight role regarding both communication systems and telecommunication and telephone that is actually a committee made up of senators that house, I'm right? The three members from the Senate and free members from the house. And and this is the kind of issue that it strikes me that for longtime. It hasn't gotten a lot of attention around this building here at the state house be in part because there just wasn't. There wasn't any committee with jurisdiction with directors diction over the die one one system over. We'll get a couple of other sisters that are. That's a classic example because the nine one one system touches a variety of agencies of government. It touches information technology it touches telecommunications. Which generally supervised by the public service department and the public utilities commission. It also touches the department of public safety because it's the police agencies that are often the responders to nine one one call. So there are a lot of hands in it. And from the legislative standpoint, the Senate does have a committee that's dedicated to these issues, but or the house does, but the Senate it's fragmented the institutions committee has some responsibilities finances some responsibilities that govern operations, and that's another reason for this joint information technology oversight committee to try to bring a perspective that's more holistic, you know. It's interesting too. Because you talked about the committee jurisdiction be kind of fragmented here at least until now Krisha it's joint committee the. The executive branch is pretty fragmented too. Because if you a legislator, even the classic thing is to hold a hearing, call call in any problem government, all these rates official responsible kind of, you know, call on the carpet a little bit and say what gives why why why visit isolated problem. It's been going on for the last the last twelve years, he said, you I learned about the two thousand seven still unresolved. Why the heck not Mr. or MS executive branch official? And and yet here we have a case where well telecommunications the department of public service. No, it's public safety. You've hit the nail right on the head is that there is an awful lot of finger pointing as to where the ball gets dropped down. There's been a request made body ministration to the public utilities commission to take a look at this issue and recognize it is a complex issue, but you have to go back a bit because there was a time in which telecommunications and information technology, very separate, you know, the they back to the days of the old mall Ma bell system in which Telefe telephone meant telecommunications bent telephone in the conventional hardwired sense. But that's not where we are today. There's a convergence between telecommunications and regular information technology use of the internet, and so on which many people use to get their phone service today and regulatory environments different between what the federal government has preempted so states can't effectively touch it. And what we do at the state level. And we need to step back. And I think take a a much broader, look, we could even go back further to the whole issue of information technology in state government. And I think fairly stated I do not believe that information technology is a poor competency of Mont state government. I. If you that, you know, for years, we had a tax system that was John around the turn of the century. That of went awry was over budget and was late. We've had a motor vehicle system in eighteen million dollars system that didn't work and we managed to get some money back but not over money back fail system. We had a judiciary system that exploded and was in successful. And then the classic example was about healthcare. That cost us of the public statement is two hundred million dollars. I'm convinced it was much more than that. And still today does not work fully as intent. Yeah. This stuff private companies manage to have have an IT department generally that that works and they not completely smoothly. You know? They have their shoes they bump through them in general. You know, you go to the IT department and say why is my system not working here? Eddie and hold somebody accountable. I wanna go to a caller we have a listener online of Lee way from currents morning. Wait running gas as your guest still there is. Yep. Okay. Good years ago. I was formerly a pledge e profile chief in Korean maybe twenty years ago after I was out, but still is a responder. We landed of see statewide enhance on one system and one thing that happened upon the location and some towns are given the option to use a different form. Miller for house number. Are you aware of that? I did not know that. No. Yeah. Yeah. So just for listening to. People don't know how it works. So there's fifty two hundred and eighty feet in a mile, and that's your house number. If you live one mile from the intersection by the corner store on that named road. Your house numbers fifty to eighty on the right hand side to eighty one or two seventy nine on the left hand side as you travel that road some towns where we're able to use instead of the thousand divided by thousand they weren't able to use divided by a hundred so for instance, my house number eight, oh three eight tenths of a mile on the left hand side of the road coming up to the village the next year, which is inside of my house. Once I hit the town line number eight, oh three is eight miles up that road, and that is has caused in the pan and confusion and delayed responses for both in Winston fire and police, and if anybody addressing I brought this up before maybe six or seven years ago and doesn't seem like anything's changed. And so. It sounds like what you what we need here, some kind of consistency at least. So that when when a when a able to service or whatever is dispatched somewhere, they know what the numbers mean for brand and impression when it was first implicated that that would be a standard formula throughout the state. So if you had a large mutual aid response from one town to another everybody on the same page, and that's not the case. I don't know. How many other towns several other towns, but also use the divided by one hundred formula? Yeah. And and. What is the? Tell me what you think about this. Why I mean, it just seems like we've been at this thing now for twenty years or so this is nine one one if not longer twenty five years, maybe I think it was the early nineties when I launched, and is is the issue that we've ever really had a a strong enough agency in charge of implementing this system to make it really make sense. And. I bet an improvement. In part is is the the demographics of the emergency services themselves. We're using a lot more out of town services. You know, amyloid services medical relief and so forth. So in the old days when it was a phone tree. You know that the fireman's wife had a phone treat a list, and they would call the firemen and everybody knew everybody's back road, which is the right way to go. When the when the roads are closed or much in and it worked pretty well. But I don't think we see that. Now, we have a lot of outta town. Hopefully, if you're lucky enough to have those those volunteers, whether they're locals or out-of-towners, and they're not familiar with the roads. And of course, was the renaming of the roads under Hans nine one one two. So some of the roads that we known for generations are not under the same name anymore. So you kind of need to have to have the digitalized enhanced nine one system coming out of nine one one hub, which then is digitally and my radio impede your dispatching emergency services, but they need to keep it pretty simple standard. Is across the board for sure. Well, one of the things though that I think is important now again is to recognize the evolution of technology from the time that the nine one one system was created to now we have something called GPS and folks are able to dial in and address even on a road that they never been on. And able to be led to that road with a stunning degree of accuracy middle. A lot of a lot of folks are able to do that they have are actually getting now emergency calls. EMT's firefighters are getting them on an app on their phone. And it shows you a map and ninety nine percent of the time that works pretty good. But you do have some seasonal roads, which GPS or Google maps can show as an open road. And as the old the old adage goes, you can't get the here. Happen. Does happen. Does. What happens? I mean this. This may be a dumb question for somebody is really not that steeped in this stuff. But I I wonder also if you don't have cell service. You don't really have GPS, right? I mean, you're well we have right now. That's correct. Yes. And no sometimes you do because you're getting you're getting it through satellite getting it through other other means, but at the same time this whole issue of the new I net system for telecommunications. For first responders is going to address I think some of those issues better perhaps also help us get better cell phone coverage to remote areas of Mont that don't have it today. All right, wait. Thank you very much for the call. You raise the issue issue here. And I, and I certainly appreciate you calling us up with your history and expertise in this area. That's great Senator. Randy brock. I also let's talk about I had a little bit. Because this was a big issue about a year ago. Now when the state was. Just on the actually I guess I was a little more than a year ago. Now, the state had to make a decision I think by the end of seventeen it was as to whether a wanted to opt in with this national program. Most most states are doing it joining ATT telecommunications giant, and and having them administer a new system for public safety communications in the state. There was some trepidation and has attention on the part of Mont and more. So New Hampshire and just wondering updates on this issue. Where are we now in is is it Voronova decided to go with the Georgia state, and it was a financial decision. The financial decision basically was very much akin to the kind of decision we made regarding Vermont health connect as to whether we wanted to go out and do it on her own whether or not we wanted to join the federal system. Most as because otherwise we would have had to spend an enormous amount of state money to do this and our experienced certainly in in in large scale IT projects was not encouraging that that would be a wise idea. Now that said one of the biggest concerns was the secrecy surrounding. I it's a contract between first night and the federal government. That is secret. We can't see the details. We don't know. What's in it? We know what they promised to do for us. But we can't get under the hood. And I think that scares most people and many people who are involved in this very worried that I that AT and T will treat this as part of a monopolistic attempt to Carter certain parts of the Tele-Communications market now that may not prove to be true, that's pure speculation. But that has been one of the concerns that that number bowls demont. Elsewhere have I want to change it up a little year with Senator rainy Brock last minutes that we have here is again. This morning at the state house in my pillar. He was saying I was I was gonna ask them about the progress on the on the first net system being installed by AT for the state public education. And the answer was I got over the break was essentially that it's too early to tell we we're not far enough down the road yet really good report card on how well that's system is working. We do wanna keep tracking that and hope to have Senator Brock back in the coming months, and maybe years to talk to about 'continuing, develops technological. But Senate rocket a member of the Senate finance committee that attacks raising committee of the Senate also has some other broader concerns just about the overall shape state government, these days in one of the things that theme that you seem to be hitting on in our conversations over the last couple of days is this I d that Vermont is taxing report help the four what's going on here. Well, I see just a whole bunch of little things, and you know, you can still get something ways of. Ton. That's made out of feathers because you keep adding feathers to that truck load of feathers that are already in there. And that's what I'm seeing happening. I see for example over the house. They just passed a Bill to deal with weatherization in which we've increased the tax on eating fuels and on some diesel fuel. We looking at paid family leave and rather than the governor's program that uses a voluntary insured approach the notion of mandatory approach that approach depending on the tax rate would actually increase the total taxes on the poor by anywhere from eight to fifteen percent. And to me you can't fight poverty by raising taxes on the poor. I look at issue like housing wise, affordable housing, so unaffordable when we create an affordable house under the forcible housing programs. We have right now, they cost three hundred thousand dollars a piece that's higher than the average price of home sales in Vermont. I I was shocked when I saw project they went in in Montpellier than the last year or so which was that it was for a one bedroom or even studio apartments were in that price range. And I was like, you know, that's that's a lot. That's why in the housing Bill that will come out of Senate. Economic development. There is a provision that I add that basically goes to the issue of an analysis as to what are the components of cost in these houses. And why does it cost what it costs, and we need to really drill in on that? Now, the proposals also to register every rental house in Vermont. And my my point is for what purpose all with cost all of the all of the cost of all of the female you add up. I mean, I know talking with Neil responding jailed for yesterday about the proposal for two addition to the tax on the heating fuels to pay for whether as Asian, and you know, it's nickels and dimes after dollars while. So it is it is like the lyrics in Les Miserables here a little slice their little cut free percent for sleep with the window shuts. Yeah. Didn't remember that. But that's actually might be on point. That's that's that's pretty good. Well, I I know they're kind of issues we continue talking about all morning here. But. Definitely we're gonna gotta go to bottom of the hour break CBS news. And also, some get some more sponsors. We'll be back with a discussions with other senators. It's going to be an all Senator show today. And I wanna thank Senator. Randy Brock for joining me on the program. First office morning. Interesting conversation about information technology by your your concerns about the overall shape of state government in the tax policies. And so on thank you very much. Thank you. And we will go to the bottom of the hour break for some CBS news couple responses to be back with more than grab show, a WD FM and AM just a couple of minutes. Lawson's finest classic clothing, and cutting edge fashion, are you sandwiches and grabbing go meals toys, a wide selection of Rosa, jewelry accessories. Quarter pound cookies and even more beer, the Anki magazine doesn't call us the best one stop shopping Vermont for nothing the warrant store where funky friendly in almost world famous. Back to the Dave Graham show on WD, FM and. And we are back here. Broadcasting live from the state house in montier. We are we like to do this on Friday mornings, we come down from our usual haunt in Waterbury and visit the state house to get caught up on weei. Folks, what's been going on under the golden dome here and at inches the conversation about the state's efforts in acknowledgee in the first half hour with Senator Randy Brock gonna shift gears now to health and human services, health and welfare the chair of that committee in the Senate is Senator Jimmy Lyons. She is democrat from Chinden county believe actually resident Williston I recall correctly. Senator line. Thanks so much. Joining me this morning. Thank you for having me pleasure to be here. So I thought interesting story about some developments that you've been working on in the legislature this year having to do with Vermont's various, substance abuse issues, everything from alcohol opiates, and they were the in between these things seem to be tackled is individual discrete problems over the years. And it sounds like the legislatures look at trying to take more unified approach. Exactly, you know, if you try to if you keep doing the same thing, and you expect different results, you may not get them. So call the definition of insanity. I think it is. So our committee as committed itself to looking at prevention overall, and we working very closely with the administration, the department of health in particular agency fuel services, and as we look at all the substances that are out there. The misuse of substances. They're addictive we find that is really commonality to how kids might get introduced into those things so alcohol marijuana. Tobacco. All of those things. Have there's some similarities, and the fact that kids are are picking up drinking. If they start drinking before the age of fifteen they're more likely to develop alcohol dependence, if they start using marijuana before the age of around the age of twelve and that leads to there to brain damage for one thing, but also to use overtime that it becomes addictive. And then they're also here when other drugs so overall early introduction means a lifetime of either battling that addiction or maintaining the that addiction. So it's. And we think about it the the commonality in prevention programs that we learned about becomes kind of important. So can we invest in those things that work for all at diction all substance misuse? To me too. Because I think it sounds like getting the more unified view of of alcohol is being one of several addictive substances as opposed to the phrase Easter kind of bugged me people talk about alcohol and drugs alcohol was something over separate over here. And and drugs where things marijuana and cocaine and heroin, and so on, and I guess in one sense in the legal sense. Yeah. Oklahoma over here because it's legal. But but even though in the in the language there was at the station, which probably doesn't alcohol actually have some of the same Texan, the brain is opiates. Well, ainhoa. Alcohol, especially in in utero of fetal alcohol syndrome. Absolutely. And we do see brain changes, regardless of which of these drugs were talking about depends on the amount of use. Of course. So yeah, we see similarities, but the the the critical issue here is that kids are responsive to their social environment. So if you have a social environment that is accepting of tobacco or alcohol or marijuana use. They're more apt to indulge in in in that and test it out so. Once that happens. It's a lifelong it's it could be a lifelong addiction and people, and then people get robbed of some of the things in life that we all value, you know, ability to earn money or to keep the money that they do earn. Ability to do well in an educational environment in all of all things that we might value. It's a tough thing. Unfortunately, I think I think people get into addiction in a way that, you know, people talk about high functioning attics various types, what our alma hall, or or with with other drugs, and what gets lost is the idea that even if you're getting by in life life could be a lot better could save a lot of money. You know, if you heard of the economic argument, but you know, there's there's some data that that we looked at and at the health department has provided for us that I think is really kind of interesting if you. If you have a perception that a substance is not going to be harmful. So you think this is particularly true for marijuana where there's been so much or cannabis when there's there's been so much discussion about adult use of cannabis and recreational use of cannabis and how as harmful to adults will the adult brain is is formed. So it has a different effect in adulthood, but for kids if kids think that cannabis is okay, we're forgetting that childhood development, especially brain development is very susceptible to the effects of THC development continues into one's early twenties from what I understand, right? So between twenty one and twenty five zero sure. So, but but think about that if you think that this isn't going to harm you then you're more apt to try it through. Yeah. And then and then what happens well with the sticking with cannabis for a minute. We could talk about any one of these mid substances at a high level the cannabis today is provides THC at a much higher level than we've seen in the past. So all of a sudden you've got a. Maybe a child trying some of this stuff that has permanent effects on brain development. Let me let me bring in a caller here. I think Fred is on the line from new good morning. Fred. On. Good morning. Mooning? The biggest white elephant in the room is the aging of Vermont in long-term healthshare is going to put the money into the real estate business. Here's why to cost between eight thousand eight hundred ten thousand five hundred dollars a month to stay in a nursing home. The average length of stay is sixteen months. So that means an individual's going to have to come up with a hundred forty one thousand three hundred and sixty dollars for nursing home. And I don't think anybody in Vermont got that kind of money. So wins the money gonna come from. I guess Vermont is going to go into the real estate business does and true. What do you think Senator lions off our topic a little topic? But golly, I think he raises a good question. And if nursing homes are we've been taking testimony, actually, so good question nursing homes are really feeling the pinch for workforce. And then people can't afford to live their lives and in homes at the end of life. So yeah, the big issue what if we go back to substance misuse, and we think about what's happening to us in the state in terms of costs and care. Our state has been investing a significant amount in treatment in recovery. And in later intervention, we have not been investing in prevention. And if you if you invest in prevention, and I'm going to link this to the question. That we just had if you invested prevention, what are you doing? You're keeping people healthy, you're keeping them from spending their money on addictive substances, and because they are healthier, and they they have better prospects in life. Maybe the need for care at the end of their lives is is reduced. We've seen an increase in the number of people who need treatment over the past several years, the tree the treaties for alcohol has gone down not to a little bit. But the the need for treatment for other substances has gone up. So now, we have at least koetter twelve thousand for monitors that we know about who require a high level of care. We drill a little bit on cannabis because there isn't interesting to be there have been let's to legalize decriminalize legalize last year. Go to go to a go to a regulated market now this year, and you've been a supporter of these things, right? Voted for it. And I'll tell you why when chance go ahead. Yeah. Yes right now. Okay. Look look at alcohol tobacco. There are some similarities, I think the high level of THC is by far worse than some of the nicotine that we're seeing kids are using and the same with alcohol, but they are active substances kids can misuse those. And so the regulatory process may help us get a handle on. The content of the of the Maryland how much THC is in there who's selling it whereas being bought and so that. We can I guess the goal is to reduce black market. That would be a good thing. Interesting me, though, that that we have these kind of disparite really almost cross purposes kind of approaches because the one hand, I think the view of people who have longtime supporters of relaxing, anti marijuana laws or v lies marijuana going to commercial market, or whatever have is that that really, you know, there's minimal riskier. It's all about somebody somebody going home from work on a Friday evening enrolling up dooby and putting on the old Grateful Dead album and not driving anywhere. Just kind of hanging out listening to their music and then go to bed, and I understand what is the risk. There is really no huge problem. Right. Getting secondhand smoke China now all of that. So yeah. But this was started the conversation and the health aware welfare committee last year, we saw the cannabis Bill coming forward. And we said there's nothing in here about prevention. How are we going to keep kids from testing out this stuff, you know? So it's the same way without Kahal the same way with tobacco or any other. Legal regulated market. Actually. I mean, right right now, if you're seventeen years old, you can't walk out of the Yankee spirits here on over a main street in my failure by yourself a bottle of gin. Right. And and and and the same theory would apply then you think in marijuana wears now with the current regime, you know, kids can go on and I don't know behind their school or something by by vagabond. It's a start. But there's a whole other component of this. It can't just say we're going to regulate it. And that's the end of that's the end, it'll it'll be prevented his won't access it anymore that that makes zero sense you what what we're looking at is the need for some programs that we can put in place department of health is working with people in the after school programs. We took testimony from people from Chile retook testimony from people in Finland we took testimony from people in Iceland people. Who are have committed themselves to establishing programs that move kids from being behind the barn. Smoking pot few having a hobby or being gauged and a new social environment. So those are the kinds of things that are in the Bill so it, and there are believe it or not there are common ways of approaching all of this all all addictions, so as you can shift the social environment that kids are exposed to you can also shift them away from some of this stuff that can harm them for the rest of their lives. Interesting linguistic hearing the freeze misuse the word misuses, excuse me applied menaces and one of you about that. What can you tell us about that Senator? Well, this is terminal Aji that has developed recently within the community. The I think the counseling community more than anywhere else and the health health department of health the health care community overall public health, and it really does make sense. You know, we talk about misusing drugs that could include binge drinking or using prescription drugs. When. They aren't warranted. So it is the misuse, and you know. Some people continue to say abuse. Some people continue to say. I I have a friend who was a longtime still is let's success now. Feeding back in the seventies. He was a supporter of marijuana legalization early activists in the national organization reform marijuana laws and cetera. And he's dry Easter Condie rail. This issue of people talking about drug abuse all the time and said he said uses not the same thing is abuse. And and and I can sort of understand what he was trying to get out which I had to do with the fact that you know, if you drink a beer, it might refresh you in and feel nice. And you know, that's what people do it's very common activity if you drink ten years, that's probably misuse because. Now, you're drunk, and you're you're not able to function, you know, many of the things that people need to do like drive a car or operate machinery or whatever. And and so I wish I'd thought of this back. Then what what he was saying, why do people always talk about druggies? And I should know that the property property over -nology probably be misuse instead of being is and then and then you can talk about substance use disorder. So you're talking about all drugs and. Each individual courses different. But you can you can do that. Then we circle back to the this consolidation idea. Because there was I saw this Article V dot org the other day where it listed some of the some of the panels that have been created by speak government overtime. I believe is one related alcohol. Another one relating to opiates and other one related to other drugs that and and the idea here seems to be in this legislation that you are involved with to combine all them into this some issues panel exactly we've had we had a tobacco settlement that brought us many millions of dollars to reduce children their use of tobacco. And we have recently. The governor's council on opioid use has been put in place to study that and then we've had alcohol in an uncle, and they department of health we have these three or four different councils and commissions looking at individual drugs. But as I said before if you look at the intervention and treatment for youth, you find that there's. There commonalities. So what we're trying to do is to what we're we have done in the Bill is to combine all of those into a single council, and beyond that something I think is really outstanding. And that is a director prevention now in the secretary of agency of human services office. So here we are. We have a leader in our state who understands the need for prevention for looking at all youth. Not just the kids that are hybris. Not just the kids who are currently, you know, using substances or might be in crisis. You know for maybe going to Woodside or other places? Now, we're looking at all kids, and we're designing programs that will really keep them from becoming addictive. I'll say that. But misusing drugs going forward. So it's it's a neat opportunity. The committee was very excited about doing this. And we worked so closely with the administration department of health, and particular that it it and with the after school program that we have in the state that is also an outstanding program, we're working to build in our parent child center, as so it's it's it's exciting to be at this point. This really all about prevention or is some treatment to comes under this umbrella as well. Okay. Because look at we have we have fairly robust treatment programs when when someone becomes addicted to something or is misusing a substance. We we do have some intervention. So not to say that there will be no intervention. But certainly that. Talk about prevention for young people is is any is any use say marijuana by someone who's eighteen or nineteen years old Vermont down there under the legal age. Right legal ages twenty one and they are in there in that period of late adolescence, or you know, adolescence when they are with their brains are still developing, and it cetera, and they might have, you know, I don't know couple of hits off a pipe or something, right? Is that misuse or is I mean legal? Okay. We'll start with that legal. You know, is it misuse they're going to use it once is that misuse, no. But we don't want is them to get reinforced and continue to use it over time. Yeah. Especially for younger people. And what what are we see we see especially in young folks, the potential for the development of a lowered I q poor learning in school reduction of ability, memorize things, we see psychosis and schizophrenia developing in fact, I've heard some stories so this is not testimony. We took in committee, but I certainly heard stories from people at the college age who have taken substances once and gone into some pretty spiraling psychotic episode. Because we are almost out of time. But I and this is a this came to being tax just a few minutes ago. It says here is what appears to be an increase in mental illness and the need for psychiatric care caused by young people using marijuana. We absolutely are saying co-occuring disorders in our state. Whether it's marijuana. I think most of the ones that we've been talking about and committee have been related to opiate use. However, there's nothing to say that co-occuring disorders like the psychoses. I mentioned are schizophrenia couldn't be attributed to overuse misuse of of cannabis. I wish we had more time to delve into these topics because they certainly are fascinating and important, but we are about a time to the site under. No, you need to get the work on the committee. Senator Ginny lions of chicken county. I think you much joining me this morning. We're gonna go to the top of the hour break here on the day Graham show, WD evidence, CVS news, national correspondence and a couple of minutes and then more from the state house on the second hour this morning. There's comfort in the familiar, but when light presents us with something exciting. We just have to embrace it with so many of our neighbors producing such wonderful products. We just have to show until the world come in and see for yourself the old standbys alongside the new changes. Good. The one thing that never changes is our commitment to making your visit a great experience the warrants store where funky friendly and almost world famous. Newsradio WD FM and AM now back to the day Bram show. Hey, Dave Graham, back with you on Dave Graham, show WD EV FM and AM into our second hour. Usually after our CBS news break at the top of the hour. Ten in the morning, we like to go to one of our one of our national correspondence, I've leave town square. Terry from talk media news is going to be joining us very shortly. And we'll be having a few had a conversation with guests. Interesting. I get an Email from some of these folks before they come on talking about this little bit of what they want talk about it. And here's the isn't isn't tidbit. I gotta ask Tom about a million to do. So since few in Washington to ever play or understand long game. Robert Muller does quote, no more indictments for Muller, unquote. Does not mean, no, more indictments, unquote. It means everyone Muller's existing resides in a quote, presidential pardon proof, unquote prosecutorial district. I gotta ask time. What the heck that means? Because I think it sounds pretty interesting and sounds like maybe there's some others still loose ends of this whole mess. That involves the president is people in. And allegations of wide range of weird, and maybe mis deeds one might say in the course of the two thousand sixteen campaign and cetera. So we do have Tom Terry on the line of us this morning for talk media news. Good morning, Tom. Good morning. Happy Friday just doing a little little intro before you got on the air with us here. I think and I wanted to go right to the last pergram of your Email to me came in early today or late yesterday, much, exactly. He say few in Washington ever play or understand the long game. Robert muller. Does no more indictments for Muller. Does not mean that no more indictments. It means every single one of Muller's existing resides in quote, presidential pardon proof prosecutorial district. Let's pack that a little bit. What is that? No more at for Muller. Does not mean, no more Dayton is. Explain that Reese short, certainly the Colin example, Michael Cohen is a good example that he hadn't off the Colin case to the US attorney's office district New York, they tried calling in prison. Okay. So what sort of Muller dealth bringing die? But he heads over the materials and cases that maybe still need to be further investigated the different two different districts, so far he said cases to southern district of New York each district in New York, you should just JJ LA DC. And and the department of Justice it self has the couple so those are six or seven areas where they're still active parts of the so-called called investigation going on by other investors that investigative FC's. So they could bring the documents that are expected or likely in those respective districts and that also minimize the chances for presidential part because. Because they're not gonna be convicted this federal courts, but they could be convicted in state courts. And when you're convicted state courts, a federal part doesn't apply. Boba? I I would've thought I mean just to take one example, and I'm very interested in this. Because I I I this. I hate me actually a couple of days ago when I saw a report in politico that said they quoted a assistant US attorney would have been working with Muller telling judge in the DC federal court. This is David good ban is the man's name. He's he's as I say assistant US attorneys that he's a federal prosecutor, and he's saying to the judge barrel howl in the DC court that that the grand jury this when meeting pursuant Muller's investigation really panel by Muller. Yes is in his phrase continuing robustly. And I and I said myself how is it that a prosecutor Paksitan and goes. Home when his grand jury is listens. Still meeting. Okay. I can't call that. Specifically on that transferring I don't know the details, but generally speaking graduates team to sit at wait possible indictments from various plus cures. That happens a lot for example in Virginia. I live Virginia now, but in Virginia Easter district, did you there's a grand jury that's often used when a prosecutor has to seek it a bit of somebody that gradually exists. Not just for that prosecutor exist for any potential prosecution of so the Muller. Whatever happens in the aftermath of the official molar Vesta Gatien referring to the district attorney you mentioned federal prosecutor. There's a grand jury sitting in DC it's been panel as gradually not just for the molar case their grand juries that exists just for that a certain purpose as you voted grand juries that exist. On the more general basis. I'm not speaking with legal way with your obviously, you know. That's all prosecutors use case, they need a grand jury. So they don't wait for graduate. It'd be convened the grid. If you get a notice to serve on a court court dirty you make it call to serve on a grand jury whether that specific. Specific investigation or general, gradually seating. Is you don't know you get there? And did did you say that in some of these cases federal prosecutors are prosecutors are investigating? They're putting stuff in front of grand juries, which I assume federal grand juries, and yet these things could be outside the purview of a presidential pardon because they could result in state charges. Correct. That's what I've been told. I get about a legal expert could be all out. But the kitchen is that I wanted to state of New York for Japanese take the case from southern district of New York if they pursue it. In other words, state prosecutors pursue it. And then they go to state court to convict Cohen on so bad as let's say for some the troubled relation, which is New York City on some matters that states, your diction that often falls on side, the range of a presidential part. He can president can pardon for federal crimes, but this is terribly. Stay convicted. But yeah, I I suppose the conviction in the state courts of New York they'd have to go to cover Nicole motive, see whether he wants whoever. Yeah. Overstate whatever. Exactly, okay. About that is all the fictive of the vol- report. I always somewhat, you know, step back on it. Because I think it's only part of the whole investigation into what the Russians may have done during the twenty sixteen election eight I covered based off topic. But is they cover a really, you know, four, Mr. unofficial college and the whole idea of Russian hacking, federal important influence in election, still vivid topic? And so that whole that idea is for governments are able to manipulate our elections, even through the social media. But if relation or like hacking is is a very rowing concerned with the defensive harm another cheese. And that was part of the focus of the investigation. What the Russians have done it. It's sixteen election, and that needs to be resolved. I I think I think you're really onto something there. And in fact, I wanna ask you a question about that. Which is. So if the Russians have is new look government government's tried to influence one another's elections for time. Immemorial the US when Yeltsin was running back in the nineties, the US is now trying to basically influence the outcome of Google took over the governor government changing in in Venezuela right now, you know, so so having those countries interfere with one another's regime changes all the time, it's pretty regular thing. But the reason I wanted to the reason I wanted to kind of pursue this with you a little bit. Tom is just that you have a you have a situation here where where the the government is is this. Oh, Bs are the Russians are excuse me are are allegedly interfering in our in our elections. One of the main jobs at the president. If not Demane job is to defend the United States and its interest against Orrin powers. Right. I mean, that's just very pretty one on one. What the president does it? And this president has been completely silent on the I mean, he could've come out, and he could have been saying from the top of the from the top of the term if it was any Russian meddling in the two thousand sixteen election. You know, we I'm glad I want. I think I won fairly, but we want we want to make sure the game is fair. And and we wanna make sure that there's no no possible complaint of any of any meddling in our elections by foreign power like Russia, and we're gonna take really really aggressive stance on this here the following steps that is president of the United States, Donald Trump and going to impose or ask congress impose cetera in order to make sure that we don't have this kind of thing happening. We we to these that we can replenish it. If it happened in sixteen we make sure it doesn't happen twenty or any future election. Right. That could've. Been they could have been the stance. He might expect that from US president who sees it his democracies under attack just seems like that's that would kind of be a basic thing to do. Right. Well, some would say that. Yep. What is the issue here is he basically he can't feel the can't do that. Because then it would raise questions about the legitimacy of his election is at the problem or what I don't know why he doesn't want to raise that question. Very good point. Or course say those words, it's pretty it's pretty clear that there is compelling research shows at the Russians of inter- interfere in the twenty sixteen election, and what you said about countries interfering election has happened history. But the insidious nature of using the internet. It's not seen as obvious is. I this to try to influence what happens is the way. It's pretty apparent most of the steps that they're doing as opposed to the internet, and she came to divide the country playing divisions within the country and exacerbating through social media other hacky yesterday's form. Totally put it before him brought people together from the CIA that pedagogy private industry. And this issue was. Coming up, and as one of paraphrasing him, somebody said just takes this steals. Our ability to decide our future sets is that the manipulation of the electoral electoral process as well. As plague on divides science already exacerbating them is done to impact the way election turnout's could be let alone him to write hacking Bill action. So to me that isn't national security issue as well that you touch upon any president any congress should be moving to address that. The Pentagon is moving to address the CIA is moving to dress it private industry is trying to address it in the roadway. Why can't the government did I realized depending on the part of the government? I'm talking about congress and the White House. Well. I gotta go with that one. We're out of time. But I. I appreciate. Thank you so much really really Cotin right ahead here with Dave Graham show on WD FM and AM, and I want my I want my next guest Senator Ginette white to strap on the headphones here, and and we will get her on the air very shortly. We normally would take a break at this time. But we're gonna keep that because we're a little behind scheduling who we wanted to keep motoring right along here and Senator white. Thank you. Thank you very much for joining me this morning. You got it very very excellent job. So couple of things you are the chair of the Senate government operations committee, and you have an amendment you're reviewing a couple of amendments. I think in your committee this year, but one is very interesting to me and that relates the slavery. Tell me about that. Well, the way the constitution currently is written. It says that slavery is it doesn't. Actually, say slavery is prohibited. It I mean, it says it, but then it has this little modifier that says after the age of twenty one. And so a lot of people have interpreted that to mean that slavery was approved. If you were under twenty one the history that we've learned belies that. So what what I think that that referred to was in the original constitution. It said men at the age of twenty one and women at the age of eighteen and it was connected. We believed to. Indentured servitude. And in most states indentured servants were actually freed from their in denture men at age thirty so for my was being very progressive here and changing to eighteen four women and twenty one for men so that they would be free of that obligation at earlier age. So we were actually being very progressive about that it did not refer to slavery, and we can't find any. The there was a court case that said that a Bill of sale for slave was not enforceable in Vermont period. So there there is no evidence that there was there's evidence that there was slavery. I mean, that's that's pretty clear, but as we know our constitution sets up the ideal, and what we should be striving for and that these are values, but we really was occurring in this state assure couple of years ago. Yeah, it was. I mean, it was occurring everywhere. But not with the. The blessing of the constitution constitution made it clear that it was not allowed. But people have gotten very exercised about that little term after the age of twenty one. And and if you we spent a lot a ton of time talking about this. So it's hard to explain that to people. And so we've decided to take that term. So the the amendment would would basically just remove the phrase after the age of twenty one or well, there's I mean, it's a little more complicated than that. They're the original amendment as was given to us completely removed any reference to slavery at all. And we didn't like that as a committee because we're very proud of the fact, and we should be proud of the fact that we are the first state that actually outlawed constitute slavery in its constitution. So we should we should acknowledge that and save that. So what we've done is we've reworded a little bit, but left the original language, but taken out that phrase, and I and I do know that sort of a catchphrase a lot of people talk about verse states out, Leslie, we in that was the constitution of seventy seventeen seventy seven. Yeah. Obviously got a new fish in seventeen ninety one. There was that period. Fourteen years there of where we were not yet state independent Republican independent Republic. And although I think this historical dispute about about the degree to which we are actually independent. I think New York, and after might have had other ideas at the time seem to have had other ideas. But we didn't like that. Apparently. Which is why we appointed side just know because we didn't like the judge the New York judges we didn't trust them. So we appointed decide judges, and and very interesting theory that history Vermont status was was in strange state is something that has not very often been replicated, Texas famously was the as the Lone Star state was another -nother one when its own way for while. But I think providing Texas so the only only two that had that that part of. And that I that I don't know. I just remember just people's information. We're having a public hearing next Thursday night on on reactions to the current language post language around the constitutional amendment. You have a couple of other amendments to right as we haven't even taken those up yet. Okay. They all deal with for your terms for governor. Statewide offices, senators house members who terms of office. Yeah. We haven't taken up those yet. It all two years is one that made up your committee, but reproductive free. Came over from the believe the health and welfare they have expected on the Senate floor guest Meeks. And so let me let me go to to a couple of other topics that have been live in color in front of your committee. Recent times in one is one is this idea of of the state ethics commission. Got created last year is it doing well. Does it need changes? What do you think about where we going with that just started taking some testimony? We had a report from them their first year report, which they were supposed to give to us. We they have created a kind of statewide code of ethics, and which is was meant to be an is an umbrella about. These are ideals. This is how we should be acting underneath that different areas of government have more specific codes like the depart the for the employees for state employees. There's much more specific code that. They're supposed to follow for appointed. Statewide offices like in the administration they're supposed to they have a separate code. We have our own code in the Senate and the house. So the way the ethics commission operates is really a funnel to funnel. It's a place for people to a focal point for people to express their concerns. And and have them passed on to do something about the ethics committee will report back to us about the issues that were resolved or weren't resolved. Or where there are. Concerns of of from the public, and then we'll move from there. So far, I have not seen anything that would lead me to believe that we need to expand the authority or the responsibility or the power of the commission given the report that we were given last year. The the the the commission executive director was testifying the other day. I we've his concern is that the complaints to the Commissioner of issues raised at the commission are down because there's a public perception out there that it's relatively toothless on. It was the word. What do you make of that? Well. I don't know. I I don't know if they're down or if there were a lot of. There were a number of them that were passed on last year. We didn't see any reason to suspect that those weren't bell twit in any way, I mean. I guess we need to look at it more. But I'm not convinced that we need to that. We need to go any farther right now. That that maybe these to be weakened in any way or there things that's doing that. It shouldn't be doing one of the things that and it was very clear in the in the original Bill. We thought it was very clear that the advisory opinions were meant to be vice to those of us who are covered five the ethics Pol policies. So I call and I say I have to pick up my mother-in-law in buffalo, can I use my state car? So I call the ethics commission and ask is would that be violation? Does I'm not sure. And if they and they can advise me, they can give me some guidance on that if they get seventeen calls around the use of state cars for personal then they will give an advisory to us that says, you should not use your state car for personal business. The visory was never meant the questions were never meant to come from an outside anybody outside of those covered and the advisory was never meant to be given around that. So we need to make that clear. I don't think that's weakening it that was the way it was intended. Describe the elephant in the room here. Which is this case came at last fall about the governor about the governor. And basically, there was an advisory photo buys opinion from the from an and this was prompted by a complaint raised by an outside group. Vermont public interest research group, they wanted to point out the fact that the governor former owner of a construction company which over the years has gotten a number of state contracts, and as he became governor you decided to eat it today. Estim- self of that ownership. Yes. And so he went to sell off his half of the company. Yes. And was unable to find a customer buyer for that half of the company ended up persuading the other half of the company to essentially take that ownership away from him. But he ends up being the the the mortgage holder effectively Bank for the other half of the company to buy is what was formerly under his name is. As owner of of of the company all of this stuff, you know, very very faxed Pacific with only only one governor in this. But in the in as far as whether that was is a conflict or not or is an ethical violation. I I don't know. But the first of all they should never have accepted that the they they were never authorized to take that complaint. Advisory, sir. We don't do that. Well, it's not to issue an advisory an advisory was meant to go come from. If they if they wanted to file a complaint, then filed a complaint and pass it onto wherever that should go joke. In terms of the governor's conflict. Well, it's very clear in the legislation where the where the where they go. It's a little bit more confusing in the case of the governor becau-, but it it's very clear where complaints go in the legislation. That says this is where you send these complaints. Refreshing. I don't remember right off with where is that? In other words, it whereas you have a let's say it's the secretary of ax. They'd be some outside group has concerned about the behavior of certain agency had a secretary of whatever. And and and the the decide group or citizen, just anybody. Vermont says, I think I think this public visuals behaving ethically who you gonna call. Well, they they're going to refer that to the administration to history. So like secretary of administration or the governor's office. Okay. So they have the code of ethics. They will investigate it. If they don't investigate it than that ethics commission should report back to us that they didn't investigate. And then that's that's how we know. Whether we need to expand the thority really have any. We don't really have any place at sap as designated recipient of those guys that concerns investigator those. Depends on what it is. If it's against a Senate member goes to the Senate ethics commissions the house. It goes to the house if it's campaign, finance it goes to the jeez office is very clear where they go. Senator Janette white. I wanna thank you so much for joining. We'll keep taking testimony. That's probably idea. So thank you so much. Appreciate it. And we'll be talking back in the day. CBS news at the bottom. New England magazine just to water us best general store in Vermont could be the spectacular view from our deck are incredible deli and bakery, a great selection of Vermont autism ah beer in a great selection of wine and our wine shop or is it upstairs, which is brimming with new clothing, jewelry and gifts you'll just have to come in and see for yourself. The warrants store where funky friendly and almost world-famous. Here's day. Back here. The day rap show a WD broadcasting live from the state house in my junior as we like to do on Friday mornings during the lead-safe session. And my next guest is Senator from Addison county Christopher Brady is the chair of the Senate, natural resources and energy committee. The had a quite a number of of important and at times controversial measures in front of that committee this year as having years past and we're gonna get updated on a couple of them in the next few minutes here with Senator right? Thanks so much for joining me Senator, please please come on. And let's start with water because it's something that's been percolating along for years. Now, I get I gather what's going on with our efforts to a cleanup ship lean in our Vermont's waterways and be pay for it. So listeners may remember twenty fifteen we pass for clean water act to build on doing clean water works. Throughout the state every jurisdiction and each year since we've done two things one we're trying to build a bigger stronger program because basically since twenty fifteen we doubled the amount of spending from round numbers from about thirty million a year state dollars to roughly sixty and so we've had a build out our capacity to do that work and this year, we're doing is continuing to refine how do the work. So we try to get the most the best results here. The most bang for the buck and terms of floor putting out and the kind of improvements we wanna see. So that's one piece. That's and that's most of what this Bill. This year's Bill s ninety six is all about it's a better stronger delivery model that works better with a three hundred thirty six partners around the state that do water quality work. But the, you know, the big thing is left out of all that is. Well, how are we going to? How are we going to keep on paying for all this? So in a way to see how like job site, and you have different contractors? You know, the plumbers electricians and roofers our committees job is to put together the best program. We can we did make we originally. I am ideas in the building about how we would pay for it. And we also bought my about how much we ought to spend on it. But, you know, analogy, we're the plumbers and the electrons and the roofers down the hall or finance and appropriations so they're going to we're not going to tell them how to do their job. We had suggestions we'll see how this unfolds in the months ahead. I honestly is very big expense. And I think like many of the biggest expenditures in the legislature. We won't see the answer till the closing weeks of the sessions recall numbers like twenty million a year over twenty five years that would be needed to really implement this. Well, the boost. Over again back to those round numbers. We were spending roughly thirty we need to be up in the neighborhood of fifty to sixty in order to keep pace with our legal requirements for implementation Steve requirements and federal requirements. And so we're we're each year. We're going to be looking at how do we come up with that roughly twenty five million more over what we used to spend? And what are you hearing? Now, what are what what measures are in play or under consideration by the roofers in the electrons? Well, so the appropes probations committee said let's specify range fifty sixty is where they're planning to land. And so far, I think there's informal discussions behind the scenes on what might happen in the revenue side of things. But to be playing I brought forward last year. This a per parcel fee flat fee. Forty dollars per parcel state raises fourteen point four million. It is not been a popular proposal. So we'll we'll see what other proposals emerged forty dollars per per parcel throughout the state, right? Flat fee larger small, and you know, the the underlying mantra only did the clean water act was everybody. And and so what goes hand in hand with that was, you know, everybody in everybody pays well, how do you do that? And one of the I'd say simpler, more direct ways to do that as to say, okay. Everyone lives somewhere on parcel have have each parcel pay feet. Let me ask you sort of a fairness question here. Let's let's say I I have a house on the Black River down in love. Oh, and that. Obviously the Black River does not flow into ship plane, which which I think is the sort of pre MIR subject of concern. And and I might be tempted to say why should I pay the same amount as somebody who has a house on the new ski river in Montpellier, which does Loic Champlain all great question. So I think and it's perfect because a lot of people think well, I'm not part of like shampoo playing bass in. So why should I be involved in this? But we have clean plans formerly called him DL's, total maximum daily lows all over the state. So so everyone's involved in one. And and then the other thing is these are all waters of the state which are held in public trust. So, you know, it's kind of like the way we look at school spending and funding is it's a statewide obligation. And we wanna make sure that we're addressing it everywhere that occurs. Okay. Because we're short. For time here. I love they have more time, but we don't pla- plastics. We're talking about a restriction or ban on plastic bags straws straws etcetera tells what's going on your S one thirteen is actually on the floor today. Eleven thirty. So it's coming right up. It does four things it says, I we're gonna be in single use plastic bags those featherweight bags that we get grocery stores sentiment for monitor's us three hundred thirty two million of them a year. There have a very very low recycling rate. We spent about thirteen point two billion dollars by those things. So they're not free, and they're a problem, and it's a waste of a resource to be creating bags that don't get recycled. And for the most part don't get used. Like if I buy a chicken that Shaw's I bring home, and I put it in my fridge. I wanna wrap that thing in a couple of these featherweight plastic bags than you. Call them the for better bloodbath on the bottom fridge. What's wrong with that? Well, I'd sounds like what's wrong with that is the packaging that has causing plug bath to begin with. But you can still get these bags that we're talking regulating prohibiting are the bags you get at checkout time, some people said, well, how about I have something like chicken or I have a wet head of lettuce wanna more, you know, making your way through the grocery store, so those produce bags that are you would pick up prior to checkout. That's all still fine. But we're talking about are the the generally Brown. Packs. You register we're trying to move people away from this problematic USA, plastic to reusable back. What do we do about straws? Plus, so straws are they're not being it's just that food services. Stablishment won't give you one unless you ask for one. Gotta ask you your strong instead of just automatically having person waitstaff with the put it down in front of you. Right. Okay. Say in in the world five hundred million straws are plastic straws are used the day we have and that they end up there again their single use off to the trash. They go. Weatherization you wanna raise some how much money do we need to raise that? Well, it depends. How ambitious you are? We are ten years ago. We said we wanna whether he's eight thousand homes, low income and non low income homes altogether eighty thousand here we are twenty nineteen where twenty five thousand so we are far far off pace the house just voted through a two cent increase on fuels tax. That would let us pick up the pace by about fifty percent. But when we look into it from an environmental point of view from public health point of view. A well-ventilated whether is home is healthier to live in thin, a leakier home this not well. Okay. I'm I'm struggling pale. My bills. Sarah. And I and and I look at this. And I say to myself some of my next oil delivery is going to be a little bit more because I'm paying additional two sets of top of the already pay. And I don't wanna you know, I'm tired of this. What do you say? Well, the the upside, you know, what we're really trying to help more people. Get their homes weather is in my home weather is actually year, you know, three or whatever I'm done. I've done my duty by somebody else. K? Well, that's a good question. I think probably if you you may well have been helped by programs. We already have that are already been funded whether it was through efficiency from on program or it was through a low low income weatherization program, and this is just spreading that same benefit. So the the two cents has to average homeowners Bill any year about fifteen dollars. So we don't make light of that. But we also know that people can. Save on average five to seven hundred dollars a year. If they go ahead weather is it's a good investment. That's a decent return. Put on fifteen bucks gets dollars back down saying by that. Well, we hope you've already signed up. We would honestly we'd like to double the pace. I mean, that's the argument. You're hearing out there. I wasn't really by should be clear. I wasn't really speaking for myself those. Just sort of uttering the the lines hearing and. Reason, you know. Serious concerns about for months affordability is want. And so there you go. Well, Christopher Bray. I promise that I would get you done here by about ten forty five at ten forty five right now. And so I wanna thank you very much for joining me. It's good catching up with you. Let's do it again man of your word. Thank ready just want every day during let's session. We have somebody who pulls up in the card room this little area that is kind of in between the well, it's really just outside of the Vermont house chamber. It's called the card room because casually table get set up there. Let's leaders play cards when they're not busy doing other stuff. And in what happens during the during the mornings, early afternoons typically around the state houses that groups come in. And they they set up a table, maybe some signs and some literature, and that kind of thing and get themselves a little more known in the building. And and remind folks of what they're up to what their programs are today's card room event is. Actually being held by fishing Vermont a name that some I'm sure to many many ver- monitors occasionally when when group like that comes to invite one of their members up to up up the little ramp here they had stored the cafeteria to the spot where your DV host sits. And and ask them down to join us today. It's Rebecca foster from efficiency Vermont who kindly decided to take a break from the card room over here. Sit on the WD couch outside the cafeteria Rebecca foster, thanks very much for joining me this morning, and so just broaden general question what in the state house today? Today. We're here to talk about how efficiently Vermont is changing and the work that we're doing to server mantras better to get more energy cost savings out to different corners of the state and support the work that our partners are doing with weather's ation agencies and utility programs. Really try and do more for months deliver more value back to the customers that we serve. Is now must be pushing twenty years old. We were started in by the legislature in two thousand so began operations nearly twenty years ago. And in that time, we've been the recipients of of generous six hundred million dollars worth of budget. I'm so every three years we go to the public utility commission. And we said about it with them and set performance goals. I'm happy to say with six hundred million dollars. We've delivered to and a half billion dollars back in terms of energy savings to the state over that time. If your retirement funds doing that. Well. Pays back. That is pretty good shape. I would say if that case but let and let me ask you also you mentioned that that efficiency, Vermont is changing. How is it changing? It's it's a great topic. Especially as we think about the last twenty years where we came from. And where we find ourselves today. So there are few things that we're doing, you know, the first one sticking on that cost topic for a minute is we are changing chips Ryan Nacre solves efficient as possible as an organization, and so that means doing more with less that means trying to reduce the overall energy efficiency rate that people see on their electric bills, and one of the ways that we've done that is really trying to get smarter about how we deliver our services so in twenty eighteen year that just ended we can say that we delivered the savings that we were supposed to and we met our goals while spending two point three million dollars less than are proof budget cap. So those funds. We hope we'll get turned back to the repairs in the form of a lower energy efficiency charge on their bills in the future. So that's one way changing trainer really do everything that we can support for ability in Vermont deliver those energy savings, but do it at a much lower cost another way that we're changing is by collaborating with utilities and others around the states to deliver services together in tandem, and we find that when we do that. We're able to come up with more interesting and compelling projects people one example is the brattleboro retreat in the southern part of the state. They had a unused ice storage facility and working with green Mon power efficiency, Vermont and a small organization called dynamic organics. We were able to help them save twenty thousand dollars a year and their energy costs by making ice. And then storing it so that when the energy is really expensive on a hot summer day. They don't have to run their electric equipment. They run water through the ice that they stored and they made overnight when electric city was cheap. And they're. Using energy in a much different way. And they're basically serving a battery a system so their costs are lower and the rest of the mantras costs are lower. Because now we don't have to buy that expensive energy at the highest prices. I've actually heard of that system before and at Brownsboro retreat there. So if I understand it correctly, essentially, the ideas, we freeze ice, we run refrigeration or freezer overnight to freeze the ice when electric city is cheap. You know in the middle of the night. There's not a lot of use on the grid. So they power rates go down and then on the following day. Let's ninety degrees outside or something on a summer day. And you want some air conditioning instead of running these compressors that make air conditioning for most applications you have this system that I see just runs a pipe through through the ICU made the previous night. Exactly. It sounds pretty pretty cool, and literally and and. And it also it also sounds like something that would be applicable wide range of places. I'm wondering is this. Spreading is our other our other companies and institutions around the state starting to use and could be flippable for homeowners question. I think energy storage is definitely getting a lot of attention. And one of the ways that efficiency remind is plugging into that is by working with our utility partners of whom have storage opportunities under what's called their tier three programs. And that's the way that they're looking to help their customers save energy and take advantage of new energy technologies like storage, we're helping because we have connection to the customers in the state. We go out with our field staff, and we work with the largest customers on a daily basis almost to help them figure out how to save energy how to save on their cost. So we're taking that infrastructure and all of the people who've developed relationships over the years and helping. Support the Tillery programs. And in fact, I think there there are more opportunities especially with something called the flexible load management program on agreement. Power just kick that off and we're working together to get customers involved in that to really duplicate what happened at brattleboro treat for more businesses across the state what we found is going out to customers. We've had almost a hundred percent of the folks we've talked to say, yes, sign me up. I want to do that. They see really big opportunities to save cost to think about energy and a totally different way. So we're excited to be working with partners to bring that sort of new approach to energy usage to the state. What are the savings of the retreat thousand dollars a year? So that's significant. They can plow that back into their services and really deliver more for over mantra soon. Need those services? Obviously, this sounds like it would be applicable to any number of of of other types of settings. I'm wondering as anybody developed a system that would be scaled down enough for for a homeowner homeowner to us air conditioning systems at this point. Those are those are really for larger commercial customers at this point. So businesses institutions like the retreat, but I would expect that might come. You know, there's a lot of interest in storage right now. Some of the options for homeowners are things like the tesla power wall so using batteries, but there are other kinds of mediums like like ice that you could use to store energy over time. So I suspect we're not too far away from those sorts of things being available on a residential scale. A little bit about coal storage heat pumps. They seem to be much the chatter. These days not cold storage. Colclough can't talk to you about those. Yeah. There is a great story. I'm not a technical person. What really interests me is how we we got to the point where they're available. And so that might be an interesting story for your listeners to just understand. What officials here does behind the scenes, many folks view us as the people who give rebates or have information on our website about how to save energy? But for heat pumps. We did a lot of work with the manufacturers of products starting back five years ago when the only pump available for homeowners in Vermont was really one that was more attuned to a mid mid Atlantic kind of climate the products we're being sold here, but they weren't doing well here, they weren't working well with our cold winters. So we saw we saw the opportunity that they present in terms of big energy savings for folks and went to the manufacturers. Listen, we would love to promote this technology, and we need to work in Vermont. So here's what we need from you. We shared with them a specification for performance help them figure out how to meet it. And then once they could we brought it into the state we worked with a whole network of distributors to make sure it was stocked. And carried we work with contractors to make sure they were trained on how to install it, and they knew selling points, and we work with us to mors to make them aware and helped drive the demand for the product. So now, we are in a position where we've got a lot of people taking advantage of heat pump technology, and it's a really nice way to, you know, give people an opportunity to change out there heating systems to something that's much more efficient in really it's going to work. Well for them. Rebekka foster of two. It was by this with out of out of time edition of the show. Thank you very much. That's what it for our show today. Folks, come back, Monday morning o'clock, another dish in the neighboring shows sense radio with their agree.

Senator Vermont marijuana Senator Randy Brock Senate Dave Graham cannabis IT department Robert Muller president US legislature federal government department of health Senate finance committee Tom Terry Montpellier CBS
Turkington, Plato, Rouse? Who is the BTCCs greatest?

The Autosport Podcast

1:10:43 hr | 1 year ago

Turkington, Plato, Rouse? Who is the BTCCs greatest?

"Bundling home and Auto Progressive GonNa finally by a ring for that Gal of Yours Ugo send him my condolences this nice the starlight lounge presents an evening with the progressive box tickling the Ivories he just saved well we know contentiousness this podcast well I guess the place we should start is calling sirkin given it it's his success coupled with me my marvelous sense of humor and I think have only said that because actually there is a certain similarity between between Kevin and Matlin opens this topic is the man with all of the data and the piece of paper Kevin Turner who dashed into this podcast you have also piece of with numbers on you all well we come from a fantastic invasions of the British Touring Car Championship Colin Circuit also joining me is Matt Q. No of course you've not anything with Uber You have your laptop and you are of course at brands hatch having covered BTC this shale Kevin Gripe pointless it doesn't matter and then for what happened to dine comedy is unfortunate but it was incredible way for don't say that I'm wrong they can dougal Mac you that's cute with a k. thank you well like isn't of course took a sensational victory with a late turn around in the race when don cash wins off no one else of course is moving full titles Andy Rouse's the other driver okay so she could have made your own tea or coffee I've already had a lady about happy for more T. But I'm sure you make up for it with your stats with four seventy good opportunity to discuss who is the greatest BTC drive and it's not just between secondhand rows of course on your high stature and joining me fest Four titles in our nine twenty fourteen two thousand eighteen twenty nine McCall's lavender browns was That the stunning turnaround in in the end finales but he was massively up against it wasn't always the other way around Sutton made essentially made up ten places on another another three places they can open a younger slightly more dashing version of can get last week and it was brilliant for tech into win the title the Alabama Matt Camp I thought it was off it was ever offering a chemistry brilliantly win race one Yup an authority look forward to being a small cantankerous persons like I was there and it was brilliant interferes time while many years time to turn into Caffeine nyc eleven in the points race for the first time since whenever it was third meeting I think it was so yeah I thought it was it was all over and it was saddle circumstances he drove the race that was in front of him he didn't try and force the issue will do anything ridiculous it was just yet go for it but with your cap but you've not brought us coffee now ask I was well we'll see you'll message was very unclear to be honest I thought you want to bring the people he's good looking one of the three of his his knee so it's all relative it works well on a podcast for absolutely well they can't listeners Bryce was twenty fifth on the grid and outside I must admit I was watching that race on TV no I was I was quite confident something happening to come through to win it because that's just the kind of thing that happens in these your Andrew Jordan but I think I think cutting the champion this year but I think that also show we talk about qualities of drivers I think ability to get into a rice where you knew he was up against don't see it was very say negative he's very realistic going into it that they basically fell that there was there was no chance by you still got in the car got impatient and fellow had to go shows a good amount of class to do that but in a sprint rice yep I completely agree I think last year and suddenly Ooh chemistries in the late and is in the early GonNa not score any points but he's going to be at the back for as three and behind the standards set by someone like carrying channel is very good at getting us getting drinks cake and also say well I'm sorry to I mean you've been lazing on the safer for several hours waiting for Tori 'cause has measures to bring about performance pirates a say to up to a point is off takes away I'm yet When he needed to he was aw I'm on holiday come in specially for this so it was really have time to get your guilt beverages sorry about that we only we expect this it's no but yeah but he wouldn't have wanted to say say catching the wolf I think the right man won the challenge which is no disrespect to to cash orem one Twenty was was such a tough year personally and I just wanted it to be over I wanted to win the championship on go home you know I never felt that I've won the championship in style you know even in two thousand fourteen I won't after race one but then got taken item reassess style I put my in my notebook Commun- into the weekend that I'm going to win it in style time on you know I've lived up to that so yeah it's I think it's whenever you're not expecting something under happens you know that that means a lot keep his head down consolidate position and just back those points and then like we so so so when he got turned around all at Prins Hutch what are you he can do everything say whether it was maximum Success Palace a score Polo Park some people say Bam WSB quickest but okay so I've always I've always left after three not feeling great about myself so at to actually won the championship in Can do do the best you can do in a given rice and hope he comes to you and I think a lot of drivers in that situation would have overdone or choice in my cup twenty places on the first lap in two thousand nineteen just just win it this year on them you know I I am in the position that everybody else wants to in the car nobody was fired off and the fear perhaps better known more heralded races in the failed that could learn a thing that I very rarely it's a fight it out but he he kept his Coley he kept glossy worked his way past and I think there's a lot to be said to a drive actually who can do that and keep ahead and just and then physically my debris to race to and we had a core healthier office debate about the clash that happened Graham Hill and basically matinee spun to Colin Round take a fourth on China I mean not a mentioned it before the twenty fourteen knock hill drive through the pack from the back to fourth with no scratches only because of that you know that gives me the opportunity to win with West I would've won four four so you know of course I'm I'm really price you know I'm proud of you know that that I've been able to deliver the teams for the championships for think winning championships for sure rewards that hard work but I don't feel any dern inside you just feel like the same person well you've driven Jim called a season you said on occasions that you've you've looked to gt racing a think staying in touring causes something you say as the underpinning the joint my successful driver ever in the historian Koch I'm ships I can use of put into perspective what your contribution has been to this jump ship or how it feels all turned around and then we're starting to las twenty fifth he can develop a pocket feeney's it can put the cards where it needs to be on pull off these bree you know I I just feel like somebody who's who's come on top today and then you know all along that's what I've been trying to cheer this is just being number one drove a good race kept it clean there's a point where he was behind commish ran for laps he could have tapped him off pitch for professional foul and then that would have left it to the to ws for the same on pride for a new for for my family I know how hard we work at this on them you know anyone say NASA footage absolutely who who can blame him so you're able to Sean get him to put into context how he feels about his place among the legends that was the toughest typically you have to force yourself to consider yourself one of the greats of the series I don't feel like a hero you know at it's harder every time you can see from today it's so easily could have been done commerce go numerous jump in or around the Jordan and the margins are so so fine career say the next question is come titles five six seven whatever come your way so you can stop into show her south as undeniably that ranks alongside BTC so Yeah you know there's been some amazing finals before but you know for me personally that's Russia you've done it would tell you lots to are you ever going to do it in a new conventional almost pouring flushing boring the does not is not a word victory so called the still shots at this time but you're able to speak to him about it puts him what it means is because they were shouting so much if takes the sizable car so yeah he's called the pace and he's got the brains as well so it's quite a potent combination off think he's long since been underrated actually in the way that he can on on that champion's podium knows that one special moment that that means so much and then yeah yeah I'm just the still if I yeah I I think class is probably the right the right word actually should we hear from him McHugh you spoke to coincide Kingston I think this is an Arrow so often championships so you know I take the gory I'm the man that ties with Andy Rice but it's a huge network of people has elevated Metoo to that position that's that's you know I could never replicate this you know I don't think you have to try really hard to hype up being you know I've I've been in BTC for For a long time now but but with West one of the great teams in West Grit People like like Dick Balance and another BTC final thus you know what could've went anyone of three whereas you know right onto Leeann so itself that you may very rarely gets himself into trouble but he does over tight peewee just very good at picking these monument I think he's one of the cleanest races on the grades title Harshek has moved on after one year anyone see ray says he couldn't match up to me the hatches a really tricky Dr Muller was great at getting the best out of which which didn't go well for him it's interesting remember interviewing in Harrison the boss triple I`ts probably the following year and he said that perhaps they judged Turkington it's a really start to come of age as a driver I think you see that in the modernized Utah calls caught in the quick guys all quick from the moment they arrived so it's you know I I don't target anymore you know of course when I start twenty twenty one to beat something again I I I just WanNa go party night well the final question is in two thousand nine you want to jump ship luster seat Lusty WanNa jump ship with only one race win Arain fiestas and won the title only had a few good results and he got eventually that Sir that chance to drive for triple eight in the in the Astra Sport Hatch Open trade the most successful the my trophies untorn 'cause yeah I don't know it's new BTC GETS WITH ISRAEL IT takes a long time I think to work out how to put a championship challenge together even got the pace and I think calling went to that process I think Gordon with modern Boden towing corriere the halt thing is is Cape banking the points in being consistent and and Collins really worked it out and the kind of up to that point if I like he was on the up but then it was kind of experience they're moving about w SA that allowed into competitive but it was possible to do that but if you're if you're the best car and drove a package in BTC say you're gonNA come out the season best with half a dozen wins probably even really fantastic fulltime with with dynamics rather than he briefly turned up McKee carstairs earlier but yeah he involved in a lot of scraping wasn't popular with Sutton had six and he's still he's still converted absolutely agree with that but it's it's phenomenally difficult to win that championship isn't because of the three Rice format the success the schools against the team mates for that for three the jobs we're GONNA be talking about and Colin loss to his his teammates in the first he wanted to title but with only one race where he did his business by consistently scoring solid points whereas this year he so shied ballast it's not a championship you can go out and dominate in the conventional sense you call Pretoria you could go on with nine races in the season potentially doc Garmisch being an example biggs is gonNa make was really good and Shelton he comes quick pretty much driveway took him a long time to costs involved in a lot of I kind of divide is BTC career into in the way that you would normally expect had a period where he was out of it but there's almost the period where what he was all car since then since he joined our guy with the Angie's at two thousand six he has beaten his teammates every single season with one exception which is in two thousand through that process you could say one of the things you could say about comedy she's that he's been quick for him yeah he's into his second season he's basically falling for the championship I think probably in life we also have heroin but very fear as half the platforms beyonce ago in sort of compare ourselves directly to them whereas now you sit here is updating Bam all vw against Jason Plato and perhaps more interesting which we think we have to mention he has never been beaten eighteen dynamics and matinee on that side perhaps helps speed that prices up a bit and I'll see sheds having left the team at high high level as well but yeah I think you see that with also evaluate these jobs because on the one hand there's more races than they used to be so this is why right we all right we'll see people running up quite big victory tallies but at the same time is now today but I think that that calmness in that consistency in a eliminating mistakes is absolutely critical to it and that's what he does to the point where he could win the championship loss Jan twenty I don't think he really yeah I think they were Hoffa dozen calls that could have could potentially on that championship but he was the one that did he had one would drive a front wheel drive racer he was one of the best thing he is the rebel drive racer of of the end. GTC Area really yeah so it's interesting we're looking at across he has got a lovely and heading into the finale under Jordan his teammate was trying to stay up in-house rivalry but as it transpired it's it was more about dynamic between him and chemistry did the the new drive in an economy with the team Homey kitten which is basically a second West Surrey racing team in the the M. G. S. Gareth Howell both quit young drivers because he'd been yeah well he seems to have the respect of his peers as well and that does help you because if there's a point where a championship at stake and sometimes enrich your car championship by a teammate. In a rebel drive car and that includes having Jason the following year when they switched to Subarea he turned the tables he I think I think aliens are very well driving and so in causes spam ws a lot as well see the seaver as well so I guess has advantage over someone like place over that it payback so doing it without close I think does help you caught a law yes I agree with that he's Tum on the original money enemies out than discounts over I'm just glad it's over you know we as its aim one get stuff from from Cullen he's interesting joy for because all tongs when people will be cooperative particular when someone's coming through the field live at this point if you round people up in the past they can they can make difficult view just a bit of in his favor stop bringing some of the other drivers now and talk a bit about Jason Plato of course he did win the the final round the made him the oldest btc fat went you might come out with only a few understanding that is kind of that being banged kind of force and Fitz here and they're really they're the bedrock of fuel the drive on the great all less cooperative because they've got history and calling doesn't really have history with with anyone which for someone who's been around that long one as much as he has much harder to win them so you might have had twelve races and back in the day you could realistically one-sixth of them now you winning six thirty probably it's probably harder to wants a cost Radi beat him in I four and I five is saying von Miller who many people regard is one of the best touring car drive set in recent years in the Konovalov rule frustration there's he saw it with with the situation so yeah I think we've definitely seen now drivers in the past going into season finale and the this how you know they've got the call taught stop slide chip on his shoulder approach to the BMW is not directed at the drivers specifically name essays but he has to be in this conversation share volume of victories doesn't end on we have seen as well particularly as as he's she's the talking point not so aggression of NATO how much I got on whereas it seems to be respect towards Turkington I'd say the I think chemistry Oh campaigns or tea and tobacco your point about that being the sort of watershed moment if you like when he got back into dollars are sort of the the t your experience some really outstanding performances from from placer yeah one of the things I did look up beforehand was if you date the championship own wins who's one of the most Yup Otis history winner per torn Colorado's pretty remarkable fifty so now everybody knows how good place has been in the BTC ninety that sign it was Adopt singer a little bit more cernan saloon terms of those schools eat rice we'll drive in the in in single states but it's it's what makes it very very different seven wins which is obsolete sensational ninety forty five only when Zoya on a we know how could play is just the titles for Plato a hell of a lot of lose lose a couple I think he'd go down to one definite and another possible but I think that probably that does really demonstrate just how long Jason's first full season scarf out in two thousand and so much click the guy with how he came in with Dynamex for handful five my sex race one yeah in the season which is more problematic with foreign cars than anything else because of the success ballast and all the rest of it it is much more complicated than that but if you did give it to me go with most wins then Jason would be a seven time champion with two others that would have to be decided on countback and then I'll say it depends seconds or powells or whatever it is and calling but actually sure one to be Tom Paine on on that will be the the goal but you know I think you just have to enjoy the moment that the pleasure for me is the Subaru in certain who another champion so how long he's been around that's an awful lot of teammates that he podcast it's a plug for ASCA Jason Plato pit and to get it back on store and get some disparaging now with the exception of two thousand eighteen and Jason Plato Matinee whenever they're together even now you may be something to help me get a call in anyone so I think that that that does work in his every season he's been in his horn he's he's one on he left it so pretty late this is into the final race of the season but yeah he's been almost continuously president not quite there was some glittering a glittering appearances and the McKee every time he's on the is a class act in the car he's a great joy you know he's he's annoy scout the Kaaba he ultimately is not memorable in that same way whereas Plato's got this quick peddler and then the following year. Mg Anthony Reid and Warren he's finished ahead in the championship Gallery Experience Spiritual Anthony River expenses thing won't use quicken these these in front of the stewards again is because he's competitive again that's that's good to say I think we'll get onto so like you say he's an impact but in terms of what Plato is done he's elementary these first two years in certain township if all Mueller not bad no seeded he did beat in the following the follow Neil that was controversial call in I have to say if you're putting him up against say Turkington this greatest obey here's got to star quality that's well beyond what what's I'd say Colin Turkington he's it does give him a Saudi broader experience he steps into that that previous era shall we say and the only drives the beaten him in the same team there's in my all UH thank you because casualty insurance company and affiliates discounts not available in all states or situations in a competitive force in store and he has to be part of the debate and yet ninety seven wins I mean that is that's impressive he won in the Super Tori. Yeah I'll have played the enemy for because it's got sponsorship you know look at the blue chip names he's bought into that police in manufatures by himself you know so so his his he is a household name whether you like him or or late eastern as we run a feature in when we did the celebration of the sixtieth on the best rate and he said is incredibly dramatic obser- anyone wanted to say I call him when they wanted to see cash in the war the end it was it was a size will impact it was yeah but the other two solution not to go to be go ahead of his contribution to the championship has been massive and for us young lads gone up he was he was the one to watch an aside or the Australia huge character he does play up his TV personality sector that you know that these are things that it's not necessarily ron doesn't have them but it does front wheel drive car and bike back winning again and as he said he he has made some mistakes this year in fact he's been hold back in Mary came in in ninety-seven with Williams couple wins in his first year so he's I mean you kind of expect it to spin the have been butts is coming to the conversation in terms of their wider appeal and impact but I think it depends what the conversation as if you're talking about this almost greatest bridgestone coffee okay so most important people in the history of it then Josh knees absolutely right out there and wellhead colored I mean a lot a lot but he doesn't have the charisma base is so you know they have history there is more than just a it was more than just a case of bottling or squabbling over position they touched then I touched again and then once more and it was crazy so like almost just let it lie because this is it's inevitable what's going to happen here and sure enough saw the charge and Plato Jason Chevrolet Cruze Ludicrous and he should have been championed a cantor so that would mean three and you only need to hear needs to it's a bit louder Fernando Alonzo situation. John was getting better treatment his anger is probably more direct to the team staff son by proxy is is involved in that a handful of points here or there and you'd be looking at champships instead of to always remember a performance and losing calls was it see thousand nine at the end of the Ah the whole season you you'd win quite quite easily and just just that's when he did that taking something of of not getting involved in scripts I think he has got much better online and regulation boy in the at the end of the green flag lap you have to pull up in your group box but they can be no amount of the car overstepping overstepping the mark he did that there's a wonderful last lot with him and Matt Neal say which is absent and that just because it was just that that was kind of Paik Needle yes hi to yes he has but he still has his moment so sure Mac to what those intimate remember looking at There's somebody put together a montage of Matt Neal Jason Plato Vice and he's not an inexperienced drive by by any means you know the Irish eliminate straightaway I have a NATO Jason Ovalles the details are quite discreet. He's pretty clear that his time of him it wasn't was not harmonious she's and it went through them one by one to pick out who I thought was at full and it was Jason Eighty percent of the time that was a wonderful when I was younger there are several mine he was robbed at the two thousand eleven championship on Sunday Matinee on fans but the disparity the turbo versus Ah Jason's gone through with a chance we'd have to say sites I had too many times is when I was covering when he had scrapes that didn't need to have but then he has been on lucky the firing someone straight off the road is not really even in Toronto nothing the difference between Choline and Jason There is that calling can get the move done without overstepping the bat whereas Jason has done on many occasions yeah that was a couple of issues with the where you get the impression that the mentality's you're not coming by because I'm just bottling Silverstone in race two I think can him coming Gruden thome Ingram and Tom Wolfe and Oh tried to take you to other outgun into Brooklyn brilliant sideways causing stuff just didn't get it done I think he's coming but to be fair you we've he's not speak of his career and he's on a gradual how many guys on Fox News but there is good in some ways it's particularly with the incident you know it's interesting to see that because it means he is bucket a shot and he's he's as competitive as ever when he was and quit what he's Topol we gradu- decline and then you can compare their careers a bit more fully so it is a little bit tricky today before calling stories entirely finished took him off he got dumb bunny steered say you'd have to outline he was at fault I'm an as a couple of times as well say new for twenty nine teen not stronger than I think it's much closer because Colin has fundamentally to convert a lot more of his chances. Yeah Tom Terry off my head how many he's he's but yeah this is the fire is still dire and he has done wow this season is six and a table of reverse grades and things like that but I think it's two thousand dollars the browns have I'm thinking of just and you just looked thought always allow stages if you always in the beginning calling probably isn't places but we don't know how to contain we'll finish really do sort of Jackie Stewart Nick Rossborough style as in the Chevy at brands hatch when you won all three races didn't quite win the title solid technicals with Matt and just driving with such class I I think it's come back to the topic about the wider impacts Plato did help the BTC through some very bad times and the post super touring it's first light Jason has lost a bit of an edge there have been a few times this year are Tho a Jason from maybe fall IV's guy maybe ten years ago I would've neild away know something the person with the on a more one-to-one basis with some of the bigger issue is very different embarrassing if you're talking about just the thus far isn't it yeah you can really really al Qaeda I mean maybe at this point we should bringing matinee until about him and the reason I don't call it happiness legally what role he had to play for the championship as as well which I think is a is part of the equation when you're talking about greatness and the impact they've had yeah and and I think he actually to his credit he I mean he knew he knew the benefit Sanjiv him personally interns getting shipping getting interesting but I think he did also you could see season in great health at the moment and place has contributed to that with what he's done over the over the past over the past twenty years at that depends on how you're judging draws those regulations will now I'm quite serious to that sort of thing even with touring cars you can yeah the robins rice not quite up there in this debate bar he's worthy of men of mentioned because of the Plato new rivalry has helped the challenge is you say three some difficult times that's right and so Jason has got ninety seven fewer rights is a much better strike rate and Collins I bet destroyed rate as well one in seventy five eighty three eighty four eighty five andy rouse has to be in this debate doesn't very a very different driver I guess another set of criteria you see two thousand kind of relaunched the BTC touring rex they repair that there was some very very shaky years that were there wasn't much star quality in needed he's well we might come back to him we'll wrap of some of the other drivers at the end but you mentioned you mentioned straight rights there and some andy rouse hope see has comfortably it's kind of almost even more important Jason really through repaired where it was grabbing the hours five hundred's which disappeared everyone he kind of brings into things yeah he's almost a different different era again isn't it I think if you look at the impact oval the championship then rows equal site you go to the guy he's still he's still fast on Jesse's remarkable it as I think actually when we compare these two really comparing lot for like at the moment because I think passively Sidoti the two that stood out while nights at Snetterton in he was leading the rising cope I sought to oversee what is what isn't it I guess he's biggest trump card over the Pretty much everyone else sees his engineering you know he he and yeah I would talk to them more than twenty as off today they came into the chairmanship yes any well we'll Matt Neal terance longevity police are dining he gets caught as much out of the kid as Jason did his peacful colonies now while strikes for example Matt started more destroy right of the three big drive for told about one in four of course full titles on top of that five class titles sixty wins in total I also think that format win the challenge record each time have slot technical advantage which is not the plenty of Dr emerge raising history of that's been sure about but that's why for me was able to keep himself with technical volunteers through some of this period that is impossible now because of the Njit surrogacy regulations wherever damage says about the BMW. The gap is still talks about you know and of course he was involved in the formation of the rose for super touring as well so really important on that score Money thing he was he prices than anyone else in British touring car history and he's on sixty something wins sixty one that sounds about six rows as night yeah it was almost laughably faster in a straight line needs T. R. S. five hundred supposedly the same car Seipei was sideways because he needs still miniscule whereas I remember doing pace on the nineteen ninety seven season when they are Saunders bowing towards the end and you ask them do all the season because he's doing motor because when he did turn up his average qualifying margin over the next best with over a second well a second covers the entire field now so it's a completely different scenario really considering cars and winning in the in the mid seventies and still I will to hold his own in the early days of of the two liter subduing air that's that's long term and as you say the rouse co is even quicker down the strikes I mean running all sorts of based in clever stuff but actually Steve Cyprus really annoyed about that race because I asked him about this someone brings so much more to the table but I think if you it's a fine to wait a traitor raceway all things are equalized you take each of those steer and if you and he mentioned an instant which are hadn't noticed on the first year but when I went back and check dis Roy on on the laws that when he's got ahead coming out of surtees say what rouse today with as well was a much wider range of machinery enzymes or he's winning Capris in Dolemite's sprints us aw in rows facing somebody's insurgents independents rolled into one and in fact in that period of broad speed and the dollar might spin he was kind of developing the car and running and doing his job and the last thing on the list was getting the thing and drive it wasn't it which is a very very different well to Turkington doing so again couldn't country saying and Hick voice rouse coming along he he had a he had a trick engine with with abuses and experimental engine for that race but you know to catch up with Rousey out to just pin open throat who is not easy kate but yet Raus Raus put him in position by having a technical advantage had some pretty trick bits on agree pie was I mean some of the stories they were getting away with the college of just fantastic than many of them on principal or mentionable but at that stage so in terms just the broad -ness of what he was doing that's just a phenomenal range and if he what if you watch footage from Alfa Romeo machinery rice he was still winning and super touring era for toy seren ABC's final season the BTC ninety four the Monday of course he ran that project as well Andy's loaning him up to guy pass down the hill aback mock oh he's having some weird moment on the grass sipe is coming down here when he's off did you knew was done is there's no point bilking because he'd picky and that to me is more of the Turkington type thing of waited trees and he's and he's gone there's none of this isn't it and the nature of the racing was very different obviously totally alien world world of success ballast and the form balancing and that kind of thing that you have in later years but elite I it was a title Contender Roy Star Super Touring certainly speaks well event doesn't it yeah and just it's teammate. They now little bit more from the seventies and he spells out of the way you have to draw those cars you know the nature of the ties setris so so different than the fact that he was still able to be competitive enough in the him in a teammates one in the malls Gordon Spice who was third all I praise and Ralph was the the incoming guy could in the rousey trashing score often he was the only guy and his team or had teammates becoming analogy there wasn't as consistent is now but the era there were three drivers but for him you know a young eighty put pretty much in charge of the broad speed operation united he's my skull driver hair talks about the importance one of them who was a champion of one and then we should have been that's not that's not too short either not sir and it's it's also that thing of different times nudging an engine off now okay might say were they torn car racing wasn't as close and especially if you could just turn the post blow by pressure is different a lapa bring some summer professionalism to remember on my older that so it's not that opened documentary they did I see years ago showed him a little thing bryce incredible thinking about excuse as he saw echo but one point he did make vandieres she was did say when when rows made to move and down the one day this is going to go other than that I think I'm paraphrasing the words used vast broadcasting exactly yeah and he he lifted and he said the way you had to go and rice and win in the seventies just was a little bit different I think it was more amateur wasn't it ultimately in terms the way it's done but he'll say that so you know he he was one of those guys who had kind of three sixty degree view of race driving and engineering and this kind of thing so it's it's kind of that live is an Ip can put them in a routes is GonNa be the quickest to them is no draw their own ear is on I I mean to pick up Matt's point I mean did the Eggenberger works for team but went back there is a call you can't call it in devoid who is he's having some bizarre coming down the hill and cyber said he wasn't brave enough in lifted so fantastic thirty seconds ahead of third place in that way so yeah yeah I feel that we should mention that it was called joins because he matt Jamesy here he pointed out that it was called third in that race but but we should we should is no if he hadn't been there I was just GonNa getting a bright lights and the record of one the rice but by lifting oversea and you had a run on him now is running and then pull rattus each both the die so if you think that's a span of the bikes twenty years to been beaten by three drivers ridiculous idiosyncratic class system although there are also many ladders get supporters of there are very good very good or no it felt quick tournament sold you okay thank you I thought I thought I'm live I'm Liden fit thing for him he'd been it actually another championship so you're doing follows there and he was roped of several talks because I do regard as being yep I was watching has spent time the one thousand nine hundred eighty eight race bruns Hudson brilliant is amazing between between Rowson Sapien. Mari will is an iphone comparison you kind of comparing pickets perhaps the driver you might think quicker yeah I think that's fair and actually if you look at the winds only guy but he didn't win the challenge because he kept losing to people in the lower class so four championships as easing injustice to rouse to is an injustice Jason just say that day in the form of Made an Paul I knew excellent sewer slope alliston quicker ballast yes okay and he has one rice if Dr Machinery and I think he's more convincing as a front wheel drive drunk drivers and Jason has been a real drive car and we we done okay so now on your on your point on adaptability I think that's fair you know five under bret who was power so one hundred is very different to the T. things one helps rouse and it's something that always slightly undermined Volkswagen's period of dominance in WRC is they only one free one at this point and Collins Don Welzer he start right is very good of course rouse we should say Wells Fargo right horsepower touring causes well he's not racist but it has driven a BMW now commission say he had a substantial palace in so much evolution in the way the way things have worked so it comes down to this thing I guess of Waltz each is doing in that context shall we like going with some wireless companies but travel wireless gives you control get unlimited talk and text America's best four G Lt Network starting at twenty dollars a month no contracts Las- unlimited she tends to work what would success policy set was Donna suspension but again it's it's the difficulty of comparing these these kinds of areas because even though those championed by then and actually did did beat him in one thousand nine hundred eighty between eighty two will hoy ninety in the White Guy Santon is if you look at the field now we're we're making a Jake Robson Siping thirty seconds ahead of cow bones if you look at torn 'cause now Susan the air wear that much the calls issue in a mini they were ray will drive cars I actually calling scores quite well there are I think in the modern context I think carryover data with active service. That's cool how'd you get my cockpit this is your wake-up call people the new track phone wireless now you're in control see terms and conditions attraction a regulations as as much as a whitewash with Asia where the pilot was once an an when regulations change or and Mideast who they went delegating qualifying twenty-five cars qualified within a second say to extract that pace especially when he's got the full payload or success by us to find that not even a tent hundreds of a second they read team up thought that's extraordinary and that success really hurt in theory really hurts you then because if everyone is that close in the balance Costatini bye excuse me captain this your wakeup call from the new track phone wireless what's that now what if you had to fly this plane while sitting back in the cabinet I wouldn't have any control while that's what auto sprint on the on the other hand Turkington has probably shown the the only thing he needs to do now to enhance your reputation really used to go in the front friends you'll suddenly civil rights back when you consider how maximum ballots seventy woking was reading season movie from affiliates guy that some 'cause across Larry three drivers you're covering all the way back to the early seventies really there's a brief discontinuity teens stopping place I starting but it's only a few years so dot com the full we kind of try and come up with a conclusion on this should we should we throw in some inaugural mentioned have always in trouble for doing this and he he also gained a couple of early on in his career that but then lost it to the end the ourselves winning the until graphic with the guys at comatose yeah he was the hours with your with your top tennis and you mentioned Matt Neal Great Servants The BTC Cults Occult figure of see that famous independent when it's dawning when I was covering the BTC CNC thousand and five on his first title in the Dynamics Integra and that was a very popular moment simply because it was stories nannies go very similar sort of career in that respect to Jason but just for me just not quite as good not quite as much of a big figure for attention not quite as good under suffered without Gordon shut and he'll get up Friday his name into the ring as as one of one of the greats if you like but the mindset Senate living room until turn awaited steering wheel effectively just to build up some strengthen that kind of thing with Vitesse walk in the in the sun and the three time champion so great competitor certainly yeah he's been part of the story Dr Reno's got more titles how you feel you've you've covered more towards the end of his career this is in a like maybe down and out he can bike in a really good result oversee with a some Controversy I incident we take into an brands they try for your engine nine eleven and now he's in front front engine eight nine he has he has been thoroughly beaten by his team I think the development of the Cateano Matt is you know sometimes has a bit of roaring from the camera and I've I've actually been banned from owning before but I still think fundamentally the the the underdog he's fundamentally Nice Guy He's my you know he's not the controversial sort of figure that Jason is is that lovely it is about a hairpin trounce by his teammate Commish Commissions lightning-quick Commerce this is his day job in reverse isn't the easiest to re look at you have an one Copa it's about C. Kriss haul jets in the In the Toyota in a win Percy was very very quick drive and often a a decent guy yeah these things do sometimes but I got in Chattanooga triple champion that's been the mentioned that there's a lot of guys who've won a few titles he put himself in second place on a tie Gumbo and last year it was quite fitting in a way that he won the diamond W. Snetterton race to celebrate again Montenero oversee is still cutting it because he's he's agreed to what will be his touring 'cause next season on every time he does is best in the very next meeting he's done His grace as incredible on Jefferson but he sees fifty two as well so remarkable what's waste meltzer and it was a it was a auto yeah and I'm sure there's some people particularly north of the border who is shouting Jim Clark as at the moment as well without a slightly different debate ah former champion five hundred winner who had fun very effectively untorn causes not quite the same I know he's not the title is but I can't not worship the grounds exceeded every time it looks like it's just off the boat by headlong result Oh yeah I will admit the eye on at least one probably more occasions I have written probably

Matt Neal Jason Plato Colin Turkington Kevin Turner Jordan West Surrey Ugo Jason Eighty M. G. S. Gareth Howell Matt Neal Mg Anthony Reid Jason Chevrolet BMW Fox News bridgestone Jason Ovalles Volkswagen Matlin manufatures Tom Terry Plato
The Vermont Antique and Classic Car Meet

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:24:22 hr | 1 year ago

The Vermont Antique and Classic Car Meet

"From radio vermont it's the dave ramsey show on w._d. It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most of you now. Here's your host dave graham good morning. I have to be with you this morning. Because <hes> fraud special broadcast this morning from barfield in waterbury these sight of the sixty second annual vermont antique and classic car show starts this morning and extends all weekend a lot of exciting events coming up connected with it and then it's going to be a lot of fun here. I think there's gonna be quite a crowd and <hes> certainly getting kicked off this morning with some beautiful the weather here. It was a little dicey overnight. I woke up in the moonlight. Torrential rains over there in montpellier where i lived and i was thinking to myself. Oh we're in trouble here. Not really a cat over here this morning. By on on the drive over the fog was lifting the sun's coming out and boy. It's out now it's absolute blue sky and few white puffy clouds and it's gonna be terrific so i am <hes> really excited also to welcome a whole series of guests this morning antique car car owners and enthusiasts <hes> these folks are coming from all over the northeast some from across canada <hes> and and they are coming here to the far barfield in water rates just west of watery this event in its first for most of its first sixty two years has been held in stow last year it moved to waterbury for the first time and and <hes> the <hes> location here at far field just west of the village of waterbury on route two is getting rave reviews from everyone involved and so that's exciting as well and and i want to introduce my first guest this morning <hes> bob chase is co chair of the <hes> the event here the antique and classic car show and <hes> bob <hes> welcome to the program so glad thank you yeah. It's so tell me <hes> first of all i i. I think i'm gonna do with everybody. I'm going to ask you. What kind of an antique car do you have have have a forty one dodge military pickup. Wow that is <hes>. I saw service. I'm guessing in world war. Two yes early very early will were to it looks kind of like a civilian cab in the front but with flat tenders and in forty two eighteen to the more traditional <hes> three quarter time dodge i see and and this car rather this this military pickup up truck. I guess it is was a <hes>. <hes> was stationed aware in the ward. You know i really don't know i think it probably ended up stateside. I <hes> it <hes> originally <hes> was out of the new york new jersey area. I believe and you know how many of these particular vehicles are still rolling around out there. There aren't a lot of them because it was pretty much a one year model <hes> <hes> they went to <hes> heavier truck or next year. They found the frames for a little light for a lot of stuff. <hes> are they. I used them as troop. Carriers are they have full bound seats in the back and <hes> how many how many troops would they ed. How many soldiers could get squeezing vehicles. You could probably get eight in the back okay and <hes> so these would be actually deployed in battle. I mean would they be sent out onto the front or how would they operate. They might be but <hes> more than likely they'd be carrying some supplies and some some personnel <hes> and i i would think that going right into the battle. You'd want to a more heavily armed. This isn't particularly heavily armored right now. This is <hes> thin-skinned regular chart. It does sit very high his four-wheel-drive and <hes> they will really even in two wheel drive. It'll go through an amazing amount of mud and and everything so have you had it out four wheel and in the deep well not not really the <hes> eight seats fixed up enough so right now those yeah. I don't do that you after all pushing what eighty years old now you want to treat it generally right yes. I think most eighty year olds would appreciate that. I'm not quite there myself yet but i suspect by the time i'm in my late seventies. I'm gonna be asking for light duty. Yeah i don't know where where are you from. I'm from vermont and <hes> well. What do you think that's actually an interesting question then for you <hes> you you obviously you've been around this car show. If you're vice or your co chair for quite a while and <hes> it was previously in your town now it's in waterbury. What do you think about the move. I think it's a good move actually <hes> our lives apprehensive and perhaps more apprehensive than many people <hes> but it was voted through to try this and i said well. I want to be on board and do it. <hes> and it's <hes> uh bigger flatter and drier your bigger flatter and drier. That's those those sound like all good things where something like an antique and classic car show and and <hes> you know i i i think actually it's a little more convenient for most of the people attending because it's right off of interstate eighty nine as opposed to having to drive up. Yes yes twenty minutes. It's up <hes> up route one hundred not that's really hard. It's also the owner of the field is done a great job <hes> virtually manicuring during the ground he moses essentially like a long yeah all summer it. It is like a long out here so it's a beautiful place to display <hes> vehicles and yes it is it is spectacular out here so <hes> tell me about your. How long have you been holding this title of of co chair of the of the event here since two thousand five wow so you're getting to be a veteran veteran and that job and <hes> how has the event changed over that time. Has it grown or they're more participants downward. Andy's it is kind ended grown gotten a little smaller. It fluctuates abet <hes> consistently. We run anywhere from from six to seven hundred cars it. It varies a little bit career at a really really high point. I think we're up to eight or nine nine hundred cars. <hes> i think a lot of there's a lot of things to do out there. Now and <hes> people are more conscious of their time and everything so but we're holding steady <hes> and there's a big interest yeah it is interesting to me that the <hes> antique and classic cars <hes> seemed to be something that <hes> maintain interest over time. I mean it's not it's not it's not a kind of thing that goes in and out of fashion is it because <hes> these are all cars that have to be twenty five years old or older correct that is correct so the newest car is here. We are gonna be <hes> from nineteen ninety four. I guess this year that is correct and <hes> so every every year the <hes> the class may be may may change engine expand a little bit because you have those those news entries that are now eligible right now granted. We don't have many ninety nineteen ninety four's <hes> i know of move at least two that are registered <hes> usually the sorta doer cars. Don't get registered right off <hes> a few years ago right around fifty nine or sixty. They really weren't that many cars in and double check on some of the registration in this year and each those years. We've got eight or ten. Wow now your <hes> your forty one dodge russia military style pick up <hes> you you are. Are you entering that in the military class here yes and <hes> and i i hear the judging is really tough you have to you have to have the car and also original conditions. You get it if you have a to modern not or bolt on. It's somewhere you might get points off is that there are things that are due deduct points. Yes and it's supposed to be as close to original journal responsible now. I don't expect you to sit here and tell me any of the things you hope. The judges won't spot about your vehicle but i'm sure it's all in original condition right that quite know all too much honesty. Dave ramsey show here. That's that is commendable. I <hes> ah we'll we'll let the judges figure out what it is right. That is great. Yeah you won't press any farther for the for the <hes> the the deep skinny on what's going on here but <hes> <hes> and how many how many how big is this class. How many how many vehicles will be competing against. I think <hes> i i haven't double checked the numbers but roughly twenty. Have you been a winner in the past no well. There's gotta gotta be a first time. Writing actually the military classes dubai into two classes. It's <hes> three quarter ton and last three quarters quarter down to quarter term like a jeep and then it goes <hes> from that point all the way up to very heavy stuff now now we do have in our senior class. Vehicle is not here this year. We do have a fully operational tank. Hey <hes> from where to it's a light tank. It is a fully operational parents including the gun. Do a lot of people come over here and take selby's with that. You know sorta sorta tanks for the memories and thom beers we i apologize. Tom thumb's here with me and i jumped on my <hes> a ah longtime w._d. Veteran i really appreciate his help. Getting set up this morning and you actually just say thanks for the memories. I did you really stupid <music> and again. It's early in the show. You never know just how low we're gonna yeah yeah. Yeah it's gonna be. It's gonna be exciting. Well tell me i i mean are there. Other bigger armored vehicles in these military classes but bob chase is also a british tank that was here last year and we have a world war two armored car that is spent here before wow and uninteresting <hes> military truck over there we have shop truck that comes out of stall uh-huh and it's more modern so i think it's a late the eighties early nineties and the sides of it fold out there is a fully operational lays welding operation inside it wow and he'll have that open and on display a little bit later in the show <hes> that'll that'll be. That'll be fun to look at as well. I wanna wander around later. I mean i'm just gazing across as he described as part of the lawn here and i'm looking at a role vehicles off to our left and <hes> tell me can can you sorta spot like that big that blue one there. You know what that one is a street right uh-huh and i'm not exactly sure what make <hes> aren't that is but <hes> i it's a nice looking car nice job and beyond that is a fifty eight buick and a a <hes> fifty seven cadillac <hes> and on this end. There's a chevy nova that read one yes yeah. There's also so coming this way a little bit further. There's a canadian pontiac. I believe a sixty two and your hard top and we do get some in cars out of canada. <hes> quite a few and we do have the canadian flag up and everything we welcome our canadian guests. That's great. I believe he wanted to jump in. The invasion wanted to think dave is the the stride the it's bob. Correct me if i'm wrong but it's only been a few years that they allowed the street rods to participate in the show show correct. That's been a real focus of this car meet over the years. <hes> it's a great class and a lot of people have a lot of fun with it and just i don't know maybe four or five five six years ago. They decided let's allow them to come in and display their vehicles. It brings in a little bit newer audience in a different audience and expands the base a little bit but the street lie rods are not a major major part of it but i yeah <hes> lots of stuff going on connected with the with the event here at fairfield but the real centerpiece is all vehicles that have been. I've been seeing role old rolling in this morning and <hes> one of them. We've got is a antique police car. I'm told it was the first <hes> the first deputy any sheriff's car and it'll moral county and it looks like a beauty that's classic blue and white a police car and <hes> it it is something to see. It's such a wide variety of these older vehicles. We've been talking with bob chase owner of a world war two vehicle and military style pickup truck and and <hes> there is a military division here apparently includes a tank so everything from a tank to <hes> all sorts of little. I see something going across the field over. Were they want. What do we know about that. One is that a <hes> tiny little cart almost one of our golf card so okay anti it kind of looks at. It looks like you might be my might make the cut of that one. There is an antique antique harley davidson golf career. We've actually had had restored. Wow that's <hes> they. We still use it so everything from tanks to classic golf carts here. This is quite a variety eighty vehicles here and i. I'm excited to walk around the grounds here later. In fact i think i'm gonna come back tomorrow with my wife and a couple of friends and we're going to wander around here and just play <hes> play. The part of visitors observers attendees whatever you wanna call it today <hes> hosting a radio show from here which is my in extremely fun job job and <hes> so <hes> happy to be here with w._d. My good pal tom. Beardsley is with me and longtime w._d. Veteran tom. How many of these cars have you done over the years. Oh goodness <hes> when i think back kind of i've probably done twenty or twenty five of them. I've been here bob. I've been here a long time. Yeah ask yeah i can show and <hes> years back one of the things you mentioned wandering around and seeing some of the automobiles that are here tomorrow if you come back with your wife or your family whatever every day the thing you're gonna find is the people they have these automobiles. If there's one thing they enjoy more than anything else it's telling can you about their vehicle. You you walk up to these people. You'll find them camped out with lawn chairs and coolers and everything next to their vehicle and they're here for the whole weekend and they got their sunday on the hats on and it's just it's a big outing for them and there's a great deal of camaraderie and these people all know one another they've seen each other for years and years and years at this and other shows and <hes> they just had a show just last weekend in newport where i live now at the high school grounds and a lot of these people were probably there. I'm guessing they're lower many of them. <hes> <hes> it's nowhere near as big as show as this one this one is considered the granddaddy of all shows in the state of vermont but they do love to talk about their vehicles. They love to tell you the history of them when they got him where they got how who own the automobile before they did what the history of that person is. It's really quite entertaining to talk to these people yeah. That must be i eventually that's a that's a lot a lot of fun actually hear those stories about these different vehicles and just <hes> and you know it intrigues me that so many people <hes> make a hobby out of this particular part of life you know and just love these old vehicles and and work really hard to maintain them to restore them maintain them. I mean i've known a few guys in my time. I'm who take an old cars and painted them up beautifully and fixed up the engines and got them from <hes> you know on the edge of <hes> of junk them shall we say back to back to <hes> real <hes> real showpiece. You may have just coined a phrase there. The edge of junk saga sounds like it could be a soap opera. Uh i you of junk and now it's a passion for these people yeah yeah interesting thing but we think of of our generation. I'm guessing you and i are contemporaries or close to it. When you think back to the generation that came of age after world war two there was an interesting and punctuation mark in automobile development in world war two in that during the war production of automobiles for consumers stopped there was there was no production automobiles for consumers during the war itself so all these cars people refer to him as prewar and postwar automobiles and that's an interesting distinction and chris when you have chris barbieri on at some point he can tell you more about this as i'm sure bob ken about that that major punctuation mark in the middle of automobile production it really is a big you know there was a big gap there everything from very early nineteen forty two to essentially nineteen team forty six just there was no production unless it was for military is they were building military equipment in yeah any any survey okay and production in that time retain the nineteen forty two model year and they got the you know it was for military use. It's so you really can't pick up <hes> a even in the antique car world in nineteen forty three or four four you can't it. It's a four jeep and he did make ford <hes> they did make gps ford may jeeps and <hes> willie's made gps yeah well. We're to on that to be interesting. Dave not to interrupt here but you know when you put it in perspective of what we have witnessed in recent years in in conflicts around the world and so forth the sheer magnitude for anyone who has ever studied in paid attention to world war two was all about when you stop to think that production of automobiles stopped for several years well they made military vehicle yeah it just kind of points to the magnitude of that particular event in world history doesn't and some some of those car plants were actually <hes> transitioned over to make planes weren't they were yeah. That's that's exactly low <hes> that would be. I can see how that i mean that was such a huge endeavor. Yeah we had exactly essentially retool our entire economy <hes> for the <hes> for four the <hes> war effort and <hes> so so i can it makes sense that that gap what occurred fast coming up on a break here. We've got to go to a bottom of the hour c._b._s. News and a couple of words from our sponsors <hes>. We're gonna take a break on the day graham show here w._d. F._m. and a._m. And come back and a couple of minutes with more from the far field the antique and classic car show here taking place is this weekend. We'll be back shortly. We had a dollar for every compliment. I get about our selection upstairs at the warren store. The season's collection boasts country casual clothing for men and women dresses for summer weddings and events they be clothing from sue chano and doodle pants and fair trade jewelry from around the world. I'm excited about a new line of pottery from londonderry vermont and also illuminated paper stars for outdoor fun. It's a great day trip to warn village comfort lunch on the deck and upstairs for some unique retail therapy fund funky friendly friendly and almost world-famous newsradio w._d. F._m. and a._m. Now back to the day bram show we are back and i am having brain cramp here. My next guest is when the liberal wendall noble milton right yes correct and <hes> wendell <hes>. You are the chair of the of the <hes> event here. I'm of the board of directors of the club of the more. I wouldn't take any credit away from <hes> dwayne lesion asian and <hes> bob jason cheer cheer the show okay. They do away more work. So what is the <hes>. What does the club then tell me about that to vermont automobile enthusiasts. You've probably seen written. A number of places existed since nineteen fifty three frankly. I think it's pretty unique. Is <hes> automobile clubs go. I don't know another one and then at least in the northeastern united states this is in his <hes> succeeded in and <hes> <hes> existing so long and we've got members from from vermont for sure but <hes> members from quebec and new york and massachusetts and a lot of people from maine new hampshire and we didn't got. We've picked up a few <hes> outside the continent. Even that is that's terrific. Where do they tend to come from when they're coming intercontinental from your show we we had to go out and get them. Ah we're chris. Barbieri set up with china for group of us over there. We signed up a few guys interested interested in cars. Now are anti cars popular in china. Well you know <hes> is kind. They are yes but it's there aren't very many of them. Because of the devastation the station of world war two and we are left behind would have left behind was yeah a lot of u._s. Military vehicles and beyond that the <hes> <hes> braid braid cars at the officials of us with bullet holes in them that <hes> they're really interesting stuff and chris has been <hes> helping this guy right by sending in some cars over here <hes> you <hes> we'll have a lot of a lot of different things to cover but you were telling me on the break that <hes> a the big purpose of this event is actually to raise funds for scholarships is that right that is correct yeah and tell me about that for years <hes> we are scholarship. <hes> activity consisted of giving scholarship money to v._t._c. to the students in the auto tech program down there over the years. We're consistently getting the message edge from even the president of the universe of of the college <hes> gosh <hes> students are coming in here and they're not adequately prepared in science and math <hes> <hes> as a result they <hes> have to take remedial courses while they're here. They don't get any credit for them and they're gonna pay for them. Wouldn't it be great if somebody could get into the the feeding <hes> technical crew centers in and try to influence these kids to lynn that gap so they kept kinda subtly suggesting that to us so we finally undertaking a program to do that and that's our golden wrench award program. There's <hes> sixteen <hes> automotive technical centers in the state and each one of those <hes> we ask the staff the teaching staff to select one junior each cheer that they feel has exhibited the greatest interest in and and <hes> <hes> effort at attaining skills in science and math awesome and then we go to the school and present him with an award which consists of certainly an honor but also he gets some stuff we give them a set of tools and <hes> <hes> <hes> a plaque and <hes> a book on the physics of nascar just to stimulate lipid physics does have something to do with automotive the motive technology you know it's it's really interesting to me because i think there's a popular image out there of a car mechanic as you know the old i dunno greasy guy shade tree mechanic and typically you don't really think of it in connection with a lot of education but it takes a lot of education these days and i think more and more so so as as automotive designs change over time right yeah the greasy going under the shade trees less and these guys are learning how to use it on on-board diagnostic test or on a brand new car and stuff like that but computer technology in a way. It's a shame because they don't get an opportunity to see what's really in there that makes it tick. You know we're even trying to do something about that taking an old car taking just the transmission or something they look at this. You can see what's going on in here and you you can see all the physics takes place. I this machine you have an advanced degree in engineering that right or six young physics and and <hes> and so <hes> and if you focused in your time is it a p._h._d. It and <hes> did you focus in your studies on on the physics six of of an engine you know i didn't but i i was interested in and i always even <hes> gosh your soon as i could lay my hands on an engine. I always wanted to know what's inside what makes it tick and so forth so interest was there <hes> and <hes> i in fact for. I thought it'd be mechanical engineer and then i discovered discover the well physics is really more broader than that and <hes> pursued that path and said oh wow that's interesting so so what are the biggest changes. Would you say <hes> in automotive technology in the last <hes> pickup period. What fifty years be yeah. I i think <hes> consider what they've done to make cars fuel-efficient. You know you think back to the eighties thought what can you do and into now we have computerized. It may seem like a <hes> an awful disgrace to do that but you think about what the computer's doing. That car is when when in <hes> up through the the eighties <hes> you had the tune your car up every year you know plugs new points new condenser timing for just that new cars doing that all the time now constantly on the fly with a computer wow and i think that's probably the biggest constituent to <hes> of increased fuel economy. Is that having that engine running perfectly all the time and they tell you in the cars. These days will tell you right on the dashboard. If you're if some aspect of you know the tire pressure even it's a it's a different world tom beer so you want to jump in here. I have a question here window. Oh for you having to do with just that fuel efficiency and so forth one of the reasons probably one of the principal reasons people like these old cars is because of the style l. in the the artistic the creative style of course form follows function but yeah these beautiful automobile with the big fins on the back and so they weren't not necessarily aerodynamic back in those days but they were pretty look at nowadays. All the automobiles are well. Aerodynamics dictates the style all to a great extent in and that's why these older vehicles are so popular people love to look at them. They're just great looking back on holidays. They all look alike because they're they're all the same aim streamline yeah interesting you drive down the road these days and you look your car and you go. You have to play the subaru or cadillac. Take these old cars you look at the chrome and the the beautiful they really were works of art weren't oh they were they. Were there and you defend my god. I love blended. My father had a fifty nine chevy and i swear i got too close to the sidewalk cut a pedestrian and a half a few things to say well you know they a- actually raise some interesting issues here because obviously these old cars <hes> back to the beginning in early or even early decades of the automobile industry. Let's see what when did. I just take one example seatbelts. Come in they were available as an option. I think gosh back in mid fifties but a a lot of people didn't hop for member. Nobody really cared about safety remember. The ford showed me both the steering wheel had basically a sharp sharp point tracy but i didn't know you had an accident. You're gonna get impaled. <hes> yeah if you had an accident and it was all over anyway right. That's why you're gonna pay on that. They uh remember they won. The first thing they did is they made the the steering wheel. Sort of the hub was kinda recessed. They patted the dashboard so that when you hit it you bounce in aw hot isn't it side curtain airbags yeah yeah all around it. It is it is amazing when you think about the safety improvements cars over the years and of course a lot of that has contributed to the to the price of a car. How much do you pay for your first car. What year was that. Oh gosh well. I didn't buy a a new one until sixty eight. I guess and i remember those days. Yeah you could <hes> you could buy a car for new karn two thousand thousands dollars yeah you don't. You don't buy a new car. These days no no ten. It's just <hes> i mean not not very many ways truly amazing. Tom quickly <hes> dave. We couldn't engine our coverage here. The car show is made possible. Thanks to the good folks at calderwood insurance fire insurance and of course the vermont automobile enthusiasts. Is it gets themselves. We thank them for the support of bringing us here to the show each year just wanted to get that him absolutely and i and i thank you for that reminder. <hes> i can see you know. It's very the interesting this morning. Actually when we first got here an hour and a half or two hours ago there weren't many of the old vehicles around rolling in as we sit here and it's it's almost like a precursor to the parade. It's going to be happening. I believe at three thirty tomorrow afternoon as i write wendell wendell noble is our guest right now and he is the <hes> chair of the board of the club that <hes> puts on this event the is it the vermont car enthusiasts from automobile enthusi- enthusiastic wrong suzanne okay all enthusiastic and there's lots of enthusiastic here about because i mean i'm just looking at some of these vehicles rolling in and i feel like putting down my headset and running around and look at them right now. I'm gonna have to wait until the radio shows over though it's really <hes> i'm i'm very intrigued right here here and i gotta tell you i think maybe somewhere listeners can recognize you know <hes> well days not really an expert on cars you know i i've driven cars my whole adult life but i <hes> i so i'm looking around and i'm just a lot more curious than i am knowledgeable right now but it's really something and i and i think i think what this is telling me is that you don't have to be an expert to come over here and really enjoy this car. Show <hes> tom beardsley <unk>. I just talking to you on the race and stuff. Of course you've been covering quite a number knbr. These car shows for years for for w._d. And <hes> and so you know so you're you're much more familiar with with the scene than i am and <hes> and what about that i mean this car shows welcoming to the <hes> pretty much anybody of any knowledge level about cars. Is that right. Oh yes absolutely it's it's about a love of the automobile. In america certainly has had a love affair with the automobile the internal combustion engine and wendell over the years <hes> america's just love their cars cars they really do and and <hes> they love these old cars and this show go back goes back six decades now and people just love to come down here show off their vehicles the a a lot of them call them have pet names for the baby or whatever and they love to show them often talk about them and tell you all about all the minute details about these cars ars and and trucks for that matter <hes> so it's it's really a fun atmosphere. It's a carnival atmosphere and <hes> speaking wendell. Tell us about the <hes> the vehicle you have entered year. Oh i've got a nineteen thirty chrysler roadster. Wow <hes> restored it myself over last few years when i got it. It was a pilot parts <hes> kind of amusing we we <hes> went to get these parts from the guy that had and then it was too pickup trucks in a trailer load of stuff in we finally from up in <hes> greenville. We finally got back to my house and <hes> when you guys did you seventy doors on your load that need doors. I thought you had him and so he called the guy back and he was very upset of questions doors. You've got to have doors go back and he called me back the next day so i found them and they're in the hall closet <laughter>. Wow that's an enthusiast. Wow if you had car doors in your hall closet aww yes what did i. I wonder what various spouses thinking about this. I wondered about that myself and and in fact tell me about the gender breakdown. Here's this mostly guys we anymore and all do we you know the president of the club is jan sander <hes> and <hes> thanks she's been president before but <hes> we consider a family organization and <hes> certainly <hes> <hes> men and women are welcome in and active participants depends <hes> and <hes> <hes> it it really. I've only been a member for no. No maybe thirteen years or so and what's it strikes me. Now is my gosh. That's big part of social life for my wife and i the people we've known through this club. <hes> when i first started coming to car car shows i told my wife i said look i. I won't do you any car shows. You don't drag me anti crafters. She's here we got here. She's he's having a ball <hes>. That's <hes> that is. That's very fun thing now. <hes> i wanna ask you also about some of the upcoming events. I know there's a there's a a parade tomorrow. Is that basically all vehicles in the in the show. Some won't some people don't want to get their car off the field. There'll be a few left behind but eh certainly open to all and it is probably a vast majority will be in the parade and and then there's the <hes> there's a dance tomorrow evening with some live music obviously obviously and the cetera yeah. You probably know more about that than i do but yes. There is a block dance downtown. We started that about fifteen years ago. Dave we started in the post office parking lot in stowe when the show was up there and we've been doing it every year since we've only been rained out once in that <hes> fifteen or so years that we've been doing the street dance and management <hes> man whose name is known far and wide across vermont and beloved is one of our top musicologists in the state he the guys spinning the tunes tomorrow afternoon evening. Now what happens is the parade goes off the field at three thirty and it takes about an hour and a half to complete sleep the parade which winds its way on main street through the rusty parker memorial park that we affectionately refer to his rusty's park in front of the train station in reviewing stand where joel will be and somebody from the car club. We'll be doing the announcement of the various automobiles and then back here to the field and when the parade wraps up at about five o'clock you ever take a little bit joel's going to begin right then and there with dance. That'll go until about nine o'clock tomorrow night. Wow okay so it's a lot of fun and that's that's a great place to view the automobile says pass in review right there and rusty's park because there's plenty of vantage points all the way around the park so you can put yourself find yourself a spot there here with your lawn chair or whatever they'll be vendors and different tents and so forth and as soon as the cars have passed in review then you can stay to enjoy the rock and enroll with joe landman all right and <hes> and joel does do a great job. He's got a very <hes> very broad eclectic knowledge of rock over the guy i ah listening to him talk about it is enjoyable as listening to the music and he's an antique automobile and he's <hes> these particularly fond of studebaker but he's had others is it over the years as well but he's had numerous studebaker is and he has some fairly colorful stories about getting a studebaker to and from this show and breaking down on the interstate date and so forth but i'll let you all have to fill us in when the air tomorrow that'll be <hes> that'll be a lot of fun and the of course <hes> another feature of this event is <hes> lots of food food vendors around the grounds here and tom. You must have considered a part of my mission in life to sample all the various <hes> food vendors here at this show and other events that we cover and obviously you can see the results of that day i. I'm not gonna talk about that yeah. I can't really be critic now. <hes> tell me <hes> what are your famous. What are you. What are you like for the food. Vendors far as the food is good. It's all good. I mean there's everything everything from cheeseburgers and hot dogs to <hes> fried onions deep fried onions and so forth and <hes> various a little bit more exotic things that you'll find it's just a it's a great place just to enjoy some good food by the way this year is the first year that we are broadcasting on friday <hes> down here at the show in previous years we were always here here saturday through sunday and we came up with the idea this year that it might be a good idea to come down on friday number one because it's fun to see all the automobiles arriving on the field field and talk about them as they arrive and and that adds a whole different dimension to our broadcast but it's also the fact that we're at the very beginning of this three day weekend for automobile automobile enthusiasts which goes right through sunday and the audience on friday for this radio station as you well know as a a pretty significant audience so we thought it'd be a good idea to get your show down in particular seriously and bring this to a whole new audience and i think we're going to see the results of the benefit of doing that over the next forty eight hours hours or so because so many people tune into the dave ramsey show and the other programs through the course of the day on friday we're hoping that brings a lot more <hes> uh consumers to come see the antique and classic car meet now this yellow car that just is pulling in right over here <hes> that the treat for he is i e mercury. Maybe what do you what tom can you give jack if we can get chris over here and <hes> chris so i'm sure he'd be able to tell us. I think it's a mercury but i'm not sure about it. It looks i ever fifty six model which means it doesn't have the sedan between the stud there between the front and back knows it's a a beautiful <hes> lemon yellow a lot of chrome on the front. <hes> <hes> wow the big shaded headlights in the front. The chrome ore tournament on the front as well. Those are all the things that draw you into an automobile like that. Maybe i just was attracted to that because my first car was a nineteen seventy-three mercury capri same same color yellow so another mercury support tinier. Those cards were the nineteen seventies. Mercury capris were were interesting how our tasting color for cars has changed you look at the ones back back in the fifty those two tone that young and <hes> now what do we do <hes> gray colored. They're all you know yeah. Ranger probably four different colors that are considered nice now. Not i'm looking at this. One is powder blue over here so i mean the cars used to be much more pastel in color. Here's <hes> chevy over here. You're all your robin's-egg blue with a white top and you can see it and that's very typical much larger automobiles than we have today. It's like writing you sit in. The backseat acceded like riding your living room. There's tension as if but very spacious inside. I dare say that <hes> for many of us are existence. It's on this planet may have started in some of these automobile. That and cars got smaller over time. I've i've i've often wondered now. What kind of fun can you have anymore anyway but <hes> that that's <hes> vaccines have gotten way too. You know tom mentioned the the <hes>. I love affair with the car. <hes> and you know uh-huh you. You'll if you read some of the publications in this hobby you will see the lamentation over the fact that we're the young folks <hes> and and <hes> you get out in the backyard his head stuck under hood anymore in fact some winning bother to get a driver's window noble double cards easy as i can tell you love cars your whole life. What do you think about that. It was a phenomenon right now. We're we're seventeen eighteen year. Old kids are not getting lean their licenses and it used to. They used to be a rite of passage. I know what i i can't relate to it. I where's the curiosity. I couldn't wait. No wait wait for the independent open road yeah really i was at the d._m._v. at eight o'clock in the morning yeah sixteenth birthday. I couldn't wait and there were there. Was this ritual in my hometown where where i think the police got a list of every new what kind of car they were going to be a little unfair when you first week getting your license society to drive you know dad's oldsmobile around or whatever yeah you were gonna get full over giving the finger shake anyway. My recollection was a good reason for that oftentimes there there there was now i leading off new yeah. Hey we gotta go tommy our break of <music> c._b._s. news wendall noble milton longtime car enthusiasts and tear the club that puts on the anti the antique and classic car show. You're far field. Thanks so much for joining us this writing all right. We're going to be c._b._s. News a couple of words sponsors. We do talk media news thing as we usually do here then back with more with the car show into our second hour on cape ramp show. I wish i had a dollar for every compliment. I get about our selection upstairs at the warren store. The season's collection boasts country casual clothing for men and women dresses for summer weddings things and events baby clothing from suzano doodle pants and fairtrade jewelry from around the world. I'm excited about a new line of pottery from londonderry vermont also illuminated paper stars for outdoor fun. It's a great day trip to warren village comfort lunch on the deck an upstairs for some unique retail therapy fund funky and friendly and almost world famous amos back to the dave graham show w._d. F._m. It is happening at fairfield west of downtown waterbury right off route you too and <hes> really happy to be. This is an exciting thing for me. I'm i'm out. I'm not a car accident. I'm just a desire but i seen all these terrific old vehicles role in here who is warning getting ready for an event. That's going to stretch right through the weekend tomorrow and sunday. Maybe the highlight is gonna be <hes> tomorrow afternoon at three thirty in ah antique and classic car parade that lines from this field about maybe a half a mile west downtown waterbury down through the village to rusty parker park mark and <hes> we <hes> we're w._d. Is going to be here throughout the proceedings tomorrow. Joel najma of w._v._u. Is going to be a <hes> gonna be spinning disks after the parade tomorrow for a dance that goes until nine pm <hes>. It's going to be a really fun time throughout <hes> and then then there's gonna be a an award ceremony believe on sunday and <hes> we are going to be <hes> <hes> talking with some of the folks involved in this in this event went in the coming hour the second hour of today's day graham show on on this friday august ninth two thousand and nineteen and <hes>. I believe first off. We're going to be talking with tomsk. Terry of talk. Media news one of our national correspondent who regularly joins us <hes> after the after the <hes> c._b._s. News midshow. Is tom with us. Yes he is and let me push the right button here all right. That's all i ah here all right good morning. Tom terry tommy with us. I am here hear me. Yeah i can hear you now. That's great. I appreciate you getting a getting on the phone with us this morning. We're we're broadcasting a remotely from a car antique and classic car. Show up here and reminding. Come up this weekend. It's going to be a terrific event here a lot of a lot of beautiful old vehicles that are just rolling in too far. You see that yeah it's to blast. I'm telling you it's going to be great <hes> but it did wanna think of break midshow like we like to do and get broadened the lens behind beyond the state of vermont <hes> and get one of our talk media news his friends to <hes> help us understand what's going on in the larger world out there and <hes> your first item looks like this morning you are the <hes> the military and intelligence and foreign policy correspondent with talk media news. I love adding this element this dimension to our program when we get you on the phone <hes> and the first thing your <hes> you have on your list of the intelligence shakeup going on what's happening yeah yeah so as most people know dan coats who's the director of national intelligence announced. He was retiring as august fifteenth. What's next week so president. Trump said he was going on texas congressman next director that tell through so to two who's number two over there was become the acting director of national intelligence per legal statute another thing for some reason and she's been opposed by members of trump's ally okay not republicans or democrats on the hill but trump allies. I haven't gotten a clear reason as to why anyway <hes> he had said he president trump that you've put someone else there and he's deferred to her now. She's leaving she and now she's also gonna retire august fifteenth next week and then that means you know talk to intelligence people. She's a veteran the c._i._a. For many many years well regarded so all of a sudden we have this gap now at the top of the intelligence food chain here in this country and obviously a critical time the <hes> the the person who will become acting is is the head of counterintelligence. He's a qualified individual former navy seal. That's not so much the issue but issue moore's all your you have these very capable incredible people leaving a big gap in u._s. Intelligence now boy that that is something to lose the one and two <hes> intelligence in the country <hes> pretty much simultaneously. That's a big blow isn't it. Yes yes it is and just telling listeners understand what the director of national intelligence office does not office coordinates compiles intelligence collected by a plethora uh of agencies we have it's not just the c._i._a. We have the defense intelligence agency various other intelligence groups. You know like national security administration does all the spy satellites is it listens to our phone conversations that kind of stuff so they coordinate and they get the intelligence from all of these was created after nine eleven because of the sort of lack of communication between the talent organization at something may have made not made us more vulnerable to attack. Yeah that's <hes> <hes> that is a tough situation and something that certainly bears watching as we go forward. I i just i mean let's roll it back a week or two when it was announced the dan coach was leaving the top job as director of national intelligence. Is it become clear why he made that decision now. Yeah yeah i mean it's the same reason that jim mattis secretary <hes> they couldn't get along with president trump and their vision of what needed to be done in madison defense offense and codes for intelligence <hes> contradicts what the president thought that you know coach famously <hes> early this year he and the head of the c._i._a. And other somebody's other intel i would just groups were testifying up on capitol hill and they're asking what the situation like in. Let's say russia over iran and whatever and what they testified publicly. I said he's situations. Dramatically disagree with what president trump was saying was the reality in these areas so that very probably disagreement. You can imagine how well they played with president trump and you know very well. Coach has always been kind of an odd man out with president trump <hes> until this his his departure was one of those things was well. That's not a surprise to many people her departure here yeah that is <hes> just adds to into the level of concern here. I would think but it should yeah yeah well. Let's let's shift gears here doing environmental story probably before we do that. I want the tell you something. I did to perhaps the balance out the gloom and intelligence is this past week <hes> sector expert at defense asia and so the pentagon i've been at the pentagon and it's been opportunity to talk to people in the more casual way without deadlines. There's remind and i've i've sensing a new kind of momentum and optimism at the pentagon now that leadership is they confirm. It's just not be disrespectful to anybody before them but now we have a new confirm defense defense secretary and deputy secretary a new chief of joint chiefs coming in here joint chiefs next month by by rotation <hes>. There's so there's sort of like okay. Finally we settled on personnel matters. Go about the jobs we like to do and and that's it was a good feeling to have. I wish i would hope from the pentagon last. It's not that i was just thinking about that and because i had talked to a senior official wants doing he mentioned the same thing on his own you know and i i just think it's not spent. It's just like it was sort of like okay. We finally got this thing settled now. Focus always world problems so that in a sense it doesn't balance out the loss of the intelligence impose but it does make me feel better as things go forward at the disarray has been at the pentagon is gonna end so it's not all disarray out there. That's the word. How can you know take away yeah yeah. Hey <hes> but i didn't wanna before i let you go. I want to just get to you. Listen next to this environmental story. <hes> the environmental protection agency is reauthorized the use of controversial chemical traps to kill coyotes dogs foxes and other animals across the u._s. The cyanide bombs are meant to protect livestock. Although some environmental groups are calling for a nationwide ban and saying they are inhumane <hes>. Do the environmental groups have a chance here or is it pretty much a done deal <hes>. I think that it's a tough tough for any environmental groups to moving into the c._p._a. Yea and they tried to mitigate action in sort of congress intervening which again is unlikely because the division the partisan divisions on capitol hill these cyanide china bombs were were stopped for both humanitarian reasons as well as the fact that they could harm humid so that's another aspect of it as well. What happens is trap saddened animals alerting with food and then <hes> these bombs go off bombs like you think you know from an airplane but they spoil him. Yeah and sign tells them much like like you know. If you're putting the gas chamber <hes> the problem is that you know it's not just restricted to that area and it's dangerous environment generally as well and it's just you know it's it's just another. It's just the retrenchment from what some would say progress in dealing with this on a very vocal group farmers and ranchers want these at the expense of others any concern about you know this stuff getting into nearby waterways and so on well yeah that's part of it. You know because we're these traps could be that as always regulations stipulating wear but those are constantly broken. You know we have to face reality about how things happen and eh. You're giving the green light to use these kind of this kind of <hes> you know anti animal effort <hes> it's going to be used at the discretion of those using it not so much a bonding outing with they. Don't you know mike into the water while we gotta get rid of this guy oti yeah. I don't wanna be fishing downstream from where this is going on. I guess i wouldn't i wouldn't advise. Is that tom scott terry. I'm gonna let you go. I appreciate you taking the time this morning and we have a show next week and <hes> that's great and <hes> <hes> they've been as i've been saying i'm very excited to be here at the vermont antique and classic car show. The sixty second annual edition of this event is being held this year at far field just west of watery village and this has been a really fun thing for me this morning to watch these antique cars rolling in here. They just arriving this friday morning for the three day weekend event including big parade of antique cars tomorrow we're going down into the military waterbury and then on sunday a judging event at various client varies classes classes and and prizes will get issued <hes> be cars. Our vehicles are being answered at various divisions. We talked with <hes> wendell noble about a vehicle that <hes> nineteen forty one military pickup truck. I believe <hes> dodge pickup truck and <hes> <hes> sooners military vehicles. There are regular civilian there and there are vehicle devoted to various types of automobile racing and that's what we're going to get into now with my next two guests. Dion is a former milton resident now living most time in florida and he comes up in the summertime tells me this is the the <hes> the highlight of his visit annually to new england. Come to the antique and classic car show good morning. Dave thanks for joining me. It's great to be here and on the other side of let me to my right is <hes> bill jobs lower east from white river junction and also is <hes> a participant in the division devoted to is it is a racecar stock. Mars racecars yeah anything racing. Yes bill. Thank you so much for joining me this morning. Now here's a question for you guys. Is there any any <hes> any any event here is that there's actually a car race old vehicles out and run them around the track memories memories and and <hes> i i just think boy that would be an exciting thing to watch some old nineteen forty eight chevy whatever's realize the old days they probably raced on similar surfaces to this because in vermont they had like a hundred tracks at one time retraction <hes>. It's just an amazing history. We we also have the history of racing in our tent area. <hes> has explains a lot from the ground up on this or any of the cars that are going to be on display or maybe some of them already arrived in are on display as we speak <hes> this weekend or any of the any of them veterans of thunder road over and bury yes yes yes and dave rant on the road into taped show yeah we ran there from nineteen seventy two through two thousand four or five something like that we ran at your name sounded familiar. I think the thunder road guy from way back now dave. What kind of vehicle did he bring to the to the festival. We brought our the nascar busch series. It's northern series. If you watch races racist week on television and on saturday it's <hes> called the expended service but fish sponsored. That's for thirty something years and we were the northern they had not part of the country rules for similar anyway. That's the last guy was built nineteen ninety and ran all the way up through two thousand five and and it ran down the road and one wants to finish it up every time so kind of cars it now tourist you know sense then they've gone to the ford fusion the last time that guy raised in two thousand five wow okay i remember tauruses those those guys are really popular for longtime current and of course now they're different mustang but back then the only one that was legal a tourist and bill johnson way. We're judging you vehicle. <hes> here is one. That's try different. I have eight of them here. I brought he left the home trucker's anyway. There is a car that three j car this on display over here. This is <hes> last checkered flag at the milk bowl. That's under road in nineteen sixty five. I wild <hes> it did not win the event but it took the last checkered flag with a flathead engine and after that they went to overhead so that has some really really good history yes yeah that's that's guana pedigree and and so <hes>. What do you think would that car race today. No they're not safe. We use we display a._m. And we take them to local tracks and run them <hes> parade lap stuff aussie for back when we were in a lot bell nepad on ahead and a t shirt we know that we had a purist survived all that hundred next to this guy was still alive when these people look at the history of auto racing and they walk out and look at a raise cows racecars does authentic as you could be if you turn the clock back fifty sixty years yeah. We don't modernize them. We put the fact that those flaws are in the car. Was what makes those guys so special fan. I can't believe you sat in that seat. What hold on onto doesn't that say. We take back in time with what bill brought to you. You're not supposed to pay attention to the seat falling. Yeah hang on tighter one thing you'll see of course <hes> when they built a second car. That's racing starters actually back in eighteen nineteen hundred by one thing you can look at it. These event like an event like this is <hes> shows are d- <hes> some of these cars over here have square car tubing and they didn't spend anything back then they couldn't bend it bend it and they just muttered everything together and welded it also. If you really look at the cars you'll see how they were developed over with the years like if you compare one of these with dave's car and a safety factors that i made into these cars today oh we we were running back in the year yeah well. The real racer couldn't afford the race. He was raising a family and you would actually go to the junk out of the dump on saturday morning and you pick up pieces go to junk yard. <hes> get get a cop bill. The engine of south this is pure as it gets right here from on exactly yeah that that that is <hes> that's really something and and it must have been a the <hes> <hes> thrilled to be participating in those events back in the day to it was it was awesome. True heroes yeah people that came before it was so much fellowship the ship was as important as the racing in the family and leave all the wife and the kids and the grandchildren you see pushing the car working on the review really really your family and best friends is is is how you were allowed to race. You gotta people that that back your passion yeah now you also does some <hes> <hes> some <hes> activities down at <hes> daytona as well right yes we are we ever daytona called the living legends of auto racing and the the the sad thing about it is when you say daytona oh you think of the daytona five hundred the beach racist and everything unfortunately they don't even know new england exists well they they put me on the board of directors being from vermont and that that was the worst mistake they ever but but we expose what's going on in the northern part of the country and help heal. The reason is up yeah. The dragon brothers reducted hall of fame two years ago the people they represent the state of vermont better than i think any racing family ever so we we play both ends of over in daytona we play at they know where from the winkler your ambassador reminded for the overall region up here and it is a <hes> you know i when i watch these events from here even from loudon over new hampshire and cetera you get the sense that it is a different flavor but it's the same spirit that you see you you know from talladega and all the other places around the south where people kind of associated modern car racing more more with <hes> i think it would southern climes lime but <hes> but but points it's it's been a long time tradition here and <hes> and and there's a lot to it. There's there's a lot of history there well. I track in the state. Vermont was the waterford we had a reunion up there a couple of two or three weeks ago and it was followed by <hes> thunder road that waterford track back in its day day was taken to twenty five hundred people on a night. It was just crazy the numbers i've got pictures of thunder road. We came up there in nineteen seventy you to explore. We were racing in the boston area. We came up came in on a thursday. Night didn't know anything about it on racing and there had to be i don't wanna judge it could be as much as five thousand people there on a thursday night and i said that's not possible but i think some some of the most passionate race fans whether in the grandstands are into pits yeah come out of the state of vermont. I truly believe that's why this show is so special to me yeah yeah yeah. It's quite a tradition here. In and of course i have two dollars <hes> w vs longtime family relationship with car racing at thunder wrote and of course ken squire the station's owner yeah it's been a broadcaster and car races and and has been <hes> was was owner co owner owner of thunder road for a long time and it's it's so there's a lot of <hes> intertwined history between our radio station and and the and the car racing scene here are in vermont and in new england and it's it's really been a wonderful thing and and the flavor is still around i mean the station devotes a lot of a lot of energy and a lot of time to that <hes> that issue issue this topic and <hes> and folks love it. You know we get a lot of a lot of real <hes> real longtime listeners. You look at the broadcasting a team whether it's n._b._c. Box whatever today whether to mike joy of dick berggren these people they all mentor and unto ken squad dave moody ludi yup day off their best work you can go down the line and cans <hes> is on the national level so highly regarded people people in vermont should be so proud that he really is the godfather of of auto races from the media side what he's done i. I'm glad you were able to say that because i you <music>. I'm always a little shy about blowing our own horns. Maybe i shouldn't be but but i i didn't think about you know you're on in your porsche yeah but i do. I do love that that aspect uh-huh and the just the enthusiasm he shows for over the years. It's really it's really infectious and and it's something that is is fun fun fun to be around. I've another <hes> another place of interest for anybody. In the racing is the northeast <hes> auto museum down in loudon beautiful facility and <hes> dick bergeron has been very he'd been cement on that but you get down there and they got auto racing. I mean they got racing. It doesn't matter motorcycles drag cars. They got everything in there. I guess i tried to make early about russian daytona. Yeah it's nasca. Ask us and we try to shed ed that image yeah. They're about auto racer. We're not mouthpieces for this. Guy won't unfortunately going to get to the end of the segment here c._b._s. C._b._s. news at the bottom of the hour here on the day graham show w._d. We are going to be <hes> hearing from c._b._s. News some of our sponsors. I wanna thank my two guests here. Really we had a fun time chatting with you. Guys dave dion and ville job ler <hes> car racing experts in historic car racing experts and chatted with the gentlemen. Thank thank you very much pleasure break and be back in a few minutes. I wish i had a dollar for every compliment. I get about our selection upstairs at the warren <unk> store the season's collection boasts country casual clothing for men and women dresses for summer weddings and events baby clothing from chano and doodle pants and fairtrade jewelry from around around the world. I'm excited about a new line of pottery from londonderry vermont also illuminated paper stars for outdoor fun. It's a great day trip to warren village comfort lunch on the deccan upstairs for some unique retail therapy fund funky and friendly and almost world-famous newsradio w._d. F._m. and a._m. <music> now back to the dave ramsey show and good morning everyone the dave graham show is coming to you live and direct from fars field just west of waterbury village for the special event the vermont not antique and classic car meet which continues all day today. It's gearing up in full force today with all the cars arriving will continue throughout the day tomorrow and on on into the evening with the parade in the afternoon and the street dance in downtown waterbury at rusty's park that that would be the rusty parker memorial park too many people and <hes> then it will continue on sunday with all the judging and the wrap up and <hes> the award ceremony the coverage of the car show this year is made possible thanks to calderwood insurance co-op fire insurance and brian vermont automobile enthusiasts and also the street dance is a presentation on the radio past and present motorcar <hes> waterbury service the center village grocery of wakefield and the black back pub of waterbury so we thank them for supporting those that activity tomorrow evening the big street dance one point. We wanted to make <hes> make benching up here on the radio. This morning is the traffic much better this year they've done some major changes to the <hes> access to to this field from waterbury village so if you ran into snags last year and you remember some of the backups we should hopefully be able to avoid that this year with the new classic patterns that the vermont automobile enthusiasts have put into place to make traffic flow much much more smoothly and quicker <hes> in and out of waterbury village and also for that matter coming from richmond in on route two so <hes> traffic should be much better this year now the host of the dave graham show the infamous not the famous dave graham a thank you very much. Tom beardsley <hes> my good friend and a veteran of many of these car shows as our main announcer for w._d. Here and tom's been a great guy to me as i cover my first car show as a w._d. E._v. announcer and spending so much fun so far just watching these vehicles role role in while we sit here and chat on his beautiful friday warning here at far field little west of waterbury village waterbury and what what a would've riddick event. This is going to shape the be certainly looks like so far. I wanna introduce my next guest. Mark bennett lives in warren and his chief judge of the thirty four classes of vehicles that are going to be judged this weekend at the antique and classic car show and mark. Thanks so much for joining me great to be here and mark. <hes> tell me a little bit about <hes>. I was taught chatting with a couple of folks earlier and it sounds like the judging is really very strict. You've got if you're gonna get a prize at this thing. You've got to be really on top of your game well. We'd we'd certainly like it to be that way. We try to be <hes> pretty selective. We have a lot of nice cars yeah and in fact one of the car owners was telling on me earlier that <hes> telling me a story about a gentleman. I'm not sure it's still involved but i was <hes> i guess marched down for having one nut and bolt on the engine the wrong <hes> the wrong markings on the head of the bolt historically incorrect act. I guess is the way we might put it and <hes> <hes> so you go these vehicles in the fine tooth comb itself <hes> well i. I'm not sure were usually quite as discriminating as the example you just brought up but <hes> we do our best to be fair and then look at things carefully and try to use consistent standards among the classes and so on. We have a great group of judges that are quite experienced. <hes> many of them have been judging here for ten fifteen twenty years some longer and this is all on a volunteer basis right totally yeah and that takes a lot of <hes> a lot of dedication and <hes> and i would get it. It's well well they. They get quite a few perks actually say yes. They're taken care of. They get <hes> free breakfast on sunday. They of course re admission into the show yep. They get a <hes> fancy cap a hung in they get something. We've just started this year. They got a little model car. Wow <hes> louis louis so there is a little swag bag take home. I guess yes you might say. That's absolutely that helps. I'm sure it's somewhat but <hes> and we always need more judges. <hes> i have to throw that in so if there's anybody out there that it's considering it we'd love to have become judge <hes> really just need <hes> discerning i <hes> in order to make <hes> judgments about condition <hes> we do training and we will train and mostly on authenticity as to what's correct on a on a vehicle so you don't have to have an extensive background by any means <hes> hopefully oh please be a person and and and i mean that that's that's interesting to me that <hes> the the most of the folks who are end up working working as judges here <hes> are they people who've been maybe passed a ten these competitors and so on oh absolutely absolutely in fact <hes> still mitt mitt number of the judges bring their cars here and <hes>. I have some judges as well yeah and i i would suppose that they don't end up judging in the division there the data verboten little distance there. You don't wanna you gotta keep your objectivity and all that they call it a chinese wall yeah i think so yeah and and and <hes> when when you judge other events to this. I mean this one i do i do. I've done a fair amount of judging at a a eight shows. The antique automobile club of america i see which is nationwide and and you must you must be an antique. <hes> automobile owner yourself self is that right <hes> i have had many cars over the years <hes> <hes> restored some of them myself some of them i just bought what done and kept them for period of time and enjoyed them and then pass them on and and what do you what do you have these days. What's your fav- <hes> <hes> well a sixty thunderbird convertible <hes> really my premier yeah vehicle which i did the restoration and it's still on the road or <hes>. Yes yes very much. Let's go to around warren and neighboring communities with your your sixty thunderbird convertible and boy. That's those are beautiful in the warren parade <hes> the <hes> which they think with which the july fourth the big parade or i had a good friend in high school. We had one of those this guy. It was six eight and it was just hilarious. It's a small car and he's convertible and you want to see him about twice as tall as a windshield and it was just a funny funny sight to see this guy tooling around car t. bird and <hes> so i some of the more designed for big people all yeah i can imagine that in fact i remember his his knees would kind of come halfway up the wheels and the steering wheel and it was it was just a a hilarious. A lot of people have problems with the older cars because they have large steering wheels. Yeah that's right yeah and their belly may not quite make achot <hes> l._a. You never you never know what body gets in the way interfere with your your driving some of these vehicles but <hes> yeah it is it is it is pretty remarkable able when we think about how these folks were <hes> <hes> the the enthusiasm for these cars is really pretty contagious. I mean it's phenomenon dominic. I i think to myself you ever have you run into folks at these fairs here who <hes> who just started out by visiting affair maybe taking their by a friend or or something and then got the bug and said i'm going to do that and i'm going to go out and <hes> and get myself into <hes> into old cars not so much. I think a lot comes comes from the family yeah early on well. How do you get your your start. What would be your still is somewhat again <hes> family louis but i've been a car nut since i was four years old <hes> i read all the magazines the road and track car and driver's <music> yep so on and so forth now i read <hes> old cars weekly and the hemmings publication and so on and <hes> yeah. I can't get enough of them. <hes> my dad worked on <noise> our cars here themselves and i would mostly hand them tools yeah yeah yeah and participate in some fashion <hes> so it just kind of grew from there and actually as far as mechanics i started out <hes> with motorcycles and rebuilt a motorcycle engines and so on and i'm moving then i moved onto a volkswagen rebuilt volkswagen motor and then i did a volvo vo and then later on i did some big american stuff <hes> ford v._8.'s i rebuild and so on i rebuilt the engine and the peeper wow ooh okay. I get my hands dirty. I don't just write checks the lie people in this hobby just right jack yeah you might get some ink stains on your fingers doing that but no greece so <hes> <hes> you gotta get the grease on there. Sometimes that's the well it gives you a a whole different and deeper appreciation. Deeper appreciation that that is that is tremendous. This is the and event that it's just <hes> changed a lot since i got here two and a half hours ago in terms of just what's going on here. The feud was pretty much empty when we arrived have this morning and it is getting full now of beautiful antique cars of a wide variety. I'm looking around here and there are cars like they're from the thirties cards from the fifties scars from the sixties <hes> these are. I'm dying to get off my seat here. After the show go walk around and look at some of this is going to be a lot of fun i could tell and the it's really funny to see some from the nineties and i want to bring in my guest. The <hes> the the chief judge of the of the mead here is mark bennett from warren and <hes> that was mark's voice. You just heard <hes> mark <hes> these cars can you can it actually entered cars here up to up through model year nineteen ninety four right yes anything twenty five years old or older and are so so <hes> we can have <hes> <hes>. I don't know if there's any here today but think about it chrysler minivans eligible. That was a big thing back. In the early nineties the chrysler mini van and <hes> are many of those entering these days no okay you see one now and then it happens but there's not too many around. I don't think think they were exactly well preserved family vehicles and they were beat the heck yeah that's a that's a good point and and the other thing is the styling i gotta say styling styling of of these vehicles <hes> we were talking earlier in the show about the <hes> the fact that cars tend to be built pretty much since the nineteen seventies eighties or so oh more for era and amex and fuel efficiency than for artistic beauty but <hes> we're looking vehicles here that were built in the previous era a couple of previous years the prewar era the post war era and again. We were talking earlier about the big gap in during world war. Two the united states is is really making just military vehicles and and the model years of of fords and <hes> studio bakers and all the other cars kinda disappeared there for while <hes> while while manufacturing went to gps and planes and all the stuff that we needed for the war effort and i'm i'm here with mark bennett and also with with tom beardsley of w._d. E._v. and thomas let me a lot of good guidance this morning. I'm a rookie covering the car show for d._v. Tom's been doing it for how long oh gosh at at least fifteen or twenty years. I've been doing this show in <hes>. It's been a great deal of fun every year. In <hes> the cars are one part of the treatment. It's also the people they've run into all these good people people that run the automobile enthusiasts and do it as a volunteer organization and they're just a great group of individuals and they put their heart into it and they're so proud of that scholarship program graham that they they do marketing probably know more about that <hes> it's a great program and it's something a that is a source of pride for the club. Isn't it yeah we we contribute quite a bit to v._t._c. b._t._c. Yeah motive program reminding after college produces a lot of our technicians who work on vehicles in vermont and these young people going through school. Get some help from these scholarships. That are a big feature of the the main point of the proceeds from this event. Is i think people no it's all nonprofit and anything that we you know earn over expenses. <hes> is given to scholarship programs other. They're programs that are worthy. <hes> you know other nonprofits and charities and so on that that is a really nice aspect of these of these this you bet here so your your ticket price for the show your registration fee for joining the show. If you have a vehicle you wanna bring in and enter <hes> ah the money's going to to a good cause and and and i i'd like to note it's it's one hundred percents volunteers these here <hes> we don't nobody's getting getting paid for not at all for new york and there's quite a bit of work that goes into this. I mean mark. You were telling me the judging. Let me ask what aspect of this judging and this comes to mind because i i have a family member who <hes> was judging. I think it was a demolition derby at a at a at a fair once and ran into a fairly rough situation well he should wear. I guess a participant didn't like the judging he was doing and i happen and <hes> and there was a little bit of an altercation. I guess <hes> any in any any issues there. Do you ever get worried about that kind of think well. We can have some issues. <hes> it's the the old story hard to please everybody. We have really try and certainly our intent but <hes> there are frequently <music> someone that doesn't quite agree with our <hes> perspective on judging so you gotta you gotta be the rest basically me yeah. Call our whatever when when the player might dispute the call and of course the you know the issues come to me and i try to put on my customer service service hat yup either responsive yeah. That's <hes> that much. That must be a tough aspect of your job occasionally on my favorite part. I hope not very often but i i suspect that. What are they doing the n._b._a. Now they they go to newark or something for the monitors and analyze the play and was it was was it was it out of bounds or was it not that sort of thing and so. I don't know if you guys have any backup like you. Don't have instant replay one unlocking that that's that's pretty much it but <hes> but i it it sounds like an important part of the senior really important function and i i you know kudos so you for you for your <hes> your interest and willingness in doing it does under the most part it's a lotta fun yeah yeah and and <hes> so thirty four classes of vehicles what would you say is the oddest class. I mean what what draws were there. Let's ask it this way. What are the biggest classes and what are the smallest <hes> that's a tough one without the stats in front of me but the <hes> we have a personalized stock class which is basically a modified vehicles. I mean in general are judging criteria are as delivered from the factory dealer right now the basic standard but many people like to get creative <hes> so we call personalized stock where you can do pretty pretty much anything you want and that's generally <hes> been a sizable class y and <hes> and and our people modifying notifying their vehicles for for things like <hes> seatbelts or <hes> anything else about them that would tend to install more to more modern technology <hes> and what happens then well. There are some items that are safety related that we do not <hes> take points only two off on the judging more okay <hes> there aren't too many but for example we <hes> we are allow radio tires and we we don't deduct for for that <hes> because it really is a safety item. The cars run much better handle much better. Stop better and so on <hes> also the seat belts of course are are fine <hes> and that's a common edition <hes> editions that people wanna put in that maybe may not have been originally originally from the factory in disguise limit talking about the modifications you allow changes to the sheet metal and the exterior. You'll have custom interiors careers. That can get very very elaborate. <hes> many you people like the creature comforts like air conditioning and <music> arm rests on so on air conditioning interesting you know in the thirty eight plymouth i dunno. I think i'd mark that one down you don't see that even i i can imagine a little steamy some of those old cars and in fact i remember when i was a kid without air conditioning and <hes> that was the deal. We are at the top of the hour on the day graham show here in w._d. F._m. and a._m. And i gotta wrap it up. Mark bennett <hes>. Thank you very much much for joining me in being my last but you're talking for having me and thanks for being here and folks the antique and classic car meet here. Her car field in watering continues through the weekend. Stop by check them out. It's really a lot of fun just looking around here. Hey that's the graham show <hes> we'll be back monday with another addition and we will wish you all freight afternoon excellent weekend and that's about it for us.

vermont president Tom terry tommy waterbury dave ramsey chris barbieri director dave Trump new york bob chase canada dave graham wendell wendell noble ford Joel najma tom beardsley golf
Mohabbat ka Aisa iqrar kar mujhse | Yakshi Yash

Yakshi Yash Podcast | Teri Dosti

01:36 min | 4 months ago

Mohabbat ka Aisa iqrar kar mujhse | Yakshi Yash

"Archipelago jaeger key. Jesse e crackled mojo but cow. It near i guess a rocker dope new mom. But we tom. Terry negga homemake. Ed been scum at lubbock is making me in san hand ski racer kushner up to squad at the the essence on gonna be johnny. Dj to gessen's on bottlers cbo similar. The mall but car as i seek is of data. Who'll joan mall. But car as i cur. Mosaic is set of data joan as limited bureaucracy. He could give us when our own gone as looney made at the level gone. Hey is dunia lower. Gca set of data. Jon dudas automobile honesty russia. Peletier honesty the anneke. Baden's gra miss joan. It not aloe song made. Not paul sankey to say terry she guy take a dong locked heart natural doodoo mirror look heart or they do. Mirror is beat me akilah than hard hennessy town. But guys like say he's immaterial.

Terry negga gessen joan mall Archipelago kushner bottlers lubbock Jesse Jon dudas joan Ed tom johnny san paul sankey Baden russia terry akilah
Without This, You're Guaranteed To Lose

Marketing Secrets

10:58 min | 1 year ago

Without This, You're Guaranteed To Lose

"Hey everybody this Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the marketing secrets podcast. How can enjoy being here. I tried to make a fun exciting cool podcast and I would actually want to listen to so hopefully hopefully users join us if so please make sure to go to itunes end subscribe that where he makes you get all the future episodes that are coming up without jumping the theme song. I got something really fun to talk the about today so the big question. Is this how we're onto brewers like us. He didn't cheat and take on venture capital for spending money for own pockets gets underway. Let's US get our products and our services and the things that you believe in out to the world and yet still remained. fucking that is the question in this podcast. Give you the answer my name is also Brunson and welcome to marketing secrets all right so my lesson for us today stems off of watching my daughter play soccer this weekend now my daughter. LIC's into soccer and and she loves it and up to this point. He's always been on like the I don't even call it the league teams but it's like the the local Boise League rice was like not a super hardly against last couple years they their team played to get better and better point now they just thrash everybody and so this year they decided like hey we should go up and we should go to who bigger division and and so quickly sponsor them well. I think was really me. I don't feel good taking the sponsors but we sponsor and now they've got these jerseys have click funnels logo on the back which is Kinda cool and they're playing in the league and they had the very first game this Saturday and they've been working really really hard and they got a really good coach. the guy good people around they're they're. They're practicing hard and the girls are doing. I just awesome and they're trying to figure out like the next level like where my at like. Am I going to be good. I'm going to be bad like what's going to happen. There's that fear of like the new thing right and before we left them. Ellie saying well this this this league's way better. This team's better than us. We're going to get killed and she told me that was. We're driving driving to go to the soccer and I'm like you. Can't you can't say you can't go into a game thinking. You'RE GONNA loser. You'RE GONNA lose like that's just how it works a gift. You can't do that and remember watching as they got out on. Saturdays heard playing they really get I. It was tie game for a long long time and then scored once and then it was like boom boom scored bunch times in a row and they fought well then losing in in rows. I was watching him reminded me of this video. I used to watch this movie back in my wrestling days. It was a a VHS tape that I bought that that was talking about arguing when the greatest wrestlers and definitely definitely the greatest wrestling coaches ever come out of Americans named. Dan Gable the Dan Gable if you'll get he's like I've talked about this podcast. He's like the Michael Jordan of wrestling right like his name synonymous automated wrestling when you hear who's grace rest of all time people say Dan Dan Gable sedans Dan's amazing and and this is good of a wrestler's he was was he then went on inside coach now. Hawkeye's and they won like I don't know like twenty championships in a row afterwards things like one of the most winningest coaches of all time in any sport just as good of an athlete is he was he was even a better coach and and so this this video we used to watch it was head coaching is athletes and she told cable story talked about his only loss you ever had lost once in high school and then CBS once in college senior last match he lost and he got so upset he started training to for the Olympics he would workout seven hours a day and you went to Olympics and the Russians and specifically said like an athlete just be Dan Gable. US Olympics and not only do they not beat him. Not Nobody even scored a point on in the Olympics and and that's why Dan's like this this legend in our in our sport I and then I started so it tells that story in the beginning of the movie and Seok cited and then it shows him switching to coaching and then when you do these athletes and I remember some quotes. It's like we like Tom. Terry brant twins who Tom's now the head coach Iowa off of it gables retired by remember him saying I in the video said we do stuff that make billy goat puke that's tough gables practices were and and they show the practices they talk about everything and talk about the the mindset in the mentality all these you have to have. There's this one quote that remember. I didn't get when I was a teenager. I used to watch all the time and I cable said I would never let athletes step on the mat less. He knew he was gonNA. Win and remembering put if you lose his like you know and I didn't get it at the time race. Watch that literally at least once a week we'd watch that sometimes multiple times weeks gets it's all motivated pumped up for wrestling in tournaments and so we always watch ahead of time me and my wrestling buddies and every single time that line would come would stick in my head. I didn't quite get it. He say I I would never let athletes step on the map for me. Let's he knew he was GonNa win and and as I got through you know my later years in high school and started competing with college level level. I started understanding that it was interesting. 'cause I am sure if anyone's done sports before he probably had this before but for example one of my one of my best friends my favor people we would wrestle the wrestling practice and I had some weird mental thing where I am in my head subconsciously. I thought he was better than me. It's airtime we'd Russell. He beat me and now like a close match like he beat me like I was a little girl who never wrestled before I it was it was it was bad in the medium and go to tournament together and we're GonNa say class and Mike I would win the tournament who take like fifth fifth right or we go to the tournament. Mike he would he would he would lose to somebody by five points. I rest that same person tech fall which means I win by more than fifty points south the matter early and it was like but for some reason airtime on the on the Mat with this one guy my friend in my head. I didn't think I was GONNA win. So I would lose. It was so frustrating and so like just drove me crazy. I don't get it like I beat all the people you lose to but I can't be you what's going on and that's when I started like hearing this message my head from back from I'm watching this gable video of just like I've never let a restless step on the mat unless he knew he was. GonNa win. before he stepped out on the map and I start thinking about my daughter. She stepped out on the field and she did not know she was. GonNa wait. In fact she thought you know you could lose instantly went out there and then they lost and how that how many times in life that that that message applies right and and obviously the context of this this podcast it has to do with your business right like how sometimes we get into business right. I hope I'M GONNA succeed. I hope this is GonNa work. I hope I hope I hope right now. That's going to be stepping on the mound saying I hope I can beat the sky which means I don't. I don't know if I'm GONNA win and I hope I can right. That's the mentality that I that you're stepping out of that if you if you do that most of the time at least the majority Korea time you're GONNA lose because you're hoping you can win. Dan Gable said they say I don't let any athlete step on the endless. They know they're going to win and they may not win but must step on the men knowing that they're going to win right step into a business. I would say I hope and be successful. I step in knowing I'm going to be successful knowing him into wit knowing that no matter what happens with the trials that the problems the ups the downs the sleepless nights things like like I know him in a win because if you go to like hoping you're going to win when those things pop up the trousers I like I knew I was I was hoping hope I was going to be successful but I kind of knew what was in the back of mind and knew it wasn't going to be successful right. You know like you let yourself off the hook. If you're hoping could be successful. He can't go into something having having hope and thinking like I hope I'm GonNa win especially going into thinking. I may lose right. You've got to go in believing one hundred million percent that like I'm going to be successful. I'M GONNA win like I'm stepping on this map. I'm going to beat that person. Oi Can beat them K. Otherwise Dan Gable wouldn't even let you get on the Mat. You will look at you know. I'm like you have a doubt in your mind I could see it therefore therefore you're not. GonNa let you compete for me. I'd rather lose this match. I have a forfeit then. Let you step on the Mat not knowing you're going to win. That's kind of mine so he demanded out of his athletes and that's why they want the twenty whatever NCA champions in a row because he'd never led an athlete step on the Mat Louis they knew they were going to win so for you is your coaching this marketing sphere in his business realm and I wanNA make sure that you go in with the same thing. Don't step into a business unless you know you're GonNa be successful piano you to be successful in set back and spend some time on yourself on personal development element in understanding yourself and your own skill set leaving yourself enough. You can go out there and have success otherwise it's going to become it's difficult if I didn't no I was going to be successful every so they walking into the click puddles office five scared if I fear anxiety and things aren't there like their time definitely scared or nervous or excited or all those things you've been no step at the moment to be successful right at attacks growth congress step on the Mat. I knew I was GONNA. Be Successful Cain. You've watched the first one we did. I made three point two million in ninety minutes second failed. Kf fell flat on my face but regardless I stepped on stepped on stage at new. I was GONNA be successful. Cynthia hockey live other other places evening on selling on a Webinar like I don't go into like hoping it's going to be successful. I go in knowing him to be successful. that's the mindset. You've gotTa have and so if you don't have that mindset yet now I am. I be the thing that's holding you back. You're hoping you'll be successful because you're hoping you're you're. You're willing and able to let yourself off the hook and that's why you're not hitting the goals in the things you want so that is my message for you guys today. Is that for you to go out there into again uses for business visas as a metaphor for all aspects effects of your life right. There's the girl you want ask out on a date. If there's the the the business venture you wanted the partnership you WanNa do. There's the the the relationship whatever the thing is you got to step into that. Having absolute confidence absolute certainty knowing that when you step on the Mat you're GonNa win and if you do that your likelihood of winning we'll go up okay. It's it's the weirdest thing and you know be losing to my buddy over and over and over again because I had the seat of doubt in my mind that McMahon he always with beats me. Let alone the fact that all the people he loses to the because I I had this belief that he was going to beat me. He beat me and it was just that it was a belief and it's something that you can shift shift. You can change and I wish I would have understood that deeper level back then but I understand now. I want you understand now because it'll make your jobs your business your growth your relationship wherever you're looking for so much better when you go into with absolute certainty knowing you're going to win. and that's what message for today and without seven league is think about that and if you've enjoyed wait this please please please go to. I tunes subscribe to the podcast number one to leave a comment and and if you really liked it please screen shot of this posted on facebook instagram and and tag. Jimmy do at Russell Brunson and that will tag me on Instagram at Russell Brunson live. They'll tag me on facebook and and use HASHTAG marketing secrets here. He gets their thinking about this and other episodes that said appreciate. Y'All everything and I'll talk to you soon. Would you like to see behind the scenes what we're actually doing each day to grow our company. Ipsos so go subscribe to our free behind the scenes reality T._V. Show at W._W._W. Dot Hacker Dot TV.

Dan Gable Russell Brunson wrestling soccer Olympics facebook Boise League brewers US Mike I Ellie Iowa Mat Louis NCA Tom Michael Jordan Hawkeye Korea Seok