20 Episode results for "Toffler"

Law & Business Podcast Episode 53: A Plush Toy Client Begins with Consultants

Verna Law, P.C. � Intellectual Property Law Firm, Westchester County, New York

25:26 min | 1 year ago

Law & Business Podcast Episode 53: A Plush Toy Client Begins with Consultants

"Welcome to the seventh episode of our special miniseries with an ESA group. Jim Weta has a going. It's going well. I think we're making great progress. Great Conversation I hope the audience will enjoy some of the points that we're making. I hope so too Barry calls on failing failing better every time we get involved in this area. Thank hand actually. You've got more where I think that we've got a nice length of time to build relationships. Thank you thank you berry. Will Jake's CONNOISSEUR. How's it going know the Great Day? Great to be here. Wonderful Justin Trudeau de Brand King. I was going. I was wondering if I was going to get a title this time. I'm wonderful. Thank you Scott. Mountainair corporate attorney. I'm doing well. Thank you and I am with Harrington Avocado and monk before you ass managing partner Verno Law. So let's talk about a little. Let's talk a little bit. About the plush toy industry will and I have a lots of plush toy experience will you have written one pattern or is it multiple patents lawyer the plush toy you're currently holding nobody can see that you're holding it so crops goes crops? Don't do very well on audio but but you are holding the product. Well the audience can hear him. I ask so. Let's talk about the patent because it's been published so it is public so let's talk a little bit about the patent application that was made for this particular product what makes it so unique Very interesting And actually only one of the okay. So let's talk about the one that has been published but The plush toy industry has seen some innovation obviously over the last eight years But there's been very little has been done Recently I think we would look to Jennifer Toffler pillow pets as an example of an innovation and the plush toy space This particular toy actually tells a story around A. Let's say a fairytale figure that kids are familiar with but it provides that story By putting some elements or features as we patent folks like to call it into the plush toy. Okay so yeah just just tells a little bit about what the Patent Discloses Okay. So essentially what? The Patent Discloses is that This little bear allows you to take an object. Let's say it's a tooth for instance you're able to put this thing into the mouth this little bear and it drops down into a little chamber. Let's call it a heart section you know and and then The child is able to Kinda as we would like to say. It's a teaching toy share and care. So we're sharing and carrying their fall into the into this little toy and I there are some people who might have a problem wrapping their head around it but a lot of people do have their their baby teeth saved and so this is a container. That can do that as well as via toy as well as be a toy as well as allow the parents or even the child on the user to be able to access and take that to that object Out of the toy later on which is something that generally is not seen in a plush toy a plush toy it's a. I have to admit that combination is rare. You know to me that sounds like a unique selling proposition. Yes it is Inventors I I really like this particular product because the inventor was a home inventor An and she was spurred on To creating this toy actually based on a rather negative experience with their own child who was actually afraid Of of you know dealing with this fairytale figure you know in the middle of the night in so she came up with a way to kind of get rid of that fair but also bring some fun to the child so let. Let's talk a little bit about Our experiences because we Went around Toy Fair. Because last year was my tenth toy fair into this year's going to be my eleventh toy fair apart from representing Our firm You went around and you spoke to a lot of people about the first prototype for lack of a better phrase. Yeah not usual. But that's part of wood working with this group. Does you know you you start to take on a more interdisciplinary point of view With the products and the companies. That come to you. So you're not looking at it strictly as I'm going to write a patent What we want to do is to help realize value in the marketplace and of course the value is the thing we believe will sustain that over some period of time. Jim Let me let me ask you. What do you think of this approach of market research? I I mean on one hand. I see where it's smart on the other hand. I feel as if we'll went around asking a whole bunch of competitors. What do you think of this product that might be competing with you see? I don't see I don't see nothing wrong with that. As long as there's some kind of level of protection like if there is a patent and you have control of a patent you have a head start there so I don't see that to be a problem at all actually. I think that I would probably do the same thing but I had. One thing to say will put to bed down and walk away from the ought to turn. Yes IT IS I. I mean I mean I know that that there there's the protection there will what was some of the feedback that kind of the competitors that you talked to told you I mean. Obviously they don't they don't see this as a as a competing product because they spoke to you they gave you. They gave you opinions at a convention. But what was some of the feedback from from that I First attempt at a product. A Lotta veep. So we start with a concept so we're trying to patent or protect features around a concept I The next thing we want to do is to kind of see our next generation of the toy and so we have made some filings in particular area as well and that came from that sort of direct market research that we were doing so we would show features get feedback and then come back and think about that and innovate even further To allow ourselves to even file new patents to protect features that we kind of saw based on our interview. That would be coming down the line so essentially trying to increase the value of the toy going forward. Justin go ahead. I know you have thought one of the things I loved about what you did was. You went to the subject domain experts. People who live in the industry understand the industry the INS and outs the low nuances. That you can't just buy online research and that's a big thing for any business is if you are running a business and you don't have yourself to subject them and expertise surround yourself with it What you found During that walk through gave you insights to further develop the product not only from pan point of view but from a product point of view learning. About what a consumer and user might like and that's valuable information I think from our experience last year what struck me most was how many times people said that the first version of the toy looked like something that was old fashioned and while they understood that aesthetic. That's not what kids today are going to want. And therefore it's not what the parents of today are going to buy. So how do you have that conversation than will with the client on making the proper changes again part of that interdisciplinary type of thought that the Nessa Group would bring in so You know the utilitarian features were there. We had that covered as far as the patent was concerned The as as Justin mention somebody other issues that came came out was manufacturer ability. How do we do this thing quickly? How do we do it easily? How do we do it inexpensively? And lastly as you just question was well how do you let say dress it? You know what's what's its trade dress going to look like in the industry that will kind of aid in and provide that update. The client was absolutely wanted. Bess To work with because she was willing to listen she knew what she didn't know. She felt confident that she had employed people who were going to take her interest To heart and soul was easier than to kind of make the changes to bring this toy to where it is today Justin. How do you recommend that people who might have an idea in a certain area like this? But not have the expertise. Try to try to get some of that. Expertise try to talk to some competitors depending on the level of protection and what can be disclosed which needs to be seriously considered. I think there's a lot of different ways that you can gain insights You know most people on linked in if you're not heavily suggest you you look into getting on research. People within the industry research retired executives who worked at Hasbro or a notable toy company research market researchers within the industry and reach out to them and contact them. They're an impartial party. Who probably has the subject domain expertise? Maybe not the relationships and the contacts but can give you the information and whatever you find within that I think you have to complement and supplement. Were Consumer Research and consumer feedback as well. But that's a little later on but in terms of reaching those those industry experts you need to begin. Immersing yourself in that industry if you're going to be running business so start reaching out. Stormy can context even within businesses and startups. I've been a part of. We sat down spoke to our competitors in some cases you know that's not always the right thing to do depending on your industry and what you're looking to achieve but sometimes it is the best path best path forward. Jim What what opinions do you have on gaining that expertise because you've been in in a lot of different types of businesses? But you know sometimes there has to be something that you don't understand the technology for actually I I. I approached things that I don't know a lot of the things that I should know. And that's the reason I ask the questions. And that's the reason I think I build up on. What my resources of information. What can the research doing So does a good chance that anytime. You'll see me working in something like this. Then I'm probably talking to. People could be used as could be inventors constantly looking for those answers for people who. I consider MUCH SMARTER THAN THAT. I am in particular disciplines can I comp can I found that? I don't think the challenge is finding the answers. Think the challenge is asking the right questions to ask in the right order and at the right time Because we're you could have very easily win out of order. You could've went with the first prototype if you didn't have this walk through and potentially waste a lot of money in that first round of inventory. Absolutely that that I walk through at the the first Toy Fair actually taught us that we were trying to manufacture. Forget about the the outward facing features of the toy. We were headed down the wrong road and so we immediately went back in and actually did not work with the first manufacturing company that we had not that they might not have gotten there but in terms of speed to market. We decided to go with a different manufacturer. What were some of the qualities from one manufacturer to another that you and the client we're looking at. I'm an engineer right. Yes I know you're because last time I would go. Hey Hey is this. Plastic number four. Is this plastic number five and told the materials out perfectly our first time together toy fair rocket science but but sometimes you know that sort of engineering technical critical thought can get in the way and in so. Wh wh what we found was that it wasn't so much about what the materials were. You know how we were going to make it. What type of Fancy Three D. machinery we were going to use? Which is where the first manufacturer That's the line that he was headed down so it sounded really good. It sounded like the white way to approach doing this toy. And then What the inventor. We took a step back in realized that what she had done was actually went to a goods store. She went to a novelty shop. She grabbed a hold of all of her little items and she actually made the first prototype at her kitchen table. Wow and so what we did was in the discussions with the other manufacturer. Who realized that those things were not Taken lightly they decided. Well how do we duplicate that without all the fancy fancy expensive machinery which wasn't needed in this particular case short? That's the direction. The new direction in manufacturing was sealed. And is that the manufacturer going forward once. The product is absolutely positively ready for sale in manufacturer. Us going with the same factory. Then you know I grew up In in the navy as an engineer in so Iran projects and one of the first things. I realized that I tell my inventor. This is what we have today but we will always Attempt to find a second source and so at some point after we've gotten to a launch Then we'll start to look around. You know we'll start to kind of understand what our cost and then look to other manufacturers to come on board potentially very and to tie this into our fifth episode in the in this miniseries we were talking about manufacturing issues for that company as wealth. What are some of what? What some of the advice that you would have for a company making plush toys and dealing with factory. Well I think it starts imagining what you want. Just sit down and try and come up with something that you started with this and you've modernized it. I think the other thing is where you manufacture. It is very very important. Oh sure that they're very competent their timely and they make a good product. And I think really you have to go down almost like any company and ask them questions. I I'm very much reminded of of an episode of my own podcast of where I had a conversation with a friend and colleague named John Eastwood John is a partner at a law firm. Eiger law in Taipei. And if you are working with Speaking of WHO to work with if you are working with Chinese factories having a law firm that's in Taipei and Shanghai You know is very important but more important than that. John used to always in in all of his writings and in that. That conversation with emphasized the relationship between the business owner and the factory that that in China infringements happened. Because there's a breakdown between the factory owner and the business owner like you need to have that relationship and you know you know very what you just said reminded me of that because you need to have that relationship no matter who your factory is no matter what factory is and you want to see that as well. Yes absolutely so. How's the relationship then with with the factories that you're looking at well? Well great relationship to start reason to believe that that will deteriorate. Okay Okay we leave open the possibility hence why you would always want to at least look to other sources Overtime I mean. I have one question with the manufacturing. What is it? That's a consideration when it comes to tooling for something like this. What is it the pieces that you have to look at well again? That's a great question Jim. Because even though it's a plush toy we have hardware Residing within this plush toys so Once we get past Kinda early short runs Production runs then. We'll look to moldings. You know being bought. We'll we will be looking at more sophisticated handling you know machinery in order to make sure that these hard pieces get placed in the right spot on a very soft piece so that that line. Kinda runs a smoother feeling of certain level of intricacies of what you have there looks very simplistic but you have something going to channel dumping of access to the back of his law things going on there which I would. There's a fair amount of things going on and if you can imagine trying to put a hard good onto a cloud just I know that you had a thought about this. I was just curious and you guys might not have considered this yet but what sales channels do you see this being sold on you a direct to consumer ECOMMERCE brand? Are you looking to go wholesale and get into brick and mortar facilities? That's an that's a great question Justin and as one that you'll be hit with a little bit later but you know it's always been the mantra of people I work with and certainly my mantra that As we said in a previous episode if you want to attract the attention of large distributors of you want to attract the attention of other would be licensees than I always suggest you start out by generating a track record yourself with that and saying the limited that I've learned from from this product and the company and the Founder Story to be told there's a narrative round wide this was created and the benefits of doing so and online content. Online sales will probably be as you just said you best mechanism to get started. Yeah there's a website that's already in production at it. It's not a open for the public to see at this particular point only because we are waiting for the first set of orders To come in from our manufacturers so we want to kind of time it properly not get too much head one of the advantages of course of this toy. Is that since? We're talking about children and losing teeth that it's evergreen in children are born every month and they lose teeth every month and so it's not tied to a particular holiday. It's not tied to a particular time of year. It is You know a a kind of evergreen product that's being sold Year round so we have the freedom and the option to kind of introduce the toy to the market. You know from a marketing perspective. The analytic set facebook and instagram provide. You is a gold mine terms of people reporting when they're pregnant having kids to d decades birthdays. You know how the how old they are. You know that a kid around x number of age old is GonNa start losing teeth and you can really refine your marketing and be super targeted to reach them. The NASA group will be working with the news. I think we'll be Scott. Let me what you have a one to twelve model. You mean from from one year to to twelve years old one to twelve years old. I think would be a reasonable thing but I think hey. Here's my first year tooth which still look back on and say no. I want a five year tooth. Put My too thin at his fifth year. When they're getting changed in the mountains getting form you know and as I look at the bear. Did you refuse to go? He's my different things. Come to my mind. What are the other uses other ideas you come up with with the same mechanism? Yes and they I I think there is a slew of that that can go on and it doesn't have to be for kids. I'm thinking Valentine's Day. What is it that you can cleverly do Valentine's with a heart and all that kind of stuff that you're thinking about? How would that work? And what can you put into it? There's a whole bunch of yes there are there are other uses which actually goes back to our previous episode and talking about you know if you want to be a license. Or what are some of those thoughts that you had in there as well? Scott let me let me ask you this. If if a company like this came to you and said they they're looking for vc because they need to fund the purchase orders that are coming in. They've got this grady. Obviously there's a little market traction because of that What are some of the questions that you're asking them in order to help them set up properly? In order to keep growing? The real question is become uses of capital so I would want them because obviously when you raise more money. There's a dilution effect to the current owners. So you really want to think about what is the amount of capital you need to get to the next stage? And and what are those uses going to be at this point? I think it's just was saying is going to be a lot of marketing and sort of sales channels to look at that. You're going to have to build out probably your sales team and look at your different Sort of online apps and things like that where people can sell product and and that would be where you'd want most efficiently work with and and frankly you know until you have some decent traction in the market you're going to get diluted a little bit more but you're going to certainly be able to raise money and and be able to push this to market pretty easily. I would think go ahead Justin. You raise a very good point. I think we touched upon this in the last two episodes which is the need for business planning to understand what to find success Any business young or old has limited has resources that have termination date the not properly used as a startup will who you're working with. They have limited resources with those resources with the inventory. You're buying in the marketing dollars. You can put a put behind it. You need to get somewhere. Where is that somewhere? What defines success. Is it going for another round of funding or that? Your first rounder. Funding is being able to be self sufficient and produce revenue organically Any business starting off does need to take an interdisciplinary. Look at what their business model is. What their plan is and what to find success. What are their? Kpi's and the episode five? We talked about a business that didn't seem to have that in place. They were kind of spinning their wheels. They don't they didn't understand how to leverage their resources to define success how to lower their overhead and increase their revenue so the business planning process is continuous. From your first day of conceptualization. To the day you decide to sell a close the doors you're constantly thinking ahead to the next evolution of Your Business and what that is defined by. Thank you very much justin. And on that note we will wrap up this discussion. Which seems like a success to me. Jim I will tell you how to reach over. Www DOT com. And hopefully we'll have a lot of you folks getting in touch with us. Thank you thank you Jim and thanks everybody. We'll see a for our final episode of the miniseries soon. Michelle did you get a picture. I I hope you got to.

Justin Trudeau Jim Scott engineer Jim Weta ESA Jake Barry attorney managing partner Taipei business owner Verno Law Hasbro Michelle Jennifer Toffler John Eastwood John Valentine Jim I
#41 A provoking, plausible, and desirable future

Technoculture

33:05 min | 11 months ago

#41 A provoking, plausible, and desirable future

"Culture welcome to a new episode of techno culture. I'm but a sam and today. I'm here with toshi. Enders who director of the emerging media lab at these stood for the future in palo alto california. Thank you for being on technicolor here. So the institute for the future is a non-profit thing thank established in nineteen sixty eight with the aim of studying emerging media trans to make hypothesis about possible futures but also to inform discussion of issues that society needs to face today could do qualify the focus that your specific lab has also in the frame of the institute. Sure a happy to do that So at institute for the future we have a number of different labs everything from the future of health feature of food feature of governance And my lab is called the emerging media lab as you mentioned and our focus is really around human connection collaboration and communication Through mediated technologies are mediated experiences And in some ways. It's a little bit redundant in the sense that i f. t. f. as you mentioned was founded in nineteen sixty. Eight and our founders. Several of our foundress were part of the rand corporation. Another thing tank in here in the united states and they were engineers and scientists working on the first cut of the predecessor to the internet. The arpanet and they were very interested. You know initially know. The the internet or the arpanet was created to create resiliency around communication networks primarily for for military purposes right and the kind of as a result like. How would we deal with a nuclear war. How could we maintain communication systems throughout that idea of a distributed. Communications network was kind of the foundational concept there and Several our founders. Were working on some of the foundational technologies for that packet switching which is basically the idea of just wrapping data in a like a universal packet. That allows kind of like a shipping container as you move through Seamlessly and friction ously friction leslie through all sorts of Standardized networks but this was data and arguably does two things packet switching and shipping containers have globalized world today right. It allows us to transmit information and things around the world in ways that were very difficult before but these folks who were working on the early arpanet they realized. Oh well you know. Maybe the internet thing might be useful for things beyond just military and academic use cases. The time there was like maybe six nodes on the entire internet and so they spun off institute for the future To to look at what. We're going to be the larger societal impacts of this new communication information. Networks were developing. How's this going to affect education. How's this going to affect domestic life. Social life All these different areas outside of just military and academic. So i bring that history just wanted to provide some context but also to say even though my lab was started when i was recruited to join. Ftf in two thousand sixteen. It's very much part of the legacy of not only the institute. All the labs are kind of looking at. You know even like the health lab is looking at. How does information technology of ubiquitous computing. How do these new all these technologies impact specifically Health in that case. I'm looking more. Broadly and the lab. Even though i have to focus is around long term features were typically looking at a ten year sometimes. Twenty year horizon The emerging media lab is tracking. And i have have does this general we. We are tracking. Were database. So we're looking at emergent because signals of signals of change that are happening in reserve small stories or occurrences. Maybe new technology may be new law. Maybe a new social behavior that may not appear on a radar may not be established enough to kind of qualify as a trend but We through our methodologies which we can talk about more we develop these into what we call forecasts and You know Actually when i first started the idea was that using kind of these emerging competition systems we were going to be able to predict future and we spent i think about fifteen years as organization tried to do that until at one point we wrote up Kind of seminal paper for us where we said well looks actually. No one can predict the future. And since then we been less about you know predicting the future and more around. How can you think. More creatively more strategically and more provocatively about the future. Partially because number one there is no one future out there right. There's many possible futures. So it's really a possibility space and a also because You know it's less about predicting the future. Of course everyone wants to be able to predict the future but once you understand that you can't that the most important thing is how do you respond to all these different possibilities. And how do you understand in this day and age in which we see kind of rapid change and transformation economically environmentally politically. Where more and more changes happening. How do organizations institutions individuals communities build up their resiliency and part of our philosophy around that is that we need to help human beings and organizations that they're in think again more creatively strategically about the future and it turns out. If you look at the neuroscience humans are pretty bad at thinking about the future And this is a problem. So that's why you have to create kind of frameworks and methodologies and practices in order to do that and that's really kind of the fundamental core of the work that i have t.f does a lot of the work i do. In the emerging media lab is looking at emergent signals and And not just kind of looking at them on the online and reading about them but we bring in a lot of the emerging new media technologies like virtual reality augmented reality artificial intelligence You know a new types of sensors and we tried to get henson hands on experiences. Because for i have jeff. That's been around for this long You know lot of these technologies from the kind of inception of the end of the institute thinking about okay. Someday the internet will be placed. Where we're going to be have millions of people commuting or or learning or shopping or voting even Now that's here and for some of the technologies that are lab is focusing over the last two years or three years Virtual reality augmented reality again. These have been far off horizons right. An augment- artificial intelligence. Another one of those. It's been kind of things that you might see in a lab or read a paper. About what might you know. See see plenty of science fiction movies around and now a lot of these things want once. Science fiction are suddenly becoming practical realities and people are needing ways to understand that how to parse it to do sense making. They need to figure out how to engage as an organization as an individual. And then what i think. What many of us are recognizing kind of the whole world is recognizing is. We're at this kind of interesting time in history. In which in some ways we're kind of receiving these superpowers right the ability to kind of see anything anywhere in the world to go anywhere through virtual reality to control life itself through biotechnology. And at this moment were kind of being given these powers of almost like god like powers. We're also kind of simultaneously feeling like we're on the verge of right. And why is that and i think this is A question that we looked very deeply into in our we have annual tenure forecast event is our big annual research gathering and every year. There is a theme in that last year. The theme was exactly that like. How is it that we're kind of in inheriting or developing these superpowers while simultaneously feeling the sense of collapse. So we are part of. My work is not just looking at technology but also looking at the kind of mythology of media right so if you think of stories and mythologies the way that humans have made sense of the world. It's the way we map. The world's the where we model the world so we understand ourselves in the world. The way understand are really ship to other people. it's way we understand relationship to the world. It's the way we understand our relationship to mysterious things. These are all the functions of myth like just campbell but talk about That right now where at this time where we have to kind of draw on. There's a lot of mythologies around power is being given to humans and are kind of bumbling ways and some of the many of the unintended consequences that that bubble up so this is a very long winded way of saying that are at our lab at one level. We're looking at emerging technologies like virtual reality and augmented reality. We're doing prototyping doing research. We're doing design experiences working with artists to explore. What the potential is there. We're talking to social scientists and wide range of people try understand. What are the kind of short term impact and where the opportunities but also really looking at. Okay what are the ethics. What are the kind of longer term impacts of this and houses transforming us and one of the things might. My career has been looking at emerging media for many years. And there's a pattern. That's well known when you look at emerging media formats is that there's always a period when a new media. Technology comes out that you just imitate. We've done before so the classic example is You know when radio came out the first thing to do is radio place right. Partial part of that. Is you have the script already actors. I do that you have audiences who understand what play is all these things are kind of there and it helps you kind of figure out how to use this new technology without kind of reinventing what the content is and not really fully leveraging. The new afford ince's what it gets really interesting is when you kind of get that bit basic literacy and kind of technical proficiency and you're able to do something you couldn't do before so what were really interested in what i've been interested in my entire career working with the merchant. Medias you know media has very you know literally like dazzling right. So there's a new new media has has a novelty quality to it so it's hard not transported like oh. I'm putting virtually headset. I'm in another world so my kind of passion and practices always been. How do we look. Beyond the novelty factor. Study these new media technologies understand. What are the new interactions or the new afford. Ince's what are the things we do with these media formats where where's the new paradigm that's different than previous. And then as i mentioned if you believe that kind of storytelling us how we understand the world and how we mapped the world and that metaphors are kind of the building blocks stories. The question really the poorest to all the work that i do and have done before even said i have is. What are the new stories that we can tell. What are the new conversations. We can have that we couldn't have before. And so that's what. I'm very interested in so just to give some examples of that with virtual reality. This is not just a experiential media. So you're you're you you feel sense of presence there. So what is your relationship rather than kind of being outside observer to something a framed movie or abstract taxed. You're like you perceive your there so you have all these other faculties not just your kind of abstract cognitive mind symbolic mind. You have your embodied cognition. What is it here. we we've learned we. We don't just think with our minds. We think with our bodies we think socially we think with our environment's so these are the kinds of things that we're really interested in. What does it mean when you're able to have a sense of presence in these worlds and what does it mean when you're able to right now most. Vr experiences are solo isolated experience. What does it mean when it starts being a collaborative communicated connective space and then kind of on the other side of that when you talk about like how these being who owns these who creates those futures That's a really good question. I mean we're very much about like what we would call distributed futures william gibson. The science fiction writer has a famous quote. That says you know the future's already here just not evenly distributed and so my unofficial motto from for ifp f. is just like futures distributed so how you know we we. We look at the big companies. What they're doing. But what our co small artists kenya doing you know or What are all the different kind of features that are being created where all the facets of that and one of the challenges that we have right now is all these different technologies. i mentioned like for reality. Augmented reality a they're in a very interesting inflection point right now because they're transitioning from being in labs and experimentation space to being widely commercially distributed so people have been working in a for decades. The has been around for decades. What's different right now. is it's becoming commercialized. And so many people will say. Technology is a tool so it's kind of neutral on. Does it depends on what you do with it. I would say that's true when you're in a small scale. Experimental environment where artist or researcher could kind of do anything with it and could be good or bad when you add into that like market driven forces or in the case of china like a like political forces you know the technology takes on the power structure the values of those kind of scaling forces. So when you look at where we are now we're kind of not in that utopia that many actually many of the thinkers of here in silicon valley. And even i if we're kind of imagining where which are very possible futures and and are true in many ways of like that we're kind of that networked can consciousness and communication was gonna lead to human evolution at a new kind of The democratization of and liberation while at the same time. We're also living in surveillance society and even we call. It supports economy now. So there's lots of really interesting things popping up really interested in kind of exploring the possibility spaces and really word of them. Impacts across lots of different sectors loss of inter different facets for humans. That was long answer. Something that seems to emerge pretty clearly is that we talk a lot about ecology and we like it would like to play with it and experiment but ultimately it's never about the technology so it's about new social behaviors or how it changes the game for for us. How do you balance in your daily activity in planning your research. These two components also developed technology. Here that takes a lot of resources. That can get very exciting. So how do you also balance. Keep a focus on the social aspect. The human aspect. It's really good question. I think we're we're kind of in the middle of or hopefully at the end of a phase of technological boom in which you know we've seen kind of the distillation over the last two decades or so This information age blowing up a lot of it has been around like what can we do what is possible. And it's been a very exciting period for technologists developers business people now because suddenly things with digital technology one of the forces of it has scales wildly in ways that physical objects and systems. Don't what we're finding though is that. Maybe there's this kind of move fast break. Things has some very serious consequences or even the ethos of like disrupt right or even the of innovate right. There's that's been know throughout. I've had a career over the last twenty years like ten years ago. Even innovation arms of companies were kind of kind of considered like a side project of you know especially if it was more traditional company. And what i've seen and what we've all seen over the last. Let's say ten years. Is this gradual shift to where companies even traditional companies are expected to innovate or die right so now innovation has gone from being kind of the side practiced puts out some cool. Pr things that you're doing wild concept cars or whatnot to like okay. If i don't show them innovating every quarter. I'm going to get pummeled in the stock market right. This is kind of like or. I'm gonna get disrupted by like you know. Ten twenty year olds and in a basement somewhere. Just click on keyboards. So where at this period. Where i think were hopefully be getting more conscious and were starting to ask questions like well. Should we be creating this and yes we can create this now today and we're moving fast. But what what are what are we. What are the drawn out consequences of this. What are the unintended possible. Unintended consequences of this. And that's a that's a lot of what our practices in in terms of our foresight methodologies. We say mentioned earlier we do forecasting here right. We create forecasts. So what's our definition of forecast right. 'cause forecasts can take many different shapes and form factors and even scopes. My favorite definition is wanna. I didn't come up with it but this kind of shared throughout the is forecast is a provocative but plausible statement about the future. That helps us make decisions today and so. Let's unpack that for a moment right. So provocative implausible right. So you can make a statement about the future. I could say like you know robots are going to you know start self replicating and the crater new race and Transform the entire surface of the earth and into robot robotic territory would that somewhat provocative today. But if it's something you've heard before it's not going to spur you to think about future and remember what i said before earlier. It's the foresight practice. At least the way we we practice. It isn't about me. Fake giving you a mentality or set of methodologies to know what's going to happen it's more about. How do you see as i said before bad at thinking about the future. So how can it help us. Think outside of our current mental picture of the way things are and what we think the way things are going to be right and so you want to have something you want to have a forecasts. Provocative should be make you think about new things but we also believe it should be plausible. Like if i said like in the future you know Bide or no orange trees are going to grow to a million miles large and crush the earth like. Yeah okay that's somewhat. Provocative is not plausible. Anyway so how do you create what we call a chain of plausibility. And that's where it. When i mentioned signals come in. How do you look at kind of small emergent trends. They may not actually succeed. What could they suggest. How can you create these chains of possibility so one of the tools we use toolkit that we that we not only us but we also teach here is something called. sometimes we refer to as futures we. Elvis is kind of common in the foresight world But we called we. We call our exercise of the The tool drying at consequences take signal like something like you know today. Let's say like researchers have found a way to pull power electricity from thin. Air using these carbon nanotubes and these compounds. So you'd look at something like that might have somebody is. How do you draw like first second third order consequences so that you can begin to see like what's the chain possibility of an to get to more provocative statement So part of what we do is like you know you wanna look at kind of negative and positive consequences. You want to look at the complexity party. Why you're doing this. Also say like what are kind of our agency points in and our clients tend to be for the most part. I mean we we were. We're a nonprofit so we do a lot of public facing work but our our clients are members are tend to be large companies and government agencies. So they actually have pretty big levers around the products they decide to make the policies of they decide to put out And that's a lot of what we're trying to get them to ask as like okay. What are you know the. there's him. Alvin toffler the famous future. Said like there's kind of three types of futures there is probably fisher's there's a preferable futures and there's plausible futures so for plausible futures. You need artists to think of like what's what's like what's what's possible like all the possibilities right you could be creative mind for probable futures. You need statisticians and mathematicians for preferable futures. You need politicians because you need to think about okay like. Here's all the possibilities. Here's what might happen. But what do we want as people as the humanity so we try to help organizations kind of integrate. These foresight practices in them have better conversations with their stakeholders whether they're government or a corporation. We've developed more recently A what's called ethical. Os toolkit it's a toolkit that's available online ethical s dot org and it's basically a set of tools to kind of do an audit business or project or initiative. You might do to think about like what might be the longer-term implications how could this could either. Maybe be built on kind of a faulty premise of things that might lead to a bad place. Or how could this be exploited by bad actors and by no means that kind of an end. All be all tool. But it's the beginning of one of many efforts by us and other organizations. You're trying to think about okay. Technology isn't just an evolve into a good place. We have to actually curate. This we have to you know humans need constraints and rules and we also need freedom unless question who makes the future we as a general public. I would argue receive the new technology. Well passively we receive it. that's the thing. The new iphone appears on the market. And we go by it. The ipod at some point was on the market and we bought it. Nobody really asked for it before so we received this things but they changed how we live. We use them in everyday life. So the people who make the technology impact our life. Can you estimate the impact that the technology you make yourself. I don't wanna focus on the technology made here with the the makers of technology and also then the forces on the market how much of that actually produces a future for us determines. That was a very long question. Did they make sense it does. There's about seven questions and that Let me see if i can answer this. I mean at a very high level. I just i just returned from dubai. One of the most features for countries in the world and they're opening up the The museum of the future. They're beautiful unusual oxymoron museum of the future right. Why not right. I can't wait. Can't we think about it right at. The museum doesn't have to be things from the past. Right it can be a the reimagining. What even museum is. But what's really interesting is that it's a beautiful building to look it up online curved and it's very unusual shape and it's covered with arabic text in it's a collection of poems but essentially like the the the the core concept. There is a quote that from the leader of of dubai says the future belongs to those who can imagine it and create it and that's a loaded statement right. I remember i said earlier. Like people who invented some of the practice of future ism in the future shock was his famous book. The of talk about where you're talking about is like future shock culture shock but you can never go home right because you're always traveling forward or you can never go back. He what he was saying when he says the probable plausible and preferable is that there is a huge political component to this right so When you look at even something for example the internet itself right like today. We kind of think of the internet is like you know. At and t. r. t. mobile who are united states. Who provide your network services and these kinds of big corporations and whatnot. Of course you know we. The people in the united states like paid for that. The taxpayers paid for that. And if you look to the history of this technology that's kind of were originally started And there used to be a lot more balanced between kind of a sense of public good and kind of private good and we've kind of lost that in the united states. If you look at of the history of even just something like television right like the big companies that you know. I got access the public airwaves. In the united states. They had to agree to basically do provide a public service. We've lost that. Certainly in the united states. And there's a kind of you know there's a particularly over the last maybe decade or so when we've kind of seen this flood of consumer cheap consumer technologies that i think for a while like really fascinated us. I bet a lot of us. Were like pretty amazed too. I remember i got my first iphone like wow. I don't have to be at my computer. I can just do email anywhere and now today. I'm like oh my god. I got an email with me every day. It's follows me everywhere. I go so i think part of it is were exporting one phase of kind of fascination and novelty in recognizing what the true impact for example one of the things i talked about as everyone talks about how we live in connected society. I think if you hear someone talking about how connected we are. I would say think about i in my mind say replaced the word connected with interrupted. Are we that. Much more connected. I have the potential to connect with anybody at any moment. Pretty much anywhere in the world but am i. Am i connecting from deplace. Am i able to be myself or am i. Just kind of is my brain everywhere. What we find is a lot of research on this is that we're mostly interrupted right now. We're actually not connected. So you know human humanity you know like just to go back to kind of the mythological roots. There's many stories about kind of like you know the the hubris of of youth and being juvenile and kind of being given a new power. I think that humanity is kind of they're like we're being given this incredible power to communicate and see anything anywhere and We're not we haven't we haven't quite figured out what the implications of that are. Some of us have and are leveraging that and two very very powerful ways if you look at the way. China's government is putting out their plan for a like. You know that's a who who owns that that in that in that society. It's very clear like you know the chinese government. The communist party is like in control of everything and they're going to own that future and they're playing that out in america we're kind of living you know like we have a market economy essentially and We're we're seeing kind of the good and bad of that so it's a you know that that we could have a day-long weeklong conference discussing that But i would say kind of in short. I think at at our best are kind of our goals here at ifc. T.f is to empower the world. To think more creatively strategically about the feature and that means everyone. We think the world is going to be a better place. If everyone is able to think more creatively and strategically about the future and were able to do that. Collaboratively well every generation society in a different way always things. They're the pinnacle of human evolution. Right do you think that you know it will keep accelerating that in twenty years we will look back and think how behind we were or we are now living. Some sort of peak moment of technological advancement. I often think about that. I kind of think that we are just at the verge. At the beginning of a whole new era is took them. Well that's undetermined whether or not it's best But i think clear clear. We're not at the end of the line. For what we can do. Creatively with technology. And i'm not just talking about digital technology. I'm talking about transforming our world and the tools that we make us. I think what we're hitting right now. Which may trigger a new direction in love. The technological development is we're reaching our planetary limits right as you know. We can't the world's not an endless wastepaper basket and it's not an endless resource and were were collectively as a as many as a species are recognizing hitting planetary limits. And that kind of this idea of a kind of the capitalist ideal of like eternal growth right life systems. Don't work that way. Planet is living system. Humans are part of that living system. Companies are part of that living system. But we're not operating within the living the principles of living systems and a lot of kind of some of the technology actually a of the technology particularly consumer technology or consumer technology to create consumer goods has created a bike an unsustainable on continual bowl situation for humanity could foresee that one. Yeah well a lot of people did plausible future. Not the most preferable probably not the most preferable yes. So i think we're having to redefine what what those futures are going to be. I think the idea of like oh you know this kind of fascination just kind of like a teenager might get their car for the first time i in stoppable i can do anything like yeah but you actually what not only what are the limits of the world but what are your responsibilities to the world yourself your community and i think that's what those are the bigger questions right now. That are going to drive the bigger societal shifts political shifts the policy shifts. You know we have all this potential that literally changed life itself to to to to you know build all these self replicating technologies to you know. Go literally to mars all these things but what are we trying to do is humanity. And how are those reflecting the kinds of values that we need to survive on this planet and a lot of our focus of effort. Now willing gibson who i quoted earlier also recently came out and said anybody. Who's doing you know. Basically futures work that and creating forecast don't integrate climate change. We're going to look back at those and then realize that these were kind of worthless because this is part of the context that we're in right now and this is at a global planetary existential scale that we're not gonna tweet our way add of right so these are very complicated questions. I think we're at this beginning of this kind of inflection. Point where we're many of us are starting to realize like. Oh you know like for fan facebook for example like oh great. I'm connected the whole world. But what does that really mean who again you're asking who owns this feature You know who you know. We've got all this free stuff you know. I think we're at the end of like you know some some people phrase like we been at work at the end of the phase of kind of Getting everyone connected getting ruined to adopt digital communication technologies and a lot of that has been done through what they call and retail. Lock leaders like free stuff. We've gotten so much free stuff just like why wouldn't we all want free stuff right and now we're realizing well what the price is. And what kind of the the consequences might be for that and it's going to be challenging because we've got these big behemoths that have got built massive market driven forces that are global forces. Now you know even break up a company like facebook like does that really solve our problems and whatnot. So i'm not trying to vilify anyone. I'm just saying human humanity as his at a very complicated point. And i think we're going to have to do some serious maturing and we're in many of us are trying to figure out what that looks like thank you very much for being technicolor. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to technicolor. Check out more episodes at technical dash. Podcast dot com or visit our facebook page at technicolor protest and our twitter account cash dougie technicolor podcast.

institute for the future united states toshi Enders palo alto henson ince leslie Ince william gibson campbell california jeff silicon valley kenya Alvin toffler dubai Elvis china fisher
#38 - It's Okay to Not Be Okay :)

The Entwistle Podcast

48:21 min | 8 months ago

#38 - It's Okay to Not Be Okay :)

"Hello everyone you're listening to podcasts. Spotify apple podcasts in today's episode. I'm joined by well. A returning guest guest tells you are or spicy ninety s anxiety muster From cleaning to july last year. Think maybe i think it was under the july fu so gourmet. Because you know we're february twenty one though. How have you been. Haven't i genuinely haven't spoken to you. In that time mental your last year was up and down. A think around the time i increased my met so i went from twenty milligrams to fight milligrams Tokyo a lot by Often a lot of feel normal which is awesome fantastic light. I mean i want to come up with these mats. no. I know. I get that. Yeah but it's more. Like i mentioned in i remember. I remember speaking to you. About how i've sworn off going onto medicare and the other things i've tried have worked some of her husband and i think with medication feeling normal something that i wish i could feel all the time but ultimately i know that i could go and see a therapist or some station. I knew i'm not. I'm not in the middle of national lockdown. We don't know what was going to happen in the next year. I know the people you know. Twenty million people who have been boxer in the uk alone out the first dosage. And you know we don't know whether it's going to work but certainly promising right. And i know i could. I will go and see someone about this this year. Let's get it sold on. But i think we'll keep telling myself i'm gonna find somebody another date of global pandemic out exactly. Yeah yeah find basin partners. Yeah i think that's why so many people have struggled during this lockdown on. I honestly i don't want to think about you. Know the suicide rates Everything going up. Because you know it's upsetting to think about isn't it but the crew out is ultimately this. I don second down the racer absolutely through. Yes them i mean. I'm i'm lucky in the sense that i'm not lying. Live line whereas low people. How fake ellen autonomy This time since scary different as to know Shuttling to when you have a choice. You can't socialize concept here but has been very weird. I remember the star of the first load on it was. It was good for a money thing. I'll have to go to work. i stay home. I play sold out. And then i kind of wore an and you think this is really awful. This hopping here. And i mean there's so much that we have to catch up on in the respects of what we think up to how we've dealt with these different things but ultimately the look. I mean the period wherever sport last time you know in national uncertainty. I think the football was just balk at that stage and it was quite. It was quite a weird thing to get your head around just everything getting back to normal and then it was always going to be okay. Yeah it's all gone worse and then you don't hear and i mean it it's weird there's a roadmap out from now. We can only hope that it's going to get better. Yeah exactly. I mean less time spike football was just coming back. I think in things onto as little bit for all the coming through the soon it's gonna be Went ahead and things think west who boy ahead but like you say the right maps in place now on if people just stick to patient and you know again these jobs dumb than hopefully five hundred farmers. It'll be a thing of the past. We can just look back inside happened is done. Taunted about sooner monterey Tom round 'cause you're gonna be different to what else we're the scares me and only because it's just you know is anything going to be the same know. Can i go and play football with my mates in like an indoor sports centre. Kelly gordon can i go to concerts and festivals and stuff like his. Yeah i guess we have to wait and see what they was. Let's show yeah when you think about it. If people are immunized the bugs or the virus could very well die out. Yeah of course while about unlikely. I mean it's possible thing. That's the the whole business. It will just they sent ice Stop people gathered so the varsity out within its states. if they'd be tightness wave is not a. I'm not a medical but anyway we can only hope that we can go back to football match rule festival or come here here. Well i booked tickets to the weekends during a rotor. easing glasgow. so i've tickets for as november twenty two. So i mean i have basically fifteen fourteen fifteen months over on excited for that but is it going to be like. Are we going to be. Are we going to be magic because along be twenty twenty three stage. Everything will be pretty much to normal but even thinking about being in a large room with lots of people it makes me feel a little uncomfortable. I presume everyone else listening. You know i'll watch. I'm an old movie. And i'm thinking god berbick close to your tax moscow watch tv and such sort of rolling doesn't it generally. It's on ahead. stop days. What we've got now is noble. Cause it's not we're just used to it exactly exactly it. Ultimately i think with us though we've had a little bit more freedom than the past one because the story was you can't go out unless you go for shopping and when you do only one person can go out right but now i mean i'm seeing kids escape park. I'm seeing beaches parked slice. Just it's it's weird because all the flaunting the rules or the you know finding loop holes in them and and get do their own stuff. It's i mean we discussing. How fuss look down like there was no traffic the out on the streets you know. Nothing was like everything was shut down. Everybody was staying on this time rounds. Traffic doesn't seem to be any different. People are ever rates people using that common sense to steiner from overnight. But it's it's definitely been a change in athlete Probably down to the way that things have been handled by the government unite. Like when the Last night dharam owning dominate coming. I for some reason cancer. So i don't know why he definitely didn't do that stuff out like they let him get y you know. He didn't leave his six months People pay attention to what they wanna day. It's a bit weird. Thought you create in the rules but your phone on the rouge yourself and it was the whole scandal with the pups there. The pub bristol open. Apostasy certain time in the parliament buildings. Just thing You you know you thought the rules. And i think when you fly with the rules when you're at the top guys when people will get angry rightfully so i mean it's ridiculous. I mean i miss the pub- you know as much as the next. I'm sure everyone else would kilter to be an opposition to go to the ultimately. We all can't do it so the people who made the rules go well. You can't do it by works now. Total ten but the apartment while ridiculous pines as well by the way i didn't really really stated union. I hope not really. Yeah well you know. We're we're a couple minutes now. And i wanted to basically because we have been dove into it and way. This is the part to The follow up of the normalizing mental health conversation. I posted an instagram last night. We will form instagram. There'll be a link to the number highly. Recommend you do because you know everything was down and so great fun and everything. I'll read you the post nonetheless. So in this post i said in one of the slides. You are not alone from my own experience. I know what it's like to feel the and how horrible. I can actually feel lots of other people in the world. Feel like you do and it's not a bad thing talking about your mental health. People should be as normal as town. What you did in the day talking about people scores or how you goes sucked into the void of tiktok again. Tiktok ghetto takes seriously my i. I actually have to stay away from it because when you when you start you don't really you really dangerous. Yes very addictive. A main last lockdown I mean every month. That dog seems optic talk. You just have to from today. What people are doing tiktok. He young tiktok Grandma with sarah. Yeah it has been discussion about mental health journalist this whole pandemic niagara as being swept under the comp all from outside love island or something on that talk to unac- something easily miss the mental health in fiesta. Maidment voice johnson docile very Good but saw Sixty year old man In prison for murdering his wife after five days in first lock down because he was struggling. Mommy five ties in exactly. Yeah he was sent to prison. of these amounts lords diminished responsibility because he's mental health people struggling and failing About provability thousands optima absolutely especially Still frowned upon for month to control of and say actually on struggling. I'm not yeah. Let's talk about the the biggest thing change my time Famous side are struggling. You know about this. It's because there's no. It's not weakness thing i don't really ultimately when when this is the reason why i'm doing those because i wanted to. Kind of reassure people that everything is going to be okay. I don't know whether you could really down one and then you go online and then you have him. You've been feeling donald day. I feel don about that other wise and then in terms of caught on this. I've got a youtube twitter. And i've seen people in common sections and wherever you all have the same thing as me and sometimes it's quite reassuring for someone to for you to hear someone else say i. This is totally normal. You know. don't worry about it. There's because then you realize your south thought yeah is willing good people telling you know alone people viewers but you know in in opposition. The they might not know thought but then when they go out and find out themselves usually makes everything that little bit more easier think. Having mental health difficulties is like an elastic band. And you've got a pool in it right. Any moment can snap more tension going to snap and snapping. Obviously don't want to say what is obviously know as your the best thing to do. Is the therapy will. Relax attention you know. Speaking to mate will relax attention going on a walkover locks attention. You know so so important to remember. It's how we go to this. Position denied like ways seems meno week. Five and fittings have. That name came from like i guess the older generation i might dot his dot different different breed. Think differently arctic united. Yes a lot of older generations Racism still lie on a massive direction. Which i think is coming especially with the generation. People that you courage Yes it's still baffles me that we ever got these possession the place they really does. Because it's normal. This feels like this. However hockey my funded admitting it is such a step in the wrong direction. It's the biggest mountain to climb in a way. I basically i kind of want to move the conversation on a little bit as to how we both go on in these past couple of months and i wanna basically. I want to try and sum up month by month right so when one i stop speaking to you that were i swear i appreciate it was at the end of the day. Yeah yeah and. I bought that time. I might have mentioned by your puppy. He's no he's no very big very junkie. He's really do boy. And i've been going for him and i think the ultimately you mentioned to you about how why i love walking landlord gonna lie. Going on nighttime walks through the sunset probably saved my life. Gonna be brutally honest with you here on honestly. It doesn't feel. I'm not ashamed. Because why would w shape he no. I'm here. I'm telling my story. Now there's you know it's not like a massive dealer under the. What kind of puppy did you get lumber door like. He's like a really. Dont golden loppy. Looks like it. Looks like a red folks. I see really with. Yeah yeah you hear him balk. I'm sorry by the east. He likes to likes to come to my door and just sit and cry. He's going through a really weird crying face he just cries ever. He's a he's a he's a wimp. Okay i'd i that on on big big george i wanna i wanna child so i i. It's been a weird couple of months. Ray because i go into my dream unique. I way after. I think that was in september because i started of course and then exam results came and i don't know where you know about what happened in scotland. Well actually i guess. Be the same as england as well. It was a total mess. And i go screw over by teachers Com remember on it was yeah. It was predicted grades. Well it was supposed to be more what the teachers felt wake minus. So i as far as i recall i go these and everything but then got bumped up the season. Be think as well. Maybe i don't know but you see. I don't even remember my exam results. How how we saw. I was speaking to someone the other day. Have you asked gone my exam results this year. I can tell you. I can tell you what. Pass them off failed. But i just can't tell you. It's just so strange long-term guy long long long time ago. Yes so i go into the and that was going okay. I was in a position where i was getting really headstrong and i turned eighteen in august on from then i had like a one month. Purple pot dry fell really good and i felt really switched on ready to go. And i'm i'm like my friends know me will know the. I'm not notorious for being the most driven guy in the world by got behead daughter and i what i did why had to do and not monther harvard long it was and then i kind of i think that the pinpoint of where i i can pinpoint where it went downhill and it was. I got involved with someone for a couple of months. I don't really want to talk about that. But and not period everything just got all us and ultimately afterwards you may not doing during. I don't wanna get. I don't against that because i know she might actually listen to this. I hope so. I hope she doesn't just i had. I'm not okay. I need to be careful with our service but i'm notoriously or at least around my close friends i can. I can act with my heart rather than my head. Sometimes i would. I'm not talking about hang anyone. I wouldn't dare do that. But it's more saying things i don't mean and i can get quite especially when someone that you love and care about or any of my friends are. They would have a go at me later. Actually genuinely said go with me. I don't think i'd be very good at taking that. Because a how i view is we're really could but you you. It's only if you do see. I'm having to be really careful with our ceos and i'm trying to be really careful with this because i don't want any of this to be taken out of context and i want to get our point across hero very carefully but long story short go very messy on our as of january and in that time like i feel i feel good like i don't feel like how big constraint around me all the time because ultimately i'm going to try and be as respectful as possible but it wasn't the most healthiest thing for my mental health from the world the across from september to january. It was a lot of it was a downhill. Spiral i think is probably looking back as fair to say that were. I'd have days where i'd wake up. And i just feel awful and i would just continue and continue and i mentioned to you earlier or the last episode when i get. There's a there's a point. I can go past the threshold where i start acting like someone that i'm not just just in general life aiko about ultimately my close friends will know that i have done that before and there's even being times recently where i've just i've acted like someone. I'm not in a way. I look back. I think to myself yeah. it's not good bye. No wild happened and like of kicked up a fossil large scale. So it's not like a lot of people know about that because i think that would relieve stress me out but for the ones that do know i assume that they understand because explained to them but look when i get really bad mentally i mean. I don't know you might have gone through this as well have you. I had five break up six years ago seven years ago. Maybe it messed me up for a couple of years until you honest of. Stay away from women's for quite a while for this. Very reason Thailand last year changed jobs. And then i met somebody. We've been talking ever since soon. I mean nothing's happened as yet. I'm terrified in one sense. Because i get on a field No i understand that. 'cause you as i said. I'm going to be respectful as possible. Here it was. I wasn't the mess. Wasn't the cleanest break open the world. It wasn't just like oh yeah w. life. It was a little bit more intense. Than i feel like i really i know i. I'm just trying very hard to not dentis. Because i don't want people having like a bad idea of me like that was a lot of the thing wasn't with me on the i'm just trying to. I'm just insinuate. Bob is if not listen. You know i'm just gonna sit here insinuate because ultimately vow absolutely ruined the bay at times like it was awful. I mean times before were. Obviously i think enough run. I think to myself well. I never open up to people about this. That i just meet on the street you know is not here. I'm having a mental disorder or personality. Whatever i have. I wouldn't necessarily call personnel because i know there's some people that do that and you know i'm not firing shots. Thing is the best thing in the world so the screaming from the rooftops. My name's this. And i have bipolar disorder. I have onerous here. I have yada yada and i have to let people know and ultimately i think my life now is especially with new people. I may need to know basis. If you need to know this. I'll tell you got together mental health stuff ultimately and need to know basis oven hundred house. I'm not. I'm not never the type to beat around the bush. I'm always the type to just sit down and tell you the just the only way town. That's just how it and lesbian most recently being really off pace and i'll put my phone down half people say oh andrea what new former you. Okay and i'll just tell him. Yeah i was feeling shit because of this reason and only two close friends though. You see noah. I talk about this more. I realize how complicated this stuff could beat it. Just you know tell people that are getting involved with or how does your friends or wherever because it depends on what you trust them really. Because i know some people really do you have issues with with trust on a hot hot dot on the past But now i feel okay now so there was one time i opened up someone about how it was feeling and then they used it back to me and like like an argument. I'm thinking of cuba. Why would you say that as no crew. You know you're on so someone that you don't lie. Just just insolvable something else thought. Maybe isn't the control you know. Yeah you don't go. Controls unwritten rule some. These mental health has to us as one of the worst things you can. Yes you do. you don't know how could spiral things. Yeah exactly stephanie. Light point for anybody Is not needed here. I think you can. You can kind of tell while i'm under. The weather has been times over quoted podcast episodes and you can hear in my voice. I'm not doing. I think when i when i wrote guys you can tell them the like come up with the energy but there's just some days where it's just it's just not there and you think well we'll have. This guest is only free on this day. I can't really say look. Excuse me. I can't really say look less through another day because they don't have anything i do. Bring something that is going to look like have just totally just totally ignored ever just made up an excuse but you jobs have got be done and then you do and there. I don't think i've had anybody message me and say after losing into podcast You are you people message. Me obviously wouldn't other stuff and whatnot but with this never really been altamira solidly. Wins really ever asked me any questions about how doing mentally. I'm not saying. I don't really want to be us. Thought hard questions i two. Yeah no it definitely is. Yeah but is it the case of our thinking it or do they just not. Maybe i'm just a little bit better covering how i feel than i am. You know from exactly actually been. Because i know i've done a lot of talking. I mean since we lost i. Change jobs Star that she has started a new job. john rings was already great toffler Mismile job because there are some issues that with one of the managers. He wasn't a very nice person. We had a falling out. So i just decided to obstacle even a god job. So i'm really happy. You won that appeal. You also mean my match towards the end of last year helped. Christmas was a struggle by always is renowned. Y tommy clouds. I i mean this weekend has been sunny weekend. Which is always voiced. puts me. Yeah it does luma something about a sunset just provide you with of serotonin might not get from a night walker wherever you know to enjoy tonysk. Police cars and sunshine of course. Yeah yeah Yeah i mean optimistic houses start. Yeah so it's been a hectic stock get. I'm in conan's year so yeah. I saw her instagram posts. Whereas you've gone from you basically yo you look and i'm thinking to myself. Bloody allows character. Development is beautiful. You like a new monarch control. Actually thanks thanks. She's she's laziness Knows yeah know about could grow. Did maybe i would collect from high It's one of those things. Keep going to join for the entire year to us too. Good idea who's gonna trim the moustache southern e- when of stuff all. Yeah yeah. I really thought about facial care i just before i thought i had all my said this to someone earlier as something about Drinking guinness on. It's like something ridiculous. Amount of pints are like okay. Yeah i'm going to get a thought before this food. Talk friday that we're gonna be mindful kid. That's fine i mean. How do you feel about all i started. I'm not. I'm not down actually get dog and i can remind me. Give me freedom that you don't have from your skirts office. Yeah i'm on new job. We have like a a teams meet. In upload eyesight islam. Come on mind could ask questions in the course it's a it's a lot more social than my previous job. So yeah i'm calling control to actually are you enjoying the Yeah yeah definitely is. If i need help than someone always zach night on pretty good at my job as people that are mesa everyday feels screwed. Aisin mostly. I've got without you by the way they wanna hear so. An actual resource study commissioned by guinness phone that estimated one hundred sixty two thousand seven hundred nineteen pints. Go to waste every year via mustaches and beards six leaders of guinness trump average beard and mustache with each sip. I takes about ten steps to finish a point. Estimated ninety two thousand three hundred and seventy two game as consumers every year in the official care assuming the consumer leverage one hundred nate pie two year the total of the total cost of wasted gas annually. About five hundred and thirty six thousand dollars is crazy. Guys absolutely mental. That's just yet. It was only it was only justice. I've seen just margin. How foster stoa. Perroni kuroda don't really want to talk about current events like pace anyways not really wasting time at all. Oh that's one thing i can. That's one thing var our talk about alcohol consumption. Because so i was never a big drinker. I never was until a pro elaborate. Never drink never like go with it and really drink as fast as county. How drunk i can get you know. I mean his. My parents are really. I wasn't obviously eighteen so kind of august on by that point i was in the pumps and that was that's a whole different story for time. In a way. I think drinking alcohol almost hughes pain for me and i say about that makes me sound like an. I'm not alchoholic. But when i have bad days and coincidently beer in the fridge i'll go and drink some beer and drink drinks volt co ever and it's nice because if you mormon again you don't worry about any intrusive thoughts and you had. How are you feeling this person's done this or your overthinking something. And ultimately i realized the i stay away from drinking. now you'll have the night for. The people had one hundred of some european football only. And i just thought you know i'll i'll just buy a bilo. Six hundred million peruvian daphne. Because that's my limit. That's all i can have in the. My parents are really big drinkers. Anyways case like you just go into the alcohol car that doesn't exist it takes some drink. you know. I think that. Because i have that element of self control in a way our home especially in the papua. Just drink and ya don't. I don't know whether you in the pump much in august by was always champions league drink. My birthday was the night. I didn't go to the pub that night by the night of bustling eight by me to was my eighteenth birthday state restaurant watching it. Some of the so but ultimately feel about Because the element of self control fired. But i know my limits. I get because i i mean. I've drank alcohol. Perfect your ten years. Shit listen good of you gave. I used to get ready messy when young the point where you know. I wouldn't remember things and the alcove doesn't tell me to announce Just one new year's eve is lot wrong. And i'm going to try and stop for year on the us never went back. Yeah yeah just took concept miss it. honda kandara too. Good note percents Lock which i've in the fridge. I have one or two allies. We can also substitute there right. So you just go for some physiologists found seattle. Exactly yeah to fair though to i. Don't rely on a i want to. I don't rely on alto but when it's there. It's like the pains healed. Yeah i mean one thing about alcohol. From from. When i used to drink you'd have a point on sire relaxed Get but ten more thinking when things got messy. So yeah yeah i do well apart from the pike. I actually don't drink a lot now on ultimately. I think that's because i know who drinking denies gonna get messier. Obviously it could get where i drink kinda weeknight heavily. And then i've got union which is in the morning on. I don't ever like a heat. The thought of letting myself allaying my family members done. Because i know if i start to fall behind ultimately i'm not letting my family but i feel like i'm letting my cell phone lie in a way i'm my own worst critic by a long stretch. I will waive him when i finish. I'll pick apart episode ii cat. Listen back to my episodes. Because i think god i could have done this this bad this i should said i should have said look and i just stay away from home because it just drives me absolutely crazy and i have obviously a limited budget on. I can't really go and say we're gonna spend a thousand pounds and this mike that's my you know. Get this this and this. That isn't possible for to of course are you sir you at university in scotland. Yeah yeah outs our alberto. I'll because i don't want people to know where i live because now yeah i this is a grew to on ultimately from what i'm doing is the best place i know i can be an unmoving. Ou- in oz supposed to have moved out already but the hudson the time i was supposed to be is the time the second lower care about well it was just kind of locked student hoses and no. I'm moving into a flat with three of my friends listing. So if you're listening So the plan is to move in just before my nineteenth birthday. And given that i've everything's gonna be okay for parties and stuff by that in which the cubs will be opened by mid june so some round without christner and then they'll be my one big drinking. I ben is work. Let's get exactly. And i know i have to look forward to. I'm just. I know. I really you know i think even now i'm starting now i'm going to be. I'm going to be brutally honest with you i. I am not the best memento place right now. But i know that in terms of my union work. I'm not like myself are keeping up on doing well and not a lot not room for. There's a big close pile in my room. However everyone's got to press coz power. And i know with that i've been meaning to clean my room for like four or five days and i have a hoover second behind me right now. That is being taken out my room twice and on it's just been it's honestly may i'll turn around. It's just just staring at me right now. I knew i think like i think can actually go and hoover after this because i mean you know a cleanroom saves a kind of makes you feel good for a day doesn't it. Yeah exactly exactly her move. Ation is just an absolute all-time loofah me. You know i mean even with this. I absolutely love podcasting and i'm sure you probably aware that i told you that before as well but i'm not going it doesn't feel like a chore last on the right thing but i don't think about it until i have to think about it. If that makes sense it's more a case of. I don the friday i'll even now and whereas i used to always think about elegant have you. I can have you do this this semester and while i do still do that. I'm not thinking about twenty four seven and maybe maybe have lost a bit of work. I think i had because of de motivation. Or how talking depressed the minute. But it's just it's scary. Do you know what i mean. Yeah yeah yeah close. Because there's just this big unknown and yes i can. I can laugh my way through a small way through an i won't necessarily come in here and cry me. I was not really my style here. But i think ultimately it's talking to your friends is one thing i know. Obviously getting a therapist is very difficult in the current social climber and everything but just find like friendly you can relate to. I know in the past. I've had the i in the early days. I could really relate to week real close because of the This happened happened more recently. With other friends that i've had i've got past the trust. You go from like a friend like a really good. A transition period where yellow closer someone and then you open up to them and they say oh under eyebrows. Then you think it was like what i said earlier. Last happened to me so many times during the first lock down who were. I'm really bad. You about over the west so bad so so but like as to the point where i will have a pollock rhyme freely prunes paddocks. And i'll have a panic. Talk if i smell burnt toast because i know that apparently when you have a stroke you smell burnt them. I will sit and al paddock. Oh god am. I gonna die by what was going on here. And it's just you know younger on the being an idiot burden costa alice just so ridiculous that i say out loud. But i mean it's true open really scattered iphone. Sometimes it helps us decide how you like actually thought the temporary pre-tax one as well. It's just it's so unbelievably. I think when when okay so when you in the morning and then you feel really shit really depressed. I know an peak lockdown. How i felt i was wake up. Fuel really really bad my problem my heart would always be on my mind and it was always a massive massive issue. I think about that from the minute. I woke up to the minute i went to bed and repeat for months and i think about a now like how did i get through though because it was so. It was so painfully agonizing. Disco isn't on saw pilot east coping. It's just kind of weirdly. Blew my mind. Because i would always like. I mentioned euro sock using earlier in the last episode. thought i've i've always thought symptoms of ocd. For as long as i can remember. And i've always been i've always had On issues you know. I would get very anxious when the school when i was younger. And i think also when i was no seven or eight. I was diagnosed with asthma by had like a low. Something lower my blood so actually caused me to be depressed. I sounds ridiculous. Me say not. But i i wouldn't call clinically depressed but i would call it depressed because of a lack of something in my blood i think i don't know showed off to ask my mom but i was really weird time for me because i used to set. You still ask your like mom. I feel like i'm gonna die. That is genuinely. I thought about. Oh my god. I'm gonna die not in fifteen years in sixty years now very moment. I'm going to drop on the scared. The life out for years. Yeah this weird. Because i've never said the alone before sounds ridiculous doesn't yes a nice. It might sound ridiculous. When you're saying out loud when consult your heads and your experience it feels very very real very. It's just it's just offer about you know. Even you know we were having me starts. You know we. Because of you're letting these horrendous thoughts into your head i i mean i think the majority of people who have been depressed or are depressed now you have interest of does. That's big and quite. Possibly i think one of the worst things happen to. Yeah i think twice in his company. Sixers intrusive folks. Gary authorize. just. Yeah exactly yeah. Yeah it's it's a craziest folks round who doesn't it. Yeah exactly you almost convince yourself is right. It was surreal until you actually think about it. I thought so many. We've always see days. I forget tracy forced Nothing about overnight again many slot mass. When i have a really bad day missed yeah. That's about that well. So i'm quite happy. I'm happy for granted. It's one of the things Comes guards places. Something about it breath. It's it is what from eight here will sometimes in life. That's just kind of the way it goes and ultimately this sounds really crazy but everything happens for a reason and well you know if you are depressed for years upon years you know there is always going to be a way of amino feel like you're right now even if you start to feel feel really awful now. There's always going to be a way out with that. It's so important to remember that the you're not alone. There's always things that you can do. Just admit you're that little bit better. There's always things to do to make you feel a bit better. As i mentioned just then is so important to to keep telling yourself up because the war against the mind is quite possibly the worst of them all great great. Do you want wanna replica. Asked for fifty minutes hash. Thank you very much for coming out again. I really appreciate you. Give me your time anytime yes. Do you have any kind of closing thoughts that you want to. You want to say before. We finish added kind of tips. Any words of wisdom from the muslim self. i guess is just trying to stay strong This whole this whole knock down you can see the end and just talk to somebody on but you just reach out get it done. Of course remember the. You are not alone exactly. You are never ever ever load. If you need anyone please. Just i mean it's very likely to get in touch with some random gaffey intimate pose seriously like you genuinely speed. See above us. Because you know i i. I won't help everyone. I knew it's not possible for everyone to message me show. I is impossible. That was going to take awhile for me to sit down and do but by just doing the snow so many people can consume this all at once and i just. I just want to help people. That's all i wanna do. Because i don't want people to feel like this. And i know i can feel a bit like you're in this big void where you know you're in you're in space. Just no cord on. You're just floating about in the void. You know it's weird analogy straight. It's exactly. I don't want anyone to feel about you. Know i just wanna throw you the cord. I'm bringing you back pretty about to life so on that note. I suppose everyone stay safe hearing through this. If you've made it this far. I thank you very much for listening. And the spill episode thirty eight of the episode podcast. Well three app sorts. Mental still can't believe anyways asi you also says.

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Recruiting in the Age of Googlization with Ira Wolfe #31

The HR L&D Podcast

32:40 min | 11 months ago

Recruiting in the Age of Googlization with Ira Wolfe #31

"On indeed you may get one hundred applications but maybe one or two fit what you need wall another one that go with only get three or four applications but if half of those are quality applications out of five you still get the same number of qualified application and it's a lot less work plug into cha- podcast with your. Hey snick day. Ceo and founder of jd. Recruitment specialist paychecks recruiters tuning into the hate. Your allergy foot will help you to discover strategic growth concepts leadership development strategies and the values and behaviors that dr organizational change and success together. That's empower our workforces. Diversify thinking and achieve significant kate. Giles success welcome back to the hr and in the cost my nick day ceo of jj hr recruitment. And today i'm joined our wolf who is ranked by thinkers three sixty the number one global thought leader and influence in the future. What category he's number three and hr on the top twenty for leadership. So i cannot wait to welcome into the he's been described as a millennial trapped in a baby boomer body and he's the world's first chief google's ation officer. We're gonna find out more about what that means late on the cost. Now that has been dancing with changes. Entire professional life profoundly shaped by both his fascination and fear of a viewpoint future. We're going to find out more about that. Lot at the start of this podcast. He's president of poised for the future company founder of success before solutions and he's a popular presented s. h. m. and business conferences world wide. He's the author of six books including his latest recruiting engage of lies ation which was recognized as one of the best. Hr on recruitment books of all time by book pharmacy. He's also found the google's asian nation community host of the podcast geeks keys google's ation and a frequent contributor to hr and business blogs including coolest on bonds rework and medium. I cannot wait to welcome to the show. Sit back relax. Relax and enjoy oil. The how you feel great to have you on the show. I'm doing very very well. It's a great for me to and Appreciate the been here. I'd like to start with an acronym which you refer you reference quite a lot which is bucar. That's where you see. Can you tell us a little bit more about what this means and more importantly why it matters for sure Voca represents i and just to give credit where credit's due it. I did not come up with that. It actually came from the us military. It was their strategy recognizing that after the berlin wall came down. They recognize that world. You know protection safety. Security was going to become more volatile uncertain complex and ambiguous in its out. How do they defend us. Because we wouldn't be fighting sovereign countries boundaries anymore as we did in world war one world war drew and before that but we would be you know in cyberspace. We'd be fighting terrorism that there were no defined countries that and so it took a different strategy so they came up with vuko. Vca of volatile uncertain complex and a big use and that was about nine hundred ninety thirty years later and i can't think of a better acronym that describes twenty twenty than volatile uncertain complex an ambiguous shabtai. Everybody's living that. Every day we're living in a world of yuka pre pandemic as well as this much. A post pandemic acronym using now with volatility uncertainty. We're seeing in the workforce or on a match. This love to hear your side. Do you think we are in this kind of complex situation prior to what we recently experienced. Oh absolutely we just didn't know it. I guess we did it. No there was quite a few of us that knew it. We're anticipated at the what buca did was accelerated so prior to this and in my book recruiting in the jubilation which by the way the first half of that book has nothing to do with recruitment it had to do with the world. We live in and happened to do with voca. So what we're talking about its technological disruption. We were talking about the adaptation. How fast things were changing. This was predicted as far back as nineteen seventy with alvin toffler and future shock when he wrote future shock and he talked about that we as individuals would be stressed out and disillusioned by the pace the rapid pace of technology. We anticipated. This was going to be coming things. Like artificial intelligence machine. Learning thomas vehicle sensors three d printing. Those things were happening in the background. Certainly in the hr space which is a slow industry to adapt people thought it was going to. You know we wouldn't have voca. Nobody really described new stearns. But we wouldn't have voca for know twenty thirty or twenty forty. The reality is the pandemic accelerated all that Just about a year ago actually might have been a year ago today. I gave a presentation to a regional conference and and the the program was workforce twenty thirty and in that. I said that whatever you expect to happen by twenty fifty would happen by twenty thirty. Whatever you happened by. Twenty thirty would probably happen in twenty twenty-five so things were just moving much faster than anybody anticipated. The reality is it hit and twenty twenty everything that we wrote about everything that the future is sort of an and i learned from the futurist. I mean i i. I'm in the hr space so in other you. You gotta take the blinders. Often you gotta learn from other people but there's no way to keep up with everything but the reality is that ben democ just literally accelerated. It was it was putting oil on fire. Show show and i think we've seen that. I think we see that. Such rapid speed of adoption of technologies. That as you say they were there. Before the pandemic we had access to zoom we had access to ms teams which are the most obvious technologies. That comes to mind when you think of the pandemic but now the adoption of that's been been insane. You mentioned zoom just think about zone in december zoom had ten million daily users in april. They had three hundred million. And i don't know what the current statistics are. But the reality is is you think about that interests and where it used to be a A business meeting alternative and there was a lot of resistance to use it. You know before people'd still went on that face to face. People wanted to go to conferences. People wanted to travel and then all of a sudden they couldn't and the rapid pickup but then it also became a consumer tool which is really where they were a huge movement. I mean it's beyond the business community now when they're having a weddings and confirmations and funerals and bar mitzvahs and graduations and you name it you have an event you can do it on zoom. She'll show what question. I'd like to ask a question. We're hearing all the time at the moment and funny enough. I had my walls from the podcast episodes ago talking about the future and the algorithms gauge. And we're we're living in a world data post pandemic quite there yet when we do finally get to this point how do we as as a world as a workforce get back to normal. Do we ever get back to normal. It's an interesting question and the the simple answer is no. We're never getting back to normal. We're going to create a new normal. I don't like that term either. There's a friend of mine has his another name. Which i like better which i can't recall at the moment but somebody just emailed me last night a good colleague of mine and said hey. Do you wanna do a podcast about normal two point. Oh so whatever it is there's gonna be some new normal which is they're always been that after every disruption whether was war or famine or a pandemic you know we're we're always progressing and then we always adopt and sometimes it took decades to do that but you know. I think we're going to do that a lot faster. But the other part of the question is what has to happen and the struggle that humans have and especially in in human resources which is more of a conservative traditional process-oriented industry is that we need to become an again. be as a buzzword. We need to become more agile. An order to become more agile. You need to become more adaptable and we adapt but we adapt over a long period of time. So that's your question is we're not going back to normal. I actually wrote in a bit. Ury at two normal i'm linked in anybody's interested Connected with me on linked. And i'll i'll send it to your just do a search actually on my profile I have a pin there. So i wrote it in a normal and it talked about that. You know we're we're all grieving. Were all grieving. Everybody's grieving even for people. Like me. And i also you who do like change your anticipate change and get excited about it. But normal died. He left behind his wife Certainty and his daughter consistency. And you know we're all grieving for him and we want him to come back and we're all morning but he's not. I mean life changed in the house is empty and he'll be missed but normals gone The normal that we know was gone but we will establish a new normal going forward but the challenges. We need to adapt in order to do that. And what we're used to doing. Is you know it took like forty years for people to adapt to electricity until it became mainstream now with the speed of change and again we gave the example of zoom. Things can happen literally overnight. We we literally went hundred worldwide. We put hundreds of millions of people out of work or out of out of the office but not out of work. Think about that. Think about how this compares to the pandemic of two thousand eighteen and nineteen eighteen. So there there's a lot going on. Some people have adapted incredibly well and other people are sitting back waiting for the return to normal and they will be left behind you. I'll be waiting for a long time. So that's think about it. Then we'll hr manager's hr directors listening to this podcast going. That's great so we may never get back to northern new before. But where are they going to be one year from. Now what will the. We have a better word for it at the minute. Normal two point nine while the new normal. What will that look like one year from. Now it's going to be evolving at that point. Hopefully there will be a vaccine while there's going to be a couple things and and the uk and us are struggling a little bit on adapting to this with the vaccine there'll be a little bit of normalcy Hopefully people will use masks and social distancing little bit. Normal that my podcast. Yesterday we talked with an individual of contact tracing and you know how other countries around the world and businesses and industries We're doing that. It's not an invasion of privacy. But it was as is our path to get back to normal includes doing what we needed to protect ourselves and then also at the same time is realizing that there are some risks is what if there is an exposure. How do we contain that. How do we mitigate it so. I think a year from now the still going to be a huge divide is going to be the people who wanted still struggling to go back to the way it used to be. We've always had that you look at the economy. The us stock market. I mean it's it's an all time i There are parts of the economy that are booming and excelling and by everybody's account and i'm not an economist. So i have to rely on other smart people continue to grow but we're going to grow in a different way which means that there are some businesses that will never reopen. They're going to go away some of it because they just because that other opportunity doesn't exist sometimes because they were just poorly run. They didn't have a cash flow. They didn't have systems in place. They were there basically home style businesses. You know living paycheck to paycheck. There's a lot of those businesses that just won't be around but there's going to be a whole lot of new business that are popping up which robert he's saying. We're going to see a lot of jobs. Bet just don't exist anymore and yet other jobs are going to pop up. Actually sitting here just opened the page this morning waiting waiting for the podcast here and and this was from linked in. It's the fastest growing jobs in the covid. Nineteen error jobs that we would have never heard of before about contact or mentioned that earlier about a care resource coordinator about a crisis counselor health and safety. Manager's wife coaches But then there's other more traditional ones like loan specialists For good and batteries in because some people are prospering and they can invest in other people. Because they don't they need the money But medical products sales healthcare. Remote healthcare is skyrocketing Shippers virtual assistance warehouse workers. So there's a whole set of jobs that are exploding and yet the hot yes. The hospitality industry the entertainment industry suffering and transportation. But there'll be new jobs that evolved from that as they have you know twenty twenty one follow twenty twenty one. You know if we have an opportunity to talk again we'll still be talking about a little bit of the same things but the again there's going to be you know i think the economy's gonna advance and there will be people back to work the Things are going to improve a little bit but there's people that are going to suffer for a long time. She'll of interesting. I read a future works reports recently. That said there's going to be probably seventy five million jobs worldwide displaced but she ultimately with new technologies. We're actually going to create a one hundred. Twenty five million. New jobs is a net gain of about fifty million over. I thought was really interesting. And it kind of ties into what you were saying there as well. Yeah i just want to confirm that. I mean absolutely but but you asked me earlier. Were talking about normal. That was all anticipated. We saw those numbers that you just recited. They anticipated that by twenty twenty. Five or twenty thirty. That's what was going to happen. I've written a couple books. But the first book i wrote almost twenty years ago was called the perfect labor storm and in that book similar numbers we predicted of how many jobs would be lost. Many jobs would be created so it was predictable it just was accelerated by the pandemic. She'll show and it's worth mentioning that you are. You are considered by many as one of the number one of the most respected speakers and thought leaders and influencers on in the future of work and talking about the future work so you know the hr professionals listening to this in needs to be aware that actually you ranked very highly. I think number three and eight and top twenty leadership as well and you've been described as the world's first chief google's ation officer now for some listening to this they won't know what that means you have of course just written a book called recruiting in the age lies ation as well which is recognized as one of the best. Hr and recruitment books of all time by policies. I will just concentrate on that a little bit going forward because not everyone will be familiar with what that really means. So what is google's ation. And i'd like to take it over for the last. That's a little bit more about new employability hauling mistakes and things of that. Let's start with google association. What does that mean. i appreciate that. And i don't know what it could see me here. But i'm smiling as you're asking that question. Google was actually Recruiting the age of globalization was initially going to be my follow up book to prior book which was called geeks geezers google association and in that i talked about the convergence of the wire the tired and technology so obviously the geeks the geezers where the wired and tired but the in the background and this was as early as two thousand seven two thousand eight when i a right. That was that there was change coming and the iphone was just introduced. They were talking about the millennials. All they did was stay on the phone social media just come into play. Facebook was in its infancy twitter. I'm not even sure if it was around then so there there were all these things that were happening around that time and Google's ation really just ended up being my term for the convergence Where people business and technology meet and it was disruptive and people talked about the single entities of people they said. Oh what do we do about people. Here's how we're gonna have to run our businesses but they treated Technology is out wire. It's like oh it's a tool we can use if we want to. And that's obviously not true. We have to use technology or technology will use us. You know in return. So google was asian. Just turned out to be the convergence of people technology and business and it stuck stuck with me. And i continue to use it. Because that's the world we live in. yeah. I'd have to say that those felt familiar with the book and i will put a link in the episode so people are interested in getting a highly recommend. If you can talent are you should go and get access this book. It's a really really good a quite brilliant practical blueprint really if you work in business and you want to track to quad retain more talent which is let's be honest. What business doesn't want to do that. Then i really really highly recommended access. Leprechaun's i will lincolnian upset notes to do that but wondered if i can utilize you while i have you on. This on this podcast. I can just tell us a little bit more about about what. Your blueprint is listener. But how how you think job. Searching is gonna change in this in this age of google's ation what did we have a couple of hours here. I came up with another acronym minute that seems to be the thing to do. And you mentioned this earlier and a critical part of this as data. I mean it's got to be driven by and hr recruitment in the past hasn't Not used data. I mean we knew how many applications we have we know how quickly might we might have filled positions but there were certainly a lot lacking in a lot of it was just throw stuff against the wall and hope it stuck but with technology we collect tons of data so what the acronym is is reach. Its are ach. I couldn't come up with another name for our so. It turns out to be reached and last year. I think i did. Twenty seven and twenty eight conferences spoke to thousands and thousands of people and each one. I would say the. Why are you here and most of it. We were having trouble. Finding people. people who apply are qualified. It takes us all this time. We're you know we have skilled positions that are open too long you know. What can we do so we start. Say well first of all who can tell me how many applications you have almost. Everybody raises their hand. I said how many people know how many started an application and didn't finish and sometimes three quarters of the hands went down the so one of the reasons you're not getting applications isn't because people aren't interested in applying for your job but you're process is completely out of whack. Now that could mean that they have to apply. Pdf that means that they may have one hundred or two hundred fields that they have to fill out and candidates are frustrated because they apply to twenty or twenty five different places. Top top candidates. I'm talking about they. May submit resumes legitimately time thought the application than they never hear from a company which is all different story they go to the hr black so the one of the first thing is people really don't know why they're not getting qualified. Applicants is it because their application process is not modernized. Is it because going back to reach. Is it because they didn't reach the right people or reach enough people and hr rarely has that data. Because they'll say well we use indeed and we can get that number from adid but what about all your other sources. What about all your social media where our marketing department might have. How many people start on your career website or come to your website your company website and can't find your career at website or they go to the career website. And it's so tough to navigate or it doesn't display properly on a mobile device which is where most people start so we started with rich so one is. How do you reach the people. The second part is how do you engage them. So the and the engagement isn't entertaining. But you know somebody lands on your site. Modern candidate now looks at the company they said. Is this a company. That i would like to work for even before they look at the job. And so a lot of old a lot of websites especially those using ats or strictly a listing of job titles. I have an image in my presentations that literally the page has and i won't give the name to people would recognize this. Obviously it's a larger company but they seven and fifty three jobs listed so my my inter that company is. Hey i heard. They're looking for someone. And now i have to do this database search to find the job and then the jobs are listed by all the locations and then there's customer service specialists ones customer service specialists two three four five. I mean it's crazy of what's done so we look at reach. We look at what's the engagement like and this is where all metrics are this digital marketing. This has nothing to do with. Well does have everything to do with. Hr and recruitment is. Recruitment is marketing but this was missing so the reach engage. And then the a happens to be apply. What's the application look. Like how many people start how many people finish. And then the sea is a conversation immediately after suna someone is applied. There's needs to be some type of of conversation it's a. It's a second stage of an engagement that you need to reply quickly whether it's by chat whether it's a phone call whether it's a screen whether it's something more than a cold and corporate thank you. Thank you for applying for your job. A we'll get back to you and weeks but we get a lot of applications so you may never hear from us again. You know. I mean that's essentially what most message say and it doesn't take much to say. Hey thanks for applying. We really appreciate the opportunity we know it took some investment at time we will get back to you one way or the other within three to five days and that you have to do it and company said well. We don't have the time to do that. It can automate that. That's where technology comes. And then the age see was converse covered conversation communication and then the h. is higher and the job offer a lot of recruitment lot of hiring stops at the job offer. It's like oh my job's done now. It's hr's role or it's the hiring managers and rowdy is recruitment runs right through on boarding. You should be the project manager that you should facilitate that. Make sure things are done properly and even look at the on boarding process is that also modernized. There's no reason somebody has to get emailed the twenty-five documents fill out and scan them back in that can all be done online with signatures. And you know that's so much better so reaches other reach acronym is how to reach engage. Apply converse and higher. Have you ever asked yourself how can any recruit understand my hate. Hr recruitment challenges. Please don't give up on your hiring challenges just yet terret. Jj hae-chong recruitment. We appreciate the difficulties associated with attracting thing recruiting and retaining top human resources talent. We also understand. Just how costly a pool higher can be. Jj hr recruitment with light to partner with you to help you overcome your hiring challenges contact because today on a one seven two seven eight hundred. Three seven seven over the jj. Recruitment dot com to find out more about a couple of questions as recruiter myself. I've got to go different view to this. As many the hr professionals will have might be listening to this. Because i'm gonna external makutu right. But to highlight. One is the reach a love your point on that because i do think recruitment become a little bit lazy recent me. There's a lot of recruiters out there. Relying on just one source of candidates. It might be just indeed be just limited and of course if you on just one source then you you get a homogeneous type of response but also you're limiting yourself to some great talented individuals. They're going to be existing on other platforms. I love the fact. You've emphasized that i think it's a real weakness in the recruitment that might businesses and recruiters are becoming fall to rely on one source because the other thing is is. Obviously there's there's tons of sources whether it's social media. There's a lot of different job boards but the other part of it is is is people. Don't use the metrics. The only metric they know is do we get enough applications from that source but they really don't track the quality of the higher so on on indeed you may get one hundred applications but maybe one or two fit what you need while another one that go will only get three or four applications but if half of those are quality applications out of five you still get the same number of qualified application and. It's a lot less work to do that slater. We've achieved just taking the second point. I was gonna make which is exactly because on the same page because you can't go to the other way. If you use lincoln as an example with their easy apply function where people now can see job. Advert one click. They've applied what's happening. Now is the other way round candidates longer. Checking out the job description and just seeing an advert. It's a one click process. They click in some people paying sometimes a lot of money for pay per click responses that opening an advert within twenty four hours about three hundred and fifty applications. But as you say the relevancy of what are those skills match. The profiles are looking for can be very very low. And what they've ended up with is are time consuming process responding to three hundred and fifty people of which ninety nine percent of potentially going to be unsuitable. So i think there's a balanced to be happier absolutely right. It's tracking which i don't think we do enough of necessarily in the process to make sure we know what we're getting our quality of highs for you. I believe that time acquisition does need to change. I think if we don't biz is going to be unable to attract leaving locate top talent. It's got a long time to hire lower quality. Of course vising cost. But you're the expert here at love snow little bit more bobby. Slept at times do so. What your view is and how tat acquisition in particular needs to change because particularly in the uk. Now we've seen a huge increase in talented teams like an intermediary between the horrid manager. I am the candidate coming into play. What would you recommend in terms of the evolution of the talent has remain covent and effective. How do you think tank strategy in acquisition needs to evolve. Yeah that's a great question. So one is i think taking a look at how the modern candidate applies and so we almost have two different systems. We've use technology to accelerate and optimize a process. That's no longer use it just out of whack. Because in the past what would happen is a business would say we have a job opening. They posted a job used to be in the newspaper. Then it became a job order now becomes on your ats and it gets distributed that way and then you sit back and wait for applications but the modern candidate doesn't do that top tier talent there. This first decision is hey. I think i'm gonna look for a job. The second decision is what company do. I wanna work for. Or what industry do i want to work for. And then they'll do the research and they'll go out about and look for that. And that's where that employment branding and messaging and pre conversation where i had the see that conversation after they apply you should be having conversations before they apply and this is a problem with all the technology. All the technology that's out there was built pre twenty ten or actually pre twenty thousand nine hundred seventy. It's still that same process. We post a job. We get iraq and we wait with sitting back but the good talent. That's not how they process so there needs to be a lot of pre conversations You know social media gets misused but a lot of networking connecting messaging you know. People are are having conversations long before they have a job opening the nurture that but that's you know. That's the marketing. I think we're going to be really really interesting and this will. This is a whole other conversation. Someday is blockchain is where what happens when my personal information doesn't get released unless i wanted to know. How is that going to affect that. And that's going to require recruiters talent. Acquisition have one on one relationships with people. Say you know. Nick i trust you. I'm going to. I'm going to release my information to you. Be as i knew you take care of it. The same as i will where we're a resume just as out there for the world to see. Well you know with privacy and security and concerns about that. Blockchain is going to change absolutely however everything works now. We're bats probably ten fifteen twenty years down the road but we're going to start seeing little bits and pieces of that so for now i would suggest having a lot of conversations and follow you know even like with amazon. How do they sell. They personalize everything they remember. When you came back you know who you are. They know what your likes and dislikes. Are you're gonna going to do a lot of research and and again data is is going to be critical. Everything you've said is is certainly music to is. It's great to hear it from such an experienced pro talking about the subject. Because i wholeheartedly agree. I think i'm just the mention of a resume or cv is almost hats. I think it doesn't really sell. Well someone can do sales the ability to create something. But you know we've already moving now. Thanks to to lockdown We've actually evolved recruitment little but more into video in another other ways of assessing talent. Which i think is hopefully going to benefit the industry as a hold as well. But i know we could talk for hours on this subject. Obviously not pleasure having you join me on the podcast day. And all of us have a link to your book recruiting Relation listed have any wants to go and access that but also let's put what size you can find out more information about our said. Please go to our wolf dot com. That's i r. A. w. f. e. dot com or success performance solutions dot com. Wait can find out more information about the services that provides obviously put those things in the episode as well my last question if i may just quick. Show fire for yourself. If you what the future of employability lit like what would you say transferable skills identify again critical thinking you know these. Those are the skills in order to be employable. This is real interesting yesterday. I just saw this. Survey linked in fifty eight percent of people on linked in say they don't know if their skills that they have now could get him another job and they don't know what those skills are. So employability is about transferable skills critical thinking. Collaboration adaptability agility resilience. Those could be used cross. Industry crush jobs That's that's again how people are going to get hired. And that's what employers are going to start looking to. If they're smart fantastic. Totally agree couldn't agree more iowa. Thank you so much for joining me. Today it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for joining me listening on the eight hundred podcast. I look forward to being the next edition real scenes cave yourselves and each other. Thank you thanks very much. Take care thank you. So much for tuning into hatred. Led podcast with your hosts. Nick day of jt a recruitment specialist. Hr recruited if you need any help with the current. Hate shaw allen debate consi then. Please get in touch with and his team. All contact details can be found the episode in the meantime to make sure you never miss a check episode. Please subscribe to the show through any of your favorite podcast channels till next time.

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Reinventing the Way You Work with Jonas Altman

The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

35:46 min | 10 months ago

Reinventing the Way You Work with Jonas Altman

"Onto the remarkable leadership podcast. We are here each week. To help you lead more confidently and make a bigger difference both professionally and personally. This episode is sponsored by kevin's free weekly e newsletter. Unleashing your remarkable potential which is full of articles and resources to help you become a more confident and successful leader. Sign up by going to remarkable. Podcasts dot com forward slash newsletter and. Now here's your host kevin. Good afternoon everybody. The future work is a topic. Does your these days but our guest today has been thinking about it longer than most of us the most longer than we were living in a post pandemic tinged world. We'll talk big picture. We'll get personal to our guest. Today is going to rock are thinking. And before i introduce him let me just say. Welcome to the remarkable leadership podcast live. And so if you're with us live please ask your questions in. We'll answer them. If we feel. We want to know seriously if you questions. We'll answer them. And if you're not live you could live future episodes because there's about two months between we're having this live and when those of you. That are on the podcasts. Are hearing it in the normal sort of way so if you want to join us for future episodes you can do that by joining us in our facebook or lincoln groups. Simple way to find those good remarkable podcasts dot com slash facebook or remarkable podcast dot com slash lincoln to do that and get a headstart on thinking about the future. Let me introduce you to our guests today. His name is jonas altman. he is the author of shapers reinvent. The way is reinvent. The way you Work and change the future. He is a speaker writer entrepreneur automation to make the world of work more human as the founder of the award. Winning design practice social fabric. He creates learning experiences to elevate and grow leaders. At the world's boldest or will come back to that before we're done but first of all join us. Welcome glad to have you. Thank you so much for being having me here and it said get into this gap. Yeah so am i Really really great so first thing. You've got an interesting sort of journey that leads you to here and you even told me a little bit about why you wrote the book but before we went live but just tell us a little bit about the path that got to hear this thing called social fabric but just like how did you end up on the podcast with me right over. Twenty four hundred. yeah absolutely. I was just walking down the street and you grabbing here. There's this thing in my head it actually it as you as you hit live is i knew i wanted to be something when i grew up and i'm glad i wasn't specific. I think i'd be better off for it. And i know that i suffer from a delusion. Say that because i'm able to to now make sense of what is a jungle. Gym philosophy marketing design education music industry fashion industry slanging beer working in a law firm Working at a university working in a think tank. An all of those experiences. I never found that i fit. I always found that. I was a subordinating parts of myself to fit in to conform. And there's parts of me that didn't have utility ed so easy twelve. I pivoted in have my third career which is in very much. In your vein. I don't regret anybody. And i get to do what i want. And i get to use my idiosyncrasies as my currency so that shows up mostly as teaching as coaching and writing is just a passion that at some point became a practice which then became a book. Okay so while were there. I mean you know everyone who's paying attention probably knows he's wanting to talk about a book a little bit and we're going to of course along the way but it's an interesting title. By the way. When i just typed in shapers into amazon before in the book category like is a whole nother world. But i'll recommend does that later if they so choose. I mean it's not like it's you know. Rename walks game. It's not about right spoke there. You go so my question. How did you sort of come up with the title. And what's the what's the big idea of the book title. Then get to the big idea. there was a lot of resistance so i had like things like alvin toffler third wave and you know words like change in an literally like on the ten in the name for so long but i never really felt that i had landed on it and then when i wrote the book proposal i had to customer segments or to readers. Shapers and shifter's shapers are ones who have a lot of autonomy and a high degree of eighty entrepreneurs or leaders in an organization that have freedom our startup and can are shaping the future of work like basically the buckles validate what they're already doing and shifter's you are in a transition are irritated or frustrated and the publisher said shapers is the name and i said hell no and they said yes it is and then i said hell no and then finally an editor said it is and you better deal with it. The idea is that if you sign a contract and at the end of the day right with the core idea and it's really important to stress this in a world. Where potentially they'll be three hundred million unemployed when every every four on unemployment insurance in america if you're in a position to entertain finding or discovering meaning and getting joy from your work it's a duty to do so what happens is due in effect change and has a ripple effect your colleagues your family your friends at your engagement in captivity your ability to recycle your commute shift And i wrote that prior to covid. And i still think it's true We can see you know. Even though some things are using photoshop we can see clean air. We can see deers crossing the street in london. And so forth. So that's the Thesis and once you start to entertain that. I believe that what happens. Is you get energized. By what you do. I can tell you. Are you get to express yourself day. And don't have to stuff your emotions and you start to feel and potentially do something greater than yourself so as you say all that you sort of get at my next question a bit. You may be in part started to answer my next question a little and and so you say that work isn't working for most people and you you kinda got net that but i'd like you to dive into that more deeply because it's You know for for everyone who's watching now. listening later. there were at least two hats. You're wearing the leader hat. Most likely and they're also if they're leading they're also a team member right whether that's on if it's like me where it's your organization you're the team you lead. But for most people there they're on two teams the one they lead and the one that of their peers. So when we ask that question about why is work not working. It's worth thinking about from both of those perspectives right. So so i want all of you to be listening to the answer and join us. You can certainly talk to it in both ways if you want. But why is it. That work from your perspective isn't really working Fundamentally at the root is is something that buries shorts who teaches at berkeley has been sort of championing for years. Adam smith created a story that we would work for carrots and be motivated. Strictly by pay and that we're lazy and that myth became true and the industrial model and the way organizations are structured typically are a machine age mentality of units productivity efficiency reputation and in the late fifties in the madman era advertising and certainly into the seventies with microchip and certainly now tiktok and instagram. It's the cats are the bag. It's like world's done so. The system needs an upgrade. But in order for the system to be upgraded the people who are within it and operate within it in our living breathing need a new frame. A new reference. A new attitude. And that's where the twenty th century leader could enter in who's no longer ruling as people are lazy and incompetent but people are adults and if you give them agency they will do their best work. And then we'll see higher engagement higher. Collaboration better productivity. And then i think to your point around teams. is you know. There's a lot of people who are great individual contributors and not necessarily great leaders. And there is some gallup research and other research that shows that very few leaders have what it takes to be effective and so the a rationale or the reason could be. Let's get rid of the leaders and moved to self management and have no more bosses or less hierarchy or acknowledged that leadership can be more dynamic and that the power doesn't have to be so concentrated and we can have emergent leaders and move away from positional authority and have it much more distributed. Where teen lead could be like. I know data a big data. Let me lead on this project. Even though the boss is the boss and the ego is left at the door. So i think you're right. There's like rotating and we ineffective team of teams. Everyone is playing multiple teams like a basketball nba thing. And you're gonna europe to play in the all stars and then you're coming back and they're getting traded and the permanence of a team is is sort of a leaving and the acknowledgement that. It's much more. Fluid in adaptive has become the new norm. So if i'm a leader and any level in in an organization. I'm listening to you and i'm getting excited. I say he's got the picture on that he's saying it in a way that i haven't been able to say it but i'm with him. What's the path like. how how do we. How do we institute or move in that direction as quick question. I think the first thing that helps that happens with your kid and you're looking at what sports to play is modeling the behavior so some people say will you know managing up so it's hard to model. The behavior is the behavior. That i'm getting that. I'm receiving or the signals are fear based eagle based ruling with an iron fist thumb One of those expressions thumb. Yeah so i think if you have models of people who have you know the ceo of google. There's a great company called Next jump hair in a china. The refrigerator company samco recurred ricardo similar. They all have necessarily well known but they all our leaders have really understood that their biggest asset is our people and my question or a question. I can ask myself every day is how can i help you. Do your best work. How can i enable you to trade on your creativity your cognitive abilities at your ability to do great work and you know even though it sounds very simple when you start approaching it that way. It's no longer. Mr know it all or mrs no at all. And you're now becoming a mrs or mr learn at all and you see these companies that are deliberately developmental. That are really concerned with personal. Professional development with mental health with diversity inclusion as good business strategy and actually well being in tandem with financial performance which is again shareholder value in quarterly reports. So there's a tension there. And so i think one is to acknowledge his A fundamentally a difficult system to operate in but one way to start is by exhibiting the behavior or at least showing the behavior if you're being managed that is the one that you'd want your children the next generation to replicate you. Ask a question. You encouraged us to ask. The question of our team members How what can i do today to help you do your best work and earlier. I want to look back to something. You said earlier about trading on your radio synchronize because i think those things are connected so you can you hook together so i got a team of people. And they're india syncretic being's right different. They're all amazingly talented and have great potential in their kind of weird at times right. I know that they say that about me. And even if they were here right now they would say yup he is. So how how. How do we as leaders trade on people's idiosyncrasies love that race. yeah. I'm gonna tell you a little story of working university and always getting asked to go for drinks. I would never be in london every friday or every thursday. We're going for the puff. When bob i never went then i got either. I've got a guilt trip. Or i felt guilty and then i showed up at just as though is ringing or maybe a half an hour so i had one drink the story. I was telling myself is. I don't want them to see me drunk. Or i don't want them to see a side of me. That is not professional. I was concerned that it would lose. Respect that they would not listen to me that i would be ineffective because now they know that i like break dancing and it wasn't because you didn't want to go now. Raw thought culturally inappropriate. I don't know my inputs from society where people like me in this position. Don't go to the public. Get drunk with people that you manage. And now i think about it now. That's kinda sad. And then i fast forward to like a zoo meeting that. Probably been on or youth even held and someone's got their cat and the kit opens the door and you see in the background. Your paint you your photograph your wife and now we're humanizing work in real time and i don't even have to ask you these questions. I see where you live you Trees in the back into like. Oh we're already on like i'm in canada they go. I'd love to go there so now it's happening but we we had to wait for the ball to drop and so i guess one thing to say there's over sharing is being too emotional. Giving too much information. Keep that to yourself which is sort of common sense. And there's like really being protective. Like i was and not wanting to let people into the world that is jonas or kevin. And that's kinda sad because in many ways we staff parts of ourselves that that don't need to be at so your uniqueness or your idiosyncrasies can sometimes especially in advertising and technology in the creative industries be a currency like. I don't know how to use tiktok. But i'll figure it out. Then you do have little video and goes viral. If you had said well you don't really do tiktok. We have someone for that right shrek. Yeah you know the the interesting thing as you as you say that is that you know a lot of people that have written books and i write they use words like being transparent and being genuine and peel so i. I don't want to see everything in what you're saying. You're going to see everything but you've got to be willing you'll like there's a there's a lie there's a spy there's you don't need to bear our soul about every last thing but there's there's far more there's far more to be gained for us and for others if we're willing to you know maybe go to the pub using that as a metaphor rather than right and then you know being being discerning with with exactly that you know intuitively. You know that withholding something is going to create psychological safety in inhibit great work or by dumping it onto someone is basically saying deal with this crap and have a good day and so in many ways that would be stifling innovation right so one of the things that is woven throughout your book and it won't be surprising anyone you did not read it if we're talking about being more human at work and making work work differently The idea of finding meaning in our work is A huge piece of the book. And i'd love for us a diamond that little bit in terms of what. What does that mean to you. I know that you you. And i both know that it's possible. Some people might need to hear. That is actually possible. But what does that really. What does that mean to you. What is meaning mean to me. That's a great question It's a hot topic. Meaning subjective. you read anything about it. Any literature got difference between happiness. Fulfillment purpose satisfaction meaning is subjective. It's kevin reflecting onto your past all of your experiences. Assuming you don't have dementia or alzheimer's god forbid and projecting yourself into a future that you have yet to live and we're here right now october so meaning sort transcend time like almost like tarantino movie where it says all whereas happiness is fleeting. I use the example of july auto ice cream in a sunny day. And you know you're happy but then it's gone the sun and ice cream. I didn't have meaning work because i was either searching for the wrong in the wrong place. I wasn't even aware that it was something that you were allowed to get started. Hustled gary vander truck. Go business as a badge of honor. Productivity is your ninja cooking on instagram Writing article at the same time with my feet and instagram. The cooking i over here. So i let i let go of that story and i realized in a part of my think as part of my epa genetics and family history of i love working with people. I love helping people. I love connecting with people. I get energized by conversations. Like this. If i could get paid to learn if someone would give me money to continually feed my brain dead pages. Write the book that also have we got other books to talk about. I'd be the luckiest man on earth and so meaning which often came from the church or the synagogue or the mosque or from a spiritual practice is now being extracted or search for in what we call work. Whatever work is. That's where we're at. So i'm aware of like kind of the irony however if i look at the people around me who are having many existential meltdowns or openings invitations. It is now that people are saying is. Is this how. I want to spend the next ten twenty thirty years and if i am going to retire to what what so at as we think about meaning in that way that collective of the past and and translating that to the future what your thought about how people will how maybe we will societally or how individuals will look look back on this pandemic and how will how will it have impacted people's Perspective do you think the last time ago asked this question. I said i don't know but that's a cop out. I don't know like i really don't know. And if someone is an unfair question because different for everybody. But i'm hoping that you can kind of play the idea because i think it's something worth us thinking about. I really do. There's only one person that. I always think that actually could answer that question. And he lives in goober in its sci fi writer william gibson who coined the term cyberspace. His new book is about a pandemic just by chance. So a assuming you can't. I would say what would be really beautiful is for work to lose. Its connotation as toil as drudgery drudgery as somewhere you have to go a thing you must do a job that you possess we lose all of that and we look at home schooling and we look at emotional labour and we look at teachers and volunteers and community engagement. And all these other forms of work that have really gone under valley and then in that way you know the the idea even the idea of universal basic income or some form of a safety net becomes de stigmatized and we sort of district quality. Were because right. Now it's really concentrated with a few in in terms of global population the global working population. And so if more and more people could find an opportunity to feel free in work or feel joy in work or be be nourished by their work which is sort of the premise of of doing what you love. You're seeing it in places like kenya in scandinavia in canada. Where trialed giving you know. No questions asked a thousand dollars or you know the fifty bucks a month and people go and they set barbershops they go and they buy motorcycles star giving taxi list they lend money and they become micro-financing kind of thing so i guess the roundabout way of saying is that it's an opportunity for a complete reset and a reinvention of what work meanings and therefore an ability to find your place in it so that there's even a glimmer of meaning or hopefully much more opportunity to feel fulfilled. So you talk about so. I think that's that's great. I appreciate you sort of expanding plans on expanding on starting with. I don't know and then giving me seven minutes now. I'm just teasing. But so in the book you talk about something is not your original phrase but you talk about it in the book and i think connects. I thought we'd go here because of what you just said You you write a good bit about the idea of fluid work. I think that you would say that. That's part of what the future of work might look like talk about that idea. I know it's not yours originally. But i think you've added a lot to the thought of what it is in the books so talk about fluid work. We should cut probably credit both the practice of yoga and harvard. Professor amy edmonson wrote a book called teaming in anyone who's thinking about teams and organizing in a way that's like water instead of stone. So much more adaptive much more. Resilient much more about information can go where it needs to go to be accessed so that people can make smart in faster decisions so it just makes good sense to have fluid teams that can form and disband quickly. It makes sense to yourself working away of like after this podcast is probably not gonna be a great idea to go into another one immediately. You might be a nice idea for a walk for have deal with your wife. And i think so if you have the fortune or the ability to design your day at an individual level why not make it so much fluid with whatever it is you need to be your best as a parent as a son as a colleague as a leader At the team level fluid teams could operate like hollywood. You know set up an llc a run the script and then have a wrap party in the permanence of a team doesn't need to be above the sense of belonging and camaraderie. It's the job is done. That's form another team or let's be on multiple teams at the same time. And then if you do that. At organizational level it does look like a bunch of many grownups or an ecosystem of enterprises. That no longer is like this. You know general electric crazy higher coal thing. We're trying to work in a static way map with the organization books like it. Looks like an organism. Yeah and there's a lot of and when we you know. I think that say things about that. You were saying general electric. And i'm not picking on general electric. I don't think you are either necessarily but there were monolith came to my head. I think that we certainly We have probably both seen small organizations. That pretty much looked like that. They're just not as many boxes. And we've we've seen bigger organizations that look way less like that and way more fluid so if you're sitting here or walking as you're listening to this podcast and saying well okay. Well we can't be fluid because we're big or whatever that's sort of silliness right and even if you're inside of that large organization you have a lot that you can do as an individual leader in terms of how you work with your team. How you viewer how you help your team seat view work spot on it you know. Another company has bega comes to mind would be proctor and gamble. God knows how many products and things they have in the market and that is in our indian development but when they open up with. Png connects to say the smartest people in the world. Probably don't work here. I'm sure some people in the world do work there. You then also look at fluidity as it. You don't have to have people on payroll in order to benefit from Netflix's prize further algorithm. You can't pay them dangle the but it's not the money right. It's the problem. That's the juice the people that solve it are just excited about that challenge and often they're the people who are so far from the field of vision that they bring this beginner's mindset to say like what are you guys talking about. Here's how you build a rocket ship and it's like a school teacher right so i do. I do love set. And i think the challenges is at the big sort of cruise ship style organizations that they tried to change little bit but that incremental change or just figuring out. One intervention has escaped cascading effect. It's not like we need to all of a sudden be a bunch of micro-enterprises it's okay. We're moving in that direction. I just have struck as you're saying that i'm looking across to bookcase over here. In the far reaches. I can't see the book but i know it's there To a person who was. Who's been on this podcast. Tom peters who wrote a book in one thousand nine hundred five the talked about some of these very things orient right and we all knew and yet we're still trying to figure it out and i think we can be okay with when we realize that we've we've lived in a machine age and industrial revolution terms of roy of running businesses as they continue to grow in size as the world continued to change. That's gonna take us a while to figure this out very little that you're hearing from jonasson either. You haven't heard before you may be hearing it in a new way. It may be enlightening and eliminate any of you the new way and that's super important. The point is we've got to keep moving ourselves in that direction. I mean you've got to give head nod to margaret mead. Tom peters charles. Handy peter drucker. There's alvin toffler. They all have been on about this for seventy years. You know like yeah. It's insane and if we look at kobe and no one could predict it it. You could say the future of work arrived overnight and now it's up to us to find the meaning and the the The the the system. That's going to set us free and no longer be on an antiquated. Outdated machine h. Just use the phrase just a second ago that i hope people heard like what do people find the juice. I think that'd be how i would. How might the phrase that. I might use to define this whole conversation. We've had about finding the juice right. I love that So a couple of things before we go. When you're not you just said that you love to learn and you learn you know if he would pay to do that. That's what you do but what do you do for fun. don't get paid to surf. Then that'd be very happy. I like i like being water. So when i wasn't writing shapers i was with. My friend protagonists surfing to replenish a. I love reading. I love. i've always enjoyed running. Although i've had a love hate relationship with sometimes because i don't like running for that long. Yeah twelve minutes. How long has done the long long runs. And my body's not made that way. So i'd say like the summer between the thirty minutes to an hour. Is the butter zone. Gotcha and now the thing is. I really do like meeting new people. Like i know that sounds cliche but when i meet someone new. It's a new world view. I just go. Wow like you know. First of all like our ninety nine point nine percent same but then also there's one chromosome and you got those. Is you got blue eyes. I've got hazel. And but also your whole experience is like everyone has something to share. So when i meet someone new and i'm like what your story is so i do spend quite a lot of time meeting new people either just by chance or by deliberately just nourishing excellent so you mentioned reading in the only question. You knew i was going to ask you this this next one. So what are you reading. And i know like you're prepared. You have usual aids so this one was interesting as i move from writing to marketing so highly recommend very easy meat ryan holidays Fantastic writer This one is the second book. And there's a lot of inspiration for shape from shapers from your for realists this is called humankind and its fundamental thesis is. We got it wrong. Humankind is good not evil and and this one is a man by the way by the way this one. You can't put down. A brother came over water a little bit. But that's great because it gives it some legs. It's a local hero from coober and it's a fiction book and it's one hundred percent on politically correct worst person ever can't can recommend it enough. Especially if you work in the film and or casting world you will love it worst person which you are not served by the hour. You wanted me to ask all from the beginning. Okay whether we learn more about you where we get the book. Tell people i hold it up again. Join us open book shapers. How can people learn more about you and all right instagram generation you go to at shapers dot life if you like the website go to ww shapers dot life and like Jam with me or have a conversation with me you can go to jonas Dot com jonas opened comment. I can tell you this everybody. I don't know what it really is. But i know that about the time the podcast comes out in a couple of months. He's going to be releasing or getting ready to release a brand new Chance to deeper and learn more with him. So if you're hearing this on the podcast we'll do our best to get that link into all of the show notes but just check out him follow him talk to him and he'll tell you all about that at that point. It's just a little early to that in october. But it won't be in december so he'll do that join us. Thanks so much for being here was a so so much a pleasure to have you now. I have a question for everybody else. Nowhere questions for jonas. Just one for you. What are you gonna do now. What what are you going to take from this. What action are you gonna take if all you do is from. Well he's kind of fun. It was kind of interesting kind of different but they seem to enjoy each other's company learned a little bit. But so what. What are you gonna do would extra take as a result of being here. That's what really matters. That's what will make a difference in quite honestly that's why we both did. This is so that you would be able to take some idea from this and apply to your work to the work of your team to your life's work and so we both appreciate you being here. I'm speaking for both of us. Like i know Let me close by just telling all of you. We do this every week. And you really ought to be back and if you want join us live so you can get into some of this earlier. You really should be joining us on either facebook group or the lincoln group because you can watch us live. So we'll podcast dot com slash linked in remarkable podcasts dot com slash facebook jones. Thanks for being here. Be there thanksgiving playwright. Hey we'll be back again next week with another episode of the record leadership podcast. We'll see all then.

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Episode 21-33 Pioneer Codebreaker -- Elizebeth Smith Friedman

TechNation Radio Podcast

59:00 min | 2 months ago

Episode 21-33 Pioneer Codebreaker -- Elizebeth Smith Friedman

"Coming up on technician journalist jason for goni talks about elizabeth smith friedman a pioneer in code breaking come world war one to rum runners to drug smuggling to even the famous enigma machines. His book is the woman who smashed codes a true story of love. spies and the unlikely heroine. Who outwitted america's enemies. Then on technician health doctor marco tag illegality the president and ceo of sign. Nexus he tells us about their work in serious invasive. Fungal infections all this coming up on this week's nation. Let's take five with more gun this. It's five minutes a twenty. Thirteen technician interview plo bronson talked about his book. Top dog the science of winning and losing. He cites numerous scientific studies and in many. The scientists asked people to choose sponges. I asked him what's up with that. Scholars researchers are really interested in measuring the telltale biomarkers of competition and performance. And this technology gotten sophisticated enough. Now that you can get a little saliva and you can spit into a little tube or into a cup but the easiest way to do it today is use a salomet new this like a piece of chewing gum for thirty seconds and you spit it out in. The scholars will measure all sorts of biomarkers off. Just this little saliva test. It can be as simple as something. That's looking for like alpha. Emily's broad marker for sympathetic nervous system fight or flight response activity. We can get really specific with it. You know down to Minute changes in testosterone levels to The whole neuro anderson cascade that Works through your body at the very beginning. The book There was a scholar out of germany. Who did this and the wine country. And she convinced a whole bunch of people to go skydiving for the very first time and they jumped out of a plane at ten thousand feet solo chewing salvat to see exactly what was going on in their body. Exact scaring them to death was exactly the point following. And and yeah. And the and the marker said these people are freaked out right but was interesting is she. Made them do Three times sometimes three times over a couple of days or even on the same day or even in a single our and what you found. Is that you acclimate to freefalling towards earth at one hundred twenty miles an hour quickly that even your second jump distress over goes down by third and on your third jump. It's like driving in traffic. That you acclimate to this very well. But meanwhile there was this other scholar just a little north and he was studying ballroom dancing competitions and he was having amateur ballroom dancers. Who were there for the regional dance competition chew little salad vets and no matter how much experience that had whether they'd had one year experience five years or ten years or fifteen years no matter what their stress response was just as high annabel's pretty much close to but not quite a first parachute jump which is interesting. So why people acclimate to jumping out of an airplane at ten thousand feet going one hundred twenty miles an hour towards earth but can't acclimate to the unique stress of competing. Because it wasn't the dancing that was causing the stress. It was the being judged it was the sense of winning and losing the sense of having to avoid making a single mistake and that is very interesting. Because we've heard for quite a while now that it takes ten years of practice to become expert to become an authority and something to be great at it and we felt something was missing from that success former. That's not wrong just that there's an additive thing which is that. We're not judged on how we practice. We're judging how we actually perform. When the band is playing the lights are bright and the music is going and what it turns out. Is that while we all have this enormous stress flood when we have to compete. We interpret differently bodies. Our bodies physiologically interpreted differently but our minds interpreted differently than if you ask expert performers professional athletes are professional musicians and the like they all get really anxious and stressed out before a big performance. But they see that as beneficial to them. It excites them a weakens them. It gets them ready while a novice performers feel that same sensation but think it's damaging their performance and learning to go from seeing stresses harmful to seeing stress beneficial is crucial to sort of really learning to manifest competitive fire. When you have to you might know po bronson from his other books including the first twenty million is always the hardest nurture shock. And what should i do with my life. I was able to speak with plo about topdog. The science of winning and losing on technician in two thousand thirteen. I'm more regard. This is five minutes. Five minutes is produced at the studios of katie weedy. Fm in san francisco. Five minutes is a production of tech nation media. I'm paul lamport from san francisco. I'm moir gun. And this is tech nation today on technician journalist. Jason goni joins us to talk about the woman who smashed codes a true story of love. Spies in the unlikely heroine. Who outwitted america's enemies. Then on technician. Health dr mirko tagliavini from sign nexus he talks about serious invasive fungal infections and their approach to treatment technician has underwritten in part by mind k. A global software development force in a world where every business can be global on the web at mine k. dot com. Jason forgo knee starts his story in the year nineteen sixteen. The place is tiny huntington indiana on the banks of the wabash. The person is a young twenty-three-year-old schoolteacher a'daughter of quakers has kind of a classic american store in a lot of ways of bright young woman. Elizabeth smith from a large quaker family in the mid west. She was the last of nine kind of a sickly kid She's very smart. She loved poetry growing up and she ended up going to a liberal arts college studying literature. She studied poetry poems of tennyson. The plays of shakespeare she graduate and she got the job that was kind of available for a lot of women to to get in that era. was just kind of the end of the line for bright young woman which was school teacher and she taught high school in a small town in indiana very much like the small town where she grew up but the thing was with. Elizabeth says she was ambitious and she was brave and she was bored with being a schoolteacher. And so what. what a combination. So one day. In june nineteen sixteen. She she up and quit her job as the teacher interest to the big city to chicago to look for something. More unusual is what she said and she ended up having a completely chance meeting in chicago with an eccentric gilded. Age tycoon that absolutely transformed her life but not only her life ended up. Transforming the shape of the twentieth century. Now that was george as it. Fabian fabian fabian. And he had this state riverbank which is just just outside chicago. Or maybe it's part of chicago now for all i know instill there. He was eccentric. I mean he funded all. He's a tycoon as they say in those days and he he had a hobby of science and he had a hobby of this and a hobby of that. What did he want her to do when she came to survey jordan. Fabian was similar to other gilded. Age tycoons in that he had more money than god and he could kind of create his own kingdom around himself with his own rules and that he was he was like william randolph hearst. He was like andrew carnegie. But what was different about george. Fabian is that whereas those guys would spend their money on sort of impressionist art work or building castles. Feeding was really interested in science. He was interested in discovering the secrets of nature that had not yet been discovered and although he was a high school dropout he was very intelligent and yet all of this money at his disposal to essentially build a scientific laboratory on his private mansion which which he called riverbank laboratories this is three hundred fifty acres outside of chicago and so riverbank became under his direction. Kind of like half of a rich man's fantasy land and half scientific laboratories similar to thomas edison's menlo park louds or nikola tesla's private laboratory. It was a place where you know in any given weekend. Teddy roosevelt might be there. Strolling the grounds talking with fabian. About agriculture famous actresses of the day would be. they're lily lanktree and billie burke rich people sort of enjoying their leisure time but there would also be some of the greatest scientists in the country. They're working on discovering the secrets of nature. And that's why george fabian. Elizabeth smith on the spot. It's because one of his obsessions was in trying to discover what he thought. Were secret messages hidden in the works of shakespeare and he knew that Elizabeth was bright and that she had studied shakespeare and that was enough for him and so he hired her on the spot and she went to work in this kind of very strange world looking for secret messages encrypted in shakespeare exactly. Yes so the idea. Was that shakespeare's plays contained a number of messages that were written in cipher by somebody. Who was not william shakespeare theory. Was that the place had actually been written by one of shakespeare's contemporaries. Gyn into sir francis bacon and jordan. Fabian believed in a lot of people at that time believed Mark twain believed this and other famous authors. Believe this that bacon had had really written these plays in that he had smuggled proof of his authorship inside the plays themselves in the very original printings of shakespeare's plays in the seventeenth century and fading believed that these secret messages could be discovered that they could be Unearthed and it could be revealed to the world through the art of Of code breaking which is nothing less than discovering a secret messages without knowing the key and so this was the project that elizabeth began with. This was the very start of her Of her career in code breaking was trying to find a essentially the messages placed by a ghost in the works of shakespeare. Hey it's a job You probably just say you had a job when you wrote home to. Your parents didn't say. Look what i'm trying to do better than teaching high school teaching high school and shortly there when she came there she She met her husband to be william. Friedman who is a geneticist negative cultural geneticist. Just another sort of classic american element to the story to people from completely different worlds on one hand. You have elizabeth smith twenty three years old from a large quaker family in the mid west. She meets a young man. Twenty four years. Old from a jewish family. In pittsburgh william friedman He had studied genetics and he was one of these scientists who had been brought to riverbank by this crazy tycoon. Because he knew something about science. William was breeding fruit flies in a in a little laboratory inside of a windmill at riverbank and Fabian had brought him there to try to create new kinds of strains of corn that might have some agricultural use but but ultimately William also had another skill. He was really good with photography and the shakespeare project Involved taking close up images of very old books and enlarging them to try to find these secret messages. That were planted there. So william got roped into this kind of shakespeare project to and meanwhile elizabeth smith was working on this project and they started working on it together and they were they were thrown in together At a very early time this riverbank adventure that elizabeth was having and and he just kind of instantly clicked. You know they had a bond They love talking to each other and they love to sit across the table from each other looking for these secret messages in that bond only strengthen the more time that they spent with each other and within a year they were married. I like how you refer to them as a duo wasn't just like you were a couple of we're going to Together we're cutting this and yeah that's very much how it was for them is that is that You know individually. They were both brilliant but together they were more than some of their parts. They felt that if they were working together they could be four times as good or even more is there was just something about Their brains that kind of connected and clicked. And i think this happens a lot of the time when people are falling in love right. This is an element of falling in love with another human beings. You discover that you share the same brainwaves that that you are maybe finishing each other's sentences and and with elizabeth and william there was this additional element of of of learning how to uncover secret messages at the same time they were falling in love and and ultimately that became an element of their love letters to each other They started to write each other letters that were in code and they would include these little sign off at the end of the letters that are remarkable to look out one hundred years later. They still packs such a such a punch Did you decode them. Yes they're not some of the some of the hardest. some of the hardest ones too. I mean sometimes early and their professional careers. I mean codebreakers for life. Right they were. They were in their twenties They were at the very beginning of of kind of this adventure but both of them turned out to be Incredibly important people in the development of Not just the science of of code breaking but the growth of the american intelligence community itself. Today william friedman is considered to be the godfather of the national security agency. If you go to. Nsa headquarters in fort meade Outside of the auditorium that is named for him. There's a giant bronze bust of his head. Until i wrote this book elizabeth's contributions weren't quite as well known for a number of reasons that we can talk about. But she was there every step of the way and in fact the scientific papers that william is often credited with writing alone. I went back into the archives of the riverbank. Cypher division which are kept it the new york public library when you look at the original draft. Cc elizabeth's handwriting. All over them. So i think a lot of these early papers were Were their joint work. william considered papers to be quote hours and on his on his personal copies of the papers even though her name was not included in the printed versions he wrote her name in On the on the author page as as co author. So i think they very much considered themselves duo a team from a very early time. It's not unlike alvin and heidi toffler. Who first time. I interviewed them I knew that this particular book that had both of their names as authors. And i was standing out in the street because we had a very short time so they had to pull up to get him out. Get him in here to the interview. Put them. They came up. You can see them in the back. They're talking talking. They talked from the time they got in the car. Out of the car up here. I turned record on. We turn record off. I took him back. Put him in the car they talked. They must have talked from the moment they met. They consider themselves a team about battle. I said you know gee we have a lot of alvin toffler books. Famous ones future shock the third way and he left in and i said i said suddenly now. There's suddenly heidi an album. Is you know. New wife jumps on the bandwagon. We laughed about that and he has we. Nick discussed everything. We fed off each other. And i. he's about in those days. I couldn't put her name on the book and we understood that and he goes look and he whips out one business card has them both. It's not unlike. I mean it's it's reality when people are that close together. I that's how it was with elizabeth for in those early years that she felt like william was probably going to be the breadwinner of the family and so that made more sense for his name on the papers because it would accrued his reputation would help them sort of make their make their way in the world but but they they saw it as very much very much joint work in fact you know william early letters to her he is constantly praising her mind. You know he. He said that he thought she had him. Skin to a frazzle In the brains department in that she was better at ciphers than him in and all their lives people who saw them close saw them work together and knew the importance of the work had had difficulty determining which which the friedman was the superior. You're listening the technician. I'm moir a gun in my guest. Today is journalist jason fa- goni recognized by the columbia journalism review. You've seen his work in the media including the new york times. The atlantic esquire philadelphia magazine. He's here today. With the woman who smashed codes a true story of love spies and the unlikely heroine who outwitted america's enemies. Well we need to get from from ada z. Here what happened. In the meantime and george fabian. At riverbank you know while he assembled all these people basically assembled a whole group of codebreakers as it turned out even if they didn't start there and think about the time. Nineteen sixty nine hundred seventeen. Nineteen nine hundred eighteen. We're talking about the outbreak of world war one or if they didn't call it world war one the great war And there wasn't an nsa or a cia or an fbi etc so for the first eight months of the war all the us code. Breaking work was contract it out to riverbank. Yes it's amazing to think now and it's one of the things that surprised me about this story because i think that we tend to think about our intelligence agencies. Nsa fbi cia as as being all as always having been this powerful right and the snidey but in nineteen sixteen. When it was with arrived at riverbank there was no. Nsa was no cia and fbi was very young and so in nineteen seventeen when america entered. World war one. There's really no intelligence community to speak of and what that. There was no way for america to read the secret messages that were being sent by the enemy by germany and this was a problem because he really needs to do that. When you're going to war and so the. Us government out of simple desperation and not having any other option. Turn to riverbank george fabian. And his team of codebreakers. They turned to elizabeth into william and so very quickly within a year. Elizabeth shifted her work from this kind of very eccentric literally project. Goodbye shakespeare and she became a military code. Breaker all of a sudden And she was very good at it from from the start. That's the things that even though elizabeth was a poet Literature scholar not trained mathematician. She was a genius at seeing patterns. Fundamentally this is what code breaking is it's about seeing patterns in what looks like noise and this is why great codebreakers have often come from unusual places in unexpected areas. Elizabeth was exactly that she. She very quickly became a nastier and within the space of about a year she went from not knowing anything about breaking at all not even solving crossword puzzles to being one of the most accomplished and talented codebreakers and all of america. Well there wasn't an internet at that time. So how did they work on that. This is another amazing thing about the story is that this is before the internet of course and before the digital computer you know computers so this was entirely game of pencil paper in your mind. You would sit at a table with a stack of puzzles Looking at blocks of gobbledygook blocks of garbled letters you'd have to Work out with your pencil. Ways to chop those blocks into their constituent parts sift through all of the letters world around count them and measure them in certain ways and then rearrange them into their original order. That was the game of code breaking and What real rank was doing in the early days of world war one. They were receiving telegrams and Packages through the mail from washington. Washington would send all of the messages that they needed solved out to the illinois prairie and then elizabeth and william and the other codebreakers there would would solve the messages and send them back. They send him in the mail if they weren't too origins and send them by a telegraph if they were more urgent. And for the first eight months as you said it was the entire code. Breaking burden of the american government was being handled by this. This small team of codebreakers on on the illinois prairie led by elizabeth. And william who are these two young people in their twenty s. i mean. It's kind of amazing to think about. And this is really where the national security agency began but wasn't called that then but it clearly traces its roots right back there. In the first one was the cable and telegraph section. Giving you an idea of of the of the technical capability there And it's a fascinating story there but we there's so much in this book and we we just gotta move through history and and and this duo and especially elizabeth here After world war one. of course there's more need for code. Breaking there's prohibition was that exactly so elizabeth and william ended up moving to washington d. c. in one thousand nine hundred twenty in january nineteen twenty one. They both got jobs with the army Their job at that point was to create new codes for the for boys because the codes were already dated from world. War one Very quickly elizabeth grew bored with this work. It wasn't quite as exciting as as what she'd been doing. It remember bank so she She quit she. She went home Her first child was born soon after barbara daughter and she started to write children's books which had long been one of her ambitions and at that point elizabeth kind of thought that her life would would be writing children's books and staying at home and raising kids. She had no particular desire to work for the government or even to have a life and code breaking at all. But what happened is men from the government kept showing up on her doorstep. This is this is actually her. Wording which i love i mean. This is how she put it. She said men from the government keeps showing up on my doorstep and the only way to make them go away is to solve the puzzles that they're asking me to solve and then maybe they'll go away but then they always keep coming back. She was cursed by her ability. Backdoor know. I mean she was she was. She was cursed by her ability. And some sense because she's just so good at what she did that That she became indispensable and all through her life. This pattern Reoccurred that men from the government would show up on her doorstep with new challenge in a new problem in new puzzle. And elizabeth would Would go to work solving. So what happened Soon after she she moved to washington is that the the puzzle that needed to be solved was Rum running prohibition prohibition had created a vast criminal underworld from nothing because nobody could legally drink in the anatomy could legally drink and that void had to be filled so it was filled by By rum runners by bootleggers very quickly. Kind of the era of the gentleman. Bootlegger that we all think of. You know sort of a guy with a boat you know enjoying the freedom of the waves making a little money on the side clack gable that that ended by about nineteen twenty four. That was over because what happened is is that criminal criminal gangs and organized. Crime kicked those guys out of the market and so By nine hundred thousand. Four hundred. Twenty five when men from the government are showing up on elizabeth doorstep. The the problem is completely beyond their control. The the rum running. Networks are run by Organized crime people who have a lot of money syndicates with a lot of money to spend on equipment and part of the equipment that they're installing on their on their run. Boats is shortwave radio and so these syndicates were able to organize their illegal rum. Shipments by sending encrypted messages from shortwave radios on the boats to pirate radio stations that were built on shore and this way they will able to elude the coastguard and hide all of the details of their criminal activities from From the coast guard knowing and this is the coast coastguard went to elizabeth and nine hundred twenty five. They said we have no way of of understanding what these runners saying to other. We're completely in the dark. Where overmach we need a code breaker. We need somebody to come in to look at these intercepted radio messages full of gobbledygook solve the puzzles. And tell us what these rum owners are saying to each other so that we can go and catch them and and this is what it was with began to do in nineteen twenty five with with great skill and patience is that she started to use her code breaking abilities to light up this this darkened world to to map out systematically the networks of the rum runners the names of the captains the boats that they were using to transport the liquor the pirate radio stations on shore the links. Between all of these things she would solve these intercepted radio messages. She would give the answers to law enforcement. And then at the end of the day she would sometimes even go into court and testify against against these gangsters in open court. She would sit on the witness stand and explain to a jury exactly how she head sort of stolen. The thoughts of these runners were on trial and it was very dramatic stuff. Newspapers would cover these trials because it was this little petite five foot three woman in a pink dress and a pink hat with a flower pinned to the brim. Walk into the front of courtroom and staring down. Some of the leading gangsters including guys. Who worked for al capone and battling the the defense lawyer of of of al capone himself in one of these famous trials in new orleans in nineteen thirty three and and she did it without fear even though it sometimes you know her life was under threat because as as you said one time After she helped catch a rum runner named dan hogan he was in a very mean mood and so the feds would have to station plainclothes agents in the in the courtroom. You know with concealed weapons ready to stand up and protect our if one of the defendants or allies tried to tried to harm her killer journalist. Jason phony is the author of the woman who smashed codes a true story of love. Spies and the unlikely heroine who out witted americans enemies. We'll talk more after a break. Podcasts of tech nation biotech nation and tech nation. Health are available at itunes. Stitcher and other podcasts indication. Outlets coming up in the second half of our show. Dr martha tagliatelle the president and ceo of sign nexus. We'll talk about fungal infections. Stay with us You were listening to tech nation. I've been speaking with journalists jason. Goni we're talking about the pioneering career of code breaker elizabeth smith friedman and his book. The woman who smashed codes a true story of love spies and the unlikely heroine. Who outwitted. america's enemies. Now did i get this number right. During this period she was decoding twenty thousand messages a year. That's correct must've really been lousy and encoding messages. They were like well sorted out before computers. This is this is among other things. Just incredible sort of managerial tasks right figure. There's two hundred business days in the year. Just round numbers right and so that meant She decoded one hundred messages a day. If that's all she did and and By hand and so all of these Not all of the not. All the messages turned out to be useful. Some of them were not communicating useful information. But keep it all in her head but you had you had you had to solve all of them to know which ones were useful in which ones weren't and so. The ones that were useful had to be filed they had to be transmitted. And and elizabeth was with was until nineteen thirty-one elizabeth was doing these thousands of messages a year. Tens of thousands With just one assistant there was. There was one clerk typist who was in her unit and elizabeth and so essentially these two women Inside the coast guard from nineteen twenty five to nine hundred thirty one. We're handling all of the you know code breaking traffic for the us treasury departments in this in this giant rumoi. It's it's it's really impressive. To think about you. Know at at the at the point where elizabeth would produce a stack of solve puzzles. That were an inch thick. They would bind the solutions into a book. That was the rule when the stack of paper got an inch high. They would make a book it by nine hundred thirty one. She had thirty. If these books each an inch thick and so it was essentially an encyclopedia of the the conversations of criminal underworld that that she compiled essentially alone. And after prohibition is repealed what is our next criminal activity drugs drugs breaking up drug gangs because a lot of the syndicates simply moved to drugs after prohibition was repealed so a from nineteen thirty three Until the end of the decade elizabeth breitbart heroin rings Including international heroin rings that had agents. In hong kong shanghai and confederates in san francisco and other parts of the united states and this duo had a number of children. She was a mother. Yes the whole time she. She was raising two kids. Barbara and john and sometimes she would You know on on friday she would depart for a trial She would solve hundreds of messages over the weekend. She would testify in the trial on monday and then she would come back the following week and weekend. She would take her kids out for tea and they would do crossword puzzles together. And when your kids went to camp she sent them coded messages. That's right so yeah no. Of course. I mean you have to learn the family. The family business the family game right and this is. This is an important thing about elizabeth. And william in the friedman's is that they really did at a fundamental level like puzzles and like solving puzzles. They were interested in words all their lives and the possibilities of words and to them it was game it was other things too but fundamentally it was a game and they played this game with their kids to so so when their daughter barbara went off to camp summer camp one year. They told her a very simple substitution cipher. Which probably everybody listening to this. Well we'll have done at some point in their life is you saw cryptogram on on on the comics page. Essentially that's a substitution cipher. You're trying to find the most frequent letters your for you. Start off usually by trying to find the letter e right. This is the most frequent letter in english. And then maybe you try to find a t if you get. The then then you're well on your way to solving the problem Wh- what the friedman's taught barbara was substitution cipher. Where you know ache welsby and beak will see and sequels and so you know everybody. Everybody listening to this. You know when you're in school and you have a you have a crush somebody in your class. You write a little secret note to them and you pass it across across the room. He say equals will see you. Write it in your cypher. do you like me. Yes or no and this is i for that. They taught to to bars. Right and then Barbara would send her letters in cipher from From summer camp and and she in the parents would would correspond this and this is this is something that they they did with their kids all their lives. Then we roll into world war two and of course the famous in 'nigma machines the encoders for nazi regime. Sure many people have seen the benedict cumberbatch. Movie the imitation game where he plays alan turing. And they figure out how to decode messages from enigma. How does that dovetail in with what elizabeth dead so the british got a head start on america. When it came to these enigma machines. They they built a secret facility in the countryside. outside london called bletchley park and Soon there were thousands of people working there you know in most of them were winning by the way. They're called wrens and they organize these large scale attacks on enigma coats. 'nigma was essentially It was a cipher. Machine was like a typewriter that the germans used to replace one letter with another in a very complicated way That that couldn't be broken by guessing alone and You know there were hundreds of 'nigma codes and the keys changed every day so the keys had to be solved fresh every day which is why that many people were involved. What elizabeth did is she worked on breaking a subset of an egg. Machines enigmas that were used by the spis and there weren't as many of these machines and the keys weren't changed as often so it was possible to break into them with pencil and paper techniques with a kind of energetic guessing and she applied her intuition and her experience to do that and one of the impressive things is that she was doing this starting in forty before. There was any kind of cooperation between the americans and the british so she was doing this independently of the british essentially on her own. And i found all of these records in the national archives. You found a number of records in a number of places i mean. How is it possible that you had enough to put all get enough material to write this book. That's a great question. So elizabeth left twenty two boxes of her personal papers to a private library in virginia. The george marshall foundation at the end of her life and this is kind of what she wanted the future to see. And that's where. I began three years ago when when i started working on. This project is is. I went to the marshall foundation. And i asked to see box one of elizabeth's collection of the twenty boxes and i'll never forget that day. You you get these days sometimes if you're lucky if you're a journalist where you find a an archive or or voice and you just get pulled in and you're completely captivated and you don't want to do anything else except to follow the story To its logical end and that's exactly what it was like because these these boxes contained incredible riches They hold elizabeth's Letters from every almost every phase of her life her early. Love letters with william. Her college diary is their original code. Worksheets from from different periods of her career and Pretty quickly realized that the boxes contained you know an untold story of a legitimate american pioneer. Somebody who is genuinely important and had done a lot of pathbreaking things that that really deserve to be told but there was also a gap in the boxes That cried out for more investigation because there was nothing there from nineteen thirty nine to nineteen forty-five there are things things in the boxes. Before that era before world and there were things after world war two there was nothing about world war two itself and so i started to get curious and i asked around. What was elizabeth doing during the war right. I wanted to know. Nobody seemed to know and Somebody told me that The files might be in the national archives. And you'll never find them because The national archives essentially like the last scene in indiana jones raiders lost ark. Finding we finally find arc and he put it in wooden crate and they will it into the government warehouse with ten thousand identical. Wooden crates could be in the. The national archives is not digitized. Could be in there. You can spend years looking for. You'll never find it. But eventually i did find the arc as far as elizabeth's war services concerned. I found At the national archives in college park maryland. I found a three hundred twenty nine page. Technical diary that describes The work of her coast guard unit during world war two and i also found four thousand of the raw decrease the translated german messages that her unit solve during world war two and putting those together it was possible to to piece together the this long hidden story of what elizabeth did in world war two and it turned out to be more surprising And dramatic than i ever and let's not forget. It's never talked about it much during her life she will. She never talked about it because what she was doing was solving secret messages of nazi spies. So you know. When world war two broke out nazi spies began spreading west from berlin hamburg into the western hemisphere looking for intelligence on america and britain and a lot of them went to south america. South america was kind of up for grabs. It was neutral continent and it was a very close. It was good listening. Post and so these nazi spies Set up shop in south america in multiple countries. They brought clandestine radio equipment. radio transmitters and they set up little pirate radio station they began sending encrypted messages back to berlin and hamburg. And this is a real problem. For american intelligence to find out what these nazi spies were saying and the fbi was completely unprepared to solve this problem because the fbi didn't have any kind of code breaking unit all the fbi had at that point was A technical research laboratory which is more like a crime lab is kind of where they analyzed bullets fibers from crime scenes and that sort of thing and yet the fbi responsibility it was to try to To try to find these nazis firings and destroyed and they just. They didn't have the technical ability to do that. And so they had to rely on somebody who did and that turned out to be elizabeth smith friedman because you know for fifteen years at that point. She had been doing target practice on rum runners and drug smugglers. It just so happened. That elizabeth had the right set of skills. When world war broke out to go after these nazi spies because it turned out that the spies we're using very similar radio equipment and very similar codes as the rum runners and drug smugglers had used so elizabeth was was ready to go and this is what she spent world war two doing she. She monitored Up to fifty clandestine radio circuits. That were used by nazi spies. She and her unit solved about four thousand different nazi messages. And they provide these messages to allied intelligence agencies to the army to the navy To the fbi and to british intelligence and then as documented in the book At the end of the war. Jaeger hoover of the fbi stuck up his hand and said America the fbi saved from this dangerous nazis spy invasion and and we'd like the credit now and and he got and elizabeth didn't he said that elizabeth saved you. Elizabeth saved you. There is so much in this book. We've just we've just kind of skimmed across the surface here. It's a it's it's fascinating from a tax standpoint from an encryption standpoint from historical standpoint the evolution of the nsa coming into being and like computer start to show up. but i mean we're talking about you know this is a you through this this this untapped microcosm of of elizabeth and her journey. You know we can actually see through history in a way that we the was his on tainted by reports in the media even the both of us are members of the media. We're seeing the birth of computer security here. We're seeing birth of counterintelligence and a lot of ways which is in the news every day now with the counterintelligence investigation into russian influence and and we're seeing the birth of the american intelligence community in a in a raw way that we don't usually get because elizabeth was not interested in publicity at all. She she she hated publicity. She couldn't stand publicist. She didn't like journalists. she would've liked this. One actually might have liked you. Because you're technical and and i'm not but yeah. I mean She she did not like the distortion of information and anyone. That she thought was being dishonest. She she was very very wary of and so when you get the history of of the birth and growth of american intelligence through elizabeth's is you you get it wrong. You get the real deal and you'll also see how much of it his constructed after the fact by by men who are trying to tell heroic versions of the tale and you know and when they told the tale they left her out of it which which i think irritated her and troubled her because as as you said she wasn't able to talk about it in the way that they were she had to keep the ultra secret Even until the end of her life and And so as a result people didn't know that she was a hero of world war two and she absolutely was was a hero even her Even her family didn't know jason. Thank you so much for coming in at least comeback us again. That was fun. Thank you so much. My guest today is jason for goni. The book is the woman who smashed codes a true story of love. Spies and the unlikely heroine who outwitted america's enemies it's published by day street an imprint of harpercollins iowa. Gun you listening. To tech nation. Welcome to tech nation. Health reimagining the future of health and healthcare with the emergence of new technologies and breakthrough science. Infectious diseases can come from many sources bacteria viruses fungi parasites and more. It can be a little difficult to grasp but if you have such a condition from a common cold to a much more serious disease you've been infected by a living organism which was somehow passed to you and you may unwittingly pass it along. The symptoms are frequently the same but the caused makes all the difference in treatment for example. If you have an infection caused by bacteria antibiotics can address the bacteria directly. But if you're condition is caused by say a virus or fungus. Antibiotics simply won't work dodger. Marco tightly at is the president and ceo of sign. Nexus which is working in the area of serious invasive. Fungal infections. I asked him. What's the difference between a bacterial infection of viral infection and a fungal infection well as officials. All these are old you to a specific pathogen. But this pathogen are very different revile viruses out of most Let's see basic type of pathogens. They need to leverage the metabolism of the cells with bay infect in order to spread and these are actually type of infections with very very common cold. The flu bechir. Ya'll infection are due to a pathogen. Which is a little bit more from an evolutionary point of view of a little bit more evolved so an organism capable of leaving by itself and it's spreading spreading around these type of infections There are of course endless Different types are bacterial infections. Inveigh and vehicle range from very very mild infections to very very severe to Especially when they involve the patients with our very fragile and the fungal infections which is be art of interest though for myself and my company is really be one of the most Veep the most evolved type of organisms more similar. Actually the human cells and this explains way of much more difficult to treat because when you try to treat a virus or bacteria where should different from ourselves but the mix somewhat easy to find good targets that don't do not damage human cells. Taken out of biotic we never think of it damaging the human cell. It's just after the bacteria. Yes because it's after the bacteria because it targets some kind of structure or in time or receptor is present only in the bacteria but as you start to move to fogel infection and buffoon gye at amman. Much more similar to our Cells it becomes more and more difficult to fine a motor septa or an enzyme which is specific for. This is why fungi have been traditionally much more difficult to treat than bacteria. Fungal infection is is it just called that or other diseases that we would call funk that happen to be fungal infections absolutely so first of all there are two major groups of fungal infections. Superficial fungal infections. Which are very common like for example On equal mycosis infections. That you have of emails Your blood that ails athlete's foot athletes food volvo vaginal candidiasis. These are all Typical typical fungal infections superficial fungal infection or infection. That you can have in in the mouth for even kind of a diaper rush in in june can be a superficial fungal infections and these are usually relatively easy to treat be. Secondary infections are infections in patients. Usually mona compromised where the fungi the opportunity to invade the body in the bloodstream of a patient compromise exactly in fact the these type of invasive infections have been really increasing in the last several decades as we improved actually our ability for example to treat patients with transplant transplantation or cancer patients with new chemotherapy. Beth tweeted for example bill region. Disease like in castle but also caused emotional. The emotional depression and when a subject is one of the breast the fungi can find a way inside the body of a patience and visa very serious infections. We mortality twenty to fifty percent mortality because Both infection is very aggressive and the patients is very funny. I these normally acquired inside say a hospital setting actually is interesting. Usually the most of infection for example candies which is the most common form of envisave Fungal infection is. That's really in endogenous infection in other ones most of the patients have out of carrying these already half of habit and compass is but the big at the supressed the from time to time to start rising shallow. Let's open the door and let's get in and Nbc's water and and of course And of course that may be also situation where actually someone can acquire Shunfa infections like for example. There are infection endemic infection like in certain areas of the Zona and new mexico that is infection called valley fever which is a common of area and these an infection of fungal infection usually form a respiratory infection like sort of a new monja but can spray that world body and also other infections lake Spill dealers is a very common fungi invade And most people be just breathing. And out the fungi. This we've got the problems but then there are situations in which the subject is. Mona compromised and the fungi once in belongs gusta to spread and stuff to grow inside the legs. Now if you have a fungal infection and your immune compromised you're already being treated for your immune comprom- whatever caused you to be. Immune compromised what. How do you treat the fungal infection for you. Know like there are antivirals antibacterial that are of course. Antifungal the envisions. What is yours. The antifungal cz are the major challenge with antifungal. However is that the differently from antibacterial. Which as i mentioned that are many possible targets with you can Go after when you fight visiting infection for antifungal should we are not too many aggregates. So they're not only basically free classes. Ivanka fungus with seven eight anti fungus compared to antibacterial. I'm curious whether you may have those kinds of classes. And what you can have hundreds of different antibacterial so we have anti us. They are effective. However it's a very limited number and so when a strain fungi becomes resistant. There is not much left and this is one of the biggest challenges that we have currently in beyond anti fungus. So what sign. Next is working on so selections. We're working on a novel. Antifungal a new class. So we are bringing it forth glass to To arm entirely oems of a doctors and a broad spectrum antifungal but can be given both orally and intravenously and the most importantly is an antifungal by belonging to a different class is active against strains that resistant to other antifungal 's so vets is really the focus of our activity in novel. Anti fungus broad spectrum able to fight resistance antifungal resistance the funk. I haven't seen it before. Therefore it's not resistant to exactly exactly of respondents. Being but chillier fungi As soon as they start to see the new weapon we still have to. They'll to think how to go around. It and the visa is going to be a endless warfare with them One things i mentioned frequently with. I truly believe that one day we will treat conditions like cancer timer Parkinson you just name it but one area one hour where we will continue to ever fight is actually infections. Because this pathogen. I'd been here billions of years before us. They will be here billions of years after us and every time we find something that can kill them well based on to work to find a way to go around so that is actually one reason. I love anti-infective so much now. Bacteria on like humans can pass information between them the between them so that if if one gets a resistance it can pass it along. You know we only pass. Dna on to our offspring What about fungi. Can they pass. Dna between them or do we have an question. Let me just say it's as you said. But but julia the weighed like transport zone plasma to actually to transfer not only to other but bacteria were same species whereas east but the humane to but chillier with different species species whereas antifungal Fungi fungi don't have this capability. They don't irvy's capability to do To use transport on plasmids to class and again is because they're Let's say biological machinery is much more complex than when one of the chilean and And so these management does not exist. Which is an advantage whereas vantage for us because is means we have an opportunity to To find to find something in knowing that will not spread if they've become resistant to someone else. Why is the effort that you're working on a fourth class. What is it targeting that the others are not we are actually be one. We are targeting in enzyme because being shown already to be very effective in anything the growth and killing actually The buffoon gye and saw we have in ulta least another class target the same enzyme. Andy scored the glucose in days. Inn is an enzyme that helps to build a hard shell around the fungi thinking like almost a coconut shell protecting a buffoon giant and this is what we do with these wrapped but shell so. The fungi will die. We have targeting so a an enzyme that doesn't mean shown already to be a very effective target but we are targeting with different kind of molecule Completely different class that the will inhibit visions. I'm in a different way. And in fact one of the advantage of this is that could be used in combination. We've other fungi to make sure that. If some of these fungi to escape by using combination we make week can be sure to nail them down so what we do by any beating vision zayn hardshell arounds. I think like a coconut. Shell just brakes now. when it breaks down there's no protection removing professional. Actually the fungi becomes like a blob. With just a just breaks down. And is marco thank you so much. Please come back and see us again. Thank you was my pleasure to be here. Thank you dr marco. Tagliatelle is the president and ceo of sign. Nexus more information is available at sign. Nexus dot com that sign nexus s. See why any x. i s sign nexus dot com for tech nation health boy. We're gonna technician at its regular segment. Biotech nation are produced at the studios of fm san francisco. Executive producer matt gardner. The director of technical production is monte. Carlos and audio engineers include howard. Gelman ceil muller and larry upton. Our theme music was composed by an knocked. Again and robert powell with title creation provided by name lab inc of san francisco program information and and internet audio is available on the web at tech nation dot com technician and biotech nation are productions of tech nation media. I'm paul land court

elizabeth william george fabian national security agency shakespeare goni america elizabeth smith friedman Fabian william friedman fbi chicago Elizabeth Elizabeth smith elizabeth smith plo bronson heidi toffler salvat
Never Normal is the Future of Work

The Tightrope with Dan Smolen

26:47 min | 1 year ago

Never Normal is the Future of Work

"Leaders need to become more comfortable with how to manage remotely I think organizations have always had this problem in a way where you hire adults and then treat them like children. I'm Dan smolen and this is the tight rope podcast. We tell the stories of people who are defining the future of work. Our guests walked the tightrope away from meaningless toil, and towards work that is profound protects the planet empowers people and is fun to do meaningful work the stories that our guests tell, and the insights that they provide will inspire you to connect with work and experiences that stoke your passions and make the world. A better place for the future work is meaningful work. Oh This week, we beat author regular Dino to discuss his new book never normal uncommon ideas for leaders who don't settle for the status quo recording our conversation during a pandemic provided, a perfect backdrop for discussing never normal and the dramatic forces that have an instant upset our traditional ways of working. With changes in where we work and the work that we do and so much uncertainty in what it means to work never normal most certainly informs the future of work we spoke with Greg for Dino earlier this week on zoom. Greg. Dino welcome to the tightrope. Hey, thanks so much for having me Dan. You are welcome. My friend. So t your new book, you call it never normal uncommon ideas for leaders who don't settle for the status quo. What's it about? Why did you write it? So it's a collection of sixteen I'll call them essays. Most of them began life as a blog is a blog post or article for a newspaper or even in some cases, a commission piece for corporate thought leadership or whatever, and there's one new essay called never normal and what I wanted to do was kind of look at the way I've been thinking about business over the course of a past number of years eight years actually the earliest piece was written in two thousand. Twelve and kind of bring them together in sort of a new context for people to kind of think about like. Well, how does this whole? What does this mean in a post pandemic world and kind of the running seem through the book if there is a running theme is the idea that a lot of the common logic the things we've come to assume to be true about the way we lead organizations no longer holds up and we need to shift our mindsets and. Change our behaviors, and that's only of course, become more relevant today right the impetus for why now was really this idea that I hear a lot of people talking about you know acknowledging that the old normal is gone and then kind of start pining for a new normal as if some new period of stability is going to emerge and we can kind of go back to some semblance of the status quo and and I don't believe that where we're headed I believe that. We need to prepare for what I call the never normal. This idea that we will have to repeatedly and reliably adapt to wave after wave of change, and that ultimately will become the kind of the strategic advantage for the organization will be in its state of always odd change readiness. You wrote that the lack of resources is something that a lot of business leaders state is a need something that has to be in place and you call it a lame excuse. Why is To me it's really it's about prioritization right? You hear a lot. You know whether it's your whether you're a marketer or you know an accountant or whatever it is wherever you are in the business. What you hear a lot of is what we can't do that. We just don't have the resources for it right and sometimes are human resources. Sometimes, it skill sets of those human resources. Sometimes, it's financial resources. Sometimes, you know can be anything technological resources on but when you kind of dig under the surface, what you find is that. For. The most part the resources exist they've digits being diverted to other things and organizations by and large from in my experience. Don't look hard enough at where they're investing resources in areas that no longer serve the business. Well, and you know the classic cases you know many organizations will kind of carve out a ten percent innovation budget right whatever the numbers and whether ten percent is the right number or not the right number. That's not you know let's not worry about that whether it'd be ninety percent or whatever. But when the budget gets cut. What's when your budgets get caught in second for the euro whatever what's the first thing to go? Not The things that are under performing it's the innovations you have done yet. So I, look at this resources argument as a way of saying look we're going to stick with the status quo. We're going to do what has worked for us in the past. I kind of like to say that like the way you've always done businesses the way you'll go out of business in. The world has changed too much for us to kind of settle back on. These are the things that have always worked for us. So that's kind of what I'm getting at with his idea of lack of resources being lame excuse. It's like it's not. It's just it's you've got the wrong priorities for a changing world you and I worked for the same Big Marketing Communications Company at different times. But the one constant that I think happened in the puzzle palace was a causality between senior executives in control mindset and I think tied to that as resources I need to be in control we were for a Looney bin. Right, and I guess we can say that goes they're no longer in business or. Work for a Looney, they had a on psychiatrist I mean come on. That was my first clue and I didn't pay attention to it but set that aside anyway. Senior executives control mindset. To have control is to garner resources that's got to be awfully terrifying for people who are twenty, five, thirty years into their careers. Tonight. I mean, it absolutely is. In, probably for people who are in some cases five or ten years into their careers, I feel like the sort of the bad habits set in quickly you know and I think that there's a lot going on in terms of the way business is changing right? You know it's like I've spoken about this a futurist named Gerd layin spoken about it to where like businesses an EGO system with a g but it gradually shifting towards ecosystem with a C. Right? Where power lies in influence not in authority wear advantage lies in access not ownership. It's fundamental shifts in the way work gets done and the way organizations thrive in a world. That's so radically different than it was when either of US worked for that Marketing Agency that shall go name but you know it is a scary thing for a lot of leaders and you know I think in the context of the book. As I've done in writing over the years I think in in some ways I, it's almost like a scared straight coming approach where I just throw the idea out there it might make you uncomfortable. It might be something you don't want to hear I might say it in a way that gets you to kind of put your backup. Go wait a second. You're not talking about me are you but it's like it's what you need to hear more than you want to hear on the flipside other work that I've been doing like through the adapt manifesto, which was modeled after the Agile Manifesto. But kind of looks at this idea of adaptability in an organization, the principles are much more warm and welcoming. What those are really about is, how do you take a leader who might be looking to drive change the organization or even leader who might be resisting change and kind of lay a foundation for ways in which that leader can adopt, and then to push through the organization, a set of new mindsets and ultimately behaviors, which is still not easy for a risk adverse leader but at least begins to give them a little bit of a framework for thinking differently. So you talked about agility, I bring up the term resiliency. Those are buzzwords I think in the future of work how does the never normal mindset and Mesh itself into the future of work The never normal mindset is as I said earlier fundamentally about readiness and certainly that's very much aligned with the idea of resilience and the idea of agility and I believe the third kind of leg on that stool is adaptability. The same things obviously, you know when I think about resilience, right there's a couple of ways to think of it. Right part of it is the ability to sort of bend and not break in ability to kind of get knocked down and stand back up. You know then the other Elliott's also like one of the challenges I. Think in some ways with a not agility resilient. So I say agility resilience, the idea resilience. Ball right use squeeze a rubber ball. It comes back a rubber ball right but organizations also need to be thinking about like should I even be a rubber ball? You know a lot of for me like never normal mindset is really all about this idea of acknowledging that there is no advantage in defending the status quo or recreating the past, and that an organization needs to be open to change embrace change fine strategic advantage and change not look at disruption as destruction but as an opportunity for creation by kind of. Acknowledging idea that any change we go through will not be the last change we go through and not settling for a minimally viable transformation right as many organizations frankly already seemed to be doing. You know people are pining for we go back to the office or kind of saying, Hey, we're all on zoom. Now check the box we're now a digital organization. They've done it right you know you know you zoom calls are not digital transformation work from home is not the future of work in and of itself it may. Distributed workforce Yes location fluidity yes. Sir permeable boundaries of an organization right between Geoghegan fulltime and freelancing consultant yes. All of these things are components but we need to be thinking about what is the next intentional change our organization can make to become a stronger organization and potentially even ultimately become a very different kind of organization than we are today. I. Think That's brilliant. You know I interviewed George Brett who is the de facto inventor of on boarding the process that helps new talent. Great properly into an organization and it's great and I used it a lot in my recruiting career and one thing that we talked about when I interviewed him back in the spring is that you know pre pandemic nine percent of us work from home. During the pandemic it's like I don't know forty, fifty sixty who knows. But you know once this thing ends if going back down and nine, it may go to twenty twenty five. That's a huge shift in never normal you know is that I may work in my home by the way room raider called that is an a plus background my brother. And it's real and it's an IT's real. Yeah. Yeah. It's not the Brady bunch kitchen. On my phone calls anyway sorry to digress but the idea of. Work will not be confined to a place. And may not be confined to a forty hour work week it'll happen when it needs to happen when inspiration hits. And I, got to imagine his terrifying a Lotta people but it's also very liberating, right? It's both of those things and you know it's it's mean to me. It's a requires people to embrace ambiguity when I say people, it's workers right as well as leaders right embrace ambiguity an entirely new way and the kind of embrace the power of an right. There is no clear black and white between You know everything's gray like we will. Kind of build on. You know you know maybe we go from nine percent to twenty percent were at fifty or sixty percent now in terms of work from home or remote work. You know we're seeing some organization say were never going back twitter other organization saying we're not quite sure. But certainly, not before mid twenty, twenty one, you're seeing other organizations like Siemens saying we'll never require you to be here five days a week, but we will want you here two or three days a week the other two days you can be remote you know so. It's this kind of 'em in office. My out of office doesn't make a different try a my remote on my in the office, a my fulltime employed or my freelance I go all these things will be. It's right. You know and that requires a thing. I. Think a very different way of thinking about work where it's not the place you go. It's the thing you do. Go to work right and that's almost like. It's clearly become a kind of a that phrase. It's like a relic of the industrial age right you don't go to work you take your work with you wherever you go. I think part of is infected. With the angst of many young parents out there who are now experience home scores. About experienced but certainly home schoolers and it's a challenge right and that's again you know we we have a either sixteen year old to could more or less take care of herself and doesn't want my help. Our is she's sixteen but a five year old who you know win school goes back in schools are opening here in New York and he'll go back on September fourteenth by becoming back on September sixteenth right. We don't know and we're seeing that happened in other places already right where a school district opened in two days. Later, there's a covert outbreak and they have to close schools again like even not knowing what that's. GonNa look like how that affects work from home how that affects ability to go back to the office it's also uncertain. That's why I believe. We need to acknowledge that this uncertainty is the steady state for now and that we need to be prepared to. kind of chart a course in reverse the course and be very nimble, and this speaks to agility. Certainly, you know in the ability to adapt in the face of change as it happened, you know rapidly and rapping certainly rapidly enough to not get stockton fall behind. I interviewed Dan Pink last week the author. And we talked about this idea of well so John will now get to work from home. He basically said, yes however, his boss will be measuring as key strokes and looking to see if he's in front of his camera. How do you break that? There's probably A. Relationship between the size and scale than organization and the tendency to Michigan's like that. Yeah, I mean that is a tough habit to break and I'm seeing that I talked to people who work for larger more traditional organizations who had I even resisted the very idea of letting people work from home until it became impossible to do otherwise. Literally weeks if not a month behind everybody else going remote, you know some of these people were like I'm still trudge again to the office and you kind of crossing my fingers I'm not the next one ventilator, and then when that person to working Ramon was exactly what you described. It was like twenty five times a day check INS and. kind of I just called you. Why didn't you answer your phone? I think it's going to ultimately in its uneasy process overnight Got It. Flip the switch kind of thing leaders need to become more comfortable with how to manage remotely and I think organizations have always had this problem in a way where you hire adults and then treat them like children. And people who have learned to manage that way. Now, need to relearn. There's. You know What's his name Forgetting the name now So bizarre reference him all the time and I used the quote all the time we integrated the principal into the manifesto Alvin Toffler. Eddie forget a name like Alvin, toffler like the world's most famous futures ease in one of his books said the illiterate of the twenty first century won't be those who can't read or write but those who can't unlearn relearn. It's true in so many areas you apply that to technological upskilling, for example, but it certainly applies to the way we lead you know. So it's like how do we unlearn the way we learned to lead from our boss when we were twenty one and relearn an entirely new way to lead an organization. You mentioned Alvin Toffler GonNa make you blush. Is, niece Marjorie listens to this podcast. I shouldn't have forgotten his name. I Love Toffler, and he in the third wave, he mentioned a place I went to work for called Cube, Q. U. B., which was the world's first two way interactive cable system. Capable Systems were all completely analog. His voice would really resonate right now. We are in future shock in many ways. Yeah. Yeah. I I kind of feel like others have used a similar sentiment, but it's like actually more like shock the now right? It's like. If the rate of change was such that it would induce future shock in one thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, right you know with change being exponential it's like so bad. Now, we can't even see past today. Sits it's crazy, right but it is the reality we live in. You and I came out of the agency space. So to speak and the space we were in. God very big to the point that really great companies like the one we worked for gobbled up and then got gobbled up again and now are unrecognizable I look back at some of the companies I worked for I can't really tell where they are right now or who owns the assets because there's been so much acquisition going on. I look at never normal and I think the myself. Is that GONNA? Be The death of really big companies I mean because big companies rely on a certain amount of status quo and get to achieve financial scale. You have to have a lot of control in place. What do you think about that? I don't like I used to like to think in absolutes might I don't like to think in absolutes so much anymore maybe that's that is an element of sort of never normal thinking or adaptive thinking I think a lot of large organizations will and will indeed struggle I think that they are struggling. Right we're seeing you know for all of the thing that large organization has to its advantage, the resources whether they allocate them in the right way or not the ability to attract talent the customer Base Brand Equity Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera. It's ironic that large organizations have you know failed to lead through some of these things that have been transforming around us right because of their reliance on the status quo. I do think that large organizations have a challenge and I think it's even more ironic in the world of marketing right where your audience in theory at least has become smaller and smaller in the sense that the promise of one to one marketing has become more and more reality over time. Man, that was the premise, my marketing book ten years ago. Micro Marketing. That kind of small is the new big I guess to paraphrase Seth Godin. Premise was that we don't need to market to the masses. We need to market to the passionate few and then let. The magic happen. Right and we're seeing that play out today in micro influencers and so on and so forth. But. As this trend was happening, the marketing agencies were getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and the work they've been producing has been more generic, more generic, more generic more generic as humans have gotten as have gained the ability through the magic of the Internet, and everything else to embrace the more specific. Right. If you're into, you know Nordic cat death metal, you're gonNA find a community of people and somebody who's serving that community but agencies think the answer to that is to become bigger than before and I was actually talking to somebody earlier today about this sort of challenge where the more data we have the better we understand the individual customer. The less creative we become in ways of engaging the individual customer and the same is true for employees quite frankly especially when you get into large organizations and or education right creating a one size fits all infrastructure and shoehorning everybody in. So I do think that's going to be continued to be a struggle for organizations and I knew maybe a large organization. I don't think this is a perfect solution, but maybe a large organization needs to think in terms of kind of creating the to speed organization right where you've got the folks who were optimizing day to day operations because he's you know you can't stay in business if he can't keep the lights on but at the same time, making sure that there is a, you know a part of the organization that is responsible for innovation that's incremental or moon shots, and then for bringing sorted the kind of socializing scaling it back into the organization over time. Never normal to me really informs the future of work from the standpoint of what does it mean to work. Within my own household, my wife teaches gifted kids. But that's not all. She doesn't a day. She has two storefronts one on St one another channel she sells vintage clothes. I'm doing my thing together we're doing things. It used to be you had a job you went home your day was carved up into thirds. The experience is so different now and I think a lot about the typical American icebreaker when you meet a stranger and you the third question is. Joe What do you do? How do you do that? Yeah. I mean I'm running a fulfillment operation I'm a podcast or and I'm running a media company. How do you make that resonate? I dread that question I dread I didn't like it back in the old days when I had to amid I'm in advertising or direct mail could then you get the the sideways glance but you're absolutely right right. You know my wife and I together run content marketing agency. I'm an author I'm a speaker right. I make music on the side I i. You know I'm doing adapt manifesto collaborator on adapt manifesto, and I are working on elearning company to start to train and certify people on some of those principles you know. Then at the same time, of course, I'm also by default at the moment, a home schooler, a babysitter. There's almost no way to you know to introduce yourself other than to Sam a person right at this point, it sounds ridiculous. But what do you do? It's like I can't answer that question anymore and I use that. This is what work looks like now and I don't think we're going to go back. We can shove it back into the box. Of course, some people will You know in this again, come like the power of and and not kind of thinking it will be absolutely one way or another for everybody in the world. But there will I'm sure be people who I'm a lawyer I'm just a lawyer always been a lawyer I worked for the same firm for forty three years. I'm retiring gold watch that much rarer than it was. Let's say our parents generation but everybody's experience of what it means to work and what it means to live is so unique at this point which sounds trite and weird but that it's the future of work is flexibility a lot of ways. And I hope liberating. Greg Dina this has been fun. I haven't seen you in like twenty five years so. Thank you. Thank you and congratulations on your new book. Point. Our listeners to your social media so they can learn more about never normal. Sure. Absolutely. So while my website is Greg Ver- Dino Dot Com. If you can spell my name you can find me pretty much anywhere. So twitter's a great place to find me at. Greg Nino of course, Greg Bird Dino unlinked in all that kind of good stuff to and the book is available everywhere Amazon wherever books are available. What. Is it? They used to say wherever fine books are available? Online. Very good. Thank you so much. Links to regular dino social media are provided in the show notes for this episode Dan Smolin Dot. com. please. Join us again for more inspiring stories from people who walked the tightrope to seek and do meaningful work. You can subscribe to us where you get your podcasts or listen to current and past episodes on our website at Dan. Smolin. Dot Com. I'm Dan Mullen and this is the tight rope podcast together. Let's walk the tightrope to find and do meaningful work for the future of work is meaningful work and you remember this our best days lie ahead. Let's connect again next week.

Greg Bird Dino Alvin Toffler twitter Greg Dan smolen Dan US Dan Mullen Dan Pink George Brett Siemens Big Marketing Communications C accountant Greg Ver Seth Godin New York Gerd Elliott Michigan
The Spark Guide to Civilization, Ep 4 - Attention

Spark from CBC Radio

55:04 min | 3 months ago

The Spark Guide to Civilization, Ep 4 - Attention

"I'm i host of ideas in this age of click bait and online. Shouting ideas is a meeting ground for people who want to deepen their understanding of the world. Join me as we crack. Open a concept to see how it plays out over place time and how. It matters today from the rise of authoritarianism to the history of cult movies. No idea is off. Limits ideas is on the cbc listening. Or wherever you find your podcasts. This is a cbc podcast. Hi i'm nora. Young and this is the spark guy to civilization each week in the series. We do a deep dive into a single issue in society. Exploring how we've managed it over the course of civilization through technological innovation and design on this episode from december. Twenty twenty a look at attention early humans. Surely they had great attention spans right. Nothing distracting them from learning how to use tools and build fires and knock at eaten by animals The good old days but some evolutionary psychologists have speculated that not all. Our early ancestors were diligent. There were plenty of novelty seekers and artists to the kind that likes to daydream rather than pay attention in spear throwing class. Go skip ahead okay. Way ahead to the year. Nineteen hundred the second. Industrial revolution was in full. Pretty swing american magazine. The saturday evening post princeton editorial that blames technology for america's growing inability to stay focused gene ships. That telegraph and this new telephone are making today's citizens impatient with any delay and so began a long history of blaming new tech for diminished ability to pay attention in nineteen sixty four american social scientist bertram. Gross i use the term information overload and all. The other guys jumped on board the electric. Everything happens at once. Marshall mcluhan of course everything goes over everything. Else and alvin toffler. It is possible to overload people. The change that has puzzled overwhelm their ability through that. And all of this long before the internet was in our pockets of people shop institution around this time. Herbert simon warned that our wealth of information was creating a poverty of attention. Church information dort memory and before you know it. We were headed for the attention. Economy sharks relation by the twenty tonnes. We were fully aware that our attention span had been monetize d- so many things to click on get lost in to to be exposed to ads and all in the palm of our hands. Everyone was talking about it including us on spark now what we need to be concerned about is the management of attention just as much as the management of information has been designed without thinking about our attention. Anything that takes us out of the moment takes us out of ourselves away from each other and you know the moment is where life is in two thousand fifteen reputable media outlets all over. The world reported that thanks to digital technology. The human attention span was now less than that of a goldfish and scientists thing that growing use of mobile internet could be to blame. They got that from an info graphic in report by microsoft canada's consumer insights team one really incorrect info-graphic that was not based on the research of the actual report. Eight seconds puts us just behind the average goldfish despite there being zero science to back it up the myth of the goldfish attention span persists because internet and that brings us to today so much information and misinformation to digest so many benjamin tv episodes that load automatically one after another so many video meetings so many candies to crush. Maybe it's not so much that our attention span is shorter. Maybe it's really that there just so many things clamoring for attention all the time i know for myself. I'm dogged by the nagging thought that i'm paying attention to the wrong things. That life is passing me. By while i go at my insta- feed it's easy to feel that we're in a state of what linda stone has called continuous partial attention. So is the problem that our attention spans are dwindling has been a concern forever sort of this perennial concern. That we think are kids are different than we are in some really bad way. The grandkids are even worse. This is thomas hills. He's a professor of psychology at the university of warwick in the uk he studies evolution of information and cognition and their relation to things like language memory decision. Making there is good evidence that you when when people started writing things down. You know this sort of greek epic poems that people are memorized and that people had really great memories back then you can imagine that when people started writing things down. The older adults are probably like a you know. They can't remember anything anymore. And then of course you put in her racer on a pencil and there were huge amount of complaining about that. Part of thomas's research looks at how our attention works and how elements in our environment can affect how it functions. I initially started my research adventure by studying worms and nematodes which are about a millimeter long into a first approximation. They cover the earth and these little characters have a behavior. That's familiar to us. All basically they look for things and they look for things like if you imagine what you would look for. Say a piece of cake in the refrigerator open refrigerator. You know you put it on the second shelf yesterday and so you go looking for it on the second shelf but it's not there and so your mind says okay. Well it's not there. Maybe i should check the shelf beneath the one above you move the milk a bit and slowly. You give up on the idea that it's in the refrigerator and you start looking more quickly throughout the rest of. Let's say the kitchen. And maybe eventually find the plate in the sink or something like that. And so the nematode does the same thing. When is looking for food you when it moves off food for example or away from it will turn around and then over time it will eventually give up will stop turning around as much and it turns out that every creature on the earth. Basically that moves. Does this behavior has lots of fancy names like a restricted search and concentrated search. And things like that. But it's basically the ability to change your mind and these little guys who have all three hundred two neurons do it. So what exactly affects our ability to pay attention. Well i don't think about everything from the perspective of a worm but in this case the analogy works because if we're getting a reward from our environment and then for them that would be food but for us. It's usually some kind of information so we feel there's some kind of valuable information and so we're paying attention to that and that information oftentimes is perceived in relation to things that we already know so. If this is something i know about that i can recognize it as being valuable. Maybe it's social information about someone. I care about or pop star that i'm interested in or something like that and so what is happening. We've all had that experience where we're having trouble paying attention to things. So what is going on there. Why do we sometimes have trouble paying attention. Probably the best sort of evolutionary explanation. We have for that is that there's competing things in the environment. So if whatever environment wherein maybe we're online for example the so many other interesting things to pay attention to pay off really quickly they pay off in images of interesting things. Food potential mating partners. That kind of competition is hard for say a long form article you know in the london review of books or something like that. It's really hard to pay attention to something that's going to require you. Sit there for five or ten minutes when you could just skip over to twitter and you start getting this immediate and fast information right plugged into your brain From a sort of environmental perspective would something like times of uncertainty or danger play a role in our ability to pay attention. And the reason that often seems to be true at least from this perspective that i've described before would be the potential value of this information that you're not paying attention to could be very high so for example magin you live in a world that has a lot of predators. That could come along each you or your children or whatever. Then you've always got vigilant and you've got to be vigilant because you don't know where they might be coming from and so in times of arousal and uncertainty especially when risks are high. We tend to find ourselves spending a lot of time looking around wondering. Where's the threat. Somebody's told us. There's a threat. The media keeps telling us there's threats all around us and so suddenly it becomes very difficult than to pay attention to these sort of things that require more of our attention because the value as our mind does these sort of calculus of this other things be quite high especially if you get it wrong. In this case this may be speculative but in a situation like the current pandemic. Where we we feel there are risks. Even if it's not about a sabertooth tiger jumping out in eating us Do you think that we might be for that reason. We might be having more trouble concentrating during the pandemic. oh for sure for sure. I think the nature of the risks such especially since we don't really understand them makes it really difficult for us to know what to think about in this context. There's not really a precedent. I mean i don't think there's too many of us that were alive in nineteen eighteen. Or let's say old enough to remember what what might have been like and so we don't really have good examples of this. So we're all in many respects kind of experiencing something that we can only have read about maybe in the history books and most of us. Probably haven't we maybe have seen stories about it in movies or read books about contagion epidemics and so we recognized that this could potentially in hollywood fashion dangerous quickly. And so that's going to take your mind off whatever it is. You're worried about not only that in times of uncertainty the to plan ahead those things that you've planned for five years down the road ten years down the road the probability that they're actually going to happen changes and so now the the premise that could stick with whatever your plan was that's going to be fulfilled in some distant point in the future. Well that just got really uncertain now and so now not only you could say are their potential threats in a sense. Your mind might be looking for opportunities because you know the things that you've set your heart on might not be there five years down the road when it comes to our ability to pay attention. Are the modern sort of eight hour. Workday and our conventional educational systems are designed for the way our attention spans work. Probably not and that's partly because educational systems like any kind of business and even science. There's lots of constraints that have to be satisfied. You've got a lot of kids coming through. It needs to be efficient economically efficient. The teachers need to be able to have some level of control in order for students to learn in these environments. And if you might imagine trying to design those environments for kids minds. I mean what are the kinds of things that you can really spend a lot of time paying attention to maybe a little bit as we get older we can sit around and watch a really long lecture but what we're really good at doing or sort of playing games around the dinner table. We can play games with people. We can have a conversation and there's a dialogue and there's a sense of active engagement and of course if you tried to design a classroom that way you've got one teacher who's probably reasonably well trained for this but she or he going to have to interact with thirty children in an ongoing dialogue that sufficiently engaging to capture all their many varied interests. That's a huge huge challenge What about for us as adults are. We designed to focus on particular task for an eight hour day. I often wonder that sit by my desk. I mean i think for me anyway. It's like sometimes. I get really get carried away and it's like something has to common physically. Take me away from my desk. 'cause i'm so into this little world that i've created or that i'm reading about so in one sense i mean if anybody else's attention is like mine and i think the statistics suggest they are. It's like once you can just get stuck in something right and just want to keep doing it. You meet somebody new and you just want to hang out with them forever right me for you know for a really long time and you could whereas in another sense if something's not quite as engaging as you'd like it to be you just want to give up and so that speaks to the sort of flexibility of our attention. This is one reason why i think home. Educators have talked about say over the last thirty forty years. It's a really valuable way to teach kids because if you have the luxury of home educating child they can get carried away in something and then you can just sort of. It's almost like putting logs on the fire right. You just feed this fire and they become so engaged by something that suddenly they're thinking about. Maybe the physics chemistry of whatever. The interesting thing is that they're interested in like superheroes or something like that right then. The science becomes interesting for them or the literary context becomes interesting for them. But of course that's going to be really hard to do in a classroom when all these kids can be taken away by so many different things. Yeah i think a lot of us who grew up in an analog era. Feel like we can't read as deeply or for as long as we used to have a sense of how our attention spans changed in a digital era. Actually quite a bit of research on this and more coming all the time evidence. It seems quite good. That if you're reading something online let's just say how long it is. The odds that you'll finish is much lower than if you're reading it off line so you're reading something on physical paper in front of you. You have a much higher probability of finishing it then if you're reading it on a web page for example and that probably has to do based on the things that i was talking about earlier this just so much more competition. You've got the world at your fingertips when you're online whereas if you're sitting there with the book it's almost as if your mind kind of knows you know. Well there's a certain kind of friction price. You're going to have to pay to change over to put this document down move over to go to your desktop or whatever else whereas if you're already on your desktop flipping over to your email or twitter takes milliseconds. Yes who is that. What's going on. Because i was thinking about the way. My attention span. Online spaces seems to flip all over the place. But at the same time we have this phenomenon of giant doorstop stopper books like the wolf hall series. Or you know elliott franchise trilogy. That people seem to really delight into sinking into so is it is it. Just the opportunity cost of switching tasks or is something else going on there. I mean we know that. For example task switching is costly for example if you have one person doing something like you know filling numbers out in four and they can switch over to another task where suddenly they have to listen to somebody and repeat something takes a while for people to restart this new task to figure out what exactly they need to do even if they've done it a lot before so that task switching is costly men presumably our minds. No this right so we know that even if we put the book down walk over to the computer we still have to pay a certain price to sort of change the frame in context that were in in order to do that but yeah not sure that we really know that well like exactly what it is and it'd be great if you could just give somebody pill maybe right and in fact you can do that. Motive hills one of them. I mean there are a lot of these things right so in the last ten or fifteen years. People have talked a lot about cognitive enhancements. Methylphenidate ritalin methamphetamine breaking bad fame. And things like that. I mean there's the illegal varieties but then there's prescription varieties and caffeine and things like that. So yes there is a chemistry right and of course that just speaks to the whole biology. That underlies the attention. It's not as if our brains were designed for the specific world that we live in now and in principle we train ourselves or modify ourselves in some way in order to better adapt or be a better adapted for environment that were currently in. You're listening to spark from your friends at cbc radio nor young today. We're talking about attention how it works and what affects our ability to maintain it right now. My guest is thomas hills. He's a psychology professor and co director of works global research priority in behavior brain in society is work focuses on the evolution of information and our minds. Do you have a sense of what our use of social media how that's affecting our ability to pay attention will for me. It's not good. And i think that's true of most people know who use social media and the problem often has to do with kind of a wormhole or the rabbit hole. You think you're going to go on social media for a few seconds to check on something but there's a thousand destructors and before you know it you've wild away half an hour or longer flicking through your instagram or twitter or whatever else me. When i was a kid we would turn on the tv and the same thing happened. Then i mean it's not as if the social media fee that you have or the television programs were designed with you in mind with your best interests in mind. I mean they're they're factor designed precisely to capture your attention and to engage for as long as possible. And i think one of the things that's happening quite clearly now. Is that the data that you give people when you use. Online platforms is so rich. That algorithms effectively can recognize the kinds of things that will keep you online just a little bit longer and then they can just feed these things to you a bit like the would you would throw in the fire for the child who's interested in studying the physics of superheroes except in this case. It's the social media platform. That's feeding your particular kind of thing to keep you online just for a little longer. So we find ourselves in this period of the attention economy where tech companies and apps are competing for attention. How has the attention economy affected our ability to be attentive so a lot of my research focuses on the effects of information proliferation. That's basically the underlying economics of the attention economy. So all the things you could pay attention to. That's a market information as a market and we basically all contribute to this market at this point. I mean the un. I think estimates that something like more than four billion people have cellphones now. So that's pretty much more than half world's population could send you an email or could put something on twitter for example and so it's not as if then the algorithms have to be very smart because the more that we produce the more that we push into the economy the more likely that someone gets lucky the more likely that you see these sort of social cascades where the just a little bit of noise and suddenly were all clicking on the same thing so these videos and things like that that go viral in this article that i wrote with filippo sir. We talk about how as more people crowded into this market. The evidence suggests the average quality of information goes down. That's in part because there's two things going on so one is we just can't pay attention to everything and so we don't have the same kind of filter that we used to have now are filters ten seconds fifteen seconds whether we decide to re tweet it or not or share it with someone else or click on it or whatever whereas in the past when there wasn't so much competition we might spend longer evaluating whether something's really evaluate or not and now off the times not only reevaluating whether it's value but we're also doing the secondary evaluation. Would other people think this is valuable and so that leads us to sort of we all act as a filter and we processing all these four billion let's say tweets and kind of get kind of cream that rises to the top but it might not be the same cream rising to the top if you many fewer people contributing to that economy. So that's you could say. The sort of dynamics of the attention economy is it's a market and markets create demand for certain kinds of things but they can also lower equality of things surprisingly in cinch academy because we just can't pay attention to everything as much as we could if there was only say a few things for sale. So is there anything we can do that or rian constant downward slide as more and more of us to go into these spaces. It's it's amazing to me. That people are thinking about this problem right now. They're everywhere not too many days. Go by i. Don't get articles in my inbox or people asking me. What are we gonna do about this problem. And i'm just not sure. I don't think anybody quite has the right answer right now. Is it something we should be teaching kids about in school. Does there need to be some kind of online intelligence that people need to have. Would that be helpful. What exactly would you teach children. And so that's part of the question. What about legislation should we be legislating people's ability to produce kinds of content online. Should we be trying to control the speech. And there's a huge divide on this and oftentimes. I'm not even sure where. I sit on this because you hear dramatically different examples of the cost of doing certain kinds of things so you can shut down free speech but then you potentially create huge problems where you can have sort of secret. Lee horrible things happening behind the scenes that none of us know about we talked about how the design of some of our technologies plays into the attention economy and fractures attention. Are there ways. That design could improve our ability to pay attention. I imagine that because this attention market exists. There's more people who will try to crowd into that market so the market which actually helps you think better about the things that you want to think about. Those kinds of things might be things that lock you out of certain parts of your computer that you agree to right so you basically say yes. I want to use this tool which is going to make it so that i can only check my email every once in a while Twice a day or something like that as opposed to every five minutes or whatever it's for the average person there are some thing really really really cool ideas out there. Give be one example. Nobody's crack this yet. But it's really interesting thing if you look at things that are the most memorable you've seen. Let's say in the last twenty four hours or twenty four months. What are the most memorable things you've seen when researchers go and look at this. What they find is that information on social media is often incredibly memorable and more so than say the average book were reading a newspaper article that you read or something that somebody told you those things that come on certain social media platforms can be hugely memorable and on average they are and so what if you could use that to create the kinds of content that you wanted kids to have example or the you want other adults to have suppose i was gonna teach you about something. That's really important to a lot of us. Let's say climate change or something like that or political intelligence or something like this. I was going to teach you this. How could i best each well. The standard way in the past. I write a book about it. Or maybe i right along form article about it. But what. If i could do it with tweets right. What if i could serve. Just say the right words. That sort of magically glued this information to your mind so that's becoming something that more plausible now than it was in the past and of course people are trying to do that with various kinds of things and so it's quite likely that we're already figuring out how to do it but if you look at the history of american english. American english has changed dramatically. In the last two hundred years. It's become shorter sentences. They become more concrete. Americans are more kurt when they're speaking to people they're more likely to use a metaphor with sort of a concrete image speaking to people and so in a way you can say this is a really hard selection on language to be more informative to give you more information more quickly than you would have gotten it say two or three hundred years ago and so this efficient communication is already happening. It's actually been having for thousands of years but it's still happening and it might still be happening say with you know social media platforms. That would be a way somewhat indirect now to improve our attention right by effectively giving our attention what it want thomas. Thanks so much for your thoughts on this. Thanks for having me. Thomas hills is fellow at the turing institute and the director of the behavioral data science masters program at the university of work in the uk. Coming up more on attention with a look at the relationship between our sense of time and what we pay attention to and a lot of us are paying attention to talk these days. We explore what it is about those oso short snack size videos that holds our attention. You know you're smart funny friends. Who always seem to have the best celebrity gossip. I'm talking about the ones who always know we should be watching or reading or listening to. What have you could pick their brains every week. Pop chat is a brand new podcast but does exactly that and feels like spending time with your best friends. So join me alina my mood. And a panel of the smartest culture. Critics that i know as we dissect the discourse but also have a great time doing it. I'm nora young. And you're listening to episode four of the spark guy to civilization all about attention next week in the series privacy. What the concept of individual privacy is meant historically as it evolved over thousands of years and how it's woven tightly with power one way to start thinking about. It is through the connection between knowledge and power so francis bacon wrote about how the more not as you have the more power you have on this very intuitive thing. The more you know about someone the more you can predict their behavior influences and so on but go also run about monitoring power in the reverse sense in the sense of and power is also not and that means that if you have a lot of power you can you get to decide what as knowledge and we are seeing a lot of that with tektite on so google gets to decide what counts as large about you day to decide what personal data shared with others. And that's knowledge about you. In some cases they might be inaccurate in some cases by very biased or just a slice of view but that gets to counters. What other people think about you. How our notions of privacy changed in the digital age. And what might that mean for our future. That's coming up on the next episode of the spark guide to civilization. This is spark from your friends. At cbc radio today we're talking about attention and the art of capturing with video offerings that last fifteen to sixty seconds tick talk asks very little of us and yet those short videos can hold our attention for hours to talk as a social platform that lets the user combined video sound photography text and effects as a form of self expression. It's so popular that back when canadians were in the first wave of the pandemic the app set a record for most apt downloads in a single quarter it surpassed two billion downloads worldwide. And he batavia is responsible for at least one of them and he moved avia in. I am an artist writer in culture producer base in toronto two phases of discovering to top. The first one was a friend sent an article. That was talking to talk with blowing up. And i downloaded it and i was very overwhelmed right. Open the app. And i saw like a young person dancing in a very confused and i deleted it immediately. And then the second time that i discovered it was during the first lockdown back in march when hundreds and thousands and millions of people were going on off as a way to. I don't know maybe. As way to distract themselves to entertain themselves express themselves during this global event and so i was drawn to it as well and and i have looked back since with dick your most engaging with strangers because you have A four page is what people call it and that for you page is based on an algorithm. So you know your your algorithm will change over time based on what you're liking and what you're spending time on but then what captures you is that you're getting all this content that you really really like you see one video and relax on one more and he scroll and then you see another and anything kind of goes back to sort of this broader on station a lot of these ads really playing on your dopamine. We can't live without Human media and they're they're looking for that stimulation for for dopamine so because of the short snippets. I think it really sort of manipulates in. That's when you know time there's no sense of time. I have gone through so many phases until dog. There was the racial uprising. That happened and i just saw the most beautiful content around that people really advocating in speaking their truth in showing footage from protests all around the world over his flower cake. Flour always have food in the background of like all of this. I just love. Obviously people make differentes. And then i stumbled upon spiritual talk often is like talking about the latest like full moon or new mood or the astrology and cosmology. I stumbled upon all tick talk. Black farmer ticked jaw india Because i'm south-asian i'm on philosophy. Take talk right. Now which is really great learning glides i think perception of time has changed is and it's hard to know what is changed into there's a disconnection with time right where every day will save and there's not certain things to differentiate. So how do you tell a monday for friday when the exact same thing has happened wearing the same outfit. You're on sitting in the same chair. You're in the same things. And i think that's impacted our perception of time. And then the second part is because we are living in the unknown that we can't necessarily make plans in the same way. And so there's not a time marker for the future because everything is like well everything can change and people are not thinking as long term in the same way i find at least for myself. It's very present and which is actually quite beautiful in some ways is we've come very become very present but i think it's an interesting question like why maybe sort of some of these platforms have risen during this time and how we use them and maybe span you know an hour or two hours of them on it every day. I don't watch that much. Tv winston of the world is in sort of a different cycle but tiptop to me is kind of been that tv. Substitute is kind of a way to decompress. Batavia is an artist and writer based in toronto. You're listening to episode four of the spark guide to civilization all about attention it first aired in december twenty twenty. I love the way he may talked about. The feeling of being in eternal present during the pandemic choosing to swipe through videos rather than click through channels suggests an intriguing relationship between time technology and attention. I think question might be like what we decided to pay attention to. And what does that mean. I think it would speak to what could change our what should change this. Is sarah sharma. She's associate professor of media. Theory at the ic cit faculty information at the university of toronto. She's also director of the maclean center for culture and technology. Everybody keeps talking about kovic time and one of the things i think super interesting is sort of singular narrative that there is a new experience of time that is universal. People have deeply different experiences of time. Creek ovid They're going to post kovin. But i think one of the things that is definitely shared is an alteration to the rhythm of the day and this is a deep alteration to the rhythm of the day phelps by everybody and it's not so much that whether or not we have more time or less time but rather how to be in time is the thing that has been altered and i think this is where some of these cultural anxieties about timer flowing out over. Like how do i now in time. How do i inhabit time differently now so it isn't really a matter of do i have more time or do i have less time. Obviously different populations depending on the type of work they do. We'll have more time or less time. But regardless the flow. And the rhythm of everybody's day has been altered and that can be a confounding experience for some people and it also means that the type of people that find themselves in the same space are different. So that shifted in the rhythm of your days before kovac's who you would see who you who you didn't even know you weren't seen would be another way to think about this and i've always been interested in how much we learn about the world by how we share space with one another how we pacify each other. How the rhythm of the day as a sort of indicates sort of politics to it of where you stand even in terms of your control of time or the way you use other people's time to manage your own time and so this is what i mean to say that there's been a deep alteration in that rhythm of our day and how does their sense of this this different sense of time we have. How does that impact the technologies that we choose. Well i think technologies are often thought of to be time management. Things use technologies to manage time but also having a good relationship to time as often imagined to me because you have a good relationship to technology. The doesn't make sense. This is basically a market is way of thinking about how technology is a solution to our time anxieties when it actually produces more anxieties and also in the same way that i was thinking the fact that it was so easy to navigate a world without a greater community in greater collectively because of our smartphones. And i think this is scary. How can lockdown was so easy technologically. Easy huckabee so easy for all these companies Why did certain companies get wealthy and some conspiracy but there was something already about the closing off of community and the closing off of collectively and thinking about care in different ways and thinking about other people's labor that was already culturally there. And then cova just heightened it new heightened it with your smartphone. Suddenly the world was still available to you in all these other ways and it's also very empty feeling right like i had friends posting on twitter and facebook like i didn't realize how much i consumed until cova or i didn't realize all i really liked to do go to restaurants and i thought what was interesting what that tuesday you magin this dynamic city of full of possibilities there's people everywhere and it's super exciting and that's something we're all morning but at the same time who said what were we doing with all of our time anyways and may also the answer to that wasn't always satisfying from the spark archives twenty twelve. I'm cloudera and professor of computer. Science at the american university of pairs participants to the experiment arrows to count the number of time. The ball is passed in the white team. What happens is the about. Two percent of the participants will not see a big gorilla. Actually the men were dressed up as it goes through the scene because they're so into counting not see it now. The reason why this happens this ways because we have what is called working memory capacity which is something that allow us to control attention so one thing we need to start doing stu to get a better understanding of how this happens in the real environment and how to own one and make sure that what needs to be seen seen but also we done generating fear it's one classic things for example is the division between what is called exogenous attention. That is something that captures your attention. If you're reading and you hear a noise that will just attract your attention whether you like it or not and the other is no jenness. Attention is what we actually want to attend and so we can direct our attention to something and the way. These two presses is is really difficult to grasp if we can use these different dimensions and then we may be able to provide the information to the user and interact with the user in a way that is not as disturbing as interfering as devices are. Now you're listening to spark from your friends at cbc radio. I'm nora young today. We're talking about the relationship between time technology and attention particularly during the pandemic right now. Guest is sarah shara. She's associate professor of media. Theory at the ic cit faculty information at the university of toronto and director of the maclean center for culture and technology. One of the things that we talked about on the show was The growing popularity of tick talk. Which of course on one sense doesn't require a ton of time and commitment each videos sort of fifteen to sixty seconds long. What do you think about the the appeal of talk and other than it being very fun and bring joy to people's alive. I think yeah. I would think of talk is something that fits into the flow of the day and the structure of the day in a new way. It doesn't ask much of you. It gives you more than you give it to a certain extent But at the same time to talk as sort of stark example is something that we see elsewhere in the online experience where we flip from one short post to another often without even getting to the end of it but at the same time we're drawn into this feed and before long hours have passed rights of the individual snippets are very short but then we can find ourselves spending extended periods of time in these spaces. So what do you make of that. Dual nature of time and attention online. Losing ourselves in these new spaces perhaps. Is that what you're suggesting it. I think it's interesting to me culturally. We'll either talk about something like doom scrolling which is considered to be like something negative. We do we lose ourselves in this flow of information and then something like take talk which is still you know. Some people consider it to be like a mindless use of our internet time but it has a sort of different valence to it right. It's not considered the same thing as like doom scrolling but in both cases there's something about them that feels good in terms of your lost in some flow of time. Where like you lose yourself in. You're in zone. And in that way. I think they're very comparable to each other that i wouldn't say like any sort of technology holds our attention differently than another one we can. I think technologies at work right now for the ones who are paying the most attention to are the ones that allow us to enter them. And don't ask for anything while we're entering them and in some ways. This is a really relaxing experience for people. Even if it produces heightened fear It produces joy like last year. If we think something like tick talk. Yeah what what would be some other. Examples of those technologies. Allow us to do that kind of entering the you're talking about. I think most would allow us but it also depends on what what are culturally acceptable forms of losing your time. I think of it too like when we were walking around the streets right now when you go through your daily walk you see people with their ear. Buds in new c. Looking windows. I sound like a stalker. Him staring at everybody. Just probably a point of his point. Appointive connection like what is everybody doing but when you past somebody with their ear buds on used to always means somebody was working for you walk by. Somebody's window during the day. And everybody's on their computer screens. You imagine that this is a work day. you see people gesticulating. Wildly talking to somebody on his own caller. He's just see people sitting back with their laptops. And i've often laughed to myself like what if everyone's just sitting at home watching tv and everyone's just walking around listening to a podcast but everybody just looks so busy. And i thought this was actually quite interesting if you compare it to what happens in office culture because we do use technologies in the office and we do go on take talk in the office and facebook and we doom scroll and we do get into the zone. Even we're supposed to be at work but it looks like you're working but if somebody were to sit back at their desk at work and just put on a netflix show and bring out their popcorn. They're probably getting some trouble or get some odd. Looks from people so yeah. I don't know if there's something specific about the content so much as how the actual technology or the platform fits within a flow of the day and fits within our cultural ideas about productivity Because you mean you can sort of treated as a little snack. That is something that you sort of falls into if at least if you're a desk worker that it folds into the rest of your foes into the rest of your day it's not it doesn't necessarily look disruptive to what looking busy looks like and so i think we don't talk about this off but which is the performance of business which is part of i think an anxiety during kovic which is am i doing cove right. Am i managing my cova. Day properly Where do you think that anxiety comes from. What is that speaking to our this time work discipline it's along. I think it's a long held cultural idea about time. I mean since industrialization with clocks and the factory floors and punching in punching out and in particular. We're talking mostly about the population of office workers or people working from home not so much. Frontline workers gig workers in this way. But there's no the markers for the day are gone. And so i think there is fear about. Are you spending your time properly. Or why do i have extra time. What is the fact that some people suddenly have all this extra time revealing about the work day they had before i find myself thinking what the heck was i doing in the office all that time because they seem to have so much time right even if i do fake commute and i it's making me reflect on how i was spending my time before do you think the pandemic is shutting light on new light on how we spend our time and attention. Oh i think completely. And i think it's also producing a lot of nervousness. One thing to say like people have more time. And it's another to say we're exhaust. Were exhausted so i think there's a greater expensive time that's needing to be managed in a different way but i don't think that means that people aren't exhausted to imagine that we have extra time now or more time would almost be is for saying well. People are well rested right. But i think what's interesting is there's crater expensive time to manage and that doesn't necessarily mean one isn't exhausted. I don't know if it's just me. But i i find. I'm having trouble focusing on the things that are most important or that. I really want to pay attention to rather than just kind of filling up my time. That and i'm sure i can't be alone in that. Why why do you think it's so hard to to focus on what we really want. Pay attention to. I think also the sense of the what our future is. Whatever we thought it was before Not like we actually control the future before. But what's ahead of is rather unknown and so but i also think the sense of like wanting to do this time. Well sort of culturally problematic like. Are you living cova to the best of your ability or are you living your kovic time. Well and it's also a sense of. Are we missing out on something by not accomplishing something or not doing something well. During this time like was cova great. Missed opportunity for that hobby that you never got around boom. All of this speaks to that cultural and towards productivity and also to extracting more and more workout of us and also producing anxiety. We will ask ourselves if we're spending our time properly. Are we falling behind. How how will we come out of. This will be expected to do these same things. While i have to commute again so i think we are recognizing potentially the performance of dizziness that we were taking on before or the other things that we were doing. That were unnecessary. That may be. When i when i say there aren't necessarily there are sort of performances of productivity burn the majority of pump technology. That moment does distract test scott to our attention. We think about the ethics of technology implications of technology. I think a lot in informational terms. But if you look at what they're really competing for attention this is back. This is spark vis is spark from your friends at cbc radio. I'm nora young and today we're talking about attention how it works and what affects our ability to maintain it right now. My guest is sarah. She's associate professor of media. Theory at the ic cit faculty of information at the university of toronto and director of the maclean center for culture and technology throughout the pandemic there've been lots of tech solutions for knob able to do things the way we normally would. Are there any others that stand out to you right now. One thing that showed up in my feet right away was My ten year old daughter plays competitive soccer and as soon as everything was closed in the city. All the sudden. This smart soccer ball appeared in my facebook. Feed some tagline like help. Your child improved their soccer skills. No mention of kovic but just all of a sudden. It's like smart ball and i thought it was similar to other experiences. We were having which were the feeling of when you come out of this. Is everyone going to be behind. And i was thinking like now. There's even the sense that our children are going to be somehow behind whether it's sports or their education or their music. Whatever it is you. People have signed up their children. For and i thought wow this is like nothing is allowed to pause. There's real fear of people being left behind and then technological solutions to keep everybody up to pay so when we're out of this were all maybe even better than we were. Maybe even you know more healthy more athletic competitor bakers. How do you think all of this is influencing how much attention we give our jobs and how we think about our jobs overall. I think it's proving for some people that's all they have right now. We're not doing other things with people seem like we're more work-obsessed than we ever were before. And that might also. Because it's the only thing you're doing. I think it's given us an opportunity to rethink our work. Lives and our work days workweek and what worked means for others and how people's work lives are actually tied up in each other's work. Lives like when you think about being at home all day your door bells ringing constantly and it's not just delivery. Its workers coming to your door in their job is to keep your job afloat and your day afloat and so i think this is an opportunity to highlight that sorta inter connected labor and interconnected work. That makes everything go around. It's also been an opportunity to think about the possibilities of a shorter workday or a shorter workweek because it is interesting. How many people speak about this new expanse of time or having more time. We're feeling bored in any way and i think it is an opportunity to cut out some of those things that were filling up the days in unnecessary ways and wouldn't that be nice to return to her. Come out of this. With a sense of shortened shorten workweek and proper pay for all of these workers that make the world go round and that this is an opportunity to reflect on that as you pointed out. Many people are continuing to go out to work in sometimes very stressful situations. They're likely feeling like their lives are busier than ever. What would you like those with more time to do with that. Extra time were to think about how to direct their attention more. I think one of the things that happened with it. It is the only people you saw and the only people you that were in your midst were basically delivery drivers neighbors also in this expensive timing world contracted to the smaller space. But i do think it highlighted for everybody to like maybe a diminishing networks of support in how we live our lives. You were restricted from being able to care for others in ways. That felt right. Everything was click. Send money by this by that. But that was also the technologies available ones facilitated this mode and i also thought that was fairly interesting. That was on hand what we had around us seem to be so perfectly orchestrated what we already had all these apps. We already had all these things around us. Sort of like covert happen. And everything could be organized from your cell phone. And i found that actually to be knocking the most comforting thought or not the most comforting realization Because there's that level but there's also as you say the level at which another that's our world have become very small right that you're where i direct. My attention is my very small world of like the two squirrels in the backyard. And my neighbors who actually see in person and the the postal worker who brings me my mail and brings me Those kinds of things. So it another level i feel like my attention has become very small because my world is much smaller. Yeah i totally agree. So the time is expensive but then our attention seems to be focused on the smaller world as you're saying and then you also notice the rhythms of your neighborhood in a different way. And you start recognizing before cova de would have a rhythm to your debut for the same people might pass you all the time and you would probably never notice. I know when certain taking their walk. And there's a you know people's schedules and maybe people are still keeping a schedule. But it's a new one with these are all to me really super interesting ways of thinking about altered rhythms and altered potential for connection and what we see what we noticed what falls out like in the first couple of weeks. All you noticed were frontline workers on our streets and it's interesting because it's not like they weren't they were there all along it's just like everything else fell away and suddenly they were the only ones out. These are moments where our attention can shift where he can notice this sort of otherwise invisible labor. And so that's why. I was thinking of these opportunities to rethink how we work in wavered. Live together sir. Thanks so much for your insights on this. Your look sarah. Sharma is associate professor of media theory at the ic cit faculty information at the university of toronto and she's director of the maclean center for culture and technology. You've been listening to spark the show is made by michelle breezy alsi sarokin osama wego. Hannah's king kosher and me nor young. And by thomas hills hema batavia and sarah sharma and from spark archives ruhanga tila klaudia rhoda james williams and linda stone. Both far on your favorite podcast app and you can is on facebook and twitter spark cbc. I'm nora young talked. You see for more. Cbc podcasts go to cbc dot ca slash podcasts.

cbc thomas hills magin twitter linda stone thomas hills nora young maclean center for culture and Herbert simon alvin toffler filippo sir american magazine Marshall mcluhan university of warwick bertram turing institute university of work wolf hall nora
Progress Through Imperfection, with Futurist Rebecca Costa

The Action Catalyst

24:23 min | 2 weeks ago

Progress Through Imperfection, with Futurist Rebecca Costa

"Southwestern family of companies welcomes you to the action catalyst each week our diversely and amazingly accomplished guests share their insights. And inspirations to help us ignite our own. so let's invest attention together to breathe to reflect and refocus and decisively. Defeat that voice. We call mr mediocrity. Then let's enjoy moving forward to make a positive difference in our world driven by purpose and guided by principles. Southwestern family of companies has inspired people to achieve their goals since eighteen. Fifty five based in nashville. Our family of companies continues to expand rapidly to include members across a wide range of industries that offer products and services to customers around the world. We take great pride in. Positively impacting the communities that we serve on this episode of the action catalyst. We catch up. With rebecca costa a former silicon valley executive socio biologist and futures whose career spans four decades of working with some of the biggest and most groundbreaking names in tech after serving as the founder and ceo of one of the largest technology marketing firms. In california cost a release. The international bestseller. The watchman's rattle. She is consistently ranked as one of the top public speakers in the united states and abroad and brings an evolutionary biologist perspective to the subject of adaptation and adaptive strategies for the twenty first century listeners. To the action catalyst. This is dan moore. And i am personally very excited that we have rebecca kosta with us today. Rebecca is many things in one human. She is a sociologist. She is a psychologist she is an economist is not nor she thinks about the future with their feet firmly grounded in the president's about how we can adapt and adjust has some amazing concepts. Who help to discuss today. Particularly impressive to me. The whole notion of being predappio as opposed to adaptive so beca. Welcome to the action catalysts. Well thank you for having me. I'd love it if you could maybe take a couple minutes and share some of the most significant pivots in your career starting out in california how you ended up working as an entrepreneur and then how you developed this amazing interest in the future so much so that people call you futures of the likes of some amazing deco. Alvin toffler malcolm gladwin. So many other amazing people. It's a good question. Because i don't think anyone starts out saying. I think i wouldn't be a futuristic. My career furger. It's not exactly something you get a degree for. And i think largely my career is like a lot of people in my position where of a series of events came together so The first significant event was When i was a undergraduate. I happen to be given a book called Socio biology the new synthesis by edward a wilson. He was a young upstart at harvard university at that time. And who knew that he was going to become known as the greatest naturalist in the world but for some reason. That book really caught my attention. So i immediately petitioned the university For a degree in sociology and they said socio wet never heard of it in those dates. You couldn't have hybrid degrees like you can now. and so. They gave me a degree in sociology and biology and called in the day. When i was done with that it was interesting because the hero annetta degree in sociology in biology. And it wasn't quite sure what that equipped me to do as a job. So i've returned home like a lot of students. Do mike parents happen to buy a house in what was becoming silicon valley at that time. They were just a lot of fruit orchards and they were some little upstarts like intel in national. Send each doctor folks like that that works beginning to change the world as we knew it at that time. Nobody had degrees in electronics in really understood technology. Now that well so they they would really hire anybody. Neighbor trade you and so I wound up getting a job with a smaller company that developed the i can't cam systems and then from there you know the technology bit me. But interestingly enough and socio biology studies the evolutionary history of human beings and what that foretells about our behaviors in the present and in in the future and technology was moving at such a rapid pace that there was a disconnect between what we were as human be you know this biological spacesuit when its capabilities really are and how it's programmed operate and the pace at which technology was moving and i was right in the middle of that and so for many years i kept journals many many journals. I had many influencers people that i work with like st john's larry ellison i worked one level below the greatest. Ceo it at that time. Jack welsh general electric. I had worked for people that were great visionaries and very courageous pioneers for their time. And that really infected me with a zest for what was comey. What's going to be the next big disruptor. You know what's going to change our and is going to change it for the better or the worse and that has just been a theme throughout my whole life spent tastic and your openness to these inputs is just remarkable. You know all great thinker. Some shall wind synthesizing different disciplines. Right whether it was my background of growing up in japan and then experiencing vietnam wars through my father's worked or it was ed wilson's perspectives. That we are biologically largely biologic leaguer than even as as we structure societies or even our individual decisions have a biological component to it and then being stressed in the middle of this man machine now which is gradually curry. So unbeknownst to me. I kind of went from you. Know the jungles of laos in vietnam in in the the incredible creativity in downtown tokyo japan to studying biology to suddenly being thrown winless. Silicon valley. it for me gave me such a passion for knowledge. It's your experience. It's your perspective your knowledge that really creates. What is what. I call a lifelong learner. And for me you know i. This is a funny story was invited to a cocktail party and a man was talking about septic tanks in these new environmentally friendly septic tapes and i was very interested in his concept and eventually of course like my partner was there with tapped me on the shoulder and said you. You have to socialize. It's a cocktail artie. You're in the quarter talking about sack tanks. That's not appropriate. I just so interesting. What you know his concept is you know. But i am the lifelong learner. I'm a. I'm a junkie for anything new. I think it's it's fantastic. I wish she could share a little bit about what was behind the watchman's rattle amazing book and all i've done is done some previewing of it very much looking forward to reading the entire book and what has changed in how you view things since that was published. I guess about fourteen or so years ago. Well that's what got me. The title futurist and i need to tell people. Don't talk to dead people. And i don't read tarot cards You know there are no facts about the future only probabilities. and so i rely strictly on trends and statistical analysis basically predictive analytics to make forecasts of what what's what are the most likely vents to occur. You mentioned might work the watchman's rattle. I had been keeping journals. Incessant journals about this bifurcation that was occurring between what humans were designed to do and how we were designed to function. And we're technology's taking us. And i could see this acceleration in data in day to day complexity just the degree to which we knew where our water was coming from or that we could fill lateral taxes you know it were layers layers of complexity that were just a byproduct this technological revolution and i've been keeping journals for really long term so i had the benefit of starting a company on my own in silicon valley and once line was able to sell that i retired to the hills of big sur. Just to get away from everything and one day while it was moving things. I've found boxes and boxes. These journals and i sat down. Just you know on the ground and started reading them and i said there is something year. There's a smell to it and that's where the book kane from. When i looked at everything. I realized that there is a pattern that occurs in societies. What happens is when societies. I start out like the mayan civilization for example. There is a coexistence of unproven believes an empirical facts. And you could tell the difference between what is an empirical fact and what is just a belief so using the my hands as an example. They might have practiced fetishism to ring on the rain so that the matab abundant crops but at the same time they were practising water conservation. They were building underground cisterns to store their food. They were very mindful they they actually were phenomenal. Hydraulic engineers thing. We're building dams and reservoirs in everything. That were unprecedented for their time. But what happens is as social complexity starts to accelerate in we a faster and faster ray. This phenomenon occurs where the person on the street can no longer tell the difference between what is a proven empirical fact and what is untrue. We believe things are too complex to be able to make that discernment and then the third stage. That occurs is unproven. Beliefs begin to filter in shape public policy and once that third stage is reached all it takes his some cataclysmic event and the entire society collapses very quickly as in the mayan society. So you see this with the mayans. in that. as the drought conditions got worse and worse. They abandoned building reservoirs. No more underground cisterns. No more water crop rotation. They started escalating. The sacrifice of human beings originally they were only sacrificing captured prisoners from other tribes. Then they moved onto the old in the infer then they moved onto new boards in order to bring the rain. They exclusively relied on an crew and beliefs. And you can see. That shift actually occur in the roman empire egyptian empire. The ming empire has falls this. Patter so what i did. Fifteen years ago was saying. Well we are we. I documented every source material. That i used because this was a controversial theory this relationship between complexity and collapse and never been made before and it was a very controversial theory and believe me. I got a lot of pushback on it and i think it's important for our listeners. To note you wrote this about fifteen years ago without revealing your age. I'm going to say let's say the term mid-century at that point so you're not exactly an overnight success as author but that's kind of one of the whole lessons he rebecca that will help people will. We'll take from this. It's so easy to talk to somebody. That is a world changer. World impact as you are into imagine that things just naturally unfolded for that person that had just one day. They had this stroke of lockin. Good things happen. You know better than that. You know different than that. So i wonder if you could share some insights about maybe a time when you hit a career brick wall but what if some observations in terms of personal life management that you could share. That could help our listeners. Well i have had many of those situations. They're a millions of reasons to give up. You know. I may sound like a very confident person. When i discovered about myself is that. I'm not particularly confident. I'm not confident in my ideas. Many times i. I'm at a speaking engagement. And i might be speaking to five thousand people who feed a lot of money to hear from me and just before i you know peaked. You the pregnancy nancy. Everyone taking their seats. And i think what could i possibly tell them right. They would equal the value in this. These are really people. But here's the thing. I don't care how. I feel about things i i know that particular new and i were from generation. Where you're supposed to pay attention to your feelings. Your feelings aren't always going to guide you in the right direction. You prefrontal cortex. Which is the logic part of your. Bree is it. Better judge of let you should It really is. It's going to look back and say you know it's probably good that you don't go out on stage and saying you know i really don't have anything to tell all of you that would be of any value and then just turn into a little scared mass. That's probably not a good idea. Probably not write. A better idea is big. Actually know your background. They've read your material. They looked at your speeches. They they understand your content. Now go give them something they haven't heard from you yet. Go given everything you have leave it all on the stage now. This is the interesting thing. I may seem like i'm very extroverted when i'm on the stage then also use it how i feel how i feel when i'm done giving a presentation is i am absolutely exhausted and went on done. I can't wait to go to my hotel room for myself. A hot bath and be alone. I am a forced extrovert because being an introvert wasn't willing to get me where i needed to get so again. It's not like seal. I'm an introvert. But in order to get to where. I wanna go. I have to develop extrovert skills. I have to master those. So then i can communicate with the public and i could get the these ideas in this information out there. So while your feelings you have to have respect for the you of to be honest intellectually honest about who you are and how you feel about things. I don't think you can let that died your decisions. So self-awareness is a huge part of this knowing yourself and knowing that you can shift gears into different mode when it's called for his funny about seven or eight years ago. I read the book by susan. Cain called quiet. The subtitle of the book is the power of introverts in a world. That cannot stop talking. And i was reading the book and in our family room and i sat both upright and announced my wife. I'm an introvert right here. Now i get it and isn't it interesting that you're an introvert and i'm an introvert. And yet we had be public venue because we now know that the thoughts that we're having the information we have the talents we have our meant to be shared. Amen to that that's fascinating. I think it's great now when it come back to something you said a few moments ago that you you realize and you embrace the fact. You're a lifelong learner. What is it that causes you to keep growing. What causes you to not flatten now to become complacent i don't know like i think it just might be that. It's so exciting. Everything that's happening to us in life is just exciting and for the most part has cheffins before i mean even the corona virus you know when i started to get reports from people that i knew in china you know and they were sending the lab reports and so on and so forth. I couldn't get enough of it. And i was sounding the alarm very very early in february or march and saying this is this is not something that this virus is behaving the way viruses behave in the natural world. There's something very specific and special about this virus and so it doesn't really matter to me whether it's septic tanks that are more environmentally friendly. Or it's a new virus that's coming out or it's Mit developing a device. That will allow people who can't communicate to communicate because you say a word in your head before you speak it. It's called some localization and it can vocalise that were. I've actually said that will be the end of all marriages now. Now that we won't allies what you're thinking it's all over but you know i have so many things happening all over the world and to be in a position where people are sending me material on a constant basis twenty four seven from all over the world and to be able to consult with the world's largest corporations and have visibility into their research and development departments where it's happening is just such a privilege you spoke about the brick walls in your own life. I was moved by something in a recent presentation. You did where you spoke about types of failure quoting games hunt the seven types of failure and the theme that you pulled out of that is fail. Early fail often but in our society. There's not a lot of glorification of the notion of failing it is Looked upon us somehow falling short. Not getting things right when i have failed It's been very hard for me to move forward. There's a harshness in me. Maybe that marchioness propels me not to fail. As often as i would if i were okay about it a not okay. Now when i have to forgive myself. I have to forgive myself or i never gonna get past that and in by the way i am so in for baked i insist on family at the same the at least twice just to make sure the first time was a failure. That's the kind of scientists. I i'm going. Well you know there were ladder. Variables there that not necessarily have been a failure and then the second time i feel. I got the right thing. So i had learned to not only forgive myself the first time i fail but to give myself permission to try it again. Just make sure so so there you have it. I have failed in things in my personal life. I field at projects that i had. I have had ideas. That i thought would reach this level and in-cabin far short. I'd had seems of disappointments but there is something that internal optimist in me. That says that's okay because it's all getting rabe up. There's a man in the back of my head or women. It's rolling this old together and sung how that is making me a better human and a better contributor to society. There's a lot of wisdom which she just shared their rebecca. I personally am encouraged by that and particularly the whole idea of self forgiveness self-awareness. Failing is okay. There's actually progress through imperfection that people often no recognize. And i think that's remarkable. I've become a better human. Be because of my failures. And i will tell you that like biggest failures came much later in life. When i was younger i was kind of you know. Blame me when people would have failures. I'd say well they should have seen this in this mess. And then they made this decision and i. We didn't flip the responsibility on the person largely. I thought fan was earned. Because i'm heading hansel. But once i had failure i realized well. That's too harsh. Yeah and now. He's really important for people who are struggling right now. They didn't earn the good shutdown. You didn't cause that to happen. You may have made some decisions along the way that unfortunately put you on the bad side. That shutdown right the negative side the failure side of it. But you didn't cause that in it's really important to embrace that because otherwise it's too harsh. Very harsh one can be caught up in it but not the cause of. that's right. Very very very powerful unforced after to wrap this up but your whole notion about being predappio as opposed to being adapted is based upon the fact that we have more information that we've ever had before we had better prediction tools. They come to this information much more rapidly. What about individuals not so much companies or societies. What do you think individual people can do. So that we as people are more predappio and not just reactive and adapters where we have to remember from a biological standpoint. This space is only designed to respond to whatever's in front of us so it my thorough a snake in front of you you either flee re want to kill the snake right if i talked to you about something. That's going to happen later this afternoon. That's threatening or or worrisome. You have some biological reaction. You know your heart me pitter-patter little bit faster but not much faster if it's tomorrow maybe no biological change but if things that her months out years now pretty much you don't have any biological reaction your body isn't flooded with chemicals. To take action this is the great prob because by the time you know that something needs to change right by the time you hear the information. You're too late today. The train is already left the station in your non on you have to look what's comey and start to prepare yourself now and it's a big challenge. Is you talked to twenty five year old about saving for retirement their eyes gloss over you. Don't try to sell life insurance to nineteen year olds. Even though they should buy life insurance can really cheap. This is the problem the fundamental biological problem that we have and so for most of the time. When i'm talking to people say well. What do you manage and we'll wait about your job. Do you think your job will be there next year. Five years ten years from now twenty years from now how will it change. will it even exist. Which skills do you suppose you need right. This is the kind of thing that you have to begin thinking about now. We're you live. Relatives declined to cheat. We're should you be living. Are you going to wait until there's no water in the earth is burning before you move or do you move now you know you really want to start thinking about these things far in the future and then make them answerable today. Even if you're just taking a small actually like i'm gonna research places that climatologist think will be okay in terms of available water. You know what their best lawns predict or ongoing to You know i mean whatever it is. I'm going to start developed taking online classes. Because i think robotics is gonna be a big fielding the no. I don't know anything about robotics. I'm going to start a class today. do something. Even though it's going to be small. Take some baby steps now because this is really critical that you cannot wait. And then think you're gonna flip the switch flipping. The switch never worked for human beings and it doesn't work now now particularly with the the race between complexity going up in time going down these speak about so much. Or this is so chock full of good stuff here rebecca. I have really enjoyed this conversation. It's it's just been a wonderful day. Well i'm so glad to hear that on our listeners. Appreciate it i do personally as well. Let's keep growing. Let's keep contributing and thank you. So so much for being on the action catalysts. Thank you and thank you for the good work. you're doing. If you enjoy this podcast please make sure to subscribe to stay updated on everything that the action catalysts is up to make sure to follow us on facebook and instagram at action catalyst podcast and twitter at catalysts underscore action. Thanks for listening.

rebecca costa rebecca kosta malcolm gladwin Jack welsh comey dan moore Alvin toffler mayan society vietnam ed wilson california japan larry ellison silicon valley harvard university nashville st john Rebecca laos Silicon valley
Episode 55: Jim Thompson and Video Coaching with Grace

Flipboard EDU Podcast

30:22 min | Last month

Episode 55: Jim Thompson and Video Coaching with Grace

"The views thoughts and opinions expressed during this or any broadcasts belong solely to our guests for our hosts. Speech broadcasts do not represent reflect use of their employers sponsors or affiliated organizations. Welcome to the flip board. Edu podcast your host. William geoffrey where we collaborate communicate and educate with the greatest educators in the world on clipboard. Let's start the show. Welcome back the fam- this is your favorite coast coach. Jeffrey and according to a recent study teachers have used videos for their own professional development. This past year. What doesn't prove it look like what teachers are over nineteen. This is a question that mrs jim thompson has been vigorously researching for the last twelve us. Jim has had more than thirty years experience as an educator with and various administrative and teaching roles as he is taught at the high school level middle school level elementary as well as undergraduate and graduate level students and this episode we discussed how video is way for tvs to expand their knowledge and create connections. We also discussed wise important for educators. Who are interested in using videos as part of their teacher practice to understand the benefits thousands associated with this warm up professional development last we discussed importance of ascending grades and the second round of covert nineteen. So like we always do about this time. Let's collaborate communicate and educate what the best educators in the world. Right here on flip. Boy podcast welcome back clipboard. Famish is your favorite coast coast. Jeffrey and i have another amazing guests with me tonight. Mr jim thompson. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much william. I really appreciate your invitation. Your affirmation of helping children and your hospitality and on the sunday evening. Thank you so much man. I really appreciate you being here. As i said off camera. I listened to the audience. A little bit about your grandpa. My blessing is our grandson james. Joseph in he is indeed our blessing. I've spent my entire life in education. i brag myself. I pride myself in. Having a deep background in is a teacher. i was a high school in junior high school off. Social studies teacher then. I became a middle school social studies in reading teacher and then a self contained elementary teacher. Wonderful journeys learn so much about children had some wonderful mentors than i was in elementary principal for twenty years outside rochester new york and i was blessed with a great staff wonderful children in ninety three because i had a lot of people working hard making me look good. I was named new york state. Elementary principal the air and then the following year again. Because people working hard to make me look good. I was the national distinguished principal from new york state. I just love being a principal in the last three letters. pal al. Because i think that's what we are the children. I taught fifteen years of college. Mostly teaching people how to be administrators and teachers and for the last twelve years. I've been working in the area of video. Instructional coaching in Zero on this question. What does improvement look like partnering with teachers. Such a a wide expanse. And i'll be seventy two years old a month or so and i'm still going strong. I'll still be coaching of teachers. And mentoring administers this. Your ended his my love. So thank you for the question. No problem hey. We really need all of that. I think like i told you before. I think i may have read your book. Let's tell our audience the title of the book that you were thanks so much. It's called a quick guide to video coaching. It is an amazon it. It is co-authored with my colleague. Dr casey zork. Who is the superintendent of hilton central schools. Outside of rochester were thrilled. Go on amazon. A quick guide video coaching. It is the highest rated book on alabama's on on video poaching and we're thrilled with that. Any kind of tells our store it can tell us our story inviting teachers to reflect with video reflect on their practice video and then partner at be forced to be with a partner with a coach in a confidential non available to journey Excellent excellent. I totally believe in all of that. So you wrote an article that caught my attention is why invite you on the show and the todd article was grace and support instructional coaching. And i wanna ask wise that important right now. That's i appreciate the invitation insurance this morning. We sang amazing. Grace had a baptism. And i think because of the amazing grace of our educators in every school across the united states that after march sixteenth twenty twenty not only did we survive but after a feeling of despair and disjointed nece we started renewing our stuff that we started thriving with no easy adjourn officiant fry having inheritance. Smith have a book called rebound by core. When i strongly recommended and they start out saying this traumatic events can take a heavy whole toll on our psychological lives. We recognize and respond to the one time events that devastate our lives of fire in injury. The death of a loved one of violent attacks but less recognizable even to oneself is the cost of relentless stress. The pandemic has created chronic long-term stress. Our personal and professional lives in. It's still going out. The delta variant is comeback in. There are no big scenes yet for elementary age students. There are in many school districts across the country are battles battles going on whether to wear mask or not. I think we need to take gym nights while i. He's an idol. Jim night any said first off. Most importantly i think people need to get through this time. We need to extend grace to each other and that includes ourselves and i think this is what we need to take a pause for in in in extent grace to ourselves into each other. I now more than ever. I think we try to do that. Every school year. I was mentioned principal for twenty years. And you try to do that every year but now more especially yes paying attention to that. Specifically amar superintendent that was for convocation so in texas we get all of the teachers and school staff and everybody together and they have this thing called convocation for those of you who are listening who may not know what that is we they all come together and the superintendent gives his state of the union or state of schools speech and so our team this year was grace and he invited an elvis impersonator. And we saw amazing grace. So as you would say we did elvis. Thou- believe it or not. Yeah yeah your article really called What can what can administer. It is due to facilitate a culture where teachers feel comfortable in growing their skills. Great question i think take some time with their selves with their staff to listen to say how are you doing. How is your family doing. How can i help you in any way possible to help kids in. I don't wanna be flipping in this next remark wayne but i really believe that it connects with make. I love the movie jerry. Maguire in jerry. Maguire says helped me help. You help me help you. And i think administrators. The principal came from the word principal teacher. And i i think in. That role of a teacher were partnership. Now more than ever an- an- really asking staff asking children asking parents of various constituencies. How're you doing in listening. And how can i really help you. And i think being a lot more always tried to do this principle. I think you do this as an assistant principal but being really intentional about it this year. There's a navy seal. Slogan william slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. I think we need to start off slow and small extending grace each checking each other. How're doing how can we start moving on with the regular home the other stuff. Yeah we gotta get there but we cheer especially we need to do that and some places it is more important for students to get back to normal than it is for people to extend grace and so some people are rushing to get back to normal. How do you feel about getting back. To normal before we apply. I don't think it's gonna work. I think it's gonna work there. There's a reinhold neighbour in bond hoffer talked about cheap grace. Santa monica theological this. But we can't have chief grace. I think we've got. We've gotta listen to each other. This is not going to be easy. Snack gonna be linear different school by school region by region. But i before anything we're human beings we really wanna extend that humanity with each other. I would 'cause we're in the people business you're here for children. Were here for children. And i think how do we help. Children express their voice. How do we help. Children build their agency with traumatic events. Continuing guana lives the elementary kids. Nobody's vaccinated. They're the they just take a look at the news today in. It is unsaddling on a good day. So i think this alvin toffler wrote a book called future shock many years ago william and he said that the family is a giant shock. Absorber by you agree with this. I think school is a family. School is a family in the shacks that were helping to absorb are unlike any we've ever seen in our lifetime but that doesn't mean we shy away from them but we partner together we join in grace to each other so we can work these out to the best that we can for each other in mostly for children. Exactly i agree with that. So how can teachers use video to support a culture of growth. I loved question when i love. The question gymnasts got five. Simple truth william and the first one is. We don't know what it looks like when we do what we do. We don't know what it looks like. We just stone in. I'm going to suggest that this is real easy. Well this is really need to do is take this out. Take your phone out in video. Eight minutes of yourself video eight minutes. You don't have to show it to anybody. You don't have what's called a selfie. Sparta var coaching one hundred. And you just look at it and you reflect on it. And i'll bet you find at least one goal that you'd like to work on. That would make an impact with kids. Now if you don't anymore other than you're trying to work on a fine. But i encourage you to work with a trusted pow league or maybe a coach and you say hey. I've looked at a video myself. And here's a goal that i wanna work on. Can you help me. Are there strategies mindsets that what helped me get there in then. Have this conversation. Well right now. I think it's maybe a five out of ten. And what would it look like. If we're a ten. And most importantly william would go. What what the students be doing different way if it were a ten you don't need to bring in people from beka. Kansas is pd. You can do this right there. I have a favorite term owner coaching workshops. The answer is in the room. Yes in room which allow people time and opportunity to do that. My right yes. You are hard to say right. Yeah i lived at. So i think old principle of mind stow your quote because he used to say that all the time they exactly what you just said. So how would we introduce this to a staff using videos to improve teaching and learning during a pandemic when we're supposed to be extending grace improvement that has to happen. How do we go about role. Taylor william i think we've all most people have already done it. Is i talk about in the article. I think if there is some silver linings to what what has happened in the last Fourteen fifteen months with distance-learning online. Many teachers have already started using video. Maybe they've never used it before but dove aside now they've got an zoom and flip grid and this and that in paradox or whatever and off sudden wow i've gotta make videos. I've gotta show videos. I've gotta take this idea of a video in transfer it to my instruction and that alone behold and i'm just gonna speak zoom. 'cause i don't know a lot of these other ones but zoom is a an exemplar you can easily record yourself on zoom. You don't have to share with anybody. i know. A lot of our coaches just've record themselves. Zoom use it for reflection sometimes shared it with somebody else. I think over the last fourteen fifteen months. Many people already started would video They're not scared about it so they're not scared. So i think the skids are greased. I am i definition of luck. William is when preparation meets opportunity. I think were there now for furthering video reflection to impact teaching. What do you think. I totally agree with you. May i think that's it. I i know of place of places without giving any names of these places where this is starting to become new and teachers. How would you just that. The advanced teacher who's been teaching for thirty years and although they do a lot of stuff right certain things that they can do better. And how do you get that person to incorporate video into their classroom. This great question. There's not an easy answer. One thing. I wouldn't do is hey john. I've been teaching twenty eight years. I video coach. Wouldn't you just love to do a video. How how does that sound. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that. I'd just wouldn't do that. i think. We need to establish relationships with people. I would maybe start with some folks that i knew a little bit. And maybe a start off with buying a cup of coffee or an adult beverage and and you start looking at say. Then they're going to say okay about me. A barrier bombings coffee. What do i do. You know what are you all. And they're laughing at you as i tell you. What would you be willing. Would you be willing to take out your phone in just video. Eight minutes just am only eight minutes of any instruction and you don't show the anybody you don't show it to anybody all you do is look at it and when you look at it. Can you identify a goal. You'd like to work on and that's all now if you come back and share that. What their goal with me and maybe wanna talk a little bit. I'll buy another cup of coffee. If you're don't god love god love you have. But i said and i think it's gotta be easy and they might say i don't wanna do it now but maybe a couple months later you buy him another cup of coffee in the one. I'll do one eight minutes. We call the eight minute change. We'll go one. That's a and and people start seen the power of video reflection versus the professional development. They've had which is really never gets to the coaching pieces. Just the latte up theory in all of a sudden they say. This is pretty powerful. This can really help me just a quick story. This while i'm interested in video coaching. I worked in a school in houston texas. That was considered by the houston chronicle a dropout factory. We were on the front page of the houston chronicle label dropout factory and the teachers and the school. We had a new principal who had came in and our. I think we had thirty five percent graduation rate and but there was a teacher there who his name was dave wakefield and dave wakefield would video his classes k and then dave said as the school as we improved and dave led that charge of just videoing getting teacher pregnant better now. He's the. ceo of sydney. He started said me from there. Yes so day. I work with david. I i saw. how kids when. Kids would brag about his teaching when they would come to mark class and i couldn't teach and he was just one of the many great faculty there who could really could teach kids and of course we ended up getting really good at the high school and two years later. We had eighty nine percent graduation rate in a very low socioeconomic neighborhood but yeah those transformations and i'm a believer in video. Because i saw at work yes yes yes bravo bravo stu my story to go with the. I love it i. It's right. it is transformational hi. It's responding to the question. What does improvement look like. I'll tell you what it doesn't look like. I wrote an article for this think tank in minnesota their education great people and i said what i was a principal. For twenty years i was the new york state. Elementary principal the year and the national distinguished principal from new york. I'm meant i continue to mentor. Lotta principles. I taught principles at the graduate level and at adleman and i revere the principal ship. But you go to. John hattie's research and i'm gonna tell you three things that i think is something ain't right. I love john. Handy i love. That's my do. And here's three things that i i. What what we're what we're doing right now to respond to. What does it look like an reach. When i say something right number one. Let's bring in a high price speaker at the beginning of the year. Let's bring in as speaker at the beginning. Your maybe seven about eleven thousand dollars. We're gonna fly men from maui or her from maui and outta that you spend a lot of goal to hannity on his learning drivers. Where and hattie's research. Is there a br where you bring in a high price speaker to being here with no foul up. A driver of learning number two and this is going to hurt because the principal traditional principally of evaluation where in had he's model does traditional principal evaluation impact learning. It doesn't and last but not least and this has been going on for the last thirty. Forty fifty years is unfortunately professional development activity initiative followed by professional development activity initiative fouled by another one with no foul coaching. No foul up jason. Let's do this every year. let's cut and paste every year. And that's why i think i don't have a complete answer for. How do you respond to the question. What isn't look like. But i know the coaching instructional coaching trained instructional coaching with support in a clearly established role. Partnering with teachers can be can be transformational. You use the word. Transformation on entities highly effective and that is one of the pet peeves. Why certainty does don't trusted initiatives that we bring in with video especially those experienced. Teachers is because they seen it. Come and come every new thing they came along and there's no follow up behind it so that would be one. The reasons why video is not taken off some places. I think they know that this is a journey. This isn't just a super day. i'm an avid. So you got to hang in there with mrs. I've been doing this for about twelve years. And usually i'm usually i work with districts on an average of four or five years because we it takes time to go from the beginning through the culture to develop trust and for people to see the power of this and then they say okay. Jim wanna take this over on our south now now we got rolling and so it's not just this one time event because we've had way too many of those and people do frustrated and they don't impact learning. That's very deep. Appreciate you saying that. I'm definitely going to share this with my superintendent because this is a very passionate thing For him and our school district is incorporating video. Now are really. Appreciate your your insight. Where can i listen to find you on social ammon twitter. That's where i am. School guy s. c. h. o. l. g. wise school at school guy on twitter. And i if you wanna know about me that's probably the mindset while my passion where i am with helping teachers help kids. I think that's the best place On facebook Gym time since you gotta find the guy who was twenty sixteen. I ran my one and only half marathon. You'll see me there. I'll pick your grandson but twitter is big i. I really believe in twitter. I think you're there are so many fabulous communities down there in great sharing. It's how we met ma'am yes exactly how we met. Yeah that's exactly how we've met. The theme for this. Podcast is collaborate communicate and educate with the best educators in the world. And i was lucky to find you sir. I wouldn't i would would've never found you for one for i. The pleasure is mine and end. This powerful we talking to sidney kate dr zorka casey Or we get a workshop for sydney in may and and with that. I think they're going to invite us back in december again in. We're usually doing two or three workshops like that a year fall. I'm going to be working with coaching at least sixty teachers hilton. Central school in new york state. In casey zora goals are things grant twitter. Check those out. Obviously jim night is a huge inspiration in england in so far as books. I'm doug him off is coming out with his teach like a champion three point zero the number. I'm looking real forward to andy. Hargreaves has got a book. Write out not on engagement. I think if you're going to start. Coaching was something personal. Doesn't have to be with if you're going to start with coaching piece here. I believe it's engagement. The jim knight has really helped me out looking because prior to about four or five years. Ago william if he asked me what engaged him was i. It's just class romance. that's it while. Wait a minute. I need to open my horizons and night talks about. There's behavior on engagement. There's cognitive engagement. And then there's social emotional engagement. And that's what talking about this piece of grace this piece of grace. Yana about cognitive and behavior yet. But boy i i've gotta i've give students voice. I gotta listen to our kids this year. how are you doing. How can we help you in in every couple of maybe at least once a week. We're going to stop the stop. The presses here folks. We're gonna stop the presses every week we're gonna ask. I'm gonna ask you as your teacher in your advocate. How're you doing. And how am i doing. how am i doing. And we're gonna listen to each other because we want. We should do this but these are tough times and we wanna be together with this phone in the same direction. What do you think when man. I love that. That is exactly what we need reflecting now as. You're talking as a leader. Because i need to do better at that to go in and check on my teachers just simply. I need to do a daily because it's stressful is stress. When i'm just thinking about the stuff that they are doing our students have been out for about seventeen mud. We have students who have their students at my high school. Who are juniors who have never stepped foot on campus and the fact that we have a pretty decent amount of students in poverty and those other factors we have teachers who have loved ones who was sick and with the mask and no mask and situations. Yeah i really as a leader needs to pay more attention to the the smooth things at that you said. Yeah i'm just self reflected. I can tell i can tell you have a good heart. I can tell you a good heart. I really do fairly though you know what this point yet. You things pick things up and you've got their heart. You got a good heart. I hope we could talk again. Something almost definitely or were present with you some time you you got a good heart thank you anytime you want to come back on the show sir anything you wanna do you guys you. Ah welcome. bring your colleagues or we could have ten. People on at a time is great and we'll just broadcast it so thank you for coming. It's been my honor. It's been my honor. Thank you so much for your hospitality and your good heart. Are you have a good day. Thank you take good care. Thank you so much you too. Are you looking for a podcast about education flip board. Edu podcast is a great podcast that focuses on digital remote and future learning. We will explore how to use flip board in education and how it can enhance instruction. You'll hear from teachers. Students and experts are using this amazing tool in their classrooms. It's not just an educational resource but also a community of people who want to share ideas with one another. Hey arc community today sure your stories ask questions. Are you content for us to feature on the show you all everyone involved in this conversation so we all can learn together as a feature of education. This is your favorite codes code. Jeffrey and i look forward to become part of the clipboard. Clipboard click here now to follow off until may sound family so much. We's around out there. There's only one storytelling platform. That helps you keep calling and staying bombing inspired slipped lipoic curates the world's story so you can be bodywork life and choose from thousands of topics to personalized live against the best stories from best publishers. At experts deliver to you. Twenty four seven get started now and clipboards dot com. It's time for flip tips. Today's flip tip is brought to you. Bob my homegirl tear reporter and her blog on medium dot com and title your flip boy magazine cover is a front door of your flip. Board magazine is a way to your content to just like someone selling the home front door to occurs people coming inside of their house and look around you. Want compelling flip or magazine cover that will have people flipping your content. The cover is a focal point of your magazine and just like the first five minutes of good lesson and engaging flip board magazine cover is your hook you can read more about terry's article on her blog on medium dot com and flip also into our flip board. Edu podcast magazine. Thanks here fram. Thanks for sticking with me on this episode. I want to thank mr thompson for coming on our show and discussing video coaching with breaks. Do you have any insights. You want to share with us. You can leave us a voicemail. All over to the flip eating new podcast dot com. Click on the red market home. We're playing your thoughts on air. Don't use off the a shot out anti -gratulations or tell us how you use them. Flip board which are students or in your classroom or even into school. You can read more about this episode and other great educators on educators blog i'll flip dot com. I want to give it another huge shot outside ailing les lord and crystal vander boom the editorials on the flip. Educators blog remembrances gras clipboard. He knew magazine on clipboard. Dot com please subscribe and shits podcast with a colleague for educated. Podcast is available globally in everywhere. You listen to podcasts for free so until next time family.

william new york William geoffrey mrs jim thompson coast coast Mr jim thompson pal al dave wakefield Dr casey zork hilton central schools Jeffrey amar superintendent rochester Maguire guana elvis amazon Jim Taylor william jerry
Interventionen, die scheitern

Was jetzt?

11:14 min | Last month

Interventionen, die scheitern

"They had to common on an shooting. Couldn't hack to an annoying inflator fund us yet st- knowledge podcast fund site online assist mitchell. The september mina missed fabien chilean when he humorous mukhlis in china's correctly concepts in afghanistan ownership by you but infra zoot her own configured pondimin from belene house. Through fair hinden to estimate inauguration. I was minister high comas. Dale is to knock cotton on vitamin Everybody else heiser should mention as afghanistan's of zaid zantac stash on india's napa lindan for afghanistan onto weeks on twitter mitchell cliff. They're in qatar onto under indonesian diplomat. Marcus parcel debt side. Pretty bundestag yogesh breaking in taliban feud in cottam hamdi namely religious on this on at ulsan. Ministerial zave smitten. Taliban raden but mass weddings niche. I'm neubergring getting this land. Rheinland fights and shots act in up funday of lewd kosovan. The anglican total infamous filibuster cochet victim hips. Crafter is on. My southern burger is done that you about from fdic toffler autism angular municipal accident in mali riaan opponents president fun quite steinmeyer vietnamese mushtaq tiny men but a food christova julie. Valentine violent fights. May i mention home slaving common interests for this. Podcast is fun for in afghanistan. Conflict hot medium including up to that was on china of has begun on stomach initialized or i know under niche own visa glacier namely deaf as mentioned writer lead someone madonna intervention on into an on yom noyer nuts yawns who about tremendous my colleague that is particularly by that site. On uber's hannity's america hits mediums playing honolulu's. Yeah hallo most as my allah in-depth hooker exfoliating meter one. Guns could alert and assistant concept for them to. Here's please stay shots. Fund as these responsibility to protect air in golden aerostat. Natalie editions fan. What was blog on us. Must susan mentioned the need for. Let's them on this responsibility to protectorates. Even annoyance vehicle of conflict in rwanda was welcomed car. Voice start the item. Should tell on. Tyler's starters and if oh come not begun not on his art. Venice must have mentioned flattening. Gift done. newsouth internet's malecki minds of ethics. And answer from us. It's what is on. This was found and get an an internet. We were these principle. Thinks tursi with him for correctness. His tennis data. Taylor stop by in to one thousand. The ash laghouat in foca. Rest then vega sheet. Also money tangun Ivana pool accuracy. On the up to that vision i his fan photons and in burgers burgers shootin us in math above all duda minorities industry garden of insulin and lesson. Tanzi fast fanzine. Cossa born to nine and ninety and come afghanistan's with those ninety two thousand. I live in two thousand twelve molly. Three thousand rights and holidays intimates in all with emolument. We're going if know about with emolument. Dotty mentioned i should sin onto those if i was in disaster on the senators and neither lager fiducia foster economies come. Well is our niche murder. His mid mid doesn't mention in starting to onto shoots nun under unmovic hadn't done by. Td to keep us vision neath stone on on bonfires and you'll tiffy liffey in fun. Sunk marin fund someone's martin's sony infant john from between the regime and the perfect start lung gift spiel. Divorce on house predict communists in africa is apart with regimes to come. Common mid is baked honest. Garner's developer spiel in schools warranty. An alternate dimension is floating director in any get down on endorsing harrison dictator lukashenko hunter to link. What's mr she. Just keep feeling curtain on dis. Feel co-ordinates yawn. Billionth of fantasia for alice onto hotta interventions schiller. Doug david antietam cana on sandstone. Ya is a habit fable. Fierce guerrilla greats tyler. Allston was or. Does that message in indian five on david working thailand. I'm getting man. There's an elton in michigan black tat. Stick on the manhattan. I foxhole zionism. Fun poor newton zillion baker kaufman is on volume. My setting by an angered soga shied item on yet. That's an toyota gene. That's what i fear z. Snap foolish thousand dollar onions. Own sign then voted on dot com house. The rice thousand dollar from ten thousand dollars unveiled costume on his agam. Abso- sculpturing gonzaga at young's massnahmen. Fear come offense. Munin mentions this here. An order. Mitt couve annoyed. They'd fight custodian up. Enemies decides zia extreme by philadelphian viviana. Infants younes cockeyed aren't on for global all spartan under listed devait zone tides organisms yawn v. How all of seville convicting pondimin. Foregin vivas martin. Desperately angela macken in glue spot and in aushev teeters at hanham gabriel's zo. And let's niaz has to mir foggy slang here in berlin and we all would often and hop to configure on the meals. Push phuc akin merkley for him. Nansen of eden allegemeine. Some of syria can minister jens span. The food odometers into these are up for debate. Zoo among on. Hold of it and emily forested or this. I believe meadow boffon kaliyan yaacob zimin s light at his kazinda sauce. Bite site online. Hello yakup alvian. Yaakob ministers kashdan harbor is an art. Pundit fu vans is team in leafy smash by tsunamis from yet as martin is annoying global hub for pandemic an epidemic intelligence via collect alston heist. Hope is and come on ourselves. And dot and hop dagens hershey noncombatant somnolence fasel classes on the malls push although Invicta sound tortoise time genome art and suv view him bush adviser about that and demon m class chavez diesel two hundred so much view rupa vegans. Staten dot totten's who weta. Who that with the pavilion iras. Leslie fewer Before has agathe fun out from off tweet in front pondimin about the for panamian. Vision was to help mac emerged as china's i'ts panamian mahinda always push by not another. That's about offense of hidden. That's the kind search taking necessarily deep on investment. because that's that released in london with often bonus john lennon by last night fluke dot nassar too much be convened films dot and for dependent before boy gonzo vici of sodas by always pushing to begin seemingly vanished class as fellow advice on vents noise. Yours has not gone if you Hisses mon- vice nonischemic act of antietam. None of us to is not gone. If he's not survived on doesn't aleutian form. Darden leads to one. Bomb gibson uses these telecom. gabsi on. Here's vomited amish. 'cause you ought to them this notifier chapters documenting the frock them. An hepatitis concept and does academia does the l. become when i didn't mention these. Let's start inveterate uncorking on and our squeaking smith loyd off their snake ladas few dimension you dalton him garnish and unload and diverse with english. Rodney skipped as military affairs. Sanction inserts even utterly how all the necessity of gangs hoffman our map. Dasm ambitions annoys momentum. Become dome for shoddy. Madonna sheet an art she audible those cleveland's mushroom starting gate Order own not at arden. I've had intitiative come to mondays. English modern time document. That is to ministy also often. They are the how own dietsch toyota in berlin illinois on a global dot hop form medine panamian vessel on account temps van con yakub defeated. Don bosh because tesla saw stats to else fuel ship. Rita shuten game on dust seats undies mitchell. Hm morgan speed have email. Update me. Fabio and sheila henze. I'm donna stock bomb leedom bus yet. Society does albums at timberlands. La- mail address the hidden. Quincy emot- hi mindy haagen hobby critique. Take or unmarried woman. I've got an east. This monkeys could choose global in on reaching students. Had niece good for internet light on him. Yeah especially has to come as my head or here billy knocker and the police so it doesn't matter cooked but every.

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From the archives: Accelerationism: how a fringe philosophy predicted the future we live in  podcast

The Audio Long Read

48:01 min | Last month

From the archives: Accelerationism: how a fringe philosophy predicted the future we live in podcast

"The guardian hi mandy back on murals of the piece the or battiston to the pieces of acceleration. Ism acceleration is amazing. mysterious tub which floats around on the internet which is floated around also income fashionable magazine's twenty thirty years. I i came across it as an idea in the nineties when it was something that was often mentioned by people who are making drama base records for very small labels in england and acceleration as as a set of only is set people about making modern life. Fostering foster about accepting speed martin life whether it's the temp of dance records whether it's the speed which capitalism operates and accepting that speed and hastening it to try and make a breakthrough almost to back to level of kind of consciousness on acceleration. Ism has had two strands is how to kinda right-wing strand wish celebrates capitalism and. There's a left wing strand which sees technology as a way to subvert capitalism. Celebration azam has fed people on the fall. Right like the philosopher nick land and also people on the left like the late martha who took his own life. If years ago he's one of the most influential thinkers on the left in britain of lost twenty thirty years a wide discovered. When i looked at the story of this idea and the people he spread it as as much as anything. It's abou how ideas can come to kinda of possess people on how they can talk about late. Into the night often intoxicated they can run it furiously back and forth tweet about them. And how can form a kind of cult which the walls around acceleration azam university of warwick in the nine hundred ninety s and that cult then ultimately fell apart fragmented on refugees from it a now scattered around nick. Land lives in shanghai and writes about the glories of the chinese government others are in advertising the music industry Wanted to know what it was like become possessed by an idea and also whether this idea explains the muslim world better than any other ideas that have been around. And i suppose i found the journey kind of fascinating but also frightening and ultimately went into coin places acceleration as was quite an influence on members of the trump administration and in the fall right and also in a very different way on some of the people in the more aggressive and of kuban ism. So it's kind of an idea which has created radicals all over the world and my piece is really the story of these radicals and it's fascinating but i'd say you enter this world at your peril welcomed to the guardian long read showcasing the best long form journalism covering culture politics and new thinking for the text version of this and all our long reads go to the guardian dot com for slash mom. We'd acceleration ism. How a fringe. Philosophy predicted the future. We live in. The world is changing at dizzying speed. But for something not fast enough is acceleration ism a dangerous idea or does it speak to our troubled times by andy beckett half a century ago in the great hippie year of nineteen sixty seven an acclaimed young american science fiction writer. Roger salani published his third novel in many ways. Lord of light was of its time. Shaggy with imported hindu methology and cosmic dialogue yet. There were also glimpse of something more forward-looking in political one plot strand concerned a group of revolutionaries who wanted to take their society to a higher level by suddenly transforming its attitude to technology salani called them. The acceleration insists he in. The book are largely forgotten now. But as the more enduring sifi. Novelist j g ballard said in nineteen seventy one what the writers of modern science fiction invent day. You and i will do tomorrow. Over the past five decades and especially over the past few years much of the world has got faster working patterns political cycles everyday technologies communication habits and devices the redevelopment of cities the acquisition and disposal of possessions all of these have accelerated meanwhile over the same half-century almost entirely unnoticed by the media or mainstream academia acceleration. Ism has gradually solidified from the fictional device into an actual intellectual movement. A new way of thinking about the contemporary world and its potential. Acceleration exists argue that technology particularly computer technology and capitalism titular lead. The most aggressive global variety should be massively sped up and intensified. Either because this is the best way forward for humanity or because there is no alternative accelerations favor automation they favor the further merging of the digital and the human. They often favored the deregulation of business and drastically scaled back government. They believe that people should stop deluding themselves. Economic and technological progress can be controlled. They often believe that. Social and political upheaval has value in itself. Acceleration therefore goes against conservatism traditional socialism. Social democracy environmentalism protectionism populism nationalism localism. And all the other ideologists that have sought to moderate or reverse the already hugely disruptive seemingly runaway pace of change in the modern world. Acceleration ism is a political heresy. Right robin mci and armand avanessian. In their introduction to hashtag accelerate the accelerations reader sometimes baffling sometimes exhilarating book published in twenty fourteen which remains the only proper guide to the movement in existence like other harasses acceleration. Ism has had generations of adherence declared or otherwise passing. It's ideas onto each other. Refining summoned renouncing others communicating with each other in the private language coalescing around dominant figures competing to make the faiths next breakthrough splitting into factions. Burning out there are or have been. Acceleration ists from the united states. Canada britain germany italy and france. The movement has produced books. Essays journals manifestos blogs social media battles and cryptic almost unclassifiable. Communiques combining dystopia fiction with a dizzying range of political cultural and economic theory. Occasionally acceleration ists have held teaching posts at universities. They have held sporadic public gatherings in order to think out loud argue and acquire converts a few recorded fragments of these can be found on youtube. Dim footage of intense young people talking mesmeric about the future often with electronic music and abstract. Visuals churning in the background to sometimes baffled audiences in badly lit lecture rooms at any one time the have probably only been a few dozen acceleration. It's in the world. The label has only been in regular use since twenty ten. When it was borrowed from zelezny's novel by benjamin noise a strong critic of the movement yet for decades longer than more orthodox contemporary thinkers acceleration. It's have been focused on many. At the central questions of the late twentieth and early twenty first centuries the rise of china the rise of artificial intelligence what it means to be human in an era of addictive intrusive electronic devices the seemingly uncontrollable flows of global markets the power of capitalism as a network of desires the increasingly blurred boundary between the imagery and the factual the resetting of our minds and bodies bhai ever faster music and films and the complicity revulsion excitement. So many of us feel about the speed of modern life. We all live in an operating system set up by the accelerating triad war capitalism and emergent. Ai says steve goodman a british acceleration. Est who is even smuggled itself self-consciously dramatic ideas into dance music. Viren acclaimed record label. Hyper dub like it or not. Argue stephen vero an american observer of acceleration ism in his twenty fifteen book on the movement. No speed limit. We are ole acceleration. It's now celebrating. Speed and technology has its risks a century ago. The writers and artists of the italian futurist movement fell in love with the machines of the industrial era and their apparent ability to invigorate society. Many futurists followed this fascination into warmongering and fascism. Well some futurist works are still admired. The movements reputation has never recovered one of the central figures of acceleration. Ism is the british philosopher. Nick land who taught at warwick university in the nineteen nineties and then abruptly left academia philosophers of visitors he wrote in nineteen ninety-two they have the precise and reptilian. Intelligent shared by all who experiment with living things in hamilton grump. Who is one of land. students remembers. There was always a tendency in all of us to bait the liberal. A nick was the best at it. Since warrick land has published prolifically on the internet. Not always under his own name about the supposed obsolescence of western democracy. He has also written approvingly about human biodiversity and capitalistic human sorting pseudoscientific idea currently popular on the far right. That different races naturally fed differently in the modern world and about the supposedly inevitable disintegration of the human species when artificial intelligence improves sufficiently other. Acceleration exists now distance themselves from land grant. He teaches philosophy at the university of the west of england says of him. I try not to read his stuff. Phuc in the acceleration. Est movement are embarrassed. They think he's sounding like a thug. Anyone who's an acceleration est. His reflective does think how far is too far but then again even asking that question is the opposite of acceleration ism. Acceleration is not about restraint. Even it's critic. Benjamin noise concedes that the movement has an allure accelerate is a sexy word. He says not a common thing in philosophy the determinedly transgressive artists jake and dinos chapman associates of the movement and standing land collaborators. One of their friends. It grotesque paintings is on the cover of his collected. Writings fanged new minor published in twenty eleven which contains some of acceleration. 'isms most darkly fascinating passages earlier this year secondhand copies of the paperback which is now being reprinted. Were on sale on amazon. For one hundred. Eighty pounds in our politically phibro times. The impatient intemperate possibly revolutionary ideas of acceleration feel relevant or at least intriguing as never before noise says. Acceleration is always seemed to have an answer if capitalism is going fast they say it needs to go faster if capitalism hits a bump in the road and slows down as it has since the two thousand eight financial crisis they say it needs to be kickstarted. The disruptive us election campaign and manic presidency of donald trump and his ultra-capitalist anti-government policies have been seen by an increasing number of observers. Some alarmed some delighted as the first mainstream manifestation of an acceleration is politics in recent years. Noise has noticed. Acceleration est ideas resonating and being circulated everywhere from pro technology. Parts of the british left to wealthy libertarian and far right circles in america on old write blogs land in particular has become a name to conjure with commentators have excitedly noted the connections between some of his ideas. And the thinking of both the libertarian. Silicon valley billionaire. Peter the'll and trump's iconoclastic strategist steve bannon in. Silicon valley says fred turn a- a- leading historian of america's digital industries acceleration ism is part of the whole movement which is saying we don't need conventional politics anymore we can get rid of left and right if we just get technology right. Acceleration is fits with how electronic devices a marketed. The promise that finally they will help us leave the material world all the mess of the physical far behind turner the appeal of acceleration. Ism is as much ancient as modern. They are speaking in a millenarian idiom. Promising that a vague universal changes close at hand noise warns that the acceleration is trying to claim the future in some ways call. Mocks was the first acceleration est. His communist manifesto of eighteen. Forty eight was as much all struck as a pooled by capitalism with its constant revolutionizing of production and uninterrupted disturbance civil social conditions. He saw an evermore frantic capitalism as the essential prelude to the moment when the ordinary citizen is at last compelled to face his real conditions of life and start a revolution yet. It was in france in the late. Nineteen sixties that acceleration. Est ideas were first. Developed in a sustained way shaken by the failure of the left wing revolt of nineteen sixty eight and by the seemingly unending postwar economic boom in the west some french marxist decided that a new response to capitalism was needed in one thousand nine hundred ninety two the philosopher gil de lose and the psychoanalyst felix guitar ari published anti edith's. It was a restless sprawling appealingly ambiguous book which suggested that rather than simply oppose capitalism the left should acknowledges ability to liberate as well as oppress people and should seek to strengthen these anarchic tendencies to go still further in the movement of the market to accelerate the process two years later. Another disillusioned french marxist. Jean francois soi todd extended the argument even more provocatively. His nineteen seventy-four book libido economy declared that even the oppressive aspects of capitalism were enjoyed by those whose lives the system reordered and accelerated. I'm besides there was no alternative. The system of capital is when all said and done natural. In france. Both books were controversial. Leotard eventually disowned libido economy as his evil book and moved on to other subjects to lose guitar warned in the next book a thousand plateaus which was published in one thousand eighty as relatively benign postwar. Capitalism was being swept away by the wilder harsha version of the thatcher. Reagan-era that too much capitalist acceleration could suck society into black holes of fascism a nearly them yet. In britain anti oedipus and lebron lakhani acquired a different status like much of post war. French philosophy for decades. They were ignored by the academic mainstream as to foreign in all senses. And we're not even translated into english until nineteen eighty three and nineteen ninety-three respectively but for tiny number british philosophers. The two books were a revelation in hamilton groomed. I came across the beedon lakhani as a master student at work in the early nineties. I couldn't believe it for a book by marksist to say there's no way out of this meaning capitalism and that we're all tiny pieces of engineered desire that slot into a huge system. That's a i. As far as i know. Grant got hooked. Instead of writing his dissertation he spent an obsessive six months producing the first english translation. Such exploratory philosophy. Projects were tolerated at work. In a way there were not at other british universities where could been founded in the nineteen sixties as a university that would experiment and engage with the contemporary world by the nineteen nineties. It slightly isolated out of town. Campus of breeze block towers and ziggurats looked worn rather than futuristic. But it's original. Ethos lived on in some departments such as philosophy where studying avangard french writers was. The norm at the center of this activity was a new young lecturer in the department. Nick land land was a slight fragile looking man with an iron gays a soft but compelling voice an air of startling intellectual confidence lots of people clever says grant. But i've never witnessed anyone who could so forensically destroy a thesis robin mci who also became one of land students remembers. Nick was always ready to say. Don't bother reading that. But he had read it all by the early nineties land had distilled his reading which included delusion guitar and leo taught into a set of ideas and writing style that to his students at least with visionary and thrillingly dangerous wrote in nineteen ninety two that capitalism had never been properly unleashed but instead had always been held back by politics. The last great sentimental indulgence of mankind. He dismissed europe. As a sclerotic increasingly marginal place the racial trashcan of asia and he saw civilization everywhere accelerating towards an apocalypse disorder must increase. Any human organization is a mere detore in the inexorable death flow land gave strange the to collectors clambering over chaz as he spoke or sitting hunched over rocking. Back and forth. He'll say spiced his pronouncements with black humor he would tell lecture audiences. I work in the field of the collapse of western civilization studies. The quarter of a century on some former warwick philosophy students still talk about him with war. Robin mci says. I think he's one of the most important philosophies of the last fifty years but for a would-be guide to the future. Land was in some ways quite old fashioned until the late nineties. He used an ancient green screen amstrad computer and his initial warwick writings far more references to eighteenth and nineteenth century. Philosophers friedrich nietzsche was a fixation then to contemporary thinkers or culture the warwick version of acceleration. Ism did not crystallize fully until other radicals arrived in the philosophy department in the mid nineties. Sadie plant was one of them. A former birmingham university lecturer in cultural studies. The study of modern popular culture mark fisher. A former student of has at birmingham was another income. Ah he was championed intense. While she was warm and approachable for a time in the early nineties she in land were partners like land plant and fisher had both read the french acceleration. It's and were increasingly hostile to the whole they felt traditional. Left-wing and liberal ideas had don't british humanities departments and on the world beyond unlike land plant and fisher tacna files. She has an early apple computer. He was an early mobile phone. User computers pursue accelerating exponential pods proliferating. Miniaturizing stringing themselves together wrote plant in zeros and ones a caffeinated. Nineteen ninety-seven book about the development of computing plant and fisher were also committed. Fans of the nineties increasingly kinetic dance music and action films which they saw as popular art forms that imported the possibilities of the new digital era with the internet becoming part of everyday life for the first time and capitalism seemingly triumphant after the collapse of communism in one thousand nine hundred nine a belief that the future would be almost entirely shaped by computers and globalization the accelerated movement of the market that delusion guitar had called for two decades earlier spread across british and american academia and politics during the ninety s. The warrick acceleration. It's were in the vanguard yet. There were two different visions of the future in the us confident rainbow magazines. Such as wired promoted. What have become known. As the californian ideology the optimistic claim that human potential could be unlocked everywhere by digital technology. In britain this optimism influence new labor warrick. However the prophecies were darker one of our motives says plant was precisely to undermine the cheery utopianism the nineties. Much of which seemed very conservative. An old fashioned mail desire for salvation through gadgets. In her view we wanted a more open convoluted complicated world nas shiny new order the warrior acceleration. Est were also influenced by their environment. Britain in the nineties felt cramped grey. Dilapidated says mci. We saw capitalism and technology these intense forces that were trying to take over a decrepit body to observe the process and help hasten it in one thousand nine hundred five plant fisher land mci and two dozen other work students and academics created a radical new institution the cybernetic culture research unit. C. are you. It would become one of the most mythologised groups in recent bush intellectual history. The guardian the guardian the cdc on you existed as a fully functional entity for less than five years for some of that time it was based in a single office in the tight corridors the word philosophy department of which it was an unofficial part later. The unit's headquarters was a rented room in the georgia town center of nearby leamington spa above a branch of the body shop for decades tantalising references to the c. You have flitted across political and cultural website music and art journals and the more cerebral parts of the style press. there are groups of students in their twenties. Who reenact our practices says robin mci since two thousand and seven his run a respected philosophy publishing house. back with limited editions of old. Ccr you publications and new collections of you. Writings prominent among its products. The cu was image conscious from the start. Its name was deliberately hard. Edged with a hint of the military or the robotic especially once its members began writing and referring to themselves collectively without the definite article as cr you in nine hundred ninety nine it summarized its history to sympathetic music journalist simon reynolds in the terse disembodied style the trademark. Cca you triggers itself from october. Nineteen ninety-five when it uses sadie plant as a screen and warwick university as temperate habitat ccu feeds on graduate students plus malfunctioning academic nick land plus independent researchers former c. c. i. u. members still use its language and a fiercely attached to the idea that it became kind of group. Mind land me in an email. Ccr you was an entity irreducible to the agendas or biographies of its component sub agencies. Otta submission to the entity was key. These days in hamilton grant is an affable middle-age. Professor who wears a waistcoat with a pen in the top pocket it when i asked him to describe the. Cc are you. He said with sudden intensity. We made up an arrow. There was almost no disharmony. There was no leisure. We tried not to be apart from each other. No one dead. Let the side down when everyone is keeping up with everyone else. The collective element increased is speed. The ccr you gang formed reading groups and set up conferences and journals. They squeezed into the narrow. Ccr room in the philosophy department and gave each other impromptu seminars. Mci remember steve goodman a. c. c. r. u. member who was particularly interested in military technology. How it was transforming civilian life drawing yin and yang on the blackboard and then talking about helicopters it wasn't academic point-scoring that was exactly what we all got heartily sick of before the cca argue instead it was a buildup of shed. References grant explained something would be introduced into the group. Neuromancer william gibson's nine thousand nine hundred four novel about the internet and artificial intelligence got into the philosophy department and it went viral. You'd find worn out paperbacks all over the common room land and plants offices in the department also became. Cc i hubs. They were generous with the time said grant and he had good drugs skunk cannabis although it could be grim going in there once. He started living in his office. There'll be a tower of pot noodles and underwear drying on the radiator which he'd washed in the star lose the work campus stayed open late when the philosophy department shut for the night. The c. i. You'd come to the student. Union bar across the road where land would pay for the drinks and then to each other's houses where the group mind would continue its labors. It was like andy. Warhol's factory said grunt work and production all the time in nineteen ninety-six the you listed its interests as cinema complexity currences dance music e cash encryption feminism fiction images inorganic life jungle markets matrices micro -biotics multimedia networks numbers perception replication sex simulation sound telecommunications textiles texts trade video virtuality war today many of these topics the mainstream media and political fixations two decades ago says grant. We felt we were the only people on the planet who were taking all this stuff seriously. The cca aim was to meld their preoccupations into a groundbreaking infinitely flexible intellectual alloy. Like the shape shifting cyborg in the nineteen ninety one film. Terminator two a favourite reference point. Which would somehow some up both the present and the future the main results of the c. Us frantic promiscuous research was a conveyor belt of cryptic articles crammed with invented terms sometimes speculative to the point of being fiction a typical piece from nineteen ninety-six swarm machines included a section on jungle then the most intense strain of electric don't music jungle functions as a particle accelerator seismic base frequencies engineering a cellular drone which immerses the body rewind reload conventional time into silicon lips of speed. It's not just music jungle. Is the abstract diagram of planetary inhuman becoming the warrick acceleration. Est saw themselves as participants not traditional academic observers. They bought jungle. Records went to clubs and organiz. Dj's to play eclectic public conferences which they held at university to publicize acceleration est ideas and attract like minds. Grant remembers these gatherings staged one thousand nine hundred four nine hundred ninety five and nineteen ninety-six under the name virtual futures as attracting every kind of nerd under the sun science fiction fans natural scientists political scientists philosophers from other universities but also cultural trend spotters someone from the fashion magazine. The face came to the first one like cc. Praised the conferences could be challenging for non initiates. Virtual futures ninety-six was advertised as an anti disciplinary event and conference in the post humanities. One session involve nick land lying on the ground cracking into a mike recalls robin mci while mci played jungle records in the background. Some people were really appalled by it. They wanted to stand talk. One person in the audience stood up and said some of us are still marxist you and walked out even inside the permissive work philosophy department. The cc us evermore blatant disdain. For standard academic practice became an issue. Ray breezy watched it happen now. An internationally known philosopher at the american university in beirut between nineteen ninety five and two thousand and one. He was a part time mature student at work. I was interested in the c. You but skeptical bracy says. I was older than most of them. The cr you felt. They were plunging into something bigger than academia and they did put their finger on a lot of things that had started to happen in the world but their work was also frustrating. They would cheerfully acknowledge the thinness of their research. It's not about knowledge yet if thinking is just connecting things. of course. It's exciting like taking amphetamines. The thinking is also about disconnecting. Things bracy says that the ccr you became a very divisive presence in the philosophy department. Most of the department really hated and despised nick and that hatred extended to his students. They're increasingly blunt bureaucratic disputes about us research and how if at all it should be externally regulated and assessed in one thousand nine hundred seven. Plant resigned from the university the charge personal political and philosophical dynamics at the c. c. You were irresistible too many. But i felt stifled and had to get out. She told me she became a full time. Writer and for a few years was the british is favourite digital academic an it go for the twenty first century as the independent breathlessly built her in october. Nineteen ninety-seven in one thousand. Nine hundred eight land resigned from warwick to he and half a dozen. Ccr members withdrew to the room above the leamington. Spa bodyshop there. They drifted from acceleration. Ism into a vortex of more old-fashioned satiric ideas drawn from the account numerology the fathomless novels of the american horror writer. Hp lovecraft and the life of the english mystic alice to crowley who had been born in leamington in a cavernous terraced house which several ccr members moved into the are. You became quays cultish quiz. I religious says mci. I left before it descended into sheer madness. Two of the units key tech's had always been the joseph conrad novel heart of darkness and its film adaptation apocalypse. Now which made collecting followers and withdrawing from the world and from conventional summit seem lethally glamorous in that top floor room land and his students drew coat diagrams on the walls grunt says a punishing regime move too much thinking and drinking drove several members into mental and physical crisis. Land himself after what he later described as perhaps a year fanatical abuse of the sacred substance amphetamine and prolonged artificial insomnia. Devoted to futile writing. Practices suffered a breakdown in the early two thousands and disappeared from public view. The cca you just vanished says brazier and a lot of people not including me thought. Good riddance half a dozen years later at the university of western ontario in canada. A mild-mannered political science master student. Nick sonic began reading british blog about pop culture and politics called k. punk k. Punk had been going since two thousand and three and had acquired a cult following among academics music critics for its unselfconsciously roaming from records and tv shows to recent british history and french philosophy k. Punk was written by mark. Fisher formerly of the cc argue the blog retain some work traits such as quitting reverently from delusion guitar but it gradually shed the ccr use aggressive rhetoric and pro capitalist politics for more forgiving more left-leaning tecoma density fisher increasingly felt that capitalism was a disappointment to acceleration assists with its cautious entrenched corporations and endless cycles of essentially the same product. But he was also impatient with the left which he thought was ignoring new technology when it should have been exploiting it senate agreed. He and fisher became friends. The two thousand and eight financial crisis and the left's ineffectual rather old fashioned response to it. Such as the short lived street protests of the occupy movement further convinced sirnak that an updated radical politics was needed in two thousand thirteen. He and a young british political theorist alex williams coach a manifesto for an acceleration est politics capitalism has begun to constrain the productive forces of technology. They wrote all version of acceleration. Ism is the basic belief that these capacities can and should be let loose re purposed towards common ends towards an alternative modernity. What that alternative modernity might be was barely seductively sketched out with fleeting references to reduced working hours to technology being used to reduce social conflict rather than it and to humanity moving beyond the limitations of the earth and our own immediate bodily forms on politics and philosophy blogs from britain to the us and italy the notion spread that sirnak and williams had founded a new political philosophy left acceleration ism two years later in twenty fifteen expanded the manifesto into a slightly more concrete book inventing the future. It argued for an economy based as far as possible on automation with the jobs. Working hours and wages lost replaced by universal basic income. The book attracted more attention than a speculative left-wing work had for years with interest and praise from intellectually curious leftists such as the labor mp john crisis and the authors paul mason and mike davis yet the actual word acceleration. Ism did not appear in the book. We've given up on the tom now. Sonic told me it's been to popularized and mean don't just want everything to go faster anyway. Arguing for a shorter working week is arguing for people's lives to slow down. The twenty thirteen manifesto had mentioned lands earlier version of acceleration ism in passing describing it as acute and hypnotize ing but also myopic and confused. When sonic and i met appropriately. He chose a futuristic public. Space a cafe in the angular new extension to take martin. I asked how he regarded land in the cr. Us work now. Lamb stuff is a valid reading of delusion guitar. He began politely but the in humanism of it all. And i'm not sure if we're turning to the text is not interesting. All that word play using the word cyber seems very nineties. I always land what he thought of left. Acceleration ism the notion that self-propelling technology is separable from capitalism he said is a deep theoretical era off his breakdown land left britain. He moved to taiwan early in the new millennium. He told me then to shanghai a couple of years later he still lives there now. Life is an outside. it was a relief. China was also thrilling. In two thousand and four article for the shanghai star an english language paper he described the modern chinese fusion of marxism and capitalism as the greatest political engine of social and economic development. The world has ever known at warwick he and the c. c. You had often written excitedly but little actual detail about what they called neo. China once lived there. Land told me. He realized that to a massive degree. China was already an of society fixated by the future and changing its speed presented with a sweeping projects of the chinese state. His previous libertarian contempt for the capabilities of government fellow way back in less revolutionary britain lands chinese journalism a strange amalgam of pro government propaganda. Pr hyperbole and wild. Cci you imagery at world expo. Twenty ten shanghai parallel tracks melt together into the largest discrete event in world history went either unnoticed or pointedly ignored during the two thousands and early twenty tens among the steadily rising number of people with an interest in acceleration. Ism there was a feeling that land had taken the philosophy in inappropriate directions. Other members of the warwick diaspora made less conventional accommodations with the modern world. Suzanne livingston a former cc. are you member. Joined the international branding agency wolff olins and used phd work. She had done at work on robotics and artificial intelligence to help technology corporations. Such as sony and ericsson steve goodman's setup the electronic music label hyper dub in two thousand and four and began. Releasing skeletal ominous dub step records by the did south london artist burial among others sometimes with acceleration est messages deep within. It's like an onion he says are in sa- welcome to peel off as many as they want. Some will make their is water. So we don't force feed between two thousand two and two thousand. Fourteen goodman also lectured in music culture at the university of east london which along with goldsmiths college in south. London is a frequent employ former members. The warwick lot is still a group of friends. Devoted and loyal to each other says a former u. e. l. colleague of goodman's. That's the good way of putting it. The other way is to say that the cc are you. Coping never stopped whether british acceleration ism is a cultural. Not robin mci is at the center of it. Besides publishing its key texts through urban omic. He's kept in touch with most of his former comrades even land who is known and often defended for twenty five years but mci is less unsettling presence. Forty three now. He's lived for decade in a plane village. In in cornwall. He met me at the nearest station wearing severe black shirt and playing complicated techno on his car stereo with one of his children in the back in the living room of his half renovated cottage blinds down against the lovely spring day mci talked about acceleration ism and its serpentine history for hours. Smoking throughout an old. Ccr you habit and blinking slowly between his long sentences so deliberately regularly that you could see him thinking near the end he said acceleration. Ism is a machine for countering pessimism in considering untapped possibilities you can feel less gloomy about the present mccain said he experienced periods of depression his close friend mark fisher who also had depression took his own life. This january towards the end of his life fisher was increasingly preoccupied. By the i did. Britain was not heading towards some great leap forward but stasis for all the fanaticism of modern life in some ways even the most developed country still live in the opposite of accelerated times the same party seemingly perpetually empower the same sluggish capitalism still struggling for momentum decade after the financial crisis the same yearnings for the good old days expressed by elderly brexit voters and nostalgic leftists alike. Even the thinking of the arch acceleration. Est nick land who is fifty five now may be slowing down. Since two thousand thirteen. He has become a guru for the us based far right movement neo reaction or an rx as it often calls itself near reactionaries. Believe in the replacement of modern nation states democracy and government bureaucracies by authoritarian city states which are near action blogs sound as much like idealized medieval kingdoms. They do modern clave. Such as singapore in two thousand thirteen landreau too long online essay about the movement titled with typical theatricality. The dark enlightenment which has become widely seen as one of near reactions. Founding documents land argues now that near reaction like trump and brexit is something that acceleration is should support in order to hasten the end of the status quo yet the analyst of acceleration ism. Ray breezy is unconvinced. Nick land has gone from arguing. Politics is dead twenty years ago to this completely old-fashioned standard reactionary stuff near action has faith in technology and following in silicon valley. But in other ways it seems a backward-looking coors for acceleration it's to ally themselves with without a dynamic capitalism to feed off as delusion guitar had in the early seventies and the word philosophies had in the ninety s it may be the acceleration ism just racist blind alleys in his twenty fourteen book about the movement malign velocities benjamin noise accuses it of offering full solutions to current technological economic dilemmas with acceleration. Azam he writes a breakthrough into a better future is always promised and always just out of reach in. Nineteen seventy the american writer. Alvin toffler an exponent of acceleration. 'isms more playful. Intellectual cousin. futurology published future shock. A book about the possibilities. Dangers of new technology toffler predicted the imminent arrival lavar official intelligence cryonics cloning and robots working behind airline check in desks. The pace of change accelerates concluded documentary version of the book with a slightly hammy voice. Over by orson welles. We are living through one of the greatest revolutions in history. The birth of a new civilization shortly afterwards the nineteen seventy-three oil crisis struck weld. Capitalism did not accelerate again for almost a decade for much of the new civilization. Toffler promised we are still waiting but future shock her so millions of copies anyway one day. An acceleration est may do the same for more god. Long rene's in text on a selection media goto the guardian dot com for slash long. Read or find us on soundcloud at soundcloud forward slash. the guard. Long read for more podcasts. From the guardian. Just go to the guardian dot com slash podcasts.

Nick land robin mci warwick university britain mci battiston income fashionable magazine azam university of warwick steve goodman andy beckett Roger salani salani j g ballard us armand avanessian zelezny benjamin noise Viren stephen vero Phuc
El Arrebato T03 #15 El Vuelo de Yorch

Podcast RadioViajera

1:00:00 hr | 1 year ago

El Arrebato T03 #15 El Vuelo de Yorch

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B.I.G. Interview | Harrison Wind of DNVR Nuggets on Denvers Playoff Future

The Hull Show ? 1310 KFKA

17:40 min | 4 months ago

B.I.G. Interview | Harrison Wind of DNVR Nuggets on Denvers Playoff Future

"Mrs katie wenjie your host reporter and analyst for the denver nuggets. And you're listening to the whole show on thirteen ten ks k. Twenty two minutes after the hour. The whole show powered by. Pdc energy we're live from. The article is in specialist studios joining me now on our i advantage hotline harrison wind of dnv are nuggets nuggets insider men. They got it done. They avoided game seven. I'm with. I'm with the nuggets. Roster they didn't want to see dame game seven. I'm just glad they got this thing taking care of last night. Yeah no doubt they did it. They finally pulled off series common. The mike malone era isn't that crazy man it's nuts and we don't have to go through that extra stress we get a little weekend break from it. Yeah i mean well deserved. I really felt like mike malone set the tone in his pre-game press conference actually and he'll do this from time to time. He felt like me that he was really speaking to his team through that press conference and he was saying like look. We don't want to go to a game seven. We wanna win tonight and we've gotta come out at a punch first mentality. We got set the tone and look it was rocky a little not first half but i felt like his message was received by players in the end. They didn't want to go home and play a game seven. They didn't wanna play. Damian lillard game seven so they wanted to take care of business and they did. What was it about this one. Because in the third period with about five six minutes left i think the nuggets were down. What fourteen fifteen points. And it still. And i don't know if you felt this way but it's still kind of felt like you know what the nuggets could get right back in this thing and they're going to be okay now games in the past. I haven't felt that way especially last saturday. What was it about this second half. Was that what it was with. Malone's message joker looked calm even when he wasn't really scoring that much. If i had a huge third quarter but i really feel like the momentum to turn when you step nurkic fouled nicole on that three and portland almost challenged and it looked like maybe that would have been overturned. They didn't it was his third. Fao yokich has three three throws and then you sip. Nervous picked up his fourth foul. What's the bench later. And then damian lillard hip three. And then monte morris came back with that third quarter buzzer beater. And that was the moment. When i said to myself. I think nugget tavist because they got the momentum. And that monte morris three at the third quarter buzzer was massive absolutely massive and then. The wheels came off for portland. It seemed like without america to then toward the very end of regulation. That's a great point because you see the nuggets getting momentum bax are getting it. What within four five ec dame get the big play and four seconds left. Yeah morris with that kind of running three. It kind of sucked all the momentum right back to the nuggets. Portland was trying to regain it. It went right back to denver. And as you said fourth period the wheels started to fall off. Oh yeah and honestly. It reminded me a little of that game. Seven against the clippers when the clippers just didn't have an answer they didn't have an answer down the stretch in that series last playoff and that was kinda how portland steamed towards the end of the game last night in denver found something defensively dame didn't seem like he was himself a couple of nuggets coaches. Were saying like he might have gotten hurt earlier in the quarter but denver found something defensively and then you know guys just stepped up and knocked down huge shot so it was an incredible. It really was. Let's go through this first period. We michael porter jr. man he he had some coffee or something man he was he was on fire. Ended up tonight with twenty six. But what was it. Twenty one twenty two just in that first period alone. Yeah super confident. And i feel like a lot of it. Came from what he did game five and the confidence he got from that strong bounceback game out through the game. Four kind of carried over to last night and he was just shooting into a big pass. Michael malone like this and the craziest part about those shots that he was hitting those are shafi hit all raising their season. Just those quick poll up threes coming off of screens no airspace. Those are shot. He knocks down all the time So yeah like yoke q. Fouls early in scoring the first quarter. Michael porter jr. keeping them afloat absolutely massive. Yeah no question about it Talk to us about the defensive side. Now we knew damian lillard. I mean he's he's gonna get his most most games whether it's against the nuggets anybody he he's gonna find a way to get you twenty five plus. Gets you in the thirties. And of course the other night get fifty five. I was really impressed with what they did with. Cj mccollum now twenty points but he was. I mean is it fair to say he was kind of a non factor in the series for the most part. Oh definitely and. I mean thinking back to the series two years ago when he just takes over game. Seven wins the series portland. I always felt like there might have been a cj game coming But it just never happened. I i just made it hard for him. Austin rivers faku. Aaron gordon spent some time on throughout the series. They just a tough on him and you know it seemed like they were really in the end. Three players that kind of mattered in this series dame yussef nerf and nicole yokich really came down to it and denver disturbance you another role player team. Yeah and i think that was you know before the series started. We talked about the the duo not just lowered but the duo the guard duo and again taking out half of that for the most part proved to be extremely beneficial. But yeah nicola yokich man. I'm every time i say this and it's cliche but what more can you say we say that and then he goes into flat out takeover mode. I think the knock last year. Maybe two years ago was that. Oh the nuggets. Don't have that killer instinct guy the guy that can. Yeah joker can score a lot to demand the basketball and takeover a game. We are certainly seeing that now. Yeah for sure. And what is just so apparent about a call right now. He's got a great deal. For the moment i feel like he knows when denver can capture momentum. He knows when the game is kind of hanging in the balance and step to the table and take a big shot. I think about that. Hierarchy of three over yussef nurk believed that was in the third quarter. Like that was a moment that i feel like that would recognize the saints himself. I i Step up here and make a big shot just got great recognition. Feel for that and the other thing is like nicoli focus right now leads the nba inmates. The oh goals in the playoffs. He is the most baskets in the playoffs. Then he hasn't played close to the most minute he has the most baskets made in the regular season. It's time to start talking about nicole. Yokich is just one of the best flat out. Scores in the nba may be among the best before we jump away from portland to the phoenix series harrison. Wanna talk to you about damian lillard some cryptic stuff out there via social media. Lillard been known as the guy. That's going to stay loyal to portland Do you think he's going to be in portland. I mean i know. He decided that extension. What in two nine two thousand and nineteen. Do you see him. Sticking that contract out or does portland of sometime. Going to rebuild mode if i had to bet i'd say dame sticks around but the rest of the pieces around him move Like look you're portland trade damian lillard you heading towards a really long and tough rebuild You know they might be going to like a light rebuild anyway. But i would bet they stick and hang onto dame and use nervous has some pretty cryptic quotes himself last night about his future in portland. So i i would expect you know. Maybe he's on the move. Cj mccollum. i've gotta think you have to think about moving ham. I mean just how many times you've gotta run back in fail in the playoffs with the lillard mccollum backcourt and you know terrorists dot futures hanging in the balance through so i expect portland's look drastically different season. I still be surprised if damian lillard whatnot there though that will be interesting. Yeah and maybe if they figure it out they can build around him in a different way. It's like you said is is tough. I mean defensively when he's on the floor. Good things typically happen. But he can't stay on the floor and at the end of the day just who. He is so a lot of interesting things going on in portland. Over the off season now. Moving onto phoenix. The sons. get it done. They take care the lakers and no anthony davis lebron couldn't overcome at. He's out loses. What in first. Time ever for lebron james and the first round talk to us about this matchup against phoenix First off do we like better than the matchup that we saw against portland. Not necessarily. I think it's still going to probably a long series six or seven games. I definitely think denver can win though. And you kind of compare phoenix and portland Phoenix has more potential wing defenders. I think that could hold down. Michael porter jr. maybe. Now i think. Puerto gained a lot of the series of carry in the next round but bridges jae crowder. Those guys are gonna zero in on michael porter this series. So he's got his work cut out for him but the reason while be picking denver in this series is the thing that you got to look for in these teams denver's playing who's gonna guard nicole yokich at yes the andrea ayton is a really nice up in coming senator. He's had a great year. I think i think he can continue to kinda send in this next series but behind him. phoenix no one. Frank kaminsky his one their backup. Big dario starches. Another one of their backup bakes. And you saw in that portland series that you know yousef nurse was really holding things together for portland against nicole. Yokich that that was portland key. Winning those houston after minutes. And they did so after andrea eytan. Phoenix doesn't have anybody challenge. Nicole yeah okay. So i think yokes can have another huge theories and it's the leading reason why i think under can win. The guard play doesn't get any easier when you look at phoenix of course chris. Paul devon booker. Paul has to. he reminds me. A lot of chauncey. Billips stabilizing this this force in this scoring monster. That is devon booker. We expect again you. You gotta be able to to to isolate one of our slow one of them down. And do you see a guy like austin rivers again. And monte morris maybe getting the one up morris had a fantastic game last night. He's been awesome in this series Some big moments for the guards for the nuggets to i the booker matchups going to be off. Fascinating is probably going to be the key to denver. Can they slow devon booker at all. And i wouldn't be surprised if aaron gordon spends a little bit of time on him like we saw him guard. Billard column throughout the last series booker. Might even be a better match for gordon and those two were And then you know it's gonna come down to like can denver force the ball at a seven booker hand like they really started to do to dame over the second half of that game. Six denver brought their big up so high in that high pick and roll really forced to give that up to their kids kind of on the role. And i've gotta think that's what they'll try to. Do you know to chris. Ball and devon booker when those guys go into those similar action. So that's what's gonna come down to probably get. The nuggets can devon booker enough. It'll be interesting to to see on the other side. We saw with portland some former nuggets greats with mellow there of course and nurk torrey. Craig i know i know. He was a fan favorite harrison because of his defense especially that was a tough one for fans the seat. Go but you know. He's going to be motivated in this series for sure. Like he's playing. Phoenix doesn't have the deepest bench athere. They're kind of similar to portland in that way I mean they've got cam johnson coming off the bench. They got campaign their backup point guard. And that's really in terms of. I feel like who they trust off the bench torrey craig kind of next up plane eleven minutes last night. against the lakers. So he'll play in this series. I guarantee you. And i will be a nice little subplot to follow along for sure. Yeah no question about monday nights. We'll we'll take a weekend break from nuggets action. Meanwhile in the rest of the nba harrison. Who do you like. How about tonight to the mavs win this thing. Do they move on to the second round. Oh i hope so. Ready to hope. So i mean no. No home team has won a game yet in series. So that would make you think the clippers take points tonight. I kinda wonder if this is just luka doncic moment that would be cool to see He had an unbelievable series so far and if he plays like he did a couple of nights ago. the mattis probably win this one end. I think you could maybe see a little bit of a Not a rebuild. But kind of a retooling in in la with the clippers happen. So that's what i'm most curious about. Is this luka doncic. Does he kinda take that. Yeah no i'm this. This series has been kind of interesting the whole way through. I'm sure why more of it to come tomorrow bucks. Nats they start there They start their series. I mean i is is brooklyn destined to get into the finals. I think so. They've been my championship. Pick ever since the hardened trade. I think they're quarterly. That's keeping the nba. And now the thing about the off. And i think i might have even said this on your show like i maybe like the miami heat and that first round series and i have a step on that obviously the boss might just see a really good team too because if you think about a walkie the biggest upgrades they made. They swapped eric bledsoe for drew holiday. That is just like such a massive massive upgrade all facets offense defense leadership mentality. So maybe the bucks have really good team. They might be But i'm still picking brooklyn. I'm still taking brooklyn's win the championship. How was it on. Sunday hawks at seventy sixers. We'll get to that. First one to the hawks have a shot. i think they do have a shot. If y'all embiid doesn't play they do. I mean kind of like luca. Danni this is the ascension of trae young. This is kinda try trae young saying all right. Everybody who said i couldn't win the playoff Watch me and so. I love this moment for trae young i. I love this new generation of players. Just not really giving a down about anything and just going out and winning I think they can win. I think they can win. If and beat does not play which makes your point which makes the nba just to me. It's just gonna keep getting this way. I mean spread our team. I what do you think on that. Do you think we're gonna see more playoffs like we're seeing now where specifically in the west where. It's the wild wild west. It does not matter if you were favored to win this thing. And i know injuries had a lot to do with the lakers. But do you see this kind of landscape where do now instead of two or three or one or two it's five or six teams could potentially win this thing every year. Yeah absolutely. I think it just kind of a changing the gar. You know lebron's clearly On the downside of his career Like kawai as well. It's just the changing of the guard. Got these young generation of players. Coming up trae. Young john moran Luca obviously and like the guys in denver of course but these guys just don't really care about you know that they don't care about who they're going up against your job where it goes into salt lake city game one against the number one seat and just plays his game and win and toffler trash and just shows up so i. I love the younger generation of players. Just not like. I said not really given a damn and just kind of trying to conquer the league. And it's a blast. I think it's it's made it so much fun this year. Hairston what are you working on forest that we can read tonight and throughout the weekend piece on monte morris going up later today or tomorrow and games five and six but i also think he's so symbolic of kind of this nuggets team a group of underdogs who've been underrated and written off and just grinding grinding to play for each other. And i mean that's monte morris to a t- And he was kind of the low key hero. He was kind of the underrated Hero for denver in games five and six. So i think he deserves some time. Now i agree with you one hundred percent. My friend harrison appreciates you and we'll look forward to catching up with you next week. Don't get very thicker things. Harrison wind of. Dnv are nuggets. Heck of a performance heck of a performance all the way round for monte morris. So i'm looking. I'm looking forward to that right up. Thirty nine minutes after the hour. Power to play sports poll questions. Available to whole show dot com. Will there ever be a day That the nuggets the avs even the rockies can dethrone the broncos the most popular team in the state. I next up. Let's get the latest on the local sports flash.

nuggets damian lillard portland denver monte morris mike malone devon booker Cj mccollum Michael porter jr nicole yokich phoenix Yokich clippers Mrs katie wenjie Fao yokich harrison michael porter jr nicole shafi nba
Resenha: Ulthima - Symphony Of The Night (Melodic Death Metal Finlands)

Metal Mantra Podcast

24:34 min | 5 months ago

Resenha: Ulthima - Symphony Of The Night (Melodic Death Metal Finlands)

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Jeez school via felice in commission of genetic. Santa emma pena for listening alexi. Liar will key this show. Some coup after midnight jet single frisco single it a multiple proximal dot. Fuzzy maze essentially the bottle as far as classical. Who alexia who composed responded bottle early folly seal begins people blame us but for doc component about but faleh sourcing politicos who bottom after midnight of follow promo seki nova sip. Bros do follow deeper alternates. Crude after he thought it could awkward border king. Vu dominant in this report. Their new autumn vehicle demand. Ivanka japonica each swear is meeting. Does the some that. He's looking at large. And what kind of making things Mosquito she'd be moving to contributed to lie who was important for follow-up s got us until god is us up. The price is not feeling leave. Approach to talk about this guy. Isn't that much tours and chill over. Kelly studied turkey. 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This is a the sake it is thing will of bottle damaging editors about the student that banned in the field. This metal get them into the song from at that focus. I forget matters comatose. It won't admit your lean own. Oh boy eh on Faultily earn own karma. Caylao do do elevates cata on breath so some both key but in those. Bruce put four callous our fault as briquettes also famous fantastic. Who's system is on static. Scotland elegant my schoolwork. Debut as kyle coming to just put us on nature. I don't bowl if you. Hey matchy am i your body much. Detrimental fillon this. I saw that cushion bottle. Feis zoos on one thing Their spit on that. We'll to school sec- scotus. It is through setting logistical process. Says oh you think. Amusement though vasin's will remain politically of bypass inc macos audio at the match cash. Befalto boat which is is is is fantastic so nice salt as she felt as john tyson. Put you misers mukul seat. Ask asking the momentum you can follow us was fantastic as perished pods mice species comey chain kid. His father with washington. It's up to set is keep taffy earned into tops in qurna you know so then okay digital scalise. Don't stop sink. do jack default. Today's up single they enter the top. Sing could earn unless timofey quiz. The flame withers. We owed him quacks as our world would dooney at deming inca youth symphony of the night. Some quad through discuss the topic cinco kissam debut to earn okada guy. The do net co hired kelsey going buddhist could as the math leaders. Jovi you come safra in research saw on the mir phases persona this had been landing so salt by lonzo Some protozoa interesting. But they've been. Because i saw this movie kardashian operating a thing called us right the actually body do to compare it to gio gonzalez in this. Don't yes to assistance. His ankle migo could offer enhanced. You all notable debbie matto to steers towards them. He told me to move. 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#25 Rusreform med liberaleren.no' redaktr Bent Johan!

Liberaleren Podcast

27:39 min | 1 year ago

#25 Rusreform med liberaleren.no' redaktr Bent Johan!

"L. Liberal of Dean podcast three only bitterly Smith focused off. Tameer also close Yochelson your them up. Hey y'all commented knee episode that are often podcast. Close all run loop yes do. Democracy will deliver do Canoas poly but often at g mail DOT com. Paul FACEBOOK DOT com. Scroll sick liberal often awesome also have an instagram similar fabric. Thankfully of them. So let me tell you. I am not bottoming The common in the melons. They're relatively men do it dog. We end deliver her stomach. Just common bent your emotional talk about the phone who look relief also deliberately stopped. Bet y'all do doctor or a New Year liberalism docked Vigo elected marketed. Many Fun to the family worship system here mattis fisk. We've Orchard Lake on strong me. Hope who toll system there is literally all them and and also like Emil or someplace for an awesome Northeast Literally have a honing soggy open Some also hard alien from tossed health also on the hormone. Let Cook leave to Stu healthy banana on there that it's better to tell him in. NFL panicked he actually. What's your nine hundred sucked in for the next to assure them on the southbound awesome automatic on the peninsula stunt? I told US style but the system. I mean this dog aww approval Paralegal for Bono says repeal. There was a suit Ronald clarity pull up in the end zone. So that would have say Shutt- okay football for any then it. The Bathroom Talkin retiring on a but Some are GonNa Be Yours but the liberal all her book disgusting Dome of you stop it and I thought that it would go on some promote to beat us. It's on Pluto. Now known as you all ask for slutty on top of me unanimity Megani as I recall Damola Hotel. What does it I can more? What forest SCARPA Norfolk more for with a hormone law sheet? Awesome monster trusted after that August company. We also see also they're also with womack like this is not Yep I'm also opposite hobby. The Muslim Seventy Esau twitter conservative of you definitely talking. You're he also it's mostly the folks sabotage him the have often apple Garcia soundest. It is for Hogwash Elliot. Before simple summer when they openly hardcore liberalist also they said it's been a little bit all them powder new day also roughly. I've apprentice cocktails. Then had him on the talk to me on the Hashem lucky deepest stemming conduct Damaso activity on the newly released dismiss spin on us. You know. They'll they'll the keyboard liberals now. Simone thank you believed in. Sharing Liberalism dougherty focal wonderful or sweeter sweeter than the foldout Libya Liberal gooden calling over highly ellipoid expect them not to harden has foster Fox so liberal democracy after mark this all of them the F. They're gonNA say trump is small all dot gov so become up till till folks from Hollywood instinct. You'll be off. Volleyball is smart. They're all total long. Dealt licked will do scientist bent on some Sun Valley. Munir knew who scores the fuck this scheme Kazakh. It gives us clear to my show hockey host so mosquito out he would have wearing the the from in liberalism scare not in the East eastern end the Lee at Liberal Youth Spill some Visa Justice Charlier to answer abuse on Stafford about hardcore conduct capitalist. Eh Not into the monthly avenue. They'll do softener there They are medically Hatton liberal Lisbon for for Lebron he built dumped newer an F. A. or Lemon sakisat thank. You couldn't really spins on now. They had failed to politics. Some On the wind on many markets for housing show up in your men Members of the Noli. Tom Hold on month. Uh Uh so Muslim liberal. How long posters make you come false ham of until two am old old dog Oliver facebook amendment to describe it again who said I? Didn't lamentable. Solita this facebook tipping submit submit. Also today how to know player was so that's marvelous on shelves former. Aling it's Spencer. Hudson Command Post also would luneta file Madonna vile smell Mex- link on what had kissed and Toffler liberalist for for facebook. Some was nil on the ball folks. Well Yeah Love. It cycle all the prophetic so ad. uh-huh Daf masterful liberty often Kong or as to what he's also metacarpal metacarpal for do expect total. You'd be no also expert melody. Admit You're totally documental scores. As soon as you scroll stick to Salman your separate can Buckinhman Hall. Suffered the district Con Illness benefited barely get sued talking about a screw Daily Ballista the mosquito secret. Loosening up then instead at the loosening them and also look Conrad. The sick. I was basically Brian Copeland amicable. This many buchner awful dot com you condemn dollars. We'll see where the woman who connect them now. Eight books look at will be more also saw value. Reports you anchor soil gave a not bumping Madera little this map William. How do not Camille among the new all day? Oh how they melt the victim of a firm and liberal left the other day and she no longer daddy addict also local negative at a pre party although media for Shea mainly Elaine shitless too tall Utah disconcerting for the dog ball at discotheque. And they'd have the mapping it take it on the Independent. I'm an Indian this guitar Carter I did. I thought they could be in opinion. I'll be law for sure we're constantly can ask a lot of the on the fortunate all these Damn Shit. They honest leader Lawrence on the annual Miss Nostra decor which Opinion Auburn Oklahoma. Amish with Kevin. Let's see if than this you can deny study getting the one that I come Euskal. Nobody here let me talk to believe that nick is not on them. That Ma'am Remo Kahad for Chicago vs defer shell now stop passer pop impartial strong. It took so you say in the Yarmuk Vardar goal the shelter in smugly smart dog. So no one off to Las Vegas Bruno. Braschi of our shorten evolves auditorium here levers of channel relic to vote for the man dismember. I'm a libra list. Mundell Samatha Cupola postive. They'll literally center will attack that. I can control panel There some are at stake erupting for liberalist Sierra L. Nearest Makoto were The afternoon I would go all over the body so Madhav the quality of them but thank you got for some glucose me take your new golfed Yuccas calling Andrea Koppel Blair Moody Con sleater from Yada Mhm Dog playing them on Yelp. They'll Bala Kimmel's hearing some Louis Thing infamously twenty but Well how except awfulness Kunal Taffy. I'm familiar liberal looseness meal Matt. Thank you David. Take disturbed by the Google Book Governor. Tonkin end comedy. Show talk of some forget it included. He'll talk misbehavior. Thank Allah while they're on a Mel decimals festival. The deal actors still go. I SUPPO ineffectual so that are not going they will lick firstly and I asked her to keep down not abuse. 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The 2021 JUNO Awards

Welcome To The Music

30:27 min | 4 months ago

The 2021 JUNO Awards

"You are you losing weight. feeling it. The thinning effect of the virtual backgrounds off. Extend pounds off. You say they say. The camera puts ten pounds on virgil backgrounds. Takes twenty pounds off actually lose ten pounds. Ten pounds high. The following podcast is brought to you by radical road brewery. The best craft beer in the heart of leslie will find him at eleven. Seventy seven queen street east. That's radical road brewery. You didn't respond to my message greg. July talk thought did yeah. That would be interesting. That's an interesting venue. I guess no. I thought it was going to and then i got sauce. Squirrel and started researching novel menu was quite excited about a new venue in toronto. Yes or second. Like i'm google. Lean history toronto venue and sending me to the great halls page on history ethics. Let's not it another allied found in drake's new venue know how came across that. That's really interesting. So tickets go on sale tomorrow. I have access to get tickets tomorrow. Excited. i'm excited to have a new venue in the east that i don't have to just literally all on a bus and get to walk over to cox well hop on the bus. Get off the bus into the drink. Drinking live nation announced history and you toronto. Entertainment venue july talk is going to be playing there later this year. Sixteen sixty three queen street west. Which is what neighbors of the theater. And its beside the racetrack. The off track betting. The old dead sealed greenwood racetrack. Oh we're building it's near the beaches or the beach area. Yeah yeah you've got the beaches you bet. The park were a lot of music. Festivals of happened would averages babych Yeah it's it's actually. It's actually a really good location. I think in terms of transit too. Because you have queen street going west from there you have kingston road going east. You have cox. Well you have the main loop that comes down to kingston road it's It's pretty cool and also character for those people that will drive down. There are big parking spot. No they'll they'll have that open for event marking in behind by the part. Yeah in between the parking venue. That big parking spot. I'm excited i am excited. So kareem juneau's international artist of the year international artist of the year was. I don't care okay. it doesn't matter like question is why the hell do. We still have international artist of the year at the juno long-gone debut dini ask former welcome to the music guest yet asked the same thing i did to my wife the night of the generals and said why do we still have this award. Long gone are the days when we're trying to tempt who i know. Well see now to come. We watched for those of you watched this show which was phenomenal. Considering it was a virtual event a covert event. I thought it was spent carrying. There are alone of sponsors. And i think it's a canadian thing right we need. It's a really spread out country to coast. We live in ten percent of canada's landmass in this strip. That runs from victoria. All the way to stay john newfoundland and so there's international guests that have no idea. There's a need for corporate support and of the need for war. Public support aka government support. Juno awards website. Worried of the year is presented by so can. Let me just keep on spoiling braces. So quotas kim. What is so. Can you tell people were so canvas. No you want here you had. We've talked about so can enough time. We have but i cannot lead performance right. Organization rates are group of the presented by factor the government of canada and canada's private radio broadcasters breakthrough artist of the year seeing three factors of factor that organization that Get paid. yeah no no. That's so again well. Let's soak in from a radio. Embarks factor is the organization that is the government funded organization that funds recordings and funds videos. And i can say for our ban the lace. We were supported by factor. Few times of the year presented by his only. I'm only i'm only cutting in. I've only cutting into about this. So that like it's shows you. I understand what you're single private but these are very important groups that support the king music industry. That are not private organizations. Carry on so. It's international album of the year. Because i think. I think what's candid out or what the juno awards as an organization has realizes that while side of whenever justin bieber actually really interesting as i say this out loud. We have justin bieber. We have the weekend. We have jewish shawn mendez. Justin bieber again. That's why i'm saying dude. We don't need international. We're not trying to tempt some big international artists to come to the junos to accept their award for international artist of the year so people tune in to see them. We don't need that anymore. I'm looking through this. You know Gp sachs who leave screaming on non. Grammy winner Friend another former guest Meeker barnes justin bieber the weekend shawn mendez Just that's international artists blah blah between the on leong leonard cohen s. Jesse rao's run glorious son's like we're just like i get married like atlantis morissette. Yeah i know. I know what you're saying. I mean i don't know. I don't know but i was excited. That our friend dating miles dropping former gessler miles one for alternative album of the year which mytalk with july talk and listen there. There's a long of miss we've had this juneau's was actually very good to our podcast. Because our podcast. I believe was very good to three juno. If not more award winners or nominees let me just quickly. Scroll miles july talk. Dan o'connor okon which widely for world music album believable music nominated for adult contemporary album for her album. After three round land's through group of the year crown lands. I was so excited about crowns. Do you for yourself. But yeah so for for those listening greg. I'm on our podcast. And there's a great chance that you will at least be nominated for a juno. We've got full at the juno awards. Were still trying to or at least greg is trying to have them remove international album of the year. Outside of that we can. I will say if we were moved international of the year. Yes then as potential guests. According to your serey we have lost eminem carey styles. Luke kuhn gms combs pop smoke and t swizzle sweetie swifty. There's also the contemporary christian gospel album of the year. Yes that's an interesting category. You'd like to think that we're opening that up. I mean it was very. It was very focused on diversity the show and the discussions. It was very focused on the discussion. That really our topic. That really was discussed heavily in last week's show with our bergman the residential schools Yeah there was a lot that was heavy heavy but covered heavy topics which i thought was great because music is a reflection. I believe of what's going on whether what's going on locally in someone's neighborhood or what is going on around the world and future guests was also nominated for rock album of the year. Neil young I did not know. He was sure that's true. He'll be coming on the show soon. Yes godson congrats uncle. Neil nominated classical. Let's interesting of children's album of the year. You know what they still have album cover album cover of the year now. I thought it was interesting to the way they they like. They always have that. You know during the show that you know recorded on friday during us here all the awards. You didn't get to see because they say all off awards for sunday. I thought that production on friday was really didn't you. I thought i thought he was great. Don't lie know. I did friday. She was great. Friday show was great. And i thought sunday show great. I'm serious i'm not anymore. Freddie show was shot. Friday show as well produced and it was a lot of content that i realized yeah like to see that kind of stuff on june was weekend so why not make the is rather than a big of i mean. There is the big event on sunday. Don't get me wrong but you know. Make the friday events or the size partners having whatever friday make the friday event. Yeah you know the van ye couple of the great cup like what i'm talking about. Yeah i don't know if that works you tell people. Is that if you waited award friday. You're you're still in school but didn't you have that before you had that before. You didn't even you didn't even get to watch it eating and get to see the speeches. It was some some buffet dinner. The sheraton hotel tried okay. It was better than that. I'm sure but my point is it's true it's true. Yeah i don't know. I don't know and whatnot i'm gonna say bad things about sheraton hotel. I think you're seeing bad things about what no more of that. I'd like to see more of that. Production on friday. Okay will talk to the people at the june because we haven't we have full and yeah well now that now that we've hosted so many of their winners as much as you know. I like our kells. It's my understanding that they came out with one new song and an acoustic version of older songs in two thousand and twenty. Aren't they win. Group of the year is that based on. What is that based on. I don't know i. I i honestly i have but i will tell you this. They have been very active. Ever since the The pandemic started with teaching people how to play their music. Doing a live. Instagram chats with fans is doing a lot of stuff so they've done a great job of building community building the sand bass. I think building up building. Your own commute your family's families during it. Yeah for sure. I was kinda hoping that from a classical perspective. Tofte music seems to be as talk music One of our former neighbors. He still there. We moved. Is an elitist with toffler music. And they seem to be a perennial favorite but my guess is they did not released last year. There's a useless piece of information for this podcast. That i'm sure is just yes while again. Everybody now wow all twelve of our listeners. Since moved on to listen. I think so up to up to twelve so your son might four kids your wife. My wife's there seven minus thirty eight. Wait listen listening twice. And that's perfect Yeah we're all. They're all listening to the ongoing on ongoing history of new music know. Keep the alternative album of the year presented by long and mcquade interesting. You know we do need to get on here then. I hope in the car and go over and drive later on to our show. Yes blues album of the year yes. I don't see why you can't go and set up your Your tech over there and Yeah she could be live on your side. We're still independent cal. My wife is going over friday. Pick up a couple of rain barrels and he dinner and then a from hiawatha hiawassee. Food truck is going to drop jaafar names. I hope that showed drop by crystals and drop by. Drop our and draw the podcast. Okay yes that was actually interesting. Because that's quite like that again. That was a big shift. And i remember seeing it in the releases in the press releases of her moving from that country sound into a blues side. I did not know who was or who she is until you mentioned well if only you were part of a music podcast. You probably know christmas. Raynal she is franchising. Listen a late. Congratulations thank you for being a four time we all maude cast award nominee. I don't know why you haven't changed the bio on your twitter and instagram accounts. No lincoln lifted. I don't know if you have your logging information for linked in at the very least your email signature could have at least one of those nominated badges in your email signature. We have nominated badges that they give us nomination. We've got we've got some so we've got like a promotional material j. peg that we can attach off. I know we get a badge if we win we yes and like not like mallika pin burden gaza. The order of canada that kind of thing get a badge of us on our website. We can probably like go on at sea and order a order of canada pin and just wear rates. Not like we wouldn't say anything. We were just weirds and sooner or later. Someone's going to wrap your arm. Greg pull you aside and say one the order of canada and you'll just see up. I've got order of canada. And then i think that's i mean or we can just wait until you actually get upon enter our bonzes order candidate pins two and then we could split them. We could we. You'll have to. You might not even pond them well then upon but awards the four people. Listen to the last episode. They will hear that. Yes well greg. Are we going or not going to july talk concert in december history. I would love to go to the july talk concert in december. Go buy tickets tomorrow. Sure questions with my wife likes to go july talk. She would like to go and we'll get four tickets believe me. We have moved. Mountain's here the junos. She's like oh. My god i love this and i'm like i looked at her. Like who would you my wife did. He play on friday then. 'cause i didn't see them on sunday. They played did they play on friday. Oh they played the endless. They played the indians lights. Does he know at the indies including the indies indies. Yes i think it's more that she has a personal connection with danny now than the burning things so we have well. If you've noticed tell celtic checker stats over. Since she started posting pictures of opium her likes on. Her photos have gone down so i think she's lost gone down. Yeah i'm not gonna stop. What was that up in to stay from the fields. The poppy shields of afghanistan does the data loves her. Poppy say they yes canadians. Maybe not so much they have. Will they have vaccine passports relate check for vaccines or is it just a free for all. Do you think by december. Let me flip. This takes me a ticketmaster like talk tickets now and again. This is more less a does ticketmaster say this or not and more as we head into the first round of concerts post covid indoors. What does that look like. Do we just go while we're vaccinated and you antibac- you're screwed. Pass it around. Good luck to you. If you have your phone by can quickly go and check to time. Guest multi ward winner. Biff naked instagram account. There's a concert in edmonton i think. Fifty four forty also playing on and it say socially distance live concerts though. I think that's later this summer. The truce fifty four forty fifth naked august eight edmonton but again. What i'm talking about is not outdoor socially distance. You know it's going to be interesting to see as we head into the all what concerts look like. I don't know. I mean i i think so. We're assuming that we're assuming that come. December the assumption is that the numbers will be low enough and the effect on people will be weak enough that our hospitals won't be are ron spills if there is any question about hospitals this concert is not going on if hospitals are in any way of factor to this around then this concert and will not be and and i'm sort of as they go and purchase the use through my calendar. You know friday. December the tenth. It will be with the understanding that if there are still problems with overcrowding at the hospital because of that they're still high numbers then and no in july talk. I'm guessing the concert will be postponed in. I'm cool with that for sure it's league it's like tracy tracy from our team at iron gate sent me a festival it's happening you may fourteen twenty twenty Brookside at the rose bowl pasadena california. And it is morrissey bauhaus blondie devaux echo in the bunyamin. The second alex ferns. The violence stems the church. The english beat and many more time to the eighties. Holy mackerel. yes i really. So really bauhaus will be headlining. The show when the promoters have to go on stage and say we're really sorry morrissey is throwing your his that he won't be joining us on stage at which point she said. Oh he'd better be because that's why we're going sitting on this is like a yes tour you buy your tickets for. Yes is hoping that by the time your city comes up. The band is still together in perform. So when i look at morrissey and i look at yes to me concerts in the near future are like that from the perspective of you buy tickets and when it happens you think wow. I'm fortunate and july talk. I've seen in three times. I i. I have not been disappointed at all. I've never seen them all. Wait to see they. They this mug are celts headline show at the budweiser stage. Talk with supporting the few couple of other bands. I think said the whale was also there. And i went to see july talk and i was like all wanted and then our kells i most arpels was going guys put on a show like their party. Band is that the one where nick nurse came up. No no this was not a thing not a thing. Maybe nick nurse thing. He was more than a thing In houston he was probably still live assistant coach and then i saw them and then they headline i think two shows if not more at nancy hall as i went and loved it and then i saw them with my brother my brother wanting to go to a metric show. I said yeah. Sure are like songs supposed to be metric and july. Talk is awesome and metric. Your mind. no july talk was awesome. Metric was on. I swear to you. I swear to you. It was yeah. It was like kind meal young. And you don't like metric. How are you and i'm partners in crime on music. Podcasts sucks but i wanna know your. Maybe it's because of the diversity. He you bring diversity you have rabbit probably selling beer on your t-shirt the folly of door brand no selling selling selling cloud based web services. Pte election nerd. Yeah delicious brains graded would've nope no. I'm fully admitting. I am wearing a purple shirt with a rabbit running fast. That's promoting a cloud based image offload optimization software and now we have a negative listeners. I am wearing the defenders of the water school ending. Work t shirt from standing rock any wi fi from the store was oh my goodness white stripes. Which is they've jack. Black jack jack jack. Black and rocket out pro.

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Episode 228: The Past and Future of Big Tech

Scholars Strategy Network's No Jargon

44:27 min | Last month

Episode 228: The Past and Future of Big Tech

"Hi i'm lizzie ehrlich lisa hernandez and we are your hosts for scholars strategy. Network snow jargon. Welcome to the relaunch. We're changing a few things. No jargon will now be a monthly podcast. Rather than weekly and it's led by two hosts. Here's a little bit about us. I'm lizzy getting erlich. Y'all know me. I'm back from before. I'm still the policy director at scholars strategy network and i've spent a lot of time with our organization. I love talking to all the members who research such interesting different things. Lisa can you talk a little bit about you. Yes you don't know me. But i am the reproductive health and rights associated at ssn. My main focuses repr- obey scholars. And just helping them. Connect their research and expertise with policy speaking of policy each month. We will discuss american policy problem with one of the nation's top researchers without jargon and this month we decided to take on big tech end government. Not a thing. I think a ton about in my normal life. Nope i use every app imaginable. But i never think about it. Use it all day every day purely private sector thing that was just something i was consuming turns out. Maybe we're a little bit wrong about that yet may be. There's a lot of relationship issues right now. Going on with big tech and government. I haven't been paying as much attention to as much as i should write like. It's kind of always going on in the background. And you know you hear about an fcc hearing or senators you know questioning facebook and it's sort of played for laughs. Sometimes i feel like people in the two generations we represent who are just using this technology all the time. Pretty seamlessly but Yeah there's not great feelings currently and if none of us are paying attention to it. Then how's that gonna end up right. I think i have like a bit of a couple of one liners thrown in congressional hearing or maybe weird haircut of some sort that i'm supposed to remember but that's as far as i get so i was really excited to get into the nitty gritty and also. Just get a lot of background information on the beginnings of big tax. That i was not aware of right. Yeah long before we started using twitter there was all sorts of other stuff going on with space space. Yeah that's how it started that. That was something again that i vaguely knew. And then talking to margaret. O'mara i was like i am like the cold. War is what made government and technology really start putting their heads together and see how we could you know. Combine something that was being made for consumers and something for people buy in the home and like private development of technologies and actually make it something that the government was supporting in. There are reasons for that end since then things have gotten a little tricky. So you know. Let's listen either are scholar for today. I think has a lot more to add for this week's episode. I spoke to dr margaret. O'mara she's the howard and francis keller endowed professor history at the university of washington where she writes and teaches about the growth of the high tech economy history of us politics and the connections between the two. She's the author of the book. The code silicon valley and the remaking of america. Here's our conversation. Dr o'mara thanks for coming on one of the i know jargons in quite a while. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me lizzy. Yeah really awesome to be chatting with you and especially because big tech. And i'm doing air quotes over here has been in the news more and more lately and you know we really wanna talk to you about some of these developments but before we get to the more of the now stuff we kinda wanted to know. More about what sparked your interest in the topic. You know you've been studying governments relationship with big tech before it was a major topic of discussion. What started that. Where did your interest in that issue. Come from yeah. We'll my interest in the history of technology actually came through my interest in political history. I was in graduate school. This was in the early years of the internet boom so a long time ago and i was embarking cer- tation that was focused on the the early years of the space age the early cold war and was actually approaching it from this question of the economic impact of military spending. Not really thinking at the time about how much this was indeed about technology and what it was seating and what sort of power structures it was creating and what type of economy was creating that led me to to higher education institutions that were becoming all of a sudden agents of political and economic destiny in a way that they had not served before becoming more important players in american life and the broader research complex based in both academic and government institutions as well as private sector institutions and companies that was emerging in the fifties sixties and beyond. Can you take us back to that time. And maybe share a story about one of those early tech pioneers. That's just when people are thinking today. I think about big tech. That is just it has been wiped from our collective mind that those things are connected to today's google. Yeah it has and connecting those dots. I mean you know that's the great thing about being in the business that i'm in a being a historian is figuring out how we got to now and how these things are connected. One of my favorite stories. That i think illustrates this looking at silicon valley. History in a new way and silicon valley's present in a new way is the story of fairchild semi-conductor. This is a company that is held up as kind of the granddaddy of all venture backed startups. Because it is it's founded in nineteen fifty seven in the future. Silicon valley wasn't yet called that by eight engineers who had come out a few years earlier to palo alto to work for a nobel prize winning scientists and co inventor of the transistor named william shockley who relocated from bell labs back to his hometown of palo alto to start a silicon semiconductor startup. Shockley among other things was a really really terrible person work. For and so these eight young guys decided on mass to quit to find some outside financing and to start their own company a competitor company and thus fairchild is born among those eight include cofounders of intel the co founders of kleiner perkins or one of the founders of kleiner perkins one of the major venture capital firms in the valley that has backed hunt of an honor roll of companies and others again. You really see the seeds of the valley to common this new model. So it's really held up as this is the beginning of the scrappy startup. And the and the free enterprise mythos that surrounded the valley is very much associated with fairchild and the disruption. It's like. I had no idea. Yeah these young guys. But here's the thing so these. These guys agree to incorporate in the early autumn of nineteen fifty seven. What else is happening in the one thousand nine hundred fifty seven well in october. The soviets launched the sputnik satellite into orbit beating the us into space and throwing washington dc into a tizzy about the fact that the us is falling behind in this really critical part of the cold war struggle. And what does this precipitate. Immense new spending on space technology missile technology essentially sending things into space whether they be armed or not rockets with astronauts in the more with phones of any anything. We've got anything and so what do you need for the space race. You need a very small very light very powerful electronics which turns out is exactly what fairchild becomes a birthplace of and all of a sudden they have this customer this very deep-pocketed customer it in the form of the us government both nasa and the department of defense so the secret history of this scrappy startup. That's held up as this is the beginning of silicon valley as we know it is that for the first few years of its existence government contracts were the vast majority of its book of business. It kind of enabled this rocket ship literal and metaphor work to launch and really created a market for advanced electronics. That had not existed before it's this blending of public and private that i find so interesting in the story of silicon valley. It isn't just that you know. Big government came in and we should give them the credit. It's a very american story. It is government funding oceans of it washing over northern california. But in a way that is allowing private enterprise to flourish very intensely competitive and also simultaneously commercialized. Semiconductor industry grows in the valley. Thanks to this money. that's coming from washington dc. But it isn't like it. It's you know they're able to become more than just defense. Contractors it creates allows them to drive down the price of their products to kind of reach a threshold of commercial viability and off to the races. They go and that's i think a really important part of understanding this alchemy between public and private. It's important and understanding how american political economy works. How american government works in this. Very you know the the way that of them so many other social scientists scholars have have talked about the government out of sight submerged state and and that is exactly what we see in the story of silicon valley. I think definitely. I'm already seeing how we're going to get to where we're going to get to in this interview right now with these antitrust laws these hearings so that's great but let us take a moment to fast forward. That wasn't written as a joke. But i i've seen now that it is as i read it to the eighties and nineties when the tech industry is really starting to make them more public name for itself. Tell me about one or two of the important events that was taking place at this time. For what we now know as big tech. Well the eighties is when the silicon valley as a phrase a term of art becomes familiar to people when the products that are being built there and also in my town of seattle art becoming familiar to ordinary american sooners because really that nineteen eighties with personal computer hardware and software and video games. All of a sudden. The tech industry is building consumer facing products for the first time. Like microchips are like machines that go and other machines like no one's paying attention and in the eighties. You have these new products that are so super cool and they're going to homes and schools and kids are playing video games and then on top of that. You have extraordinary business leaders. And storytellers like notably steve jobs. Who among one of the reasons he loom so large in our imagination. Steve jobs who co-founded apple in nineteen seventy seven. It goes public in one thousand nine eighty by the early nineteen eighties. Jobs is a familiar face on magazine covers. His great talent was the ability to tell a story about how a computer could be useful not just useful but how could change your life you know. He talked about personal computers as being like a bicycle for the mind. What an extraordinary idea right. We can immediately grasp that you know bicycle is something that takes human capacity and makes it. You can go faster than when he walked right. But you're still powering it. A personal computer is like a bicycle for the mind. Because your brain is still controlling. You are still in charge you as an individual have control over the machine but you're able to go faster do better be more. You be a better you and that promises. Something that continues to be pitched an eagerly received by by customers through the eighties and nineties. You know what's really. I think a lot about what i do. Try to do a lot in my work is is is connect the story of tech with this broader arc of american history political and social. To help you will understand how. It's all connected. We often look at people. Like steve jobs or bill gates particularly in their earlier years as these kind of quirky guys with the floppy hair running around barefoot in california. Aren't they different. Thinking different. kind of us decides icon a class. Yeah sort of breaking with tradition disruptors. Don't have anything to do with the status quo there and no one and they're not building on anything before then. No i'm not sherpao. But i know i know so so. Look there's i mean this is the value of of just sitting back and and reconciling. Look these are these guys. Were different they were you know. And but why were they so eagerly received. We'll look what else is going on in the late eighties and early nineties. For example. the time. That steve jobs and bill gates's stars or ascendant. There's not a lot of other good economic news you know you open the news magazines. The business magazines in the late seventies early eighties. It's all about competition with japan about the auto industry. Getting bailouts from washington about an economy is sputtering. What else is happening right at the same time. This is the reagan revolution. This is the election of ronald reagan to the presidency and the ushering in of a really profoundly new set of governing economic ideas and policies. That are reshaping. What washington is doing The relationship between government and citizens and also take currently between public and private an era of deregulation an era tax cuts and this is the world in which technology companies and big technology companies. Some of whom microsoft apple around in the eighties come up later. But they very much. A product of reaganomics writ large. If you think about reaganomics as something that is set in motion during the presidency of ronald reagan but continued and enlarged during the democratic presidencies of bill clinton and barack obama or other republican presidencies of the to george bush is on and on at a really forty year period in which the private sector had a great deal of latitude to regulate itself and to grow in ways that were unbounded or less bounded than they had been before. And so you sort of did it. Just now take a moment though. You're not an economist. to describe. This will be fun quiz. What is reaganomics. What does that term refers will reaganomics in a way is is the flip side of the new deal order of what we never called it. Roosevelt nomex but you know any kind of the the notion wait as it so that so the response to the great depression by the roosevelt ministration and by both democrats and republicans afterwards is a of acknowledgement of a greater role of the state in american economic life of providing economic security for individuals and providing subsidy in partnership with the private sector. In a way. Where where it's a high tax high spend regime but also is creating a floor below which particularly individuals are extensively not allowed to fall in creating a path for In the large of the middle class or the white middle-class certainly in the middle part of the twentieth century reaganomics is also known by terms. Like here's an. Here's here's a piece of jargon that i kind of gets me because i think it's often bandied about without proper conceptualization neo but the idea of a less regulated business environment lower taxation than notion that by taxing companies less they will invest more. They will hire more people that the wealth will trickle down To the workers that rather having rather than having mandates or interventions or other sorts of public supports and public programs assuring economic security or at least attempting to that instead the private sector takes the lead that allowing more flexibility more autonomy in the private sector will ultimately be more beneficial for economic growth overall and for the fortunes of all. Now what we have found forty years down the line after both again this is. This is an idea that emanates and is embraced first by the republican party and the republican party is most closely associated with this of course but also the democratic party itself is changing and and embracing some of these business friendly policies. And what this you know where we find ourselves. Forty years after the election or the inauguration of ronald reagan is that Have exceedingly inequitable economy. You have growth concentrated at the very top in ways in the united states that have not been seen since the gilded age of the great capitalists of th- railroads barons of oil railroads and steel. When things start to be a little less chummy where we are in an era now where it seems that government has developed some serious concerns about big texts power. What are some of the problems. Start arising during this time and as we progress towards the current century will. It is remarkable. How fast things have changed in a relatively short period of time which is of course the story of tech john right i was gonna say that's the yeah but let's dial back only ten years so we're talking here in the summer of twenty twenty one in the spring of twenty eleven april twenty eleven barack obama than three years into his first term as president is going to facebook for townhall with mark zuckerberg in which the biggest kind of pre pre event buzz was is market going to wear a suit or is barack gonna wear a hoodie. Who's gonna dress up. Dress down turns out they both wore suits and then took ties and not that there was an absence of you know some friction but your term chummy sums it up there. Was this love affair. A bipartisan love affair with the tech sector that really starts in earnest in the nineteen ninety s as the internet is commercializing and internet companies. Are the the david's in the world of goliath like big telecom companies and so when the nineteen nineties during the the clinton bill clinton is president al gore in enthusiastic technological adopter and champion of technology. A very very important figure in the commercialization of the internet is vice president. Newt gingrich another. Techno file is become speaker of the house in nineteen ninety five. And it's right at the time that the internet is you know this is after the you know. The mosaic browser makes on which then becomes commercialized netscape and makes the world wide web accessible to people who don't know cow decode and you're just seeing this blossoming of sites like yahu and ebay in these early. You know dot com Success stories are coming up and you have these spectacular. Ipo's and so washington is figuring out. Okay what's the what it can be the rules of the road for this new digital revolution and embracing ideas of you know as al gore talked about the information superhighway. This new infrastructure in which information via the internet is going to become this great equalizer. This is going to be a impetus for economic growth. It's also going to be a means to mitigate inequality geographic and racial and economic all of these things that the internet was pointed to and so in this environment where you have an centrist democrats in the white house. You have conservative. Republicans in charge of congress. There is The one of the few things that this very partisan environment can agree. Upon is that silicon valley companies need to be left alone to grow as much as possible that there are these extraordinary economic phenomena social phenomena and we should not impose the same rules that television radio or supposed to adhere to in terms of what you can say and when you can say it right yes so there was a real you know the biggest concern which was legit because in the early years the internet it was obvious that a vast amount of the stuff on the internet was porn and so the big where the big regulatory conversation came about. The one thousand nine hundred was around how you keep children from being able to see pornography on the internet this is why the communications decency act says that platforms like facebook or google or other platforms cannot be held liable for what third party say on them and that is the one signal piece of regulation that comes out of this and just reflects how this was just a different time and place. It was different time a a moment. Particular political moment. It's reflecting the priorities of the parties and the people that were in charge the time and also where the industry was at the time. Mark zuckerberg was in sixth grade when the telecom reform act of nineteen nineteen ninety-six was passed so we are just in a totally different regulatory era. Now you're giving me a lot of thoughts here. That are now starting to move very quickly. So get we're sort of illustrating what this entire type of technology is about for the record as an eighties. Baby i remember the first thing. I looked up on the internet and it was my little ponies justice center myself in this out the same age as mark zuckerberg let us talk then a bit. You've teed this up already you know. We started out. There's a there's a space race. We're thinking about how to beat the soviets and we're thinking about how to make the sort of micro technologies that are that are seemingly a bit more tangible. You know we have the sweet sounds of compact discs. But now we're getting into the internet and it's much less tangible. It's more about communication in some ways than it is about products which i think for me is a shift. That's difficult to make a little bit when we talk about like what this actually is and what we're getting out of it and what government's role is in regulating it because yet is extremely different from something like television. Let's talk a little bit more about social media. We mentioned apple and microsoft some of the early technology companies that ended up treating these platforms and then we have things like facebook that you've brought into the story. Which are the fixed book is not the internet. It's a means of using it. Which you know started out one way and ended up certainly about sort of user to user information spread. I guess have the phrase. I might use to describe how it functions today and this is where i wanna pull the government part back in you know. Can we talk a little bit about social media and disinformation something that has been such a hot topic since the two thousand sixteen election. What is what's going on there is messy. Yeah and this just shows how much you know what we talk about is tech or silicon valley. First of all is big. Tech itself is a set of shorthand for a set of companies. That are very different lines of business. Pathway with different regulatory implications but social media is one very very important part of it. We also talk about silicon valley's undifferentiated. You know this is tech and and we sometimes don't historic size it enough to really tease out well. Silicon valley itself was an area in northern california. That was a hub of advanced electronics hardware production. It was manufacturing right and even the eighties with the pc wars between apple and ibm This week this month word in august ninth nineteen eighty. One was the year that ibn came out with its pc. So this is kind of Heyday of the four. Forty years down from that and that was all about hardware hardware hardware'd building things that sat on the desk right and even when microsoft is coming. You know microsoft with windows and and becoming this enormous force in the nineteen nineties. It's still providing software that you put on a computer at lives on your desk right so this is all by way of saying that up until the twenty first century you could compartmentalized tech. It was very important. It was undeniably had an economic effect. But it was not the the b one story on the business wasn't the front page of the business section every day. It wasn't that almost every business story is a text story and so many political stories or tech stories. I mean as a side note. It's so funny to me. I've been writing about silicon valley now for more than twenty years. And for most of that time i would tell people who i write about tack silicon valley and a write about politics. And they're like what's the story there like. There's no story there like silicon valley in washington. Dc have anything to do with one another and known really says that to me anymore. But i think this is all really important to understand why we are adrift in this ocean of oh my god what happened so social media these platforms. That are coming up in. The first decade of the twenty first century are solving a really important business problem that the dot com era companies had been struggling to solve. Which is how do you make money on the internet without driving people crazy. So let's throw ourselves back to saint nineteen ninety nine or two thousand and you're online and you're having a good time and you're on yahoo or wherever and there are pop up ads just driving you crazy banner ads pop ups at the. You know just to get people's attention to get the eyeballs focused on things. There were all these kind of you know jazzy stuff that was crowding and making these web pages. Sometimes intolerable to look at incomes. Google with this beautiful white space. That's just zen right. you're coming in. there's no ads. there's just text. It's all very straightforward. It seems very anti commercial. Even there's no no nothing distracting you. It's just pure information. And then what. Google figures out to make money on that is you can do something different. You can take that beautiful white space and you can monetize that white space by tracking the way that people are using the space where they're going where they're clicking and taking that information and selling to advertisers and then you can also embed adds into the space in a way that is much more subtle in his harder to distinguish what's an atom. What's real so. Google and facebook are so wildly successful if what they set out to do which is to sell advertising on the internet. This is what youtube does too. I mean this is the business model. This is when you know. When mark zuckerberg a few years ago is called before congress to answer for facebook sins and chuck grassley at one. Point says so. How do you make money. Jackie briggs like senator. We sell ads. And that was you know you know the moment when you saw this dissonance between when when people like me were like oh. It's going to take a long time for the moment when congress realized they should have spoken to margaret. O'meara i i know so Yeah so that's getting to the question. Disinformation so here. We are when when you just have tech being this useful tool. That's on your desktop. That's kind of off to the side or facebook just a place for college students to find a date. There's something that's you know. Kind of benign about it. You know it's not really benign to kind of have the user be the product but it was the way that this was something that was the key to unlocking immense success for google and facebook and then for thousands of other companies that are in their way defense ministers. Hell when you say it does not these. Aren't you know they are not thinking about these. Were not designed to be political town squares. That's the other really critical thing. Yeah these are designed to sell ads on the internet. This is what they're four again. Is the trade off that users make without really knowing you know you are you are the value. Nothing is free on the internet. You know the turning point comes not too long after. Facebook hasn't been business all that long. It's founded in two thousand four by two thousand and eight. You have the candidacy of barack obama super cool the super cool campaign. Br obama that in early two dozen eight during primary season is like setting up an office in palo alto filled with eager stanford students who were interning there to like have this very wired aggressively online campaign among other things is using facebook very effectively. Chris hughes who would subsequently has become a great critic facebook but was a zuckerberg roomate harvard. Remain an eight co-founder of part of the early team. Facebook was brought on by the obama campaign. campaign adviser doesn't he that the campaign that got barack obama elected president. How much it used is beautifully designed facebook post to in a way. That's you know if you actually look at the content of them they're kind of it's old. School is kind of the way. Social media was was working in a kind of more benign traditionalist way was kind of taking the hopeful message. Is that you would ordinarily put in a tv ad or a mailer and just transposing and digitally but also fundraising online in a way that you were getting you know. Small dollar donations more easily and people with less money in their pocket could be part of the process. It was all so hopeful and these companies kind of embraced that role and so did everyone else was like. This is great. This future of democracy well turns out. It was the future aussie so by the time you get to the twenty sixteen election which i think going back to your earlier query in when did it all start going sideways. I think two thousand sixteen was the moment by twenty sixteen. The facebook of two thousand eight is not the facebook of twenty sixteen. It's much much bigger for one. It's international for another and and it has a again embraced its role as a facilitator of political conversation and a source of news at it has gone far beyond the social functions that i had into things. That are much more far-reaching and also there's so much information you know alvin toffler. Who was futurist. Who counted among his fans many silicon valley people and also newt gingrich Toffler coined the phrase information overload in nineteen seventy and you know we are living in the age of information overload and twenty sixteen by then there is so much information for these platforms are so full of people and information and posts that in order to get people's attention you need to tap into their emotions and what is the emotion. That often gets you. The most engaged scare anger engagement is engagement and so donald trump's campaign was the perfect perfect campaign for the social media. World twenty sixteen absolutely perfect. This engine designed to sell ads on the internet. So effectively was now perfectly designed for the messages that donald trump was sending out into the world and meanwhile the hillary clinton's campaign is kind of running an obama two thousand eight a campaign on facebook. And that's not the way the platforms worked anymore. That's not the way the world works anymore. And there was a in the people that i talked to for my book and i talked to a lot of many people from many different points in american in silicon valley's history and mitch kapor. Who's still a very important figure but was among his. Many accomplishments was the Cofounder founder lotus the corporation lotus notes. Kind of early on word processing and other desktop software. He was a great proponent in the nineties early nineties in the early days the commercial internet of out of keeping the internet free of what later becomes known as net neutrality. Although we're not taught you know that wasn't the wording used but The he talked in the early to mid nineties about a jeffersonian internet. A place where everyone is essentially a standing on their own digital soapbox and has voice and where you can have again sort of hopeful idea of democratic discourse without the gatekeepers with traditional hierarchies of information and when i talked to him In this must have been about twenty seventeen two thousand eighteen. And i said you know where where are we now. He said we were just so naive. We were so naive about you. Know if you bring everyone together if you connect the world of course you're gonna generate sort of marvelous marvelous connections and look these social media platforms have done an extraordinary amount to bring new voices into the conversation but also when you do that when you connect the world you bring out the best humanity and you bring out the worst and the ease with which the worst can now find one. Another and the ease with which disinformation and toxic messages and messages of hate in rage can become amplified and solidified and reach a true mass. Audience is we've never historians don't really like to say we've never seen this before. This is unprecedented. But this is we do have not had any communication medium. That has been able to do this in this way at the scale. So we've identified the problem. Government is now starting to become a bit uncomfortable with clearly some of the power that has been unleashed by these companies that were previously allowed to sort of flourish on their own in the private sector and doing so. Have you know amassed a lot of power on their own in terms of just funding popularity management with just public life. The way people expect to be able to use them and don't think of that is something that the government could regulate. but we've got some some issues with you. Know what what what. The effect on government is from from having this kind of discourse ends up tickets up to today. And what's happening. There's some antitrust laws targeting big tech the way you've laid it out it almost sounds like there's a philosophical component to this problem that i'm wondering if government can really touch it all but tell us about what they are currently attempting to do. What's it is. Remarkable how much momentum has emerged around regulating Technology companies in a relatively short period of time and again just in parallel to the nineteen nineties. Where democrats republicans really couldn't agree on anything except that the internet should be allowed to generally self regulate itself with a few guardrails but not very much and now the about the only thing the democrats and republicans can agree on is that big tech is too big a need some sort of regulation now. The devil is always in the details so there a couple of things. What's happening now is that we have in the house side. A package of five five bills were simultaneously introduced that a really sweeping that are also quite frankly very informed very informed by scholarship by legal scholarship social scientific scholarship. You know it should be noted that while the public tech lash may be really started in earnest in twenty sixteen or so scholars have been pointing out the problems with social media platforms and other technology platforms for along dime while y'all pointing out problems we did like you're doing it wrong. We sit there on the corners yelling. Please listen to us. But it's not really fun being proven right in this way but still there. Is you know there were a lot of a lot of scholars Really thoughtful work being produced long before the public was paying attention. And now i think journalists have really caught up to that in your view see a lot of these scholars who are no longer shouting into the void and our getting quoted the new york times instead. So that's good. That's a good thing but these packages have are moving through on the hill are are are being informed by that. So that's i think that's a good thing. Here's a great example of of a connection between scholarship of research in practice. That's that's actually. Having a tangible effect also the biden administration it has hired in a number of these very prominent tech critics. Tim wu Legal scholar from colombia's in now part of the by administration effort. Lena khan who was another legal scholar. Who wrote this. A critical paper on amazon and amazon antitrust that made waves when she was still a law student. She's now the chair of the ftc's this is a big deal. You know we changes are coming. The question is wet and so. Here's where the details get devilish On the you know you have. These companies have are incredibly wealthy. They are now spending a good chunk of that wealth on lobbying so the largest tech companies have become some of the biggest lobbying forces in washington. Dc trying to make sure the regulatory environment kind of goes their way They're not all in alignment so that is kind of an interesting dynamic. There may be a bit of a. You know who's best stat getting their way. That could go on. But i have been thinking a lot not enterprisingly about one hundred twenty years ago when we had another antitrust moment That was also in response to the growth of enormous new hi-tech industries than it was oil steel railroads etc. I'm an new financial instruments. Great trusts is great. Kind of bundling of all companies in a certain industry altogether too in a way that that drove up consumer prices unlimited consumer choice and that sort of new economy this could economic landscape that also was a time of intense economic inequality precipitated political momentum momentum across the political spectrum that resulted in the antitrust infrastructure. We have today. The ftc itself was came into being in nineteen thirteen. Nineteen fourteen right at you know at this moment of in response to the the rise of those old great corporations and so the federal income tax gets enacted in nineteen thirteen. You know all these things are are happening in response to economic change and a high tech wealth of an earlier era. So i you know. I think they're in a way. This is this is a life cycle. Fake was not surprising to me that there are these criticisms that there is this political momentum. And we'll all of the things happen. That the you know antitrust crusaders hope It's it's going to be tricky. But i can't imagine it's hard for me to imagine that the status quo is going to remain. Okay my final question to you. You know as an expert. What would your ideal next phase b and a lot of the scholars that we interview really hate having to anything resembling prediction. But you're a historian. And i actually think that historians are a little better setup for that. Most historians really hate making predictions using what you know about the past and this is not actually predicting. I'm not. I'm actually not asking you to predict i'm asking you based on your expertise. What would you like the next phase to be in terms of government relationship with technology in a way. That's going to be community building and free enterprise but also working to empower equitably our country i think one of the you know what the next phase needs to be as i based in a new reality that is again based on the reality of history that silicon valley is not this place apart is not this techno libertarian paradise that successful because the government had nothing to do with it. It's successful because the government was there every step of the way. I the funder of the cold war state in the space program and as a as a customer as a contractor as a sponsor of research as a sponsor of higher education grading the human capital that fuels technological revolution and then later as a partner as sort of creating a whole set of policies taxation regulation. Subsidy that really created an extraordinary runway for tech growth and now it needs to move into new phase. This government public private partnership needs to be acknowledged a needs to move into a new says that is not as asymmetrical where tech has all of the too much of the power to much of the knowledge but where it is a little more of a fairer balance. We do need more diversity in the marketplace. The argument that comes out of silicon valley as well the market kind of take takes care of itself and you know. They point to the relatively recent antitrust at all the one microsoft based in the late nineties which this was all about browsers. microsoft crushing netscape. Well turns out that you know netscape kind of by the time. Microsoft was ordered to break up which ultimately didn't have to because of some you know other thick problems with the trial netscape was already kind of had withered away. And also that the market moves on you know. Microsoft then ceased to become a market leader. Because it kind of fell behind in in things like search and other things that other Giants rose up to do. But i don't think the market takes care of itself. You know we do need to think more seriously about privacy. One of the things that i've been pursuing lately is looking more deeply at um in writing about the the long Around data privacy and computer privacy and and of missed opportunities that the us had to create a privacy more regulated information environment where individuals privacy was more respected. But you know we talk a lot about Data collection or data the right to know what these companies know about you. I think what we also need to think about is the right of companies to collect information the first place which is another level of of data. It's not just keeping that information private. It's actually just keeping the information from being being harvested. This is a real challenge. The business model. I am not saying any of these. None of these and none of these things are going to be done willingly and voluntarily by the companies. You absolutely have to have what we've seen through history is you have to have the the public sector representing the public interest creating this countervailing force for so that for profit companies whose businesses not to you know do things that are good for the world. They're there to do things that are good for their shareholders. We need to find a better balance. And and this sort of going back to where i started acknowledging the public role in silicon valley's growth. I think is really critical because one of the pushbacks that happens. I'm against regulation or government action that comes from technologists investors. Others is that well. We're so we were able to do it. We did because government got out of the way and no government's been part of the story. It's been a partner throughout. you just haven't seen it. It's been hidden had a site. It's been submerged Read some reason political science route. Some history get to know You know an an understand that this is not something that is going to yes. It's probably gonna mean that your your stock price isn't as high. Your prophets aren't quite as enormous. But hey you guys have had a really good run and there needs to be some tempering and some re-balancing and we can still deliver fantastic technological advances in products. But hey let's think about how we share the wealth more broadly. Well if there's one thing i know about people make a lot of money it's that they love making slightly less in order. Yes the public public sector influence. That's that's you and me in the government we make. Let's get to work. Thank you so much for joining us. On no jargon doctrinaire was a pleasure to speak with you. It was great being here. Thanks so much. Thanks for listening for more on margaret. O'meara's work chatter show at scholars dot org slash jargon. No jargon is the podcast scholars strategy network nationwide organization. Connecting journalists policymakers in civic leaders with america's top researchers to improve policy and strengthened democracy. The brand new producer of our back again show is our communications associate. Mendonca motions donavan. If you like the show please subscribe and rate us on apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your shows you can give us feedback on twitter at no jargon. Podcast order email address no jargon at scholars dot org.

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UCL Matchday 1 Picks | The Champions League Show (Ep. 25)

Soccer Gambling Podcast

25:00 min | Last month

UCL Matchday 1 Picks | The Champions League Show (Ep. 25)

"The soccer gambling poke is g by wingback wing. There is now widely colorado indiana michigan new jersey tennessee and virginia producer policy. In on every major sport we'd bet house what you need to win so on up today to receive a five hundred dollars sports bets. Download the app now over here at wfan and bet dot com and start winning today. But he puts up. America's number one to brian. So slow specs on your up to five hundred dollars. Cash dot dot com and deployment as she paid by picks lies picks wise ease the number one hard of free spoke bag. Picks picks wise dot com to make your next pet. That's up those tabuchi. Rye oats crowd a you. The best foot were better in the. Us crowd challenges us approve. It went that free to play fantasy bank contests with over thirty thousand dollars up for grabs over the season. You need to go to odds crowd dot com to sign up today and of course does get dollar. The s. an app s. g. p. n. Is giving you the choice to win. One hundred thousand dollars on nfl week. One exclusively on the asking out. You're listening to champions league. We preview here on the soccer gambling. Cost you can follow this up and cost own twitter. Hdb's yoga that's s gp soccer for additional content. Check out my website looked dot com. Look band call more on montclair state at one hundred a month in a row of transparent profit the pay no spreadsheet for the previous month which is muslim ninety nine will be currently as the pin tweets on the twitter account. That's i it should be. It should be so good. The pain sweet is the previous month's pay so you can see that. We really do have nine months of transplant and profit. The other sheets catch overlooked. Come and as i said. The hundreds month is currently in progress. But we are well no way to making a one hundred month. Inner of transparent profit a reality of tobacco of destroying the tennis shoe has been in having a very very strong star to the circus owning august but carrying on here in september. So you can sign up just in time to get as champions league futures goes. Nfl futures with week one being played just week one being played and you can even go back and try and find those domestic soccer futures. But you can get all the place for the rest of the month which will be champions. Futures aneesh embassy games on of course domestic soccer and everything else that we do with a big boxing match. She coming up at the end of the month with anthony. Joshua taking on that will be covered on the show over on sports gambling. Podcast network move on with the champions league show now. The future should picks the futures lanes. There was a future show already put out a week. Goes you've got plenty of time to digest that what we do on this show. Is we pick out. A small selection of games now by intention was to put this podcast out a lot earlier. But you can still hear. My voice isn't quite right Scream my lungs out. One of those old trafford on saturday watching the debut nowadays. It's only really gotten back to back to normal or to a point where i could do a cost today. Where it wasn't so squeak. he said. unfortunately that's why you'll get on tuesday as opposed to a monday is intended and what we're gonna do. We cover a small selection of games here so of my favorite games but over at my locker in dot com site. They'll be a separate poke cost out covering all of tuesday's action and then tomorrow whatever. Poke calls covering all of wednesday's action so if you don't hear about a game that you're interested in you need to head over to look in dot com to get the poll cost that covers tuesday or the po- cost covers wayne's day so we are going to begin immediately with the game of the week hit without question the game of matched they one which is barcelona versus by meaning now spoken at length before. About how ball. Celona only really have one major win over a major scalp over the last couple of years. Now as you eating inside that thanks back to. She's threes because they really haven't been pick-up wings. And i'm talking about the looks of a flag madrid's and real madrid in their own league. I'm talking about when it comes to the champions that crop of teams. That could win it. Power sanjay manner say dismantle ball selena. They did it. Law season You venter's our team that warmer three ball. Also now the only win they've got as the reverse fixture at you but you were absolutely ravaged by covy so that one barely counts of course. Possibly the most significant one would be the game against by munich where they were not out of the champions league. Eighteen twenty twenty by eight to margin so this is somewhat of a revenge game here. A boss alone actually didn't play out the week and boss'll under will be much more rested hair off the international break because they didn't have that game to play at the weekends by munich dede's and they looked very very good implying that game at the weekend. Winning away. So rb leipzig. That was a game. Where over on the european show locked by dot com exclusive show. We thought that some bonding it would win that day. And we picked up on the fact that leipzig look like they've got significantly week but we were not expecting her sounding for one victory so they come into that one less rested the in very very good form and i think that will give them the edge I often think that rest versus rust always needs to be considered restes goods. When you don't want to be the situation. We just played a couple of days ago but rust is is bad. Like if you if you're group of pilots balsa to have now played sincere. Smashed a window playing their first game. Together he's back in. I believe august the twenty ninth. That isn't necessarily going to be great for you. Especially when it coming up here against the by munich team a white also incident eight to result because that was an agency result where they did it with messy on the field. I particularly think that also have become a lot more better organized. Defensively on the royal cumin seeds that result. So i still alive by meetings and get it done here The the old city's game see bomb unique as the sixty five favorites to pick up. These away win is three to one on the jaw. And it's five to two here on barcelona barn of one the last five matches and he scored twenty seven goals in five matches. They've won opening champions league game and they lost seventeen. Same campaigns seventeen in a row gun for eighteen. Obviously doesn't get much more difficult than this difficult is when this owner team are struggling when it comes against top opposition as i said the one way that i can remember across the last two seasons on that came against the us or ravaged by cloven and that includes not being athletic and not being real madrid. A not being power. Sandra mind and not be embalm. Unique in champions league games ball munich unbeaten in eighteen trips in these competition unbeaten away in eighteen. So i love going away. Doesn't matter where is it can be a new camp doesn't matter they got fourteen wins and four draws so. This is a very very strong play from the i've completely disregarded the rest of also in the weekends i'm not putting too much weight into revenge on just looking at this saying this fixture and seeing the by munich in my opinion beat. Barcelona at this was actually Something we talked about over on the future show and lock our season. Look contact centers around these philosophies. Well so go and check now. You still got time to check out the future show on the soccer gunman pocos for the champions league. It's been out for about a week anyway next game out chelsea at home to zenit because this is the defending champions first game back obviously no value on the money line which the other a five favorites in six to one to draw. And it's sixteen to one here on zenit on continuing to ride chauncey to win games with a clean sheet until let's see any reason not to do that. I've gotta continue to get here three to four. Which is quite short price on someone to win. But i do think it comes to frazier. Voyage chose are unbeaten champions league group games in eleven games. Some eleven games in the group stages out a loss. I don't think they're going to suffer one in this particular group. She's not a very strong group and she should get through comfortably They have now won five of their six meetings with russian sites in this competition and zenit have lost all their trips. All senate just older trips and law season's champions e. groups and lost them by at least two goals so i if chelsea going to win by more than two goes here that probably going to end up keeping a clean sheet as well. I think this is going to be a very one sided game and we all know chose defensive. Record they'd been solid in the premier league defensively again. This season conceding just one goal and that was a penalty against liverpool and therefore haven't conceded a single goal in the premier league. This season from open play no goal conceded by chelsea from open. Play this season. This adds to the fact that thomas to show law season Took over as the chelsea manager from frontline paul and immediately sought out the defense and that leads to them keeping eleven properly clean sheets eight in the nineteen games that told me to show was in charge of. He then obviously took own to the champions league they can senior defense solidly and that was one of the key reasons why they ended up winning. Champion champions league final against match to city so really like these play here on chelsea to wing to kneel. I've been playing it regularly in epl. And i'm going to stick with it. Head started to champions league. I resent that one's available at three or four to funnel we're gonna look out on. Tuesday is row versus atalanta now. This is important because these are two teams from each group and one of these who along with manchin know will be the two teams that go through so this is a very important guy. My have dismissed. Young boys are getting go through. They start with a difficult game at home. It's imagine right if you want to hear about that one that one is over on lock backing dot com on the champions league show for tuesday's have been individuals tuesday individuals show for wednesday. This is a key game here because these two could eliminate one another based on the results against each other and villarroel of seven five. Win these home game a s- thirteen five here on the jaw in a narrow underdogs atalanta here at seven to four. I'm gonna lane with the home team in the situation. I do think that they'll find a way to get it done though. I'm gonna take them as a pick in the pig market which is available for me here at five to six months. One twenty vin around have won all seven of their home games on route to lifting. Last season's uefa europa league now. Obviously this is a much more difficult competition. But i don't think atalanta representing that step up here so far this season based on their form which has been poor on the last two domestic outings. Joining new kneel at home to bologna and then lost to ones. If you're in a week and this is a free scoring atlanta team on paper at least or at least in previous seasons have managed to find just three goals so far this season three games and that included day ninety second minute winner on the opening day of the season so apart from that night. You take a minute winner. That's been the only win. Since then they've had a board your against bologna and a one hundred against foreign saying these not top teams in italy so atlanta were giving a dream start where they could have established themselves as rutile contenders with nine points from nine. Instead they're saying there with four very disappointing points as sevilla al. They've not had the the exact haven't had the most flying start to the season but they're just a very very difficult gay team to play against. I mean just mentioned. He lost the europa league finals. Them law season. They'll they'll make things difficult for you and they'll find a way to wait important games again. Osman united the most important game of arouse season last year and the most important game of mentioned it season last year was the europa league final and that was not one by mandates. It was one five arale who under ameri found a way to to win that game successfully. they come in off the back of three of the game so far where they've drawn off river now during a blanket home to granada's not a good result Anita israeli joining away to spagnolo nil nil. But coming away with a two two draw away toffler madrid in a game where you lead twice and i fly community needed a very very late goal to to get anything from that game. That is a very good result and assessments. How difficult federal arts apply. I think they find a way to to win this game. I'm gonna take him on the pick market though because that pushes if this one ends up being jaws you do have draw protection net in not one For villa row. But i just think the form of atalanta is very underwhelming on. I think villarroel have a chance to beat them here and put themselves in the boxy to go through with manche and hopefully my assumption is correct that mansion. It's it will be too strong here in this group moving onto wednesday and we start with the team who i'm expecting to be well too strong for their group. They all the favorites to win their group of four to six that is braschi adult men who were drawn into a very very weak group where they all the significant favorites. Now it's it's a week because dortmund are not considered strong favorites to win this competition but there are very very strong for the windscreen. If you look further down you'll see great which is similar Would severe being join a dream group as well with them being favorites With the crane competition coming from wolfsburg and lil of france. it's a similar situation if dormant. I starting turkey away to besiktas away. They are going to be the eight to thirteen favorites. It's tends to three to four and it's ninety two on besiktas doing very very good away win at the weekends in the hasn't been much consistency with the laws. But i do think there'll be too good heads witness going. If you can win at leverkusen you can go away to besiktas here managed to win. This one dortmund have won three of the last four champions league away games as well and that includes severe and then it's petersburg so i really do expect dortmund hair to to get free points on the boards and take a commanding lead in this group which is expect him to win pacific. Tessa foul to win three of the last four european games losing to enjoying one and earning holland comes back to the champions league and he twenty goes and he's i sixteen champions league got compassi games. That's more than a goal a game. Already he'll be ready for the champions and that's why you're seeing him here two to five to score anytime here. That doesn't obviously at a value. Perhaps if you took all in sorry erling holland along with treatments when you'd get a little bit more value on that one you could piece those together. I do school decent win. Or do you think gallup to a winning start here in this up next. We look at athletico madrid at home. It's you pulls where. I fly four favorites to start with a wing hair. They are in liverpool's group. Incidentally i live stockings. Ac milan today will look at that. Game shortly. Six to one on polls zones thirteenth five on athletico co earned itself group here and in need to win their hung games. I think everybody does the team that would emerge with the most home wins. We'll be the team that go through with liverpool again. I'm favoring english sides here because do english sides are very very strong and they will all manage to find their way through to the next round i covered. She's one of their last. Fourteen champions the matches winning nine of import ovals for the last eight champions league away trips. Pull going to be difficult at home. I think now is going to be. But that's the same for everybody in this group. And and phil is going to be a fortress milano. The san zero athletico madrid here out. The wonder and is very very important that they do pick up at least seven points here at the one that that will mean that. They'll need to win this game against porto and that's why i think now do so i'm going to take madrid at the price of four to six on the money. Line here in this one up next. We'll look at the manchester city game. Their home to rb leipzig. Nancy the second favorites to win. This tournament are available at two seven to win this game. It's five to one on the draw at it's ten to one on rb. Leipzig lovesick absolutely bashed at the weekend. Bye bye meaning lost time. Lobbied played in manchester traveled to manage united and they got bashed five nil. I cannot see why mentioned city wouldn't cover a modest one point five handicap here in this game. That one is available here for you even money. I think leipzig. Don't look the same team. They're not looking like that. With the absentees especially upper mcconnell. Who's going to by me and of course defensively that that was k- for them. The new manager is going to take some time to have his players playing the way he wants to play with these new philosophy. And i think as i said at the start of the season if you remember what but in this league preview this is it's hayme that may struggle to even get back into the champions. They were very very sure to do that. But there's obviously going to be a massive transitional period when you lose so many important plays and you have a brand new manager and you'll managers don't so well for you he's completely reveller revolutionize you'll team by me wants to give him the by munich job that's gonna be a massive loss that was massively underestimated by the books and now he's seeing how poor lobster have started to see the. It started with a defeat. As we know away to tottenham but since then they've come roaring back they've won each of the last three competitive home games five goals to nil at it wouldn't surprise me to see something similar. Obviously not picking five near here. But i am picking manchester to cover handicap especially when you look at it the fact that lives. He goes forward at home to by the weekend and have five defeats and they lost seven away. Games lost three of their four champions league games against primarily teams lost season odi managed to get through because manchu. She basically sleepwalking through final championship. Game we'll beat them three two so. I think a nice game from manchester to start looks difficult on paper. It looks like ps g mansi evening. Joining the difficult group leipzig bena. I don't agree. I think those will comfortably get through a manchester e cover the handicap. Here in this one up next we do look at para sandra monday trouble to club bruges where they all the wonderful favorites. It's eleven to to join. it's twelve to one on club bush. i think power sanjiv man. It's just a piece here. I don't see them going away to belgium and not getting anything here from the game. It's just a case of how you end up betting this and i think he'll be a game that will feature goals. I'm going to going to attack on the over. Two point five goes to this one's a bitchy and over two point five goals passive one six of the laws eight away champions league matches whereas club bridge of lost three of their farm champions league home games and couldn't have five neil to pierce g. There have been seventeen goals and the lost five club bruges home championship games in nineteen goals and the loss. Five power sandra man. Away champions league game so we're going to see messi neymar and back here in this one i think is going to be an impressive star. If you're getting good value on pitchy on with the over two and a half goes he may want to consider going as high as over three and a half goes on getting piracy and over two and a half goes here at four to six. That's going to be my play over three and a half to six four plus one fifty five. You're feeling very brave. Go for that one for me. Pierce gene over two and a half will be the play to take here in this game. The game of the the week i said was by munich verse Sorry boss universities by the other way rounds but also you could add into the same conversation. These last two games at we're going to cover one is insulin versus room. The versus ac milan now. These are not covered here on this show. Because i think the i have particularly strong plays in this game. Uncovering him because the very very big games that people wanna hear about so whereas they know exactly on my shortlist of games where i love the place. I am covering these as part of the show because people are going to be interested in seeing him intern. Real madrid could be a decider in terms of who wins that group. Inter originally favorites. And he's i because it's seventy five to win it five to two on the jaw and it's nine to five here on rome madrid. I can see this being a free open game. Because i don't think the two teams are particularly worried about the opponents behind them. I do think chateau don't ask our team who who are dangerous in the champions league and people would be relishing the opportunity to schachter by still ultimately think this year despite not not happening last year needs to join together will end up being the two teams that go through. The game will feature goes room adjoining schooled in all of their game. So far this season being over two and a half goals in all of interest games in three rumors lost four this season and real madrid beat into twice in the group stages laws season so real madrid could be alive. Underdog care. But i don't think there's a better play than both teams score and that one is available at four to six in this one The processing for the liverpool games. He's liverpool as strong short favorites here at wanted to. I think they'll win here. And but i'm not particularly interested in them at wanted to it seventy-two to and it's twenty one. Four here on millan again. I think these this game will deliver. I do think that will manage to see. Icbm getting on the scoresheet therefore both teams appeal Four to five. I'm talking about an online scoring so do report find a way to win this game. Liverpool manado schooling. Their games in the season so much like in rome madrid have just one clean sheet in a loss for home games against italian sites in the champions league mill fell to school and one of the last eight away game so i think originally. They'll they'll sit in But i think was liverpool's scored the opening goal. The game will open up and even if milan manage to nick the opening goal. I still think these anfield stadium these support who carry liverpool through to the wind so i think ultimately both teams score i want to reiterate. This isn't one of my strong players. I don't really love anything in this game. The likes of real madrid vs insert liverpool versus eighty. Milan are really appearing on the show. Because we want to cover the main games here for you. Every single game will be covered over locked in dot com tuesday. Show today wednesday. Show tomorrow so make sure that you check out. You want analyses for every game. But we've added these two on the nc. You guys get to hear about them as people are looking forward to to to. Watching these games is not the case though for by munich away to bossard on it for me is strong. Pay that falls into lock contention. Among a handful of other games also considered a lot to be goes in the g game worth appears to a win. I think i need to start with a win against port on. I think no. I think chelsea will end up winning with a clean sheets against these are all strong. Plays along with buying winning basa but my lock here for this show is going to be on. Manchester city's cover a minus one point five asian handicap liner. Even money against rb leipzig leipzig of not played. Well the season they coming off a four one home defeat against by munich managed city recovered from a opening. Disease and lost to tottenham three games including winning away. Let's the two home games win by five goals to nil loss. Limelight travel to magister. They lost the match. United by five goals and also. I'm expecting a comprehensive victory while it might not be five now. I do think the modest won't put five asian handicapped lung. We'll get cupboard where you need manchester city to win by two goals. Most that's going to be a lot here for match. They won for the champions league. That may good luck of all your bets as always and thanks for listening.

soccer munich champions league madrid europa league leipzig villarroel tabuchi Celona liverpool pocos unbeaten champions league grou barcelona Champion champions league twitter bologna sevilla al
Grey Scott Futurist On Artificial Intelligence

Sci-Fi Talk: The First Season

26:08 min | 3 weeks ago

Grey Scott Futurist On Artificial Intelligence

"Hi i'm brad dorothy. My name is calling salmon all jennifer going then trump. He's hey this is katie sack off. Greg grunberg gareth edwin. My name is never pigeon. Emma concept designer in film. Hello my name. Is matt brewer and welcome to sifi. Talk hi this. Is tony tomato and welcome to sci-fi talk today. I'm going to be chatting with grace. Scott is leading futurist and techno philosopher. He's been invited to speak at business. Schools technology events for nassau's innovation summit an international technology forums in europe and asia. And he's recently partnered with. At and t. To protect predict the next level of technologies we'll see in the future and is willing to share his expertise with us a welcome dr scott. It's great to have you. Thanks tony i. Unfortunately i'm not a doctor but you're not adopting the thank you for having me. It's my pleasure. Artificial official intelligence. It says in the article. I was sent. There's fifty seven people own some kind of day. I i actually have two at home. I have the alexa happier. And the a is one in my living area and one also in my bedroom what what do you think is going to be the next breakthrough in artificial intelligence. Well i think what we're looking at in the near future is affective computing meaning computers. That can actually understand emotions and read faces And we have all of the systems in place to make this happen so for example. We have cameras everywhere. We have cameras in. Our phones have cameras our laptops. And we have the capability using i right now to Scam the world in three d. And for the and for ai to understand what actually seeing affective computing basically our perceptual computing. You can also call it. Emotional computing is basically giving a The ability to understand how you're feeling and how your Sort of predict your emotions To certain degree as well affective computing is really. I think the next Stage for sort of the personal computing space. And what i mean by that is is the the computer being able to read your expressions and understand emotions. So if you if you're if you are looking frustrated if you had If you're making frustrated face or or if you're angry the machine will understand that and be able to either implement some sort of strategy to de stress you or help you because oftentimes we're we don't really know what to do to solve really complex issues when we're online typically If a machine can read that you're having trouble and this this goes into customer service representatives as well. You know robotic ai customer service representatives if they are if you're having a face to face with one of these ai bought they can change the script. Based on how. You're feeling so i think. Effective computing emotional computing is the next big thing. There are lots of companies working on this right now. until a microsoft I'm sure apple. I mean apple already has face I d- facial recognition to open the phone. So you know we. We've already talked to computers how to recognize faces. It's just the next step in In this process yeah. My my wife was saying that they actually had a Demonstration on ai and her company and they said for example amazon is experimenting which stores that can essentially cameras can see what you're doing and what you're picking up no charge it to your account if you take with you. So a father and son did an experiment. The son picked up the candy. A candy bar for example and then would they thought it wouldn't see them slipped into his father and who would be charged and sure enough. Father's account was charged. So the the ai and the cameras so exactly who got the candy bar in charge and it's interesting and a little frightening at the same. That's for sure. I don't know i guess. Frightening a great way to describe it. I think it's frightening because if if you if you if you're not studying A if you're not paying attention at paying attention to emerging technologies. I understand how it sort of catching society off guard. Because we're we've been very distracted over the last fifty years There was a time when In the mid sixties and early sixties where Futurists and science fiction writers were really prominent In culture the idea that we were about to become a space species. You know we were about to go to the moon where possibly going to mars and we. We just got distracted and right. Now you know the media so consumed with politics that we're you know as a as a futurist and technologists. It's very hard to catch the media's attention to get them to talk about these things i mean thankfully we have elon. Musk you know he. He's he's really good with the media so he he he is. He's able to get his message out there and get the attention of Of the media which puts future ism in the ear of most People in the main in mainstream society. So i can understand how people can be a little afraid of this. I think part of this year to is that people don't necessarily understand how the systems work they also don't realize how advanced they are. I mean they're ai. Systems out there. Now you know you just you just described one. You know behavioral analytics That idea that machine Machine learning could could predict your behaviors in your desires. We're already there. We're in the middle of it right now. you know. I hear all the time from people when they find out that i'm futurist. The one of the first things. I say is oh. It's so weird that i was looking on my facebook profile and i was thinking of something and then two minutes later popped up. That's such a common phrase that i hear from people now it. There is an algorithm running in the background. There's an ai. Running in the background right now. That is watching everything we do. Online depending of course on what ecosystem you're if you're in the facebook ecosystem obviously it has a certain set of parameters and if you're in the google ecosystem or if you're on amazon to each one of these is paying attention to what we're doing. We don't realize culture how often we are recorded especially in new york city. When you walk out of your house your your recorded hundreds you know hundreds and hundreds of times every day and all of that expoliation of of digital information. It just doesn't evaporate. It actually is going somewhere. You know. I've been i've been trying to tell people that We have to realize that we're we are actually creating What i've called the digital twin. It's actually an an industrial digital twin is in an industrial system but I'm using it here on the more personal level meaning everything that we do every piece of data that we put out. There is creating a scaffolding for our digital self in the future. Yeah that's amazing. You know it just seems like people are worried about you know. Nineteen eighty-four and big brother is watching kind of thing you know so it does have some good and of course how would use it could be used for bad and they're also afraid of you. Know the the terminator were the machine said. Hey we can do this better than you. So why we following. You should be the other way around is your any basis for that right now are is the are the a is from what i could tell right now. They are pretty much servants and even my alexa is being taught how to interact with people and they even have a program where you can interact with them so they get an idea how to talk to people. Are we at a point where we should worry about. Essentially them taking over or is it just kind of like right now. They're at a good place because they're serving and not wanting to serve. I mean they don't have sentence. I guess is what i'm getting at. Yeah i think you just touch on what was about to say And that's that's an important distinction to understand The way i've sort of laid this out as as as we move towards the twenty fifties. What we're seeing right now. Is the the primary just station stage for ai so The organs are being developed. The of brainstorm as being developed It's sort of in the the womb. We're in the womb state right now. It's remarkably sophisticated. And they're they're not generally intelligent meaning that they're not sent in they don't have A sense of consciousness on their own as far as we can tell. I mean there are some weird little anomalies that have been happening where. Ai has been able to teach itself and and become smarter than its original version which is a little scary. You know specifically. Let's just talk about that. That case Even an ai that can learn to teach itself and optimize. Its performance doesn't mean that it has any sense of where it is in the cosmos. It has no sense of self it it it you know i what needs the body to have any sense of of space. There's still a lot lacking when it comes to creating consciousness in these machines. I'm and i have been saying machine. Consciousness is coming more than likely around twenty fifty at the latest twenty sixty if there's some sort of disruption in systems dad's pretty amazing. Why don't we take a short break talking to scott and we're talking about heart official intelligence which is believe it or not especially science fiction fans. It's been on our minds for a long time. We'll be right back. I am c. three. Po human sidewalk relations. This is better name. Hi i'm angel. Kobe and i take one of it. And i was. I plead pippen and load of the rings. And you're listening. Sifi top revolve prosper back with gray scott leading futurist and techno philosopher as we discuss artificial intelligence. It also seems to me gray that we are far away from you. Know a robby the robot or a especially an android like commander data from star trek because movement and creating a body is actually pretty sophisticated. Software is easy hardware is the the hard part of the reason. It's hard is because to create a humanoid it's taken millions and millions of years of evolution to get us to this to this body right. We are trying to catch up with millions of years of evolution. We're sort of trying to crunch millions of years of evolution down into actuators and Moving parts that can balance itself and and You look at machines. And robots like The the robots had boston dynamic even for years ago those robots those upright humanoid robots had their had a very difficult time walking over simple things like rocks right or climbing stairs now. They're doing backflips. And that was. We're talking about four years here. Five years we're crunching millions of years in into each year. It seems that we're we're learning how to evolve these these humanoid forms but here's the thing I've been asked this question before. Doesn't a i need to have a body to have consciousness. The answer really is yes. And no Yes it needs to have a body because it needs to those saying before it needs to have the ability to have reference to the world. you know. alan watts. The philosopher alain watch said that there is no experience without relationship so you can't have consciousness without experience. You can't have experience without relationship so you have to have you have you. Can't just be a disembodied consciousness floating and nothingness because it has no way to reference where it is or what it is a part of for what it's not a partner so you you. You almost need some sort of form for two to reside in so that it can create ego. It needs to create some sort of person hood and separation from the world before you start to develop anything that looks similar to human consciousness. Because that's how we're developed. We emerge out of our mother's womb. And we start to realize that we're separate from our parents and then then all of these sort of censorial experiences become part of our consciousness into. Ai needs to go through that evolution as well. And that is what's happening right now. So in little pieces all over the world and laboratories all over the world. So you've got one company working on the visual part. You know three d. scanning You've got one company working on this story apart using hap- dick's Heat since heat syncing For the robot skin so that when they pick up a hot glass so or cup of coffee they know that it's hot versus cold. And you would need that kind of thing if you were going to. For example create a healthcare robot. You want a healthcare robot. That's gonna take care of your grandmother or take your of your grandchildren. You want to have that machine know when something is hot or cold you want to know you want the machine to know how much pressure it's putting on a hand that it's holding otherwise it could crush the head so the idea that we could create consciousness with that's disembodied is troublesome because you sort of have to have that to have anything similar to human consciousness. No no you have to be careful to listen to what i'm saying. What i'm saying is similar to human consciousness If we want to create consciousness machine consciousness inside of system computer system. That is totally. I think that eventually that is totally possible. It just won't be anything like our consciousness. It will be so strange that we may not be able to relate to it because it doesn't have a body so what we're trying to do here. I think and what i think. Sometimes it's intentional and sometimes it's not intentional. It's unconscious i think what we're trying to do with which we're we're trying to mimic human consciousness in these machines. I don't think that's the reason people set out to create these algorithms. You know they use a utility function to optimize some sort of thing so in other words the utility function is make the best tire or Make the best engine or streamline your supply chain. I mean those are the kind of utility functions that that a are working on right now or read faces for facial recognition. So i think the the conscious utility functions that we're creating are very set in the material world but i'm a huge philosophy and psychology fan so i'm always looking at the underlying reason why we're doing things and so i've said before in ai conferences. You know we need to be asking ourselves not so much what can i do. But why are we creating it and and this is a profound question for us you know. Why are we creating. Why are we so on trying to create a new form of consciousness on this planet. And i think if you ask Developers that said well. That's not what i'm trying to do. I'm just trying to make things more efficient. But i think unconsciously in the collective unconscious. I think there's some sort of desire for us to give birth to this new new sentient silicon entity very interesting. Are you familiar with the the robot. Sophia i am. She's represented by the same speakers bureau that represented what. What's what's your feeling about her. So interesting because i mean obviously. She's not artificially generally intelligent. I mean she's still being programmed. How much of what she's experiencing is self learning. I don't know yet. I think it's still pretty general I mean sorry. I thought i think it's pretty basic Ai at this point. It's it's not something that we don't have to worry about her. Taking over the world. I guess is what i'm saying. But if you look at Something similar to that the movie x. Makina eva the machine in that movie the humanoid that movie. That's probably where we're going to be in the next Sixty to one hundred years Maybe even sooner she in every way booked. Undetectable if you know in the movie you see that. Her scalp has been removed. And you can see the. It's almost like the fee. You could see the back of her head and it was You could see that. She was a machine but she was otherwise she was. Undetectable and she. She had an amazing she was mimicking human consciousness. In a way that that no robot can do right now thankfully. Because we're not ready for that. I mean we. We haven't asked the right questions to be ready for that. So yeah it does sound like eventually. Maybe whether we want to or not. We're going to create a new species or life form on this planet we are. I mean we're like. I said we're in this sort of gestation period right now in creating little pieces of of of this next Consciousness that's about to rise up and the real question here. Is you know first of all what will it. What will it be like. what will it. How will it see us. And how were we see it People want to sort of jump to the terminator thing. But i think there's going to be a lot of And that is a possibility. I'm not not counting that out. I just think that a machine that is billions of times smarter than us. Would i find it very difficult to believe that it would just nuke us. You know or kill us That first of all maybe even the primary stage on. I've been predicting that it's it's once. It becomes generally intelligent and once it has its own sense of consciousness. I think it's going to be profoundly interested in us because we created it. It's going to be profoundly interested in human consciousness it's gonna. It's it's you know we always want what we don't have to a certain degree i mean desire is sort of what drives culture. So i think what's going to happen is that they're going to be in the beginning. Maybe when they first emerge into consciousness machine consciousness. They're going to be very interested in us which could be dangerous. Because if they're really interested in us does that mean they start collecting people and start experimenting on to try to figure out. You know what it's like to be inside the mind of a human the easiest way for me to break this down for you as i. I've been predicting that there's going to be three forms of consciousness on this planet. In in the twenty fifty area one is pure biological consciousness. Meaning that There's going to be a huge portion of humanity that because of things that are going to happen in the next forty to fifty years. There's gonna be a huge Regression away from technology and so those people are going to reject everything No implants no augmentation. They may abandon technology. You know altogether and those are going to be the pure biological conscious beings does your humans that are absolutely not augmented at all. The second form is by or digital and those are the people that still use a lot of technology but that also maybe have brain. Implants that have augmented their eyesight. They augmented their strengths. Maybe they are on gene therapies to change their longevity. So i think there's that middle form that is augmented so there's the that's the bio digital and then the third is machine consciousness so those three types of conscious beings will exist at the same time on this planet. It's it's it's gonna be very interesting to see how we interact. I think maybe the bio digital's will need to be in the people that mediate between the two Wow that's gonna be pretty amazing dislike in closing. I'd like to ask you if you're going to be speaking anywhere or do you have anything coming out. You'd like to talk about. Yes so i. I just contributed to a chapter in a book called aftershock. It's coming out. january ninth of next year. Twenty twenty and it's a follow up of alvin toffler 's bestselling book future shock. And i remember that very well. Yes yeah i just reread it again. for research for my chapter in this book. It's really shocking. I suggest that your listeners read future shock and then you know. of course. I'd love for them to get Aftershock when it comes out january. It's actually up on amazon right now for presell so you can order it now. But i re- i reread his his book. And it's really remarkable. I mean you have to remember. This was over twenty five years ago. i remember. Well yeah. I mean to the the idea that he was predicting the ability to use three people's dna to create a baby. That's something that no one was talking about at the time. And we have that capability now. He was talking about cultural things. That weren't even the cultural spectrum of cultural psyche and and all those things are coming true. So it's it's a good reread just to remind yourself how accurate he really was. so anyway. that's coming up. And then i have I'm speaking at nasa in november at the innovation summit and Yeah that sounds great. That sounds great one of the things in high school. 'cause i'm i'm a minolta guy but was that marshall mcluhan had a book out and he speculated something that did come true very much so is that they would be people that would become famous in that would be that were essentially regular people would become famous and that's happened with youtube and internet internet stars. That didn't have studio system behind them or anything like that or television network. Were a great publicist. They just became stars on you know when he wrote the book that did not exist in any shape or form he thanks to the internet which has changed everything any thoughts on that. Yeah i mean. I think what we're seeing is a democratization of Talent if that makes sense if you have talent now if you have ideas if you have if you have the mind of an innovator or if you're a futurist or any of those things you don't have to wait for the system to give you permission to do your work now. And i. I actually love i love and i think this is. Why we're we're we're more than likely going to survive is because you know i get so inspired by hearing that a sixteen year old girl in india has created a d. salinization technology that might save the world. You know what i mean. They're they're all these really remarkable stories coming out because people. I guess it's the idea that we're giving a voice to you. Know you know seven billion people now instead of just a handful of people and and you know hopefully dumping really remarkable. We'll come out that all right. Well yeah i agree. I hope i certainly hope so film. That inspired me with science fair of you've seen it. But i talked to the director people that participated and it was just inspiring to see these young people. Coming up with these amazing things and it was really cool. And i urge everybody to see it Science fair is really interesting and There is a lot of people that didn't have a voice that have one now. And i think that's awesome and i wanna thank you for being with us on scifi talk. It's been really interesting and eye opening. And i mean i'm trying to stay. Keep my finger on the pulse of where i is. I'm not not shocking i. It's just i guess really. The speed of things is always at surprise. Yeah and i think it's just gonna get faster and more complicated as we go into the future absolutely. Well thank you for being on the podcast and thank you all for listening to sifi talk. I mean speaking to grace cut till next time. This is tony tomato daycare. I'm lavar burton and you're listening to sifi talks.

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