3 Episode results for "Todd Cooper"
Motor1 On One Interview: Master Car Detailer Todd Cooperider
"It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and relief with active OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil welcome to motor one on one I'm bucket Andrew Sponge and perform this ritual that so many of us enjoy with our cards dollar exotics and hypercard instead of a driveway he uses his own Immaculate Facility crain's new detailers to do what he does meet Todd Cooper rider founder of esoteric do for a long time going back to my days at auto blog and kind of the early an F. Forty I couldn't guarantee but I that's what I that's what pops up in my head when I think on auto blog at the time people loved the video and you and I have kept in touch and what it was back then and what you've kind of grown up to become it's definitely than it was back then those two yeah and that I was the only kid in the neighborhood whose BMX bike was at At a pretty high level but I always kept detailing as you know similar story to a lot of detailers next thing you know friends and neighbors so in in that's what in me as a consumer was was looking for come home on the weekend work on one car documented go travel oh week of years later where we're at now we've got a team of a dozen for about seven and a half years now we've got Three distinct are the exclusive importer for a lot of different brands out there so anybody in when and have trained students from a dozen different countries around the you know vision of the company and where we wanted to take it the customer can you tell me if I'm let's say I'm a wealthy person and I've just invested a been is right right from the factory so and I ask this because one thing you and hasn't seen the light of day doesn't mean that the paint job the automaker gave it first one John if you were billionaire and you get yourself a new car or one coming in you know we talked to them about their wants and needs and expectations all of the defects that come from the factory and it's not a knock against the factories necessarily about going in doing all the correction a law Ferrari for instance a perfect level and to bring it to a higher level than any factory could ever do there's no way they can the protection of it so we can talk in terms of paint protection film to an area you try to get a section repainted try to get it match you lose value in thing that you would want to do yourself something that we need to do for you in some cases wants and needs are that's actually another part of Your Business I found interesting kind of drove you up I think you've got drove up drove you up to to Cleveland and you give me a call on they'll fly you anywhere in the world to work on their cars you know in their own garage malls or on a regular basis you know there's usually semi trucks pulling up a couple of times a week but if you're a collector are in and you bring a crew of people to work on the entire collection and ability that he has got is just so over the top so beautiful such we go heavy level on them and then we go in for maintaining What ten years ago whatever when when you and I kind of met that car represented Mer was a very successful person about forty years old had about a dozen Ferraris Do you think I've lost my mind he just laughed and he said well the only thing that you're going to regret is you didn't the garage in my house so that worked out but also that article that I wrote talking about our responsibility for preservation of those vehicles you know it's going to be leftover and he'll even say today that was the deciding lying down not did ask if we're interested the he'd made up his mind oh wow so then so about eleven times since then and you know he treats us like absolute in their favorite thing that's their cars so for customers like that in a lot samples of those cars they can possibly get whether they're driven or not I that could have such an immediate impact on like value and the impression the car makes mirror finished but the richness and the depth and and and you didn't even know Lustre Day are until they're brought to their full potential yeah exactly and that's one thing as we put that car through into bring out its its true potential out of the box but you bring in somebody who's a professional at calibrating do the same thing with the paint finish you know we've got a four thousand dollar gauge so we're doing it it's not subjective we sit back put her thumbs up in the air says yet looks great as we possibly can a lot goes into it but yeah when you look at it afterwards you're on twitter facebook yeah and you know the difference in that thing you like wild this thing looks really really amazing so regardless of the car regardless you can connect you with my guy thank you thank you definitely after the show for people it's like it looks like the inside of a cathedral like a gothic wooden cathedral a like in the lifted up a little in the back and a and look at it it's it's a big it's a big tower to almost it's stunning and and the facility I mean I've been going there so many years stonework and castle door manufacturers and woodwork it's so over the top so it's not like you know leads me to another thing that I've always liked about what you do is that like you like aside from defined you because you know working on auto love we're looking for content that's interesting content and sometimes it's just for the before an aftershock effect how to use some of these products that that we endorse and sell the right way so early days you know I I wanted to to subscribe to the old adage of out which information to know what I'm doing is I'm educating people out there on I've been looking up and yeah Ferrari has the same thing next thing you know we're a lot of videos which we done about three hundred videos the now we have a marketing team of three people dedicated just for marketing the end for that kind of information and that kind of education is is huge in it it's are are how to how to apply glass coding to your car and how to use a DA rotary buffer really cool so another thing I having known spot a Tesla model three for my wife and I email was to you asking so big upgrade for her that's great but the we didn't get anything done to the Kia soul and like the you and I was like what should we do and you said you know definitely yet and I apologize I did not bring my card onto you you recommended a great a in front you know face shots and then I got the ceramic coating over the whole thing yeah I gotTa Tell You I've never I've never like like handled touched or like one wipe completely off like everything just kind of slides off this car the the difference is is visible to me on how much better it looks than when I picked the early adopters of coatings when they started coming into the United States coatings are in if you think of a wax seal it that can last you four to six months at you can only like machine Polish them off and what they're designed to do is their design Stephen GonNa hit him with a hose or something in the water kind of falls off on it in that's detract as like myself that helps the whole process l. out there and do it yourself at home well we sell products Taylor's in there saying unrealistic terms as far as how durable you know get that they're going to be disappointed but like you you talked about the looks we do we do a lot of daily drivers somebody by Tesla's we do a the the rocker panels and apply the coatings to the rest of it the paint the windshield the wheels Oh yeah the detailing protection industry has definitely shifted it'd be you take a vehicle that's been properly in a protected maintain look beat up for sure I let me tell you what happened in my wife's going to kill me for is is very small and this is a longer vehicle than the soul and and she's got a mic a this is a very it's a multi point turn and and she scraped the the rap and in Gouge the paint on the front bumper so we're we're APP can prevent smaller kind of Knicks and in rock chefs and things like that Dan we're GONNA have to go back and get that recode again so that's yeah you you definitely you definitely can you know here's the Nice thing in some cases the paint is still in great shape underneath and then appeal the film the film in particular made the damage a lot less than it otherwise would have would have been eight otherwise so yeah that's definitely good yeah exactly we we had a customer a real quick search that car beautiful car and it was the first car that he did a full wrap on that that's a significant up his car and he said you know it just made him sick we peeled off the film we did a painless a debt repair two thousand bucks to get it fixed but he said that was the best money he's ever spent on his of it removed replace a painless debt repair but it was far less invasive and exactly exactly and going back to when you were talking about now in the or whatever but I I'm definitely a person who believes you get what you pay for and that's why I I'm much happier to pay the money and invest in the car her myself yeah yeah that's for sure I in particular when it comes to film film is also one of those things that you know if you get a cheap if you pay you haven't done right it's very very difficult to see that so light marring and stuff like that it once it hits the the sunshine and heat it heals itself Paul doing film installation the right way and it is witchcraft so you know pay the guy down the street two hundred dollars out of his garage yeah no that's definitely Bugatti Sheron to nine elevens to Tesla's or whatever else you too like you said get a two dimensional flat piece of film to so let's go back to something you mentioned earlier and again this is something uh-huh and really high end stuff that I remember the way you put it to me back in the day why that is and again and again it's not to disparage Ferrari but but you mentioned that it's these I'm really talking more about the finishing of it so if in any processes afterwards they're not touching it with machine it's not being go into the small manufacturers they're doing things like you know putting heavy things go bad in that finishing process because they leave sanding process they're using techniques and tools and equipment from twenty call us holograms when it's done with a rotary machine and you just look problems and that's what we have to go in and fix we're six here in the driveway and once I get them they look good they might have a couple of little scoffs Ferraris and Lamborghinis even the bodies Aston Martin's custom color did you get co custom stripes because it goes to a secondary there's on optional paint job with Ferrari and that means we're going to have to spend that much new Ferrari four hundred eight because it's very nice and flat based off of what they've done is out of Milan Italy so they're right next door yeah that's job security job security for us and I should be sending Christmas baskets it's a Pagani that they're not cranking that many things through there's just going to on and I can almost walk you through the production process as I'm looking at the car to multimillions of dollars and may not have the best paint job in May need this attention you bought a car that may be the best at a certain thing like a top speed or attract time with ownership that goes into these things and look I I also a part of our L. each other if you're GONNA if you're buying your first Ferrari if you're getting into this culture can get at those cars as you talk about cost of ownership and just being part of the deal like and if they want to get you know their ultimate new car prep with polishing front that are coming in quarter million four hundred five hundred thousand dollars that sometimes so in the grand scheme of things it's it's not that bad and it's just one of of the your local auto glass company and repair ship in the windshield of collectors and owners and enthusiasts said and five thousand ten thousand fifteen thousand dollars I usually want to protect that investment and so this isn't just dropping money nothing in
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You get ten percent off your first month by going to better help DOT COM SLASH DE L. NBC. Talk about shutters going down your spine. Crime like this doesn't happen. This was just a lightning bolt. Twos foundling face down a large amount of blood. What does this scene tell you? What do your victims tell you? You got up killer lose here. Who's specifically targeting people? Yeah this doctor's House. Somebody's after those doctors. Four people are dead because somebody's vengeance revenge. That's your motive thermo. It sent shockwaves right away. Where she goes. What's HE GONNA do? You want real life. God what the Hell do we have here? Winter on the Great Plains can be long bleak and brutal so in March when winter briefly releases its grip for a day or two. Even the trees seem to raise their limbs in celebration March thirteenth. Two thousand eight was one of those days of cautious jubilation in Omaha Nebraska sixty one degrees and a light velvety breeds. Eleven year old. Tom Hunter wore shorts and a tee shirt to school that Thursday. It was a little after three when Tom seen here on. A security camera. Got Off the bus in the leafy Dundee neighborhood and headed home to play video games as he did nearly every day. It would be hours before. Tom's father returned home but the house was not empty. Fifty seven year old Shirley Sherman who scrubbed and Polish. The hunter home on Thursdays was still there by sunset. Both Tom Hunter and Shirley Sherman would be dead murdered by killer. Who was just getting started? Who DID IT and why we're questions? That would eventually take Omaha. Detectives all over North America and would take more than five years to answer. This one stood out. Obviously because of the brutality for one detective Derek. Moyes was working three to eleven that day. The nine one one call came in from Tom. Hunters Dad Dr William Hunter. Dr Hunter had come home found Shirley Sherman and his son deceased would call nine one one thing unusual pickle. There wasn't a lot of emotion shown but he is a doctor. He has a pathologist and he's seen a lot of deadly seen a lot of death and it was I think to use the word. Clinical the detective and his partner were immediately dispatched to the hunters stately home in. Dundy part of them. It is it's It's an older neighborhood. Middled upper class homes very quiet. It's not a place where we have. A lot of. Violent crime occur in our city even now. Detective Moi still remembers the Capri set of blood. That hit him when he stepped across the threshold of the hunter home. There's a heavy metallic kind of humidity in the air of almost you feel it. It's presence and there's a lot of it and there was a lot of it at the hunter household to the left of the front door in the dining room off the main hallway. Lay the body of the boy com hunter lying on his face. His hands down at his side. There's a fair amount of blood round his head and down the hall the body of the housekeeper. Surely Sherman choose found lying face down large amount of belied underneath her stainless steel handled on kitchen. Knife protruding from the right side of her neck. Both victims had been killed in the same way and oddly enough there were no signs of struggle. No fingerprints no bloody footprints. Is this person. Careful or just very lucky. Could be both you know it. It's not like TV. Not every crime scenes going to yield fingerprints. Not every crime scene is going to yield. Dna or trace hairs or those types of things. Stolen didn't appear to be no in fact the only things out of place were the knives. The knives came from inside the house. He did unusual for a killer to show up planning to do murder and also planning to find the murder weapon at the crime scene. Not necessarily by all accounts. Dr Hunter was still in a state of shock when police took him downtown for questioning right there in the hallway between the back door so the first thing. I think I yelled out off. Do you have any idea who and why somebody would do? Sometimes honestly I've been just racking my brain peaceful. It's almost Dr William. Hunter known as Bill to friends and colleagues ran the pathology residency program at nearby Creighton University. His wife Claire also doctorate. Creighton was in Hawaii that day attending a conference. Her husband had to break the awful news to her from the police station. How's your wife crushed? She GonNa be okay. She has a workmate. So she's not. The hunters had four boys to Rome one in college and Tom. Jeff a student at the University of Nebraska in Lincoln at the time lived closest. He says it was about eight o'clock that night when he happened to check his phone calls from friends family so I said he something was up and we can get a hold of. My Dad. Couldn't get home. My mom one of my friends called me and he told me to call my brother. Was your older brother. Yeah what did he say it happened? Just somebody killed. Tom And I need to go find. My Dad talked to my dad. Get a long drive. It's like forty five minutes. Those miles between Lincoln and Omaha seemed longer than usual that night. It's hard for Jeff to remember exactly what happened when he got home. Who told him what or when that whole thing is a blur. I didn't sleep at all that night. You you're constantly trying to figure out what's going on. You lived in that same house which is all happened right yes whole life now Jeff. Mind was filled with thoughts of what had happened there and of his brother. Tom Who was eight years younger his counter. Smart out he has grown up with three other brothers. He is a smart kid he knew a lot and he just. I mean he always had something to say for everything. What was he doing life? Then he went to science magnet middle school elementary combined with the Middle School. And he really like Sci. He's always outside plan so that was his big thing Gamer wasn't he? He was but more times than not he'd be outside with neighborhood kids but it wasn't the neighborhood kids that fascinated the COPs com had a lot of friends. He'd never actually met in real life. They were people he knew. From the anonymous world of online gaming. It was those relationships that detectives wanted to know more about the investigation begins. Does he play around on chat rooms or anything like that might be nervous about curious conversations online? He interacted with people all over the US. A mysterious stranger and another murder. Where would this winding trail of clues lead crime like this doesn't happen in Dundee? It sent shockwaves right away. The Hunter House was dearly still when detectives arrived the only sound music from a video game in the basement which seemed to add a haunting soundtrack to the violent and disturbing scene. It had appeared that Thomas was in process of playing online game on his xbox could see pop and chips in front of a chair right front of the TV. Probably like a lot of kids after school every day and the game itself had timed out with the music was playing kind of ominously in the background during Bill Hunters interview with police investigators. They got straight to the point. Does he play around on chat rooms or anything like that that you might be service. Vital I don't know he's on his the only chat room. No He's on is why they'll Ville it. Turns out is a popular online game and chat room. That attracts preteens not wasn't all Tom's xbox which allowed him to play and speak to other gamers online was a concern detectors. Wondered if Tom might have inadvertently come into contact with an Internet Predator. We knew that he had a number of contacts and friends online through not only his xbox but his personal computer so those people are essentially in many cases anonymous to some extent. Yeah they are so they might be kids. They might just be saying their kids correct. And that's what we would come to find out that he interacted with people all over the US in some cases outside of the US through these interactive sites. Did you or anybody in your family ever worried that Tommy was meeting people online or just talking to people online through the gaming community people. Maybe you didn't know about that. Didn't really come up till after the fact restarted thinking. Maybe that was something that could happen. But prior to know and you didn't know those war and he didn't either. No detectives determined. Tom Hotter had interacted with close to fifty people online on a regular basis. Thomas was eleven years old that he disclosed that in his gaming activities. Now in fact in some instances We would come to find out that he portrayed himself as somebody. Who's older which in turn could end up playing into this absolutely it would take months to track down. Tom's online contacts more pressing was what detectives were hearing from. The neighbors. Several said they'd seen a stranger walking near the hunter home late. That afternoon told me what the person neighbors described all of complected male. Who was heavy set dressed in a collared shirt? Some describe a jacket possibly like an ill fitting suit with a shoulder bag and several people would correlate that individual to a silver Honda CR V. notify the actual make of car. Yes that all seems pretty helpful. Very the same individuals would describe that that vehicle was missing front play but they would describe the rear plate as kind of a white background with dark lettering and kind of describe a multiple colored sunset or kind of a Pastel sunset so it's not Nebraska play out of state. What are our feeling was yes. Based on neighbors. Descriptions police produced sketch and four days after the murders. Ask the public for help. We received hundreds of phone calls about people. Knowing somebody that resembled that sketch and each one of those leads had to be given some degree of consideration. Reporter Todd Cooper covered the story for the Omaha World Herald. Dundee is a nice neighborhood and Oma. That's an affluent area Doctors and others not mansions but stately homes crime like this doesn't happen in Dundee and so it sent shockwaves right away. More depth about the computer use while the murders in done deed dominated the news. Investigators were taking a second look at a less publicized. Crime months earlier there had been another murder not far from Dundee in this one an elderly female had been bludgeoned and stabbed in the neck. We had knives that were used from her residence in her murder so we had similarities in that weapons were taken from her home in used against her and left the scene. But you have somebody who liked that. The detectives at investigated that case that identify a suspect very early on somebody who has a family member of hers whom she had had a falling out with. Didn't seem to have any connection with honors none whatsoever. There comes a time in every homicide investigation. Were detectives have to focus on the victim's family and friends as far as detectives knew the hunters were a well respected family. And then come out about the hundreds that you didn't know gambling problems family problems now. There wasn't some gigantic ghost in the closet. That made us think. Oh well there is our motive right there. Nothing like down since bill and Claire. Hundred were both doctors at Creighton. He pathologist Shia cardiologists. Detectives wondered if someone at the hospital might have had a motive to harm them having hated. H- all right on our own Eugene. Not everyone handles grief differently. After their youngest son was murdered in their home the hunters seem to want nothing more than to be left alone but kind of a private family so not too keen on talking with media on the other hand the family of Surely Sherman the other Dundee victim desperately wanted to keep the case in the public. We want velocity. You really wanted us to be solved. Halio they have their own ideas about who the killer might be the more they talked. The more detectives wondered if perhaps Surely Sherman and actually been the intended target a secret in the Sherman family. She hated because of what he had been doing to me. The new person of interest immediately. There's a buzz. Could it be like credit? Have been him as a building contractor. Brad Wait spends a lot of time in his truck. He's haunted by the possibility that at the very moment his sister Shirley Sherman was being murdered in March. Two Thousand Eight. He was driving by close enough. Perhaps to have heard her scream. I basically almost drove by hunters. House would've been four o'clock that afternoon. I had no idea Shirley was working there that day. March there later that night brand says he heard about the two murders in Dundee on the ten o'clock news even then. He says he didn't know his sister was a victim. That news came later in a phone call from his brother. Dan Danny Call. Let thirty that night and told me what happened. Then Wade says that from that night on the word housekeeper has been used as shorthand for surely as if her job to find her. They're always calling her the housekeeper and it's she was only there for a couple of hours every couple of weeks or a week to her brothers. Dan and Brand Shirley was big SIS. The family glue after their parents divorced when they were young. She was the one that organized everything she would call you before. Somebody's birthday and say you know it's someone's birthday Thursday or or she would get everybody to go in on gifts and our she would help the shopping and that aspect of it is. You just don't realize it until it's gone for sure. Children Kelly and Jeff. She was the single mom who often worked two jobs and stretched every dollar to make ends meet. We were one of the poorest families in the neighborhood Bartending in the evening cleaned houses during the day. Gardening was her specialty. You grow everything. Eggplant tomatoes of five different varieties. Feeding me was probably expensive. So she'd make her own spaghetti sauce. She she kanner on. Cucumbers made pickles out of them. After a lifetime of hard work in her hands and knees Jevon Kelly say their mom had cut back the hunters were among the few clients. She had left so she wanted to clean. Just a couple houses ever allow her to pick up the grandkids from school in the afternoons and spend time with them spending time with the grandkids. It turns out was relatively easy to do the right next door to me every day. Talk me into buying this house. She could see. Her grandchildren. Situation was convenient but Kelly says it was hard to have any privacy who mother knew everything bouquet went and who stayed the night and now the plot thickens. I was dating a married guy. Let me guess. Your mom didn't approve. No not at all. We had an explosive relationship meaning. Meaning things got broke. Kelly says that relationship became so tempestuous so difficult that surely got involved and actively tried to keep the boyfriend away at one point in time. She was thinking about getting a restraining order. I mainly for my daughter Sake. She would tell me not. He can't come over and I would come in one time. She can walk around my house with the hammer in her hand. Saying I want his blood on Amer. She hated him that bad because of what he'd been doing to me in spite of that Kelly stuck with the man got pregnant and had a baby with it. They got uglier from there. She actually started the process of getting my house out of my name so that she could keep him out of the house right after surely died would have been very private and embarrassing family feud became fodder for public speculation. Todd Cooper the reporter says that starting on Day One. Shelly's boyfriend was a person of interest immediately. The name of the boyfriend of Shirley Sherman's Daughter came up. There's a buzz. Could it be him like could it have been in? His name. Came up again and again a doctor. Under the microscope he had had some trouble during his time at Creighton University. He was just a little bit more boisterous by late spring. Two thousand eight two months after the murders in Dundee detectives had powered through and eliminated nearly all of their early leads in that case. The boyfriend of Shirley's daughter. The man who looked like such a good suspect on paper seem to have a solid alibi. According to timesheets he was working at the time of the murders fairly cooperative. And I think we're comfortable putting him aside and we didn't have anything that would lead us to believe that he would know where she was that day and that he was in that area on the date that those crimes occurred the composite sketch generated leads and exactly zero suspects. There wasn't anything that you could correlate to actual perpetrator or the crime scene. That day as for Tom Hunters Online gaming contacts detectives deciphered the IP addresses and anonymous screen names and tracked down those people and as far as you knew he'd never met any of those people in real life correct turns out. None of those online contacts was anywhere near Omaha on the day of the murders. Detectives were making progress but reporter. Todd Cooper says the nervous citizens of Omaha had no way of knowing that all good police departments are pretty good at keeping that information close to the vest. We just kept waiting in waiting. That question was foremost on. Everybody's mind who could have done this. Detective return to the theory that either Dr Bill Hunter or his wife Dr Clare. Hunter might have been the intended victim between the two of them. They figured bill hunters position at Creighton. Made him the more likely target. He's basically oversaw. All the students that were going through this pathology training program at Creighton University. And if there was disciplinary action to take he would be the individual among others. You know to have a direct impact on those students wise so potentially a lot of suspects. They're potentially yes so. The detective went to the Pathology Department at Creighton and started asking questions. Were there any individuals interacting with these folks? At the time this occurred that you believe could be responsible for whatever reason? If there's a potential motive what do you think it might be? The detective says one name kept coming up. Dr Michael Belenky. How many times you hear the name Michael Bowling? You can't give you an accurate answers. How many but his name came up again and again Dr Belenky was a former resident. Who left the pathology program and threatened to sue Creighton a year before the murders Dr Honors home. He had had some trouble during his time at Creighton University but they weren't unlike other people's troubles but he was just a little bit more boisterous about his. I guess his perceive treatment by Creighton University in some of the staff there. Blinky told detectives he'd been working in Pittsburgh on the day of the Dundee murders Pittsburgh's like nine hundred miles from Omaha. Sorry you're not driving that in a correct presumably. You're not doing that without air. Travel right and air travel something you can check right but we knew he was on the schedule. I believe we knew he had logged into his email account at that facility that day but nobody actually saw him at work right. There is nothing to show. He was anywhere other than there which is not an ironclad alibi. But it's not bad. It's not bad men. Sometimes that's just the reality of our work that seemed to be the end of the line doctor. Blinky had been the investigators last best lead unwilling to see the case go coal surely. Sherman's family pooled their money and offered a there are a number contribution. I think people contributing as well which made it. How big is fifty fifty and all counting? Everybody's contribution we actually wanted one hundred thousand but they wouldn't allow that because they thought it would be about which it was my opinion when the reward failed to produce a break in the case. They hired a private investigator. Part of the motivation to do on. That was we're GONNA send a signal we're not gonNa let it co- case you saw it becoming a cold case. Well we felt it was becoming that way in the end the private I found nothing. Detectives hadn't already studied and discounted a year after the murders in the case went cold and most of the detectives moved on to other things. But for the families of Shirley Sherman and Tom Hunter. There could be no moving off. How'd you see your Dad Change? And it wasn't like he was depressed all the time and he was himself. Just there is obviously something kind of like you can always see behind. Someone's is that there's something there and I think we all had that five dreadful. Anniversaries came and went the dead were still inexplicably dead and the case was still unsolved but through it all the detective says he stayed in touch with the hundred Sherman families. You kind of hear their frustrations when they call and they want updates and they want to be kind of kept in the loop but is investigators you kinda. You can't give them what they're looking for answers from you that you can't give them for you guys to because. I'm sure you WANNA keep working on this. Meanwhile your boss is saying here's another case and another one and another one and that's why it went to the cold case unit and that's how it stayed until. May of two thousand thirteen. The breakthrough moment came in brutal for yet another double homicide in Omaha for detectives who'd been at the hunter home five years earlier. This one felt uncomfortable. Familiar was like oh my gosh this is this could very easily be related to the Dundee homicides. This was just a lightning bolt had the elusive dundee. Killer struck again. This is the same guy is this is the same perpetrator. Yes the piano. Movers were suspicious. Their work orders said they were supposed to make a pickup at this house in West Omaha on Tuesday morning may fourteenth two thousand thirteen but no one was home but when they went to the front door They observed at the front security door was open slightly and one of the movers noted Stainless Steel Handgun magazine lying in the doorway and they felt that was so some concern since they weren't getting any answer from residents to contact nine one one when detective boys and his partner stepped inside. They found the body of an older man on the floor. The victim had multiple gunshot wounds and a deep stab wound to the right side of his neck off to the left. You could see the female victim lying in the living room a large area of blood. It was very clear that there had been a struggle there from all of the blood that was apparent and where it was located on the walls and so forth her arms and hands were covered with defensive wounds and there was a deep gash on the right side of her neck beside her late. Two kitchen knives for Derek Moist his partner. It was a jolt of electricity and a big hit of Deja Vu. We're like this is something here we have. You know would seem connection. This is the same guy. This is the same perpetrator yes? That's a pretty big moment. It was very just as before nothing was stolen and the killer left no fingerprints or bloody footprints behind but these victims had obviously put up a fight. The additional gun parts found near the front door and the nine millimeter gun clip with nine bullets. Remaining seemed to be proof of that. What do you make of the gun? Parts in the doorway. What it told me was that there had been a struggle for that gun. Why would that magazine be objected from the gun? That shouldn't happen in the course of normal firing a handgun. But it makes sense if you're struggling over that gun. This is not a faulty got. This is a fight over two so it was a violent struggle of violent encounter. The victims looked as if they'd been dead for a day or two detectives still didn't know who they were but as they stepped outside headquarters called. One of our sergeants is doing research on who the homeowners to that location where she had identified Roger Brownback Dr Creighton University and was employed within the pathology department. So now we have a second victim from the same office in the same specific pathology training program that we had in the two thousand eight days. The Brumberg would have been a colleague of Dr Hunter. Yes no question known. Each other no question. It had been more than five years since the killings in Dundee but the CREIGHTON connection was lost on no one least of all the families of the two thousand eight victims. Surely Sherman and Tom Hunter. We saw it on the news. People say you know that was. Dr Raj Raj. Brownback was headed. The pathology department creating universal. Whoa recognized that name right away. And the fact that was another pathologist from creighton killed with the knife automatically assumed it was related. Roger Bromberg wasn't any pathologist. He was head of the Department he and Mary. Brownback were both sixty five in researching their final hours reporter. Todd Cooper learned. The couple had last been heard from at about two PM on Mother's Day. One of the first things we found out about was the facetime conversation between both boombox and their daughter and they were roaring with laughter at one point so much that the daughter took a screen shot of the conversation. That's the kind of stuff that humanizes this that makes it. You realize that this was just a lightning bolt in the middle of an otherwise normal. Mother's Day Carol. Brumbach Roger Sister also spoke with her brother that afternoon then two days later a family member broke the awful news. Well he said Roger. Mary were murdered. And I said I I. So when you talk about me. So they were. Murdered will gruesome Euroland. And now I had no idea. I have no idea what had happened. Carol couldn't imagine who might want to kill her brother although well off. She says he and Mary had lived modestly so tell me about his marriage to Mary. I just kind of knew that that was a match made in heaven. They're absolutely happy. I mean married. Just she did everything. She did a lot of editing for lottery. Rogers publications shortly before the murders. Roger had announced that he'd be retiring in June he and Mary plan to move back east. In fact that's why the piano movers had come to the House that morning. Now a town known for its steaks and insurance companies was once again buzzing with talk over murder and there was absolutely no doubt at that point who is being targeted. It was chilling just sinking. Feeling of man is struck again. A new an old suspect. She called her office and said are you guys going to need to talk to me again. In the new target we have to crimes and potentially there would've been another was another doctor in the crosshairs. Sometimes detective work is a lot like shooting pool. Play all the angles make the easy ones first and save the money ball. For last. In the keys of the Omaha killings the basic facts stood out like bright balls on a billiard. Take two double homicides. Five years apart. Both in the homes of high-ranking doctors in Creighton University's Pathology Department each victim stabbed through the carotid artery with medical precision. The next question. Well that seemed about as obvious as the ten ball in the side pocket the last best potential suspect in the two thousand eight murders was now top of mind for the two thousand thirteen case. Dr Michael Blankie but get this before. Detectives could get around to looking up. Something truly astonishing happened after the Brownback murders. He called her office because he had heard about the murders. And Said are you guys. GonNa need to talk to me again because you. I don't remember exactly what was said but he made comments. He was glad Dr Brownback was was dead. I'm glad he's dead. He made a comment to that effect. Yes almost sounds like somebody's boasting about this. It could be yeah and again. The same detectives turned right back around and started going through the same process. Let's find out where Doctor Blinky was on mother's Day two thousand thirteen turns out that your Belenky was living in the northwest dividing his time between Vancouver and Washington state at the time of the Brownback murders when detectives reinterviewed him. They wondered if they were missing. Something could their primary person of interest have somehow slipped in an out of all. Maha undetected any indication that he was in Oman. None none for his part. Valenki told the cops he had nothing to do with the Omaha killings. In fact he denies ever saying he was glad. Dr Brownback was dead in the end. Detectives had to scratch Dr Blink off their list back to the drawing board. If the suspect wasn't Michael Belenky detectives figured it had to be someone else with Creighton connections. We knew that we had to look at everybody. In the pathology department all of the staff everybody there that means there are what maybe a thousand couple thousand persons of interest all going in different directions. Yeah four days after the Brownback murders this investigation got one more jolt. Another pathology professor from Creighton reported at around two nine thousand nine. Pm on Mother's Day someone had tried to force their way into her house. Setting off the burglar alarm. Fortunately Dr Chanda beautiful and her husband were out for mother's Day lunch at the time it made that theory of ours even stronger that now we have two crimes and potentially there would have been another. Had they been home? This is what Dr Batra told. Nbc Affiliate W. O. W. T. TV average on. I think have come a week after the brownback murders Omaha police chief. Todd Schneider named a special task force dedicated to solving all four murders. I understand the fear uneasiness in our community right now. I could feel it this morning when I spoke to employees Creighton University and Legion Health Creighton. Hospital cleese no. This law enforcement is doing everything in our power to solve these crimes. That Task Force consisted of homicide detectives agents with the FBI from our local Omaha Office assigned investigators at the Nebraska State patrol. So this is a full court press yes so investigators once again dove into the CREIGHTON personnel files looking for someone else who might have harbored a grudge against doctors. Hunter Brownback and beauty. Tra- you'd already been down this road before and you look back. What a couple of years. Yeah now what was different as we were going to go back and pull the records from. I believe we started in two thousand to two thousand and thirteen. How many of you were sitting there reading files? There were twenty one of US assigned to the Task Force and I think at some juncture almost all of the detectives would get assigned files from Creighton in those personnel files. Were SEVERAL NAMES. That look promising. Those who were nowhere near Omaha on Mother's Day were eliminated but a couple of weeks after the Brownback killings protective voice says his boss handed him a three ring. Binder from two thousand one this one was thicker than the rest and what I took away after reading that file from front to back. Was that in my mind. There is enough information contained in that file that it made a very real possibility that there was a motive to want to harm Dr Hunter. Dr Brownback or Dr Batra by that individual a new name and new fears were more CREIGHTON colleagues in jeopardy. You felt some urgency twin knew that he was a very real danger he had purchased another handgun. As much as I love getting my hair done. 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I don't care what he says. He's not getting high. Everyone is mainly MSNBC correspondent and host of a new podcast into America featuring the journalist NBC. News it's a show about politics about policy and about the power that both had shaping the lives of the American people. The roller coaster is not any easier to stomach now than it was two years ago. Each week we're going into America to tell voters stories. He's doing the best he can for the country. Because we're in concert doesn't mean that we should use. I might vote. You can find new episodes of into America and your feet every Thursday to subscribe search into America. Wherever you are listening right now there is something about the openness of the Nebraska landscape that fosters a feeling of innocence of Simpler Safer Times in. May Two thousand thirteen a double homicide in the home of an Omaha. Dr Changed all of that. It was the second time in five years that a doctor from CREIGHTON. University's Pathology Department had apparently been targeted for murder in two thousand eight. The victims were Dr William Hunters. Eleven year old son Tom and his house cleaner surely Sherman. The latest victims were Dr Roger Brownback and his wife Mary and two Nineteen PM on the day. The brumbies were last known to be alive. Someone had tried to break into the home of a third creighton pathologist Dr Chanda Butuan and of course because of her position again or right back to Creighton University and specifically right back to the training program. We believe that that incident as well could be related. Somebody's going to war against the KRITON. Pathology Department would appear that way. Detective Derek Moist and his team had searched CRAYTON's personnel files will four after the murders in the hunter on. They'd found a fascinating person of interest. Dr Michael Blankie. But he had an alibi and it seemed the. Creighton connection was a dead end now. They looked again and this time they went further back in time and the second time around. From deep in the files of CREIGHTON's pathology department a new name emerged from back in two thousand one Dr Anthony Garcia he'd been a resident in the CREIGHTON pathology program ranked and was dismissed terminated because of unprofessional conduct toward another resident. Dr Brumbach Hunter. Beurre any of them involved in that all of them but his termination letter was signed specifically by Dr Hunter and Dr Brownback before arriving at Creighton it seemed Anthony. Garcia had been well on his way to achieving the American dream from a working class background in southern California. He'd finished medical school and embarked on what should have been a long and lucrative career but then for some reason his life began to be lit in large measure by the bridges burned along the way he'd been dismissed from other residency programs fired from some jobs and several states had denied him a medical license. It would appear that every time that Dr Garcia would apply for place of employment or licensure as a physician in another state Creighton University. Get notification of that because they would get a request to verify doctor. Garcia's time that he had spent their and Creighton would respond usually Dr Comeback or Dr Hotter. Yeah he was here. He was dismissed. He didn't do a good job right. And so that kept coming back to haunt Dr Garcia experience at Creighton. How many times that happened. I want to say at least seven or eight different times. The Moi's professional failure and the need for revenge could be a powerful motive. Now the detective needed to know if Garcia had the means to commit murder he knew Garcia. Now lived in Indiana. So the detective called the Indiana State Police. So in the Indiana state police came back that day and said we have records Dr Garcia purchasing specifically a Smith and Wesson St nine nine millimeter shortly before the Brownback murders. Well obviously that's very significant to us. The magazine you founded the brunt back home would fit a Smith and Wesson Sti. Yeah now he needed to know whether Anthony Garcia was in Omaha on Mother's Day. Two thousand thirteen with little to go on the detective decided to follow the money. I wanted to find out where he had active credit cards and or banking checking account and once again. The detective found an answer. A credit card issued to Anthony Garcia had been used twice in the Omaha area on Mother's Day. Two thousand thirteen. The first charge was at around twelve thirty PM at Casey's general store just outside Omaha. This is store video of Garcia. Buying Beer. The second was two hours later at a chicken. Join in West Omaha. Called who wingstop wingstop is about a mile from Dr Batra Zone. House able to get a receipt for that that showed it at two twenty six. Will I knew that Dr Beatriz alarm on her house had gone off at two nineteen and that was about a mile away from the restaurant. So you're thinking is he tries to get into the house he can't do it. Correct he leaves. Maybe knowing you set off the burglar alarm drives about a mile to this wing restaurant and he makes a purchase and we would come to find out that while he was sitting at that location he was searching for where. Dr Brownback reciting based on those factors. Investigators became convinced. Anthony Garcia. Was there man. You felt some urgency to arrest Dr Garcia quickly. Because we knew that he was a very real danger to anybody that he could have. Perceived had wronged him on some level and we also had learned through the search warrants by the Indiana state police shortly after he returned to Tara after the Brownback homicides that he had purchased another firearm another handgun in July. Two thousand thirteen. Investigators were ready to make their move. One Team of detectives sent to Indiana to arrest Anthony Garcia another flew to California to simultaneously. Search his parents. Oh it was all supposed to be a coordinated operation but on the morning of the plan to arrest the Indiana team suddenly discover their suspect had put them behind the eight ball. Man-hut they're going one hundred miles an hour. A doctor on the run would the man who eluded investigators for five years slip away again two months after Dr Roger Brownback and his wife. Mary were murdered in their Home Omaha. Detectives flew to Indiana ready to make an arrest. Their target was a former CREIGHTON. Med School Resident Dr Anthony Garcia. The detectives had arranged to have a SWAT team and forensic technicians on hand in Terre Haute. When they made the arrest Kersey is home but once their plane landed. That plan changed after we landed in Indianapolis on Sunday afternoon and turn their phones back on. We would observe that all of a sudden. Dr Garcia Cell Phone is no longer and Tara hope and he was mobile and he was traveling South Through Illinois. Which gave us obviously some concern. Because you thought he was headed where we didn't know exactly what was possible that he would return the next day so we kind of put our plans on hold hoping that he would return to his residence and we would affect does arrest at his residence fortunately to FBI agents who've been working with the Task Force were closer Illinois. They eventually found Garcia at a hotel off the interstate. Our hope was that in the morning he would get up and go home and we could grab there but that morning of course When the FBI agent Scott out he again was on the move and headed south. They missed him. They missed him and now he's truly in the wind. Yes reporter Todd Cooper would later learn that for three hours. All agents had to go on. Were Pink every thirty minutes from Garcia cellphone? They're going one hundred miles an hour. The Next Ping comes in a half hour later. And He's behind so now will you turn and we speed back. And they're scanning the southbound lanes and they finally find him tucked in behind a semi. And you know the wave of relief. That must've come over them with the help of Illinois State Troopers Garcia was finally pulled over although it was only eight thirty am. He had a blood alcohol level twice the legal limit. The trooper said that has breath smelled of booze and then when he went to had to relieve himself. That that smell booze as well. Garcia was arrested on the spot for driving under the influence from his car. Police recovered a cell phone. A forty five caliber pistol fifty bullets a crowbar and a sledge hammer. He told COPS later on a road trip. Nora New Orleans but had no luggage and then the most challenging thing to me was in that back seat was an Lsu lab coat and a stethoscope investigators knew Garcia had been fired from lsu shreveport in two thousand eight. Was He on his way to confront doctors. They're only Anthony Garcia knows. He clammed up on Omaha. Detectives tried to talk with him. We introduced ourselves as detectives from the Omaha Police Department and that we were investigating homicides in our jurisdiction and Mr Garcia immediately asked for an attorney. That's it that's it. I mean at that point as an investigator. I can't continue questioning later that afternoon. Omaha police chief. Todd smarter steps before the cameras to the victim making the announcement that his city had been desperately waiting to hear arrested. This morning was Dr Anthony. Joseph Garcia for four counts of first degree murder and use of a weapon to commit the murders for the families of Roger and Mary. Brownback of Tom Hunter. And of Surely Sherman. The arrest was very welcome news. I'm at Walmart with my kids and Danny calls me and they made an arrest in the case and I think I forgot about twenty thirty items on my grocery shopping list because I was real happy and just had one of the carton rushed out of the grocery store and wanted to go home and watch the news with Anthony. Garcia's arrest Jeff. Hunter says he and his parents felt as if they could finally stop looking over their shoulders. I mean for five years. They're super paranoid. 'cause I mean for all we knew for all I always thought about. Was someone still trying to find my dad? Because that's that was always my hunch that someone was after either my mom or dad. Investigators dispatched to Anthony. Garcia's home in Tara. Indiana saw the outward sign posts of success. The house sat on a quiet street with a Ferrari in the drive but inside the house was practically empty bear rooms bear closets and barely any food in the living room. Detectives found a table stacked with financial documents mortgage information and insurance policies. Anthony Garcia was broke. His home facing foreclosure lit appeared to us that he had made some deliberate attempt to kind of lay things out so people could get his affairs in order. And we see those things homicide investigators when you investigate suicides so wherever he was headed when you arrested him maybe that was going to be his last journey anywhere. Those are thought that that was going to be as N. Game in addition to the documents taken from Garcia's home investigators had to go through all the data collected from his electronic devices. Cell phones tablets. Computers it is. I cloud account. You could see from his financial records that he was regularly going to alcohol stores that he was spending a lot of time at gentlemen's clubs in or around tear. Hoedt he was not working regularly so it looked to us. Collectively like his life was was falling apart. Hardly what Garcia's parents had envisioned for their son when he was growing up in southern California. Anthony Garcia's father. Fred worked for the postal service. His mother Stella a nurse had been born in Mexico. It was a proud moment. They told reporters when in nineteen ninety nine. The eldest of their three children graduated from medical school. There's a great poignant moment where Frederick Garcia and Anthony pile his belongings literally has an Radley Old van and drive across the country from California to upper state New York to start his medical career. How proud he must have been at that moment. A what started as the American dream was turning into something unthinkable if convicted of murdering four people Dr Anthony Garcia now forty years old face the death penalty who alleged motive. Revenge forgetting bad job recommendations with my wife got a murder case. We've got to get up and find a center for the kids husband and wife Defense Team Big City lawyers with a few big surprises. There were so many other people with means motive and opportunity. That could have committed this crime as the father of four Bob. Mata appreciates a placid night of slumber. But on Tuesday July sixteenth. Two thousand thirteen. You will up at four am unable to sleep. The Chicago Area Criminal Attorney checked his office voicemail. That's when he saw that someone from California who'd left him a message guy starts out well. Brother got arrested done southern Illinois for Dui. I'm like Dui down there for Dui within the next minute he says but it sounds like with the actually arresting fours murder so then obviously my interest was piqued. It was a stroke of luck. Anthony Garcia's family had been cold calling lawyers looking for someone to defend. Anthony Bob. Montana was the first call back. It was two. Am California time when he got Anthony. Garcia's brother on the fall thirty minutes later Bob. Motta was retained handle his first murder case. I go upstairs awake my wife. Who's my law partner? Allison Mata got a murder case. We've got to get up and go to Jackson County. You got to find a sitter for the kids. When Anthony Garcia's extradition hearing came up the next day the Matas. Mr and Mrs were seated at the defense table your manningly consenting to the authorities from Nebraska to take you back to that state to deal with these charter you understand that. I'm not going to answer any questions. Regards to his State of mind at this point. The modest brought in Bob's father Robert Motta senior as co counsel is back in the the senior. Mata represented a clown turned serial killer named John Wayne guilty. I'd never tried a case with my dad. And he's towards the end of his career. He'd always said to me if you get a juicy murder that give me a call. I'll try with you and I call them half expecting him to be like. Nah I'm too old. I don't want to do it. And he was on board immediately so this ended up being that case that was the case. Right Anthony Garcia insisted. He was innocent but the modest were concerned that extensive press coverage of the murders was giving potential jurors. Only one side of the story. They needed to hear that there were so many other people with means motive and opportunity. That could have committed this crime. That makes much more sense than somebody waiting. Thirteen years to murder somebody that they knew for a very short period of time in pretrial hearings. The modest battled with prosecutors as if they were rival. Mma fighters. Todd Cooper remembers being in the judge's Chambers one day when Bob Modest started shouting at prosecutors there was a hearing where the Matas appeared by telephone. He was shouting screaming. The judge started pounding on the handset. Yelling shut up. Shut up into the into the microphone. I mean that. That's a pretrial hearing we were seen as the Chicago lawyers who came in stormed and our laws. You know. They didn't like us at all. Might it be easier to just list the people in Omaha that you did not offend the feelings when it comes to a death penalty case. Just don't come into play at all. I mean any lawyer that says they're worried about hurting people's feelings when another human being's life is at stake again as you probably get on the business. In the beginning the modern say Anthony Garcia was actively involved in his own defense. They say that changed over. Time as court delays stretched his time in pretrial isolation from months to years lost a lot of weight. And Bob. Mono- says his client's mental health deteriorated the fact that he was in solitary confinement for three years twenty three hours a day. You know mentally no one can withstand that prosecutors who were also concerned about Garcia's mental state asked the judge to order a lengthy psychiatric evaluation in the end Garcia was found competent to stand trial and a date was set for April. Two Thousand Sixteen then. This story took a most unexpected turn Thursday or Friday before that Monday started jury selection Alison Bodice says to US and two local. Tv STATIONS WE HAVE DNA tests. That proved that our guy was not at the hunter. Sherman's seen Allison Mada spook with W. O. W. T. TV via skype and their DNA. Evidence establishes undeniably unmistakably without doubt those murders. Were COMMITTED BY TWO PEOPLE. Not The claim was based on what the Matas believed to be a potential match between some unidentified DNA found on Shirley Sherman's Bandanna and some DNA taken from a suspect in another case. They're taking a liles from DNA. Bits and pieces and coming up with a theory that never made it to trial but she throws it out there on. The eve of trump and prosecutors are incensed and it really chap the judge. The judge took it as a clear attempt to send information to potential jurors that the state's case was suspect as a result. The trial was postponed again and the judge effectively kicked Alison. Mata off the case. The judge denies her application to practice in the state of Nebraska. Very controversial move. It was just I spoke to the public and that put information that could have you know. Been information to potential jurors and that violated the pretrial publicity rule. The matas wanted to fight allison's removal but what their client? Anthony Garcia apparently wanted was trial when the Matas appealed over his objection. Anthony Garcia completely stopped talking with his own lawyers. It deteriorated mentally coming into the trial to extent where he really hadn't. I mean he didn't say one word to us. This guy's mental state at that point was just dawn. It was September two thousand sixteen eight years after the first of four Omaha Calix when Dr Anthony Garcia finally got his day in court on hand to see it where the victims families who waited the longest arm. Anything is needed to determine for myself if he did it. The trial begins with a lucky break. All of a sudden you get handed the murder weapon. That was again and a bombshell witness a former stripper with a revealing story. Chew said I only date bad boys and he said well. I'M A bad boy. Two years after the murders of Thomas Hunter Surely Sherman and Roger and Mary Brownback. Anthony Garcia finally faced a jury there to witness it all friends and family of the victims commas hunters. Mom Clare Hunter who've been staying out of the public eye and surely Sherman's brother Dan rea two of the first people outside the courtroom. It's been here. That's been going on for a long time. A lot of this stuff sadler. Douglas County Attorney's Don Klein and Brenda. Beal had been prepping. This case for more than three years. You prosecuted for all former yes? Did you ever think about? Maybe we should just take the last two. That's easier sure that that was a discussion that we had many times but the evidence I think would still come in especially with two eight case so it seemed like the most logical thing was. We're going to let them together. Their theory was whoever killed. The boombox also killed Thomas Hunter and Shirley Sherman prosecutors summed up their case in a word revenge and they pointed to something they found on. Garcia's tablet one of the searches was just an interesting quote that had the word revenge in it so We were interested to know where that came from. And it's easy to find when you google. It was a quote similar to one in Shakespeare's. Play the merchant of Venice. If you harm me shall I not revenge load off of the merchant of Venice comes open a murder trial never before in my career? Motive thumbs up the case. That's our motive. Yeah the argued Garcia killed because he was angry about his termination from creighton and that it prevented him from being accepted into other programs to which he later applied as he continues to try and have some sort of a career at every time he tried to get into a different program or get licensed somewhere is creighton thing pops up and prosecutors said items found in Garcia's indicated. He was trying to destroy traces of his troubled past. Here's this trash bag sitting in the sink the chemical odor emanating from that. And it's all these papers in there in these papers after they're dried out is the termination letter from Dr Brownback. Dr Hunter Handwritten notes. And there's something about putting your fingers tape on your fingers park. Your car somewhere else. Walked to the location by common shoes. I common shoes sort of a list. That a killer would make yes it is. Prosecutors said the two sets of murders five years apart correlated with Garcia's career struggles. The first in two thousand eight came two weeks after he was fired by lsu Shreveport the second in two thousand thirteen followed another round of unemployment and financial troubles. He's trying to get jobs at temporary agencies. He's having financial issues. His home is going to foreclosure book. The argued that Garcia's original target on mother's Day two thirteen was Dr John Debut Tra a professor at Creighton who'd written him bad evaluations. She was somebody that he really thought was too hard on him was the cause of his termination to begin with. And you really had some animosity towards her two days before the attempted break-in prosecutors said Anthony Garcia used his phone to look up Dr Beauty Address analysis of a scant bit of DNA evidence taken from doorknob at the beautiful showed. There was a significant chance. That either Garcia or a male relative of his had tried to break in when that doesn't work because they're not home he then goes to wingstop right up the road and goes to plan B. where he searches brother. Brian Bex address. This receipt shows his location at wingstop at around two twenty six. Pm To fifty seven. They said Garcia used his cell phone to look up Dr Bags Home Address as for the gun. Used in the Brownback killings. Prosecutors argued the gun parts found at the brunt bat house fit a gun later found alongside a highway about twenty miles from Garcia's that gun was missing a crucial component. The barrel meaning a test bullet couldn't be fired. However what was left was licensed to Anthony Garcia. All of a sudden you get handed the murder weapon right now. That was a gift. I think it was divine intervention. Yeah the two thousand eight D. case however had no physical evidence what it did have was eyewitnesses several described seeing a silver Honda CR v with an out of state plate. This is a picture of the car. Anthony Garcia owned in two thousand eight when he was living in Louisiana. It's a Honda CR V. The thing that was noticeable was silver The people notice it as a type of SUV or CRV and they mentioned out of state out of state plates right. There was also that description of the man. People saw the hunter home that day. An olive skinned man wearing a baggy suit and they were all seeing the same person the same vehicle and the location. You're convinced that's not somebody who's lost and eventually finds their way out of that it fits and that's that's the person that did this crime and it and it fits. Anthony Garcia also tying it all together. Prosecutors called a bombshell witness a former stripper named Cecilienhof Hoffman told the jury that four years after the Dundee Murders Garcia made a shocking confession to her. She told the cops about it in this audio recording that he along time ago that I killed young boy an old woman and I said why I said why would you tell him. And he said they had it coming of all the pieces that we didn't have in two thousand eight case. That was a big piece. Presecutors said Hoffman had nothing to gain like publicly talking about her past life. She had two children. She had moved on her life and didn't want to go back in time but but she did but why would see mate that confession to her office said Garcia who was a regular at the Strip club where she worked wanted more than a lap dance. He was trying to impress her because she was trying to keep him at arm's length saying you know what he was getting too serious. I only date bad boys. Look good for me. Your doctor only date bad boys and he said his response to her was well. I'M A bad boy. I once killed a young boy in an older lady. It was just they needed to show. Garcia is guilt and we've all their evidence together. You know one piece by itself probably isn't enough but you put all those pieces together and it's a very good case. After twelve days. It was now the defenses turn. They would tell a different story one that attacked the very foundation of the prosecution's case candid. Look inside the defense team in real one real life in real life. You're flies on the wall. Ym You've never seen strategy session like this for the lawyers. Defending Anthony Garcia. It seemed the best defense was an all out offense. I'm not trying to ask somebody out to the prom. I'm trying to defend somebody and I'm GONNA use everything. We arsenal for lead attorney Bob. Mata junior that meant challenging or debunking everything jurors had heard from prosecutors for the past. Two weeks there were so many inconsistencies with the way that they said that it went down that it just never came together for me that he was guilty in a rare move. The defense team allowed dateline inside their private strategy sessions. Talk about our commute. Wanted to know it was in raucous group with Allison Mata serving as passionate adviser Robert. Motta senior the voice of experience something and local attorney Jeremy Jorgensen and an assortment of researchers sweating the details of the team rented a home out in West Omaha not far from the Dundee neighborhood. It was there that they plotted strategy. The first order of business knock down the theory. That Anthony Garcia killed two people in two thousand eight and two more in two thousand thirteen out of revenge. He gotta get recur stupid quote. Shakespeare quoque hurt me shine out revenge. According to the defense team Anthony Garcia had no motive to kill anyone. What's wrong with the prosecution theory? That Anthony Garcia blame the people at Creighton for everything bad. That had happened to him since he left. Creighton and the idea that when people would check out his resume they would inevitably get back to Creighton and they'd get a bad report about him. The problem with the state's theory is that Anthony Garcia would have been unaware of those communications. They don't let people in on those communications on the other hand. They pointed out Dr Hotter had actually handed Garcia. This short letter of recommendation after Garcia was dismissed from Creighton and got him his next job which a month after two months after he left Creighton for his part. Anthony Garcia seemed bored by all cameras. Were not allowed inside the courtroom but if they had been they would have shown what jurors saw. Anthony Garcia napping. He slept quite a bit during the trial. I'd say half the trial. And how do you think that that plays off to a jury? The two thousand eight case of Tom Hunter and surely Sherman was the most straightforward for the defense. There's no direct evidence. There is no smoking gun there is no DNA. It's all pieces and they're trying to put together this puzzle on the stand. None of the prosecution's eye-witnesses could ide- Anthony Garcia as the man they'd seen eight years earlier as for the Silver Honda CR V. Defense pointed out that not one of the eye. Witnesses ever mentioned the big spare tire that was on. The back of Garcia's car was big as all get out. I mean it's enormous and nobody said anything about that. Never never one mention of it which to me indicated. It wasn't my client's vehicle. That's the more likely answer. The two thousand thirteen bombeck case was more complicated for the defense team. Beginning with the fact that Anthony Garcia had been in Omaha on the day of the murders. How do you explain your client being back in Omaha and searching for the addresses of one person was killed and one person whose house was nearly broken into modern to? That's a tough question. I mean you're dealing with digital forensics ultimately the defense argued that because an investigator downloaded Garcia's iphone data ought to his personal following. The evidence was open to tampering. You've got a cop who's downloading what seems to be the most critical piece of evidence onto his own iphone. So it might about a cop who did that search and not your client. I'm not going to suggest that anybody You know specifically type the name in I'm just going to say that the way that the state presented the case and in particular that piece of evidence was not exactly truthful. The defense attorney spent a lot of time talking about the gun found on the side of the road and the AMMO magazine at the Brownback House. The fact that we have been very damaging evidence we want to cloud up about. It doesn't matter right there. So this o f want real life. I didn't realize wise on the wall man out also part in court. The defense argued could not prove a leak between the gun. Parts found that the Brownback House and the gun that was licensed to Anthony Garcia. The parts found in house or parts of a weapon that went through a catastrophic failure. Parts of our clients gun that were found on the side of the road showed no evidence of a catastrophic failure. And although it's the right kind of gun do if it's not necessarily the one of the right kinds of guns. You can't fire bullets in that gun. Chicago based defense team worked late into the night while keeping a close eye on their beloved cops were in pursuit of a world series title. Is God man on first and second? It was during these sessions over lunch. There's no point showing cards that don't have to be shown during breaks and at their rental that the defense team plan and prep their expert. Witnesses this really oil sounds interpretation. Everything laugh at something different. The DNA evidence linking Garcia to the beautiful break in they said was flawed and the prosecution's town line for the Brownback. Murders will suspect states window for one. This had to occur because of where they had our guy at certain times through cell phone records. It had to occur sometime between three fifteen and four o'clock four fifteen. According to the defense the boombox were killed later. Maybe around midnight. Long after Anthony Garcia had left Omaha and headed for our pathologists. Made it very clear that because of the the rigor mortis the conditions of the bodies The homicides didn't happen when he was in Omaha in the Dundee murders perhaps the biggest hurdle for the defense is the testimony of former exotic dancer society. Often Cecilia Hoffman. Statement was was huge. Remember she's the woman who quoted Garcia as saying that I play an old woman. But here's the thing Hoffman later said to a private. I hired by the defense that she remembered very little from that time bomb. Mata hammered at Hoffman's credibility on cross examination the concept. That is just so insane to me that this guy who's gotten a wave for essentially murder is now going to confess to a stripper that he knows that there's no way it's African Cup with them and that's your come online. Oh we I killed people. I killed an old lady and a young boy. I Dunno after three weeks. Both sides summed up their cases for the jury and hit all the familiar things. Then they placed Anthony Garcia's fate in the jury's hands toast from the defense but that was before the verdict of the jury do seen. My brother crashed in my mom. Cry Seeing the District Attorney. Cry Tough Moment Sometimes justice is not what happens in a courtroom but rather what comes out of it on the day lawyers finished their closing arguments in the Anthony Garcia murder case. A lot of people showed up to see what kind of justice would come out of courtroom three sixty among those waiting. Were the families of Tom. Honor of Shirley Sherman and yes. I'm Anthony Garcia. It was late afternoon when the jury the case then. The waiting began huddled on benches outside. The courtroom were reporters and spectators. The family and friends of the victims. Prosecutors retreated to their offices for what they hoped would be a short wait what the defense was ready to blow off. Steam. The models and their entourage settled in at a local bar several miles from the courthouse. The jury would be out for a while they thought so they feasted and toasted one another then as the sound system began to play the opening chords of the Rolling Stones Song Sympathy for the devil. Bob Mata said something. He wanted everyone in the bar. Two year this is for the Dabble after closings. You guys went out for drinks and we were there for that sympathy for the devil comes on the sound system and you say hey. That's the that's our theme song here. That's what we're going for. That's what you want sympathy for the devil. When I looked at the case of the state presented it was pretty obvious to me. They saw are sleeping. Client as the devil so yeah. I thought it was apropos. I thought it was appropriate. Not because I think he's the devil because they sure did state absolutely thought he was. The jury deliberated till nine pm that first night and all of the next morning tension ratcheting up with every tick of the clock. We thought we gave the jury a very solid case. We felt confident about it. But again you don't know then at about one in the afternoon word began to spread the jury verdict. I thought the verdict would be good. But you don't know until you hear it lining up alongside the families of surely Sherman and Thomas Hotter was the Garcia family. They were very respectful during the trial. I will say that I mean they didn't they didn't ever say anything like some some families. Thanks some families war right now. There there was not once everyone had crowded inside. The verdict was announced guilty on all counts. Breathe a sigh of relief. You just feel that that rush of emotion. It was a moment a long time. Coming for surely Sherman's brothers Brad. And Dan and her son Jeff reaction to the verdict relief of relief. You guys feel better. I think my sister deserved that. Her killer brought to justice just wonder was sitting with his mother and brothers while that verdict was read in that moment of joy and gratitude. He says he thought of his little brother. Tom A kid who never had the chance to grow up. Gets me thinking what where he'd be now and what? He looked like now. Talk like what he'd be doing. The most emotional moment came later that afternoon on closed doors when the victims families met privately with the people responsible for bringing this case to an aunt. We've basically gave Ronald applause. Came in because they did a hell of a job tough to be there. Or you're glad you were there. Were not really emotional. So seen my brother cry. See my mom. Cry Tired and seeing the District Attorney. Cry was tough while. Garcia's defense team faced a gaggle of cameras outside the courtroom in terms of what we did the Best Anthony Garcia's parents who spent much of their life savings on their son's defense spoke briefly with reporters rough. Everybody I know it's difficult for the other families who but it's very difficult for us to at this time. One last set of victims. He never wants turned around. Looked AT ONCE. I felt sorry for me I did. I saw his dad's head down a number of times. And you kind of in your mind. You don't know what they're thinking you know. Obviously until they were saddened greatly. Two years later a three judge panel ruled that Anthony Garcia should receive four death sentences for the murders of Thomas Hunter. Surely Sherman and Roger and Mary Brownback as he had through much of his trial. Garcia slept through his sentencing. As for the families he destroyed. Some healing may finally begin like a weight lifted off shoulders. There's not that constant cloud hanging over. Everybody wants to talk about things like that. Just more open better spirits when they read the verdict. Two deputies were taking him away and Alyssa. Motta was trying to convince Deputy Talk. Mendel let him speak to his parents because he will never get to speak to them again. What about all the other victims here? They can't speak to Shirley Thomas Roger. Berry they can visit him in jail Jennifer Bush Hager from the today show. And I'd love for you to join a book club. Read with Jenna. I've loved reading since I was a little girl and my mom librarian read to me every night. Now I love getting lost in the world that books open for US meeting characters who feel like friends. Every month. I choose a book that I fall in love with usually by divers debut author's books that lead to great conversations read with genetics about sharing our love of reading and connecting with each other so visit today dot com slash read with genetic to join the club and get my latest pick.
"Welcome to the Bill Barnwell show. I'm Bill Barnwell. It's Monday September thirtieth Q. Thousand and nineteen. We have two teams that are influx in some strange way to talk about on today's show. We're GONNA get to the Browns who had their best game of the year. I think on Sunday beating the Ravens later on in the show at Jake Trotter but first joining me to talk about the three and one Los Angeles Rams who I think are in a really interesting spot right now in terms of their exceeding expectations and simultaneously failing to back expectations is his The beat writers covers the rams. It's Lindsey Theory Lindsey. How are you good. How are you today bill. I'm good and I wanted to bring you on. I talk abuse of halfway between the Rams game yesterday and sort of in in the second quarter I think because obviously they were in a very strange. I think twenty one nothing to the buccaneers. it was a obviously surprising game ended up becoming a a very fun came to watch it was crazy and back and forth from the bucks ended up winning fifty five forty but I think we're in such an interesting spot with the rams because the NFC is so wide open. There's no real dominant team right now and so I guess where I want to start is as with this I if you told me for the year or the Rams Fan before the year they were. GonNa Start Three in one. I think you'd say okay well. That's not too bad. They have some tough games to start the year. If you had told they were gonNA blow out the saints and then lose to the buccaneers at home. I think they would have been very confused by what happened over the first month of the year so just to start how do you. I think based on what you're hearing from. The fancy follow you. How do you think fans are feeling about this three and one starting about this rams team right now right now. I don't you get the sense at least on social media which is not always the best gauge but I don't get the sense that people are excited and happy with what they're seeing gene. you know the the standard for the rams is no longer just to win but it's to win in exciting fashion and that's what Sean mcvay deliver deliver the last two seasons this offense like a well oiled machine it was exciting it was todd. Cooper Cup Robert Woods and then you throw in Brandin cooks on the deep balls calls and everything just looks like it ran so well and now this season. It's come to a screeching halt. They're not scoring touchdowns. There is no todd girly and Jared Goff does not look like a quarterback who just signed a hundred and ten million dollars guaranteed contracts. Yeah I mean I. It's weird because as you look at the numbers this team scored thirty three points yesterday our offense where thoroughly points defense out of the pick six jared Goff through for over five hundred yards they had two receivers over a hundred twenty yards but absolutely I mean it does feel like an animal. If you agree with this it seems like do the offensive feels disjointed maybe or even and if it is productive it doesn't have that same sort of smoothness to it or that same sort of consistency when it comes to just blowing teams away. Dr After Dr Yeah. I think that's a really fair way to put it in and it is misleading because you you do look at the score for master anything they're scoring but it's now been through four first quarter. They haven't scored a touchdown in to their four games. They haven't scored a first half touchdown but when he really just the eyeballs has it doesn't pass when you have watched McVeigh's offense last two seasons compared to what they do now. Jared Goff is throwing a step behind receivers on several place now. Don't get me wrong. Oh he's still has a few signature passes that I mean one to Robert Woods yesterday another in the end zone to Gerald Everett where you just say wow I mean he's just really putting in a perfect spot. Were only his receiver can catch it but again there's just too many other throws where you're kind of shaking your head and there's did a few play designs from Sean mcvay where he's clearly trying funeral thing which it's hard to fault him for that when you saw the results of the Super Bowl and clearly elite teams are catching onto his tricks but if you didn't play designs that really have just been completely shut down so it's this offense right now just doesn't look like they even know exactly who they wanna be where everything wants started with girly run yesterday girly only had five carrier so it y- it's really hard to determine. I mean almost like an air raid. Yesterday I think gop sixty passages which is an absurd number for him. Yes sixty eight pass attempts hamstring jared Goff seventy dropbox which I mean just you know to your point. It's like a college offense and and even given up the rams are comfortable throwing the football a lot right and we're reasonably effective if not necessarily dominant throwing the football yesterday and given that they're playing a tough bucks run defense you can not. I wouldn't fault them atone for throwing throwing the ball more frequently than it might seem but yeah I mean I. It just seems like this is an offense that is in transition and I I wonder do you attribute some of this to to shove phase plan of having his starters having offense basically sit during the preseason which has been the case for several years. It seems like well I I think that given some of the changes that they're trying to implement I that seems to play some role in it now. It's maybe a little hard to tell just because they didn't play in the preseason last year and they went to the super bowl and they looked fantastic. so given the changes aren't wholesale changes. I mean they're still mostly. There is awesome adjustment there mostly in eleven personnel it's it's kind of hard to say why this season is such a slow start when they didn't play in the preseason last year. It was best start but you know they are working. Jared Goff is working behind a pretty new offensive line. the Rams Lost Roger Sappho awful the very very sturdy left guard and Free Agency and John Sullivan who was breaking down physically. They're old center but mentally he was so sharp art and every player on the offense always looked at him and and news conferences weekly or talking at their lockers they would always talk about with John brought to the field as as far as identifying what a defense was doing and so now you replace those two players is to first year offensive linemen and I think this is kind of the results that this offense of line isn't a sturdy as it once was which obviously affects jared. Goff also affects times early in the run game. Yeah I mean absolutely the offensive line was something I wanted to bring up because you know heading into the year I brought up you thought about the guys you were you mentioned who are being replaced our Joseph no boom and Brian Allen now on the interior and figured okay. There'd be a drop off there. It's you know the center is going to have to take more of the you know responsibilities for setting protections Jared Gospel tick more of that role and it's an inexperienced players versus John Sullivan relevant Roger Sapphires. One of the best guards football and you know might work out great. They happen to find a replacement but you'd figure is going to be a transition period. How are are the tackles playing a you've figured that would be the strength of the offensive line with Andrew Whitworth Hall of fame caliber player to me and having seen two guys. Who are you know on on expensive contract contracts but through four games they have five holding penalties and last year they had three combined holding penalties over the entire season? So how are they playing or. It's just sort of random small sample. What's happening the tackles playing at the same level they were a year ago. I would definitely say that they are not in that started rob haven Stein so he between the false start penalties holding penalties. He's also been beat on several plays which once in a while that is going to happen thing but it just seems to be happening a higher rate and he's gone against them. Good ends in Kim Jordan my Garrett but rob has not played what he would probably say to his standard and then on the other side Andrew Whitworth has been called for holding now so those tackled while we can't just harp on the interior of the line and the young guys those also haven't been playing to the standard which they did the last couple of seasons now getting we'll have open locker room today and we'll probably stop and talk to those tackles and asked is it because they're perhaps trying to make up for a weakness on the interior is it perhaps because they are just getting beat. 'cause it seems like there's more going on. I'm considering those two guys. Last two seasons had no issue and this season now. It's becoming an issue yeah and it seems like maybe the you know the stuff you mentioned about trying new concepts on offense sort of get them out of their comfort zone. I think you know this was an offense that for so long was able to just run outside sights on on play action off outside zone moving with so consistent they had a level of continuity with their own another where really changed one offensive lineman between two thousand seventeen and twenty eighteen so line at sort of coalesce. Everyone knew everyone else was going to do from play to play and it seems like that's not necessarily the case right now and you mentioned thou impact. Todd Gurley and of course tiger is being impacted in another way and then I guess it depends on whether you whether you're paying attention to what's actually happening on the field or you're listening into the rams. The Rams have denied that there is a load management situation with Todd Gurley It seems like in reality though that's not actually the case. Is that fair yeah. I think it's fair to say I kind of waited. A little bit wanted to obviously Sean McVeigh said it's not a load management situation but you watch the first game we watch the second game now we have four samples and while his snapping was actually up this last week that does skew it a little bit. They weren't given the ball in the running game but at least the first three weeks his snap count was down fifteen percent from what it was a season ago and there's clearly we've been in office effort to have this offense not run through todd. Gurley and that's I think we're all this whole thing. Trips up is because Todd Gurley he was the NFL's often the player the air Tuesday's ago. He's an old pro running back when Sean mcvay came to Los Angeles everything went around Todd Gurley in and Shawn said multiple times throughout the offseason through all this knee stuff that todd remain the focal point of the offense and anybody who's watched this team for the last four weeks. I would have to agree I. I don't Know How could that talked really is not the focal point of this offense and therefore that puts way more pressure on Jared Goff and right now. It's not really been able to consistently handle that aren't Lindsey. Let's talk more about this rams offense and their struggles in a moment but first guys hiring can be a slow process ass and cafe all tourists. Coo Dylan Moskowitz needed to hire a director of coffee for his organic coffee company but you might expect given that say very niche title well. He was having trouble finding qualified applicants. Well thank you guys know what he did. He switched to SIP recruiter. 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Ziprecruiter dot com slash Barnwell Ziprecruiter ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire now back to the show in terms of what's happening with Todd Gurley in terms of what the rams were saying versus what they're doing which has been a there's been a gap up. They're going back to last December last January. I mean do you think the rams are. In denial about Todd Gurley are they just trying to put on a brave face. Jason just saying things that they know necessarily aren't accurate to the media and to the public or do you think they just think that do they really believe what they're saying. I guess I mean it. Just seems like it's at Dads with what's actually happening well. I can't imagine they actually believe what they're saying when they say it's not load management because todd did not participate and teen journals through the offseason program they called it a ski carefully monitored Workload a scheduled workload through training in camping todd practice every other day through training camp and then. Sean McVeigh said that would carry through the regular season during the workweek week he'd practice every other day now that has actually been every other day. He's practice Wednesdays Thursdays and he takes off on Fridays. He's doesn't participate in practice on Fridays Fridays as they prepare for Sunday's game so that's been really interesting and in fact Gurley was asked about that he he was asked you. How are you going to be on this everyday practice schedule and and why is that and he told reporters. I don't know if you've been paying attention from last season's but nothing's changed and well. Let's just not the case because Todd Gurley practiced every day in past seasons he didn't take off Friday's and the weird thing about this is they're probably nobody no shame in the rams just saying that they need to do a better job at making sure their workforce can last through sixteen game right. Let's play AH playoff. There's no shame in that so it seems like they've taken such an odd route to otherwise make sure that girl is not you know carrying the ball for eleven hundred twelve hundred yards plus adding another five hundred receiving yards on the the the taking a very roundabout way and it's making them look not great saying as we all see every Sunday how he's being used and it's clearly very different yeah. It just doesn't add up to me you know I just like I try to be honest at all times. Yes you know I think everyone tells a lie here and there and everywhere may be less themselves here and there but it does seem like it just doesn't add up and like I don't know if they're paying attention to it or just don't care but the other thing that's interesting to me about. The running game is that you know the hot sort of name heading into the season on the Bachelor was Daryl Henderson obviously going super high fantasy draft. Ask relative to being amid round. Pick behind you know possible star back. I think people expect him to be a big part of this offense at least for a couple series per game and he's basically been on the bench for the the entirety the first month of the season. Are you surprised by that and do you think it's going to change as the season goes on you know. I'm not surprised about it. and I think like everybody nobody else when they picked their hundred and third round my eyebrows raise. What are they doing here but sean they while he's always quite quite positive about all this players and sees everything on the bright side glass half full there was a comment he made back in the preseason. I believe it was after after they played on in Hawaii. Mine is actually even been week one where he just talked about how Henderson definitely had some things you need to pick up. I mean this past past action and and different nuances of the offense that he really needed to see Henderson get involved with so. I am not shocked to see that as a rookie hey Dale Henderson is not getting the run that many people thought perhaps he would just because when you when mcvay kind of delve into the details of the game like that which happens it's quite rarely it's a little bit of a red flag that pops up and you start to realize okay this guy's got definitely got some issues and things he has to learn before for mcvay feels comfortable inserting him and I think that's what we're seeing which again might be over innovation my Parkland back to one common after one preseason game but when you Kinda look at what's happened in the past few players on offense and actually that's been the case and that's been the trend for McVeigh and especially in eleven personnel and it has he's kind of resorted to in the past he's got eleven guys and and this year maybe go twelve with thirteen even even go twelve with Malcolm Brown thirteen Gerald Everett but beyond that if you don't really work into his plan early in the season you just don't really ever make the Sean McVeigh clan and and I think that's maybe what we're seeing right now. They're a full ninety. Five percent of Los Angeles offensive snaps through two weeks are very weak. Excuse me has been with either three or four wide receivers on the field so getting back is GonNa you know the America with their more frequently but absolutely it's been you know a lot of three and four white sets. That's and you know a lot of the sort of pass. EFI sets that we've come to know for sure McVeigh at this point and I feel like you know we talked about this. During the Super Bowl Week I might try and go with more twelve personnel in the Super Bowl. I don't think they really did that much but one of the reasons they made sense do that was because the rams at that point didn't have Cooper Cup who was after the year with tornadoes yell and at least right now when I watched this offense. It really really feels like from week. Three Kuba Cup is the guy who's keeping this offense afloat. Is that fair to say yeah well yesterday. It was interesting because Cooper through the first half had had very. I can't remember the exact number but it's like he was Kinda non existent in the game and it was Robert Woods who'd been go quote unquote Mr Dependable Mr Consistency the last couple of seasons who really had come through but by the end of the game you know Cooper Cup in the second half really Kinda came on but we get in week out now. It's the guy coming off. ACL INJURY WHO's looked the sharpest. WHO's been able to have significant burst down the field breaking tackles your Dr Catch I mean the guy's phenomenal at it but it really seemed like this is a jared Goff Cooper Cup driven offense right now and if those two are in sync which I don't think they weren't necessarily through the first half yesterday then everything else kind of falls apart which is really interesting to think that it's jared in the slot receiver who are kind of relied on to get things done right now what I find so interesting about that is will cooper. Cup is one of the few players in this offense who is on a long term deal for significant money. I mean he's making no money. I wrote about this. The two weeks ago maybe and I was looking up. Cooper Cup salary and I was like that's for a guy is just making nothing when he looks either side of him in the locker room and you got brandin cooks on a like a five or five year or something eighty one million dollar deal Robert Woods the thirty four million dollar deal looking up cup to this season making eight hundred and eleven thousand eight hundred eleven thousand dollars right. I'm like you know sure good money. I mean obviously Andrew Jackson but I think I'd be happy with that her but relative to the other guys in the audience where you have not just brandin cooks not just just Robert Woods but also tied girly Jerry Goff now Whitworth haven't seen you have so many guys were making significant money that it's just fascinating yet. The Rams Rams are being bailed out in some cases receiver making eight hundred thousand dollars and of course you figure after this year given the rams history they're going to pay cooper copies going to be very valuable player for them to keep but as jared Goff's cap it at least right now for any restructures the set to rise from ten point seven million to I believe thirty six million dollars dollars next year we will. I mean it just reinforces that I just reinforces but I wonder if they're going to have to make a comeback elsewhere to accommodate Hanan Cooper cuppa a big the contract yeah definitely going to take a look. There's a couple of guys on expiring deals. I mean keep Toledo Marcus Peters. Dont they fowler so when you look at the defense. That's really really where they're probably going to take a hit. Andrew Whitworth left tackle is the last year of his contract this year so there's several guys out there where they're going to make some some decisions you know who gets the franchise tag. Who are they going to have to let go because they simply aren't going to have the money to pay because it is not. I can't imagine there'd be any way they would want. Cooper Cup to leave Los Angeles. They love everything that he brings to the table. obviously his work ethic his production but also he's a guy who's in quarterback meetings. I mean he's like a coach on the field. He knows the nuances of this offense and he's like one in people in Lockstep with Jared Goff most of the time and with Sean Chaumet say so. He is a very very valuable piece to them yeah absolutely so now short week coming up for the rams. After the first of the season they traveled to Seattle to play the seahawks tough place to play on a short week. Is this game more important. You think the rams now than you had expected heading into the season. Yeah I absolutely would think it is I think that we all predicted the NFC west would be improved especially given the San Francisco Forty niners and getting Jimmy Garoppolo hello back but I think that this is going to be a real dogfight. Nancy West to the Hawk Seattle the Rams Right now three and won the forty niners undefeated coming off their bye week week so I think that this game in Seattle I don't WanNa say it's a must win because there's still plenty of football played but it's this is going to be no cake walk in the NFC. Let's see West like it was for them last year when they swept the division so I think for them to avoid losing back to back games and to just go a little bit of confidence back because I know through three with the narrative and the story in that media room every day is the offense just doesn't look right and Sean McVeigh's admitted it and so is your golf and now they have a loss not only because the offense obviously the defense got off to a pretty horrendous start on Sunday but really it's the offense that has not not been able to provide any juice so I it it doesn't. It's not a must win but it definitely would help their long-term. 'cause. I mean if I finish up here. Ah We haven't talked about the defense very much did give up forty eight points yesterday in the ignoring the docking sue touchdown that finish the game but a defense defense that was facing a team that I think we don't really take seriously on on perhaps unfairly buccaneers fans but a team that you kind of expect it okay look famous winstons going to have a bad game because he's on the road facing a tough rams defense but a forty one three eighty five four touchdowns really ugly pick sex but an offense that move the ball and picked up. I needed to time after time against the rams defense so is there one thing that concerns you about this rams defense that they have to fix weeks to Seattle and San Francisco. You know I'm trying to kind of delve back into what happened yesterday. I'm trying to figure out if this is kind of a one off nominally for them where everyone just came out and had a poor game. I was talking to a couple of players afterward and they said they have any energy across the board. No energy so I know going into the game they were asked as a trap game and is this something you get caught coming off the browns win and looking ahead to the seahawks on a short week and they're all no no no but I think that maybe like the rest of us. They came in and said well. It's the box will go out there and run through the motions and that's exactly what it looks like the first quarter they ran through the motions oceans and then realize oh my Gosh we're down twenty one and nothing as it got through the first half so. I'm not too concerned about the defense. Now obviously the ground lay another egg this week that's obviously reason for concern but because of how well they played and how dominant they played keeping their offense in it the last three weeks. I'M GONNA Kinda. Chalk this one up to a novel. I mean they hadn't allowed going yesterday. A passing play of more than thirty yards and then James Winston just made them look silly so I'm I'm GonNa talk that went on to they didn't show up and they realized that they can no longer just go through the motions that they WanNa win weekend and week out into that point biggest play. The game for the bucks was the sixty seven yard touchdown on a play where they were in. You know I had no safety help. Cover zero men men field and Marcus Peters thinks they're in zone owned. Let's Mike Evans run by him. That's you know it's a mental mistake and obviously the talents there so you know. I think you'd bet on the talent but I mean obviously This is a rams team that it's weird. You know like they're three and one. They're in great shape. They're gonNA make the playoffs. You'd figure there you know in a tougher division that I think people expected expected but still good football team by all estimations relatively healthy football team as well and it still feels like there's so much doubt about what this rams team is going to do. Maybe it's just raise expectations but a really fascinating situation happening in Los Angeles no doubt and it's going to be I think fascinating going forward because the rams are now kind of the hunted as they say coming out that Super Bowl and with all these coaches and all these teams hearing nothing but how great how so much of a masterful offense of Mine Sean McVeigh was that puts a target on your back so you better believe team spent the entire Austrian and trying to figure out how to stop this this offense and it looks like effectively done so through four weeks so it'll be really interesting to see what kind of adjustments the rams can come up with going forward all right well. Let's see if people want to check out the rams conference. Where can they do that. Ten Dot Com hit the rampage and then you can follow me also on twitter at Lindsey theory. Thank you so much. We're GONNA come back after the break talk about the brass with Jake Trotter here on the bill Barnwell show. Does this place look haunted. Think so what about those two creepy girls con stay with US truly pregnant fairly sorry Mr Mnangagwa's great service with Geico. You get twenty four percents access to agents. Thank you creepy girls in your sleep in the car. Now the guy go we'd Switch Today Day for twenty four seven access to licensed agents back here on the bill Barnwell show. I'm Bill Barnow. ESPN we spent the first half of the show talking about a team that looked impressive. Maybe took a step backwards last week in the three and one rams are GonNa go in the other direction talk about a team that was disappointing. Perhaps to some people through three weeks of the season and then I think I wonder what you think as well I guess but Timothy leary their best performance on Sunday in a comprehensive victory over the Ravens. We're talk about the Cleveland browns joining me to do that is. ESPN's Jake Trotter Jake how are you. I'm going to be on with you again. Happy to have you on again. Last time you had just started with the Cleveland Browns beat. You're just moving. virus in this team play for four weeks. Now I mean. Do you think what we saw from them. On Sunday was sort of the you know the sort of performance rounds browns fans and browns players andbranch coaches were expecting heading into the season yeah undoubtedly their best performance of the year and I think the offense we've been waiting to see since they traded for. Odell Beckham like the first three games you'd see flashes of it but from first to fourth quarter order it was too inconsistent and in this game. We finally saw what they were capable of. The ironic part is Odell Beckham only two catches Nydia into the fourth quarter so so it just kinda underscored the death of firepower that they have in the different ways that they can beat you yeah absolutely. It seemed like it was a performance. That was really complete fleet. You know it wasn't just hey. We hit one big play or hey. We you know had Odell Beckham. you know one of the greatest career or we just took advantage jets team that was down to their third string. you know that their string quarterback or we made it with a couple of interceptions and I'm sure it feels that way. It felt like start to finish they. They were a better team than what looks to be the best team in the AFC north and I think that has to be really promising. You know. It really felt like you know for the first week. This is a not not just eighteen with a few great players but a great team top to bottom again for all the consternation Baker Mayfield overrated as hell. Freddie kitchen doesn't know what he's doing. First Time head coach I mean you know the browns had taken his publicly and yet here they are atop the AFC north for the first Stein inside years really with the inside track in the division because they have the road win at Baltimore and after they get to these next pretty games their schedule opens up with them I mean I haven't looked at it bill but they've got to have one of these schedules in the NFL after they go to New England. They have seven games not counting the Monday night game tonight because somebody's but he's got win between Cincinnati and Pittsburgh that they have seven games after New England against teams that have yet to win a game so they have a real opportunity to surge surge here and if they continue to the show what they did Sunday offensively I think that they have a chance to still be a ten win. Teen gene despite the lackluster start yeah absolutely. I think only the jets just based on just looking. We're not actually running the numbers but just on you know behind the schedule have an easier schedule over the final nine games or eight games of the year second half of the season the browns do a bunch of home games still have a home game against the dolphins offense which is about as guaranteed victory as there is in football right now and and I and I think based on what we saw in Sunday's kind of coalescing. Are we saw an offensive. That's if lion that has really struggled for such as the season only allow one sack against the Ravens defense which we expect to be pretty good. might not be the case they they have a lot of changes. They seem to have some dissension on that side of the ball but I I think Ravens defense that we expect to be pretty the Ravens and what I found interesting was that you look at the numbers Baker Mayfield's before week four he had taken the re point. Oh three seconds for his typical pass that was third highest figure in in the NFL yesterday be second-quickest release in the NFL two point four four seconds and his numbers drastically improve over the course of his career when his get on the block quickly versus holding on to it to try and make plays. Do you think there was a you know a a significant change in how the browns operated their offense on Sunday or was it more just the better results from the things they did even it wasn't that much different than what they were doing over the first three weeks of the year. No I think there was a dramatic adjustment of and I think they kind of started data against the rams. You saw a lot more. RPO You know trying to get the ball at Baker's hands quicker than the first two weeks of the season the other justice they may okay yesterday is they were under Sir a lot more against the rams. They were shotgun. I believe seventy six percent of the time against Baltimore. It was just fifty eighty two percent of the time that's a season low for them and I think that allow them to get more involved setup play action. Take some pressure off Baker so I I just think that adjustment alone getting under center in showing more of a threat to run the ball you know keeping their offense balanced made a huge different than you know you look at the numbers and this is why I was never overly concerned about the way Baker was playing was you you just you just hit it on the head. When he was getting rid of the ball he was fine he was accurate. You know he was making plays it was when he was holding onto the ball and I think they were trying to unlock and things downfield with. Odell that that weren't really there or Baker was trying to force things to Adele that weren't really there you know he he had the over the first three games the highest rate of of rolling a pass into double coverage at any quarterback in the NFL over three stretch guess he was getting all this targets 'cause. Odell Beckham and so. I think that they okay. Let's take what the defense gives us. They're gonNA take. Odell out of the game fine. We're GONNA find Jarvis Landry. We're GONNA hit are titans. We're going to get the ball in the TUB and and and and you saw what the offense can do when they don't try to force the the ball. Odell so I think getting under center getting the ball Baker's hands not forcing the ball to Odell wanting the ball. Those are a lot of that I think the adjustments they made it really paid off and the result that you saw retreat at best they were in shock done way less frequently and week fourth and they had been over the prior weeks of the season right and I think that Nick Saban running for sixty five yards was was. It's not an accident that they they came into that game okay. Let's run the ball more than me. Let's be physical in the running game because Nick job is the most underrated part of this offense the music terrific running back underrated breakaway speed but can be physical between the tackles and they had run the ball well at times with him this season but it just just kind of felt like they would get away from it and get back to empty shotgun or exclusively RPO nick job and and nothing else and they were a lot more versatile with their running game you know showed a lot more which and they never got away from it either they stuck with it and that's when you you saw that eighty eight yard touchdown run that with the backbreaker is because they never abandoned the running game like they had at times through the first three weeks and you know when you can run the ball like that and he's got back in regardless landry too. You can be pretty devastating offensively damage. Jarvis Landry also had a big game eight catches one hundred sixty seven guards and I mean some of that that was just you know. There was a poor tackling attempt on his long. I believe a sixty yard catch sixty five yard catch and run but was there something different you think to get various landry more involved with the offense this week or was it just simply. We're GONNA throw the open guy and Jarvis Landry happened to be the open guy often the Nobel Beckham Asleep Yeah. I think it was the a lot of you know Jarvis coming in for the weekend rains one forty seven and receptions for target which is way below what you know his his career average is is a bit. I mean he's been an excellent actually receiver and Yeah I. I don't know exactly why it was so low. I think it was it was a little bit progress into the mean but yeah I mean I think that the ravens were going to say go back out of the game and so the Cleveland countered with okay. How can we get Jarvis Landry involved. They did a lot of creative stuff with them. At one point they ran like a like a triple option play where Baker flipped at four and then Jarvis and the option of pitch to del or keep it himself a day. you know. I think Jarvis you know he brought some tackle sue yeah. I mean he had more or yards after the catch on that one run you were referencing then he had the first three games combined so you know at the end of the day. Sometimes it's just guys playing better but I think that they did much better job of allocating the ball to where it needed to go instead of trying to force it to a certain area that wasn't there yeah I mean absolutely that's how the best offenses personally work and it seems like as good as the bras and ours. There's an throw the ball to Odell Beckham now. Obviously it was more effective. Just the open receivers yesterday you covered would baker for a long time and so I think I want your opinion on this because obviously we're sort of conflict for us in some ways. Our colleague is Rex Ryan who works on Sunday night on Sunday morning show fry. CSPAN there's been some back and forth there. Baker has said repeatedly. You know if you don't you're not in this locker and if you don't wear Dr Brown and orange you don't matter but at the same time Baker is responding to comments publicly so I mean from your perspective how much of what makes Baker Mayfield typically. How much of what makes going is sort of feeding off that criticism. Is it really not matter that much in the long run or is it really you know. Does he need that to. Kinda thrive and play his best football all he needs it. He wasn't gonNA give restaurant any credit for the win. You know he explicitly stated that afterwards but Baker is uniquely sleep better when he is in the fray when is going back and forth I mean there's a million examples of this now rather square. I mean there. were two this week alone. It was X. Ryan Dan or Antonio Brown but he is he is better when he is in the fray and I think he gets a lot of his edge from that. You know he used to keep a like. We always say you know you're in my book that he actually had like a a a list. You're on the win actually kept a real list of people that he felt had slighted house incredible and and he doesn't have it anymore but at one point he did because that's he would use that to to get that edge you mean he needed to play with. Baker was never you know the prototypical quarterback you know he had to win. A different kind of way you know he in part is part part of what makes him special player is. you know the edge that he brings to the field that may be different than other quarterbacks and there's one if you watch that go back and watch that. Nick Saban touchdown run the ADA yarder like look in the background and look who is running down the field like a madman in in the report. It's Baker Mayfield and I just think that he for whatever reason makes him pick. He is better when he is in the middle of all this stuff and he's better when he's talking trash on the field. you know is he. He's better when he is in the fray and and I think careered out this week because it was by far the best game is played the yet Baker Mayfield on that play his MAC speed topped out at eighteen point eight miles per hour to to put that in context that was faster than nine of the eleven ravens players who are theoretically chasing after nick job on the yard touchdown run. That's that's pretty impressive at this time of the year on on that on that friendly them yeah. I mean it. Was You know I'm sure it was it was thrilling for everyone. It was kind of having to deal with you know all this hype and all this frustration and all the back and forth struggles. I mean all the sort of you know criticism a half that moment of okay. We're GONNA win this game. Here's a huge moment for one of our best players like must've been very cathartic even for week four of the season absolutely absolutely and I think you know one thing to Odell deserves a lot of credit because you know I his reputation is what it is for whatever reason but like at not one woman during the struggle that they had to start the season did he ever show up Freddie or baker even in the slightest way whether it was some body language movement and you know he never got frustrated despite the fact he wasn't getting any touches on Sunday and you know there was one that I thought was really revealing. They run around like go down around like a little bit of a curl pattern and you know the entire secondary got sucked up into it and that allow ricky he seals Jones to get wide open. I think eight point eight yards of separation the longest of any completion of Baker's had his entire career and you just look back down. He was pumping it it does and and I think if he can continue to play football that way. It's GonNa make a huge difference for Baker where Baker doesn't feel like he has to force the Ball Hotel Hotel and then just on the field. It's just going to open up so much for the rest of the team so I mean I think even though you know it's not if you're a fantasy football owner goodell like myself not a great day for him but for the Browns I think it was a low rate day because it really showed what he how he can impact the game without even touching the ball yeah absolutely on the flip side of the ball talk briefly about the defense are you surprised at the secondary has been able to sort of keep its head above water for the last two weeks given that it's been you know mostly backups at cornerback and safety. I have been surprised although I think that what if they were going to have an injury somewhere corner is the one spies they felt like they could overcome because they've got a couple of pros invested in TJ carry three and terrance Mitchell guys that have started before the guys that are reliable and they have they have really answered the Bell because you you go against the rams into into that receiving core and then the speed that Baltimore has and then held up really well both times so I think it's been really impressive and underrated part of what's what why there too because you know Hollywood Brown and Mark Andrews and those guys are have been difficult to deal with this year and actually kind of thought the speed was gonNA be the problem for Cleveland and it really wasn't because those guys played so well and you know some point they're going to get into award ingredient. Williams back and you you feel really good about a cornerback force in of of those who guys longest Mitchell and carry the way that they've played absolutely I mean they're they're really playing at a you know L. Higher than you would have expected even given that you know the browns. Do you have a good pass rush but I think they they've sort of held. Their own in a way that has to be promising has to make you feel better about you know your your secondary going forward even if he loses dense award for a couple of weeks down the line. I during the second half of the season has been really good this year. I mean you take Tennessee game which was such a weird game because the eighteenth penalties. I mean it. You almost have to throw it out because when you're just giving the team first downs or you're constantly and I in twenty five. It's really hard to get a good read of what kind of team you have but since then they have been really good and they gave the offense really struggled in that Rans Rams tmz game they gave the Brownsville chance to win and they were great against Baltimore as well so you know I felt like they had a chance to have a top ten defense at least according to FBI and and they have kind of been right there and and they've done it with some injury that you mentioned as well yeah. I mean that that's you know. That's absolutely surprise. The fact that the eventually have top ten ceiling is not high not surprisingly made but do it without dense award do without greedy Williams for two weeks and like you said really it's just the one Tennessee game where in the second half Kinda got away from them. especially you know there's a Baker Mayfield turning the ball over it putting combat situation some defensive scores. Short field obviously contributed to it as well but yeah I mean I think a a team that we saw their ceiling on Sunday. We saw they can be a a dominant team on both sides of the football and so as we sort of think about the browns going forward given what you've seen from them from four weeks have your expectations -tations for their season change after four weeks versus what you were expecting and he entered the year. I took them to go tenants six and win the AFC north worth and I think that's what I would take them to do. If I had to retake it today I haven't gone back through the scheduled to pick wins and losses but it just kind of felt I like the knee if they could get to say three and four which I don't think is is too difficult for the now they have to win one game after New England then with the way the schedule sets up for them. I mean there's just a lot of wins there for them and then you watch them in the way that they've sort of figured out some things offensively you with think going forward and then defensively as well as they played I don't think they're in this year with Kansas. City or England as a are you know bonafide super bowl contender but I think they're in that next year at themes that could win a playoff game that could certainly get to the playoffs then you look at where Cleveland then in football purgatory for the last three decades I think they have a terrific chance to break the NFL's longest divisional the drought which goes back to nineteen eighty nine and I think they have a chance to break a really good chance to break the the NFL's longest playoff drought which goes back to two thousand two so so when you put it in that context. I think that they are in really good shape right. Yeah I agree I mean I think you know. It looks pretty ugly. After the the first week of the year it looked like it was going to be a problem after the Raven started to know but ravens lose two straight loss to the browns on the road. The steelers looked like a mass right now the bengals angles or just been destroyed by injuries obviously like you said one of those teams has to win tonight but you'd figure they're prohibitive favorites now. They're they're in great shape and and absolutely ask the schedule sort of weekends. During the second half this could be a team wear off a six to seven and one second half and then head into the postseason with ten wins. Look like one of them were devastating teams in the League so yeah I think the browns are are well positioned to kind of be the teammate expected to be the favorites to win the AFC he north but we're going to keep monitoring it and Jake of course you're going to keep covering it for us it SPN but if people wanNA check out more of what you do can they do that they can find me on ESPN DOT com along with you built on the NFL page and then I'm all over twitter over pleasure. I'll be back on later on in the year but thanks so much for hopping on the show. Today thanks anytime they'll take okay all right. Thanks so much to my guest. F- SPN Lindsey Theory who covers the Rams J. Trader who covers the browns. We have more audio coming later on this week in another podcast previewing the action for week five or eighty four four weeks into the season after Wednesday night's night already a quarter of the way into the year for most of the NFL's tells teams very very strange star to the hope. You're enjoying the stuff. We're doing here on E._S._P._N. And more on the way.