19 Episode results for "Tobias"

Data Engineering with Tobias Macey

Software Engineering Daily

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Data Engineering with Tobias Macey

"The <unk> dupe ecosystem provided every company with the tools to store and query large amounts of data at a low cost since two thousand five that ecosystem has expanded with more and more open source applications for data infrastructure for structure data infrastructure includes databases data lakes distributed Cues Data Warehouses query engines web applications on prem software closed source open source cloud platforms and software as a service there there is so much software in the data engineering world and it is difficult to keep track of everything in the data engineering ecosystem to buy macy is the host of the data engineering podcast a show about technologies and practices in the world of of Data Engineering Tobias joins the show to discuss his perspective on the evolving landscape of data engineering and the trends he seeing on the data engineering podcast. You probably do not enjoy searching for a job. 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I'm doing great. I'm looking forward to talking about data engineering with you. There are a set of components in a typical data engineering stack their databases data warehouses data lakes cues for someone who is just getting into data engineering described the different components of a data engineering stack sure so I mean they vary a little bit depending on the problem demand that you're working in the type of organization shouldn't but to generalize there are sourced systems so those could be application databases. They could be click stream data like what you track in Google analytics they could be events from things like IOT sensors is but at the end of the day you have some place where you're getting data from and then you need to be able to eventually deliver it to somebody who's going to do something with the data whether it's use it for training machine learning algorithm feeding into prediction engine powering a business intelligence dashboard and all of the steps in between our what we typically typically think of as data engineering and so from the source system whether it's an application database or click stream analytics you would typically the other put that into a Q. In the event of an unbounded stream of data such as events or run it through some sort of e._t._l.. Or extract transform load pipeline nowadays they're more commonly referred to as a workflow engine that you would use used to extract the data from that source database and then loaded into whether it's data lake or a data warehouse and along the way you also need to think about things like encryption and protection and access control of the data <hes> generally particularly for data lakes but also for data warehouses you want to have some sort of data catalogs you know where the data is and what it is and then also you need to be able to have some way of granting granting access to the end users who need to be able to access it so you need to have some sort of identity management particularly for things like data warehouses. Somebody has access credentials to be able to log in and run queries to do the analysis that they need to do. Why are we you need so many different storage systems? We have database data warehouse Data Lake. Why can't we just use one database or data system for everything well because different different databases are architect it to be optimized for different usage patterns so in an application they're typically what are called oil t. p. or online transaction processing databases and so those are optimized for being able to do quick reads and rights and being able to do some limited amount of aggregation so that the application can store and retrieve data in a fairly real-time fashion whereas for data warehouses or data lakes where you're going to be processing much larger volumes of data you want to optimize for the analytical workload where you're aggregating information across thousands or millions or billions of records and so a lot of those are generally column oriented versus row oriented and things like post grads are my sequel and then there are also databases such as Manga DB which is optimized for being able to normalize the data or store at all in a single object which makes it easier to think about from the application perspective but also has different attributes attributes in terms of how you would store access the data and then in data lakes? You might have different ways that the data is formatted so it could be using things like parque which is a column oriented file format it could be J. saw it could be C._S._V. so they're different types of data different ways you want to be able to use the data and there isn't really a way to be able to optimize for all of those use cases within one engine without having some sacrifice in terms terms of performance or through capabilities there are these different storage tears with different access. Layton sees in different costs. How does the tradeoff between time MM and financial cost? How does that affect the data pipeline so in terms of the speed of access generally you want to <music> so for more recent data you want to be able to access it quickly in the event that you're working with real time applications so things like sensor data where you want to be able to maybe do anomaly detection to see if there's some sort of significant event that you need to alert on or if V._R.? Trying to monitor your production systems and you want to be able to generate an alert because all of a sudden you have a major spike in inbound web traffic and need to be able to allocate more servers to be able to handle the load whereas whereas for stuff that is further back in history because the time aspect is already so much further out your usually able to handle a longer latency in terms of being able to retrieve and process the data so just because of the temporal aspect of the data self it usually has some correlation with the allowances for how fast you want to be able to access it and then in terms of the cost factor being able to reduce the latency and the speed at which you can process the data usually means you're working with salt state drives and Hif- high throughput network access whereas for data the year able to accept some late and sees you might put that on spinning disc or depending on how old it is you might be able to put it on tape archive and deal with retrieval time on the order of things like ours or days versus the seconds or milliseconds that you might want for more recent data and so the faster data access costs more just because you're dealing with more high-performance hardware which itself costs more for the person who's providing versus things like tape archive which is fairly cheap and ubiquitous. Let's imagine a ridesharing company. How does data make into these different areas of the data pipeline? Take me through a prototypical flow of data in a ridesharing company as it would make its way to different constituents so so for that type of scenario you know the person who is interacting with the application so the person who's getting the ride and the driver will be generating information so scheduling the pickup and and so that will factor in things like where vehicles located which incorporates G._p._S. sensor data all of these have a temporal aspect to it as well or time oriented and so those will generally get sent to some sort of inbound sound processing system whether it's a tough topic or some other queuing system and then from there you might have a consumer that is pulling off for being able to do real time analysis of matching a person requesting the ride with the number of drivers who are in the area so you need to be able to do some fast analytics of what are the distances between those two objects and then from there you might also have a separate consumer that is pulling all of that same data but putting it into some long-term archive for being able to do historical trend analysis and so by having that input buffer you're able to have the data serve multiple purposes and then also for things like Kafka Pulsar Czar they have the ability to do some in situ processing to maybe pre aggregate data or do some simple analytics to make it easier for downstream systems to than do whatever additional logic they need from from the consumer. WHO's doing the real time matching they would probably then send another message back down to a push service they would push a ride request to the driver to know that they need to go and pick up somebody at X.? Location and then for the other consumer that's pulling the data to put into data laker data warehouse it would just probably push that raw data into whatever system of record for then being able able to do different transformations aggregations for a data scientist WHO's trying to determine what are the ways that they can maybe optimize their algorithms to reduce the amount of time it takes to create a match or determine termine whether they need to have more drivers in a given area to be able to optimize for the customer experience of being able to request a ride and be picked up and dropped off at they're in a more timely fashion. It's useful to have you explain seen this from a higher level and this is what you do on your podcast. Also I think there's a lot of people who are getting into data engineering and they may have a limited understanding of these different components so getting a bird's eye view and understanding in more detail how the different areas of the data pipeline works can be useful to to these people just just to revisit kind of simple question much of the transactional data from this kind of ridesharing application like the user interacting with the driver the user summoning a ride that kind kind of data is going into a transactional data store. It's probably going into Mongo DB or maybe post grass or my sequel and we can't just do all of our operations over that transactional database. We need to get the data from the transactional database and put it into a state that we can manipulate more productively. How do we do that and wide we need to do that so for the case you say that we're loaded into we'll go post grads for now because I'm more familiar with it and it has a little bit broader of any go system but Maga DB is become pretty heavy contender in the space as well but post grads in terms of the default installation of it is optimized for that transactional nature of being able to say with certainty? I issued a right request. This data is now confirmed. I know that it has been stored safely safely and I'll be able to retrieve it at a later date but it's also generally stored in a row oriented format so all of the data for given record is stored in one sort of file object and then when you're trying to do analysis so for for instance will say since we're talking about ridesharing there might be a customer -iety there will be Geo location stamp so latitude and longitude. There'll be a time stamp there will be you know maybe some additional Meta data of the you might be related to foreign key of a city sagoes though you translate that latitude longitude into a city object but then when you're doing some an analysis later on down the road maybe you all you care about are what are the time distributions across all of these requests quests so you only care about that one column whereas in Post Grizz you would have to retrieve all of the records and then pull out that column objects. It's a fairly expensive operation for some where you're going to be throwing away most of the data so it's extra. Extra data over the wire. It's extra data being read from disk and it's just GonNa take a lot longer time whereas if you're putting it into a column oriented data store whether that's something like Click House or snowflake DB or any of the other myriad hit entrance into that market right now if it's column oriented you can say all I want is this one column and it'll database will be able to do a lot of his aggregations in the engine itself and then retrieve send back the result to you what you actually care about rather other than making you do additional processing after you've already returned all of those records so it reduces the amount of data sent over the wire reduces the amount of time required to perform analysis and that's massive cost savings both in terms of time and potentially actually money spent on bandwidth when you're reducing the overall throughput by that level of factor especially when you're dealing with millions or billions of records there is data all around a large company. There's all kinds of data. How is data permission across an organization typically so that's one that's going to be highly variable depending on the way that Organiz organizations setup but in terms of a best practice way to do it? You'll usually want to have some sort of single sign on so whether that's using curb rose or OCTA or some sort of identity system within the company to say this is who this person is. This is what their role is so whether it's a database administrator software developer or the C._E._o.. And so those roles will be associated with different types of permission levels so maybe the database administrator will have full full access to all the fields but in application developer will have any personally identifiable information redacted from their view of the system and so that central authentication system will be tied into the either the engine itself as far as what they're permissions are so things like post grads you can set permissions based on the <hes> column level or some other databases. We'll just be Bouillon yes or no of whether or not they have access and there are system such a strong D._M.. Where they serve as a proxy where they don't necessarily control the specifics of the application permission but they will audit the entire sessions so that you can go back later to see if this person was was accessing records that they shouldn't have or for a data warehouses system again they might have column level permissions and so based on what the role is? You would define ahead of time. This role has access to these records in these fields old. You'll also want to log when somebody logs in and maybe what queries they're running so that if you have some sort of compliance audit you can go back and say yes or no whether or not any of these compliance factors were being violated violated but being able to tied into role based access system makes it much easier for the administrators of the system to be able to maintain their sanity rather than having to every time somebody joins or leaves the company set what are the permissions for this individual individual. It's more what are their roles and then you might have layering of roles where somebody is the database administrator and also acts as a software engineer. Usually you can figure out what are the set operations for how those roles interact with each other to determine what is the overall calculus for their total set of permissions that are available. What role does the data warehouse play in modern data engineering so the data warehouse is probably the system that has the longest longest history and probably the most changing role in terms of data engineering and the overall sort of data ecosystem because data warehouses have existed pretty much since we've had databases and businesses so going back to the eighties in early ninety s and in those days it was usually the same type of database engine but it was maybe put on a bigger server or an and then there were also differences in terms of the way that you defined the data model for how everything was recorded so you wouldn't just take your application database and then copy it to another server and say this is the data warehouse usually have that transformation step where you convert the data into one of the more popular approaches which is called the snowflake Schema the star Schema but in current times data warehouses are now leveraging cloud cloud technologies so you're able to dump your raw data into something like as three and then have the data warehouse engine pull that data in and make it accessible and then you can actually do your transformations using the database engine itself just using sequel so there are projects such as D._B._T.? Or the data build tool where you actually define all your transformations just a select statements ends and then it will create the different views of your data but modern data warehouses also are generally column oriented as I've been talking about because it gives you that efficiency improvement of being able to analyze certain subsets of of the data across records without having to go record wise and then call them wise and also particularly with the ubiquity of cloud storage some people have moved to using data lake and layering on things like maybe Delta Lake to give it some of the similar semantics of data warehouse without having the data warehouse engine itself and one of the main reasons that data warehouses have been going through these transformations is because of the volume volume of data where older data warehouse systems just weren't able to really keep up so that's where we ended up with things like who do and the current movement of data lakes and also by forcing the data through a transformation step. There's always the sort of risk that you're going to have loss of information and so because of the fact that storage is so much cheaper people like to be able to store the raw data and then do the transformation after the fact so that if they change their mind about how they want to transform the data or the the different views that they want they still have the original records to then be able to go and reprocess everything and also buy things like more modern file formats such as parque where it itself as column oriented it makes it much more feasible to the able to save all of your data in cloud storage or something like that who do vile system and then process it using different engines that are built for that that don't necessarily have the data warehouse. You don't have to have as much upfront planning of above what does this Schema that I want so one of the possible approaches and one that is popular than larger enterprises is the idea of data curation where you land the raw data and data lake and then you have small team that is given access to that to be able to see what types of information they're pulling from that and then based on their usage patterns you start to define the necessary transformations that will allow you to evolve stepwise into a more concrete data warehouse house format that might power a business intelligence dashboard so the business intelligence system will have predefined queries that can run efficiently in a data warehouse engine for being able to get high level of us but then if you do still need to go deeper or perform more detailed analysis you still have the data lake to go back to using more custom-built tools or tools that are more suited for doing more of an exploratory approach to the data <music> spring. 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It's thank you to spring one platform. When I think about the architectural textual differences between data warehouse database and Data Lake I think of a data warehouse as a system that keeps a lot of data in memory so that it's very easy it access I think of a database as a lot of data on disk but with some indexes in memory that make it easier to access those records that are on disk this can also the the records are probably laid out on disk and away? That's easier to access individual records and then in the data lake. I think of a file system with a bunch of files that contain all the data <hes> but not in a easy to read quick fashion. Can you tell me your perspective for the different time and space trade-offs that these different mediums terms of data storage are making yeah so going in the reverse order so database systems. I think of as something where you need to be able to have quick real-time read and write access S. of I need to be able to write records and records and the specific pattern of read and rate depending on the usage might be semi random or might burst easy but for the most part they're going to be fairly equal in terms of read and write volume mm-hmm Data Lake in also going back to what you're saying about the way that the records are laid out database systems are definitely optimized for being able to write in retrieve rose at a time so that you can pull the entire higher information from that and then for data lakes it is as you said just a file system usually with Meta data management system accompanying it for being able to track what the data is where it's located. Maybe some of the semantics around the data such is who owns it when it was produced so that you have some way of keeping track of what data is where but it's much more just free form access of being able to pull different records from different places and an experiment with how you WANNA use it. It's not as prescriptive in terms of how the records are related to each other or even if they're related to each other and so it's generally going to be slower in terms of the read speed versus where you having a database and databases are also generally going to be record at a time transactions or maybe at the most on the order of a handful of records at a time within a given transaction whereas dealing with data lakes. You're probably going to be writing data into it. In batches of dozens or hundreds or thousands of records so on the order of megabytes or gigabytes versus kilobytes are megabytes in a database and then in data warehouse year sort of going back down to the smaller scale of data than the data lake but still much larger than the database where the data is re in in a way where it's easy to retrieve the data in sort of a contiguous fashion but rather than it being record at a time. It's probably going to be call him at a time and you're probably going to be writing data into it in batches rather than individual records like you would with a database and you're also going going to be retrieving aggregates of data at a time versus single or maybe dozens of records at a time like he would from a transactional database or I should say relational database also data warehouses prices are much more structured in the way that the data is represented versus data lake so that you are able to create indexes on them to optimize for the read patterns particularly for things like Bid Business Intelligence dashboards or more standardized reports and so data warehouses are also different in terms of the all three of those are different in terms of the consumer of the data so a relational database or document database is usually really going to be interfaced with some sort of application for reading and writing the data. It's usually not going to be a human doing all of that interaction whereas data lake. It's probably going to be much more of an exploratory use case where you have some sort of machine gene system bulk loading data into it but then you have a human drive in the other side of pulling data out for some sort of analysis until you get to appoint we have some sort of automated flow of maybe performing machine learning on it or doing some extraction the data from the data lake into a data warehouse or into some other secondary system and then from the data warehouse. It's probably going to be some sort of a business intelligence dashboard or some human doing sequel queries against it to do some sort have interactive analysis of the data in the system so differences in terms of the volume in terms of the speed of access in the sort of patterns of read and write and then also the consumer of the data so data warehouses are probably going to be more business and users so C._E._o.. C._I._O.. C._T._O.'s people who are right maybe working in marketing or sales to be able to pull reports whereas data lake is going to be more date engineers and data scientists working on it and an application database is going to be more software engineers and software systems interacting with how does data make it out of the data lake and into a data warehouse and what data is getting eating selected to put into that data warehouse from the data lake so going from the data lake to the data warehouse is usually going to be managed by some sort of E._T.. L. Tool although with modern data warehouses a lot of them. You're adding the capability of ingesting data directly from the engine so things like Click House and meme sequel both have capabilities built in for being able to pull data from sort of from some sort of cloud storage data lake and then loaded directly Lee into their system as far as the selection criteria. It's usually going through a point where you'll end the date and a data lake and then you have your data scientists or data engineers who are interacting and with that trying to build reports from it and figuring out what works in what's useful and then after they have come to that conclusion they will then co defy those transformations for determining how that scheme is represented and what it gets loaded into the data warehouse. They'll also figure out the frequency of data loading so whether it's you know daily batches weekly batches or if they're going to use some sort of streaming system for being able to write the EH records into the data lake then also perform a transformation on them and write them directly into the data warehouse at the same time. I have heard that data warehouses can be expensive. Why is that usually because data warehouses houses are trying to optimize both for large volumes and also for speed of access so for data lake you can usually get away with using inexpensive object storage and accept certain levels of latency eh whereas for a data warehouse you're trying to achieve similar volumes of data so you might have gigabytes or pedal bites of data stored directly in the data warehouse itself but then you also want to have it formatted and served in such a way that you can do interactive analysis of it so maybe things like big query or snowflake where you want to be able to process pet debates of data in a single query sorry and get a response back on the order of you know seconds two minutes whereas with Data Lake you might be working more with like a map produce style approach or being able to accept responses on the order of minutes two hours and so because of the fact that you're trying to optimize for both size and speed you're going to be working with a higher level of compute capacity as well as faster more near line data storage and also higher a bandwidth throughput so it's just because of the fact that you're trying to optimize for speed and storage but not quite on the same scale as the speed of a database or the storage of data lake so it's sort of in between those two in terms of the system system requirements and so it's just inherently inexpensive problem distributed cues like Kafka have played an increasing role in data engineering? Our people using distributed cues pretty much anyway you can imagine so at first it was just a solution for the problem of reliability of queuing systems so we've had things like rhythm Q. and active Q- quite a while of being able to publish data and then have multiple consumers but they all have some trade-offs or some issues as far as the reliability of the data and the durability of it in so Kafka was one of the first movers is on that front as far as having a persistent log structured q. where everything is stored potentially forever but in practice on the order of days or months and then being able to go back in history and reprocess all of those messages but also have different consumers consuming at different rates and so then they added on other capabilities such as being able to have functions that execute you on the records as they flow through to maybe generate alerts or performs in memory aggregations within a certain window so maybe window in the last fifty messages and figuring out what's the rolling average and just the fact that you have this historical record this durability guarantee and the ability to have consumers being able to use the data for different purposes and at different rates means that you're really only limited by immagination as far whereas how you want to use the data and where you want to go in practice. It's often used for being able to feed multiple downstream systems from a single data source so in the event of click stream analytics. You might have your data going into do a transactional system for being able to interact with it in sort of the limit near range time window you also have those same records going into your data lake for long-term storage and then you also have another consumer that's doing doing some lightweight transformations traded into data warehouse and so you have one data record being fed into multiple downstream systems without having to do that fan out from the source system itself you can just have one target for data creator to write to and then it doesn't have to care about what all the downstream systems that are going to want to use this down the road. How do you define the term data stream so a stream of data the way I think about it it it is either generally individual records being created in what's termed as sort of an unbounded stream so abounded stream would mean I have five records? They create. That's all there is an unbounded stream means. I might have fiber records might have five thousand. There's no way for being to know ahead of time. How many records they are going to be so I need to be able to just process them as they arrive a stream of data could also so be what we like to think of in terms of streaming for music or movies where you have just a flow of bits that are encoded to represent music or your favorite Netflix show but in the data engineering context? It's generally not quite that same terminology for data streams were usually talking about streams of individual records or events that have some sort of relation to each other in terms terms of the semantics of what they're producing not necessarily in terms of their contents so a stream of data coming from an IOT censor. You might have five million sensors deployed. All of them are writing into the same data stream so they're all the same same and they're coming from a sensor but not necessarily the same sensor or the same location or the same timeframe whereas movie stream. It's all for the same movie all contiguous each packet is representing a subsequent frame in the movie. I think one one thing that can be confusing is when you think of a stream you think of this moving body of water where if you put your hand in the stream just passes you buy and if you don't if you weren't to grab the water and pool it into your hands the water would just make its way past you you. Would you know you wouldn't be able to reclaim it but while the way that a stream works in data is that it is it just depend only thing so. It's not like if you don't catch the stream right now. It's GONNA go disappear. It's just added on its appended to continuously over the lifetime of that stream. Yeah I think more useful way to think about added is saying in a stream like you would see a nature. It's constrained by its banks but not by anything else and it's you know there is a start in an end but when you're experiencing it you know wherever you happen to come across it you don't know where they are. <hes> more useful analogy might be to think about the data stream as it's flowing through a pipe in your plumbing system where it's all still water. It's all still flowing but there are constraints in terms of where it can go and how much it can contain so in these big data distributed system streaming engines such as Kafka or pulsar on some level you think about it as being essentially infinite in terms of capacity but in reality it's not there is some mm-hmm capacity limit as far as what can be contained and if you don't have some sort of consumer pulling data out of it or some sort of life cycle management policy for how long record stays you are going to end up filling it up and then you might experience what's called back pressure from the source system where the source wants to write data into it but the streaming engine might either respond with negative acknowledgement to say I can't accept it or the data might just get dropped on the floor so you want to be able to process the stream team as flows through or you are going to start having you met end up with a flooded basement. Have you looked at the differences between Kafka and pulsar which are the ethic. The two popular open source district queuing systems yes so pulsar has the advantage of being the second mover in the space. Kafka was the one that sort of started this whole trend so Kafka came out of linked in and it was focused on being able to reliably reliably store events for a long period of time and it has a notion of topics and so the way that you scale a Kafka System in from a logical perspective is you add more topics to do it and so different topics usually correspond to different types of events that will be contained within them so the system itself will scale but the compute and the storage are sort of interlinked in the way that Kafka's built so oh you deploy a server it needs to have sufficient storage and compute processing capability for being able to handle the different topics pulsar came out of Yahoo and it is a little bit more flexible so Kafka is is just append only log who record whereas pulsar can be treated in that same fashion but it also has the capability of being able to represent things like A._M.. And used more. It's just a traditional pups. Eh message like you would you do with Rabbit Q.. It also has for the storage layer it uses something called bookkeeper which is another Apache project and so that means that you can scale the compute storage independently and it also has built in automatic life cycling the data so you can set a life cycle policy so that any records that have been in storage for longer than five days automatically get written to as three or Google cloud storage and so it means that the amount of data that it can store from the end user perspective as larger but the system itself doesn't actually have to be able to have all of it directly accessible and then you still use the same Amihai for interacting with a you just might have to accept certain levels of latency for older data. That's been tiered out to other object stores pulsar also because of the fact that their second mover and Kafka was already such a significant force in the space they added A._p._I.'s that make a compatible with Kafka so that in theory you can actually just drop it into a system where you're already using Kafka and not have to change your application code at all so pulsar has a little bit of benefit in terms of flexibility and in terms of deployment as well as in terms of the usage patterns Kafka however has a much larger ecosystem build up around it of systems that are already built to operate with it so they're both very good systems from what I've been able to tell <hes> they're both written Java. They're both Apache projects so <hes> they're pretty well supported and well adopted but definitely worth looking at the two of them when if you're in a new system and you're trying to figure out which one to us in which one fits your use cases better pulsar I know also has a pulsar functions capability for being able to execute arbitrary code on individual records. Kafka also has a similar capability as a software engineer. Chances are you've crossed paths with Mongo DB at some point whether you're building an APP for millions of users or just figuring out a side business as the most popular non relational database Mongo DB is intuitive and incredibly easy for development teams to us now with Mongo DB atlas. You can take advantage of Manga. D._B.'s flexible document data model as a fully automated cloud service Mongo DB atlas handles all of the costly database operations and administration tasks the you'd rather not spend time on like security and high availability data recovery and monitoring and elastic stick scaling try Mongo DB Alice today for free by going to Mongo DB DOT COM slash S. E. to learn more could among a DB DOT com slash s. e. and you can learn more about Mungo DB DB atlas as well as support software engineering daily by checking out the new Mongo DB Atlas server `less solution for Mongo DB. That's Mongo DB DOT COM slash S. e.. Thank you to Mongo DB for being a sponsor sponsored earlier. You mentioned the evolution of the Data Lake and the data warehouse in terms of data bricks Delta or I guess maybe it's called Spark Delta or something anyway the Delta project which I know came out of data bricks. Can you describe bribe what you're seeing there. In the evolution between the data lake in the data warehouse in how Delta Lake epitomizes that or just described that project in more detail sure actually had the pleasure interviewing doing one of the architects of that project past thank you so Delta Lake is one of those projects that sort of blurs the line between data lake and data warehouse so the way that functions is it is all built on top of spark as the engine that code is it. It's standardizes on the parque file format. It uses whatever sort of object storage so whether it's the hoop file system as three Google of cloud storage it adds transactional semantics on top of the data so that you can have acid guarantees for the way that you're writing your records Oh and then it also has built in capabilities for. Setting expectations of what the data is going to be so that you can have quality controls of the data as it flows into your system and then one possible design pattern is that you can land all of your raw data into your data lake and be able to make use of it but then you can progress it through different levels of curation so you'll end the raw data in and then you define some transformations to write it out into a separate set of table spaces that are more structured and more akin to a data warehouse and then graduate at two different levels until it's into a sort of well-defined Schema ties fashion the same way as what you would interact with in a data warehouse house but it's all still in just year object storage of choice and your interface is still the spark A._p._i.. So you can use sparks equal to query it. You can use all the other capabilities of spark for being able to machine learning on the data it all still resides in your Data Lake Jacob. You're able to have the same types of quality guarantees and transactional semantics is what you would have in data warehouse so depending on the business that year and you might actually not need to have a data warehouse at all because of the fact that you're getting some those guarantees teas from the Delta Lake Project. Tell me about the typical data engineering problems that are being encountered by enterprises so I know you work as a consultant Tint and you also talked to a lot of different companies. Just give me a perspective for what the average company is going through in terms of data engineering so I think one of the biggest problems right now that companies are going through who is the issues of data cataloging and data discovery and the issues of data quality and what's called master data management so particularly for large enterprises. You'll have a lot of different systems that are going to be producing data different systems that are consuming data and at a high level so the C._e._o.. Of the business they WANNA know what data do I have. That's a big problem of hard problem to answer and so that's where you're seeing a lot of data management systems and data cataloging systems becoming more prevalent in the last year or two and so that's for being able to hook that into the overall life cycle of all of your data systems so that you can say do do I have any health information and then you'll say okay. It's in this application database over here or it's in this data lake over here. This is the Schema Four. This is the last time there was a record written to it. This is the owner the person on record who I need to contact if I have have any issues with it or if I want to find out more and so just being able to know what data there is what ways is it being used what jobs are producing it and consuming it being able to track the overall lineage of the data from when it was I I created all the way to all the end users of that data system so there's a project called Marquez at we work. There's a project called Amazon out of lift that are both trying to solve similar problems in that space of discovery and access and the being able to track the lineage of the data and then the other issue that is a corollary to that is master data management where you have five different systems that interact with your customers. You have your C._R._M.. You have your application databases. Where customers are purchasing from you have information coming from social media channels? You have <hes> website analytics of people who haven't signed in but they're interacting with your different web properties and you want to be able to say what are the interaction patterns of one individual across all of these channels so you need to be able to have some way of correlating all of those different systems and the records within them to say with some level of confidence that these are all related to this customer or these are related to this project to this product and then being able to perform analyses across all of those and then that master data management system ties into all the other downstream analytical systems for determining determining. What are the semantics around the data? How do I define what the user is? How do I define what a customer is what a product is and which products are all pointing to the same which product I._D.'s are pointing to the same actual product in my system system from the date engineer problems that you see are they largely technology problems or are they more rooted in process problems or in the problems of human dynamics and the roles not being properly defined in those kinds of things so technology is a piece of it but you know in my experience just the human factors are generally what lead to a great deal of complexity exited in any technological system so taking the master data management problem as as a case in point you know if it was just a matter of technology than you would have somebody define these are the ways that we track all of these different attributes? It's across all of these different systems and then you don't even have to have some sort of sophisticated matching technology downstream to try and recombine things because that would already be solved but because you have different people and different systems with different ideas as of how things need to be represented all creating these different data records you then have this messy problem of. How do I join them all back together to be able to get a cohesive view of how a customer is interacting with all of my different products similarly for for you know Click Stream analytics for instance you might have a Schema? That's supposed to come in from your system but then different users will be you know having different ad blocking technologies or they might have different plug ins that will corrupt the data says it's coming in and so there are a lot of different human elements that come into it but then they're also technological aspects of near the network is unreliable so packets Mike it dropped so I don't know with any certainty that I'm getting all of the data from this source system so for instance for Iot. This sensor might be sending data that I'm not retrieving and I don't know it unless I have some way of a sequencing the transmission I._D.'s so I know okay this has i._d.. Five and the next packet I get his I._D.. Eddie fifteen so I know I lost ten packets but I don't know what's in them and I have no way of recovering them so it's a combination of technical and human aspects but human aspects are generally the ones that are more challenging to overcome. Can I get a full data engineering stack from from a cloud provider or do I need to go outside of the cloud provider and assemble a set of tools from open source software so Amazon is definitely doing. It's best to make sure that you can get everything under the sun from them but there are a number of cloud providers that are doing really good job of providing a lot of the primitives for being able to build your antenna solution using just all of their managed services you might still have to do a little bit of glue to tie some of them together there but the state of the are right now for cloud providers is definitely progressing where depending on your needs you could just use everything off the shelf from your cloud provider of choice and not have to pull in anything open source. It really depends on what are your needs. What scale are you operating? And how comfortable are you just using a blackbox versus having an open source product that you can tinker with and delve into on your own and you know understand what why things these are breaking at the end of the day so I'd say for small to medium scale businesses or small to medium scale projects it should definitely be possible to just use cloud offerings but when you get into uncharted territories or larger scale analytics politics you're probably GonNa WanNa start bringing in either different open source options or building in your own custom capabilities that fit your specific use case. What do you think of the term new sequel? I think that it is just more sort of energy industry jargon not wanting to admit that everybody was wrong when they said that sequel is dead but in terms of what it's actually intending to represent so to give a bit of history so there was the era of sequel which is relational database system so post grads my sequel Oracle Microsoft sequel all those different systems and they scaled to a certain point but then when we started hitting the Internet the era where we were generating Peta Bites of information those systems weren't able to scale horizontally enough and be able to provide the performance that we needed so then we ended up with what people were doug no sequel systems where they didn't have those transactional optional semantics and acid guarantees they were built more for horizontal scale and there wasn't necessarily any consistency guarantees as far as a record being written in one place and represented everywhere usually ended up with eventual consistency and they also didn't always have a predefined Schema so they were called Schema list but it just means that it was scheme on read instead of scheme on right and then there are a few years of that people started to realize that that had its own set of problems. I mean they're great. Technologies technologies for certain use cases but they don't solve everything and so now there's a move back to using sequel as the as the A._p._i.. Interface and then also moving back towards a relational semantics and transactional semantics but building in horizontal scale ability so things like cockroach DB Google Cloud Spanner Fonda DB is sort of in that camp but they don't actually use sequel as their language but essentially it's databases is that are moving back to using sequel as the interface they're going back to using relational semantics but they're built in a way to be able to scale horizontally so you can get much higher availability in distribution and scale ability but you're still using the familiar sequel interface. You're used to so that's that's usually what I think of when I hear new sequel so it's returned back to relational semantics but with horizontal scaling built in how has coober netties changed the world of data engineering so mccoubrey nutty is is an interesting aspect of the day engineering landscape right now. I don't think it was ever really intended originally to be solution for the data problem it was more for application deployment and management management but because of the fact that it is a distributed systems framework it means that a lot of people are trying to use their other distributed systems within this for deployment and maintenance because deploying a maintaining distributed district systems is hard and Kuban Eddie's has made that simpler not gonNA say easy because it's still not easy but it's easier to reason about and there are also a lot of managed offerings so that you can run a lot of your application stack within Cooper Netease and use a similar set of A._p._i.'s and semantics for how your entire system is managed but I'm definitely seeing a lot of activity of different database vendors under an open source database systems as well as tools like spark and Kafka being adding what are called Kuban Eddie's operators to make it easier to deploy and manage these data systems within a Kuban Eddie's environment so so one of the challenges that was faced originally was the data persistence problem where the originally Cubans who's intended for stateless workloads where you have a web server and if it needs to be destroyed and rebuild or moved to a different physical server it doesn't really matter because it didn't have any of its own data that needed to care about which obviously isn't the case for databases and so now Kuban Eddie's has the concept of stateful sets where you're able to say with some guarantee that this service or this application process needs to be located with this actual data storage and so it's just a set of A._p._i.. Primitives in terms of how it's actually implemented is up to the the distribution of Cuban Eddie's specific installation but it means that when you deploy a database application it's going to be located with its data so you still get some of the guarantees of ease of deployment with the associated associated guarantees of this data is where this application is going to be deployed with its data so that's made it much more possible for building for bringing some of these data oriented workloads into Kuban Eddie's itself one of the more interesting entrance the sort of Kuban Eddie's data engineering spaces pachyderm which is leveraging containers and cloud storage for building an entire they disci- pipeline within Kuban Eddie's itself focused on docker containers and cloud storage storage for being able to provide virgins data sets its twenty nineteen. You and I did show a little more than a year ago. What if you learned about data engineering in the last year? That is a good question so I've gained a lot more perspective on the common themes in the data space as far as what are the challenges that are somewhat universal across organizations and across projects. I've learned a lot more about about some of the differentiating factors for projects that at face value seem like they're doing the same thing and it's confirmed a lot of my initial ideas around what I like to call mechanical mechanical sympathy of making sure that whenever you're building an application or a system that you're keeping in mind the physical limitations that are inherent in the universe and making sure that you are optimizing your architecture design nine for what's actually possible with these different systems also learned a lot more about some of the deeper details about database systems and some of the concerns that go into those and yeah just in general gained a lot more perspective and broad understanding of the entire landscape to buy maisy. I'm a fan of your podcast. Thanks for coming back on the show. Thank you for having me again. Go C._D.. Is a continuous delivery. A tool from thought works if you have heard about continuous delivery but you don't know what it looks like an action. Try the GO CD test drive at go CD DOT ORG SLASH S daily go CDs test drive will set up for example pipelines for you to see how go CD manages your continuous delivery workflows visualize your deployment pipelines and understand which tests are passing an which tests are failing continuous delivery helps you release your software faster and more reliably check out. Go CD by going to go CD DOT ORG slash daily and try out go CD to get continuous delivery for your next project.

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Season 4-Episode 18  Crowleys India-Tobias Churton

Thoth-Hermes Podcast

00:00 sec | 6 months ago

Season 4-Episode 18 Crowleys India-Tobias Churton

"So he's podcast. Welcome to the world of the Western Esoteric tradition. Hello friends and listeners. Welcome to episode of season. Four after Source Hermes podcast. My name is Rudolf. I am your host and I'm greeting you from the outskirts of Austria's lovely capital Vienna. Today is may the third twenty twenty and our episode today is called. Crawley's India yes curly's India which has been the topic of highly interesting book by today's guest who is Tobias Churton Tobias. We've not the first time here under thought Hermes podcast. I'm happy draft back a little more about this later. I hope you are coping with the difficult times that we are all going through at the moment. I'm glad to say that I have so far. Been happy not to be touched too much by all this matter but I know I'm a lucky person and know many others and many of you probably as well haven't had much luck as I have so my best wishes and my thoughts go to all of you who are in trouble those days. Thank you for being with us here today. Anyway and maybe this hour and a half in our company here will give you little bit of other salts and points of view and we all of course hoped that we all get through this phase in good shape and in good health and Israel will get out of it more or less unharmed. We should to all of you Well I don't know if this is your first time on the podcast or if you are a returning listener well greetings to all of you. Who are here for the first time. And if you have not found out more about our podcast yet to go on. The website is www source. Hermes DOT COM. That is T. H. O. T. H. E. R. M. E. S. dot com there. You do not only fide all the episodes of saucer podcast as I said. We are already bestowed eighteen off season four so they are basically sixty episodes out there that you can listen to and you can also find show notes and all the information about this of cost and its guests with links to their books their websites etc etc up. So I think it's really worth it to go there and also if you wanted to get in touch with me and I say I do laugh feedback so go on the website and send me voice. Mail there on the first page you see on the right little tab. Click on that. And it's a free voicemail you can send you or go into contact. Page said message from there. Why not send email as well info at sauce Hermes Dot Com and if all of that is not yours email. You go on twitter or on facebook leafy messages there or even a comment on Youtube and maybe this is to remind you to things and remind this to all of you here even those who are regulars we also have an audio only version of course in audio version of this podcast on Youtube. And you can listen to it there. If you prefer and leave comments right the second thing I would like to mention that does not work on youtube but on our podcast players on your podcast players you can always use chapter us. We have chapters where you can jump to certain points. Within the podcast to each musical piece that we play the beginning of the interview to the second part of the interview and the ultra. So if you want to jump directly there have a look at those chapter markers which are integrated our podcast and you'll be able to move around. Yes now I'm going to talk about Tata Atrium. Thanks to all of you. Who have in the meantime become patrons of this show we have more than tripled our members our patrons here but well there is still some headroom. I think those two thousand six hundred listeners each week and we are now just under thirty. Saas uncertainty patron so. Maybe there are few more of you out there. We start those difficult times already at one dollar per episode so normally it's to the lowest level but while we are in this corona period. I've decided to give another level fat one dollar per episode. And if more of you were joined there that really helps me to sustain and to maintain this podcast and also to develop new things right. Well thanks again to those who have already become patrons and looking forward to see more of you dare right. I won't keep you much longer today. sometimes I get the T- during these intros here. I'm sorry some of you feel it's too chatty but I just need to be in touch with you and to half. A little word withdrew from time to time right so now it's music time right okay differently. I will play you the peace I and I will let you know what it was and who it was who performed and sang that piece that we're going to hear afterwards you'll find out why so let's go and just listen to this. I do Komo. Strathspey could talk Matt but now standing on the face a mystery. A chance leverage the ground a platform she. She dropped before junior red rain. Start with pain. Came but now standing on the deck of a visas. Do the mystery in space mentioned when the DAS- Until Don is only Nice Little Song. Mindy old style isn't it? Yes well guess what that was. The song is called Levy to chance with the question. Mark actually leave it to chance question. Mark and dwell the author and the artist performing. The song is Tobias Churton. Yes those of you who have been with back. On the second time he appeared on this show he already performed his music there for us. And so you already know a new debts. Tobias was also a very prolific musician. Not only a very prolific author and the other two pieces we are going to hear today are of course also him. Thank you Tobias for giving them to us really enjoyed dead so that was leave it to chance question mark can auto-biographical song in the style about Romans and when to go for it to buy put himself okay and that brought US already into the middle of the announcement of what's to come now. Which is our interview with Tobias? Churton as I just mentioned. It's not the first time that is with us here on the show and you're going to hear that tragic beginning of into you is his third appearance here and and it's always such a pleasure to talk to him. I could I could imagine is not going to be the last time either and right so also a reason why he is here for the third time is that he is really writing so interesting books and at quite a regular rhythm. I must say I was about his book. Con ESTA Croly in America. And then he came back on his book about the sixties and that was also very interesting. Chattan in the same way. We continue today on his new one which is as croly in India. Visibly Alyssa Kroll is. A personality has always fascinated by explaining to US India interview. Why is and also why those also the three that I just mentioned that we have presented here in more indepth situations that these books always one follows out of the one that came before so there is some logic in that development. And I'm sure you're gonNA feel that also in the interior. We're going to have to stay. Which is a lot about? Lsd Crawley and his pass through India and returned from India which is just as important. But it's not only. How could he be with Tobias? We always get into very interesting. Discussions and details. It's as I say. Always fascinating to talk to him and I'm quite sure it's also always fascinating to listen to him okay. I won't keep you any longer but just before we go to England and meet Tobias Greek reminder that in the middle of injury about thirty five minutes into our interview today we have a little break a musical break as always and come back and a little chat between okay. Let's go and meet Tobias. Church in here comes the interview and now we are beating a new record on the Alzheimer's broadcast because it's the first time we have somebody for search time for an interview hunt his show and somebody less than Tobias Churton who. I'm very happy to welcome back here for thermes. Podcasts Tobias. Hello good afternoon to you. However lovely survey here as you say no less than two bus. Well that's also good. Called podcast Greater Tobias and the reason that we are getting together otherwise. It's always good talk to you but the reason today why we're meeting is no less than again because we already met about. Tim. Once when you had freshly published to your book in America and that was really fascinating the and and now there is another really fascinating book. That came out a few months ago. We intend to speak earlier but time being what it is it only was possible now and so this time it is about address across India and I would really like to. I may give me your intention. Why you why you stat very special periods in life. I admit why you picked it to out to to make a whole book about it because I think it's essentially period for his life and for what followed. Yes I think. All my books tend to grow. One grows out of another and the book before this was the the book about the nineteen sixties the spiritual meaning of the sixties which we also spoke about here on the podcast. Good Idea I think in that book I wanted to get to exactly what specific Hindu influences were in the nineteen sixties though particularly strong. How can we explain the popularity of Krishna Consciousness or Maharishi Mahesh Yogi? The I had to get to grips with separating these traditions because in the West we tend to lump it all together an end with a theological soft Nirvana bits of meditation. And you're almost there and what I wanted to do is to clarify for people what we mean when we talk about the or adviser one of those terms actually mean and it became interesting to me that one way of approaching the analysis of Hindu religion rather than writing an encyclopedia of Hindu religion. Which probably unease going to confuse more was to take cronies experience of it because it was so infamous but also so challenging. I mean he never accepted an idea like that because it came along it had to go through a process so in cronies coming to terms with Indian religion it gave me an opportunity to clarify the very great differences in positions that exists within different schools of Indian thoughts. And obviously the very great difference which is so often obscured between Buddhism and Hinduism in its assessment of the human soul so currently was a good vehicle for that and of course when I got into that idea I also realize what a great story it was and that the story hasn't been told as unity and the people often wonder when they pick up a book by early on Magic. Why the first thing that they're introduced to is is getting into an Asana and doing yoga and people have done this. I know they did it in the sixties without too much thought. That's what you're supposed to be always struck me as a bit strange. So that supposed to be magic western tradition. And the first thing we're talking about is Diana and Donna and Samadi and all of these different trances as being relevant to magic. I would have thought most people thought. There's a great difference between mystical meditation and Performing Acts of magic which may have no particularly sacred value in themselves at all so again. Trying to explain why croly emphasized the study of Yoga was also important to understanding croly and it also helps us to understand yoga. The other interesting thing was this whole notion that croly was sex magician and the tea was a tantrum freak and of course it was fascinating to find out that. Tantrum was the subject which he was very little interested. It He didn't he didn't get his sexual doctrine from time tra- hardly at all. He was always in the background of call. Kellner Theodor Royce's view of the ninth degree and the idea that there was an eastern sacred wisdom of sex. That was important to them. Credit wasn't really terribly interested in the tantric traditions. He'd seen in India and he wasn't interested I think he was sort of rather repelled by the world in which ten tantric operated in India wasn't really his seen a tall and I don't even know if he ever even read Woodruff's studies of of Contra Rhythm and you know there was this other thing that came about in all the biographies of Crowly of any any value. They mentioned that clearly in his last years. David Cohen and Henrik Bogdan stunner book of the letters between Croly and David Cohen. Who is a practising alchemists in the nineteen forties? I had a massive impact on Kenneth Grant. Curly's Soi follow but in fact so I found that would have been persuaded by Cohen's comments that he was a great time tra- expert but it turned out as I found out in the book that he co in source for his country. Thinking was in fact a group of people in India who is using cronies books. Well that's what you call. The short kids ends up being Indian religion from. Oh Gee by Indians for export to the West. That's the kind of killer sting at the end of the book where I explain not be I think I hope I'd like to think it would be a surprise for fans however I found that crony fans are never surprised by anything because they knew all already. It's very difficult to educate somebody who claims a long term interest in crazy. They know his old. I mean but however I think even even they may be disturbed just lethal by this ripple. That clearly was not a tantric master which is often described as being wasn't he's back he didn't approach it from that angle. It'll so you know there was so much to reveal in this croly and India thing right. The other motive was a lot of young people. I've met right through my life including in a way myself. I have this romantic notion of going to Katmandu and getting acquainted with a spirituality of these and I wanted to put all that all of the joysticks Doane bagels marriage. You know I saw God all this stuff I I wanted to give. People were interesting into real insight into just how this this western Indian mythology has developed. And you'd if you read my book Kathleen you'd be well armed when you and then you seal up more than you would otherwise notice so it's sort of it's sort of everyman's guide to India going. Say when I read the book I was surprised that it it's much more than actually talking about about growing India. It's also talking a lot about India today. And that's that's a surprise. That's real so to me but you said you mentioned something that wouldn't have been parked or wouldn't have liked to be part of that tantric family in India at the time. Why would that be? Would that have through with his background or was under other reasons for that? I think he'd he'd been in the marketplaces of Ozzy. Calcutta Delhi Gra and and down South in Madurai Meenakshi temple and he could see that a lot of the practice religion in India. The that was most obvious to people was a kind of public scam and the people are very easily impressed by somebody who has joined cloth sits by the side of the road Begs for alms looks pretty intense spot above his nose. And all this thing and I think I think he he he was a great cynic about this sort of thing if you read his book about Jesus which when I bought it was called Croly on Christ. That wasn't his title. He called it. The Gospel. According to Saint Bernard Shaw. He basically says that you know if you saw what. I'd seen in India. You'd understand why what we mean by the King's visiting Jesus and things like this he said I kings visit me when he's on his way to tae two kings meaning a local sheikh chief so to say and he was he. He translated everything he saw in their back into terms which might scientific sense to him. And he wasn't bamboozle by the mystery of mythology. That's all he wanted is the thing about crazy. He was always looking for the science of the magic so he he would have been. If people take themselves in manure and sat in a corner covered with Ash Temple in bananas over an acid depending which version you prefer a he he he would have just seen guide coveted ash and excrement and as we thought that was he interested in why they did it but otherwise. I think he'd he'd regard is as a superstitious world With a superstitious religion covered with a lot of superstitious moral coaching. The obscured a more ancient notice so in that sense. I don't think he he always talked about the Greasy Swamy. And I said if I behave to you some of these gurus to I wouldn't let you in my room but I'm I'm not. I'm not putting a barrier between me. I'm not saying I am the greatest lights and keep your distance. Bring your gifts to me and all this sort of thing. He could play the part. He could easily have set up in India as as a Yogi young and manufactured mental experiences and believers. But he didn't so. I think in that sense he was cynical about India culturally. Speaking again this. This might be a dangerous question but you as you might be able to answer that whilst the time and time and the relation between the British Empire and India at the time when Croly was there did that play part in his views on it or was he. You think free of dad off that colonialistic type of you. Well clearly didn't like colonial types of a tickly. He's viewpoint was complex. I don't think he he would have thought himself racially superior. He thought the English as he's a thought Indian culture civilization as a whole view that as what it did was vastly superior to Western industrialized slavery. That he'd come from and he thought that many of us were were sound and generous and interesting and all that on the other hand I think he would have felt that the largest number of the population of India the uneducated while they had certain native savvy as we say in skills ability to survive which was impressive I think he probably felt that. Western people were meant mentally more advanced. And in that insofar as that might be true in an individual case superior to the average Indian. But you've also got to. You've got to qualify. You qualify all of that. I think very difficult for an Englishman's go to India in one thousand nine hundred a not know that you're on the winning side to to a large extent and these people are in some ways dependent on the government on the wise government that you had imposed upon them quite escape that having said that he had no time for the typical. British officer tight. Who Imagine that. By being born English he was therefore superior he'd taken a lot from Madame levesque's praise all the Indian Shastri's and that was unusual he was also prepared to disqualify Christianity which is a major cultural. Move that relation. Yeah he was planning with his friend. Alan Bennett to bring Buddhism back to England if I think if Crowley hadn't had the Selima eruption in Cairo in nineteen hundred four we would have probably led the first sign from Rangoon with Alan Bennett and tried to persuade the British. That the the the only solution rationally to our problem with Buddhism he was incredibly impressed by the original Buddhist doctrine but again he was deeply unimpressed by the superstitious way that this was promulgated in Solano shrank as it's called now I think he's as well. There is a superb Buddhist philosophy actual practice of I thought was totally corrupt. And he talks about when he went to Rangoon. Seeing boy hydrocare fullest. Boy The huge. Yeah had an steeply. Ill sitting by the the famous Shriek. Pagoda in Rangoon. Surrounded by all these priests are all in different and he was obviously hoping for some kind of blessing the difference he saw between Buddhism original philosophy and the practice of but it was so great for him that he had little bit contempt for the the ordinary Buddhist Segovia this priest and he also knew anyway that this idea that they're all peace-loving was another fiction because as we've seen in Burma recently when they put his priests get angry as angry as anybody absolutely. Yeah true true. Did he get in direct touch and in good? I mean the risk barracks touch with the bone tradition old Tibetan Buddhism. Also at the time he his he never got to Tibet. Probably like skeet. Never got to Bet. They were in what was called. Little Tibet's new northern Kashmir sometimes called little Tibet curly never expressed an enormous amount of interest in Tibet. I think he he was interested in the Theravada tradition which is the oldest Buddhist tradition which in countenance curious available form in in Salon and I think having encountered that absorbed it written about it Argued himself with it eventually. Rejected it fundamentally. I think he'd had enough of of the Buddhist tradition. I mean I would say in these matches. You can't teach truly a great deal the way the the way the eastern the eastern traditions still promulgated in the West the something tremendously special because the words difficult to remember and the concepts have to be expressed in poor English has tended to make Western people feel a little bit too respectful of Oriental Philosophy. Because he's actually a learning process even at the basic level of words but this is also a trick. Because if you go back to India in the nineteenth century the Indian intellectual felt exactly the same about British science or German philosophy that it was something they had to learn because they had to learn it. See more superior than it was. This is just what happens when people visit each other's culture. They're faced with a learning problem. When I first went to Germany there was a learning problem. That makes you feel a little bit inferior because you know. And that's but crony actually sole right through that and he's his view was human beings are basically the same round the world but they've been shaped by the history traditions cetera etcetera but he was a highly highly critical of his own culture and he didn't go to the East for nothing he did go to learn. That was my next question. What initially did bring him. I think three Lanka was is I I? Yeah I did ride. What brought was was several factors but probably the chief was he was kind of Solo. Adept quest. He was on his personal grand tour but he'd be forced into that because he'd fallen out with the Golden Dawn medic order of the Golden Dawn in London and completely cut him off from his initiated process and route and he then went to America and he was. He was nearly a year in Mexico. Not Climbing mountains the first five months. We're not quite sure what he was doing. He arrived under pseudonym Kili Raw. Because I've put in the curly in America book which is still a bit of a mystery going on there. I can say for sure but he went. He went to Shankar Salon. Because Alan Bennett was an anonymous was the one man he really looked up to in that period especially when magic and religion was concerned an benefit thrown his entire life into Buddhism and Raja Yoga and he'd given up the magical tradition. I think that also interested clearly. What was so great about Buddhism and Raja Yoga that he he would be prepared to throw away his training in the go to golden dawn for clearly wanted to know what was he what was missing out on and so he he wanted to practice succeeded. Yoga. The other thing was I think. Crowley already had the idea. Because it started the sacred magic of Aber Mellon the major in eighteen ninety nine burlesque. It late eighty nine. He didn't erupted it to go and support Maitha with the battle with the London order and I think he'd already been got some notion I think in his mind that Samadi anyway that the ultimate union of Raja was the same. As the knowledge in conversationalist the Holy Guardian Angel Right Man. That's one of his great insights whether it came to him then before all much lace is not clear but certainly by nine hundred ninety five he would have regarded the achievement of Somalia's identical to the knowledge and conversation the Holy Guardian Angel and that brings eastern and Western esoteric traditions straight together get really creates a neo-nazism without him. Even realising had done I think in a way. What DID MOM. Lewinsky's influence have to do in that. Was she also by going to see Bennett? Whilst that also inciting him to go to India yes had a massive effect on Bennett more. I think than on Croly Bennett. His first experience when he comes to salon in early. Nineteen hundred is to lecture the Officer Lodge of hope in Colombo and he lectures to the Office on Buddhism which is exactly what that ski a done Twenty years earlier because the journey that cruelly made in the keeps profess along. Because that's the name Credit Sir Stretcher. she was always when I was a boy anyway on a ski had done exactly the same trip in Salon. She'd gone to Salon. Told the Buddhists they were right that they were right to oppose the Christian missionaries. They were right to oppose the Church of England. They were right to question the bishops who came to convert them to Christianity Boulevard. Ski Done that now that that hugely the fact that she stood up against the Christian church I mean before I wrote the book. I read the three volume account of Bishop e books. Who was the first Anglican bishop of Calcutta who went sitting in eighteen? Twenty four and the first part of the boat which had to cut for reasons of length which is booking itself was about the whole British religious engagement with India. An I go from the book probably rightly but it was. It was fascinating because the trip that Hiba Bishop Ebay does rounding it started in is exactly what he does and then cruelly does it as well almost down to the same towns really. Yeah so you know cronies. Following levesque's footsteps has no data. And so was Alan Bennett. But once Alan Bennett decided to commit a Theravada Buddhism he then goes to Rangoon and trains to become a a Bingo and and to to become An enlightened and clearly didn't go all the way with him on that but they they had a constant dialogue. Nobody can be exactly sure how benefits came to see. Currently in Lacey is there have been stories put around that he condemned cronies magic But I I the when you actually examine the material that doesn't appear to be the case. I think they had a mutual respect right through and as I say clearly was to all intents and purposes in one thousand nine hundred and three Buddhist and still a Buddhist in one thousand nine hundred four even the author Kyra but Kyra represent something. He's in a revolt against Buddhism. It's it's it's his revolt. Against the first noble truth in everything is sorrow which clearly had been convinced of sensitively stage of about nineteen twenty after his experience in in his final year at Cambridge when he displays of light in this world and obviously all of this is a great deal for any active today to to to cut his teeth on learn from absolutely. I think it's a pasta Di as you describe it here at from from searching in magic than going into booze isn't creating your own offices message. Us Call it through Tundra. Somehow even if you didn't do exactly that way and that is a past that is in followed by many seekers nowadays and it is very modern pass. I mean I'm not saying it's my personally I would say but it's something that I hear a lot about about that particular path through narcissism fell theme Buddhism that that mixture individual mixture partly of it. Do you would you agree to that? But I think it's perfectly obvious that is the case and has been for many years Before the sixties as well I mean the sixty sort of popularization of what people have been doing for some decades. I think Crowley's a bit of a pioneer sure And he's creative with his with his sources and he's always fun to read anyway because he had a wonderful way of writing which engage your intellect very precisely on the issues. I think we cannot speak and he did. Of course big accounts be cruel in India without speaking about him also as mountain near right of course because he's time he time spent climbing the Himalayas was certainly also very very important phase of his life. But maybe a different way. How how would you see that? Well I think does the NFL. Climb THE ASSENT. The analog vast amounts analog. If you're familiar with that one can dialogue is the is the external essent. You obviously going to see a lot. More of the world from the peak of a mountain. In from the bottom of evaluate your perspective is going to be massively increased. One of the things that was fascinating was when crazy was thinking of guy when he was planning to go up. Ketu he's reading. H G WELLS IS BOOKED. The first man in the Moon. Now really yeah. He's and he's I think he was really interesting. Was the idea of getting to the stars actually And you you think. That was part of his motivation. There yes he'd started as a mansion is for his health edvin random recommended to him by Joseph Lister of the pioneer of sterile medicine. In Switzerland he met lister in the sky and Scotland in one thousand. Nine hundred one. When when he was on the holiday with his mother and he'd been bullied at school he had terrible stomach problems and wants to children found out from two minutes stomach and at one terrible school he went to Cambridge. She was who nearly died from the bullying and the torture. So first of all mountaineering built up his strength but the other thing that mansion hearing is while you do it with other people it's still a lonely solitary kind of thing And so you you build up close team but you're still very much on your own and that's what got me interested in early in. The first place was odd started mountaineering when I was eighteen and when I went to Oxford I went to mountaneering club and somebody was talking about croly. And that's the first time I heard about it in the context of mountains and as I was also interested in poetry and mysticism. Obviously he seemed to me like. Oh there's somebody else sizing one was always on the lookout for interesting outstanding individuals and they don't come much more interesting outstanding than I was cruelly and that's why he annoys so many small minded people who can't bear anything that is beyond their own bounds in a crazy was very far out. Let's face it and when you think of what he was doing in this period nineteen hundred he just seems to be completely out of his time was the interesting thing. He's in a completely different reality but a bit like Freud at the same time right he he nearly as tedious as Freud. Not absolutely well. He speaks to the Austrian. Doesn't it well? He went to Britain fried wind. Ridden den Niki with that. No but seriously but but he he was ahead of his time to say also by going to Indian but what did he bring back? Your part of the book is I think bears an extraordinary titled India in Croly Right. It's not close in India Indian curly and I find that duality of the two parts of the book fascinating. What's what India is there in Croly? Well I think they obviously what he brought back from. India was not only a cosmic perspective which he gained from his climbing on his traveling and his ability to see so many different coaches working in one society but with the enormous amounts of relatives intolerance between them so he could see that division of humanity is certainly from from observing in there I think India has been is arrests. Th E A western imagination very very profoundly anyway because as a phenomenon is just simply an extraordinary collection of people. How how do they manage to live you? Know in these extraordinary circumstances and And and keep smiling you. But really what he brought. What he what they. The India he brought back was was the was. I think this primarily I mean I talk about his engagement with one particular book which was the Fidelity Raj Yoga by some party. Swamy now I think that that was a book that he brought back studied and I think kind of internalized it when you study this book. Vidana who's been Bob about the book by very very unusual. Swamy goes subaquatic. Who had who'd out of vision of Sheva in his youth experienced somebody at the age of twenty in his early twenties which I think was also ambition of clearly he had studied with Sufi teaches in the science of India and attended Sufi and he'd also been trained as a Christian school so some about the former interesting one because he's already kind of was sort of comparative religious. Yeah now he. He developed his own system of Raja. And what is utterly fascinating about it from my point. Not necessarily from Crowley's was that if you read the how he talks about the the journey of the ATMA through the shock crews and backup to the to the crown you see immediately to things long as the entire NAS tick system if the second third century which is the journey of Sofia through the tree. Joel to awaken Jesus in the Tomb and bring back up to the PLEURA. That's try to and of course you see the tree of life the cabbalistic tree where you can see the Steph era as soon as the shock Chris and you can also see old testaments. This isn't because the shock remains a wheel so you can see Ezekiel's vision of the son of man and the wheels and Ezekiel Chapter. One Chapter Two. Which is such a stock of the nostril tradition? All of that since Sabah Party Swamy Cruelly typically take sole for granted. He's not really interested in writing essays about. Oh that connects that to him. It was perfectly obvious. This guy has a working system for connecting the ATM much of the Brodmann he calls it the magma subheads now this is obviously influenced some of credits magical rituals the but he comes up with his own version of it. I thought that was a major thing once once you've identified somebody with the with the Holy Guardian Angel. You're starting to understand the whole crux of Weston. No serious and you realize if it is the same as as the The eastern traditions of enlightenment and so on we have a slightly more vivid Plastic way of viewing these processes. I think you'll find in Hindu tradition but there it is. I mean there is only one noces India easing cruelly. After that he the spirit of India is in. You can feel it but again. He also absorbed the spurs from North Africa. You know he was a part of him and but Indian. He's interesting carries. I'm going to be writing about that. My next book is massive interest in cooking the hottest curry's in London in the nineteen thirties. Come out of it as well. My my when my grandfather came back from India after the forties. He also had everything he was cooked. You had to cover in pepper trying to trying to cover the the taste of India. I think but also the sexuality of the of the Indian Carlini tradition and the attitude to women in Hinduism. I think Not Actually two women socially some certainly me the the veneration off the energetic feminine. Very much Very much accorded with his his viewpoint and he looked I mean he he wrote about the eventual liberation of India. A knew that was coming evening. Nineteen hundred. He writes spotted Which is quite early for somebody in British surprising. Absolutely prophetic poem called common. A common secular or secular him she wrote on the ship going over to New York for the first time in July nineteen hundred and he goes through all of Britain's possessions and also about Germany Austria Hungary Russia. And he says all of this is gonNA be swept away. It's the prophetic pilot. The downfall of the old empire and the coming of a new warrior Lord who already is associated with the sun so he was right. He's writing a on inspired prophecy even without knowing it aged was. Yeah I was GONNA say that that that that's really much before. Tiro and logical culmination consequence. Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah if unless euros or literalist. Crowley treat curly as as evangelical does the King James Volleyball. It's perfectly obvious that Crowley was a fella might before before he wrote down the the book of the law. So when I do those interviews. I always listen after about thirty minutes while we speak. Where would be a nice moment to break? I'll tell you it's really hard to know where to break when I interviewed Tobias Churton because one thing comes out of the other and it's so fluid. It's hard to interrupt but I did. And he we are and well. We are not leaving Tobias entirely. Of course we are going to listen to his music. Now and then return okay. So by stricken is also very active musician. I told you that before and we have heard one example do they already and three hour examples in our last show two years ago when he was with this and now in the next song that we are going to here. He is joined by his daughter. You Still Romero Valley and She is singing a song by Tobias which is called John Lennon's birthday. Well those of you. I think most of you would remember that this year and October on October nine it would be eighty. John's eightieth birthday and Tobias has written a song in memory and honor of John Lennon. And this beautiful song is performed and sung by historic Jamiroquai. Am those of you who have not heard Tobias book on the Sixty S at heard podcast about the book about the sixties. Of course you should go and listen to that episode at the end of season two which will tell you much more about why what we are going to hear now has also been important in Tobias life and become somehow important in historians life as well. Okay John Lennon's birthday enjoy inside that strange things law only Aw who jaw makes news coming to us and like minded so see SEASON ONLY. Song Mrs John Lennon spur. Stay a song created and performed to honor of John Lennon. Who would have his eightieth birthday this year on October? Nine a song composed by Tobias Churton. Who is our guest today? Indian view and performed sung by his daughter. Mary Okay Yes let's go back to the second part of that lovely interview. We start right in again. The question what's Attila. Anyway and as always Tobias has interesting replies to that and after that we are going to talk more about more diverse things of course also about his future plans and some ideas that he has on his mind. I won't keep you much longer just to remind you that immediately after the interior without further break there will be a third musical piece by Tobias. Churton that we will hear. It's as I say an musical piece not a song this time very personal one which is called Tau Can i? It's an instrumental orchestra piece written in memory of a lost friend. Okay and that's very kind also tobias to give us those pieces of music for our show. Today let's go back to England now meet Tobias again and listen to the second part off the interview what does the Selami Denny. Way To you. How would you define that? Well it's it's it's say CICLE DA is is my. It's it's the philosophy of mind your own business isn't it? I mean we have but we have that we have that phrase in English. Do you have the same phrase in in in in Vana? Mind your own business. If somebody asks personal questions look mind your own business show. My my father used to say people with no business of their own author ever minding somebody else's isn't most politics just that a lot of people putting that inquisitive nose into other people's business. Oh that's not fair. That's not just I don't like fat. We must stop it. This whole mental attitude which is a disease of Western democracy rubs individuals of that true will which is the right to live their lives as they will and we think comes to cullman eighteen points at the moment because this split into two sections in every single question that is raised is very something very present in today's politics. Yeah that is because you know what credit would call the curse of because you have to justify everything to somebody no. You don't just do it. You don't have to the other thing about. The Abbey of Salima is one should always read the chapters on fully INRA Bolaise Gargantuan pentecostal and you'll see this imaginary community. The Abbey of Salima. Look the list of people who doesn't welcome. Charles Argumentative. People vicious low minded ignoble types. All of the all people basically born troublemakers are not allowed in the Abbey. But once but once you've got an abbey with people of certain spirit certain noble spirit and a generosity a liberal truly liberal spirit. That's what liberal means generous. You can have this perfect community and then you don't need religion. You don't need priests because you wouldn't want to hurt your fellow and you want them to live as they as they want it. And that's that's the fellow. The Fella my challenge to all impose moral orders is. I don't need you to tell me how to live right right but now that you wrote. I believe it was four books so far about cronies off India. Erica Murphy. Yeah exactly so. I'm not sure that except for the curry's you have already made all all the sights on him that you would deciding on him that you would like to do but and do you for yourself out of this large. You've got yourself has it. Has Your view on croly changed not only become clearer and better and deeper but has it changed something? Has it become different through that work as you have done. Yes I mean it changes all the time. I'm constantly challenged. I'm doing I'm doing I've done. I've got another book coming out next year. Which is about the pillars of economic which we can talk about laser because let's face philosophy which is really or interest but after that will come my Nex- next book which is in the mind which will be my lost. Croly biographical study and it's called ALICEA curly in England which covers the the terrible long period where he was confined to England. Eighteen thirty two to nine hundred forty seven which he'd never been confined in his life. These confined to England. Econ get out. He's been kicked out of Italy. He's been kicked out of France. The Americans weren't give him a visa. You Know Andy Cole gets more story gone back to Russia because the Russian revolution and he's got no money anyway so he's stuck in England and that period has its own interests and I should be looking at that so Does it has. It changed me. Yes I have a much rounder view of the man. I've long ago got over the Demon Crowley problem which you inherit if you if you like me came to curly in the nineteen seventies you CA. Avoid John Simon's book the great based and you can't avoid the enormous amount of negative imaging imagery of crowded still will not multiplied on the Internet. I think without the Internet. I think currently studies would be quite well. I think the scholarship would have been recognized. It lost but but journalists today are not GonNa read my book. They're GONNA go on the Internet plugging clearly read. The first thing that comes up and what comes up to bad things of what we'll come up is rubbish at. Yeah Yeah and so you have to be as true seeker to find the good stuff. There aren't many and that's why truth is never going to be a democratic principle. Yes okay how do we continue from k? Yeah I'd likes go into that a bit more due to I mean. Obviously you have. If you're in a way you're asking. Do you believe in Alicea crazy so I feel sort of under this. Well believe is a strong word but be completely wrong. Do I subscribe to? Yes subscribe to a religion of Christianity icon carrying member of a sect of crayons. And I would I would definitely say no. I would say that because if you understand that list of curly you never would be the opposite if you wouldn't have believed you but But I think he he's. He's think I said before the program starts that if currently written a book like Ludvik Vince Victim. Stein started it with words. The world is everything that is will or something like that. You remember that can stand together. Sure sure world is everything that is the case. All Scottish sober is I think no matter. Anyway if he'd written a book of his philosophy which he could have done. I don't think it would have been a thick book. I think it'd been quite thin if he'd written it as a philosophy. I think he'd probably have done better in terms of his reputation but of course that would have subjected his thoughts straightforward academic analysis and. I'm not sure he's kind of thinking does respond to academic analysis that easily however he came from an era. Where if you're going to say anything about religion all truth. It had to have super final authority and this is the problem. Once you say. The teaching of Crowley's has soprano authority. It comes from above it is from. Sharma is his dog. Given it comes from the Guardian Angel it comes I wa. S You know this idea. Is there a masters whose conception of life is so utterly beyond us that we could never understand the motives which he does offer as a defense of? I wasn't quite a few times. I think it's one of the worst possible defenses. Because you're basically saying these people know a lot more about you. But you're prepared to believe in these mazdas. No more than you do but you're prepared to accept. Well if they know more than you how do you know that they source is good for you ultimately or even trustworthy? Unless you're going put yourself in the absolute position of an audit somebody who simply surrenders to a higher allegedly higher source of authority. Now if you do that it seems to me. You haven't taken one step Ford from the history of religion for the last ten thousand years. Somebody says this is the true soon whether you like it or understand it. It is the truth now. In Science we accept the truth. Not because somebody told it was true we accept the truth because it can be demonstrated time and time again and it may be understood can be mine may take time to understand it right. The opposite can be proven later and then becomes you truth. Even that is possibly in science. Yeah I think Craig clearly has the site problem which I would love to debated with him. And I've I've had access to numerous amounts of his papers unpublished where he does try to do with this issue but unfortunately it usually comes down to him saying. I've tried to rebel against this idea myself. How of course I have. How could you not think that? I've not been intellectually challenged. It goes chapter. Three of the book of the law goes against everything I think ought to be the case but it is the case and I was proved to me that he knows more than I than my ordinary mind ever could and but if you took him further and then he said what if I was is the part of yourself. He was very dangerous to start thinking. You and your higher source of intelligence are the same because this leads the ego inflation which you rightly says is the beginning of all problems in mental health. So he said it's much more convenient and more healthy to think your source of inspirational or guidance is a separate being. It's just and I think he not only thought it was convenient. My belief is that he believed it was because in the end he would say who is on the curly. He's just an event that happened because my mother and father conjoined whatever whatever that created can only ever be a vehicle for something that is much greater for example every child grows up and sees the world already from the time he's born the moment he opens his eyes. He's seeing something far greater than him or herself. Yeah so in that sense. We are kind of a overwhelmed from the moment. We're born by something bigger. So why is it? When we reach our teen years we become self obsessed and neurotic and worried about who we are. Are The people judges and all the rest of it? Why is it at that point? We're prepared to throw the world away and wrecked me. I me mine have to spend the rest of our lives trying to get rid of. Im by listening to the Beatles and George Harrison trying to find God again which we wish we had the very beginning anyway so in that sense what is an individual mind on what is it that is sovereign and obeying. I engage myself with these questions many days and still. I don't have I get inspired. Sometimes but you know I think I've got it said that's it but I'm still challenged. I think I'm not sure that an individual human being ever stands long enough in one place to understand anything very much square a kind of a kind of perpetual tail skying right and chaos is even faster today that it used to be in cruelly. Stay because we are welcomed by so many. We can't even help being overwhelmed by so many things from the outside world. Well we making it considerably worse for ourselves by plugging ourselves in continually to the IPHONE and the Internet. I one thing that's been about this terrible business regained through the moment with where we've been attacked by an invisible enemy while it's invisible to most of us put it under a microscope is perfectly. There's a little bit. I noticed how nice the birds are. And how healthy you blue skies all these things and he. We do have an opportunity at this moment to actually stop in and try and look at where we are in the great scheme of things and whether we're going in the right direction with a close more closely integrate so-called global society in Latte. Absolutely as you mentioned dead I wrote down at. You will write that book about crawling England where you said. He was confined and of course the word confined as rings a bell. Exactly what you were just saying but being confined now talk about croly about ourselves. I maybe it's the same answer. Being confined is of course a feeling that we don't like especially spirits like Rowley or I would say us because in a way we are. We have to same motivation underneath that. That's why we do but being confide even if we can basically do what we want still if you compared to the Middle Ages. We are perfectly free people but we are confined. How does that? He's saying when I say that the enormity of what you're saying is how does that change something in our mind. How how did you change? Croly how did it doesn't change us? How did you try? Being confined had been confined changed. Yeah Yeah and the out. Defeat even the feeling of being confined. Well I suppose currently was a bit like William Blake Insofar as in in his own mind he contain. Multitudes was aware of the infinite worlds within so in that sense it confine craigslist is to make him look inwards. Croly was imaginative enough to always make some fun out of where he wants and he had the pleasure at least by the time he was well. We should say. How old was the nineteen thirties? Fifty fifty five mid thirties sixty by the by the age of fifty. He had seen the world. Luckily Anyway and he had written about that he'd written is an autobiography up to the twenty S. Anyway but I think it's very interesting. He's very last. Publication called Allah or six years in Song was a collection of poems that had been written all over the world. And I'm very touched by this and if you read it and some of the poems are awfully good but what he's actually doing is poetically revisiting in his imagination. All these places. He's been the other thing I noticed was in his diaries. For the nineteen forties. During the war he went to the cinema. A great deal and certain films. You went to six seven times and and they weren't. You know art films. Profound one of the most Bob. Hope comedy he adored but another one was one that was set in New York in Greenwich Village and he went to. It's six times and it's just a light comedy mystery. Who done it detective so I bought it from nine hundred forty ninety forty three. We've Ginette McDonald played the part. She's very very good in it and anyway the point is I could see what he does. The film gives you a picture of Greenwich Village Equally. Used to live there in one thousand nine hundred and his happiest. Somebody's happiest is waking up in Washington Square. Looking at the trees we live and he was painting and he had he had for a short time he had a wonderful life and he brings back so of course. I think he had very natural feelings. Being imprisoned in a dark not just dock country to stitch. I mean Britain was depressed but Germany was more depressed. America was as depressed The whole world was under a depression. At that point my guess is he would most dreamed about canoeing up the rivers of Burma things like that. I think that's the food was also about the interesting gourmet cooking and the Indian food was another way of revisiting. So he was. He was compensating compensating for the loss of a world. But he made him more intensely dream of the future world and he so he's so desperate to find people young people particularly who are going to carry B.'s ass and take it on and he gets great hope when he meets Grady mcmurtry. Louis Grady. Mcmurtry was an American company commander at the time of the battle of the bulge. Okay it's just nineteen forty Foale and risking his life and coming back from Germany during the war itself visit crazy London and and and and having long long hours and hours of talks credit said sue him at one point when you see the young people dress in oriental costume. You'll know your time has come to lead. Well didn't it happened. Said something incredible in his lesser to greater from nineteen forty-three since nineteen sixty five will be a very important year. In the end of the child. The growing child he saw air as a child growing so there was always a very optimistic side of carry. That saw the light at the end of the tunnel. He knew the Nazi's fail. He'd realized in one thousand nine hundred thirty nine he did an aging and he said will the Nazi Germany succeed and he gets the hexagrams. The weak beam. They won't they won't make it. And then when he lived through the V V two rockets coming in doesn't match which was unheard of destruction. But he saw the actually the of course. The light didn't come in nineteen forty five because Britain had a Labor government with which red led by Clement Atlee who seemed to think that we should remain at war but with ourselves. Yeah Okay you had mentioned just now. I have to ask you that question as well. Sometimes I get the impression but I see that completely from outside so maybe I'm wrong. But sometimes he had the impression that not only the chew but other orders who had a great personality data origin. Say also anthroposophy like Steiner. Does the same to me. And they create create like a church around that person. And that's exactly what that person would not have wanted. I pretend to say so would you? Would you say I'm right with or you're absolutely right? I mean it's the gravest problem I mean even grady. Mcmurtry was a bit of a hope crafty but he was never going to be crowded so they as you call. It would always end up talking about early. In the morning show by clearly he becomes more day five. He becomes more slightly more remote. He starts to rise above and before long. You've got Jesus Christ you know in scientists affair or some church where he's so far above. You only worship this. The NIMRODS too strong and doesn't change a comma to anything and that was all did a lot stuff about not well. He didn't write a thing because he was sick of people. Arguing about Texans so that should be one text but yes. You're absolutely right. Croly was craziest religion and it is rarely religion. It's his best efforts at a religion. The reason we're talking about is because he made a very good job of his idea of a religion and it chimes in with with a lot of our thinking but if religion isn't a religion if it doesn't have heretics on the other hand somebody has to look after the the book somebody has to be described and keep the records. It does matter because any religious impulse is likely to almost certain to be perverted. I mean if you look at the history of Islam and very quickly. The argument lineage starts sure And same with the Christian Church did you know and the old jokes about the You know joke about the Jewish man whose switched on an island on his own light Robinson crusoe and eventually the ship comes and says hey been on your own all these years yes. I haven't been wasting my time in. And they said well. Let me show you the island. And he he shows one end of the says. There's a synagogue. And they go to the other end of the island and there's another synagogue and the captain who welcomes them aboard. The ships is just one question. Why did you build two synagogues on the island? And that is the synagogue. I go to a that is the synagogue. I don't go to okay. Exactly you're not create cyz heresy. Yeah Y do you create a religion because he calls it like a religion? You talk about true will well. I think this is the basic problem of religion. Isn't it is. How do you keep going the initial? Because when I was a boy I had my own faulk. I had my own burning Bush experience. And if find a been a total egotist. I could've manufactured sincerely. I complete religious philosophy based on some Iraqi utterances and who knows I might might have been lucky enough to get a following or unlucky enough. I would buy as it was. I said well. We've got an existing religion. My country called the church mainland. Say if I can work along with that and put some inspiration back into this rather dry institution. I'll be honest with it. Didn't work and the judge didn't like what I had to bring it out to me and so do the question then was do we start a new nonstick church asking myself. That question and I knew a few people would have been interested in the idea but then I look nostitz on that quite a lot. Actually and you've got Steiner and Anti Stein or somewhere in an old list eventually you just sorta say do I will do it to you. I think so. I think Crowley's ideas that they will be a great Salim. Ick Church and this would revolutionize the philosophy of the world if you see that in terms of institution then I was either wrong own misguided but he had another way of looking at it as well which is much more interesting. Which is the the the insights of the Lima being? Absolutely true. Fundamentally I you do want you are would eventually simply become the normal conception anyway and you don't need an institution such to in a guarantee right. I mean. He sold Salima as being what was going on in his lifetime. Twentieth Century said look how the position the sexes of change. Look how women have started to claim more individuals than the children would start to claim more more authority and attention and interest and we will start to look at sex not as something to be ashamed of. But there's something to explore and we will look at religions as subjects to study not things to be afraid of and you know event and young who said that the totalitarian system would never lost because human beings deeply don't really want it they can be frightened into it misled into it but they don't really want it so in the end as far as he's there is a natural in the curly viewpoint in other words he believed that the Selima principal would be established. Because there's no. There is no ultimate evolutionary alternative and what direction it will go and remains to be seen. he was a strange man in that sense he did. There were two cronies. There was the thinking. Diet croly but there was always this other croly. If you call on it. The had been given a position. Mice ooh panel of that. He was convinced he was convinced that he'd been touched by a power beyond this world and that he had a specific role to play and he believed in that that was his e carried that cross and and I would say he suffered very much for. We don't have to carry that cross. We cut our own. We got our own crosses I say ultimately is a lot of good ideas not necessarily should never be Italian. They should never have the ultimate truth. They're very useful for knocking other ideas. Which are oppressing us. And when I see collectivisation going on either politically or in in the way we're thinking and the lack of individuality I think then we need croly battering rams say look we. We don't need your education. Though it sat right we got our own. And we I get something out the book of the Laura. I also get something out the gospel of Luke. I get something at the Baghdad. Gita I get something out of the The Shastri's of Sutras or you know there's something in the Koran for everyone and all the rest I often thought of. I often thought if I was God. I'd say hey I want to tell you something you people down the these gods Jews these gods communists. These are God's atheists these are God's Christians these Gods Muslims who you what the final word Tobias Fascinating. Well thank you thank you. That was again a great our and your company before we leave each other. Well you mentioned part of your future projects already but it always asks. Maybe you have something else to to tell us about. Dwelt cookie book by girly. I don't know what it's going to be called in England we can expect from you and We'll take into hermetic book that you're the lost. The lost pillars of Inuk a spill the V neck. Exactly the book. Vi Knock and its influence through time in part but it's also a my theory of the origin of philosophy and the are the origin of the figure Triesman Justice and white laws that in the Middle Ages Hermes. An inaugural are completely identified. It's very important. And this is a whole section on the origin of Masonry. In Anaheim Speculative Tauch. It's me getting down to the earth. Great well at the latest at the very latest will need to win. That book comes out but I I have a suspicion. It could be before winded. Let's hope I'm not under an oxygen? How come on come on. No the Oxygen Dead Huguette is from your work deaths. That's good. They mentioned exactly. Yeah well thank you and good to see you have you. Have you felt you in better spirits and then when we lost exchange my email when all hell was drinking loose around you in your in your in your surroundings literally. So it's it's great to have you back and thanks for spending time with us today here on the term spot constant whereas I shouldn't have been the last one she. It won't be the last thing you have to suffer me again. I'm happy about that. Thanks and by five Huh Wrong How can I or Kissel piece written and performed by Tobias Jordan in memory of friend? Thank you so much tobias for this lovely talk which really was inspiring again. We had planned that into you a little bit earlier already but unfortunately you those those really terrible weather situations in this part of England Tobias lives. We had to postpone talk twice. But I'm glad stir things have returned at least on that level a little bit to normal for him and that we were now finally able to speak into into you. Okay came friends and listeners. That story end of today's show right. But you know that I don't let you go before I have told you what you are going to hear in the next episode. Okay there we go in episode nineteen. I I'm going to talk to our special guest. I believe to American Science Fiction Author Comic Book Writer and Expert on Tori. Tomorrow Rachel polack. She's a highly regarded writer and terro specialist very deep inspired by Kabul approach and by classical approach. Tomorrow I don't tell you more about her book. Seventy eight degrees of wisdom that has been described by Tarot readers and teachers around the world as Bible of Tarot reader. So all of you who are thorough fans. You really should listen to this interview. And those of you who are not yet so much into well you also should listen because you'll probably become fan great Well yeah the task being it today and next week next show will be coming to you on Sunday may tenth. Today we are talking with by a certain about Crowley's India and that means I can only tell you now take care. Stay tuned A

India Tobias Churton Tobias Crowley England Tobias Churton Con ESTA Croly Croly Bennett Salon Rangoon SEASON Lsd Crawley America John Lennon Israel Croly Austria Youtube Madame levesque Hermes Dot Com Vienna
Tobias Wolff: This Boys Life

Bookworm

00:00 sec | 9 months ago

Tobias Wolff: This Boys Life

"Funds for bookworm are provided in part by Lannan Foundation two thousand from KCRW and KCRW DOT com. I'm Michael Silver Bland and this bookworm. This show began over thirty years ago and one of the first books that was on. This show was a book. A memoir called this boy's life. It's by my guest Tobias Wolff now the original publisher Grove has published a thirtieth anniversary edition of this boy's life. I'll tell you if you do a book show and I know you don't you. Don't get to re read the books that you read thirty years ago and so I re- read this boy's life. It's better than I remembered it even originally and I loved it originally. Tell me. Did you ever expect that your hands would be dirty? Buy this book again. Oh you never know what to expect with With a book what sort of life. It will have When you finish a book you're pretty much thinking then about the next book Elliott has a wonderful line in the four quartets. He says For us there is only the trying the rest is not our business and it it that something that Iraq had better take to heart. Will this always life? It's one of the first memoirs in this huge movement which restored memoir to respect ability. But also although you insist on its factuality it stands at the beginning of what becomes the train of auto fiction people who are writing about their lives as honestly as possible. The question is what about? The structure of the book. Turns it into readable fiction then as I was reading this boy's life what I saw again and again in each chapter was that you'd structured the events around crises and capitulation 's that allowed the book to make its way from beginning to end without seeming like a memoir seeming instead as if life itself the thing we hope is an adventure But this boy's life sees him through his mother's divorce his first and terrifying stepfather his escape from home to a prep school. He is thoroughly unprepared for and in the process allows US SOC- what goes the making of a writer's life pretty good for someone who really was at the start of a career. It was one of those books that I almost didn't choose to right at that. Sounds mystical and and and writers should avoid mystical language about their about their projects in their process but It it always seemed to me a a genre to be avoided the memoir and even though I loved some memoirs Mary McCarthy's memories of the Catholic girlhood is a great favourite of mine. Loves NABOKOV SPEAK MEMORY AND My own brothers Duke of deception. Which in fact was yet another reason. I thought that this was something that I wasn't going to do. I thought go get my family's been covered in this way so it really hadn't because my brother grew up with my father continente way from my experience growing up with my mother and we rarely saw each other but No I was Sort of in some strange way dragged kicking and screaming into the writing of this book but once I got started and and I don't mean by anybody else I mean by inner promptings But once I got started I threw everything else. Aside I found myself caught up in these memories and I suppose like many writers I tend to remember the past in terms of stories. I've told stories about my past. And there's no doubt that without my meaning to the shaping of a memory and two story involves SOM editing that that I'm even unaware of And but these-these. This is what happened this noise life was your entrance into my permanent memory. Not only that it have unforgettable beautiful cover still does. They've kept this cover But somehow or other the care with the writing is something different from the care with a story and sentence by sentence. There's so much betrayal of the care being taken this no show of stuff. It's very carefully done but not artfully done. You're concerned with the pains of this boy's life. Because Boys Life. The magazine that was for scouts was telling about every boy's life and now we were going to hear about this boy's life now too biased. Wolf can you remember at all about talking about this book on Bookworm years ago? Oh I remember talking with you about it I don't remember exactly what we talked about though. Yeah I would I loved was just as I recognized. Jewison Reiner you recognize me as a reader and subsequently you would sign your books to my best reader and I was saw flattered and honored by that and I think I want to talk to you about the relation between writers and readers because over these years between the people who've read the book and the People who've seen the movie that is very loosely based on the book There are people in the world who think they know you? How do you feel about that? I especially feel uncomfortable about it when When they think they know me because of the movie. Okay like I've had people come up to me and say Y I I read your book. And how did you know so much about your mother? Sex Life and I try to be polite but there's nothing in in the book that would lead them to ask that question. That would have been in the movie. Which as you say is very loosely adapted readers people who are readers They understand understate. You know look they understand that. We shared difficult experiences that And that's why they would read a book like this and finish it and so the kinds of conversations I have with people read it. Have been actually very gratifying to me. Often they'll say I had a you know. I had a young boy in my class. Who really seemed to be going off the rails and I gave him your book and it seemed to mean a lot to him. He felt like he had some company in the world. And that didn't have to go badly. And you know if somebody says something like that to me. It just lifts my heart and gives me fuel for the work ahead so I on the whole. I'm I'm very grateful for the way in which people respond to this book. I'M TALKING TO BIAS. Wolf on the thirtieth anniversary of his memoir. This boy's life a book that I had the pleasure to go back and reread. And you know. It's such a detailed book that on my first reading. I didn't realize how haunting it is in Hemingway's Nick Adams stories. We remember phrases. That are unforgettable. You specifically rejected. It seems to me that kind of writing for writing. That's much more detailed and to the point of the places you lived so there's a town up north called concrete. Yes that's where I went to high school. I didn't actually live concrete. Was the metropolis if you will. Where I went to high school. I lived in a little village. About thirty five miles up the Skagit River from concrete And we took the school bus down every morning and back home at night through this wind e dangerous road And and that was but that was the name of the the town where I went to Crete. High-school hundred high school scribes the dust. The cement plant left a pall of dust on everything. Sometimes it would be so thick in the air that they would have to cancel football practice and because they didn't have any concept of people wearing masks or anything but all the cars were all eaten by the lime in the cement dust and I mean it was. It was a company town The Lone Star Cement Company pretty much owned it And now the since the cement plant is closed. I've been back I went back. In fact during the filming of this and and now they errors pristine and they're these beautiful cascade mountains in the background and it's kind of a destination now for fishermen and stuff like that but it was rather squalid company town when I went to high school with a stepfather. Who wants you to sit still and be quiet during Lawrence welk's champagne music shots on and who knew he wanted you to eat and to finish it all you know. This book is full of the details. Of what happens to you when your childhood turns desperate and I love the book for that because at certain points every childhood turns desperate. You know what I mean when you deal those pages and write false recommendations to get you into that prep school. That's a desperate moment and you have to nevertheless go and speak to an alumnus and present yourself as the person who did so well in school as to merit these letters of recommendation and then write about eight years later when it can only arouse feelings of pain this constant you know you suffered this book or am I wrong. I suffered some of that and thinking back to Especially my mother's misery in that marriage and he was dangerous and he held the knife to her throat on a number of occasions. We had a lot of rifles in the house and oddly enough I think today When it seems almost as if it's an alternative one could have to shoot your whole family. Well that wasn't in the news then that didn't happen or did you didn't hear about it the way we hear about everything now and I if we were living that life now. I don't think we probably would have survived him or him would have survived himself he android us being afraid of him And he found ways of of of of making that happen so yeah I that part of writing. It was difficult But also with the gift of years that I had when I was writing it With the kind of rage I felt because I was a father myself at that point and it was just unimaginable to me that you could treat children that way at the same time. He seemed I saw this rather pathetic and in some ways almost comically absurd person. And so there's a kind of strange binocular vision you get when you're writing at this distance. How does the publication impact the people? It's about well. It was the strangest thing my step sister called me up Pearl. The younger one called me up and said that She said she'd read the book and and she said I hope you. I hope you're happy. You certainly made him miserable his last days and I said well. How did that happen? And she said well he He had gotten serious diabetes and had both legs cut off okay and he was lying in bed dying and as he was dying she had her daughter read him. This boy non-annex yes. I thought Pearl. You're blaming me. Sit you know. I didn't make his last days miserable. I that wasn't my intention in writing the book. Maybe I didn't go on. I didn't WanNa talk to her about this but Poor choice of final book. You know you spoken about your mother's bravery and yet it is that stepfather whether book or movie who comes forth as the I won't say it's he's certainly not a Admirable character but he's the memorable character of the two and I think you meant to give your mother much more credit in this book then comes through in its final version. Is that the case. I I don't know because I I'm I'm the fish swimming in the water and that doesn't always in water. You're right I can't see the book from the inside that way. I had hoped that the reader would see that in her. It is always the challenge in writing. Even fiction that when you write about the the malignant the dangerous character they draw the attention and Simone. Vais has a wonderful essay in one of her books. I think it was in gravity and grace when she's talking about literature and she says you know all the characters we remember and return to are the false staffs the The the Er goes you mentioned Iago in fact and and so on and she said that and the challenge for a writer is to make goodness interesting. And that is something that Boy when I read out that really Branded itself on in my mind. And she's right. It is hard to do. I'm Michael Silver Blunt. You're listening to bookworm from the studios of KCRW. I'm talking with Tobias Wolff about his book. This boy's life it's in its thirtieth anniversary edition will continue after this short break. I'm Michael Silver This is bookworm and I'm talking with Tobias Wolff about his book this boy's life it's the thirtieth anniversary you know. The book was covered on the show when bookworm began in fact. I think the Tobias Wolff was the first rider I was unfamiliar with who I read and gone. Lost an admiration for and we've spoken about ancient every book. Since you can look it up on the bookworm archive you're now teaching at Stanford. I am just retired after okay. I taught there off by taught there for a a fellow in the writing program. There in the mid seventies taught there for a couple of years after that came back in ninety seven and taught until This is the first full year that I haven't taught. Has that freed uterit- yes it it. I mean I love teaching. I wonder kept doing it for so long. I didn't have to and yet I was drawn to it. I I love light. I'm like you. I love talking about books. I mean it's it's lifeblood for me. It isn't enough just to read a book. You have to talk about a book and and you have to reread it. Yes your number of years and when I would teach courses in the novel or the Short Story I know. Some colleagues of mine were very confident in their recall and whatnot put. I always reread everything. I was going to teach in every time at elevated my love for it. If there was an effect from the teaching that probably was not something I'd ever anticipated but turned out to be Somewhat disabling almost is a hyper self-consciousness of language and form You lose a certain to fall from innocence in a way you really you talk about this stuff you think about it. You're looking at sentences all the time and you become so demanding of your own. So conscious of your own that can have almost paralyzing effect. Well I've noticed. This is my opinion of course but next to Raymond. Carver you seem to be the most meticulous and careful writer of your generation and the amount of time that we have to wait between books. I think bears testament to that ongoing care. I don't think you let anything go easily It's true it's probably a little pathological. Actually I just hope that what comes out of the time is I mean you never say. Something's worth that. Who knows but at least that I feel good about it when I release it to the world that this is something I feel proud of. I felt when I read the last on full balk. Our story begins which was a collection of new and selected stories. That the amount of pride you could take about the endurance of these stories. These are stories that were built to last. I mean that's a very impressive thing. And it doesn't matter how many pages they occupy. What matters is the endurance? And when I read some of these stories the carefulness with which matters of ethics particularly guilt and innocence are reconsidered is very impressive in a time without ethics and now you I hear are working on something new. Yes yes it's Newest probably at this point Not Not the word I would use. I have been working on this book. to novel for some years now and Some might think too many years but how Well one who ten years ten years since our story begins came out with many false starts and new start. the But it is now in its final stages and I hope to let my publishers have it in the spring and it's It's a novel told by a High School English teacher in a Catholic high school as I want was But set in more contemporary times and he has rather dire reason to contemplate his mortality at this moment than his history. When old school came out. I believe we did a public event together at the Los Angeles Times Book Festival and someone raised his hand and said. I'm very sorry that there are no longer all boys schools. And you said don't be ridiculous and he said you mean you're not you don't miss that and not at all you said. I don't care for that world at all that masculine world in which we don't know how to talk to a girl how to talk to a woman. This man was extremely disgruntled. But I worked at a look on your face. You were so proud of yourself for being able to be insistent that there was something wrong in the way of thinking through education that that prep school all boys school thing implied and one of the things that I very much like about Tobias Wolff my guess writing is that he will not revealing where he stands. He knows where he stands. The books are written by someone. Who's done the story so many times that you know by now that you're telling it right whether it's good whether expand that's another question you know that you're telling it the right way because you've given it every chance to attack you actually now the your venture that. I remember that day it was it was fascinating to me. Because everyone puts on such sham shows of politeness. You Know Search. Ingratiating you know Oh yes. Every question is worth answering. And there's no such thing as a stupid question and we all know that that's not true or rarely true and you were so good that day as you are today. Thank you so much for coming back to see me again. On the thirtieth anniversary of this boy's life. What a pleasure Michael. Thank you. I've Catholic of anybody. I would rather talk about books. You were one of the very few that I truly enjoy. And most of the others gone You know we're irving at the end of an age and so you know among the people who were with you in those early years. Norman mailer and Susan Santa Gorda Daw not to mention many more extraordinary riders of time. Right carver Andre debut and abuse. Yeah no we we lived. I was reading your colleagues. They were your colleagues and you were so lucky to be among them. I was and something of you. Go goes with them. hull go to back to Elliot again. Remember dark dark they all go into the DR C. They go and we go with them. Thank you very much. That's beautiful. I'll never forget it. We go with them for sure. I'm Michael Silver Blunt. This is bookworm. I've been talking to to bias. Wolf on the thirtieth anniversary of this boy's life it's been republished by Grove press you can visit. Kcrw DOT COM slash bookworm for a podcast of today's show. It's also available at Apple spotify. An all PODCASTS SERVICES. You can even listen on demand with KCRW SMARTPHONE APPS special. Thanks to CO producer Sean Sullivan. Associate producer. Alan Howard Engineer Mario Diaz. I'm Michael Silver. Join me again. Next time on bookworm visa seasonable wheel funds for bookworm are provided in part by Lannan Foundation. This program is produced in the studios. Have KCRW Santa. Monica? You can access archives of all bookworm programs and podcasts the most recent ones at KCRW DOT com slash forum the bookworm themes were composed and performed by Ron and Russell male of sparks. Well I'm Michael Silver Black. Join me again next time on bookworm. Went Suzanne Jill Levine Jessica Powell and Katie. Latif John Our guests I am.

Tobias Wolff writer Michael Silver Wolf Lannan Foundation Grove Michael Silver Bland Bookworm KCRW KCRW Iraq Elliott Skagit River Pearl diabetes producer Lawrence welk NABOKOV High School publisher
Elton Brand Will Trade Anyone At Any Time Featuring Dana B

Mickstape: The Barstool Basketball Podcast

2:53:58 hr | 1 year ago

Elton Brand Will Trade Anyone At Any Time Featuring Dana B

"Sipc. Guys. Sorry, the shows a day late, but some things happen. So actually, it's perfectly on time. It's almost like we knew we didn't. But it's almost like we did. That's what makes us us in in the others, the others, I suppose, but by now most of us have started racking our brains about what Valentine's gift is truly going to make his or her special day with one eight hundred flowers dot com. It's really not that complicated. Rose excuse me roses from one eight hundred flowers are a no brainer right now when you order early, and it's about a week away from Valentine's Day, so not that early. It's about on time. But one eight hundred flowers has amazing deals on vibrant, and romantic Valentine's, rose, bouquets arrangements and more starting at just twenty nine ninety nine. That's right. Eighteen romantic red roses for twenty nine ninety nine. There are so many unbelievable deals from one eight hundred flowers. 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Also, February isn't just about one super sized football game on Spotify. There's thousands of free sports podcast that agonize over the pre-seasons off seasons and plain old regular seasons of nearly every sport imaginable, basketball, baseball, hockey, soccer, curling, even hurling. Yes. That is a sport tonight or sport too, brutal sport. It's like if lacrosse were played by not preppy rich white kids, but instead like hulking Khanna mcgregor's, so it's cool cools. Hell now. It's so easy to stay updated with the latest trade. Rumors predictions and scorching hot takes from from from some of your favorite games. Biggest names so take it one episode at a time and give one hundred and ten percent of your attention to the thousands of free sports podcast on Spotify. Because the best offense is good podcast. I that's a that's a an ad for Spotify. But it also seems like an ad for our competitors. So go to Spotify. Listen is there, but my take spitting chocolates the zero blog thirty. 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Like, I don't know if people think this might be the last one there or what? But it was a ridiculous showing fair like the six time in seventeen years like the tweet everybody one day. I'll you your your boys went outside pulling for the last time. You didn't even know. Yeah. That's fucked me up everytime. Correct. So the another somebody's gets like sixty two like he saw all the like thirty more years of terrible than you. And and he's still like, I don't know man Brady, go south at any minute. I'm gonna soak this one in. Right. Yeah. No. Definitely respect everyone coming out too. To just bask in the collective glory. It wasn't like even with the Red Sox parade. It wasn't as like the players were acting. Crazy rock was getting there towards the end of it. But everyone else was pretty reserved for the most part. If a sport for the classy of half. To the for years decades. It is something everyone knows. So it doesn't shouldn't have surprised me as much as it did. But pretty much since. Like ten AM on Super Bowl Sunday. I've gotten about seven combined hours of sleep. Sounds about right. And two of those hours are like train hours like just on the train my body. Just being like, all right. That's enough. So maybe real sleep. So last night. I finally went to sleep after like everything ended their basketball on. But I just like Celtics play playing the Cavs. I'm not really too worried about it. And that I wake up and a thing happened at two thirty in the morning. The news came out, which is outrageous Elton brand is not deal on normal people time he doesn't care about the rest of us. Really why I like woke up? Like, I saw it was like twenty three minutes later because I woke up and couldn't sleep check the posit. Wait, wait what? Did I miss from last night? I was like, oh, no this literally just happened. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So what do you think? I love it for the clippers. I like it for the Sixers love it for the clippers. Okay. Talk on it. I just like for the clippers. They opened up. I don't know if it's max cap space by they can get close to. Now, and it didn't sound like Tobias hairs is going to stay or been telling they wanted him to stay at the number that he wanted. So right. They got I'm trying to how many picks they got three picks in while. There's lechner. What was the second rounder? They got Philly going twenty in that Miami twenty twenty one pick. I like the twenty twenty one pick might be good like sham it as a piece. And I mean, Chandler, Mus collar whatever, but. Sounds like they're just gonna not make the playoffs because they gives their picky all this year. Right. He if they missed the playoffs. They keep it. Thought if they made it that they know they miss it. They keep it. Yeah. What are they in a standings that aid soon? Catchy. Yes. If we can if we can't then we won't how about that. Yeah. I mean, it's a pick that like this draft stick saw sudden like when the Celtics on it was like man, this is useless. Now, everything I woke up to say it was like look at Jerry West plan plan multidimensional chess. Now, he's got this massive asset to get Anthony Davis. Like, all right. Let's pick was dog shit twelve minutes ago. What are we talking about which the thirteenth pick? The you know. Oh, you know that was gonna stink stay like by the Miami pick. I've heard from Sixers fans routinely is this this guy godfather offer type pick alone, which by just seems to be stuck in that perpetual, eight seed mode. So I don't know if that's a locked to be like a a very high pick. But even then it's like, this is when this year two of those contracts, right? Your four they might not even be like in their the AC nab, they're below five hundred of. If you trade in another three months to buy his hairs for their pick. That's home and Shimin inch. He's he's something. Like, they definitely that's just another piece achieve peace. They freed up some I wanna see the clippers cap space now because I feel like they're going to have cap space. And if I have to choose between two historically inept franchises in the two biggest markets, I would pick the clippers over the Knicks. Definitely. Definitely I'm not trying to say it's not a good trait a four the clippers just if that paper so valuable than either Elton brands gone off the handle and wasted it on three months. Tobias harris. Or it's just. Like, I don't know. It's just not it's just so far away that it's hard to have a ton of value on it right now. See that's what I like really like it for the clippers. I do like because. Against going back to like the Knicks. The two teams that like cap space cap space. It's like, okay will the clippers have a new owner that is willing has shown he's willing to spend money. The Knicks do not we clippers have like Jerry West on who's like the actual GM. But like they have what appears to be a competent front office. So it's like, okay. Like, we can hold. It is like Danny Ainge. He's I okay, I'll pick for your Dan line because I'll be here. Like, we'll just hold this. And now like they're kept situation is beautiful. Yeah. Could lowered the only after this year they have one year of gallon. I. A team option for Avery, Bradley. Good luck, bud. Mantra Herro for six million dollars, which you could easily move if you needed to an Lou Williams for eight million which you could easily. Shea go just who you could easily move if you wanted to and yet Drome Robinson's the worst contract on their books after this summer. What does he make like three million three point five games? Yeah. So it's like I did like. Like, the Philly pick, it might not be anything. But if they're like, okay gallon, Ariz fine. But we we need to get off his money right now there will tach that yet. Here you go take it like, we we we're not gonna miss this. We'll get off the that one year, and they will basically have. Seventeen million dollars committed that feels like to Mex base to mex- yet. 'cause I feel like even before this already had one max face 'cause they were talking about collide signing their outright. So yeah. Definitely definitely feels like they can add at least two guys the minimum. Yeah. Like, I guess the thing now is they they can't trade for AD, which I would be fine with because. Would you cut out? I would say anything. Yeah. No. I guess it would be. They definitely don't have the money to make it work unless Scallon IRA going back, right? Yeah. That's basically have to those like. Yeah. Everything they got really gallon are for money. Probably Lou will Herro shy shea the Miami bagman. The Miami pig and probably a clipper pick, right which. Yeah. I'm I'm not thrilled on the pelicans. It's not it's not. I mean, it's I'd say it's comparible to Lakers offer the thing I'll say this is like we said it and we've seen it these guys keep going for less than you think. So right. Like it might be enough. Like, they might be like don't you went to Rome Robinson? You've seen shea. You know, he's good Jim syndrome. Robson? He might be great. Right. Yes. The box shea is as good as like, I think both of us Shaha loans, probably as good as any of the individual pieces. The Lakers trying to put in the sale boy. Over cow, coups, you kidding. And that he picked again, seventy Sixers fans have been telling me for years that pick was was better than any nets pick I've ever seen. So that pick was so great. They get flipped twice in twelve months. Lakers picked at Brandon Knight pickers, like how could you know, like everybody have Brandon Knight miles flip rather have Tony Snell? Yeah. There are no golden picks like this Sacramento pick. Now Bahir better way. It's going to be the number eleven pick grapes. Yeah. Or it's gonna turn into two twos. Like because inveigh. Yeah. Can't way with all the picks. The or scheduled ahead. This is there any chance I'll get the number one pick by any of the lottery. Repick they go to the other team y'all have a chance. No the highest. We get to got you. Oh, because if it's one and goes the Philly. Yeah. Got you. That's what I was shot outside goods if which would snaky be infuriating boy that they said science six, man. Well, I think that would make them that clear front runner four AD. Yeah. They're like, hey, we liked by Cyrus and Jimmy Butler. But we're just actually not gonna resign either of them, and we're just gonna trade for Anthony Davis. So see guys late like I'm really trying to think what they could. I think they should bring back sign in trays. I think signing like if you sign you can't be traded for like sixty days or whatever. Right. That feels bad to me like those used to happen. Like, okay. Yeah. I'm content signing his place because they're going to give me money. Like, if the pelicans were like, no, we want like we want to buy his Harris to we'll give him a max like, and we signed him in trade him with the pick with whatever else for Anthony Davis with can't do it for sixty days that complicates things in. For literally everyone in. Yeah. And what's the I don't know? I don't guess I think it was supposed to prevent like the LeBron sign and trades. Right. We're like the K. I've got a couple of draft picks. It was like now Durant goes there for nothing for nothing. So we we prevented nothing. Well, now, the big thing is those opt in years being the like how Chris Paul got to Houston. Like that's become the new sign in trade where it's like. Yeah. I really I really don't want to opt into this get deal. I would rather get longer term. But I'd also rather just play for that team. So I'm going to opt in and then we'll figure it out next summer. Which is basically would Davis. Like, it's it's a year set in stone. Like, it's not an option. But you know, he's out after that he's going to say where he wants to go. So it's right. It might as well be that. So. Yeah. From Phillies standpoint, they just acquired a like traded more that Miami picker Tobias Harris Tobias hours the most traded player of all time. He he keeps. Getting better the pig might just keep getting worse. He just keeps getting better though. Brandin cooks like, I don't know. Why been traded so times like, I don't know. He's kind of good wherever he goes. He is absolutely good wherever he goes. But at least Orlando. Like, he started in Milwaukee. Right. Yeah. Where he was not it was twelve. So then he went to Orlando where he was one of the like Goto guys like probably top three guys that Detroit or is like top one guy. And then he goes to the clippers where he was again, the top one guy. And now he's kinda going backwards where he's going to be the fourth option in Philly most likely. I think they might like for a championship team. That's good now for two by his hairs himself, probably bed. Vice hand it's like he has to learn how to be the fourth option on the fly. Will he I think he's he's done it before. Because again, I he had to work his way up through those rings. He has but he's also like in the middle of the season where he was the the one option. So is he gonna be like thrilled to be the four immediately probably gonna be on a good team? But I'm sure there's gonna be times where it's like, hey, man. I would have loved to have gotten a shop. There will it is for sure. But this is also he's going to be a free agent to summer. He can't pout too much. He could not like it at all. But he knows a guy gotta be the four for three months, then I can be the number one wherever I want if that's death once or he might get there and be like all these teams. Had he might have been on that Detroit team or on those books teams. But on these ever had like a. He's never past the first round. At least know, so it's like, maybe he gets there. Philly wins a couple rounds as I okay, I want this. I think if you to me like Jimmy Butler insurance, it feels to me like, hey, we would probably like we wanna re-sign guy to be third option. We don't want it to be Jimmy Butler. It was also like a new the they had to do something. Now, just because before they pay Simmons. Yep. So I like it'll be interesting to see if they're willing to spend like if they'll just keep all four. Like if they just like it'll be pricey. Sure. Well, like, you don't keep them all for all four or five years. But I do like if they make the final something this year next. If there's like, okay, we'll give it one or two cracks and didn't work one of you gotta go for for cat purposes. Yeah. I don't. I think I think to buy is malleable enough where he can work as the fourth option. But even as the first option this year, we even don't even think he's gonna be because it's like like Simmons I feel like Simmons slides down. But he's gonna be like, okay. Yes. I would just pass the one one person to pass the Baltin like Simmons feels like the. Fourth gas Tobias his your third with Simmons distributing that feels pretty good. It does. But at Tobias Harris as the first option this year has essentially been like just as clippers numbers has essentially been Marcus Morris as the Celtics fourth option. Now, he's been better than that. That's reference disagrees. Well, you're not doing podcast basketball reference. Like para hundred presents. He's got twenty eight twenty nine points to twenty six points. Offensive ratings the exact same deal of rate. If you flip them, though, do you think Marcus Morris will be doing Tobias Harris numbers because I don't I've in a contract year out. You can't count out Marcus Morris, Marcus Morris, the contract air, not easily not as going twenty one on fifty forty three eight shooting for a playoff team. No way. He may not it's his right right now, he's been. Option for what the four seed come where the three seed friend. Nice dry, congress the. Yeah. I mean is he's played situ- five hundred fifty less Mets. On the season. He's only started thirty two games. Tobias was fifty five. But when he's been starting. He's been putting up elite numbers and Tobias Harris. I feel like is going to basically be docile Marcus Morris in Phillies situation because he's going again from being that number one option to not number one option even at best like even on nights when Jimmy stinks it up. He's going to be there too. But I just I don't I don't know why the bad thing though. I'm not saying, it's a bad thing. I'm just saying it's at something he has to learn on the fly like middle of the season. Like, there's no he's done it all he betrayed two hundred times. Like, he's. But it keeps being traded to. It's like all right. Well, you're our guide now figured out like last night. He had like thirty four which I'm shocked even played. If this trade was being worked on like why didn't and baseball. You see guys get pulled them like the the fourth inning all the time. Like, where's he going? Yeah. It was Elton brand. I love Elton brand. The GM doesn't go Thuc. He's like, listen, man. I might not be here. Tomorrow any future assets outta here. I respect it. Like Hanky was only playing the long game. It'll brand only playing the short game. Playing. Neither correct Colangelo is playing I'm going to insult off the players who are here and do nothing about it. Because like who's who's Gordon markets like Tobias hair's getting the number one guy. I don't know what the hell ever demise. Here's has beer heads on his. Whose garden like the top guide their garden, like kyri or Tatum or Gordon Hayward even. They shouldn't be. It's like Chris HOGAN, like if your garden, Gordon Hayward just wasting time. Yes. From going for like against Kawhi now, he gets like OJ. Still others say how many times I thought you were talking about earlier this season. I was like how many times has he played collided. Oh, no. But I'm saying he's it's like othing forward gets your problem. Najma butler. I'm going to I'll take my chances like, Danny green. Would fairly be better. If they had made this trade but hadn't traded for Jimmy Butler. Better now are longtime are both both like if they just had Covington Cyrus around weather, right? I can't say better short time. Just because again, like they're like, they're fine. They're closing fives and be tough. So like right now where the the east is still really like it's not LeBron to the east is open into. Yeah. Somebody went it. So as four teams all of which I could see winning it. Yeah. I would say they wanted to flip Jimmy Butler now for some depth be real shame. Tight Covington and Okogie like they can keep Sartre. Yeah. It that that team with the death. Of course, they're gonna be super aggressive on any like buyout candidates moving forward. But they're closing five stuff. They're starting five tough middle the game. Man. I don't know. That's if they get down fifteen in up against a good team just because they put their bench in do. They have enough probably, but they have to do they want to do that every single night like climate of a whole their bench. Will if you like because you have four you can stagger with terrible bench, his bad three guys at the very least it's gonna we're gonna have to buy Harris and Embiid on the court or Ben Simmons and Jimmy Butler at all times. Like Boba Boba can give you some of those inbetween minutes. Yeah. Boban terrifies me. I hate that. They got on the straight. I know legally. He's married to Tobias Harris they have to be on every team together. Anytime. He's on the court to say. All right. Fuck man. Yeah. That's like even like Mike Scott's plane horribly this year. So you're staggering those two around a couple of guys. And then you add one or two guys. I think they they'll be fine because I just like it 'cause he's like, yeah, we're not deep now already. So what? We still have to keep five on the court. What are we going to play four? Just give me the best best four. I'll go at their. If we need a v. Elton brand resigning himself to to get a man on the team would be the ultimate. I couldn't respect that harder. If I tried. I would have like Philly would've. I know he's just an absolute stinker of a season. But I still would have been like your like the I want Patrick Beverley. Right. Like change of scenery. This is like he he can play for his next contract playoff run. At some point. We're gonna need to guard kyri or Lowry or like somebody, and maybe maybe he can shut him down for maybe he can tear nother point guards meniscus. Him or Avery? Just be like, look, we know we have to go up against one of these guys in Avery is in the same spot hasn't been great since he got to LA but sting you just put him like if he just sees that Celtic green against them, maybe gets really pissed and wants to do something about it. You never know. Only thing is he's for some reason he's making like twice as much as Beverley. That's why just like if they just throw Beverly. And like, hey, you don't want him. Give him there. Would you rather if Philly if you woke up today in Philly at made this exact same trade, but for Mike Conley junior? Would that have been better or worse worse? Okay. Why would they? Do you think has better? I have no idea just someone floated on the time line like if they had done the same deal and gotten a point guard who obviously takes the ball Simmons hands a little bit. But I feel like is good enough where you can also play off ball. How is to buy defensively? Like, I know he's he's much more of an offensive player, but I ate doesn't feel like a liability. Nobody's while. It's Schick the RPM the end I'll be oh. I know his four is a whole point higher. The Marcus Morris. Yeah. He's a better player. Let's see. Oh boy. Negatives. I haven't got to yet the lebrons top five. So there's that for small. Tobias is okay. He's a positive point. Oh eight which is about break, even okay? Like. From this. And it feels like that matches artist. He's average he won't kill like you not allow -bility, but he's not locking up. Right. And it doesn't have to cover the other team's number one. Because that's what you got Jimmy Butler for I feel like are even like to really like Simmons got some Lindsey. He's never had a guy like Embiid behind him protecting the rim. So it's like maybe he made on. Yeah. Maybe he's he's got both. Now as I'm saying, but the Embiid Bogue on loot. All tall Simmons the point guard. A that's that's I think that's brands closing line-up right there. Thirty were put two other guys on the court. They just have those three house goose cooked cooked. It's also which is interesting. But this also feels accurate Kawara Leonard defensively at a negative point one. So basically again, basically average, but. Like he hasn't been himself defensively for God. A lot of his value is being elite defensively, I think that's interesting. That is a lot of his value. But I would also say this is probably the best offensive we've ever seen. No for sure. But even then it's like, he's. He's evident two more points. Reverend one more rebound. But he goes from the best defender to break average right saying, so it's like, no no harm will give me the other one as not guiding those bums on the west anymore. Yes, they go up against this the stout east every night. And it's it's got him down bad guys. Got a got bogdonovich man with his. Offense of numbers are up as defensive like has slipped which I mean sounds about right. But it does feel he was to me like one of the unique gas, whereas I know he's elite defensively also really good offense ably. Right. If you were. If you were LA would you've tried to get faults in this on tonight, even care. I don't even care. It's because like this point if they're just gonna. Really just see what young the young guys have just let me see what everything like give the keys to Shay. Yeah. But it's also like false. We don't need you to come back this year. We just wanna get you. Right. And then next year like it's just like a lottery ticket whatever happens happens and technically another asset as. I want. I don't know if it's an asset in to like if they're looking to sign like co wire to Max's Inc. Time for. Charity. Like for reformation projects. Listen, Jay, call said to keep his head up. He's going to be fine. Also again, like if they sign he's thrust right back into like a playoff team spotlight in LA. Another much but still fake LA. It will depend on Koa goes like if somebody big goes there 'cause I think if they get Kawai I that's when I'd be like, I wonder if they could just like to AMI Davis to wait. Yeah. Just be like like like just white or or get traded your choice. But don't resign. Collude? Yeah. I listen the way NBA has been built for literally eighty years now. Fine, terrible. Yeah. I'm fine. Way to go about things. I just wanted on the board. Like, listen like Chicago mill yakking tamper too. LA kinda took it on the chin. It was like, okay. So how much do I five hundred like that's how much what? Rob. Yeah. We got a couple where eight him. We'll just gave him as rainy day jock. Yeah. No, just a start mutate. Does this make Philly front runners eastern? Our now. Now. Yeah. It makes Milwaukee in Toronto. I can't say front runner yet. But I don't know it does make them just because it like again playoffs. More arrests your best five or six guys are just playing. So they're they're tough is five or six is gonna be like like March madness like you cut your lineup. Kinda no matter who your eighth and ninth minute. Fisher. So. Really lash last year. It seemed like the edge of Celtics. Add over them was when they did bring in the bench, and we would just attack Balan Ellie and Ilyasova so. I don't know who the bio guys are going to be this year. Their starting five is 'cause Covington even last year starting just put up stinker after stinker in that series two. So that will be covered by Tobias Astor's. Jimmy Butler, much more consistent players. But I will be curious to see the bench pieces. They add. I I don't know if it I think the top forest still the top four, but I don't know if this puts them in a different category. I think Milwaukee Toronto deserve to be on their own level in Boston and Philly deserved to be on that next level below them by that's like the Pacers are to their credit like one three straight like they're not going down without fight without Vic, but I do think they'll end up five fifty four. I mean, they blew the fucking doors off the Lakers if they didn't it would have been concerning. Forty two. Like the picture of LeBron just like sitting on the bench by himself was I woke just sitting on the steps like the concourse. Yeah. That was killing me. The Lakers are very ready to not play on the same team anymore. This like again, I don't blame him man. Like this is. This LeBron experience. This is what you you get what you sign up for. It's all I'm ready to be patient and bills is going to be on the young guys. And it's like, yeah. Forty games in. Now, they got to go. That's just how this goes. It's still abroad experience mixed with lavar ball coming out of his his cave and making just wild statements on a Phoenix radio station for some reason with that's the I don't even think they're why just think like the VAR balls breaking this trait. That's what's gonna happen. I'm fine with it. That's what I feel happen. I feel like there was a done deal in the bar was leg. Not so fast player. Wing onto no damn New Orleans. So they're put the the pause on that and. Yeah. I would I if if all fifty states want to build him a statue. I think that would be that would be correct. These are in that. We're just like the the Lakers were pulling out. We're enough ally. Yeah. Team to want your shitty offer. They call. The pelicans demands outrageous pelicans demands appear to be like we would like good players. Matchup. It's hang hang up a cut their vine. Yes out the pelicans for not being for not just succumbing to clutch. And LeBron that was that was hilarious dragon last night here yet. But I they. Like, if I'm dense if I'm the pelicans GM, and I know that like even whatever he does he might still lose his job Fisher. So it's like he's not even like 'cause if you nail this trade, you're not gonna know for five years, honestly. So I I can't in good faith negotiate into like all the best offers on the table. Right. They're not like, it's it's physically impossible right now. So I. No, I don't want your garbage. I'm not gonna want it in June either. But damn sure don't on wanted. Fedex to me. In junior garbage may be the best garbage. But right now, I know the only garbage. So I'm gonna wait to see what other what else falls in my lap. With like, that's my whole thing. Again, like the Knicks and. Christa to Dwyer her to Billy Simmons was like Dennis m- it like they couldn't have got like Marvin Bagley or somebody that Sacramento like if they're just they're just looking for cap space. So they don't care where it comes from. Right porzingas. Clearly doesn't care about being in the big market. So like. I don't know. I feel I would rather have Bagley than there are numerous pieces. I'd rather have been Dennis Smith. He's on the list. But I don't know. I just I feel like the Knicks and the clippers basically did the same thing. And I feel great about the clippers. Glad trust vision. I feel horrible for the Knicks. But that's really all comes down to definitely. Yeah. Another next of not any. Anything? They've never literally nothing. There's no reason anyone should trust the next doing things ever. And that's in there. Just getting the benefit of the doubt. Man. I. I don't know what have not desert any benefit of that literally in the entirety of their franchise history. You think it's a chance to Sixers just flip Butler. Elton brand clearly not afraid do deal. Clearly. I don't know who at this point. I do agree addict Tobias Harris to your team and just trying to fit him in for these final three months. Doesn't seem like the tallest of tasks adding Jimmy Butler to your team. With any amount of time playing like Jimmy Butler is not like what we wanted to get him in the summer. So we'd have a four year with our playbook. I feel like Jimmy Butler day ones. Same as day three sixty four. Like, I could see the only team I could see doing it. And and being able to figure it out real quick would be Houston. I just don't know what they would have to send back the knits the nets alike. We're like probably gonna make the playoffs either way. Yeah. It sound. There was an liver might come back before all-star break, which is the incredible. Yeah. So if it's like, we're probably going to make it either way. Can we see what we can do to? I think they would give him the maximum be like him. But we'll give you the. We don't care we want. We have money to spend. We're finally ready, right? I think they would I the clippers might. The Clintons were just like Yoda gallon Ari for the money and then. Like a couple bench Lou will or herald or something like a couple of those bent Lou will is that bench piece would be tough off Philly. Definitely because I was I've been trying to pitch the essay Thomas thing. So yeah, I health -i good version of that healthy better. Already loves Louisville. So yeah. So I could see like either one of those maybe the Lakers shot had just flipped their junk for cherry by the by. Okay. He's not Anthony Davis put he's met. Anthony davis. The Mavericks the maverick. We want our big three. Now, the Mavericks are settled what they got going on. Are they I think they should be. But we'll right. Yeah. I mean, they're not like if they add Jimmy they even a playoff team. I think like five games out. The okay. What if the Knicks were like, okay, we want Jimmy Butler. That would kill me. And they give up like the number one pick. They have left now. Basically, the number one picking whatever like Kanter for money. You have one of our fourteen point guards. And. Not like, basically like depth like give us the give us Damian Dotson like we would love Damian dot give us tree. We'd love tree or a piece like three or Philly and that pick just like we get Jimmy Butler like in hand. And Jerry Butler walks on there like we cap space. Knicks win win. Yeah. All that would be very funny. I do think Philly wants to go with this for though. I don't know if they're all going to be there about next season. But I would be very if I'm Philly fan right now. I would be like all right. We'll make this run. See what happens and then see you later Jimmy Butler, but I wanna keep Tobias Harris long-term. Are honest. Like, I think I would try to. Of course, try to sign them both and just figured out like if they are because you're. I don't know like their owners cheap like the new ones would pay money. Yeah. So. I'm looking right now. So they basically swapped out Chan Lynn. That's thirteen million off the books and Rettig is making twelve. So that's like that's together. Feels like Tobias harasses money like starting honestly like full is expensive, man. I think that's why he can't really. Like a end of the bench project. He's making like eight million ten million next year twelve year after that. Okay. So it's like if they can. If they can get off him in the willing to pay the luxury tax. I think they could do it until Simmons deal kicks in. Which twenty one I could definitely do it. It's just keeping Jimmy Butler arounds at any any dollars a huge risk in my eyes. I agree. But if they sign him somebody would always trade for. Definitely even if it's like, okay? Like, we have to get fifty cents on the dollar. But would just take like give us to bench pieces in a pick. Right. And somebody is like like any Atlanta or whatever. Like, oh, yeah. We got Jimmy Butler. That's exactly what Philly justed to rotational players on the pick. Yes. I was like give us a. I don't know. I wouldn't John Collins. Story in France. It's not a good year. I'm kind of I think the hawks like have some deals to make docs, having a damn good tank. I'm very proud of them. Four teams three teams below four. Give it they have those four who got the brightest future right now. Overall future players already on the team that could be a good future. If they didn't play for the sons. All the above all included. It's like the Knicks sons Cavs booze. I don't trust any of those guys front office slash ownership at all even if they get the number one. Phoenix very easily has the best pieces. But right, but it's like that at at best. They have like the second worst front office. Yeah. Yeah. There's a Suns fan. Good pry go like transaction for transaction with Knicks fans like Manno, man. We were just out west. I didn't see us getting hosed. But like trae Young's coming around like they have hurt man's looking good Collins might just be Chris Bosh. That's what I thought they might flip like deadman and Jeremy Lin for like a couple pieces heels like they're gonna be in the bottom five regardless. They've got that Mavs pit coming in like they're like everybody else is just it's scien- bust, and even they might still get in. They get in on Vahid signed. And that's the perfect tank horrify because it's like they're Knicks or at the very bottom, but they just got Dennis Smith who feels like he's been dying to be unleashed. Yeah. It's like last year. Carlaw didn't like me because I was rookie issuing Don. I can't do anything like he might. He might just go off and win a couple of games. He shouldn't. The sun. I mean think but probably the most like just talent was win. A couple of games. They shouldn't booker's thirty five eight no grab twenty rebounds. The Cavs that no idea what's going on? No. The Cavs stint. Got a couple of minutes. Somebody asked me yesterday. If you're the bulls, and they get the number two pick would you trade Laurie in the number two pick for the number one. Yes. I don't think the rest of the NBA world is that low on there yet. Like, they should be. I still see with his year Duke hasn't gone that. Well, and we've seen plenty of guys. Like, we thought would Tatum. I didn't think he looked great at Duke. And then he's been really good as a pro. So not listen chain. But I'm that's what it is. Like, right. Fant would sign if it was like, I'm also more worried about. Barrett's like mentality than anything. That's what scares me. Okay. He's I think he thinks he's the best player on the team because he always has been and now he's not. And I think it's going to they don't win it all I think it'll be that reason why and song to basketball Francis. And he was like apparently like RJ birds dead is like sending him like clips and showing him all this stuff late. Yeah. You've got to tone down your game. And it's just not clicking with Barrett. Like, that's what would worry me. So I'm no, I'm not that's why would. Choice about it. Honestly, I don't hate the trade. Just because I do. Thanks. I on his head and shoulders number one in this place. But. I also see the both getting Zion just wasting him for five years the ends up somewhere out. So I don't I don't know any you're gonna do right by Markkanen and Barrett get out of here. No. I that's why I'm saying, I don't know if it matters at all no matter what they do like, oh Sombor jerseys with was I on for certain more fun to watch. That's why. Zaylon Xilin LeVine with like unplugged headphones. If as ion Levin, Chris Don running the break just think they would be doing like NBA street like volume to type like game-breaker Elliott's. Trey Levin for whatever can give. Like, I would just want window Carter junior and Zion front court. That'd be my dream. And the reason the trade market like you. But they might get the number one and have all three, but it's like all three of those guys can't play at the same time. You're going to be forced to like one of gonna lose value. I like Martin is having a good year. And like he's going to be good. Like, this is not a is more about how much I like Zion. Then about marketing. Spend good as an NBA player. Yes. At a very good rookie year injured this year. But it's come back and like improved on last year. So he's he's a fine. He's a piece in if somebody was getting like Lori and Barrett or reddish or Bob like, whoever I think you'd still feel good. But it's like. Luca verse trae thing, right? Would you rather have the superstar or like the pretty good couple pieces? And I take the superstar. For sure I wonder if in like twenty years it's gonna come out like the NBA forced the hawks to make that trip. Probably. No, no, we. I don't know. Like Dow's way, you know, how good their front offices. You know, more will Mark Cuban treats everybody of both genders. Did you see this picture of dodgers from yesterday? Picture you from yesterday. Yeah. That's what I do. That's I don't understand what's happening. This has been all along in my on the Mavericks. Yeah. Show. You'll be like there's there's a doc, man. Spiderman white Spiderman. So spider. Park. Boy pictures of dodge. So. Yeah, that was that may be all I'm after jersey now just trying walk around be like, that's me. Listen all-star break, man. Just like the headband Shays. Doc man of the McMahon wasn't people. Don't wanna talk about it. But I did. Absolutely invent the tennis side been movement that's going on. I just did it three years ago where I'm not gonna get my credits. Fine. It's fine. You do it. Now, man you like a big Drako, man. We also did get credit for inventing, the the legends just automatically in the hall of fame thing that silver clearly took from us. And that's fine. Man. We Rutgers Vanderbilt. Northwestern. He is the right thing to do just let get the deserving Geisen. Maybe even just take those guys off the like announcing at the beginning of the season. Like, Tim Duncan will be an all-star no matter what where putting him on the ballot vote for everyone out. Right. Exactly. Is vents is this Vinci's last year? I don't. Does anyone know? Yeah. He's said I feel like he's like it would be. But he's like teams keep calling me. I'm ready to hang up in the hawks. Like, you want five million bucks? And I was like. Yeah. I wonder retire two years ago kings? Will you want ten million bucks? Yeah. So he should be the next one like whenever. Yeah. Yeah. Again, announcing Nabli Vince Carter you're in not now. Wait now for the the year lightweight and Dirk have their run. Right. And then VC and whoever. I would like to see Vince Carter on the dunk contest. One more time. That'd be great. I know you can still do it. I think he just told the hawks like can I just do this and not play the rest of the year? This is gonna take every. They're just like we're fine with it. Yeah. That I don't see why they would be like. Yeah. Of course, that's going gonna give us way. More national exposure. Just that were still a franchise, and yeah, we we're trying to anyways, we don't. I'd be off with it. All right. So next week when it's out cities and the dunk contest. You're everyone right silver's. Like, I I don't know where I get it from. I was just eating pebbles one day and. This happened upon. I'm glad I didn't oppose the episode yesterday. Because this happened had a feeling had a hunch. No. When you know, you know, it is what it is. So you you have fun on radio. I'm going to upload this now with everything else that we recorded yesterday or the day before I dunno. I dunno. It's time isn't real now. Share isn't. Oh, yeah. Dana on this episode. So if you wanna stop listening now, we get this is this is your time. I'll see you guys later this week. Just send that over before you hop on radio. And I will we can either record tonight or tomorrow. It doesn't matter to me either. I'm around either one so. Well, may well, let's wait until tomorrow cases. Unless like a trade breaks tonight with tomorrow street did land, right? That sounds right. I thought it was seven. Yeah. Is Andrew in the they're announcing the like they're doing the pics like the all-star game like draft tomorrow here, you just. Oh, you we'll do it. After that. Do I? Cool. Game one. Anything plane remains a foul when the best kept secret. You went flat. The game face the McMahon just as loud as ientist Haley. Oh, there we go. Maybe better worse words words, more as good. What's going on? Not ally. What's the word with you? Another Monday after the Super Bowl. Yeah. That's a typical regular February February that happy black history month. Thank you. Sorry. I didn't texture on the first. Late Dilip radiate. Yeah. Now, I mean, it's about the gesture than anything that wouldn't say that. You have before I've got it in writing many. That's why wouldn't say. Many separate blood oaths have been taken. But yeah, no easily easily the biggest news of the weekend. And I don't want this buried by. By the media who tends to do this type of thing. Triumphs Avs, British man. Fuck. Man. I don't know. I'm just gonna pretend like this never happen. I don't know. I don't all the details. So I'm just going to pretend it never I've never been more share a website was the onion. Then when that tweet went out. And then it wasn't. It was just like a local news station. Did not like it was the WSB which the Atlanta news. That's why I saw and I was like oh boy. Like, this is if it's it's going to be something. Right. And it was I. I I don't understand how Twenty-one savage has been like performing internationally for several years now, it's just coming up Twining behind. I had like a split second. All. Is my fantasy Russian fans. Which I'll make sense incredible. It would again I'd be lying. Why viz? Twenty one. Below to let of inches like cousin. Yeah. I used to use from guns with the the yolk brothers. Yeah. Like his use of Norwich is dad's like Gleich co officer. I don't know what they're fucking call. Yeah. Oh boy. This fresh Facebook. Yeah. Dude. I do you think we record this? Atlanta would what do you mean? You can't win it. You're not gonna be able to see me. The black thing on the wall. There's Tyler trying to hear the radio San Francisco guys. Thank you. Phones, all silent. Yes. Satellite phones, were male you to ever you got him on Tyler low. Dan. I just saw him for the first time and feels like many moons you've been traveling traveling the world song say I would say the country have you left the country. No, then we'll stick with country the world. Exactly, right. It's the world you you're not wrong their friend hot start, boys. You squinting to try and see Tyler. I'm upset this podcast because all time. I don't know, man. Listen couple eighteen thirty beers last night a little out last night. Where were you? I was my Buddy's house knoll was drinking. But I was stressed drinking. You're carrying the load. We in New York. Nobody would drink party was all I was the only patriots fan the they were like betting on the game. So they weren't really invested. But it sounds like they were technically very invested. But they just weren't drinking eighteen thirty beers. We can call this. Yes. At the end of the night there were like, dude, you were drinking this whole time. Like, yeah. I was awake. Wasn't. I. So. Yeah, that's why squinted that's my excuse. Definitely an excuse about. Should farewell for whatever's happened. So I just saw Dana for the first time. In many moons. And he said, you you two were were all square say that it's exactly you said that he said he handed you thirty thirty beers throughout the week in. That's a fact then did that motion with his hands. I didn't do that. Yeah. Do that one everything? The best part was him handing me a beer. And as soon as he got back with one hand him the bottle cap. Drained and he'd have to dispose of them too. I woke up in the more like eight bottle caps in my pocket. Yeah. Listen, you know, the way to my heart, you, it was a strong move. I was just trying to be friendly. You know, is that what we call last week? No. I was very unfriendly of me. Yeah. Do you know do you understand the ramifications of hashtag, Don within within this company? Yes. It was. Very rattled right now. It's the consequences of your act. Yeah. The says you're gonna do overs in his life shit. Toy savage is British man. Torreon savage was not British before you were hashtag done these butterfly effect you go back in time. You sneeze on a dinosaur. Boom. White people never exist. You never know. What's going to happen? This is the lashing. I need. Needed was the note, whereas fiddling with the phone, you just fiddling. No, he just failing. I didn't know it as a as a high school youth. But if I ever had saw him at a principal's office as what it would look like for share a horrid. Based on their you, much more beer. I was on the road for three weeks. And I started I was very hairy. I'm still very Harry in other areas. All right. I'm sorry. That was that was appropriate. I told you about your dick and balls is that what area dick and balls got. And so I got home yesterday. I was like I'm just taking it all off. And I think I look good all on the face. Most of it. K yet your that ball to no. The balls at the did you go bald trying to like working BIC into this conversation as it? Did you go bald like bald headed man quit? I'm growing up the lettuce as we say in hockey community where my hair. Yeah. The mud family the lettuce the mud flaps in the salad and the flow. It's what I call that. Yeah. Did you start those are you trying to get those the pot? No. That's what the boys say. I would definitely start still is right now. He would be like what we say. These are things. I definitely say. I don't have biz remembers anything. He says biz doesn't know my name. That's what I'm getting to. He certainly does not no money. I think that's why he just keeps saying the boys. He's probably a dick and balls. It keeps talking about him nonstop. We were talking duck players love to talk about Dick's. I think that's what it is. So they've coerced you. Yeah. I'm John JD. No longer basketball guy, would that's that's not sure now. I. I'm. I part the second part. I'm not I'm a basketball. I'm not a hockey that was a joke. Everybody knows them not hockey. I just like to make people laugh. The biz was in here right now, you'd be like, I'm not a hockey gab. It depends. If. Man. No, I wouldn't. It'd be I love buck. Swinging. The puck tape the tape. Let guy won't stop. As soon as more, dick and balls innuendos. No, no more. You said you went on for three months. So get three months worth of note three weeks. I didn't really take notes, but I wrote down a life update. If you want to hear that. This is. Yeah, we actually it hasn't been three months is that what you're talking about. That's literally the words. He just guess. Okay. My bad. It was your bad. I'm nervous. Good. What is the over? What does this mean for us? I feel like this in your life updates. I thought I don't know. I'm gonna I'm not gonna questions questions only, always lead demise. Dana life update. I listen to music I liked it. But instead, I added old music from project x to my playlist the movie project. Yeah. So does the sound. That's two thousand thirteen. Yeah. So I listened like new Twenty-one savage. I loved it. But I didn't add it please British now yet, but you know, don't talk about that. I had a girlfriend for a week. Anymore? This is a funny story. Which week was. Yeah. Well, what's the timeframe? This was probably the beginning of the three months. What's good word for absence absences, a good word? Hi, this is about a word, but continued to November November area post. Thanks. I think it'd be around then. So she's a fine. Young lady. She the EMMY on Twitter one day respectability one to ten say. Eight it's always a ten failed Arinda. Starting at six and then tried to pivot. And then went into eight. Seven point. Like a one byte score six point two. She Demi one day, and she was like whatever you like start talking and she lives in Boston Alvin York so back to Boston. And that tell you got beers with her at like ten AM at south station. Yes. On like, a Tuesday that girl. Okay. So I I saw like two weeks later, I was very drunk in a hotel room. And I was I was shit faced. And she's like, she basically, it was like are you ever gonna ask me to be girlfriends like this the second time, I've met you. But I didn't say that. I was like, yes, sure. You wouldn't add drunk. Yeah. Now yet little filter live. But I didn't say that. I was thinking that. So I was like, yeah. I guess even though I didn't really want to this was definitely gonna last with that kind of balloting and. So I guess he was drunk or she was sober. I think she was drunk. I don't remember. But she basically forced me. And I was like, yeah. Sure. I don't care, and I went back to New York, and I didn't see housing really want to have a girlfriend. Why I do that? And I broke it off. How did you? How did you go about? Really? I gave her call. Ooh. Okay. No text messages. I'm not I'm not a phony. Did you call them like a phone booth or something you feel you Dana move? It was a cell phone. A how many beers? Did you have before the phone call? They go sober for it, actually. Yeah. It was you know, I had to just take a deep breath and figure it out the what was that? I was like, I don't know. Why did that? Listen, I was passed Dana future. Dana things ideas stinks p you is what I give this relationship. There was a ten on the respectability scale of me being nice about it put it that way. Humble. Yes. So a you did this if my timelines correct you saw her for the second she asked to be in this relationship. Like, it was like a it might have been the third or fourth time is our so, but like this conversation happened early December. I don't remember the timeline is all over the hour the hands man, she did have good hands. I will remember that forever. She had great hands sound like she like died or something. Chris carter. She came across the middle hours and easy. I could drag though, she could hands. Yeah. That's why you know. It's a good para hands just gone to waste as I always said the talk now was the was the via nano really blocked on Twitter now. No following jar. Okay. Nice girl the girlfriend after a week. She was a seven we are too. So what does she like? Okay. Or she was like heard or I think she was hurt. But you all that's what I guess. That's what I do. I just I make women fall in love as you hurt people. It could be both. No, I just made a mistake. You gotta smirk. I think you just breaking up. What people do something for you know, I don't like breaking people. I just. It's a funny story like a Larry. I think I think she was hurt. Larry. Scarred. A psyche forever. And the other thing is never trust again. This is the thing. We didn't even what's the word. We didn't even fuck on to make the relate. We didn't. Fuck. I was gonna say more gentlemanly. We didn't have intercom late. Yeah. So that was like the other thing. Like, why am I why am I going on this mess lip was it like a we haven't had the chance to do this? We had the chance I didn't want to do this. Or I would though it was just it was mostly me being an idiot. You know? You know, what mad at then? I'm not mad at anything you sound that period. Squinting see him. You could see how Matty. Good. Nice. Nice lady. I like her. I just don't wanna girlfriend at the time. I still don't. Kevin girlfriend without consummating the relationship air that part. I feels like a wild move to. That's what I'm saying. It was mostly my fault though. I heard hundreds of my phone with also just hurt Riyan was like Dana being a relationship you agree on. I don't wanna be in a relationship right now. I'm just kind of doing me you don't live in New York. Our you make too nice. That's what it is. I could've been like not girls heart. I'm kind of on Christmas Eve. No, she's fine. Okay. Was I thought it was the last time. She actually takes me this weekend shoes in New York. And I was like. I don't think it's a good. I would say. She just want to hang out. I think it was one of the drunk texts like at twelve AM. And I was in my skivvies on my bed. Are you going to consummate it now? Because I feel like you should know. I think though it complicate things. What could be complicated? I can't imagine Dana complicating things in any way, shape or form hits you like, man. Oh, man. I feel like I planned on doing this to him. Now never have the chance. Listen, I don't I'm listening. So we do here. It's in the past. It's my notes. It was funny. It was a fun story for the boys and tower moving on starts. Right guys break, your heart. She's fine. She's a nice girl. Should it was a week? If it was like a three month thing. Yeah. I would feel bad with the the how brief it was, you know, an fascination work. I'm doesn't this Mastro week is nothing week is everything. Dollars thousand correct. I'm moving on. Okay. I'm taking control of this podcast. Definitely not. But keep trying not not a chance. It's like may walk into danger office like we're trading Tatum. Now, he's like fucking you feed off my desk. I had a dream IB. Choline an argument. Okay. Drained was the argument. I don't know. That's all I wrote kind of trying to tell me like DC was in Ohio or some shit while we were driving by. You know, what was the argument about? I don't know. It's just I didn't I got back. Will you woke up with one of those shitting smiles when that's probably the best dream. That's funny. Somebody tried to buy two hundred thirty dollars at JC Penney and one dollar at white castle using my debit card. I don't know how they got it. Probably. I don't know. I'm pretty loose with my financials. One dollar. Why cout even get for like, I've never been inside a white castle testing the waters man, getting them, you know. Yeah. I suppose, but not one wasn't great had to get my new debit card and all that stuff. Yeah. I fell in love almost drunk for this one. I fell in love with two girls whose numbers I was given. And I never texted them because I'm a giant pussy. Marla working on that one that I two separate situations in which other. No, you didn't checks either one of several girls. Our like we met in person, and they're like, mutual friend. Tell the text me here's my number. I haven't done it. Either of them how how long the time frame. We're talking here. At least a month. I've been. It's like tra- traveling. What what's the point of what am I gonna plant the seed is that what he is planting the plant this lead? It's literally exact Fram. I a lot of crabbing is sitting down. When someone's like, hey, you're basically traveling right now, you might as well be on a plane somewhere you're doing what you would be doing on a plane. You get time if you want I get nervous. These are people that say they wanna talk to. No. But then I'm gonna end up being just going out with them after a week. What a horrible. Oh, what you're right like everything. They're struggling from the record. Now, saying I've seen the light. Listen, I might like her. He might like me it wouldn't work out with a family like, well, what do you do that? So I got to work on that. I'll plant the seat. Eventually you run these ideas by biz and your other POWs. No, I don't I can only imagine I didn't go on spitting chiklis, by the way. I was just there filming that's bullshit that I would never have come on. Now. Like, I didn't go on there and start talking about fucking lists. I write down like that is on. I grab the mic. Before you got your hand in it. Mike Ryan Whitney's hand would have been through your Thurnham. It would have been instinct just picture them talking about like everyone Ray Bork data's like Alleyne guys. So I these two girls have fighting over me. But I refused a Texan both. What do I do? They just take all of their hockey sticks. Which I assume they carry it all times like ninja turtles and beat the hell out of. I think my answer all fair. This isn't a call in show. How did you get this? And also, my whooping offer that criticism is unnecessary. Didn't do anything. Like, I was there. It was a business trip. That's what it was. It was a business trip on business name around. You not texting either one of these women while I'm gonna I'm gonna do it on Wednesday one of them. Yeah. He'll on Thursday. Yeah. Tomorrow is a is a recovery. Okay. And Wednesdays the day. Okay. I've been thinking about what to say for while. I haven't I haven't planted the seed, yet Hayes honest. I think if you call them for. Ooh, call I would just show up head. You're gonna shit your pants, regardless. This is straight up with what it what would happen. If you call you're at least going in there like prepared what if you taxed, and then they say you with a FaceTime like like that. They're not gonna FaceTime me. You don't know that I do know that you're putting the ball control. And so what I'm saying take control situation you did with this podcast, which was going. Oh, so well, we don't know each other. Like, you don't just FaceTime someone how you get to know somebody. That's true. It's like hadn't talked at all in a month. Will this call do they know your number no guy? So you can't call. What has I assume? Bill collector of some sort. I'm gonna texter on Wednesday. I'm gonna sell. Would you say I'd still call the Buback? I might be Dana be what is this the seventies making phone calls? Okay. Get out of here. Okay. So I I wanna hear that was when window napkins blew out the way you lead. My aunt. Yeah. We went on one of them. You clearly like more though do. Yeah. She's very hot good-looking looking attractive. That's Wednesday techs. That's because maybe we should warm up on the ugly. One build your confidence up to the attractive one. Yeah. Nobody stepped onto the mound warm. Yeah. Just be like, hey, batting practice catcher. A five. Hey, it's a material gonna work out or someone. I actually won't I'll talk to you for more than a week. Ugly. You know, I took my Texas you stick. That's. I was doing literally anything ugly. The crept hand looking MRs Muffin. Okay. So now, I want to hear more about Thursdays with what the the less hot one. Yeah. No, she's just I dunno. She's a girl like I met at a bar like a mutual friend. Oh, man. They don't Dana right now is acting like a comic who thought his set was gonna kill his gasping for you're doing great. But that's how you're acting. I'm overwhelmed right now. Oh, yeah. Big time. What's your opening lying? It'll be in this tax ones. Oh, I've been thinking about it for weeks. That's why I'm asking a mistake. Something along the lines of like. Actually, we met a bar. We talk for like ten minutes old, whereas you met at bars. Yes. Hey. Are these these like they're pretty hot, right? Yeah. So that tells them absolutely nothing. Hey time that we we hung out that one time and we talked for ten minutes. I was sick. What did you talk about during the interaction with the hot one? We talked about what monster that you hate. I would never use that word swamp monster that's extremely unacceptable. You this girl in very bad like, yeah. What month? We talked about our jobs. We talked about our friends our mutual friends. It was just my only don't blower spotter. Would what does she something to do with lawyer? So did you tell them what you actually did? Or that you worked in business? You mean, finance the many things? Yes, I wasn't wearing a suit. So I said I said my real job. Okay. I didn't make already good. You didn't start by lying to this young lady. That's even better. If you did have to like texture by I met you. I was in the suit. I do finance. My mom did mail me my suit and tie my desk right now. So might toss that on take a stroll down Wall Street. Facetime heard off I just got out of a finance thing. The NASDAQ Hollywood hogwash. Yeah. I would I would probably lead off with like, hey, this is Dana star. It's been a month traveling at my right? That's what I'm going to say about travel. And then I would I would try and hearken back to something. You you spoke about that night. Exactly. What I was gonna do. Definitely not. I'm really just asked you what you're gonna do. We're gonna say, hey, remember that time we hung out. It was sick. I'm a very good. Texter? That's a fact like I also good, Texas. I can have a conversation. I I know how to keep it flowing leader. Only ever had you in here to have conversations. I'm not agreeing with this. I'm better at Texan. Because I can I can like think about what I'm saying instead of being put on the spot and getting ganged up on and just ruined everytime. That's okay. So I take you like twenty minutes to respond to. I can use my brain without being put on the spot tax. All right. You know? I'm a good. Texter? I'll say what you you told me to say a good that's along the lines of what I was thinking at alert or boyfriend because we've taken them right half. That would be devastating tournament. I mean, it's able why you just can't say totally married you call ugly. You'll okay pretty time down let me call ugly. And she's like a now, I just head very very pretty surgery. Very pretty and you're like. I got the surgery on Wednesday. If you're attacking me twos. Was outpatient. I'll say big, wow, he's a stall. Order to collared jersey, which they Broncos. Okay. What do you order a Kyle Orton? Ebay gadget. What we need to set up. Eventually is. And I'm I'm sure EBay wouldn't allow this. But if we could get set up face to phases with you buying these jerseys because I'm assuming there's gonna be another Dane on the other side of the computer someone else. There's no such thing as Dana someone else who thought is like a great idea to purchase at a point in time. And in this lifetime tried getting Charlie Whitehurst, but it didn't exist and Jim Sorgi. Neither of them were uneven fach. I saw Charlie whiners the Cardi B party, not the bride. What a what a sense. Yeah. No. It was like a, wow, that's Charlie. Wider was his hair flowing, buddy. Andy a- salad like the lettuce was growing the. The the man the strong man bun running into the full beard. Listen, he's a handsome double is his clipboard Jesus. I saw the Harvard men's basketball team on my flight Tommy anchor. And I didn't hit him with a spin move or crossover? I just sat down and was respectable in tweeted about them. Instead. Regret or now. Yes, pretty heavy. Regret onto a tall tall men near very tall. He'll yeah. Posted one of their bitch ass. Fuck. Try to say that so cool then come out goal at all. Now. I mean, you got halfway there in the news, the Bandon it. Say I would have posted one of their bitch asses up. I mean, you've lost all the lusty. I don't even know how you went back to the well, we knew where you were at basketball. Learn how to broil a steak about that pretty good who taught you my mother hasn't say myself, but that would have been a lie. Yeah. Donna come on trying to steady trying to raise women's contributions to your life. Hate to say it. I went to Vegas and saw a cool ass AGIP shit in Titanic museum and took a sick picture on the edge of that Titanic throwing up the one which arms out not throw the one. Went to Joan got drunk with old ladies. Okay. The we didn't know really fun. Do you get any number knobbly singing dancing Queen? We're seeing some of the old time stuff on new. Yup. Guy. Did you ever let your hair down like this in front of they were closer to your age ring, no Chrysler loop? We gotta figure out what the divide is man. Why already let your hair and we'll we'll get to not today. Now. That's maybe actually, you know, you'll Heidi get a future. Invite some extent, I don't know. I'm just saying let's finish. That's not what I was saying. I don't know. On this. We're gonna therapist tither saying about a suit and hung out with the mix tape guys. Haven't worn the suit since other than the helicopter went on not a big deal. They spitting tickling all it was with with Dave actually, not a big deal is been. I can say what would you helicopter to do like ten minutes just to airport? Not a flex like. Yeah. We drove somewhere to drive somewhere. It wasn't. I can say not a big deal without being chiklis guy. Like, everybody says not a big deal. They sell schertzman. Yeah. But you know, what you put on a shirt, it's yours. That's the rules. I have a tentative plan to clean my bathroom on the fifteenth and also by shades for my windows on fifteenth of February day, yes, we're going to be in Charlotte. Okay. In the sound. Mmediately from Charlotte. I mean, we paid on the fifth fifteenth. So yeah, I assume that's why you were planning on. It's just the onus goes in. Okay. So I'm gonna buy some tell everyone. So we can get robbed that day job data. Okay. They give it to us in Canada. Hear that IRS like, no. It's definitely under the tape. Yeah. There's not much much else in the life of Dana ate a lot of Indian food. Yeah. Had a girlfriend for a week. I wrote down my run. Oh. Actually, not that good. Let's hear it already. I wrote down my reactions to the playlist that Tyler gave me awhile ago. I just don't know where the reaction are. So take a little bit. If you want miss keeps growing, and do you want me to stop scrawling Najib that? The the ugly verse hot girl thing is so funny to me can't believe denoted them. I never said she was ugly. I said she's one of them really hot at say anything the other one the other one could be hot the other fired. That it was inferred. It was. One of them very clearly was getting like, you said you were going to tax one of them that ones that set it all Wednesday wash about some blinds Wednesday to know. All right. I won't fair enough. Counterpoint checkmate. I'm flummoxed stymied. Even move my bed around in my room. So now that like, my two windows are just facing my bed my bed like I'm here. The windows are facing me fell silk. No blinds, pretty sure the whole west village can just see me jerk at all. Is kind of why you said it up that would be honest. No, I did it. And then I realized like that's what I need to get. I need to get some shades. Fiver respectable young lady, the whole state of New York. Could see me having a good time. You know what I'm saying? I don't think we have to worry about that. But. You don't have confidence in me. Not miss lightest, mother fucking half, two two girls who are interested in you and had a girlfriend in this not like while one I want to. But I I know I don't I don't often. Okay. See the Washington. Yeah. You shouldn't adult I won't hit. You're not selling us any anything to go off of right now where at a car these girls came to a car dealership. They're like we need to buy a car today. I have to get inside a car right now. You you're professionals to sell cars you alike. I have can you like hold that thought I'm gonna take three month lunch break. You're not wrong. I like an Azure walking past the first client to go to lunch. Another client approach to another horrific looking, right. Yes. I need a call with the most tinted windows hide how ugly I am. I need it now. And you're like, no. You grabbed a wrench inside chasing her around get back. She demon broke to with the the bad end of a brutal. Then you. You bet get. Being mean? Which is going off of the information. We've been fed information. I fed was at one wounds very attractive in one of his attractive. What's respectability scale both of them? Now. Ten both. Bye. A nine and a one that's what I heard I have five respectful one in five or the other. Listen, I'm listener. Everything's gonna work out the end of the day for myself. Yeah. You guess definitely us. I just need to figure it out as they say what happened in Atlanta. What do you mean by 'cause you're outbursts? I don't know. I blocked out during it. It was it was an appropriate set of vents. I mean, I talked to Tommy smokes today, and he was still Shukan up from this. Listen. I'm not gonna say a mistake. Bowl. I'm not gonna say accountability in any way. Having you can't I shouldn't have said hashtag done. There's no going back from hashtag, none. They wanted to the lights were on. And you liked it. I didn't. I don't like the will stick cameras in my face. I don't like being. But you like doing it to other people? I don't like when people put it in my face. And I got I don't know. I got scared day was right there. I love. Dave. I am load. I'm very loyal to Dave. He's the reason I have a job. He's the reason I'm a fan of his company, and I got scared, but you also didn't think of the ramifications. Like, hey, this slippery snake over here keeps keeps biting the hand that feeds them that doesn't scream team Portnoy to me. And it sounds like Tyler was beating was very same Trump. I you could have said all those things about Dave. And all those could have been true. And we're still the hashtag done come into it. Because you guys were being mean, I wasn't even there. Those guys haven't talked to me in three months. We talked to you. What do you mean? With me. You don't have many times sitting at my desk and coil walks by a hey, can I come on the podcast, we don't record here anymore. That's where we right now. Have you right because the room's open, and what did I do that was because I forced her hand. No you sang gun. So I'm winning right now. That's. This is this is. Did you see what Donald consume said after the game? Now, the he said they completely eliminated Julian element from the game. Like it once the clock struck zero. Minutes sixty one through seventy five that guy put up no numbers. My brain is starting to go right now. I'm winning right now. Yeah, I'm winning. Did. You just say the comparison. I just made on your brain. Those are dumb comparison. You're dumb. That was gets so far out of his skis. You could see it coming. Boy. Okay. That tell tell the dumb ugly guy what you were gonna say. My plan is working. I said I was gonna say shotgun to get back on the podcast. And now, I'm here. Boom. I'm winning. Yeah. Yes. In our offering last on the pike asthma. I didn't eve. Before we left for Christmas. What did I say? I don't know. Of course, you're fucking idiot. I said I want you on the year end episode because that'd be a really good one. Then what happened? And you said we're talking about Simpson's. Do you know the Simpson though completely different episode? And then I was like, yeah. We'll let me come on. You're like all right. The only thing we had time for in this studio because the two studios have been completely taken over since radio. Started was the Simpsons one because people aren't here that week. That's one of twelve times of asked to be on. Listen, what is your other favorite podcasts? Say PF t always says never I invite yourself. Not ask said, hey, you guys recording today. Just we'll nudge or those always like, yeah. You wanna come on? And I just never get on feels like it sounds like I was saying, yes, all the time. According to you, I don't know, passive aggression, didn't work. Who knew I can't get a girlfriend all these girls. Keep texting me I won't respond. I don't know. What's happening? I don't know they still winning. No. In fact, I'm losing. That Decca cards crumbled quickly. I gotta stop stop trying to form words when arguments you see when he was announcing that his brain was working the face that overcame them. Blue screen like Microsoft, resets. Like, I just had a recalibrate. Okay. Can I just make statement now? Boy, it's not written down or anything. This is Pat impassioned from my heart. Okay. I love the in were. In February Jesus Dana have you even wished Tyler happy black history month the birthday shit. I really have my I got a birthday coming through. Happy black history month our race. I love the mix tape guys Sam, you guys are my are my pals, I consider friends, I consider you. My you have grown me as a human. You've grown me as a as a person who is able to speak on a podcast. I don't want credit for that. Real bad before. You are my you are my favorite people at this company. Thank you. Sometimes you have to make decisions and you have to put your fist down you see that shit fucking fist of the table. And when you don't get on the podcast. When these people that have grown, you and made you into the human that you've become deny you time after time you have to make statement, and you have to say, listen. I'm here to stay mother fucker you said the opposite of that. What do you mean here to leave? He said I'm done many times. So yeah, what are you getting the tattoo? Now, I don't know if I wanna get it. 'cause I don't know what your guys intentions are with me. Feels. Thanks, sure. Someone's intentions sound like every girl you've spoken. I'm here to help you guys with your videos. I'm here to if you want me on the podcast. I'll talk whenever you want. I'm here. What we were going off before. And all of a sudden, we're at this place. I'm here to do that. But you have to understand I can still be understand. I can be loyal to ury doesn't have to do anything. I can be loyal to both you guys. Dave. I believe that's true. I think that's I think that's it. So that's where it was like, okay. So hashtag done would prove to fly in the face of it. The hashtag done was a little much drop. A hashtag listen, you drop a hashtag on on on Dave in one of these little I would never rains rebooting moments that you get. I would never knows who sometimes you just fly off the handle you guys just mess with my brain. And start saying stuff. I never does that to people. You guys put me in bad positions. Sometimes, and I don't know what to say. Like right now, I'm just take accountability. Still can't take accountability in the same way. You distant from the the bright lights of the Super Bowl Pala jazz. And the in the podcast closet out. Great a genuine while on the same form you wrong me on this really at you feel. I am genuinely apologetic recreate the Super Bowl this week. Well, wrong Graham and back into Atlanta. Yeah, we're going back to the abbey for another low awake. Back just not a game at the ends. Like, I'm working on it. I just sometimes struggle with trying to be liked by everyone. I'll put it that way about that. Okay. And I love you guys. I'm looking at goalie right in the face Tyler camera. I can say I love you guys. I'm sorry. Okay. I apologize. That was heartfelt. You know, it was heartfelt less than five minutes ago. You said I was dumb and let you were winning. Why? Not like seven minutes. I don't wanna I don't like drama. I don't like look at there's a kid out there. Who's responding? All my tweets calling me ugly. Who whoever that is stop that? That's not as we didn't sick that person. I you sick. Into this of other people. I don't know why people get is it that girl. She's she's been getting it could be burner count for all. I know. That'd be very funny. It would be listen, you give me an idea. Every tweet I have it's this going back to like, I don't know month ago when I said, I'm making waffles and swings like shut the fuck up. Every to have is like. No, I didn't I kept on tweeden rebel. They for every to have there's at least two to three people being like, here's snake data Durant. A hate you. You're ugly. Name is max from Dunkin keep saying your ugly. Okay. Max love the consistency. Following ugly. I'm a snake? That's accurate. Oh, I tweeted about the game yesterday. Some just goes shut out. I don't think that was. Although he said shut up snake an adult. That's separate. Oh, you got another shut up. I don't think there was a. Are just responded saying both of them. Can I I love it? I love it. How do you think you get Milton tough? Not by how you're doing it. Take some bumps and bruises along the road of always said that for millennia may now, right? How how what how's your handle written me? Yes. Dana underscored being on tend to be underscored number three shout out to my Twitter lake number spelled correctly. Yes. He said it was awful as you're making. Yeah. You don't have to look for a tweet. He just said shut the fuck up. But I want to search your at and shut the fuck up in millions of people could have said that like I want this. I want the waffles win in particular. I can tell you what the tweet was. I said I have had a multitude of waffles today, which is a stupid tweet. I don't know why that. And some dude with like one follower. Not saying the reply which is killing me living here for. This is literally September. Yeah. Four. I'm not seeing the reply somebody threw them at me in September. Also. So I don't know if that helps this okay? So people are out there. If you searching you find that tweet don't at thank. Do not you might dilute it he might hurt himself and be like, you know, what that was kinda mean. Now, I'm here for I'm here for the bus. If anybody else that you'd be cracking up. You don't what Tyler I deserve. It. I deserve to be called snake. I deserve to be called Durant. I deserve to be told to shut the fuck up a deserve to be like, hey, you're an idiot. You're traitor. You're stupid, I deserve at all. How about that? The fuck up. That's larry. I'm taking a count ability for my actions right now. If you want to eat at me anytime, I tweet I challenge you guys thinking talk. Talk. Oh boy. The streets spent my face, please. One thousand dollars cash. At all times and the sweatpants very easy to get in. And out of the other thing is my like, my family like they don't know anything about barstool or like anything I do on this podcast. And they'll see these replied Dana. What did you do? I replied like my dad has a Twitter. L C my replies. Would you do? We've raised you. Better sister re tweeted all of the year, ugly ones yesterday like tenement rowers. The older. It's getting internet bullied all over the place. That's fine. Listen, I can't be sunshine and rainbows as they say will take takes a little rain to get those rainbows. Right. That's true. That's true. What's that fifty cents song when it rains, it pours that applies somehow? Fat meteorologist. Oh, hear a sick word. I learned from being chiklis Gus share about Meterology CRA popular race there. The rays the sun shine through that was like in heaven CRA, plus killer spell it. C R E P E S C U L A R. I'm nasty at spelling, by the way. Yeah. We gotta smelling just like us three murder. You guys defenestrate the F E N E S T R A T job. Yeah. Look Jones uses and I wanna want 'cause I taught him that word defenestration where did you finish in this who on the spelling the opposite Mellanby? KFC K mart. Now wasn't kmox. Kemoko hosted it. I have to do after finish up a video. But you guys questions are concerns for me. Now what the fuck up your wild house. Talk to your ugly, girl. How did how did I do today? It was a fucking rollercoaster reports where you were very politics or other point to recall me, dumb and. So you were taking control of the podcast, and we bust balls around here. Yeah. Yeah. Talking about Dick's again. It might. So what's the future? Look like for the boys fucking mystic of some sort. Mind vited to the next trip. We go on. Yes, we already talked about this at length. Headphone out of off the mic. Love you. Like you say back, Tulsa, thank you. Let's go. Good luck you too, good luck with your tax. Yeah. We'll we'll read it. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna do it here. I'll send I'll show to you before Sunday. Okay. If you put a time stamp on Wednesday. You have to send it it'll be after work. I'll do it. Okay. Okay. I can't wait. Sorry. They didn't say anything. I don't know if he knows what you're sorry for black history month. He said black history month is what he sorry for. Then they deserve the. And now he just keep saying the N word while. Will then he'll do that Massachusetts. Boy. Don't forget listen. How could I? So how was it seeing all your former teammates this week? Made amazing. Always people tweet about would have been meaner tweeting. Now, I'm kind of nominal corner. I'm like, wow. Maybe mid Smith was good. It's I I don't know which way is up anymore. Man meeting people. It sounds like correct. I want to went outside of my house every single day for we'd be as I don't know if I've ever done in my life. Would not recommend will not repeat. You made another smash single with Sonny digital. That's all we can say about it per order. Big get. Yes. It's it's why I've heard I've heard it's fire very strong. Try the your Europe so close with Calvin Ridley there to be in a heartbeat away from Julio Jones. Yeah. No, I absolutely pulled the fire alarm went out the back door. To make sure he I wanna know parts of it. South on a games podcasts against see me. But he blacks, both my eyes. I got to roll up to the I it's not a good look at me. No, no. I would agree with that beats me or even worse. He's just really nice Ladyman understand what you're saying is like I try really hard touchdown. It bothers me too. I'm like, no. Much me in the stomach by much rather? You just punch me in the stomach. It bothers my kids my wife to I'm like, no, no. When I lost my airing at Lake Lanier. I was I was trying to drown myself due to the due to the touchdown thing. Those my one family heirloom Mike stops. I've saying things. The Super Bowl itself. What what did you? Did you watch the entire? You didn't like that defensive throwback smash mouth football was honestly, I enjoyed the like the first after me felt like. The defensive battle. And like I thought that was what I was like I thought the patriots looked unprepared. I don't being its own notes. Unprepared. It's just like the Rams were really prepared. So it's like, okay. Let's take a timeout. Let me okay. Let me take another timeout. Let me make sure I'm seeing when I'm what I think I'm seeing the second half like especially the Rams they had like at least two touchdowns like they missed out on. And even though I felt like I had like a lot of drives going. How do they still have no points didn't make any sense though? Like the second half stunk. I enjoyed the first half everything stunk. What I appreciate it about the game was felt like the fourth quarter. Got there very quickly. So it wasn't like stinky kept stopping. Yeah. Agri? Like there was relatively quick Trebol. There wasn't a single replay. Right. I don't think. So I'm trying to even really remember any they feel like oh well officiated game. Like, my missing anything. No. I saw people purpose. But I felt like it was just like fairly just seem like it wouldn't really a talking point to me. People were bitch bitching early. When Burke had gotten murdered by Roby Coleman like he caught the ball. And just let media got a helmet Dalmat people like classic patriot. I was like what the are very easy. Call to make this kind kinda Roby Coleman just going in on the Robie Coleman. Fuck it. He's it got me got me. Like sometimes at work sometimes won't keep running this play till the wheels fall off. Yeah. I don't hate it. But listen like as very blatant penalty, the other one I thought they were gonna call was when Gough was scrambling late and our corner, I think it was Jonathan Jones just like buried him like as. As he was about to step out of bounds. I was like week seven I feel like they call that every time Super Bowl. I guess that one gets let go but I fully expected flag. Now for sure I like, that's. The goff's pocket. I don't even say it's his awareness is just like so weird. Like, I thought he sees he's like a second late. And I think as part of being young like he won't always beat his way. He's like as he was going out of bounds. Like, I could see the GAC home in. And I was like, oh, no leggings, but you have to get out of bounds. He's going drill. You even if he takes the flag if he just lays a good one on your starting quarterback. Like, it's worth it. And like that was like you can't take that sack. This equa. He'll most got drilled and just ended up on both his knees. What can you do stuff? You can't take those. That's a second later. I would realize it Kyle van noy to Goths credit Calvin didn't appear all that close to them. And then before he knew what he was on top of them. Nope. Sure. That's why like how did they drop that guy is on the screen, but even is. Oh, many things. Yeah. That took them either. Add of like Greg legs in the dome range like sixty five those like just keep giving yourself a chance those the sex. You can't take. Yeah. I thought that Hightower sack to also knocked them out of field goal range because I know as airlines like planner foot was fucked up. Yeah. But he drilled that one not so much at the end. I think he was just like, you know, what else wants to score points. I'm done too. Yeah. I would not no. We feel go missed in that stadium all year, which is layers from Greg maybe Lacey, the best kicker right now, you're Tucker. We'll know Goss kiosque missing the first lawyer. Yeah. Iran, but just what he doesn't Super Bowls. He just ends up missing a extra point or field. Yeah. Atlanta upon is were incredible. Yeah. There are a lot of random like, oh, I think like Johnny Hecker the MVP the Rams when I was while it was still three three. I was pushing for Matthew Slater. Just because he had a number of. But he was he was was one when he was just showing he got down there. And he's like watch this. Down to three with his takings. Yeah. I like I don't mean had over one hundred yards. Like, I think before the game started. He was handed a hundred yards. And I was like, well, we've only got three point. So if we win six three here, I'm not gonna wanna hear like the wide receiver argument. I'm gonna wanna be like no field position clearly won this game. They absolutely never would have given it to him. But that would have been electric. Great do ability. I'm giving him the max craft. I don't care. Money. We we saved from the Jimmy G trade all the Slater, graph it. Okay. All right. Listen, he wants the game defy me. I don't know if you saw any of my blogs, I've only got one hour asleep because I was just up to listen, I saw you work in Danny? I was I I had a I had a six twenty five train from Boston back to New York today to be back for the yak and everything and I it was like two thirty. And I was like three hours of sleep is gonna do me nothing. So I'm going to up to piss me off. Right. So I'm just like an stink at waking up. Like, I'm better. If I just stay up leg, I'm I'm a dead person right now. But it's better than if I had just like slice left for like an hour on the train. Just like the worst sleep ever. Does didn't even? It takes more energy like going and getting back to sleep the new just say by just close my eyes and listen to music, right? Right. And I feel like the sleep didn't even really count because it was like I had on like podcast and stuff, and I was just like not fully asleep at all. So I don't know. I don't know. What is happening the pain, man? Yeah. You have to but a Sony, Michelle. Had statistically the second. Best running back playoff stretch of all time only behind Terrell Davis is ninety seven run where he was Louis redeemer. Who's three was also Terrell Davis. No, no. I was. Because I was joy, Jamal Anderson. No there was let me save. I find it. It was like there were a lot of guys who so it was like I was basing it off of yards for carries and touchdowns. Davis was tops in both the average like five point one and he had eight touchdowns over four games. There were a bunch of guys who had six touchdowns, but none of them had which is what Sony finished with. But none of them had like like he was at four point seven one yards per carry. And no one else was even over four five. And then there was one guy who had like eleven carries for nineteen yards. Six touchdowns. I was like all right. I don't know. I'm going gonna count your own. What is it was one of those Redskins guys? And so. And Sony was the only rookie to ever have five touchdowns. Let alone six so I I call it the best rookie running back playoff stretch of all time. And just the second best overall running back stretch of all time. And there are a lot of people once civically who real low on that pick. When it happened. Couldn't be me. Now, listen, I would've tooken sunny Michelle first saquon Barkley second. Oh, I don't even mean like the never draft a running back first round people just Pacific, Lee, Sony, Michelle, and I think he made his debut. If I remember correctly against the lions a game in which no-one played well. Because we have blown off the fucking field at Mattie iceman upset Astaire and that was being held like really just against him. And not like the Hightower got killed that game too. It's like Hightower just came off like a terrible injury. Man. We can't give him any time to get back. Like, we know. So. Shoutout Sony, just a monster all play offs absolute Mazda. Very happy is going to be here for a while. Rodham Rodham through all rookie contract. I okay. Okay. What happens to him after that? My other take that. I I still feel as correct? Dot Hightower is the single best. Super Bowl defensive player of all time. On about that one. I'm sure there are other people who've had intimacy three three. Okay. And I'm sure other people who've had single games that were way better than any of his individual games. But the fact that he's done it like all three Super Bowls his fingerprints. Are like you can't when any of those three games without him. Lemon is so he'd three and two. Is he in the three he's only three now has he was out last year. Okay. Gotcha. Which I was like he was on one. But he didn't play. Gotcha. Right. Yeah. He only played five games last year before he was out an top deep into. I guess. The two sacks. He had were incredible. Like when he like, we he doesn't rush that often. But when he does it's always like, oh, he could if he just did this exclusively. He'd might be the best in the league at this. He just gets the back. I'm pretty good. So he has the the marshawn Lynch tackle that set up the Butler, and exception where he had a torn pack. He takes on Russell Oku at the line just bench presses a model them and then takes down like. Would you say Mahjan's like the hardest to take down one on one running back of his generation? Second to p character of the phone calls plate. Now. He's gotta beat up their top three like hardest tackle one on one running back vision. Like one yard is an I need a guy. I'm probably one of Lynch apparently not. So maybe we can't give them that. I would want to share cantered. So he did that set up the Butler interception. Obviously P Carl has to be an idiot for the Butler in his after. But if Hightower doesn't make that play that decision never even comes to fruition. They didn't matter. They win the game. The falcons when it was twenty eight twelve Gostkowski just missed a fucking extra point and hit a field goal. Such a ticket. And Matt Ryan like it was third down. So they were going to punt. If it were an incompletion, but putting obviously field flips most likely, and it was we didn't we we were pretty short on time. And Hightower calzone number. He sees other setup. He blitzes outside camera whose plan left end at the moment. But he blitzes like inside him. And just absolutely pants. Devante Freeman and strips acts. Matt Ryan puts us I think the twenty five which was enormously helpful we scored immediately made a twenty eight twenty. Recipes history after that. And then last night. When young out I got a little nervous. I started thinking about Rodney Harrison who also shattered his arm and a Super Bowl was it like first quarter was relatively early to write for first half assure wouldn't it. I believe it was the for Chung Harrison, John. Yeah. It was. Second quarter or was it. No. I think it was like very very beginning of the third quarter. Okay. Because I saw him like walking out like before they walked out. Everything was in for halftime was might be right. I don't know. Yeah. But I all I remember him getting up. What's he said? Fuck the cut and just walked I was like, all right. This defensive jacked up because that's such a like thing that doesn't matter. But also matters a ton. And then he was like he just like God a sling and then just stood on the sideline the rest of the game. It was like calling plays. So young was still there. But I knew the rest of the defense was going to be. All right. Like, we're now we gotta fluctuate up in that I put on Hightower Hightower. So I guess the patriots defensive plan. They played golf kinda how they played manning and three oh four where manning do you? Remember when you used to play against manning on Madden, especially if there was a computer. Yes. Did not like it. Yeah. He would take it all the way down to like one second, and he'd do a fucking million audibles, which I mean, the Rams don't do exactly that. But they do wait till the last second with the headsets to like actually, call the place and say run out of the same personnel. All the time. So we just use hand signals and Hightower was calling most of it. I mean, they were all talking that you have to. But high tie was calling most of it and I- golf was flummoxed the entire game the entire game. Like, I'm kind, of course that worked. I'm just amazed. At is just what you do. Now. Like, I know everybody, of course, it had like the person the on the timing and everything to pull it off. But like if we played breeze. We couldn't have done that. No for sure metal type is like is. That is golf just is eating see a system quarterback is basically what I'm asking. Yeah. I think he's a super young. And it was mean for Bella check to dial up like an old defense used to use for Peyton Manning. But fogging worked. So just take advantage of like, we didn't do that Mahomes. You know what I mean? Like, we were like, no, we're just gonna make sure we're like very much on top of tyreek hill. Travis Kelsey and hope Sammy Watkins doesn't beat us. Nearly did. Home will welcome. Yeah. Show me another one I like this. But we basically played from what I've heard we played zone on everyone except cooks who we just stock Stefan Gilmore on who. Gilmore's like this corner football right now by I don't even think that's like a lie. He's gotta be if he's not him. He's up there. I know he was graded the number one quarterback. That's not the end all be all by any means. But like his first month as a patriot. Remember locked his account because he was playing so poorly. People were being like, you don't deserve all this money. The patriot. I was shocked to but I was like this guy's not fit for this. Like, if you're locking your account on Twitter because people being mania leg. I don't think it's gonna work out. I was wrong very wrong because he's bending credible ever since like October last year. Yeah. I mean, cook still headed a good game. But it was I think the numbers over sale is impact. That's not on cooks. It was off was like, I don't know. What the hell I'm doing any cooks had like, I think two or three receptions on that final drive where the patriots were just like if you're gonna stay in the middle of field fine. We don't care yet. Keep it. Yeah. And even they also should have had that touchdown where he was just like in the end zone sitting down like Jared pleased. Like I'm and I didn't mcquarry rented to one now Jason twenty. Yeah. Yeah. It was like I my only chances to just try to destroy your your your solar plexus eight. I thought I thought they were gonna have to bring like an ambulance out because of how mccourty like ran into the fucking upright. We like is one of those. Who just takes those hits. Like, oh, yeah. No, no. The other ones I'm going to get either. It's insane. How like far mccourty ran in like I'm looking at screen shots. Now that I'm gonna tax you. 'cause I haven't seen it from this angle yet. And it's absurd. Like, it was absurd watching it. Because we got burned against the chargers with with a handoff that didn't get handed off. And so like we've had that problem before mcquarry was like not today. Do it. Yeah. Oh, he's. He's now his job what seventeen eighteen yards away and the ball is in the air. I don't as Addie not as they can be. I don't even think that's handed away. Like, I in the first picture. I don't think that's him. Shit might not be because how that person wouldn't run like they wouldn't be able to ride that anger. I need somebody posted gift. He had the forgot about the the been Watson one. Getting champ. Bailey. That was a great one. But even then. That's a play. That's haunted me because I feel like with modern reviews, they would've actually called that a touchback. But at the time they didn't have so many angles, and because at the mo- at in that moment, I was like he was literally on the centimeter line. There was nowhere else. The ball could have gone. Could have only been touchback here. So when it happened against the jets like the first touchback they called a couple years ago. I was like I've been waiting for this literally since two thousand five I've been waiting for this exact call finally came the old long car would awesome. I think it was Austin's fearing Jenkins like fumbled. While he was scoring a touchdown. Like, no, touchback sucks to be you pal do. Yeah. KFC was so mad. I was like, buddy. Trust me. Ben Watson mean anything to you. He was like, no it doesn't. Truly does not but back to Hightower like three Superbowls dominating and all of them. And then the one you don't plan you give up forty one points and the other ones you. I mean twenty four to the Seahawks is too many. But he made that play. The falcons they had the pick six the score all the rest on offense. Yes. I think so there's no kick returner nailing upper Avila's want like they get helped by. But not a touchdown. Okay. I'll trim. They were short fields. I don't remember them. Mike have long drive. Chanels who plays the fuck up. But. Yeah. Hightower to me. Just like ease. It is some that's only gonna piss patriot fans off. He's the best fifty four to ever played for the patriots. Don't disrespect to Tedy Bruschi Tedy Bruschi was thinking Bruschi. Yeah. It said Hebrews who jersey you will still see all over Gillette any given Sunday. Hightower's Ben that fucking guy why he was like he fell to twenty five where we were allowed to draft him. No idea. No idea. It's like he's a he's a linebacker. Not a edge rusher. I think he could. That's the thing. But he's not. So it's. He shouldn't be. Yuck. Oh, no. No, no. I'm really like I remember that would I was like, I don't know where Keith was saying about roquan Smith is I I don't I don't know where you're going to go because you're not like lie. You're not rushing the edge. But you can do everything else. Like those guys just seem to work out time and time again. Yes. Time and time again. And I I look back at that draft to see like if there were some huge fuck ups, and of course, there are couple. But like, right. Right like, Stefan Gilmore went nine like pretty good picking. And we wait like Hightower wasn't even the first defensive player. We took. We took Charlie Jones at twenty one or twenty three somewhere. I think twenty one. Now, the good pickers yet. Funny one. Yeah. So I mean, I I I would argue for a guy who gets no credit drafting like decent draft. Bella check. Pretty this is pretty good draft though. I around it was locked G three. And then I don't have Matt Kalil the. Now, Keithly Gilmore, Don. Terry poem Fletcher Cox back to back to back to back pretty good. What you cock is also insane. He is really good. That's the take. Now. My take remains if I had to especially like even just hanging of patriot. Like we've never allowed fucking three points a Super Bowl before the eighty five bears gave up ten Tony Eason league. I don't three points preposterously low. And that Rams offense wasn't like a joke. It's not it's not like who's their white receiver. Cup. Yeah. Coober carpets. It's not like he got hurt in the NFC championship game. He got hurt like the middle of the season. Like he's been out like they've been buying without him. And three points. Like, of course, Jason mccourty made that play Gilmore made an assumption after we set an all out blitz that the Rams were just not ready for even though we had like nine guys the line of scrimmage. They're like no chance up not here. They all come with. That's that's on us. We should maybe seeing our government. But high tired to me if I had to pick a defense and like their only goal like it wasn't for a whole season. Their only goal was like, hey, we have to go in the Super Bowl. I don't know if I could pick anyone else in good faith. Nine really like I was looking a new he didn't have a lot of league one Pro Bowl. When all pro. I thought he had more than that. But now again, I agrees really good watching very much. So watching like him dominated bam was like, I don't know. Like again for that. Exact I know that he he's not going get like fifteen six like, I get it. He kind of does everything I don't know. And like he had the the past affliction to start the third quarter. That should have been in interception. Like, I'm not gonna hold it against them that he didn't intercept it it would have been nice. If he had intercepted it. Then Gilmore punch that ball out almost where he did everything in his power to try and recover that inbound that didn't break he was just so all over the field all game. And it's just like he's three times. Now, the one time he wasn't there when we made it to the Super Bowl, we fucking get a forty one hung hung on us. Like, I don't think that happens if he's out there. Derive mayo was good. All right. That's your Tennessee by correct? He is better than mayo. Mayo was very good. None of this. Now. Both things are true. Tennessee piece of shit. I've only heard very nice things about your. I've never. Tremendous player from even better human being definitely. But. Yeah, patriots while I with this is this is the opposite of where I swear not the opposite. But like an seventy eight when like the Red Sox won. And then the patriots were undefeated going into the Super Bowl and it was cagey in rounds. First year in Boston. I was like we fucking got it. We got the season sweep we're going go the whole year just every of the three major show hockey of the three major sports Boston going all of them. And there's going to be an undefeated team in the middle of that somehow the fucking undefeated team fucked up, and he do Celtics held up their end of the dealer at songs one. There's now it's like, yeah. The the Celtics and and the patriots and Red Sox one, but. The warriors were team. There's nothing we can do about that. I would take the the city like season sweep over nineteen. No. No for sure I agree with hundred percent. That's an incredible flex. Yeah. Yeah. Nineteen really only like future about football. You don't care at. All. Right. Nobody cares about the seventy two dolphins. I see easily deaf for the whole because it's like I'm just picturing like the SP's to which no one ever cares about the when they do like best team. And it's just like the Celtics. The patriots the Red Sox Atlanta United. Marrone takes home. I just I I don't know. I don't know how it's going to happen. But I now I want Celtics Lakers like bad just so we can also be a season sweep just against one city. That'd be impre-. LA? It would have to be a like a sports town though that make it even better if it was like manna got Philly about here like four straight again, every sport Lang LA. It's like we don't they don't care about the Rams at all. But there are a lot of dodgers Lakers fans know for sure. I'm I want people care about the clippers. I don't know. What's gonna happen? It's not gonna happen. Shaken grow on his own. But like the. We I don't know if it's been top sense. But when the Red Sox beat the cardinals four it allowed us to we beat the hawks when they were in Saint Louis, we'd beat the Rams in one, and we beat the blues back in the sixties or some shit. So we we had that city sweep to the point where have all those teams anymore. It's decades support for sure, but it's still the only time I don't know if it's happened since I just know that was the first time it had happened. But doing it all on the same three hundred and sixty five to the Lakers Rams who definitely don't count dodgers would be. I'm pretty good. Yeah. I think I could just walk into anyone's home in LA just claim it as my own. They would beat him. And he had on a B says the beauty LA. So everybody loves it. Hey, you're my house now. Did anything happen with girlie series was? Nothing. Come out yet that I've seen he. He had that one long run that was taken back by a like hands of the face or holding. That was tough. And he looked very disgruntled when he saw the flag down understandably. So. Yeah. But yet I'm and because it wasn't like at least in the other game. C J Anderson was cooking. So it was like, well, why would run away from this? He was not cooking. No one was cooking in this game. Now. But even it was like at by CJ Anderson didn't cook well colored me spray together wasn't employed for three four NFL. The steam ran out while but he just awful day. Like, they didn't get tin carries thirty five years, but one of those sixteen yard, right? So it's like again, he really like nine carries nineteen yards of one kitsch negative one yard the LA key. He wouldn't a factor at all. Now people were saying like he can't I love girl who's been good. Now, everybody's turned on the raining or the offense player of the year. Yeah. From last year by we can't pass block. He doesn't break tackles, and he's not that good of a pass sketch. I'm like, hey, listen, you're not wrong. But man, oh, man. It turns quick real quick. But it's like the rent let the Rams didn't have like that person to just run like a quick route like Cup would they tried to throw passes like, girl and Anderson? Those guys just aren't like PASCAL by natural by the ad OMON. The even Rex Burkhead, man Burke, you gotta give them some Whitman it all white and again, well, James white clearly ran over someone's dog or something I don't know how or why he was written out of the game plan. But the first past week is the first pass he got thrown to him was a bounce pass from Brady that blockers were set up. Like, I was it was a play. We've run a billion times. I can't imagine. How many times they've run in practice? Brady fuck until you tell me if that was adamant with a hidden right in the numbers, probably. Man. There are a couple deep shots to Chris HOGAN yesterday. And I was like why can't you just be just Gordon why? Does he get you think he gets like LA vote on it? Let you think he gets room thousand percent thousand percent. I would be shocked played technically six games like he played. Yeah. I didn't think that no he put up like seven hundred and fifty yards or something with. Yeah. I didn't get off here. He vitamins like a couple of the Browns. Then he got traded. Then I was like, well I like he missed a couple in. Then he got cooked hit. I'm looking at up. Just because I everytime. I look at it shocks me. How them? Let's see. Yeah. Forty one catches seven thirty seven yards. Four touchdowns. Trust him any actual out Andrew suspension. No eleven getting for sure. Yeah. That's what I mean. Like, he I just didn't think that's on me. He played one with the Browns. So he just played a lot more this year than I thought he'd be just Gordon had like a good season. Then he averaged like eighteen or nineteen yards per catch with the patriots. Didn't he he has one game with the Browns. The at one catch for seventeen yard touchdown then forty catches seven hundred twenty yards three touchdowns eighteen yards kitsch. Yes. Oh, yeah. He only caught touchdowns with the Browns adver tween seventeen eighteen yards a kitsch when he was not being suspended. That's like a like a Brandin cooks season like eleven hundred over sixteen eleven hundred yards. Not that many touchdowns. But I'm stretching the field. But we would've won thirty to three if judge Gordon plays in that game. I promise you it would. Surprisingly, they didn't have to defend HOGAN deep. They if they had put no-one on HOGAN if they had just let him alone. He would have had the exact same impact on the game digs out. Mike. Sure, you wanna sleep wide open. Wait let let's make them connect. Oh, that's right. That's right. What happened is a little hat. A listening wave Phillips head his dad game. John McVeigh's their games. Not Sean McVeigh for listen. If if if we're gonna talk acidly called Brad Stevens Boy Genius, Sean McVay doesn't even get that respect. Oh, no. That's why I was like, man. Oh, man. The Bengals about to pay his quarterback his his instant. No way like me and my coat my hat. We held up. Jared. You should wore the head Atallah should. Sean, maybe maybe your day should have been cooler. So you'd wanna do a tribute him McVeigh was mean, Yikes. That's okay. Like, even the patriots are doing that. All okay. It's about adjustments. Right. So yeah. If you are boy jeans. It's okay. They're doing that. Then I'll send you to the land with three plays two of them are fake. Like, we gotta do something or get hand signals involve like anything other than well, they shut the headsets off. 'cause that's the NFL rules were fucked by even honest. It was. Like they rushed with three point four yards carries a team. But girly had three point like, even if it's like, I don't we're not getting yards through the air. Like, even we're getting three and a half from girly. Maybe we can get to like third and four like thirty three thirty four makes up the happen. They got a couple of penalties on third down which like saved him. Oh, yeah. Big. And I wanna look at the final note because I remember when Lamar Jackson had a first half like that. Boy, it was like you gotta go to the backup quarterback ugly. Who you in is if your quarterback? Listen, I don't know because it was never suggested. And I. Maybe offals better. That's fine. It wouldn't be much. John, man. Yeah. I was gonna guess Manion. I mean, they then he bowling be like flacco. So I get that part of it. But they blunted eight the first eight drives a head the ball. Yeah. They did. I couldn't believe it. If felt like like Gough was itching to turn the ball over the Rams in general didn't even have to come from Gaza. But the Rams are itching to turn the ball over. And they just kept putting and I was like all right. Maybe like, maybe these are the turnovers, and we're about to get like shredded deep, and then they have that. And then Jason mccourty rent faster than humans ever run. And that was on Gough too. Because he just had to throw that. I don't know five seconds earlier because cooks was opened like set up a camp late waiting. I'm still here feel it was like off like I'm taking my time. I've got gotta put it on the money and cooks like, no, no, no, just put it up. I've got nothing left to right to room. Right. Yeah. You could throw it to twenty is behind me. But since I'm so far away from you. I can fully stop and running go catch this. He's like I'm very fan. This is what this is. How I got this. Okay. I got this job this. I got this lifestyle. And man. Oh, man. I know. I can't go back. Lamar. Yeah. Can't say Lamar even cooked at the in golf didn't do that. So. But man, oh, man if you really are doing that would eight straight dry like the entire first half. And you don't know girlies hurt or not. And I don't know. Do you like do? Honestly, you consider your backup because I know is never discussed. Maybe it shouldn't have been. Yeah. Now, I don't think I do because like our offense was so good all year like it's ballot. Check. It's it's the patriots. Like, it's our first time here like that would feel to over reactionary. But I also didn't think taking them are out was smart idea. So. Yeah. I was on thin, and I wouldn't have touched golf last night. But I'm just saying it was the same excuses people that you can't he's income. He's incompetent, right? But the scores still close enough the one draft could make a difference. Definitely. I think as I just think if you saw shy Manion warming up ballot check when it just like taking headset off been like, well, this game's over we flora. Hey, take it over. Adjust stop the car, man. We. Oh, man. The no six for Brady. I don't it's like the people love to talk about his numbers. People want to shit about his numbers last year. They weren't having it at all when he threw five hundred and five yards and four touchdowns. Whatever the fuck. It was so long is what he threw boards. That's what I meant. Yeah. So he gets the win on numbers aren't good. Another gets the loss sets all these records. No one wants to talk about that he lost. So we're not gonna talk about the numbers last year. I don't wanna hear it for this. You got the win. And he threw fucking dimes to gronk to win the game rock Brock's third healthiest human being on the planet. Bind Colli in boogie. Very spry. Rules brown. He's once he started doing the thing where he's running. He's just holding the ball like tennis ball. He's looking like somebody's head to run. I was like, oh, wow. This guy's hero. Fuck you know, this is grunt grind. And that was it was like Tom Brady looked all. But like every it'll have like a great throw. And he lived gronk until like some beauties. They someone had it earlier Brady was like fourteen for seventeen when targeting them to note has been. Nineteen for twenty three Ataman had been for twelve. And gronk was six percent. Yes. Sixteen nineteen. Yeah. So he was everyone else. He threw to like fucking Chris HOGAN and James white, which I still don't know why James white was. Governor twice Burke here in twice a Patterson it on all those one of four James white for five yard sunny over to the entirety of the pass game goes where like the well. It was like the first option wasn't there. So Brady just threw it at like its feet type plays. So I don't even know if I would consider those real targets Hogan's now you've been on here. It was like those aren't real target. Must sort of confusion going on here. Yeah. No. I I don't know what Hogan's contracts tuition is. He was good in the falcons game. I'm all set moving forward. He did nothing. This. You get a with my UMass Isabella. Oh boy. I would love Isabelle. Do you turn? You turn him into Isabelle you in there. I mean, Isabel wide receiver one in this draft. So I be that'd be swooning. If we got his bell a good thing that why receivers in the draft kinda stink. I wanted to be like why receiver six I'm the only person who has missed wide receiver one. So so I believe he is like wide receiver eight for everyone. Keiper is gonna steal this take. I'm fine with that blog at weeks ago. 'cause he announced that he's been training with Randy moss. And I was like that's all you mass and rainy MAs. Yeah. This is best receiver in the draft. I don't wanna hear anyone else. Brent heat rendered the one person. I didn't see this week that wanted to. Yeah. In run into raining. Yeah. Next time. So. Yeah. I can't imagine. This is the other thing I was thinking too. Like, I don't understand why unless you're from Boston and like our age why you would like the NFL. Because if you're not from Boston, you don't like the patriots and they've been in nine Super Bowls millennium. And they've won six of them. And it's just like well everyone hates God damn team. At least last year. Like, I could see why people like lashes who will the eagles finally won patriots lost. It was a high scoring affair watching last night's fuck in Iowa Wisconsin game. Was I can't imagine. Like, if you're Rams fan, you don't exist. So doesn't matter. And if you're just a fan of one of the other thirty teams like what would a horrible night to be a football fan. Now like fund funder Celtics play a better game yesterday. Then the Super Bowl, not usually. I'm white trying. They get techy lead. Ten better football game. Kentucky fastballs play games yesterday that game. Again, I did like the person. But I thought the second half it was like man like get somebody. And I kept thinking was going to happen. It's okay element and gronk or still like they're still getting loose, son. Who's running golf is connected on a couple in nothing. Punt a punt. But yeah, granted the patriots. I thought the like the dolphin should be hype. Right. Like Florida the floors showed his ass in that game the whole playoffs really like the second half against the chiefs. The chiefs became the chiefs. Again, I'm not gonna hold that against him. Like he held off the dogs for the entire first half and part of flute man part of that was the offense keeping Mahomes stapled to the bench for the first like nine minutes of the game. Just getting him like actually like freezing cold. But yeah, they I mean they forced three nights in that first half the charges that we dismantled so. Yeah, florez. I I don't know. I'm sure someone's gonna be like three zero four someone's going to park in like the paint manic three hundred game something like that. But like this feels like the best patriot defensive playoff run of all of them. A meaning maybe a one since that was like the greatest show on tariff in like Brady wasn't Brady at. But I mean Brady wasn't exactly like like he had a good. He really good season. But it's like playoffs like Sony had three touchdowns against the charges. And then birkhead had what to last week against two weeks ago has achieved Sony had another one any through that red zone. Interception of gronk. He threw that interception. When he was targeting fucking HOGAN the first quarter of the Super Bowl. Oh, yeah. So I don't like Brady obviously was just the factories on the field. Like the other teams game planning Fram all week. No matter what we're doing on the run game. So he obviously has major impact, but Florez and Bella check for I don't even know Belgium practice offense like during the playoffs like fucking run the bottle gives shit. We're just gonna we'll just do what they don't like just let Tom. He's he's got it. And he's fine. But we're just we're just gonna clam up everyone. You see Mahomes motherfucker? We gotta figure him out. We got like either the Rams or the saints. We had figure out we gotta lot shit to work on and motherfucker that three three points and Super Bowl to Sean McVay. Yeah. That's why. It might be the best because the way it ended like it's three points for the Boy Genius. The gathered. I'm looking right at these new highest three people got their jobs directly this year because of Sean McVeigh's influence. Zack Taylor on his staff. Right. And then like the floor kings. Whereas these guys are just so handsome, but they're so innovate. They have to be the next McVeigh. Boy, boy, like I I see why like if because if the guy hits the Rams are amazing shape. So if it hits you're good. But I don't like why would you not I guess try to like the dolphins is half floors. I okay, he just takes care of the defense. Like, and we try to find McVay to be often the coordinator, not the head coach. I just someone's right? Like what exact Taylor going from the Rams quarterback coach and Brian flows? Like yoda's like cumby mom McVeigh for the dolphins bars. That's when I Blake. Oh shit. Like, okay. Like the staff, it'd be freida. I know he's taking the patriots quarterback coach. Was given a lot of credit for working like he hasn't done shit with Tom. But he's worked a lot of Jacoby. And jimmy. Okay. So I don't know what I can't remember what his I think he's just going to be quarterback coach there too. But I mean, they're bringing new quarterback. So that feels important. Hill. Like, do they say? I think it'll be good for the boat on. Yeah. I don't know who's gonna take that might be a backup somewhere. But oh, buddy. Listen, just you wait. I mean, I'm sure he will be starting somewhere. But it's a bad idea. Of course, Sam Bradford twenty million dollars. Somebody's gonna be like, listen, we couldn't get brantford. We gotta get Hannah hits be like Denver. They're just gonna keep bringing in these shitty quarterbacks day, and it's gonna be buying jersey re year seventy five million. Now, you're right. That's probably exactly what's gonna happen. Yuck. But like, I'm looking like of these new coaches. And like aliens feels like he has a track record of success. Correct. Gas has a track record doesn't data about it. But everybody else likes Kingsbury. I'm good Zack Taylor again. He might be going from quarterback coach eve Boswell of somebody's three points to two head coat. It's also like he you need a good front office. It's the Bengals do. Like, you know, what I'm saying? You're not going to get the help you need. Freddie kitchens. I've like they should be high about him. Like, he is the best name of these. So far Fangio. Sure. Like introduced Saint try to find your McVeigh Matla Fleur. I guess we'll say, yeah. And then floor like, I feel happy about kitchens, Laura's and Fangio. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. In gays and the rest. Yeah. We'll see. We have Flora's with monster. All playoffs. And it wasn't like I mean, he's been in the in New England for a while like working under Patricia and everything so he just stepped up he moved gradually up like we've been talking about with all these other guys. I do see success for him is the first time I've taken Miami seriously like ever. I feel like this is that's a big step because again like when these coordinators in the past went somewhere like you didn't you weren't like oh shit. We gotta pay attention to the lions now now. But so this is like if they do this in if they just nail quarterback. I want them to go collar Maso for bed. They might. I mean, certainly on the table for him. I feel like a better option in twenty million ten able I know. I dunno does he'd have who's offense coordinator. I don't know. 'cause I know that I don't even think he's technically signed the contract yet. I think they've agreed in principle. But see this is the other thing too that I feel like has happened when all year coordinators take those meetings like went during that by week or during the playoffs in general. They're not as focused like as they should be on the game. This is like like the timing. Does always feel weird. Right. It's like you. Can you literally just give me like seven day? You have all my undivided attention. I needed higher now. Right. I've never understood the rush like this. Why bad team stay bad? Like, no. We need to today or we're gonna move onto our second candidate. Like, wow. Why would you do that like with clearly you don't like fucking Dana at the chicks? Like, why would you even think that way? Like, no, you're our guy. Yeah. We'll wait. Like if you're serious about being a head coach, we're serious about hiring. You never understand. The rush that they all put on themselves. So. Yeah, florez. But that's like the Rams like it. Doesn't shock me that Wade Phillips was prepared because he's fucking going anywhere and their offense wasn't. So who's there? They do even have of coordinated like is it just McVeigh as he calls the plays any. Yeah. Also, he didn't have his hold that guy. He's aid has what have you not saying? He has like a guy who holds them back because he wanders onto the field. His one year. Whether he was sick. He didn't make the flight. Feels like a guy that McVeigh was lost without hold back guy. I'm just saying sound like Boy Genius needs everything perfect run to and that's fine too. But it was painted like, no, he's the one creating the perfection, right? I'm looking at said, he's floors is the NASA Chad O'Shea who's the current wide receivers. Coach for the patriots. Okay. He's been airline time to. Yeah. Sees me since two thousand nine as the wide receivers coach of the Vikings. If at three years chiefs. Three years. So the Mississippi for three years. Wow. Almost like again, a worked his way through the man, man. This makes me incredibly nervous that Bella checks the poll like power cells and just take like a president of the Miami Dolphins type role. Maybe was Brady would've. Would you be a patriots fan? Honestly. Yeah. It's too much shock, man. Gone. Just ride it out. Yeah. It'd be like how can I complain? After all these years would be I'd be like, well this fucking stinks. But the I wouldn't be like, I'm not patriots. Anyway. I would I would be. If they brought that throwbacks back. It would be a different conversation the floor. It's first matter business. Hey, McVeigh wasn't. He he lost that game. When he picked the blue throwbacks fee pick the white throw bags. We lose that game. No, doubt my mind. The dunno. Donald just look scarier, Donald how he. I don't know. What? Like when when he was. I thought he was gonna lot much larger impact not saying no impact on the game. Because a couple times they've Tom Brady up in spiked him into the ground. But I thought he was going to be unblock abo- so shout Dante Dante's Nekia who pitched a perfect game. All plus all playoffs. Now. He I mean, he had his that was the points. We have to dislike limit. That's yeah. This is just do some stuff and to their credit. They were able to limit it. Sky Nekia retired after the Seahawks Ribaud he's offense of line. Coach. He retired after the Seahawks ruble, the next years when we went into Denver and von Miller had I don't know like twenty six. I'll never forget him. Just literally just pushing groman just backwards several months like they knew he will come into. He was telling him. He's like I am going to go hit that guy bind you. Yeah. I hope boy. And then I'm pretty sure Bella check and craft like immediately left that game. And they pulled a dream on. They just got wet right to Scott at his house. They legless, and we we just need you to coach our line. Like, that's all we need like we'll figure everything else out. We need the line. And he came back mmediately beat the falcons. Then we laws last year which there was only one sack. I remember correctly. I was the first Gordon who was a very important play. But. But no for sir. If you know that going in then you take it a hundred times out of mind, right? Yeah. Like, the Rams would take thirteen points. One hundred times out of a hundred like those things you sign up for hersher. You gotta figure out the rest of the other. Yeah. Or you don't get some are. Yeah. It happens. It's crazy is this was the patriots largest margin of victory and suitable. I did see that. I was like. Wow. And it could have been larger. I mean, just from like gust Ascii who's automatic just missing bit over their last eight quarters of super bowling there. Plus two. Like, they lose by eight. They went by ten in a game where they scored. Twenty less points. Eight points. What are we talking about? They lose forty one. Thirty three Brady has a stork night. They win thirteen to three. It's added. I'll never be able to figure out the Super Bowl. And I see it every year. I think I'm a really won't Bill Miami. Now. Like, just like, yo rose great. It's awesome. Why you already got everything got Bill Parcells come in here and talk rap with resigned. He's like, I don't know about my legacy. He's like Brahma Laker for life. My like, you know, what I'm saying? I think Pat Riley the Lakers like, yeah. Other people think of the Knicks to like either way you create what if you went though, but and if you win that's even better. Yeah. That's what I like. That's just ising on the cake at that point you. Yeah. Bell jack. Lazy in New England. Good forever. Is anyone who would jump off? It'd be like no, I'm not with the steam anymore like those which is going to happen. I know that's going to happen. Those people stinking. Nobility just goes there. He like, listen, give me foles. Do you? See the eagles are plan on franchising trading him. I'd saw. Does that mean they can only for like two first round? Or can they still negotiate it? That's what I understand about the franchise like alpha. Yeah. I don't fully understand if you can like extend them or anything. But it's also like your trading for a quarterback that can only make twenty million dollars for one year now. So that seems to drive the price of the trade down. We can't they. It was like once he gets there. He negotiate like an extension. If the. Yeah, I think I I would hope so. Yeah. No other way, sounds like he didn't they probably offered him some under the table money for their buy out. And he was like, no, all right. You're gonna make us play legal. Don't blame them. Not at all. I get it. I just don't know what. I don't I don't know what the trade market. Like, I I'd rather pay Nick foles twenty million Sam Bradford or Ryan tannehill. Right. Yeah. I'd rather not pay to Sam Bradford at all. That's really what I'm saying. Yeah. I wouldn't wanna pay him just legal currency for like two reaching on my roof. I don't even like, I don't know if he'd be a good backup, man. He's he gives getting hurt. And he thought it'd go is that what you want direct, and he's like a backup where enough of your fan base is dumb enough to be like if your regular quarterback stinks. We like, maybe we should give this a try is the number one overall pin? I'm just saying he's the number right? Yeah. No. You had the completion record for awhile leg. Ep lose things. People. Forget. So. Yeah. Football done only basketball moving forward Tyler on the whole fame. Graduations. Try did make holiday like Bruce make it's really loud didn't him it. It's real. Yeah. It was Tyler champ Bailey. Ed reed. And we. He. The was alive. Man. I can't remember which one. Information is on the internet made probably and not. We saw it read the party. He just had on the hall of fame in before was announced like man on man. Well, they over like a Super Bowl ring. They announced the like the times that it would spent everyone debating like because I do it. They don't do it like ballots. They like, we'll put you your picture up and just like talk about you for however, long and tiles kinda like it. Yeah. Tiles was the longest like they announced this before they announced to God end. So Tyler was the longest that was debated. And I thought that meant for sure he was not in like if you're talking about someone that long that doesn't sound like hall of fame. Yeah. His was like twenty seven minutes something did they show like what the people were saying? No, they just they just released the times I would pay to hear what they like some of our just wanna hear these debate. They reported that Ron gorgeous who. Is a patriots writer who was like the first to report the demise of the patriots. And when I say, I I mean like two thousand three like, okay. So he was on early. Yeah. And the hasn't given it up yet. Correct. And he's going to be I'll give him credit will be the first one that gets it. But he apparently made like, I'm very impassioned speech. And he also acquired a letter from a think Brady, and it was either Crafter Bella check like two of those three as to why Todd's will be Famer in that who's I I don't know how long those letters were. But that would apparently get it done. Against good much like very much, desire and Edward was two minutes and two seconds. So I assume there's one around the room like, Yep. Sure is never what two minutes of technical difficulty. The champions who voted pit bull. And who am I think I surprised he's not already in Gil Brandt? Tony solace laws. Kevin a y what I feel like we've discussed a couple years. So I'm I thought he would get in. I guess feels right? Ed reed. Johnny robinson. As grew should be knowledgeable and editor James as well editor James at also. And that's why it's it's like did Ataman. Settlement lock it up last night. It's like heating of nothing until Isaac Bruce in lake. That's a travesty doesn't that personal by the move. He retired like top three like everything. Direct one England made it to another one was like he didn't buy some playoff credentials, correct. A he's been van agreed same Adrian Jacobs. Yeah. And I had other people trying to say 'cause I said now that tiles in and I don't have to fight that fighting more. I was gonna move all my attention to James is Bruce, and I had a lot of patriot fans being like what about Richard Seymour? And I was like listen Richard Seymour and to be to see more credit. I didn't realize how many all pros he had. And he was but his counting numbers when you're when you're the edge rusher. Or when you're the edge for the patriots. You're not a Russia. You'd literally just set the edge. And if you fall into a sack great Seymour has to less career sacks Aaron Donald and seven more years. Aaron Donald not put him in all of him right now. I agree. But it's like you guys an interior Russia. He's not even supposed to do that. Like Chandler Jones has like twenty more careers axon less time. So again, if if the pro football famous going to start looking at things like, no, he made all I think he might have been all decade. I don't know. But if they're gonna look at things like the all pros and not counting numbers than rich. Zemo? It's got a great case if they're looking at counting numbers for defensive end. I don't see how he gets it. He has no double digits axes. Ines. I think it's highest was eight and a half five. Remember from what I was looking at the other day fifty seven and a half career. And listen rich Seymour was a monster. Those patriots teams, and I didn't get to watches Oakland years as closely because it was the other side of the country. But even there like he couldn't put up in a different system put up double digit sacks. So I if they're to leave it I'm like, I'm looking he made he made two pro bowls, all pro Oakland. Yes. Yes. Do still cut. Do. He was he was pointing so few. Yeah. I agree. It's he was three four. So they're sack numbers. I don't feel. If you are only going by that. And that's completely missing which they probably do. That's well, hopefully, yeah. Those guys are about to check out. Steve atwater didn't make I would had a man but Sally didn't make it was his third time. Bruce didn't air coryell didn't make it about you get in Alan panico, Steve in no, edges three, John. Lynch six I keep thinking he's already in. Yeah. Rodney Barbour should be into. Is he on the on about next year? He was on this year. He didn't make the finalists though. This is this is C. I could see more getting here. I'd be fine with it. I've listened put all the early to get Troy Brown in there. I have no problem with all of it now. Okay. And then like now does Ataman maybe. Yeah. Okay. If we're getting we're getting the whole gang in there. I got no beef with. Yeah. Listen, I'll never complain Hightower. Not a high down Devin mccourty. Johnny Robinson, who I don't know. Who that he got his fool? Oh shit. That's him. That's the getting he got seven legacy more getting on like six seven time. Yes. If they want to look at just like what he was able to do to another teams running game just by standing up, your left tackle and being like going anywhere pal the nation. Probably be in if they're not gonna look at it that way, and they're gonna hold this against him. I think it's gonna be really tough. Right now. See I Johnny Robinson probably should have been. Fifth Super Bowl champion. Wait a minute one Pro Bowl yacht. Bobo went on pro. One time interception Lee. Okay. We go six time AFL star seven seven all AFL's. Here. We go. Pro football fifty seven picks to deepen detested. Fifteen opens of touchdown pretty good. He retire retired in nineteen seventy one. And they were like, yeah. Okay. Maybe finally be. In congressional Johnny. Who's still alive? So good. Fucking good. Congrats to me and you on our civil did good resin pace, Tom. Yes. Recipe's porter. Yes. Recipe's bow. Yes. Car cares fund for Flint smash that donation button. Please. And thank you shut verse long for winning Walter Payton man of the year ward. We'll get next year. We will Chris long for your ask her as long you better. Do even more good than you did this year at listen if that guy's thing. Yeah. He won't do it cowardice. I'll put my finger. I'll get a ladder climate and put my finger to his nose and challenging bring Howie too. I wanna I wanna. Colin. The long family. They're three time men of the year. Never happen. Never ever. We will see you later this week.

Jimmy Butler Philly clippers Tobias harris Tobias Harris Tobias Knicks Elton Lakers Celtics Simmons basketball Marcus Morris Anthony Davis Sixers LeBron Milwaukee Atlanta Spotify GM hawks
MEGA Pod: Harris Trade, Bullock Trade, Wall Injury, Mock All-Star Draft

Dunc'd On Basketball Podcast

1:49:58 hr | 1 year ago

MEGA Pod: Harris Trade, Bullock Trade, Wall Injury, Mock All-Star Draft

"And we had just finished recording. As about to go downstairs and watch one television show with my wife before bed. But no at just after eleven thirty Pacific time block BUSTER trade. This is beyond anything that. I thought the Sixers would do we'd talked about the maybe trying to get some kind of rotation piece going forward, but to grab to bias Harris was well beyond what I thought they might consider Danny what are the full parameters of this absolute blockbuster the Philadelphia. Seventy Sixers are receiving Tobias Harris bulb on Mariana vich and Mike Scott and the Los Angeles Clippers are receiving Landry. Shamet Wilson Chandler, Mike Miskel, Philadelphia's own twenty twenty first rounder which is lottery protected for three years, then would become two seconds. If it has not yet conveyed Miami's twenty twenty one protected first and then Philadelphia's owned twenty twenty one and twenty twenty three second round picks while just. The value here is so interesting to talk about I want to actually start with that first before we talk about what these teams will look like on the floor. What it means for their future financial situations? Bogue on Mike, Scott. Those two guys were expiring contracts. I think Scott Lexi play for the Sixers off the bench unless they get somebody else. He he can fulfill somewhat the role that Moscow was playing probably do a better job of it. Certainly offensively bovin to get in the mix for some backups that are minutes against larger teams thing go with Bolden was small teams again, assuming they're done which I don't think they're going to be because they will certainly be active in the buyout market at the minimum. So basically, though what you're looking for here is Harris that Miami twenty twenty one unprotected is maybe the best pick that's out there. Maybe second best that Memphis picked that. The Celtics have going forward Phillies lotto protected first rounder, and then Shamet who I think has played well enough this year that you can kind of look at him as another first round pick. This is you know to dig it as to I run. Picks on the twenty s and then a first round that, you know, probably going to be at least in the lottery with by me. And then the two seconds as well, though. Those are again going to be likely a low by twenty twenty three who knows where all these guys are going to be but likely those are Pixar in the second half, the second round not that valuable for a guy. Who's on an expiring contract? He does of a small capital relative to what he's expected to get in free agency. But he is a free agent. He can leave. The Sixers are going to have to pay him a lot of money. Maybe not quite the Mex. But probably pretty close to it. You would imagine with all the cap room that is out there. What do you think of that Tobias Harris for that package? Given his free agent status coming up here just in a vacuum. I think it's a pretty significant overpay. I liked by parents. I think that he can be a useful part of team. I mean, he he's been an important part of what the clippers have done this year. But I did not have him as an all star. He was you know, he was in the loosely considered section of my Western Conference ensure Western Conference all stars was a tougher field. By far than the east. Paris is twenty six now he will turn twenty seven over this off season. And you know, it's great the last two years actually the longer than that. He's been a forty percent three point shooter. Now for I think this is would be his fourth season in third or four season row. If it continues, all we'll see we'll see if it does. Oh, no, never mind. That was because he played on teams last year was only only last year and this year that he's been over forty but he's a career thirty seven percent in points. You go I buy that. He can continue shooting forty percent. I do I do shoot. He does. And and Tobias Harris, I think that he can function reasonably well on and off the ball. I worry a little bit that there another kind of too many cooks type of situation where? Yeah. Yeah. You have another guy who can do more with the ball. But how often are those opportunities to present themselves, especially because it sounds like they're intending on starting Rettig. Butler Simmons Tobias Harris in Joel Embiid. That's a lot of guys who like the ball in their hands. And he is better off ball than a lot of the guys in that mix. I mean Simmons. Most notably. But I'd be that. There was something cool that they were doing in the cook in clipper land with him and Gallinari together. And you can't replicate that with all these other guys out there Harris being the fourth best defender on his team is going to be fascinating. Like just the amount of length. And switch ability Riddick notwithstanding that this team has now in their starting five is fascinating. And they have a little bit of time to integrate it this year. But yes, so we're talking about like is Tobias Harris worth that especially when you consider that for me. He is not one of those players who a mock max contract is a value there. Lebron is the most obvious example here they're not to me like he on a max contract, even the more optimistic people. I mean, if you base off of what he's done over his career. And yet, it's a great story. He's blossomed so much since Orlando traded him for basically, nothing that's guys still at a max contract is I think that's you know, maybe it's fair value. If you're an optimist. And for me, I think it would be a slight not big negative value. And then you talk about opportunity costs and all this other type of things. So that's a lot. And because he's an unrestricted free agent. He doesn't have deep ties to the to the area or anything like that in terms of his history with team. I don't think that he's from there or anything because he went to Tennessee. So I don't I don't think he has deep deep connections. I could be wrong on that. I just don't know them. So you're taking a huge risk. He has a ton of leverage here because he can just leave. And so if if he would rather take a three plus one with another team, you could just say, hey, give me give me the full boat or something close to it. And maybe you end up in into Roseanne landing or something. That's not quite there. But is still very lucrative. So I mean, this reminds me of I mean Elton brand is a very new GM. This reminds me a lot of the types of moves that the coach GM hybrids would make of like, hey, this makes us a lot better for right now. We'll deal with the consequences when they come the this is one of those things were better payoff in remember, Jimmy. Butlers, also regent. Now, there is some insurance here. If one of these guys leaves they still have the other one, and they could still have not quite MAC slot. But still plenty of when you go and get someone now, of course, JJ Radic would have to be brought back this if they do hold onto Butler and Harris that actually helps them because you wanted to stay over the cap and hopefully with Rettig your they can pay him they'll have early bird rights on him with that twelve billion. So they'd be able to pay Rettig as well up to one hundred seventy five percent of last year's salary. So that should be enough to keep him in the voles Yemeni years that takes but now he doesn't eat up their cap room. So you're kind of getting another slot here for a Major Guy by making this move. If you retain all through those guys Radic Harris and Butler, but you think about this in terms of just the assets required. You're either trading for Tobias Harris who's about to start a I don't know five year one hundred and fifty million dollar deal. His max would start at thirty two point seven for next year. So you'd be hopeful that you could get them. Thirty million euro per five years or maybe it's four years, and it's a hundred and forty seven million if it's only four years with the eight percent races. That's that's gonna be. I mean, the separate kings would offer a four years for Tobias Harris at the max in a heartbeat. You know, they're going to have a ton of room. So I mean, they're they're very likely going to have to come correct me. They can get a little bit of a discount on that five year the four year, but not much shoot. He's could be at least thirty billion dollar your player. You have to imagine. So trading for him on that contract. And you're giving up essentially three first round picks two of them. Not that great. But and also this is we don't know what other paths they are now foreclosing. And this is it now they just have their twenty nineteen pick. They now can't trade until the draft. Even if they wanted to and then your twenty twenty two and beyond picks can be traded most likely assuming they'll be in the playoffs for those lottery. Protect two picks to go or put to pit to go. And I'm not sure about this fit in Philly. Now, it is an excellent fit because he can really really shoot the ball. They are gonna be ext. Stream difficult to stop and then Brett Brown, and that filial it except they love to get guys out of the game early mix and match units. So presumably the they'll be some chances for Harissa to work with the bond his hands a little bit more probably will be reduced to mostly spot up role. When he's playing with the starters. You said he's the fourth best defender. I think that's very clear to be out think he's really a positive defensively, he's cut size. So maybe there's a hope that executive just get overpowered. If you have to switchable a bit of the prune read silk can have Joel Embiid behind him. Obviously, the Joel and beat posts ups are gonna get a lot easier with the main unit. This also, actually, I'm sure no Billy would say this by not even thinking it. But if you have Harrison Butler, it would make it easier to trade Simmons for some other guys would fit. Maybe that's the only other move that. They would have at this group of they bring everyone back in it doesn't work. There is one other one who wants to. Yeah. And that is if Jimmy Butler left for whatever reason if JJ read you'd have to clear Rex capital as well. They would have. Just around enough money for a seven to nine max contract. Yeah. So because device Harris's cancelled as lower than that number, theoretically. But I don't know who the hell that guy would be. I mean, you if you're losing Jimmy Butler. I don't think like Kawhi Leonard is sitting there going. Oh my God. I wanna I wanna go there. Maybe you could do something with like, let's say Kemba or something like that you could get somebody in the mix there. So you have a little bit of a little bit of risk mitigation there. But you're adding a lot of it, and I wouldn't be surprised at all. And then preliminary stuff we were recording this pretty soon after the trade happen that a lot of people who do not think about things the way that we do. And I'm not saying that we're brilliant or anything like that will talk about how this trait is such a big win for the Philadelphia. Seventy Sixers because hey, it's vice Harris's really good basketball player. You got him. They gave up so much to give him the leverage for that contract. And I don't hey, I don't think he's worth it. And be why is it? Why is he the answer to all all the stuff that held them? And why are they going to now bench? Simmons and Joel Embiid or both in their you know, their mid twenties. They don't have to be like this year. You know, it's by terrorists. You know us getting close to his prime. He's not going to age as well. As other guys, not not a great fit. And if you're going to throw all of your stuff into the into the mix couldn't they have done this for somebody else. Yeah. That's a good who or maybe get a guy who is eighty five percent of Tobias Harris and keep a lot of these assets to try to improve otherwise, I think. Yeah. You mentioned how young those guys are that's true. But you know, once they made the move for Butler, and because there's so much work that they needed to do in the rotation. I did advocate the making a move and potentially a big this is even bigger than I necessarily expected them in terms of what they've thrown in here. But again, I would like someone who knows maybe better on defense Tobias Harris and maybe a little bit worse on offense, but can still shoot. Now with that have been say Harrison Barnes from Dallas. If he would have opted in for. Another year. Would he think Barton's is probably a little better? I think defensively than heiresses certainly guarding larger players, you might say Harris, obviously is a much better shooter. But you I do think this the pick and roll ability that Harrison shown he thought agree passer. But not a great guy gave you the Rimmer getting followed either. But he he's a little bit to larger caliber for what they need in terms of offense. And I could've used a little bit more of a three in d archetype ties a guy who have come a little bit cheaper. Now, who is that not really sure we've talked about some of the guys that they could trade for. And we thought maybe what they might do is try to use some of those assets to get a guy who could play now, but it's still on a rookie contract or somebody's cheating, Tori, and prince probably maybe not good enough for them. But also if they wanted to go this route are they that much better with Tobias Harris as opposed to a healthy, Nicole Amir Tich this year mere probably about the same as Harissa as a spot up shooter, Harris Aloom more versatile defensively can do more off the dribble. So we'll see and I still think. Have a little bit more work to do at the back on the rotation gave bo-bottle will help a little bit. But he's probably not going to play in the playoffs. So I think they still need a little bit of help it backup center in they could use one more defensive guard on the perimeter. I would try and move McConnell to just to try to get someone who fits a little bit better with Simmons. Of course as well. But but canal's ruled can probably be minimized. That's another thing may be complaint him Las because you've got that ball handling from Harris. Yeah, you're going to or unisex I might have missed it. But I don't think you they can't acquire him. But Robert Covington would be a better fit for what? The Sixers team needs little. Yeah. I mean, they can't incidentally, Dario church would I charge? This is a different kind of question. He's not the archetype Covington is, but he is another guy that would be useful for this team. And it's so weird to see them throw their assets into two deals like this. And I mean, you could construct this at a lot of different ways where they would have ended up with the Sixers team that I would be happier with personally than the team that they have now which is bizarre, but I wanna pivot to the clippers and one thing that this isn't the most important thing for them. But I wanna. This is so that the podcast is completed. Inaccurate. The picks the second round picks that are going to fill it out to to the clippers in. This are not Philadelphia's own second round picks. They are Detroit's which are better to me than Philadelphia's picks like those are more desirable. So unprotected and all that kind of stuff. Those are picked that that Philly dot in. Thomas Thomas, the tire Thomas trade, which we talk about you know, what will be a later part of this podcast. So that that's another another piece of this. That is important mention. And so that's a good transition unless you have more that you want to say on the Sixers. Well, let's talk a little bit. I mean, if the Sixers make the NBA finals this year, and they recite these guys maybe this all becomes worth it, maybe. And also if they resign these guys, and then you take Ben Simmons up to a max in the summer of twenty twenty you know, that's going to be a very high payroll. That's going to be a tax team four sherve. And you're gonna have a think about that. That's four guys probably making over thirty million, Ben Simmons. Yeah. I mean by that point even the twenty five percent max will be close to thirty million. He could even be end up being dozen native player as well. If you makes it all and be a team, so that's community negotiation. So you're talking about hundred over one hundred twenty million for four guys and that will only go up at eight percent per year. Basically in dad is just a massive massive number. So damn will better be a championship contender of your. They. It will be again, though. I just go back to with how much money they're spending, and what it took together them. I still think there's just a better fit out there to me than Tobias are especially you know, because he's having a career. And I think he's he's just he's a little overqualified what they need offense of Lee and underqualified for what they need defensively to me at this point. And what other I just want to reiterate this point? I am very concerned that the whole will be less than some of their parts because they have all the and that was true with the Simmons Butler Embiid situation, and while Tobias Harris makes elements of that easier. He also will not be able to use his full complement talented guy. Like McConnell can be an maybe he'll just want to leave because of that too. You know, what I mean, what what if things don't go well here, and he's just like, you know, what like you just heavy Santa Cornell Brown system does involve a lot of moving the ball. And but maybe now Jimmy Butler is gonna feel it. I mean, he Butler and beat already already felt like they weren't getting enough touches. And so this is probably gonna exasperate that so much what they do is JJ ready. Running off screens a as well. So as that I mean, that's some of their most effective action. Is that gonna be now reduced a little bit as well? Maybe it has to be and he just has to spot up. Yeah. Something I'm thinking about is. I think Feldman with this up a little while ago of guys that had the highest combined usage rates the prior year and then became teammates because Tobias Harris Twenty-three five usage rate last year, adding him into all this mix largely replacing guys like Wilson Chandler who who haven't had it as much like this is a team of guys that are very used to being a big part of their offense. And we'll see what else Philly can come up with them. And they don't have enough much more ammo to make trimming that they've still got second round. They had a million coming in here. But I thought because of the expense as well, it kind of made more sense to go after maybe not Taurean prince himself, but someone along those lines, and I mean, if you're willing to make this kind of an offer would you rather have someone who's on a rookie contract who's good? And again, you know of thought my head here just letting the sink it now who that might have been other than prince. I'm not entirely sure. But. To have them be still an asset on his contracts as opposed to donors going to be pretty darn expensive going forward here in Harris. Maybe that would have been better. But we'll see maybe the same. Just looks awesome. I in agreement with you. I'm not like, oh, man. These guys the papers in east right now. But by any stretch because they got this got me. I think they're going to be nasty on offense. They still need a couple more pieces. What's so funny about this is they're still high ceiling relatively low for for how for how good their talent level is like that that doesn't function? It changes a little bit with this. But it doesn't affect that part of it relative to the other teams in the he's like they're going to be moments when this team looks like world leaders, but can they do it for a whole playoffs? And remember how little overall experience? This team has Tobias Harris does not give them a whole lot of playoff experience considering he has played a total of four playoff games in his NBA career. Let's turn to the clippers out of this. Now. So good. It's so good. I this is everything that we've been bitching about with your Charlotte's and your Detroit's and your Washington. Oh, we gotta chase the eighth seed note, these guys actually have some fucking ambition. And I love it like it is Tobias Harris on this mex- contract going forward. Even if you got quiet Leonard that wasn't going to be a positive asset gay. He had the cap old twenty two million. But still you're gonna have to give him a massive massive deal. He's out there. I don't think he's that good. And at the absolute highest level of this. He's being brought in for Philly to be their fourth piece. You can't pay your fourth piece thirty million dollars a season on a long-term delight that just doesn't work in a Harris's kind of a third piece may be on a really good team. But not that versatile defensively and the clippers got bigger game to go after. And now they've got some ammo with that twenty twenty one Miami pick. They've got Shamet they've got this other Philly pick. They've got shaved. Maybe if they wanna use him as well. Now, you're starting to get into the conversation a little bit. They still got Gallo for some gnashing salary that maybe they could get into the. AD sweepstakes. Maybe they could get into the sweepstakes for the next star that becomes available, and they still didn't hurt their cap space at all you can argue even helped it because they felt like they're gonna get guys who are gonna be better than Tobias Harris with that cap room. And so his small capital wasn't really worth it as much for them this summer, and this is just as we said in the open before he started talking about at team specifically, it's just a great asset play. And where were you really going this year? Seventh seed eighth seed at best prime more likely than not now that LeBron is back to not make the playoffs us as for his look pretty good, certainly the clip scale out worst this year. But they're not like oh bid. You'll we are fans will be so upset if we don't chase the this. They just have ambition. And I think this is they're also much more likely now to keep their own pick this year rather than convenient to Boston. And I want to give a lot of credit twos that glow and Kevin arnovitz who talked about the possibility that Harris could be traded the possibility that some in the organization might quietly whisper that they don't care about making the playoff. Offs. And apparently the only good of making the playoffs. This year for the seam was impressing, some free agent making it look like they're good. But then up to those guys were leaving anyway in free agency this year. So ultimately, they realize and hope that it doesn't matter the optics of having gotten killed in the first round versus winning thirty eight games and not making the playoffs. So they made this deal, and they just look so much better. Both for traits Antic even for this off season as well going forward. I just love everything about this for the clippers. I think it's totally visionary. And really impressed with it. It might be unfair of me. But my first thought when I saw this trade from the clippers perspective was Jerry West is in their room. And that's a very good day for them. Because I couldn't imagine him being a voice saying why don't we wanna get knocked out in the first round. Like that exactly that expectation and Tobias Harris. You know, he's a good player is he a great player is the cornerstone for a team that has lofty aspirations the clippers can also make the sales pitch to free agents of you can play like we. Can put multiple guys together, you know, similar to what the Knicks are Knicks are doing now, and you can do it in LA. There's certain players were that sales pitch might work better, including one coil honored. So they put themselves in a good spot. And I think Tobias Harris as you said he didn't he doesn't move the needle enough for teams team with high aspirations into team that might you know, it might take a year or two for them to put this whole thing together. Even though the twenty twenty free gym class isn't strong. That's something I wrote about for the athletic. But, you know, maybe they're they're different ways. They can do this as you said they could acquire somebody by trade Anthony Davis being the one I don't love their assets for Anthony Davis trade just because I don't think they have that real centerpiece type guy, and it certainly seems like that something New Orleans values, and it's something they should value. And they have a lot of these shake. Maybe it is for me over them. Maybe this. Yeah. I I agree. They wanted them with all NBA potential. Maybe a few squid hard that she I don't believe that's in. But there are many who are much higher on him. Yes. So they can they can get into the conversation. I think they're lower in it. But they could. But they can be in the mix for somebody else. And if she gets a lot better than than you can talk for the next guy, whoever that's going to be and the opportunity cost is what I want to focus on here in the you brought it up, but I want to I want to nail this home the clippers lost so little in. This trade. Tobias was useful player Bo bond. They couldn't really ever figure out how to use him. Mike, Scott, useful piece. But not that important. Maybe it knocks them from a potential seven seed and getting knocked out in the first round. You know, maybe there is a chance of an upset or something like that to likely keeping their own pick keeping their financial house in order and getting a ton of assets for very little trouble Phillies. Pick could be useful. You know, it's probably going to be a late first Miami. We don't know what that's going to be. But they're clearing the books for twenty twenty. But there isn't really anybody were doing it for especially if eighty never really hits the market. I can't really imagine him going to Miami without any other commensurate pieces. So that's big challenge. And then they got Shimin sham. It's a nice piece for where they might be going. I mean, I don't think that a starting guard. Nation of Shamet and gilders Alexander is necessarily going to take a long way. But those two guys can be a part of a rotation, and you can add guys on top of around that and all those sorts of things. So I love love love this trade for the clippers. It's it's smart. It's proactive, and they just like we talked about with the Sixers like there there is a chance that this blows up in their face. But they didn't give up a lot to make it happen. I'm so fine. You know, if that if that's what happens you get you get a couple Trump picks out of it to buy. You're not going to be ruing the day that you gave up Tobias Harris, I baby there's a fringe chance. He gets like thirteen MBA at some point. But and maybe he has more success in Philadelphia than he would have with the clippers. But he is not like this. It's not like trading James harden, right before he blew up or something like that. This is a very different thing. And you've got assets like you gave up somebody that good. Yeah. And you're soon as to by her side, if it's a five year deal reciting with the clippers which again was not at all of you, even look that is likely that he would resigned, but the. Him enough that he would've wanted to resign. Then you're looking at his contract, you know, he's healthier than these guys. But kind of along the lines of like Kevin love or a Blaker Amanda Griffin and love or both better than Harris Harris might get a little bit less than money than those probably not less than love me less than Griffin did and he's a little bit younger than those guys when they sign those contracts, but he's not as good at player a visa either of those guys at least hasn't been his career may be better than love at this point. We'll see where where love is at. But sued be talking about him. Is this bad? You know, tough trader difficult to trade contract and is dead. That got just all these ads us for him. They got more for him than they got in the Blake Griffin trade at the time of the ended up getting Harris who blew up at. But you think in terms of what people thought of Harris at the time and thought, you know, there's just one lottery pick and Harris was essentially the trail Avery, Bradley two. But he was going to be a free agent was playing wall time sales got more for Harris than they did for Griffin it. So I I mean, that's a great asset play too. I trade Blake. And then turn around what you got. For Blake and trade him for this. It was really good. And now the question becomes how far they willing to go on this would they be willing to move on from Lou Williams to get even more picks. Lou, certainly you would think could get a first round firm. He's eight million this year eight million next year, then non-guaranteed all but one point five million of it guaranteed for twenty twenty one. And then Gallo is another one too with they might wanna strike while the iron is hot on him. You would team like the jazz who will perpetually looking for a stretch option at the fort be willing to give something up give up a first rounder to get him at twenty one million this year twenty two next year. And then they really have stripped it down. Then they've got the double max space just the same as the Knicks to and they've got a ton assets going forward, just like the Knicks to as well, but they've got more young players in the hopper than the Knicks to and they're in L A, and they're not run by a crazy person. Very very interesting here going for the one downside here is that, you know, Jerome Robinson Landry Shamet are very very. Similar players. So it'd be interesting to see who's able to come forward here as more playing time opens up in. I think having to bites at the apple there is a good thing. Young guys. All right. E one of them probably is going to wash out that's often what happens with you know, guys that have more of one tool than a lot of other things and something else I want to bring up not only as a mechanism for plugging the piece I wrote for the athletic about the Celtics into any inches pragmatism. Which is is there, and I basically it was about the human element. And how entity Davis is perceiving with the Celtics are doing I think that they're not a huge loser in this. But they are one for for the reason that it makes another Eastern Conference team stronger, and it makes it less likely that the clippers pick is valuable, and that's it. Now, if you're training that let's say Anthony Davis deal. It's not if you're because presumably those negotiations will happen before the draft, even though it can't be consummated, they'll July now you have to sell that as a future thing of. Hey, let's see how the clippers are. It's I think it's a less tangible less valuable asset for them, especially if the clippers end up doing well this. Season, which they won't know then in and we won't know for while. So the rest of the east is probably a little shaky now they're going to want to see where it works out. But because Boston has this Ansari connection with with the deal do the clippers. I think it matters a little more for them one of the greatest commodities. I think we can close on. This is just actually having a realist who people listen to in the front office. The hawks found one in Travis slang who aside from a couple of missteps they look like they're on a preview path. Yeah. They traded away dodger to knows all good. That's going to be but they rebuilt. They didn't try to continue to chase after the ghosts of Paul Millsap. And Al Horford left the year before what might knows noser wanted them to do as the coach president Sam hinkie was a realist in Philadelphia. And he is now gotten the seeds that he planned his gotten them back into contention Jerry West and this clippers front office a real about Blake Griffin. They didn't cave in to sentiment. They retirement they did with the needed to do for the organization, then they made this trade as what think that setting them. Up. Extremely well. Danny age a realist that Kevin Garnett. Paul Pierce weren't going to get it done as far as championship contention anymore. Probably we're gonna leave in free agency anyway in the future. So he moved on to Brooklyn and got an amazing all and jump started their rebuilt when you're actually willing to be realistic about where you are as a franchise as opposed to how we can't do that in our bark it or it's so difficult to rebuild here. And you're actually honest with yourself about where you're going and that this is a league that's about winning at the highest levels, and that piddling around in the eighth seed in the Eastern Conference is useless. And that's just a recipe for not mattering in this league. And that when you chase after the a lot of times, you don't even get there, and then the will rebuild that you have to do just gets postponed for a few years and becomes even more unpalatable than if you'd actually steered into the skit by making the Muzy needed to. It's just such an advantage to have ownership who's willing to sign off on that and executives who. Who aren't worried about their jobs and are willing to be proactive about where the team actually is. I want to add in one more team because they're relevant to this conversation. And it's maybe even a a more prime example. And that's the Toronto Raptors big they had the best season in franchise history last year messiah, Jerry realized that there was an opportunity that there was a team that was over valuing what they had that sentimentality was going to lead to some people being very unhappy with the deal last year was the best year in raptors history. This is the best team in retrospect, I don't care if they end up with a better record, not maybe they end up not winning the east, whatever. However that goes the decision that messiah jury made was a very tough one to make and it was very important. And you can I don't even think we need to go through the laundry list. A lot of them will be in the rest of this podcast that people can hear some of the things we've criticized that impatience or few worries about job security or a bad owner have led them down a path where it's really hard to make some improvements. And I I wish I written more about this. And I wrote a lot about it at the time was. That the major markets had a gigantic advantage in the last CBA that they completely frittered away by almost all of them being terribly run franchises and now partially because they were so bad than that. They were able to get the right people in in power. Those teams are now much greater forces. I mean, the Lakers got LeBron James there at live. I have misgivings with what they've done, but they they're under capable stewardship clippers. They're they're the Knicks. I mean, I'm not sure yet. But I mean, it's it's better than it was under Phil Jackson at least, and then the Netzer Marx's another success story, especially compared to its predecessor. And this is not as favorable to those teams because now extensions are more possible. But the league should be a little bit scared of this. Because if those teams are will run the MBA is is structured in a way to benefit those teams. Because of the way contracts are in the way free agency works does what we needed was long soliloquy for both of us here to add to this. We're recording all this reverse order got a whole other. Segment coming up here on the book trade news. And then we're going to do a mock all-star draft as well so much more to get to end you'll hear what was going to be our intro coming up in just a second. Aren't the trade deadline is heating up? We got some big rumors to address we have a trade to doubts as well. And then we gotta talk about the all-star draft which is going to happen on Thursday nights. We wanted to get on top of that this year Nate I Danny in the all-star draft see who can pick the better team. But why don't we just rolled through here with some news, and we can fold a some the injury stuff in with the trades and trade rumors. Let's start though with the trade that actually in fact did happen tonight. There was one that was rumored that did not happen. We'll talk about that later, but the one that was actually consummated reportedly tonight is with the Lakers and the pistons the Lakers are trading feed mechanic, and they're twenty twenty one second round pick. They had previously traded their twenty nineteen to the Detroit Pistons for guard. Reggie bullock. And this. I was a shocking trade for me for a very basic reason. And that is block is the best has been the best wing for the pistons this year, the pistons are either leave technically game and a half out of the playoff picture five thirty. It's projections actually have them as the seven seat and whilst V could end up being a better player. You know, he's under contract more team control all that kind of stuff. You don't usually see a team where the pistons are make this kind of trait where the pistons are is going to be thirty eight and forty four team. I I actually think this portends a bit of sanity. Although it's not like the business have really much else to sell at the moment. In terms of expiring county Stanley Johnson falls into that category. But the key has much if any value. So I do agree is pretty shocked that Baloch was moved. Because of the fact that that you I mean, maybe this is just the front office saying we're just gonna give Luke Kennard the shot at playing more on the wing. We're going to give Stanley Johnson shot at playing more the wingnut that he hasn't received plenty of. Chances in his career to be sure. But I'm also actually a little surprised at the price here. So what is the the pickers twenty twenty one for the Lakers as right, correct? So it was originally reported that it was a second. We knew it wasn't twenty nineteen because that pick already owed. So there was this little conversation. Dan Feldman mentioned this on Twitter of you know, what you're would you want the Lakers pick? And when I was going through it. I mean 'cause 'cause you also like one easy thing would be as far out because LeBron James, you know, he's thirty three right now. And so you'd rather go as far out as you can and for budwood thirty. Oh, that's right. Yeah. He's thirty four. I know what you're and there's the other reality that you also want, you know, if your GM you wanted to convey, a little sooner if he can. So when I was thinking about this. I thought twenty twenty one was the last year that I would want because LeBron will still be under contract will still, you know, he's not going to be peak of his powers, obviously. But it'll still be better. And even if this off season ends up being awash for the Lakers. They'll get somebody by then. But it's not like other than twenty nineteen. This year when they're on the fringes of playoff contention any year's going to be great in that future. I just would have gone further out that it sounds like the pistons did. Yeah. Well, and also the double draft would have been an interesting one which is looking like to me twenty twenty two second rounders could be more valuable than but who knows where the Lakers will be at that point. I mean, if I the handicap about were they'll be say, maybe low twenties as a guest me could be a lot lower than that. They don't get AD and LeBron just isn't any good anymore, or maybe leaves isn't any good relatives where he is. Now, of course, or they could just, you know, be in the midst of a really nice run. So I'd say the average would be low twenties, but it's probably more likely to be either, you know, fifteen or like high twenty s and then FEMA kailua as looked better than his draft slot in the late forties would have been dedicated so far peasants apparently like him. He is a very similar player to Luke Kennard may be a better spot up shooter at this point in time. But Canard a better playmaker. Who's better on defense? Probably neither of them. Frankly, a neither of them have a tongue athleticism, maybe as speak, but it gives the pistons and other shot at someone who can shoot the ball little bit. Something else that Kevin pelton brought up in his piece was that the pistons had two opportunities in the early second round to draft Zvi. They did they took kyri Thomas. They took Bruce Brown. I believe they gave up multiple seconds for one of those two gentlemen. And so they is Kirk Kurt Thomas, Harry Thomas, so they made a choice, and you granted they can revise that. And say, hey, look good in preseason summer league as as a member of the south bay Lakers. You know, there are lots of different data points, and any you know, he played some for the LA Lakers did have like a forty seven point game this year in the league true. Yeah. And v is under team control for a lot longer. So next year, he's fully non-guaranteed. And then the year after is a team option that is also non-guaranteed which is something that I really like when teams have that structure. And the reason you want a team option and non non-guaranteed for that third year is because then theoretically, this is an. Nicole Yokich type of thing you could theoretically decline that team option and make him a restricted free agent. Should there be tactical reason to do? So generally speaking, there isn't for you know, it would be they would be Rina's limited. Maybe there would be something. They're probably not. But anyway, lot more team control restricted free agency, the individual be good enough to make it all the way to the end. And Bullock he is unrestricted after this year. So that is a negative. But the fortunate thing for LA if this goes, well, he is I believe he has full bird rights and has a Lou capital. So there are scenarios where the Lakers could bring him back if this year goes well, and that's a nice thing for them. I mean, the optionality of you can let him go with no consequence. But it might be feasible to bring him back is useful. And Bullock seems to fit a lot better on a Lakers team that is moving on from some of those guys that they have already whether that Casey p Josh heart arguably, he's the third best guy out of that group. Religious depends who's gonna hit their threes a little bit better. I'd say he's probably the worst defender, and maybe the best shoot. Her out of that group. But again, you know, those three point percentages can be very -able for all three of those guys. But yeah, I like the low capital the four point seven five million, although the Lakers as of now with no additional changes have thirty seven million in cap space coming up debts without his capital. So if they could move on from some from salary like ball Ingram, you know, they can open up that full MAC spot and probably have enough to keep blocks cap hold as well. And I would expect in free agency that you get more than that. But I have to say this is maybe a little bit smaller of a price than I would have thought for someone like him. I guess he's an expiring contract with the low capital makes them a little bit more appealing. There. Does this seem about right to you to second rounders one of one of whose just drafted the other one probably gonna be, you know, later on the both of these picks are past forty fives fee was late or later on in the second area. Jim Agean, the Lakers will at least be a playoff team, you'd think by the the point this pick conveys, so maybe less. Yeah. It seems a little light to me. Because I but V, you know, maybe they see something more him than we've had the opportunity to experience a guy that you in particular because you got see them more than I did before college like that he really did chosen flashes. Then of course, that is a long time ago now at this point one of the other elements of this trade for Detroit that I don't know if it's going to matter we're just going to have to see is that it does clear more wiggle room under the luxury tax. They now have about one point five million. Now, they could sign somebody. You know, they they could use that spot. They could also clear Henry own soon. You know, there are a few a few other things they could do. But whether they actually do anything like that or not is is an open question. So the comparable trade is one that happened a couple of days ago. Rodney hood to second rounders from the blazers pretty similar value. You'd have to say to what this was block. I view block as the superior player. Less of an injury history of though, they both have pretty expensive ones. And you know, just a more versatile player better defender, probably a better three point shooter than. Could you know, just not the score? The ball is ends at hood is. But who has never been officiant in that regard. And is a big problem on defense. I I like Bullock better than hood. And then black also comes with the bird rights that Rodney hood does not because he was on that qualifying offering waive his bird rights when he agreed to the trade. Are we got much more to get to here? Who talk about the fit of Rodney hood in Portland ads only. Okay. Reggie bullock. Hey, you know, there's some other guys who do the same thing. 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Most prominent Markelle Seoul was shut down for tonight's win over the timber wolves at home the number thirty three Dame plate above his locker had been removed. There is a half. Trash bag with his belongings in them prior to the game. He actually left the arena at halftime discussions were that he would be on the move to Charlotte as he was in the mock trade deadline, but that deal as of this recording at ten thirty three Pacific time has not yet been consummated. You'll recall, of course, to in the mock off season, the construction was Justin holiday in a separate trade into the trade exception and Genucel for Charlotte's top four protected first rounder this year and the ugly salaries of Bizac beyond bow and Michael Kidd Gilchrist for next year. So the first rounder just forget soul wasn't available. They also take on bed salary for next year. If there is going to be the seal, the only significant expiring contract that Charlotte has is the seven million of Germany lamb. They need him for this spectacular playoff Bush that apparently is going to result from getting Marcus oil. And that means that really for this deal to work, even salary wise. They've got a son back a non expire. Hiring contract. And you know, that's probably gonna be bed salary. That's what you know. This is gonna be could a pick. That's got some upside in theory top four protected Charlotte could miss the playoffs and missing the playoffs in the east. You know, that could be the number nine pick or something like that. So that's a thought it'd be a pretty good deal for this. And and I think a fair one. That's why we agree to it in the metro deadline, and then of course, gazelles future Jimmy can imagine. He's too jazzed about Charlotte, necessarily, but you may not have anyone else out. There is win offering twenty five million for next year. So I think you know, it's probably a fifty fifty proposition here. Andy would be limited in his extension options. But he could extend for up to two years after this one. That's they might look into if they want to bring back Kemba Walker, but they still have some luxury tax concerns will be counting on him being out. If they do bring back Kumba, so lots of moving parts are will see if the steel actually happens, and what the parameters are ending at on this one. It was also strange to me in the mock deadline, just the fit. On basketball court was Charlotte. A team that plays that has played traditional centers. They they went into directions. When Cody Zeller is out, but they still were largely playing Piombo an Gomez. So that part of it makes sense, but Charlotte not having functionally any expiring salary makes this a harder thing. Now, I am a believer that Memphis should be willing to take on money for next year, especially if you get better asset back it's not like they're going to be doing much over the summer of twenty nine hundred anyway, so I would support that. I just wasn't sure if Robert Pera and their front office, we're going to go nut direction. And we'll see what happens it, it certainly does appear from the multiple tea leaves that are out there that Marcus soul will be on the move. But it's possible. It's it's not to them. You never like when the early reporting was out on Tuesday. My first thought was this is Memphis saying, we're definitely moving this guy. Get your offers in because we need them now. And that might still be where this is I I don't really know that we can or should read more into it. But either way I mean, that's a significant move. And I like that you talk. About this decision on his player option though. I could also see Marcus oil being someone given the career that he's had who was made plenty of money who could say I'll take less money to be somewhere that can use me or that. I'm happier that can compete whatever. Whatever his definition of what he wants in his next place. I could see him leaving money on the table, and in that sort of a circumstance than Charlotte does not get the benefit of Marcus next year. No likelihood, but they do theoretically under the structures that we've discussed they get out of a lot of money for next year. So whether Kemba stays or goes mixed books a lot cleaner. Are there's more trade stuff to get to. But we have to get to the really said news out of Washington. John wall will undergo surgery to compare a now to repair a now ruptured left achilles tendon, and he develop in an infection from the initial surgery that he had which was a repair of this deformity in his left heel that was causing tilles contended soreness. Andy slipped and fell in his home. The rupture was found during a procedure to clean out the infection. And so he's going to miss twelve month. I mean, that's basically all next year. He's gonna be out. I mean, this is a torn achilles tendon, and that's disastrous for someone with his type of physical profile and who's as relying on speed as he is. I also would like to push back on those who like thought that first reactor. This was oh, he didn't really fall in his home. Like, there's some other story here. Number one. I don't know what it is about John wall. That really makes him get a lot of this negative attention and even going back to like that ridiculous England coun- coward early in his career was like feud as a bad guy because he was dancing before games. Which is just preposterous said, yeah, you know, what maybe likes to go out. Maybe he's kind of volatile and a little bit impressed with his own abilities. Although not so impressed that he didn't sign. The supermax. Michael Lee reminded us that wall told him when he was asked why didn't wait to sign the supermax a year for now when he could. Fifty million. He told Mike Lee, I only made all this year. It's not guaranteed. You never know. What can happen? I didn't want to chance it. So obviously made a great business decision to take that supermax does even kick in until next year at thirty eight million. But for those whose first reaction was os hunting untoward happened. And this is a bullshit story about him falling like you ever had a severe surgery on your lower body. Like you're wearing a boot when you're out and running for cats reported that he was wearing a boot. And he was on one of those scooters that you Nealon to get around the arena yesterday. It seemed to be indecent spirits, and then he also had this infection. So it's not like he's able to just like, you know, go bowling like, Andrew number. He was like out in the club like, dancing or something. Like that. Like when you're most vulnerable needs situations is when you're at home, you have to take off all this equipment, you're brace or you're Buddha. Whatever to get in the shower, and you've only got one leg at that point. You're not used to moving around that way. It's actually very possible to fall and injure south kind of thing happens all the time and for those who are Scott. Physical will what do you? What else? Do you think happens? Besides that like the guy came in walk to just was really odd to me that so many people had that reaction that made me uncomfortable as well. Especially considering there isn't really a good reason for you know, if if somebody has Intel then you could talk about that, then it's not fair to rain it even walk. What do you think he was doing like art if something came out, and there was some kind of a report? Okay. But I mean, this isn't like Monty LS riding the the moped. And especially like, what do you think he was doing going to void is contract as well? There's exhibit five that lists. Prohibited activities, which are generally sort of like extreme sports type stuff, you know, skiing and snowboarding, and you know, playing tackle football and stuff like that. Like those things that are usually ruled out like just walking around or something after a surgery, it's not it's not gonna afford your contract. If you fall in your them sorry. But so I want to pivot a little bit to how this affects the wizards moving forward the time line that's out there now is is twelve. Five months that was what shamans had those the first thing. I saw but I've heard eleven to fifteen and that means functionally we should assume that John wall will not play for the wizards next year. Maybe in a limited format he could play at the very end of the year kind of. I mean, it's not the same injury. But like what Paul George did at the year after he had he broke his leg for team USA where he was back for another couple of games. But it wasn't you know, he he wasn't back. He just played for a few of them. And while as you said he is about to begin the gigantic four year extension that the supermax and Washington, they also can't get a believe they cannot get a disabled player exception for him. Even if you who he would have to have been ruled as out until the following June fifteenth, right? Oh, yeah. That's right. That's the line. So yeah. As of right now, at least that that doesn't seem likely maybe he can get reassessed at some point. They can get that. But remember that doesn't give you latitude rug relatives Electra taxes just another way that you can add salary, and they would only get the D equivalent of the mid level. You. Don't get half of half of the player salary for the whole thing. I mean, it's not that big exception. But it could theoretically be useful the wizards now depending on what mentality, and this is why the teddy Leonsis comments about Lido tank are actually very instructive because in other, you know, if you had different approaches, you could see that that being the impetus for maybe moving out a porter saying, hey, we're not going to be competitive next year. Maybe a little bit were zealous about doing something with Yhombi behemoth to get out of the tax. But with that I mean now you have to start thinking about well, they're going to be competitive. They're going to need Thomas outta Ranchi and Saturday ski pending restricted free agent. He has a modest capital, but he is also still for the rest of this year extension eligible. Yup. And he could get up to the four year forty seven million dollars potentially that could keep him out of free agency at I think, though, if I were the wizards unless you just wanted to cut me a great deal. I would just hold on and play the restricted free agent game with into me, you know, Leonsis said before this news. Down that they are not trading. Any of these players, namely, wall Beal or porter and the I mean the wizards still kinda in the playoff race this year. They're going to get completely steamrollered in the first round if they do make it and the next year. I mean, you really going in your drawing dead for next year as well. They may be again, you might at the upside of barely getting the, but they're already projecting to be attacked seem for next year without even having a full roster when you consider their draft pick and potential Sarangi salary. I think toy our might opt into the five point six million, and they still to fill up throughout the rostrum in Trevor Aretha market. Moore's those guys are free agents. I in really it seems so obvious to me at this point that they should be tearing down that they should try to tank this year. Get a good draft pick next year probably tank again, you're not really that. Good. Maybe even think about trading, Bradley Beal at this point because his value for next year is pretty limited. When you're you're you're not gonna have really I think of successful season. No matter what you do next year. He is already told people that he wants out of Washington when his contract ends. So then you're basically looking at one year of him like he's gonna be asking how he's going to be the subject of trade speculation all next year because they're not going to be good next year. Now just impossible to do that with forty million dead money on your cap and a lot of contributors that surpri knock meal to afford to resign. And they're I mean will allow millions. Why the hell are they keeping Trevor REEs right areso Markeith Morris? Like, I didn't even set her into you might think about potentially moving if you can go Tim so little different just. Senator inskeep. Restricted so I think you can you can trust that and Thomas Bryant same thing. You know, those guys maybe you bet on that process. A little bit more, but Reza Markeith Morris. Like, what are you waiting for? Yeah. They open up a little more room next year by stretching out Mimi, you think though probably happened. But again with next year being lost year. Really probably makes more sense. Just eat that old next year instead of stretching him and putting five million on your cap the two years after that one. Again, you're going to be up against it in terms of the tax. They're just have to accept reality this year. Yeah. Guess you might make the playoffs, but you also have enough flexibility in this Eastern Conference to get a pretty good draft. You could get another pretty good draft pick. Again. I mean, I think this era is just over. Now. It is like there's this era of, you know, being a dangerous succeed or a fourth seed or something like that, you know, at times with this group like John wall. Zach be the same player, you're not even gonna get him back until the twenty twenty twenty one season they're done. They just have to accept that. I mean, if they weren't done now, you could at least sort of make the big, okay? Hey, we. Add the right piece around John comes back. He's going be better next year, and we can get back to those dizzying heights of 2017 potentially with this group. Not it's not gonna happen anymore. I was encouraged after the first surgery the theory of the Haglund's deformity, and that maybe it was causing some of the problems that were making John wall. Just not look like himself, consistently physically. And I was I was hopeful that maybe we would see at least a higher proportion of the time you'd see that. There are some positive achilles rupture stories that are going on Rudy gay. I think he's looking more like himself than I ever expected. Now, I believe it's two years out from the injury. That's fantastic. Demarcus cousins is making recovery is not only back, but he's looking better. I mean, obviously, those he and John wall have a close connection due to their time at Kentucky. John wall relies on his athleticism substantially more than you. And I were concerned about how his game would age. Yes, he's a talented passer. But with his lack of a jump shot athleticism has always been important part in creating the separation that is necessary to get the. Mention to make those passes. And that means that an achilles rupture means more to his game than it does to the other two and that is deeply concerning. So not only for me am I concerned about. Oh, yeah. John wells, basically not plate next year. But it's will we even see the John wall. We saw this year again. And I am not remotely sure of that. And it's really a shame that I think John wall now is probably gonna be more famous than NBA history for just two cautionary tale about the designated player extension. One of the worst contracts in NBA history that ios looking that way before even kicked in. But you really was robbed of his private. I mean really his last year where he was himself was maybe twenty seventeen use a twenty five year old. I think at that point is really after twenty five we're look back. He was pretty much done potentially. You know, maybe you'll make some miracle comeback. I don't necessarily see that as likely. Let's move on here. Interesting reporting from Joe Vardon that Cleveland and the ROY. Rockets are engaged in a deal or talks on a deal that would bring branded night and the rockets first round pick to Cleveland in exchange for Alec Burks. That is a different conception than the one that has been talked about. So often words a Kent bays more for next year in the first round pick with night going out because Burks actually expires after this year. And would also save the rockets about five million dollars or so in zella, I think it works. I haven't checked it. But the rockets by to throw or Cleveland might have to throw it a little bit more, actually like David Nawada from Cleveland might actually help the rockets, you can't shoot it all, but he is, you know, a pretty scrappy defensive player, but that would be a huge savings for the rockets next year also might enable them to really get into the market with that nearly full taxpayer mid level and put them in commanding position with about Margaret. Now the difference in some of the controls. We've been talking about is that Burks isn't really gonna help them. You know, I I don't think that's going to happen that he's. Can do some stuff off the dribble as okay spot up shooter? Not really good defensive player. So I I don't foresee him being a major part of what they're doing this year as they get into the playoffs. I think it's been clear that he's he's just not maybe coulda got there. But after those many injuries that he had his career is just kind of more of a bit player when you desperately need someone to create than some new can really be a part of a playoff rotation to me. But it would be major major savings for the rockets both this year and next year. So good understand. Maybe why would happen? But to trade that first rounder when you're not upgrading on the floor at all this year that to me is disappointment the end, this would be another cost cutting move for the Tillman for two rockets, if it were to go through IVA feeling those got out this way that it may not happen. I I wonder I mean Joe's in Cleveland's you mentioned it probably came from the Cleveland side, but an anecdote be a good value. The rockets pick is probably to be in the low twenty s this you'll be good value for Cleveland to to get another. The first round pick. I am impressed with how aggressive they have been taking on bed money to try and get picks. I laud Dan Gilbert for actually being realistic. Unlike some other owners about where his team was he could easily have done the all while Kevin love was injured. We could get right back into next year know that honesty is very very important. And while we're talking about Kevin lovey has been through some five on five scrimmages. He did not play in their loss to the Boston Celtics on Tuesday. So what kind of keep an eye on Kevin love? It's one of the things to track for the remainder of this Cleveland season. Also want to mention going back to the wizards briefly market Morris is hopeful that he can play. I think he said like, oh, he could he could come back by he cleared for contacts are that's why was unsure of the verbiage clear for contact by the all star break. We'll see when he can return presumably that will be as part of the wizards even though as you said, I would I would consider moving elsewhere. We might as well do the Anthony Davis. So Jason Concepcion put out a thing of what to call this and his favorite. Response. Which was also my own was somebody calling it the Bronx it which I really like. So that's what I'm going to use. I don't know can use whatever he wants the show is name. But the news from today is a couple of things on one front the encore front. Anthony Davis has been cleared and he sounds like he wanted to play in their loss to the Indiana Pacers. He did not that it might be a bit of posturing, but is also, you know, if the idea that he can maybe put a little bit of heat on the New Orleans pelicans from that from that angle. But then there's also the reporting that the Lakers are not interested in playing ball. They buy buy. And by that what I mean is they think what the pelicans want from them is ridiculous. You know that they're bidding against themselves. And you know, all these first round picks and all this kind of stuff, and we'll hear let let's be a worse Pacific their show. The reported offer was basically all the Lakers young guys plus two first rounders, and then supposedly came out that no they actually want just the ridiculous offer for first rounders four second. Rounders, and there's not going to gauge the Lakers aside from that. And that really is a little bit too much. And there is a parallel there to the reporting. And we don't know if this is true that San Antonio said in the quiet trade with Philly that they would only discuss the trade with if it involved, Ben Simmons or Joel Embiid, which is basically saying we're not engaging with you know, that's kinda the idea in from A's perspective. I really liked Sam amick wrote a nice piece for the athletic talking about the it was he framed it in a cool way with magic in age. And you know, the history of those two guys is players. But what he was really getting at is how Anthony Davis represents the last really good shot for how these teams have conceived of their rosters in the time pressures that they're under. And so he was connecting. Lebron, you know, the the twilight of his prime or his prime adjacent time and Kyrie Irving situation. And that is perilous to me for the Lakers because yes, there might be that there isn't a reasonable ground with New Orleans and. I've talked that. I'm not a huge fan of the guys they have this was a part of our show yesterday was me talking about how there really isn't. I mean, other than if we get into this ridiculously into like three plus for Trump picks in some swap rates or something there isn't necessarily a Lakers offer that I love. But if it's not Anthony Davis, then who and that's a real big problem for magic and play. Good answer. KP wrote a piece saying a even with only two first round picks. The upper tunic cost is pretty high though, they might not even make the playoffs this year. If they're so thin, though, it would depend who's on the buyout market after they traded all those guys, and they really wouldn't have a way to build around. Lebron in AD, not the LeBron and the rest of these dudes has looked at great so far and with all these rumors. I mean, it's clearly to me it's coming from a lot of it is coming from the leaker sides of what their offers have been. I don't know that that's a great idea to get that out there. They've pushing back they want their fan base to know that they're trying and you know, broddrick Turner, that's supposedly magic sky, according. To Nate Jones. Eb think those the one who said that I Pol jobs if that's wrong, but the LA times has been all about this. Usually, I guessing they're probably not getting their sourcing from the pelicans that the LA times. And so this idea that they traded their offered every single one of the young guys and that that's not enough. Well, hey, big surprise, you had this alter -cation in the locker they lost the warriors. And they just got bludgeoned in the worst loss of LeBron's career. Lebron had missed that game against the words windows was talking about that and his pod yesterday that it wasn't as load management. It was more. You know, he he had to sit out he had some soreness as opposed to just precautionary after playing forty minutes in that first game back into clippers after he'd been listed as doubtful for that game. You know, again, maybe it was LeBron wanted to come back, but a good team is going to tell them. No, actually, you can't if you're not ready yet. And so maybe he didn't look good obviously today as they lost by over forty points to the victory depot less Pacers. So I mean, maybe just because of what's been going on here and decided that everyone's gonna get traded. You do. I wanna play hard to leave LA wherever it wants to be. So just alike make LeBron feel better. And there's that image that a lot of people captured of LeBron sitting on the bench with three seats open next tomb as they're getting blown out in the fourth quarter. And know clearly LeBron is behind these machinations which Bob with what are you thinking? If you're one of these Lakers young guys other than just like this guy doesn't want me here. Like fuck him. That's what I'd be thinking. So that doesn't lead to well to end this organization doesn't want me here. And I'm trying to get paid and build my career. I don't wanna go play in New Orleans without Anthony Davis. Yeah. I wouldn't wouldn't be Jim. And then hilariously probably the way that you get to say is you play worse. That's so I mean with with all that it's not a recipe for success. If they don't get this trade done, which it appears they're not going to surely they'll be some sort of a reengagement. You would think I still think that there's a chance maybe for another team to come in try to grab a deep for this year. Then if it doesn't work out it looks like he's not gonna say, you can always. Lip again in the summertime in theory. Those same offers from the Lakers or Boston would be there in the summertime. So maybe you try to break in with the big offer. Those a lot of obstacles to that. Anyway, that's probably enough on AD unless you have anything to add. Well, the only other thing we've stat is that he did come out with that list of teams that are acceptable to him and all your bucks here and clippers here. Oh, yeah. We talked about that little bit on the fifteen in sixty because the clippers were one of those teams here. It would be so much fun to see him on the bucks. Just intellectually. It's not gonna happen. But it made me happy. So wanna mention it? We can move to the Philadelphia. Seventy Sixers team that we talked about f- covered for the NBA cast on Tuesday night. They lost to the Toronto. Raptors and part of the reason they lost was that they were missing two of their starters Wilson Chandler's out two to three weeks with a quad strain. That is a problem considering how limited their deputies and then JJ Riddick was a late scratch due to nausea. And I thought they they fought gamely in a wet down early in that game. But then brought themselves back Joel. Mbede was a monster in the second half. And Ben Simmons had some moments as well. But it just wasn't enough. Yep. And this team I mean, they need three rotation Blair's whether that's the buyout market or trade if they're serious about competing winning in the second round, they need through attention pledge. You can't start Mike Moscow. La at the fourth Chandler goes down. I mean, I think there's a thirty percent chance of Chandler just isn't going to be healthy for the playoffs. You know? I mean, he's missed a lot of time this year he with all the hip injuries had hamstring. Now. It's this quad strain to play him starter. Level of minutes doesn't see like a recipe for success Shamet now thinking give him ten minutes in the playoffs. But I mean, they just they gotta get some more wings. They probably need a stretch for option as well. As replace Chandler. I mean, they need to starters. I think you know, two or maybe maybe one starter because Ruddock obviously is there too. And then a really good bench Bs probably four and a three and those guys are hard to come by. They're gonna have to throw some assets into this fire in Orlando. I think this is actually significant mobile. Oppa? We don't know how long has to be out but stress fracture in his lower left leg. He's really tell guy. But not quite as large as somebody's got a little bit thinner build than some of these guys that have had issue. But no, it's additional need surgery. But would saying he will miss significant time that to me help very easily could be the rest of the season. So it's gonna be Kim. Birch. I guess it getting the backup sentiment. Birch might actually be more valuable than baba. This this point in time. At least you're talking about their on-court impact this year, but still not great to have their depth reduced at that point. If there were to be destroyed would seem very unlikely to me now, you don't even get the benefit of getting to play Bob and see what you have with him. If you move which thrust the year, and even as we go into the offseason, this is huge to Baba's headed, I think disappointing rookie your would be fair to say and Orlando can't feel comfortable going with him into next year as their starting center unless he comes back and maybe as dominant summer league or something like that. But you know, by the time somebody comes around the already of headed make their free agent signings. So this to meet kind of pushes it. More towards votes potentially getting re-signed here if they don't there's now no possibility that Bomba could show enough to where they're so excited that they let food go. It does look like it's going in that direction. And I don't know what the offers will be our four, but you know, in certain ways, that's disappointing. Just because the guy's all star. And he is basically putting them deeper onto the treadmill mediocrity. Now, maybe they're still bad enough where they can get a decent draft pick especially with lottery from we'll have to see. But we know the center market is going to be tepid. And especially to me, if we're Landau strikes early with coach, you know, like the idea of maybe they're more scared of other teams than they should be give him something too big and then limited flexibility to still paying four presumably unless they stretch him. They're still paying MAs for next year. They have a lot on their books. But we can also talk about another European center. Valentinus is on his way back. He will the raptors are hoping that he will play on this trip. He did not play in their win over the seventy Sixers. So we'll keep an eye on that in Chicago Carell Anthony has been waved to facilitate that till? I'll see trade where the bulls of gotten five point two million in cash for some pretty limited trades cleared almost four million bucks in those compared to what they're actually gonna have to pay these guys and Carmelo is gonna clear waivers. And there's thought that he might find a team after the trade deadline dust has settled also some talk that Casey p could be traded to Chicago for Jabbar Parker that would be ending credibly dumb trade by the Lakers to think that Jabbar is gonna help them more than Casey b has that just completely insane Jafari is the absolute last thing that this Lakers team needs to help them the season. In Boston, Marcus Boris was some right knee soreness remembers knee soreness that messed up his ear last year. And he's been playing a lot worse the last month or so after shooting it like crazy, the first couple of months and Kyrie Irving didn't play against their the Cavs, which they won any way on the road. He's actually now missed seven games since sort of the new year, not all with this hip soreness. But a lot of that's been against crappy opponents. Something to keep a little bit of an eye on though with him since you know, he's always a threat to miss some time. But good news out of Brooklyn of one of the scariest injuries that we've seen with care sliver potentially returning soon. Yeah. Very encouraging that lever per lunch is returning soon to five hundred five practice, and there is optimism that he can return to the nets lineup prior to the all star break, which is not that long. It's basically a week from right now. But let's let's say it's a little bit less successful than that needs back after the break. The nets are going into this tough schedule at the end of the year and getting Vert back would be a great thing for them. And Alan crab is also returning soon. He is expected to play on Wednesday. He's been out for a month and a half the last game. He played in was December twelfth, and they have debts. You know, Joe Harris's has stepped into Giral crab was having great season. Anyway, just good to have an extra guy that probably does not apply to Mussa who has not really been a part of their the regular team. Even though Kubrick's has done such a nice job. He's gonna stay in the G league for now. But he is quick to play. We can. To Charlotte where the good news is that Cody Zeller played he came off the bench and played twenty three minutes in they're close loss. Weird weird ending to the game against the clippers. But Tony Parker miss that game. Do what was called a back strain? He's been dealing with. Right right ankle soreness. So anytime somebody appears on the internet report for a different reason. I got a little bit concerned. We'll keep an eye on that. Of course in Denver Harris Murray and Millsap all did not play in their demolition lost to the pistons Marie close. He might he might come back to news questionable and didn't play. So we'll keep an eye on that. Erik Gordon didn't play against the sons had left the previous two games early due to right knee soreness. So a conservative. He's such an important part of the rotation especially that their shower this year and then Doug McDermott has bruise ribs. He will be out at least two more contests will of new faces in new places are going to result from the trade deadline, and if you wanna go ahead and see those guys in person seek is the way to do it. They pull. Millions of tickets together into one place you can easily find the seats. You want for the price that you're willing to pay us seek whenever I buy tickets tune event because they rank every ticket bayside value look for that big dark green dot in the section you want to sit in and you can just trust that that's the best deal in that section to spend all this time comparing all the different tickets and trying to figure out whether moving up five rose is worth another twenty bucks or not. They also guarantee every purchase. So you can shop for tickets with confidence. And it's not just sports concerts comedy theater. Whatever it is a geek has tickets available. My listeners if you have not yet tried the seek app, you can get ten bucks off your I see he purchased by that familiar promo code cap space ease remember 'cause we talk about cap space all the time the program that's promo code cap. Space for ten dollars off your first key purchase Seekie license event. We have the tickets and don't forget that cap space code to let them know that you came from us ten take a little bit of a break from all the trade deadline stuff. Don't wear you will. Get plenty of that. From us. Also wanna tell you guys about sewing were doing that is I think it's pretty huge actually even though it's not an NBA game. We're actually going to be able to do a cast of Julie game actually get the footage where were white listed to do that. Now, actually be like really calling a game all in the same windows. That's on twitch follow me on twitch. At Nate Duncan NBA. We're gonna be starting on Friday at ten eastern seven Pacific Rio Grande valley vipers versus the south bay leaguers, we get to see Daniel house. I think who is unintuitive and ran out of days and probably will get to see Isaac Banga Lisa for the south bay Lakers. But I realize it's not NBA. But this is probably the number one thing you could do to support us would be to follow me on twitch, twitch dot TV slash Nate Dunkin MBA because this is a huge step. We actually are white listed from the NBA do Julie games. And the hope is if we do a good job here, and it becomes popular enough that we might be able to act. Do this for real live NBA games as well? As you want to sync up anymore any of that stuff? Intellectually just all be in the same window. So this is a big step and actually get some official recognition here for what we're doing is huge. And so the more popular that becomes a the more grunge we can get. So again, I twitched TV slash nateduncannba is where you're gonna find that at ten eastern seven Pacific on Friday for G league game, obviously will be taking plenty of NBA questions as well. You know, it's not just necessarily going to be a jelly game that we're doing it. We got a lot of work to do to get up to speed on these two teams between now and then we're going to try and make it as close to a real broadcast. Even though we're not experts on the we'll do our best to become so between now and them. All right all-star draft time now Danny and can you take us through real quickly? What the format is the before. I draft might completely dominating team. That isn't what happened last year. But. Wait, wait, who did we end up with last year's we go? So we just like look at that real quick. Well, we can we can do our closing five so my closing five because I have it in the same Google talk. Mike closing five. I was LeBron's team. Mike closing five was kyri Jimmy Butler. Kevin durant? Lebron James and Anthony Davis your closing five was Steph curry James harden. Klay Thompson Jaanus, and I would assume that strain on green. So it was basically the warriors minus Katie plus Janas angered yeah. I mean, I don't know that that's entirely clear that your team is so dominating there. But we'll see where we end up where we end up this year. And we're changing it up in the interest. Fairness I pick I last year in the first round. And then it switches in for the reserves, and so you're going to pick I in in the start around, and I will pick I in the third round. So that means that means you are LeBron. And I am Janas yet team. Lebron is on the clock pretty shortly here yet last year. Hopefully, I buy whole strategy. Was ruined. When I forgot that you have to draft all the starters first before drafting some the reserves though, I think I got I picked in the reserves last year that's going to be really interesting it as well. So let's talk just who the starters are who remain Jaanus and LeBron. What does calling my team is team? Dante Toco, I I was a little like how how do you? How do you make this work? And that's how you do it. And so, yeah, let's go through the eight starters that we have to choose from the floor meeting west guys, Steph curry, James harden. Kevin Durant and Paul George, and then the east starters kyri Kemba Walker Kawai and Joel beat and as we go through here in line wall also reacted little bit to some of the all star selections that we didn't necessarily agree with. So I think that Steph curry is the best remaining NBA player on the board. But I am not going to select him for a couple of reasons. One of which I will get into maybe afterwards. They don't wanna reveal too much of my strategy right now. But instead I'm gonna do exactly what LeBron did last year with the number one pick, and I'm going to take Kevin Durant that we need some more size. I think to match up with Yannis. Yeah. That's not my favorite thing in the world for a couple of different reasons. But I'm still gonna take Steph. Hurry. I think that he you know, my offense can be built around his skill set. And Janas I'm happy that he's available because that means that I can you know, I can let him run the show a little bit and everything else in my needs at at that spotter different than your so I'm still going to go with Steph curry are so su- remaining here. I think it's we've got the two guards Irving and Kemba Walker got two small Ford's, George, and Leonard Joel Embiid is the only pure center, though, there are plenty of those in the reserves. But you know, you want your starting line at to match up reasonably well. And then there's James harden as well, but I'm gonna go with coli Leonard here. I again, once more defensive options on these guys who, you know, obviously are great players with the ball in their hands at fourteen done at a Kubo. Kinda makes me laugh hurts is you that I love that we had to hit the button on the excel spreadsheet that wraps the texts because it just didn't even fit in the cell. So I am going to go with Kawhi. Again, I wanna have some more defense some more versatility. And I think those there's plenty of scoring available on these also rosters. So I'm orienting my team towards defense so far here I had previously in other. I had thought about going with a a wing heavy group. There are a lot of wonderful wings in this starting collection. And since you took two of the three even though I have a preference in some of the other spots. I'm going to go with Paul George just make sure that you don't get him. I think that there would be a chance because then you would have that run on them. And there aren't as many comparable guys in other groups. So even though that leaves you with a pretty desirable choice. I'm gonna take Paul George anyway. So now, we're left with James harden. Kyrie Irving Kemba Walker and Joel Embiid, I had an -ticipant it'd that I was probably going to get stuck with harden. And so I didn't want to go with guys who couldn't switch because James harden needs to switch. So I will in fact, take James harden now, I mean, it's just so much talent on the team. He's hasn't had a chance to scale. Really never plays off all his all these times where he hasn't been assisted at all. But he acknowledged and some comments yesterday that he can't be as ball dominant going forward here. So I I think he can fit into what we're trying to do. And certainly in terms of the available talent remaining he is clued. The just the best overall players at sometime talent has to Trump fit. Although I think both of us are emphasizing fit pretty closely here. So this is this is a tough call for me because I love Kyrie. I think the Kyrie's wonderful player. He is a little bit superfluous when I have staff, but adding those two guys they're the other guy that I'm seriously considering I don't think this is going to impact your choices. Joel Embiid just 'cause Joel Embiid is a wonderful center. But as you've said, the center position is very very very deep moving forward, you know, in the second round and all that kind of stuff, and well, I agree with you that it is great to have a traditional starting lineup. I'm going to go with Irene partially because I think that he's a better option, and maybe that leads you to taking Kemba. But also because if you take your well instead of Kemba Walker. Then I'm I still have Korean happy without so I'm going with career ring while I love this. I'm gonna take Joel. Because now you're starting lineup has three guards who are like six two and under basically. So you're you're stuck with Kemba. Now, I think and also he is clearly like just not even on the same plane as a player as the rest of these guys. So I mean, I don't really know how this could a worked much differently for you. I mean, I think if I were in your position, I might have taken him bead just to try to get some size within Embiid in Janas. How will those guys fifty out me? I've just got so much size compared to to your team right now. But I really had the advantage with having the first pick. So it's a, but I and you're going to get stuck with Kemba, regardless. So I think if I were you knowing that I would have been stuck with him. I might have tried to not draft the small guards, and I was trying to not draft the small guard well on you you get stuck there. I'll tell you why I didn't. And that's because of the idea between the starters and the closing five. I care more about the closing five in the starters. And I'm sitting there going well. Kemp is a good basketball player. I can use him in a lot of different ways, and he just won't be apartment closing five. Yeah. If these guys have to start both halves, which they probably do, you know, I'm hoping I can just run up the score enough during that period that it's not gonna matter as much. So all right. And let's talk just a little bit about the stars. These are the starters that we would have had a you except I would have had Brad Beal instead of Walker again. I mean, neither Walker nor Bieler anywhere close to the plane that the rest of these guys are on would you have had a D as a starter over Paul George. I I can't remember I think I did when we recorded the podcast, but things have changed since then I mean, Paul George continuing to play really really well and not only on these mistime time. Yeah. So when we picked it. Yeah. I had Paul George. That's I had. I mean, I had a D over Paul George. Also, the body of work to me speaks in favour of Davis. Also like rewarding you know, a center, you know, having a real some somebody who is among the best at his position and. Having that be represented? I I do like that. It's not it's more of a tie-breaker than anything else for me. But I it was something that weighed in his favor. So yes, we'll front court thing is got to go. I mean, that's the those done because everyone's I go all the centers suck. But that was like kind of like a three year. Lol and the NBA was trying to be like more forward thinking. And just like, oh, yeah. You don't have to have a Senator anymore. But really, I think just having like two guards and two Fords and a center actually makes more sense versus just guards and front court. So I mean, or or you can say it's point guard wings Biggs too. But generally most teams really going with one traditional big at this point. But anyway, like this whole front court thing. I mean, there's like I think three different ways of doing it that would be better than this. Right. I mean, you could have point guard shooting guard small forward power forward center or you could have guards. And or you could have point guard wings bigs as well doubt. All make more sense in the way, they do it right now. Well, I will say that. I would I'm happy that it's not point guard wing big because I'm happy that they're more point guards than two guards on this list because they're. Better players. Okay. So you have the first selection among the reserves. I am very curious to see what you're gonna do. My guess is that you are debating seriously between two different players here. That would be correct, sir. I am debating between two different players. And and I guess you can't reveal who those two are. Because you don't know because there's a possibility that you're not gonna take the other guy. And I am the reason that I'm choosing to the player that I'm God. It's this is this is the single hardest choice because I know I would be very much. Although for my team, I think the choice would be relatively clear for your team. It's tough though. Yeah. Because you you do not have a lot of Saizen include. I mean, I think we can agree that of the players remaining on the board AD is clearly the best player. Yes. But do you wanna go for a benefit? I mean, at least, you know, the AD because he's probably like just not even going to be allowed to play much the rest of the year. Like he's gonna be actually both. He's getting he's going to be more active. Actually is going to be one of the one of the things that I wanted to talk about what this pick and one more thing to if we're keeping it kind of real life realistic. If I were like, actually, LeBron real life. You knew I would have just picked street. I like that just just as like to create all the stories and like throw him, a boat is probably, hey, you know, you could still cut LA, well, and that that same logic. If I were honest, I would take Anthony Davis not only because the bucks were on his list. But because LeBron AD you want to keep them apart. I think that that's a part of it in with all of that said, I'm still cut you have so much size. Good lord. You like, oh, she's so weird. I'm going with clay. You know, what screw it? I'm going with quite there. So many centers. I love I love AD. I do I wonder what his activism is going, right? Like, what is actively level is going to be? But clay in this setting like the difference between him and Beal is that he's a way better defender. And I think that he could actually use that E. I mean, I'm drafting this more not necessarily an all star team where nobody. Tries on defense. But that his versatility there. I think could be useful with all my smoke guards. We saw this in or you weren't there in the game when they played the Sixers clay chasing around JJ Redick. And I I know that you don't have the now, but you are eventually going to have guys that he's going to have to do battle with. And so I'm going to go with Klay thinking that the the replacement player concept with him is actually steeper than it is for the bigs. Yup. I think that's true. Actually, I think the the is. And we'll talk about that with the the Rigaud bear snub as well. We can after we're done here. We'll talk about some of these selections tansel Russell. But yeah, I I am going to obviously go with AD now. I mean, he's clearly the best player. I think he's a better fit than in beat. He'll be in my closing line-up. Over embiid. Embiid. We'll talk shit later on social media, and it's not going to matter because my team's gonna look pretty awesome in the closing five and for those who are like Klay Thompson. What are you talking about? Like, he didn't even really deserve to be on the team, which I agree with. I don't think he deserves to be on the team the way he's played for most of the year. But just you gotta remember scale ability. There's only the whole there's only one ball that's a little bit of a Hackney conceit there. But the idea that you need a certain amount of shooting unique guys who can operate off the ball, even if they are gonna finish plays, and you need guys who can create and guys who can finish and so- clay. I mean, he's I tried to pick him before we even ran out of the starters last year. And I couldn't just because again, he's scales. So well, he's a good defensive player. He can switch. You can't leave him at all. He can run off some screens as wallet. If you need Jimmy he'll take a few too many twos. But you could also just not give the ball unless he's behind the three point line. And that's why he really just fits in. So I mean, I remember when Mike suggestion was not playing him on the Olympic team in two thousand sixteen. I was like, are you kidding me? Like, you know, he just playing like Carmelo Kyrie DaMarcus together over like Klay and Paul George allege like you just don't understand how teams fit together at all. When you have this much talent. If you're doing that, so yeah. And tom. Listen just doesn't really have any weaknesses, which are is going to be here. I mean, there just are not many weaknesses among all these guys here. So I'm I'm a little jealous that you got clay. 'cause I you know, AD I felt like I could gotten some other big so, but obviously I like him better than Embiid. And now our team can switch one through five two at the end of the game, which should meet pretty nasty with my second pick. I'm conflicted between taking somebody that. I'm convinced would be your next pick and taking somebody who makes more sense with my team. Let's make a note of that. By the way, I wanna hear who you thought I was gonna take Oregon's after I take him. You can. Yeah. You can say that. But then sorry, go ahead. So so basically between my need and your need because my team is still very low on big men. However, there are a lot of them and my preference. I do have preferences. But I don't think those preferences are particularly severe so I'm just gonna make your team worse. Nope. This this is why why there's another there two guys. I can just earmuffs. And if you want to just say, no, no, no, no. I'll explain. After you make your pick. So I'm going to go with an this probably surprised a lot of people. But again, it goes to the positional scarcity. I'm going to go with Chris Middleton because there isn't really another type of guy like him, you know, middle the more wing sized guys. And I just like how he can fit your has played with you honest, obviously as been I think Middleton is actually going to be the first reserve taken. I think this is gonna take him over a AD made comments to that effect. And I think Middleton, you know, there are a lot of guys that I like the other big thing for me is that Ben Simmons. I'm thinking about it like that his fit with Janas in particularly great though, it would be fun to see those guys together. So you know, if there are other guys that if they're around I might take them. But I just think Middleton, you know, he's kind of the last of his ilk there, and so I was because he's bigger than Beal. So I'm like, okay. I can do something with that. Because other than Paul George. You have all the other wing size guys. So I'm like, okay. I'll get one more. Yeah. I wish if Middleton were just a little bit better defensively, I think he would have been. An obvious pick. And I might even have considered taking him. But yeah, this this is really interesting here now for me. And remember the way we're dealing with this work pretending that this is like, you know, an NBA finals series with these teams matching up or you know, a game seven of the finals like everyone's playing hard. We're not gonna be like, oh, well, you know, Russell Westbrook works great in the all-star game. Because like he plays really hard and push the ball. And nobody's trying. I'm we're not going through that kind of analysis route trying to win an all star game. We're trying to say if these teams really match up with each other, and we're playing hard and had some time to be coached and stuff. So that said, I think I'm gonna maintain my theme of versatility here. And I will go with Ben Simmons just to give another guy who can come in still do my switching one through five approach. We're gonna try to a lot of that. I do like the transition game. We got a lot of great transition players here. You know, he could sub in for hardening everyone else on my team can shoot. So I'm not really that worried about his lack of shooting ability. And I'm thinking of him as more of you know, a ten or fifteen minutes game reserve anyway who can come in and defend and still play the same system. So I I like my team a lot better than years defensively. That's where I'm still kind of focusing here now. So do you want to reveal what you're doing? Or did I pick that you didn't pick guy? So if you're never gonna take Damian Lillard, I'm taking Damian Lillard because he's a wonderful offensive player. I now have the if we're drawing positions the way, I draw them. I now have the four best point guards in the world. Which is pretty exciting. I can just play them to in to. I don't care you can play pick and roll. Because all my guys are just going to switch you and whatever Dame can do find. I'm not I'm not super concerned about it. And also it sticky him away from you. And again, this is keeping with the idea. Basically, I think part of what's going on here is that neither one of us is taking big time. Because once somebody takes one you can just take another. And then it's fine. You know, the the margin there. So I'm just gonna keep taking guys that aren't that? Who I just I have the biggest difference between how much I like them. And I like their compatriots for me the. The the margin between Dame Lowery. And during Russell is the biggest of any of the positional groups that makes sense to me again. I'm just I I got plenty of guys who can run pick and roll I don't really need like a point guard. I would rather have a six nine point guard, which I have a number of guys or, you know, a six five point guard who you know, you can't post up. So I can't believe on touting hardens defense that much maybe being a little bit of a shell here for for my squad. Okay. So still left on the board here the Smalls. I guess you could say Russell Westbrook, Bradley Beal, Kyle Lowry. Bigs lamarcus Nicole Yokich Blake Griffin vote-rich alrea. Forget Russell among the swallows. I guess it did. Well, he he's he's not really an all-star. And I'm already resigned to the fact that I'm gonna get stuck with us. So there's really there's really no way around it at this point. Okay. I'm trying to decide whether to go big now at this point. I do have two bigs already. I mean with between him beat AD you. I'm not really wanting to play that many other centers. You know, I have to play him bead in the starting lineup. So I think I'm gonna go with Blake Griffin here. Another guy who can grab and go he can shoot it. Well, enough his defensive certainly Wayne this year as he's but another guy who at his best could move his feet a little bit and switch. He's a tank you can en- guard in the post a little bit. I'm hopeful that in a more limited role. He can defend better than he has since he got to Detroit. So that's where I'm going with Blake here. And I am very curious to see where you're going to go next. I would love to go with another player. Just because I do have another preference there. But I'm going to take I'm gonna take Karl Antony towns, I think that he can fit in really well with what I'm doing. I wonder what his physical potential defensively like how that could. Work there. And I love what Yokich does. But with this many good teammates, even though guys like Stephan Kyrie can do a lot of work Klay, obviously off ball. I feel like towns towns is probably to me a more intuitive fit on a team that doesn't have to use his unique gifts. And so that's why I'm going with towns over over yoga. Yeah. I love the fact that you just don't care about defense on this team. At at all, I'm going to take Brad Beal at this point. I need one more shooter. And he's really the best one left on the board at this point in anything. He's hit at least will try defensively he's got some size. So a not ideal fit into my switching system. But we're getting to the ninth man now. So I think Bill we are going to need one more shooter off the bench other than K D. I mean, we've got guys who would definitely make shots who've got letter we've got hardened, but those aren't guys who are just kind of pure spot up shooting type of guys. That's why I'm gonna go with bionic. We we still have a real need there. And I feel pretty good about my team. Now, we're probably just getting down to the reserves here. That top nine. I feel great about at this point. I was really helping you. We're going to take a big because then that would make my decision easier. So instead maybe out of spite I'm taking Kyle Lowry because I don't want to have like Russ in de ngelo. I just don't really need either of them and so- rally. I like more than the other ones and I'm torn between bigs. So I'm going to my hoping that you'll make a decision. And if you don't then all just choose whoever I want Trump. All right. So we still have lamarcus Yokich Westbrook Vujovic and Russell Nicole Yokich is by far the best player of those guys remaining. He is a magical passer, which can help these guys all improve. I am a Lou worried about the defense. Lamarcus is probably the best defensive player remaining. I also it doesn't make any sense for me to draft Westbrook because you're not gonna take him. You've got eight million point guards. So I can always just get him later. So I will go with Nicole Ioka just guy think he's that much better than lamarcus. And. Yeah, you know, that's he's not going to switch. It all lamarcus could do that a little better. But he's still not great at it. So at this point that there's no. Great fit here. I will stick with yoga just because of the passing in the shooting at the can scale pretty well. In a way that lamarcus doesn't really Yokich was probably the better pick for your team. And I think lamarcus is the better pick for my team. So I'm happy I'm happy to have him. Like that was kind of how I expected it to go around before this, which is unfortunate because I actually would've taken Beal. If I would've known that you would awaited another round, just Adam. I like, Bradley Beal, I think is an a good fit for this. So I'm taking lamarcus here. That's not not really much hesitation for me. I think he's a better player for this format that we're using to pick than the other guys like Russ is certainly a talented player. You know, he is a recent MVP he is higher on the echelon. But he is totally superfluous on my team. And I mean, I have a million point guards, and they fit in better in this kind of a system. Now, we were planning a single all star game. I would take Russell lot higher because he plays like he gives a shit, and that's useful. But that's a different exercise. Unfortunately, his giving shit results in a lot of shots taken a forty percent shooting, which probably isn't. What you want in all sorts setting. I'm actually a little torn here team chemistry. Russell Westbrook is not the kinda guy who's going to sit on the bench and be happy about it. He in K Dido get really get along. So you know, what? And also, maybe there's some possibility that I could force the ngelo Russell on you. If I don't take Westbrook. So I'm gonna take Nicole vuckovich. I do I don't I don't want Westbrook on my team because I don't think he's going to be good for chemistry, and as we're getting down to the eleventh man here, it doesn't really matter at so which is gonna play from either. But he's a first time all-star, hopefully, he'll be cool with you know, getting a few spot minutes here. And there you had the chance to put the okay see trio back together and chose not to do it that. Yeah. The there's and those guys didn't want to be together either. Well, maybe maybe in the beginning. I think they probably get along decently. Now, I mean, probably took some time, but you are not going to stand. While Russell on me. I mean, you could there is an argument to be made that with everything that Russell might make more sense with my team. But I shouldn't have said it that way because Westbrook and de ngelo because he's you know, he's a more capable shooter. He can function more off ball, but Westbrook active defensively, he gets to play with Paul, George, which we should be exciting and Abby he assisted on the bench and watch Paul George play. You mean, hey, maybe he can learn how good poachers can be in crunch time. Maybe that maybe that'll be the lesson in that can Oakley. Okay. So you can king gain a real benefit from it. So I'm gonna take Russ over to until Russell he is a meaningfully better player, and I care about that at this juncture, so I'm gonna go with Westbrook. And I could see that you might actually wanna play Westbrook over Kemba potentially. So yeah, I'm stuck with the ngelo Russell to finish it out here. Who do you think is the last player drafted like in real life? Probably I mean. There are so many muscle. Russell suck. And second to last like there there are so many Biggs and food is good. But I think that he's especially when Yoenis and LeBron or the or the captains, I think they will value. The guys you can do with the ball in their hands. And so that will lead to some of them going higher in the draft. Like, I think Russell Westbrook is going to go a lot higher than he did in this one in particular, but votes. Yes, if which would be my my pick, I'm not one hundred percent confident in I mean, if if victory depot had been healthy than I would have been almost onto percent confident. But sadly is not. So it's a more challenging thing. I guess I I would Fisher people were healthy. I have drafted him before a lot of these guys. But unfortunately, he is not. And it wouldn't surprise me. If a Russell just because maybe he's still unpopular due to that the snitching episode, which I've personally, I mean, that's not that wasn't great. But it's not like Nick young was like being a good guy for what he got out. Four. Let's talk a little bit about some of the subs here. I mean for me, I'll let you go first here who would you who made it would you have had out? And who would you replace them with we talked about this a little bit before? But now that we actually have the teams. I it's interesting to talk about go bear is the most obvious inclusion for me, I would have had him. So for talking Western Conference deserves because you're not allowed to swap it over. And also that is stupid like it doesn't have if you're especially if you're not drafting by teams that should be the twenty actually it should be the twenty six best players. But if it's going to be the twenty four also we have to I guess technically do that you can pick to win with whenever you want. But unless you're not which would actually be kind of funny. But I I am going to pick way just because jerk Izumi's is such a defensive liability. That is just an a year has to play in a little bit. If I mean, I guess we're not doing an actual all star format. But so, but but but. Take weight and LeBron would of course, take way because that's this guy. So for me, the the most egregious non chosen player is Rudy Gobert. I would have taken him over lamarcus. I mean, he would have been my winnow because technically didn't start. So he would have been my second west big behind Anthony Davis. And I mean, he's been awesome this year. So that could mean a lamarcus is out that could mean clay, I I just don't think clay warranted it with his play over the course of the season. Now, his body of work as a career is I picked him. I of the reserves for reason. So you have that. I mean, the Angelo in terms of let's let's say though, when I let's just talk quickly about about the west. Yeah. I mean, Gobert to me he was ninth of my twelve selections, but the two guys one of the two guys that one of the two guys that I would have had out for him were both guards Westbrook and Klay Thompson. And when you're comparing go bear to Karl Anthony towns or lamarcus Aldridge you. I think that's probably what happened in the coaches voting other than. The explanation. I gave yesterday to which is that, you know. I think the because coaches focus on defense more than their preparation that leads them to over eight offense players but under eight defense of players because you're not preparing to go bear as much at least during the regular season. Maybe during a playoff series, you would more. So if you're comparing him to towns and Aldridge, you it's not as much of a trap. See I think he's been better than both of those guys. But not so obviously better this. You're certainly the impact metrics like better those of been lower on towns and Aldridge, but those guys also provide a lot more on offense than Gobert does. So that's not as much of a travesty. I think he's been so much better than Westbrook, and clay, but if the coaches are saying, you know, voting for guards there, the Western Conference reserve guards other than Lillard. There isn't really anyone who looked like a lock I ended up having Jrue holiday and go bare rather than Westbrook and Thompson and both those guys numbers. Just you know, they don't really have a case in my view with Wes. For being inefficient as he has yet. His passing has been great. But there's really a forty eight percent shooting his tough tough to deal with. But should we turn to the east? Now here did you wanna add any more on the west? I don't really need to add anything more for those in the east. There were I went back and looked at my sheet that we're kind of two subs that I would make one would be, and you could think of this in either, you know, so do the worst guy who made it on his diangelo Russel to me the best guy who didn't is Jimmy Butler. I mean butlers cases a little bit bizarre because of everything that happened in Minnesota. But then the other one is Myles Turner and Chris Middleton Middleton part of that fabulous bucks team. But I think Turner has been and I remember this is as we were picking and the Pacers defense has gone a little downhill, but there are other reasons for that as well. So those would have been my to you know, it was it was true. Then I I'm not haven't really seen anything to go away from that sort of an evaluation at this point. Yeah, Russell wasn't even remotely in consideration. For me. He's not even the best point guard on his own team. He's fifty three percent true shooting awful awful defensive player. You know, he's the. Three points below the league average, basically in terms of true shooting, and he's the kind of guy who beats up on bad defenses. And anytime you get guys with with mobility or athleticism. It's gonna fall apart for him. Can't get to the rim. It all he finishes. Fifty three percent at the rim. He doesn't get to the foul. Totally dependent on the jump shot passing has taken a step forward. But I mean, I don't think he's even necessarily a top fifteen point guard in league we'll have to go through a rankings might fudge that by a few numbers either way. But I mean, I think Eric Bledsoe. Al Horford, PASCAL Siaka, not to mention Butler as well. Ola depot is another one. I think even before the injury. He just was personally missed a month. He only had one year of being really good last year, though, that was obviously far superior to a lot of the guys on this last year who were in this year in the east. But and then also, you know to have this injury missed nearly two months of the season. Now by the time the all star game actually gets here and wasn't playing at that great of a level either. So I didn't really think there's much of an argument for him other than just only made it last year in the Pacers are pretty good and we have to pick for the Pacers. Myles Turner was the guy that you talked me into at the end you I think he's taken a step back. The Pacers defense taken a step back as well as the that's a little tougher. But they're really just you know, who was that twelfth got Jimmy Butler was obvious to me just because of what he's done in the past. And you know, he's been pretty solid this year for the Sixers, and yeah, I did that thing in Minnesota. Maybe that's the coach's trying to punish him for that. By not selecting him that just doesn't really make much sense to me at all. I mean, it makes sense to me, but it's not fair when he's just so much better of a player than the rest of these guys. And then you know, Middleton to me was also the third best guy on his own team. In terms of the impact metrics, it's really been right around the league average in terms of true shooting. Dow's one of those ones aren't the books are really good. Who's the second player? We're gonna pick from them. Oh Khris Middleton at a really hot. I two weeks of the year. And so we're not gonna actually really like look at his stats and what he's doing. And and he's a guy's been talked about for longer. It's presumedly is going to get a MAC contract. But I think both blood so and Lopez had been better than him this year, even if he's maybe more valuable because of the position he plays. So yeah, I was not a huge fan of the Russell pick or the depot pick. And you know, I think that that those it just yeah. The east is pretty rough. But I think Jimmy Butler to me has a bigger grievance than really go. Bayer does just because like I got selected instead of him was just so bad. And and this is really interesting, Danny we should talk about this. What does it mean? Now that Dangelo Russell made an all star team. And that's gonna really complicate things for the nets it shouldn't because he's not a deserving all star. But it's going to gear is a huge threshold in not the nets thinking. But every other teams about whether this player, whoever it is is good enough as a restricted free agent to really go after and why I would be concerned as the nets is an all-star appearance might be enough to encourage the team, especially a team that may may not be as well run. There are few examples that could be there that might be point guard needy to say, hey, this is our guy like we've we might as well go after it, especially if they're not unrestricted. Destination is the twenty three year old store. Exactly. And so that's why they should be scared. Re restricted free agency this year. I think that a lot of teams are going to be out when the first line of music stops. And then the teams that are left a lot of them. Like, let's say it's the clippers like, I don't think the clippers are going to go hard after de ngelo Russell those types teams. But if it's Phoenix if it's I mean, I think Orlando is better run. But there might be a circumstance I mean, they're so point guard needy. And if one of those teams offers him like twenty million a year, you're sitting there going well shit. And then you give me all good. It'd be more than that. Now twenty five because the courts it's going to be more than that. Well, I mean, it depends on which teams have cap space available because restricted free agents are always after the first stage. So maybe maybe somebody gets spoken for that were surprised by it's good point guard market in the unrestricted free L absolute will. Yeah. And unfortunately for teams like the magic and all that there are not from what I hear. They're not that many point guards Mirant is really the guy, maybe garland. So I'm not sure that anybody will draft one and say, we don't want to sign anybody. Either 2017 we saw the point guard market, really. Impacted by the drafting of point guards. But I anticipate that being as much of an issue this year. Yeah. I mean to me it's really going to be more are the nets can have the balls to not match. I mean, can you let and it doesn't look like they are in the mix for some of these great free agents. Despite the fact that they handle the space. I we'd sort of viewed it as fate company at the start of the year that that Russel twenty one million capital. They're gonna just let that go. And it seemed unlikely that he would resign. And it doesn't seem that they made any progress at all an extension talks. So yeah, I mean are they going to have the balls to just trust their evaluation and let him go or they just going to say, hey, we're trying to build something here. He's been a big part of it. He was in. Also, we'll see how he plays the rest of the season two and they are going to make the playoffs. We'll see how he plays in the playoffs. But yeah, it's that'd be a huge mistake in my view to spend that kind of money on a guy who number one. I don't think has the upside, you know, I mean because really I think he's shooting about as well as he can right now. I don't think he can get much better there and just just maybe become a little bit better a passer. Lupu better defender, there's really. You know with his athleticism not a ton of upside Gill up better. And so I mean, it's like always an all star. Yeah. We pay him twenty five billion. Yeah. That's perfectly good. No. Let's let's come down a little bit there. I wanna make you thing there. I mean, I've been mentally in the process of starting to work on my off season preview stuff because I'm start working on that in two weeks. But Brooklyn's long-term financial flexibility is very impacted by what they decide with Daniel Russell because they don't have a lot of long term money on the books. They have Dinwiddie who's at about eleven twelve million a year. And then eventually they're going to have to probably pay care silver. And then they will you know, depending on who does well from this group be one or two other guys Jared Jared. But if you give de ngelo Russell twenty five twenty eight million you have a lot less to work with. And so even if this, you know, the the rosy scenario of Kenny Atkinson's, a coach that people wanna play for urine a major market, even if you're not the team in that major market, you have a lot less to work with unless they think they can get the ngelo Russell at that kind of price. And then he still passes the test, and so they can move him. But that's a really risky gamble. I I wouldn't I wouldn't have the confidence to that. Yeah. I wouldn't either. And you know, having made the all star team the idea of like getting into agree on a relatively low. Ball offerings gonna want the backs out. You know, so so before restricted free agency is going to be tough. And imagine if like Andrew Wiggins had been in the east his second year, he's averaging twenty two or twenty three game and each he could have been all starting. And then you know, they ended up Maxine him out. Anyway, I mean, that's all you didn't you to give it a chance to go. Oh, and maybe then somebody would have done enough to give him the max of. I was I I didn't know new myself quickly enough. That's why shouldn't. Another another consequence here, you can basically right? Klay Thompson ticket to hall of fame. Now, I think, you know, a fifth all star team already a three time champion looks likely to be a four-time champion. He's gonna make a dream on green not making it a. I mean, I didn't even really think it was possible that clay could make it frankly, Draymond green not making it. You know, that's a little bit of a blow to his all star chances because he didn't make it in twenty fifteen years only what I think a three time all star that's kind of right on the borderline. Although if Dennis Rodman made it you'd have to think that he'd be Rodman had a lot of longevity though. Despite getting a really late start in terms of his age. I think he was like twenty four twenty five by the time he debuted. So that that's interesting to keep in mind as well. Blake Griffin getting an all star selection. I think that's some it's going to help push him in that direction as well. Kyle lowry. Another interesting one for him to make another team that I didn't think that was a lock at all just based on the time that he's missed that is stats are not that. Unbelievable. I think you know, I think he was deserving in in an Eastern Conference by the impact metrics were there weren't really many other great selections. I think the coaches did it right that time. So that's really interesting one as well. Kemba Walker or starting the all star game in his hometown. The that's pretty huge at any other one here on UC that like, oh, this all star selection is really going to burnish their historic legacy. Lamarcus aldridge. I mean, he's going to be hall of Famer I think it was the six seven Allstars for him. Now, you think a lot more about that than I do. So I will I think it's really nice as a feather in the cap for somebody like Chris Middleton. It's very possible. This ends up being his only all star. I don't think it affects his hall of fame credentials or anything like that. But I like for a guy who's been good for a while to get that opportunity. Oh, actually, there is one other thing. I wanted to ask you got does claim making the all star team changed the way you think about his all MBA eligibility are viability because that was something that I thought was basically off the table and now with him making it a Mike, maybe the maybe it's a different voting pool. But maybe they'll consider him as well. Especially if the warriors play well in the second of season. Alright. Well, so let's think about this. Curry Irving harden. Those guys are locks. Colored is Alaka ahead of him. So now he's in competition with Kemba Beal Lowry ole depot, getting injured helps them a lot actually at the guard position. Ben Simmons is probably going to be counted as a guard. Yeah. Okay. So it's really Klay Kemba, Simmons, Beal and Lowry. Yeah. Wouldn't shock me, especially if he plays with all the rest of the season, if the warriors continue on this really nice run that they've been on as well twelve and one in their last thirteen game too. If they get to sixty wins as their projected to shit he could make and that has huge implications for the off season. Yeah. Joe lake of head some comments today or yesterday with Takao commie saying that money is going to be no object. Now, they don't have to pay him the full thirty five percent of the salary cap. It could in theory, give the words of financial advantage of what they already had the financial evanger with the eight percent raises and the thirty max that was yeah. That's the other part of this is that you cannot offer a thirty can't offer a designated veteran contract for fewer than five years as a new contract. So they can't do that light fun. Thing of like, oh thirty three percent for four years or three years, plus one or something like that. Thirty three percent for five years. But yeah. So I mean, and that was already going to be a really bad contract by the end. And now if he makes sense native veteran, I mean that would be. Yeah. That's that would be a big problem for the warriors. And the thought has been that is long as the warriors come correct with their offer Claes can leave. But it's going to be a problem when if they try to low ball him in some respected their thought, maybe he could get the derozen, you know, the five year a little bit less than the max. But still way more guaranteed. He got from another team. So yeah, I mean the, but the idea that, hey, you're not paying me. Absolutely as much as you can. Yeah. That's a concern. Aren't I think we can wrap up here for this segment? Don't know when this is going to run exactly or what we're going to have before after this. So, you know, maybe we're done. We're not. We'll see.

Tobias Harris Los Angeles Clippers Philadelphia Sixers Jimmy Butler LeBron James NBA Ben Simmons Harris Aloom Knicks Jerome Robinson Landry Shamet LA Lakers Philly Reggie bullock Detroit Tobias Harris Shamet Wilson Chandler twenty twenty Miami
Hour 3: Tobias Harris

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Hour 3: Tobias Harris

"The. Stanford Gundy in with us as he will be every week throughout the NBA season. I just asked him we do precious little prep around here. And it's obvious with basically every syllable. But we actually asked stand during the break stand. Do you have anything in sports that you're fired up about? And then he starts talking about the government shutdown and being guilty walking through an airport. So go heads stand tell the people whatever it is that you wanna tell them about the government shutdown and the guilt you felt walking through the airport. What look I don't care what side of the. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Stan I'm so sorry. Oh. You wonder? You wanted. He wanted that lead to talk about that. I'm sure we'll get to. I did you know, it's like this. It's like if. Here is the question of from the magical, creative content that has pretty damn impeccable timing. I'm hoping it's a good question. Like the last one, what is your favorite home in your room? I'm sorry. What is your favorite room in your home? And why? Bathroom. Wow. Chris got in there. Fast bathroom is your favorite what his kitchen for quiet time alone with my thoughts. Whether it's whether it's the doing the bathroom or whether it's showering. It's just I'm alone. And I'm just she's nice that is someone who's trying to get away from crying, baby. I don't think a lot of people would go with bathroom there, ROY ROY. What would be your choice the kitchen? Of course, ROY likes him some food even though all ages Doritos. My favorite at my bedroom. I got a TV in their got apple TV, watch everything. Maybe it's it's nice. I was gonna say that when you said you were in the bathroom alone. Baby. Limited show on Instagram and Twitter stand. What about you? In fact, we'll put it on the poll at lebatardshow just give them a list of rooms in the house. I'm think most people are gonna take bedroom there. I'm going to go bedroom in for a lot different reasons than a mean. And I want to apologize on behalf of ESPN Disney, and everyone who has ever had a visual thought on what standing Gundy just created in your life in terms of visual. No, dan. That's where I do the lebatardshow from when I'm home. Yeah. Rappers all over the floor, and that bedroom Eminem rappers all over the how big how big was the did you get a normal bag of Eminem's that you split last night between this morning, a normal Bagger giant bag, a super son, just the small bag just the small bag, excellent restraint Eminem, and the only reason. No, they didn't have the bigger bag. You're looking for the bigger banks. Is this the biggest size you have. Do I did think about getting two of them? And I said now, that's probably pushing it too far twenty seven dollars. You guys were great on the subject of Kyrie Irving before the show. I wonder how all of this is going over in his locker room. When STAN Van Gundy says he saw them have more success last year without him. And now they're struggling with him or competently with expectations. He's sitting here talking about how experienced he is. And how experiences teammates aren't and he's telling people publicly called LeBron James who embarrassed pretty publicly by blindsiding and leaving the franchise in a way that made a whole lot of people look at LeBron James selfish and difficult he called LeBron James Mike play that sound again for the audience. So they could see the context, and so they can hear his tone that can understand entirely what it is that Kyrie Irving is doing here for young player. Wanted to everything fingertips I wanted everything to be at my threshold. I wanted to be the guy that let us change on one of these leader. I wanted to be all that and other responsibility any best player in the world. Leading team is something that's not meant for many people. Brown was one of those guys that came to Cleveland and try to show us what it's like when you're championship, and it was hard for sometimes get the most out of the group. He's not the easiest thing in the world. And like I said only fewer or mid for chosen forward. And you know, I feel like the best person called him because you know, he's been in this situation. So earlier STAN you said that he felt like he was trying to put his teammates on blast. And as I listened to it now, even though yes that was the effect that happened. I wonder if in Kyrie's mind, he was actually trying to connect to the hey, I was just like you once upon a time. Yeah. But but again, I I mean he sort of exalting himself. He tried to put himself on the same level as LeBron as you know, there's very few people in this world who are meant for this role. And he's calling out his teammates, which he does all the time. I'm just not a big I'm not a big fan of that. I don't mind it in your locker room or on the court, but to go out in the media and do it. I'm not a big fan. I mean, you can talk about what the team needs to do. And you can talk about what you need to do better. I'll tell you what Debbie heck of a lot better off if Kyrie would play consistently the way he played last night. He was outstanding last night. We haven't seen that on a consistent basis. I think he ought to concern himself more with that than with worrying about what his teammates are doing wrong. I'm curious whether you guys agree with what I'm about to say because we cannot -solutely, hyper analyze this. We will do it with the soap opera stuff, especially. In the content business when we need something to talk about or argue about but isn't this as simple as he left Cleveland because he wanted the team to revolve around him. And he went to Boston is the same guy who wants the team revolve around him. Yeah. I think you're hitting it on the head. I mean, that's what he wants. I mean, you can hear it any statement where he talks about you know, how few people were meant for this role, obviously putting himself. They're like, okay. We get it kyri. You've used your time to tell us how great you are. And you're right there with LeBron as a leader and the whole thing, I get it. But that's that's why he left it's Alette because he could not be that in Cleveland as long as the brunt. Was there he came to Boston? And there's a feeling of oh slowdown guys is much. And this is why came you. But the problem with Boston is what stand mentioned earlier when LeBron went to Cleveland he went to a team that was terrible and made them into championship contenders in champion his team. Kyrie's team. Yes. It was Kyrie's team. That was terrible. Yes. But when Kyrie went to Boston he had the misfortune of getting hurt and those guys going on and being successful. And so now, even though LeBron's wars. Resonate with despite his terrible past. Now, the the tables of turn. And now Kyrie's words don't resonate with the young guys. But at least they have a legitimate excuse why. Because hey, we been successful. We went to game seven of the conference finals. I love the lack of self awareness in it. I love the rationalization and the idea that Kyrie Irving says to himself, I'm so frustrated with this. It's not about me. Clearly, it's about all these guys. Let me go and call the LeBron's why? So we can both talk about the value of having Kevin love in your locker room. So that everyone just criticizes him like. So maybe he'll do something in Boston where they trade for Kevin love, you know, Boston would love to have Kevin love where they can trade some of those assets for Kevin love. So the Kyrie Irving can have someone he can blame. Yeah. I mean, look at mean hit on it that team was pretty good before he came and they played very well without him. The situations are not the same. And look I raise a great player. I think he's one of the best point guards in the league. He's not LeBron James understand that even if you become a great player a great leader. You're not LeBron James. Stretching for some ads. It's too bad. We ran out of time there. I was really hoping to hear STAN Van Gundy thoughts on the government shutdown. Instead, we will get his hot nuggets in your face and the next segment. Gyco presents unhelpful home improvement. How To's a slippery bathroom floor can result in expensive hospital bills? So today, I'll show you how to cook a serious fall by filling your bathroom with thousands of plastic balls. Just nail a piece of plywood across the doorway and dump in two thousand multicolored plastic balls, you could try to protect yourself with a bathroom full of plastic balls or you could get liability coverage through the Geico insurance agency. Visit Geico dot com and see how a forcible renter's insurance can be done Libertad. Is there any other athlete from any other sport that you can remember that played all the time with a toothpick? No, it's crazy. Nobody would do that today. And I was one of those cinnamon toothpicks. Remember, I used to have those in grade school used to love those tin foil flavored traded stormtroopers and stuff for those toothpicks those flavored spicy toothpicks to guts. Troopers like the little stormtrooper Addy action. Great trade in high school. I got reprimanded. A mother got called in. Because I traded some fed kid. I gave him a single dorito for a stormtrooper action figure and it became like, rob them. Yeah. I was thirty five years old VC's live at our show with this two guys on ESPN radio. You guys always bring it strong for us. When we requested it's overwhelming and it's flattering. So you've made me podcast. The biggest thing going overnight in terms of subscriptions. We thank you for that. We do not take that for granted the way that when we ask you to support something you support it like that. Where all of a sudden mean times podcast is the number one thing I head of everything yesterday. So thank you for that Amine, just walked through the bar here at the Cleveland or that we have and he's raving about weird, Al Jankovic. We'll get to that in a second. Who was that yankovitch I called him Jankovic because a former univer-? -versity of Miami athletic director Sam jank of it. He also goes pick not. No, you should probably go buy vich. But he goes by weird. Al yankovic. Yeah. It's a big one. We'll get to that. In a second. Thank you guys for all your contributions. But I'm told before we get to the nuggets here. I'm told that we have some sort of special guest to it's called in here and want us to stop everything we're doing and take his call. So who's on the line plays a little Daniel? This is yours truly Mr. the always a pleasure to be on the program. Thank you fake Howard Cosell. Why are you calling? I am calling in because today. January seventeen two thousand nineteen would have been the seventy seven th birthday of the true goat. The greatest of all time. Hamad alley and is name is Muhammad Ali. And I understand you remembered little James Earl Jones and Betty wakes. But they, but you were remiss and remembering the likes of the champion of all time you called in just reprimand me. I forgot kid rock Jim Carrey and Steve Harvey too. About those guys. I have to tell you something. And I know you would appreciate this Daniel because you are a great historian. But it really was that day in London when we went and saw alley Kansas. My cell clay at the time by little Henry Cooper in London down and I saw him. And I said, I we got to get him back to New York. We got him into eighteen studios. And of course, the rest is history. The next thing we've fighting in neighborhood against the women we shops list. All right, whatever seventy seventh birthday. Muhammad ali. Happy birthday to him. I don't care. Good luck. Is he done or does? He have anything else. Does he have any more material this fake Howard Cosell? Okay. Good time now for standing Gundy's hot nuggets in your face. Not exactly. Top MBA nuggets owning Thursday show. The thing that was my fault. That was my fault. I was three seconds early. I know when that's supposed to be played. And I did it at the wrong time stand Gundy, what is the theme for your hot hot nuggets two games last night show. What the NBA has become. Oh, wow. All right. Let's see what the NBA has become a commodity and STAN Van Gundy got no time for your threes. I hope this isn't another disguised you talking about how many threes everyone shooting number three's stand. It actually is then. But here we go Golden State beat New Orleans one hundred forty seven to one forty Brooklyn beat Houston one forty five to one forty two. It was the first time ever that four teams of scored hundred forty or more in the same night and that comes night after four of the six games were decided by thirty plus points. Another NBA record. That's got to better than that. Number two. Hot nugget in your face from STAN Van Gundy. Golden State combined to set an NBA record with forty three made threes Steph curry led the way by going seven eight three in the third quarter on the way to nine made threes this came one night after the warriors made ten threes in the first quarter on the way to an NBA record fifty one points and finally stand van Gundy's hottest nugget in your faces Houston in Brooklyn set an NBA record with a combined one hundred six three point attempts in Houston, shattered, the record for a single team with seventy three point attempts. Breaking the old record of sixty one Houston shooting more threes than twos for the second straight season. Steph curry stuff, I don't even know who I'd put second place for greatest shooter of all time given how much distance put between himself and anyone. Else? Have you seen the stats? I mean on what he's doing from thirty to thirty five feet. Percent. I think that's ounce. Low is do you have it? Right. I thought I read fifty four percent. But it's something absurd. It somehow. It's like, I think forty five percents in the forties. But it still it's incredible. What he shoots the distance. He shoots from and shooting off the dribble. He he alone has changed the entire game in the NBA. There was a point. I believe it was two seasons ago where he was shooting better from thirty out than Zaza Patil shooting at the rim. I'm not I'm not effective feel percent on my his pure Rothfield percentage was higher from thirty feet out. Thousands was in the paint, right? Donlevatar? What's to stop other? What it sounds like a dumb one box plus mine. Yep. About rings, plus minus. I mean. Okay. Six for MJ three for LeBron. Stugatz. What lebrons rings in a box. And then put 'em. Jay's rings in a box. Tell me who has more. That's. Us three by the way. Our show with this two guys on ESPN radio. So Tobias Harris is on with us. Now, STAN Van Gundy freighted forum and then traded him. So that should be awkward just sent him away. I don't know what that conversation was like maybe Tobias hairs, what do you stand? Why you cringe in what's going on? What happened? You're you. What's the matter? Well, I don't have many guys in this league that I like and respect as much as Tobias. And that's by far the hardest. Personnel move. I've ever been a been a part of because to buy not only a great player. But a guy who was totally committed to being a great player into the team. I mean, it was just it was just really tough. And he knows how much I respect not only as a player. But as a as a person in what he's all about. He looks legitimately crushed here about having had to trade you Tobias. Thank you for joining us. What would you tell us about having that conversation with STAN as you as you left? Thanks for having me on that was a tough conversation. Name coach great dialogue. Great relationship. Just in terms of going out and playing for the team and even off the floor just in terms of different things that were going on in life and knows is tough combo because he's one of my favorite coaches that I've been able to fight for and such a hard working coach. So like, you know, that's the part of life in a game. And it's no, no sour milk. We just we still still communicate to this day. So you know, it's all love at the end of the day. Also, all love is your relationship with Bo please tell us as much as you can about how interesting that dude is because you guys have become friends. You've got you know, you projects together. Like, what can you tell us about Bowe ban that people don't know? Great guy lie all around just a mazing person to be around had a great spirit never has a bad day and just a funny character tube. So be on two different places in the world. I'm able to show him a little bit of my culture. He's able to show me some of his and we kinda just have become really good friends off of that. And just you know, he's a he's a character. And a funny guy to be around. So he bring you he brings a good joy to everybody that he's he's around head stand to buy. Do we have any new episodes of the Toby and Bobi show resent only an off off-season thing? Well, he's a it was funny because the other day he came to me he goes to show go on. You're right. This show. Does is so have to go on. So right now when we get some free time, we're we're going to sit down and talk about some little things you do. And and then go from there because a lot of people like that we had a lot of fun with it. And it was cool. So for sure to show will go on I want to follow up questions here. One what part of his culture. Did he show you that you found most memorable or startling and which side of your culture? Did you show him that made him be taken aback? Yeah. What part of what he sells me is like he's tried to sell some music from his culture and like hip hop from this culture, kind of which is hard for me to kinda understand because speak the language at all. That makes. Yes. But what I tell show him a lot of things he should just come to ask me like who's this singing the song, or what type of food is that or you know, things things that of all different things. Like, I've shown them different rap artists that I came love listening to and fee starts listening to them. And then he okay. Like the other day. He recited biggie lies at I was like, all right. I see both like I know you do that. So it's all good over the line. Can you can you repeat them not on air? Now. Can't we saw we saw. So we can win on. The big top invis- this aside some lives in there. So I was like okay both. I see can we do this. Can we guessed the line? And you can just say yes, or no that way we'll be in trouble. But you won't be. No, let's not that way. No. That seems. That seems. You are someone who has changed your eating habits a lot. I'm just curious. Can you explain to us? What was Tobias Harris doing the most wrong before in terms of extreme measures to take care of his body? And what is the most right that you're doing now as you realize, oh, I've gotta fix this. I can't just eating McDonald's all the time. Yeah. What was Donald hall? But you know, it was a probably like three years three and four years into the league. When I I just kind of locked in realize a healthier way of eating and that was kinda cutting out different different fats that were in my diet cutting out like, you know, I was like a heavy bread eater and things like that. So just finding different ways to create more of a of a plant based type raw diet where I'm able to get different fats from cleaner type foods, and I think the biggest change was just hiring a private chef to to make these meals for me understanding everything that he's putting in and the Queen away eating so on the verse type either like I like eating food. But I know the foods that are going to help me with my performance, and and make me just just more. It had more energy and a better feeling each and every day. Stan what do you have? No, I book Tobias, and I connected on a lot of different issues. But we're not very similar on diet. Then. Yes. Yeah. By was it. I see some lady tonight should be having my baby baby. That could've been alive. Nice guests are you do you wanna talk a fresh prince of Bel-Air with him because your what is your most substantive fresh prince of Bel Air obsession, we stop on it every time. Yeah. Of course, every time that it's on TV like, you you just have to you know, that's one my favorite. So you gotta stop everytime. Then I don't know if you know this but Tobias his former team Stanley Johnson Will Smith is the greatest actor of all time. If you had those conversations with them. I have not. But he I would say all time. But he's he's up there. I'm a Big Joe Washington fan. But you know, for sure Will Smith is definitely up there for me on my list. What's your favorite fresh prison? You know, I'll see one of my favorite ones is like the last up. So where oh, actually no not that I something. So it's a warm where the motion scene will and uncle fail where he's hugging on tough loss father. Yeah, that's my favorite one. 'cause that was like that was real, you know, even background of the scene, and we'll talk about it later on. I I was like that. Really? Did you cry Tobias Tobias Harris cry did you cry while watching that team? No, I didn't cry. I didn't cry. Stan go ahead. Hey tobias. You know, I've been telling Dan before you're one of the best read people in the NBA always had a good book. My wife just showed me something from your social media thing. The other day, you had a stack of books there that you were recommended the people what are you reading right now? Right now, I'm getting a book called the power of habit. And but that that's about is just pretty much have is that we make on a daily basis how triggered to make those habits. And and you know, like you said, I'm a big reader. I read a lot of different books start the season and even in the off season. But part of the reason why I'm a big reader. I've always China learning educate myself, even more on a daily basis of just things that I may not have learned about in school and things that are, you know, training in this world now too. So just being as blunt of cannon get involved different things to help better me as a person so not. So that of the best way to get that is reading books and knowledge is power. And I truly believe in that. And it's been books have been huge for me. So I always bring a book into the Rena a lot of people have been seeing that lady and being inspired by that. So I think that's awesome. That people are now going to go out pick up some books, and I was happy to share that list with with a lot of people social media that that really responded well to that. So it was cool. Blake Griffin saw. Steve bommer when he ran away from his extended hand the other day, right? I don't know. Probably I guess. Shocking. Comments from Tobias Harris put it on the ESPN scroll right now Tobias Harris rips Blake Griffin for snubbing a billionaire owner. Steve Balmer, quote, probably I guess probably. I guess thank you Tobias. We got the only thing we need from you and soften you up with books. Tobias. Thank you for being with us. We appreciate it. Guys, donlevatar good work today that was a fun show. Stugatz. It was also intergalactic -ly stupid VC's live at our show with this two guys on ESPN radio. We're going to update the polls in a second. No, Stu gods today. He's vacationing he will be back next week, STAN Van Gundy and amino Hassen in with us at lebatardshow, Instagram and Twitter. But before we do that that story at Michigan state as if Michigan state hasn't botched enough things enough ways the idea that their president is resigning. Didn't they ought Michigan state already fired its previous president, right? So they fired the that the flames on that sexual assault. Story involving the the gymnastics physician that has ended up in you know, him now in jail for the rest of his life. Stan when you hear those comments by the new Michigan state president who is now out he's resigned and the the resignation has been accepted your thoughts. Go where well, he's a former governor of the state and the students protested win they hired him and the tone-deaf board of trustees at Michigan state went ahead with it anyway. And then he proved even more tone-deaf than the board. I mean to come out and say the victims are enjoying spotlight. Like, what did he think they set around and said, how are we going to get attention? Well, I know let's try to get ourselves sexually abused first. And then we can go out and talk about it like, this is one of the most idiot things that I've heard and there's a lot of the things being said around the country in these days, but this might be as. Bad as anything here. The quote, you've got people there hanging on. And this has been there are a lot of people who are touched by this survivors who haven't been in the spotlight in some ways, they've been able to deal with this better than the ones who have been in the spotlight who are still enjoying that moment at times, you know, the awards and recognition and it's ending. It's almost done. And the only thing that's ending. An almost done is his reign as president at Michigan state as soon as all the paperwork gets filed because Michigan state has accepted that resignation. He's telling them to deal with it. It's funny. He's saying basically, these people these kids who were exposed to a monster through the institution of the university get over it. All right. We get it. Okay. That's basically what he's saying. Oh god. You'll so long. Why are you still in up on this? That's his attitude decides, exactly right. And look they're never gonna be over it. That's the thing. I mean, what this guy did Larry Nassar in the trauma. He put these women. Through they weren't women at the time. They were young girls. They're never gonna be over it. It'll never be done for them. They're going to deal with this the rest of their lives in his insensitivity to the whole thing disqualifies him from any role in public life. The weird thing anytime one of these things happen. I always sit as two levels of what a moron you are level. One is your more for not being sensitive to these people's plights. What happened right but level to is. You're not even smart enough to know to keep that internal Diallo. They'll say that out loud even behind close personally. I think they like spotlight don't say it in front of a microphone until the Associated Press this, and it just staggers me that someone who could be that could be hey exhibit, the behaviors of someone that dumb could rise to that level of power and influence in life. I you know, what it doesn't shock me man has been in politics is all white. He's a Republican politician lebatardshow on Instagram. Twitter at lebatardshow. If you want to vote on the polls. Is it completely normal eat Eminem for breakfast? Oh, wow. Lots of votes on this one sixty eight percent said no, oh, oh, oh, we heard STAN Van Gundy, we hit them where it hurts. We're judging you STAN Van Gundy for your breakfast Eminem the whole country is that's a defeat. Is there? More hawking at lights now because mart phones record ninety eight percent. Oh, wow. Ninety three percents that. Yes. Has there ever been a better voice in James Earl Jones, eighty four percent of the audience said, no? Sixty percent of crazy is Adam gay sow one one after that interview. Seventy six percent of the audience said yes that a coach interview would have been the highlight of the show absolutely one that interview. So if you weren't listening live at the time check out our podcast because he was tremendous. What is your favorite Ruben your house couple options here bedroo-, bathroom conservatory billiard room? Conservatory forty six percent of the audience that bedroom. Twenty two percent said conservatory and then billiard room bathrooms split sixteen percents. Those are the polls. Thank you, Billy. You know, how I know? That's a fixed guts because he pronounce conservatory correctly. That is correct. That is the only reason you can tell that that is a total imposter back there. So if you're just joining us, by the way, Eshelman thinks that the patriots beating being doubted. I mean, you smoke the chargers now, I did doubt you last week. But he's so and t-shirts better guns. Go ahead and bet against is. He talking about you specifically. Could be because I've been saying that Tom Brady is due to age for about five years now, and I have lost every year. And it's going to end up that we've always said father time is undefeated not anymore. All right. Brady's gonna win rate. Clearly at the end father time's going to be on his heels and an interception with Malcolm Butler, something's going to happen. Where father time is gonna lose at the end. And we're all going to be surprised because Tom Brady's grave is the only one that will never go on tendon because he's never going into it. He's gonna keep getting younger. Not even father time has as many postseason by week's in home. Gotta go on fourth down the length of the field. Stan we'll talk to you next week. That was a lot of fun. Thank you, sir. All right. It's really too bad. We couldn't get to his government shutdown talk. In fact, bring him back here for a second. Bring back for a second. I'm side connections. This connected. Just bring it back real quick. Just real quick here. Just still there. So that I could get his thoughts. Don't just leave. Don't leave just yet. Stan because I do wanna get all of your expansive thoughts as much as you would like to say about the government shutdown, and whatever it is. You were going to say about Republicans there, and whatever thoughts you have on Dick Cheney's movie. You could say everything you want right here. Plenty of time.

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Season 2-Episode 3  Tobias Churton

Thoth-Hermes Podcast

1:39:42 hr | 2 years ago

Season 2-Episode 3 Tobias Churton

"Who? So these podcast. Welcome to the world of the western Esa teric tradition. Friends and listeners finally finally thoughts Hermes costs these spec. Today's April the second twinkie eighteen Easter Monday and testing over three months now that you have not had an episode from. And I'm really sorry for. I will give you some explanations and an outlook into the future in a moment. But first to all of you have been listening to my podcast before welcome back and thanks for your. Ability to does who have come here for the first time. I also extend welcome greetings. My name is Rudolf. I am your host and sauce for me is podcast presenting to you. Extensive interviews with important authors and figures from the world of the western is today tradition as well as some using news, items, reviews, etc. Please do also visit our website WWW south Herbie's dot com that he's T H T H E R M E S, stop come where you're able to find all the show nodes, previous, episodes, etc. Etc. Hurry spot costs cannot only be found on this website. But also on apple podcasts spreaker, Stitcher Android berry and ever increasing number of podcasts providers. So you got no excuse not to find us. This is the third addition of our season three, and I'm happy to welcome. As our featured guest today. British author Tobias church him more about that interview later, but before we delve into the show, let me give you some personal feedback. And now some feedback. It is now about time to give you a few explanations. Why test taken me so long to produce? This new episode for you, and also what will be the development in the next few upcoming months. No warriors, not going to be long. But I feel I owe my listeners this I once again, thanks to everyone who inquired tau. I was doing. It is very nice to know that there are people out there who actually care and are waiting for the next show to come. Thank you all. What actually happens is very easy? I have unexpectedly gotten the opportunity for a complete professional change, which I was really waiting for to happen at some point. But what that means is that since December and still until the end of June. I have kind of to do two jobs at a time and debt, of course, consumes time and energy. See it's that easy at it will be over in about three months on top of that. I had a really bad flu of weeks ago, which kept me in bed for about ten days. And that created another kind of that clock as you can probably imagine. So what does that all mean for the future? I will try to produce my shows again now in a more regular way, but I cannot promise until the end of June. How many shows I will release to my best to three or four until then, but please be patient with him. Also, not all of the roads in the next three months will have news and reviews sections. I thought you would prefer to listen to an interview more regularly rather than having the whole thing various. I thought he would prefer to listen to interview more regularly rather than having to whole seeing very rarely also therefore this episode only contains to interview with our featured guest some used and one announcement after the interview which you should not miss ordered at. I can get it. Now out I hoped is really okay for you. Starting in July DOE, I would have more time for the cost than ever before. One of the reasons that I had wished to do such professional change was also to be able to do more publishing writing and producing my podcast to be more creative again after about ten years where my work had become more and more administrative. So sauce Hermes is alive and will even be more. So in the near future. I have a lot of plans to realize here and looking forward to all of this. Thanks again for your support. Talking about feedback. Why don't you use the opportunity and send me your thoughts and wishes these time especially for the future development of Hermes? I would be very happy to know about your ideas and also to realize them where ever possible. You remember how to get the feedback Toomey? Andrea go on the website and dare to the contact page where you can use the form to send your comment also on the website, which once again ace talked hurries dot com. You'll find a possibility to send a free voice message to me click on the respective tab on the right of the screen on any page to site. If you prefer you can also find me on Facebook or Twitter, just enter thought Thermes for your search or click on the respective Aikins on the web page, and then there is of course, also gold, Email info at thoughts Hermes dot com is the one to reach out to and I'm looking forward to hearing from you all. Last time. I had asked artists and musicians to get in touch in some of you, did I think I sent an answer to all of you. But I need to ask for your patience until I would have cleared by stack of things to do before. I can actually do something about it. But I promise I will. Okay. Now before we go and listen to the interview with today's guest Tobias jerkin. Let's listen to a piece of music. Many of you out. There have been writing to me to play more of the wonderful music of windy rule who so generously. Lets me her songs as intro and ultra musing to this show. Today. Therefore, I will play for you to more pieces by Wendy Roe will and those pieces also show how versatile artists cheese. I let us hear her some he. Not from her album, the notice eters. Gallatin? Me. Jay. On the at gut tree. The it and close. Fought of ma'am. Would. Wayne t rule with our some hit Kat. As always, please, go kashogi notes on the website to find more information about music and links to the pages where you can find more about it. Wendy's case lease do have especially look on her new full moon concerts, which streams for free on the internet at every full. Comes the interview. Bias church is not only a very prolific author. He's also world assault on Nostitz -ality and Britain's leading sculler into field of the western is Terry tradition and the upcoming into you also shows that he's clearly a Representative of the typically British humor. As always these interview comes to you in two parts of about thirteen minutes with some music in the middle. In the first part of our talk. We hear a few facts about his life, and how to buy become a priest, but somehow NAS this came to prevent that. Also, we learn a bit about the differences and similarities between British pub and niece coffeehouse at least for a writer. Curious well, then St. with at least two to bias jerky. I'm very happy to welcome on her report custody Tobias Churton to buy welcome. It's great art to speak to you. It's been some time that I was looking for to have you here to speak to you. And about yourself about your book said today in particular about your latest took deters appeared if you weeks ago on INA traditions. Welcome to sturgeon. It's it's pleasure to be here. Thank you. Thank you. Well, Tobias usually I start those talks with my guests by asking them a bit about their personal background. Of course. Many of our listeners must have read books by you have seen them have talked about them. But maybe they don't demand Tobias Churton behind it. At least as two point as it's relevant for your books, so Tobias what? Made you what you are today in that world of cults tears, Terry. What did you bring their soul? Been a terrible accident. Was never meant to happen. I was going to be a priest in the church of England, really. I I went to Oxford on a an exhibition as as an intended ordained person. So from the beginning all through my early life. I was sensitive to spiritual religious material. And when I went to Oxford. I mean, I was very questioning rationalist mystic, and we had to do an essay on the NAS ticks, which was meant to be sort of routine. Essay why the NAS tics were wrong. My conclusion when I started reading about them in detail was that I release that main critic was supposed to accept as an authority. I thought it's completely misunderstood what the NAS tics were doing. So that coincided with my dear friend, George. I was into mountaineering before I went to I went to Oxford mansion hearing society mazing somebody was talking about Alastair Croly. I was going to this will be an interesting parallel tremendous interview. Yeah. Exactly. And he he I never heard of him in my life and somebody Chris falling to of British climate famous. British Prime have been talking about crony as a hero is not only because he was the first led the first expedition on Ketu in the Himalayas, but in the in the character, but. Also because he was a great writer mystic, poet Malysz. Well, the combination of match nearing poetry was exactly music to me because I just come back from a climb in the Alps and have been writing poetry on the mansion, which was all very which was over about personal transcendence grasping the star charts the way while hoping return ac- and quite romantic said, he was somebody. I could relate to and this also altered my view, the author docs material I was having to study as a theological student. So I the would Esa teric didn't really mean I think if somebody said what esatern the time out of what they were referring to esoteric Clapton. So it was it set up. A totally new direction for me. And in amongst my studies I began to identify personally much more with this whole idea of great systems and the golden dawn system as interested in Irish play put it on bail called abscissa Mus. So it's pretty I'm Bisciste start with which was hardly satirically. It was probably satirical about whether human beings can transcend themselves, and what would it mean for human being to become God. And all this sort of things. I carried my skeptical and rationalist attitude into my NAS studies just as much as taken it into my more or less also docs, say logical studies. But overall, I still believe that human life is in Hans 't and made real and more meaningful. If people are can escape the ego. And but. Also, get the ego of others, which is more important and start thinking for themselves and sell them and find some spiritual liberation through. The there's avenues that are. Available to us poetry painting music. And so on. There is a way out or at least partially away. If not the world it self. There is a way out of the fiction of the people the fiction of politicians the fiction of controlling thoughts. Now, I was growing up in the beginnings really of television mind, domination of the western now the eastern world. So this issue about having a free mind was very important to me as I grew up and the free mind is at continue risk in the world. So to me this whole socal esoteric thing isn't about escaping from the conditions of the real world is confronting the conditions of the rail well with the consequences of its tendencies finding a way to keep the mind active and fresh and free the hearts and mind working in good order together. So that's the sort of thing that inspires me. It's vocation. It's vocation. I I'm not an abstract obstructed, scientists of the spiritual something, but that's just that is part of it the power to analyze. So essentially, a communicator experience, intellectual, experience spiritual experience and autism experience. And that's what my books motivated by profound. Desire to wake the keep the world from falling into unconsciousness. I find that extremely interesting approach. Also when you've at first VERA critical rationalist mystic. I think that balance between the two is something that I say, unfortunately, India's Tarik world is very rarely said and found probably and at the same time to eat seems that that dwelling of both sides is needed to achieve. What we are. You are crying to achieve. I mean. Yeah. I don't think that's transcending would bring along any progress for our material world. And that's why that sept- isn't isn't that the base of her medicine of nostrils, all those great movements. Well, I think. So many as Terek Cadrez in one form one St. of reaction or other. They're reacting against the modern world and the conditions of real life, and for many people to find simply import harbor the protects and partially from the rail existence is enough. So when they find something that constellation into they tend to wrap themselves up in it and swallow everything they given I found this particularly in the officle world where enormously contradictory viewpoints held with great enthusiasm, and people are prepared to believe practically anything that is different or strange, and I suppose esotericism can become a kind of narcotic. So when I entered this not that Esa teric universe of groups. And whether it was Rosa crucials as tech freemasons, NATO Templars followers of Hindu philosophies. One kind another for me, it was very strange company because my father was an engineer. I was brought up in a world of concrete reality. Even though even though we always in the family that was always respectful, God, the unknown and the mysterious and the unusual, and the we always as a family, we were always sympathetic unusual people who had strange ideas with the suspicion that the world the dominating world wasn't very interested in such people or was prepared to change his mind about things. So it was very I think I had a very balanced viewpoint position is always I keep my feet on the ground. My head firmly in the stars and beyond. If a wise and rules is starts. He needs us a point from which to rule them. And that's what planet of provides and roll roll of exactly for all the problems on us. It is a point it gives us a point of view, and you can't get anywhere in the world of Phil without a point of view. And if you abandon your point of view, you become vulnerable to any stronger idea that surround you or indeed stronger egos cipher, so my path has been a a quite a lonely one ready hung out with groups of various kinds, but not for long. May I ask you a personal question? You said you are more to solitary worker in that field because you don't stay with groups along which personally, I may say I understand very well because I'm a bit of the same. But when I say that I also mean about active is Teri occult work to you mean that or do you mean that just in your work as a writer and author and researcher? I'm sort of hermit I suppose, but I I'm not living on my. With my my family, and I don't represent any send out. I'm not speaking for other people. I mean, I I've known very striking individuals from all kinds of traditions, Niro, secretions officle, a medic masonic and so on and I've great respect for the best of those traditions. And I in fact, I celebrate them in my work. But I just think you should distinguish between the the freedom, the spiritual work can give you and the tendency of people to want to hide behind a large numbers of people. I think in this you prepared to back your ideas on your own from time to time. I don't think your ideas going to be very strong. If I say, well, I agree with this. Because because seven so said, it's all people who signed to load the thirties in their work for everything. They write the con-. You know, what is it? They said of Jesus he spoke with authority, a not as the scribes to speak from thority meaty, really gone through the thing yourself, and you put yourself you tested, the ideas, and you and you go with it. I'm not saying that I've reached out to the truth on any issue. I'm not I'm constantly moving towards greater clarity about truth is when the keys the key unlocks the door. Then you've got truth. If you if you if you're struggling with the problem and the door does you hit on a truth? You may not have his on all of it. But if you don't pass it, and you go into the next room, and and you deal with you get accustomed to that kind of light and atmosphere, and then you learn about that in you. Ready to move onto the next one. Most people I in my experience in the tend to find a room they like and Doug realize that it was it's actually. It's a it's a vestibule. It's just waiting. Knife has a habit of pushing you forward or if you won't move forward. You kind of slide you just go to sleep. It's a bit like being on a mansion if you want to stay alive you've got to keep. Yeah. Right. I mean, I'm not one of these people is is can only allowed. I love company, I love sharing ideas. But I also loved the freedom to leave which is why I love the British pub. I I lived in Sweden for a time and in Sweden people around people's houses, and they have dinners natual. And an all of I never liked that. Because you can't just get up and go anyone. Yeah. The same mystery with like of Yeni needs coffee houses, where it's been said that all those big books of the early twentieth century, which have been written Nubia have been ridden. Because the same thing people can go there, but they are in the midst of people, and they still alone and can leave whenever they want. This is the genius of the good good environment. When you got that freedom to stay freedom to meet people freedom to leave freedom become again. That's what it's all about. It's almost an issue me of what freedom is in practical terms, but they. The. But I right alone. Obviously, I could write nosy room that no problem at all. I go into a noisy pub, and unless it's getting violence or something I can write quite happily in my in my in the space of my mind, but writing is a solitary thing, and that's about as much solitary won't, really. You single single-handly have just defined freedom. His confidence. Yeah. But I would like to take on another day finishing. We were using the word Terry those of us just right now and often I'm looking for a better word to define white. I mean with because at least I feel it is terrorism as Terek has been abused will last two twenty thirty years and became a different meaning together. And then then is that were cult and the western is Teri tradition or whatever. How would you either define as terrorism? Or would you use Rodman different words to define? The combination of nasty her medicine, freemasonry, etc. Etc. What's the terminology? That is correct for you. It's more or less NAS tick, some sorta and other anything is teric to anybody relatively. So if somebody's talking to me about the experimental calculus in mathematics, that's perfectly esoteric to me because requires initiation into the mystery of subject, and we're talking about forms of knowledge, which require in an initiation now, obviously, if you're talking about true as terrorists you're talking about spiritual progress in order to grasp the beauty of an idea, you got to go through certain amount of experience before you realize just beautiful that is, you know, we're never going to see the outside world in the way that a man who's been in prison for twenty years is going to sit. So how you prepare for an experience than depends on experiences you've had already. So as a terrorism is not about a kind of knowledge it's about how you've approached that knowledge. The end result of an Esa Terek in maybe a perfectly playing experienced to another purse. May not be as territorial. It's all a question of how long you've been getting into it. Now, it just goes with the word mystery was Derian by definition is something the more you go into the more. There is to go into and as terrorism is obviously intended as opposed to greater knowledge of the truth of life. And that's what it's about. But I don't know about whether the what s the Terry is abused in England people around the cynical, and they were call anything. Esa Terry which they want to get interested in. There's no into Joe pride in the in the middle class English. You know, they they always like to pretend the they don't entertain ideas. So I don't know with us in Austria, Germany, I know people tend to pride themselves on the seriousness of the thinking, whereas very different from in the English situation is we we produce us how likely we take things. But you know, there's always the side of perception and the side of reality. Who knows what reality is at any given point. If you want to build a bridge, you have to rely on the sense of reality people have gone before you and everything we do is is the product to them stakes. Yes, it in engineering us the case. And I suppose it must be true spiritual. Experience. People have made plenty of mistakes in the past I presume that will carry on making mistakes and from that we can make a better job of it. I've I've rice about how is currently for example, because I think he he had learnt a lot of the mistakes. It's paradoxical is accused of making so many himself. But my my view is the most advanced as terrorist off the twentieth century, and is still I think in the twenty first century still out there ahead of the rest. And to me, he tells me esotericism really is about and is it simply about gaining clarity. On vision about our experience. And that's really what is about. It's a progressive state of becoming less blinkered. It's not about quarrying. Exotic information I presume who have built the pyramids had a very clear for his time. But the people who write about the building of the pyramids strike me as having very little Fabrizio. A tool, but some you know, because I didn't think they could build one themselves. And if you go into right about the pyramids presume, you should be able to build your own apps, the scale model at least, but from scratch he wanna write about pyramids, Bill one. And I think it's the same about if you've got gotta write about God or angels or these sort of things meaningfully. It does help if you've had a certain degree of experience about what it is your writing about. And I think I think a lot of writing necessary cycle esoteric writing is simply fantasies or their best belief. So that like to think I was like to establish the history of the thing. Clearly, I like to establish a clean way of thinking about it, which I mean, I want to take the reader on a step, you know, stepped journey that I've been on and get to a real result. Yeah. I was. When I was teaching university. I we said bring me at inside. Bring your huddled masses said bring me on as difficult questions at anyone's. I enjoy the more difficult question. The more on with painful, then I like to undertake things that are that have become problematic. I was crowed is a case in point. You know, anyone can write about the hermit is drives Justice. But what's there to say because he's so clear himself in MAC writings have virtue of clarity. Whoever wrote them been through a lot. It's like this famous dispute has Shakespeare lift or not who cares works are here. And whatever the name of the guy was wrote in the are great. Yes. If he didn't exist we'd have to invented. Yes. Who wrote the shots who wrote the Vader's is always going to be somebody legendary Crawley's interesting courses neck because he wrote his own classic. Differently. You have crossed my life. Several times already as a reader. I came across your books, which then windy appeared when exactly at the right time for me. I think very strongly, for example, the invisibles the book, the great book about the Rosa cruise instead to you that you wrote, and then there were others like, for example, rod recently, the cult Perez or then William Blake, biography, etc. You have taken on vast subjects important subjects for years Terry world, and it seems always obvious and clear and easy for you. What brings you to those subjects and what motivates to write about them? And how come that? They that those books become so open minded and wide in their subjects. Well, I suppose suffered with them in before before I arose about them. As usual. I mean, I I don't want to flicked suffering. My reader. So I go through all that foyer. And then when I when I'm clear, and it's become plays me that I've reached the point appointed of understanding than our rights. So why did I write about rose cruises because it was thrown at me I had some involvement for quite a lot of years with Joost Redman of the written library in Amsterdam. They will tech philosophic I've met and he wanted made join the electoral Rosa Cristiano, which is was the body that he was a member of which was founded by them and young later in the ninety twenties thirties, we've Hannie start. Hi. And he thought that that group really tied up the whole business all resolutions catheters NAS ticks into one systematic doctrine, which is the doctrine of that particular body electoral immerse Christiana and the approach to the subject of that group raised. Many questions in my mind, which I had to grapple with and I was very very lucky very lucky indeed to to encounter Carlos Gilliat was as the Spanish skull who introduced me to the latest research that he'd done onto the origins the rose creations. I wanted to know everything about I was back in the is is fascinated by the Jains of the brotherhood of the rose cross aid. It was so amazing stories. I called it. The greatest story untold I still believe that base origin of the resignation women is totally engrossing. It's amazing, and you had these wonderful wonderful characters from the late sixteenth and early seventeenth century. Who's the breadth of whose intellectual vision, and the spirituality is stunning to compare with people today. They're almost different breed of human being not only do they show numerous personal courage. Great phys. Ical forty two. They lived in a world we most century aging. And so on when travel was extremely dangerous very cumbersome. They were relied on people's libraries for their information to I'm thinking people like Johann Valentine's Day and Tobias s and your own Australian, Adam Haslemere, and these I just they they amaze me, I don't want it to rise and give them their proper proper respect property you and bring bring realize into the resolution mystery, which is not a mystery as people written about it. It's history. These people were trying to achieve concrete social development. And of course, the moment I got into this you mmediately find their team groups round the world who still conveying the most mythological trash about Rosa, gracious, the tragedy of which is to obscure, they obscure the real work of real minds and the under great brilliant of resignation. Experiment is lost in asking. Intelligent, people to believe very stories about invisible beings coming back and forth, and the com- the Sanja and the always stuff, which is myth logical and legendary now Mitha legend on ways of telling spiritual meaningful events in a manner that can be absorbed as a storing, but the trouble with masonry and NIA restorations missile is the story is presented as history. And if you question this, they treat you like the Vatican treated Galilea. What the question of fundamentalism when you there is a necessary fundamentalism, which is I've just run into the good. Jeff people. I think always people keep very quiet in the world until you write about their subject on what they think is subject. And then suddenly you find that these so-called free spirits who've been enlightened haha come out with immense aggressive to dang. You don't realize that? I'll God this avatar this guru who use a question, whether George Jeff was not anything you have not been through the good Jeff transformation. You have. No, right. And you go with the resolutions because some Christian oriented thing the the criticism was less there than the. Luckily, people actually grateful for Kern historical treatments on the resolution story. My view is the spirit spirituality needs. No nonsense around. Tool searching experience once you realized that it is the clarity of the truth. That's what we're aiming for should welcome knowledge from all aspects in an open hearted and proper way and followed Jesus who in the words of Hassemer gives us the the great secret, which is seek and usual find I was my father was just say that to me all the time you say Toby c-can can usually find new have to go looking if you've accepted, something simply accepted it. There's a touching job like quality to that. But he's also very dangerous. We see in the far east, which you've had millions of people accepting pathetic pathetic of Mosey, Don or some of the potentates in a second class army uniform standing up and dictating their best thoughts, which usually know those two masses. Oh, yes. We'll follow narrow scare the wits. You know, you had to Europe. I don't fit the got up on podium and people. Yes, yes. Yes. He's say. And unfortunately, this whole thing about save is the problem if you've identified one figure is say, they're of your soul. You know, you become quite hysterical. When this figure is treated as subject to analysis, if only these figures are subject to Alice's, you get what I'm saying. Absolutely. And that's probably also the danger of those. Let's call them is Teri groups to make it simple that a group is much easier to be many divergent exactly then then the single mind. That's that's why you gotta keep keep a clear head keep your head above the water in this field. Now, I'm not a debunk. I'm not one of these cynical materialist journalists who thinks that anybody talks religion soul is probably mad already impression. I think this is the game this ability to combine different viewpoints. I wish to find the true dignity in the true integrity of spiritual thing is on give them their due and say to the world today Bigler important, they shows a dimension of understanding, which isn't remote from on. The is very close to on these had. I personally think that though that the devil never rest as light even a lot. A lot of the tragedy of the loss of Terry molly's. Thanks to this terrorists. Who misunderstand the concept of keeping secret all gets kit. She Jesus did give some on the map. See also spoke in jets to smaller numbers of people. You can't tell great truths from the marketplace. Anyway, at any when it comes to trays. It's not something easily communicable in conventional says, that's true. You need your mind mind books. Very good. As the book is goes, you can get involved with the mind of the rights. All all the mind the writer at least was in winning was writing. I am interested in real spiritual Enuma nation that is my aim. If I can't find it then I don't claim to offend. I didn't say I didn't pretend some subjects. I look forward to understanding much better. I mean at the moment, I'm doing a lower research on advice to the danced schools of India. Because I I'm really fed up the way people write about Indian floss fears, if it was kind of ring-fence with so much respect that we can't just look at it like any other sort for that annoys me. There's also a tendency and again as tackles to regard anything that's a sanskrit word as being untranslatable, and it will be rather bad form to translate it. And see what it means that I keep finding that infanticide of the the Danta schools are so similar to the Alexandria Mustaq's. That both can eliminate one another. And that's what I intend to do. I think ultimately truth must be simple, or at least experience something simple. There is a thing in the western world relates esoteric too complex it to something difficult and complex. Now. This is this is quite wrong. The preparation of the mind for illuminates truth may involves some some complexity misery bats play like learning any. But the results must be simple. Yes point, very good point Christoph basil who was had a wonderful, libraries Salzburg. He used to write about the virtue of the simplest simplicity. Very interesting, man. Christopher is letting I think he's libraries the basis the university ivory since day. He was he was very much involved with hundred nineteen hundred eighty and I think it's texted him probably a couple of other of these friends that we the whole story of down. Call and the going to the eastern search Christian Rosencrantz CR CR as to the eastern such snakes to basil. And some of his friends someone. That's fascinating. There's a strong Austrian store. Scientists of sudden realize. The interesting to listen to Tobias. I think what I often like about those interviews is when we suddenly depart from the talk about your cold. There's terrorism you have it and all of this becomes suddenly part of our daily life. When we realized that daily life is influenced by Terek sold. But also carry thinking takes its source in our lives, and he's not just some farfetched thing. When you rule is now back again, and this time after having son about a Greek goddess, hey county, she will present an upper female mythological figure to us. We should steer to cultists. She interprets her song in from her album world between worlds. And. Send. Ding. Wendy rule seeing about and to INA the Queen of the Samaritans KYW's. And now we return to his church in and we'll talk about his latest book, and this the Croly in America a fascinating Thome like many others written by Tobias. And that's the Croly played an important part in Tobias life. So the book is at the center, but not exclusive topic about Crowley here. Tobias is so knowledgeable in many fields. It is fascinating to talk to him. And he has a clear vision about the difference between TV and books and why it is important to hold a printed book in hands. Welcome back for part two of the interview with Tobias church. Let's get to NS Croly. You have written three books about him already. And before also parts of books where you were co author of several books the first book that was completely dedicated to my think was biography that you published. That's right. And then later there was that book about him in Berlin. Which I think is a very fascinating chapter off not only Croly, but history journalist in Germany's and Tarik history of the German speaking world extremely fascinating. And now very very recently. This new book that just came out LS Croly in America, art, espionage and sex magic in new world. So before we go to the last volume, why has Crawley been so important for you in your publication life? Why do you come back to him over and over again? I suppose partly because I mean, I had to I suffered a lot of trouble when I was Oxford as when the college chaplain found out that I was interested in crony. And he's my soul is in peril. And were efforts to get me out of college. Because. As I was supposed to be coming Christian priest. Crowly happens reputation of being antichrist. But it now struck when that most of the philosophical school of Oxford and Cambridge and most of the scientific large the physics Bala, biology schools will also anti Christian. They just didn't say, but they were indifferent indifferent to Christianity. So it was kind of dot why should create trated. Unlike any other scientists, well that is the point is because he wears a biologist studies cells molecules and the workings at bodies cronies study was was the nature of spiritual human potential other words, he's he's walking over the church's traditional territory, and therefore is much more dangerous than a mea scientists. Being his former very is missed attention regarded as much more serious. He parroted this in south in the thirties. Students were were to be sent down. I kicked out of the university in the thirties because that invited Croce to give a lecture to poetry sought. And this was led by the by the Roman Catholic chaplain. Ronald knox. You said that. Cravey's reputation was so bad that it will bring the university into disrepute for students to even think about discussing his art is now this seems to me to be such an interesting point in history of the rejection of a magician the likes of which hadn't been seen in Oxford since Giordano Bruno arrived in oxygen fifteen eighty three. Three hundred fifty s early quite amazing. One of my did shoot at seen Cronin. Straits in Oxford in nineteen thirty and was a fright was afraid of it. Because he'd been written about as a murderer cannibal a wide slight dried a votive site. It doesn't get much worse. Even they s in Germany was was frightened in to a degree of to cry. I mean, it's quite extraordinary this man as chief this amazing reputation. So as I haven't knows an I'd read his confessions, which book was republished in seventies in England. Interesting Bursch, not but edited by silence and grants. The confessions started Andrea that not told me it was one of the best things I've ever read in my life. I was into T aren't lost rate is rising very very fine writer, an either crow you some the best prose read my life. And certainly one of the best thinkers on metaphysical subjects. The image of credit was so black. And yet the Lightman I was getting was so light. That I was always a wear that. I wanted to get to the truth. And I didn't get a director optic until. Around nineteen ninety. Was going to philmont Croly for channel four. And I started researching his action papers Warburg institute and the more. I read the more brilliant more specter had for and I didn't find anything evil, the wicked all in like is if you're reading the rice criminal somebody was psychotic or even man, you know, Dottie or just a bit crazy. These ROY since were rational, they were Sam they were humor's they were mind, they they will not unsure prejudice. They will reason you just lots of this. Spend time we had. So there was I felt whenever seeing injustice against figure especially a writer. I do want to do something. Hell and at the time the people who are into Croly were dismissed by the mainstream is just new age Nassar's the. Rating wants to freemasonry, of course, dismissed crony. They wouldn't lesson. Join the grand lodge England, even though he'd been initiated into my sprint. Paris. Ninety three the previous librarian at the grand lodge, light rain in London. When I was when I was working with British free most remove he had destroyed all the letters cronies, grandma. I mean, this is how minded wonderfully truth loving, these people you threaten them and make truth, brotherly, love and charity goes out the window. You're always doing what what crazy done. I wanted to. I started researching in great tips and that research went on for a long time. TV wouldn't wasn't interested in truthful presentation crime in? It's too useful. To have this bogeyman. Idea. Well, you can't live for these people because they come and go under truce always comes out and through eventu- eventually people who want to know will note. But if if the battles truth is worth fighting really know why we're talking to absolutely. But I'm just saying that you get impression that the big media who are out there to make big numbers. And on that into. It's incredible. Most most of them would finally be hard pressed passer difficulties nation, philosophy or anything that you quite real mental Josie most than me I worked in television ten years. It was a desert of that kind of intelligence, which is interesting full of lots of what we saying. The smart asses clever at puzzle advancement, and they read those such as when streets them Vonts. But but it is not a world of truth seekers. Truth has nothing to do. It's what it's what works now when you think of an organ like television, which is so profoundly significant a development nothing like the night. The I want to get hold it with governments. I believe the Nazi party at first television service in Berlin and probably would have liked to extend it at university. So it's a power thing television. So I learnt eight Serbs powers, whoever those powers may be in any particular place. The tragedy is ordinary people rely on it in the way, they rely on a supermodel. Just want books is important because are still the main the main way of getting free information. And I've heard about like what you said earlier that when you the book, you kind of get into state of the mind of the right rats time when he was writing that book, and I find that I've never heard it said like that. But speaks very clearly to me. And I think I think that's that's why books actually let me just say books are coming back now. So maybe there is some hope people say somebody says to me, I read your book on kindle, I say didn't you read a proof? I write books not pages of Bryant is produce or to participating production. Book is telling me, I read the script. But you haven't seen the cell. Good book is itself. It's manic object in which in which the mind of the writer, and whatever genius. The publisher has to present combined by the craftsman in an object which hold with your. Ams, touch and are physically involved as well as mentally and all your five cents through that turns the book is were presented what difference? I do. Judge a book by the cover the fried. I'll do. Even if it's cheaper juice can still judge whether they care about what's. He's like the gift. It may look is loving you. So Croly was a great writer. I believe he's a writer's writer, he's not really a popularizer, although he could write magazine articles. And did do you could write a popular? And all it's quite capable of doing that certain LX Churton wrote the novel, which I find on your where pitch. That's you will. Yes, I'd write novels all time. If I didn't have other things too, right? Book. So I'm holding that Buchen hand at the moment. I'm very lucky stock on the kindle, it's here in my in my hands as the Croly in America. And that's a very exciting time in in the life. I don't know if it was exciting for him for curl himself. Probably was for us who painful, but it was certainly certainly, but for us who research him or who want to know about him are who are interested in his life. And where many of his ideas came from? I think it's an extremely important part of his life. Would you agree? Yes. It should I suppose somebody could have done it before. I mean aspect to the story while she'd been told before never systematically in in this way, ending property tale. I really wanted to get inside what was going on. He was in America, so long he had seventy connections with America so much of his life that it really is a separate story to invest into a very strongly after that this will. Yeah. Well, the the whole sexual legacy shows and nowadays the people who care most possibly possibly arguably care most about Croly are in America, certainly the OT. Oh, which was founded by Austrian wasn't it. Call Calva exact they industrialist his they organization the he affected me founded the idea anyway, he didn't really didn't really reach formulation until after his death in nights. No five but that now is based in America. So. That does say something about the United States. Whatever else you may say that they're offering them loving people in America, and there are people with spiritual ideals, they're active. They're very glad of it. And it's nice to know that Croly has made a contribution there. It's been an infamy as Englishman to learn about America. And I wanted to pour that into the book as well as. America. Again, we talk about the media image of American history and all the rest of it. There's a lot of bad press in Europe. But a lot of it is ignorant. There isn't anything you can't find it America Goodall bat, but that leaves a lot of good. But it was a fascinating to write about American this period, which I think will be strange to most Americans today as well. And to show what America's light between nineteen hundred and we take story up to the mall to our times today. But the bulk of the story is when he was actually physically there, which is he left at nine hundred nineteen just as prohibition. Which was very good timing. Think on this. Because he he was saying if a man cannot guess what he will. You know, you're in a repressive state when a man cannot obtain what he will. And of course, that time the holstead act said, you you whether you will to say alcohol or not you will not be able to get it. And of course, it created the criminal the criminal fraternities America's still support that's through. But what I was introduced detail. Maybe it's the very first part of that book. That's he's short time. But still unimportant. I mean, Mexico. So when you speak about Americans, really demerits, not just United States, right? Well, yes. And I did have to think about how how much I go into the Mexican Sajjan. But of course, Mexico nine thousand nine hundred had a vast American interest in it the two American newspapers, the two main English-language newspapers, Mexico where American. Produced the freemasonry in Mexico that Thomas dominated the southern jurisdiction of the ancient accepted. Right. But it's in in Charleston. So those and of course, the the oil interest in Mexico is bringing Americans ins, well, but the leader of Mexico the time fulfill the ass trying to keep America a slight distance because he was much more interested in European investment, especially British investment, interestingly enough, and the Germans were also very interested in getting into the Mexico's well, and of course, it was Germans the providing eventually Diaz falls and the Mexican revolution. America Germans, providing weapons for the rebels, who's as well, as you say, the film, the wild bunch at the same that very interesting film. But Mexico nine thousand nine hundred in nineteen hundred when this crowd is is really another country to what we think of it today. Very different kind of world. Also wise crazy was there as I discovered. As as really kind of eccentric politician of the legitimacy cools quite incredible stuff that has never been any before because he arrives in Mexico under a complete pseudonym. Totally it invented identity is door. Achille Chevallier is door Achille, a rock, very interesting that raises all kinds of questions about Crowley's early politics and his early interest in espionage. It will exactly I was coming to that. Because you just mentioned that part, and somehow that bio graphically work that it is becomes at some point even a page Turner because and not us for just superficial reasons like espionage for what you just said. It's it's fascinating. How men Croly as he was always got into those incredible situations are put himself into those incredible situations. Well, the story is pure Nash for the British secret services, then etc. Which almost led to his demise. At some point be good Louis became so the interest for him. How far where you able to get the information. How far too we know today? What really happened? How much is still part of something we have to admit we don't know what how much of the truth to be known today about that part of his love. Now, my books are considerably more than we knew before. And I just go to lesser in the wool beg institute, which actually put in the biography, which makes it absolutely clear that the British naval intelligence department did note the Croly was working in New York to subvert the Jomon propaganda cabinet propaganda cabinet led by the Johm bust of Mbengue stove and cowboy at who's they neyla tash. A in New York of the German navy and credit was undermining that propaganda work in his own sweet way. How but it was one of these things how much of that work was crazy doing office in bat, and how much might have been suggested by people in London, very complex is indeed. But one thing we can say I think with. Perfect certainty today is the curly was not as he was painted afterwards and still is in certain circles, a traitor to his country, this we can be absolutely sure of that simply isn't a sufficient force in the arguments that he was he was a real traitor. He had to appear a traitor, and it was a very painful business in in some ways. But he also had the kind of personality or rather unique per Saudi which was able to sustain this double life that he was telling the Germans that he'd he'd forsaken England. And so is aim was to make German propaganda ridiculous to the American mind, and he used his psychology to do this. Was. He felt that he was successful in it. But the other thing I was able to get because of the freedom of information up raters in American law. They've released a lot of the early. What was then known as the bureau investigation into the Federal Bureau investigation. FBI the papers on crony now available to scholars so I was able for the first time to show the investigation the J. Edgar Hoover will was running into currently in one thousand nine hundred ninety nine hundred because they marry couldn't work out what he was doing. And and the British intelligence would not being helpful to anybody in this matter, and who was convinced to the diet Crowly died at some have created was dangerous spy, but for whom he could never work. That's that's the real are of spying in decades. Yes, I think crony loved adventure. I think if you look at his early life as well. He went to some Petersburg when it was an undergraduate, and he went to betas Berg deliberate me to acquire experience. So that he joined the diplomatic service. He'd been sponsored to go to Cambridge by the British Prime minister, he aimed to be a diplomat. I think he lost interested in the diplomatic service. Several reasons one was he was able to support himself. Anyway from is from his inheritance once he was twenty one. Secondly, I think he realized that all earthly glory is few tall that was a trance of sorrow. He realized that the you know, it wasn't going to get anywhere by becoming famous ambassador. He said who can remember the names of famous investor, but I don't think the lost his interest in intrigue and wherever he goes subsquently as I was able to demonstration the biography. He always knows the men of console personally, and he's going out with them. Now, that's the way I lot of spin arch. Works simply observation knowing what to inform about and who to inform and also being available. If somebody in those worlds, once you he said, somebody wants asked about the critiques, you know, the idea that on destiny on the planet is governed by higher entities. He said, you may have trouble contacting them. But if they wish to content you you will. Assured of their existence and he he compared these secret chiefs to the naval intelligence department. Yeah. It's almost comforting to such Zimet. We'd be we'd like to feel I think looked after by higher entities. But I think whether it's they Nagel intelligence departments the secret chiefs. They they're still dependent on our weakness. I think there are many questions that still come out protease espionage. But now we can see it for what it was. We can see clearly and we can see the process by which she inveigled himself with German propaganda. And and what it achieved family turned. So I think we will be perfectly right to call credit an intelligence asset the evidence doesn't support the idea that he was intelligence agent. I it was a paid person. But then again, identity Crawley would ever wanted to been a minister of the state at all and he wanted to stay free. I mean, and the strong interest in Irish identity, I think he really believed in a free and independent. Island, and he was very critical of British government policies right through his life. But being a critic is very difference being traitor. Izakaya was a critic of the king of Israel and. But that doesn't make him a traitor. He creek early said the poet's job is to wake his his country up. So he operating profit his country, but giving him the image of trade would much more fit into that search of making him them in or be store. Cannibal whatever you said before. It's always. Yes. Yes that image. Right. You got you got when you decide to demonize somebody you'd throw everything out there. You have you throw the lot so crowded it wouldn't be enough to say the Croly was anti Christian. It wouldn't be enough to say he was a magician. It wouldn't be enough to say his relationships with women were difficult. You've got a you've got east code actually, settle women treat them slaves. They accountable mudder murder people be a traitor, and so you go to if you're going to turn blanket now, how many people in history had this kind of image this treat Donham. It's almost unique in this literary men, I can't think of another literary, man. No, that's true. And to that extent. That's quite amazing. Europe's up strongly believe that either before my time is through not long after that will have to be a very general recognition that he was one of the greatest spiritual thinkers. Western history, and one of the best original and confident that this day will come if it isn't coming ready, but it will be a major shift than it will require a generational change of the section, but you're good with helping eight bring as close to the truth. And it's worth was misery of rising. Let somebody a one for viewers wrote that you're talking that positive for you actually about the formative years of Crowly. Would you see it also like that are does US or American years his formative years or would that be an exaggeration? But reviewer I think it's an exaggeration craze philosophy is. Develops extraordinarily quickly is people don't bother to read his essays. He was rising nine thousand ninety hundred ninety three ninety four when he was what twenty five twenty seven twenty. He's late twenties early thirties. He's already developing. He said himself in his autobiography that he felt he was born with a complete mind, you know, that it was a complete individual when he was born under. He was almost not fully formed intellectually by travel. I mean, he I think the years at India ah formative nine hundred ninety one ninety two when his instill on or should anchors. Call at an India. I think those were real because he wanted to understand. But is from the inside he wanted to understand Hinduism Brahma Rahman philosophy from the inside. And he grappled struggled with it and wrote incredibly complex essays on those subjects of very high into actual order. So I think he's is thinking many subjects, and of course, when is climaxes in ninety six when he achieved Samadi, the obliteration mom of the ego and the the identification of subject and object. What he calls the intimate knowledge of the holy guardian angel. He realizes experiences what he calls the lower the atoms within or above his being ordering compass thing and from that day on he's either God state, or he's the idiot dangling in the world like a puppeteer. But it's not a it's not a puppet, I was crazy naughty boy never stops. He was always a naughty. Boy, he was an orgy boy when it's stayed inaudible. And and that was to my part of his charm and Wieser one of the reasons why so many women adored it. This is another untruths that he was had rotten relations with women all complete nonsense. He stayed friendly when certain women for many, many, many years and always relationships went through here is where the woman would be completely crazy about. And then realized that you couldn't hold this. Passion for parts, but he gave the same freedom to the women in his life that they they also encouraged to be true to themselves. So I think he ends some moms friendships, we women I think he ought occasionally. But he unlike many modern writers one of his most important books even ascribed to the lady who's living with at the time. I think this is very feminist thing to do truly feminism EBay gives gives all his credit. He's an easy wonderful. The more you get to know. The the more amazing you'll you'll an open minded open hearted as new is not threatened by this level of individual. He's going to have a wonderful time getting to note. No, I don't think America's formative formative. In his magical development. He becomes a maze with a word the identify. It gets to the point identifies himself with the words early in that sense formative. But until this is over all intellectual on the world, and spiritual. No, it's arguably it's part of the it's part of the test of who he is. I think in America he was tested. He was the God. God's put in for it. Right. And they took him to the bottom of his they slammed him down in New Orleans, and the January nineteen seventeen with no money, no prospects, nothing and the has to stop again. And it's an incredible story. He goes on strike is I've got enough of working for the gods. I'm not rising anymore and you see in deal with that situation in in New Orleans nine seventy six fending off the news sitting in a corner in the old quarter fighting at is in battle. With himself. And you see how we survived quite an inspiring story make wonderful film credits. Life is all formative in in a sense, everything that happens to him leads into new insights, everyone has their favorite Croly one period or another. I like American trail, though, he said he was too mature to deal with opportunities came as way, I think that's a very modest where pulling it was not able that time in his life to make the best of the opportunities. He certainly went through the mill as we say he went through the experience, and it's a much more complex experience than any other as Terek figure in history. I think I think you get Giordano Bruno run for his money, all and recording us a gripper. These or Kelly Ostro who was a previous incarnation of his let's action is that. He's also goodness sake considering funnier than any of the greatest censored adventure, incredibly more lovable. But I tried to give you as much as possible to give I always let his voice be heard. You'll get the idea unless you're the automatic small-minded narrow type foam meeting a big person to light is just too much to bear. He did want to liberate at mankind. Middle name was Alexander, which means helper of men, and he was very proud of that the name. I was stays what he thought was the true Gallic form of Alexander. But he got it wrong as he said, but then he looked at the spelling, and he said I like that. And of course, he's the Alastair that's been nobody. Alastair AL E. I S T. Exactly, it was a major challenge to research it, and but an absolute joy. I did get moments. Join the ball with seeing this Clinton. And I was with seeing it clearly for the first time and many characters zook entered his life that you've never read about in any debt that time and he's love the greatest love of his life. Really other than rose is I live John Foster, gene foster comes over very strong in the book says there's a great romance. He he said years later, did she really break, my heart. Well, I think if anyone ever break crews on it was and she was she was the office user, full medical person. Indeed, very individual. So that's a big part of the story which enable to reveal in its its debt that was a joy to hold. I really great to like her and she lived till nine hundred seventy I couldn't believe in though, should which have been born ten years earlier could have interviewed. I'd love me wealth to buy. This is really fascinating. A thanks for writing those books and for letting us participate in what to fascinating personality. Cruelly was. Thank you for sharing it with us today. I can only incite people to go and get that book because it's it's really lovely and get it as a book printed and hold it in hands and redid Tobias before we leave each other. Let's know about any upcoming projects that he would like maybe to share already with us deputy look forward to something by you coming out soon, you know, the regional word for Shankar's, son. It was wheel that will the wheels the shockers Hindu physionomy these wheels. Never stop turning this. The great thing. Well, I suppose they must count on end sometime so long as they turn I keep turning. And I've got a my next work off to this is meant to be the ultimate book on the nineteen sixties, which I've always wanted to to and is called a spiritual meaning of the sixties. Yeah. I wanted to do the whole thing and really get because I grew up in that big time. Yeah. A big big big subject again. One of those things that bring me on difficult questions as far as understand. There is no book on this subject anywhere there. Lots of books bad sixties events, their political analysis and all the rest, but this is the spiritual meaning of the sixties Mets what I'm looking for. What is the spiritual mania sixties, obviously for that? You must always look at the spiritual content. Some people say that was no spiritual content to the six era of superficiality of mindless rebellion and all the rest. Well, I look into all that. And I go into industry and the commerce and space race developed a plastics technology. But obviously also the counterculture music movies television developments around the world and also in my life. And I regard my. -ception there. It is as valid as anybody else's. So that's next year probably early summer, the spiritual meaning of the sixties, and I'm now just about start my next book, which will be looking at India. I'm not consenting more bash it than I want to I want to clarify. Of the misapprehensions and complexities about Indian and its relevance to the western esoteric tradition. And as one of reviewers another one since and the by Churton has a habit of setting himself difficult topics cover and then making them accessible through goods country sharp lucid explanatory style. Well will said isn't it couldn't? Tobias. It was lovely to talk to you today. Thank you so much for your time. But especially also for big open and letting us look deep inside in your laboratory, let's put it that way. And thanks for sharing. All this with us. It was true. And I hope sometime we'll speak again here on Thermes. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I'm definitely on the lookout for two upcoming books. That Tobias was talking about. Please note that this interview has already been recorded a bit over three months ago, and that therefore when he talks about the release date for his new book saying next summer. He, of course means summer of this year twenty teen. So what's out? And if you are a regular is Notre sauce Hermes. I'm sure you will also hear me-mention window appears on visuals. We still one more thing. I would like to announce to you today. Thomas come some famous village teacher and occultist founder of dragon Rouge, and one of the main representatives of the left hand path will soon be back on thought Thermes with alone awaited interview as follow up on his interview, which he did for us in a number four in season one. So if you have not yet heard that episode, you should maybe go there and listen to it. So that you will be prepared when Thomas returns, and then you will hear him talk about topics such as the eleventh dimension of Ben while model broad and eleventh cliff owes the nightside of the rooms and to hyper cube, the multimedia transmission of satiric wisdom, the unit chrome c and to race dead. Global and local ICT and higher L worldwide networks and the mega mind as vehicle of the dragons manifestation also about Newburgh releases and forthcoming audiobooks huge program. And the Mary exciting one. And this is known in of today's episodes, which was number three in our season. Two of the Thoth Hermes podcast. Thank you for listening. I hope that once again, we were able to give you some fresh ideas and new thoughts about r as Terry and Oko towards. Our next episode when present an interview with Stocker Stephen advent flowers centered around his new book origin, magic, rituals and initiations of the Persian Mudge. I. Last time. I have announced an interview with marketing folks is interview has been recorded and will be on its way sometime soon as well. It will become part of a special format. Wendy rule is back with her night sea journey and I will let you go. Thanks for listening and looking forward to you coming back here. Can stay tuned. T. During.

writer America Alastair Croly Tobias Esa Terry Oxford Mexico Teri Germany United States India George Jeff Wendy Roe Tobias Churton Andrea Berlin England Europe Crawley
Episode 116: Tobias Gustavsson

The Canine Paradigm

00:00 sec | 9 months ago

Episode 116: Tobias Gustavsson

"What's happening in the canine industry for all the latest news? Views and expert opinions. Stay right here. For the Canine Paradigm. You'll hear from industry leaders. Experts Doyennes of the industry learn colleagues movers and shakers and the odd randy guest get the latest insights and expert advice from both here and abroad from the people in the Nong. Now here your hosts Glenn Cook and Pat Steward Am Lofty Fulton. And I'm Outta here IPAD. It's twenty twenty the new Ye Gerry Cole. Jason Famine. He's attitude of improved. Only one might have found out. Should we calling Ya okay? Let's do that yeah. I buffet pop recording another Ad. And we thought we'd go up all rights. Is that one of the reasons you down a lot of people calling you because you know it's awesome until midnight but now people ring me like after nine law. Hey Jay. Goni staffer sow through Angelique. Doug CLIP DOT COM. Yeah you get on the website and if you're a balanced trying our certified balance that all girls school right you can get up to forty dollars off. High just products US say is that because you're an ethical good guy and trying to across people just line them without knowing what they're doing with them pretty much there are other reasons but mostly it's not on my lamb and I thought well I if people wanted all this kind of dog training equipped monk quit monk equipment chipmunk has equipment on is that money and I'm Pat. Yeah the equipment the equipment. Yeah where do they go to check out that is on VIC DOT COM? Www Dot E. R. N. E. C. DOT COM happy new year head. Waiting dog food. I'm not eating dog. Table was last time. This is why we re doing this ad because loss time we were doing it. We had people ringing up saying I'm very confused. It sounds like aiding dog food dog food. Did people think you ate? I thought I was aiding bright spots. Why would people think you aiding it? Well because on our ad last time I made a little russell a new said Glen. What are you doing I said? I'm enjoying some bright spots. Isn't it that the bright spots are so healthy nutritious for a dog that they're amazing to us in training because does love the flavor of very good for the dog and they're so delicious that you thought maybe you'd have a little new? Well you could because it's been so well made as you said as you pointed at Carly brought us all the best products that you could possibly think of an adult traits that you could possibly ate them but they're not recommended for human consumption but a great feodor. Okay where would I get? These dog squad. Canine Services DOT COM dot. I year did you say. Dog scored Canine Services Dot Com. The radio I did say that Kane on or spill it out kind as in C A N I n a not k nine okay so spell it out dog squad. Canine SERVICES DOT com. A you get yourself. Some bright spots use them to train. You dog aren't have nibble yourself unless you really want exactly awesome. Welcome back to the Canine Paradigm. I'm your host Pat Stewart. I'm joined in-studio today. By my co host Glenn Cook and all the way from Sweden. We HAVE ON SCOTT MR Tobias Gustafsson. Thank you thanks. Thanks to buy absolutely fantastic. That you've made time to join US your al. I E you guessed well accepted by but yeah at first sweet. That's for sure I. We talked a lot about your podcast. I'm really looking forward this. You will thank me. I really appreciate you making the time of being kind of a stalking looking fan of yours in the background. For a long time I watch a lot of. You'll young were the work you're doing hobbies insent detection posted a few times now discussion group when you know when you think you're pretty good at something and then you say someone do something that is just a light years ahead of what you feel. Feel that way a lot when I watch your poppy videos the way you have them searching so intently and so happily and I've just been really super impressed and I don't know a lot about your history so I'm really actually super excited to find out so thanks for making the time but can we go back to the spot and begin. How did you get into training dogs jammed up at this point now? What I we have in. I don't know how it is in Australia. But we have some from what understood site by the unique organization in Sweden It's kind of like in Netherlands. We have a very old working dog give organization where people competing obedience and tracking and we have our own protection work program and everything and that organization is more than one hundred years old. So it's really rare to find anyone in Sweden who has for example money Wa or German shepherd whatever who doesn't attend two courses in this organization so you can say that the ordinary dog owner in Sweden. They are kind of organized than its average dog. Owner has quite a knowledge. I I must say that doesn't mean that we have the best knowledge when it comes to more specific things but the average dog owner. They attend taught courses. And that's where I started also back in when I was both always had dogs in my family because they were also in this working dog organizations in every little village in Sweden. We have this club so when you get a puppy ago to to the working cub and from the beginning this organization was very close to the military and so that's where I started and then I bought my first own dog when I was eleven and since then I've always had dogs and train dogs and my parents get to also where that organization so I'm really unfamiliar with. I don't know Swedish. I don't know the working dog environment there at all. I know the campaign a little bit. And that is a government sponsored lucky these the Royal Dutch Association and the rules are written in the control. He's actually by the government and I know that it was Basically a streamlined. To create having civilians police dogs for them in the past. Is it something similar unswayed in the in the same idea? Same police primarily but military so the close connection to get some found the funding from the government when it comes to rescue dogs and also some of the an email area like a p. h. One is it something horrible. Yeah so we have competitions in tracking in bite work in search and rescue and in obedience that is specific to this Swedish working dog organization. Like I said it's more than hundred hundred years old and we also have. We were pretty Earlier we're starting with mentality testing personnel tests also longtime ago so in nineteen seventy one day started to formalize this testing to the working club also so everyone who who compete seen in any of this potential tracking or whatever to be part of that system in the working club. You have to do this mentality tests. And that's the goal without Bundy's not to test every individual not tell much about that individual but to use that knowledge into the breeding programs. So it's very organized. Perfect yeah so. That's kind of like came to be because he was the goal from the beginning to have civilians train dogs for I think the Swedish mentality tasty is quite well nine around the world. There's a lot of people who have tried to base. They work off at or have followed intently. The history of the mentality taste. I think it's a good idea. Yeah it's strong but I I know it's one of my colleagues. He actually passed away a couple of weeks ago. One of our old colleagues He will serve Wasn't Thalji stand. started working at the government dog school many years ago when he was one of them who started to or who actually created this test. So it's an interesting history but I'm also one of the most famous critics concern but I I'm proud of a proud of the of the history of you know when it comes to working dog Tradition in metallic tests and everything. But I'm also at the same time critical to how it is. It hasn't changed much drives. Yes Ninety One F. sorry to hear the passing colleague. Yeah it was an old man but he was still working with us until just recently so An with him. A lot of the history of the working year organization in Sweden in the military police talk history followed him because he was one of the pioneers in this field. What was the loss felt? I thought yeah. Yeah he was. One of the first is theologists actress in the world who actually started to study dogs because Douglas. Very unusual at that time. Now it's very popular. But at that time was he was born. Nineteen thirty eight so most longtime ago Roger. That'll be talking bad. So that's why you got your grounding. That's started as a kid. I was lucky enough to meet him when I was quite young. So he he took me under his wings and then we started to work together. And I I was at that time. I had been training dogs a lot but he made it possible for me to actually start to work with dokes something in the also inspired me to study biology. So I tried to combine my biologist dissuade the practical dog training. So we are actually hauling. All are all of us in discounting. Work Institute. also biologists Lau. Yeah so we are close connected to to the university might call Yancey San Assistant Professor at the University also very good dog trainer so we tried to combine both works. That's what's being the most interesting crossover from dog training to biology world. What is it that you guys are doing that? He's a no one else's adopted yet. I don't think we will. Actually what we we do. That comes natural for us because we are kind of race in the scientific world and the traditions of the university to always be critical. Always look at things from different Perspectives was listened to other at always try to develop things instead of trying to defend your method so and that can be sometimes for students. Participants of course is quite frustrating. I think also because we change all the time that our goal we find out better way of doing things London I'm just stupefied don't change jam. So always hoped that if I used to tell the people are courses is they come to course with us this year and hopefully the next year they come back. I will say completely different things. That's the idea 'cause if I didn't do that have obvious not learn anything during that year. So and I think that comes from from our background says biologists and especially my colleague who is a scientist. This is a part-time job. Now he's working with those the fifty percent draining on the end of the university. So I think we what we don to actually try to be objective in everything and always be the open to to different ways of doing things. We don't try to defend a method. I think that's the main thing I think we managed to combine those two. That's an interesting look at things and I appreciate what you're saying pet neighbor just talking before we got to air about being comfortable with things sometimes and I guess hearing you talking about that. It's a very hard thing for people to do. It's a very hard position to get yourself in. Initially it's the best position to really Bain because flexibility really means that you advance quite a lot in the way that you think and grow in your own field because once you start getting those cognitive biases or defending your position. Vehemently you start thinking. I'm at the top of my field. I know everything I can't really learn anymore. It's a very dangerous place debate so yeah I totally appreciate what you're saying. Yeah and it's not fun to train dogs if you don't constantly try to push the limits or do something different way and present. I think that's It was almost look at that. The canine community has kind of bed. Pseudoscience almost everything is built up through at round Gurus way of expressing their opinions rather than actual facts. And that's something that we really tried to stay far away from go since I don't think it will develop the dog training at all if we continue to look at it in that way so Also especially since there are so little research done if you look at the scientific studies on doctrine it's nothing nothing at all. There's lots of things on on learning theory in general on all that that's all well studied that when we look into the dog training specifically nothing at all. I think it means that can be completely sure. This is the best way of training a dog. Yes not if you look at the scientific literature. I think a lot of the scientific studies on dog training not very well done the for two reasons. Sometimes worry about the studies that down because they down boy Brian. Scientists don't buy dog China's and so there's things about dogs that they'll do you know because it does China would look at any one moment seo. That's really a test of the dogs. Perseverance rather than intelligence or something like that as well as some other tests I find it done in order to to prove a point and with selective. Look at the evidence you can prove any point that you lack no matter what it is know. You could prove this gauze purple if you derive evidence do that and the stuff that tells you. The Sky is blue and there was a time where a lot of the experimentation on dogs. Just calm because that was all that was accessible. They only had the dog to do it on. Yeah and you can also look at when when my colleague started to because he was already interested in dogs at that time many was the ideology quite new field. Them winning the biology's Animal behavior so he wanted to start to study dogs but it was impossible to to get any money for that goes. It was not farm. Animals was not wide so wilson possible to get any funding toy so that became possible actually quite recently the studies on or the science about dogs and dog training and cognition personalities. White Mu the money. You can almost set the date when it started with Brian Harran when he wanted to study dogs in another way than had been done before so It's you know fifteen twenty years but what you can see now is that it's what it was really interesting in in the beginning but now it's our new studies almost every month. But it's very very little about dog training it's not about personality and Islamabad cognition. And it's all things that confirmed things that we every dog owner new already. But how can we use this knowledge in dog training in the Practical Situation? Where you're standing there training your dog. That's it's not nothing at all. Actually I would say it's mosaic and I really miss that part that's was actually the the goal when we started off in two thousand ten with a work together we have worked with dogs Before but started to work together the four of us. The goal was stuck. We also should start up research project within the university where we would focus on those things that could actually tell us something about how to train a dog. Yeah that's about to suggest. When are you going to elect the? It's interesting but it's very little is actually useful. Yeah you guys are sound to me like the perfect team to be doing that. You have the real dull training knowledge to get an effective test of different techniques and as well as the capacity to see it through properly through the university right training scientists that spurlock gold The problem is that we have so much work. The we think is at the moment more fun. Actually we are. We are involved in some projects. But yeah that's the goal and at least we tried to keep that way of looking at things also on our courses in in our own training especially when it comes to help to to plan your training to use progression plans. Always measure that everything but can be measurable in Dog. Training to actually see if you're getting somewhere you're doing the same thing over and over again so it's very kind of technical would say that's the way we tried to combine our background with the practical training to buy you talked about. You'll love of science and your appreciation of it but also what it's lacking at the moment. What are your thoughts around? Its more recent study bit more race in science that people actually using MRI to study. Brain mapping dogs. Where do you see that going? And do you think that's beneficial and L. Learning understanding? I know you talked about the difference between understanding the brain and the behavior. But do you think that has applied in understanding dogs in the training world? I think what's more would be more interesting than I hope that this is also what happening and that is to focus on personality more when it comes to differences impersonality between dogs because we can can see clearly that the differences between individuals within rediscover bigger sometimes the differences between two individuals from different breeds. Now we have had fifteen twenty years so studying personality and how to measure it done. Actually a lot of new knowledge have been coming from that those studies and now what I would like to see is how we can use the knowledge about personality when we choose the different training methods. That would be extremely interesting thing to actually do something about it and use it in some way that knowledge that we now have and Like you said that takes knowledge about dog training to be able to set up a study like that. That would be really interesting. Because like I said the general Learning principles on oprah conditioning in classical conditioning. Social learning everything. We know a lot about. It's actually nothing. Nothing new to to figure out there. There are different ways of looking at it from different views. Depending on what kind of scientific field you're working with name but its definition Words established everything. Yeah and That how how can you use the personnel? That the the knowledge we have in personality. This training method for example would be more suitable for this kind of personality and that would be interesting. I think that's that would be the next step in in dog training. The stuff that has been done on that. We're talking to Cameron forward a couple of weeks ago. And he does cognition tests. I know you spend some time with him. You know him pretty well and it sounds like you're doing same sort of thing yeah right. I haven't been injuries but I yeah I metal. Yeah so are you doing a similar sort of thing and using the stuff? It's from Duke. University is it the doctor here. Yeah so you implementing some of that into the dogs at your training or do you have do. I haven't seen the actual test but I I know a lot about the studies that have been probably leading to these tests and what this is that would be using in our training of course is to to add this knowledge about social learning and cognitive abilities in dogs on their unique some say that there is unique ability to read. Uman Signals on actually interprets dump. But some say it's not a unique abilities so it's still different ways of looking at that too. I said you have to be open to. Every that's the whole idea would science to come up with a new idea and and and the open to other people's opinions but so of course we. Are you seeing the basic knowledge about that? You know that dogs are exceptionally good at absorbing some they follow a certain pattern when they are looking at the human face for example from a Finnish. Study showing that quite recently. They don't do that. Randomly directly following some certain pattern. So yes in a way. We are doing that because when we look at the progression from for example for tracking and detection. It's part of the plan to move your bonding way to avoid that from happening. But I also think that I would have done it. Also if if those wouldn't be goes like I said again something that if you have trained many dogs doing that for a long time. It's no surprise that those are exceptionally good. That's Zo. I still miss that things that we really didn't know know anything about so we don't use the cognition test. I haven't seen it but I think it's fun to do it but it shouldn't be a surprise. Yeah Anyone Yup trained oaks interesting tobias that you were talking about body language. I was watching a series of your videos when pat was telling me that we were going to do the interview with you and I've seen you work before of Watch. Dust Napleton clips of videos. That you've done the past. One thing that I really appreciate is hell calm. You are when you sending dogs into work like you do very little in the background. And that's where I find especially in detection where a lot of handlers make errors. Because they're too involved in what the dogs doing you know his Co. They do a lot of cheeky cheeky. Chunga and they walking around. They're waving their arms which you have to move and you have to be prisoned but you have a very calm demeanor you let the dog do all the work and you don indicate to the dog. It's a wrong based off your body language which I think is. It's a very masterful skill in itself to be able to have the dog be excited about the work it's doing and yet based so nonchalant about it on aware of that Actually if you are looking at one study where they had dogs entering three different rooms one room. I was petting the dogs in one room. They were just talking to them in in another room. That were completely quiet. It showed that the voice was acting very important for dogs. They didn't you know it was kind of like a background sound. So it didn't matter if the if the person was talking with who was quiet but petting was something that they really wanted to have so when it comes to using voice for example in in dog training. I always tried to use it as little as possible. Because I don't want to get used to having me using these big gestures Because when I really need it later on our really want to listen to then he's already used to all his things so I tried to use as little as possible because I think it makes the dogs more focused more easy to communicate with them over things and I think a lot of these things especially when I see people play with dogs. They kind of start up by doing lots of things with their arms running around using their voice all the time and I always ask them to look at the difference if they didn't use their voice if they actually saw the difference in the dogs intensity Whatever and most of them when they tried they say no actually. I didn't mean anything so we do a lot of things without having a plan for it. Just do it because feel natural to do it and so for me. That's also in the beginning. Many years ago it was difficult for me to shop now bottom of my training. I don't want any surprises in dog training out. I want everything to be one hundred percent planned. 'cause I Hate Charlton era always looking for trialling success. And then you had to to to be aware of those things and that's because A spark part of it because later I may add these things. distractions or making them bridges or whatever. But if I start up with all that then have also problem to actually know in which of them actually become signals for for things so I like to observe them and try and especially when we are doing detection and tracking. I don't want to compete with the things that I want to be interested in sniffing the ground or whatever so then I can add those things later on my voice and everything as a planned distraction. I find that as well I used to be a lot more chichi around a lot more vocal and talking to the Dogo more and then when I found it was time to layer in commands. Adoga basically choice to just become. What noise at that point so? I've made a lot of effort to try and stay as quiet as I can so that when I do speak. It's novel to the door and it has a value show. You can. Yeah exactly as well so I don't like quiet quiet commands but just spoken just no commands donate to yell at my dog because my voice doesn't have a value out of them. What I give give it so if I have to yell then like I give yelling. Gabby and also I think it's takes away the handlers focused on the situation. They are doing a lot of other things you know waving their arms and shouting and everything and then I always wonder. Do they actually look at the dog? Now are they just doing Danso and also you see this kind of emotional state in dog China when they enter training Room or whatever. They are already excited. It's not to talk about with the dogs and everything and then it only takes one or two times Goes into the training situation with the same thing and they are already a bit hectic. That's you know it's a big no-no having don't coming in to do a Difficult kind of detection for example in all ready pending so the training aptitude is something that I at least focus on a lot that my dogs when they are entering a trade situation on completely focused on what they are doing a never let them be unfocused or or doing Alistair Punishment for doing but I never let that pass Joe and that's really important especially with poppies. Because you can kill you that when we start to ask for that focus on engagement already when they are eight tweets or ten weeks. That job is what we can clearly see that they bring through the whole career. I don't look at pop betraying poppy. Training is the cyclists. The exact same thing we do the populace that we do the two year old dog but if we treat them like an only do very simple niece things with them when they are obvious and then all of a sudden they are one year one half year. Start to ask them for to do difficult things. It's almost it's like you you train big PAPI goes there have been able to. Do you know to be not be focused for June. The whole upper trainings. We ask for the same thing with Georgia Times of course but this is part of it. I don't want them to go in there and think it's just you know handler shouting screaming and tried to be. Finally I want them to always enter the situation with the focus on. I have to be act the same way in that case we can definitely use the social knowledge social social learning to take a deep breath. I'm calm down and you will get the same effect in the dokes so that term social learning for at least is. Can you just explain that a little bit? Such learning is something that you can see all your group living animals that they can learn from each other and it's not true invitation. That's also one part of social learning but there are different levels you can say about social learning there are social facilitation on your have true invitation on you have different levels at day doesn't need any reinforcement to cure actually doing just because someone else is doing. Also St Louis in focusing stimulus enhancement that you can focus on one point in the environment than than other people. Dogs will also start to focus on that one and that's something that Cassim an awesome animals but what dogs showed in a very special way was that they are able to do this. With another species in this case humans and social learning is a resource can use it a lot in the dog. Training can make them Julius things but at the same time. It's a problem. You should not wear certain because then you may be draw away the attention from things just by looking at some point or standing with your upper body directional whatever so social learning means that you can actually yet you learn from the other. You're doing because other ones doing it. You don't need reinforcement to do it so sometimes it can be really difficult to different from open conditioning. It's always that it's always difficult because it's always it's wind yes associate learning means that can be from very simple thing like I said looking direction on the other one's going. There were both swimming in a sea one but is swing towards some person throwing food in the water around the other birds following a boat. That's also social learning but also very advanced things like truly mutation that you can actually learn a completely new behavior just by observing someone else doing it and this smart type of learning because then you can let the other one doing the mistakes and for a long time. We said that dogs are not able to do this. But not with sector shown that social the true imitation is postponed. The dogs don't good at it. They are extremely good at it. If you look at Claudia for God's research for example that's that's a good example something for me completely overwhelming in. You can be used in dog training. That's also type of social learning on a we use that in the work. You know like bringing young puppy Zine to say all the dogs due to work and sometimes I've seen poppies that aren't so interested in. Maybe the praise there that they're not interested in chasing a rag but when they see a a really nice session an older dog that can bring it alive. But I've never seen anyone do that in the detection. Have you had any experience with that? Do you try. And you'll dogs for detection in front of others actually. Yeah I do it with the squad offer. Actually we use an older dog for example brickwall Dover has been doing that for for noces who let the puppy just following a very effective way. You've got a video with a Little Caucus Spaniel Labrador so you actually let him get involved through what you're doing also in detection work. Is that what you do but sometimes you can do is that. Maybe she was working on the lineup for the first time but just by going there let someone hold the dog and you go when sneak phone on the boxes south. That's also true. So if you do that level we'll explore they don't care because they don't but we are so used to it when we're working with Dr when we have dopes that they are no looking at this all the time being interested in things that we are interesting and we take for granted because it's so natural force to 'cause we see it all the time but it's actually a very special thing pound doing even better looking than we are addressing them. Yeah I want to talk about some of the other things that you do it skin everywhere but a really curious about of watch so many videos that you put out of getting poppy started and you do kind of an indication on what. Let me go back a step. I think because you sell dogs right to all different kinds of departments have different end jobs so you imprint them and takes them to search on the call is that is that correct is not not always. I would say because we're not training very many dogs but we have we. We work a lot with special units in policing military and with some of the units that we are already working with maybe training their handlers and then sometimes we train dogs is undone. It's the end. Goal is different sometimes. It's very specialised. Sometimes it's not Yes sometimes not always. It depends on what the dog is supposed to do in the in the end of the training but will do when we if we take the colon for example. Because most of the time we do we do that and it's actually nothing. It's nothing new. It's nothing special that it's mine detection. Dogs have been training like that for for a long time. What we're doing is that we are using something else than the targets dolder. That makes it possible to train much more than without having to to handle all the explosives on drugs or whatever that is actually also based on one thing that studies have shown being a problem. This context you learning. That should be more focused on in detection training. The dog so quickly learned that this happened in this environment. So if you need to train on the target older all the time then we clearly see that people kind of avoid training public areas or go to the thirty on height didn't know Or whatever so they go to their the same training as sort of the same place every time but if you use something else like home for example it's the it's not a problem if you forget it. There at the Patriarch or whatever would be big problem with was ADP. So that nate's more straight. I train a lot. I train hours every day and I have. We have some kind of idea that every time we bring our dogs in the car for something. Every time I'm driving I constantly look for new places to train new environments surfaces or whatever at eight. I'm training explosive detection dogs. That wouldn't be possible than I had to carry the explosives in the car every time. So you need to have something as train on Calling happens to be a good thing for that because it is a good material you can cut it into small pieces without it falling apart compared to Thomas Ball or whatever when we used to read going see see for most of us back at least to see quite eight Adults DOME C. Read so you can use it then. That's also good in that way. You can get the Deborah wearing the world so what we do is your the basic training on Khan. And when we have gone through certain steps than we add. The target older ended pending on the end goal. If it's for example of dog searching on an airport for example than. I recommend that you don't train on comb because you always have to look at the consequences of an alert. Maybe to shut down the whole airport on a fits piece of calling or Problem but at the same time. If you're working at the airport you are probably also searching in the same place all the time so then you can actually use the context. You're learning By MAKING EXTRA. Goede that specific place. But if you are supposed to work within your dog everywhere then you often need something else to train them. I will not go into the Suda. Were sense and all that but have custody discussion way. We most of the list of working with Also here in Sweden Day. At least the government agencies are not allowed to train on supersedes reinvent or or running so then you can choose if you train on and you consider it just another target odor so you continue actually do the training man. The new material softeners account. Or if you stop and then only switch to target older but it makes it possible and it's so that's the reason why we don't always so my question then knowing what you just explained in that it's just an eighty material to use. Have you adapted your training because I noticed the way that you sort of start your poppies ease with an indication on the Dr Ward? So you're actually holding the wrong and you sort of not Lua but bring on a a seat in an indication very very early and then the dog gets it from in your hand and then you transition that to becoming the search for what is no longer in your hand buddies somewhere else. Is it a chicken or the egg thing? Did you start doing that? Because you're using Kong's or were you doing that in some other way and now you use the comb. The whole idea by with back chaining. It's it's kind of. It's nothing new. That's not the new thing. Everyone knowing about learning theory knows that the back chaining is not always but very often a good way of doing things on detection and tracking are chains of behavior and then it's natural to start with the end behavior What we have seen is that a lot of the things that at least the dog teams that we are working with looking for are highly dangerous than also unstable. So that's the especially when it comes to homemade explosive. So you just have to have a rock solid indication and that means that you cannot afford to have hall Trained indication so that comes not drove from the people that we are working with that we have to sink in way when you working with the target odor immediately done. It's more difficult to do that. Yeah when you're doing Using something on using It's possible to do under. Assault is also better because as soon as you have the dog on a distance each even if it's only to meet your three away from your end the indication it's not fully trained. The dog will have the time to turn around or whatever and then you reward language rewarded the whole Shane. And then again. You can use the knowledge about social learning in the dog Expectations on on humans that it takes repetition Starts to search for the closest human to get some help so It any will into repetitions be part of what signaling reward the indication and in this case we won't the target odor or the older to the signal for the indication. Nothing else so then. It makes total sense using the comb and of course it's just by creating some kind of muscle memory doing us. This repetition all over again Mendez mend- repetitions to have the seat automatically Transferred over to start to hide the cone from that point when we start to hide the gun than we are also using clean boiler pieces so calling and twister. Sohn plastic gloves but in the beginning. It's just like a toy. And before that we do a lot of developing motivation for the war or To give the recent tackiest era that so The first thing we do office but also older dogs is to to make them crazy about the toilet. But even if they are crazy about the toy we always stocked with food. Okay when we do the moving there we do with food. I because that's one thing that we we also tried to to tell people about the even if you know a News straight wards. They have had the exact same effect strong punishments. They go the shock effect on an they never learned. It's like you have to start over again. So problem with stress in my from my point Look dogs stress in training is not that they are using to strong rewards but that they are using it to early in the train. Trust who want the dog to be to understand and be aware of what they are doing. Then it's easier to keep it on the no stress level with food. And then when they know what they are doing done. It's not the problem to use stuff call or whatever even if they are co totally crazy about it because they cannot be to multilated device just based on what you're talking about. What is your selection criteria for a successful dog? That's something that I asked myself everyday attaches changing. I've spoke looking for the perfect dog but what I'm looking for is to try the best. I can to find the Way of training each dog. But I think and I actually think more and more every Lead TRAIN THAT. It's up to you you know you. Can you have had dogs that I didn't think much of and they ended up being really good and sound dogs that I thought would supposed to be really good? They didn't end up that good and at the same time I see the the more dogs. I train the more dogs. I think it goes quicker and better and we'll shout very few dogs now and I think that doesn't mean that we have found better dogs but we have been better on training. I hope at least so I'm tired of people talking about you. Know the dog's personality on trying to find excuses all the time. Because if you have a dog gun done you cannot do anything about the personality or mentality or whatever but the only thing that you can actually do something about is your training and I think it's better to see the challenge to know. At least that's something that I got. I guess from my mind background that you you get the dog you get them then you try to the best you can and sometimes it doesn't get very good but at least you learn something during the way so i. I really don't like that. You know when I see people try to find bad things with their dogs to give them an excuse to change dog. I really don't like that. That's one of my problems with aptitude tests that I think it's a it's a problem. Don't I don't like when you are looking for? Add things in dog's personality or mentality goes I see too many dog hunters talking about those things for the rest of the dogs lives so I think the best test is to find things that don't look for qualities in than I. I prefer that than I think it's also in a-. In another way you can see. Sometimes that people are disappointed by the result of tests for example in done that disappoint in follows through the training and they look kind of you know frustrated as soon as they get their dog cider or the car and started training. They're looking constantly disappointed so I performed tapping it. The best test I think is to the selection is to start the draining and see if you getting somewhere always aimed for being better and better so I have really. I was if you ask me ten years ago. I would probably say that this is what I'm looking for this perfect dog but now we get so many dogs that I have to to change that the view because attests of a dog is not interesting until your testing together with the person who is training it goes to the dynamic that will actually the important thing even if you have the best objective good Dobie but still you handle their are trainer and maybe his you to one type of doggone. It doesn't matter if you have the best in the world. Yeah so And that's one thing that recent studies actually showed on. That was a Swedish study. I read about from them. Whether we're looking more into personal tests that tests that were done without the handler or owner. We're not very interesting because that's not the situation where someone ever would see. Because what is interesting is to see how the door reacts together with the person who is. He's actually living with and it's the same with training to just look at the dog in an aptitude tests doesn't tell me anything actually. Yeah sort of absorbed in a vacuum Ryan. That's not not realistic at no and I think it's the effects of the consequences so that is a problem. Also because that makes you think that you cannot change anything. This is the dog and I think a better way of doing this. That you have people were there are some. I like Long Way friends in Canada. I think you know I'm to mark lapointe Makia and I've been working with them in the up and they're good except they are other similar acceptance. But I think there are good in the way they are doing that. They have some Experienced trainers some instructors and also they are the one selecting the dogs and they are the wants to do the basic training before the dog. Hunter Start Their course sexual also long course so they show care that they think that training education is important but when you have selected the dogs and you have also train them you have first of all. You won't to succeed because you have spent a Lotta time. You have done this election and when you have also done the basic training you know the dog you know a lot of the dog much more than you would know if you're just testing for forty minutes or one hour whatever you should train the dog and then you hand over to to handle you can give him advice about based on what you know about the dog and you see that insistence like that. They will shout very few domes. Compared to when you have a standardized test for one hour three reuss never met this dog but know everything about him our. I don't like that because then you are looking for. He has some trouble in that the situation in that environment anew that's what the handler will remember also late drunk. I prefer to set up a standardized training program. You can do that in. I rarely have a dog. More than two weeks for selection Standardized Training Program. And then you can compare the dogs. Yes they're doing emceeing Because some sometimes you see New Orleans gives a really really good do really good test on another one didn't impress you but then if you put them in training see maybe the the dog. That didn't impress. You had this progression on the other one Arrests at all so I think the best way of selecting dogs is to see how they receive the training. And then you start to see when training Dogs WE DO. You see some things that you didn't expect for example. We do a lot of chain pulling without dogs. Okay pooling change for you know when when we are out walking you get the conditioning. You get the also Training during a walk but then we also combining knows contracting all that so to make them the especially in is they are supposed to work in Holt. Warm countries also had to prepare in that way and to make them used to Kentucky Malone. They are physically tired than what I have seen. There is that dog's stomach show because in the beginning you put the A lot of ways but some weight on you can see that they are some very disturbed by by that the some dogs. They don't care and I have seen. That attitude is something that we can also see in the training drum especially Distracting but when things get tough on it gets you know they need to concentrate and focus on than they can put in that extra year we can see thrown their own journey. Walks that they it's difficult to measure but it's something that. I think guys see in the dogs that you didn't expect you could see see some qualities in that situation and also if you compare you need to know a lot about the background the training training history when you select the dog also so that's why we really prefer to train them from practice because if they have been treated like bizarre not trained at all and then you get the one many people want them when they are one half year or two year old would have to start training and they can they have the ability to focus for two seconds and then they are completely tired just by being trained so then I know that. Okay this one. I have to treat like a poppy for probably six months to make anything good out of this one and then it doesn't matter how much he barks or by tug o war whatever in the tests situation because the most important qualities how we can handle training. How can handle hard training and focus in how we react? When he gets tired he have that extra year. And that is from our point to you. Something you create from by asking them to actually asking the Teach nominated always pays off to be focused unto. Always try to to do the best you can. Yes that's in your dragging the Chinese. The perseverance that you build saying that so you get a dog. That's really not into it and says the China and the back door and doesn't want to pull it and if you motivate and encourage him through and build some perseverance they do say that carryover into the scent work where he then gets a little bit from that boy accident almost. Oh there's now I had some some seat in tracking or have something our have Molina while it's been having him for a long time and they said very talented tracking dog but the problem with him is that he sometimes. He looks like he just want to see that he'll do some some attitude on intensity on hideous looking for excuses to do other things Talent is really good but he doesn't have the he's lacy AK- seat in the He always looks like a fucker to do this again. Harmonies and monster and his strong everything. And then you have a little. You know now female Cocker Spaniel. And whatever and they can be not all of them but few examples that they are acting the exact same different opposite way so they just try as much as they can. That's exactly the thing you want to see. Also in parts of distracting for example. So that's why I think AC- The connection and I don't know actually if you at our guests you can get some but it's difficult to say if it's the physical condition that has improved on that Mason. It better but I cannot immediately see when I put the chains chains on the harness on your consent They have never done it before the first attitude that they just go them. That's for me now. Is that Jack? This is good to have that. I know this will be fun. This will be a fun doctrine. That's an interesting test that I've never heard of anybody. Put those two links together a lot of people that do drag working sent work. But I've never heard anybody put those together on. I know I know some people that are going to be very happy to see that. GonNa feel great. The term great great. Yeah Yeah Toughness I. I think that's actually what we That they are tired out but they are just doing not all people have it but at the dogs that we are training should be the same type of personality or because they are doing some things that takes you somebody who knows my name is Ryan willingness to continue despite knowing. You can't win exactly and then I think that that's what we we need to look for. Dogs it has nothing to do with techniques or or whatever it something else on the closest I've been to see that is is through the chains and you see when you start to add some extra weight that it's too much but they just they do with with some kind of also not only won't care how to do this but they don't give it back in just look. This dog is will probably show the same in the other trainer Tobias. You've talked a lot about the successes and and working with the dog throughout and improving your own training to try and create a better dog holistically so using that term holistically. When do you consider enough is enough? There's no point in continuing with this any further as think that when we have a puppy thing that we have actually succeeded with all of them agree The recent years if you have done some if you have some knowledge about the because if you have a poppy you know. Probably something about being lines. And all that so then you have already done some kind of selection. When you have done that you should be able to do something about it when they are older dogs. We have some examples that they have been put into a type of training that is the complete opposite to what we would do and then I tried to do that within two weeks to see if the improve in a way that I think is okay so winning two weeks but what we are doing. There is draining draining everyday at two or three sessions every day to see if they have what we need unsound dogs they could use. The best type will reward. You can use snow anything and they have the ability in technique. But they don't they don't think it's worth it when you go to for example smaller amount of sense when you do we see the same. I think at least I see the same thing. When we go down to micro piece in going that they start to be more intense or some dogs they just is starting to look for other things to do and the same in hard surface tracking so during the test period. We tried to go to smaller amount to send. Us quickest possible to see if they showed the riots in testing the right that the but when we train puppies. I think that we can always get have done. Some kind of selection in the likes and it's difficult when you have a puppy to say when you should stop you know running. I think it's difficult because goes also in normally contain the really hard from eight weeks up to around five months than they start normally to come into a period where you should almost stop the training because otherwise you can get some real problems goes down. They are starting to be a bit too. Looks like they have never done the indication before and then but then it's not a problem because then we can easily pick up the train again a couple of months train hard again because then we have already done it so from eight weeks up to that time. I think it's difficult to tell when you should should stop but otherwise if it's an older dog I I I don't want to to let the owner of the dog wait for more than two weeks. I've sometimes I hear you know agencies asking for three months to test dog on the item. In what could possibly. Why would you need three months? And especially if you if you leave a dog Some wealth with three months. You have actually the time to change the dog and and they come three months We want to give back. Then I would be quite Danso think yeah. I agree with that. Might one thing I wanted to ask you about as well banging swayed and and the sort of animal welfare laws that you have their. Mri Wrong in saying that. It is quite restrictive you to use any tools. They had no phone calls. No callers and has that has that been a pressure. That's adapted your training like. Is that being a pressure for you? That is major. Do things that pushed you forward. Perhaps in a way that you might not if you could have relied on those tools. I think it's far. It's not really a discussion because it's it's always been like that so it it's not I I don't I don't know if it's ever been allowed to use it and the problem is that this is not popular if I say in some communities in Sweden that that have gone An aptitude Early in some cases that we think that we are the best in the world everything just on that we have the best way of treating dogs and all that than I've been working in twenty countries on our continually say that that's not true because just goes we have banned. E caller broncos You can you can do harm to a dog in so many ways. Yeah so I think it's it doesn't mean that we have. I think treating dogs good in in training tweeted but I mean that. That doesn't mean that we are everything else that we are doing is perfect so I see a lot. You know fooling the leash hard on you know doing lots of things that probably wouldn't have been needed to do if you could use some some other call us or to whatever. The problem is that we don't have the tradition or the problem but I if all of a sudden they would allow them. I don't think that would be a bigger problem because no one knows how to use it in a way so I don't think that we should should allow it but it hasn't created automatically a better way. We're training dogs. No ethics looked better than anywhere else. I would say Using it on really good way so I think abusive animals happens in the hot and the mind of the one hundred percent with the tool that he may use because at the end of the day like I can abuse animal with food by giving too much by giving a little in the same way I can. I can do that with any with negative punishment you can abuse a dog used to talk about also that that what is interesting is not the to lead. You're using or even your purpose revealed training but it is. It's the way the experience with Bitten the dog. How does he does understand why he's getting this? That means that the even if you have a completely positive way of training dogs who can staley. Probably if you've measured the stress levels have really problems to seeing whether this but in some punishment training or bad positive training because you want to know what you're doing wrong Dogs also want to do that but there are different ways of doing it. In Gem usenet color you can kick the dog in in the head. You can say no you can say whatever that specific to a way that you're doing it will not be the thing that decides whether the get stressed on. Its if the dog understands why the control I can't really recommend reading about why's rats when they had this series Rats three rats getting electric electrical shock. And then they were measuring the size of the ulcers and The first draft didn't get done a signal before the electrical shock in the other one. Got The signaled before the the shock that the third one also had the possibility to to push liberal the code Avoid the electrical shock and there were big differences the stress levels in the size of the officers showing that the strength all punishment or the aversive is not well decides if Dan will get stressed but if if he understands any feet if it's predictable but if he has the ability to control the situation so even though they were receiving the same electrical shock their bodies the Reacted in completely different ways. Yeah I think that's that's what people sometimes macy's that punishment or pressure in the training like that can be fine so long as it's understood clearly and The animal knows what's happening in knows what he can do to avoid it. And the and you never gonNA run into an issue entirely. Yeah Yeah but there's also another problem that I think is always a risk new are using also when you're using any kind of punishment the injuries in your voice or whatever and that is also always the secondary effect the within the handler. That you know you. You will get rid of that. What irritates your whatever in that specific moment so it will be rewarding for the handler to use punishment. That can be a problem if you get emotional. But that's connected to the planning so the plan is the key. I think it's always know what you're going to do. And if you are using punishments that should be part of the planning nothing that happens just the cost to get pissed off Yep King ended up the way you wanted it. But if you plan that in this situation would probably be best to use. Positive punishment will attribute of your training plan. Nothing that just happens. Yeah that's really sad voice So we've been talking a little bit almost entirely about the detection stuff that you guys do. What else do you do there? The institute we do almost and a kind of training from what we have recently a McCulloch trained attack dog. For Intervention Unit we do have tracking courses retrain a remote detection. Salata things right now Folks Right now where. We connect radio guidance with detection. But also obedience. Now have the next course. We will have audience course for national for Special Operations forces from different countries. Were there with their specific needs. But it's all based on the same principles. We are sharing new knowledge on new scientific studies. That's also unnatural. Of course we will always try to give a view of what's happened in the signs of dogs but also the big thing is to try and make people go in training in doing progression plans to actually construct theoretical training clowns. Some follow them in about you at the moment because especially when you're working with special unions. They often have a time limit. They have to do things very quick and they can have to change things so that you know this had changed things very quick and then the planning is the most important thing yet wall. So that's what we do in the courses so we have courses seeing our training facility for additional pounders in detection. Sometimes it's very specific but we also tracking courses. Also doing our international camps can be everything from to to obedience to anything and then we We also have some long term programs with different June square. We are working with the handlers. For a long time some of them have been working for several years and that we travel a lot to do the same things on another places in the world. Our main thing is to train. That's extremely important to train all the time. Because that's the only way for us to develop them to create new Regularly have meetings where we where we share that had discovered this. This week could take this step away from the progression found out this instead then. We tried to update them all the time. The plans for everything and the only way to do that. These two not only Jane Rondo but to actually train several books on what I think is most important is to drain. Different breeds also been mulling Wa person for a long time. Still now training labs Kochi spotted. That's what I will continue to do what we would continue to do. Because that effects everything else that we do and I think there are too. Many people are giving courses in things they clearly. I haven't trained enough dogs and that would be a I think is a problem because it you know if I am away for work for week two weeks. I got get back to train dogs again. I can feel I've I'm missed one or two weeks of mechanical training nuts. I note this in the training of the procession slow. Imagine what would happen if I only had one dog or if I I know some start to say that I don't have a dog because I don't have the time as Detroit have courses for people should be skeptical. taken something that you need to do constantly. Yeah Yeah it's a battle shaping. That skill set fresh right A. Tobias just on your website. You've got a little snippets of Youtube clips that you filmed along the way which anybody who's listening to this interview should go and have a look at and one of the ones in particular really liked is the melon. Wa that you're doing the scent detection work with where you've got him out in the field and I'm assuming it's the same dog bit. He's he's doing fieldwork. He's doing work on the bricks. He's doing work with one of your colleagues where he's detecting live on the person in the Saranda position etc one of the things. I loved that dog. That will is two things one is how audible his detection work is like. He's really using his nose. And you can hear why back. From where the Camrys the other thing I loved about him to was. He's indication even though he's sitting in indicating the one thing that I really loved. That dog was how far back you pin disease waiting for either award That was incredible. Transitions important part of of all of that training to do also Lotte long sessions to go from one thing other important also for the people that we are working with because Don Swell will happen. Has the scenarios. I think it's also important to because there are no secrets in dog training. Actually even if you're working with special forces or special units police that the practical training sloat there are no secrets. Even though people like to say so because they don't WanNA show their training. There are secrets into tactics and things like that. What kind of Odor your training on? That may be a secret. You don't have to share that but I think that people should share a show their training constantly. We try to give away as much as possible. Everything if someone asks if they can get this or that you know help with this kind of training retired to everything we are doing because we know that one day we would like to have good ideas on how to train something else and that's the best way of knowing that you will get things back and we have a very big network just because we we share the share. It raises the bar. Yeah we try to do the As possible. I think it's the most fun thing because we really get lots back when we do that. I mean that's how that's how this conversation right like the content that you put up like I say I get really whenever I say those videos come up and Mike. Oh my God. And it's. It's very beautiful to watch the training that you do especially with the Cocker Spaniel that I think you have the Mosey Stevie or something. He's really I accident really was stay at. It wasn't founded why we'RE COKER SPANNING LOUIS TRAIN for the Dutch police on them spring astounding they exit onto met so we we figured it out only two weeks before store that was not planned but yeah it's great to watch and as as you say it's light out there you can say they're trying to do you put up enough content that I can say most of your progression all right. They can say what you're doing dots Dick off and it's beautiful but we won't take up too much more of your time. Where can people get a hold of you? And what events have you got coming up. People can go to. I think the easiest way is to look at our facebook page. We are constantly traveling all the time. But I don't have all the dates available. They way we will publish it there but our facebook page S. wd I Scandinavian works institutes. That would try to update almost every day with our training and try to show how we do. Things that can be everything from detection to buy two tracking Whatever it depends on what kind of dogs molins their training and We try to now the last last month. We have too little time. But we trials to to describe why we're doing things in the text to the so that's I think. Basis way to get some info away also have a website as W D I S E that there is not other you have the information about our courses something like that and also our email address but otherwise. Our facebook page is quite active. But thank you so much for making the tons been real own and again just love watching the content that you put it out thanks. That's it for another episode of the Canon Paradigm as always if you like what he plays like. Russia subscribe do that through whatever. Subscription associate download is from Sean support. Show the best way to do that. Ease Vajpai trump three bucks a month. Get you extra episode day or you could jump onto taste bring and blossom coomer ch and that helps support us to forty getting contact with us. The best way is usually just post something in the discussion group. You have specific questions or we could shoot his name. Maui at Info at the Canine Paradigm Dot Com. And that's IT Glenn Music and.

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S5Ep11 Guest Tobias Segal discussing Ozone therapy

Dr Ron Unfiltered Uncensored

00:00 sec | 8 months ago

S5Ep11 Guest Tobias Segal discussing Ozone therapy

"Everybody Dot Com how's If you have a dog Thank you Freddy for that great introduction. There's a doctor on your host of Dr Ron unfiltered uncensored thank you for Tuning in Ladies and gentlemen and thank you for following us and giving us good ratings on the podcast mediums. That you listen to us today. We live To bias Siegel as our guest discussing those therby before we get to that base and gentlemen. Let's have an attitude of gratitude as we do every week because on going back on this can make your days happier healthy and more loving and what better time to do. We have right now than ever have these. There's an attitude of gratitude because of all the negativity in our news on the radio on television and Judah gratitude mazing gentleman. This program contains General Medical Information. The medical information heard on this program is not advises. Should not be treated as such. You are courage to confirm any information obtained from this program with other sources and review information regarding any medical condition or treatment with your position. So these gentlemen is the fourth week in a row now that we have talked about the corona virus. And we'll do so again today with with Tobias and we'll we'll have it more than about ten minutes but so many things have come across my desk. I've read so many articles this week that I just have to share some things with you The government of Italy. This is just incredible. You know how you reading here about Italy House. Been shut down. They know it's locked down. Sixty million people locked down so the question is how many times have died from this cove in nineteen okay. As far as the Italian Higher Institute of Health points out recently. Hold onto your hats. Don't let your head explode maybe to about that. Maybe two and the whole country is locked. Down the president of the Italian Higher Institute as some smarts. He understands that people who already have other serious health conditions. Which have nothing to do with this? Virus Can Kinda do die from those other conditions regardless of the fact that they've tested positive for this virus he gets it as John. Rapoport is reporting in this article. I PREDICT AGREE. Future for him. If he if he keeps shooting his mouth off he might find himself working as a weed puller in a forest. John Rapport no more fake news. This piece was published in Rome. Thirty the march twenty twenty Nova Quote Corona Virus. I S National Italian National Institute of Health in Italy. There are only two deaths ascertain so far. I'm GonNa read this to you because I think it's important and it's something that I alluded to two weeks ago quote from this article there may be only two people who die from the corona virus in Italy who did not present other pathologies this is what emerges from the medical records exam for by the Higher Institute of Health according to what is what was reported by the President of this is to Silvio. Roosevelt Woodrow during the press conference held. It helps today in the civil protection in Rome. Positive decrease patience. Dc SPACE POSITIVE DISEASE. Patients have an average of over eighty years. Eighty point three to be exact. The majority of these people are carriers of chronic diseases. Only two people were not presently carriers of other Non Cova Nineteen Diseases. And but even in those two cases the examination to files is not concluded and therefore the causes of death maybe different from Kobe. Nineteen the president of the ISS has specified that little more than a hundred medical records. Have so far been looked at from hospitals throughout Italy. He goes on to say about this He He. He's not even sure the two that that were classified this Kobe. Nineteen Were really cove in nineteen to clarify this point and provide real data as we acquire the folders we will go further however the populations most at risk are fragile carriers in multiple diseases so translated into non medical language. The people dying Italy have other various very serious traditional diseases that have nothing to do with cove nineteen and it is obvious they could have died and probably did die from those other diseases. Nevertheless the whole country of sixty million people has locked down. Think about it been telling I've been telling you for years have to be the CEO of your own body and your own health. You'd have to take control and get good information. Don't just take what the Cartel of the W eight JOE FDA TO CDC the before Basuto bocom user telling you take a break have a plate of Pasta. Jon rappoport no more fake news. Ps for those people who believe is head of the Italian Institute is lying with his factor. Figures stop and think it through. He's going. He's going to announce devastating news that essentially country. That's every pin. The Italian government is doing with his lockdown and quarantines the whole country that would be like the director of the Center for Disease Control the CDC announcing there are turtle of nine deaths in the United States. We think might have been caused by cove in nineteen and even there. We're not sure because you see these nine where elderly people who could barely get out of bed long before cove in nineteen emerged. These nine had extremely serious lung diseases not caused by cove in nineteen. So this story about this virus is still developing. Another interesting article came out of Italy at and it's published a journal And you can find it at the. Us National Library of Medicine and title of it is potential false positive rate among ASEM thematic infected individuals in close contact with Kobe. Nineteen pages the conclusion of his article in the close contacts of Cova nineteen patients nearly half or even more of the as symptomatic infected individuals reported in the active nucleic. Acid test grading might be false positives. In other words people were close contact with the people that were diagnosed with cove in nineteen. They were tested. The tests showed it PAS positive tests. It looks like eighty percent of those are false positives eighty percent okay. So now you know we're we're we're coming from okay. This is really had to keep thinking about this whole situation all right. Let me before we bring onto Tobias. Let let me just give you something to think about at the end of the program. I'll summarize a few things about eliminate your exposure but I think this is important There have been some medications that might it opposes. Kobe nineteen Virus is comes from the last British Medical Journal So here's the quote. President Trump said yesterday in his speech people with hypertension and Diabetes Turkeys taking certain medications are at an increased risk. They know why these conditions are more at risk and here the medications that are talked about to put you in an increased risk for this Kobe in nineteen Low tension half the Pearl and Allah Pearl. That's based attack frozen uphill which is monitor. Perot is in a pro which is provisional moser pro. Which is UNIV- ask Berendo Pearl which is a SEON QUINTA PRO. Which is accurate. Pearl Ram Appeal. Which is out as TRENDALL APPREL? Which is Maverick and Stiglitz atone which is a vandy? Ah you see that advertise a lot so just just keep that in mind. I might want to go over your medications with your primary care. Provider the Sea of Anything IS RE interfere with your immune system and as we talked about eighty percent of your immune system is in your gut and we have to keep our good happy and we have to keep. Fru We forget about the microbiome on our skin from Washington. Hand sanitizers very important. We forget about the microbiome and our math. Our gum very important So with that I think Tobias Segal from Promo Life May Have something to say about that and With that I wanted to do that Tobias. Welcome to Dr. Ron unfiltered uncensored. Hey Dr on. How's it going today? How are you doing? We're doing good and I'm I'm so happy you could make it because after today there's been fourth week in a row. We've we`ve. We've talked about the corona virus that Kobe nineteen. I've talked about the testing. How accurate was just because you have a positive test does not mean you have the virus. We talked about last week. the the Colloidal silver we're talking about everything in between and now we're taking you. You're you're the you're the Icing on the cake talk about ozone and I sent you are right I already. That's that's that's a good article that just came out about it. Yeah so the titles. They article that we're talking about ladies and gentlemen is called a plausible quote Unquote Penny costing effective treatment for Corona Virus Dash Ozone therapy written by. I guess a giant in the field Dr Rowen or Wfan and another physician. Howard root robbers looks like for Deiontrez so You know it it. It's good toby toby. I'M GONNA just to turn it over to you and and maybe you can lead us through. What is what is Ozone. And and doesn't affect our immunity. That doesn't kill. Boggs is and things of that nature okay with you so right absolutely so so I did have a talk with One of the guys. That just wrote that article just recently and we tried to establish a really good understanding as far as how ozone does work with Eliminating or helping our bodies deal with these viruses so it's actually a really simple concept on why ozone affected dealing with the corona virus. So if you if you take a look at that virus it's a ball and it has all these little knobs at the basically think of those knobs as like its arms and legs okay so all those arms and legs are attached to the ball. They're really weak. Stingl on unless assault Senator James Bond. And what happens when you introduce ozone into the picture or to the virus? What that what that. What ozone does it strips an electron away from the virus. And what's basically happening? Is knocking off those arms and legs so the viruses still technically alive and still functioning but it can't grab onto anything and reproduce or do anything so it's it's essentially deactivated so ozone has the ability to simply strip and electron away and deactivate while the activating the virus. And that's why it's such a simple easy method for Treatment For especially for viral conditioning I mean it's it's kind of a no brainer like we. We do a lot when it was on therapy business and You know we're saying people that you know like who are actively looking for something that'll work you know getting into therapy for the first time and you know it is. It's it's really crazy right now. how many people are wanting to do this and you know we love seeing that but at the same time you know we are. You know worried that you know if you know the amount of people wanted to get into this at one time and it's tough because we try to educate our customers on how to do everything and it's exciting at the same time absolutely I mean and there's something that You know I don. I don't think the big farmers going to get into it. I don't know that they can make any money in this. And as you know sell twenty eight trillion dollars worth of it But how about some basics about ozone I have the elite and some of my friends Dr Jerry. When he was here he bought the reap Da Do you need a generator to make ozone? Do you need a generator to make Drinking water with those Well yeah absolutely. So what we're doing. We need a device devices the generator. And all that generators doing it's converting the gas that oxygen that you get from an oxygen bottle turning it into ozone so oxygen is too and so what we're doing is converting that? Oh two to three an open. Three is essentially called activated oxygen. So it's a very unstable form of oxygen. That has a jerry short half life but the advantage with ozone is much more absorbable into the body But it's also has nominal Germinal Effects It can really help reduce inflammation Used properly I mean. Obviously we're seeing a lot of people using it were viral issues. And how about drinking it? what's your experience from your customers about. Ozone Warner those than they voted racing drinking water in my opinion and a great thing to do especially when dealing with like All the the colds and flus out there even the corona virus. You know if you have it in your throat You know ozone is going to eliminate it it's GONNA kill it essentially contact And that and that really boils down to one other thing that you can use the water for you can use it for sanitizing surfaces Roy probably everybody's aware no hand sanitizer out there people than buying it up But you know you can take on Water. You can wash your hands. And I guarantee you it's GonNa be probably more effective hannitized and healthier for your body at the same time so You know ozone water can be. You can drink it. You can mouthwash that you can. You can actually take it. And you know you know as long as you take. Distilled water heated up a little bit. You can open it water you can use it at a. Netti pot for You can you know. There's so many cool things you can do with that In regards to you know staying safe It's almost endless in my opinion. Yeah I mean there. There's two good real good tips. I mean if you don't have access to colloidal silver and So Koydo silver ozone water. Those native water. I mean. I you vote my mind up a little bit about even spraying at around. How how long was he goes? Native order have sufficient amount of ozone and Tobias. Well I mean if you're spraying it it's GonNa it's GONNA dissipate pretty quickly once it spray but one but when you're opening in the water You know you can get a decent amount of ozone in water and you know it'll last for you know probably thirty to thirty minutes to an hour. I would say it's going to have that potent effect for up to an hour and a way to extend that is by sticking that ball of the ocean the water into the refrigerator. That's going to extend the life even more I was talking to a dentistry and then he reminded me about the microbial the mouth and then there earlier this this year we talked about ozone dentistry. Can you give us any information on that area? Yeah so ozone obviously so. We have a lot of different types of bacteria in our mouth and the ozone yes. That's GonNa kill the good and the bad cereal but what we're what we're seeing in regards to ozone is the good bacteria comes back so much faster than the bad bacteria so like if you look at like the use of antibiotics Ozone you know the Ba- the good bacteria it comes back much slower. Where when you use ozone gonNA come back much faster You know ozone is a powerful sterilizer I mean something. You can use daily. You can donate water mouthwashes for for keeping your teeth and gums health healthy and we all have to be aware like you know our health. Our mouth health plays a big role in the overall health and our body. And you know it's so important stay you know to stay up on that and keep keep you know. Keep your mouth healthy. I think that's a that's a point that we don't talk enough about on this podcast about the How your mouth influences your health? The net your teeth are only like ten or fifteen percent of the total service area of your mouth and You know you have your gums your palate. You're both sides of your tongue. Your cheeks and brushing your teeth alone is not enough anymore. You agree I completely agree. I mean honestly you know with all the the like we just don't eat get enough for us for that to be the case anymore. Like the you know you. You've gotta you know we're just costly putting chemicals processed foods You know probably people. Who are you know not alkaline enough? Try to sick. You know our our our our whole you know who knows if we have an autoimmune disease or anything like that you know you've gotta keep that That mouth healthy. Your teeth are there for a reason. And we've got to make sure that we keep them there but I mean obviously there's going to be circumstances where that possible but anything we can do to help Is One step in the right direction. Okay and Leasing Jim. An therapy has been around for a long long long time. Dr Out of Warburg or two time Nobel Prize winner talked about the supplying oxygen to the body for various infections and cancer. And there's lots of lots of use in Europe For some reason except for a few senators Dr Shellenberger Dr Rowen and and some other senators. They you know I. I don't think it's being used to its maximum and I I don't know the reason But it does have a lot of Interest in anti-aging Fighting Infections Fighting Cancer. I mean you're not supposed to talk about that but there are lots of articles out there that it does that. It does do that by you. Know may changing giving having so much oxygen available that the Cancer which doesn't like oxygen goes away so But getting back to your immune system so ozone can in Increase Your immunities true. Well I mean it's it's giving your body not like it's helping. I mean it definitely helps you. I think what it's really awesome. It's reducing that inflammation and it's it's also viewed as an immune modulator. So you know it's balancing everything. It's it's really giving a balancing effect which is gonNA live your body to function much more effectively and also as you get that ozone level in your body and if you do run into viruses like Tobin nineteen you know. That's essentially what it's doing is it's You know knocking off that electron and deactivating these viruses and so You know it's just. It's another tool in the box that can be used. I mean obviously good stay hydrated. Take your supplements such as your seize your vitamin DS. You know anything to keep your you know your immune system properly functioning and you know I mean you should be okay. I mean a a very bad virus. It's just if you have underlying health conditions. That's the that's the problem. So Medical Grain Ozone Is What we're talking about. Stimulates production of certain enzymes in the way bring? That up is because A long time friend of this show Dr Wong who prior who has the most potent systemic enzyme Aramco's I- messes and the enzyme is also will break down this sixty being Lincoln is corona virus. And that's what does does also according to that article and the ozone can can also produce cytokines which enhancer immune system's response to stress. So I think Tobias I'm thinking that ozone and and I messaged because it is a strongest I'm producers in the world right now. What a what. A one two punch for this virus. Well Yeah I mean absolutely I mean. It's a no brainer. I mean and the here's the cool thing ozone and this is what people don't realize like supplements expire supplements. You can take them. They'll run out once. You have an ozone generator. All you have to have an oxygen bottle or you know. And that's that's so easy to get filled. I mean you literally have this device that makes ozone for as long as you need it to be there. I mean these things are well built. They don't go bad. You know we have people who use who use ozone every day. We have people who pull out their machine every couple of years. And that's just that's just how it works. I mean having it around I mean if you're a proper out there I mean this is one of the best that you can have a proper in my opinion because it is basically something that'll help get you through those times. You know without having to rely on supplements x being delivered or supplements expiring or going bad. I think it's a no brainer. So Ladies and gentlemen we're talking Tobias Segal from the company Prima life there eight hundred numbers eight seven four two three four zero four eight eight seven four two three four four evergreen website. I hadn't visited in a while and I'm noticing a lot of good in new products. I think it's worth the visit ladies and Gentlemen Promo Life Dot Com P. R. O. M. O. L. I. F. E. DOT COM. And see what he has to offer And maybe To buy nor fee little something. If you say you heard it here on this program but all all like everybody out so nice Thank you I I just from that on. I'm sorry but you know and we want to get everybody healthy absolute no. That's our goal and I mean we're we're here to help and we. We try our best to educational videos. instructional videos on how to use this. Because my my philosophy is you have an ozone machine but if you don't know how to use it what good is it so Having the tools and the knowledge to understand how it works and to use it properly is is also what is needed in order to stay healthy. Okay so ladies and gentlemen there I. I see familiar. Toby excuse me for C. Familiar phone number on the board here. And I'm GonNa just see if it's a doctor. Friend of mine's Doctor Zola. Yet I thought I thought I recognized that number. How you doing? Doc I'm I was a big proponent of oxygenation there's another machine I wanted to ask you about. What do you think about? Shane called. Like a Photon sounding. Supposedly Creates ozone within our own body as seen some doctors. Have this insane holding the hand. You can actually mel it without an ozone generator. What what is your perspective on that by So that's that's a I look at more of that as like a limb system so it helps move the bodies Lynch system around as well and so yeah you can definitely smell the ozone produced So it's these little ones and when you move along the body it just helps. It helps get that wind system and obviously if you get that limp system moving. Guess what else you're doing. You're getting your detox pathways. Open your detoxing better. So yeah I mean every these all these tools out there they play different roles so you know one might help with a specific type of detoxification ozone might play a role in getting the ozone into the body to kill those viruses or deactivate those viruses. you know. They all have their role and in my opinion they all have a have a symbiotic relationship. They work really well together. So a lot of doctors across the country looking to get into real quick to help all these patients who I mean. There's an opportunity to help a lot of people that it. Yeah there is. I mean I mean. There's definitely a huge opportunity to for doctors to help patients with ozone on as long as long as the patients can get to the doctor. That's that's the thing and so when that can't happen the second best thing is to have this at your home in order to use one of the one of the big doctors that I was talking to recently. Who's a huge advocate for ozone I mean he told me. Say Straight up. He's like you know one of the therapies. That's GONNA work. Great and fighting. These viruses is rectal infiltration. That's where we it's basically like a gas. I don't know where we instead of putting water up our ask we're GONNA put about security we're GONNA put ozone gas and that's GonNa absorb through all the blood vessels and get distributed through the body very effectively and so That's a really powerful tool that anybody can do in their home if they cannot make if they can't get to somebody who can provide the treatment and that that's dot doc Dr Mike Let. Let's just go one further? Then we'll get back with you. Okay I just want to get to buys a talk about the different routes of administration of of ozone because My my preferred route is director of Latian I did not tolerate the Ears relations so well but what do most of your clients Which route are they using and Yeah okay so so. Rentals is definitely the method of choice for the fastest most effective way to administer it was to the body S doing it at home for women. They can do vaginal placing. That's that's pretty effective as well Drinking water is is decent. I always like to say think about it from taking oral medications to taking up a rectal. Medications suppositories will do about a four to five times better job distributing the medications the body. So I always like to say recommendations about four to five times better drinking and drinking the water Now if you if you're doing a rectal how many CC's of Ozone de recommend that and what concentration well typically If you can try to get at least two hundred ideally more. I mean I would prefer to see people get five hundred at least now just boils down to how much how many feces you can sit up there. everybody's different as far as how much if they have compaction but as far as the concentration we'd like to see concentration range anywhere from like twenty. That's on the low end all the way up to forty to forty five gamma and that's GonNa be on the higher end of the concentration scale so somewhere on number three on the a elite Is like thirty to thirty four. I think if I remember correctly those correct so yeah and I'll let me explain a little bit better so everybody can understand so we like to take a concentration range from zero to hundred and so one hundred being the Max. Zero being the least amount of ozone so These machines that's that's very that's kind of within the range and so we want to see the concentration on these machine to between twenty and forty the adequate amount of ozone doing rectal deflation. Okay and the Tha- Tha- that's easy for everybody direct to understand and ladies and gentlemen if you have the From a life machine is three clicks on the Regulator of oxygen and number. Three on the on the elite. And there you got it. I mean I to me. It's Kinda simple and fill up your syringes or your or your installation bags. All right so that's the preferred way. Although if people don't WanNa do that if Asia's get your listeners. Get Your Device. They can do it other ways eventually. They see if they can tolerate the ear. The irregular away Yeah right and that that really and then how about using a syringe of ozone in the mouth You know that's you know. I mean you gotta be careful when you open your mouth because you don't want accidentally like take a big with of ozone because you know that it's at a pretty decent concentration your mouth. You're putting the syringe in there so you know if you'RE GONNA do it. Just be careful you know. Make sure you're holding your breath while you do that but that is a phenomenal way to administer on especially for gum health and teeth. Health is get that gas directly onto those teeth and the gums and that can really provide a lot of benefit. Yeah just don't inhale. Okay Dr Mike. Any another questions. I interrupted you for for Tobias. I'm just curious gentleman. How hyperbaric chambers or relatives? That's driving that oxygen into the tissue south. Hi How mu- How? Well that's a really good question okay So I there's a I tried to explain it in a really easy format and so I I like to look at owned by itself and oxygen by itself in order to explain it so ozone if you look at the soy ability factor of ozone and oxygen. That's the best way to look at it. So ozone as a very very soluble in water compared to oxygen. I'd say about twenty to thirty times more soluble in water than than oxygen itself. And so think about like this when you're when you're doing like a hyperbaric chamber with oxygen to put your body under pressure to force that oxygen in your body absorbs it when you're dealing with ozone and you're and if you're taking an ozone sauna where your body starts to sweat you have liquid that's coming out of your body ozone so soluble liquid that it literally will just penetrate and go into your body that way and so. I look at I look at a zone. Sauna versus a hyperbaric chamber as being somewhat similar as far as how the ozone and oxygen can absorb into the system. You know and you you said that same thing. You told us a year ago you're consistent and it makes so much sense that really It right Mike. I find brilliant excellent. Yeah it is and and we have Listeners who I don't. I don't know where THEY BOUGHT THEIR SAUNA. But they have those on an overly. They got him from Tobias but they just feel fantastic. You know the sweating plus getting the extra oxygen. I mean they're ready to rock and roll when they come out of there so fact that's GonNa be my next purchases. I just moved into an apartment from a home so I I'm I'm looking at the that'll be next time. I talked to Tobias because it it it. It's makes so much sense makes so much sense and it's a little bit easier. I know hyperbaric chambers are great but they definitely have their you know. They're they're usually more expensive. Not that that's an issue for some people but you know there's also that claustrophobic aspect that people have to do with and you know you are putting yourself under pressure and you do have to understand how that how that works. And so It's not for everybody and there was a love the fact that there's options. I think I think that's just the greatest way to do things one. That'd be better for another person and then it'd be better for another person as long as there's options that's really matters and that's a great word to it's a good word to live by when things look bad and remember there are options and for treatment. That's why we keep keep stressing you're the CEO of your own body. Look at your and everybody has to do that. If we had Ralph Morrison here for the from Sloan Kettering. He said you know. Don't rush into anything. You have options. You just disgusted. Look at your options before you undergo any kind of treatment so even in that situation you do have an option. I think it's a great word to To to remember all right Tobia so ozone is available from your company May with an oxygen tank about oxygen Concentrate there's Oxygen concentrations are a I. I want to go over the difference. You know before I recommend it Okay oxygen concentrator produced anywhere from ninety ninety five percents. An oxygen tank is ninety nine percent so you are going to have a higher quality of oxygen tank. But that doesn't mean that concentrator is bad. I mean the cost fares will countries will produce a good quality oxygen. And it's important for the user to you know to understand that the advantage with concentrates are they're easy to get and you don't have to worry about getting a result for for some people that really can only that sometimes the only option that they have and you know if that's your only option that's still a great option to go. The only thing I have to make people aware with concentrator. Is You have to make sure if you're going to buy a concert. Make sure that purity is at that ninety ninety five percent a lot of times when you buy a used concentrator out there. That's been sitting around for a number of years that concentrator that concentration start to drop considerably. And you might only be getting fifty to sixty percent oxygen and that's not gonna cut it with those on therapy so if you are going to buy oxygen concentrator make sure it's been recently tested so you know that the concentration is at that ninety to ninety five percent level. That's great advice all right then and that that would be mainly used what you're saying the sauna or not not for the reckless ablation. I mean they would have a different application or not my wrong or I mean I saw a great application. You know we have. There are a lot of people who have used concentrated was for it but like I keep stressing you have to make sure it's at that higher concentration if you're gonna do it so you know. And that's why most people typically go tanks because they don't have to worry about that could deal with you know you know knowing that that that correct concentration but You know overall I mean you know. It's I looked at it like this. If you don't have access to a tank oxygen concentrations. It's better to use a concert concentrator than nothing at all. And you know it's it's still going to give you a very high quality I personally believe that you know. They're they have. They have their purpose. They they you know. It's a great for a lot of people based upon their situation. I see another doctor. Lart logging on here. Dr Howard any any questions for Tobias Odom at this point I just I. I got hung up. I got back late so okay. Well he was just talking about the ozone and the records of Asian and a oxygen the oxygen the quality of oxygen to us with the ozone. And how it can be used for this cove in nineteen and as it turns out that I have Dr. My friends who happened to call into. I've known for a long now Mike about five six years with the led. Yes yes yes let me. I can't believe how how fast time flies when I go crazy time. Flies in fact I'm in del Rey so I'd like to see you as a great Besides that gentleman. I'm curious to know about what other standards. What other typical indications are there for oxygen or ozone therapy in the typical protocol in Regenerative Medicine Practice So basically okay. So you know. I like to describe it like this. So not only is ozone really good for you know for treating bacterial issues viral issues in the body. But it's also really good for recovery. Okay so your body tends to do really well with ozone like I like to use an example with professional athletes. Just so you know. They're they're working out and they are meetings to recover faster. A lot of them will go to devote his therapy and they recover much faster from working out and so just think about that from like somebody who has maybe sick or something like that. You know if if an athlete can recover faster after you know working out. Why can't a sick person recover faster from doing them? And that's the that's the way I look at it like ozone is it doesn't really discriminate. It just basically will make you. I view it as a way to get you there faster. If that makes sense my and is a great way and the medical use of Ozone. I mean they use it in vascular disease strokes atherosclerosis Venus insufficiency. I made a list. Cancer Acute and chronic viral diseases. Ulcers may be used. You know stasis ulcer you can bag it and use ozone infected wounds gangrene cruises all sort of colitis disc problems and as we talked about it you. Dentistry has a disinfected There's some Russian and French articles out there in the tree using it in the treatment of Alzheimer's Disease Because of circulatory enhancer effect and sell rejuvenation effects high high concentrations at which they say exhibits a stranger recital effect by oxidative destruction. I mean it really has a plethora of uses and the the downside of it is. He's just don't want to inhale it Now there's lots of lots of different you know if you inhale it Dr Shellenberger says you just take a lot of vitamin C. And and you'll be all right you know. I've never had that experience. I don't know anybody that has experienced of yes. Well I mean. You definitely don't want to inhale a lot of it but my my rule is if you're coughing you probably inhale too much of it. Okay so if you develop that irritation I mean honestly I love the way it was. It SMELLS FRESH. And it's all good so you know and too many people that. I talked to tell me this like ever since I started running my own air purifier. In the house you don't have to run at high levels. You just have to keep running way. They they time and time again. Come back and say yeah. We're having gotten flu this year. At all like everybody's been staying much much healthier so that little bit of ozone in the air isn't going to affect your is not gonNa Affect your respiratory system but if you start to cough that's where you definitely have to tone it down You know breathing. It periodically is okay. I mean it's it's not gonNa like people people think of Arizona as this toxic dangerous thing. Yeah I mean. In high concentrations it is and same with everything. I can drink too much water. It's toxic so it's all about managing the level of ozone to alone a point where your body can effectively utilize it. That's that's a good point really is an and something else that I want to stress. Everything we talk about we talk about OP- alternative or complementary and and those can be a complement to traditional allopathic doctors to if they find an antibiotic isn't working so good you know I think some ozone breaking down that that Shell suddenly make those Edebali Work better and use less of a dose of they'd be less toxic so it can be our path physicians. That's absolutely correct. I mean ozone can help remove biofilm. Which essentially will help that antibiotic work better too so I mean but the the thing that I really like to stress with everybody you know. Don't don't think ozone your number one go to for everything. You still have to eat healthy. You still have to take your stuff You know don't think that you can cheat because you ozone You know exercise to maintain a healthy diet. And that's that's also what's GonNa help you out. Good advice I mean. It is part of a program to be healthy pure air. Pure water exercise restorative sleep And a Mediterranean type. Die which I've been. I keep coming back to over my eighty years of life here Just coming back to the Mediterranean Diet. That don't don't eliminate any food groups and You know and that's that's that's part of what they call Listrik living. There's no I'm GONNA ask Michael. He has any more questions that they were Gonna. Just do a summer. You know Michael. Do you have any questions for Tobias? What you said something very interesting around. You're saying it just prevents oxidative destruction which we all know that's aging right there. So they exactly. This is slowing aging down. It's Anti Aging Medicine. Is His life extension. Medicine is helping you live longer. It's pushing biological clock out more years right. Exactly it's really good. You know. That's why I jumped on this call because I find it fascinating. Well thank you. I I want to this device and I wanna I wanNA definitely talk about the anti-ageing effect and I think that is really important. So yeah so so. The way it works is our bodies actually. Are you know we're a WE'RE GONNA age no matter what okay you know and what boils down to is? The true aging like are true age. And so as you know as our body ages people who are unhealthy are gonNA h faster. So what ozone's doing is keeping our body at that normal or at that appropriate level that we should be aging asked. So if you're unhealthy you're GONNA as much faster but if you do ozone yes we are technically flooring that aging downward slowing it down to what it should be at that sense. Yeah in fact I'm writing a book Mike Doctrines solely. It's going to die younger than old age. And I as can call up and and I I. I have to put a chapter in on ozone because Of his anti-aging effects. They just have to do that. So that's what. I'm working on now so tobias any any any any stop partying words. Because I learned we were doing these podcasts. For an hour an hour and a half but are it looks like the my aging audience has a short attention span. So I I would like to say you know. Don't be you know go be. Don't be afraid to try ozone. Sounds Kinda weird? It's it's really simple and it's really fun and you know you're gonNA find a tremendous amount of benefit from it. You know I always loved the example of my. My my mother-in-law you know and my father-in-law were kind of skeptical on this whole thing. And they were really apprehensive about it and then they saw work. Now they're the ones doing the ozone so it it can get anybody can get into it and find benefit from it and you know you just have to believe in it and believe in yourself that you can do it and if you believe in it you're GonNa be successful with it. Excellent vice so he's a gentleman. We have been discussing ozone therapy with Tobias Segal. His company is Promo Life. Other eight hundred number is eight seven four. Two three four four asked for Tobias. Tell me her about the ozone on on Dr Ronald filtered on sensitive. Just say Dr Ron and talked to him about getting set up with With a package He and he'll give you one that'll fit your Pocketbook. And because there's they're all prices and he gives a great guarantee. I know my first unit had a problem and I didn't even know Tobias at that time and you know he just said I'll pick it up and send a new went out the next day. I mean you will not have a problem I I've gotten to know this company and My I had a co host who promoted them also and loves this company. Jerry Smith he sells the the youth is still sells. One is website so tobias. I WanNa thank you. I think you've done a great service For our audience. And you did hook me up with Dr Mike Xueliang again which. I haven't talked to him quite a while. So I wanNA thank you for that also and we will. We will be at this conversation again. Thank you Tobias and have a great night are on. Hey take so much. Well that was tobias. Segal Ladies and gentlemen and Just a great having them on the program He's been here before and he'll he will return against ladies and gentlemen please While we're gone through this Kobe nineteen follow your got okay The best measure of your immune health can be found in the gut. Bacteria like we've been talking about and all the bacteria in your body make up your microbiome. The right types of Food Leafy Greens lean proteins promote the growth of good bacteria or microflora and our systems and reduce inflammation the wrong type of foods. Too much sugar to be in in particular they can feel information making you susceptible to other diseases hormone imbalance okay. So sometimes we only think of our gut when we're having issues. But most of our most of our immune system seventy to eighty percent of it is located in our Gi track. And please don't be afraid of the sun suck up some of that song please. That vitamin D That you get through your skin from sunlight but you know what you can find it in fresh fish in as has tremendous functions in your body and probably a vitamin D was sold. Today would probably be a hormone is involved so many functions that your body so in fact that Dr Collins says I just happened to see his quote here. It's actually more of a hormone than a vitamin and function. Research suggests vitamin D has both anti microbial and anti viral potentials in the body. The most potent impact is shown. Vitamin D levels are boosted when they are found low. And by the way. That's something we've talked about. I want you to remember. That normal doesn't mean optimal Depending on the lab normal vitamin D levels could be twenty five to seventy so. If you're twenty seven at your physician might say your normal. But that's not optimal you. WanNa be fifty to seventy okay so you WANNA go for optimal levels not so-called Normal levels and please stay hydrated. Hopefully you're making ozone night at water just drink throughout the day you can't overdose on it Most people would say that you know a goal would be drink half of your body weight in ounces if you weigh a hundred pounds fifty ounces a day might be the war to you you you would need and this. This virus does not like hydration so you WanNa stay hydrated and you know what dehydration is sometimes of course of afternoon fatigue and muscle cramps. Hydration is is really important For Your General Health. While you're we're fighting this so called pandemic and make food your medicine ladies. Gentlemen Take Care of yourself. De-stress turn the television alternatives off. We have those little little we can do about any of this right now. Anyway so keep ourselves and family healthy looking ozone therapy beat the CEO and do your own research look into ozone therapy and if you can see your way to to getting it to talk to tobias it Promo Life and see how you can fit it into your life. So Ladies and gentlemen Really had a good discussion today with Tobias Segal and next week we will just wrap up everything on Just holistic living and. There's so much to talk about so much News is coming out on the corona virus. I is four weeks in a row. Now we've talked about something related to Code. Nineteen that's more People are diagnosed with it and That that means the bottom number two denominator gets bigger. The death toll will be less as a percentage. So hopefully we'll start wrapping up and it seems that anything over seventy six degrees kills viruses whether it's warmer We can get through this and get our lives and Economy back to where it should be. We still live in the greatest country in the world So I thank you remember We have a facebook page like the runoff filtered uncensored. We have a youtube page now. Dr Ron and all of these episodes Get posted to you too. We are on Alexa we're on apple podcast. Google podcast Pandora spotify almost anyone. That's out there. 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 Reacting to Sixers-Clippers Deal Involving Tobias Harris, Previewing the 2019 NBA Trade Deadline and Breaking Down the 10 Players Who Were Mentioned Most in Trade Rumors This Week (Ep. 128)

The HoopsHype Podcast With Alex Kennedy

1:16:55 hr | 1 year ago

Reacting to Sixers-Clippers Deal Involving Tobias Harris, Previewing the 2019 NBA Trade Deadline and Breaking Down the 10 Players Who Were Mentioned Most in Trade Rumors This Week (Ep. 128)

"Space some regions are vast empty other areas we call closets. Fortunately, Kevin from the container store has answers. Right. Kevin. What gives you the power over space? I'd say alpha, customizable, closets with free, design and Elvis adjustable shelving and drawers, I can create space in any size closet. Kevin master of space and closets or just Kevin. Plus right now, save thirty percent on elephant installation and earn up to five hundred dollars in credit through February tenth at the container store where space comes from who wears music coming from. Welcome to hoops hype podcast. My name is Alex Kennedy and joining me today to break down a trade that actually just happened as well. As some other trade deadline news at rumors is my hoops hype colleague franker Beena, Frank what's being great Alex almost during in the morning, but I got a freaking jolts advantage. And like I chunked a coffee after I check my phone for one last time tonight. I see back to back bombs from shops and from wool Zhang Tobias. Harris freaking traded Tobias Harris. This is I love this leak so much it can be three in the morning. And then, you know, NBA nerds like you. And I just rushed our laptops to record a podcast. This league is the best for anyone who missed the trade. The Los Angeles Clippers are trading to bias areas. Bo-bottle Ianovich and Mike Scott to the Sixers for Landry. Shamet Wilson Chandler, Mike Scala and a two thousand twenty first rounder and a two thousand twenty one unprotected first rounder via Miami and then to second rounders. So that's the whole deal. Whenever I saw Tobias Harris is the first jumps out, obviously. Because I mean, the is having a monster year he has been useful about as a possible all stars have because he's playing so well, he's averaging twenty point seven points seven point, nine rebounds, two point seven assists, two threes per game. He's been very efficient to he shooting. Forty nine point three percent from the field for a two point two percent from three point range. He's in the seventy third percentile in isolation scoring and actually this is interesting to me. I tweeted this out because whenever Jimmy Butler got traded to the Philadelphia. Seventy Sixers I and cover the team and spent two days around them. It was ballers first time, you know, getting into Philly meeting everyone and all of that. And one thing that to me was dwelling beat said, we have something now that we never had before someone to create their own shots and make shots off the dribble. And that was right. You know, he was talking about Butler's ability to create for himself, and now with Tobias Harris a guy that has I mentioned is so good ice. Oh situations. And really hasn't been doing this whole career. He's always been a guy that can score for himself, and you know, create buckets. I cover him in Orlando for a while. So I got to know Tobias pretty well. He's the kind of guy that really can carry an offense. But on top of that he's also a guy that knows his role and is a really good locker room guy. You know, you look at Jimmy Butler, and some of the issues that have popped up there where you have a number of these alpha males in Philly and everyone wants the ball. Everyone wants attention in that kind of thing to buys the exact opposite of that to by a quiet guy. He's he's going to be absolutely fine being the third or fourth star on this team. But I think he still such an underrated talent. So this is kind of move that people like you, and I freak out over because we see how good this team could be, you know, whereas a casual fan may here Tobias Harris and think oh, I don't really know what drives game. But how excited are you for this move because I look at it. And I'm wondering, okay, first of all how can the Sixers team be Tobias areas is a perfect fit because he cannot not only score the ball off the dribble. But he is so great at catching shooting opportunities. You shooting forty two point two. Percent from three which is already three points. He was a huge refill already. You add to things that they absolutely needed. He's only twenty six years old. So don't expect any kind of declined. They could resign him the summer. He's at unrestricted free agent this summer. So they could resign him. This is a very very interesting move. And if I'm the if I'm a team like the Toronto Raptors or Milwaukee Bucks Indiana Pacers that was competing with Philly and near the top of the Eastern Conference. I hate this right now. Absolutely. I mean, what a train like just I don't know where to land the guy like Tobias hairs. I saw I saw a prominent media member I won't name that I want to trash anyone. But I saw someone say, oh, how did Jerry West managed to finagle two first round picks Tobias? He said for a non all star. But if Tobias Harris I played his this season in the Eastern Conference. He would have easily been an all star like without a doubt. So that's to me. It's ridiculous, Malcolm Maui. He's absolutely an all star level talent in the NBA. Just looking through his numbers on synergy, which ranks players based on a play types. Is a pick and roll ball ham their spot of shooting in transition scoring how much they produce per possession. Does looking through his ratings Tobias eras as a pickerel by handler. He's in the very good range. The eighty percent tile spot up shooting, which to me is the most important part of his package as far as what he's gonna bring for Philadelphia. He's a mid ninety fifth percentile among players who have attempted at least one hundred fifty spot of jumpers Tobias Harris ranks fifth with one point two eight points or possession as a team to Sixers. They might be tops in in three point shooting. But they are twenty first and spot up shooting production as your appoint nine nine points or possession. So to me, it's going to be a huge huge of this. And for them for a team that is built around and beat who does a knockdown that many threes and Ben Simmons who we know doesn't like shooting them. I think obviously I like the bowler pick mortgage. He's a legitimate NBA cholera player, but fit wise, I think this is excellent excellent fit and even besides those two very distinct play types in isolation. Like, you mentioned earlier seventieth there percents out very good as opposed. Score. Very good eightieth eighty percents. I'll coming up screens and pulling up for shots or driving on and hitting Florida's very good seventy seventy nine percentile on office of rebounds put backs. He's excellent. He can even as I mentioned earlier pick and roll binders in eighty first percentile, he can even set the pick and roll. And in that play type he's in the ninety nine percents. I also his numbers are off the charts as a score maybe not the best defender, but playing next to Embiid bowler and Simmons can mask suffer anyone. So I think it's an excellent excellent Fe and just one through five like look at that roster. I mean, maybe the bench is a little bit weaker. Now you and I still didn't have some pretty good pieces there in TJ McConnell, and John Bolden and a Korkmaz's wanted to five their starting lineup is Ben Simmons JJ Rettig Tobias Harris Jimmy Butler, Joel Embiid like that's some NBA two K nineteen crappy and all it doesn't make. It's just so good. Like, I think this is a this is a huge deal for a minute. I think it really could push to make a deeper playoff run. And they could have before they made it. Yeah. This is it's it's incredible move for them and elder freaking brand. I mean, the guy is a first time GM and he's playing a few years ago. Now, he's running the Sixers front office. I mean, what a job he's done pulling off the Jimmy Butler trade, and now this I mean, I love this move for Philly. And I think it's one of those moves where I feel like in the next few days, you're going to hear other executives come out and say, you know, had we known to buy shares available. We would have made an offer we would have stepped up and tried to acquire him seems like one of those kind of moves where not only were, you know, us the media and fans caught off guard. I feel like other executives would love to get in on the Tobias Harris sweepstakes without well, he's been playing and then you know, for the for the clippers. Let's talk about this for this from their perspective for a second. They're getting to really good draft picks the two thousand twenty one Miami first round pick which the Sixers actually died on draft night whenever they made their whole move to get Maceio to give it a became bridges and bringing Zaire Smith. With. That's when that happened. Right. Frank. Absolutely. So they got the two thousand twenty one Miami. I big there. It's unprotected as wash and others have said that is one of the league's most coveted picks because by two thousand twenty one no one's really sure what's gonna be going on in Miami. Couldn't it being a very very high draft pick. So the also. It's looking bleak. Yeah. They don't have much room to improve much flexibility. So you look at that pick in two thousand twenty one's not too far off. It's unprotected. If that pay wins the lottery, they still get it the clippers do so they get it very attractive pick there. They also get a pick from the clippers a two thousand twenty first round pick. Now that is lottery protected basically it will be lottery protected than it would convey as two second round picks in two thousand twenty three two thousand twenty four if it doesn't end up going to them outside the lottery, so they get to for first round picks here. They are also getting a two thousand twenty one two thousand twenty three second round pick. And really the thing that will just saying and others are saying is that Tobias Harris was looking like he can get a maximum of a contract and free agency this summer, something that would have been very difficult for this trip clippers to offer. Given the fact that they want to be in the mix for Kevin Durant. Kobe Leonard all these big name for agents. Their goal is to is to acquire. Two stars this summer. And part of me wonders if this is kind of a backwards way of thinking, maybe, you know, if you have to buy Harris, at least you re signed him and have a centerpiece going forward if you miss on star free agents, but this is then being bowled. I think this is them being confident that they're going to get someone big in free agency this summer, and they don't need to buy as a backup plan or a safety net. And so yeah, I mean, this is them basically saying we're going all in on this off season. And and rebuilding our team. You know, they were team that was that was playing really well throughout this year. They were fighting for the playoffs. They're currently in the eighth seed in the eastern cocker. I'm sorry. The Western Conference they were only three and a half games back from the fourth seed so all year long. They've been a team that really has exceeded expectations and done a good job with this move though. I think you're seeing okay they're going to shift to being a lottery team and everything is going to become about getting two star players this summer in free agency. So that is their goal here. They I think they wanted to. Get back. Some pieces for Tobias Harris, if they were thinking this summer, we're gonna make other agency moves into buys is gonna walk for nothing. Then that's why you make move like this to get some kind of assets back in a deal. And I mean, you get a guy in Landry chevette who's a really good rookie that it'd play. He's a really good shooter playing really well in Philly would give an opportunity so the clippers are getting draft picks. They're going to be focusing on free agency this summer the Sixers there this summer. They're also going to be focused on free agency. Jimmy, Butler Tobias Harris are both unrestricted free agents and whoa JR. Says that they are planning and budgeting to re-sign and keep their big four initially whenever this was reported people were saying, oh, are they going to re-sign Harrah's instead of Butler Harish is going to be there as a rental, but no they are trying to budget to sign Harris and Butler alongside Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons, and if that happens that core could be scary for years to come. I think they call them in each other. So well, this is gonna be a lot of fun in Philly. So right now, I would say there's a lot of excited about in Philly on the court in an in Los Angeles. There's a lot to be excited about going forward from a team building standpoint. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean for the clippers we have before the trade the Toronto we heard that one of his preferred destinations would have been the clippers quiet, Leonard. And then Anthony Davis also mentioned them as a potential landing spot that he would like to get traded to. So clearly, we're seeing them go all in and try, and they're putting all their into those two baskets, which are pretty good basket put their chips in. So I mean, those are two of the five or six best players in the league. And when you think about it. I mean, you have your twenty nine thousand lottery Paik, you have Miami's twenty twenty one big you have shade just have exam there you have lender. Shemit if you put those together in a package and offer that up to the last two New Orleans, Anthony Davis. That's a pretty good package. I mean, it might not get it done you might need that a little bit more. But that gets you get your foot in the door and gets compensation started. So I totally love this trade for both sides for sure and one thing too. I was talking to an executive right before we started recording this. And they said, you know, are we gonna see reactionary moves from other Eastern Conference teams now. We know that the Tronto raptors, for example, have been active. There was reports that they're having some conversations with other teams. Memphis was brought up as a possibility they were looking at possibly trading. Kyle Lowry Yoenis balance Eunice for Mike. Conley. Markelle all the Milwaukee Bucks are a team that they're playing great basketball right now, and they're number one in the Eastern Conference. But did they make some kind of moved move to try to get better here? The Boston Celtics the Indiana Pacers teams that are near the top of the Eastern Conference. Are they looking at this Philly team now and saying man this team has an amazing core? What can we do to improve? And that may not even have to be through the trademark it that could be through buyouts Frank you, and I were talking about this before we started recording Philly was already attractive situation for for by about players last year. We saw them get Barco Belen Elian Ersan Ilyasova to shooters that really helped them now I think they're going to be even more attractive with that big four because they're still going to need bench guys and guys that can spread. The floor and give them good minutes. So Philly becomes attracted from a bio standpoint, which makes them even scarier. But then you also wonder do easy, Indiana, Boston and Toronto Milwaukee are these teams gonna try to either make a splashy trade that improves a little bit. Or do. They look at the vile market and try to improve their it's always difficult whenever you're talking about teams that are so good. But this kind of move makes a lot of GM's uncomfortable. And they wanna make them they want to make a move of their own sometimes. Yeah. Just want to say thank you Brian James for leaving the Eastern Conference because now feel like teams thinking feel like it's so wide open. Right. They're all going all in this season making crazy trains like this. And it's absolutely as a media member. A fan is just so much fun to watch as far as bio players before they make much sense as they had Landry Shamet backing up JJ rhetoric. But I think a guy that would make a lot of sense now for Philadelphia I've mentioned before for them is Wayne Ellington for Miami. He's out of the rotation in south Florida, but he's still not three point shooter. And around the. Gonna need more bench pieces. I mean, I know I said earlier that I saw McConnell like bold in Korkmaz's. They're going to need to do even of the bench a little bit guy. Like Elliot would be a perfect fit. They're coming off the bench filling the role of what I'm doing for them this year. That's a replacement, man. So right now, Philadelphia's thirty four twenty they are six games back from the top seed Eastern Conference, but didn't playing really good basketball daily. I know they've lost a few games here. And there, but you look at dwelling be you know, he had that slump early in the year. He's playing much better. This is a team that I think is going to be better than their record indicates by the end of the season when they enter the postseason. How does this change your thoughts on the Eastern Conference landscape? Do you think now they're the team to be in the east? You still have Milwaukee Toronto up there. You know is Boston a team that you look at it and think okay, come playoff time. They'll have things figured out when you look at all the teams right now who stands out to you the most once again, I was think LeBron James from the Eastern Conference because the east is just so wide open. It's so like, I have no idea. Yeah. It could be any of obviously the patients fall back not because without throw device standing Pat, and they don't make as much as they could've before. But the books are so good. They're so well coach under bud. Jonathan not to be Arab loves playing the best basketball. Career Middleton's and all star, the raptors are all have Wilander their carry of sorry. Kyle lowry. You have them. Them all those teams at the top of these are so talented, the the one that I thought maybe was lagging behind a little bit. What's philadelphia? I mean, I know they're thirty four and twenty record is still pretty decent. I think we expect maybe a little bit more from them, especially after that ending Butler. But I mean, they're not gonna like behind anymore. This is going to make a huge change for them. I don't know. I wish I could answer your question. More more, more straightforward fashion. I just really don't know. I want to see how this how their bench is going to be if they're going to pick up any additions of the bench to make it a little bit better. Their starting five. I think is easily the best in Eastern Conference research just because they have all the pieces fit together. So well, and you have like four cower players. So it's not really going out on the limb. But I don't know. I mean, Boston is still the team not not the team to beat the teams. I made it the farthest last year is just so I'd open I cannot wait to see how it unfolds right after this went down at agent texted me and said are we going to see the Sixers trade Marquel? Folds for some more. No back court depth, someone who's that's more ready to help today right now if you look at their core TJ McConnell will be their backup. They have more careful. It's still but so much uncertainty surrounding him. They obviously traded chevette Zaire Smith hasn't been able to play this year. There's a talk about him making a comeback soon. But he was there rookie that has not been able to play. He's been out Corey brewer was on. On a ten day deal. He's the longer there. So I think you have to wonder, you know, they have shaken Millan. But is he the guy that you want playing big minutes? Could we see in other move from Philly where they're trading and guy like a Marquel Foltz to a team that you know, maybe has we're tidy patient with him and develop him. And then they get back a veteran contributor that. Can maybe help in the back court. So that you're not relying just on Ben Simmons JJ Redick and TJ McConnell, though, megaton ascents I mean, plus there was another brief little update today from Brett Brown on Marquel. Folds someone asked him to be if he envisions him returning to the team and contributing this year and Brett Brown was like I haven't seen him in a while on an actual basketball court. So I don't know he said, hopefully, I'll be pleasantly surprised which to me was like pretty a pretty damning statement. So what is the price and we heard before they were interested in trading them. I just don't know how open other teams are going to be to train them. A good veteran piece four folds considering we haven't seen him on a basketball court. I don't think he's he's training bass. On on basketball courts yet. I think he's still rehabbing the injury. It's a little bit tricky for sure they won't get anywhere near the valuable. They used up to the draft him. But we'll see. I mean, it's going to be tough. I could definitely maybe a Wayne Ellington for Rockefeller's trade would make sense. But we're going to have to wait and find out. I don't see him helping anything this year though. That's for sure. Yeah. That's where you know. You don't want to give up a guy that was number one overall pick and needle on trade over pennies on the dollar just because I I'm not a big fan. Trading guys with our trade values at an all time, low it would really depend on what's out there in terms of offers like you're saying or if they could try to find someone through the buyout market or different trade that would make more sense, obviously. But we shall see man. This is a very interesting night. We wanted to start by breaking down the Philly LA rumor obser-, I trade I ever remember this point. But we do have other trader words, we want to get to we're going to break down the list that Frank recently put out that features ten players that were mentioned the most intrigued rubers over the past seven days, and we're going to give you guys a little bit of a trade deadline preview. But before we do that. I want to give it quick. Where to our sponsor this episode loop site podcast is brought to you by seatgeek getting tickets online can be far too complicated. There's hundreds of sites out there. You don't really know who to trust? That's why seek is the way to go. They pull millions of tickets into one place. So you can easily find this each you want for a price you're willing to pay. There's nothing quite like being there in person and seek educ loose with the action for great value. Those your favorite NBA team, your favorite comedian favorite musician. Seek will hook you up by searching multiple ticket sites in grading every ticket based on value. They help you immediately identify the best seats fit your budget. Plus every single purchase is fully guaranteed. So you don't have to worry about getting ripped off your shopping with confidence with seek. I actually have the Sieg app in my phone. And they were one of our earliest sponsors here on the podcast. So I downloaded a long time ago. And I still use it. I use it all the time. I recently bought tickets for my brother-in-law for Tampa Bay Lightning game. I usually give out tickets as gifts, it's a super easy app to us. I would definitely recommend it to you guys. And right now. They actually have a special where if you download the seek app and put the promo code hoops hype. In you, get ten dollars off your first seatgeek purchase. So Delo the seek app promo code hoops site, but just like the site, and you get ten dollars off your first seek purchase. I'm excited. Yeah. This is going to drop on Wednesday morning. So if you're listening to this the trade deadline is about a day away day and a half away. And yeah, this has been a really cool series. Basically what we've been doing is every week or two weeks. Frank will go through and count the different number of times. A player has been mentioned on hoops traitor, repay JR. And then going off of that. And basically on the rumor page, we compile all the different rumors and reports and things like that. So it's a really good place to kinda get all your information. So once we kinda count, which players have been mentioned the most in trade rumors, Frank rights, an article and kind of breaks down. Okay. Here are the ten players that have been mentioned the most. And here's the latest information, we have surrounding them and their future. So this is the final one we have ten players. These are the ten players that were mentioned the. Most in trade rumors over the past seven days, there, some big names here some multi all stars. There are some young players that are very attractive trade chips not allow duplicates throughout this series. We we of had that issue where there will be similar players in different episodes. But and this one there's really not many duplicates at all. Which is a lot of fun. So we have ten players. We're going to break down. We're going to talk about whether we think they're going to move, you know, which teams are showing interest, and why there are popping up so much in these trade. Rumors. Okay, frank. So right now, the Lakers and the pelicans are dominating all the headlines because of the Anthony Davis to we've heard rumors of a godfather offer that basically has LA sending everyone in everything to New Orleans for Anthony Davis. And then also taking back Sullivan hill, there'd been a lot of there's there's a lot of Lakers on this list for that reason because there has been so many talks about LA and in New Orleans making a deal number ten on the list is actually young Laker LA take it from here. Who's number ten on our list number times? Probably. The biggest superstar on the list. I'm just kidding. Because from the Lakers back of being men over the he's actually a great run of form recently over his ass twenty plus games that he's averaging around twelve point six boards of or game. Basically, he's come up a couple of times as part of the package that the Lakers would said the pelicans if they came to an agreement with with the for for Anthony Davis at some of the thing is that some of the packages we've seen mentioned or reported include him in some don't so it's kinda hit or miss regardless. The only way he's getting traded in my opinion, as if to the public as part of the deal besides that there's been no other buzz anywhere else. So basically, if if they Detroit happens, then there's a chance he ends up a pelican. Yeah, it seems like that's kind of the train on this list. Either guys that there's one team that you could see them getting del to if that does that's an area doesn't happen. Then they're probably going to stay put. And then there's some guys in this list that seem like they could be on the move. Even if you know one team backs out do they have multiple potential suitors. So yeah, Zubov. Definitely falls into that first category. Where the reasons being mentioned so much is because of these New Orleans talks. And obviously the pelicans they want young talent. Which is why we're hearing, you know, everyone from Brandon Ingram Takao who's to Lonzo ball to Josh heart. You know, there's been multiple different offers, apparently where Lakers are tweaking the offer. So it makes sense that Zubov was included at some point. But yeah, I think the only way we see him traded as if they do in fact Landy Anthony Davis and the pelicans want him in the deal. So he's got an easy one to start out with. But his name is being mentioned a lot number nine. Who is the next player? That is being mentioned the most in trade. Rumors over the last week. Yeah. It's one of his teammates Brandon Ingram. Basically from Brad Turner who covers the Lakers for the LA times. I'm pretty sure who's been it from the beginning with all this. Anthony Davis stuff. His biggest report on the matter came when he said that according to sources privy to the situation the Lakers. Most recent offer included coups MMA, Lonzo Bo Brandon Ingram, Rondo Lance. Beasley two first round pigs for Davidson Solomon hill. So basically, that's the most recent time that Ingram's name come up as come up. And it makes sense. Why the pelicans would come him? You know, he's still just you may not have found his peak form just yet. He hasn't reached its potential. He's nowhere near that. But he's the twenty. He's still just twenty one years old. He's a good ball. Handler. He's gonna finish your around the basket. You know, if he can just get a little more efficient and get to the line. More often I've done three pointers that healthier rate. That's the type of talent that you'd really can build your next great team around the pelicans. So it makes sense why they would call it him in a deal, but like was do box. If a AD falls through it doesn't happen by the deadline on Thursday. Which is I think is starting to trend out a little bit. I think you would agree with that. Then he might then he's not going anywhere else. Because that's the only place name has been connected to. Yeah. I mean, I agree with you. There's been talk about the Lakers feeling pessimistic. They also deals going to get done that may be New Orleans the wait till the off season. And whenever Boston can be involved in the Goshi Sheeran's. If you're the pelicans, though, you look at this offer it's been talked about a lot. I think now we all know it's legit because it's been put out there by not only Brad Turner Adrian hoax. Now's he confirmed. It other reporters that are in LA confirmed. It basically there was this. Godfather offer with Ingram and coups Ma and ball. There is a few different changes. After that. Some of them said they were offering two first round picks. The pelicans tried to counter and get four first round picks. I look at this. You know, with Dell Dem's I think I'm really shocked that if that offer was out there. I'm shocked that they didn't jump on it. Maybe they're thinking, look, you know, it's going to be there until Thursday. Anyway, maybe that's what they were thinking. Now, obviously there have been some reports of the Lakers pulled out and are no longer negotiating. And that's all that happens. We see that a lot of the NBA who knows if that's real. But are you surprised that that if that offer was out there, are you surprised Dem's didn't take it? And his is this the kind of thing where if it comes out head that was the offer. And then you know, they wait until the off season and dense can't get anything close to that. That's a career. You're ruining move. Well, first of all has cream. I had already be kind of ruined since it's come to this that their best player and one of the best place in the league wants to leave after giving you seven years to build a good team around them. So I think his career might be as a at least for the time being, but it's like it's not trending in the right direction. And besides that. I also think the whole we're pulling out of trade talks. It's definitely major posturing because they've they'll pick up the phone tomorrow morning and said, okay. And it's just nice discuss a way around is getting get this done that entire package will be right back on table immediately. Because I mean with the Lakers got freaking blown out by the pace on Tuesday night. They look completely disconnected. There's a picture floating around a LeBron's sitting on the bench like five seats away from the nearest Laker. Yeah. It looks like an absolute mess over there. So I think if they'll call them the Lakers were jump right back on him. And honestly, I don't know that is a really good package. But I think woes put out an interesting tweet where people were saying, oh, it looks like he's just saying what are tweeting. Danny Ainge wants them to tweet, which I guess makes sense. But at the same time, it's pretty clear that LeBron Skype was also leaking a lot of stuff through other reporters. But the the pelicans want is a guy who could potentially reach an all MBA level as part of the package of what big effort in return. And I mean, I am still high on Ingram. Still just twenty one years years old like I said, Lonzo ball might be a little bit tricky since we'll talk about later, but since his father might want one most wear who's has healing as an NBA player. Maybe an all star one day, but I don't see him as an NBA. So it was really if the publicans sticking they can develop Ingram into an NBA player that maybe that'll interest them the package from from LA. But I don't know. I I think maybe Tatum I have a little bit more upside since he has proven a little bit more through his time in the NBA. He's I believe it was a little bit older than than going. They're about the same age. But at the same time, we saw Tatum perform very well. In the playoffs already. He was one of the top players on that was one game away from region to final. So I would understand why del dams and company would be waiting for the Celtics get involved if they think they can pull a Tatum. But at the same time if the Lakers really back out for real like, I don't think they will. But if they actually do and offers not there in the summer, and then who who would who would the public have to bid against the Celtics, you know, like religion because if they don't get Tatum, then then then they're completely screwed. Yeah. That's why a lot could change between now and the off season. So you may have this plan of okay, we're gonna go to the summer, and then we'll have this leaguers offer to consider. We'll have the Celtics offer to consider but injuries and get in the way guys can start playing worse than hurt their trade value guys can start playing better. And then all of a sudden the team says, wait a second. We're not doing this. And then also I think in the off season two executives as it's never great business to lie to other executives and and burn bridges. But certainly these conversations are fluid so things change. So I think if you're putting something off by you know, I understand said waiting a few days until the trade deadline and doing your due diligence there. But if you're putting it off by months than a lot changes between now, and then and like you said. If the Lakers they move on. Let's say Lakers. You know, this is this is a complete speculation. There's all speculation if they were to land a free agent during the summer or they were able to make a trade for another player. Let's say like you said who's Boston bidding against this point? Boston doesn't have to give Jason Tatum. And all they're crazy assets to get Anthony Davis because it would be what the Knicks. And then the teams that we've kind of heard mentioned, the clippers the who's the other team that was mentioned the Knicks, clippers and bucks. I mean who would Boston be bidding again. So that's where I think there's a lot of risk involved. If you push things down months. You know, if you push things months down the road, so we will see their, but one thing worth noting. Brandon Ingram has the playing really well lately averaging twenty one points, five assists for two half rebounds. I think he's someone has kind of stepped up in recent weeks. I know a lot of Laker fans are kind of pointing to that. And showing that he's been not only putting up those numbers. He's doing an efficiency, you know, shooting fifty five point seven percent from the field. So he's held his talk a little bit there. But overall the season I think people want to see a little bit more from him. So kind of interesting situation, but I do lock in change if now and the end of the season. So you've got to be really careful whenever you're kind of weighing moves like that the next player on our list is the biggest name we've had so far is Blake Griffin from the Detroit Pistons can you break down. Why Blake would be mentioned so much knees at rumors recently? Well, basically there was a tweet or reporting from a source who defined as pretty hit or miss. You has been right on some things, but he's been wrong on a lot of them. So I I don't even want to his name because I don't wanna seem like I'm trashing report or anything. So basically, he there was a report stating that Blake Griffin was not happy in Detroit and wanted to trade, and he even had a a list of teams that he would like to get traded to which I don't remember the entire. But it included the Miami. Basically the next day at practice Blake was answering questions to reporters. He he stayed like pretty clearly that he's happy in Detroit that he has not requested a trade. So I don't see that happening whatsoever. You know, it wouldn't make much sense to me. I know the business have been disappointed this year and Blake. Hasn't been Blake's fall whatsoever. He's been obstinately balling, and regardless they're only like game and a half or two games on a playoff spot. So even despite the disappointment, I think it's worth trading your best player away who has been freaking excellent this year. So I definitely don't see this happening. See happening at some point down the road. Maybe the summer after the next one or something if they continue to be mediocre, and then new owner says, well, this is not this team to best as the seventh or eighth. So it's not worth paying Blake Griffin. Thirty five million dollars a year that I'm paying him. So it could have been at some point. But I definitely do not or see it happening by Thursday. Yeah. I would be very shocked. If lake got traded. There's certainly some tension there and things that are kind of awkward whenever they came through Landau. I chance to cover that game. And they lost at the very end of the game. It was I think it was a buzzer beater they lost on. But obviously after that kind of experience everyone's locker room is down. But I remember looking at locker room, and it was just so. It was a lot of tension and a lot of awkwardness. No one was really talking to each other and Blake Griffin Andre Drummond. None of the big names even dress the media, they slather locker just kinda of stereo the ground a few the younger guys talked like, Luca Naarden, Reggie Bullock. They talked. So there were still young guys that were talking. But none of the, you know, does Pachulia actually came out and said some you know, he was criticizing his teammates, and it was really negative. So there was a lot going on there. And I remember thinking this kind of an interesting dynamic year. Then you have the whole Reggie Jackson thing where Blake Griffin's clearly frustrated during a post game interview. Reggie jackson. It's coming up and joking and Blake did not even a smile. He was not having. There's a there's there's definitely tension there. And there's frustration there because this team wants to be better. But the question is how can they actually really improve this roster and get to the point where they wanna be. It's kind of. I don't think trading Blake. We'll do that. I'll say that. So I think you're gonna see Blake remain in in in Detroit for now. Maybe we do see something happened over the off season or you know, they consider this over the off season. But everyone involved from ownership to Blake has denied this that he wants out that he's going to request a trade. So for right now, I would agree with you. I think it's it's I don't think we're going to see any kind of move anytime soon. Number seven on the list is Kyle Kuzma the Lakers. Now, this third Laker so far again, those New Orleans talks are really pushing these labor players into the trade. Rumors, which is interesting. I wonder how they're handling it. Because I just wrote an article about what happens behind the scenes at the trade deadline. I talked to a bunch of different agents and some players, and they all talked about how it's the hardest. The young guys the guys who haven't been the league for eight nine years, and they're not used to having their name pop up in trade. Rumors every single day. They're not used to being asked about trade. Rumors every single time a media members steps in front of them. So I think it's interesting, you know, with young guys it can affect them more on the court. It can also affect them off the court. I think sometimes they are bit naive and think, oh, I know everyone says the NBA is a business. But I haven't experienced it yet. You know, they're they don't see the calculating cold hearted decisions that are being made, you know, sometimes obviously they've had a friend Larry Nance junior or Jordan Clarkson, let's say who has been traded and kind of blindsided, but it's always tough for young players. So that makes me wonder what these young lady. Are feeling right now. But let's go back to the list. Number seven. This is mainly another one of those where unless it's Anthony Davis. I don't think we're going to see a move. Is that right? Yeah. Absolutely. His name as pumped up any rules. It's basically pelicans or buzzed for him as well. Not much else. We could basically whatever we said about zoo bats in about Ingram apply for and I could ask you a question that you said you ask them for where you asked. I wonder how the younger makers are handling it while they just suffered a forty two point loss in the road to a Pacers team with big depot, which I'm pretty sure it was the biggest loss of LeBron just again, LeBron James James's played in. So clearly not handling it. Very well. And I can't blame them. I mean as much as you can be trained, and, you know, start to believe I oh, this really is a business. It's really cold hearted. Anything could happen. I could be dealt at any moment. You don't really get used to it. So you experience it, I imagine, obviously. So I I don't blame them for not having it all that. Well, yeah. A lot of these guys will say to you know, I don't follow along. I'd check the rumors. But most these guys do check if they wanna see what's being said, it even. They do try to block it out. You know, they still get alert on social media. They still have family and friends that are texting them you'll reporters actually them. People are always asking them. Hey, did you hear this rumor or is this true? So it's really hard nowadays to block things out. Go back in the day. Whatever all you do is not pick up a newspaper or trying to TV. It was a little bit different. But now the news follows everywhere. So it becomes even even tougher. So yeah, I mean, I think these guys are definitely affected right now. I think if we get through Thursday's deadline, and there's no trade there's going to be a huge sense of relief. And maybe we'll see the Lakers start playing a little better just from that. But yeah, I mean, it's definitely tough. When you're when you're young guy going through for the first time the next player on our list is not a young guy. He is a veteran that's been the NBA for a long time. He's still success this year. Even though he's thirty four years old. The next player are lists Markelle, Saul he's interesting name because we had update today actually say that the Charlotte Hornets were in serious discussions with Memphis about possible. Gosol trade. Do you think we assaulted by Thursday? I definitely do. See? I mean, I know that. That has been a little bit of pushback back on the ridge report that came from Shamsher Rania that it seemed like the soul was getting close to a deal to the Hornets since then Sean Devaney who covers the NBA for sporting news. He's not on the level of shops or a Wohlers, but he did say that here from elite exact that it's not as close as people were led to believe there's still a lot of moving parts, which makes sense because I mean, it's going to be tough to match salaries between what the Hornets on what the what the grizzlies have. But regardless I think they ended up finding away. I will make a lot of sense. I wrote an article breaking down four trade us potential trade destination for good Sola of weeks ago and actually the Hornets one that me, and our coworker all better toke decided made a lot of sense. There's because I mean go so will be a perfect fit next to Kemba Walker. He has that experience playing next one point guard from his time with comedy. So I think it doesn't end up getting dealt and I think he could really help out the Hornets. Yeah. Definitely you call it that one you Shirley, number one on your list of fossil destination. So very good there. I think. To be interesting to see, you know, if if all it does change teams, what can you bring to the table because he's had some injuries this year they use playing through. So he's had some up and down parts of the season on the year. He's averaging fifteen point seven points, eight point, six rebounds, four point, seven assists. And I would say this to you know, Gusau even at thirty four or dealing with some injuries is better than most centers. You're going. You know, you you would take a seventy percent or eighty percent Ghazal over a lot of these guys out there just because he does have, you know, so many skills, and he's such a great guy to have on and off the floor. I think the team like Charlotte so much sense because he's gonna be able to push them up the standings and guarantee a playoff berth. Now does he make team contender that can challenge? The warriors. Probably not, obviously, maybe there's some situations out there where that could be the case that he'd make them way better. But I think what seems like Charlotte. That's looking to stay the playoff picture, they make the most sense. So we'll see those two sides can come to an agreement especially especially in like, you're saying it might not contender. Walker is raging this year for the. I I'm in a while. He's gonna have no shortage of suitors. So and I know most of the signs points to him reciting. There seems to be very happy. He claims that he loves being in a local place like Charlotte as opposed to being in New York where you have a fan asking for your picture every time you walk outside of your house or apartment or whatever. So it does seem like he wants to resign there. But at the same time if they miss the playoffs for the fourth time in five years, and he might start reconsidering it, and that would be really really bad for the Hornets because they're not afraid of the nation. They're not gonna have very high draft pick. So they really want to improve the rustler around them. And I think I think would be one way to impress Welker into staying. Yeah. Interesting to you know, you look at Gusau he has a player option for next year. We're twenty five point five million, you know, dizzy opt into that. Or does he say, hey, I'm going to opt out and try to get you know, some MO a long term deal four or five three or four year deal to get some more security and then make that money back. ES to make too. But that definitely affects these talks have your Charlotte. Are you giving up time for a guy that may only be there for half the season? If you're not sure that you can resign him or if he's gonna opt in so interesting to see what happens there, but hopefully, they can get a deal done. I think it'd be pretty fun watching this all on that Charlotte team. I wanted to add one thing really quick as you mentioned stats, and I looked this up earlier. And I thought it was super impressive. The list of centers to have averaged over fifteen points over a rebound in over four assist. The game includes Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, we'll Chamberlain bodily in your David Robinson. And Marco this year so favors in Kosovo. So I'm obviously not saying he's on their level. Not even saying he's a surefire hollow family, obviously, not, but he's still really really affected. I'm really reductive. And I think he really might be an underrated piece of could really seriously help them. Yeah. He's the guy that people are really talking about is as much. There's a lot of talk about, you know, Anthony Davis and even his teammate, Mike Conley. There's been talk about those those big names that could be other move. But don't sleep on this all, you know. He is a fantastic player. He could really help him. So. Yeah. That'd sense. I'm glad you threw out there. It's a very good stat. We'll see what happens with us all and for Memphis is S B so hard to just because you know, you've had your saw his entire career since he was a teenager, you kind of watched him grow. Because the player he is today. I know they've had par ways. Similar? Guys, recent years from those grit and grind teams. But you know, moving on from Gonzalo or Conley that it's not an easy decision. I think that's another thing too. You forget the human inside of this. Sometimes where executives have to make that call and think, okay? You know, do I really want to part ways with this guy that I've been with for his entire career is entire adult life. So some of those things that you know, we don't really think about whatever we're just saying oh plug this into the trade checker. It is kind of interesting to see there's there's other aspects here. And if it's not a good deal to, you know, if if they trade Conley Angus, Aw, let's say don't get back very much where they go into a rebuild. How's that fan base going to react because that's a fan to fan favorites that you're moving on from the hope is they would understand and they see the long-term vision. But certainly you could see some some fans being very upset if those two players were to move. So we'll get to Conley here in a second. But number five on our list is Ricky Rubio from the Utah, Jazz, one of the reasons he's actually in the news is because of Conley all you take it from here. Frank. Pretty much was Mark Stein. One of the best NBA reporters around for the New York Times. He he he put out a tweet a report saying that the jazz were in talks with the grizzlies about a call me trade and a deal did go through it would include Rubio, which makes sense. I mean, I think we all have pretty pretty high expectations for the jazz this year. And they haven't been terrible by any means. I mean there tenth in that ratings people don't realize at a plus two point one. So, but they are seventh in the west. And I just proves what grind the Western Conference. Is. You know, you could be tenth in that rating and still be seventh in the better conference. Yeah, I think we all have put it a little bit more from them. I think is starting to become a little clear that they might need a little bit more of an own pursue in the starting lineup. And I think going after a guy like me is really interesting just because I think it'd be a fantastic fit next to Mitchell. He's a good defender there at the point guard spot, he's really got three point shooter sort of possessions. If you don't want to wear Donovan Mitchell allow in the third quarter, you can go one on one and get some buckets for you. I think it would be a great fit. I think it would be. A better fit than Rubio who I love Rubio personally. I think he's a really fun player to watch people might throw the book, maybe not the bus on them. But they think he's not as good as he was hyped up to be. I think he's still really saw the player. But I think it's pretty clear calling. We'll be a pretty big upgrade if they can pull it off. That'd be a lot of fun outside of outside of talks with Calley for for calling the with the grizzlies. There's not really much other scuttled for Rubio. So like we mentioned a few other times. But if he does get more it'll be to the to the grizzlies four comedy. Yeah. No. That makes sense. I tell you the day. I said I want to get treated because he's the kind of player that could really kind of push a team to next level. You know, we talked about that with some other guys. But I think Conley just so talented. He's one of those guys that you know, everyone calls him underrated. Because he's never been an all star. I think he I think it's to the point. Now Reese properly rated. It's throwing the word underrated around too much and a guy came almost become overrated. But that's not how I feel about. Conley just say in general, but the guy has playing so well, not only has he had a strong season and can really help this team. And would be a perfect fit in Utah over his last seven games. He's averaging twenty three point three points seven point nine assists, four point seven rebounds, two point four threes and two point two steals while shooting fifty three percent from the field and thirty nine percent from three. I mean, the guy just killing it lately. Imagining him on that Utah team with Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell, it's just so exciting. And I mean, Utah like you said they haven't been grade this year, but they're still seventy in the Western Conference right now. They're only three games back from the fourth seed. I mean, if they were to bring in Conley, that's a huge upgrade over Rubio, in my opinion. And then I think that could be something that really pushes the team forward, and then not only this year, but you know, as Donald Mitchell bear continue to improve their game. And some of these other players they have continued to kind of. Takes forward progress comedy is going to be there. You know comedy has that huge contract. And I think that's one thing that has to be considered whenever you're talking about a possible by calling trade, but he could be there for several years and really help this team be one of the top four top five teams in the west each year. So this is one of those moves around kind of pulling for it. Do you want? Do you want to see this happen to love that? Yeah. I mean, he's not a huge name. It wouldn't be like a selfish reason like this will give us a lot of clicks on hoops sites from a basketball perspective and as a guy who really enjoys watching Utah play and calmly play. It'd be a lot of fun for sure. The next on our list is actually NS countered by I was just thinking we're talking about comedy so much as just talk about the the other team that call he's been tied to the most intriguing members because he's actually a third player in our list. So let's let's get the call. And then we'll go back to canter. So let's let's just focus around. Conley right now. What other team has been mentioned the most with finely? Okay. So right now it's looking like a two team race as far as franchises. That are looking to add Conley. The we talked about the Utah Jazz. The second one is the Detroit Pistons, which I find a little bit riskier than I do the jive because we talked about they saw Mitchell on a rookie contract for the next. Couple years already have their go ba- go bare lock offer the next few years. So those guys are still either entering their primer ready like about the star of their prime. So they can play. I mean, I didn't call who's thirty one years old is a little bit safer for them as opposed to if the Pacers When a trade for him because they be tying a lot of money up to Blake Griffin. Who's already thirty years old? He's going to be making a ton of money over the next few years. And call these I have the number right here. I believe he's on sixty four million dollars over the next two years of his contract after this season. So that's a lot of money tied up just two two two guys in their thirties. You know who both have had like kind of injury issues in the past like a decent amount of injury anxious. So the point that it's no worthy. So for for the jazz. I wouldn't love the fit for the for the business. I wouldn't love it for less. Yes. So they would have zero flexibility. Basically if you look at this. So let's let's next year two thousand nine hundred twenty Blake Griffin. We'll be making thirty four point two million one hundred drum and we making twenty seven point one million. Reggie Jackson would be making eighteen million. If he's still there, you know, we only know what the deal would be and then Mike Conley. We making thirty two point five million. And then the crazy thing is it doesn't even end there. Conley would be under contract in twenty twenty one for thirty four point five million. Blake Griffin will be under contract for thirty six point five million. And then Andre Drummond could opt into a player option that final year at twenty eight point seven million. So that's where I mean, we look. Detroit now. And we think oh, this is a team that's pretty much maxed out in terms of what they can do salary, cap wise. They don't have much flexibility. If you add Conley list, it becomes even crazier really hard to imagine. How it will basically be them going all in on Griffin drumming and Conley and thinking, okay, that's good enough in the Eastern Conference to, you know, make us better. Maybe we can put some, you know, smaller pieces around them, maybe we had some guys through buyouts or system cheap free agents. But you'd be committed to that big three for several years that is way more risky. I think you're I totally see what you're saying. The rest of the roster with like minimum guys guys from the G league of like. Diamonds in the rough types of guys. I just think it would be like we're saying just really really risky. I, and I don't I don't see it being worth the payoff if we suspend belief, and as soon as there's going to be healthy over the next few years, we guarantee no injuries and think about a different what basketball perspective without thinking about the money. Then yet a core builds around Cali lake Griffin who's been freaking excellent this year. And I'll do trouble who's been really good. The that becomes a little more fun to think about, but then when you add in how much money these guys are still load a big reframe after the season has an three years one hundred and nine point eight million dollars done as the oh, so he'll be in his mid thirties by the time it's over. So it just becomes I think way too much of a risk. Yeah. Because like you said these guys are going to be they're going to be older too. So it's not like they're the prime of their career in her doing. This guy's there. Twenty four twenty five years old. And also I said big three earlier there's a big is having a big three of Drummond Griffin. And Conley and having, you know, LeBron James Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, those guys can have minimum guys around them, and they can thrive and they can take that team to. To the NBA finals a win a championship when I'm not not to bash those three guys at Detroit. But no, no, no, it's just they would need more help than that. They'd be a better team. But the question is how much better than how quickly the things kind of go downhill there from a money standpoint and a general decline standpoint. So yeah, definitely something to think about we will see what happens there. So we want to skip over at his cancer. Just so we there's actually one more team that actually got time to my today that I think is worth mentioning Jake Fischer from Sports Illustrated, actually that while Memphis has most seriously continued dialogue with u Utah and Detroit on my Coney trade packages, the raptors called Memphis, offering cow and Jonas Valance or of Margaret soul. Now to me that I know those guys on a level of a wars and show where we can just take it as gospel. If that Jake is very good though road. Absolutely. And actually the report got back up by guys like Michael Ranji who covers the raptors and multiple. So this seems super legit to me offer his ruined really interesting. I mean, I don't know how much it changes of stealing Weiner team. But it just seems like an MBA, okay. To trade that is just a lot of fun. I would make both teams them were interesting to close out the season for sure. Well, the thing is to messiah jury is always looking for moves like that. You know, if there's a swing for the fence type of move he's thinking about it and probably having conversation about it. So it's one of those things that you know, because there's a lot of big names. I think some people like look at that. And think oh, that's not true. I'm gonna move along. You know, who cares? But whenever I think about Masai and also remember, you know, the whole Kyle Lowry situation. And in Toronto is very weird right now, they don't the relationship between Masai Lowry is basically non-existent Chris Mannix wrote an article about how the raptors are trying to resign. Kawhi Leonard to basically follow the thunder's blueprint from whenever they were whenever they resigned, Paul George, and they were looking at Kyle Lowry thinking, hey, look, what look what happened with Russell Westbrook and Paul they became so close and that became one of the biggest reasons. He wanted to stay can you play that role in Lowry has played that role whatsoever. Manic said that he has a chilly relationship with messiah, Jerry. And then he added that basically there's a quote from Lowery in the Sports Illustrated saying look if you stays here. That's great. If not that's fine too. Like I've ruined for him. Either way. There's it didn't seem like he was recruiting or carrying about Kawai Leonard's future at all. And basically saying look all supported either way, it doesn't really matter to me. So Lowry, I think is really upset still that the Marta Rosa was traded. And I don't know what there may be more of that story. Maybe he was taught. It wasn't going to happen. Then he got blindsided by it. I don't know. But since they didn't talk all offseason Lowry, Jiri, Nick nurse. Didn't talk to Kyle Kyle Lowry at all really during the off season. They had one conversation right after he got hired. I think and that was it. Kyle didn't talk to quite Leonard until they actually showed up for media day in training camp. So I mean, Lowry's someone's very upset right now yoda's down Gina's is the guy has been popping up in trade. Rumors in recent. Years pretty frequently seniors. Yeah. So that's kind of thing where if you're Masai you almost have to made that call and think if we can get a quarter of Conley. Kawai and disol-. We all we still have Paseo Siaka we have some nice role players here that could be a really interesting team. So I understand messiah making the call. But I want to say what didn't reports say Memphis had no interest. Yeah. They had very, yeah. They said, no interest, basically, and it makes sense. Because even if they offered a first round big that will be in the very late first round balance you and his I mean, he's he's a really good player, but he's not really an asset like a plus acid, in my opinion allowed reason his thirties has has been great this year. Like, you're saying basically it messiahs year he sees that a player's fan favor and has been loyal to him for years, and he's probably looking at Trentham at some point. So we definitely can't rule this out from happening. I made my visiting people lower. We're getting Bill wouldn't be that surprising. And plus you can I mean, you got at least somewhat. Fill the void. If he is gone with Fred amount Blee who is really really this is actually a guy who's underrated say, but he's actually going to read it and think about this. I know it's not allowed to happen. But like those great grindings were so good and so fun to watch. And so like productive on a nightly basis. But like, what was the one thing? We also said was missing most scenes a really good wing. Yeah. That's what they trying to fill it with China Parsons, which was a disaster. That's partially. Why does actually blowing up right now? But if if those two guys calmly and Kosovo ended up on the rafters finally have an elite linked to play with. And then things were getting really really interesting. It's so funny too because you look at Toronto. And usually if you're playing as well as they are your, you know, the number two team in the Eastern Conference. You've only lost sixteen games. So far, you know, you're a game and a half back from the the number one seed, you don't see teams like that usually blowing up the roster, but messiahs very very, bold guy. He's willing to make those bold moves. I think. I think going to keep in mind too with this with this specific rumor, you know, Kyle Lowry wasn't Memphis to start his career. He spent three seasons there and those were times they weren't the best of times for Kyle Lowry before before Lowry came to Toronto. And maybe a started toward the end of his Houston stint. He was very immature in the early in his career. He had those really kind of icy relationships that we're talking about like with union. I do think he's one of those guys that I think having a family and getting married and have kids kinda change them a little bit and kind of cool them down and made them more humble. And all that. But I would say that to you know, the Memphis has experience with a Kyle Lowry. And it wasn't the best version of Kyle Lowry. So there's something to keep in mind there from his past in there. But yeah, whenever there's a deal like that those are the kind of trade rumors that make me excited. You know, I feel like I'm a fan again. It's like Christmas morning when you hear the raptors and angrily may swap their stars, basically. You know, and we could see Kawai Leonard with a solid comedy. It's one of those really cool. What if trade, so maybe along shy, especially with way, it's been reported that the grizzlies aren't really interested in that those talks didn't really get anywhere. But still interesting to discuss. Now, let's go back to and his canter. We skipped over him because we wanted to get into the Memphis and really cover the call on these stuff in depth. But and his canter is also under list at number four now, obviously he did make the trip with the Knicks to London, and then he had a conversation with David physio where basically coach is look we're going to go with our young guys, we aren't winning games. So it makes more sense to develop Mitchell Robinson and the other young guys here. Cantor has been pretty outspoken about it the media. He's not only, you know, giving interviews, but he's on social media, and he's not very happy. It seems. But so how do you think this ends, do you think we see them get traded or do you think we get bought out? I mean more. I mean, we're not gonna couple of days away at this point. And we haven't got much of an update besides his trolling on Twitter and his. Social media stuff in his dealings with the New York press and the time that he finally got playing time and he checked in and kissed the Knicks logo immediately immediately. Air balled the playwright after. Oh outwitted. We haven't really heard much of nothingness wise teams that might be interested in him. The last referred is what we've discussed in the previous dishes of this podcast where they were considered maybe a Jabbari for or Kanner soi. But it hasn't been much of an update on that. Obviously what kind of things it could happen at a moment's notice. It would become totally rule it out. But for for me for right now, I'm starting to think this is my end in a buyout after the trade deadline's over because I think I think maybe teams might be hesitant to trade for him. And the Knicks are adamant that they don't want to add add long-term money to to their bunks in a canter deal. So I think this might have to end in a bio or them sort of vanishing from the team and then taking it from there. I will say this. He's one of those guys that you know, you look at his eighteen point six million dollars salary. They're thinking that we really want to trade for that. We want to have that on on our on our books. But then if he's if he's a bio candidate he eats bought out, and you're bringing him in on a minimum deal or close to it to basically finish the year. And then he's gonna hit free agency in the summer. All of a sudden, you're looking at a guy that's going to be, you know, he's averaged fourteen points ten point five. Rebounds, two assists. He issued in fifty four percent from the field. It's a guy that if you can get him on a buyout way different. And almost reminds me like Greg Monroe whenever he signed the big contract. And everyone's like, oh, no, we're not touching that deal. Then he gets bought out and every teams like, okay? Well, now, wait a second. Maybe we can use them as if he's a bevy sooner. Yeah. If he's that we can use them. So I think Kanter could find himself in a similar situation if he gets bought out and the numbers that I mentioned, you know, he's putting those up in twenty five minutes per night. He has only started half of the next games. So I mean, you definitely look at him and think some team would be able to add him and want him in their in their front court as depth. And certainly I think we could see a buyout happen with a buyout. It's always the big question is will the player be willing to leave money on the table to gain their freedom and go sign elsewhere from the comments the made it sounds like thought a money issue forum. It sounds like it's playtime issue a winning issue. So that's where you start to wonder. You know, does he get bought out? And then go join one of these contenders. And see what he can do. He can. He could be one of the bigger names that's out there on the bio market. I mean, we're gonna talk more about that. Obviously. After the trade deadline, whenever we know who's stayed with their current team and who could be available, but he's definitely name to watch. What we start talking about buyouts? Considering the roster. They might not need. But like how would it be for him to return and reform the the legendary stash parole. Yeah. Stephen Adams in Oklahoma City. That'd be a lot of fun. I'm not gonna lie. That was the first thing. I thought of that was what was that was. I mean, he had so much fun there. He loved it. He raved about it. He's talking about defense the fence the love him there. Yeah. He's talked about wanting to go back there, potentially. So I mean, there is a there's definitely something to that. And in any of these teams that you know, you're going to see the warriors you're going to see the Houston Rockets, the Toronto Raptors Milwaukee books, Denver Nuggets. You'll obviously some of these teams they'd have to clear a roster spot or something but the teams that are legitimate contenders. That are really exciting to watch. Those teams are going to be in the mix for you know, a guy like cancer because I think he's gonna wanna go where he can win. But yeah, I mean, I love biopsies. It's basically mini free agency. So that should be a lot of fun after the trade deadline. But yeah, definitely Kanter is it him to watch for that. Whenever that time comes now. The number two player on the list. Here is a guy that is very polarizing again, he's Los Angeles Laker. So we know the main reason he's on here is because of the Davis talks, but he's actually someone that's been mentioned with. He's been linked to other teams as well. Lonzo ball. Now. What do you make of this whole Lonzo ball situation? And do you think even if this New Orleans deal doesn't go through we've heard about Phoenix being a possible landing spot? There was some rumors coming out about it. Then lavar ball kind of made some comments about how he wants to see his son in Phoenix. And how they're the best fit for him. He's going to speak into existence. And now we're hearing, you know, maybe Lonzo ball. Maybe the pelicans aren't as interested in Lonzo ball. What do you make this situation with Lonzo? Fortunately for the ball. Camper thing is going to take a little more than lavar and get into existence enter believe units existence. I still think that the only way that like I said was Ingram and zoo box and the only way we see him traded is if it's part of that need babies package, just because I don't see them pulling off a one for one swap with Phoenix, am I got an interesting Phoenix actually kept Trevor Aretha 'cause I there's actually been reports that the Lakers to this day are still interested in adding resent the deadline, Brian. So so maybe if they had kept them, we could maybe talk ourselves into somehow, even though salaries don't match deal with that included ball, and a reason it, but besides that, I don't really see it happening. I think have to be a three way trade or maybe the color on them, then moved to Phoenix if that did happen. It would be a little bit a little interesting just because I don't think Lonzo handled like the spotlight playing Angeles with LeBron James all of that wealth. I think as a rookie showed a ton of upside is a guy who makes the right pass is kind of fun fun unique hit head passes and stuff. You don't log on three pointers out of the out of the big enroll this year. We're not seeing much of the the joy in Lonzo ball game that made such a fun prospect. He's only reaching my point nine points in game five five assists for a guy. Who's hero? Did as a passer is it's nowhere near as good as it should be, you know, and I'm not gonna blame the brawny. So the best friend in the plan. You should try to match your skill set with him a little bit. But I don't think it's a great thing. I don't think he's had to be in the spa wall. Being definitely has a way way smaller scope twin? They never like in the national spotlight very much. They have a very pretty modest local following over there. So I think that's a Devon Booker. I think it'd be a pretty good 'cause Lonzo Ken knock down open shots when he's when he's very very open. Boecker? He'd be a lot of thought he's a good defender. From the point spun. I've always I've always said that I think the point guard of the future that Phoenix eventually whenever they're going to get them whenever they do it on them. I think it needs to be a guy who was a good defender. And I think Lonzo ball is that great rebounder him running the pick and roll and hitting Jeon dre aid and uncut and guys like become bridges funding for threes. I didn't that could be a really fun young core. But unfortunately, I said it's going to take more than bar believing into existence. So we'll see if the eighty treat happens by Thursday. If it doesn't I could foresee this marriage happening, if not then maybe at some point in the summer buttoned up, but not right away. Yeah. I think it makes sense for sun standpoint. Obviously, they need a point guard. We'd be that for a long time. Now, you know, they don't really have anyone in that roster. So that's where it makes sense for the sun because putting ball next book Booker the backboard before I think he would give the Andrea. And so we'll be looks and make things a little bit easier on him when you have a great point guard to kind of consent guys up as you mentioned the defense will be good. The thing is though if the lake. I think Lonzo ball is trade values at all time low. He's had some injuries that he's dealt with. He hasn't played as best basketball. As you mentioned, the assists, aren't there that you wanna see really last year? We kept hearing about the Lonzo affect and even though the numbers were an amazing. You know, he he passed the test and he was leading the team. Now like, you said, you know, the numbers aren't as great. He hasn't really stood out in Los Angeles. He's played next to LeBron James and never really hasn't made. It a whole lot better. If anything, you know, there's been some aggression when the Brown was out. He didn't step up the way a lot of people wanted to see him step by step up. I think there's there's definitely some questions there. And if you're Lakers, it probably makes more sense to hold onto him. And see. Okay. What can you be a year or two from now, let's keep this together. And, you know, see unless there's more happening by the and if there's if they're fed up with him in the in the family, that's that's totally different. But the guy just turned twenty one years old October. So that you have to wonder with the Lakers say, let's little bit more patient here. Let's get your trade value. Maybe we'll see. Work long term with us. But at the very least, let's hear a trade you back up before we ship you away at the first sign of struggles whenever your values so low I'm not a big fan of making a trade whenever guys values that low if that makes sense knobs because they won't get the value in return for the number to grow up into they used on them. They won't get anywhere near close to that. So right after doing you there. So now last player at our list is no surprise Anthony Davis. Now, we know here's what we know. So far, he requested a trade. And you know, obviously, his preferred destination as Los Angeles Lakers, initially, he did not give the pelicans a wishlist of other teams. But that happened today where he gave them the Los Angeles, Clippers New York Knicks and Milwaukee Bucks. He did not have the Boston Celtics on the list. His father made a comment about how he would never want his son playing for the Celtics because of what they did to Isaiah Thomas and the whole loyalty issue, basically trading Isaiah months after he played through tears in grief after his sister passed away. We know that. Anthony Davis in Rich Paul that whole camp they're concerned about Kyrie Irving. And whether he would be in Boston long-term, which makes sense if you're gonna if you if they're going to go to Boston, and Jason Tatum and other young guys are involved in that trade, and then Kyrie Irving leaves. You have to wonder Anthony Davis if he's wondering, okay, my the only star here. Now, you know, I just signed up for when I could have been playing with LeBron James or playing with someone else. You know, there's certain there's some fear there that he would end up in Boston. And then Kyrie's gone and the players that were involved a trader gone. And now you're not in a much better situation than you were in New Orleans. I mean, obviously, it's better the Celtics have a better core. But you see what I'm saying? So that's kind of where things stand right now. He obviously wants to be a Laker. We know as you mentioned earlier, the talks between the Lakers and the pelicans haven't really went. Well, I don't know if the pelicans are trying to make things difficult on the Lakers because they were frustrated with how this kind of went down. I think there's a perception that Rich Paul LeBron James in the Lakers are just kind of running this. And they feel like okay, we're going to get our guy. No matter what. I feel like there's some, you know, there was a whole tampering issue that they'll Dem's and Alvin gentry brought up they were very frustrated and felt like there was tampering. A lot of teams around the NBA, Lakers and think you have everything handed to you. And it's so easy for you. Because you're in this big market, and you have all these stars not fair. So I don't know if it's if it's a petty thing or. Adversarial thing. But I don't know what's gonna happen before this trade deadline on Thursday. I honestly could see Anthony Davis go you Lakers. I honestly see Dave is going to some rental team and surprising people. But I could also see Davis staying on the pelicans in this being resolved over the summer. This situation is the most up in the air for me of all of them. Honestly. No. I mean, of course, could change the last in the league not just for this season for the for the history of the NBA could change if this does go through especially if it doesn't. Lakers because it's really really thinking about eighty LeBron. I wish I had an answer for you. I'm the same. I have no idea. What's going to happen to me if I'm reading the teams little bid for now does trending away from the Lakers when maybe maybe on Monday, I thought it was trending towards it happening or the Lakers. When I heard what they were offering the offered the godfather package, but at the same time, if you're dull Damson, if you're in New Orleans, if you believe that the Lakers will walk right back to the to the tray table or to the trade discussions in the summer, and you have them you can pit them against Boston and make them give both their very very best operas, then it's a no brainer. You keep him. And you wait till the summer to see what the Celtics can offer you if you actually think the Lakers are done for good. And they'll just move onto try to sign coordinator doing something else. That may be reconsidering say, you know, what this is a pretty good package. We're getting their entire young core. We're getting multiple first round picks wakes. I will say won't be that high though those will be in the late twentieth. So I think we kind of overstayed the first round pick thing there are a little bit. But. Yeah. I don't know. I it stopping to rebel got the decision here. But if I were I think I would wait for the summer and see what Boston's offering. Yeah, it's risky. But I mean, I feel like Lakers won't go away. Here. I feel like especially with the way things played out with Paul George Jimmy Butler too. Quite letter. There've been number of stars. Now that have been available in the Lakers tried to pursue them. And they've kind of held back into Goshi nations a bit especially with Georgia. I think they could have really went all in. But I think the mentality was okay, just we'll get him after his rental season. And then now with Paul George, obviously falling love with. Okay. See they missed out on him. You gotta LeBron James. So that you're one step closer, obviously to landing big time stars through free agency that will make things easier. It's always hard what you're trying to get that first one to put around a young core. But I think the way that that situation played out is affecting these talks because they don't wanna lose it that they want that to happen. Again, you know, worst case scenario for the Lakers is Anthony Davis does get treated to you know, let's say the clippers. The bucks and falls in love with it. And then does day term, and you missed out your chance to get him. Now. Maybe if it's if what they're truly asking for is every single young player graphics, then maybe smart for Lakers do that. Anyway. Take and take your chances into free agency. But I think there's some fear that okay? This would be the fourth or fifth star that we missed out on. It's been available on the market DeMarcus cousins was another one apparently whenever he was being treated in Sacramento. There was some talk about the Lakers there too. You know, they've seen. This have is too many times before. So maybe that's why we're seeing such a of trade talks and big trade offers because they want to make sure they can bring the guy in. We will see though, it's interesting. Anthony Davis is twenty five years old. So it makes a lot of sense. He's a young guy that should only continue to get better. He does on both the floor when he's healthy. He's one of the top three players in the NBA. But the thing is he's had a lot of injuries too. So there is some risk involved here. You know, it's not like he's been completely healthiest whole career. He's had a lot of the little freak injuries. Lebron James is thirty five years old it just one of those things where I see both sides of this. I understand the Lakers really wanted to give up anything to get a guy again Davis. I also see some of the Laker fans who are thinking. This is crazy. Why are we why are we doing? This this is kind of way too much. But I think that's one of those things when you have LeBron James and your team a side effect of that is you're going to be making win. Now moves and the young guys probably aren't gonna last very long. I look I look at that return to Cleveland at his letter in Sports Illustrated, where he named off all the young guys and said, you know, this is going to be difficult Brady of impatient. I know this is going to happen right away. And then, you know, Andrew Wiggins Anthony Bennett, they get treated immediately for love. Gets traded immediately. Like, you look at all the guys that they just flipped basically everyone except for like, Kyrie Irving interested Thompson, they flipped them. So I mean, that's will abroad. Does. That's how we kind of does things he comes with the organization. He's going to there's a star player available. He's going to push for it, especially that was younger. Lebron thirty five year old abroad wants to compete with the warriors. And you know, somebody's seems in the Western Conference. He's going to push for deals. We know he wants to win badly even Miami. You know, there was some times where he was frustrated that the team didn't do every single little thing. They could to feel the best team possible. The whole Mike Miller situation where they let him go for financial reasons. I mean, LeBron is a guy it's going to put a lot of pressure. I'd organization to make these kind of moves if you're a young guy playing with LeBron you know, you can urea. Learn so much is going to be great for your game. And on the court. He's gonna make you better. But that's kind of terrifying to be one of the guys looked at. We're LeBron looks at you like a cartoon instead of seeing like steak or something like that. He just he's like a. A big trade chip and the plaza. You're like a token that he can cash in for one of his star friends. That's kind of scary. Absolutely for sure if I was one of the Lakers young core guys as soon as that happened. I think it would have been a little bit nervous. And then obviously, then you meet LeBron you realize, you know, what it's so scary because we're going to win some games. It's going to be great. And then you start throwing a little bit to win basketball games. And what's happening now? Now, it seems like utter chaos. It seems like the entire teams on the trading block. Besides LeBron James. I saw that. You said it was interesting. I thought like LeBron is already thirty five years old. So they can knock you striking out on these big name players. You know, like Hawaii. They I guess they still have a shot at quiet agency in the summer. I don't know whether it's not being talked about little bit more. But they missed Paul George their decision. Not to go all in with him is starting to look. Well, no, I think say say it looks horrific and hindsight because they ended up landing. Lebron James imagined a wing duo of LeBron Paul George at deformities at now PG where he's playing like an MVP candidate truly for the first time in his career yet also being founder like Paul George been one of my absolute favorite guys watch us urine. And imagine if he was on the Lakers right now, they would not be in his predicament where they're like man if we don't lend Anthony Davis, and we don't get they'll stop being. So stubborn could be really screwed here. And another another thing like after these trade talks came up and stuff like we saw flagged the Lakers against the patient. And I know keeping is something a forty point loss like that. Where you come out that flat is definitely concerning to me. So what's going to happen to the rest of the year for trade doesn't happen? You know? Are they going to keep struggling coming out flat? They're going to say, you know, we're probably getting treated in the summer anyways. Like, the young guys. They're going to say we're gonna try it. Anyway. So let's not get full effort, or maybe they're focused will be great imagine. If LeBron James this season misses the playoffs. I know is blasphemous disabled right now, they're definitely teetering on the line. The right. I five hundred. And with the mood around the team. I feel like the moon around the team right now the energy is in great. So I don't know if I were magic it'd be a little bit nervous. Because if you missed the playoffs with the Brian James until the end of his prime that's inexcusable. Yeah. I mean, that's that's the pressure that comes to have LeBron for sure now, let's on this note right now, according to Adri will denounce game we talked about this a little bit. But the most recent offer that is being discussed between the pelicans. And the Lakers is Lonzo ball, Josh heart cow whose MMA, Brandon Ingram zoo bots, two first round picks. And then the Lakers would get Anthony Davis and take back Solomon hill who is twelve point seven million dollars next year. Yes, or no. If you're the Lakers on Thursday at two thirty pm eastern time. Do you make that move? If I'm the Lakers. Absolutely for sure. Yeah. You would give all that up. No, no. Without a doubt. At this point. I really think they might be in trouble. If they need doesn't if he doesn't deal doesn't go through threat. I would I would do whatever I kind extent the summer. And even if they do get in a bidding war with Boston. I mean, like we said earlier Tatum might be the guy with the most potential and a team to make an NBA team. And that's something that the pelicans do Cova number turn. So I would not want us to go to the summer. I would not want to risk missing the playoffs this year. I would want to fix the motor on the team and fix the energy and stuff. So I would definitely be all in right now with the. Yeah. If there's a guy do is it's Paul George. He said, you know, no one saw 'em taking his game of this level to me Butler. Obviously had some question marks whenever he was available initially. And there was talking about the Lakers there the Marcus cousins, obviously has question marks as well. Any Davis is just a freak of nature in the thought of LeBron and the same team. It doesn't seem fair. It seems like the monsters are like starting to assemble their roster. So I agree with you. I think you have to do it almost. So we will see what happens. Make sure you guys are falling hoop sites number page over the next few days here. The trade deadline is on the seventh at three PM eastern time. And there's always some little deals that trickle in afterwards. So make sure you stick around until probably about four eastern time. Basically teams have to just be on the on the team or on the league office call or schedule the trade call by three pm. So makes you guys are at refreshing hoops rumor page makes you guys are following hoops. Hype on Twitter at hoops hype follow Frank on Twitter at Frank or being underscore. You guys can follow me at Kennedy NBA. We're going to do our best to put out a ton of trade deadline coverage. We have interviews. We have a lot of analysis then obviously, we're going to be aggregating everything. So you can just go to the hoop savory were page to find every single rumor report or transaction that gets done they for for joining me here. They Frankford for joining me too. Thanks for coming on to break down, your your frayed. Rumor ranking list things I just wanted to say Thursday is one of my busiest days of the year as as far as running. Hoops. So please give visit that they it's going to be worth your while every single trade rumor possible right there at your disposal. So please, please take us out that take. Yeah. Make my pain worth it. It's an amazing resource, honestly because you literally can refresh your and get every single piece of news because not only are we putting stuff from Twitter. We're pulling stuff from newspapers. We're pulling stuff from you know, on TV reports if something on TV it's going to be on a reverse page if it said anywhere if it's reported anywhere, if it's on the ethnic where you've been needed subscription will pull out a little bit of a quote from the Atlantic. Didn't have it there. It's your one stop shop for all trade. Rumors. So makes you to check it out on Thursday. I'm not just saying that because they work for them. I've been doing this for a decade our on hoops hype. Every single trade deadline reading every single thing because there's so much racial against put out there. You don't want to miss any of it. So while Twitter's great, I would say make sure you have the hoop say rumors page open as well. It makes you check out this article too. You know, we thought we talked about the different players that were involved. But the article does have some more in depth information and stats and things like that. So the article is on hoops, I've right now it is called the trade rumor rank. Things the exact name for this one is NBA trade rankings young Lakers on the move. So it makes you check that article out. And if you guys want to listen to other episodes of the hoops, say podcast. Check us out at audio. Boom. I tune Stitcher Spotify anywhere your favorite podcasts could be found until the next time. Thanks for listening. Space some regions are vast and empty other areas. We call closets. Fortunately, Kevin from the container store has answers. Right. Kevin. What gives you the power over space? I'd say alpha, customizable, closets with free, design and Elvis adjustable shelving and drawers, I can create space in any size closet. Kevin master of space and closets or just Kevin. Plus right now, save thirty percent on elephant installation and earn up to five hundred dollars in credit through February tenth met the container store where space comes from. Where's that music coming from?

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Always Consistent w/ Prairie Conlon

Dog Save The People

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Always Consistent w/ Prairie Conlon

"Bartlett in I'm your host very con- Lynn is a mental health therapist who specializes in animal assisted interventions Welcome the dogs the people podcast about how dogs make our lives better my name is John Ranch out there and just had animals surrounding me all the time I brought home animals my parents put up with it and worked at a vet clinic through high school major dual major of psychology animal science well and at that point too I had completed so many hours that I did get a associates in science so I got the well and of course would bring home animals from there so had a pretty cool childhood with that so when you went off to college was your idea initially to become a veterinarian yourself military wife whose own dogs giving her a sense of stability comfort in common bond with her family over the years you too absolutely nothing to take care of you know there's a lot of responsibility on the farm you know you're getting up early before school you're you're exercising your horses your life at that time can you tell me a little bit about that yeah yeah so my freshman year of college I went from living on a farm wide open spaces animals everywhere merchandising enterprise l. for sure absolutely whereabouts did you grow work I grew up in Kansas right around dodge city Kansas I grew up on a cattle great I had a lot of trouble with just keeping myself grounded I just didn't have anything to look after and you know I was talking with my parents that summer and I just and military behavioral health that's amazing that's a lot of school it is a lot of school but I really you know it's kind of funny once you get specialized Actually I missed Radio Kansas state yeah yeah it was it was really cool it was great to represent the school and so I've traveled the state in as we travel the was so impactful that year that I gotta serve the state of Kansas as the Rodeo Queen so I switched my major that's kind of how that all happened you entered into a double to helping with the cattle and there's just a lot of responsibility and all of a sudden I didn't have that responsibility anymore I was really really lost it took a lot for me to concentrate right kind of hated to stop because I was really enjoying it and it's a wonderful environment so while you're at school in this was so interesting you ended up bringing a dog in yes absolutely I love animals I loved working with them and that was the plan was I was pre med did change majors psychology it all kind of came about I was people to the Rodeo events in seeing them interact with the horses I would bring a horse to the Rodeo and and it just it was just amazing and it really really really enjoyed it and honestly if I could I would just I would go back and get more I think it's pretty great yeah no I hear you when I was in school eight we did a lot of charity events and everything and we would do Rodeos for people with special needs I'm also have people in my family that have special needs and I just really found that bringing these I am in Wisconsin home of the cheeseheads used to work in Wisconsin in Milwaukee and the airport was filled with the cheese hats it was Welcome and thank you so much for joining us on dog saved the people absolutely I'm so excited to be here so where are we speaking to you said I feel so much better when I come home I'm having a lot of fun at college I like what I'm doing but I really just feel almost flighty and I'm not getting what scream the animal science only went on for Bachelors of psychology and then of course I have the two masters degrees in professional counseling and I need there I said well will you help me get a dog and find an apartment that will actually allow dog because that's pretty difficult to do I got this dog I wanted a dog that didn't shed so I didn't have the hair and everything everywhere and and so I looked into that and stumbled on the Schnauzer the Schnauzer is hilarious to me I love there browse in their beards their doorbell they think they're ten feet tall and bulletproof and so I found this Schnauzer and then so I go to look at these dogs and schnauzers are typically salt and pepper and so I go to look at this little litter of dogs and they're all grain salt and pepper and then there is this one pure light one and they said well that one's like mutated gene he's not going to be as expensive because that's mutate will now they liked schnauzers like that but back then it was like no we'd give you a discount on what you probably don't want him and it was just really funny because there's all these little gray ones and they're all kind of piled up and then there's this little white when off by himself he's hopping around he's growling and the exercise and nutrition everything that comes with taking care of a dog I started doing for myself better and got through school I think that's amazing I know that Asher because I was thinking it's going to be a little gray schnauzer little ash colored Schnauzer but he looked like an Asher so the name stuck and I mean he really really did help me of when I went away to school it was it was such a rude awakening on so many levels if I'd had a dog with me because I grew up with dogs as well it would have changed everything eh you know pursue what I needed to do he got me into a routine like you know you'd have to wake up in the mornings get it taken care of walks and I mean just all of those things all of the south you have to be showing up you have to show up for another another being and gives you that sense of purpose very early on which a lot of calls roads that are like man I'm completely confident in who I am and feeling absolutely wonderful about the path that I have chosen you know so the just the idea that that Asher was there to ground you also to give you this kind of consistent and also the idea that it's not just about your mark and Adam and I'm like he is kind of weird I want that one was awesome yeah I mean and so I took him in I'd already picked out the name students don't get to experience yeah yeah you know and that's also a time where you really examining your self worth as well and I don't know a lot of nineteen twenty years and so you graduated from school you went on to get the two different masters degrees and how did you find how did Asher inspire you and healing and excitement for me as well you know we all have our stuff and helping others sometimes help us get you know get out of that that place where we get actress with mental health yeah yeah well one of the bigger things was the equine therapy as well so I was on the Rodeo team at the University Asher today and so yeah he he made a difference in a lot of people's lives and so was that really what kind of started to inspire your own particular and really got to think about that but the dog helps you at least get out of some of that you know that's negative self talk and that stuff that goes won't shut up and and your work from there one of the things that I would do in college was I would take him to visit people like nursing home so I got him trained as doc in her own things and thoughts and everything and so I would take him to Go visit people one of the jobs that I had I ended up transferring to the University of Montana so excited to see me I think it was more of the dog but it made me feel great it made them feel great and so it was a lot of fun because in there's another piece of that and stuff like that because then when it's just all about me I mean that that's kind of scary and kind of messy and in one thousand nine year olds head yeah absolutely no I agree with you the Office for mental health therapy doesn't necessarily have to look like an office and that I could actually have a career as a mental health therapist outside Aspera dog therapy not to be mistaken with the service animal or emotional support animal but he was a therapy dog and and that was just a time of you know tagging along to and so I would always say well it's more of a well rounded I mean because the barn cats come out the dogs come out and it was just really eye opening to see that Montana and like I said Miss Rodeo and and seeing that you can do the equine therapy and usually at the Horse Barn you have a dog so as a military family you're moving constantly you move you don't know where you might be going you could get orders that could come down and and how did that affect your life you have children yes yes yes we have two boys how's it been these past eleven years as a military family so you are a military spouse correct yes so my husband was in the military for eleven years he was army and he just recently got out okay and when I was there I worked at a group home for people with special needs that was like my part time job and a Lotta Times Asher would get a go with me and everybody was always say you're leaving in two weeks we would never really get attached to a house we would never really get too attached to friends even honestly not too attached to people at jobs asher and in his little buddy Eli we had him as well it was just a focal point for our family these dogs that we that we would play with and home and I always found that you know the dogs were this awesome focal point almost like a social buffer to help eh it pulls you out of that a lot and that was I think maybe the biggest thing for me was who what am I going to take my dog to play or what am I gonNa do with my dog later work not only that my husband would be gone so even if I was moving it's not like I could completely rely on the consistency of my husband being there asher videos of soldiers coming home everybody sees that initial moment of where you're just so excited to see him in that absolutely happens but the cameras turn off and get home and especially when my husband would be gone and then he'd come home he would be gone anywhere from six months to a year and then he'd come home yeah and so that too has yet I don't really want to go to my part time job and fulltime school and I mean that's a lot and so it was always really fun knowing people will be really excited to see in a horse arena or with my dog surrounding me and as soon as that was kind of a realization it was just like full throttle forward list go back to your personal life was always there he was always there he was I always called him my copilot and he always loved it too so we we would always laugh at two that for kids six months to a year is a really long time that seems like a lifetime to a kid so I mean not in the kid just has grown kids you're like driving home sitting next to this person going like who've you been for the last year you know I mean those those aren't you know they're not playing around over there and and not only take off the heat in the pressure that the kid or even I feel when the husband comes back home so it's up so fast so they're almost completely different so they're trying to interact with that I'm you know trying to interact with my husband and it can be awkward it can be really hard reintegrating toys schnauzer she's brand new founder on a Schnauzer facebook page I would recommend staying off of those because you will end up with another dog the house the dog Ben Oh the dogs been good he caught a a butterfly in the backyard yesterday or something like that so it's almost like it's like a projection for them to in in our house he's one hundred pounds thinks he's a lapdog he sits on my eight year old who is forty pounds he sits on his lap are gonNA lay down wherever we're at and so I have tobias in that I've got a we have Lincoln he's a mini Schnauzer. He's in ten to fifteen before but I want to I mean we'd just love schnauzers so we're like okay we've had many schnauzers how can it be it's a horse we have a horse that lives for almost four years at this point in Elliott came in and she decided that she was the boss and this was her house and so we're dealing with that right yeah the dogs could really help sort of reintegrate and help the family you know sort of find its balance again I think that's a it's a beautiful them yeah so I have Tobias Tobias is a giant Schnauzer so when we got this dog we had never seen a giant Schnauzer in person for an adult you know this is this is my husband is somebody I know those are awkward times you know everybody sees on TV shows or or you know like those youtube a really great idea for a lot of families that go through transitions like this now Mary you have you have three dogs right now can you tell me about range okay he's a are Anri little bandit dog we call he has stolen the key he likes to deal things and he likes to take the kids shoes especially it's almost like something to project on let's not just talk about ourselves right now because this is really kind of you know it's a different kind of way but but the dogs were always always super fun it's the same level of excitement so I could see that when your husband's gone for six months to a year to a dog maybe it feels like he was just that he just walked out the door so in a way so we've had her for a couple months and she is a firecracker and she's the boss which is pretty interesting because we've had the other dogs reintegrate into the home because you know the dogs of course will freak out and they're excited and so then it's you know how has how have you been you know in the kids would kind of look away it's important for for us to be supportive in that place a big thing that I I hear people say a lot is well at least it was just a dog seemed to inspire you in a different direction can you tell me a little bit about the pet loss support group that you that you create it yeah yes so start a pet and when they pass everything that they helped us get through is you know it's like oh my gosh what am I going to do and so providing support for people as they're going through the because he knows if he takes the shoes that he's GonNa get an extra five minutes with the kids before they have to leave and then recently I got ellie she is a little five pound era crawl out wherever you're at so it's really funny like in our home or super used to it so you'll this opping around time because we're hopping over the dogs because twelve years we almost hit his birthday but he got cancer so I was there with him I talked him talked to them told them what a great boy was and I held him Hyundai and so you have to prepare for that too I mean that's pretty impactful especially when you're already dealing with the mental health or something of that nature I side and walk the trails with us but then I also a big part of my practice is emotional support animals helping people obtain an emotional support animal that could buses my hundred pound Bernice Mountain dog around the house like nobody's business and I love it I love watching that Oh yeah it's that's funny I love Burmese Mountain Dogs I say that those are like the covergirl of dogs or they're beautiful to Asher was with you for how many years so I had Asher for almost listen acknowledging their pain and acknowledging that it's not just a dog this was a piece of your life this was a piece of your family I think it's really important for us to do that our love he hearing how your dog's have really impacted your life both personally in your home but also professionally so you bring to bias with you to work and that really gets under my skin because the thing is is they're not just a dog there there when we're at our most vulnerable I always feel like they're almost like our secret holders me this wonderful platform to where I was able to build this pet loss support group and really started pushing it getting that out there and just and I always want my dogs to see just smiles and love as they as they transition and Yeah I'm sorry and I and so this on and and really helped with that why could see like I know like with my dogs if I'd been gone for ten minutes or I've been gone for two weeks they have they say it our phones were on our devices and you know the mind body disconnect is something that I truly believe is is where a lot of mental health problems are coming from today and the simple the thing is too when people use their animals for part of their mental health. You have to look at that as something that's going to go away cold Turkey it's just connecting your mind and your body you know we live in a society today where we are so up in our heads I mean we are just so stuck up there were on work yeah yeah so if I'm doing in office counseling than Tobias Tobias is a therapy dog in he will sit in with me or go out when he left the world so yeah good for you and that all of us dog people have been through that and saying goodbye is really hard but it again it's just part of the contract Oh that well I know that having dogs and being around animals it brings you into yourself in a different way grounds a grounds us but also just this idea end have absolutely nothing against in office work I still do in office work but I really liked the experiential piece just because I feel like it it opens up a whole nother element gosh that was a day or the kids go to bed and you're sitting down wow that wow so much going on and your dog crawls up on your lap and yeah that animals are nature they represent nature in this whole idea that your work is experiential with animals in nature I think that is so usually when I do the complete like renewal assessments and I get clients that are so excited to talk to me and tell me about I mean I've had people that were crippled with fear Info absolutely and that's the whole thing in it I feel like all animal therapy is grounded in

Tobias Tobias John Ranch Bartlett Lynn six months eleven years two weeks one thousand nine year nineteen twenty years one hundred pounds hundred pound five minutes forty pounds twelve years ten minutes eight year five pound four years ten feet
'Curious Boots' | Circle Round 69

Circle Round

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

'Curious Boots' | Circle Round 69

"Before we start today's episode have you heard the Exciting News Circle Round has released its very first southbound soundtrack the music of circle round volume one includes the circle round theme song plus all of Eric Schimmel Onassis music from our first season you'll hear the double base from Stella and the dragon the Taiko drums from the rice cakes and the only the Imbera from the Lions Ryan's whisker and so much more you can find to the music of circle round on Itunes Amazon and at the CD baby store asked ask Grownup to open an internet browser and search for the music of circle round produced by the island WBU are Boston. What what is something you're curious about. Maybe you love dinosaurs and wants to learn everything about them. Perhaps you're curious why the Sky I use blue curiosity keeps life interesting and as we're about to hear it can also bring some rich rewards I'm Rebecca share and welcome to circle round or story. Story time happens all the time today. Our story is called curious boots versions of this tale originally come from Norwick in northern Europe some really great people came together to bring you our adaptation of this folk tale including Cullen Hincks Kids you might recognize Colin and from Jumanji welcome to the jungle and grown-ups you might know Colin from life in pieces on CBS and the FX Miniseries Fargo so circle round everyone for curious boots once upon a time there was a a beautiful castle with spacious sunny windows and glittering fountains of water where people could take refreshing drink but then and the castle fell under a terrible spell thick thorny vines crawled over the walls and windows blocking out all all sunlight the royal guards tried hacking away at the twisty binds with axes knives and spears but they're sharply didn't even make a dent what's more the enchanted spell made the palaces well dry and the sparkling fountains of water disappeared so the royal guards is tried digging a new well but every time the shovels and spades hit the ground the earth turned to stone and the tools splintered into a thousand house and pieces the castle was getting darker and darker and the people at the palace were getting thirstier thirstier so the queen made a decision hereby proclaim the journey of mice subjects who can drop down these enchanted vines then dig well and indeffinite with water would be richly rewarded very richly rewarded indeed on the edge of the kingdom in a patched up little farmhouse three brothers caught wind of the Queen's challenge. The oldest brother was named Elias. The middle was named to bias and the youngest and smallest brother was named Lucas. Yeah that's me Lucas but please you can call me boots. Everybody else does the reason. Everyone called him. Boots is because he always wore these big. Floppy boots is the family farm didn't bring in much money so lucas or boots had to wear his tall strapping brother's hand me downs including the massive work boots they'd outgrown long ago when Elias Tobias and boots told their mother about the Queen's proclamation. Her eyes lit up. Oh how wonderful times have been hard on our farm and reward from the Queen could go a very long way so when will the three three of you depart for the Palace Elias and Tobias Exchange an uneasy look you mean the two of us right mom me and Tobias Yeah. There's no way boots can survive. This journey boots is so scrawny he can't even fit into his boots routes very funny. Guys mother shook her head this in boys. If you're going into travel across the kingdom you're going to travel together all three of you but before you go go promise me one. Thing boots clasped his mother's hand anything you say mother all right. Promise me that no matter what happens he'll always stay curious. You'll always ask questions and each and every time you ask a question you will not rest until you find the answer. Will you promise me see that Elias and Tobias shrugged sure it will but he said boots boots smiled of course mother always stay curious considerate done the next morning. The three brothers took off for the palace. They walked until the sun went down just as they were setting up camp in the middle of a forest boots tilted his head and his ear with his hand. I wonder what's making that sound. Elias and Tobias rolled their eyes will Gosh Josh boots given that. It's a chopping sound and we are in the middle of a or is maybe it's. I don't know an axe shopping trees fine amok but mother said to always stay curious and I'm curious to learn what's making that chop chop chopping sound I mean no human could possibly chop wood would that fast so boots hoisted his Satchel over his shoulder and debenture dig deeper into the woods he followed the chopping sound up a steep steep deep hill at the very top he came upon a clearing and what he saw their made his jaw rob in. What do you think boots spied when he reached the clearing? We'll find out after a quick break like the music you hear on Circle Round then you'll love our new soundtrack album the music of circle round volume one features all Eric Shimon Os's music from season one of the podcast you'll hear the flute from the princess in the mirror the trombone from the in the garden the Biala dicamba Barbara secret and so much more plus the circle round theme song you can find the music of circle round on Itunes Amazon and at the CD baby store asked her grown up to open their favourite Internet browser and search for the music of Circle Round. Welcome back to circle round and I'm Rebecca sheer today. Our story is called curious boots when we left off boots centers brothers were journeying to the royal palace the Queen promised rich rewards to anyone anyone who could chop down the enchanted vines covering the castle walls then dig a well and fill it with water before Elias Tobias and boots left left the family farm. Their mother told them to always stay curious. Ask questions and don't arrest until you find the answer so when the brothers Cha Cha chopping sound in the forest boots set out to investigate he came upon a clearing surrounded ended by a tangle of fallen trees each tree had been hacked cleanly across the trunk and what did boots spot flying through the air but a tiny little acts no bigger than your thumb yard aches boots ducked down as the axe raised overhead. Suddenly the Stop spun around and came to rest at pizzas feet. Hey Nice boots their friend tat on the big side. Maybe but nice all the same boots is is widened. What are you why I'm an ax of course and you stay in this clearing. Bring in shop and shop all by yourself. I do but not anymore. Boots cocked his head. What do you mean not anymore anymore. Well now that you're here. I can stop. I've been waiting a long time for you friend and now I can come with you. So what do you say we make like a tree and leave boots reached for the axe alright. If you you say so then he dropped the axe into his SATCHEL and headed back to his smirking brothers will little brother. Did you discover ever what was making that chopping sound boots grinned. Actually you know what I did and you are right guys. It was an ex chopping the tree now. What do you say we call it a night. The three of US still have quite a journey ahead the next day. The brothers walked until the sun went down just as they were setting up camp on a Rocky Hill. What's making that sound as with the night before Elias Enter bias rolled their eyes. will she boots given that. It's a digging sound. Maybe maybe it's wait for it. Channel All right all right make phone of me but mother told us to always stay curious. I'm curious to learn what's making that sound. I mean how could a simple shovel title possibly breakthrough all this heart stone so boots picked up his SATCHEL and scrambled over the rocks. He followed the digging sound all the way to two pit which appeared over the edge. What did he see but a tiny little shovel no longer than your finger and it was scooping into the stone and scattering fragments of rock all over the place whoa boots covered his face as shards of stone came hurtling his way just in the shovel spring out of the pit and stop at feet fancy boots friend. I'd wear Mina. We bit smaller if I had feet but hey do each their own boots gaped at the shovel. What are you. What does it look like. I'm a shovel and you stay in this pit and dig and dig all by yourself. I do but not anymore. Goods thought back to his encounter. Ah The axe hang on. You haven't been waiting for me have you actually I have and now I can finally stop digging income with you. So how about we make like a rock and roll boots picked up the shovel. Okay then if you say so oh he dropped the shovel in his SATCHEL. Next to the tiny acts then returned to his sneering brothers so little brother did you learn and what was making that digging sound boots beamed. Actually I did and again. You two were right. It was a shovel level now. How `bout we hit the Hey We still have a ways to go before we reach the palace the next day the brothers walked until the sun on went down just as they were setting up camp in a grassy meadow. I wonder what's making that sound as with the night before and the night before that Elias and Tobias rolled their eyes quayle golly boots given that it's a rippling sound. Maybe it's call me crazy but as poke fun at me again but remember mother told us to always stay curious and I'm curious to learn what's making that rippling sound I mean there's not a stream or brook or a creek insight so boots grabbed his Satchel and set out across the meadow. He followed the rippling sound to a stream and when he followed the stream to its source he discovered all of the water was trickling out of a hazelnut suits stooped down to get a closer look as he did droplets of water splashed his feet. How you doing friend sorry about the dribble. Those big floppy boots of yours waterproof boots gawked at the hazelnut. What are you can't you tell I'm a hazelnut and you sit here and trickle trickle all by yourself I do but those days are over boots thought back to his encounter with the shovel and with the axe. Let me guess you've been waiting for me. Bingo and now I can finally you stop and come with you so let's make like a river and run booth scooped up the hazelnut well then if you say so he found some Moss and plugged up the crack in the nut and he placed the nut in his Satchel next to the shovel and the axe and found on his way back to his snickering brothers. What's up little brother? Did you and your curiosity discover what was making that rippling. MM sound boots nodded actually yes and once more you tour right. It was a stream now. Let's hit the sack doc if we stay on course we'll get to the palace tomorrow. When the brothers arrived the found the queen slumped over in her throne she rubs her temples. Let out a sigh then looked at Elias. Tobias and boots with tired is welcome gentlemen. Would you believe you're the last three people in this entire kingdom to show up every single. One of your fellow citizens has failed to fulfil challenge challenge but hey might as well give it one more try. She waved a hand toward the thick thorny vines twisting up down and across the castle walls calls. Let's start with chopping down these vines who will try. I the brothers had decided they would go from oldest to youngest so Elias stepped forward forward and bowed allow me. Your Majesty Elias took an ax from one of the Royal Guards then he took a deep breath heaved the ax over over his shoulder and began to shove guts even though he had and waxed with all his he couldn't make a stent and will so much for that the Queen motioned for Tobias to give it a try just like Elias Tobias hacked and whack whack muscle in his body but he couldn't make a dent either. The Queen Furrowed Brow and pointed at boots. It's it's all up to you young men though at this point I suspect my palace will never sees the night to gain Oh. Don't you worry your Highness. I've got this boots reached into his Satchel and pulled out the tiny acts immediately. His brothers brothers began to chuckle. You're going to chop down. Those chanted fines with that. Little thing acts is no bigger than my some couldn't even clip a flower boots paid them no attention instead he held the little axe up high. Okay Chop chop away little friend to everyone's astonishment tiny acts flu boots hand and raised toward the vines if world through the air shopping and shopping until all of the vines came crashing to the ground and glorious rays of sunlight streamed through each every window. Elias Tobias and the Queen all stared at boots but how did you where did you which was most interested young men but you won't earn your rich reward until you fulfill the second part of challenge in dig that well you got it boots reached into his Satchel and pulled out the shovel the teeny tiny one. That's no longer than your pointer finger dig and dig Giga way little friend immediately the tiny shovel leaped out of Buddha's hand and dove toward the ground fragments of rock exploded it in the air as to shovel dug deeper deeper what home that's magnificent young men but how will you feel a well that deep with water not to worry your highness again boots reached into his Satchel and can you guess what he pulled out. That's right the the hazelnut. He plucked the moss out of the crack. Then dropped the nut into the well trickle trickle away little friend instantly the hazelnut began trickling and trickling until the well was filled to the brim with fresh glittering water. You done it young a young men now. You may claim your Rick reward in exchange for all three tasks. You've accomplished. I will send you home with gold as much much gold as you can. Caddy thank you your Highness. lutes held up his SATCHEL will. If you don't mind I'll take as much gold as you can fit inside this shoulder bag and and he kicked off his boots. I'll also take as much gold as you can fit inside these big floppy boots you see my family's family's been struggling to get by and I'll gladly walk back to our farm barefoot. It means we can put that much more food on the table. The Queen Gazed at the big floppy boots then she gazed at boots and smiled consider that the brothers began their long journey across the kingdom boots carried his gold filled. Satchel and Elias and Tobias each carry one big floppy Goldfield boot but boots wasn't travelling barefoot. No after leaving the palace his older brothers insisted fisted they stopped at the marketplace they marched right up to a shoemaker and told boots to pick out a brand new pair of shoes all his own then the three brothers headed home laughing and smiling every step of the way and now. It's your turn. What's something curious about and you don't yet know the answer. Maybe you've been wondering why airplane stay in the air. How earthworms concede without is or simply. What makes your favorite food taste so darn good now that you've asked Mr Question pick a grownup and work together to find an answer. I bet you'll have a whole lot of fun along the way this week. Story Ori Curious was adapted by me Rebecca sheer circle rounds original music and sound design by Eric Shallowness you can find the music of Circle Round Komo Eric's compilation of music from season one of the podcast on itunes Amazon and the CD baby store grownups just open your Internet browser and search rich for the music of Circle Round Circle Round story editor is Virginia Martial artist is Sabina subpoena has drawn a black and white picture every circle round story and you can color them. Ask A grownup to visit our website. WBZ DOT ORG slash circle round and click on color in pages ages special. Thanks to this week's actors John Bell L. Borders Kevin Korbut Emily dipietro Laura Gardner Adam Mastroianni Honey SCARPA and Colin Hanks. Look for Colin on the big screen this December in Jumanji next level and check out his new kerchief shift company with proceeds from every purchase going to charity. It's called wait for it. kerchiefs get it. Kinks kerchiefs in Karachi Ritchie Anyway the feature instrument. Today's story was the Harpsichord. You can read about this member of the keyboard family and see a picture on our website. WBZ will you be dot org slash around. Have you subscribed to circle round yet. Find US on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and please write us a review that helps other families find the show circle round is a production of Wvu Art Boston's NPR news station. I'm Rebecca Sheer. Thanks for circling around with us as you're listening to circle round right now. Did you know that you're not alone. That's right right. Hundreds of thousands of other kids are listening to all over the world and many of them have sent us recordings. They talk about their favorite. Circle around stories have a listen. Maybe one of their stories is one of yours to renews live in Olympia Washington. Ashamed my favorites. I the race cakes any within months shrimp. I Love Melia in our Sunny Sandy. A Go and live favorite story from circle round is the half the Horn of the purrs ninety near them flee and maintaining still in the kid's feelings about lady is is my name is and the bell and my favorite story is the Golden. Wham my name is Charlotte nine from mm. Denver Colorado my favorite stories a taste of honey because I like honey and it reminds me as a five day by myself. I'm nine discipline mention an episode. You missed no problem. You can find every single circle around story on our website. That's WBZ DOT ORG slash circle round or wherever you and your grownups get your podcasts

Elias Tobias Circle Round Boots Itunes Amazon Palace Elias Colin Hanks Royal Guards Tobias Yeah Rebecca sheer Tobias Exchange Lucas Jumanji Europe Eric Schimmel Onassis US Lions CBS Norwick
Tobias Carlisle  Assets are Valuable, but Cash Flow Is King

My Worst Investment Ever Podcast

00:00 sec | 11 months ago

Tobias Carlisle Assets are Valuable, but Cash Flow Is King

"In a very long story short but they were doing was running out of cash so selling these very undivided. They will being taken advantage of not the other way around the the funnel the end of that things they ended up in bankruptcy third had low fellow risk-takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning in our community. We know that to win an investing. You must take risks but to win big. You've got to reduce it. Today's episode is sponsored by the valuation masterclass Online. The complete proven step-by-step online course guide you from novice devaluation experts. podcast listeners. Can claim your amazing seizing thirty five percent discount by going to my worst investment ever dot com slash deals. My name is Andrew Stotz from ace dots. Investment Research. And I'm here with with featured. Guests Tobias Carlisle Tobias. Are you ready to rock. I'm ready to rock all right. Let me tell the audience a bit about you. Tobias is is the founder of the acquirers multiple is also the founder of acquires funds. He is best known as the author of the number one new release in Amazon business. This and finance the acquirers multiple how billionaire contrarians of deep value. beat the market. Also the Amazon best-sellers Deep Value Y.. Activists Investors and other the country and battle for control of losing corporations also quantitative value a practitioner's guide to automating intelligent investment in any eliminating behavioral errors which is very important and concentrated investing strategies of the world's greatest concentrated value investors sisters he has extensive experience in Investment Management Business Valuation Public Company Corporate Governance and corporate law prior to founding the forerunner to acquire his fund. In two thousand isn't ten. Tobias was an analyst at an active his head fund general counsel of a company listed on the Australian Stock Exchange and a corporate advisory lawyer as a lawyer specialising in mergers and acquisitions. He has advised on transactions across a variety of industries in the United States. The U K China Australia Singapore Bermuda Papa. New Guinea New Zealand in Guam. He is a graduate of the University of Queensland in Australia. With degrees in law and Business Tobias take take a minute and filling any further tidbits. Not Your Life. The only thing that I should be the main thing to mention is my full time. Job Is as portfolio manager manager of the acquirers fund which is an ETF listed on the New York Stock Exchange. The ticket is Z. I. G. Zig Ziglar in the markets eggs. That's a long long short deep value fund very traditional sort of long positions. We try to buy them really deeply valued which means that. I don't like to pay a lot for growth for balance sheet strength. Lots of free cash lead buying back stock and short stuff that's massively evaluate in in distress losing lots of money lots of debt on the balance sheet and so it makes it really easy to buy. We run that it's kind of a it's a passion. It's a vacation. It's an avocation and so that's my fulltime job so I got lots of loses lots of really bad positions. It's really easy to talk about that because we were wrong. About forty percent of the time and at fifty two percent of the time. So that's a little bit of an a coin. Flip Hebert honey when I'm right I'm really right. It's the magnitude of a frequency right when you for those isometric position so when you get them right you make galant when you get them wrong. You don't lose much exactly. I'm just curious before we go on to the main question over here in Asia. We don't have such such things as ETF's as kind of a method of implementing your strategy. Can you just give us a briefing for the listeners. kind of what does that mean. Because in the old days you started a fund and you went out your applied for all the man and you know you raise money into that fund. I'm just curious. Like what's the Pros Rosen cons and how what like. Yeah that's a great question. So an exchange traded fund. ETF is a slightly different structure. So you might be it. Familiar with a mutual fund or a limited partnership which is how most hedge funds structured. What those things are that? You have to sort of contact the manager Asia in order to invest in those things often you need to be credited which is which means you need a certain level of assets or income and any moves the manager of the manager sales position that has some capital gains in that flows through to you as the whole so you might not have a gain but you re paying tax acce the ETF is this incredible creation that you can buy three. Oh brokerage accounts of European up your brokerage account it should be available in the NYC he's Zig Zag NYC whichever way around Zig dot us. Something like that. And it's not a four three vehicle for capital gains provided that it's managed properly which means set we make buys and sells in the font and they don't impact you. What happens is your capital gain is where you buy it and ways so So it's it's a lot. It's the same as buying a share price shot. So it's it's like a stock exactly right. It's like a stock trades of stocks. And just curious because when I left America was nineteen ninety two and I left America right about where you are living and came to Thailand and of course we didn't really even have EDF's offset that time. I'm just curious. Maybe you could just give the the listeners. Just a real brief discussion of why would somebody implement their ideas it through an ETF. In America to say where where there's lots of options versus implementing your ideas through a fun what benefit you get from that the reason reason to do it as some sort of hedge fund so you can charge higher fees you get you get a big fat management fee and a big fat carry. If you're like I am and you sort sort of you know clearly Australian of been in the states for about a decade now the way that I've got recognition or the way that have gotten on is through writing books. 'cause I don't have a great network here on people so there's a trend in this industry towards lower fees for the most part so I kind of height getting lockups. I think there's any reason to look up capital which is what the hedge funds. It's difficult to get in and out of the Hedge Fund when you have an underlying so this the hedge fund invests my phone sorry invests in basically the universe is the S. and P. Fifteen hundred which is a compasses index the largest fifteen hundred stocks out of that. Maybe there are like three thousand investable stocks in the states. That's very liquid so there's just no reason from to throw up gates and make it very common for people to get in and out so this thing is it's easy for smaller. Investors to invest through their brokerage account directly into the fund. I can manage it. Describe what's happening. You can say the holdings role published every day on the website which is acquires fun dot com and you can see all of the in in a workings and everything so it's just a trend of the will towards transparency and love phase and so I just thought I'd get out in front of the trend. Got It that makes sense. Do you know. Oh how many large and liquid companies there are in the Chinese stock market if you just said that don in the US market you mentioned about three thousand as has. Potentially you know kind of what we could call investable. It's hunt with individual. It might be. They might be more than that. It might be. It could be five thousand or something like that the for sort of professional investors. It's about three thousand. Yeah I DID FOR MY PhD dissertation. One of my things I needed to do is look look at markets across the world particularly across Asia and determine what was you know what was the definition of large and liquid and I came up with the definition. Well well I would say that. The definition of large and liquid is probably minimum two hundred fifty million dollars and you would say average average daily turnover of depends. I mean you could say half a million dollars to a million dollars the definition depends. Are we talking about kind of a high net worth or are we talking about an institutional investor but something along that line so it does include small-cap. We don't want to exclude small-cap but it got to be that you could put some reasonable reasonable amount of money in it. If it's only trading one hundred thousand dollars a day you know. It's very hard to allocate money to that which to standards. It's harder to meet. Do you think the two eight hundred fifty million or the half million to a million shares a day. The half a million two million shows a day. And it's really what's most important is that you can actually get it in and out for most people but what was interesting to me is that China has three thousand large and liquid companies. Wow investable companies and it's growing at such a pace I think my number for the US with something like four thousand five hundred so your number that you said about five thousand is probably about right and we do this study. I did the study about three years ago and I've updated pretty regularly. I haven't really published it. I should do more on that but I would. Guess it's five five thousand so I'll take you. I'll take your number. So what my forecast from that is that five years from now based upon trends in China and in the US China we'll we'll have more large and liquid companies in their stock market. In fact China will become a bigger more investable stock market the core war of capitalism states. That's crazy that's amazing. I mean that's just a an interesting statistic based upon you know what we're talking about so yeah there you go in fact I should probably include a link to that in the show notes. If anybody wants to dig immoral. I'll take a look at a study up. Yeah I will so anyways anyways now it's time to share your worst investment. Ever since no one goes into their worst investment thinking it will be tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to it and then tell us your story. Why should say I've always you know I read all of buffet stuff before I ever started investing in kind of prevented from investing in a lot of stuff because I was an eminent lawyer Royal? It's just not a good look at the youngest lawyer on the deal team has a position in the stock. That's getting taken over. Looks like insider trading so we kind of always bod from buying anything so I had read all the theory by the time I got before I even opened my first brokerage account and so I didn't advocate of never got very concentrated of never had an enormous awesome out of network in any individual positions. So I've been quite comfortable making lots of dumb Ariza and putting the money in the wrong positions and I've learned a lot. That's how you learn. You know you might make as many mistakes as you can as quickly as you can. And that's kind of figure out what you're doing so it's hard for me to narrow it down to just one but I'll tell early. This was for me. This is an important one in my own evolution as an investor so I started out looking for kind of undervalued assets. That's how I started up. I stock up. You're looking at net Karnak net net steel Graham net nets and I graduated from Graham net nets to looking at more of these kind of acid heavy heavy businesses and trying to find ones that would deeply devout so in when the BP oil spill happened. I forget exactly when that is maybe be at more than a decade ago. I had this thought. I don't WANNA be right in the epicenter of that. I don't want to be in BP but there were all of these other any oil and gas company that was in the Gulf or nearby got dinged up pretty badly and one in particular was seahawk drilling and what seahawk drilling at the head. About one hundred fifty of these Jack Up Rigs Jack up rig is something at floats out into the middle of the Gulf of Texas put sits Harland's it's down into the bottom and injects itself up out of the water and drills and what they did. was they lease them out to other companies that were drilling so you can imagine as soon as the BP oil go happens all those drilling stops. They get there in a lot of trouble and so they don't have a lot of cash flow but they're very acid heavy so I figured out that trading like ten cents on the dollar. That was my estimate estimate. The big problem is that is not cash for so they were saying. There's never been an opportunity like this to buy Jack Up rigs in the Gulf Texas and it's like really capitalizing become you know the big driller in this area. And so I thought well this is here. We go these guys know what they're doing very very undervalued value. They're going to capitalize on this. This is exactly what I'm looking for. And I have subsequently learned when I wrote concentrated investing we and we interviewed Christian. CMO Em. WHO's like the Norwegian oil and Gas Maestro? He created transition. He's been around forever. He says you buy these companies when Abe it when they're losing the money that's the time to buy. You seldom when making a lot of money. You know. It's counter cyclical counter-intuitive. That's kind of contrary sway value works so it was kind doing the right thing. The issue was that these guys just didn't have the cash so I look at the quarterly report and I'd say that they'd sold some rigs and like I wasn't smart enough off to think that's kind of the opposite of what you said you were doing to cut a very long story short. What I would doing was running out of cash? So selling these very undefended rigs they were being taken advantage of the other way around the funnel. The end of that thing was they ended up in bankruptcy. And I I didn't write it all the way Oy into bankruptcy but I was done. ICO Ninety percent didn't really matter. It was as close to being one hundred percent wrong as you can possibly be but it was disappointing because I thought the faces. This is pretty good and written publicly about this little website greenback just to let go look at the wreckage of this position. It still on the side. Yeah I just got it wrong and it's one of those things that I still think the the basis was sound one. I just missed an this is probably the the takeaway from it. You can have a face but you have to be very careful of the cash flow. That was sort of one of the things that transitioned me away from doing that. Shouli asset based investing looking at flows of a little bit more closely looking at cash flows looking at balance sheet health in addition to making sure that the business business was actually operating in a good one right. And what lessons did you learn from this. Well that was the very beginning of studying on the path towards where I am. Now which is I look for. I want my focus is. It's the acquirers multiple acquires funds. We WanNA think why can acquire a think like a buyout fund. Think like an activist. Think like someone who looks at the company in its tea and when you do that you know only buying the equity the market capital. I think about the debt you'd think about any other debt like security preference shares that kwanzaa debt somewhere between ditton equity underfunded pensions. That are million ways to get caught convertible not be very careful about is holes in the balance sheet that might sink. Thank you and then on the other hand you've got the free cash buybacks for the reason that Taffarel's signal now buyback secure at the but Erin expensive companies but on the valid company so the very existence of a buyback doesn't tell you much often a buyback is doing is just cleaning up shit option option issuance to to send its material buyback that you WANNA big Bob. The and that's an important message. One thing that management probably agrees the stock is undervalued open to it tells you that the free cash flow is real and I think there's going to be more in the future. That's a very powerful message and the materiality not reality of it tells you the evaluation of the company just. It's just sort of a matter in expensive. The the businesses not a huge part of a the overall valuation size of the business such as comp back much stock whereas if the if the businesses trading very cheaply in the sorry if the market capitalization is cheap cheap if the price is cheap at the businesses quite substantial relative to the size of capitalisation when they buy back stock it is very material so material buyback is a very powerful signal. That's why I run my business now. The acquires multiple. Just identifies these sort of stocks in the acquires fund. We do a little bit more work and then we bought them or show them as the case may be One question about that before I get into my comments when a sheriff prices going down as this one did quite substantially but as you think about got it now obviously our number one risk management for your type of investing. Let's say in my type of investing a number one risk management tool is good research right so we like the company. We've seen that. The company is strong like the corporate governance therefore if the sheriff vice goes goes down. Hey it's cheaper right but at some point that's wrong and in this case you know that was the case. I'm just curious as far as deciding whether to exit or add to position when a stock goes down. How do you think about that in relation to? Let's say this what you learn from this and just you know your own thinking about that. Yeah it's it's a very hard decision to make. It's the hardest one to make because most of the time the markets right right and you're wrong so you have to be a little bit humble about it but then equally you know in order to beat the market you have to be able to make these. You have to be able to buy these things and saving go against you. A big pot of becoming comfortable with the position is doing the valuation. So I always like to do the valuation then you anchor to the valuation not the share price stumping can be cheap and still go into bankruptcy. So let's not it doesn't Save Your Life have to look at the health of the business. You have to look at the health of the balance sheet. You want the quality of the business to be at a reasonable sufficient so that it can't survive that debt to equity ratio is quick ratios making sure they can accommodate interest on making sure that you can cover the bullet payment on the debt that becomes to all sorts of things you have to be comfortable with and then you're looking at the share price. Select something that can be taken advantage of. I wouldn't sell or otherwise because of the movement in the Kapros even though that does mean though sometimes they're going to be wrong and Mike a silly mistake that had followed the share price more closely with got rod but I think that unbalanced it works to make more money that way. So that's that's the way that's the way I don't. I let let me summarize what I took away from your story and and let me know if you missed anything if I missed anything the first thing I wrote down his assets are valuable but cash is king and I think it's a great lesson that you you know it's great to have I mean think about you know there's a lot of people that are asset rich in cash for and the problem about that is they can't meet your bills because the cash does not there. The consequences are massive. And so that's a great lesson. The other thing that that I thought about was something that my mother always said. We said when you marry someone you marry their family and just made me think about how when you buy something. You're buying everything and you talked about the idea of looking at it from an acquirers perspective. Active that means you know you gotta think about that debt you gotta think about that preferred share whereas if you're not thinking requires perspective. It's kind of a date what you're trying to think of it is. This is a marriage and I think that that's kind of a takeaway from my own kind of personal life life but it's a good one all right well based upon what you've learned from this story and what you continue to learn. What one action would you recommend our listeners? Take avoid suffering the same fate and I do want to caveat this a little bit because there's many listeners who are fundamental analysts digging deep into a story feel very confident about their story and maybe right on most parts of it but they're just about to make the same mistake state humane. So what one piece of advice would you tell them to do. It's very hard to narrow it down to one piece of advice but I really think that the most important thing is not so much stock selection but portfolio management which means provided that. You don't stick too much into any given position. You can't lose anything that's not in it. So he just needs to be sufficiently diversified and just take care with the concentration. Because the thing that I have seen over and over and over again not so much in my own portfolio because I got that religion very early but in in portfolios of friends of mine is that they put too much into the one position and then they keep on raping as it goes down to zero so for me. It's just don't get too concentrated into any given position got it and this highlights from all the interviews. I've done in the stories that have been submitted to me being an analyst. I analyzed it and I tried to tease out. What are the main mistakes that people have made? And they're six common mistakes in this one. What you're mentioning and also what you talked about for your your story is number two and that means the second most common? The first most common is that they failed to do their own research. That was the case in your in your case number choose failed to properly assess and manage risk. And I think that what you're talking about. First of all the assessment of the risk but the second part is the managing of the sizing the position and thinking about diversification and. I think there's another paper that I wrote particularly in Asia that was academic paper that I said it's called the ten stocks are enough in Asia Asia and what I tried to highlight was that you know a Lotta Times. Diversification in the world of investing professional professional investing institutional investing. It's actually. It's actually used in the wrong way the opposite way of the way I think it should be thought of you know the beauty of what Harry Markowitz described in his original original work on diversification. was that you don't need that. Many stocks to get rid of that company specific risk. It's not he wasn't saying add more and more and more stocks to get rid of all risk he was saying. Wow it's amazing. How much risk can be gotten rid of which is a small number of stock so so if you look at the trade off between risk and return and you ask yourself how do I get rid of the maximum amount of risks without getting rid of the opportunity to outperform? Because if you own every doc you're not going to outperform and my number was ten in Asia and you say to an average individual investor never owned less than ten stop. You Karadzic listened. I I like you know my portfolio. My acquires fun portfolios thirty. And that's a very common number in both academia using using Mauka wits get rid of the non-diversified will risk somewhere between twenty and thirty also for the value investors clam Graham. They sort of fall out around that number Y- Yup it really depends. It's just really. It becomes a matter of Thais much volatility. Can you wear in your portfolio. How much work you prepared to positions? What sort of positions Z.? Putting on 'cause I buy and sell options as a value investor not not an option trader. which is a very different way of doing it? But some of these options you know they have zero intrinsic value that could expire with with. I'm not going to put ten cinema pool volume to something like that. I'm not one percent but three percent depending on. How Confident Ron? I'm feeling but that's still a much much smaller position than anybody going more concentrated than ten. Yeah well the thing about ten is it was kind of the minimum and many you know it makes sense to hold more than that or in my case if I get close to ten than what I do is apply stop losses because losing eighty eighty percent of a ten percent holding is still pretty massive. That'll ruin your year. Yes exactly all right last question. What's your number one goal for the next twelve months? You know I want that run. The acquires fund to outperform the market. And that's not something that you know. That's my wish. That's not a guarantee you know that's hard to do. Most I funds. Don't do that but I do think that there are some reasons why value might work really well at the moment and one of them is that it's very bad. Two Year run starting January Henry Two thousand eighteen. It's really under perform the market and I think that is when that happens. Typically what happens is that the there's a bounce back off to. Its and I think that would probably I think it started August twenty seven which was the best day. Full value was stifling momentum. I think it's continued on September October and through November. So I'm hopeful been had my heartbroken a few times by this by the old value investing but I think that of all of the strategies that are out. They've values the one right right now. That is the only one that in absolute and relative times can generate some good performance yeah and the underperformance has been more than just two years if you look at it you know. It's been almost a decade because because the stock market was it's been down for two years at a mark up and the subtitle of that is here underperformance coming up on their decade. Tough all right listeners. There you have another story of loss to keep winning to find more stories like this previous episodes and resources to help you reduce your risk visit my worst investment assessment. Ever as we end Tobias. I WanNa thank you again for coming on the show. I know it's painful. Talking about are losers but our listeners. Learning to win as a result. Do you have any parting words awards for the audience. None at all. I'm very familiar with Louis because I have them all the time. You shouldn't be worried about them. That's a good way to learn. And they'll be more in the future so you got to come to terms with them. Don't let them blow up your portfolio and blow up your mind too much. Yes the last part is very important. Ladies and gentlemen because Remember Majority of people that I asked asked to come on the show say no way so I think what you've shown Tobias is that you know you have the ability to look through your worst investment investment and grow from that and I think that's ultimately what would make you a great person to follow in and listened to so that's a wrap on another great story to help us create grow in most importantly protect our wealth fellow risk-takers. I'll see you on the upside.

Asia Tobias Carlisle Tobias United States China analyst Investment Management Business Amazon Australian Stock Exchange America University of Queensland Gulf founder Zig Ziglar portfolio manager manager Australia Andrew Stotz
Tobias Rauscher - The YouTube  Satellite Strategy

The Hustle & Flowchart Podcast

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Tobias Rauscher - The YouTube Satellite Strategy

"Boom boom boom boom boom. What's up everybody you're listening to the hustle and flow chart podcast boy man wolf and joe fear boom pick kick wards up everyone. Hey welcome back to the hustle and flow chart podcast. It's a lovely de is a lovely day in studio. <hes> we're actually spent the day before yesterday actually in studio. I feel like that's our life these days. We'll talk about that in a different episode all right today. We're not talking about being in studios. We're actually talking to a digital nomad who loves to travel the world but this guy's got his business automated to it t- he travels the world armed with the guitar tarling laptop. It's yeah like again but it's guitar no it doesn't it could be like desperado guitar that that's a gun on that looks like a guitar case movie though maybe until bias is secretly desperado all right tobias auchere. I might have butchered your name. I'm sorry but tobias is on the show with us today. In this guy is like no no kidding at all like one of the best guitarist i think i've ever heard and and if you just go check out i think on the show notes page will probably gonna embiid one of his videos just peek over there occasion yeah it's at the very least will link over to his youtube channel ago ago so he's going to walk through and he's created like a whole frigging beast of a youtube channel over thirty five million views probably more more at this point <hes> and around four hundred thousand subscribers on youtube in just social followings galore so we break down a ton of youtube strategies have how how he got to that point yeah we kind of dive deep and really kind of pick apart his youtube strategies. He's got one thing that he calls the youtube satellite strategy which i've literally never never heard anybody ever talk about before and i even through around some ideas and mike how to hack that strategy but we'll get to that later hacker bring comes out a hacker brain income's out but he's got this really cool youtube strategy. That's works well and he's managed to duplicate it for for other products and he uses you to drive traffic to its courses and we dive deep deep into how his courses designed tools he uses for his course so this is kind of like a mix of blended episode between like youtube strategy and like kind of course building strategy <music> guess with a little bit of digital nomad lifestyle talk sprinkled in i._t. That's a very accurate yeah. It's a good synopsis of what you're about to hear. Yeah usually love it it. What can they do if they want another synopsis of what they're about well. The best synopsis of this happens every episode actually if you go to hustle and flow chart dot com slash comp c._e._o. Theo m._p. That's going to be your notes for this episode if he hurry over there within a week this thing releasing go get him for free. We got your back. We got our note taker taking notes for all the action items so you'll have your action guide of this episode yeah for sure and all the all the tactics and tips and strategies that he breaks down around youtube will break those down on the notes in step <unk> by step fashion for you. Also you want to support this show. Coming evergreen prophets member go to g._p. Letter dot com and you can become an evergreen prophets member. What's that i'm gonna get ya. I don't know that's going to get you a monthly newsletter mailed to you every month in the physical mail like this snail like you're actually going to have to walk outside open a mailbox the paper pull it out of an envelope and read this thing but you also get access to the community you could access the training actually starting to do live calls every month with our members i we can do q._n._a.'s and talk about some of the behind the scenes stuff is working and it's it's kind of like a bonus podcast episode every month but interactive you could ask us questions and we're going to talk about some behind the scenes gene stuff and it's just a really cool benefit of supporting us with the evergreen profits membership. It's fifteen bucks a month. No-brainer <hes> go to g._p. Letter dot com com to get that and if you can if you want just the notes for this one you've got to be quick but you can go hustle and flow chart dot com slash comp that we'd love to hook you up with both of them so they'll get them. Both let's talk to mice brad. Hey tobias welcome to the show. Hey thanks yeah man so we connect it a little while back. I think you actually reached out to us. Surge following some of our stuff and i hopped on your summit. You did back at the actually recorded it in bali like i remember the sun son was rising as the video. We were recording in the background. I was like oh you back in germany now. Which feels like brian so do you sleep. Sometimes i sleep. Yes do occasionally yeah so like when you reached out. I was like okay this guy and checked into what you're doing and you're very lifestyle you you have this. It seems like a perfect lifestyle business for yourself. You're very diversified so i'm like. This is an interesting dude. He's a new initiate your like one of the best guitarist i think i've ever heard so you're going to have and you have like thirty five million plus views and all your videos on mm youtube. Yes yeah like take us. I guess there's a lot of different rabbit holes. We're going to go down but give us some background. How'd you get started handed in all this whole lifestyle business and guitar and all that it's a right after my studies i kind of pounded startup in berlin and we go live some venture capital from some famous devi stations in germany and <hes> but still after three years we didn't get the follow up investment and we didn't reach our revenue goals and then i we had to close down the startup and for me. This was kind of <hes>. Actually i always wanted to start your own business and then at this company but i wasn't really happy with it. I felt really yet actually really trapped in your report investors all the time and there was a lot of pressure on my shoulders and having a team and being <unk> <unk> vulnerable team and i was more like i want to travel wanna be re. If i don't want to work for a month i don't yeah one to have to work and so author of my first endeavor help i decided to go more into this lifestyle business mall timothy ferriss stylish style and at that time i you generally took off and i got a lot of of us and then i was like okay i kind of need to monetize that traffic <hes> from that i get from youtube and then i founded my i own business with lead was totally independent. <unk> is an online guitar academy that still run and it's like a yeah like a membership side people pay monthly or yearly fee and this kind up really freaked me up and then <hes> sitting at home. You didn't have to do anything because money was coming in recovery and i started to travel around and focusing on new projects and this is how everything started in the beginning wow okay so i like the fact that he started with startups because we've been through that and we completely relate to the whole like you have to report to your investors in this tieman. It's almost like it's decision by committee is like what we've used to so we yeah we bailed out of that whole scene and went more lifestyle. Yeah i'm curious. I'm curious just kind of dive into the youtube stuff a little bit so you've got thirty five million. How many subscribers do you have on your youtube channel currently around three hundred thirty thousand three hundred thirty thousand so let's talk about how how how you built that youtube channel like. How did you get the initial momentum. I know in the beginning. You weren't monetize. You're you're putting great content out there but how did that initial. She'll traction happen. How did you initially get discovery channel. The first i hit like for example ten thousand views was our when i uploaded my first video memories and i basically asked the channels and back then the facebook pages had really a good organic reach and i reached out to them and ostlund to share yeah my if they wanted to share my video and then more and more pages chad my videos and then it kind of <hes> kept on going like this <hes> <hes> snowball effect a lot of people shared it and then the algorithm from youtube was catching up and noticing that i had not like high watch time <hes> <hes> and at their videos kind of popular and then you've stopped showing your videos to others as well and from then on basically at really hit offset think in the beginning it's really compartment to yet create some momentum some people even by which i don't necessarily recommend to do because if you buy for example fake abused by nas just for three or five or ten seconds or whatever but on youtube it's all about the watch time so you can't really trick the algorithm you have to you like cape like half your audience what you videos like for more than fifty or sixty percent and then you cheek will recommend you really because one. The important thing about youtube is what a lot of people don't know that the most off the traffic comes from youtube recommending or suggesting your videos to abbott people that might be interested in that so it's not as much as s._e._o. Staff <hes> you can be found on youtube as well but really the power of youtube. It's a when youtube starts to recommend <hes> recommending your videos to others and that's in that basically happens by people watching past like a certain percentage percentage of your videos versus like like you were saying if someone buys a view it might only get them like a a one second view that facebook does youtube doesn't even really recognized ignites as of you but if you get organic views than they may watch fifty sixty plus percent and that's what youtube is looking for absolutely but even if you just have like twenty ninety seconds ten seconds or whatever it's not that youtube thousand recognized that view even pellet penalized because it's like irks your audience retention attention and then youtube sees that you videos relevant because the other three minute video by people leap is video off the twenty seconds you have a tricky low audience retention vassallo watch stein and then basically you can do whatever you want. Your video will not rank because youtube basically nose all metrics and so of course one thing is really important of that is of course quality like you have to put quality content out there but then the good thing is once you have this out there. It's like a like. Maybe a bit like a good article that is ranking really well like you even gang views of a time so it's not like instagram facebook where you push something out there and then after a few days the basically dead or gone and you have to applaud new staff like still my or my <hes> most popular video still awake it has around i think fourteen amino fifteen million views and it's still like it brings in so much traffic from me because youtube is still recommending this video because homes wealth so this this is of course like let's say the no brain that you have to put up the content then you still can do a lot to <hes> get your content seen and this for example to focus on the click nick through rate conversion which is really important so this out for example habit interesting tight built have <hes> a good thumbnail which is of course if you that say there's there's a <hes> suggests that video h and you have like ten videos. You want to be the video people click on nets of course ann o'brien as well and then you. I can do some really interesting stuff. It's like youtube is focused. Basically our senator ron chennai plasters so you notice that <unk> few. Let's say us thought watching. I don't know metallica video of sidon youtube is suggesting you similar videos and this is because once you channel your videos related i'm or belong to a certain channel plaster. Its way is that youtube. Suggests your videos and one way you can do this for example. It's that just wants strategy. A combat brought a lot of abuse me and actually there's one video off. John butler songs <unk> ocean and is really like if you haven't seen this song definitely check it out. It's really amazing. I detest and he got a lot of i was like okay. I kind of want to get views of his video off because i know that people who like his stuff probably probably like myself as well and then what i did was basically that i used the same tactics he was using his video and i wrote in my texas wolpert sample him as an episode name so basically to tell you that we are kind of related so that the algorithm knows okay this this kind of similar stuff then because my video has had as well a good audience retention youtube kept on record or sodden activity to recommend my my video next to his video and this when i got a lot of traffic from his video for example so to certain extent you can influence your ranking or where suggested by youtube <unk> like the fundamental thing is that you have to have good content safe. You have a video. That's just not good. You can optimize everything everything and yet do all the heck's strategies. You still won't be successful so yeah. It always goes hand in hand is kind of this this formula <unk> your own content then of course like how well is your channel and optimize like in terms of attacks video description of course a thump nail and then as well how well it is <hes> promoted like how much traffic much data on <hes> you bring a ah to the video and then if all these factors well like you definitely increase your chances of success on youtube that makes sense i mean there's there's a lot of similar philosophies there that you find like s._e._o. You know for for example in s._e._o. If you have bad content and somebody sees your link on google they click over to here. You are l. and then they bounce right back to google quickly. We'll google is probably slowly going to notice that and move you further and further down the rankings and it sounds like kind of the same thing with youtube if somebody goes to youtube video and they watch a very tiny percentage of it youtube goes okay that wasn't relevant to what they were looking for so let's show that one again absolutely absolutely and so it's like when people thought you <hes> strategy sometimes they kind of bummed after putting outside videos or whatever and whatsoever these videos videos and really performing well and one really really important thing is when you do youtube like it is a long term strategy. It doesn't thousand happen overnight and a lot of people then like lose interest because they like oh. I've pro like five or ten videos of whatsoever and it didn't really work they get don't get any abuse and it's like even when i started my i didn't get any traction at all but then it's tarts picking up and then you get more and more traffic so it's like there's this bamboo tree story like where you what are you obama tree but nothing is happening for years and then all of a sudden. It's like rowing several feet per day. It's like the time before like build the roads and it's kind of same the same with youtube so can take some time i am but then it can pick up and wants you to channel picks up. It's really like a blessing. Just yeah probably like really well. Ranking article on google stop it. Just get more and more of us and this is yet so i really really love at uky bottle yeah so let's go back really quick too because you have when you rattled off like a lot of good points. I think key points that people should know about youtube <hes>. Let's dig deeper on a couple of those like quality. I knew your video. Qualities are just crazy easy good. It looks like professional you know. I don't know if you're in a studio or something like that with your guitar. What is your processing. Ah the interesting thing is that like the really professional videos i kind of been new video but for example the videos that most of my views and just recorded them at home like with my first <hes> camera so i know another thing is like a tourist is really good and his put up a video that was out a focus so but he wrecked up almost a million views with that it doesn't necessarily have to be about video quality so you can have like really good success on youtube. A great success even was shitty videos like it's if the videos are so the content is good like it's not that much about the quality of cost ostby should have a good quality and good videos but it's not a must have you can sometimes it's really sympathetic and people can relate for example to a guitarist doc wherever who's just doing videos in his car playing somewhere and having this polished perfect music videos are whatsoever so oh yeah. I've actually heard on youtube that audio quality is more important than video. Quality people will ditch a bad audio-video faster the ditch a video poor video quality. Yeah audio's really important like that's definitely definitely interviews and stuff like this like the audio so so important yeah. You can retain like if you have a really good video shitty audio. It's way better than the other way around worse than the right. That's true yeah no kidding so that's a and you mentioned the whole like kind of borrowing authority linking king like influencing the youtube algorithms so i knew when you and i chatted before you have some tools you use the tags and all that stuff i think that's when i started realizing realizing the power of tags and how you can kind of leverage other people's tags for something you want to rank for what are some schools in like. What's your process process for doing that to try to rank like a new video or something like that. I'm for a similar. One tool is called amid. I q and this tool is kind of it's not a must have bought it helps you for example by directly showing you tax other videos or <unk> <hes> that used on other videos and it helps else you kind of show you the view las ity so how many views per hour for example certain videos get and they suggest a show you videos in your niche embiid are really popular right now where you for example can take a look at and use some of the tax whatever you want to do and that's basically what i do so you can. You can't check the text of video as well without having this tool. If you just do right click click on sauce code and then such a key works like in the sauce code and then you will find the passage with a tax on the bill uses so this kind of jiechi way and the other one is just use the <hes>. I think it's even three extension or you pay like five bucks per month or whatever you can use the <hes> ridi- q. tool rule which makes it a bit more easy and yet this for example. Do check out the competition. I don't really call it a petition because in my case the other musicians as well and i just try to find out which videos are really performing well and then i basically <unk> but before let me tell you how i find out popular videos because one thing is a lot of people when they check popular videos as they look for videos with a lot of us news but if a video has a lot of that doesn't mean that it's really popular so for example you can have a video with. I don't know ten million use. Another video was just one million views of the video with one million views wells upload itches madonna two weeks ago and gets way more use her day so as it is is higher than exactly what i do is like i just use an excellent cheat with a formula and basically a document. Let's say for example symbol. I <hes> do my research. I find the most videos at that are really popular and then i <hes> right down the view say today and then it's around seven days. Come back and check the view count at that point and then you can basically calculate what the average views per day a is that each of these videos get and then pick the ones that get most use per day so that i really more most popular and then i <hes> yet check they are taxed and by sometimes i really focus on a certain video and then basically just <hes> used the <hes> the first tax which most important once and i use the same tax within my texts of video and use for example the words like a song named the artist's name as well video description <unk> air or two to three times and these really basic modernization spread of these is that you can use empire research nice okay that that explains a lot. I love that velocity thing too. I haven't heard that before the tags yeah using did i q it's really easy even the free tool you can look at other tags and copy them save him to a clipboard so he can use them for like you know future videos if you want to so so it's yeah saves a lot of time but i like velocity strategy just laid out. That's actually pretty clever now with with like linking and youtube videos. We've heard that youtube a youtube not a friend of trying to get him off the platform like do you try to keep them on their or are you immediately trying to send them in like grown email list or join yeah. That's the big problem that's like. It's not as bad as on facebook because when you try to link out on facebook. I just noticed that i reach like drop drop like a bomb. It's like crazy. Itchy miss kind of the same like it's the prince bull youtube like the main metric for youtube is watch time. That's like the total watch watch. Time is the main metric so you want to write up a high watch time and of course if you link to own page or somewhere else you kind of decrease increase your watch page watch time because people click away leave youtube and leaving you with a <hes> noah what time and so but of course i want. Should you have these people on my email will so for example when upload videos of mine i of sometimes like matab or free i sell taps of sell ex to my qatar kademi and yes so it's kind of a trade off. It's really difficult to say but i just try not to overdo do it but i still have links and i still do it and it's profitable to get traffic from youtube of course yeah. I think there's no wrong. Riots ride on difficult to say for sure. Yeah and that's what we've heard is like. It's almost like you can keep them together. Are you can almost like keep people on a path happen youtube for maybe a period of time and then there's an exit video a time where you can you know take him off the platform so google doesn't our youtube doesn't penalize everything everything but maybe it's like a single video rather than every single one. If you drop in links ooh yeah. I'm all torn tons of strategies but like you said it's just like facebook. Book pulls the lincoln. It's like no one's going to see it for the most part really interesting test uploaded one one with your mind passionate loop loop on youtube and on facebook natively and on facebook on youtube video got over a million views on my facebook page over one hundred thousand views so but of course i've left subscribers on amnesia about both videos got hanover decent amount of us and agent and the really interesting the thing is that on youtube this same video got sixty two percent audience retention so people watch on average sixty two percent went on facebook the same video only up seven percent so that's really crazy so you really can see on facebook. It's more like fast food. You know people go through it. They don't really engage deeply and on youtube. It's more like people really watch your stop so you can really see like <hes> there is it's definitely a different quality views on both platforms. I mean that really make sense to you got to figure on facebook just kind of sitting there on their phone just kind of thumbing through the news speed and they see a video and they kinda go. Oh what's this about. Maybe they'll book market thinking. They'll come back and watch it later. Nobody ever looks at their books based on the book market the watch it later and then they never watch it now. When somebody goes onto youtube they're actually purposeful league going to youtube to kind of sit around and watch videos like the you know the the mode load. Your mindset is in is kind of different on facebook than it is on youtube. Yeah totally makes sense. So what are what are some some other mistakes that you see like new youtubers or maybe even youtubers that have been doing it for a while. What our mistakes that you're seeing a lot of them make that they should avoid <hes> important. One is just to upload the video and think that's it like once you uploaded the video you have to promoted. Would it like it's not over an especially in the first forty eight hours. You need to try to send as much traffic through the videos s possible because this really gives a youtube. The signal on its algorithm that you've video is popular and then youtube keeps on recommending it at lisa's more likely to recommend it so i always try when i launched a video tom do for example alive from year. One thing i did. I used perks to have <hes> people to watch videos as soon as possible for example last time <hes> when uploaded a video i kind of started a bright and there was a free taps for the song that i only gave you the first one thousand subscribers us out the bet. I took down the link and so i'm known to my emails and on my social media sites so i got a lot of us really at the when i launch my video so this is really important and not another people don't do this video in bets it and then been kind of a sad because they don't get enough you so even though it's on youtube try to you keep on pushing it senator email lists of course sometimes even use in the music scene as well. You have these aggregation sites the kind of promote your videos and work with you can contact them and stuff like this so just basically try whatever you can do to get traffic traffic on the video and then you will get kind of we want you got you so don't just rely on on youtube algorithms to send you the viewpoint the traffic you gotta you gotta start yourself a bit yeah and one thing especially when you're starting out you don't have a lot of us subscribers and that's kind of the call out on a kind of a rabbit hole because you have to get out there but it's difficult because you just don't youtube doesn't have a lot of data anti you know if you if you one hundred views. It's really difficult to say like what you're <hes>. <hes> watch time is and what's the eva's good to have a decent amount of h._r. And then at some point you keeps like a picking up and then keeps sending credit your way but especially in the beginning. It's it's super important if you even if you have a really good video and uploaded to channel with like fifty subscribers or whatever it's really hard to get going so you have to push the video in the beginning. It's basically as well what these like for example. If the big brands are putting a viral videos or whatever usually they really nurture these videos. Are they really they seek them. I think that's correct term so they put a lot of at budget behind them. Get the first couple of million views or whatever then and of this multiplier effect takes place but it needs to have a basis like foundation and then it keeps on going but you have to reach the critical mass and that's really important especially especially when you're starting out on you. You said you said they put some budget behind. Are you talking about actually running two beds or advertising from different platforms horns back over to their video. Basically i just talked to <hes>. One of the managing directors of one of the big companies like in germany me who do like some these viral video campaigns and he just thought i didn't. I'm not quite sure how they do because they come in a completely different field of course but it's like some people use just youtube ads but i heard it's like it's it's kind of expensive what can do once pride for example using facebook book ads because <hes> you really get a you re chief us on facebook and then i tried to get the people from facebook watch my video because it was just like a short snippet one of the best teams watch the whole video on youtube so that kind of work as well and you can contact aggregation sites like a sham like a couple couple of years ago when you could post youtube videos on youtube area because that brought so much traffic. I contacted them. I was like hey yeah. I got this new video. I would be like to share with the audience because all these aggregation sites. We're looking forward to content of course and then i gave it to them. They shared it and sometimes uh even they asked it's like a you. Could i think it was fifty bucks or whatever some like one patriot simulate what's called. I love music thing and they offered like they share your a music video or if you're twenty bucks or whatever and this works so well at brought me so many views of its kind of from since you face the change its algorithm it. It's not really working anymore. Unfortunately yeah so have you done some youtube adds to like a jump start it and if when you use youtube beds does youtube does the views that come from youtube ads do those affect the organic search algorithms. Do you know to be honest. I didn't run ads to my videos yet. I just heard people <hes> that that tried youtube as well out. It's really expensive so trump them all turn down <hes> but i haven't used a pay youtube ads for that yet gotcha yeah 'cause i'm kind of curious if like if if i run youtube adds to a video in iraq up let's say one hundred thousand and views because i was doing advertising does youtube see that as good traction on the video or does youtube see that as well they advertise to this video so that doesn't really count as organic views. My guess is that it doesn't matter so you cannot force. At least i guess because it just about the watch i'm like if you like doc <hes> get if you run an ad campaign and you had two hundred thousand views or whatever that people really like video and they keep watching it. I think it doesn't matter. It's like it's it definitely doesn't hurt your ranking whatsoever just because he's at the venice like even those people i liked the video and watching watching the only thing our advice has really tried to run ed's videos way you know a perform well though if you have some data beforehand or hand definitely check their relative audience retention check the watch time and really try to figure out which videos your best performers and then push to them because he at least my strengths is that each debris focuses on some like your best videos and then kind of pushes them in bay kind off <hes>. I like the pulling horse they bring other videos fillet. Get most of the tractions. I would try to identify your most popular. Oh you're winning videos and then double down on them from watching them because that helps you other videos in the long run as well but that might get you better cheap abuse longer watch time when you put a budget on its temple. That's yeah i love that. Strategy is not to be everywhere tried to be the best on every single video upload but like the hone in on it's kind of taken a an idea from these companies like that when he talked to that creates these viral videos i'm thinking of just i mean there's so so many companies that have had youtube viral videos and you see them embedded on their website on their homepage and because i have heard from previous guests that embedding it and then i'm getting the views they're also sends a good signal to youtube and i think google at the same time to potentially give ranked there yeah so do you do any of that as well kind of like that cross stitch in google and facebook videos embedded on my own website and and when i launch videos at for example off the taps i have a call to action below the video and then i put it on my own side so i am bet the youtube video <unk> action like i get the taps now <unk> academy so to have the same effect at least to win as sam traffic for my email lists or social channels and that makes sense. It's like direct into your own site the videos still there so you can get the views but maybe <hes> also re target them or you know kind of anything you want with them. They're cool okay. I wonder if there's any is there anything else on the youtube front that you think would be super valuable to the audience here that we didn't cover yet. I'm some one thing i am make really great. Experiences with is using are leveraging about channels at to get views over there because it basically found out about this kind of spreaded you by accident on my covers satellite strategy and because i some people send me videos and they were like oh these guys stole your video and check out the video and then there was kind of a was a channel from thailand i think and it was like my video stood awake peak and then there was just like the description was the video title wasn't tight and i translated and it meant something like guitar god or something i would never thought outta myself but it went got over six million views on his china and i was like wow and then i got so many fans on my facebook page from <hes> no before that i contacted this guy i i was like yeah. Take on the video like video and what's the hey wait. I get more and more fans from thailand because it goes through the whole channel whilst entire like all the comments entire everything type and i was like you can keep the video link back to my channel and put my eye i <hes> <hes> your l. my website in there and then it's still brings in a lot of talent so i like my music is really big. In asia compared for example in germany. Nobody cares about my music but in asia and brazil it's really picking up in the funny thing in these countries at the people they rip or use small video and uploaded stolen and then i was like okay that works really well. This is really cool because these people's jorma guitar academy and and then i started to actively contacting channels i was like hey i got a really good performing bitty. Yeah you have like some people had like five or ten or twenty thousand yeah. Wouldn't you want to help out my video for several new general because you reach like youtube has a complete own ecosystem per country like for example germany like it always german channels like you don't even go to american or english or what it's like. It's like a closed ecosystem because he knows a youtube knows all there from germany and i recommend and german videos to that and the same was like it just like everything is entire are in different languages and then i kind of noticed a k. weight or in spanish spanish monument is really big. Portuguese like brazil brazilian market and then i was like okay <unk> putting videos on our channels to get to they. Our audience is basically and it's kind of a win win because they get a lot of abuse on my videos because they prefer the principle behind it is like if you have a really good performing foaming <unk> well-performing video will perform well again and again. It's not just one time you upload it on youtube channel but if the guy from russia uploads it and jeff this it will have the same effect so via via reality events announce right so so this is a really powerful way it to get traffic of course it's an all new gentleman laura chen people will want to learn more about you or your content check out your own channels and always excellent delinked beck and this has helped me to get a lot a lot a lot of use. My hacker brain just goes well. I guess you could always go get a v._p._n. Go create a a youtube account in russia. Just clone your own account over and over and over again in every country by switching different i._p. Address using a v._p._n. Absolutely you're probably going on on this. You would need to leverage our rec abuse on all these channels because i'm the beginning. That's the rabbit hole again. You start out with nothing like the most. I think the most difficult thing is to get the first thousand subscribers and then that's reason when you use other channels like that have assisting families like let's say like five ten twenty thousand subscribers and you basically directly introduced your video to their audience. You can have a directly a lot of data appoints and other abuse and then youtube starts to rank your video passer antigen in man. I don't know if you wanna start learning russian the portuguese and making sure i guess you could hire people over there but higher that portion of but that's that's really interesting. I've never heard anybody say but it makes perfect sense and i know i've seen it when i traveled other countries you see kind of like a different youtube logo with spain will have like e._s. I think it says yea like oh wow. This is completely different. It looks the same but i was thinking oh. They're duplicate like video issue but maybe not if if you said you know they're kind of had their own ecosystem so i guess why not i am a list of links for example. My video still way got over fifty million views in general on several channels combined just on my channel. It got fifty million views but i have like a one in russia. I think three million by naral the tide channel a six million than i have the same video on vietnamese channel and of course probably some channels. I don't even know because my video went viral and i don't like just like some people sending the links. When are they discovered and so his wife on i'll be a son that and then i started to contact but it's like i don't exchange a problem you became concepts with your video is the content. Is all music doc or is there speaking as well like i haven't makes like i let my most popular are just my own music like thing guitar stuff as solo mistake but i do have some tutorials as well where i teach this kind of <hes> style and of course the kind of promote my <unk> academy as well and yes yeah so it's kind of a makes. The reason i'm asking is because you know youtube now actually transcribes the videos in the background right so when you upload a video where you're speaking they tried we transcribe it using automation as best as they can and i'm almost wondering if the strategy you just talked about works well because your music as opposed to <hes> speaking like the videos that are probably getting shared a lot and other countries or more music videos versus speaking videos because you can't transcribe the speaking being in the background right like they can't transcribe you speaking so there couldn't duplicate content penalty because there's no there's no speaking for view tube to compare. Does that make sense that makes sense. I'm just quite sure if it's just a bald night the <hes> the patients the translation or if it's like i'm like for example <hes> zam something worse that had just analyzed the audio file who would be the same music and spoken content because it's just like the patterns patterns all the wave the wave of more of the audio that makes sense yeah. I guess they could be checking it that way to the youtube are smart scientists over over there. We can't work with them. That is cool man. No that's fascinating. Thanks for being so open with like everything you do. They're on the youtube what's era. What's your plan with youtube. I know you have all these other projects and we can kind of maybe translate transition more that direction guitar academy. That sounds like it's is that like just kind of ever growing thing with the traffic from youtube mainly it kind of <hes> it is like it's my main passive in comments like this online guitar academy thing. I wouldn't say that it keeps on growing all the time so it stays on the same level ah for three years which is a good level but it just not growing automatically <hes> focus more on using facebook ads. One of my issues is that i like i said i i have a lot of my viewership. As from asia russia and brazil and these markets usually don't buy staffan off and sometimes cannot afford this so i know that most of us students in the ketamine out for example from the u._s. but most of my viewers from different hundreds of animals like okay. I need to get more people on the u._s. From europe on and then i was like using facebook ads for example <unk>. Custom audience is an audience and stuff to reach more these people there that don't reach with my youtube account <hes> yeah that's i could not that'd be an issue. It's kind of a disconnect and then obviously then you have the training in there and ideally they're gonna trainings. Is it in english or german english shia so yeah that would be difficult for some of those folks to buy yes yeah and of course if our like in asia just cannot afford like twenty-something per month yeah. It's a lot i'm curious. Oh of course i'm kind of curious about this sort of building of the course like what. What tools did you use to make the course like. Do you have a member's area where it's locked down. What is what is the whole course. Look like that you built the academy. Basically i wanna started out the first chill. I wouldn't use that right now anymore but i started out with optimize price and optimize member. Remember ed wasn't easy to implement solution in the beginning then i use my whole funnel is basically it's all centered around active campaign so it's kind of jeff if walker launch formula you're going to kind of change this approach or use them seven-day challenges the stuff to get the leads in to kind of give them value and and i opened the academy and then it's basically just a membership. I used the drip fat that a slow that <hes> people like that for example. If you sign up qatar academy right now every week you will get new lessons that i recorded these lessons already so yeah this kind of the membership metal a membership arm several courses in there. I have some guests instructors. Some masterclasses was really nice. Stepping aside ketosis well and it's basically makes a cool content rip fat and <hes> yeah these other platforms project. Yeah i love it because what you teach teaches so evergreen. It's you know we we teach a lot of digital marketing stuff where i might make a video in teach something about facebook ads and then two months later that video oh no longer is relevant because split everything right but when you're in the guitar niche it's like that it's amazing because you can make videos three years ago that teach somebody how to play a song longer how to hordes or whatever and it's going to be just as relevant ten years from now as it is today. Absolutely absolutely you ever thought about. I love it. I've purchased guitar courses that looked like they were recorded and like e._d._s. and like get to learn from them. Yeah you mentioned something that grabbed my interest. You mentioned that you did a seven day challenge to grab some leads. Can you sort of walk us through what that seven. They challenge looks like yeah. It's basically i'm learning page where i say i'm like my focus is modern perkasa thing <music> out so i don't don't teach people how to play guitar from the beginning that focused on a certain niche which is like people who can't but to take there kristie guitar playing to the next level and this seven day challenge deuce introduce people to this kind of playing so for example using the body guitar at the kahan like where you like the base and sned play some cards and each day you've got a <hes> a video like a short lesson obser- obser- short <hes> many win like a quick win and then you get to know me you get to know my son of teaching i tell you a bit of my story and <hes> what i do and what can learn and then i introduced them to my guitar academy once they know me at some lessons from me and then basically basically the rest is done by active campaign and many email sequences. Yes that is so cool. It's such a it's such a lifestyle business and this. This is exactly why you can travel around to bali are live. You know for certain number of months. That's super cool. How about like like. Do you have any support or other. Help like teams are like a person. You hired a kind of handle. Some of the admin stuff kind of funny thing is i'm kind of a i want to say control free but i think as many solo preneurs of it's kind of hard to give up especially if it's like paul like you. It's part of your passionate with mike guitar playing in staff. It's like you want to control everything then i <hes> went on the nomex crews from panama to portugal so cross atlantic and it's kind of like truce ship and the ad like two to three hundred digital nomads on that you it's like a conference on a boat so pretty cool and then <hes> <hes> <hes> this was shortly after i launched my academy and it worked out well but for example sports i did all the emails life payments didn't go through people needed to add some issues whatsoever and then they was like hey we are in the middle of atlantic ocean. You have no wifi. I was like wait. Wait wait no wifi wifi and then i was i was like okay damn and i had the former intern. My first company that launched <hes> contacted chris and i was like a chris needs to help me out. I just give you access this to my g mail. My email account all email support melts in and you just have to manage it. He wasn't guitarist is charged as well and then he basically gave him all my email like a he he started managing all email and since then i never checked back into my original because he's like now my let's say main assistant who manages everything all the custody wineries and only there any issues he cannot do what this email and then i tell him what to do about it. It's like it's so nice because at some point you don't have to do anything at all like you like i remember when timothy i fall workweek and then it was like maximum one hour work week and that has started to focus on new project because it worked so well someone taking care of everything and it's so good if you like give up control of your businesses yeah so i'm i'm. I'm trying to put the puzzle pieces together together in my head and kind of <hes> paint the picture of what you're doing so basically you've got you. You're putting videos on youtube and you're obviously optimizing these youtube videos in the ways that we talked about but then from these youtube videos and you also embed them on your website and from these youtube videos on your website you're the call to action is to go do a seven day challenge the seventy challenge kind of gives them some quick wins results in advance and by the end of the seven day challenge you kinda sell them on getting into your larger. Course your larger course is inside of optimize optimize press optimize member and the course is essentially drip fed out to them once they subscribe and that's that's kind of the business model there show that's more or less like the business wanted around the guitar academy but only like the seven day challenge is just one of my lead magnets for example brought a talk. If you tar bowed guitar secrets dot com which is kind of wet tried the russell brunson free for a free free plus shipping funnel which worked really well like i brought brought in over thirty thousand in the first month selling this book and then i kind of upsell mike guitar academy different. I try different ways to august giving tests of free and the people joining on my list and so <hes> yeah about the seventh at work gotcha and you also have like your yeah <hes>. You're too big accelerator where you help other like musicians get noticed on youtube right. Yes right this my latest business. I started in <hes> late two thousand eighteen this basic name that you've accelerator dot com. It's kind of <hes> teach musicians all the strategies that they they need to grow families blow up on youtube and this as well kind of this more like a a three week program like an online course and <hes> <hes> it works similar from the funnel. I use a company now. I use thrive themes and thrive art right. I started using it because of you. Guys do in and yet so this like this is some n._f._l. Sycophant pain and for the <hes> ran the membership area and this kind of online course where like i use a facebook ads and then several space will add then i guess the three video lessons of free so the people get to know me and <hes> lonesome staff if they like this. I kind of opened the to accelerate. It's kind of a an evergreen well and then they can enroll for a six days after that the program closes again and this works really really well as well and it's totally automated as well kind of like the utara adamy love it yeah i mean you're using pretty much the identical tool stack that we use. We're actually using jiang. Thrive thrive carp for checkout. We're using thrive architect for all of our landing pages. These days we use active campaign to follow up with customers and yes yup. Imperium is what we use to protect the content so it sounds like the exact same marketing. That's awesome ice. It's awesome and just just make sure not to build not too many of these things up because then it sounds real work like you're gonna have to do. I wanna i wanna talk about the nomad life man because i don't think we've had anyone on here. That's like strictly lifestyle business so systemized. I'm sure there's like avenues. You go down in your mind. Maybe you don't but i know i would you. You know we would blessing and curse of too much. Knowledge is like oh. I could take this here. I could scale this this much or yes yes. How does that like. Did you ever run into that or is that all the time lack of focus having so many ideas like starting different project right now. I'm uh started putting on conferences and i worked on a new project as well. It's kind of like having to kind of stop myself because i'm like a way it's kind of shiny objects and rem and wanna like we're gonna <unk> so many a project so <hes> yeah definitely an issue so how do you how do you deal with that. It's just like a constant struggle or giving better like they have some ways to stave yet. The thing is i'm still i'm decided if i like this on not because on the one hand like i have this creative artists guitars side in me which is like like a song brought a song i write this song and when the song is finished i start working on a new stone because it gets boring to keep on playing the same song over and over and it's the same with businesses his lifestyle business because i think like are usually i use like let's say six three to six months to work on a business and then i i always like a wheel you get pinning and then you can go way back. Wheel keeps on spinning so this is still <unk>. Fascinating really lost off the process of starting a business but at some point gets kind of boring for me and then i is interest than i get somebody in that you basically do the operational thing and then i love this process of okay. Let's think about a new system new project new. What's business whatsoever so ever but i think it's kind of on the one hand. It's really satisfying on the other hand. If i would only focus on the return or to caleb business to get more money it would be wiser to yes caleb business that works well like for example from six to seven figures itself like going to the next project but so it's and kind of bias there because for me it's as well like a like a passion and just fun setting up online projects so i'm not sure you're speaking to the choir. I think that's a lot of you know a lot of us. Entrepreneurs like we don't like the maintenance of a project when it gets too monotonous and boring and that's when you get someone new that's why over the years you get entrepreneurs like us who will collect like two hundred domain names because they've got all sorts of projects and ideas and and then none of them ever pan out except for like four to get very good <hes> that's true man so what's what's next on your list in terms of traveling aveling and living abroad and crazy cruises across the oceans of the world. What do you have planned <music> <hes> like the summer going to spend it here in berlin on europe a lot of spain and stuff but usually when it gets older he'll like in october november number. I kind of <hes> <unk> beer and boss december november. I went to brazil for example then volleyed in thailand and bank when a good warm over here i think i actually add on no do unlike pretty spontaneously so when i'm like okay i am kind of forty or the weather sides and then i as jake google maps and checkout flights and then apply some. It's like the cool thing. Is you have these kinds of nomad communities like if i for example fly to chengdu bali. I think i know more people in here in berlin seven. It's so quickly in space. Is you have this super healthy night's lifestyle. It's it's just so easy to live and you can lift like in a really nice villa with your own with everything for a fraction of the cost and so yeah just like what if you went rented couture it costs like three bucks per day and like you have such a great lifestyle over there and <hes> a community so it's it's yet nowadays it's just so how easy and so nice to travel around somewhere else and just <hes> does so when you travel. Are you specifically looking for a nomad community blake. Obviously you have an established base in bali now but if you're traveling anywhere else you're not going alone and going airbnb. It sounds like you're seeking out people there. Yes yes yes like i try to focus on. I'd like at at least checking out like some of the co. Working spaces are the half co working space and there is a great <hes> a website. That's nomad list. I think dot ono calm. I think they can check out for example around the world like the best spots for nomads matt's like in south america in the states in asia in australia whatsoever and then show you the average monthly cost how good the wifi is hell. The people will on the friendly on not l. a. well do they speak english. How yet <unk> addressing <unk> decide on how many any co working spaces are there. You see even nomads who currently there and then. It's so easy to go there too. I dunno to columbia. What's our have iran. Just they're going to co working space as connect with <hes> no no mets over there and yeah just like a really nice relaxed. Oh that's cool yeah. I love that that's a good resource. Link that up in the show notes tail yeah now before we start to wrap up. I'm kind of curious 'cause. We've talked about a lot of different tools. I know you used to use optimize press and optimize member and now you're you're kind of doing more with mom. Barium active campaign and thrive car drive architect <hes> you mentioned bid i._q. As like a great tool to get keywords and things he's like that. Are there any other tools that maybe we haven't talked about yet on this episode that are are pretty killer tools that have really helped you and your business. I'll let me thank you of course number one. I would say active campaign <hes> which is a definitely a powerhouse. What about any other. Maybe like youtube tools sir or is just kind of the main one that you use. There is another one keyword tool i think about. I don't use a bit often so for youtube. I don't use a lot of tools to be honest. It's mainly i._q. And then using tech strategies and promotion strategies for my business that i think it's like a i bet <hes> i will think of many like when you stop this call but right now i just like to ride thrive off like the thrive blackened swedish legal marketing up as a statement barium is basically the jolts we talked about. I think these are the main ones of course spokesman spokesman. <hes> you have to at least i. I don't have any <hes> any tool for that use. That's probably a good thing keeping it's simple man in a no eight. Loom is really good for doing like screen cars because always for example. If i set up a new cars i wanna set instructions to consistent. I usually do with videos. I usually build my own video calls for people i work with so -cation efficient and yes oh it. They don't have to contact me. They at sun questions even if i <hes> i knew people say usually like record videos <hes> and i use an bloomfield <unk> and will <hes> sometimes so as that swell up that slack trello for my match. It's like yeah we love lou. I don't think a day goes by that. We're not doing something with all training video. You know training joining our team and our staff cooling and you know we didn't even mention it before. We wrap up. Give us like a quick. I know this is still. I don't think it's open yet but your newest project what's murder fire fire. It's basically like blinking budget for podcasts <music> and online courses so <hes> we're like <hes> getting the key insights out of podcasts and courses because it's like <hes> base it like we have a lot of really good content out there like as well your podcast and your blog and there are many others as well but sometimes most people like time and of course the on businesses and then it's like we focus on getting really the key inside the really the meat cutting up and so you basically get straight to the point and <hes> yeah podcasts on courses and is in the making right now. It's in the make okay cool. We'll definitely link that up so as we're wrapping up here <hes> i know you mentioned. Tim fares book a lot for work week which makes me go back because i haven't read that thing long time. There's probably stuff. I'm like because that's how we started with ever. What are some other books or or maybe resources. You know like you said here podcast even that you tend to recommend others yeah book. I really like swell as i think it's called the y. You're you're cafe st. Lumberton the why i hear cafe cafe wrong really it's almost like the fun with a new change might timmy johnson losing battery out there like the fundamentals like. Why are you here in this live. What what is your purpose. What are you doing with your life. Isn't all about money getting more or you said more and so. I think it's a really shot by the really it can be really life. Changing like my brother changed his life completely like it was really good as well and then i really the one is a re read recently atomic habits. That's awesome yeah because the what habits really find who we are what we doing doing in the morning but i'll bet like just thinking about your bad habits for example just watching too much t._v. or whatever and how to basically overcome them or uh even replace them with better habits. I think this is like or not of people <hes> for me especially as well because i am. I have a lot of bad habits sirocco so this is a really good. I think recently which kind of blew me away as well of course of some experiences in bali and all that stuff it's by dr joe dispenser it becoming supernatural more about field all this jealousy and <hes> <hes> well but it's super interesting like kind of let's say the might be more and all this power. You have two thoughts have hot for here errands and all that stuff so it's not like business boat but it's more like the old that these are the books. I have in mind right now that i really interesting. That's that's piqued. My interest the becoming supernatural because that's a yeah gioja spent a doctor yet. He's got some amazing things and and yet it's not business but dear. God like this is youtube videos to you could watch somebody else. You'd be like okay. You can unlock all different parts of your brain. Cooman with bali really quick like what was the biggest. What's like a must go place. If someone wants to travel the bali like is there a specific salat yet definitely like one definitely shangou like john lewis <unk> the nomad hot spot and one of the it's like is it a cafe or a restaurant. It's called <unk> model. I think and i just away to switch we can hear you. We'll place them away and they yeah good. We'll have to we'll take a clip from your guitar out and then we'll just like gaps here <unk> a searching do what you said right in a cafe milligan motto was a place i really liked or santa fe co working space dough. Joe is like whether the let's say is seen as the famous co working space their way can connect with a lot of people and if you're more into spiritual staff go to vote <hes> so these other i would say like must not go to school on eighty shake in chengdu best wiegand stop if you're injured lights awesome awesome busier so much as so many nice restaurants over there so perfect man thank you. That's my like trip list. Testing one day did never selfishly of course thank you. I do okay so i know there's a lot of places to take people but where should folks go explore explorer. Go down the rabbit hole all about you. Oh yeah definitely if you're into guitar playing check out my channel just for my name. I think it's really the <hes> weird like <unk>. A my name is like to be as russia rauscher. You find stuff if you if you go to to be us tobias guitar dot com if you wanna learn about a youtube goto tube accelerator the coma fan base academy. I'm these other other. It's mainly focused on its bill foam. About of course anyone in use strategies and <hes> <unk> is smarter fire dot com. I think you're gonna linked to this one end. Oh if you're yeah i recently we launched the digital lifestyle conference where we kind enough interview people we interview with joe over there as well for her and going to launch this in september the second condition i think yeah so if you're interested check out the digital lifestyle on friends lisa think the most important channels yeah yeah. We'll make sure to link everything up in your youtube videos so no one has to worry about this spilling my name yeah well. Thank you very much for joining us today and your time and somewhere in every by thanks everybody for listening to this episode of the hustle and flow chart podcast for taking the time to listen. We wanna give you something a little bit special every single episode episode that we do. We actually have somebody on our team. Take notes we basically have in cliff's notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics laid out all of the the resources that they laid out all the good stuff from this episode. We actually having nice simple notes version. You can find on our website. Go to evergreen profits dot dot com find this episode that you just listen to email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening. Doke it wiki wiki.

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Wes Wilcox on Houston Rockets, Boston Celtics, Anthony Davis, LeBron James, and the Lottery

The Full 48

1:12:37 hr | 1 year ago

Wes Wilcox on Houston Rockets, Boston Celtics, Anthony Davis, LeBron James, and the Lottery

"Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Xeni offers thousands of affordable. Eyewear styles starting at just six ninety five. No ridiculous markups. No hassles. Just quality affordable. I wear delivered right to you visits. Any today at any dot com slash p r. AM still still a mess with you folks when a mess with the pacing what up the ball, forty eight Howard Beck senior NBA writer for Bleacher report, keep everybody on their toes. It is lottery week conference finals week. We are down to the final four. But before we say our dues to the teams that are out of the playoffs. I thought it'd be fun to bring on our old friend Wes Wilcox. Former hawks GM longtime front office guy spent time with the Cavaliers as well before Atlanta to break down some of the teams that are out who's facing a crisis at the moment. Who's got the biggest consequences for losing when they did especially focused on the Celtics and rockets the Sixers the teams that all just got knocked out in the second round who all certainly had conference finals if not finals aspirations and touch on a few of the other teams as well. But I feel like those are the teams that go into this off season just have some big decisions to make. Some huge free agency decisions that Ravi see not just in their hands. But always consequences for India teams when they're falling short and west was great on all of that before we get to the interview, of course, just one awake. Make my weekly plug weekly plea-, please subscribe. If you haven't already you can find us on apple podcast on Stitcher on Spotify on a bunch of other podcasts platforms, and if you were on apple podcasts, please give us a rating and a review helps out the show a lot. And I'm reading those reviews. So if you have questions complaints criticisms anything hit me there hit me on Twitter at Howard Beck. And with that. Here's my interview with Wes Wilcox now. Joined once again by friend of the pod, he's a repeat appear on the pod. He needs a badge a button a bumper sticker something because he's been so good to the. Program. Former hawks GM Wes Wilcox west welcome back. Thank you. I still all you some kind of full forty eight swag as soon as we invent some. Thanks for having me. It's good to be back. Appreciate it. So I wanted to talk to you about mostly where we are in this postseason and the teams that we are pouring went out for because they're gone, and they have things to deal with you as a as a somebody with a letter front office experience, I want to plug into that that GM brain of yours. But before we get to that breaking news this morning before I came in to record the Cleveland Cavaliers have a new coach, and you're pretty familiar with Mr. beeline. Whoa. What's your impression of the higher because it kind of came out of the blue? Yeah. No, definitely came out of the blue another. Whoa. Damn this morning wheel. We'll up to but I'm a huge John beeline fan is a basketball coach, you know, fascinating that he's never been assistant coach at any level and had success at every level. Certainly, I think it's unexpected. Because you think it's a young calves team, you know, with the exception of Kevin love, but a young calves team that you would think would go the developmental coach path like Br. Brown or Kenny Atkinson, but you peel back, and you think about the development of be line with his players at specific most recently, of course, Michigan the success. They've had he'll he'll garner immediately immediate respect, you know. I would like go into his basketball practices is like going to basketball church. I mean, he just incredible teacher incredible coach. And so, you know, I it certainly out of the blue. But when you start to peel it all back, it makes a lot of sense basketball church. How there's like a reverence, you know, you just felt like you're in an environment. That was very calm highly experienced. He was so good at it. You almost felt like there was some higher power. And he he truly were the my favorite practices, and you know, one of the most unique things about his coaching style is his terminology. He doesn't he doesn't call a backpack a backpack or middle pick. Enroll the middle pick and roll. He's got like these crazy names like frog and banana, and he lets his players like name all the actions. And I it's one of the more interesting things to see and watch. And when we would actually interview the Michigan players in the draft process. We'd always laugh about what they would call their players or what they would call their actions. So he's just he's just got a great way about him. I'm a huge huge beeline fan and without question. My favorite my favorite practices to watch win on the college scouting trail. So the one thing I I wonder about the west is what this says about their direction. I mean, can you try to mind read for minute? What Koby Altman is thinking here or maybe ten Gilbert is thinking what the organization's thinking. They've got a team that is still kind of packed with a lot of like mid career veterans, and while the rest of us think like, oh, well, they're going to go. They're gonna go young. It's rebuilding. They didn't do that in the first year without LeBron hard to know what they're going to do next. They've got Colin Sexton and another high pick coming pending tomorrow night's lottery and then the draft, but as of right now, this doesn't feel like necessarily young rebuilding team that you get like college coach who's great a great teacher. Like does this telegraph that they're going to tear down and go full on rebuild with young players? Is that a fair read? No. I mean, we go back to the beating of this season. You know, they started the year by saying that they were going to compete, and then quickly realized that it wasn't gonna work and Coby was smart for making the adjustments. He made. And of course, they had to deal with you know, the. Injured. Kevin love they've been very I think open about the fact that they expect to compete or starting to compete again this year, and and I also like what they've done with their books. They're one of the teams that has said we will take money into this coming season. This was last year last trade deadline together together, assets and draft picks. And so they're probably another tough year of this. But that gives them a year to kind of get grounded under coach beeline, and then look to twenty twenty and twenty twenty one to to be competitive again. It'll be interesting, you know, obviously, the feeling about college coaches making the leap to the NBA. I think has evolved over the last several years with the success of Brad Stevens, especially in certainly Billy Donovan's done done a more than fine job in Oklahoma despite some of their disappointments. So yeah, I feel like it makes us of a ripple now than it. Once did when people really wondered if if guys could make that leap thinking has changed. It can be a little frustrating, especially if you're in our. Are running late divined yourself at a railway crossing waiting for a train. And if the signals are going, and the trains, not even there yet, you can feel a bit tempted to try and sneak across the tracks. While don't ever trains are often going a lot faster than you, expect them to be and they can't stop even if the engineer hits the brakes right away. It can take a train over a mile to stop by that time. What used to be your car is just a crush hunk of metal? And what used to be you? Well, better not to think about that. The point is you can't know how quickly the train will arrive the train can't stop, even if it sees you. The result is disaster. If the signals are on the train is on its way, and you just need to remember one thing stop trains can't it can be a little frustrating, especially if you're in a hurry are running late divined yourself at a railway crossing waiting for a train. And if the signals are going, and the trains, not even there yet, you can feel a bit tempted to try and sneak across the tracks. Well, don't ever trains are often going a lot faster than you expect them to be and they can't stop even if the engineer hits the brakes, right? Away. It can take a train over a mile to stop by that time. What used to be your car is just a crush hunk of metal? And what used to be you? Well, better not to think about that. The point is you can't know how quickly the train will arrive the train can stop even if it sees you. The result is disaster. If the signals are on the train is on its way, and you just need to remember one thing. Stop trains can't tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Zanny optical offer, a huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Xeni dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus is any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices visits. Any today at Xeni dot com slash PR that Z E N N, I dot com slash. Rush biard. Lottery week do all the teams that didn't make the playoffs. Their fate going with the lottery balls Tuesday night. We have a bunch of teams twelve teams now out of the playoffs. And of course in the NBA playoffs. Do you never just lose? There are consequences depending on the team. And when you went out, and so I wanna talk about a few of those with you. And listen, I ruled out certain teams that I think not as interesting the consequences for them or the stakes weren't as high. So I'm going to push them to the site. Denver nuggets. Incredible breakthrough season weren't even in the playoffs last year. Yes, they're out a little bit early. But no consequences for the Denver Nuggets. They're young they're growing just happy to be here. Brooklyn nets LA clippers great seasons free agency looms for them. But it's all just gravy for them the way they got into the playoffs, despite their circumstances Orlando, Indiana, these are teams that are just kind of moving forward. And if you feel like are kinda stuck in the mud Utah, Detroit San Antonio there. Rauscher's are pretty well set. Set. I don't think they're any major consequences or massive decisions looming. But then there there are four teams west that to me the playoffs. And losing when they did losing it all in a couple of cases, I think have have great applications for their future. And that's Boston Houston, Oklahoma City and Philly. These are all teams that there are consequences for losing when they did maybe even crisis in a couple of cases and major free agency decisions. So be before before we get to my hyperbolic framing of crisis teams consequences. Is there anybody that I limited from this discussion that you actually think is really interesting heading into the off season you frame it. Well, the the clippers in Brooklyn are going to be fascinating this off season as as we've all kind of talked about I think we've talked about together on this podcast Denver as a great future. You know, their path is pretty clear, Indiana as well. Orlando's one of the team that's in one of the more difficult. Physicians just because they're kind of stuck there in the middle. And it's it's hard to imagine. How they get a lot better than what they currently are. And then yeah. The next group Utah Detroit, sending Tonio Utah in San Antonio are are in good positions going forward. So San Antonio has some decisions to make. But they've just continued to show that they're great organization Detroit is a little bit like Orlando in that their future is really complicated. You know, it's it's hard because the a team like that is locked in similar to Orlando. And you say you wanna make the playoffs wanna make the playoffs. You get there. You lose four zero or you lose four one. And you're like, okay. What's our future looked like? And you start looking a year or two ahead. So I think those teams you could have interesting conversations with, but in general, I think you framed it. Well, with the exception of crisis up top crisis may be opportunity for a lot of these teams. And a lot of these teams, we we, you know, we we kinda define them as crisis because they had great expectation which typically that expectation is a result of really good. Basketball management a great team building. And that's just you know, that's just part of being in the NBA. So I threw four teams in my my crisis pool only because I think of partially because of free agency decisions partially because of expectations and it Oklahoma city's case, let's let's hit them first. And then we'll we'll hit the rest because I think the thunder, maybe a shorter discussion. But the reason is through the thunder in there, and they're the only first round in out team that I threw in there. It's because of this was they have to top whatever top ten top fifteen wherever you wanna put Russ and Paul George, and they are absolutely maxed out in terms of payroll and attacks team and feel like they are stuck and this now three straight first round exits. And you know, while these other teams that we're going to discuss have some flexibility or some cap room or some think some runway I just I the thunder to me you're not supposed to be a first round and our team when you have. Two top ten to top fifteen players. So you looking at the thunder's books looking at who they have is there any way to really move the needle to push that team forward. So it you against the well three straight playoff exits and a huge payroll as a repeater tax payer, and I think next year with nine players, and including their first they got one hundred and forty seven million dollars committed on one hundred and thirty two million dollars projected cap which would be like a forty forty four forty five million dollar tax Bill on those ten players for next season. So so when you start looking at okay, so how do we what are the options to improve one is to just kind of keep it together. Right. Maybe Wade out changes potentially and Golden State, maybe Wade out another year of Chris Paul. And so, but then you have the emerging teams like Portland in Denver that are coming up from behind you. So there's an argument to just. Together and continue to build as they have. Then there's you know, there's the second path would be okay. How do we shake up the roster without touching our core? You know, our absolute two top ten players, which would be the most likely candidate would be Dennis shooter. He's starting level backup point guard for them. And you know, the that would have value in a in a unique point guard market the summer with a lot of teams needing starting starting level point guards. And then there's a little payroll flexibility potentially to be had and trying to find a way to move Patrick Patterson's player option that he's likely or maybe already has opted into. Okay. So opted into so that's your your second path is like Schreuder plus payroll flexibility, and then the third bath would be okay. You know, do we consider a major shakeup in trading, Paul, George or Russell Westbrook. I I don't think that would be the you know, what we've seen from San Prestia, historically, especially when you pull back, you know, this year, they belt dealt with some injuries with the shoulder for Paul, George, and you know, and Andre Roberson 's kinda knee get him back. And there was a stretch there after the all star break where where this team was shooting the ball. Great and was fantastic. And we all know when they don't shoot a great. They're not very good. So you would think that they would prioritize adding some shooting this off season and looking at those three pass, my gut is they just try to keep it together. Maybe do a little tinkering on the payroll to relieve some payroll pressure as shooting get healthy and bring it back for another run. And see if you know, see what happens. With the other contending teams this offseason. Yeah. I suspect. That's probably what will happen only because it's the it's just the most viable pass everything else. Feels either really tough or really extreme it seems like the right move. And maybe you know, I we discussed this on the pod a few weeks back. But I mean, just maybe Westbrook evolves. Maybe he's at a point in his career where he kind of recalibrate s-, maybe that helps and maybe just he and Paul George being healthy is enough. But I do feel like with as tough as the west remains and teams as you've noted some younger teams that are already getting stronger. I just wonder you know, if you're ever going to get past the first round, do you have enough there isn't enough just to sit tight at a couple of shooters. And then give it another shot. I just I don't know. I that's I feel like the question for them. All right. So onto the three teams that we just saw knocked out in the conference finals among Boston, Houston and Philly who fascinates you. The most fascinating for different reasons. Maybe the the least fascinating of them is Houston because you start looking at what their options are going into next year. You know, they have their starting five under contract. It's about you know, it's a round one hundred and fifteen million dollars for those five players in Chris Paul Hart, and Eric Gordon PJ Tucker, and then Clint cappella, and you know, they got some some big decisions to make and how they how they add to this team, you know, and how expensive they are going to get. But but Houston's probably the one that that you say man that team's going to be really good again. They just got to find a way to fill on their bench create more depth trying to get a little bit of help for some of their best players, and you know, with the big caveat being like, what's Chris Paul in the look like next year a year older trying to get through another season. So Houston still has some decisions to make a bunch of decisions and make this off season. But there are more and his group is they've done it every year and. So they'll do it again. And to have your starting group sent set going into the off season. You know, that gives you a lot of confidence that you're going to be really good once again, I can see that west. I can see that you know. And it's you know, outside of Chris Paul. It's still a group that has mileage left on it. Right. Like, you're not worried about like this team's going to fall off a cliff. But I do think you have to worry a little bit about whether Chris pulse. Gonna fall out for cliff. He just turned thirty four he's making thirty eight point five million next season. And then forty one after that and forty four million just staggering to read forty four point two million and twenty twenty one twenty two at age thirty six oh my God. So they just they don't have flexibility. Chris Paul is showing some erosion and granted he's never been a big, you know, leaper he's not a guy who relies on quickness an explosion at this stage of his career. I feel like he can he his game can age. Well, but he also ends up playing fewer minutes. He you know, every year he's lost for a month. Or so to a hamstring. I can't imagine and Tillman for Tita. Their new owners still newish owner was very vocal very passionate after the game telling reporters that basically this is unacceptable. We're not we're not we're not settling for this again. And. I don't I don't know what he meant by that. I don't think Darryl more your mic dantonio getting fired. I don't I don't think there's going to be some interest shakeup there. But I I don't know where they go from here. I mean, listen you, and I both know Daryl's aggressive as they come. And he's very creative too. Is there something else they can do here? Do they need to do something else? Or do they sit back and say, you know, what we'll we'll let we'll just sit back and wait for Kevin Durant to go play for the Knicks. If that happens, and we're back in business, the second the warriors aren't the words anymore. We're goods ago is that is that a good enough offseason plan. I don't know if it's a good enough off season plan. But it certainly is something that everybody who is not Golden State is hoping happens. Of course, the problem being just lost to the non Kevin Durant. Golden State Warriors and game seven or I'm sorry game. Yeah. Game six at home at home. So, you know, this is just this. This is the complexity of the situation. You end up with, you know, seven almost eighty million dollars wrapped up into players. And there's no doubt Chris Paul is aging, and that you know, we saw that he wasn't quite what he was this season versus last off season. And so yeah, no fair questions. I don't think there's great answers to it. You know, you're looking at okay, great. We can use the taxpayer mid level exception. We're gonna find value on you know, on minimums like they always have they're gonna use the G league as well. As anybody else has they'll they'll probably find a way to extend their Gordon, and maybe even PJ talker. So they're going to be locked in. But, but this is kind of team that they're going to be, you know, the one player that you say, okay, maybe they could trade Clint Capella because they need more kind of perimeter shooting from their front line. But Capella is just such a unique piece. He fits perfectly with James harden in in that pick and roll and Chris Paul and that pick and roll. But I don't know that a lot of teams would want to play that way or or or have a player like Capella because he's kind of the older throwback. You know, rolling big men that we saw like with Orlando Dwight and even Tyson Chandler way back there for a while ago. So I I don't think that there's a there's a there's a great path to really shake this team up and make make a massive move or a massive improvement this off season, it's going to be around the edges, and that's just what happens when you when you end up paying these stories to these players at these ages. So the dumb exercise that we in the media often go through and fans to at times of the year. Like, this is always as soon as team with expectations while short. We're like blow it up gotta start over or deal for, you know, keep James harden and get rid of everybody else. You know, whatever we do this. Right. It's I mean, and it's the it's the fun way to go. Right. Go to the extremes. Like what what could you re imagine this team as? And of course, easier said than done in a salary cap luxury tax world of the NBA everything is more difficult than that. Even if you wanted to do it. But there's also, you know, this this counterpoint, of course, once you take the emotion out of it, and the the overreactions out of it, which is that keeping a team together and having some continuity, and just consistency. Ultimately can pay off. Right. We're seeing this right now right before arise with the Portland trailblazers for the last. I don't know how many years running it's been they're just not good enough Dame Lillard and G C J McCollum are just good enough to make them a really interesting fun team that can't get anywhere in the playoffs. And lo and behold here they are in the conference finals without a guy who at various times with either their second or third best player and use of Norwich. And even if they lose to the warriors, which everybody, I'm sure expects this is progress, and so to just apply this back to the to the rockets for the moment. I don't know that they could strip it down and. Remake it around. James harden, even if they wanted to they're certainly not trading James harden. That's preposterous. They can't trade Chris Paul because of the contract. So I don't even know where they would do it anyway, but when you're in a front office, and you've got a team that feels like it's sometimes, you know, you're not sure if you've already hit your ceiling. You know, how serious are those discussions about an how difficult is it philosophic visit team to say, you know, what we got. We got to just start all over again. We'll Houston's not going to start all over again. And you talk about the, you know, the the I don't even know what your phrasing was earlier. But our friends in the media, you know, I if Portland doesn't win yesterday, we're probably having the same conversation about Portland, they lost my second round. They're not good enough start over again. And that's just not the way the real world works inside, you know, a front office. You gotta plug away. You built your team this this Houston team is fantastic. I mean, they've been managed incredib-. Well, you know, getting Austin rivers and Kenneth in the buyout market this off season where a couple of fantastic moves, you know, going back to two last year when they had Ryan Anderson they turned him into Brandon Knight. And then move Brandon Knight to Cleveland, you know, in the large trade bring Beckham on Shepard who Shumpert who helped him a little bit and get some, you know, reduces payroll. They make a couple of moves together attacks like I that's just that's just what you have to do. So short of you know, you're not gonna trade. Chris paul. You're certainly not gonna trade James harden air Gordon's on one of the best value contracts in the NBA PJ Tucker's a player that everybody in the league would want, but probably no one more than Houston. I just think that we're we're sitting here saying, look, it's it's been a tough run. They haven't been as successful as we've all hoped or they certainly have hoped in the postseason. You know, we're going to do we're gonna we're going to bring it back. Again. We're going to retool. We're going to add depth. We're gonna find another player in free agency in value at the back end of the roster, and we're gonna we're gonna go out of the game next year. And you know, hope and pray that Kevin Durant goes east Tyree doesn't come west and Denver and Portland. Their young players don't continue to improve. I mean, that's just the reality of it. So if you're the rockets, you're still feeling pretty comfortable that James harden at age was he thirty now that this group built around him with whatever's. Left of Chris poll, you've still got a chance to win championships. Because you when you have James harden. This is the thing, you know, this is this is a guy who's top to MVP candidate. How many years running now with with one MVP to as to his claim and potentially the second one this year? Although I think you on this is probably going to get it. He's twenty nine turning thirty in August. And I think probably plenty of great years left. But you do feel that urgency when you have a player of that caliber on your roster. Right. And is this team short of the the warriors imploding, which I mean, I guess they will eventually, but do the rockets actually have championship roster. I guess is the question. I don't look at the Houston roster and think that it's a championship roster. When you're looking at you know, what the Stoorikhel champions have been, you know, with with typically three great players. But when you look at what Milwaukee has done with you on this year and a bunch of other really good complementary players. You know, you could see a path that Houston. You could win a championship. But their path to get to that points going to have to change in order for that to likely become a reality. And that's just you know, the people that they'll have to play through. So and this is where you know, sometimes we we'll talk about championships and wanted to win championships. That's you know, that's certainly important. And it's something that we understand that fans. Are you know, it's why we grew up fans right to win that championship. But there is a reality. You know, in inside a lot of these teams that you know, championship isn't the definition of success. And you just gotta plug away at being the best version of the team, you can be and it's not sexy. It's not like exciting. But it's reality. And I think that that's something that we don't we don't want to knowledge with. We don't want acknowledge that. It's okay, we're we're in such a rings with multiple Z's at the end of rings culture that it's now become somehow unacceptable to talk about a team as having anything. Less than championship aspirations. And yet I feel like for for certain markets and certain teams, it's hey, look, we're, you know, we're gonna just keep plugging away. And if if we're fortunate if to break through great, if not there's the entertainment product part of this, which is put out a great team a team that's easy to for fans to get behind that they're excited about that are fun to watch. And you know, they'll they'll get as far as they get and nobody can talk about that outwardly. You always have to say championship. You always say, oh, of course, we were before. But I feel like the reality is as a business and entertainment matter, that's the undiscussed part of the NBA that for a lot of teams in a lot of markets and certain ownership groups and everything else they get the value system isn't the same across the board. And also, they look you, and I both know there's a handful of teams that really have a chance every year. And if you don't have one of the top three or four five players in the league, you're probably not even in that conversation which rules out a lot of teams and it hard to. To take a step back and say, okay. What what are we in as a period of time for the franchise? You know, the Houston Rockets they've this looks like it's one two three four five six I can't count seven consecutive playoff appearances to conference finals appearances during that stretch a couple a number of semi final, you know, Western Conference appearances. Like, this is a great run of basketball as a Houston Rockets fan, and sometimes it's hard to appreciate just how hard that is to be that competitive in that good for for a long duration, even though you may not get over the hump and get to the finals or when a championship. But the last seven years has been a great time for rockets fans, though, they're you know, they're going to have another shot at it next year. Conceivably we could be talking at this time, and they could be in you know, in the conference finals or headed to the the NBA finals. But but this has been a great run that's been. Been disappointing deep in the playoffs for them. But they're gonna have another shot at it next year yet, it's one of the other things just to tie in this particular part of the conversation. I think we sell short the ability to have sustained excellence just giving yourself a chance every year, and you know, the the marker in this league if you're a fifty plus win team, your your good, very, very good. They've hit sixty once the last season when they hit sixty five wins but going back to twenty thirteen fourteen they go fifty four wins fifty six the weird year where they went forty one forty one before I think that was the Dwight the last white Howard year and then fifty five sixty five fifty three. So, you know, this is a team that has that's sustained excellence to your point of, you know, all these appearances in the semifinals and making a conference to conference finals appearances they have been in it. They have given their fans something to truly believe in and again you and I both know takes a little luck to breakthrough as well. I'm the is yo- Messina. And I'm joke VIN soon. We are the producers behind the H L N television documentary series unmasking killer. 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And I it's just fascinating because Elton brand who is, you know, a friend, and we have them for number of years and Atlanta, he was just an unbelievable locker room leader in mentor for our group and was absolutely celebrated in Jimmy Butler and Tobias Harris trades and even like the small move of James NS for a second round pick at the deadline. And now you wake up to Twitter, and you know, the the the media sphere of the Philadelphia seventy Sixers. And it's like all brands fault and never should have made the Tobias Harris trade he didn't help enough. It's it's just fascinating. How quickly these things turn on a shot? That was just you know, he's gonna go down MBA history with the shot that quite hit last night. And who knows what happens if shot doesn't go in. And they go to the you know, they go to overtime. So this certainly disappointing loss for Philadelphia. But still, and we can talk through those a lot of things going on with this Philly team. But it's just fascinating. How thin the line is between not just a win a loss. But the perception of how you know fans media view a team will. Yes. Because it ended the way it did. Right. Like if you've got to a game for just getting to the game seven at all. And you're you're that close to the conference finals means you were good enough to be there. And you know, you know, there's a thousand things any given game that that. Turn given way that when you lose the buzzer. And yeah, it took four ounces of Leonard shot to go through the net. And if they go into overtime. Yeah. Maybe the Sixers are going to the conference finals, maybe they pull it out. And it's a different discussion. And do we all of a sudden look at their their season differently? If they lost in the conference finals instead of the of the semifinals. I mean, I don't know that that should make a difference. And this is you know, only Josh Harris, the the the principal owner of the Sixers can can decide that but for Elton brand for that front office. They did make two very bold. And I think me and mostly celebrated moves to get Butler Tobias Harris, but they gave up a lot. So as they go into the season. Let me ask you this way. I just from a competitive standpoint, just knowing what you have they starting five that J J redick's, a free agent to a starting five that to me looked as talented as any in the league is your first impulse to say as the GM of the Sixers money aside. I want. This group back. Did you did you see enough that you say I like this group they may have fallen short this time, but give them a full season together in a training camp together. This is a team that can go to the finals they've been very clear about and very open about that is their plan in you know, in conversations that they've had with people around the league as well as with the media. So certainly, yes, I believe that that their plan is gonna is going to be to retain their current group. What's fascinating about this? You know, they're starting group of Ben JJ Jimmy Tobias Joel they only played twenty one games together. And so, you know, you were talking about the value of continuity earlier in Portland, and that Philadelphia hasn't had that opportunity at and so certainly the it's not perfect. You know, JJ's thirty four going to be thirty five years old hit some point he's going to slow down. But he still has a number. Of of good years left in him. We know that skill ages gracefully. We've seen that in guys like how Korver who who have just continued to defy age and Ray Allen with just incredible play and great shooting later in their careers. But this team is I mean this starting five is only played twenty one games together. And I was looking at it this morning and the ten regular season games where they were eight and two that the group had a net rating of plus thirteen and two hundred ninety three minutes and eleven playoff games a six and five record. I think that's right. They had like a twenty four point nine net rating and hundred seventy three minutes. So you know, they didn't they didn't get it done against Toronto. But this team is this are ever specifically this starting five if you bring back you give them some time, you know, there's no question that this can be a very good team for a long time probably fairly heavy costs. Have you done the math on? So what what are they looking at if Tobias us and Jimmy Butler, both resigned to the max? So if you were to resign Jimmy Butler and Tobias to this max, they're both at thirty two point seven million dollars. Let's just say you keep Mike Scott for, you know, five million bucks and you pay James NS. The max you can pay him on the non bird, which it might be hard to keep them at one point nine. And I I would even say like throw in you know, a small. Call exception, call it, the taxpayer mid level exception or so you couple minimums, you know, next season with Joel and Benzai your Smith Jonah Bolden. You know, you're looking at one hundred thirty five million dollars on one hundred thirty two million dollar tax. So next year the payroll is manageable. It's the following year where you get the twenty twenty twenty twenty one where you add in the twenty nine million dollar twenty five percent max for Ben Simmons that you know, you end up with you know, roughly a hundred and thirty two million dollars for just four players. And I'm sorry. Five players, you know, keep in Zaire on this on Zaire Smith on the books with max contracts for Joel Ben Simmons, Jimmy Butler Tobias Harris, you know, you're you're right around one hundred hundred and thirty million bucks. So. It gets really expensive in twenty twenty twenty twenty one. But next year, you know, you're going to be manageable. And and that I number where I say one hundred and thirty five million for for next season. You know, I I include JJ Radic. Let's just say we ballpark at about twelve million dollars, which is you know, about what he made this year. So so their payrolls manageable for a year. It's really when is been Ben Simmons hits the books. That's when it gets, you know, payroll that will be very very high wouldn't the remarkable things about this is that the discussion a few months ago was and this was the buzz around the league, there's buyer's remorse in Philly there. They they they're feeling like they shouldn't have acquired Jimmy Butler. Not just what they gave up in terms of players, but just Jimmy being Jimmy just being a a handful. And the that talk has completely died down the last couple of months like he's been I feel like exactly what they needed a guy who can create especially in crunch time. Who will hit big shots who's never afraid of the moment. And who you know, Ben Simmons can't do it. Because he doesn't have a jump shot 'em bead needs somebody to get him the ball. And you know, while he has range. That's that's not his his strength is strength is still inside Jimmy can do pretty much anything from anywhere. And so I feel like the downside or the perceived downside of Jimmy Butler has gone away. I now feel like it's almost automatic like as long as he wants to be there. And I've no reason to think that he doesn't I would be stunned if they let him walk. Yeah. I mean, he he for the most part been great in the playoffs, you know, last night's hard. Could he twists the ankle down the stretch Philly really didn't execute the way they wanted to execute clearly down the stretch. But he has that. Unbelievable. Push in huge layup, you know, with under a minute play to tie, it, you know, and going back to this this cost, you know, discussion about what you pay to get, you know, some of these players now, certainly. With Jimmy Butler Tobias Harris both potentially being free agents. There's a lot of risk in in making a trade for a guy. That's you know, on what could be or is an expiring contract. However like Jimmy Butler for Dario saw Dario Saric and Robert Covington who are two good players that was a fantastic cost trade and bet that that Elton brand in Philly made. And then even when you go to Tobias Harris Landry Shamet spin was awesome for the clippers in the playoffs and the other regular season. You know, a great pick by by the seventy Sixers he sham it looks like he probably could have gone in some somewhere there in the back half of the lottery, you give up your own I in twenty twenty you give up the the big one is the Miami. I in twenty twenty one you have no idea what that's going to be that could increase in value. If Miami struggles it could decrease in value. If Miami finds a way to continue to get better. And I personally like San Antonio would never bet against the Miami Heat. 'cause. Just historically have shown a way to contend. So it's hard to the value. What that pick might be. And they got Mike Scott with Tobias who's Mike Scott is a not only just a great person. But a great fit and a player that you know, will likely be retained in Philly. So I don't think that the cost was that extreme for Tobias either. And then you know, we made mention of the small, but really impactful NS trade which was just a second round pick. You know, there's a couple of other second round picks thrown around in these transactions but on net getting Jimmy Butler getting Tobias Harris, adding Mike Scott, adding James Ennis. These were very good moves and not overly expensive. You know, understanding that these picks are hard value. So the the team lost in the playoffs in game seven they you know, down the Jimmy was terrific in the postseason. So yeah, I think it's a no brainer. You pay Jimmy what Jimmy wants Ben Simmons down? You know, how do you improve? He's gotta find a way to improve the shooter that that's a critical area of growth and development for them. Joel is an interesting one because you know, we all know his his like on off plus minus was just remarkable this off season. But it looked like down the stretch he really struggled with conditioning, and it's been talked about. I mean, we know he's battling the knee and some other and some other health stuff but getting Joel healthy and in fantastic condition. Elite condition is going to be really important for for their for their for their future. And yeah, then they just got to retain their depth and guys like Mike, Scott, James NS, and they gotta develop their young players maybe Zaire Smith, maybe twenty twenty nineteen first. The future for this. Team is bright though. It's disappointing in the short term and they have big financial decisions to make this off season. But they're in a great market. Their owners have have been very vocal about their willingness to spend Elton has said that publicly multiple times, and you don't say that stuff publicly. If you don't mean it because all of a sudden, you know, you run into a credibility issue across the NBA when you got teams like the clippers and bomber going out there who are spent on the amounts of money that they are even Oklahoma City spending what they're spending you you have to be able to you have to be willing to spend to contend or sustain your teams. And that's just that's just the reality of it. I wonder about this part of it, which is that Tobias Harris, the he was he was the last move that they made of all the the big moves, and he was playing at a kind of an all-star ish level with the clippers. I mean all star though, he was he was worth considering that he was in that discussion. He was putting up those. Of numbers. You know, a little underwhelming production-wise with Philly, but understandable, given he's playing next to and that was probably always going to be the case. And he's a guy who seems to be more of a low maintenance personality where you don't have to worry about that. But I wonder give them what they gave up including a couple of first rounders three if you count Landry Shamet himself. I both sides of it do the Sixers feel like the he's worth the investment of a m- probably a MAC salary for a guy who at least in context with your team with your with the seventy Sixers is not going to produce it amac's level he might somewhere else. But that's not what you need necessarily for him on your on your team with your the Sixers because of who is playing next to and for his part. Maybe he he wants a bigger role. Again. Maybe you know, I mean, it's it's hard to say again Tobias Harris, really good guy, like an just I think is about all the right things. But he's young in his prime minister worked as Asaf to improve every single year to build himself into a borderline all star. I wonder about the two sides of that equation about, you know, whether the MAC salary that that he might be seeking almost certainly is is it is it worth it for them to have them in the in the fourth man role. And is it worth it for him to to be there? If he feels like he could be a more impactful player somewhere else. Yes. So the question that you're posing, right? Is would you rather have Ben Simmons Jimmy Butler JJ? Joel Embiid Landry Shamet plus two I in another twenty million dollars of potential financial flexibility this season versus Ben Simmons JJ Redick. Jimmy, Butler, Tobias Harris, Joel Anthony. And tax Bill in nineteen or near tax Bill in night likely tax Bill in in nineteen twenty and definite tax Bill in twenty twenty and beyond. It's a fair question in, you know, whenever you have to pay your fourth best player, or, you know, third best player, you know, some people would value them differently. It gets hard when you have to pay that player of the max the best teams, historically, get value on the max, and the more value you can get on the max the better. And and when you start to pay, you know, thirty million dollars to a player that's going to give you about thirty million dollars in productivity, especially when at the very top of the roster, which like let's just say Charlotte, you know, having to pay potentially Kemba Walker what they have to pay Campbell to keep combat as their best player. That's really really difficult to do and be really good. But if you're Philly, it's it's more just a question of, okay. Let's say let's say Tobias worth twenty our cost is is thirty two. Let's say to Tobias might be worth twenty five in terms of value. But we gotta pay him thirty thirty two, you know, that's just that's that's flexibility in some respects. But it's more just about payroll. It's more just about what is your owner willing to spend to keep that player on your roster. And and most of these owners have the money to do that. And so you would just have to think that you're gonna say sham it, plus those two first and the twenty million dollars. Yeah. That may be better than Tobias Harris. But it also may not be better than Tobias Harris. So I absolutely understand. Why why Philly made the decision they made? And you know, it's easy to understand. Why people may question it? But that's the I mean that's the game. We're in and I it's also important to say that a lot of teams made this bet this year because they because everyone saw a path to potentially get to the NBA finals. Now, Philly came up short. We're gonna talk about Boston. Boston comes up short. So all of a sudden, we start questioning, you know, was was the price worth it. Did we? We gamble our future for the current, and and they may have, but but that's just the best. But that teams are forced to make. And you know, I I don't blame Philly. Ultimately, I think this team is going to be really good down the stretch. They got some questions or sorry. Really good into the future. They they certainly have some questions, but they have a young group of really really good players that if they're able to retain and keep together they're going to be good for a long time last thing before we move onto Boston. The fact that they did give up a very very good package to get to a Sarasin. I'm not second guessing it at at all to me a lot of sense of the time. But I think the clippers also did fantastic on that trait in terms of what they got back. That's you know, I don't want to say some cost because it's it's almost pejorative. I don't it's not sunk. This was this was a good trade for the Sixers. But to the extent that that is a cost that has already been conveyed. Is there a pressure on a front office to re-sign a guy? Because we gave up Landry Shamet bene- couple of firsts. And all this other stuff. Does it make you does it feel all that much more urgent? You think for a front office to resign him? Even if you think that long term, you know, what maybe he's not quite the best fit. We can always trade him down the line. If we need to re replenish our bench or something or we'll figure it out. Is there a pressure though to justify the deal that you made and not lose him for nothing because of all the that you gave. One hundred percent. And that's why you know, Tobias may be in a better position for a five-year max then Jimmy Butler because on net the Sixers gave up less for Jimmy Butler than they did for Tobias. So yeah, the justification of if Jimmy Butler were to leave or they were too, you know, offer before year plus some partially in in in your five guaranteed contract. You know, if Jimmy walks, you know, yeah, they're able to say, okay. We the cost was Covington for basically a year. Sorry. You know, it was it was worth the bed. You know, if you lose the twenty twenty one Miami. I let's say it does increase in value value and become a really good player. Really good pick down down the road, you know, their own I in twenty twenty that's probably just amid, you know, average, first round pick and mind your sham. It looks like he could be a long term starter in the NBA. Yeah. You had a lot of pressure to to to re. Zayn Tobias Harris. So absolutely fair point. And that's why you know Tobias is likely to get a great contract from Philly this off season. We don't need to go down to this rabbit hole. Because we're limited on time. We should get to Boston. But also just want to say before we move on from Philly. It would be insane for them to to fire Brett Brown. I think I don't know how you feel about that part of it. But it just that's even out there right now as close as they were to the conference finals and the past that they've gone from the last few years to get to this point just seems insane to me. Well, it's not it's not Browns fault that they only had their starting group for twenty one games together. Exactly. And and Brit Brown has done a fantastic job building that team. And if you're gonna make a coaching change, especially if you're going to change the level of coach that they currently have you have to know that the coach you're going to get is going to be better, or you know, the other justification is we've had a long run with the same group. And we want a new voice a little bit. Like, maybe Toronto this year with Nick nurse and Dwayne Casey who we all also agree as a fantastic coach. And they just thought that maybe the. The time was right for a new voice. But you know, short of short of that coach being out there. You know, maybe there's a couple of coaches that are that. We've known historically have been just absolutely great when they've had opportunities to to coach their teams. But certainly this is the unfair part of the NBA Brown's done a fantastic job. He deserves to get the coach that team in the future. Absolutely agree. All right. The Boston Celtics. Oh, this one is fun. So this this is really all about one guy. It's about more the one guy, but it's mostly about one guy, and that's Irving and a lot of this will go to what kyri wants right this kyri want to join Kevin Durant in New York. Kyrie one a. Oh, my God have a a reunion with LeBron James in L A, which is gaining more momentum. It feels like by the day. Brian win history on his podcast saying that that Cairo has had this discussion with people. So a lot of this will depend on what kyri himself wants. And that that good luck. Anybody trying to guess that? But it's funny the way that things ended because of just the cloud over the Celtics his play against the bucks. The perception that chemistry wasn't great. And that a lot of leads back to kyri. So then it became this. Well, should the Celtics themselves even want him back. Danny ainge. Are you still going all out to resign kyri, not even not even a second of hesitation, Wes Wilcox? No. I'm on talent to load, obviously. But but he also is the past Anthony Davis. Yes. Sin, and so absolutely. The Celtics were inconsistent throughout the course of the year. No one will argue that including you know, the Celtics people internally but without question. You wanna try to resign kyri, you resigned? Kyri? You have a real path at Anthony Davis, assuming he hasn't already been traded prior to July first, which I've heard some some rumblings about which is just hard to believe that that would happen unless you know, kyri has told Boston that he he does not plan to return. Yeah. You resign kyri? You got a great shot of Anthony Davis, and you know, next season. Could look you know vastly different than than this season. Interesting aspects of the chemistry discussion, which listen, I I don't I'm not downplaying that for a second. There clearly were some tensions between kyri and some of the younger guys. And they were clearly some just, you know, whatever hurt feelings tensions along the way things that were said if you are if he does return they're making a trade for a d. Then the chemistry changes anyway. Because some of those guys are gone. It's a whole different lineup. You've gotta made to solve it right there. I don't know if you have an opinion on this or how you view this. I've been curious about this chicken and egg thing where are you? If you could make a deal for Anthony Davis. And you knew you had that in hand, it is aunt is a trade for Anthony Davis. What will keep kyri there? Do you think or you re signing kyri with the assumption that or are you going to get to resign him with the assumption that then that allows you to make the trade for Anthony Davis, and he would stay like which one of them. I I wonder is key to keeping the other one AD being acquired with the understanding that he'll play with kyri or Kyrie resigning with the understanding that they're gonna make the deal for AD, the heart thing with this one. You didn't have to say, okay kyri who do you play with Kevin Durant and a place like New York or maybe even the clippers. It's hard to see careers a path to the clippers, but they could happen. And I mean path to the clippers because they have Shay. But like Kerry, do you wanna go play with K D or do you wanna play with Anthony Davis or do you want to pay with LeBron? So k kinda re could have his own little kind of front office path to to how can I build my championship future? Lebron in LA, you know, Kevin Durant, and maybe a couple of cities or Anthony Davis in you know, in Boston. And and may maybe maybe elsewhere. I mean, I I have a hard time to you know, getting to LeBron kyri and Anthony Davis largely because of the pieces that the Lakers would trade in order to acquire. Anthony Davis that deal just seems to be not as good as the deal may be elsewhere for New Orleans, should they decide to trade Anthony? So, but but that's that's the question. I so so so it it's a hard one to answer because we don't know what. Are- is gonna say, but if Boston were to let's just say they were to make a commitment to or try to make a commitment with New Orleans and all be contingent upon a pound Kyrenia saying, yes, so you know, Boston and New Orleans would would in theory agree to terms, they would take it to kyri. If kyri doesn't give them a thumbs up a guarantee that you're coming back. It's it's you just can't believe that Boston would make that trade, you know, with with without knowing that they have car reluctant up so pushes it into the pushes it into July. And this is what? And of course, again because of the weird CBA. Wrinkle. The Celtics can't make a deal for him until after July first anyway, right? Yep. So, but on that that last note that you hit there is it you considered a given that if kyri walks or if they're if they have been told that he's going to walk if they know in June that Kyrie's not staying does that automatically eliminate the Celtics from contention. Amid you think that that? Like like that that cuts off that entire discussion. Because you don't want to give up the since it would take to get a D. And you think that AD may not want to stay without kyri? Like, it's just end the whole that of that whole eighty discussion. I would think it does. Because you know, I we know what what you know, what goes into these superstar trades, you know, financial flexibility young players and draft picks. And you know, maybe more than ever before we've seen teams prioritise like competitive rebuilds, you know, like Brooklyn was forced into this. And the the clippers have have certainly done this on the fly as good as anybody we've ever seen and Boston has been able to, you know, build rebuild competitively on the backs of you know, the Brooklyn picks. So this is been the highest level of transition for a franchise. And I would bet that. That's what you're going to see, you know, be the priority in New Orleans. Not just hit the absolute bottom, especially with you know, some of these you know, upcoming drafts. The McDonald's all star game was high school all star game was just a couple of weeks ago. I was just up in well here in Atlanta. I went to a Nike E Y relevant to try to get a chance to see some of these twenty twenty and twenty twenty one young players. And there just doesn't seem to be like the the next LeBron clearly out there in twenty twenty or and maybe twenty twenty one there might be a couple of players that could be, you know, transformational, but the priority shifted to find a way to be competitive in your rebuild. And so if Hayward was better, and you had Horford, then you might be able to say Anthony Davis, Al Horford, Gordon Hayward trade are young pieces. You know, we're going to be the best team in the east even giving up all these young pieces. Without having Kyrie. But that just you know, doesn't seem to be a realistic path towards contention. And you know, one thing we know about the Boston Celtics is they are clearly focused on not just contention, but winning championships. And so the most realistic path to a championship is, you know, to great players in their prime and two top ten players in our plant prime. And it just doesn't seem like short of kyri that there's a path for Boston to do that and realistically acquire Anthony Davis. No, I think that's probably it's probably the consensus out there that you you the each of those guys is almost a Lynch pin to the other at this point. There's this other way of looking at the Celtics, and I wanted to see if you think there's any validity to this where regards kyri they made the conference finals without him and Gordon Hayward they went to game seven of the conference finals. Now, the east was not quite as strong a year ago, but still game seven of the conference finals with a team that was powered by Jason Tatum, and Jalen Brown, Terry Rozier, obviously, Al Horford was was still part of that mix to he's, you know, getting up there in years, but still very, you know, incredibly impactful player if Kyrie walks ca can they resigned, Terry Rozier and just go on about their business, and they're fine. They're still a top four team in the east. They've still got a shot Rosiere may wanna leave to in which case, I don't even know how the replacing or what they're doing it point guard. How critical is that situation just at point guard in like if Kyrie leaves is there enough talent there where like, hey, you know, Jalen Brown? Jason tatum. Okay. So they they slumped for one year. But maybe it was chemistry. Maybe they bounced back. Maybe they become those those stars that you expected is there still an upside there for the Celtics sands, Kyrie? Oh, I mean absolutely there is and like this is what's great about the Celtics situation. There's the kyri path, and then there's the no career path which for sure is going to include, you know, resigning Terry Rozier, who you know, may have actually in some odd way help the Celtics by not playing as much in suppressing his value as a restricted free agent. So you sign Rosiere and then in the Nokia repast after you sign resume you go into next season. You say, okay, we're gonna see as good as we can be if we can't recreate the magic from recreate the magic of the seventeen eighteen season. And if we get midway through the year, hopefully, we can get Gordon Hayward plan better. We have out Horford who's likely to opt in to his, you know, thirty million dollar contract. Maybe he doesn't upped in. And and renegotiates some kind of smaller number for a greater number of years. But if if you get midway through next year, and you you could can and you're not super happy with how competitive your team is. Maybe you consider Gordon Hayward, Al Horford trades and you start planning for twenty twenty free agency and where you can have maximum or twenty twenty one. And you know, one of the things that's gonna be fascinating about the Anthony Davis scenario is how much that he's willing to commit to a team that he's treated to this off season and the longer this goes, the more control Rich Paul and Anthony Davis are going to have in the Anthony Davis trade talks. But if Anthony doesn't go to a place, or maybe he goes to a place, and he you know, he's not like super excited about how that year plays out. I mean in theory, you could maybe just Boston loose kyri, you know, re-sign rose year and maybe a player in twenty twenty free agency. If Anthony Davis isn't locked up on on some sort of massive extension or new contract. So. So like, there's a there's a great path for Boston. And this is why going back to the to the new way of building. You know, you find a way to build as competitive as you can you still need great young players, you still need to develop them you still need to draft. Well, but this is why the Celtics franchise is just a model for how to build, you know, a dual path highly competitive. Organization. No, it's it's it's striking think. And I think you're right. And this is all credit to them because they're going to get thumped if kyri leaves they're gonna get thumped if they don't make the trade for all these plans, which has all been, you know, very much. I don't know if expected, but but the public discussion has been such that people just really feel like the Celtics are in the driver's seat. So if they don't get AD and Kyrie these people are going to look at this. It's like this this huge loss for Danny Ainge, and the Celtics, and of course, you know, on its face it is, but they have so much. They're still that they could still be a top tier team in the east and with deflects ability to keep adding that is that is the beauty of what they've done and wall will be considered a negative. If those things come to pass about a, and I I think what will what will quickly see after that is they've built something sustainable and wound up almost looking better in the end for how well, they're they can you know, kind of kind of spin out of that. I will be fine. I including this no one talks about the fact that Gordon Hayward while he had a pretty, you know, up and down year is I think at least I won't say likely, but we never know his health, but there's a decent chance that he returns to all star form next season that the first year back from a catastrophic type of leg injury. Like, Paul George head that Gordon Hayward had you're never you're back to hundred percent in year one. And you know, there's a good chance. He's back to all star for next year. And again, if the roster's thinned out a little bit, whether it's because they made a three for one deal for a D or because Kyrie is gone, Gordon. Hayward to play much more prominent role and more effective role again at full strength. And with the ability to have the ball in his hands more and be the the combination playmaker score that he is. So like their upside includes the fact that Jason Tatum, and Jalen Brown are going to keep getting better. And Gordon Hayward could return to the form that he was when they first signed him here hundred percent, right. We always talk about the return to play. And we almost never talk about the return to. Productivity date and Paul George is the best example that you just mentioned, you know, it takes a long time to come back. We had you know, we had Lou Williams in Atlanta who tore his ACL in January, and he made a he had a great rehab a great recovery. And he was back, you know, eight months after after the injury or so, but it was a full nother year before he had he had everything we've seen in since then he's like multiple multiple six man of the year award winner. And you know, one of the greatest kind of bench players in the history of the NBA or reestablished himself is that so yeah, the return to play is what we all focus on the return of productivity is huge. And then Secondly, the other point that you mentioned is pecking order Rixon longtime executive great mentor to us over the years. He would always say the best teams have a best pecking order, and sometimes you don't want you. Sometimes it's actually better to have a little bit less. So everyone has the space to be their absolute best. And we you're a hundred percent we concert. See that with Boston. And this is why their future is so compelling. They have a kyri path that potential leaves to Anthony Davis with the upside of Gordon Hayward, they have a no Kyrie path with with a ton of great players where they likely keep brassiere. And then they will say, okay, great. Does this teamwork? And if it doesn't work mid next season, then they can explore moves in Horford and Hayward while still having that Memphis pick out there, if they go down that path and all their own, you know, future picks. So can't say enough about the job that Boston has done. I actually think Philly is a little higher stakes because if Philly doesn't if Phillies for some somehow not able to re-sign Jimmy Butler Tobias they don't have this secondary path of continued contention or continued building. So to fascinating teams. I'm a big fan of the job that both teams have done. And it's it's a lot less stress. Stressful not having to sit in those front offices and and work through the. Reality of those decisions, you know, over this next, you know, six to eight weeks. No doubt running out of time. You and I are both heading to Chicago. I'm gonna be I'm gonna be in the sequester room the extra lottery draw room. Yeah. So much fun envelope room. Yeah. The the the frozen pong ballroom. She'll be the third time. I think go do that being the sequester room. It's it's so we'll be we'll both be there in Chicago this week, including the draft combine everything else. Do you have a great lottery night story of any kind? I don't know if you've ever been in the sequester rumor of you've done the day or whatever. But what's your what's your most interesting lottery nights story? So I've never been in a question room. But but to lottery moments that, you know, will never forget one, you know, way back in two thousand three I was I was in Los Angeles as young kid is a video coordinator pulse. Had just gotten a Cleveland cavalier job. So watching law lottery when the Cavs win the lottery knowing that there may be an opportunity go will work for the Cavs. I remember run around my house was like a twenty four year old lose my mind, cause like, you know, we were going to have a LeBron who, you know, ended up being just an incredible seven year run and so much so many incredible. Happen to our family and really because LeBron. But I mean, I bought my first house. I joke that LeBron bought my first house LeBron bought my wife's wedding ring, LeBron provided everything for our family. So certainly the two thousand three lottery was unbelievable. And then also in Cleveland, we made a trade Chris grant, the general manager made a just a great trade with the clippers for Baron Davis, which was the ninth ping pong ball selection at the time, it was a two point eight percent chance for like even remember twelve million dollars. And we won the lottery that year and that that was a fascinating year because we lost twenty six games in a row that season the first year after LeBron had left. And and that twenty six game losing streak was the NBA record. I think Thai we tied the NBA record. And what's fascinating about a rebuild? And this is why luck isn't a critical factor in a rebuild. You know that twenty six game losing streak worst record in the NBA that you're that led to the fourth picking the draft. And but we made a trade for two point eight percent chance with the clippers and the clippers went from the ninth lottery seed to the first and that ended up being career having which set the stage really for, you know, LeBron to come back to Cleveland, and then ultimately their championship in two thousand sixteen. So those are two lottery moments that, you know, we'll stand out forever. Ignites is still the highest or the low or the biggest leap of a team, right? Yes. Like, no one's knows leaped up from ninth Ronan, Derrick rose. Oh, no. He was too right? There was no he was he was the bulls were also somewhere than eighth ninth range. I don't think anybody from tenth on down has ever lived to number one have they? Yeah. It all blends together, you know, we're vision and louder position over time. But certainly certainly that kyri one with the clippers and Chicago there with their grows. Those are the two are the most memorable jumps. I I love the lottery. I'm just a complete frigging sucker for the lottery. Like, I know that there's all these arguments about why the lottery socks the draft is terrible. We should not have a triumph. Everybody should just be signed free agent contracts and the draft it's wrong. And it's immoral like the draft show is is like the built in drum. It's all like, it's so much fun. And the lottery is like it's fake drama. Right. It's like, it's a it's a half hour TV show built on drummer. That is created by withholding information that is already known. And and it's ridiculous. But I I'm just complete sucker for it. I know exactly what it is. But I love it every time it's even more fun in some ways being back in the room and watching the actual ball's bouncing around and and all these GM's sweating through their suits. So I can't wait give me tocado get me to the ping pong ballroom west. This has been great as always man pre sheet it as soon as we create full forty-eight swag. You'll have your your t-shirt and your bumper sticker friend of the show of appreciate Hyun. I will soon Chicago for sure.

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Post-Deadline Wiz Therapy, Sixers/Bucks/Raptors Arms Race, Lessons from the Lakers Strikeout

Open Floor

1:15:36 hr | 1 year ago

Post-Deadline Wiz Therapy, Sixers/Bucks/Raptors Arms Race, Lessons from the Lakers Strikeout

"And welcome back to another episode of open floor. I made sharp and on the other line from the Washington Post Benghazi. What's up, man? Not too much job to start things off a little bit differently. This episode. I don't think I've ever done this before. But I'm gonna come straight out in beg. Okay. And look nobody wants to give us sympathy as journalists. There's a lot harder jobs in the world. But I can speak for myself. I'm pretty sure I could speak for you. My fingers are sore. I'm seeing double because I've been staring at my computer screen trade deadline week is a long week, Andrew and both of us. You know, we wrote our behinds off. And I would like to encourage everyone to not only listen to this podcast. And we're going to try to bring you about an hour of heat bringing everything down, but go out there and click for us. You know, what I mean, go out there and make those clicks rain for your boys? Ben and Andrew make those clicks rain. It's funny because I wasn't gonna even bring it up because I thought it would be. Too lame to complain about trade deadline week. But that's why I'm here. Don't worry lames. Not a problem. Listen, I have spent the last ninety six hours texting people and staring at my phone. And then I spent all day all afternoon writing the winners and losers column which wound up being like thirty five hundred words, my editor was like this way too long. But it is what it is a lot happened at the trade deadline, and it was good. But I will say there's something with like brain chemistry. I was thinking about earlier when I stare at by phone for too long, it leads to insomnia. And so the last couple of nights I've been up at like three and four AM like watching thirty rock completely incapable of falling asleep. Well, here's the thing edgy. I can't fact check you on what television shows, you're not sleeping too. But I can fact check you on your texting habits because look we got some serious brotherly beef to still work through because you mentioned just a minute ago. How you've spent the last ninety six hours texting. People. Well, texting everyone except for me, Andrew because last time I checked I sent you some really nice smart forward thinking messages when John wall went down injured. I had a whole plan you, and I were going to draft a legal brief and try to appeal for an amnesty clause on behalf of the wizards. Did I hear back from you there? No boom day or two later after I looked at your Twitter account where your screen grabbing your your group. Text messages with your other friends, not me because you're not replying to me. But your other little wizards France who are lucky enough to get replies. From you. I tried to shake that off. And I came back at you with some autre auto porter trade analysis didn't hear too much, and it made me think Andrew where you really walking the walk here when you were having this big spiel to Knicks fans because if I remember last week, you were telling them. Be so powerful have a stiff upper lip and all that stuff. And this was after they lost Kristaps Porzingis. Their franchise player for you know, basically the guy had twenty years. You lose a third wheel auto porter who had lost his starting job. And you lose John wall to an injury. But he was already injured and as far as I can tell you went into a cocoon for four days. And I believe in we're posting pictures on Instagram of your snacks at your eating to like your way through the healthcare care. Yes. I had a number of had some donuts. I had some Haribo sour spaghetti. I was living. Good last night. Now, look, okay. Is that really the definition of having a stiff upper lip eating a bunch of sweet tooth and just shoving goldfish in your mouth. And then not replying to text messages to me leaving me hanging. I dunno aunt you. It seems like maybe you are. Little hypocritical here. Look your point is well taken okay. And I don't wanna sound self absorbed. But there is not a doubt in my mind that all of what's happened to the wizards is some kind of carbon payback for all the shit. I have talked about other NBA teams over the course. In the last ten years. I don't know what line specifically I crossed that caused me to be consigned to this miserable existence until the end of time certainly the next five years and the duration of walls contract, but I clearly earned it. And here we are pinpoint the line. I think it was when you were trying to sabotage the grizzlies and John Hollander into trading for John wall while he was unfortunately, slipping in his house in ripping his achilles up in all serious. No do feel tested by this week of wizards news because the wall injury is just brutal news for wall. And I thought Mike Lee had a great column on that. And there was a lot of people. I can't tell you how many messages I received Andrew, and I read all them because you weren't replying to my tags. That said, hey, go easy on Andrew. It's going to be a real tough week for him. I mean, this was such a bruising backbreaking injury. Yes. People were feeling secondhand simple. Th-y for you who doesn't even play for the team or really have any official connection to the. No, I certainly do not. But I do appreciate everyone who reached out, and it's funny. Look like most of the time. We talk about the wizards. I'm kinda just joking around and screwing around. And that's how I initially reacted to the wall news in the in the thirty to forty minutes after it hit. And I mean, look objectively speaking you have to step back and say this guy allegedly slipped and fell and ruptured his achilles in his house. It's both like the most wizards injury of all time. And also like one of the saddest things that's happened in the NBA in quite some time. And so in that respect, it was like kind of a just an amazing hilarious internet story. And then the reality of it all began to set in and I really did just turn off my phone for the rest of Tuesday afternoon and just sort of. Shut out the world for a little while because. I mean, I do really care about the wizards. And this is like the spiritual cousin of the Gilbert arenas downfall. And the idea that those two guys could have trajectories so similar and so amazingly depressing. Like, it honest to God and broke my goddamn brain to Tuesday. Just what do they say like history rhymes is it history rhyming, like really really hard is in the DC gogo just rhyming like crazy, right? I don't know if that's actually an expression, I've I've never heard it before. But yes, whether history is echoing certainly, and no it was just awful. And look like it is it's awful for John wall. Who's a guy that I think like the last year and a half has been pretty complicated. But everybody should have been rooting for them all along. He's got a credible story, and he plays his ass off and always has at least until the last year and a half of. But he just the whole Angie like too much for me to handle. Then the wizards turnaround and trade Otto porter and get nothing back. Like, I was just beside myself with that whole thing. I mean, I understand why auto but to just get back like some second round pick in two thousand twenty three Bobby Portis, who sucks Jabari shouldn't be in the NBA. I don't know what to do with his team anymore. We've already been over this. I don't want fan amnesty. But it was like a really rough week. You're right to be concerned. And the roughest part was you adjust told us at the end of last week after getting that inspirational Email from K J Suns fan about how you would never give up on the wizards, and sort of this is how they repaid you. We'll get auto Puerto at a second because it was an interesting trae to look at. But can I break some news here real quick? And you I'm gonna I'm gonna go public with something that I haven't mentioned previously last year at about this time, actually broke my foot, and it was. No, fun at all. It was awful. And look the rehab was like six weeks. Right. Not a big deal. Nothing compared to even what wall was going through with the first injury where he was going to be out for like eight months right during my rehabilitation following the foot injury. I had to go through what I'm sure wall was going through which is like the boot the bag that you have to wear during the shower and all that stuff. Right. And I will tell you. I'm not a world class NBA athlete by any stretch. But one false step is so easy to happen in that situation. Your balances thrown off everything is so difficult. You get tired by just even getting up off the couch is hard to do the prospect of going grocery shopping is just an absolute nightmare your arms or aching from crutches. I'm not seeking sympathy. Here what I'm trying to say is I can see that wall deserves the benefit of the Dow with all these conspiracy theories it would be so simple for him to have one false step. Boom, go down. Given the severity of the injury the complications from the first surgery. I think we should just sit take all those conspiracy theories that people are thrown out there and put them in the trash can and basically give this guy that benefit of the doubt. Definitely. And as far as humanity aspect of it. I have the way I feel about walls contract is the same way. I feel about Gilbert's contract where it's like look if it all had to come crashing down. I'm glad that wall is gonna make one hundred and eighty million dollars at the end of all this because I did I will always love John wall. Just just like I always loved Gilbert and Gilbert got paid right before his career started on Ravel. But look this is we're all we're getting too dark here. Like, I wrote about the wizards. If anybody wants to read about it, and okay, well, let's brighten it up by welcoming Jabari Parker to the nation. No. I'm just kidding. Let me let me ask you this way on the auto trade. Of course, you know, better late than never right like they're basically getting nothing for him. If they traded him six months ago, twelve months ago, definitely would have gotten more for him all things considered though given that they've created this financial flexibility, given they've give themselves a chance to sort of retool around Beal, potentially the sucks so flexibility. Did they really create they created enough room to re-sign Trevor Aretha who's going to be thirty four years old next year? Like, I don't want to spec. You don't wanna Thomas Bryant back? I mean, these are these are guys you've pretended to like over the last couple of months, I do really like those two players in particular. But I just I think they wanted to get on the tax. And that was the auto trade was the way to do it. But to not get any sort of meaningful pick any sort of rebuilding tool. Back for him is just unforgivable have sorry. So really, it's a bad way to manager basketball team. Okay. But fall to its conclusion though. So you're saying they shouldn't have done the trade. I would not have traded auto at rock-bottom value. If that's all you could get I'm convinced like what Sacramento gave up to get Harrison Barnes. I wonder whether they could have gotten that same package from the kings. And you know, that's like Justin Jackson is. I'd rather have just Jackson on a rookie deal. Then Bobby Portis and having to pay him this summer because I bet you they're going to try to keep him. And I bet I'm going to have to watch Bobby Portis. See now you sell a Knicks fan just predicting the doom and gloom of future and past bad decisions. All this one decisions are going to sign. Kevin durant? This summer. The wizards are going to be the wizards for the rest of my God damn life. I feel bad for myself. The Knicks fans have good things coming their way. Yeah. Well, you've had more success than them though, recently. I mean, you know. Yeah. Well, it's a very kind of Eastern Conference see success that it's almost more depressing. But the auto play his way out of value though. I mean, isn't that part of this to like he wasn't really that good this year? He lost his starting spot at times or they're going to move them to the bench to try to supercharge offense, or whatever their rationale was. I mean, this guy was on a gigantic terrible contract. There is a good argument. Like is he giving you more than Harrison Barnes? That's a really rough category to be in a couple years ago. He was a much more effective fishing. You know, positive contributing player. I'm not sure we can put all of this on the wizards front office. Can we? Not as a -sarily. I think that. Yeah. Yes. We can't. It's offices mismanages every step of the way. All right. Like auto has not been perfect auto. There are valid questions about what he's really giving you at this point. I think there are a couple of injuries that have slowed him down over the last few years. And I have we had this conversation a year ago or your and a half ago. I would have been positive that he was about to go somewhere else and have a great career. And now, I'm less certain particularly since he's going to Chicago. But. Love that. We're starting to sell with the wizards. Which is definitely what the people want covet out of the Troy is what the people it is what the people want for. Sure. No, I feel bad for auto. I mean, the idea of guy who sort of had trouble finding himself being thrown into the Jim Boylan shark tank. That's no fun. That's not even like. What's that is darker than Washington? I mean, they found a way to put it into a situation. That's definitely worse. Let me tell you who's not gonna put teammates in a position to succeed. Zach LeVine and Chris done. They need to figure out the backward in Chicago. And I like I'm so close to really getting in on the bulls that everything they're trying to do. And then Zach LeVine is just as Zastava. I'll watch five minutes of a bulls game. It'd be like I can't I can't do it. And then they bring in Archie to nocco. I don't even know how you say is named like just please find support guards who aren't Zach LeVine or Chris done or the kid from Villanova. Did you see paxon's comments today? His we really like our four positions talking about two through five and he's like and with Chris, you know, we're just going to play them for better or worse. Well, you don't want. The bulls are sort of living out the reality that the wizards are going to be staring at with Portis because they brought in Levin and Chris done, and they just feel obligated to keep running out with them and seeing if it's going to work, and sometimes you just gotta cut bait. And again, that's not what the wizards are going to do with Bobby Portis. My one coherent thought here before we move onto relevant teams in the NBA. The wizards could actually salvage the next three to four years if they wanted to start getting aggressive about attacking the rebuilding process. And it's a really ironic kind of place for me to be because I don't know we've been over this all the podcast in the past four five years ago. I was at war with the process army because I live with Michael LeVine. And I was just constantly taking shots at their whole bullshit Salafi. And in a lot of games was right? Like, ultimately like, you sounds like you want the swamp process is that where this is going. I do absolutely want the slob process at our roles have been inverted entirely because the Sixers meanwhile are about to spend a lot of money on a team that. Probably not good enough. And so it just is a perfect hundred eighty degree in version of our roles, and yes, they call them Ernie brand or Elton Grunfeld. Hey, here's my question for you though on the Sixers because that's where we should go on your list of winners and losers. I believe you had them a winner to me they were losers during this trade deadline season. And I understand okay. Short term. They went for it. You could say that their fans are winners because hey, you're getting this huge message from the front office that like your title contender this year. Let's school all let's make a count. Do you think what they did during this trade deadline was actually good for their franchise though? Long term big picture before we get there. Could I just make one more with point? Yes. Of course, let's do another hour on. One more hour on the wizards that will talk NBA traits. The way to start all this is to shut Bradley Beal down for the rest of the year tank land in the middle of the top ten and then trade deal for another top ten pick and go into next season with two top ten picks and has many other projects and high upside guys as you can find and look if the Knicks number one, you could Trey Bradley Beal for the Knicks pick at he would be a perfect fit next to whoever New York's trying to bring in this summer, and you could do the same shoot Dallas. If the Mavericks are in the top five like Bill has that value? So anyways, why are you why are you beating around the Bush? You're isn't what you wasn't a real plan to just take the Lakers scraps that the pelicans laughed at and just import all of them for Bill is that where this is going. No, look, the wizards have to dream a little bit bigger than the eventual seven seed with Brandon Ingram and Lonzo ball. And whoever else the Lakers wanna throw in. And we'll talk about the Lakers offer. Okay. Because I definitely have some thoughts there. But the Sixers side of it. I did like the Sixers deal in part and really almost entirely because I think Tobias Harris is a great fit in theory between Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid, and he also he buys them a little bit of Jimmy Butler insurance to where if this thing doesn't really work out. And I don't really think it's going to they can go the other direction this summer, and they don't have to spend two hundred million dollars on the next five years of Jimmy Butler career, and you know, every outsider can can look at this and say, that's that's a bad contract. It's going to be a bad contract that they had signed. It's only gonna get worse. And I think now Elton brand will have just enough room to actually. Say all right. This hasn't worked Jimmy, and we're not going to pay two guys a combined three hundred fifty million dollars. So that's the way it goes. And avai can't say that now because like the next couple months, we'll get super dysfunctional in Philadelphia. But I do think that that's the way could go and should go. I like what you're thinking. I'm not sure that that's how they're thinking. And I also have concerns that not only did they buy at the highest possible moment of Tobias Harris stock like this is the Tobias bubble of all Tobias bubbles the arced all-star buzz twenty points per game. I mean, even just go back to a year ago when he wasn't that fundamentally of a different person. Nobody really got that excited when he was traded for Blake Griffin. Right. When you look at his career arc. I don't think he's going any higher. I mean, he basically is who is. And I think thing we Jimmy like the decline there has already started. So you're now considering paying both those guys huge money, or at least one of those guys huge money this summer after you've traded. Sets for them. And I I'm not sure that the fit between the two of them is as great as what you laid out earlier with Simmons and Embiid, which definitely does fit cleanly on top of that. Didn't they pay two hundred percent too much for Tobias Harris like given his contract situation? Like if he was under contract through all of next year. You could maybe say okay a couple of first round picks. But when I saw the Tobias Harris package, I was thinking that that's what Anthony Davis was going to get from the Lakers in terms of the picks. Right. So now, I'm thinking if we scale up what Tobias got from the Sixers for Anthony Davis. Aren't we talking sixteen first round picks fourteen second round picks to make that deal? Given their relative talent. You know what I mean? And so that makes me nervous. Here's the thing though. I actually kinda disagree there. Because if you've already got Simmons and NBA. NBA did that the first round picks are less important. You've got the guys in place, and they need to go. Find a third guy who actually make sense, and if getting to bias cost two first round picks one of which is a Miami pick one of which is a lottery protected. Sixers pick that is probably going to be in the twenties. If all things go according to plan, which. Every pick in the twenties is essentially a second router as far as I'm concerned. And so you hate picks the wrong guy to be arguing. I don't hate pigs. I think we need to be a little bit more precise. In terms of how we value. I I think a lottery pick is incredibly valuable, but the the odds of getting someone who's more than like a bench player in the twenties is is the odds are pretty low. No, I hear you. But you're also going to be paying him what like twenty five twenty eight million dollars. And so also in your scenario, if they get rid of Butler now the cost for Harris's two first-round picks Shamet two second round picks and Dario and Covington because now Tobias cost you Jimmy under this near that. You're lying out. There is no way. You can tell me that that's a good process for Elton brand come on. Well, you're looking at that in the most unfair possible light if you're adding Covington. And Dario to the Tobias trade. That's completely logical. That is a sung. I mean, if you're telling me that you're bringing into bias because you you're trying to push out. Jimmy, isn't there on those two things related, and if you can't pay both of them aren't those things directly related? Yes. But I I would also say that I think your trying to sort of criticize Elton brand when it's just as possible that he deserves credit for recognizing the Jimmy fit isn't going to work long term and look at we should actually be pretty clear upfront. That's probably not the way the Sixers are thinking. But even if Elton brand and whoever is running the team right now. Even if part of the rationale was just buying themselves some flexibility, I think there's value in that that your discounting. And I think we're going to have to kind of wait and see what they actually decide to do this summer before we judge the steel, but I would not conflict what they gave up in the Jimmy deal with what they gave up in the Tobias deal. I think that they were two separate decisions the Jimmy deal made sense of the time in part because they weren't sure who was going to be available at the deadline, and they recognize that they were not going to get a superstar this summer. And so that they had. A spot that they had to fill because the money is going to disappear once Simmons signs, but to vice could end up being a better fit in which case, they that's fine. I just see a first time GM with no previous experience making two. Very bold cash. Tight moves clearing out his bench slapping, together, a new bench and the process dumping a number one overall pick who hasn't turned twenty one years old yet and trying to throw together five guys who really they're very interesting on paper, they'd be great and NBA two K or fantasy, but they have serious questions about how well they're going to function, and he's given himself basically a three month window before the Bill comes due, and it's going to be a very very expensive Bill. Sorry that sounds like too much risk for my blood. Second. Are you killing him for the full straight to you through in the trade number one overall pick that's super misleading if you're gonna just strip away any of the context when the last year and a half of Foltz? No my God. Now, you're a Sixers fan. This is crazy. I can't keep up Celtics fan or a wizards fan or Sixers fan come on. I'm not killing him for any of this. I'm just raising legitimate questions about his strategy. There is serious backfire potential. You can see that there's a lot of backfire potential. There's no question about it. And I do appreciate the Sixers four remaining completely unhinged at all times over the last couple of years there at once thrilling and one of the most exciting teams in the league. And also just like perpetually teetering on the brink of full blown disaster. And I think this as to it's extreme and the next couple of months because like like wishes talk about what the Sixers are going to be on the. Court like to bias Harris can't really play defense. That's not what he's great at. That's not. Why teams what's not anybody would want him JJ Rettig really can't play defense? And I don't know last couple of months Jimmy bowlers. I made it it's a to k roster. That's a great to k rock sharp is real excited with their starting five. But is it going to work at breakfast? I think it's a fair question. I do like the pairing between Harrison MB, though, don't you? I really liked that pairing. And I also think that Mike Scott is going to be sneaky helpful for them. That's kind of a random note, but he's going to be solid next to Simmons. And I hope that they get Wayne Ellington, who's a local guy. I think he could help them to the we're you on a local guy here like slinging chase sticks. At this point. No way elected one of my college friends went to Piscopo high school where way netted went in outside Philly and then wailing to Carolina guy. Okay. So I'm always going to have a soft spot for him. But he's a baller. He would be a great fit there. I hope he picks the Sixers over the Lakers, by the way, it'd be a better fit for him more minutes. More more shine in the playoffs. All that. Well to finish off the Sixers part of this podcast. We're you awake. When that trade went down believe it was early Wednesday morning around like two thirty in the morning, east coast time where you up online every trade. I don't know if I've slept in four days. That's why started this podcast by begging. Well, yes, I was awake as well. And I was watching thirty rock and the trade came through. And I just want to say like obviously, nobody's perfect. But I saw a lot of people a lot of like NBA reporters talking about the Sixers as if they had just assembled like a a real super team. Like, oh, big five. And I, you know, I don't really see. Okay. That's that's like the most depressing dysfunctional super team, you could possibly assemble and they may still make the finals, but we should be very clear eyed about all the questions and all the flaws that are baked into that starting five and beat is amazing. And everyone else has some pretty big red flags. That's well said look I'm going to do something that I rarely do Andrew, you know, I'm not real big on just anecdotal situations like form your opinions dry. I like to look at the big picture. Don't judge guys by their best air their worst day. But what thing stuck with me from the recent clippers Lakers game where LeBron came back and kinda pull that game out and OT late in the game Tobias Harris who had just spent the last two weeks getting showered by all-star, snub, talk and all this from his teammates, and his coaches the Paul kept going. To him. That's the moment. You're going to step up your in front of your home crowd because it was a clippers home game. Everybody's looking to him to to shoot three pointers late in the game kinda step up and be the man, and you he wanted no part of it. It was a pump fake party. I mean, this guy's out here. Faking faking faking shooting passing to somebody in the corner. No, I mean, like, you know, when guys don't want the moment, you know, you can kind of see it in there. I see it in their body language clocks under five seconds there pump-faking and passing the rock. That's how Tobias Harris was acting and for that's what I mean about kind of buying him at the highest possible moment, this guys, I don't believe he's ever been in a playoff win and his entire career. I think he's had four total playoff games when you're going into Boston. Or, you know, you're going to the, you know, the title favorites, Milwaukee and that crazy Pfizer form. Janas breathing down your neck about to knock you out in five games. Do you need to be ready to step up? Don't you? And I'm just curious like is Tobias Harris ready to be that guy because we know. Not going to be Simmons shooting. That's another pump fake party for you. It could be Jimmy. But he doesn't always exercise the best shot selection, and you can only force feed. Joel so often, and you don't want him taking threes late and games like Tobias is gonna play an important role for them. And I'm just that game may be nervous. It was like is this hype that you're describing at two AM getting ahead of them in terms of who he actually is a player. Yes. Well, and that's a good segue into my three takes on the trade. Okay. My three official takes the Sixers trait. Number one. This is probably stupid. They probably do intend to bring back all four players, and it's probably not going to end. Well, and if they pay Jimmy the Sixers are going to be really depressing as early as next December. And we're and instead of a four or five year run of really exciting teams with Embiid and Simmons like the window will close much quicker than anyone expects. And just in terms. They're going to be. They're paying super team prices for superman outlook. Yes. And listen as someone who has lived through the wall era as soon as you sign that contract, and it becomes clear to fans that there's just no flexibility and the team isn't good enough. If becomes much harder. Enjoy anything second take on the trade is as I've already said if this leads to them not paying Jimmy it will be worth it. No matter how good Tobias Harris is and number three. I think you're alluding to it. You didn't explicitly say it. I think that not a single person associated with NBA media or NBA Twitter has any idea. How good Tobias Harris is. And I think most of us haven't even really watched most of Tobias harasses career because he's been playing Detroit in Orlando and the best players on his teams have been like don't love me to this. Now, come on. Now, don't say this us, you have a mouse in. Pocket. Don't say us watching a lot of clippers games this year. You have been at a lot of clippers games. I just think it's hard to judge the trade because to your point. We don't know how to bias Harris is going to respond when you put him in some of these high intensity environments, and that does sound kind of like hot and whatever. But I'm on it all off at all. And I think he could be better than anyone expects. Well, actually, a lot of people expected to be really good. He could be that player. And he could be exactly what Philly needs to sort of like space the court and make their lineup make a little bit more sense than it has. And and if that's the case, the Sixers are going to be pretty interesting, and a lot of it is going to depend on, you know, can they guard anybody, but they fifteen second interjection before your third point the clippers from management to coach teammates. Everybody loved to buy Harris as a person as a player as an offensive fit as a guy who knows when to kind of get. His shot. And and how nuts ball hog all that stuff? They all swore by right? They were not trading him out of any malice, and that's been sort of repeated to me multiple times. So you are getting a really really good person and citizen if you're Philly. Yeah, we should throw that in. Well, we're saying he's gonna choke in the playoffs. I'm not saying that I'm really curious to see what he turns into. I'm not saying either. I'm just nervous. Well, we'll see should we talk about the bucks real quick because the beard, we should get to your. What was your third point though? Now, the my third point was simply that I have no idea. How good Tobias heiresses? I'm not gonna speak behalf of anyone else. I I am a little skeptical of like how certain everyone is that Tobias Harris is this like super officiant score who's gonna fit seamlessly into what Phillies try to do. Like, let's just wait and see. But I wanna talk about the bucks look because we don't need to spend too much time worshiping Jaanus, and what Milwaukee is going to be doing over the next couple of months, but getting miratec wasn't a pretty incredible win and John horse the front office people were skeptical when he took over people have been skeptical a lot of his time there. But this was incredible to do for four second round picks. I don't know is this type of trade that would get vetoed. In a lot of fantasy leagues. But it's a big win for the bucks. It's a clear win on a number of fronts. First of all I liked his George hill trae to I mean, they set this team up what they really solid balanced veteran heavy rotation. These guys are ready to go and all the pieces fit, and I know you've loved a harp on or sound Ilyasova and how he's kind of weak link for Milwaukee. Well, if you wanna make Ersan Ilyasova better in every way and younger, okay now, you have his name's Nico miratec. No, first round picks, going out is awesome. The second pick strategy mentioned was right on the money. And I think he's going to be seamless. You know, everything that people are saying about to buy Harris's fit in Philly. I think it's going to actually be basically like that for MIR to obviously, not as much volume, but in terms of just like dropping him in saying shoot wide open three pointers when Janas passes to you. It's going to be easy. I think he's going to hit the ground running. And you know, he's got the playoff experience just like George show as well. One other point real quick on the bucks. Did Janas bring more charisma to the NBA all star draft. And LeBron did I think he might have aunt you. I was sitting there watching these green colored, you know, these these books green colored glasses when I watch on us Inc. On the big stage. That is a huge moment. Was shack. Charles the whole world watching. You're picking your team's Jaanus joke. Writers were incredible. I don't know who wrote his jokes. But he delivered the bars brilliantly. He was making LeBron crackup. And I kind of felt like it was one of those passing the torch moments where like okay Janas has not superseded LeBron yet. But this is gonna be one of those moments that we're going to remember where we sort of like two ships passing. You know what I mean? I can't I can't quite get there with the all-star dressed as far as. Really the momentus towards passing. But I did love it. And I don't know how many people listening to the podcast. We'll of actually watch the show, but Jaanus was legitimately funny. Not just like athlete funny. Not like uncomfortable. Canned laughter. He was jabbing people, man. He went after LeBron for tampering. He told shack to call him superman. It was heaters. That's what I'm saying. Who wrote his jokes? I don't know. I'm really excited to have Janas actually in the mainstream. I saw a couple of people saying like Yoenis can be a star anywhere. And it doesn't matter that he's in Milwaukee. I think that's true. I do think that he is still flown more under the radar because he's playing in Milwaukee than he would have if he were almost anywhere else in the NBA. And which is only to say that I'm more excited when the rest of America finds out how awesome is both on on the court and off the court. And so they. Thank you for bringing that up. I wasn't gonna mention it. But I did really enjoy like my exact thought during the alster draft was like I just watch Jaanus give LeBron shit for the next two hours. Like, let's just keep this election show going and with that being said LeBron killed on the draft though. I mean, like K D AD of his team is tagged hearted. I mean, I appreciate you on his loyalty to Chris Middleton. But LeBron destroyed them in address. I do not agree with that whatsoever. Yana says and bead and Steph curry really those players that's all you need is going to win the game. So you mean seven foot centers I'm going to be any help in an all star format and Steph curry got locked up by LeBron Katie last year and the all star game. Those guys stepped it ever really bad all star game. Embiid was really good last year. Anyways, the books are setup. I do think it's very interesting Zach Lowe made the point initially that he was talking about a month or two ago on the Bill Bill Simmons podcast and was saying, you know, Philly is betting on talent. And upside being the most important thing when you get to may and the bucks are betting on fit and fit around Jaanus. And and miratec certainly fits that vision saying fit too often now, but no you're on it. I mean you throw in an extra beard, you know, like you've probably going to grow that playoff beard. It's just gonna take the cute story to the cutest story. Right. So what do we think do who's made the finals out of the east is is Milwaukee the favorite is Philly? Fo- fo- fo- Milwaukee. I don't see who beats them. They're unstoppable right now. I'm kidding. You thought I was serious for a second. 'cause you're tired. No. It's not that. I thought you were serious. It's just that like somehow you've become more pro books than I am. And it's it makes me uncomfortable. I've had some bucks fans take me to task for not being high enough on the bucks. Somebody somebody moved for me to be removed from the board of Janas Inc. To which I can look here's the deal. I'm a fan of Janas. I okay, I'm going to be active about the books, and I will be a sycophant. When it comes the honest, but I'm trying to keep it more, even keel with the walkie. But anyways with that let you continue rank your ranking favorites. Can we just all positive moment to hear how aunt you perfectly pronounce psycho fan? Nailed it. That was fantastic psycho fan for life. When it comes honest. You said Milwaukee Philly, and I don't like that framing to me. It's Milwaukee or Boston as the top tier in. The second tier is Philly in Toronto my crazy. You're not crazy. I do think that. Here's I think that Boston poses the greatest threat to Milwaukee. But I think that Philly could beat Boston with the amount of firepower. They now have whereas I think stylistically the Celtics can give the bucks the most trouble because they are able to target whether it's brook Lopez. They'll also go after miratec mercilessly. Whereas I think Boston and Philly that's will just be a war. And at some point like talent wins out. And that's what I would worry about. If I were Celtics fan. Interesting. A on the Toronto front. We should always start bouncing around some of these teams. I mean, you look at the gazelle move like how sick with the raptors be if they had two thousand sixteen Lowery Gosol and Butler. You know what I mean? And I'm trying to get over that mental hurdle. When I look at this, Marcus all move for Toronto. Because I feel like when I watch those guys you're just going to be sitting there thinking like man, it's really too bad. They're all not three years younger. You know what I mean? It's really too bad that we're watching kind of decayed version of these guys versus what they could have become and I just wonder was this a panic move from Masai with an eye towards quite Leonard's future. Like as is kind of pulling a big trigger just to do it to try to send a message to the guys that everybody should stay Bhatt in and this is still there year because I don't know I'm not as high Marcus is a lot of other people. I don't think that gap between him and Yona's Valance unis is really that wide your Toronto you're mentioning matchups in the playoffs. Like when push comes to shove, aren't they going small with the bucket center in the playoffs? Or do you think they're going to be able to try to keep Marcus hall in the court in the fourth quarter? And if they don't keep Marcus on the court house he going to handle that. I mean, this guy's been the man in Memphis for what twelve years straight, and all of a sudden he might get bench for smaller lineups when they need to go more versatile to me. That's just well, I think there there's some hidden risks without move. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. I suppose so I don't really anticipate him having trouble being benched because I think he's going to be really happy to be on a winning team that has a shot at the finals for the first time in his career. But I do think that you know, I think when you spin it forward and think about what the rafters really have in the playoffs and when they're going to be at their best. I was in -ticipant ING trying Siaka at the five and trying to go super small and fill the court with wings. And like, I just sold doesn't really move the needle very much. I think maybe it was strictly like Masai trying to give them an emotional lift because Valance wasn't gonna move the needle either. And the price was low and just sort of like see what you can get and see see what you have with Casale. He just he hasn't looked great. And maybe he'll look like a different player in a new situation. But, but yeah, I think that like the raptors I mean, we we both did when did you do it winters in? Loser's call today. No come on enjoy panted the winners and losers call I've been doing that. You're at greatly. And where you guys probably do these. I don't know. I did my own winners and losers thing and the raptors are clear losers right between this trade, which to me is like a lateral move. And almost kind of reeks of desperation. And also the everything that clippers did would just really freaked me out. If I were Toronto fan, or I should say if I were Toronto fan who hadn't already made peace with the idea that Kawhi Leonard is like ninety percent out the door on July. First that's another reason that this has been a tough week. And then you know, I really would have pushed hard to try and trade Kyle Lowry this week. And I don't know what offers were out there. Like if I were Masai I would have been moving heaven and earth to bring back Conley and not a soul or bring the both to Toronto. If that's what it took. And that deal, I guess never really got off the ground. But. Lowry's the weak link as far as I'm concerned. I'm with you on a lot of that. I think less the Toronto is huge losers and more that the clippers were really big time winners, and those two things are linked like you've mentioned, I just thought the clippers add a really master masterful. Retooling. It's probably going to cost them a playoff spot in the west, but not necessarily and. To be able to get all those picks, and how this sort of landing pad environment where now you can go out there and chase guys you can trade for chase guys. You're going to try to just sign out. Right. As free agents. I just think they're in a really nice spot, and they can be really really aggressive this summer. In terms of Toronto, though, there's some backfire potential to write let's say co why does leave as you're describing. And then if you're Marcus all you have to think pretty hard about opting into twenty four million. So imagine the raptors next year with cow Lowry who you've already sort of described as being a weak link Marcus who's a year older and on the books for twenty plus million dollars. You don't have a Dhillon. Right. You don't have Valance Eunice you've got role players in Siaka and Anobi who no longer have the superstar sort of look to in turn to because Leonard is not there, and you don't really have a ton of flexibility because you're paying all this money. That's pretty dark like that is your window being slammed shut in your face. Right. So isn't there a very realistic chance by like the second week of July? We're no longer talking about the raptors as a contender. Yeah. I would say it's more likely than not at this point. And I think that you know, I think that might surprise raptors fans more than it would surprise. Is raptors front office employees? And I would imagine that they entered the seizing knowing that was like a real real possibility. And look it as far as I can tell messiah has been trying to trade Lowery for at least the last year. And I think that Lowery understands that as well. And that counts for some of the friction we've seen there. And when I say, he's been bad been fine. He's just not good enough for them to go where they wanna go. And I would also like I said before he's not as good as he thinks he is. And that's that's the central problem. Just he's been so openly indifferent to Kawai the entire year. And that really kind of rubs me the wrong way. I have no investment in the rafters whatsoever. Could not there's torrent of find a team I care about less. But just as a as an objective. Observer I've just like come on Lowery. Like you're supposed to be like the franchise player. Cornerstone you've anchored this whole era and to just sort of give Kawai the cold shoulder the entire year, and the chemistry hasn't been there on the court either. It's just no not at all. It's not. It's a great point. It's a great point Lowery really is the anti Steph when it comes to this stuff. I don't know if you saw that Spurs game the other night where the warriors random off to coordinate Katie had that big. Meltdown post game. And we're going to get to that later in the lantern segment and you during that game Katie fell down Steph curry came running over during live action like fifteen feet out of his way to personally pick. Kevin Durant up off the ground with both of his arms. And obviously, he's a smaller guys getting Katie off the ground was like no light task. Yes. Just so that Katy who's like betting this move for these last couple of weeks would feel the love from Steph. Curry can we see Kyle Lowry doing that for Leonard or do they even talk when they pass each other in the law group? It's bad. Yeah. And it is it is very impressive the way Steph because as weird as it has gotten in Golden State Steph is always there too. We now sound like the light years guys just sort of like full aiding Steph curry live on the podcast, but he's just really good as a leader at as sort of a cornerstone who stabilizes everything and the was I going to say. I don't know. But I've let another beef to pick with you if that's okay, okay. On your winners losers. I believe you had Western Conference. He leads as losers, and that's a real subtle dig, and the, but go ahead and make the case why you think that is. Well, here's the thing. Okay. I'll actually let me pull up the section here. I'll just read it for people on the gonna read it live on the air. This'll be great radio. Cool guys. Just click my articles because the interest is going to read his for you. Growing up on the east coast. I've spent the better part of my adult life listening to Western Conference snobs drone on about the inferior already of proposing a bunch of playoff receding models that will never be approved and wouldn't be nearly as fun as these people think entities people. I now say as of Thursday afternoon the four best teams outside of Golden State all play in the Eastern Conference. The Knicks are looming next year ready to be the super team that LeBron couldn't build himself. The warriors will go twelve no on the way to the finals without breaking a sweat. And until then we're gonna watch Marvin Bagley and Brandon Ingram Duke it out for the final playoff spot in the Western Conference. Isn't it time to have the receding conversation? I mean, really this is getting embarrassing the league needs to intervene edit, Dan, I edited that lightly along the way. But that's where I stand. That's how I feel. I'll see I count. This is what I'm talking about. It's the beer goggles that go on. It's like the funhouse mirror of the Eastern Conference because they're so far behind the true talent that everything looks amazing. When you make these minor deals look at Tobias Harris non all star on a team. That's probably gonna make the lottery, Marcus all non all star team. That's going to make the lottery Niccolo miratec non all star team. That's well outside of the lottery yet these three guys are guys were propping up as like game changers. Who are going to help teams make it to the finals over so excited. Come on. Monte fifth best player. Okay. Same unmerited? She's not always not no one's bringing miratec chin to be like the superstar focal point of bucks trying to do. But they're going to be really good who am I missing on Philly? That's supposedly better than Tobias Harris. He's at least their fourth best player if not their third best player. I think it's Jimmy bowlers. Jimmy, non all star from a Western Conference team that it's not gonna make the playoffs too. So that kind of proves my point there. Here's the thing. Okay. In all seriousness. The Sixers went into oracle the other night and beat the the warriors. They beat them straight up. That's the only team that has legitimately kind of kicked Golden State's asked in the last six weeks. And and so I if they meet the finals, I mean, no doubt. I mean, that's a four. That's true. I think that the only outmatch they're outmatched for the five positions. Now, it's not even close. No, the only teams that actually this again, this is about the entire west. Versus the entire east. There's no argument that the wars are superior, but it while we're on the subject, the only teams that actually have the warriors attention ever are the Sixers and the Celtics. I don't think they respect anyone else in the east, and they shouldn't because no one else in the east can hang with them. Maybe the ball take the west top four over the east top for without hesitation. I know you guys are real excited. This is your big holiday right now is the first time you guys have had this infusion of talent in a long time. But I'm watching the Lakers right now. And they just beat the Boston Celtics one twenty nine one twenty eight by a buzzer beater by regime Rondo in Boston. So French team in the Western Conference just walked into your tough building TD guard in the same building. That's probably gonna intimidated by Harris, and they walked out of there with the w Andrew. Wow, it's funny because I am recording here. And I we came onto record the podcast. I was very pissed off. Because I just wanted to watch the end of that Celtics Lakers game to see how. Depressing. The Lakers could get but lo and behold a little bit of life from LeBron cumby, that's really impressive. And now I am still kind of set that we had to record the podcast instead of watching the rest of that game. No, it's all good. I mean, it would've undercut your argument and confidence and everything it said about the offering. So it's probably better that you did watch it in. Meanwhile, they're right now as I'm watching it there panting to Celtics fans, which is look stunned. They're holding their heads in disbelief and does getting a real exciting. Walk off interview. With crystal Lowe, it's just a hilarious scene. You know, I do I'm glad the Lakers one night. Because I don't know if you saw Austin age, a member of the Celtics front office dunking on the Lakers front office after the Anthony Davis standoff, and the Celtics like, I don't know. We'll talk about that. I don't know how much the Celtics really one on Thursday. But the. Like, the balance of the universe. It requires that the Lakers would strike back. I can't have the Celtics getting too. You know? So thank God for the rage on Rondo game winner. I feel better about the world right now. Yeah. I mean, honestly, though, this is a small consolation for the Lakers being the biggest losers of the entire trade deadline, isn't it? Yes. I mean, we kind of buried the lead. Here we probably should have started with this. But they went scorched earth for two weeks trying to get Anthony Davis. Ultimately, they made the big offer that everybody was waiting for and essentially del Dem's laughed in their face and just didn't call them back and it played out in public in front of all their young players it played out with LeBron James sort of checking out of a game against the Pacers and narrowly being fully engaged. They're sitting by himself on the bench and other in the situation where they have to put the pieces back together. And they have to seriously wonder who are they going to be competing for next summer? We have no link between quite Leonard and the Lakers kyri. I don't buy that stuff for a second. Kevin durant? Kyrie are being courted very hard by the New York. Knicks. You've. Even guys I Chris Middleton or Kemba Walker who are going to be getting, you know, big time offers from their incumbent teams to buy his Harris has already gone to the Sixers if it's not Bradley Beal, and you're trying to tell me that maybe they can go a different direction with Bradley Beal who is it like who is this guy, and they're gonna try to go back and Anthony Davis. But which of their assets are going to be meaningfully better this summer than they were right now to me it felt like this was their window. Try to get a deal done. I'm not saying it's done for good. No matter what. But their life to Anthony Davis their path. Anthony Davis gets a lot trickier. Come summertime, not only trick. You look they're not getting Anthony Davis. Okay. I think we pretty clear about that little posted line cockiness. I like it. No. I don't want it to our own horn too much. And frankly, it was mostly me. But I think you, and I both have been pretty clear dating back to like six weeks ago detailing all the reasons trade wasn't going to happen. And look. We're not Lakers employee's. Okay. These people are paid to think about this shit all day long. And it wasn't that hard to understand. Why New Orleans was not going to want to do a deal with them. And to understand how long the odds really were and to proceed with caution. Okay. So for them to just clumsily bar gin, Lee canoe trade offer every day and expect to get Anthony Davis and expect to put in the event that they didn't get Anthony Davis expect everything to just be fine and normal like, I don't know, man. Sorry, like these people are supposed to be professionals. I don't know whether you blame magic whether you blame Pelinka whether you blame LeBron and Rich Paul like, this was just mismanaged every step of the way. And I think it's everyone involved should be embarrassed. And it's gonna really cost them because you're right. There aren't a lot of. Turnips out there. And I'm not sure what you do from here. Lots and lots of heaters in there. Andrew, I really appreciate it. You're bringing it to the big market teams this week. I don't mean to be overly harsh. I just think that like. The Lakers where they wanna be is. They wanna play for title. They wanna be at the upper echelon of the league. And. To to do that. And to occupy that territory like you do have to be a little bit smart and a little bit artful and clever, and that's what the clippers. Did they sought out the desperate team? They sought out the potential idiots in the room. The Sixers and were able to get two first round picks for Tobias Harris same deal with the Knicks. They were able to trade porzingas and get off forty million dollars worth of cap space. And then at the same time bring back to picks that they're going to be able to use a trade, and like the Lakers have just never been that clever. They weren't the last two weeks, and it's the type that they've played this so poorly that it's forced me to go back and look at how poorly they've played the last two years, and you can go back to them taking Lonzo number two, which a lot of people would have told you at the time was pretty questionable, and it's just it's upsetting because I do want the Lakers to be good. And they're just. Not a smart as I thought they were. Yeah. And look I made the case pretty stridently. Why New Orleans should try to get a trade here. And if the Lakers package what they didn't like was the best offer that they got from anybody. I understand why they did it. But I still think that they're losers on this two, right? Aren't they still hung up here? They're still hoping for Tatum months from now there's still no guarantee they're going to get this great package. And now it's awkward dance with Anthony Davis where like, I guess, congratulations. Pelicans for at least cashing in a bunch of second round picks. I do think that was a smart move around the edges, but they didn't solve anything. They just punted into the summer and the good thing for them. The main difference between the pelicans and the Lakers here is the pelicans can now go back and hide in irrelevance. Right. No one's gonna care about them until June like for real all of them from the owner on down. Like, how often do we talk about gale Benson until three weeks ago? Never, you know, and we're not going to mention her name again until June or July. The Lakers, though, are do not have the luxury. Of hiding from this drama from being able to sort of duck from expectations. I mean to me LeBron is now facing more pressure here over the next couple of months than at any time since he won that title in two thousand sixteen because not only does he have to get them into the playoffs. Otherwise, that's a huge embarrassment. Not only does he have to pull this group together to sort of save his reputation as a leader and kind of clean up the mess that all these parties who were involved kind of busting up the locker room where there was magic rich. Lebron rob Pelinka all those guys. I mean, it's on LeBron to fix that. Those other guys can't fix it. But he's also in a fight to stay as the best player in the league. Isn't he I mean, isn't there a real chance at after this season that titles no longer going to be his unless he makes the playoffs and really make some noise there as well. So on top of all that he still competing for these free agents. And if I'm a free agent, and I'm looking at the Lakers. They don't make the playoffs there a lottery team again and everybody else's passing. On playing with LeBron. Why do I wanna go play with? Lebron don't all these other people know something else that I don't. So those are serious questions serious pressures. And I think LeBron made a comment the other night of oh, I've got nothing left to prove you know, that may be true. But he's got a lot at stake here. And I think the next two months are going to be very telling there's no question. The next two months going to be one of the more fascinating stretches of the last four or five years. Lebron? I have no idea how he's gonna play. It. The last week has not been particularly encouraging granted did not get to see the second half of tonight's Celtics game when I'm sure he was super human and amazing. But I all of those concerns make sense to me. And particularly the free agent side when you were talking I was thinking, you know, man, like bronze got dispatched some clutch sports emissaries to Toronto and break bread with uncle Dennis. Because it's like if you're not getting you're not gonna. Kyrie. You're just not. And it's like all right. Maybe Kawai maybe try to steal clay and hope that Golden State is stupid enough to low ball in. But if Kevin Durant leaving which sounds increasingly likely, they're not gonna not pay clay. And then like, I don't know what you do. And so it does leave the Lakers in a really tricky spot. And here's the one thing that I would add is New Orleans. I think that they were really smart to turn down that Lakers package, the Lakers package just isn't very good unless you're really in on grow, which I love I really do think Ingram is pretty good and takes more heat than he deserves. But he's not some someone that I would feel comfortable building a new era around, and you know, people kept talking about like the Lakers. They did put into first round picks or they put in three first round picks. Like if you're trading Anthony Davis to to a team that's going to that already has. Lebron those pits are going to be pretty bad like next to worthless. Okay. You're getting like the twenty fifth to thirtieth pick in the draft. So adding more worthless picks to the deal shouldn't really change things for New Orleans. And I think that's where they ultimately came down. Look, we don't think lonzo's very good. We don't think Ingram's, very good. Both. These guys are going to be due for extensions in the not too distant future. And we don't necessarily want to pay them that much, and I don't think that they're losers because I think they're gonna get at worst a pretty good deal from Boston. And that they could also turn around and get a godfather offer from the Knicks in mid June, depending on how the lottery shakes out. And I think that that possibility is is why I would have felt comfortable turning down L A because worst case scenario they're going to be able to to have the Celtics Knicks bidding against each other in June. I guess there's also a real chance that those offers aren't really that. Great. And I still Boston. I don't wanna trade Tatum. You know, I still don't I mean, I'd I'd rather have him locked in on the contract that he'd be on have in for the next seven eight years. And so if he's not in the picture and age did do a pretty masterful job of like flirting with that. But not committing to it. There's a chance that the pelicans wind up still after all this waiting not getting that impressive of package. I I don't know that they're going to do that much worse than what the Lakers were offering this week because what the Lakers were offering this week was basically a bunch of C-plus starters. So that you can go finish at best in seventh place in three or four years when all those guys mature. So if that's the alternative I'd rather take my chances in June. To be honest. The whole Anthony Davis nonsense was worth it. Just to hear you accurately. Appraise Brandon Ingram. It too