35 Burst results for "Titans"
This Week in Tech
Computer mouse co-inventor William English dies at 91
"I think I should probably mentioned before we wrap up the passing of Bill English. he was ninety one years old. You may not know the name, but he built the first computer mouse stuggling Bart his colleague at the Stanford Research Institute Sri came up with the idea. Angle Burt was a fellow engineer they made. The mouse he helped put on the demo the what was it called the demo to end. All Demos. Where we saw for the first time, a mouse graphical user interface windows. Doug Engelberg I had the pleasure of interviewing at on the screen savers twenty years ago passed away in twenty thirteen. He brought that original mouse, which is just a big wooden box with rollers and stuff But very cool. So the mother of all Demos, which is December ninth nine, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, eight. Where we for the first time, saw the computing that we would all be using eventually. Bill English one of the creators. passed away at the age of ninety one
This Week in Tech
Microsoft says it is still talking with Trump about buying TikTok from its Chinese owner
"Microsoft just released a blog and their site that says Microsoft continue discussions on potential tiktok purchase in the US following a conversation between Microsoft CEO and the President Microsoft is prepared to continue discussions explorer per just Oh. Oh so I would like maybe you should talk to them again. Don't. Talk about mixed nutty mixed signals been a long weekend for TIKTOK and Microsoft. So the president called and said such go ahead by. Something like that. There was a great piece in the Wall Street Journal saying does Microsoft WanNa get in this mess? I mean that's honest. The question. I. Can't imagine that Microsoft. I think the most notable examples that it was a it wasn't a Microsoft wasn't one of the four companies at the hearing on. Wednesday. In, large part because they haven't been in the public eye and having one of the most popular social media platforms right now, it is definitely going to put them in the public eye in a way they haven't been for two decades. My
Bloomberg Daybreak: Asia
Victoria declares state of disaster after spike in cases
"Virus threat. Australia's Victoria State has again Titan. It's locked down after no signs of abating. Three weeks after
This Week in Tech
Trump wants to ban Tik Tok
"Actually let's talk a little bit about Tick Tock today I performed this morning. An Act of rebellion. I downloaded installation talk on my iphone because who knows how much longer I'll be able to do it it's very confusing I don't know what's going on. Tick Tock, which is owned by the Chinese company Bite Dance Safest that committee. Or foreign investment in the United. States apparently is investigating I. Think they actually issued a ruling saying that like, wow away tick tock was a threat to the United States One of the ways tiktok became really big as by acquiring a couple years ago musically, which is really I think from what I see on. tiktok kind of the backbone of what Tick Tock is these days, which is lip synching or acting or dancing to an original track It's it's very entertaining. It's a it's probably the most engaging social network out there. But apparently, it's a threat to our way of life. On Friday the president on Air Force One. said that he was about to ban it as soon as yesterday. From the United States I'm not sure under what law safest can do it I think. But I don't know if the president can by executive order banning application. then for the last week Microsoft Been. Negotiating to buy the American rights to talk to kind of create a tick tick Tock America that would be separate from the Chinese bite. Dance. TIKTOK. But then the president says I'M GONNA ban it but I don't want anybody to buy it. So, micro-. Microsoft said. Threw their hands off and said figure it out and there. They didn't end the conversation with bite dance. Apparently, they were fairly close but they're not forwarding it until they find out what happens I'm GonNa make a prediction. Nothing is going to happen except now people are going to download and use TIKTOK. Brianna is tick tock a threat to national security. It's not a unique threat to national security. We need to have a conversation about the kinds of information social media APPS are able to download from our phones. We all remember the scandals of facebook on android downloading your tire phone list gang everyone you've ever called. We need to have a conversation about that, but there's there's really no evidence that what Tiktok is pulling is any greater than what you know facebook instagram these other social media sites are. Pulling so far. So we need a wider discussion about that. How's it just want to say I wish I could tell you this was just trump in the Republicans that would make me very happy. My heart broke today to see Chuck Schumer on the Sunday morning shows advocating the same thing tech talk. So you know it's it is we need to have a conversation about national security and the amount of information were giving up but it's I think. To just focus on TIKTOK. Sign of. Phobia. Or Zena Phobia Paris, you seem like a Tiktok user. I that's only because you're younger than. I. Did recently re downloaded when this whole. Wanted to make sure that I had it. I'm sure is a common response. I agree with everything the Brown said in the sense that I don't know I've been particularly disturbed by. The reactions to take talks, data collection both from the left and right and just. Experts in the tech field generally over the past couple of months because it is definitely coming from a place of seeing phobia. I mean, we have so many different. American. Made APPS that. Do many of the same things I mean one thing that I've seen noted quite often as to talk has the ability to see what you've. You know copied near Clipboard when guests so do most of the apps you have on your phone. Is Operatives. It's not a tiktok specific problem. This came up because of Iowa's fourteen, which is in public Beta now so people are suddenly using it and dozens of applications. I. Think must be a library that they all subscribe to infect somebody a couple of weeks ago. Somebody told me that it was. Ad Library I use of what a clearly noninvasive program from panic software Call Code editor, which lets me log into my Server. with SSh and and edit files and things like that and it was. I got the same thing that you get on Iowa's fourteen O, coders looking clipboard every time I typed to character. Now I don't think coded only panic software famous for an FTP program and this H. Program is at spying on me obviously, they're not. they're using the same code library. So it's a, it's a, it's a bug. That's what Lincoln Microsoft's linked in said as well. So. I think it's also just one of those things where if you're building an APP especially in. The Tom I. Don't know there was a time when absence of for being built were there wasn't this conversation about security and privacy. Why would map designers not take the position of? Yeah. All the things maybe we'll need that information talk said quite credibly. We're just looking to see if you put a url on your clipboard so we can pasted in. That seems credible I. Don't know if you need to do it every single time I type of character that seems like more that book I can tell you firsthand from developing an Iowa it's often easiest just to get it submitted to the APP store to take a bunch of permissions and It's just it's like you're trying to debugging in. Store, to accept it is just quirky. I can't tell you how many times I in other APP developers have. Just it's a very, very quirky system. So I, think this is just in Beta. I think it's really important to point out as far as the impetus for this I personally do not think it's a coincidence that tiktok was widely credited for disrupting trump's Tulsa rally a couple of weeks ago and Sarah Cooper is so famous for she's making five star she's she's amazing and those videos are brutal to trump and I I don't. That's a coincidence. She does trump limps licks lip sync. And I was talking to a friend said you know is the trump on TV I can't understand what he's saying but then I watched Cooper and that makes sense Sarah ads expressions and Gestures and all kinds of makes sense all of us and so I don't think the president should be so quick to to not like Sarah purchase he's adding context Might have something to do with it certainly in his mind because we know. You know. I don't know what he's going to do to Cape Pop stands because they were the other the other group that apparently figured out that you could register took on trump's team has got to be wise enough to know you can't take on the capons stands. Being. The capon stands the United States would crumble. Yes. That would be it would be over right. You just can't win against the K pop stands So. They were both advocating people sign up for the Tulsa Rally and not not show and Honestly the fault lies with Brad Par Scout trump's former campaign manager and his campaign team for believing all those registrations and building a giant outdoor stage. Giant parking lot so that the millions of people who are going to be coming because they all registered would have somewhere to be, and then I loved. Well, I shouldn't say that that sounds partisan was interesting to see the one person with the baby stroller in that giant area and the rest of the arena half full or third full So I could see why he might be a little angry about that. Is there. No, Matt. And I'm not putting you in the position of speaking for the government I want to say that in fact, we should have said that. That Nazi for the. Federal government but you also having worked Akiko Google you understand how you know a little bit about how this stuff works the the there's not any proof that while way for instance, has ever done anything. Particularly Evil they've done some commercial espionage apparently, but nothing could particularly evil but there's the potential if they run the entire five G. Network that at some point, they could inject malicious software to the network or shut it down. Is What could Even even sounds stupid asking it. What could take time do? It's the forbidden APP. If you think about it if you don't have it on your phone, it could disappear at any time. No I think it's it's less about that although you do see companies like Amazon saying, Hey, on your work phone or work device please don't install. And they did it. Because they realize Oh we do business with these guys. Let's not this them off but wells Fargo did that I think the Department of Defense I don't know about you sds, but it's reasonable if you've got a company phone. Probably shouldn't have facebook or instagram on it either you right? Yeah. I keep my twitter and all that stuff very far away from work phone. It's my it's my personal account, but you know it's I can understand why people want to have just a a sense of okay. Let's be careful. Let's see what's going on and then You know just making sure that you can depend on the. Tools all the way down reflections on trusting trust. You can put things into a compiler, which then you can remove it from the source code and turns out that thing can stay in the compiler for years and years and years. So you know you don't WanNa be load bearing on any particular technology that you can't quite vouch for his guesses what people are thinking, what would be the legal? How could a president ban an APP in the United States I was thinking about this in the one thing the United States government is very effective at is We we we went after Isis in I sell at a very effective way instead of this Ip address to a recruitment site you can't access it. So my my guess would be the executive order would basically grafter the ISP's and say you can't go to this particular ISP but think about that I know of VPN products is sponsor show sponsored mind and to know how few seconds would take the average teenager together VPN account to just keep their tiktok going. Yesterday I downloaded the tiktok cap the first video that came up credit account 'cause I forgot my previous password was a if Tiktok it's banned. Here's how to get around it. You don't Vpn you can go into the settings, your phone, change your country of origin to Canada and then You're great. Exactly I mean it's not enforceable basically So I mean one thing Leo I think. Matt and I would probably agree that we do need to. I don't know if it's more oversight from the point of sale like on the APP store or Google play I I don't know if it's kind of an External Code audit policy for these kinds of APPs on their own by countries I. Think we agree we we need more oversight and we need to make sure all of these are not stealing data from people and just to get people very brief history lesson you know Edward Snowden had some very serious allegations about our own spying agencies using. Facebook to gather intelligence on people all around the world there's evidence for that. There's no hard evidence at this point the Tiktok is doing any of this. So if we're serious about doing this, the answer isn't to further balkanize the United States from the rest of the world the answers to form coalitions with other countries say look if you're going to operate here in, you know if you're gonNA have the software operating in our country here, the rule you have to follow you can't just arbitrarily download people's Phone books, there's going to be You know civil fights. That's clearly the way to go is got to be bigger than just tiktok. I'm just looking at Tick Tock on my iphone. It has access to my photos because I gave it access to my photo so I could put a profile picture on there. it gives me notifications I could turn that off. That's that's a push though that's not a poll. Background APP refresh means it can run in the background and cellular data doesn't ask for. location data doesn't ask for I mean facebook asks for ten times more. That's why I don't have it on my phone. I. mean the worst thing Tiktok does is waste millions of hours a productivity, and maybe that's a recent ban I don't know. But I, just I don't understand how it could be used. If it's not getting location permissions, how could it be used maliciously and I think it is getting location position. I know that I've know anecdotally at least from a couple of friends whenever they let's say go to Connecticut to visit family or something they will suddenly get Connecticut. Themed Tiktok content or something similar. Okay. that could just be from. Connection you can get that from the IP address so they could get a Geo location through IP address without asking APP without telling apple that they're doing that that would make sense. Okay. So they're getting them. Every cannon probably, I hate to say it probably does do that.
This Week in Tech
Microsoft to 'move quickly' on TikTok deal following Trump talks
"The last week Microsoft Been. Negotiating to buy the American rights to talk to kind of create a tick tick Tock America that would be separate from the Chinese bite. Dance. TIKTOK. But then the president says I'M GONNA ban it but I don't want anybody to buy it. So, micro-. Microsoft said. Threw their hands off and said figure it out and there. They didn't end the conversation with bite dance. Apparently, they were fairly close but they're not forwarding it until they find out what happens I'm GonNa make a prediction. Nothing is going to happen except now people are going to download and use TIKTOK. Brianna is tick tock a threat to national security. It's not a unique threat to national security. We need to have a conversation about the kinds of information social media APPS are able to download from our phones. We all remember the scandals of facebook on android downloading your tire phone list gang everyone you've ever called. We need to have a conversation about that, but there's there's really no evidence that what Tiktok is pulling is any greater than what you know facebook instagram these other social media sites are. Pulling so far. So we need a wider discussion about that. How's it just want to say I wish I could tell you this was just trump in the Republicans that would make me very happy. My heart broke today to see Chuck Schumer on the Sunday morning shows advocating the same thing tech talk. So you know it's it is we need to have a conversation about national security and the amount of information were giving up but it's I think. To just focus on TIKTOK. Sign of. Phobia. Or Zena Phobia Paris, you seem like a Tiktok user. I that's only because you're younger than. I. Did recently re downloaded when this whole. Wanted to make sure that I had it. I'm sure is a common response. I agree with everything the Brown said in the sense that I don't know I've been particularly disturbed by. The reactions to take talks, data collection both from the left and right and just. Experts in the tech field generally over the past couple of months because it is definitely coming from a place of seeing phobia. I mean, we have so many different. American. Made APPS that. Do many of the same things I mean one thing that I've seen noted quite often as to talk has the ability to see what you've. You know copied near Clipboard when guests so do most of the apps you have on your phone. Is Operatives. It's not a tiktok specific problem. This came up because of Iowa's fourteen, which is in public Beta now so people are suddenly using it and dozens of applications. I. Think must be a library that they all subscribe to infect somebody a couple of weeks ago. Somebody told me that it was. Ad Library I use of what a clearly noninvasive program from panic software Call Code editor, which lets me log into my Server. with SSh and and edit files and things like that and it was. I got the same thing that you get on Iowa's fourteen O, coders looking clipboard every time I typed to character. Now I don't think coded only panic software famous for an FTP program and this H. Program is at spying on me obviously, they're not. they're using the same code library. So it's a, it's a, it's a bug. That's what Lincoln Microsoft's linked in said as well. So. I think it's also just one of those things where if you're building an APP especially in. The Tom I. Don't know there was a time when absence of for being built were there wasn't this conversation about security and privacy. Why would map designers not take the position of? Yeah. All the things maybe we'll need that information talk said quite credibly. We're just looking to see if you put a url on your clipboard so we can pasted in. That seems credible I. Don't know if you need to do it every single time I type of character that seems like more that book I can tell you firsthand from developing an Iowa it's often easiest just to get it submitted to the APP store to take a bunch of permissions and It's just it's like you're trying to debugging in. Store, to accept it is just quirky. I can't tell you how many times I in other APP developers have. Just it's a very, very quirky system. So I, think this is just in Beta. I think it's really important to point out as far as the impetus for this I personally do not think it's a coincidence that tiktok was widely credited for disrupting trump's Tulsa rally a couple of weeks ago and Sarah Cooper is so famous for she's making five star she's she's amazing and those videos are brutal to trump and I I don't. That's a coincidence. She does trump limps licks lip sync. And I was talking to a friend said you know is the trump on TV I can't understand what he's saying but then I watched Cooper and that makes sense Sarah ads expressions and Gestures and all kinds of makes sense all of us and so I don't think the president should be so quick to to not like Sarah purchase he's adding context Might have something to do with it certainly in his mind because we know. You know. I don't know what he's going to do to Cape Pop stands because they were the other the other group that apparently figured out that you could register took on trump's team has got to be wise enough to know you can't take on the capons stands. Being. The capon stands the United States would crumble. Yes. That would be it would be over
News, Traffic and Weather
Amazon, Apple and Facebook shares soar amid pandemic
"For the nation's big tech Titans, Amazon, Apple and Facebook all reported blowout numbers for the spring quarter, sending their shares sharply higher in the Friday session, and Apple not only announced the four for one stock split. It also surpassed state oil giant Saudi Aramco to become the world's most valuable traded company, a market valuation of $1.84 trillion. Meanwhile, various reports Friday said Microsoft is discussing a potential purchase of popular short video app Tic Tac.
The Vergecast
Big tech CEOs testify before Congress
"So, this hearing just going to say it, it was six hours of chaos. So. So many things like individual moments of pure chaos happened this hearing. But because every member of Congress was only given five minutes to ask the questions in and they moved on, no one could process the moments of cash. So here are some things that happened during this hearing. Jeff. bezos just started eating nuts on his call. That was just a thing that you started snacking for the first ninety minutes. It appears that basis had tech issues was operating in some kind of delay. So we didn't hear from him. They just answer any questions and they'd take a ten minute break Jeff. bezos could fix his computer. Amazing. Jim Jordan, who McKenna pointed out. On the show last week is always sort of chaos element. Try to talk over several members of Congress got yelled to put his mass back on floated. Just elaborate conspiracy theories. was when I say was chaos I. Don't know if there's any other way to describe it. I. Think that led a lot of people to think the hearing itself didn't accomplish its goals, but I think in many ways it did. But Kennedy you WanNa Kinda go through what the committee was trying to accomplish the themes they were pointed at in. How hearing played out, right. So okay. First off. Harkening back to last week I mentioned Jim. Jordan's mountain dew obsession. Definitely drink a handful those throughout the hearing I took notes in screen shots. So, I, called it. But regardless of their pores soda choices, there were a lot of lawmakers who definitely did their homework and I think that was really apparent throughout the entire hearing and when I look at. The picture that they tried to paint I think that became really clear in chairman Sicily's opening statements. So this is the guy who liked. And spearheaded the entire investigation from the beginning, and in those opening statements, he pointed out that yeah Apple Amazon Google facebook. There are different in a lot of ways and they exhibit anticompetitive behaviors potentially allegedly and a lot of different ways. But what they tried to pull together and was a story, and it's really hard to tell a story and five minute fragments. But what happened yesterday was Sicily. Ni, and a lot of the Democrats on the Committee wanted to point out that these companies they become bottlenecks for distribution whether that's information or just like APP stores marketplace's they control what gets distributed in how what was really key to the investigation was how? How they survey competitors. If you have so much control dominance over a market or a specific part of the tech industry, you have a lot of insight into your competitors and you can do a lot of dangerous things with that, and then lastly, after that dominance has gained, it's how they abuse it. Right? How they abuse it to make harder for small businesses in competitors and I think that's exactly what Cellini pointed out in the beginning and I think they did a poor job that storytelling throughout the process. But I think that's also our job. Right is to pull that evidence together and tell that story for them in a way that isn't like. Yes, no yelling at CEOS and like stopping them and I think by getting that in the evidentiary record doing all this questioning, I think they really did achieve their goal in the end. Yeah. I mean, I think the thing that happened sort of next to the hearing was that they released a bunch of documents from these one point, three, million documents of clutch. Over the past year, they released pretty targeted selection documents for every company showing some of this stuff, Casey, I wrote a story about. facebook. INSTAGRAM. My I'm going to frame this email or mark Zuckerberg. Literally one sentence, no period. The Andrew says I need to figure out. I'M GONNA buy instagram like I would love to just be in a place were sending that email like super casually like I got this thing to figure out and it's not like am I gonNa buy the model of the car. It's like instagram. I've been thinking of the text messages where so and so says that Mark Zuckerberg's didn't go destroy mode on instagram ever since they got that up. Case she this to Kevin and right that text was. Yes. Well, it was Kevin. System was talking to an investor and Kevin said to the investor. If we don't sell well, mark, go into destroy mode on us and the investor side probably. Of course, stray casual. So there's just a lot of documents and I think one of the functions of hearing was to get those documents into the official congressional record to make the CEO's account for them. That did not seem very successful to me. Is like a takeaway people should have from this hearing, right? No. I think a lot of people that go into these hearings are expecting like these big Gotcha moments and expecting like a lot of news and all this stuff. But it really, it wasn't oversight hearing. You know it wasn't. They didn't come. They came at this like in a report last earlier this week that they came out at as investigators. They didn't come at it to make a big show horse and pony show out of it, and yet I think the CEO's didn't. The record well enough to the extent that they could have. But there was definitely, I was expecting them to do a lot less evasion and I expected a lot less room probation with the documents, but it's just the process of a Congressional hearing. It's. It's hard to do that in a congressional hearing. But if you put those documents out there, you get the CEO's on the record a little bit who does excite this excites the FTC. J, and that's who can take this next and then it's also congress. You know they can't break up a tech company, but they can regulate going forward and it's those three key themes that I pointed out earlier that they could regulate. You know what I mean. They could legislate to forbid companies from surveying competitors and things like that, and that's where this goes. So the format of the hearing, every member and five minute chunks, it seemed very clear that the Democrats had some sort of coordinated evidentiary strategy, they would start and. And they would say, I, want to read this email to you. What did you mean by this email and then Jeff bezos would say something like I have. No idea is on works. I. Was real pattern that developed was basis really not doing or claiming he definitely knows claiming not really no way Wayne is under the thing they did or they would ask sooner Pichai about the very granular add deal google made by an ad product, and soon I, would say I'll get back to you, which is basically all responses. So the Democrats seemed like they were coordinated to move through their documents. The Republicans seem to be doing something else that also seem coordinated intentional, but what was their focus because that seemed clear split my takeaway from Jim Jordan who? We got into earlier, he he was interviewing. As if they were all Jack Dorsey. And as we talked about like, yeah, he invited Jack Dorsey to testify, but he doesn't sit on the antidote subcommittees. Anything. He says, it just doesn't matter. So it sounded to me as if he prepared questions Jack Dorsey and then it was like, oh, he's not coming I'll ask Tim Cook the same questions. Another completely crazy moment that happened just seen by and five minute chunks is that. Represented Sensenbrenner from Wisconsin Dear Sweet Wisconsin. Definitely. Asked Mark Zuckerberg why the Donald Junior was banned from twitter and mark. Zuckerberg was happening on twitter facebook and there was just like a moment of confused silence, and then he tried to move on and that just sort of floated by in the river of chaos to tell you how much chaos there was kneeling. When you started to tell that story, I thought you were going to tell the story about when Jim Jordan asked him cook if the famous one, thousand, nine, hundred, four, Apple Super Bowl, AD was actually about twenty twenty cancel culture, which is another thing that really happened. I think that's out of context. He didn't ask him. He said clearly, this is. That's definitely what Steve Jobs was thinking IBM is canceled culture and Apple's going to break it with hammer and Jeff. Bezos said that social media is a nuance destruction machine and all this crazy stuff from that. It was a wild will that that particular question when Jim Jordan asked, do you support the cancel culture mov, you could see the CEOS like. 'cause they went in order. He asks them all in order. So First Tim Cook just like basically muttered nothing. Here's like I don't. I support speech whatever. The iphone a keyboard like that was his answer. Sooner per child also, just like muttered, right? He's like Google has always supported free expression Zuckerberg like saw the opportunity and took it and the forces of liberalism I rising I, and then basis was like I cannot. I cannot do in like went for it, and that was just totally insane moment. But it also seems like the Republicans were intentional to try to create their own moments where they were yelling at CEOS about bias on platforms is obviously something cover a. At. You were paying a lot of attention that case you're paying a lot of attention to it. Do you think that was effective in creating because you know there's like a parallel conservative Universe Jim? Jordan was on Tucker. Carlson. Last night like was that effective or d think that the CEO's were able to sort of tamp down on interesting the Tucker Carlson pointed out that Google and other companies are all big donors to Jim Jordan another folks. So that is a weird side, but I think it was actually besides the moment where they mixed up twitter with facebook I. Think this was much more effective off. Off Topic yelling about technology than we usually see like are genuinely issues that like they are upset about that, they could point to largely around like cove nineteen misinformation and they could at least like pick those topics and stick to them rather than kind of asking vague questions about like, why is my phone listening to me? Well, they're definitely asked questions about why are my campaign emails getting filtered by G mail? Yes. I should. I should mention that they have really and they have all of these cases where they ask about extremely specific one off incidents that anyone who has used social media knows happens constantly. And, then turn them into a sinister pattern. But I think they managed to come off as sounding more like they understood what they were talking about the unusual. I think that was a real theme of the hearing, Casey. What did you think of this sort of bias side show that occurred? Well, I mean the the idea that conservative voices are being suppressed is foundational to the conservative movement and is behind the rise of conservative talk radio. It was behind the rise of Fox News. Now that social media exists, we have seen it in this new form, but it is sort of being presented as extra, sinister and worthy of. Some sort of legislative intervention what frustrates me about it is that much more than newspapers or or cable news like Mark Zuckerberg Dorsey. These people benefit hugely from having all possible voices on their platform. None of them is incentivized to drive conservatives off their platform. What they are incentivized to do is have rules that make the place safe and welcoming. So that people want to hang out there and so to the extent that there are issues on the platform, they've largely come because these platforms have rules. And you know you would think that a bunch of free marketeers would realize that the alternative to the system that they're so mad about would be creating a new system, but they don't seem at all interested in doing that. So I just sort of dismissed all of them as charlatans I actually thought it was interesting that the opposite track came up, which was the Stop Hey for profit campaign I kind of wasn't expecting that. The representative Raskin I believe asked facebook. Basically, why aren't you kicking more hate speech off. I forget who else asked like look is the point that you're so big. You don't care about advertiser boycotts I. Mean, you know it will here. Here is a fact that the number one complaint that facebook gets from its users, the thing that users. About. FACEBOOK is that it removes too much content and so if you're running the place, you do have to take these complaints seriously in a way. Right? It might not be you know that you shadow band conservative whatever that even means on social network in twenty twenty. But the fact that you're removing content is really upsetting people. So you can't dismiss that idea entirely, but I still don't feel like we're having that intellectually honest conversation about it. So this was definitely I feel like you can connect the you control distribution. We're GONNA show the abuses of power narrative. We got other. Democrats. With the you control distribution. You're banning conservatives right like I. Think what's Sensenbrenner Again, cups and conservatives are consumers to is that people don't realize that like fifty percent of the population in many ways. But facebook has like famous conservatives working its highest levels Kevin. We last week, we're talking about Kevin Roose keeps sharing the list. List of the most engaged content from crowd tangle. It's all conservative content, and that's so problematic for facebook that they're. They're pushing back with other metrics and graphs of their own, making the facts just aren't there, but it doesn't seem to be convincing. Brett Kevin is being asked to recuse himself from facebook case because he's like best friends with facebook I, AP I wrote a column almost two years ago. Now, arguing that conservatives were trying to redefine. Any conservative identified person having any unwanted outcome on a social network, right? So bias is your name was higher than mine in search results. Bias is used suggested that I follow a Democrat and not a Republican right, and if you take action on your policies that apply to everyone against me a conservative that is biased against conservatives, right. So and by the way I have to say this has been hugely successful because we've talked about it. How many minutes now and the longer that these discussions. Discussions. Go on. They just sort of refi people's minds. The idea that there really is a vast conspiracy to silence conservative speech because he's networks are so big millions of conservatives are having experiences like this every day, and now there is an ideology that is basically a religion for them to attach to, which is although Silicon Valley liberals are out to get. Reason I wanted to talk about the conservative side show, which in many ways was a circus is it feels like the notion that we should be punitive to the companies or mad at the company's. Bipartisan, right we were. We were not looking at a hearing where the Democrats were on the attack. Republicans are saying we love. Apple. We're looking at hearing where they were. Everyone was mad. There are a couple of exceptions to that. There were a couple of I think sensenbrenner and a few other folks were like look we want to be clear. Big is not bad. We just WANNA make sure we're not punishing you for your success, but you were like almost entirely, right? Yeah. I. Mean I. think that's it's important to. To capture that mood like Jeff Bezos Mark Zuckerberg, Tim, Cook soon. Darpa, try they usually get to finish whatever sentence they start saying. Right. They're not used to being interrupted. Their thoughts are usually like you know they get to live in complete sentences and people take them seriously here in five in intervals, they were interrupted almost every time they started speaking to be told that they were wrong that they were filibuster at one point Sicily said stop thinking is for the questions. We can just assume they're all good questions. They. Were getting yelled at and they're going yell that about a variety of things that were pretty specific. So you kind of in your kind of structure here. The first one was controlling distribution. What did you hear as a hearing went on the indicated to that? The committee had a case here? I think the apple's APP store is one thing you know charging thirty percent cuts on certain things is just controlling an APP store. It's the same thing with Amazon's marketplace. They can inherently in control what gets placed and what gets sold and you know if they want to play with search results on Amazon, they can do that, and then on facebook and Google, it's not just like products and software that's information. And it could be information when it's like Google. Google. Stealing yelps, texture views right in putting those in its little info boxes in search queries in facebook if facebook is just like an. Mation, distribution platform and. It can decide Algorithm Mickley. Knowingly. What people get to see this bution was very keen to the committee's hearing yesterday and they pointed out different aspects in which you know each company exhibited that kind of behavior. So the one that will you bring up apple? We wrote about this, say there's much emails. Apples document production is just one hundred and thirty pages of unrelated emails and whatever order see it's like scan through it. So there's a lot of little stories in there. There's one about right to repair and apple realizing it needed to repair. By watching PR people operate by reading their emails journalists. Very entertaining. They're like we had a break like here's our strategy. Here's we're GONNA. That's all in there. You can look at it, but there's a lot about the APP store itself and how they're going to use the mechanics of the APP store to control their platform, and it started at the beginning like the first emails in this production from twenty, ten there. From Phil, Schiller Steve Jobs saying, are we GONNA? Let Amazon Sell Books in the kindle store. Store, it felt like I saw an Amazon ad was hard to watch this hard to watch this ad where a person's reading a book on an iphone in the kindle APP in the pick up an android phone keep reading. He's like literally like it was hard to watch like Schiller's at home like pain what a customer is having an experience that good it really just. Heart and so he's like it was hard to watch. You fours Steve Jobs. They're like we gotta shut it down jobs is the bookstore will be the only bookstore on the APP. Store. That's the way it's going to be everyone's gotta used to it. We know that restricting payments will hurt other things, but that's what we're doing and they started there in two thousand ten and they pulled it out, and then that ladders up into everything that we've seen with, hey, ladders up into the analysis group showing up to. Apple, can pay them to say that there's independent study has revealed. Everybody has a thirty percent cut. It has landed up into Tim Cook, forwarding. He gets a letters from developers that are in this direction. It's like apples breaking my heart and he just like Ford's it. Tim, Cook forwards that email to filter credit eighty, just as thoughts like amazing like they are constantly thinking about the APP store as a mechanism of control for the platform in the leverage and other deals. So the other one was apple is this Amazon one which I have very mixed feelings on saying that this is bad or legal I'm curious for all of your thoughts famously. Did, not have the prime video APP on the Apple TV and all these other places apple, Amazon came to a deal. There's an entire presentation in this production like the slide deck of how the deal is going to work. Apple got to be the preferred seller of its own product. So third parties cancel. Apple. Products, Amazon pages, they got. They have a custom by flow. They've custom product pages, all the stuff in return. Amazon got a lower commission on the APP store and gets to Selatan products which no. No like you can rent a movie from the Amazon APP on the Apple TV, no one else gets to it in one world. This is just pure platform collision, right? Apple cut VIP deal for big companies because it wanted something and you could say this is legal in another world. It's like this is how deals work apple something valuable. Amazon s something valuable and they came to a conclusion wherever made more money and quite frankly the consumer experience platform has got better. How do you read that? Casey? That is good and fair analysis of it. I. Think I did read slightly more scandalous. Tones into it in part because apple would never acknowledge that some developers are more important to it than others even though if you assume that that's true, I think maybe one of the things that's frustrating about it is there is no transparency accountability around which developers get sweetheart deals is that once you hit a certain threshold of revenue will cut your price. Why couldn't they extend that deal to everyone right? Or is it just if we withhold something that seems particularly valuable, we can eventually drag you to the table. Table, which is sort of what seems like happened here. I think in all cases, what I'm always looking for is the accountability, right like and some sense of of equitable treatment of developers and I understand the guys are always going to get the best treatment, but it can that be publicly visible. Can it be acknowledged and there'd be routes for others to achieve that same level of success and treatment, and that I'll just seems missing here. Did you buy Tim Co? He said it twice. It was obviously A. Glimmer, of sympathy for all four CEOS. There is a lot of reporting that they had spent months preparing for this hearing like being grilled there, they'd hire outside law firms. They. Practiced they all clearly had soundbites memorized in none of them. Got To say him because it kept getting interrupted. Tim Cook had this one where he is like if we're the gatekeepers, the gates are open wider than ever. We've gone from five hundred. APPS to one point seven, he said like. A whole speech. and. The thing is there's fierce competition for developers. They don't like our store can do for android the windows. For xbox and PS. Four. Which I was like the idea that adobe is going to be like we don't want to be on the IPAD. Here's PS. Four Photoshop is insanity to me. I'm going to build a spreadsheet. APP. For the five. That's how frustrated with Tim Cook. To that ring. True to you I. Mean, there's no, it does not ring true. There is a, there is a duopoly. In the United States when it comes to smartphones, iphones have majority share in the United States and you can't say, well, you know there's there's a rogue fork of android in Malaysia that you could go develop for if you really wanted to and have that come across as a credible argument to Americans. Right it is. Natural for any monopolist to spend most of its time, arguing that it is much smaller and much less consequential as as you think it is and they're essentially always asking you to ignore what is in front of your face, which is that they are the giant. They are in control. What they say goes, and it doesn't matter which small businesses get hurt along the. The. Way I would point out that the contact and we're gonNA talk about earnings eventually. But the context for that is apple had its biggest third quarter ever this month, their revenues went up eleven percent year over year, they're making obviously making billions of dollars in their services revenue, which is a lot of the narrative around the APP stores increasing that services line. Also went up. I think it was thirteen billion. So you're right. They're very big in their earnings the day after the hearing did nothing. To reduce that impression. I want to switch to Amazon a little bit McKenna. You really focused Amazon was basis first time up there. They came at him a lot about marketplace. How did you think that went I think it went pretty good. I. Think. John Paul specifically was just like killer her questions with breakout star. Yeah. She was just like killer and she's the representative for. SEATTLE. So this is where Amazon is right. So she just like killed it and. And I think there were a couple of instances in the documents and in questioning yesterday that really pulled important things out there was like testimony from one bookseller who was like, yeah. We just can't sell a category of books and we don't know why Amazon doesn't let us do that just like testimony like that or even when it comes to like acquisitions, the ring acquisition especially, I wrote about that today through the documents and how. They said, this is for market position. This is a for technology, your talent or anything. We just bought this and that's something that base said again, yesterday he was just very clear. It's like, yeah, we do buy things market position, which is like so insane just here like the richest person in the world. But like, yeah, we're buying market position. It's just what happens. That's another one I have mixed feelings right, and by the way, people should read McKenna story because those documents have just a very funny breakdown like the pros and cons of buying. Buying ring in many of the cons like what if this turns into nest, which if you're just the verge cast listeners like it's just like the Keyword Bingo, but it's fine to say, we're buying market position like this isn't the best product out there, but it's the category of video. doorbells is not huge, right? So to by the the market leader in video doorbells is maybe the most rational use of the money. What is the problem that you think the committee was trying to show an address sense of we're just going to market position. Pointing out, they can just do whatever they want and how casual it is, and there really isn't. It's really funny to read an email like that, and we could buy it or we could just copy it or are. We could just watch. You know that was one of the emails that base from someone. Those are just three options you know and it's like just pick and choose you know. Pointed out like a lot. Just that email itself really pointed out just how easy it is for them. They used a lot of that time history to talk about copycat behaviors and to talk about just like you know buying up competitors and it just seeing that all in one little e mail having to do with the ring was like really i. think it was really kind of I opening and especially like useful for the committee. So Amazon got hit a lot for the data collection side of it of copying competitors. bezos did not seem to have great answers there. Right. So that's the. The thing they got in trouble with this. There is that Wall Street. Journal article from like April where employees were literally like, yeah. We dip into data and we use that to guide our own private label products and everybody was like Whoa and Amazon basins. Yesterday said, well, we do have a policy that bans that but giant pointed out yesterday. It's like, okay. So what's your enforcement look like you can have the policy, but like if you don't enforce it, then it's like meaningless. And then yesterday I. Think Paul was like, can you give me a yes or no answer? Do you dip into data and he's like I can't I can't give you. Yes or no, and we're just like we're looking into it. The story had anonymous sources. So that isn't very helpful to us. You know what I mean. So that was one of the main things and that Wall Street Journal article and I think it's the same kind of examples in the committee's documents. They point out specific examples like car trunk, organizers of all things. It's like weird little products like Amazon's like this is a little hot. Maybe we should do that. So I, I think. I, think they made a good case yesterday. Yesterday on that. Yeah. I mean bezos brought up that Wall Street Journal, Article himself twice, and he was like, well, your policy against it. But I can't guarantee never happened. Then there is a strange just didn't come across clear I. Think I know what the committee was trying to get at their like US aggregate seller data when there's only three sellers and then only to sellers? Yes, I. Think what they're getting at is when you're down to the aggregate data of two companies, you heard effectively looking at individual data. What is the problem? They're like the I get what you're doing. You're just reducing the denominator to get to one, but like it, why is that particular problem? Right? Well, none of these. Dipping into individual seller data and looking at aggregate data. That's not a legal. There is no law. This is all voluntary of Amazon. So they have a voluntary policy where like we can't do individual seller data, but they say nothing against aggregate and aggregate what you're getting at eight. Here you is. Does the same thing if it's just like some goofy little product they. They bring up pop stock. It's all the time before pop tops in a moment. Right? There's only like one pop. So company like you know pop soggy, it was kind of an innovative product. It's like well, if there's only two of them and use the aggregate data, you you you have everything you need to know you know about that product line looking aggregate. If that's what you decide to qualify as do you as you're looking through the other Amazon documents and other stuff. So anything jump out at you is something the committee was trying to prove or get at. The questioning seemed very focused on. Like are you using the state at a copy products? Are you buying things? You shouldn't buy. There's one question which I did not understand why came up about DMC. Take downs on twitch and Jeff as just had this look of panic in his eyes. He's like I don't know man I bought Wedge because my kids want to. Do something like that was like the side show stuff, but the real focus here, it just seemed like it was definitely in the marketplace, right? Amazon, everyone came at Amazon for the marketplace. That's what everybody knows him as like they have all these little sides. They got rain. They got Alexa Alexa was one thing too. That was kind of interesting. It's like. Are you buying things like ring to put Alexa into and dislike expand your like Titan Ism as like an Internet Internet connected home. Thing and make that more closed off and walled gardening. That was one thing. But no, it was just focusing on how much power they have to kind of change. What happens in the marketplace to kind of decide what companies in what products are able to come up on the first page of results. You know that's also something that they dug into Google and in something that one of those like themes that kind of ties everything together. We should say they all spend a lot of time talking about counterfeit goods, and why is it Amazon removed? Fake stuff from the platform and how much is it profiting off of you know selling pick rolexes? Is it surprising? The whole foods didn't show up at all they're. Like that is a really massive thing. Amazon owns that. Is it moving into a huge new product category? I think whole foods is not an online marketplace, which was the title of the hearing, not that that restricted anybody from doing anything except that, one of the things Amazon says is we have lots of competition from offline marketplaces, right? Brought up kroger a lot I mean, this is the case he's point. They all made. It seem like they were beset at any moment. They could be crushed by the likes of stop and Shop Right? Like I think the point though was really on the. Digital. Experience Consumers have and like I, don't know Ho-. Foods fits. Into that narrative, especially, because it is itself not dominant like they bought it because you needed to grow in their. Good at that at my question for you on the Amazon stuff was when you think about, we talk about two thirty a lot right like you and I in particular spent a lot time to thirty, which regulates with the platform can do with content. There's not really an equivalent of two thirty for goods on store. Right like there's some case is out there saying like you're liable for what what happens on your online store page, but Amazon doesn't have that like second order of like Messi nece around it that twitter and facebook to with two thirty, I. Mean, it gets invoked a lot for marketplace's, but it's way messier. Well, I just wanted to like this question at counterfeits question about ranking the store like they are even more free than any twitter is to to sort tweets algorithm. Algorithm clear to modern like it just their store. Do you think that they're like that Algorithm transparency? Your wire things ranked. Did you catch a sense that that's where the regulation is GonNa go. So much of the conversation around Amazon really felt like it was individuals sellers being wronged for reasons of Amazon being unresponsive or stealing. It's data. So I don't know it didn't. It didn't seem like a really big focus of the hearing, but it is a huge deal. Yeah. The, digital marketplace frame of this, which is where we have talked to. Cellini. That's where he's going right like facebook and Google very digital. They have like they don't do physical goods. Really. Apple is the APP store. It's all digital goods. Amazon is the one where it's. Front to a lot of physical things, and that is the only place where I can see this regulation needing to make some sort of like major meaningful distinction in I. Didn't see it in the hearing, but I was curious of you caught a glimmer of it. I'm not positive that they have to make a huge distinction there like depending on what they come up with because. So much of this is about their companies and whatever product they produced. The issue is more or less whether or not they're being surveilled and unfairly by targeted and crushed by that data surveillance. All right. We have gone for forty minutes. We should take a quick break. I said I wasn't going to go by company and it happens. So we should come back and talk with facebook Ango. We'll be right back. This is advertiser content. When I say utopia what comes to mind. Birds Chirping lush natural beauty dialed up and vibrant technicolor. Is it within reach. Your world world. World. explained. You are an essential part of the perfect social body. Every Body Matt Place. Everybody happy now while the peacock original series, brave new world takes place in a scientific futuristic utopia. A concept is nothing new Sir Thomas more. I introduced the theory five hundred years ago. 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These are really difficult crazy stressful times, and if you're trying to sort of cope, it could be helpful to find something that gets beyond like doom scrolling and like obsessive worried. But digs into what is really going on underneath the surface, and that's what the weeds is all about I. Matthew Yglesias. Weeds podcast here on the box meeting podcast network. This is podcast for people who really want to understand the policy debates and policy issues that shaping our world. We've seen now more than ever like how relevant policy is to our actual lives, but so much in the news isn't focused on really understanding and explaining detail way if that sounds good to you, join us for the weeds, every Tuesday and Friday to find out what's going on why matters and what we can do about it. You could download the weeds on apple spotify or wherever else you get your podcasts. Tracy. When it comes to facebook I turn to you. FACEBOOK is patience consumer of startups as what we've learned. Yeah. But you said something to me yesterday was interesting, which is everyone else's problems are forward looking and it feels like facebook's problems are actually in the past break for people explain what you mean. Yeah. So when Congress is looking at any trust with respect to these four companies for three of them, it's It's sort of about the marketplaces that their operating right now with facebook, the question is much more about should we have allowed it to buy serum? Should we have allowed it to buy WHATSAPP and most of the antitrust conversation that was around facebook yesterday was all about that. What did Mark Zuckerberg know about Instagram, and when did he know it? We wrote a story based on some documents that the house released yesterday. In which facebook has clearly identified instagram as a competitor. In at least some ways and wants to go after it and knock it off the table, and so that's kind of where the focuses their facebook and Burke did get a lot of other questions yesterday, but it tended to be much more about content moderation and things that don't have a lot to do with antitrust. So there was weird section where they asked the face. Face Research APP in the novel, Vpn? Any kind of got lost well, explain what happened and I'm curious reactions. Yeah. So facebook has a bunch of nifty tech tools to figure out what's trending which APPs or the kids using, and so that can essentially have an early warning system if it needs to consider acquiring something or more likely in these days, go out clone it. and. So Zuckerberg was asked about the way that the company uses these systems and if they are anti competitive I, think you know traditional antitrust law probably would not say copying an APP feature is anti competitive, but could lobby written in the future about it shirt I. Think the one that caught me was I mean, this is what I'm. McKenna's points from earlier is like one of the themes here is, are you so dominant that you can collect data that's unfair and then use that to crush or killer competitors, and definitely bought the Inaba VPN to do it. That's true. Now, when I've asked executives at facebook about this, what they'll say is they don't get surprised anymore. When you have three point, one billion people using your apps around the world. You know what links they're sharing, you know what they're talking about. And so you're not going to need some kind of specialized tool to know that WHATSAPP is really taking off. Right. So they would argue that, yes, these tools were useful to them, but you know at their scale, they know what's popular now, which doesn't really seem like addresses, the problem is reached. The fact that we're so big that we're all knowing is maybe not the defense that they sometimes presented as so here's what I didn't get. I thought, Zuckerberg I want to the instagram. What's about who's issues, but on the facebook research front, the data front, they him about this APP facebook research, which you were giving to teens. They were deploying with an enterprise certificate that story broke apple revoke the certificate, and all of facebook's internal APPs went dark, and this is a scandal story after story about it, they went on for two days. So I can I, don't recall that APP? Just how he you know, he remembers the day that all facebook's internal APPS went down and people couldn't go to the cafeteria. I would agree I found that answer. Extremely, ed? Persuasive. that. Do you think that was like actually strategic for him to be like, I, don't know and then come back later and correct the record I do remember when that happened I. Mean. I really don't know I mean also you know during a six hour hearing, it's also possible that you just you get flustered or you miss here something or or something because. Yeah. As as you say, I'm sure he remembers the day that apple turned off their internal APPS I mean. Honestly. Seems like an opportunity to talk about apple's market power, and the fact that you know a day of work canceled at facebook because apple got mad. But I think most of the CEO's didn't go into yesterday a wanted to pick fights with each other. It was kind of sad that they didn't. I was Kinda hoping that Tim Cook take a shot at soccer burger. Point that the other two APP platforms I was expecting it. It was there. It was. There was all there. So cellini ended and he ended the whole meeting with closing statement. He said, some of these companies didn't get broken out. They all need to get regulated in the off too much power that some of them I. don't these breaking up apple. What sort of break. Right like. The division get sent into the corner thing about what it's done. Right. Does should spin out the finder team I've always wanted to. A clean is always that they want to. They want the APP store to be separate from the IPHONE. Basically, that's the thing I always hear. Can't break I. Think you can write some strong regulations but not playing you're on store, right. But like Elizabeth Warren's point was it's cleaner if it's two companies, but it's still a gigantic remedy that I don't think there's a lot of like like consumer or public opinion is going to walk into an Apple Cup I think you'll radio at marketplace. It seems very clear that we says some of them she broken up he is talking about facebook. I have a twenty percent conference level. He might be talking with Google and Youtube as well. But if he's going to say some of the need to get broken up like it's facebook, did you hear anything yesterday that supported that conclusion or Saudi stocks I? MEAN HE I don't remember which Republican it was, but he was like the Obama FTC looked at this and they said it was minding love. Obama. Right. Like. Why would we go back in time to relook at I? Mean, there is a belief and I mean. Somebody who thinks there could be a lot of benefit in instagram and WHATSAPP being different companies from facebook. And the reason you ask. So many questions about that acquisition as you're making the case that it never should have been approved in the first place, and so now you need to remedy it. So that was actually like the entire thrust of the argument against facebook yesterday. I think, you could probably make just as good a case that Amazon after spin out aws, but lawmakers chose not to make that case. Yeah. I think that also gets into. Politics of the acquisition of the time. To his credit is like nobody knew instagram would actually be a success like we made it a success. It didn't happen by itself. I, don't know if the lawmakers. By award, these guys said, but I don't know that he actually made that case very persuasively. and. Who knows I mean? That's like anything could have happened. Right? Cram could've stayed independent and rapidly grown and overtaken facebook like that's something that could have happened. It could have kind settled into a middle zone like snapchat or twitter seems more likely to me although I think probably would have been bigger than those two but. You're never going to know I mean it is true that facebook gave Mike and Kevin it instagram enormous resources. A lot of the reasons why Mike and Kevin sold was because running tiny startup that's blowing up is absolutely exhausting Mike. Krieger. was dragging his laptop all around San. Francisco. Because the servers were melting at all times of the day whenever Justin Bieber. Posted like the site stopped working and they really we need help. Finding a person who can quickly fix this? So we don't have to like that is the reason that they were entertaining these offers and wanted to sell it. So that is also thing that happened. Do you think that that same kind of argument or approach can apply to what's up? What's up basically did not come up yesterday and all the focus on Instagram, but that's the other one, right? Yeah, and we know weirdly a lot less about that acquisition I. Think it's because people in America just have so much less love for what's APP generally. That, it's never seemed as important. What happened to WHATSAPP as what happens to instagram even though WHATSAPP, is used, you know way more, it probably has way more engagement even than instagram does so I don't know why that didn't come up as often. We know there was a competitive bidding war for that as well. Goule. Wanted it as well. You know Mark Zuckerberg made them an offer, they can't refuse. Do you think everyday Google's we should've spent more money on what's whatsapp like this could have been solved. Should have, but Google has been placed under an ancient curse that prevents them from ever making the right decision about any social product. So it was doomed never to happen. It's fun looking through the documents and watching them casually say they should buy facebook dot com. Yeah, that. Point. That is how they talk like the window into these executives just casually being like we should just this thing or maybe not, or we should just copied ourselves and kill it before it gets any traction like it's repeated over and over again last facebook question. This one is like harder to parse because I. There's a chance, it's October is just joking around but. But. He's in many of these emails. He's like the thing about startups, as you can always buy them, which I think the committee thinks is a smoking gun, right? Like facebook's entire plan is to buy the competition to get the data from wherever they get it to say, oh, man, this apps popping, we just buy it and kill it before it competes with us. I. Think he actually said at one point. That's a joke. Yes, he did and I believe that you know it was two thousand, twelve, right? He was probably still in his mid twenties. At that point, the company was a lot smaller like people were joking around like there's more loose talk when companies are younger and I do think. It was it was part of that. I think the more interesting question becomes. Let's say facebook is telling the truth about everything. Let's say they thought it was going to be a successful acquisition, but they never knew it was gonna big as it became today and they invested in it and it got super big. Okay. Well, now, it's as big as it is. Should they be allowed to keep? Keep it or should they be forced to spend it out and if you're GONNA force them to spin it out. What's the argument that you'RE GONNA. Make about why one question that I have a lot is clearly the referral they're gonNa make, and it seems like if you don't have some other reason, we've heard hints that there's some other reason, the FTC scrutinize this that will eventually be revealed. But what you're saying is the antitrust standard at the time, the Consumer Hartman stand, which is still our standard. Says, you have to prove prices will go up both products for free. You're screwed. Right? There's nothing to review because you're not gonNA prove prove that free products are gonNA get more expensive. I think it's pretty unfair if you change the standard and you go back in time and say you missed that standard. So I think there has to be something else there. Well, what was the standard by which at and T. was broken up? Right? Like presumably at and T. didn't used to be that big, and then it just got really big and then they broke it up at least. That's the thumbnail understanding I have of that break-up. Well, yeah. But then reformed itself. Right. But because of lax antitrust regulation, right? Like it wasn't a naturally occurring phenomenon that all those APPS got back to the other or was that just sort of like inattention to capitalism It's like in the seventies and eighties. This is Tim moves book the cursive bigness in the seventies and eighties Robert Bork I can't talk about Robert on this podcast. Are we doing this right now. Robert was very influential judge Appellate Judge Federal Appellate? Judge. And basically moved the antitrust law to the consumer harm standard as part of a movement called and economics. A whole thing Robert. Bork. Mostly famous because he was not appointed. He was nominated Supreme Court by Reagan but they leaked video tape rental history, and then he didn't get nominated and that is where the expression getting bork's comes from. This is all true Netflix's still has to abide by videotape data privacy act is a whole. This is all true when facebook and Netflix had some partners, Nansen? Partnership. To. Automatically share your net flicks, watch history to facebook. They're like pending the change of this law which we are working on Robert Bork. He haunts us all. I'm sorry, I can't believe this much. Yeah I. think that's just like the law changed in the in the seventies and eighties, the standard change. The conversation right now is a very much about changing it back months and months ago, pre pandemic, we had an economist from I. Think it was Nyu Thomas Philippon came on the show, and he was like look you have this natural ab test going on in the world where the European Union when it formed was like, how do we get an economy like America's? So, we'll just take their competition policies pretty good, and at the same time we changed consumer harm standard. So everything you're seeing the EU is basically our old competition antitrust standard in. You can see how active they are in everything. Here's a new consumer welfare standard. Whether you believe, this is actually a functional Ab test given. The state of both governments is up for debate, but that was his point I thought. It was spare can say.
Press Play with Madeleine Brand
The Big Tech Hearing Proved Congress Isn't Messing Around
"The purpose of today's hearing is to examine the dominance of Amazon, Apple, Facebook and Google. Roger the covert 19 pandemic. These corporations already stood out as titans in our economy. As American families shift more of their work, shopping and communications online, These Giants stand to profit. Locally owned businesses. Meanwhile, Mom and pop stores on Main Street facing economic price is unlike any in recent history. Rhode Island Democrat David Cellini, opening today's House hearing with the heads of the world's big tech companies. Amazon's Jeff Bezos out of Apple's Tim Cook, Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg and Google Sunder Pitch I. The foremen faced hours of questions from House lawmakers over whether they've used their superpower status to crowd out competition. And enrich themselves. The House Judiciaries Antitrust committee, which Cellini chairs has been looking into that question for the last year. Joining us to talk about the hearing today is tech expert Tim Woo. He teaches at Columbia Law School and is the author of the book The Curse of Bigness, Anti Trust in the New Gilded Age. Him welcome back to press play. Thanks for having me here. Well, you've argued for a very long time that the's tech giants have gotten too big. What do you think today's hearing accomplished in terms of getting more support to break them up? Well, they I think there are you know, for the first time, putting the most intense documents right in front of them and seeing how they react, and I think what we've gotten out of them, especially on Facebook. Is already some admissions of anti competitive intent that to my mind, make the case for filing a complaint even stronger. And what were some of those admissions that you heard today. Well, Ah. Mark Zuckerberg was questioned about by Jerry Nadler about the his. Ah, why he bought Instagram and pretty much Zuckerberg admitted they were ah, dangerous competitors. We sought to eliminate them at Natalie reminded him that it's illegal to buy off competitors because I don't want to compete with them, and they left it there. But, yeah, that was, I think a big admission and the main thing I've taken from the hearing so far. But isn't that part of business of hostile takeovers and trying to squeeze out the competition isn't part of the American way of doing business, so there's a difference between beating out your competitors and buying them. And since about 18 90. It's been illegal to buy a company just because you're sick of competing with him. You know, you could imagine. Let's take Coke was tired of Pepsi People's Children, Coke and Pepsi, you know and said, All right, forget it. We'll just buy each other and, you know, settle the so so Now it's been illegal since 18 90 or so. Right. So when it comes to Facebook, what about the issues of how it Spreads misinformation, especially campaign misinformation, and, you know, fake news for lack of a better term. Yeah, I know. It hasn't so far. Um, it has a little bit sorry, especially hate speech. I think the big issue there that they're focusing on and Is this idea that that Facebook has an impunity because they have such a secure market position that they're not really afraid of advertising boycotts. They're not really afraid of people leaving That's the least a point that the House representatives were trying to make, and so therefore they don't really have an incentive to clean up their act. What about the other companies? Amazon that also has incredible market share. Can you first catalogue just how big Amazon is and how much bigger it's gotten since the current virus epidemic? Yeah, you know, the Amazon has closed in on the market cap of 1.5 trillion They have 280 billion in revenue. They have increased dramatically. Actually, stock prices increased since the beginning of the Corona virus by I don't know the exact percentage don't want to get it wrong, but by a tremendous amount, in fact, And there was one day in which Jeff Bezos gained $13 billion personally, so they are the biggest of big attack for the first part of hearing they didn't get any questions, but representative Dia Paul brought it in accusing them. Of lying in front of Congress about how they treat third party sellers and pressing bass. Those hard on how he runs his marketplace. So they they, they've got some of they've got some fire. Coming in. Yeah, I guess the problem. There is not only well they sell, you know products from third parties always there slow selling their own products, and so they are. I guess in competition with 1/3 party supplies on their own platform. How does that work? I mean, that's I think the acquisition or the problem is that people worry that Amazon has become more or less the dominant online retailer. They have some competition Homer, but you know, more or less dominant. So you make it on Amazon are Or you don't make it at all. And if that's the marketplace, the prospect of You come up with successful thing? I don't know Better mousetrap, and then Amazon makes their own copy of it. So the Amazon version of it and then sells it for less. You know, that turns into a sucker's game, and I think that's been the main complaint about Amazon is ah, less that they You know about their competitors or something but more that they have turned the marketplace into something of a rigged game for their own products. Right and a sweet noted Jeff Bezos is the world's richest man. Right now, the company is you outline is just so big. It's hard to even wrap your mind around it. Is there any way you could break up Amazon or hasn't just become too big to break up? That's a good question. You know, it hasn't been subject to a lot of discussion, probably for the reasons you suggest. Most of scrutiny of Amazon is how they treat the marketplace. I think for a true old school antitrust type who just believes that too much power to concentrated should always be broken. Would want to switch, you know, break Amazon into some kind of pieces. One way might be to break off their Web services division, which is a dominant in its space. You could also imagine, as with it and t breaking it into baby Amazons. I guess that are supposed to compete with each other. But I know it hasn't been unlike Facebook and even Google. Has been talks about how would you break them up? Think Amazon. It's been more about can they? Can you get them to run their at their market place better? And then Google. Obviously a search giant and it's become a verb. It's such an intimate part of who we are at this point again. How would you break up Google if you could It's a good question. Let me let me say that Google has come under fire this hearing both from Sicily knee on the idea that they are essentially eating their ecosystem That is to say. You know if you if you like like with Amazon actually similar that if You know, you could come up with a really successful Web service of some kind in your sort of small enough that Google will make a version of it and then send all the traffic to it so that that's the accusation against them. As for you know, what would you do to Google one You could say, don't do that. That's what the Europeans are trying to dio. Another would be to say, Well, listen, it Google, you run the search part and just leave it there. Don't do everything else. Okay. Maybe run Gmail, maybe right maps. But all these other little things that are just clones of other companies. Stay out of that, or make them be independent companies. I should add. By the way, there's you know, I'm maybe we get to this, but there's been AH, Google face us a lot of Republicans during the hearing, talking about different issues. Trying to get Google to admit that it Ah Is too friendly to China. Eyes too unfriendly to the US Pentagon. That's been another theme of this hearing is that I think should be mentioned. Well, you bring up China, and I guess the argument against breaking up these companies is that they're competing against Chinese companies, which In many cases have the backing of the state and there's there's no limit to their monopolistic practices. And so if these are global companies, should there be different rules when it comes to monopoly now than there were, you know, back in the 19th century. Yeah. Or the 20th? Yeah, that is the argument. So you know, kind of goes like this. If you break up Facebook or make fix books, life difficulty the Chinese will take over. It's kind of a national champion like argument. So we have to have our guys. Um I don't find it convincing at all. Last time we heard that kind of argument was when Japan was the all great mighty power that was going to take over everything in America. And they said it so you can't break up the tea and you can't break up IBM. I think we've had a better track record. Forcing American companies to be competitive. It's not breaking them up, at least putting him under heavy scrutiny like Microsoft and hoping a new generation arises. So yeah, I think that's a pretty lame excuse not to enforce the law that put it that way. So what do you think is going to come out of this? You know, I think from what I've heard there was some documents that were coming out of this that nobody has seen. And I think they put more pressure on the administration and also the states to file complaints. I would not be surprised if Google ends up on the receiving end of an antitrust complaint before November. And after this hearing, I wonder of Facebook's gonna get 12 or whether that's going to be something that the election decides. But, yes, I think it adds to the pressure to file actual cases as opposed to talking about it.
Press Play with Madeleine Brand
The Big Tech Hearing Proved Congress Isn't Messing Around
"The purpose of today's hearing is to examine the dominance of Amazon, Apple, Facebook and Google. Roger the covert 19 pandemic. These corporations already stood out as titans in our economy. As American families shift more of their work, shopping and communications online, These Giants stand to profit. Locally owned businesses. Meanwhile, Mom and pop stores on Main Street facing economic price is unlike any in recent history. Rhode Island Democrat David Cellini, opening today's House hearing with the heads of the world's big tech companies. Amazon's Jeff Bezos out of Apple's Tim Cook, Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg and Google Sunder Pitch I. The foremen faced hours of questions from House lawmakers over whether they've used their superpower status to crowd out competition. And enrich themselves. The House Judiciaries Antitrust committee, which Cellini chairs has been looking into that question for the last year. Joining us to talk about the hearing today is tech expert Tim Woo. He teaches at Columbia Law School and is the author of the book The Curse of Bigness, Anti Trust in the New Gilded Age. Him welcome back to press play. Thanks for having me here. Well, you've argued for a very long time that the's tech giants have gotten too big. What do you think today's hearing accomplished in terms of getting more support to break them up? Well, they I think there are you know, for the first time, putting the most intense documents right in front of them and seeing how they react, and I think what we've gotten out of them, especially on Facebook. Is already some admissions of anti competitive intent that to my mind, make the case for filing a complaint even stronger. And what were some of those admissions that you heard today. Well, Ah. Mark Zuckerberg was questioned about by Jerry Nadler about the his. Ah, why he bought Instagram and pretty much Zuckerberg admitted they were ah, dangerous competitors. We sought to eliminate them at Natalie reminded him that it's illegal to buy off competitors because I don't want to compete with them, and they left it there. But, yeah, that was, I think a big admission and the main thing I've taken from the hearing so far. But isn't that part of business of hostile takeovers and trying to squeeze out the competition isn't part of the American way of doing business, so there's a difference between beating out your competitors and buying them. And since about 18 90. It's been illegal to buy a company just because you're sick of competing with him. You know, you could imagine. Let's take Coke was tired of Pepsi People's Children, Coke and Pepsi, you know and said, All right, forget it. We'll just buy each other and, you know, settle the so so Now it's been illegal since 18 90 or so. Right. So when it comes to Facebook, what about the issues of how it Spreads misinformation, especially campaign misinformation, and, you know, fake news for lack of a better term. Yeah, I know. It hasn't so far. Um, it has a little bit sorry, especially hate speech. I think the big issue there that they're focusing on and Is this idea that that Facebook has an impunity because they have such a secure market position that they're not really afraid of advertising boycotts. They're not really afraid of people leaving That's the least a point that the House representatives were trying to make, and so therefore they don't really have an incentive to clean up their act.
Techmeme Ride Home
Big Tech CEOs Testimony Before Congress
"Today was the day as I record these words the big tech CEO's are still testifying before Congress. So I'm going to have to do a summary of what I've seen just in the first couple of hours or so and leave some of the juicier question and answer back and forth for tomorrow. I up a note on the format that we've been seeing. Yes. All of the CEOS were testifying remotely. They were using Cisco Webex as the video conferencing tool and it seemed to work fairly well at least right until this very moment as I turned off the stream to go into the booth to record this, they took a ten minute recess because apparently one of the witnesses. was having an issue with their stream or feed, and I'm wondering if it might have been Jeff Bezos because at least thus far were almost an hour and a half into the testimony and he hadn't been asked a single question. Anyway back to the whole idea of testifying remotely if I were going to do one of those rate, my video call backgrounds reports. Bezos look like he was in some sort of executive boardroom, lots of tasteful Chomsky's behind him. Look like he was in a conference room at a high end law firm I couldn't tell what Zuckerberg was sitting in front of it looked like closed vertical blinds almost like I don't know some sort of like a bunker like if you're battening down your house for a Hurricane Tim, Cook was in front of some sort of tasteful plant trough though he was clearly working off an ipad pro. Let's start off with what the Fab four had to say in their opening statements. Amazon's Jeff bezos underscored Amazon's job creation, its investments in social causes and its role in supporting small and medium-sized businesses. And made the case that Hey Amazon is just a tiny competitor in a huge global market quote. The global retail market we compete in is strikingly large and extraordinarily competitive Amazon accounts for less than one percent of the thousand five, trillion dollar global retail market and less than four percent of retail in the US unlike industries that are winner take all there's room in retail for many winners for example. More than eighty retailers in the US. Alone earn over one billion dollars in annual revenue like any retailer we know that the success of our store depends entirely on customer satisfaction with their experience in our store every day Amazon competes against large established players like target Costco Kroger and of course, Walmart a company more than twice Amazon size, and while we have always focused on producing a great customer experience. For retail sales done primarily online sales initiated online are now in even larger Growth Area for other stores Walmart's online sales grew seventy four percent in the first quarter and customers are increasingly flocking disservices invented by other stores. Amazon still can't match at the scale of other large companies like curbside pickup and in store returns and quote alphabets. Soon, Darpa, Chai, said that Google also operates in a highly competitive. Market and that it's free products benefit the average American quote. A competitive digital ad marketplace gives publishers, advertisers, and therefore consumers an enormous amount of choice pichai stated, for example, competition and ads from twitter instagram comcast and others has helped lower online advertising costs by forty percent over the last ten years with these savings pass down to consumers through lower prices in areas like travel and real estate Google faces strong. For search queries for many businesses that are experts in those areas. Today's competitive landscape looks nothing like I. Did five years ago let alone twenty one years ago when Google launched its first product Google search people have more ways to search for information than ever before and quote. Tim Cook of Apple said that the APP store has opened the gate wider for software developers. Also, apple doesn't have dominant market share quote as much as we believe, the iphone provides the best user experience. We know it is far from the only choice available to consumers Cook said after beginning with five hundred APPs today the APP store hosts more than one point seven, million, only sixty of which are apple software. Clearly, if apple is a gatekeeper, what we have done is open the gate wider we want to get every APP we can on the store, not keep them off and quote. And facebook's mark. Zuckerberg said well, but he said a thousand times before that facebook knows it has more work to do on things like fighting misinformation and that you know companies aren't bad simply because they're big. And he took pains to point out that facebook is an American success story quote although people around the world use our products. FACEBOOK is a proudly American company. He said, we believe in Values Democracy Competition Inclusion and free expression that the American economy was built on many other tech companies share these values, but there's no guarantee our values will win out for example China. Is Building its own version of the Internet focused on very different ideas and they are exporting their vision to other countries as Congress and other stakeholders. Consider how antitrust laws support competition in the US. I believe it's important to maintain the core values of openness and fairness that have made America's digital economy, a force for empowerment and opportunity here and around the world and quote. In his opening remarks, the chairman of the Committee David. Sy-. Selena Rhode. Island. Laid out three areas of inquiry that the was scheduled to delve into at least in questioning from the Democratic Congress folk more on that in A. Quitting CNBC, each platform allegedly serves as a quote bottleneck for a key channel of distribution and quote the platforms allegedly used their control over digital infrastructure to Sir Vail other companies, their growth business activity, and whether they might pose a competitive threat and use that information to maintain their own power and third the platforms allegedly abused their control over current technologies to extend their power through tactics like self referencing their own products. Quote. Prior to the cove nineteen pandemic, these corporations already stood out as titans in our economy. Silly said in the wake of Covid nineteen however, they are likely to emerge stronger and more powerful than ever before, and he concluded by saying quote, our founders would not bow before a king nor should we bow before the emperor's of the online economy and quote? But as I say, while this was labelled as an anticompetitive antitrust inquiry, it seems like the Republican Congress folk were primarily interested in probing alleged bias against conservative users. In fact, Jim Jordan. One of the ranking Republican representatives spent most of his opening remarks railing against. which if that continues would basically be exactly what all of the CEOS in the talking head boxes would be hoping for right lots of distraction and no real spotlight on them. In fact, a lot of the most heated questions directed at a company that's not even present. We'll see if that continues but I have to say straight off Chairman Sicily and was very specific targeted sharp questions. He kept interrupting folks when they started to stray into doublespeak and the very nature of the questions from him and others at least so far. This wasn't like previous congressional hearings we've covered where the congress folk didn't seem to even understand the businesses they were investigating, and maybe that was because I don't know if you saw the woman sitting very prominently very obviously behind Mr. Cecil lean. Let me let the Washington Post fill you in on who that was quote as a twenty eight year old law student Lena Con penned a twenty four thousand word article for Yale Law Journal titled Amazon's antitrust. Paradox. The article described how US antitrust law isn't equipped to deal with tech giants such as Amazon. Even as the company has made itself as essential to commerce in the twenty first century in the way that railroads and telephone systems had in the previous century con now works as counsel for the antitrust subcommittee she has worked with Sylvain to develop his case against the tech giants including Amazon and quote. As I said, the questioning is continuing as I speak these words in fact I just heard that they came back from their recess. The whole thing did kick off hour late only getting started at one PM, eastern? So I don't think it'll be done before for five PM at least. So again, I'll put together a summary of all of the juicy exchanges happening now for tomorrow.
Morning Edition
Are Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google Too Big?
"Four titans of Tech are expected to testify virtually to the House Judiciary subcommittee on antitrust. Amazon's Jeff Bezos, Apple's Tim Cook, Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg and Google soon dark pitch high here to preview this star studded panel is our own star needs. Rachel Myrow, senior editor of Our Silicon Valley News desk. Hello, Rachel. Shocks. Hello, Brian. Just for context. Here is a challenge for the two of us who both worked at market place back in the day. Can you tell us how big these companies are without using a dollar figure Using a dollar figure? Okay. Facebook has roughly three billion with a B users across various social platforms. That's user numbers figure. Amazon controls 38% of US online sales. Wal Mart, For contrast, is Amazon's nearest competitors, not even 6% like not even in the game. Google process is about 90% of Web searches globally Apples APP store. You're there. You're nowhere in the apple universe. They take a 30% cut. 30%. Brian. Wow. You did it all right. Four very different companies. Four key parts of modern life and that raises for different sets of antitrust concerns, right It does indeed, And that face is big questions about what lawmakers hoped to accomplish with this hearing today, right? I mean, even though all of them are reportedly targets of probes by the Justice Department Coalition of State attorneys general, we could take all day talking about any one of these tech titans. All right. So let's pick one. Okay, I'll pick one. Amazon. You're a prime member, right? Yeah, me and just about everybody else in America. If I make and or market a product, I have to be on Amazon to sell it to America, and I have to pop up early in the rankings. When American shoppers search for my thing I have to pay Amazon to make that happen. Amazon, by the way, has been known to copy and prioritize marketing. Of its name brand version of popular third party products otherwise known as stealing or counterfeiting. Amazon also criticized for failing to shut down other counterfeiters. Let's say somebody else who shouldn't be making my product is making it and according to the Wall Street Journal fairly recently Amazon's venture capital fund steals ideas from tech start ups that pitch to it, So that's just a short list of things Amazon critics have to say about that company. Wow. So back to this question of why the House Judiciary subcommittee is holding this meeting today. Officially, it caps a big investigation. More than 1.3 million documents gathered. Yes, indeed. And I had to tell Brian it is anybody's guess. How much time Will actually be spent on that investigation. Despite that number of documents as opposed to the other hot, we hate tech topics like election security, hate speech and political bias. Wow. Well, Rachel, thank you. You bet. Cheese. Rachel Myrow, senior editor of Silicon Valley News Desk.
Morning News with Manda Factor and Gregg Hersholt
Browns sign Garrett to 5-year, $125 million extension
"NFL news. The training camp scheduled to open in a few weeks, the league Very busy Yesterday. The Tennessee Titans agreed to a new contract with NFL rushing leader Derek Henry just before the deadline yesterday that Prescott will play under the franchise tag this year after the Cowboys quarterback was unable to work out a multiyear package before yesterday's deadline for Signing your franchise players Cleveland Browns defensive and Myles Garrett five year, $125 million contract extension, making him the NFL's highest paid defensive player. The memorial Golf tournament is underway
Straight Outta Vegas with RJ Bell
Titans, Derrick Henry agree to contract before NFL deadline
"The titans and pro bowl running back Derrick Henry did reach a deal on an extension just before the four PM Eastern deadline terms of the deal according to ESPN's Adam schefter four years fifty, million, twenty five point five guaranteed
Bloomberg Daybreak: Asia
Henry, Titans agree to $50M contract
"Tennessee Titans locking up running back Derrick Henry and a four year $50 million contract, 25 million Guaranteed money last season. The 26 year old led the NFL in Russian with 1540 yards while also scoring 18 total touchdown. 16 of
WAOK On Air
After 87 years, Washington's NFL team changed in two months
"World turned upside down on its head with the announcement that the Redskins after what a century have decided to Finally change their name and Ah ah image and likeness and you know a lot lot into the store because still a lot of the decisions that have to be made. Let's head out to the wait for Dotcom hotline. We're joined by then. Fisher covers the NFL and Olympics for Sports business daily. You can follow Ben on Twitter at Ben Fisher s V. J. Ben will appreciate time and thanks for spending a few minutes with us here in Atlanta this evening. Have you be there? Anytime. So then let's talk a little bit about this decision. Do you think You know, part of the You know, whatever the internal review and things like that, that they had a pretty good idea that they were going to change the name. Do you think that they probably hired a firm? To already start to put the wheels in motion of coming up with new name, new image and things like that. Well, somewhat surprisingly, I don't believe they have That there's an obvious question the sort of thing you'd almost always bring in 1/3 party, um, agency or since consultants. But it appears by all accounts to be a very narrow circle there. Dan Snyder and a couple other people and not many others. Um, I guess makes a certain amount of sense because they know the more people you bring him more likely than a leak conceit. That's about but I'm not sure they actually have gone through a lot of those traditional steps. You would expect that of somebody doing a big rebranding. How much do you think if you just had to even kind of estimate? How many millions of dollars are we talking about from? I don't know. Hiring a marketing or PR firm to help with You know, with all of this, plus the actual creation of a name and logo and, you know, obviously will be merchandising and all that kind of stuff. What kind of money do you think A team gets into when when this kind of process takes place? What? Um I'd say all in and the big cost there, I think would really actually be the the lost merchandise and the things that you've already created, Or you like to be the Mari created there now useless. Um So I mean, I'd say 30 million. Mark is finished. I mean, that's a very uninformed guests. You know, I have to check a lot of things for that Sounds right time. You got your professional thieves, illegal fees. He spent a lot of time in court. Even if no one really fights trademarking, gotta go the European Union and get those trademarks and all sorts of things you and I probably would never consider And then you know you've got what do you think of all the products in this world business cards, Coffee, moans of sign anywhere that has a Redskins logo or a name. We gotta go be replaced in very short order. And the reason that 30 I mean, 30 may be high, but we're all going on the assumption that they want this happened very quickly. And just like constructing an office power if you need it done extra fast. You're paying overtime and your pain for things that you probably rather not. But That's the cost of expediency. Ben Fisher joining us here in the wait for dot com Hotline covers the NFL for sports business daily. Then talk to me a little bit about on. I don't know. I don't know if you know this. You know the process by which We know the league wants this to happen, and Roger Goodell has supported it. But what any idea what goes into league approval is if the owners in a certain percentage About the logo aboutthe name. You know, I mean, any idea about how that process works, at least get that step done and over with Uh, yeah, We don't need to approve it on and that's ah vote of owners. But other than that, it's it's actually it's not entirely clear, not on. There's not a detail procedure in public. And that is public knowledge on exactly how that happened. But the league certainly does have rights over this. You know each of these 32 teams the individual business for certain purposes, but The league knows they're going strong in its weakest member, and they don't want to be placed. One problematic became with another dude. Definitely I'd say so over that, But you know it's a bit of a black box exactly what they would be looking for, or what? Where the where the possible problems spots are on that son. You know, Ben, when the AH When Houston moved the Tennessee I believe it was Was it two years that they played with the Oilers marker or year year and 1/2 for something that they have the moniker before the seven? Okay, so they had them so they had the order. So my point is, is that it wasn't like the day that they moved to Tennessee, they become the Tennessee Titans. How long do you think this process plays out? And maybe compared from, you know, financial and just, you know, is there some comparison to how long it took with the Titans? Even though they knew that they were going to, you know, end up changing this. Can we kind of compare the situations about how long it may take for all of this to finally come to fruition? Well, I guess there's no reason you couldn't compare them because that is the last time a team change nicknames. Um, without you know, part of Ah, relocation or, you know you could talk about the ground Reagan's thing, Whether that was technically an expansion people, whatever but It was the last time you standing franchise without moving cities of changed his name, but it's so long ago. I mean that the scope of their websites but sort of your very basic, just digital properties that the Redskins will need to rename are so much bigger and I like being all that got so much more complicated, but that there is a good four compared to because that was a situation where The name change was part of a broader strategic vision and means that happened, But it wasn't necessarily important that it happened. By given bay. They were able to do things sort of under normal business. This is something now that it is completely different because there is a sense of urgency and we don't know exactly when they want to set up a new maid. But all indications are reporting is basically as soon as possible. And this is not something that you know, most business experts say wise to do. It's possible There's a 1,000,000 different things you get wrong. That re brandy. You want to make sure everything's perfectly buttoned up. So it probably doesn't take. You know, two years it took the Oilers to become the Titans, but it surely would be taking more than the two months that it would take. To put up totally rebranded team on the field in September. So my supposition that the season is going to be something of a neuron period in regard to the Washington football team name, and the more I think about it, the more I think that they might well play this year, just like known as the Washington football Club work. Burgundy and gold uniforms that simply don't have any luck. I'm not predicting that I'm saying that maybe the most likely explanation for them trying to do this this late in the summer. Amid everything else, the NFL is trying to say You're out with the pandemic, of course. Ben, talk to me a little
ESPN Radio
NFL franchise tag deadline: Which players could sign new long-term deals?
"Around the national Football date for two players on the defensive side on Tuesday. What happens on Wednesday? That's when the deadline comes around for all players who were either given the franchise tag of the transition tag to get long term deals done with their teams, notables that we're looking at her deck. Prescott, Derrick Henry, although Adam Schefter reporting Derrick Henry and the Titans will not get a deal done. So Henry's gonna play on the one year franchise tag of $10.27 million. It will not be a one year tag for defensive tackle Chris Jones with kids City chiefs he got paid. Four year deal. $80 million.5 million. Additionally, that could be an incentive. 37 million and signing bonus. 60 million is guaranteed for Chris Jones, who's only 26 years old, and he's got 33 sacks and 61 career games. The Browns and defensive end Myles Garrett. They didn't have any deadline that has decided to pay guarantee the Browns finalizing the largest deal in the history of the names that'll put, folding for non quarterback. It's a five year extension for the $125 million But that means that Miles Garrett's gonna be in Cleveland for seven more years. Using the Tuan. It's rookie deal. Total value of the contracts 144. $1,000,000. The Eagles bringing back Left tackle Jason Peters because Brandon Brooks has got a torn Achilles tendon. Major League Baseball opening up on Thursday Thursday, a week from Thursday. Question is, Will there be umpires and if so, how many? AP reporting tonight that 10 major league umpires have opted out of the upcoming season because of the Corona virus comes first baseman Anthony Bristol. Gonna have an Emma Ryan is back tomorrow. He's been out a week because of the lingering back pain.
The Jewish History Podcast - By Rabbi Yaakov Wolbe
Rabbi Avraham Grodzinsky: The Exemplar of Slabodka
"Rack Density T. was the last head of these slutty sheep in Lithuania he was the primary disciple of the altar of Slovakia, and he served as his successor when the Altair wanted found a branch of his yeshiva in Israel in Roane. He sent his primary disciple Rome to establish it. And after the she was established. They switch places. Rotherham in St went back to Slovakia too heavy Sheva in the altars place, and the altar when Israel to head the yeshiva in. Ron Robot headed these Sheva in Slovakia until World War broke out, and even led a cadre of students in the governor ghetto under ghastly conditions. With the destruction of European Jewry in the Holocaust, we have to always remember that a vibrant world. Of the Lithuanian Mercier Sheva expired with European jewellery. Of course, the great she votes were resurrected after the war. But they are a shell of their PROGENITOR HIS GLORY If you WANNA study about what the pre warship world was like. Rabbi gratuity is an exemplar of the glory and the greatness of that lost world. He was a man of unmatched nobility, even aristocracy. person of flawless sterling character, a man of unparalleled intellect. A man who also sadly lived a life replete with tragedies, suffering all manners of pain and suffering punctuated by his macabre murder by the Nazis on the twenty second day of Thomas Nineteen, forty, four, exactly seventy six years ago. As a DISCLAIMER WANNA point out the repre Ginseng tea is also my great grandfather, the father of my maternal grandmother so for me, this is especially personal and poignant. The syon of a long line of famous rabbis and scholars rub ever under aginst. He was born in Warsaw Poland in eighteen, eighty two his parents rabbi Yitzhak in high amount owed. Rigidity were legendary titans of the community in Warsaw they operated a home that was a veritable factory of Torah and kindness and hospitality to this I. wanted to share a bit about reforms, background and upbringing, but I was a little bit wary to talk about his parents and the kind of home that the operated because the stories are so fantastic so superlative that I imagined the audience will likely doubt they're autheniticity. Pledge to you, dear listener is at the stores, and I'm going to share about the garage St home in Warsaw are all documented by first party accounts his father Rabbits Hawk whom everyone called? Rebecca founded and ran a network of Sheva of Torah schools in Warsaw. He took care of young students like elementary school. He had thirteen teachers that he hired that he fundraise for that he paid for. He ran as Sheva. Sheva for high school age teams and advance the Sheva than even a Colo and advanced, tell Munich Institution for married scholars now this system it exists in most Jewish cities in the world today, but it was highly novel in Warsaw in the Nineteenth Century, and show organized fundraising for at all, and his wife actually cut for all the students every day on an average day. Their home hosted thirty guests for lunch.
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"Again, everyone, welcome back to tighten talk. The Titans podcast I'm what are your co host Charles Skaggs. Titans Tower Oh wait no I'm not because people still aren't wearing your masks. You got to be safe and got to be smart. People Trust me on this, but thankfully. I'm joined once again by my wonderful co host and fellow Titan talker well or at least fellow doom patroller. As we talk, the third episode of do patrols season two. Dj Nick. So? Glad you can join me once again to talk about doom patrol. Age. Hey Charles I'm doing fantastic. It seems like in initially Italy folks are still kind of keeping their heads instill behaving hope to continue to to be that way and yeah. I was kind of keeping an eye out on what was going on the states, and is a little bit sets troubling to say the least she's just. A little bit so. Can you maybe like send more Italians over here somehow or have them? skype everybody that they can possibly get their hands on to to get the message across because. We're not getting it here. Apparently, apparently, we're very thick and we're very about this so. I. Is Odd it's once. He is actually not the. Joke for once we actually taking US seriously. Exactly see we we you know we were. We felt so bad, so therefore we decided to lower ourselves to help. Elevate you your much appreciated. Needs that right now, so we raise, we're raising Italy up the process of tearing ourselves down to bit. I'm kind of basking in that moment. Folks actually appraising Italy I'm enjoying it while it lasts. I would you know if if we ever actually? Had reason to celebrate here I would definitely take advantage of that guess all right, but enough of that nonsense. Sort of nonsense. Yes here fifty three. Nick and I are going to be discussing pain patrol. Which of course is the third episode of Doom Patrol Season Two..
ESPN Daily
How Will Cam Newton Make the Patriots Better?
"All right bill. We're here today to talk about the New England Patriots and Cam specifically began her. They used to film. The Cincinnati bengals sideline for which they were find over a million dollars mosque third round. Pick well the good news. Is that they've decided to uproot their entire organization and totally chance planet quarterback to bury the latest piece of evidence that there maybe not playing by the rules as everybody else. Bill Barnwell is the host of the podcast. The bill Barnwell show. You just, but there are people on the Internet positing that these events are connected. Of course. We are here today to talk about. The other came Cam Newton the New England. Patriots who could have predicted this? IS GOING TO RELEASE CAM to they're going to wait, and the Patriots are going to get him for nothing and they're going to be good. It's going to be awful in offense. It was impossible up to this point. The idea that the only team in the league that to starting quarterback might possibly make a move for the best available starting quarterback on the free agent market see Telepho-, obvious when you lay it out like that, but here's the thing it's June and according to our Adam Schefter. No other teams exception to the Browns who had some interest put in a call then New England goes out, and they get cam for basically nothing veteran minimum with incentives. How bill how? I think it's a combination of things I mean. Obviously the coronavirus has impacted team's ability to see workouts to administer physicals and Cam Newton of course as a player coming off of a serious injury, eight frank injury to the middle of his foot, which cost him pretty much. The entire two thousand nineteen season for that coming off the shoulder surgery has not been healthy in a while, and so you'd figure in a typical circumstance. He would be easy for teams to kind of see what cam has left, and then make an offer only, but there haven't really been teams able to make the sort of offers that would justify starting quarterback role. And then I think from camps perspective he rightfully would rather be making less money with the opportunity to start for the new, England Patriots say a playoff team from a year ago, then serve as a perhaps higher paid backup in a spot where he's unlikely to play. Knowing how little New England paid for him and looking back at some of the other quarterbacks who got jobs during free agency? Are there any teams that you think would have been wise to jump ahead of new? England and WHY IS IT CHICAGO? I do think that the decision to trade for Nick. Foles a player who realistically has if not Worse Injury History Than Cam Newton certainly a comparable injury history when it comes to his checkered past i. do think that the bears would have been in much better shape. Do Not trae draft pick and to sign Cam Newton for much less money than they're going to give nick foles over the next three years and I think there's a handful of teams that. That even if it happened as a backup, I think teams like the steelers. Of course you've talked about the titans as possible CAM, Newton location and I think absolutely teams like that have a veteran quarterback with a history of injuries and very little behind them in the backup role would have absolutely been smart to making move for Cam Newton, but obviously I think it's the Patriots benefit that the League has been so conservative when it's come to approach again. Let's talk about what we can expect out of canning. Which I realize, you are not a doctor, but the big question mark is you've outlined his health the last time we saw him play. Football was the beginning of the two thousand nineteen season. He only played a couple of games before his season ended due to a foot injury, he incurred during the preseason. What did you see out of Cam the last time he was healthy? The last extended stretch we saw from Cam Newton as a healthy quarterback, was the first half of twenty eighteen, and he was excellent. Newton throws. Fabio Capello Panthers one of the best teams in football at six to newton was tenth and Passer Rating Twelve Qbr and the panthers had guilty scheme that was designed to actually trying to out more quickly and leave some of the hits that candidate taking, and we saw his numbers include accordingly. SNAP TO NEWTON looking left throws it over the Middle Touchdown Greg Olsen. Cam Newton looking like a poster on feats. Assume. Thirty so frequently earlier in his career, they always posted pretty mediocre. Completion percentages in two thousand eighteen across the first half you had a completion percentage of sixty seven point three percent that was one of the best marks in football. He was averaging nearly four touchdowns for every pick producing really two hundred eighty yards per game from scrimmage. He was illegitimate MVP candidate through the first half of twenty eighteen. And then of course, the injuries struck. Labor rotator cuff just to soreness. He had a shoulder injury that led to surgery after two thousand eighteen. And then the foot injury cam stumbles Abu to the nearside. He's in trouble. Hit droplet like. Damn comes off the field limping a little bit maybe. But you tried to play through and was unable to do so.
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"Show DOT com. That will lead you to also without social media outside of that is also host happiness darkness the Superhero movie podcast wherever we a different co host. I discuss a superhero movie of that choice. You can find out a little major platform. spotify apple PODCASTS Radio in this coming week listers will be getting a double dose ace as we'll be releasing our review of the crow with Eve Murphy and a few days off of that doctor strange with Kelly. Pippen I say those usually will release one episode every Sunday evening slash Monday morning for more info on this podcast you can find us on facebook. That's facebook dot com slash happiness in darkness. Excellent Excellent Jesse working. They reach you on the interwebs sweats so we are running out of time to make this quick. I am on twitter at Jesse Jackson. DFW You can find me on facebook. Jesse Jackson Jackson Lewisville Texas You can hear me talk doctor. Who With Charles next everywhere? That'll be starting up. I'll be doing that fulltime starting in January we've got new WHO We will continue to talk about the watchmen and other fun stuff on the Phantom Zone podcast and then and you can hear me. Talk Music Every week onset listening Bruce Charles yes as my wife has texted me going. It's crisis time. Yes exactly so As for me at Charles skaggs on twitter at Shell skaggs on Instagram Charles skaggs in Ohio on facebook and my blogging. He thinks damn good coffee and hot. Were talk about all the stuff we talk about here on Titan. Talk all kinds of comic books I find News News of my other. PODCASTS like next stop everywhere anywhere and the Phantom Zone podcast with Jesse and also ghost with twin peaks. PODCASTS that ideal is where we talk about all things twin peaks David Lynch et Cetera Threat Cetera. I WANNA apologize for not being able to get to chuck beans emails He wrote a couple of very very long emails. commute very passionate about What he had seen in the past several titans episodes but Fortunately that We ran out of time and and I'll try maybe get those up on our facebook page at Titan. Talk Titans podcast. You can reach us there or if you want to reach out to us on twitter at tightened talk cast or if you want to drop US aligned. Just let us know what you thought about this episode or titans one Titan Talk G. DOT COM and otherwise we'll be back in two thousand twenty to talk do patrol season two in two thousand twenty Charles if we get enough feedback. We'll do a quick feedback episode. Maybe only thirty minutes or so where we could just reach back so we get more than what we've got now. We can do a quick feedback where we take turns reading it so yeah that sounds great. Yeah yeah that'd be great All right nick thank you so much I appreciate it. Charles thank you for keeping us on time trial it. That's right Let's see we got a call it. That's all folks right we got a TV show to watch exactly so everybody. Thank you again for listening to us on Titan. Talk all the season Nick. Thank thank you Always great you were fantastic as always we looking forward..
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"You know it was still good to see and You know arose is growing closer to Jason and yes and then Pour Gar get subjected to mercy's experiments so not looking good for regard this point. No it didn't moving on our penultimate episode. I love saying that word. Faux Hawk written by Tom. PABST once again directed by L.. Slow stovall and Stovall This is where Gar essentially goes a little bit off the rails. This is the first time he unleashes his powers at the poor at the coffee bar and basically malls a bunch of people and You Know Donna Dawn They come up basically tried to Stop Cadmus Front when they find out about Garen Connors conditioning and Rose admitting to Jason that you know that she's been helping de Stroke and we got a lot of her back story warrior in this one. This is a big rose episode. So Jessie. What's your take on this one? So this gave us the great scenes with Stuart and and the fruitcake discussion right so I will love this episode for at least that part of the episode there is issues. I hate what they did to Garfield I. I don't like that I don't think we needed the Hawk selling selling his suit for drugs. Yes we get it. Hawk is in a bad place. Okay we get it but This is You know I I at this point. I'm feeling a little bit better about the possibly the season let's see if they're going to stick the landing And and I hear what I wanna hear what you said Dj Come on Internet when it comes to folk doc once again. I think this was a half-and-half episodes because I too I think to myself why are you changing the role of of the the beach boys supposed to have in the seat in the series. I mean he's supposed to be the light-hearted guy the good guy the you know the one you almost people people can tries to rally everybody together as it were the heart of the team and you turn that only around its head and you use a trope. It's been done so many times that instinct. We need it necessarily which was choosing the concept of mind control as it were. And if you'RE GONNA do mind control do it well and do into way actually means something Larry has long lasting effects because they did this and then they can't they dealt away three away very quickly quickly as well so I was not happy with that toll was because we needed some light in this very dark tunnel and God was definitely represented. That's and and and also as as you were saying Jesse Concept of Yes we know that that's hanging in a in a rough place and he's doing drugs and stuff but you have to go all the wave during the whole concept of the guy who buys his suits and he's doing self eason in a kind of Making tidbits of himself playing who I thought that was to be honest was garbage and they could. They could have done without that so I wasn't. I wasn't particularly happy with this episode but it did have its good points like for example once again the way rose was used so I was saddened to see this kind of caused a huge rift with Jason. who kind of disappears for the rest of the season? Yeah Yeah because I was those to break up and it's very discouraging because apparently rose was the only really good thing and Jason's life apart from being robin. Of course exactly. Yeah all right moving on final episode season finale night wing so at long last week. Get to see Brenton thwaites in tonight why costume. This was written by Richard Him and show runner. Greg Walker directed by Carol banker. But you know this is a this is what we've been in all building up to. Hopefully everything all comes together. But as Jesse and I talked It doesn't quite do that so much. So Jesse. Let's start with you. What are your thoughts on this one? You know we just talked about this and I just think this is. It was a indecent finale but it it was not they they set themselves up to do things poorly We we we should've had you know we didn't need to set up next season We didn't need the cameras storyline. I mean we complained last time and I stand by it. You shouldn't be able to kill a stroke that easy In if you're going to try to say he's he's not dead than okay but why act like he's dead. I mean you're not even pretending you know you aren't going look in there as is bodies gone We spent a lot of time complaining about how they did this and I I just was lot of good I love seeing Dick in the night wing. you know costume. Though we you didn't give her hear him say night wing You know which we wanted to hear right. You know. I'm a Titan Fan. I want to hear him say tat. I see my code name is going to be night. Wing We didn't get that we didn't get the explanation of. Why aren't they looking for him breaking out of prison? There's no consequences for any of the legal cables that the titans are going through. Yeah super super another thing for super bowl nothing for Gar yeah. Yeah thanks for BIC I mean Rachel. Talks to him and Garfield just forgets the fact that you know he had innocent blood. He's had the taste of innocent blood on his. You know teeth I just I just I think they were going. Look look at our shining knight wing costume. Isn't this cool and then don't look behind the story behind the curtain. Let's just move forward. Nick how about you. I know you've got a few thoughts on this one. Yes indeed go for the cure curious exchange about this a brief exchange facebook about this Charles and save it for the podcast sabre for the podcast. I know I was doing my best to hold back but sometimes they just caught you know not yet. I'm usually optimistic. One you only know income. Yeah when it comes to shows movies etc always trying to find the redeeming qualities but here there were very very few redeeming qualities. Even for somebody as optimistic as me. Does his best to love this stuff because you know the three of us love them source material. We want these people to succeed. She didn't do a good show. But you know as I was mentioning threaten take great. Britain's chuck them in the garbage. You did did. They would try on. You did it with that stroke broke and then you had to come up with this whole thing of now they mind control. You have to go over the mind control and they go over very very quickly and it seemed like a very rushed finale analogy to me yes it was great to see Dick Become night wing but that was a that was just a very very brief thing. Let's talk about Donna Troy's death torso cheap. I mean it was just terrible. I mean you're talking about women at superpower woman is. She's electrocuted and apparently dies. It's like no that's doesn't happen and so I was so upset with this episode off the after the fact and I thought to myself you know you're getting upset over TV show. I thought it was all because it means so much to me and I was really upset about that. Okay rumor has it will come back but then why do that. I mean it's very cheap desk breath and doesn't mean anything if then you're going to bring her back so I was not happy with this fanatic and I certainly hope they pull up their socks on season three. Yeah Ed unfortunately This feels like Titans once again Tanking a season finale. We had that with Dick Grayson Jason. We were let down by this one. Where down by night wing and What didn't we were hoping everything would come together? It doesn't come together and you know and You know the death with Donna was just horribly done for you. Know Shame on on. Show Renner Greg Walker Kerr for even doing that because for one thing you know you wouldn't kill off wonder woman for you know with electrocuted. So why would you do that. To wonder girl. It made no sense whatsoever. My wife Lori was livid about that and is basically a hair's breadth width from dropping the show You know 'cause she's a huge Donna Troy Fan and so l. l. it did was just create a lot of bad will for just a you know a cheap way to kind of send a couple. Titans Titans off off off the board. Take them off the board for a while only to bring back later on So fluently and then okay you tease black fire. I heard that was something that I would just say. Once again for a bonus Post credits scene. Like he did with super boy in season one. I thought that would have been much more effective. Live greet absolutely said of the shows. Final moments All right so we've only got three more minutes to talk so unfortunately we're not gonNA have time to get to our hopes and predictions but any final thoughts before we Do our big shameless plugs. Everybody go ahead neck. I just hope nope the narrative. These things will be more cohesive and they'll be a story line that we care about and they won't be play so Boston news with evidence other than that the actors it does a good. The choices for the the actors is wonderful I just think we need better storytelling. Yeah you said it perfectly. I I do like this this cast I I like a lot about this. Cast and and the interactions when they give them a chance to to play together to to be the the titans they do it. Well I think the costumes look good. I think Titan Tower looks good the world is good but they you can't you've I've got to have some substance and you've got to have some decent storytelling what I hope they do. is they do like what we think. Watchman has done what we think other people get together figure out the story you WanNa tell break it down totally. Write all the Scripts Review Review. And make sure everything's tight and then start filming back to you Charles. Well he goes didn't leave me much digital So Oh yeah so. Obviously you know we. I've talked about this as a writer. I was very frustrated with the pacing of the season. As a whole. I thought it could have been told. Hold a lot better a lot of a lot of things especially you know the back half for such a strong first half of the season. It was so frustrating when when the final third this season goes right down hill. And you know it just it. All logic goes right out the window just for some cheap emotional personal drama that that really was unnecessary. And it just made things you know completely nonsensical and you're just really being disrespectful to your audience. I agree and and so it's as it gets so frustrating that knowing that like just give me fifteen minutes in the writer's room to kind of direct things a little bit because I would just I would love to tinker with this and fine tune it before or you get it out there but You know obviously I'm not in a position but So I just have to hope that everybody there. The you know learns again from their lessons from this season and gives us a better season three going forward. Absolutely all right so Nick really appreciate it. I thought job once again So if you obviously we're going to be heading into our off season but if you want to keep tabs on what Jesse and I are doing We're GONNA be you know we're we're going to be going. We're we're GONNA actually talking. We're finishing up watchman season one but nick thankfully he's going to be joining us for our big crisis on infinite earths discussion as we discuss parts one two and three of the. Cw Aero Verse Crossover Event. And we'll be discussing that on the Phantom Zone. PODCAST podcast so If you appreciate it if you guys jump over there while we're kind of an in the off season as we wait for doom patrol season two and twenty twenty twenty We're GONNA be talking that and Obviously having a lot of fun so if you enjoy what we do here please check us out on the fan zone podcasts. Especially for a crisis. Discussion Inner watchmen discussion as well because. Hey that's been such a great show and if you want to reach us over there you can obviously just We're on twitter at Phantom. It was own pot phantom zone. Cast over there or you can reach us The Phantom Zone podcast on facebook or instagram at Phantom Zone podcast gassed. Or you know. We're also on itunes and Apple podcasts and all kinds of other wherever you get your podcast. If you tighten talk you can probably find us right there on the fan of podcast so neck Before we get into our shameless plugs. How about you where? Where can they reach you on the webs well I you know for delisted list is when it comes to me? I am the host of the skin cigarettes radio show where Sunday from eleven am to three PM. Et Play the very best country music from Alabama ZAC Brown for him into that you can go to whisky and cigarettes..
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"Even for this but it's not his fault why is he. was He torturing Portuguese self like this. We were just left stunned about why you know why everyone feels this way. Yes yes it was horrible that Jericho died but but you know dextrose the one that killed him. Yeah and you know or at least you know at the time we thought he was dead and you know we were a little bummed. I know a lot of people who obviously weren't familiar with the comics Didn't quite understand. His powers were just stunned. Or like you know why did you. Why did you kill off this great character Jericho night in here? I'm going well. He's probably not dead. You probably say that from the beginning I was one of my never did that. Jericho was still alive. Out there and Yeah thankfully I was proven right on that one because I I would have been bombed jerk state dead in that regard because I was a great character. Still do and I'm glad that he's not out of the picture for sure though it was. I was a little bummed about that. They killed Gillian in this story. Because I find her very intriguing and I want to know more about jillions relationship with the Amazons and especially Donna so yeah maybe we could find out more in a flashback because God knows titans loves its flashbacks may do love their flash so maybe in season three. We'll get more but if we don't Yeah it was just a little. It seemed like a little bit of a letdown in that regard. But I don't know why Titans are blaming Dick for that all all right moving on episode nine atonement where we finally get an episode title. Not named after one of the characters ray written by Geoffrey David Thomas directed by Boris Mode. Suss Sqi excuse me And this one get Dick finally coming clean about Jericho's death to t- and instead of going okay. You know that happened we ended. We understand understand what happened now. We're not happy but okay We're here for you. You know. This had to be a horrible secret. You are keeping no. They're just like okay that's it we're Outta here we're done by and everybody walks out one by one some for just being pissed off summer just the little you need to get away right now for whatever reason and the only one left behind his car so dick addict lease in charge of Titans Tower in Garb these him and to watch over connor who is still recovering. And so- guard guard decides after conor finally wakes up. Dick Guard takes him out on for a little field trip and which goes horribly horribly wrong. So so So Jesse what are your thoughts on this one. One day today were rediscuss where season two on the titans went horribly wrong went horribly wrong when got off the trail when the rails yet you will we will point to this episode and say yes. This is where it happened. See episode nine there is just Almost nothing good about the episode And just the everyone being unhappy The blaming each other I mean yes. There are individual moments Gar. Like Hey I'm GonNa be this guy you know within three days he's you know he's bored they're just is Too Much Just too much ugliness in this and I just was really really unhappy and especially with the ending where you know. Dick gives himself. Yep Yeah Yeah. That was the Yeah that was just a very frustrating. I think nick how about you. Excuse me I was suddenly agreed with Jesse as well as in if you wanted to give us a mood. Killer mission accomplished because they they did everything I think in this case the writer. Jeffrey David Thomas everything in his power to depress US and and I think if anything that's wrong you had to go wrong between hang condoling breaking up a dick of Being Super Preston self denying himself to be arrested. wjr Corey Kidding Day. Already have full force. She was kind of forced to. Yeah exactly because black black possessing a body so that was that as well so and and the the the voice thing was it started on such a almost a fun notes because you kind of see what happens when when gosling the towel walk. He's trying to you know pasta time and and there's Jesse was saying he just gets bored. What am I gonNA do now? Let's see what I can do and see Satan finds work for the idle hands. Yes indeed well said and so. That's why we get of course gossiping on her in public. And that's that's crazy isn't concealing so yes or no not a particularly good episode and I think he was. Where the shall we say using the comparison? The hockey season of the Canadians. This is when the some began and the cracks was starting to show and I wasn't particularly happy with this episode like I really hope. They redeem themselves in episode ten. Yeah Yeah this is definitely where we started. Feeling very skeptical about the how the season was gonNA turn out and And the direction of the show. I totally agree very all right. Everybody's OK there. All right so every and so all right. So let's move on episode ten fallen also written by once again by Jamie Goldenberg directed by Kevin Sullivan and this is our big Dick Grayson Imprison Episode Assode Aka Cool Hand Dick so cursory to the King County Correctional Facility. Dick meets a a couple of immigrants and helps them Get back to Corto Maltese. Only to end up Thrown into solitary as a result. So we thought at the time. Well we can't have a worse episode surprise yes you can. Yeah and and I remember You and I both. I was more captain grumpy though. You were Denier Arguing against me. I understood being canopy. Yes because there was just there is no logic and I I will it just it was bad storytelling how he would be imprisoned that quickly. What his what his You know what was his plan. Land How would you know they could move this forward. How would not the other titans find out about it? How would bruce let that happen? There is just nothing logical about this episode and accomplishes nothing. And that's wow. That's the Nice version. That is the nicer version. If you want to hear the full expurgated version check out our fallen review all right nick. Nick how about you well I I will agree once. We didn't get particularly good episode. Ti Jamie Gorham. Bug did not do a particularly good job in this one compared to what she had done previously with Aqua ads which was a bit of a shame because she had started the race strong episodes I agree that would too many plot holes in this episode and but it seems that you know? DC in general. Maybe likes to see that characters in prison because You know I love it when in the comics when Bruce Wayne went to prison that was well even when when Arrow went to prison. That was okay when all of queen was imprisoning was okay. It wasn't great here. I have to go to prison so the show us that and I mean what was the point of the whole immigration thing and I wanted to help the emigrants either. They were trying to make a political statement. I don't know just need to find a reason. An excuse for the night wing myth and so that's what the concept of its but but it was very. It was very kind of heavy handed and very very strange. Like okay. Yeah we get it. He sees the VM. Drawing the silhouette of a birds on the whirlwinds. Okay it's going to be my symbol. Yeah you could've done it a little bit better from other. That's very happy with seeing mostly Greg's again who's one of the saving graces oath. This season The fact that she has been splendid throughout really enjoyed her outside of that this episode was not so one of the good ones it was the second consecutive defeat for the titans on this season. Yeah Yeah especially with that little side traffic side trip with Rachel ending up with a bunch of runaways that ultimately led to nowhere. I don't know what's the whole purpose of that was apart from. Just give Rachel something to do. All right. Eight episodes lava N. E. L. Underscore. Oh and this is written by Bianca. Sam's once again directed by millicent. Shelton Alton and this is the episode where Dick Realizes. Hey Jericho is still alive and de-stress body which is something. I've been screaming fast. Three episodes Assads and Corey. Rachel Donna and dawn are alert to the elko diner in Nevada by what they believe. Is Bruce Wayne in an attempt to reunite the team so Nicholas Start with you on this one. What were your thoughts on this one? Okay this episode was slightly etsa because we finally do. Dick finally woke up and realized like Oh the Jericho's alive you know it's like what am I doing here at you. You Know Pat Yourself on the back for the for that one buddy but it's so he so that that was a little bit irritating but other than that I thought it was. It seemed the titans. Finally come back together in this whole idea of this mysterious elko Dina and then meeting up together in such I write. Enjoy that parts of the of the story of the episode. Does it will end. But the fact is you know what what's really got me. Is Everybody's trying to get hold of Dick. The phones needs phones off we. These key keeps getting to voice. Message put to into together people and they find the dates. Oh maybe something's happened to the guy that's maybe watch the news or find out added. Something's happened to him. So that was. That was a little bit frustrating. But I'm glad they finally got Rachel. Rachel Corrie to to go rescue him which was which was which is good bothering that. They were trying to scan clean up the mess. From the previous two episodes. I felt yeah. They go there and Dick's gone so we bring the prison for nothing. Jesse how about you. Y- I was a little bit happier with this I I I was. I was glad to see Dick work through his illness You know they kind of talk about about. He's delirious a little bit because he's got a fever He works through his subconscious talking to him. You're missing something you're missing something and He goes through this now so I was happy I was happier I really really enjoyed enjoyed the Going to the diner And you know that we were able to give E. HE LO- puns on the podcast Yes if we hit the ditch this is where we started going back up. Yeah yeah the I I love personally. I loved the idea finally getting to see the female titans in the scene together. Yes it was great to see that a little bit. Although you've had Bruce Wayne or at least oh you know Wayne S- planing essentially which was a great line which is a great line but.
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"Luther can't Kansas home thinking it's the chance but it's actually Lionel's home and Dan because he doesn't realize that. Hey well I've got half of Lex Luther as memories inside me. Not Just Superman's being superman clone Mercy were we're introduced in mercy graves Nellie mead who does of Stellar Job I think is mercy in this season accompanied by eve. Watson GENEVIEVE angels sent. Who I thought was phenomenal and We're really would've loved has seen more of her especially in this Titan. Season two finale alley which we'll talk about but I thought she should have been the one that talked superbowl down from his mind. Control on that one and Roy also had conner confronting Eve eve kind of giving catching Connor up on what cadmus has been up to taking him around the other facilities to help. Better understand himself and She warned him that he needs to flee but she also warns that he needs to not draw attention to himself by using his powers. Qatar ends up of course disobeying her. Because when he sees Jason Following from that scaffolding appaling From the skyscraper and saves him only to end up getting shot by kryptonite bullets from mercy graves and and her team. So poor crypto gets taken into custody with Kryptonite collar and I was very upset about that. So lots going on in this one. The what's your take on our super boy. Well as you know. I had the privilege of discussing this episode with you in full Charles and I believe that both of us were very very happy with this episode of and so much going on in this Between the the introductions that we had of pizza McNeil who does a great job line will definitely a very different line will new from the one that we got for example in small bill from John. Exactly because you and the concept of the fact that the Luther as as was mentioned mentioned in color episode we were used to being a very affable very wealthy family. And you see this man in you know in motion modest surroundings roundings compared to what you think of a Lusa as it were and salsa those very interesting just to wait he played him as this kind of you know retired. Scientists whose news He's kind of lost his vision. Who has definitely has a drinking problem and such and as I was that was brilliant? Not Mention the relationship between even connor. It was wonderful and which made me so mad that we didn't get anything more from that's as the season progressed because it seeing this point of the season forgot about Genetic Banjul Sin at one point and the kindness of most which was a great shame because She did a wonderful job as eve. What's that relationship I think was one of the most beautiful and well? Oh done relationships in this in this series and hey you doesn't love Crypto as we mentioned whoever trained that dog and a wonderful job dog he's a stellar actors. Will Definitely Jesse how about you. Yeah I wasn't I was travelling so I didn't get to be on this show To talk about this there is nothing not to love in this episode even though it takes us from our main storyline It's so well done. I can't complain that we kind of take aside trip. Because it's such a great side trip. I Love everything about the characters. I love the evilness of You Know Mercy I love eaves you know coming thing own. Our own. Connor was just naive enough. I agree with you. Guys on Crypto. It is just how can you not crypto. Yeah Yeah just a great take on What's going on and You know and I do agree that that Joshua or pin great super boy Absolutely I agree with you. You guys I wished eve had come back later in the season Yeah and I agree. the Great Peter McNeil playing. Line a loser you know. Oh he is perfect That you would be this. He was a someone who's poor in that LEX would want to distance from so yeah great stuff all right. Yeah I totally agree and you know obviously Jesse and I are huge superman fans so so We were very geeking hard about this episode. Especially you know the idea of Crypto and using his powers and whatnot. We were very happy and orphan was great of pretty much dead on per Take on Geoff. Johns is Version of conner Kent Super Boy from mm his run of of teen. Titans like the two thousand three era and And I was very happy. I was very satisfied with that. All right. So let's move on episode. Seven Bruce Wayne more yes more boring episode titles written by Brian Edward Hill. Oh who's writing a lot of current. DC comics these days directed by Akiva Goldsman. And I believe I've mentioned this to you Jesse that I definitely prefer for Akiva Goldsman as director to a writer. I think you did I just loved this episode I I love that in Dick's mine. His father figure is is talking to him to. That's giving him this feedback. Akis fighting all the different images and the has It's really well done as Dick's is going through his processes of what he has to do And and I've been a fan you know from beginning. I thought England was. Is this great. You Know Batman I I just really like him as Bruce Wayne and So at this point you and I are feeling man. This season is rolling on. They're just they are leaving season one in the dirt we have just got men. They'll show couric green. Yes yes absolutely yes. It was very yeah it was ecstatic. Nick how `bout you once again. Yes just like Jesse said it was very interesting thing. This time around we'd we had a hallucinate loose station of Bruce Wayne competitive the real thing. And just I guess the mate this episode in general you dealt with this theme shall we say Mental issues psychological issues. One Hand we have dick being plagued seeked with these hallucinations of Bruce Wayne on the other. We have Jason told contemplating suicide. So you know it was a big meant to say dealt with log psychological precaut- very psychological episode and me being a huge fan of the psychological realm. I just ate this episode opt for that reason because of the way they tried to put the way the truck they tried to show the issues. The P the we even go through his regular people when day-to-day basis. Where in our heads? We have these is conversations with ourselves and decide to as personify them by giving Dick on in this case a A Bruce Wayne to talk to as it were and and on the other hand you know to handle such a difficult difficult issue like suicide and suicidal tendencies and it was so we'll handle without being being as pandering in any way preannouncing. Yeah exactly because of course. It's a very very very difficult issue to tackle when it can go horribly Wrigley wrong if you do it the wrong way and so I thought it was absolutely beautiful episodes and yes indeed. Eat Me in Glenn Please for sure. Yeah Iain Glen was obviously the star of this episode episode He's because he being up a hallucination he's not like Jesse said he's not strictly Bruce Wayne in this story he's he's Dick's idea of Bruce Wayne now going through the Dick Grayson filters so to speak. And consequently he gets to play him Bruce. A little differently and bruce gets to go do wacky things like there's great moment where he he jumps onstage at this burlesque club and starts doing the Batu see from the nineteen sixties Batman TV show which Jesse and I being older than dirt. We're geeking out really hard about Yes we were the just how cool that was. Due to kind of give Adam West Batman a check in this one just You know lots of great moments and again this is it was so great to kind of see Bruce and Dick Talking to Kinda get the you know that little insight and get a little better understanding understanding of how Dick Views Bruce the downside though. This is the first episode where I was seriously questioning Dick's mental illness or addiction mental health. You've really Because for one thing his guilt is pressing on him so much. Now it's causing hallucinations and at this point. Wait I'm going dude. Talk to somebody find a therapist. You know what are you doing. You know you're you're going off. You're doing all this stuff. And this isn't normal. You should not be experiencing loose nations. I'm sorry And if you are you need to talk to somebody about that before something serious happens. And then meanwhile yeah you've got You know the the whole thing with You know like the What is it here? We've you've got Yeah Jason Contemplating suicide over his his trauma over almost being killed and You Know Eve shows the tower. After freeing crypto where she finds connor died from Kryptonite poisoning and then eve informs corey that only connor can only be saved using solar radiation. So there's this great scene where Corey with Ravens. Help Rachel help the they kind of create this little solar flare within Titans Tower. Why they didn't take him outside to do this idea because they scorched the hell out of that floor floor but but okay? They saved the day and even though connor ends up going back in a coma afterwards. So so great eight episodes fun little one fun little diversion but this is this point. We you know we were concerned because it wasn't really driving the story. I think you you kind of a accused of being a little bit of Filler. If I'm not mistaken yeah absolutely. It was fun filler But yes absolutely to feel that way all right all right right Moving on episode eight Jericho director written by Kate McCarthy directed by TOA Frazier and in this this one We get the story of the Titans essentially manipulating Jericho invite him to drink some beers on the beach with them and in order to pump him for information about death stroke They do like the kid. So it's not and this is where they kind of are starting to feel conflicted because of you know Hank and dawn especially are like you know. This kid's great. Why are we treated? Why are we doing this to him? But Dick is focused on getting death. Stroke and Donna definitely wants death stroke because of wanting her vengeance for aqua lad absolutely they pressed forward with this and so they recruit Jericho into the team of they start to they tell us they actually opened up though With don underdogs advice addict like finally relents and opens up to Jericho and And district Kinda learns a that the You know that Of the titans contact contact with Jericho after Killing Jillian and severely injured Donna as a way for warning to stay away from his son so Dick Responds by confronting death. Stroke and Prompting a fight that ends in districts favor and but before district can kill l.. Dick however desk stroke jumps in front of his father's Blade and get stabbed and his body dies and as we find out it's just as by and of course this is what leads to the titans breaking up originally so See where do we leave out yet. So so nick. What are your thoughts on this one? Well we were told me the wave outfitter episodes in the fact that They tend to do a back back and forth between them. What happens to set up Jericho and things of this nature member in this case? You probably you had to do this. especially I believe the end of episode seven ended with Dick Saying I killed his son right and everybody was like kind of how to decode son. I WanNa know how he killed his son so obviously this quite this episode answer. That question didn't and it was a very strong at the the answer was very strong. One indeed You have to hand it to the way Jericho was was portrayed. It was absolutely brilliant. You love this guy so much and just like in the corner episode. Thank gods. They didn't keep the secret for him from him for ages ages as as writer so wants to do in the TV series. You know the guy never knows until the end and everybody's like oh it's a whole big deal and it's crazy and this was handled very well. That's Dick comes out. You know not immediately but shortly after and explains Jericho what's going on and surprise surprise Jericho's Rico's cool with it it's like are you lied to me for so many months now you're telling me etc so that was very well handled and that people should really take notes from that. What's the fight? The fight was wonderful and of course it was very Hot Wrenching Gut wrenching when Jericho bodied is because unbeknownst uh-huh uh-huh survive but the view is like. Wow you know the kid just got killed like that and and just really left you kind of totally gutted and of course this leads the titans disbanding so another gr episodes short and Jessie how about you. Yeah I think this was good I you know certainly certainly I had a little bit of problem in you know. This is where we go into Monday runner and quarterbacking I think I told the story in the original discussion of very early in Linden is marriage. we made it agreement that we would. We would not go back and ever say well. I didn't think this was a good idea. You know we set the sandwich that if we're making a decision and if you disagree with the a decision speak now or do not try to second-guess Isis Because of the time to say that was then and I felt that same way about the titans you know after the fact where everything goes poorly. Well I don't know if we should use Jericho way we did and we were like okay. We were all in agreement with this now. Then you want to change your mind Because you've seen the results That was my only net. Pick of the episode I thought this was powerful full. I thought it was well done and And then you know we could say no. I understand why Dick thinks he should feel guilty. Not About Killing Jerko. But he did not cause the death. Yeah yeah that was that was that was my issue with that as well as that we we. We finally got to see the death scene and we got to see how the events played out and after watching that. We're we're left going wait. Everybody's he's blaming Dick for Jericho's death.
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"Donna start harboring romantic feelings feelings for one another. But Donna starts off resisting garth's advances. Because she says the Amazons are requiring her to return to Emma scared of when actually she's just being real skittish about the whole thing wanting lead to another though they ended up back into GARTH's room and and Have Sex. Hey Ray we actually get to having sex again not since Dick and Kory right in season. One Yes garth FERNS From Dick that data will be leaving immediately and then when garth appeared confronts Donna at the airport to persuade her to stay on a Balmy armie gets shot and killed by death. Stroke Donnas and this at this point you know Donna realizes that she was indeed in love with Aqua ladd had and the surviving members of the team. At least at this point we think that You know they're they're wondering if aqua was the target. Although Jesse listen. I had expressed her suspicions that he wasn't the target right. We were thinking. Maybe Donna was the target for some reason but turned out a something else and the the regular the surviving members of the team. They they identify district as guards killer and they dedicate themselves to hunting him down and then we see Dick Confronting Jericho in a record store to kind of Cozy up to him unaware that That Jericho being unaware that Dick wants revenge against his father. So we get introduction of Jericho and add line So so Let's let's start with you nick on this one. So what was your take on on Jericho. One of the titans from the comics and And especially Ashley Awkward. Who only appears in this episode? So far at least in flesh I really really enjoyed this episode. An interesting the fact it was written by somebody whose main work was on. Desperate housewives don ebbs and shows like Donna and Greg but it may be that Jamie Gordon Bug carried this idea of once again interpersonal relationships. From those shows into this episodes I came to drew. Vanak as is is God's Aqua that I thought he was perfect fit and funding of I was whenever I was watching. I was trying to imagine him. At Jason Momoa side it was aqua knock will add yet. They could work together and and I really enjoyed that and I thought relationship between Donald Goth was great though the at the same time a little bit on edge when you guys GonNa do already you know can just get on. You know. It's coming and sure but yes. So so that you know air in inverted commas irritated me a little bit but I was like okay. They just WANNA keep on teasing that they eventually go to sleep even save though have shall we say a romantic relationship and so i. I really enjoyed that in your seeing Jericho for the first time. And Not Loving Judas contract attract. That was a huge thing for me as well and as we will see with the Russian of the series Jericho was really really well handled. I feel at least the most arts But and I think also maybe this episode suffered from game of thrones itis because the faculty introduced Debt so that it it was a very strong in poignant death obviously it gave Donna and the rest of the team that resolution and that's Desire to to have a mission as lesser narrative. It makes sense. It's a shame because I would have liked to have seen more awkward. But I understand way Jamie Gordon Bug was going with this. Yeah I'm going to step in and say the same thing this if I remember correctly we both ranked this episode really high just There is a lot to like we get to see a pre death. Titans we get to see them back and forth we get to see dawn and and Dick together as a really cool couple You know Hank is you know is just there is a friend We we love. I love Garth. I love seeing that. I loved him and Donna's their flirting back and forth Everything was just perfect in this episode. And and I agree with you nick. I would have liked to have more time with Garth as has occupied but I understand what they were trying to do. But if I had a way I would have liked to had a couple of episodes of the classic Titans doing a few other. You know battles or fights and more time together Drew Van acker was in A A very very little known Tower prep. I think I talked about that when we did this war. Yes and it's it's one of really loved that Cartoon Network Work Live Action Series and I think it's a shame that we don't get to see more of him but I think because how good he was at help sell us being very upset at his death. Yeah because I think we talked about this Jesse was that they. They had to do a lot in this episode. They had introduced uncle. Add Give a little back story. Develop that relationship between him and Donna Bring them together and then make you care about him. to make you feel that when once he gets killed off on top of everything else in top of introducing introducing Jericho on top of introducing ad line. And so there was a lot going on in this episode and And it's and it. It was very skillfully. Done that That it works so well and even though yet drew van acker he wouldn't be wouldn't have been my first choice for primarily because he doesn't have black hair like alka lead in the comics. But you know I thought he did at a great job He was very likable. You kinda see it. He does Canada have essentially like Nick said he's he's essentially like the Jason Momoa Amoah version of Aqua Latte. You know he's he's got a little bit of a beard going longer hair And so you could definitely kind of see him working with memo as Walkman in that regard But I I thought he had great chemistry with Connor. Leslie and of course again. You know like Jesse. I'm sure would back me up on this anytime you have a Connor Leslie spotlight episode. As wonder girl that means the show. Titans is a lot better there with her in. So yeah the more Donna. The better as far as titans this concern for me anyway My wife Lori had a little bit of a problem with the relationship relationship because she as she points out you know like Donna was never involved with Aquila. They never had anything going on in the comics their zero interest there but she went along with it and you know could at least okay. For the premise of the show she accepted it and they killed off. Lead right away okay. So it wasn't that big of a deal for her. Yeah and I was okay with them. Changing some of the continuity you know to make picket is unique place you know because You know we wouldn't have had an impact with If a Terry charactered coming commonplace yeah They've already established that we don't need terry long at all no you know Dick and Donna are brother and sister By far you know a a loving sibling relationships. I thought this was really nice. The way this worked out it it was really good so I I was. I think this would be definitely one of the highlights of This season and the and another highlight for me was Chela. Man Is Jericho One of the things. I think I've talked about during this past season. I have a nephew who signs so I was really looking forward to Jericho making his debut and You know obviously Jericho's death. He's mute so there's a little bit of a difference but they do have a deaf actor playing Jericho and I thought show. A man was very likeable and you kind of rooted for them them like. Oh you can't betray this guy. He's too nice and And it kind of makes what Dick and the other original titans were doing a little underhanded and a little unpleasant. Shall we say all right so Any other thoughts guys about this episode. A all right movie. Only thing I'd throw in. Guess is you understand why they're being underhanded. Yes you know. The the the pain of losing this Team member now will later go back and complain at least I will retroactively the teams like Oh. I can't believe you did that to Jericho. And you're like wait a minute. We were all holding hands. We were all. This was the plan plan but We'll get to that in a little bit. Yeah it's it's everybody dumps on Dick Grayson and blamed him for it but it's like We kind of make this pack together as I recall. Aw obviously now have it on video so yet we've got proof all right Living on episode five death stroke in the latest of our uninteresting episode titles written by New Writer Bianca Sam's and directed by Nick Gomez and in this one Right after we kind of pick up you know with a cliffhanger of hey remember Jason. He was kidnapped by death. Stroke well following that abduction. Death stroke finally has enough off of doctor light whose annoying all get out kills him so get by Dr Late we hardly knew ye Tells the heroes that he'll release Jason in exchange for rose not knowing of course that stroke in rows are working together as we find out later in the season The original titans and Catch Corey up and she finally shows up on what's been going on and Gar Rachel and Rose Eavesdrop on their conversations and this this is where we get our first look at the kind of generational split with the titans the original titans and then the newer titans the new teen eighteen tight. The new titans. Shall we say you know Gar. Rachel and and rose Corey so kind of realizing that the original titans have a lot of baggage and they're keeping secrets from them. They're talking you know. There's there seems to be this divide in the group and we have of more of Rachel's unstable powers and Dick telling his teammates that they plan to Ambush de Stroke Under the guise of making the exchange but dick ends up going completely off the map off the grid on this one And Decides to privately offer his life for Jason because hey he feels guilty over what happened with Jericho and So he's willing to let that death stroke kill him in exchange as long as he leaves everybody else alone. And this is where we get a great cliffhanger with Jason bound to scaffold rig with explosives and Corey and Dick have a great little three way fight between those two in stroke but of course death stroke activates the explosives explosives sending Jason Falling from the skyscraper Dunton. So there's a lot there Jesse. Let's start with you would you. What do you think about this one so I remember number really liking the fight? I thought this was a good Set up the the cliffhanger was well done John This is where I you know I I. We did recommend we did say because we knew the title in advance they will ignore this episode and we will spend the whole next episode talking about Connor and the only way. I'm going to be happy as at the end of the episode Connor flies up and Saves Jason. That's not going to happen and then it did happen. Yeah I thought this was another good episode. I you know. We've got Rachel Dr Power. I I was upset. She wasn't talking to someone about this but I kinda get that You know at this point. We're rolling along pretty. Well yes we are. Yeah things are moving. The pieces. Great the season seems to be moving forward with an agenda The flashbacks are going a little frustrating straight especially with the cliffhangers but But otherwise yeah things are clicking. Pretty Good Nick. How `bout you? What are your thoughts on this one? I would definitely Echo Jesse's thoughts and your votes oats. I believe to Charles when when I think that yes here we were. The team was very tight they were they were doing things. Well the fights very well choreographed. the in the pace of the episode in general was just stellar. I feel we went. We will going places constantly so you know they they. They would always had the viewers attention. And of course we have the cliffhanger at the end which I which you I talked about this in the Conrad as well which which was little bit reminiscent somewhat. Shall we say to death in the family to Batman that the family where you know you have a Roman at the mercy of a billion and it seems seems like they're not GonNa make an is it will. He make women teammates and I believe. DC actually teased when this episode ads and outside it was I I did I. I did point out though there was no crowbar involved. Yeah exactly you know Grove on this time. They decided to up the ante with explosives so that was a that was a good walk but I it was. It was just a great episode re enjoyed it. And and and deftly handle wanting more and looking forward to episodes from this season so the things are moving around long nicely so That meet leads us right into episode six connor written by Richard a Tim Directed by Alex Kalymnos embryos and this is our big super boy debut. Josh Orphan makes his debut. And I think it's a very strong debut as super boy although he's not quite super bowl yet to say we are introduced to him in metropolis where subject thirteen escapes from cadmus. Labs with Crypto. Oh yes we got crypto and He was very that was very cool. essentially starts wandering around metropolis and and Ends up taking a bus to Lionel..
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"The Voice of have Batman from Batman the animated series whose reprising The role of Bruce Wayne in the upcoming crisis event for the. CW that we're GONNA talk about. Yeah how great it would be if conroy provided the voice to England's Bruce Wayne you'd have like the perfect Older Batman I think. Yeah I agree and yeah all right anything else about this episode before we move on all right no no episode number. Two rows rose Written by Richard Tam Directed by Nathan Hope. And this is where we've kind of pick up a little bit of a time lag. Three months months after try guns defeat where Dick Training The younger new titans in San Francisco. Rachel's powers are starting to act a little wonky and and Dick Rescues female. Many human on the run by the name of Rose Wilson and who gets identified as de Strokes daughter her and we catch up with Hank and Dawn Hawk and dove who have retired to wyoming but tensions Kind of a R raised a little bit when Hank discovers that dawn's operating is dove and we catch up with Corey. Anne Donahue apparently been crimefighting in a van in Chicago go where they capture the rogue Meta human shimmer from the fearsome five in the DC comics and then Don Hankins. Don are forced to reunite when Dick with Dick Grayson when Dr Arthur lights escapes from prison and begins targeting. The Titans. So there's there's a lot going on here. We get the interaction of rose. We get the introduction of Doctor Light and we also get the brief introduction of Day played by Robbie Jones Corey's fellow Tam Iranian so Let's start with Nick. Time Nick Nick what were your thoughts. That's on the new characters that we got in this episode and how they kind of being really the first full season two episode okay. Full first of. Let's just look at the title here as you know to a fellow who. VN's yourselves you see title like this. Yes and you hope that is riding on that because you know how much that title means to. Obviously because of of course was the very first episode of new and it was the bringing back of doctors so when I saw that this better be good because see how much I love that I was really really hoping that this rose we just as good and I was very pleasantly surprised and happy about this episode thing here was when we started to see. Should we say a departure. From I'm the more lucrative mediocrity had been the first episode and go problems that had plagued the first episode. I really really enjoyed this one. I mean the fact that we introduced I used to rose. Who is brilliantly? Played a wonderful job of and of course the I think tightens is at its best when hand does the interpersonal relationships between the characters. The fact that you get to see what these people are like when they're not donning costumes or in the August two as regular people and I really appreciated that and I love the fact they split everybody often and kind of you got the chance to kind of be with the this almost a single go. CACTUS for awhile I love that I loved also the appearance of Shimla as well and of course for day I. I'm a big fan in general so it's very nice to see for day and just why this is probably one of my favorite episodes of the season. How about you Jesse? What are your thoughts on this one if I remember correctly okay I really liked this episode? I think We kind of got on a good roll I like the interaction between the teams. It was good to see Hank and dawn moving there We really liked You know Corey having someone from her home world and that interaction action between that so yeah this was a really really good episode. Set up things well An and I I at this point. We're feeling pretty. Good about okay. We've gotten rid of trying on stuff. Now we're going to set up the story that if you're a titan comic fan you're like okay this is you know I'm seeing the parts of the You know the the famous story line and this is good. Yeah yeah so I was really happy. Yeah what you Charles. Yeah I was too. I love Chelsea's Zhang as Rose Wilson. I thinks he's terrific. And the role. Wigan all and you know she she she definitely has roses attitude especially you could see her definitely. Definitely being district's daughter she definitely sold that and you know Doctor Light. I was a little disappointed by we talked about this that his armor was a bit cheesy cheesy and not quite what we expected from the comics and You know for day was an interesting interesting concept that you know we. This is our first. Tam Rainy and other than Corey were introduced to and apparently we find out later on. We'll talk about that that he has a history with corey but for right now he just kinda kidnaps her and we're wondering what's up with this I love the idea of Corey. Donna fighting crime and van in Chicago. I was just going to bring that up. Those were some of the best scenes of the of the season where corey is just Kind and if tormenting Donna by constantly playing seventies disco music and Donna just begging for at least a little bit of eighties once in a while And I love the the the the tone seemed a bit more on track than we had seen all in just about just just about all of season blind if kind of felt like this was the first episode where the the show is finally finding itself and yes and we were starting to hope nope again. Yeah Yeah So. That's my take anyway all right anything else about this episode. Yeah all right moving on episode three ghosts written by Tom. PABST directed by Kevin Tancharoen. And this is the episode. Where Donna Hancock? Dawn show back up at Titans Tower. Our who get notified by Dick. Hey de stroke. Remember death stroke the guy that You know Caused us to break up in the first first place while he's back in the city pursuing rows and rows reveals to Dick that she's attempting to assassinate district because he killed her brother Jericho. Which obviously we know now that Hey Dick knows a little bit more about that than he's telling and We find that death stroke is working together together with doctor light on his plans to Learn the hero separate the weaker members from the group and You know that We have Jason Getting Guard to go look for him on their own. Which of course go sideways? and Jason Defeats Doctor Light but thank gets ambushed by right district leaving to a great cliff hanger and we we kind of find out. Today's deal with with Corey that apparently her sister black fire WHO's mentioned for the first time here orders? Her to return to Tam ran to become Queen and I guess let's see what it also Koreans up trapping for day ship and Corey gets a call from Rachel Encouraging her to return to her friends so Jesse let's go with you What's your thoughts on this episode? Yeah if I really liked this episode We kind of get the return of the titans we see a you know. Some Nice Banter between the team We we get our first Just image of Garth. We don't get much You know but we do get to see him You know so so this was a you know at this point. We're feeling pretty good about the season like they're moving really well so I like the idea that that the team is starting to settle in They feel like they're back at home. You know they know where their rooms. Aren't we talk about that. So I I like that. I was pretty happy with this episode and Nick. How about you? Well the first thing that you chose you mentioned Dr Lights Armagh. I'm a being a little bit campion. Cheese definitely agree with you on that but what I will say is if they ever do a live action version of them of the Justice League. Identity Crisis Won't Michael knows the playoff light because you really liked him in the role. Yes because you know loving that story so much being one of my favorite justice stories. He he did encapsulates. A lot of what's doctor like is that off from you. Know The lecherous side of him right but that cruelty in that sadism was very much. Michael played it really really well in that sense nice. It's so this is a doctor light straight from identity density crisis absolutely love that. And you know you guys were saying just you know seeing the team getting together enduring things it was it was wonderful because as exciting. This is where we start to see that some everything gelling well. The team wasn't together. The the season together with super super hyped about the old and I just wanted to see more of course as soon as black fire was mentioned. I was super excited because this. Wow they radio they're going to Guts to throw in so many different characters at us out so I was happy but I was concerned at the same time because I said to myself. They're working with along the things here. I hope they can juggle them all and with these so far with this episode. It did seem that way and absolutely loved it from start to finish. Yeah Jesse and I kind of expressed that concern. Once they mentioned black fire. I believe if I recall correctly Jesse feel free to correct. You're right that You know we were wondering you know. Look they've got a lot in their play you know they're doing the Judas contract storyline they introducing characters. We haven't met super bowl yet and so they do they. I really WANNA be throwing in the Black Fire Saga on top of that and thankfully as it turned out they just kinda teased it throughout the season. They didn't really dwell on it much. It wasn't it wasn't obtrusive so so I definitely appreciated that because you know. Hey you know. They've got plenty to talk about. Let's focus on what what you've have Don't get greedy. Save that for season three if you get it and sure enough. That's what they're doing. It looks like all right Anything else about this episode. All right moving on this is a big one episode. Four Aquila add. This was US written by Jamie Goldenberg directed by Glenn Winter who tends to direct the rather big special effects episodes of the CW Arrow verse among others. And this is a big one so we've got We kind of get We pick up a five years before the present where an assignment intimate sends desk to San Francisco where Jericho and his mother. Add liner hiding so we kind of get a little introduction to Jericho and add a line assisted by the a new member. Garth the AKA alcohol add the original. Titans captured Doctor Light Garth..
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"On one of your co host. Charles skaggs back in Titans Tower once again with with my fellow Titan talker Jesse Jackson and a special guest star so Jesse I how are you. I am good Charles Charles. A very excited to be kind of wrapping up the season As we We have other podcasts to discuss so. This is kind of Nice that we're able to buttoned-down Titan talk for now to move on to other things so yes and I'm always happy when we get to talk to our special guest contributor yes so here for our big titan. Talk Fiftieth episode. Can you believe it's been fifty episodes you guys. I certainly can't joining Jesse in Titans Tower. Please everyone welcome back. Dj Nick to Titans Tower Welcome DJ. Nick how're you doing. Hey Chausson Hey Jesse wh what can I say. It's wonderful your back with you and to do this with you again. We had a wonderful fulltime in our first season. Recap I think Charles would wrap is definitely very very yup poignant and meaningful seeing is is the season we are approaching the holidays. Absolutely Christmas wrapping. I get what you're doing unless you WANNA talk about. Oh maybe Christmas in Hollis by run DMC because I'm cool with that too absolutely so. Yeah so Nick is joining us all the way once again from Milan. Italy through the magic of the interwebs. So we're able to talk to him and what we're GONNA do everyone. I know Jesse and I just kind of been going through Up to this point going episode by episode doing our reviews but here for episode fifty with our Titan season to review Jesse knicker or and I are going to kind of just do an overview of the season as a whole of Titan season. Two as a whole and its ups and its downs. We'll talk about that and you know all the various new characters and And get Knicks takes primarily because hey he hasn't been on the podcast and he always had some wonderful insights so so which is kind of break down the episodes really quickly one by one. And there's thirteen of them as you as a lot of you now and I'm looking forward to getting everybody's takes exc on as we kind of time. Travel back to the beginning of the season and Jesse we never quite expected the season to turn out like it. Did it did way. No we did not. This was a bumpy A lot of good things a lot of bad things and so I'd like to hear here are gifted contributor. Guess contributor. What were your thoughts about the season Neck Nick. Well Jesse. Thank you very much for the gifted. I don't know about that but thank you very much. I think you know our feedings are pretty much. I want things. Komo trump With you guys. I would always equate this season to the season. That took the Montreal. Canadians have right now as in starting off radio ready strong strong going through a bit of a slump and you know hopefully seeing the light at the end that sounds about that. Sounds that sounds pretty fair. Sure I think I think too because there were definitely some up and downs in this season. And we'll talk about those not as smoothly as we have would have liked. I know Jesse and I after watching doom patrol season one to go back to titans and we were kind of hoping that titans would step. It's game up after season one John and to some extent I think it did I because I would think you know and just this real quick Chauhan's how many people felt that Tightened in season two is better than season. One I know I did. Yeah I would. I would say it's better. Yes how about you nick. If I had to competitor yes I would say that it was slightly better. That's how I mean it did. It did correct some mistakes in from season one but I am afraid to say that it did bring over some more you mistakes and then in our talking before we joined the pockets you know we kind of set this up over facebook's instant messaging and you mentioned that Nick that you you have one or two thoughts you'd like to share about this season so so here you go you finally get your chance to To unload and I hope you hope you're bringing both barrels to To unload your thoughts on on Titan season two. Because I'm sure you've got some great insights as always all right so I wouldn't be an Italian cowboy in Boca right exactly so aw now. So let's get to our first episode. A first episode of the new season was actually a carryover from season. One where we had the episode. Try Gone which was originally supposed to be titans episode twelve of season. One Re edited did and brought over as the first episode of Titans Season Two. This was written by Akiva Goldsman and Geoff Johns and Greg Walker the showrunner of of Titans directed by Carol banker and we got our our first episode on September. Six Twenty Nineteen Gentlemen. Start Your engines. What are what are your thoughts about the the way titans premiered season to my go to Jesse I or should we go with Nash? Bankin go you know I. I wish I had taken better notes. I could have gone back and looked look dad. That's all right. You know what I originally had Do you want. Do you want me to kind of set this up a little bit. Maybe remember the episode. I don't remember how I rated it. Okay I'm I know that I felt like I don't have my ratings either so don't worry about it. They didn't. I don't think I don't think they serve themselves swell by bringing over the try gone storyline. it was unneeded. I think you should wrap that up in the first episode again again in the last episode of last season I know I was very frustrated with the way they they wanted a cliffhanger And I just didn't care for it at at all It was okay. I guess they wrap the story line on very quickly. but I just I think it was a for my perspective. I can remember correctly it was kind of okay. We've knocked this out. We've we've kind of done what we need to do you. Now we can move forward. Yeah that sounds about right because every member Jesse that you and I talked about how this felt like kind of cleaning house cleaning episode where they had a sweep all the season one garbage away and kind of hopefully start fresh for season two absolutely. Yes so So Nick Wh. What's your thoughts on this one did you? Were you satisfied with the way it. It premiered resolving that that season one cliffhanger Dick Grayson or were you little down by the premier. Well his thing I feel this. This should definitely have been the season finale a full season one because what I saw is seeing how quickly try gone is dispatched. You're dealing with a big big villain. Yeah which could do so much with. I've felt he was kind of a mistake throwing away which I think is one of the weaknesses of this season. As I think we will see as progresses caresses how easily big villains. Could you know carry an entire season. I'll just thrown away dealt with so easily on too that credit. I understand that obviously they had to clean house and the ads of as it were make a clean breast of everything get rid of she say the rubbish from season one one but I was. I was satisfied with how trigly- was handled. Because you know you're building up this big climax you get the climax any kind of sticks around full one episode the One and one episode at the beginning of season two on the positive side. We were introduced to to Bruce Wayne. I believe on this episode which was which was definitely very cool so close to death stroke as well so those I think were the highlights of this first episode to be honest honest. The the low points I was how try going was dispatched. So you bring up a couple of good points as always Iain Iain Glen was introduced as Bruce Wayne in this episode and also East side Morales are season. Two big bad or at least one of them was introduced as well So just really quickly general guys what would you were you. I Know Jesse I know you were very happy with England as Bruce Wayne and We thought we'd indefinitely enjoyed morales anymore. Thoughts about these two. You know I've been on the record. I like them both. I thought they were good. I did WANNA go back. Just one other point chirp We talked about this. Felt like we were sweeping out. You know kind kind of cleaning out the closet right. That's what you do if you change. Show runners between the season You know like okay. We've got a new voice. We got a new showrunner. All right we need to get rid of everything that the previous administration was doing. The previous. You know T- creative team so we can start fresh. This was is the shame the show runner. This was the scene team. So I think that's a waste of. They could've done this better. Yeah I think so and Nick how about you what you what were your initial impressions of Bruce Wayne and death stroke. I was super super happy with both with both of them. Because you know we I believe you and I chose. She talked about this at some point. We took on the corner episode. So and the fact that we've got an older Bruce Wayne which was actually really cool because of the fact that Harkening to dot returns as it were and hands on. I really love that concept and I thought that they would build on that concept of this older You know more experienced wiser. Bruce Wayne which I absolutely loved and when it comes to death stroke. I think he was actually area to the death stroke. We got in the Arrow verse on the W so super super happy. Because it's such a myself. This is the stroke the eye of locked in the comics for so many years. And I'm so glad to see this kind depiction onscreen. I totally agree. Yes definitely seconded by me as well or thirty. I guess Yeah this was definitely the district I've been wanting to see. Ever since MARV Wolfman and George Perez is the new teen Titans Titans from back in the eighty s when he was first introduced. ECI With with that that cold emotionless detachment a much stronger detrick than Eros version. I mean nothing against Manu Bennett. He was a perfectly fine de stroke. But having having if you're going to compare the two I have to go with Morales I think he's. He's far his. His portrayal is just so dead on compared to the comics to what we expect from death stroke you know. He's he's intimidating his calculating and the only time the character really he stumbles in my opinion is in the Titan season. Two finale when he has kind of shows up out of nowhere to confront Donna and the female titans wins and then then a fight breaks out. When night Britain tweets shows up finally in night wing costume and we'll talk about that obviously but But yeah many Bennett was great and I know. Yeah Nick we and you and I talked about England's Bruce Wayne and I mentioned to you the idea that would be great if they did like an adaptation tation of the Dark Knight Returns with England's Bruce Wayne yes doing the physical performance with with You Know Kevin Conroy..
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"Dot Com. We'd love to hear from you and You can also reach out to us on twitter on the twitter machine at tight and talk cast. I wore on facebook Titan. Talk Titans podcast good and then also you can You know if you would go to who I tunes rate and review us. You know or apple podcasts. Rather rate and review us because that helps people find us gets a little more noticed and Aino and That would be fantastic if you would please do that so hopefully you're enjoying our little show and because we definitely enjoy talking titans with you you guys and do what you can't help it would be fab absolutely all right so Jesse working to reach you on the show you can. Dan Hear me on next up everywhere. The doctor who podcast with Eh Charles We sit there and we just recently talked a a big finish audio series Charles has guess companions that join him to talk both classic and modern doctor who check that out we he will be We're going to be discussing your Christmas Special coming up. And we're hoping that we'll be back regular episodes episodes With new in twenty twenty Don't have a premier date yet. But they are insinuating that it could be soon soon. Maybe maybe New Year's Day so so we might be having some new doctor who episodes at laugh yes on the Phantom uh-huh zone pont gas. We are currently making our way through the brilliant. Hbo Series Watchmen I it is truly something extraordinary. I am just. I am loving watching the reason I'm loving talking to Charles about it so Check US out in the Phantom Zone. If you are watching the watchmen and if you are to figure out a way to start watching it and then join us and let us know what you're thinking We just just released A episode from my buddies and I on how many where we talk Quentin Tarantino Films To talk about that yes we. We had a good discussion with that. And then of course finally set lessening Bruce Bruce Springsteen podcast where I talked to Bruce springsteen fans from around the world. When and I'm not on a podcast you can find me on twitter at Jesse Jackson? DFW and Charles. How about you yeah? Well that's that's a lot. You're busy guy. I am busy guy. All right so Everybody when you're not listening to Jesse if you would You can find me at. Ah Charles skaggs on twitter at skaggs on Instagram facebook. Of course and and Charles skaggs in Hilliard Ohio and my blog geeky things commere you little late on the draw here. Sorry about that there we go there you go so all of you out there can take take a drink For the drinking game. Do you have coffee and talk about all the stuff we talk about here on Titan talk including being Titans News Comic Book sci-fi News News about other podcasts. Do for Southgate Media Clooney for mentioned next everywhere the doctor who podcast and the Phantom Zone podcast the do which Jesse who's fantabulous as a co host and Also ghost with the twin peaks. PODCASTS sprouse West Combat Guards. Chris Brown's we're talking. About all things twin peaks David Lynch et Cetera et CETERA. And a crap ton of pop culture references so we have a lot of fun. If you've heard Anenih on next up everywhere some others we have a ball so please check us out there. It'd be definitely appreciated. Yeah all right so next time and tightened talk. It's the big finale. Everybody is a big season. Two Finale night wing is the title Obviously for obvious reasons we finally get to see Brenton thwaites suited up as night wing and Like we talked about this going to be a big night wing versus district fight round to presumably because before remember. We had robin versus desks right. Well now we have the night wing versus desk really exciting. And it looks like he's got his excrete screaming sticks and should be Pretty cool it'd it. It'd be fun to see it. Looks like dot is going to have a really interesting reaction to Dix New Superhero identity. Yeah I'm looking forward to that a lot and hopefully hopefully our favorite hero won't end up getting busted by the POPO for Breaking out of prison absolutely fingers crossed right all right So everybody thinks much for listening again. Apologies for the for the taking a few extra days getting this one out but Hopefully everybody has a great thanksgiving having an Thanksgiving weekend. Watch a lot of football a lot of food. Whatever your normal Ritu Wiz and then coming back for Titan Talk Doc Next week's episode for episode forty nine nine dock night wing. It's going to be on and we'll see you next time right here on Titan. Talk the titans podcast. Goodbye.
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"The titans go yeah Hello again titans. Fans welcome back to tighten talk the titans podcast one of your co host. Charles skaggs back in Titans Tower once again ready to talk talk some DC universe titans with my fellow Titan Talker and one of my greatest friends ever Jesse Jackson. How're you doing Jesse? Im I am great. Charles you know I think we gotta take a minute. Tightened talk is the gift that keeps on giving. Yes yes not not only did it gives us Hours of reading entertainment back in the day. But it connected you. Laurie and I and now than it's got us is talking titans on TV. There's no way that young Charles and Jessie and all the other members of that we're in Titan talk that As we talked about before the fanzine we used to do the site the Aba yes present. There's no way we would have thought we would get a line action Titan series especially one this good. Yeah Yeah it's been a lot of fun really enjoyed talking with you. And today's going to be no exception because here episode forty five. We're GONNA talk atonement. Yes an actual the episode title. Not named after a character all right. Yes I used. So this is the ninth episode of Titan Season Two or getting close to the end yes The air just released on November First Twenty nineteen written by Geoffrey. David Thomas who co wrote the season one episode Jason Jason Todd and directed by Boris Mooch Mode softy gang so someone new to the show but Thought he did pretty good job here and Looking for to get your thoughts on atonement all right so So before we get started. What is into our topics? We have four today. Liu So but Just kind of break things down four four times when I talk about but I WANNA get your thoughts on overall about this episode. So what did you think about this. When in general I was a little disappointed I was as well so go ahead? I felt this was disjointed. I felt like they it often. And and I'M GONNA call this game the Throne Syndrome. We have so many characters and we have to give a little bit to each one of them And I think that many of them were w t the F.. Why did that happen? In fact I've written down notes about these There were stories in this that if they had spent time with it would would have been good but because of the trying to touch everyone. I just felt like this didn't work as an episode I'm kind of disappointed right along with you at this one. This is probably my least favorite of the season so far. Yeah the I know some people liked acted and that's that's cool. Yeah but But for me. This one just didn't work. I think my main problem with the story is that it's such a Downer Downer of an episode. Everyone everyone in this episode is making really bad decisions. I hate characters that all when all of them make AAC really bad decisions and it's very forced because hey oh hey we had the titans together for maybe all of five seconds time. I'm just split them up again and send them to the four corners of the universe just so we can bring them back again later and it just drove me nuts. I was very very frustrated and just seems very unnecessary this episode. Yeah I'm I'm hoping Yeah we'll we'll break it down as you do a great job as always you kind of talk about the different theories and different. You know things the episode but I really really really was unhappy with this. Yeah I mean there are a couple of things that kind of fuel some of the theories. We've been talking about and we'll talk about that in each each segment but And we get the introduction of a major new character black fire at long last. I mean we've kind of had her reference but we finally get to see her played by Damaris Lewis who before we get into that topic She was in the movie Black Klansman and and she was also on the TV series pose and TV series new girl. She's a she's actually a model and you can see why but She's a model. That kind of became came in actress or does also acting on the side and and here she's been cast as as The sister backfire at the sister of Princess. Coriander Aka Star Fire. Yeah and so I think in an attempt to set up season the three. Yeah I think so so. We'll see what happens but if there is a season three we'll find out I guess altogether but But they seem to be trying trying to set that up already. All right We also get the return of Isa Morales's stroke Mako Noyon as Adeline Kane Robbie Jones in his presumably last appearance as day. And of course Karen. Walters gets a cameo Jason Todd. Joshua Orphan has some fund fund scenes as super boy. And some not so fun scenes egg again with characters making really bad choices life choices and otherwise that's pretty much the story and it's essentially like we talked about everybody going The story it's Kinda starts off with Dick Talking about basically he coming clean about what happened with Jericho and the reason. He didn't come clean as we found out it was. He was afraid that the titans would react badly and and split up so of course. That's exactly what happens so and and I'm a little bit it so let's talk about our first topics Dick Dick Grayson and let's talk about slade as well. Okay so my first question and I'm kind of jumping ahead and Adeline as well. As through wealth. I watched the episode was the scene when he goes to visit at a line and slade. Is there right was that a flashback. Flashback or was that current that's current. I believe because it felt like a flashback because with slade saying if you ever get the titans back together I will kill all of them you know. I didn't have the exact quote. Yeah and so. He's kind of like after he broke them up and he's the one responsible for the titans breaking up them but he'd already done that. The original yeah thing he had broken apart. So that's why I'm saying. Give me a little bit so they break them apart right. Dick casse feeling guilty about Jericho dying. He goes visit Jericho's mom she's talking to them then. All of a sudden they're flashbacks laid back when he was he could be really upset about his son. Just dying and then he says if you ever get them back together I'M GONNA kill. Everyone flashed modern. Sometimes they get together. DETRO- gets out of retirement and starts killing them it it. It felt like a flashback. Because he is doing doing what he said he was doing so well I would say that again well here. Here's my theory about that. I get where you're coming from I could see I could definitely understand confusion of seeing this as a flashback. Get that that said I think the reason it was set in the present Sunday is because Dick trying to come clean at long last about his guilt about Jericho. He went to Jericho's mother to talk to her. Yeah before he wasn't doing that he wasn't coming clean about what happened with Jericho. So so I kind of see it as more okay Dick now after the titans laughed he said because he told Gar while. There's something I have to do. And then we see him going to Nevada to talk to slaves wife so I have to presume that that's the thing he had to do. Like he was feeling guilty. And that kind percents up the thing. What happens later in the airport with him? Yeah I totally agree it just understanding what it just felt like it could have right right. That's what he remembered happening because it it kind of seems like now they're going the same ground but okay. Yeah but yeah now now now I think if this was a flashback sleigh. Didn't really tell them. Hey you guys get back together other and I'll kill all of you. Yeah so this is him now saying well. If you guys get to get back together again I'm going to kill all of you. Yeah I broke up twice right and this time I'm really really serious. You shouldn't get back together exactly. Yeah it just didn't work for me at all because of him saying that this is revenge breaking them up and we'll see what happens but yeah yeah I I'm trying to put because of the context I totally get that I don't know if you watch the drama. A million little things now. It's okay but in there is a and I won't go into elaborate story but a a character And his wife were restrained and they are starting to get back together and he says the only way. Hey this is gonNa work is if I am totally honest with you and what I'm GonNa tell you may mean you won't take me back right and he admits that he had had an affair and the person he had the affair with is a mutual friend. The baby she's having his his baby out of a soap. Oh poor thing and absolutely his ex. His estranged wife is very angry but then she later accepts the fact that that he I can't change his actions but at least he's being honest now and maybe from this point we can move forward and so so I agree with Dick Okay. I can't change my past. I'M GONNA I have to clean the air and I'm not saying it's not unrealistic for Hank to punch him in everyone to leave but there should at least be some thought on. I appreciate you coming. Clean down the road. Maybe we can do for now. I've got you gotTa Give Space Week process this exactly and there was none of that and it just it seems so it made absolutely no sense to have everyone except for Gar and really Kinda a cory cory just said it had something to do. She said but everybody else just saying. Look I'm out of here. There was no like. Hey we appreciate you coming clean but we need time to process this exactly. There was none of that there was no there was no like meeting halfway here. It was just like Oh you lie to US okay again. All right. We're out of here by. Oh eight Dick. The reason you lied to us is we're going to show you. You were right to lie to us. It's everything you worried was afraid was going to happen did happen. Yeah so so you perfectly surly justified like why. Why should I ever tell the truth again because you guys just proved me right exactly and like I said I'm not saying they should immediately go? Oh now that you're honest and it's repre- we can move forward dope but they should at least say what what I would want is. Hey I I am pissed off at you Dick. Yeah and you know and this is going to take me some well but but at least I I appreciate you finally telling us what's going on right. It's not like Dick Killed Jericho. Exactly Jericho is the one who sacrificed himself self and he just said like he made it. He just basically play with the timeline of the events. Absolutely so he didn't lie about. Jerry died so I have no idea why they're so angry with him. It just makes no sense to me and it's probably why. This is my least favorite episode. Because I was just like going really guys. Yeah like you know even gars pointing this out later when he and decker alone. He's like okay. You apologized and you came clean with them. And what so. What more do they want? Yeah and Gars. The only one who's loyal here wanting to you know like look okay. He screwed up but at least coming clean with us. There's no there's like like zero. It's like it's black or white with everybody else like okay. You lied to us. That's it we're done. There's there's no you know zero zero tolerance policy apparently with everybody else so frustrating to me. Okay like later on like Rachel makes this comment. She tags along with Donna after she leaves. And even donnas all surprised about that. Like okay you're tagging along with me really okay and I have a point in about that when we get to that. Well if I'm not gonNA talk about it now because they don't have a separate category for this one because it was just one scene so yeah go ahead I'll I'll I'll set it up you knock it down so I'll set it up. So so Donna Anna and Rachel get into. I'm guessing an Uber Taxi. Yes and they're riding around they get stuck in traffic and Rachel's Talk in the done and And Rachel's actually being a little bit of a voice of reason. Here she's going okay. You know what Dick would was. You know was not great but you know you guys were like right along there within thr- all.
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"Painful to her right yet she'll survive yes he knows exactly how much a new benz version was dangerous don't get me wrong ero but this one is so he doesn't lose his temper in fact he talks about that too dick he's just a mission yes move counter move move counter automatically jerko shows up at the church so and ultimately ends up fighting death stroke so i have a slight the time the monitor room he gets the alarm oh no it's donna stand but it just seems like a little just in any gas tom zoeller when i was gonna meet stephen l. we didn't keep these on stupid mannequins so yes rene densities yet other times not so it is very inconsistent that was a really good fight yes but again death stroke and he's just he's just as clever as an what's what makes him such a great villainous more of a threat and gets the upper hand and just pummels of she has a little more special abilities slade would beat the both right you know he because of his abilities because of his l. let you go to your dad and not fear but ended up following on robin didn't just say hey jericho certain point to bring up to make jericho basically manipulating the sun going look titans are hypocrites you know and then the fight results don jericho steps and protects dick so why would jerko do that they have not been his father killing anybody right i would have liked it more if this had been an accidental eight years because jericho's naturally hero and the truth about his father who is father is and then to see his father actually trying to kill i did want arabia felt the dick was right so i don't know special effects they showed yes jericho doing when he was in my mind but it looked a little bit like that so so here's my theory kevin loses consciousness so the question but with with rob being unconscious we don't know wounded body yes to get treatment okay so his you know his consciousness is still definitely still alive i think yeah or not that's the question for me but we'll see we'll and yeah like my theory is that well he's in jason todd at the because deadman's a ghost so he's writing bodies to yeah to be able to interestingly shot now the titans as a result of this break up out yeah why were they so mad at dick or they felt okay this once this is over were done with us in that so by budget by your gestures here he was starting to get old and i was going to sam's and linda said hey dog bags one of them fairly decide the other one huge so was unclear in my instructions yeah so we all agreed to the plan in is it just because jericho died kill dick so in hang staring at him with so much anger yeah yeah you know i mean if you had said right but donald dick this is bad things are happening oh it's like everyone had this agreement we all had a plan right now that decision that you could not say when after the fact if you had a problem with the decision we are making you need to say i never thought this was a good idea to begin with and boy you've really screwed up i okay we're breaking up the titans and we're breaking up the relationship he's already having second thoughts about the relationship yeah and then and then breath so make your mind up so so i kind of feel like i feel like donna there with you i only thing i agree i like the fact that donna said maybe anyway maybe five years ago yeah right we have you know we've lost two people have died just recently by that argument then you could say and maybe they did have this argument off camera and because normally when i can't connect the dots together you're really good at connecting yeah just yeah i just think they were being very unfair and maybe it's just because yeah but that they weren't being completely fair i'm being open with jericho here i'm telling him exactly what the deal is what but all right so yeah bit of a debbie downer ending but thought it was a little step backwards it it needed to do that but i just i think you could have edited this better and have shown a little bit more and i think it would tell you could've told this story much better unprepared man i'm a former boy scout i'm always prepared be a father's or whatever dick says i was raised by back to titans tower after jericho finding out about the jericho as so you know yeah very nice and then after jericho that was a nice pay off because he talked about he doesn't dance and then jerico winner green when he confronts jericho in the record store yes all menacingly the high the titans were tragic greek figures got their asses handed to them by zoos and but it shows that you know at least that winter green's pretty well you killed my friends you murder the innocent you're a monster and district replies and so that kinda shows you de-stress outlook on life yeah you you i guess district wasn't big on the ten commandments thing no not at all did overall sylla's good season i'd give it seven and a half birthday oh versus death stroke fights and great use of of showing they give it eight and a half out of ten yeah so but together eight there's a lot of willing to overlook this one i really well so i just was a little bit a little bit on the story so of as a two parter dude we have any feedback he actually gave his real name is when he sent the email and the heading but i'm gonna but that's a subject headings so hijack welcome to tighten talk very appreciative i previously search titans podcasts and listen to a few others and i that's yes listening to you fellas is like i'm sitting down with a couple of buddies chatting i mean but i have some opinions and would like to know what you think right my okay but i think rose believe he's dead just in a different way i need someone to have both is he can't possess them way to survive as we find on this episode because detrick was he's with my theory on that and he's he's the one messing with his mates heard interesting okay interesting few i airing of his burden with jason we'll see how the other titans react doc yeah take care so jock you take care and thank to try to live up to that and try to be the best titans podcast we can irregularly so hi steve thank you once again i guess hey guys wall not my favorite episode it was certainly a top five oh and he really up wide hank was mad at dick etc it was an almost perfect prequel his promise but had dick just said jericho that detrick had tried to kill donna kill people etc which jericho already knew just a little thing that bothered and.
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"Of Titans Tower and I'm joined of course once again by my co host. Everyone's favourite co host especially the Titans Jesse Jackson. How'RE YOU JESSIE Z. I am in Titan Tower to enjoying the nice facilities. Why keep walking around. I don't see here so yeah well. It is a big place. It is a big place so yeah we have a good one to discuss and a title that is very Dr Huish. Yes I was going to make a mention that that of course you were good yes so here at episode thirty eight of Titan Talk we're going to talk of course rose and it no not the doctor who episode from Two Thousand Five starring Christopher Eccleston and Billie Piper her now now not that episode that enrolls run run for your life yes yes so that's a different podcast. That's absolutely that's another are fantastic podcast that will talk a little bit later but this rose is the second episode of Titans Season Two it just came out a few days ago on September Thirteenth Twenty nineteen written by Richard Hatem or hate them depending on how you want to pronounce it. who wrote the season one episodes some of the better ones Jason Todd he wrote Donna Troy and Hero Dick Grayson which is in not that that great but it Kinda lose lost a lot of impact because it got chopped up in a in bed last half got pushed him head to the the season two premiere yes but but he's really character driven writer he focuses a lot on characterization and that's probably probably why I li- I think he's one of the better titans riders so I just want to mention that a little bit before we get started directed by Nathan Hope someone new to the show so we get a new director this time and this episode obviously is is very big because we get the introduction of a few new characters. I like how they're kind of not overwhelming us with the characters. we get the introduction of Chelsea Zang or Zhang. Excuse me as Rose Wilson who you may Ainhoa from the Disney plus series Andy Mack. I believe if I'm not mistaken yeah. I do not know her want to check that this the director. I just looked in Nathan hope yes has done several Gotham. 's Okay and a had done seven episodes of Lucifer. I thought it so familiar ask so he has a he's actually got a pretty good resume but the the two biggest ones that we would notices the you know. Gotham an Lucifer so right and obviously this titans debut and I think he did a good job with this one one in my Pi I did too we also get the introduction of Hanukkah Talbot Shimmer or as Donna. Troy likes to say Shimmer. Yeah I did not know this character now that from is that from a later Titan story or no if you read the MARV Wolfman and George Perez says titans you should know her from as one of the members of the fearsome five. I did not remember her. Yes shimmer in her brother mammoth yet. Yeah may remember so yeah big back created by Wolfman in Paris she's been on episodes of Star Trek discovery is is Ambi- and the series humans. If you remember that series yes and we get the introduction of Robbie Jones as Fidaai who who is apparently from Tim ran as it turns out and he's not episodes of nine. Oh Two one oh hell cats one tree hill he's not in the episode very long but I get the feeling we haven't seen the last of him. What's funny is on IMDB? He is given a name. He's just given him a Marion Syrian yeah oh well the only reason I know ms three because of the subtitles are the captions rather that they had his name in the captions till and and then also we get the introduction of another fearsome five-member so we have two members of the fearsome five. Will we see the other three. I'm kind of curious. That's Michael Mostly as Dr Lights and I think this was great. Casting Michael Beasley has been in a lot of stuff breath. He is played a lot of comedy and He's you know I I know him. He was really good in last resort he played some apart in castle a small role in Castle and I think he is great casting because he's he looks very likeable and very very He seems to be a very evil villain which was kind of Nice to see yeah well. If you watched him on the TV series Ozark I did not on that he was on that and he's also an episode episode of elementary in addition to castle. That's what I've got. I'm a big elementary fan so I thought I'd mentioned that but I like the fact that yeah we get added several new characters but the way they're introduced. They're not overwhelming us. They're just kind of there being very very careful about how they introduce introduce all these new characters we still have several more to go and that we haven't seen yet so I guess we'll get those later on hopefully but but but it's working out rather well. I think all right I agree okay topics this time I do have a theme but it's a very loose use theme okay primarily because I think the third the third one doesn't quite mesh as well with the first two but so bear with me. Give me a little again this one. I think you'll like topic number one though topping number one my father's house us see what yes you did. Thank you always appreciate the springsteen shout or as you said yes in your wonderful wonderful before we went live. I'm editing these special. Busse Bruce springsteen birthday episode for Settlers Brusca shameless plug here and you later greeting in your very nice did you said and and I appreciate set less than Bruce Gives Jesse a chance to talk bruce without being on our other broadcast Sir but thank you for that yeah great topic so in a Lotta ways Titan Tower is Dick's father's house right and I gotta I tell you so. Do you know what I'm actually talking referring to. In this day a well should I actually or should actually talk about what topics go ahead. Oh go ahead then. I'll go to what I want to talk okay. That sounds good all right so obviously yeah. That was the nineteen eighty two springsteen. Song This obviously i WanNa talk about Dick like you you surmised and also WanNa talk about Raven and I want to talk about rose okay in this segment because rose as we find out if you're not a fan of the comics knicks this probably was kind of a big shock to you yeah that rose has a rather infamous father so that's why we talk about her in this and I threw in Raven because Dick shares a lot of scenes with Raven in this and and he they kind of discuss how they're handling Dan how his handling of bringing rose so I thought it Kinda worked Kinda fit her in in this one. I first off what I was GONNA. Say You thank you for you. Kinda get it. I want Bruce Talking. I Want Dick and Bruce Talking every episode and I just give me five minutes minutes of them on the phone or doing there is more character development and more relationship in this show then I would argue argue almost fifty years of comments you know it's just really nice to see that Father Son Bond and mentor you know protege. It's just really well done. I think it helps that Iain Glen is just he brings it. He is such a great actor right and was wonderful in game of thrones and he really just gives a sense of of strength and love to the role as Bruce so I adore their phone calls back and forth yeah he basically calls Bruce to get some advice on how to handle rose and they kind of talk about well would if Bruce had the chance to do it all over again would he deal with all the trouble that Dick caused and for even the highs and lows or whatnot of their relationship and what do you do have the chance to do it all again. What he and Bruce Reply yes. He would do everything exactly the same yeah he you know he talked about. I had to give you a focus for your rage and that way it's okay you hated me and because Bruce you know Dick was very clear her. You know you picked in someone who ultimately wants to leave you and I would argue. That's a parent's job. Apparent parent is the to raise your child so that they end up leaving now. You hope that there is a relationship and you have a your. You've your your parent child. Relationship changes to one of you know a little more equals because they're grown ups but I love that seen I I love the advice he's giving and it's just wonderful yeah now. Dick you know I'm really digging. Dick this this season as far as Dick Grayson this season I am let me let me preface that a little bit. Now I understand what you're saying. I'm really enjoying the characterization of Dick Grayson in this in this season so my question to you here at episode thirteen of Titans as an overall series did they have they finally figured out how to write Dick Grayson. I think so I think and we talked before we hit record someone in posted on IMDB that they said season one was very uneven and that they recommended you start with this episode as your first episode now. I don't agree with that. I think because there's so much backstory that so much backstory that we learn yeah but I do think you could. I think the way an Oscar jumping on point Y- you know every comic is someone's first comic and every episode. It could be someone's first episode. This is a good introduction to the world but I do think that and I don't know if it's the same writer's room or if they brought in fresh blood but the relationships they're giving and we're going to talk about this in a minute but last episode I mentioned I don't remember Raven and Dick Grayson being especially tight in the comics no but I love their relationship in this series. I believe I just it's very much an older brother younger sister thing yes and sometimes the younger sister is smarter better than the older brother and he comes across that it's really well done and you know talk about you. Pick up strays. That's what you do you know and and that's and that's a great summation of personality. I think yeah is that you know he's looking out for the neglected and the forgotten and the outsiders although that's a different group obvious visit different but but the misfits he's looking for and what he's doing here with titans in this is where we get a much better grasp of this is that he the way he views this new group of Titans Titans the new titans as it were heave used them as a nice little not to the new guides. Yes yes yes it was so he views that this this revived group as an opportunity to kind of teach and mole or help not really mold but but to help guide and kind of what he said he makes his comment about that Titans Titans Tower that plays for young heroes to figure out how they can be the best version of themselves yeah in and I. I think that's very noble mission. It's it's almost kind of like a little bit of the X. Men where you know you have this school for gifted youngsters they bring them in and try to teach them how to control their powers and use them to help a world that hates and fears them but but but here but it's but it's good to kind of see. Dick Taking on that Kinda mentor role and I I like the foreshadowing of when he's talking to Jason which by the way I think they are writing much better have this you know he's just enough of a jerk but not you know just a brashness not a Jerky nece. I guess what we got. We got the inference that the you know three months had passed since the previous episode there was a bit of time jump so so this is obviously three months of Dick trying to coach Jason a little little bit and I really like that scene. I think you're going to talk about that. where Dick Kinda manipulates Jason.
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"I left my the whole hurt in San Francisco Charles. I am really I'm excited about that little twist than I. I know we'll get to that more but it is good to be back talking titans after a very long summer summer. Oh Yes yes yeah yeah so here episode thirty seven of Titan Talk. We're GONNA talk traffic on the first episode of Titan Season Two to it's been a good long wait for about a year now but we're back and we're back from the Phantom zone as Jesse and I for those who've been keeping up with this hopefully you have we've been on the Phantom Zone podcast that we do over the summer we talked Krypton season two which which sadly ended up being cancelled hopefully will be picked up by DC universe or some other or perhaps Hbo Max or some other streaming service yes we'll see then we did an episode where we kind of recapped the boys season one which is the Amazon prime series based on the dynamite might entertainment comic by Garth Ennis and Derek Robertson which a lot of people have been enjoying so they did that as we kind of waited around for Titan season into that kind of help fill the gap for us so we're back we're back at titans tower is back open for business literally as we find out in this in this episode at the end of the episode and we'll talk about that obviously but so Jesse before we get started. How great was it to finally watch some more titans episodes. it was really great. I we'd had a busy weekend so I didn't get a chance to watch it till really almost eleven thirty last night really yeah and so just just a full we just under the wire yeah and so so and we came back from watching we'd gone to family. LSU University of Texas Watching Party and Linda said argued retired and I said well I said I need to do my homework and I said so. I don't have to get up in the morning and watch it and she says okay well. I'M GONNA go to bed we had. We had spent the Saturday Day watching stranger things. She decided she wanted to join it and I've been wanting to watch it and by the way she's loving it and she's like an I have no idea why is this is not the kind of show I would normally watch which yes great show obviously yeah so I was. I was excited about seeing this and then I I wit this is I'm almost glad I delayed watching it because that way I was kind of anticipation and and it paid off I mean I feel like spoilers. I just feel like this was a really. I've few nitpicks but a great way to start the season right when I what is before we get into our main. You know discussion generally. I enjoyed this episode quite a bit. I like the fact that essentially it's it cleans cleans house from season one we had a lot of dangling loose threads for those that don't know this story was essentially supposed to be episode twelve of Season One and they decided that the show runners which I presume Zuma Akiva Goldsman Geoff Johns Greg Walker they they decided okay well. Let's just make episode eleven that cliffhanger her and and the season on that and then kind of carry things over to season King Basically Carrie episode twelve over to season two and I don't know if they decided to make some changes along the way as a result maybe the they didn't think they didn't know if they were going to get into who knows but essentially what this episode is the way it's structured as it's the first two thirds are the kind of the wrap up to tighten season one. Yes and then like the last ten minutes or so. Maybe the last fifteen minutes it's I'm not sure essentially it's a it starts off season to really we kinda pick things up. Some time has passed a little bit and in-depth stroke is introduced and it kind of feels essentially from the moment that you know like trag on this taken care of love it starts feeling good completely brand new series and so it's a little disjointed but but I think they need to do some necessary housekeeping yeah. I think that is you you. You absolutely pushed. You've highlighted my nitpick yeah. I'M GONNA Monday morning quarterback ear Monday morning. Show running wasn't more Sunday morning quarterbacking in case right. Oh yes yeah I would have probably I would have finished this. Yes you know I would have gone ahead. I wouldn't have had the cliffhanger in fact I think the scene at the end where they kind of pull back right would have been a great eight way to in the season. Yes oh I like. I said it's it's a small nit. Pick I liked the way they wrap things up very quickly so yeah but it's very clear that this was and they've done some other other retro changes in it as well that I think we'll talk about yeah because you know about a year ago roughly when we talked about Titan season one for and you know we kinda talked about how that that season one finale the episode eleven dairy. Dick Grayson it wasn't entirely satisfying and in I agree with you. I think this was a kind of a poor create. Its decision to split this up. You know to make decrease in a cliffhanger episode in and hope that everybody would come back for season two I thought they should really should have ended a little stronger. They did but but this kind of like kind of sweeps the floor and tidy things up and and hopefully going forward. It'll feel a little more together to use the term. Yeah I think so yeah so before we get into this. We got a couple of new characters introduced in the story so let's talk about them really quickly before we get started. we get the debut debut of Iain Glen from game of thrones who of course played surge or a more month Aka sir friend zone to a lot of people and Dan on game of thrones He makes his debut as an older Bruce Wayne and we're GonNa talk about him in our third segment when we talk about Bruce Dick but but it was kind of pretty interesting debut to have an older Batman in this continent although of course I don't think we'll ever get to see iain. Glen dressed up as Batman. No I don't as far as I'm guessing but would just see'ums Bruce Wayne. WE GET E. Cy Cy Morales as death stroke doc who I thought had a pretty solid introduction get Jesse's giving two thumbs up on that yeah. I I'm looking forward to talking about him. Yes if if the name sounds familiar you probably fan of the show capra the battle star Galactica spinoff series. He played Joseph Adama on on camera. Which is where? I I really got to know him. Although a lot of people he was in La Bamba the movie La Bomba. You was a on an N. Y. P. D. Blue where I I assume he he was really good on. NYPD blue right yeah so you know I'm sure a lot of people known from a lot of different places as he's been around quite a while obviously yeah but good solid on capricorn so I was okay with him being cast stroke and he makes it pretty good looking de that stroke he does and the the I'm looking winner. Green Damore born is your about to get. You exactly looked really good too yeah. I thought he came across a really nice. Obviously changed his character up William Winner agree that you know th that's who Damore Demar Barnes plays in this story comics from the titans comics yeah winner green was essentially actually like old British military officer guy and so I was his version of Alber essentially yeah it's it's death strokes. Alfred although although they're more friends yes than in more of a Master Servant Relationship Ryan wintering kind of serves as de Strokes assistant in this role but but yeah he's essentially the basic is basically districts version of Alfred which makes him a good counterpart that me and then that against absolutely if you've seen him before he played Tokamak Villain Tokamak on the flash if you remember him from season to the firestorm villain that he played on that series he's also recently on American gods as Mr Ibis. Yes you probably a lot of people I know. Jesse's watched American gods so you probably recognize him there as well. Oh Yeah I did and you know we got a return of course of shameless Denver as try gone and we got Rachel Nichols and in her presumably her last appearance as Angela as wrath yes who ends up getting killed by truck on and we'll talk about that obviously as so yeah not you know not really a good end for old not exactly shocking. I not waiting that to happen but yeah it's still pretty much yeah don't dance with the devil exactly literally under the Pale Moonlight to use a Bamiyan term so we got four topics talk about all right I won you know I want to talk about and I'd actually do have a theme this week. Okay so first topic darkness and this i WanNa talk about the dark titans you know the titans essentially becoming a succumbing to the evil of try gone the end up getting those nice little black is with the kind of Goth I make up and as they become under treiguts power and that actually was a nod to the Mar- Wolfman and George Perez New Teen Titans yes in the volume to that they did the Baxter series of remember from Nineteen Eighty-four it was actually issue number four torment where we kind of got to to see the dark versions of the titans with in the comics they had red eyes and they're kind of depicted as kind of like negative image edge versions of themselves but here they decided to go a little cheaper route and just you know put black context in them and Kinda smeared some bad I make up on them and I actually think that worked better you think so. I think on the TV show I think that simple yes simple as it's best just showing the kind of it was very easy to see easy recognized yes there was darkness not on just the the edge of town but everywhere on this with these are titans so I was waiting for you to kind of work. In springsteen reference there always yes though have a different pop singer in mind okay pop band in mind but it there so let's talk about about the the dark titans here so one by one we kinda see the titans succumbing to try gones influence. obviously we start off with Dick who's already because of the season one finale Dick Grayson cliffhanger that he was already under under try guns thrall and we kind of see him going after Garn Rachel and you know it's kind of a pretty cool moment where like they're kind of hiding out in his bedroom and the pictures on the wall the there is you know the people in the pictures is there is start bleeding so it's a very haunted house. typesetting in that that treiguts trying to scare them and Dick is starts pounding running on the door and trying to you know confront them and say and kind of playing on Ravens hopes that she we can somehow bring him back yeah any kind of tuncer about that and so when you think about that so I liked all all of this.
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"A._M. Net excellent so <hes> now please do that. Everybody 'cause Knicks obviously great. He's a he has a lot of great insights and we'd just love talking to him and he's so kind and always has such wonderful things to say about us even though we have we're not paying him for that so somehow that I don't know how that works out I mean I keep expecting avenue. Write a check. I I was waiting for the payback shrouds for hasn't come through if you're waiting for the E._M._t.. Maybe we'll do electronic. It's always a pleasure. Take pay pal. Yes yeah thanks again for having me on guys always a pleasure to talk anything with you because you are both excellent hosts in your so passionate about what you do so identity always have a great time all right so <hes> in the meantime. If you WANNA get <hes> keep in touch with us here on on Titan talk of course you can reach us on twitter at Titan podcast or on facebook a tight and talk to titans podcast and you drop us a line if you want tightened talk cast at gmail.com because even though we may not be recording episodes so for a while still gonna get emails and we can save 'em up over the summer and until we get back into talk about them so he reaches tightened talk cast gmail.com otherwise we're probably just <hes> probably I'll be crying to work in an episode of Young Justice Outsiders Car to with Phil Perish from the <hes> the <hes> what's is it the case and lunatics podcast where he and I will be talking <hes> the back half of young justice outsiders and episodes fourteen through twenty six but <hes> other than that <hes> we'll just come back in October and we'll talk titan season two and what it looks to be an interesting <hes> adaptation hopefully of the Judas contract in Titan season to which they still need to wrap up the trike on storyline though so you got a lot to do guys and hopefully you're up to the task this time so June patrols raise the bar really really high. It really has has it. Yes it has so <hes> titans time to step your game up as we'll say you got a lot to you got a lot to make up for. I think for that first season so hopefully you can get on track and doom patrol hopefully showed you how to do it absolutely all right so nick again once again. Thank you for joining us. You're always welcome to join us. Whenever we have a podcast and <hes> we left talking to you so thank okay so much? Well thank you both so much for your time. In this case it's ever a pleasure to to spend the time talking to you and shooting the breeze over what we did shows up so much excellent and just any final words before we sign off. Thank you nick. Thank you you Charles. It's always a joy talking to you guys and I agree. You Know Nick just anytime you've got something you WanNA share Arthurian set less than Bruce and fun talking music okay or is it a good time. Thank you all right so everybody thinks again for listening to us. Here tightened talk <hes> like I said we'll be talking. Maybe young justice outside is a little bit and then we'll be back. Hopefully in October for Titan season two so we'll see you next time and thank you for listening to tighten talk the titans podcast good-bye everybody..
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"Realized that she they eventually they find out that <hes> he had a wife named Deloris so they try to track down Dolores and this woman apparently named deloris gets a hold of than they arrange a meeting off camera at some point so vickery drake the doom bus and try to meet Dolores and <HES> while they're waiting they see a couple arguing and Jane. Ill like the the the large boyfriend is kind of being abusive to the his girlfriend or wife or whatever Jane doesn't take too kindly to that abuse and says she goes out to Kinda. Give the guy a piece of her mind and try try to be checked out of the girl and at the same time while Jane goes off following them <hes> Dolores shows up at the bus and sees vic and then we find out that up surprise all three of them. All three of these people are agents of the bureau of normal and <hes> and there's basically there to kind of kick net vic and it's the plan the I think it's a really really they knew how to get her talk about doing a perfect trap right right well they. They didn't kidnap Jane. They just got her away. They've been how to do that yeah she was Jane was the you know the Jane's you know the couple. The finding couple was a distraction alert. Allergic Wave Dick. Yes which is perfect yeah. It is yeah they do. They knew how to manipulate is what you're saying yeah so I thought that was like I said it was a really nice cliffhanger right to see where we're going next yeah so and then we find out that Vick has been taken to the ant farm. Yes where Larry had was previously held at one point and <hes> Darren Jones from the Danny Patrol episode yeah is back and apparently is like <hes> they they want vic for some reason or maybe grid or you know there's. There's a they've. They're they've got a plan for something there <hes> to be continued obviously but <hes> yeah it was a it was a good solid cliffhanger for really nice stuff anything about this episode before move on just it was really really nice to go back. I think after in my only opinion and I know I'm in the minority after a slight misstep. They are back on track during the series that we live right well. You know like I I did kind of feel justified as that. <hes> you know some of the things I told you we should be focusing on flex men tallow yeah and all that that that that we're getting we got pay off for that. Yeah it's starting to so it was is important and it's not like the entire episode last week. was you know it wasn't important and so hopefully yeah. That's your opinion and yeah we'll we'll see so. Maybe we'll find out more. Maybe we'll find out that the bureau enormous he here's looking for Slava as well yeah and I'm sure that's where we that the the reason they want to get to the do patrol out of the way so that they can get her get to her ultimate goal. I guess I I love. I have one of these. I I have one quote that I'm going to say but no I just didn't you. I love the fact that they don't Wanna be called the doom patrol. Oh Yeah Yeah and inspect that's by my quote is from early in the episode gained says dear chief sorry never found you. We have no excuse except that we are utterly utterly incompetent. Oh look we got a clue from teleporting gender Queer Street and based on Res Description and I quote a hunky field fellow known as hero the beach signed the totally fracking checking doom patrol do yes the effing totally useless doom patrol yes so I just love that I I just love Jane <hes> and like when she became flick really quick brought brought him down and then I just now flits personality is so bright and cheery player Jane like all of a sudden like Diane. Guerrero could just flip that on like a light switch and like okay everybody. Let's go boom and and you know like when flit arrives and then you know just Jane being so like <hes> jaded in comparison is just a just shows dying grows great range once again all right <hes> I like the line signed between big D and Rita when he's when when he kinda I sees rita he goes well butter my backside and call me a biscuit. What can I get for you pretty lady and and Reed apply replies dryly? She goes GIN and tonic. I WANNA fend off the mosquitoes. While I'm here that was great that was a great one and a loved yet and <hes> but I just love that you know well butter my best backside and call me a biscuit this get. I'M GONNA have to use them more often. Any other re lines that you liked okay <hes> I like to exchange between Rita and cliff when they're out in the swamp and <hes> they're going Ri going well. Why don't you just buy a new watch? What is so special about that? Watch and cliff goes because it's my effing watch okay I want in the Dallas speedway in nineteen seventy six in the neck and neck with Flip Jackson and that watch means something to her so if I have to bear Russell an alligator to prove that I still care about her then Gosh darn it on. I'm paraphrasing here for your benefit. <hes> that's what I'm GonNa do well well for ROB's benefit. Yes because I would have to edit this right there. Yes did you think of pulp fiction with watch a little a little not a a lot but I just thought of that just a little bit there watchers remember that <hes> with <hes> what's his name <hes> Chris no not Bruce will also. I was thinking of the other actor the one that gave him the watch again Christopher Walken. Yes Christopher Walken thank you yes. How can I forget him all right <hes> I liked another line between Rita and cliff where <hes> you know they're? They're talking about like you know <hes> like a cliff just talking tape player and it says or you could just talk to her and cliff goes and say what everything I could possibly say would be just totally stupid as F- Hi. I'm your dad but I- died in a robot now I'm just a brain in a tin can but hey even though I've been robot non grata for thirty years and I don't expect you to like me and you certainly don't have to love me but I just wanted to say. I'm sorry and really goes yes. That's exactly what you would say yeah. I love that <hes> I just I did like that. In part of me wants to see him. Have that conversation right you know but <hes> I don't think it will work well but yeah I would love that like okay here. We going so yeah that was good. Oh and I did have this one on early way early in the episode where Rita's telling Jane <hes> <hes> how frustrated she has because of manipulations I forgot to mention this. She goes not since I under studied Bette Davis. Have I been so many Mano maniacally manipulated mind controlled and emotionally abused yeah I I just I just thought it was a very realign on line. I shout out to a name-dropping Bette Davis. Daddy Davis yes YEP yeah. That was good so yep yeah. He's kind of a name dropper in kiss is all right <hes> anything else. Else any other quotes nope all right what rating I give this nine out of nine buckets chicken nine out of nine nine out of ten yes so it was a perfect nine ten bucks I was I was thinking about the check and I forgot to that was good. I liked that one <hes>. I like this one a little less than you. I thought it was good though I give it eight and a half out of ten leaping alligators ooh I like that because I love the fact that that <hes> that Francis was just like did you do almost like a bionic man going through the air very almost matrix see neo kind of way to use a more modern reference <hes> but I liked that a lot so good so good character development <hes> but <hes> you know we're still waiting for more the bigger episodes which are obviously to come so good good steady progression back on track as all right now. I don't have any titans tower news once again. We just recorded like three days ago right so <hes> not a lot of news between now and then but holly Max in a scene email holly Max do you do you want to read her email. You have it or I go ahead and read it. Hey Charles and Jessie another great episode. I love the scenes between reading cliff with her trying to give him a pep talk before seeing his daughter again. Clara's speech was touching and made bump a bit more likable cliff deciding to go and take care of Francis to get the watch back was great the scenes between John and Larry in the past and the present were great and gave more backstory to them. The talk between Jane and Vic was good and I think they're able to understand one another more. The ending scene with Clara finding the watch and the bar was perfect. I do hope that Clarin cliff do wind up talking to each other but if they don't this was a good way to wrap it up talk to Y'all soon Hollywood Wisconsin thank you polly yes always always great from here Rachel hear from you and thanks for checking in and yeah and one of the things that you brought up a they can read Arabic and Jane. This is the first time we really seen these two characters really interact yeah and they have surprisingly more in common than you would think. Apparently I agree yes so I thought that was good that we're kind of seeing like characters that we haven't seen really interact with another finally do that so that was good so good points holly once yes and so if you want to be like holly and hey should <hes> trump's line here titan talk at tightened talk fast at gmail.com that's Titan talk cast at the g mail dot com otherwise you can reach us on twitter at Titan talk cast. We definitely appreciate you do in that or on facebook ecotank talk the titans podcast where we talk about obviously about <hes> you know things titans and doom patrol and <hes> we'll post news of the upcoming second season the titans and as we <hes> and now with titans season two is a little ways off swamp. The things coming up obviously doesn't have a lot to do with titans or doom patrol but <hes> but I don't know if you saw the trailer for that but looks pretty good going to check that out and especially if you're a fan of swamp thing <hes> <hes> Jesse working reach you on the interwebs I can be reached at Jesse Jackson on the excuse me at Jesse Jackson D._F._W.. On twitter I am on facebook. Look at Jesse Jackson Lewisville Texas. You can hear Charleston. I talk about Dr who and other Geeky things <hes> about once a month right now on next stop everywhere Charles continues to hold down the fort every other week with rotating guest casts and they all have been amazing so you should check that out <hes> during this final season of game of thrones I am on Small Council matters matters where I taught to Christine Shanen Wendy and we discussed this final breakdown as we record this. It's going to be a big episode tonight and on my facebook page I've posted who I think people die and then lastly set Jesse Jackson Death Watch yes set less than Bruce Bruce Springsteen podcast where I talked to Bruce Springsteen fans from around the world and we've got a new thing going where we're going to have a springsteen thought of the day once a week where I and guest contributors <hes> give a favourite lyric whether springsteen or not and give a little meaning about it and I'm putting pressure on Charles Roles who contribute got the cranberries. You Got Sting you've got to you've got all these great bands you love. I'm sure you could find a lyric or two that you want to talk about. 'cause you know Hey Charles. You're not shy and Charles Charles. How can we find you assist the anxiety meds but now as for me you can reach me on the twitter machine at Charles skaggs or at trial skaggs on instagram with definitely appreciate you following allowing me there or on facebook Charles skaggs Ohio that would be great or you can reach me on my blogging things come on the damn coffee and hot where I talk about all the stuff we talk about here on Titan talk including Titans News Doom Patrol News News my other podcasts they do for Southgate Media Group including the aforementioned next stop up everywhere.
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"The titans go uh-huh and hello again..
TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"titans" Discussed on TitanTalk: The Titans Podcast
"Hello again. Everyone welcome back to tighten talk. The Titans podcast k the doom patrol podcast. I'm your host Charles Skaggs and with me in do manner once again my co host. Everybody's favorite co host Jesse Jackson. Hello Charles how are you doing. I'm doing okay doing okay. Have I'm pretty good not bad not bad we'll have how about you. Everything's going pretty. Well pretty quiet weekend. Linda was off at a retreat so I got to be a bachelor and so she catch up on your T._v.. Viewing yes I did I did. I figured that D._v._R.. Must have got a workout. Yes it did. It's a very nice and dime really <hes> as I've shared offscreen <hes>. I have an older T._V. T._v.. So it is not a smart T._v.. Yeah it only has two H._d._M._i.. Plugs so I can't Google cast on it yeah and so to watch the D._C.. Universe I have to be at my computer okay <hes> but ah there is so many of the D._C.. You animated movies because I had gotten I don't I no longer do net flicks disks right and I don't buy them and so I was like you know if I could go if I can sit in my recliner and just go through these this would make a great <hes> you know weekend of binging to catch up on a law these animated that's cool. That's cool so kind of give you a little heads up. They do have <hes> H._d.. SPLITTERS yes okay so pick up one of those so so you basically plug it in and then they'll have more than one port okay good. Thank you so yeah. Go kind of check in your kind of audio visual Techique Geek areas in the store and maybe you can find one. That's a little AV advice from yours truly Titan Talk Tech Talk Tech Talk exactly yeah all right so <hes> so yes. We're GONNA talk some more doom patrol everybody because hey do patrols been awesome and if you haven't been watching shame on you because it's been so good and today here at episode twenty seven we're GonNa talk therapy patrol or as cliff steele refers to it Faira P therapy therapy patrol so so I I have not gone online to check out anyone's thoughts on this one but they were her. If they were unhappy with last week's episode I can only imagine what they feel this week's episode for this was big on character development so it was huge on character development so there's a forget what they think thank you know I know I enjoyed it. I loved it. <hes> I got so much backstory with these guys and so much insight into our characters this week yeah <hes> this is just wonderful. I this was such a great episode and in every way right <hes> and and we got so much of where everyone's at and I loved I love seeing Cliff Jeff taking kind of certainly not a leadership role but a very active like you know we gotta get our stuff yes Sirkin and and and also the he realizes that everybody needs to be like to get all these problems out and even read it kind of goes along with it later in the episode. We'll talk about that yeah. In the <hes> surprise villain at the end was nobody saw that coming coming. You're totally lying. Nobody no one saw that coming now and saw that coming but obviously connects to Mr nobody yeah and I but okay. I'll wait till you talk about cliff. I'm sure cliff is one of our Oh yeah. Oh Yeah so yeah yeah. I'm going to do it a little different structure this week because of how this episode was structured <hes> before we get into that let's get into kind of an overview of the episodes of this is episode seven of Doom patrol season one the era just a couple of days ago on March Twenty ninth and twenty nineteen written by a Neil Reynolds who co wrote the second episode of the Season Donkey Patrol and it was directed by Rob Hardy this episode and <hes> as far as guest cast. We got a quick vocal cameo from Allen Tutic as Mr. Nobody we got to see Phil Morris Asylum Stone got the return of Sharman Lee as <hes> vicks mom eleanor stone tone who gets a little bit more of a scene with vic in the hospital as when he was a kid <hes> we at the introduction of Bethany Bethany Anne Lind as clarice steal the adult clarice deal although it's not really her as we find out it's more like a hallucination on Klis part yes she. She's been in some couple episodes of <hes>. She's been in stranger things and walking dead I just I I mentioned that real quick no. I'm glad I wonder if <hes> <hes> if we ever see her in real life. Will they use the same actors. You would hope so. I would think so yeah because I vic seen her online so he knows what she looks like so. I have to think that <hes> that they're going to keep keep that same actress yeah that makes sense story. <hes> we got the return of Alan Hoechner as bump weather's although as we find out again it's not really bump weather's yeah but we haven't seen him since the pilot episode and <hes> He's been an episode of the walking dead little side note <hes> we got to see <hes> younger versions of Rita Larry in Vic in this episode in cliff yeah so we got to <hes> <hes> yeah yeah so we got the Lana Turner is young. Rita Got Braxton Alexander's Young Larry <hes>. Let's see who else <hes> Brian rank INS as young vic and Gibson Todd as young cliff so we've got little mini doom patrol patrol in this episode and then we got the introduction of <hes> Larry's parents who are Joann. We'll let as Debbie trainer and Ace Smith Harrison as Gerald trainer <hes> and we also got the introduction of class cliff data mom who aren't named but <hes> they're played by Matthew Blom and Caitlyn Bayden I guess so <hes> interesting cast not releasing a lot of notable actors but <hes> Oh no us we also got the return of clements as John Bowers who is again more of a like a memory hallucination yeah Larry's part so <hes> other than that <hes> some Joe I forgot we also got at the introduction of Dave MacDonald as Jane's Daddy and we will have to talk about that scene. Oh we will so yeah so yeah. We're going to see more of Jane's Daddy. I'm sure and he's been in a few episodes. He's been in US episodes a stranger things he's been in the gifted and the twenty seventeen revival of macgyver okay so <hes> started bringing that up so so for all your Trivia bus and not GonNa have any theme this week because of the way this episode was structured. We're going to kind of break this down to the more smaller segments but we're GONNA have a little couple more of them. All right sounds good so I think the first topic I want to talk about is Rita Week. Kinda give everybody the spotlight segment this week that so we're GonNa Talk Rita because we kind of she's the first flashback in the episode and we kind of get a flashback to her. In one thousand nine hundred eighty s Hollywood as we see Young Rita who as we find out Rita Farr is her stage name not her real name and she and she did not I was thinking she was going into actually tell the team during the therapy their P her real name I. I actually thought that was going to happen but it didn't yeah kind of wondering if that's because <hes> as far as I know Rita Farr doesn't have a real name in the comics right so is I mean this is something new for the show so I'm wondering if there's a deliberate reason where we don't know read his real name yeah. Maybe maybe we'll we'll find out later and and the reason I'm thinking right is because you see how shall young. She was right and talk about stage parents. Yes you know this. These are stage parents that this is pretty early because was this was one thousand nine hundred thirty s Hollywood yeah in the setting so so stage parents wasn't really a thing until but apparently <hes> read his parents were the some of the I I guess and it was I always think it's interesting and I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it but child actors how much of it is the child and how much it is the parent right for example <hes> uh-huh we've talked to I've talked to Rob Southgate our our glorious podcast leader our producer yes molly. His daughter is very active in acting and and she he it's very clear it's she's driving this and her. Mom and dad are very proud of her in her helping her write in you get the feeling that Rito was in wanting this but it also they were almost a little too. You know well. We won't have her go into school right as you know so. They're already taking it to like ridiculous extremes. They're not having your go to school because so that she won't get distracted by other children as we find out yes so which means they're not going to keep her educated right and so therefore she's just going full force and and <hes> into the acting thing and it's GonNa I think it's partially why is the way she is that <hes> that <hes> you know she's the she's her life is essentially she realizes a facade. Yes you know it's a complete illusion and she starts to kind of get an understanding of what she realizes this she starts to become more aware of how her life is a facade but then she also is concerned about how if she doesn't have read a far in her life what is she apart from brea too far and this was way before home. Schooling was thing yes <hes> so <hes> <hes> yeah I I had a couple of mixed emotions about this <hes> sequence yes Charles <hes> it in it's always interesting interesting in and I can't. I'm not going to get the phrase right right but yeah <hes> seeing a splinter in your neighbors I while you've got a log in your own okay. I was kind of you know read up. Just I just you've had this breakdown. You know you don't WanNa be yourself. <hes> you know you're already trying to be a better person. You should be able to get your stuff together. You should well okay and then <unk>. I look at me yeah who struggled with weight. My whole life like someone could say Jesse. Just you know exercise more eat less. Just do it and so it's easy. It is to talk about right actually do it is much harder and when you think about all the baggage she's had right <hes> and and I also don't know for as much as yes they talk about the chief helping them to certain degree. He's guy he's Kinda. Give them a safe place for them to run in place. They I mean you know. I don't know they don't they don't toned address things head on. It's more like yeah you're calling it. A safe space is probably a very good analogy yeah because that the chief realizes that these people couldn't function in normal society right so so he's collected them but he's not addressing and trying to I mean he he tries to counsel like right. You put people like Jane and Whatnot but <hes> it's not enough for one thing. It's not enough so now without the chief there actually forced to interact with each other and this is where all the truths and all that you know all the secrets and the lies are coming now absolutely and they're actually having to confront things head on here <hes> so there's a great after this kind of flashback where we we've <hes> with Rita meeting this <hes> movie star named Ethel Sanger <hes> we kind of jumped to the present and Rita <hes> is having trouble getting yourself together literally. She crawls out of bed trying to get herself together. She ends up losing cohesion and slumps down a furnace great. Yes he ends up in the furnace and she has to get away real herself out of that predicament because nobody else can hear her in her her her morning mantra yet right of of focus you know I am Rita. I am Rita the the person who is breathing his whole thing the whole <hes> <hes> she uses it to kind of like former south like the person with an arm is me the person with another arm as me yeah I mean <hes> it it was it was interesting to see and this kind of and you you wonder is that one of the things that chief has helped her to do and as a coping mechanism versus trying to go directly to the source of why she feels that way so that she can be more comfortable with herself right you know and even though she has a breakthrough in this episode yeah with realizing rising that you know that read Afar is a facade yeah..