20 Episode results for "Tim Blanks"

Imran Amed and Tim Blanks on a Most Unusual Fashion Month

The Business of Fashion Podcast

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Imran Amed and Tim Blanks on a Most Unusual Fashion Month

"The. The Obvious question people ask themselves had his fashion fit into this change world. How is what I do relevant? How can I make it relevant? It seems unlikely that will have a so called normal fashion week in January February either so. What do you think's going to happen? I think it's a sort of it's a reflection of how we're going to get by how are we gonNA get through this crisis everybody's GonNa get through this crisis that. We have to help each other. As, much as we can as much for allowed to from bubbles and isolation cells. Hi. This is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business fashion and welcome to the podcast around this time of year, each season Tim blanks is sit down for a chat to recap the fashion season. That was it's a tradition that we wanted to continue again this year in this very unusual season even though neither of us have attended a physical fashion, show all season, but it was an interesting season for technological innovation and creativity. Here's Tim blanks inside passion. Blow everyone. This is Imran Ahmed founder CEO of the business of fashion and I am here with my friend and colleague Tim Blanks editor at large of the business of fashion, and usually around this time of year timid I do a debrief on the fashion week has gone by and it's usually been informed by some of the chats the Timman I have. In the back of a car shuttling from one show to another in in all of the fashion cities. But this has been it goes without saying a fashion season that was very different but we wanted to continue our tradition and as it's been such a unique and unusual season maybe it's even more interesting to talk about the fashion season that's gone by so. Cam Maybe, we could just start with. The decision that both you and I made not. Any physical shows season in what what led you down that path because of course, there were some things you could have gone to here in London but in the end that didn't transpire. Well, my husband Jeff is very high risk and we have been so extremely careful since March. That it just seemed the sensible decision to extend vet caution and keep on extending it until we know there's not some kind of. Remove as much as remove as many random elements as possible from alive I I feel. Schizo being out of the House for all the months I found it so. Wasn't even the novelty I just found. The options that we would given. If we wanted attending things in person, we could zoom with design is we we could dive we can do deep dives into collections I ended up quite seduced by the virtual option I have to say. Come on a room. That's a surprise because you know at the early. Onset pandemic, we were talking about Sasha demonstrating graying potentially. Some shows never happening again. You know you're quite pro fashion meets Elliott. and Pro fashion shows because fashion shows have been my exposure to fashioned for my entire time working in this industry and I was definitely on the side of. You know that way of that way of encountering fashion, but this has been an education in. So many ways a pop aside from the fact, I've actually you learned to use technology and in a way I never thought I would I would ever be able to. It doesn't kind of. Terrify me Oh bull made whatever. You know the as so many people said, and it didn't matter whether there were people like me who just sit and look at things or whether they will buy as you know people who have whose bread and butter is the touchy feely side of the industry seventy people were saying the. The ability to go back and look at things and to have to think of something, and then be able to go back and see whether it was what you were thinking of old. To cross-references and to. and to be entertained as well. I think the difference this season as people really really got their virtual presence together. You know we've had a couple of. Dummy, runs that went. Wildly convincing. And I think this time there was so much thoughts and creativity and ingenuity applied to new ways of doing business that anyways. Bringing us to the world that that it was a very, very different game I felt. Yeah. You also got to spend. More time with the designers because. So much more I. Mean that was a mixed blessing in a way because normally it's three minutes backstage a few questions and he whiz off and do your review, and now it was forty five minutes zooms and so you having proper it reminded me actually it's funny. It reminded me of. When I first started covering fashion and I would go backstage interview designers and and people weren't that many people doing it in those days when there was a handful of camera crews and and you would end up in these. You know half hour forty, five minute conversations in depth with you know it was a novelty for you to be told to. It was a novelty for them to be talked to, and you would get people. You'd have these extraordinary conversations that would then be brutally truncated into like a thirty second sound by something for the for the broadcast. Meanwhile, the these conversations floating around in an archive somewhere at this, this is in a funny way. This is what it was like that. You would be having quite you. You'd be having talks with people and so when you went to write about the collection you when you're approaching collection a whole different level of insight I think you know it's so in a way, it was more time consuming and even though I wasn't kind of car with you driving from place to place flying from city to city all of that. It was more time can I was sitting in my room it was more time consuming and Matt sense that and more sought consuming and more and ultimately more rewarding in a funny way. I guess. I mean, we creating time capsules. You know there were few design as Jonathan Anderson. One of them saying he was creating time he felt he was making a time capsule and I guess all of us who've been involved in these last in this loss six months at a contributing to a time capsule and away everything you do people will look back on this as a record of very, very particular moment. I mean all these video f live conversations could be spliced into a really interesting. And a snapshot of the things that people were thinking and feeling. During this period. Did you feel in a general sense before we before we speak? About. Specific collections did you feel in a general sense? That the current environment, you know the pandemic, the economic crisis, the racial name. How did that filter into the shows? If at all, what did you? How did you see that if fashion they always say is a reflection of the times and culture I mean, how is our the current time? Reflected in collections this season. I think I think hugely. I've I think starting in London there was a huge acknowledgement of noxious the changes that were happening, but the changes that needed to happen and. Also of the obvious question people at the awesome cells, how does fashion fit into this change world? How how is what I do relevant? How can I make it relevant? and. That was. A. Huge huge shift. Inouye, we out of the woods, the uncertainty prevails, and it seems to be again reasserting itself majorly especially in London and possibly in Paris. So you know there was this there was this real sense I thought of getting on with it. You know whereas the uncertainty was created this kind of. Not Paralysis but Well that uncertainty Bretagne uncertainty and what we'd seen as people tried to assess the situation earlier on. This time people had been able to formulate their response and being able to express it coherently creatively. I. Think that everything that we we had to absorb. From him the George Floyd, on the. The Incredible. Governmental. Ineptitude. That that that we had to deal with and that we are still dealing with. Fashion designers. Responded to that in a way that that I found. I found it. So validating the people who the people who came at it with passion and sincerity old fantasy and. It was it was exciting to see that I can't think. Of another time in fashion where Obviously there hasn't been a time where there was this kind of challenge. There have been times when the industry was like nine eleven being one example with the industry was was. Fiercely challenged on designers with challenge on issues like relevance. This particular time saga many young people I felt especially in. London you felt. where? where it was hotter earlier in the year to see a future this time. You could. And you could see. You could see the whole notion of of people. Absorbing the idea that that. They. would be smaller but more real. And more responsive and the whole notion of a dialogue with a customer genuine dialogue with custom only sings that I think are incredibly valuable insights you could see them actually. Taking fate and you can see them becoming. You can see solutions where few months ago you would just sink problems. Well. Let's start with London because you that's always were we begin and you know in the meantime we have so many people watching I thought maybe we could use the chat function and hear your responses Collection First, set of collections will focus on London. So if you're watching and you followed the London collections maybe in the chat share what your top collections were in London while I'm asking Tim the same question. So Yo Tim you set that you know there's you know there was an ingenuity in the way that the London designers approached their collections and responded to the times we're living in and you know what? What, what, really stood out to you this season what will the the fact is that London designed businesses have always tended to be smaller anyway. So ingenuity is very important. People have It. It's it's been about. been about more the joy of making rather than the. I WANNA BE A. Billion dollar business in ten years. So thing. I thought what was really interesting is that one of the things that was really interesting Designers. That in the past I have. You know I've enjoyed what they do, but I've never really thought too deeply about it. You know. Really, seem to they did what they did but it flourished. and. I'm thinking particularly about Michael How Who who's always had been, he's always had that sort of oh he does disco clothes. Label attach now this is studio fifty, four redux sequence glamour and Flash and joy and was always, of course with the melancholy that's attached to discuss. I do find discovered credibly melancholic music. and. This season he did that but he also made his show the the is online as the presentation into a salute to frontline workers. He chose I think eight women who were all like a cleaner in an ICU cube Dr Dr I mean he put together a cross section of women and he dressed them in Michael Health and close with Paddy Wilson Styling and Sam McKnight doing the hair and. and. Having been nails done with the fabulous manicurist now my. December hold my head right now. and. You know. Gave Them. Took them out of there. Actually. Quite dangerous jobs. And and just gave this joyous experience which totally. which was a total. Validation of what fashion can do you know if you look good you feel good and and willows things about uplift enjoy a and and it was. So I mean I think a lot of people cried when they when they what his his his footage I know I did. 'em. At the same time what I loved was. The defiance and I felt bad in London I felt the defy London's very good London London. British designers of always done defiance extremely well. And this but this season, there was the defiance was. Was Joy joy was. Joy was defined dot com. So I mean I, I know Justin Vivian, bond talking about. Being, defiance is a certain kind of. All sit and kind of movement in that direction as well. But you know Monte gotta did the same thing and It's incredible to think of gigantic bubble of tool pink tool being a defiant gesture, but she was so pissed off at how At how certain areas in the industry just circled the wagons and just? You know she said, you know she told me my my businesses bat is is balanced is delicately balanced in the supply chain and the minute somebody decides to interrupt the chain. A whole thing is threatened and a whole lot of people are and and she's she was amazed at people who she's always trusted and believe in how. Has Self interest kind of overwhelms when but she instead of she said, she said a little bit. You know the season was doc. In a head she was GonNa do something quite Samba and monochrome, and by the time she got she was allowed back into a studio. She was just so fury that said she just boone blew it all up with color and that was that was another collection I just loved because. You think about. Wow. What a lovely go kind of to to the whole thing you just defiant joy. And you know it's interesting people's responses, Christopher Canes Response was really interesting. I mean he he? In lockdown he'd been painting. And he transmitted these paintings of these incredible glittering glue paintings. This is furious spilling out of stuff just wild stuff and he transmuted it into into onto his clothes but he said it's not because the. The collection was actually secondary to the painting to the therapeutic. Activity of the painting, and so he doesn't doesn't even know if he's going to sell the close but I I just this kind of idiosyncratic. Response the other thing I was so wonderful about London was the number of women who independent woman designers who just made. Incredibly strong statements even from baby businesses they were you know Biak Saunders Supreme. Iowa and. and. Pari officials These superstrong. Presentations that would that would just? Provocative and affirmative and. Positive, and none of these people is on is on safe ground. In. It just it was. Lovely I thought. Yeah. It's it's interesting because the the group of designers you've mentioned are all you know for the most part except for maybe Christopher saying some of the really. You know younger stat in the Monday and seen, but then there was also. Burglary. And by reading your review, I can see that back. That show did not resonate with you. What, what was it that it just didn't work for you? Well, for me, it just didn't work. Technically I was frustrated. I logged onto. The various platforms you could log onto. and. I loved onto one of them and I suppose I should have scooted around and maybe found what other platforms was showing. But I saw the the musical performance I didn't really see the clothes I saw the live music accompaniment and didn't really get a proper look at the collection or even really have a sense of of what the. Whole, the whole performance, the presentation was about. So I found that quite for straightening be honest. But that it's you know it might be maybe anybody people would tech seven manage to skate around and seed. I can't remember what I was watching it on. But make you watching on twitch I was watching it on twitch. Will we were watching on twitch together and? Having a little will. Could you were you able to move around on twitch and get it from development? I mean what? What twitch offered, which I thought was interesting because it's not a platform that I. Ever used before, is that you you've you live? Live streams from multiple different camera angles so You kind watching sports screens at the same time and I think you know this was burglary was a kind of the first of many of the big brands trying to figure out what exactly how are we going to show this season? So maybe we should talk about some of those other shows because there is a bunch of people who did films and still images and stuff, and let's talk about that in a minute. Yeah I absolutely love an impulse who that the Oscars the German said they're there To work with I mean I saw the Senate, the at the Allan Zana's and it was stunning. I. Didn't see the thing of the tate modern but it was incredibly visceral analysts maybe the notion of showing burberry closing. was maybe. There was a sort of I know Ricardo said she's she's loves trench coats. So there was kind of connection but maybe what she does a visceral that that there was a sort of disconnect between the. Content with something. Yeah. Lots of other brands. Tried to do a similar thing which was to. Do Live broadcasts of a physical presentation sometimes without guests. So if you think Abou- Valentino or you think about product which had a prerecorded presentation and then broadcast it to the the world There were several brands that went down that route in which of those resonated for you both in terms of being able to experience the collection, but also the collection itself. What well, the the there was some that will much more straight does much straighter than the Joseph Algesiras show was a film of a models walking. Angeles lack of Anto who writes for B. O. S. wasn't he didn't feel that it showed close off to best advantage but because it was actually a really lovely collection, but actually it was very, it was very plain but I thought that were quite well. I don't know how many cameras that will maybe two or something three, but he's going to say the one hundred whatever. But that it was just very straight with the music and the models who can you saw the close? It was very clear. Very Chris. Valentino I don't have thousands of cameras and at the cameras have settled. So I felt I never got a good look at anything. In fact were dresses. I really wanted to look at that I don't think I even even sore I sell them from a distance and I was at where all they were out there and they came walking there was a drone shot of a walkout us and there was this. Said, the cameras were just to peripatetic that we just hoping around all over the place produce. Technological was brilliant because the fact that it was a film of models woking was made into the the core of it that there was a sort of chandelier cameras suspended and the models would engaging. It was like it was like you with the camera. So very very direct and I thought those some of those camera movements reminded me of that Plato's Atlantis show. That Alexander McQueen did those moving cameras the cameras in the technology almost became part of the presentation but I think what? What made the product Joe feel so effective was that it was really simple in straight Edward. Easy, to clothes, I think we're some of the brands went a bit awry as they tried to add too much in there. So became very difficult to kind of separate. The kind of musical performance from like the installation from the collection while. I. What was intriguing about fraud is that I had all these other things going on in my mind you know that movie ex Macarena, the Alex Garland film ex Maxima and will say there's an old Julie Christie movie called Demon seed. and. She's in this house where she kinda gets. Kidnapped Pie computer sort of. So it had that kind of that was at slightly sinister undertow. Models when the models were looking at the camera was kind of Oh. Yeah. You know you want you want to pay somebody or something like that. In the end it was a real tension that even though the setup was, you know one room with a models walking in one room and the cameras it was extremely dramatic. It felt like. It achieved a huge effect would very defined resources whereas other shows that were massive with all the technology in the world just closed you out. You know I I thought. Was An interesting case because when I was talking to Maria Grazia puree and one of my pre show zooms. And and and it was a very important collection to her and very a very intimate in its creation obviously working remotely and following on from. Pre Collection her resort collection polio, which had been very, very close to heart and she said, this is what this is how she wanted to work forevermore in this very intimate on collective way. I felt the show didn't serve that because it was bay again, it was droning and withdrawn views was just a lot was if the shy was formed in a crucible of intimacy, it was delivered in the sort of slightly grandiose weighed that that diluted. So I guess the moral of the story that was an chanel same thing the biggest show the less engaged I was. The big of physical show was less engaged Iran. You know like the Chanel show you could. You could. Cameras moving and you you got the models crisscrossing abuse all the close ups of people not been quite sure where they should walk and. It was a little bit awkward I thought. I think that's why the other reason the Prada show worked as it was a pre-recorded show so they can edit it in a way. that. Some of the Miss hops that not been when you have a live. Show and you're like you're having caught between different Cameroon's real time and you don't know. Exactly what's going to happen but because they basically recorded in advance and gave us you know and and the models would directed very well. Also I mean they let that? Count Right. Thing was so affected just like acumen eight grade you get accused Saudi was it was it was good. It was. Very. Strong, and so Tommy M that was obviously the most repeated show season. You know because it was Rasim. is in Mrs Products Versus Election Together. How how did that combination? Manifest itself in your. Eyes. I thought it was interesting when they were talking afterwards because they both made the point will wrath made the point that one season maybe? He'll do it and and mutual say yes, I like that another season she'll do he'll say, yes, I like that. I felt this was a season where he he did it and she said like that felt. The sort that Jasjit with the coats being held like this there was was a a lot of things that felt the Music Bang classic man you know Richie, who one of his favourite deejays. And the would pieces heated departure one of his old collaborators. I. I never think of mutual partner is being literal a designer and so to see the woods on the clothing, I found a little bit disorienting in in the context of Prada that those slightly of cryptic slightly surreal messages she communicates in a in a more subtle way I think. So I, I thought it was. It it did you know and she did say this is the beginning and we didn't have much time to work on. We didn't get to work together the way we wanted to work together because of the the Corentin team and. Obviously, that both forward to win it coalescence as they imagined would and they both they both said this. So I think that we take this as will she she created Ground Zero with her last collection purely. You know with herself as as the creative director last the last season said, this was the first season with both of them co creative director says, and so if she was kind of saying that that was proud of the blank slate last time this was Prada, the slate things slightly filled up and I imagine that it will be a I look forward to seeing. Sing I. I'm not sure that there was an apologetic note whether saying afterwards, but you know just I think they will worry about saying it will be more what it is going to be next time you know that's the message getting any. Okay. So that's kind of some of the digital experimentation we saw, but then there were other designers. Who decided to do things maybe. A bit old school or a bit more analog. Let's say rather than digital. Latte in the men's shows. I know you are a huge fan of what Jonathan Anderson, created? With the show in the box both for. W, Anderson and for low ave what did you make of his show on the wall this season while he did another wonderful show in a box that himself then he did this. Incredible show on the wall I mean just. And I actually I had a dream last night. Where he did one lust box. And it was lunch. It was bizarre a lunch box I was I was I was cleaning everything on the books. Last vision of my dream was as big spoon with a single walnut sitting in it. So I, don't know I don what? Freudian. Interpretation apply to that but. The. Bucks was so huge and so heavy sitting in my hallway. I opened a once and then. It was a thing of wonder. I mean anthea Hamilton and autism has collaborated with in the past made wool paper I notice online people and that was glue and there was a brush I notice online that people situations in Los. Angeles. Actually put the wallpaper on the wool. Think. He did in the bathroom. They were then there was this. Wonderful Book of the collection which just. You gave you the whole thing. Gave you shot only. The objects that were in the box, and then shot the accessories. All of photography work on that book I thought was beautiful. It was a little. Beetroot. Impregnated ceramic thing as a room room Senate other words. You could create away environments the assault and there were life-size posters of the collection that. It was suggested you glue on the wallpaper new finished hanging the wallpaper. You just slap up these life size images of the collection the whole thing was. So furiously, it was so surreal but so kinda. magnificient in a funny way and did you feel like you were able to understand the collection and really get in? Yeah I it. You know the whole notion of of he said something. So wonderful I discount remember what it is right now. Thinking back about about that collection but. The. He what he's always been amazed amazingly adept at doing is bringing the past into the present. In his collections you look at his clothes and this collection to. There were a lot of historical echoes. He still kind of historical garments echoed in I. Mean he's He's looked at Cuba England he's looked at. He's looked at. Also different elements to the post You know the the British and Irish. He's being talking lava being a Spanish label he's been talking about. Exploring Spain's cultural history. So the weather those shapes that you associate with Spanish old masters in the Product Museum in. Madrid and so that was at the same time then he POKES it into the future so You're looking at something, which could honestly be a hundred years ago one hundred years in the future. And then by creating this environment. That you could view the clothes life-size. I guess you know it's creating this dialogue and a very interesting way is sort of. And cultural, and and also the emphasis on Croft which which is so important to him and the engagement that it becomes something you'll portal something you'll. Participating in as well and and you know if you if we think of passive fashion as. This felt this felt so new in a way that you think how would you ever go back to doing a fashion show? I mean I have a few questions like I said citizen in my whole had some big. I've talked to him to McAfee Warren. She said, she didn't even open his because it was so cute. She just looked at other people doing it online. It broke my heart to think that. Oh you know they might be people who just stick it in the recycling in. I mean my. Are West Year but. Where it went but we actually we use some of the wall paper and Redid. Some old. Tables that. A, I mean what was fun about it as you said, was that. You know anyone could kind of take the creativity in the collection in the way it was presented and kind of adapt it and twist it and do their own thing with it, and then you know as we are in the age of social media, all of that was like playing out online. So if we judge success of a fashion show based on the conversation a creates. In the in the kind of digital space than. His boxes and the show on the wall were very very successful. I wonder what the metrics would say I don't have the metrics, but it just it felt like it spread around and it. Really is something that people will remember from this time. The thing is it would it would just be glorious gimmick. It's the clothes. You know that that's that that's where it's really that's where it becomes exciting that some. It. The clothes will wonderful the clothes Merritt kind of elaborate exaltation. And you know it such A. There were certain things like Jonathan. The Luay. Box being one of them. But I thought John Galliano's film sommes on my Jello was another one where you looking at fashion. In a way you've never looked at it before and as he said in the film, How am I ever GonNa go back to doing fashion show. Because it was just so. Enthralling you sat for forty minutes looking at this. Film. That he made with Nick Knight that. was everything from. You know the very very beginning of the collection like the the first flicker inspiration to this elaborate tango. You know the sort of spectacle of the clothes in furious motion. A it was from the very beginning to the to the very end the The journey you know which Nick Knight did with Gareth Pugh for the collection, a Gareth put together the same kind of idea the interest in process we did see that in the. With the couture in the man shows earlier in the year that that that you know, say for example, an and a modular again, focusing focusing on the process, you know the the act of creation and that's it's like Jonathan's bucks you know you drawn in your your, you become a participant in the whole thing and If it kind of I think it. You know in an optimistic way, it changes people's relationship with fashion. It will change people's relationship with fashion I. Wonder if they'll still demand this kind of access on everything because you know Greece, van noten who's one of the greatest schoneman and fashion One of the greatest show time he has done some of the best fashion shows and he loves fashion shows and it breaks his heart. He couldn't do one. He uses economy of means to make you know a something that was as impressive not as impressive as a lawyer by box was that was just like a massive but. You, know this multi focal look at his new collection with a he did what will the photographer Vivian Sassan I mean Marwan moral of the story is. Choose your collaborators because Nick Knight. On was in crow has been incredible Vivian fastens, wonderful photographer and. She and he said he'd deduct photographer. He say they wanted to work with her for a while instead of doing a show. They took his collection to the beach out in Russia outside Rotterdam and shot it in Rotterdam Amsterdam a beautiful editorial shoot with close. She does color photography. So incredibly well, the clothes really coming to life he was inspired by New Zealand Gaza Swift Fashions in education. You do learn something everyday from Coo Land Lie who in the Twenties Thirties and forties was making these experimental films at honestly looked like the most perfect out effects of Psychedelia you've. Ever seen in your life. So she made a film using lend lights lend lies films projected on the models, and then she did editor living ended this aditorial shoot. It was an interview with Greece very nice interview. Agree. Then they'll will own of land lies films. So you've got this whole package. And if you wanted to explore a different facet of the collection, you just go back into it look and this was this is everybody has access to this I. Mean this is another interesting thing. We're all looking at this stuff at the same time. So we always were but I guess I guess what's different not always but in recent seasons, everyone was watching online while we were physically present at this is the talk first time that. Taken in all the shows through the through a screen, the same way you anyone could experience. Than what's what's the purpose of somebody may writing about them? You know when everybody's got the evidence of the rain is to go on. So I think turned into an big his, you know as one as one of our commenters is posted in the chat you bring you bring unique insight. And Present Snyder. Honest. With honest humanity and that's from Sandy Becker who said. WHO's one of our our attendees today? So I think still someone needs to be able to like bring it all together and kind of makes sense because not everyone has the same kind of expansive eligible. You know and I guess everybody sees everybody sees. Like. A hit movie but everybody will read a few people writing about that hit move. You're curious to see what so so inside says about you know the new. Jordan peele movie. The. New you know. Father John, misty record, or something like that you. So WanNa doesn't matter that you heard at the same time. They heard you wanna see what they say so I, feel it does kind of change. Change the role of Fashion criticism a little bit but I think that's A. Conversation for another time. So. I've just asked the group here what their top shows were in. Paris. So while we're life getting the feedback in from our community here, I mean what really stood out to you from the shows that would normally happen in Paris and I'm thinking like, for example, Rick Owens is always one of your favorites. This season bring me bring me to Rick Islands showing on the Lido in Venice light literally walk away from where he lives how handy showing outside that a massive movie theater that massive sort of Bruce a-list movie. Might be a movie theater where they have used for the which they used for the Venice Film Festival and the models walking. In a collection of felt new for him. It was a really different energy in that collection. And Shoot Shoulder. Those fabulous. Shorts like stubby with. With the pockets hanging. The short cut really short the short MS pockets hang down. Below the hemline of the Of the pockets I think we I think that used to be cool studies anywhere in America. and. There was that sort of. You know that Glam energy he's being he's been Ceiling for a few seasons. But I will say I also felt his collection with A. Unfortunately, we couldn't hear it on the on the soundtrack, but he wasn't to use it on Youtube, but it was a remix of I feel love. Special REMIX. Of I feel by Donna summer. So that sort of we could hear another another next but. There was a kind of. Defiance you know like he has defined better than anybody but this was a joyful defiance and is a lot to be defined off. God knows he is. He's his engagement with fangs is intensifying. And I just saw that collection was so great. It was great. That that at the end when the drone pulls away and it just keeps going and going and going, and you see the road and then you see the beach and then you see the sea and that drone is still going up up up. I think it did actually cut just before you felt my God, it's going to be swallowed up by A. ufo something it. It just felt. It had it. He's he he his shows always on this grand scale. That always magnificent. There was always something fiercely elemental about them and doing the show in his own backyard it. I. Guess it was. He didn't have to create. The grand jury already existed in an NFL that was magnificent. What you set off the said Wanted to mention because I loved that film. The sunglasses at night film with models walking around Paris At was a and he showed he showed a some pre collection i. mean he was he's completely shifting his calendar. 'em He's going to do one show year in June couture the I I like that film. I watched it a few times I just thought it was so. It was a you know make video. It was really and with sunglasses at night being one of those quintessential ACC video songs. There was a lot of wit I thought really there was a lot of this season two. I have to mention marrying says film as well because you can go back and watch that whole Lotta Times. Yes someone someone in the comments brought Marine Sarah Film by far saying it was their top highlight while it's so good. I mean it really. Really illuminates. It. Really literally brings close ally. It gives them a whole of. Is Interesting talking about changing your relationship with fashion? When you when you experience close like this it. Gives you the sort of. Aspiration always considered to be a very powerful force in fashion and I i. think it I think it's I. Think it's been kind of diluted of time but these films actually were stole that sense of aspiration you know because. The best of them have just created these really weird worlds that you quite happy to be apostle. So Tim, you know. Are you a convert to this new way? Yeah. experiencing fashion. Yeah. Absolutely. What do you think? So as we look as we look ahead to. Two January and February redrafting that. Far. Away. And the pandemic at least here in Europe is entering what's clearly a second wave in a much bigger second wave. If you look at any of the the data in the cases, it seems unlikely that will have. A so-called mal fashion week in January February either. So perhaps this way of presenting fashion is going to be the way report we experienced fashion rate. For some time yet, and then the bigger question is, as then will go back. What what do you think's going to happen But I think I would imagine people who may be fence sitting a little bit would have looked at this season and seen what at everybody now has a better idea of what works how to make it work you know it's important to the whole the whole sense of of. Being in this together, we're all in this together that the line that you know the government was shutting down our throats at the very beginning of. It. You can see how These a lot of these things have been entirely collective endeavors have been collaborations between the designer and filmmaker musician whatever you know. It is. It is it knowledge in something that fashion has always always been which is all about teamwork. and. It changes the sort of. Fundamental conception of fashion as being the designer, you know the work of the designer. Now, we have this much milk, a much more collaborative thing happening. We see. We see designers acknowledging the collaborators and and and you know. Really. Quite in in great detail everybody gets everybody gets nine check everybody who's worked on on things gets the name check. That that's shifts I think. Because now. I think that. I think it's a sort of it's a reflection of of of how going to get by I. WE'RE GONNA get through this crisis. Everybody's GonNa get through this crisis that. We have to help each other. As much as we can as much we were allowed to from bubbles and `isolation cells and so on. I think I don't see with what's happening in Europe now of USA January. And February. A pretty shaky propositions I mean march is looking that good either. I wouldn't have thought if we if we have a winter that is shaping up to be a pretty intense winter here I mean I just read that this being more hospital admissions in the UK than even at a peak of the pandemic earlier in the year so. Even if people are dying. Is still ill and very ill and this is. This this is going to roll on for a while and I think what we just saw. We saw fashion I think we saw. The. Best of it was fashioned adapting extremely well to a completely different set of circumstances. If the business follows if the Baya's follow if the retailers so on and so forth if everybody had A. In this way than. People might say, we don't need to climb on a plane twenty times a year to go to the other side of the world we don't need. Those things that You know I think. that. That a lot of people did say that that doing it, this way was more expensive than doing a show. You know that in the end, it was more complicated and expensive in doing a show. But again, that's something that people. Will adapt to I mean. On sitting as I said, I'm sitting at my desk perfectly comfortable at a drink and I have a sandwich or whatever, and I get to watch these things and and then if I go back and watch the game right afterwards and I don't have to jump in a condo something else you know on can program by. My exposure 'em its. Very very illuminating and pleasant experience for me I I. Guess There's lots of people would say, Oh, the say the opposite of that but I could totally see this becoming. Less, what I miss is the I. Missed the collective experience of fashion week. So, there's that moment when you go to like a really incredible show. And, you have that kind of shared experience with all of the people who were there, and you can't quite explain or translate what happened physically in that space accepted at kind of other people because you had to be there and it was just the exchange that even I had with you in between shows like I just feel like the Axa part of that's really missing is that conversation with our peers street with the buyers with the CEO's like I missed that part of fashion week the most I mean I did not miss. Running around like crazy person for four weeks but I miss the interaction for me. If fashion week ceases to exist. We need to find another way to bring that group of people together because it's like senator. Such a sense of. Global Fashion Community at me well, I out. There's this. Just realizing that if I never went to another fashion show, they were literally dozens of people have been out of my life for the last few decades I will never ever see again. which is, which is kind of. You know a kind of sad. And you know if I let myself go down that path obviously out rounding my garments but you know. I'm quite quite solid tree as you know. So I have I enjoy I've enjoyed my relate mind I've enjoyed mine new relationship with fashion a lot and I don't feel like I'm cheating my old relationship with fashion but you're right. I will have to make an effort with willows people I mean they don't make an effort with me so I don't feel so guilty you know might might fun isn't right now expected expected ton of like emails and text messages. All of the Oh we miss you. No it's true. I mean it's admitted lesbian and anew it's been an unusual season and. It looks like next season's not going to be anything close to what we used to have so but. This was a appetizer for a future it. It tasted pretty good if it was an appetizer for possible future is it tasted pretty good. Will on on that note, I would like to thank you for as always sharing your candidate thoughts and to all of you who've joined us from all around the world including friends of ours like Diane Cornell who says, I, totally agree with you him which. Off Diana's one of those people that Tim nine only get to see when we're in Paris. So we we missed fashion week as we knew it for relationships, but maybe we could get used to this new kind of fashion rate going forward so on. Thank you, Tim, and thanks to all of you for joining us I'm run Ahmet founder and CEO The business of fashion. We have lots more B. O. F. Live events happening every single week. If you want to see a full calendar events, please visit isn't fashion dot com slash events. That's all for now that year from London. Keep you safe. Thank you everybody back appetizer. and. If, you've enjoyed this episode. Don't forget to subscribe give us a rating and you might be interested in joining the business of fashion global membership community -bio professional are members receive exclusive deep dive analysis, regular email briefings, as well as unlimited access to our archive of over ten thousand articles our new iphone APP, and all of the online courses and learning materials from off education and.

London Tim blanks Paris Jonathan Anderson founder and CEO Europe Imran Ahmed Christopher Canes Prada London Justin Vivian editor Senate Global Fashion Community Greece founder Sasha Jeff Nick Knight
Imran Amed and Tim Blanks on Where Fashion Goes From Here

The Business of Fashion Podcast

00:00 sec | 4 months ago

Imran Amed and Tim Blanks on Where Fashion Goes From Here

"In. The momentum that change cannot be diverted cannot still it must roll on and I think fashion has to be part of that. What do you make of this digital fashion week? That's just happened. And how long do you think that has real legs? We've taken out of the actual physical experienced fashion show. With given this other, not physical human insight into why people do what they do and how they do. That by mood, then the finding. Shen. Hi, this is Ron Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion and welcome to the podcast. Each season after fashion Mumbai. Sit Down with Tim planks, and we hash out what we've learned what we've observed and what we've taken away from the latest season, a fashion shows of course this season was completely different, but it was still worth having a catch up with Tim to explore. Fashion goes from here here's. Tim Blanks inside fashioned. Everybody a welcome to be oh ethel lives. I'm here with Tim blanks our editor at large, and you know usually around this time of year, Tim and I have spent. Several weeks on end in the back of a car. Navigating Fashion Week. And so we thought well. We can't do that this year, but Tim, I've still been keeping in touch of course and We usually record podcast conversation. Just reflecting on the fashion season that was and so we thought well. There's still a lot to talk about so I asked him. To join me, welcome Tim. I am Ron. How're you doing good? Good I like your shirt. He said mutually good. I'm seeing. New, thing glamour. Lack Raw Glam rock. Okay Difference. I'm not capable of climate, but I am capable of Glam rock some. Well. Our conversation today is called where it is fashion. Go from here and I know it's something that's been. On your mind a lot, it's certainly been on my mind but before we dive into that specifically you were I guess four months foreign a bit months into lockdown now or limited I, I sort of I date the transitional moment I came back from Paris on Much A. Figure that March the was the day that you could feel the storm, clouds had kind of well and truly Gabid of the fashion so I kind of date everything for much. The I think the last time that we saw anybody actually in our flat was March the seven nine. And said however many citizens. Zana's how how however long it is since we haven't seen anybody. and everything's being done like this kind of digitally signed the last time you and I saw each other in person was record our podcast for the end of that season and I. You know I don't know. I. Don't know if you remember what we talked about. It was obviously a very strange moment, and we didn't know what was about come, but one of the questions that we were grappling with. was whether we would all look back at that fashion week in and wonder if it was irresponsible for all of us to be sitting in a snuggled up next to each other at fashion, shows and dinners while this. Virus was spreading and what we know now tim is virus was spreading. It was readying actively in Italy and in France just as fashion week was going on so looking back now. What what do you think? I. I wasn't thinking irresponsible I mean there was. But because you know, we live Italy the the day we left Italy giorgione cancel the show. And Joe Digitally and there was a little bit of kind of. Huffing and puffing about that and Oh let's so dramatic whatever and I and then the airport in Milan at night was like. The fall of Saigon It was just so crazy. Wasn't people trying to get out of the country? Where was people trying to get out of the county? No because they were panicking about virus necessary. Just it was a set. It was sense of. Some enormous. Ominous! Force? and then getting to Paris and finding that you know people were saying. Shall we shop wait? You'll have a show in nothing. Really the either a couple of shows cancel. was still you know I always competitive? This that whole moment in World War Two that was? One that was a sinkhole. The phony war before the war actually started. There was moment where everybody knew that was going to be a war, but it hadn't happened, so they were kind of. Suspended animation and that's kind of what it was. Td that this because. I don't think anybody knew it was gonNA. Be As bad as it turned out to be at coins. But still it was a solo. Remember I was in the I. Requirements often before his show. He said to me. You think this is the one. And I said well. Do you and I just didn't know that point, and and you know what the weird thing is. Allocating many months later, this March April may June five months later. We still don't know because I. Feel, the feel it. Still the the doctors who will leading out shaping our opinions on this I don't think. Completely show what it is at dinner would. It just it just feels you know when you read. Eddie meteorologists is so excited by this virus, because it is such a challenge and a multi focal. It's just this incredible. Opportunity to delve deep into something that human beings have never encountered before and inside the fashion industry has just kind. I'm concerned is still like everybody else is still not this dilemma. What's going to happen? But I think we do know that this is the one I mean. There may be others at come after this based on what I've been reading, but this pandemic is shaping up to be you know one of those. Collective experiences of complete. Change, yeah, an and I think it's at fifteen million cases now. You know hundreds of thousands of people at I mean I think it's as you said I. Don't think any of us knew back then. How bad it was going to be, but it's certainly. It's certainly shaping up to be much much worse than I think. Many of us expected I. Mean I think when I was talking to a couple of CEO's in this over closing. We thought we were closing our stores down for a couple of weeks. And then obviously that turned into months. And you know the all the talk about first-wave second-wave I am using the Spanish flu as a as a as a sort of. Precursor. You know the fact that the first wave was in the full in there was a summer at the second wave was in the following fool. Could Lord I mean. We have no idea of what we could be looking at in. Another four or five months so. Yeah. It's A. It's being A. It's been a challenge I. Think Real, good huge challenge for the everybody on every level of every life almost everywhere in the world. And the nothing like that has ever happened. How is it so? Let's talk about fashion week because. You know without. Intentionally aging you, but you've been going to fashion week. Something like three decades or more that right I went to well. I went to my. Fashion Show in Paris in ninety, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty eight, but I've been working industry for Food. I say forty. It's okay. This is the first brand. So, this is the first season. In. Uh. Ever. You that. Nine eleven was seriously disrupted. The shows in Europe did have. After nine eleven, but there was there was that of incredible disruption. But aside from that I can end, and then I suppose Icelandic volcano in another way because travel plans interrupted. But it in in the sense that there was there was something that was obsolete in combat now never ever been anything like this it was. It wasn't a do we, don't we? It was at we don't. Yes so there's never been busy life this view you find that you missed being a fashion week! You miss that environment. Do Miss the shows to miss those amazing conversations. You have with the designers gymnasts hanging out with me back in back in I can. That the hatred dishes of cod that we drug. I don't know. Maybe we have some kind of weird lower lifelong, because I'm positive that we must be exposed to the virus slowly traveling. Milan Harrison for some reason it just to win looking round the other way, but. I, You know to be honest. There were other things that I found equally. Engaging, I have never exercise in my life. and. I was on the swim team at school. I Li-, but that was under years ago. I sat at woking furiously through the world like soaking the jumping birds in. You know the clear blue skies. We had an amazing web. It was like nature sang. Aw You off my back I'm GONNA I'm GonNa enjoy myself, and we have an amazing web, and and it was so good to be out doing things and. Doing things I don't usually do and I got on top chef on television. American top chef I'm up to series eleven Tom Coleco is my new hero. All of them. Every sin of series eleven I think six. Oh! It's so good. It's a reassuring note. That is a big lump of top chef. I haven't seen I mean it's this is the mind time became so elastic you mind settles into these kind of reassuring analyses, and so when the show time rolled around. And I was thinking today I would be at today. I fully today I would be. Today will be going here today I would be. Nah I didn't Miss I mean. It wasn't like it wasn't like. I said it wasn't like wasn't in touch with people. And this communication I sound quite interesting This meaning Zoom Zoom Talk Damn. Because it was sort of controllable. and. I had some I've had some good conversations? Yeah, but in terms of missing the mechanics of the whole thing on, it's perfectly possible I was. Reaching the end of my. With that with that whole thing. I've been unflaggingly enthusiastic about going fashion shows for. Longer than most of the people I go to fashion. Show is being lives. Go to fashion shows being alive. I'm lately. I found there was something. You not whole industry was questioning its reason for existence before this happened you know and there were so many people on so many industries. Saying what this did was speed up something that was already happening. What would have taken five years to five months and I kind of I kind of agree with that that. If. You would ask yourself any questions about what it was. You were doing with allies. suddenly needed onces. You'd be going off for a long time. Now Very Long answer to your question. That's what I do since. Quick Questions Long. That's fine I have a tendency to do the same thing in. This is a discursive chat, so there's no. End Point I. feel the same way Tim I. For reasons I won't get into I mean I've had to go back through my calendar Back to two thousand thirteen and track where I've been every day for the last seven years. and. I looked at my my jewel and so much of my life. was consumed. By Fashion Week and it just made me wonder like. Really the best use. Of My time is the way I want to invest. You know that most precious. We have which is time next year I. I've had some amazing moments experiences during fashion week, so I don't want to. Kind of diminish those at all, but in terms of the way, spending, three or four months of our lives every year. Doing the at circuit it's it's. I feel a bit of a weight off my shoulders. If I'm honest, you know and I know that sounds terrible because I love this industry and you know I've you? I've seen some incredible things but I also felt strangely liberated by the lockdown. I feel. It made my mind up. Fully the hats which quite live comfortably lazy so i. A, put myself in a in a situation where the situation resolved is a question that I might be ask myself. I the other thing. That when you mentioned time. How much time! People talk about going to the shows. In Paris woman! But going to show, you have A. Twenty minute show. Or fifteen minutes show with A. Nineteen minute block around it maybe more sometimes a lot of. Wouldn't eating eggs. Sit Down and look at how much time I have sat waiting I. Know The thirty five full more years I've been going to session shows how many of those days have been filled with wasting? I'm very very patient. Person Patients is truly the chew It's definitely. Helps deal with the ludicrous situation at everybody's finding themselves in political politically but I think my patients to be tried in class awhile and last season. Even though. All the time like you say there are these moments, says Oh, elevating the elevated. You just entrust by what other people are capable odds. That voice said that about this about fashion. I've always said this about the fact that people say to your credit. Not We critic because. I'm an owner of the things that other people capable and even. Ben Not. Good whatever that still somebody expanded a lot of time and creativity doing something that I can't do. So I found. That was kind of very inspiring thing of the always wonderful things I mean fashion is very. Fashion has this magic that it's like a vortex that sucks to it. Music Art, movies, television, ballet, and color in blackness and gloom and. And more than more than any. I've worked in every almost every single creative feel that you. Doing this along during things along time before I was fashion, and I think think fashion is in a way, the most pleads. It has all forms of human life in it and not faint. Probably what we've seen recently as is fashioned, trying to come to grips with the iniquities. Know the imbalances injustices though the prejudices and all that stuff on this is you know so many other. Areas so many other parts of human life trying to. Humanity trying to. Trying to resolve these these longstanding issues. And, so in in that made it all more interested. Santa, in a IN A. In a wonderful way. That wasn't a question on Santorum was it. Discursive Chad. In light of The kind of. Acceleration or illumination that this period has given to you about your opinion on fashion me. and. Added on top of that, you know the discussion that you and I have been having. An and and the series. You've been writing about some of your. Fashion shows of all time. Those amazing experiences that are. Logged in your incredible brain. What do you make of this digital fashion week? THINGAMAJIG? That's just happened and how? How? How long do you think that thing has has real legs? That was that was. Phase one. And I. You know one thing I wasted about. Fashion shows the real physical fashion show, obviously the real physical factor. Joe Is an incredible. at Davis fashion shows are the most. Magical mystical ritual. replaceable because the whole, the whole reason for being a physicality there, the communion communion communion of people that investment that ordinance makes an incredible show. You'll get this. Incredible, incredibly elevated Transporting experience, obviously, that is not. You can't duplicate that on a screen whatever but what I've always said when I was reviewing a show. When I was writing about fashion, I was reviewing show besides what the design of one we'd see of their collection. That is what. A designer AD had created as Woman's ambassador of. The season so I would write about what they wanted to be looked at. And I felt that Phil about what we saw over the last couple of weeks at this is what design is wanted me to see what they would do. So I'll think about that. I wouldn't even in some cases that were books because I was curious to see what the clothes black. If somebody had given me sort of attitude video, rather a mood video rather than you know. The ease of my clothes is mood. But I found I. Felt like I told you. I felt like I sat through festival of short films. Yeah, and I've. I've found the whole experience really. Fascinating, and some of it was incredibly enjoyable, and it was really interesting to see how so many different creative sensibilities approached the same challenge. And, Everything from the most sort of literal banal way to these extraordinary slight fancy, but you also got to see I. can you've got a strong sense of what would best? And that was interesting. Is The word off everything? After everything we've seen after every time. We know people capable of doing now with technology. The fence that were missed with the most human things, the things that were about people doing stuff and quite sort of straight Ford films of people doing stuff with the things that I enjoyed the most and some examples while on obvious examples may will. The miss the Amiss Lydia. The backstage video that was. It was I mean I know that it was technically kind of. That sort of. Nineteen, seventeen, the one shot it was. The missing so seemless than the way it is laid you all around the backstage in A. Lighted on the vignettes limited onto another thing I salute. That was amazing. Gauge a lot of insight into the collection into McCain's creative. I loved her on it. Film I love. She's not a showy. You know post show into you kind of designers. She just gets the job done in has been doing demons beautiful job for years at as an actress film was. That's the film you would want people to remember you by for. Obviously John Galliano surmise shower was incredible because. You saw him at work. You saw him creating you saw him. You saw the way he lays influences. You sold his own experiences. Wrapped up with my town Majelis experiences. You saw a collection literally taking shape. which I thought was incredible. I folk. Kim Jones video of. Joran interview with on. Both Oh. The Odyssey was inspired by collaborated with collection was wonderful because you know if you if you think that say. How many people who AH COMING TO LOOK at? The new deal collection would know that swells. You Watch that video you knew who was he soared in? Did you saw his media in in Ghana's sore? You so Kim talking about him? you so how it all connected, and it was the kind of thing. I mean if you've seen that. In an actual show with the collection would be lovely to see the actual close in movements into feel has essentially whatever you got an amazing sense of the collection with. The film that Chris Cunningham edited. The footage that on Ombo Close Shaw Ghana. And in Jackie Nicholson mazing photographer May. I'm war. OPPRESSIONISTIC on. Film of the collection of most two of those two things together. You knew the clouds. You undestood the clouds you you got, you got. Attitude will sit up there. You've got the dream, but you've got the reality. I that was incredibly good on. The these these things that gave you a glimpse a Asandra Sartori on Friday doing his Zenya film For the hundred and tenth Zanu was planning to do a huge show physical show in Rivera where the ZANU meals were built under ten years ago and obviously that wasn't muscles. have he'd signed to show you something? You would never be able to see. See Otherwise which was? Three point three Columbia. Cat will which has to end up in the Guinness Book of Records Longest Cat will ever. It wasn't really it was A. It was a three point. Three kilometre trek that the models May. Combining digital and physical through the forest the ZANU. Forest actually is ZANU forest which is. Fabulous I wanted a wolf to. Jump out and grab a model as A. Or Dea to run through Sunday was apparently there. Lots of wools lex woods. And then I moved into the mill to the archives. Save the actual. The weaver, either looms an-and up on the roof where they. Ended with a little more traditional and will outrage scene and Alissandria was waiting for them to talk about the clothes. And all of this was a sort of I guess oil Santa Behind the scenes, but it was. They were wool so intelligence. You know and then, of course Gucci to the. Daddy of the mole with a kind of wool, holy twelve hour point the camera and see what happens. Man Sleeping for eight hours, implies state buildings or twelve hours. This was Gucci. The cameras pointed things happening were happening. WHO Was Novelty. But it was all of that. I found those things found enthralling, and then there were the films that I loved which will. You could ask me about if you want to if you want me to talk about? they were the things that I would. Go you can watch again? On an industry was was was a lot taken. And I thought that was really reassuring. Funny Way that we've taken out of the actual physical experience fashion show, but we're given this other. Not, physical human insights. into. Why these people do what they do, and how do they do and? I found that quite. Quite I'm. Newton in a funny way. I thought it was going. So what do you think all of this? If this was phase one what do you think all of this means for September taking into account? What's going on with the pandemic? Some of the innovation that we've clearly seen over the last. Couple of weeks on kind of digital presentations and I think some people's deep desire. And some big groups and brands plans. To you to say the show must go on, I mean. What! What's your prognosis for what happens now? It's not it's not in our hands is A. I mean September, isn't. It adds it We don't know what's going to happen in September or in January I. I one thing. I don't know. Maybe you do. What what? What the numbers will I said? These things I mean what kind of audiences these These presentations. Got How many well as a good question, and of course, every brand and every fashion council will massage numbers. To look as big as possible, but just an anecdotal look at the view counts on some of these videos or looking at the number of live viewers watching. Say the Gucci thing at any given time. It was nowhere near the reach that a typical fashion show would have yeah, yeah. I watched Gucci thing on and off. Obviously didn't watch for twelve hours, but I watched at that peak moment when they were kind of doing the kind of showing all the looks and I think there was like four or five thousand people watching on Youtube at among at back given moment, and they probably had a broadcasting on channels in China, and in other places, but if you know when we do a live stream of at. Voices or to the summit. Recently we also had you know three or four thousand people watching at any given time, so it gives you a sense. That the amplify -cation. That they would normally have and I. Think if you saw the press coverage that came after I mean. Some people were telling me you know fashion week. Coverage used to get six pages in like. A hole in Paris and now it was reduced to one page so. The the the kind of overall reach I think we'll have to wait to see what those massage numbers looks like that. We get back from some of the brands, but it's a question I posed to our our editorial team today to say look, let's go look at some of the numbers and see what the market marketing value or earned media. Value is of some of this stuff because I suspect you're right at. It's at least I think you are implying that. Perhaps it didn't reach his biggest audience. Well, you know like the federal on Paris for example ahead that schedule. They had that calendar, and you could is very easy to click on A. Scroll Down Day. What every hopes! What video whatever? And I just wonder you know how many people sat did that? might come back to people who maybe had no interest in amazed. How. Riveted they were by the film I mean. This is a There's obviously I don't know what the payoff is in some for night bath. Brand building exercise. What exactly is a, but it was know some of them was so entertaining events, and then some of the films I mean. If you. If you didn't know around Mishra was for example, the Indian couturier who had a very beautiful little film on during cruiser. To chill weekend in Paris. of his of his clothes being made. And I found that that was the talk about the behind the scenes thing another thing that I was drawn by in an I've I consider myself pretty a pretty basic kind of listen, and as I I really like what should stuff being made, and you know dior couture. Had this film material Rooney Amazing Sewn Director. But he made the you know the mythic. This sort of mythic Re recreating myths with the deal could saw in very kind of white Very. Interesting. How why that was versus how're you know Joe men was inspired by black artists and Muse back models like the office, friends and family. and you'll was wide, quite blinding white. which is kind of A. Shock from this Directa. In and you know there was some controversy about that in regressive fury, said well. You know when you're inspired by Botticelli. You're looking at Botticelli's Czar Neil. Inspiration and Jewel has made the last couture collection last resort collection in Morocco was. An incredibly rich diverse on statement, and this just happened to be. A reflections I guess what they consider to be. The source material and people sit will help come. Nobody said anything about it and I was thinking afterwards. That material Baroni is such an amazing direct. I suppose Martin. Scorsese it made your collection so. The film Theo Collection I. Guess I don't Know How many people are gonNA. Say MASISCO Sese. You've taken meticulous track countless film and I don't know whether that we faced. A lot of people talked about it on on social media. I think maybe. The kind of mainstream fashion press didn't cover it in that way, but in terms of the conversation that was happening online. It certainly provoked to a response especially in light of. You know all the conversations that we're having inside passionate beyond. It's built. It felt distant that moment it's critically out of touch. But then the reason why I brought it up because the bit I liked in that film was actually the shots to be tally, because it was so beautifully filmed the sort of light through the motes of dust, ever in the women working because an end also in my when you see people selling, because it is such an extraordinarily met here it is. And in the same way that it's fascinating to watch film of Francis Bacon Painting. You know. Will a sculptor sculpting when you see actual hands and you seem. Botha fingers singer painting focus as he does. The that element I felt reminding people. That fashion is this very extreme evolved crossed. I thought was really good. I mean we're looking at fashion from from A. Looking at fashions from this. What this digital few weeks did was looking at session from a number of different angles I mean. I think Jonathan. Anderson did it better than anybody would. He made those boxes. He made a box zone out at boxx was. Way Mind blowing well. He called them time capsules, and in a hundred years. People are going to be looking at those boxes thinking. Wow, what was that time? Like they look in an annual everything from for week whatever were months, and then sealed it and put it away and you open it now. Fox's will never allergist. Mesmerizing and I think that was so clever. And that was you know the stuff that came out of this monument that. That You know I talk about Rahul. What was I laughed at me hiring a hero for the Japanese by way, the aced this digital digital nationally. Every. Every Japanese design made something that was so good. Rei. Kawakubo didn't show that Yogis film was really it was Punio. She but it was still lovely to see. You could feel the clouds I feel. Is Semi ocoee film. Honestly of. The films I saw. What if you're thinking about the promotion of closing? Of It will giving you an inside the actual slows in making you desire the clouds cycle that was the one that maybe under run to Yucky stop shopping by the clouds. Need much incentives that anyway. But The the Bahari yesterday. Hero film was a popper, says kind of. socking public things to a fashion show, and then actually sitting in seeing his close will. It was it was quite long, but it was so poignant, and for some reason it just ends in the darkness. The puppets kind of without the human. Animates his public. Just kind of slumped DOPP muscle. Metaphor. that. That's what I was thinking. I felt I. Always feel privilege that I've been able to see things I've seen, but there were moments during these couple of weeks where I thought I'm. Happy. Really happy I sold at now. I feel. Definitely got to see more than you'd normally see right. Back And and Yoji and some of these shows like you haven't been able to review all of those shows so you. You're able to cover more of the gamut you know because usually split shows with Angelo. Both at the. which must have been nice well, it was it was comfortable. It was convenient now. Am I didn't have to climate a car and drive for an hour something so. It was. Definitely that. So back to September. And you imagine getting on a plane going to Milan or Paris in September no. Not now come on all right now. I. Think Situations Incredibly Volatile i. But, but it'll. These women shows at a little bit of couture. This isn't the sort of full. The full momentum of on. This isn't. Like Greece for example, the taste the September. which I thought was very good. It was only a minute or so. It was a good taste SCRATCHY and WANNA see more. Worries, why isn't showing in September? Will the film lady show? The little short film Eddie showed with Janet's. Imaginary Drum. With a sort of exploding plastic, inevitable light shed behind him. which kind of velvet underground GonNa love something like that, but I'm now. I thought that was the idea that this sort of. Alexi see what happens. I mean people seem to be changing their plans. What I think at some point trees came out and said he's not going to do a show and. This was. What I'm saying that there were a lot of big guns wants present in this various reasons And SA- Tamba. If I if if it was if something happens, that makes the suit of physical thing impossible. Obviously, if everybody is preparing a visual correlative of digital correlative of said actual collection changes everything. It's going to be a lot more. Difficult level clotted I feel that there were people in the schedules. Who you normally. Maybe wouldn't. Be Aware of calendar. WHO has slot and. I can see as being a lot more crowded in September of everybody has to do this, but has shown. How do you do I mean I know dolch into banner and extra did. Did socially distance shows on I proved it was possible. I think if they happen. The shows will be highly localized in terms of the audience. Because I don't I think most people are like you can't really imagine themselves. Getting onto a plane or train to go attend fashion week at the moment but people who live in that city so soon, dot com use. Did this show the other day, and it sounds like all of the the press who live in Paris went to that show and so maybe. Maybe. That's what happened since. September two shows do indeed go on I. Guess in the worst case scenario if there's a second set of lockdowns and things become much more strict than not won't be possible, but. Now it looks like. You know localized. Shows than broadcast. Digitally and with this other element. Added to it for online engagement that seems to be. At least I think what's possible right now. And then and then who? It all comes back to that question at Whitby. Knocking around I'm in the initiative the rewiring session initiator. It, who a fashion shows full ultimately and I thought it was interesting. Reading what buys had to say about the digital, the digital experience and how? actually that was surprisingly positive. I flew a lot of what I read. People weren't the obviously people saying we. We love to touch the clothes we love to. You know it's important for us to be without teams in talk about things when we looking at when we're looking at south, but on the whole, they will pretty positives on I. Mean Product Prada definitely seems struck of very very major code with what's. Mutua did with the that collection on which she wished, she said she. Had time she for the first time I. Think almost it's a very first collection should actually had time to think about what she does why she does it? She wasn't wrapped up in meetings and dinners and Nola Fandango that goes on around fashion that she was lockdown down and she was in her garden. She learned how to do zoo when she didn't touch leaper gap, the election was. It was essential. It was some it was so much. The essence of Prada stripped back to a sort of blank slate, but but which is what you love, which is what you love about pride on its saga. Admit it was this incredible. Distillation of of of. Why you wear clothes. With this gloss of desire, not just set you. Wore them but you wanted to wear them. And I've been having the five different points of view making films. I see that you could imagine that as some kind of blueprints four. Inspiring people to. To look at what at what he's done on giving them unreal kind of. In a way But but those five offices so five is filmmakers, an office kind of like the audience five points of view in NHS. And private was always about different twin cities. Anyway, that was very smart you so. Jim You saw gems of opportunities so possibilities. I think you saw this did go on. If fashion lived light Biz for the next. Couple of years. WILL LOW Oxford. Come up with that next thing today, didn't they have been? A it sent that that news broke like an hour or so ago. Italy, it's showing promise, so let's see I. Think they're still more trials. Yeah, everyone says the vaccine. If and when one is discovered, it works that really unlocks everything literally. But with the economic impact that the industry's already felt this year is going to be very hard even with a vaccine everything bounce back immediately because. It feels like something going back to what we were talking about at the beginning. It just seems like such A. Such a momentous shift in perception. And the way all of us are thinking about life, and it kind of leads me to my last question for you, which is everyone's talking about this reset Annemarie set? The industries can have a reset personally. We're GONNA have a reset. The world's GONNA be different raw care buses inability to buy stuff. But do you think Oh God if only? If only the whole notion, that less is better and. In less is more, and you know Schumacher small is beautiful becomes everybody's Bible and ends. I have said at a dozen times over the whole. Zooming thing over the last few months, but I always I always imagined in a way that. That fashion would go back to being. An hop me if you've heard me, say this. Thousands of special would go back to being the dressmaker detailer macabre. And we saw the world village. Of the last few months really quickly. People really adjusted to live in. The village you know you walk to your shops. You will come you if you go to your PA, cu whatever you live in. It. Might be nine million other people. With an eight mile radius of you, but you'll in your village and. You know there was an there was a neo magazine's coverage of at the beginning when you was buckling under the under the strain of the virus, it was a wonderful outcome about sort of. made evil future him where. The Rice or imagined the sort of. New feudalism where. The was such a reset. That very fundamental human values reasserted themselves and the notion of needs became. A much more sort of Basic. Bosch available situation and I I don't know it'll be I. Talk about that like it's some kind of. Will be very odd some somebody like me to live light back, but. I am too much self-indulgence in ends on. In another Heidi type. But. I could see. I could I can see that kids can't a lot less about things that I could about. The other things are important to them. And I think you know. Things could certain things come naturally to each generation and the things that came naturally to made done seem particularly important to. To people, said other people, and the things that naturally them sink completely impenetrable today like what? Oh? Coming sat on. not just. Creature comforts main something different today I've had my living under British. Years I've had those I've had that. I've had I've lived. With the things that were me one things like my wellbeing, and in where I was going to sleep in a west to the stuff you now. It would be. I'm not saying unseemly, but it wouldn't be a good look me to go back to living I used to live in a squad that had no. Electricity several. You know, but you did you just did it just, didn't you? Didn't even you so I lived with? How people who? Fell costing single the ORCS. I was living with his sort of. People GonNA. Done Now? and. It didn't matter is young in your new any new? Things that are important on i. feel that happening now I feel I. Love the protests. I love the sense that. I, love the sense that this revolution. The air was so essential. You know it's critical. this this momentum. SA- change cannot. Be diverted cannot be still. And it must roll on and I think fashion has to be part of that and fashion. The fashion was confronted by the situation being confronted by this such should. To make things the way they were. Please make everything right. You know, please. Please, turn back to the way it was. It was good. It wasn't good fit people. It wasn't good for designers, wasn't it's retailers wasn't for anybody who is? Working in fashion, we have that we that's what the reset is a to make it good. Maybe. And You know you WANNA be part of the solution, not the problem. Is Three said in part of the solution on the program. That make any sense whatsoever it did. It did because It gets to this kind of wider question around. In what it all means in the end, thank you, Tim for chat. It's not the same as our old chats because got tonight. do them in person but I'm glad we got a chance to. The you know we could. We could. Do ketchups. You know doesn't have to be after we doesn't FBI after shows. Because presumably there'll be lots. They'll be things to talk about as. As the situation evolved signing it. Really is. It's so interesting that nobody knows you know. There is no there is no one person you can look to who can tell you with any confidence at that Shula, that this lab is going to happen next and I. Don't think there's ever been a moment where where the human race was so accurately riderless. You know we have no pilots. We have anthony FAUCI. We have from. You know people like that, but they don't know. and. They know more than the rest of us, but nobody's really listening to that. None of the leaders are listening to we. And? We listened to what we hear them saying is that yes, they know a lot but done. They contended. This is going to happen next enslaved action when we say what's going to happen in September. We can say what we would like to happen, but we can't say with any certainty that it's going to. Whereas last September, we say oh, on. September, Twentieth, going to be sitting at a center. Or Contemporary Twenty first. We're GONNA. Be at a regarding show whatever we can. Say that Something there's something kind of like about that. Is that here? Yeah? It's mine you that you are an animal. You know anti out we. The human race is actually we applaud the animal kingdom and We You're wearing inappropriate shirt We had lost touch with that that we are. We are part of the grand continue continuum as nature. and. Animals done. On September twentieth and doing some kind of mass migration somewhere in A. Program into the jeans but. No with we need to get in touch with all. Well, yeah! Let's let's do another one of these again soon. Tim, because it's your. And thank you for joining us. This is Enron founder and CEO CEO Business Incubator Buddy. We are pleased to have you with us for live to join us for more episodes and be a wife live next week and Thank you bye. If, you've enjoyed this episode. Don't forget to subscribe. Give us a rating, and you might be interested in joining the business of Fashions Global Membership Community Peo- professional are members receive exclusive deep dive analysis regular email briefings as well as unlimited access to our archive of over ten thousand articles, our new IPHONE APP learning materials from payoff education.

Tim Paris Joe Digitally Italy founder and CEO Paris Tim Blanks Jim You Milan Eddie meteorologists Saigon Ron Ahmed ZANU Europe ethel Mumbai Zana Gucci John Galliano
Tim Blanks on the Autumn 2019 Season | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

45:37 min | 1 year ago

Tim Blanks on the Autumn 2019 Season | Inside Fashion

"This episode of inside fashion is brought to you by Clarks Clark lead to shop now and pay later interest free at leading online retailers to add Clark to your store. Visit Clark dot com. Something's happening right now in fashion, Tim I've felt for while at the world is in kind of pre-revolutionary state. It's inevitable that whatever is happening in the world gets reflected in fashion comic our song show. It felt very much like voices screaming from the margins. It's no time to be polite. You have to screen now you count whisper anymore. Hi, this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion and this week on the Buick podcast. We look back at the fashion season. That was I talked to Tim blanks are editor large about saying farewell to Karl Lagerfeld at Chanel and Fendi where there were emotional Oman shes to one of the greatest fashion designers that ever was. We also discussed the explosive second collection from sleep man who moved to abortion while look at selene, and we talk about the cultural impact and fashions reflection on social issues that were being discussed in and around fashion week. So here's Tim blanks. Inside passion. Tim blanks. You just poured an entire well. He's an Espresso shot into the glass, a double Espresso shot into a glass of water cold water. Why did you do that? It's my make Colo. Anyway, I guess you needed after the fashion month gone by all that coffee. You set it. I was the season. It was it was it consolidated everything we've been saying about fashion for the last little while always lead to Paris. But this is curious situation there that the fish of the days at nine thirty in the morning. The law shows at nine thirty at night. In on a on a few days felt like it was nice city at night, anyway, which which makes a very very long days quite tiring. Because it feels that there is so much more in Paris than look fresh as a daisy. Thank you. That's one does modern science. My homemaker cola. You know, we we had quite a. Quite a season. There was a lot that happened off the runways as well with the passing of Karl Lagerfeld. The regular racism scandals that were you know, erupting in different places. But let's start with the shows and talk about some of these kind of deeper issues bit later, I missed the comedy also show 'cause I had to record a podcast 'cause I'm so dedicated to our podcast, but it was your top show of the season. Talk to me about mass show. You know, that you said it was devastating. I thought it was I thought it was overwhelming. I thought that. Raica will right Kawakubo used to regularly nail the site guys. I guess you'd call it. And I feel that I feel that her interests kind of went elsewhere when she's to that stretch of shows where she was was she wasn't really doing close to as she had other things on mind. And then she reengaged with that process. According to an interview I read with ho Susannah Frankel last season and the season was back that will not back Ford to. A presentation that just seemed to really put us right where we are right now under the under the luring cloud of climate change and in a world of increasing conflict in division. And she did it by I felt she did it with with by using these sort of emblems of very high society of their very civilized society. You know, the dress codes of of the icing centuries in Pontiac as in and and we'll list sort of Lasorda of silhouette ideas, you associate with with court dress almost and then using these incredible industrial fabric site will rub. Oh, and and play with her and so on but making these beautiful beautiful shape set look like to me like that being drowned in an oil spill and then. The was the whole staging of the show is much more car graph than a shows. Usually are there was a big open space a squarespace actually of that narrow runway that so small, and usually I mean for years everybody was on the same level, and this was very tightly ID and very very enclosed at felt like a, you know, one of those courts at the minds used to play kinda pro baseball with the heads of their enemies, it felt really closed in like that really intense. The music was incredibly intense by a young DJ coupon Mahamne who was spotted at the Ricco and show earlier in the week with a three foot high mohawk, and he's Pomme hammers pot of a group of very young London. As old very young British people who. One of whom salvia did the makeup did the processing makeup on the recurring show. And they really pushing boundaries pushing limits on what's possible with the human form, and and so on really define altered occc, and and every way, and I feel just come to got song show absorbed some of that energy. It felt very. But didn't feel transgressive, but it felt it felt very much like voices screaming from the modules. And it was it was just so the there was one moment where this this after this very very intense music to the intense kind of. 'electronic music in the children's choir singing old things brightened beautiful. This weirdly angelic incongruous moment that ended in a massive explosion on the soundtrack that felt to me the quintessential moment of the Shah. So what does it take? I mean, I think our listeners out there probably wondering like when when you're thinking about the top show of the season. What does that entail encompass for me? And then this is a weird. This is this is why I can always be very positive about the primacy of the fashion show because much as much as much as it sounds a Lisa's irritating to say you had to be that. It was an experience. It was a Tuchel sound vision and sound vision and motion. And I think what I loved about. It is that being a natural apocalypse cyst, myself the. Tone of it was so, you know, you know, you haven't Brian mental scientists sank we can't pussyfoot around anymore. We have twelve years twenty years. Whatever people are saying, we cannot wait a second longer. It's no time to be polite. You have to screen now you count whisper anymore, and I felt that show just screamed, and it just completely it screened it made it it made its presence felt through all the noise around us. It just bang cut through everything up through everything. Yeah. And I think it's amazing that here is Ray Kaba Kuba a Japanese designer in his seventies with the incredible career that she's had redefining redefining all sorts of abstract notions in all sorts of. Things to do with clothing or whatever. And then just bang. She makes this massive social statement. Yeah. I was Jeff I walked away from that understanding when you look around you look around Conde got song shows, and there's often people sitting they crying, and you're always a bit dry eyed and the show I I felt I felt it in me when I left it was still in me when I Lynn, you did shed a tear at the end of the Chanel show, and I wasn't at the Fendi show in Milan because I missed Milan this season. But we obviously can't talk about the season without addressing you know, what it was like to have a fashion season without car. Lagerfeld's physical presence. Even though his designs were present talked me about the way, you think both Fendi and Chanel kind of handled and and communicated the way the houses were feeling in the wake of his death will the irony was that they will both such vital shows. Extremely. On form. There was not from moment. The sense of. Allergy or that you might expect all working on them until Yary. And maybe that's not strictly true. I think maybe there was a sense. They they had for me. There has been a sense in his work for Weill of him focusing on things he's loved and revisiting things. He's lab not not that. I think he would ever admit that. But sort of had that feeling. Fendi was a it was a beautiful show. And his presence was quite strong in that. There were elements of his dress incorporated into the clothing. Now. The the big the big thing, of course was set. I mean, Michelle Goldberg whose his musical collaborate ahead. Ref- reconfigured the Fendi soundtrack. So it was caused favorite song zeros and and ended with heroes David Bowie, which apparently is his was his favorite song. Which actually surprised me? I don't know why imagined it would be something by Marla or what is something. More more classical. Babs. But the the the soundtrack profanity was these the mix of songs was was quite buoyant wasn't remotely said am and then for Chanel Michelle used Philip clause, which of course, is soaring, and spiritual and kind of celestial and then ending in heroes again. And at the end of the Fendi show that were we're lot of tears backstage to a lot of tears. I'm I had a lovely conversation with Sylvia, and it was to see how much he was just ingrained in people's lives at Fendi there for six it's it's basically, it's your beloved grandfather dying, you know, and and and the patriarch and also at talion emotional. That was a joke about how you know front. Power Sloan w will be crying the end of the shown Paris for the French, the French don't cry. But but and then obviously, the Chanel show was huge. I mean, it was another great big rebuilding. An alpine village in inside the Grand Palais with smoke coming from the chimneys of the shallow in the snow deepen Crispin even on the ground. Not that. We'd synthetics now either it was quite nice fakes now. And then stick to your shoes. It didn't make me feel sort of asthmatic. Exactly. I'm and then at the end, and then again, a very superstrong show, which reminded me of those wonderful shows in the eighties celebrated the sort of bigness of Chanel, and the and the super model unless of Chanel, and the girls cannot heroes was playing in everybody stood up and just clapped and clapped. And Clint and waited and wasted. An is almost like they were waiting for him. It was like we haven't was craning their neck, and this is what we stayed in the area fresh leave. Yeah, they just stood in Clapton Clapton Klatt, and I found that. With heroes. I could almost cry. Now thinking about it. I found that very very emotional because that was probably the first time it really hit me because we didn't always see him at Fandy. I mean he'd come out in the distance. We didn't always talked to Mike was but we always talked to him after Chanel. That's it really hit me that we won't be going back stage to talk to him ever again. I'll never have compensation two hundred and fifty one with Kellogg the same way. Yeah. I think I realized in that moment that that you know, we'd had that opportunity, and it was was never going to happen again. And I was starting to think back to our last conversation with him. And we we didn't get to talk to him in January because he didn't come to the show. So it was way back in October. At the Lachapelle show. So yeah, that was that was really sad. I think also the finalists of that at the end of the Chanel show the final because that was it. You know, the this a it's there's no way that he's going to rise on the seventh day emerge from the shallow dole rolled back. The stone on the shell adore. The the finality of makes you reflect on your own finality. And I think you could see for you could see for a lot of people being in the industry for a long time that that was. You know, suddenly, the permanent said that that that we feel the permanent depend minutes that we feel we thrive on in some weird way. Suddenly. Selected the same as the lives in every other part of the world. It's it's it's an illusion. It's interesting because for people who've been in the industry for really long time. I guess that might be the reaction. I saw some commentary on social media from a much younger generation who said that we were looking at it from a different vantage point, which is this is the beginning of the end of that generation, and it's making room for a new establishment like a new group of people to to kind of step in their shoes. I know what you're talking about. And the day that that person steps in cut Lago fill chanels day. I climbed onto my iceberg drift that into the ocean unable to be seen again. Okay. It was also this season of borsch wa and we saw this, you know, throughout the season. Probably most was it really the season of the bourgeoisie. It wasn't just the season. Everybody talked about the idea because it's not exactly like you'd think people talked about it. Because had he slim on put it on the run became a topic. And then everyone said, oh, it's the season. Joie everyone is Suming that that let what he does what he does. Press it presages a shift in sensibility in fashion as as it has in the past. It did seem like several other shows I think Dan is being exploring this idea Balenciaga for awhile. The he's talked about the bourgeoisie. A lot. I thought the collection was a fabulous collection. And. You could say that what Zhong an end Judas to two of being joing at ABC is a Bush wa from day one. Now, celebrating a certain kind of French dress that that is embodies that sort of you know, that that ethos. I'm Eddie Sluman. Did it did it? I didn't see the show, but did it with enormous scale and conviction and and a single dime. Exactly. As he does. There was no deviation. There was no theme in variation. It was you know, hitting the point home over and over again with a certain look, but as someone pointed out to me, it was less about the whole look was more about the bags and the outerwear. And that's what some people say is really going to sell. What do you think? I will isn't that. What people always say, no. I don't think they necessarily talk about outer where all the time bags, of course, was saline before a clothing business. Amani one thing people voice it about George Romani as the scale of that. It's unique in the scale of that businesses, basically, everything not not accessories wasn't ceiling. Liz, very accessories. Every business B's era was definitely an accessory is focused business. But I think what people were talking about was taking the model from salary where outerwear was a big driver of the businesses. Well. It just so happens that this outerwear is was more in a a different different aesthetic than that kind of rocker chic look that he became known as Lawrence sing. Interesting speculative moment because obviously a comment we heard from a lot of people was that. Oh, I wonder have to buy the close was my mother has Molineaux cub in the closet now that was old women saying that because obviously younger women would have wouldn't necessarily have mothers who will wearing let's that style of saving clothing from the original. I'm sailing moment. I just wanted. That was interesting for me that that would that look novel too young two young women. It looked a definitely look familiar to older women would the novelty appeal to the two young women and with the familiarity appeal to older women, it's kind of an interesting. Is I don't even think it was about the novelty of the look I think it was about catching everyone by surprise. So by doing his Holte of a look from Eddie's Lomax glee by by by doing his first collection very much in the vein of his his collections at Seiler on everyone. You know responded quite. Vehemently in in either very positive or negative ways reacting to this. You know, continuation of that aesthetic and just as everyone thought that that's the direction he was gonna take selene. He's act and that created even more of a reaction this time so two seasons in a row, arguably he has the most talked about show of the season as it was before. Exactly, it's interesting. He's zagged that gave Antony Bek vaccarello the chance to zig into the best center on collisions done. So in a funny way it that now that Eddie Sluman has clarified his saline so graphically vaccarello has clarified his center all with equal with equal kind of clarity with equal unequally graphic the assertion was that the reason he did his first selene collection the way. He did was to stake his claim to that low that look before moving on to his new selene. Look what I think Anthony moved on moved moved his Santa roll into bed Carrillo land, very very efficiently with that show Santa land. What am I saying? It was his samurai. It was a central collection. But with a definite vaccarello shirt touch. Other other collections. Got a lot of interests. This season were Jonathan Anderson's collections. Both for his own label and for low Ave in both of those shows made it into our top ten of the season. What do you think is happening with Jonathan like why he seems to be hitting? His stride. You know, he's a very rarely. I think did he nail both collections in the same season. It always felt like to me that there was a bit of overlap there a bit blurry. But he seems to be getting more and more clarity about what J W Anderson is about what low EVA's about will. You agree your time. Yeah. I definitely because both those both collections had very distinct voices. And and it's been it's been a wonderful watching him very perversely reinterpreting the way in the light of the ballet, Eric's, not not Madrid hood bourgeois. Like black leather, blah, blah, blah. But the gypsy girls on the beach visa gonna be. Yeah. With them a little bit of mood elevating under their wings. And he's done that for a while this sort of our TIs mental not hippy chic, but not a focus on the Croft, which he loves because he you know, that's his obsession as Croft. And this time I felt Madrid more in the collection black and white some the lace the there was a sort of slightly lush severity kind of Catholic. I guess I I don't I don't know enough about Spanish ours is to say this Velasco's, quite whatever. But that lasts look with a with the lace in the in a jacket in the the black jacket in the black skirt was so beautiful. And and you could see that look. Fin closing a collection which led into way, he's going to take away next. And it seems like he always seems like he's having a lot of fun with what he does. I think his men shows his NS woman shows for both both labels. There's always there's always a kind of perverse playfulness in them. But I guess he's getting more serious, and he's he's gone up here. She's now experienced designer with more than a decade of experience behind him. He's working in a fairly big luxury goods house at a big luxury goods group. So like he can't just be pl- any, but nobody did he did bring both both lead did bring those businesses along with that sort of with that interest in things that will you quite unique to him again only. And so I think it's wonderful to see. To see it coming to fruition in both places so effectively, but also, but also was such promise for the future. Yeah. For me. It seemed like everything was a lot more finished and polished now it's almost like he's you know, when you see a designer continual refining. What payday when they just get it to that certain point where it's like it all works. And apparently, it's working from business down point to so many bits and pieces this shoes bags and jewelry and things that look really desirable. You can see people desiring them in the audience. And I guess one surprise of the season was a standout show from Victoria Beckham. Who's kind of never made it into our top shows of the season. What did what do you think? Clicked for her the season. It was it was just so smart, and it was so edited in it was so coherent. And and you know, it's it has been so funny since Phoebe Phoebe filer left saline. That that that vacuum. Everyone's jockeying if where would win where with Safiya Bill with Sophy woman, go to to fill that void in her heart in a closet and Victoria Beckham was always. Put forward as somebody. Who was you know, we was jockeying for that for that role on. I think. If you insofar as you wanna make comparisons, which can be been invidious. I think she that. This is the closest she's ever God. But it was collection. Just was what I liked about. It was it was very straightforward. But it wasn't boring. You know, it was it each look was very. Direct and there wasn't any fold and fencing. But it wasn't it was minimal. But it wasn't boring. You know, that that old helmet Lang holy grail that you could make clothes that will minimal but would sensual and and I catch, and I think that Victoria Beckham hip bet. Sweet spot. Yeah. I bumped into her and her new CEO Palo riven, they're trained back from Paris. And they were were four of them sitting there, and they were they were seeming, very buoyant. I think they had a really good sale season in Paris too. So yeah, let's see the other person looking to take Phoebe crown was a new designer at protec- Benneteau, Daniel Lee. How did that go for you? I was considering how long we've been waiting for that collection. I was surprised at how it wasn't. What do I guess it wasn't what I was expecting after all that time and speculation. And anticipation, I thought it was. You know, something about Thomas Mayes close considering especially considering that Bettega was a business built on a billion dollars worth of bags. And I think the last time I looked more than ninety maybe more than ninety five percent of the revenue came from leather goods think has closed the right. Daniel Lee is going to be on how those bags do. No. Yes. Yes. Because the close as I as I said when I wrote about the the clothes were would very matrix easy to me. There was a lot of leather for sure. But I. I wouldn't I'm not I'm not saying that he was he was going to follow on from Thomas. He was going to take the reins of what Thomas minded, but some of those clothes was so strange in so haunting and and timeless that this collection was very much a bang in disruption. Right. There was a definite disruption. Right. Whether it works or makes me. Yeah. I mean, you you could see on Instagram. You could see the people who we were loving it. And you ain't getting that's not the Bettega vantage customer, so maybe that kind of works. Maybe that does kinda work for. I think I got the feeling carrying was kind of hoping for a our Sandra Kaley type disruption there, which is, you know, the Thomas Meyer template had been in place since basically the beginning of the kind of rejuvenation or renovation of vo-tech Manitoba. And you know, after I think it was sixteen or seventeen years. You know, don't quote me. Me on it. Because I can't remember exactly the number of years was more than fifteen years at the helm. They were looking for some kind of change. You know, the business has been shrinking. I think it shrunk by three point six percent last year. So they're looking for someone to. Well, it's an interesting point. But good she got the. Disruption through beauty and potatoes seems to be going to the disruption through brutalism. Okay. I did get the feeling though, Tim that this season as you mentioned early on that a feels like fashion month is increasingly consolidating in Paris. You know with we used to do this when we used to do this conversation. We used to cover each city and talk about each city, but that didn't feel like the right way to structure the conversation this Tom, and I guess Paris has always been the most important fashion me. But one person I spoke to said to me this season that they think fashion is moving into a situation kind of like the technology world where it's winner take all and just in the way that, you know, Google controls everything around search and Amazon controls everything around e commerce. You know, the biggest player. This person said to me Paris is increasingly playing that role. And it's got the Olympics coming up slow. So, but why do you think that's happening because I think it set up to happen a Paris's city with fashion, the the showing in the selling fashion looks most efficiently. Why have no I have no idea, I guess because it's actually being it's actually being where a lot of people have always gone to do their business for a long time and more and more people have been going there because everybody's asking the question where where is the best place for me to show? Where is the best place for me to sell and Paris has the best place to show, but was as you get the biggest audience most global audience, and obviously Paris is increasingly the best place to sell as well for the same reason. And what I what I'm hearing is that more and more people. Even if they choose to show their collections. Elsewhere, they feel like they have to sell their collection in Paris. I heard that too. But I might have voted for me. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be interesting to see how fashioned month evolves. It I have always said from the time. I started covering fashion in the midst of. The game of thrones was. I the shows in Paris will always the best always events production values, always the best. Even if it was a small show. Everything was it was that was so put together you could go to new designer, and you'd get a bigger you get you get a better notion of what they were about than if that sang designer showed anywhere else. This is a support. The city is geared towards fashion jug 'cause always you get into a taxi cab in the us. You say we are going the tactic the cabdriver knows what show you're going to. I mean that is a little bit of urban myth. But. Know, the names of the designers the understand that fashion is big business. And when in town for the shows, and you see like Eddie cement, building, his huge big construction here on Santa Rosa, building a big construction there and something else going on somewhere else in the cook era. You see the stuff being trucked into Louis Vuitton. You know, this whole city is energized, by fashion in a way that no other city is. So it's that's the city where you feel of fashionable than any anywhere else. So if I was a designer that's where I'd go one other topic. I wanted to address is something that didn't happen at necessarily linked to fashion week. But. Kind of became one of the dominant themes of the season, which is the repeated mistakes that brands are making around, you know, what many people to be perceived to be as kind of racist products or racist imagery or racist advertising? So of course, back in the autumn. We had the issue around. Dole Chang a ban on and. Ill advised campaign for our show that they wanted to do in China. And then you the rants by stuff. No-go Bonna on Instagram saying completely inappropriate racist things about Chinese people in the Chinese fashion industry. But then we had the issue with Prada, and their, you know, block face keychain. We had the issue with Gucci and the black-faced balaclava, and then we had burglary and the news that appeared on the runway and not necessarily all of these things were happening actually on the runway, but something's something's happening right now in fashion, Tim, and I, you know, given your. Long perspective on the industry, and you know, for over three decades of going to fashion week and seeing this industry developed. I'm really curious as to why you think this is happening now. I suppose every everybody everybody looking at what's going on in the world traces back to the the fact that Donald Trump in the White House has created a very divisive a very divisive atmosphere in the world. He's dividing not just countries but communities, and and I think that. I felt for awhile at that the world is in kind of pre-revolutionary state. I feel that what's been happening with social media. What's been happening with things like Facebook, people are suddenly not suddenly, but they're coming to grips with the fact that they've they've actually surrended an awful lot of. Freedom. And what does it mean to be free and? I think this is sort of now never. Moods. I talked about before gripping activists around the world for all the causes are active in and racism is such an enduring toxin in. In society on every everywhere everywhere in the world every every every country in the world has as a racist racist issues. I think. Fashioning? You could argue that we're in some ways, we all have those bio sees these unconscious bias sees which are now surfacing, but was human beings of tribal tribal animals, but I think that what's different now is that there was a there was an urgency to address the issues. Fashions always being on the fashioned the glass of fashion, the mirror of fashion. It's inevitable that whatever is happening. The wheel gets reflective in fashion and the antidote to to. A lot of the issues that that are bringing us down as education, and the just hasn't really been any concerted effort to educate also fashion hasn't been an an instinctively diverse business because the great fashion houses have. Never embraced diversity as a policy. Italy's it when when you talk to a talion, I mean, obviously now they're they're really keen to. Redress that imbalance. But they say, you know, we we've it's never affectionate house in Italy is just what it is. We have interests use when your customer base is a global customer base. When people when China has become the largest fashion market in the world when you are seating rappers and. You know, people from the urban and hip hop community in your front row because they helped to sell clothes. How can how can you? How can you hold your hands up and claim ignorance and say we need to be educated in the hands up and saying we would rent them when with we're gonna do out very best not to be ignored again, we going to initiate educational programs that versity programs. We're gonna have diversity councils. We're going to set up scholarships old around the world. So that people have been trained in all the different communities, and we'll be bringing all this awareness into out business. You know, that that that we do not want these things to happen again that education is the solution. And but was education will breed will breathe up a an an understanding and acceptance of of points of view that a that aren't yours. You don't want some people outside fashion asked me. They said we could understand how it happened once. And so for example, when the leaving the Dolecek in Gabon a- scandal aside because I think that's a separate issue in that was just. Absolutely. Yeah. Just unacceptable after the product keychain issue happened and not became a global story before the new year. You wouldn't you think they asked me, wouldn't you think that brands would double down and go. Wow, we need to be really remembered the when I think when the product when the product whatever they will, call the judge keys, the whatever that accessories was developed the good. She balaclava was already done already been out. I mean. I've been on the runway, but it had been marketed on the product as products for sale happens. So, you know, the the that that that that was a sort of red looking back at something rather than something that was happening in the moment. It was it was it was. Exhuming something that already happened the book renews highlighted for me how you'd have much. They're still how far they still is to go and how you can see education diversity within the creative community inside a house would hopefully hit off things like that. Because I still think is. This is early days early days for all of that for me to for times up for all of these activists consciousness raising efforts that it's not it's the issues is so ingrained, and and for such a long time culturally for you know, all of history, then not gonna hey presto, tomorrow morning. It's all it's all over and done. What this going to be the salsa Jinnah goes on probably forevermore? I mean, if if we have twelve years of twenty years left. This. This is going to go on the end because he's always going to be things that is always going to be things that slipped through that news, for example. You would think. Wow. This such a trigger. How the hell did it end up after especially after everything that had happened? But there's always going to be something like that that that nobody even thought about an and then how'd you keep people so alert so sensitive? So that is a that is a challenge. And and I think I think that that. That. Sensitivity. Has has to be on every level of society, it com conscious be fashion designers being. Being aware what the consequences aren't any sensitivity. I think it's also understanding right? So the I think the notion of black face is. It's a particularly toxic topic, especially in the US. But it's a toss something with a history of understanding or or discussion in other parts of the world. But when you're when you're when your product or your Gucci and your marketing to a global customer base, you have to have an understanding of these issues all around the world, but the it's such such a toxic issue. But when you look at something like black lives matter, and then you look at Paul manafort's sentence today today, and that absolutely ingrained one role for some one rule for the rest. That's the kind of thing that has to change to make to filter down through every other level of society, and fashion, obviously is is integrated into into society. And when you start changing, those kinds those glaring iniquities, which you just. Black kids still been gunned down in the street, and and white collar criminals a still getting on for the slap on the wrist. And and that's after all the conscious consciousness raising that has been going on in the media under the the current president and everything we're going through here with Brexit. You know, the salsa Jimmy examining won't makes the country. What it is. But the things that have to change our actually massive, and that's not going to happen overnight. I just I always I always find it. So interesting how fashion is a mirror and a reflection of these issues that are happening in the world. And so everyone who thinks that fashion week is a. A superficial frivolous indulgence while for me. I think and for you, Tim, it's like a really great way to make sense of what's happening just a reflection as a projection as well as it can't be. It's used cautiously in that way. So you see fashions. Fashions. Turmoil. Over over an issue that the issues that we've seen recently reflects, what's happening everywhere else. But then also projects away Ford, which is these educational initiatives set that the putting in place house is putting in place. Okay. Well on that slightly more serious note. Thank you. For your thoughts on autumn winter twenty nine thousand nine hundred I'm Imran Ahmed, founder and CEO of the business of fashion here with Tim blanks. Our editor at large we are saying farewell for this season. And for this week on inside fashion. Please tune in next week or more from us. If you enjoyed this conversation, please leave us a review on your favorite podcasting platform share with your friends. We are proud to tell you be OS podcasts have now received over two million downloads all around the world. So clearly, you are enjoying these conversations. Give us your feedback. Tell us what you want here about. We are here to vote the issues that you want to hear so with that little plug. I am signing off. Thank you. Thank you. 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Paris Tim blanks founder and CEO Karl Lagerfeld Imran Ahmed Chanel Ford us Gucci Eddie Sluman editor Dole Chang Fendi China Victoria Beckham Clarks Clark Daniel Lee
Tim Blanks and Imran Amed on the Life and Work of Karl Lagerfeld | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

39:53 min | 1 year ago

Tim Blanks and Imran Amed on the Life and Work of Karl Lagerfeld | Inside Fashion

"Uh-huh. Was nobody also that breadth of culture with that sense of a life lived on every level cocoa and Carl. I mean, you could not write this to be a more perfect fashion story the way those two people changed everything and the industry DeVille division via succession plan. It strikes me as kind of like the Sarah Burton Alexander McQueen succession plan. There's no way you could possibly replace them. And I think they're savvy enough not to even try with Virginie incharge Chanel goes on. How do you think the industry will pay tribute to him almost stately because he is the emperor? And we will never see that kinda game. Hi, this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion today. We have a very special episode of the podcast as you may have heard car Lagerfeld's, the icon IQ and legendary fashion designer. Died in Paris at the age of eighty five and who better to talk to about the life and work of Karl Lagerfeld than Tim planks who as I understand his interviewed Karl Lagerfeld more than two hundred fifty times on this special episode of the podcast. I talked to him about all of the contributions that call has made to fashion during his life, and what Chanel and Fendi and fashion will be like without call. So here's a special episode of the podcast on the life and work of Karl Lagerfeld. Well, Hello, Tim. This is a special edition of the podcast. Neither you nor. I were planning to be sitting here today having this conversation. But we I guess we all knew that one day this day would come, and, you know, Karl Lagerfeld has died, and I just wondered, you know, you've known are you new call for thirty at least thirty at least thirty isn't a professional capacity. But nevertheless of that stretch of time we sat down and talked. I worked out at least two hundred and fifty times mazing, and that's. A lot of talk and. Insight. It just it's inevitable that you acquire some sense of an individual when you when you spending that much time talking to them about everything because you could talk to call about everything you could you could talk about whatever the latest pop band was you could talk to him about anew book and movie, you could talk to them about an old movie, you could talk from about eighteenth century canapes. You could I mean, he I think he called himself a one man Google at one point. And and way before there was he said, he had a Google mind. Yeah. I mean, prodigious and. Enthusiastic and keen to communicate the enthusiasm. So until the very end to. I mean, the last time I mean, we were very lucky you, and I we got to sit down with him so often at the end of his shows after Chanel, and he would, you know, read be offered into this little private room that they create for him, and he'd spend those like ten or fifteen minutes with us just chatting and gossiping and. But when when did you first to remember the first time, you might call? I it would have been. I mean, just because I've been rising the piece of the peace of be oh f- about about his his passing and thinking about how log Phil ended my life. Well, if I really boil it down. I mean, it was he was so weirdly omnipresence in my seventies might not my obviously the seventies in my life. But the nineteen seventies. Because he was it. It was he was part of a world that was so gorgeous to look into from me outside. You know, it was the world that I guess culminated with fifty four but before that Antonio Lopez, and Tony does girls and people like Tina Chow, and and the wool hall crowd. And the way that everything society was just this mass this pulsing massive fabulous city that was that was so enticing for. Country bumpkin looking at it from the outside. So when I actually met him I had such a kind of incredible incredibly vivid impression of him. You know, he looked so hot in those helmet udon photos in that black one piece bathing suit on and the swimming lappy scene and Paris or lying and Brandon center bay, and he with the very very black beard, and the actually wasn't very very handsome. And he looked like he just look at the kind of person who who was capable of episode anything which was probably an acid in those times later on. I got the feeling that actually he probably didn't really do any of the things you imagine. It'd be doing. But he was very good at conveying the impression that he had done. It all all had done it and tied it. But when I first met him, obviously, I felt. He was kind of intimidating because he felt like somebody who'd been everywhere and done everything and everyone and was bringing this mass of knowledge to fashion that nobody else had. I mean, there was nobody else would that breads? There was nobody else that breadth of culture that that sense of of a life lived on every level. And to be able to bring that into into his work in fashion. I mean, my meetings fist meetings with him coincided with the beginnings of the supermodel thing. So that was the increase, and he was so instrumental in making those women into superstars Janika, Sochea Milan and held in Paris. And those shows were just so mazing I was like being in the middle of a Busby. Berkeley production, and there was such access and such openness. And and I mean, a funny thing just talking about this before, but he called me Canada because you know, it was doing fashion file for the CBC and Canada, and I guess. He didn't bother individualizing designers. Journalists faceless massive I've listened to everybody else's questions and really loaded them completely moronic. But he would have this massive people streaming through, you know, saying that really your Hickel or analyst goofy stuff that people ask. And so he call me Canada for long time, which was okay, I guess, but we had like different. We had a report. I mean, I kind of magin that you're sitting in front where you sitting down with somebody hundreds and hundreds of times and not thinking at least I recognize this person he loved to Tim. He had always when we hired you. He pulled me aside one day. And he said you you hired the best one. Oh, that's sweet. You never told me that I know. And he. Curling? He really respected you, and he was he was. He he I think YouTube both shared this breath of culture, so any cultural reference that he made you it'd be one of those rare people that understood it that the funny thing when you know, there was one time I wrote about this as well when I went to talk to him, and we were wearing exactly outset even that even the embroidery on the shirt collar was what was it? It was Matsuda from Japan, and it was fabulous clothing Fatman. And so this was in the days when he was a larger he was he was he was chunky. And and I was chunky when he lost weight. He poked me in the stomach and just look at me. And and say if I can do it you can't and low I did for one brief shining moment. But. Interesting. The report that you could have with him because I think that was that was a surprise to me, I suppose that. Because he was such a figurehead, but he was also. He could also I wouldn't say sweet. But he he was definitely a one on one kind of guy. I think I found it was charming. And I think you know, he had he's one of those individuals in the fashion industry can create these like people with these larger than life personas that seem very intimidating and. Inaccessible, but when you interact with him up close in kind of more intimate situation. He, you know, he was he was sweet, and he would tell jokes, and he would he would laugh, and he'd whisper things and tear year, and he giggle, and he was just he was a love list of things into your ear. I don't think he have. We would finish our interviews. He'd always. Won't tell you what he said to me once about you. I told you the nice thing he said, he's attempts. Can't wait to tell him. No, you wasn't lying. Yeah. He was. He was just he was he was really fun. He was a bit miss. You know, what it was? He was mischievous. He had this like he linked to poke a little bit of. Yeah. Yeah. And then sometimes it wasn't a ways, you know? I mean, he'd say things way you felt you needed to kind of protect him in a way from himself. Yeah. Yeah. Especially more and more as time went on. But you know. I one thing that impressed me considering what he'd lived through on considering how successfully being from so early. I mean from basically is late teenage onwards, he was successful. And he'd experienced all the the highs and lows of the fashion history of the is the shift from a ready-to-wear and then this democratizing of luxury luxury which he was enormously response. I mean, he I think people people know that he was the one who created the template for the international global luxury brand. But he was also the first designer to a collaboration with H announ, and he kind of. Made it okay for everyone else to do it. So there was the luxury side of it. But he was always this kind of very populist kind of man of the he wanted to reach as many people as possible. So he would do everything. So while he sat at the luxury brand level. You know, he knew that it was about reaching masses and masses. You know that historical perspective he had where he would look at what had happened in society. Not just in the previous twenty as in the previous two hundred years, and he was so fascinated by shifts the shifts and sensibility that that well, created trends and dress or thinking food or whatever he was very. Aware in this peculiar kind of timeless wasn't really of the moments. We always used to say that that you never wanna be in fashion because that means you can be out of fashion. So he I would say that. He. Chatting away, like we're best friends, but. Was this observation that you could make with the intimate connection of longtime? He seemed to be very for longtime. He seemed to be very. Deliberately dismissive of. Human interactions. You know, he seemed to be to keep himself almost on libertine level. You know that that he could be very philosophical about things. Not particularly not particularly human. Then at the same time you'd see him with young. Well, that's what I was to say right there. I was just going to say that then then adult late, adult, onset, compassion, and. And empathy with Hudson chronic the little boy, the son of grad chronic model who was his mail news on. Called it a book about about. Brad, which was basically trying to position him as a new James Dean. I mean, he was incredibly dedicated to the people who are in his circle, and they were dedicated to him the loyal like a fat. But that was his family. Yeah. And and then it wasn't just Hudson. And, you know, not not so much the sunny never had the grandson never had the great grandson had maybe. But then shoe pit the cat. Yeah. Who he said he would marry if he could which is fascinating notion. You know, it's like Niro, married illegal married. His horse. Call would have married his cat. If he could have as if he'd been emperor of all he said what he was emperor of all these vade. That was kind of an intriguing he found sort of sentiment. And it was interesting because that made him so human we had been so such a conic concisely distant figure, and suddenly he was talking about Hudson shoe pet. Yeah. Like going home. It's interesting because I heard something very similar Bridgewater money that he would rather have dinner with his cats, then go out to some swanky fashioned thing. Now, I understand that completely. I love sitting down with Stella any night. Tim's dogs case. But you know. It's funny that these lions and winter finding that humanity which is basically what the lion in winter that play was all about. Yeah. So obviously, this has implications for Chanel and for Fendi let's start with you know, they've appointed. I think many people were expecting via. I mean, some people thought hideously he was going to take over, but basically longtime they basically quashed that rumor right away. But division via succession plan. It's logic. It strikes me as kind of like the Sarah Burton Alexander McQueen succession plan. He anointed her. Yeah. She's been on stage with him. So what do you think that what do you think that kind of means for Chanel going for, you know, it's a massive commitment to continuity? And then and then we sit in fashion bubbled, and we assume. The entire world knows who fell is. I mean, admittedly, this the news coverage today has been absolutely. I mean, I do think if there's a single figure in fashion fashion apart from Anna winter, probably car Lagerfeld is the only one that everyone knows, you know, we think this, and then we sit down and talk to people, but it's like the ope the opening segment on like global. It's it's going to be on the front pages of the newspaper. It's it's media company sent an alert out about Carl today on news. But I still say Shenagal is bigger than Carl Chanel is the umbrella store the umbrella that under which he lived and worked. Sure, and I think that. With Virginie incharge Chanel goes on as as as the thing that more people know than knowing what calls contribution my debate. It's like I said fashion is above and what's visually. Like, I I've she's exactly very good analogy when you mentioned, Sarah. Yeah. With McQueen she's that very quiet kind of backroom Beckham. Who you get the feeling made it all happen? Yeah. You know, he needed we've been with him, and you can see the translation he needed between his quick fire thinking and create a process and the reality of of of the delivery of the product, you know, between his thought and the actual deed. And she was the facilitator, but I think for such a long time that she becomes the what's the word is a word manual insist or something we you are the person who she's a medium translates the thoughts into reality. And I think that she's been doing that for so long that she's probably she's colada Lagerfeld. The. So what felt went when McLean was also known for these huge spectacles and shows and this like incredible imagination. Just like Carl did at Chanel. So do think. And now McQueen has their none of that spectacle is the energy the DNA the kind of codes of McQueen are still she's very faithful to them. Sarah burton. Do you think that we're likely to see no more big shows? Amazing McQueen shows. No, that'd be great. Have they haven't they've never done that the big production, and the they wove like fifteen thousand concerts. I mean, the spectacle is more condensed. Yeah. Human. Yeah. It's on a human scale. But do remember that profundity who's guy who's the head of image or stage, those things he's obviously still there? I mean, it's a well oiled machine and everybody knows what needs doing. I mean, it's going gonna be it's going to be this going to be a massive massive whole list, simply because he was such a galvanic personality, and you use to seeing him, you know, that how you just wonder how could you? There's no way you could possibly replace them. And I think. That this enough not to even try that to to emphasize the continuity that his presence will prevail with the team that made it possible to do what he did because you can't really think of any other individual who represented Chanel. Observe cloak apart from cocoa. So he said familiarly CoCo was part of their lives. Exactly. Yeah. Cocoa. And I mean, you you could not make you could not write this to be a more perfect story. I'm will perfect fashioned story. The way those two people changed everything in the industry they and to be such visually icon creatures. I mean, he made himself into a cartoon deliberately that was his that was his acknowledgement of. Seles of modern celebrity. He was just insanely perceptive. I mean, I always wondered I it was funny always city you said he dreamed everything and used the kind of spring out a bit and do a whole collection will be fully formed from one dream. And and you head always imagine. What that looked like did he have nightshirt onto the Diddy have a wee Willie Winky kind of candle jumping out of bed kind of just like one hundred looks a flash yet. He told me that to he in the middle of night. Always. Yeah. We'll ways he said he dreamed everything. And then he'd say next time he didn't dream anything. But keep us guessing. I heard the most interesting story inevitably. There was Matt on speculation about somebody like him because as public. He was nobody really knew too much about him. Maybe his driver. Yeah. I. I heard this is very interesting that because you know, when you have a sort of citizen Kane like figure like he is like was you look for the Rosebud, and obviously has won his life story is so extrordinary. I mean, his mother saying that his nose was so big he should hang curtains and his nostrils. I mean, thanks mom. It's a cell phone. But I heard that he had a room in his house where which reconstructed the bedroom. He slipped when he was a child, and I don't know if that's true. But in that sort of Rosebud way, it kind of makes incredible sense that his attachment to his childhood, which he would talk about every now and again in. In sometimes dispatching, but and other times other times, you could feel and trying to winkle at the truths of his of his childhood was quite fascinating. You know, this that sort of protean intelligence at protein creativity. One of where it comes from everybody does because wondering if you can create a template from it, obviously for the future. Everybody's going to be like the new call this. His log fell blah, blah, blah is amant hospital. It's impossible that isn't gonna happen. I mean, the culture that produced him just doesn't exist anymore. So everyone's been talking about Chanel today. But kind of lost in the mix is what his passing means for Fendi. I think he was a designer there for more than half a century. Yeah. If you can believe that. Yeah. What what do you think they're thinking Fendi today? I feel. To me it felt like he hadn't been well for quite a long time. I'm just. Observing him as you said when we would talk to him backstage it felt he did feel. He felt fragile to me for quite a while. And I would imagine contingencies at being in place. I think that Silvia Fendi is one of the most remarkable people in fashion and. I can't imagine that. That going to be left time dry anyway, Fendi fends animal. From chanel. And I think that. Again, she liked visionary. She was almost raised by call. Yeah. I mean from the time she he's been part of your life since she was a little girl. I mean, she's she's most them, and I would I actually in a funny way look forward to what's going to happen there for to sing what's going to happen. They're almost more than I mean Chanel. I know what's going to happen Fendi. I think they'll be a kind of excitement. Yeah. I mean, it will very likely. I mean, it's a a role that someone's occupied for the better part of fifty years. So it may open up another designer shuffle. I hope not in my, you know, unless they decide that Sylvia will do it on her own. Well, you know today already. There was deluge of commentary Phoebe for Chanel. Oh was their offline was it was like, I don't think that's happened apart from you wanna scream too soon. There wasn't too soon. They announced Ginny. Yeah. Yeah. Well, seems chanels very smart because they had that announcement ready, and they just quashes all the speculation which would have been I think really disrespectful to Carl. Yeah. It's interesting watching social media deal with something like this because how many things fashion could be this discombobulating for the industry. They really isn't very much. Yeah. It's kind of like the whole fashion world stopped the access shifts for the day, you know, and. Your Instagram and minds around feed. Probably look the same everyone sharing their memories. And it's kind of nice, you you realized how many people in the industry he had a relationship with just by the pictures. Everyone posted. He was really genuinely kind of the center of ashen, everyone, all the designers, all the executives all the models. Like everybody had a fondness and affection and relationship with him. He was one of the polls. I think there are other polls. But he's definitely one of the big. Do you think Karl Lagerfeld was misunderstood? No. Because I think he I think he was very expert at messaging expert -tations I. I think he let people know exactly what he wanted them to know about himself. I mean, like, I said there was a lot of people don't know. And that's why he kept thing. Yeah. I I don't see how he could have been. I mean, the interesting thing is because he was so deep like Mariana trench deep. And he in recent times had maintained that persona. But you know, if you think about the people who work the fashion industry brilliantly, well, like some Donatella Sachi, it's all about having this Mosk, and you can be anything behind that mosque. And nobody's ever going to know what you like. And I think he was he was he was a brilliant player in that respect. Why do you think? It requires having a mask to succeed to create that kind of you wanna live you wanna have life and. You know? It's it's whoa. Whole isn't that it's the holy in approach to life. I think it's interesting that cow played call in the annual movie LA Moore. Carl fashion design if you've ever seen that film. He's actually quite his beard is good. I think that. When you see people who didn't have a persona like someone like Lee McQueen, they didn't have protective. They didn't have shield and. I think I get the feeling that Columbia felt Kaga felt had life. Of the mind. I mean, I I didn't know what she slept. But I I do get the feeling of him as being somebody quite moncus in his intellectual pursuits. And the other thing the ponytail the sunglasses in the skinny and the shoe pet and everything was this fabulous diversion. As it is, you know, in a funny way with someone like Donatella that. She can be herself because she has this other thing that goes out into the world as Devi, and he he went out into the world kale. Yeah. And I just love to know how many people actually got to you know, backstage. It was always so interesting that be people. I mean, I know I know they will were, but these really little old people who came to say lose him who were from his past remember? Yeah. There will be ten wasn't journalist now. Oh god. It was maybe Christiane Arp from Germany Bono was like little trench pin. But they were all there were all these. I didn't know who they were. You know, it was a regular group of people. We had to wait to say. And they would have a chat with him. They will always says it's the same thing with Amani. He has his friends. Maybe those are the people who connected him to you know, why ginning? Yeah. Because he have known them from some. Oh, ever. Yeah. And that would you know, you wonder about? Yeah. Because he lives such a. Multi-layered life over sixty five years, maybe even more that's a lot of living. And it's interesting to think that he maintained relationships across that whole spectrum because for the longest time will you heard about him was how he would dump people in as the lover Sahlin. She was his news, whatever dumped her when she posed for the Mariane French national symbol. How how kind of dismissive he could be how people could be exiled from his life. And then you see this other side that that was probably useful to have that kind of illusion. Not maybe not losing. Maybe it was reality. But it might have been useful to have that around to. To keep the world at bay. Because really if you felt you would want to keep the world at bay. Why? But was you do not want that world. In life. You just don't you saw you see it with people who are you see it with people who that agree of celebrities that Vass te. You know to go out and be mobbed. I can't imagine that somebody who think he kind of liked that though. Well, yeah. But when when went step out of his car, and he'd be like can't walk down the street anymore, and he told me that a few times. And I think that's what helped him understand. He was still relevant. You know was that. That currency. He had with even young people who weren't there when he started, you know, he he'd reached a level of. This Ahrends went there when he starts. Yeah. I mean, it's just the grandparent, you know, he's and I guess at the same time. He he seemed very mysterious as this like totemic figure representing an industry that you know, so many people want to understand better. And here's this like, towering personality will totems at private lives to exactly. How do you think the industry will pay tribute to him? We were talking about that. You know, remember several funeral. I would. And then I mean, French German. Know his mother's buried at his house in the north of France. Where would they'll be a memorial service in Paris? This Paris makes going to feel very difference. It's just so weird that it happens the day before Milan starts. Yeah. I I kind of thought it would always be like that. I kind of felt that it would always it wouldn't happen in a in in between season wouldn't happen in the middle of may or something I was felt that it would be just feels like he's he's so much part of the bloodstream of fashion. I mean, the thing is he he was old. And and and they had an extraordinary extraordinary life and career. And I can't imagine that this is not this is the trauma of. Genius life cut short. Quite the opposite. Yeah. So I think something like this the respect to the the veneration tributes and everything will be. The sense of French and cylinder skit when I say that. Can we get a shot of the towels? No, I think the I think it'll all be very very appropriate because an in very very almost stately because he is the emperor. And there is really almost no one left. There's no now we can think of one two, but there's we can think of somebody Malawi somebody in America. But we will never see that kinda game. Well, I was surprised how sad I felt. I wasn't. Been feeling really sad today. But it's been really nice to talk to people about it. And to hear other people's stories. I. I'm. I'm sad that we lose that mind yet at the same time. I really feel we had the best of him. Yes. And he said he was going to work till very and he did. And he did he always said he was going to hit a lifelong contract. But I just can't imagine without Carl, you know, and maybe he's he's such an important figure. He's being such an important figure for such a long time that his. Has presence will always be felt. But I think so. Russ. Can you think of another death in the family that is that is powerful? I mean, really nobody there's nobody Alexander McQueen was very young the impact of his death is and there was an almost and there was like a tragedy or tragic element is death. Right. Whereas, you know, car lived a full. Yeah. Healthy very fulfilling life, and you did everything he wanted to do it his way getting middle and in. So you have to be happy that he had that life and happy that. You know, we got to spend so much time with them and talk to him. And you almost feel like there's nothing left that you wanted to ask them. I had a conversation with them a year or so ago, and I just had this funny. I was thinking deliberately, you know, always going to have this opportunity. So we sat down and wasn't. It wasn't pegged to anything. We just had a talk, and it was filmed, and we ended up talking about him and his life. And of course, my usual candid way, I cannot find that film. We will find hope it exists somewhere. But it was interesting because it was just an opportunity, and he was in a reflective mood as well notice. He has been very reflective. I think he can see it in the clothes as well. The collections being designing. He's being very reflective for awhile. I think that Seoul pardoned Postles and talking more about about Hudson and about shoo pet in about love and family and. That's that was a man. Making peace with himself. Well, I will definitely cherish all of those special conversations. I had with him, right? From the very first one. I got pulled into. Suzy Menkes was doing her luxury conference in London. And she had just spent forty five minutes interviewing him on stage. And I was walking on the quarter corridor looking for coffee or something and someone pulled me and said, do you want to interview Karl Lagerfeld and this was two years into? And I was like what? And that interview is. Available for sterilizing on YouTube where the commenters ripped me apart. Because I was so inexperienced and didn't know what I was doing. But you know, he he treated that conversation. I think as he did with any journalists in the answer all the questions, and he was he was so filling about using the next person that probably knows. Yeah. Anywhere now. I know he said to the person came up to meet his fat. But Tim, thanks for sharing. Your thoughts thought to have a conversation. They we won't get many more. But Unity's like this. Well. Well, good. That's all for this. Very special episode of the podcast. I'm Imran Ahmed here with our editor at large Tim blanks. We are. Saying our final tributes to the legendary and people use that in fashion that word in fashion so much, but genuinely legendary towering figure you can go beyond say Connick because he was a fashion icon in the most literal sense of the world are Lagerfeld who died today in Paris at the age of eighty five that's all for to be a podcast. Please follow for all of the news around Karl. We have a very special episode of the daily digest newsletter. One hundred percent dedicated to the life and work of Karl Lagerfeld by.

Chanel Karl Lagerfeld Carl Paris Tim blanks founder and CEO Virginie incharge Chanel Lee McQueen Sarah Burton Alexander McQueen Hudson Imran Ahmed YouTube Fendi Google Silvia Fendi Lagerfeld Canada Tina Chow Antonio Lopez Phil
Makeup Artist Isamaya Ffrench on How to Define Beauty | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

1:00:02 hr | 1 year ago

Makeup Artist Isamaya Ffrench on How to Define Beauty | Inside Fashion

"Uh-huh. After beauty kind of having this notion of acceptance. What's really interesting now is, it's almost like there's a notion of rejection and beauty now rejecting orthodoxy freedom to express. Il, self has definitely changed in that you are scrutinized now because we work in the public eye. My biggest challenge is working out, where I sit now in being a professional makeup artist. What power or thirty do I have because actually it's the generation generation Z, or the Instagram that hold so much more creative authority in a way than I do. Hi, this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion, welcome to inside fashion on the Buick podcast, this week, our editor at large sits down with the groundbreaking makeup. Artist is a, my French known for her artistic and highly creative approach to make up. Artistry is a my is dazed beauties, creative, director, and has also joined Christian Lubaton as the company's new global makeup ambassador this week. She sits down with Tim to talk about what it means to be a makeup artist today in the age of Instagram with public scrutiny and ongoing changes in notions of what beauty really is. So here's Tim blanks and is Amaya French inside fashion. Highest may high. I would like to start with by asking you about something which really brought home in the last awhile. The power of makeup. I think the, the the, the power makeup to make you stop. And look at something with new eyes and that thing is, is eyebrows. Oh, Rianne is always thought with around live round. Great good stop. Tell me about reenters, eyebrows. And. Gumming me Sammy sort of Jean Harlow eyebrows vote, Vokes cover. Well that was. That's real pleasure to. Yeah. To block out herreid, bras and do that. Look, I worked with Edward NFL Nick Knight on that sheet, and actually, it was Ed, the sent me a reference and said, you know what do you think about doing this? And of course, they said definitely any kind of transformation for me is something I, I love to do an explorer, especially when it's on a celebrity. You see how the king like that. Did he find? About it lie just thought it was so simple and striking and subversive. You know, if just I when you when you see I'm obsessed with makeup anyway. But when you see make up like that, when you see especially combined with the richness of the headdress. And it just looked so radical so simple like a skinny, I Brown, I think Rosa interesting, I find them personally. Interesting thing you'd pop so the face to change just because. They have such a huge impact on your expression. I mean it's very basic. But. So fundamentally that will make you look, and feel radical because you can you can't be as expressive within eyebrow, for example. So I think it's more it's easier to create a new feeding around a face than say doing something with the lips or whatever was used to be is be most important part of the face for you. When you're working, I think so definitely. There's something unnerving about taking away. I browse. I mean, I know I drew a thin line, but, you know, for example, no eyebrows on I've had isn't a sign of health. So even though I drew on a thin brow. It doesn't natural. And I think that's something that probably people find a bit jarring removing eyebrows. Because what we know BT is luscious, youthful healthy. That's what sells. So I think eyebrows and definitely taking. Him away create a bit more of an unnerving look with veteran credible that had that the dynamism of that image. I thought was was really interesting. It. On the cover of the biggest vote of Tampa vogue of the was was quite it. Reminded me of a, how I used to respond to make up when I first started looking at fashion magazines noodle cadet Agiba, down shoot or a helmet. Newton shooter Suzhou attends makeup, and it seemed like in those days makeup. Had a different role to play in fashion. And I wonder how you feel about that. I mean, historically, did you have you gone back and looked at why makeup of the past? I really appreciate that means search in shore is if not the greatest inspiration to me as a make potus than any other artists out there, probably, I think, kids vision was so amazingly radical and beautiful and disturbing. And it just touched on all of these very these elements that made me feel didn't always make you feel good. I mean I know not of his images of these. Pale. Ghostly mazing looking women, but that are. They are. But as let's say something a bit doc about his work, obviously, dark about it. And I it's funny, you ask him about this reenter eyebrow, because I really I am so in other than think about it. You know, it's a lot of people talk to me about the reenter eyebrow. And for me it wasn't I just did it because I thought it was a good idea. But you see it see it coming at you from everywhere. I think that's what was striking because it did take me back to them to those old images. When makeup seemed to be makeup, seem to fill a different function in, in the world. Obviously, they have been there have been people like Pat McGrath, remove restored, sort of richness to it, and it kind of fantasy element. But it it seemed like it seems that there are a number of ways to approach makeup. And then this, this, the, the every day on your face in the morning to go to work, or whatever. And as this is whole other area that you seem to be probing, which seems to be more. Maybe more coming more to the fore, now than it has for a long time. I think you know, Pat McGrath is. You know, she is, if not the most well known and respected incredible makeup artist that ever lived, could I say that, maybe you just in terms of the, you know, the extent of how far her workers, traveled and touched people, and how, how long is what it's been around for. I mean I feel like the industry. Of what I know of it when I've been in the industry. I like touching on nine ten years, but be working in a professional way people like Pat McGrath and Guido egg. Eugene and Val gondolas? They really shaped what we know is commercial, like, say, commercial BT. And I don't mean I have not disrespecting because sometimes people say commercial. Oh, that's. Wants to be commercial. You know what I mean? I mean they shake a lot of what we know as a culture, what BT isn't what it means. Thank you. Yeah. The public face of it. So they've really held those positions. For almost thirty years, I guess, shape too, and that's partly to do with the way fashion has been exposed Instagram didn't exist before. So the only way that you'd see those images in great numbers would be at a Tory. You know, so they were able to really hold onto those positions of power and authority and define it for us, and I feel like my biggest challenge kinda going off topic off of your question. But my biggest challenges working out, where I sit now in being a professional makeup artist. What power authority do I have because actually it's the generation generation Z or the Instagram is that hold so much more. Creative authority in a way than I do you know I was saying the other day, it's very difficult being professional makeup artist and trying to maintain a center like maintain good work because he do you hide for an editorial shoot you go. You know, tau is to do because that means you no one looking at per hour. You don't even get an hour, the model maybe get like twenty five minutes. You're not going to be able to produce really amazing creative work in that time. Whereas say some Instagram or at home will have today's if they want to create amazing image. So it's become this really strange thing where I'm kind of, you know, it's my profession and I have to be creative, but I have so many limitations does that make any sense? I see that happening in so many other areas to. It's. In the second people say to me, what's the role of criticism? Now, when everybody's a critic, everybody has a as a as voice right? And to, to, to see the same thing happening in makeup that, you know, everybody can sit down and anybody can sit down and do what you to'real any a bedroom. What does it when you're saying with your you're asking yourself, where where where do you fit into that than what's your aunt? So when do you fit into that you get out? I'm still liking it out. I you know, this is an honest interview, and I don't believe that the answer lies in editor aerial work, I don't believe as a make apart. That's my personal opinion. You know, my projection of where I, I see myself going an artist or whatever, and it doesn't it's not going to be an editorial, and it's not going to be an image making. I feel like image making in that way, is becoming a bit of a redundant thing. It's, you know, people are doing. Move. More three D more interactive list, kind of stuff, so it's yeah, it says disa- funny place to be an all preceded Mia perspective. Sightly wise road option, and that doesn't just blew gender at blurs tie, physical times back to this Saturday since thing, though, you'll ill original question I feel like he ready. He was he was an artist. And I feel like his he, he didn't come across as a commercial artist in a way if you look at his work. The things he did with shift Sida was, and it was very it was almost like he could explore all his wit new territories, because I haven't been defined because BT hadn't really been defined in that way. Yet until I feel it in the face of b to the public view BT. I feel I'm Pat McGrath in that kind of generation came along. They started to really it. Suddenly take shape, I guess somebody seriously tents. Embrace. I always felt his work was so influenced by Asia, and, and the. He's one of the first people to embrace. Other cultures to incorporate other cultures working. Now, of course, there are so many cultures. There are there are not just physical cultures populate, the planet, but there will the online cultures and all the different kind of all the different Reconceptualise of tribalism, and all of them have faces when identified he'd be allowed to do what he did actually even though you know, looking at it in, in retrospect, that I. You know it looks amazing. But would you be allowed to be that focused on one culture, nor being Asian yourself? And you know what? I mean, he there was no divest. He in that sense in his work. Not also, not really something you can do to mainstream anymore. He was allowed to just do what he liked what he liked was, you know, Asia in that look you know what I mean, it don't I felt be allowed and so your freedom liberty of. Personal s personal. What would you say is kind of taken away from Williams obsessive? Yeah. And I think I mean he was obsessive in. I don't know. Whether being obsessive absolves us from, from amu- is what would you want? You're saying that people would now say what he's appropriating another call. Right. Right. But his obsession was extreme anything. Resuming. I mean he lived at as he himself leaving samurai. Well this fucking awesome. I. How do you how do you feel about? I, I feel I feel obsession is critical in the work that you, I think you need to be obsessed because you can't stop you need to be moving all the time. And I agree trying things I agree. I mean, he mean he definitely had a funny sense of humor that special not what I mean. His work was I mean, in a weird way. We making your faith though, I spent some time with him, and it was an extraordinary experience was like being with a. Yeah, he's really, really. You know, interesting perspective, I mean for you how when you're saying that he couldn't do that. Now he was free to be obsessed a now he wouldn't be so free, perhaps, freedom has change then for somebody like you doing what you do the whole idea of freedom as jank hundred percent yet seen freedom to express. Il, self has definitely changed in that. You're scrutinize now because we work in the public very much, obviously, in the public eye as to what your communicating and making sure your inclusive and making sure you aren't offending anyone. And for better or worse, public opinion seems to carry greater authority in weight, than fact sometimes, you know, and that's the world we live in an my get hammered for saying that. But I that's how I feel and it's almost like you. You, you can't be obsessive, but only if it's not offending anyone or it's all inclusive or whatever, you know, I think. I'm obsessed with new I love new things. And I love. Being challenging my work in new ways, finding new ways to express it identity mean like infill more in performance, but I just mean in terms of the tools, I'm given to create new images. I'm obsessed by new. So I think that's my obsession. I wouldn't say already have a style. I don't think I feel such legions had a style. It was very remarkable. A signature officials cigarette Gyger, I couldn't I deny you have to ask you, I don't see myself having a signature. But I think the signature of it's for me, it's all about new will curiosity, the curiosity on your work that I guess, could be, maybe he'd be his signature in the way that you approach faces monies. It's kind of kind of totality, which is, which is I don't know. It's been called subversive and I reckon if you doing something, which people consider to be subversive. When Shuli it's only subversive of some people being offended. So in when you're saying, he'd really wanna give Fenshui there are times when the notion of disturbing people profoundly disturbing them so that they feel compelled to complain is an asset. I mean, this is a almost a whole lot that conversation. I just don't read the comments the that's the way to which, what would be the farthest out, you've gone. Do you think and what you do in terms of attention, defending people? No. I mean like whether it offends, people are no, what's the furthest you've been able to go and what you do. I don't even think I've pushed myself that far to be honest. I sort of. I do. I mean, the medicine, she was fun. It was really fun. And I use percentage there, and I was also thrown nude wishes will say, lots of fun. So. Maybe I could said push myself and that some of my favorite work of ever made. But it helps to have collaborated like him. I get co conspirator. Yeah, absolutely does. But I think is one of those funny things where I also get very tired of sunk. For better or for worse. I get I have an idea was something an area, I want to explore and I feel like the soon as I've explored, it, it's done, and it's kind of dead, and I often think I sort of think about things that I did years ago in thought fuck if I just stayed with it a bit longer could really had ownership on that idea. But it's just not. What do you think of? Do you think of? I do. I mean. Let me think in such a way that you couldn't go back to a now claim ownership, even the prosthetic stuff, for example, would be an not to say, I don't have any ownership over prosthetics. God. But I just mean maybe an introduction into using prosthesis in a different way. And I didn't I kind of play around with it a bit. But I, I probably could've taken a lot further much earlier on in my career when I you know, kind of. I'm sure of anyone could say that you just some bitter don't use skim over the ju- Roach. No. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Or is curious when you send once in a way there are relatively few things undone that I could really call my own work intriguing. Of. Yeah. I think that just comes down to the fact that my work is generally, presented in a space is. Not controlled, but contributed to buy the people. You know it's not peer art. It's not narcissistic. It's collaboration. It's fashion. It's she sits not spy days. Close also people, I think, for example amendments in thing was entirely my thing as party. Why love it so much from beginning to end that was a project that I had in my mind and I saw through and. And. And but, you know, when you work in fashion, a of the time, we have many other opinions, you have to limitations and Dettori limitations. Whatever the have to face. So, yeah. Probably what I'm talking about. I'm intrigued. I'm again, I'm always intrigued them intrigues me. My favorite, but with Marilyn Manson, what was listening project, and then we'll can with somebody like Tom Ford on a beauty collection, extreme beauty collection for him, a very different people or other day. You. I. Four. Yes. Tell me about that sort of experiencing going from something, which is I imagine that Manson is extremely controlled may be controlling person. And Tom definitely prides himself on being the muster every minute detail. I think in a way I'd say it's less about control and more about an ideology with those two and they are both radical humans, and their visions are radical, you know, show amounts in my did radical in his dog comprising twisted. Whatever months in way, but Tom Ford is also radical. I mean he you know, those Gucci campaigns he did. Or, you know, the, the perfumes many things between the goals off cheeks. It's radical and I feel like. I mean it's actually feel it's a massive compliment to me to be able to align myself with those two people and hope that, they'd work with me because we share something in common. Maybe. So obviously, they have different aspects by think fundamentally. They are real pioneers in, in radicalism. Radical visuals deals. You know what I mean? So it doesn't matter if it's prosthetics, mar score. It's you know, a cosmetics thing it's more about the fundamentals of where that comes from at the call of the person. You've used the word trends, humanism that's an interesting because it's a provocative notion. But you can see in a way how it could apply. It could apply. See tomorrow the Manson. But. It could apply to what Tom Ford does, as well in beats the sort of the mutation of, of the human. I mean, the, the kind of two affection that the quest for perfection. I think it's I mean that's the what is it to be human human is something that isn't? I didn't think defined by having no legs and hands and fee and all that stuff. I think with. What was he Menino four thousand years ago will is the same as what will still be humans full thousand years from now, but maybe will be look completely different both still fundamentally humans, and maybe that's to do with, you know. Consciousness in all the rest. Whatever do you know what I mean? So it's a constant evolution digit company evolving do feel that's the sort of Peru. The parameters that you you're working with what you do that you're actually what you do is extremely physical, but you are at the same time poking around in the duck. The dot core of human beings to, to Gino to express in something they, you there is a sort of fundamental kind of darkness sold. Twisted quality, do you mean by twisted? Well, I think of death. Oh, am I wait. I just want to know what that means twisted extreme. Right. It's, it's I if, if we go back to where we started. You know, thinking about makeup in the seventies where Gable down models looked hectic, you know, in the makeup was kind of hectic. And decadent and. When I look at, when I look at your work, visit sort of. There is a sort of extravagance clue it and. You know, we mentioned subversion. But also there's a provocation that you either the it's the what the whole notion of what beauty is, is, is it seems to me to have changed quite a lot over the last twenty thirty years. I think think two things one is there are many ways to tell stories and that doesn't just mean films or books, you can still stories in images. And I you know, an think partly what I'm drawn to is not necessarily the idea of telling a story, but just something that moves, you wouldn't wanna make work if it didn't always me, actually, basil rat me ready. We'll evans. I find interesting moving or entertaining or for whatever reason mood, I thing, I'm exploring, but BT of courses change because it's a wave being shape. Worked by the culture war, BT's acquainted with now, generally, that means going down with kind of a different rate hid. BT. It's a complicated word. But in terms of say female aesthetic BT in a in a commercial way is generally driven by health, and what how, how opposite of what healthy woman is because that's what we'll sell products know women who looks like she's fertile and young. And you know, it's, it's basically anti-death that's what I feel like advertisers cling onto. And that's what sells a product. That's why you don't see old women decrepit whoever's on a foundation counter because it's not aspirated when people want to buy into aspirational things in health, and how the you know what I mean, and I feel obviously over the years versions of what healthy has have changed in that also corresponds to wealth as well. You know night, y you know, overweight women back in the whenever were considered to be beat. Because they could eat versus saying the ninety s when you had the whole Reich. Thin trend was because people could afford to naughty, it, you know, in that kind of thing and now would sometimes but. Exactly. Exactly. And now, people can spend factor fifty on then it, you know. He's just constantly this kind of dialogue between what we acquaint with wealth and beauty and fidelity Inverarity analyze things. And obviously the pop culture now and Kardashians have determined to kind of new set of ideals of walk, wealth, and is, which is, you know, big ahead and waste and tips and a lot, whatever. So I'm literally going off and on on current raven. Remember your question? Duties change. Beauty. I guess, at one point, there was an older dog. See beauty end. If you think during the seventies eighties, it was a sort of, there was a standard maybe and, and beauty was about acceptance of, of, of a certain set of criteria. I mean, if beauty comes from nature with beauty, symmetry nature is beauty so butterflies recognize breeding pop. From the symmetry of bits, Gossen mention that, but exactly fit symmetry and faces as will help sell products because I don't want mic. So then reproductive ice, electrical face is supposed to be, you know, Edgar Allan Poe was supposed to complete madness because his face was, so he's right. But I think that what's happening after beauty beauty kind of having this notion of acceptance. What what's really interesting now is almost like this notion of rejection in at daily now, rejected rejecting orthodoxy and celebrating all different types? Individuality individuality, extreme individuality 'em subdued. He isn't isn't isn't the wrong would now is there another is another would we should be using? That's why it's unity. Eight hokey I think it just has to be defined as to what you are relating BT, too. Because beauty for me something that moves me when I say, BT I don't necessarily just meet on an asset level. So I think it's important to define what kind of BT talking about. But I mean it yes says a rejection I think because, you know in commercial. You know, corporations have kind of homogenized, what BT should look like for the consumer like you say the perfect ideals of women in symmetry, and blah, blah, blah. And. I'm just guessing I'm just trying to dig a bit deeper into is it just a rejection of that now. Or is it something else we? Yeah. The whole idea what? And but also, you know, going back to, like, wealth and say, furtively, how does this whole wheat jen's e face will p no eyebrows bolt heads? You know, it's like the untypically of war. It was before. And how does where where's the connection there to the whole? Do you see what I mean? It's interesting if you, if you think you know that history, the historical the dialectic of history that there's a thesis, and then there's an antithesis, synthesis. And that's how that's how society will civilizational culture, whatever moves forward this proposal, there's a there's a rejection of the proposal in the to come together. Maybe right now, we're in a phase of the antecedents, and then the next thing would be a synthesis of. Thesis, antithesis, you'd have you'd have beauty. I think the would beauty is a bit of a bit misleading but was it? It's there was so many things that are beautiful a beautiful to me. Ted is everybody, everybody has their own idea. What's beautiful that showed? I mean, defining, what you're actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like it's in the eye of the beholder, I guess the that's such a cliche. But I guess is so true is. And what does that mean? Food food. Somebody like you, then you're talking about all these people doing things online. Do you feel there's a pressure to be something to be to, to stand for something to represent some notion? You said you don't have a signature. But you feel there was a pressure to maybe have a signature, I think, for me as a pressure to remaining true to my guts in, how would I feel in the way I make an image? That's all that's any pressure. And I yes, sometimes, you know, I look at whatever Instagram. Someone's done this amazing thing. And I mean it's pretty RAD the I I'm jealous, I wish I'd done it on. I believe it. I think it's all amazing on really have a personal journey with this whole with what I do. I mean it's funny. The beauty may top is was the last thing on my gender. And I hope what would be the last thing on my agenda. Fat makes sense. I like I said, in the pasta, Maya hold upbringing until I was like twenty four was theater in makeup us a. From dawn some performance. And I was with your Adams company for many years. And I was education. I mean, that's shaped me. If nothing else says, you know what I mean? So this was really not student. And I've kinda still view it as an accident. And therefore, perhaps. That's why I'm not. I don't feel I feel easy about it. I don't feel anxious about my career feel anxious about doing. More work on new work, whatever this because it was never the goal, ready. I just it's just a means to express. You began with literally began with face painting a little candidates in and I mean that's where make up the Gan with face paint. Not good enough, making cocktails local, Bobby enough pouring, pine. That's why. Intern tigers. Yeah. You know that's the makeup began his face painting in the four hundred thousand BC, right? And what I find interesting another interesting thing. Now is this being a lot of talk about how. I really only recognizes the faces of the people who are creating the technology. I, I mean does racial leg doesn't recognize black women's face? As you get into this, you get into this thing with makeup where it. Is it? Makeup can can get wrapped up in notions of secrecy versus privacy? Disguise becomes like quite a political thing. Where your self expression, then? Becomes. Away to. What reject the gain? I guess reject what you'll fundamental? You'll culture you'll race for example that all the data. Gather is the will want to want to corral into them. Big amorphous kind of target audience then makeup actually take some quite an interesting. Vive data style. Way to wait to rebel. And I guess that's kind of what I'm getting a little bit with you that it becomes a kind of resistance. Does it? I'm out my debts. Now. Because you, you challenging, you you'll challenging preconceptions. I think I'm ready. I'm lucky the I'm able to you with I think one has to really look at the context of where the work has shown my work isn't in an art gallery, sin fucking, you know, fashion MAG, for example, on a pop star on, you know, the internet. And I think that's when work or whatever you wanna call it. You know is interpreted differently? Oh, takes on a different meaning had I had I become an artist and explored this in a different way and put it on the wolves v gallery. It would have it. So at a completely different kind of appeal narrative or whatever you know what I mean. So I think actually be more limited. All of the gun, maybe in terms of, you know, the reach but I just mean in terms of the way what it's maybe saying and the and the. And the and the freedom in the message. You know what I mean by that? So I guess I'm only lucky only maybe appears really radical because it's next to a nested all the campaign. You know, which doesn't look anything like my work. But when you talk about curation of identity that to me is super I mean it's what you see. I mean it's what you see is super interesting. You see it everywhere now. That's what people are doing. What catfish is little. On a sort of banal banal little, but my and my more more exalted fantasy. It's I guess it's boylston onto something as basic as you can be whatever you want to be and make becomes an incredibly powerful, Tillstrom it. I think it does. Yeah. It does it does. It does it does what it said, but to DM which way you have no, relation real physical relationship with the person, but is a whole do you know what I mean exists with different strengths in different air in different environments brings us the brings us to your own education in three d design and industrial design put together with what you're doing now? It's a very interesting. I use it would again interesting I could've sit intriguing one hundred. It's another word for makeup, then I mean, if we do we need another word for beauty we need. In other words, I mean do we. I think. No. Let's keep it simple. I mean, the idea of Kreil and when you talk about crying I, I, I used to make when I was. Glam-rocker. Mary Quant sticks did in Fisher blue Vassili and make these incredibly lurid color, and use them on. I didn't have any eyebrows. Really, I plugged them all brave. The mind have grown back, and I remember he's going to the university bookstore and all the women who work in the university books on. What is that? I shed a you're wearing way. Can I make I smashed up? Mary point Kingfisher blue with a bit of s. That when there are no rules and you. Fullback on your initiative. Interesting things can happen. I actually saw went to Martin's for that course than I actually quit after two years, because I found it way it was it wasn't conception enough for me. And I had these grand ideas of going in and design. I actually wanted to be a shoe designer. That's why I was still doing all this dance and whatever and ever, and I thought should just go to university anyway. And I should I wanted to bishou designer and I got a place at cordwainers and then freaked out thinking shit for is what if I can only design shoes, then, so I so that's why did a much broader cost thinking I bail to explore all these different things tons out. All I was allowed to design with fucking mobile phones, and Chas who's not for me at all. But I think the thing that I did take away from it was the edge. Education in how to understand. A working with the brand and understanding its vision and being able to interpret it and kind of eject to in your way it does that makes us so learning how light, you know, a brand's ideology, what that means what that looks like learning how to design as if you were that person designer, but still being able to implement your own artistry. Oh, creativity whilst you translate that idea? And I think that's really helped me for sure on shows, for example, when I worked with designers to create looks because ultimately, you're trying to create a look that. Feels like it stood in buddies. The design. Junior Watanabe, for example, one of my most favorite. Did designers to work with he no longer I worked with him as well? I think I hope the more I kind of understand his where he comes from with his work in the way he creates things, and what he's inspired by whatever. Yeah. For example, he yeah. He's a good example of that. What's that process then because? I'm always intrigued by com junior that particular group of designers how how much of a blank slate will given when you go into work with people like that depends on show to show and I, I, I think. Initially when I first started working with him, he wanted to get a little light as I sold in riddle was amazing. You know, couple of months before the show need. Send me literally like buzzwords. Industrial revolutionary punk. Elegant. Paper clip like really, really like a riddle and he'd say, I want you to go and translate that send me look send me ideas. What does that mean then go off, I'd Dooley's tests and stuff? And I'd send him you know, pay the s of this is what I've been exploring, do you want me to go down that route this, Oregon, you know, it was a really wonderful process, me, and so that was kind of my phone, and then he'd say, no, it's all shit and the day before the show, we'd be in there till midnight, trying to work actually, what he wanted me to do for the whole, I think, as the more, I worked with him the less of that preparation. We have to do because I now come in, and I know he's I know I think I know I shouldn't say, no. What he's trying to communicate what his message is so much easier. Now we're only that till nine pm. You know what I mean? And it's not something that you'll favorite part of what you're doing then that you get to work with and collaborative way with these. I loved these slam rations. Yeah. Tomb of heard some of these team and Jordan Hemingway. I mean I absolutely love collaboration strangely enough. I think. Going back to my, you know, my real education, which was in performance, and all that kind of stuff. I think I've exhausted, a lot of my collaborative energies. And I think you know, now I'm now at a point where I ready just want to stop focusing on my own work, and what I may be have to say because. For whatever reason, I've decided I'm I'll let myself now an up until this point, I may be having had the confidence to do. So do you want to achieve what would you hope to achieve in an ideal world? And oscar. Jeep. That's not totally unfeasible for. Now I. Actually a really hard question because. I mean I've done right psychotherapy since I was twenty two and that whole processes about, you know, you'll constantly evolving in observing, and analyzing and changing and I feel in our age. I feel like my works. Hopefully a little bit of a reflection of that. So. I couldn't say, oh, I'd want to achieve, and you've been in psychotherapy how many times do you do that once a week every week? Yeah. Time now. How is that wonderful that your best money I've ever spent? On a go to all back. Thanks. Therapy. What I just think it makes you think in a completely different way, I used to think it was my seat crew. Going to psychoanalysis because it makes you very I think it makes you very flexible in the way you approach things and see things emotionally people on. So I mean it's just been a really important tool in my creative process. So you talk about thinking in three d so that helps you to think, in three D when you approach somebody kind of your, you'll even though you're about to make up their face for two dimensional image, you see them in the round when you're working on them. Then, do you think that that applies? Maybe I'm not sure I think, in a broader context may be may be just in terms of. Handling them personally, I don't know about the visual aspect to that. I think, but I just think like I dunno psychoanalysis just it just helps you, you know, just changes the way you think about things sheds projections. Sheds a lot of me. No, impose things from your upbringing, and all sorts and makes you bit more period to who you are fundamentally. I think so. Even in maybe more intuitive jobs. I think it might be. Yeah. Think think probably everyone has intrusion but it's whether or not, you'll brave enough a willing enough to follow the intuition. And I think maybe psychotherapy allows you gives you the kind of. Confidence to do the you know what I mean. Yeah. I don't know. Have you ever done it? Yes, it wasn't. It wasn't wasn't wildly successful for me. I mean. Mission osei. I did it because I didn't I didn't really I think it's really about finding the right person you're hundred percents hundred and I got lucky with mine. Mike, quote Montana, and I keep thinking I was keeping in defense. He designed helping me. I am. I talked about emotional beauty as well. And that actually ties into that the idea of psychotherapy and then emotional, beauty. I think because it's it's slightly less tangible than than of your physical, beauty. But it's more it feels like it's it, it would be ultimately more rewarding to be able to define that in a way that if Britain understood what you were talking about. Yeah. What is it? What is emotional beauty? What is the national due to what give me by BT? Again, I think it just goes back to. The, the context of the work, you aware. It's where it falls where it falls in a fashion magazine versus where is on a knockout Orie. And I think I can only really talk about myself in my work in the in that capacity as a makeup, artist working in the fashion industry, making editorials working with celebrities and pop stars. And you know what I mean? So does on g do you know what I mean by the soican, only Radi? Like analyze it relating to things that already exist in that environment which of mostly commercial. Do you know what I mean? I guess the top about about it because of it, you can only really kind of like comparative things that already exist in its own space. But I just wonder if when you're working with people at the end of the whole thing, they turn to and say, useful some fair may nobody's ever seen. You know, you drew something out, you managed to put something onto my skin that says something about who I am inside. Nobody's ever manage to do that. Whether that's emotional, beauty. Whether you're it's, it's you know what to calling loves it. Pretty pretty pretty on the inside. Was that a wholesome was at a whole album, identity? But it's by you're turning inside out is interesting when you using precisely precisely and ways to, to literally turn. Yeah. The human form with a human face or whatever inside out, I that to me would be a February challenge. If I did what you if I could what you did. Was that a lot of the work, the idea will have done in the past. I probably will explore this again, as being self portrait series, or I've turned myself into different characters from old men to with birds to, you know, Russian restaurant owner in wherever, too, you know. No. I did a whole series identity. How happy he was about actually for some food writer myself into a Tom Ford women one, one of them is like an upper east side, Jewish psychotherapist, actually with a joint forehead. Well, here's into that. But then I find not really. She would fight on. So is I simply chauvinist. Kobe, I mean, I think I think it's yeah, I mean I get I am really interested in like exploring real. Identity people character people that move you, you know, the inspire some kind of emotional reaction. I do love that. Find that really interesting. You think that's harder to do than to, to make gorgeous grotesques and isn't it? I think it's harder to, to kind of really to make that really accurate, a real accurate believable representation of that person. You know what I mean? You oscar. Very good night, south but yeah. Anyways, but having fun is Nick, I. When you've talked about the digital experience flattening. Maybe it's not you, but it's a general perception that the digital that the digital world flattens things and with your with your training, your education, and three dimensions, you could say that, that was something that you will that is a mission of yours, which is to inflate the flat the flat, you know, to give it to make an experience, which has been two-dimensional, traditionally more. More more multidimensional? I mean, that would be film, ready. I mean, not probably the easiest and most direct translate transition. Translation of that idea, which I absolutely going to pursue working on at the moment. Your own or was. Nia my own. Because of what is the next step that has to be the next step to turn it something into moving image and find that kind of bridge between an editorial or kind of idea into something. That's yeah. Obsession is a narrative. Is your possession now that's obvious obvious one obsession av. That's all it's an obvious. Tip is to make a film. Whether is telling not that it's not just crammed into one. Little teddy, and this hit ones intricacies and the complexities of that. You know, expanding on that world and that idea. Yeah. For sure. But everything that you do all that, all is sort of subversive radical steps. You've you've you Tate. No. You said you say radical. I didn't mind that was radical, because I'm very big on this notion of makeup. That's not even today tomorrow. You will. It's a weekend, you know, I'm very big on this notion of makeup is kind of resistance. And, and when you're creating an identity, you make your creating an identity as a as a. Rejection of, of, of folks resistance, or is it like that idea? But I'm just right. I'm just questioning is, is it was instance and taking control which is a form of resistance rise. Obviously read now surrendered control data governance, thick surrended control to yourself though, as well. You know who you are fundamentally born roar, naked, you know. No. Is it partly to do with that? Because I think as we move towards we are in this digital age, there's less, and less in my experience. You know, I live in undenied. Even just talking personally, what I see people are less and less engaged in themselves, and who they are in, you know, on a spiritual level. And so I just wonder if you know, it kind of goes hand in hand with that drink, what you're doing. Drink what you do is, maybe if it's a reaction against that you're trying to kind of inculcate until you do people seduce peaked. Yeah. Looking at themselves again. Oh for sure. I mean that's what I spend every week doing for an hour was technology's role in that for you. We'll take -nology is just a tool really. I think tool of communication and just allowing you to. Really? Help make the image as close to your vision as possible. I mean I'm talking about Photoshop for example, love it. We'd all really awful without it, so thanks adobe. But I mean. Technology. I mean, what part of technology what par in? Oh, instagram. Computers phones, what par digital gain. Acacia. Gain occasionally circling settling over us. That's one thing is really what one thing. I just quickly finding quite interesting with the whole digital thing of is Lee as people are less inclined to go out and pick up and read. That's a fact read a book, Luca references literally outside spend time off their phones. The pool of information and visuals is. There is a finite number within the mobile phones where you can look out the longed on the internet, and free for C and like the art, then the, the artworks that are coming out of that. It's like this kind of weird self generating stuff, that's just like being so. What's the word? So. It's like feeding itself on for ritual exponentially. And I find that really interest missed with but sewer. But I find that really interesting. What that means? Now. What that looks like you know, I mean, we're finding out but. And the more people are attached to their phones, and the lesser. They look around them and feel and experience. Whatever maybe that's a romanticized incident. What, what are your feelings on? What do you mean? I mean, in terms of like Selby's, self regard kind of diverted people. Well, it's what you were talking about. It's kind of by voted people from the real world with us. Just that digital platform is becoming our community, isn't it on? That's what the community is based on his interaction of images, shed of yourself, and that kind of thing are you, inspired by the people who are rejecting that, like you. There's a lot of talk about GNC that rejecting, they're rejecting Instagram rejecting that kind of community whatever it is. You know, you'll you'll your widened to hundreds of thousands of people you will never meet, and you have the sense of you have the sense of belonging at the same time as you've never been more isolated or alienated. The weird paradox of digital intimacy and kids, I keep reading that reading books like you said, nobody reads books and this book circles, now with kids want to an object that they can swap with their friends, and it's not about an e book, or something, then, and they won't vinyl any normal. These things talk about it just a question on that. Light. What are the actual numbers? Is that a romanticized are too many people really? I mean everything begins with a handful of people trade. And, and whether that handful of people remains a handful of people, and become become like some kind of beacon future fish writers wondered, what the actual reality that is when we're having less and less control over what? Lina lesson us control over selves, on our privacy, you know, because yes that might happen on one hand with which is a lovely awesome. Idea these kids doing that. But then what about, you know, the reality that I'm not be conspiracy, or whatever, but, you know, government controlled and implemented things with mobile phones, and data sharing and that because they're not, they're not they're not too different. You know, it says still going to be exposed to all of that. You know what I mean? You could probably say that it's always a nation different on a different kind of always been a complete kind of rampant inequality and the governor the governors and the governed, you know, throughout human history. But I wonder I wonder what when sleep you with what you do with it. How you feel what you do. Can influence people for bid for the better or can inspire people to be something other than they are? Do you see that there is a big role? What you do. I think it depends. How you wanna live your life and by that. I mean it depends. Do you want to live your life through experience and through sharing and doing things physically? Do you want to be a celebrity? What do you acquai- success with? I think those are the questions that I don't necessarily equate success. I do on some levels to celebrity in finance, but I also Kwait life success to experience and growth in wisdom and Eliza other things. So I think. It doesn't leave me. It, it doesn't really change anything for me. I will still just pursue what I do with the same hopefully. Yes. Integrity in thing that I always have done, which is constantly changing. But there's no there's no, like financial reward all celebrity rewarded the end of it really if that happens that happens. But for me I can't stop making work. I can't stop exploring shit. You know what I mean? I don't know if the lesson to the people is to just. Try do you know just do you forgive in your work? The redefinition of, of things like beauty of something as, as so as nurturing the Niger a beauty is always being just redefining that in something opens up a million doors, and windows, the people. It's nice. I thought. Yeah. They also by us if that happens what I did. Thank you very much. Talk to you, and we went nyc. Nice. Next time. Thank you. If you enjoyed this conversation, you're might also be interested in joining. B O, S global membership community. B O, F, professional are members receive exclusive deep dive analysis in our daily digest Email as well as unlimited access to our archive of over ten thousand articles, our new iphone app special print issues, and all of our online courses and learning materials from B, O, F education. For a limited time, only, we're offering our podcast listeners and exclusive twenty five percent discount on your first year of an annual bureau of professional membership to get this special offer. Click on the link in the episode notes select the annual package and enter the special code podcast twenty nine thousand nine at checkout. We hope you enjoyed this podcast. Please leave us a rating, if you did. And don't forget to share it with your friends.

BT Instagram Pat McGrath Tom Ford founder and CEO Il editor Tampa Nick Knight Imran Ahmed Tim blanks oscar Rianne Sammy sort Rosa Marilyn Manson director Asia Newton
Dior's Kim Jones on the Legacy of Luxury Curation | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

57:06 min | 1 year ago

Dior's Kim Jones on the Legacy of Luxury Curation | Inside Fashion

"This episode of inside fashion is brought to you by shopper five plus from the first sketch to the retail floor. You need a commerce platform to help you scale at the speed of your ideas. That's why the world's fastest growing brands like Steve Madden chubby. He's the sports sack, and Jim shock rely on shopper fi plans to sell to their customers around the world. You'll be able to go wherever your customers are from New York to Milan to Instagram, and they'll make sure you look brilliant in every size from pop up shop to mobile. Join over five thousand brands on shop. If I plus at shopper fi dot com forward slash. B. O F. I wanted lightness to your I wanted elegance at your and I wanted to have the aspect of it. This is the very highest Straaten of fashion. It is the most expensive, but you've opened it up to go into a Brandon work with the pillars of the house world than just set my own pillars seeing everything can you have to, we're am I going to add to this? Hi, this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion. And welcome to the B O F podcast, this week, it's Tim blanks who takes us on a tour of the new world of Dior, man under the direction of Kim Jones, a talented designer who's worked at Dun hill and Louis Vuitton, but also collaborated with incredible creatives like Alexander McQueen, Melanie ward, and Steven Jones to get a better understanding of how Kim thinks about reinterpreting a historic house like Dior. Tim sat down with Kim on a recent trip to London to understand better. What his approach is how he thinks about taking existing pillars and interpreting them through the codes that have been part of his career since the very beginning when he graduated from central Saint Martins in two thousand and two and launched his own label at London fashion week in two thousand and three. So what's the difference between Kim Jones and DR men and how do the to meet? Here's Kim Jones inside fashion. So Kim when did you get back from Egypt, Egypt? She days go, how long were you there for ten days now, as a man who some seen almost every nook and cranny of this planet about how did that trip stack up? It was really just incredible. Because it's like seeing everything you actually going to all the tombs and seeing just did just the beauty and the amount of work in everything, and just the concept of what these things come from, and how they were made is kind of mind bone. We didn't know I'm really knows. So it was quite a soul overwhelming experience. When you went today's things you it was very sensory. But I'd is like you come back and eat process. What is the, the process? And I mean does this does it does emerge in work at some point that everything you've seen experienced so on north much areas like fit veto? It was a travel luxury goods brand site was really about travel wouldn't destinations ritual came from the hundred trunks, which we look out, destination, that had relevance to be one of them work with us a way of looking to create a story, but in north at Dior I mean it has for me is different thing. I'm gonna can't deal with yours kind of bring me notice to work with, you know, we just went, and we wanted to go on holiday, and we were varies to someone's there. You should go down the non was this kind of incredible. Because you go through these we went to the temple in Luxeuil night, and you're just going through these huge corners with the heart if it's inside. Just move. Slow consigned go being back in time. Swore life must have been like and just, just the says sensory overload. But never really amazing way hundred. This phrase, how when Pires which is really based on seaport vaughn's for the time is mind. And when the God's telling us about out improvements made things that same, they don't know say much about these things, which she's cutting, because it's no Nikon. They can't find any evidence of information of the day. The hell this is the one thing that kept on saying to us is the, if the time when they were built when the earth was flat. The pyramids were in the perfect censure, the lamb sit there and just how they would know that it's kind of phase so naive. We have a passionate faith in alien. I mean you talk to be. I think that we were there any planet with life on. No universe. When you think how is, and how many things are in the universe can things that we can't explain on this planet. Would you say travel is your your own personal luxury to me, the one thing when I do of connections year to go somewhere away from what I do and look alive? It's in nature slow. I'm very judo of conservation work in my spare time because it's passionate, I've had since I was a kid, just seeing animals in the world and being lucky to have all these experiences. I've had. It's it's been in my life since as to be on Sunday night. What else is by? Do you know I realize it's a real privilege to travel on how lucky am seen much of the world? In such an amazing way whatsoever. Struck me as you have such a connoisseur, appetite. The things for your, your appreciation of, of the finer things in life like art and and, and. And actually luxury is so. And how does that sit with your love of the natural world as well? It's almost like you love ultimate artifice and ultimate nature. I mean, well, they're both things incredibly be only teenagers you go when you're in the middle of rainforest. You're seeing these incredible things you're looking at Tigers in the world, these animals. I just say on believable me, think about the production of them, just like to become this announcement predator. There's also the most beautiful thing you can see. Is is is the always I guess, I mean you know. My family who have they had good tastes eyesore things from Asia, just sat with me, and, you know, so being. You know, that kind of thing being indifferent, boss Lord and seeing had people where clay's different way of deed. Indeed, to me across the African continent. The style. Is this something that I find sublime people wear clothes in a way that makes anything amazing it could be in a is just as this. It's an always think that's the thing. I like I like working actually, we will aware of what's happening globally with the world's environment. And, you know, I know what we do in is probably one of the least damaging parts of it, and always again things to make things better. And how we can resolve issues and it psych union in terms of sustainability train luxury might might be one of the areas of the fashion industry is. Yeah. It's like is GT isn't an I think now cones Asian, we have been every to now about up occasions and things like that. You know. Worry, and then people have kids, the kids, they have to have a good life and generations of ding, you know, to seeing the things the need net flicks thing that they would action, but didn't hobos even with the worst is falling on the cliffs, the cliffs and just dying. It's incredible to did you hear about the foulland's and thousands of and propen Gwyn chicks? Yeah. Who died when their natural habitat that I've had thousands of years crumbled away to nothing as the parents, haven't even come back to that place to breed. So the parents actually I'm breeding anymore. Yeah. Was that was where they break near the having huge crushes in populations in both polls? That's the closest going faster students like but where where's that obviously that you see more more sense of responsibility in, in, in people who are in positions where they can educate other people. How do you feel about that? You feel that that sensibility is in full infiltrated. The actually say the notion, for example, when you talk about men men's couture. Yep. That is the elevator of a kind of allegation of menswear. I mean for me was one of the pinochle houses, folks. For me when I think of contrition on the Browns set set out for me as being the two Maine's houses that I think everyone knows the history of them being big Kajura houses in Santa room came from deal says, that's a different thing. But I look at what people also desire, one people with money moment, is something that other people don't have now. So you'll making these things, which special pieces that people do buy that they might might sell fight. But is like that's a big part of the business. It's really a thing these objects a BT, I guess we wouldn't Christian your exhibition in to the evening and seeing everything. Can you have to? Up to this. Vetos. Well, when you know, in this ought to do the traveling exhibitions, and it's like. The trunks and with. The qh gold young Jones. But where the leavings it'd be made. And then we went through two of the things that we've done and they stopped the game exhibitions as well. It's like it's. You don't want to be just historic. It's going to be something that's living ingredients while and people can. Have the dissolves gun by? So what was what was your decision when you looked at the when you looked at the, the heritage of Duran what can you ask yourself? What can I bring to it? What did you have you on of his life, his love night? His love. Defacto his Gatos before makes it seem to work without you because he would be doing that. Now I think he's all started off. I mean. I'm quite. Meet your savvy in some ways. And he was he was important American publicist in when he started the Brown discarded like. Outs very forward thinking an inside being, you know, the office is coma aspects of what he did his ingesting, and I think. The there's an appeal to him as a person as what is what the brand is Monica, the whole rather than just the Brown because you can find more we use surprise that compatibility that compatibility emerge as you started work a on your project. Yeah. I mean, I did I did. Club before joins. In two months about that's it. This is still has a resident such people is still in people's minds, and it's like get into the second Chaigneau others. These huge. Variables being the world's in China and Hong cones pan everywhere. And like it's kind of like. The fact that it's completely changed. And switch didn't people are it's and but people ever understanding. Do your is through it. I think an understanding the references come from his work, which I think is. More approach to go to work with the Pinhas of the house, while than just set my own because I think this brings some stuff to the house, you will that working for the brand, and you interpret the bound that's how I see it. See, I think what what's been interesting? What's what's, what's quite what stands out about what you've done so far is the sort of reverence for the autism. Incredible incredible work. That goes into what you're making and this sort of future cystic strain as well. Which is interesting to like the robots. But also the this is something. Almost indigo lactic about about the way you're showing clothing and. It feels to me like bets kind of deal with too, that he was looking to the future and away that maybe people didn't think about so much of a time. No, I know. It's like you know, I mean is really funny because with this as you cheap thing that mouth mccaren. Swap move out Christian being always a rebellion. And that was like, the, the teddy boy, couldn't wait people dressed. And really that was the founding thing he thought was punk. And I thought that was quite interesting. What Christian Dior grandfather? Funny, isn't it like that? So the way that Malcolm mccown prices well, was very thing. And then you go back and you see things down. Totally. Sent me a link to that amount. Some Christine do, and it's like those things have the reverend's gang three different. Lots of sub coaches, which obviously interested in. It, it fits different things. But the futuristic thing for me it's like we did that cut. Cut being runway for the loss. I was being dumb. But I think the way that we did it, it was kind of like the map, it was like looking at the idea of asylum, whether women stood still people to the governments and says taking that story reference putting into context and makes quite as powerful image. I mean the thing really great people working with Asian Pietra's, really. Ju just do it in the livers supervisory, and supportive. And, you know you go and talk about the idea. And then it just happens. Like, really, really great facilitates. I feel like you, you know, they give you the confidence scare that edge further. I mean it just feels like it slightly few, gene. I, I did. People who only people in different guises made big impacts on things. I think that's you have more is for now. Well, it's this is said old idea that. You know you go through the past to the future. Yeah. And so there is this element of lacy in history, and that's quite classic beauty. But then they're also is this other thing that makes you stop. And look that's slightly disturbing. I suppose in a way I mean I think that you've been always been very good at adding that little kind of single. I like subversion. I think it's an interesting thing I think is something that people don't see if I and say we play with the things that we dolphin. And, you know, such a great team of people around. We work king is like. We get excited about something. You got to think how much more can we do this and just the idea of you encourage each other to? Mentally wards, and then Stephen Jones, he's actually a secret room because he's been working there for us is nice. The archive inside out is always seventeen things like the way that C C's things is really interesting because he's real, he's, it's really amazing people and his knowledge is unbelievable and just. Talk about some like he left the meeting. Tetanus H, E get texts of the picture. You know, he's been found that really quickly. It's just us. It's just us thinking of having these really great. People around that you don't Sophie other now as much as you, you, you're been inspired by Dior, Mr. Joel himself. And I, I have noted that is a real continuity between your work now. And you work yourself when you first started showing your own collections. Yeah. How many years ago was that? Now does ten years. And that thread, from van to now, find really I find really interesting. I wonder if you see that as well near this things, I think. I'm true to myself on these things. Is you have to have Paul view in it. But I think it's kind of I it's the cycles fashion or something. I think a lot of people are no of my friends young kids really into my own stuff. And, you know, the sixteen year old fifteen year old fourteen year olds in this ending, DM's with pitches of like a collection of cheetahs four have you define that pitcher? So they've done that could be research on the internet, and don't make the Russian convict. Exactly. And it's like you was funny. As reason new found the pitches we did with Luke Smalley those, and I haven't seen this. I never saw the pitches. And that's kind of it was Lee died, the new number issues the model in inches. Among of the month of month. So it's quite up to them and. I was really hard see them and just. He's still better now. Can you see things like the shorts the way that the combination of tailoring and sports where even the way the the models haircuts? Yeah. Look like the deal models now. It's really, really strong connection yet. Identing reference mine, what inside my head up towards Disley. Disley and. Lisi's been working with me for the whole time, and we're both steering the ship so to speak. So. There's things that you just. Through, I think an agreed to the half size pizza works to make up. It's the same team working life. I think. You know it's, it's so. These things, maybe they just come through subconsciously. And then the the way you said it. It's like I like nostalgia aspects and things. But I think kings of that. Steve from really quotes. Finding Kim Jones been show, it seems like the, you know, this is this is really amazing this Tito and the. Obscene of talking about details with gets so excited by could apply key. Sixteen so we can really town things and gets excited. And he loved this really fun, dislike hearing his stories and things. But, you know that those first collections of yours felt like something new at that time, it was, it felt like you were actually you actually were pioneering something, which then went on to become pretty much the lingua franker modern menswear. But I see when I when I look at those collections in these collections one of my favorite fashion. These one of my favorite reference points flow, especially if a menswear Gatica, but because it's in the future, but it's only just something just in the future. So it's familiar but it's not. And I think that's the quality of the your that's, that's consistency in all your work. I mean, I was that forward, I think, because we're looking forward anyway, when we saw six months down the line. And you think about what's people one use realistic about this up. When it gets people come in and say this is about. As we also did do one. The we so in Paris is probably one of my favorite shows I've ever done because I just felt that the details of that felt very phenomenal. How tell me a little bit about that is like we did tactical, vests, and things will be void where ravens with Raymond's world coins and stuff like that. And just like the idea of. Defy the UN than it was like it was digital. No, because that wasn't started when we start the collections like, but it's a statement about things, the world's in a pretty weed situation of the moments, I think, thinking, so to mystic Aridi pulse gypped into the world and people will not. I think you talk about subversion. I think it was something oddly, perverse about using the outlook of somebody, Raymond pedal. Bon do the flyers for black flag and spending thousands of dollars hand beating one of his. Works into this absolutely extravagant thing. Yeah. It is. It is a quite a perverse gesture, but, you know, when you do his work, and how it's progressed from a law thing because, like collects his work, and it's like. And reaching him was kind of side you hero. You'll. I find it quite tennis. Novels introduced me to him, and we went to see him and, you know, and the thing we actually go on about animals about animals because I was like, you know. Each these meetings, and it became an excel is one of the signatures of deal. And I know about five. And so, you know. West coast. Punk scene things values via straight Joe. It's like. So is be is things that Paul your life long time. You know, just kind of yes, it's poking away. It's done very luxurious way. It was really nice. So how we treat those work, how happy it made him to see in actual will. And the way that it's takes to a different perspective. But it's still very respectful of what he's done as one of the most eligible bits of your job that you love, Raymond paid upon you get to collaborate with you loved the Chapman brothers. You love Christopher Nemeth you, you've managed to we your private passions into the work for the most high profile fashion. Labels in the world. I mean, you know, the thing was very interesting because I in Japan, very recently, and in the store to see the family like his wife and daughters. And this is nice to see. That businesses changed since that's how people respect and like, you know, they knows what more now because of that. GDN gordon. Was like the tree. I gathered you. You see someone the work MC lexin with us. And. You mean we've been communicating before you. He died. We'd be working on a project together and it was taking. No meantime, and stike you see things we're not looking at GD's impact on, on Morton's starting and. Him putting things together from design his helmet Lang Maggia, working with Joan different things, and seeing how actually huge in French where he was. But no. You didn't. You know, all the music stuff Buell kidnap had like these different things, you wouldn't think you just didn't lose starting this for this. Just. Young's, that's the even Sears chooses to wear. It's like there's different things which know the behind the scenes infraction way you get these difference. Things coming through. And it's like a team with people, that's the kind of thing that I think is the fun interesting research. But you think that people are more when now when they look at it when I look at an image that what goes into it when, when they? I, I think there's more of a cult of personality now, maybe than they used to be. I mean, this is funny because this is too, as that people. See people they proceed them from that image. And then they received from us tabloid view as well. I guess, and I think that I mean, I think the information being more valuable period because you can talk on the kid and find it by quickly change the way, we think about how things but you'll doing doing book, signing magazine signings, doing personal appearances ten years ago that kind of thing just didn't happen, or as I would do input costs, this wouldn't happen to like cut if he does like to indicate and saying, no king. Good. See Tim's to put cars. You know, 'cause like to like would teach to extra things you have to do for shoot and appetizing. And you know, is really does a lot more work that goes into things now. And it's like, but, you know, in the stories about these fabulous shoes for weekend amazing -cation wrong going in that stop fantasy infections really exciting and interesting. And. And it's like working with Steve Moslem come pains with Roni and pattern Guido. Do you know that like me be owned an amazing experience and really fun and exciting to do? And I love the would more campaigns against spend more time with them, and we just really have a really fun love. And just watching him work is incredible. For day, though, like way, it used to be a week. And this is I just. Perfection happens in front of you. That was really unbelievable. But in all the time, I've known you thought it'd be was quite shine retirement. Type said how do you cope with this, this profile? How do you feel the fact that people know you now? You come up to me in the street for vita will just to say Hello. And I'm always really flattered. I mean, I think I'm quite unrecognized on a bit. Boy, looking. So I really think about. You know, it's, it's a new thing, and it's kind of like I've friends, I can talk to about majesty. No. Sums it. Traces. What do you think this is really surreal is the job now is them? So you just do it also that there's something very odd. But there's something quite personal about what, what about the work, so, you know, you represent that in a way it comes from you that this sort of yet curiosity that your curiosity, and then there's sort of curious Conaty, mclovin, everything you have to be able to talk about the thing. Probably one of the things you know, with myself is, I think people can relate to me. I think, and they think I'm I guess I'm quite approachable, so Pete costs, the consumers I mean because I love to meet people like you can to the show United shops and seeing what works what sells, you know, their feelings about things is allowed to hear. Everything can be made the customers in the stores. See new events like system Japan magazines so into baby. So he could. You know somewhat baby's forehead. Eighty. Is the pitcher is like I did want to the other. And double the parents had the signatures tattooed. Yeah, the we, we did a pitch man Kate with the baby also is really, it was just the key, baby. And. And there was just that's what you think of. Nice to just meet people. But you said people show up with your old, clothes and stuff that I mean, it's like people bring engines like from two thousand and three women signed, and I'm really happy to do that because it's like it's the still. They folded me from radio and they're still buying my designs, which is kind of really. Interesting. That's funny because this is on late. It's pitch of the Russian connection. Then you look at that thing. And it's like I did that. But he's saying that makes me think, you know. You know, I think there is a connection, but you conscious of your. Increase in the aware of you of your own influence of. You know what to loss of young designers and people, and it's like why do really like the fact that. You can have these conversations and, you know, they they'll say to you good, you really inspired me to do this. Nothing for me is repulsive thing. I think how Virgil works really inspires a lot of people. And that's why he's really super successful. He does the wrath. And, you know, there's lots of different people that have that thing that draws people to go and do something. And I think not severely important thing was the interesting thing went interesting thing is that this is the very high Straaten of fashion. It is the most expensive, the most the most kind of exclusive. But you've opened it up. I mean I mean, people now I, I mean there must be so many people who couldn't afford couldn't afford the clothes, but who now are engaged by the world of deal, man. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's kind of really interesting when I go walking down the street and you'll. Doc, I think has king from the master to the canal street like before marks wedding, and Charlie's wedding and a so five people with deal things. She's bags clothing, and I thought that like seeing on the street for me is the thing that makes me feel happy as seeing people they buy because they love it because it is expensive. And it's like you know, it makes people feel good about themselves. That's something I think, is really, you know. You know, that's makes people happy. Great. And do you think what you're doing signifies, a kind of shift in menswear own or, or people's idea of what, what, what is masculine and the standard this about things were, you know? Doesn't area which is a from that can be by man woman, and he wants to wear it. It's like then, you know, the things on making out from the Dior KYW, which of very women's wear things that we can then transfer into something just moving shifting slightly becomes something just memoir now. And it kind of is of seeing the inscribing types of, you know, people how they wearing stuff that might be interested because people are going to vote, and they think about how they can wear, and, you know, is just having by information that makes you think things in a different way see that there's been a delicacy, almost, and a lot of the stuff you've done the lights and finally Zionis. Tightness to you. I wanted elegance do and I wanted to have. Unite the aspect of it. It doesn't mean not a ways in Austin, a collection, but. But. For me as a really pleasurable experience in all safe to the studio, and like, you know, you get these conversations, which make you think, in different ways, and people collaborating you cover seventy people every day from the tiller to press team to, you know, Pietro to alleviate on, it's like an each person beautiful web information that you're gonna think about price S, and I think that's a really interesting thing. And I love it. When people have seen lots of products and designs work, he see them. Get excited by things that makes me feel very happy about why Dave, how significant do you think it is? UN Virgil who both considered to be sort of crown Princess of St. wear have kind of moved away from that idea. You know, it's like, I think. You shift is natural progression as is like how you feel about things. And you know, Mike buck who was always super support to veto on one thing when we spoke as I was leaving. It was like, you know. Just, you know, it was like, you know, he he worked deal and he said, it's a very different thing is a very different thing. And he was very sort of sweet and gave me. An interesting perspective on the brand new. I think that. You know. Just people saying things is very different way of working very different feeding two places there's certain Eleuthera guests when you when you when you given a couture Talia when you're given the, the, the options available in a couture Atelli, do you find that you? I mean, there's I guess I'm thinking those probably nothing you do get really, you know, and it's like kind of United the next collection, we have a lot of interesting things coming. And you know it's teams like the television show us things in the way of making things that they somewhere along the law in working with each are known himself or different kitchen houses, and. They will look at a sketch and actually, this is really interesting. I'll make a a twelve that and show to the UN's I there's a real conversation going on. And it makes you think in a different way, and I think, you know, the design up is nice to have different challenges. And think in a different way to think about myself when I do my work. I think about the people that by the guys, I think about the brand, but see some in the United so did you ever imagine and wildest dreams that something would happen to you? When you. Graduated from Saint Martin's. No. I mean is funny because Johm book collection, and then I met EBay shortly after nly was one of the guiding light tomato ways of giving me the confidence. Just go. I never things move. I never have small, and I always felt that I would do I. Tom I just do. That's how I do. Because I obviously with. They organized and Pam when working, but I didn't have a game plan are just, you know, things happen. You know, it's kind of like. It felt like a right time to do something else, they were opportunities and. It just happens. I didn't know what it is. I just do it alchemy. Yeah, exactly what did you learn from lead? You. We talk fashion very much. We talked about other stuff and it's just like why, you know. He would always give these a soundbite that was really good. And you know. When he'd like I remember him talking to, like certain situation, and he just gave her the most amazing sound advice like. That just change the way that she talks about it in such a instant going competing a bit sad about something to then just really spoke to mystic. And not so kind of an incredible thing when people can do that. I think that's why learn from him. Really? And also just the beauty that he brought in to the world, you know, like the way that he worked, and it's funny because I've seen Sarah recently obscene Trine recently, and it's really nice to be back in touch with them as well. And see Sam gains. We knew these the people that are around and just like. How things move on unite thought sorts of thing, I've noticed out about stuff, it's like you know, you were the person that told me Lee killed himself, and it was like in the capital York. And you called me when I was getting to breakfast for forty president, when I was at Dun hill, and that the bear bat goes, I have evolved here for you than someone else. Ed hausky and K case is immediately driven to Casey because obviously they were by very close with the especially carry in, and it was like. If like. There was that person though, that you could grieve with, you know, it was like, but we, we used surprised by what happened subsequently with, with him that became the sort of the came the godfather, he became this dawn of fashion. Did that surprise you? That. Not really. Because as I keep deserves that, doesn't he like, you know, it's interesting to think how things would be if certain people listed around. Yeah. As for me this question you ways, you know, this fascination of eight Cup coacher. And these people are Liebau and how that would have been imitated over the time and unique changed its like all these people in the went too soon because of things I aides and is like the world would be like if they be around. So I mean, you've set yourself up in, in as a pretty significant keeper of the flame. I mean you have a collection of, of clothing of England of British fashion from the eighties. That is like a museum worthy collection. And I think of all the DJ's. All the music. And you'll you'll very Carvel approach pop culture, is, is really interesting when you look at your work in fashion, as well, I have to and feel the to match. I mean my, my passion for these designers from that time, I think, is I wasn't there at the time and I think it just seems I. Looking at the imagery, from looking seeing the clips that Geoffrey Hinton yuno would put in the HI and the fact, he filmed everything, like it just seemed like cannot. He chide me something going to DVD and it was this. I just wanted to be it was kind of like the energy that came up with site powerful. So I think that's really he's to interest comes by day. Early. I just music something that I call him without. I have to have it. You know, it's like even does do I'm doing Sherry music, so just obsessed by the. You know, and then a drive everyone not by playing nonstop when we do the fittings, but then everyone, you know, it's like. Unfortunately, that's just how is like. But you had the opportunity to work with people like hunting, Dijon, people that you would Meyer that you can bring into your world. Now, do you think in any way you will you trying to recreate you're trying to create your own version of the energy from that scene that you're in Frederick recreated? I just appreciate how people post I did things together like that. You know, they create the family or. The related to body map or you know, it's like all this different things where things became a community. I think that's really interesting. The fact that people felt they belong to something is very key. I think I think that's even more relevant will trip the the drive of fashion as always being one of the most fascinating things about it. I mean seven I'm really fascinated by an absolute admire hugely recovery was, and how he creates things like is always so impressive, but of any ever bought pieces of his work because it's doesn't suit me. I think I absolutely love it is like something you look at things and you can really appreciate them. An have admiration, and it's, but it's not the thing that I wear, you know, it's like I love the people doing different things and being successful, when wonderful and, you know, all these different brilliant designers, it's like I didn't get. I never get. I always love when someone does something really good agai that say you might be really jealous. So I think it's a said, that's the biggest compliment I can give someone. And it's like I think it's just really sort of. I just love seeing different people, and it's like I think is great when people have seventy different views on stuff, and I sort of United, sometimes when you read people, and they don't understand it said they would be positive about. I think that's a negative way to look at the world. Do you feel? There's a real hunger for, for that. Now, that sort of tribalism that identified as the need the need to belong at because the world has become so. A mood in a way. That the cult of Kim will the Celtics, Rick, or the cults of, of the Joe office, people are safe place in a way, I think, is, I think people want to be identified in a way or they won't be politics something I think is not as when people coming off something, I think is a really good pose to thing in the world. You know, doesn't all things on show in the world, that say he'd something get someone security. His could thing with I love the way you give people so talismans, you know, you you've always worked from the big picture to the tiniest, little detail, you know you love KE rang, you'll ever, you'll have little travel doodad. You're very, you're very conscious of making a world, which actually I did talk about the, the expense of the clothing, but making a world that people can buy into on on so many different levels. But doing it in a way like those little objects that, that quite quite sort of finishes in a way for me. I think this is kind of like object. So, you know is like that's an obsessive thing, and that Tito is digital things which people just. Did. I just see an inside Andre war, who was when he'd see little details that you take us. And I love you dislike laugh about, and with Mark couldn't we, we worked together vetoed and things like that. And it's like is just kind of Evan boys to when I, we issued that watch done hill. For example, the key is how visage is glossy page in a magazine as a single image because it's such a beautiful thing. And the fact that was originally, Don, I think, in nineteen in the nineteen twenties, I just thought it was so cool. And, and that's, that's my old house. And. We people would make that house keys even Connie's teams in because Silva guy Bendon blow. It's a nice thing. It becomes yours as personal, and I think, in the luxury market, not something very good things about the fact that details of stuff like that reconquer wrong with the button. Yeah. Exactly. Some of the islands. Details with this Joni who's really? Cy Mike could just this. It's like we always have to in some areas. It was like we would just obsessing about little things is just amazing. He's always really impressed how much we do in show amount time. And I just can't even get my head around how he makes his thing, and it's a slow process. But it's you know, I find that I think because I say accustomed to speed I work at to this, oh, slowing down Specht of. San makes the gloss is like mind blowing and then what's in solid as well. It's goes into like, just is looking at pyramid. When I, I would say what you what you share with somebody like cameras obsession. An how important is obsessive to what you do complete the obsessed by your work. I think. You're very fortunate with emphasis, I think you have to be obsessed with the things you know, my things I know I do is expensive. So I know we have to think everything in the consumed the best possible thing and give them Sion's. So what is the future of luxury in the light of that? I just do my work. You think is right for the brand? And I just I observe everything I've never known scanning. I'm terrible sometimes because I'll be having dinner with someone restaurant. I'm looking at someone's hand back in the cooler. And I, I would say, I'm really so I'm no door just like a Kosice can my mind's guy into jive? And I think that's kind of just how I am an but do you think. Personality is more is going to be more important that this is what we're talking about what we've been talking about this notion of people identifying with with product and would you giving them something to identify with, because it's not like something you say where else? Yeah. And it has this kind of quirkiness, even though, it's well, this is this is like a luxury product, but it's really quirky and and, and slightly weird in a way. Yeah, I did. I is because I have my view and it's like how I I mean. I is my interpretation of deal is and my main purpose of my job. And my brief my job is keep my boss, is happy to sell things to people that love them. Soy? That's it. I'm very lucky. I can do a job. I love and I have freedom respect to the people, I work for and support and a team of people that I see every day that I really love how much of a political animal do you need to be to work environment. I mean you have to really you just have to know. You know. I think I speak boy, think basically, but. Sometimes that might show what people seeing is, is not think you don't think. You don't think I'd very decisive work? Right false. We do things and I think some that can be quite. I do we had an existing team. And I sat down with him. And I said, how we work, and I think they were you know. You bring people didn't vote them. And I think that's just how it is. But. Deny fluff things for people, but I would say no way this offensive onto say how I think is, I think that's. I think that's. Is really to be truthful. Talking to the people I work for is like you things. They. Talk about things process them, then you like. I agree with that sort of like this. I think this is not. They respect you say honesty. Yeah. I wanna see are nothing. I like I love Piatra because he's completely orders supportive great if there's something he doesn't like he'll say and. And I'd take offense to you just. And I love to have the prices of doing bags for the shows and caring kings, saying what you think this will do you think of that because it's different. We'll peel car is a very particular kind of see. I think yeah. I mean he's trinity. United States is just to say it was really incredible people. And you know. You know I didn't before you. Absolutely. He's really, really special person. It is nice seeing them, working together, as well doing things that just see them going to call them having a Geico. And it's a nice environment work. How do you think you've changed, or grown in your time in fashion? You yourself ever really. I mean I just, you know. Because I haven't taken any have much time to reflect on those sorts of things. I think I'm still probably the exactly the same person, I was when I was at college, which everyone will probably say that too. But, you know, I put more confidence, I guess. This is a you said things just happen that isn't game plan if this is a pinnacle Buell as pinnacle what could happen next. Obstruct. Geez. I'll just do fly marine biologist. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, to be no. I have a retirement plan. But if I was going to stop doing faction probably going sedation and doing things have a serious drought, and I do conservation work that why you see me in different parts of the world. I support of communities to protect very endangered animals normally about the thousand in the world, and that's my passion and. I'm really proud support those things by talk about the my I just do it. It's like I didn't do it for self affirmation. I do it because it has to be done. I would hate. The thing for me the parent, everything on the deserves to be the and. Is like we won't my thing is I would hate it for the next generation to see in the world or pangolin or from New Zealand. And United these really unique animals of various special. You know, people contest you leather us phone and things that is very difficult citation to keep things. In. Twenty six the next generations important one way or another aid only legacy. Yeah. I mean that's the thing that I guess. That's quite a big thing to think about. When I woke for Vito done for. Do you think about your chapter in the book? That is. In my head. It would always be presence will people wishing fifty s time. What would you say after after all of that? What would you say? Is your biggest challenge? I'm I'm very reacted to, to environmental and pretend inside. Is. I'm still processing Vinnie being there yet. It's a very different roads of my before. So you. Prices go. That's the thing. Cpa happy with amazing. Is like you know. It gives is giving me a really good what life balance as well. Which is really good. Thank you very much. Thank you. If you enjoyed this conversation, you might be interested in professional our global membership community from the business of fashion of professional members receive unlimited access to all of our articles, daily members only analysis the Buick professional iphone app by annual print issues and all of our online education courses as part of your membership. For a limited time, only, we are offering podcast listeners, an exclusive discount on an annual professional membership to get twenty five percent off of your first year. Click on the Lincoln episode notes select the annual package entered the special invitation code podcast twenty nine at the checkout, we hope you enjoy it, and don't forget to tell your friends.

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Tim Blanks on the Spring 2019 Season | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

51:15 min | 2 years ago

Tim Blanks on the Spring 2019 Season | Inside Fashion

"This episode of insight fashion is brought to you by nets. We'd which empowers fashion companies to deliver a strong Omni channel, customer experience while streamlining back into operations, visit WWW, dot net, sweet dot com. Slash b. o. f. to learn more. It's been a very intense season. How have you been thinking about this season? People have really been talking about women, this extraordinary coincidence of current affairs and fashion affairs selene. That was probably the most anticipated show of the season. I just expected some much more. I don't get liberation from Eddie stuff. I get restriction. I get a sort of uniform Issey. How British did Ricardo's burglary fuel to you? Remember what Europeans? Think of the British had that sort of weird regarded tissue Rajasa. Hi, this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion and welcome to inside fashion this week. On the podcast, we are talking fashion month and every fashion month I get to sit next to, Tim blanks are legendary editor at large. I grew up watching on TV while I was growing up in Canada this week, there was so much to discuss from Hetty sleep, man's debut at selene to the emotional response to Tom Brown's show. We will cover all of these topics and more on this week's b. o. f. podcast, a special edition that was filmed during a conversation we had with some of our bureau of professionals during a live chat earlier this week. Well, for all of you be, oh, podcast. Listener's we've decided to share some of the most interesting moments from this conversation with you today. So without further ado, here's Imran Ahmed and Tim blanks inside fashion. I'm here with our esteemed editor at large, Tim blanks. And today we will be taking a deep dive into the fashion season that has just concluded last night in Paris every season, Tim. And is it in the back of a car and all of these fashion capitals. And we have a Chit chat about everything that's going on at the shows would also what's going on in the world. And we just thought it might be nice to have that conversation here and recap the season. That was all of you. We've got lots to discuss. I'm happy to turn it over and start with Tim, Tim. It's been a very intense season. It's been a season with a lot of conversations around the fashioned system. However, it's also been a season with very uneven fashion. So did you want to just give us what? How have you been thinking about this season? One, one thing that you and I talked about in the back of the car was this idea of escape and engagement and the shows kind of escape escape this a singer. Yeah. And how the shows kind of divided into two camps. Well, the division wasn't wasn't that acute, but I do think that. The world is the world is so extraordinary right now that that everyone is being compelled to take a position on on all the questions that are being honest. The things that are happening in politics and in society and fashions different from any other creative area where people. Choosen to to go for these sort of. The uplift of escape or to try and say something more meaningful. I think what what has been so interesting about this season? It is a women's with season, but. People have really been talking about women the season. I mean, really the issues that are confronting women and particularly women and. I mean. It's it's a, it was. It was. It was such. It was very intense month. You're right, but that particular moment in Paris that coincided with the supreme court hearings that those particular today's would just so. Interesting that I mean, so. It was just this. Extraordinary coincidence of current affairs and fashion affairs, which I can't. I can't remember anything like, well, no, I think obviously you have. You have events like nine eleven, which which impacted enormously on the industry. But I can't remember a time when. The were. There were political discussions. People people not people not being scared to not not invading issues, but actually confronting them. And I think I think what's very promising about this is I feel it will intensify over the next few years. Do you think that this was the intention of those designers to to kind of put these issues to the forefront, or was it just a coincidence that you know these Cavanaugh hearings happened in Paris, and then everyone kind of interpreted those shows through the lens of what they were witnessing happening? Well, was a coincidence. I mean, I'm Rick Owens this show, I think was one that really struck a chord with people because his staging head had three or four women black black models walking with burning torches and in the middle. Of the in the middle of his, his show space. There was a wooden tower which was set which was set afire and burned, and the tower representing. Authority and the show was called babble as in the tower of Babel. But I think the the tower represented the sort of solid stolid implacable patriarchy. Well, because that's what that's the spin that everybody Brian it, of course, instantly was that it represented the patriarchy now regards is never been that over in the past. But I think I think. Being an American in Paris and observing what's haven't been happening in this country. I think he he feels he feels compelled like I said to take a position, but it was so graphic to have these women his his women dress like dress like priestesses and dress like this is always an enormous quite eerie spiritual component and what he does, but to see that happening as Washington was was in metaphorically flames, figurative flames. I'm literally watching that hearing on mobile phones out God. Yes, I, I stopped. Mistreat and watch you just in the back of the car, actually, any way to selene happened later that day or the next day, I think. And that was probably the most anticipated show of the season. White is strongly opinionated. Review. Do you want to talk a little bit about how you interpreted that show and give it a little bit more insight into why you took the position that you took? Well, I, you know, I wasn't. I wasn't lambasting. I wasn't taking. I wasn't taking a strongly negative position because I couldn't. I can't believe what the done to say. Lean Phoebe had already quit when they hide Eddie. So it's not like she was replaced by Eddie. It's not like his. Everything she was was forcibly drummed out of town. My my feeling more was that I just expected some much more. But you know, it's it's really interesting when fashion is a very, very odd these. And when we were talking to Karl Lagerfeld the other day, and he said, you just can't leave for two years and expect to come back and everything's just the same as it was. I mean, in the two years that Eddie has not been involved in the industry Gucci happened and that was that was an absolute. That was a watershed that was a, I mean, everything changed after that Balenciaga happened. I mean, damn was solu- happened fashioned, found new leaders and new a new opinion formers. And I think. Also in that time, the center all the label that Eddie made his own so brilliantly, you felt about what he actually did the whole strategy and the and the whole creation of that entity was incredible. I mean, he's a Mazda impresario just incredible and credible entrepreneurial individual. He, he stood on the sidelines and watched that label go from strength to strength more or less using the blueprint that he created. And I guess I was disappointed that he felt the need to come back to the business and more or less more or less redo that as if he's saying this was mine and Rick to reclaim it. I mean, I guess it just felt. You know, I love an obsessive as much as an ex person does, but I, I just felt that. Maybe the felt like settling scores in a way, but I, I really thought that there would be something. I suppose richer because he's older and he's fifty now. Yeah, and he's. To see him still locked in to that moment in his adolescence, when those people, those boys and girls made such a huge impact on him. Somebody did point out to me very interesting thing that there was an actual magazine. There was a cover story. I'm Lee liberal. I was some that it was a cover story about kind of like bright young things, I suppose, but an how this it's attached itself to his psyche as a manifesto for the rest of time. And he I find, say with ref Simmons when when when you look at a designer who is really, really mesmerized by a moment in time and a place, you know, and, and this just grips them, you see that an all refs work. You see it in his work. You see it in his work for Calvin Klein is sort and his worked for Joel Sanderson. No, not much that there, but. Eddie is coming from the same place. This ideal, this sort of dream and this obsessive effort to recreate the dream. I guess as somebody gets older and hopefully wise, I would like to see how that dream evolved. I mean, the one thing that became very clear to me was essentially, you know, because he is so true or fixated or obsessed with this particular, maybe it was that cover number. It was that has created this. Create a vision in his head is become through that. That's the only thing he does. Well, is he did the same thing at your? Yeah. And he did it at center, didn't it sound but think about it? Think about at Saleen. He's not this. He has an absolutely blank slate before he had. He had deal. He had a blank slate deal sort of, but Santa Rosa, which was really his triumph. He. Always always was very careful to bring the central legacy and to what he did. He would point to something he had done and say, this is an echo walled, whatever the the, the the, the scandalous collection from the early seventies or the. The, they'd be something there that would echo Osama wrong moment because he worked with Mr. song. Yeah. Yeah. He has such a long. Yeah, history with that. Absolutely. But here this is this is used as unedited. Eddie. And so I think it's, it's very interesting like you say that he is. He just goes back to that archetype. And you know, of course, everybody after was saying, well, it's going to be a commercial smash, and you know the numbers speak for themselves in all the people like me who got on there. I got on their covered wagons and lumbered into town with the kind of dinosaurs opinion of what he's trying to do. Will will be left looking as obsolete as he probably imagines we will about. I'm curious about that because you know what good cheese proved is that there is an appetite for a sort of humanist imaginative. An as sort of exercise and just complete and utter liberation. Liberation of the soul l. asandra mckelway is like a shame. And in that respect, he leads his followers to this glorious promised land of Gucci. I don't get liberation from Eddie stuff. I get restriction. I get a sort of uniformity. But that may be appealing to certain people. I'm sure would it short will be born up what I'm saying that the world has changed since a was appealing and a wonder. If you know, I wonder if more people are clued into a sort of. If you look at what the youngest winners, we were seeing through the course of the month, especially in New York where I mean, I thought that was green, shoots real grounds for optimism there. They are very much that almost like hippies. And Eddie is definitely hippy, right? Well, it remains to be seen. I think certainly that was the single most talked about moment in the nonsense season. The mother moment that people were really looking forward to was Burberry men. I'm curious to hear your point of view on the impact that Ricardo may with his first show. I. I didn't know what to I really didn't know what to expect. I guess I was guardedly optimistic because I thought that viral campaign with the new monogrammed. A new monogram was very funny. I thought it was very smart and it was it was global and the head sort of funny wit wit to it. So I guess I was God the optimist about the show. I think it was very much a throw everything against the wall and see what sticks. Kind of show me. They're one hundred and thirty something looks. There was too much. It was way way too much by the time. The handful of black evening dresses appeared at the end. They just seem seemed like such an afterthought. He kind of wondered why they even there and then thinking about what will recover to bring to Burberry. It was such it was. It was such a kind of odd fit. I'm I mean. It seemed like an odd fit you, but you couldn't imagine them throwing the baby out with the bath water. So I think the first forty two looks will like Ricardo tissue show. The next the next section which was street wear and also Ricardo's expertise in things like switch some t shirts. And so I sort of funky appeal. So that was sort of knock quite high low. But you know there was a sort of bit of a dialogue going on there. Lost me. The first thing was that was a sort of different take on Burberry was was quite had that sort of weird retarded tissue Russia's system. And I don't think there's ever been. There was ever a time under Christopher Bailey where people Say, Bory was erotic. Now. Which which seem quite promising. I'm that's always interesting direction to explore it. I don't know. I gain the, we'll see what happens when it hits stores, but there is, you know, these people knew have. Really, really loyal constituencies, like Ricardo, like Eddie. Like just, you know, the sort of. Follow his. Majors, they'll show it depends how many of them are. Yeah, and and also where they in the devotion because you have a favorite rook style. We'll say Repub stuff you have pop set on. He's he or she is not your favorite pop stuff forever. On Burberry just for another minute. You're one of the things that I think burglary is trying to own this idea of being the British luxury brand. So Marco, go Batty. The CEO has made it very clear that he wants to take the business market bit higher end than it was before. Perhaps the second section of the show that you referring to the entry level stuff, but then there was kind of, well, it did feel did feel like two very different audiences. How British did Ricardo's ver-very fealty if that's what they want own will remember. Remember what Europeans think of the British. They think they're perverse. I'm speaking about this. You know, the the man in the street, but they, they have a, they have a perception of the English has been quite sort of sexually experimental. Believe it on on slightly deviant. Yeah, yeah. Kind of like an island race kind of in their country houses, having sort of. Yes, hotties party. And I think I've been I, you know, like bell jour. I don't know what the British equivalent to build as yours, but there was a bit of fat than it was when he was doing the British lady. The first section was quite there was quite refined, but then he had just twisted up just a little bit like like she was a woman of appetite, right? So it felt British to you. And now what other shows made an impact for you this season, Tim. My my absolute favorite show of the season that we started talking about escape versus engagement was Prada and I'm, she was very angry in her. Yeah. Yeah, she was. She had a dinner afterwards and I was talking to her and she's very shoes very angry about about what is happening with. She's she's angry about. What she feels is the lip service said is paid to the future and to, you know, we need a revolution or whatever, and then how actually actually retrogressive so much of everything actually is in privatised and she beat you mentioned the fashion and the art world and so on and what she angry about everything that's happening in our own country or. Yeah. I mean, it's the chickens have come home to roost and I'm using so many crazy metaphors today. So many stale old. I'm bond monce. Yeah, what's happening in Italy as terrifying simple. It's just it's just an even even through the whole time that we were there. It was, you could feel it. You could feel this is the the abyss. Yes. So she's and just thinking generally about what's happening with women around the world. And and I mean, I think she's feeling engaged in a in a way that I've never seen her. She's always been a pretty political subtext to product I. She was the secretary of the communist party when she was a university student and and she's, she's obviously she's a political thinker, but I think she's kept the the fashioned politics quite separate. This season it shoot combined. Yeah. Well, it's like athletes, athletes used to say you kind of politics and sport, and look athletes is so politicized now. Yeah. Yeah, I think that she's, I think she's very similar in the show. Obviously when I say something like that, and people would go to look at the pictures, that'd be what's political about this. But I think just the way she has started to define women through clothing, more aggressively and more of a more of a sense of community and also more of a sense of women versus men, which which has always been there. But a man of always been a bit. She's always tended to sort of team deep ball whom in you know, in a way that the men's collections at Mt emphasizes vulnerability and, and this women's collections, he emphasizes women's strength, but that was my that was my favorite collection of the whole season. But then conversely, my other favorite collection Milan was. Money, which was just the most. It was like. This the most fabulous trip. I just I think Francesca Russo is he finally hit his straw. Oh, my God, yes, and it was. It was it was a lot more polished in execution. He because he is he is very much sort of. Pell-mell enthusiast, I think, but then the ideas and the and the story that the collection told everybody, everybody is hungry for narrative on my think that's, I think that's a lot. That's a big reason why we're seeing the things that are happening. People need a story they need, they need, they need the sort of direction story they need to. They need to feel that participating in something. For better or worse. And his story was just brilliant thought this season, Tim fashion month didn't really start until we got Paris. It felt like a very Laupheim college? Yes, never. Never. Never more so than than this year. It was. It was so sort of the the metaphor, the weather was the weather was perfect metaphor, New York. The weather Neo was absolutely unspeakable. I mean, the day of Michael Kors showed humidity was ninety seven percent. It was like being suspended in someone's, I wouldn't even say it does India suspended and bodily orifice today. And then and then we got to Paris and it was like it was perfect Indian summer. Yeah, it was absolutely gorgeous. And it just lifts your spirits in your app in the street. You're walking, you're not dodging stinky puddles of water and this feeling like you need a shower every ten minutes. And it was funny because there was so much in Paris. They're always quantity wise, but. The quality, the range of. The range of. Work that you see there from new people to will, from marine says to Chanel from most of the most savage house to people who've desist second season, just the craft and the the execution and the breadth of vision is is incredible. And then there's a funny up the something else. Funny that happened, I thought was. I don't know how this this is the old habits. Everybody do the same thing at the same time in fashion story, but it's it's a sort of variant invent dress, did one of his bishops ever that shows beautiful and you just think, wow, you know, you think where he's been for the last few seasons, very good, very consistent, but suddenly it's I, he's like a new lease on life. Just maybe he's not worried about money anymore business. Well, the business was acquired. Yeah, and this is the first season since that aquisition where he, he said it made no difference at all. Really. You probably know. I think I, I think it did. I think maybe you know secure, but it was more than that. It was just what that collection was composed of it. The the sort of the. The kind of pragmatic glamour, you know, making these beautiful silhouettes. He's almost mature silhouettes out of humble fabrics, which felt like a film meaningful. You know, in a way to exalt the ordinary, to find the extraordinary in the ordinary this, it's something designers have been talking about for longtime, but you not for a long time, but for a few seasons, at least everybody looking for the extraordinary in the ordinary. But I don't think we've seen it so perfectly expressed as we didn't collection. Speaking of a lifting moments and amazing show put my glasses about one of the the first time I've ever seen you stand up at a fashion show was at the end of Pierpaolo Valentino show this season you Jenner was because I couldn't see. No, no, I still I still have stood up before. Four three times I don't remember or I wasn't there that show why this season. You know, this is he's coming off two of the most brilliant couture Shas. This show was different from it, didn't. It didn't take cues from what had done cure. It was a different statement based on the same things. He Pierpaolo petrole doesn't want to be exclusive. He. He said, I am against the notion of escape, which is which is interesting because then he makes clothes. They have this transporting extravagance. I mean, the silhouettes were just so gorgeous and they took you somewhere else. Maybe maybe another time or place or maybe I could could be the future. I mean, the craft is extraordinary again, the same thing like the fabrics and so on. He's he's making a statement that that about making a statement with humility and this very extravagant notion at the same time, and I found the the show. Oh, was so exquisite? I, you know. To do to those dresses embroidered and beat addresses and with is like six or seven types of fabric velvet and cotton and linen and and and sat in all kind of collage together seamlessly. You just just sitting there looking at these things and you have a hell. Do they do that? But on a on a dress as simple as a t shirt. And then of course. The cost about thirty four thousand times more than a t shirt, but it it was just, you know, it was it kind of, I think when a Duta cashew is the most incredible new model. I was been on ski about the model. Incredible. You model when she came out in that dress at the end of it. Owed. You just felt like you had to stand. Let's talk about. Do you skipped ahead to one of my questions. What is it about? Doot has got the whole industry. Just she closed Chanel, she close Valentino, she's she's going to be the next. We should say that you can't say other concept and we have some confidential information catch there. But what, what? What's going on with that? Dude? Why has everyone. Do you know it? It's it's. It was the season of of the black model. I mean, diversity obviously is is being this has been a. A touch. Key point in in the industry for for a while, I think. But now you're US seeing like Karl Lagerfeld was semi other day. These extraordinary new black models who take you back to what it was like in the ACC when you would go to show and all models will be black. Nobody ever said anything about it. It was never an issue of Kusa models. And of course you got white girls. Black goes and everything together. It was nobody ever said where the black girls we have to diversify just was naturally extremely diverse. But I think that you know, and then he said, well, we don't get an army Campbell every day, and but these these girls have a different very different kind of energy that they're, they're not. They don't have that sort of diva quality, but they just that they have incredible versatility. I mean, dude was in seventy different kinds of shows, but she she can do that. She can do the ballgowns on the big of. Big glamorous dresses with such incredible elegance and. And as sort of a callousness but still totally inhabiting freeness? Kathrina. Freeness while still totally inhabiting the the dress, you know, never even though she's so young, she never ever looks like the clothes wearing her, and she's brilliant, brilliant model, but I'm top of all of that. She's she was born in a refugee camp in Kenya and Ray end up on a stray Leah. So she has this really, you know, she, she sat next to me at the five hundred dinner. And so I had the pleasure to hear story like she supports her family show. She does she, it's just the most incredible, but she's everybody makes her this wow, this, she's and she's so comfortable with yourself and confident. And so absolutely natural anyway, that's dude. And I think that she's symptomatic of some. Of something else that's happening in fashion. That's a change that maybe isn't even being registered. In a sort of an being registered in in a way that that that mocks significance. But. Yeah, that that was happening anyway when she will Valentin address it was not. Jumps wants. Once an important show, I show that made an impact perhaps for the wrong reasons. The season that we should probably talk about just home Brown and through the lens of the kind of women's issues that came to the forefront. This season batch show did not get a particularly warm reception will. It's really, I think is a really interesting jalousie here, Tom Brown and Ray Kubo often get talked about in the same. In the same sentence because she I know she really respects him and I know how important she has been to him and his career, even even just supporting commercially in map carrying him in Dover street market and so on. But you know, in the sense that they had to designers who live so far outside the the author doc see that making their own rules doing things to close that transcend the notion of clothing and making stuff that's as close to ashes as as fashionable ever get this season under the under the umbrella under the sort of dome of me to rate the rate, our Kubo did a collection. It was so powerful. It was just it was kind of when this model came out. I mean, and she was she was pregnant. Belly was. Breaking through this that was kind of like a man's. I mean, it was sort of very newspaper. There was newsprint bodies which which from what I could win collapsed will the the headline I could see related to war. What was very interesting, but this pregnant belly breaking through an outfit. That was this. Abstraction of a man's suit was such stunning performance image. And then Thome does his show. With the close at just defy comprehension in their execution and in conception, you can never get out of how he comes up with the ideas. He comes up with. He has steadfastly. He steadfastly refuses to analyze what he does, which is why we got a problem the season because the show was agonizing kind of tone, deaf performance with models, unable to walk in the shoes, and they were all the models Donald Zver so joyous. Yeah. I know in the showroom the day before the excluding accessories, it was. It was like this fabulous candy colored dream, you know. And it was such a weird thing to see it. I mean, the models will wearing like Jason voorhees mosques like Friday, the thirteenth, mosques, but done in sort of kind of like one was melting ice cream. Cone. So imagine the good humor man and Jason voorhees having a sort of juke out at the holiday camp, Jason killed all the teenagers and this this weird combination Makarov combination of. Light and heavy and it just. Yeah, and and I'm sure. I mean, he's he's, he's just it just was a very, very badly misjudged moment and he was taken to task for it. I mean there. The talking what I said before about being a season where more than ever women's issues were to the fore and books of me too, and times out and and a sense set that certain things have been going on for too long and need to be needs to be a reckoning. And so on. That. That will. Completely lost my train derailed. That's okay. I've one last question because we haven't talked much about young designers. I mean, London used to be seen as the hot spot for young creativity fashion, something that the city has owned for to better part of a decade or longer. What would young designers made a Mark for you? This season anywhere anywhere anyway. Will it sort of begins in London always for me, and I saw. The Mattie Boven show, and I know that he's he's kind of the anointed is the protege of k. grand. I think everybody's the annoying. You know, there's always, there's always that. Untrammelled creativity. There's always the guy who stands for no limits. And you know, komo's be damned like last season was incredible. Stephen Jones hats with the with the balloons in the nets. It was. It had that it was joyous, you know, actually, that's what I really really responded to. I found I found the joy, joyous collections were the ones that would which of course is reflective of the world at large. You want uplift. And they were the, it was a collection with so it so. Energized and colorful. It's actually was quite. Colorful season. And I would say we're talking about young designers, but Maddy Boven was somebody who I think you know what, Charles Jeffrey who shows during the men's, and I think they're good counterpoint. Think this threat of London that will never die. The three that feeds London and will sit at feeds the whole world of fashion. What about marine Seren shack? Muc- both showed early in para. Yeah. And who was sort of the new face of French fashion. Marine comes out of the vet mall philosophy of very, very committed to up cycling and she were down now? Yes, she did. She did very, very, very committed to making fashion relevant relevant relevance is as I was saying to you before, and we've being through the period of. Disruption, and then we went through the period of authenticity where everything was disruptive or Zantac and now I think the would that more and more I hear is relevance. Of course, it's such a challenge. Well, it it means that I suppose in in the age of me to its relevance is is this combination of appropriate and. An. I would say. Uplifting. Timeliness obviously is, is, is critical. I think opinion is really, really important. But I think relevance to me is not just. Pointing out the problem. It's indicating a possible solution also feels like those designers who continue to design in a little separated from what's going on in the world seem increasingly out of step, you know. So for Tom Brown, for example, to decide to stage a show the way he states shown regardless on how beautiful and well constructed and created those clothes were well-conceived those who are they didn't have. It wasn't well received because it wasn't relevant for well, we'll experience that was. It was interesting because I could almost contradict myself here, but rob Robin Gazon. Right? A very good piece in the Washington Post about the Alexander McQueen show where, again, gang that said thing where you just you just transported by the beauty and the work and the detail and and Sarah Burton had the most amazing. Beautiful back story of the collection. Now Rodman just says, who's going to wear those clothes? What's the relevance of them? And to me, I mean, I found that show just so gorgeous and it's true. It. They'll be, they'll be some women who will with those clothes. I mean at wine just be Cate Blanchett. It'll be are the people, but I think. In in her case. She's absolutely mesmerized by the notion of paganism and the female, the sort of prime male female spirit as it was expressed in pagan societies and she went to, she went to glass and Brie and Avalon, which I didn't even know was the play. But I was told Avalon was place of myth, but it really exists and it's marshland, you can walk through it and she takes all that feminine magic really, really proper like witches white, which is which is that sort of stuff and infuses it closed with with this strange power. I mean, I did Oscar if she's able performed. Any spells because. It is self because he that that's sort of where I feel. I don't know. I don't know how to attach that relevant. Yes, What's it to me? It is because it's it's to me, the relevance is in the questions at asks as an is it relevant? I mean, the clo- the relevance of those clothes is that. People always needed that kind of beauty. There's always been paint as you just paint beautiful things. And then they've been painters who you know who dived to the the. Into the darkest, the dacas reaches of the human soul. And I think the relevance for me is that it's like reading an incredible novel, and I think it I think it's, I think it's food for the soul. It might not be closed for the office. Well, interestingly, in my in my interview with Mr. Pena which is in our most recent printed edition, it'd be over five hundred print edition. We talked about Gucci and sound Laurent Balenciaga, of course, and he made a point of raising McLean as the next bake brand for Karen? Yeah, waiting, all of that is relevancy seems to be resonating with a certain consumer group. And I guess with the the business folks at McQueen are figuring out what, how to do, how to take those incredible catwalk creations and creativity that you know, Sarah Burton brings and commercialize it in. Due shoes and bags. And so I guess that's that's what they're working on. Well, I suppose I suppose there is there's an incredible halo effect from from those which was. Yeah, I was sitting in that show are I was thinking about. Mcqueen's old shows and it reminded me that. What's different about Sarah burns McQueen is there's no production. I mean, the one show we should talk about by the way before we move on a Balenciaga show. Speaking of production. I mean that for me was like the most mind. No, I'll tell. But before we finish Sarah, both the huge different series that she's a woman designing for women, of course, and that has had a huge impact on as much as you can look at McQueen and MacQueen 'isms. The. The. The the, the sensibility now is very different sensibility. So Balenciaga what you think blew my mind. I thought I've, I've one point the John Rahman's John Rothmans, immersive, video installation. It was pouring around the walls all the time. It was like sitting in the middle of a volcano in Hawaii at some points, but there was a point with them, whatever was on the floor was rushing past so quickly. I thought I was going to tip out of my chair in full. It was like it was like this river. That was that was an end. And it's funny because the model is apparently the models had particular trouble coming around corners because their whole center of gravity was so destroyed by what was going under them beside them over their heads. I mean, we were in for anyone who hasn't seen the photos. I must be one of them is photographed. It is probably the most photographed if you haven't. Seen that and you're watching or listening. There's an amazing video on the b. o. f. Instagram feed of exactly what it was like a right at the beginning of this show. So if you want to check it, check that I also thought incidentally that he really sharpened. Yes, silhouette, yes. And the execution as he said it was about it was about honing the proposition that he originally made. So those clothes are so strong. I mean, speaking about empowerment, my God, those women's clothes and the men's clothes. I mean, he. If he's dressing new generation. That. It's going to be very, very interesting situation because they are the kind of close that completely changed the way you feel about your not just change the way you feel about yourself, but but I'm sure you know when when when l. asandra mccully talks about wearing yellow and he says five minutes off, do you put on yellow close? You completely change the way you feel about things. You know, I kind of believe that in some kind of deep psychic level, I guess, but, but it's so with them, it's right there. You know, there's no, and it's it's kind of geneticist all everything had like a tag, some like the kind of tag that's usually inside sticking out the Balenciaga so branded product. But that was I think the most overwhelming fashion show I've ever seen in my life and and be friends the the, the young man who made the music created the soundtrack of such symphonic techno that he sent it to you last. Yeah. And then I was listening to my laptop and I wrote to my sit. I want that sound system because it just doesn't sound the same coming out of a laptop. But it was just it was like a drug that music, and I think everybody felt like they were on a drug and those in that tunnel of wherever we. We, we were going to conclude with one question which is like, do you still enjoy fashion? I love it. Yeah, I love it. I had I had I, I usually don't want it to end. Even though you're exhausted, I would die if it kept on going. I had that six hours sleep in the last four days. I not because I'm joing at either. Because I'm what he and my room. I know I love it. I would. I wouldn't do it if I didn't. I mean what? What futile exercise that would be. I've been doing this for three decades and I think I've always said it's because I've noticed fashioned person that I can look at it and always find something to appreciate talking about narrative before the story always changes, and there's always new stories, and then old stories coming back. And it's just it's like living a huge complicated novel. I found this particular past week in Paris or nine days or ten days. I just found the most stimulating interesting in gauging. Like nine days of fashion that I've had a very long time just because there was so much to think about. And of course there was all this other stuff going on in the world, but it just gave a real. Boost to the way we think about fashion, the impact that our industry can have. Well, it's, it's, it's looking for a role in what is the relevance of course, is looking for a role in everything that is going on everything that is changing and it. I think in in a lot of case in enough cases, there's reason to be optimistic that fashion is just one of those things that's never going to go away. Which which is, I think very exciting. And I think I keep saying to people. I think this is the time of real, a really great opportunity, especially if they're young people who who will go into the go into the industry because they love it and they're not looking to become billionaires or whatever and has a lot to say, well, we are out of time so we can't say anymore, but I'm sort of all of you will agree chatting, Tim is just so interesting. Thank you for we could have chatted more. Have we put happy in a little more a little more clarity. Thank you to temper sharing. Thank you very much his thank you are unique point of view on the fashion industry. I'm in run on that founder and CEO of the fashion. This is Tim planks are editor LARs, and we bid you farewell. And we look forward to speaking to you again very soon about all to known in the fashion business. Thanks a lot. Good. Goodbye. So that's all for inside fashion. This week on the b. o. f. podcast, if you missed our live video conversation with Tim blanks, because you're not a professional member while now's your opportunity to join enter the code podcast twenty eighteen at the checkout to receive twenty five percent of your first membership to be of professional professional is our global membership community that gives you access to everything you need to know to be a top professional in the fashion business from exclusive features and content to our special biannual print editions and yes, access to conversations professional life.

Tim blanks Eddie Paris Ricardo founder and CEO Tom Brown editor burglary Karl Lagerfeld Imran Ahmed Burberry Jason voorhees Canada Issey WWW Rick Owens London Saleen Santa Rosa New York
Tim Blanks on the Menswear Spring 2020 Season | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

49:24 min | 1 year ago

Tim Blanks on the Menswear Spring 2020 Season | Inside Fashion

"This episode of inside fashion is brought to you by shopper fi plus from the first sketch to the retail floor. You need a commerce platform to help you scale at the speed of your ideas. That's why the world's fastest growing brands like Steve Madden chubby. He's the sports sack, and Jim shock rely on shopper fi plus to sell to their customers around the world. You'll be able to go wherever your customers are from New York to Milan to Instagram, and they'll make sure you look brilliant in every size from pop up shop to mobile. Join over five thousand brands on Sherifi plus at shop, if I dot com forward slash B O F. I've always thought that we'd be seeing a rebirth of the punk ethos and I guess I'm kind of still waiting for that gray. Green to me is, is men's was number one reason to be cheerful right now that's a nice way of putting Zana. I mean, the most beautiful thing that show was a was a up cycle. Cashmere coat good design sustainable design in the end the dealing with the in controversy. Fact that he would have hastened the whole idea what you mean that big more than life size, portraits all over the Grand Palais. Hi, this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business fashion this week on inside fashion. I sit down with our editor large Tim blanks to talk about the menswear season. That was Tim as usual traveled from London to Milan to Paris. He had all the inside scoops, and of course, the most authoritative perspective on this season's menswear shows, we also speak a little bit about the memorial for Karl Lagerfeld who passed away earlier this year. Probably one of the best attended memorials fashion industry has ever seen. So here's Tim blanks inside fashion. Tim blanks. Welcome back to London. Thank you. We're here for our seasonal review of the shows London, Milan, and Paris, overall thoughts, I was in foods, d- here, and there doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement of this is interesting. What, what, what, what I love was, I suppose the clothes that you would think of as being the close of sort of dreamers and idealists that, that maybe a significant. I mean, it seems that, you know, for the longest time, I've been wondering why when the political situation in, in the almost, the whole world seems to be so tense and and, and pressed at the moment that there's not more reflection of that in fashion why, why fashion why we shouldn't be saying stuff that's edgier rather than stuff. That's. Escape about escape, but I guess maybe things are so bad that, that escape is, is the preference right now. And the people's activists instincts are being exercised elsewhere, you know through. Extinction, rebellion and organizational suggesting that you raise that because my first question to you was was going to be about the fact that fashion reflects culture, on what's going on in the wider world. Like, how is that being shown on the runways in, you're saying that, really, you don't see a reflection of this, like intense political climate reflected directly on the on the catwalks. Well, I think it I think it's interesting that I during the week, a couple of people meant brought that brought raise that fact about session being a reflection and said that they were opting this, it seemed to be opting at the moment for fashion as a rejection rather than a reflection. And I mean that made for I think that made for some extremely beautiful collections. But, you know, I've I've always I've away. So that would be seeing. We'd be seeing a rebirth of, of the punk ethos than in the way in the way that punk and it took shape in the seventies in, in similar political and economic circumstances. And I guess I'm kind of still waiting for that. I wonder I wonder why that is. I wonder why that people are. Is that is that a, a sense of having already given up like just there's a, there's a general sense of like just people throwing their hands up in the air right now? Saying like this. I just feel like I have no control over what's going on. I have no impact, I have no way of shaping the environment around me, do you think that's kind of somehow, permeated, creative group you looking at a culture, which is just been which is just scattering into a million fragments? Yeah. And it's, it's, it's choosing way you make your stand. That's where do you fight your battles? I mean the most. Inspiring collections of the season. I suppose even I'm talking about escape and away. They didn't gauge in, in another way. I mean Rick Owens is collection. I thought was. Incredible for for what he actually brought to his Catt woke for the. What seemed to be the first time, what felt like the first time to me really direct stated a really direct activists sensibility engaged by the fact that his mother is Mexican, and she's getting old now, and she needs to be close to family in Mexico. And this man talking about building a wall between her and her family. So that becomes a point of principle in a way that it hasn't in the past, I guess. You said that it was his most direct men's collection in your review. What did you mean by that? The engagement, you know, he he was talking about his family. He was talking about his background, he and his roots, I suppose, and he had as take a group of as tech musicians, who playing along with the, the soundtrack. And they did a as tech blessing backstage am. He's, I think Rick is always been somebody who whose finger is on a primal pulse in. Oh, he's, he's you could you could almost imagine him designing in full thousand BC just as much as you can imagine him designing in two thousand eighty but this time there was, there was a direct. There was there was when he talked about his family, which he's never ever. He's never been talked about his family that that much to me on before his father translating for migrant workers. For example, for the local public law of some. I mean. These, these things influenced him, and he's never actually talked, you know, he talks about Larry Legaspi last season was talking about Larry Legaspi this season when he talked about as techs. I mean he's talked about ancient Greece, and ancient Roman agent Egypt was much more personal talked about Amway talked about the ticks. He's talking about his mother's family. Right. You know, the his is his own genetic roots, which is quite. It was very moving. I feel and other highlights. Well, you know, I thought completely opposite ends of the spectrum, I thought Kim Jones Joel, the show was funny. Speaking of the sort of majesty of antiquity, or whatever. But the what, what working with the artist Daniel option did Kim, the, the season was that there was a sort of monumental. There's always a monumental ISM there. But this time it was, it reminded me of that, that poem is mantius by pussy bis Shelley that the, the notion of of, of yet, saw Kane. But Kane, we're all shrugging our shoulders. Office. Because a romantic romantic, but also, the, the Daniela should making those huge D. I lashes down the middle of pink sand catwalk, you felt your be on another planet looking at the ruins of a civilization, which is what Daniel auction doesn't his work. He creates archaeological objects at things like Walkmans and transistor radios. Right. Mickey Mouse dolls in some makes an archaeology of our culture. And that's Kim is such a Tereza. He, he, he is so absorbed by the what, what might seem like the d'etre 'tis of the past, which he celebrates in his curation. Like I said my review, you know club fly or a twelve inch single becomes like the incredible cultural totem so working with Daniel Asham. It was almost like they were looking back at deals spring. Some twenty twenty from the distant future. And recreating something from artifacts, like Mr. Jules telephone Mr. Joe's clock, Mr. Joe's desk. Remember Stanley Kubrick did this at the end of two thousand one with that chamber where old time and space converged? And I really had that feeling I thought, wow, I really liked that somebody can do that, to me with fashion show and, and to bring that sort of scifi Shalam and, you know, the thing I have loved so much about fashion. One of the things I love so much about fashion over the last twenty five years when people used to talk about the influence of two thousand one on pop culture, the influence of Gatica, which is a movie that people talked about furiously for a while. And then they would stop talking about I bring it back, sometimes because it's at wonderful sense of a sort of distort Pia slash utopia. And then can made it also incredibly beautiful. And this is another thing that fascinates me when I'm looking at a collection like that the shit exquisite -ness of the craftsmanship. The, the incredible things that they do that they don't really need to do to, you know. I don't think that, that a guy walks into the deal band boutique in says, I'm looking for a. Pleated georgette, you know this. You don't know you want these things to you see them. I says he essence of fashion in a way I suppose, but will the of fashion. But, but did you get a sense from Cam, though, about apparently, the markets responding well to his TR, man? But you think the really walking in and buying those quite particular items, or are they buying the, you know, Claude are I've read on that the Asian market is actually, so fashion forward compared to its European equivalent that young guys actually do have an incredible appreciation of this craftsmanship in its. It's those two things in Kim in the jewel show that I thought were just mind blowing one was at pleaded georgette the Kabul blue on the organza, Boma jacket and the other was the Kyoto, KOMO craftsman beloved of. Would Crutchley who's used the same guy as collections who looks fabulous for Kim who hand painted a twelve ju design this guy makes three things a year, apparently, and he'd hand painted this? And so, you think well, there's probably people in France with twelve Zhou comes from who could do that, that sort of curly Willie patent on the jumpsuit but no, that's the coda guy to do it. So here's another question for you, because I know that you go to preview with Cam every season. And he gives you kind of an up close and personal. Look at all of this stuff. But do you think these details are perceptible from the runway vion Instagram image, which I will send all? Yeah. You know, I mean you might see on that on that on the on the old Ganz Bama, the design with a look like lungs that looked like big, Kobo blue lungs, which I thought, well, it striking. Yeah. It's. Striking image with a you know, that the God that is in those details. Same thing with Virgil in Louis Vuitton. He did the some blue zone from pleated on that was some micro pleated that it was quite dense. And when you when you ruffled your finger out of it was, like, you know, like stroking, Anaheim since, like those pin, tuck it. Yeah, but, you know, like micro Kentucky, again you see that coming down the cat will, you wouldn't have a clue that, that when you touch the kind of was like a beautiful flower, whatever that kind of detail is so strictly for the guy who buys buys a piece of clothing, which when you think about it is the essence of couture to the, the, the, the notion of the private pleasure. And I think that is important in fashion. Now, I think that is important for when you talk about escape that it's not a retreat really. Because it's an education. These things are in education. You not going back to something. You know, you'll going forward to something that you'll learning about and to me, that's a control. The couture sensibility reflected in menswear. It is like going to the most amazing Taylor in the world to have something made with the lining, you choose and your name embroidered in the suit. I mean, it's this whole thing that nobody else knows about except you. And I think that that's what these details. They're about their about the sort of there. There's something that, that making fashion so precious that you will not not wear that jacket next season. You will have that thing for ever-more. It'll be, you know, when Linda Evangelista head that yellow, John Galliano dress that she wore in the pinup show hanging at the end of her bed. So it was a first thing she saw every morning when she woke up, this is what these closed the like I put one of my Craig green jackets on a on a on a on the closet door on a coat hanger. So I could see. That every morning because it just you just look at it and you thank you just transported. You think another day? Wow fashion as inspiration in the era of Brexit. And Trump makes us keep going. I mean, it's an interesting contradiction that both Virgil and Cam have to or balance that they have to achieve righteously the clothes, as you say, they're like, very finely crafted, you know, they're very expensive, and they may resonate with this very sophisticated consumer, but at the end those details, you, you really need to be close to the close to appreciate them. But at the same time, they both succeed in creating this huge online response to what they do. And so, like they create these spectacular moments that translate virtual took over the plastic phen- and Kim created another one of these sets that just translates pretty well. So they're thinking both of the like instant impact. On Instagram, and then they're thinking about how do I create something that kind of feel special to the customer, when they engage with the pro it's not like it's particularly what's new is the? The technology old around capturing it. I mean, if we'd had Instagram when Galliano did that show at the opera gun, the mckays Qasadi show at the end of the ninety s he would have what's the word you know, when you bring Instagram to it's knees? You. I don't know. You break it you break, he would have broken Instagram. Yeah. There was so many moments rafts Simmons with models coming down the escalators, and the, you know, there's always been that I mean, what there is now is this, instant ability to, to see it, moving, you know, to see it as it's happening. I mean with the saline show last night, it was fascinating because I watched them on, I was kind of watching it on the phone is people were. Grand? Yes. And that was watching, what ching feed, and it was, the, the sense of occasion, was quite fabulous. I thought that that was proving once again at eighty Sluman is one of the muster show him in fashion. But the build with that thing coming up in a red card rate bollocks now David Lynch, red curtain rising. Yeah. The that this, this always been that. And I think what before you used to think. Oh, God, I wish everybody could see what I'm looking at right now. I wish people could see Nyman Campbell riding into the God of doodad on a front of steam engine. And, and now they can, you know, and all that magic is available to the world. And I hope it rubs off, but it's the rare designer that manages to create both the spectacle and the craft right. And I think that's the real trick. Now. Yeah. Yeah. You and I both really love the Craig green show. Should we talk a bit about that one? Yeah, yeah. Because Craig green to me is, is, is men's was number one reason to be cheerful right now that's a nice way of putting it. I just love the fact that there actually is a big audience. So what he does it makes me feel good about people because his clothes, not easy, and the and the, the thought processes. Behind them a challenging, and I mean, if you can, if you can if you can go where he wants to take you, I think you'll life is improved which is greats I mean, slowly could ever hope for when you're making art neom making people's lives better. Yeah. I mean for me it was. I don't it's like everything you saw in double because he had that mirrored runway is really striking. Yes. But also, there's just there's an incredible consistency in what he does, but he manages to interpret like it's that beautiful thing that the rare designer does, which is they have a signature, but it doesn't get boring. They're not trapped by well. You know, there was that moment there when he started. And I was I was on my hind legs with glee and crying, you know, really caught up in the emotion of the moment, and then I thought, who is he going to take this? And then there was one season which felt like a bit a bit of a. Season trading water. Now, my I have no hits numbers. I thought you had an elephant like. A memory like an elephant, Robin trunk. The no. That was this one moment. And then boom off to the races every season, since then, because there was a moment where you thought. Okay. What, how can you expand on that aesthetic, the robes ties, sort of sci-fi, work away, the, the, the kind of cabalistic sense of priesthood, or a communities, used to think of a community on a clifftop somewhere cut off from the world? And just invite you stick thing very realistic. And then the bare fees in the collection. What people talked about the children's crusade, you just thinking. Wow. There was just so much going on. And then what, what came in was incredible incredible. His just so smart. His ability to balance a close that you could call almost like everyday Craig green that women are drawn to as much as men with the other. Kind of cabalistic secret society science meets our Khanna kind of edge like this season, the whole thing about skin. I mean the clothes was so beautiful. But then if you he can he can take your some extremely doc and the notion of there was a sort of thing of flaying almost the some of the most beautiful pieces will actually skin were actually Representative of muscular that skinny being ripped off peeled away from I should say tumor slightly a Nado. I was sitting there thinking, oh, United Leonardo da Vinci, draw jewelers. Oh, yeah. Enemy style an atmosphere where he would flay coaxes and you get that same sense of questing with Craig that accuser city. A real light going behind things. I mean. Going behind the surface to to find a even using that song goodbye horses from silence of the lambs and, you know, in that scene in the movie buffalo, Bill is dancing around. With his skin suit on that he's making out of people, you know, and to have that to even have that as a as a as a suggestion is, is quite dark. But at the same time you looking at something which is just mind blowing beautiful, like there's something I think quite an Djelic about what he does and Anjelica about him it feels light. But angels and Jellicoe Amon demonic to sandals and demons, which is which is fantastic to experience, one of the other things that you speaking of crag, one of the other things that you said, in your Virgil review was that. There may have been a little bit of Craig green in there and a little bit of something else in there. And that we now live in this age of instant critique the other. That's the other side of Instagram. Everyone can experience the show, but everyone can critique the show. And that, you know, anytime you post anything about Virgil that these, like, huge crowds of trolls appear. Tell me about a lot of people were calling burchell out on this this season. The kind of main theme was well, he taken heavy inspiration from some of the stuff Craig has been known for, including those structures who's very unique structures that many of Craig shows of and the sense of and things tied together in the layering sing, and so two questions. One, what's your take on the divergent copying crag in the second questions? You know, how is it? How do you feel about the kind of online reaction? I will. If you're going to steal seal from the best, and this, I'm sure Picasso with somebody said something like that. But, you know. I will. I mean, and then something else says, I'm so glad everybody knows it's Craig green because it, elevates him wrestled, nicest recognizes that he is the originator originator not. It's very, it feels different to me when it is somebody like Kaiser Wong years ago when Nikola Jessica took something lock stock and barrel from Kaiser Wong, this little San Francisco's small San Francisco design. It's like Tom Ford city didn't even move the buttons and. That's different. Because when I when I feel it somebody who. You know, a stopping us, for example, who has no. Same way. I feel when Alfred Hitchcock used to steal from a rice, rye really loved. And nobody knew he who the writer was. And I used to think, well, you know where it stew? I mean, you know, the Jhelum stand up and say, I've been looking at the work of Craig green this season. And that was for everybody else to kind of make a point of point of that. You know, the very, very everything is so fluid now -solutely, everything is so fluid, the once you start saying who did this first urine, a European Hornets nest, because you can go on and on and on. I have been in fashion long enough to know that every time I hear an argument about who did this particular thing. I, I could say, well, actually, the person that your sang was originator of that actually got from this person, you got from that person, Mark Jacobs, would make that point too. You know, about the, the long, you know, that, that the long process from say dole foe to going back to Chanel Jacob Chanel got inspiration from fisherman's tweeds, and then it the, to find with things started is, is increasingly it's an increased rate. You saying that someone like Craig should see it as kind of. Recognition or flattery that, that, you know, his something that he may have potentially originated as being reinterpreted by a contemporary. He's an influence. He is an influence Craig green is an influence in men's where it's not only you don't only see the that something you could say is green in, in Wheaton this you feel him as an inspiration elsewhere. And thank God. I mean, thank God that, that somebody, somebody like him to be an inspiration. I think it probably. I mean Virgil is such an intensely polarizing person. Hence the trolls. Yeah. I mean, what what I think is bizarre sitting with him when he starts talking about the red balloon being one of his influences now. And I wrote that, that was the first movie I ever saw, so it has that place in my heart that, that, that it was literally, the first time I'd ever been in a movie theater, you told us that your grandmother took me to the century theatre and long climbing street in Auckland New sound. And it was a flea pit but we set. And the movie becomes something else in my mind. I looked up it was thirty minutes long and it was won the Academy Award for best original screenplay in nineteen fifty-six, the only short film ever to win an Oscar for his original screenplay. But so in my mind, it becomes something else, but he mentioned this, and I'm thinking, wow. I mean a handle this guy. Now about this movie apparently, it's super famous. I didn't realize that, but anyway, he praises emotional buttons that when he when he told that to me, I was like, you know, I've choked up, I thought just by thought I'm remember the whole event and going to see the movie really, really vividly, and then I posted something, and with the red balloon and then boom, it's like oh, you criticize anything anymore. You why don't you take Virgil down? I posted a picture of a red balloon for God's sake me a break, but that's why all famous people they just say, don't read the comments. They learned that lesson lying, explain, I think the, I think, what this exhibition in Chicago, which probably won't get to see you mean Virgils exhibitions exhibition interests me because he said, fashion is thirty percent of it. And if you could clarify, but everybody how his practice is huge. I mean, it is he has fingers in so many pies. He's almost octopodes. Yeah. Prolific isn't understate. Yeah. And fashion is not every thing I've wondering now that if fashion is clearly part is clearly distinct from the other seventy percent of what he does. I'm wondering what will happen to his work in fashion. Now, I felt the season in both of white, and we tell there was substantial progress. I thought I think Lauren didn't review as well that she did. Did. I think people were more positive about about him, especially with retail. Yeah. She talked about wrath coming back. Yeah. How is that? I loved the shining miss that show because I was in Paris, I loved that show. And it's so funny. I really feel like you know, I can in with elder on an is drifting away on an iceberg. When I read about what everybody else said about his scathing attack, when American capitalism will capitalism in general or corporates thought corporate saying, of course, every car corollary, which was it was like commentary on his time at a big American Corporation, f-. Yeah. If and and, you know, using the music that he used to using that this is not America, but from, but not the David Bowie version, the version, from the David Bowie musical Lazarus, which Michelle go always used to close. The, the Calvin Klein shows in, you would say the echoes. And this sort of little visual crossovers here in there. I thought maybe less Warhol, which was Calvin Klein more Raozan bug, which was this time, but the big connection, and I don't know if people made it because maybe this is not so many people who are so anal about fashion show, invitations than I really am is he did a show. Cool history of the world, two thousand five where he listed. Things that have made his that, that part of the history of his world. And it's very, very it's, it's quite a diverse list, and it's, it's it requires a little bit of research to work out, who everybody is. And then he did it again on this invitation. And so if you make connection there but because that was his tenth anniversary. And that was a huge ego for him. That was the when he did make the quantum leap from being to being the, the sort of icon, and this is his twenty fifth so the honest changed the list had changed edited it. He added some people, but he'd taken off Jonas, Salk who invented the polio vaccine, and who gave it away, who wouldn't sell it to big pharma, of course. And he kept Giordano, who was burned at the stake in sixteen hundred for saying that the earth revolt around the sun. Basically, he was a monk, but he was very he was assigned to monk and both of those people in the sense that they will idealist who. Who? Persecuted for their idealism in a way, I thought that was kind of telling that because ref is a very idealistic individual and the sense that a power structure had persecuted him. I thought that was. I power structure, said persecuted, these idealists said he was keen to talk about in context official, I thought that was quite a, an I thought that was quite an interesting point quite oblique. He didn't make a big deal. But you could see, you know, he's a very measured and reflective individual, I was thinking more. I got. So I got that, but I was also thinking more the joy of being home, the joy of being back in Antwerp and the joy of having the one thing to focus on that is him. I thought you know, reintroducing himself to his constituency his models. For example, the sense of, of to me that show felt like an reintroduction to. His early golden years and will have shows that I never sold to begin with. It's been quite some time since he's done a show when he wasn't simultaneously. Yes. Thank you. Jill Sander or or inclined? So wonder how that impacts of creativity? It wasn't it wasn't like a greatest hits or anything, but it was definitely like a sort of exploration of the world of raff. I thought it was it was while he is me. I thought it was quite uplifting. But. Not everyone. Well, maybe stope, yet, uplift might help avoid scien- speaking of America. There were some young American showing in Paris, Phipps, and Spencer Phipps, who actually interesting work to Reese for long time he thinks rational. Yeah. Came from new to show in Paris also address for a long time. And then Emily bodies I ever runway show. And well, you know, it's funny because Thome flipped Tom. Ford's big commitment as the new head of the FDA is to promote American fashion internationally. And we had those three they enjoying Kutu. We have two more Americans route Ralph rucci showing 'em tation of Shumpert, Cinta, Colin Daniel rose redesigning separately. So it's, it's, it's, it's coincidence. But there is a strong American presence Justice. Tom Ford is making the statement I thought it was that they were the three voices will very distinct. Cease. I mean sandal lack in New York. The, the design if a cease Mahjong has always had more the color and the color sense. And the Langa as always seemed to me something that is quite reflective, his time with Greece, and it stood out in New York. Emily's, Emily bodies clothes. I love the, the some of the most narrative pieces in, in fashion at the moment that best so fine. And they seem so fragile and they have such incredible stories to tell like Horon story is so incredible. And then I'm Spencer Phipps. His story is, is kind of frontier spirit, Americana quite hiking. Both hype masculine, what I got from his show, was sort of men living off the grid. You know, I mentioned that photographer Alex off to him who, who has done some amazing photographs of, of exactly that people who live in caves, and the painted desert and so on. And, and I don't think anybody really approached them as three thinking of them as a group, you know. The extreme individual unspent as any of shown in Europe, in Europe, anyway, but interesting, I mean, I looked them up, Emily bodies family, did come to America on the Mayflower and the Phipps family. I spent two said he's not connected with, with the Phipps family. But great, great, great, great, great, great, great someone or other Phipps was Andrew Carnegie's business partner in Philadelphia. I think I would mix Phipps and Bodey of very fine old, American names, anyway. That's just my little sort of when I do my research, in the old is another coincidence. This coincidence is all adding up. I thought her she wasn't ready for the runway. I think you really need to you need to sit with her clothes, and really feel them. And yeah. And, and, and that the and the ideal way to discover and Emily Bodey collection. I think would be to find a gigantic trunk and open it up. And they will these incredible. When I met her at the LVMH prize presentation thing that they do. It's really striking when she walks you through and you and you see the details up close. And she she and Spencer are both finalists. I think yes, yes, so the one thing that came up a lot in the as I was going through the LVMH prize finalists in, in Paris, during the women's collections was the theme of sustainability in, you know, one thing that you were just mentioning. Was that, that came up also more than usual in the shows this season? But from a creative standpoint, I think if you look at say, what's Allesandro Satory is doing Zambia with the Zambia capabilities fabric capabilities that the circularity that twenty five percent of the collection being recycled up cycled. Fiber. I mean, the most beautiful thing and that show was, was upcycle cashmere coat. That was just I mean you look at things like that. And you think wow, I mean that it's not just the future. It's the future of luxuries, if you drive, everything that the if people see that as, as added value, you know that this coat is made from old cashmere coat so jackets, whatever then it was all sportswear, and regenerated nylon. And I you know, the, the process is fascinating to me. I don't really quite understand it when he's telling me that how these things go around four times on the whole circularity. Yeah. 'cause product just announced today on that. They are starting a whole new project on reclaimed nylon from ocean plastics fishing nets. And so this idea of Lyon, okay? Us Virgin island. Exact they're going to phase it out. So this whole idea that sustainability starts in the design process, you know, that's that's really important idea because, you know, good design sustainable design in the end will he? Alexandra was also saying that, that on when you recycle and upcycle fibers become shorter and they become crunchier said the hand of the fabric changes, and that becomes a whole opportunity for a designer to work with. So he was he was. He crushed the crush cloth. He did these seized the did these cases that were made out of fabric that looked like it had been, you know, like head the crunchiness on into it like semi Ocoee, used to do the one, I wanted to talk about the other the other sustainability thing that, you know, in psychiatry collection. The t shirts will made from protein. By this bio biotech company called spy so is that recycled or is it by manufactured firemen effect? So it's not recycling. It's reasonable. It's, it's sustainable. It's not it's, it's, it's, it's that it's that company that dice, que was telling us about this is there is there is the sustainability, there was the up cycling recycling. But reuse, and then there's this sort of technology finding solutions as well. You remember those speakers from voices Andres, docs and not Cy. Yeah. Who spoke bio manufacturing. Yes. Yeah. You see it starting to actually. Yeah. Slowly permeate itself into into the design. Thanks, mentally that. Within a within a few decades. It's conceivable there'll be no. There'll be no land to graze animals on anymore said any meet people are going to be easing is gonna be grown meat, not farmed meat, and as in fashion. I think you, you would you'd see that already had. They think it's a sort of thing that adds that, like, I said, added value don't wanna finish this without talking about that low every show in Paris, which was pretty major the jellabas and the pesticide. Why did it have that affect on people? I'm curious everyone walked out feeling pretty pumped about that show. I think I think, and I didn't speak to Jonathan backstage that you did, what was he saying we was talking about hyper hyphen normalization, but I'm not sure that, that was particularly on point. I it's it really was a continuation of what he has been doing at at LA vie. The sort of. The Bolivia's is believed size as species spirit, the Bali era size ation of number, but more than I thought it was more, I was getting more Tanjeh's just because jellabas and but I love the way that he would put them with matching trousers. So you had something that was like suit called it a new suit. Arlen india. That is a suit. Yeah. It's called a cell VAR Camis. That's you know, that's how it yes. Yeah. I felt there was just such a joy in that collection and your court that pajama rather Andy on and using the soundtrack from Allison wonderland. You know, the sense he was talking about escape and romantic young nomads. But at the same time. It, it, it felt it felt real to me it actually looking at it. I thought I would that's sort of the way I kind of fancy dressing, not fancy dressing. But I would like to address. Yeah, it was this thought there's a lot of thought, there's this joy, there's the same kind of thing. He doesn't his own collections is sort of. Playfulness Anna, sort of there is a sort of fairy tale element in, and it isn't really. It isn't really tied to what you see anywhere else. I mean when I think he was talking about that, that sense of building your own world, which was with hyping normalization came. And that, that was reality is so out of control that you start seeing this fake, the, the sort of fake reality, which is hyper reality, which is what an could assume was about. And, and so in the end, you know, he's talking about fashion being a reflection being a rejection, Driessen note and said the same thing as well fashioned as reflection is rejection reflection this season. I think as long as designers make clothes that have that that is so engaging and inspiring the notion of rejection doesn't seem as Neolithic as it might otherwise. And we will we'll go on looking to them for uplift in these troubled times, probably the most talked about moment, joy. This wasn't a fashion show though. Oh, should we talk about Carl's memorial for a minute? Well, because that was again, it was quite a polarizing event. Yeah. What did you make of it? Well, you dealing with the incontrovertible fact that he would have hastened the whole idea with what you mean, the big more than life-size, portrait's all over the Grand Palais just it was everything he'd asked for that wasn't, you know, everything everything everything he had asked for. He didn't want to didn't like an old Viking put him in his long button pushing that way. I think I think a lot of people in the industry we're looking for a way to officially remember him. So it was more for the mourners than for the mourned and sad for the people who are left behind behind it hasn't said for the dead purse. Yeah. Yes. So I think that that was for everybody to. Feel good about how much they missed call. It was like a variety show. I mean it was like turn to turn turn. It was quite funny like that. I mean he is Tilda Swinton doing Orlando. And he is a Tango dances. And here's a his a little buck doing his dance to reach you Sakamoto and this. Helen Mirren doing a little routine this Tango dances, again. And, and there's Farrell and it was just like, you know, like a. Like a variety show. Yeah. And the, the connection to things that, that you loved about Carl was was not was perhaps, a little more tenuous. But then how would you have that when he was on screen talking in some of the amazing things he says some of the pointed little asides, and some of the just the, the, the for 'isms that does dropped out of his last, what I realized is that the first time I interviewed him, he used all these expressions with me, and clearly he just use the same expressions with everybody, because they when they were coming up in all of these different sessions. Like I never looked for I'll never looked back look forward. If you look past the future is second. There's just like these things that he must have said over and over again. But I think the best thing was the Andrey oh, of course that was so fun where he was breaking up when he was doing that. Yeah. I hope they released. So just for that bit at the end 'cause that was Carl and his most unguarded on varnished, like no when no one ever saw few people saw him that and it was so beautiful to see that kind of humor and vitality and just like. Was doing the samba with sandy, Bryan. I was really cured. I mean, what, what can you say that hasn't really really what can you say that has already been said about Kellogg held in the last few months, there is very little left to say and I'm not sure that, that memorial edit particularly much to the conversation though, everybody talked about it. Yeah. And everybody was there. And it was fascinating to see the interplay of the, the, you know, the power struck the various power structures of fashion politics into weaving there. Mr. Valentino, Ralph, Lauren. Yes. Sitting in the front row was sitting there thinking who else would the fashion industry? Do this fall. I don't think anyone is going to get back kind of. Do you think they're sitting there wishing that they would perhaps there's no shortage of egos in this industry as we know? But I think I mean you know why, you know, apart from those emotional moments at the end what I really took away, which is like, wow, what a what a life lived. What a know what a vital. What vital carrot was just like a sliver now, but you still just got this sense of his like insatiable curiosity and contribution. There was another fifty years that we didn't even get a glimpse of xactly that event. Exactly. Well, Tim, we've run out of time. That's ran out of brain cells. That's all inside fashion this week. I'm an Ron, I'm Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion here with our editor at large Tim blanks. It won't be too long before you hear from us again because Tim and I are headed back to Paris next weekend for the Kapoor shows. And if you're lucky convince him to sit down with us, again, tell us all about his unique perspective of everything that happens at fashion week. That's all for now. See you next week and by. If you enjoyed this conversation, you might also be interested in joining the OS global membership community. B O, F, professional are members receive exclusive deep dive analysis in our daily digest Email as well as unlimited access to our archive of over ten thousand articles, our new iphone app special print issues, and all of our online courses and learning materials from B, O, F education. For a limited time, only, offering our podcast listeners and exclusive twenty five percent discount on your first year of an annual bureau F professional membership to get this special offer. Click on the link in the episode notes select the annual package and enter the special code podcast twenty nine nine at checkout. We hope you enjoyed this podcast. Please leave us a rating, if you did. And don't forget to share it with your friends.

Paris Craig green Instagram founder and CEO Virgil Tim blanks Kim Jones Joel Spencer Phipps Rick Owens Grand Palais Emily Bodey New York Carl Imran Ahmed editor Karl Lagerfeld Steve Madden Tom Ford Colin Daniel London
FASHION HAGS Episode 79: Bye Bye Onkel Karl. But also Good Riddance.

Fashion Hags

1:39:36 hr | 1 year ago

FASHION HAGS Episode 79: Bye Bye Onkel Karl. But also Good Riddance.

"Right. I'm Abby, I'm Evan. And I'm Katie, and you're listening to the fashion heads, we love to love and love to hate off things fashion. Hey, hey, seventy nine hey, ho, ho ho. Say it's us. We're back redeeming stuff. I just realized that we don't like we don't say, I'm Katy, and I'm Evan and Abby due to people to do that we need to do. It's an era prerecorded it isn't intro. Right. Okay. And our voices sound different enough that I don't know if it's an, and I guess when we're like, what are you obsessed with Abby? Okay. Each that. Right. Snow for doing this wrong. Leave us. You're not podcast. Was it? Fuck there was one. Oh, yeah. This is the fashion eggs, especially. Oh, no you push. When you start calling. It was Neal Brennan and Moshe casher who standups further name of their TV. They're plus they don't have it anymore, which is them shooting the shit and sometimes interviewing hip hop people because they're both super into hip up. But the voices sound exactly the same Neal Brennan and Moshe cash. Yes. I don't think we have that only. That's an issue. No, probably not. That's good. You just keep talking shit at the end of the day. We have love him opinion. So who cares? Okay. Came out of this year. We all stand by each other. And our opinions unless we need to have a little little calling in. Not a calling out. But that's fine. And I'm sure the person called out or called in would hopefully be graceful about it at least while we're recording. There's been so many flipped table. The fuck out. Eggs in faeces. Yeah. There's been near violence. On things you guys were back. Sorry about the delay. I was sick. I'm still fucking sick. I've been sick for a thousand like worse every year getting worse every year. That's true. It is it's almost like nature wants to rebalance skills. Antibac-? That problem selves, self home. What a disaster. Oh boy. I in back Sonate it. So. Everyone in this house, including the dogs vaccinated. So we're getting our house my problem, but is called is just been Ramey. Dry geeking your bit don't care for it. One bit open springs coming supposed to be like sixteen degrees next. I know I know I bought a little parka. And I have people times, I know every time the sun comes out. I was like oh. I mean, it's cold that great because I wouldn't be able to use Fargo for like, I guess we're days, I guess were tanked-up. It's just abroa-. I really like that. That's a look long kneeling just below the new. That I live in Alberta for like twenty five years without a length down coat. I don't mind. I can't go back while they also didn't exist. I'd never I mean, we never they never unless it was like a big wool like. Like, huge weird weird thing. Heavy super heavy at what kinda gone. He wasn't making them earn. No face was making. There's new Canada goose back then. Excuse me. Jim regretted winter coat. Anyway. So we're getting we're back. Thank you for your patience soil, relate bub-bubba here. Thanks for listening. What's going on? What is so we're just happens since we recorded as much happened. And you were in San Francisco vacation. America, california. I I'm in California. It was interesting. I I had never been anywhere in the states except for New York for a day and then Seattle for like total three days. So spending a week in states interesting, right? I was lucky enough to stay in the mission district, which is where the Spanish, colonial our Spanish colonizers landed and sort it all of the Catholic missions. There is there's a huge indigenous population our indigenous presence in not neighborhood in San Francisco. So is really interesting to to be amongst like a different kind of energy with indigenous people people who can it's interesting because with this this border that divides us by and large. Most like most people I've met from the states who are indigenous identify as an American. I, you know, the the the an American identity is not separate from their being nuts. I don't think it's the same in Canada. Like, I'd it's interesting like obviously I in Canada. Right. Marica you become American. And then when you come to Canada, you bring everything you have with you also Canadians. Chef that comes less your native. Bring with you. It was already Taylor. We take it. I mean like the multicultural project Canada is a smokescreen for how kinda became a country kind of basically all it does and gives Canada. Good moral around the world. Redirect the attention. You know? Yeah. But it was it was really interesting. I mean growing up here in Canada, obviously knows Canadian like if I I was never you. Never you never. It's like, there's not this idea this pervasive idea of the Canadian identity, you know, like even within Canada by and large the Canadian identity is kind of like undefined, it's intangible, you know, you you don't instantly think of things when you think American you think it's like a brand, you know, it's a global brand in kind of the same thing in Canada for defer for different reason Gus, but yeah, and it was beautiful, and I tried my best Sedgwick myself on the history of of San Francisco because I was there, and I was enjoying the beauty and enjoying the culture and looking out at the going on hikes like being in nature and like looking out onto the Golden Gate Bridge, and like all these beautiful coastal passageways. Like what like I always try and think now what existed here before this existed and like who were who? Was here before all this. What was your thousand years? Exactly. Like, what would like then it's like trying to strip away all the buildings and just like put up trees, or whatever it's supposed to look like and. Yeah, it was. I think like city like San Francisco is similar to Vancouver in this in the context of like like nature and city kind of intertwine. It's not the same as New York where it's a concrete jungle or the same Seattle where it's a concrete jungle, even more. So. Yeah. And weird. And yeah, it's like it's it was interesting time you like it's an old city as far as North American. Yeah. It's been a long seventeen hundreds. Yeah. Yeah. And just like it. And also like now that looking into the history of how San Francisco became a city in how California joined the union, and then what was done after that. And like seeing how swiftly that project like unfolded. And then like, yeah, it's just like how many people like this is all estimates, obviously. But it's mated that like five hundred thousand people died within twenty five years cheeses, Christ him disease, feminine war, another violence. Thanks, sure. Jesus christ. Yeah. Colonization the constant moving forward. Yeah. Changing week beast. But you're going to drag shows did not go any show. Get to go and see my friend Quinn's plows there. Visiting my friend Quinn. Thank you for the hospitals. Pointless, the podcast, and they're in this amazing. They're in this amazing show called to sing America. And then it was it was great to be there and be educating myself from all this stuff. And also having a great time and going to the jury. Shit and like all this stuff and like paying those respects as well. To those people again, one of the oldest one of the oldest. Yeah. Like district strong. A lot of a lot of movements started out of that out of the Castro district whether or not they were inclusive of mice whatever yet. I still think that the that the that the reverend's needs to be given of course. But we went down to this great show, and it was based off of Langston Hughes poem called to sing I to America. And it was called I too sing America. And it was merger of monologue and spoken word and song and dance. And it was so beautiful about the the experience of the American Diaz brower like the. The the different parts of. Of American identity, and and in this production, people of color were put to the forefront. And then there was like a couple of most of like I'd say like ninety eight percent of the cast was POC. And then within that they're like a few white folk. But like the white people didn't they were part of the harmonies part of the band, but they never really like had a monologue or how to solo in a song. They were kind of just like there as a support the no thing that was really interesting to see as well and not have way never has four grounded. And then it was just so great there so many like nods to to contemporary and historical figures like Langston Hughes, and then to be on say and to Nina Simone, and and all of these amazing artists in like, and what they had to say with their art and lent, bringing of course, back into the today's context, and like of what it means to be a person of color in America. And it was really beautiful. I saw it twice. So good. The first time I can watch. I wanted to hear everything again. Yeah. And then I also moved into a new place when I got back. So I got back. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I got back performance for the first time in fifteen years. I go to dancing into injury. I broke my toe. And I pack my place and four days moved. Thank god. I was like all like plan to have movers like. Good for you. And through money that problem, which is nice to people to do. And then like all in my own my own space day. I've a fog to get into my building the first time I feel. She she. Boozy? Like, it's like a brick building. It feels very that. I'm that girl girl who lives in the threes view. Now. My beret in the air. Yeah. I mean, entrepreneurs small business owner one bedroom apartment. Renter in Vancouver. Reluctantly sewing in your underwear underwear boy during land aware cooking in my underwear. Great. Oh, man. That's so exciting -gratulations. Big step stops time. Yup. Knows just to. To again, like research it yourself in a space create your share, your tradition traditions, and like find your Bodega you have to find like your take oh place like Goto. S which covered. Yes. Stop is the better about at because that's a big different area. Important very important. Let's very exciting. Yeah. New homes for things in your house. Exactly. It's like the first time cooking really that is not only that needs to be there. When we moved. We moved things in the cupboards for at least two months, we like, I know you put this here. But I think it should go over here. Try to for here. Move back over there. You'll settle in letting no kitchen shit, obviously. Because everyone was Cussing much cook all of my domestic talents line sewing. If you if the if that's still counted as a domestic I dunno, trim, probably is, unfortunately, probably. Sys- white men the root of all evil. Neven drill. Thank you for producing and podcast. He knows he's not also white men. Remember, the call I will call in. I'm gonna called out there for that. One. He's cool say Jess. Yes. It's fine. Yeah. Can't joke about it. Then where are we? Yeah. Seriously. But I also have a couple of very exciting events. I'm gonna talk to about later in our possession. Obsessions kale. How about you? Be nice. Yeah. It's been a rosins recorded. But I haven't been up too much was telling these two upstairs will spare everyone the details. My dog is getting older fifteen in buddy bodies falling apart. No, major issues, and it's totally fine. But there's been a few trips to like he would go to the vet once a year for his shots and his checkup. And that was it unless there was some like weird like injury or something like he cut his foot or something, but his whole life. He's been so healthy. And then now it's just like, oh, yeah. That's not that doesn't look great. That's not working properly. Oh, I should get that looked at. So there's been a lot of that. So he's great. He's fine. But it's a reality. Check. So I'm trying to mentally prepare myself what that's going to look like in the next little bent. But you see me like I said, he's fine. You know, pretty slow down things are working as they used to and sleeps all the time. And he's he's got one eye and back legs. Don't work so L anymore, and he's just a pirate. News departure tired. But he's always asked his eating. Yes. Is he sleeping? Yes. Is he pooping? Yes. Will the niece fine? It's like really the benchmark is e seem uncomfortable. No daily painkillers. Yes would help. But. Yeah. Just watching, you know, not to be a bummer, but like one of the great loves of my life die in front of me every day a little bit fun. Yeah. He's not there yet. I forget I think maybe I've seen before these George carlin's is when you buy a pet you were purchasing small tragedy. Because you're guaranteeing poetry. Yeah. You're guaranteed. This was going to end badly because the dog will not live you, and you will see a die. Get a bird next time. They lose your Hortus or something still it more. It probably loves turtles be fine. It's totally fine. We'll just live on the main floor of the house up the stairs. Door. He'll be fine can never get too far toenails online can make tiny tiny huts his birthday thing. Yep. To make them for the dog ear hats. Yes. Anyway, let's make very exciting. Just, you know, mortality staring. Katie's recovering. We're covering I'm chipping away at this booking inside your body. But I'm everyday is like, ooh. Feeling better than it did yesterday. So that's good. Are you go even if it's just that like ten percent counts? Like you said upstairs like oh. If you go into the doctor, well, no because they're gonna say, well, it's a badge salt. Just get some rest take some drugs to people who had an ear infection for like a month in the was a cold. So maybe all. If by like Friday, you're not I'm not shape and fighting shape, then I will go and make sure this is I think it's like how how it was in like someone's was another mom friend of mine who just shared it. 'cause she saw in her pediatrician's office talking about how like if you have a fever for more than three days. See a doctor if you have a cold for more than ten days, see, a doctor, and if your cough can last twenty five days to whatever you're like great. Yeah. All things that don't have curious things you get over it with her. And like all these things. It's like, yeah. He's got gotta he's just 'cause I was sick. I got better. And then I thought I was out of the weeds, and then I did a couple of yoga classes, and I did like a really intense workout like one of the most intense workouts? I've done in years, probably sure and a couple of days after that. I just fell right off. Again. So I think I bit off. He's just a little open to it. Right. Yes. Yeah. So I think that is why not everywhere cesspool of germ. I know I know I started a new job. So with all of these other people, it's a new environment. Yeah. When I started there like, it's basically like a daycare so catch wash your hands and. Will is ready to go. But other than that. Good yesterday. We got tickets last minute. Chris got ticket seven those. It was so fun so fun. It was really fun. We didn't dress up because we didn't prepare and have enough time. Whatever. For those who don't. A big red rugby tournament and everybody all the audience dresses up in like Halloween costume full on. Yeah. Cost along shoes. And I don't know why in order to get it all dresses army guys, you're all dresses brides, or your old whatever there was a lot of pregnant nuns. Lot of drinking. There's a lot of drinking's. It's it's rugby people. So it's all like party comedy, the British British results wherever British gene pool. So. There was a lot of drinking. We did not participate that heavily, but we sat in the route the group of people that we got the tickets with it was my inlaws. Basically, they got the tickets, and they went on the Saturday and Sunday, but it was with a whole bunch of Albert Einstein's. We were see. See about X. There are ways a really like you to fleet who are needed Kroupa super troopers right across the stadium with like, very polished put together very put together, very serious. There were lots of Canadian lumberjacks it's Canadian event. So there's lots of the buffalo. Somebody posted big thing. It was maybe a bunch of people just as lumberjacks I saw it with beards and rent plan shirts and fake axes. There's a lot of that though. There was pregnant nuns. There was. Happens over weekend and many games are played in one day. Yeah. So the way it works is. Names or something seven at halves or something and the guys on the team there's seven per half. I'm sorry. Seven players per team, seven minutes per half, the games really fourteen minutes of play plus whatever actually like finish the basically finish that play. They don't cut the play in the middle of or they don't cut the game in the middle of of a play. But it sounds like a fun. So it's really really funds to is really speedy. And you gotta pay attention like hockey so much is because it's fast and things happen. And you don't have to be a rocket. Scientist figure. It's really simple. The ball cannot move forward. Cannot be passed forward or to gotta make sure the guys slightly behind ninety so washing his quite dynamic like it's really cool to see them move across the field because they're passing the ball sideways and all running kind of like on a diagonal, and you got to rate in the right place, and you can't get to our head. Because then you're guy can't pass to you. Because he can't pass it forward. And the tackling is like I mean, it's a full contact sport drug. It's not like football where there's four hundred guys on this on each on the field just into each other for ten seconds. And then the play stops for twenty minutes. Yeah. Check them for brain injuries. And then move on the show plays from a rule book. That's two hundred pages long. Not. You're just going on your playing the ball around score. Yeah. Someone from scoring totally is really it's a really cool game. I really it was very enjoyable. Yeah. It was really fun. I would highly recommend if you haven't if you haven't gone to see it go, and yeah, it was great. Hosted here like it was never it was the thing when I was a New Zealand years ago and. So I had heard about it from like you're like literally almost twenty years ago has been up there. And we're one of where one of the main team. Yeah. And they actually declined walls team is the women's. Yeah. I'd love to see a women sevens. Yeah. Get some traction that would be cool. But all these like, the new Zealand All Blacks team are fucking beautiful. Every single one of them are good looking at these real short shorts which is really nice ain't angry at that. Not only that they have little short little necks mostly because it's all traps. Yeah. Top-heavy there. Awful fucking vast. You got so much power. And they lift these guys up to like Cal. Yeah. Yeah. Jason momoa was there. He's shooting. So he got some time on the big screen. Yeah. Anyway, it was good. It was really fun. I would would do again. I don't know how much money I was been for the tickets, but I didn't shave her dance. So I would go. Yeah. It was fun. It was nice to do something different for sure. Good anyway. So yes to raise not on brand for us. Let's move on not at all. No, no, not at all. But what is on brand is loving and bitching at the same time. Which is what we're here to do today. We're a little bit behind because we had to have a little bit of a delay. But we're gonna talk Carlaw grefell today, we figured he deserted. He deserves zone episode especially now that he's no longer with us. If you haven't heard Carla butters dead. And you didn't know that any listen to this podcast. I mean, maybe look into some maybe to quibble search, just business fashion. Just give that a scare just daily Email. It's fine. But yeah, we've talked about many many times he's been in. We've all known of him three of us for our whole life is very very long time. Long before he started actively branding him saying. But there it is. But yes, there's bad. He died a couple weeks ago and people figured something was up because at the couture show. He wasn't there. It wasn't there. Take his final battle. And that was like the first time ever. Yeah. That was in January. And they realized that weird. He's oldest back. They didn't show up. He was quote, unquote, eighty five. Yeah. Who knows what that me? But he was notorious for lying about what you're he was born so somewhere in the nineteen thirties. Sure. I've heard nineteen thirty nine and I've heard nineteen thirty one. And I've heard a few in between. Yeah. So he was always super cagey with his answers to like somebody was straight up. Ask him. I've seen two different ages for you. And he's like, what do you think you'd have some like deflected diatribe about how age doesn't matter and being h Lewis and all this stuff and. Chanelle woman. Yeah, he's the planet and yadda yadda, yadda. So there's been a lot of talk about him. And it seems. Pretty clearly delineated for me that all the people who are in the fashion industry are praising him and people who are not in the fashion industry. We're talking about a piece of garbage, and you know, what? Bunga was a bit of both. I was talking to somebody recently. I was trying to think of in another industry people trying to break through with this with this particular podcast about how like weirdly nation. Esa Terek that the industry can be in its very closed off and installer. Don't know then we're not going to tell you going to ask because we're not going to tell you. But I was trying to request. Fizz. No price. You can't afford. But trying to figure out in another industry someone comparable to like draw an analogy of like he was the blank of the fascist trying to find like a movie person. And there's no one that I could think of that would fulfill the same lung Javadi, output, charisma like Jagger. Maybe I think of someone close someone people would argue has shit for twenty years, maybe like whereas. Balk load of stuff. No kind of thing. But. Put they make one movie every every five years. Yeah. And he does that much and also they are way less. Controversial. Yes. Exactly abs- trying to think like the they're not raging misogynists like raise like coral way. Other is is bec- and all kinds of things. Sure. Oh boy. Yeah. Trying to figure out somebody who had. Yeah. Who had a career that long who consistently work that long who was influential who changed the industry, you know, like people have done two or three out of these things. But to do all of the things that he did. I don't know of anybody else. Maybe there's someone in like, you know, are some like, I'm not aware Playtex car, like car culture. An an architecture something who you know, work. But I think. Breakneck pace as you said movies. Take a long fucking time to make you make one and you work five years on that one project and then in. Yeah. Needs to be the pace, and it needs to be the expectation more. So because in fashion, there's the expectation that you need to always putting something new to be seen as relevant and that was whole thing. Never completely fed into never looked back. Only look forward. Maybe someone like not with work with openness how I like someone like Garry shandling, maybe, but he didn't have the same output. Maybe like in volume of work. I don't think like you say like the. Injured like if you talk about just the comedy world, perhaps, but the larger entertainment world, Carl did the larger. I see. Left is an icon. People throw these words around, but this is actually him. He started working in like the fifties straight out of high school for peer Bowman, which is one of the pillars of fashion. You know back then he him in wire sell. We're rivals for years and years and years and years and years on many levels on personal and professional any levels. And he just as this is the only thing he's ever done, and he had consistently done it at the highest possible level for the years. Yep. He's been designed he got to Chanel in the eighties. I think and but he was already offend. He's like in the seventies. We'd already been designing for Fendi for all those times for all those years. Before that working for other people in other houses, and then he got his own for funding. And then he started working for Chanel. Totally changed Chanel Schnell was selling perfume one perfume. Yeah. One brand that was it in the eighties. She was dead after Coco Chanel died and even before she died. They weren't doing anything of interest. And he came in. It was seen as like the brand for ladies. Yeah. It was. It was ladies lunch. So old rich ladies who were plaid or tweet. That's it. And the only reason they were is because they worship no those it whereas he came in. And I mean, part of the things that drives me crazy is that this collection. He'd be eighty looks especially Sonoma, and it's all the tweet, essentially. Facing fucking every time. On the one hand, it can be really boring, but on the other hand the slight variations, the he was able to consistently deliver on the Chanel suit is mind blowing these tiny MAC, like tiny switches and variables that he would just play with shape size, proportion and color and all these details in Raleigh was his mind who would play with it. And sure sometimes who he would sketch over to some body anyway. And and way. Yeah. Like, I think it's a feat of engineering because there's some shit that goes down on the show runway. It's like that drug that jacket by any means necessary. Should nauseous not silly on the human body. There's some kind of padding and infrastructure and not jacket for that to sit the way it does. And like not as a testament to all the women who helped create his collections slaved thousands of hours in the workshops to make his weird drying that he you know, barf out because he just wake up and literally just draw one hundred thing. Yeah. This is what let's just how his brain works. It was literally on another level. And I don't know anybody else or I haven't heard of anybody else who sisterly. Just would output that amount of stuff all the time. And to be so consistent legacy. Like the Blair said it's boring because they all look the same. But then as you pay attention. They're not all the same. Yeah. When you know the Chanel in the eighties Schnell in the nineties. We're not the same night even close, and they're not the same as the as it was then either. Now like them the number of of reinventions, he's done Schnell while somehow maintaining the Chanel the brand. Yeah. Is pretty insane. It's you're right. It's unnatural really know figure it what else look at every other. And that's. The other. Should he did like every other house that of that caliber of the Chanel caliber Dior and seller on diva she she they've had rotating door of creative directors since they originally creative directors left, and I and I guess and then Carl has been like the only one is maple to maintain. I don't know his his vision. And and make sure that that vision is is leading to the success of the brand is a whole not just in the categories that he has direct hand in. Yeah. Which is like the turing ready to wear the accessories and whatnot like it still it transcended into perfumes, and and and Chanel being able to have the the resources to buy up pretty much every tour workshop in Perez shoemakers makers, the the embroidery like they all work for this person. This one person's vision singular vision, and like mastery of of a code of ethics that was was established over a very short period of time by. By chanel. It's it's it's it's I don't know. Of course, like you need to tip your hat to that as a creative. But then there's one thing to him just having the like the creativity tomato make that last. But also like there's more to having a job at that level than just doing your job. There's the politics there's the nepotism, there's the, you know. She's saying there's like, and he managed to do all that at an extremely high level as well and maintain like like he wasn't unseeded is designed doesn't ears and then he moved on. Now, he was done on it. No one knows no young up starts to come. And it was decided so you know, what I think you're done he managed to keep those relationships to keep him himself employed. He immortalized himself while he was still alive. Yeah. In many in many ways, he he created such an oral round him that made him untouchable. And and I think and power and irreplaceable the 'nigma. Yes. Wrapped in Chanel SU exactly and I think that that had a lot to do with. Why people were so quick to forgive his his shortcomings as as a human being as a yes. Man of a certain generation. Yeah. Overlook all the other thing that it promoted and. Yeah. He it's like all those other powerful guys who find themselves in situations that they would rather not be because they've been caught doing something. They shouldn't be between or they've said the wrong thing and. Crow about it or whatever. Right. But he he managed to escape all of those things. Well, he also employs thousands and thousands of people. So I mean, you can't he singularly did that for all of the reasons that we've just stated he couldn't be replaced and if he was replaced, and it would then right? Yeah. The industry literally. Then what do you do while you ignore those those just keep things status quo because all that he broke? Yeah. It's not. I mean, everybody in the industry knows that fat people aren't welcome here. Just getting pulled in general. He's a crazy old, man. So let them, you know, yellow fat girls, you know? Yeah. And so he would get a pass he somehow managed to balance it in a way, not for everyone. But for the people who needed to be for sure the people who didn't care that they were Elian eating. Yeah. No. Because these people already don't buy their product or they're not. Yeah. It's all the other rich white dudes that employed him that kept him employed. That are the heads of these Jain multinational corporations who own these big brands. They're not being insulted by him talking about fat people in sweatpants at home eating chips watching Chanel shows. That's not them. They are rich white dudes. And they've also probably covered up things that were a lot worse before. Thing. You know, let them say whatever crazy should he wants to say about a Dell because he's a crazy old, man. And Adele will be fine. Yes. We'll be fine in adobe finding they can both continue to live Schnell. And Adele will both be fine. Oh, I was listening to an interview it was a bizarre fashion them, very briefly out the top, this is a fashion. Imran Ahmed who runs business fashion was interviewing Tim blanks. We was one of the most famous fashion journalists. He's been working my entire life. I've always known Tim blanks in his British accent coming through my television, on fashioned file in fashion television and stuff, and he has known Carl he'd interviewed him. Hundred hundreds of times over the last thirty years or so, and he had a very interesting perspective. And my, of course, by no means of my apologizing condoning any of his behavior, but Carl was one of the few game in who escaped the eighties and the aids crisis and seventies. And there's everybody there was a really interesting. So how much did that affect him and turn him inwards? And also he was for many many years not he was a sexual being he never had intimate relationships. He never had boyfriends or girlfriends or partners, or you know, he had people that were rumors of interest in. But that was about it because he had one lovers. Life back in the day in the eighties. And and he never recovered. We've talked about that on a previous episode. Yeah, we talked with some of the document. Here's something we watched. He just literally just like shut off that part of his brain. And channel that energy into his area. And that is all he ever did for the rest of his life. There's an interesting podcast the cut on Tuesdays under guys. Listen, I listened to build one about that. Yeah. They talked about that Tim blanks in that the whole the aids epidemic, which is something. You would never align with our fellow. Oh, it was a really right? It was worse in perspective. But of course, he was in the middle of it. He was in New York City. He was in London. He was embarrassed during these Hugh he was a studio fifty four like he was in all these peop- with all these people in that age bracket doing all those things probably all those places, but he just never associated him. Maybe just that that too young for it to right? Like the time. We were born those all yeah. Whole lifetime. He has been a sexual Illini sexual men. Yeah. He's been a caricature of himself. Yes. I think that's that. That was that was part of what? Lead led to this this where it it was so easy to be to to throw to throw the side, his his indiscretions because like you can't really take someone seriously when or you're not supposed to I guess he used the the fact that people didn't really take him seriously integrator contacts outside of the fashion world where everyone. Yes, was so ready to lick his boots because he was held up his Schinas in in in many respects like that that move of his to to create such a persona was was a armor against a lot of his. His less than I don't know. Humane opinions about certain groups of people in the world. That he didn't take that. He wasn't a part of Bill Cunningham said fashion is the armor that we use to protect ourselves from the world. And that was he had. Machine behind him to. Yes. And he's timed specific time to really well to the nineties came around, and fashion was becoming more of an everyday thing for people and were acceptable to people and celebrities or now on the covers of magazines, and you know, the name of the designer at whatever fashion brand he was the first he was driving that train like he was on top of it. And he somehow figured out that if he like around it was the late nineties when he lost a bunch of weight, right? And he was feeling a lot one hundred pounds or something ridiculous and then rebranded himself into the Carl. We've known for the last twenty years right in the century and he managed to. Take a persona or whatever it is called a personality that he had slowly been building over the over the last century of the twentieth century, and then turn it and just fuck in crank it up to eleven right and just like embrace it and dive head into being a cartoon. And he was in on the he is dry is the joke. He knows it. He's the one he that's not the punch lines and toxin down. And he says, you're welcome take the paychecks watching the brand do well. And I mean, it's not an accident is obviously as you say like there wasn't. It's one of the reasons that he's remained that that high-caliber of not high-calibre necessarily, but designer that's independent of this. But he's remained a guy to be talked about. Yes. Because of of that caricature that he created of himself or it's a weird line to try to figure out. How much of the stuff did he actually believe joy at some point? When you're that six. Age for his age, his cultural upbringing his financial status. I think a lot of it would just be what rich old German dude would think. That fat fat people immigrants and women, and whatever all these wonderful things that he would say about people who were not him. And then also him being fucking camera hook. Yeah. And just loving having a microphone putting his face and saying stupid shit, and they're having everybody talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. And then having that that that cult of all these. Yes. People around him to write like he has not lived in the real world for fifty years. No. He is not live in the world that everyone else lives in what's. We'll we'll Ferrell's character in Zealander gun to Mugabe to. Yes, there's a certain you can see where that inspiration. It is not elite because he he only he was so. The work. He did was so specific. For a long time until you get into diffusion, lights and stuff and club rations, and that kind of make things go snaky a little bit. But he managed to stay on brand firm self, but he worked in such limited sphere that he worked with the same people, and he talked to the same people. And he, you know, he didn't ask anybody for anything. You just told you, and what are you going to say, no, no agree? No, you knew it. You figure out a way. Even if it means you're taking to read is back to back for fitting in New York City or whatever bullshit comes up. You do not say no to him to part of him to move it. The senate. Insure something. Yeah. One centimeter. That's all we need is one centimeter like seeing that shit and all these documentaries with him. And he did he made sure to do it in front of the camera for every single documentary of him doing fitting in that. Yes. And I don't know. It's just. And the bus tumor, and you know, like, it's it's part of the whole pant like anti of it or whatever like just like showing that that's how much he cared for the customer. If it wasn't if it needed to be one centimeter shorter. They would do it. Or was it just like him throwing his weight or around because he could no one's going to notice if that's Curtis centimeters longer or shorter. Or whatever the hell, it is whatever minute spend dozens or maybe hundreds of hours getting that skirt to be whether it'd be that. Yeah. To be literally perfection which matched the drying. Probably that. He did issue minds, which which happens all when you're that high level of there's that many people for whom like their income relies. Yeah. Right. All these people. He employs right? And and and the the customers are relying on like he's hands on in a way that most leaders of most hell you. Companies like that he's up leader of the company but him having a hand in that actually. Is quite significant in in like how many times would you go to? Like Burberry, you're not gonna get the same level of care from going to Burberry and getting a trench coat. You know, what I'm just not gonna happen. Yeah. You know, who knows about other big houses? But like for Sasha. I doubt it you know, what I mean? You're just not getting the same the same caliber Chanel, but it's not the same. It's not this. It's just isn't the same why? Because because of him of him, and it's interesting to look at the time lens. I this just sort of occurred to me, but when you look at the timelines, you're saying of when he sort of turned himself into this caricature persona in the ninety s and lost all the weight in sort of married himself to this image of himself that coincides pretty tightly with when Anna winter took over at vogue. So those two have been in that forefront call on the shell and the shots in a lot of ways for the same amount of time. So there's it's no coincidence that those relationships need to be nurtured, and they have feed off of each other. Yeah. It's creepy. It's gross. Almost in my opinion. This is what I have been feeling about Chanel for awhile. Yeah. Not Chenault specifically, I should say. But about Karl like move on move on makes make room. There are so many talented designers who would do amazing things with that brand go. Let them do it. Go. I guess to say that almost every designer in the world knows exactly what they would do if they were. They had that is there. Sure, they've all thought about it. Yes. Absolutely. And if you haven't thought about it, and you're at that level where you're considered to then. Maybe you should reconsider your career options. Maybe I don't know. It's just like, yeah. It's like, it's just so hard. It's just like someone who is shown time. And again, they're a foul human being on many. Resp- in on many levels on many platitudes. It's just like. Go out. How can and we know how something like that can can can last for so long. And so many people will still continue to let it has to do with the money. Like shouldn't like the people had vogue were never going to not run Chanel ads in their issues. There were never not gonna take that advertising. Check. And after a certain point that people who are running Chanel. I think are they part of LVMH. No, they're not Leone. So that's it. So they would never there isn't anyone to be like no stockholders to answer to no one would tell Carl. No, you're done here. It would never happen because he would never go forget, this is the only way it would be end. Yeah. He was gonna. Yeah. As much as we say like you should fuck off make room for other people you've done you've done your time. Thank you very much Cav retirement. I'm sure. Retire. I don't think he could retire. This just not the way he's wired just like as Hugh wording. Maybe it's in his contract that he's not allowed to retire. Gabby. He wrote it in like that who knows. Meglomaniac? There's been a lot of a lot of things coming up like this whole situation where his contract says that he's not allowed to retire with his with his grand record label says he's not like, they're like, you know, us an album every so often every many so weird that like God creeps me out this business moment. Yeah, man. Yeah. Somebody else was asking me like all this happened right after he died and people were talking about I'll dumb fucking horrible shady said. And somebody was like, how do you know this? And I'm like because he said it into every microphone than anybody ever. Put in front of his face is not like you caught. Some like weird aside that he was having with somebody at a party overheard this slices allies. Like bit a Gaza. He said into the camera. You didn't even really have to ask you tireless different. And then he just gave you this thing about, you know, and by the way Dono he was a for one thing he had an extremely narrow. Definition. Yes. One hundred per se always white any en tall. And that's about it. It's about it. There was not a lot of room for teachers, basically, there was not a lot of room for inclusion of people of color, certainly not people of size, certainly not people of varying abilities. It was tall and slim and European and European. That. Yeah. Every shell runway in the last ten years compared to every other major catwalk in the last ten years, and they're in most cases as visible shift towards diversity on the runway. If it's not bodies, it's people of color, and like nine mccown bull in any Monir, like a huge are huge advocates of of diversity on the runways. And like they've like even I am Campbell has still friends with car you still friends with him. But she she still doesn't she still didn't. She didn't not criticize fly, she would still openly criticized she was like, oh when will a block girl open and close Chanel, probably never, and you can look in the last ten years, and it'd probably be I I don't know. I don't have this knowledge. But like, I'm sure you could look and Luke opens and closes Chanel who's put into those positions of far as a model does that's that's that's a position of significance opening and closing show to pick deal to huge deal for models career and an endorser. Forget it. Yeah. They're like look at who promotional beauty watch perfume lady. Why white women's? Yep. So there's that and he was quite vocal about that. He was unapologetic about that. So that is a problem was his friend of mine, we're talking about somebody who's not in the industry at all. Or you know, just just knows of car Lagerfeld in the universe, but not any specific necessarily. And I was we were talking about how. She has she has an experienced with eating disorders. So that's where she was coming from especially she got very rather about the fat-phobic stuff in the, you know, the the size body type comments that he would make all the time. And I said, yeah, he was he was quoted normal size when he was starting out in your twenty s and then you get a little bit thicker than the Carl from the eighties that I fell in love with that. We all fell in love with with the suits and the sunglasses the ponytail and the offense a little bit on the chubby side. But he was still it. But by back, then he was just some weirdo who could just talk to your blue in the face every blue in the face, you just keep going talking to Jeannie bekker's invested television. And you can just talk talk talk talk any sense a fancy in so educated and yeti gotta and then he got skinny probably a fucking weird unhealthy way. And then probably stayed that way in fucked up weird unhealthy ways. And then would use his weight loss to then. Shame other people will I did it wrong with you know, your fatter since I saw you last. He literally told that Tim blanks like your fat now. And then Tim. Okay. Got my sound bites and my. In the next days. Do his job. How? Like, the psychology of this man is a pool that has a well with no bottom. You know what I mean? So as far as his contemporaries in in this industry, they're not far for off from those points of views. You know, like and where seeing nineteen I'm sure how the other people like why sell and all these other people had they physically lasted longer than they have all passed away. Who knows what is they would also have. He's just the loudest and the one that's left. You know, I think I think is the the loss of Carl and his stranglehold over the industry is going to be it's gonna be it's gonna create a lot of change within fashion. I think I'm excited now that there's a woman at the head of Chanel. I'm interested to see what she would do because she's been working with call for thirty years. Hope it's just not correlate. Exactly part of me is like, yes, awesome. You've been fucking doing a lot of heavy lifting and under someone's thumb for the less for your whole career. And she was always right there. Version of yard. But also if it's Carl light in terms of the design and what's coming down the runway like tightened up, and there's not, you know, eighty five looks there's maybe fifty eight and set up like rate. Are they going to give her a lower budget because she's a woman, and they don't wanna spend the mind. She's not Carl maybe because she's not Carl who knows. Sexism wrapped up in that. Absolutely. But I don't I would think that the first argument that they would if they were going to give her less of a budget. The argument would be because she's not Carl women. But who knows but my argument? Equating. I mean who knows? A creative director taking over after someone that icon equates to be there is a level. There's a standard that needs to be maintained. Dr and maintained for fifty year, and for them to not give her the crazy sets in the crazy eighty five collections and access to all these tell ya just because she's not in the garage. Paris. Yeah. It's like it would be damage to the brand. I think for them to maintain it whether a lot whether or not she can sustain it as one thing, but the brand would feel the need or maybe she's been sustaining it for quite a while. Who knows? Like, right. She's been the one connecting it to a modern time. And obviously, it's a white Frenchwoman. So maybe that's why are these these these messages have kind of fallen short at Chanel in the last while like importing an iceberg to talk Oklahoma, roaming on that's just the whole fake feminism show that was. That was so stupid. I mean. Who've this siemian one where it was all appropriation should run those. Yeah. Let's not forget that Carl put headdresses on models in Texas and. Americana. Yeah. Yeah. That that doesn't that doesn't sit. New, but yeah, you I mean, you might be right. Who knows who knows what I mean? Who knows? I'm really curious to see how it will go. I don't think it would be. Here's what she does. I'm curious how long show last? I don't know how long it's going to be. It'll be forty years or thirty years. Three. Yeah. Think someone shop they're shopping around already. Who do you want unless she blows water? Yeah. Who knows? Yeah. You may be right. Like who knows how many strings she's been pulling behind this burns lasted longer than everyone thought. She was she's been great staff. What's fee doing these days? That's what I'm thinking one Phoebe. It's you know, that would be should over khloe after car left. A lot of people are saying that Rafe during their refs ref Simmons. Rough is running from the fashion kind. Yeah. Of inclined going. Yeah. Kevin Kline is ending their ready to wear offering not doing it anymore. Yeah. Doing jeans and then by -pointment nothing. I think they're doing some underwear too. Yep. 'cause they do a lot of. Cash cash, and those checks lots of that underwear stuff is licensed inclined all their license. Okay. Oh, really, well, then maybe work which is annoying because there was some common clan. Underwear that I really liked and they don't make them anymore. Dammit should go to the bay. Florida when undershirts. Oh, man. Yeah. There's some big changes. It'll be just in year to see what happens this time next year. I wonder what it'll look like we'll take a while to get them next year five years who knows visible difference between Carl's Chanel and the national. I think there would have to be I think has sort of there has to be some departure some kind of like, I think, you know, whether it's some sort of pivot or thing. Yeah. Not turn. But like a little slight pivot almost like an Omaha JR. Like the end of in ehre, the a couple of a hat kind of thing. And hopefully, yeah. Young people these days. It's not no Ladybrand. Right. It's still also guest to that level of legend. You know? It's just like like they've done such a good job at at educating people on why they should give this brand so much reverence and now gonna be handed to like how many generations, it's basically. Everyone someone in the world gonna buy. No. Yeah. We'll look they make an hideous sneakers that everyone's making. Glad when that's over. But that's also Karl like somehow despite how insulated and protected and oblivious to the real world he was he was so ahead of the game in so many ways, and he had the finger on the pulse. He was the first person to do a collaboration with a fast fashion brand. He was the first one because he saw it happen, and that entirely shifted the retail landscape and the luxury label landscape to opening that up making assessable and not. Poo poohing it because, you know, oh, you're working Zara argument H M. And 'cause like fuck you. Value and the importance of that market space that head space and just the idea of of training that customer buying luxury. Yes. And to looking at luxury in a different way, not looking at it as something. That's unattainable. Yes. Totally out of your your realm of experience, and it's never going to happen. Of course, you can sit in your bed naked. If you want to with snacks and watch the Chanel couture show on your phone. I couldn't do that. When I was younger. Wait a couple of days before even photos were up online. Yeah. You know? And now, it's just. Show. I remember back in style dot com days before it was bought by vogue reviews were actually reviews not advertisements smoke up their butts. Yeah. Yeah. You'd actually like interesting things to say about Sarah, more before she. Oh boy to start playing the game to pay the rent. Pay the mortgage. Probably probably so. Yeah, it'll be it's it's left a big void. It's also somebody of that age who just had. Like to have in one person such a repository of history and straight up knowledge like historical knowledge, the shit. This guy knew would put an encyclopedia to shame and to have to not have that in a person now and have that spread out over the internet and all these people and collaborations with people like to have to piecemeal that together. And not just how it in one person is going to be a very interesting wager to say impossible. Yes, experiment. Also don't know how much people want that anymore to let's I'm I'm just sort of at this point to I'm like, we can stop. We can stop praising rich old white men now. So we'd be done with this. This gave his entire fortune to a fucking cat. Can we are you serious? Yes. You fuck load of money pet hundreds of millions of money. I mean, I don't know the exact. They're penny. Pretty penny as well or about teast boy. But so I get it. You're a crazy old man. Can we move on? Can we get some people of color on the runways? Can we get some people of color heading design houses, some working in in the inside of the industry had we rate it's happening other places. I mean, it's going, well, we're ju I'm staff check it out some time. No. I mean as as close to the pulses, he was he was off the Mark on a lot of on the people side of things he was off the Mark. Yes, a lot. He will for his polls socially. Sure. Yeah. To be fair his customer for a long time that he inherited from Coco Chanel was saying rich right rule-of-law customer, you know. So he's not off from his original customer base. I'm just can we place move. Off time. I was talking to somebody Catholic church is a whole bunch of shit would happen. See the Catholic church symposium about abuses and stuff. Oh killing fuckers today. Just die and take all that with them. This is a similar kind of feeling same kind of thing sort of old guard white rich old. In bullshit move along. You've had your time. We're done with your lifetime. Ing Eaton's reclaiming. Unfortunate reality of that is that those people had children, and they passed on those values to them. So there are people our age think exactly the same way these men do. No. And it's hoping they're less than numbers. But you're all wrong. There's no guarantee that they're all. System that that that values them and keeps them in positions of power. You know, like, this is a much bigger discussion than just letting old men die. You know? It's just like there are people in the fashion industry right now who are our age who operate the same way Carl did and nobody about because they have varying levels of power, and they have a last name that people recognize, and yeah, and yeah. And you can look at brands like it doesn't need to be a brand like Chanel that has worldwide recognition, and and worldwide esteem and respect it can be a boy fashion brand made here in Vancouver who's run by some asshole. But people still. Excluded will not ask because we are the girls are in the no the Hanks. The girls are betting there lashes, girl. Yes. Letting that go by like, it's valid the this. This problem is not going to die with the old. This problem is replicating so much generation. It's the situation in which things form, you know, the fashion industry is always going to be. Rich. Yes. Someone someone someone who's making somebody a lot of money or somebody with a lot of money. You know, it's just tokenism here and there right show, your good going, and the no you just no. But I would argue that there have been more people across generations, our generation younger generations generation between us on Carl who are getting real tired of this old guard shit and are starting to stir the pot and get a little to make changes. And let's hope it to see let's hope that that keeps going this. Hope it's social media keeps that shit goes. Just going to say big part of the how media's changed as well. It was a winter. Just fucking like circle jerking each other all the time and now bloggers influencers which shit on a most. Sometimes what they do. They are opening up opinions. Yes. Yeah. So that's great. So how did Virgil blow get Louis Vitton? Probably a lot of that. Also, I would argue and included the work that you were doing is stirring, the pot. It's not letting shit just go by and and you know, the be the thing. And because he yeah. Just because always been pretty it's always been the same guy's pulling the strings there's a lot of strings that are that are starting to fray, and there's people who are actively trying to. Thank you. Thank you very much. But also like the reason why I think like I it can't be thrown out. The fact that I'm I am where I am is because I fit into the mold of what people want a fashion designer to look like, I'm white. And I'm thin, you know, like I fit into. Shit like like it's easier for people to take what I have to say when when it doesn't come out of a mouth that they instantly our program less than. Yeah. I, and I think that that gives you power because you are in a position to save things which you are doing that go against what's out there and the just being delivered. Rate them. That is that is different a level comparable to a lot of other people who are the old guard. Yeah, I totally end. Like, yeah. Carl new I mean, he was a wealth of knowledge and. I mean, I get it. But oldest fuck you can't time to to get it all when you're not old. And you only do one thing your whole life. Yeah. You're going to know a lot about it a long like. And being fired. Of course, they're gonna know all that shit. You know, there's people like us who who've who have these these breadth of knowledge, and maybe they're not as expensive or refined as as Carl's might be. But like who's to say that that narrative isn't exactly which needs to give it its next revised balance? You know, like the thing that always brings me back to Chanel is like like the creed. The the how that brand came to be was this was this. This throwing away of the these expectations that women out on them in the way, they needed to dress. And that has always been inspiring to me. And then you go and see which is now an it's a sea of robots the Chanel double sees stamped on somewhere else. You know is just like, and where's that individuality and wears that ease, and whereas that like your belly rebellious Lindsey and femininity, and you know, all these rejection of norms throwing away. Convention and the doing it my for yourself like this is what I wanna wear. This is what I need to feel like this is what I need for to do the things I want to do in my life. And that is now which is doing like for that fucking feminism. Tone deaf, actively tone deaf show that he did what he could have done was just go back to every original drawing that cocoa had done when she first started and tweet and shapes and that would have been much more powerful statement, then walk down the catwalk with fucking artist or whatever in like two hundred thousand dollars two hundred dollars. Yeah. Like dress. Like, I I mean, there's he will never be replaced loan. But he saw his place in to replace some Monette replaced. A good thing that we're talking about as replacement because it is long overdue. Yeah. May he resident pay? Yes. He'll be fine. What? Yeah. I tried. I tied to find the fashion show of that fucking pink feathery tunic thing that. Wasn't Kristen McMenemy was the it wasn't her. It wasn't Shinto Aaron O'Connor Aaron O'Connor war. It was it Connor he'd being with a wig on because I remember long hair heaping where when it was a show Cour show. And it was the last thing that actually made me like emotional with C like give me that that that's sensation of like. Oh my God. Look at that. It's like so like it looked like what I thought she should look like in like gave me that it. I'd connection to the past. And it was like flapper esque, but it wasn't like costume. It was covered in others and had like little. Fly. Ostrich? I think the little, but they were like polar Israel, curl them by hand and all this stuff. Yeah. Can't remember? But that that look is like the last thing I remember, and it was when we were in school. I think that the collection came out, maybe. Yeah. So just ten years more of that just within the last decade all your Rolodex. Eight year. Two thousand Lux. Well, let's remember that one the remember that I'm yes. And I do recommend going back and watching interviews of him watch senior Chanel fascinating. Because as a lot it into us more. So interviews the people who actually make the clothes rather than Carl's him. There was document forget what it was called documentary. Just about him Lagerfeld, confidential one thousand fascinating great because you get to see his house and like his routines in like how many phones? Do a photo. She was Cecil Beaton or is that another documentary Pierre? Now there that's a different one. I think and yeah, there's a lot going on being. Yeah. I think we set all there is we can say settled, we're just gonna go back and forth. Chino awesome. It wasn't how terribly was. Yeah. And that's fine. That's fine. That will it will never see humans are complex people. Lagerfeld's as much as he didn't wanna believe it from all counts still human still still part of part of the human race, and we have to onto obsess. I it's true. We've we've given him an aunt of we we gave him one episode. We could fill it we could fill out and then probably little bit more. But we'll save you the rehashing of. And maybe we'll come back in here and talk sweatpants you've given on life. Someone who sweatpants everything. Oh. I love it so much. It's the worst send the best the best wrapped up. All right. Let's obsess break. We'll come back. We'll set. He did it. Did it did do eliciting too fattening? Hey. We're back for real we're back. Now, we press record in its back, and Dave knows to cut all that talk nonsense beforehand. We're back. We're actually sitting rests and got over NAR got over our rage for now. Carla. Carletonville Ray, Jen. Rage in reverence raging reverence and reverie. One eight on the car Lagerfeld. I don't know anybody else who would be able to maintain the levels of both of those feelings in may end. But that is the Nikola. The Kaiser wanted only anyway talking about Karl we can talk with things we like to talk about. Now. Let's talk about ourselves. Can we barely talked about? Ten minutes. Podcast talking about. Why you're here? I will I because mine. It's neither here nor there. The Nyquil that I've been that I've been hopped up on off in a month. There's a restaurant improver called Ben Dita's, and it's one of my. Yes. Favorite like Rideau taco situations. So have good, and they have this like pickled cabbage that they put on all other. Oh young 's. What's up? Yes. Kind of. I love it. It's like I eat it off other people's plays new go there because it's so good. It's so simple. Delicious knows like I need to figure out how to make this. It's got to be easy. It's Piccoli on hard. I'm gonna figure out the hardest. Part is white is waiting. So I found the recipe I've made so much. Tube so much like I was like Britos for the week. Yes. For dinner every week every day this week, so good. So this is my recipe red cabbage or purple cabbage. Whatever cut it like half and shredded on mandolin if you have a mandolin, that's a real real thin and nice. I like it like sorta string just imagine. Yeah. A little. Twelve stranger tends to. There was a guy and get this named real voyeur who played the mandolin. He was the only one going who played it, and it was like his thing that people would like ask him to go in lake bring the mandolin breaking. Dr lure of course. Get reality. I mean, come on. Yeah. Yeah. Mandolin is a pretty magical. I'll give you that. But so you gotta shred it like real thin or cut it like slicer, really thin. I personally like it like a long and like an almost like a noodle. Coleslaw style. Yeah. I don't like a little tiny pieces. Like, I want long. Gotcha situation. It's so fucking easy to do. All you do is you take a couple of water. You take a Cup of your vinegar of your choice, my personal favorite. Now is apple cider vinegar, but you can mix shrieking with whatever upside or some red wine miniature whatever my personal favorite upside Renault. A tablespoon at like a heaping tablespoon of sugar. I put a little bit more. Sure because I get a little bit sweet teaspoon of salt a crush cove. Six ish pepper corns pepper, kosher. And you just dissolve it together chop your. Your cabbage. And I have like an old peanut butter jar like in Adams peanut butter. So I basically like fill that with my radiant, my whatever my cabbage and then poured and on top. So that it sort of matches up. So it's not because it all has to be submerged. That's the thing is that all has to be bar. And then he just leave it out for like four to six hours, and then you can refrigerate it, but you can make it the same day that you're that you wanna eat it. You just have to let it sit in the morning before you go out or whatever or you do it like. Like if you start making lunch or something start then line, and then you have it for dinner. And then you put it in the fridge after four to six hours, and you just keep it into seed until it's gone is so good and easy and delicious. I'll just like open the fridge open the jar with a handful and even like ice cream. It's so good. And couldn't she and saw the. I can't tell you. How many burritos? And it goes with so many it goes with everything it's so good on. Goes meet goes beans goes gradients, scrambled eggs, or like eggs like a Friday. Oh, my weekend breakfast is mashed potatoes or not mashed potatoes hash Browns, I should say. And then two fried eggs melted cheese. If a have of a KADO slice, avocado pup, I'm now this pickled cabbage guys. I can't stop. It's so good. I'm my sister asked me with recipe for it. So that the picture that I have from my resume is this screen shot. It's nice. So I will include that on I was gonna say Sears could fill Kevin. It's so easy. And so God, and then he can like tweak if you want a little bit saltier shirt, sweeter, whatever more, garlic, whatever other. You're never spaces you want in there. Oh, fantastic. I can't stop. If he's going to turn into a cabinet. That's a big. So that's me. Neither it's neither here nor there. But I'm obsessed moving on who's next Evan. What are you obsessed with I had the great honor of going to an all day indigenous brilliance during the growing festival which is happening now in Vancouver. It's huge writing fest. And a couple of friends of mine and a colleague of my brothers or mentor. My brothers. They well the indigenous brilliance is monthly reading series at happens in Vancouver. And it's to promote the voices of women and two spirited writers indigenous writers, so it's poetry prose fiction. Nonfiction fiction academic writer, everything and they had the opportunity to hold events. It was four separate readings with four sometimes five different readers. And there was kind of an overarching theme to every day to every every sessions. I whatever sorry. And I was there for the whole day. It was amazing. It was so interesting to see this like breadth and depth of point of use and experiences and and perspectives on what it means to be indigenous in today's climate today's. Today's reality. But I had the opportunity of meeting aerial twists. Who's who is in amazing writer coming from amuse read the damn bio because native people don't write their bio for no reason. It's always funny. When people ask me to send a bio, and they're like, can you keep it to like forty words or like can keep tight, and I'm like, no it's gonna take me forty words to explain to where I come from. You know, so Errol twitches a writer and sex educator from George Gordon. First nations scotch one in his base set of Halifax Nova Scotia, she is a Neo Neo which means woman in Cree to spirit transform supernova writing to reclaim and harness and social magic and memories within her short career pursuing writing she's attended the residency at the Banff centre for the arts and creativity and has were published with them, which is the the Conde nast Conde nast online magazine for q. Fulham Instagram, lovely counter, recommended them. Oh, yes. Yes. Canadian art the fiddle head and prison, national, and this is disintegrate dissociate, which is what the book that. I bought this is her first book of poetry. And I that's impressive. I have not had the opportunity to read the whole thing. But I read like a little the first couple of poems today, and I'm just I'm not this book in particular, but more so over that. I'm just so obsessed in grateful with the fact that I have so many. People to look to who who are creating work and talking from this point of view what it means to be. Queer an indigenous and an is creative and creative. And and talking about about displacement and. And and diet that reality in such an unabashed way, it's very inspiring to not be too not to to dull certain aspects of my truth to be palatable within my medium, like I think more like more so in fashion than maybe any other medium, especially in writing because writing your often the expected to to lay out all of your all of your traumas and all of your hardships for your work to be validated. And I've spoken about this before I think on the last recorded about my last collection is like that's something that I've kind of discovered is that the things that if people have been really interested in within my work have been the things that have been the most difficult revelations that I've come upon this enter sprint and. And it it's just great to be able to be within the company of people who who understand the realities. Even though like, obviously, I'm a young person. And and circumstances. And our and our experiences are very different. Commonalities there but strength from each other enough differences that you can learn from each other's. Yeah. Where's this? Where was that thought? It was going somewhere. Great. And I lost it gammit pickled purple Cam you. Finding people fit these these, you know. These molds creative and indigenous some. God I lost. It's not gonna what it was. Let us know. But you know, what I didn't. I had a teacher professor in university. Who said that if you're thinking of something, and you couldn't quite articulate it. And then you lost it. It probably wasn't wasn't what you might be. Well thought out enough yet anyway. And that's the thing. This is only been a couple of days. And like, I always find that any some time to sit with my thoughts. Something like this that so meaningful, and you know, important, you know, just the next couple of weeks, I'm excited because. Like within fashion. Maybe it's not it's expected of me to give the rose colored glasses. I pretty it's going to be pretty it's got to be. Yes, you have to sell it. You know? Now, there's these there's so many people within my generation who are disproving that. But also, it's like having this conversation around like do we need to give everything that we've experienced people to validate our work work. Can we operate within like an a different kind of? In a different mood. You know, like there's like it. It's so rare for someone who's racially is to be able to make a career off of being lighthearted, not or not being a caricature of of who they are, you know, and like, and and people like Ariel and many of the people most and all of the people who read it indigeneous brilliance proving exactly that we can be tour experiences, and we can speak the truth, and we can operate with humor and and have meaning contribution. Yeah. We can offer within humor and a little bit of. I don't know. Earnestness. And and vulnerability, and it won't we won't be seen as weakness. You know? Like like, the fact that like never would have thought that I would be able to pick up a poetry book like areas or like Billy raise and have it speak to my experiences or something that I can associate better with than other works like this other queer works in general, you know, it's like like indigenous people and people are often left out of that narrative when it's coming from a white person's point of view or the way people always concentrate on the trauma, porn part of it to overcome so much. Tell me all about as all all of these interviews here. Few and door to like to get to where you are. Now. Are. Oh, no. You're also just a human with four. Yeah. Like in areas case, also, I'm great writer or in the tower great policy analyst or I'm a great lawyer. I'm great. I make were great filmmaker. It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that we have a story to tell it will. It has a lot to do with the fact that we're telling the story that's never been told before. But in the way that you want because we're telling a story that has told before isn't that's not the only value to our work is that the white people wanna hear it's like there's like there's value like intrinsically linked into our mediums. And I think that's something that as a collective we're really trying to like put forward is that our work has value outside of whatever trauma porn, or whatever kind of voyeurism. You can get out of reading it. You know it. It's it's good writing good design. It's a good film. It's good music. And you're not. Doing it for white people to consume. No, another big part of it too. Is that you're doing it for your own for yourself? Oh, yeah. Your peers for your family for your ancestors for all these other things, right? It's not just of course, a part of is because white people educating people, they're the ones come to check a lot of the time. One of the best ways you can enter Kate yourself is by books of poetry like this go and read about somebody else's experience. Like like, and they're they'll be things in in any. Ripe piece of writing any piece of art or any perspective that an indigenous person has the generosity to share with the general public. That is gonna be a surprise to someone who's not indigenous, but I can read this book, and I can see. Oh, okay. Like, it's like, it's like, okay. You you experienced that sensation as well. And obviously, my experiences a white passing may t- man, and then areas experience as a trans dark-skinned visibly indigenous woman is completely different. But the like they're things that with like all of our ancestors operating within this colonial narrative their sensations. I kind of like come up that her incredibly. Similar to read on a page. You know, but that someone has someone somewhere has has like printed that onto a page and someone is been generous resonates with young Stockley. Yeah. 'presentation matter. Oh, man. And my generation are only representation growing up was contests. North movie. I mean, I have this conversation. I have a lot of feelings about it. A lot of feelings. Really do like I haven't. Thing was easing the Canadian show show about reserve reserve north of the sixtieth parallel and just this town and how they function how they knew which of another bad things and all the good things. And it was like oh my God. They're actually fully formed human as winter actually on many levels. Summer heroes, and some are awesome. And they fuck up, and they learn and they love anyway, it's a whole thing. People are funny people are like and like people are whatever anyway. And and love to watch where we get that. They do they do reruns and AP tan, but it's never caught a logical. So you can't get attached to the store. My mother used to watch it every week. It was the one. What was the American version in the Alaska? One wasn't the American version. There's other no was an American moose walking through the street is at the same show than thinking exposure northern exposure. Yes. Which way people? Yes. Loose-knit that opening credits is what's triggering guess race? There you go. I'm playing the north of sixty theme song in my head right now. Sixty is the Arctic circle, right? Yeah. That was a show, and it was in the reserves was to be in northern Alberta. A fake one. Sure. Yeah. Interesting. I'm so glad I went I. No, I don't follow this. Let's that's my life. Maybe next week. We'll talk about makeup or something. Exactly. Who's to say? Thank you, everyone going room. And thank you. Jay, my friend Jason. And Jessica John who program the whole event and had all the important where like all like the who's who of indigenous literature. Aerial twist eat in Robinson like God. It was my friend. Emily riddle, Spokane read some amazing shit. I'll just so much brilliant yet, Google all these people. Yeah. Look at all these things expand your minds. I also monkey beach on my my bedside table for my beach in Ramat, I anyway, that's my. Future obsession actually read that book. It's been on my list for while me following Evans. Very important work. I tore through shits creek, which was great fine to me as a lot of David. David doesn't get because he didn't watch. But it's also David, of course. So good. David, david. And also, I've talked to my in laws about this. My mother-in-law, particularly, but more in many levels is my mother. Lady are those our own world. That's fair. Anyway. So my mother-in-law's Mara way better clothes. Moist close. Wicks Lord, anyway, social scrape can wait for more. But. I also tore through the new one data time. The only show I never fast forward through the same song. I hate intros hate the credits. I don't care you. This is. Life the one you've got. Oh, it's great, Ken recommended. I was recommended my sister-in-law about how I was not the recommendation from you. I never million years would have watched it. But you spoke so highly of it. I I cried every other episode the first season, I didn't cry this season with the third one the Sony was more. But it wasn't as Syria. It was it was pretty like mended. They dealt with some pretty serious things. But I think like there was nothing that was like tragic. Sure, it was just like that's telling you didn't have stroke again. So you're there we go. Spoiler alert. But the other thing that I was going to. Then it was thinking recently, I was looking through on all clean my bathroom trying to figure out. I'm trying to blow through bunch of products. Right. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Protests called for over thirty five talking about make an empty just collect all these damn things. He spent all the stupid money in the Univer use them. So just use what you have and go through it all and figure out what works what doesn't work, whatever beauty products and stuff and realizing I'm obsessed with teaching oil. Oh, fourteen different products. Really, do you just use it like it's areas earnings? I see. So like my shampoo and conditioner and body wash have teacher real in them. I have a serum teacher Yehiel the little the little dabbing stick from the body. Shop trio. Deodorant? Some perfumes teacher Royal there's something about it. And I was thinking about two after we had our interview with. One of black him totally hander name now. Well, perfume, many Jabber any, you know. Any sense that we like teach out there for me? I would sue light and like natural botanical not like well. Well, that's the thing. I like plant sense. But I don't like florals if it smells like a flower. I'm not interested, but anything planned grass Irby certain teachers all that. And a lot of things like about products mix it with like eucalyptus and men and stuff, and that's real nice. We used that Dr bronner's the big orange. We just that's what we use for like body, washing their shower that tritter Joe stuff that I just every time I'm almost out of conditioning to make make a call somebody or go to trader Joe's. They've let a beauty products teacher all the meant to just had really. But it's great. I love way it, smells, and it's good for your skin. It's nice. And it feels good. I. It's also. It's like a natural anti-death thing. I didn't know I was asking around trying to find something for dandruff that wasn't head injuries and full of fucking chemicals shifts like foams so much because of all the weird shit. That's in it, smell, great either. And then somebody said OJ Simpson his teacher, Mike. Teachers. So yes, I'm and this has been like, you know, a couple years of accumulating, all these products and stuff. I just I'm always drawn to it. Like, I have this. I just go to like winners, which is like TJ Maxx marshalls appear and go to the natural beauty salon sex section. And she's always weird shit. You of stuff that you don't know what they're going to get a bunch of weird stuff. And I got this weird deodorant and it's coriander and teach oil a weird. It's lovely you guys. It's great and fresh. Are you all use natural in the wintertime because a lot of the time? It doesn't cut it in the summertime I actually moved to actual deodorant and in the summertime. This wonderful. It's fresh love, especially after shower too. In the heat of the shower. Always nice good. I got some like. Epsom salts to some in the lone good. Do you are you on to have a bath? Every once in a while. Yes. It's not my preferred. But everyone smell put our mask put on a felt podcast of soak. That is a nice minutes. We board though. Yeah. I do too. I need a pocket and the water gets cold. Yeah. It's like I can't tan either. It's like a board. No problems. I'm asleep, which is not good. Never ended. Well. Keyboard into my mascot podcast every once in a while mine's to game seriously, hashtag Mesquita podcast some weird shit. There's some good crime podcast coming out too. Excerpt session shit on I'm gonna break after teacher's pet pets, and I need to anyway, we're get enough guys. And we are overtime much overtime guy. The data time theme song feel better. Okay. So I'm saying cabbage read a book about a present q. Welcome. You're. Came. I here's done. You guys think you always forever for listing and all the places Instagram action podcast, Twitter strikes. Pod donor on. No, they'll be getting signed. Account. Oh, no. I'm back in the whole thing. Dot com. I say, I g mail you guys all the things all the prices just do it. And know that from you, we do love it. And we love you will offer true. True.

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Tim Blanks on the January Menswear and Couture Shows | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

54:58 min | 1 year ago

Tim Blanks on the January Menswear and Couture Shows | Inside Fashion

"Uh-huh. There was so much energy around a tool Pierpaolo petrole again man of the season griss after dress after dress that was work of. And then Gagliano just has reached this peak. He's becoming fashions great social commentator. There was a sense of migration in a lot of clothes. I thought over the season of people on the move the return of wrath. What was in the air that night Rath coming home Virgil abo- and Kim Jones Virgil is more direct about saying. He's moving away. He wants to take kids into tailoring Hetty sleep man's debut menswear show for selene the colors of fashion of change so much. You know, he is now one voice of many. Hi, this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion. Welcome to the podcast this week. I'm sitting down with our editor at large Tim blanks. Who's freshly back from Paris Milan? And London talking to me about the men's tour shows and all of the conversation energy. That's happened around those shows in recent weeks, if you want to dip into Tim blanks is incredible mind than stay tuned. This is Tim blanks inside fashion. Good morning, Tim blanks. Welcome to be oh. F h q. Thank you. How are you doing recovering? Yeah. Moaned you've been traveling. Yeah. It was a it was a really strange drink season. Tombs of demands. I mean, it was as restrained as London and Milan were Paris was disa- madhouse. That's exactly what you said this time last year. It's this str-. It really really like fascist, consolidating and Paris. It feels to me. It was for both men were and couture. It was a very very busy season. Yeah. I mean, I was reflecting on my own fashion reach Chadrel, which was actually entirely personally, consolidated in Paris. Because I missed London Milan. But in terms of the key moments of the season. It didn't feel like I missed all that much by by extending my holiday, so I could spend a bit more time on the beach, but let's not leave London out entirely because there was Craig green. Yeah. Who who is far as I'm concerned is the most interesting menswear designer in the world at the moment that is a strong statement. I think on so many levels in in thought would indeed he is. The guy who's pushing menswear, but in pushing it he's not leaving people behind so. This has affected say something for everyone. But was such a bland blanket statement. But there really is. I mean, this this the clothes that challenge the codes of men's wear the clothes at embrace them. This. An incredible amount of thought and and actually philosophy that goes into them, the colors are good the fabrics interesting. And I thought it was I mean, he's he he launched this. This statement about plastics in this collection. Plastic as the boogeyman delusional. I thought that was quite interesting later in the season when Tom Brown did a did a show that was in to bubble wrap in a way that you know, it's kind of it's kind of know your enemy, I suppose, but the way Craig did it to to. I word I use a lot when talking about fashion, it's out Comey out chemical process designers, take fabric, and turn it into something magnificent. We have Valentino talk about in the little while. And Craig did that with plastic, but there's so much more in that collection and end Frederick Sanchez is a wonderful soundtracks does an incredibly sensitive soundtracks, the whole thing. It will. It's literally organic. I mean, he's always had that quality. You always feel like you're in a community on a cliffside in a post apocalyptic paradise and never lose that feeling. But this time it was so strong. And I'm really really thrilled. What's about Craig as well? A few years ago. He invited me over to his studio early in his trajectory very early. And I went over there. And I'm not joking. He had the the the space of about the dusk that we're sitting out right now to work out. And I think he as he described to me I said, well, how many people were on your team? I think he said two and a half. And I said how do you have half an employee's like that's all I can afford and from such a genuinely humble beginning. You're calling him the greatest men's were designer working today. I'm really curious to see how he develops his business. Because while there are elements there that are fantastical and elements that embrace menswear think, you know, when I'm wearing my own Craig green looks as I love them. I still get people from outside real guys don't really quite understand loan. And so I wanna see how he makes it more mainstream. Basically what I think he has a very very successful commercial collection. He's developed that what's in that. I have one of his hoodies has amazing like white string. Yeah. Well, the the strings kind of his signature the laces, and I think they're incorporated into the selling collection. I mean, the commercial collection. But he does extremely good shirts. He is really good at creating close at that. Kind of basic basic should for example. But there's something about it. Which makes it as basic as it could possibly be sure. Which makes people feel good when they shot reckon. I mean, he makes there's nothing is close aren't going to his clothes not going to compromise. A guy who's a little bit wary of have on God fashioned. I mean at one point Craig was the was the of that. But he's he's just very very smart. Yeah. I I'm a huge fan too. And so we should do more with Craig I'd like to learn more about how his his whole businesses volving. I've seen his current space. Maybe that's a future story. Okay. So Craig green was the undoubted highlight of London talk to us about what was happening in Milan this season. What we you know, we we come out of we came out of London. Which was you know, I mean, it's crazy look at the calendar. And Paris is just like the Sproule and London was trim Milan. Was. Equally trim. I mean, Georgia Amani was the latest designed to decide to show menswear womenswear together. So he was up the men schedule, which is one last big show. So and Gucci's not doesn't show during menswear potato vented and show, and what we had was really in terms of the big guns. I mean with got Prada Fendi and Basayi. Yeah. And. The product show was one of nuture products. Great idea ideas numbers, you know, where it's the ideas. I felt it was I felt the ideas carry the clothing, a great ideas. She's angry and she's still angry. That's what you said last year still angry. And and you know, she's not gonna take it anymore. Surreal network moment and. That I I like the sense of. There was a sense of my migration in a lot of the clothes. I thought over the season of people on the move a few designers to talk to me about you know, you have your world on your back. Which is interesting. I remember his Saint July and the amazing collection about that years and years ago, and it was so radical than now, it's it's gone beyond radicalism has become a sort of. You can see it as of necessity in a way that that is sense of the world in total upheaval, and you need to be able to move and Hari if you have to it's rather dress it, but. The satchi did this. I mean, the confidence and enthusiasm in that house, especially now that. Donatella has deal with Capri people were calling the collection. This course Archie in books. Capri obviously as Michael Kors umbrellas oil. Sure. Donatella, absolutely. Of course, not. Oh, you know, people just have to have put after Malcolm, these days, don't they the branch, leaner of fashion is called Sergey. I suppose I should have more up to date reference and Brandolini as well. But it was such a full on. Just joyous colorful rupaul on the soundtrack, you know, just so upbeat and that collection in particular the styling on it was amazing. You know, sometimes sometimes the styling and shows you don't you don't you don't notice it. And that's good. Because that means it sublimated sublimated into the designers message and other times. There was must have been thousands of Aisin's on that catwalk from everything from a doodad hanging away to cap to layered layers of Azure, wear to whatever the shoes styling on that show was a real feast, you know, you could you could see every outfit breaking down into stuff that people would want to buy. So I thought that was a very. Very very spectacular launch for. The Visayan Capri as. And in terms of other of things going on. I mean Mani is monitoring me as a collection to watch. What's happening? There is more joy. You know? I think it's funny that Jessica resource not angry. No, not angry and and not angry and. Fashions has playground and again, another collection where everything came together the music of visuals. And it was just really really upbeat thing. I think that that's that's one thing. You know, there is there is I guess I wouldn't say doom and gloom. But there is a sort of. Sense of not not even ominous. But. An pissing mystic, but a sense of uncertainty. And I think you see that in London you see that in Milan where? You know, there is a certain controversy about what the men's weeks are going to end up meaning. And you know, whether it's better to dislike one super strong statement for the city, superstrong fashioned safe and incorporating menswear womenswear. I mean, I don't really see how could happen. The way things are people committed to these notions. But within those within those slightly kind of slender is d- concepts. There these real real high points real real jolts. That make that made me feel really good about what's going on. And. Make me question. My fingers over at all when it ends up and jobs. So let's move on to Paris. Because as we as you noted earlier the shed will there was rammed the season. And guess it started really with the return of raff. Post. His big news about Calvin Klein how what was in the air that night that Wednesday night. Graphs coming home. You know? All that turmoil resolved. And is collection. And back, I suppose suppose people think is back where he belongs. So whatever. And it was a it was a very interesting raft show. You know, he he he very much wanted to make it. Make a strong statement as possible given that this was. Not much more than weeks since the whole Calvin thing blew up and. Collection being to have sinned jalousie schism. Schizophrenia. I mean from geology schizophrenia, I guess, though, the the collection wasn't schizophrenic it because it was it was variants of the same ideas. Same silhouettes and fabrics change in Calapan change win from monochrome to quite brightly colored. So it wasn't like a, you know. Longshore writing do I mean, I spoke to him briefly during the week at dinner, and there is a kind of duality there has been into Allie about his existence. Push go further. I'd say schizophrenia, right? And so he's in the process of moving back to Antwerp and moving all of his stuff. Yeah. From New York, and he was talking about the the kind of that lovely begun collusion that process of like returning home as it were. But having lived this kind of divided. Yeah. Life and where his. I think I think I think Calvin was an incredible experiment. Looking back on what he achieved there. What he used fashioned is a vehicle for that shows the pretty those collections. Those shows pretty extrordinary I think as time passes, and you think that somebody did a collection for one of America's biggest sports brands based on the works of Stephen King. I mean, you're going to people will love them in on site. I love the show. But was it was I love the show because it was everything about raff. You know, it was all his although this time, it was less about sort of transient Savusa and beauty has been as theme for years and years and he's fascinated with youth cults. But this time, I think he was it was almost his own transient transients his own youth, beauty, blah, blah, blah. That was that was intriguing him. And he had the most since ational band playing live and only. Two people could see them at which I thought was really really. Really really interesting that everybody else sitting in the in the fabulous hotel ballroom of the Shangrila, even showing a hotel ballroom. The great couture as of old of everybody sitting in that ballroom. Nobody could see the ban exists me on one side of the hour looking straight down the aisle to the band and Frank ocean on the other side. So it was straight down. She think they deal that intention. I think I'm sure it was intentional. The way to feel special time. No because the band was amazing. And were they they were cold whispering sons, and they were from Belgium, and the lead singers is incredible girl who might be a little bit of a very young pope. Okay. The sound was great. The tyrus was good and all of that is just wrath getting back to his roots. And it was really interesting because last time he showed in Paris, and we were in some dank concrete bunker on the outside of town. This is me I am a designer on the margins. This time we're in this gilded, hotel ballroom, super convenient to everything and that was that was a strong that was a strong statement in itself as well. And it was good to good to Evan back and convenient. Well, we'll see how. One hundred percent focus on his own thing is going to. Help maybe put a different kind of energy into his own brand. Clearly when you don't have the behemoth of Calvin Klein to manage all of his credit energy's gonna be focused on RAF Simons for the future. Yeah. Then something unconventional happens something that I've never seen during fashion week, which is two brands showing at the same fashion week unveiling collaboration where showing showing the same ideas, two hours apart exactly Tino brands, but two of the most amazing brands men's menswear. Yeah. Who collaborated and the collaboration came together super super quickly as well. So it's the back story. Well, Valentino showed pre collection in the resort collection in Tokyo in. Zap that was in just before voices and. June Takahashi from undercover contributed three Aisin's to the Valentino popup store and Pierpaolo petroleum in June. Talking about a collaboration Joan did prints sent them over Pierpaolo put them did them his way, and John Dejan Takashi did them his way the shows two hours apart. They did I mean Jones the the print that Jones supplied was typically undercover shh in it's extremely arcane nature the face of at ground PO superimposed with a UFO and Pierpaolo used that graphic on the signature, Valentino, silhouettes and fabrics and. He he did a streetwalker collection. A few years ago few seasons ago for men which I found a little bit jarring in the context of anti ballistic. It was a little bit like forced. Yeah. I when I say me too. I don't mean the movement me too. I mean, Aban, you know, this is me to join the getting on the bandwagon. But he's he's it's very it's been very much in his mind that that's a way to make Valentine relevant to take a house whose reputation is founded on the most exquisite couture bring it into the present by having these elements familiar to a younger, audience, trainers and pockets and things so this he still he will not he's not moving away from that. As he said, it's not that we're going to stop wearing sneakers, although we could talk about that. It's on the minute. But but still this beautiful fabrics is a sort of elongated. Very very languid chic like male, couture, chic and Valentina. And so Jones graphics printed on that Valentino, look and then for himself. He did use them more in the sort of the street wear, Sal, we associate with undercover which is Parker's and is and. New tasted. Athletico whatever. And then Jones who Joan who show was just as beyond as it ever is. It's always your favorite should always my favorite now. Now, he was showing women's now he doesn't showed an presenting man's now. He presents women than shows men with the same amount of complexity and and high-concept. Commitment telling the most elaborate. Rich stories through his clothing, and that show was just I just sort of mentioned that you'd never ever been to amend show for a fashion show before and that happened to be the one that you walked into his year. That was incredible. I'm the theme clockwork orange, very very timely theme, you realized how absorbed he's always being by the notion of gangs. But John John Takahashi's, cultural references, spanned millennia, and he's like typically Japanese in the way that he curates elements that would seem to be totally opposed, but they fit together magnificently. So the clockwork orange the droops realize that Joan loves gangs. He and he was upon himself. And he loves it. I think he just loves it tribal of tribalism the sense of community, and it's very fashion idea. It's hot. So the drew from clockwork orange. He hybridize with the renaissance artist Caravaggio who had a gang that roamed around Florence kind of raping and pillaging and motoring and and our Carver's you. Yeah. And but really lush sensual and they Roddick. Yeah. And in the soundtrack was Beethoven the music from clockwork orange. So you're Beethoven drugs and Caravaggio and his. His whole thing is whole interpretation of the ideas that had sent to. Pierpaolo Pacelli was were completely him just as Paolo. So completely him. I it's amazing. If you sit down and think about who else would love to see doing that. Did it work? Yes. Totally. I mean, given that there will be a lot of people who looked at Valentino. And didn't know what was going to happen up the road two hours later down the road. It did work because it was towed. They're both totally standalone. And it was funny. Pierpaolo was an undercover backstage busily. I think he said there was like twenty two things he wanted to order something. Join the queue, but. That that was. The openness of that. You know, the kind of lack of say lack of ego, obviously, it's not lack of ego. But this is sort of that kind of that general generous exchange, right, totally. Yeah. We'll be lovely to see people doing that. We can't talk about menswear anywhere. Let alone Paris without talking about what's going on in the the whole street where situation, and of course, the two people at the vanguard of street where in kind of high luxury menswear are Virgil at blow and Kim Jones who are new both of them in their roles at Louis Vuitton, your how what were your survey Sion's season feels to me that when you go to those shows the whole audience and everything is completely shifted to remember, you know. If you think back. To kind of Kris van ashes Dior shows. And you think about the DR shows that Kim's doing the even the the shows that Cam did for veto on just how the environment and atmosphere of the energy in those shows is completely different now. I think that Kim's shows that we were big. Yeah. And his this is. Virgil and Kim the sofa more seasons. And Virgil is more. When it comes to street where Virgil is a lot more. Direct about sang. He's moving away. He wants to take kids into tailoring. He talks about this as very much like a little mission. I think with. The other designers other street designers, just doing that just not talking about a quite much Virgil seems to be the sort of person who saying not saying street where is dad, obviously as Pierpaolo says and people aren't going to stop wearing sneakers, but he had he had his white collection. And he had we on. And he also had. His own jewelry collect. Won't shine rezone also Herron pressed and and Matthew Williams with Alex who with public part of being trill with him. And as Herron said, it's like it's like when the Japanese came to Paris in the early eighties. The street whip people at all showing the same time that used to be in this little gang this being doing being drill. And. It's interesting interesting. Looking those collections because Virgil with off white and with? With we two mon- that the emphasis is on more tailored clothing. And and he's trying to reform the suit it's not it's not just because it would be really boring to see a bunch of guys going down the runway in like. Sweat shirts and sneakers evitable as black follows white in fashion. And and transparency comes along the tail end of you know. Cover-ups and always been this way short long back wide. Sneakers to dress shoes. The. As as customers or consumers prefer customers. When you've been wearing sneakers forever and ever and ever. You're going to something else is going to start looking good to you some someone who comes along with an interesting proposition. And right now, dress shoes, they're just the early adopters that places like matches matches dot com. Bindra shoes, you it's funny to my my assessment on what's going to happen is by looking at what people in front rower wearing not the celebrities. But the editors and the buyers and the people who are kind of genuinely right at the beginning of whatever trans happen because they're in the business of creating those trends and last season I would last men's which is only back in June. I'd look down the runway. Waiting for the shows everyone's sneakers and this time. There were very few sneakers. And if they were sneakers were no more like Balenciaga tracks, knickers bless knickers. It was more facet classic downs. The ship has happened very quickly. Well, you know, the Zanu front row. Yeah. That long long line of rappers and influences and hip hop is. And that doesn't selling every single one in the was wearing a pair of Zanu China's, and you know, if they were paid to but if you're a kid today. Yeah. And a kid any old time who wants to stand out from the crowd. You know, the kid grows his hair long on everybody else has a buzz cut vice versa. What are you gonna wanna web raft shoes? Like, gigantic Frankenstein shoes. Wore wore the shoes we see. At at deal or you going to you're going to be thinking with fashions all about individuality. This is how I'm going to express mine. I think that one thing that was very interesting about about Kim and Virgil and. One thing which I think is probably going to be quite influential going is that they big shows. The Virgil show was all was. Kind of inspired by Michael Jackson, and when Dave Hynes from from blood blood orange wrote walk down, the sidewalk bet lit up. The pave stones Jay amazing. I mean, I can nine nine hundred four and Billie Jean. You can't resist the in the band starts playing one of us done in something out there. And then that amazing model. Alton Mason does those like backflips on the runway, and he's a model to buy really? Yeah. But that the sort of it was so show-bizzy it was so it was it was Broadway. You know, this was theater and Virgils. Extremely good. We've got we've got ourselves another really good Empresarial. Yes. And Kim Kim's production. The two shows he's entered your men sofa with a huge statue. In the middle of the cause. Of course statue in the Japanese manga artists and in Tokyo, this time, the statues were the models on a conveyor belt posed on a conveyor belt, and it was. That was most exciting to watch was it was it was it was he was fully committed to that. And we waited for it to happen had you, and I not gone to seek him whatever for a preview before maybe it would have been. But it didn't find that like super engaging. What I did love is on Instagram who's Raymond PETA Bon artistic collaborator. This was as just about to me. Anyway, as unlikely collaborators you could get. Raymond pedal on us through the covers of black flag. He was it's how he got his start. He was he was the graphic artist of choice for California's had Corsino and eighty in the early eighties. And it was just extrordinary to see his one of his images. Joop located with fourteen million hours. Embroidery word on a shirt that the sort of the Turish intensity of misdoing deal is incredible. You know, this is this is sort of newness there. It's not immediate. But there's a sort of newness and the process that which is which is interesting, which will you she's genuinely interested in making it work commercially. So he was talking about like this stuff is sound. He was really excited about that. You know? He's a canny businessman. Yeah. That was cool. Okay. Well, we cannot talk about the return to tailoring and menswear without talking about Headley man's debut menswear show for selene the first ever menswear show for slain by anybody. You had to look at it based on pictures I had the opportunity to attend. But I'm curious, you know. You know in curious to know what you think because obviously there is quite a big reaction to head. He's first selene collection that was mostly women's where back in October. Now, what did you make of this? You menswear outing. Speaking of impresarios. He's he's another great and Presider always has been his sense of occasion is peerless. I do believe that the tent in which the show was staged was on the spot where the guillotine stood somebody told me that we're Lewis extinct that is job of. I did not know that which would you know? No, I would say that sounds like Eddie. I mean is sensitive his sense of place is extraordinarily always. So there was that view of Appleton. Incredible. You could from where we were sitting, and it was unusual like the whole setup for headaches man show was different so gone where those like benches sitting behind one another, and, you know, in in like, multiple runways there was just a single walkway and stadium style seating. And all of us wherever you are sitting could look all the way down from the plus plus conquer old all the way down the show, these to the octa Cleofe at night time, just as a son had said, it was kind of incredible and the energy, and there was it just felt different from right? When you walked in. You know, it was it was it was like he was try as much as he could. He was trying to signal an openness doing something a little bit different. If not a revolution and the music he used Canadian collective from Vancouver. Everything is. Challenge in an education. All of that. He is a details, man. And I thought looking at the clothes. You know, I was said this about about his time at center onto I could walk in even though the shows might seem to have been steered towards, you know. You know? Sort of. Andrew jeans, and I'm will the very end drudge Innis. Cool. Out of the cool kids, and you. Always things for people like me in the shops. And then went looking at that collection. I felt I felt the same way there were does beautiful coat. There were the codes for amazing. There was this mazing leopardskin coat, which was normally fabulous leopard coat and all of us are not wanting to hold right now. I was definitely feeling it too. But I think I think. The the overriding thing there, though, is that so much has happened. Since Eddie was the fierce ruling Deavere of Russian at and Sarah, and the colors fashion of change so much in quite a short space of time. If you use him as a yardstick that. You know, he is now one voice of of many. But for some reason that boys in the context of this like avalanche of street where felt. Interestingly. Relevant. So let's see I mean. Some people were saying to me one buyer said to me, I have a really hard time seeing how men are going to go into a store that's called selene and buy things. So let's see I think the first the first products are going to be hitting stores, very very soon. And we're going to start to see a rollout of heads new store. Concept LVMH is pumping a lot of money into this this new era selene, so it's all going to happen quite quickly now so will watch wait and watch. I guess there was another selene making news in Paris in Las few days. You wanna tell us about Celine? Dion. I missed that. Yes, she picture of you on Instagram shaking her hand because my one of my best friends has been touring with who. Of my friend, JoAnne and New York has been touring with us. I I said. My friend Joanna spin join with you, blah, blah, blah. Yes. I'll say Hello few. She was extremely gracious. Did you tell her you have a Canadian passport? No. Why would I tell her that? She still she. Well, yes. I mean, we sing Canada. She could she do that. Very well, I'm not sure I'd be as good as. She she. She's a couturier. Yeah. Addict. I asked her what she does with all their old couture. And she said that she can't pot with anything. And she said she's building a four storey house to to contain her enormous number of clothes. But she was at she was at a few shows of she was we couldn't see Valentino. But but she was crying at the end. She's got what she was. She was extremely emotional. Apparently the other shows she went to I was sitting just too peppy a peppy who was a companion of Pepi away from at. At Ronald van dekum, and she was incredibly excited by what she was seeing in that show and. You know, it's it's it's lovely. And it makes it kind of makes you ponder that age old question that's been going around fashion ever since I started working in fashion, which is a tour relevant. Is it gets people emotional it creates this excitement and enables us to see incredibly beautiful creations. The funny thing this season, admittedly, couture man's where diet will more or less diametrically opposed say that they're appoints where they not connect in ways never connected before. But there was so much energy around two season. Yeah. And there was such a buzz at at the shows. So let's talk about the buzzy shows. Now with. We. Yeah. You know, what can you say that Valentine radical, right? I missed it again. But. Home. I I was. Reflecting on it. Just dress after dress after dress that was about and casting the costing every it was. Yes, this is the other thing that that intriguing about couture this season the. The relevance. The relevance of it in ways on precedent for the the actual medium. I mean Pierpaolo petrole again was his season man of the season, many ways menswear and end too. Had been thinking about how. Cuccia was the preserve of rich white women and black women didn't get a look in. And even when ebony magazine went to Paris to shoot close. They made the black editors by the close. They wouldn't loan them to them. I mean, you think about this sort of berry stories of racism that are coming out now in Franken Sanni who was a very good friend of Pierpaolo address, this this sort of racism, casual and otherwise ten years ago when she did a black issue of talian vogue. And I think he's he's very struck about how people forgotten that. And how fashion forgets so he in the show he wanted to make that kind of statement and so three quarters of the models were black models. And I mean, he didn't he didn't make it a big he said, I don't want it to be a big political thing. But he said, you know, to have a black model where presenting one of the oldest finest Roman couture has a real slow. Lap in the face to Italian xenophobia, and he wanted to wanted to make a statement more about how you can change people's point of view through aesthetics, which is something we talked about a lot of voices. Yeah. Right. This platform in our industry of this imagery that spreads all around the world and imagery has power and subliminally infects people's points of view. And so that's what I mean. Valentino infects your point of view on so many levels show. There were a lot of superlatives in your review. Yeah. And my review was muted compared to because I didn't go to town on the dresses because it didn't seem necessary. Look at them. You see them what I loved was the sneakier fill the most subtle thing that he puts absolutely incredible. What you might call day where in there as well with Mazen Cala combinations. And just the sort of sporty languor which. It was just exquisite. It was interesting. Remember last season? He everybody all the models had this gigantic hair. Remember, Kaya Gurbuz hair? I mean, it was like it was like teased out. Wanted to. She could hold ahead up. Really Princess PINA tally have from the golden days of Alta Moda. All models had really really tight little heads on on the show. And it was all was his incredible for all the extravagance. It was sense of discipline. That was. The sense of the sort of this. It felt like a manifesto in a way that you know, in a way, this is what life can be this is what fashion can be so interesting, right because. To see. Pier. Paolo and Maria Grazia, go their different ways. You see if almost feels like Pierpaolo has been like liberated somehow, and we never saw him do anything like this when they were together at Valentino these expressions of vity volume, the volume's Valentino when always sees. Yeah. Very sort of cerebral columns. Yeah. But you know, but nobody has done volumes. Like this since this is sitting that Joe I thought this is what it must have been like to be to show fifty years ago. Would you would see? Those dresses coming out from Balenciaga or from deals. Somebody those amazing dresses that we only ever saw photographed in black and white, and you know, and I said and my review that that Penn and Richard Avedon would be wasting at the door to whisk them away that have that have the dresses for one night to shoot them. And he Pierpaolo talked about its commitment to classic Gutu. He said he's not interested in modernizing it he's because in a way the that the same time as he does contradict themselves. Sometimes he does he's not looking at the pass to do what he does. But he's he wants the classic codes. He wants to elevate the classic codes. And then in a funny way that becomes such timeless because. You know, I say to people sometimes imagine people looking at these clothes and three or four hundred years of what are they going to be thinking and designs? You know, what's he on? But he actually said yes said, yeah. What are they he's he looks forward to he'd liked the idea of people looking at his these dresses and five hundred years museum exhibition about who and what were those creatures, but it's interesting talking about modernizing couture because. Clear way. Klay Cala was the other. Standout for major surprise standout. Right. I mean, she's been her first a collection was very strong. I thought the last one was the first to the second. He's respectful and very big. Yeah. Was too big. And I kind of it left me really cold this one. I just love what I'm s- going. What happened? She said she said she this one she did for her. This went last one was bad voluntarily. And you know, that's obviously going to be like. Acting. Right. You're doing something for somebody else. It's performance Shiites. And Omar, it's exactly you're exactly right. And this one she said, this is this was for me. This is my start. And I mean, just the fact she used the way she is latex luscious, latex, really. Where would you where would you wear latex normal chain of events while you know, where you'd really a lifestyle leading ten exact amount. She she was thinking of intern. She said this is my lever. And so she had this sort of latex under latex foundation for for a lot of the clothes which which stunning stunning. You've got that high gloss Spacey's sort of liquid kind of thing happening underneath these clothes. But it was just the she, you know, the thing that I loved was was half thrilled. She is to be doing what she's doing she sheets. She's actually pension itself. All the time that she can't believe it's really happening. And and to have that kind of it's not naive ac-. But that kind of real what is kind of naive it away. Wow. Look at look at what I've got what I've got to play with and look what I can do with it. It's so infectious, and then the collection itself was the use of Colorado was gorgeous the. The dynamism and the clothing, you know, if I if if I was looking for new couture, if I was if I was a woman who, you know, who's dabbling who's hedge funding has been just bought himself a three hundred million dollar apartment in New York. And he said gone by yourself. Nice little couture. Wardrobe? Yeah. You'd be looking at Giovane she to to kind of reflect where you were you, you have Valentine's feel amazing dream time. And then you'd have seven she four other things there were to kind of really visually striking shows also heiress fan Herpin and John Galliano Marcello. Do you wanna talk a bit about those what I just want to say that with with the the the classicism of Valentino? Fresh in our minds that to have two statements like respond hoop and and John Galliano in the same day couple of days in the same timeframe would talking about the vitality. Dynamism the buzz around couture with those voices. You can understand why that would be the case the respond Herpin. I think she's beaming her inspirations from outer space or something because those clothes exactly other worldly and the effects that she gets using the using technology extraordinary ways. And then Gagliano just has reached peak where that show began in chaos and ended in the sort of rigor of these black. These like black shrouds is black. Very restrictive. Looks which would like the libertine path from from excess to enlightenment, and I think that in the funny way, he's becoming. Fashions great social commentator, a really really look forward to to what he does. It's it's an abstraction of what we're seeing in the world around us, but it's an credits incredibly vital. And then you have the always the kind of pinnacle of couture at Chanel and this year at Chanel show. There was like a breathtaking moment for different reasons, and you in our both sitting there, and at the end of the I thought was really nice Chanel show and Carlton commode at the end. And then they made this really strange announcement saying that he was going to appear at the next show. And then he didn't appear at that show. Either. Have you ever heard? Chanelle or call himself described himself as tired. No, nobody seems like the last person to indefatigable knows this was sitting there and that the the door open and vision VR came out, and she's done that with he's being walking out with him last few shows and and. He didn't follow her. And in that voice said, ladies and gentlemen, it was Michelle biz voiced by the way. Ladies and gentlemen, and he to sweat. Oh, I know it was my my heart actually started beating fast because I didn't know what they were about to say. Did you hear anything about it afterwards and lots what we're saying? Well, it was it was room is flying around all over the place. Now, he was. He was being tied. And and. The snow was falling heavily. He didn't feel like going out. It's funny because I was thinking. The set for that show that beautiful Mediterranean villa with this woman pool and the trees palm trees cypress trees and the orange trees full of oranges incredible Chanel Trump effect in the Grand Palais where they build an entire world inside the Guam Pele. And the bride was in a bathing suit. You know, ready to the pool, but you're breath was frosting in the air. Freezing. It was weird incongruous. But I felt the set didn't really go with the close because the message will getting that had been thinking about his favourite period, which was the century and the beautiful collection. It was. It was a very serene. Gentle collection or that wonderful. You think fit with this? I wondered I just want evening to me than day. Right. Did. Yeah. Definitely was dusk in the villa. Yeah. The sky was day sky was sky dusk. But you know, it it it felt to me less Mediterranean, more Parisian. Court something really was going to the eighteenth century element. And then the hair and the makeup was quite nineteen eighties instead of seventeen. It was it was one of those sort of. You know, one of those. Chanelle shows where you can feel his protean mind rampaging through and sadly place get to pick his brain after we couldn't unpack and detangle what was left to own devices. Yes, exactly what we're all hoping he's okay and has overcome his tiredness, and we'll see him in a few weeks at the women's where ready to wear shows that are just a few weeks away. Tim. But I guess that's all the time. We have for today, we will be back after the next round ready where shows to pick your brain again, and catch up on everything happens at fashion week for those of you who are listening and want to hear more from the inimitable, Tim blanks. You should sign up for professional, and you can read all Tim blanks. Brilliant musings thoughts and analysis on the fashioned shows that happen at the beach or fashion capitals. All around the world. We're just about to kick off the next season. So it's never too late. But that's all the time. We have for this week. This is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion and thanks again. Tim, thank you and tune in next week for the next episode of inside fashion. We look forward to hearing your comments if you have any ideas for us on people you want to hear or meet on the bureau of podcast and Email, podcast business fashion dot com. Leave us a comment. Give us a review, let us know what you think of this weekly podcast, which is gaining popularity around the world. Thanks a lot by by.

Paris Valentino Kim Jones Virgil founder and CEO London Craig green Tim blanks Pierpaolo Milan Kim Kim New York Valentine Pierpaolo Calvin Klein Imran Ahmed Gagliano editor Kim Jones Paris Milan Tokyo
A-Cold-Wall Plots Next Chapter in Milan | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

00:00 sec | 11 months ago

A-Cold-Wall Plots Next Chapter in Milan | Inside Fashion

"The best time of company being able to achieve us no philosophy and values have managed throughout the collection was put forward is nowhere near the end goal. It's light years ahead of what was initially debuted. The first few times I experienced the Cold War was I can do this. This recognition of the power of the ID and yes you yourself quite a Cold War. Yeah uh-huh and this is really interesting process. You sold them all. This is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of Fashion Asia and welcome to a very special episode of the Bureau of podcast. This week our editor at large Tim blanks sits down with Samuel Ross designer owner and founder of the London based Fashion Label. Cold Wall during this men season Samuel has moved his fashion show from London to Milan. And it presented an opportunity for Tim Blanks to sit down with Samuel to take stock of the five years since he founded his label. Back in two thousand fifteen. Samuels business was self funded and inspired by the British. This class system reflecting on his personal story growing up in Brixton in a working class neighborhood and studying design in this wide ranging conversation Tim Explores Samuels sales personal story his rise to becoming one of the most important menswear designers in London and his decision to move his show to Milan here. Are Tim. Blanks and Samuel Ross inside fashion either. This is Tim. lancs woods at Samuel Ross from a cold wool will and he has a lot of very exciting new developments on the horizon. So this is a conversation very much looking forward to. I guess we start with the big news at the moment. which is that You will be showing your next collection in Milan next week in did a sand. I'm I'm very curious as to how that came about. But because that seems like a very big step I think that you know the step trust came how often the crossing paths spent quite every time we've we've In Jones in Carolina rush of off to the CG Q. and During that conversation which of course led to the the prize in the award was quite expensive. Showing and explaining whether will be heading and that primarily easy You know sophisticated. menswear speaks to a young generation Breach Point between St wet and high fashion in a different slant on what we see and I think that it must have resonated to certain certain degree that physician and they went full to ask your phone your virginity to potentially show in immanent fashioned fashioned On the British Fashion Council as defined a from tomorrow on. What's wrong Tamar which is it google map? My business partner business of course He also was incredibly helpful in procuring. That relationship in making sure that This is what I understood what was put forth by the way Milan. Now you you have a very Highly developed others you of of of Menswear of industry. What does it mean so you will you do? Not You know what it means to show men's lowering the land entice you it means A maturing of compensation of dialogue of ideas it means a refinement the sense of refinement to be full and familial really only fools like I couldn't comfortably move forward into next steps and stages of a cold rules seminal growth and the more conservative -servative approach to Menswear Manana foods showcasing. The next step Nicole was journey in in in that C- in that place ice amongst good company and how as it affected your actual your approach to the actual design the clothing knowing that. You're going to be showing what I suppose is still the epicenter of Man Slim. Well it feels like the opportunity. The conversation Powell out pus Rebuff one could sail having a bit of time to have more introspective. Look at how does a cold will wish to grow For years to come and walk comments Resonate with myself. thusly before any brand sucato persona do I wish to stand by for fourth and bring forth into the wild and I think it also comes with the point of reflection not cold will always now five years old. I'm now starting to think about the next ten to fifteen days his and of course maturing growing Myself and my audience and that's really deeply into the duration of the questions we showed. You said something interesting that how you see your career. I guess you'll live. You'll career reflects that obviously as blow to man the boy to manhood this is popular funneling suck a coal is five years old and assuming that you were the boy the beginning our old would you say you are at this moment. Five via landmark. The five point had said specifically he the shift that we've seen in the sixty five exhibit and the shift that will see Around Fifteen fifteen years old was put full his nowhere near The end goal. It's it's slightly ahead of what was initially when she debuted at say so the two manual. You Yo- sort of maintains the sky. So yeah and so. You're going to Milan as it's the beginning of the next chapter chapter. It is leaving home in a way that she was like the nineteen Or to manage that fuss started to Matured Mature Muturi to brandon a maturity of most footfalls. And in a fine way standing on your own two feet totally not because it's new landscaping. It's a new Audience Demographics expectation And how close would be received is completely different than if feels ashtrays incredibly liberating to be able to have the opportunities that she's seminal nine point in browns history to show show this new slum or tin facet of a coke will. I've never felt this align with welcoming half full out of a coat will as most people are Who has been ally up into the year full cool? I'm gay free now. Point where Structure we have a team in place. I'm able to ought to get it myself undestanding more rules in laws of menswear and how people wish to be dressed in how they wish to express themselves you Brahmins reading. What's coming out right now? It's no longer saudi-based on oneself amnesty. She of self expression. That's an artistic endeavor a Cobra menswear random luxury menswear grant is shoot and is the sense of servitude in quantity heavy Ideology now which bit more unclaimed before in my offering I thank you use the word ideology. That's very interesting because a cold will is everything. I've read everything you've said everything I've seen seen in the past this philosophy and and there's a level of research and a and a kind of clarity of thought which is kind of interesting it feels so it feels sell an elliptical. It's almost counterintuitive. It's not like this sort of it. Didn't feel like a wildly instinctive gotta do it. Sort the other thing. It felt like this really research project and you know your background is graphic art. And you're not. You're not a fashion person per se but this notion of the project intrigues me. What was a cold wall? I've read so much about. How was your meditation Asian on your working class origins and it will as I started to feel like I was eating like baby Karl Marx or something after a while it was? I'm curious about about that about the very beginning of a cold all and whether that was right when i read about you thinking about way you came from and inserting this consciousness into a fashion context. It it's interesting because as you as you rightly said so much of my. My background is primarily graphic design than than design Working for graphic design agencies companies before stepping into fashions nations And that process of articulation. Your Rice less haphazard. I'd say it's more wall this process of almost fine to coming trying to problem. Solve and trying to articulate Issues using a carrot and says in some type of visual output and talking about the origins of the code will add it reflecting a walking class system when the I. U. Heavily relate to this almost is balanced between reflecting once past overlaying one's immediate environment in household members to sociologist in psychology lecturer at Offensive University degreed violence from CSM sustained thus is in an industrial design. Says this landed approach to express oneself challenge. Yes surrounded by. Yeah I I was. I was schooled for free to four years Wilson in this this road. Studious approach failed his fruit Majority of devops before concluding Cold War. But you're right this deep independent inning to try to reflect a sense of Occurrence Society which may be a little hazy always underpins What's put forth from a Cold War but it's it's kind of a forbidding notion Ecole Wall it feels like it feels like it's keeping you out? They're not only as it keeping you out but it's also call yes so there was something there that that always also the sort little slightly neutral industrial nature of the name you you thought. Oh maybe this is a kind of combine of people. Maybe this is a a cell. It's like a revolutionary cell. Something if a man of course obviously I find out that it's you on. The there was an individual lab. It seemed from from the beginning even though it was totally about you. You didn't want people to know that in a way you wanted to give yourself this kind of anonymity honesty indeed and it was really about understanding my experience. Most likely is not one of my iron batch. She one of demographic in one of a tears in society you being able to have this Mera and were fact reflects reflective him You know what people have experienced within mm-hmm won't even been free. Wasn't exclusive to myself Wisconsin This idea of understanding that you are within a wider ecosystem. Whenever veins in strands of ecosystem experiences often shadow should be shed? And you pull the cell reference overusing reference. Because it's always been about Matt communal Spirit based on shed experience. NFL US really helped to drive a sense of Not just called Bam philosophy into the psyche of the underpinnings underpinnings of a cold woolwich primarily streetwalker before immature moved into New menswear this idea that you had when you looked around you. Was it something that you felt didn't exist. That was needed precisely guy. He's always been savage based on based on united feeling need or finding I wouldn't started them. A clever about having intense rashy delivering the message which was described. And did you think that the reason and why you could see that gap is is that is because he wanted to fashion and so you you could stand back and look at it with a with a with a quite a clean clean on clean graphic I what kind of graphics you doing Lou primarily graphic designer typographic work. And actually I would awesome like it was more. Dieter Rams Brewing lead. Oh yeah specific Zion nine for about a year and a half two years. I was designing fridge components in pulse in very little ways as well as you know like manuals on top of graphic systems not functionality was very exactly miss the initial note. That was in place us For the direction is always about how does an entity foreman. How does Nancy presided by day and communicate two two audits? Cuming Ansi beside Important browns that having Su as soon as poss- United Nation of abrantes moving to entity Complain A. Becomes move. It's almost like you can have data and then you can have apple when he's a grandma and service money's an entity which has a philosophy in Persona Mitch. People feel they can be tools and almost into the saying incredibly interested on the side day of of entity in community existing alongside brandon product. And I always kind of driven Adams difficult whose developer say you say that was that would be. You'll will you edition on the end would would be to become an entity. Ideally S on is this idea of God I'm thank places. Aim high being referenced. Matt where where where foresee any comes down again to just past the readings taking values from different Nerve Facet society pushing him into the brand. I'm kind of rambling a bit. Now GonNA leave the face conversation sation but this is kind of the process which ultimately leads into suit Autism piece of footwear. The has four filtering to icy mixture colline material choice. What's that Tex Yukon draws up but I get that I mean I think when I said forbidding was when you talk about stoicism I mean? It's not necessarily that you go to fashion show collection action of clothing and NC L.. Let you'll be given a less than an endurance on my some fashion shows obviously patients zone but that's very recuse GRANZ philosophical framework on which to hang a suit. Yes I'm it's interesting. I guess I see now. How I'm you know you connected with Virgil AB Lobes e found you on instagram? And this says what you instagram was exploring. I could see how he would think Yes a kindred spirit if he came across my profile fallen on on instagram but we Bush come from the School of design so they've already younes codes in how are Communicate won't display my welcome lion as like a product designer graphic designer would wish he could immediately usually resonate Scoff sex. You Design for design similar ways in which you an individual's Full into market so the nation should be how It was a real working relationship years. Breath refuse often tended to a friendship mobile a younger voter fraud land and big river relationship but it was. It was always based primarily marrone. Yeah this idea of proficient walk coming soul Is What leads drives aspects of what we're doing why we can be from him at the. Yeah the work ethic a sense of fearlessness. I'd say You really do one teach one. Is They don text message Such a I mean. It's something you could have scratched on your chest each. Yeah Super Boy. I I think it's so. How long will you actually actually connected to kind of work so I started looking for Veggel? it was actually leisure Donde says working for the version From the age of twenty two up to about twenty twenty five and was sent out from the work ethic was was being Nia being in the proximity of him and Conway. It did show you ways. You didn't WANNA be. I think that the first time meeting both of them in it was in Paris and it was. ABC Second Presentation. 'cause I was tying up the laced with Timberland boots. You can get your hands Diane. I do. You can As you should do when you're trying to make way in an industry and I think it was more. It was about being transported the different university in addition y. You can imagine you've kind of gone for Uni you've got your first degree onto owns like a design agency and Whatnot Joel. Not Exposed aware of how these other creative industries facets of society Live can walk and carry themselves so that was what was the biggest the point revelation on this being exposed. I say spy is because it is like this moment of like a Pie will remind making up. Komo conscious of how powerful ones will Can Be Web. Willpower can take one. It was a real revelation. Think about Virgil has been quite prophets. I think vigilance being like this vast canvas of various activities. And you know uh when you throw so much against some of it's GonNa stick inevitably. Am I look at what you do. I think focus seems to be not to be a lot more important than a lot more impressive in a way that I've always believed that when you do a lot with Elissalde missile you making much bigger impression than when you do a little with a lawsuit because you must harness intensify the This collection issue again kind of showcases. My own show will slam when you say that my processes is one of studying intensity and function designed. Thinking is probably the best time I could think of to summarize. It's designed thinking and it's reducing this ensuring the irony essential information producting goods facts of an obstacle left behind him. Put the full amount that goes overarching philosophy. That have life is a whole as I mentioned Jeff Route I identify mentioned this. You buy for Evola a fortune fifty products with Christmas holiday heavily. Stidham unions and minimalism as hall at Johann. Yep four hundred fifty products meaning goods. What's The sandy coups own if that? Yeah clegson wondering fifty things this action of throwing out fortune fifty items objects ready came from begins looking to this. Modern Take on mechanism specifically Japanese minimalism and looking at minimalist that Kevin will permanent off the the Turkish nominee hit and handed immediately strung a parallel cooled decide darrow. Functional Design Design thinking equipping fourth ways needed necessary Having the ability to really distant focused on opinion once taste goes from garments just philosophy an ethical moral values and systems and of course that's heavily affected now the original at the close of input for example sample Alaska. She met a total tire At skews existing. Alaska election this season. We're down to around one hundred forty. And that she is he Mr Conway now. It's decided in full of what is essentially what is Versus the shoe simply expressing expressing once opinion. So it's the philosophy of of of having an one beautiful thing yes as better than having on hundred indeed the media. Indeed we'll having system to say a five to ten garments which while he region consistently and it may be that you need. I replenish fast system. Once every six months you fine I think it's very noticeable in the fabrics that you use in this collection at their their opulence but that mysterious indeed and that is you know you could Fascinating so how often would you sit down with the should try and work out what it actually as you're looking at but I did get that feeling feeling when I was looking at some of these things. That's kind of a wonderful emotion to to pass onto people and it feels new for code wool and for myself to be able to connect those dots together. I'm still paying full of refined product which can carry that mystique and can carry that debt intensity and that richness as you said the what Al Qaeda is summarized I'm flat also that you'd say that APP but it definitely feels like it's been time studying refinement and behind the scenes quite extreme change nine chance of business business operations in procuring and building the correct team in division to reflect Complete honesty to myself and to read the brand Should be going into the audience in people who have seen my genuine Jenny taking a real almost avowed avowed to integrity That's how I feel at this point with this collection. Did you feel away. That's why this all talk about the movement away from sweat virgils said street was of 'em when you talk about this when you talk about this notion of refining and reduce singing it is kind of the fantasists of having a hundred trainers and Yep and having a hundred hoodies and and the whole notion of the drop driving people into this compulsive also consumerism It's been difficult to yourself. Fill yourself kind of moving away from that now when people say Street Whiz of I'm what's the what's your onset Batu within a lot. I have done almost like silently for about a year and a half really from the first past. The Second Nike released the Nike acie wwltv Amarah Sneaker was to have a sneaky witch ages and develops over time the youtube critic Katina's in different levels of UV coatings across different panels on the sneak up. It was this idea of extending you know the life cycle lump products which counselors the whole philosophy of for the most part sneak COCCIA Exacting overconsumption and will miss the being an incorrect value system. I don't agree with so that it was the first step away from that way of thinking operating and it's just become even prominent for myself the M sixty five exhibit having lunch patent. We walks amongst seven debt stop fabrics one patent was well months seven deaths duck fabrics says law for over consumption in efficient design and functionality. And I feel like to be on a Tim. I'm just at a point where I'm not. Don't go to panda my output to what may be expected but it's more so really owning the narrative of a cold wool note taking the fuss step in building a really sure unsophisticated negative in fashion but designs a hall And that's where the show really in alignment with it and we need to talk about the m sixty five porject during the London session weekend that we just said you launch A A revision of American military jacket. Cool the M nineteen sixty five which was developed join with the dam which is kind of plastic. Feel jacket and just explain what it is that you did do this. Jacket with the seven dead stop fabrics. which what what each of them so distinct did it was one gunman that distinctly different story with every single is rationing of it and the whole way staged aged In in a the drama fear of of the sort of minimalism on the one hand amendments incredible context that you make reverend so mice. Yeah it actually. It was quite a weirdly spiritual thing on strange range rubber floor that was on the set of aliens. Yes it was it was quite It was very it was very it. hawked back to those amazing amazing shows that you did that. huge leap those intense operatic. I'm quite scary And and DYSTOPIA and and I I guess maybe there's something about the smell of Black rubber that smells like dystopia in the morning but That I know I talked about the m sixty five so you could talk about it a little bit because it was very interesting that the whole thing the trimmings yet you need to mention those office of Awesome Great. It was this deep dive intense. Study into the history of the sixty sixty five richest on one hand such recognisable common but we ever. This anonymous jacket has been appropriated philosophers five decades and it really strong The idea of how does one communicate to a global audience in million of design and in fashion in an ideal of this product which has been purchased in green touched by millions of solves across the wild. Save the right guy to carry a new narrative for speaking to a global audience and having this To your conversation nations Sixty fives that produced from debts dope fabric fabrics. Were a beautiful Italian males would buy impoverish evening. Monta at Mile Qian As you mentioned the fabrics very specific the SONAL There are drama. There are Wait story of course and they each had Attributes for example the base coat. That was a a UV first sensitive Tiv- film that was applied so when it was in UV light it go to rich navy. There was a the cutted m sixty eighty five and underneath this Maroon Lacquer and film. There was a lack finish in over time. The Marin Lacquer repeal and you get this beautiful Cotinine frigates Jackie O miss living a movie in. I'm breathing. It was only as as the agenda to create a time lapse US throughout time. With how m sixty five can evolve and how it can given on the other hand during an amazing opportunities to kind of showcase study. This is going into a passing coaching in impact. Making I'm finding a pound the walk across all these different materials and still being -joyed succumbed to the fabric. But that she can pont we've it. So we produce seventy five Jackson total weed out the Public Armenian circle sign up to the opportunity to view the exhibit but to potentially run at the jackets free of costs Seventy five of these. MCC five Italian males London juice jackets which was palpable were given out to select individuals who signed up to the exhibit. And how did they sign up. They signed up for my website. Seventy five people signed up on your website. Yes common. See this artifact U. N. B. Accepted one day in free of cost. Wow and it's this idea of altruism and sharing knowledge and information rich. You talked talked about the different relationship with you'll leave your customer. Gacy Co yes IMO. Her that's not a sustainable Notion on a on a on a on a grand scale but no but it's interesting to look at how marketing budgets can be phased in mole altruistic menace and Essentially what we did we tip to Quavo mocking budget. It should have been used for a global campaign achy. We decided to her. She ends this activation At speaking communicate directly to autism loveless bliss and intellects the seventy five people. That would give him a jacket again. This is turning point for potable with how they operate they've had pigs united United We People's Interests hobbies knock you patients in them we let people were aligned with the philosophy fi over cold rule and I think s completely healthy to do is ensuring correct people given the opportunity to understand digest the product got NSF as their notion of becoming ambassadors. In a way there is is aligning with the correct individuals. Hold the same value system sauce so in almost yes. But it's more if feels more sincere We don't really believe in like the social media influence. Yeah I believe in. The intellect and yachts is on the individual who knows who they are and wants to better oneself and had boost fawns to to to the the the idea I mean. I'm really curious when I walked into that room because there was a huge range of curious. That the seventy eight five seventy seventy five. Yes what people gravitated towards. Because I am like a kind of med Chi on the orange one at my Zia towards the same thing so so allied but what did nice people kind of and the blue one gorgeous as well but what did people see. It was also very soda yet. Lack one that was a navy when there was the tie one that was refined sculptural life on the space station is interesting because immediately the the saturation the orange brings forth just pose ones. I immediately in silver again again. The segment with the blue Trade non won't but Was the memory. RIP The black Sixty five years. Not Buoyancy Between Symphony is still quite abstracted but still has layer functionality. Juice the color of course we do the MCC fine Will you put it in the collection as there isn't him sixty five immigration Yes that I that you sell as anyone can exactly that it has has a beautiful wash on it but it's a different pound block. I'm excluding successor different paths but it will be referenced moving forward but this was really You're an exhibit which felt to be honest and there was no secondary agenda and if it was like let's communicate audio. GMI philosophy unless Be Convenient compromised and treeless. Listen whom you wish to speak to an proposition two off community we've talked about the MCC five quite a lot. But I think the thing that intrigues may was it came with a book about the process. Creating the incredibly detailed technical manuals like building a fight yet you know it was so complex and it seems to me that that that's always been a very important thing to you. I'm the emphasis on process and You provide an enormous amount of data around what you do. It's interesting 'cause you know. Fashion is an emotional business and respond to clothing in an emotional way. So it's intriguing to be given This cold kind of boil down to swim real miniscule nuts and bolts page after page of debate. It's almost like build your own jacket now. I wonder why you do that. Y Y you obviously have a very very kind of you have a very linear mind. That's lateral but it's very intense intense detail it's it's I feel like OCD. It's it's the easiest way for me to process information myself most likely so sleman sharing element of my own learning process and mirroring that to individuals into Kishi Musin into market itself. And it's funny because I spent two days writing saying that. That booklet for before eight ages and somebody from NASA was agreed. Tease free end of the morning warning may decide Of I'm not going to actually speak about is just going to write this in that people dive into it themselves and the way hung in front of the government is almost like a proposition. You know. He's like Red Pills Louisville. You can sit here and just to join the Jackie you can really understand why Ya Yup okay what you say red pill. I'm there is something of that that as well as being something of that in cold tricks that this is surreal. Like you really want to you. Anyone shape check people's sense of of Vanity at talking points and talks Shift what the expectation is again from a brand but from an entity why would expect is trying to problem solve of what I necessarily haven't seen from of brands and trying to fill the gaps and sometimes you get it wrong. Sometimes it's heavy. We spoke about et of nineteen lead Time comments made but not necessarily the best way to communicate the comments So he's also a process of taking there's risk taking more risks and understanding what kind of fits inclination to assist Doing face And I'm happy to have that public Learning happen would it you you you said that one thing you learned from Virgil was fearlessness on Wednesday one thing that impressed US fearlessness. You know there's a fearlessness in pretension and I think very pretentious in there it was when I was getting the fiscal times. I experienced the Cold War was I can do this. Yes do this. It was a sense Louisiana's in this recognition of the power of the idea and yes and boom and it was you'll quite fierce your annual you will the full you will forbidding you. You were yourself quite a cold wall. Yeah and this is really interesting process. Because you're you became a file your new saw it did and look at these close now. I love following people's stories. And what they do and what was seen seen a lot of stories. Yeah you can see not at something as simple as softening Matt changes your home. You've seldom totally an is. It called one hundred percent and sometimes I think about it says on this is such a a coercive name that I have is point. Whining sounds a bit more MCC five but you're right that was fast this Excitement of having tools and being able to communicate an expressed Opinions and hold attention with these tolls but actually that was Almost I said the end of the first shop. A code will as mentioned Daddy. The first free for years primarily expressing myron experience which is a shared experience as soon as that at checkout been closed it was all my this point of wandering myself as a designer and understanding. Do I WANNA be cost. an autistic Individual US close as a media or do I want to be and for a proposition of menswear and of course I went to menswear route which felt the most natural belief that is the pudge a whole the animated animated aspects By may have been notable at this point. It's a conversation about systems of its heavy bodied in the product versus once once ego and I say eager in in the sense of but I haven't ego but in the sense of awareness to oneself I saw the brand is to be Mira to to reflect Necessities needs within the luxury fashion market or they staff proposals put forth in that market example we started setting or conceals hardware online which savage packs of trims I'm fully branded from ready to Mainland elections which are being offered and sold to consumers at Twenty pounds of pack. Five six trims genesis idea of democratising weighing which brand can communicate or Ansi Communique rivers audience. And how does that actually work. You mean you can personalize nationalize the plunge rhino inferior. Yes it's again. The expectancy all the code will consume on the truth is the shooting was disquiet. It's quite intellectual The quite curious and they want to know about protests About Washington about die when about trim wait it went about wral. CATIS is offering hardware components literally Packets of Zits police which we've whose costs into custom shapes unmatched specific pantaloons to the audience offices sense of trust and personalization for much more democratic price. If she can't for the twelve hundred definitely folk the TRIMs Forty Pounds and I know that mocking shooting. We'll take that to the right Taylor and it will be applied in the correct manner. So consoles Design cashews can engage with without being priced out. Is there anybody else else doing anything like this. I don't believe so to this point. I haven't seen or found anywhere else during pack from you. Yes of decorative elements of yes. What buttons like snaps translate polls and they need to specialize Taylor successful? MOWATT WATT will lead. They could be fixed in a makeshift man. If I know that the the demographic regards to a title and it will be applied appropriately improperly with amounts indeed indeed. I've all it will it will. It'll be aft- It gives us opportunity for brands and ends tasting different ways next fashion. At how do we keep you know. The pendulum swing moving forward. And this idea of in solves charing segue anyway Ten Shah downloadable files to open source housing It's the same pyro codes. He's doing now will test out We've in fashion is widely Design Communication and the future. Oh fashion future designs it sort of ties into what what people are doing with three D. printing exactly that yes. Yep but so you said where it's going whereas whereas guy will win with. Where do you see this leading? I mean you know the m sixty five was you talk about the democracy of that notion that democracy of the VM applying Writing Online for TRIMs Fuel Garments and so on That eventually you'll you'll design becomes. It comes collaboration with your customer like really collaborate becomes the system doesn't it it becomes a pool. I'm really necessary. The whole fast is going to systems and assistant base Punch up rations. But that's why I'm really passionate about is building systems. Awesome functional proficient design offerings around in the wild around the clothing. So that's what I'm really. How Neil that's Canal becoming a macro point over code wall is that an intensive information on the why that leads is because we believe the future of fashion design has to be open source and has room to be system. Betty sent his room to asset in point based on functioning technicality. Not An internal detailing while as it does to continue to operate baseless emotion me. She mentioned earlier and this includes notions like secularity already in upside Langan's yet and this is you feel this is a future. This is a future all of those ideas indeed. Yes confident about it. It's interesting because as sort of Futuristic elements in the product. You know that that it. It's it's an. It's almost an intriguing paradox. Set this even though you'll close us so Maden. They're very consoling. YEAH WAY IN A. I wonder if that's also something do with yours. So the newly honed paternal instance at your. You're feeling I believe Saturday ritual. Indeed in this dislike spirituality that I've been the sense of this being spiritual beings become more relevant of course as Michael to grow since as myself and my fiancee begins once the next phases in in life but also this This amalgamation between whites truly important to an individual. I'm one's existence and how and steam brand can interact with Donald in that conversation and I think that's you know the consoling Comforting organic notions assigned to make a lot of sense. The mole Macabre tokens on in corrosive elements almost floating away. And what you're seeing is almost a canoe shallow new skin. But she's the true Informat Conformed now will you sit entity today. See I'm I wonder how many people know that you have a cathedral tattooed on your head. Yes tattooed by by Maxine sang blue. I'm who will start. He do this. I'm going to say Heavily involved in the recurrence logo go his tattooed. Many is quite well known Close friend but it goes back down to this idea of off potentia being able oh to govern Once feeding severance a space and the physical when the metaphysical beings are heavily tied together We get deep now. These will use his. which which people are seeing Ed between show if you look at the the set that we've built Bob contextual is a series of structures The stroke she's also aligned with the direction you seen of 'em sixty five the olive as in line with the new way books haven't given this show you haven't given the show in Milan teisal type. So it's it's more open proposition proposition than it's ever been before precisely that precisely that and show light powered out to defeating that was brought full from Latest exhibitions. What can the space undefeated? You're on the proposition versus myself feeling the need to govern culling define it. You know the first time again you know would you sing in refining down. The common offering honing in tightening up the proposition of garments put forth is this moving openness. Now this moves securitate not in not having to protect him define the while because much people into the wok into cost unappealing onto it. Because I'm incredibly comfortable the walk at this point do you do you feel that you've that you kind of your emblematic of changes in the fashion industry. That that being the debate over the last few years in fashion about inclusivity and diversity and so on and you know Virgil becoming a figurehead yet and The industry making very earnest efforts to open up. Do you feel you. You are part of those changes. Yes yes in I would say so And I it is an interesting one because I feel like it's naturally happened. An event in regards to increase civility. The conscious awareness to one. Could cost down a serendipity as well because my todd endeavour has been of course financially just to produce What is good in an an an resonates with with people it's time but of course so DP woven into coal is the story of the head voice one could say and typically society that manifests itself as a walking class often people class? You never talked about condo judge. What was really interesting? Yeah and it's because a small the important so the visibility of Alabama just in but also having a full spectrum shown because of close. I'm incredibly proud of that carrying heritage in Black British heritage but I've shed seventy narratives up down this country people different walks of life in different ethnicities in different places. I'm heavily focused on telling the full communal story and having full representation at this point now if he thinks the first again. is primarily minority and that wild shown in in the costing of models shown in in. He was walking the shows in front campaigns. But as I feel that I've almost expressed as much as I can in that space again one into touch upon what isn't being spoken on and that being a more global civilization which I believe is the future Michigan strings into the slide day of the pursuit of futures announcer is and making sure that manifesting that as much as I've shown a mosh to the present I am. The boss is so interesting that the same we see happening in London. That really isn't happening anywhere else To to the same degree With the people at Grace Wells Fargo and you design us who present with with a monetize so yes And almost like a week. Well grace does give you a reading list and it's a very interesting it's I I find that fascinating remaining development because there's a sense of responsibility or accountability. That feels it feels new to me because I guess it suggests me designers appreciate. They have a voice in they have to use the voice. Now don't speak out the new Yukon Yeah you can't complain about what's going on. I was thinking that the some you quite endearing about designers who are willing to be honest about what's happening in speak about happening and show that they are still connected unconscious. Oh Oh the realities of wild in people's living from day to day he's outside of our you know and I think it's it's it's a responsibility to some degree by must be passionate must being formed before one is speak we can actually be quite damaging in. I'm I'm quite dangerous as well for like false information to put full and false experienced before there's a lot of like mind backing now for the motions on on on the nation necessarily want people who do not care and apathetic to speak on Mattis Touches Reysen Civil Welfare and ethics in Politics Society's hall but the people who do can you up when formed in our industry. I'm three should provoke opinions Because this idea social conscious should be raised and should be encouraged juice. I believe people responsible when you do that. Or do you. Still feel is a little bit of But of cynicism about fashion designers speaking out on things I think he's improving and you'd Every figure out this is just a dream he easiest dreaming of society that is true. Yes and it's important to do so. I supposed to have consistent changes in health. We've full but I think when you begin to want to speak do of course People hadn't started maybe take the nations of seriously injured. He believed in trying to get behind. Cool about showing. Respect is is sharing a alignment allegiance to to positives. Now she's being put into the EPA which which is important and Imendia. Close the common kind of As it embassies would your clothes come kind of ambassadors so your world view at that point if people if people see if people are made aware of things like respect to crossed. Yeah and You you know the importance of appreciating the woods something rather than just moving on Pell Mell to the next big thing you know. It's your compelling a way of looking at things I mean. I'm looking at those clothes and I'm seeing. I'm seeing this all sorts of elements in the club. Thing that that make you stop and think so at this again I'm speaking honestly. Probably the best time of confidently be able to achieve personal philosophy values. I have an manifest that promote the collection Without having to maybe look away from anything is the first time the two In line in its sharing a a few but it's also sharing I'd say philosophy and that philosophy being proposition in product but also again making sure that reading materials terrorist president So justifying why these these positions are coming full to an audience to to ensure and I think a lot of my practice about the heavy Rationalize ligon showing Dissertation stems from just DNC. She came from design and being conscious of Justifying Y. You're making something can why simply must exist is incredible or you shouldn't be racing time. Sean be wasted. So when should know what they wish to put forth on a why not that needs to be interrogated but this should be a real reason to and of course a cold will start off as a dissertation beside before any proposition gama was full. It was always just two thous Off ADONTA I'm spending time in in the UK in London right about what was happening here. In contrast what was happening in Paris will renew your I'm that's that's that's a that's actually what we've been talking about how it's moved from dissertation to this from a intellectual exercise to actually. Maybe it's a more instinctual statuary society and there was this sort of physicality to it now. Mind will say the boy demand is is. It's been lying to the body of the two in Cajun for is one may have been slightly more obtrusive than ever. Now the to feel like they're incomplete balance. What I'm writing in saying this clear skies less hetty? She's always helps. But was you can see it in Proposal of comments on the offering put forth the to align whereas previously may be there were moments when I was actually speaking speaking to the wrong demographic as well and it wasn't necessarily connecting that was right in my graphic speaking to two now. There's this complete honesty to speak to the people who are daily respected. Find Interesting Those are the artisans the Novalis the people enjoy education learning design processes are rather than age. Group is exactly that this is a completely Thomas. Propose will not be showing in the collection By means of costing as well you know this idea of time lapse in time being quite in physical space is really interesting dressing society of the metaphysical coming back into play as listening to this talk job also last night seven. tolkien designing Badeah by. I was talking about how how physicality can render metaphysical habits. You kind of overlapped. In a sense of emotion that will be seen Tangibly conjugate costing Gum Colle- colored tone. All of that will be in play. Do you feel a sense of urgency. I feel a bit more at ease. Now because the collection is finished and there was an agency to reengineer at Dismantle cough away 'em reconstitute. CUSI myself as I move closer to fast in February two fatherhood Robinhood and secondly you're twenty eight now twenty wild. It's GONNA change on talking watching watchman go out on days but by no longest There was a rush to enlist followup. A decision should live consciously May Mayes Be Offering envision on philosophy myself and it will be a line difficult we previously. I felt a little wanted to join us. If you can you can show at. Yeah I mean I think he's a value system based on on a colletti education the odds and and critical fault is probably the best way to put it and that being Uh the truth and I feel like I'm really telling my truth now and I haven't felt like that since maybe the fast second year of Colt will you said. Your Dad was pasta. He was a he was a NIA Christian Left is Pasta in Marxist Wrexham in late eighties nineties and you'll mama's yes ocean psychology. Ventura Gra. Can you see yourself as parents. Trial offer for transfer often back of a slight. I envy like you've already I see value system. The Bait put forth in the lives that they still continue to Has Really Hey check me. Sits on Sunday And I see my father in myself more more every day just in times of growing compassion Ashen. It's interesting should go onto wikipedia random but relative for my father is listed as a a philosophical mystic. who actually influenced the folk process of a a a philosopher whose Asiatic now goes by the name of Mucci Malians views on YouTube He will say you had his mind. Louis Mucci an AH Eugene. I am jail yet the firm into Youtube video of us. But this is a testimony that's emitting my father when it beings philosophical list of cool waking so actually the value proposition on putting full heavily existed My family line lineage. Freia it just almost continuing to that narrative I'm one of nizing. The means in which is told is the notion heroism. Intrigue you. Yes it does pot lunches pot subconscious Being one of the cousins From MHM Cousins younger sister have made a decision that I want to be the anchor with the family at always. Be The point of the Healthy if need be in that BAFFLES AFI is definitely carried full into this idea of delivering a a concise rated message. Fruit means of quotable. You'RE GONNA need to have a local children's Italian something outset. I'm Virgil once said about you to on your relationship is that you would part of a much bigger game than fashion. And he actually did mention the word revolution At you feel about that notion Eh. Fashion might just be one thing you're doing in as as you'll the in the sort of cultural God that is is not just about changing the way people dress but in the way people live. I think it's it's I I is quite is is correct I can occur. It's true I believe fashion is always going to be a microphone. Communication and it's one of the most Intelligible Israel and emotional ways to speak to people regardless if the topic is emotional Some definitely invested in in in communicating. Hang for comment. But also I do operate Industrial designer who now designs funchess public. Space I want the H- Blow Design Award at seven signed. Galleries is a tempo which is brilliant showing public funded Shah and this this this refuge point I developed which was to be placed in public spaces as a point of emergency For for those in needle who are less fortunate. I cannot develops a Antifungal Blanket which took recycled Polyester plastic bottles way went into a Fred which was pad with a aluminium threat which accosts pushed away from body. An accident cleanse which is fabric related by Snot. Fashion related is public service and industrial design. Coming full so there is wjr almost Allegiance to a greater cools which really is embedded in altruism servitude and pushing for the the public psyche and the collective consciousness which is a real thing and actually justice passionate on those. That is as I do. When I'm creating a collection of putting full-fat proposal will from one to five and the sting a new chapter do you have in your mind what you want the next chapter to be the chapter off the Bat? You talk about ten fifteen years. Can you see a coal in fifteen years you it's interesting. How many offshoots you you do from that settlement coal shoot-off until these companies under different names often? Hi It's closed. Concrete objects like that name is brilliant into. SRA now summary was associates. Stay but it's a slow burn. Fat One is one or two public Compensations will products a year as. I'm kind of learning again. The excitement and opportunity versus boy is necessary conducive walk So a polyphenol takes stick cysts. I'm keeping a very quiet fat in St Pauli. Pauli female ticks on Fien Sydney Street. rebrand that up and running for two years. Now she's the cystic brand to a call. And it's very discreet and is very lucky that serves a specific community will continue not to serve that community super bowl and of course that was a few endeavors right now again. We've haiching allowing allowing Noise can full away from. My process is reflected in garments refining. Both side on my mind operates in what is necessary to to be focusing on not necessary. So can you see five years to fifteen I can see ten years ago right now and what does is it. Looks like it. Looks like up systems of government designed it looks like it looks like language and it looks like Dot Com. It will stay as close enough you to fly but it looks like predecessor system looks like functionality on. I'm quite exciting quite excited. Take keep pushing forward in that space continuing the risks. Be a lot more informed as a coach rose. I hope I'm still around to see at San would be around. You definitely be here. Thank you very much there frankie few times. If you enjoyed this conversation you might also be interested in joining global membership community B. O. F. Professional are members receive exclusive deep dive analysis assist in our daily digest email as well as unlimited access to our archive of over ten thousand articles. Our new IPHONE APP special print issues and all of our online courses says and learning materials from education for a limited time only offering our podcast listeners and exclusive twenty five percent discount on your first year of an annual annual bureau of professional membership to get this special offer. Click on the link in the episode not select the annual package. Enter the Special Code. PODCAST twenty nine thousand nine at checkout checkout. We hope you enjoyed this podcast. Please leave us a rating if you did and don't forget to share it with your friends.

Virgil Milan Cold Wall London London MCC Tim blanks Samuel Ross instagram British Fashion Council US youtube Matt Samuel Mr Conway Paris google Menswear Manana
Craig Green Talks Creative Evolution | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Craig Green Talks Creative Evolution | Inside Fashion

"The very very quickly there was a craig green language in every collection starts with an idea tradition. Even maybe in the end. It doesn't look like that when you see it often after a show when you talk about the show you'll very pragmatic. It's amazing certain people were reviews and stuff can kind of see something how's that you didn't even see but it's completely what about you became the sort of tent pole of london fashionably now the mossy show. How does that sit with you where i do not exist exist without london and there's a consideration of yeah if you suddenly move show even if it's for one season there is of course that like worry that are you then moving on <music>. Hi this is ron ahmed founder and c._e._o. Of the business of fashion this week on the video podcast tim blanks sits down with one of our our favorite designers cry green. When i first met craig many years ago he was sitting at one small little table in a studio in east london. He told me he had two and a half employees. I was shocked to see such an incredibly creative talent managing a business with so little resource well craig has has grown a lot since then his creativity has grown and his businesses also grown. He's one of those designers that has had a signature from the very beginning and has found underway of evolving and developing and amplifying that signature in a way that's exciting season after season after season so we're really delighted to have tim blanks blanks sitting down with craig green inside fashion craig here. We are on some day in london. The rain is driving arriving hot on the roof. We can hear it in the distance. It's quite atmospheric. <hes> welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm so glad that we finally get to do this. I'd like to start by talking to you about the last show because <hes> it was i feel shows <hes> our kind of steadily building kind of repertoire of of <hes> uh-huh of statements and it seems to me that business sort of this story imaging now <hes> that that that if you look at the last last six or seven shows that you can feel this sort of like a mythos imaging or something what what what do you think about them. <hes> i mean every season. We'd like a dime think we ever know where we're going to get in the end. It's always very kind of that kind of. I don't know how that goes with this automatic automatics the right word but it's kind of the research prices very wide and say voss select this season. We have a bigger team now so we can develop textiles. We can focus on kind of fit shape and kind of new things in a ways that maybe we haven't previously <hes> so that kind of gives us like the ability to do more but it's it was going to say that that it's fills me that ah preoccupation with the body and <hes> you know it even even say like your signature the little hole in the middle of of unit so this time there was a little hole of the hot mum and this which feels to me like very much you releasing the soul oh but this time there was this skin the kind of was thinking about skin and i and i want to end in all its manifestations from the a horror movie like silence of the lambs to something a lot more almost angelico spiritual. I wonder how researching how those ideas has had. Do you research ideas that do they kind of emerge in the research. Would you have this overall vision. When when you start yeah kind of like how is saying it's likely i mean i was thinking about leather. I guess also the skin as an organ. I think that's kind of like a bizarre idea that you're wearing an in oregon or you're protected by an organ as it goes back to the idea of protection functionality and this is a very strange thing that you're wearing like another animals organ as cloves also to protect you kind of. I guess if you're riding a bike or something like that. You feel like you're protected. If you whether lebanon's so there was that idea of skin there was also it was like a survey for the whole season a cat listening into goodbye horses and i didn't really know why and those discussing that somewhere frederick sanchez who the soundtrack for the show and i guess that song weirdly describes what the whole collection was about in all of in in everything that surrounds it the films that it was featured in the mystery behind the going missing for years and not being in the public eye on social media media the idea of the horses being your sentences and transcending somewhere else and realizing true reality is <hes> kind of giving in say you've said a lot of talk a underpass about reality not being something particularly partial to that you you actually prefer the unknown and <hes> there was this there was atlas atlema an element in this collection it it gets stronger and stronger you look back over the last few seasons this collection with the notion of the paper late over corpses and mexican funeral rituals last season the glassman and then we'd sort of resilient fragility or what heaven <hes> that this this a sense of the macabre roman you talk about goodbye horses well. Everybody does think about buffalo bill l. dancing around in his suit of human skin. I while i guess when you wearing an animal we're animals so you're an animal wearing animal skin but <hes> when you're doing those ideas are subtle but they are there and now really quite disturbing. I mean that show also was is about ideas of perspective so like the mirror. I think the main thing was the whole thing was kind of about a mirror iconic. Chimera is about like represents possibility <hes>. I like the the shelf space we use. The same show expects again. Which was it kind of the first time that we've chosen to show at the same venue but it was like. Wouldn't it be good if you use that venue but you kinda doubled the size by putting a mirror on the floor so it's almost it's like you had a completely different perspective on the space also scrutinizing yourself in the mirror reflected in the mirror mirror giving making from look bigger role giving light like a mirror used as kind of a protective from bad spirits otis is kind of that is kind of lincoln to it ms also reverse reality <hes> yeah it kind of flips reality. I think i think it's important take fantasizing. I think life is very real <hes> at the moment and that guy's about to buy horses again. It's like kind of realizing realizing reality for what it truly is kind of <hes>. What's next is reality see you now. What does that mean. I think it's like you know when you learn something. Can i guess it's the mystery of not knowing is sometimes more exciting than knowing economy goes back to you know people ask you like what advice would you give to a student that was starting out and i always say. I don't think you should give them any advice. I think the best thing is not knowing because then you make mistakes and you discover it yourself and that's kind of the exciting thing. Is that what happened to you that you sort of liked that you kind of ignorance was bliss. You will kind of protected by not knowing what was going to ask you so yeah. I i kind of went to college. I knew i wanted to do. I want it to be a painter scope to just because i like to making things and i didn't really know i can come from like an all background or or family family. The had any kind of artists anything like that or designers so i'd never heard of some to graduate from college and a friend who's dodge was a prop maker said oh you should come to the mountains is the best quality goto and i said okay i'll come along and then applied an on the foundation started off the kind of all and ceramic subjects and then somehow shifted into into fashion just because it was more like a just like the energy of the people which is very haphazard way of like planning your life and i don't think you can kind hundred do that anymore. With fees going up in education and you need to how scary the whole thing throws. Oh you want me to life plan. He's going to pay the debt say that when you actually went focused and that kind of that kind of helped helped you that you didn't go in there blazing with ambition it was like i was open to suggestion i think and i i was very refocused in like i always worked very hard and it was dedicated a lot of time to what i was doing but the reason i went in from a young age. I just liked making things like that. I was like june to being an artist or it was just loved to make things and at one point i maybe i'm an should be an architect or i should be an inventor trialers mak- did you useless things. What did what did fashion the fashion mangy when it when you know when when it caught your eye sint martens what was in in your head about fashion at that point. I think really not anything about fashion like i mean the time. I didn't know that i didn't know you know like i. I guess i i mean i grew up in north london. We will have certain ways of dressing. I guess you think is fashion at that time but it's maybe a fashion of a subculture profession that relates to a style of music rather than its fashioned may be as say like you're kind of dresses your friends and what would you live in north london. <hes> it's kind of like metal when i guess you call them like scar punk <unk> clubs in camden that was kind of cow thing we got to festival together that was kind of the way we dress clothes and let monsters of rock selfish civil like metal festivals yeah kind of we used to dial different colors like a yeah. It was kind of experimentation but in a <hes> maybe it was kind of outside of fashion. I used to be a lot more experiment. I was much more experimental with the way i dressed and when i arrived at maltin i was i kind of got my system or something i was very like i looked very no more than twenty. Oh oh yes i was twenty when i started the wha- what kind of <hes> attract to fashion with the people i think in fact in all subjects everyone was kind of on their own timelines. People were kind of working from home and people were kind of come in as when they needed to you've in the way that they like to work. It's kind of like self motivated but the fashion people would be queuing outside the building before opened being thrown out the security guards at the end and then kind of out together and kind of sense of community and energy around it. I guess i found exciting or inspiring. Ah i didn't know anything about it and i think to make close by new. I like to learn or something where i wanted to know. I mean on the first day of foundation foundation. They say to you when you sit there like if you've never done fashioned before and you've never dreamed of doing it. Don't even bother applying because the half of this room. Here's a multi fashion. If you haven't tried it i would kind of avoid it and then i was a but like i haven't tried it so maybe defy in like i can do this. I wanna try. Community of the fashion of the fashion. Department is funny because you're that's one thing. That's been really strong about your work. From the very beginning is it always feels like community that when you show on the cat feels like a tribe or i'm always so they felt a little bit like a medic that self referential french like on an island somewhere <hes> kind of cut off but but i'm really really complete and i think when i saw you graduate would show and you hit those the cubic on what would you call them. I never knew houses the how the luggage conduct cool but more than wearing warehouse on your back they were kind of eerie and and sort of gothic almost kind of that but that was considering that that was what got you on the front page of the newspapers in your graduate show. How did that idea. What did that idea represent represent to you because it's been something you've come back to throughout the rest of your career this idea of these that changing silhouettes with these structures zet models that that that that men and women carry a kind of wearing this thing <hes> what what did that represents don't you then i think i mean the idea of community and i guess the communities addresses the the way we always kind of describe the brands about really and then my collection was about the relationship between religious wear and and the idea of like one function one for spiritual funk shouldn't but the similarities between the both. I don't know why i had that kind of obsession with that idea. I guess i come from a family. That was very light. My mom's houses like you come home. Even if there'd be twenty people there are one person there people will always kind of coming in and out of a family's at some point early in a great way. Yeah i mean when you're a team like a teenager you want your own space but like growing up with so many people and so much energy and i've always loved that idea and i guess the uniform aspect. I've spoken about it before but i kind of think uniforms like positive thing i kind of. I guess like you know like non school uniform day. When people would wear your own clothes i felt felt like that was the moment where everyone judged each other because that was the moment where everyone could wear the coolest trainers in close kind of showed how rich they they were basically what they had before that everyone was kind of wearing the same thing in in some way not maybe not wholeheartedly like just on a even playing field. Thank god please when my uniform on the annoying kids and and loved them onscreen from remember. There were people that would wear that uniform rather than weather enclosed day yeah but when is it. Where does it come from then. I'm not really from a religious family but i grew up in in an area where i was thinking about it the day that all of my best friends in primary school from different religions and all from different ed necessities like i don't think i had one caucasian anglo saxon and kind of british family friends threatened. It was kind of like i would go to the houses and i guess experience take for granted. It was kind of just the way it was also my family. I mean we go to church christmas. Just kinda sing songs. I guess it wasn't really wholeheartedly. Religious community again like it was like an area where it was more like. I feel like hendin is an area is almost like living in the country because you go to the pub. Everyone national parents down the road. You see god follow the s._e. Your old neighbor it's very everyone knows everyone and yet my grandad went to the school that my mom went to. I went to that same school so it's very traditional in that strange way within my family my my uncle who converted to judaism today is a from a young age so he would come around we would do kind of hanukkah and it was very <hes> i never fit i four at the time but i was kind of surrounded by religion and my ritual ritual yeah used to go ahead. I had a really close friend friend was his family were jehovah's witness and i would go to the witness meetings with them. Sometimes like the me tops so there was that there was that aspect of community that so that kind of i guess kind of came out in the work in the end i mean it was when i was kind of lost mountains maltin drawer and i could kind of paint. That's why i went onto the print parkway because if i'm really bad at making close at least i can do prince which is probably like a really another really cheap way of thinking about your education. A it was a time when like women are kind of had to do women's wherein at two way <hes> and it wasn't until i went for an internship van der dunk and from then he showed me that he he inspired me showed me the fashion can be from anywhere and about anything and it doesn't matter about how you grew up where you came from. It can still be an inspiration for clothing. It doesn't have to be i. I watch my mom. Get dressed kind. You've got you. Did you have a sense of i mean walter would have reinforced them. Those things you could subvert <hes> from the graduate show on was especially focusing on menswear <hes>. Did you focus on menswear from the beginning we doing because it was fashion. I'm pretty you could kind of do either. It was more like you could do a men's outfit one project you could women's the next so i focused on men's for at the end like after a <unk> my intention with menswear designers so you kind of made that decision haw for i guess because it also gives the like i said it it gives you more to subvert you more codes to kind of twist into into not have undermined and you know what i want right from the beginning. What what i thought was there was there was a real political statement being made. I thought i don't know if he were particularly conscious savat but you know when you say that you you drawn to the unknown. It felt like you a there was a sort of utopian notion but then you couldn't actually <hes> stick with that but was utopia actually wasn't realistic and yet it's you can never have decided to slide onto the dock. I always i always played with that light dark because i always think it's interesting. If you show someone an image how they perceive it can ecomog about to the montclair collection that we did and we there was like a bogeyman. I guess you call him innocent. Mind soar is a space man and some of maybe maybe delicate mindset is a kind of sexual pleasure implement man but i love ah say space but i love that idea that you can show someone imaging they could see depending on that perspective and who they are so that kind of light light and dark thing. You have to have both well. You know it's funny. You say that because you'll first collection outside when you when you when you went from doing fashion east and you digital first standalone collection action and you know it's faith famous because people were crying and you know when people cry at fashion shows it's a it's a moment and the vet collection i think it was spring two thousand fifteen you could read that in in like you're saying light and look i saw the children's crusade so i thought there was a sort of doomed idealism blah blah blah john my pitt <unk> obsessions and other people saw something they still polyphonic spree they saw they saw joy and <hes> transcendence and so on <hes> what what would what we what were you thinking. I mean the the the barefoot models abusive those close just the sheer. The beauty of those closed took people by surprise. I think what were you thinking at that moment. I think that collection was i mean i remember like the morning of the i was going to think it was really boring so we were trying to make the motors faster and trying to get some more energy energy in the room because it was the first time we've gone wherever i guess classical soundtrack. There was no print that was kind of color really apart from it was like guessing you color and everyone's going to think it was floating floating above no or something i i never really sure how people are gonna react to. I guess that's kind of the excitement of it and the it was about about this about simplicity that collection it was about what is the simplest the simplest way of putting close together and kind of know things being. I guess it's like flat packing again along the clothing with what is the simplest the simplest form of quilting that you can do on a quilting voting machine and it's just like a two inch quote line. That's like the most basic for then you go into like a diamond so there was that protective you've protective simplistic kind of idea going on and then also i mean signatures lacing things together you know laces laces instead of buttons or whatever you which which will send creates this <hes> this a functionality and a lace the way you use lacing. There's also that heightened vulnerability. You yours feel that you can undo a lace and everything's going to collapse the slide it off the body. What is it about. What did that witted that particular. <hes> ideas come from for you because it feels like something something you might have seen somewhere and being drawn to. I think there's a that's definitely a tradition in every collection is thought to have an idea of tradition. Even maybe in the doesn't look like that when you see it <hes> fencing outfits there were kind of old ideas alma ways of doing up who said this the string aspect. I like that it's restrictive and freeing at the same time you can adjust it a a different body shape. That's why i guess kind of especially that collection. Women can wear the pieces as easily as a man that can pull in around that body if they wanted. I was this something useless about them. Is that idea of functionality finality. Can they yeah like how you say. It looks like if you put it like you would inflate or something terrible would happen. The government would just photo pot. The idea of function is always kind of. I guess collections and the work that things look like they used to do something called could do something that they do nothing to but there's a kind of like there was a silhouette has laces this fluttering around at that they had the beautiful <hes> and and that that that that the sooners like you're suffocated bound bound will so fragile so <hes> <hes> i think that sort of like i said that that sort of fragility and the kind of gutsy fragility fragile gutsiness something seems to me a signatures signatures while i'm like i was saying about armor as well the they were. They were like kind of the internal vote spacesuits as well. You know like kind of or something that you put over a call to protect in winter <unk> quoting throwaway kind of textiles and mm top ruling as well. We'd like may outfits out of one top. Willing was just being cue that we quoted and then the black one was this from my godfather he was the poster is what they use underneath flat. Kind of sofas love the idea of making something. I've nothing <hes> <hes> <hes> that collection was kind of something of nothing as well because it was really to materials or one price material and then the scope will i think we made them in like a moaning. They were just like oh this piece of muslims nicely. Did you put on stick geographic automatic. I remember often after show when you talk about the show you'll you're very very pragmatic. You'll very like you say was you know people are crying and going on about children's crusade so whatever and you're saying the bottom of the couch and we quilted di regia reviews definitely a you ever kind of laugh at what people think how people decide. They know what they think you've sometimes. I think it's more interesting than say it's about. That's why i kind of like sometimes it's cloudy. We have to write show notes because sometimes people like you know it's interesting when you know if it was right or something like this feels good when the mortar was walking around in the studio and you know kind of where the inspiration started and then it's amazing using the certain people were reviews and stuff and kind of see something else that you didn't even see. It's completely what it's about in some way. Sometimes it's not what it's about. We're just funny but uh of criticism that like if somebody says something's not working i mean <hes> will take on board and kind of china address present i think so i think you inviting people into a space in a show i think so that's kind of i guess that comes from that is the idea of like you're putting on a show so if if people may going out of their way to come and see something i guess you want them to. You want to feel something sometimes. Maybe it's not great to if they don't like it. It's maybe called. I said happened is interesting thing that happened a few times yeah but i think for the better i think sometimes when you're working on in the studio it's very <hes> about you. The people you're working with the tieman what you're making what feels right for you as an entity but really ultimately committee you're putting out into the world so you're showing it to people to see what they think or like to get a reaction i guess and and and i think when i was young the first show the fashion east with the fence of people that fence face show or some think looking back. I think that was kind of a good reaction for show show. They were so kind of splitting opinion <hes> some people really hated it or they got really angry like hate male and mail daily. I hate mail yeah. We were like personally hate mail attacks about being evil and stuff and <hes> <hes> and i think when it's your first show i'll know what i'm doing is a joke. I should be thinking. I was like oh disaster <hes> and then looking back in the story of i kind of think maybe that's a good thing to happen. I think it's good for people to react or fail. Something i think for for the love that i'm forgetting. Lee mcqueen always used to talk to you. When you talk about wanting to do a show you know wanting to give people something he was always he was always very conscious of of shung needing to be something unexplained needing to experience it whether you hated it a left it need inexperienced m <hes> he will he will sell us to talk about beauty and hora in horror and beauty <hes> as a sort of guiding principle m. I feel in a funny way affiliate picked up. You picked up on met a little bit in in your coming was he was he somebody that you look to a tool. When when you were kind of adding at not specifically i mean i think he i mean he's incredible and i think everyone especially at the time in malton mountains it was like i think you have areas in students wackle years. Where like everyone is kind of doing a mcqueen. Everyone's doing a womenswear flower kind of evil beauty kind of thing which is like the aesthetic of that year because it's so so important for everyone about time yeah i mean i think he kind of influences everyone. Doesn't he have any incidences every young london designer jeep the batons doing a green. Now thank naive i think say can you see influence when i was barton's. My main thing that i dreamed doc was being in a book in the library and i am i called how amazing that one day you'll be in a polk and you would be in printed out in a student's sketchbook as an inspiration and i feel like my goal. I want to be in a book in his library and you are. Thanks very much what happened. I think what's what it refers to is is a very clear design signature. You have a very very very very quickly. There was craig green language. You know <hes> at the end. What what is thrilled me. A ah over the over the years is seeing how it can expand because at the beginning it seemed it seemed quite <hes> it was very tight and very <hes> you know the frames structures <hes> the the the work where the sort of samurai were were quick and in that sense of the community cutoff in just evolving. It's <unk> completely it completely its own style. You know that didn't if it anything else but that has expanded now still being mad but expanded into all this other thing all this other stuff expanded into spirit you know expanded into the ether <hes> how how would you how would you track the change from then to now. What what do you feel it. It's primarily being about. I think as time goes on and as you have more move -bility isn't it to try new things and time to try new things i think at the beginning it was very i look back and i think there's some there's a condo beauty and how like repetitive and simple some of those like early collections. I mean the first one that i did with fashioned east installation. The whole thing was just made of calico and the just for the simple fact that didn't have any fabric but we were like how do you wash shit was hand painted. It was like okay. Let's put value into something that is nothing and it was kind of using what you've got around you to make make something can at one point you then have fabric supply factories. It's not just okay. We know that factory can make jacket so we should do jacket is it's like this factory can kind of do anything you've won't than it kind of. Sometimes it kind of you could say models. Things have too much choice. I think those things for you. Yeah i mean in the end. Something like comes out of the mud because you have too many options is like oh we can try highlight twenty colors. You can try twenty stories in the show. You don't know which one is going to be good. Then that's twenty times a week and <hes> <hes> i always in the scariest thing to ask anyone. <unk> scariest thing to say to someone is like you can do anything that you want. I think that's really like like stunting. Sometimes i think the best thing is like his that fabric in governed do something we've it it kind of wet crediting the value of restriction yeah i think i think some of the greatest designers in fashion history of worked very much within quite quite defined boundaries something like what could the possibilities within a material possibilities earned technique is really really can do much written didn't that restriction and that's kind of like about fashion as or that. You're restricted to the body in some way you can kind of do you. You can do a lot but at the end of the day they kind of have to walk and the body doesn't really change and it's kind of like how to work within in that restriction. I think that's kind of exciting but i think about the glossman in the last collection. Will you use the plastic and it's two arms two legs and a head and torso but there's something you've managed to bring the other quality. The the sort of like a fairytale quality to menswear that kind of changes changes the rules. I think this this kind of goes back to your to your language annual influence that you've opened that new pathways i think to to think about menswear and even more remarkably men a following you down those pathways ways to find that that you actually does. It surprised me that that some of you more extreme ideas ideas to find an audience. Does it reassure you. Yeah i think a i think like in the show format airway starts with like the conversation at the beginning of the season is like what you want to see now. What would you be excited to see and what you want to see what we should last time what feels right even before we just kind of images allows you remember that idea that never worked to. It's kind of like start saying that way so i guess the show is i think that's sorry i'm jumping back but the miami collection the clothes really that to show the sculptures. I like the three d. pieces. I'm they need to wear something but there i mean there was a consideration in the clothes but really started off as like a like a visual shoe so it was like why exciting visual do you wanna see going down the catwalk kind of thing which may become coming from an in on fashion background. Maybe that's why but it's exciting the if you can if you can create like a visual that you want to create and then it can translate to some form of clothing with some form of audience i think i guess it's just another positive the street and see that stuff hanging man. How are you sir jack trying to make them into jacket per month. You did in the end the manged to tweet us. Eh you know that we were talking before that. When you're when you're a kid maybe you were thinking that you'd be an architect or a a maker <hes> and end. What one thing i love is is when you do those <hes> when you shoot when you do advertising shoots or it's it's really a noticeable in the work. You've done for montclair <hes> especially with a genius genius genre atom monkley. You'd i'd love to make these machines that go around that can put your clothes in context by flying machines and big puffy air the kind of things and and really inventive mechanical challenges now. What what is what is like like. I said i said before we were talking. Leonardo you know making making these machines that is you doing that isn't that reflect <unk> <hes> set for like the machines like the which among machines worked with isabelle and helen who <hes> kind kind of like i guess that kind of invented as they make they do they make kind of like process and movement <hes> installations so we work with them on those on the montclair pieces and then to the campaigns craig green campaigns as we work with david who worked since the beginning so we kind of build things together scarecrows scarecrows or raw so blood the blow the marple windmill i mean maybe it's otherwise this way of doing campaigns because i guess it's not really showing any any of the product but i like that you can explain another part of the collection in an image that maybe didn't come across the catwalk. Who are you explaining that. I it's not maybe you're not showing the close but you're saying this is craig green. What what is what does that. What are you showing with blowing windmills scarecrows in things what what is that saying about craig green always like a process that kind of you say say the talisman campaign where we made we spent ages making these like giant kind kind of jazzy wood sculptures the looked like the scope just from the shallow bit and then we burn them away so it was always like joke chug saying like we didn't have any wet store them anyway so it was probably the best thing that we kind of they went somewhere else pilot that show do it kind of relates to the show in like the the it was that they can be as interesting beautiful in the finished form they are in the destroyed form and the like is it kind of goes back to something that louise voice and always taught me the be afraid to like tear up for away and start again just because it took you a long time doesn't mean that it's worth holding onto anti precious yeah. I think that's like a because it's like a design process for everyone like make it then destroy a story than put it back together. If you wanna back in there into something else quite pagan to me. It's kind of you know the ritual the the the making and the destruction and the recording of the destruction and jackson energy like burn becomes another energy and when i think of the way command uh-huh because the shapes you do use a wicked man shapes quite often in the idea of the burning like a sacrifice steep. I think about stuff like that when you when you're working like like. Do you think i mean it it. It's like alchemy that you take one thing and create much more elevated thing out of it. You know you take plastic piece of plastic and you make this out for that looks like it's you know glass or crystal or something. I really luminous gristle. It's it is alchemy but also there's the paganism the ritual and the i level that it's just <hes> the plastic outfits a kind of the problem solving aspect of having a business and being a designer kind of pink mainly. What you do is problem solving. Even if like demand looks like gloss looks fragile so you kind of go through the process it could be in the even becomes more interesting through the process a throwaway but it's also glass and he looks fragile but he's kind of wrapped in bubble wrap and protected through the process of textile development and the building it kind of becomes. Maybe more interesting they original. I did stop. The idea is impractical challenge but what's what's the sort of spiritual element in all of that the the alchemy that you know that i mentioned is is that kind of it's it's part of it in terms of the process it becomes you know what it's meant to like women to be seen as but then kinda the story though it's more or more as your as you're making it with something that idea of like a fragile man that there was something so kind of immediate and expressive about the plastic kind of does that was kind of child like kind of suffocating and also the elastic technique within the plastic like that it looked like it was almost even boss kit or like a bubble wrap but it was just just plastic so in that sense there is like a kind of i guess as a concept there from the beginning and you kind of want people to feel that way but it's very about process kind of sense of taking something i'd plastic which is the curse the curse of at times one of the curses about times and giving the sort of permanent and beauce c. which means that it can live forever as a thing of beauty and not be thrown away. You know you can take something that's so base and can become something cherish -able vesey. That's an outcome outcome. That's an al chemical process isn't it is kind of consciousness of toll does older those ideas involve as you're making something that it's make something out of colored plastic sick bits of plastic from a few seasons before that we're just kind of floating around the studio for textiles at never really never really worked for whatever reason and it was like this is where the moment to do something with plastic or this it was more like of course like everyone knows at the moment is that <hes> as an environmental consent and like a political aspect back to the material and i feel like sometimes maybe you don't realize like it's never consciously like let's do something with plastic because of that that maybe that's why that piece of plastic in the studio felt right. You know like it's more like this kind of a bit more like a media automatic in the process like lots of ideas kind of star often. It's like <hes> ah plastic at the moment and then sometimes it goes right so yeah. That's transforming something into nothing changing taking something out of context. This is a way i guess the idea is nothing ever being finished. I kind of think sometimes it is usually you're forced is to finish it because there's like a date and i felt like you can kind of just keep going and being like oh. This is an i like that aspect of it like one morning. He can be go. This is the best bit. This is the question that they might go that was a bit further away and that you bring it back out the ben and you're like what about if we do that and is constantly. Everything's always being questioned and <hes> analyzed and reconsidered is. It's very ready like what we saw offer. Who's never really what ends up as in the end that you not one of those designers who discards everything starts a new collection the new season that there is this kind of rolling evolution of ideas and sickness <unk> is definitely like it kind of it's it starts off like a new idea but the process and maybe the kind of the uniform aspect of the the monir. The color of outfits is the monarch technique outfits is cognitive or it's always paul of each collection. You know what the craft element reminds too is when we talk about a closed community with us. This aesthetic evolves without reference is to other things. It feels quite futuristic. It felt it feels medieval to me on one way that it's like a village was something on like a coastal village join a mountain top or whatever but it also feels very futuristic to may two in in the sense that like using the plastic would the kroft like the painted painting things adding a decorative element. That's that's very handmade like people using what they've got up to to cheer themselves out more all decorate themselves so it the sort of medi this future future <unk> future medieval azam was you medieval. Isn't it that that idea of of of of the future having you know deliberately restricting what you've got to week u._c. Send deliberately restricting what you have to work with and in doing something amazing with it. I mean you did the alien movie. Alien covenant you worked on the alien movie didn't hear em. I'm wondering how interested you are and in in that notion of future ism in in for yourself but also feel feel for what you do one collection election that was i mean maybe it's kind of jokey concept. It was about like hundred pulsed few poss- president future which was ooh into a team that had the kind of rubber the rubber latex coaches and it was it was the i it we'd start it off that we wanted to make a man that looked like he was molded into his uniform so we've got into factories and they had these very technological modern ways of molding fabric can in some way just felt so old fashioned or like really not futuristic and we were. How do we make this looking this way and and in the end the clothing was we made the effect for the most basic form of creating volume just feel like foulds it's and then pleats in another direction and the volume the gave looked like they were molded so collection. It's we did the latex houses and i think you picked up on it backstage. As did you use latex because routes over time and that's that was the idea of time within the collection that everything is one big full circle and sometimes the most futuristic thing is the oldest saying the most the most futuristic thing is the oldest thing when you think is the newest thing something is like a kind of wit the sometimes the most like a futuristic technique. The oldest feeling technique in the oldest feeding technique is almost i the most futuristic that's quite a humanist point of view that actually because that's got these machines or something would be that would be something to do with the hand um the human hand <hes> and then you know we as i sort of feel with fighting a rearguard action against machines now because every time you pick a newspaper standing you i bet how is is is. I think that kind of goes back to the uniform aspect as well that you don't really see people wearing uniforms to work and i guess guess you there's a loss of a workforce as things become mechanized said as romantic idea of people that do things where people that make things people in physical <hes> which kind of goes back to that machine thing again in some weird way but then there were things machines can't do <hes> exactly the probably the things we should hold onto until then idea that that that i read the other day about machines will eventually be in writing stories will telling stories about us the way we read stories about machines now machines telling stories about us eman eventually machines will i'll tell stories about machines and then we point but hopefully there'll be some craig green close failing around for them to look at it and speculate about her overflying idea isn't it is that i think that's a i like the human aspect. I think that kind of i think it's interesting like the terrifying idea of is what's interesting about it and the thing change. I'm not someone loves change. Great things can come out of change like it's again it goes to when i was at college and something that lewis said to everyone she was like you. You should be uncomfortable about what you're making. You shouldn't feel comfortable about it because then it usually means. It's something that you haven't done before something that's new. You should feel like i don't know like is this horrible disgusting how to do this. She would say if it disturbed view. It's probably good something upsets. He was better than something that pleases you. Definitely you feel that you've carried that into until work <unk> because yeah i i'm always impressed by had disturbed. I am by by your shows. <hes> even something like those suits says dream suits in the last show you call them dreams but it looked like skin at being torn off you sing muscular lean away yeah <hes> <hes> i mean that's quite i go back to leonardo again. Leonardo made all his dream machines that the technology was not precedent for the technology that he created as things but the way he also analyze human body muscular churn things of at animals and humans and his fascination assignation with <hes> biology and and someone it's i see it in the new work as well as you know the way you expose the the body and in your clothes and it's just it's quite it's just wonder where that comes from that obsession it does. Is it an obsession. I'm definitely work obsessed and i think a a like to unlike like how i like. I like problem solving and i'd like to kind of investigate and find things out with new ways of doing things we're like. How'd you do someone that's naked butt naked or how do how'd you make the skin of those kind of. I felt like there was some kind of weird age thing going on in the last collection as well where the different formats of skin like the futuristic skin the the kind of very a lot of the anatomical joints. You're looking at where they're almost must like. Medea who i think can <hes> zoroastrian and the way that like muscles are being drawn as flowers and the body was kind of one giant plant so there was that idea of skin and then there was the kind of the quoted skin suits that will miss like transparent futuristic and then you had like the lead the skin and then at the end you kind of had like digital scans of they were done they were printed really stretched and then we elasticated them to bring them back to reality galaxy but then they had kind of the skin was wrinkled but also transparent so there was some kind of weeds wearing someone else's skin now putting yourself into kary extrordinary that is even as you're talking about extrordinary that sounds it kind of like oh. You know we did this. We did that that it's really quite nuts and wonderful. Nobody douglas's do anything remotely like that. It's a i guess a curiosity in the the way that we work on things in the studio on the way that the team <unk> the way that we like get something back from the factory and if it's rubbish will cut it up. It doesn't matter it. It doesn't matter that it was. We've been working on this for months or like if it's rubbish rubbish or like if it's not if it doesn't feel good it doesn't feel good so there's that curiosity. How else can we do skin. What else can we do with like. How do we make that look like a flower. How do we make him look like he's naked. Obeys not naked. How does it feel our two printed body. How'd you do that in a new way. How do you it's kind of like lots and lots of process going hang on an experimentation and that's why i think that's why <hes> some kind of strange things come out in the the. It's like questioning experimenting stalling again cutting up reporting it back together process. I think this kind of obsession russian. You'd be you'd be doing. You'd be exploring ideas. I this whatever it was that you did. It's obviously what life's work and it just so happens that you're working in fashion fashioned now using fascists you'll medium. Do you ever wonder what you would be doing. If you didn't work in fashion icon just like one side of me things like i'd love to work in business. You know like pure business where it's like problem solving and strategizing how to solve with problems. There's one aspect of that by not sure i'd actually enjoy that in the <hes> and then the other side is i've always wanted to do something like ceramic so i love ceramics can lost forever. You know an it's for has like a physical purpose if you want it to be the like a bowl or cup. There's something amazing about that so that so that i love about. I think that's something that attracted actively to fashion that you could is multidisciplinary attend think. It's like one thing it's like one minute. You're working on building being a campaign scope. Joel the next minute you're kind of trying to reinterpret a shoe which is like making a different to making a government to making a sculpture to making making shop installation a graphic or econ of ood things like its textile painting constructing government even like with like learning. I never realized like making a down jacket. Is it's like a completely completely. I it's it's it's own. Construction has got nothing to do with not down jacket construction. It's like it's own way of measuring its own way of volume which is really interesting. Love love by and that's another idea of restriction that the so many limitations in like how you can construct a down jacket because you have to inject it from all different directions and you constant through the feather otherwise feather comes out and so you can start with a sketch and then you have to work out how with the technical team had to do that and i think that's really exciting says widely different from what you do via self then it comes like goldman construction and the process yeah definitely and it's it's it's kind of is infiltrating writing the way you work yourself. Can you see that the how like is i kind of experience of working with a team like a team that scale fifteen twenty people that are in the fitting when surfing the two of us and it's like who are these people which i think kind of. It's a learning curve of how how you how things are done on a biggest scale and i think that definitely infiltrates into the way that we work so you'll actually you're. You're a pragmatist. I know that you can work with a huge company like like <hes> montclair. You can also you. Also you know you said you works about problem solving ultimately but can you see that you know as you'll building green land that it can <hes> you could do ceramics. He can do anything you can. How'd you imagine how'd you mentioned. You'll you'll business expanding. Would it become like the lifestyle proposition for example example boise. You'll making a world now. I kind of enjoy the business aspect uh-huh as not maybe not as much i find it interesting the business aspect of having a fashion business and design funded by pretty interesting and the like that both problem solving in their own kind of strange way and i like that and i love making things so yeah. I definitely think like if we if we get offered a project this like furniture a waste dump it because it's like it's like something we call do on a catwalk and maybe we wouldn't do campaign. It's like another way of the sang with adidas over like a shoe collaboration peration because i think like issues like a sculpture kind of you can do so much when a shoe that government and to the seven exciting thank you can do in that way and then a kind of maybe more adventurous footwear on a whole. Did you experiment enjoy join join the movie experience would you would you wanna do more of that sort of thing that was amazing working with john ta. She's like a yeah. She's amazing. Ising to work on film like that is like a kid's dream is now. I remember watching like alien films at my friend's house when i was in primary school and even a story of that story is like for like aca film lost forever or something that you can look back at it. I mean fashion could lost forever as well like a film yeah. Do you get approach to stuff like that. Sometimes i mean like a like like when we apply for project. I think it's exciting to if it's like something really different to what we've ever done. I was thinking more exciting than another version of what we're doing or another version in like i'm another way of trying to occa- how'd you take this. How'd would you take this and this and try and put it together. In a way that makes sense. I think that's what's exciting and what about when the giants of hip hop coley to dress to lessen things has that doc. It's like it's amazing. The selassie was the last person did it. Was it a sat rock email appreciative we've done we did coachella outfit so yeah. We do custom for some people. Some people don't even know if they're going to wear it like they. It's like a surprise in some people purchased for custom so that's always exciting as well. I mean i love. I think doing a stage outfit. It's like it's like kashagan. Isn't it says like you have to think about it and so many different levels and so much more possible than maybe rare life so yeah. That's what i love about fashion that you can. You can do one of those things as possible. If you want to like you can and so many more the things you can do with it as well as time goes on and it's epa changing from a thing that's like a i was in his weight is like an addictive addictive industry that night i think because it's like ever changing of a adapting and it's exciting to see what's happening morning. What's going to happen and maybe that's why seventy people are obsessed with it and i think excess how how is women's wear. I'm impacting on on your business. We we have like women customers that by by the the menswear but we haven't yet been into like a fully formed women's kind of design collection. I guess yeah lots of the stores counterpoint that women go to them in sections of the department stores and by menswear i think as i understand it is kind of i guess across many brands that's happening at the moment that kind of women wanted to go to the ben's installment and by form. It makes a little bit easier. There's something about the someone described the <unk> jacket that we did. Someone says it's like relaxed tailoring but it's it's kind of like what quite a minnow thinking about. Why does this jacket look good on and the women that we know the men and i think it's it's that thing about having a structured showed or the kind of adapt to like body shapes and if you have like a string but consider <unk> without the shape as well so it's kind of like a there's a relaxed nece to the structure but i think uncertain governments can work by men and women. Do you feel <hes> now. How many people work with you now. I mean annot we've talked about this over. The years how small your team is but now with slightly bigger the last year with ten full time and five regular part-time tele two days a week in different departments as kind of how it started but we do <unk> like we still run in a very independent way so we have we do the distribution ceos production from that team so everything come happens there at the moment how can loss for but how is that. How do you find that you are you feeling stressed or you like you said you like way like way stressed. It doesn't mean it's not enjoyable though it's it's i mean i guess everyone in fashion was hey is a tough industry is like it's hard work. You have to kind of fully commit. <hes> i think as long as you love the people that you work with and are excited about about what could be the end of the tunnel. Feel a sense of responsibility that that <hes> these people i mean yeah. Do you feel a sense of responsibility that definitely interest me. I think it's it's it's scary if you stop to think that i thought maybe it's a bit like i guess you want responsible for the choices made an effects real. People's people's lives if the kind of part of the team in their income in a black and white ways like on a on a broader stage. I remember ma'am. You said to me a few seasons ago. When you went to show at pissy one of as sort of invited guests pretty woman florence ua ua you felt you might be letting using london fashion week down and you very quickly became this sort of tent pole of london fashion week the the the must see show. How does that sit with you that that sense of becoming a figurehead not just an influence but also figurehead scary figurehead think there's an aspect of like a ah the company and would not exist without london and i mean up until like four seasons seasons ago five seasons ago. We had a free show which is like that we could never put on a show like those beginning seasons. We've in our band. During the we were fashion east that new gen so that is the aspect that you kind of yeah. It's like it's part of the story paul of what goes to where we all now and there's a consideration of yeah if you if you suddenly move show even if it's one season there is of course that like worry that like like all those people that supported you all you than moving on but <hes> yeah there is that consideration that you came back came back fashion influx the way it is now a what what you see happening. Thank you south. I think he probably meant to have like a business plan and stuff on you but we every time we try and do are you one year later. It's like because like anything can happen in. I think that's what's amazing and terrifying about about having a fashion business the in in the space of six months something incredible something terrible can happen so quickly that is very hard to plan for like. Do you want to be in three years five years ten years and this team you kind of run with it. You know what he did. Say the unknown good dog yeah dangerously well. Thank you very much craig. I'm looking forward to heading even further into the unknown with you in the com- if you enjoyed this conversation you might also be interested in enjoining global membership community b. o. F. professional are members receive exclusive deep dive analysis in our daily digest email as well as unlimited access to archive archive of over ten thousand articles our new iphone app special print issues all of our online courses and learning materials from b. o. f. education for a limited time the only we're offering our podcast listeners exclusive twenty five percent discount on your first year of an annual bureau professional membership to get this special offer click on the link in the episode notes select the annual package and enter the special code podcast twenty nine thousand nine at checkout. We hope you enjoyed this podcast. 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Stephen Jones on the Craft of Millinery | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

57:05 min | 1 year ago

Stephen Jones on the Craft of Millinery | Inside Fashion

"This episode of inside fashion is brought to you by Clarks Clark led to shop now and pay later interest free at leading online retailers to add Clark to your store. Visit clarinet dot com. The magical thing about when you see my hats or anybody else's hats in the next mission. They communicate in a way that clothing cont. I never had that desperation to change the world with one of my designs as dress design this half to have because if they don't have that, you know, they make the relationship between a hat make and his client how intimate is that relationship. Very intimate. It's their interpretation of what I do is the magical part actually putting the hat on somebody is like crowning. Hi, this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion and welcome to inside fashion. And this week our editor at large sits down with a true legend in the fashion industry, Stephen Jones. Now, we always talk about fashion designers on B O F, but we very rarely get to sit down with a milliner. Someone who designs hats and probably the most well known and respected milliner in our industry. Still working today is Mr. Stephen Jones, his current exhibition at the Royal pavilion and Brighton shows Jones's work as a curator of similar shows over the years, and Tim sits down with him to understand a little bit about the psychology of people who wear hats. So here's Stephen Jones in conversation with Tim blanks inside fashion. So Stephen a you have a show and bright bright. Now this billion running until June and wha- what intrigues me is that you have done quite a lot of show. It's feels to me like you've done quite a lot of shows since you did hats the Vienna. Ten years ago ten years ago, and it feels like it feels to me like in that time you have. Made exhibitions all over the world of your work. Absolutely. Well, the hat exhibition traveled from London and then to Brisbane and then to Neo commend to Boston. After sit out the span of about four years and at the same time, what was happening is that deal also was starting to exit missions. So I started to install some of these Jones behest and sought it to be very involved with those. And then somehow the will change of marriage to think that the final pouch of clay that the life cycle of peace of coping used to be run some divorce it now it's been you season an exhibition say, I didn't know right place, right time. I think but you've become a curiouser. Yes. The hat, but the world's premier curator. Yeah. I I didn't if I have. But certainly nobody else is doing. And I think the magical thing about with when you see my hat's anybody else's hats in an exhibition. They communicate in a way that clothing conned because clothing, we can understand the beautiful Esa. Metric seem of Balenciaga firm nineteen fifty two the most people calmed and will be Brad. She forget is the museums on mass and detainment. Yes. Show the raw fascist. But now the sounds of people getting probably every day to the Vienna. Some of the Meridian to fashion, but many of them are not. But hats, actually, communicate in simple, very obvious way in way that clothing connote because maybe clothing too, clever, clever and hats to. I know I think because hat hat's almost like a cut. Tune compared if close removing had select a cartoon. Yep. Yep. Yep. I mean was that wonderful parallel. But is that what draw the droll you too? Okay. But actually Hance being content in some of the best huts are content because huts or cartoon for the message or hieroglyph for the message. They convey hieroglyph get us with his own fun. Gold words is that what drew you to? I think if you going to send Martin's because he wanted to be you wanted to get into fashion, and you're in a fashion course, I want I want to be in the fabulous central London club. Oh, yes. Number one and being fashion number two. But I think it was that way round. But but then there was the hat. The the military course was next door to the course that you're in and you would draw next door's at route note, no autographs, but me. Yeah. When I arrived at Saint mountains, I couldn't so unruliest goes who could with a who heading dress during lunchtime and my tailoring to to this chap goal pizza crown who owned this company called the shos very grant haute couture house a bit light hardy Amy's said to me that I would fail. My first year if I didn't get extra help. So at that time, I became an intern is highs, and I was the only person I knew who did was actually working out in in an industry and became an inter-. So I went there, and I was working for the Taylor and ding path stitching and making coughing picking up the pins and doing all those things, but next to the tailoring work crew was a rework room and those ladies in the they they were laughing and talking we weren't really allowed to talk. And somehow I thought I wanted to be with his people, and it was about the peop-. It really wasn't about what they were doing. But after transferring from one day for one department to another I had a bit you Rica moments and thought this is what I'd love to do. But that that time of do with take me seriously in anyway, I was doing women's wise. So hats was a bit of a diversion. Anyway, it's interesting. There's a sort of a Rosebud moment there that you sold these women in the military department having fun and say, you would associate hats with entertainment up -solutely, which is what they are. Yes, they ashen too. But that entertainment the purpose of the hat is to make you entertained in the people who are looking at to you and to give you a good time. Of course, some hats, which keep you dry will keep you all more keep you whatever. But it's what they do feel that what how they make you feel which is the important thing as well. As how they look I guess he would lucky that. At that time. There was a there was something happened happening in London with people wanted to dress up and what says dressing up actually more than a hat. So you could make hats feel friends and troop off to the blitz. You had a built in audience as well. I mean in at that time, we rulemaking are in clothes, and I they came from o-x-f-a-m or you'd make something also for they come from Charles folks, which is a big Theta costume company which closed down, and they had an auction and some people that had the sale and some people close there, but certainly people were making therein hats fashioning, the mount of bits and pieces or secondhand hands. And I was making new ones, right? She I was quite often buying things from them as well. Then reworking them buying felt huts and remaking them because that was a cheap supply J naiad didn't have two pennies to rub together. Live talk baked beans and lived in the squad. I love the idea that but you'll I had was actually. You actually made it from a state of innocence or ignorance the covet cod board with the Ray painted, plastic iris. Yes, not really realizing that flowers on hats would traditionally be silk. Yeah. You used an old piece of plastic from your mom beyond some flowers that she go free with petrol in the nineteen sixties these plans to go so bizarre. When you think back that goes used to get plastic flowers for patrol and then used to get whiskey glosses. The ones change, but your chooser show Hex. Yeah. That was very modern ATP using these materials. So even though that was a complete accident that did kind of sit you on your on. Your course. Yes. When you look back. How is so funny thing the things that happen and things of luck kkob. Wanting to them to happen yourself for hard work, all these things come together. An some people are very ambitious, and we attempt to set this path about what they're going to be in twenty years time or own a house by the time, the thirty or whatever, and I was really not like that. I I never had. That desperation to change the world with one of my designs as dress design have to have because if they don't have that in they'd never make it. They have to have that so belief I didn't have the self-belief. But I thought well after all this is just a hot it has the meaning to life. But when when did it become obvious to you that this actually was a bottomless pool of of opportunity inspiration that you know, the the show in Brighton has one hundred and fifty hats, that's a drop in the bucket of your career people walk into that show. See this panoply of spectacle. But it really is just a moment in in in in what you've done in the last four hundred and fifty years in hats. Yes. But it just feel. Yeah. It is just a moment. And of course. When you do it's not a retrospective. But when you create a museum create and curate a museum display it's about where it's being shown as well. And of course, the pavilion has got this extraordinary in very very strong interior, which is sort of eighteenth century idea of what Chinese walls. Oh, what Asian was it's obscene nothing to do with China whatsoever. And so that really informs how the display is going to be so for example in the banqueting room. But what do you do have a banquet, you could not install a minimal come together? So Nasc concrete. Plinth on which she would display heart. You just have to go with it. And that's why I love that place because it looks. So celebrate tree and hopefully the hot soup celebrate within it liberal. What I'm saying is that that you have had so many years. To create so much loans and self to the Royal pavilion lighten or to a concrete plant. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you you've widened the vocabulary of the hat as you just said that you know, designers have to have this the sense that they are going to change the world. And was the humble Hata never really had that sense. But then you look at what you've done and my God, that's huge. But it is a percentage water because I've been working. Almost forty years. And that's a lot of hats and two collections of my in collections and then working with so many different designers of his so many hats out there forty years workers, huge quantity of work. How many hats, do you think you've designed trillions? I've never actually worked it out. I've never worked to town. I remember trying to work out. How many shows I'd done for Dior? And I it was actually quite funny because. Limited installing the Dior in the the exhibition from the music is out decorative, which is now at the Vienna. When I was installing that with the curator Oriole Cullen who also curated Hudson Poggi by Stephen Jones, ten years ago. She was saying it will. Yes. This twenty things here from regret Sierra this fifteen things from John Lott, boom etcetera. I she counted up. And so how many objects I had within the exhibition I had two hundred thirty nine and that's one show. There's another one hundred fifty and Brighton. Yup. This being hat says being how many shows have there been between hats and the hat show in Brighton that though it had Savina ten years ago. How many shows have you done? I did I don't know. Probably fifteen also been in Israel in America and Vienna in or around the world, and let's say there's one hundred and fifty heads in each of those shows, and that's just a minute sample of what? I mean, I'm dying. I would love to have a number on. Maybe I can come back to you. Instead into the red say, it's it's thousands tens of thousand tens of thousands. When you each one that tells a story and each one that I remember. I sent strangely enough. I do remember them, and it how could you have? Fifty thousand children and remember them. But I do I remember something else. Mold the day of the week. Remember that? It's your diary, I suppose if I held up a hat from nineteen eighty three you would know where you designed it when you designed it why signed it. How how it differed to how I wanted it to look and how I moved on from there because designing is both the positive and the negative experiences. The fact that the the negative see within it which forces you to try and correct it in the next election. And that was one very important thing that I I've learned is that how you can kill a design by of work. Good design. Yes. Sometimes it is focused but often it's spontaneous as well. And this said this a simplicity clarity division, which doesn't come from working things. Again. Again, what you do is you have to inspiration carry it over to the next season. And there is always an next season and the next time, and and how for the moment has self referential is the work would how often do you go back and explore notions set that you had before that you may be couldn't realize that. Now, you can because fabric technology has changed something this you're able to do something that you you weren't able to do before is that the key? Is that ever the case? I mean, sometimes I mean, certainly, but you so about gang going over things I'd experienced before collections are autobiographical protections are a diary, and even though the magic -ly a collection could be about the fourteenth, century and Pluto. Actually, they are in a way all about my world of design, which hopefully it gets bigger as opposed to contracting. On an uncertain. But sometimes it is. So fr Ferenci will. Impact? I'm starting to work on next summer's collection. The moment some are twenty twenty and I haven't really worked out what it's getting to be about. But I start to see all the work of early Japanese design in particular is he Mia key. But we'll say Yoshi and come to go who I worked with. And I remembered I did a show in. I think it was nineteen hundred five in Tokyo Kirkland and goes to Tokyo, this was a joint show, the dieted with myself culture show Caen, Barry and many many our body map and John Richmond did a group show there. We were just young kids doing show, but what we didn't understand in Japanese half fashioned history. That was a huge turning point in that understanding of western fashion. And what I want to do is achieve reexamined that moment that crossover between Lee and Trojan coming down the catwalk. And is he Mia key creating address out of linen and of pleats, but Doering what these young British people were doing. So that say if you about sort of self reference, that's what when you've been working certain amount of time. You can't leave your in past behind. You can't disregard it it is always there. But I'm used in different ways, traditionally in fashion, it's a little bit light music that at this the hit of the debt today in the hitch of tomorrow, but I d I think that idea of timing within fashion is some no longer relevant because it psych what's Molden for one person is is not modern for another words young for lump. So the idea of time in this progression of fashion is somehow not relevant. Because you could say well nine hundred sixty s Brooks old-fashioned now in western vocabulary. But maybe in Africa that looks absolutely new. It's different two different sets of people around the world, and because of the internet and the availability of information, it means that everything is bubbling onto the mat moss from Barbarella all the time, and you can take whatever you want. But how? Personal is that few? Then this is what your summer collection is. It's extremely personal reference. Yeah. And most people looking at the hat looking at a single hat from that collection. Now, we'll never ever appreciate them resonance. Yes. Is that something that you find poignant, or is that something you just find -ffective effect of the job? That's attacked the job an idea minded because yes, you can reference something in a collection, and it can be this painting or that contemporary artist or whatever actually all of that is totally irrelevant. What's relevant is what you make from. It is not the reference, and sometimes people really talk about the reference giving it a particular authority actually that item that you create should have its own authority by itself do not link it to something else to give it to certain sort of grandeur. I think that's a big design inserting not applicable to me forever. Having said that but is just the same as a photograph of a DO dress being taken on the steps of the upper in Paris that gives it his grand jury. So that's the only loop around it. But I don't know that's a personal discussion that will have within my mind, which will send you to sleep every night for many years to count. I think it's very interesting because if you think about a hat is a standalone object, if you think about a fabulous fashion image that, you know, like the Adeel dress on the sips of the opera house probably taken by Richard Avedon and worn by moa some hail now. People aware of a context hip foot for that. You know, it is maybe jewel new, local, whatever they're aware of the story, a hat sits in solitary splendour as almost like a piece of sculpture, and you respond to it as in itself, you know, as an object, which actually is incredibly powerful. Yeah. If you get the hat, right? If you've got the hat, right? If you get the hat wrong. It can be totally destroyed people need it you just ignore it. If you get the hat wrong, but it seems to me you've made a career of getting the hat, right? An awful lot. Well, I hope so. Of me getting a hat, right? Is not only because of me because it often it's because of the posts in the time working with or how it's being put on a hat is never really seen in isolation. A hat is about the time and the place where it becomes that thing which is worn but slightly the problem with exhibitions is that yes, it's wonderful to see those things, but the stationary actually, fashion or hats, or whatever much more interesting when they're moving around on that person, and that person is responding to whatever they're wearing. Although I'm thinking with a lot of your hat a lot. But but some of your most fabulous headset said I love the most you almost. You probably think this is completely insulting. But you almost don't want to see them on people moving around with this squad. Little human kind of gyration because you've done a hat, which looks like a kite in flight. Yep. Yeah. And once you puppet on a human head. They're going to get stuck in a t shirt or something. Yes. Absolutely. And then this Bill that drinking. Yeah. It is just I feel I've always been curious about that with you that when you're making something supremely era dynamic or challenging gravity in some way. How you can even conceive of it being on top of a, you know, a human body, which is gonna Rouge it to the ground instead of letting it fly fly to the sky, but hopefully the hat is going to make body flow to this going to let sit purpose. I cannot really say that the hat is just a frame for the person who's wearing it even though Vivienne Westwood one seven the quote about me that when the woman comes into room wearing the Stephen Jones hat. Everybody says how wonderful she looks as opposed to. What is which I think is a fantastic thing to say. But I've questioned that for thirty years is that a good point of your by do I do I want to make things which are more imposing to that. Yes. I do think that I want to make things which more imposing. But unless the person can control that thing, which is on the had it does become an imposition. But it's it's a little bit. Like an argument. You can argue things either way sometimes is great when it's an imposition because that thing they have on the head can do the talking for the person. So the person can just relax underneath them. Not be magical to the hand. It's talked to the hat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then sometimes it can be an advocate of the person's character was sometimes it's the opposite Chisholm dis. Character may be it could make Hugh. Look elegant and serene. Maybe it can make Hugh look or feel young and funky. It's the Sydney extremely transformative. Have have you when you're designing? Have you got in your head notions of the perfect symbiosis between hat, and where I mean other people who embody who the perfect hat wearer in your head. Absolutely. I always. But I think that, but I'm actually very good at adapting my hat designs to the post because I started with couture, and I understand totally. I put a hat on somebody. I can see. Yes. The brim needs. Look a little bit bigger. All this needs to be changed to adapt to make it suit imperfectly. But I'm almost too good at doing that. And so if I'm thinking, yes, this is making it in in my head, I making this Verana, and then reality I might be making for younger as well. It will be just good for her. Maybe nobody else. So is the do. I have a museum that is the in my head all the time. No. And if there is one it changes, but it's as been different throughout my career. For example, when I first started Sevilla sound fouls working with me, and she was gorgeous extraordinary and beautiful. I would make hats to suit. But it suited her. And her stature in her personality, not so many other people and the same thing with Princess Julia. But so that changes over time and it mutates every season. What about presents Diana making hats for her? There were things that I made for her. The thing that was important with her she actually suited. Absolute simplicity. Because she had quite a complex face quite complex. And. In fact, lace on in life when she had her hair cut off in San McKnight cut. His and Mary green welded her makeup married to Stena to photograph for the cover of vogue when suddenly she was never -cation of simplicity. That's when she looked past. And it was simple things which suited her. Best of all. Are they more challenging so to create a perfect a perfectly simple gesture? It's a very different mentality. If in clothing terms in a way, yes, it's much more difficult to make a simple crepe machine jacket. Then it isn't ballgown, but ballgown is a successful. Ballgown an adaptable gown or chose James Boorda on is a complete feats of engineering as well. So yes, sometimes things are simpler, one of the thing about making simple hats. And as I'm thinking. Now, I'm thinking of. Pretoria raglan for Meghan, Harry's wedding that simple hat suit has to be perfect and need Mary many many experiments of how to make the thing look effortless. That's when the and the wear really become one. And it's a beautiful thing when that happens, but it happens readily, but the same is true in passion. You know, when you think who've Jerry Hall in an opium that's been the clothes and the person become one if you think of. Scepter wearing Kim Jones. That's when it becomes one that this is truly magical times in fashion, but they happen more through luck than by design where I think I think I think that you designed for Megan's mother was a case in point because I didn't get the feeling she was a woman who will hat Salat, but that hat was. So it was what people remembered from as early on the side of a hand. Yeah. And then you've done a berry berry, Megan. And I I think it's interesting that anyone who who there's a lot of media attention on you have to strike this balance between making a hatful them making a hat, which gets in the kind of attention that they want to know people sandwich had a boring berry on or something you have to. Make something which strikes his balance between the between enhancing them and and not detracting from. I mean, I guess that's the challenge for the hat maker. Anyway, you want to enhance the character in a way that doesn't make them. So. Sort of the center of attention to the point where it seems like they have exhibitionist or some because they in a way to won't the attention. They have attention in the world. They want to sightly deflect attention is isn't he? Iraq land would say well that day was all about her daughter and her future is nothing to do with her. But I remember having conversation with me aggressee of this was for this win win to two thousand and eighteen collection. And we were trying to plan what to do. And and there was something about the reality of clothing that she was very interested in within the cujo framework. And a bit. Stephen do always extravagant hats. But what people actually order for me. And I said, well, they can all this said, but so often those ladies one to appear fashionable. Yes. But most importantly, they won't to appear well dressed, which is such an alien concept to the world of magazines, all what's supposed to be young revoke active or challenging water. Just the idea of being well-dressed is very unfashionable idea. And it's quite difficult to achieve for those people in the public high. It's. This photographs have gone to be seen in ten twenty two hundred years time. And if the of course, if we look at pictures of Queen Mary now, we think of nineteen ten, but it's much better to be outside the vagaries of fashion than inside if you're somebody that status, and so how do you address that challenge like somebody who wants to be well dressed without looking like, a slave to fashion. What what what kind of hat complement set challenge? It's often the question of education to them from me about how they could look and trial and error. You never really know. I will try on twenty thirty hats on the client until I find something and often they thinking that the hat should be this big fancy thing. But I will try and make it simpler, and comma, of course, there's not the sorts of hats which make. Headlines nor or an exhibit in new in Brighton because they tell such allowed story the more who whisper than the trumpet salute. But the very important part of my work, and it sort of how I started off to when I was working the chace always years ago. I would attend fittings. And and it was quite funny because well, maybe his raw the second away. But the owner of the company would actually read the Daily Telegraph every morning to read the obit trees to make sure that we went working on any of the climb said. His have have a young Leone tell but often those ladies would come back in every oh and have that re-trimmed they'd all grown up to the wall. They'll sue recycled in their own way. So that the tweed jackets will be letting out with launched earnings left on the side seams in the hats foods, my job was to cut the turnings of the inside of blouses and join all these little pieces of fabric together and make a flower or neutral from so it was very sustainable tomato. When man it-it-it's today's pollens all make to amend, he's wartime wartime pounds. But certainly that took me. The understanding of subtlety an and discretion in how votes quite beautiful as well. So now in your business, what percentage of of your business is the headset. You making for people and had set you making feel self because I can't imagine people will conc- give me a kite with along tag of Rubini things. No Federal's idea phone up, and they will say I'm having a party or I'm going to a ball. And it's in Monte Carlo some Petersburg outside Shanghai. And the theme is multicolor. What can what Fendt wonderful fantasy object? Can you make me the tank input on my head on? It's about fun. And it really is about the party. And so yes, absolutely. I have a client for that. And I have a client who's coming into more time something brace implant elegant because they're inspecting the troops in America. And I have a client who owns a fabulous thing for runway show in Neo during you passionately. I wish there was a client who needed something fabulous for bricks negotiations ahead and make a thinks, right? Well, how majesty the Queen ordeal war without on the day that she has to read the open parliament when the she had to announce Brexit was actually going to happen. She wore a Royal blue hat with Yellen days is just night the European flag. And no her entire reign has been found unity and bringing people together how fabulous and why didn't we listen. Why didn't we get that signal that she was sending to us that day that fateful day? Well because that happened after the event. Yes, true discretion intrigues me the relationship between. A hat maker and his client. How intimate is that relationship? Very intimate. It's funny. Sometimes I can tell you about discretion. And but I can give you one of the station without when Riano was getting ready for the met lost. You. The she was wearing a multi Mosiuoa outfit, and she was where she had to option of two or three different lighters, and I went into the boss from with her and everybody had been saying that you should wear that when you should be very not when you buy this combination with this sort of shoe, and I said boat, then we go to a hat, and it was her and me in front of the mirror. I said on everybody's telling you giving you their opinion. I said how do you want to look, and I didn't think anybody had actually off stood up question because everybody has got different agendas. So it is something which is very private and off a simple thing, and you just need to have opposed put the hat on. But actually putting the hatch on somebody. Is like crowning them. And I put it on a ni- take off again not put on again. And then take it off. And I'll say you still yourself because actually it's their interpretation of what I do. Is the magical pot? It's a bit bike when I'm working with the dress designer is the collaboration of thing. The idea what we come up with together is more interesting than what I would come up by myself. Maybe they would come up. See I what you just said there. I imagine I see was kind of therapist and archbishop as you'll crowning people. But at the same time of therapist that you of working with people's totally totally absolute insecurity is because people are insecure when you put ahead on the head. Yeah. At first. Yes. But then you when you're working with designers in the designers that you have worked with I mean, John Galliano to rake cow Kubo, you have covered the waterfront, really. Yeah. You having to anticipate you're having to kind of. Just imagine like trying to visualize. What it is that could possibly compliment the incredible range of clothing that they're giving you from the most romantic to the most Evan. God. Have you do that? What number one I think has Chinese make an extension of the compensation that we're having. So for example, when I go into a meeting will go and see when I arrive in New York, we've been with Marc Jacobs, for example, been FaceTime me, I've been making twelve in the guessing. More and more frustrated with each other because the FaceTime keeps crashing the sketches won't go through and it's the wrong color and the sample wasn't delivered is being held by customs. When I arrived at marks a few days or a week before the show, we always embrace each other very strongly, and he will say thank God you. So it is. In a way of a love affair. But it is a closeness that I have to feel without designer and also make them feel comfortable so they can express themselves because if expressing themselves about saving, it's maybe more natural for them. But with a hat, maybe they don't know. So. I need to explain to them. Oh, I miss them. Create an envelope around them within wit or full comfy bed around them within which they feel the freedom to express themselves. Do you feel that you and then from that, then we can have the compensation, which is an honest conversation. An I could stop to try an express an idea that may be developing together. What happens when a designer shows, you something that you absolutely have. No affinity for what we're completely hate me. Think it's going to challenge to make it something which I quite love but video hat. Yeah. Yeah. Something that. I completely hate not. Why would I hate that thing is it because my primp my preconceived ideas of what's ugly abuse official? Maybe it is. So you should never ever judge before you give us a chance because you have to be a good listener. Yes, you can come with. I remember saying to Lorenz code now. How did you work for years and years? Who is? Yes. Working to Vanity Fair with this Hollywood actresses and notes bay notice in it's about egos, and she said, you just leave your ego at the door and neutron do your job and eventually it works. And I think that's that is one way of working. I didn't think I leave my ego the dole completely because I I do have an ego. I ruined the ones having conversation with Stephen Robinson. Who was John Galliano's assistant for many many years, and it was off to a show in this been some infighting within the design studio an off to the show Steven gathered everybody around and he said, look he said Steven Jones is redesigned he doesn't have any go. He comes in. And he does his job in. It's all fine. I said Stephen you've got me so wrong. I have such a huge ego. I have to have my own company in London because I'd never be satisfied with this. You're saying that actually when you're working with people who present you with things that aren't necessarily compa-. Edible particularly with what you do. You're able to insinuate yourself into their essay because you had in London. Yeah. Where you can express your own ranting ego with no fear of anyone saying that's wrong. Yes. And you can go and be the nicest guy in fashion when you walk into somebody else. And conversely, so many people over the us of said, whoa. You did fashion. It caught college. Why didn't you do it? Now, why don't you create a line of clothing? Well, I don't really need to away because I miss my bullets designers in the world. Do you have? Icons for yourself. I mean, I think it's really interesting to them. Nothing without speaking of concrete plans. No. I mean. What what what I think is really interesting is is one of the things that one of the many things that's really interesting is that you've made yourself something of a fashion historian that you've researched you'll job, you, you, you know, it's history probably much more than most of the people that you work with. When you look at the history of the head what stands out for you is in the history of the hat on their hats, that were would have shed moments in millenary. Oh, yes. Absolutely. What I'm curious. I mean, the the. Poke bonnet, for example, in the eighteenth, century and nineteenth centuries. Well in the twentieth century is the shoe hot from Skopje rally, which is probably the greatest of all time, which I've studied the pattern for even have you ever made one yourself just to say. Oh, yes. Absolutely. But in fact, to I blocked it on to Manila blunt shoe. Because I thought he was doing the ultimate shape. So it should be based on the notion, and he's an old friends and advised me early on in my career. But yes, the shoe huts extraordinary, and in fact, so many house may during wartime with anti-sikh too because they will from recycled they were made from things from between the wars they made from which shavings from old waistcoats on buttons funny things, and that's very much the Galeano Italia. As it was that idea of recycling but in times of strife hats, flourish. What can we say that right now, then well should be flourishing now because I think we are living in times of strife. That's why hats the great because they can be. Just hats and simply optimistic and can be a fantastic Tony for the state of the nation. You did say that you'll had sought auto biographical. Can you can you look at your hats, look the career and look of your career in seat times when you'll hats reflected your blackest most despairing moments. Yes. Absolutely. And I would say that many of the early hands the time did in the early eighties. We're actually about still. In reaction to a compensation or reaction to dot dot com. Which is sometimes when they look ridiculously optimistic. Oh, quite talk themselves a little bit gothic, and certainly the blitz and around that time was a time of autism. I'm much happier. Being sixty two years old than I was when I was twenty one really. Yep. Totally because the hedonism then was sort of. Dancing on the lip of the volcano kind of hedonism. I'm in the world was really spiraling into a terrible abyss with aids and drugs, and absolute, and that's one thing that people don't really realize not so much the drugs thing because that was from choice. This aids research was not from that. And let me growing up an particular age in I came to London nineteen seventy six which was really at the beginning of punk and then punk within two or three years for us. So fizzled out and it was replaced probably with new wave or something and the music and fashions mutated into something different. And because we but making our own new world, an I certainly was interested in making my own new world and people look back, and they say that early eighties time is so extraordinary because my casinos like the face and ID and blitz magazine, we'll in happening, and Joe may bring Katherine ovens that there was an extraordinary creative time where we also Rushton hope John Lewis something which was sort of an. We thought we were invincible, but there was a certain strength of character or strengthen directional possession. But we gonna do that thing we were going to remake the world, and then eight opens, and we I mean to say that we recognize our fallibility was an understatement. And suddenly our world. Was MS ova. We probably thought we were told die within a few years. I mean, I know Tim that you would it through the same. We living in America Toronto down and the same thing was happening. Then I mean, people did not know wash it walls. I remember. The this. Thing. And I remember him in my work from people wouldn't sit toast to me, and my work from I have my own pins. My own scissors my own Cup of coffee, and it wasn't it wasn't because of that judgment. It was because people didn't know what was going to happen. I had no idea. But we knew as far as we were concerned. It was the end of the world. And I think that was the very dark period of design and within the width thing about that. In the middle of all the fat, you had fashion, and you had Paris than you had working with Terry Moore and during the NF show in the beginning of come to Goss on so fashion, bang of untested, maybe ridiculous antidote to the wolves problems came unit being escape and communicating in a way that politics certainly never could. And do you think that is do you think that prevails at notion that that that is fashions power in a way that it is it as much as it reflects what's going on it will? So it also projects into this ideal world, actually, not maybe not an ideal world, it reflects it projects into a it's a it's a common tree that that that maybe illuminates ways Ford, and in some kind of idealistic realistic way, let me say function, but actually appearance of however, we want to appear whether it's buying a new spunky top from a fast fashion retailer and wearing it on a Friday night and having a fun time on the on the disco dance floor. That's what appearance and fashioned is about and yes, we can dance when things falling down around us. You feel? It's a power of your work too. Well, hopefully when we put a hat on the world does not fold around. The hat protects you from it full. Sometimes put in. Protection? When the siren goes off. But yeah, I mean, I that people use fashion and appearance for all sorts of different reasons. But certainly hats used in very basic way of communication in tribal societies you might be naked. But you will still have something on your head. It's such a signifier of power status. Well, youth masculinity femininity is the most visible sign on the body. How would you say your feelings about the hat of change from being twenty one to being sixty two? Apart from becoming you'll world. But also, what do you what do you feel about the hat? Now. I feel about me hats, mutated throughout the centuries. Not in my hats of the people's and people say, oh, that's getting back into fashion will. Yes, maybe but maybe in fronts, it's going down. Maybe in America. It's it's this thing which is always in movement. How am I had my attitudes Tut's? I think obviously, then when I was twenty one it was the great unknown. Now, I know much more about it. But the crazy thing about fashion is that every six months you have to reinvent yourself. So that there's a ways new things to do you places to go? And if you think you know, it and know how to do it. But maybe you just getting lazy because you don't know how to do it. So what does? So you save is every every six months, you have to sort of reassess. So what's your challenge? Now when you. You approach a a season. Now, do you do feel you need to be wilder? You feel you need to be you. You have the freedom to be more sculptural. Oh what what's what's the story right now? The story right now is that maybe it's great to inspire people. In spite of myself, and I have a business to run and many many many different things, and I won't have fun with designing. And that fun in appearance is something that I really want to communicate to other people that they can have fun with their appearance too. And that even though the world might be falling rat down around just spoke about this before that there is something that they can do for themselves or I could do for them with a hat. I in in a funny way the reasons why I do it. I didn't think about too much, but it is my chosen method of expression, in the way that a mathematician is numbers of that chosen way of expression in. Newborns f you do it gets gets to a point in life. Where if you have to say something about something, you can do it through speech? We can do it through any of the sentences, and I choose to do it through hunts. I think posterity will recognize the chant -ment of what of what you did. You know of what you do that we live in an age where people talk about storytelling as being very critical in fashion and everywhere else, you need to have a narrative, and you know, I look at the hats, I walked through your your shop here or looking at the show in Brighton will any of the exhibitions that and everything is telling you a story the hat speak hat speak in a way that nothing else. Does. It's quite strange. Yeah. No. When the Hanson filtered by Stevenson's traveled the world, it was the second high had. The second highest visited numbers of any decorative arts exhibition. The biggest one was. American woman at the match the, but we did more than San at Petit Palais. Now, it wasn't because they were Steven Jones hats is just because hats communicate in that way. I have one last question for you. Because it it. It does make me laugh the story. I read about you being pasta on New Year's Eve nineteen eighty and you'll fringe shaving your head. And you never grew your hair back was he realized that you'll head was a perfect size to try heads on do you? I remember ask Manalo Blahnik whether he's ever tried his own shoes on and he said, no. And I was. Was once there was one time. There was one time. But Detroit will you'll head some not all of them. But if I'm trying to design something the will be point vow tranche on myself and see what rhythm it has to it. Because the any way that you can check the rhythm and the balance in the hat is by putting it on. And it just highlights and puts everything into focus is like cleaning the lens on a camera. Suddenly it is all that Geneva. Favourite hat. No, not really chain. I mean, you can say somewhat tritely my favorite Hudson extra. I'm getting to design. But no, that's not true. A few hats, which are my favorites. There was a hat cool rose, Royce, which was a little top hat, which is the top in some scrolled into this flower which sends a bit Naff, but the something which is simple perfected. I'm Penelope changes. All the time really changes all the time. And do I have. Do I wear a favorite hat emotionally myself? I'm somehow at the moment, I'm being cast into wearing favourite hat by the fashion world, which is something which comes when you sixty two doesn't come when you thirty five which is being this grandee of the fashion world, which who dispenses. Well, it's wisdom, which I think is totally Larry I remember I was mother one saying to me give me a new responsible sixteen year old. I'll give you an irresponsible sixty year old hit that age. And I also remember this time that I did it fashion show boat of Goodman, and this was with dawn Mello who was extraordinarily lady. Who then went onto Gucci and hired Tom Ford to be the designer Gucci. And she was head of Boto Goodman, and you could not meet somebody who is more elegant all Soignes than her. And Jane, this latch show afternoon after lunch with thirty clients, and we had various goals whose house models and Mussa worked in the department, and we wait in in very much backstage. It was in the non-glamorous uncompensated cordial of bug dove Goodman. And I said, I was terribly worried about the show. I mean, not actually in tears, but almost in tears and say, I think it's going to I said, I said to do, and I think it's going to look really really amateur. And she said, Steven don't worry. She said we'll all amateurs desperately drench, look professional, and I've kept that with me for thirty five years or something because. Yes. I think if you feel that you have become professional that says silently arrogant. We know we always learn learn every season by what we're doing. And then you have to build that into the design and create something new. Well, I think you've done that very persuasively. I I feel I've just been talking to a consummate professional knew. Thank you so much, Stephen. I mean, we'll make it up as we go. Didn't you know, look at me? No, I make everything what am I saying? I live in a fantasy world. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. 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Brighton Stephen Robinson Mr. Stephen Jones London America Vienna founder and CEO Steven Jones Royal pavilion Tim blanks Paris Imran Ahmed Queen Mary Balenciaga Clarks Clark Boto Goodman Hudson Poggi Jones London club Boston
David Bailey on a Life of Looking Again

The Business of Fashion Podcast

1:06:16 hr | 4 d ago

David Bailey on a Life of Looking Again

"They used to be. We're not saute kennedy as the shooting is never been a time. When the entire world was in the same position you know with with this pandemic. how does it make you feel about what you do what. You've done official instant. I found this killed photography in a raid nostalgic. Are they available as powerful. You can never get it back to future the in chessen. Hi this is. Ron ahmed factor and ceo of the business of fashion. And welcome to the podcast this week. Our editor at large. Tim blanks sits down with david bailey. The famed photographer who has authored dozens of books but his new book look again is an autobiography and as the title suggests fairly is less interested in reminiscing upon the past and more keen on pushing himself in authors to look beyond first impressions. Here's david bailey inside fashion. Do you remember a while ago. We work together with debbie. Neither remedy leave lose. That'd be debbie. She did a she did. A magazine called scene magazine We did a story on Supermodels like of ten years later. That sorta store. It sounds awful awful. It was really good the days where we really really good they were. They were sort of a really beautiful black white portraits so We'll start start with look a gain Look again why have you called your book again. I'm curious but i always try to look the twice. And i look anything like josh senior property on us. That is a good catchy name to they went to the konate. Look now look again. And that's what you want people to do. Because that's what an autobiography gives people. Do you think of it as an autobiography. Just another book. Really seventy food samuelson. Says he fully five books. Yeah incredible first biography. But i you know. I think that when people write a book like this Looking back on such an incredible career. it it usually has a. There's usually like a very clear that there's a very clear purpose. I mean you You know people want to settle schools or people want to want to correct misconceptions or you know people want to wanna make sure that this story is told the way they want it to be told how. How do you feel about look a game. What was i didn't change it much. More or less is lawyers things as legal reasons. But there's nothing. I objected to his fine. I figured jospin someone's biography where you should do what otherwise don't get summit in agency and i have you know james of long time. Now currently michigan easygoing. He was dashing. Young jokes cities since this book is lost two Came great friends. And how was it working on the book for you. How did you find going back. Into the past and leasing people you hadn't seen for a long time and you know having conversations with them I was oil. Unless i've been in touch with anyway mean hope to these once twice a year the city i saw another armand people like that i. It wasn't difficult nomoreza. Give him a son giving ankle. I liked it was funny. There was a funny sort of subtext in the book. You would say. I never liked him. Well he never liked mayo. I never liked him. You know i. You put sessile beaten on the cover and yeah you said you didn't like him very much it's not right. It's a great picture on the cover. I mean that picture. So provocative i think is my teacher. I forget how we showed it mirrors a very slow Came around they sit votes. Make said. I suppose some kind of job. I can't see much. The threads he was he was very talented. So i forgive everybody very talented miss maintenance lia could do everything he was great designer in my fair lady is on land that might seeing the other races where he says the also is when it watching the As he was section of land kind of the diametric opposite of you what wasn't taken his approach to his Is work could say nice. Things considered saying she said lesbian. When he didn't say greta gobbo that would that would explain law. Let's I'm not sure Win felton invade very good friends. Good friends you know this book. I imagine this will probably introduce you in a way to people There will be people who've senior photos. But who may be know the story. And so i come back to that. Cover photo the way you. That's the way you want people to see you. I was so intrigued by that photo because he look sort sort of sultry in black leather pants and that very come hither look. It's quite. It's quite as striking um image to choose. That was thin manager. Suba minnesota in the my is really wasn't veiled. Young and i teach was intriguing because he wasn't show who is new mall. Yes exactly and that's better. Yeah that really is look again. Because i think you know in the book that that that is the story that that your terence donovan said you never ambitious that you just wanted to do. I mean you as a group the black trinity. Or whatever you where you know whatever Norman consent called you. You just wanted to do the work. You want ambitious. I'm curious about that. Show what terry men i think. Ambitious against other pre federal grasso was no competition with trainer ways of approaching the camera Men and women. I get more women and duffy was sort of houston's lecture labus was intellectual not donovan. Duffy was complete guy. When he's i mean he's so differently from everyone they both irish always been attracted the irish twice some slu. I grew up with irish and jews and others infringed on stints and not enough that the the early people. Just don't really live lives like that anymore. I'm that the early days starting out in the blitz and all those stories about The stories you tell about about your childhood and about your family and you know i it just it just doesn't happen like maybe it does. I mean maybe it does but it's such an incredible story. I guess i really really wanted a lot more. I wonder how much more there is to say whether you felt that lawyers address a book. But i wonder i wonder how much more there was to tell whether you felt. You'd set everything you want to say about you. Post i to say nice way really as it. Maybe we'll man is is is is now but the always be friends with the easiest transplant. So you have to make an effort to be threatening In chicago after deal with everyone from no block strapped down the cornices acquaintance. You have to behave with these. I mean you had some pretty intense things happen to you. I mean you you endanger allot. It feels like to me or not really more. Look as a non hills or somewhere like that. That was more thing Send what kind of things did you mean what i mean from you. Even had the balking boys beating you to say when you see the crater professional villainous. They made money whereas boys to go. That's a run cry kind of breathing down your neck and then you had the naga hills and you had. You had the work the work you did the sort of activist work that you did. You know when when when you went to the sudan and fight across if you're on yes most is arrested at sudan. The info that civil suit capsule sudan code. Oh god knows i. Dot com dot dot com is not. Finish me in the sense to me. possible. I said who will stab. We could be a not great with his. Six six nigeria. He said. I think we begun so that rooms. They drag me off the room. Eventually i convinced him he said why'd you. An agent stereotypical five floor. In the moment he said but the emperor was the open up a new phone Slain gomez Is they must stitch surgery of this delivering out of jackson's on the plane Twice the way that this was never seats in the players those cargo planes and swing reporter india. Believe me so. I go right. I'm just playing back but did you. Did you feel There's there's there's always there's been a lot of sort of a lot written about photography go who put themselves into these extreme situations. I mean did you feel. Did you feel that that was a sort of sort of addictive in a way to to go to these places and to test yourself stream ways it was just policy is you're gonna go to naga hale also afghanistan Places so i went. You know that my but it could happen said it could happen semi nugget Scary his visit is everywhere. People everywhere i i. I just saw a documentary on helmet. Newton and i thought it was really interesting when he said he used. His camera is protection and you know when he was photographing june when she was really When she was really ill when she had that terrible operation the only way he could look at her was through the lens of his camera because it was just so terrifying what he was seeing. Did you feel at just want to say. I love ellen's book. I think we saw we've found where he was may was originally so invents the way of getting a new way without near green Special guts and jewish sunny. Make sure that you are the main one. Erica's juniors company ideas into reality. I'm almost anybody else. But i thought that he seem so fearless and so kind of and so radical. In a way i was quite surprised to hear he Somebody say that he actually was quite a fearful person and he used his camera to protect himself. You know that that that gives you the distance from difficult things. I thought that was really interesting. Is you don't receive pictures. Do computer contact ending. I that was scary but amherst Cheese absolutely true. That is why get shots as the i e. company touch. Yeah exactly like sean. Flynn errol flynn's son. He's a famous one isn't he. Disappeared in vietnam About toby do the something else. Another of your friends said that i thought was really interesting. Bruce weber said you always take pictures of what you want to be. Which i find quite interesting as well bruce these intellectual bruce kind of sweetie good guy i think bruce fashion Yeah but what do you. What do you think of that. I mean what you think of. That is a notion that that that this is why i guess what he's saying. There's a kind of wishful film in sotogrande and away when you're taking pictures with you. Advertising advertising of most corruption away because is always you better world. that's why you sell things taper acid lookout for say If you get the eight-year-olds you've Year olds always would. Hi this stroke. About a year ago. And i got It's not as the nike. I quit disdainful Let something yeah. I know i have spent has the same thing. He had a stroke as well said it's the same. He just loses woods so i'm a bit dyslexic. Federal is quite nice being either. Get what you've seen. So sometimes i see the same movie and i think this is good half an hour. She's tweet i l. lewis bet that happens to will. It happens to me a lot. Maybe maybe it doesn't happen to everyone but it's true. I can't believe the things. I've forget. I see something i think i will never ever forget this and i i must you know. I don't have to write down. I will never forget this. It's gone gone. i forget it was suddenly teaches them. I say tonight through that. I wanted to ask you. Do you go back and look at your look at your old pictures do you. Do you go back. And look at box of pinup so goodbye. Baby and i'm men and and a votes like dunham stroker's especially in the areas represented the Research speeches expensive Bentley loser coupes. The questions eight now. I mean do you ever go back and look at them and reflect on momentum i now because each Seasonable you'd book or something like that so knowing that back i'm not ready to know saudi i think is the policy. You can never get it back so united future. That's interesting. I just think it's really interesting in elton. John never listens to his old music. David bowie never listened to his old music. And it just seems to me when you've got such an incredible body of work. I would just be looking at it all the time and and would just be so as well. Maybe i wouldn't if i'd actually create an incredible body of work but you know i just wonder when you look at that book When you look at say goodbye baby on men do. Do you remember like the picture of julie driscoll for example member julie driscoll incredible. And i mean do you look at that and it all comes back to you you know you just get that incredible surge of what an incredible time it was. I don't trust we should have done last night. Done my lance mostly great Off the any other way out tricks spoke black lines around. Yeah sometimes that looked announcing chits announcing that is wrong. I think roughly made the right to say how it should be presented. There's a very perverse thing. I thought that the picture bret. Brian epstein is huge and the picture of the beatles. Petri lennon mccartney is really tiny. I thought that's that felt given in the book you say you went crazy about. The beatles like stunning so rooted in especially the one who got shot inches. John lennon jong edgy. Skyway is really nice guy with the mom. When you were taking pictures you like to kick back from people did you. If i i mean bad news good news and the takes peaches not sausage like it just say can i say Shooting i mean now you want opposite for joe was always at ag. Haddish says joint with me on top of the atlantic city. Said he said. I guess i made to join the with and margaret thatcher was was. I'm intrigued by that story that she wanted to sit and chat your. He puts everything aside by our Schrief months thomas. She said says day than sunset junior twenty seven. I'm doing that and she. She put aside and he's time spoke out. Take taking pictures. I'm quite click so after twenty minutes. Dosing a finished. It is she said look. We just have to have simpson so because got nothing to do for the next two minutes. Oh fifty minutes fifteen. Exactly what it's worth so. That was interested in helmet accusers. The sexiest woman in the world. He was dying to get it into benefit could easily cubans one god. That's an image s. He said well yeah he probably was creative in bad too. So maybe i'm an margaret thatcher would have enjoyed that or not but i'm it's definitely something to reflect on as time pauses. What what When you say that people came in a bad mood and people came in a good mood who who was the biggest surprise. You haven't cited grasped but was you photographed. You have photograph. I mean who haven't you photographs. You really can't be very many people. You have no surprise conspiracy. I would expect the unexpected. Never throws wait another Shedding victory five minutes. They made now. They said the queen for five minutes off a date. So easy for me not Difficult is that like gas. Something i might get. I'd probably is so cheap because you get away. ed's from the chinese somehow get reaction. Is i see. I get that from everybody. Anyway i can see why by your library bit like mine. Actually celia glow i work. I've worked in fashion for a long time and you know as an outsider I never was a fashion person. I was always an outsider. I want you would did you. Didn't you sort of feel you would not outside at all is well. At least i that i that is putting him from the from. Easing into vogue People to properly The first people swail that was the the show and the is doing skis fans and let she that have been shot Nobody up three. Should everyone everyone interested. Nitty the difficult. See him he's not fabulous Accident it's too late that was bit. Roosevelt arranged We're going to do that. we're going to show. Let's remember. But i guess i mean that's the thing is when like what like what john lennon said. When it's you taking the picture people You know it says slightly different from somebody walking into take a photo for a you know a magazine story of something that it's a bailey. Bailey moment so you it feels to me like you played off that when reading. The book appeals to me like you were able to kind of use that quite successfully throughout your career. If you're genesis more got to use everything go. Because it's no. I mean. She's go. Photography monkeys attack among Yeah it was a bit like being on the east coast. It wasn't it was like one of your choices on state invaded jazz musician. It's much much as people's will pictures payments much. Even when i vote for ten years may made a says. I knew from the eastern. This might sound china. Find said still unless much you make it sound in the book like by doing that because they felt they were keeping you keeping you in your place. When they said that they'd been wanted to get a big head from being this sort of you know famous person on have a big in east and they seem to really be careful. It's my mom's she was of cheese to lame us might go thens. Their background was either one of I just i reading the book the stories about women you brought home to your mother. I mean it's pretty incredible. I mean jean. Shrimp dan penelope tree cats hunting. A i mean. It's not not been not the women that they're not the the women that Average east and mom would imagine her boys the boy it would end up with. I think she. I didn't worry about about appertains. Tensions she wa- she takes Made but she she said a. Jean said i can't find. The cheetah goes about amount of sushi is being focus. James just asking the question. She said the blankets about what you think. A sheet about the automobile in a blanket and went on for. Ajay was one of them out there. Do you know at the end of At the end of goodbye. Baby and i'm a. There's an essay called epitaph. And there's a pita evans who wrote who wrote the words in the book. And he he makes a connection between the twenty s and the sixties and What is he call the sixties. Like a a something of the twenty s a encore is something of the twenties. Do you agree with that that that that that that happened. Then and now we have a situation where you could almost right a similar thing about the connections between now do see those connections from having worked you know for the last sixty years Can you see the way things come in cycles. i never mad about. Please writing bet than he's kind of journalists in said that though is tricky journalists but wasn't is winding lifted. May i. I was surprised francis. Wyndham didn't ride that book. Actually yeah. i'm surprised. I don't show rented on a mcvay trends clitoris journalists around 'cause Up i didn't understand how they knew. Eight counselor told anybody that story With shocks eastbound. These evaded confessions made. He said a two hundred page synopsis on photography. What was he goes. Antonioni in pannonia explains loss sunday. Realize that the big monique It's i said oh let's rise journalists have you have you. Have you seen blow up lately. Do you ever have you ever watched. Yeah i saw. Excessive caffeine dinette. On the in new york. I forget the behind them index massachu- to get in and the yeah. I didn't i didn't like i didn't like antonioni. I'm messing later. I mean not when amazing new. I 'cause i never met him. I miss him about ten years ago. I guess we speech it was funny as a big open making gestures. I said he's making just as his paintings in the south upside down. They were abstract lee. Ten round elevators. riot stupid Wrong but what do what do you think about about. I mean that is kind of the way the world sees you as as as that character Do you feel that was it. Was it wildly inaccurate. Or i know will jumping around. That you said that that wasn't that wasn't true to the true to the moment janez. Take the key scene than a here. I mean you might say something about. I don't like harry cues. They bindi sense actually just like cabbages and sunday The bachelor which is just invention. I mean it's it's doug. Jones is because ryan ballots. Some somebody different everyday During the coal mine next to the nuclear scientists may write about the truth. must Inside so that was really what happened with you. Do you think that you've got sort of you got you well as as you say in the book. Did you invent swinging london You nikki has them. Did you invent swinging london. And it's it's you're so you know emblematic of of of that moment. And he's truly can just mandy. Nick understood. I mean. He came from a closet. Didn't understand from a from the chelsea things at nikki came from Video i think tomato swinging sixties came out with a fifty after the war simply can nominate Ryan till may have finished in forty. Six hundred forty five is really went on fifty eight. Stealing still poop is by show or something i mean. was going longer than the wool and was just as bad as the war. So i think that was a rebellion against the fifty So absolute beginners the column mcguinness book which she talked about was really where you the sixties began in a way. That was more like me than blow up when financed away. I didn't know him mess him auschwitz. Who's a great friend of remitted extra of sons isale people made off to tyson's remains ingredients comic greek and he said yes. You're right you're tweet. What was the greeks were art and the romans will power. According to colin mcginnis debates. I must say it. Just thinking about that. Time thinking about The the incredible explosive creativity in the sense of the new. You know the shock of the new deer think that's even possible anymore nine Change with a in cities because they iphones killing photography Jason feature now. When i i told you when trimming out of funds taking features of people as they really officer in ways made into the kind may who've most democracy democracy need style a good idea in the way the eden. Ever do that again. I don't see the climate. It's gonna be interesting when we get back from Locked down the way. It's changed everything. It will change things like sure to mention what it changed company with shorts in the change. Everything i think. Fashion will be very different priorities. Be very different And how do you. How do you feel about that when when know this is a moment. It's such an extraordinary moment. Everybody says unprecedented but the entire world is in the situation. The ever been a time when the there's never been a time when the entire world was in the same position you know with with this pandemic out does it. Make you feel about What you do what. You've done Does does it away. Light is bit like a war since the what was thank you everyone around the world issue even try it was. China had the lead everywhere in the world. Voice bit light. It's been lightly. Not i knew the second world war About age when New enough said no. We changed everything suggests everything. I mean the play the last eight it much medicine Play and also led to the renaissance in a way So led to a cultural renaissance after it had killed everybody Very rare to get cut down trees used to be fifty a decent Fifty they could shop labor around that was true But it does. It does it. Does it make you feel differently about your work. What you because you realize now how much you work is a record of a moment that that is gone and it it does attach quite a lot more significance to it in a way. Doesn't it in a way i mean. Yeah i think is. The most photographer died inside Fades away bit. I mean helmet. Hasn't diseases athletes pitches. But eventually will say. I didn't believe somebody dressed address but that's just been superficial thinking lead time when you look at a picture. Look a seventeenth century. Painting looked at it as well appeared was appeared. Not what you think it would be. So everything's changed. And yet the being free song i mean when i look at like when i look at the dow photographs for example from the very beginning of photography and whether it's a photo of baudelaire or whether it's a photo of a basket of limbs amputated amputated limbs you just get that sense of somebody with this incredible charge of looking at something for the first time being able to show people what it is that he's looking at and i don't think photography would ever lose that kind of immediacy no matter what you know the best photographs. Don't lose that immediacy no matter when they were taken really one of the best on the greatest creativity on just did features voice saw yes make anyway glamorous yes the idea was trying might give his eye on the white background. I get clinton still. There's no what background left is the person do you think that do you think that's an in a way. The impact That was your impact that you took photos of what you saw the photos of gene gene. The new york of gene shrimp and a new york. That it's just you looking at her begnaud really fashion photos. It's you looking at jane shrimp than a new york. And i think that's why i mean. The clothes are old fashioned. Whatever that you know they look like the clothes of the period but there's something about that those pictures that really has losted really has people go back and look at those photos and they feel the change happening in those photos in it aims. Not signing like me. He believes thank dangerous. They couldn't believe a federal graph g with a puddle in from dog shit year. I mean it's not a full story by by the object Fold as that helped me get infested. Buying lots enroll navy. The general is in the navy He changed his clothes like st times at night and we had the same logo follows ways against my father was releasing. An easy likes now. He was with eight. I think is. He wasn't paedophilic guy if he would you you talk about that quite a lot in the book that that That you always been hit on by people you always waking up in your men tongues down your throat or their hands on your leg or and then you. It's quite interesting when you speculate a little bit like maybe you should've explored that side of yourself. It's quite i find that quite interesting. I never gotten along william saints. Nick friends and now it's sort of interested in. I mean that people would say oh. You're in you're in touch with your feminine side or something like that which is why women loved you said much in which is why it was so easy for you to insinuate yourself into into people's lives and and do the work that you were able to do because you just seemed like it seems anyway that you was so fluid you know you are able to just float above all sorts of get your way out of very tricky situations anyway. From my mother's she used to go to the west end scenes Aunt dolly the machinists. I love on dolly the just hundred feature and they used his child close. Then i'm and i a new new. My mother swelling around against the back. Light winds suffice. Oh side tactic. I didn't federal thing. But when i grew older i realize it was taken. But that was my first Taken by brian Fantastic images this woman Bisness new scott quite long Fantastic i that that's sort of a rosebud moment for you. You know where your consciousness kind of expanded into something completely new. You also talk about the lead soldier the little toy soldier that you melted on your mother's ion as being another rosebud moment now. It's kind of curious about why that would be. I should probably explain for people who don't know that rosebud moment is the end of citizen kane when you're trying to find out what the reason for somebody being the way they is they are and his sled is being thrown on a fight with his stuff being destroyed and it's cool rosebud and so bailey's rose. It is a little lead soldier that melted. His mother's is on now why. I'm curious about that is no seder dejected. Don't even that many poison during the toys to change instinct ponca. Yeah each talking till ice. Yeah be diminishes spectrum. Bunch of these let soldiers. I didn't realize lead melted on that. And i'm pretty on my mother's on see what was happening. Just turned into the no silver boo rundown. It was science fiction. Make lewis shape in any y. Y was that a rosebud moment for you. I'm curious what what what changed view when the when the little finger melted. I loved him. All assays said loss full. It was transported. On alex you could sell a syllable for sixpence. So you said you could sell leads for sixpence said and he seeks of. I mean i think somme the rub my rosebud moment. Reading a book is to find out that you've been a vegetarian. Since he was thirteen years. Old i mean that is to me that is that speaks. Volumes was hot in these then Moves with me. It's definitely mates. I remember arguing with my mother by the end of the century. She's on house everyone to be vegetarian off right. I think hostile much more visit chance now anyways said the is what you feel. I mean announced his my son but was was that a point of principle for you or was that you being contrary or is it both. I don't know. I mean i've got my our f- certificate. is in national singapore malaysia. And i had I didn't make which could mean the not roy's to eat plastics. god. I can't imagine what they you don't mandates but you think i'm a that a natural kind of contrary us Did kind of drive you from a very very young age that you were you when you saw something when you would when you look at something you would wanna kind of kind of make a creative Deconstructed and create the sort of opposite to it I mean i may may most funny ivan might restrict. T. commercials sidetracked. You use of commercials. I twenty five years. I think and that it was good for me. Dyslexic say look I see immediately. Impeaches insead words. I look Trick and i can see. It is nice peak Chemists thoughtless navy's commonsense run commonsense articles. It may making eighty filmmakers. Because i can see exactly as you should look the sink. Engages events inking. Let's but you made those incredible antifa. Commercials that adjusts you. You would never afraid to kind of court controversy tool not when and standard jones. You saying the book that the you you centrists and fashion in the seventies and we Fashion day heels from another truck. Another stroke Another another go. Edison's awful else. Have you done shoes nitrogen. Tell you choose. I bring a sheila's did nine thing what is she leads shoot. Lanzi shoulder isn't one. It sounds very likely then. Somebody like kate. Moss comes along and complete completely. Sort re animates. You'll you'll interest in shooting models clothes and things infections. J simpson kate moss Williams seen Aso not a bit like a similar waco's standard. Take pictures do the same thing with both Everyone likes him. Stokes as a vegetarians in one loves them. They will love gene kate. Moss chicago wrong saying they're not Tax sick G. new everywhere. She hadn't instinct to whether light was. She knew exactly what was conscious. Something in its older moves. Wake lights balance. You always into in the right place. He's net hines a difficult instills in the wrong place can ruin everything just knew. It wasn't doesn't use and she just is it both exceptional Dynamic jeans well. yeah Informed people. I think what what was so from that experience what i mean. Maybe you just set it there but what what. What made a good model for you. In in across said that was sixty to sixty to the twenty first century. that's a span of time and those those two women what did they. What did they as far as modeling goes. why why would they so for us so wonderful. Your cheese is struggle state lost and just gene the wing and she knew i mean i guess she changed you eight hundred agendas on something. Music comes In maudlin sky. Difficult job i mean when they feel about me in school which not. We not get his code with play. Jay z while. You're getting a model while you're getting anxious to lakes a model to model into me but insisted zero on it wrong. I'm an actress. gene trump. Dan we would take that on. Kgo w south tell you. Laugh as we take manhattan. That was another one a knick which is a. I think it'd be famous. I loved those american jewish songwriters. It'll fantastic that was landed cohen. Yeah i'm first we take manhattan. Yeah take remember that. My face like pay when was heart. He styled with anti secrets as good as some poets pregnancy. I mean that kind of in that talker there. Probably the people in funny sort of way do this does it. Does it make you a tool sad that the the seeing women like jane. Shrimp then you know. She talked about how has said it was when she realized she was no longer a beautiful woman achieve. She had this sort of the transients of beauty. It is something that that really is at the heart of fashion. I thank desire and the transient will maybe the transients desirous will. I mean the huge subjects. For voss's soy's transcends beauty is one do you. How do you feel about that like when you look at your work. And you've you've you've made these time capsules in a way of of these incredible people who either entiere anymore will all a now. Kind of old. I i do. I've noticed that about. No great futures can load some of them Showing i mean unstuck. It's quite good Joel the member had big fight with the down sooner. Wants the these cops on much younger. She looks like a boss. Oh god that would been horrible appears. Gb refused anyway. He's he's just as sweet woman jane. I still see a low and penalty tree antastic cheese in a way. She's intelligent woman in person i've ever met. She gets faked the core of a clever. You you say in the book that you think about death every single day is that true not so much more now where it's just bilking. Mijo impedes pete so send me invitations. But when i get to be on the go back on the Spoke down yet. Knowing a death is not life. I mean that's true. I don't know i mean everything. Dies in union is gonna die one day Industry being years. I think it with member david. Hockney said the cause of death is birth truly. Did you think about think about your legacy. Do you think about this enormous amount of work. That you that you're leaving to to this incredible historical emotional social personal record. That you're leaving behind what will happen to. It'll show my. It's my shit. i'm twenty years old guts. I still don't think about that. I just think can. I know it is essential idea. Really so for chooses cassettes One against lecturers the food. You just nights change all the time booth like anyway so it was reality Out god is not reality. I think guard is more of a political politically expedient idea for people in it as a sort of spiritual snurge When you look at the world now what do you think what what what what what crosses your mind. What's happened to the world happened before. So i think i think my god. The plate was a bit like is now a good for the workers but faster than they do die so there's always gonna be disastrous in life. Because that's the way it is maybe not meant flemish always tokens me. My away yes. It doesn't bother me very much. Yeah i just. I despair what we're doing to the world around us said isn't that has now you know what we doing to how many hundreds of billions of animals die every year and and you know the sort of if there is such a thing as karma day. We're which is loading it on more and more and more the what we're doing to the planet. I find very very disheartening. Say that six year old jones's what about it. Yes well what. I know. My i do what i can. That's all i can say you. You said you're not nostalgic. But i get the feeling that you're very idealistic. I mean the book ends with you. back in balking with with Yeah darren rodwell involved in in. You know making the the regenerating the area i'm in. It feels that this is sort of political political activists there at the end of the book. And i just want. And then. If i go back thinking about ago back in this all these these idealistic things in the book. I don't know whether you would deny that because see you kind of very good at At kind of making fun of your better nature you know through the book it's quite. It's it's one of those little subtext. But do you feel you feel you. You're idealistic now. You feel that you would like that to be part of your legacy that you can leave something that is useful for people. I think that's unpleasant scientist that way. I noticed that i would send fits me. Perfectly is the think. I'm ryan the rights income wrong about live because i do not see things about election is obviously right. The right savio spit on the riot is a ho- confusion yet. So in a way. I stepped outside of politics because i'd never vote and if i don't i'm ready right to say i thinking where i mean i think to myself so i never. I've seen the lessing a writing. The writing of rodney's it's a tree saying but you'll also doing something though you just. You haven't advocated yourself from the from the process completely. You're actually engaged in in projects and and consciousness raising exercises. Which feels very optimistic to me. Last least anyway Full ride to These amna Loss case i mean it's still pretty woeful at the Good there were consultant indictment by support him. When i can't in fact have done. A new book roach balking. We should coming out in february. I think january Away and that's that's that's that's a book from what i understand. That's that's designed to make people look at look again. Look a gain at at balking and e salmon. Look you know. Take another look at the the way i do. I mean when streets in just john As difficult because if you take pizza people he looks like sometimes. it looks like it's business and don't be condescending. Look fatness woman is but except They're going to be my peaches. Collect on so they have feelings they just be lose some weight but really Care about it in a way that not committee to him not saint got well. I mean that's the idea of the book any picture you take. You would tell people whatever they see immediately look gain and they'll see something else you know you also talk about doing a new book of Pinups he said you're working on that from you know that that that very first classic endeavour with everybody from lord snowdrop to the to the kray twins. Just a incredible time capsule letters. But you said you're working on a new one in. We're going about three years action. We've probably get around student eventually. The moment i doing fashion but within the age is a good thing. It'd be a big big thing it'd be. Abc mouth is a cold. So it's incredible at suma meeting actionist my life. It was like accounting It's incredible and it sits on a table dislike special table. Just like an oscar as well. You know you summed up at that moment in the first box pinups with people. It was with people. Like the kray twins and mick jagger and and all the other people that were in the original book a really wide range right across the whole social spectrum. Who do you think sums up now. Who are the people that you feel. Define this moment. That's that's the reason to book is not not sticks out like used Melted down into one. I in the end. It's gonna be pessimism the bay personal because there's too much choice. Nabet you keep it so initial Americans french and wherever Global in a way that post. You're not really being mission. Waivers and what do you what do you find. Most what gives you the most pleasure now in your life besides sakes. Yes i was giving. I was being with straight is giving out feeding the line. I i wouldn't have expected any other answer but yes apart from sex. What else leo nursing. Like like i mean development. I've been. I've been down here for three years. We've been at least something. Mean is seen glove beautiful. Is this autumn. Specially beautiful says brown Ever seen i mean United states you get ota with Much as electoral issue Be ocean of your years. In a way is not strove as my bedouin If i think nature has been an incredible compensation this year for everybody. It's fina very strange state of affairs that as nature seems to have turned on the human species. It's also giving us this incredible visuals incredible visions of the world recite in everywhere. I look i seek inches. Someone's gonna take it with their life fun. That's why we're screwed up the way with. You can't compete with everybody in the world with the launch. On what pictures are you taking now not read. I do not seeing some paint. You a bid. Failure depends on the week. This week is painting because nothing Everything ups and Maybe d'appel it's just a two weeks just over time Do have you have one. Do you have a shoot or a set of images a one image. Even that you would that you feel defines you if somebody you know every every great photography you can usually think of one thing that that that really sums them up i mean. Do you have anything. Like bad and your. Yeah hey thank god. It is a favourite asia lemons. But what my say is. I've got one page. I think sums up. Everything was micro pancakes Probably in the mid sixties shame with a cigarette unlit. Cigarette clocks is always card. Socred some some some much. And i know michael. Is that one as well. That sums up sixty eight. Like many scott is mark. Which is long. I also love the photo of you in the end. The bowtie the sort of very very louche looking You you when you take a think to have all these photos of yourself must be very entertaining to look back. I mean this. This one i find. I'd never seen that one before. And that is just. The photo was so loaded on my god. This such subtexts in it. But i'm not that one of you and goodbye baby with a bow tie and you're looking completely looking like you've been out looking like a nineteenth century. Donna reason is a baudelaire you say. Yes exactly. i see. I would have said maybe younger. Maybe rambo but Streets loop I think that's how our so It's been wonderful talking to you and and thank you so much for for everything. Thank you anyway. But he shoots and if you've enjoyed this episode don't forget to subscribe give us a rating and you might be interested in joining the business of fashion's global membership community b. o. f. professional are members receive exclusive deep dive analysis regular email briefings as well as unlimited access to our archive of over ten thousand articles. Our new iphone app learning materials from piaf education.

julie driscoll david bailey sudan Ron ahmed Tim blanks jospin greta gobbo terence donovan labus naga hills debbie ten years Flynn errol flynn bruce fashion margaret thatcher Petri lennon jong edgy Haddish fifty minutes John lennon
Rick Owens on Why Fashion Shows Arent Going Away

The Business of Fashion Podcast

52:06 min | 5 months ago

Rick Owens on Why Fashion Shows Arent Going Away

"I. Realize I'm all about hope and I'm all about the pursuit of good you do say something like the world needs views it and that's one of our greatest skits. The point of life is you just do your best because you know. Eventually it will end, but while you're here. The whole point is to contribute. Hi, this is Ron, Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion and welcome to the podcast this week. We have a very special conversation between our editor at large tim blanks and the celebrated. American, Paris based designer rick. Owens one of my favorite things about fashion week over the past few years has been to listen to Tim and Rick speak backstage for Rick Show, and so because fashion week is not happening. We thought well. The conversation can still happen, and so we can give you a little peek into what it's like to be a fly on the wall. Listening to great thinkers speak about fashion and its future. Here's Tim blanks and Rick Owens inside fashion. Today with. This time this time of year. Rick and I would normally be back state show. So that's what we doing today. It said it's a digital. Catholic latch dump things just don't change. Some things will remain eternal Tim out coffey appreciate coffee. Obviously on. Since we lost salt. Four months ago. Entire World Change, and it's really interesting I remember. We were talking about Corona virus. And you said to me. Do you think this is the Big One? And at that time of we didn't really have any idea what was coming down with turnpike. But what do you say? What what what being you? What have been your your feelings US few months? well I mean with with all due respect to everybody who was under tremendous stress as. We had the luxury of having. Enough, space and enough trees. To be able to ride out to the quarantine Paris. And And it felt like a reset. the other thing that my my my. My first thought was Oh was it. With all of the contention and all of the Ecological Threats we have going. We've had going on for so long. it's a miracle that something hasn't happened sooner and we haven't. We have lived this generation without a. Without a World War I mean generations before sip certainly been through Huge disasters, and in a world full of contentious people sometimes. it's it's it just seemed like? It was almost a sensor per leave. Is that it terrible? Thing the state, but it was almost like okay. Something happened I mean it was bound to happen. Something was bound to happen and it's happened, and how were and and other people have survived? This kind of disaster before or similar hardships, and how is this generation with We're going to survive somehow altered. But how do we get through this gracefully Do you WanNa see where I am actually? Just to set the tone. Like! My God here in Santa's where landed. You Sit. On the beach you had just seen at the beach. I just came upstairs. Probably, GONNA. Go back after right after this. I, I kind of thought about just doing this from the beach. But the the sound would be grits. But anyway isolation in Paris in our house was was not certainly. Wasn't a hardship. And have nothing to complain about in we had. It was it was, so it was. It was a time to reflect, and there was obvious threat outside the door. which only made us appreciate and be more grateful for everything that we had to be able to have some time to kind of? Focused on it and I thought Meyer responsibility in what I do is to. is to be part of anaesthetic going to this generation, which sounds really lofty when I when it comes out of my mouth, but it it's Kinda true so I felt. this is not my. This is not the night before my runway show. This is this is science is moment. And all of the people in relief, efforts So My responsibility was to study and to absorb not to study to study as much as could so that when my turn to contribute came, I would be ready. and that's what I did I just. Concentrated on absorbing as much information aesthetic. That would serve me that would nourish me or serve me in the future collecting. Thoughts and inspirations and aesthetic history. And That was my focus. And sitate to say that it was a really beautiful thing, and it was almost more beautiful because there was a poignant side to not knowing. Whether I would ever be able to exercise any of this information or Use It in the future, but it doesn't matter I. mean the point of life is that you just do your best? Because you know that eventually it will end, but while you're here, the whole point is to. contribute and precipitate is best that you can. So that was my focus during quarantine. When you saying, we're collecting this aesthetic. Will you. From what we love! Books mainly books. Place. I was studying. I was studying people e w Godwin, the furniture designer, who had who I'd never realized, was such an important part of the ascetic. And, the pre raphaelite S- and I'd originally just started noticing him because of all the Aubrey Beardsley furniture and then I found like in in all of in a lot of Aubrey Beardsley Krantz There is this kind of unique spindly furniture. And then somehow I found out it was kind of it'll was he w got Godwin and then. I looked him up started researching him, and then his connection was with the ascetic movement. I just I didn't I hadn't realized. How important was And then he then that led me down the rabbit hole, old of he had been collected by do say shock to say is Jacques Cousteau Jacques. Do say the French designer who we really don't know that much about his clothes But he was such an amazing his collection, he he, he was the one that originally bought on Picasso's. Literally. The dumb was the the Avignon And Rousseau and And the first Eileen. Grazing his collection is like the catalyst of. Of all of all of the, Some of the most important things that we look at today And I remember going to the San Around Foundation because they did a show on shocked, who say's? Art Collection. And it's just really impressive. All of the stuff that he had that he collected he just and then when you compare it with his close, because his clothes were little bit conventional, but his collection was the most avant Garde avant-garde. I don't know. Utter now how that happened, but He hadn't originally why. He really did spectacular. Know. You. Are you thinking right now when you when you were doing your aesthetic And a half a season. You know we've talked a lot about that. The here that you felt was a huge influence on you when you're in your formative years. which was? You described them as Latin whites By? Silent Black White. Bible Ethics and I love the fact you sit all. We told somebody he told one of. View as long. You're inquisitors that you would watch Matt. Allen Nazem Office Salman in bed in the morning with Rudolph Valentino or salsa and I saw that a new exhibition in London I watched that that. Screening the exhibition? And you know it's so interesting. That was all being produced out of us. The mood that created by world wine. And, all of that all of that intense sort of. Hyper. Decadent. Hyper sort of. Hsun asceticism was a reaction to global catastrophe. And I'm just wondering if you feel, we're in a similar situation now that we might see and you could easily be a sort of. Leader in this planet movement if we might see. Similar kind of hyperthyroidism is sort of very refined. Very sort of Creativity will will. Bust response. To. The current prices. Will know that you're talking about A. IT seemed like it was an explosion of Censh- sensuality transgressions. Will sensuality just kind of borders on transgression anyway, especially well during that time especially. and. Always I've always been fascinated by art new nouveau because it's kind of foreign to me, it's it's. A Tremendous appeal in in the whole collapse to it it it. It really is about giving into your head in about about. A morbid collapsed kind of And I I've been thinking about fashion as a reaction to. wars. And I hadn't really been thinking that much about that. Particular example I was I was thinking. I was thinking about your too I was thinking about your after the war of being a reaction and being a. An explosion of. Opulence after deprivations. In. When we look at it from the from. From this generation it seems seems very obvious and very first degree. And I'm not sure if it was at the time because it was an obvious. It was almost. It was almost defensive. Be because people had been Under so much hardship and yardage just just fabric yardage yardages it was it was so. RAISCH ration. And then to have this explosion of Loggers Gertz with in a forty meters, if using forty meters of fabric. There was that was transgressed transgressive. And Just that Abu People. Responded to it. It could have been so offensive that people would would have rejected it, but instead they embraced it and I kind of wonder why, because it does seem like it would have been offensive and there must have been. The way it was done and that gesture that time in history there must, it must have been perceived how wit! Or as A bold gesture that the sometimes it can teeter on ridiculous or grotesque, or it can end up on the side, of Sheikh and people decided. Was She because. It's hard to imagine that the something that. First degree would have worked anyway. That kind of that kind of example would not work now obviously under these conditions because. A. I think there is a underlying suspicion that we brought this on ourselves and. something is self. Congratulatory has opulence after this just wouldn't work. But But complete minimalism and Guilt isn't really going to work either If you look at that example. You would think that this during this period. Fashion after this would become very. conservative and Modest and I think that with information ricocheting back and forth so much now I think people have already gone through the period of Of Modesty and maybe they're all. Maybe they are ready for opulence again already. I'm not really sure I wonder if I wonder if the word is indulgence, because obviously England as being on lockdown. and the weather is gorgeous right now and just there was a newsflash that is via state of emergency declared in south England, because the beaches of flooded with thousands and thousands of people. And the local authorities con handle, it, said the declared a state of emergency. So I'm wondering you know would set celerity. We have the incredible. The lockdown where people were very very obedience and followed the guidelines that were given. Round Bar issue of how? Lead US People who see people who consider them above the Warren is the regulations. It forces unhinged people as well to think that they can do. And the comes the moment where they can actually. Be Free. And they just go in your direction, and the new look is trying to is kind of A. Symbol of that of that reaction to restriction. I think you can't resist the sun and being outside because edges feels healthy anything. Nobody can nobody. indulgence I mean I think I. Just your instinct tells you that's what you're supposed to do. The other thing I thinking about their when. Regarding fashion though was. One of the things I've really liked for the past five years is that people are talking about responsibility and that it used to be a part of the conversation before that this recent the idea responsibility when it comes to luxury. And just that in itself is a tremendous dry and. His It is become a gimmick. Sustainability and transparency is become a gimmick. The lot of people are On a bandwagon about, but if it's even if it's again makes so. What is Great Gimmick? Let it be a gimmick because I mean if three percent of it works at still a good thing so So, we're having this conversation about responsibility and then something terrible happens. And afterwards. responsibility is going to be an even stronger. Direction. I think it has to be. So somewhere. There is going to be some kind of weedy responsibility. Whoever can do it in a witty way is going win. A I haven't figured it out yet. But I'm working. I would say you know. It's interesting. I was reading back. We had some really penetrating conversations over the last decade or so and. This is where I was so happy. We could do this because I knew I was going to miss Nisa. This season. But you'll. Commentary has gotten more and more pointed the you you've you've gone some fucking about living in working bubble. To being a lot more engaged and even down to. Those last two collections last men's nor women's Fletch, ironically feeling like anticipated in a strange way, eerie way. Where we are now where you. Way You would be saying. Bigotry is my bit Wa. What? What is by Bendler big? Zeal. Where you felt compelled and comfortable, making your collections comments. Rebuttal to big X, Y, Feld responsibility. Yeah would descend responsibility. And I mean right now. We're living in a situation where which is being. Considerably Worsen. Bigotry. And by ignorance and by. Greed and self and Selfishness. Isn't it amazing how it's gotten this far? I would have thought it would have been so blatantly apparent and grotesque that something that. is obviously. We've all so many people have recognized in and spoken about it that somehow it would have. It would have been enough of a reactions been maybe just as gone far enough Maybe were still waiting for the bigger for a bigger reaction I'm not sure or a bigger a bigger challenge. The Me Guan and later. And yet the biggest challenge when you say this big one, we went sure. If this was a big one. We still don't know where so kind of owens of uncertainty but at the same time. You do say you do say something world needs beauty. And that's one of our greatest guests. While! We're here, so. Beauty and play are one of life's greatest rewards I mean when you When you're survival is somehow under control when you have. When you have enough food and you have shelter on the next. The next thing to do is play and. Adorning oneself and communicating through the way you look is a. On it's. It's an ancient ritual So it, and it's an important part of communication it's it's one of our methods of education. So yeah, it's essential in. You know when people are talking about. Our fashion shows over I really I. Know they'll always be there in one way or another I think balls in like. You know in the seventeenth century were version of a fashion show. I mean they were. They were able gathering together. And adorning themselves, and in subtle ways, communicating with indicators so that's never going to go away and. Especially when there are. Analysts like like you who analyze the way people present themselves and. in. In in the fashion world, there's a couple of people that analyze things in in the most beautiful cultivated way in. I'm trying to think of how many there are other than you. Sweeping eight. Nash, No, you totally deserve it. Tim You totally your. That's that's why I'm here. I. You know. I don't really like to explain myself that much. Because either you get it or you don't, and that's fine. It's it's kind of. There's no amount of explaining. I can do. It's GonNa make you appreciate my stuff I. Mean It really asked? just has to work on. I impact I. Mean my explanation is not going to be there when somebody's in a store. Looking among thousands of racks My explanation is not going to be something that convinces somebody to buy my black skirt. So, But like I said going through these things with unit is great because a lot of times. You kind of you kind of touched on something that I hadn't realized I was doing. And when you mentioned it, it hits a Chord and of there's like a little jolt of recognition that that sometimes I wonder am I just agree with some thing like an analysis that I liked that I. appreciate it. I don't think so I think I'm I'm agreeing with I think I'm recognizing something that I might have. Not. been able to put into words maybe so much. Wind Onsang thing cereal sank things too many, so it's a completely it's. I mean the conversation that's what fashion is I mean in the most subtle way is that that is exactly what fashion is your? We're we're. We're telling people things about ourselves and and it's not always about status or Or beauty sometimes sometimes. They're more subtle indicators, and it's about how to live. Life in a dignified way may be or how to Or kind of suggestion values is some other people might agree with So yeah I'd Fashions Gray. Wanted, to I wanted to ask you about survival because we were talking about. When we talked about survival before within a Sula vote. Happy you create a an image bank threats. Resist the instant immediate solidification of of instagram how you create something which is more shortfall in provocative and so on. But now surviving lanes something different. So now survival is obviously. It's a much more primal issue in the light. What's happening now? So, how do you envisage survival now for yourself on how I mean part of that is how important where your shows is a motive communication I mean. Where will you create that impacts? Walesa's it. You're talking about I was thinking. Just going back to that I was just thinking about Well! Tim's not here to analyze this. We'll have to do it myself. Where I was looking at those shoulders in Arizona, he were what was what was the deal with those show? Why was did their shoulders just feel so right to me and I was thinking. Shoulders have always been about power. But these shoulders were A. They're more borderline ridiculous and I realized it was defiance. About A. Defiance in in the face of threat something that's always of fascinated me and. and to connect the dots Kinda like when I was in quarantine. I gravitated towards started listening to awards to Some of my the endings of my favorite operas S- Alabama and Obey Regard Strauss and Those endings, if finales first of all I mean the whole story. The story lines of both of them are just people miss. People having a sense of urgency in the most misguided directions at the end in the end. You know everything falls apart in the. In the? They. have this transcendent orgy of emotions and then die, and somewhere I was thinking out an after after quarantine, no wonder. A. I was kind of thinking about. Endings in and the most defiant, the most glorious way to to do that in how. and. That's kind of what. Why I was focusing on these operas because it felt like well, this is an ending. What's the US way to do it? Who has it been done right? In that were kind of? Kind of studying that. I was also reading. Edmund White. For some reason I just started reading there was that book unfinished. symph symphony about About. His lover's staff, and and how they negotiated and how they dealt with that and. It all kind of tied together. How do people get through endings? I mean reading monette which is. Very calm very compatible to Edmund Covering of Andrew Holleran dancer from the dance. Off My God you have to read that I. Mean we might be too old now i. mean that was kind of formative book? In my earlier years that I that was always. That was rapturous doom. It was just the whole thing was doomed, but in the most rapturous transcendent way. I probably learned a lot from that book. Actually you you did say one of the last times we talk IRA mansize to. Do, and that's part of my. That's what I've been doing for a long time, but it's not new I mean that's I think a lot of Art Nouveau was about that a lot of art nouveau was it was about a number or decadent sand into doom. And after that World War I think maybe that was a way of coping yeah I've I've been romanticizing doom a lot well. I wonder when you said the shoulders were about power I was. Worried about power. I realized they were about defiance. It wasn't about. Power Yeah to a certain extent. It was yeah, also cool that show, PERFORMA and S. Shoulders about this lumens because you know John also. Enter the room, basically Michael a source in a way I mean they will bette Davis and John. Kufuor with like the dinosaurs. In the Nape Whigham were. Writing, Harry, housing, movie Of Competitive Dinosaur boat I mean that was in those that was in those movie set. You love as well. Oriented I'M GONNA use that word a lot dinosaur. Oriented well. You're damn wrong. Gone. With kinda their way. I have. One frame that I'm you give good quotes? You really do I I. I heard that there's There is. One day that. Is is a book of Allen Citizens Because. best so instructive. What seen instagram. there's instagram. What he call feed called. goines boats I think in. It's it's in. I've gone to I've looked at it and. Yeah yeah, something's Kinda turned out good well, you know you say defiance and I think defiance is very important. I think it's something that. has come into the collections in a different way I. Think, there's always been at the science you've you even defying bigotry define fine orthodoxy define narrow-mindedness, some of these things that you've done really well, but sense now the last few elections. Will you embrace glamour? And you talk about cans I am a motorist David Bowie in and you and you let she said I just didn't have that much to lose anymore that it was kind of like. Uh. Contained as statement of complete liberation like you felt. That you to stay in your life where you have nothing left to prove. You doing this yourself from now. That might have been literal in the fact that I was lifting cans. Am Oto so much that I was quoting in so much in my shows, i. think that's why said that a bit I have nothing to lose, but I meant that because at this point kind of established what I do and who I am in. I don't think I'm really going to be accused of. Being somebody who rips people off that much. Anymore, whereas earlier you know, I might've been so. do you off? Well, you know I wouldn't I wouldn't have been possible without a without a lot of designers before me I mean. There's a lot of designers that obvious the. You know I'm not going to give a list of names prayer. You can say chose means for example because he's not here anymore. Yeah Yeah well. Yeah, let's talk about VNA and Madame Gray and fortune I mean all of those guys I totally I totally ripped them often. I still live. But I mean you know always said lay creation is is really usually a composition of things that have come before. It's just a personal composition of of of of. and that's your invention. Your composition is is your invention i. mean every in Vienna was. Copying Roman antiquity and God knows what Charles James was. was coughing like chips or some hang I mean his doubles so architectural and. was answering something. We were talking about how you said you have nothing you had. You had nothing you. One that opposed makes me think about with about legacy, and your united so interesting at legacy is always people if people get sort of. Antsy when you ask them about legacy, because they think that you're. About being irrelevant with something. And I loved that you have an incredible exhibition of Milan will was. I just imagine somebody who had never heard of you walking into that show. And just feeling like they had walked into. A sort of. A civilization that was pre human post, human or something, but you even Olga show subhuman in human and superhuman. And you sell it back soclean of. Of Your. Of Your will. I don't I think it's not an arc. Really it's. It's a cycle that keeps repeating itself. I think and I think it applies to all of us I. Think we all feel. There is we all have moments of self loathing and. and then. We all are capable. Of Cruelty and of bad behavior and we. and then there moments where we can rise above it and learn from all of that and become. better people so I think that that kind of. that. Title Discount. Applied to the human condition, and Things that were and that's going to be my message all along thing I. Mean I hope that Stealth forgiveness has been a big part. What I've tried to. Try to get across because we've all fell inadequate and Subhuman and We've overcorrected and we have overdone it sometimes and. At the end of the you're hoping you kind of reach a balance where you kind of understand what your flaws are and how to work with. And how to make yourself better and how to do your best, and that's all you can do. That's the best you can do So that's that's what that title was kind of suggesting. That cycle we think superhuman is the state of serenity. That no actually I know that I think superhuman kind of suggests something kind of more chilly, more cold, more super controlled which is. Which is appealing which is is is sexy, but it's not realistic. It's not realistic. and. The idea of being superhuman has been A great source of conflict over the years. And when ideal is that just? The just. Becomes Fascism I mean that's. That's a cycle that we've seen over and over again. But, if somebody said to you Rick I'm going to give you the power of immortality. What would you say? If some superhuman. Sure I did it. Will you be a mobile if you could? wouldn't anybody I mean that's that's kind of that's. The urge that means that moves his horror. That's that's what that's. What motive? Well? Maybe it's not now. It's dad that moves for. That's true the fact that. The urge to leave our mark before were gone Maybe immortality which is. let you relax and enjoy things. I'm not sure. But I I find notebooks. We get so wrapped up on the world and I think that's one of the great floors about time as you said at the beginning, we haven't had those enormous will until now. We haven't had those enormous challenges like world. War Z. Bikes, and and our societies being able to form itself in fairly serve. Savagely floored, but I I'm always I always wanted to what the future will make of this time. You know in five hundred years of if anyone list to analyze while what we were doing what you think people would say. Well. There's such heightened sensitivity I. once said you look forward to being. An obscure figure who was rediscovered in the future. I always I always wanted to be an exotic fashion, but no. That's that that was my goal. Are you disappointed? I. Think you know I think some of the people that I think some of the people that were interested in me are I. Think I? I think I might have come off as a sell out a lot of people just for the fact that I lasted this long i. mean when a successful. Yeah that. Wasn't supposed to have. Yeah I. I'm I'm just a little. I wonder. If this this this heightened this excruciating sensitivity and squeamishness is going to reach some kind of. Fever pitch in kind of just call up some kind of I'm hoping I'm hoping so because it's not very realistic. Idealism is great, but There's a lot of malice out their. Concerns me well, you did say that evil is. Ever present. that. Evil is in a in a strange way. Evil is the whip that. Makes good better you. Guests vice versa Islam, with good as with that night's evil worse, but you're. There seems to be some kind of purpose for for evil. and and I didn't have. That's being fatalistic or realistic. Yeah. Yeah I remember I. Remember One time I'd Agile matter. I can't remember rose in fuss about something, and he told me Richard Life isn't fair and I remember. I remember just turning red and boiling. And with fury. the that my that. My condition was dismissed like that Mallaig added. I think about it a lot. But do you talking about responsibility in in a sense you feel like you. You feel like you're in a place where? It's your role to write those injustices in a way that you. GonNa write a, but I really think that I need. To be some kind of ballast I need a balanced owl I need to in maybe balance it out sometimes in kind of flamboyant transgressive way kind of an extreme way just because. 'cause, that's the best we can do. We can just. We're not going to cure it, but we can. We can balance it out. It's matter degrees so i. do feel a sense of responsibility i. mean you know what I do video like muscle that is. In theory transgressive I feel like I feel like it's greetings if it's a I feel like it's a responsible ballots to to bigotry and. In cruelty of on. In the other direction well, Christine is an icon I mean you. She is an iconic something. Be Saint a synchronous sin. I agree with that, you you when when you got in touch with Mexican heritage mother being Mexican collections. Hey That saluted her heritage. What response to get those? Did you. Did you have people? Especially from. Did you get a response from your community and in Mexico? People feel about was That was A. Useful? Statement to be making. Not Really, but I'm not really. I suppose I'm not somebody I don't really go out there and Solit- solicits responses or Kind of my only engagement is through his through my clothes. I don't really. Have conversations about I didn't I didn't really get a response but I don't I'm not? I didn't need one. Just the act of doing it felt was just putting the right energy out there and. I didn't. I wasn't really looking for one or didn't need one or. UPSHUR was out there I'm sure sure there was appreciation or I mean elections like back when like the seven collection We. Will you really engaged with? A very specific community. I I'm always curious when I walk away from shows like that, I am curious. I'm not just saying I'm always curious actually. About whether you surprise yourself, you know when you when you young home after A. Night as it were. and. You'll see you've surprised yourself with John. Well I surprised myself that I pulled it off. Of because sometimes they're Turkey and and sometimes they're. Big could go either way. This is the sometimes there But I've always felt that. Everything that I put out, there was Put out with enough positive energy they it would be hard for them to be missed in through but I. don't know I mean in this day and age things it'd be missed unscrewed really easily so I. Probably it would be hard for me to take risks like that again. It's kind of a shame. I've thought about that I duNNo, I duNno, that's through forever. But. I feel that that's kind of the lessons. I've learned in the past year But that could change I'm not really sure. You think you will sick. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, I'm been! You know in my earlier years. I was I was I was. Yeah Immersed in doom. Wallow in being in it. but friendly. I realize I'm not bundle fundamentally. I. Realize I'm all about. And I'm all about pursuit of good in what I think back on everything that I've been doing. It I feel like I was able to do. beautiful things, but I was also able to talk about values that I believed in I think a lot of people share, and apparently they do because it kind of worked. People have responded So. Listed at all apparently. You the you. Voice been so vocal about the office the other. Pieces that you love the architects of filmmakers, the painters and were all terribly flawed flawed, but but also this is not. There's another interesting off I. Wonder if you can see a cell phone at the sort of transgression to redemption. Whether you see that in yourself fat if if you look at Lash. The shows that I was seeing. Fifteen years ago mid long. Whether you feel that in yourself that you've you've you've actually? Out of darkness into the light just in time. I dunno I feel like I have almost more energy than I did then almost more was a sense of responsibility to to Battle Bigotry, the bigotry it. I see happening right now. I feel. I feel like this. This period of resetting and reflection enforced reflection. As just recharged me. When you say redemption I think I think a thinking responsibility. I feel like I feel more than ever. That That they're. keep repeating bigotry, but it's such an all encompassing word, and it applies to Just such a broad range of things that frustrate me And I feel that I have more power at my disposal. To. More visibility to to oppose that and it's my responsibility to use it. I'm. Sure how how but a but? I was just GonNa. Ask How feel you'll recharge will mathis yourself from the world? It's it's hard to say, but I've trusted my gut for the past twenty years, and my gut is feeling raring to go so. It. Comes up and I'm a little surprised, but But. Here's hoping that that That there's there's still some ideas there. Will I have one last question for you I'm in the light of what you just said. You have described yourself as Dolly. Parton partner of fashion, and MAPRA fashion some each again. God! I'm who am I. who like a Beach Bar I'm just A. Guy Dolly. Parton Dali Pop iggy Barton. Thank you. So, it's so lovely to talk to you and I'm really sorry. We couldn't do it in person the votes all the Games. When we can and it'll it's. It's coming up and. Again you're one of the best parts of fashions really are. Of. Thank you there. Owes adviser books. Walk. New. If you've enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe. Give us a raid. INC, and you might be interested in joining the business of Fashions, global membership community. BE O. Professional. Are members receive exclusive deep dive analysis regular email briefings as well as unlimited access to our archive of over ten thousand articles, our new IPHONE APP and all of the online courses and learning materials from Piaf, education.

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Michael Kors on Why He Left Fashion Week

The Business of Fashion Podcast

00:00 sec | 3 months ago

Michael Kors on Why He Left Fashion Week

"If, you do not see ten to twenty times return on adspend on Brown search treat checkout in cart abandonment emails the same or don't know your online customer lifetime value. Then you'll e commerce revenue potential is not realized. Contact us today at skydive and delete DOT COM forward slash B. O. F. TO ACHIEVE The e commerce success your brand deserves. After forty years I've seen that I really think the system has certainly been broken. We always just do things the way we've done them in the asked everyone realizes that the whole systems knicks on does it make sense I'm just wondering how seal fashioned sits into this landscape that is feet. So radically Olson to see the public come together globally inherited your after watching the horrific murder of George Floyd to everyone say no more this is done. The difficulties have forced us all to slow up but I think there's GonNa be a wonderful rebirth. Hi this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business fashion and welcome to the podcast. This week our editor at large sits down with the American designer Michael Kors discusses his plans for Fashion Week September in fact Michael Kors won't be doing a normal show at all like some of his counterparts in Europe including salary in Gucci Michael is questioning. The efficacy of the current fashion show drill calendar, and so he's decided to present in a completely new format launching globally on October fifteenth on the brands social and digital platforms. He talks to Tim blanks about all of this including the confusion around the nomenclature various seasons and how he wants to clean up to. Here's Tim blanks with Michael Kors inside fashioned. Hello everyone and welcome to the live today with told me to micro-costs from New York. Hello Michael Hello. Bear Ray to cedar great to see you and we are doing this instead of actually seeing each other in September. Yes. That's that's that's the God's honest truth. Unfortunately, what are you planning to do in September when we would have been seeing each other? Well I have to tell you long before. The pandemic. I really kept thinking to myself. I'm screeching in next year to my fortieth anniversary. So it. It has been time me to sort of reassess think about things and I and I just after forty years Tim I've seen that I really think the system has certainly been broken. We can't always just do things the way we've done them in the past. I fake. You, know everyone I think realizes that the whole systems mixed up doesn't make sense. So I certainly have my wheels turning about that prior to the band. And then of course, being in lockdown, you really start to analyze and I go back as someone who has been doing this for so long and once in a while back to the future is a good thing. And you know for many decades the New York collections were after the Paris collections ended. In fact, they were a week after Paris ended. And I think we never whenever inundated the consumer with too much information just as in September. Here, in the states, we have Labor Day, and it's you know the world opens up again hopefully, right? At why are we confusing the consumer? And the press with a new season when they haven't even absorbed the one that has just arrived in the shots. Adjusted it makes sense to me. And you know more than ever of course where people are they're not planning months and months ahead. You know we really are living in a time where fashion is very much always has been though it's about the emotion that you're in. So. Are you starting to land your wardrobe in May I? Don't think so I don't know who you are. You don't have a life. So I thought to myself. Well, we used to do this after Paris it allowed or journalists and retailers. And consumer to have a breath. And then. In October, it really became the perfect moment. To show a new collection without cutting off the previous collection that had just arrived shots. So colonial fashioned but back to the future I wave the flag for September being a key month or fashioned information whether it's or digital. So the consumer sees everything and we will be. Doing sort of a two sided approach this season on a week after Paris will give everyone arrest for those who are still traveling. On but also even just your rest your head, you know digest what you've just seen I. think that's important. And we will be a you've never actually been for one of my collections in Orem here in A. Well, I call meals, school I actually very much. Enjoy working with journalists showing the clothes it a very intimate setting. Sort of you know a very salon sort of like me talking about the collection. I always thought him rather than having eight hundred people in the audience by dream would be to have this sort of one on one or its harbour station with journalists. This year I we now have zoom. So this year we will I be a presenting. In New York whether it's in person with intimate groups of journalists or by Zoom, we will be reviewing what you will then see released the next day in a digital format. So it's kind of a, it's the best of both you get Michael up close the close up close and then you get the digital. Lot I think about the first time the first time I met you which was eighty, four, eighty, five right when you just. You just launch. You just done eighty four. You just said you'll show I was might verse Ashen Show. Yeah and and you were the king of Trunk Sharon is as you take on board this whole. Instead of the world coming to you, you went to the world. So you would traveling around meeting people and really bonding with the women who wanted to way of close. That seems to me that seems like it was one of the keys to your success at the beginning I. How do you imagine yourself doing matt now I mean it's all very well chatting to journalists in your shower midstream. That's let's reunites and everything but also believe that people want to connect with. The woman you're GonNa the women and a man who had. A. Well Tammy here's what's interesting. I I have to say, I don't know here. We are this many years in and the connection to the customer for me I think has been key to my success. On adkins and I've always believed That when you go out, you know designers if you walk yourself in your studio and you're surrounded by your staff and everyone's telling you how amazing you are and isn't everything fabulous and you're only talking to journalists who get a discount. Or borrow something to wear to get their picture taken in front of a fashion show I think you quickly lose a sense of reality of who you're dressing. So I have never stopped doing personal appearances. At a lot of people are sort of shocked. You know right before we went into lockdown after the New York show I did too personal again is here in the states in Florida. Now. Since we've been in lockdown, I kept thinking how do we keep these relationships Albanian going? Loss how do we have this sort of banter back and forth with the consumer? And a certainly social media. We have never had a situation where in the past I became. You know it was just myself and my husband locked in the house. He's the cameraman there's no script. There's no make up their satellites and I am letting people know what's on my mind? Quite honestly they let me know what's on there. In addition though what's incredible and I am not check the human on the planet that's for sure. We had done nine. Trunk show slash personal appearances sids locked at. Add. Tim. How incredible that we have see clients from Switzerland, to Southern California from Montreal to London from Milan to Chicago. and. I have to said being able to. Show, the collection talk about the collection and see our clients quite honestly frilled to actually engage and I have to tell you a lot of people are happy to get out of their damn sweatsuit I mean a lot of our customers when I get on these zooms with them, they are dressed and they're excited to be dressed and excited to figure out. What does fashion mean during this craziness? Yeah. Have we get. Dressed. They dress presuming with you. Absolutely, like drools and the whole. Feeling? I keep joking I had one woman who had odd. Crystal embroidered jacket from us and I sent her I said, are you wearing sweatpants alot? WanNa laughed and said, we don't even need to wear bottoms before. That you were bikini bottom at a really cool Jack blauser sweater and I said I suppose, aren't we navigating this? We're all navigating this together. You know it's funny. I was just talking to a group of women every talking about what is evening me now you know i. There's you're not parading on a red carpet with the train a Gal. Like. So what does that mean and I said to this client? I said, you know I said I'd never going to tell you that I am Sybil zoot Sayer I said, but when we showed the fall collection. There were no Stilettos we showed all the evening clothes with boots and flat shoes. We had a lot of cozy things that I think are sort of security blanket. So I sent her I said when you get dressed at night now I said you're probably at most going to see what another couple. Is going to be healed your husband at one other couple. So you you WANNA feel special. You know I've gone to birthday parties on Sube and the winner dressed, but they're not dressed in a gale away. So. Can you wear boots with it? Can you throw a Cardigan Oliver it at this woman said today she said, wow, she said I could actually get dressed at night and not be crippled I said exactly. So that's at they're looking for the answers they certainly are. But have you heard about these will obviously dinner parties happening. I'm I've heard about a few parties where where people address really dress really rests even couture with all the jewels jewelry comes down and it seems to me like we say back to the future I wanna say it's Ford to the pause that you know fashion used to be a very discreet. It used to be. A A woman's relationship with a dressmaker and it wasn't about social media and it wasn't about big. And will this other stuff people actually dress for themselves for their? Quite tight little media. And I can almost imagine that that I have a sense that this is what's going on around me. I don't have I. AM actually seen it myself hotly. feeling that I did hear A. Friend of mine told me about a party to in upstate new. York. On a terrorist agenda Posse and he was stagich. It was like. Sort of what do they call it? Not Friend Sandy. Of all the this sort of glorious vision of. Sailed in. A purely private pleasure you know and there was nothing. It wasn't a shower or anything it was just for the second. In that's the thing. I. We've had the situation before this that I tried to slain. especially to younger clients, younger friends on people who work for me who are in their early twenty S. That I'll say to them, you don't have to. Think that when you wear something once and it's been posted on instagram beds finished, you must stop this it has to stop. Because the real reality. Of course, when I get back to myself at twenty one or twenty, two, I didn't have a penny. What are would buy one extensive jacket I remember by my first Armani Jacket and it was just it was literally two months reds but I thought I'm going to wear this thing until it's shredded. At I think we're starting to see people realizing that and when we think about the classic socialites, we think about nine Kettner and we think about you know Pat Buckley Jesse Rainer Meka Ertegun border the same Madam Greg Down for forty years. What she wore it because she loved it it heard joy. That's what's going to happen. This isn't a back everyone else's reaction. This is about what brings you, Youtube. It's also sort of. A reassertion of value, a sense of value. Actually set of preciousness that. This is this is a something I've been thinking about. That could come out of the situation with going through is the notion of preciousness. Is kind of. Becomes more significant again that that the things that have valued for you. Value Lawsuit. Not, could tourism a funny way the most sustainable kind of dress and there is literally you handed onto your your children they handed on you know that that that granny's Chanel dress is drifting around somewhere in one of the Sami tree. I it's one or the Into sense of appreciation I think we all I have to be the first person to admit this. I am normally running like the energizer bunny you know and I just I need a lot of stimulus. So I'm always traveling I'm one of those people who's reading watching a movie and like an telling the cat noel feed you later all at what's And I think we all have been force. Against Our will. To actually late. Down, consider. At appreciate. I mean people in our lives people around the world humanity the earth of flower blooming. At being able to buy a chocolate bar. Looking in our closets and realizing what we all that makes us feel great sitting in our house and say, wow, I remember when I bought that I love that the the people of kept US healthy I think that in the midst of all of this. Appreciation for so many things is is the best thing that I've gotten out of it. At when I see even to come to work finally. Oh my gosh I was literally doing the Jig I couldn't be more excited. Than to walk into the office. So at appreciate beautiful quality beautiful theaters. You know I'm taking about cutting forty years tim when I started, I didn't have a penny I used to sell all my samples to make money. So I have terrible archives from the beginning. So I'm on the hunt for all of those early Michael, worth pieces ad, I asked one in La who's a great vintage dealer Could. You find me more my accords from the early eighties. And she said, no, I have every once mistakes. She said. Their. Mistakes she said your close they hold onto the. She said, you know she said I don't really get much from you from that era because women really they war and they kept it. But also, they wore I. Remember you know the OSCE clock sufficient at the Vienna and it looked kind of sad to me. And it was because always closed had been. Worn and loved and cherished until they were threadbare. Nobody ever imagine that would end up in a museum collection, but it was it was a one in one way. It was a wonderful valediction. In another way it was quite number you wanted to see the glory of he clocked, but the glory of Ossie Clark was in the clouds that set list APP not set the stage for museum. So imagine. Women had the same relationship with your clothes from from the beginning lesson wires is it if you if you went into your closet, you looked at all of your shoes and boots. While if Alana's shoe that she picks it up in the soul is perfectly clean. She. One. If at all but if pair of boots that the leather has worn in and they become something that's more personal. That's that's in a weird way, i. think that's what of by. Crime things to do as a designer trying to figure out what it is. That's going to be that thing that you gravitated towards I mean I more than ever. That's where my head is. But but do do don't you think you've done that donkey? Think you've isolated those those that kind of casual glamour that that that really was the essence of you know. American. It's American. It's very. More than ever though Tim, I have to tell you for a designer. For for me, we're on used to traveling going on sittings going to Italy, constantly, working well, being locked in your house. And looking at the same sketches it's over and over at over. At first, you think you're going mad but now I realize has quite frankly we've just started to get things in from our Italian factories have partners and being able to spend that much time a bar. Honestly. I think they're the best pieces we've ever made. Because there was that much thought and attention and time what into. You know if it come to life after eight, hundred zoo galls is grown. Now do you think when you look at when you when you do this when you feel like this, you think there was ever anything that you would doing wrong. There was ever anything you'd start or do wrong and this has been the most brutal reality chair an correct in your course. But when you look back, you think is thinking. Maybe I was just a little off track day. Things have really hit me. A number one, this insatiable appetite for what's new what's new? What's new? What's new? New is wonderful when there is something compelling and logical for the person. WHO's wearing it and they live their life new for nearness say or because of the local on instagram. Forget it slap your hand i. mean that's just me as a designer might clients. So that has definitely been something that's shifted and then I think the other thing Tim we are going forward. We are going down to two seasons a year for Michael Kors, collection? We will stagger the deliveries. Certainly. Between the collection and whatever was wrong with calling it sprang summer either actual seasons fall winter. What is pretty fall? There is no such thing as brief all. Resort or cruise. The richest person in the world does not go on a three-month cruise. So I, think the storytelling. Perhaps got to To, overrun, you know the the were content. You know I think the word content has disease the fashion industry. I WANNA. See an image that lasts for more than a seconds. I want words that actually resonate I want beautiful quality that lasts and when you're constantly screaming for content content content. Listen I. Think I think I think you're overloaded. That stats thing I think it's a bridge, but you can balance content and residents. If you can create a convincing story around what you do that story isn't off among and it's a story that. That law said enjoys that everything you do attaches itself to the story embellishes it. All, I think about all the shows I went I soar. View was were you always brought in? Some unimpeachable American icon withdrew was Katherine Hepburn or John Kennedy Jr.. they'd be somebody in that that. That wasn't you know wasn't a sort of little instagram slash weighed everything and. If you got caught up in that whole merry go round of pre and post and this and that and. Then, actually what you've done is just Regained kind of your, your native equilibrium you know. Back to season. Thank Lowly Jim I. Think I think that it's it's also just being honest. It's just you know honesty then rather than just creating a collection that really. There's no need for it. I mean my Gosh we shit a Crete fall collection just as the weather in the world is at its warmest on. It. So so I think it's just being genuine and honest and authentic. But was has been any moment during this this slop down during this layer some. Where you celts. I could walk away I could actually go and live a different loss. I could live a life that I've always dreamed of living. You talk about Capri all the time thinking. Never been a moment where you just wanted to go to an island and just. Call it quick my. Has brought up Capri June I did this morning on my way into the office booked a trip to Capri gone. So we can't go. Cap. Break. Now I actually pulled up video. That I shot lamps and I are on a small boat going through and under the and I it's just this magic quiet wonderful moment and I got here I am in New York City it could be grittier or or more surreal right now quite frankly on ad I'm looking at this image from Capri and I sent it out to a whole group of friends and I said we dreamed tablet. But I have to tell you. I. I don't say that the thought of just oh I'm done with this. I am so energize still which is amazing to me. I have to be honest that forty years in. I made yesterday I got new shoes handbags. And I have been working on them and looking at the sketches the materials for four and a half months. You would've thought it was Christmas always just so excited and I and I still believe in the joy of it on now granted right now. Missing being able to shift my eye. and Get out. And travel the world. Absolutely I mean to go to the theater either I mean you know we've been watching theater on on on television Imelda Staunton in a Gypsy on Amazon thank God you know Hamilton. Thank goodness. I. Saw both of them live it's certainly not possessing dead. But we need to divide that you know that joy and and also see something out of our own parameters you know I always the dud so it worked. So I'd seen New York during this tim in a way that I never have in the past. And, some of it has been wonderful. You know normally in the spring in New York I'm never home. I can't remember signor blue. So taking a walk in the neighborhood at seeing a trade bloom. In the midst of this. Automatic. Pandemic. They, you think to yourself. Wow. There's a plus of being here. I got to experience the. Add to see the public come together globally adhered me your. After watching the horrific murder of George Floyd. Everyone. Say No more this is this is done. It reminded me quite frankly when I was a child. Ad For the first time, the Vietnam War was the first war that was in your living room. It was televised. We saw as as Americans we saw a little girl may palms. Everyone said no more. It's GONNA end. So. So The difficulties have forced us all to slow up. But I think there's GonNa be a wonderful rebirth I. don't want to predict when I'm not a scientist. But I know that the human spirit is actually alive and engaged I know I know my oh, you know on. So so if I feel that way, a lot of people feel that. It's extraordinary. I mean we were talking before about historically a thousand years. They'll be talking about the year two thousand because of this extraordinary confluence pandemic, which kind of level the plane seal, every George Floyd's murder, which spot this outrage, which which in in a funny way it's it's the pandemic. Lack the slight. That that the George Floyd murder, the resulting black lives matter movement which went at, which has gone all over the world and three way in the world. gave it. The form gave gave us sort of gave us sort of structure to the blank slate in a way where All these hundreds of years of injustice suddenly crystallize and. And everyone was was outraged out was justifiably outraged and the outrage spread into all the other areas around the world where injustice as being on address for so long but it's been curious watching how our industry. Deals with this and. I'm just wondering. How you feel fashioned sits into this landscape that has been so radically wilted in the last six months I think the the without sounding like Pollyanna. The simple truth is I believe that fashion people. Many fashion people. We read we drabs of this fashion world many of us. And I think that. To. Be Able to be successful and make a living doing what you dreamt dogs. And and you know what I started my business. I I had no experience. I had no money. I have my dream and I went out there and I did it and since the beginning though I've always had the sense that I'm so fortunate. That I knew my dream. I was able to figure it out and I could pursue it at I can stick to it and I ate the industry has to be full of people who feel very fortunate. Why frankly? About the fact that they were to. Find something that they wanted to do in life that that made them feel. Whole and energize so more than ever the fashion industry has to give back. You must get back. You know when I think about for me, it's progressed in my career. And you know whether it was back in the eighties when I started working with God's love we deliver thinking about the World Food Program. You know hunger around the world. Now, more than ever we've delivered ninety million meals thinking about the injustices of our legal system. So. Donating working with the N. double ACP legal defense spots. Thinking about young designers who could barely turn their lights on and thinking about what we can see what good we to do and donating common thread any of us who are successful. You know it is so imperative it it's all dependent obviously, not everyone can give the same amount of money. Sometimes I mean I have people during the lockdown were actually going in and they were. They were on the front lines at God's love we deliver because quite frankly they couldn't get any volunteers. So it's not just the money it's just to to give back is I think the greatest gift in the world we have to make sure that everyone in the world knows that if anything is convinced us that we're all attached, it is certainly the pandemic has done that and the black lives matter movement has done. We're all in this. Now you feel. You've you. Went through the ice crisis, you went through nine eleven of financial crisis two thousand. Eleven. Of Chapter, Eleven. Yes. This feels. So huge. This feels like it's coming at you from all angles. It's all so so global. How do you? What have you found yourself to meet this challenge this particular challenge which which does seem. Quite insurmountable some levels while Tim if you if you really think you know if I started in nineteen eighty one. That I started working in New York in the late Seventies. where I mean the city was bankrupt. The, the the homelessness was horrific. Drugs on the street the crack epidemic. Then we went into the living there then. Yeah. Then we went into the AIDS pandemic where everyone I knew was getting sick and dying. The whole industry was crushed then like you said, all of the financial. Three financial collapses in my lifetime loss being able to to to to rationally think that I got to watch played from my terrace. Go into the world trade. Center. And and and each time. I can only say as a New Yorker. I think New Yorkers are very greedy and resilient. I just do and we somehow we sort of say okay forward motion what are we gonna? Do to make sure that we do everything in our power that we don't walk backwards. As so I have been and right now it's hard to make plans to him because of course, we don't even know. Are we going to travel wetter we traveling, when can we travel? How do we see people? How do we connect? So we can't really make those finite plans, but we could know that we have to be smart and measured at always think about going forward. I think you can't look over your shoulder I think you have to think about what's next but you have to be smart intelligent and right now we have slowed up and I think slowing up is important. I think it's human. Perhaps, we don't WANNA slow up to the extent that we all have been forced to. But that's how I'm dealing with this on and you know again, don't call me Pollyanna please but I think it's the only way for us to to move forward and go through this. I'm. So if that means, I'm at work with four people on it work with four people. You know I think that's that's brilliant I'm happy. On ad and we will come through it I. Know He will. This though you're right it's never been this before because this is a confluence of everything all at once locally. You know the funny thing is can think about this. That's also because we have more information at our fingertips. All of these things have happened in the past. So many of them were global were as connected and now connected. Do you feel that you feel coming no political you've always been pretty political. You voice had this sort of passion, but you feel your passion becoming more of a Seri- Os. item, understand that we I don't know if it's political. I've always been incredibly compassionate at very epithets. At if I don't see empathy I get angry. And I think that at the day also as a designer. When I, when I talked to students that I work with at taper instance of New York. I only saved the guys taxable empathy on your head. You will not be successful unless you can put yourself in someone else's shoes. So. Am I more defiantly at the fetig than ever before yes. I have everything from the person who is in the grocery store to my clients to someone in a country who I've never met. We're in this together. I don't know it. Did you know? Am I am I more political? Listen I've always been I think that I'm full of passion. And I think we have to be passionate. I don't understand how people can look at the World Ed remained blase. How can you? You know at at if if you think about the future. I mean, don't you WANNA see future generations living in a place where we moved forward not gone backwards. Forward motion that's bastard should be allies. I wonder what it does to your sense of responsibility though is successful as a successful man, a successful designer. How You've you've manifested that sense of responsibility in so many ways but now. Biz Such an urgency I feel. I I saw the footage from Second Avenue yesterday was the unmarked vans dragging people bicycles. Unimaginable. Technology the EPA side of the Atlantic. It is breathtaking. Watch him on. You know it's it's when I what? My Gosh, it was about a year and a half ago. I. Went to the Jewish Museum here in New York and. They were just opening the Auschwitz exhibit. And I had one of the curator's. was really kind and said, would you like to come in? And I would love to. Adly. Started walking through and she started slanted that her father. Was a survivor of the camps. And how it resonated with her. And I said to her I said you know how? Even when I was a child. there. But there was this sort of it was unspoken. no-one really discussed it. No one talked about what happened. you know during during world, War Two and and all the camps, and then I said, drywall, I have a friend who's an aide survivor. He has had AIDS since nineteen, eighty five. Is Now lost his eyesight. Totally. At He is the Child of two concentration jab survivors. And she said, wow, she's that's unbelievable and I said, you know what? He gives me great. Hope. That his parents survived the cabs. A raised a family they came to America. A they found a forward motion in their lives and that he has been ill for all these years. You know when I found out how he lost his sight, he was at a cocktail party at. BERGDORF Goodman. And yet he kept going he keeps go. So I when I see things like watching people yanked off the street into a van on. Second Avenue. We can't allow this to happen. This just it's it's it's it's it's it. It goes against the very nature of humanity I. Think at the end of the day, it won't happen I think it's a blimp. I think that there's too much kindness in human beings and too much. Add the ultimately for that to become something that just runs rampant. But yes. Do I see it and I'm shocked I can't I can't believe that this is my city. This is in New York City. That this can happen. And you know. The Woods never again, which had been. which have been spoken so passionately for so many years. To see that never again actually. That the human memory is is is such a frustrating thing. Bet never again, we're looking at seeds being planted now that the absolute. Beginning of of things we've seen. It out we have not now. I'm curious about how you would say we but how you feel. How you feel that is hostile. How what? What, what, what do we need to be durant. Say we Number one I think everyone. Everyone on the planet. In whatever way they can? I up yet dad make sure your voice is heard. You know the notion in this country people not voting is shocking. It's just shock. I mean when I hear people who are twenty years old and they slow now I've never voted I'm not sure affirmative vote does it really matter? Yes, it matters. It matters we must vote. You have to have your voice heard. That spanked Patient in here you know you have to have their voice heard you can also realistically, you'd think about the global community. and. You just think about kindness and you think about the ad whether you can only afford I don't know. To skip a coffee in the morning, you know I mean it's what is it five euros for coffee? So skip the coffee and take the five euros. And give it back. Give it back to the community I think that everyone can be involved and we also have to remind people. You know it is true. One of the most eloquent phrases that we I grew up with was never again. Well. Never again needs to be just tattooed just for so many so many situations that were dealing with. You know. Just. It's it's crazy. It's an epidemic of it and we just have to remember we are all. So connected I mean how grateful mind for my House Well I'm very, very fortunate that I have. Rate Health. Coverage. But someone else might not. What can we do to make sure that that's not the case And also you know just go back to fashion. Somehow when the world is complicated to him, we all as fast should people we could start to pick up I'd have no is what we do. Important. You know is this really worked? Will Somehow I believe number one we won't even talk about all of the people or connected who design and work and you factor and at bring all this to live. But when I see a woman try on three days and. Somehow she puts one of them on and her posture changes. She's got a different spirit. She's become her best self. So is that important yet you bet that's the boards because right now do we need to be our best sells absolutely more than ever So I think bats. That's the thing when when we do get dejected as fashion folk to say Oh, my God, the world's in such a storm. And I'm sitting here worrying about you know a beautiful boot. Or an amazing shoulder bag or the right car to get. Well guess what? If. This is something not only for the economic point of view. But this is something that lets people be the best selves. Hey, that's great. That's amazing. So we're all connected that way. so that's fashion as remedy away isn't it? Actor fashion as answer that I realized by the way during lockdown that I was doing. So many of these damn calls and I have a closet full of black clothes. But. Then why there's certain black clothes than I can't grabbing or On all of my zero calls. Why I mean I have fit in black hoodies. But I wore the same too because those judo when I saw how they locked onscreen screen. They felt great and they looked good and I said you know what? And what more of those I don't want this thirteen better. I wanted to great wants what about camel? Gosh. Well I have read that turning to connor in lockdown you not. down. All, I can tell you is whatever the people said. They don't believe me that I was a trendy dresser when I was young at once. You know what I guess. It's just for me personally I just the idea that I have to think about what I'm putting on. It just I can't I just can't do it. 'cause I'm sitting there like so I don't know. Locked into thinking about what everyone else is going to fall in love with I just WanNa be able to grab and go for myself. Out and it's you know this season as I said before I am not a good gardener and I'm a lousy cook. And these are both things that I had to sort of. I don't know. Brush. My stills a bit since I had a terrorist that bloomed unsettling was die there. I was hand watering it with a measuring. Cup actually went out and bought a fabulous water can which was a big purchase and exciting on and the pleasure of seeing the color in that garden. Absolute Joy. Or maybe baking a Pie I. Truly. For me baking a pie was but find a pie. Did you bake I made blueberry. Pie. All anonymous. It came out. Well, there was only one problem. I know until you should put a pan underneath it so it bubbled all over the Ada Horrific. But it tasted. Now Michael A. What is what is the role of culture will after after we come through this I have been talking. You. Know I think I. I was a Punk rocker. I Love I love music and punk was such a reaction to. Full creed occur full everything that was going on. In the world around us a little. How do you think you're such a lover of theatre in such lover of? You've. been. So you always promoted. People so so So dedicate with such dedication. What comes next for theater. For. Actors actresses, musicians what what you see in the future of them well, it's it's I have to tell you. You know I always the live performers. Are Sides their their God given talent to express them like athletes. You know you they they. They have their adrenaline gets going. They're nervous. They get out there and the explosion of talent at right now I think it's sad that you have locally. Incredibly talented performers who get such a rush out of the interaction with a live audience and they've got a they've got to work out like an athlete would. I think that. So many of them are you know trying to communicate. With people who love what they do. By Zoom it's like you know I was laughing. Tiffany. Haddish is one of my favorite human beings on the planet. At funnier no, it's water add. We texted each other. At that I said, what are you doing and she said watch this that I just posted and she said on the video she said, if you're a comedian, you have to have live laughter and I realize something's going wrong I'm doing standup routines to Mike Garda. Thank you know I think live performance for me. I mean I love movies I do I and I actually want to see them in a movie theater. Now, you don't want to see it at home, but it's not the same I love the communal. I think we're going to have an incredible Renaissance Jim. When we are able to gather. For Live theatre for movies together for concerts of I think that the world's going to be so overjoyed. To be able to experience that you know right before lockdown. I went to where very involved with a theater group here in new. York. A not for profit called the roundabout and they have their annual gala and we've been involved with them for a long time and we went to the gala and at my table I had all of my favorite women from Broadway. You. Know Odd Donald J Perkowski Sutton foster. In a credible women and I thought to myself my God this is Valhalla. This is Nevada for me and then we went into lockdown. AD and I didn't touch with all of them to see how they're doing and how their families are doing and they are all so anxious to get out there. Get back on stage. So I think it's going to be a wonderful renaissance. We don't know when it'll be it certainly won't be the same way and then what happened to all of us as human beings. All of those performances are going to reflect that we know. I what, what, what, what you think people will be like I i. mean we talk about time that you talked about kindness I mean weaponized kindness is an interesting notion. It's kind of a bit contradictory but. I'd be curious to see how that manifests itself but. How will we be different it's? We conquer back. We know too much to be ignorant now is willful. What happens Nex? I think we are going to have to for the first time. Without me sounding like a religious guru. We have to find balanced him. We all are going to have to find balance. We can't suddenly if the world opens up, right. World Opens Up. We somehow eradicate this disease. We all communicate with one another and we all realize we could. We could be better human beings we can think more. More open-minded. Well, let's not pedal backwards and suddenly start dancing on tables and pretend that it's the great gap speaks Woo Woo. I think we have to find a way to be conscious always of. Slowing down considering laudable will but at the same time having some sense of celebration because when we get out of this, it will be a celebration. For every. I can't wait to see what you do with it in close that's going to be so interesting are you even thinking? Who Yet? Could possibly. That's the other thing of course for fashion people. You know we don't. We're not able to like you know designed something on Monday and ethically habit in the shops lie Wednesday. So you know to be as sort of by crystal ball. Where the world is so Inflamed and so golic until every day it's a tough thing. So right now for made designing, it's about constancy. I think that's really what what's that's that's where I'm going 'cause by Gosh I craving it. We all are. So, close could console will they could. They could excite. I actually think they should be both. I I don't know why it should be one or the other. Why should fashion do both for you? I never understood this whole idea of you know you gave one thing up for the other. I don't understand the would you especially also when you think about fashion? I've always. We did cores might pours line in Nineteen. Ninety. I remember at the time the reason I did it. I happen to be at a department store when my Michael Kors collection close went on sale and I saw these great looking women had a rushing to the sale rack and I thought you know what? There's a bigger audience out there and they're sophisticated they're smart. They just don't have the same bank account. So why aren't you? Always? Thinking about whether it's someone spending a hundred dollars. Or someone standing a thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars why would you give up any in whether you buy? That's ridiculous like, Oh, well, I feel really sexy ended, but I can't booze. It's really comfortable but you know I really don't like how I photograph in it. I feel powerful but I can only wear twice a year. All of that's ridiculous. So I say don't give up anything and and maybe that's also part of the reason why slowing down is going to help. For everyone. Will thank you very much Michael. My pleasure it's good to see you and God knows when it will be in the flesh but. I then will both have very long air. You've got do something about yours. You can't keep putting. You've got to let it grow. This is only I don't have this anymore. That's the problem. brought. Excellent. Thank thank you Mike. And if you've enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe give us a rating and you might be interested in joining the business fashions global membership community B. O. F. Professional. Are members receive exclusive deep dive analysis, regular email briefings as well as unlimited access to our archive of over ten thousand articles. Our new IPHONE APP learning materials from education.

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Maria Grazia Chiuri on Her Female Perspective at Dior | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

30:41 min | 1 year ago

Maria Grazia Chiuri on Her Female Perspective at Dior | Inside Fashion

"Uh-huh. I remember when everybody was so shocking that French house could be cool Italian designer, what do you think the essence of Christian Dior is? I don't think that he was only equity. It was also strategic miss man, given that you're the first woman who's ever designed to Khorasan your you conscious of adding something to the vocabulary in a more sort of political directed way, perhaps think that everything is political is not possible to be political. Mr. D R tool spoke about like the women was important for him. I no forget the women in another way. Hi, this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion. Today. We have a very special episode of the podcast back in two thousand sixteen Maria Grazia Curie became the first ever female, creative director of Dior, but before Maria Grazia, there was a whole host of male designers starting with the founder himself, Christian Dior. Well this week in London. There's a brand new exhibition opening at the Victoria and Albert museum that explores the history of to your Maria Grazia sat down with Tim blanks to talk about being the first female, creative director of to your her longstanding relationship with the brand and the history and future of Dior with the great heritage of all the designers that came before. So here's Tim blanks and Maria Grazia Curie inside fashion. Rian Roxie with just walked around the exhibition Christian you'll design of dreams. How do you feel when you walk through all those spaces fill the Lula's amazing things. And then you come to the end you are. That's impressed me a lot because. Many in any case is so important place that I never made to be with my job in a position so important in so important museum. But this time I really love enjoy to see another point of view about the Arista story slow this. This is the show got was on in Paris. But this is the London edition of that show. How is it different? The different is about the creator about the different point of view and also the different area date because as that. What I really think is important that in this exhibition. You see the Breton culture that looked your and the relationship with you, Mr. your and Britain culture is very very important. But I think because in any case also for me also for many designer the British call culture was referencing in fashion. I remember my first time that I moved to London was so attract about Landon, British culture. So I'm very happy surprise at this time to see the two. So when we still dealer would start in fashion, he had the same cruise ity the same attractive for this culture. Now, you said that you were surprised to find out that he used a lot of British in production. Absolutely. That's was. That's surprised me a lot because but at the same time if you reflect about these three the after the second world inm Inman, the reason was very strong in production industrial was very strong. So is was. Important for Mr. the are to come here to find new suplies. And they went inside the factory to see the shoes. But also, the they need were and immaterial any cases. I mean role is so present in is work in your in his line. What else surprised you when you when you first saw the show when you look when you walked around the look, the work of all these designers. What are the things stood out for you that sometime nobody reflect lot like fashion can speak about time. If you if you see an exhibition like that, they should probably you look on dress the shape the craft machine. But if you reflect just a little bit more use you reflect about easterly relationship than the historical moment and the relationship between fashion, and they started all moment, you think each. Of those voices that we see in the show from your tomorrow if Sarah by John Franko for Ray, John Galliano and wrap Simmons. And then you do you think each voice speaks of its time. Then in a way that that's why that's why you get the sort of historic fail. Absolutely. I absolutely. Think that you you feel like we like the story or moment was important in like in the express in their job this story on moment. And they sometimes relate for the outfit and for the dress is evident like the women change you because the position of women was different in different moment. What you see is the biggest change. I mean, we were looking at the shoes the defeat. Be a minister. Unbelievable defeat was various more and those are the sides. But we are not to forget that. There was no food. So the the women was no skin because they would like to be skied were probably because there was nine of food. So it's completely another point of view to reflect about that. And is so I mean enter when you arrive to Matt won the another moment, we this started the first pants before they are no pants with the sun around. And also is Mr. the other no pants in the collection. So something revolutionary so you can see modern ac- we have to point out that the reason why the women were so thin and those early was because of rationing men and women and much much smaller this, but it's the funny thing when you go to exhibitions and see just how tiny proportions now you can find a motor with that sites. No, I've run glad I'm very happy. That'd be because that's good be really dangerous. So I'm happy that is impossible to find modal with this kind this kind of sides. Now, remember when we were talking about the show once you sit me that one of the things that surprise you was the importance of my Bowen to the history of the house that he really comes across in the show as as a very important designer. And that is one of the interesting things about exhibitions. Like, this say change the way you think about the past were there other surprises for you. When when you look at the, oh, I think that each designer that made the they made of your Indicas efficient. You understand more? You understand more why they work at in this way because. Honestly, when you see a Galeano that I like a lot. Because of course, I remember so well Galeano moment was specific moment in fashion where everything was more. Graphic more. Also drama in some way. It was a very specific formenting fish is an is a spreads. So well, it was the guys that look franchise with a high of British guys. So I think I really love to see this kind of relationship that's helped me to understand more about your. But also more about Galliano more about mart one and your relationship. But also about thirty two that any member very well because I'm Italian. I remember when everybody was so shocking that they house French house could be cool. Italian designer because it was a moment in fashion was very competition between talion French. So I like to see more that dresser. Like duress express. This kind of moment is do feel a particular affinity with anyone with any one of them. When you're looking at them. Do you feel that you know, I feel closest to give him that you'll the first woman who who's ever designed to Christian Neo which is remarkable in itself. And you're looking at the work of very different men over the last over the last what is it semi semi. Or so years. Do you feel a particular closeness to any one of those guys? Probably is because I come from Rome. All the time this and the is evident in my life that you are to to look your past than to leave your path with lightness and at the same time, you know, very well your past does your passes around you. I think that is very important from and so I am no problem to look at the past because I really think is important on the stand. But and that's an unimpressed me because I think the pastor. Is important that you want to move in the future. You have to understand what's happened before. Whether reteach counts. All eyes on way. Sign than interested me is the relationship between the designer and the brand that's who was the real thing that interests me. And the sign that they put in Europe and. Because hand I think assume portent brand is famous and everybody remember Romney word now only because Mr. Dior made, of course, like a phone like founder, the the first sign like about jacket and those important other silhouette the battles because the other design that K from after him put other side. And now the reason a common ground these urine. That you had to remember. So I look all the time. So you feel close to all of them. Yes. Absolutely. But different bath close at the same time. And they look them with my point of view, nothing in fashion is new we are to remember that is only to see the same thing with different point of view with different high. We were talking about this in the show. How how it is different from the show in Paris in how this feels this talking about the point of view, obviously, there's a different curator's point of view. But what what do you think the essence of Christian Dior is? I mean, there's modernity, but this the romance we have, you know, these themes in the show the travel and and the garden, and and what did they what is the essence for you? The thing that you respond to that. He was in Gatley worldwide brand that was unbelievable. Because if you think that the first show, he made a cure the fillet, but at the same time alleged is the first performer, miss New York, that's a strategic because perform is something that you can move around the world more easy that could you dress? Because at the time issue unto. Couture dress as necessary to have a ten year in the media was based in Paris. So he me something that could be possible immediately. The around the world. So I didn't think that he was only equity it was also strategic business, man. Immediately. He went to the garden was big reference. But this garden is English garden. He has no like reference a French garden, we retaliation garden that completely friends. He because because he the Reverend was is mother that was obsessive with the idea to make English garden in Normandy. That is not so easy. Honestly, I went there. The temperate is just a little ending would like to to have some kind of vegetation that is completely difficult to have their so, and but the father was also an important businessman. So I think the reference is known -ly, Mr. the the mother, but also the father because the father was an industrial and then portent so. Hey has this mix between dream and at the same time business really smart for the time. So all the reference give a picture of this man, really fascinated because he loves heart. About the same time. He wants to open a gallery that is really close with at the business to eat properly immediate around the word. He went to England. Eight would. It was so it was like battle so smart to dress the Princess Margaret because of the most important. We men. Is the most important through answer in this in this kind of time we call these thinking through answer she made the big visibility is. Job. So I think it was very smart and complex, man. So we've got so the essence of DO is sort of dream backed up by really smart business, brain you. And that something that you like that something because sometimes I don't like the stereotype idea that if you dream you are not to release the kings away is not true that is a stereotypical idea. Very romantic that Cam from also this kind of is culture. The, but that's something you've brought to GIO this. This kind of sensitivity to the changes that are happening in the world. I mean, you you well, a feminine spirit and into the house. When you when you when you're dealing with a history like the history of deal, are you conscious of adding something to the vocabulary. You know, that what new as first woman who's designed for the the house, are you conscious of bringing your point of view, which is obviously. Shaped by the fact that that you are who you are. But then adding this other sensitivity to the world outside in a more sort of political directed way perhaps in ever being that I think that everything is political is not possible to be political. But and I don't think that I am giving a new message probably also in that hide give the same message with better with a different voice with different point-of-view. Because also Mr. one Sade not forget the women. But I say no, forget the women in another way. Mr. Dior tool spoke about like the women was important for him. I say the same message with my point of view that is completely different because I'm women too. And have a daughter. I think that holds the message could be the same. But is the different the point of view because he's depend about your culture, your everyday to your background. I think it's interesting that the the so many of the most of the designers for your not been French. Yes. Absolutely. So that's an outsider's point of view on the most traditionally French fashion house. Yeah. That's was incredible. Because for me the initial. That I didn't know. So while the. French culture because one thing is to come to Paris Mika show. One thing is to be in Paris. And to understand more. The culture is another story. I really interested in the that's calcified siemian lot. But there is something in the DNA that is very French because Mr. Dior was French. And so there is something in the house that is is really French and back the you had to see with different point of view day. The. They are completely different from Italian cartoon fashion. Busy talion culture is more about. Craft my sheep. Also, this idea just a little bit more. Artesia new after less. Brand. I say in French culture berries from this idea of the element that are cooperate. And I think he's right because at the hand import around the word people remembered, your now old designer that made the brand your so I think that's very important you want to promote a month in and Brad for time. And I think and they really appraise a to this point of view because also the Sibusiso around the world help to support this idea that is very corporate. And how I heard you feel wouldn't ask you this before when you walk through that walk through those spaces as sedition spaces, and you seem to be almost shy. When you come across you. When we walk into the garden room, and you address is in the very middle of the room breath me. I. Really impressed. I really happy to be to put the little store owner in this big house little. Little break. I think that's to be the approach. But that's impressed me because I never Mitch to put a little break. So that someone recognized that you put the brick in this important, Missouri. Hunting. Unbelievable. Impress me. Because I don't want to think about that. Because I prefer to to move the brand in the future, and they don't want to feel. I don't know. It's difficult to find a word. Because if you if you are too much happy about that is like that is finish. I understand what they mean. And I don't like that I prefer to think of the future. Now, the the moon the present. To give it another prosperity about the life. Well, the very last thing you see when you're leaving the show is address for the Shanghai. The Shanghai resort presentation. And that van dress seems when you've come through so much grandeur that dress at the very end with old Christian family, the signature, duplicated on the dress seems very seems very significant. And I know it means a lot to you that dress because when we went to make their first showing up in China, and we would like to to to work with their offense that come from this country because the first your show miss that they are show he made many reference with other country. In fact, the the dress as a name of a CTO country. And so we said, oh, we want to work with this idea of fan because the pitiful dress in the past though with a composition of different fund that make the shape of the dress. So we tried to work in the same way. But I didn't know that was the final grass in exhibition. Didn't know that was so important location. I didn't know that the fan that we found in the book was part of the battalion. Collection. So when I saw all together. So my. Again, you had it was funny watching you. Because again, you had that. Oh, I can't oh little may. You say, okay. And I like the different win. Impress me. Also, like a crater look at the. My job because sometime this election change is depend about the crater. So something that interests me because the selection is different in each creator as difference way to see my job interest me because given other point of view about my job sometime when you think about yourself, you see you in one way after when the other people. Look at your job and meet another selection. You reflect about the other point of view now. And I think this kind of relationship is very interested me a lot is that like a reality. Check and away when somebody else looks at you were. It's a strain and keep also a different point of view about your job for yourself because you never major that was the other look your job. We this kind of angles. And so what you learn from something like that. That everything you can see in a different way is depend about the person that look the the the point of view really we had to reflect a lot about what we do now fashion lives in another moment when I start working fashion was something very small. Completed another year. Now, we live another moment in fashion that we don't know what is the huger. But then the stood that is completely different. I understood every day that we had to work every day in different way, because they audiences you because everybody look our shopping and different with different point of view. Because these media are the message arrived so fast that sometimes there is not time to reflect that we have a big responsibility for new generation. I think is weird man moan. And because it's exciting, but at the same time and everything is new because I started to work in fashion in a way, very traditional Michael twos. Completely traditional way to make razz. To main matter. We are leaving at completely new moment in fashion is it like that you are to me to start again to study again to learn again. Seven to single looking at the show with you. And you were seeing things you have seen before you were looking at you looking at tanning from the past. There was a Santa Rodriguez. You haven't seen before new fascinated by hours made your car from Mississippi Ordina leg forty you would just talking about the future, but you looking at the past and an inspiring you for the future. But it's also you're saying things you couldn't do anymore within the techniques edges, which is fascinating to me. Is we imagined? Everything's personal now now now because we eat the risk that we lost the the the hat for me. Some kind of crap mission and what we do with catoon your is really maintain this kind of craftmanship. Also that we there around Parys around French to maintain this kind of crap measure because now it's very difficult. If you if you don't have. People that want to teach young people this kind of technique. The risk is that we can lost souls over the last coach, I use some craftmanship of coz, I know that if we don't use the risk is that we lost. Back. I think and they hope that the results are another moment in could you because everybody thinks that could cure is something very close with the past. That is the word that in some ways finished because he screws we designed elite Tarran Deanna of clients. But at the same time, I think there is a new generation that the soap says a with about environment is about timeless piece that I think could you come could become back something that we believe that the only few years ago, very cruise with the pastor could be modern way to work in fashion for the future because we are to reflect if you see exhibition like also you say all the dress Montaigne, very well. But why because you take care it could piece so probably. In the future. We can believe that we have a new generation that probably wants to buy coat, but the Goodyear coat that they want Montaigne for time. Not only for one season was interesting could be the message that we take away from sad. We. We throwaway culture. And when you come into a show that at the magnificence of these things they offer. Yeah. Forever. And so I think. Could be they will Lucien of the time that we can change our point of view, probably. I'm different because I was young about. I remember when you maintain your piece taker because only one cool to one day in pants, but at the same time, I remember very well. Also the moment where you change very fast thinks so we had to see what happened in the future property. We come back to take care our one then in pants and our code. The house. So we had to see what's happening the future because I think the new generation as another point of view was about the the guys that around twenty s another point of view about fashion and about the impact of fashion in their life. And when you think the show since then. I find the very dressed this were they're very fascinated. Because is a way to have some point. That precise point about quality about. Craftsman sheep. Well, I think sometimes they need some real inconsistent point. See you later. She she saved immediately. She so at sunrise and say, I would like to dress it immediately. I can't imagine. I see you in this outfit. Of course. For us is strange because there is also our intimate moment. There is a dress is mall. Dress in your mama. Part. That she uses to for camera with me at the met bowl the first time in his life. So is there is our personal memory. Is known about it begins three. There is also something that is more personal and more intimate. It's. Very much and congratulations. Thank you team. Him.

Christian Dior Paris French house founder and CEO London founder Maria Grazia Curie John Galliano Imran Ahmed Shanghai Rian Roxie Khorasan Maria Grazia Arista Mr. D R Britain Europe Tim blanks director
Special Edition: Sam McKnight on Why Fashion Is the Eternal Optimist

The Business of Fashion Podcast

00:00 sec | 8 months ago

Special Edition: Sam McKnight on Why Fashion Is the Eternal Optimist

"Heidi Gloom and Tim Gunn are back to launch the next global fashion brand in making the cut in his new original series from Amazon twelfth designers from around the world compete for the opportunity to take their brand to the next level. You have facades available every Friday. Watch making the cuts only on prime video adopters for four major campaigns off to the shows and not one happened seems to me that for a few seasons now. There's been a cloud of fashion. Ibm thanks for a while. That is beginning to me to feel repetitive. If we don't have things like extravagant fashion shows the image making machine infection might revert to things like magazine Soleil. It used to be from a really everbright lever of things dragged back to how they were baby will make the world appreciate beauty appreciate how beauties created how it should be treasured. Hi this is Ron Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion. And welcome to the PODCAST. This week editor at large Tim blanks sits down with Sam McKnight to understand how the current situation of the corona virus pandemic is impacting him and creative people throughout the fashion industry. Tim spoke to Sam as part of one of our live events. If you're interested in learning more about these events visit business of fashion dot com slash events in the meantime. Here's Tim blanks and Sam McKnight inside Fashion Sam Nine each other for many years in so many different capacities. And it's very. It's extraordinary that in this extraordinary time. I mean it's appropriately Ordinary in this extraordinary time that we get to talked together. Light of this San Palo Palo Tim how are you? I'm good I'm I'm just the and I feel a but lies The situation the world is just make me nervous but the sun is shining and the gone looks beautiful and I know that you'll Gaden. It's you'll have your place. Yeah it is. I'm very lucky to have that. I I realized. How am I really do that? I'm not stuck in a flat was lots of children and You know I mean I really feel for some people. It must be really really tough but I mean being very selfish. I'm actually I have. I've been alone for eight days. Something not now. But I'm actually I've I've I've taken a leaf out my God bless you live. I have I have slowed down and I feel like I'm fighting. It's you know it's it it will be. I'm not sure really enjoying the not traveling Z. This slowing down process because you know taking the lead the Golden I sat round repeating myself already When you when you are out now when you are involved in called you you have a gives you a different perspective on fakes. Sarah Seasons this season's sometimes device slow too much but this evening is always come. So does the lower house now and one incredible lessons fashion. That that if we slow ourselves to natural rhythm this This would a very different kind of future from the future. We would have imagined three or four months ago where everyone was stuck in. This incredible cycle of just is crazy. Mary go round. Yeah Yeah Yeah And having that garden that you have which is one of the one of west London to be able to step out into that and seal abuse just coming out in a natural sort of you know man had nothing to do with that at all nature. Well not old nature nature. Is NATO jackets this something about having a garden which just seems so like everything you've ever learned in your work you can turn to Marriot's together. Analyze is in the Senate becomes win. You'll long-gone you'll God on will be a monument to the address cocktail. What can I say? Oh Yeah Yeah but getting it getting to the work. When would you In your professional life when I'm covered nineteen I'm interrupted the rhythm of the will. We were actually just coming to the end of Fashion Week and Paris. Because we'd been in Milan in the wake to Paris and I. I think I did one day's work off tonight and that's that's that was it when did you? When did you become aware of this? Insidious thing was set inaugura set. What point during the season become clear that we were about to deal with this complete catastrophe? Well we were quite. We were quite clear. I remember from the beginning of London fashion week because at the beginning of London Freshman I was actually saying I will be revised surprised if Milan and Paris go ahead but they did. They did go ahead. And what were you? What was your feeling about that? Did you think that was kind of like everyone else like everyone else? It's in retrospect disease. the site at the time. You think well okay. They know what they're doing is fine. You know it's it's definitely it's definitely this thing is really big. This thing is happening. China's really getting bigger and bigger and bigger Is this the right thing? And we had to have Let's see trump before we went into the Chanel show than it seemed a little more serious and after that it moved pretty quick tweet. But it's it's it's an odd. It's an odd feeling seems to me that For Few seasons now this cloud over fashion and using how you how'd you I feel? I feel financially economically. The the the industry was Challenged and you kept hearing about businesses not doing well and and It was a little bit of smoke and mirrors of happening on. I think that's always been a condition session that it is an industry that presents an image of confidence and abused and and it has obviously. That's not always the case but it did shield to me in my capacity but it things would just get a little bit twisted in complicated and and and there was a sorted out winning and thing beginning to emerge that these businesses would survive. These businesses wouldn't department stores weren't doing well the sole was doing well. Let's all wasn't during while this designers that design and this is what people love now. It's over about Social Media. Whatever that all the gold closed kind of moving love and then when this happened did feel a little bit you know would it. I think for a long time people felt something's coming. You know with the climate crisis. Do you think people have wanted something to come to? It's just a feeling maybe as a as a general something needs to give Ya. I been for a while. I mean this is my age to IBM state for a while that it's beginning to me to feel repetitive. You know the the shows the the magazines coming every three months which is already dated but as a as a kind of reputation you feel for Waldo that needs a feeling of recalibration somehow will the reset resets. Yes we said the same is I? Keep me quite golden. But it's none of the things die down and then things grow back. So there's always that constant feeling of renewal and I'm very positive about this and feeling this will. I'm going to take away from this. Period is a definite feeling of renewal another thing. That's probably what's going to happen and that that did yeah and that needs to be a bad thing you know i. I think that I think that. What what seventy people was saying is that it was just too much. It will become so excessive And I agree with that that there was a sense of an unsustainable. It's it's interesting to hear us to using the past tense their walls. Yes my weird optimism. I think that's amazing. I think that's really great because that suggests hope in renewable to me. I think we're a long way from that. I think bits of very this. This is quite a adopt your to go through before we actually. I think having does go let the end of that. Is We need that too. I WanNa talk about that In authorized finished set soda. Bad that the Sensiti unsustainability of of fashion the whole all of it. All of the the exploitation of natural resources the the whole image making machine the content generation that this strangely the distracting. This thing that just seemed to be designed to distract people from What we what we needed to be thinking about and fashionable was coming around to that with with discussion of things. Like circularity and localization localization now seems incredibly Relevance fashion industry with everybody's five flung production facilities closed down You just see that we might be reaching a point where people will only be able to work locally. Wiping sank fee. Is that you know it's going to be about Taylor's dressmaker coblets. And you'll village. But that is my very kind of post apocalyptic vision of not saying much as fashionable. Well the the idea of The the optimistic often ass of all of this you know. I just said to you if we don't have things like extravagant. Fashion shows the image image making machine of affection Mike Revert to things like magazines. Soleil used to bait. Now you want so sure about that. I never really a great believer of things going back to how they are. You know why I don't yet I use away back. I should say food in your. I mean the guy's forward this definitely. Br definitely rooting for new ways of looking at things. That's for sure. Well I I feel that I feel that the magazine saying is is really dated. Now it is of course. There's room for it. They maybe not how Halloween h why do you think it stays it? I've been I've been counted. Really can I say I be feeling that lots of things? Just look to say you know that goes. That goes all the way through and I think I'd be really interesting to see how the film world's develops off to this. Because I think fashion films are being trying to be really really interesting for for for a long time. But they haven't quite hit the button. Like I keep thinking you thinking back to the glory years of fail when I began one hundred years ago. Or you're not the turn of the law sent drake underdog years ago and you feel the fashion world. Fashion film were of needs. A meet needs it in awakening. Does that make sense? I in in the way that the fashion illustration world could be revisited in the way that now. I think that just the general idea of the fashion image. I'm you know say all magazines. Look the same as because all magazines focused on the same outfits that were released. Isn't that big sweeping statement. Old Magazines Dunk. Look the same but the media magazines. Is You know it's been the same for many many years. It's it's maybe about some group of young people coming along creates new medium. Which may he may just isn't still image. Well well because I I love you know if you look at the glory days of Hopkins Bizarre with a Frankish signings Italian Vogel Winston Fashion Image. Making pure and it was about gorgeous images almost whatever the the actual piece of clothing was was almost stumm irrelevant to the direction. The photographer pose and the perfect representation of of what people call a fashion dream. I could imagine an inherent make up with an odds. And you know you will potable of that old the oldest things still that still incredibly creative but I could see a Ribas rather than going back. I could see a renaissance of it. Especially if we don't have the more kind of conventional content generated fashion show if that does happen to change. That situation has changed. I could see fashion film Yeah I could I could see. I could see a lot of things running along the same tracks but I do love as really fantastic sessions. Oh Yeah me too. I love a fantastic fashion show. So maybe everything needs to be more distilled than less less less. I Dunno you feel you almost want use it of Anew respirator almost is exclusivity. Such a sort of judge you are these days but there's something about the old order that where that was very That was a very beautiful thing. The couldn't actually have something you know so it was aspirational almost being so democratized. That it's worthless. Does that make sense? Oh my God this is what this is what I find. More moral conversations with with designers geographies whatever that whoever the notion of restoring the ideal preciousness to fashion at. It's not this enormous. I wanted now. I'll have my one teeny aware of Soda. Not that all of that insane. Waste and and an expectation that if you bring that the notion of value and refresh people's memory about what value than it was the words yet what volume means at Saudi crossed Nyu Semaj. Innate value is in jeopardy values creativity that value is something you treasure. It's precious and a piece of clothing body all of that because it's actually something it's all about you know people been talking about the hands human hand any find that and the kind of idea crossed as being reborn that's being that's been happening for. Awad but what Bildt yet. And then you have sunk this which completely over nineteen completely completely spotlights. But I think that the people like you em and all the wonderful makeup people who ever worked with in the work he did in those teams on the contribution that the the notion that that fashion is is a collaborative things. Something that you will shed in those incredible moments when you're traveling around the world with amazing amazing model by. That's still happens to him that they're really incredibly talented. Young hairless Out there at the moment and stylists and yeah I mean I think there's a way of these guys that will see us crude whatever happens off to a wave of even younger on to come but I think what's sad is this of the accession disposability of things that has happened recently. But I think I feel that was conduct coming to an end anyway. Like you said everyone is board that everyone had another and you know slashing thrives on onto an X. box in the past the previous hasn't been quite so disposable as being more of an evolution rather than I soon as you know yesterday's fashion magazines at smart I- i- domino explaining myself very well Lee. Disposability of it is kind of discussing That's kind of what was happening with everything that is eight of everything was the whole notion of the left behind you know. That's what's being subdued again. Populist politics the left behind China having a voice that would that's all about. This is ridiculous in trumpet. Speed that that society moves so fast that eventually it just stands completely still actually what nineteen is done as as stopped everything and maybe maybe it will make the world appreciate special things appreciate handcrafts. Appreciate beauty appreciate how you created how it should be how it should be treasured? You know I mean. I couldn't have said that better but at the same time we know that there are hedge funds making billions of dollars from betting on the of our economy. Rules that to me is pure evil Let human greed is still a sucking the lights in the life out of every I mean. That's a change that I. That's the sort of fundamental change. I would love to see that that somebody who has a trillion dollars doesn't feel compelled to make another trillion dollars at all. Everybody's GonNa die kinds of someone else's children. Douglas trillion dollars could do for the trillion people who have nothing in school. Of course now. It's it's a complete nightmare. Where fashion sits and that is An interesting situation because We what do we rely on fashion for? I've always relied on fashion for inspiration and joy. I mean you know I when I buy fashion in the eighties. I mean buying the goce jacket. We'd bring you joy every time you order it and you'd wear allows you and do people still get that. Do you still get joy from buying something I mean but then you would buy something not not once one-season once or twice as it was prejudiced precious and there weren't very many also you know it was it was last yes exactly. Yeah and that That that is the idea that we're talking about restoring you know bringing back the notion that that something that people have worked on that SORTA bat you know. Create the other. I didn't necessarily look like something else that they torn out of a magazine. From forty years ago it it really was in new way of looking at things and there will that. And that's what's so great about rushing because it can actually show you things in a new way it can give you a new way of looking at something and I think that would be incredibly important in the month years to come that you think that we will need to. I think it's I actually think you. I think it's really it's really. It's going to be a really exciting time. Yes there are going to be dark days and dark spots. I mean you got to always look the lights of life really well Trash you also is. They turn Disney I mean the fashion magazines obey a history has through optimism in joy threw the last box on the newsstand that that sort they've been selling and even if even if you didn't have access but that's what was always so interesting is that even if you didn't have access so what you're looking at. It was so wonderful to look at and I think maybe a little bit of that is loss and That's the challenge to restore. That didn't WANNA ask adding value. How you feel about hairdressing place now as as as as probably the most the best has silenced in the world and the man who is Shimmy blowing smoke. Nah How do you feel about where where does ahead hairstyling sit now in the whole fashioned? How are you feeling about it before this happen? And what could you see happening to it? I mean if I just give you a prompt on thinking that the Croft of what you do will be respected in a new way because because it's something that's not going to be done by machine or computer anytime soon. Saw the the little hands of hair makeup of good to be needed? They're not going to be disposed dolls and saints a friend of Mine. Who Salam the other day. I keep seeing these people talking about cutting you. Robin haired women getting really panic and stress about how you around half. We were only only look out for a week or a few days. Let it grow from it. Take a chill go get stressed I mean. Don't get stressed about cutting your own hair because if you cut your Dissolves the distress will be much for us just relaxed just chill and these headdresses. Salim's are going to be so busy after this lockdown That's going to be a head addressing Because they call people call it around half. There will be always a need for her makeup stylist for the whole team on a fashion. Shoots is the rebirth of the Tony Men Deny you need to talk to Laurie. Alison about talk about this tight little blooms. That you'll mental will have friends at the little the title Curly Perm. Everybody had at a certain time in the poss. My mom had wrapped our member. Yeah Yeah but I'm you On much twenty first you re posted an Instagram by woman co Lucy Johnson. She was basically she was calling out the government. The British government for not really including services like hairdressing in What would not not necessarily essential services but but honest honorable services to the community and the massive industry in this guy brings in billions generates billions of pounds and someone asked me to Notably Johnson bit. Someone asked me to to re posted an IRA and agreed with it and I posted it and then ousted it. I'm in now. There's a woman who supports the hair straightened out. Always has done and also Naomi please. If you feel like it reposed educated strat way lesser and So because beauty is it's crucial to some people. Okay it may not be life or death but it really is a crucial Paul to people's lives people spend a lot of money beauty and a Lotta Dubuque. Industry is self employed and the day when I posted that that had not been addressed by the government but it was very quickly after that and so the comments from people who are losing their businesses so on now now is a bit of feeling the community. Much of a community is addressing. Oh it's it's. It's really incredible that work in community that says this incredible camaraderie between hairdressers and rivalry to if you ever go to the hairdressing worlds. You'll see that in real life and how they treat you a yoga. Iota hairdressing Alleger now I'm the old man of hedge resting. That's for sure but I mean I've never really been because of what we do. We don't work in salins wake Alone you know. We're not working with them in the head as the industry. So it's it's only recently that our Photo shoots a broad Agenda trees as being kind of included in that wild and that's a lot thanks to Katherine Hancock. Who started creative head magazine? She'd years ago. And merged the SAL on world and fouts has shoot worlds together and I think that she's done that magnificently by the you know. The industry has grown enormously. And when I started to do this they were probably six people in the world to maybe on a now there are literally thousands so it was really an industry you know how many fashion shows weather season twenty note. That many either A fats and now it's a it's this monstrous. Merry go round monster. That people can't get else what happens now with with code with Nineteen what happens to address and you sit there are thousands of people there are thousands of livelihoods Agenda what's going to happen to the to the fashion world in the photo shoot. Wilds that let. Let's see what apps because we're only ten days aims to this thing so I don't WanNa make any senator predictions because we don't know But I keep getting options for things. People are very optimistic so I keep getting options for shoots. That are probably not going to happen. But so people are kind of trundling all along and I think the salon business I I would imagine the sound. Business will be booming when we gotta buy because they will be rushing to the headdresses like never before. So let's see how I don't know would have moments for of before and after story that when everybody comes racing back from there are good. Yeah you have to to some at so you are being very optimistic. This potentially an opportunity in a way that that one ideally for everybody who works in fashion for everybody who has ever been making beautiful styling beautiful things making sure that could they possibly can for you know the global audience. This might remind people of what they love about fashion that when when they I mean how. How long is is say. That wasn't enormous lockdown. You say you have options now presumably. You've been working right up to this point so you've been doing hair for fashion shoots of becoming out of the next. How how much to magazines having in the bag in if not I know I know had students for four major campaigns off to the shows and not one happened no one so I guess there's GonNa be a shortage of campaigns this season which makes me think maybe they'll be a shortage of magazines. I don't know I don't know I'm I'm not on. You'd have to do with any of that you have to ask yet but I I it was such a great job. They guys will rise to the occasion in. I just want just unloaded stuffs. That doesn't make it. You know stuff that just that sad and it's also interesting point that if people get used to not looking at fashion in the way they would you still looking at it whether they will fall out of the habit of looking at. It meant way with a lot. Doesn't small independent magazines that really operate on a shoestring now met but maybe they'll be okay because they operate on a certain They'll be finding people still works for free so I don't know it will definitely be a it'd be a great leveler Really everybody everything. Have you ever thought of it as a moment where you could just say you know what I love my garden? I'm I live with stress anymore. I could just I could happily go for the rest of my life in Ono I'd be really ruled. Yeah I mean I I think from me now is buried. It's showing me more than ever that it's about balance. It's about as I said last week to someone may have been used was it's it's con- of it's about fine tuning an Sometimes I think okay. Why are we running around chasing our tails working seven days a week? Sometimes fourteen sixteen eighteen hours a day to reading to do this this. Everyone really needs to do. This doesn't Does it kind of movement recently In some countries of Working a full day waken having three days off which I I'm thinking maybe this is a way forward. Maybe it's not about you know Andy Warhol signed by top eating itself. Maybe we should stop eating ourselves and wake up now. The flowers you know to take the time to to do things for yourself and for your family and you have the flowers to wake up and I did. I know I wrote my bills. Were just planting seeds. Now at. Maybe it's about it's about ballads that sold. You can strive for really. Is it something? That's fundamentalist discovering humanity. You're saying I think you're whites yet because we've kind of become machines. We really so fashion will change. It was changing and you. But this is definitely missile. This will push on much faster and noted by thing. Sam Thank you so much thank you. I hope I get to see the gardens thing do I said well. I hope somebody sees hundred while also patriots or don't want it instagram at Sam at Sam McKnight one seminar for. I'm alright lovely. Thank you Sam. Thank you and if you've enjoyed this episode don't forget to subscribe give us a rating and you might be interested in joining the business of fashion global membership. Community be off. Professional are members receive exclusive deep dive analysis regular email briefings as well as unlimited access to our archive of over ten thousand articles. Our NEW IPHONE APP by annual special print editions and all of the online courses and learning materials from be off education.

Sam McKnight Ibm China Paris Tim blanks everbright founder and CEO San Palo Palo Tim Amazon Ron Ahmed Milan Senate London Tim Tim Gunn editor Heidi Gloom Andy Warhol Sarah Seasons us
Luis Venegas on Print Media in an Age of Uncertainty | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

00:00 sec | 7 months ago

Luis Venegas on Print Media in an Age of Uncertainty | Inside Fashion

"Heiney GLOOM AND TIM. Gunn are back to launch the next global fashion brand in making the cut in his new original series from Amazon twelfth designers from around the world compete for the opportunity to take their brand to the next level. You episodes available every Friday. Watch making the cuts. Only on prime video question was for a long time taking inspiration from all the transversal world but never paid back. You make magazines that people would say that themselves. I have a great idea for magazine now. It will never work. But you've gone ahead and done those magazines Avenue Kanye revenue publication. I do I always feel equally. The last one by break. Do Be Flexible and whatnot myself to the near situations. And that's how you become somehow resilient what happens for everybody now. Had we moves out of this crisis before this crisis. Every new day was also uncertain. We feel that we have controlling the greatest tree. He's like okay. I leave myself carbs. Hi this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion and welcome to the podcast in the latest episode of B. O. F. Live our other large. Tim Blank spoke with Luis Venegas editor and creative director of the cult magazine. Candy they speak about. Fashion has been taking inspiration from gender non conforming cultures without referencing or crediting them. How candy has been critical celebrating. What Vanegas calls the transversal universe and what? It's like to run a magazine like candy in the face of an existential crisis like the corona virus outbreak. Here's Tim blanks and Louis Benegas inside fashion. I'm Tim blanks today. I'm talking to Louis Finagle. Magazine publisher extraordinaire and many other things as well I'm a magazine Junkie. He's a man who has managed to turn his addiction into a Madrid based publishing empire. So I'm really livable. Talking Tam Today. So welcome Louis. It's wonderful to see you Hello everybody Damn I don't know if I should say I'm sorry that would meeting in these in these circumstances but in another way it's it's it's really interesting because you are releasing this book. It's absolutely gorgeous book. Everybody's Ream to have a book published by Rizzoli. The first ten years of Your magazine Candy. Which was what you call the world's first transversal magazine now. That is one of the magazines you publish you. Also have Julie Willing Book covers now. My favorite and the way I found out about you was this magazine. Fanzine one three seven and then you have electric use and you have the printed dog. You make magazines that people would say to themselves. I have a great idea for a magazine. Now it will never work but you've gone ahead and you're done those magazines and made them into beautiful object collectible beautiful things it. Anybody who has ever been in love with a magazine. You have totally tapped into that. Loves TO MAKE IN BLUSHING WELL GOOD. I mean I can't heap praise on your head because You know it's it's I see a library there and it's absolute masterpiece Order Mine is. When is this? This is like Just like you say you're saying my neighbour. No this is like a little inch off the library. No Yeah I mean I I I I mean I've grown up like that. I really love magazines since I was a child and in a way especially fashion magazines and imagery and that scene actually studied fashion design. Because somehow I felt I wanted to be related to the water fashion but then years later realize what I fell in love really of the fashion world wasn't really like you know production of clothes or small evergreens or something that really is industry. I was in love with fashion because of the imagery and the fantasy of fashion that I could see in magazines any books about fashion. That war goff flipped over fresh Hyphenated doors that that made me fan in love with fashion and arts and many other things so I don't know I kind of Dream. Save like well someday. I will like to do my own magazine. And since the first one zero seven that was that was in two thousand four. I mean it's like a sixteen years ago and even blocks back event. Where can starting seeing so I mean for me? There was no option. Maybe if I was thinking about when amazing today new I will start with digit or something but at that time I mean black from that the next stage to remain starting little by little. I mean he wasn't something I am not also he wasn't the thing that I will related to the time so yeah. I tried to start and I made them less now. You see you say that if doing something now you imagine it might be digital but I think what I've always loved about what you do. Is that you you honor the magazine as the Phantom jet. You know when when when I think about the magazines that I when I left New Zealand in one thousand nine hundred seventy four. I had three suitcases and one of them was full of magazine and it was. It was like my favorite magazines. It was the life magazine. Charles Manson on the front and it was very the very first issue of Fabulous magazine with the Beatles on the front and it was a David Bowie. God knows they're actually the only ones that are in plastic. I mean everything else Everywhere but the actual physicality of magazine is something that you ana That you very deliberately set out to do with candy. Which was to take your subject. You'll the marginalized people that you wanted to focus on and give them the absolute multi Vogue Treatment Make Candy as glossy and gorgeous and in disposable as it possibly could be guests douglas. The the I mean I I the I mean. When I started to plan the Doing Candy I felt like it was. It should be something white up the opposite of Dr Magazine I wanted to be glossy on his DS huge celebration of all the subjects and although modest that I was hoping to treat in China amazing show. It's not about them. Tell us about. You'll you'll subjects yet. Well as candidate is focus on what I call the transversal. A people People many people I mean the people who know can be maybe often they think is a trans for transgender magazine. But it's not only about trans or transgender people is also an Rajini stays gender nonconformity people drag queens and also The gender people who suddenly go for transformation for one day for a shoot for fun so for me but was the. That's what Games Branka exactly. The BEBOP Franco puts on the coat. Or like it's for Spanish versus kind of ask you about that is so the thing is like I. I said All of those manifestations basically everything that was like Okay go fuck. Gender Denver doesn't matter. Let's celebrate everything. Well if matters of course but it doesn't matter in a way you know as like Let's focus on everything that has to be. Celebrate the around all those many stations. And that's how it came with bursts of grants because it means going from one place another transitioning going you know and then universal transversal. It felt like okay. Maybe this is the word in a way and That's the magazine focus on. I felt like fashion was for a long time taking inspiration from all the transversal world but never pay back. You know it never it never. I mean that was very all of these aren't by Conde. Dining was something about. The people didn't really know many people who can deduct it was maybe it wasn't obscure subject before especially the younger generations. Sheds Allegra K. Let's put it all together in a magazine. Let's see what happens. Let's see he's going to explode or survive? I don't know but you don't want it to be like a political steam or something like a political statement. I want it to be a celebration. Actually a celebration of style. A celebration of awesome intelligence way on humor and everything that's related to fashioning to celebrate the although stinks and indefinitely broad broadening. The concept abuse. See as well Just making beauty side much more of an inclusive idea taking the traditional fashion magazine approach to beauty and then just In that will you say that the the James Franklin cover we guess Viva Franken When you started your obsession when you when you obsession with magazines began to evolve what was what was Spain like at that time. And how difficult was it for you to feed your obsession? I don't understand what you mean my At what what was Spain talking about you? Presumably you started two thousand and two. You started doing fanzine but you obviously a you know. I imagine you were a teenager in your room. Right collecting Things feeding your obsession. Yes how difficult was it in in? We are talking to Madrid today by the way everybody. So Lewis is in Madrid on on lockdown and I just one good company you know. Just yeah I get that question now. I the first D'Amato that I was really really bury into an colleague. It was marvel comic books. I love the X. Men despite their mind I have thought of that now like the cinema big force. I I love all of that actually. I'm reading a lot of those. These days again. The secondary it used to be back in the eighties when I was a child. And it's amazing. How much they I mean now. I'm realizing now that I'm around. Forty how how they made me. The person I am today is like it's amazing. I remember this little bay or something everything well and also in terms of compensation when I compose a page I can see. It's like oath Storyboards that comic books are in away. Now when I work in my mind I br beginning to realize how those influenced me but then from there went to. I remember my uncle. He broke to me on a record of Spanish singer and see what's wearing addressed by Spanish designer and she was shot by caveat by Bennie. I don't know how many people know Scott Baio Rocky Wirtz. An amazing photo release by back in the eighties was like a master together with Paolo. Roberto were Nick Knight it when the wants playing with caller and everything so from from that. Colbert record. I I keep pulling the thread and I saw I I. I've read graduates or photographs and there was also one gutty behind the graphic design of the whole saving so unclogged rat. They were doing the imagery for CB la. Sabina was also a fashion designer back in the eighties. So I'm finding all the world and they made me feeling lost fairly with with Magazines with with because they get by magazines to try to find the images that they were doing. Yeah it was an easy in. I was living in little down in the suburbs of Barcelona. Now Mike Broadens live there and I have to take a train. It's like twenty minutes from Barcelona so I mean don't find international magazines back in there. I had to go through our salon now and then I don't know for some reason that interest I mean if there's always like a little threat or something like twelve years old or something. When I saw that photograph that I'm telling you now about I mean starting from now all of these years later I'm much more impressive than many things and the things that our economy went through a sky knows. I have a certain policy in that Valentine. A- documentary is the Honda beauty or stumping. Somehow I feel like I went to see and discover new things that may things from the past that maybe I haven't seen yet the thing that sets me the most the rediscovered things that I was supposed to know and I was like what I've been that police. Kande never saw these before something but back. Then it wasn't. It wasn't easy but in a way I went. I started going more and more I alone or both meals and it was so exciting everything. Now you see a cover of a magazine like one months before. It seemed a new stance. You'll see those in your cell phone and that's okay at. How exciting was then the Global News and discovered the magazine there until Kit on? I mean that was really exciting. It sounds like Older Generation d'aquin badly creative. Okay well I'm an older generation. The new I had exactly the same feeling when you when you got pull away. When Bruce Weber did a special issue totally with a bounden something like the summer diary bound into the magazine. When you got back I was living in Toronto. Then and you just like it was probably the only one of them came in to Toronto and you had it and the feeling of I mean I've got all of them. I like you just they become. You'll you'll little your tokens. I have to say this even lockdown. I'm lucky that I have my dog so I can walk him and there's a new stand that the snyder fashion near at all. I mean they have like boss guards and everything but for some reason they keep bringing international fashion magazines. I don't know why not I mean not that most excuse wines by the Mason wants and I think he basically lays gradient went to me. Is that the the leash issue of a bow us. I wanted to go so I even in the days of lock them. I Walk Little. Bit Farther than I'm supposed to be allowed to go and looking for magazines. I know that well I I suppose that begs the question. What do you feel about magazines now? I mean the the the I feel the investment I had in finding the face or a blitz or pillowy a Jill Jill from Paraguay. Burs life magazine Babette Dijon's magazine though. When you found those magazines that sort of you had a connection with polly was it was so hard to find them I just wanted to now where I just wonder if what what makes a magazine special now that that that is what thrilled me about fanzine and about candy that they I realized. Now you're talking. I realized they brought back that feeling of of kind of liked that. Zing of obsession. Because you're obsessed so you know I can totally relate but you do see that in other places you still see that in other places. Now you've been another Madison's in other magazines. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah. I like many magazines Do electing to drop names of magazines that I like or for some reason. That would be nice. I love to do that. I I'm not one of those editors who feels like all other bobby. Our editors are their enemies. No I keeping giant Barry much what my other competitors are doing or something. I like very much Actually let's start with with the Spanish magazine so so you know I think about those guys are great while Yeah I. I also like very much Buffalo Buffalo's sin They're actually there are the ones I mean. We're supposed to be a new issue outlet Now but they have to stop or something that may be. That'd be belayed or something so tomorrow at eight you can download a little Vdi for partly of conduct or something. So I will check that I would like to see I'm excited to see new things What else like I make like some Lady Liberty? Much this magazine. Great Huge magazine. The new revision that they started like Like three four five years ago of Holiday magazine. Yeah finding I love holiday but this I realized that they like. It doesn't matter if they go through this candy. Nabi out or Egypt. Every issue looks kind of the same New Zealand. If let you see it's like they do one issue for his country because of me about Anna distinct. They have such a strong personality that I think it goes against the concept itself. Because it's like it doesn't matter where they go every issue looks kind of the same always great and always probably less but I mean I'm saying yes I compliment because what. I liked the most in magazines if your going to ask. This kind of thing is personality liking. I it making people. I mean actually audiobook or in a magazine or in the movie. I not to see a boys. I love to see different personality. Something that is makes a brother or an article distinctive from anything else. I thought I'd like to see that. And I I mean the identity on the under you know when you feel like this so I don't know I like fantastic man. What they do is always great. I feel like they started. Like a like a school of Maximal. Our magazine say they also influence other Gentleman magazines away. So I like that. They like that. The strong personality is working on on on printed matter. And then I. I think something that that you did that. I respond to in magazines Like System magazine does the my no I is. Is that wonderful sense of the archive coming alive. You know that absolutely you did this. with fanzine. I'm out. I'll never know how you got. People like Richard Buckley Bruce Weber to Iraq. Stu was a I I did read that you you're right. The Most Thomas Jefferson. Hack in it all worked for the Candy Book. Did say that. You're famous for writing the most charming lessons that absolutely nobody can resist. So you got intensely private people basically send you the baby photos with what was just incredible. That you've got people to do something like that But in candied at the at the beginning of candy you would you very diligent about introducing your audience to the lost heroes and heroines of the LGBT LGBT. Should culture of reminding people that that baffles had been Ford and won or lost for decades on behalf of freedoms that people had now And I always thought that was really that added. This incredible emotional undeterred to candy. I I it's there's nothing. There's nothing better than initiating something you love and also being able to feel gratified that you learned a whole lot while you're loving it. You know that in some way you'll consciousness was expanded. I'm blowing smoke up your ass here but I think that that's the very it's very. It's a very valuable thing that you manage to do with your. You managed to turn your obsession. This incredible platform to give credit to people who maybe never had it while they were alive or even even while they also give the thing that surprised me. I mean surprisingly. Thank you very much I am. I mean I the people who really have to get the credit for all of that for five classroom inclusive. Everything that is the actually are the activists that people who have five. I mean I'm just done an ally making a magazine been always not the kind of but I recently. I read a quote of Franken had Sahni in. There's a book of her And they were talking about that. Famous black models issues idiots for she did for bogey and she said like you know anyone could have done it. But I'm the one who did it and I kind the same. I was wondering myself. How is it that it has never been done before I I mean I was feeling before it started in Jefferson Hack? You watched one of the people. I talked to On there's also. Jimmy poll asked five dollars hairdresser. Who just beat Jimmy Paulette in benefits the non golden images of the brackets the offer actually and I saw. Yeah studying geniune thinking about doing this. Nice in how you have to do it and you have to. Now I mean don't waste your time. If it was very very encouraging he was like well. Okay so maybe I have to do it. It was two thousand when he gave me. That advice does West. Recession Time Same as now is going to be. Probably it. Looks like he's going to be another recession. And that's in recession when this goes out it's like Phil. Somehow is closing the circle or something but yeah. I don't know it's the right thing to do and I'm I'm happy. Does somehow the response from many people who had been somehow diminish too fast now. They felt like they have a platform and they have a n. I sorry I have to say I never. I mean backing thousand eight thousand nine. I never saw any transgender or transvestites. Or drag Queens on the. I mean there were some one and they're they're add never in the car on the cover of Glossy Fashion magazine. They were not inclusive included in most fashion shows are something. So I'm not saying all of that happened because of candy but certainly I mean maybe I realized it was going to happen and I realized the little than everybody else and it would that magazine. Somehow everything together help to the. It's funny because I wanted to be a the usual glossy fashion magazine and now glossy fashion magazines more and more seo content that could be very easily be in candy. So it's ready. I love that I mean somehow I feel I'm not putting any metal or something. I helped to manage some across an agent of change or something. I say I don't know. I hope I contributed to that. But do you feel that as as the world is opened up to embrace the culture that you focus on in the magazine when we have repulsed drag race finished huge multi Emmy Awards Sensation Emmy Award winning sensation? We have Survey that's the I mean. Yeah she's like ten years doing it but the recognition and the words arrived like two or three years ago. Yeah she's doing the show for seven years before that recognized on we'd be both repeal signs directly with what you need and finally getting their mission so I guess he thinks but at the end if the message is strong and everything it it. I mean it's GonNa be there he's GonNa succeed. I I hope I guess but then you have posed as well and you have. You have the shows you have these these things which if you think what when was Priscilla Queen of the desert? How long ago was that? I think ninety three ninety four. Okay so that was. That was an outrider at that point. Yeah there's always been like a luminaires light Brazilan many others. Of course. Yeah there's always been but you feel candy has changed to reflect. I feel From the from the beginning of candidates now I feel candy got younger. I feel it got more reflective of the culture. Now it got it. Aimless Archive will And it was. It was much more about reflecting. You know when you have hurriedness editing an issue and ally and doing the multi covers and and it's it seems like it's less Less kind of can I say. This is sort of introduction to a culture As it was when you first start when you had a story on Candy Darling herself. Men. Now it's much more reflection of what's happening right now. It seems to it's it seems now to be more of a more kind of journalists it perhaps than it used to be and you mean it in a is a good Would like to know it. Just it just feels a lot more like you felt you'd done what you set out to achieve and now you will making a magazine that was about now in a way. When they started there was there was there was a lot that was about the end. They were they were you. Could you could see you've been saving up stories for years. These are the people if I ever had a magazine. These people want to be a story on could feel that and now it's much more. It's it feels much more immediate much more rooted in the now APPs I know at a at a note of I mean I guess I'm not I mean I am the same person that I was back then in two thousand nine because I basically think we we don't change by we keep on transforming ourselves go so maybe my own feeling of it. It's it's not a I mean what do mention I appreciate at the supper section of you. I mean of your feeling looking at the magazine. It's not really a bland or something that I but. Yeah there's more kneel. I mean there's more transgender and personnel. Yeah Yeah and so I wanted to show is more of that culture. Exactly half-way photograph. Yes yeah so. That's much more but still I always. I mean although stories are night archive or something. I always have a special place in my heart from to them. No yeah because I really enjoyed. I mean in the last issue of candy. There's a story of a of a transfer man which is alive. Her name is Joey. Gabriel and she. She's been photographed by non-gaullist Jackson David on actually she has a lot of fades as in the book and was shot by the same by her friend fabulous. Journalists and artists called sunny suits. She's always been Berry Berry supportive. I'm very collaborative to me. She believes in candy a lot. So she's kind of Joey her still visual images kind of unknown or babies. Justin obscure the Spaniards Lebron Cox. You know it's a different kind of icon for minority. And I felt like I'm she was. Sahni of the lady who the girl who was doing the study of outer she gets showing me scrapbooks that Joe we had done with photos and gets from concerts and everything I was like. These are amazing. We have to put this in a magazine and it became the longer story. The longest story of candy is like sixty basis in the last year of Candy. And I did that and then I had response from Highness for example is USA me. Who's this Joey Davis Amazing? So you know way it's like a again. This kind of thing thing is going. I said like how exciting west to go to a at the news and see the magazine. It's something of younger people. Maybe don't get well at the end. They get it. I mean the younger generation of people I mean I have I mean I had France Counting NEED TO PUT A. I need term helping to all the library in place and every time they have a book that it wasn't a a wild is working so somehow boss Brinson neglecting. Its and digital much beach. Those southlake enjoy very much physical stuff. Everything is scheduled the same as long as it has like a again identity and it's a strong passion and Heart in all those stories. Somehow I don't know like like Shimon or something. Sorry when when when did you first become aware transversal culture what what was the? What were the key people? Who who kind of would you into it? I was a child when I was a child when I was seeing some singer on TV and my sister. She's four years older than me. I was probably like seeks or seven or something she thought. Hey you're lying the female singer and it was like yeah. He's amazing look at her and she was well she said boy. I no no no. It was boy George Charlie. As a child he looked like A. I mean that's went. He had the bribes on the word is snooping over all of that down the chameleon that Baba and he looks so amazing with a makeup on everything I was like. Wow so he never. I'm being he's not a transgender person at all but to me that image somehow broke the concession had as a child of how a woman go look up abortion way. I mean maybe ball we on all of them. I mean they were before that I discovered them later because child and so that was wasn't to be back in the eighty S. He was more later. The image for me. The first time it was it was the boy. George yes then. Any Lennox stressing like a man which was exactly the same time. Sweet Dreams are made of these iconic. Look I mean that Iran. Hair the suit. Everything was affection that was those are strong images that so by the time. I mean it doesn't matter could have been done while it could have been done yesterday. It was done back in the eighties because I felt like maybe I hope I don't know this whole crisis. Maybe if it brings something growth. Maybe I feel like in the last issue in years like last two decades of the century and even maybe the I do a bit of this century I mean when I was a child growing up in the eighty s. There was the of the future. How few doors going to be how the future was Italian? That how that's why I get the perception because when you're the child somehow you see fewer more and more worst but now everything looks more like they used to focus on bringing things from the past but not really give recognition to the to the funds where they found those references or something so I don't know if we like When it's again every every every generation isn't titled to Have Their View. I consider seeing by. I don't know I feel like back in the eighties and early nineties. Most of the bourgeoisie of future There's going to be. What can they bring to the future? What would is neil there in March Of thing more than it is now because I think that it had you know when you talk about the Boy George Images and now he was so benign in a funny way but how inflamed people go by him or even even you can go ten years later and you can look. It could cobaine wearing those dresses that he will or ten years earlier. And you think about the images that that that hit me the way Boy George you I remember seeing a story about the caucus in a magazine and I remember the first story I ever saw about. Jackie Curtis and Candy. Darling a magazine now. I was absolutely mesmerized by these people and the whole notion of transgression lacking transversal. I mean this transformation this transition but also transgression it is. That's a that's enormously appealing to a certain kind of teenager The there was something so utterly there was something joyful but there was something so transgressive about about the caucus warhol superstars. I was obsessed and I would read. I come to a magazine like come candy and it gives me the back story that I wanted to have when I first read about those people do a big heavy evidently big story about high biscuits and candy about who have not yet not yet nothing. Actually I've been with one of the original croquettes A roomy Masanobu. And but yeah. It's it's one of the but I also feel like they were fierce stories of makeup guests. Lots Jack I is amazing. Stephen May settle inspiring story in the way. That was a great one in acting in favor. I mean those now are like a seventy chevelle unleashed so maybe I'll kind than I ever gate memories assured but it's just it's just funny. How powerful you talk about. Boy George and how powerful lows those things have a stay with you and how they kind of full the way you look at the things you find yourself. You know when David Bowie came along and used used slowly and image in his images and videos. Thanks and 'em how are you? You had that sense that a lot of other people like you. Who had been looking at the stuff. But you didn't know you know those people you've found them later on you sound you'll people. Did you feel sort of you? A quite isolated. When you first did fanzine no never. I've never so elated at all. It's like I mean I'm not I don't know if you I mean we really enjoy being now. Our little Border Place of three or something. I I always have France. I've always enjoyed very much going out with my friends but I by far much being home alone in looking at magazines and look searching for I don't know I I I really like it. So and the people who are now part of my crew of people that I am Franson. Somehow you have to look for them but not really to me it. It happened. Naturally you know way and many friends. I've met them through the. I've met them through the work. I've done Had these relied conducting. Somehow that person becomes my friend and I don't know it's it's very much like that and I never felt I mean it's really great that now there's social media and if there's some people feeling some teenager girl or boy feeling as maybe late that that I never felt that maybe they feel now through social media they have the many people like them everywhere in the world and that's so great I mean and we have the possibility seen this many different golders different from what we see every day while of course this is nothing new. What I'm saying like now like at a yesterday. No it's been like that for the last two allison year for something really great. The realized that it's like I really say it's a very progressive thing when people say like iphones over. Screens is elated. As I never thought that was true before and now with this crisis is less through than ever before. Now that we are that we have to stand this screens that we able to communicate and see each other so I feel like the perception through that is Gonna. Change also do older generation because the Miami. I see my nephew on. May Thirteen and fourteen years old. They don't even think about it. I mean tonight Screens for granted as we have Foams for granted. I Dunno away when I was growing up. You know so. It's like when you see those eighties Mobile is still h movies. And there's a girl talking on the phone on there's another kid. Hey I default or something years the same thing as asking your son or your asking your children now to stop looking at the at the at the computer. The cell phone is the same thing. Only the object is the friend. But he's the same thing I could go back further to the day when they would telephone exchanges. Like bye bye Birdie with everybody on the telephone exchange but failed with Elizabeth. I'm still the. The idea appeals to me that in the nineteenth century there were literary salons and You know where people would get together and rices auspice musicians of dances. Whatever would get together. There'd be the sort of exchange of ideas and everybody would go away and rich right now. There's an old repeatedly exhibition on in London which nobody can go and see unfortunately but he did the sinkhole the yellow book and he drew all the sort of interesting kind of transgressive people from his moments into this this publication and that became lack the benchmark for for culture moving forward. It became like the inspiration for people who came after him. Isis and Rice's musicians and so on and I kind of feel when you have something like candy It's like a secret society in a way that that just you know expands to embrace the world and I wonder how you know you're living in Madrid you'll you'll I have ever see you anywhere. I'm you you're not like somebody who's kind of wildly traveling around the circuit You know like a like a imperialist does I just wonder how whether you have a step back and look what you've done and think. Oh my God you know that that is not I mean you. You have a sort of innate humility but You need a lot of ego to to achieve what you've achieved up man humility. There's they saw from cutlass segment where she says. I don't expect humility. But what about some would all dishonest modesty? So I feel like I'm kind of some. I mean Yeah. I'm going to reveal yet. I The most. I play dishonest modesty. Actually because I know what I've done and I I'm brought obeyed and Yeah it's like What was the question? I whether you have a setback from whether you could save by look good. God is finding this. I have an your submission about the ego. Yes I have I have to say. Maybe because I'm more Bursa late to us back by you and I'm not I kind of have a big ego yet but longest seawall was at the same time to be flexible and doing all and not to be. I mean but Eagle in I hope to me Vesta way possible. I know who I am. I being buried a secure about myself. I'm Mike bowers in a way I always have. I mean I grew up being the bully. Who had the better grades in in a school in always in my classroom so somehow that helped me and also my mother. When I was a child she just to say she just down me. Oh my son. You're still beautiful. Your handsome how beautiful you are so I grew up thinking I was this kind of a ball or something. I realized I'm not. I mean I used to be a different kind denny. God I. I hope that that gave me confidence. I really gave me confidence in what doing what I can do. What my powers are and then doing the Mac with doing the book the book when you say Michael Accomplish now that it's finally I was looking to all those users that Donald the last eight years and I you know I know exactly what story is and I mean if you tell me remember I show you the way of the bread like yeah. That was in the thirties. You know I really know where everything is in. I was looking at those magazines and it was like something else. Someone else had done them. I mean is like there's a lot of war in here. How do they manage? But the thing is on managing to do that every day so I really also believe in those things in my hands like the work hard. Hard work I feel like well if you have the kind of special powers to do something while you have to work to make them happen. It's not only being. I mean the more. It's not only about I. Every time thinking on that thing where they say. Oh he's or she's such a talent while Donald is okay but it's not off. I mean you'll have to work on that otherwise dahlen goes wasted. I don't know it's like So it's it's things like the worst thing in my case. Is the hard work where I do what I like the most to do so for me. It's not like it's not like all I have to go to work now. It's right astronaut For you or on the theme doing on you're going to show and real thinking and writing on. Robert is a thing that moves you the most to do. I guess I don't know Back that I think you're extremely blessed if you can if you can do what you love when you love what you do you know I. It's yeah but also You're blessed but at the same time I feel like you have to be in a way especially when you start your life and your younger Brian to realize where you're going to do with your lights. I have to realize said hopefully when you realize to have to be brave. I'm both for it because sometimes people get scared like I don't know I mean if you're looking for I mean being an independent body share like I am right now and Gwen bring as young doing right now. People are saying about you sleep duration with corona buyers. And everything. All of. It's GonNa Change. Everything is what have you so weak. I mean I've always I mean. Probably now he's GonNa be worse than ever but I always kind of I mean my team is always been like A. Maybe if you'll have a team of people that you have to pay their salaries every month. Yeah it's kind of scary but in my way I've always felt like Avenue of Candy or Revenue Publication. I do I always feel like it could be the last one because assignment independent person and I'm not I don't have a financial or something You know being the the I mean I have to mind is sold that so I always felt like kind of you know like working on that thread like novelist or something and somehow succeeding through our right to the last four next. And then you go away and then I mean doing that. Same thing with like novelists from when he should another native Dan GonNa fall or something. But I don't know to be flexible and without myself to new situations. And that's how I that's how you become some how resilient and use those things in a way so you're is really working on that every day if you fool you have piles and piles of books and magazines to tombs. Softened the impact. I have to ask you if there was something catastrophic in you in your place. What is what would you. What would you run towards to say? What would be the thing that you what. What is the one magazine that you would say? The one that hours to the one magazine this I mean it's funny because you know this great photo critic been solidity. Yes rate one. S Yeah I got real with him this. I wasn't burn back then. Keep discovery when when I mean. He was a child when he went through the the news on both. Got One but this issue of Harper's bazaar April Nineteen Sixty. Five is a very famous goes. They have insurance undercover with a blend. Yes yeah honest. Guest edited by Richard and I bought it. I don't know like ten years ago or something way later. I mean it was. I wasn't born in nineteen sixty five westbound way later but it doesn't matter because the energy the energy on an extremely strong the graphics I can't leave the same feeling the same emotion as being the nature by then on describing all that but I can see the hour and it was done by a really good friend of mine the creative Eddie Dornald. There are directed for issue. I mean return was the guest editor but the art director was Ruth Ansel. She is like not. She's like cops. She is a eighty something. I will say an item through ask a lady in New York Iconic ICONIC in the best way islanders iconic Barry Austin about A cheese and she was doing Harper's bazaar back in the sixty s and the New York Times in the seventies and Bindi Fair within Lebron's in the eighties. So for me. That's like wow. When then all the books he's been doing lately she's work a lot with team worker recently in the last year so also and the fact that she had that's meant to that specific issue. I mean for many reasons that one of the of my most favorite after that all the Especially Ninety six. Oh Ninety seven. I felt like those years. They did like the strongest the with may sounded they did like the strongest stories of the Lieber was there everybody was there. I mean Hell. New Dome was shooting for Italian identity. Any I mean the the talent of people working in there. Well also right now. There's amazing great that people working in. I love note. Photographer's light hardly wear. She's grade or be beyond Sasser or Act Davison yet the missing incredibly Jiang's Rian and there's also people that are actually showed him for Gandhi and I feel like that growing up in this great for clay. I'd really love her. I mean there's also I mean the the wheel doesn't stop and I also feel like Oprah said before like all these Stalin is also an with a great for work and the people who are talented. But they're doing something there. I mean I know. They added on a hard worker has been banned is or was I mean and now these young people are also working tyler. Mitchell now doing exhibitions and working for vogue. And I mean if you're living the dream of living making a living of your passion of what you like you have to. I mean you lackey so you'll have to dwar car in order to was it gets always someone else as they say. Being showgirls at the end of the stairways hoping happy to do what's out of time but I just wanted to ask you one more thing Lewis in this moment that we've that the This moment that invalid us. That contextualize is everything. We've been talking about right now. What you see happening but you've just mentioned a whole lot of talented young people whose were conspires you and I feel the same way there is. There are people now making me feel really good about magazines What what what happens for everybody now? Had We move out of this crisis in a way that Support SINCE THE SAINTS. Everyone well we should was Which is kind of Donald for something magical our. I have a little ball or something to say about what to say but I mean recently. I've always I mean like yesterday or a couple of days ago. There was a boss from racism a lot. She said like Like when when in terms in this time of this crisis has something like I dunno. I squad her but you can go through instagram and check her viruses Follow her and now she says in this time of a crisis a has the potential of bringing the best in all of us and I feel like that quote is I mean. It's kind of a basic away but a feeling that's also kind of a true is like Well we are going to figure out how to keep on doing things and we always spent I also Even though it sat on Florida nate a horrible situation. We'll have been so much better you will. We will have the chance to continue life normally but does not the anymore? It's not gonNA happen. This thing is happening now so we have to figure it out move forward. Well yes right to remain somehow positive feeling strong about ourselves who we are what we can do how we can Be More sympathetic more compassionate to others because he also failed before this like things. Were GOING REALLY FAST. Like really like a congenial. Like when you see one of those with rain that is like snow. Pf Sarah Rain keeps running running running on you know at some point. He's going to explode or something. It's pretty much that way. And the and now it feels like maybe the train I was kind of crashing little by little. But then it's like a phoenix from the X. men again you'll have to rise up again at the ingredient the recipe to make that thing work. I really don't know it's like Is Uncertain but before this crisis every new a was also uncertain. We feel that we have drawn things but the greatest of is like okay. I live myself to cows. And let's see what it brings to me. Maybe is running. Any bad is GonNa be good but it doesn't have to be enough to be necessarily add that he knows I mean. I don't know it's difficult to say it's kind of. It's also how you date seeing and what you make of them in a way. What were the words on the spine of the last issue of candidate It was if love deadlocked thank you. Louise was lovely to talked here. I buy if you've enjoyed this episode. Don't forget to subscribe. Give us a rating and you might be interested in joining the business of fashion. Global Membership Community B. O. Professional are members receive exclusive deep dive analysis regular email briefings as well as unlimited access to our archive of over ten thousand articles. Our NEW IPHONE APP by annual special print editions and all of the online courses and learning materials. Be off education.

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Tim Walker Talks Wonderful Things | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Tim Walker Talks Wonderful Things | Inside Fashion

"The taking pitch Lee McQueen because I'm celebrating. I'm not taking a pitch of Tim Walkers impression impression of Lee McQueen throughout all the rooms and wonderful things what what you become really aware of is how transformative power of the imagination and said it's. It's not just you being inspired by the object. It's people who made the object. There's a definite melancholy. Toko Fay's inescapable click the Cama goes and then you like goes the beauty that's it it's done and then you have a photograph and that's a to d representation of something that was sublime hi this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion and welcome to the podcast this week as London fashion week was taking place fashion. Insiders were already buzzing about a new exhibition at the Victoria and Albert Museum in honor of the photographer Tim Walker occur the exhibition features more than one hundred and fifteen new works inspired by the Vienna's own collection in an exhibition designed by Shona Heath now now our very own tim blanks had the opportunity to sit down with Tim Walker just before the exhibition opened and he came back blown away so here's Tim blanks thanks and Tim Walker inside fashion about wonderful things at the Victoria and Albert Museum. I'm sitting here with Tim Walker on the occasion yeah of his show wonderful things Victorian album museum and I've just seen the show so it is such a pleasure to have a self paternity to talk about it with Tim him and I think everybody who comes to the show. It is a world of one day. It is full of wonderful. Things and I wanted to know why Tim Kohl his show wonderful. Things I think wonderful thing is is working project facilty as in you're encountering some different things and it was suggested journey is going to be cool to the an odyssey the journey didn't really know what we're going to quote it never really had added and then my producer. Jeff said do you know the the story of Tuten coming when they go into the teams in Tutankhamen and Howard Carter was asking heated helicopter go if how how Accounta- oven they went into the teams and they find any broke for it and then there was soy `lance and can you see can you see in oversee. He could see a time capsule of the worldly extraordinary. The vision that will he could say was wonderful things and that kind of in a way chimed with with E. C. When you come to the vein I think think I think it's funny. When you go into the exhibition the first thing you encounter is the the corridor of a retrospective that's by brightly lit room and it's and just to sort of a speedy boarding journey through my talk for the last two decades two decades and then you get to the end of it and it's called the chapel of needs which is all the new work. I've done we very recently and that's kind of where I am at the moment mint complete liberation of people without clothes on a very sensitive beatf away and then the maniacs fictional the then go on into is cool a wonderful things and that's dyslexia love letter to Savannah for myself. How would you if we start right at the beginning. which is long corridor with with the retrospective view of your work over the past few decades? How would you describe that work now. When you look at it what what's distinguishing cat distinguishing characteristics Sobat body of work of the first corridor yeah got it said like you don't realize his photographer that what you're doing so so one thing it's so so clear as to voice is such a one voice thing and then you look back at any. Oh God yeah. That's that's PAT said she's one very. I didn't realize I was just being Repetitive by taking the same ten pitches in a way this sort of like yeah absolute absolute fantasy and degree relented. Why relentless do feel feel it over overpowered? You think well. It's interesting you mention and because you have to books out is as a book for the exhibition wonderful things in another book shoot for the Moon which is absolutely big meanchey monograph and you make a very interesting point in that book that you you felt that the scale maybe the production the the the technicalities of those images set you will making you lost touch with the moment that that the magic of the moment of making an image that you have bogged down and putting beds and trees and in crystal ships in stately homes. I mean they are extraordinary images. I think I think that's really a a key thing. You've picked up on that. That is very much hard. Fail now felt like I was carrying very heavy bags but when I was younger as Tokyo had the energies energies do it takes enormous amount of physicality to make that type of image 'cause it some the very sort of complicated set like the beds in the trees what you just explained it very. It's a lot it's a lot and and you can see in your head and you you won't get that make the picture but by by meditating on that vision that you have in your head you often miss the the beauty of the spontaneous about the things flutter in front of you that way more sublime than you'll premeditated vision. I think what what what has always been awesome magical about that early work earlier work. Is that that sense that nothing was impossible you could you could defy gravity you get you could make a you could make a grey elephant blue. You could turn pussycats Persian pussycats into kaleidoscope callosum there was there was that kind of incredible energy. I mean when you when you look at surreal surrealism surreal losses savvy Lozada's. You feel the same sort of joy subversive in a way. I think it's it attend the my point of view. I think it was a a so playful. It was really playful and that play assistive. Let building a tree house or building putting on a stage production. It took a lot though takes a lot dirt another thing to realize realize that you have to just Yank put immense amount of energy into it which is something. I don't have any more. Did you feel something I don't not only we don't have that. I think that was what that whole period as a photographer when I was really exploring that fantasy that was a really exploded and by really engaging with the m the the pure pleasure of playing with fantasy and the impossible by then now realize that that you miss out on other things things may be by because you'll focus so much on making the impossible possible and happen and physical what with anomaly of extraordinarily talented collaborate is to make that happen as now to see a beauty in simplicity of at beat Sfu nude man man or woman or the simplicity of a girl in an incredibly beautiful dress against white background and I think any any complicated extra stuff fails like Hannah gauge did you did you. Did you feel actually that the that it was almost becoming cliche in a way that is a tim welcome by the graph you've had such a definite signature and I'm feeling now the playfulness it was sa- fantasy there was sort of a kind of dreaming as now there were there were different under current says darkness eroticism is a there's a power there is much more primal baps which is used used to be. I think the culture of taking pictures of people against the white background was was literally a response to going the other way to making very fantastical set sets in photographing people in sets. It was just a sort of a celebration shen over the person didn't want to I didn't want to disguise if you'll photographing someone you'll you're photographing. David Lynch and I grew up watching David Lynch's we all we all did sudden sitting in front of David Lynch. Why would you put David Diaper Lynch into very complicated set because then you kind of lease David Lynch and that was very interesting sitting with him because he was so into this simplicity of the portrait and we had a big discussion about his transcendental meditation action and the sort of the emptying of the fantasy in a way if meditation nations your emptying your head of you'll thoughts or your fantasies. That's the island love that may most recently we saw portraits of Margaret Atwood in the Sunday Times last weekend. She was ingesting began is kind of a little bit of I did photograph very simply you know when she first came in but she really quickly realizes that she's got a great love of fashion she she loves clubs and she really wanted to amplify persona for that photograph. Tov She wanted to become vicar than she is and in that way of is a shoot like that collaboration then a minute was totally more. It's more leaning towards directing herself and me mainly helping to achieve that that's what gives me most pleasure when you photograph when you meet someone like Margaret Atwood and she comes to the studio and I sit down on Abba conversation with put an. I try and fail her out and Phil what she wants to do. In than a she really wanted to play and she wanted to play dress up and she wants to celebrate the book she just written and she she'd even listing out the the colors and the graphics of the cover of the testaments and and how that can be translated fewer she will and then she went and looked to all the clothes in the dressing room and she she cherry picked a Black Cape in agreeing glove and then she was like I really would love a feather. Can we get a feather. We didn't have a feather so then the stylist Silas Harry had to dismantle hacked that had a long pheasant feather in it that became a quill and then she was like I I really think we need to get some eggs. You must have eggs in your fridge and we're not we don't have any eggs but we can get an egg so then some momentum golden eggs you completely. He choreographed photograph and that is a gift for me because I'm that photograph then becomes and Margaret Atwood is not my perception of Margaret Atwood. It's she's. She's chosen to that end. She was just so enjoyed enjoyed it and and yet she was really with it and she met she made it consult portrait away Selfie. I helped to make herself which is really a gift was thing you could do would be to put? Tim handmaid's tale. You know that'd be the worst thing you can do to sort of town into characters in Book and you prefer working with portrait's win. It set kind of into play. I mean what what what's your usual portrait shoot because as we've says as fling in them thirty a in the room downstairs if the a section the poach text ankle the handshake in I think it really really describes how I feel about making a traitor. Among is like the person Neil photographing is walking tool Jian as a pathway between yourself the camera and the person you want to take picture of them picture of and they won't towards you and as you get towards them hopefully you'll align and you will meet in the middle and you'll shake the hand date you'll agree a- satin baton way of how you can celebrate that person and they will say. I WANT TO SKULL I won't to quail will or I want to wear a pink dress or I won't be photographed with San or whatever the and that's a discussion and that's the agreement treatment. I think if I dictated and said it's interesting you know with that you would leave. McQueen it was I wanted that scalp own his head and then he had a bow tie mated bones so he was skull-and-crossbones. He was like there's no way I'm GONNA put skull on my head. Coach might have bones by really like skull and I really WANNA walk in. He he choreographs the the the skulls in the bones and made it his pigeon than he was smoking in the needs a cigarette and he stuck inside the skull in that became the pitch so that's let me as well a lot not do not to push something onto anyone because I'm taking a picture of Lee McQueen because I'm celebrating him. I'm I'm I'm not taking a pitch of Tim. Mockus impression of Lee McQueen queen. I won't the picture of Lee McQueen to be of Lee McQueen so the fact that he then changed my toys in made the maison was what made that Pitcher you assisted Abbott on your assisted Richard Add on and I noticed it was a is a quote from from him in in in the show where he he'd be advice he gave you was the The subject comes although end in the technique yet. Don't don't ever ever ever get complicated away down in props all complicated lighting flash systems that are. GonNa fuck up you you just go to the person in front is the goals that is what everything is. That is the absolute point of your that. The decisive moment is what's Infront do feel you've come to understand that better with time though that when you go into the capital of the nude for yeah yeah and and it's so graphic that room it's quite stock and like I said before it's doc it's quite erotic and that feels else to me like the sensibility that you acquire with age and experience Zena appreciation. I never would have taken needs previous said never would have I've known how to an eye has just young with age. You understand that certain people really comfortable expressing themselves need and I think again. It's like the poetry you talk to them and discuss what they want to do. In you navigate you'll camera with responsibility and with immense respect you can cry incredibly be fooled need pictures. I think that's where I'm at the moment I found that really thrilling work with people that the won't collaborate in that way I think again because he's Dipoto poed opposite to Hashem photography which is if a portrait of a subject on white plain white background is the antithesis this to a baroque fantasy set than a need study is the antithesis to fashion photography you it's such a celebration of flashlight. Ashley Rooms is all type says you've got. Beth Ditto and then you've got some Oliver Bailey the fitness instructor and Kate Monson Awesome extraordinary series of pictures based on Angela coaches but the magic toy shop with a twist united. They all all of abating photos. He's beautiful man but it's like Francis Bacon's pacing paintings of George Dyer than they've all got a a subtext I am you know it's so beauty's in the eye the bowel the and and I could see something about out of a baby that was instantly bacon. It was his bacon and it who is just he's he's. He's not a performer either. He's he's. He's a spokesman. So how'd you get a spokesman to perform become an oath to his bacon painting and yeah it was a really interesting clumsy the difficult and then when you start to see a way in to Francis Bacon world or or an then yes such exciting anyone anyone he's really interesting. A friend of mine said to tomat- she's a stylist our allies code and she said is really interesting photographing people because everyone has something anyone you could just walk out. Blindfold will come to bus in the fifth person along the seat they everyone has something and the responsibility responsibility of the photographer is to find a bt in anyone because everyone has something in a way that's the challenge of photography but it's also the freedom of Talk Radio Man. You've got you've got so much. Easy access in with the camera is a is a very convenient tool to access. I think the camera the camera gives reason it justifies one's presence somewhere and it justifies these peculiar meetings when you're photo during a tried to someone he don't you knew no because the celebrated a celebrated writer that celebrated artists you've never met them before and by virtue of the camera they all sitting being in front of you that that's this of light when I was starting out as talk for us to use my dog on a let my dog off and then I'll be snooping around trying to find a location take pitches and I thought if my dog was off and then I would be trespassing. Essentially the people come chesting have lost my dog. My dog inside the the camera is the allows you into places and gives you a reason to be the so it's it. It's not a distancing thing that it's actually makes it actually creates an intimacy. I think the camera doesn't the distance. I think if you're going to photography am with the personal photographing you'll with them. You'll use your oh celebrating them. You want them to look amazing. You want them to look glorious. That's what you'll that today. mcq cameras mainly am a black box. You put between you and then and it's it's yeah. It's a tool of intimacy. How did you come to photography kind of I didn't think cameras or can be incredibly complicated. Am things and I sort of like I don't think I can you know 'cause working with Avedon for example it will the he was put the subject. I his his camera. His technique was actually quite complicated. He worked on the tenny camera with flash full flash. Show six flashlights going off a sore eight win machines. It was incredibly dramatic. Complicated setup often even though his his mantra was keep it simple I never ever thought I could I could ever and I wasn't interested in in the camera and the workings of the camera and then I discovered a very very simple camera. That would be kind of the equivalent. I suppose of an iphone today just the anyone can just hit the button on the phone is called the camera icon on it's it works it was a Pentax k one thousand that Sam the most simple simple simplest camera you can use and once I discovered that that that that was how I went forward I was. I was always yeah so I could damage it but that's how I did it but it feels it feels to me like like your you'll inspiration. Driving Force was your own imagination nation. I love that line from your mother about guy out. Go out into the God and you don't move mothers should be saying to their kids. I guess funds in the computer. You'd go out to the garden and use you imagine easier medicine action. That feels like something that's various how I was brought up. Yes she visited like Doc. Reno has any child his that Bodo they didn't want to do side. Make it up make something happen. Make make it happen. She was of that yeah that's how she bought my brother and I up to make use your imagination. Get out into the garden and find something the nation in many ways so so because it's so perverse but it said powerful new pictures you grew up with fairies the bottom of your garden yet by Marsha I mean I think so ch- comfort comfort and reassurance from nature and being outside and I think that's where I came from and I think that's why I go walking in. You get ideas. nature's a source of and would you say that that has sort of infused your work with almost kind of pagan spirit that there is a sort of you've say Celtic I wouldn't I wouldn't say I wouldn't know if this is sort of. I wouldn't say there was a Celtics Fan. I don't know I think it should have been night. Lean in May that I think so many stories in senses in Moods and ghosts of ancient ancient landscapes that are inescapable that they they kind of that still living in a I'm living in May yeah because we'll work is so distinctive on every phase of the stuff we in this exhibition. The oldest set the the new stuff. It's so it feels like I love the idea of something coming through. You know that you will just a medium and I think in a way I think that a lot I think that I think the stories images visions regions are living things that exist in the ether and then they use these us to articulate themselves. I think I think a lot of the ideas I've had I you get a vision of something and it is often can come just very very serendipitous -ly like you're out walking like a sale. You'll be reading something and it is not what you're reading that you'll sing. It reminds your something. Something comes through it. It's sort of in the air and then I think mainly you as a person of that to make that give that story life. You'll you'll the conduit. You'll the yeah the point you make about. When you're taking a still sometimes his a gust of wind or something we should you will doing a movie but Mia this just a strange eccentric moment that view is is about being alive. I guess it's just life. I think any photograph if if any photograph if it was how I provision is that that is all I be really disappointed. I think that all the photographs the just seen as mistaken mistake in order them it is something went Rome. Something surprised may someone did something that helped make a kit. Nothing was as I planned it a tool at we had the plan in the organization to be that but something went beyond and made it something that floored me when I looked for the V. Finding and took that photograph it really it exceeded expectations stations so I often think it's not me making that it's something else and now I can only now think that is just visions are waiting to be found in. I'll take elected the fourth dimension the full dimension who who did you consider to be mental when you when you started making images. I think that when I thus I started out as just nobody young assistant there was some really sweet people that the I was small fry. Nothing people like Sarah Jane Whole Sarah Jiang was Sucha support. It was hard that said you have to go to New York to what with. She said he had to go to one of L. Goat which has Silas She was yeah she was and she said you have to go to neocon learn and dependent beginning apprenticeship she was uses she was. I mean many many people. She's very very early. Another young she helped main navigated things but it's so interesting you will you win with Avedon and you'll fighters remotely like yeah. I three of them yeah yeah but I think the I mean it would be a shame if they were because that said will you know Abbott terribly sad glad to repeat the pitches that Adam did but there's a definitely a way of to king you'll subjects six and I copy that from Abidine he had such a a great way of getting performance so a lot of people a photograph photograph that note performance a tool like Margaret Atwood. She's she's not a performer but love fashion and open-mindedness us in a good mood on the day she was very up for playing so I'm equipped with an ability of how to get performance play reacting character play from the time when assisted avalon because he was so good at that so for example I remember we're doing the assault she campaign and the two models Kristen McMenemy Knowledge Almond Almond with dressed in black facade she seats in shoulder pads little mini skirts and Craig White Stiletto Cheese and they came out and I looked to the models as an assistant standing that with the light working with with evidence. How is he going to navigate. How is he going to make these very ordinary. what quite close to see how is he gonNa tell until Richard Avedon photograph and he decided then he looked at them and he said you'll you'll crows you'll buds annual on a branch and you'll fighting because you've both seen one below and then. Najran crashed into the ruffled slaves and made the jackets and they became Tame Black Crows and the camera the tonight cameras on the floor sheeting up and they fought for the one on the studio floor and that's what make the pet so it wasn't about you. Go just to the left. You're stunning. You're sexy Oho. You're you'll fabulous. It was your crow and you'll fighting for one and they even they took off that she's in. They started hitting one another with us to get the the one that wasn't a worm that wasn't abroad that wasn't a crow but it became an avid on pitcher and he did that time and time again that character play and then that's what I now compete ESA. So how does the Tim Walker picture become a Tim Walker picture. what's your equivalent of telling the Girls Two Black Crows on burn which I think is that is that playfulness and I think it's encouraging everyone who I'm working with just to be open to possibilities of mistake. I think it's always been mistakes and the always things the time they come in they. They sound and crazy to do them but no we can't do that. We can't the best place play play. How do they come. Those ideas. Do Dream came to dream They come. They come from the same places that you look at books and film stories. People tell you all incidences notices. You're going about your life or historical facts but they come in the M. Mix so you mix up a historical fact with a contemporary thing you've seen on the straight with a an old painting mixed with them a piece of melodic muscle ingredients the make the recipe I mean the show wonderful things it is as you said it's you'll love letter to the Vienna and their incredible bowl resources that they have here that span millennia and every single creative endeavor. You can think of a human being embarking on when did that relationship ships start because it feels to me. It's very what you were just saying Bat jawing and so many disparate elements to make the images just it feels that that is the this is an essential expression of that this this exhibition avoid nine the vein a be growing up in this country we will come on school trips intone and so he knew it was about but I think that the the the actual will commission from the night work on this project a came from a series of photographs. I did that exhibited in this exhibition based on the garden of Earthly Delights unanmous Bush painting the Vienna Soul photographs taken inspired by that painting and then they thought well you know if you can make those photographs based on the guard Murphy Delights. We've we've had a museum stacked with the most extraordinary desperate eclectic notion humankind's articulation of beatty. Could you go there some much. I mean it goes from a something from Catherine Hamlet teasha to a ring dug up up in in the desert from five thousand. BC The time is so desperate and whether you're looking at pieces stained glass or metal work or an exquisite Asian Hindi storytelling illustration as some much but what the common thread is is it's. It's an articulation of beatty. I think it's like the most sublime. Bt that when you look food in your take them to the cloth workers or storage unit summer Martin Avena and the pillow droll and as a gray folks and it's called a string round they open that and then there's another box inside that in tissue PIPO inside that there's a a black glove that so the embroidery in the glove is so sublime line and so unbelievably beautiful nice that's Elizabeth I writing loves and you're just everything said like like a explosion in your head said of like his extraordinary to thank those gloves in that box belonged don't Elizabeth the first and that's how she would she held onto the reins of the whole in those jobs any look the embroidery and it's just yes he is. It's unbelievably. Beautiful will now each of the rooms in the exhibition. You have chosen objects from the museum's two Million Object Archive and you've built your weld around around it can be as tiny. Here's a snuff box the room. The Room met expands adverse single snuff bones. Is the perfect example yeah. How did you confronted by the so much choice. How did you select the said you based on. What you initially you go to the Vienna new you spend in a year going round anything disconnect everything just really it was such a an extraordinarily narrowly the privilege. I think of the commission and you really want to honor that privilege wholeheartedly and and truthfully and really engaged everything they have and I realized that that was impossible. I the there's no way you can see everything so oh then I just kind of let go a bit relaxed and just sort of delved into celebrity surprising places in the particularly that little snuff books folks comes from a collection that Vienna hold the actually are there was nothing in in that collection that was tool interesting and I should have really not relating to anything anything that I was looking at and then that one it'll magical snuffed books wishes the size of the matchbooks and then when you look at it as a whole world within it is like a magical Gaudin at night time with a prince or Princess Woking Dragon. Can picking flowers that grow on a full name. It's almost too small for me to say Deanna the incredible and that immediately it. I don't know who made the snuff box. I can achieve now. Tell you what year was made assembly nineties right seventeen ninety five but I think just the the explosion when you look at something of that beauty humaid it where it's come from year his that's not the point. The point is whoever made it that articulation of beauty and refinement in skill will and sensitivity and Gross Romanticism touched me it really really touched me an illuminated me and then that illumination as owner need as we needed sort of like yes explosion that goes off new had all you want to do is make response to that as token you you can immediately see this whole landscape grow out in front of you and we know exactly healthy onerous see what I think is extraordinary is that each of those objects inspired a body of work when you from you which you which at and the body of work was something you did editorially annual fashion work so this project is wonderful things project which has been going on for what three years yes. He is actually shake your entire. Output Your Professional. It wasn't just something you were doing on the side it shape shape your entire professional out everything. I mean when you see it here. I think that that to me is obviously I've seen older shoots when you did the magazines things like I D and Vogue. Everybody else set you up for and to see the genesis album. It's this big picture. Here is enthralling rolling. I think is very important to me that the pictures were in the in magazines in culture it today because I think that was something else I want to honor all those historical objects and Magnum very contemporary so even though they published in magazines jeans and if you'll vote in the fascist g much seen some of the pitches but then when you come back and he see they've come from right you say the genesis of that. That's that's where the hall of the Mozzarella's. I think the most poignant room is the room with is he a model thing with yeah and the Baltic Sangram the attack room the I think it has the bucks teenage girls senior girl. May that is the most poignant room for me too. It's and she made that box when in the sixteen sixteen seventy and she before that trinity she's the crossing is treasury books to put COULDA casket it and on the outside the panels embroidered intricate embroidery of Chivalrous Knights Kissing princesses people on hoses is uniforms moths and caterpillars and touching that a fifteen year old girl would Creighton object such. Bt because it was well he was crating. I'm secret secret drools where she could love letters in her jury. Hush secret things have most treasured treasured things and then had a lock on it and it's sort of like it felt like an iphone today the Senate I dare of will that we carry out funds lost lost mine. This morning refounded same Josie. If you're few that we keep it. They are treasure boxes. We keep a photographs on them McKee. You keep messages we we they are our private worlds that is is some potent and energies found that yeah incredibly touching and then you extemporised to James Fences private world old we way you photograph him in the House he grew up in yeah which is where backup quite grim yet by gray and he went in grim and he's China's very beautiful man very romantic figure and he most interesting what was interesting for me was that he feels more beautiful as a woman and then he comes down to London and he transformed himself and he dresses dresses up and he looked goes to the Vienna any looks Lizard Bethan costuming exit looks at fifty could churn he takes that own and becomes his most beautiful self but she's a woman and I think that whole bridge from Tottenham looking at periods of history what people will wearing him going out clubbing dancing with friends in that remmel has friends on the wall they were and then you can see echoes of Cheetah collapse you consume in Elizabeth in Russell. You can see history in the club I've seen in in London with him and his friends and that was the the love letter to the little fifteen year old girl who created her world in sixteen seventeen with her immaculate heartfelt embroidery hair. It's being able to sing again in a contemporary way and that obviously that's super talk. Oh Mum that's identity and self creation and the sort of gender fluidity I guess but but I think throughout all the rooms in wonderful things what you become really aware of is how transformative the power of the imagination said it's not just you being inspired by the object that some people made the object even conceive of the object then you put James Fence in the Boston Garden Mike the like you imagine that that swelled in his head very vivid surreal environment with there are no rules and why he can be well he wants to be. It's his the freedom fame to express himself and would be what he wants to be. which is the the most thrilling point of humanity the honesty to to say what you are is is photography that that's what I want? That's that's what I live foil so that kind of people joined to generally. I see on the wall. He yeah whether it's Tilda swinton will eat well. Oh Beth Ditto yeah in the it's a very strong sense sense of of people who will go wherever you want them to go or debating there and you're taking a picture away. I think that they they inspired me because maybe when I was younger I couldn't go more. I wanted to go. I felt said if chained by expectations or cultural societies some sort of repression I suppose than to see an exist and work in collaborate with the people that are liberated. Thanks very an own that beauty in all. The extremities of beauty is really positive thing on his barring. Thanks I mentioned the Sitwell that little bit is is is that's not the Vivian Lee Wig as from Streetcar named his is that was in the Vienna's archives the wing that Vivien Leigh Warren Street counting disaster and extraordinary story that with the I went to one of the departments here and there was really old object walk to know whether it was sort of an an taxidermy animal can walk out what it was and it was wrapped in neon a neon orange net as well. It's that and that Oh that's Vivian wake that she wore industry named desire and it's yet is the character of `Blanche launch. What's so exciting is discovered the the the original wake maker. Gwen Franklin from nineteen fifty is alive and living in London and she's now in the late eighties and she's going mm to reset the wake for archive as Blanche Dubois and she lives in the Barbican analysis. That's extrordinary story and and then we're going through Cecil Beaton telegrams and he sent to latitude Vivien Leigh's husband Lawrence Levy saying nothing not what was going on Broadway this year in the forties but this is this is young playwright Tennessee Williams. He's ANA this play a streetcar named desire and I think Vivian really should read that script she could she could really enjoy that and so it's interesting that beaten crated. Vivian Lees launch it was him he was the catalyst. I didn't know that now no I didn't but I think it's very interesting on that later manages to mention a streetcar named desire without mentioning Modern Brando which was the reason why electrified Broadway and spelling dealing with these nightmare on Sony humans it is just such a beautiful coming together of a a journey through the Vienna Inn finding a very light you say very sort of shorthand misspelt telegram to Laurence Olivier the get persuading Finley to depart and then there's the wake and then that's the book that I read at School. We had to read that in English Street. Crime dissolves was the text we read so I was always fascinated by lange. She held such she such pity related to her at a very young age lizard questions ask right there with the WIG that becomes part of your story the WIG last year the the lead from Cecil Beaton to my dear Larry and retelling stories like this whole this something else show that reacquainting people people with the power of imagination but also educating them in a way and this is the world is infinite. You know that that that that you walk around that shower showers this so much to take on. Do you feel a sense of mission in a way that I was thinking of. This is a legacy project. We've done it so long on. You've you've intertwined your story and the story so tightly in the show that it's kind of it stands there is a body of work that will that it will exist amongst this museum. Does I think I I really had any future projection. I didn't really think about I think I really just enjoyed the the thrill of the resource of the van a and finding things really surprised me and and really using it intensely going to the library going down to two corridor oft corridor after corridor of back departments looking at objects in things and just finally to this infinite infinite objects beatty and it just it just goes on and on and it's just I think that the story of bt not the story of the decorative arts is just an ongoing living thing of such gauguin chew in proportion ocean. It's like a bomb like a medicine such an important medicine than to to be here in this enormous museum and see associate existing as an infinite enormous Utopian beautiful vision. I think is fundamental abyss romantic theory that the power of UC lies in its transient you feel in a way you will counteracting that by giving these things a permanent beyond. I mean finding Vivian these for example but there are other things is sort of everything isn't grand their humble things things as well Do you feel that you do you feel that you that you're bringing kind of permanence to these objects by making them into some bite by by on is like an Alchemy that you perform. You know. You're making them into something else. Nothing that thing that just that all the objects in in the show off just things have really touched me and they might not touch people in in the same way I think the Vienna holds things some many things that would food food touch other people. I think I think that just pus. Naptha me that things that have really emmys me illuminated me me floored me in that. Bt I think I think that yeah what about the idea of the transient sobriety though you you fight of your your job job years and he has to fed across extremely beautiful people looking extremely beautiful and extremely beautiful clouds in glorious against glorious backdrops a you this is sort of melancholy and aetna way because all things must pass and and actually melancholy in Cali is something that I rather enjoy in your work. I think it's so interesting. He said I think that by virtue of clicking the the cable release on a camera that is a melancholic sound to me because you'll seeing you someone or something actors optimum beauty whether that Sicel Tiv- Garden and has blit at four o'clock in the afternoon in the APP sleep the most exquisite light and you take the picture and you know that the seasons seasons changing in someone's leaving ultimate coming and he's you're taking a picture of a girl so unbelievably other worldly wildly beautiful. You know that that will change. There is as a photographer. I'm hyper aware of my Komo Tallahassee. I think now I'm valuable because of the transients because you take pictures of things and you take pitches of houses in than they crumble jumble. Will they get a restored and then whenever stole they lose their soul yet. I think there is a definite melancholy Tokar face inescapable is an inescapable Memento Mori inescapable take the thick you click of the cameras and then you like that goes the optimum time that goes the BT's get that sets down then when you have a photograph on that Ah Tutti representation of something that was sublime and do you feel as such a perfect place to stop but I have to ask you. Do you feel whether there's a slight that spirit of defiance in your latest weapon I think beauty I think and I the moment the little death patty more of the chemically is in end and but then ends with followed by beginnings and I think that being melancholic back and sad about losing something is done engage that for too long because you know that girl that was was ready beat full so when she was in twenties she can be even more beautiful when she's in her seventies and I think that's something I've really you come to recognize is that beauty comes back in waves seasons. Come back some comes back. Does Ashley will be to winter yeah. Beauty comes back was willing and as you leave wonderful all things the very last image is the book with a bed comment about new beginnings so there's a whole whole other world waiting for you. Yeah yeah think so. Thanks thank you ten. Thanks to thank you very much. If you enjoyed this conversation you might also be interested in joining us. 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Vienna bt Margaret Atwood Lee McQueen Tim Walker London David Diaper Lynch Richard Avedon Vivian Beth Ditto Ashley Rooms Elizabeth I Tim Kohl tim blanks Abbott Tim Walkers Victoria