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This episode features: -Do you need 10,000 hours of practice to be an expert? -What is the connection between creativity and mental illness -Can drugs make you more creative? -Can electrically stimulating your brain make you more creative? -Are smarter people more creative? -How do psychologists measure creativity -Which personality trait predicts creativity -Techniques for enhancing creativity -References- Apply Psychology: Chi, R. P., & Snyder, A. W. (2012). Brain stimulation enables the solution of an inherently difficult problem. Neuroscience letters, 515(2), 121-124. DeYoung, C. G., Flanders, J. L., & Peterson, J. B. (2008). Cognitive abilities involved in insight problem solving: An individual differences model. Creativity Research Journal, 20(3), 278-290. Kaufman, S. B., & Gregoire, C. (2016). Wired to create: Unraveling the mysteries of the creative mind. Penguin. Simonton, D. K. (1988). Scientific genius: A psychology of science. Cambridge University Press. Stanley, K. O., & Lehman, J. (2015). Why greatness cannot be planned: The myth of the objective. Springer. Nine dot problem Want Some Creativity? Crank-up the Constraints Deep Habits: Think Hard Outside The Office Deep Habits: Three Tips for Taming Undecidable Tasks Check This Rec: Plomin, R. (2018). Blueprint: How DNA makes us who we are. MIT Press.
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53: The Beautiful Ones
Today's show is sponsored by talks base the online therapy company that lets you message a licensed therapist from anywhere at anytime, say licensed therapist because when you send me messages on Instagram, I am shooting from the hip. You can be matched with the perfect their best for you for a fraction of the price of traditional therapy. Go to talk space dot com slash TEFA and use the cotija fade get forty, five dollars off your first month and support. The show that's talks based dot com. Slash TEFA code TEFA. Today's show is also brought to you by calm the app that helps over thirty five million people including several who live in my household. Go to sleep. Every night are also just chill imeditate, and get some quiet time head to calm dot com slash. Thanks and you'll get twenty five percent off aecom premium subscription. That is a great deal. That hours of meditations sleep stories, relaxing, music, and more get started today at c. a. l. dot com slash. Thanks and then get to sleep. I'm Nora mcnerney and this is terrible. Thanks for asking. And this is g g. Yes, thank you for having mimic cited. Gee-gee is a person who does things who goes to things like me. I'm a person who goes to bed early every night. That's a place right? Gee-gee is everywhere. If you go out in Minneapolis to first avenue to the drag brunches to any concert, you're gonna see g g I stand out and my crowd of friends and pretty much anywhere because I'm tall loud, outspoken, black woman, and I really, really, really embrace every prior to me like I want I wanted to be seen. So one day a few years ago, gee-gee was at a concert. It's this big yearly event here. Minneapolis called rock the garden. It's produced with our sister station. The. Which you can stream online, too great, indie music station. Anyways, it's big and loud. Like concerts usually are an yawn and my faith. I thought crack and I noticed swelling on his side of my face before, but I thought maybe my face was just getting back. Maybe I was gaining. And so I- yawned and I heard a crap now that's weird and it didn't hurt, but it was also weird to hear crack like that at like a concert or you're just, I all I did was yawn now it's just a yawn and a crack. But of course it's not just yawn and a crack. It's a warning sign. G. g is the Queen of Minneapolis, Twitter, that is a thing we have here in Minneapolis. Twitter is like a small town within Minneapolis where everyone knows each other. I really don't know if that exists in other places, but it's very real here and g g or OEM GI get it though. M g g it's a, it's a good handle g. g. is a centerpiece of that seem, and that's actually pretty incredible thing because gee-gee isn't from here. She was born in raised in Atlanta, which may be doesn't seem like a big deal, but Minneapolis is a hard place to move to for kind of notorious for it actually for being a place that has Minnesota nice, which basically means will be nice to you. But we made all of our friends in middle school or high school, and that's enough for us. G. g. though moved here after college, and if you follow her on social media, you can see she did not have a hard time making friends. If you follow her on social media, you'll see her hot takes pop culture and politics, and you will see her. You'll see tons of photos of her most of them taken by her friend, Darren. Yeah, I love the ones where I'm looking off to the side like profile shots because feeling I have a nice profile. I love photos where they're very, like casual, like I'm not really posing. I'm just being me, I'd love wind. We're at the events that we do together like or various stuff around the cities, and he'll need the test the light. And I'll just, you know, he'll cheesy take a photo and it'll be very casual photo of me just standing there and I'll have my phone in my hand. I'm not expecting it. He just needs to test the light and he's just such a great Bataga for that. You know, it was just. Very natural for him to like catch me like in as me as you know how I. How I wanna be like portrayed and stuff. I mean, it makes me feel good. There are lots of voters of GT, Robin, all over town. Photos that are posed photos that are candid photos that are all beautifully lead photos that are just beautiful. You may know her face, but you would not know the story of her face. You may see photos, but you would not know why there are so many you may think, oh, this, this lady loves herself or even mean little full of herself. It's my Minnesota. My accent. But you wouldn't know my loving herself and loving how she looks is so meaningful to her. So being at that concert, hearing that crack, that's not the first time. The has felt something in her face. Back in middle school, she'd had a little cyst removed from her jaw, and it wasn't a big deal. They just scooped it out that is in Avakian of kind of gross image. But I said it. Would g remembers about that cyst and it's scooping is that her mom was so nervous, but middle school gee-gee wasn't nervous. Middle school gee-gee was concerned about the important stuff. You know when the minute he said, he's like, you know, we don't want you in p. because we don't want to fly out your face and I'm thinking like clue them like balls by my face. You know, there goes your social life. Yes, I'm like. I'm like, oh my God, I get to skip be. This is great. I don't have to be have a free period. What? And so you know, it was on one hundred thinking this isn't. Gun at that my life on the other hand, you're like, wow, I actually have this thing in my in my face. So it was very about small native, scooped it out. See they scooped it out. Keep saying it. Would g g had was called an Amelia blessed Doma. It's a benign tumor, which means it's not cancer. How much had that surgery, you know, impacted your day-today life. Never. It never loved us that that was the whole thing. There is nothing like visible that showed that that happened. It was literally cut open and my jaw scooped it out, and that was it. So for a while until she was almost done with college, that was it. That was it until g started to notice some job pain. It hurt like Tuesday would. So I would take a little IB profane but it didn't hurt. It didn't eight like, oh, I need help right now. It never. It wasn't like this painful thing. It was kind of like there. It was an annoyance more than anything. What annoyed me most what actually got me to the doctor was the fact that it was growing so big and it looked like a softball look ahead, a giant, like what do you call those things? Job breaker in my mouth at all times. If you're thinking, how did you not notice a job breaker in your mouth? I mean, college is a real special time, isn't it? I mean, I had mono for so long that by liver most field and I did not notice so g does notice the job breaker, but she's in college. So she just works with it. Like I knew my angles, like when I took photos of my girlfriends, I, you know, I knew I didn't like to eat on that side of my faith because it would hurt a little bit. I knew to stay away from crunchier foods because. I didn't like the way it fell on that side of my mouth. Judy does eventually go to her doctor and he sends her to a specialist and that specialist says to her, hey, remember that Amelia bless dome for middle school. It's back. That's what the job breaker is. By the way, it's that Amelia bless Joma which is so big that the doctor is surprised that g g can even talk. And this time it's not going to be as simple as it was the first time back when they just scooped it out. This solution is going to be more intense. The doctor starts telling her, okay, so we're going to have to remove some of your teeth on the bottom because we're basically taking out that whole tumor that entire part of your jaw, and we're going to replace it with your fibula, make you a brand new job, and I'm thinking, okay, so this is going to be a couple of surgeries, no one surgery. So the doctor was going to remove a part of Jiji's jaw, and then use a part of her fibula which is your shinbone to make anew John. That is not just a big surgery. That's also a big recovery. I was going to be in the hospital two weeks. I was going to be on a medically induced coma for a few days after the removal. I, I didn't think of all the. Things I was just like, yeah, I'm just going to get this done. Gee, just wanted to get it over with. She just wanted the tumor out so she could move on with her life. The surgery was fourteen hours long. And when g g woke up from the medically induced coma, her family was there. And so was her new face. There was a mere in there by the think and I could see my face and I didn't look like me. I was swollen. I look like that kid from the MAC that mask movie was share. I, I was like, so I and you know, like of course, I care about how I look. I mean, I was like, you know, around twenty one. So I, I mean, the bone new bone that was in my face that made they made me a new job with settling in the teeth. You really can tell like, I didn't have teeth. Like right now. I still don't have those teeth. Gee-gee was twenty one now that the surgery was over in the tumor was out. She just wanted to get on with her life. She wanted to finish school, get a job and be a grownup already. So she told her doctors, speed it all up all the physical therapy, the emotional therapy, all of it for face and for her leg which is still healing. Gee-gee quickly went from a Walker to a cane, but not just any king. It was leopard print of though happy. I use a cane for a little bit and I felt good and my rehab, I did it and got it done. So when I graduated in twenty eleven I. Accepted a job up here in Minneapolis. I knew I was gonna like be like a star because like within the first two weeks there I got my first promotion and that felt good because my mom was like, I can't g are you sure it's so cold up there and see that as volume into that dome. And as I mean, my mom is just no. And then when I got here and I'm like, literally crying walk into a bus dog, then I realized I shouldn't have been. So you know like that you're probably add a bus stop wearing like cute shoes and like a fashion jacket, like you're like, oh, this is like a fall known like Minnesota's no place to be cute at winter relate. Buckling. Okay. Buckland your snowsuit like Amish. When you go to uptown like these girls and you're like, put your pants back on you are outside. It is not. This is not a city to try to let go to a club address ever the okay, that's hilarious. I learned very quick to keep my key that my death and then go to work and my booth GT worked in customer service at a big retailer here in Minneapolis, and she was really good at her job. I mean, obviously she was promoted after two weeks and she was really good at Minneapolis. She made friends and built a following here on social media. She was offered another job with more responsibility and she took it. And I remember that day very Bentley because it has many corn dogs, and I felt really good about that day at lunch because we have many corn grey day, and I gave him my two. Gee-gee was basically the black Mary Tyler Moore, throwing her beret in the air. She made it after all. I'm doing great and feeling good. I'm like, you mentioned Queen of new. I'm having a great Amore like work life balance, and I'm maybe to do what I want to the concerts. I wanna go go to festivals and you. I wanna be volunteer where I wanna be. I'm able to, you know, put my energy into a lot of things, and that don't just concern work g. g. as a glamorous woman, just great makeup again, follow her for all the fine chin covers at marshalls, TJ Maxx, amazing hair outfits that are always on point. I love experimenting with my style and my hair. I closed make cesary my mak- nails, any kind of expression. I love thinking outside the box of what I want to be high want to perceive me. You notice g g you don't notice her scars right away. But she's aware of them the scar on my base healed nicely, and it is visible behind my ear and undermine net visible. I would get a lot of questions about it because at the time it has shorter hair and I were behind my ear. I was very self conscious about the scar on my lay. It is huge. I never wore shorts or skirts addresses for that reason. So that outdoor concert four years had passed since g got out of college since her last surgery when g. g. felt that crack in her face, she knew it wasn't good, and she's a grownup grownups who has been through two facial surgeries. So she knows that the responsible thing to do is to go see a doctor right away. She goes to an ENT here. Minneapolis who has all her records, and he takes a look. You know, I've read about your history and everything, and I, you know, would like to do a biopsy if you don't mind. And it wasn't like a biopsy where they had the check me and I had to have actual surgery biopsy. He just did it in the room and got a sample and everything. They cut open where my surgery was before, got a few samples right up in there and and my lower jaw area, and I felt good about it. You know? Because nobody's saying anything different, they're not calling it anything because they don't know so far. No big deal. G. g goes back week later and he says, GD, you know, I do want to confirm for you it. It is your meal blessed Doma it is. It has come back and it's more aggressive than it was before. And I was like, I'm. You're wrong because they took that out. So redo the tests got to be something else, and he was, I know this is a very, very aggressive form. He was like, it's literally behind your eye. He was like, it's literally eating away at that side of the face. It's behind your eyes behind your nose. So four years after I moved here, I gone on with my life for four years, like this new life in Minneapolis and and here it was again, I, it was hard to in the moment you're thinking, oh, why is it that you know, in my head, I'm thinking. Why couldn't they get it all in the way it was explained to me, they took what they could see, you know, in these little cells, they leave behind Suber aggressive and they can be, you can't get all of them all the time. Those cells had grown and multiplied, and we're now as the doctor put it eating Jiji's face. What would that tumor have done the second time if it had continued to grow, it would've gone behind my eyes and I could have been blind behind my eye behind my left eye. So when they did the surgery, they were like, yeah, you know if we go so far in, you might be blind on that side. And I was like, okay, whatever. I got another. I. She sounds cool here casual, not too worried, but I mean when someone tells you that your entire face is being eaten by a tumor, a tumor that could have blinded you or kill you. I actually worried about this tumor every single day. This time mines -iety was piqued. You know what I mean? Like I was like, it's back again. What if this doesn't work? Or what? If it comes back and you know, they call it a mutation. What if they come back and mutate as cancer, and then it kills me or what if it takes over the right side of my face and I have damage over there and just don't be walking around like with have a faith, you know. After big moments like this, when you think the world should stop. It doesn't. There's always something mundane that you have to do like go get gas up milk go to work, which is where g g has to go the day after finding out that a tumor she thought was gone forever is now back and bigger than ever. G g had to sit down at her same desk, answer the phone and help people with their computer problems. Okay. Well, may I log onto your computer with you and see what's going on, you know, and as manly yelling at me about like the photos app and I'm like, literally, like I just was like, all right. All right. Hold on. I just transferred him. And I like when I'm FaceTime on my boss now they look, I, I can't do this like I can't talk to these people about their their iphones or whatever while I'm dealing with like a tumor in my face and she was like, excuse me what? And I was like, yeah. I'm not feeling very well. I had a panic attack the other day, and I'm probably going to snap on a customer in a minute. So I'm going to take a half day by. Gee, gees job offered amazing benefits. So she took medical leave to prepare for her surgery because this was her third time, and she knew just how serious it was. There were a lot more what ifs. This time, though the size and location of the tumor made this surgery even bigger than the others. They were talking about how they were going to do the surgery and they're like, are going to have to shave side your left side of your your head. Cut from mare. Do another cut under your jaw again. And so I'd be less hat faith and they've taken off and I'd be like, that's really cool and all. But I mean, you mean you're gone shave my head like him. He, you know, really is really awful. Be. Terrible. Thanks for asking. Get support from stitch, fix, stitch fix is an online personal styling service that finds delivers closed shoes and accessories to fit your Bod budget and your lifestyle. I'm only keeping things that I'm like, hell yes on and that really wasn't a big deal. Open the box, tried everything on liked it all, but was not passionately romantically in love with it. I put it back in the little thing and then I just mailed it back and it didn't get charged for the stuff. I didn't keep an, you know, I got to leave detailed feedback about what I did and did not love about the pieces and next month, my styles just start all over. So there's no subscription required consign up to receive scheduled shipments or get your fix whenever you want. The styling feet is only twenty dollars, which is applied towards anything you keep from your shipment. So get started now at stitch, fix com slash TEFA and you'll get an extra twenty five percent off. When you keep all the items in your box that stitch fixed com slash TEFA to get started today, stitch fixed com slash TEFA. Terrible things for asking. Also get support from redwing heritage. Redwing heritage has been making beautiful handcrafted boots, the beautiful river valley of redwing Minnesota for over a hundred years. Fun fact bummy I have a lot of anxiety is one of them is about recycling a look at a box of my kids hers and be like, wow, they'll be still be sitting in a landfill hundred years from now taking up space. Never decomposing redwing heritage. Boots are not meant to be disposable. I used to be person who had by trend be things. Maybe look how cheap it is such a deal that I bought two. I don't do that Reverend heritage boots. The really meant to last for like ever their classic. So no matter what the current trends are, and I wouldn't know because I'm not very cool. They stand the test of time. It's happening right now. Thirty percent off your purchase with code TEFA thirty at redwing heritage dot com. Redman heritage. Never does sales, never, but the offers good until December twenty fifth. So go check out redwing heritage, men's and women's. They got excess res on redwing heritage dot com and enter TEFA thirty to get thirty percent off until December twenty fifth deal alert over. Can I tell you about a podcast that I really love it's called heavyweight. It's hosted by Jonathan Goldstein over Gimblett Jonathan Goldstein where you know, he's just one of those people whose voice, you know voices like a hug. Anyways, he talks to them about basically their biggest regrets or something weighing on them, right, get it heavyweight, just sort of work through it in the way that Jonathan Goldstein does very well which is humorously and kindly and really dryly. So the new season started, I listened to it about six minutes after came out. It's so funny. I don't wanna cues him of anything, but I had the idea for heavyweight myself. I pitched it to Hans when it was pitching TTF ADA Hans and hunt said that it was a bad idea. So in Honda's face, he was wrong because Jonathan Goldstein had the same idea and it's a head podcast, moral, the story, what is Hans? No second moral, that story, you should go listen to. Heavyweight. It's available. If you're listening to this, you know how to get hot cast. So go find heavyweight. And we're back. It's scary medically to know that somebody is going to remove half your face to get to a tumor. And it's scary also. Superficially, I don't mean that too shallow concern how you look. I mean, I mean that the concern about how you will look is very real and very valid. What do you do when you might lose your face as you know it before the surgery? I said, I'm taking a ton of pitches myself now because I don't know what I'm gonna look like after I've seen many of these photos, they're all so beautiful. Gee-gee looks regal stately even when the setting is just a grimy music venue in downtown Minneapolis. She gazes directly at the camera. She owns it. And then it's time gee-gee goes home to Georgia to her mother, Beverly, and her aunts and uncles. She gets the hospital gown. The head shave, the whole thing. She goes under and twenty four hours later. She's back in her hospital bed, seeing myself in the mirror in the in the hospital. The big one, what I could finally turn my body toward it. They were getting me up to walk around. And so I wasn't like confined to the bed all day. And I looked up and I saw myself and I saw my I was completely swollen, shut my right. My left. I, I could see my entire lip was completely swollen because one of the incisions went through my lip, the side of my nose was completely flared. It was red because they cut alongside of my nose. My job was it literally look worse than when I had the abscess in the tomb. Or in there before because it was so swollen from the trauma, and then my chest late where my train was, there was still a hole there. That's like, you know, when these tracheotomy I honestly didn't know what they meant. I was like, okay, whatever. Like whatever you gotta do this out of my face. I'm fine. But like I didn't know literally that win thing like I didn't connect for me and they always had to keep putting the the little toot back in my nose. You know my feeding tube because I couldn't eat for weeks either. So that was really traumatic to see like that actual hold there and it like seeing all that I kept thinking, how am I gonna look normal again? Because this looks like, you know, it was really tough to see that, but I. It it was awful. It was not a good feeling that all I did not feel beautiful at didn't feel good because it I, I was hurting. But then on top of that, I felt like I looked terrible and I remember crying and I couldn't catch my breath when I was crying because I had that trait. So it was like it was really awful. And I felt like that for a very long time. So here's the thing you're supposed to be happy to just have your health. You're supposed to be happy to be alive. You're supposed to be happy that someone was able to treat you and that it wasn't cancer and that you will live. You're not in a moment like this supposed to care about how you look. But why is that. For months GD stayed at her mother's house, trying to heal, trying to hide away from the world. What were your days like guys. It was like, I get up. I wouldn't therapy once a week, and then I had physical therapy once a week, and then I come home it literally all day. I would just sit in my bed maybe read beyond on the internet on tumbler or something. Destruct- myself. Watch TV all day. I would be shopping like all my mom was like, what are you? Do? You literally are not working right now? What what. I just, you know, keep myself occupied with things. They weren't healthy coping mechanisms at all. Nothing I was doing was I mean, I considered it self care. Everybody really wasn't. It was really destructive. It wasn't good. They were like stepping on eggshells around me because I was a mess. And I feel like I had to get out of that situation because it wasn't helping me or them for me to keep doing that. And while it's nice to have my support system, I don't feel be under my mom's wing and having her baby me and my aunt, my uncles and my grandpa baby me was hoping to get anything done. You know, Beverly really disagree with this. She knows. I love my mom film mice. But I mean, I've told you this before it was getting way like it was getting Barry Green gardens and they're like, it was my mom. I love it at death, but we are not meant to live together like that. The entire time gee-gee is on medical leave. She's living in Georgia and still paying rent on her apartment in Minneapolis. Tells her mom one day. She's going back to Minneapolis to check on her apartment. She did not want me coming here at all. She was very against it, but she led me home. Back in Minneapolis gee-gee does check on her apartment. She also sees her friends and she's beyond say, not like one on one in a transformative moment, but in a transformative moment in a stadium with tens of thousands of other fans for the first time in a long time, gee-gee was back in her city back in her element doing what she always did before a big show getting ready. I remember feeling really good. I remember feeling like myself, I remember putting so much thought and energy into what I was wearing. What did you wear? I wore the prettiest dress. It was just a black dress, and then I made myself. I bought a flower crown from Clair's and some plastic, lemons and glued glued lemons on the crown. It was almost like a wasn't sick. It was like. Being like myself again, we did what we always did. I felt good like that night was an incredible night for me. It made me feel like myself. It felt good. Even if g g was still recovering from that surgery, even if she had new scars and new pains. I remember like looking at myself in the mirror and I was still very swollen, obviously still getting over things, but I just at felt like. This was life. And honestly, all these scars that had on my face and all this, all the swelling and everything that was. I mean, all that was just like symbolism late macer vibrating. And so then when we got to the show, I knew the prince cover and it was the the beautiful ones. And so. It was kind of great and it made me, and that's also one of those songs that also makes me feel like really good. It's really, you know, sad, stick love song, but it makes you feel really good. Because you be like so much in love with yourself that you are love sick. The story does not end with the onset beyond as a part of the story as she always should be. I had no idea what she had been through or gone through until she told me was sometime when my husband Aaron had brain cancer, he had had two brain surgeries to take his brain tumor out and the scary time for me. I can't remember precisely what she said, but it was something about how she had also had a tumor, but it wasn't as big a deal because it wasn't cancer. But like yes, it is a big deal. You've talked on the show before about comparison and how it is useless intends to just rob us of our humanity. About how the way of downplaying what has happened to us, and it's weird and gross, and also we all do it. And so does g g on the one hand, you'll hear her say, things like I was being Brad, and then you'll hear her say, GD you're healthy and you're very privileged, and you're very lucky and she's all of the above. I mean that loving more than one thing can be true and it is. It always is. It's true. That is lucky. She's lucky that are tumors were benign in that cancerous that she had great medical care that she lived and that she's happy about that. And it's true that she has suffered and will likely suffer again that tumor one that always needs a few cells behind can come back. And even if it doesn't turn into a tumor. Again, she still lives with the effects of those first three surgeries. What will be the long term effects of having Emil blessed Oma? Well, I have no feeling on the left side of might be, I won't get that, but that's just nerve damage permanently. If it comes back again and hits another nerve, if they remove it, I could essentially lose all that feeling. You know. Those things that sound superficial talking about beauty things like lip Villers or Bo tocks. They're usually referred to as cosmetic procedures. They aren't actually just 'cause medic. For g g they're things that she needs the Villers make my lip not caved in the Bota to kind of freeze the nerves, so they kind of stay in place them make my lip not lewd droop also the give me the muscle relaxer the helped me fleet because I can't sleep ever at night. I can't sleep on one side. Can't sleep on the other. I can't relax. I have chronic pain tightness in my face all the time. I am, you know, sick at the drop of hat. Like I'll be having a great Saturday taken that we got from nap, excruciating pain and as a pain, I can't describe and then I'll have to cancel plans and I and then. I just. It's just odd and it and it's not consistent. That's the main thing. It's true that g loves makeup and glam, but she isn't ashamed of her scars. I don't go out of my way to cover them. I don't color correct. You can still see my scars through my makeup. I never an concealing them, but. I do love like the one I mentioned about my Cubans, Bo. I do have a little scar there. I put a little highlight their bring attention to it. The gonna be there forever. I'm never going to have surgery to remove them for all the surgeries that I have had to smooth things out the cosmetic ones anyway, to smooth things out to inject essentially, what is pilasters into my lips. And both talks here in there little pokes prods or whatever for all those cousin medic surgeries that I've had. I never ever ever have even considered. Having the scar removed or the scar hidden or something. Again, anyone who wouldn't be sad about their face being taken apart and sewn back together is lying like absolutely lying. Of course, that would make you sad because our faces are important. So is internal beauty, yes. But also we are still a society that prizes external beauty. I mean people magazine is not making an issue called the fifty most beautiful people on the inside. An I participate in the beauty, Connie. I love it. I love my hair extensions, eyelash extensions. I love makeup tutorials on YouTube. I also realise that talking about beauty and beauty standards really does not mean a lot coming from a tall, thin, white woman with a reasonably attractive face. But beauty standards are real and they do impact women who aren't tall than white women differently. I think that we're so conditioned, they hate ourselves. Everybody like know, especially like with like with young women of color, especially young black women. We're conditioned ourselves like we're told nobody loves us or, you know, just little systematic things that happened, like do our childhood. You know, even from like the little thing, like dolls, like Little Brown dolls, nobody gets those you wanna white one because they're pretty beautiful. Well, what's wrong with the block one. You know what I mean? They're conditioning us as a kid. And so I feel like it's really like a revolutionary at two like flat out, say, I love myself, no matter how I look. He know I might not be this size. I might not look this way I have. Laws and all, and I still love myself. A fun fact about g is that her name isn't really g g. G g g g is nickname when she was born in Atlanta in the mid eighties, her mother named her forecasts. It's what nearly every mother thinks about their child. I say nearly because if you ask me both the kids who came out of me. Knock gorgeous, looked like weird worms for a while. But he was gorgeous. So her mother Beverly made that her official name right there on the birth certificate. Gorgeous is kind of name that comes with pressure. Right? It feels like one of those names that you're required to grow into, like being named honor or charity for prudence. In gorgeous grew into that, Nate not just like, oh, she looks good, gorgeous good job, but also that she knows she looks good because g g loves herself and to me, that is very rare and very RAD, and I'm here for it because self love is the one that is so often the hardest to come by. And then if you do come by it, it's very easily dismissed or derided already. I mean a better not be vanity. Is it narcissism? We can love ourselves. But if we love our looks, we somehow become suspect. We're not supposed to be too concerned with what we look like or to pleased with what we look like. Lest we crossed that line than invisible, ever moving line. And says that she loves herself and she loves what she looks like. That's not small or superficial or silly. That's a huge light revolutionary at people. It's twenty eighteen. You would think. It's okay for someone that stay that and people not be so. Wow, congratulations. Are you serious right now? Like why is this such a mind? Fuck like I love myself. I'm sorry. Like I don't need your approval to do that. You know, I've done it myself. So. I'm Nora mcnerney, and this has been terrible. Thanks for asking. And thanks for listening. I gotta say that's pretty cool view. Our senior producer is Hans byu too. Senior producer is Hans Buteau, but one of Buteau had a YouTube. Would it be the Hans beauty you time? We'll tell. Our assistant producer is Marcel Malecki boo. He don't have any jokes about him yet, but they're coming. Our project manager is Hannah. Mikhak Raas. Our intern is Emma Martin's. She fetched me a great Cup of tea and giving her the full intern experience k. Cup of tea, not too hot, not to cool. What does this poured it out on her. What is this called? This t dirty water. Meghan Oglesby was a wonderful help with this episode. So thank you, Meghan. I got a book recommendation for you to coordinate with this episode. Something that I do when I remember to how about kind of an oldie, but very good. He it's called autobiography of face by Lucy Greeley. It's really, really excellent. You can follow g g at OEM g I g I on Twitter and Instagram. Theme music is by dropper. Wilson of just post bellum. We are production of APM. Concussion. Literally Frau for APM eight PM the association. Purple. Giving more starts with none. None. What? What would start with that. The sociation of Purba mongooses. Among us a snake, by the way it eat snakes, thought it was a snake. Well, more about that later, we are production of APM American public media, good job nor up.
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Mac Power Users 469: Running a Business with G Suite
Mac Powell user is episode four hundred sixty nine running a business with G suite. Hello, everyone is David Sparkes along with my pal Stephen Hackett. Hello, steven. Hey, david. How are you today? Good. We as apple users are going into the world of Google for an episode. I have my multicolored hat, the, you know. You know, they give new Google IRS. I'm ready to go. Yeah. I mean, why not well, you know, we've been hearing from a lot of listeners that use Google lot. And they're asking us. How does it really fit in? There's a lot of listeners who are afraid of Google and without we'd cover that a little bit. I use pieces of the Google suite for a lot of the things I do both as a lawyer. And as a geek, and you guys use Google a lot for the background running of your your podcast network. Yeah. Really FM runs on G suite. We we can talk with that. And details would go along. But it's really like court how we work to stay in and day out. So we there's a lot of lot to cover. We're going to cover from the basics to the advanced. And explain what we do and what we don't do with the G suite. And it certainly is an option for an apple user, just because using apple gear doesn't mean that you're locked out or or shouldn't necessarily be using its long as you do that the best information. Sure. And I think that's a big a big feature. Of these sort of online services. There's a lot of positives. But one of them is like to a degree you can use whatever hardware or like browser you want sometimes things work better one place or another. But in my tire company runs on sweet. And do it with an iphone and ipad and a MAC like there's no Chromebook incite here. It's really handy to kind of mix and match solutions. We were talking to Christina last week about the old, you know, forum wars between windows and MAC, and I feel like in addition to the stuff we said last week another reason why that is less relevant is because it's not like the old days where the software was exclusive to each platform so much of it as web based now that it doesn't matter. What device you're using? You can get access to these tools. And of course, Google is in a lot of ways the granddaddy of the web app, and yeah, it's sort of invented it almost and and they are usually the leader on the curve in terms of innovation and and new. Tools. I mean, the other companies do follow up we're gonna cover that in a show the way like word and pages. For instance, are trying to knock on the door of the stuff Google docs us, but, you know, Google always the first one there because that is the primary focus the company. Yeah. And there are a lot of advantages to that. Right. If you think about using an online service versus say a server in the hall closet in your office like you said you can get to those from anywhere. But one thing I really like is. It's like just fewer local files to lose or to back up as well. Right. Google Drive in these options have export options. We can talk about where you can go in and download all the data in your account, but it being safe and sound, and you know, a big companies big data center is more secure from a perspective of data loss than just being on my laptop that you know, I may lose going through the airport. You know, I, you know, I talked to a lot of lawyers about technology and the. In fact, just later this month when we have our live event, I'm going to be at the tech show in Chicago. So if you're there say, hi, but the one of the things I always get cornered on as you're like, how can you put anything in the cloud that's unsafe as a lawyer? They always telling you this. And then I say, well, where are your files, and they'll say, well, it's on my server. Yes. Okay. Where's your server? Oh, it's in the closet, my office, and what server or are you running? And so often it's like an old version of Microsoft server software. You know, it's not the most current and say, well, how often do you have someone there guarding that server checking for software hacks or people knocking on the door. Well, my guy comes once a month, and he checks the server, you know, I'm like, well is that server connected. The internet will. Yes, it is. I mean, the when you get down to it a lot of times, not always I mean, there's certainly people that have their own servers that are very locked down. But quite often a lot of these people that think that they're safer because they have their own server are actually. A bit more risk because they're running all software. Maybe not all the security patches. There's not maybe there's a dedicated IT person, but really not a dedicated security person. And they don't even realize how often the bad guys are knocking at the door on that server to get into that data. Right. And you've got like heart. It's something as simple as hardware reliability or. Things like power networking things that in an office. You don't have a scale the way you do in a in a big cloud providers. Data centre rocket would take an asteroid hitting a data center to bring some of these down at this point. They ever done the power we networking physical security like in my past life, doing IT stuff. I went into couple data centers, and you wouldn't believe the security even to get into like a rinky Dink like rent some space data center that a local Telkom may use somebody's like Google or Mark Salter. Apple it's it's almost like top secret clearance type stuff to get into your data is going to be safe there in a way that it just it's difficult to replicate. If you're doing it on your own. I was even talking to a MAC developer recently who does say, you know, sinks, data for some of its customers, and they use the servers locked in cages and guarded buildings. And, you know, just like, whereas the server in your office, the, you know, every. Day the cleaner goes through that room. You know? I mean, how many people have keys that can get them physical access to that server. In addition to all the threats out from the internet. So I guess we're we're probably was shooting dead horse or beating a dead or since. But the, you know, you you get a cloud service and the initial where the initial thought especially years ago, it'd be all that's not safe. That's not necessarily the case anymore may actually even be safer, depending on what you've done. I think the other big benefit is the collaboration angle if you think about this old model of having a Microsoft server in the closet, and you got a bunch of word and excel files on it. You have collaboration of the sense that I can open a document, and then I can save it to the server, and then you can open it, you know, the next day and see what I've done but collaboration since that. I think about it is real time that you, and I working on a document together. And and that is something that cloud providers or sort of uniquely suited to doing because it's it's not a single document. It's it's a document within a web app. And so like right now you and I are looking at the same Google doc, and we can move things around and change things. All at the same time. There you know, sort of that the passing of the file back and forth on the server doesn't give you that flexibility. I it's great if you're working in a team to the hey, let's just look at this. You know, two o'clock on Tuesday together, we different parts of the world and do our job or in the past. That's it. You're emailing afoul back and forth. You're saving it back and forth, and that can lead to errors and can lead to confusion and collaboration for me is key and all of this. And I can just sit down and work on something with somebody else wherever they are. I would argue that as almost the number one take away of this show, you look at Microsoft Word or Microsoft Office. And apple I work, and they start from the position of a single person wants to make a deliverable, whether it's a spreadsheet or presentation or a document and give them the best possible tools to make the best possible version of that. Whereas the starting point for the G suite is a group of people want to collaborate that informs the entire way the applications made one of the reasons why we. We don't have a native Google docs, hop on the MAC is because they want you to run it out of the web where they can completely control that experience. And we're going to talk later about how both are kind of racing towards the middle a little bit G suites trying to get better at document layout in the stuff that it's crucially been bad at and word, and I work or trying to get better at collaboration there. They're both trying to like run at each other in a certain extent. But if you're thinking about G, suite if collaboration is the number one thing you need G suite needs to be on your list of considerations. Because there's things you can do with G, suite documents and spreadsheets, and we're going to talk about some specific applications later in the show outline that just they're not on the table with the other stuff, and it it like changes it actually changes the fundamental nature of the tool in that regard. And like, I'll just give one away. My kids were telling me how at school, you know, they're not allowed to text each other and everything they open a Google document. And they they ride in it because live collaboration. In the talk. They talk to each other via Google documents. You know? And so they've turned it into a messaging platform, and because that's the way do, you know, they're not cheating or anything. It's just, you know, you wanna sit to note to your friend about whatever, you know. That's incredible. And that's just one way people are using this stuff. And you can because the cooperation is so good. Yeah. Absolutely. I think a neat thing. They do too is a lot of a lot of Google online app. Have. Yes, we can talk in the document actually have a good chat window separated from the document. So we could be looking at a spreadsheet and chatting about something without manipulating the data in the sheet. And that's something that I use with my co workers all the time. Okay. Can you look at this? Or do you think about this? You know, before I go in and do it gives you that layer of abstraction away from the data. So it's not just Claburn the sense that I can edit the document when you do, but we can talk about it on a meta level before ending the document itself. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but the bottom line is is much as apple and Microsoft are working on this Google has always ruled on this collaboration stuff. Yeah. I've had I've had real not great luck with with the. I work in the cloud stuff. So it's like pages and go in the browser and do it. And I've really found that I tried about once a year or so we usually try it on connected with my co hosts there, and it always falls down. It was just not quite there yet. And they're getting like, you said, everyone is progressing, but Ghul had such a head start. It's taking a long time for these other providers to catch up. Well, and I guess let's just talk about a little bit right now because I've had better experience than you have. But it is. I think I'm a little more forgiving of it because you know, pages is a good example. It is page layout tool. There is page formatting stuff. You can do in pages that just doesn't work very well in Google. You know, I was just earlier today has working on a contract with a client. We were working in Google docs. And we had to do some formatting. And it was like we were all there were three people on the call all working on document the same time. Nobody could get the document to format right to the extent that finally we just copied the text out of the document and blasted the formatting now. I mean, it was like it was it was a very, you know, lousy way to fix some format. Whereas in pages, I could have done it in seconds. And so they're saying, yeah, just does better. And traditionally both pages and word had this thing where they had native apps, but you know, when you have a native out, then you're adding a layer of obstruction. If you want to collaborate on page document, I as the internet than it has to translate that down to the local app. That's why you'll see pages and word now trying to collaboration on the web. They wanna equal playing field with Google docs. And they're better like another examples apple notes apple notes collaboration really works on my show. Show a focus that I do with Mike Schmitz, just as an experiment. We started the show. We started outlining the show an apple notes, and we do that now. And we just like you and I do with Google docs, Mike, and I do with apple notes. And while we're while we're recording the show. We can move sponsor read down we can change. We can write a note to each other about let's get this point until next month. You know, and it shows up maybe not instantly, but within seconds, and that's close enough at notes is a great example of apple doing it. Well within an app or you're not going out to the browser debt. You're just doing it in the notes up on your MAC? I would like to see them bring that to more and more things. And of course, notes and its scope is far simpler than pages like you said page is really a page layout tool that like has a word processor in it. It's it's incredibly powerful and wide ranging. And I think that's to rebuild all of that would take time. Right. It's different than if apple just put. Text at it in the cloud, which is less than Google docs. But maybe the delta between the smaller than Google docs and pages, it's a different the different tool, but I'd like to appeal I would like to see apple improve that definitely there's still a lot of room to go. But it is impressive that got working. Another example is I'm doing a collaborative presentation in keynote right now, and we're designing online together. And it's it's working fine. But I wouldn't want to have three people at the same time monkeying around with. All right. Well enough about that. Let's let's talk a little bit. Then about Google as a platform because I think that always comes up when you get into this discussion. Yeah. This is a big topic. Right. If people have rightfully so have complex feelings about Google as a company and. G suite as a as a product, and I'm just gonna to say a disclaimer here, I'm gonna call this Google apps at some point over the next hour, or so I promise I will. That's what it was called for years. Google apps is a better name than G suite. But I'm I'm trying my best here, we forgive me. I almost did that when I read the Showtime. In my head. It is Google apps. There's a translation layer going on throughout this entire show. Yeah. Absolutely. We'll just do a find and replace in the that's not how doesn't how that works. Doesn't how that works audio Texas pander. Incredible smile get on that. I so I think a lot of the feelings around goule come down to their business model, right? Google primarily is a search engine that primarily makes its money through ever touching and makes a lot of money through advertising, Google big company, and because of that people feel that Google is going to do things with their data to serve them more relevant ads. And if you were using run of the mill Google, applications, not as a G suite paying customer to a degree. That's true. Right. So if you have a regular g mail account, doing regular Google searches doing this sort of regular as a regular Jimoh dot com address, Google is using that data to a degree to serve you more relevant ads, and it's sort of up to us as consumers, I think to know what we're comfortable with and what we're not. But we need we need to separate that from G suite so G, suite. Is a paid program. I really offend pays Google money each month for these services, and according to Google at self in their security, white paper, there's no advertising in the core products being g mail docs, sheets hangouts and Google keep. So these are are ways that Google makes money for me as a regular consumer. But if I show up as Stephen at relay dot FM a paying customer, and so that's how they're making their money for me not through advertising. So I think it's important to realize that distinction is there because it's an important one. What one so I was trying to get to the bottom of this before recorded. You know, there's so many people on the internet. The thing Google is the best thing on earth over the worst thing on earth. I can't seem to be. Yeah. I can't really figure it out. But I understand they don't serve you are they still doing data collection and analysis when you have a paid account like are they still reading your Email? But find out if you're talking about come quotes. I'm very curious about your Email of a sudden like coaches. Just the rest of the Serta. That is just one of my favorite silly words. Yeah, good. You're going to get highly relevant ads. If they are. That's that's a good question. And honestly just reading the white paper the the language has no advertising. So it doesn't say no collection. I I would just like, no, I think I'd feel better about it. If I knew that not only are you not feeding me ads, you're still you're also not using me to help build your advertising machine for you know, and I don't know. But the and some if somebody definitively knows, and how some something appoint me to please do I, you know, we'll we'll cover it and feedback at some point. But, but if you just got an inkling or you heard from guy, don't don't Email me. It's okay. All that stuff is on the internet. Yeah. So how how do you feel like where is your use of of Google products? And how do you feel about? And is that changed over time? It has I'll tell you when Google first arrived. I mean, I remember when it was just a simple little, you know, web search, and it was like so much better than everybody. So I my first reaction to Google was love, you know, how much better was than all the other ones. Remember, ask Jeeves? Oh, yeah. And that was cool. But then as they got a little creepy. You know, whenever a company has a motto is company verse do not do no evil. Maybe it's just the fact that I've been a lawyer so long when someone tells me that's their motto. It just like immediately raises the hackles, you know, it's like wait a second. But but and they did. So they've done some kind of creepy things over the years. But I feel like the words out now I mean, it's an advertising company, and they're going to give you some really awesome services, and they're going to serve you ads, and that's kind of the price of admission. And I think most people in our circles know about this. I wish everybody kind of understood that better. But I don't think they're necessarily out to get you. And I don't think that they're going to try to violate your trust. I think that that's important to them that people trust them. So you know, I really I'm not totally against. It's like, you know, we do show outlines for this show and Google I'm even gonna talk later about some legal clients stuff, I do through Google docs. But the at the same time, I don't really. Go out of my way to use them either. I do like kind of more little more controlled my privacy. And I'm I'm willing to pay in. I'm willing to pay. So I don't have to to do that. Yeah. So for me, I've used g mail from personal Email forever. I remember when G Mel I launched. It was like an invite only systems you find somebody with an invite this is before Twitter and read it and all these things, right? So it's like I had a person a friend in real life who got in. And like sit me, I think he handed me actually like the sign up code credible. Very different time. Remember that I've used it forever. I now use it with a mix of cloud services. But like I said at work for for relay FM, it's G suite all the way, that's where Email is. That's where calendars where all of our documents are for me, my sort of feeling on it again, it's going to be for everybody. But is that the the features I get and the the tool. Tools that I can use. Because of Google's platform is worth that price of admission, and it's important to remember this data is all it's anonymous to Google, right? They're not there's not somebody sitting and like Google's campus, which I've been to. It's lovely no-one sitting there in the cube farm, you know, just refreshing David Sparkes Email account. That's just not how it works and that level of abstraction there's privacy built into that. And I think you made a really astute point is Google and all of all of these companies really they operate on trust as the currency. Right. So if they do something that breaks that trust then they can lose users. They can lose revenue, and there will always be people who that trade off is not worth it or they don't feel like it is. And that's totally fine. Totally fine. I understand it. But for me where I am as Stephen and individual. I'm i'm. Fine with their services and and use them every day. I mean, if you look at Facebook as an example, they've had some trust wreck towns, I guess that's one way to put it in the last year. And so a lot of people that don't think about this stuff for a living are starting to question their relationships with Facebook. And I think that that is an example of why Google's going to try and then do the right thing. PM exactly I also think that it may get easier to use these services, if there is government regulation, and I know I'm gonna just annoy the heck out of a bunch of our listeners by talking about government regulation. But, but you know, maybe, you know, maybe that's not a bad idea to to say put some limits on what they can do or at least give us a way to understand exactly what they're doing with our. And I mean, just I mean not to jump on Facebook again. But I think just like in the last week. I read an article where somebody had built a service showing you exactly how Facebook was using your data. Right. And then Facebook blocked the tool, so you can't do you can't see how they're using it. I mean, it's just like. Maybe we should be able to know that stuff. And then if you go into knowingly, you know, okay? This is what they're doing. Okay. I'm okay with that trade off and just one last point before we move on. My the reason I don't use Google isn't a religious, you know, you know, ferocity against Google. It's more in a lot of ways from its convenience because you know, when I left the firm went out on my own. I have my whole empire. Now built around cloud services, you know, my contacts database by Email. Everything's just managed in one provider. That's that's done fine. For me. I know some people don't like I cloud even more than they don't like Google, but it's been fine for me. And it's nice having everything in one place. It just makes everything so much easier. Hey wanna think of responser Omni outlander from our friends over at the Omni group on the Atlanta is in my opinion, the best outline here for the MAC, ipad, an iphone? I mean, Atlanta combines powerful outlining tools, plus a smart and simple interface to allow you to make beautiful outlines that can be. Be as complex as you want to be. But no more than that. You know, it can be really simple to with smart, columns and script ability, custom styles and templates. You really can't go wrong, and you can share data between all your devices with on me out Leonard. So you always have got your outlines with you. This is really helpful for me because I'm always using lines for stuff I'm working on like if I'm writing a contract for client if I'm planning next field guide. I keep those an outline in Atlanta. So I can just pull my phone or my ipad on my pocket, and I can go in and fiddle with it whenever the thought occurs to me then want to get back to my MAC. Everything's there. And I'm ready to go. Another thing. I like about it is this. They look so good like, for instance, on the legal side when I out line a document for client. That's one of the first steps I do on on major transactions as send the client and outline of the whole thing. And they're always impressed. I once had a marketing company, I sent them the outline they said, we were really happy with what you're doing. But the biggest question is is how. How did you do this? Because now they want to use it with the stuff they share with their clients, and I had to tell him. It's just an out you just need a MAC, and it's on the letter. So no matter where I am. I can always have my outlines with me, and they're gonna look great. We've heard from listeners it us on me outline for all sorts of things like writing a novel, creating a family tree or or just collecting their thoughts. It's a great application, and you should check it out today. If you have an any need for outlining head over to the Omni group dot com and download on me Atlanta. They have a free trial. So you can check it out. And just see how great it is. They've got some Tottori on the website. So you can figure it all out and get outlining today, and let them know you heard about it here on the MAC power users. All right. So let's talk a little bit about the basics of I'm going to say it G, suite. I got kind of right? All right. Commits it's so hard to get it. Right. So the the easiest way to sort of talk about this. I think or the way to sort of picture it. If you're not familiar with is it's basically like having a regular Google account, so g mail, Google, docs, etc. But with your own domain name. And so I can log into g mill as Stephen at relay dot FM. And it's it looks just like your regular g mail account. It's regular Google docs. It's just has a lot of extra goodies sort of layered on top being G, suite customer. Yeah. And those administration tools, which are so great. Yes. Absolutely. Most of the except most of these apps regular g mail users can use. But there are some extra features and some and really I think the admin stuff in the sharing options. Access via GPS we are really wear. It makes the difference for a lot of people or some people may just want an easy way to have a branded Email accounts. If you're starting a business, you don't want your Email address to be like at g mail or at I cloud, or at will, no one should be Yahoo anymore. But you see what I'm saying? Like, you want something that looks a little more professional, and if you're used to g mail. This is a really easy way to do it and the pricing the pricing starts at like five dollars a user a month. And this is Lincoln the show is actually the first link in the show notes sort of a walks through this. It goes up to twenty five dollars a user a month to get basically add on additional storage. There are enterprise security features third party integrations e discovery tools, which I won't actually David went to hear you talk about. Because I don't think I quite understand what those do. But kind of you can add things on his you need them, or is your organization grows. I don't wanna get into great length. But when. People get mad at each other and sui-chung either in the old days, they'd say, I wanna see all your files, and that was something you're entitled to look at generally with exceptions, of course. And so the court had all these procedures where you hit go make copies of their papers. But of course, now, nobody has papers. So e discovery is the digital version of that looking at your emails, and whatever you have related to something. It's a big it's a big mess and lawyers are still trying to figure it out because the low legal profession is Harvey. Okay. So if you're a big company, I guess you need that protection. Yeah. That's available to you. And I know when our to the Salvation Army we used Lotus Notes for everything psych and everyone calm down, and it was cutting edge. But it is what it was and Edith scurvy was a huge deal. They had corporate policies and like policies on the server in place. I not to four automatically Ford or Email out because a lot of people would try to Ford it out to like a g mail accounts like checking on their phone because when I was there at least Lotus and. Mobile devices didn't speak to each other yet. Yeah. And it was because of discovery. So if that's something that you need, or if your lawyer tells you you need it, you can still use G suite that one falls in the category of lawyers ruined everything. Not not Alvin terrible. I know I know one guy's pretty good. There you go G suite is also huge in education. Like, honestly, this is a whole show unto itself. And it was a Frazier and Bradley chambers on out of school talked a lot about this show the cover tech education that show is ended now. But I think there's still a lot of good stuff in there archives. But if you are a school, either K through twelve or higher education G, suite for education offers all the stuff we've talked about so far at a reduced price, sometimes free, even depending on I think sort of details, and it allows you to really integrate with Chromebooks, and you see, you know, all these stories about Chromebooks taking off in schools. This is actually part of this not just that the hardware is cheaper, which it is usually, but G suite means that if a kid smashes a Chromebook, they just signed into another one. You know, ship that broke off for repair and all their stuff is there it integrates really fluidly and seamlessly so all their stuff's on the cloud and nothing's on the local device exit. I by no means an expert and the education side of G, suite. But I know a lot of schools in my era people, you know, people have talked to over the years online who are using it in K through twelve and higher at two great satisfaction. And I know there's a lot of those folks listening to the show because we hear from educators all the time a lot of them are G suite for education like certified or they they get, you know, acknowledged that they they understand that in a lot of them are empty listeners. And that's I I would argue that G suite vegetation is more of the reason that Google is eating apples lunch in education than even the cheap Chromebooks because. Yeah, once you get that platform lock in, and it's just so easy, and the teachers who who aren't necessarily geeky learn how juicy works. It's going to be really hard to change that I think that's absolutely true. And. It works. I mean, I've seen it with my own kids. I mean, they don't print papers they turn and Google docs. And the teacher they have audit trails of the teachers can say, you know, turn this in by two PM. And that's what the kids do. They get their stuff done and digitally turned in. I think something else to consider. We should talk about is, you know, G suite. It's online service. I go to it in my browser. But there are times where you want at least a copy of that data locally on your MAC or on your P C, and there is an an application called it's called just called Google backup and sync and it lets you effectively keep a copy of all this stuff on your local machine. So if you see so if if something happens, you still have that data locally, if you are a G suite customer, there is Dr file stream drive file stream, and it it sort of works. The way drop it's not dropbox infinite. But I forget what they end up calling dropbox. You know, where basically you can have a file it looks like it's in finder, but it's actually on the server and downloads on demand. This is sort of like that. But it makes sure that any changes across any of your drive files, so any Google docs, or any like images or PDF's anything stored and Google Drive itself or just sort of storage repository online that all this get sinked to your local machine. So if you're offline somewhere, you still have access to the stuff because that's always an important thing to consider like, if you if you're if you're type of work means that you're off in the middle of the woods, you know, five days a week doing something amazing in nature, but you need your documents from time to time on your laptop like that's a different set of criteria than what I have where I'm in a studio on an amac with like high speed internet, basically all the time. So this allows you to sort of mix and match your priorities and say, hey, you know, actually, I do want all. This locally, or at least a cached version of it. So I can get to it offline it's pretty handy. And I would argue in addition the local copy of stuff if it's mission critical things for you. I mean, it's great to rely on goal. And all these years, I've been using Google some of these applications I've never lost any data, but why not have belt and suspenders because as soon as you get on your local drive than all your local backup implements, you know, whatever they be it could even be a separate cloud backup. You know, you could back it up to a separate cloud or you've got a local drive attached or all of the above it just gives you more copies of your data. So you're not reliant on the vendor. Google to make sure you never lose anything. Right. And it doesn't have to be a scary data loss going to be like what if they're having some sort of outage, and I really need something. Right. Even these biggest companies even AWS which like powers half the internet is seems like has downtime, and if it's really. Critical. I think I think your point is well made have that stuff locally. So what I do is I run backup and sync, and I have basically a copy of everything in our sort of shared world for relay just sink to my I MAC, and it's never come up where I needed to fall back to that. But a nice I like to know that it's running amendment you bar, and it just makes everything a little bit more safe in the data files are unless you big attachments to data files are extraordinary. You know, it's not that typical to dome load it, and it's just not a problem. In fact, this is one of those interruption points. I think if you're listening, and you're gonna use this stuff. We put a Lincoln the show. That's make sure you download this thing. Yeah. Absolutely. And you can also use the the Google export tools. So you can actually go in like make an archive of everything in your account. I do that about every ninety days just to have a an archive everything. Again, we talked about the MAC mini episode IV Adraba. Oh, and apparently my mission in life is just to fill it up. And so I just have an archive of my d sweet account there. Every once in a while. Why not it's not a problem? And when you someday you may need, it, you just never know. That's what I keep telling myself. We talked very briefly about it earlier. And this is something I definitely want your input on because I am not a big said Google apps again G sweetser. What about these advent tools? I mean, what can you do when you have a paid account in terms of control? This is huge. And you relate we have three accounts. We have mind we have mics we have carrier ourselves manager. That's it. But even with three people there are a lot of things I can do to sort of manage their accounts and the services we use. But if you're an organization of one hundred people or you're managing a school of a thousand students, I think the Admiral scale pretty nicely, and they give you insight and capability that. You don't have if people just running around with regular account. So this sort of fall into four or five big categories. I think the most common one that I use at least every lay is the user management tool. So I can go in and I can create. Eight users say that we hired somebody else. I can just create them an account. I can edit existing account. So if someone needs me to reset their password, or, you know, say someone has a name change or they want to change her Email address, or if someone leaves any disable their count. I can do all of that really quickly and easily from the administrative dashboard. I can see a list of users and go in and do anything I need to do. I can also organize them into what Google apps G suite calls organizational units. So if we had a bigger company, we had a wholesales department, I can have a set of policies for the sales department that would be different than say, Mike, and I as owners of the company, for instance, the password reset thinks so I say, you know, Mike, and I can reset our own passwords, but anyone else they need to come to be an I'll reset their password for them. And then give them a temporary password. Something as simple as that from a policy perspective, you can set per user or per group really pretty easily and also gives you control under the individual Google applications that they see right? Yeah. Absolutely. So you can add different apps to your account. So everyone kind of gets the core apps, but safe for some reason, you didn't want g mail. You don't wanna Email you could turn it off. And no one has access to it that that's probably an extreme example. Because in my mind, that's one of the strongest offerings, but you can turn things on and off again, one by one company wide, or by these organizational units, which is really fine grain control and each app has additional setting. So again, g military example, Jima has this thing called labs, which are sort of. I don't know if there experimental, but they're features at aren't turned on by default, and you could enable or disable. Lab at on's, again per user per team per company-wide, or you could say, no, he's any labs. You just get the stock G mill experience or I could say you can have I map access, but not pop or I could say everyone has to use this mill theme, I want everything to look branded to my company. I could force that on everybody. I it just gives me all these options beyond yet Jima on or off will actually I want to be this specific way for these specific needs you can again fine. Tune all of that stuff through the dashboard. Yeah. You know, the thought of telling people what team they have to use. I don't I don't force that through. I don't enforce that I do have enforce some password policies. So we all have to factor turned on on our accounts, I can set a passer policies for like length or complexity so that turned up a little bit, and you can even do this. But you can even set expiration dates on password. So I sure when I worked at apple I had a reset my my internal Appalachia password every ninety days, and I couldn't just you know, at a number to it. So my password or couldn't be max park is the best one. And then change it to max bark is the best to. It's like, no, no, no. It has to be totally different. You can even do that sort of stuff, you know, sort of like corporate IT, quote unquote, things through G, suite. Yeah. Something you have the L, and I didn't even know existed with Google apps administration. I called the Google apps in the hardy. Hardy is device management. I didn't know you could do DOI's management through the advent panel. Yeah. It's it's pretty neat. So you can run your whole inventory through here. This doesn't just have to be Chromebooks in Android devices. You can basically just use it as an inventory system, you can set up an MDM which allows you to enforce all sorts of settings on IOS and Android devices. I what happens if they get stolen. You can basically hand out an iphone already has their account pre configured push apps through the MD m. Set up Email accounts, all of this stuff MDM's really gives you a lot of power, and it's just built into G suite. Now, it's more basic that some of the others out there on the market, right? There are some companies that this is all they do. But if you need something sort of straightforward, and you don't want to pay for something else, and this meets your needs the device management tab. I think you're I think is overlooked by a lot of people, but there's powerful stuff in there. If you need then I think that's kind of overall theme if you're gonna pay for a Google applications count that G suite account. Okay. I just need to start. Banging my head against the desk. Every time. I said I thought you were the one that was supposed to do that this too. I put it in your mind. Yes. Well, anyway, I it's just there's a lot of power with the been. I mean, there's a lot. You can do there's even I I didn't know this until researching this is actually like resource management's, you can you can basically tell G suite about all your conference rooms, for example, and they become locations. So in. Someone sets up a meeting on their calendar. They say, oh, I'm in the starfish and rainbows confident. Oh that was booked. Let me go to puppies and sunshine. Instead like all of this stuff, you can customize it. So your employees have access to all of the resources of the company, not just the docks and the PDF's, but like again conference rooms travel, calendars, all the stuff you can you can build it. And you can gain insights, you can say, oh this conference room is always booked. But the one down the hall never is with that could be an indication that maybe that conference room down the hall, like maybe the air conditioning's broken into no one reported it or you know, maybe the projectors and as good, you know, you you can use these a gain insight into the business like you just went have, otherwise, here's an important question. Let's say that really blows up and you guys get your own building. Right. Sure. What are you going to name your conference rooms after? I mean what I would name mine after can I guess can. I guess. Yeah. I mean, it's it's going to be classic. Thanks. I would say I said classic max. But then no one wants to go to the conference room Performa. Right. Like, nobody just wants to go there. So maybe if there's less than thirteen of them, maybe we could do the colors of the I Mak g three so oh, so you and tangerine I'll see you in flower power place that could work too. I would go with jazz musicians. There'd be miles. Yeah. Bird. It's good. Disney's yours is yours makes more sense for company. I feel like I would be VP of conference rooms that feels like that's on my side of the equation now. I think that's that's right up your wheelhouse. A lot of people ask about extending G, suite. So how do you get data in and out of it? How do you integrate with it goes on a good job here too? So they were tools for importing and exporting. So some of these services you got to look out for it's easy to get data in but hard to get data out c conversation about Facebook, fifteen minutes ago. Google does a good job at giving you a ways to do this. So if you're using say like an old Microsoft exchange server, you know, getting the hall closet server, it's creaky and not secure. They give you to import all that stuff into G, suite. And if some some reason you need to move on their tools to export data back out, and that is huge for me as a business owner knowing that my stuff is not all locked in. And like this comes and big and small ways like when when one of my favorite little features do darks not that I use it very often. But that no that it's there. I can export illegal doctors a PDF or a word document, which is like a menu item in Google docs. And just knowing that it's not locked away. And some sort of format is meaningful to me, you think about long term, you know, long term solutions. Not what what not what amazing for the next five years. What amazing for the next fifteen? They give you all this tools, and they allow you to integrate say, you don't even want to move everything, but you have an L DAT, which is a directory of people, you've active directory on a Microsoft server, you can even just integrate you don't even have to export and import and replace the old stuff G, suite can come alongside and give you all nine tools, but allow you to manage your user, Stu something like an active directory. It gives you a lot of flexibility when it bringing new tools into your work set. This episode of the MAC Peres is brought to you by sandbox. We're actually talking about emailed on this episode. And if you're like me, you just get way too much of there's just. This is too much and same box is like my it's my go-to way to filter. My Email to understand what is what is important, and what's not. I it same boxes like a robot. Army always working on my Email. So when I show up it's all ready to go, and it works with all kinds of programs and services, of course, it works with G, suite. But it works with lots of other things. You don't have to have some sort of special app. You can use the app you want to on your phone or your MAC because it's all working in the cloud. This filtering is really smart. So a couple of examples of things I love saying later is a folder. So if an Email comes in, and it's deemed not to be super important. I just know it's insane later and in a couple times a day. Maybe the end of the day. I'll check that folder. And it's things, you know, maybe it's a pitch from somebody. Or it's a it's over somebody haven't heard from before it just waiting there for me as opposed to clogging up my inbox. Then you have the same black hole. So if you have an Email, and you decide you never. Need to hear from the Senator again put it there. You don't have to deal with the unsubscribe thing. I had this just the other day. I try to unsubscribe from a marketing Email from my Bank and the unsubscribe link is broken just like just ten at work. So I drug it at the same black hole at I won't get their marketing emails again, you could snooze Email. You can you can defer them to the next business day or or the weekend. And then you have sane reminders. This is really powerful. If I sent an Email, and the the other person doesn't reply I can just just get a reminder. You know, a week later have long saying, hey, you a fall up with that? So to do that you just see see for example, one week at Saint box dot com and a week later. I'll get a reminder. Hey, you need a follow up on that. You can move tach moments dropbox or other cloud services to save space, and they have various pricing plans. They start as low as about four dollars a month. But you dear listener can check out a fourteen day free trial, just go to sane box dot com slash NPR, and two awesome. Things happen one you receive twenty five dollars credit on any plan. If you're one of those four dollars a month plans, that's a lot of free Saint box. If you sign up for that trial by February twenty fourth you'll be entered to win a one hundred dollars Amazon gift card. That's just that's just awesome. Sixty six percent of Impe listeners who try same box. Get subscribed. Think you're going to be one of them. You're gonna love it. So go to sane box dot com slash -ympia. Receive a twenty five dollars credit any plan and check out that fourteen day free trial. Hey, I want to talk about one of my favorite parts of the G suite. And that is the actual day to day applications in particular dachshund sheets. Did this is this is like the the the heartbeat for me of of these tools a lot. It has a lot of stuff. But for me, this is where I spend basically all my time. Yeah. I mean, and and like I said earlier because there are collaboration is number one on their whiteboard. It opens up the application to do things that you just couldn't do with traditional word processor spreadsheet. And just I thought, you know, we've already kind of explained that. But I wanna talk about some real world examples MAC Powell users going back to time eternal has had this Google sheet where we track the future show topics were working on some sponsor management a whole bunch of stuff. We do that's all run through Google sheet over the years. A lot of people have had access to it that needed it. And it's just been. A a great way to manage the show in a collaborative fashion. It's great. I mean, you can send me a slack message and say, hey, what episodes we have in two weeks, and I can just tell you we can rearrange things. And it is so useful to have, you know, have something that you know, you, and I can get it might conceal it as well. He can make changes to it like without again without saying, oh, what version did you save again, or I'll have to open it from dropbox or didn't Email it to you like I just know that it's up to date because that's like built into the DNA of the tool. Yeah. And and the fact that you can rely upon it always being up to date opens up some additional options a war story for me was the legal practice. I had a thing where a judge made a bunch of changes to a bunch of things. And and said, I need all this typed up by tomorrow morning. And it was something that I couldn't easily scandals here. It's just the traditional technology tricks. I would use weren't available to me we had a brute. Force it. So I had four people in the same Google document at once and basically split the Documenta four pieces, and we all wrote it over course of an hour, something that would have taken me four hours, you know, to put together but having four people work in the same Google, doc at once, and there was just no problem, and some of the people in their professional typists, you know, they were paralegal staff that are just very fast on the keyboard. And they were flying through the document, and it was just great. And that's not something you would ever imagine doing with traditional Microsoft Word document, another one I do on the legal side is sometimes I get lots of documents for review with respect to client matters. And the client's always know things about the documents because they've lived with them longer than I have and I can try and get on the phone with them and and get information out of them. But I find that's not the most ideal way and client sometimes need a little I will set up a Google sheet. And we'll have an index of the documents. And I add fields. They're like does this help your hurt you, or what are you know, how did this happen or whatever I have fields that I had in the client's go and type it in. And because it's always up to date. I always have the most current information, and I can even add notes as well. And then we can kind of collaborate, and that's something that before we take very complex software. But now you can do with the with the Google sheet. We had you know, rob cordray who's the the lost show of MP. I was telling me that you know, he used to do that great chill children's hospital, and the they still work on the scripts collaborative collaboratively through Google, doc, where the different writers would write different jokes in different ink colors in order to, you know, just kind of get the message across this is before they had some the advanced tools. They do now in Google. That's great, you know. And and and I think David Wayne, even when he came on the show talked about how he wrote the script for forget the name of the movie, it's the one where Jennifer Aniston went to the nudist colony forget the name of it now wonderland Wunderlist. He wrote he wrote the script for that. He was New York. His Kereta was like an LA and they didn't Google doc. You know, and so that's great. You know, it's just that collaboration. Just opens up a lot of options. It does my favorite example is something internal to realize that we call them mega sheet. I don't know how it got that name. But that's what it's called. Great name. Sounds like curly though, sounds like early name. Yeah. As probably a Hurley situation. So we use an invoicing system to send invoices to our sponsors. But that doesn't give us all the the data. We want sort of quickly at our fingertips. And so over the last five years, I have been slowly building. I think now it's in a pretty close to its final form the mega sheet. So mega sheet has basically a copy of every invoice that we censor the invoice number the billing month, the amount the, you know, the cut to relay the cut of the hosts, and then it has status and status is really where the magic happens. This is all in a Google sheet. And I created a dropdown menu to say, what's what's th? Is this invoice? And so I have sent I have payment pending partial payment pay to relay paid to hosts we have one called written off. So if a sponsor goes out of business, or you know, I think I've used at one time in five years like we don't get the money that one a lot of fun things happen tied to this. I'm using conditional formatting. So what this does is it looks at a cell and says if this cell has this content and do these other things, and so if I say this invoices sent it turns orange if I say it is paid. It turns green if it's partial it turns I think purple, and so I can just very quickly scan kind of see where things are. But then I also have the set of formulas looking at all of this. So I can see just at a glance. Okay. How much have we collected? That's, you know, oh to our hosts we make host payout every other week when it's time for that. I can I can verify that. Number against my invoicing systems. This is a double check that. We're doing the right thing, you know, three people in the world. See the spreadsheet is my greatest creation. But it gives us a lot of insight into our data and again because it's clever. Tive I go in here, and like, Mike and Kerry have done things. They've inter new invoices. They've changed something I can go in and is paid when the the money shows up, and they can see it. This is a tool that like really wanna be possible. The way that our company works because I'm in the United States, and they're in the United Kingdom Wilma's couldn't do this without something like Google sheets. And what you're describing are all traditional spreadsheet tools. Sure. People use them all day. But the when you add the collaboration that global collaboration in your case. That's what makes this, you know, Google applications a service worth looking at. Yeah. Yeah. Toy. Totally nothing. Here is nothing. Excel has it done forever. But putting it in this new context, we're gonna do it on my iphone? It's pretty sweet. Although, you know, talking about some of the bad parts of using these applications is, you know, the iphone and the ipad really, aren't that support supportive. Very well. The the ipad been particularly ipad apps, they're slow to update I think they're they're still not taking advantage of the new sizes for the twenty eighteen ipads copy and paste is weird drag and drop is weird if existent they're not great. I o s. No, they're not great citizens of the Iowa's ecosystem and like four salt in the wound. They don't really work very well. I think it's a far in the desktop, but especially safari like mobile safari. There's not like I go to the browser because it's kind of Janke there to this is a place where I really if I want suggestion for Google. It's make your IRS apps as good as your web apps are like really poor resources into them. Because it's frustrating to use them every day. Well, and and you really don't have a choice if you're going to be on IOS because the the web apps don't work on IRS. If you go to Google docs, in safari, it's going to say, no, you need us up. Yeah. I remember a story. I don't know if it's true or not how I guess at one point Steve Jobs had the name of the guy who was managing the Iowa stuff at Google and he was upset with like the shade of the e and the Google logo. And he called the guy on like a Sunday to complain about the color. Are they used for the e sounds about right? You know, and the guy took the call, and like I feel like that that connection doesn't exist anymore between the team at Google. And apple because now it's like apple comes out the new feature and about eighteen months later Guglielmo around to implementing it. That's the big downside for me is the lack of like super stellar Iowa support. You know, it's totally usable. I use it every day. But it could be it could be a lot better. I think for me the other one is that they just they don't these documents. And and and she's just don't look as nice as they can if you use something like pages or word. Yeah. I I wrote that in the outline is still ugly. And it is. I mean, it's funny because like the -ympia outlines I have over the years like made changes to them because I just can't stand the default formatting of Google docs, so much and and it's by far so I use Google docs for all of my show prep, and all my other podcasts outlines look worse than yours. Like, the MP one is like a nice place to be and the connected. One of these other shows like what happened? Yeah. I just I just can't I couldn't take anymore when and it was a pain in the neck to set it up. You know, it's it's not I mean, I do have style formatting, but it's not as powerful or easy as it is and something like word or pages. And here that gets back to my point of the beginning of the show at the starting point word and pages are tools for an individual user to me. You know, nice documents and spreadsheets whereas the starting point for Google collaboration environment. Totally I think that's I think that's totally fair. And and you know, Google is driving towards making it prettier. But it's still not there. And I think really one of the cut off points for me would be if it's something you're going to print you really may wanna think about doing somewhere else. But you know, it's just that if you, you know, gets down to the collaboration thing it's interesting for me because as a lawyer, I do a ton of document collaboration. I mean, that's my bread and butter. I do I read contracts almost every day. And I'm always working with another lawyer somebody else on them and in that role. I have always been, you know, I take to it like a mind like water, you know, it's like whatever you wanna do. You wanna work in pages and pages you wanna work in word. All we're, you know, whatever the other person is comfortable with because I'm fluent in all the languages. So, you know, you take somebody that only understands a word, and you try and through a Google doc at them, they're gonna lose their mind. So I just do whatever. And I'll tell you that, you know, collaboration online collaboration while there's nothing better than we've been singing the praises the whole show change tracking. And that. Kind of stuff. It's better in word. It's even better pages than it is with the Google docs. And so those types of power user features aren't really that. Great yet. And I don't know how important they are. It took forever for them to get. They don't even call it change check in they called suggestion. Yeah. But it took them forever to get support for that on Iowa's. Remember one time. I took a trip with my ipad. And I had a client the last minute to me a Google doc for change tracking. And I had to VPN back home to my MAC oh now to change track. I mean, it was just like the most goofy thing. But that was the only way to do it because nobody Google figured I guess people cool at the time just figured we were going to do any suggestions on an eye pattern iphone here knows. Yeah. But it's still needs work with that kind of stuff. But you know, like the stuff you're doing relay is never going to get printed. It's just a collaborative platform share information with coworkers. And that's like exactly what. Google apps is good at I'm just going to get call g Google apps gang. I can't stop myself. I'm sorry. I put that mind virus in your brain. No. It's also just embedded because it was always Google apps for so long. Yeah. So one of these sort of document sheets type app is Google presentation, which I don't have any any real time with. But I think you've checked it out. Yeah. I wouldn't in preparation for today's show. We talked about this ages ago. Perez when we were talking about presentation, tools, and I went and checked it out again. And in my mind, it it doesn't hold a candle to power point or keynote, and it still doesn't I don't like the phones I don't like the temple. Of course, the templates are ugly. You know, it's I guess it makes sense. I talked to my kids about it at the dinner table last night because you know, talking about we we talk about what we're doing in our lives is that I'm doing this show. Stephen about Google docs. And that's when I started asking them how they use it and they use presentations all the time. But because in classes, you know, the collaborative element the teacher wants the presentation turned in. So it's just like solves that problem. But when you look at the things it can do compared to the things we can I can do it keynote it. It's just it's terrible. I think you know, basically wins even though we talked about last week PowerPoint getting better. Like, if I'm gonna make a presentation I'm going to keynote every time I like, well, I mean just look spending time in the granted. I haven't spent nearly as much time with Google presentation tools as I have keynote PowerPoint. But it's like if keynote is a Ted in PowerPoint is a nine Gula presentations like a five I mean, it's not close. The the the core experience for me still I still think is g mail come out to a lot of Email with my job. And I it's branded really fem. So it comes from related fem. I use a ton of filter. So do you sane box on it? But. Regular g mail in addition to G suite has built in filters as well. So I use these for some things that some of the sandbox can't do. So my favorite example of this is I have feedback for my shows, you know, on the relay sites if you're on the relay site, and you hit send Email it's one of my shows that comes to me, and there's this. This is cool trick it's been purge Email forever where you can append a plus sign and a word to your Email account. So for instance, if you were going to send me feedback from the liftoff page so do Jason that actually comes to Stephen plus liftoff at relay FM, and what these filters are doing. They look for all Email coming to that address. And just moves it into a folder named liftoff. Follow up, it, you can do all sorts of things you can say Marcus read, keep his unread just to lead it if I don't wanna do that, you know, set of flag all of these things, but I really simple filter to. Look for this Email address, if someone's sending me something there, then just put it in this folder, and it keeps it out of my inbox. And so when I'm prepping liftoff outline twice a month. I just go into that folder, and I sort of the Email, and you know, replied, any I want to or pulling out of them. It could be a nice way to manage some things automatically an unlike I cloud, and you know, what we spoke about this on the MAC mini episode. Like, my MAC is at running to do this. It's happening actually on the server. So like, I don't even see the the Email hit my inbox. And then move it just gets put in that folder automatically. There's a really powerful system can do a whole lot. But sometimes the simplest rules. Make me the happiest. No. And there there's something that g mill absolutely wins is server based rules. I mean because it's Google. And of course, that's what they're going to do. Really? Well when you compare it to. The the server base rules you can do with an I cloud account the disparities even worse than between keynote and Google presentations. I mean, it's not, you know, it's like one versus a ten in terms of what you can do on server base rules. And that's frankly, one of the reasons why I'm such a big same box advocate because I like giving it to them to do. Yeah. Absolutely. But the, but yeah, it's it's so much better with Google if you want to do this, and the other thing that it does really well is it mixes with the I f t t t and his Appier and just the third party web services that will glue things together, they always have more access to information on your G, suite various utilities, whether it be the calendar or the Email, and they can do more things with them because it's just more cloud friendly. Yeah. It's it's really if if you if you treat your Email as a hub for other things, this is definitely like sort of the default answer CHAI. I've never gone full in. Gee, mil just because I like there's a couple of you know, we've done Email show. So I won't go at great length. But I like the portability of an I map account it can work with any Email application that I wanted to like I have the relationship with the server company. It's my paid I map account. And while it takes away some of that automation stuff that would have with g mail. I just like the control of it. Sure and g does offer pop and I'm app access to your point. It's not something like fast mail or hover which a straight. I map account. Google does some stuff on top of my map a couple of years ago that really broke Apple's mail applications like it was really bad for a couple of years. But you know, I use mail dot app on my Iowa's devices. And my max, I don't use any third party mail clients and both g mail and my sweet accounts worked just fine in them. But that's always a question. Like, it's always in the back of my mind. Like what happens if these company? Don't get along or G mail is Google slowly moving to adding more and more things on top of I map. No, I think Apple's responsibility to its customers is to support that stuff. But if they decide not to that could become rocky again at some point. But at least the last several years it's been I've had really good luck with it. I mean, I'm glad it's working. But it does scare me a little bit simplicity of not having to rely on those two giant companies working together. Yeah. Yeah. If you have like an open standard, it's always it's always best and what they're doing with the IRS apps doesn't exactly give me a lot of confidence, you know, because the I don't seem to be giving much love anyway. So comparing this. You know, comparing them with Microsoft Office, and and word and pages. And I work I think we've kind of already talked about it. But I do think that you need to look at the advantages of each platform when you're picking one. Yeah. That's huge. Right. Knowing what operating systems you want this looking at your list of priorities. So if you are someone who does print a lot of stuff, but you don't need to collaborate with anybody something like pages, our office could be a lot better choice. Or if you're like me and my situation where we work under percent remotely like religion rates. No pieces of paper G, suite was an obvious choice. It's all about where you are. I think understanding what each of these is good at you know, I feel like you've apple and Google kind of at the extreme ends of things we're apple is a like a rich desktop application mobile application. I company in the cloud stuff is in service of that. And you have Google which like doesn't care about client stuff client apps. It's all web stuff. Going to do it in a browser. Microsoft seems to be pretty much in the middle. They have good web apps. They have good desktop apps. They have a good cloud servers sinking at all. And so it's all about kind of you know, which solution works for you best. And of course, which company you're most you're most comfortable with some people are not aren't using a product. So I work as an option, but some people don't to do with Google. So there's always give and take there and thinking just about understanding where you are. And what your needs are before going out and signing up for something. Hey before we continue. I want to talk about our sponsor. And that's the folks over at squarespace. This episode of power users is brought to you by squarespace. Make your next move with squarespace with squarespace. You can easily create a website for your next idea with a unique domain, award-winning, templates and more. So maybe you want to create an online store or portfolio or a blog or even as I'm about to tell you a wedding site. There's nothing to install no patches to worry. About no upgrades needed. You don't have to worry about any of that stuff. Squarespace has got it all covered they have award winning twenty four seven customer support. If you need any help, they let you quickly and easily grab a unique domain name. And all of those word winning templates are beautifully designed for you to show off your great ideas. And I have a little story about how I was recently a hero to a friend a good friend of ours. Got engaged in. They're about to get married and she wanted to build a website. And she knew I wondered so she's like, Dave, you gotta help me build a website know, anybody listening to this who's ever helped friend with a website knows those are the words of doom. Right. It's it's almost worse than being asked to help them move. It's like I'm going to have to build a website. Then every time, you know, you know, the plug ins break or whatever I'm going to hear about like you're taking on the lifetime tech support commitment. That's not true with squarespace. So I had her over we sat down had to bring her computers. So she could do it herself. And I spent about an hour with her getting basic wedding website setup. Squarespace has got a bunch of tools for that. So it's really great and within an hour. Honestly, she was totally conversant with squarespace enabled to build her website. She was loving it. Because it gave her so much power. You know, she wants to move a line. She moves the line and she wants to add an Email intrigue or Email forum. She was able to create an Email form. And once I showed her how to import the picture. She was going nuts with all that stuff. And now, I go in and check this website, and it's like changing daily. You know, I think she's like I think she's getting ready to start a web development career, you know, because she loves it so much, and that's exactly what squarespace does that allows normal people to build their own websites. I did that with them expert in and my legal website because I'm not a web developer. I don't want to spend all my time learning, peach and all this other nonsense. I just use squarespace. It looks great. And the best thing is the plans start at just twelve dollars a month. But you can start a trial with no credit card required by going to squarespace dot com slash you. When you decide to sign up to use offer code MP to get ten percent off your first purchase of a website or Demane and to show your support for the MAC power users. Once again, that's squarespace dot com slash M P in the code -ympia to get ten percent off your purchase help a friend build a website and become a hero for them. We think squarespace for all of their support of MAC power users and relay FM squarespace. Make your next move. Make your next website. So we've spoken about g mail, Google, docs, and the administrative tools, but G suite offers some other solutions as well. And this kind of a laundry list at the end of the episode, but I think a big one that I don't personally use. But I know is really like key to how teams work is hangouts hangouts is like a term. It's a brand that Google has used a couple of different times and a couple of different ways. And the consumer version you use with your g mail that version hangouts is inflexible like I'm not quite seems like they're changing it or maybe it's going away. The depending on what you read when you read it there's some change coming there. But for paying G suite customers hangouts is really sort of three tiers of of product you have chat, which it sounds a lot more like slack. Then like I I was thinking like the old like Google chat like in the Saudi g meals like come on aim back in the day. But. Hangouts chat is sort of a slack or Microsoft teams competitor where you have virtual room. So not everyone is in the same chat altogether. You can have rings based on project based on team each room can support to eight thousand members like I don't wanna be any group conversation that big. But if you need it, it's there always doesn't always feel like anytime. There's a successful web base application that Google has a strikingly similar one. Oh, yeah. Shortly after they could just spend something up real quick transcription. This can be stored later for MAC spark, you need your discovery. It's there, and what does this thing with like third party bought so slack kind of does this. But in a different way like you can plug in Bautzen like ask the bought of something so Google searches. There's you can you can basically perform a Google search within the chat or look up maps information or integrate with third party stuff. Like if using get hub or something else, you can pull that information into the chat. Cannon slack. So this is a a text based tool to connect your, you know, your assumingly remote team together. And it's one that again, there's just comes with a G suite account like it's it's part of the deal. And so you don't have to go elsewhere. If you don't want to lots of people already using other things, but if you're starting from scratch, and when everything all in one sort of space, you know, for user management purposes, or something like that hangouts chat could be the answer for you, it, you know, it's interesting because just like apple rewards you for kind of bind into their hardware ecosystem, you know, the phone can talk to the ipad and can talk to the MAC Google. I think those rewards you. Once you start using their products. If you start staying within their ecosystem because all the stuff does tie together so nicely. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, why would you use something like slack with like separate user management? Have eight thousand people in a in a room is having it where you already have all that user record data makes a lot more sense probably for some people. And then they have hangouts, which is a lot more attractive this week to me for some reason. Yes, you can you can video conference. So if you want to have a meeting and not use FaceTime, or Skype, you don't Skype. You can use hangouts me. Hang out. Hang outs meat is what they call this video conferencing thing, and again, you have all the the layers above it for administration, tools, and you can set parameters around meetings, and who can do what? But it has that that video conferencing, just in the browser. But if you need more and you sign up for like, the enterprise edition, one of those more expensive plans, you also get dial in phone numbers. So someone can't video chat. Again. Like this mythical person I've created where they're working in the woods. But they're part of a company that uses G suite day, you can dial in from your cell than have audio access to it. Or if you have those big fancy like legacy Cisco or Polycom conference room phones, and that sort of stuff hangouts can integrate into that as well as you can have a whole conference room. Dial in and have someone on the other. End for instance. So it's it's in the beginning. This was just like browser video conferencing, but it seems to me like they've really expanded that to meet the needs of especially like corporate types, you have these other systems are have these other needs. I mean, don't you think that as Google enrolls? These features they start using them internally. And then they're big company. So yeah, they're going to hit all the pain points. And and it does seem like they eventually get a lot of the salt for their probably for their own use. I think that's exactly how how these big companies work, especially I think maybe Google more. So than apple just like, hey, we need this. And so we built it. And then we'll roll it out into our like into our products over time. I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I wind too much about it. But I'm pretty sure there aren't a lot of people doing a lot of file management at apple on ipad. No that. You know that or they're just really slow. Then the so there's hardware there's there's a whole bunch going on the can we just take a mix you've been kind of talking around it through the show kinda give us a twenty thousand foot view of how Google apps or Google G suite is being used over. Really, sure. So we talked about, you know, we use it for our emails or emails all branded relay FM, I use mail, Mike uses airmail or or spark or something. I don't know. But he's he's he changes milk lines. All the time characters that she wants to us, and we use that Email for all of our external communication. There's not a lot of internal Email at relay we you slack for that. In fact, if Mike Ryan Email each other, it's kind of a big deal like, oh, you really need to look at this sort of thing. Like, it's some some companies that'd be the exactly the opposite. But for us for some reason house worked out Email between the founders is very like holy ground. We don't we don't tread that very often. But we have. Heavily heavily use docs, and sheets. So it talked about mega sheet, which is our sort of external invoice tracking system as a double checking, it's our billing. I have I've Google sheets for everything David habit for keeping up with membership. We use a membership software member full to power really membership. But I track all that income and who gets paid what each month all that is in a big Google sheet. Again, I'm not doing anything in here that I couldn't do an excel or honestly, probably do a numbers but having an online having collaborative again, that's the top priority for me and for Mike we both get to it. We use Google docs, heuristic all the show prep. Mac Peres is in Google, doc. All my other shows are there. I think that's true for almost every show on the network. I mean, some people using apple notes, but I feel like most people are using Google docs at this point. And those, you know, those dachshunds are controlled by relay the business where the organization, but it's a way that I use Google docs at work. Goo Google Drive. We use less. Google Drive is like it's sort of an umbrella term, you can store files in it. Like, you can't dropbox, but you can also access your dachshunds sheets. They're all stored and drive as well. We don't use Google Drive for very much storage. We use dropbox for that. We could use Google Drive. But this was something that Mike, and I were already used to using. And so drop box kinda takes over all the storage space for us, not not necessarily Google Drive. And I'm not necessarily sure I agree with the way that dropbox accesses MAC OS because at the system level stuff to integrate with the finder, but it works. Good. And that's a that's a, you know, we're Google Drive. Doesn't do all that stuff? And I feel like you you feel it. It's a little bit of a pain point. Yeah. Absolutely one. Nice feature on the administrative side us, you can set up a Email groups in the adamant panel. And so say. I wanted a public facing Email like sales that really dot FM, and those would just go to Mike and Kerry or Hello really FM goes to Mike, and I automatically sit like Hello at that's not a actual Email account. I cannot go in and sign in as Helo relay dot FM. But it is just a groups you can send an Email there. And it just automatically comes to Mike, and I both and again with organizations three people, it's not a huge need. But if you're talking about multiple teams, maybe even multiple locations. The Email grouping can be extremely powerful to to help funnel messages to where they need to go, and it's been absolutely bulletproof. And honestly, it's one of the reasons we use G suite. There's a very short period of time before we launched the company, we were sort of just behind the scenes working on it where we actually used fast mail at the beginning. We ended up realizing two things one is a bunch of good dachshund spreadsheets. Just like tied to my personal g mail account. And I want them managed by the company. Right. So I leave or someone else leaves there's other people have access to them and g modus gave me more options than fast-melt, including like this Email group deal where you can do all of that stuff in fast mail, but not as nicely in my opinion. And it was like, okay, I've seen it all actually the unbrella to handle all of this and G suite was the the obvious choice or even like I have an assistant and I have like for me to set up Email forwards and things like that. I gotta pay for every one of them with my traditional I map service with g mill that's kind of baked in. Sure. Yeah. So it's it's again like you get sort of like the headline features. But all these details, you get all the extra stuff. You get really pushed it over the edge for us. And honestly like we are workflow is so dependent especially on these big, Google spreadsheets. Like, I I have no interest in really moving or looking elsewhere because our our needs are met. So well as not. To say if someone came along and really blew it out of the water. We wouldn't look, but we've been really happy with it now for going on five years and you've never lost data. Never. And you've never had a problem. And and it's like, let's say somebody makes something that looks better. Yeah. It's going to be hard to it's hard to do that like Princess the I work collaboration stuff. The the web based collaborate and stuff is pretty good in its let's say in a year from now they get it to where it's just as fast as Google. But it's got the pretty, you know, numbers and and pages format, you are you also they have to fight against the fact that you've had five years of no, no problems, totally sixteen service. Yeah. And also, it doesn't matter. How pretty it is? That is a that is a hurdle. That's going to be pretty high. Oh, yeah. These spreadsheets, you know, they're hundreds of lines long. There's lots of formatting. I do lots of math across individual pages in a spreadsheet like individual tag. Apps. All that stuff. You know, three people going in and changing stuff multiple times a day. And it just has been there's never been a hiccup rides. Just I know I trust. It is like verified that this is going to work and that in a way alone is worth the price of admission for maters knowing that what we're using is going to be rock solid all the time. It's fifteen dollars a month. That's crazy. That's that's all we pay. A we are on the entry level plan, and that totally meets their needs. And like, I have no problem. Paying fifteen dollars a month for this. I would pay way. More don't tell Google. Nobody will do this episode. 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Amac power users can get an exclusive ten percent. Off their lunar display. Just go to Luna display dot com and use the promo code power at checkout. That's Luna display dot com. Promo code power at checkout. Don't put this off any logger go. Check it out lunar display dot com. Promo code power. Ten percent off our thanks to Luna display for their support of this show and relay them. So, you know, there's there's some other pieces to the G suite that we haven't talked about that are worth at least some discussion and the first one for me is this product it's always been of interest to me from Google. It's called Google keep and you know, how I love notes apps. This is the this is the notes app version of j sweet. And I've got an played with it. I think on the forums. I've read several users are big fans of it. I think especially if you're already invested in the kind of Google ecosystem, it's probably a good solution. Because once again it ties in to all of your Google data. For me, though. Yeah. It's not for me either. I don't like some of the keep his little like free four to free form for me. I got a little more structure in my notes up. But you you res- good point all of these apps can pull data from each other. Right. So you can link really easily to dock or a spreadsheet you can update a note from your phone, and it's because it's Google it's in the browser when you get home like the sort of like all these apps have like little tendrils into each other. And that's huge. If you have a lot of data or again or working with working with other people. I agree with you. Keep is not for me. I've I've tried it. It's it's fine. I think it works. Well for a lot of people, but I just want a little bit more. In terms of organizational, tools will keep gets you Google sites is one that you mentioned I have no interest in Google sites. I haven't even explored it. It's like, no. Yeah. I feel like they're their web. Pages are going to look like their presentations. Yeah, the design is lacking. Definitely. But what this is is let you create a website again, you can pull data from Dr or like shared calendars, even what's neat in conjunction with G, suite is you can use this and say you have to sign in with like an improved G suite user account to see this like you could use this for an intranet. Right. So we mentioned a share point last week with Microsoft. We got some feedback on that. Or share point is sort of people have strong feelings about that's one way to put it. That's the way I can say without having to believe myself in the edit. But if you need to build something for an internal team, again, this comes with it, Google sites could be a way to do this with you. I'd only look good. I think some of the tools are maybe not as elegant or as easy to use some others out dog squarespace who is a sponsor. But again with this concept of you're paying for it. It's there, and especially I think if you have the need of I need a little website that only my employees. See this is probably worth checking out. But yeah, the design is not what I would want to deal with every day another one that kind of feels to me in that same vein as the G suite op maker. Which not ready to build web out come on. But you know, it makes sense though. Because once it can, you know, we're kind of doing the show on the impression that you're going to you're invest in G, suite you're going to go all in and this APM, acre kind of makes sense. Even for some of the stuff, you're doing relief. You wanted like the example they use as a as a way to rate vendors. Will you guys could certainly do that with sponsors you work with where you could build a little web app where your team could easily data to it and keep information. And these are you know, is very small a app, which is doing is. You're putting together a little web components with text box or Philon field. It's almost like a combination doc slash sheet. That's that you're gonna call him up. But the, but you know, if a why not I mean, if you're going to go all in with this stuff, it may be something worth exploring. Yeah. I think you summed it up. Well, we're this is again, internal use you. Not you're not going to build the next great web application for consumers with us. But if you wanted something as simple, as you know, a directory or having a way to input data into a Google sheet, but the Google form functionality, which we even touch on. But it's powerful and we use it a fair amount across the various shows. This is a way to extend that you can use Google's cloud platform, and they have like a scripting library, and you can pull in third party data sources. So if you need something again internal tools to your company, and you don't want to go out and like hire somebody like build an app that's just for two hundred people. This may give you a Nuff to at least get that started on your own and again because it's cool. It's all on the web it all works responsive. So you can like build now people can get on their iphone from the administration layer, you can see like how many people have seen it where. Are there any errors in it? When it was running like all this administrative stuff on top of it is key to I don't have a need for this. I don't think like I'm not building SQL absent any point within relay. But if the need came up, this this is probably the easiest way to do it. But I just personally don't have the need in my company, but in doing the show prep Stephen phone what I think is one of the coolest collaborative tools that I've ever seen and Google's making it. It's only five thousand dollars. But it's kinda cool who said Google stuff was always free. So this is jam board and Microsoft has shown videos of stuff like this. I think they even have a product to like it as well. You know, you kind of you walk into like a fancy California conference room and like everyone's beautiful and it sun. The sun is shining and the front of the table is this massive fifty five inch four K display. And so you can use it for white boarding all the information. And of course, has saved automatically into Google docs, Google Drive. So you don't like, you know, we've all been a means by someone takes picture of the white board to do that. Like, it's all get saved automatically. It does videoconferencing again like via hang out. So it knows about everyone in your organization. It knows about rooms they're in and they can interact with it VNI, Pat or like another mobile application. So they don't have to have jam board. You just have one, but they can go in there and like Asif to it. This seems really cool. It's five. Thousand dollars. All this like sorta high stuff is expensive. But looking at this YouTube video reading some about it. This seems pretty slick to me I think we should both just get a second mortgage shorthand each get one. And we'll it'll be the MP Chambord which is right on through the day. What it would devolve twos were just playing tic TAC toe on it. Right. Like, I think so. And there are things like smart boards out there. No teachers use a lot of short. There's there's interactive whiteboards out there. But this one when you combine it with all of the the cool Google collaboration stuff. We just spent an hour and a half talking about it really is powerful. And I'd recommend even if you're not interested in going the link and just watch the video. Yeah. It's really impressive before we end. I have some real time. Follow up David real time, though. So relays just going to semi Chambord Dawson. It's not. Just swipe the company credit card we recording this on February fourth as like as we were recording Google updated Google docs sheets and g mail to update and support. The new ipad pro display sizes. Hey, hey, we didn't have to wait eighteen months just to just to. So they got into we recorded it, and we made it happen. So that's clearly what happened right? So you know, what happened is the guy in the cubicle at Google was looking at our our show notes. So don't don't even don't give. No don't do that. And then he sent the word up to surgery and say, we could have fixed this. These guys are going to talk bad about us. Don't don't feed the root the rumors don't feed. Okay. Sorry. I was teasing. I was teasing. So that that's G suite. I run my business on it. You can go from a company three way up to a whole college full of students. And everything in between. I think if you're in that position where you need management tools, you need software tools. It doesn't have to be a company, right? Like, I'm on the board of a nonprofit, we use G suite there, you know, and all sorts of people can can utilize this all the way down to you just wanna Email account with your company domain name on it. Five dollars a month is hard to beat. So I'm a fan. All right. You know? I am too. I don't use it. But I totally get it. And and I could see myself using it. And either way they've come a long way. I I've gotta finish this show now 'cause I download the updates. That's right. But we're the MAC power users. You can find this over and relayed FM slash NPR. If you've got some feedback on this stuff. The forums would be great place. You can find that over at talk dot back power users dot com. You can also find us on Twitter. We are at MC power users on Twitter, Steven tell people about what's going on over at five twelve pixels. Yeah. So if you're into apple history or just my take sort of on the larger apple kind of new cycle. I'm blogging there. And you can find me on Twitter at ice age over at mex- barky this week. I've got a couple posts queued up that'll be live by the time. The show goes up where I've been playing with apple mail. I went back to mill and I've been doing some cool apple scripting, even with some help of some listeners on some of it. And I've got a new apple script. Now that will get the first name automatically, even if they're their Email. It goes last name comma first name, oh nine apple script stuff there. And and I found an created a an apple script that will drop an Omni focus Lincoln anything. You know, focus has the little thing where you press keyboard, and it creates the link, but now you can drop it in you could drop it in a Google, doc or you could drop it in. A apple note or you can drop it in a calendar. That's cool. I've got some cool apple script stuff going up this week. So that'd be worth going chicken up. All right. So anyway, thanks for sponsors on me group. Same box, squarespace and Luna displaying. We'll see you next week.
Mac Power Users