20 Episode results for "Texaco"
S5 Ep5 | The Big Guns
"Com. Bombing. Cone does. This is Maria ending the an indigenous woman in Ecuador singing about the damage that oil companies have done to her community. She was the lead plaintiff in the case against Texaco Chevron Ecuador. It's usually referred to as the Nikkei's after her. In the decades since the case began, there have been various attempts alternately to lionize discredit her to cast her as a victim of the oil companies or as a pawn of the plaintiff's attorneys. There is a mountain of situations like this. In this case where one side says one thing the other side says the exact opposite thing and there's no way that both could be true. These sorts of things started to really pile up in two thousand, eight, five years after the case had initially kicked off again in Ecuador. Basically to close appeared require a different steps. This is Ricardo Reyes Fica who led chevrons legal team in Ecuador on this case, in this video with lots of cheesy sound effects, he's explaining the steps that Texaco took back in the nineteen nineties to remediate. It's drill sites in Ecuador, you have to take oil out. You had to clean the sludge. You had to drink the water and water out. You had to pass deaths of the water. You had to solidify of the base that you have to put new. Revision date around the same time that the keys against Chevron was filed in Ecuador in two thousand three. The Government of Ecuador filed a criminal complaint against Russia and another lawyer working for Chevron on the case Rodrigo pilots the complaint alleged that the two had falsified documents around Texaco's remediation work. You might recognize Peres palaces name from to he was the Texaco attorney meeting with the president at his Beach House to discuss the company's troubles back in nineteen, eighty, four in two, thousand and three. The government was questioning whether the nineteen ninety, eight documents. Releasing Texaco of all future liability for its operations in the country was the product of fraud that complaint was thrown out in two thousand six for lack of evidence and then refiled in two thousand eight at that point Vega and pilots were indicted for conspiracy to fraudulently certified Texaco's Clean Up Chevron says this was all rigged up by the plaintiffs and points to it as a clear indication that the government and the courts under President Rafael Korea were in cahoots with the plaintiffs that there was no way they could get a fair trial in Ecuador. Here's Randy Mastro an attorney who's been working on this case for Chevron Sense two, thousand, nine, he got Ecuadorian authorities. Without any basis whatsoever to bring criminal charges against two of the old Texaco lawyers. WHO WERE INVOLVED IN? Negotiating. The releases when Texaco left the country in the early nineties. Those two lawyers faced criminal charges, they couldn't even travel. One of them was a delete family in Ecuador. On bogus criminal charges they had done nothing wrong. The he and that sentence is doniger and it's striking how much mastro's description of what happened to these lawyers in Ecuador matches how doniger describes his situation today but come up travel I don't have a passport. CanNot. Leave my apartment. Just kind of he said he said has been going on for years in this case with each side, calling out the tactics of the other each side trying to get the other to flinch. In an outtake from a documentary about the case Danziger talks about this dynamic between legal teams. We have to keep pushing on all fronts at all times. That simple offense at all times. Push Push. It's just a matter force. It's pure. Force. Who can put the most pressure and who can resist? It's just like. All this bullshit about. Alarm facts you know yeah that factors into it because that affects the level of forced but the end of the day it is about force who can. Apply the pressure who can withstand the pressure. And can you get them to the breaking point? The only way to litigated case. Against, the power company. On behalf of people have no power. Pushing was happening in the legal sphere of course, as the case dragged on each side accused the other of obstruction and delay tactics. But both sides were also meeting with judges and playing politics both in the US and in Ecuador and the case was really playing out in the press. By two thousand in two, thousand nine, the plaintiffs seemed to be winning on all fronts. Welcome back to drilled season five Lucianne Lingua. This is for the Court of public opinion. If you haven't listened to the first three episodes, you're going to need to do that for this one to make any sense. Today, we're going to get into how this case played out in the press and how that played into the verdict in Ecuador Hall of that coming up right after this quick break. Every. Twenty six seconds. There's a break in in this country but with simplisafe home security, you can protect your whole home, the clock, it serious lasting protection, and all it takes is a simple thirty minutes setup. You'll even get a free security camera when you protect your home today more on that in a second simplisafe is an award-winning arsenal of sensors and security cameras that blanket every inch of your home. You Sat simplisafe up yourself in a few minutes without any tools or wiring, and no technicians or sales people have to set foot in your home. Then simply safe all monitor your home around the clock with with security professionals who are there in case of an emergency to immediately send help to your home plus there's no contracts, no hidden fees and no installation costs. 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Joined the over one million people taking charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional today better help dot com slash critical. Now back to the show. In Two thousand seven William Languish was getting ready to run a big feature in Vanity Fair on the case against Chevron in Lago Real. He had done his homework keep gone to the town and to the remediation sites he'd met various scientists he talked to the lawyers on both sides. The last thing he needed responses from Chevron to a list of technical questions with the list of questions that I sampled doncaster's help very tech talk was still were site specific. To remediation went and then what the findings were during the sort of opposing. Family the was done during the the court case. They said that they wanted to talk to me and they wanted me to come to asset book happy to talk to you but the only to those questions i. Seven years later, those questions became a weapon that Chevron used to question languishes journalistic integrity. Merely, because he asked Danziger for his input on them, which frankly is a little weird but languish explained that he needed. Don's Eggers in on some of the more technical questions for accuracy and that he was hoping don soccer could help him freeze the questions in such a way that Chevron would feel more compelled to answer at any rate. Here's what happened as he was working on the story. US questions yes or no tell me what you want your responses. You answer the questions I'm very happy. At that point for they never push answer the questions that were very specific questions. And then they went after Conde Nast, but they had great Carter. Ingrained Carter had balls screening Carter of course was the longtime editor of Vanity. Fair. Those are the days when visit who is the kind of the last years of great and Carter being like don't mess Brayden Carter so when the when the threat of loss came at when Chevron started pulling that stuff and threatening, you know basically sabre-rattling he stood up to it. And we went through we did go through a verification process. The the piece was in no sense affected by that process there was absolutely no stands for ships of any kind. Of. What did happen is that I in that peace had lines that were intentionally. Surreal. Anything it wasn't absolutely factual had to leave. The effect of that on the piece at the time I thought it basically told the Peacedale who wants to read this things it still. Has No life to it anymore, and maybe had that effect although recently and because of. You current troubles. I'm taking maybe six months ago i. read the piece again I think has put damn good piece if he wasn't as bad as I thought, it was at the time. Piece triggered an uptick in media attention on the case which kept building in two thousand eight then in April. That year the two Ecuadoreans who'd been leading a lot of the work on the ground. Lewis IANSA WE MATT in episode two and Pablo Fajardo were awarded the prestigious Goldman Environmental Prize. Controls he told us. A see must have. Any Simi Process for. US Young. Lucia for. Rachel's Alameda Aung dishonor yellow. WHO's this year? I happened to be living in San Francisco at that time and was actually at this award ceremony I remember Lewis and Pablo getting a standing ovation from the crowd. This is happening right chevrons backyard and they weren't super pleased about it. They took out a full page ad in San Francisco Chronicle Calling Fajardo and IANSA frauds but it didn't seem to work the press continued to stack up in favor of the plaintiffs. We WanNa, go to Ecuador where an epic lawsuit pits, American oil giant against a group of Indians from the Amazon rainforest and environmental activists. We turn out to Chevron the oil giant based in California that's being accused of promoting geopolitical blackmail its effort to stave off a lawsuit accusing it of contaminating the Ecuadoran Amazon rainforest. It's been many years now since residents of Atkin Response Chevron amped. Up It's PR and lobbying efforts. It's lobbyists began pushing against a tree deal that would benefit Ecuador and in an email dated September two, thousand, eight various Chevron PR folks are going back and forth with one of their terminal publicists, a guy named Chris Gita, who at the time was with the firm Helen Knowlton about a report that they're preparing the cast doubt on the Ecuadorian plaintiffs. On some of the That they've presented in this case. They're also cracking jokes about not wanting to eat anything that comes out of the water in Lago Agrio. A lot of the report that the PR team is working on and talking about in these emails seems to focus on the science. In the case as we heard last time, it's common in Ecuador for both plaintiffs and defendants to commission their own reports and submit those to the court and both sides. The plaintiffs hired a US firm called strategy consulting. Here's one of their experts Douglas Boatman talking to sixty minutes. It's a disgrace. They treated Ecuador like a trash heap little stream here. It's Doug. A on superfund sites in the US he's now the scientific expert for the People Suing Chevron. Are you saying that Texaco never could have gotten away with this in the United States absolutely not that it wouldn't have happened in the United States never had happened. They wouldn't have gotten away with leaving it here for thirty years, and here is a Chevron appointed expert, Pedro, Alvarez professor of civil and environmental engineering at Rice University when Texaco lift Equa Laura decides that it operated would consider represented are relatively safe scenario for with regards to potential impacts to human health both because of the measures that they took to contain and clean up any contamination and because of the nature of the contaminants, the have very little mobility there for. Realty to reach a potential receptor on the charge of lasting environmental damage that he's a vastly exaggerated. Uh Charge that is unsupported by the evidence. You can see why the judge might want a report from an independent expert, the court appointed a guy named Richard Cabrera. He was tasked with taking testing samples from all of the former while sites and drafting a report about which sites had been remediated, which sites were still contaminated and how much it would cost to clean everything up. He comes up a lot in this story from here on out including in chevrons PR emails. Just a couple of weeks after the Chevron Reps for about Cabrera, in this report chevrons longtime PR consultant Sam Singer Singer Associates sent the team a new strategy it breaks down into three key areas to focus on. One Corruption in Ecuador and Coulda as the strong man of Ecuador to. Counterattacks against the plaintiffs including questioning the funding and motives of Cabrera. Don's occur and Ecuadorian lawyer Pablo Fajardo. Three. Petroecuador is the real culprit. It's a full court press. There are four separate PR agencies including singers, and they're coordinating with chevrons PR team. It includes plans for all forms of media and advertising and even money for a front group or a singer puts it quote the US Chamber of Commerce or another think tank organization to create an organization solely devoted to addressing the issues of Ecuador and actively attacking its positions on business, the media, international loans, and socialist policies. But before the strategy could deliver results, the plaintiffs continued to pick up some wins first of bill extended trade benefits to Ecuador Peru Colombia and Bolivia a bill that Chevron had been lobbying against it past. Thank. You offer coming. I am pleased. That legislation extending the Andy and Trade Preference Act. Has made it to my desk and I'm looking forward to signing this piece of legislation. Then in two, thousand, nine, a documentary on the case called crude was announced. Locate on this. Paradise. Now has elapsed and destruction. Total. Area which Texaco voted March. The Chevron PR team was strategizing again and Chris Keita's wrote quote our Lt Long-term strategy is to demonize doniger. This film provides a great opportunity to do so. We end up. Takes us for the film came out sixty minutes aired its special on the case. These are people who never believed. They had a right to sue an American company and their own court system. Yeah. But you know what Chevron says they say that this is being driven by a New, York plaintiffs lawyer and they don't mean that as a compliment well aware that they've taken out advertisements Ecuador, impress with my name trying to attack my reputation. What do you think of that? Well, I think that it puts me in the membership frankly a very distinguished club of people. With the media narrative spiraling out of it's grasp Chevron brought in the big dogs, the law firm Gibson Dunn in fall two thousand nine. The firm was just wrapping up a landmark case for Dole, the food company which had been fighting a damages suit in Latin America for decades. Nicaraguan. Banana farmers had sued the company for knowingly spring their fields with a pesticide that causes sterilization they won in Nicaragua Court Gibson Dunne attorneys argued that that court had no jurisdiction over Dole an American company. When did you get involved in the case? What year? Late Two thousand, nine, early, two, thousand, ten. That's Randy Mastro. Again, he led Gibson Dunn's work for Chevron on the keys in Ecuador. Okay. And what were you know? What was sort of the task? Gibson Dunne was. Asked to join the. Team of outside counsel. Representing. Chevron. In connection with. The Litigation in Ecuador and in connection with. Trying, to find out. The truth about what was going on in Ecuador. By this point, not only was the media tipping in favor of the plaintiffs but president could coulda had been publicly supportive of the suit as well. Louis theon Song Ecuador says it wasn't even so much that was a great friend to the plaintiffs. He just wasn't as much in the pocket of oil companies as previous Ecuadorian presidents had been. Mobile Uris. See Him break his thyroid. Sally Saddles of Hobbled Company. Previous. Governments were always biased in favor of the company. He says. Is the most macho sexiness. In we had to have a lot of actions in keep go with marches, meetings, press conferences, meetings with politicians, all of that which. Which? Bottom elderly. A A lot a lot of work to neutralize the government just so they didn't bow completely to the company when could was elected though NBC Asana him you said, you're Gwenda he visited the area and talked to the people and realized the magnitude of the damage the company had done and that the struggle we had been carrying out for more than a decade was just host and he decided to support it he in this deal for Yemen. And on top of all that in two thousand, eight, Ecuador had ratified a new constitution. One gave equal rights to indigenous people and that included a radical new idea the rates of nature. Ecuador is the first country to include these rights in its constitution. At some point, we're GONNA do a whole season on rights of nature because it's fascinating and it's really become an interesting new legal tool but in broad strokes, if you think about private property rights and how they ascribe control over nature to whatever human has purchased, this piece of land rights of Nature says, forget that nature has its own rights. All life forms have the right to exist and to continue living, and here's where it gets interesting from a legal perspective. It says that legally we the people have authority to enforce these rights on behalf of ecosystems. The ecosystem it's self can be named as the defendant. It's hard to imagine Chevron or really any oil company being happy about this kind of thing. and. So in two thousand, nine with multiple PR firms and a new legal team on board, the company started to tell a different story. A bitter environmental lawsuit against Chevron. The second largest oil company in the United States appears to be entering. It's critical phase in Ecuador. I. They. Hired former. Reporter gene randall to host a mirror image version of the sixty minutes documentary with their side of the story. Chevron asked toxicologist Thomas Makita to study the issue the health effects that burn reported are attributable to exposure to bacteria, which is widespread in the drinking water sources. They're not attributable to petroleum exposure. No doubt about that. There's no doubt in my mind despite the claims that's correct. There are fears such findings may be trumped by politics. Ecuador's President Rafael Correa loudly supports the case against. Chevron. A craze instigation with the support of the Amazon Defense Coalition Seven Ecuadorian officials who signed Texaco's environmental liability release face criminal charges. He's talking about the attorneys we mentioned at the top of this episode, Ricardo Re's Bega and Rodrigo Perez Polaris along with seven Ecuadorian officials, they were accused of tampering with a release form that had become pretty central to chevrons defense. In this case shortly, after that nineteen ninety, four meeting, we mentioned in episode two where Texaco's lawyer was meeting with the president and various environment ministers. The government came to an agreement with Texaco about remediation. Here's Chevron spokesperson can't Robertson explaining that arrangement to NPR in late two, thousand, eat Texaco held a thirty seven percent interest in in the consortium with its majority partner being Petroecuador Texaco is not operated in Ecuador. For eighteen years. When it was time for Texaco to depart Ecuador. The the party sat down and worked out a remediation program. We're Texaco would address its proportionate share of the consortium. Thirty seven point, five percent and Petroecuador assumed responsibility for the balance of the operations. In nine hundred, Ninety, eight after they had remediated thirty seven point, five percent of the pollution. Texaco. submitted documentation to the government and the government signed a document releasing the company from any further cleanup. Again, the argument the plaintiffs make and that the lawyer and researcher Judith Curling made as well is that Texaco was the operator and that means they set everything up and they taught everyone how to. Do Things. They created the oil industry in Ecuador and they set a low standard for environmental responsibility I asked Randy. Mastro about that, we've heard people kind of float this idea of like, yes. Okay. Technically Petroecuador has been doing all of this stuff but you know it was Texaco who them, and it's Texaco built the whole system what what is the response to that kind of line of thought Wow that that is revisionist history and You know. Trying to put the blame where it doesn't belong. Texaco got kicked out of the country. Starting in nineteen ninety, Texaco spent. You know back in the early nineties. Shorty plus million dollars on remediation and and other relief and. An. In those days that was a lot of money. an independent testing services confirm the Texaco did what it was supposed to do. Like of things in this story, this is Kinda true if you squinted it for long enough Texaco began exploring for oil in Ecuador in nineteen sixty four. Thanks to an agreement with the military who does that controlled the country at the time. The struck black gold in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, seven at that time. Texaco. was in a partnership with Gulf oil and both companies were eventually acquired by Chevron. In nineteen seventy four Ecuador formed a state owned oil company, which would later become Petroecuador Texaco and Gulf. Each gave up a portion of their ownership to the new state oil company, and then in nineteen seventy seven Petroecuador bought Gulf out. and. They became the majority shareholder Texaco retained ownership of thirty seven point five percent of the concession. That's why that number keeps cropping up. But it continued to be the operator overall of all of the consortium explosion and Production Assets Intel nineteen ninety in September nineteen eighty-eight Petroecuador alerted Texaco that it intended to take over as operator by nineteen ninety. In Nineteen Ninety text pat and Petroecuador into an agreement to transition operations of the oilfields from Tex- PAT to Petro Amazonas. Texaco retained its minority stake in the concession until its original contract expired in nineteen, Ninety two and in nineteen ninety four. Texaco's lawyer was being flown in Petroecuador is plain to the president's beach. House. which doesn't exactly sound like they were kicked out of Ecuador. Here's Mastro again. So a professional. and. Company expert in doing these things got kicked out of the country and remediated the wells that it was responsible for at at every level of the Ecuadorian government on their releases for that activity. than. Over the next twenty years. Because Ecuador kicked Texaco out of the country, only Petroecuador drills and spills. No oversight none of the. Kind of. Professionalism that Might be expected. You know just drilling and spilling to make money for. Ecuador. Just a reminder here's Judith Kimberlin on what she saw when Texaco was drilling professionally in the Ecuadorian Amazon in the nineteen eighties. The company had just dug a hole in the ground, dump their toxic drilling ways and abandoned it in the rainforest, and when you abandon toxic waste in the rainforests, some of its seats into the ground you get a lot of rain. So it overflows into the surrounding areas and I was appalled all Mastro and his firm were hired in late two, thousand, nine, the sixty minutes special had come out. Ecuadorian attorneys Louis IANSA and Public Fajardo. Ve had gotten the Goldman Environmental Prize. Ecuadorian President Rafael Korea had voiced public support for the case and the Constitution of. had been changed to include the rights of nature a documentary about the case by an award winning filmmaker was about to debut at Sundance. And the balance of power in this case. was about to shift again. Extreme No Way. Would he would any rational person? He's very rational. Jeopardize things by cutting corners. He didn't bribe anyone. He has a big mouth and he mouthed off this guy. Chill your. To do over, I would advise my client to completely protest the trial and unfortunately steven didn't have that option. Stephen Lives in New York and he subject to the jurisdiction of the court and he has to end the case. But my clients did have that option and that was not a card we chose to play. You know I'm not trying to encourage you guys to focus on. The misconduct I think that's what Chevron wants us to all be. But the point I want to make is that you know while I think that the actions against Stephen Excessive, I think that he's just a victim because he's a human rights to enter. That narrative is very simplistic. drooled an original production of the critical frequency podcast network. It's created and reported by me. Any westervelt micro reporter on this season is carrying savage. Our editor is Julia Richie. The shows aditorial consultant is Rica Murthy Mixing, and mastering by Marc Busch original score by be beeman special. Thanks to Larussa, etc Trevor Gowan, and Emily Gertz. Our fact Checker is within your in our First Amendment Attorney is James Wheaton with the First Amendment Project our work. For this season was created by the talented Matt. Fleming, if you are a Patriot subscriber, thank you your money is helping to make the season as a special. Thank you. We will be putting bonus content in the page feed and also releasing episodes. Early there if you're not a member and you want to support our work, please check out patriot dot com slash drilled. That's it for this time. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week. Boone. Missing America is the story of what happens when the United States under trump abdicates our role as an example for the World Ben Rhodes who served as the deputy national security advisor to President Obama hosts the show and speaks to inspiring leaders and activists who are fighting to take up the slack in America's absence in a world where nationalism Abreu, -Tarian Ism and disinformation taken hold like never before. This Week ben talks to several climate activists including former Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd to ask can the biggest threat to the entire world bring the entire world together in their penultimate episode bed examines the enormous obstacles confronting climate change and how progressives in other countries have made. Headway Missing America is a nine part limited podcast series from crooked media, find it on Apple podcasts spotify or wherever you listen to your shows.
New Series: The World Beneath
"Treasure what does your minds. I conjure when you hear that word treasure swashbuckling. Pirates sailing ships across the high seas burying their chests of gold in a secret. Call then leaving a map behind. Where x marks the spot. Or can you see the all american crime lords who amassed a treasure so vast they created a second economy buried in a network of vice with 'cause of offshore accounts hiding the secrets of nation states and a map to find. That takes you through a wilderness of spies. That story began over a century ago. When our nation's legendary mobsters landscape luchino capone built an industry and economy a treasure that by the mid century was worth more than general motors standard. Oil ford general electric chrysler. Ibm mobiloil texaco and us deal combined and like proper pirates. The even did it. We ships lots and lots of ships. The new podcast series. The world beneath is an audio landscape that tells the hundred year history behind that treasure in season. One we bring you twenty. Epoch episodes that chart a course back in time to capture the characters and moments that echo through our world today. And you'll be able to binge the entire season at once all twenty episodes ad. Free on apple's new podcast. Subscriptions from imperative entertainment. This is the world beneath the story of mobsters and spies setting sale on june. Twenty eight twenty twenty one. Listen on apple podcasts. or wherever get your shows.
New Series: The World Beneath
"Treasure what does your minds. I conjure when you hear that word treasure swashbuckling. Pirates sailing ships across the high seas burying their chests of gold in a secret. Call then leaving a map behind. Where x marks the spot. Or can you see the all american crime lords who amassed a treasure so vast they created a second economy buried in a network of vice with 'cause of offshore accounts hiding the secrets of nation states and a map to find. That takes you through a wilderness of spies. That story began over a century ago. When our nation's legendary mobsters landscape luchino capone built an industry and economy a treasure that by the mid century was worth more than general motors standard. Oil ford general electric chrysler. Ibm mobiloil texaco and us deal combined and like proper pirates. The even did it. We ships lots and lots of ships. The new podcast series. The world beneath is an audio landscape that tells the hundred year history behind that treasure in season. One we bring you twenty. Epoch episodes that chart a course back in time to capture the characters and moments that echo through our world today. And you'll be able to binge the entire season at once all twenty episodes ad. Free on apple's new podcast. Subscriptions from imperative entertainment. This is the world beneath the story of mobsters and spies setting sale on june. Twenty eight twenty twenty one. Listen on apple podcasts. or wherever get your shows.
New Series: The World Beneath
"Treasure what does your minds. I conjure when you hear that word treasure swashbuckling. Pirates sailing ships across the high seas burying their chests of gold in a secret. Call then leaving a map behind. Where x marks the spot. Or can you see the all american crime lords who amassed a treasure so vast they created a second economy buried in a network of vice with 'cause of offshore accounts hiding the secrets of nation states and a map to find. That takes you through a wilderness of spies. That story began over a century ago. When our nation's legendary mobsters landscape luchino capone built an industry and economy a treasure that by the mid century was worth more than general motors standard. Oil ford general electric chrysler. Ibm mobiloil texaco and us deal combined and like proper pirates. The even did it. We ships lots and lots of ships. The new podcast series. The world beneath is an audio landscape that tells the hundred year history behind that treasure in season. One we bring you twenty. Epoch episodes that chart a course back in time to capture the characters and moments that echo through our world today. And you'll be able to binge the entire season at once all twenty episodes ad. Free on apple's new podcast. Subscriptions from imperative entertainment. This is the world beneath the story of mobsters and spies setting sale on june. Twenty eight twenty twenty one. Listen on apple podcasts. or wherever get your shows.
New Series: The World Beneath
"Treasure what does your minds. I conjure when you hear that word treasure swashbuckling. Pirates sailing ships across the high seas burying their chests of gold in a secret. Call then leaving a map behind. Where x marks the spot. Or can you see the all american crime lords who amassed a treasure so vast they created a second economy buried in a network of vice with 'cause of offshore accounts hiding the secrets of nation states and a map to find it that takes you through a wilderness of spies. That story began over a century ago. When our nation's legendary mobsters landscape luchino capone built an industry and economy a treasure that by the mid century was worth more than general motors standard. Oil ford general electric chrysler. Ibm mobiloil texaco and us deal combined and like proper pirates. The even did it. We ships lots and lots of ships. The new podcast series. The world beneath is an audio landscape that tells the hundred year history behind that treasure in season. One we bring you twenty. Epoch episodes that chart a course back in time to capture the characters and moments that echo through our world today. And you'll be able to binge the entire season at once all twenty episodes ad. Free on apple's new podcast. Subscriptions from imperative entertainment. This is the world beneath the story of mobsters and spies setting sale on june. Twenty eight twenty twenty one. Listen on apple podcasts. or wherever get your shows.
S5 Ep3 | The Trial
"It was. Three and the Ecuadorian plaintiffs had just agreed to refill their case against Chevron Texaco down in Ecuador. At the center of this case were these waste pits. unlined pits were Texaco would dump toxic wastewater from oil drilling when the case was first filed in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, three, New York Texaco said it had cleaned up its fair share anything left was Petro Ecuador's mass. The plaintiff said the cleanup was no good and the Texaco had overseen all operations and should clean it all. That it should be based on who did what not? Who got what percentage of the Prophets. Ten years later, the arguments hadn't changed the defendant had. Chevron's acquisition of Texaco. was complete in two thousand one and it had inherited this case as part of that acquisition. Today, we're going to look at what happened next as the trial got underway in Ecuador. Episode is brought to you by better help. We all have a lot of things interfering with happiness and work and productivity these days. I know climate anxiety hasn't been helping lately especially here in California where we've had about one free day in the last month and things are feeling pretty apocalyptic. It's been super helpful for me to have the assistance of my better help therapists. That's better help H. E. L. P.. If you'd like to talk to someone better helpless us your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist. If you're a working parent like me or probably finding that any hours not spent parenting are working hard to combined. That is something I really appreciate about better help I can just send messages when I have time, which is usually in the middle of the night visit better help that's better h. e. l. p dot com slash critical, and join the over one million people taking charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional today special offer for critical frequency network listeners you'll get ten percent off your first month. If you go to better help dot com slash critical now back to the show. I want to tell you about another climate change podcast. Broken ground is podcast by the southern environmental law center that's digging up environmental stories in the south. The latest season of the podcast explores how southerners living along the coast are navigating sea level rise as they race against the clock through personal stories and firsthand accounts. Listeners learn how all along the changing Atlantic shores. Communities. And individuals are meeting the challenges with determination to address this crisis head on how will people on the frontlines protect themselves from the immediate and impending threats of rising tides. How to our social inequities come floating to the surface and communities battling flooding and storms find out this season on broken ground available at broken ground podcast, dot org or wherever you get your partner. A bunch of people told us that if we wanted to understand what the oil pollution in the Amazon really looks like we had to talk. To Donald Mikhail, he was born and raised right at the epicenter. Number is Guy You the. Those, those metal and he was born about two hundred meters from the second. Well, Texaco drilled in the Amazon on your words the impact within. In nineteen, sixty seven. I'm new Westervelt and this is drilled season five Luchino. This is episode three, the trial. If you haven't to episodes one end to go back and do that. This is one of those seasons you're going to have to listen to the episodes in order to keep up. All right American. Attorney Steven Danziger would partner up with Ecuadorian attorneys who file the case in the courts there win the case started kicking off in. Ecuador in two thousand and three Donald Keough was the guy who would lead court officials and any visiting press on what the plaintiffs called the quote unquote toxic tour showing them abandoned waste pits and pools of oil people who took that tour would have heard him say something like. He including all of this h stokes because what does work was cannot beginning Ning wounded would remain. In short, all the toxic waste was released into these unlined pits. Also, they put in a curved tube said that the pit would not overflow and the whale would settle on either side. They called these tubes Goose Nex Nosotros Mama where your. UNC this. Grants Dose Reuse Love Win One hundred percent of these goose snacks will towards rivers, lagoons, or streams. So all that toxic waste are pumping out would disappear into the lagoons, rivers or streams a missile. In the For the Rio's poor decky. Sir those of us who were at the lower part of the river, we had no drinkable water and still today there's no drinkable water in the countryside. Stephen Doniger had I gone to Ecuador in Nineteen Ninety three to help with research. This case he saw a lot of the things that Mounkailla talks about. Just almost. Unimaginable. The degree of clean should. Open air toxic waste pits that have been deliberately gouge out at the jungle. Also nineteen ninety-three. The original case was filed against Texaco in New York at same year the US signed a bilateral investment treaty with Ecuador. These trees basically exists to protect US companies that are doing business and other countries and to boost American exports. One important thing they provide is access to international arbitration a separate system that allows the parties to circumvent local courts. Marcos Adriana is an expert on this. He teaches law at American University and is the UN special reporter on toxics and human rights. Trash investments arbitration can be described as a private system of adjudication. The decides on on the propriety of governmental measures, but it lacks the safeguards for accountability and transparency that characterise constitutional democracies governed by the rule of law. We look back in time in its origins. International vestments arbitration came replace colonial systems, colonial systems of extraction of domination in other words once it was companies rather than countries that became the colonizers in the world, they needed a new system. When the former colonies are independence in the advent of decolonization largely after the Second World War the advent of the United Nations. The former imperial powers needed a legal system to protect the economic interests of the corporations and international investment arbitration offered such alternative. Today in this current day of age many civil society see the arbitration regime as as yet another tool of corporate globalization. And this is because when governments regulate in the public interest, they become the targets corporations that utilize the arbitration system to challenge those acts of authority the US Ecuador Investment Treaty went into effect in Nineteen ninety-seven. So by the time, this case that was originally filed ends Texaco in New York in nineteen ninety three was refiled against Chevron in Ecuador in two thousand three the system Oriana describes was very much in effect. On top of that Lucio Gutierrez was president. Gutierrez had been elected as something of an anti-corporate revolutionary but within the first few months of his presidency, he had become very pro-trade and particularly cozy with the United States. None of that boded well for the indigenous plaintiffs seeking compensation for the damage that had been done in the Amazon in two thousand to the appellate court in New York had ruled that the case against Texaco which was now ChevronTexaco. In Ecuador but the New York court said any final ruling and financial penalty imposed against Chevron Texaco would be enforceable in the united. States we filed and there was a hearing very first day. You show up. In both sides presented their case, their theory of the case, the very first day. In on that day, I'll never forget Texaco's or chevrons lawyer local lawyer. Is. Name. Is Awful Koa us. On been with the company for years and years read their response to our lawsuit. Every word of it must've taken in hours. You know. and. That told me two things. One is their entire strategy was obstruction and delay like you don't need to read every word of a hundred page document, you just could have summarized. Number two is a main defense was that they were denying that the Ecuadorian courts had jurisdiction because they Chevron. Even an even though they had bought Texaco. Texaco the did not debt. So they had agreed in the US as a condition of getting the case out of US court and avoiding jury trial. They degree they would accept jurisdiction in Ecuador in the first thing they did on the first day of the trial is to claim the case should be dismissed because of a lack of jurisdiction in holy Moses I mean. I just couldn't believe it. I mean, maybe I was naive but like how do you argue one thing in one place and then you go to that other court where you you're bound by your promise and you just try to switch it on the first day the request for dismissal was denied and the trial got underway in two thousand, three trials in Ecuador work a lot differently than they do in the US, they run according to the civil law system also sometimes called the Roman system whereas the US got legal system called the common law system from the UK key difference lies in jury trials we caught up Alejandro, an expert on Latin American law to explain. A one aspect of American exceptionalism which I think is truly exceptional is the jury system in noncriminal cases in cases like in the Chevron case even England, which is another country from where the United States copy the jury system abolish it mean the nineteenth century and there are no more jury civil cases jury cases in England the initial hearing in the Chevron trial in Ecuador only lasted six days both. Sides presented their case directly to a judge, but in Ecuador, it's the judges responsibility to figure out the truth in legal cases to investigate figure things out and that can take months or years we had done a girl walks through that first day in court in Lago Agrio. So you know I'll never forget the first day of the trial in Ecuador dislike never forget my first trip you know nineteen ninety-three. it was first day the trial was in in October but the first day was really important because. The affected communities, indigenous groups there's five indigenous groups that were part of the lawsuit and a lot of other non-indigenous Amazon communities they organized to come in from all over the surrounding you know Amazon rainforest. By Canoe and bus and walking. You know. However, they could get to this town where the trial was going to be held the town's called Lago Agrio. which has so much symbolic importance because the only reason Lago Agrio exists is because that's the place Texaco I found oil. In one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, seven there were very few people in the courtroom initially in the morning which Danziger thought was strange. He thought maybe the guards scared some of the plaintiffs off or maybe they just weren't used to being able to go into the courtroom. It was a very kind of wild west town and that's where the trial was convening. In a building, it was like a commercial building that was rented out by the local court. to have a court, they're the people that come in from all over the Amazon and they had organized this big march. They were pictures and signs who St Stevia everyone was. Dressed up in traditional clothing I got to the court in. The building that housed the court the courtroom was upstairs may be three flights of stairs and the first thing I saw was these armed guards look like Swat teams from the military that were standing guard outside the court. In as the morning wore on the. Chevron lawyer KS started reading this really boring opposition to started to take hours. I was like wait a second. You know I can't wait for there to be a lunch break because I'm going down to the street and I'm going to bring everyone up into court. In. Probably. Around I don't know eleven thirty in the morning late morning when we're soon about to break. I, suddenly hear this like rising chant from the street. You know all sorts of chances noise and it was like crescendo like building nor Crescendo. You could hear the noise rising and rising. And it made me feel so good because I knew exactly what it was I. Know it was the people affected. After decades abuse. Were coming to assert themselves and kind of let it all out. By, bad. I mean there had to be hundreds maybe thousand two thousand people in this little street. George Street right in front of the courthouse and they were standing on trucks and there were microphones. I. Started talking to some of the people who would travel from incestuous this town. Why aren't you guys in the courtroom? Could come up with. Come. Come up with me. In Many of them look like oh We can go into court. Like. Yeah It's your country. It's your court. It's your case. Yes, you can come. When went back in I'm wash up the stairs with you know who knows how many people? Behind me genus women. WHO Traditional clothing all sorts of people in just pack the hell out of that courtroom. And you know it was really an emotional a. Chevron had entertained ideas that this case would move to Ecuador and be forgotten Donner's media savvy took care of that reporters flew in from all over the world met with Doniger and the Dorian attorneys took the toxic tour with Moncayo and sent reports back home. Here's a clip from NPR's all things considered as the trial got underway in October two, thousand three in northern Ecuador, a trial is underway. Against Chevron Texaco, the civil suit accuses the company of contaminating the groundwater of a formerly pristine area of the Amazon, the Ecuadorians who factor that initial sixty trial ended the court and both legal teams brought in various experts to conduct field investigations to determine the extent of contamination in the areas where the plaintiffs lived and whether or not the cleanup that Texaco had done back in the nineties was sufficient. The court gathered various other pieces of information to including historical information on whether or not. It really was common practice in the oil industry to dump waste water in unlined pits, Tim, Logan grow the geologist and longtime oil industry worker we heard from last time was pretty emphatic that it was not. You would never put wastewater in unlined pit. Never. Everyone knows that toxic water. Putting that into a rainforest. They had tarps in those days to impermeable vinyl sheeting. It's just normal has been forever but given how long the case had been going on by this point in how much time had passed since Texaco had left the country, the trial dragged on and on one year than it was two years, three years in December two, thousand, six more than three years after the trial had started in Lago Agrio Chevron filed a complaint against the Government of Ecuador for failing to resolve cases quickly that complaint was in reference to a different set of cases complaints that. Had brought up back in the nineties but the message was clear speeded up already or we'll see you in arbitration on top of all of the obvious reasons. Chevron may have wanted to officially complain about the Ecuadorian court system. There was a major change around this time in the country's under shape but. Filed. By. In the run-up to the election of RUFFEA Korea in November two, thousand, six various business analysts in think tanks in the US. warned that if he were elected Ecuador would go the way of Venezuela and Bolivia turning against US corporate interests among other concerns was the fact that could Ahah was staunchly against extending the bilateral investment treaty with the US which was set to expire at the end of two, thousand six even fairly mainstream media outlets like NPR played into the idea that was the scary second coming of Chavez yesterday's balloting reduced field of thirteen to two men one, a banana tycoon, the other left-wing. Supporter of Venezuela's President Google Chevette ELVIRA. Noboa. Who wrested control of his family's banana business to become one of Ecuador's wealthiest men held a slight lead through the night running a close second was wrong. Korea. A former economy minister who challenged the Political Orthodoxy advocating cheap credit for the poor and renegotiation of all foreign oil contracts. By this point, Texaco had long since pulled out of Ecuador and Chevron was doing business there either in fact they never had but still a president that was promising to renegotiate foreign oil contracts, Astara really what you want when you're a US oil company defending yourself in Ecuador's courts. It would be another five years before the judge in Ecuador would rule on the case against Chevron and a lot would happen in the meantime. Next time on drilled, we hear from the other attorneys in this case, talking to you about mobilizing put people in front of the courthouse, the thousand people out of the courthouse to pressure, and he's saying literally up the pressure of the judge ramp to make him know who's boss. chevrons attorneys. Accusations of fraud and bribery fly on both sides and an incredible international PR war kicks into gear. The sequoias took us to their community hut where we saw the driving force behind the suit Stephen Danziger a New York lawyer far from. These are people who never believed. They had a right to sue an American company in their own court system. But you know what Chevron says they say that this is being driven by a New York plaintiffs lawyer and they don't mean that as a compliment. Drilled is an original production of critical frequency podcast network. The show was created by me. Amy Westervelt this season my coach reporter is Karen Savage. Our editor is Julia Ritchie Sound Design and mixing by Marc Busch. Original score by be Beeman additional production help from Sarah Entry special things to Larussa Ikeda things to NPR for some of the clips used in this episode. Artwork for this season was drawn by Matt Fleming, you can find corresponding stories, photos and documents for this season on our website at drilled news dot com. If you are a Patriot subscriber. Your support is helping to make this season and as a special. Thank you. If you would like to get next week's episode early, go check your feet because it's there now. If, you're listening to this and you're not a patriots subscriber and you can't wait for next week's episode. Go ahead and sign up. It's Patriot dot com slash drilled. Thanks for that, and thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.
Short Stuff: Lake Peigneur
"The. Hey there and welcome to the short stuff. I'm josh. And there's Chuck and there's Jerry death talking. Let's get started. Let's let's travel my friend to not only Louisiana Louisiana in nineteen eighty can you imagine which I believe the drinking age back, then was still probably eighteen I think so too. It wasn't. They held out the longest, and they they did. And the feds were like well kiss kiss decent roads goodbye to our will states rights. Oh, goodness. Who knew that was gonna come up in their own me. So in in Louisiana in IB perish around the town of new Iberia. There is a lake Chuck. And it's still there today the prising too difficult. It will become surprising that it's still there shortly as cold lake pin year P E, I G N E R lake Pinior. Okay. Yes. And in November of nineteen eighty which is where we are right now. There was like some Texaco contractors who were doing some exploratory drilling in lake Pinior and lake pen year was really really big how many acres thirteen hundred acres. I mean, at least like five or six acres thirteen hundred acres of land. But only eleven feet deep. Yeah. That was like, I think one of the deepest points. I think the average was just a handful of feet. So really really wide. But really really shallow the threat like the other, right? The other point about that is that lake Pinior set on top of what's called the salt dome. It's an accumulation of salt that builds up underneath the ground. And there is a company called the diamond crystal salt company, and they like to mind for salt around lake Pinior and all this is going on at the same the same time on the same day in November that the Texaco exploratory crew was drilling down through lake Pinior looking for gas deposits. That's right. And I think you see where this might be headed. But the details of the story are so bonkers. It's so nuts. It's just crazy. So Texaco's is drilling in their probing the floor and their drill all of a sudden just seizes up and stops about twelve hundred or so feet below the surface. So if you remember this lake is only eleven feet deep. So they are far far far far far below this lake. And I said that that's interesting. This doesn't usually happen. Yes. What happens when your drill? Get stuck in something you try and work at loose a little bit, which if it shallow. It's no big deal when it's that deep. It's a little bit different. Because you can't see what's going on. And all of a sudden these workers heard, you know, pup buoying little Rupe? And this big rig. All of a sudden starts tilting toward the water. And they're like this is not good guys. Rigs are not supposed to tilt. No, no. And this thing it's a five million dollar drill. And it starts to sink in it starts to buck. And it starts to move. And all these dudes are like all right? This is not good at all. So we're going to release ourself release these barges that are attached. We're gonna get outta here. And we're gonna get on shore, which they did. Right. So they got out of there. They made it safely, but as their onshore like trying to figure out what is going on. This is really weird. They're leaning rig search to kind of tip further and further into the water. And surely at some point, I if it's just a few feet of water should stop and stay above the water. But these guys were really surprised when they saw that the rig kept going underwater in underwater, and then it just disappeared from sight. Could you imagine? No, I can't. But as they're sitting there scratching their heads over this one. They notice that a there was a world pool that was starting to form to sell a little bit of first around the point where the oil the the drill rig had just disappeared. And then it started to come into view, I guess in their minds. I what did just happened, and they realized pretty quickly that they exit drilled all the way down into one of the main shafts of the salt mines twelve thirteen hundred feet below lake Pinior. And now there is a whole connecting the air above the lake and the whole underneath the lake with a lot of water in between just waiting to get in. Yes. This will is growing and growing adventure grows in front of their eyeballs to a quarter of a mile diameter that is so enormous. It's so enormous. In the meantime, down in the salt mine, there's an electric named Junius Gattison. He heard bang pop. Buoying news like that doesn't sound good. And all of a sudden muddy water starts rushing in and it's bringing fuel drums along the mineshaft. And he was like this is not good. He calls in an alarm, which is three blinks of the light. He heads out. All the workers are like all right? We know what three blinks of a light means. That means we need to drop everything and get outta here in these fifty or so dudes are fifteen feet underground. I'm sorry. Fifteen hundred feet underground fifteen feet would be Novick deal. I'd be like refined. And they start getting up to higher levels and higher levels where they can get to these elevators to get him out. They get to the third level. And it's blocked by these rising waters on the surface. It's like something out of Bill the bible or an x files episode or something what was originally a fourteen inch hole in the ground in this mine starts to fill up with water and all of a sudden water hit salt, and that starts dissolving dissolving right all these columns of salt supporting these caves and tunnels start dissolving in this whole mind starts collapsing in front of everyone's face and check all that water. That's flowing through dissolving away the salt that was like three and a half billion gallons of water. So it's a substantial amount of water serving to fill up that salt mine underneath and and as the waters sinking down from the lake it's during the flood upward toward the bottom of the lake which doesn't happen very often in Louisiana or anywhere else. Really? All right. I think we should take a break. We'll come back and finish this amazing story right after this. Hey, folks, did you know that the information in our DNA goes way beyond what color is our whether a Harris Kearlier straight. Honestly, our DNA can influence so much of ourselves. We don't even think about everything from our caffeine consumption or muscle composition to our genetic weight. And everyone season two of spit a podcast from iheartradio twenty three and me discusses the power of genetic testing to reveal all that and more resulting in a deeper understanding of ourselves in the world around us. That's right. Chuck hosted by Barra. Tunde Thurston episodes of spent explorer health, our wellness, and how we are starting to look at the world of genetics around chronic illnesses like type two diabetes. That's right season. One featured guests like John legend, Melissa Ethridge, plus experts to break down the science behind it all season to kick off with conversations with Tim McGraw recorded live from the south by southwest podcast stage. Have you spit with twenty three and me. No more about your DNA and how you can commit to a healthier. You. Check out full episodes of spit on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. John. Jim. This is an amazing stray love this story. It's one of my all time favorites. All right. So below the surface there these miners trying to get out they finally get up to level three where they can access these elevators. But there's a ton of high water blocking the route they're using mine carts and and vehicles powered by diesel to try and push their way through in eventually all those fifty miners. Eight dudes at a time are able to get into these elevators that carry them to the surface, and it's not like a speedy elevator. Imagine the waiting as waters rising for the elevator to come back. Was some seriously scary stuff? Yeah. I mean eight at a time there's fifty of them down there. And the elevator slows Christmas. I can't imagine how stressful that must've been and like did you decide who went, you know? I mean, scary stuff. So as the miners are starting to slowly come up. Like eight by eight above ground backup on the surfaces lake. There's like this this this huge hole has opened up where the world Peul was and the section from the world Peul has sucked the Gulf of Mexico in. Now, there's three and a half billion gallons of lake pin year to begin with. But that world pull that created suck the water from Dell cambric canal that connects the Gulf of Mexico and lake Pinior suck the Gulf of Mexico into the lake and eleven barges that happened to be in this miles long canal got sucked into lake pin year. And that's just sucked into lake Pinior sucked down the whirlpool into the salt. Mines underground. Yes. So eleven barges gulp, Jefferson island seventy big golden another drilling platform. Gulp this little tugboats out there. God bless this little tugboat just doing everything it can. To get out of there and fight that current full power to get basically suck down a looks like toilet. Probably. These dudes are like, I don't think we're gonna make it. So they managed to get the sing over close enough to the Bank to jump off. And then by tugboat gulp. Yeah. Imagine that like seeing the tugboat like you're a tugboat is pretty strong man in the idea of not being able to fight this current that just tells you how strong that world ple was so there goes the tugboat there goes eleven barges oil Derrick a lot of Jefferson island and finally after oh one there was one other thing. So this may the whole thing even more biblical Chuck. There was a lot of air down there in these underground mine shafts, and it's the water filled up the mine chefs and displaced the air that air came shooting pressurized up to the surface. And so every once in a while like a geyser would shoot off like four hundred feet into the air right out of lake Pinior. Is that your fact of of the show that's one of them? I think this whole thing is one big factor the show because here's mine. Okay. So what happens when you suck stuff down there? And then eventually things going to fill up. It's not just going to fill up the entire center of the earth with water eventually disolve mine's gonna fill up, and it's going to sort of regulate equalize that eventually happens. Three point five billion gallons of water drain in three hours, and then over the next couple of days that lake level eventually reaches that, original waterline, and then over and over nine of these barges come pop back up like a cork that you've been holding underwater. Just boom, boom, boom all these things just keep popping back up. It must've been amazing to see that to see a bar. Just come popping up out of the water not about though. No, no tugboat. And I think to the barges are still trapped down there along with the tugboat in those. The collapse salt mine somewhere. Yeah. I guess they're just wedged in there. Yep. So the the fact that the lake Pinior sucked the Gulf of Mexico into the lake. The fact that the salt mines collapsed lake Pinior was completely changed by this. Here's here's here's the actual fact of the puck is not one person lost their life. Or was seriously injured de-miners made it out the guys from the tugboat from the oil drill rig. Everybody made it out. Nobody was on Jefferson island. I got sucked into the world pool. Not one person died from this most colossal disaster, which is a standing, but the lake itself was changed to it went for being a freshwater lake to a saltwater lake and one that was you know, a handful of feet deep to about two hundred feet deep now. Yeah, it was initially like really really deep, but that eventually spread out in. I guess. Settled on two hundred feet as a good new depth. Right. They had to pay out Texaco. Of course had to pay out. You know, many millions of dollars to the salt mine company and other various companies around there that got destroyed all these houses. Of course, you know, the lake really really grew not only in depth but in size, right? So today, it's you know, basically sort of brackish saline lake you can see like closer the shoreline like chimneys of houses that still pop above the surface. That's crazy. Yeah. It's really an amazing story and all of this happened because the Texaco engineer mistook one kind of map coordinates for another in miscalculated where the salt mine was when they were drilling. I'm surprised to hear that an oil company was responsible for an ecological disaster. Nice one Chuck, well, that's the short stuff hat tip to our pals. Alan Beleza, damn interesting and our fron Ken Jennings for to. Writing some good articles on this stuff. And I guess that's it. So short stuff away. Stuff. You should know is production of heart radios. How stuff works for more podcasts. My heart radio is at the I heart radio app, apple podcasts. Wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
S5 Ep2 | The Colonizers
"Is. Also. The. Middle. East. He. Programmatic is. In less data's in. In. The lawsuit This Louis, Johnson, he moved to the audience they area of the Ecuadorian Amazon on the eastern side of the country in the seventies he says when he stepped off the bus in La Guardia the largest city in the area at the time, the streets were literally filled with oil that there was oil running down them. He stepped onto a street of oil. Base Sanyo's this. In Yamashita. Worked as. A. Minority. So Simply movies. Negatives. YELP CPR. Geared. Nameless, Yonder, says growing up he would see big black clouds in the distance newbies Negras it didn't know what those clouds were from, but he found out later that they were from the oil refineries in the area leader huge pits of oil and wastewater in various parts of the Amazon as well. All of that the oil streets, the black clouds, the pits who created those and whose responsibility it is to clean them up. That's what's at the center of a lawsuit that started in Nineteen ninety-three against one company, Texaco. that. Suit has lasted through an acquisition. Chevron. Texaco in two thousand and multiple trials and settlements and appeals. Aspects of this case had been heard in courtrooms in Ecuador York Canada Argentina and The Hague. An American lawyer Steven Don's after you met last time is on house arrest and facing prison time for his role case. IANSA is still working on aspects of the case. Ecuador and in various other courts around the world and various indigenous groups are just trying to figure out how they're going to clean this stuff up and get access to clean water. This is drilled season five. Lucia. Episode to the colonizers today, we're GONNA go all the way back and look at how that oil got onto those treats in the first place. That story coming right up after this quick break from today's sponsor. For a really long time, the options for coloring your hair. If you didn't want to go to a salon and spend a bunch of money was to go to the grocery store or the pharmacy and pick up a box of pretty harsh pretty gross nasty haired guy. But now you can color your hair at home with Madison. Reed. It's professional hair-color delivered to your door starting at just twenty two dollars a month. What makes Madison Reed. Color unique is that it's crafted by master Colorado's who blend light dark cool and warm tones to create over fifty five. Beautiful Multidimensional. It's also cruelty free. It doesn't stink and it just looks subtle and good find your perfect shade at Madison Dash. Reed Dot Com drilled listeners get ten percent off plus free shipping on your first color kit with the code drilled again good Madison Dash read that's art e e D Dot Com, and use the code drilled for ten percent off plus shipping now back to the show. Hello. I'm CAL Thomas. I've just been reading about simone believer believer of the Patriot of Latin America fought for the freedom of not just one country, but for the freedom of six Spanish colonies in Latin America. For centuries in their poor and remote villages, most of the people lived quiet lives close to the. Then in the early. Nineteen twenty. Something happened, which changed forever the life of the Venezuelan people. As you can hear in these vintage oil industry promotional films, oil companies didn't see themselves as colonizers colonialism was something Spaniards did American companies they brought freedom oil colonialism was deeply intertwined with religion and the situation in Latin America was no different. Missionaries throughout the continent were often funded by oilman most intensely from the nineteen twenties through the nineteen sixties and it wasn't purely cynicism like Lyman Stewart and John D. Rockefeller were extremely devout Christians who believed God had ordained them to find oil and prosper for. Darren DOE Chuck a history professor at the University of Notre. Dame has written several fascinating books on this subject. All Oilmen are developed. Russian. Many of them are detrick says there's a long history of missionaries and Oilman ring and it was no different in the Amazon these missionaries or pushing into the jungles of the Amazon. It's no accident that air coming in direct contact with trillium geologists and they are going to collaborate they're going to partner in terms of the flow of information. These partnerships weren't just bringing religion to the supposedly godless primitive people the Amazon and opening up new land for oil exploration. There are also exporting American style democracy throughout the world. Of course, this is all premised on the assumption of superiority of the modern Christian who as embassador, the American way privileges, their knowledge and their expertise and sees. It as again, a God given way for them to help uplift the world, and that has deeply of course, racist undertones as the Cold War began in the late nineteen forties and continued until nineteen ninety, one churches an oilman teamed up again against a common enemy communism. This pursuit of black goal is going to be all wore intensify against the backdrop of the Cold War in the fight with communism in fear that Latin America might lose itself to the Grade Secular Communists, threats of the still union. So Boyle and pursuit of souls is going to become more for a point people begin exploring for oil in Ecuador in the nineteen twenties, but it wasn't until the nineteen sixties. Once. Again, oilmen and missionaries teamed up to explore deep into the jungle in the nineteen eighties. Judith Kim Rolling an environmental lawyer from Alabama was drawn to Ecuador by timeless desire of environmentalists everywhere. She wanted to save the rainforests when she arrived. Kimberly learned about the exact partnership between oil and religion that dough chuck describes one of the groups the by way eighty, they had no contact with the outside world until nineteen seventy by way Eddie are a Subgroup of a larger try of called the Wadhwani who lived throughout the Amazon in Ecuador Bay were subjected to a program of forced contact because after TESCO discover commercial quantities of oil and Lago Agrio, the company knew that it would want to expand its operations into where I need territory law grew was the name of the first well Texaco drilled in Ecuador in the Greek tradition of American companies exploring overseas Texaco named that well and the town of built. Up around at after its own history Lago Agrio means Sour Lake and back when Texaco is just the Texas Oil Company, it first struck black gold in the tiny sundown town of Sour Lake Texas thirty years later, Lago Agrio would be the center of this big legal case we've been talking about but in the nineteen seventies there was still more exploring too. That's where the missionaries came into it in the where I needed lived in those areas had. No contact with the outside world they were fierce warriors and great hunters, and so the company collaborated with us missionaries to subject the where I need to force contact. Kimberly. Wanted to see for herself what was happening in the Ecuadorian Amazon and when she first got to keep does she met in American oil consultant who repeated something she'd read back home i read that there was some oil development in Ecuador, but I had read in this literature that oil. Extraction oil drilling exploration and production does not harm the ray far that the only harm is caused by road construction that oil companies have to build roads. In order to lay their pipelines and bat road construction by the oil industry leads to deforestation, and there's never in there's no other harm. I had read that without thinking about it, and then after I got to keep till, I met a consultant for an oil company who said the same thing to me and somehow when he said it. Didn't sound right. That consulted gave Kim ruling. Of his company's environmental management practices and its plans for further drilling in the Amazon, she took it to a group called company I an organization that represents fifteen hundred communities in the Amazon's Nabarro Management Plan for block sixteen, which is. A really important areas, Yasuni National Park, and also the territory of the Warren? Nation. You know they looked at it and they asked me if they could see it if they could copy it and I said of course, and I think that made an impression on them was it I was the first person who had ever shared information with them. Kuni asked her to come back and then they asked her okay. So you want to help what exactly do you WANNA do. She said, she wanted to go out and see with the oil companies were really doing in the rainforest. So I, with company I they took me out they and they took me to coca, which is a oil boomtown and they introduced me to the local federation and I met with the with the leaders bear and I told them about you know what I had heard about oil extraction and I asked them I said I have some doubts as to true is there contamination? And they looked at each other they looked at me. They had never heard that word before they did not know what it meant and so when I explain what the word contamination meant, they understood immediately and then began to tell me about the oil operations, the routine wase, the bills, and then they took me around to so that I could see or my cell, and so I still remember. The first waste pit that I saw the first abandoned wasted. It was at an exploratory well site and the company had just dug a hole in the ground, dump their toxic waste and abandoned it in the rainforest an when you abandoned toxic waste in the rainforests. Some of it seeps into the ground. You also get a lot of rain. So it overflows into the surrounding areas and I was appalled because when I was a lawyer in New York City I had worked on the love Canal Litigation I had worked for a New York State Attorney General's office, a Suing Occidental, Petroleum Company and Oxygen All Chemical Company to recover the monies that your state had sent to a buyout people's homes and. Contain the contamination at Love Canal and I off that we had learned in this country from love canal that you can't just dig a hole in the ground dumped toxic waste and what the way that is exactly what Texaco was doing a US company was doing in the Amazon rainforest in Ecuador in the. At I went there in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty nine, and they were still doing it this. Practice, digging, unlined, open air waste peds, filling them, and leaving them behind and the dumping of oil into rivers. Who St no talk about in the last episode, these are the original issues at the center of this decades-long case that Chevron ultimately inherited from Texaco and that the `Ecuadorean are still trying to settle today. no-one really denies that this was done. It's more a question of who did what and whose job it is to clean it up. We actually found A. Geologist who worked in Ecuador in the mid nineties? Who told us what he saw there Tim Lago thirty six years the Ministry of. Or lived in about seventy differ countries, I live ten years in Latin America eight and Brazil to Ecuador going there I did see these these oil roads really recruit oil was. It seemed like it was deliberately spill I. I don't know how it happened, but it seemed like also almost waist deep and it was lush. Jungle up there at issue in this case is not whether this happened or even whether Texaco was involved, it's whether they were responsible for more cleanup than they actually did. Texaco's and now chevrons arguments. In this case, boiled onto two things. First Texaco cleaned up with the government said it had to and second any remaining issues where the responsibility of the state run oil company Petroecuador the plaintiff say basically, we don't care who owned what percentage of this partnership it was. Texaco that was operating everything. Texaco showed the Ecuadorians what to do Texaco showed Petroecuador what to do and they're responsible Michael reporter on this series Karen Savage asks logon agro about that. So Texaco, were lies nabbed Chevron. On what they called the settlement agreement that was signed I think it was in ninety eight where they say they cleaned up thirty seven percent of the unlined waste pits because they said, that's the percentage of their share of the consortium. Is that a normal thing where they would only? Yup whatever their share is the rest Petroecuador. I think fits in out landers statement. Because what happens is the major runs everything You know I don't WanNa. Say they're like you know imperialists or whatever. But they definitely go in there with this big boy attitude a lot. These broad shoulders. And they're there to. Do, the operation to operate it. In usually the national oil company. Is just an observer they really don't get their hands on the operation side. Think that's an outlandish. Deception there. Really and truly. Don't believe that for a second one you never wastewater an unlined pit. Never. Everyone knows that toxic water? Putting that into a rainforest. That an outlandishly boldfaced drilling one. Oh, one air very extremely wrong. Extremely dangerous doesn't happen thirty, seven percent I think that's Outlandish. Deception really that. Doesn't work that way. Kimber lean gives the example of the Trans Ecuadorian pipeline, a three hundred and thirteen mile pipeline that runs from the Amazon up over the indies and to the Pacific Ocean. It was initially built by Texaco in Nineteen Seventy two is high flying in the during the time it was operated by Texaco. This pipeline alone had spilled more oil than the Exxon Valdez and this doesn't count the secondary pipelines the flow lines I mean, most of the spills that occur during Texaco's operations weren't even record it, and there's actually a was a directive from Texaco in the US to the office and Kito telling them not to record those spills. Basically, almost they had to booth. Texaco, and Chevron have admitted that Texaco was the operator of the partnership in other words, setting up oilfields, refineries, and pipelines, and running them from the beginning nineteen, sixty four until at least nineteen ninety, they were still in charge when Cameron made her initial save the rainforest trip that experience prompted Kimberlin to write the book, Amazon Crude, which introduced Americans to what was happening in the Ecuadorian Amazon including. Ball Bony Fuss in Ecuadorian who had immigrated to America and was practicing law there when he read about what was happening back home. Bonifaz convinced his son who had just graduated from law school to go on a fact finding mission with him and see if they might build a case his son brought his law school. Powell, a young Stephen. Doniger. The attorney we met last time. I was invited by a former law school classmate of mine and his father his father's from Ecuador was practicing law Massachusetts to go with them on a trip to or to do an investigation of what they describe as a massive pollution problem caused by Texaco. In nineteen ninety-three Bonifaz filed suit against Texaco on behalf of a group of indigenous tribes. Here he is at a press conference about the case in New York. Exactly what? Happened with Texaco didn't have to be that way. He says. He goes onto say more or less exactly what Tim Logo Negro the petroleum engineer we heard from earlier said GonNa grow worked throughout South? America. The US and Africa as an engineer for Baker Hughes in Oil Field Services Company. He said that plenty of oil companies were drilling responsibly at the time that the pollution in Ecuador was really over the top. It was almost like a war on the environment. Texaco, argued that it had cleaned up what it was responsible for the company argued that New York where the suit was filed had no jurisdiction over what had happened in Ecuador for almost a decade. The plaintiffs led by Bony Foss fought to keep the suit in New York. That's at least in part because at the time Ecuador's government was almost entirely in the pocket of the oil companies whose profits were helping the country develop and modernize. In fact the government even filed meka sprees backing Texaco in this case, they asked the judge to dismiss the case saying it would harm Ecuador's oil industry and its relationship with the US in an internal Texaco memo from Nineteen ninety-four Dr Rodrigo. Perez, one of the company's representatives in Ecuador is reporting back on a meeting with the President of Ecuador and various ministers and the executives of various oil companies. This seems to be a fairly regular occurrence. The last monthly meeting of the representatives of the oil companies was organized by city investing and took place on Saturday September third in the town of Bahia where President Ron Allen owns eight beach house reads we flew down in Petro Ecuador's airplane. Keeping my this is nineteen eighty-four. So two years after Texaco has officially left Ecuador, but the company is still pretty cozy with the government there when he gets to a section entitled Ecological Problems Peres writes quote the companies expressed their deep concern with what is happening to Texaco President Doron. Stated that the environmental issue is being brought up by all lending agencies such as the World Bank etc, which are conditioning their loans to sound and firm environmental policies with regard to the Texaco problem. He indicates that they're in the process of being resolved through direct negotiation between the government and Texaco. The minister also said that he had met with the leaders of the indigenous groups who have told him that they are not interested in the lawsuits against Texaco, but rather desire to have direct conversations with the company. President finally said that he received several letters, ecological organizations from all over the world asking him to cancel all contracts with foreign oil and mining companies, which he will obviously never do. Okay. So the oil companies are all meeting with the president during his beach vacation and he in the environment minister telling them don't worry. We'll sort all of these environmental issues out for you but also, hey, were kinda going out on a limb here with these banks and environmental organizations. So don't forget the favor. It's all right there in black and white this is something that comes up. In this case a lot the corruption of the Ecuadorian government for years the plaintiff said, they wouldn't get a fair trial in Ecuador because of it. Then Chevron said they wouldn't get a fair trial but Chevron points to agreements. The government made with Texaco around this time as both valid and binding particularly document in which the Republic of Ecuador signed off on Texaco's cleanup efforts in the country. That agreement was signed in Nineteen, ninety eight in various videos defending themselves in in a written statement to US Chevron is careful with the language they use around this. They always say the cleanup was done according to the government's requirements before leaving. Texaco. Spent forty million dollars and worked with independent environmental experts to clean up its share of sites. The whole process was overseen and verified by the Ecuadorian government Texaco spent forty million dollars cleaning up. It's agreed upon share production sites getting complete released from the Ecuadorian government and local communities. An independent panel of experts found that Texaco's remediation here had followed Ecuadorian government requirements. It was the Ecuadorian government's cozy relationship, the oil industry that made Bonifas and the Ecuadorian plaintiffs fight so hard for so long to keep their case in the US especially given that Texaco was an American company. Here's Don's garage again. Given that the Ecuador's legal system seemed completely incapable of standing up to the powerful Texaco Chevron Corporation. Of you know it didn't exactly engender a whole lot of confidence that a lawsuit order could be successful, which is exactly why Texaco admit Chevron was so desperate. To have the case litigated down in Ecuador it were so desperate that they agreed as a condition of the removal of the case Ecuador accepted jurisdiction of the Ecuadorian Courts as an American company, very, very significant victory for our side. And they also agreed to pay any adverse judgment. That might come out of Ecuador on if they were to lose the case subject to certain conditions by this point, Don's occur was becoming increasingly involved in the case it was unusual for an American company to agree to conditions like these but maybe less. So when you consider how friendly the Ecuadorian government had always been to oil companies, they thought they could engineer dismissal because of their political excellence. What we saw which was you know we saw a court system that for decades had issued even one ruling against Texaco even though the pollution was all over the place I think they theorized that we would either give up at the law firm or lawyers in the US who were financing the case which has quit because it'd be such a hassle to start litigating in a foreign jurisdiction where none of us voyeurs none of us are members of the bar. We would have to get a local legal team, pay them the inconvenience factor rose significantly, and they knew that still the concessions Texaco had made and Chevron. Accepted to gave the plaintiffs enough of a reason to keep going. Got Those two concessions which are huge because oftentimes companies will then you know case will be removed to another country and these big companies like Texaco just won't show up or they'll show up and say, Hey, this has to be dismissed lack jurisdiction in this case that was not going to be an issue for us. So the upshot is we decided to continue the case in Ecuador which. Again when I call yearly phase tunes battle. Next time on drilled. The case kicks off in Ecuador and the surprising election of a wildly popular socialist president changes the math entirely. LAKOTA Mando Federal. Law. Pile. Drilled is an original production of the critical frequency podcast network. It's reported and produced by me Amy Westervelt my reporter on this season is Karen savage. Our editor is Julia Richie. Mixing and mastering by Marc Busch additional reporting from Emily Gertz, additional production help from Sarah Entry. Original score was composed by. B. Beeman. Map Fleming created are beautiful artwork for this season. Our fact Checker is Blue Dagnon. Our First Amendment Attorney is James Wheaton and the first amendment. Project. Maggie Taylor is our marketing director. You can find supplemental stories, documents, photos, and interviews on our website at drilled news dot com. If you're a patriot subscriber. Thank you. Your membership is paying for this podcast right now. Patriots subscribers get access to an ad free podcast feed and working on getting you more perks for your membership including early access to episodes for this season. If you don't want to wait a whole week for the next episode, consider becoming a member at patriotair dot com slash drilled. That's it for this time. Thanks for listening and we'll see a student.
Chevron and The Amazon: A 28-year Legal Battle
"Our colleague sara randazzo is illegal reporter and she's covered a lot of lawsuits against big companies. A lot of times companies get sued over things that they think are bogus or fraudulent or frivolous. And you know. Sometimes they'll fight and they'll oftentimes fight for years but usually litigation ends and sometimes it ends with a trial and a verdict ends with a settlement but usually corporations will find a way to get out of cases because it's just not worth it to their time or their money to keep fighting for one case. She's been covering seems to never end. It's been going on for twenty eight years. It's a battle between the oil giant chevron and indigenous people in ecuador who claimed the company polluted their water and land. This is one case where company did not stop and still has not and really to me. The intrigue of this story is that it's looking at why chevron refused to stop twenty eight years in and has no plans stopping fighting this case until they can ensure that they won't be responsible and won't have to pay anything to the people of ecuador. Welcome to the journal our show about money. Business and power. I'm ryan it's thursday may six coming up on the show. The never ending dispute over one of the largest environmental lawsuits ever this episode is brought to you by cleave yo n e commerce marketing platform that. Lets you delight customers and drive revenue at the same time with personalized email estimates marketing campaigns. That you can design and send in minutes. Learn more at clavier dot com slash spotify. This lawsuit doesn't actually start with chevron. It starts with texaco. An oil company chevron acquired in two thousand and one texaco like many american oil companies drilled royal around the world. The nineteen sixties. They set up shop in ecuador partnering with ecuadorian state. Run oil company petroecuador. Starting in the sixty s they began drilling. They built up a community. They named a lago agrio which means sour lake. And that was named for texaco's birthplace in texas there's a town called sour lake texas that was pivotal in texaco's history and so they kind of took that name and name the section of ecuador lago agrio and then explored and extracted oil for a few decades after that but indigenous ecuadorians and migrant farmers who live in the region known as the ecuadorian amazon. Claimed they'd been damaged by the operation. They filed a lawsuit in nineteen ninety-three in new york. Some later talked to the bbc. A mean before they were killing the where fish were animals. We had flute tweet. You got banana. We're happy living that way. We thought we would live that way forever. The rival sticks ago was very bad when you extract oil. There's a lot of waste and rocks and different things that come out that you have to put somewhere. And so in a lot of places including the us you have to line the pits in the earth and then you put the waste in there and so then that prevents it from kind of leaching into the earth if that makes sense but in ecuador they say that they had wastewater and oil extraction waste. Going unlined pits that they said. Then you know seeped into the earth and the water supply. I am ill. I feel like they are allowed him. The mice we are poor and insignificant to them joseph. They decided to pursue litigation against texaco saying. Hey you did all this oil exploration and you polluted our environment. Our drinking water is polluted. Air is polluted. Our food is polluted and so they decided to sue nineteen ninety-three ninety three new york well. The suit was playing out in a new york court. Texaco had already left. Ecuador and transferred its oil operations to its partner. Petroecuador texaco also made a deal with ecuadorian government. The company agreed to spend forty million dollars to clean up. The area and the government gave texaco ability. Release saying the company wasn't responsible for any damages related to its time there from their standpoint. They came to an agreement and they paid forty million dollars and they did a bunch of work to clean up. Various sites and veasley texaco is the minority partner in this and so they say that they cleaned up. The percentage of sites that was their percentage of the partnership. I believe it was something around thirty seven percent. They clean up the percent responsible for but that means the definitely other sites that the texts go did not clean up but they say that they spent this forty million dollars. Did all this clean up. And then a few years later. They had an agreement with the government where ecuador said okay. You fulfilled your terms of the clean up. We're giving away very. You're not liable for your work here beyond your way then. Judge throughout the case in new york instead of plaintiff's wanted to move forward head to file a new case in ecuador and so in two thousand and three the plaintiffs did just that one of the lawyers. The plaintiffs were working with is an american named stephen danziger. Stephen had been involved since the beginning when he learned about the situation from a classmate at harvard law school he was fluent in spanish. Had a foreign correspondent before going to law school and so he starts to get involved in looking at this and so he was involved from the very beginning when they filed the lawsuit and really became the face of the case with a lawsuit. Now playing out in ecuador. Stephen tried to keep attention high. He did a lot of press. Even had a documentary crew. Follow him around through the years. We've gotten fairmount press but we've never broke through the conscious of the american people in a significant way here. He is in. That documentary called crude. It came out in two thousand and nine in. It painted a blistering portrait of the company's environmental record in ecuador. This is about fighting hundreds of years of history. You know in latin america and it's about fighting one of the most powerful companies in the world with people who have literally no resources and are some of the most marginalized people on earth. So you know. It's a completely unequal battle. So it was all part of the strategy the some getting the public sentiment and you know getting a documentary out there showing what was happening on the ground and you know why chevron was responsible was a bit part toward swaying public opinion in two thousand and eleven stephen in the plaintiff scored a major win a judge in ecuador issued a massive verdict against the oil giant a judge in ecuador order chevron to pay nine and a half billion dollars the case involves the dumping of toxic wastewater by texaco chevron bought in two thousand one. It is the largest damage award from any environmental law. Suit the judge says that will cover cleanup costs and restitution from oil drilling contamination. That happened near the headwaters of the amazon river. The san ramon be the final judge on the case. Judge bronco issued a nine point five billion dollar verdict against chevron and he even said chevron doesn't apologize in a matter of. I think it was a few weeks. It'll be doubled so then. The verdict was doubled for a period of time and so the verdict found chevron was responsible and they had to pay this huge amount nine point five billion dollars that is a massive judgment. It's widely considered the one of the largest the largest environmental judgments of its kind and has chevron paid any of that money. No not a penny coming up. Stephen finds himself in his own legal. Quagmire this episode is brought to you by clavijo. If you're working around the clock to build your dream e commerce business you need an e commerce marketing platform that works just as hard as you do. That's cleo with flavio you'll delight customers and drive revenue at the same time with personalized email and sms marketing campaigns. That you can design and send in minutes. Learn more at cleveland dot com slash spotify. That's k. l. a. v. i. Yo dot com slash spotify. A chevron has always insisted the nine point five billion dollar. Judgement was unfair. The company points to the liability waiver from ecuador's government and to the actions of the plaintiffs lawyer steven doniger so the company has thrown counter-punches against both. It's gone after ecuador and has also gone after stephen. I stephen two weeks before the ecuadorian judge issued a nine point five billion dollar ruling chevron sued stephen in a new york cord essentially alleging that much as a case was totally fraudulent. Part of chevron's argument came from unaired footage from the documentary that had been cut out through a series of crazy twists and turns chevron was able to get a us court to order. Joe berlinger the documentary filmmaker to turn over five hundred hours of outtakes that didn't make it into the final film so they were able to see kind of everything that was filmed over these many weeks or months where berlinger was following them around. All the film made stephen look like a lawyer. Fighting for the truth and justice. The outtakes painted a different picture. A picture of a lawyer breaking all kinds of rules like when he suggested people should make up the facts. The facts that we don't always exist another point about half the right tax and if they don't exist obviously you gotta go forget lake otherwise or when he said the court should be politically controlled. We have concluded that we need to do more politically to control the court to pressure the court. We believe they make decisions based on who they fear the most based on what the loss should dictate or he talked about following a looser set of ethical rules in ecuador out of bounds both in terms of judicial behavior. And what what lawyers would do but ecuador you know. There's almost nobles here and this is how the game is played chevron dug up even more dirt on stephen alleging he had helped us supposedly independent witness right there report that he tampered with evidence and pressure judges to rule in their favor in two thousand fourteen. The us judge overseeing the case. Judge lewis kaplan ruled and chevrons favour and said that stephen had acted unethically. Judge kaplan found in a nearly five hundred page opinion. That danziger and his team did things like submitting false evidence paying off a court appointed expert and go straight much of his opinion promising. Five hundred thousand dollars to a judge to rule in their favor and he even found that they go through the ultimate opinion with the nine point. Five billion dollar judgement. They found evidence on computers of files from the plaintiffs. That weren't in the public record anywhere that ended up for begum in the final judgment. Yesterday we spoke with stephen. He told me he denies the accusations and disagrees with the ruling so over the course of your time in ecuador you have been accused of behaving improperly. How would you describe your tactics in ecuador. Completely appropriate meaning consistent with the ethics of the legal profession and everything we did was consistent with ecuadorian law and procedure. Now my short response to the accusation. That i behaved inappropriately which is made by chevron and made by this. Us federal judge. Is that i respectfully disagree. And i reject that but some of the things that judge kaplan ruled that you had done in ecuador light promising five hundred thousand dollars to a judge to rule in your favor ghost writing some of the judge's opinion doing some of the ghost writing for an outside independent witness. I mean the these things sound. They don't sound like a normal legal process in a normal thing to do for lawyer. I'm glad you brought up that question because my response to that is it didn't happen and you're right. If that did happen would be entirely inappropriate. You know what i'm trying to tell you. Is that those findings by judge kaplan or eroneous. They're wrong they're flawed. They're untrue as the documentary. Outtakes stevens says some of it was taken out of context but he does regret. Parts of that documentary. Film was shot. Two thousand seven and there were things. I said that frank. I wish i hadn't said i was frustrated. With chevrons corruption. What we believe was the corruption of ecuador's storage slowdown. The trout processor. My indigenous clients were dying of cancer and other oil related. Disease was infuriated stevens. Persistence has also gotten him into trouble. One of the things. Judge kaplan ordered. His two thousand fourteen ruling was that stephen had to give up his financial stake in the lawsuit. The judge said that he couldn't profit from the judgment in any way and that's been kind of open to some interpretation and further legal fighting and soon don's had a six point three percents His contingency fee was six point three percent of whatever they collected. So you know if chef actually pay nine point five billion he would get six point three percent of that which would be a lot of money. I can't do math in my head. Chevron accused stephen of trying to profit from the lawsuit anyway by going out and raising money to keep the case going. So the court ordered stephen turnover all of his electronic devices as evidence. When stephen refused the court eventually ordered a trial to determine if he should be held in criminal contempt of court. The new judge. That's overseeing the criminal contempt of court case determined. That stephen was a flight risk and so she put him under house arrest and because of covid what could have been just a couple of months at her house. Arrest has continually to multiple multiple delays. And it's now been almost two years that he's been under house arrest in upper west side of manhattan but over time. Stephen developed a lot of supporters. Don's is still largely hilton in some circles as a hero and a martyr and someone who's fought so long for this cause and is being beat up by this big bat oil company and he continues to get a tremendous support. Even some celebrities have joined his cause like pink. Floyd frontman roger waters and the actor alec baldwin. Who spoke out at a chevron shareholder meeting last year has more than nine point five billion dollars in liability ignores human suffering and uses shareholder money to personally attack the ecuadorian attorney steven singer. He has a group of nobel laureates who've weighed in his favor. He recently got several congress people to weigh in for him there was even a rally in december outside. Its upper west side apartment above a giant banner that says. Sos free stephen. He hung out his window and greeted supporters of the bullhorn. Here chevron scored a major victory against stephen it was still fighting its case against ecuador because even though a judge in new york ruled that the nine point five billion dollar order was a fraud. That didn't mean it just got invalidated in your as you can imagine. It's a little hard for government to just wipe out a judgment imagined in the us. If the president was told you need to get rid of this court judgment obviously here that that would be very difficult to do and so ecuador has said. Hey we can't just wipe out a court judgment. And so they've kind of been hemming in hiring and not in chevrons view abiding by this judgment chevron so far has avoided paying any of the money because it doesn't have any operations ecuador so the plaintiffs have been going to other countries around the world. Where chevron does have operations hoping the courts in those countries will help them collect because chevron has refused to pay and because they no longer have operations in ecuador. There's no real way for the ecuadorians to collect that money. If they had say a big tank somewhere they could you know sees that and say unless you pay nine point five billion. We're gonna take this oil tanker but because they have nothing there. The plaintiffs have had to go to countries around the world where they do have assets and try to say. Hey here's the ecuadorean judgement country x. They've done this in canada and argentina. Brazil they've said he. Will you try to enforce it and do that by seizing assets or making chevron pay in this country and so far those of all not succeeded as well in two thousand eighteen chevron scored another victory when an international arbitration tribunal based in the hague ruled in its favor it said that ecuador should invalidate the judgment but ecuador hasn't done that so the company started looking for other ways to put pressure on the ecuadorian government chevron has turned to the us trade system to try stifle ecuador so there's a system that the us trade representative in washington has various countries that are allowed duty free status because they're developing countries. They're not as rich as we are. And so it's a way to come to boost. The economy is in other countries. And so chevron has fought for years to have ecuador's status under this revoked last year chevron even went after the tax free status of ecuadorian roses. The country was trying to export to the united states. Chevron says ecuador isn't holding up its end of international bargains and international arbitration agreements. And so we don't think they should be allowed to have these roses come in duty-free so you know even though roses have nothing to do with oil pollution. They've kind of done that as well. Chevron officials say they've punched back so hard for so long because for them it's become about more than just the money this as about fairness ecuador's said they were cleared of liability in the nineteen ninety s and a judge found fraud in the litigation. Why won't chevron. Just give it up for them. It's a matter of principle. I spent months looking into this and speaking with people on all sides of it and they said it's not about money. Either former general counsel told me this was not something where they said. It'll cost too much to pay for this lawsuit to pay the people of ecuador. We don't wanna do that. It was a principal thing. They said we're not responsible for this. Bad things have happened in the course of this case that had been fraudulent and therefore even more so. We don't think we're responsible. They just say we should not have to pay for this case. And so therefore we're going to keep fighting regardless of who's responsible. What's definitely clear is that no one's really talking any more about the people of amazon and what they're living situation is whether there's something that could be done to improve it so i asked stephen what he thought about that. Do you think that your continued involvement in the case is detrimental to the people who are in ecuador. That's a really interesting question that i've thought about a long. I don't know. I don't know Look i've always said if i didn't exist around would have to invent me because i'm the foil like they don't want people thinking about the pollution. They caused an ecuador. They want people thinking about the lawyer so away. They've put me in a situation by attacking me for ten years. Where i have to defend myself and i also have a huge amount of skill institutional knowledge that i think benefits my clients and they want me to continue with their lawyer in the fact that chevron has figured out a way to deprive them of their choice of a lawyer i think is very telling about my effective strength chevron also says that it's just defending itself. The company told sarah in a written statement quote. The perpetrators of the fraud refused to acknowledge the court in arbitration findings and instead continued to spew falsehoods in threats against chevron leaving no choice but to defend ourselves. Well reporting this. Everyone i talked to was all about chevron versus danziger chevron versus doniger and you know really the conversation these days is not about the people amazon and it seems from what i understand that there definitely a some pollution down there. Stevens criminal contempt of court. Trial starts on monday. That's all for today. Thursday may sixth the journal is a co production of gimblett and the wall street journal. If you like the show. Follow us on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts route. Every weekday afternoon thanks for listening. See tomorrow join us for the wall street journal. Future of everything festival online may eleven through thirteen here from the most revolutionary minds in business technology culture and more to explore the ideas forming what comes next speakers. Include rachel ray gabrielle. Union dwayne wade bill. Ackman ray dallaglio barry jenkins and many more redeem your complimentary ticket at wsj dot com slash podcast rsvp.
Ep. 462 - Trent365! - Do Your Homework or Eat Your Dog Food
"Today in episode four hundred sixty two treasury sixty five if you ain't gonna do the homework, then you'd better food. And greetings from Tokyo. I have arrived being here an hour or two getting onto eleven o'clock signed now time for bed just about. But before I do a number of conversations I've had over the last few months of being with people who have been looking to create new businesses in areas and industries in which I've basically experience, and there is this term of eating your own dog food, right? You've probably heard it in Texaco's and startup circles, the idea that you should be a consumer of your own service or your product, you should eat your own don't fool, basically. And I think there's a lot of argument in favor of that theory. Which is you know, if you've got Demane experience, then you can create the right product or service for that industry. But I think it's also possible to to come from completely lift feel completely outside of that industry and still create something good. But you've got to be prepared to do the homework, and what that means is doing a hell of a load of data Reese. Search Helo load of interviewing talking to customers understanding all of the pieces in the cycle. There's a number of businesses in volved in each and every other business, you know, the cross pollination the the distribution side of it the marketing side of the customer side, the the supply side these multiple sides to own new businesses or any business. And so I think way of people going wrong is they're not willing to do the homework. And instead they get caught up in like, I spoke about Becky in episode seventy the show, they get caught up in this validation problem where they get a little validation jazzed enough to keep going, but not enough to really strongly the prove or disprove that. They're on the right track. And it concerns me a little bit because in this world of entrepreneurship way. Everybody can start a new business. A lot of people are deciding that I'm gonna throw away my ten years experiencing this field. And instead I'm going to go and do something completely different. Doesn't matter. Okay. But if you're not going to dog food than you have to do the homework done ever, forget you've got to have one or the other. Ideally, you should do both or that's it. Thanks for tuning. We'll be back again tomorrow. Behind.
Donkey Of The Day: Idiot Tries To Disprove Gorilla Glue Girl, Ends Up In Louisiana ER
"My name is rita k. I am ellen bernstein brodsky. Chris is your grandmother. What's the matter with the well and is a podcast about the relationship between grandmothers and grandchildren as my mother would have said taka. Who would've wanted a jewish grab sometime. She accidentally livestreams. Who's going to tell her up. Just hearing about this. Listen to call your grandmother on all your heart. Radio app apple podcasts. While wherever you get your debts pitcher. And i've been called a lot of my twenty three years with donkey of the day is a new. Yes you today. For friday. february twelfth goes to a louisiana man named lynn martin linens. Thirty seven years old. I have no idea what he does with his life. And i am quite intrigued to find out because whatever it is he does. He needs to do more okay. He's clearly got too much time on his hands now. We all know to legend of texaco brown by now right. That's the cabrera was the forty year old woman who ran out of her usual hairspray and decided to use gorilla glue spray adhesive which caused their hair to become stuck in place up and it stuck my ass okay. I hear you cardi. But brown proves up. Isn't the only place things can get stuck because she was trying to lay her hair down. Listen tessa my hair has been like for about a month. Now is not no is not a choice. Y'all look my hair. It don't move you telling you don't move. It burns out some people out there saying she did this for coke. Never i put it on social media to get help now. Texaco was able to get the guerrillas. Seeming removed after procedure was done by beverly hills based plastic surgeon. Dr michael obeying okay dropping off task. I'm glad you got that after here. Okay now you would think that tests ika would be an example to us all. I don't know how you all operate but operate from the smart people and learn from their own mistakes. Wise people learn from the mistakes of others model tests could did that so hopefully you don't have to go through that. But yesterday i was reminded yet again as to why i've been here on the breakfast club for ten years monday. Through friday in every day at eight o four am clockwork. I never have a shortage of people to give the credit. They deserve for being stupid. Because lynn martin thirty seven years old decided that he had to see what that guerrilla was hitting for himself. Why did he want to rub this gorilla baby bad on his lips well because lynn clearly refuses to believe all women. Whatever story tesco was selling wasn't buying let's go to wkbd ucbsa twenty seven hundred. Four police right now. Subaru of put didn't get it all room. But i was actually let me hear lending again. I can't really understand. i don't speak fluid. What he's alienating. Who radio subaru of cut. Put him out. Didn't get it all room. Okay let me translate so lend decided to take this guerilla. Banana nut milk and apply it to a red solo cup. First of all the levels of nicotine in this story to red solo cup the red solo cup is like the super bowl trophy. Kickbacks i can only imagine that the way holding an oscar fields for actors after winning is how. I feel when i got that red solo cup in my hand with a few cubes ice going on yahoo in a right. The red solo cup does not get the respect. It deserves for joy it has bought so many of us. Young and old black or white male of female. It don't matter dropping bombs in a red solo cup. If it's one thing all of us have in. Common in divided states of america is that whatever function we haven't from bar mitzvahs. The barbecues. ginger was too. I finally got this guerilla oyster droppings out. My hair that dan red solo cup is dead. Now that red solo cup had a front row seat to a great moment just like red solo cups have had a front row seat to a lot of great moments analog dumb ones. This is a dumb one. Because lynn put the gorilla pearl jam on the red solo cup and attached it to his lip because whatever his ears and under his dreads and in in Under dirty snapback. It told him he could just lick it off all right three hours. Later lynch showed up to the hospital with a red solo cup stuck on his upper lip. I hated here now. Let's go to w. cab. Cbs twenty seven hundred report or of there for maybe about a little over our to our go so basically i had my pressuring i mean i have gone through a lot of breath also and They appealing Basically i'm washington palin. You know to get it off for my upper skin on my lip. All been torn. Okay let me translate once again. Somebody speaking right. He took the gorilla glue putting on a red solo cup and attached to his lip. Okay because he wanted to prove that you could just lik the gorilla glue off his lip. Let me tell you some. Jealousy and envy are really root of all evil especially on social media. this dude. lynn was just straight up. Envious of the attention texaco was receiving people. Be so jealous and upset of the attention folks receive. It doesn't matter if a person person's going viral for all the wrong reasons folks will still get upset them. This young lady has started a gofundme. Got thirteen thousand dollars in lynch said. Oh hell no hold my beer in his red solo cup. I'm going in. There was absolutely positively zero reason for lent to involve himself in this situation but would also scares me about this. Is that a thirty seven year. Old man doesn't know the difference between real and fake when it comes to internet. This is a prime example of it land. And i'm sure plenty of thought texaco was doing this for cloud. She just wanted attention. Okay like all these other digital de heads so even know something was actually real. You didn't believe it but if something is fake. y'all do believe it. Virtual reality has ruined folks natural disarming. And now you've got lynne. Who probably won't be able to use his lips the same way he used to ever again he might even lose some of his upper lip and i must say if that happens he earned it. See when you don't appreciate what you have. God the universe will take it from you and do you know linda. The same brother who was going to stores looking ice cream doing that. Ice cream challenge. Listen we saw that. You're on doctor. Hawes in regards to the ice cream challenge and then i'm looking on your facebook page. We do see this your rapper and many insinuate at you're doing these challenges to seek attention to boost iraq career or just to go viral. So what are your thoughts on. That were never want to stick. No guerilla glue to my lip and have it stuck there and have the of situations Base tries to accord by no social media. Run stay right now. Everybody's on social media gets a lot of attention and that's going on. I mean we do a lot of different challenges. So i wouldn't say that i'm doing it to boost my career because people start a new challenge every day. I didn't think it was going to go this for moylan cardenas said said they do anything for claudine never lie now he's putting guerrilla prig liquid on his lips to prove a point. Me tell something then you only respect your mouth your respect your tongue your lips. You wanna disrespect that part of your face. Well let me take some of it away from you. That's what the university saying iran. So so maybe you'll appreciate it more wants this gone and this land is valentine's day lane. If you got a girlfriend of baby mama a wife. I'm here to tell you that. She deserves better and by better. I mean a man would functioning lips. Man who didn't have a red solo cup stuck to his mouth this week right because he wanted to taste guerrillas long jelly. How you gonna go down on your woman's vagina lips when you don't have any lipsey your on how you even going to give you. Woman sweet kisses on the lips on her face. Why did you believe me. I need to know. You can't describe the when you're going downstairs married. I'm sorry. I'm a good storyteller. Okay let me try to say that over then you know. A young woman deserves better and by better. I mean a man with functioning lips man who didn't have a red solo cup stuck to his mouth because he wanted to taste. Carrillo slung jelly. Yes how you gonna perform. Oral sex woman vega on your women's lips down there when you don't have any lifts up there. Are you going to even give you sweet kisses on the lips on her face when you even have any look on your face. Dago listen to more than story saying you niggers dumbest understatement. All right this is really the world we live in. And what's sad. These are the people you all be catering to on social media when you get online and you wait for folks to tell you how to feel about things. These are the people you are listening to. Okay and guess what all of y'all gonna get what you deserve every single one of you and right now with lynn martin deserves is for rimma to give him the biggest. He ha- he. You stupid dumb which you thinking about nothing. What are you to tell you. Who's said i'm talking to you. Trigger goes wrong about some guy's lips looking at me something. Wrong draw newsroom. Nothing wrong with how you feel. Feel fun you that were you. What's the climate in you. What's your throne kinky man newly right donkey today is brought to you by the law office of michael s lomonosov. Don't be downtown to fifty on your cell and say a bull if you've been hurt in a construction accident that's pound two five ot from your and say the bowl don't miss the number one fiction podcast in the country. Tomorrow's monsters storing golden globe nominee. John boyega and any winter darren criss in the sci-fi thriller podcast a shadowy corporation six to enhance human evolution by eliminating the need for sleep while the repercussions when we give corporations direct access to our brains our point we no longer just consumers. At what point do we become their product. Listen to tomorrow's monsters on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.
418 - The Cool Zone feat. Steven Donziger (5/11/20)
"The audacity could be a good name. If you were a professional gamer. That is good. That's actually not bad. Good Guy Really Flag Valerie tonight but lakewood style. The I needs to be like a one. Yeah needs to be online and then like sort of like the letter should be a little bit like an oddly like upper and lower case combination. How about this? So audacity is like a play on audio game reward would be like odd. Od Audacity so. That's one type of Gamer name. Like it would probably be saying that's closed audacity but modified in such a way that makes it not a word like it would be like audacity eighth. They never actually know what words are. No Yeah gamers are like Yo. You won't believe this. I got the I got the full word for my name. I got a ride with the fuck is that it's not anything. We're the we're the post verbal world. They don't really at how things are spell. I I got a cop game with somebody named Brian. Onyx and rapidly Arctic Arctic's. Yeah he was really shitty. You sucked Brown exhaustive. Sounds like one of those endless companies. We saw driving from Boston to New Hampshire Creepy Cup like that's clearly company weapon man. Yeah they're they're companies that coupon family child sacrifice or weapons scheme. Yes they're all companies that would be like a medical or psychological firms in early. David Cronenberg films. Yeah or like whether it's campus where you have to go for treatment. Yeah exactly something a place that like Damian would work in before three greetings friends. It's your Chapeau for the week in a little. Bit Me Matt and Felix will be Usual spoofs goofs but before then in the first half of the show I have an interview with you. Sorry I have an interview for you with a human rights attorney who has been under house arrest with an ankle monitor in his apartment on the upper west side since August for the crime of winning a lawsuit against Chevron for poisoning. I Dunno half of the Amazon Ecuador. it's an astonishing case. It's like I. I read this article in the intercept this week and It was it was jaw-dropping vision of the future of what I fear. We're all headed. Which is a totally privatized legal system in which corporations we old pretty much absolute authority over everyone and everything so on that note. Here is my interview with Stephen. Don's eager okay listeners. On if you're like me you're now in about month to of quarantine probably mostly in your apartment or House Climbing up the walls. Losing your mind but For this week I have an interview and a guess for you. Who has been? Shall we say under quarantine for considerably longer than that since of last year? I'm speaking with human rights attorney Steven Doniger who has been under house arrest since August because of his involvement in a massive multi billion dollar lawsuit against Chevron so Steven. You're under house arrest now. You've you've you've been you've basically lap the rest of the country on this quarantine thing. How's that been going for you? Well you not only. Anybody likes to be quarantined. But when you're corn team with an ankle bracelet and monitored electronically by you know by the government for what I think are completely unjustified. Able reasons I it's you know it's not easy. It's tough but You know have a good solid family. And a young son wife reduce battle on and keep working and You know hopefully. We'll get out the other side of this Stephen. I became aware of your case because of an article that was in the intercept last week. by Sharon Lerner and it lays out the details of rather extraordinary and terrifying situation. You find yourself in We're essentially you are being. They brought Rico against you because you are too successful in suing the company Chevron for essentially poisoning a large swath of the nation of Ecuador. Yeah I mean the the basics are you know. Kind of simple and terrifying. I agree with you. I work with a team of lawyers for a number of years both in the United States and Ecuador to win an epoch environmental judgment on behalf of indigenous peoples and local communities in the Amazon rainforest in the northern part of the Amazon of Ecuador or Texaco. Now Chevron Chevron Texaco but it was Texaco in the sixty seventies eighties early nineties. Dump billions of gallons of toxic wastes onto indigenous. Incestual lands left behind about a thousand open air. Toxic waste pits. They've gouge out of the jungle floor into which they dump and Zine Laden cancer causing oil waste that they ran through pipes into streams and rivers that the local indigenous groups relied on for their drinking water their bathing fishing in their sustenance and really in a few short years they destroyed you know of years of prosperous living the local news in the Amazon causing cancers and all sorts of medical problems economic problems and really destruction of cultures and displacement from land. And that sort of thing. I I went down there in. Nineteen ninety-three Os just out of law school with a team lawyer who saw like absolutely apocalyptic seemed oil spread out over the roads. And you know like like pools of oil and forests on. It was very clear that Texaco. Who had designed the system of oil extraction to pollute? This was no accident. They they planned it this way to save and they left behind what really was an environmental holocaust. I mean the whole environment was poisoned in a fifteen hundred square mile area and they went decades without any accountability than ever paid for damages. You know they were doing it openly and notoriously and we decided to file a lawsuit back here in New York against Texaco is that this is where. Texaco's headquarters were time. They made the decision in New York to Putin. Ecuador in any event Over the next twenty years or so. They tried to obstruct the case every which way they could. We ended up winning the case down in Ecuador's courts where they had accepted jurisdiction on the evidence against them was overwhelming sixty four thousand chemical sampling results pointing to their pollution over literally dozens and dozens of sites and They when they lost the case they refused to pay. They threatened the indigenous groups with a lifetime of litigation. If they persisted and they went after me and other lawyers but primarily me live here in New York of into Ecuador over two hundred fifty times work on this case of handle a lot of other cases to last several years. This is my primary work very complex case and they want before a federal judge in New York who has pro business reputation and who really took it upon himself to try to work with chevrons lawyers to destroy my life into silence me and blow up the case of Chevron could escape from having to pay liability to the people of Ecuador over occur. This has been going on other retaliation part for ten years and it's resulted in my home detention for the last ten months. Which think is a gross violation of my constitutional rights. My human rights arbitrary on designed again to crush me The kind of the pretext for the detention is that I refused in order to turnover my computer and cell phone Chevron part of of kind of a discovery action the order. That kind of order is unprecedented in itself. A major violation of my constitutional rights. More Portland those of my clients to confidential communications and what we've seen is just a series of decision after decision in favor of Chevron by judge who seems like he's taken it on as his life's mission even crusade to to undermine the ability of the Ecuadorian people to recover money from Chevron for damage that Chevron readily admits that it causes. So I'M GONNA tough situation my family's in a tough situation. I feel like Us courts In this case of done some very frightening things at shocking to me that that Chevron and Judge Kaplan Lewis Kaplan are able to carry out a these types of decisions you know and get away with it. Apparently we continue to fight. We're hopeful and more importantly you know Chevron still faces enormous risk financial risk from the judgment which can be enforced in any country against their assets. And there's a lot of other lawyers working on this case not just me Who are focused on that right now but they just seemed really want to destroy me To send a signal. I think to environmental activists all over the country in the world that you can't fight new and win and get away with and that's really what I think is happening. I mean that's the that's critical piece of this year or one of many is that you know you won your case. And when they started Texaco now. Chevron wanted the case to tried in Ecuador because of their legal system. Kirk wrong. It's they have like like I said non it would be a non-jury trial and they. They felt like so. It's just like this chain of events where there were rather than doing even the barest due diligence to. I don't know not dump toxic waste into the Amazon rainforest. They did that to save money and then they chose a trial. Ecuador because they thought it would be more amenable to their company. Like the decision was they were. Ju- yeah they were found guilty of that in Was it was like a nine? And a half billion dollars Was what they were the Senate and then the now. Everything's subsequent to that has been an effort to avoid paying even a dime. I mean it's it's it's just bad faith all around. I mean the Ecuadorians with great courage. filed lawsuit here in the United States. They wanted to be treated fairly by the court. System Chevron had other plans they every step of the way they've tried to delay the process pay lawyers to obstruct the process. It calculated cheaper to pay. They literally used sixty law firms in two thousand lawyers against us and against me and they had calculated is cheaper to pay for a legal army to fight it and to actually pay for cleanup. And I also think they're terrified with the concept that might actually be held accountable to indigenous groups who directly have been unable to get the resources they need to hire lawyers to protect their rights. Vis-a-vis big fossil-fuel industry polluters. Now I WANNA get into some of the more Just like really shocking and surprising things that like you know when I when I read this story where jaw-dropping about the way you mentioned judge. Lewis Kaplan has handled this case and some of the things that have happened to you as a result of it but just going back to the beginning of like you know the the genesis of this all is the you know the poisoning a huge swath of The Amazon and the people who live there and the this scale of this. What Chevron did there is like. I've seen it compared to like Chernobyl. You would have to grab something of that to talk about like just how much land has been poisoned and like the scale of devastation caused by. I mean like not just willful and competence. But like you know like a criminal act like premeditated decision to carry out like you said this kind of ecological. Holocaust and another key point. I mean it's it was not an accident. I mean to look at what they did in Ecuador. The you know the deliberate dumping at the height of the operation of four million gallons a day toxic wastewater into the streams and rivers were indigenous people lip and that went on day after day for years and they never worn the people. They never put up fences around waste pits. They never hire doctors. They never did environmental assessments. I mean they just literally in a dump toxic waste with impunity. It's called the Amazon Chernobyl. Probably the world's worst oil related disaster. It's been out there for close to fifty years the judgment of nine point. Five billion is actually relatively modest compared to the magnitude of the damage and by comparison. Vp that the deepwater horizon spill the Gulf of Mexico. Two Thousand Ten. They paid about fifty billion dollars in compensation and fines for something. That fundamentally was an accident. Fundamentally an accident but also crucially. The deepwater horizon was in the Gulf coast and like spilled all that oil onto the shores of the continental United States and not a poor country whereas you mentioned most of the people Poisoned by this worthy like indigenous nations of that country. Who are you know? Even within that country already. Pretty oppressed in disadvantaged let alone against a multinational fossil fuel company like Chevron. It's entirely right. And you know really really gets down to his level of total disrespect by Chevron or community. I mean I it's just shocking to me that they would design this kind of system thinking make a get away with it And I went down there. They started polluting running all the waste off into the rivers and streams. Some of the indigenous people would say. What is this? What are you doing we thought you were Texaco? Texaco Eric Company. You can't do this. And they would tell the indigenous people. I don't worry about it. The oil medicinal. It's got Biden News. You can drink like milk. I mean there was just a a local communities and it continues to this day. I mean that was back in the sixties seventies eighties and when they went to court filing WanNa judgment and after the company tried to obstruct them for years and years of delay. Trial the end of the childlike. Oh we're not going to pay you You know we agreed to jurisdiction Ecuador's courts but we're not going to respect the judge when pay you come chase around the world you know and then was this and this was like a civil action right. It was a civil case. Yeah like a regularly boy. You're talking about the scale and design of this is is is mass murderer basically. Well look I leave that. It was clearly foreseeable for by Texaco when they designed the system that thousands of people would die from. You can't sit there knowing what the world knows about what's in oil. You know which is heavily carcinogenic chemicals and dump millions of gallons of it on a systematic deliberate basis every day for year after year after year. Not expect that mass number people will get cancer and die. That's exactly what's happened. You know I think it is a mass industrial homicide In Ecuador's courts held to their credit. You know look at. The facts looked at the law and helped. Chevron Accountable Chevron has consistently not obeyed the law not comply with the law run away an attack lawyers to distract attention from what I believe is criminal misconduct. And you know you're working on this case for for years and years and I guess I'm just curious as to what chevrons lawyers argued in their defense. What was their defense against what they were accused of in court. Well they have various kinds of technical defenses. I mean the last thing they wanted to do is engage is on the merits of our claims which is did they brag or not. I mean they admit they pollute so they've various elaborate technical defenses like are we polluted but we laughed so is no longer our responsibility. It's the government's responsibility. Or you know we polluted but you have approved. It's harmed anybody in other words. They have this elaborate theory that you can dump toxic waste all over the place but you know it doesn't hurt a person. I can just hurt the environment or hurts animals. Then there's nothing to really worry about Then they have technical offenses they say. Oh your judgments against Chevron but you know we only operate through our subsidiary so you can't really collect because Chevron doesn't have any money all our money and assets are in are wholly owned subsidiaries around the world hundred Navia or so So you don't have a judgment. You'd never sued the subsidiary so they use these technical combination of technical defenses and kind of BS to try to muck up the issues. Look their goal is not to. They know they're not GonNa win the narrative so obvious what they did. Their goal is simply like the tobacco industry did and still does is to create enough doubt and uncertainty. That people get confused. They don't know who's right or who's wrong you know as long there's like two narratives when they're really you one simple narrative right Aurora. As long as there's two they can confuse the issues. They win because they have the power and they're in the you know by default. They haven't paid a penny so it's important to people cut through the BS their BS and sort of see the basic facts. I mean part of their tax me is to confuse the issues. They WANNA say. Oh you know the issue in that. Ecuador cases that lawyer that greedy lawyer from New York. I mean he committed fraud. I mean they paid a witness two million bucks to come into court up here and testify falsely that I was in a meeting. Why approved a bribe of trial judge in Ecuador which is completely false bs. Do such a thing an ethical person. I've never had a single complaint from a client in twenty years of law practice so as to that charge of bribery though. Didn't the person that like they who testified that you would try to bribe. This judge been hasn't been shown that they accepted two million dollars from Chevron his name is Albert Uganda and Chevron gave him all sorts of benefits. I believe they still pay him today. Years later hush money you know how is how is his testimony still considered legitimate? If if if it's been proven that like the I guess. The plaintiff in this case has has paid him two million dollars. Well we don't consider it legitimate. We never considered legitimate from the moment. He walked into the courtroom. I mean it was very obvious he was lying. He was corrupt A judge Kaplan credited his testimony over mind again an ethical person who you know I understand my duties as a ethical person is a lawyer so anyway he credited this corrupt guy over my testimony. There was no corroborating. Evidence was just as testimony. He later admitted a year later in a separate legal proceeding under oath that he had lied repeatedly before judge capital which capital never changed his decision based on that later testimony and judge capital was affirmed by the Second Circuit Order Repeals which refused to look at the facts and look at his recantation of his testimony when they affirmed in the meantime twenty nine different appellate judges in Ecuador. Canada have validated the judgment. You know rejected by implication judge. Kaplan's decisions as Kaplan is. The only judge on earth is ruled. It was a fraud every other judge. This looked at the facts is ruled otherwise has ruled that it's invalid judgment and you know. I think Judge Kaplan staked a good part of his career reputation on at decision. I mean he wrote five hundred pages and spent a lot of energy on it. Denied me jury? By the way it was a bench trial and he kept pushing the case in Canada and other jurisdictions he came up with this pretext. I believed to charge me criminally In lock me up and on the only lawyer by the way in. Us history that our research shows has been detained on a contempt charge. Pre-trial I mean it's you know and they're also treating his misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of six months geometry. Believe I'm totally innocent. But you know they'll probably try to deny me jury because misdemeanor those recharge Mr Chose Charges Misdemeanors. Don't get a jury generally And you know they're going to try to. I think falsely imprison me for several months. And they've already gotten ten months out of it and I don't know how long it's going to be before I can get a trial but the crazy part also just blows my mind. I didn't realize this until recently is that when Judge Kaplan charged criminally he took the case to the US Attorney's office you know the regular prosecutor. They rejected the charges. They refuse to do the case so he took it upon himself to appoint a private prosecutor a corporate lawful. That is stunning to me. That was the thing when I read it in the intercept articles that I like. I like my brain couldn't quite process it. You know I can think about this case. It's like you know it's it's sad. But it's not surprising to find out that a company like Chevron could poison millions of acres of rainforest and the people who live on it and then try to avoid responsibility for it. The part in your case is the emergence of judge. Lewis Kaplan is this kind of singular figure and his a New York district judge who was able to appoint a private law firm that represents Chevron to prosecute you on behalf of New York State. Am I getting that right or on behalf of the? Us Federal Government. So okay is. He's a federal judge. This is all at the federal level but the point is the government. You have a private loft. Yeah it said has stepped into the shoes of the government. The private law firm Is Not disinterested. I mean they have ties to the oil and gas industry. There isn't a number of big oil majors and they also just found out represents Chevron basically have the I think it's unprecedented where the private corporation that has been attacking me for ten years because I want a judgment against it as now had one of its private law firms act in the name of the US government to deprive me of my liberty. I mean Chevron is basically in my view prosecuting criminally in the name of the yeah after Akron failed to win civil case. I mean it's head. Yeah so the judge. Lewis Kaplan appointed the law firm of seward and Kissel. As you said that you've now found out represent has represented Chevron in the past to prosecute you on behalf of the US government in what is essentially a contempt charge art. Because I refuse to turn over my computer and Cell Phone Chevron which I believe is an unconstitutional order by cap that appeal look. I'm a man of the rule of law. Want to be very clear. I respect the court's toll. Judge Kaplan that if I lost my appeal on this very very critical issue I obviously would comply with the order and turn over my devices. It's illegal and unconstitutional just unjustified but instead of letting my appeal play out by the way my peel. On that issue is still pending. In the civil case he charged me criminally appointed a longtime colleague. to preside over the case who you know. And he didn't abide by local rules requiring random assignment of cases in I walked into court and man. I was just unbelievably shocked. I never imagined this could happen. And she detained me. I mean it was just extraordinary in the very first day August sex and ever since number wearing an ankle bracelet kind of his big chase and looks like a garage door opener around my talks to me and blinks and half to recharge batteries. And I can't even go out in the hallway. My apartment building without permission court officer. Now I have been able to get out With permission to take my son to and from school and do some things like apple since the Kobe pandemic it. I've been pretty much stayed in an unable to leave for a really long time. I mean most people in quarantine in New York at least get out to walk around and they social distance and can get exercise. Get some Sun. You know I can't do any of that So like just going back a little bit like after the original case was ruled in your favor Do you remember what you felt then? Did you think that you know that this is a big victory? Did you expect Chevron to pay up or were you expecting them to continue to drag their feet by any means necessary to stall this out or just not pay always expected Chevron due to do they could not to pay but I also thought as a public company they would try to take steps to comply with the rule of law and complied with the judgment enter into settlement discussions? Which they did do they? Were trying to low ball. The people of Ecuador the hallway through and we kept going and they decided there was a law firm that had representing them got fired and replaced by another law firm the Pitch Chevron on the theory that they can allege I had committed fraud and that law firm his Gibson Dunne and crutcher and they a history of selling to corporations ridden with scandal. This theory that own. You've got gotta go after the lawyers. Because obviously indigenous people of Ecuador chevrons victims have no lawyers. They're defenseless so again rather than litigated on the merits they want to go. After the warriors in most law firms I don't think would do that. This particular offer makes a has built entire practice out of it and I think it's unethical on every level. It doesn't work unless there's a judge willing to go along with it. You know. Judge cap on signalled from the Gecko that they should bring this case he he said. Why don't you bring a Rico case? He said that from the which they they then proceeded to do. And they filed it before we won the judgment in Ecuador. In other words they had the rico the racketeering case pending against me and others at the time we won the case they wanted to change the narrative and say Oh we don't lose. The case look really happened lawsuit in the Rico case either way Rico. Aw can be used civilly I private parties in the United States. And it's very dangerous because as it was intended to target the mafia but it's been co-opted by corporations like Chevron and others to target environmental activists and try to criminalize people who try to hold corporations accountable particular fuel industry for polluting and for climate change and all the other problems they're causing the earth. So you know I'M A. I'm sort of like a climate. Change political prisoner. I mean forcing an oil company to pay for the cost of its pollution rather than tried to externalize it on the backs of motorable communities and griff off the public which is what most oil companies do esther critical Harvard any strategy to change this world for the better and to save the environment so when they attack a person like me buyer mental lawyer human rights defender attacking the Earth Island Earth defender. They're attacking indigenous people through me and they're attacking. Everyone cares about climate change and wants to save our planet. And you know. This isn't just a lawyer. I am a symbol of something that scares the hell out of them which is citizen action which is using the courts to hold the fossil fuel industry accountable for all of its pollution of its misdeeds. All of its griff getting I mean. Think about it. They pulled out billions of dollars of profits from Ecuador and left behind a multi billion dollar disaster at not only is going to cost at least ten billion or more to clean up a inc of all the suffering over the last forty to fifty years all the people who died. I mean that's not even part of the lawsuit compensation to individuals so you know even if they have to pay the full judgement they're still getting away with with not paying for a massive amount of damage they caused it. Even that you know which is the judgment again is one fifth of what? Ep is paid for the spot far smaller albeit disastrous deepwater horizon pollution scandal. And they don't want to pay that they're literally spending. I think in the small billions fighting US rather than dealing with the communities as they should and rather than complying with the law. Yeah it's upsetting but I'm hopeful. I actually believe were the people of Ecuador GonNa get there and get compensation ultimately so blatant ultimately the I mean like you said it's not so much about the the the you know the number of Zeros on what they have to pay rather than the precedent said not just for them but the entire fossil fuel extraction industry in general right like this is like this is more important to them than just being liable for some some like an environmental disaster. That's exactly right. I mean they see this as the tip of the spear I mean if you go around the world particularly in developing countries emerging economies Ecuador Peru Nigeria on summit Bolivia so many places around the world oil and mining companies left huge environmental legacy problems at combined probably have liabilities in the trillions of dollars. You know so if the idea of a community with no money confine lawyers like me and the others raise money that you've been able to do and really tap into this new what I call human rights economic model. It's a paradigm where you can raise capital to actually get into the playing field with the oil companies ways you know. Historically these indigenous was never able to do you can attract top legal talent talent. You can win case you can really shift Shift liabilities from you to them as should happen under the law so I think they're terrified by the model. They're terrified by the case. I don't think it's as much particular liability in our case as it is. The idea of having a lot of liabilities like this cross a number of cases which is why they're trying to not only not. Hey the Ecuadorians in this case. But I think they're trying to kill off the very idea of the case by attacking the warriors and trying to send a message to any young warrior any experienced lawyer if you want to actually do these cases and be successful enough to win them on a level that is commensurate with the damage caused. We will go after you. And that's what they're doing to me and I it's why by the way I need support. Recently Twenty Nine Nobel laureate signed a statement of support for me and I'm getting a lot of support I need more need citizen support. We set up a website. M help Amazon watching environmental group. That's been enormously helpful to me To get support for people to take action which I'd like to share with your listeners. At some point we need I need l. In his case Had absolutely no like if We will definitely share that the embassy but before we got there. I just I was wondering like so the judge Lewis Kaplan like you remember when you first became aware of him or you began to be aware of. I don't know the his role and being seeming I don't know I guess very eager to Believe or you know. Go ahead with this case against you like and like you know just as General I mean I I read. That he had said spoke glowingly in the past about the importance of companies. Like Chevron to America's overall economy and security Like what do you? What do you make of judge? Lewis Kaplan and what did you first become aware of him? As a figure in this case he was assigned like a discovery action initiated by Chevron back in two thousand ten I think they steered it to him and he just sorta gobbled up the case and just building it up I think is a testament to what he wanted to do at that point in his career. I mean I never felt that he was ever treated me your clients in the fairway. He said things from the band's like he called it on if I were to Gatien. He refused to acknowledge was a lawyer. He called me a PR flack He said I was the next big thing in in fixing the balance of payments deficit. Just weird comments that show. You know a judge that isn't really temperate judicious Which is what you would expect from the bench and I saw this in very beginning and knows very obvious when he was working closely with Chevron lawyers and trying to damage procedurally every step of the way trying to limit my ability to raise money and limit my ability to protect my documents and in making all these decisions really designed to destroy me. I could feel it happening. I could see it happening. Everybody who watched saw it happening I knew it was. It was a process that the judge was trying to engineer. The result of and it was not a fair process even even permitted me and my other fellow colleagues from putting in any evidence of any environmental evid evidence meaning any of the thousands of chemical scientific results that prove Chevron uprooted or as a matter of fact judge capital. Let us talk about in. Other words is whole cases about pollution is about probably the world's worst or related pollution and we get up to judge capitals courtroom and he wouldn't let us talk about the most important thing about the case all became about me you know and that was by design it was it was about shifting the narrative and he went along with an unfortunately and it culminated in accepting this witness testimony from Garra who had been paid openly at least two million dollars in cash benefits from Chevron and later admitted lying in Mac testimony largely on that testimony Judge Kaplan found me libel and from that Chevron has taken another series of steps pushed him that has resulted in the deprivation of liberty. I mean it's extraordinary and it's scary because I really hope this is not where our country is heading. You know. We're we're activists get put in in prison or get detained because of their activism. And I believe that's what's happening to me and when I when I when I read this story that was to me the most terrifying thing about this is that I was just wondering you know. Is this like like an? Auger of the future is this. We're we're all headed. We're essentially our justice. System is not not just co-opted or captured by corporate power but works for them directly like either as as as a judge literally acting as their defense or even more frightening allowing them to prosecute you quite literally and I guess like when we were talking a little earlier about this I guess like you talked about how regulatory capture of government I industry is something that we're all aware of and it's a big problem at every level of our our society but like this new level of brazenness and just openly in the legal system itself is is really shocking and it's terrifying to think where that could go if this is allowed to just become a kind of standard where a corporation can like a judge point a private law firm that represents a corporation to prosecute a citizen of this country In Federal Court on behalf of the government of the United States. Well I think it's actually even worse than what you described. I case because seward and Kissel S Chevron is a client they worked with a company called OAKTREE capital just two executive on Chevrons board and they never disclosed those when they were appointed by Judge Kaplan to being my prosecutor so base the have a situation where you you know. Private Law Firm is prosecute it has Chevron as a client is prosecuting criminally. The lawyer who one nine point five billion dollar judgement against Chevron it's it's unthinkable and it's it's even more unthinkable that the judges who are presiding over this case really to judges Judge Kaplan and another judge named Radha Preska. You know don't seem to be the leaks bothered by you know. There's a latent conflict of interest. We have expert testimony from a highly regarded expert. That says this firm should be disqualified In the judges just ignore it. I mean we just filed today another motion with a federal court to look at this issue. You know because there's simply no way mine can get a fair trial a situation where I don't have a jury and the prosecutor is conflicted and obviously working the service Chevron and I think it's all related to my attention I mean you know why am I the first lawyer editor Bettega detained pretrial on a criminal contempt charge even one day and I've been here ten ten months now you know it's obviously in my mind because seward kissel working on behalf of who they should be working for which is the US government and the interested in public. The public interest okay of Justice. No clearly working on behalf. I think the royalties are with their private client. That has every interest. Yes tainting me. So I cannot continue to litigate. Effectively enforced judge. I mean it would be impossible for anyone who takes like an objective. Look at the details of this case not to conclude that the judges and prosecutors in this case are basically working on behalf of Chevron and the our not just Chevron the oil and extraction industries as a whole to guard their interests against either future damages or just any criminal liability at all and then punish the people who again in a court of law one a like a legal case against them. Well you know. I think it's important as we watch this unfold. We don't lose hope for the rule of law in this country. You know this I'd like to think this is an extreme example of dark kinda underbelly that you see in terms of the corporate influence in our government nordisk system but you know doesn't permeate it completely by any means there's a lot of good judges. A lot of diesel courts were justice can be done but overall people need to wake up and be more vigilant. Because on some of the pockets of our judiciary there are judges and law firms with very pro-corporate Agendas And they will literally be ruthless to get what they want. Even law is not respected. I think that's what happening in my case when people need to wake up to this because you know these slat lawsuits which are really filed by corporations for harassment purposes to intimidate activists You need to train yourself to look for them and notice when they're happening and deal with them effectively not get sucked into the litigation and spending all your money. Defending yourself is. They're really designed to get people to go bankrupt and spend all their time defending their reputations versus what they really want to do is hold the corporation accountable. People need to be aware of this phenomenon. By the way there's a new organization called protect the protest which I recommend people go to their website to learn more about this very dangerous Chen and by the way. I'm not the only being targeted Greenpeace's has been targeted other environmental groups. Protesters have been targeted. There's a fabulous organization. Eugene Oregon called Civil Liberties Defense Center that handles a lot of these cases under its leaders of the leadership of its director. O'regan So you know. There's a lot of activity to now to combat this abuse of the legal system but there is a huge amount of work left to do to get people to become more aware of this. This dangerous trend. I just Just just finally here Could you let you let me know let us know? Just where does your case currently stand now? I mean like wh what does it look like? You know the next five six seven months going forward and then finally at the end like if Our listeners would like to learn more about this case and get involved Where where can they go? What what should they? So you know if people WANNA get involved to how we have a website set up called make Chevron clean up dot com all one word makes Chevron Cleanup Dot Com. And there's some information about how you can take action to help me so it'd be great if people could go to that website and sign up and I'll send you an occasional newsletter about what's going on with the case we can just sort of build a hopefully a community of support in terms of my cases very unclear where it's heading. I have a trial right now. Scheduled Start Chewing fifteen. But you know there's so many issues that have arisen because of this conflict of interest in what we believe is prosecutorial misconduct. That those issues have to be litigated. But you know. My interest is to have a quick resolution as possible before an impartial fact-finding meaning fair neutral judge and a fair jury among were fighting. You know in America's not a given you get a trial of that's fair you have to fight even for you know for your rights in the trial process itself So you know in the meantime on detain and we're trying to get off my get me Outta here. A judge Kaplan and judge Preska and you know the Sudan kissel off or keep coming up with all sorts of reasons why I'm a threat to the public order or might flee the jurisdiction which again I reject totally think those are just pretext to key detained and keep me from traveling so I think it's very unclear where it's heading. I am hopeful or to believe the courts will treat me fairly like unlike how judge capitalist on it in my view civil see how it plays out but I'm in a lot of you a lot of potential danger. I don't know where it's heading. I need people to become aware of this. Go to the website. Read our press releases and follow me on twitter to put a lot of stuff out on twitter. It's at s Danziger G. E. R. And you can get a more immediate updates about the case if you follow me well We will include links to all of those websites and twitter at in the show description of this episode Stephen Danziger. I WanNa thank you so much for your time as and say Just stay strong. Stay safe stay sane and we all are really hoping that you will be a free sometime in the near future and that this Ridiculous You is you know sees justice in a court or at least a quarter of public opinion after this show so once again Stephen. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for having me. Good luck really appreciate it. Thank you all right. And we're back joining me. Now of course is Matt and Felix. Hello Boys Hey hello hello. Hello Liz all right so to kick things off Chris could you bring up just sent the link to the chat? Yeah we'RE GONNA watch the video here and you're going to hear the audio. I mean this is just something I saw. That is It let's just say it synthesizes. A lot of of Chapo thought seven Smith who works. I did digital work for people to change the other day. How Travis Scott's over ninety and how? That was a really creative way to think about it that if we could you down with. Joe Biden Yield Joe Biden projected against the grain with this exclusive Yes yes yes this is this is. This is election bladerunner. Twenty forty nine. That's going Joe Biden like a colossus like virtual Joe Biden a striding over fortnight. Island like Ozzy Mantius. Just just listen. Listen I still want travis. Scott some music playing in the background. Yeah yeah well. I like the idea that Joe by would be like after Doctor Manhattan. Restructured himself when see bond is Destroyed him and comes back. Listen listen the world's smartest Jack Snow more threat to me than the world's greatest Mac. I favor of this. Because if there's one thing that the rich history of human you know politics and also you know films and books when is not the giant floating head of an authority figure dot side out? What does that not a good thing to see? Know that you're one of the good parts. You're you're not one of those. Now the floating giant head of authority figure that's always the side of Utopia for sure it would be a good little thing to do in the last year of America. Oh Yes yes oh it. Would we look back at this and we're like oh man. We really thought that was GONNA do it. Joe Biden in fortnight was going to do it. We still collapse. No but like I I have to admit I thought that the Ford Night Travis. Scott was kind of cool sucker but like I don't know there's something sort of vaguely like a dystopia and surreal about but like I just like the the the image of this like this giant Astrid in the Ford Island while people were running around listening to his music but as cool as that was Joe Biden during a campaign event. Where it's just like. He's he's eight hundred feet tall and in like one of those weird like fortnight's skins like the gingerbread man or men in black or you know. Kobe Lebron or something like that vandross. Yeah thank you Joe Biden into Thanos skin shows and then he snaps balances the budget. I would be so fucking cool. I mean I don't I don't play for it anymore. They ruined the box fight. Meta four hours about the box Meta how? It's important to me but I stopped playing it. Full Time Playing Valerie. Now and see who the hell is this for. No one else four-night of h to vote yet undiscovered server. Wait so they're all like Dutch. Nine Year olds but but Felix Win Win for Win Travis Scott. Did the did the concert in the Fortnight Universe. Like could you you were so you could still play the game. It was just travis. Scott was just always on the horizon or was it just people running around listening to travel. Sky was just like a full honor concert. It was like you think you're queuing and for one hundred player Battle Royale. I don't WanNa talk about the weapons matter right now makes me very upset but So they did one of these before and it was just like there's a concert and one of the locations on the map but I think this one was like production value. Bigger like he was massive. And you couldn't kill each other you could. What's Travis Scott? Okay so paddock. Also Joe. Biden's got good drill where you couldn't kill panic mode oh no the PR nightmare if Jason Aldean concerted fort someone half it unlocked. Paddock's kids. I'M. I'm a little disappointed because I mean I. I just liked the idea of a Colossus Joe Biden just wondering around the giant. Go Act this world-leading world he's and he's wandering around but then everyone's doing the philosophy and then you could also get the legendary scar. Do some parodies at the giant Joe Biden as well as it was just like Joe Biden did the fortinet event but like it was just e- every every teenager logged on just to to to fire guns at home while they would make him destructible. Yeah you know. He destructible but like he could he could shoot guns back. You could giant like Colossus guns and just destroy everyone in Fort night that one fell swoop. That'd be cool. I think another thing. We have the technology for this other thing like if we work with China I saw I live on the eighth floor of building right. Imagine what day I wake up. And there's just Joe Biden's giant bloody is looking through my work now. Would-be imagine you'll life's colossus. Joe Biden Hologram Felix Felix feeling like Fay wray when Colossus. Joe Reaches through his window rubbing shoulders and smell his hair. Come on man got a lot of nuts in you. Let's get him out of the mouth. Man Claims he gets harassed and surrounded by big cars just huge long cars driving in circles around Joe Biden as he gets pissed. Mega Joe. One reaches into that Felix Department. Says come Mac ever seeing you ever see Manhattan from the top of the Empire State Building. You don't know what you're missing. They had they get they find fat from that video like blow him up to fight is hey pacific dim well okay so this is from. This is courtesy of Chapel all-star Liz Smith You know I think it's pretty officially established that we and support her. She's the Queen. She's a queen she's a hustler. She's a winner. I mean her candidate didn't win but let's be honest. It doesn't really matter she. She's a winner. She's a winner. She's always going to finish on top. She she she cannot be faded long winner. She's always you don't you can't get rid of a person like that they're always gonNA stick around. I mean she's Oh man feels like so long ago remember. Would she like? I'm say drunkenly but her typing style was like that of someone who has drunk. Yeah yelled at me. That was awesome. Well I mean I just I give her credit because you know in in the original clip she she brings up the Travis Scott for not idea and honestly Joe Biden having campaign events in Fort. I think actually is a brilliant idea. Save for the fact that no one who plays it? Ken Vote and most of them aren't even citizens of America anyway. But it's a better. He's thinking in more creative way like a given the sort of strictures of now the the Cova Corentin and Joe Biden's general inability to campaign at all or speak coherently on television. She's coming up with some pretty good ideas. I mean I felt like these other. These other fucking lames are other saying it doesn't matter traditional. Campaigning doesn't actually matter. All Joe Biden needs to do is just fog a mirror until election. Day Bill. Sure reading and politico today even suggested Joe Biden go shop. Oh I mean if you're coming up with dogs. Shed ideas like that. That's an awesome idea. I would talk about the election at all and he would be. I would love to talk about like hot dog stands. He's been to like whether lawn jockeys racist or not like talk about. I mean Bill I would I look. I love La I say dog should idea from. Would it help his campaign to become was a great idea for us and by the way if you are Joe Biden and would like to come on shop and maybe because you know we'll give a fair hearing to him obviously improbably introduce a lot of Bag audience to you know getting them on board for voting for Joe Biden. I mean if you you know you definitely GonNa want him to come on our show. That's what you're trying to achieve right so the interesting thing with. Liz is because Joe Biden's campaign like the Democrats just sort of gave it threw him out of fear of of Bernie winning it. It means that he didn't Joe's campaign did figure out who the dead weight was. And I'm starting to think everyone on that campaign because they can't even run a fucking call without joe clipping through it like skyrocketed P faulk. Are they going to do anything? But that's the thing for Helix. I was just thinking about this. We've been making fun of how they've been so digitally inept just getting a facebook. Live things to work. You know talking about how it took them weeks to set up a podcast studio in his house all that stuff are we sure that he is not CGI. Oh I'm not really kidding about that. Because do we know the full capacity for digitally rendering someone since entering that? That's the only way anyone's GonNa see Joe Biden until the election. Thanks to the God Damn Quarantine. Yeah he's like that Al Pacino Movie Simone or exact thing I mean I'm joking but also that not. Is it possible that at least some of the Joe Biden we're seeing is a Hologram for lack of a better term? You know what like? What if like mean crazy shit's happened? I mean my God. We saw him. I like two weeks ago when he they wheel them out and he just gave up halfway through every quarter answer to a question just say never mind. That was stupid. I shouldn't have said that. He doubts his halfway through every answer. I've never seen that before. That was so depressing that before from anybody in politics anyone anywhere people recovering from head injuries. Don't talk like that. Yeah the only the only time you'd you'd see that as being prosecuted on the witness stand under being cross examined by the prosecution and then just like was getting destroyed. Yeah just decided to like. Stop at stop answering before incriminated. Oh Jeez yeah forget it. Can we forget I said that? Can we struck the records questions? They weren't even asking US questions. It was like one of those Dana Bash interviews which is like Joe. What's your favorite snack to eat on? Amtrak holding he was holding to those questions. But my real point was that like loose. Smith is coming up with some pretty fire ideas whereas other people coming up with ideas like Joe Biden. Go AND SHOP O. Obviously I'd love that. I'm skeptical whether it would help. His campaign would help immensely but for the record. I don't think it will you know? Get him a any more of a sympathetic hearing than he would. Otherwise get from our podcast audience. That's not pod safe America but Liz original idea was like using the fortnight idea. She was like what if we could project a Hologram of Joe Biden on the Grand Canyon or in the Grand Canyon. And it's just like yes. Why can't we do that because met you know? You're saying the other day if the Democrat swamp out Joe Biden at the convention which they might do. I go back and forth in this every day. 'cause I thought like there's no way it can be Cuomo with like you. Know the mass graves filling up on Hart's Island in his fucking the in his state his idiotic mismanagement of this like he's unable to do anything other than just appear on and pointed power points in like a semi convincing way but like on its face the record. The numbers are not good but then again I look at Joe Biden and I'm like what the fuck man. How can they do this? There's got to be so I just don't see he. How can he goes through a whole election especially since they should win this thing? Yes they should but no what you said is if they do swirl slot swap out Joe Biden like if he's not ultimately going to be the guy the the final final boss for the Democrats the main reason that they would do that is to rob us of the glory. That would be a trouble fucking assholes but in lieu of the debate. I would almost take ten thousand foot. Tall Hologram. Joe Biden just a striding across America. I am I like if we don't get the fucking trump bite into like there's no fucking just dissolve the point of any of this and we can't have that. I want to see the two most confused old man s have two totally separate conversations at the same time just whipping past each other. I want Joe Biden into like his voice to crack. He starts crying while he defends Graydon Carter. I want like a serious argument over. Whose son is more handsome where they both forget several their their children. I wanted like. There's if you're not gonNA give this to us if you're going to have this elected not give us at debate. It's like what's the point of any of this seriously. We don't get some just a nice little cherry on top. I just have this feeling in my gut. We'RE NOT GONNA get it or they're gonNA cancel them or something. There's just no way we're going to get anything that good no yeah. I would probably cry. If we don't get it. I probably will like it. It's I literally. We were talking about this two years ago. We talked about like two years ago. We did like half it episode about how much we want to trump biden debate. Yeah yes and this is even possible and now it's supposed to happen and yet I still know it won't okay. It's terrible that is because we're all aware of just how utterly grim and apocalyptic it is that like these are the guys who have to vote for president for but like the they've they've moved heaven and earth to make sure that that's the only thing that can happen something that stupid and then they're gonNA pretend it's not real by not even observing the traditional forms of going through the fucking motions of it which is putting them on stage together for a couple of hours and letting them talk to each other unadulterated. They're not even going to do that. Come on man come on man. Yeah give me trump thinking it's one thousand nine hundred eighty five and he's like yelling at a Bouncer fucking studio fifty seven or something and fucking Biden. Thinks it's nineteen fifty five and he's like a champ and under the sea dance. Hit me this. I want a forty five minute part of the debate. We're Joe Biden. Thinks he's answering a question on the Sally Hawkins Dance Donald Trump. He's answering question about Liz Smith. Not Liz Smith who worked for people to judge I WANNA I WANNA I WANNA get back to Liz Smith Judge Liz Smith because you know in her comments to politico about creating the the Biden Mec decreasing the Biden Geiger whistle be piloted by hunter and another son. Another politico hunger is Hungary. Ishijima car like a hooker is. He's like smoking crack with methodical pay. Paygrade would've thought day. Oh absolutely Shuji. Shinji Shinji was too gun shy like Oh Masada. I saw your boob coming out of the bathroom like no hunter would have just been pounding beers with her Eating lots of food and Yeah just sucking her toes in front of the Penguin. Yeah no it's really fucked. It's totally different show. Hunter would have like felt an obligation to pilot a unit would but he would have been the first guy to get a Dui differ. Joe Like Shit like even. There's just all about like you know Shinji too scared will he pilot the ocean. She you're going to get any EVA or not. Maybe like okay. We need hunter to polity. What's that he's already in there? He's already in there and he's already walk through a building accidentally hunter. Ud to put together twelve hours of sobriety at the would gotten a tattoo of all the Dead Sea Scrolls to scene and This is so cool. This is the this answers all my questions of life. No that's a that's an even better show well at the fourth area was drawn out of an opinion piece that Liz Smith just wrote for the New York Times this week titled how Joe Biden can defeat trump from his basement and she says here head is if you can win the battle for our screens. He can benefit from the death of the traditional presidential campaign house win the battle against trump first screens. That's impossible. He's the screen master. Yep All bindings pose like it feels stupid to call by post. Because they're done by like a thirty three year old with a very precise undercut but they're like the only one who remembers what we respected the President More Fun. Shitty like his digital presence is very anemic. What is this article? Okay associated. If Joe Biden plays his cards right. The death of the traditional presidential campaign will turn out to be a blessing in disguise. The seventy seven year old Mr Biden whom the president derisively calls sleepy. Joe Can become the hottest bad boy and disruptor in the media. Game the hottest bad boy lake rapist. The hottest said he's sneaking puddings the in the break room. He is the hottest bad boy and DISRUPTOR IN THE MEDIA GAME. And Yeah no worries very disruptive would your dementia addled grandfather just comes in like four's molasses in the coffee maker describes about how How how like this is how you make a steam bath? It's disruptive what your grandfather's pants fall down it's disruptive. Would you have to put them in a home? He so you. Hey Rupture in the sense. Look you're forget it. He was a member of one of Wilmington's bad asses to do op groups. Yeah no back when GANG SING SONGS. Terrifying. Yeah Joe Biden was like dookie going on and she says here. It seems likely that social distancing will force the presidential campaign to be played out entirely on our screens that will free Mr Biden. The presumptive Democratic nominee of the burden of running a grueling expensive campaign involving incessant travel instead he can be digitally omnipresent at a small fraction of the cost and physical toll and create a New Paradigm. For how presidential campaigns communicate in the press for years to come. Mr Biden's greatest asset as a campaigner. His palpable empathy politicians can earn a lot of tricks talking points debate and interview strategies but personal wardrobe is something that cannot be taught. It also happens to be a trait that translates well on television. I mean this is just restating. What we read last week about hit their their online digital empathy strategy. Yeah well I mean Joe Biden like something that Joe Biden has an has had as a politician is like yeah dementia shits funny but he does have an ability to connect with if the conditions are right it meaning like if it's before five o'clock I guess and the person is an antagonistic to them. He can have like what looks like a genuine moment voters because he doesn't hate talking to people. Yeah but I don't. He needs to be in front of them. Joe Biden is not of the facetime generation. Yeah he's not going to read a fucking comment and have a genuine human moment with them like this is if anything in disaster for the Biden Campaign for the thing could kind of do. Yeah No. That's true it's all it's all. He's the King of that retail one on one. You Know Sh- Chigney Irish bullshit. That is not gonNA work with Fucking zoom calls to like commercials and stuff if anything. This is the worst thing that could have happened to his camp at. Yeah yeah he's he's not going to be doing those tick tock videos. He's just sitting there and like a little bubble will come up that says Medicare for all healthcare free at the point of service. Nope then points over his other shoulder. And it's just like you know Means tested employer-backed You know healthcare tax credits. Yup well he could. Do you see that tick tock of like the. This is the saddest tick doc. I've ever seen it was somebody's dad wearing an arrow postal hoodie which is already starting out very sad. But it's like him just hitting his kids TV with a baseball bat. Talk like that with Joe. Biden him doing that. The Hunter lists continues here. She says. Think about Biden's two thousand seventeen appearance on the view when he comforted a visibly emotional Meghan McCain after her father Senator John McCain learned he had terminal brain cancer it was wrong and remarkable moment of live TV and most season politicians would have struggled. Mr Biden thrived. I mean yeah because I somebody. He was next to somebody in the flesh. He wasn't looking at a phone thinking that it's taking his soul which is now like what the fuck are you talking about? Also I don't think it's like you know that unique. I do agree. That Biden does have little. He does have that like little bit of that. Politicians CHARISMA THAN AND LITTLE PERSONAL TOUCH. That people respond to sterile. Yeah in in in person or even I guess when they see a clip of it. But like I don't think it was that big of a stretch to comfort someone who's just found out that their parent is dying of cancer. You know like it was a big stretch because if I was there in Joe Biden Place. I've been like. Aren't you like forty? Yeah everyone's happy. Everyone's parents died of cancer. Dude them down I roll. I won't go viral for the I like mad at me but viral and method this This human touch is especially important at a time when voters are looking as much for a healer chief as they are a commander in chief it sets up. A stark contrast with president trump who in crisis after crisis has demonstrated a lack of empathy and inability to feel Americans pain. See that's only true. To a certain extent because he feels and communicates the pain and empathizes with the segment of the country. That really loves him but that segment of the country is so fundamentally of us that is impossible to understand but he is showing empathy for the beautiful boaters. He's out there for the boaters. He's out there for the you know Small Business Owners who want people to go back to apple? They want to go back to the bad food restaurants. That's who he's empathizing with but like you know they're like I know that the president wants me to be eaten kicking flip. Dippers right now. It's just have the empathy that trump does. It doesn't seem like empathy to your eye or like a a human being but his fan base. Who a good chunk of this country. Trump definitely is a healer in chief. He's he's healing US every day. He's helping us every day and everybody else is basically checked out of this because they know it's a grisly facade because neither one of them is telling them that there's going to be anything other than pain and horror in the foreseeable future because there's no alternative to it. Yeah that's exactly it like the people that the imbecile who wrote this article thinks that Joe Biden is appealing to with genuine moments. He's not really like appealing to people who are on the edges precarity or are like going to kill themselves because they have no income from this thing and there is like no really not even a attempt of their relief that they need for them and their families. Joe Biden's like he's relieving people who the reason they care about politics because trump just like Gibson this ambient anxiety not that he liked really affects their lives lake. That's the healing. He's doing like the healing. Trump is doing is like towards. I don't know like a guy in the in the fucking Illinois excerpts who Remember when he didn't use to hear baselines coming from people's lifted trucks it's different. It's different types of like fucking dumb idiot healing for different type of fucking idiots with the majority of people completely checked out of the Brazos solicit myth goes on here to talk about. How like a big part of the strategy should be Biden's in focusing heavily on local TV in radio in Pennsylvania Michigan and Wisconsin Which is actually not a bad idea and also she says heavily on Spanish language media and radio like univision in Spanish language radio stations. Which you know that is more of a like a PR pretty smart traditional campaign thing to do suppose these are. These aren't awful ideas like Liz. Smith isn't like he's a shitty person but she's not completely dumb. I WANNA get into like you know outside of you know what is pretty pretty standard normal campaign advice especially like you know local media like where the most people still get their news from. And they're still trusted like unlike the media as a whole which is almost universally distrusted. At this point it's sort of like the phenomenon of like everyone distress. Congress but oh yeah but yeah by conservatives or or Really Trust the media. They love it. Think it's all true and they wanna kiss all the news people. I wish I wish journalist got. Ptsd like troops. It'd be great. No but I mean is it's like it's a little bit like the phenomenon of where everyone says they hate congress. And don't trust it. But they like their congressman. And that's sort of like local news and local radio immediate even though like those are also vanishing owned by probably one or two companies now Going on here. It says here while Mr Biden is his own most effective messenger. He alone cannot carry out a winning media strategy. The campaign should lean on its vast network of supporters elected officials community leaders celebrities who are chomping at the bid to make their voice heard in this election. He can deploy former Democratic rivals. Like Pete Buddha Judge Elizabeth Warren Injure Yang and Bernie Sanders to blanket local national and partisan media with a message of how important it is for Democrats of all stripes and candidate loyalties to turn out for Mister Biden in November. He can lean on his celebrity supporters to share good news about his campaign on their platforms. Ariana Grande Day outspoken. Democrat has over one hundred and eighty million followers on instagram. Making her one of the most followed persons in the world. Dwayne Johnson the rock another Democrat also tops. One hundred eighty million followers. First of all. I thought dwayne Johnson was a Republican for sure well Biden. He's a bio Democrat Democrat. Okay at the same thing as being like you know a Republican. Yeah what he was. Which is like Schwarzenegger Rebublican in two thousand fourteen in this is this is fucking stupid. Because like didn't we do this. Two Thousand Sixteen like with the both followers was like God. Vote for Hillary People. They appeal to cultural liberals. That's an so insane crackpots like they had no matter what they had everything they had ever celeb- it was everybody except Jon. Voight and it did not matter. They had an. I remember Sweden directed commercial. That had every one of the fucking aventures saying vote for Hillary met nothing. The God thanksgiving Avengers avengers the day adventures. The Guy who made more money than any film fucking phenomenon of the entire last decade and they were all there looking directly into the camera saying vote for Hillary and it didn't fucking matter. Yeah Culture Shit. The thing with culture shit is like anyone who's walking his usually like made up their mind one way or the other and I don't just mean like made up their mind to vote Republican or vote Democrat. I mean may of their mind to vote Democrat Republican or that they don't care about the shit at all which is also logical fucking conclusion. I mean if you really WANNA gay. Extreme with how meaningless is culture should is. I mean like Hitler loved Charlie. Chaplin Chaplin made entire movie about how bad Hitler he was like. Oh that's disappointing. I'm still going to do the Holocaust they're going to do like doesn't fucking mean anything Just it's it's a way for celebrities who feel like an ambient guilt about how much fucking money they have and how competently easy. Their lives are compared to everyone else to sue to buy an indulgence. And it's perfect adulterants. Because it doesn't fucking do anything Well I mean maybe celebrities won't help but she also mentioned here. Mr Biden also harnessed in new found star power and credibility of the corona virus. Governors like Andrew Cuomo Gretchen Whitmer and Gavin newsom to highlight the lifer dates death stakes of this election. Yeah no I really actually do support getting cuomo out there as a fucking example of the life and death emphasis on the death part of that their stakes in this election. And here's here's another thing. She mentioned a Cuomo newsom. And whitmer record. I know she's being mentioned as a VP candidate. Possibly but how come. Jay Inslee is in this conversation because we know now that like he was the one governor who actually did the right thing and handle the like his outbreak in the best possible way into an NC like his his policies otherwise like they saw a fucking hog. He's complete content with that he A lot of his lockdown policies benefited Boeing But like compared to Cuomo in Whitmer. I mean I'm just saying like just on on on on the surface like Seattle was like the first big outbreak in America and for whatever reason Washington state did flatten the curve. In pretty they got a handle on it in a way that New York and California certainly hasn't largely because they'd like you know they lock that shit down pretty quickly. You're going to pick someone like based on how there's corona like Ensley. That's why he did the best job but yeah I think I think it's GonNa be. It's it's turning unto Cuomo one because I think he isn't he basically in the little Saint James Wing of the Democratic Party you know with the New York Democrat. Yeah so so as such like. He's on the inside track as opposed to a lot of these other guys and also. There's just good old-fashioned bias. Which is the real thing twitter? If every time the rain it rains New York. It's all over. It's all over national twitter so every time. Cuomo'S ON TV. It's it's a real thing. And so they focus on it and then they just auto hypnotize themselves into thinking that they're looking at a real leader because they're so terrified of how disastrously inept everyone is. This country cannot break up soon. Enough Toll Andrew Cuomo. He has as much effect. I'm at like what I can move back to the Great Lakes Kingdom and Andrew. Cuomo has much effect on my life is like a governor in Mexico. Oh my God. I'm so sick seeing him. I'm so fucking sick of it. I'm so sick of these fucking journalists. Who what they really want is a father figure. Yeah they wanted they wanted. They wanted US another dad my face. Yeah yeah I know but it's like it's just sort of. I mean. We talked about this before but like this whole contrast now. Set Up between the federal government and the governor's IT works on every level matter of the governor is a Republican or a Democrat. Like everybody has something to blame. But this idea that Cuomo or newsom has a better handle on this shit than anyone doesn't affect. I mean maybe like you know like the people advising them or not like jared Kushner and like like a Heritage Foundation economists giving them advice on Epidemiology. But let's be honest fucking lower guy my pillow man the May and the my pillow guy but like pretty much. Nobody really has a handle on this or is handling it in a way that you would hope fucking incompetent government or executive would so but like everybody has someone to blame. It's perfect I. You drive me insane about this. Election at no point is going to be an issue or talked about that. This is the richest fucking country on earth that we won lottery with both with space and resources and also population and we people are like well. You know sanitizing wipes will be back in July. That were completely napped. Country that everything we had. We traded away and the average person's life is no fucking better for the thing the election is going to be about. We'll be How much can I get the average person to fucking bitch about China's something that that's not who did this to you? Or how much can I get the person to care about? If there's dignity in the White House and goals leadership like those fucking mean anything either. We had global leadership. That's when we fucking gave away all the supply chains and everything and that's why we can't make enough fucking paper masks in this dog shit country that can do nothing shady husk of a dog. Shit fucking country all the money. Into what like two aircraft carriers. Whose main jobs getting lost. That WON'T BE AN ISSUE. Just these intangible fucking bullshit things that don't affect anyone's life that will be what it's about. That's why I mean everyone. Who's begging the Bernie people to care about this election? Care about what? I'm going to start arguing about this nation. Go Fuck yourself this election you WanNa to go have fun. Fucking has because at the end of the day it will be. Everyone will acknowledge that. This is a non functional state in critical ways that it cannot do. The basic things to the state is supposed to do especially in crisis even though it has overwhelming resources. Everyone's GonNa have accepted that everyone's going to accept that nothing's going to change for the better. In fact things are only going to get worse even faster than they were. But someone's fault and it's just GONNA be. Who is it at every fucking Democrat is GonNa be like if we get trump out of here that'll solve this And every Republican will be like yes. It was the Chinese or the evil governors. Or whoever the fuck or Clayton Carter. And it'll just be the most sterile pointless argument because none of the foundational problems that government was on that left government unable to respond even if it had wanted to are addressed by any of that argument and to as a you know like a manifestation of just you know how awful and this is the thing to me about this election that the last thing. I want to talk about is it really is like the final shift in the. Democrats are just becoming the new Republican Party. And you know what I'm talking about is something that happened like you know like we've talked about this before it's happened in the past but just like there was another round of like Democrats praising George W Bush and just saying basically saying wouldn't it be you know we made. We may have disagreed with them. But like wouldn't it be good if we had like competent leadership in this country? Again the guy who presided over Iraq and Hurricane Katrina like you know absent. Cova did like an insane amount of debt like more damage this country. Donald Trump fucking dead. That's you know specifically makes me mad about the Bush thing. Yeah obviously the main thing of his presidency was Iraq but like if you're pointing to him as captain job interview did He wouldn't let he wouldn't let a public health crisis spiral out of here. It's like do you remember what Katrina was if anything but it's fucking domestic crisis people that you know. If you're not for Joe Biden exactly like we'll say like you know like obviously I'm aware of George Bush's many international of which I you know. I hope faces justice for but just purely domestic roam. The idea like he was he was a decent man who wouldn't turn his back on like thousands of Americans dying and suffering. It's like well. They all saw that on TV. Fucking gut mom in the in the super dome being like well. These people are leaving in the fucking streets before so. Yeah good yeah. What is the Bonnet family? How explained to me how they're any better than and same demons. We know everyone was talking about that. And other other lamenting or just being like very huffy about you know. Obviously I'm not praising George W Bush miss against the Iraq war as you but I think we can all agree. He was a decent man. Who wouldn't who wouldn't be so callously accepting you know hundreds of thousands of deaths of his fellow citizens Blah Blah Blah. But you know on top of that is. There is a couple articles last week. One in five thirty eight the other in New York magazine by Ed Kilgore about the phenomenon of the never trump republicans. And and like you know we've been making fun of him for years on this show because there's about twelve of them left and you know the ones who have stuck by their guns have been abandoned entirely by the the right wing and the Republican Party in the like. Most of the people who wrote in that National Review Article have completely bent the needed. Donald Trump. Oh yeah there are one hundred percent on his side and we'll defend anything he says in does like they will defend him saying there are ways that we can look into injecting household disinfectants into your bloodstream. To deal with the virus. He's you know when he said Maybe there's a way we can make that work. They said well look. He wasn't literally saying suggesting that you should drink. Bleach injected in your ejected into your fucking arm. But other ones you stuck like stuck to their guns. And I'm talking about Bill Kristol Jennifer Rubin Max boot like George will. They're kind of like the the neo cons right because like they they glommed onto the Reagan administration. I and then the George h the George W Bush administration and sort of like. They were in the driver's seat then and they got what they wanted. Which was exercising this ideological project that they've been developing for decades to make America not gun shy about being a global empire and like using the. Us military is a force for like or democracy in the world and I'm using those in scare quotes and you know now. Trump ran for president basically on stage. Show all of that and none of the Republican voters cared and in fact Anything they've also moved on from the any idea like the US Mil-. I'm not saying they're against war but they would be against any war fought on the pretense of like helping other people or building a democracy. They were there just for a war. Were the president would just openly say. We're we're invading this country to steal it's fucking oil or natural resources right. Yes so the idea was that like oh you. Despite being numerically fairly small the never trump Republicans have actually become a pretty important faction in the Democratic Party or they're exercising a good deal of influence now or like there are people are seeking to court them you know through policy or whatever and my response to that is that these people have not become a faction in the Democratic Party. They are the Democratic Party. They are officially the Democratic Party. Now there is no other wing. I mean you can look at it and say well you know the more Progressive Sanders Wing. Guess you might want to call. It would make up. Maybe even thirty or forty percent of the actual democratic voting base. But they've just been you know. Put in the fucking ground. They've they've done away with entirely. And what we're left with is Jennifer Rubin will have more leverage over a Biden administration than any of these progressive groups currently clamoring for him to do better and like. That's not an accident. It's because these are all the same fucking people they believe the same thing. The never trump Republican faction is just the Democratic Party. They believe the thing things like. And that's what we're going to be left with is. The Democratic Party is going to be the reliable SORTA stakeholders to protect. Us military empire Israel and just free markets in general as the Republicans. Move in a kind of you know maybe. In kind of a `herrenvolk social democratic model of just you know administering benefits and go cutting against the market if it benefits white people only essentially race right and that and they are as diluted the trump people you are as delusional and fantastical to think that we're going to return to an era of global leadership after this leadership of who leadership. How everyone knows. We can't do anything I think. That's the most insane thing about the Biden people. The Biden never trump democrats. Those people the people who think we're going to in their words bring back American global leadership. I they these people make fun of trump all day. But how do we go back we lined up at the free throw line? Our shorts fell down and everyone saw are tiny. Dick and Audi bellybutton. We're going to go back to the world you have to do. Is We say no. No one's fucking listening. No one's fucking listening. We CAN'T DO ANYTHING. It's it's done the funky. The era of the American Empire is coming to a close and any fucking Nicole Wallace type. Who thinks that we're just if Joe Biden makes enough speeches were back? It's the ninety s again where the sole superpower there as insane as the trump people who think he's given me the fucking God emperor. Oh yeah all I'm saying is living in any type of reality. Should he become president? Like expect Bill Kristol and Jennifer Rubin to have a place in in in the administration they will they will alongside Ari Summers Rahm Emanuel the CEO of blackstone. Or whoever whoever the fuck yeah right Schwarzman. Yeah that's GONNA be. Who's in charge like that will be like the Democratic Party will be the Republican Party of like not even like a law. Not even though. I'm talking like the Eisenhower or like earlier like New Deal Paradigm. I'm talking the Republican Party of the George W Bush years absence like any sort of evangelical culture war bullshit but they'll be a cultural issues. They will represent what the Republican Party of. George W Bush stood for right and they will. They will cynically employ social issues on the other side as George W Bush administration did because the cultural turning point has now happened where that is now like the default position they could just whip up culture wars from the left to distract from what they're doing which is absolutely stripping every baseboard of any kind of wiring whatsoever this country we'll culture wars the only thing left because I mean we literally have a fucking pandemic that is causing everyone. Tens of millions of Americans have no income. And we've somehow turned it into a culture war issue. You are either someone who you know. Your main thing is like reopening everyone. Everyone's being alarmist everyone's being a fucking nanny state policy or you're you're on the side of science. Oh Yeah I believe in science not that not the science that would dictate that you know. Maybe most Americans need income because they will be nearly homeless. They'll fucking kill themselves so hopefully their kids get picked up in foster care not the math part of this but the Science. You Pat Yourself on the back because you get to. You're GONNA stay home this entire time and it's not a big deal to you that much anyway because you're already a fucking insect person all you like to do is get Grub from the permanent slave class and watch fucking the become an stance on Netflix. We've this issue. One of the most material issues are fucking lifetimes is now a cultural issue. It's the only thing left. Sorry it's the only terrain on which any political disagreement is allowed. Debate is allowed to take place on. Because that's just been decided and it has to get more tense because it has to make up. It has to take more emotional energy because conditions are going to keep getting worse so that means it has more high pitched to the has to get more heightened at every level to make up for all that misery that can't be expressed through any other issue. Any other question of economic distribution. And you know. I'm sure people who are who are skeptical of this idea that like. There's you know no difference between what the Democrats will be after after Joe Biden or after this fucking nightmare presidential campaign. I mean well they were already basically that to begin with but this be the final Khuda gras right and people. You know like we've talked about this will either you know naively or totally cynically. Point to like Joe Biden's website. It's the most progressive platform of any Democratic president ever. And it's like well. Yeah that's true. Any any subsequent Democratic president is technically be on paper more progressive than the last one. But I just I just believe been thinking about what lives forensic said the last time she was on the show where she's like. Well we need to talk about that but like the the issue is not that. It's the fact that all that will be true but nothing will change that That nothing everything nothing will change. It'll only get slightly shittier that's Felix. That's you're very very perceptive and like accurate sort of summation of not even pre cove crisis where everything was going. And I think whatever we emerge from you know after this is done or not officially done but we just all pretend to go back to normal regardless is what we'll find is basically things are the same but just slightly and then ever slightly more and more shittier and Shittier and like Adam Curtis says there's generation with nothing to lose well or people just it or it's no longer viable. I mean like the center doesn't hold just in terms of being able to provide A continuity of political legitimacy and just basic infrastructure costs this entire continent. Yeah I've been thinking about that and our and our friends Shawn's tweet about entering what historians call the cool cool zone of history. Yeah we're heading into the Cohen's study this this era of history. That kids like to learn about. I guess it's the it's the most interesting and you know that you were talking about this earlier. It's like regardless of the outcome of this election. It's just we're we're both sides are to the point where like half of the voting population is just not going to accept the results of a matter. What no way no matter what. Like trump wins. It's obviously going to be Russia again. It's going to be China. It's GONNA be us. It's going to be the Bernie Bros. Or whatever all those excuses that are already involved the votes going to be all weird because states are going to have different responses to the virus is going to be different levels of openness. Some states can have full mail in ballots. Some states are going to require you to go in vote and there's going to be the same shit. We saw the primary. So there's going. In addition to the fantasies both sides have there's going to be actual on the ground inconsistencies for the first time since two thousand that could be like pointed to. This is an actual illegitimate election. And also the turn out is probably GONNA be the lowest in America on the fifth time we may be under fifty percent you know because of just how shitty the choices are but also just the hangover from the pandemic as well but yeah like if Biden wins man. Then we're off to the races. Then we're going to have an armada of beautiful boaters that are fucking statehouse protests of like. Arby's technical guy rb for fifty cal guys every fucking weekend and then you know. We'll we'll see how that turns out and also there's going to be a need for state governors in states filled with those type of people who are going to be hating the president to have some sort of distant mechanism from their inability to deal with the problem which means they're going to heighten conflict with the president With the with the government the federal government from from the State House. And you know I mean I guess like you know we're we're we're going long on this episode like I guess just to wrap things up. It's just like this is all by design heading heading into the careening into the cool zone. It's like you know we could maybe taken an off ramp to the slightly boring zone but as we said over and over again. Mcdonald we've got food at home but man as you said over and over again like the pre requisite to that and it's not even a hard one in theory is just offering an actual solution or something different a change like some sort of like basic help to people are offering like just anything that would make people's lives like easier less stressful less miserable more free time more money like just any alternative like what everyone has just decided is an immutable fact of life. Which is the markets and the people in control of them. And if we've put a -cluded or just precluded like any any possible alternative within our political system then the you know what we're going to end up with is the cool zone and two old man challenge each other to push ups contest. Let's hope we'll sit down and content and you know and again. Well we're all dealing with you know as Felix mentioned is like this is the death of the American Empire. It's it's playing out on a global stage. I mean like we're going to be the last people to admit it but everyone else is watching this shit right now like you said the wealthiest most powerful country in human history is just basically just you know shitting its insides right out right now because it can't do anything dealing no ability to do anything well on that note you'll leave you but at least. I'm still hoping for CGI Colossus Joe Hologram. Just we've come on just sort of like just running through every major American city pushing over buildings dancing doing doing doing dabbing but just like a giant a giant fucking like Leviathan Joe Biden Hologram everywhere. You wake up in the morning and like with with the sun you see Biden standing next to it no matter where you are in the country. I know we're going super long. Just have to say one thing that I think is insanely funny that this Liz Smith article about how Biden can win. The war of the screens came one day after the president did what was it. Like a hundred and thirty tweets in our tweet are retweets. Just going off on some wild stuff like he he. He is borne poster. And it. You can't you can't you can't invent that. Nfo because you can't you can't fake the real. You cannot fake the real. All I know is going to be just spectacle than give me some God damn spectacle. I want to three hundred foot. Tall Biden men trump's debating like the actual trump ended up pervading and then they are projected to be the size of those Buddhism Ghanistan in every town square in America. Let's give me something and the job Joe Biden if you're listening squad up with Felix you know. Yeah yeah maybe you're good. I don't know what character do you think. Joe Biden play just real. He would play We can't take jet my character I think Joe should play Yeah probably omen because Oh man is a character that can teleport all over the map and throw shadows everywhere reminds you of how joke clips in real life. He's always teleporting to a memory in nineteen fifty four. Well showing up places Joe Biden if you WANNA be the new bad boy of digital media disruption Go on Chapo. Fema and just watch him frank the tank videos with the boys. I would love to see Joe talk about the two average guys all right Matt Felix So next time and Dear listener courage you once again. Please look in the show. Information part of this episode and check out those websites. Stephen dancing singer shared with us. Avowed what you can do to support him currently under house arrest and also the people of Ecuador in their case against Chevron so Please look into those the case and do what you can to support Our boy on house arrest right now so until next time guys bye bye.
021521 Hour 2
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I think a lot of people don't ever know you never know that they were twins never heard that they have the same birthday as well Probably one of the least celebrated days. I'm not even sure why today to be honest with you. Yeah i don't know. I mean to me personally. Obviously pales in comparison to veterans day. Memorial day those are super important days. Yeah saint patrick's day. It's absolutely thank you. That's one of our patriotic holiday. Patrick's day guy standup got. Today's national singles awareness day which happens every february fifteenth and. I think it's just sort of you know like farmers. Yeah because it's the day. It's always the day after valentine's day and I'm fine. I don't have any problem. I like valentine's day. I've always liked valentine's day. I think it's awesome Whether you're single or not. But yesterday like the tweets were just so dark and depressing interest in depressing also upset. Why are you upset. Enjoy it but alexis revealed something. Did you do did you valentine Yeah last minute surprise. Valentine valentine yeah guy showed up or what yeah. Text me in the morning. And he's like. Hey he was like i can g Can do you want to be my valentine. And that's what we'll do. I have to do anything. What does that entail details to this. You're going to get in about thirty. Minutes apologised. Jump the gun. That one well actually. Tj it's funny that you were speaking just now because tj new podcast is out today at ten am. Eleven am eleven tj. Jodie's house if you downloaded our free app on apple or android you got to hear it over the weekend because it's posted live right now. If you download our app so you can go check it out. I listened to it on friday afternoon very good. It's player funding rave reviews. Rachel said i was able to listen to. Tj's new podcast. Can we please do this two times a week. I need more. Joey said love you guys. Just listen to tj and jodie's house awesome so it's going to play on our app at ten am today and then at eleven am eastern. It'll be posted everywhere spotify tunes. Google podcasts are ase. Tj dot com. If you wanna download the podcast my wife already. Out of control wanting Mirror lights around the mirror in the bathroom. Like a like a dressing room celebrity mariah carey. All a bit of a diva are on the door. Thirty minutes with the first thirty minutes and it was just like my mouth was agape it was like. Oh my gosh. This is what people have been asking for and they finally got so. It's really good. You can go check it out today. Also really quickly tested brown aka gorilla glue girl She's back in louisiana. Her hair is fine now. She has launched her own website. Texaco merch dot com. You can pre-order all of the merch items that she has for sale And it's hot item. She was also spotted walking around her hometown in her own. Merch and some good news you know. She raised money through go fund me about her hair over twenty thousand dollars. She's donating it all to a nonprofit that helps with i think surgeries for youth and things like that. I'm not totally sure but okay. You know all that money that was raised. He's not keeping herself herself donating school. I think it's just a great. I love the story so all those things are now our own merch. This is remember tessa. That comes out in about five years. Pick one of the get out of the year in wrap-ups way. Yeah i remember Great idea There is one certain way. An easy way that you and your significant other could be beyond your wealthiest imagination wealthy beyond your imagination. This one thing what would it be. We'll find out next. This is the ason. Tj show your small to mid sized business ready for the inevitable. rebound voice. Hunter dot com specializes in providing top level voice. Talent for all your video marketing learning advertising needs. There's no better time than right now. To focus on increasing your customer base and corporate internal audio needs boy center dot. Com is a voiceover service with the world's best voice actors and actresses call center dot com at seven zero four six four eight ninety eight hundred or visit us on the web at boyce hunter dot com. It's another ace and tj show personality profile. Riggins the guy that got me pregnant not around. This is the act tj show. You like that anyway right man so they do messing with people on. I apologize even though. I had nothing to do with that behalf. The professionals who run the company. I think you look. I was having a discussion with my daughter the other day or to some southerners my daughter in She is She's almost finished with her junior year in college. Tinley has a A couple of months left and she'll be finished with her junior year making her next year to be a senior her senior. So i was saying you know the best possible thing you can do. When you're starting to find a career is to be able to find something that you enjoy doing that you can make make a have an an income to provide for yourself your family or whatever When people turn their hobbies into businesses is to me that is the the american story. The story of anybody can make anything of themselves. In the united states of america through the free enterprise capitalist system the my pillow guys of prime example. He's a crack addict had lost everything. He had nothing to his name and he started working on developing a pillow. And who would have thought that one pillow would make him a multi multimillionaire. What seemed like overnight. You know so to find something that you're very good at that. Most people may not think you could get paid to do and and swing that into a career. It just so happened that You know i was blessed to be able to take my love of music and entertaining and the things like like that. That always made me seem like i was less studious than my classmates. That would hold me back for making it in the real world so to speak. I just happened to get blessed enough to be in. You know a position at a time. When i was young to be able to move into radio being what i wanted to but if i could get one of these jobs though where you got paid to sit in review. Tv shows all day. I wouldn't jump at that. If i could just sit on the couch and watch. Tv all day. And tell them what i thought about the tv shows. That would be the thing to do if i get paid for that. We'd be living on easy street if my wife got paid for rolling her eyes. Yeah at the things that i say or do or checking a thermostat if she made fifteen bucks every time she checked the thermostat. How much money would we have tons. That'd be more than just a regular side hustle. I can tell you that every time. She answers the phone when she doesn't know who it is if she got paid a hundred bucks every time she did that. And we'd be living in bahamas somewhere. Does she answered. She doesn't recognize the number. Yes every time every time you do that y you answer a pops up from so. I'm just going to answer so engineers. I think it might be the number from the school. i don't recognize. Call it about my son. And i'm the other way i won't answer it if i see who it is. Rally answer it. If i don't know who it is. But if i see that i do know i want so ace if your new bride abandoned got paid. Every time she did something would be rich every time she out of the dog for being annoying. Okay dog makes a lot of its allow. stop be rich or if she every time She told you how to drive or reach for the steering something. You shouldn't read you. The statement commented on my driving. Yes okay comments would include. We'll get there eventually. She she and my wife can go into business partners on that. Yeah hey it's twenty five in the neighborhood. And i know grandpa like kids can jump out from behind cars and stuff i i know. I know it's be safe and get there tomorrow. Why she in such a hurry. I don't know you're in. You're in the neighborhood. it's one hundred yards. She just signed. life's lottery. She ought to lay back and enjoy the ride. Don't i know it. I mean come on. Don't i know it. And i'm so easy to live with. Don't so what do you got. Here's the statement. If my significant other got paid to blank we'd be rich if my significant other got paid to blank. We'd be rich. One triple eight. Forty one forty-one as tj or dms. When you got on this lets go. This is the it. Tj show more next a lot of radio family members have been asking how they can support grandkids. Well we have a special way. You can sport grandkids all throughout the year. It's and tj's grandkids. Five hundred at tj dot com. A special five hundred radio family members will donate monthly and within their means the grandkids. Five hundred members will give five hundred dollars per year and be the grandkids. Five hundred. Join today and get more information at ace. Tj dot com or on the tj app. This is the as at tj show. Alexa siri google voice. Ready on all devices. Just say play. Act jay can hear our shows live or on demand. Stay connected funny on the acing tj app available at i tunes in google. Play all right so Fill in the blank. If my significant other got paid to lank we'd be rich. I one this one's on me telling off on herself. If i got paid from leaning over and checking the speed limits speak and checking the speed ometer silently and hitting my invisible brake pedal while he's driving. I'd be rich hall. i lean over. He's speeding then. Hit the invisible brake pedal. How annoying I think this one is my favorite. If my if my significant other got paid to poop everytime we're in a hurry or ready to leave we'd be rich. it never fails. We're already then. I hear oh get in the car. I got drives me insane. That's about a thirty minute. Wait that has come up in several different from women saying about their significant other. Like one lady here said If my i've got paid for every thirty minutes he spends pooping that's come up three or four different times. Yuck every time we go on a road trip in at the beginning of of the trip my husband says i should be a truck driver and at the end of the trip. He says being a truck driver seems awful. They could keep that. She said every time. It's been doing it. Just annoying one leave here said to. My husband got paid to watch educational slash history videos out his phone than we'd be rich least. He can do that by himself. Unlike this one christina says if he got paid per word when he tells a story that tells long store she's goodridge wrapping up long stories by the work of a million times. Benjamin said if she got paid every every she got paid every time she misplaced her phone. We'd have millions. Yeah if my wife got paid every time. She told us she was about to go put on her pajamas. Oh yeah that's be dependent on how much she got paid each time. We can make a hundred bucks. A night initially put downs. Yeah yeah here in a minute. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go take a bath. Put on my pajamas. And then i guess i'll come down and cook dinner all right. Well look i'm about to go put on my pajamas. I'll be down in a minute. Okay go. She announces go on how many times. Tj do you think a night that she mentioned very three. Yeah it's kind of like your sneezes. ace ace sneezes. he never just needs once. It's always followed by at least three more in you. Know in secession. Hers is an average of three but if somebody distracts her phone rings or something and then they'll get another one added to that now off phone. I'm going to go change my get one either at least two more government every night this guy. Tj show okay. We knew alexis was having one date over the weekend. We had no idea that it was going to scratch into ballantine's day surprise. We're going to get all the details on that coming up soon. tj coming. Today's share funny. Podcast recorded live starting at nine eastern on the act but livestream at ace tj dot com and radio. There are a few things that are pretty Big in the trending world of the news today. That are of an adult nature. So we're gonna just kinda give those a little shove into the share. Funny portion of our company today with the Was it called the share. Funny brady oh button network. Yep yeah push it into the share. Funny on the radio button network. We knew because she was Alexis was forthcoming with information about Having a dat. Friday where they were going to hang out and not hang out in a sexual sense but hang out in a pow around since may wanna pal around come on okay so first of all. How did the friday thing go you and your suitor. It was good. I i realized that. I have not stop it. I haven't hung around with people outside of you guys in a long time so actually. I'm pretty awkward when it comes to hanging out with other people. They're weird or on weird. But i just found myself. We were watching Cobra kai i've never watched it and he was like. Oh let's watch it. I got there. He had already ordered. Pizza was great But i was like how i am at home. I say things out loud. I talk about the show. And so i was doing that without realizing and he'd be like what i'm like. Oh nothing. I'm just talking about them. Sorry being weird so spun. He has a puppy so that was cool puppy so has puppy breath in its cue See i was fun but you felt awkward because you're not used to being around regular people anymore. You're now a radio person and we're the only man you're ever around really actually. That's exactly that's exactly. How good what. What time did you get there. I got there around six day. I left like at eleven. Oh okay yeah. I know right. Did you find yourself being more cynical to everything. Like did he say things and you go. Why don't you say it that way to yourself were you. Did you find yourself being critical of little things and thinking about how that could be funny. No not really. You're not too far gone wanting to clear eleven at night or eleven the next morning at night. Okay chuck. yeah what was. The other thing is like having fun. And he's really sweet and very nice. But i was like i just wanna be in my pajamas like old. You'd already established that. He's very handsome. Yeah his very cute. But then what else did you find out about him that you didn't know that he does Then i remember what show is day. Yeah he was a solution every day. Probably if he's not job success. He listens on his way to work in the mornings And i know he gets to work at seven but he will go from a job to another job sudden between sometimes he'll listen but yeah he was saying. How long has it been out with a guy or interested in a guy that didn't have the word release after the word work. Stop bench marks flu. it's nice. I just He it's only the second time we've hung out. I've known him for a long time. So yeah so on sunday or yesterday he takes me in the morning. He said hey. Do you wanna be my valentine up. Of course i'm the worst when it comes to stuff like that guy. And i said well what do i need to do. I need to do something. I don't watch i don't want because he's he was like i'm gonna come to your house because he was like you know. What are you doing today. And he's gonna come to your house anyways even if it's for a couple of seconds and i was like okay and i felt bad because i'm like i don't want you to go out of your way valentine's day like you don't have to go and buy me anything. I know things are gonna be sold out like you know have to do that. And he's gonna do it anyway so just deal with and i was like okay so he came over and he got me an orchid which i love orchids so that was nice and then a whole box of types of candy lifesaver gumy's and airheads and chocolate's great. What are you kidding me. Yeah it was really nice one. What are you talking about. Why are you being so down in the dining down in the dumps at all. What do you mean. She's more down in the dumps awkward. She acts how i feel like. I i used to be smoothing. i'm not. I mean that's great. Yeah so. And i gave them something back in return. Yes those chocolate where we were going off. Wouldn't have been specific way better than i thought it was good. It was just that she needs practice. Era so weird. I don't know that's great. And i have more great news to share in less than ten minutes and now trending there's more tj.
Gorilla Glue Update
"Pay is carla farrell from the c. Probably wanna show podcast. And i'm so happy to be here on the iheart podcast network being sponsored by. At and t we both know firsthand that listening and being heard can lead to change. At knows all about this too. They started listening to their customers. Who spoke out that they weren't getting a fair deal now. They're giving every customer both new and existing the same great deals so listen up and learn more about getting a great smartphone deal at att dot com slash deals restrictions. Apply so guys. i'm rishaad allowed millions and we'll the host of the ernie legia podcasts. Where we break down business models and examined Transient finance we talked to the legends of business sports and entertainment about how they got their start and most importantly how they make their money. Earner alesia is a college business class mitzvah pop culture. The podcast is available. Now listen to earn your leisure on. Iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or whatever you listen to five against all right. Here's an update on tessa. Brown remember texaco brown. She's the woman who put gorilla glue. Yes gorilla glue and her hair to slick it down. Because she didn't have any more of her spray that she normally uses. He's helped now while she finally cut off her pony tail but her scalp keeps hardening. And so here's some good news in this story. She's meeting with a beverly hills. Doctor who says he can remove the rest of the gorilla. Glue off her hair Tesco spoke to tmz about her haters saying she put her ordeal on social media to cash out and to chase clout take a listen and have some people. They're saying. Oh well. She did this. Because i would never put this on my head. Oh well let's see. I'm going to follow was i never. I put it on social media to get help that that was that was the hardest thing for one second up the next morning and that many people have looked the never never thought it was gonna get. This thought well that i mean she wanted to. She wanted to help. People don't do this at home. Guy yeah you want to help people who wanted to get help while she said in that particular moment in that interview which was with. Tmz that she wanted to get help. She wanted gestures and people to see you know. Maybe this could work then can work. She was desperate. Of course. i'm okay with her doing this video. I don't believe she did it. Fall attention that no. You can't because she could not have. Nobody gonna put myself out there like they're trying to get no follows. I believe young sister you know and she looked in pain. But like i said you know you ain't got to put his head to tail and by the tried it house you know. I wanna find something to do permanently to my mustache when i got to worry about it. No more but it won't be in home depot. Does i won't go down there to do to do that. 'cause they're not excel as they have a product called gorilla snot. Yes this product. Yeah that's yeah doesn't our yes. Yes i don't want to buy. Nothing was not in the title. I'm sorry i don't want that have really nice. Well i don't wanna buy glue in the tide. Yeah coming up in thirty four minutes after the hour. Quick round of ask the show right. After this you're listening to harvey morning show raw. Food is out there. I'm unwrapping madonna steak egg and cheese bagel. Who look at this steak and juice running down the side. A little bit on rapper. Here and then. A fluffy egg and rail cheese folded oversaw looking. Just so good Grilled onions unabomber bego. Two thumbs up from mcdonnell steak egg and cheese bagel for breakfast. Love it more participating. Mcdonald's lancaster south carolina is in the middle of not much growing up nearby. I knew it as the home town hall. Black man named jim dunkin who became a super bowl hero of white. Now my new podcast return man. I'll discover that his death still makes no sense at off. The story was that my brother went into the police station. A gun off a police officer in shot himself in the head. Most people don't believe that for the past three years at the rocco herald. I've looked back at a story that's time than ever. Have you got some time to talk. Above rates another state of the person and tell scared to death to say. Listen to return man on the iheartradio apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast if you took away the date and time could you imagine that happening today. Yes you can.
Unlocked: Will Talks to Steven Donziger About Taking on Chevron
"All right hey everybody you may remember a while back. I did a bonus interview with the lawyer. Steven don zinger. About the circumstances that led to his quite lengthy house arrest And is ongoing. You say persecution by a law firm. Prosecuting him And their relationship with the very people that he won a lawsuit against so is trials coming up and decided that too. We should check in again with stephen singer. So i'm joined again once again by the lawyer. Steven don zinger stephen. How's it going good. Thanks for having me. Well it's good to be here all right. So maybe for the people who haven't listened to the first episode or are unaware of story Could you give you give our listeners. Just like a brief background regarding your case and the rather extraordinary way in which you've been confined to your home for like well over a year and a half now. Sure so you know it's a it's a twenty seven year story but i'm going to sort of reduce it's about a minute I'm a lawyer live new york White when i got outta law school in the early nineties i went down to ecuador lawyers and investigators to to look at the what really was called the world's worst or related catastrophe and it involves chevron and its predecessor company texaco over a period of twenty five or so years in the ecuadorian amazon. They deliberately dumped. Billions of gallons of cancer causing oil waste onto indigenous incestual lands in about a fifteen hundred square mile area. Komo racked the region. Completely poison the water. The fresh water sources the rivers the streams the groundwater and overtime hundreds thousands of and even thousands of people who have died of cancer or been stricken with oil related diseases. Indigenous cultures have been decimated. And it's really. The world's worst oil related catastrophe was done as a matter of planning and engineering wasn't an accident. chevron decided to just dump the stuff rather than pay for proper disposal. I got involved sued chevron texaco chevron in new york in the early nineties they insisted the trial be held in. Ecuador was moved to ecuador in the early two. Thousands chevron accepted jurisdiction there. The trial took eight years. We won there were massive. Luminous scientific evidence proving their guilt or culpability. Sixty four thousand sampler results one hundred expert reports As we were about to win they sued me in new york as retaliation claiming that i had bribed a judge ecuador in their evidence. I did not private judge inequity just to be very clear about that. Their evidence so called evidence was paid a witness. Two million dollars to come up from ecuador. They coached him for fifty three days. He then went into this courtroom in new york in the same court or we originally one of the trial will be held And he testified that he was in a meeting with me in ecuador. Why approved this so-called bribed and it never happened. there's no crop rating evidence. The witness ended up admitting that he had lied recant. His testimony in a later proceeding on the basis of that jury. A judge. Lewis kaplan is a federal judge in new york. Found that i had obtained the ecuadoran judge of be a fraud. In the meantime twenty nine ele- judges and roared candidate have validated the judgment. Completely reject captains findings. This is really a battle between corporate power indigenous rights being expressed through the means of the judicial system right now and because we had so much success in holding chevron accountable chevron went back to judge cap claimed by owed the money for their court costs. They demanded to see my computer and cell. Phone to figure out where my celts were in. That had all the confidence permission becase when i appeal that request. Judge kaplan charging with criminal contempt of court and had me locked up. This was on august six thousand nineteen about five hundred seventy five days ago. My criminal contempt charges a misdemeanor. Longest sentence ever given a lawyer. Who's been convicted of. This is ninety days of home confinement. I've been in home confinement now now. This is an extraordinary part of this. I mean you said like longest penalty ever given to a lawyer. Who's been convicted of misdemeanor. Condemned is ninety days. You've not been convicted of misdemeanor contempt. And you'll have been confined in your house under house arrest for well over five hundred days now. Yeah i'm i've been confined six times longer out trial six times longer than the log sets ever imposing a lawyer. Who's been convicted of these charges. So you know in my view. This punishment i mean in to understand what's happening when you're trying criminal contempt. You're charged by the judge not by the regular prosecutor with the judge is obligated to go to the prosecutor. Do the case to prosecute in this case. The prosecutor refused prosecute. Me refused the charges. So judge kaplan who charged me appointed a private offer to prosecute me in the name of the government while hiding the fact the law firm had shamron is a client chevron being the company that had this big judgement against so essentially. I'm the first example of ever. Us history where the government in this case. Judge kaplan is given big oil the power to prosecute its his critics. And that's what's happening to me. It's a conflicted case and it really in. My view needs to be thrown out the fact that the only lawyer in history on a misdemeanor ever held for even a day. Pretrial makes it all the more shocking. I mean yeah this. this is what you know. This is how i found out about your case. And this is what led me to be so interested in it. Is i mean like the the terrifying idea of of a lawyer or any private citizen being prosecuted by a private law firm on behalf of the state and not just any private law firm firm that it has directly an invested interest in in a client that you won a fair a fairly adjudicated legal settlement against just like it. It is very clear. What's happening here. Which is that like a chevron a private corporation is using the state and our legal system to not just punish you personally but to send a message to anyone who would dare win a lawsuit against them as exactly right and fundamentally. This is about an attack on the people of ecuador on the judge. And they're doing it through me and it also as you point out is about sending a larger symbolic message of intimidation To all human rights activists all human rights lawyers and people were going to hold these big fossil fuel companies accountable for their environmental destruction. Mess with this case is about like it's being expressed through these very personal attacks me. I have a wife and a fourteen year. Old son were hurting. I mean we're we're in. We live in new york city in a relatively small apartment. We've been here now for almost two years trying to figure this out. I can't get a trial because a kobe and other reasons of there's no really no trials happening in new york and they won't let me out you know and charon loves this. I mean have been convicted of a crime at. I don't have a to have an ankle bracelet and it's been eighteen. Eighteen months now unable to travel unable to walk out of my apartment at suits them fine right. Because they don't want me working on the case and holding them accountable. I mean like you know as more and more people are aware of this when people find out about your your case there are. You have attracted the attention and support of a lot of the really. The luminous figures in the legal community like of lawyers judges people in in international law who have signed petitions and statements attesting to the truly extraordinary miscarriage of justice. That you're being subjected to hear. I mean it's just as this goes on. I mean like how. How do you judge kaplan and the people prosecuting you continue to justify this or account i mean ordered is just simply that they don't have to because nobody not enough people notice it or they're not being subjected to the pressure from any any quarter outside like certain parts of the legal community no matter how sort of august and Impressive the names are well. It's a great question. You know it just befuddles me that they can get away with it There is a lot there are a lot of people have spoken out. No great lawyers mardi garbis. Rick friedman You know somebody. Great human rights lawyers in our country of amnesty international ladders. And you know a lot of environmental groups. These two judges who are after me or conflicted. One is a former tobacco. Voyeur remember the federalist society to its chevron is a major donor. They're working together. Those judge charged me appointed the judge. Who's presiding. she locked me up. Judge preska The prosecutor comes from chevron law are all the off financial ties to chevron i mean chevron is in effect prosecuting and i think for a lot of people you know it's hard there's no framework even understand this in the united states of america. You just talk. What and we need more people to speak out. I mean these judges have lifetime porpoises. Virtually no accountability No-one who tried to stop them. You know the appellate judges have not tried to stop. Oh just let the trial happened. If you lose you can appeal it. I mean that's like another two years while i'm in house arrest so it's a serious situation. I will tell you you know. I think this is a grievous human rights violation on american soil. In the middle of manhattan. Where i live A mile from the new york times. They have not covered this. I have gotten coverage from independent media like you guys and you know the intercept the nation and others. Chris hedges wrote a great story. But you know the main you know the large media outlets completely ignored. The stories chevron's advertising dollars. They're all over the place. And i think you know it's a real game for chevron to try to contain the story such that most people don't find out about it and the judge didn't have a free path. Tried to get away with you. Know we're fighting artisan. Can you know if i was in turkey or saudi arabia or russia. I think it'd be a lot of members of the. Us congress speaking out my treatments like you know they're condemning dapa the gentleman who navan these navalny appropriately in other. That's not how you treat people But you know look. My situation is happening right here and they don't speak out. I think another element here. Is it like if this is happening to you because you were a dissident against the us state directly. I think that's easier for them to talk about like in terms of the mainstream media discussing the you know the government like directly violating or oppressing political speech or just like you know punishing someone for winning a lawsuit essentially but the fact that like. It's not just the government doing it to you. It is the it is a private corporation like you said it is chevron prosecuting you with the authority of the us state behind them. It like i said like it opens up all kinds of questions about like the nature of our government and the media as it relates to these giant multinational corporations. That i think is very difficult for them to talk about it but like they don't know what to make of it or they don't want to follow up on the implications of what this really what this really means. I think you're right. I will say those of us who follow comings and goings in america. Cb increasing corporate power as permeating various aspects of our society. Over the last twenty. Thirty years i can tell you in this case. It's a new frontier like this never happened. This is a new step forward for the consolidation of fossil fuel corporate power in america to be able to have for chevron to have it's private law firm prosecute the guy the lawyer who won the biggest judgment ever against chevron lock him up in his own when no lawyers ever been locked up in his home before for this supposed charge which i dispute completely. That really ought to scare everybody because it really is a playbook that the industry fossil fuel industry is going to keep trying to use as long as they can get away with. And i i would venture a guess that it's not just the fossil fuel industry following this closely. I think it's every major industry looks like to use our courts to a hold them to account or provide any level of redress for people who have been victimized by their policy which is basically putting profit over human life. That's exactly right. And you know chevron for example will pay the nine point five billion dollars in us. The people of ecuador indicates case that we want. It's been ten years. Gay people are dying in ecuador because chevron won't pay the judgment gets chevron has lobbyists right now capitol hill trying to preserve the forty billion dollar public subsidies for the fossil fuel industry that the biden administration thinking of getting rid of you know they're drifters. They went down to ecuador and sucked out prophets and the amazon and left behind all the pollution for the local the vulnerable local communities suffer. You know they're doing the same here they they live off taxpayer subsidies and they're basically ecuador what they did is they. They lost the case and rather than pay. They're like we're leaving. Sold their assets. Like ecuador's left with the cleanup tab. The meantime they go after me. Because i have helped hold them accountable by representing mu- indigenous groups down there in and they locked me up. You know so it too much power and like if judges don't stop this. Stop this kind of behavior. This misconduct this abuse of the system. We are going to be living in a very dark place soon. Already are to some extent but people need to wake up and really look at this. And also if i can say i mean we're signing up people we have twenty five thousand people now in our campaign and if people can help please go to. My website is called don's occurred defense dot com. Do r. d. e. f. e. s. c. danziger defense dot com. You can make a donation the cost to deal with this significant deal with lawyers expenses and that kind of stuff for the most lawyers were very low cost on my team but also even if you can't give please sign up for the campaign. We put out a newsletter every couple of weeks explaining what's happening asking people to take various actions like right now Amnesty international were ladder to Merrick garland the new ag neutron general asking him to review the case and take it back from chevrons. Private law firm could take back into the department of justice. So we can deal with professional. Prosecutors not conflicted private prosecutors or a private prosecutor is so bone chilling to think about. I mean even even if it's an unjust prosecution the idea that you should be prosecuted by a representative of the us state. The justice department accountable to voters theoretically. That's exactly right. And and i will add this. Judge kaplan in the court created some sort of tax payer fund to pay these private prosecutors their billing taxpayers three them building each billing three hundred dollars an hour in so far. This is just what we know. They have been paid by taxpayers. Four hundred sixty. Four thousand dollars to prosecute a misdemeanor. When the united states attorney's office refused to take the case. You know so again. After right like i mean whatever i i just think it's so hard to even figure out if you know i'm not an expert. Blake someone who has like a rudimentary understanding about how our legal system is supposed to work. If the prosecutor declined to prosecute a case. I mean like why shouldn't it end. They're if they're saying. Hey we passed nothing. How did this get the thing with the judge. It's it's this bizarre and rather open collusion between this judge and chevron and their law firm. That's exactly right it's a chevron prosecution facilitated by a judge it's inappropriate. It's in my view unethical to conflict of interest. It's unconstitutional in my view. And it's illegal under international law and it's happening in new york so you know yeah and ultimately i have great hope that i will get through this and some judge or some appellate court somewhere will stop this or at least reverse it. You know. i mean you're trying to put me in jail. I mean they already have put you in jail innocence. Put me in jail on my home. And they're going to try to put me in jail jail without a jury and this is our denying the ger. There's no jury trial for this. So it'll just be what it'll be like up to the judge's discretion about up to the judge to decide if the prosecutor is that they appointed themselves met the standard for Whether you're guilt or innocence misdemeanor verge. Yeah but think about this. The judge is locked up. Five hundred seventy five days now. Is the judge deciding whether i'm guilty or innocent underlying charge. I mean the word kafka gets thrown around a lot. But man. Jesus stephen i mean the other thing like this. The the absurdity of this is the terms of your your house arrest and confinement. You have not been convicted of this. You're awaiting trial on a misdemeanor and you have an ankle bracelet. You have an ankle monitor on like like how does that. How does that happen like there. Are people certainly getting charged with murderer. Who get to walk around free before their trial. We i know. I mean listen. The four cops would kill. George floyd are all free right now. Yeah i'm locked up. And i what i did wrong. Quote unquote was win. A big pollution judgment against shemer. And it's obvious why this is happening. S chevron has has has you know has has bet the will of a certain element of the federal judiciary to its wishes and we're supposed to have an independent judiciary to check that kind of power instead that chevron has bet that too it's well and it's just it's really controlling it and that's the world we live in right now with this case and it's really not right. It's frightening and it. You know if it were happening in any other country entire. Us congress in passing a resolution condemning. So i mean you're still awaiting trial but like is there a trial dates at is is there. Is there something coming up. That like is like something's going to happen. That'll like maybe just a break in this limbo that your existing in right now so a couple of things. There's two important dates On march tenth which is just a few days from now I have an argument before the appellate court to get off home detention and anyone can dial in and listen and we're urging people to listen and to bear with us. You can go to this website that we set up for this purpose is called free. Don's eager dot org free don's Deal nci g. e. r. dot org. We'll put the phone number on there once. We get it a couple of days before the argument to ten am eastern on the tenth. Which i believe is next wednesday so people should just mark that dan. Dial it and yeah. Like i just like if i can make an appeal here. I mean like the fact that you can dial in and listen to listen to this. This this hearing. I think is very important. I think the more people do this the better. Because i think this is basically being allowed to happen to you because not enough people know about it and i think like just like the more exposure that the absolute absurdity of. What's what's what's happened to you here. I think more people know about it. I think that is Can only help your defense and can only hinder The the the the open corruption and oppression of you that is being carried out by a private law firm on behalf of the government and by the way the law. Firm's name is seward and kissel s. e. w. a. r. d. a. Kiss last week. Three hundred law students from fifty two different law schools in america wrote. They're managing partner a letter saying they will never work that firm. There's a boycott of the suit and kissel firm by law students to protest. What they say is an unethical prosecution of me. So there's a real people who are really upset about this in the soudan kissel off a significant ties to the oil. Gas industry chevrons Worked for a company called oaktree capital as to executives chevrons board of directors. It's just unbelievable. And when judge kaplan pointed this law firm you know first of all when the case was rejected. It should have dropped. He wanted point private lawyer to prosecute me. There's hundreds of disinterested a neutral former federal prosecutors. You could have appointed. Why did he point the one firm. It has close in deep financial ties to chevron the oil and gas industry because he wanted to ensure that i would that they would do what he wanted to try to crush me as so-called punishment for having the temerity to take on chevron successfully on behalf of indigenous peoples so this is a closed loop in in for people like judge kaplan to t to go take extrordinary. Step i mean like you think. Like a invader view of the world or their view of the law. What you did to chevron by bringing this case in the first place much let alone winning it it just amounts to basically extorting a private company is i think. Basically that how he looks like people who seek You know environment take environmental cases against large corporations that it just basically it cd. It's sort of pseudo criminal in the first place the question or even like you know even bring up the fact that like maybe they have some sort of monetary responsibility to the thousands of people who have been stricken with cancer as a direct result of their actions. I think in stat. I think he just hates lawyers. Who take on the cause of human rights and cause of environmental justice. He's a he was a former tobacco industry lawyer you work for brown and williamson for many years and he just thinks like the corporate form is like the best expression of like an economic system in american greatness really scary. He hated me from day. One i can tell He never let me present evidence in my in the underlying racketeering case he let chevra chevron file against me. He wouldn't give me a jury would let me testify on direct He kept the names of witnesses secret from me. There were massive due process violations due out in his court and the irony is he concluded. That inequitable there. Were you know the somehow. The trial court didn't function properly core. That actually was the case and it was not network mentioned this yet. Been twenty seven different. Appellate judges and ecuadoran candidate folded validity. The ecuador judge judge. Kaplan's the only one who said it wasn't ballot and he wouldn't even look at the evidence relied on by the ecuador court to find it in a defined against chevron and the whole we talked about this in the first time he came on like their whole effort to get the trial in ecuador in the first place was something they thought would be very much to their benefit. They did until until we organized a team of great ecuadorian lawyers who mitigated the case and presented the evidence in one as they should have the evidence against some just overwhelming. I mean they admit it. They admitted this is what they did. They claim it didn't hurt. Anybody admit they. Dump massive amounts of toxic waste into rivers and streams that indigenous peoples will rely for their drinking water in many of died including young children. Who came here. I mean bathes died of leukemia. Down there so you know they just went down there and cut. I mean they took out all the prophets socialized the cost and fled the country. Then they come up here and act like you know they can avail themselves are legal system to attack those who held them accountable It's it's really again. It's unprecedented and it's something. People need to pay attention to. Obviously you mentioned the on the march tenth on hearing about your confinement but what was what was the second important date. That's coming up for you. S the trial may tenth represented by kuby mardi garba various lawyers who are working to help me pro bono. They're really good lawyers and they're gonna be going toe to toe with his private chevron processed in court and the court you know potentially it depends on. Kobe can also listen. It in that trial could take several days. I'll be testifying and we plan in that trial to tell to show the truth of what happened. Which is that. I did nothing wrong. I was charged criminally as way to silence me i- thousands of lawyers in america. Did exactly what. I did to appeal a potentially unlawful discovery ordered. No one was ever charged with criminal. Contempt lock me. So obviously this is. I think a selective malicious prosecution And there will be each. I'll will be a jury conclusion. If judge esca stays on the case the appointed by capitalism member federal decides. She'll definitely find me guilty but let people be their own judges of bear witness. Listen to be evidence. Because i believe at least bit guilty but you know if i had a jury. This would not be happening. There's a reason giving me a jerk. Because they engineer the result might well. I mean stephen. I just to close things out here. I mean like. I've been thinking about you ever since you know i i talked to you. I've been trying to promote your case. Because i just think like i think just people more people need to know about this because i think the more knew about it the harder it would be for these people to do what they're doing and i'm not saying like i mean. They would probably still be doing what they're doing. But could we get like you said. Like this is in manhattan. Could be get the new york times or like any of the papers of record just to cover this trial. Just like just even mention what's going on here. It would seem to be like a pretty compelling story from a news angle. It's an incredible story. I mean you know a harvard law grad. I was in the saint class. President obama. And i'm like up for year and a half in my home after winning the biggest environmental case ever. Why is that not being covered. Put a new york times. I i'm astounded and you know look people need to engage go to the website sign up is there's gonna be there's one group i think sunrise is organizing an event at the courthouse. A march head To express their disdain. They're upset of what's happening to make. And there's a lot of that can be taken Again go to free a dot or an or doniger defense dot com and just get engaged because we need as many people as possible to to speak out about this even if you're not around like if you live wherever not new york You can call into these proceedings and you can send emails and stuff and we'll tell you how to do it to really raise your voices In defense of me and my family and the people of ecuador who with whom i've worked for nail twenty seven years. Who really are tenacious. Determined sophisticated courageous people who united indigenous peoples in rural farming communities and took one of the world's most powerful corporations and want you know so this needs to be recognized. I want to say this. Now he's gonna say like following your case like i've always been been very impressed with a man like it obviously with the the absurdity in horror. What's happened to you is one thing. But you've always been very clear that like this. This is about this is about ecuador this is about the victim of what of chevron basically doing a noble level environmental disaster on purpose in their country like the. These are the people who are who are being oppressed by this the corporate this this collusion of corporate and government power like this is the real violence and it's directed at and they're and they're attacking attacking people back. I'm just. I'm like road. Kill between because i'm here but i mean. The people of ecuador indigenous leaders in the tree leaders are amazing and i have been privileged. Represent them all these years and they won the case me be very clear chevron the communities in ecuador had one in these attacks are happening because our side the ecuadorian leaders. One astorg judgments. They're attacking their lawyer. That simple you know. This is not happening because they did something wrong or something went amiss. This is happening because they did something right in everything worked out. so that's why we need to protect. Yeah judge right on hacking you is because like you said this is. This is the message that they're sending to every other lawyer in the country and in the world who looks at this case and goes oh i can think of ten other examples of a corporation something similar in the world and like you know maybe like data should be sued for it. They should be held to account and like they know they're guilty as hell am and the. They'll they lost their entire law. Fair legal strategy. Try to destroy the case. Go after me is in itself criminal racketeering. I mean basically a conspiracy to put in false evidence to pay a witness. You know this guy. They pay two million dollars to as a way to bring down a legitimate judgment one and a quarter sovereign nation. It's been affirmed by two. Supreme courts wanted equa canada and twenty nine pellets. I mean that's the racketeering conspiracy right there. It's the sherman lawyers in the chevron executives and their allies who have orchestrated this and that is that is the very definition of a conspiracy but they act like they're the ones protecting the rule of law. We're protecting the rule of law of judgment it was flooded or that needs to be enforced and by the way i just want to mention is we have a thi. This case is living die based on what happens to keep doniger personally other lawyers working on this. Who were exploring waste. When forced the judgment against chevrons assets to force the company to comply with the will of all pay what they owe. Well i mean. Stephen i guess i just For for anyone listening out there. I mean like Was hearing this and want to get interested in the case or wants to support. I just think everyone should think very seriously about what it would mean if they were allowed to not. Just get away with this but to get away with it in such a way that almost nobody even aware of it or that. There's that there's no even even outrage in the mainstream media or in any traditional source of any institution that's meant to hold a check on this kind of power or this kind of abuse of power. I should say i think people should consider very carefully. What the implications of the larger implications of this case mean for Not just your ability to Challenge corporate power but like even more frightening your ability to. I mean like how like what will be done. You successfully challenged corporate power in any way. Yeah that's that's that's the big question. I mean if you don't if you're not successful the stop tends not to happen And i will say this those you really want to dig into follow a daily events. Please follow me on. Twitter at s don. Do nci and you can get a ton of information about the case know multiple times a day on my twitter. Feed all right stephen We will have. You'll have the links to your your website. We'll have information about how to call into the trial on march tenth We'll just any any any way to support you. All the information and relevant links and information will be in the show description of this episode of the show. So i just finally say stephen Thank you so much for what you're doing and i'll be just like to say you know. Please stay strong and Hang in there. Thank you will appreciate the support of view in the show wounds. Lots us thank you. So much stephen. Dancing and gentlemen Like i said like look into this case and You will be interested to say the least if not terrified like i am so Thank you so much for your time. And i hope everyone can can support in some way or call into the trial or show up at the courthouse or just or just just just spread just even the fact that this story exists on your own would be would go a long way because it like as i said it would. It's very hard to imagine them being able to do something. This outrageous i mean what is powerful as these people are as unscrupulous as they are. It is very hard for me to imagine they would have able to do this so easily. If more people knew about it's happening. Thanks i appreciate it.
Trend the Knee 2/12: Wes Anderson, Sarah Sanders, Mack Culkin, Two Year Old Tricycle
"Here's the thing saving money with. GEICO is almost better than playing pickup basketball. Because there's always that guy who joins your game. He never passes the rock. He constantly bricks threes. And who completely hack you. And then put his hands up and say no foul no foul with GEICO. It's easy to switch switch and save on car insurance no need to fake. An ankle sprain. Because you're absolutely exhausted. So switch and save with GYCO. It's almost better than sports. Hi Everyone I'm Brooke Burke I'm making King admits and I'm sex and intimacy coach Leila Deville and we have a podcast called intimate knowledge. That's what this show is about out. That sucks but it's so much more than that. It's about the ups and downs near patients. Ship your sex. Life is about overcoming heartbreak hop break and infidelity. It's about understanding intimacy. And what makes you happy. And it's about everything he wanted to know. But you might be too embarrassed to ask. We're giving you you. Intimate knowledge. Listen to intimate knowledge on iheartradio APP on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts find us the Internet Internet and welcome to this episode of trend. The knee friend did There's no no it's Maritime travelling just travelling all over this damned country coming out to see you folks. You find folks of America's NACRE HANDS KISS your babies. There is holding weird in a photo biden. Imagine me holding a strangers. Based in out badly that would it would be worse than when Biden Rift Rift. That baby diaper Man Well let's talk about what's trending miles. Yeah uh-huh wes. Anderson is the number one trending thing people are really starting to Come around to this year wes Anderson. Like 'cause yeah this this Because we we talk just a that he was trending because the first poster came out for his new movie. French dispatch and now the first trailer has has come out and it looks very wes Anderson. He could be a mash up other wes Anderson movies. This is what I'm curious about. It looks great. Yeah has like all. His films are shot beautifully. Yeah I'm I'm not I mean look do people go to his films because they love the symmetry and like you you know like I know a lot of people who've home aesthetic like is almost informed by Wes Anderson Films. I feel like it's the films or it's the visuals to that are really the hook point. Because he is so insistent on like center framing and having symmetry in his frames yet. I'm curious if you were to do a film that was a complete departure from that. Yeah Yeah like complete departure. What if people are like what that would look like? That's a good question. I don't know I don't know I I don't think he ever would. Though you you get with west in film I mean maybe maybe he'll have another period of his career but Like yeah I think that like I. I don't know that is the art. That appeals to him clearly and he. It just doesn't seem like it's going to change the only thing he seems like he's getting better. Look I. I wasn't crazy about a life. Aquatic or the Darjeeling Limited. I thought he sort of lost his way on those two. And then I love the music on and you know live. Aquatic became the biggest sue. George Fan yeah that was pretty dope. I thought the hotel one on Israel. Jesus I didn't get any sleep last night. All Right Joe Texaco three or three s text. Joe He'll come by three thirty three Joe they look the Catholics good guys. It's everyone credible. It's almost everybody. It's pretty much everybody. Go go down nominated. Yeah Jeffrey Right. Yeah mcdormand Bill. Murray Adrian Brodie Beneath Zeo. Nate shelman there. Yeah shamanism elmes in their body in a bathtub. Yeah trailer and it looks like it's a story told in different or something. Yeah it's It looks stope. Fuck me a wes Anderson Fan Sarah Sanders is trending it. I think because she's trolling people. Trolling the world reality She says that Trump will have problems with African Americans and women and that his language is atrocious. Oh I'm sorry. She said that about Bloomberg and then she had joke no. I don't think it was a joke. I think she's just really that I was. I was doing a joke. Oh I thought she was saying yeah holdout in Funnier if she was I. I know I'm succeeding my job wing. You think that a joke I made was Sarah Sanders joke because a lot of people have said that are aesthetic and just sensibility is similar. So the Andrew definitely for the makeup. Yeah yeah he said that makes sense. Yeah that that. I don't even know what to say. You know because that's so clear about who what. Where do we say here? You work for Mr Mr Racist Woman Hater. Mr Racist rapists person who just talks open shit talks about how he could murder somebody in the street. just says things that make could impossible to explain the world to your child. Yeah in public all the time and I mean look it's either a troll or or like some of these people are so up their own asses. Yeah they can't hear anything their own thoughts. Yeah so is that what it sounds like up there. You just hear your thoughts Dr Flexible. I've tried bride. I've only been able to barely get my forehead to touch. Oh Wow yeah all right well. We're both working on it. So we'll we'll we're gonNA come to the live shows checking are they just basically heads up for an hour now more or less MacAulay culkin's trending. This is news news to me. Yeah you auditioned for Tarantino movie. Yeah dishes for once upon a time in Hollywood and apparently went not good he says quote it was a disaster. I I wouldn't have hired me as MacAulay cogan said I'm terrible ad in any way in. This was my first audition in like eight years. Oh boy I mean. I don't know the last serious work of his that I saw was made micro was on a trajectory for dramatic roles. But if it's been eight years and then you're seven into a Tarantino audition to I don't even what part would he have played. Maybe one of those guys they do to get beat up on the horse. Yeah I on the Horse. Probably he would have been proud Pittsburgh. It's Bert another thing. I like in this article. He's like he missing for the record. Please refer to him as Mac. Macaulay was some other holy was his past due to secure. The bag acted thrive. Yes you know what I mean I just can't I won't do you think Tarantino Eighteen. Oh really wanted MacAulay culkin. It seemed like it wasn't there are. I'm sorry Mac Mac yeah sorry. I didn't know you were talking about that. I the second one to clarify but it seemed like a lot of the performers who played people on the ranch were like second-generation Hollywood or saw uncouple of them. Yeah Yeah maybe there was some idea that like it was stunt casting. There's a narrative dozen. People should've got his brother man. That's that's what is killing areo very good hearing very actor. I thought it was was. Yeah Kieran Culkin right. Yeah two year old tricycle Is that just being. Is that trending item on Ebay. Okay a two year old tricycle. Yeah I mean those are those are I looked on the google like real time searches and it's a toddler childcare tricycle and I'm like a bunch of different ways and I'm like like oh no what's going on. There's nothing there's nothing bad here nothing. No one was injured but this is what happened. A two year old boy escaped escaped from his daycare. Okay and the police found him writing on a tricycle. In thirty five degree weather. Okay and they just pulled up on this kid like you trying to go home. The kid could barely like you know. He's young he didn't really know what folks is. Disoriented was like soaked apparently so they had to go to this daycare center which has had had four similar complaints in less than five years. Apparently there's an annual escaped escaped from daycare toddler. Fest going on over there. They pulled up. And they're like yeah so we're going to have to trouble for misdemeanor here for child endangerment but they were saying that the front door of this home daycare didn't in have deadbolt and it was easy for a toddler to just reach up and open the door cheeses and I think prior to that they were saying like yeah. We tried to explicit. The police officer said we tried to explain to her. Maybe some childproofing. Maybe doorknob covers You know if she's watching more than one kid maybe getting alarm or something on the doors of the door opens. There's a beeping things sound like. Even the way this quote comes off. Sounds like he shouldn't have to be telling someone who owns a child care like yes. But here's the bare minimum for Guichard collection off the floor and like maybe let's let's let's put something that's cover these sockets rather than leaving folks cocktail forks by the sockets. She's seizes do you ever do. Is that your fear is as apparent like a child daycare like you can gets out. Yeah well I I leave them at a place the boards them very securely ages. Yeah I mean you're you're you have a million concerns when you leave your child with so somebody who's not you One of them being you know they're physical security and location and you know one hundred others is being what they will experience that day that will change you know them forever them forever. They have a very limited number of experiences. Ah that age. And they're so fuck informative. Yeah like I can think of like things like when even I'll go to therapy or some shit I try really think back. I'm like Oh shit that came from. I'm like the first hockey coach or some shit. Yeah yeah do you ever have you been surprised by like you not trusting somebody you love with your child now. Oh okay Never been like. I've never trusted anybody with my child. Oh you're saying just my own mother right no no I I pretty much avoid trusted air family with her with her kids. Because you know sometimes I've heard people with hot takes with some of my friends who have children now. I don't like to have like young children. Kinda like hearing them like the between the mother and father talking about like I don't know about so and so yeah I get it if that person is a scoundrel. Yeah it's funny when you hear them talk about that like about a sibling ray or like no yeah no. Yeah well maybe that has something to do with not his child child. Yeah now it's skills. I trust most of the people in my family. I mean you trusted me. Yeah let your kids and I brought over over my knife collection dude I I had a babysitter when I was seven. Who did the actual like knife through the hand like doing shit was alien? Yeah yeah like. Or it's an old navy sailor game right. Yeah basically wait and see he was hooking like being like Yo you took something dope and then like doing the knife in between between his fingers like back and forth while we were like seventy years old I remember busted the shit out of my hand with a mechanical pencil doing doing this great. Yeah yeah and that's the I. It was a certain point I was getting hot witness. Yeah like if people were cheering and like Oh shit. I'm going out of body and then flooding down so hard And I couldn't say anything I did it and then like I was just I made anyway. It's another life show Come on come one come. All US do amateur yoga and some old sailor sailor nights Aric as. Let's do it for this afternoon. We'll be back tomorrow with another puck test and we will start. Aw announcing the year of Twenty Twenty Twenty Twenty Vision that is twenty twenty vision at the center to the exact. That's why we are giving you twenty percent off your twenty twenty with Eilly stick with is designed plus a free consultation and no interest financing. Call the is. He's center today at eight. Eight eight eight four four twenty twenty to get your twenty percent up Eilly sick or visit the eye center dot com schedule your consoles online financing on approved credit. Let's see website for details. Some restrictions apply hi everyone. I'm Katie. couric here to let you know that my podcast next question with me. Katie couric is back for. Its second season. I'll be diving into some big issues like this country's devastating maternal mortality rate. The rise of astrology and a little thing called the presidential election listened to next question. It comes out every Thursday on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your favorite shows.
S5 Ep6 | A Verdict and a New Charge
"Emotion this. England. This is Pablo. Fajardo. He's the guy who along with Louis IANSA won the Goldman Prize back in two thousand eat for his work fighting Texaco and Chevron in Ecuador Remember Chevron took an ad out about how he Luiz were frauds. The heart was actually believed attorney on the case against Chevron. Ecuador. But because Chevron targeted Danziger in its press `push, he shows up less and less in stories about the case from two thousand, ten onward. But he's still working on it. Today we're going to get into more of that as the season goes on, but first a quick recap because we're halfway through the season and it's a very complicated story. Okay. So to recap from the late nineteen sixties to nineteen ninety Texaco drilled for oil in the Ecuadorian rainforest, the company helped to start the oil industry. They're a large group of both indigenous and non-indigenous residents say Texaco left a big mess and they should clean it up. Ecuadorian lawyer in Cristobal. I filed a suit against Texaco in New York in nineteen ninety three when Chevron. Bought Texaco in two thousand and one it inherited this case which was still going on. Like Texaco before it Chevron lobbied for the case to be tried in Ecuador. In two thousand and three, the near courts agreed and the case was refiled this time again, Chevron in Ecuador. At this point Bonifaz Kinda fades into the background Danziger in Fajardo started a lot more involved. And they start to bring worldwide attention to the case, but still it drags on for years and years and years. When we left off last time was two, thousand nine the plaintiffs were on a bit of a winning streak and Chevron was gearing up for a fight. Or really another round. In this fight I haven't called this season Lujan Moon Glover nothing. In episode four, we dug into the details of one particular tactic filing a complaint before an international arbitration tribunal that happened in September two, thousand, nine weeks before that complaint was filed Chevron released on Youtube Abacha videos taken with hidden spy cameras like those pen cameras that you see in novelty shops or advertise in Sky Mall teeny tiny cameras hidden inside normal looking pens. Chevron claimed the videos showed that the judge and the Ecuador case was being bribed. It all had a very national enquirer caught on tape judge accepting bribes sort of vibe to it. In most of the tapes and Ecuadorian man named, Diego? Borsch. An American named Wing Hanson were meeting with the guy who is the judge the case at that time judge Juan Nunez. Here's a tidbit from one of these videos and just note the audio quality. Terrible. Because, you know Penn Camera. Versus. Maximal. Fifty way. So, to set up these meetings with Judge Nunez Borja at Hanson, had claimed to be environmental remediation experts who were tracking the case because there might be working at for them eventually. When these videos came out judge Nunez said Yeah I'm at with these guys I explained the keys to them and how Ecuadorian law works none of that illegal. That all tracks with the tapes that he's in he insisted he did nothing wrong. But still in September right around the time Chevron was filing. It's arbitration claim Nunez recused himself from the case because of this whole scandal. That's at the trial back months because the new judge had to come on board, familiarize himself with the case and read through thousands and thousands of pages of documents and filings and transcripts all of that a couple of weeks after all of this was in the news, the Associated Press published a story that poked a lot of holes in these videos. Especially, the credibility of the American Wayne Hansen as the story unfolded over the next few months, it just kept getting weirder. It sounds for like a Coen brothers movie in law case, and that was the tip of the iceberg thought wild ride right after this quick break. WanNa tell you about another climate change podcast broken ground is a podcast by the southern environmental law center that's digging up environmental stories. In the south, the latest season of the podcast explores how southerners living along the coast are navigating sea level rise as they race against the clock through personal stories and firsthand accounts. Listeners learn how all along the changing Atlantic shores. Communities, and individuals are meeting the challenges with determination to address this crisis had on how will people on the frontlines protect themselves from the immediate and impending threats of rising tides how to our social inequities come floating to the surface and communities battling flooding and storms find out this season broken ground, available broken ground podcast, dot org, or wherever you get your podcast. I. WanNa. Tell you about one of my favorite climate podcasts, mothers of invention. Their tagline is manmade problem with a feminist solution so good. And Mothers of Invention Climate Justice podcast like you've never heard before joined former Irish President Mary Robinson Comedian meave Higgins and series producer the molly Coty Kara, as they celebrate black. Brown and indigenous leaders all over the world fighting from the frontlines. Of course one of my personal favorites is their recent with Mary as Heckler my co host on heartache and my favorite person to listen to on climate justice. But really listen to every episode. Thorough. All Great Fine Mothers of invention wherever you listen to podcasts. Wean Hansen does a great job of playing the bumbling confused American in these videos here. US asking how much longer the trial might go on and you have. Or the forty five more days in fouls over again, Hanson claimed to be a remediation expert who is hoping to get in on some of the work on that front wants Chevron was found guilty. But in October two, thousand nine, the Associated Press reported that Hanson was fact in next con with no verifiable experience in remediation work. That story read quote Hanson into brief interviews told AP he had water treatment projects in Mexico and Ecuador. But when a reporter question those claims he hung up. Chevron claimed to have no association with. But the company did offer to pay for any security and legal fees that resulted from his role in these videos. But remember there was someone else in those tapes to Diego Borja and Borgia was a different story. Initially, Chevron described him as a quote Unquote Good Samaritan? But leader it came out that Borgia and his wife Sarah Tia had both worked Chevron at various points at that point Chevron updated their description of Borgia to a logistics contractor for them. But also Borja has uncle and chevrons. Attorneys had offices in building that borjas uncle owned in June a couple months before the videos were released Chevron, moved Borja and his wife to the US. The company claims that was done to protect the Borjas they rented the couple a house in. California and pay them a stipend of ten thousand dollars a month for about two years. We only know all of this stuff because the plaintiffs hired a private investigator to look into Bourgeois Hansen which turned up all kinds of stuff including some tapes of their own audio recordings of calls between Borja and an acquaintance that make Borja seem like well, let's say not quite a good Samaritan. Here's a moment from one of those tapes. You'll hear borjas acquaintance first and then him. To presently Atlanta Lula's you can tip the balance to either side acquaintances. including. Course and for either of the two sides, look at how much it tipped just now versus says, this was around the time that Nunez had just reused himself. In looking up. In quantum yellow. Winters yes brassiere. With they haven't been able to do and how long a year or something or says they threw that judge out in what three days? Two days? Schools. There are several of these tapes and some of them also called Chevron scientific experts into question for talks about collecting samples for the company which he says he's been doing since two thousand four. He also claims to have set up a bunch of supposedly independent labs to test samples for Chevron. And documents that were submitted to the Ecuadorian court do show not only that borjas wife worked for the lab that Chevron used to test contamination samples. But also that Borgia was handing some samples off directly to her. None of this looked good for Chevron. But by this point lead two, thousand nine, they had brought on the law firm Gibson Dunn and lawyer Randy Mastro was busy gathering evidence of his own about the plaintiff scientific experts. There were a series of wow moments. Here's Mastro. Talking to US via zoom from his place in New York, describing what he dug up on the plaintiffs once Chevron brought Gibson Dunne in to help one of the very first of these subpoenas that we were able to. Issue in the United States was to compel the testimony of. A. Scientific. Steve Doniger had hired named Dr Charles comebacker from. If. You're wondering how chevrons layers were able to subpoena things from the plaintiffs when the case was still going on in Ecuador? It seems very weird. Here's the deal. There's a section of the US legal code called section seventeen, eighty two, and it says basically, if you're an American or an American company or organization and you're involved in a lawsuit in another country and there are documents or American witnesses that might help you in that litigation, you can subpoena them. That's at master used to get. Kulmbach irs deposition. And he was supposedly plaintiffs expert in. Ecuador? Confirming that based on. Research and tests that he had done on that. There was significant environmental contamination down in the Amazon. But when We compelled dot cocker's testimony in Georgia. He actually testified was that the report that Steve. Danziger. Ecuadorian lawyers submitted to the court in. Ecuador. WAS NOT. kambakhsh conclusion. That he had bought in fashion included. That? was significant. Environmental. Damage in the work that he had done, it was further revealed that. Dunn's and asked him before signature patriots separate from his report. The plaintiffs, of course deny this they say combat armor was fired that he thought they owed money and this deposition was some sort of revenge Danziger comebacker authorized the submission of his report and that he sent his signature separately because he'd already returned home to Georgia. In any case, it was enough for Gibson Dunne to get the go-ahead from a US judge District Court Judge Lewis a Kaplan of the southern district of New York. To file more subpoenas. Next. Master went after Douglas. Belt men the executive VP from stratus consulting that we heard from last time. It's a disgrace. They treated Ecuador like a trash heap. He also subpoenaed Batman's colleague an maced at issue is the report by Richard Cabrera, the court appointed expert. Remember I mentioned before that this guy was gonna come up again and again Cabrera and the Cabrera report or becoming increasingly contentious in part because Don's eager was talking about the report a lot in the press and because it was Cabrera's report that said, this is how much Chevron should go to clean up this mess and it was in the many many billions of dollars. According to Mastro Cabrera was supposed to be neutral and not tied to either side in the case, and he was increasingly finding that that was not the case at all. Here's master explaining more. we sought. I subpoena the records and then testimony from. Affirmed that became. A principal outside effort for. Don's eagerness Ecuadorian lawyers. stratus. Scientists at stratus and. When those records you know were ordered produced. Pursuant to subpoena I'm day showed that. The supposedly independent experts in Ecuador who'd been appointed by the court to be an objective independent party in assessing environmental damage and how much there was an attributing it. To. Two parties if there were found to be environmental damage that in fact, it was not an independent objective report, it had been ghost written. Word. For Word I stress. Danziger says there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. That allegation is just a bunch of BS on every level stratus did right or draft most of the Cabrera report. On Cabrera though reviewed, it signed it. They worked together. There was a massive amount of information. You know literally tens of thousands of chemical sampling results in any single individual would never have the capacity to pull that together, analyze it by himself or herself. So we did what Chevron did and what's customary in courts all over the world including the United States we we used our experts. To support. Cabrera who was also our expert because we were the ones who asked for his report Chevron did not in fact, Danziger says Chevron was doing the same thing with their experts. So Chevron used the same method. In support of its experts would use its us-based experts to help. It's Ecuadoran experts right their reports. And this was standard operating procedure under Ecuadorian Law in terms of how expert reports were done in. Ecuador, in all cases in in particular this case, but master thought the plaintiffs involvement with Cabrera was fishy and Kaplan a US judge agreed. So in May two, thousand and ten, he okayed masters next and possibly most critical move a subpoena for all the outtakes of the documentary crude some six hundred hours worth of tape shot by documentary filmmaker. Joe Berlinger. So you have as building blocks you have what happened with Kambakhsh Simultaneous to this, there's Proceedings going on to get documents and testimony from stratus. John. US, officials rank. Joe Berlinger had a made a documentary crude. At had been on the Film Festival circuit. and. The issue of whether. Cabrera. was an independent objective. Done an independent reports and reached conclusions independently. Was Critical in the Ecuadorian proceeding because it was the basis on which Danziger in his lawyers for asking the Ecuadorian court to impose. Billions in damages on. Chevron. So Joe Villager. Reduces crude and it's it shows on the festival circuit than it comes out on Netflix. And Curious thing was picked up by. The Chevron team. There was a change in scenes from the film festival version to the Netflix's version on the scene that had been changed or deleted. Was a scene that showed someone supposedly working as an independent expert for Cabrera. was in fact, meeting with the plaintiff's lawyers and their clients and a session that Joe, Berlinger Steve Doniger grand attendance, and then by the time it came out to Netflix. That scene had been deleted the filmmaker Joe Berlinger fought the subpoena and the characterization of his work as not journalism. It became a really big high-profile First Amendment case in its own way, we're GONNA get into that in future episodes but for now keep in mind this is all happening in two thousand and ten and heading into two thousand eleven and there's still no verdict in Ecuador yet. So you've got the. International Arbitration proceeding happening. Then you've got all this seventeen to action for Mastro eventually, he does get the crude out, takes any files more and more subpoenas. They get doniger himself for weeks of depositions, and he's even required to hand over his personal diary and various correspondence between himself and the lawyers in Ecuador Hammond Pablo Fajardo Him and various litigation financiers everything. Again, this is wild case is still going on in Ecuador. Even. With all that though you know it was very clear in I'd say December two, thousand and ten January two, thousand eleven. The case was going to end and they were going to lose I mean it was just obvious they. You know that all their little tricks had not worked and the case was ripe for decision in the evidence against them was overwhelming and they were going to lose. So instead of just accepting that fact and appealing. They. Prior to the issuance of the judgment neck where they filed the Rico case against US describing what they thought was a criminal conspiracy to extort money from them. Rico stands for racketeer influenced and corrupt organizations. It's a US federal law that was created to deal with the mob and various other types of organized crime. In more recent years it's been used against big corporations. For example, Rico has been invoked in a lot of the opioid litigation in its initial Rico complaint against Don's occur and Fajardo the plaintiffs Chevron alleged that the legal team had cooked up. The case and then sat about falsifying evidence and bribing judges to make it stick about two weeks. After this Rico case was filed the Ecuadorian courts finally delivered a judgment eight years after the trial had started Chevron was guilty and at owed more than eighteen billion dollars in damages. So when the decision in Ecuador came down in our favor to that came down two weeks after Chevron had already tried to preempted by suing us under the Rico case. So when the decision came down in Ecuador, I was in new. York. You know with some other lawyers in the US who had been working on the case and we got the news and we were obviously thrilled. But we also at that point dealing with the Rico case. So it was all confusing in a weird way Chevron had stolen the moment, the judge Ecuador. By this point, a guy named Nikolas some Bronco made a point of seeing that he had not relied on either combines report or the Cabrera work not because he'd found evidence of a problem with either one but because he didn't want the controversy swirling around the to undermine his ruling. Next time on drilled. So in the mornings, we would be lined up in this very long line. We got to get there very early and it was in October November. So it was cold. So we would be all bundled up. We would be in this long line to get through security to get into the courthouse, and we'd have our blowups are boxes with us and our briefcases and. Then you would see a row of five black. Lincoln. suburbans arrive with tinted windows and out of it will become. A senior Management Chevron their head of litigation, their entire legal team, and they aren't they were ushered into a separate entrance. As VIP, they didn't have to stand in the line with all the rest of us. Would get out and go straight into the courtroom. So we would have been in line five minutes when they would arise straight. Drew is an original production of the critical frequency podcast network. The show was created reported and written by me Amy Westervelt my reporter. This season is Karen savage. Our editor is Julia Richie. The show's editorial consultant is Rica Murthy Mixing and mastering by Marc Busch. Original score by the Beeman fact, checking by Wooden Yan, her artwork for this season was done by these super talented Matt Fleming. Special thanks to trevor given an Emily Gertz. If you are a Patriot subscriber, thank you. Your money is helping to make this season and as a special thank you to Patriot members who providing a variety of benefits including bonus content and early access to episodes. In this season. If that sounds appealing to you or you just want to support our work, go over to patriots, dot com slash drilled and sign up. We also have some merch associated with that. You can find stories, documents and photos related to this season on our website at drilled news dot com. That's it for this time. Thanks for listening animal CENEX. Week.
June 28, 2020: Castro Seizes Oil Refineries
"Today is Sunday June twenty eighth twenty twenty on this day in nineteen sixty dictator. Fidel Castro began seizing control of American oil refineries in Cuba. The incident caused the relationship between the United States and Cuba to deteriorate beyond repair for decades. Welcome today and true crime, a podcast original today recovering dictator Fidel Castro's. Takeover of American oil refineries. In Cuba, let's go back to June twenty eighth nineteen, sixty in Santiago Cuba. Fidel Castro reportedly signed a document threatening to seize the foreign owned oil refineries if certain demands were not met. It was a sign of the Times. The Cold War between the United States. The Soviet Union and Cuba was growing more volatile by the day. By the following morning as thirty-three-year-old American Clifford drink junior arrived for work. The Texaco oil refinery in Santiago Kuba. There was a tension in the air. He skipped his coffee and watched his crew work. In the months prior the US advised drake to size the number of American employees in the refinery, anticipating Cuban takeover at some point. Armored militiamen marched in followed by members of Cuba's National Institute of Petroleum Drake ask them in what was going on the Cuban Institute of Petroleum Representatives Demanded Drake and Texaco accept and process between twenty thousand and twenty five thousand barrels of oil from the Soviet Union. Following his own orders from the United, states government drake refused, they would not do business with the USSR. The petroleum reps asked one more time saying they had many of the oil barrels with them. Texaco could start processing right now and appeased Fidel Castro. Drake stood his ground and refused. The Cuban Institute of Petroleum Fire Drake and escorted him out of the building. Armed, militia removed anyone who protested as they took control of the refinery. The institute members declared that the facility its resources and operations were now owned by Cuba's Kuba at throw as ordered by Fidel Castro. His car drake tune the radio to the Cuban government station. A voice announced that the Texaco Shell and Standard Oil refineries would all soon be under Cuban control after refusing to process Soviet soil, the country canceled all exclusive contracts between local gas stations, retailers and foreign oil companies. The government radio issued a warning to other American companies. If they similarly refuse to comply with Cuban government directives, they too, would be seized. Later that night Drake Watch the news. He saw reports of the US. State Department, condemning the expropriation calling it Castro's attempt to destroy Cuba's traditional investment and trade relations with the rest of the world. The US considered the Cuban nationalization of the oil refineries to be a sizable theft at the time, the Texaco, Shell and Standard Oil refineries, hello, total of about sixty five million dollars held in the Cuban National Bank over fifty million of that figure belong to Texaco and Standard. Oil neither Cuba nor Castro offered to compensate the US and the American oil companies for this loss. And? It wouldn't take the United States long to retaliate. Next will look at how the incident damaged the US and Cuba's relationship for decades. Like. Many of you I've been spending a lot of time at home recently, that means I have more time to play my favorite game. Best fiends while the game is casual. Some of the puzzles can be challenging to which is great because I. Get to keep my brain engaged. If I'm having too much trouble, I can usually rely on one of my kids to help me get to the next level. Sometimes they'll disappear with my phone and when they come back, they finished ten levels. It's definitely safe to say. Say We're a best fiends household there thousands of puzzles to solve and every month game updates with new levels and events, so it always stays fresh. Give it a try and see if you can beat my level of three hundred thirty one engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters. Trust me with over one hundred million downloads. This five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must play. Download best fiends free on the apple APP store or Google play. That's friends without the our best fiends. Now back to the story. On June twenty eighth nineteen, Sixty Cuban Prime Minister Fidel Castro began seizing control of the Texaco Shell and Standard Oil refineries that operated in his country, going forward. The Nation of Cuba owned and operated the facilities which were used to process large amounts of crude oil from the Soviet Union. The egregious incident raised tensions between the US Cuba and the USSR during the cold, War. The US considered the incident to be a theft of the refineries and resources worth over sixty million dollars. So, five days later on July, third, one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, the united. States retaliated by cutting its Cuban sugar quota. The US wanted to stunt Cuba's economy by leaving seven hundred thousand tons of sugar Cuba's main export without a buyer in response. Castro said they will take away our quota pound by pound, and we will take away their sugar mills one by one. Castro did just that nationalizing the thirty six sugar mills along with utility companies, railways and banks by the close of nineteen sixty in response, the United States cut off all of its remaining ties with Cuba. Banning all exports to the country aside from humanitarian aid like food and medicine on October nineteenth nineteen sixty. Cuba moved on from the loss of us. Trade quickly finding new Communist allies and buyers for its sugar, the Soviet Union and China the USSR bought the sugar supply that the US no longer wanted and imported many essential goods to Cuba. From the early nineteen sixties until the nineteen nineties Cuba received approximately six billion dollars annually in economic assistance from the Soviet Union. And the Cuban refineries continued to process Soviet royal, but when the USSR was on the brink of collapse in nineteen ninety, the block was no longer able to financially support its socialist ally and cut ties with Cuba. The loss of Soviet support and subsidies caused Cuba's economy to fall into a severe recession food milk and meat were scarce with no more Soviet oil, coming in there was very little gas to power homes and cars. Castro called Cuba's dire downturn a special period in a time of peace. The US offered aid, but only if Cuba pledged to become a Democracy Castro refused as a result, Congress passed legislation and tightened restrictions on its Cuban embargo. Enforce. The collapse of Castro's reign. In one thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, six, the Helms Burton Act stated that American businesses couldn't trade with foreign entities that worked with Cuba. Every year, since then the United Nations General Assembly voted in favor of ending the American embargo against Cuba. However, the trade embargo is still in effect today. However, the policy has been relaxed at times. Castro resigned as President of Cuba in two thousand, eight due to. Appointing his brother row. ooh, as his successor a year later, President Barack Obama loosened US restrictions allowing Americans to travel to Cuba for religious and educational purposes. Cuban Americans were allowed to travel freely to the country and send money to their families. Were despite the easing of some restrictions, there is still tension between the United States and Cuba regarding the nineteen sixty refinery takeover. For decades US presidents didn't let American companies Sue Cuban enterprises for profiting off the use of its former property. American, PRESIDENTS DIDN'T WANNA cause any conflict with their allies in the European Union which did not approve of this option. But in an attempt to further weaken Cuba's struggling economy President Donald. Trump enacted a provision of the Helms Burton. ACT TO ALLOW LAWSUITS in May. Two Thousand Nineteen, since then twenty six companies have filed lawsuits against Cuban entities including American Airlines Visa MasterCard Amazon, travelocity and Expedia. Most, notably Exxon Mobil formerly known as standard oil, filed a two hundred eighty million dollar lawsuit seeking compensation for the nineteen sixty refinery takeover. The oil company accused Kuba Petroleo and the Cuban export. Import Corporation of profiting off. It's stolen property. The amount of money sought would be compensation for the facility and resources and includes six decades of interest. A spokesperson for Kuba at throw your called the lawsuit, a further attempt to damage our national economy through illegal men's. The. Company claims that it has defended itself from similar lawsuits and plans to defend itself in court when the time comes. As of March, twenty twenty the lawsuit is still pending. It remains to be seen if this decades old debt will ever be settled. Thanks for listening to today in true crime I'm Vanessa Richardson if you're interested in learning more about Fidel Castro's regime, check out the parkhouse to original dictators today in true crime is a park cast original. You can find more episodes up today and true crime, and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Metal this spotify already have your favorite music, but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like today in true crime for free from your phone, desktop or smart speaker to stream today in true crime on spotify just open the APP and type today in true crime in the search bar. At, podcast were grateful for you, our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing. Reach out on facebook and Instagram at par cast and twitter at podcast network. We back with a brand new episode tomorrow in True Crime. Today in true crime was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios original. It is executive produced by Max. Cutler sound designed by Trent Williamson with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly. Madden and Joshua Kern. This episode of today and true crime was written by Mallory Kara with writing assistance by Maggie admire I'm Vanessa Richardson.
"Drew allen is a texas bred california based conservative author and speaker who writes a weekly blog promoting conservative ideals. he's just written a piece for pj media entitled republicans aren't neanderthals but too often. We are woefully bad. Communicators president trump. Y'all will recall referred to Governor abbott has neanderthal thinking when we opened up after the lockdown a few weeks back the issue of communication is one that i've spoken to seth. Weather's out of georgia about a number of other people that we just don't do a good job at that. Why is that well. Part of the reason is that we kind of Oftentimes except What the left is saying on the grounds of some kind of factual basis. So we waste a lot of time. accepting their false premise. And then of course going on the defensive always and that doesn't give us an opportunity to actually use that precious time on tv or the air to actually promote Our own philosophy. We don't explain. Why democrats policies are bad. We don't explain what their negative impacts are going to be on the american people and then we don't offer our own solutions and then explain some quantifiable way. Y our solutions are good. And it's a shame. I don't own a cat drew but i see videos that people post where they take a laser pointer and they move it around and the cat chases wherever they go and you kinda feel bad for the cat. Even i don't like cats. You feel bad for the cat because the cat has no clue what's going on and that's what i see happening. I see the media and the democrats constantly throwing out yvonne racism sexism me to university Unum it and we're always on the defensive. Always put out a fire over here and what they're doing is controlling the narrative and getting away with what they want because we never set the stage. We never frame the discussion right. That's exactly right and that's a beautiful analogy. Michael if i can steal it some time definitely use the cash and that's exactly what we're up on the fly. Well you're brilliant man. Your audience is lucky. But what is the answer. How do we retake the narrative. How do we frame the discussion. What we've got to get some backbone and confidence okay. I'll give you a perfect example. I mentioned this in the pj media piece. Obviously 'cause neanderthal. Thinking really set me off because i was frustrated. Assad lieutenant governor of texas. Dan patrick go on. Tv and the way he addressed this neanderthal thing was wanna point the finger and say no you. Guys are all thinkers and anders all thinker because he sending a covert positive patients into nursing homes. Look those are valid and true points but it doesn't move the ball it doesn't it doesn't disseminate useful information and worse. What really got me is at the end of his interview. Dan patrick said well. You know we're not we're not We're not telling people that they can't or should wear masks. And i said look. That's accepting the false premise. You went on the defense and every time you do that. So just pushing back your seating ground so left. What dan patrick ought to of done and look he's a good person. I don't mean to attack and we all we've all said the same arguments and thinking. I'm just using him as an example. Okay so. I don't have anything against dan patrick. But he oughta just outright said look People have the right for self government governance in this country. It's not about the mask he could. He could have obviously pointed out the scientific Irrelevance of wearing him but he ought to have used the occasion to say no. It's a matter of freedom. The government has no right to step in and mandate that. Anyone do this if you wanna wear a mask fine. But we're not gonna have any parts we do this gun control right. This gun control thing is driving me mad because it's a full stop. We have a second amendment rights. So what do we do they say. Oh well we've got to curb violence and and and we've gotta you know they're just common sense regulation and i heard even when trump was president. Republicans said look. We're open to commonsense gun gun. Legislation goal is not commonsense gun. Legislation is to take all of our guns away. That's the point. The argument shouldn't be even to entertain the false premise issues. Just we just say no. We're not entertaining any of this discussion. Because it violates the second amendment period. If you wanna do this there's a constitutional route to go about. You can amend the constitution but forget it. You're exactly right. We we slide into relativity when we start arguing over whether it's three feet or six feet or nine feet of social distancing we have ceded the higher ground of the deeper more important principle the fundamental principle. That government doesn't get to tell us these sorts of things in when we argue over the efficacy of vaccines or masks. Or how many masks or what kind of mask or then we've already. We've already allowed them to gain the high ground of well we will get to regulate you. Now we'll just argue over. How onerous the regulation will be. That's exactly right. They do with everything you you pick the issue michael whether it's climate change or you name it. This is how we conduct ourselves every time. We accept the premise. And then and then we've lost the battle we have and it's frustrating. Because i had a contract professor in the first year of law school. Who said that. Most contracts cases argued before a jury was not a lot because it's a complicated area of the law but they're one based on who frames the discussion and there was. It'll take me a minute to tell the story but you'll get the point. There was a texaco pennzoil. Texaco case in in state of texas. The largest verdict. At the time. I think it was ten billion dollars if i remember correctly but a guy who had graduated from. Ut law school. Joe jail who was known as the king of torts. He won that case against the major new york law firms who were supposed to be the superstar lawyers and here he was a guy with a deep east texas accent and talk like this and when he explained the case to the jury this very complicated case at the end of it as he's framing the discussion of framing the the case to the jury at the very end his this case is about one thing. When you look a man in the i shake his hand and say we have a deal. Do you believe that means you have a deal. Well he won the case for his client and the new york firms. Been a lot of time explaining how this asterisk. In this sub point in this sub sub point meant it went back to this and and he won it by framing it as a question of honor and integrity and looking and we don't seem to ever be on the side that is making the case that that is is so powerful. I mean how do we ever lose the abortion debate. We're pro-life pro-choice how is a choice. Ever bigger than a life any other aspect of life and yet we managed to lose this this debate day in and day out. Exactly exactly it's We have to change a lot of. It is psychological. I think we've been beaten down over the years by a medium machine. That's no friend of ours and so they've kind of had this strange impact on all all of us is making us question ourselves Because they call a stupid ignorant and and it was all thinking these sorts of things. But we need to get that out of our minds regroup stand up and confidently proclaimed and embrace the fact that we are the ones who actually have college. We're the wants to the facts on our side. You know climate change. I i like using example because you know we always sit here and we're like well we're not we're we're we want clean air and water. You know trump said for example. I'm not attacking trump on. I'm definitely a friend of trump here but you know what we should say is. Actually you guys are in saying the world is The earth is five point. You know for four point five. Four billion years old and borne out of molten lava. We once had crocodiles and palm trees at the arctic. The seven continents used to be combined for they broke apart. Dinosaurs were because of asteroids as we've had all these unbelievable temperature changes there. The surface temperature fifty million years ago for example was as high as ninety degrees That was before man. Even you know made it's unnatural presence known on the earth and so they they have climate data available from one hundred and forty one years after the eighteen eighties and based on one hundred forty one years of temperature surface temperature data out of a four point. Five four billion year history. They claim that science scientific proof that we are causing the climate change. It's the most snoop. There's greater evidence of spontaneous combustion then manmade climate change. We have lost the high ground on so many areas You know in your piece. You talk about dan patrick. The lieutenant governor of texas and and and the mask mandate and and what. He should have what you would have liked to have seen him do in what he did. Instead i think about this in so many aspects we we lose the minimum wage discussion because the left out poor people and we don't we only care about big business. Will the data shows that minimum wage increases actually cost jobs to the very people who who need them most. There's a wonderful documentary about thomas soul out and a guy at the wall street journal. I think his name is jason daily. Did it and soul actually became a conservative. He was a student of milton. Friedman and he says he says i was a marxist and he said i got out of school and even milton. Friedman didn't change my mind. I went to the to the department of labor and while there we were arguing for a minimum wage increase about which i was passionate and he said he was only win. The data came in and showed that it would cost jobs and actually harm those at the lowest levels. And when i showed that data to my bosses they said well that that's not the point we don't care he said. That was the moment. When i realized these people are telling lies. They don't actually care about working class. People they care about controlling the economy and he said that's when i began my shift to a conservative. He said the left paints a very pretty picture. We deal in a world of reality and sold. Didn't care what you thought of him. He just kept preaching the truth over and over and over again. That that's right and i think it was so who actually said. The effect of minimum wage is actually zero dollars. An hour Because you know you don't have a job and You know that's that's a great point the fact that we live in reality because this is what's dangerous about the left and they're utopianism right you can you can do anything and try anything If it's you know for the purpose of creating utopia Because results don't matter this is the thing with the left They don't care about results. They only care about the reasoning behind it. And you know it's like you know. I think of like an nfl coach it in the real world. You don't get awarded for your intentions right if you if you're a senior and you're in ap math class and you want the test. You don't then say well you know i. I intended to get an a. And then suddenly you get into harvard or something like that because your intention and a coach who loses every game of the season can't can't claim to say well you know. I intended to to win this year and And then he's you know get a contract extension. But that's the world the democrats and the left and these marxist live in. They don't care about results. You know when. I read your piece. The thing that came to mind was when the left makes the claim that everything that we're racist and that's the way they get a greater expansion of government greater control greater regulations. You name it. I find it fascinating. How often people on our side whether they be politicians or thinkers or intellectuals feel the need to begin their response with look. I'm not a racist but you shouldn't need to state that in the moment you do means you've lost the conversation you you you've lost the discussion you've lost the audience because you've you've seen the higher ground you've basically said that they have they've landed a punch on you and now you're having to to say well it went bad punch. It didn't not me out and and that's the point at which you've lost. That's why what you wrote appeal to me. You talk about mitch mcconnell. I'll read for our audience. Exactly the the the line too often. We are woefully bad communicators. Look no further than mitch. Mcconnell for for proof. Does anyone believe that mitch. Mcconnell has ever made an effective case against the democrat party and change the mind of a single democrat voter. How about john bainer with made me want to punch a wall just reading the name john. You could written the entire piece mentioning him. Good yeah yeah causing a little bit of nausea to come up. Yeah exactly drew very well written piece. We will have you back again. It was Published at pj media and we have linked it on the website. Michael berry show. Dot com drew allen texas bred california and. He's got a stack. Which i still don't know what the hell that is. But i'll figure out at some point drew allen dot sub stack dot com. Come back and see us buddy. Thanks brother anytime.
4. Gene Key - From Intolerance to Forgiveness
"They lovely by come to beyond reality. Podcast i'm dominic porsche. Your podcast today at talk about the chinky number four and it's written a universal panacea pennacchia. I also had to look it up myself a little bit. It's kind of like a miracle cure or a cure for every sing for all and that's the sense for this chinky is about. It's about the shadow of intolerance the gift of understanding and to city of forgiveness so at the highest divine frequency. It's all about forgiveness and so we will go into details about forgiveness and vote understanding and intolerance means in a chinky is always like the on rings and here we have to quote on ring of union and they're besides the four chinky is to seven chinky the twenty nine and two fifty nine as i always tell sinked only thing you have to know that they are a relationship in the ring. Indus l. chemical and chemically ring of this genetics whale. Like it's the main topic of union. So they are all in a relationship here and the programming programming partner offered. This is the chinky number forty nine which is a shadow of reaction. The gift of revolution ended the city of rivers. And he has always reinforcing each other. When you were in a state lower state of intolerance you always really to life and when you when you react to life you are also in tolerant and sold. The different stages reinforced each other s. Who probably not is always involved a little bit in the ching like based also to the parts of the itching. Wester sixty four hexa crumbs. That's why there's a sixty four keys and in each in this Four hexter for texaco from is useful fully. So it's about the unexperienced young kind of personalities that have to make the experience first and there's a lot of mistakes to be made so let's go right into the shadow intolerance fully of hughes into each in its written Interence is stressful. Half hotness this kinda of the quintessence of like this shadow frequency that. There's a lot of stress and we do everything have hot and an extract from the book. The fourth shadow. The shadow of intolerance is rooted in the minds. Habit of becoming tangled up with human emotions. Intolerance is best understood through its relationship to procreate partner. The forty nine shadow off reaction is already told this always this entanglement between disposed shadows. So that means in a sense. We are governed by aware motions and we tend to react to a lot of things we maybe should just have a deep pres like maybe also like just getting a little bit air our and making some noise so you can have a bit of refreshment before reacting to everything and so. It's also a lot about the misuse of the normal gift of logic. Logic can be in an awesome gift however like at this shadow frequency. This gift of lachey used against someone and therefore we planned our serve which is a really big challenge because we are not able to see that we find ourselves and atas and there's one big challenge and devastate. The human mind is not assigned to take sites it is designed to be neutral and that is a big challenge. We have in the society that our mind always wants to take sites and the mind checks really what positive what is negative can be done or can that be done in a different way and like the mind is not meant to make decisions however we used mind to make an to decide something which is a big challenge in our society today and as always liked the shadow state is in two well to elodie and here we have the reactive and the repressive nature which is a pedic like nah pedic mind. Is the reactive the repressive nature which is kind of introverted nature and this means the pedic mind is a collapsed mind. We are really collapsed within. We don't really know what we are doing. We are kinda lost and there's a lot of like this introverted. like intolerance twats ourselves and then we have like the reactive nature which which is the extroverted nature. It's nitpicking and that is the need for answers like sick. It's like a lot about security. it's like we are always going out in the need for finding some answers for something. Because if we're not doing it we don't feel safe. We feel like something could go wrong. And i don't know if i'm on the right pass. And and this is also one of the main reasons this chateau states that we are in. Search for god for spirituality. For a truce for our sole purpose and all of this kind of spiritual Searching and an end of us in a way however let's not stay at chateau st forever. Let's go to gift of understanding to understand more about this chinky and the gift as toilets understanding and it's about quantum cohen's and what's very interesting about coins coins. It's kind of a paradox. Given to the mind to solve and that understanding or we we have to understand that the mind cannot solve it so we understand okay. The mind is not dare to solve some things. It is beautiful to help in a lot of ways. However it's not it's not developed to solve like the the hidden the hidden truth of life and that's why this is about quantum cohen's dissed and in the end each ing it's written understanding is restrained commitment a short extracts for the gift. The gift of understanding has nothing whatsoever to do with knowledge. Knowledge is what your mind sings. It needs in order to take away. It's permanent feeling of unease but knowledge can never bring a sense of peaceful and that is very beautiful extracts from the book. So it's really about this deep in vistim and not justice knowledge in a way that that we kinda understand it today in a way knowledge we need to know what Like the past has brought because that will determine our future none of the things. We don't have to need a lot of this knowledge things we know. We live in a society where it's so popular to read thousands and thousands of books and most of them. They give us knowledge that don't give us wisdom because wisdom has to be experienced from the whole being and from all of the cells and then that is true understanding and this is what the gift frequencies like this higher frequencies all about it's about transforming those lower of shadows into gift and we have to understand i our interence to be able to have true understanding. So what really loft in the book. What's written there. Also what. Richard toward so beautifully. Nothing can be proven through lunch because lot shake can always be used to prove to opposite. Let that deeply sink into yourself. It's one of the most beautiful sentences i have ever read and also the most revealing because we also use our logic to under to try to understand the sentence and for me. When i read that sentence i think like nothing can be proven through logic because lot she can always be used to prove the opposite and i think like oh yeah. That's actually correct. If i want to. If i want to prove something i can also use. Logic to to prove upset is correct and that is one of the biggest challenges we have today also where we are in this conflict more where there are a lot of people in this world that say our this business people are bad especially the business people that ruin our society we have like. That's one of a the stories that my my kindness. Brutal guide toward a lot of times is that we had this time of this nuclear my applause ming off the the energies into seventy sixty seventies eighties and the where a lot of people that were against Having nuclear energy and this facilities around the club and so everyone was against it and they told beddis nuclear things are and so but like the people that developed like this nuclear reactors and nuclear energy to make a business also to give people energy they always were able to find reason and logic to prove the opposite and then we this pinnacle that we cannot really solve something by being against something. It is not possible because there will always be forced us to tell. But i can use logic to tell. It's actually not so bad this nuclear power and so we at the start again. Nothing actually has changed. And now we are like forty fifty years later and we see a lot of more people chest. Yeah the chest make alternative energy solar panels like a lot of different energies. And i don't care about too much about the nuclear things anymore and so this is the way to do it to just do something new to create something new and that is also done with a quantum cohen's and wishes understanding when we do something completely new and opened in new market to the world and say look this is actually a lot more better and a lot a lot more to say also natural and it has better long long availability for the global society for us for the planet earth. Then this is something that yes at some point will be approved and it will also be will also be seen by people that may be can support you through through investments and so on and so on indeed is Yeah something beautiful about chinky is that we we are able to understand too steep deeper knowledge about About this understanding and about conflicts about all of this low shadow frequencies definitely live in a lot and also the higher like the gift and in a sense of the city and there. We go no forgiveness. Mercilus forgiveness in itching. it's written forgiveness is still devotion hot took from the mind and did sorta not supposed to be craft from the mind extract from the book forgiveness born out of understanding but it occurs when a being makes leap beyond understanding. Forgiveness is a stage further from social revolution chest because a person has understanding in good intention does not mean that they can orchestrate a society. History has shown that revolutions never changed the world that just change society and usually only peripherally. The highest possibility of the forty nine chinky is to city of reverse and this is the city that always vacant alongside forgiveness. The programming partner is to forty nine chinky and so reverse and forgiveness all ways awaken alongside and here we see really the difference between chested revolution and understanding about society and true forgiveness state of a reverse. It's being that attained christ conscious. It's all about old deaths at all levels comic releases and the boat is wound. This world wound of guilt. Data's forgiveness and forgiveness able to forgive everything and to love everything at all levels and this chinky is also imbedded deeply into this christ teachings into the buddha teachings and to all of this crazy consciousness being said that have been alive and it's also a part of the seven sacred seals this forgiveness and it's the fifth layer of this teaching richard rut. Also prot life. And it's related to arc inca lick force of sod kale and that's also the budi bali. It's kind of like an unconsciousness for slack. Fire like wind like water like light like all of these different forces and so this ingala force of socialist again a different force. And that's how i see it and what i resonate with us. So it's not like the angels and like not like in human bodies or whatsoever there are everywhere and they have like this purpose to have to own purpose. So that's that's really beautiful. Destination of this. Forgiveness is to rupture the connection between black and white past and future. It's really about bringing an end to the logical fabric of space time itself. Another beautiful short sentence of chinky spoke. It's really like impossible to describe this infinity of possibilities because forgiveness. It's one of those cities said Indescribable and it's only possible to go through the china who received understanding ourselves. And that's the deputy of the chinky also so thanks a lot for listening to this beautiful. Chinky of forgiveness feel free to visit my plop beyond relative dot com for comprehensive rates on purpose chinky and spiritual awakening and for longer and details xinke transmissions with adults on my youtube channel beyond reality and chinky day. I have like a bit. Long transmissions already over surgery transmissions online and watched by over fifty countries now and i got really nice feedback and it's lawfully. It's also started to do the podcast. Supreme this transmissions in a different format to people don't want and remember this always option to give feedback for the podcast tabs me and others for find podcast and for me to improve the podcast and so yet that support has a lot to crow this movement toward center of people's heart and prosperity and always days to the option to subscribe to the podcast and it is free ended stays free. So all the love you dominic and see you in the next episodes.