11 Episode results for "Terry d"

Training Camp, NCAA vs. California, Dame Lillard vs. Shaq

Pull Up with CJ McCollum

46:22 min | 1 year ago

Training Camp, NCAA vs. California, Dame Lillard vs. Shaq

"Everybody is extremely excited and looking forward to competing this year as a team understanding what coach Terry wants out of all of us from a schematic standpoint to a breakdown of where we should be defensively and how to basically played a game more efficiently this season people believe that college athletes should be considered immature. They should not be considered professionals and they should not be paid but I think most players and people who have watched the game and seeing the amount of money these games generating seen seen how kids oftentimes are exploited a lot of these major colleges and universities. There is enough money to go around when shack initially disdain. He said that it wasn't anything personal just more so words in ramp like shack challenge him in a distant. He's going to challenge. It's what emcees artists that like do and I. I think it was very competitive. Obviously there's no real malice or beef towards one another but I think they really went at each other. Welcome to the red grange episode of pulled. That's right episode number seventy seven back in Portland Oregon a season has officially officially started its underway many teams across the NBA are going through to it as right now which basically means you have a contact practice in the morning in a non contact practice at night. Do the rules in reasonings. We are not allowed to have back back contact practices into certain hours we can spend on the court as a team and I am very thankful for those rules and regulations that are in place and I feel sorry for those that came before me that were forced to go through much much more stress on the body mind throughout training camp. Jordan is back on the east coast. I'm sure he's enjoying the heat wave that has taken over the world and he may have watched the Houston. Rockets beat the brakes off of a-team eighteen recently and witness. James Harden's one legged three pointer miss bad. How could you miss it. How could you miss it. There's nothing on TV right now so they have to show preseason games make highlights out of pregame warmups well. He did it during the game and missed from the corner. Russell Westbrook looked like he was about. He would have gone crazy if he made it. It was entertaining not effective. I told you this summer having watched James in the five on five run it brick spot not in the city that I. I didn't think that was going to be very effective at all. maybe he's still tinkering with it but it doesn't look very natural and it only only takes like a two for seventeen start for him to say you know what this is not working yeah. I don't think it's a shot. He's GonNa try to do often. I think it's something that he's messing around with right now in in terms of trying to create separation being iconic in with his step back. I figured he wanted to make it more advanced so to speak but if you're north south with the one leg three pointer. I think it's it's a more efficient shock and be more productive. I know a lot of players in Europe. Shoot one-legged three brothers shooting one-legged threes these were for a little while now overseas and you see more often times than not in Europe especially when guards are coming down ball screens and are able to kind of get that leg square uneven. Steve Nash shot a lot of mid range jumpers where he was off balance. Maybe one leg as he's going downhill. We're trying to find that angle off the backboard but I think that the best s. part about this whole situation is that the NBA has officially started and that teams are now scrimmaging against each other some preseason games that are taken take a notice here shortly. I think in Hawaii we have the clippers and Houston Rockets will be playing each other we will be playing the Denver Nuggets on Tuesday and I know that that the Lakers are also taking a trip to China so it's GonNa be a fun time this season. I think I'm most looking forward to just being able to compete beat against other teams again being able to see the improvements players individually have made as well as teams based on adjustments in free agent signings. Have you got a chance to see some some some clips from the Brooklyn. Nets scrimmages with Kyri with the mask on yeah. I'm still trying to understand what's going on there. I have the nets are an interesting team for a lot OUGHTA reasons. The mask is like that's not a I mean. That's a temporary thing right like he's just doing that. He got hit. He got hit in his face. because it's it's a Cam Oh mask the reason I say it's my temporary because some guys after they play with it for a while start to like it and they'll and they'll use it longer than they actually need to from a safety perspective e-eh think depending on the severity of the injury and how comfortable players with it obviously he's he's had injuries to his face before so I'm sure he had a mask ask standby and it was able to kind of turn around quicker than normal but a lot of guys get comfortable with it and they become superstitious. WanNa leave it on or they fear that they're going to get hit in their nose. IOS Or whatever is bothering them again and they try to protect it but I think he'll probably playing it for a little bit and then once he's extremely comfortable. He'll take it off because there are some issues guys have with breathing in the mask and having the mass kind of fog up at times. Have you ever had to wear one. I haven't I haven't had to wear one. Thank the Lord and knock on Wood. I hope hope I never have to be in that position. where I have to wear a mask that means you had a serious facial injuries and as a shooter I mean there's you know that adjustment? It's one thing to have you know something wrong with your finger of your hand or an ankle but when you're talking about your vision and depth perception I mean these are things that really can affect you. I I never it had to have it in college either but I just I can't get over that look I mean it really is something I think he actually looks Kinda. Good with the camel. Oh mask I kinda hope. He wears it for a regular season game just for the reaction of the fans but it doesn't seem to be hurting him very much. Cj what's it like being back in in Portland being around the coaching staff the players all your guys because I imagine it's dad the camaraderie that you really miss over the summer. That's probably the the best part of camp at least right now. It's definitely a cool feeling. Everybody is extremely excited and looking forward to compete in this year. I always say it's like the first day of school and obviously this is my seven and season so it was like the first day of school going into high school going into college or going into like the next level of the workplace understanding the the game that much more understanding what I need to accomplish this season individually collectively as a team understanding coach. Terry wants out of all of us from schematic standpoint point to a breakdown of where we should be at defensively and how to basically played a game more efficiently this season you know than I did an impasse. Yours is always physical but it's been great man. We've been getting up and down getting after defensively offensively scrimmaging there's a lot of talent on this roster without a lot of new players come in. We've lost a lot of players so getting everybody acclimated with our culture how we do things in Oregon what time we show up to stuff the film aspect of breaking down the Games and figuring out how we can be more sharp how we can push the pace shoot more threes so it's been great man. We got a lot of new pieces a lot of guys. We're going to contribute this season and I'm really looking forward to the challenge of trying to get to the NBA finals the two guys I'm really interested in from a new you know changing teams perspective is is this on Whiteside and obviously nice here a little coming in as a draft pick. What's I guess. What have you seen from both of them? Although it's very early early and what do you live from I've seen a lot from both of them especially why side early on a guy who's played. NBA for quite some time who's lead the NBA AH in blocked shots who's lead the NBA rebounds obviously the numbers he put up last year were in. I don't know twenty twenty one minutes a night. He's getting the double his ability to alter shots. What's is is something that's special unlike anything. I've seen from teammate of mind before great lands you're talking about a guy who can basically hang on the rim and have his toes session the ground so that gives you a perspective of how long he truly is and you add that Athleticism Eddie. Has You had that frame in his timing and he's a he's a problem right away on the defensive in on the offense event he knows how to carve space knows how to seal. He has a jump Hook. He can catch lobs and he's a threat around the basket where you have to respect him on the roles if he's not available what he's been turning in ceiling and doing a great job and we're getting him more acquainted with cashing in the middle of making quick decisions whether that's a flow or hidden into the weak side so it's it's been it's been a lot of fun. We're all adjust to each other and figuring out what type of passes we have to make certain guys and in figuring out spacing angles we'd like to come all screens but overall caused great and little is going to be very talented yes questions. He works hard. He's in the gym getting shot allowing nights when I go in and double back tried to get some work can he's in the gym trying to tighten up some of his deficiencies any wants to learn. I think that's the biggest thing for young guys you know their work ethic and how eager they are to learn learn and be coached so his athleticism is already off the charges skill set in terms of what he'll do in the NBA is still developing involving so I look forward to seeing you know nine zero zero as he continues to grow an age. I told you from the GECKO that I love that pickup in the draft for one he from a talent perspective. You could have made a case. He should've should've been a top five top ten. Pick you guys get him at twenty five. I believe and then you know he's GonNa be very motivated. He already plays with chip on a shoulder. He's that kind of player plays very hard and he I just love these you know young versatile wings that can play in garden multiple spots. I think he'll be a perfect fit for for are you guys and I think he'll grow offensively and then you mentioned whiteside he owned. There's a lot for him to prove. Cj You know because he was five years ago. People thought this guy was going to be five years ago. People thought he'd be a perennial all star. you know he things did not end very wall. MIAMI. You talk about him not playing a ton of minutes. He's got fresh legs. He just turned thirty but he's got a lot of tread left on those tires and he's going to be very motivated so I love both those pickups. I'm curious for you. you know how does Nurk look feel. I know he won't be playing right away but what's the status of of Yousef negligent great he's in a really good spot from await standpoint to movement and the things he's doing in the weight room. I'm I'm really impressed with the transition he's made from crutches to not being able to walk to being back walking with his boot off to being on the bikes do not actually get to court and doing some movement stuff I'm really impressed with our staff and in the way he's approached this tire process. He's happy again. He's excited about the opportunity who needs be back around the team. You know when you go through the Rehab phase is very difficult on you mentally and physically physically worn down your depending on others again and it's it's hard for you to to really be self sufficient and then you're you're not really around the team as much as you like to be because you're rehabbing so you're secluded not traveling so for us to all be back in town again for him to be able to come the practices workout while we work in galaxy. US interact with us and continue to progress in the right direction. It is is amazing so what we're really looking forward to get him back. Obviously we're not gonNA rush him now. We WanNa make sure he's one hundred percent in he has he has the right end de each chance to take as much time as he needs and when he comes back we'll be ready to go. We'll be often running and we will be able utilize big fellow again and he'll make us that much talk better because of his versatility people forget how dominant was before. He went down. You know he was really dominating. Both ends of the court his passing Ding his his touch around the basket. He showed improved jump shot. He's making his free throws. In he was really turned into a corner putting up all star caliber numbers. I remember when he went down. You talked about how you went to his house and spend some time with him and just tried to make sure his mindset was in the right place. sounds like you feel as if he really maintained that positively despite some of the struggles he definitely he definitely maintained a positive mindset and outlook on the situation understanding. There's nothing he could do about the injury. Besides move forward besides focus on his rehab been just trying to get a little bit better each day and he's done that. He's approached it in you know with with great will and determination. I remember seeing him in their six seven eight. Am He's doing on the Rehab side trying to tighten up especially Ashley when he was going through those phases of having to be on the altar g you know which basically reduces your weight and allows you to kind of progress quickly in terms of maybe using sixty percent of your way starting to walk. Maybe running on seventy percent instead of the four hundred that you have a normally off the treadmills and things of that nature so I'm excited about. He's hired artist chef. He's really tightened his his whole his whole life up. He's tightened up his mindset. He's tightened up his his approach to the game and I've always said it when you go through traumatic. Matt experiences not that I've been to want to this extent but injuries to where the game is taken away from you. It changes your outlook on everything your approach changes in how how you value things changes and your work ethic a lot of times for the better changes because you're so focused on coming back better than you were before you left that a lot of times you come back but a better player. Klay Mentally and physically what's funny. We have an array of guys. Come on and talk about it last week. It was Alvin Cook. You've talked about it. I know that it seems like no matter the sport if someone has an injury at the professional level an injury that makes them. Let's say Miss Significant time weeks months. There is a you know learning process that takes place if you're willing to allow your mind to be there and get there but a learning process that takes place which is extremely beneficial so that when you come back you've now seen the game different way that you can apply it and then maybe more importantly pardon me you appreciate the game and your role in it more than you did. When you were healthy yeah absolutely I think we've all seen that you know by we all I mean players that have gotten hurt and just watching the pace of guys when they come back from injuries watching obviously Daban Cook situations different being football player but he was able to have a fool summer of actually training and that means something a lot of times when you're rehabbing. It's hard for you to really work on your crap because you're focused on you know equal equal side of things you're making sure equilibriums right making sure you're working the right side versus the left side keeping the structure and its attendant issue trying to strengthen attendance in then you have to mix in the appropriate amount of rest during the recovery to where it's hard to really train and focus on adding strength focus on adding WanNa do focus on adding quickness because you're really just trying to rehab. Get yourself healthy again so I think in in in nurse case he's been able to Rehab. He's been able to also work on deficiencies. Get stronger tighten up his is balanced and now I think the last phases comfort comfort ability and being comfortable getting the conditioning aspect back and continuing to feel as as if he can go out there and play without thinking so in terms of well. I guess this is there's really no way to transition but the NCAA has been in hot water. Cj and finally some progress is being made in case any of our listeners have been living under a rock the NCAA's defeat in California basically says that in twenty twenty three there is a good chance or a fighting chance that college athletes will be paid in California. What is your interpretation of this I think just my opinion that nobody cares about. I think it's great news. I am so excited about this but you're the one that is in the league now and had to go through on what many athletes do so give me. A sense of your think is definitely is great news and it's a step in the right direction. I think based on the conversations intersections that we've had as athletes with outsiders with people who are involved in college people who are not involved with college sports. I think the reoccurring theme Liam is people believe that college athletes should be considered amateurs. They should not be considered professionals and that they should not be paid but I think most players and people who have watched the game and seeing the amount of money these games generating seen how kids oftentimes are exploited a lot of these major colleges universities there is enough money to go around and I think a lot of people aren't breaking down the actual number. You look at some of these. TV deals that these colleges and universities these have have partnered along with CBS. You look at the shoe deals you look at the apparel deals that these university to designing and obviously there are issues with title nine is trying to figure out how to balance the money but I think for respective athletes in student athletes to be able to receive money to be able to to be paid by local car dealerships be able to receive funds in from from local sponsors. I think that's a step in the right direction. Obviously everyone's not created equal. All athletes are on the same level so the star player at Ucla is probably going to get more than the small school kid at Loyola Marymount or whatever the case may be but but I think it's a step in the right direction because of the amount of money that's being generated because of. I know what it's like to be a kid in college and struggle struggle. Sometimes you struggle financially. Maybe it's the background areas where you come from. It's not often times not enough you know based on tuition wishing based on pell grants or whatever the case may be and I think this is a step in the right direction especially for California with it being such a major sports state date. I think this is great news and obviously I don't know the INS and outs of what this law or this bill will entail. I'm sure there will be some pending challenges towards it. I think it's a great step in the right direction for a lot of student athletes and I think it will begin to start some nice bidding wars for local sponsorship sponsorship in in in potential deal opportunities the fact that it happened in California to me says a lot because you have very connected it did politically connected schools in that state whether it be cow Berkeley Stanford. USC UCLA THE UC school system as a whole and I love the fact that Gavin Newsom the Governor California the fact that he played division one baseball at Santa Clara he understands what athletes are going through and you know guys not sometimes having the opportunity to pay for their food. I mean basic stuff that you would think is included in a scholarship but isn't always the case and I understand that the NCAA is its own. I guess corporation in that they have operated like that for forever but this this is now this is a I guess you could say their armor being tested because for the first time ever you see that the NCAA's vulnerable and that you have like a Tana backing for student athletes that wasn't there before and the fact that the governor of California of all people people is that the is spearheading. This is just a great thing so I'm excited about it like you said there's a lot that needs to happen still but this this is good news for me. I think it's great news and obviously doesn't go into place until twenty twenty three so they can continue to ways to Kinda tighten up this new law that that will potentially go into place. I think a lot of other states will follow suit people talk about the unfair. Recruiting advantages may create. I think this is just more so a challenge to competitive universities around the world to potentially look at this. You have a lot of football players who have name and likeness you have a lot of basketball all players who have named likeness from sport to sport and I think Lebron had a great point Zion Williamson a guy who played in college last last year was in a situation where his team was constantly on TV. ESPN games CBS GAINS PRIMETIME Games and the ticket sales alone the tickets gets are being scalped. The amount of money per ticket was unbelievable. It was unlike anything they've seen comparable to super bowl tickets comparable to NBA finals tickets in a college game solely because of this kid people wanted to see him play and he wasn't able to obviously receive any benefits or anything of that nature is your based on his name and likeness but you Could Buy Zion Williamson's Jersey without his name on the back and what's to say that he doesn't deserve a local the car deal in Durham a local Jimmy Johns dill local starbucks deal how is that hurting the NCWA if a guy is the inner city and he's able to capitalize on his ability to generate funds for not only himself but for his team and gives them a chance to make some extra money to help support his family family. Give somebody an extra opportunity to be able to make money while going to school while playing a sport because you can't go to class and go to work. It's not enough time in the day hey for that as a as a full time student athletes so and play exactly and try to play this gives people an opportunity to really take advantage and obviously everyone won't won't be. Eh accredited the same opportunities but it's a step in the right direction. Your Times has a really interesting article. I'd recommend everyone interested in this read. says years of public polling that showed rising support for compensating college athletes for their talents did not go unnoticed in Sacramento which of course is the capital of California and even then there were still some question marks as to how this vote would play out It's in the infancy stages. You talked about potentially having an unfair recruiting a You talked about potentially having an unfair recruiting events. Cj that would be in California. I would imagine which is the. NCAA's point that for example if Sanford at USC we can pay their athletes in Washington Oregon. Can't why wouldn't a student athlete. Go to one of those schools. what say you on that yeah. I mean they have a point but at the same time somewhat GonNa go where they WANNA go. They don't like California. They're not gonna go there just because they can get some extra endorsement deals. I feel like a a lot of times. People are picking universities based on feel the vibes that it gives off. Obviously the coaching staff makes makes a difference. The educational aspect type of degree. Can I attained from this university and was the competitive nature of the university out of conference schedule in conference schedule. What type of supporting supporting cast will I have as a player and a lot of times. These guys are trying to team up now. So you have people who are friends all the way from grass roots and a lot of times they want to go to the same universities in schools together other so it's just not about just the endorsement deals side of it because California's a beautiful place but does ucla get the best talent every year. No This cal Berkeley the best on every year absolutely not because there's a lot of things factor into the ability to offer certain players scholarships obviously cow. Berkeley's is a prestigious university which means the requirements to get in or higher. You have to have a higher. Act Sat score against the have a higher GPA so I think players are going to pick schools based on feel based on Opportunity Based on coaching staff. The endorsement deals side of it is just a bonus but I don't think more players are just going to go to California just for that. Ah I don't agree I don't think so I asked a a highly decorated high school basketball player that question just out of curiosity he didn't get the sense at all that it would affect him obviously he won't be there in twenty twenty three but basically the thought being if you could go to ucla or USC and have money that was legal and not you know get the same benefits from going to. Let's say any other school outside I California. What would it make a difference. The answer was was really know. I do think that you're going to see other states now. Start to be aggressive and make the same push. That governor didn't governor newsom in California have. Would you be surprised if let's say within a year or two years that most states did not try to create eight similar legislation. I think the NCW is pushing to get rid of this. They don't like the thought of this This is like their worst nightmare so I think they'll discourage universities around the country to to put this type of practice in place but I think the Ohio states of the World Old Middle America will definitely relish the opportunity to kind of create an even playing field with the California schools. You look at football. Football is most prevalent in the south. You got you got the Ohio states of the world. The I was the big ten and then you have the south with Clemson with Alabama MMA with all those types of schools so they're looking obviously at this twenty twenty three year this is going to be enforced and how many great football players could really take advantage of this deal and then how many maybe lower level division one players. Could maybe get a local endorsement deal or just be able to you. You know. Maybe it's a car dealership. Maybe it's a sneaker sneaker deal because the universities are already sponsored by the Nikes the UNDERARM CDs anyway so why not be able to get a little bit more. cash will decide from that as well. I totally agree and you know people smarter than me. I'll leave it to these these folks to figure out the distribution solution from let's say football and basketball to tennis and baseball or softball but I I don't know I didn't play Major College basketball but I spent my first two years at Seattle which was a scholarship school and I remember guys struggling like middle of the semester late semester to get money for food food because the scholarship money was only so much and it bothered me then it bothers me more now now that I've become more educated on it and and you mentioned Zion. I mean you know if he if he had I wonder for players like Zion's caliber of Zionists caliber and RJ Barrett. If these guys were getting paid. I wonder if it would impact them or maybe other players to stay in school longer. perhaps in football basketball because they felt more comfortable about their financial situation and that was maybe more induces to graduating or at least staying at school in the year two. What do you think I think guys would still gopro regardless of circumstances because it's still pennies on the dollar you know even if they're able to. Let's say they get a six-figure Cardo which is high end so the six figure sneaker deal which is on the high side of what a lot of these college athletes will be offered as amateurs if you go to the NBA or NFL You're being paid top dollar. You're making millions of dollars in their Garin in its guaranteed dollars over three years over two years over four years depending on the structure of the contract so you're not. GonNa turn down to fifteen million for three hundred thousand. Stay stay an extra year to stay an extra two years to make six figures when you're going to be making seven figures with a potential to make eight draymond and Lebron have obviously been very outspoken on this issue have you talked to any players though CJ that don't agree with this new law that are maybe saying you know what let me you push back on this besides Tim. Tebow going on TV saying that he did. He didn't want people accept money. He didn't agree with it. I haven't heard any current current players of Jek this mainly because you should be compensated for your work like if you're good at something and you have an opportunity to sell pants you look at their house state. Michigan rivalry get gold pans have these awards and rewards that are given out for victories. If you WANNA sell it this year item you can sell. If you WANNA sell your a big ten championship ring. It's your ring. You should be allowed to sell it and make money off of it because you worked for exactly and there's no other job in the world where you you perform. Moore paid in our paid for it. No one's no one's doing free labor exactly end and if you're if you're a regular student not a student athlete you're just at at Duke or you're at Washington. You're at Michigan. You're at Ohio state. You can do any of these things and not have to worry about it but if you're an athlete you do so if like if Coca Cola or Pepsi wanted to sponsors I on. Why couldn't he said let me let me take this deal? I mean not not all the senior companies as in soft drink. Makers are going to want to make deals like this. There's GonNa be a select group of players in both football and men's basketball that are going to have this opportunity. Andy and hoop far for us to say you know what you can't do that and the NCAA CJ I have been probably as critical as the of the NCAA as anyone It's President Mark Emmer. It used to be the president of U. Dub. We got to know him a little bit in Seattle. I thought he had good intentions. He's been very very clear that if you abide by this law for instance California schools there will be a punishment if they're the reason I asked if other states would get involved with this this legislation because the more states and more schools that do so the harder it is for Mark Emerton the NCAA to penalize a few select group of schools right and these schools are we're making so much money they can afford whatever bill is. GonNa throw at them. They want to try to find universities or whatever the case may be. They can afford it. I think people are getting so all caught up in the kids should be paid or kids shooting me paid. I think they should have the opportunity to explore it. If that's what they want to explore to to just take awaited opportunity completely is unfair especially when these universities are making millions of dollars and when these sponsors are generating millions and millions of dollars. I think think it's important that respective student athletes have an opportunity to benefit on their name and likeness. That's all they don't have to but they should have the opportunity to to decide if they want to. WHO ARE NOT IT'S UN-AMERICAN. It really is in the bedrock of college. Sports has been not paying athletes but this is just un-american to me. I I don't know how else to put. That's the simplest way let's not. Let's not pay the athletes but let's pay their coaches eight million dollars a year like come on yeah. I really I listen listen I will we'll be monitoring this. No question about it but I I'm. I'm happy to hear that we're on the same page I think most people most reasonable humans especially anybody that played sports in college could understand how how how much good this bill could do do okay so it's been a fascinating week for Blazer fans for the blazers because a camp but also because your teammate in all. Mba Point Guard in pull up guests Damian Lillard has had a few words exchanged wish Shaquille O'Neal. Have you noticed this J I have I heard the district mm-hmm when shack initially this dame dame told me about it said that he already made his response or whatever in the WHO's GonNa put it out shortly and he said he's GonNa go at it and that it wasn't anything personal just more so you know words in ramp like shack challenge him in the distant. He's going to challenge shack in a disk as a response was what it's what emcees in artists and like do and I think it was very competitive. obviously there's no real malice or beef towards one another but I think they really win at each other and and when a dame's funny bars all the money in the world trade issue for Penny and I think I think they both you know has some pretty solid lines but the funny part is that Dame ame really wraps. I think obviously shacks on platinum. He has a history of avenues hand in lots of different pots. He's an entrepreneur is an analyst on TV. He's a hall of Famer. He's one of the greatest players ever played the game and I think there was just confusion or maybe a mix up in you know how shack perceive an answer from Damon. I'm an initial button interview dame basically said I don't think people look at him as an artist people look at him shack. That's how I look at him as shocked a global figure and I think Jack took offence to the end. intern made a disown so I think it's it's good for the culture is it's good for both of them to be able to get back in the Bukit back in the studio and and and make art and I think it's good for fans to be able to listen to it in common judging Integra what they like better for what it's worth who who's distracted you think was better ed thought. Dame's we don't even think it was close but but I also don't think there's any malice shack he. He's not he's just a big lovable will guy like this is how he operates. I I met Jack. Cj when I was in must've been sixth grade and this is a crazy story that I've never actually told I must have been. Let's say eleven years old and I'm doing my homework in my bed or on my bed. I didn't even have it. I don't even think I had a desk and I'm basically let Sam reading writing and all of a sudden I hear footsteps right and I'm like what is going on. 'cause sound like it was almost felt like it was an earthquake and in. Seattle we had earthquake so us. That's what I thought and then out of the corner of my eyes see this massive human being walking to my room duck under the the door and and just kinda stroll role in and sit down on the bed to which almost broke and it was Shaquille O'Neal he and my dad had a had a good relationship and he would would come over whenever the Lakers were in town from time to time and have dinner he used to just eat loads of food and cake and he was so good to me as a kid that I just loved him for it but even then I will say I thought dame got the better of him and dames dames in his prime as a rafter shacks basically retired tired so I I am not surprised yeah I agree I think I think dame's wordplay was better. I think his punch lines bars better but I liked. The animation. Shack Shack. Put the little puppet there. He had some intimations he say he's a showman. He's he's definitely a showman and I look forward to seeing. There's a response. I'm not sure if she kill will responds. I'm not sure of Dane with a back to back drake style but either way. I look forward to seeing what happens and we don't have a game until Oh the twenty third so there's plenty of time for them to get into studio if need be they got about twenty one days until I first game. The real question is why do people feel feel the need to come at dame. Now I know that he went on Joe Biden's podcast and said he's a better rapper than shack but guys feel like they want to get the best of Dame and I'm not sure anyone has yet yeah. I don't know I think we live in a world now. Where people were very sensitive. People are very sensitive especially usually when when it comes to comparisons people don't like to be compared to others. They don't like for people to express their opinions on themselves. When it involves putting someone else down I think the last last time somewhat distant was Marvin and I think he was upset with something. Dame's interview or another and intern put out distracting they went back and forth for a while but it was more so in in play playful attacks jabs bars and in this this next case it was another instance insa where someone felt disrespected responded. We live in an era now where people are quick to respond to be angered. Quick the two one two one up the next. It's kind of funny to me that under the world has come to that but news to say I enjoy it and I hope he will continue to diss each other and make song so that I can have some entertainment in my spare time. CJ mccollum ever consider getting on creating attract. I'm not a rapper. I I have been boop loop before. I've actually made song before as younger person but you never hear them. They'll never be released and it was just more so fun because we enjoy art and music is definitely are it's. It's a form of expression something I enjoy being a part of but I told Dame told you bud and the other day Joe Biden has facetime D. and I I was like I'll do some ad libs and that's about it. I might do like a little intro. You know maybe some spoken word in the intro to where I'm really just talking. It's not really rapid me talking and basically setting the scene for what's about to happen on now. Maybe interlude or an altro but that's about it. I have no desire to pursue that field mainly because I know I'm not very good at it but also because I rather listen to music to make it I really get the sense that he enjoys this though he not only enjoys being in the studio but he enjoys the extracurricular activities like this. I'm sure he he was happy. He had he had a chance to get back into the studio quickly a an put something together because of shack. I'm sure he really enjoyed it and he really does like he really does. Enjoy in writing music making music the whole process of being in the studio. It's it's SA- therapeutic for him. I think it's his escape. Obviously obviously we work so hard at their craft works hard today that you need another hobby we call him healthy hobbies to where you were able to be productive but step outside of your normal space. I think music is is that for him. Absolutely I mean for you. It's probably I mean wine net flex. I know you like to read Yoga Right Reading Netflix podcasts Yoga. There's a loss of you can do outside of your normal day to day activities especially if it's running up and down a corridor getting hit and football or swinging baseball. Everybody finds a healthy hobby or something outside of that dre. Eh uses an escape speaking of hobbies. I guess close on this your Cleveland Browns your favorite team had I- shocking knocking blowout win in Baltimore I was on the Ravens. I could not believe their performance. They put on on the road and by the way you know your your twitter instagram was was to fine look like you're at some bar with several very uneven rated browns fans and also on twitter making gene batch with people and apologizing profusely Freddie Kitchens. I mean it was an eventful Sunday afternoon for you. Super eventful. I JUST WANNA shout out the fans here in Oregon. There's a bar we're all the browns fans can gather at in Oregon. They watch games every Sunday to get together as about. TV's connected that make like a huge big screen slash ashby screen to where they're all able to eat. Do our dog pound cheers dog. Check engine support our team. There's a lot of people from northeast so high that have moved got ordinary people from all across the United States that are fans of the browns and able to kind of come together but we really enjoyed the victory. It was a team victory where defense really we stepped up. Obviously Denzel Awards still hurt. We got we got Randall back and he showed up showed out. are run game. Jobs is utilizing the run game. We didn't run a drawing forth nine in we actually ran the ball on the gold line so we're taking steps in the right direction and Baker got rid of the ball faster. He got the ball out. He wasn't rolling right right. He was poised he looked like baker of all he'd like. Baker who is determined to prove his doubters wrong. He looked like the baker who was confident himself and the craziest part about all of this is that Odell Beckham wasn't really involved in the offense he attracted a lot of double teams yet help top targeted five six times the only ended up with two or three catches and we were still able to kind of dominate the game so I'm looking forward to a Monday night. I will be in attendance shall be great game aim and this is our role to to ten six two and two right now top of the AFC north and we've got a tough opponent and the Patriots and then I think we go on cruise control crews attend six out of all the great things that happened offensively defensively back to catches for twenty yards. I means in his last. Two Games eight catches for seventy six yards and only about ten yards a catch. Are you concerned at all that he has yet to find his rhythm. I'm not concerned because does he's an elite player. he's a game breaker one of the best athletes ever playful ball so when he gets the ball in space he'll have success obviously played against the rams defense that was locked in shadow and him and had help over the top in cover two and against against the Baltimore Ravens he had someone following him around on the field as well and and that opened up things for juice that opened up things for the tight end that opened up the run game for jobs so as a player especially as a receiver. You don't always have to have catches the impact a game. His presence on the field alone draws two sometimes three is sets eyes on him so he'll figure it out still be a thousand year receivers. It'll be a pro bowler at the browns winton Games and get to the play offs. I think he'll be happy if production is the same as it has been historically because he's such a good player he will have of success couple news and notes before we close out today's episode. Lebron James is Oh to high school. Jersey was put on auction speaking of northeast with you still high. Oh and the bidding of Jersey. Cj has reached thirty seven thousand dollars. I hope it gets over fifty pretty pretty cool. I I wouldn't mind having that on and then second of all congratulations to Tim Anderson a friend of the show and just a great all around Goud who just wrapped up the Al American American League batting title this week three thirty five batting average pretty cool man s dope male. I think that him coming on the show really helped. He's going through an injury career. He was recovering from his injury. They were clear as my come on the podcast and then continued to bat better than anybody else in his division region. You talk about greatness. That's great being able to accomplish those things now. He deserves a nice nice nice glass of wine speaking one. Oh there it is acute. Why music please Sir Perfection Jordan. The off-season gives us a time to reflect on accomplishment. Look at what we want to accomplish going forward and celebrate special moments with family and loved ones as the season approaches. It's important that we always sit down have some food and potentially some why so recently I sat down with with coach Terry D. Mato Gaucho shot the Gaucho great steakhouse here in Portland and coach. Jerry was kind enough to let me pick the wine so naturally literally I went through and I tried to find something that I hadn't had before and I found a Margot Pinot noir two thousand fifteen from the chalet mountains. It was a solid solid finish. depending on where you look for online it'd be about thirty six thirty seven bucks obviously in restaurants up charge you so you will we will be prepared to spend more. It was more bold than light more smooth in tannock more dry than sweet and higher on the acidity side of things which means your mouse. GonNa Water. There was definitely some fruit notes is in there along with some out a more of a fruit guy personally so I was really excited about that. Nice and light it appeared well with the stake I had and and I also have some oysters and it was really really enjoyable one of the top twelve percent of wines in the world and top twenty percent of wise in the mountains and it definitely definitely goes well with red meat if that's what you're into but you can also pair with veal tear things of that nature and and as for most Pinos I say you store it around fifty eight to fifty nine degrees okay. That sounds great. I'm going to need some of that and I actually actually also had a great Pino. Cj Ironically C. J. from the same has the same name of the school. I graduated from dental as you know I graduated from Occidental College and it's called Occidental because it is a it's basically a vineyard that has been a small vineyard that has been turned into a Pinot because the kisser winery which is a great I mean they make excellent wine and especially Pinos their family has adopted did or I guess created this this new vintage and it's excellent. It's about sixty eight sixty nine dollars and I don't know the details of it it. It tastes very similar to literal which is a wind. I've given you that you liked. It's a little less expensive and you know it's basically right next extorts illiterate in terms of the the location so I I loved it and I'll send you a picture and make sure you get in your collection. I'm looking forward to a man. I'm looking forward to tasting. Nisa and I appreciate you sharing man. I do and we appreciate all our fans out there for tuning in fans and listeners alike didn't catch us on Apple podcasts spotify dot com back slash pullover C._J. Or wherever you get your shows and don't forget to all all up.

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EPISODE 72 -- BOBBY LABONTE PART 3

The Down and Dirty Show

1:12:30 hr | 1 year ago

EPISODE 72 -- BOBBY LABONTE PART 3

"Hello my name is Rik Houston and welcome to the scene. Volkov cast your source for all things NASCAR history presented by doc maintain excellence. We ended the year. I'll never forget sitting in the banquet watching him on stage and I'm just angry because I'm like I wanna be there be there. You have a gut feeling of how good you are. How good you are at that time and a good you're team is it was going to drive a car? I was like I am really kind of enjoyed a couple of kids off the they NASCAR and all associated in any way. When that's forget it's passed as today? We don't have any hello. I'm Steve Wade. Komo name is Rick Houston and welcome to the scene vault podcast presented by QR stave. Before we begin I gotta ask you a question. Have you recovered from stocks for tots the House. That signing our buddy I say I have a few cramps there eric. It was well worth. That was a great event and I guess we signed signed pretty consistently for a couple hours. That was a great crowd and very enthusiastic and I thought it was pretty cold because one of the very first. There's people through the line at a briefcase of stuff that he wanted to get signed and everything and he pulls out a copy of brave in life and of course I start giving you a hard time and everything You know went through six brings. Okay is that episode and then he is up and now how's he did something else and he pulled out a copy of second to none so we both signed copies of our books which was pretty cool and then just the enthusiasm Hasim that people had in. We had several people come through the line and tell us that they really enjoyed the podcast. And certainly there were those that might not have heard the podcast but they I certainly remembered saints so that was pretty gratifying. That's right and we gave away commemorative Darlington issues of scene and rick. In the last Persian came through uh-huh we had one copy that my stack was kind of dwindling and as the line kind of thin down and everything and the end of the Sonnen got nearer are Kinda counted people in line and I counted fourteen people line and I counted the number of papers that I had and believe it or not I had fourteen eighteen paper. That's right I guess that was just meant to be well. I'll tell you something. It was a cold wet night. No question about it and you have to admire the dedication of race fans not John Battle that wetter but to come out there from long distances I mean some Missouri and this is up in North Carolina and they did it to get are autographed. You gotTa wear the big draws at stocks. Todd's Steve Steve. This week in our first segment we are going to have the third and final installment of the interview that I did with Bobby Labonte and we discussed his two thousand Winston Cup championship his relationship with Joe Gibbs racing teammate. Tony Stewart the decision to leave Joe Gibbs racing and finally the latter after years of his career and some racing that he did this year at Bowman Gray Stadium. Yes Sir now that's our core and then in our second segment. We are going to tackle some more listener questions and they kind of run the gamut one Bella asked if there were people that we just didn't didn't like which I thought was kind of interesting. Well that one certainly Steve. I don't know that we we'll tell everything that we know in that. One on Patriarch in. We have new support from Jordan turnage and also. We have pay pal support this week. Week from Josh Ward and Robert Layered so guys thank you very much for that support. It means a lot to us. If you could possibly help us out on patron do five dollars a month want and you will receive a copy of the commemorative issue that we did with Darlington and also a classic issue of Winston Cup saying do ten dollars a month and you will receive both of those newspapers and the Steve Wade rookie card. Thank we've got three three or four. Okay good depending on how this goes. We may just have to dig up some more of those cards. Oh my goodness S. stocks were probably ten or fifteen. At least one MM person had a set of a dozen of my cars. I couldn't believe it. I have a feeling I'm going to be buying those on Ebay but seriously seriously. Help us out on Patriot patriotic dot com slash. The same podcast or on pay pal. If you'd rather just do a one time show of support you can do that. Ah Pay Pal dot me slash the same podcast beginning in nineteen ninety six. The team made really steady improvement in the standings. Nineteen Ninety six or eleven. Not Tonight Seven. You were seventh. Nineteen Ninety Eight. You were six nineteen ninety nine. You were second. was that kind of progress. Okay with you or were you wanting to be on top right now. You know I thought I thought for sure that We weren't good enough every track all the tracks to be. You know bill right here right now. we had work to do and we we I think in ninety eight we we showed that in the ninety nine. We were definitely there I I didn't think that it was you know we didn't deserve ninety six hundred seven ninety eight. I thought we were going to get there. I mean Tommy worked out would probably would I thought was right but I didn't think I should have been there before that. I think we with what we were gaining on. And what we're doing. I thought it was you know. Steadily creeping up on it was probably the was working out not ninety nine. Tony Stewart moved up to Winston Cup and became retain. May and. Bobby I gotTa tell you. Your personalities would appear to be almost almost completely opposite and as good as he was on the race track. It seemed like he was always getting into some kind of controversy those first couple years. What was your thinking during all that? Did you ever sit down with him or did you and coach ever sit down with him or was he just going to be Tony to be Tony. You know I think that you know. I'm I think Tony was going to be Tony Coming. It was it was. It was obvious that way with him being hired because he was hard hard to get to he was hard to get. You know you know If you look back at how coach said can I get your number and three days. He's later you know I'm I'm doing it. Yeah it didn't take me months at a time. Of course I didn't have you know I wouldn't an IRA. I wasn't doing this and that so tony was. I mean Tony headed headed. He's just got a different style and So you know as our personalities might be different in some ways I mean you know I got to know him well enough. If that it's I mean what his heart is is full of gold and what you might see at one place is not what you see all the time No No. I didn't sit down and talk to them. You know I mean there was a lot I mean I I'm probably Hopefully lead by example more than telling somebody what they I should be doing Roth I think that You know I think I think Tony Tony was was probably good. Good good is good for us in a way because you know sometimes that differences better than you know when you just do the same thing over and over again But no as far as me you know I I kinda welcomed the fact that I knew that this kid you know was gonna be you know a star superstar and you sometimes you have to take a little bit of a little bit. Yeah okay. That's not something I would we do right but at the same time goodness for anybody for a better person but you know would would I see him do things. That'd be like why wouldn't do that but that's taught me that he's not me so I don't I don't think I'd ever I wouldn't i. I can't change. I don't want to change changed the way I do things but I didn't want. He wants to do it the way he wants to do it. That's fine you finished second to Dale Jarrett in the championship standings in Nineteen Ninety nine. But but you were two hundred points down. What was your outlook going into? Two thousand will again. I think that with the addition of Tony and ninety nine nine It helped you know our elevator. Whole Program It ended up a little bit. Jimmy was getting pulled in different ways. adding Greg but still his responsibilities were more But I knew that going into the two car team and obviously as fast as Tony is going to be you know just just GonNa get better It's dunk that. We were down that far in ninety nine but I can. I can pinpoint you know one race as for sure that we lost a lot. That's that was my bad. I mean I lost at at Cinema going into turn eleven. You know I went to pass Nemechek. It can go right into the tires like okay. You know how to rip it had a good finish and Kylo that was my we were we were then. We within striking distance to a point. You know we're still going to be is still gonNA take a lot but that was like we were put ourselves down Saying that I mean we ended the year. I'll never forget sitting in the banquet. You know watching him on stage and I'm just I'm just anger. Anger is could be. Because I'm like I want to be. They'RE GONNA BE THEY'RE GONNA be there in as much as I love dill jared Meriem and got his autograph when I was. When he's Racing Gra national car and I was race late model stock me? He's my hero but unlike and we were that close. You know we were that we could. We were getting to be that good So you know I thought I thought for sure. Ninety ninety nine are better year but then in two thousand I thought doc in two thousand and we just. We really just didn't do anything wrong. I didn't hit a set of tires. We didn't have anything crazy at finished like teen laps. Like like like the record for laps finished all but seven laps for the whole year. There's a there's a staff that's that's crazy it's it's like Mark Martin was before that at at certain amount but always I finish all but seven ten laps for the whole year like it was one of those things you just like. You're never gonNA finish the top ten. Are Your your top fifteen so saying that I mean we just between Earnhardt and I and you know Who else you know IRT? I guess or somebody who was third fourth. I mean but I you know I mean we were just like my gosh we so fast so consistent and just didn't have anything go wrong you know and Tony there. I mean there's an elevated our whole whole program so I kinda I kinda felt like you know. Ninety nine was a was that two thousand Redemption Year from ninety nine in my mistakes You know just you know just missed it by a little bit and how do we improve Atlanta early. That year you started door with Earnhardt and he beats you officially officially by if I'm looking at the numbers correctly one thousands of a second from the city your car. What are you thinking last? Couple Paul APPS WILL I. I know that You know again. We had a fast car. I think skinner was the fastest car. He blew up with a few laps to go on the restart. We took off and I mean I'll run nearly wide open and three and four. I mean back even back in those days you run wide open could run wide open and So no catch earnhardt is one thing passing is going to be something different and you know. I've caught him off. Return to go down the back straightaway and you know I got to his rear bumper anomaly. And I'm just like all right. I mean I love that fact. Because here's the intimidator right so he'd been running low and I got to bumper and I'm like all right. I don't know which way is going to go. But wherever he goes on we'll go the opposite so he chose high because I was high the lap before so I mean boasted so I dove low and got to the white line and just you know he he had run off that corner and You know I didn't looking back at it. I wish had moved up a little bit sooner. And maybe a momentum would've carried me but it just you know he had more momentum off the corner and I could not believe that I thought I thought we had him. I thought we really had him. And and you know it took quarter the lab for the to kind of get the radio chatter down to. You didn't win frustration and But my gosh I mean that was like I mean again. That was our year. I mean we were just like that was almost like okay. Take Snapshot This is. What's GONNA look like the rest of the year? You two guys. Are you going to be balanced for the most part you know throughout and And I think that that's That was kind of like okay. Here's what you here's what you're GONNA do. You know you're going to do this and it was I of course I blame it on. I think Chevrolet that week before that week. They got a inch and a half extension on their front knows. The kickout was ancient half and I was like saw. I told him I said that's the only reason why you one is because you had that because if you hadn't had that I probably will beat you by that much Chino but yeah that was a that was just awesome to catch him going into three on the last lap. Going all right which way you're going to go and we did it. Without wrecking each other. You know we just. It was a good good. Good Clean Rice Bobby. As good as the year two thousand was for you. It was also on the same hand very difficult for the sport with the losses losses of Adam. Petty and Kenny Irwin and Tony Roper. And there was just a furious debate over safety. Yep The whole year I mean I it it was. I remember that year in it was a tough year in general. Did you make any kind of changes to your car are. What was your thinking during that time? Yeah not not really I mean I think We put we put the the nets in the right side. Left side of the car. You know for your head And I mean you know on top of three people getting killed there. There's a lot what people got hurt. I mean like her bed and mothers broken leg or things like that and I mean you don't I mean I definitely didn't go home at night and go. This is scary. This is unsafe. This is this is this and it was a You know I think what we did to. Our cars is just kind of do what you know. And we put the safety net and the right side and we put one on the left side because the window net wouldn't do enough for us and so there was a smaller net that we put up there that that did that Did you try the hants. Nope I didn't really now not try that I didn't PRY I. I did this I can probably tell you. I don't even know what it was. How can two thousand? I still had when Adam died. You know I was dumb enough for just naive enough that it was a carburetor. It wasn't a you know as you know mentalities talented when thinking that he could survive if he had to say so I think we were working on our throttle cable. I think at that time you know where we got off the drag racing off of the top fuel car Coaches were we had a cable and several Rod. You know because that was what happened to him was Air Cleaner you know. And then we still wasn't the you know fix all. We had a throttle hang wide open. A Darlington crashed That you're so anyway but no I didn't. Yeah I just. It's that was tough because you know we been at the racetrack or seeing this happening. When you're when you're there you know Kenya obviously were in that New Hampshire? I think Tony it was at Texas truck. We were there that weekend. I'm sure neck data. That was the not before earnhardt won his last. Brace Gotcha okay. So we just I mean it was tough because this is our sport and our people you know what I mean. It was definitely you know everybody series has been through things and we were going through that. At that time you did not lead the championship standings from start to finish that year. But you are are pretty doggone close at what point did you allow yourself to actually think that this might happen. You know I'll be honest with you. I mean ah I felt pretty good. You know pretty early on. I don't want to be cocky about it but I felt pretty good early on. I just I just when you you gotTa feel for your Racecar and the you know the competition and you know where people are trying to you know catch up to you. I mean I felt like we're just like we were just one step ahead so early on I felt like we were. You know you have no idea but I felt like we early on you know. Barney thing disastrous were okay. We you know we're good enough. I mean we were. We were now good enough. We weren't quite good enough the year before even though we thought we were but we. Weren't you know this year two thousand I. Oh I thought we were good enough pretty early on you win the Busch Series Championship and Ashbury emotional. You Win Your First Cup race. And that's pretty emotional Indian then. I think you actually clinched the championship in the year. Two thousand at homestead with a rice to go. What's it like to be at the top of the hill like that I'm it was there? There are moments throughout the year. That kind of I go back to you. Know have to reflect back on a few things and so a couple of those times to me is You're one was at India. The brickyard We're racing rusty Wallace for the win and we can't beat him you know In the short run but we can beat him in the long run NAKASHIMA passing pit. He out front. He pulls way I found kind of get on So then at the end of it I'm thinking you know I think finished third second two two years in a row and I'm catching him and I'm like I finally passing and you know we all know I got by him and ended up win the race. And it's it's like you know you you just know you have a gut feeling of how good you are and how good you are at that time. And how good your team is so That was like one of those checkmark things of like you know were were there I think Darlington for the southern and five hundred in practice leaper road go make a qualifying run a window in the back straightaway. Wide Open get turned three. The throttle hangs wide open. Hit The wall. I come down pit road and crashed there on straightaway. Get out getting back car. Make a couple of APPS I told her I said I think I'm GonNa go the Infield Care Center just to make sure I'm okay. I'm not sure so earnhardt sitting right behind beside us. And they're all like all jacked up because they're like we guarding this weekend. We ended up. We win the race K.. Through the most weirdest race of all we won the race and he could want it and he I led the last collapsed under caution. He comes up. Beat my back bumper off after the checkered flag in just shaking his fist. Yeah I know that makes Chad and But those things you know lead up to when you get to homestead so we're running good and Rockingham. We had target down. We'd both finished about the same but we got home stand. We've got got a huge lead US finish like twenty something in Burghardt wins right so we go out there and I think we might have won the poll. Tony and I were first and second and I think finished fourth Tony Windsor race. I'm not mistaken. I think that's how it worked so anyway in just I mean it's just like it just all you know again it's like people ask me said hey you know if you got a lot of pressure on you know. I didn't realize I had pressure on me until after homestead because then it was like I was relieved and I didn't realize I was just lying. Everybody so bad because they're like are you you know. How much pressure do you have your pressure? I convince myself. There's no pressure here we find and there's a ton of pressure and and when you when you win is like I can't believe that I can believe we did that so it's just one of those you know it's it's Emotions of being able to get to that point dislike amazing that we were so good all year ear and I mean just let all year led most of the year and and finish it off with a race to go and we're just you know that that fast car was just that fast that year. And just you know when you've you when you know your car and you know your team that's just I mean you know you're that good and you're at the top of the heap. It's always good when people always you know. WanNa know where you're at in practice right rear end practice and we were always that guy. was you know in the top five of the lists. It seemed like so. There's no better feeling than that when when you're able to do that. Just put it that way a two thousand and one through two thousand and three. You're still winning. Still Win Two or three races a year a couple of races a year then then in two thousand and four shutout victory lane for the first time in ten years. was there ever a point where you went to Joe and said I need some helper burry. What was that period? Live at. Joe Gibbs racing. Yeah for me. It was tough. I mean because Joe Gone Back to football okay. Yeah he identified boss stuff. Jd was air Running the team. You know Jimmy had moved on to a different role We had a number of crew chiefs. You know different Couple different crew chiefs and Just couldn't seem elect good find the Mojo back to where we pat it. You know in two thousand and I remember when Earnhardt died in two thousand and one. I mean that I mean that you know when you're supposed to walk into Daytona which we did you know with your chest out you got to you know the next right Rockingham your chest. Our you know. We're we're defending champions. When earnhardt died you know of this high MIS remember? I'm not really sure you know I'm just didn't you didn't have that much fun. You know quickly so we went to Texas the two thousand one. I was like we. We blew up again. I was like I don't I think we're that good. It took US figure that. I don't think we're that good anymore so anyway it was a struggle and I you know I mean I point my finger at myself a lot for just like you know what could have done differently differently to okay. Rebound this saying turn it around or help be a part of something instead of it but I think joe leaving and going back to football and just kind of that. I had that comfort. I had that that had that going for me. And just you know Jimmy was you know my guy and then when he was now he's a more the manager and I'm like that and it's you know it's funny I had zippy would come over and he'd asked me a question. I'm like Dude I can't can't you ask them. Why can't you be Makuuchi for day? You something so. It's just a lot of things were happening. And you know you wanNA have Yeah you WanNa have that success and it was just getting Kinda hard and so You know I wish now looking back on it which I could have done something differently. I'm not sure what I could have done but Yeah that was getting to be some tough times times in so finally when it came you know I think we should probably dissolve. This is when when we did. How difficult was that is very difficult? I mean in in one hand you wanted a new fresh something fresh because you want to be successful and you want to do good and the other hand it's it's it's tough because you're not You're not doing As well as you think you should difficult time after that you drove for a few you different car owners. You drove for petty enterprises. You drove for Ted Jody Scheckter and Brad Doherty and I guess a couple of others after her being at the top of the heap as I mentioned for as long as you are. What were those years for you? Yeah that was you know. It's you know going to the Pettis ladies you know I was. I thought I thought that was going to be you know when they put robby in there and you know I was. You know this is as you know this thing where you can you. Can you like gibbs what there was a single car team racing against other teams and you. You didn't win right away but you you were able to help be a part of organization that went from one. Two races uses to now. They're win a champion right and so at the time like the Pettis it was like okay. They're this point and they're you know in in their this point today and you believe in yourself and you go I go over there. You put this person there and you put top parrot there and you put so and so there and you put you know few the people in the right places and you have influx of money that you can help build that to the next to what what you experienced that Gibson. For instance right. Could you take what you learn. You take your life lessons. You take your race lessons and racing knowledge and you hope to turn that into a winning formula as well Oh and It seemed like that was going to it was kind of going the right way to the first for the first little bit and then it you know then. It was a became more of a struggle and realization. That we're you know we'RE NOT GONNA we're only gonNA spend so much and we're not going to get any further so it was like. How do you get past that you know? Yeah and and then you know and then at me you know that point time. Then you're like you're you're you know as as that wasn't happening time still passes and you're yeah then you can't how do you get. How do you grab a hold of that? You know it happened to Terry. When recalled him right it was actually the agent because he called I answered the phone? They call it hate speech. Your brother I think we're GONNA tear. You're GONNA do this so but for me. That wasn't there. Wasn't there rekindle that said. Hey come drive my car because we believe in you and your yeah. It was at that point in time. It was like Picking Slam. You know you're looking throughout the garage just like You know things were you know. You're you're chess. You're losing at your chest game. Did you get caught. Maybe in the rest of the young guns so to speak because obviously he did not forget. Forget how to drive a race car right. You don't do that. No no I think that I don't think it was a young gun thing I mean I remember when I came in urban. I hate you because you're take my job one day. You know I'm just kidding around but because I was younger than him so I don't think I got. I don't think I was at that point in time. It wasn't that seemed like that. Big a deal until later. Two two thousand fourteen fifteen sixteen. You just run three or four Rice's year most late Daytona and Talladega kind of like what Terry d At the end of his career was that just for fun Or were you still trying to maybe get on with a more established team. Well I knew that that candle was getting dimmer right right Far As career goes you know I mean I was still doing things behind the scenes that you know I could probably tell you about now but at the time I couldn't tell you about As far as Working in testing and stuff like that for different teams or for actual more for one team but So I was being busy doing stuff in cars minus four. And you know there wasn't I mean you know it's just like your paper. Here's yeah that's that's on its printed in. Its for sure this is. This is really what it is so much opportunity with Josh Comstock and Archie and and Frankie were to drive that you know they asked me drive the cars good for them is good for me to Kinda you know and I mean sure. There was a point in time. It's like I wanna run every erase and then after. I didn't run all the races. Oh went and I had. I had a couple offers. You know that were not you know. They're they're not going to be winning. Cars of course behavioral and drive a car. I was like ham really kind of enjoyed a couple of weekends off here. And they're going to do that. I should go to Atlanta. Beat my head against the wall right so it Kinda uh evil into doing that stuff for Archie. Josh passed away comstock passed away. You know I knew that that was you know that was like okay. This is not going to keep going. Because he sponsored the car is friend of ours from Texas and he held archie out. I mean you think of Archie if he hadn't you know things like that if maybe I terry and I had little influence on what archie that today getting his deal was you know S. HR small granular. Of course yes josh. Comstock did will long with a lot of other people that kind of helped keep him in the sport to the point now where he's got a different opportunity than we have say. Well I can't go to Daytona this year because I don't have enough money or Speier. You know his out the picture so for him to stay there and for us to have that little fun time with him you know. Help hopefully has been something that he's been able to reap but for for me it was you know I. I don't know it was fun. It was still racing racing and I loved it. I love it but at the same time I knew that there wasn't like I mean God forbid something happened to somebody and coach Gibbs. Hey can you do this for us or you know like David Reagan did when Kyle got hurt or somebody you know it's like okay you know you're you you know where you're at so you just Kinda you do what you do what you can't seventeen and eighteen. What was it like being on the sidelines? And not drop it. was that a difficult adjustment for you. was that as two years three. Yeah it was what seventy go by. the Yeah I mean it was in You know so I I mean I wouldn't out of a race car. I still got to do a little bit something here and there but you know so. It's not like ours testing getting Well I raced in Europe last year. Yes so I do once in seventeen and did once this year so So at least I wasn't you know I was always you know I was kind of still doing something and I wouldn't do in the testing stuff as much of course but you know and then the the deal with Fox came about and so you know it's like I'll be honest with you. I was like how in the world did it get stuff done before. I'm busier now than ever. And it's like what in the world am I doing so between the Fox stuff last year and going to Europe and all that I mean that was I mean I love what I'm doing. I'm staying busy because I know that I can't do. I can't do that again but what I'm doing right now. At this point is really exciting is really good and I enjoy that But trust me you know the first race that I didn't go to That was supposed to go to and I didn't go to and I wasn't hurt a man's like wow this is this stinks you know and but then again later and Terry told me. He said it's going to is. It'll it'll stink for a while because then you'll you'll come about later and you'll go more friends ever thought I would you know it's it's like yeah and they really didn't care much about race anyway. They just won't be afraid. You told me I had a coach helped me through this so yes I mean I want to. I'd rather I'd rather drive a race racecar than anything out there but I also enjoy doing doing different things last question. Tell me about running bowman gray this year man. Those guys don't all play out there and I would imagine to be honest with you if I'm at Bowman Gray and I'm beating around there and I've got my little modified defied and I'm wanting to make a name for myself and I got a shot at Bobby Labonte. I'm GONNA take a shot at Bobby Labonte Yeah did you. Experience what went on at Bowman Gray will be honest with you My friend Chris Williams driving a modified up there and like he's he. Can you come over and help me one day. I was like sure so my wife's US at school on a Saturday doing school stuff and so all right so I went up there a paid five dollars to get in they charged. Do you charge chef dollars so paid five dollars. Gate walked in there. Yeah so I helped Chris I like he's he's you drive it. I said all right. I'll drive so I run about ten after fifteen laps. Wow that's good so we you know. I talked to him a little bit. You know what I thought and watch me and I'll watch him. He's coming back tonight. I said I'll probably not yeah probably won't come back night. I'm only eleven miles away so I go home. I was like you know I got through eating dinner. I might go back up there. You got the bug so I pay a Winnie dollars to get in the past. Twenty or twenty five dollars saw three fights and a heck of a race. That's the best bit long all the time so then I went back three two or three more times watched you watched eight. Hundred was up there one night and you know we were just watching from the grandstands and so so went back one night and practice or one day in practice again. So may deal with. Burt Myers and Jason. You know to drive on their cars and so we did that. I did that and I'm telling you what I was like. I ain't qualified car long time. You know it's like we got one lap qualifier. It's GonNa be good right so I was watching Rob Jefferies run and You know. Watch Tim Brown. Danny Bone. Obviously Jason and Bert Frank Fleming number guy freight claiming back race in my late model Yeah just you know was it Randy Butner Know Him so I knew I knew a lot of people there. So so you want Qualified Marin qualified eighth and we had a big night for us because my best friend passed away the week before that so had his kids up there and some other friends and family and they just had a good time. I mean that was fun so anyway it was is. It's it's amaz- it's awesome. Yeah I mean. That's fifteen thousand people in the grants and the you could see them. Yeah I mean you can see their fingers you. Can you see the drinks either shirts or no shirts. You can see it all and I know one guy told me. He said he smelt. He had beer poured on he was. Somebody threw beer on on him like he's on the track and they threw beer from the beer section and he spent like beer afterwards. I mean you know I was pretty funny story but anyway I I enjoyed it I thought it was was great I'm looking forward to going back this year and doing it again because I mean it's just like you know I. I never drove a modified. My life worked at Jay Hitchcock's for a year looked at them like. Why are you doing that onerous car but anyway I it was just a lot of fun and I'm glad I did it and I want to do it again Happy Holidays everyone. And thank you for listening to the scene. UNBOUGHT podcast. This is Eric Quinn the general manager at Qa Accu- where we are extremely excited to be involved with seem ball. PODCAST and everything that Rick Steve or doing to preserve the history of NASCAR accuweather. That's what we do we help you and your business take care of the stuff that you own if you'd like to know more about Q.. Wear and what we can do for your business head over to Q.. WEAR CMS dot com that's Q.. WEAR CMS DOT com from all of us at Q.. Where thank you for listening and we hope you have the happiest of holidays the merriest of Christmases and we hope that twenty twenty is the best year you've ever had so Steve Bobby? Ah Bonnie talked in this segment of the interview. I did with him. He talked about Tony. Stewart coming on board as his teammate. At Joe Gibbs racing the gaining in nineteen ninety. I'm not into things really stood out to me about about what he said number one. He said that in essence. Tony was a good guy behind the saints. That somebody that some of us in the media didn't exactly get to see some well. I agree with that also agree that Tony was a good guy behind the scenes. Because I've built right behind the scenes and I can tell you. Yeah he's racist very competitive and okay. I'll go in line and say that he probably has anger management issues early in his career. But when you got to know him a little bit and he got to the point where he was comfortable with you it was a different person. The second thing that kind of stood out about one talk about what bobby was saying was it was very apparent. That body was trying his best to not say anything that he shouldn't uh he was trying to play it pretty straight I can understand that. And then Steve another thing that really kind of jumped out at me about this interview. He finished second to to Dale Jarrett for the Nineteen Ninety Nine Two cup championship and he talked about sitting at the banquet watching Dj except all of his accolades and and he said that he was very angry. Bread yeah because he wanted to be onstage. He had chased. Dj All year and he talked last week about the relationship that he had with DJ and trading information and when DJ was on. And be leaving. Joe Gibbs Robert Gates dates and DJ was helping him trying to open the door. A little bit. Get his foot in the door with Joe Gibbs and all that and bobby said that they talked every day about what was going on on and what they could do to get the rods that they wanted but not to ninety nine Winston Cup Championship banquet It's a different story. Yeah no I'll know that he's necessarily surly Matt at DJ. I think he was just mad at the fact that he had come up short right. He was frustrated. I think that's the way to put it. Bobby actually said that he hit gotten deals autograph back when DJ was in the Busch series. and Bobby Lewis running late model so I don't think it was again. I don't think it was anything anything in their relationships I should show. It's not personal is professional more or less because when they get on the track but let's face it things whole lot different than they are off. The track. Friends are friends ads away from the race track but on the right track. I don't know that you rice a friend maybe a little bit harder. You see that a lot so the year two thousand rolls around and Bobby Ebony is on point is he ever Steve He finished sixth in the Daytona five hundred that year. He dominates at Rockingham the next week and wins which moved him up to second in the point. Standings it goes to the top of the standings after Las Vegas which was the third race of the year and Steve. That's where he stayed for the rest of the year with the exception of just one week after the first Talladega race where he dropped to second behind Mark Martin was his year no two way it was his. I mean they might as well written him the check. You know sometime around July say but he won four races including the brick yard four hundred and the southern five hundred. Steve here's the one that Kinda blows my mind. Hey finished all but seven laps about that seven laps the entire year and he won the championship by two hundred. Sixty five points over deller now that is consistency. That consistency is exactly great. Winning the championship by that point system was all about over the course never mind. I'M NOT GONNA go. Hey wanted over the course of the full season and yes. He clenched it with a rice to go but that was his championship and he absolutely deserved. It earned it earned it and at Darlington the southern five hundred. There's more to that store than just a number in the win column. He goes out and practice to make a qualifying run on. He gets up to speed going into turn. Three and Steve. The throttle hangs wide open and he plows into the wall. And that's the very same thing that had happened to Adam. Petty and Kenny Jeannie Irwin earlier that year so that was a pretty big story. Absolutely it happened to Adam and Kenny at New Hampshire and tragic results. He told Jimmy Amy my car he said I. I think I'd better go to the Infield Care Center. Just be sure and of course he goes on to win the race. which was the big story? Bobby Bobby said that Dale earnhardt Jr team was like yeah. We got him now. You know they. They saw bobby being kind of ginger around the race car. Kind of banged up a little bit. They thought they might be able to only natural form to feel that way but bobby goes on to win race then. Bobby talked about winning the Winston Cup championship which was obviously the highlight of his career. He was the only driver ever to win both the Busch Series Championship and the Winston Cup Championship. He the and Terry are the only brothers to have won the championship. Is that right. Yeah Okay Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's the case. And then he goes to Daytona one of the next year kind of walking tall chess bowed out a little bit as he should and everything happens on the last lap of the two thousand and one Daytona I. Five hundred and and Steve. Bobby actually made the comment that that took a lot of the fun away from defendant. His wants to cup championship. Well that is certainly understandable and bobby was not the only driver if you will that way and I might add a whole lot of fans felt that way too big earnhardt heart fans just had the wind knocked out of well. I think what happened. Was the questions change from. Hey Bobby what's it like to defend your wish to cup championship. How you think your season's gone there? Were still those kinds of questions but always always always always that year. They're going to be questions about Dell earnhardt questions about safety questions about the device. Soft walls whatever. Yeah all those temp ix that you just mentioned took precedence over almost everything else. Steve if bobby eventually left Joe Gibbs racing after the two thousand and five season and after that he kinda bounced around a little bit did some time with petty enterprises and Jt Jack daugherty racing tad and Jodi and then he did some testing for a tamer to and then stave he kinda got to a place where or he actually enjoyed having a weekend off every now and then rather than having to go to the race track and be head against Walnut being as competitive as he wants had been. I can understand that because I think many drivers reach a point in their career where they think. Hey this crazy I I'm I'm never home I'm always worried about how I'm running. I don't need this grief and take a different turn so two thousand and nineteen. He Goes Bowman Gray Stadium to kind of hang out with a buddy of his. And then the buddy he is Kinda says. Hey do you wanna come back to the race track and then the BUG Kinda hits. It's in he winds up barring a car to run a modified race or two at Bowman Gray stadium leave of his since the Steve. I'm GonNa tell you. Watch the truth fans at Bowman Gray Stadium. They take their racing sears. Yes series now. Let let me ask you this. What is another just overwhelming piece of Trivia about Bowman Gray Stadium? Well I can tell you this. I've only been there one time. Relay that's right. Never had the opportunity to go except for this one time but I think one legend about Bowman Gray that I think is pretty interesting is that there was a young young man there one time who had a job selling peanuts at Bowman Gray Stadium and dreaming aiming about being a racer. Well he became a race driver and then he became a team owner and then he became a championship kinship. Let's see what's that guy's name I can come up. That say you can think of it. Richard childress children children. Children are see Richard childress got his start selling peanuts and popcorn there. But that's not the piece of Trivia that was looking for okay. Okay what you're looking for yours truly for that one Houston. Oh One. Summer drove the pace car at Bowman Bowman Gray Stadium there. I gotTa tell you was a highlight. How did the mock career well? The fact of the matter is great garrison who is the promoter. There Bowman Gray has been in his family since it began. His grandfather was Alvin. Hawkins who basically opened the place and and Greg Garrison went to church with me. Obviously I had asked gray about driving the pace car tomor to end the year before he had actually let me drive it. A couple of races aces and I rode with the regular pace car driver. Mike Norman for wanted the rice is that not and then we switched seats and I drove and Dan. Mike Rode Shotgun and then for the finale the modified races. He got out of the car and said I'm going to beat traffic. I'll see you later. Yeah so I'm driving the car solo. My very first not ever been in the pace car so that was a blast but then the next year I got to grab probably five or six Saturday nights because Mike Norman actually raised a modified and the nights that he would raise. They would call me to you drive the pace car so you talk about some experience. All right I gotTa tell this one story there was one night the track would get. VIP's come in and run the pace car and there is this one night where it was a mom and her daughter and mom was probably in her fifties or so and the daughter was probably in her twenties. Somewhere in their mom wouldn't feel any pain. You mean that mom mom was lit guys you gotta the device so and it was eight atomic year when the do sat on the grass pretty early at night. They called a caution and gun the pace car which was a brand new Camaro so it had a little bit of horsepower. Gun The pace car out from where it sat and when those tires it hit the do on that grass man I did a full on Dukes of hazzard. Slide there the Infield as trying to get onto the racetrack and Mama the whole. Oh time is just so that was one incident and then another time they called a Colin and I got to where I was going to enter the right track and got on the right track and I looked in Rivi mirror and evidently at least some of the drivers had not gotten the word that that there was a caution and they were bearing down on pretty heart gay. So that was that was interesting. I'LL BET but again I've said it before on the show. The pace car driver is the coolest job in recent. Oh that was such a coal summer and and finally Steve the Nascar Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony here in a few weeks. Joe Gibbs racing is going to be well represented with Joe Gibbs with with Tony Stewart and with Bobby Labonte. I don't know of any other induction class where anyone team has been so well represented. I don't think so inserting I. Penny enterprises has several members in. But they were in different here. Yeah it's GonNa be a big big not for that organization and joining joining. The organization will be Buddy Baker the late but he beggar. And why they're Wilson who's been on the show. Yes what L. Wilson. So yeah that's GonNa be a great night. What does it say about? Joe Gibbs racing that they have been able to produce such a phenomenal success. It it says a lot about their town no question about it but also says a lot about Joe's leadership part of being a leader is to acquire the best people to work round. You and for you and with you. I think that's a big big plus for Joe Gibbs bidding coaching all his life he knows how to handle people I mean. He knows how to recognize their talents and put good use. That's what he's done and still doing to this day. Because Joe Gibbs racing is still one of the best organizations in Nascar do this day so I think certainly that something that he dealt with when he was a coach no question the NFL. Because when you have that many people on a roster you're going to have a very very very wide array personnel of personalities of backgrounds sounds of economic backgrounds of upbringings of colleges. And all those different stories you gotta figure out a way to make all those get headed in the right direction. And he he brought that to NASCAR. Because certainly he's had drivers Tony Stewart and Kyle Busch and Denny Hamlin who all ever talking about a wide range of personalities. They're whether they're good better indifferent and weather fans Lacombe or not. You still going to have the right chemistry correct. And he's been. I won't find that for a lot of years now. Steve followed Brian Kale on instagram and twitter at speedway screens and check out his inventory at speedway T S J dot Oetzi Dot Com and again again. This week we had some exchanges between some of our twitter followers and Brian asking about some of the products that he had. I think he posted some Davey. Allison t shirts shirts and some debut and paraphernalia and some different t shirts. Yeah the remarkable inventory so again. I believe that this deal is working out for Bryan. Certainly worked out for US so again. Follow Brian on instagram and twitter at speedway screens and check out his inventory at speedway T S J dot Oetzi Dot Com. Okay Steve John K Osborne at John Osborne one on twitter asked. What driver did each of you personally dislike back over them anyway and then our second question was okay? Okay and you and I have talked about necessarily how to tactfully answer that question. I'm going to say this. I don't know that there was any one driver or personality. Finality in the sport crew chief car owner whatever. I don't know that there was any one person in the sport that I actually got to spend some time with and got to know away from the race track that I didn't like that somewhat of a difficult question to answer because the drivers that I got to know and I got to know play any. Am Yes we're very hard to dislike. I mean personally slightly. Yes they some of them. They made our lives. Hell when it came to trying take the time or brush you often you might say. Wow they just don't like that guy 'cause he just brushed me off well he may yet a the reason. We've talked a lot about Tony Stewart. He's a perfect example of what I'm talking about I had my difficulties with him professionally and one Sunday at cinema. In the back of his hauler we decided we were going to have it out. Tony's real problem was a story that was published in seen ridden in by Jeff. Owens yeah a true professional in which Tony complained about. Being in that star in overtime himself didn't like being bothered by the fans and of course he did later tried to deny all of that and that was the issue that we had basically between the paper and between between Tony and myself included so we decided to have it out in the back of the hall and we talked and talked and exchange views. And after that I had a much different view Tony even when he did things at the track that would totally uncalled for. I still had a different view. So even with Tony Stewart who I think is one of the drivers. The most people think the pressed. I'd want to have anything to do with over the years. I even with him when I got to know him. It was a different view. Found that to be true. So many driver. Yes Sir even Kyle Busch. I've gone to his face as you'd like to wear the black cat. You're the best lunch archer and he said in so many words. I'm loving every minute of it when it comes to Tony Again. I didn't get the chance to know him personally when then he first broke into the division was making some starts in the Busch series his PR team. At Joe Gibbs racing. They put together a media dinner at at Dover one year and we went to dinner but there were several media members there and I sat down the table from him that that was actually a rice. That my wife Jany went to and she went to that dinner with me and so she's talking to the guy across the table and we. He drove away from that dinner that night and she said well Tony Stewart's a great guy. I really enjoyed doing and I was like what are you talking about. Tony Stewart was into the the end of the table. She thought that Tim Sullivan. who was working with NASCAR? Pr At the time. She thought that Tim Sullivan was Tony. Stewart uh-huh what there were other media members sitting closer to him and there was one in particular who who kind of dominated the conversation that I ah that is so I didn't get the chance to know Tony. And there were two or three times where I tried to get up with him after a race after a cup race when I was doing a sidebar on him and it didn't go well where yeah I remember one time in his trial Kikinda he. He made it. He made a comment Alexander to about my size. Yeah and I will say this. I don't know that anybody in that sport has been ask pure a racer as what Tony Stewart. He has to be honest with you. I got the impression from Tony that if he had been able to strap into his rice car. Put his helmet on run the race. Get the checkered flag. Then go to his motor coach and walk away from the race. Track in never deal with the media would have been perfectly content. I think to now also say this in his defense again. I didn't get to know him personally. Those that do know him personally. Say the same thing. They say that he is a wonderful guy and has a heart of gold. Well I hope this answers the question. Both of us are thank gave the same as well. which is it's very hard to dislike drivers that you know personal yes? It's now that hard when it's just on a professional level and we brought up Tony's name I guess because he's easy obvious target here But others have been the same way. We've Benji cowboys and there are a few others now. I'd like to reverse the question. which is yet as a lot over the years who is my favorite driver and again when you know them personally? That's a very difficult question to ask. Absolutely wego professional is a little bit easier. My way of thinking about my favorite driver speaking professionally is the one that takes time time to talk to you. We give me a hard time about trying to talk Angi good solid and yes not just yes or no. We've talked also about Dale earnhardt several times on this show and the relationship that you had with him in the relationship I had with him which wasn't much uh-huh I remember one time. It was after the six hundred at Charlotte and I had been assigned the Dale Earnhardt sidebar. And I gotTa tell you it wasn't was it because I didn't like him of course respected his chievements but after a race del Earnhardt did not make it easy on reporters to talk doing absolutely not and he came out of that trailer and he and Richard childress got on their golf cart and JR roads was driving the golf cart and earnhardt looked at made may dead and in that moment the look on his face at what do you got make it quick and I froze froze in in that moment and when I froze the golf cart took off if I had had my wits about me. I would've jumped on the golf cart with them. I have actually early interviewed Dale on a dead run from Garage K.. Stand to his car outside the Roger he answered all my questions nations. No problem with that. Well those walk and Talks Got Kinda dangerous at times because at Richmond one year. We were doing the walk and talk with Rusty Wallace. Alice and there was a camera guy kind of walking backwards film and the whole thing and as we entered the garage. The cameraman fell over. It was like ten car pileup. We all fell over. And Basically Steve the next question that we had comes from Jeff Markowski Kaczynski at the underscore NASCAR JEFF on twitter. And he wanted to know how big of a cluster was the Tabasco. GO FIASCO Roy Moore. Who how much time do you? How well Steve here is what I was Zabell to clean in a nutshell? There was a ton of hot going into the nineteen. Ninety eight season with a new team owned by Bob Hampshire called international international sports management. That was the name of the rice team. Todd Bodine was going to be the driver and of course Tabasco was going to be the sponsor and this was a pretty good sponsorship. This was of course a very well known company had been around for longtime in there were models made of Todd's car there were dock Hass made of of his car. There was a todd. Bow Down Cookbook. So I wonder if Brian Calvin could come up with one of those todd. Bodine Cookbook and Steve. There was a ton eight-tonne a ton of marketing that went into that operation but but evidently there wasn't a whole lot of attention paid to the actual nuts and bolts hours to the therein. Was the problem. The performance on the track was just just pitiful and that said a lot about how the team was running when it came to competition. Marketing was fine but marketing doesn't win raises the fact of the matter areas. Todd Bodine can drive a race car. He is a good shoe. I believe that todd could have held his own. Against either of his Branca's I on the right attract so he could drive a race car. There's no doubt about that but he did fell to offer the season's first three races they didn't have points to fall back on and then Dan he qualified second and finished tenth in Atlanta but then he started to miss more rice. Yeah and that's that's a real shame because you have this fine sponsor coming in it's basketball product to everybody knows and they are pouring all kinds of money into it and they're doing what a good sponsor should do a good spots. It's a never just gives a team a check and stands around backs it up with marketing and advertising to gain the necessary attention. They really need. That's what Tabasco was doing. But the result they were so bad that all right the the basketball team became a joke. That's the only way I could put it and Dan Dera Walter's team had kinda run. Its course and western auto had gone away and then he was having some trouble with some subsequent sponsors Tim. Beverly Everley wound up buying darrow. Walter's team renamed it Tyler jet motorsports and then Tim Beverly also bought the Tabasco sponsored car from Hatcher and and so maybe this was gonna be. The turnaround thinks that that team needed Well No. Dwi had found some success driving the number one Pinzel car for Dale Earnhardt Inc but then once the park came back from his injuries. Darryl was right back in a pretty bad situation with tyler jet and with Tabasco car and Steve Hey took thirteen champions provisionals in fifteenth starts. That was that was sad. That was saying fifty stars again. I can only stress. SO-CALLED TABASCO FIASCO was not not based on Tabasco it was based on team performance and to see Darryl take thirteen champions perennials in fifteen eighteen races. It was sad at first. And then it became ludicrous so that that reflected very poorly and unfairly on Tabasco. The moral of the story is that Tabasco was a decent spots. Are they pretty much got driven sport by team. That literally wasn't up to speed. The sponsor is important but everything has to be an order absolutely. We've already mentioned this many times. When it came to marketing Tabasco was right on target and offering the money it took to be competitive? They're right on target but they're competitive results. Were just awful and that just did not reflect very well on Tabasco which was gone one year so I have a question when you work in racing like we did for so long you accumulate a lot of stuff and one person's trash winds up being another person's treasure true and I gotTa have a story to tell about milt Heflin who was my co author on the Mission Control Book. I went to Mills House while we were writing the book and everything and visited his his office and he had a lot of knickknacks from his time NASA had a Lotta souvenirs and that kind of thing on top of his bookshelf was a contractor tractor model of the Hubble Space Telescope. It is probably maybe eighteen inches dollars. Pretty good sized model on the outside of it it had were all the lines. The Power Airlines were located and all that had the solar rays e opened up the top of it and there's actually a mirror inside for the telescope and all that well I thought it was pretty cool but it was just sitting on top of milk. Shelf had been sitting there for probably twenty five years since he was the flight director for the mission that service the Hubble Space Telescope and I went out to my car car and I checked on Ebay I was GonNa say if I could get one because I just thought it was neat Steve. I found one auction where this very same contractors model had been auctioned sixteen thousand dollars and I'm amy took a screen capture of that and I sent it back to mill. He was still not impressed. It was just something that he had had for years and years and years collecting dust on bookshelf and so now every once in a while he will send me a picture of is model. He took it out his garage. His unheeded unairconditioned garage garage is junk garage and all that so it was out there for a little while. He actually hung it on his bird theater. Just I guess just to give me a heart attack so milt has a lot of NASA stuff. You and I have a lot of NASCAR stuff of all the stuff that you have. What would you consider considered to be your most treasured memento? Well you're tying to okay and it's probably going surprise you a little bit. I have a framed named five dollar. Bill that was my payment given to me by David Pearson Through have bat really wow dollars and signed it but what he wrote was the following. I did not lose this. He cheated. Well you opened the door. What was the bet? I cannot remember can you remember. Can you not tell on family oriented. Show uh-huh now. The other is going to be a little bit unusual. It is a cigarette ashtray astray trimmed in gold. Porcelain trimmed in gold and in the center of it is a painting of Buddy. Baker's nineteen nineteen seventy three Ford Grande Torino. The drove for Bud Moore. Wow Okay it's never had anything put in it at all all it's in pristine shape and I've been offered a thousand dollars for every really. Yeah wow but I don't know of anybody who can come up with that same ashtray anywhere so as hard. It is to believe an ashtray. Lease the back. Okay so you and I have done a lot of joking about. What's your tracks rookie card and offering them to our patriot? Supporters and it being an official rookie card in your garage are hanging to uncut sheets sheets of that entire set now. I gotTa tell you if I were you. Those cards would be kind of at the top of the heat they are. They are right up and very very proud of having those two uncut sheets cards and there was a time when I would thought that they would put my kids through well. That's a different in store that did happen. That's a different story all right rick. I've gone through my list. What are your most prized NASCAR possessions? Well obviously there's the same ball itself and all those newspapers thirty two years in newspapers every issue of saying ever. That would obviously be my biggest memento but I had the chance to go and cover the very first exhibition race in Japan. That was a momentous trip. Yeah I remember that that. That was an amazing adventure and when we got over there of course everything happened with Elmo and that was very sad and then it's a different things happen while we were over over there but I went into one of the gift shops outside the racetrack and I bought a couple of Sam Bass prints bright for that race from what I remember. They were marked at what would amount to be thirty dollars each but from what I understand they were supposed to be marked at what would have been three hundred dollars so I got him for pre game prize. So I got the two prints and I took them around the garage and got every driver in the field to sign him as a reporter as a journalist you're not supposed to get autographs autographs. That's normally taboo. But that far away from home and being in that kind of situation and staying at the same hotel it just hasn't had a different field so I got every driver in the field to sign that print and to this day. One of those prints is hanging in in my den re release something. So you know Dale earnhardt Jr on that Terry Labonte Jeff. Gordon Rusty Wallace who won the race. All the Japanese happened as drivers one actually signed in Japanese which was kind of cool. So yeah that's my Momento of my time in racing Hi I'm Kirk Shell Medine. You're listening to the scene vault podcast. He'll be careful going home. Use Your turn signal where your seat belts and get the hell out of the Left Lane Steve. We have another review on itunes from D Burke two thousand six and this was a really good one as well. Okay I just found this podcast about a month or so back. I had listened to the Dell junior episodes through a link on on his twitter. I can say I am almost one hundred percent caught up. You guys are awesome. I have been a NASCAR FAN since nineteen ninety seven and and have not missed a single race sense. I love the history of the sport and can never hear or learn enough. Most of the guys you have interviewed have been wild in crazier than I would have ever imagined like the Buddy parent interview. That may have been my favorite. I look forward to years of stories and history to come keep up the great work guys. I've got a challenge for you. Get Kale and day. W on the show next year. That is the challenge. Happy Holidays I I think it would be awesome if we got Kale and E W on at the same time that would be in our show or thirty seconds show together again. Thank you so much for these kind reviews. They help a lot. Obviously it's nice to hear kind words and good words about what you're doing encouragement about what you're doing but it also helps on Itunes to get placement and and encourage other people to listen so if you can't please leave us a five star rating and a written review on itunes. It does help once we get to one hundred written written reviews we will give away a copy of every NASCAR book that I have ever written and every Nascar Book that you have ever written will make for a very good Loretta. You will make for a very good library. And Steve of course did go into six printings remember. How can I forget and again listeners? This will be our final episode of the year. We will not release an episode on Christmas Day or on New Year's Day that we will be back on January eight with a pretty cool review of what we've done in two thousand and nineteen and until that time we really WanNa wish all of our our listeners. A very very happy holiday season. And thank you for being with us. Merry Christmas everybody

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NLU Podcast, Episode 173: Zac Blair and Rob Collins on Sweetens Cove, and the building of The Buck Club

No Laying Up

58:54 min | 2 years ago

NLU Podcast, Episode 173: Zac Blair and Rob Collins on Sweetens Cove, and the building of The Buck Club

"Feeder right club today. That's better than most. About in is better than most. Expecting thing. Guys welcome back to the podcast. We're gonna get to our conversation here shortly with Zach Blair and the Gulf course architect for Sweden's cove and what else will be the buck club Mr. rob Collins, we wanted to catch up with them to see what the status of the club is. A lot of people have a lot of questions about that, and we also spend a lot of time talking about Sweden's cove. Of course, a lot has been written about Sweden's cove over the last several years, but it is a pretty remarkable story about how this golf course came to be and having just left playing it all weekend. I was even more impressed the second time around in its course that a lot of people have had a lot of good things to say about over the last several years, but it wasn't really until this past trip that are really, really would say that I now get it and kind of see the genius behind it. So as best as we can, we try to talk to rob about how it came together and what is inspirations were the challenges that come within how they're going to replicate that at the buck club in Utah and y, y, Zack has employed rob to help them with the project. And help design it. So we left again, feeling pretty pretty inspired. If you're talking to these guys and hearing all they had to say this weekend and seeing seeing the actual layout on the plans for the buck clubs. So hope there's a lot of questions that are out there about this golf course that does not fully exist yet except on paper. So before we get going, I wanna make sure you guys check out Calloway's new golf lives. Home-course it's original short films and they set out to profile three unique golf locations around the country based on their stories, the communities and the characters three stops are at Edgefield, which z. laid back golf course outside Portland, they got to par three courses. They're twelve and twenty holes and distillery bar as the pro shop. And then there's Langston just about fifteen minutes from the White House, and it's known for its triumphant role in the desegregation of public golf. And lastly is wild horse golf club. It's widely considered one of the public courses in the country, and it was built by farmers in a community in Gothenburg, Nebraska. So the the cultures across the series. A remote. The cultures across the series are remarkably diverse, and the courses are United by the passion of the players who call them home a lot like the golf courses that we're gonna talk about on this podcast with Zach and rob. So visit Callaway golf dot com. Slash Gulf lives to watch each episode of golf lives. Home course. Now, let's get to the podcast ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the noling up podcast. Solly here Toronto's here. We wanted to try to catch these two gentlemen this past weekend at Sweden's cove at the ringer, we weren't able make it happen, but we're joined by the the co, architects of the buck clubs, Zach, Blair and rob Collins by saying that right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So we wanna talk a bit about, obviously we all went to the ringer at Sweden's coves Kozak I want you to. I kind of take us to y. We were all meeting at in Tennessee. This past weekend, what you in robber working on and why? Sweden's cove as played a role in this. For me, kind of I had this idea few months back a of trying to get a bunch of people that have been interested in the project wanted to learn more about it or meet other people that have that have liked the whole idea behind TV see and try and get them in one place to just kind of it was more honestly, like a networking event to to meet some people that are interested in kind of share some ideas. And you know, hopefully those guys know a couple people that are interested where they can kind of tell them what went down, what they learned. Yeah. I mean, we chose Sweden's cove. It was the perfect spot. You know, obviously rob tat awesome job out there really showcases kind of ideas and they're designed for us. So it was a perfect place to hold that. Everybody had fun those. Great. Imagine how many times you've told the story, but. A lot of people listening to this podcast, I'm sure have been to Sweden's co, but I'm sure there's also a lot that have never been there. So once you to take us there as to what it is, what it was before you turned into Sweden's cove and I can't imagine how many times you've told that story, but we love to hear it. Sure. Give you the Reader's Digest version, and if you wanna get needing additional details, I can definitely billion, but. So tat I were hired in two thousand eleven rebuild the old to quasi valley golf and country club, and there's still the Alaria blue nine of their that the day, our day opening day in two thousand fourteen Ari tech nerve. One of my partners go without stuck little signed down the road road signed, and that's kind of Armagh too. But anyway, chatting started in eleven. We finished in twelve the guys who financed the construction. Basically the siding that they didn't really wanna be with it. And so they ended up leaving it to me after a little bit of a because in period. I took it over with a group of partners in two thousand fourteen and. We got it open as far as what it was like beforehand. It was dead flat land. Quasi valley course just have, you know, really country black off course, and. Tron called twins, like Disneyland. And I mean, that's basically think that's like the best like one word description of kind of just all hold out of thin air and the middle of this random play. Just, you know, a lot of fun shots. Of different looking. Things are all my favorite stuff and architecture kind of blended up and down into one course that tweeden dove. And we've been open now almost exactly four years than the ringer was the perfect warrior aniversary worth unbelievable. We can't rob. How did you find it in the first place? I, you know, it's like the I, I call it a big adult sandbox, it's kind of the most fun. You can have your golfer, but how did you find it? How did you get set up at Sukhois valley in the first place? I really was desperate to get back into architecture of a victim of financial crisis in two thousand eight. Partner, Chet, Teague guide, discuss going into business before and the financial crisis kind of forced our hand, and we were like, screw it, let's do it. And that we went into business and. We were really looking for verse course, and I would do anything I could stand the business and I really wanted to get volved with the project of twenty, which is a nine course Gill on did actually went to wanting to a lot about it, and I got in touch with this guy who was kinda running of things is a kind of a local golfing legend in Ted, a new good. He was heavily involved with the with the swan project and to help you out hitting the ball with that. But I just heard about this new project out of the valley guys that don't squash concrete or thinking about doing something there, but you touch them and one thing led to another. Could you imagine that Sweden's cove would have turned into what it is today? It's it's unbelievable. I mean, it's. You know, just a little bit of a surreal feeling of in because I live the whole story of in the ups and downs, and there's been a lot of downs, and there's been a lot of certainty for the last six, seven years group instruction than the course you know, getting left. And then there was a gap in time where we had to take it over and you know, we went broke and two thousand fourteen right after we opened in the back. There's people from all over the country in the world there with Bazak's and all you guys last week is just it's kind of hard to to believe. I mean, after everything that we went through to get to that point, it does does blow my mind. But I will say that, you know, I was so intent on getting back into architecture and and they can name for kings island. You know. Analogy, I had my mind. I've never really said this is probably some kind of noxious that I wanted to give a Crump Ian effort to, you know, this is going to be like my valley. You know, I was going to tie out there but had to to get one in the ground. And now there's no way was gonna stop or quit, and. You know, we've somehow someway made it happen, and I knew it was good and a new that did ever saw a lot of people people would really like it, but there was so much certainty so much financial uncertainty. I didn't know if it ever would to the light of day that that's really the. The amazing thing is that we make our. What was your your initial kind of reaction or did it? How did it differ from how people described it? The first time he played ably back in March or April of this year? Yeah. So I had, you know, heard a lot about it. I had actually talked to rob and tat kind of over Twitter and seeing all the posts in a her. Andy, talk about her. Do you guys say how much you liked it? So you know, I obviously had high expectations going in, and you know when you go there, it's kind of undescribable. How much fun it is. How many options. There are on each hold the green complexes and you know all the short grass everywhere. It's. I mean, it's it's just so much fun. It's so much different than what you see at really any other courses go play that it's kind of. I mean, it's just amazing. It's really cool. You know, I had already decided to bring rob and tat on to help with the the bucket club before I went and saw Sweden's in literally like two holes in once I got out there, I was like, yeah, the right decision. So it was pretty cool will broadly speaking, we, you're on the podcast last year. We talked in some pretty good detail about the book club, but kinda wanna hear from you of those didn't maybe didn't hear that. What the book club is how you dreamed it up and kind of what maybe what the progress has been over the last year since we last discussed on the podcast. Yeah. So I mean, the whole. Idea behind the places to just bring kind of like a pure golf club to Utah. We don't really have anything that caters just strictly to golf, and we don't really have any place kind of like Sweden's or like, you know, Cal club or a whisper rocker where the kind of Gulf geeks can go nerd out and have fun. And I thought it'd be a perfect place just because there are a lot of people in Utah and around the area that appreciate that stuff. So I thought it'd be cool to do that. You know, it's been kind of a project for the last, you know, six years, I would say, and it's a picked up a lot of momentum over the last couple years and especially lately and yeah, just basically looking for some investors, some people to help out, but everyone's kind of catching the buzz and kinda ride the wave right now. So it's been really cool to to see the progress, and hopefully we can get something going here shortly for those that haven't seen either. Place. Sweden's cove sits pretty much the bottom of valley in the buck club is very mountainous terrain. So very different terrains. But rob, I wanna know what you thought of what would become Sweden's the first time you kind of Saul that land how that went? Well, I came called the, hey, Robert, but go out there and check this place down. We went out there were walking around and there was this old yet down there with a bunch of broken down equipment, and you know, we were just looking at the dead flat piece of ground with the open concrete ditch running down the middle of seven, eight. And I've thought, what in the hell are you doing with your life? You lose her. This, this is not. I mean, this is worst. You gotta start. There's a problem and it was, you know, Tatton nice said have said this. I mean, it was be worse golf course I've ever saying, and that's not hyperbolic stayed investors, but it was, and but we got the job in the great thing about it was is it was a blank slate and I don't know that. I mean we could not. We got so lucky with our client read Thomas. I mean, he just, he believed in and he just was like, you know, he let us go out there and do that. I mean, there's a lot of guys who are more accomplished, you know, have a much bigger resume than us for, you know, for a project that wouldn't get turned loose like that. So we were really, really lucky to have Emily as in intern, it's loose and we have some speed. Stored narrowly, talented people helping, and you know the thing, you know, Sweden came out of that, but it wasn't what. Tub beginning that and going from that kind of location to start with to a place like the buck club or they opposite ends of the spectrum. Oh, totally. I mean, you look at the land of the bug bug and you're just raking out at the possibilities. I mean, the the, the whole that we call the Megara day. And I mean the first time we were out there last year at the end of October. I mean, it's obvious back would say the same thing that is it just got the huge kicker on the right and there's like this perfect clip where you can build a bunker. You have to do anything in of it's just tailor made for this all world Rene. I mean, you idiot to not build a build a good Redan there. So thrilling to be involved with this project, the place that had this much potential that it is got so much potential. Just got goosebumps thinking about it. I guess question for each of you, rob. What have you learned from Zach or what are you most impressed with. Bazak's coming from a professional golf background. And then conversely, Zach, what have you learned from rob as this process has gone along? Well, somebody asked me a question the other day, kind of how I work and I'll try your question drawn out about saying that back and I of his oftentimes feels like we're kind of hearing brain on this because we're basically minding the same well of information of the same pool of information. We liked the same stuff where you know coming from the same place like tackled throw out and I did every single time. I'm like, wow, that's a phenomenal idea. Let's do it. And so we're kind of we're in the same Ed space, and I have learned. From sack. Listen to him. Talk about how you know different ways to challenge. You know, the tour player in in the in the better player in it kinda solidified my belief that one thing, I don't think a lot of modern forces get right is that the dynamic of how playability versus penalty works? And I have all four, very, very playable course tweeden's cove is a as you guys know. Very, very playable off course, but there you can get a check. I mean, you get in the wrong position and I think that's a really important dynamic that you have to maintain. I mean, that's where the thrill of golf comes into the thrill of challenging that hazard her challenging contour and being successful. And if you're not successful paying the price. So he goes in in the way he looks. Things in his belief that you know, you need to have that dynamic, his strengthen. You know that that believe in me, and I think that that's a place for exact really excelled because he could hit you. The rest of can't hit for maybe early and you know he thinks about things and understand how you can challenge. You know, the really elite player, but at the same time, give other people at the chance and think that's going to be a really cool dynamic at the book club. Zack going to you, what what have you learned from rob through this process? All I would say first off. You know, originally when I had this idea, you know the first couple years I had kind of said, hey, I'm going to do this thing on my own. We're not gonna hire an architect, you know, we don't. We don't need one, you know, I can do this myself and I feel like I could have done it myself. But after talking to rob, you know, via Twitter, like that's literally how this started. You know, I was asking him ideas and you know, asking him what he thought and you know, just random like chats on Twitter, like every couple of weeks. And and then hearing about Sweden's cove from people that you know, I trusted their opinions. I was like, dude, we need to get. We need to get these guys out here and at least see what they think meet them. And I would say within like thirty minutes of needing those guys and talking to rob and getting on the on the site walking around, I was like, okay, like. Screw my of like doing it by myself. Like this guy is like the guy I want to bring in and he mentioned it, you know, we, we think very, we think very similarly, we have a lot of ideas that have saying, and, and like he said, when I say something and he's like, man, that's a good idea. He does the exact same thing like every time he we talk and we talk about this every single day. So it's pretty cool to have somebody like that. We have the same design philosophies about making courses playable and you know, making fun enough for the average golfer, but hard enough for players that are good. And I mean, that's that's the thing that Utah for sure is definitely missing. It's missing in a lot more places than Utah, but we have nothing even on the same level as something like Sweden's cove. And if we can build something like that, eighteen holes or how. However, what we're whatever we're gonna do out at TV see, like it's gonna be a home run, and people are going to travel from all over the world to come play it like they do Sweden. So I'm very proud like to have rob and tat on board, and it's been really cool working within. And I mean, you know, rob talked about how he may. You know how Sweden's was kind of his version of pine valley with, you know, compared to Crump and how it was kind of his brainchild and he, he literally died on property working on it, trying to make that happen. And you know, that's kind of what we've done with TV see, it's something that we do everyday talk about all the time and you know, we've got so much blood sweat and tears into this thing in this whole design process that I think it's gonna really blow people away with, you know, when it's finished when they see it. Back on some back with saying right there in, you know, that is. I mentioned, this is act when I was in Utah. I was fortunate, it's Weeden code. We, I got a protest in like July two thousand ten, and there was kind of this relationship with the client that didn't formalize for like eight months. So I had like eight months to dream about it. And each hole tweeden's with your like four or five interational in like the first versions of the whole adult were like really good. You know, in hindsight for weren't anywhere near as good as what turned out in that sort of baking process that it went through really made help make wings what it is. It gave me time. It gave cat nighttime to kind of formulate full on plan. And in the end result would was much better in in, you know, I'm sure that which has in some respects, the TV was, you know, already built, and we were doing this podcast from the porch of the clubhouse, but the time that it's taken to to go through things and each time actors not an idea, it's it's infinitesimally better. You know, some here just stink remotely to keep doing better, better better. And now we're finally at a place where I, I really think we have a plan that mature in his kinda gone through the process and gone through the necessary revisions. I mean, it's like. In writing a book over guard him, and you know, you don't go with your updrafts. I mean, this is the bully fake concept and. Money. I mean, it will gonna kill it. I mean, I'm not joking. I said, I walked away from this weekend. Just feel in inspired, like I think Zack when we talked last fall. I mean you had ideas for whole. You had sketches. You knew kind of what you wanted to do, but is it fair to say like you didn't have this concept that currently exists in? If I'm right in, if I'm right in saying all eighteen holes in even some bonus holes are laid out and like set in stone for what you guys are going to do, is that right? Yeah, yeah, we have like a, you know, a championship style routing that you can go play, eighteen holes. We also have you know some some fun holes that kind of you can play if you want you can. You can kind of go do whatever you want. It's idea that we have right now with this place is is pretty outrageous. You know, we got like twenty two green complexes, a ton of fairway dig putting surfaces and you know, you can go play it. Like I said, like normal eighteen hole golf course. Or, you know, if it's not busy, go out there and kind of treat it like a big putting green and just go play to whatever holy want. And that's one cool thing that they offer out Sweden's cove and it's just something you don't see that often. And it's something that I think takes a lot of a lot of thought and a lot of, you know, it takes a lot of thought to pull something like that off. Like rob was saying. You know, this thing has gone through the ringer and just, you know, iterating after ration- changed gotten better and kinda matured to where it is now and it. You know, it's at the point now where you know if we can get some funding, you know, we're gonna have one of the best golf courses in the world which will be fun. As far as once you get that phoning locked up when you do get that funding lock to hub, what do you envision the membership model or whether it'd be semi private or private or kind of English Scottish style club setup? Describe that for us. Yeah, you know, the one thing that I've always wanted, I've always wanted a great national and international number show. We wanted at a price point that is extremely do little for people all around the world all around the country to come in and show this place off to their friends. You know, bring groups out, kind of like they do Sweden's cove and have this course, you know, ready to play for for a bunch of people and just so everyone can come in and have fun. So I guess to answer your question, you know, looking for big national membership and hopefully in a hopefully people will be down for that and come out and support and join the club and bring a bunch of their friends and go have fun. So you will need a member invited out to play any unaccompanied rates or anything that's going to kind of follow the sandhills model or or Terry d. Mato or anything like that. Yeah, you know the sandhills model. I'm a little familiar with it. Not not so much. I'm not as familiar with Terry modal, but you know, we definitely want to offer. You know an option for people to come play it, and that's how you get a good national membership, I think, is by allowing some sort of access for people to get out there and play it because I think it's gonna be type of place where if you can go out and play it or if you get the chance to go and play it, you're definitely gonna leave being like, okay, how do I make this word like? This is something that I need to have work. So yeah, definitely think you'll, you'll have the ability to see it play it and hopefully wanna join right after playing the devil's advocate role here in limited take the role of online hater which I'm sure there are at least some on Twitter that kinda very skeptical about about this coming together, a lot of people, some of the reaction that I get is like a what you wear in their, what had is that it's the buck club, where's that? Well, it's gonna be in Utah because you have an entire merchandise line every piece of sweat. You could imagine. Exists for this golf course that does not yet exist. What is the purpose? I guess, of all of the extracurricular stuff that has come with this project or with the book club gear and all of the all of the hype? What is what? Is that? What? What are you doing that for and what's that doing for the buck club? Well, for me, you know, I kinda just went in saying like, okay, I have this idea. I really think it's gonna work, but I don't have the money to pull something like this off by myself. How can I, you know, spread the word and get this idea out there for somebody that you know, hopefully falls in love with it. And my idea was like, let's like make this brand and push this stuff out there. Get people talking about it, give people wearing it, get people, loving this idea, and you know, that's kind of just what I did. I started off with hats and you know the first couple, I guess, or I. Year two when when I was selling this stuff, I think there were a lot more haters a lot more people that were very skeptical of this idea like, oh my God, like who would wear a shirt or a hat from a course that doesn't exist. But I would say like now, now that ideas pretty laughable to think at, you know, if people coming up to us all the time being like, where can I buy this hat? Where can I buy the shirt? You know how, how do I get in on this? Tell me more about it and it's been kind of this guerilla marketing effort. Just getting the word out there and kind of casting this huge net out in the golfing world. Just hopefully somebody bites catches on, falls in love with it and wants to be a part of it Zac. What's the status of the land that you have out in Utah right now? Do you have it give it purchase option on it? How's that work? Yeah, working on it right now. One of the partners came out to the ringer. Had a great time and kind of, I think it was a real eye opening experience for him to kind of really fully realize like, wow, this isn't just like some kids idea with a couple of friends from Utah. You know, he saw sixty plus people from around the world come out and support this event for a golf course that doesn't exist and. Hundreds of people who have, you know who were on a waiting list. I mean, it was an unbelievable respond. Yeah. So. So I think we're gonna get in some serious conversations in the next few days with the landowners and hopefully we can lock something up. And Mike, we said, you're still looking for people to come help out, jump on board and you know, I think we have a real unique opportunity offering something that not too many places can offer a, you know, getting in kind of on the ground level and being involved in a process of building joining a club that really has a chance to be one of the more special projects in the last, you know, twenty to thirty years of golf and Robbie touch on this a little bit. And Zach, you're next on this because you've done a basically shitload of travel around the world to learn from a lot of different places. But Robin, we talked some about what your inspirations were for Sweden's cove kind of some of those courses. But is there anything else you're drawing inspiration for in the building of the buck club that you've seen. That that can I share of, you know, mutual amenity for national place. In the old course. I mean, there's nothing Zach. What agree that there's a whole lot of the course in whole lot of national, none of baked into the buck club. One of the things that they will be really cool about how that all shake out in the field. You know. That contest. I kind of thing. Then you may not look at something and go, oh, that's like, you know, the whole the old course or that's like, you know, number three national. There's there's going to be like little bits and pieces of it kind of expressed in a different and unique way. It's mainly taking underlying lessons from those those types of places in in a pine then to the amazing property that we've identified and all this time coming up with this plant on ANZAC wear. What else have you seen that just kind of like has really sat with you really resonated with you or anything. Maybe you've seen the last year that is changed what you thought you might do with the book club? You know, for me. It's just I've had the opportunity in been lucky enough to travel play the best golf courses around the world. And my idea kind of from the get-go was to go to these places and see what makes them great. See what makes these holes grade or see what makes these clubs the way they are in just kind of cherry pick ideas in in philosophies from each place and throw them all into one huge pile and just make this this amazing club. And as far as the golf course, I would say, you know our trip down to Australia, you know, going over to Scotland one more time and just seeing how amazing like short grasses has really been pumped into TV see over the last couple of months of just like, you know, kind of taken some bunkers out around the greens and in. You know, making it more short dress, just giving people more options in some different play ability that they won't see necessarily too many places in the states. I think that's kind of one thing that will be definite tone setter in something that sets it apart from other clubs, and it's gonna be really cool to see how shakes out Zack on that on that subject from an agronomy perspective, what kind of grass do you have out in Utah. And can you get it as nippy and his firm as you need to to play like you want it to? Yeah, I think a big thing for me in raw and you know, some other people that are involved is definitely like play ability of the golf course. You know, you have all these ideas and, and you want him to play a certain way. And in order to do that, you know, we're not blessed with, you know, being on being on some like sand dunes, like in San hills or on the the coast of somewhere with some real sandy property. We're gonna have to, you know, spend some money and and bring in some sand into sand cap, the place more and and making it making sure we can get it firm and fast because that's kind of an underlying. Principle that needs to happen in order for the course to play well, because we want we want it to play firm and fast. And as far as the grass goes, I think we're going to have to do some testing and see what works. But as far as I'm concerned, you know, there are places in Utah that you can get really firm and fast, and I'm excited to see kind of what route we go with that. And I think people will be pretty happy when they see it finished having spent no four or five full days at Sweden's. What's your favorite whole out there for me, you know, five is pretty ridiculous. I think that's one of the five and seven. I would say are two of the best short par fours in the entire world. Like describe him for us. Five cow, you know five. How long has five rob, like three like like two eighty three from the tip to ninety. I'm like that like what? The way we were playing, we played it a lot this weekend from like kinda fun playing for Mike to forty to fifty seventy five and all these long we played it. Weekend. So it's under three hundred, big fairway. But like you know, you're always going for the green. It seems like, and there's one big giant, you know, not giant. There's one bunker right in the middle of the green basically that the green rats around it and the greens built-up, you know, ten feet, probably eight to ten feet falls off in all directions and the internal contours on the green that kind of let you, you know, allow you to play balls to the right side of the green that will feed around the bunker kind of these to these back left pins. You know, it's pretty. It's a pretty brilliant whole. It's like so easy until you screw up. And then it's just like disasters irking. There. Like we, we, we put a couple of pins kind of laughed this week over this bunker that were so nasty. Like, I think a couple of people died in the bunker. There've been so many good ojection videos showing up on Witter. I was long a couple of Peter Smith and Tim Hart June. That's amazing injection ever. Yeah. I mean, it's just such a cool whole, and like I said, it's just like it's so easy. It's like, you know, the greens, the Green's pretty big, how many square feet is that like eight or not, you know, like eight thousand square feet probably. Like that. I mean, a lot of lot of room to hit your ball, but the second you miss, it's just like the second you miss on that whole you. You kind of have to risk making like a double bogey if you wanna make apar-, if that makes sense. And that's, that's one. That's one thing that I've kind of told like rob in this whole design process. Like that's the type of stuff you want. You want options and you want holes to be score -able. But when somebody screws up and gets aggressive in Nissen wrong spot or your tries to hit a miracle shot, if they don't pull it off, you know, you kinda wanna punched in the face and that that's kind of a whole like that. And then seven is another whole probably like three thirty drivable little, teeny green. It's kind of like I would say got has some Pinehurst number two in it like a like a bowl turned over falls off. On all sides. And I mean, I don't know if I've ever seen like so many people get jetted as I saw. Personally, I that whole like haunts my dreams. I. I don't think I, I figured I'd probably play that whole fifty or sixty times now I don't think I've ever figured out how to play it correctly. I've gone. I've gone seventy yards left that gone down the the, the Jason fairway on the right side. I've I've hit an eight iron off the tee, hit driver over the green. It's like I been searching and searching and searching and there's just there's like, no, there's no recipe for it. You just gotta sack up and hit two good shots. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly the perfect way to describe that. You could hit nine. Petit hit driver, you know, whatever you do. You just have to kind of like say, okay, I'm gonna hit it in the middle or in the middle front or the middle back wherever the pin is and just try and make a putt because that whole anytime the pin is not in the center of the grain, anytime it's around the sides, the edges. If you try and take it on and you miss you, you know you you, you're staring like double or triple in the face. You can just hit it back and forth all day. But if you went into that whole saying like, okay, I'm gonna hit driver down the right and have a seventy are shot or sixty ARD shot. And I'm just gonna hit it to the middle of the grain. I would say you'd make par like ninety five to ninety nine percent of the time if you hit a decent shot, if you. Yeah, yeah. But that whole is so tempting to go for the pin. You know you have such a short shot doesn't look as intimidating as it is. It really is the second. You go forward miss. You just kind of get a ejected. That's perfect of. That's what you want in golf though, you know, and that's what we wanna do at TB see is and that whole that whole is surrounded the poll way short grass around the entire whole. There's no greenside bunkering there is the, you know, there is the big bunkers short left like in the fairway, but that whole you just are presented with so many options. And you know, you can drive the green and make eagle or you can, you know, try and drive the green and make a seven. So it's pretty cool. I was shocked this weekend, how many people, but four-club. Browned competition, and I was shocked at hunting people scored better during the four club competition than they did with a full bag. It was just like taking, you know, making them do a certain thing and commit in committing to it instead of instead of trying to decipher how to play it and then not being committed to shot and of solid you. You were blown away at how well you played with the foreclosure. Might just be a foreclosure player. It works so well, it Sweden's. I mean, it is kind of like I mean, at one point I had to decide between hitting driver into a par five or a nine iron with a club. Like. Head to punch a driver and like try to use the slope to kill it into the into the Bank and executed that one that more joy than I ever would have experienced if I'd hit like this six earned that are probably needed to. So one thing you guys introduced this weekend to for our competition. So for the ringer sixty, people are playing in this event, and we did like all kinds of different formats Stableford, you know, four club challenge team event, but I've never seen this where you introduced to different pins in the Stableford points were different. If you went for the colored flags, it was more points than the easy pins and for a golf course already presents just a million options. I was overwhelmed with the option three different times. The pin the front pin on one as this is the hardest pin I've ever seen, and I ended up getting goaded into going for it all three times that how did that process come together coming up with that format. For me, you know, I went in thinking like Sweden's has these very unique green complexes that there's a lot of really easy tens like in bowls. And then there's a lot of pins that are on totally flat parts of the green, but are like surrounded by death. And I was like, this this course would present so well with multiple pins out there. 'cause we were only there for two days and we played golf, basically sun up till sundown both days, but at a truly great golf course and a place like Sweden's cove, you have to keep playing it over and over to really see different things. Every time you play it, you learn new things or see different stuff. So I thought it'd be a cool way to kind of show the course off even better than it shows off with one ten. And I think people really, really like loved that. Format it was really pool. And I mean, that's, that's another thing TV see. I think we should do that like a couple times a week, have multiple pins out there. The greens are so big idea behind him his to allow so much variety that it's pretty fun to go do something like that. It was really cool going around with people who had never played the course before in like a number four. The front pin on Saturday was I think it was like a hundred yards between three yards hundred between the flag fly. Then he was like eighty three. And then the back ones like one seventy, something like that and of rob. What's I mean? What was it? Like? I guess having you know, sixty people or so people come in from pretty much everywhere to play this golf course after all you guys have been through and could you've ever really pictured pictured Sweden's cove becoming what it has become that was the biggest real, pretty much shitting grin on the whole weekend. I mean back that there were people there that having the best time enjoying the golf course and the way that you know, that tended to be joy with unbelievable thrill for me in, you know, the games attack panther bike came up with where we're so clever and so much fun. I mean, I've been, I've played golf course tons of time than Patrick plated, like thousand times. And like I was talking to Patrick. I mean, we, we were seeing shots and departs in different things that we've never experienced before because we were like playing from one pin. Right from one t to pin that we've never seen that pin that was one that front Lebanon. I've never seen that before in, you know, I shot the worst round probably jot their maybe maybe ever in the stable format because I was being aggressive on every single one. I just I just getting addicted on every single all in the more I gotta check the more. I was like, gotta go for it because I'm dope more out of it. I gotta get my point. You know, that was like a really fun dynamic. I just the whole thing was the most one I've ever had off. I just can't thank enough and all you guys and everybody who came together. It was. It was so fun. I mean, I think the quote of the weekend for me was somebody said, what? What happened? What's the disaster plan? If something happens to go Twitter, you know, like a catastrophic event like. Pretty much everybody was to was going to be on that was it was just amazing heaven, everybody out there just it was incredible, rob when you're designing a whole, like like number four, like the green out there. Number four. At any point where you did anybody pressure you to soften it or tell you that you were absolutely insane. And then and and and be has not. Have you brought that mentality? Anything that you learned from that into the buck club where you now you're like, all right. People told me I was insane, and then I built it. And now everybody's like, oh, this, this whole awesome. You kind of bring that confidence. It's almost like an irrational confidence to be clear. You are insane, but like the right, just the right amount. No, absolutely. I mean, I totally agree with with y'all. There's definitely touch vanity up there out of Lawrence have the English rider had the best line ever. The first time he saw. He's like, what he hell? Rob, I've seen the Himalayas grain, but never on the Gulf Coast. If so, you know, I will totally concede that this before that I had, you know, several sleepless nights during construction in particular when we were building number three hours like os or we've, we've gone overboard. You know, it's. You know, we were trying to touch the line, but not job passed, and you have to give a ton of credit attend my partner in the finish work. He did it. Absolutely amazing job benching those grains though that those, you know so that they were, they maintained their playability like all of our. All of our inability is are really subtle. So you know a lot of the the contours outside the grain kind of on the edges of the greater big transitions. But once you're in the right spot, you know you're going to be okay, and you can go from one part of the grain to the neck and most of the time stay on a few to hit a good shot. You'll be rewarded. So it maintains its playability because of in large part because it has killed. But also because there was a ton of attention to detail made just in the regular shaping process and the construction process to make sure that we didn't come untethered and just just blow to way into the third. I mean, we had to keep it grounded and then the fundamentals of good architecture that we were definitely trying to push the envelope. And you know, there was a couple of times I was a little nervous. I mean, I was a little nervous on four. Gus, do the guy that shaped the the whole, the sixth grade he had built in you, and I were like, really on the same page at that point and. And we was just a bunch of dirt out there and we kind of painted the outline of the grain kind of knew where it was going to go out at some basic ideas and he's like rob saying, just go fucking crazy here. Okay, good. Go for it man. And in in that, that's what came out, you know in, and that's what you have to do with like really talented people like us and and, and other people, you know, you have to get them to buy into the vision in it. You have to trust them and understood. He no knows long as they're working in in a box that part of the overall vision that you won't. You just let those guys go in ninety. They're still working in that. Drawing from the same well information that you're gone from, you know, you're ninety nine percent of the time. You're gonna get a great result and it's more fun for goods to, you know, because you've got read them and they can have fun. And if there's something that's not right, I mean, you know, you change it like number four print than I thought that the back of the grain during construction with tooth aveer in there weren't enough in a Larry then in cusses like rob come on streets like twenty thousand square feet. And I'm like, no, man. We got to mellow it out in a couple of spots. And those are like the little changes the little details that you make, you know everything was like ninety nine percent. Perfect. We just needed to like we could just touch and we did, and then tat came in and like this Herby grain and now clay. Like one of the coolest grains I've ever say it's similar to a native American serpent now nding areo ground than any. Any golf course foreseen compare it more to that than a golf course. It's awesome. It's like my favorite all in the world. Never. Number four. Your favorite? Tron. I, yeah. I mean, I love five, but, but for totally here because I love hearing people say their favorite hole and building a lot of times, like one of my favorite things, you know, people always say different home, and I think that's really cool. I think it's a different hole every time I've played it. I mean, for some reason I'd love to especially that bottom bottom bullpen. There onto five is always incredible fun, but eight when specially when you put the pin right there in the middle of the beer, it's there that one's absolute blast like, and that's, that's what's cool at one about two pins at once we did is like that fourth green face like five greens. In one. I mean, it's you can make twenty different golf holes out of one Gulf own for a place that's only nine holes. I think along that along with all the cross country, which we haven't really even talked about my favorite holes. One of the cross country don't get into the. And that's just kind of what would that makes this place just this, like what you're saying this huge sandbox is is you know, you need the very ability when you have a nine really take it to the next level and that's what you guys done. But if we're sitting here it's it's October twenty second twenty eighteen. I hope like forty years. In the annals, somebody will uncover this podcast and hear this about the building of the buck club, but you're gonna answer it. Now, what is a realistic expectation for shovels going in the ground at the buck club date wise hurry might think win. Snow melts in two thousand nineteen. Really. Yeah. I mean, we've got a lot of momentum right now. A couple of the partners of the land or lot more on board. I think after seeing what's been going on the last little while coming out to the ringer and just, you know, a lot of a lot of people getting just kind of offered their word just said that they want it to happen and that they'll be willing to kind of sack up and do what they need to do. So we've had a a lot of positive behind this thing, so we're ready, get it rolling Zach, how do you balance your golf career with that timeline or just with with the buck love in general, how especially may lose may I next year shovels in the ground? You've got you gotta that's kinda you're on the web toured primarily next year. That's gonna your big time of the year. How do you, how do you square those two things? Yeah, just got to play better. I guess I can take more time to get this thing done at the end of the day. You know something like this is bigger than some some. Spiga than golf, almost, you know, is kind of a chance to build something that not a lot of people get to do. You know, there's a lot of great golfers in the world. There's probably fewer really unbelievable places at least in America. So it's a, it's a cool opportunity for sure. What on the financial front, how much do you need? How close are you, what? What else do you need on the monetary front to really push this thing pushes through one, you know, we definitely need to when need to lock this thing up with the with the partners at the land. See what we can do there, which I think we're on the right track and they're they're few different options. We either need somebody super get to come in and fall in love with the project and and wanna do something like this, or we need kind of a lot of people to step up and get involved founding members and stuff like that. But we've had, we've had both. Sides of that kind of reach out and show interest. So now we sleep people to step up. Last thing once you once you plug, we'll what you got going on the online auction here, what's up for bid and what? What all that is going towards? Yeah. So we got this online auction going on. We got some rounds. It's really good clubs around the world. I got some pretty unique one of a kind pieces of artwork and some some that were specially made for the event. You know some irons that are custom for anybody who wins them. But all of that stuff is going to kinda the planning to build and the things that we need to kind of get in place as far as like, you know, rob tab. Did this master plan kind of for free or did it before they got paid, you know, which isn't, you know, masterplans aren't cheap, stuff like that for. You know that I think you need to be able to show people serious investors and stuff like that. So that stuff's going to pay rob and tad future site visits, bringing people out and just kind of planning development to make this thing actually happened. Last question would what hole for each of you guys would hold? Are you most excited about? It's on the current current plan. I mean, for me, it's it sounds crazy. Literally every single old. I'm not. No, not letting you hook that one hole one hole. I'm pretty excited to see. Number seven, to be honest. It's this big Cape style whole. The green kind of hangs out over the edge of this cliff kind of three sides of the green falloff way down this mountain. It's like three ninety, but you can drive it kinda everything that lands in like ju sixty to seventy. Area gets this massive kick in goes towards the green, but at the same time, if you try and bite off more than you can handle, it could probably like get lost in the sauce out there for sure rub. What about you? Well, I'll I'll answer to two different holes. One for me at one I know that tad is like over the moon excited about shaping the well grain. There's a, there's a grain that inspired by McKinley famous. Well. Our Arbor Shen gonna be probably pushing an acre inside. I mean, it's going to be like twice as big as the the big rain tweeden and it goes be so an agent wild. I mean, it's going to be close to forty thousand square feet and it's just gonna be cascading. This hill. It's just gonna be utterly dropping, but when it's done in one of the coolest sold an entire world for me, I was gonna say seven. I think that's a really good one. Number nine, the little short whole kind of encapsulates a lot of the second I've been talking about. There's a little little downhill shot. We're going to build this big baranca like take LA country club or something like that. You know, come natural drainage wash area in this short whole kind of fired by the one at national sits in the middle of the baranca like Musset Yampa. You know, there's. Darlie bunkers that are kinda crawling up out of the Barranca you know, rolling into the green and then right behind the the green is number number ten t. in all this island in the Brank and in back and are real sticklers about transitions. Goff holes thing that we both pay a lot of attention to like really good forces. They like nail. The transitions between hold they. It's like, go to makes you wanna go crazy and like that. That has like maybe the coolest transition on the golf course. Plus it's got the chance of like Vernier they go hole in one. If you can step up, hit the great shot for it's going to be like total ejection city. If you do. You don't if the shot this kinda got all the dynamics, I think that it's going to be amazing speaking for both of us using some words of wisdom that I just learned today. I think I let me say just just go fucking nuts. Guys. Just go do it. So we're excited. Congratulations on great week, Zack in rob, and for all you guys are done and everything you're doing to get this project off the ground. A lot of people think it's, it might not happen, but I left feeling pretty motivated and inspired to do anything I can to make it happen. It sounds like it's going to be a real special place in the Gulf world. So thank you guys for taking the time to walk us through it and forgiveness. A great weekend. Gulf. Thanks Royer support God, right? I'm going out to thank you guys recant it. You know we to work on those handicaps. Next year won the gross man. It wasn't even. You can't sandbag when you win it. Grow slowly took all the big toys. Listen, listen all the ones that you'd let me take home and. Kevin kisses on record as saying, I'm the worst six handicapped that's ever walked the face of the earth. The place just inspires good play. Just let me say it. So. It really does. Thanks for the time chairs. Jisr. Peter Wright club today. That's. Better than most. About him better than most. Expecting things.

Sweden Mr. rob Collins golf buck club Utah Partner Zach Blair greens Twitter Zack Portland Bazak Tennessee Gothenburg Crump Ian Nebraska Toronto Calloway Langston Solly
The growing evidence that the President of the United States is a criminal

All In with Chris Hayes

44:53 min | 1 year ago

The growing evidence that the President of the United States is a criminal

"This episode is brought to you by Cox. We can't do a TV from Cox. You can find all your favorites, all in one place, have the YouTube, you Bet El what about that? Netflix thing net Netflix, too. And although superhero movies, contour has all the latest titles on demand. Oh my grandkids love that big green guy, though. I prefer the one with the hammer myself. Okay. I think we're done here now. Get all your favorite apps shows and movies, right? On contour TV from Cox. Tonight on all in if he were any other person in the United States pay would be Terry d- out in handcuffs as a president returns from Europe and the Democrats prepare hearings on the motor report. If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime. We would have set sail tonight, the plane evidence that the president of the United States is a criminal. So the vote. Feeling through. Plus, we are in worse shape for a recession now than things that slowed down with bad job, numbers, and another trade war looming Robert Reich on the growing warning signs of recession then more clear evidence that Republicans were rigging elections in North Carolina. While yesterday was a big day for Joe Biden and the rest of the twenty twenty field and why the current president today? Bush shouting at the moon, you'll have to explain that. That sounds tough when all end starts right now. Good evening from New York, I'm Chris, as the president of these United States Ramic campaign in two thousand sixteen four that office whose unofficial slogan was locker up. It was both his main argument against his opponent and a rallying cry on the campaign trail with Trump fans putting Hillary for prison on t shirts and bumper stickers and yard signs. The narrative of Hillary Clinton's supposed criminality was advanced with an assist from the FBI director in the mainstream press by Russian trolls disrupting the election and principally by Trump TV. Welcome to Hannity. Tonight. Hillary clinton. Follow my words, the media won't say she should be in jail, not on the campaign trail. It's about time. Somebody said it on the jail in the jail, not the trail rhymes, even better than locker up that Sean Hannity saying that now two and a half years later, that narrative is not going away just ahead. This is serious. It just leads Sean Hannity show this week on Monday night of this week that was his top story about Hillary should be a jail. And these days when the president holds political rallies. The crowd still breaks out into its favorite champ. Normal stuff locker her up in two thousand nineteen at a presidential rally that was just over two weeks ago. But now well now we've come to the point that the president this president is very upset that the speaker of the house, Nancy Pelosi looking at all the evidence seems to have concluded that he's a criminal who should face prosecution and prison time, and the president's good pal. Sean Hannity is positively shocked that she would suggest jailing a political opponent. Speaker Pelosi now, apparently telling senior democrat she'd like to see Trump behind bars. Based on. No actual crime. She wants a political opponent locked up in prison. That happens in banana republics beyond despicable behavior. And by the way, they would literally turn it many ways the USA into a country, we no longer recognize the best part is that he uses locked up with no hint of irony. Now, I will say that the term or welling gets thrown away, too much. But it really is earned in this case from nineteen eighty four. The past was alterable, the past never have been altered Oshii was a war with East Asia Oceania had always been at war with East Asia. Then there's Hannity's claim and better than there. The president committed and I quote him here. No actual crimes. In fact, there's overwhelming evidence that the president unlike Hillary Clinton has committed a whole bunch of crimes. I mean, let's remember this thing he was affected named as an unindicted co-conspirator individual one in the illegal campaign finance game that he according to filings. Federal court directed and coordinated with his former fixer, Michael Kohn, who is now serving a federal prison sentence in part for that crime. That's before we even get to the mode. Reporter volume two of that four hundred and forty eight page report lays out almost a dozen different instances in which the president attempted to obstruct Justice, a crime for which a thousand former federal prosecutors say, he would have been charged if he were not the sitting president, and if you're wondering what obstruction of Justice? Looks like or sounds like how about the president's personal attorney calling up the lawyer for cooperating witness to put the squeeze on him and dangle a potential pardon. That is pretty obviously, what was going on in the voice mail left by John Dowd, for Michael Flynn's attorney, which Muller included his report. But now we have the audio. This is John again. Maybe a sympathetic. I understand your situation and let me see here. Here. Stay in startup parents. If you have. If he's all right. You could be. With. Understand that you can't joint such. If the other hand. Commission implicates the president. Then we've got a massive security issue or maybe some serious. I don't know some as you got to. That's a deal with of those. So. You know then. You know, we need sometime has. For the sake of. All all can without you having to give up any. Competent. So. And if it's a former. Remember what we've always said of. Feeling to inflame. Oh, that's nice. Let me know. And. I appreciate your listening and taking into lifestyle. I still. The case against president John MSNBC legal analyst mcquaid attorney who will be testifying before the House Judiciary committee on Monday, and Carolina. Also, former US attorney, and former Superior Court Judge Barbara we, we knew basically, what was in that voice mail. We had a transcript abbreviated transcript than full transcript, but listening to it as someone who has been a prosecutor is running us attorney's office. Like what does that sound like to you? Yeah. You know, I think it is far more compelling to be able to listen to a recording like that. Then to just read the dry words on a page because you can hear tone and inflection, but I hear two things in there that suggest that it's part of a pattern of obstruction of Justice. One is remember, this is a curling after Michael Flynn's lawyers have said he's withdrawing from the joint defense agreement where they're sharing privileged information. And he says, if you're cooperating, we're gonna need a heads up. And so he wants to know what's going on with the investigation. The other thing he says is a remember that President Trump feels about Michael Flynn. He's fond of him Korean favor with him. The other thing that's important is not to look at this in isolation but to look at it in the totality of the circumstances. And if you read Robert Muller's report, one thing you'll see is that it's the return phone call. That is also very compelling because when Flint's lawyer calls him back and says, no, we can't share information gender gets. Very upset with him says I take that as hostility from Michael Flynn and I'm going to tell President Trump about that. How steady? And so that is a kind of intimidation that could be seen as obstruction of Justice, when you look at the whole picture. How about you Carol? Yeah. Absolutely. I agree with Barbara. If I were if I were Michael Flynn's attorney and I listened to that voice mail being left on my phone. I would have just sat back in my chair and said, wow, I cannot believe I just heard that voice mail when you have a situation where you're, you're subject to retarget of an investigation, or you represent the subject or target of the investigation. And you think someone who is part of your joint defense group has left that joint defense group and is now cooperating with the government and you're going to leave voicemail. You're going to call them and talk to them. You have to try you have to do everything you can to be above reproach. You cannot leave an ambiguous, or, or suggestive, I is a better word a suggestive voicemail saying, you know, if if you, you know, if your client decides to cooperate one we really want to know what he's saying, and to don't forget right now. The president really likes it. I mean, that's what's so striking here is that this isn't just any ler. The president of the sitting if the lawyer for the sitting president of the United States, who leads us I mean, any lawyer, I think would be in really dicey territory doing this. But it also Barbara to me speaks of the broader issue, which is this is how the lawyer communicates he never comes out and says, what he's doing, but we can understand that. And that if you read the motor report, that turns up everywhere, all the time, no one's ever coming out and saying, like, Well, I, I mean, except for when the president says Russia, if you're listening like they're not actively saying that thing. But every message that is sent behind the scenes to obstruct or to Russia, where rushing cutouts sends an extremely clear message that you have to be an idiot not to understand. Yes, in that is typical in most cases, exactly are savvy enough, not to say, listen, I'm about to obstruct Justice right now. Let's do this thing that would be a legal people speak in code. They speak indirectly it's very nuanced. And sometimes that makes it difficult to prove such a case. But when you can look at the context, and you can look at. Pattern of behavior. That's when I think you can draw those reasonable inferences jury will typically instructed that you can't read someone's mind, but you can look at the totality of the circumstances and use your commonsense to figure out what's going on to that end say the Lanny Davis who, who represents Michael Cohen. Michael got a very similar message. So there is a peers a bit of a pattern. I wanted to ask about another legal issue before us. Caroline has both a former federal prosecutor and state judge. There's a there's a question now about impeachment proceedings. And whether they will if the house were to declare them, it would bolster their court cases for acquiring information and enforcing subpoenas, right? So it's one thing, the houses subpoena someone in the block executive privilege. And there's a theory of the case in an interview, Jamie Raskin said that there's brewing sentiment on the judiciary committee that without an impeachment inquiry. Democrats could suffer some losses in court in their efforts to compel the White House to cooperate with their oversight demands. What do you think of that legal theory? I, I think there's a lot to that just goes to show that when one side, raise the stakes. And the other side, feels it needs to raise it. It's takes, you know, both sides have to be careful about unintended consequences that may come back to bite them. You know, because you have now a district you now have a DC appellate court decision which will be the same court that would hear any, any litigation coming out of these challenges to the houses subpoenas, and that court has said that impeachment inquiries, are like judicial inquiries, and therefore fall under an exception to the grand jury secrecy rules. So what has happened now because of this very broad instruction that the White House is given a witnesses not to comply with subpoenas issued by the house. It has now ramped up discussion of actually starting impeachment inquiries in order to have better arguments in court that they should have access to all the grand jury information. So I do agree that has star. Being an impeachment inquiries going to give a little more leverage to the house. That's good to know baroque, quite and Carolina. Great to have you both for more of the political battle over the president's culpability and criminality. I'm doing my Matt well cheddar luxuries magazine, and Michelle Goldberg MSNBC political analyst and op Ed columnist in your time. So this is something I've been thinking about reading Chinaman's square remembrances. And there's this one moment where I think it's the Deng Xiaoping's deputy calls the head of the army the night before they send in the tanks and what he says, I talked to the chairman. He says, solve the problem tomorrow. Now, this is this is China where like there's no special counsel that you're worried about, and there's no grand jury law. Like you could just say, like go smash the protesters, but even in that context he doesn't say go smash the protesters he says he talks in code go back to any television regime any criminal enterprise. Nobody's ever come out and saying what they're saying. They're talking the way Jaylen down his talking. They called it the final solution. They do exactly. Right. Yes. I mean, the point is that like in any criminal enterprise in any system of government wrongdoing. Any one trying to shake down a witness. Like, that's how it sounds, I. But the reason that everybody that we're all bashing our heads against the wall. And the reason I think people feel so frustrated in some cases, despairing is because it is all out in the open. Right. This is a criminal enterprise. They do talk like cut, right? Mafiosos. I mean, the whole thing is so blatant and yet, there's no one who sort of stepping up to take this on and said people have been ground down by the relentless degradation of it. What's ground down, but it's also there's a political calculation, particularly among Democrats. I think Democrats Nancy Pelosi in particular want to be able to say lock him up because that's different than, than actually launching impeachment proceeding, but you want to be able to play to the base here, because the base has that feeling but an impeachment, that's a role of the dice from a democratic point of view, much more than it is, from say, justna Masha view, but I think right? But I think it's exactly wrong. I think lock him up is wrong. For basically the same way, as locker up with wrong, even though, I think the case is stronger here. I think clearly a declaration of basic norms, and civility. And no one Brooklyn. We should say things like that on a daily basis about the president of the United States. And I'm glad that we are. Yes. All that is true, but there's also a political problem and it's not an insignificant one, which is this public opinion polls right now are pretty clear that even though you can charge someone for obstruction of Justice, even if there is no proof of an underlying crime, whether or not lying a collusion conspiracy crime American people don't necessarily want to go there for that. And that is a political problem if it goes to the house, here's, here's what's important to me, and what's important about both the locker up chant and how sort of ugly and brutal, it is. And it was the first time I saw a breakout. I was sort of astounded and every time I say it breakout on, I'm astounded and astounded to watch on straight faced talk about how awful, it is the point is that it's not about wrath. Like that's what's so important, you can say, like I want to see him in jail later. I don't care one way or the other. What is the abuse of power and enforce? Right. That's fine. But I'm saying, like, in a narrow sense what it's about here is. Use of power and some guardrail for power, which really matters as a constitutional matter. And as a matter of the rule of law. So frustrating about this conversation. Is that the way that Trump in the conservative movement, that's caused around him? They so often are guilty, either of projection, or else, whatever they accuse other people of a statement about what they do or plan to do. So Trump kind of goes out there and says it Hillary Clinton's foundation was this corrupt slush fund. It turns out, naturally that Trump's foundation is this corrupt slush fund that has now been dissolved when you're talking about, it's just like, oh, they traded accusations, you know, when they're kind of empirical under. Yes, underpinning is so radically different, but, but I think that they are very good propagandists and they're very good at sort of derange in the conversation, so that it just seems as if you know, well, yet, now both sides are engaging in this sort of, in this sort of evisceration of norms. I'm curious to someone who's a sort of lifelong card carrying libertarian. How much the Ammash case resonates with you, and how much you feel like it resonates with your religion. I don't want to. I want to. Strongly I find myself nodding along when he says that the president acted with corrupt intent to Thornton investigation. I think got self evident. I think when he judge Napolitano, Fox News across the street, gene Healy from Kato make the argument that impeachment is actually an underused remedy for to dissuade poor behavior in the executive branch and to punish I I'm not an ingredient in all of this, but I do run up against the is this going to actually are we going to just protract ourselves, then twelve to eighteen months, not in terms of fatalism of a Republican runs Senate with people who don't have any morals, I grant that's going to happen anyway. But more of about in terms of American public, the American public really going to go through eighteen months twelve months of this, when there is no underlying conspiracy collision crime there. And I'm not sure you are. You are fairly persuaded on the merits just in terms of like, what it would mean. And what the guardrail, it would predict I think congress should dudes damn job, just basically basic level, like read the report and come up with conclusions and be honest about it in that sense. And so that's. In the way that much completely resonates with me. I don't know where we would lead, whether that would be a prevent thing to do. Well, I mean, I think that we're going through the next eighteen months regardless right yourself. Himself. So it's like the Democrats are passing the ball around, and like looking at the clock right, like, oh, look. He's polling at forty two percent, and there's election coming up. It's like well there's lots impeachment. Is this kind of superlative national trauma, and sort of watching this president, you know, break the law and subvert the country and profit from his office, with impunity is also a national trauma, first significant number of the American people. Right. And so it is obviously, I think that there might be a political argument against impeachment. I don't understand a moral or legal argument against it. All right, Matt Welsh shell go Burke. Thank you, both very much up next is Trump leading the country in new recession with his economic policies new signs point to. Yes that story coming up in just two minutes. Hi, it's Katy Tur. Wanna keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go. Subscribe to the MSNBC daily newsletter you'll get the best of what you've missed or in this unprecedented era of news, text MSNBC, two six six eight six six to subscribe. Just two weeks ago. President Trump got up to brag about these sixteen billion dollar handout, giving the farmers and ranchers to offset the damage done by his own trade wars. We will ensure that farmers get the relief they need and very, very quickly good time to be a farmer. We're gonna make sure that so today I'm announcing that. I have directed secretary produced to provide sixteen billion dollars in assistance to America's farmers and ranchers that all comes from China. Now, perhaps out. Surprisingly, other industries have been rocked by Trump's trade were asking for their handout, today, the main congressional delegation, asked the president to share some of that government cash with the Maine lobster industry, which has gotten hammered by retaliatory tariffs. We've lost about eighty percent of our mainland. China sales with a twenty five percent punitive tariffs. They just can't afford to buy from American shippers. They are buying from our Canadian, counterparts competition versus us. Another example, very real life consequences. The president's policy just today, we got a really bad jobs report, only seventy five thousand new jobs in may. When analysts expected about one hundred thousand more than that now important note of caution. These numbers are often revised down the line. But this also comes in a month that annihilated the markets Trump's unnecessary trade were escalated day by day with increasingly severe, and tangible effects, the American economy, it is pretty hard to unilaterally. Precipitate a recession from the Oval Office in the middle of a growing economy. But the president seems hell bent on making it happen. Twenty now Robert Reich, former secretary of labor under President Clinton. He's now the chancellor's professor public policy UC Berkeley after days, disciplining job numbers came out. He tweeted, quote, watcher wallets, if Trump blocks, Mexican good. The slowdown turns into a recession Robert, explain why you think that's the case. But first of all, Chris says you just said seventy five thousand new jobs is really bad. I mean you need one hundred twenty five thousand new jobs just to keep up with the increase in the in the labor force, and relative to where we have been in this recovery starts in two thousand nine it's a very bad jobs report overall, there is a slowdown. There's no question about that. But if you add onto that slowdown, all of the direct and, and slurry damage that comes from these tariffs tariffs against China retaliation from China tariffs third threatened against Mexico. I mean you could easily find the American economy in a recession certainly before the election. There's been a lot of debate about this. Right. Like, are the effects of this big enough to actually not it knock America off an expansion into recession, and I've seen people arguing on both sides that the sheer size of it, relative to the size of the American economy is big enough, and I've seen others argue it can. What's the case that it could? Well, it's the interaction Chris between the tariffs, and also the, the slowdown that is almost inevitable given how long this recovery has gone. I mean is don't go forever. They gradually down American companies and American individuals. Individual consumers are deep in debt. That's another thing that's not talked about very much, but that debt is also a problem. And then finally, you've got that tax cut for big corporations, and for the very wealthy that did not trickle down just added two trillion dollars over the next ten years to our debt now, put all of that together, and you get a an economy that is very, very vulnerable. We should know. There was a new study out. I think it was from a sort of it's from a sort of center, right outfit, we should note, but they say that, that the terrorist have already wiped out the tax Bill savings for average Americans, right that there were so paltry at the bottom that, just the tariffs that applied already. You're already net net. You've liked those out. Yes. And I know on new start another new study again not from the left. Another new study from a centrist thing. Take. Just out yesterday to all the tariffs go into effect. I mean, we're talking about China and the threatened tariffs against Mexico. You're talking about four thousand dollar Bill for the typical American American household. Now, remember, it was supposed to be a four thousand dollar bonus from the time Scott, but nothing trickle down. So this is a four thousand dollar negative for the typical household. There's also something just so ideologically ridiculous about the president slapping on tariffs running around yelling about how terrible socialism is, and how they're going to defend the free market enterprise, whatever. And then handing out welfare checks to the industries that are getting knocked her of the terrorists, and now you've got this classic competition in Washington for who's going to get the next check to the handout to the industry, that's being hurt by his tariffs. Well, that's why this corporate welfare, it's socialism for the rich, and it is harsh capitalism for everybody else, this is the story of Trump onyx and et is small wonder that you've got, you know, not only farmers, but. You've got everybody else. I mean, lobster people lobster in Maine, but you're also going to get a huge problem for the American automobile industry, particularly with regard to Mexico because those supply chains are totally integrated, you would have to rebuild all supply chains. Yeah, we're going to watch the automakers coming to Washington to ask pretty already. I already are Republican is one of the interesting things about this. You've got the US chamber of commerce, and most of the Republicans in the Senate who are saying, Trump don't do this. I mean, there's almost I can't think of anything that has United everybody against against the president. All right, Robert Reich. Thank you so much for tonight, pretty shit. Thanks, chris. Coming up, new details on the GOP campaign to gerrymander North Carolina and new evidence that Republicans lied to a federal judge about their own plans. That's next. You might remember this crazy story we covered last week about, what was hidden on the hard drive of a deceased GOP operative named Thomas hustled. Those hard drives revealed that hoffler played a central role in the Trump administration's efforts to add a citizenship question to the US census, they also showed that hot feller had explicitly written, the result of adding the schism ship question would be an electoral advantage for the Republican party, and white people. Now, we have another revelation from those same hard drives, according the watchdog group common cause hot fellers files also reveal that North Carolina, Republicans lied to a federal court in an effort to keep gerrymandered legislative district in place for as long as possible those districts have been ruled unconstitutional, but the North Carolina GOP insisted there was just not enough time to redraw legislative map, the forest special election hyphen, files televise different story here to explain Ari Berman senior. Report, mother Jones, author of gives the ballot the modern struggle for voting rights in America. Are you've been covering hoffler Eller and this case? So what do we learn from these new files? It's pretty remarkable Chris, what we learn is that Tom hoffler, drew congressional and state legislative maps in North Carolina that were struck out as a legal, racial gerrymander is, in fact, the state, legislative maps federal court said were among the most extreme Rachel gerrymanders ever seen by federal court. So pretty amazing language they said in two thousand sixteen you need to hold new elections in two thousand seventeen the North Carolina GOP said we have no time we haven't drawn the maps yet. Well, people discover seventy five thousand files on Tom Hoffa's hard drives, and what they find is at tough Hoffer has in fact drawn all of these districts. And so, basically the North Carolina GOP lied about the fact that hoffler had drew the map so they didn't have to hold special elections allowing them to prolong their supermajority in the North Carolina legislature for it entirely one more year. Wait a second, wait a second. So what what we've learned the I think. I didn't understand this. When I read it, what we've learned is that, when they go to the court, and they represent the we just there's no time to redraw maps. They actually had redrawn maps, exactly. They were sitting on the hard drive of this guy. They told the federal court said in legislative hearings. We haven't done anything to draw the maps. They look at offers files he's drawn at ninety seven percent of new Senate districts ninety percent of new house district he'd already done the work and now they're saying how for just did it on his own time. We didn't instruct it to all your decide to do in your free time is draw hypothetically, gerrymandered maps that is really remarkable. I mean, this is what they said to a federal judge. They didn't just like they represented this in court, they represented this in court. It's all under oath. They the court in fact, decided not to hold special elections, because they believe north kind of Republicans, when they said there was not enough time this allowed them to have a super majority in the legislature in one of the most important swing states in the country for another year as a result. There's a pattern here. Right. So we're seeing the census and we're seeing in North Carolina, which is it's not just using these tools, whether they're gerrymandering of the census. To kind of rig the game for your favorite constituencies, white people Republicans, but then the lying about it, which to me is just tell that they understand exactly what they're doing. They know that they are illegitimately, wielding power. They know there's a problem with doing a citizenship question to explicitly benefit, white people, which is why they're claiming they needed to enforce the Voting Rights Act, which everyone knows it's a complete lie. They know that they just can't outright gerrymander. So they had these different justifications for why they're doing it. Really, what this boils down to is they are trying to solidify their power by any means necessary. And now you have this remarkable confluence where the guy that did all the gerrymandering is the guy that's now trying to rig the sense. So it's really all come together and try to this long-term Republican strategy for long term minority rule. What's remarkable to is are the historical echoes here. I mean, I don't know how to are people with, with, with sort of what happens as reconstruction recedes, you know, south and Jim crow rises. But the politicians then often would say, like unindo we, it's not race, we don't we're not trying to stop people from voting. We just think there should be literacy tests, like, obviously people vote literacy tests, or we think there should be pulled tax or, or whatever it is. It was always a disingenuous, they were always lying about their motives to achieve precisely their aims, which was to make it harder for black people vote and easier for white people will political power. And there's a really uncomfortable resonance to what's happening here. And a lot of the rhetoric you see, now, for example, about voter fraud is so similar to the things that you hear after the civil war during reconstruction. I mean it's almost verbatim the kind of rhetoric we have and they're talking about. We need a knowledgeable electric, or we can't have literates voting or you don't want to diminish the value of the vote and all of these things, which is the same kind of arguments, we're hearing today, they know they can't succeed on the merits. They know that if you told people do you want to question, that's gonna explicitly benefit Republicans, do you want. Do you want the worst, Jerry racial gerrymandering Northcott has ever seen? People aren't gonna want, even some Republicans might not want it. So they're having these new things they're saying, oh, we're trying to better enforce the Voting Rights Act when we all know that's not true. The disingenuousness and outright lying here. Both these cases is really astounding already Burma. Thank you so much. Great to see you still ahead from ambitious. Clinton plan rollouts to Biden's abortion funding reversals been a big week in the Democratic Party policy primary, that's coming up. But first Trump craters his own moon policy in tonight thing, one thing to next. Thing one tonight, you may remember a couple of months ago here, we took a deep dive, and I mean a really deep dive into the Mike Pence archives. It is stated policy of this administration and the United States of America to return American astronauts, to the moon within the next five years. Yeah. We made the video look old timey. But Mike Pence really is out there, talking about how we going to the moon again right here, the twenty first century. As President Trump said, we will return American astronauts to the moon for the first time since nineteen seventy two the president has directed, NASA and administrator, Jim Brian Stein to accomplish this goal by any means necessary. Well, it's a good thing. Mike Pence has absolutely no pride whatsoever. Because the president has once again pulled the rug out from under him announcing today out of the blue. No, we're not going to the stupid moon and that's thing to sixty seconds. President Trump has been talking about going to the moon since he got into office. I he changed the national space policy to say that we would lead the return of humans to the moon in March. He sent Mike Pence out to announce a five-year moon trip timetable just last week. He announced a new moon partnership. Japan will join our mission to send US astronauts to space will be going to the moon will be going to Mars, very soon. It's very exciting. That was last week. And you know how the president gets when he's watching his shows. Well, here we go again, NASA is opening a space station, a more commercial activities. In other words, it's inviting you pardonable this as it is refocusing on the moon. The next sort of. The quest if you will. But didn't we do this moon thing quite a few decades ago? Yeah. We went to the moon already, who's dumb ideas as to go back the president watching Trump TV on his airplane made a tweet for all the money. We are spending, NASA should not be talking about going to the moon. We did that fifty years ago, they should be focused on the much bigger things we are doing, including Mars of which moon is apart defense and capitalist science explanation point. So there you have it. The mood is out. Also, it's part of Mars. I don't know. It's getting really tough to follow to be honest, but although someone probably should break the news to the head of moon force over here. Say it's too hard. Too risky to expensive history is written by those compare to dream and do the possible. Near fort today that caught my eye showing that quote, wealthy people and corporations have so much money they literally don't know what to do with it. There's an obvious Lucien here, which is to tax that well for public investment. But until that happens. Here's one thing they could do with all that extra cash. So today, I'm happy to announce that with our foundation. I'm committee. One hundred million dollars five hundred million dollars to the launch of a new national climate initiative. And I hope that you will all become part of it. Today billionaire, Michael Bloomberg announced a five hundred million dollar pledge efforts to phase out the nation's remaining coal fired plants and the trend lines are already going the right direction as far as close concerned with coal consumption on a steady decline. But crucially, and this is really important Bloomberg's also making sure that coal power coming off line is not replaced by natural gas, which, of course, is also a fossil fuel and carbon Amidror, albeit cleaner, but would have to be phased out quickly nor to prevent climate catastrophe. The money will also be used to target state and local elections because as Bloomberg rightly says. Baima changes now. First and foremost, a political problem, not a scientific quandary, or even a technological puzzle. Now, let's be clear, the real path, or to post carbon future involves enormous grassroots mobilization and organization, and agitation and political leadership and technological change. It will not be led, primarily by billionaires. But if billionaires are wondering, what's it good use of their money? Well, this is probably about as good a use as you can think more, please. Presidential primary process is to my mind really two different processes at the same time. I it's a competition to select the candidate, the person that's going to be the nominee to represent the party, but also crucially. It's the way a party sets its Genda its policy priorities. The weight finds consensus view of the entire coalition about what it stands for and what it fights for. And you're already seeing that part of the process at work in the democratic primary right now well before anyone's casting about particularly on climate candidates across the spectrum of the competitors. In the primary are competing with various plans to tackle the climate emergency all of which are in the constant context of recent history really rather ambitious. You're also seeing this primary process play out on reproductive rights after several candidates, including Elizabeth Warren at our own townhall, criticized Joe Biden for his support of the federal ban on spending for abortion services. He moved towards the consensus view and reversed his position. We now see so many Republican governors denied health care to millions of the most poorest and most vulnerable Americans by refused. Even Medicaid expansion. I can't justify leaving millions of women without access to the care, they need and the ability to, to exercise their constitutionally protected right? If I believe Healthcare's. Right as I do I can no longer support an amendment. That makes that right dependent on someone's. Talk about where things stand in both of those democratic primary prophecies, I'm joined by L dry Williams, democratic strategists, Jason Johnson, politics editor for the route in an MSNBC political analyst and Bill share contributing editor to political magazine and a contributor to real clear, politics. Joy, I've seen the sort of people talking about the Biden's reversal here. It's right to me that at some level, it's like this is exactly what you want. Right. In terms of that, that second part of the process, which is finding consensus about, like these are, what this is what the Democratic Party is in the year twenty nine hundred twenty twenty like this is precisely how you want it to work. Yeah, but it also matters in terms of how you deliver your change. We've been through presidential cycles where we've accused candidates a flip flop, and we know how that works. But it also depends on how how you demonstrate to who the electorate is going to be how you have bombed on a position. And what made you change that position? Now he gets on stage and he says that, you know, because of what's happening in the states, where Republican governors are restricted in legislatures are restricting. That's why he's changing his mind but in an atmosphere where the democratic primary electorate is going to be different. They demand. They're demanding more. They want more from the candidates. It's a little difficult to just say that you have to say a little bit more. One response to that. Is it look, there's the question of like who the electorate is right? Like. All right. And you have to be aware of that it's a big group of credit primary electorate is, and who you're playing too, and that's something that the Biden campaign is going to have to address throughout the campaign, right? Although Bill, my sense of the Biden campaigns proposition here, and I don't necessarily think this is a bad, way for them to see this is I'm Joe Biden, and I could be Donald Trump in terms of what the Joe Biden presidency will be, it'll be basically, whatever the consensus ends up producing of this democratic primary, and I won't go without agenda. Well, yes, I think Biden very much wants to be seen as a mainstream democrat. But he's also I think made the calculation that most Democrats actually define themselves as moderates. Yes. Most Democrats say they want politicians who compromise over politicians to stick to their positions. No matter what, and that defiance against the left of the party has served him well up until this, because four she does not like the other issues. I don't wanna follow up on that because I totally agree with you. I mean I think there's like there is a disconnect in terms of the ideological positioning of, of the sort of most intensely active people in this primary this early on and the median voter in the democratic process in terms of how they self describe in terms of those things like compromise and part of the value proposition. Joe Biden is like I can stiff arm those folks, I'm Joe Biden, and I'm gonna hit the center and I know how to win. Why is this issue different? Right. And his argument that he knows how to win works when he goes toe-to-toe with Trump and Trump doesn't hit the Mark with Trump tries to throw a punch of Biden. It doesn't land that serves Biden's argument when Biden zigzags on the height of him as he did these past forty eight hours that makes them look wobbly. So it's less partly, it's the position, it's probably how we handled it when he is defiant and strong that makes people think that guy knows how to deal with the fire is wobbly less. So although I also sort of Nick cover had this last night. And I think it's true, it's like no one's going to beat you up for coming to them. You know what I mean? Like it's like if the if you like if you come to the position, it's like okay, well, welcome, which was, basically what the rest of the field set, which is, you know. The problem with Joe Biden, and this is the whole idea of, of I could stiff arm these people that I've always said this. He has he's always been electable and not viable. Right. The guy can't make it through a private or save his life, but if he ever got general election, he's probably a very likable candidate. He's got to remember that you still have a primary because this is what I saw about the sort of high debt. Okay. Great. You came to this position. Will you be able to make that same transformation about the crime, though? Because that's the one there are several things that Joe Biden has said, I'm not changing my mind and that's going to blow up in his face if he doesn't do something like what he did the crime Bill to me. Which, again, I burned entire book, substantively, I think was very bad piece of legislation, and we should note. There are lots of people at the time without is about he's, I also think there is some divergence and the crime Bill, right? Like if you pull the most like active folks, who are really active in this right now. I don't necessarily think they're feeling about the crime Bill. And whether it's a you know, a no go for them is the same as your median voter in the South Carolina, Nevada primary. You're you're meeting voted is really can't point not asking about. I'm not asking about asking about the rain. Trump and then like why? But the point is that, like, if you're the Biden people, that's the thing, that's friend of mine for that in the problem, which is done, which is not a crazy theory of the case out of crazy theory. But it's like it's like you guys. Here's the danger can act like a front runner. You can't act like we're still gotta remember that you've got a race on because if you started looking arrogant, that's what blows face, but the other issue is better our conversation about who the electorate is. And so if you can't if the Biden campaign is focusing thinking that they're going to do a traditional pre Obama democratic primary process where you're speaking. Yes. To the moderate, the moderate, damn and don't have to really engage with the left don't have to do anything, then you're losing. So that's Bill. This is my point. Right. Like I think their theory of the case is a pretty strong one, I think this idea that they think like let's project out towards the project out both towards Trump and also the sort of big swath of the not on Twitter, part of the democratic primary, which is a pick the majority. Probably right. They have to come up with a strategy to deal with the other parts of the. Policy debate. That's happening. I'm sorry, that to me yesterday. What's the question again? I'm just saying that they have to come up with a strategy to deal with, like, I think it's a decent theory, the case for them to running as the front runner and trying to cover up this relatively center of the coalition position and run against Trump. But they have to have a sort of strategy for how they're dealing with all these policy fights that are going to be happening around them. Well, I think their strategy is they're going gonna have their policy rollout Biden and did a climate policy package of vita has done some economic policy patches before I don't think he's going to try to rock the boat too much either towards the right or the left, they don't want, they don't want to get into a scrap. That's right with the base, if they don't have to. But the same time they don't want to be pushed around by the base to be forced to apologize time and time again, so it's a fine line to walk. And that's why I think in this case with the Hyde amendment by the want to end it as soon as possible. You know, it's funny when you look at there's like scoring DWDM innate. Right of where someone is in the caucus Joe Biden was, basically, smack dab in the center of the democratic caucus, I tire career the US Senate, which chew something gets up with, like understands very well where the middle of democratic consensus politics are. And that's where he aims. But here's the way, the Biden campaign has to remember. Yes. Yes, they could be that Twitter is not real life, but Twitter in the conversations and the fights that happen on social media boil over into the media over to the press. And so if you guy. Guy in that standpoint. And then also that being used against particular pockets, like women like people have Cutler that is also got up. There's also Twenty-one people that are aiming at you now. Right. That's and you've got you've had to have the Democrats and he's running for president L joy Williams. Jason Johnson and Bill share. Thank you so much. Joining us before we go quick, reminder about this week's episode of our podcast. Why is this happening features one of the founding members of the black lives matter movement? At least you Garza really interesting discussion about the movement's origins evolutions and where it stands today. Going listen subscribe, wherever you get your podcast that does it for all in. You can catch us every weeknight at eight o'clock on MSNBC. Don't forget to like us on Facebook. That's Facebook dot com slash all in with Chris. The first presidential debate help that twenty twenty election to night of Wednesday, June twenty-sixth, then Thursday, June twenty-seventh, live from my Addy across three that NBC MSNBC Telemundo.

president President Trump Trump Joe Biden United States Democrats US Senate Chris North Carolina Robert Reich Hillary Clinton China Nancy Pelosi America Mike Pence Sean Hannity Democratic Party Michael Flynn
Pelosi on Trump: "I want to see him in prison"

The Beat with Ari Melber

45:12 min | 1 year ago

Pelosi on Trump: "I want to see him in prison"

"This episode is brought to you by Cox. With contour TV from Cox you can find all your favorites. All in one place. Does it have the YouTube, you Bet El what about that? Netflix thing net Netflix, too. And although superhero movies, contour has all the latest titles on demand. Oh my grandkids love that big green guy, though. I prefer the one with the hammer myself. Okay. I think we're done here now. Get all your favorite apps shows and movies, right? On contoured TV from Cox. We have a special show tonight, including the Republican civil war, Trump attacking his own party over tariffs, and a top conservative says the party is now affectively a Trump quote Colt, and then the story that has every Mohlala just fascinated right now, these new secret memos from inside the Muller pro which allegedly go into all kinds of details. It's all part of a clear indictment of Trump world from the pretty famous author Michael wolf. I have a lot of questions. About this. I don't put them to him as he makes his first ever appearance on the beat. That's in tonight's show. And also later tonight, I wanna tell you, I have a special report for you, that we have been working on this is about a brand new story it relates to Trump's immigration policy turmoil. It involves the president's recurring nightmare, which involves never-trumpers. It also involves Ted Cruz. And it also involves some pretty bad news for Mitch McConnell. And I could tell you honestly, we don't think you'll see that story anywhere else that's tonight as well later in the hour, but we begin with the House Democrats on offense, hitting hard against the Trump teams efforts of what they call stonewalling these open obstruction probes. Plus the new release of voicemail. That reveals Donald Trump's own lawyer criminal defense lawyer trying to get a heads up on whether Michael Flynn had quote evidence that would implicate the president. Democrats are pressing ahead on their aggressive plans in all of this as they face what they call the stonewalling because they're going to hold attorney general bar, and former White House counsel, Don, Mcgann in contempt. And that's not all there. This new, there's this new report here, but they're going to grant other committee chairs the power to go to federal court to enforce any subpoenas. That could be the mullahs report, it could be evidence from bar. It could be future subpoenas. So it's another way that we're seeing the esscalation of this interbranch war, even as there's a larger question over whether the impeachment questions, the impeachment debate is winding up or winding down. Well, here's a clue. Also, new speaker Pelosi, she's dialing up her rhetoric telling senior Democrats that, while she may not be for impeachment. Now. She wants to see Donald Trump in prison, closely showing that was unlikely that impeachment is coming anytime soon. She is the house speaker, she controls, whether that would become real she wants Democrats to focus on some sort of longer term alternative. You have the Justice department policy that you cannot indict a sitting president. We've heard a lot about that. That's also being contested twenty twenty dams or running against that. And then separate from whether they repeal that policy, if a democrat does defeat Trump, what you have here is. The speaker of the house openly suggesting that after his presidency, maybe he should be prosecuted. Maybe he should be jailed. That is tough talk Trump responding in kind on a Fox News interview this was part of the war cemetery discussion, part of the Normandy, seventy fifth that we've been covering today. Take a look at this. NC Pelosi nervous, Nancy, Nancy Pelosi doesn't talk about it. Manzi Pelosi's a disaster. Okay. She's a disaster and let her do what she wants. You know what I think they're in big trouble. Of course, if the Democrats turned big trouble, that raises the question of why the Trump administration in the White House, or stonewalling in the first place? Why not just get this over with and provide the witnesses now in the Miller report, you have evidence of potential parts of obstruction? And you have as we reported previously, the discussion of what Trump's lawyer said, when dealing with former national security adviser Michael Flynn's lawyer, now, this was in a very stressful. Hot time. November twenty seventeen reports are out that Flynn was going to leave his joint defense agreement, and make a deal with Muller today for the very first time that voicemail is out. Now we knew about this because it's part of Motors evidence now you can hear it for the very first time. This is John again. Maybe I I'm sympathetic understanding as to what it should receive here. The in star room surprise me if he's all onto raise if you. With the driver if on the other hand. Did you relation? Surprising. Then we've got a national security issue. We need sometime has remember what we all said about. The president is through Flynn. No. I'm joined by the center for American progress action funds when you taller Daily Beast Margaret Carlson and the root dot coms. Jason Johnson, a good evening to you. Margaret, you've been covering a lot of these different characters over the years. Rarely do you get that kind of a private recording. What are you read from it? What are you here in the atmosphere, as I mentioned, we knew the outlines from the report, we did? But hearing it like that. It's, it's chilling it sounds like something that could be in the sopranos where you say you were our friend, but you might not be our friend anymore and it, it would create a national security issue. You know, the whole all of the times that the, the White House has tried to dangle favors pardons. Anything to keep people silent is a disgrace. And now they're doing it by ignoring subpoenas, and forcing Democrats, in this case, and I don't think they need to do it through impeachment. I think the tools that Democrats need are available to them by other means through the judiciary committee through oversight committees to an end to use the contempt. Method if they don't, if the soup that's how they have to enforce the subpoenas against people who are really not under Trump's control anymore. Don McCann had his heroin moment, as you're reading the mullahs report. And I assume he would testify but he's been intimidated by Trump into not testifying the same with hope Hicks. So we have to hope there's a branch of government left. The Senate is a moral not gonna do anything don't count on them. They're never going to impeach. But that the judicial branch, there are judges who will still do the right thing wanting to take a listen to Senator Warren. Donald Trump, as president delayed, deflected move, fired, and did everything he could to obstruct Justice, if he were any other person in the United States, based on what's documented in that report, he would be Terry d- out in handcuffs. Is this the new democratic message instead of them actually doing, what one would do if you thought someone should be carried out in handcuffs, which is go forward with the congressional remedies? The Senator Warren is at least consistent, because she has come out for impeachment. If Nancy Pelosi believes his criminal conduct just find jail. Doesn't it justify impeachment broke? Well, I think what Nancy Pelosi strategy here is ultimately, let's be strategic. Let's get it right. The first time because once you open that floodgate within impeachment proceedings. There is no taking it back. And what Pelosi is fully aware of is that sure there might be success in the house. But the Senate is a graveyard as we've seen for any bit of positive legislation that House Democrats have put up Mitch McConnell has made it very clear. They're all DIO way, the other thing about Senator warned statement that really springs. True is no one is above the law, and that includes President Trump's Hulu even use obstruct. Let me put you on that because you're in Washington and you're dialed in. I'm not saying cap is the same as speaker Pelosi. We'll invite her on as well as you do that, as you are ticky, late the some of the analysis of the rationale, doesn't the counter argument, become is this, the Democrats version of law corrup-. I mean, there was a judicial legal process. We've covered it extensively. It did not result in an indictment, whether you like it or not the next step would be does congress want to deal with it. And if the speaker doesn't want to go that route she has every right to explain that. But if she doesn't want to go that route, and then she is making prison esque jail, esque references, does she risk. I ask for your analysis to she risk getting close to a locker up kind of frame where you're using the impugning of criminal conduct without actually responsibly dealing with the evidence. Well, I think going back to what she said about whether or not she wants to do, I think she is dealing with it. I think she's just not moving as quickly as some would want because she's outlined. That the premises in which in the conditions in what she would like to move forward is with one, a lot more buy in from the general public awareness into some bipartisan support. So I think she's dealing with it as they ramp up a committee chairman and women's abilities to foul suits against people who and hold people in contempt of congress who choose to not appear in by by subpoenas. So it's, it's being handled is just not being handled in a way that I think with the urgency that a lot of people want to see Jay riskier of this turning into lock him up. Yes. It's just a silly or as lock him up because it's also a chant that they're not willing to go through with everybody knows that Donald Trump really wasn't going to try and lock up Hillary Clinton and essentially, what you have Nancy Pelosi saying is we have a monster here and you can use holy water, and you can use garlic, but don't use the silver bullet even we got him in the chamber literally in our chamber, the house chamber, we're not going to use the silver bullet that's suppose it doesn't make any sense and it makes her leadership sound week. Look, I'm down here right now. I just saw speech by by Maxine Waters. She led the entire audience in a chant of impeach forty five the base wants to see this process. Nancy Pelosi is speaking against our own base, and speaking against their own leadership at this point there is no strategy behind it. It's certainly not want a lot of people are agreeing with. Wanted to you wanted to get in. I'm saying she's not, she's the saying let's not jump to that silver bullet yet. There are still some foundational things that need to happen here and so she's just moving strategically. No, that's not strategic. We're not going to. Yes. If she says, what we can't do it until the Senate happens. And we can't do it until we get the public involved every single logical person who knows anything about history saying, you can't get the public involved in to begin impeachment proceedings. We don't have to go back and repeat the whole Nixon rule. Again, you can't get the public involved. She is constantly moving the goalposts in ways that don't make sense to anybody, you can still impeach him without him being removed. That's the Senate problem and putting them on the line and making Republicans have to say during right before an election year. This is why I want to keep a president who is engaging in possibly illegal activities and office. That's the greatest campaign slogan. You can have for twenty twenty and she's denying that to this country hearings that are televised will get public buying. Idea. But I think those hearings can be done. The judiciary committee hearings oversight committee hearings. Look what Trump did with the Muller report, he exonerated himself. He had the help of William bar. Who's, you know, this is the part of the movie where you find out that the police captain is on the take so Barr did everything he could to help Trump make that case. So the public, or at least a portion of it thinks that Trump was found innocent by the Miller report he said, no collusion and I was exonerated. Imagine what he'll do if the Senate relieves him of impeachment if it doesn't convict him of impeachment what he will do with that. He will have been a martyr, and he will be he will declare himself innocent, and that will not help anybody if you know that your you that adds I mean it makes it worse for Democrats going into the election to have Trump. Have that in his pocket. That's that's not going to be in his pocket. He's going to say that no matter what Donald Trump has been caught doing all sorts of inappropriate activities, and he will still exonerate himself. And if you wanna talk about the dirty police, you've, here's what we learned from all cop films, right? The departed if you take too long, the hero ends up dead, right? Indentity and the movie because they weren't aggressive enough, when they needed to be this doesn't have to be about what Donald Trump is this is about what the constitutional responsibilities are of the house, what the responsibility, what the constitutional responsibilities are the Senate, this sort of tepid nonsense on the part of Democrats. Well, we can't do this because Trump is gonna flip it. Another way has no one been paying attention to this guy for the last three years, we make up an lie. I thought, what we learned for the department, we learned that, that if you have the top floor apartment in the best fielding, Massachusetts. It doesn't make sense on a cop salary. Going back to as moderator. I'm going to go Juanita and then Margaret, and then we're out of time. Yeah. I honestly think with all the departed analogies aside. There is some value to the fact that the public needs to be bought in here and I'm talking about sure the echo chamber of Twitter is loud. You got progressive folks on the left really pushing here, but Pelosi sees the big picture. And I think we gotta stay the course so if you can fast forward and see that impeachment only emboldens Trump and makes him stronger. Would you still be for impeachment? It won't do that. So I'm in favor asking my friend, Jason. Yeah, it's not going to embolden him because he's emboldened anyway. So you should go ahead with impeachment. There's more emboldened men in in him. Look at him on d day, you know hating after. Completely under. Well, I'm going to fit in a break, because we have so much in this show, what I appreciate is such a fulsome no-holds-barred exchange of views with people having a very different ideas about what to do next on central constitutional question. So we listened and we learn Margaret, Jason Juanita, thanks to each you. Thanks, really appreciate it. Interesting conversation coming up this moment of truth. But Republicans opposing Trump on immigration John bainer throwing the shade. I wanna talk to you about what's happened with the Republican party. There isn't a Republican. There's Trump earning Rebublican party kind of taking a nap somewhere, taking a nap and then as I mentioned, I've a special report for you tonight. Donald Trump looking for an immigration, hard liner. Why it could blow up in his and Mitch McConnell's faces then later controversial reporting on this behind the scenes fight in the Muller probe? Michael Wolff makes his first ever appearance on the Beedi as a new book, he has controversy, and he says he's got secret Muller memos. All of that on the show tonight, we're looking forward to it when we come back. Hi, it's Katy Tur want to keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go. Subscribe to the MSN BC daily newsletter you'll get the best of what you've missed or in this unprecedented era of news, text MSNBC, two six six eight six six to subscribe. President Trump moving ahead on his trade war. And he says the critics that he's gotten from this, including on the Republican side are wrong. We don't Beximco the tariffs go on. And I made it too, and I'm very happy with it. And a lot of people senators included they have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to Derrick. No. Absolutely no idea. No idea. Donald Trump saying everybody look, you can't really stop me. The question is what the Republican party does. Now, we have evidence to look at what we have seen to be clear, whether you think it's good or bad is the Klein of what was known as the Republican party. This is sort of a Trump party now or a maga- party one where people struggle to stand up to Trump longtime conservative icons, like George will call it a Trump Colt or take former house speaker John bainer, whatever you think of him, this is a man who knows the Republican party intimately he dealt with the factions and the tea party. And now he says look folks with Trump there, ain't no Republican party. But I wanna talk to you about what's happened with the Republican party. There isn't a Republican party. There's a Trump party, Republican party has got to take a nap somewhere taken a nap, and that's on a stage bainer knows. That's going to be heard for whatever reason at this point, he's willing to just say it, then there are the reports we're hearing, you can believe them as credible or not. But reports of what these Republican members of congress say, in private take a listen. Look, I have Republican colleagues, who when we're not in a hearing or not on the house floor in when we talk about the president, they roll their eyes when they tell me privately that they are deeply disturbed, but they don't feel they can say anything. I find that very troublesome. I'm joined by columnist and host the Mike Lucan podcasts. Mike Lupu also bestselling author, the new one is batting order. And former Republican Congressman Tom Coleman congressman, do you think that this current Republican party has lost its way when they say they might stand up to Trump on the trade war is that real? Yes, they've lost their way and may never find their way back. And I doubt if they stand up to Trump, if, if this thing is settled, it's going to be settled in the back rooms of the capital, our off site at the White House somewhere and it just won't happen. However, I have thought long. Hard about what's wrong with Republicans. And I kind of think they're like the munchkins the land of is they were real afraid of the wizard until they drew back the curtain and found that was just a guy with a microphone and I think we have a lot of that going on here. So you know in the wizard of Oz. We had the scarecrow who needed a brain, we had a ten man who needed a heart and a lion who needed courage. So the Republicans need to take their cue from there, they need to use their own brains. Instead of blood, Trump thing for them the need to follow their heart and do. What's right. And finally, they need the courage to stand up to this one ABI dictator and find out, and I think maybe the congress is going to pull that curtain. And they'll find out that the guy behind the curtain is just overweight. Loud mouth, well laying it out there. Mike Lupu co we're not in Trump Tower or anymore. No. In our hands. Right. No, no, no. There's an Eminem song about guts, over fear that time is near. Okay. So are these guys talking a good game? Because there's another line in that song about how an angry man's power will shut them on. And bainer is another guy talking to good game now but if he were still in congress, I wonder, would he have turned into a quisling like Mitch McConnell or would he be saying the kinds of things that he saying now because Ari when he says these things now he sounds like a guy who's outside the Borsen? Yeah. I wanna fight you now. Well, I mean, I know John bainer. I know I'm fairly will. And I know how frustrated he was when he was speaker privately, what he what he felt about some of his fellow colleagues in the Republican conference so Jon doesn't have anything to lose now. And so he's saying what he thinks, and there's some things you can't say when you're speaker of the house, and you're the party leader. But he doesn't have that mental anymore. And I think he's saying was really and he's hard about and Mike. I'm gonna play some of the Republicans who are making noise on this particular issue, take a look. Well, there's not much support in my conference for tariffs. That's for sure. I think it's safe to say you've talked all of our members. We're not fans of terrorists think it's mistake, Monisha opinion, is that the short term gain is not more from long term pain for a lot of Republicans, you know, is attack at the tax foreign mostly by consumers. We actually may have enough to override a veto on this like. Whereas these guys been someday they're all going to be asked. You know what, what did you do in, in, in the war daddy, there? Now, finding their voice as this guy's talking about terrorists that they don't like our a he sounds like a loan shark. They're going to go up five percent. And then another five percent. He sounds like a guy talking about the big. Okay. And now this is of all the things he's done. This is finally offended these guys. I mean talk about getting religion pretty late in the church. And that's what striking why we're digging in on this is this isn't the appearance of a conflict or there's a lot of clash here. And you saw the president just hammering them, so we're going to see what happens. It's going to matter a lot to American consumers and workers. If these terrorists are implemented, Mike Luba, former Republican Congressman Tom Coleman. Thanks to both of you. We have a lot more in the show. Michael Wolfe is first ever appearance on the beat a very interesting book. I read the whole thing we're going. Talk about it. I think there's a lot in here, including what he calls the Trump psycho drama that you might want to hear tonight, but up next in thirty seconds. Donald Trump's search for immigration hard liner hitting serious trouble. I'm gonna tell you why it matters in thirty seconds. News tonight, on know, Trump search for a hardliner to run immigration policy, and this may dredge up nightmarish memories for Trump. It involves one of the things that he detests, most rejection and criticism and this from his own adopted party for the full context that helps to remember Donald Trump's rocky path to the Republican nomination when party leaders blasted him as a fraud, and fake conservative. Now, the leader in this effort was Senator Ted Cruz who came at Trump from the right? But yet mess with my wife, you mess with my kids, that'll do it every time Donald, you're a sniveling coward leave, Heidi the hell alone. This man is in pathological. He lies. Practically every word that comes out of a narcissist at a level. I don't think this country's ever seen crews fraud. Trump all the way to the convention debating the rules poaching delegates for stop Trump is effort that was all planned to stage, some sort of humiliating floor vote, they're not a lead this bare knuckle campaign cruise tapped, this guy, hen Cuccia Elliott. Former attorney general pugnacious enough to take on that longshot assignment challenging his own party's plan nominee, and our leaders and GOP congressional, he was basically his whole party all to stop. Trump and try to make Ted Cruz the nominee now, bucking Republican leaders may sound like a kamikaze mission for a Republican official and candidate who might want to run again. But this is sort of Kuching alleys thing he was out there, attacking John bainer calling him hostile and saying he betrayed the Republican party. And during the RNC launched this attack on Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell, doesn't represent Republicans. Use the least favourably considered Senator in America among Republican senators. I mean he is Lowe's. Among by the Republican grassroots lows. Okay, hootenanny blasting the most powerful Republican in office and his turn against Trump was widely seen as a real effort at the time, reporters covering him as the leader of the floor fight for a last ditch effort to derail Trump's nomination involved backroom negotiating at the convention, theatrics and even some ca- vetting about how the party rules were unfair. Violated the rules in the run-up to. Geeky stuff, right? But they didn't give the committee members. Of, of each other, which the rules call for look at one of the amendment. It's, it's, it's petty who Cinelli also stressed. This was about more than rules, insisting wall, the convention approach, this was a key moment that Trump was not even a conservative. This may be like reliving, a recurring nightmare for Donald Trump. And this formulation by Cuccia Anneli is kind of a recurring claim because he likes to say he's the only conservative, not Trump, not McConnell and that comes up again in a moment now at the convention, you know which nearly did not prevail because well Ted Cruz is not president. Would you remember how it went down? It started with the kind of prop work that only a lawyer turned candidate could love credential games that were too much for even Donald Trump junior. The same group of people running around, they wait for a camera to show up, and then they take their credentials and tried to dramatically. Throw them on the floor. They look like idiots, Ken kitchen, Elliot's you calling him an idiot. I think these people look like idiots when they're doing. After that loss crews marched out, and he told the delegates vote, their conscience Trump then storm the convention floor and crews would ultimately contradict himself later because he took that risk on stage. But then buckled, the Trump how 'bout his handpicked leader of the stop Trump conventional revolt. Where's he now? And he guesses is he backing another Republican primary challenger to Trump. Maybe governor weld. Is he working in Washington advocate, Detroit convert conservatism that he said, Trump lacked, where's he buying for a job working for Trump? Yes. Kuching Anneli is now set to be Trump's nominee to run the immigration system. Washington Post reporting Trump's plan to tap coochie. Nellie extends the purge of leadership at DHS. And this is where we're at Donald Trump urged his own appointees because they weren't conservative enough on immigration. He's playing to replace them with someone who said, Trump is not conservative enough. Now, maybe the president figures handing the keys on immigration to a former Trump critic sends a message, maybe next Anne Coulter will run ice as for coochie Nellie. He's explained to his Trump conversion with pragmatism. Look. Are we going to be happy with everything that happens in Gong's on presents? No. But are we going to be unhappy with everything that happens in a Hillary presidency? Oh, yes, this isn't just a story of Donald and Ken, because even if they evolved towards each other. What about all those Republican leaders in congress who clashed with Kuch Anneli after all he's pen, pals with Mitch McConnell. He wrote the majority leader, an open letter calling for his resignation, citing his failure of leadership saying, you are the swamp. You don't even show up for work, and America's too good for you to lead it. So how is Trump's plan to appoint Kuch Anneli playing on the hill and night? Well political reports Republicans ready to quash him. They say this looming fight is the climax of those Republicans years long battle with Cuccia Nellie, and his organization, which is to house, GOP incumbents, politically, this puts McConnell and his team in a tough spot do. They oppose both Trump and self described conservative on this immigration issue. Obviously, they don't want to be seen doing this. Over personal beef and putting their political squabble, which she wouldn't even know about unless you're kind of a Senate politics junkie, putting that above the nation's immigration policy. So do they have some other reason to explain opposing their pen, pal nemesis? Gucci nellie. No. And this political piece that's out about all this. Senate Republicans say, yeah, it's all personal this is about what Kuch Nelly said about them. So I just want to pause on this, this is twenty nine thousand nine for you. Politicians don't even pretend they're making these decision on the merits immigration policy is important, but not as important as what you said about me. They might argue or is important as you backing a different Republican in the past election. I don't want to be too high minded but I do want to say this to you tonight. This is supposed to be a democracy is not gonna work. Well, if the punishment for opposing someone in election has never allowing them into public service. So there may be logical objections can Kuch Anneli, there may be many of them. That's just not one of them. Now McConnell control the Senate floor he could deny. Vote just ask Merrick garland, which McConnell recently celebrated complete with the double standard. Let me tell you. If I'm still the majority of the center, thank me reaper. None of that stuff is going to know. So publicans might marinate in this another bare knuckled arena, deflects their power. But I'm this one column I actually fail because the White House is prepping to do an end run around him and install Kuch Anneli in an acting role. Voiding the fight with the Senate. GOP congressional Republicans have already seated a lot of power to Trump. They surrended surrendered oversight or funding powers that might restrict this reliance on the acting secretaries. In fact, I want you to know right now there are temporary acting leaders and posts at the Pentagon homeland security budget, even Trump's own White House chief of staff and dozens more senior acting roles across the government about just over a dozen more. So maybe Senate Republicans don't care about any of this until it hits home, and they want to keep Ken Kuching Noli out of government because he was mean to them. Maybe only in this petty Washington game. Do people realize that seating, these unitary powers of the president any president won't work well in the long run? And now McConnell may be hoisted on his own proverbial political petty petard, procedurally bludgeoned by Trump's tactic and Trump can use these powers to help the connel's nemesis while he just has to look on now. I could leave it all there and people who dislike some of those folks might enjoy that, but I have to tell you one more thing apart from the politics, the man, who would assume these acting powers in this end run around the Senate is not exactly known for being restrained or conservative, about federal power. Mr. coochie Nellie has advocated deploying War Powers for domestic and border activities like patrolling migration, and it was that war footing. He invoked before Trump was ever, an office, accusing Obama of an invasion of immigrants. He backed something that could literally be unconstitutional, trying to end the American tradition that people who are born here, our citizens, and he wants compared immigration policy to pest control. This is the person that Senate Republicans opposed for other reasons, and this is the person who, if you haven't heard about it, because there's a lot going on. This is the person who Donald Trump wants to put in charge of our entire immigration system. If that took a long time to go through it's because it matters. And we need to know the history to know where we're going. Now, I want you to stay with me because after the break as promise the bestselling author. Michael Wolfe is here on the beat for the very first time he's gonna detail a lot of what he says, is chaos and infighting at this White House. Good to have you here. When we come back. Why didn't Bob Muller sue Donald Trump to get that interview? Why wasn't Bob Muller clear in his public conclusions? My next guest, says that his new reporting may reveal some of the answers, which are not in the written Mullah report itself, that selling author Michael Wolfe. Says he's talked to a host of Trump world, people also obtained secret memos from inside Muller's team, including research. And what would happen if Trump tried to fire Mueller or pardon people or pardon himself? All of it is in the new book, siege a sequel to his blockbuster fire and fury, which you may remember it solo over four million copies around the world earned a threat of a lawsuit from Donald Trump and was associated with the removal of Steve Bannon, from the White House, not your typical book how you doing? I'm great. Thank you for having me, your first time on the beat. You got a lot of stuff in here and I'm delighted to be here. I'm happy to have you. You're also a controversial author, we'll get to that. But let's start with what you say you found secret internal memos that, no one. Else's ever gotten before, which explored the potential limits on the molar pro explain all of these memos. If you read through these memos you come up with one conclusion, which is that the special counsel is a very, very fragile construct that they could be. It could disappear any moment. The memos are series of series of questions. Can the president of the United States unilaterally fire the special counsel? And let's read the answer because it was clear than some of other things Muller has said, here's the answer. According to your reporting, quote, the president could fire the special counsel die recklessly, and you say that was the molar office conclusion. Right. So that was different from, you remember all of that discussion that you have to go through Rosenstein a set of layers. And the, the special counsel, this memo concludes not necessarily one of the other interesting things is what happens to the work product of the special counsel. If the special counsel is fired, and the answer is unclear but it might will be in the memo describes that it could just be. A toss away shredded gone. So there's a very reading through this, you come again, to that conclusion that they were aware at every moment of the day. And remember every moment of the day, pretty much Donald Trump is threatening them. They're aware that this could that this could result in effective constitutional crisis, rather, the mother of all constitutional crises and to your point on old. Trump also is doing in public would pass presence would only do in private. He is musing in tweeting about pardoning himself or others. In one of the memos you say, you obtained a you say MOS office concluded, the president can pardon his family members or close associates, even for the purposes of impeding an investigation. One of our experts when we covered this news, that you broke said this sounds like people in Moore's office. Trying to explain why they weren't more aggressive. I don't know if that's what it was. But I rather look at it just by what I have if this is the situation if the special counsel is exposed as this, then perhaps, if you're Bob Muller, and if you see your job as defending the institution, rather than I prosecuting the president. Well, I think than, than you might might will say better to give Donald Trump a pass a slight pass on this. So this rather than risk him going nuts. This is fascinating because they're the memos. And then there's a larger depiction and you reported the memo's, as you know, some people may still not believe you, the larger reporting. I read the whole book, let's me with the impression that you're. Elective account was that for all of the basically, the excitement around the molar probe as you just put it the fragility. There was actually inside it a great deal of consternation or even legally required weakness. I came to the conclusion that one of their missions, primary missions became not to be fired. Not to be closed that a mistake. I, I don't know. I mean, I think that I mean, I guess, in a world in which you, would you would say, here's the alternative Donald Trump literally creates a mob. As I say, the mother of all Constan crisis. End of the world style. Or, you know, you run this out, I think Bob Muller, probably thought again, I'm reading reading into what he might have thought since he's a sphinx. That, that Donald Trump will pass a couple more years of Donald Trump versus a. A crisis in the government, like we have never seen. And so that, when you say it that way, I think people do understand that interpretation because Muller certainly seemed like someone playing by the book and not trying to over shoot or be too aggressive with the president. Oh, I mean, I've always thought it'd be interesting to see if there was someone else in this in this role, rather than than than Bob Muller, like I thought, I thought, what if in a different world than alternative universe Rudy Giuliani had been this been the special counsel. No doubt in my mind would would've indicted that son of a bitch. So that's quite a line. So this goes to another paradox in your reporting, and your first book, as I mentioned, was quite influential, and had a lot of detail and backroom detail in it in this book, you seem to seem to sketch, a paradox where on the one hand Donald Trump and his team are inexperienced and often undisciplined, but the other hand when it comes to self-preservation Donald Trump is quite canny. And you show that you, you basically show he got where he needed to get a venture with Muller, probe and rattling Muller's. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things about about about Donald Trump, which which everybody in his circle, repeat pointed out to me, again, and again, and again, is that he's been in litigation for forty five years. Almost nonstop. I mean his whole life. I mean is really whole life is not is not real estate and business. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's fighting fighting legal battles. He spent as much time in court and TV is judge Judy the two places he went, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's literally him running lawyers in a way that, that, that is either absurd. Or possibly brilliant. Was he underrated? I think that, that Donald Trump's version his approach to this, a synchronous city. One of the things I sort of toggle between is, is, is, this is the story of Donald Trump. Richard, the third Shakespearian like that. Or is it the Beverly hillbillies go to Washington? And I kind of think that there isn't that Beverly hillbillies things he he's, he's Muller in the whole the whole institutional establishment approach this in conventional ways. And here's Donald Trump doing things which they have never signed because your book with all the Mola reporting lands at an interesting time where the country. Now eight days ago saw Bob Muller speak for the first time and is trying to understand how someone who was rated so high ended this way and Donald Trump who on law and ethics and many other issues, according to a lot of Americans is rated so low. I'm a little bit. Reminded of Sean Carter. Jay Z sure, you know of him who rhetorically asked. Would you rather be overpaid or underrated? And the question is was was Muller in some sense overrated for this job. I think you know, there's Steve Bannon that one point. We. After the Miller report came out. He said. Bannon kind of leaned in and said, said to me, never send them marine to hit man's job. Well, which seems to really resonate with what they were worried about Muller was going to do, and what some people, legally said he didn't do, which is, as you say land that legal killer, low, we used to having for a second. Sure, I'm going to fit in a lot more, including why Mr Wolf says he has the goods and the receipts to show it's all a psycho drama at the White House when we come back. A new book roiling, the White House by author, Michael Wolff. It depicts chief of staff John Kelly saying this about the president, he's out of control. Nobody can even carry this any more. What impact does Donald Trump's approach to life and human relations have on these people who give their careers and part of their lives. You know, I, I think it's the overriding factor in this in this White House. I mean, I think you can innocence put aside policy. You know, I mean, I think it used to be worried about him because he's a far right wing. He was a despot. He was all of all of that, that, which may will be true, but the real bottom line here is, is that he is first thing that he, he treats his staff terribly, they don't know how to work with him because because he's he can't focus. He can't absorb information he can't do. He doesn't really have any of the skill sets of a president of the United States on top of that. He, he, he, he regards them all as expendable. And, and in fact, the entire the entire class that entered with him in on January twentieth. Two thousand seventeen is virtually gone the class that replaced them. Right. He's virtually God. Then and then you have the people he worked with you report, the Senator McConnell view. Donald Trump is quote the stupidest person he'd. Ever met in politics, his wife, Elaine Chao regularly mocked, and mimic, Trump is a set piece. They've performed I, I think I can go, I think I can go further than that. It said anybody in the last three years, who has come into direct contact with Donald Trump understands that there's something wrong here. Something broken in him that he is a. Vile and ludicrous figure and what has broken within him. I I'm not sure I can go there, but I would say it has probably has something to do with forty five years of just craving. Attention and spending every waking moment in your life trying to get attention. Moves. Yeah. Thing from you. Is he a constant or is he deteriorating in your view? I'm not going gonna I'm not going to go there in, in a way. I found him I used to speak to him when I was at New York magazine. Late nineties early two thousands. He used to call me up a lot because to complain about what had been written about him or more often than not when something was not written about about him. And I thought he was he was he seemed crazy to me then but amusing because who cared so to me, that is the same person except he's been transformed into the president as, as I gotta finish break, I should mention the Justice department as we previously reported has contested parts of the book. The White House says you are pushing lies and fantasy and you'll come back. We'll talk about all of it again. Michael Wolff, very interesting. Thank you. The book is siege. Trump under fire it's out now. And when I come back news that could lead to a different contempt vote. After this. Breaking news, type before we go new from Bill, bars Justice department. They're rejecting a demand for documents from the Democrats in the house oversight committee, which the Pena's about getting material on those very controversial citizenship questions on the census, this could set up a different contempt vote for Mr. bar. The full house is scheduled to vote to hold barn content next Tuesday already that was all about the scuffle over the full unredacted Mullah report before we go. I also want to tell you, I guess, tomorrow we have former general counsel for the FBI, Jim Baker, and a very special fallback that king of funk. George Clinton joins Pulitzer prize winning journalists and humanitarian Nick Kristof excited to have them on together and that does it for the beat. Hi, it's joy Reid. If you love MSNBC where your heart on your sleeve at MSNBC store dot com, you can gear up with t shirts. Hoodies hats mugs and more from AM joy. And all your favorite MSNBC shows shop now at MSNBC store dot com.

President Trump Trump president Donald Trump Trump Mitch McConnell Bob Muller Republican party Senate White House Trump Nancy Pelosi emboldens Trump Trump Tower congress United States House Democrats John bainer Washington
Day 867: Trump leaves London and heads for Normandy... while still waging war with Mexico

The 11th Hour with Brian Williams

43:39 min | 1 year ago

Day 867: Trump leaves London and heads for Normandy... while still waging war with Mexico

"Tonight after an overnight attack on Bette midler and discussion with Piers Morgan about the Royal family Vietnam and Hitler. Donald Trump leaves London behind headed for Normandy, while still waging war with Mexico. Meanwhile, back at home. Nancy Pelosi responds to more questions about impeachment proceedings Jerry Nadler tries to hint. They still could come and among our guests tonight, a man, who is calling out the attorney general, for a direct contradiction not telling the truth. Plus new numbers this evening with polling, just in from two important states for the Democrats, if they believe they can win in twenty twenty all of it as the eleventh hour gets underway on a Wednesday night. Good evening, once again, from our NBC news headquarters here in New York day, eight sixty seven of this Trump administration and just hours from now, the president will represent all of us, the American people events to commemorate, the seventy fifth anniversary of the d day invasion of Normandy. And as they so often do tonight, the New York time sums up the president, we have watched during his first three days of this overseas trip, he quoted Roosevelt, and gently greeted frail veterans at a d day commemoration hours after proclaiming midler a psycho, and Charles Schumer, ah creep, he exalted soldiers bravery, while dismissing his avoidance of service in Vietnam, calling it a country. Nobody heard of he toasted Britain's Queen at Buckingham Palace banquet after calling London's mayor a loser before leaving the U K for his golf resort in Ireland. The president sat down for a wide ranging interview at turns out with his friend, and former celeb-. Liberty apprentice contestant Piers, Morgan, who these days is the host of good morning, Britain, and among the many topics the two of them covered was Trump's military deferments during the Vietnam war you. Not able to serve invent because of the bugs spot conditioning. You'll fate de wish she'd been able to get Electra central. Well, I was never a fan of that war. I'll be honest with you. I thought it was a terrible war. I thought it was very far away nobody ever. You know, you're talking about Vietnam at that time. This isn't like I'm fighting against Nazi Germany. I'm fighting fighting against Hitler lunches, generally, but I would not have minded that at all I would've been honored but I think I make up for it right now. I look seven hundred billion dollars, I gave last year, and then this year, seven hundred sixteen billion dollars, and I think I'm making up for rapidly because we're rebuilding our military. The interview also covered Trump's thoughts on a possible war with Iran has view of Hitler and Winston Churchill and what the president told the Queen about her nation's next prime minister did I was saying to the Queen list the choice of your next prime minister is a very important church. Charles really have to get it, right. You see similarities in you'll solve to Winston judge what I see with him as he was able to handle pressure, very well, I mean, people forget that. At that time. Hitler was virtually unstoppable. He was going through countries like cheese, wall drums, beating about Iran. You will need to take military action. There's always a chance to I want to know I'd rather not. But there's always a chance. I'd like to end the interview we have a little gift for you, because we're in the church will war. This is what Britain's greatest leader, well and Easter where these famous. So we've had one made you I like this is a she'll out executive style. He used to wear it. Let me try this. These it'd be great. It's a little big can get that. That's fun. While meeting this afternoon with Ireland's prime minister Trump turned his attention back to a growing political crisis at home, his threat to impose tariffs on Mexico, unless Mexico stems the flow of migrants coming to the US, Southern border illegally. I actually go to step up, but if they don't terrorist we'll go on this, wrapping up. What are the coming up by the millions Mexico could stop it. They have to stop it. Otherwise, we'd just won't be able to do business. It's versus thing, and I think they will stop it. I think they want to do something. I think they wanna make deal and they sent their top people to try to we'll see what happens today. We should know something also tonight after senior officials from the White House and the Mexican government both met for about an hour and a half ending with no agreement. The president wrote talks with Mexico will resume tomorrow with the understanding that if no agreement is reached tariffs at the five-percent level will begin on Monday with monthly increases as per schedule. The higher the tariffs, go, the higher, the number of companies that will move back to the USA, Republican senators opposed to the tariffs warned the White House. They're prepared to block Trump's move. Tonight. NBC news reports Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell has asked the administration to please delay the tariffs until repeal. Publican lawmakers can perhaps meet personally with Trump. Meanwhile over in the house, the talk of impeachment is not dying down there are now over sixty members of congress in favor of opening an inquiry today, speaker Pelosi warned there's no guarantee that impeachment would automatically mean the end of this presidency. Dino most people think that impeachment names, you're out of office. They think that you can impeach you're gone, and that is completely not true. It's an indictment. So when you impeaching somebody, you want to make sure you had the strongest possible indictment, because it's not the means to the end, the people think all you do photo. Impeach bye, bye birdie our last bit of news. Here is news on the House Democrats efforts to get special counsel Robert Muller to testify in person House Judiciary committee, chairman Jerrold Nadler was sounding optimistic today. This is. What you need to subpoena. We. City, we'll have we have to longer. We he late. Not too much here for our leadoff discussion on a Wednesday night. Peter Baker, chief White House correspondent for the New York Times tall copen Washington correspondent for the San Francisco, Chronicle, Philip Brooker Pulitzer prize winning White House bureau chief, for the Washington Post and here in our New York studios, Jeremy bash. Former chief of staff at CI and the Pentagon, former chief counsel for the house intelligence committee, Jeremy with you here in New York. I'd like to begin with you. What kind of message has our president sent the world? These past three days in Iraq. One in uncertain one now on the seventy fifth anniversary of d day an American president should symbolize confronting tyranny. He should symbolize the union between the United States and our transatlantic allies. He should symbolize confronting aggression confronting the anti-democratic forces, which are very much alive and well in the form of lining Putin in Russia and elsewhere in the world. But instead, Brian the president is sending Radic tweets criticizing the Royal fan. Family, making comments about things that have nothing to do with his trip or the solemnity of this day. And I think it really detracts it detracts from our observance of the seventy fifth anniversary of and the heroism and bravery of the people who stormed those beaches to keep the free world free. And it also detracts from American security because I think it says doubt in everybody on the continent as to whether or not America and the American president can be relied upon trusted upon during very chaotic times Peter Baker in your reporting. Do you think there has ever been any effort in house to get this president to be a more composed figure, especially going into a daylight tomorrow? People are already holding their breath as to, which Donald Trump, we're gonna get. Yeah. I think they look they long ago, recognize of course, that President Trump is President Trump and trying to change him as sort of a fool's errand. They can tell him all day like with the way they think they ought to. He ought to comport himself, but it's really going to depend on how he feels and he does show and. Interesting. You know, split screen to show, does quote the article that you're you put up from our paper tonight, and the ability to, to be on good behavior when he standing next to the Queen, for the most part, when you say, clinking glasses with Prince Charles, when he's reciting FDR famous words, and then you know, he has free time back though towel or something. And he's up at one thirty five in the morning or something. And then there's suddenly this, you know, tweet storm about Bette midler other folks, and it's just it's very jarring contrast between the presidential and the and the non-presidential, and that's been the characteristic trait of his, his presidency now for two and a half years and Phil worker. We saw again, in the Piers Morgan interview he welcomes new topics as new conversational opportunities, and Brian, he welcomes these new topics as a way to keep it interesting. And, and keep the news media focused on him. You know, most presidents when they travel overseas, half a very carefully scripted and choreographed mess. That they plan to deliver on behalf of the United States, and they or they organized their trip based around presenting that image with Trump. It's, you know, whatever comes at it, and he's gonna respond to, whether it's that, you know, monologue about the Vietnam war, which went into all sorts of areas or his comments on climate change. It was really striking for example, that he said that he was so surprised that Prince Charles would be focused on climate change for future, generations and not just focused on himself. While of course, most people who, who lead countries focused on the citizens of their countries in the future generations, but, you know, look, President Trump is just taking what's coming at him. And it started before he even left the United States with the comment about Megan Markle being nasty. Hey, tall tickets to the Mexican border by way of what looked like the Roosevelt room are these meetings, perhaps for air cover to a kind of pre message a change in the. The coming days, especially if we are to believe there's genuine, Republican, though, again, largely silent resistance, this one is a really hard one to game out Brian, and it's because this is one of those areas, where Trump is just so unpredictable, you know, I spoke with in particular California's House Republicans, there are now just seven of them, but I chase down as many of them as I could. And all of them said, they don't want the tariffs to go on, but they said that Trump has the right to threaten it to bring Mexico to the table. But keep in mind important context here, Mexico has been steadily stepping up its efforts to work with the US to interdict migrants in their country for years. They have actually been deporting more migrants than the US in some recent years, tens of thousands a year. They're offering tens of thousands bore now asylum in Mexico or other kinds of visas to stay they're taking them away from the border. They are doing a great deal what they don't want to do is to have to completely militarize. Their own country and are routes that are completely controlled by the cartels, that this has been a persistent problem for Mexico. And so on the one hand, you could sort of see this as an effort to kind of bring them to the table, and then they'll all walk away with some sort of handshake agreement that doesn't really feel like a change, but everyone feels like they can claim victory, but you could just as easily see this as an instance, where Trump is dead set. And, you know, one of those California Republicans, I talked to said that is the sense, he is getting the Trump really seems to want to put these tariffs into effect, you feel back over to you in lieu of Donner and dancer, I'm gonna play for you, some Nadler, and Blitzer from the safter, noon, and pay special attention to how Nadler, talks about answers, the question about impeachment. Right now. There doesn't appear to be the support for it. Are you on the same page with the speaker, Nancy Pelosi when it comes to impeachment? As I said, we are launching an inquiry now and whether we'll want an impeachment inquiry. It may come to that. So fill this is important. In light of reporting, that's emerging from inside the democratic caucus of this isn't going to be easy for the speaker who has her membership. And as a subset of that, powerful, one these committee chairs. That's exactly right. Brian, she is dealing with a very sort of difficult and, and, and ever changing political situation within her own party. And it's troubling for President Trump because there appears to be growing momentum among Democrats to proceed with beginning impeachment proceedings, but there's not a majority within the democratic caucus to pursue impeachment and you have in Pelosi someone who's determined to do this in a methodical and slow way to avoid her party being accused of political witch hunt of being too partisan in pursuing the president's impeachment. And so she's determined. To wait for some evidence to come in. She wants to slow walk this, but she also trying to show her members that she's at least somewhat in agreement with him. Politico reported today that she actually said in a closed meeting with some of the democratic members of the house that she would like to see the president in prison. And that was a way of her sort of signalling to her own members that she's in agreement that she wants to see something happen here that she wants to see Justice for President Trump, even if she's not yet ready to, to pull the trigger on impeachment proceedings and toll back to you. She has set the bar high. She has used words like overwhelming regarding public support and evidence to go forward on impeachment, and one presumes. She's done this and said this for a reason. Yeah. Isn't overwhelming, one of those beautiful terms of art that doesn't have a specific definition. I mean look, Nancy Pelosi speaker of the house is concerned about one thing and one thing only, and that is dead. Democrats keeping the house majority, and that is always going to be on her mind. And she is not afraid of taking the hard position as a way of bringing the heat off other members of her party. So I don't see her as caving to pressure as long as she feels like her most vulnerable members, don't want to go anywhere near conversation about impeachment. She will keep them away from it. That is what she sees her job as being. And so, you know, there may come a time where she feels like or the caucus feels like they are ready to go there. But sixty members and keep in mind, it is also significant that she is not doing anything to restrain, the members that are talking about impeachment even chairs like Maxine Waters. Who's in a very powerful position. They have free rein to say what they want Nancy Pelosi Pelosi is giving them that leash. But until she wants vulnerable members talking about it. She will take the heat on keeping things moving slowly, great loves point there. Hey Jeremy as two lovers of history. If you gave us a laptop in about an hour. Because you and I have watched some of the very best do it. We could probably write a pretty fair speech to give tomorrow. At Normandy about the invasion and the sacrifice with that in mind. What should the American president say two more? I think he should save Brian fundamentally that day is a symbol. It's a symbol of the United States and Europe, working together to keep Europe whole and free to void the balkanisation the atomization of Europe, the reimposition of all the hyper nationalism, the neo-nationalism that seems to be sweeping these populist movements. He should say that America is going to support those who are going to push back against tyranny against tyrants against autocrats, like Vladimir Putin, but I don't think our American president is going to say that because as we've talked about so many times, Brian in such a troubling manner. Our president, not only sought, but he received and then welcomed the support from one of those off. Kratz Putin in the president's own election. Peter Baker talk about the bar where it is set for tomorrow. Well, I was pretty high. I mean everybody and everybody, but everybody a certain age anyway, remembers Ronald Reagan giving the speech during his presidency at that same place, the boys of point to hawk rock. Obama was with him five years ago when he addressed that same location. The, the meaning of the moment is so extraordinarily Jeremy just talked about it. So. Poignant with with history with, with solidarity with blood and sacrifice that it's, it would be a challenge to the best of orders and President Trump's strength as a speaker is not poetry. It's, it's, it's pugilists him. And so he's going to have to reach to his, you know, his best ability, I think to try to, to match the moment and it's a hard thing for him to do, but I think he has some speechwriters who I'm sure are working on the speech that may not be quite like Jeremy outlined, but we'll hopefully hit some high notes, and at least for one moment, at least recall, the moments when we were together with our European allies at this very critical moment, you know, Peter, I realized tonight, the first one of these animals reside covered was the fiftieth here. We are on the seventy fifth. We have live pictures tonight of that beachfront, which becomes almost a place of religious significance tomorrow. Zero. And of course, all those able body veterans who are able to be there are there and in place. We're going to have a word about it at the end of the broadcast tonight as well. So our thanks, go to Peter Baker to tell cope into Phil Rucker to Jeremy bash greatly appreciate you starting off our conversation here tonight and coming up a former high ranking department of Justice official says he's no longer shore. He can trust our current attorney general tonight here. We'll talk about why that is and later, the new polling on which of the many Democrats running has a chance of beating one Donald Trump. The eleventh hour is just getting started on this Wednesday night. Hi, it's Katy Tur want to keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go. Subscribe to the MSN BC daily newsletter you'll get the best of what you've missed during this unprecedented era of news, text MSNBC, two six six eight six six to subscribe. We find ourselves, I think for. The first time with an attorney general who really is the presence defense, lawyer, and spokesperson and who's quite good at it. And has the veneer of respectability to camouflage what he's doing. He is not the. Sofas. That Giuliani is he's much more dangerous. I think he is the second most dangerous man in the country for that reason, next week, the house of representatives is expected to vote to hold attorney general William bar in contempt of congress over access to the Muller full report and his investigative material bar has come under fire for his handling of the report's release and his apparent reluctance to fulfill requests from lawmakers as well as his decision to essentially clear, the president of obstruction. Former acting solicitor, general Neal Cacho, who wrote the current special counsel, regulations is the author of a piece in the Washington Post called bars zealous defensive Trump makes it impossible to trust his legal judgment in it. He writes, quote, bar has thrown himself in with Trump in ways on becoming to the nation's highest legal official his conduct in trying to clear Trump is of a piece with his baseless attacks on spying by the FBI and his defy. Science of Congress's subpoenas bar has shown himself to be an unreliable and unsteady voice careening from one position to the next always in favor of protecting his boss. We're pleased to welcome Neil Caccio back on the broadcast and Neil, it was a conflict you noted between two statements that bar has given separated by time that we're gonna play now for our audience. We'll discuss it on the other side. He could have reached a conclusion. The opinion says you can indict a president while he's in office, but he could have reached a decision as to, whether it was criminal activity. But he had his reasons for not doing it which he explained and I'm not going to argue about those reasons, but when he didn't make a decision. The deputy attorney general rod Rosenstein, and I felt it was necessary for us as the heads of the department to reach that decision. I think Jim Komi is as I've said is. Extremely gifted man who's served the country with distinction and many roles. But I thought that to the extent he will he actually announced to decision was wrong, and the other thing is, if you're not going to indict someone that you don't stand up there and unload negative information about the person that's not the way the department of Justice does business so counselor. What do you see right there? Yeah. So first Bryant. I don't take any joy in writing that piece, I love the Justice department I've really respected every Torney general regardless of party in the past. But I do feel like President Trump's anti-constitutional rot is infecting now the attorney general, the highest legal officer and the land. And in particular that clip. You just showed I think demonstrates the problem, you know, bar said last week to CBS that Komi could Rex meet that, that, that Muller could have reached a judgment that he thought it was fine that the office of legal counsel opinion that prohibits, indicting, sitting president doesn't mean that Muller couldn't have made a decision about obstruction of Justice. And when I watched that, and Brian, actually, you play a role in the sequence of events, actually, because when I watched that I was like, hi think I've discussed this with Brian, and realized that you and I were watching the confirmation hearing of one William bar. Together on your network, a few months ago and bar said exactly the reverse that actually Komi went out and criticized Komi for not when he didn't indict Hillary Clinton for then attacking Hillary Clinton. And he said that isn't what the Justice department does. That's not the way it does business you either indite or be quiet. And now he's saying something very different. And it just I think it furthers this underlying perception that we have an attorney general, who is willing to do anything, say anything to protect his boss, and that is not the job of the nation's chief law enforcement official Neil Washington is full of good people. Many of them in the law, who have been stunned at how pliant a man Bill bar has proven to be as attorney general these are people who lined up based on his past to give him the benefit of the doubt. When he was named to this job, who or what are the guardrails that exist within? In or around DOJ. Well, I mean, there are a number of career civil servants who I think our guest, I mean, literally, I hear from them every day in, and so I think they are really worried about what can happen, but unfortunately, the Justice department does put the attorney general in control of a lot of operations. And so when the attorney general does something to protect the president, and does so in ways that are really wanting and in dangerous than I think, unfortunately, the nation is stuck with it at least with respect to the Justice permit. There may be a role for congress. I think we'll start to see that next week. But internally the Justice department is set up so that the career officials can only give advice to the attorney general, but ultimately, the attorney general's call in your personal opinion as our last question all this energy, being expended. All this hubbub over getting Muller to personally testify in front of the house. Do you think it might be a case? Of be careful what you wish for. No. I think it's right that Muller should testify can understand Muller's reluctance to he doesn't want to create a public spectacle that I can also understand the house is reasons to get that I think Muller all he has to do is present. What was in the report because unfortunately bar in his four page summary, really clouded the debate cleared the president with really nothing to do with really. No support for that. And there's a really important piece that by Ryan Goodman, NYU law professor, which I put on my Twitter page, which goes through methodically, everything bar, said and everything Muller set and shows just how different they are. And I think Muller's really got to go before the house now and explain, this is the most serious inquiry imaginable, for our house of representatives. It is literally their job. And right now, the only thing that's clearing. The president are really two things. One is Trump's word and the second is bars. Word in increasingly those are looking like actually the same set of words. And so, I think we do need Muller to come forth. I think all Americans to read the report, and I do suspect that hearings are going to be launched in it. You can call it in an impeachment inquiry. You could call it something else, but Justice will ultimately be done, and the house of representatives is the place that starts DOJ veteran, Neil Caccia. Thank you for staying up with us. Thanks for coming back on the broadcast. We certainly appreciate it, and coming up for us tonight, Donald Trump says he hasn't seen a democratic hopeful yet that he thinks could beat him voters. In a few states are telling pollsters, something different, but it is awfully early yet. We'll talk about all of it when we come back. Democrat. But word, I don't see anybody that I would this is not there was no Winston Churchill in the group, let me put it that. He doesn't see Joe Biden as Winston and I think that would be a big upset if he was that would be that would be a big surprise to a lot of people know, there's nobody that I see that should be able to win as of today, by the way were inside eighteen months until the election. There's a new poll from CNN that has Joe Biden maintaining his lead among Democrats, former vice president is at thirty two percent, followed by Bernie Sanders at eighteen Kamla Harris at eight Elizabeth Warren at seven, and so on, on this network tonight at a town hall hosted by Chris. Hayes Senator Warren was asked about taking on Trump in general election. What do you say to people that say I like you on the substance? But I'm worried about your electability as the nominee of the Democratic Party. You know, I remember when people said Barack Obama couldn't be elected. I remember when people sit Donald Trump couldn't be elected also true. And here we are elections are about getting in there and fighting for it, and making clear to the American people, what you stand for I got in this race because an America that keeps working better and better and better for a thinner and finisher slice at the top to go to work here with us to talk politics than I John Ralston veteran journalist, and editor at the Nevada independent, and our own national political correspondent, Steve Kornacki, gentlemen. Welcome to you. Both steve. I'm kind of fascinated CNN in their poll asked a straight up question and you know, this is coming. Do you think Trump will win in twenty twenty? Yes, fifty four no forty one Steve that yes, way exceeds what we are taught is his base. So explain those numbers then it's early. Well it's, it's early. But I mean I look at that and I just see there's a hangover from. 2016. I think if that's the right term, probably for a lot of Democrats probably for a lot of Democrats who looked at polls throughout the entire twenty sixteen campaign, and they saw that there was no number knee who'd ever been is unpopular as Trump was. There was no nominee who'd ever had numbers as low as Trump when it came to think this person is competent. Do you think this person is qualified to be President Trump was off the charts low when it came to all those questions in two thousand sixteen and yet, even Democrats who didn't like him watched him win? Anyway. And so, I think they look now a certain number of Democrats, Republicans probably just want Trump to win an answer. Yes. But I think a certain number of Democrats. Look at it, and they say, well, his job, approval may be low. He may be coming off a rough midterm, but we remember 2016. Hey, john. I got two states for you here. I have polls from Michigan and Texas. I up. Michigan shows Biden up twelve Sanders. Notably also up twelve Buddha, judges. The other headline here up sex, Warren and Harris. Let's go to Texas. And this gets you closer to the margin of error with Biden up for. And then you see all the results in ruby. Red Texas for the Democrats, John. What do you make of it? Or do you make nothing of it because it's too damn early? Well, yeah, I think Brian the most important number. I've heard so far from you tonight is eighteen that is eighteen months away from the election. I don't think he can discern a lot from this. And so, at the risk of the great Steve Kornacki disagreeing with me, which I would never want to happen on national television, I will say that none of these numbers mean that much outside of obviously a Biden has name recognition, and all these states. He does in the Vada too. He's ahead. In a couple of polls, I've seen here, although not as much as in some others. Those Texas numbers are the most interesting ones to me, though, Brian, if those are real that is, that is warning beacon for, for team Trump because of Texas is. Really like that right now that, that could be a real problem for the president. Steve kornacki. Your name is invoked you get an automatic rebuttal here. Here's how here's one way. I think these numbers do matter connects to the first question you just asked there that shows a majority of voters right now, saying they think Trump's getting reelected, in that includes, a substantial number of people relatively speaking, who don't like Trump in don't wanna see him get reelected, in that tells me, how important that issue of electability is going to be the democratic primary voters, and we can go on and on with this debate about, how do you measure electability? How do you define it? It's an inexact thing. But to the extent it matters. Particularly democratic voters heading into twenty twenty if this becomes a trend where you take a poll in a state like Texas in. There's Joe Biden leading, and there's every other democratic candidate trailing when you look at that, that sort of culture on the democratic side, right now that's valuing elect to -bility, if that's something we keep seeing Biden outperforming the rest of the democratic field. I think these polls start mattering very much in the. Democratic race. I both of these gentlemen have agreed to stay with us and coming up more on what's motivating voters a full eighteen months ahead of this presidential election. Donald Trump, as president delayed, deflected move, fired, and did everything he could to obstruct Justice, if he were any other person in the United States, based on what's documented in that report, he would be Terry d- out in handcuffs. It was Senator Elizabeth Warren, who was the first democratic presidential candidate to call for Trump's impeachment. Once that Muller report was out, and as we mentioned here last night. Former Senate majority leader, Harry Reid of searchlight, Nevada now supports an inquiry telling Susan page, the great USA today, veteran writer, quote, it's not the right thing to do nothing Reid said, in an interview Monday, it's not the right thing to jump into impeachment without doing an inquiry most important goal. He said, would be to give the American people of you of what's going on back with us. John Ralston and Steve Kornacki. John. We're out there. We're not, what would Nevada like to see out of this congress, perhaps, if not impeachment and is there anything easier candidly, for Harry Reid to say from the cheap seats. Then maybe we should we should proceed with impeachment. You know, I think it's interesting Brian, let me answer the first question about what, what, what folks out here thinking there are a lot of people out here on the left and the Democratic Party who really want to see impeachment. You can see them very active on social media as you can almost anywhere talking about. Let's not take it slow, you're being too careful. Nancy Pelosi on Harry Reid. I think people need to know Harry Reid is a huge admire of Nancy Pelosi. He is. He said very nice things about her in his book, he, I bet he talks to Pelosi more than he talks to his old friend Chuck Schumer. That's how close they are. So I think he was on the Nancy Pelosi track for a while. But then he said this, and whether he said this tour privately before he said publicly, I I'm not sure Bryan, but he was sending a message. Of course. He's in the cheap seats now. But Harry Reid, most of all, and I, you know, I followed him Brian for for thirty five years is a politically. Rootless strategist he understands the way the winds are, are going to blow. He thinks that maybe it's time for a little nudge to start moving this along. And so I think he's sending a signal to Nancy Pelosi and two other Democrats that maybe we need to start doing something because doing nothing is really going to a road maybe parts of our base. Steve kornacki. That's a great point about the cagey veteran democrat out there in Nevada. How will you know when the Pelosi standard of overwhelming is reached are you going to be looking at Gallup to see one it's more above water than below? Yeah. I mean it's interesting right now because the democratic base is there. There's not unanimity on the democratic side. But there's strong majority very strong majority support for impeaching just among democratic voters. But then, that's the dilemma that Pelosi faces she? She looks at it. Harry Reid was there in ninety. Eight Pelosi was. There in ninety eight and that's your point of reference. I think this, the politics of the Clinton impeachment, the Republican base wanted to impeach Bill Clinton, the rest of the country wasn't there. They thought it was a step too far. The Republicans calculated, hey, we gotta keep our base happy. There was a midterm election coming up in ninety eight so they went forward with it, and then the rest of the country delivered a message in the midterm election in ninety eight and it costs, Newt Gingrich the speaker of the house, his job. So I think that's the point of reference for Pelosi. And I really just get the sense. She needs to see those overall poll numbers change. In a way that says, hey, it's not just Democrats where there it's the broader country. And because I like to quote Rick Wilson at least once a week, his argument is if impeach Trump runs as a martyr raises one hundred million dollars off of it, and walks into reelection. I'll look at the time John Ralston Steve. Kornacki, gentlemen. Thank you, both for adding so much to our conversation on a Wednesday night coming up for us the road to Miami goes through a state where their chief exports to the world include clam, chowder, and Tom. Tom Brady and where they take their politics, very seriously. We'll have that when we come back. There. It is three weeks from tonight, the first democratic debates right here on this network. It's a two night event kicks off Wednesday, June twenty six again, there may be periodic reminders on this network that this event is coming tonight. We're continuing our new series of reports the road to Miami as our own Steve Kornacki, breaks, down everything we need to know about the critical states all along the teaming and vital north-south Carter of I ninety five last night. We were in the granite state of New Hampshire tonight, we are crossing into the bay state, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts still with us a man who, like my own father is a veteran a native of Massachusetts, Steve Kornacki, Steve dry. That's right away. I'm back in my home state, very excited here, there is so much I could tell you about Massachusetts about the bay state, but let's stick to the politics. One thing on this road to Miami. Heading south to Florida. There is probably not. A bluer state that we will go through then Massachusetts. In fact, there was a book that came out a few years ago that called Massachusetts, but bluest state, here's one way to put that in perspective, what you're looking at here is the congressional district map for Massachusetts. You don't see any red here nine congressional districts right now, every one of them represented by democrat. And guess what it is Ben this way for a generation in Massachusetts. The last time Republicans won a single house district in Massachusetts. You've got to go all the way back to nine thousand nine hundred ninety four Democrats are undefeated in house election since then no other state. This big has a streak like that for Democrats, Massachusetts produces a lot of democratic politicians. It also produces a lot of presidential candidates. There are three candidates for president right now who are from the state of Massachusetts three of them trivia question. Can you name him? Well, the first one, we all know Elizabeth Warren. She's running on the. Democratic side, townhall here on MSNBC tonight who else for Massachusetts. Seth Moulton congressman one of those Democrats is one congressional elections in Massachusetts. He's running. Although he's got a big test ahead, I bait coming up in a couple of weeks. He may not qualify for that debate. He's going to need some big news in polling, maybe or donations the next week or molten won't make it and there is a third presidential candidate for Massachusetts who is it? It's not a democrat. It's a Republican. It's one of the rare Republicans to actually win election in Massachusetts. Bill weld, the former governor of Massachusetts running against Donald Trump in the Republican primaries, I say Bill weld was governor of Massachusetts. He was governor of Massachusetts. Oh, while ago you got to go back to the nineteen nineties he was elected in ninety reelected in ninety four. And there've been a lot of different versions of Bill weld since those gubernatorial days, number one, he tried to become ambassador to Mexico. That's Jesse Helms who blocked his appointment back in ninety seven, by the way, look, who's looking on there. That's Joe Biden's we tried to be. Well, did the ambassador to Mexico that didn't work any move to New York? He ran for governor of New York in two thousand six lost at the state Republican convention, so that didn't work out for him. Then in twenty sixteen he was the vice presidential candidate of the libertarian party running with Gary Johnson. You see them together there. He's moved back to Massachusetts. And now rejoin the Republican party and is running for president, as we say against Trump in the primary. So he's up against what is welled up against in this challenge. Here's one way to put it in perspective. Here is Donald Trump's approval rating with Republican voters eighty nine percent. And it's just constantly at that level is entire presidency presidents who have received challenges in their own party primaries. Where were they with their own party's voters when those challengers emerged? The Bush senior Seventy-three percent Carter was at forty percent with Ted Kennedy ran against him Gerald Ford was at sixty percent. You don't see numbers like that, like Trump's number from. A president who face trouble with Nixon was at two percent. That was another challenge from Pete mcclosky that got much traction. So eighty nine percent Trump with Republicans that is one heck of a hurdle for well to overcome and what that translates into his. Here's a recent poll out of New Hampshire Trump seventy-two, well, twelve Republicans in New Hampshire a lot of them have heard of weld from his Massachusetts days. That's the kind of hurdle, he faces. They're just a president who has uniquely strong support with his own party outside the Republican party, obviously a different story, but Trump has a challenger and he's from Massachusetts. So we thought we would share that with you tonight. Right. Proud, Massachusetts native were awfully happy to have you here. Now, though, Steve Kornacki. Thank you very much. Look forward to tomorrow night, coming up for us on this Wednesday what it was like. And what was happening at this exact time, seventy five years ago when all we asked of our young men was to go and save the world. This night, seventy five years ago. Tonight was an uneasy evening across the beautiful Normandy, region of France. The occupying German troops spent the night chasing down rumors and random reports of troop and ship and plane, sightings people saw things. They heard noises across the French countryside. Members of the French resistance knew they knew what was coming, they'd been signaled days before when a three line snippet of poetry was read aloud on the BBC that was their signal. That's what told them that the allies would becoming by this. Exact time on that morning. Operation overlord was already underway, you know, to this day you can go out and walk in the craters of the American bombs at low tide. You can see the equipment, the allies left behind, and in some cases, died in, you can stand in the German bunk. And look out at the Atlantic, as, as they did when they realized they were about to die ninety seven percent of the men who fought in World War. Two are gone the remainder won't be with us, sadly, much longer today, a ninety seven year old veteran of the one hundred first airborne reenacted, the parachute jump. He had I made as a young man this time around he got to jump in daylight. He did it for all of his brothers, and he did it because he could for all who remain with us, and all who were lost let June six, which is now just moments away stand as a fitting, seventy fifth anniversary memorial to the boldest invasion in the history of modern warfare, the Titanic undertaking that cleared the way to the defeat of the Nazis. Let's hope for all time that is our broadcast for this Wednesday night. Thank you so much for being here with us. Good night from our NBC news headquarters here in new. New york. Hi, it's Mika Brzezinski here. Wanna keep up with morning Joe. 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Rpt: Nadler pushed Pelosi to start impeachment inquiry

The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell

44:52 min | 1 year ago

Rpt: Nadler pushed Pelosi to start impeachment inquiry

"Now it's time for the last word with Lawrence O. Donald good evening. Rachel and the high amendment has been the law of the land since one thousand nine hundred seventy six I believe basically saying that no federal money can be used an abortion, and that was as settled as settled issues. Get in Washington until today, because of course, Joe Biden has been around long enough that he was in a position to have to vote on that, and take a position on that as everyone did in the congress, then. And so it's back as an issue. I gotta say I for one didn't see that coming. I will tell you, I think that Senator Biden vice-president Biden saying today, his campaign saying today that he stands by that, that he still believes in the high demand, and he still thinks that's good law. I think that is a position that will not outlive, the democratic presidential primary, I think that women have led, I think Hillary Clinton on two thousand sixteen in two thousand sixteen lead on the issue of the Hyde amendment. The politics on this changed without vice. President Biden noticing the politics. On this have radically changed. And if he sticks with that he's going to drag that like an albatross around his neck with democratic women voters. And I think that positions going to change it is because in, in the Biden time in the Senate, it was always looked on as something that actually protected Democrats, because they always got to say. Being pro-choice Democrats that no federal money was used for abortion. And so it was used as kind of political shield by Democrats. It was, and then Hillary Clinton blew it up because the way the Hyde amendment works in real life is incredibly discriminatory in terms of reproductive rights access for different types of women in this country. And so she took that on, I think, really, I think she, she undid that, that those years of Democrats using that as a shield and trying to avoid the argument and that is what broke the dam on it when Clinton did that. And I think that just Biden, didn't notice and he's gonna get destroyed on that issue by his fellow candidates in the first debate. I'm guessing. Well, it's very clear that, that one of the big challenges for the Biden campaign is staying agile enough to not just twenty-first-century politics. But what is now going to be twenty twenty politics? And it's a different ball game as you say from two thousand sixteen or two thousand eight. Yeah. And it's I mean it reminds me of that. Aleksandra Qazi Cortez. Tweet back at Joe Lieberman. New party who? When women have have a different idea about that now and the women are leading the party. So it will be fascinating to see. Thank you, original. Thanks loans. Well, we have highlights of Elizabeth Warren's, townhall in Indiana tonight with Chris, Chris Hayes, including what some Trump voters had to say the House Judiciary committee is under tremendous pressure. These days on the question of impeachment, but the committee is proving that they can legislate and investigate at the same time, a House Judiciary committee. Bill went to the house floor yesterday and passed with two hundred and thirty seven votes. It provides legal status for dreamers and a path to citizenship. Some Republicans actually voted for that Bill and then today we learned that President Trump has new cruelties planned for the children being held at the southern border no more English classes, no more playing soccer. You'll want to hear the passion but freshman congressman Jona goose the son of immigrants from east Africa brought to this subject on the house floor. We will show you that video. From the house floor at the end of this hour, and Carson goose will join us. He is a member of the House Judiciary committee. So we will also ask him about the crucial question of impeachment that the committee is now face Republican presidential candidate Bill. Well, former governor Massachusetts, and a former federal prosecutor will also join us tonight. We will ask him if he supports impeachment proceedings against President Trump, and we begin tonight with the chairman of the House Judiciary committee, Jerry Nadler, who has expressed new confidence today that Robert Mueller will testify to his committee and an engineer with NBC news chairman Nadler said this. Thin with them. All. This is so what you need to subpoena him to make that we. In city, we'll have we have to go. He late commenting, not too much later. In an interview on CNN chairman Adler said it may very well, come to a formal impeachment inquiry. We will see today house speaker Nancy Pelosi was asked if she was feeling pressure from the several democratic presidential candidates who now support impeaching, the president looking ahead to next week and votes that are anti disciplined for a contempt. Have you made decisions about any penalty mechanisms that you would like to see and then more broadly? Are you feeling any influence from the twenty twenty contenders and the electorate more broadly about any actions? You might take well, first of all, the chairman again, I'm very proud of the work of the committees six great committees of following the facts and making decisions about how we go forward. This is judiciary committee, largely. Could be more by Tuesday. We'll see how the administration response to the intelligence committee more and that and that we go from there. So that's going to take it one step at a time. No, I'm not feeling any pressure and let me just adjust that I see in some metropolitan journals and on some TV that we kind of find our way or unsure. But make no mistake. We know exactly what path were on. We know exactly, what actions we need to take. There are now sixty one members of the house representatives, including one Republican who have made public statements in favor of starting impeachment proceedings against President Trump. We don't know how many silent members of the house are in favor of half of the twenty four Democrats on the House Judiciary committee. Now support an impeachment inquiry a new morning. Consult poll out today shows that thirty eight percent of Americans believe that congress should start impeachment proceedings against the president and forty eight percent believe that congress should not in a new article in G Q, entitled, the political costs of not impeaching Trump, former Senate staffer Adam gentlemen writes, Richard Nixon's approval rating was at sixty five percent when his impeachment process began and only nineteen percent of the public supported his impeachment by the end the numbers had flipped his approval was twenty four percent and support from payment was fifty seven percent. Tonight on an Indiana voter asked Senator Elizabeth Warren of bottom payment. She said this. The Muller report came out in the afternoon, it came out, I say down and started reading it and read it all afternoon. And I read it all night already it into the next morning, all four hundred and forty eight pages. I got to the end and there were three things that are just man. There's no avoiding part one. A hostile foreign government attacked are twenty sixteen elections for the purpose of getting Donald Trump elected part to VIN candidate Donald Trump welcomed that help and part three when the federal government tried to investigate part one and part two Donald Trump, as president delayed, deflected move, fired and did everything he could to obstruct Justice, if he were any other person in the United States, based on what's documented in that report, he would be Terry d- out in. Handcuffs now. I took an oath of office, not to Donald Trump not to any president took an oath of office to the constitution of the United States of America. And that constitution says no one is above the law, including the president of the United States. This is politically tough again, but some things are bigger than politics, and this matters for our democracy, not just now but under the next president, and the next president, and the next president, we have a constitutional responsibility here, and that's to start this impeachment proceedings. Tonight. The question is, what is happening in the house of representatives? And there is a new report in politico tonight at this hour saying that and I'm quoting from the report about chairman Nadler and speaker Pelosi disagreeing about this politico says Nadler, pressed Pelosi to allow his committee to launch an impeachment inquiry against Trump. The second such request. He's made in recent weeks. Only to be rebuffed by the California, Democrat and other senior leaders Pelosi stood firm reiterating that she isn't open to the idea of impeaching Trump. At this time. So are Democrats waiting for the voters to come to impeachment or are the Democrats leading the voters toward impeachment. And for the view from inside the house of representatives. We are very fortunate tonight to be joined by a senior member of the house of veteran of the Clinton impeachment proceedings, Texas. Democrat Lloyd Doggett, who is a member of the powerful House Ways and means committee. Also with us. Adam gentlemen, who served on the Senate staff of Senate majority leader, Harry Reid and carbon dioxide, let me begin with you and your reaction to this reporting in politico that has just come out that indicates that chairman now Bler has basically been trying to get the okay from speaker Pelosi to move to impeachment proceedings. And speaker Pelosi is opposing that is that your understanding of where it stands tonight. Well, I haven't verified that report or talk with him since flying out today. But, you know, personally I've come to the conclusion. And not eagerly and not quickly that instituting impeachment proceedings is what we must do. And I believe that a majority of the judiciary committee feels that way. And perhaps chairman, Nadler, who's done an extraordinary job is reflecting not only is own views, but that of his committee, I came to that conclusion because I don't see our actions thus far as being an effective response to the total obstruction of the Trump administration. And I think the clip you just showed of Senator Warren, who's always ticket and powerful really summed it up. Well, we have a duty to the constitution and a duty to our democracy that we must fulfill, not only because Donald Trump appears to have engaged in criminal conduct. But because we're setting the precedent for future presidents cars from Doug, I'm sure, you have a high degree of sympathy for Democrats, especially newly elected Democrats in swing districts who've taken seats away from Republic. Pins that could easily go back to Republicans in another election. A democrat from Texas in the house representatives knows that there's another party out there. Obviously, the used to be a lot more Democrats from Texas in the house of representatives do you? How do you see the politics of this for those colleagues of yours in those swing districts who run that risk who have to who have to calculate much more carefully? What this would mean to Republicans in their district and Republicans who could otherwise be willing to continue to support that democratic member. Well, they'll that whole issue figures, prominently in the speakers thinking thirty one Democrats in districts that Trump carried a very concerned about not only replacing Trump ultimately. But ensuring that we have a Democratic Congress finally that can respond to a new president and move forward on the issues. We all. Care about so much. You know, I think the effect is mixed, but my experience has always been that if you stood firmly and clearly for your principles and defined them that people would respect them. Even a time of great division like this. I believe that most of my colleagues in those districts who are forceful who explained clearly, and who and we begin to lay out to the public. We're always told we'll the Senate will never convict. I think we have a responsibility to, to do the preceding if we conclude that impeachment is appropriate. The final judgment is not only that of the Senate, but of the American people who may be the ultimate voters on this issue in November of next year, and they need to be fully informed about all the crimes that the president apparently committed Adam gentlemen, the kind of political considerations that I was just raising that we know have been raised with the speaker about the risks involved for Democrats moving. Impeachment, and how that could risk the positions of democratic house members in swing districts that is countered by your new piece about the risk the political risk. You're talking about the political risk of not impeaching Donald Trump. What is that risk for the Democrats? Well, if you want to put it clearly in political terms, which I do. The risk is, is low turnout. I mean that's what you're talking about here. The risk is that we spend the time between now and election day seventeen months having these kind of arguments. I mean these kind of politico stories about disagreements within the caucus rather than uniting behind an effort to use the power. The House Democrats have and wielded effectively to hold Trump accountable. I wrote in the piece about my experience in the Senate when America Ireland was up for confirmation, and McConnell blocked him. And, you know there were some extreme measures we could've taken, but we looked at the polls that showed Hillary Clinton confidently beating Donald Trump. And we said, you know don't let's not rock the boat. Let's not do anything extreme win. The election of president, Hillary Clinton will send her supreme court nominee to be confirmed by Democratic Senate. It didn't work out that way, when you have the opportunity to wield power against your opponent politically, you should use it and courage, dug out and gentlemen, makes the point in his piece that one of the biggest risks politically that the Democrats run in their current. Mr. is the risk of looking weak by the failure to take action. I think Adam has a very important article the focus has been mostly on the, what would the cost be to Democrats of impeaching and not enough on the cost of failing to do our job and sitting on our hands? We were elected to defend the constitution, and our democracy, and to stand up to Donald Trump when he's wrong the evidence out there is really for reaching, and I think we need to do our job not sit on our hands. There's no reason that we can't continue to attempt to legislate, as we did this week as you noted very important action on the dream act as we have done week after week and sending bills to the Senate that the Senate will probably sit on. But that's not a reason to avoid eye responsibility to protect the democracy by demanding accountability from this president and it seems the Democrats many Democrats in the leadership anyway, are. Using the experience of the Clinton impeachment, and that's something that cars from dog at sat through the house representatives, and their lesson is that the Clinton impeachment didn't work of Bill Clinton. The Republicans failed politically on that and Bill Clinton remained popular, what are your lessons from the Clinton impeachment that you would apply here and would not apply here? I mean look, the main lesson that I think is safe to apply most circumstances. Is that getting impeached as bad, it's just not a good thing to happen to a president? The Clinton situation was different than what we have now because Bill Clinton was was popular Ken Starr was not the public thought Ken Starr was on a fishing expedition, and they thought Bill Clinton was being treated unfairly that is completely different than what we have now where you have a president who is storage unpopular, and you have Robert Muller, who the public thinks has been extremely fair. Bill Clinton never stood for election, after he got impeached. So we don't really know how it would have played out. We do know that his era. Current Al Gore went on to lose an election that he could have one given that he was inheriting a booming economy. So there's an argument that it played out negatively politically in that respect. But the, the closest analogy is really the Nixon situation where the evidence against Nixon was severe, and it was overwhelming and it took a president who is at sixty five percent down out of office. So I think that is a much more appropriate comparison to make than the Clinton situation gentlemen. And Carson Lloyd Doggett. Thank you, both very much restoring often, it really appreciate. Thank you. And coming up. I will ask the only Republican running for president against Trump Bill weld where he stands on impeachment. Hi, it's Katy Tur. Wanna keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go. Subscribe to the MSN be daily newsletter. You'll get the best of what you've missed or in this unprecedented era of news, text MSNBC two six six eight six six to subscribe. This is the first presidential campaign. We've seen where candidates face the constant question. Are you for or against the impeachment of the current president of the United States? Richard Nixon, and Bill Clinton were in their second terms, when congress initiated impeachment proceedings, so that puts a new dynamic in presidential campaigning. Most of the highest polling democratic presidential candidates for presidents have clearly come out in favor of impeachment. But what about the Republican candidate for president running against Donald Trump for Massachusetts? Governor Bill weld has some personal history with impeachment proceedings his first job in Washington was as a staff. Lawyer working on the House Judiciary committee with then Hillary Clinton as a staff lawyer doing the legal homework as the committee approached impeaching the president later, Bill weld resigned as the head of the criminal division of the Justice department over a scandal. Invoke. Moving attorney general, Edwin Meese, who was a wells boss, at the time and turn general Meese had been accused of using his office to enrich, his personal friends. Indications this morning that the legal problems surrounding attorney general, Edwin Meese may force more defections from the Justice department. The department was rocked Tuesday by the resignation of deputy attorney general own burns, and he was followed out the door by William Weld. Head of the criminal division both called it quits after they were unable to persuade the White House to dump me on grounds that his legal troubles are hurting. The department officials say, Meese was stunned and was hardly able to speak with told the resignations. Join us now news Bill weld, former Republican governor of Massachusetts. He is running for the Republican presidential nomination against President Trump. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Governor really appreciate Accu Lawrence always a pleasure. Let's go straight to the question of the day. Are you for impeachment of this president? You know, Lawrence, I've been slow to come to this conclusion, but I've finally come to the view that it is time I won't say pastime, but it's time for the House Judiciary committee, not the whole house to launch an inquiry not take a vote, but inquiry into impeachment of this president, and I said that for two reasons, one in recent weeks, one thousand former federal prosecutors not ten not one hundred but a thousand have signed a document saying that the evidence of President Trump's obstruction of Justice in the mullahs report is not even a close case. It's overwhelming, and I agree with that. And I signed that document number two. I think people have lost sight of the time line here. The Nixon impeachment started in October of seventy three. President Nixon finally lost that in August of seventy four ten months later, well, ten months from today would put us into April, which is well past the Super Tuesday. Day of the presidential primaries in two thousand twenty so we probably would already know who the nominees are going to be your have a pretty good idea. And that's not the end of it at that point, if the house voted to impeach the house within a point, six managers as, as prosecutors to go try the case in the Senate. That's a minimum of another six eight months, and I can tell you as a former quite veteran prosecutor, a complicated investigation white color with long lead time grand jury investigations takes twelve to eighteen months. It doesn't take six months. So if the congress doesn't act at all now, this whole thing may be over before they can act. That's a pretty powerful motivator. Well, what you just said. First of all, you're breaking news here tonight as, as a Republican candidate for president saying that this president should be the subject of impeachment inquiry by the House Judiciary committee. How are you going to bring that to Republican voters in these Republican primaries? Well, again, I'm just saying thousand prosecutors say this is a criminal offence. You never had that before you didn't have that with dick Nixon, he'd carried forty nine states, you know, things change in national politics. My friend and hero. George Bush forty one was at ninety one percent favorable rating in December of nineteen Ninety-one. Pat Buchanan won thirty something percent of the vote in New Hampshire primary two months later. Now that was the beginning of the end for my friend Bush, forty one so things do things do shift around and. You know, it's not my job to carry it to Republican voters. I don't mind citing the one thousand federal prosecutors in saying that I know what they're talking about, because I do, but beyond that, if people won't be persuaded they won't be persuaded. It seems in the reporting that democratic leadership in the house is a worried about those swing voters in districts that congressional districts that were, formerly Republican people who voted for a Republican member of congress. But this last time voted for democrat, they're worrying about alienating them. You would be trying to appeal to exactly the same voter holding the position that there should be an impeachment inquiry. What does that do to your path to the convention to your ability to pick up delegates going into that convention Lawrence, the unstated premise of your question? I think is that nothing's going to change after the house committee launches its inquiry inquiries have a way of. Unearthing information and voters, generally. If new information comes to light, they're going to pay attention to it. And the Nixon impeachment Nixon was usually popular, I was advised, not, not to take a position in that inquiry, even though I was on the Republican side. They said kid, it's going to be the end of your career because the president is so popular. He just one forty nine states. Well, Mr. Trump is not just one forty nine states. He's not ninety one percent. Approval of both parties says Bush forty one was but nonetheless, you know, you don't know what the inquiry is gonna turn up. That's the point of inquiry. Again, I emphasize, I'm not saying the how should take vote. I'm saying, I'm saying the committee and that's the relevant committee. Peter Dino's committee, that I served on was House Judiciary that they should just be permitted to proceed. I'm sure they'll have subpoenas. I'm sure that would be fights president Nixon wound up being an article of impeachment was obstruction of the. Subpoenas by the House Judiciary committee, that could will come again, because Mr. Trump has said he's not going to cooperate with nobody know how if they investigate him or his administration or whose family at all. I mean that's got a breathtaking. That's never been said before by a president. We'll see where that goes a quick word governor on your path in this campaign. I'm sure you hope to do very well better than Pat Buchanan in New, Hampshire, your neighboring state of New Hampshire. Then what? Well, two paths Lawrence one is geographic. It would be the six New England states down into the mid Atlantic, then California, and the west Oregon Washington. Some of the mountain and inter mountain states where I spend a lot of time in the last cycle Utah. President Trump got fourteen percent of the vote there in the primary. President Trump and California. Just don't get along at all. So I think I can play an all those states and some in the southwest. And that leaves only the rust belt, and as has been pointed out, some of those states have changed their mind that President Trump won in two thousand sixteen the Republicans got blown away in two thousand eighteen in Wisconsin Pennsylvania, of course. It'll be a huge battleground state. And again, I'm just talking about the primary. Now I'm not talking about the final, you know, I wouldn't have a chance in California in the final as Republican. But in the primary, I think I'd have some good prospects against the president in terms of politics. I'm not going to try to convey. Vert the Trump organizations in the fifty states, the Republican state committee's, in those fifty states now are made an ordered by Donald Trump. I'm going to try to go around the, the that base, so to speak, that's a tiny base by enlarging the electric bringing in more millennials more genetic Sers more suburban women voters. I think these abortion laws of the last couple of weeks or a complete outrage there, the chattel theory of women, they impune gender equality. I think that's going to resonate Republican presidential candidate Bill. Well, thank you very much for joining us. Thank you, Lawrence, appreciate, when we come back, we have more highlights from Elizabeth Warren's, townhall in Indiana, where she was questioned by some Trump voters. Three weeks from the first democratic primary debates and tonight, democratic presidential candidate, Senator Elizabeth Warren was in Fort Wayne Indiana in a state. Donald Trump won by nineteen points for an MSNBC town hall with Chris Hayes on a day when Joe Biden said he supports the Hyde amendment, which bans federal funding of abortion, and has been federal law since nineteen seventy six Senator Elizabeth Warren was asked for her position on the high demand. Is your Biden? Yes. So why own? This. I've lived in America, where abortions were illegal and understand, this wouldn't still got abortions. Now, some got lucky on what happened and some really unlucky on what happened. But the bottom line is there, were there and the Hyde amendment under everyone if these efforts to try to chip away or to push back, where to get rid of Roe versus Wade, understand this women of means, we'll still have access to abortions who won't will be poor woman. We'll be working women. We'll be women who can't afford to take off three days from work. We'll be very young women. We'll be women who've been raped will be women who have been molested by someone in their own family. We do not pass laws that take away that freedom for the women who are most. Religion polling continues to get worse for President Trump. A new poll shows Deng Trump in trouble in Texas a state. The Republicans have won every presidential election since nineteen seventy six a Quinnipiac poll shows Joe Biden, actually beating Donald Trump in Texas by four points. Forty eight forty four os with Warren polls, the second strongest against Donald Trump in Texas tied within that margin of error at just forty five to forty six and a new poll from Michigan a state that was key to Donald Trump's electoral college victory shows the president trailing every democrat that every democratic candidate who was pulled in that election against Donald Trump. Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders are both ahead of President Trump by twelve points, fifty three to forty one Pete Buddha. Judge Elizabeth Warren. Kamala Harris are also ahead of Donald Trump in that Michigan poll, and Opole from morning. Consult shows nationwide problems for the president's approval rating, which is negative in the seven states that he that he won in two thousand sixteen seven important states that he won in two thousand sixteen. Joining us now is Maria. Teresa kamar. She's the president and CEO of voter Latino on MSNBC contributor, and Adam gentleman is back with us. Andrea Theresa very bad polling for the president and a new issue in the democratic primary as of today, the Hyde amendment, which has been federal law since nineteen seventy six has now moved into the center of the campaign. Well, let's be clear who, who are the folks that come out and vote, timing again, for the last six seven election cycles. It's been women. So when you start talking about reproductive health, when you start going toe to toe with women, the idea that you're not going to have given the agency over their bodies, and that you're basically, going to subjugate group of women, that are disproportionately may not have the means to do so you put them in danger, but they are also voting in record numbers, so that is one of the reasons why this is going to be a hot campaign issue. And you better believe that the day after that the president was inaugurated, we had women marching in drone in throw in throngs all over the country. It was because they recognized what the vulnerability was and women will stick together on this. And I think Joe Biden is going to have to figure out if he's going to advance his cause modernizes views and recognize that it's going to be the women that are gonna put him in office. I think when we're talking about the fact that the president is under water. That is not so surprising when you talk about when you talk about not only the issues that Americans really care about, but we go into places like Missouri, when you go into places. Like Michigan, and you're talking about tariffs that go directly impact individual lives in manufacturing on how much it's gonna cost for them to get all of a sudden items that they need for every day, whether it's clothing, so on and so forth. It becomes a very economic issue, and the presence going to have to figure out how he reconciles tariff, his tariff debates with actual bread and butter issues of making sure that we keep manufacturing alive and thriving. And people can actually pay their bills Elizabeth Warren actually wanted this town hall tonight to be in Fort Wayne, Indiana, because she wanted to go into the heart of Trump country, and she was asked a few things from Trump voters throughout the hour. Let's listen to one of those exchanges. I just feel like I've been betrayed letdown. I thought Trump was going to really secure American jobs, and that's just not what's happening. I'm looking to make about one point two million new jobs, new jobs that are good jobs that are jobs in manufacturing. They're going to be good union jobs. Jolson Elizabeth Lawrence surrounded by Trump voters there. The four of them sitting around there, right in the middle of town hall. Yeah. And I think what you, I mean, what, what came through for me. There was that. Senator Warren is working class person from Oklahoma. I mean that's her background. You know, she she is incredibly comfortable in those situations. I was reading a month or so ago she went to Kermit West Virginia to talk about the opioid crisis. I mean, these are people that she grew up with, she's incredibly comfortable and a person to person situation. I think that really came through there and Maria Teresa, one of the things we saw with those Trump voters in the town hall is their disappointment at what President Trump promised, for example, on the opioid crisis. That's one of the things that one of the Trump voters asked Elizabeth Warren about. Well, I think what you're finding is that they when they voted for Trump, they were basically most Americans were that voted for him. There were flipping a coin. They never fully recovered from the two thousand eight recession. They had lost their jobs. They saw things going south and like you know what we're going to give this businessman a try and this business businessman turned out to be basically. Con full of snakes in his back not promising them. Absolutely nothing in not changing their lives and instead impacting directly their livelihood. Again, specifically, I'm talking specifically. What's happening with tariffs? He has not addressed the opiate apathetic and he's not we every single week claims to be infrastructure. We and we have yet to see that what Elizabeth Warren is reminding the American people of what happens when you roll up your sleeves and you reinvest in our country when we reinvest in our infrastructure, and you get people back to work at the end of the day. The reason someone goes out to the polls is someone that's is for president was going to make their economic life, much better. And again, remembering and reminding ourselves that not every single American has actually covered from that recession. That is what people really care about in that is why they're looking for more middle of the road people. They're looking for folks that have big ideas Shas ideas to actually course correct the country where we are right now. So we're going to break, but before we do I wanted to hear from you on the breaking news from the Washington Post today about new cruelties that the president has in mind for the children in custody at the southern border. You know what is the most is appointing pieces that these individual detention centers are for profit. They are raking in the money while they max, they're basically taxing individuals, and creating maximum cruelty for young people. In this case, we're talking about miners who don't have their families are separated from, from the world in many ways, and they all they're asking for is basically, giving them some legal aid, so that they can actually have representation giving them the opportunity to learn English and giving them a chance to play soccer outside and present doubles down. The says we're not going to do that. Even though he knows that people are making record profits off these people's backs. We have no oversight. Right. Congress really. I mean, one of the reasons that so many people came out and voted in, in November was because they wanted to count ability, and we need congress to actually do that. Hold these people accountable and make sure that someone is paying for the suffering, that is that is being inflicted. Unnecessarily, routers, Omar and Adam Charleston. Thank you, both for joining our discussion tonight. Thank you, Lawrence enough. Louis break. When we come back, Senate Republicans have finally found their breaking point with Donald Trump. That's next. Senate Republicans have finally had it with Donald Trump. It wasn't the obstruction of Justice. It is not the Trump personal devotion to Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong UN. It was not the caging of children at the southern border, it's tariffs, which Senate Republicans are finally publicly admitting our taxes on the American people. Senate Republicans are breaking with President Trump over his threats to impose massive new taxes on everything. We import from Mexico, unless Mexico stops people from crossing our southern border, the Republican senators from Texas, where Joe Biden is now leading Donald Trump in the polls or the most adamant in their opposition to the threatened Trump tariffs were holding a gun to our own heads said Texas senior Republican Senator, John Cornyn, Texas junior Senator, Ted Cruz said, there's no reason for Texas farmers and ranchers and manufacturers and small businesses to. To pay the price of massive new taxes. We've been telling you for years now that the Trump tariffs are actually taxes on Americans, and now finally Republicans, admit that seven Republicans broke with the president yesterday in the house of representatives, and voted for the American dream and promise act of twenty nine thousand nine the Bill was delivered to the house floor by the House Judiciary committee, proving that the judiciary committee can legislate, and investigate the president at the same time, the Bill would grant legal status and a path to citizenship for young people who were brought to this country as children and have lived here, all of their lives. Freshman member of the House Judiciary committee, Joe negoti of Colorado rose in support of the Bill. I rise today, not just as a member of this body, not just as a proud American but is the son of immigrants is the son of African refugees who came to the United States. Who came to the United States over thirty five years ago from a war torn country in east Africa. They became naturalized citizens, and they never forgot nor took for granted the freedom and the opportunities that the United States of America gave them and their children that I am able to stand in this chamber with all of you today is proof that the American dream is real. And I wanted to be attainable for generations to come. That is why we must pay six today. Right now. Now. Right now, there or young people all across our country who no no other home. But the United States these kids are dedicated and willing to put in the hard work to earn a college education. They are excelling in their careers. They're contributing to our communities in countless ways every day. We cannot allow these young people to continue to live in fear to be at risk every single day of being ripped away from their lives. Losing everything that they know after this final break, we'll be joined by Carson goose. We'll ask him where he stands on impeachment as a member of the House Judiciary committee, and about that breaking news tonight about a conflict between chairman Nadler, and speaker Pelosi, and we will hear more of what he had to say fighting for the dreamers on the house floor. Mr speaker. I would like to offer a quote, and quote is as follows it is, bold men and women uring for freedom and opportunity who leave their homelands and come to a new country to start their lives over. They believe in the American dream and over and over, they make it come true for themselves for their children, and for others, they give more than they receive they labor and succeed and often they are entrepreneurs, but their greatest contribution is more than economic because they understand in a special way, how glorious it is to be an American that quote. Let's not my words. Those are the words of president Ronald Reagan. They were. They were delivered by president Ronald Reagan in nineteen eighty the same year. My parents came to the United States. Let's pass. They tore six today and let's treat every person in our country, who has struggled and it's just as American as you and I are, let's treat them with the respect that they deserve. Joining us now is freshman. Car's been Joan goose from Colorado. He is a member of the House Judiciary committee. And Carson, I wanted to talk to you about this great example that you've delivered this week that the judiciary committee can legislate, an investigate episode time judiciary committee, passing that dreamers of Bill out of committee. Then passing it on the house floor. Let me begin though with the breaking news from politico tonight, indicating a certainly a strong difference of opinion between speaker Pelosi and your chairman of the judiciary committee, Jerry. Now, they're on impeachment. Politico's reporting Nadler, pressed Pelosi to allow his committee to launch an impeachment inquiry against Trump. The second such request. He's made in recent weeks. Only to be rebuffed by the California, Democrat and other senior leaders is that your understanding of German Nadler's position. Well, it's good to be with you Lawrence, and thanks for having me on the program, I would say with respect to your first point. I think you're exactly right. And that is to say that we've been saying for quite some time that we could, you know, walk and chew gum at the same time and that legislating and engaging oversight was not mutually exclusive, and I think we've proven that time and time again. And certainly that was the case yesterday when we passed the dream in promise act with respect to your question regarding that report, I have not seen that report. So I don't know that I'm in a position to comment on it. Look, you've reported this as have many others. There's obviously some differences of opinion within the democratic caucus, as one would expect we are a diverse party, a big tent caucus, we represent different areas of the country, geographically, diverse and ideologically diverse as well. And so there are going to be differences of opinion both on policy and on oversight. And obviously, as you know, there are some who believe that proceeding under the normal sort of oversight process is the most prudent step. There are other. And that includes me who believed that opening an inquiry and impeachment inquiry is the most prudent step. And as you know, and you've interviewed several of my colleagues previously, those of us who served on the judiciary committee, a number of us fall into that, latter camp in part, because we have witnessed the wholesale obstruction of congress in a very visceral way. I mean, the subpoenas that are being ignored by this administration time and time, again, our subpoenas issued by our committee. So we, of course, we're going to have a more as I said, perhaps, visceral understanding of kind of that obstruction happening up close. But look, I think our chairman is doing a terrific job. And he has scheduled a set of hearings that believe you've already mentioned in your program starting next week that will really focus on the substance of the special counsel report. And I think, again, try to educate the American public about the findings in the report, which in many ways have been kind of off, you skated by the administration's obstruction of our ability to engage in basic oversight say in my experience, working with. Chairman and committees in the Senate. The, to me the indicator, the public indicator, the chairman now there is leaning toward that minimum, if not clearly favors moving to impeachment is that he's allowed half of the democratic members of his committee, including you to be out there, publicly favoring impeachment and chairman at least used to try to control what their members said publicly. I've only been in congress for a few months. So you, of course, have a far better understanding of, they'd given your experience in the Senate of for many years. But it my sense of it is governed by consensus in the caucus each of us are elected to represent our constituents to the best of our ability in autumn. It later on or the, the oath that we take the constitution so members are going to make the decisions that ultimately on, on their own timetables. And I think we ought to respect that carbon Joan goes gets tonight's last word. Thank you very much for joining us Carson. Thank you Lawrence new for meet the press. Chuck Todd cast, it's an insider's take on politics. The twenty twenty election and more candid conversations with some of my favorite reporters about things we usually discuss off camera. Listen for free wherever you get your podcast.

President Trump president House Judiciary committee Senate Democrats congress President Nixon Senator Elizabeth Warren Jolson Elizabeth Lawrence judiciary committee Trump Senator Biden chairman United States Hillary Clinton Jerry Nadler Indiana Nancy Pelosi Bill
Cooley: Tough Grader

The Kevin Sheehan Show

1:22:46 hr | Last month

Cooley: Tough Grader

"Hey guys quick word about the athletic enormous subscriber. I mentioned it all the time i've had been standing. Who does a great job covering the football team for the athletic target. El-bashir phenomenal job covering the hockey team. David aldridge rianne and walker. Fred katz all of them Do such a great job. And i become a subscriber to the athletic and i would urge you to consider it as well especially. There's a great offer you can cover all your bases if you sign up for an annual subscription to the athletic this holiday season you get a free year to give to somebody else. You don't even need to root for the same teams. Give the gift of great sports coverage get the gift of great sports coverage subscribe. Now in save now's the time to take advantage of getting your subscription to the athletic while you'll be able to give one free to somebody else and if you go to the athletic dot com slash. Espn that's s. h. e. h. a. n. you'll receive to all access. Subscriptions for just the price of one get unrivalled sports coverage for an unbeatable price. Go to the athletic dot com slash. Sheehan receive to all access subscriptions for just the price of one. We hope to see you there. You don't want it. You don't need it but you're gonna get it anyway. That kevin she and show he is kevin cooling. Don't break down today. It's going to be the offense from the win over pittsburgh before we get to. I've got just two or three things from from the tuesday night game The baltimore dallas game. You told me before you didn't really watch it if you go back. And just watch lamar jackson on his pocket throws there some of the worst throws you will ever see just horrible With that said though it's very interesting to me and it's just an observation when he's out of the pocket throwing on the move not from the pocket but extending play outside the pocket going left. Or right i think he's tremendously accurate. Like he his touchdown pass. Is you know he's out of the pocket he's extended. He's moving left any makes a beautiful throw. And i've noticed that about him over the years and maybe ravens fans would say nah. That's not really what happens when i've watched him. I don't i it's like when he's moving and it doesn't really rely as much as you know on pocket mechanics. I actually think he's really accurate. and i was wondering if you noticed the same thing and if you did why you would think that would be definitely noticed this thing but at the same time i've noticed that he can make accurate throws while he's standing in the pocket it seems like it's their their weeks when he's much better in the pocket then it seems like they're weeks where he's really not good at all in the pocket. I don't know why that would be timing of some of the things is is of certain things. He knows how to anticipate as he gets out on the edge. Just very good at that. I don't know exactly what it is. You know drop the the three five step drop mechanics. Getting them off rhythm. I can tell you this on normal drop back and to a wide open tight end coming on a on a crosser. He sailed the pass six feet over the head of the receiver And i just thought it was interesting. He has very much a different throwing motion a lot of the time he'll go super site armor kind of side arm or not. That much sidearm. It's like it's like. He's throwing motion changes too much what. He is almost like that with dwayne two when he wanted to throw something with a little bit of touch he had changes arm angle. Yeah he definitely changes his arm angle allot he is however as a scrambler or just as a read option runner he. There's nobody better. I mean you're you know it's funny. I'll never forget before that draft you said and i quote lamar jackson's the best running back in this draft and it's not even close and if he is willing to play running back i would make him my first round choice almost making my first overall twice first overall choice. He's that he would be that great of a running back in the nfl and ways he is that he's also a guy that makes big plays with his arm too but his his pocket Mechanics in pocket. Accuracy is is poor on. They had edwards. Ba had dobbins back the ingraham back. Last night they rushed for two hundred ninety four yards. They won the game. Look i i was thinking about jumping on dallas last night plus the nine I didn't and i'm glad i didn't However in watching that game dallas actually came out and played pretty well on offense as early missed three field goals in the game so that alone would have given them the cover It's hard you rarely. Do you see kickers. Missed three field goals in a game. He was one for four by the way. Justin tucker missed a thirty six yard. Or it's the first time in like seventy kicks inside forty that he's missed but i by the way i was looking at his numbers. He's a hall of fame kicker. He's having a hall of fame career But the The cowboys had three misfield goals in god. Did they get absolutely screwed on almost every call that seemed to be you know. Close was an absolute grievous. Pass interference On cd lamb. Who did a stop and go at the end of the half he gets grabbed and the ref is right there. They didn't call it. They spotted the ball multiple times. Formerly seem like the cowboys got the wrong end of the stick the entire game. they're done. They actually came out and played. I think with some heart last night but they're done three and nine that's it for them. it's a two horse race not that we didn't say that before it's it's giants it's washington and And it's gonna be fun here over the last month Just as an aside. I i took some of what you said on the podcast. Yesterday and those. That haven't listened to it. I would urge you to go back and listen to the whole thing. Coolies thoughts on the game in our conversation which was a ten fifteen minute conversation about whether or not washington is limited. And you were very adamant that you shouldn't put limitations on them. And i i agree with you. I do and we. I took that to the radio. Show this morning and took calls and you know the there were mixed reactions but one of the things. I said that. I didn't say to you. Yesterday is that you know. And i'm not being defensive here not really. Maybe a little bit defensive To you know people who would say. Oh my god dude. They just. They won one game. They're five and seven. Just relax but the truth of the matter is at this time of year in years past we would be discussing the rest of the league because our team season competitive portion of it. Anyway more times than not has been over when we've got ended to To the month of december. And i love the nfl and you love the nfl. We love watching football. Most of you. That are listening. Love it and if i took washington and said They're houston are the this team that you're watching his playing in houston we would be having an objective conversation about teams that are playing well and the conversation about washington would go like this. You know if they were houston. Yeah you know what houston's five and seven. They've won three in a row. Cooley their defense. He's really good. I mean chase. Young's a monster munt has sweat. He's having a pro bowl season allen and pain they're really good defensively in how about our smith like he's what a story like. I don't think i'd wanna play them. If they get into the postseason they're capable of winning a couple of games that would be a in other. Nfl cities that are just talking nfl and not about their own team right now. And they're looking at you. Know kind of a sleeper. I would bet you. People are looking at both the giants and washington and washington in particular because of the defense and saying that team's pretty good. You know that team if they if they win that division you know. They might win a gamer to that to me that i think that that's a reasonable conversation that you would have if you were totally objective. It's hard to be for me. And for you and for many of you out there but i would be having that conversation about a team from outside the city if if i was watching them and watching the way they're playing. I don't see how you don't have that in. Yeah i i you know for me. I have to try to be objective at this point in the past. You've said cooley. Homer whatever you wanna say i'm not. I'm cathy lose right now. I think anybody really knows me knows that. It's the opposite of agenda. When i say they're not limited. Yeah it's for me it's a five Part of it in. We're in any of the pass these that i'd been in the past. Maybe that's that's a homer opinion. But i'm the opposite of that right now. I've i've been critical if anything of this team and have no reason not to be greeley critical of this team. And i'm just telling you watching ball. I don't think they're limited. I think that there's something to this team. I'm not suggesting they couldn't they. Here's the other part of it. They can lose any game of of course they could but i think they can winning right now at least in the nfc if you take like right now assessing the nfc and of course it changes. It's the nfl. New orleans is really good. An offense defense. Whether it's with tatum. Hiller drew brees their defense has been the surprise for them this year. Green bay's aaron rodgers Those are two teams. That are i think are going to be difficult as we speak right now to beat in the nfc playoffs But everybody else like you know. I've watched minnesota. i've watched tampa minnesota's defense is really inconsistent and at times bad Tampa obviously there's something going on there with with arians and brady that is in good seattle. You can move the football against arizona. I don't even know if they're gonna make it The rams goff can turn it over three times in a game. washington defensively. You know is is gonna be is going to be there. And then i think coolly and i forget if i pointed this out yesterday but this was a big part of why i think it's really hard to put limitations on them right now. This is totally unique this year. You're not what are we. Typically in a conversation say yet. They are playing well. And i think they can make the playoffs and i think they could win a game but the problem is they can't win at lambeau. They can't win in the super dome. Will this year's totally different. These are neutral site environments. There's no we gotta deal with the sound and the noise of the superdome. Were we gotta deal with with the lambeau situated. You don't have that so road teams winning this year. It's just gonna be easier whether or not they get through it and they and they pull it off is is another story. Be sometimes the better team just wins but you're not gonna have the added disadvantage of having to overcome crowd noise now washington if they win the division is going gonna play a home game two and they won't have an advantage at home against you know minnesota or tampa or seattle or the rams or whomever it would be a four or five matchup But anyway i think. Do you know that dinner. That washington is the only team with a losing record. That has a positive point differential in the entire. Nfl they are five and seven their plus four in point differential which i think is. I don't know why i think that's an interesting thing. Everybody in the division including the giants Obviously have a negative. They've got a positive point. Differential plus for part of that comes from you know to blow blowout wins over the cowboys right. The aggregate score being what was it. Forty one and twenty five sixty six to where they have in the first one three sixteen nineteen sixty six nineteen So that that disparity in those two games obviously helps along those two games by those forms. Yeah so anyway. Alyssa's played other teams closer than that. Yes they have they have i. We'll get to coolies film breakdown right after this word from one of our sponsors. We're going in depth play by. Play the gleeful breakdown. Cooley and kevin Time for police film breakdown from the pittsburgh game on monday night. He teased us yesterday about. He couldn't wait to evaluate alex smith's performance. So let's start there unless you've got an over arching theme kevin alley having overarching thing. It's you do. I mean i just i always have something. I can't just start. There has to be stuff all right so here. I want to go through a couple of a couple of thoughts on this game k. One there's some things that i like. What they're doing offensively. So i think they should start the next couple of weeks with this especially with gibson not being available with the turf toe situation. Because i can't imagine that he's gonna play. I would be surprised if he played the next week. Although they're going to need him. You still got kiss. So we'll see right. Yeah what they're doing with some of the empty set because you keep talking you were talking about some of the empty set stuff which which i absolutely love is they are starting in empty set and then alex has the opportunity. Maybe not every time but definitely some times to look at the safety rotation and say if there's to safety back to the to the empty set and they're gonna play a saucer dome coverage then we're going to bring mckissic back in the backfield and we have an opportunity to run the ball because they go empty. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're media gonna throw the pot. They're letting now i've seen him brought back into the backfield. Yes as a tell if you bring them back from that empty set into the backfield that they're going to run it. I mean it doesn't have to be tell because you can bring them up. You can have a check with me on that where you're still going to go either. Empty set quick game or empty set. Easy pass bring back back and then still go with a run action right. Bring back in the backfield and go screen. You can bring it back for anything you want it was still to place called in the huddle right and then you can also bring them back and go. Rpo out of that as well. So i don't think it's at tel per se would be at the only thing you did when you brought them back in the back of was to run the ball but you bringing it back to run the ball because you have a advantageous. Look to run the football. I i like that. But i think when they start getting mckissic out of the backfield y- alex starts to find rhythm that was more in the second half from late in that ballgame when they really started to get into a ton of the empty set. Looks i thought. That's when alex really started to feel comfortable and feel some rhythm for me if i'm wrong place. I want my quarterback to being rhythm immediately in that game early in that game. And so i think getting some of those empty sets quick. Maybe hurrying up to some of those empty set looks continuing one place called where mckissic split out. It could give you a good start to the game then off of that. The thing that. I really think they're going to start to get is some better. Hi lo throws with mckissic running some snag route and inside route type of stuff because you have to come up and play him the when you start watching this stuff. Forty one flashes on film as its second seven catches it for three. But he's still getting a first down its third and five and he's getting sixteen instead of six yards and so if you don't dictate your coverage is gonna come up then. You're in trouble and what i haven't seen a ton of some in breaking stuff behind a mckissic at about twelve to yards. So i really think you have an opportunity to put mckissic and probably terry on the same side of the field and let mckissic run that underneath stuff and maclaurin that deeper stuff and if you're in zone coverage you gotta pick one. I think that would be an opportunity to get alex into some easy rhythm where he doesn't have to do more than take one extra hits to throw over the top mckissic if they come up and play so. I think there's a ton of things that they can do with that. Empty stuff and alex is really really comfortable with it. And ultimately you use mckissic is is a one read every time with some deeper combinations following it and the other thing you you can bring crossers from the other side of the field. Put mckissic in whipping over the ball and if they come up and throw crop from the other side of the field over the top of it. There's a lot that they can build on with this. I think. I think they should start early with some of the stuff I wanted to go through the trick. Play in the fourth and one trick play. i don't. i'm not convinced that inman was supposed to be on that play. What do you mean. i don't know if it was cam sims. That came off the field or something happened where somebody else was supposed to be on in that spot. But is they get up. To the line of scrimmage you can see that right is over there a little bit in a tight set and then logan thomas and rights pointing at the spot. Where inmates should be like. Hey someone should be right here. And then alex has gotta look over and get into like. Hey bro you gotta be on. The other side of the field again. Has no idea where he even is. He lineup on the subject field. That's not a shift you can tell. It's not a shift because the receiver on the right side right is pointing like we're missing a dude and then alex gets him over and then as he gets over he has no clue he. He initially aligns to wide. He has no clue who is going to block. He's looking at what he thinks. He's cracking what he has. Not run play before okay. That's my that's my bet is. He is not run. That play is that no. It's okay. I don't know i would bet on it though that. He had not practiced that point if he had practice that play. He was in la la land when they did it he was the most. I mean to watch him one of the things. That's interesting about watching him in this play. He is really. He's he's not paying attention so he he lines up in the wrong spot you think and he comes over and if you watch him because i'm watching it right now he really just he. He's looking down the line he you're right. He doesn't know what his responsibilities but when he sees Was it hilton break into the backfield. He realizes he fucked up. I think he realizes that there's someone there i think. He has no clue what he's doing. Okay yeah i mean it was bad. I mean if alex if they had the wrong personnel in the game than alex. Should i call a timeout. Well and that's what. I'm as soon as as soon as inman has no idea what he's doing. He's the first point of attack blogger on that side as soon as you realize. Coaching staff the call the time as soon as you realize that critical situation that fuck in doesn't know what's going on. You got a timeout y- they. They had to take a timeout right there. So that's my bet on what happened on that play. Because i i wrote why are right in mint at the point of attack. The two most critical blocks on the most critical place came on that side of the field. It would have been sims in terry for me. It's worth in one puts interior over there. No one knows what you're doing on that way. I mean maybe they thought that. If they put terry on the other side of the field they get safety rotation away down for terry side but they're overloaded with a bunch there. That's the strong side for the defense. Pittsburgh does a heck of a job playing is and kean. The play It's it's really well. I don't know even if it's blocked all the way yet if against gets to the edge anyway because hayden's outside on block but but he's he's gotta get a half a there's no way hayden's gonna stop them and by the way mckissic in the open field has excellent moves and wiggle envision. He gets that easily if going to be pure open-field because i'm not sure if right gets enough block you you and you can never there's no way to determine that because once the play goes inside of right then. You can't see exactly what's going to happen with that block. You don't know exactly how that's going to play out anyways. i. I'll bet you well. I'm sure this support from one point. This is not just a walk-through play. They had an extra couple of days. This is something. They practiced a couple of times. It's a true botch onion. Men's part it's a missing assignment. I think twice one lined up wrong to have no idea who's blocking i to me. That tells me the guy didn't run the play in the week of practice so you could call as soon as they realize. Inman didn't know coaching staff to call timeout. Because it's not necessarily on alex's part to know who ran the plate and practice that week it's not like i'm sure he's thinking just get over there and get your guy and then finally one thing they're going to really have to work on in the run game is pittsburgh brought a lot of lot of pressures with stunt upfront and it really messed up their run stuff there. There's zone operation the the if someone stunting back inside you don't wanna fall back inside of the blocker in some down stuff. They blitzed from backers. They blitzed with nickel pressure. They really made it tough on first and second down to have some of those zone runs. They got off key with protection that got off key with some of the gaps and stuff they got out of that in the second half which was a good adjustment like they clearly. You could see that pittsburgh had a good plan for some of the first and second down run plays a run action place in terms of pressures that they weren't going to be able to pick up and in terms of getting guys into the run lanes. Where are the the line was discombobulated. It wasn't like johnston said in the broadcast as color. We've we can't get there. Were five we're going to. We're gonna keep adding no. They had a plan. They were going with six seven men pressures throughout the game multiple times even late in the game with some all output pressures. So that's something that you're going to have to clean up in terms of the zone. Run stuff is man you a. You gotta pass it off to the next guy inside. You've gotta gotta keep going keep climbing angle if he dies inside he's out of play. Trusted alex. Smith goes through alex smith. Good and the bad ten altogether in the game has a escaped the gaps scramble throw where he hits sims junior open. It's an awesome scramble. he's climbing the gaps. Just didn't need to do any of that. He had seems open as soon as possible he was jumpy early. You could see that. He immediately early in the game was a little bit jumpy and my thought is back to my initial thought. Let's go get them. Three easy throws them mckissic. He feels rhythm the defense gets out there. Timing you gotta lot to worry about. What the empty stuff. And then let's mix in some of the other things we wanna make in the first act of the game. I talked about some of the. It was a run action. It was a really cool package by. Pittsburgh on the offensive line's left side. That three defensive lineman they brought both linebackers and then they brought nickel up. There was no. It was almost impossible for them to pick everybody up that that barbara went out. He picked up nickel splaine. It's forty one. Splaine comes completely free. That's going to be really tough on lucas. To pass it. All the way back off was a it was a i. Don't know a defensive a good sack good blitz pressure that they'd drawn up. Alex had a delay of game early in this game to Man he End of the second quarter that throw he makes the logan. Thomas is awesome. He really hung in the pocket. That's that was one of the first throws he really hot on the pocket to It was awesome. They tell got action downfield. These he can tell you got something going downfield and he stayed in their hung in there. And i think that moment really started. He started play better after that he did miss it. Throw down the seem steven sims junior. That was the one that yeah that got broken up. It was the one that got broken up into also the play where he took to clear to the to the to the leg right basically the leg and technically to the lake. That's close to big play the sims open room down the middle of the field. He'd get a little more air on bomb again. You hit thought. He a great. While on a deep shot to terry mclaren That should have been caught. I heard by the safety. It he really just didn't get his android on that ball. So i thought to mean that was that was a good boss a couple opportunities for alex in the first half of that game but they didn't get a lot going on and it's very is really good on defense. And they they basically said like your. It's going to be hard to beat us down the field and did a very good job mixing up some coverage and back into that thing the second half of the game where alex i really started to shine ultimately The positive in the second half the throat. A logan thomas on the corner out in the third quarter of the twenty nine yard or down to the one yard line that i can ball man. That's that's a good throw pittsburgh really trying to hang the plane cover to look but that corners really trying to fall off into anything deepen. Alex held him just long up with an underneath looked. Mckissic which is where mckissic becomes incredibly. Impactful is he's such a problem that still has to hold even even for a team like pittsburgh who wants to fall off the perfect. that's huge. It was a perfect ball. Is that the read there. Because you do have you. You've got you've got safety. Help the whole thing It looked like. I thought. I don't have the play in front of me. I remember looking at it yesterday. It looked to me like maclaurin was open on that play. You have a shot. But he's reading the entire way and high lowing that cover to corner the flat player and he sees that he's got a window over the top of that guy that safety to cover to state safety really shouldn't be able to get into that corner. Throw i mean you can get close in and we can t contest it but you should be able to body the tight end and let him make a plan for the safety. You what you're worried about is the flat corner in that in that situation Awesome on the fade ball to Tim sims. I was going to just ask you if you're i was waiting to see if you're gonna skip over that throw as a great throw. It wasn't it it was a great throw. Yeah i'm talking about well. Did he drop off in the engineer in the end zone. Yeah that's good ball great ball. Good ball we'll talk about that with him Really good throw in a better throws of day. He's drifting left in. the pocket. Goes across his body to the right hits mckittrick. I thought that was the most difficult throw because mckissic going away from him and he's moving left and he's got to turn his body and throw. That was that was incredible. Like that's such a good throw. It's great it's it's exceptional. We're waiting pressure. They're down seventeen ten. It's a second nate. Play in the third quarter but yeah. That's a huge thorough. By smith the touchdown to logan. Thomas is a good throw. Logan's wide open. It's really. it's a good design and logan to the great job logan's running like a wheel like a flat up. Logan sells it long enough that the cover three corner on that side takes the bait. He takes the post to the middle of the field. Exp- wrinkle gets a ton of credit that look sprinkle going in there and getting picking. That's a zone underneath coverage. Someone's gonna try to come out and carry that wheel route but that's tough for an inside backer to carry that as it is the guy that's for pittsburgh that's going to need to make that place is the corner. I don't know it depends on how to call it if they called it. Pure locked by the corner. Then it's inside the should play over the top sprinkled. But that's good throw and he takes a big hit on that. By because morgan moses is doing god knows what on that side jumping wide outside like attacking heart up like homes like a run. Play on a drawback that it's weird. Actually really weird. Morgan does on that play. Really good shot on the inside fade route to sam's the one-handed catch. I mean that's huge empty. Set right empty. Set one on one. Look down the scene kind of in between the numbers and inside line inside fades really popular through. What do you want to mean that. You know wondering what. I'm gonna call that when i when i call them my offense to call their The couple of negatives in the second half late to terry on the first play of the second half just little over out just just a second late too. it was a bad snap attended. Double clutched it. Maybe not necessarily as far but he's late to it to low ball to sims on the leg catch but not completely accurate all you ended up getting it so that was good. I under through sims on a go ball. When cam sims didn't see. I think it was a little bit underthrown but simpson at all is still. It's a good idea bad zero blitz on that throw where they brought everybody. It's a good idea to let it go. I like it. It's a no risk throwing my opinion Second seven throat. A mckissic ends up being conversion. I have no problem with it. You're taking a positive play. It's ten seventeen in the fourth quarter if you want to this. I think he's going to have is isaiah right on the wheel but the ball. Val i still think he's gonna get right on the wheel route for deeper. Throw down the field. But that said you know you're gonna get the first down with an open mckissic. You take him taken a positive play from that and then tied seventeen seventeen. There's a third and ten zero right before they ended up kicking the field goal. They get since dropped. Oh yeah the sims junior had the drop cam sims dropped it on the woman it would've. It would've kept the clock about yeah right. yeah. I don't have a problem with the accuracy on that. Throw but if you look at that again it's it's really all out one free safety. I think he he's gotta throw trust ball maclaurin. Hope really muth on one on one with running deep corner out. Sims is not going to get the first down. It's seventeen seventeen. You can't take a sack and you can't throw an interception. You're already in field goal. Rena picture maclaurin to the sideline. he's not gonna throw. He leave that. Went up to the sideline no chance. It's not going to be a pick. He's not going to take. It's going to have to throw the early before. Terry comes out of actually cooley. In this situation. I was actually surprised. They chose to throw the football. I thought that they should have run. The football made pittsburgh call their last time out or get it to the two minute warning. They already at a forty five yard field goal year. You weren't gonna make it worse with a run. You may have made it a little bit better now. I say that. And at the same time if i weren't worried about pressure in this game in sacks like what happened at the end of the first half then i would have been going for the first down to try to you know win the game there because if you make the first down you're basically now in position to run the clock down to very little time left and kick a game winning field goal but in that spot we already saw two sacks at the end of the first half and i remember thinking in the moment you know what. Run a draw here. Run the ball. Let's get four yards. Make them use their last time out or get it to the two minute warning. So that when they touch the ball on the other side of the two minute warning and kicked the field goal because his third and ten. You can debate whatever call. You won that debate but on the call was made. I think if. I had to do it again. If i was alex i would say. Let it fly. Flatten out the corner to the sideline where you're not throwing high at a high angle down the field. If you throw it with some air under it terry can break and run flatter to the sideline and has a chance to make that play. It gives you an opportunity to get the first down again. I'm not. I'm not sitting here saying it's a terrible throw. I think based on leverage with cam sims there. There's really no chance on that. Five yard our out that he's going to end up getting the first down there right. I think alex would've known new when he did it. He he didn't want to take the sack does a good job getting the ball out and not taking this. Yeah my point. Is i think he can throw a ball with a little like the guy that i always see do this. Is tom like three steps. Is tom brady at three steps. Before they're coming out of the break the balls in the air gonna let one go with a lotta loft and he's gonna let his receiver adjusted abbasi. Come into the break. In the air right kerry had a stab terry was gonna terry did win on the corner out. It just would have been thrown early. I think it was cam. Sims is only bad. Play the game. You dropped the ball. That's a good throw. Yeah no he definitely dropped the ball. It's just gonna be four four seven yard play. yeah Yeah i mean if you look at it ten times and it's way early when he's going to have to let that go to terry but there's nobody. There's no safety health. There's nobody there is a pure one on one situation with very sophie. Flattens to the sideline carries got a chance to go make a play on the ball and only that putting that to the side. The missed opportunity. Perhaps on the play did run. Do you agree with me. That maybe they should have just run the football there. What would your caliban. I think you you know that they're coming with some kind of pressure. Because that's pittsburgh started doing late in the game. Especially in those third down situations is bringing added pressure. I don't have a problem with the call. If cam sims wins one on one on that out route just enough to turn it up. He's going to get the first down the five to six hundred outbound right if alex vise just enough time. He's got a one on one shot on a corner. Harry where he can flatten throw. I hate that. I just think. I don't want him dropping back in that situation against that team downfield position one sad and fifty four yards her. You're in you're telling me you're telling me right now. You don't trust our quarterback a it's not that i don't trust the quarterback. I trust the quarterback but the quarterback at the end of the first half took back sacks that nearly cost us three points and this is for the gallon. I mean they were both of them. Were bad place. I mean we didn't. I didn't necessarily talk the first act. The took ridiculous it to open receivers. He's trying to six rector from the eighteen yard line. He's definitely keen terry downfield and he's got right in front of his base right right in front of his face. He's got sims on an easy our out by the way you. You didn't comment on the play. Before which i mentioned to yesterday so remember the third four one handed catch gets him into field goal range with two twenty left in a seventeen seventeen game on first and ten. They run peyton barber for two yards. Pittsburgh calls their first time out pittsburgh now trying to conserve time. 'cause they're they're assuming now they're going to be down at least three. The second nate bubble. My god was that thrown into significant traffic. I mean that's not an alex. Play i so. That's a stream that's not an rpo. I know that i know it. It's a it's it's it's baby soon. They're bringing nickel pressure off of that side. And logan thomas comes across in motion and in an ideal world first of all. That's his guy. The nikko guy in an ideal world he'll sense that nickel pressure has no chance of turning around and getting back out to that play in a bypass him. You know continued to climb to the next dude. Ideally you'd want logan to just climbed past that but that's his numbers counter that screen. I'm sure that's what we've got but if you watch that play in that that nickel player on that side going it should be actually a good cause. He's going to bypass he's going to come back into the backfield overrun that play. You said it's not an alex play. And i agreed with you at the beginning but i'm watching it again. The throws not great the three not a great girl the throw is high and simms has to come down with it. And you know if it's incomplete or sims gets a hand on it and it goes up in the air. I just personally. I love those plays in in the midst of a ballgame on third and fifteen or third and ten or even in normal down and distance situations. You are then in sort of we are going to take the lead here as long as our kicker mess which you know is a big. If this year. I'm going to be you know i'm gonna make sure that we don't put on our team in in the position of of a bad play and i are always think that the tunnel or bubble or whatever kind of screen. You wanna call it. I always think it's such a timing play you know. It's so based on timing that there's always some risk in that play. There's high reward in that play but i always think that there's risk in that play to. I wouldn't call that. I used to necessarily love the call because three second longs that had preceded that play ended up being first down conversions to mckissic. Right here. empty self was was really really good. It seems like an interesting mix in. But you don't know you're going to get it zone-blitz off of that died with nickel pressure and then scraping over the top to cover that up there already flowing just to cover the nickel pressure. You don't know what call you're going to get against it. The game was a good call. By pittsburgh. there could have been an adjustment. I think by thomas to give you some more room. It could have been a better throw by alex. But when you say risk play i mean. How many times do you see that. Play blown allied result. You see that play blown up blown up find. I mean well blown-up can can we do a turnover and by the way it won't play resulting. You almost never see that. Play resulting the turnover. You you see that play you see that play in it years ago Spurrier really at florida was 'cause i remember my friends and and i would refer to it as the college play like back. In the ninety s we refer we refer to the tunnel screen or the bubble screen. Is the college play because they never ran. This in. The nfl was a college play. And i could be wrong. It may have been somebody before. Spurrier spurrier was the first at a high profile program. I i remember. They used to run it all the time in. It was unique the first time we saw. 'cause throws the traditional screen was the traditional screen. It was a running back or full. Back out of the backfield with offensive lineman leading the defensive lineman come and then getting out in front of the of the pass catcher to block downfield and that became a new wave a screen and it was you know it was a lotta hit or miss. You know it was big play or you know eventually became potential blow play. We run a lot of this scott. Turner runs a lot of bubble tunnel. Whatever you wanna call it screen wide receiver screen stuff. I just think that the down distance time clocks core. I wouldn't run that there because it's a play that can get blown up and this one did in lost two yards and the throw wasn't good in the other part of that too Cooley is that if the throws high in it's incomplete which ended up being incomplete on the next play. Anyway you don't force time out you know you don't force us user timeouts. I don't know. I think against that defense. I wanna go for the touchdown. I wanna go for another first down. I also want to make sure that. I don't come out of that with anything. Other than a very makeable field goal attempt for the lead with about two minutes to go against the undefeated team in the league. I hear exactly what you're saying. And i think it's a call. That's a change of pace. Just call a change of pace when you didn't necessarily need that because some of the second down stuff they had was fine so i don't i'm not gonna say that i love the call but i'm also going to say that they called it into a look. It wasn't a good look and they don't know they're going to get that look. I don't see that as a high risk play. I mean it's not often. The high risk would be turnover type. Play or i mean. I don't see that play resulting in a turnover very often. That's i feeling on it again. I don't love to call him. Continue i mean look the two sacks at the end of the hafer bad i both of them i think he had opportunities But he really. I thought played well in the second half of this game. I mean i just. I thought he was consistent with where he wanted to go with the ball. I thought pittsburgh tick away. A lot of the things downfield. I do think the shots that he had to get. The ball. downfield took some of those shots. I don't think that alex missed opportunities down the field the week before against dallas. I got three or four in the first half where i thought they were missed opportunities down the field for bigger place. I don't necessarily see that in this game. I thought alex pretty good job with it fairly mostly accurate with mostly with the underneath. Rose what do you end up like thirty one or forty six something like that. Get at least two bad balls. He had at least a couple of drops in the game. You know realistically. I thought he was accurate. I thought he was consistent. I thought he played well Take away a couple of a sack. I i think it was pretty game. I alex is a b plus but you agree with me. He was a little bit jumpy. A little bit skittish early In that led to some inaccuracy early. But but to your point got into rhythm end of the first half and then it just carried over and he had some drops to. I mean he had four legitimate dropped balls and two of them could have been really big. A one of them could have been a huge play. The maclaurin play. Yeah i think the mclaughlin play was was a huge opportunity. Play that can come down with. It was a good look one of the first look. They had where he could really push the ball down. The field mccoy got over the top of the safety. I thought it was a well thrown off. Yeah they also had a couple of throwaways in the game that that he just had to throw away a couple of down in the red zone throwaways on so he also once again extended someplace with his legs in the pocket and outside of it. There's a play early in the game. I can't remember exactly when it was. And i think it was the third down that he threw short on but he sacked. Somehow he maneuvered his way through the pocket now to the right and threw the ball. I don't know who threw it on that. One maybe mckissic sims juniors. That was during the first place. I was talking about the you know. It's great that he extended that. I just thought he had sims wide open of baker. Okay okay where are we going to be plus relics. Yeah be blessed for alex. Let's go to logan thomas so look it makes a couple of huge plays in this game which is big time. You know catching the corner out early to the right side of the field contested getting his body in front of safety. That's a big time play man especially when they hadn't had a lot of plays going their way down the field that was massive. You know the touchdown catch was a big time. Play the great that touchdown that he has he does a great job selling flat long enough that he pushes the corner. There in the corner takes the deep ball and he's wide open. I mean there's but it's great that he's wide open. But i think because of his patience on the route it gets him wide open. The fumble recovery was a massive. Play in that game massive. Play funny on that fumble. They choose to run outside zone appetite. End tj wa is lined up in a three four defense two yards outside of thomas and i thought initially he didn't okay java blocking but that's the one of those ones where you're like. I always wanted to stream and offensive coordinator. Put me on the ball with my hand in the ground and you asked me to block the best outside linebacker in the league who has two yard leverage. Come on man like let me motion to him or let me get up. Get out to them somehow. You can't put me in disadvantaged situation. It wasn't a terrible job that said he let wasp fall off inside and stripped up album. Right it's not his fault. That mckissic fumbled but the huge huge recovery. That's one of the two biggest plays the game in my view and then another huge catch on the corner out that we talked about that. I thought was great. Ball down the left side that it gets down to the one yard that was absolutely massive The third down in fourteen. He converts how they don't get that. I don't know that little hop step back. Cut inside. I for the first down the the great effort play you. Everybody should have great effort inman. And everybody's going to try to get that first down it was it was. It was great effort and it was. I just don't know how they got that wrong. I don't know how they got it wrong. Either it makes literally no sense to me but they did. They did he's getting better as a as a receiver he really is. And i think is run after the catch is pretty good too. It's not amazing. He's not quick twitch which is weird because they just watch him. I think he's quick twitch but he's just he's not You're you're right about that like he doesn't when you think about like an athlete accord a performer quarterback. That's playing tight. Ender a former basketball player. Who plays tight end. And i don't know if. Logan thomas was a basketball player. Not betty was But he doesn't have like this like real ability to make people. Miss like a quarterback would especially you know he was a zone. Read you know of quarterback under a under the virginia tech off wednesday's when he was there And and yet and yet. He doesn't really make people miss in way that you would expect like a quarterback kind of an athlete to do it. You know giving hips. Yep he doesn't have fluid hits he's got no wiggle You got a lot of credit and the broadcast for being a physical blocker and there are things that he does with real physicality like early in the game with check down catch on a third down. I think he. He's chipping fifty six on the edge. The guy that came in for bud dupree knock the shit out of him and knocked him. Down the line of scrimmage. Yeah that's awesome. Some of some of the blocks were. He's coming across or he's got a little space to close on a d. end he is physical. He's not afraid contact. There's no doubt about that. But in terms of like physicality inline blocking he's just averages in line blocker. When i say that his average is an inland blocker is better than almost any tight in. That's played there since i've been there better than most. It's not good but it's not bad that make sense know you. You've been very nikola colon bedroom. Titans you've been very difficult in the titans here as blockers anybody. That's watching them would be they would. He doesn't have that in line pop and part of that is. He stiffened his hips because he unloads that quick. Pop is not quite there. He's good at accelerating through contact when he's got time to accelerate through contact Fifty fifty on the outside on secondary stuff one of the bubbles. That was out there. He was excellent flip. Spend us great. There was another one that was a two yard loss earlier in the game where they threw. Rpo bubble and he gets the do the outside. And i think that's one of the ones who are johnson's like man. That's a great play. Because logan thomas is such a great blocker walker. He really depend on. You know shitty landmark shitty angle by logan and he got out leveraged quick when he should've wallowed him up so i mean i guess i really loved the idea though that logan is becoming a better tight end. I watch them on film a lot over the last couple years. I've valuated a lot of the titans. And i think the more he plays in the more they're showing beliefs and better. He's getting. I don't think he's ever going to be a true separator but he is getting better at using his body and you know the tai l. Push off stuff. I'm getting a more impressed every week with thomas. He a beep lesson this game boy. You know i mean. I know be pluses a good grade. And you're you're typically a harsh greater on tight ends and don't don't even start to debate me on that. But i don't think anybody that watched that game would have thought that. Logan thomas is great with anything lower than an a and most would have had it as an a plus. You've got it as a b plus your critical greater when it comes to tight ends but you you just explained why and you also had another false start in the game which was a weird call and remember like he kind of went in motion. Yeah there were two guys in motion at the same time and that's not a false start. That's that's illegal shift isn't it. Well it's it's not an illegal shift because if they reset before the ball snapped then you can have as many guys in motion as you want it right well then then. It shouldn't honestly though i've watched it like seven times. I think he tried to cover up a false start by going emotion. I think he tried to cover up in a legal shift maybe by doing. I don't know. Yeah you're i think he kinda jumped then went and motion to cover it up. I think it was really smart. Split-second thinking like kind of moved into motion. And said i can't. I mean you'd have to have slogan what happened on that play. But the way is fast as he covered up. I don't think they should have called. It did look really jerky right at the start of the motion. Who's gonna idea. Let's go mckissic kids in the third fourth quarter. Every single thing he caught ended up being. I down second ten seconds and five seven thirty five. God he's got so much patience as a route runner to he's pushing real depth on some of these routes he's holding zone coverage long enough to break away from it. He's got some quick man. I love watching this guy run routes. He's such a weapon. But he's such a savvy situational player after the catch and he knows where to go. You know how to get the first down. You know what he needs to do to get it. he's he's really smart football player in and out of break very quick. you know. They're the the one that i thought was interesting. He got held down on the goal. Line by t. J. watt ended up being a dpi in the game another set of doing across. Yeah he stumbled coming across the field motion again. He's like is he. Got restarted stumble a little bit right there D in that situation. He had the fumble. That's costly that was was costly. Play in that game. Good as a back. Neither back is gibson. And we'll talk about barbara next but neither back is gibson. The kiss good as backup like get more gary but at the same time you're sitting there saying okay. Do we to give him that. Many carries when on second and seven. He's going to get you the first down th really interesting decision. They end to make their with. How many touches. He's going to get because how impactful it touches are in games mckissic. Plus in this game barbara. Here's what i see in barbara. Really good in between the tackles guy with good initial vision but doesn't drink cuts together. He falls forward after his first cut. They're not a kind of spaces for him to run the ball in some of the situations. He's in but he's a one cup forward back and that's probably wise. His average over his career is three and a half whatever yard is because as he gets to where he should make that second cut he just falls forward The the couple runs he had were big. Though and in between the tackles you get the i mean the first and ten fallen forward four yard game. That's a that's a good play. You know second. Six situation the touchdown run like immediate downhill. Kind of deal like it's it's look that take the ball. One hesitation step down hill. barber ended up. Fourteen carries in this game thing not a lot of yards a couple of big runs including the big run. No there's no doubt about it. Barbara was a b minus in this game kerry Two drops he did he did. He had two drops in this game and didn't really impact the game. The way terry maclaurin normally impacts the game. You know what's amazing. I think it's the first game he hasn't got plant. I mean i didn't have some more. Splint called kerry Not a huge impact in this game either way other than he did. Have those couple of jobs chance to make a big play down the field. I thought there were a couple of opportunities where he was open and wins with speed down the field where they did not get a ball. But there's a d plus what did you say deep in a d plus yup two drops no impact in the game. Okay used you started to see you have a chance to move up or down. You're not just a beep start because you're terry maclaurin right one game. Gotcha here. it's one game. Great deal sims man. That i catch got him going in the end of the first half run after the catch was big the taking down the sidelines. Big it really did. It really did get things going for them. You know the other thing in the first half before you get to what was a pretty big second half talking about third and fourteen in early in the third quarter no. I'm the one that got in on the field goal try. I'm down in the third one. Fourteen was huge low. I'm you'll get to all let you get to go on. Yeah yeah. I mean he did get beat up big time on a hitch early in the game. It's not the most telegraphed route man. That was good defense you you think about baltimore undermine little six yard six-yard buttons hook also known as hit you. I don't see him as i see him as a build up speed guy. He's not that immediate. Jump off the line of scrimmage so in with db's within five yards. He doesn't initially sell that true vertical threat. I don't know if you noticed that watching him but he's a bit me. Look like more of a build up speed kinda guy. I know what you're talking about. I in twenty three in the second. Half that glade catch got out of into a situation or then they go right and then you get to a third and fourteen on screen. Where did a phenomenal job. Setting up his blocks and getting downfield and making a really big play. That was a critical junction in that game. It was you talked about it yesterday. We talked about it yesterday. But when you watch this film you really see that. They didn't have a lot going offensively. They were really stagnant. Until about that point you know couple throws down the field but other than that. 'cause we're i mean them on defense and that i thought got him going as they finished towards the end of that drive. There's a fade thrown down in the end zone. He's drifting away from the ball and he doesn't hi point that ball he lets it come to his body. You're a six foot. Four receiver go up with high hand. Strung hands catch that at the highest point brings down paid and doesn't have a chance to break it up as you go get that thing. He's got to be able to make that play. I know it's hayden. But he's what six five sims you got them down with that thing. That's a good. That's a wealth on ball. You want to be really critical. Alex could've put it a foot higher but he let's get into his body as opposed to go up and attack with his hands and is good. He's drifting away from it just a little bit. That doesn't work in the nfl. You gotta go get especially against quarterback hayden He had the ball that he didn't see down the field the globeop that he didn't see Just always expect the ball. The other thing like i always loved his receivers just to take a peek inside. And you can see pittsburgh's coming all out or take a look at coverage at their flat across the top one on one. You should expect it every single time. Go ball he should be a twelve yards and hedge be around. He was at twenty yards before he looked for that ball. That's just not necessarily seen or something coverage maybe these wanna one but not knowing how important it is for the quarterback to get it out of his hands in that situation And then the other the only other negative that they're intend drop just got his hands mixed up on that one but god. The one handed catch on the sideline was another. Maybe the biggest play the game. Seventeen seventeen and again. Well they'd had some things going on offense. A lot of it was short field stuff. A lot of it was a couple of plays on like that. They needed that play. That changed the game right there to me. That was one of the biggest plays to begin so again like overall. You're looking at sam's and you're like he made to massive place in this game couple time plays in this game and then other than that you know. Not bad not great. He's a b. Plus i really. I've i debated this whether he's a bb minus player because he is of those two plays but god they were big place. They were two incredibly important place. He's it'd be plus right display later in the team tough grader. Tough graders forget. Will he dropped fade. He dropped a third and ten. You know he got locked down on a hitch was average as a blocker. You wanna be tough. I'll be tough to next. And i'll also keep in mind. They didn't put up forty on steelers and the steelers are very good defense. This wasn't an explosive offensive performance. Yeah i got it We can do with inman was garbage. He was immigrate was. I can't watch that shit past right. Didn't play a ton know had maybe anyway did you want a great inman isn't that i said you know what those guys like. He didn't play. That much wasn't good Right had one catch in this game for right draw for the end up to and he had to drop the one catch he was the second seventeen running like a little snag route like an over and then kettle whip out journey at two yards bro. Five yards right because it should. It should have resulted not in two thousand fourteen but realistically like a certain eleven hundred ten. You're that a little deeper. You'll have more separation. Should've been more. He did yeah. And nifty jump over the defender on that play though to get the extra two yards with a three yard reception. Yeah if he d minus for right not just go players. We miss anybody Recap all the grades. Fims be terry d plus mckissic be barbara barbara eight minus b. minus maclaurin d-plus shuffling papers is did you want a great sprinkle sprinkle the d. Would you give some junior. I didn't grade them. Senior simms was. I thought since junior was a c plus in this game. I actually did. Have that written down. You know you have the one drop. That was really really bad. You downgraded more for that but there's some things that he does a route runner like syms junior carlos stick out on the inside and you just watch like his savviness to push. Hold the defender inside. Breakout he key create separation. He's got something about him that when he's really operating which he he can he create separation. He also shot down the scene where he was over the top twenty eight but if alexey it's a little bit more on it it's a big play. I i think sims union should have more touches. I can send you just think it. There's something about him that they don't. I don't know if it's trust i don't know what it is. Hans how about lack of ball security hans maybe part of it but it's also he to me is one of those guys once you really start to buy in and he's getting more touches like towards the back after last year that he can make place. Where you you've you've got mckissic kerri sims a compliment to the biggest the next biggest playmaker. I think simpson. We thought that we thought that before but cam sims him sim senior Or the other sims We we. he's clearly the number two wide receiver threat. And by the way. I'd ask you this question. Do you think he's a legitimate. Starting number two in the nfl does he look like potentially that. Down the road if not now. He's a legitimate starting to he's i don't know if i see him as a dynamic to vote number two. If that makes sense. I hear like i don't know if i see him. Just yet as a seventy-five catcher year guy. I think he's more like a thirty five to forty. Catchy your guy. I just don't see enough like quick twitch separation on some of the stuff that he's doing the there's enough positive. I think he is a legitimate starting to in that you can count on him for what you need them for. But i don't know if he's like he's that we need it. Let's go to him guy just yet. Let's do the offensive line right after this word from one of our sponsors task. No on the athletic. I have been staring at my closet. The last nine months and i hate what i see. Same old stuff in there. Twenty twenty one is common time for a refresh. Soon you'll be hearing people say new year new me. 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Start with martin. Luther's first time of the year you had three false starts. Although not call on one right. There were three or four times. He's off the ball. Franklin that boss nets or right before that it's it's faulty should snap it the second. Here's what is alex. Say by the way. Alex has a weird delivery on his final cadence. What isn't is I can't. I'm trying to think of what it is. I have to go. Listen but is he slurs like the seco- sick set go or to the sounds like say what said what. It's a weird delivery that's not relevant. You don't hear it as much. I actually am interested in finding out what it is. Could you find out. Just go watch the game again. it gets hard understand. Yeah go pull twenty of them and we'll figure it out it's set goer set hot. Why can't think of exactly what it is right now. I don't know but it's the he slurs them together. That had nothing to do with morgan. Moses is three times being too quick. They're used to that Push around a little bit by. Tk what got bowled. What's twice got beat by speed. Once or twice godse touchdown to by logan thomas. I can't i can't for the life of me tell you what he's doing. Go pull up in your. You'll watch it with amazement. Like he's just attacking hard outside like he's jumping outside of of what basically saying here. Run inside of me and the quarterback was interesting. What he did he had to have had a plan for it. I'm just not sure. Why are we like to hear that. Morgan was a deep loss. Sheriff s consisted. I i'm gonna say this though that pittsburgh defensive line is is good their stout air hard to move. There was not a lot of movement upfront. Even with sheriff and he's staying on blocks he's fighting through things but it's not the double team push guys five yards up the ball. They're no kendall. Ray as playing for pittsburgh no no But i thought it was pretty good in pass protection you know. I the first like real downgrade. I had them like. He's got his ass whipped. What back watch it again. It's wes martin wes. Martin was playing with my came in for for five. Plays right when jeff got hurt. Share for the be in this game really not excellent in anything. He did not terrible in anything. He did not movement in the run game but on blocks not great quanta the second level but still try. It was a c. minus it was just an average performance by three. Maybe a little bit less than average sweitzer again You look at some of the stuff has versus what we have what we've seen in the past few weeks and you can just tell they're a better team. I mean it wasn't a bad performance by sweitzer wasn't necessarily a great performance. See and then. I think the interesting one is lucas. the one thing i think lucas can do. I think one on one with with some coming off the edge. And i'd like to see him against the a true big time defensive end. 'cause fifty six is what they see at sixteen charlotte last year. Highsmith highsmith last year at shot. He's a rookie lecturer at the university of charlotte sixty s still impressive. Of course he knows how to rush. But i think lucas just one on one pierce that he's got a chance you know with some speed or some parapet edge. I think there's something to look there. But he's got slow fees right now. Some of the zone run stuff really slow feet not aggressive not attacking really slowed passing stunts off. We almost tight and steph in terms of passing. Some sounds awfully inside. Put work was really average hands. Were just barely okay in in some of the things just first game completely playing in a tough environment. Tough situation not a lot crowd noise. Lucas was a deep in this ball. Game in it's you've been consistent with anybody that they've put in that position. Besides i thought morgan did a pretty good job the last couple of weeks that you really just average right idea that that's something they're going to need to address. So the biggest win for the franchise in years a performance offensively where they were down fourteen. Nothing and they scored twenty of the game's final twenty three points. It's not like the defense. Got a bunch of turnovers or a couple of big special teams plays. I mean they had the last interception that set up the last field goal but You you ended up grading. I think harshly. I mean In one of the most important games and important winds your best grade. You didn't have won a in the game. And i would have thought going into this. Logan thomas mckissick cam. Sims and alex smith would have all been potential as and maybe with alex because of the first half in the jumpiness which i described also As part of my recap that you that you also saw on film you know the be plus a good grade for him but The offensive line which gave up three sacks in the first half none in the second. Your best grade was a b and everybody else who's either a sierra de interesting i've got i've got one calculator real positive. You should take a real positive out of this. Yeah the question was with a quarterback that can just manage a game in a really good defense and some you know okay. Skill players around him other than terry in mckissic. Can you win football games and they wanna football game. that's true. They can play better than they can absolutely play better than that but they played a really really good to get tough. Pittsburgh is so sound defensively. They play great vision and great is in the secondary and on the linebacker level. And they make you earn everything you get their stout in the run game too hard to move off the line of scrimmage. They attack physically downhill from linebacker spot. They're good run defense. They're just across the board. A good defense and alex found a way to make enough plays in this game had enough timing and rhythm to get the ball out to guys that he had to get the ball out to and the couple of big shots when they are available. They took them and they got him. They got more than they didn't when they took shots down the field. So yeah. what we've said is is alex off. This game. shows me that alex's enough for this team to win any football game so is i graded harshly. I think in watching this grade this game. That's probably the best defense. They're going to see for a while. They found a way to score points and won a football game. Yeah that's the positive. I have one question for you to finish up the show right after i quickly tell you about mybookie. It's the most wonderful time of the year that can't end soon soon enough. We all deserve a win. We all deserve a little extra money in our pocket. We all deserve to have a little fun. The only place you're guaranteed to get. All three is my bookie the only sports book. That doesn't care whether you're naughty or nice this year cooley. They've got gifts for everybody. Bet the nfl but the nba. That starts up soon. Bet college basketball right now. That college football and more up today and receive the ultimate stocking stuffer a fifty percent deposit bonus two thousand bucks so if you use my promo code kevin dc. You're gonna get a fifty percent deposit bonus or match so they you know you'd be a deposit eight hundred bucks they're going to give you an extra four hundred dollars to play with. It's simple sign up. Enter my promo code kevin. Dc get your deposit matched halfway up to a thousand bucks head over to mybookie to make the most of the holidays this year and strut into twenty twenty one with cash in your pocket this winter. Bet the best bet with my bookie my one question. Is this on friday and on monday again. You described this game as the scott turner game. What would you grade scott turner. I could see plus. I don't think he helps schemed him. I don't think he did anything crazy. But here's where i would maybe even go into the be range. I thought they made good adjustments is the got into the second half of the game to make one. You've got away from your primary run scheme with antonio gibson and you've got away from some of the first and second down calls in the game where you were getting blitz pressured and you didn't necessarily have the exact answers for in those moments. I think that that's really impactful. I thought he made good second downplay calls throughout the second half where they did not have to get into a ton of third down situations you know. They weren't good and third downs. They re the third down playcall throughout the game. Were really simpleton playcalls which pittsburgh covered really. Well that's a rude. They're not simpleton. They were just more basic than i'd like and i think in part they get more basic when they don't feel like they can pick up pressures so they're trying to make you know really average type place down the field But the second half they did find a way to keep some balance with the run game. A couple of those touchdown drives they have decent runs on the play or on the drive and ultimately i thought he kept his team rhythm in the second half other than you talked about that one weird bubble. I didn't i didn't like that call. I mean i'm gonna go back and save it. It's not dangerous. But i. I thought that was one of the las rhythm type of calls the other things you can get to and i don't know why they can't get to that with all the blitz pressures and first and second down situations. They still do not know how to find a way to screen to the bat. I'm getting. I'm getting six seven men pressures and i and i and say hey. Let's let's call screen is back. You know there's but it wasn't it wasn't. I wouldn't say that it was an all around game. But he went to what he knew was going to work in the second half and some of the empty set looks were was working against pittsburgh and they attacked to the underneath part of their defense and they made some place when they got a couple of those plays. They took a shot over the top on. They could get him. If i didn't say this to you yesterday. I think part of the problem is with the first half was obviously. they're playing. the best defensive played awhile. Secondly they had shitty field position. They started at the fourteen. They started the nine once they started at the one once. It was a terrible field position game for them throughout until they cut the last turnover they had the one the field drive at the end of the half was the best starting field position other than the turnover at the end of the game and that started at their own forty one after a relatively short punt you know with a minute to go and when fortunately i thought there for a moment that rivera wasn't gonna call us timeouts to get the ball back at the end of the first half but he did call him after second and third june and i think actually he approached that the right way. Because you don't want pittsburgh you don't pittsburgh got a one or two yard gain on first and ten from their own ten yard line. You don't want to call it there and then have pittsburgh get aggressive. You know so. I actually thought he handled that well. but i think field position had a lot to do with it against a really good defense still to this massive. You start thinking about how many downs people get against pittsburgh company. Big place people get against pittsburgh. You know it's not. It's not a lot so when you're starting backed up. Your percentage of scores on those drives are are really love. The the one thing i would say is they didn't flip the field on a couple of those poor field position opportunities. The defense is going to be good when we do this tomorrow. I'm sure the defense is going to be outstanding. But it wasn't bad. I'm not sitting here telling you it was terrible enough. I would say that. I take more positive about it then. I would negative even though the grades positive. I think that you look at this and you save. They know how to win a game on offense or they know how to do enough to win a game on offense with a really good defense and they protected the ball of other than the one. Mckissic fumbled again. It was and it was good enough. And they didn't losing fumble all right and that was the that was actually the question. I think we had is good enough on offense. Get enough to win games. It gets good teams in the jets. It's certainly was the other night. Which is why we think they're potential. Moving forward is without much limit Thanks good job back tomorrow. Cooley will have The defensive film breakdown On the show tomorrow. And then. I think it'll be a really interesting preview. On friday of the forty niners who you know on paper should be the second best defense are going to face here down the stretch Have a great day cooling. I'll talk to you tomorrow.

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NLU Podcast, Episode 315: Rob Collins

No Laying Up

1:00:06 hr | 8 months ago

NLU Podcast, Episode 315: Rob Collins

"Beater right club today. Yes that's better than most about. It is better than most than ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to the no laying up podcast Today's interview I am so so excited to play it for you. We caught up with Rob Collins the designer and golf course architect of course for Sweden's cove we talk a lot about Sweden's co we talk about land man. We talk about the buck club. It's pretty encompassing. We've gotten bits and pieces of the sweetens. Cove story From rob on the podcast over the years and videos but we needed the whole thing in one place and that's what we got today and it got emotional at certain times he kind of teed up a little bit. I couldn't help tear up. You're talking about the story and I'm a sucker for a perseverance story of course. And Gosh he he tells it and you can see the effect that it's hat on their some shocking revelations about about that story so even if you're not familiar with Sweden's Cope. I think this that story is gonNA mean a lot to for people to hear so I wanNA give a shout out to our partner. Charles Schwab the Rob AND HIS PARTNER. Tad King are the subject of the late one of the latest study videos the Challenger series that they do you go to Schwab Golf Dot Com. You will see a series of the whole the whole lineup. For Season Two. For their challengers people that challenge the status quo imbues awesome films that episode four develops for them one of the subjects. You might recognize five of the subjects. You might recognize on that Web page but as well you'll see Robin Tad story on. They were going to tweet the link to that as well. Along with a link to this podcast. But they're the ones that kind of helped set up this this this network for the Challenger series of these podcasts. Were going to do. We did thing last year. Brought you might Kaiser and bill core and all kinds of Casey Martin. All kinds of great context Schwab's really doing some awesome stuff in the game of Golf Schwab. Golf Dot Com is where you can find all those and check out the kids video. We got a pretty sweet with. They came to kill House and made a nice little video on the five of us and turned out great. We're very humbled by that. One last shout out again to our friends at callaway of callaway golf dot com slash. The match they are. You can sign up to subscribe to the email for a chance to win a callaway. Seth staff bag signed by Phil. And there's some other signatures on that. I may say that you might recognize and you can also sign to win. A custom fit set of Calloway. Maverick clubs so keep an eye on their social channels throughout the week as they give you details on how you can win those you might even notice. They won the driver count at At the match of course is gaming. The Maverick but if you look closely in the bag of One of the quarterback. I'll just say the quarterback that was able to keep the ball on the planet. You might have seen a maverick driver in his bag and Also Chuck Charles. Barkley had had a maverick did he. I think he kinda threw under the bus. We're going to assume jokingly as he went to go tried at least make bogere better on the eighteenth hole kind the below bonus thing that they filmed early in the day. But Yeah if you look closely at the match. There was a lot of Calloway in the bag. And yes go to callaway GOLF DOT COM SLASH. The match the match has passed. But don't don't let this content go two ways there's good stuff on there fills podcast episode with. Calloway's up there and it It's it's classic. It's exactly what you'd expect from Phil but it's definitely worth your time so again. Go TO SCHWAB GOLF DOT COM. Go to callaway golf dot com slash the match without any further delay. Here is the man Rob Collins a while. I'll start this by saying you've been before you roam zach after the ringer a about a year and a half ago if we covered a couple things twice. I'm not worried about it. We're happy to welcome back. Mr Rob Collins. We are in the Sweden's house. Sweden's out the picture. A world that this something like this would exist. It people are buying real estate around one of your crazy. In fact Colton shed. Today he looked at me goes rob. This is just one of those days. Could you imagine this and it was when you know? Kisner was out there playing drew. Welcome and no couldn't have imagined this and here you guys are got kill. House north over here. The birdhouse believer got Sweden's wall to it. We we've been decorating. We built. You helped us built tells the front yard. What's in the Front Yard? We've got an awesome. The House next to the first green at Sweden's cove with with some friends of ours and we'll be renting it out to people over the of the years. It's the one that overlooks the first Basically the first of all the par-five so tell us what's in the front yard so the the guys had an idea forest to to help them build a little t in the front yard and one of our good friends Jesse Smith. A good friend of the program Got Him some sweet ASTROTURF. Got An excavator out here and got him a little flat spot. And then Justin Hill came out and dialed in a flat flat concrete pad and laid down the grass. So now the tenth attempt to is going the routing instead routing a good angle. Well it's funny. The the we were at the ringer I forget what it was about a year ago. I guess around this time and we're doing an alternate shot match and I won't through my partner under the bus but my partner hooks one. What would be on one? But it's everything's lateral here and it goes in this yard right next to a for sale sign and I had to hit it out of this yard and hit a hit onto the green as a wild shot and I came back and we like everyone's gotTa Buy House now and I walked in and to the clubhouse and I was like guys that House next number music art. Were already on it already. We already got the phone number. Down WE WANT WANNA buy. That's amazing out here. A couple of months ago with somebody and they were like I can't believe knowing that house. I knew I should have bought that house. So you had some you had some competitors and and I'm glad you guys swooped in nailed it. Well I WANNA talk a lot of Sweden's and we've done that before but I think people also have to know a couple of different projects you are involved in in in different parts of the process. Let's start with Landman for if someone is listening to this and has no idea what landman is What what is it? Where is it and what? What's the current Status Landman? Golf Club is a going to be a new eighteen hole course in homer. Nebraska which is about an hour and a half north of Omaha and is really on a wild piece of terrain sitting on a bluff overlooking the Missouri River and the analogy that I gave was like if sandhills and Shinnecock hills had a baby but instead of giving the baby straight milk they put some LSD MILK. This decide site that that's what they're baby would look like. It is insane like there's one tree on the whole site. It's just crazy rolling terrain. We got contacted by guiding Willy Anderson. His family owns a farm out there. And it's really important. Part of their family history has grandad used to own it and he's really good. Golfer loves golf and he contacted us out of the blue last summer and we went out there and saw in. Tatton our just like Holy Shit. Look at this place. I mean we've been fighting for five years to get that big break and we knew it right then when we saw it and it's funny because it's the opposite problem we had it Sweden's cove which was if you haven't played it. It's a dead flat piece of ground flat as tabletop and we had to pump everything up to make it interesting. We've moved two hundred and fifty. Three hundred thousand cubic yards of dirt in we you know built these features up to kind of create interest and contour. There were toning everything down and is it a site that would scare other potential architects. Is it that dramatic? It is that dramatic. I mean in fact there were Scare might not be the right word. I think it it it. It turned there was a few that were looked at it. There was one other guy who wanted to do a project there and fortunately we got it but there's another rather famous architect who looked at it and he felt like it would cost too much money to build a golf course there and he wanted to do a golf course down on a piece of property they have on some sandown by the Missouri River but when Tad and I looked at that site we felt like it was an interesting site but it had water table issues and we were doing and as it turns out. They had historic flooding in that area. This year in there was water all over that golf course. What would have been that golf course so we? We definitely made the right decision. And a site. Like landmines just really tailor made for us where we can turn gusts loose and let them do their thing and You know the end result. The end goal is to have everything tied down and look like we didn't move any dirt in have big broad. Tian's to do that and that's what we're GONNA do but in reality to build seven or eight holes seven or eight of the holes out. There require some pretty heavy moving just to make it work just to make in that like you said that softening. Its we're saw making your softening more dramatic the I wanNA make you repeat it because what you told me when I saw you last was describing. Forget I don't know what whole number it is but the sit walgreen you're designing landman the description of what that green at the the actual height in the elevations change within that green. Stunned me and I still struggling to understand. So what can you tell us about that? So if you don't know there's a famous green that Alister Mackenzie built at a place called Sitwell Park. And he received a lot of you know. Got A lot of FLACK FOR IT. But some people loved it but ended up getting getting demolished. But there's a picture you can Google Google sit. Well Park Alister Mackenzie. In this picture will come up. And there's seven or eight guy standing on different levels of this green and it's green. That's climbing this hill in. It's just insane green with all these different pockets and huge contours and Tad always wanted to do is sit well partnering. We've always look for place to do it. And we found this piece of land out there going to be the seventeenth hole and the end result is the green probably climbs twenty-five thirty feet from the very bottom to the top. And it's like it's GONNA probably end up being about thirty thousand square feet and it sounds insane but it I promise you it's actually going to work. I mean it's so big and so broad and it's a short par for so it works to a three hundred yard par four in you know if you get in the right spot you know you can make earlier eagle but it can punish you too so but it's just a different take on an old thing. We use the phrase their big break in. That was kind of something I wanted to talk about as well. What did it take longer than you thought it would have for a big break considering the success of Sweden's cove and especially It's it's a weird time. I WANNA do the time line here. But it was a long time before Sweden's cove got recognized by anyone but even once it started to be recognized it felt like kind of like he's got to be getting a big job at some point in. This feels like that big break to you. This is definitely our big break. There's no doubt about it and we you know we. We only do two jobs a year. Maximum this is our first great project on a great site for a great client and I was thinking about it last night. And it's like not only. Is this our first big job? We're like we've really got to hit a home run. So there's were trying really hard for that reason. But also for the Anderson family. I mean they gave us our break and we want to hit the biggest homerun ever for them. And so there's that side of it and then it's also just kind of reality that these types of jobs don't come along very often in we're just out there really buckling down. We're fortunate to have a lot of really talented people working with us. And I couldn't be happier about what I'm seeing so far. Yeah that's exciting. Well I don't we do some some sweeten stuff now because I've I've keep referring back to the lying four blog post by Wilbad while they did a great interview with you. And I'm not asking you to read to regurgitate everything word for word from it. But you mentioned we as in Your Group. I like you kind of describe. Your your firm is and who your company is and how that came to came to fruition and what your background in architecture is and how you ended up where you are today sure in in two thousand five two thousand six I was working for Gary Player is a what's called a design coordinator. It's basically like onsite architect carrying out the vision of of the senior designer from player and Tad Metal no project in Florida tacking. Tat-king my partner owner on a project in Florida called the area at Twenty Eagles which it's actually no longer in existence and Steve smyers ended up coming in redoing it but any long and short of it was and I were on that project and we noticed that there were real inefficiencies between the way things work between a contractor in the architect. I was having a hard time getting the contractor to do what do player group wanted. And every time you tried to make a little adjustment there was a change order and it was expensive and had looked at each other. We hit it off and got to be buddies and said look. Let's let's form a business. We'll call it King Collins and we'll be design build firm and we cut out all the BS in the middle and we'll have total artistic control and everything take take the whole project in the You know the the recession in two thousand eight really forced our hand and I moved home. Didn't have a job. I ended up having to do some landscape architecture work which was like pulling teeth for me not going to fast. Pass that you're in the middle of of constructing a golf course. That's right. I was exactly. We were doing a project up in wild stone. Cranberry British Columbia. Which I believe you you guys have played. I know tron splayed Neal's played it. It's a really neat golf course. We were right in the middle of that the day that was at Lehman Brothers collapsed and we were grasping the third very way now. I walked up to this guy named Ryan Kalinka who was grass in the hall and I just said Dude we're fucked. We're totally fucked. This is over and sure enough. You know month and a half later. We having a young family back to Chattanooga to live in my mom's house which is not the greatest feeling in the world is a point thirty three year old and so hey I did it when I was. I mean you know. I'm lucky we had a place to land but it was. That was a low point. You know I didn't this career that I was after was up in smoke and I didn't know when the next time I'd be able to do it was about a year later. Tad kept staying in touch and I said man. Let's just do it? You know let's go for it. And so in two thousand and ten we formed King Collins and right around that time we got real lucky and had this nine holder in the squashy valley pollen our laps. I mean he was A. It's a dream site for golf. There's already a great golf course right when you say population great market for Golf. So when you when I'm looking at this great picture of Terry D and it was a lot like the golf course is already there. Just we just push it around a little bit exactly so what? Gosh I don't even know where to start with it but what was here. What was here. And how did you end up convincing something someone this non existent for literally at zero work to its name correct to this point so hey let us design a golf course here? We got a really good recommendation from a local Chattanooga Golfing legend. A guy named Kingdom His family has a long history in golf in Tennessee. And he recommended me to the client. Who was the Thomas Stanley? The on a local concrete manufacturing company and they own the golf course which was the old squashy valley golf and Country Club in two kings always confused very confusing exactly. And so the Thomas is ended up hiring us to to rebuild this very decrepit nine hole golf course which at one time had been a really important part of the community here but had fallen on tough times gone through a couple owners and this is an important part of their family history and they wanted us to improve it. We set about doing that. We built a golf course in two thousand eleven. Two thousand twelve. It took us about a year to finish it. It's pretty clear early on that we had done. Something did had far outstripped the local market which we had been very transparent going into it. That was our intention. We I told reese I said look. Our goal is to build the best nine hole golf course in the world. If that's what you hire us if you don't want that hire somebody else. That's what we're that's what we want to do. And so they hired US and they had some difficulty on their end kind of knowing what to do with it and there are some differences of opinion about what to do with it and the golf course actually ended up getting abandoned in two thousand thirteen having never been open which the analogize give. When I tell the stories like that scene from Temple of doom when the guys Ritz heart out of people's just I mean I just remember that day. It was August thirteen. I just could not believe that. This golf course was finished minus some sand. Bunkers was not going to get open. And what how? How long had you been working on at that point? Well we We've grasped it out in two thousand summer of two thousand twelve in it was being maintained and I mean this little bit of a sidetrack here but the seed that we put out on the bunkers. If you've ever been to Sweden's cove there's like miles of bunker edge. It didn't germinate it was stored in a hot. This is trailer the framing around the frame around. The bunkers germinated in. So we were like well. I mean we've got a replant. It and I actually worked for free in all from like January to August of two thousand thirteen like redoing all the bunkers and helping the maintenance crew with other projects. Just just to get the golf course. Open we regressed all the bunkers and everything. And that's when that's when they pulled the plug but From It would have been. It was totally playable minus sand in the bunkers for the majority of two thousand thirteen. But that was at a time when it was. They just didn't know what to do with it so they were just kind of maintaining now is helping them maintain and helping them get the bunkers ready and everything and well. Let's let's backtrack a bit into. What is the golf course? What what became of the golf course. How what your inspiration was for it and how you came up with and how you would actually describe the philosophy of the golf course. It's unlike anything I've played before. But why is that well? It was really clear to me early on. I think there are a couple of factors outside of our control. That really helped drive the philosophy on it one of which is a nine hole. Golf course number two. It's in the middle of nowhere. And I told reese I was like look man. We've got to do something different. You know. We can't just come out here and do like something. That looks like nine holes at the honors. Course good as that may be we. We gotta do something different. We gotta be outside the box and one of my biggest architectural. Inspirations were heroes is strands and there's a lot of tobacco road out here. A huge fan of Pinehurst number to worship at the altar of Pienaar's number two. There's a lot of Pinehurst out here. There's a little bit of Pine Valley. There's I the original version of Augusta national was a big inspiration. Big Wide Corridors wild grains short grass everywhere. Tiny little windows where you really want to be in order to get the best angle you know you might have one hundred yard wide fairway but there might be a fifteen yard wide alleyway where you really. WanNa be and so. Those kinds of things were what we were thinking about. Which all that course handed down from the old course and Tad I wanted to basically mix it all up like if you put all these ideas in a blender and spit it out you might see something you'd say like Gosh. That kind of reminds me of Pine Valley or that kind of reminds me a her. I'm not quite sure. So everything in its. Physical representation is a little bit of a play on some of these things you've seen elsewhere and I think that's why it may feel familiar but different at the same time I don't like using the word easy with it but it is nothing. I don't WanNa say nothing intimidating about it because some of the slopes where you get the ball running away from you like hurt but I. I consider that the most enjoyable punishment in Golf. I hate hitting it. Ob I hate looking for balls. I hate hitting in the water. I I can't. I don't know anyone who loves going through multiple Gulf balls and around but you still want to be stimulated and challenged exactly at the same time. There's no shot. Almost no shots are. There's always a way to get to the holes here probably using some kind of slope. That's not right in front of you. That's right the first hole hits you right off the bat with? Hey like a big par-five you can come in with a five and you come with a three. Would you can come in with a nine hundred. Whatever you come in with but there are just eight different mounds around that Green Dunkin us to get to the whole hundred percent right and that. That's a lot of the philosophy behind it. And you know you. Lookit whole like number four. Which is a part three that semi-blind with the Twenty Thousand Square foot? Serpentine Green with all these mounds and falloffs and everything on its face. It looks crazy but what I was thinking about and what tad now. We're both thinking about during construction was like you know there's going to be easy. Pins on this. And there's going to be hard Ben's on this it's all about variety but also we were thinking. Okay let's say you have one hundred and seventy yard just standard par-three with a bunker on the right and it's angle bit in a bunker. Behind your average fifteen handicap is going. They play that whole Tin Times is going to have an average score of what maybe four or four and a half something like that and I mean they're going to. They're going to be a bogey Golfer on it in. I feel like that's basically the same thing that happens to you on number four at Sweden's cove even completely different. Awful like a fifteen handicap is probably gonNA average a for a little bit higher but one day they might just get absolutely ejected eaten alive in make like a six and then the next day they might have a little tap in Birdie. But it's like there's so many different options and so many different ways the game can play out on that that canvas that it's just it's more interesting and you know first time around you might look. This IS MICKEY MOUSE FOR. This is stupid this is this is too much but after you start to realize that you know. There's a lot of thought that went into it and it it asks things of you that maybe you're not accustomed to were you afforded a gosh. I was getting ready to say afforded luxury but I. That's just the wrong word to use in this whole entire time period but were you afforded the luxury of during this weird time period. Shortly after the financial crisis. There wasn't a lot of jobs to be had so that you had the possibility the time to basically extend your timeframe that you worked on this into making it a masterpiece under tight timeframe in doing this. Does that sound right? That's that's basically correct. I mean we did have a budget and we did have a timeframe within which we wanted to finish the golf course in do it under a certain budget but at the same time it was a home game for me and then Tad move down here for the last four months or so of it so we were able to dedicate ourselves one hundred percent of this thing in. That's a rare thing in in golf architecture. I think at the time there was maybe five or six golf courses being constructed domestically in the United States and the weird thing is to two of them were nine hole golf courses in eastern Tennessee. The other being the SALONA Golf Course. Right near where. I went to college just thirty minutes up the road from here and so that was kind of a weird quirky thing but we you know it was everything to us. I mean the thing that kept resonating in my mind was like if we screw this up there is no number two. We will never get another. I'm GonNA end up doing something I hate for the rest of my life. We cannot mess up and actually carried around this Carrying around two pictures my wallet. I got this golf holiday calendar for Christmas the year before and there was a golf course somewhere. I can't remember where in the northeast by I won't say the name of the architect in it was the most bland bunkering just total closure is no artistic input whatsoever just is a big waste bunker like the kinds of ones we're building out. Sweden's but it was just lifeless dead behind the eyes and I had a picture of I can't toured the golf course. The Fourteenth Boston Golf Club were the thirteen. Th You know that hold swoops down that really cool what the big artistic bunker gallon. Jim Did the punk in the middle of the centerline bunker and they took it out. That's Tugwell by IT'S A. I think it's a par five but it's got this amazingly artistic bunker along the left hand in I knew is obvious how much they tried. How much effort they put into that. I said this is. This is what we got. You know not necessarily on exactly copy that look but we're copying were or were deriving inspiration from that effort In construction to really build something special and so for me personally. One of my main responsibilities on the project had finished all the Greens and tees and fairways. I did most of the bunkering we had a assist from a core crenshaw shaper named Dan proctor who was awesome to work with to but when it all came down to it at the finish it was just me and Tadic in some local guys and every square inch of bunker out. There was ended up being hand edged by me and it was like I didn't care if it was like the back of of bunker island on the side of number three that you're literally never gonNA see unless you like duck hookup ball in their if it's like in front of number nine green everybody's GonNa see like all of it mattered to me. The exact same and that that was just the constant push was like just the more put into it. The more I wanted the more I wanted it the more I put into it and it was just became the snowball and it just it became part of me and I couldn't let it go. I could not let it go in. It just consume me. Yeah that's why I just felt like I owed it to myself like fucking work my ass off here you know. I got A. You can't stop now okay. That bunker doesn't look right. We'll get back out there and make it look right. Yeah even when I didn't want to or it was harder I wasn't you know I was working for free. Explain that you're working for free. I mean we had the client. Had you know completed their obligation to King Collins. They were they were great client. I mean I credit reese Thomas Our main contact with the he has as much responsibility for the existence of Sweden's cove. Is anyone I mean. He turned US loose. And let us go. And I'm just remarkably ca grateful for for that you know we we were done in two thousand twelve and it was declined at that point to get the golf course open. But as I told you the story about the bunkers and everything you know they were on a budget and there wasn't a budget to pay me but I was like well if I want it done right. I gotTa do it myself and so you know. I've had a few just like random landscape architecture jobs that I could do on the side to help pay the bills but basically all of my working time in two thousand thirteen was coming out to Sweden's and I was not getting compensated. How's that work within your family as well come days you know. She trusted me. A lot with this is really supported me. I mean it's not been easy for her. That's what I think. People can kind of tease people. That are part of the sweetens. It's a cult. I think at this totally recall but the story behind it is what makes it what it is. I mean and that's just that's one punch you got what are some other examples of just punches. You received along the way because that's not the only one. Well HERE'S A. Here's a humorous Poncho. We got probably in like June or July of the thirteen year. I came out in the morning. And if anybody's been spending any time around the Patrick Boyd friend former. Gm calls me the most hydrated man in America. I drink like two gallons of ice to you. I don't know why but I do and I came out in the morning and I had to pee really bad in I pull up. And there's a mobile drug lab that's GONNA test all these guys that are working for the concrete company. And why well? I don't know why but they were there. It was it was through the company in if those guys had gotten tested we had. We had a bunch of guys out there. At that point we had to like a pretty big crew going to help us get these bunkers right. I'm like if these guys get axed like. This isn't going to the WE'RE NOT GONNA finish. Yeah we need their help because you know every single one of them smoked weed or whatever and they were. They were going to fail. So I filled up the reason why the bunkers look so good exactly exactly so. I filled up a you know very own brand marion. County like twenty ounce mountain dew bottle with my own urine in took it down to the place where they were supposed to be in the cup. Every single one of them poured it in the cup in the past except for one guy who said Rob sprinkle a little bit of mine in there. And it's like why did you do that? He's anyway and I mean that's just one just one. That's just one example. I mean you know the biggest Gut Punch was the leaving them leaving the golf course and I actually got approach that day and they said Rob. Do you WANNA take over. I know you're the one who is most passionate about this and first reactions like well Hell No. I don't want to take it over. I want you guys to run it and thought about it for a day. I talked to I talked to Tad. I mean there's no precedent for that. No I mean I just I needed like one one millionth of a mile an hour wind behind my back to have I was going to jump off the cliff and so within twenty four hours. I decided I was going to in fact take it over. I needed a partner though in a look for a partner. Look for a partner in November of thirteen. I met architect nerve the founder as scratch golf in Patrick Boyd. Our Future GM. They came out to tour. The golf course of course has been abandoned for three months at that point in our he was like yes. Sure I'll do it and Mike sweet and so we got a break. We got real serious about the negotiations and then finally in May of fourteen. We took it over on our own. And and it was me and Ari and then and time we brought on some more people a huge kick in the teeth was we were chronically underfunded. We knew that we needed financial help. There was no way for me to do it ourselves and we had talked to a developer out Knoxville and that ended up falling through and we opened the golf course in October. Two thousand fourteen. I have some really funny pictures from that. Like Ron Whitten. The preeminent golf architecture journalists in the world and Adam Lawrence another one of the most minute golf architecture journalists in the world. He's from England. He was in the squad valley. For God's sakes to come to come to this opening in it was just the most cheapest opening you've ever seen in. My dogs are walking around. We had crackers. I mean was there. There's nothing you know. There's a blue porter let maybe in in case you're not familiar with Sweden's there's no. There's no food stand the clubhouse Yang shed. There's no bathrooms or any of that. So that does this House that the yeah exactly and so you know. We had these really important people in the world of golf architecture there just to see this opening and we ran out of money that day and I had to. You had to let the maintenance we had no more money in then so tatton. I maintain the golf course by ourselves. into like December Tad had to go home and go to another job ended up getting a job like in Jordan or some place in I continued to maintain the golf course for myself through the remainder of fourteen and then in early fifteen we raise some capital to kind of help us move on and we hired When you say maintain the golf course yourself. Are you mowing are you? Well it was. It was in the wintertime. And so there's a lot of bunker work the grass wasn't growing but it gets cold here in so you have to put tarps on the Greens and I'd have to pay out of my pocket to get three or four guys to help me put the tarps on the Greens. And it's an absolute beast trying to put tarps on these. Greens and and we did all that. Patrick and I have a funny story of Patrick's one of the most loyal guys ever in Patrick's like rob I believe in you. I believe in this place I wanna be the GM. I know you can't pay me now but just pay me my back pay. I'll sit up in the in the shed and so Patrick. We were open so patrick would sit in the shed not receiving any compensation on the hope that somebody would invest before April world around Because once the grass starts growing if you're not then you're then it's done if you're not getting play exactly and we weren't getting any play at the time and so even drum up play. Well we we were just scrambling so hard to get the word out but we would make a hundred and fifty dollars a day or something and all that money was going to the bank to keep the equipment package. We were way behind on our lease payments and they were threatening to take the equipment. They took the equipment we were done. Which was going to be compounded by me. Probably having to file personal bankruptcy and all this other stuff and so we just kept maintained. The golf course. We'd get some money and we raise some money in February. Would like right in time when we hired brand still our superintendent and as an awesome job out here and we open with you know very very limited maintenance crew and we got caught up on our lease payments and and then we just kinda just barely just one foot in front of the other for for a long time. But it's still I mean fourteen and then the you tell me the time line into fifteen where you know. You're getting play your your German on veterans money's not flowing in no not at all in fact we were hemorrhaging cash and we. We were losing losing losing money. All through fifteen lost money lost money in sixteen which we have this thing right now called this the summer. Sixteen that Sweden's where we've changed our way. We're running the business where we limit the number of people on the golf course on the weekends. We it's like the summer sixteen. Riyadh like this really well. Maintain Golf course but nobody was on it. It was like this magical time. I mean the only thing that sucked about it was we were constantly worried about going out of business but hopefully you've got some playing we you exactly got a little play in it was it was just a kind of a wild time to go out there on like a seventy degree day and it would be. There'd be like ten people on the golf course and the courses in perfect shape and it was very stressful and then fast forward to two thousand seventeen at the end of two thousand sixteen. I took one last insane financial risk that was just I mean. If it didn't succeed I was really in big trouble personally. And the golf course was definitely done. And we were just blasting through money in two thousand seventeen even with a shed on top of the hill of minimal maintenance crew. We just could not make the dollars work in golf course business highlighting. How freaking hard? It's really hard why you don't WanNa manage it yourself really hard in so. I had gotten to be friends with this guy named Dylan to chair. Who Now writes for for Golf Magazine and Long Story Short? He calls me and says that was right. Wanted to write a story about Sweden's Govan. He was gonNA shoot for the stars and try to get it in the New York Times and it was like sleep. Go for it. Good luck with that. They'll probably end up in. You know who knows what publication but he called me and early August the two thousand seventeen and said that he had done it. The Times was GONNA pick it up and this was at a time when I was working on a project tad down in Florida and I was in full panic mode. I mean I was absolutely freaking out. It was we were done. I was convinced that we were done. And we had just a tiny little bit of money in the checking account. My last minute gambit had not worked at veiled we were failing in that thing went in the times and it just it saved it. What what we started cash flow and at that point. What was the uptick? After it was immediate. I mean we two straight months. We actually broke even or made a little bit of money and it was Patrick and our just in our other investors were just beside ourselves like Oh my God. This could actually work. You know like we just got this tiny little glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel. We just Kinda kick the door down. Do I have this right and I guess as wills articles well to this day you've never drawn salary from Sweden's cove. I've never made a penny to this day. I still haven't made a penny made anything as insane. I understand that okay so all right so fast forwarding now twenty seventeen in near two thousand seventeen kind of when you start positive. Twenty eighteen is a good year when he was you know we. We did okay in Twenty Eighteen. But it wasn't you know we we were growing aren't quite connecting yet. But it was. It was like it wasn't to the point of losses. Where you were you know. I could put some money in from you. Know if King Collins had a project I could you know I could take some of the money I made from that and put it in prop it up for a month or two and that kind of thing but you are actively looking to be out of the man one hundred percent of data we were in that was the whole thing all along was like Rem Patrick and iron or other investors. Like we've got A. This is a great golf course. People love it storing to develop a following. We know that there's somebody out there we know it in. That was the whole intention. Was We gotta find that we talked? We had talked to so many people in Chattanooga so many people you know across the country and I mean I'd to develop a little bit of a chip on my shoulder about it with respect to the Chattanooga thing I'm just like I cannot believe that there's somebody in Chattanooga who doesn't want to get involved out here I mean I I can't understand it and the the more knows we heard the more pissed off. I got in the more at Doug Matt heels in the bunkers like the more up into the harder on stuck my feet in the ground which something. I've always noted with you. Is You have a tremendous pride in this place in a confidence in it you know it was not like Oh maybe it's not that good. Maybe it's not worth it. It's always like no no. This is my thing and it's great. It is great. I always admired people. That are it confident enough in what they've done to be proud of it in that way you wouldn't have risked everything. Yeah no absolutely I mean it was like this place is totally worked in it and it will work. I know it'll work in. I know we can make it work. We've just got to find the right person. In the fact that it took four years four or five years was just just a total head. Scratcher I but if you were to make a wish list of people that you would want to be a part of this ownership group in the state of Tennessee. What would that wishlist look like? Well I want you to tell the story in sequential order so your dream you will. Yes so Patrick. Are Dreaming in two thousand sixteen seventeen eighteen and we would sit on the porch and talk about people and like man if we could ever get paid manning in interested in this like he's a cool guy. He loves golf. Who knows I mean he would? He'd be the ultimate guy. I mean the list was Peyton manning at number one and then the number one hundred ninety nine summit somebody else I mean. It's just there's no way he was the one that we ultimately want more than anyone. So there's rumblings. When do you start hearing some rumblings that you have some interest in a potential and potential buyer or investor? Group went and kind of walk us through that time so I was sitting in the shed working checking people in September of two thousand eighteen. Kind of the season's kind of winding down and I got a phone call out of the blue from this guy named Mark Rivers. Who's a partner with another guy named? Skip Bronson they have a ton of real estate. Experience skips really into golf and marks talking to me about this project that he's interested in King Collins doing in New York and I thought well. That's that's cool. I'd love to meet this guy and mark comes out and we hit it off and I'm giving you mature around sweetens and he starts asking me questions and I'm like I don't think he's only interested in this project in New York. Just the way the things he was asking me and then very matter of factly at the end after he bought some merchandise. He looks at me goes. Yeah I think we'd be interested in getting involved here too and I was just like. Oh Yeah here. We go in We had just come off a very serious conversation with another golf developer. Well Known Golf Developer. Who had made a very serious offer to us to take. Sweden's off of our hands in. He just wasn't offering enough and we said no. We walked away from that point in time. We were like it has to be the right fit right at this point. We've we've kind of. We'RE NOT MAKING ANY MONEY. But we're not gonNA have any destitute either. We've got an asset. We've got to find the right person so we were. We knew we needed the right group in the conversation. In the tenor. The negotiations with mark in skip in Were completely different than anything I'd ever encountered the first three years it was always just total dismissal from people like oh they'll never work. You're basically an idiot for doing this and then it was like. Oh yeah this place is amazing. We WanNA steal it from you mark. Skip were like we want to be partners and we want to give you the rocket fuel that displaced needs to really take off and as it turned out we cut a deal with them and mark was really good friends with Andy. Roddick and Andy was part of the group and the in. Another guy named Tom Nolan. Who is really well connected in? The golf industry used to run the golfs. Ralph Lauren Division and is very well connected. He's part of the ownership group. It was just a dream the dream scenario and that all came about right around the time of the the ringer in in believe it was in March of Nineteen We were kind of ceiling that deal up sealing the deal up and so you go out to dinner with with mark. I believe that's right now to settle it. Well we we actually mark and I. We had a deal in place and I was going to get to go meet. Tom Nolan for the first time. I'd never met Tom Marks. Let's go we're going to go out to dinner and Tom's coming in town and we're GONNA meeting. I'm like okay. Great that's awesome so we went to this. Ruth's Chris Steak House and I'm sitting at the bar with mark and my back's to the door and mark goes. Oh Hey they're here in a thought they that's kind of weird thought. We only meeting Tom and I turn around in walking towards. Is this guy. That's one guy that I assume. Was Tom Nolan. The other guy. That definitely wasn't Tom. Nolan was peyton manning in paid. Walk Up to me and goes peyton manning and I said Hey I'm Rob Collins and mark goes and he's your fifth partner and I'd just like Holy Shit come believable in walking through a crowded restaurant on a Thursday night and Chattanooga to a back room behind Peyton manning and looking at the looks on peoples faces covered seen I mean. He's you know people just like. Oh my meaning you know he had. He has a way in the states own for sure. But it's like how do you go from everything you're talking about from twenty thirteen to that moment so it was insane texted denise and? I said you'll never guess who the fifth partner is. She texted back and she goes peyton question. Mark in an senator this Gif of one Payton in one of those commercials where he's not in his head and and then I texted Brent Brenta huge Tennessee. Fantasy said you'll never guess who the fifth partner is and he goes. Oh Shit I'm going to Shit Peyton. That's like just wait till tomorrow. You'll see and I believe you relate the story of you call and Patrick. Give Patrick a call and say asked him. The question. Like who's WHO's the one I said Patrick who's the one guy we want. Peyton unbelievable it was. Just I mean every time I read wills piece. I get choked up in the restaurant thing. I mean it gets me every single time. I just can't believe that happened. We were so close to dying so many times in then to like hit a walk off. Grand Slam in the bottom of the ninth. The world series like out of the Stadium Bat Flip Insane. And now you're onto landman now now we're on the land man and you know. Sweden's is The analogy I give is it. It's like a fruit bearing tree and it took a long time for it to bear fruit but now it is in in now. We're getting those phone calls that we always wanted and I always used to get kind of triggered an ad spout off on twitter every now and again about you know. Oh you know so and so's doing a golf course in. Well they're gonNA look David McLay Kidd core crenshaw and in Tom Doak and now they might cowgill Hans to and it's like big fucking surprise. Really you know but you know sweetens just kept growing in everything that Tad have is. Thanks to Sweden's I mean the leads that we get. I just talked to a client today. You know looks like there's something that could happen to that was thought was shelved and that's thanks to Sweden's landmines. Thanks to Sweden's wills buddy. Cj knew all about Sweden's go will actually hadn't heard of it and so you will interviewed a few other architects and and everything and Jaysekulow colleagues guys did Sweden's Govan so we'll emailed me and I emailed him back and that's how it happened. You know. No Sweden's no nothing. Well what would you? Who have done if you. It's hard to say. Now you landing in such a great situation finally after so many years of perseverance. But what would you have done differently? Man Gosh I don't know I think the perseverance was an essential part of it but You know without that. It wouldn't happen but like maybe we could have been a little more proactive here and they're trying to talk to different investors but it was always a hard conversation but the funny thing about it is is like if I had done something differently. The history may be completely rewritten. And we wouldn't have gotten that grand saying we would have liked. Hit a double off the wall. Butterfly Effect is to. Yeah it's too. It's too much we didn't win did I? Don't remember this until recent years. When did the flu? We kinda hinted at the top. When did the flooding hit you? When it CA- where does explain to US WORSE? Weeden sits and what happens periodically up here in Ny Sweden's in a in a flood plain next to a creek call battle creek that spills into the Tennessee river and periodically. The Golf course floods. We had one flood during construction and it was rather harrowing that the first time he just can't believe that all this sand and all this shaping that you've put together like water and we all panicked and then it goes away. Goes down through the drainage system and it goes away and normally when you put the word flood and golf course in the same sentence. It's like this brings up these really bad images but traffic at a stop out of images like like the greenbrier where there's rocks all over the Greens and stuff. But that doesn't really happen here. Kind of just comes up slow and goes away and like this year was just the worst year we've ever had with letting it flooded eight or nine times in in and I feel so bad for Brenton guys. I mean they've got to go out there and put it all back together and I mean it's funny. You look at their certain parts of the golf course like over by number three and number five where the water comes across and it comes across it the exact same point every single time. It's been doing it for thousands of years and it just rips of Santa Right out of the right out of the bunker and they have to go and put the sand back in that same spot and nine times a year and you clean all the debris off in the fish out of the catch basins. And it's just a nightmare. But it's a resilient course to it survives me buying it today. It was in incredible shape. I I couldn't complement Brenton. Those guys enough. I mean for the condition that Sweden's in right now with all that water. They've done a remarkable job. It was fast and firm and degrees are incredible right now all right well. We're almost fifty minutes into this chat and we haven't talked about the buck club yet which has been we. We had you on the podcast a year and a half ago with Zach. We're someone talking about. We got to answer talking about the Book Club. The plans for it I think at that time Zach insinuated that the dodgers might would hopefully start in. May of twenty nine thousand nine. Yeah that did not happen job but the club is active in running so tell us about where things currently stand so zach has had his eye for a couple of years on piece of land in the sandy piece of land in the southeastern United States where he could potentially launch the buck club and of course it was always considered a Utah project and that was the intention but as we got into trying to make the numbers work between a very expensive land purchase in a very expensive construction because that golf course on the upper one hundred side out in Morgan. Utah needed to be sand. Capped you needed drainage and it was double the amount that it's going to cost to build even more holes in the southeast on sand. It's not possible to just put sand down on US soil and had it be the way you WanNa play. It just takes a long time in cost money. I mean you have to bring that sand in Zach found sandy site which is the ideal you know soil for golf. Course it requires less drainage so it costs half as much as it would've cost to build it out in Utah and when you start talking about those kind of differences in numbers you get into a place where were economically. The but club starts to make sense in so Zach is secured. This really remarkable piece of Land Sandy. Four hundred seven acres rolling terrain. It's pretty funny. Zach Zach has one of the most creative minds of anyone I've ever met in. He's always tweaking around with the routing in the whole designs and stuff that he's putting together and he'll send me these these voice text messages and I was listening to one the other night and denise goes. Oh here we go again. He's got his voice. It's very distinctive. And he's okay. Here's what I'm thinking on number three so got fucking sick. Dogleg and this and that and those necessary. It's it's so fun to to go through that process with him and He's actually got a lot of founder commitments already. I just thing is happening. It's really happening. How many holes? Where is it disclosing? The Zach has a absolutely brilliant concept This was his idea. We were out there two weeks ago. Walking around originally we thought we were GONNA do thirty six and then it was going to be eighteen. We were trying to route the best eighteen holes in Zach looks at me and goes I think we ought to do like four different loops of of six also twenty four holes. The clubhouse is going to be cited kind of in the middle of the property so that lot of times the halls are kind of coming back to the middle of the to the clubhouse and his idea is to have a championship routing then off of that. There's like three or four different routings. Were you could play a like a sixty eight hundred yard. Par Sixty nine coarser a. You know six six courses. There's a short course. And there's all these different iterations of the routing in those twenty four halls and so what the concept is in the mornings. You'd play the quote unquote you know championship. Pbc course the you know kind of the big one and then in the afternoon on Monday. Let's say it's routing number be and then on the afternoon on Tuesday it's routing see on afternoon following dates routing de so you kind of get always getting a different different look and then the way the cabins are going to be set up. It's really cool. You can come out the back of your cabin and play quick. Three or four or five whole loop. It's just tons and tons of variety. Great piece of ground there in a square inch of that four hundred seven acres. You couldn't easily build a golf hold on. So he's got tons of potential. Everything's lined up with financing and Landon everything. It's you guys are way further along. We're a lot further along than we were in Utah. He's he's working on the financing side of it but he's he's raising that right now in. The land is is lockdown so he's not funding it just from selling hats correct. That's right yes exactly. We got real real exactly real serious founder commitments of a real dollar figure completely private so if I missed this can well My understanding at the moment is to have a private time of year and then also a public time of year. Okay so it's a little. It's a little bit of both okay. So so everybody would get a chance to play with Nicole the original routing of the BUCK CLUB IN UTAH. We have it hanging up in our in the. I want to know how much of that the ideas you guys came up with their. How much is bleeding over into the new routing? How many holes are similar notes completely? Different piece of land is completely scrap in separate or I would say I would say that the the holes are not necessarily transferable but the mindset in the design philosophy behind it is is the same know. The Club in Utah was all about you know multiple avenues to the whole width. And you know all kinds of different playing scenarios short grass everywhere. It's a similar concept but just more fit to this different site. That's exciting. It's GonNa be fun to follow. It is pumped about wrapping wrapping all this up in kind of summarizing your career in golf your life in Gulf. What's what's your overall message about it. How do you? How do you summarize tied together? Everything you've been through and where you currently are it's just. It's been a unbelievable ride. You know I get phone calls and emails and stuff from guys who in turn with this which I wanna do I wanNA pass. Pass the buck along to people who helped a in. I always say guys like you know you're going to hear and the word no ninety nine times for every time you hear the word yes and if you really WanNa do something in golf or golf architecture just focus keep working hard keep plugging in good things happen and I think I believe that's true. I think you focus and have own in goal and and don't give up you're GONNA get good results well in my head. I like to give us credit for how hard we work to like. Build our brand but in in comparison like we haven't really faced adversity. I don't I don't know if I can actually pretty confidently say. I don't know if I would have lasted as long as you did. As far as getting punched in the face as many times. And we all get to. That's what I kind of think I said this at the end of the video that we made at the ringer. Sweden's thank you for building. That brings a lot of. It does bring a lot of people together and it could have very easily very very easily not gone away well and I always say you know to you guys that Sweden's would not exist without knowing up period would not exist tron played it with Neil in two thousand fifteen and sixteen and we're in Patrick and our working out in the shed all those days. We always ask you. Where where did you guys hear about it? And I mean every single day even when it wasn't crowded. Oh we heard about it from from laying up or the fried egg and in you guys are a huge part of the reason that we're here in the fact that you guys have this House. Here is like the perfect. You know it's story okay. Awesome so we. We both equal contributions to Sweden's Co. We oughta go hit some shots and we should go play. We grab a couple beers. Have you got to do it? But thank you for finally sitting down and doing the whole story of guy you big hug at the end we do corona fake exactly welby eighty real hugs but thank you rob Collins and let's go right club today. That's better than most about that is better than most.

golf Sweden partner Robin Tad Greens King Collins Mr Rob Collins Rem Patrick Tennessee Golf Club US Chattanooga Schwab Golf Dot Com peyton manning Golf Schwab zach buck club Casey Martin Golf Magazine
Survivor 39 Premiere Wiggle Room + This Week in Survivor

Rob Has a Podcast

2:12:17 hr | 1 year ago

Survivor 39 Premiere Wiggle Room + This Week in Survivor

"Josh lor- learn ler lower yeah that's a right welcome back to the brand new wiggle room podcast i'm rob sabrina here's the man started it all went down to fiji talk to twenty castaways days and the first one out here is the great josh wiggle josh how are you never should've podcast with me no you should've never done the podcast ask me well you said i know you said do it i did tell you to do it but i'm sure that there are at least a few nights choice you told i mean you told me i should do it idiot for doing it yeah it's worked out pretty well for me like i'm pretty happy with the deal but yeah yeah oh my gosh i'm so happy like i love this time of year when everybody sees the survivor premier and now i no longer have any secrets in the great the news for me is like i have no secrets to keep anymore because i wasn't out there for the forty premier so i'm in the dark as everybody else moving for a great time to be alive for josh whittier yeah is is it hard for you he's never slipped anything from all the time that you've ever been out there no it would be nice to be able to talk about it it's not i mean it's part of the job you gotta do it was easier it's easier when i'm out there with a partner in crime like mike this past season or if i go out and like dalton and gordon are they're the seasons were i've gone out on my own have been a little trickier like thirty five was a little tricky just because i was so excited because i knew that i was going to be a thing but i had that as like an outlet to pour myself into david versus goliath was was hard because like i had to sit on the fact that like hat's back got got tweaked on the boat and that felt like a really big thing to have to have to live with by myself that was hard that was tough but this one wasn't that hard this one i got to talk to mike about it a lot what was fun about it was like there's like nobody in the world who is guessing ronnie as the first one out you're looking down the list of the cast members survivor iowa and i think i had heard a lot of people saying like oh no we stand janet but we're worried for janet or just like some of the conventional wisdom and i don't think that ronnie really makes that list very often and i know bloom has talked about it but we ourselves were very sideswiped by the fact that ronnie was the one to go home where he went went home so it was kind of kind of amusing to see like people's guesses and that was not as far as i could tell there was not a lot of people that were not a lot of people who are who are close close to the to the correct answer okay well joshua's one moment rob on one of these podcasts like man that orange tribe curse though and i was like yeah and like i just got to play clerical obviously yard strive curses things so i think yeah okay so let me just do some housekeeping here and set up what we are about to do because just like survivor the wiggle room is evolving and evolving with a new twist this season and some twitch as well where josh and i are here we're gonna talk some survivor here up top today and and then we're going to jump into our wand off and that is gonna be a lot of what you're hearing on the wiggle room it's going to be mostly wander wander off and then we will bring in jordan for this week and survivor and ultimately this week in survivor history the quiz awesome awesome i love it yet things are this is just the way it's gotta be we have to we have to evolve we have to change the game we have to keep things moving being there's a lot going on in wigley ville these days in combat nation and among those things is i mean rob i'm podcasting more right now that i think i've ever podcast in my entire life we've got four active podcasts happening on post show recaps right now we've got lost down the hatch which is the rewatch you watch with mike bloom the mister robot podcast is back with antonio bizarro the walking dead podcast is starting up with myself and jessica lease we have a preview show that's on its way might even be in the post show recap speed as we speak the succession podcast with emily fox and i is starting to wind down but we've got a few more pivotal weeks going going on there and in fact we've got a great new recap with temp no it all dominik hrbaty is going to be on the latest episode of our succession podcast and i've got the series regular podcast at the hollywood reporter as well which is a weekly staying very very time consuming so between all of that plus the wiggle room i haven't even mentioned like all of the writing that i've got to do for crazy fall TV that's happening right now all of which is to say i got a lot going on and i probably have about an hour per week to talk about survivor and i think a lot of that is going to end up being one off and i think the wand off will open open us up to being able to talk about each episode as different topics are covered in the songs i'm sure we'll stop down and i'll give you my take on where things are going i hope that's not too disappointing for people it's really just a practicality thing i want to keep doing this podcast as long as humanly possible and right now this is just the mode that it's got to existent okay so a little part of the wiggle room is going to die so the rest of josh podcasting limiting does this like i can so i can live just there's legal or live i myself i mean i i am currently in the midst of i really didn't i would say to people in my real life that like i thought i had like two weeks before TV was going to start getting really busy because i have a bunch of active shows that i have to fairly aggressively cover for the hollywood reporter right now and i was off by two weeks and it turns out i'm already ready in it so i'm doing the wakeup work go to sleep works thing right now work is my life right now so i hope that you will give because i love what i do it's not a complaint it's literally just like we reached a certain inevitability is about time and this is where we are right now and i'm i'm very happy to keep laughing along here on the wiggle room it's just got to be a little bit of a condensed thing for me josh we appreciate you were happy for anytime you have for us here and really excited to get into everything with you today big time anybody or even though i mean you can literally what it is and for those of you who you're saying like well hold on i don't really like the wand off we will put the time stamp in the show notes if you want to skip ahead to the twists of it all with jordan taylor and this week's guests that we're going to talk about everything with going on in survivor and on the brand new mask singer zinger wrapup julia zan akili is gonna join us to talk survivor we'll do the survivor social media and then play this week and so i have a history quiz that's all coming up in one jam-packed podcasts but first josh wanna hear a little bit about your trip to fiji you got the see this all play play out was there anything that you saw in this episode that really surprised you i thought that the episode played really fair with what i saw i'm so i'm so happy that people got to see a moment of jack just being the strongest man in the universe there's that moment when they're on the frame and he's just holding onto the rope nope and he singlehandedly like launches jamal the rest of the way up the abram i remember being on the sidelines of the challenge and being like holy crap like how is he doing that is really really impressive to me to have that out in the world is pretty great but no there's there's a lot that i don't get to see while i'm out there including like beach interactions and when i got to see the tribe they were all business like everybody was just go go go work work work work work so didn't really get to see much in the way of personality and i did i did know that they had had fire at that point i don't think that i knew that that janet was the one who created that fire or maybe i'm just forgetting so that moment was really fun to see and then over at libero all that i got to see the and i saw that started making the rounds as an instagram video which is great was the survivor rap battle and the members of lyra who are just chilling in their shelter for literally an hour while bloom and i and the rest of the CBS KT while we were out there wasn't like the most action packed our but it was a hysterical our and so we got to see a lot more dynamic action in the show than i got to witness in person seeing the premier was really really fun for me because there have been things like i'd heard about the things that i didn't get to witness i get to see the challenge and i get to see the tribe visits which only make up a couple of seconds of footage maybe at the at the most but the fact that there was no marooning ruining i don't have anything to report on that i can say that like the paranoia that was generated by the lack of jeff that was very palpable out there that was very real and even like sort of like the heart sick feelings about jeff not being there to greet them and people being legitimately kind of sad about it like that was very authentic to the experience that i got to witness and then i guess get getting to finally see how IOI actually works on television that has been a huge question in my mind for how long has it been at this point in over a half half a year at this point that i've been wondering how robin sandra going to be playing on screen how are they going to be like featured on television and we we've got our answer got the judge did you get to go to the island of the idols yeah mike and i did we got to go there and we observed robin sandra working on building out their shelter which we haven't really snug that they keep talking about that's not the site of where they are trying to live live like their shelter is a little bit of a walk away from that i'd say like maybe like a five minute walk if that that seems even a little bit of a high estimation so make it i got to watch them wake clearing an area for where they hope to build like a multiple story house basically which which appear to be really really wants to see on the show and then another part of me really doesn't want to see it on the show because that means we're spending less time on this great cast but if they could find some way to just like suddenly appear in this incredible jungle fortress later on i'm pretty down well maybe that will be a future test of house that i built you build a bigger house than me oh my god well that's all it's been a classic survivor challenge in the past right so right now can can and robin sandra put these people to work get some actual manpower behind their effort i think would be amazing i would love to see that josh i know you also got to go and speak with ronnie on location you could listen to josh interview with ronnie as part of the series regular regular a podcast wherever podcasts are found or IT HR dot com slash survivor how was ronnie when you found him ronnie was was like barely sleepless by the time that i got to ronnie had a really rough night that night when he got voted out obviously emotionally for him but also the the weather had finally started to open up the rain finally started to come down after like a very beautiful weekend fee decided that was the night that it was going to start raining the survivor gods were crying for ronnie and i'm sure he had like a rough boat ride over he had said to me that he had some trouble falling asleep by the time time i got to him it was fairly early in the morning so he had had even had like the opportunity the opportunity to have like maybe like five eight hours of sleep and i'm sure he didn't quite get that so he was pretty tired he was pretty shell shocked listening back to it actually i was fairly impressed with how lucid he was like how much he got right about what went wrong and i felt like the version of ronnie we got on the show and i think it's despair because you only got so much time even with ninety minutes to tell the story that he comes off a little too d. and comes off a little bit more of just like a bad guy who got it wrong in array we're glad that she survives the night i thought that the way that he talked about what he did wrong he really owned a lot of those mistakes pretty quickly a lot of the stuff that he's been saying an exit press he got like the very next day i think he is a guy who has sharp reads and i think that he read correctly that what he was selling was not being bought and i think that that comes down to a variety of factors he talked about his his health not being the greatest going into the game just the conditions out there are rough on anybody but maybe like a lack of confidence actually despite the bravado coming into the game so he wasn't surprised that he the ended up going home ultimately he said that he would say a thing and instantly knew that he had just put his foot in his mouth so he wasn't surprised and i i was impressed oppressed by sorta the clarity he was he was speaking with even as he was kind of like punchdrunk looked like pretty punchdrunk but as soon as the interview is over we talked a little bit he seemed like he was in pretty good spirits he seemed like he was pretty ready to make the most out of the experience that now was laid out for him that he was going to be away from the world for a while he was really excited about the fact that like he's not somebody who had a lot of opportunity as a kid as a young person to read books and just relax and stuff like that and he's talking about how like in recent years has been trying to get into that and trying to read and he's been in recent years trying to reflect and examine on you know what he wants out of life and who he wants to become any felt pretty he strongly that he was going to get some of that out of the ponderosa experience so i certainly hope that he did in my interactions with ronnie i thought that he was a really really good guy i really liked getting to know him i was really sorry to see him go but i think that you could have said that about literally anybody on this cast at the time that i met them and i would have been pretty disappointed to see any of them go at survivor breaks your heart hot yeah now for romney yeah i thought he was really talking about like make sure if for viewing survivor driver make sure your health is in good order when you go out there like oh my god what's wrong with ronnie yeah i no no i actually don't really know what he was what he was referring to but even said it to me at the end of our original interview and again ronnie ronnie was the first person i talked to and for him to be the first one out if we're going in the order in which the interviews occurred the second person i interviewed was jason on it doesn't look great for him over i think we'll see if the if the interviews are like the new cast photo like the cambodia uh-huh cast photo that was cursed but yeah he mentioned like at the very end of the interview but we didn't get a chance to dig into it any deeper at that point it was like minute fifty and i was getting the rap sign nine hey keep these shorter okay and so i didn't have any that are longer than i think like a half hour at that point okay so i don't know i don't know the answer he would have to tell you anything else what's notable that you want to share from your adventure out there with mike bloom no i just had such a great time i had a really fun time time with with mike i know we've we've teased around the issue a little bit mike and i did go on a spear fishing expedition there is video evidence of this spear fishing expedition rob that i can send your way if you wanna win dead in the post to see a topless winkler and it is a hell all of a site i promise you he looks great you get to see me a trying my hand and spearfishing you get me you get to see me going after some clams comes in the ocean we make zepa deo no i got spit free experience thankfully i was very happy about that sounds like a quick quake three ish minute video that the great jason schuler of awakened films put together he's the he's one of the guys if you like what CBS puts out in the preseason those twitter videos and all the stuff jason is one of the geniuses behind that a hell of a guy really really funny funny guy and a challenge beast in his own right and he put this video together so we can embed that in the post and look if you've got mean things to say about my shirtless westbound just don't do it don't do it into yourselves i just don't need big brother test inside you'll get you want just don't ask me i don't really care i just i i just don't see it on social you just say like your house yeah just say it out loud just broke up jeez i thought that you were losing weight doesn't look like it yeah i know you can just keep that to yourself okay all right but it was great i i really loved watching this episode back i think that this is a premier that feels one of the premier's that feels like the closest to my experience i think about like the triple h premier and how that was really not close to my experience at all this one felt really authentic to what what i got to witness out there from like sort of like the confusion at tribal council where it really seems like it's the elaine show as one thing that was missing from tribal council is elaine talking talking about how she was so sure that she was going home that she went off in hiked around the island by herself to take all the sites and and like really stopped down and capture some sense memory of survivor because she wanted to fill her cup up so that was a really talked about at tribal council and be as really hoping that maybe we will get to see some of that in the episode and we did not but the way that tribal played out in person was very close to the to the spirit of what's captured on screen where it's it's just like i have no idea what the hell is going on how how did ronnie get caught up in this world it seemed like it was a lane with maybe slight possibility of vince but there was like the sort of like brimming tension underneath something going on and then there was like the first boat or to harare and mike and arabic i it's ronnie dunn dunn all right right you know you go any this and and remodeling you need to you can say leave your report making something happy for the rest of my life if you'd shot the circle ben just take your data the concern aw in aw man again now four it's fifth season the one-off wheel out the giant dan heads over the case where those those monstrously sized wombat hats gotta say they don't look good blown up like that one better yeah even i have to admit that the giant sized wombat pixelated it looks weird i don't like it all right so so this season should we have should we have the final wand off winner gets a wombat hat that is like as big as deliver deliver that i don't know how to do i like where your head is at no pun intended so that'd be great i don't know what about the ability is a paper mcshea bust i don't know how you make that or deliberate or got an idea we're we're hoping ideas sir we're nothing but open ideas on the spot yeah yeah listen the lost podcast that mike and i are doing seems like an evolves every single week so let let me also just throw out there that like this new version of the wiggle room i'm sure we'll evolve every single because we are doing it it will probably hopefully stay pretty close to the spirit of what it has always been we are open to ideas and we are open to price suggestions as well now for our new listeners just joining us maybe it's the first survivor season with us they might be saying wait what is a one-off what is happening right now what is this and to you i say good luck figuring this out i i wish you well done is our weekly survivor song parody contest where our listeners make six songs about things that happen in each episode of survivor and then they email them to wiggle room at rob has a website dot com tom from there they are screened by our great wand off guru randy new people and then he the app human being human being he then uploads into a soundcloud playlist we listen to them all right i'll listen to them all and then casey we see ksm the great radio legend decide who gets to play what's what gets played and what doesn't get played late in the show we have honorable mentions then we have a top five baby for the week and then people vote and then the tabulate occurred clark eh tells us a couple of days later who won a w- igloos wombats hat which we send out to the winner yeah that's the one i mean i don't know actually like hearing it like i don't actually actually don't i don't think it's that hard to follow yeah not that hard to follow bird but josh i know these if you even know about this there is a twist ask for this year's wand off and so i don't know what this is here to introduce this season's new twist to the wand off it's alex g and tyler jacob jones for our fifth susan legendary wombats return to the one between the two of us have wasted a depressing amount of time time rushing handoffs we both won the wand off and tyler is the only person to the final vonda twice the first thing that comes up is my one offs i have had to explain this in a professional setting wants now uncomfortable for the first time ever they won't be competing for the week igloos boombats instead they'll sing together on the loan track and serve as mentors to a new group performance with anyone wants us to own not wander wander off boot camp for every track is a chance for left if they can take what alex can teach them and what i can teach them they can take home the weakest one bats so literally we do is missing and mike feeling dawn school is in cech voter fraud from cherry hill it's good for your next to it doesn't take casey never make that mistake again coming this fall it's the one week learn of the wombats how w w i contend to arrive at one that nation a tyler bad news robin just didn't go for the idea no i put a lot of work look into preparing this i mean i was going to teach everyone about ABA structure and interior rhyme and how to get that perfect one recording quality where you can only understand about sixty five percent of exciting josh said they would if they could but they cannot don't start hi martin what the real now it's just a joke just played around a good joke around i mean they might mentor somebody if you if you're like hey i'm an aspiring wand offer and then could you former champs end up teaching me i will wander off that's hysterical i thought that that was masterful very very funny also tyler i owe you a jacket jacket this is part of the tradition as swell guys is that like you win the final want off and then you don't get your winnings until half a year later something like that yeah we're going to be good with the hats hats this season and we're gonna get the hats out quick a lot of people over here all right we'll knock them out okay and speaking of a man who is also a knock out a man who is back for his legendary fifth that season hosting the wand off here is the late great casey kasem rob is a a pleasure to be back here hosting the wand off yet again with josh wigley casey what up it's been a minute how are you my friend josh it's going okay i've got a lot of other things that i'm hosting so happy to be back here with you oh talking about the survivor song parodies yeah casey's schedule is actually busier than mine he is he is our intern behind the scenes means on the mister robot podcast casey communes with the ghosts of the island on loss down the hatch so the for people to know that so casey i'm sure that you're not complaining about the changes to the wiggle room as well i've got a terrible agent and i keep keep getting book for more and more gigs not good it's really bad as your agent philip shepherd he knows all about the ER rules he perfect thirds specialist have in your corner yes josh asia we need to get to this week's honorable mentions and it's only appropriate here that we salute our first hidden hidden etienne survivor castaway here with this admission from logan tom laidlaw eighty true served by for love from okay nedian fans bell man dan the true good strong why it just let it live on the field keep it i forgot to remind everybody does stand in her eyes and take off your hat and put the hand over earhart oh my gosh tom laid off i he's he's a really funny guy i that was a piece of the episode that just like the discourse of the episode maybe is not getting as much appreciation as it should is how funny les bois is like when they're having that moment summit where where elaine doesn't know at cumin is and that it's a spice only the liberal elite is like the joke and times like yeah they they bring it up to you in a limo like he rattled that off so so quickly and that's something that mike would be able to attest to as well as when we were there at the lyra tribe just like don't like layabout wishes he had he had like jeff probst jokes for days they were very very funny and not fit for air but they were they were really really funny and he was he's just he's a machine quote machine the happy to see that lay boss still in the mixture speaking of jeff probst jokes there was a lot of questions ends about where jeff might have been to open the season and here's jason lee to ask the question now is on everybody's everybody's mind where's joey pendleton i can't believe there's no marooning come on the worst was nowhere to be found is nobody around we're just the trip of the earth that was from the soundtrack all the nightmare before chris missy bird yeah as sang by jack scaling nicotine that's jack nicotine gene is a good dozen on survivor this season and jack skeleton is the character who sings the song and nightmare for christmas i know all of that skeletons josh russian you don't need to explain it to me do you think that this is that there that survivors like piloting this idea of of an autopilot opening winning are they are they are they trying to like be are out with thirty nine are they trying to come up with like the groundwork for jeff half being able to skip marooning 's moving forward because it buys them more time with the contestants potentially or do you think it's just in to engender the paranoia of the i wonder if the idols case guy jumping on on this one i'm sorry i was talking to her up i think that they'll mix it up i think go to they might do this little have more of a traditional marooning i play with it you know it's a season thirty nine they like to mix it up right casey and your thoughts on the matter i think jeff is holding out for more money it's only going to paying for thirty seven days show up on is holding out alright right could you next up here is dave from ohio to talk about something that was hiding at this week's tribal council jimmy fallon fought of the box jeff probst all about the john macarthur built in on the heinkel thriving title the queen allah whatever they do longtime adani and they walk off if they class from bill haley and the comets my god casey what did you think of the falun booth where you jealous that you couldn't be in that box or can your a physical form only being one box at a time i was jealous that i couldn't have spent more time in the fallon box in my career now would have been good next up we'll go back to sandra and rob talking in the fallon box here's carey and alex the episode was too dull they don't have talk no one can take the clean up when you send me do you feel bad and the f. go find i know that was a one-off classic from neath is lady gaga man casey hope you don't mind that i am going to talk to rob a little bit throughout these segments and rob i have to say that like the whole the whole whole concept of iowa is a good idea or is this a bad idea maybe the jury is still out on that ultimately but the moment that sandra says ethno no i vote you out and that's it from the foul booth it's like yeah i'm here for this this season this is super fund that's just ridiculous it's definitely fun to have them be be able to talk about what's happening at the tribal council the scripted stuff is not doing it for me i think that that's you know people have been talking about that like i think when you're reading like we are the idols this is the island of the idols this is the oath of the island of the idols the less of that the better our love like like like now we've got that cool that's established let's not hear that again because like the times you're just letting sandra be authentically sandra and rob be authentically rob so far have been amazing rob just like nookie ing elizabeth so hard on you shouldn't have played fire against me how dare you it's just like such a classic boston rob moment it's the scripted stuff that i'm not really feeling but the authentic stuff i think has been great so far yeah i i thought that practicing making the fire yeah i thought that that kind of dragged a little bit as we were watching the montage or learning how to do so but yeah that was very fun i i like that almost nobody's complained about that and that's you know uncommon on survivor totally absolutely absolutely all right can i get back in here yes yes of course just keep the same great it'd be great that's not gonna be hard for you guys at all next up here is swaggie j. to talk talk about the downfall of ronnie and all of his gambling brethren who came before him in the game some of survivor goal strategy driven poker player who's always running the odds all bought exploit exploit maneuver and strikes so you can use nine managing from the moment i think over online i kind of obsessed about me that i have about on survivor and any moment i wasn't out with my friends partying focusing on my way around the camp blake shown root beer it did swaps through like annotate some say that it wasn't fair i hated tell your try them brains were like ronnie who targeted they are elaine whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa how to play with al qaeda needed what tom mix go to see their hands full ronnie got got me why tell me why the poker player tucked at these in their job loving anybody that was one from and lady gaga dob bone i always love hearing the wa here in the room poker face a lot to get to yeah absolutely i mean i guess that makes sense right got a few few poker faces a a week where some songs were repeated but that was the only poker face that we got yeah i've been advised after releasing a six or so three hour lost podcasts in a row over the past month and a half that i'm no longer allowed to tell rob when he asked to go and live his life so rob feel free to just remix whatever you need to remix now understand that that is living your life you might be sorry about that they take it back here is robin from rochester who wants to talk about some of the things that ronnie has done any used to work at mcdonald's i think there was a point it but now he's just listing jobs just a list of jobs aaron sitting two feet away this former engineer wants sold cattle corn four five stadium out that really she we only had one job he said that all their friends aaron has a hard see all all think they're hot it i was he was he honestly i'm not sure beyond cdn gene that was from the supergroup go bon jovi wait so where are you preparing me for a litany of good bone is that what that was all be sorry john it's my first week back back supposed to say that lady gaga was lady gaga the angie cons type god it okay on on l. mind that's good speaking of ronnie's jobs we we have so some wand offers that were on the same page i hear is trevor from tacoma and and then nicole p it's various employments loss despite serious employments he can get a job job burgers and fries to mcdonald's guy can see you with the wild emotive i was a customer service advisor big birds bartender is paid not to be outdone here was a third we didn't start the fire parody nothing to do do with ron jobs from brad blackened goals needs the momentum into carbonation saddened ball three we didn't start the fire parodies all from billy joel luke yeah of course obviously just had a lot of different ideas and couldn't contain them to one song so had had had to get them all aw get them all out there dude you're a poker players just be a fricken poker player that's a critique variety you gotta just go out there and be who you are man you can't why about that your poker player just be that you are now big ally because everyone's like okay so he something that he's not not telling us and that's really shady it's like it's not great that you're a poker player playing playing survivor although maybe now it is right now there's like more for poker players like right just tell people and they allow the guy okay well we don't remember the player yeah go all right what one final honorable mention and this one comes to us from lindell and sarah from australia yes talking about a clamp need j'ai class it just they they say why i i been i i i that was from jonny fairplay cash but josh it's been kinda week where a lot of the one offers were we're on the same page sure here is a snippet from the johnny cash version of the same song long from jordan kayless aaron robertson but i'm only going to play you a piece because it was actually much dirtier than the lindell from australia really a shocker heart out dirty lindell from australia but these guys able to do it okay i'm nervous all i i can play scored my clue kids listen to this podcast that's it that's as far as you can go get listen the aristo wow if you want wow kayla right and dirty lyrics go topless they're speaking of top was was wigley there were people here and they were uncomfortable on my man well you'll have to pass my my horror and author ought to jordan when you speak to him next you could do that offline and it doesn't have to make it onto the podcast condo sounds great sounds good on oh my god and linda from australia reminds me that over on loss down the hatch we have activated the lindelof which is the lost equivalent of the wand off and if you are an aspiring spiring wanda f- artists who loves survivor but also would be up for making song parodies about lost you can submit those two down the hatch at post show recaps dot dot com and when we have enough high quality lindelof submissions we're going to just drop a lindelof i knew so i invite you to go for it we've gotta wombat station up for grabs it's totally different from the hat that's up for grabs here in the wanda go give it a shot see what you're what you're capable of doing josh are you ready to hear truck one eight top five songs in the country i've never been more ready in my entire life to kick things off here is a newcomer to the top five he goes by the name of greg de from israel and here harry is talking about a hygiene situation over on vocal somebody that i don't know but it's a pillow and i'm just like do it's only day two knockout but i'm trying to play a game master chin hey you okay and i understand that the combination of humans leading moya happy fun i'm emma germaphobe so oh back at your head go that's me right now but that was a great single go from taylor stocker swift wow that was great that bop bop that was up yeah as good speaking of ohio liked them known for bob or two corey is back to talk doc about a survivor legend returning season alright hey often rob is here in this one help love okay come on elizabeth really wants to know who the best singer is tablet that wanna try yeah let's let's go for it how do you want to in our done by god uh-huh okay my turn take red shorts but no one knows that but for the show big had but i have full control control the fed so nickel can't win it was seen a link the queen i'm nice but if you so i'm the dad spur without a bad shortage to soot before you go one more thing uh-huh that was found around billy garcia killed me at the first all right back doc visualizing boston rob trying to process what the wadden office he worked station one time okay did work on the morning god next up it's just a to me though the logoff banda boston rob's radar the season and man and if i had any guys book at all dead it's dead it's gone i never ever you ever again next mortifying next up here's bob with two bs talk about something going on over at boakye enough is enough a. g. and son take a little joy i hit gives good rob man the sweat glands release your shun welcome on oh no k. e. l. nonni gee whiz this girl he's got up that man his drifting hands are coming off affreux bid pervy oh well yeah well oh what we ooh that was the group all j. buyers clapping with your hands is it appropriate in your hands that's good that's where you want to be with them where they certainly keep them off the table please thanks would also be great and i was with ream when you were talking with him about all of this like the shot where like the dripping is going how much this is a nightmare this disaster this is a nightmare you don't even have to be like the active germophobic no no good i was told that the drip is good you want that trip i i guess that is something that i have not been informed us that's why i don't know what that filthy size i'm showing my age once again josh the number four song that we have for you this week it's another returning wanda off icon here there is DJ labelle klein to talk about some of the survivor contestants that are part of a a different tribe sir i think honestly i don't know you don't want to go the garrett at the swamp but you're playing well then to go out the way they're yeah for short one episode more like chicken instead of ethan's on your people maybe chosen was in barred ethically than i would not we edit was we shoulda less cochran more simpson i guess lame was not the wiser choice of boil oil becker cut you short like she was boil oh there's like potted adam adam klein a garrett handle all that the cia was playing loose somehow ronnie drew the dues joins the early booted jews news maybe the soup you choose but you really have to smooth joined the early booted to boy ronnie either win or quickly lose for the food either jews or yeah it's either deuce abusive either different different dr altogether i did there yeah it's good new hit from liz oh i was so pumped tabrani out there when i met him i was like oh sweet night so like alpha ju on survivor because obviously i consider myself an alpha shoe i love to see more jewish people survivors makes me feel seen gene and then he's out so quickly we've got a couple of shots there's still some some jewish people left in the game so this is this is not a lost cause yet let's see if we can get some ethan's on these people yet and if not this season will say now if we can get to meet the designs of the future so anyway josh we've got one last song in the honorable or the top five this week first week back still rusty no you're great you're doing fantastic speaking of ronnie here is the duo of becky ann taylor and i can see that elaine she superfund dangerous ronnie ronnie the big plays in LA so yeah somebody i want to get rid of ronnie ronnie please on both her just because she likable clear winner so to me she's barely over five feet tall he wins a baseball the red sox she needs to win her job she thinks it's great she has ever lived in cincy that must be good at making her but she also thinks especially skinny in talladega this season stain count that could have been her ricky you want somebody ricky bobby out of jail and brian you took you overplayed your hand he is a weasel truck line rhyming we will much worse on go commando commanded no matter what that was dali nearly pardon ways one josh we don't normally do this i just want to squeeze in one more six not atop six just another honorable mention because because we have a special submission this week which also was a joe lean parody but it was not about ronnie body it was about a lane comes to us from the great becca devon's oh yes your your player in game elaine elaine did it so just for the record that was three we didn't start the fires wow to joe leans and to johnny cash hurts that's where we're at with the wand off these days you know we're getting multiple submissions of the same obscure songs things for the same obscure song parody competition gotta tell ya we're we're talking about cups that are full and mine is overflowing all right so the light i here's where we're at right now you can vote go to rob as a website dot com slash vote wanda you'll be able to vote for the next couple couple of days until the tabulates shuts it down i think it goes until friday rob is a website that com slash vote wanna will reveal the winner on next week's show and of course you can hear the entire soundcloud playlist thirty one songs and counting if you're a patron of rob has a podcast over at rob has a website dot com slash hatred and i hear that if you become a patron between now and october a you also will be able to get an r. h. AP pop socket i've got one on my phone and i have to say it is way easier to take a selfie and i rarely dropped my phone i've got a game of thrones pop socket on my phone and i gotta tell you it's a little out of vogue so i dunno case if you can hook up an h. APD pop soccer rock that i think we can hook you up and quo so until next week josh amer to keep your feet on the ground and keep your hands off the table we'll to casey kasem chasing the big belly laughs this week this is a good sign for things to come we're back we're back so everybody the long summer bummer away from the wanda will we back every week wiggle room at rob's website that comes when you get your one offs and okay josh for more of your coverage of course people can go over to teach dot com slash survivor for all things survivor yes that is correct also mister robot is about to return i'm going to have a lot of coverage of that over at the hollywood reporter walking dead is about to return going to have more coverage of that over at the hollywood reporter watchmen coming owning later this month more at the hollywood reporter and tons happening at post show recaps as well you're telling it there's so much happening every everything is a joy and a pleasure during a delight delights to be had and found everywhere you look you want if you want easy access to off that stuff on the twitter bots at round howard howard i will be tweeting out the links all the things that i've got going on and i hope that you are along for the journey i'm certainly thrilled to be back on the wanda journey the season alright well josh looking forward to getting back in touch next week to talk about episode number two but we still have a lot to do here on this this podcast that we're going to bring in jordan kayla and we're going to talk with julia zan vakili about everything that's going on we're just wanted to be on a podcast asked with julia but this is not the way that i thought it would happen where i can't talk to him yes assuming that in the future for sure but i'm sure that do you follow them messanger no i actually haven't and it seems like it's really up my alley so i would like to change that early so it is the new co host of our brand new messing zappa we'll talk about that with him as much as we get into the survivor social media and play this this week in survivor history that is all coming your way after a quick word about the new show coming to the CW which i think might be up your alley as well we're going to talk a little bit about bat woman and then we'll come back with this week in survivor history sundays on the CW brace this yourself superhero fans because the bat signal is on and you won't believe who swooping in to heed the call from the brilliant mind of greg berlanti and the executive producer of the superhero smash hit arrow the flash supergirl and legends of tomorrow comes the most anticipated new series he's to join the CW verse it's bat woman get ready to meet your new hero kate kane she's a survivor like me a fighter and all around bad ass who plays by her own rules and she's got the ink to prove it that woman's story begins three years after the mysterious disappearance of batman batman when gotham city is in desperate need of a new kind of hero soon after returning home to defend her city from the notoriously twisted alice in wonderland gang thank she discovers her cousin bruce wayne's mysterious layer and his unbelievable secret with the help of batmans trusted tech genius luke she decides to carry arianna batmans mission by becoming gotham city's new superhero vigilante from the suit to the gadgets to the fight scenes that will blow your mind this is the bat woman of the new generation don't miss the incredible series premiere of that woman sunday at eight seven central on the w or stream the next day on the free we see w stockham 'bout it's so we can build the smartest yeah thank you will from america we back this week in jeana survivor allowed people were wondering what are you going to do we're going to have exit interviews this season but back by popular demand this we kick in survivor let's welcome in a man who fans of robert akiva needed podcasts have already heard from a lot this week here he is is the host of the this week in survivor history quiz mr jordan kayla it's great to be back and we're going to log a couple more hours of podcasting in this week so it's been fun just for people who are like wait what what did jordan do so on robin akiva nita podcasts podcast where my co host akiva winokur and i spent a wheel of fan submitted ideas every single week that we had did a podcast this week there was an nigeria on the wheel which was called this week in robin akiva jordan keldysh company went back and listen to every podcast that akiva winokur maker and i had ever done in the last week of september and then made a fifty three question quiz we talked about it on a recent podcast in jordan how have the reviews been other reviews have been mixed i mean i think that the things that the thing is like the reviews that i've seen have been mostly positive because i think i think people are more likely to tack refusing if they liked the quiz the thing is though i think a lot of the a lot of them like kayla's but i don't i don't know about this quiz the thing is it was not my idea so i'm off the hook here they like they like me being on the podcast that they didn't necessarily like fifty-three trivia questions that we didn't get to all of them but we we got a lot of them on that podcast and i think fifty three is about the same number of survivor trivia questions i write in any particular season season of survivor so a lot of questions they're allowed to get through with with you and akiva mainly with the the old seinfeld podcast okay all right well let's welcome in our guest this week to talk about this week in survivor and then later on we'll take me on this week in survivor history quiz you've you've heard him on a lot of the big brother recaps throughout the year and now he is the new co host of our brand new mass singer go up please welcome and mr puja than vakili a rob hey dis dis these bigalow how's it going really excited to be here and talk survivor it's been a weird month for me i've talked a little bit of big brother i'm talking about the new phenomenon on that is the mass singer there's always nice to go back to the the normal which is survivor okay until you and leon boris are on your way masked singer singer week number one row hap- up is up in your rahat pups podcast feed rob has a website dot com the mask mask singer got out of the gate real hot versus survivor and this is this big rivalry going on right now between survivor and the mass singer as they are going head to head and so far advantage mask singer yeah you hate to see it i did you know someone who likes both shows i do not like that there are on at the same time because i would like to watch both live but it made me have to choose and i went with my old glove that is survivor and and they didn't need me because they did numbers yes week rob yes premiere of both shows and mass singer went up to about what eight million we got yeah the the they did real good and i know there's a lot of survivor fan this say hey the only massingir we care about is the lady that comes out and gives fifteen thousand dollars there's the people at the reunion that sihamoni yes she should be a judge on the mask thing she loves uh survivor to her credentials are two is what we've learned on the podcast is that the judge on the singer you have to not really know what you're talking about okay MCI it would be too all right so i would love to know as a math singer superfan and a longtime survivor superfan is there anything that you think that survivor could take from the mass singer right now which is red hot and bring to survivor yeah so if we're gonna break down all the moving parts that are the mass singer there's judges there's host we already have a host that's fine but it really boils down to their kind of going for the same demo here which is the family in two peas the children the family as a whole hole i think you've gotta look at colors and costumes so with survivor we're kind of in this place not where we're just sticking orange purple change it up maybe like a neon green green but a little bit of neon green in there it put hot pink in there or if you want to go the full mile we start bringing in or sonos for everybody liane has got our own persona for this week she was the floss you'll make someone kiwi make someone the hockey puck roll off the tyron leonidas no the the dance made famous by the backpack kid because spoiler alert one of the contestants ended up being a fortnight legend quote unquote and japan dan yes yeah so you know what i was thinking that maybe survivor could do what if you had the island of the titles but instead of robin sandra well what if you had like there's like ten disguised survivor legends and they're wearing a costume and then you have to pick one each week and then that person would help you and eventually the survivor ever legends that would be there would be unmasked so then i think i think that the chameleon might be cochran i think that that might be we start well anything so what do you think about that i let's let's pitch this immediately really i think this would be a slam dunk i like the idea that out of the tender someone that's called captain underpants yelich that's my guy he's a captain and you find that it's philip shepherd and it's it's a hot mess so yeah i think i think talking through these would be fun i think finding ten would be fine i think you'd find so many more this would be a slam dunk and no they would be good mentors to yeah i mean they might have a problem with the he the costumes but that's their problem ours jordan guns talk about your take on the premier what'd you think about week number one i mean i i liked it i like when we have the hour and a half from year we get to lrn lot more about most of these characters than we would if it were just an hour i think the only person who didn't get a confessional from what i saw was was dean and i'm sure we'll you know we'll we'll hear from him down the road at some point but i i enjoyed it i feel like we got a good sense of the dynamics on both tribes the the robert sanders stuff i i think i had a similar take taryn actually where the fire making was weak the tribal council robin zander in a box which i was not expecting expecting i did not know they were doing that going into the episode that was a lot of fun but i don't think it's necessary thing i do like about this to us as opposed to edge of extinction is like it doesn't change the game it adds advantages advantages and a couple of extra scenes with robin sandra but i don't think it's going to really be the kind of thing that changes the waist survivor works now jordan you are a noted boston raw superfan from your time's hanging out with rob in reno nevada nevada correct yes and i don't think ronnie barker was running i was at what did you make of ronnie baras claim that i was inebriated needed and asking people who their favorite survivor was did you you by that i mean look i i i don't know why he would make that up it's it was like this the rounded up reno that i can see said adam adam kline was they're not inclined was not in reno so it's possible i mean i can say that you did not ask me who my favorite survivor was his boston around what did you learn what when boston rob was mentoring you in reno i learned i don't try light you a two plus boston robin poker because they'll knock you out of a poker tournament and similar less than two when elizabeth learned yeah it was very similar i was actually thinking about that during the episode and the the other thing that he taught me as if if you see boston rob playing blackjack sit down at the table next to him because he will buy shots okay it's good less okay did you have any thoughts about the first week of the show that you i wanna talk about i really enjoyed it and it was it's been a good summer or survivor for me i've been keeping up with the international stuff after after age of extinction that coming in here i enjoyed the ninety minutes i liked there was no marooning i liked that we pretty much heard from everybody i feel like i know these people a lot better on the preseason coverage has been stellar as well so that really helped me as well i will say i also share the same sentiment about far making kind having a little boring but at the same time i'm looking at it with a silver lining if we're starting mac it'll get better right now the bar is low so i feel confident knowing that in the future hopefully it becomes a little more enticing little bit exciting but i do have to say the winner of boston rob and sandra there was there commentary on things i we had sassy rob a telling off elizabeth for making the wrong move and then we had the enjoy the the box commentary that was going on i'm excited at the c. that gives us any more to look at it and think about moving forward altogether throws well-packaged okay well speaking of the island uh of the idols format we have a question that got left on our voicemail this week rob his website voicemail anytime you wanna leave questions for the show and i didn't get to play it earlier in the week but i thought it was an interesting question so let's listen to this question this is jason from maryland hey rob it's jason for maryland is it possible we're seeing the beginning of the end with jeff probst hosting survivor forty seasons in i think jeff still do the show but maybe he likes doing it from the comfort comfort california as executive producer this season began jeff probst was not there to introduce the players to the season and now we've introduced robin sandra to help i'll tell the story and be part of the season without being players maybe they host tribal council later this season who knows maybe in a couple of seasons we get former challenge beasts or puzzle experts to help host the challenges witness be away if jeff probst is kind of getting tired hosting the show from location when this be a way to keep the show alive live keep bringing back former players that are not in a player role that can help host the show and keep show alive is this possible what do you think back what do you think about that do you think that the island of the idols serves as sort of a way to give jeff probst a few more days off in between times he does like so he really only asked to be there every third day in terms terms of to come to the challenge and i don't know if we're going to reward challenges but if there's no reward challenge i mean really you just need jeff on the immunity challenge slacks tribal council today yeah it's it's definitely lightening the load up a little and given that we know jeff is very the hands on with the show the more more we've progressed into these later seasons jeff is serving as a bigger person both on three offscreen this could be lighting riding the load a little bit however i do subscribe to the ideology that jeff really wanted the jeff probst talkshow workout it didn't this is jeff baby jeff is not going to abandon the baby i think going to stick around will he if this works out successfully will he commissioned bringing out other previous contestants to do other things and help out definitely i like the idea actually if robin sandra end up hosting a tribal one point this season that would be really fun to see but ultimately it's as baby i really don't think he's going to walk away from his baby always gonna hold this baby clothes and carl jordan do you feel like is this just sort of like that jeff have pro is like the veteran running back and then we're just gonna take him off the field for war a couple of series a game preplanned i mean i buy the idea yeah that you know jeff doesn't have as as much to do i guess when in assistant like this where you're really just having him at the tribal council and the challenges but i i don't buy the facts first of all i'd be completely against anybody besides jeff probst running tribal council unless it's survivor ever gets to appoint were jeff does is walk away from being the host and you have a new host but like jeff robes has been at every trial counsel in survivor history and i think it would just it would feel so inconsistent if boston robert sandra as much as i like both of them were to host tribal council i mean i remember we when they had like the DIY challenges during survivor boa people started talking about oh is the is jeff probst doing less on the show as it may be a sign that the show is gonna ender there's going to be a new host and were twenty seasons past that now so i i i think that jeff i i kind of it's hard for me to imagine someone else so soon survivor besides jeff but i i mean i do see look like he's hosting the challenge and he's hosting tribal council those are both on the same day and i liked the input that we had from robin sandra but i i don't think it's going to get to the point where someone else's hosting tribal council and i also don't love the idea in future seasons of bringing back a bunch of players to like host different aspects of the show i think it would it would get a little bit crazy if you have like i don't know poverty comes in and host the challenge and the malcolm comes in and then i don't know like alex prestige comes in and hosted challenge chris alli christie's right no i wasn't it wasn't the pronunciation with the suggestion jordan you're not a big brother guy but i can tell you they do it all the time on big brother i know they do and look at something that i guess they've done on the this show and i am not really used but survivors never done that and it's been thirty thirty nine seasons i think it would be a little bit weird star now they've done a lot of things that have been a little bit weird lately in a lot of people are talking about the breakout character elaine from episode number one how you feel about elaine really really digging elaine i liked what i had heard from her prior this season starting and it just picked up and continued going from air you know she's one of these more unique characters that being we've been getting you know you think about your lane you got a lot of rumor comparisons going on there that i've seen is just one of these unique especially when you come from a situation where there's quite a few people from the same region you get one from that region wanna pay attention to and then when they give you what you want and they give you hamady it gives you insight it gives you a story it all comes together and you want to root for them so i personally was really happy to see that lane still going to be here come up so to all right now elaine is polling at one hundred percent popularity right now that everybody is loving elaine but what i would like to do is for you predict the week that i don't think it's going to be the survivor facebook page age but twitter dot com is going to turn on a lane at some point is that is that the do you have that foresight of that's that's where this is going saying where that we end up getting so much elaine and while she's universally beloved today there will be a time when people are going to a be dragging the quote unquote casuals that are all in on a lane it isn't impossible especially especially it's one of those scenarios where if you live long enough you become the villain that's certainly possible we get overexposed to elaine right thing that can happen right yeah so she'd have to survive they get to that point for that to be the case but it could happen yeah because we all fall in love with the same people when the show starts but then eventually when elaine gene has eighty-seven confessionals by week seven then that's when the backlash is going to start to build up but for the meantime let's all all enjoy a lane while we're on the same page and i've got a couple of moments from a lane in the episode and elaine talked about how that everybody needs to remind mind her about her underwear before the challenge chandra miami put my drawers on if not we're just going to go commando journa- whose job was it in the tribe to remind elaine to put her drawers on well i mean i would have have to be either either tomor vince is sort of like her could sickly areas i gather gathering would or maybe it's gathering hiring you ask her sexy partners or maybe it's the women's alliance that's it's developed on her tribe and really elaine is is at the crux of the strive now she was able to not only able to stay in the game herself but she didn't lose lose vince you became one of our biggest allies so i think there are plenty of people everyone except for maybe aaron is responsible for her to wear drawers to challenge yeah maybe that was was one of ronnie's many jobs to remind the lane to wear her underwear to the child but then she went on to say something and there is a an obscenity that is going to be in this quote but of course survivor being a network TV show that that obscenity got censored out but puja yeah i really need some help here trying to gas what it is that elaine might have said that needed to be censored this is a right after she said about hey remind me to put my drawers on to go commando to the challenge in the framework i will be blank in the free world ooh play you played again that elaine said something that you can't say on tv in that blank what what on earth could it have been in the framework yeah i mean i it's gotta be some kind of worked for naked what is bad enough that it would have to be censor assert what could he say the free world is in like the world outside of survivor we got i don't even know what she means by the free world i i as you know and maybe we could crowdsource listeners of let's what what goes in this plane i'll be in the framework kentucky nick wilson because maybe it's like something from from that specific town like where would they they say blinked blinked in the free world and so maybe we gotta we gotta talk to nick wilson and see what's going on right right is it possible awesome that she said something along the lines of free balling in the free world is that possible new nazi-free bonding i don't no missed the wand off if that's what she said so hey tom tom petty sing singing don't is that could that could that fit i'm hearing in the framework kinda laugh whatever let's just annoying today i don't know i don't know what do we need the mass singer for that we have the the bleep confessionals from lane this this is all we need on survivor we're having a fun time to the one thing massingir has that no one's chanting take it off so we're okay here you mhm wouldn't hang elaine put your drawers on the challenge yeah yes okay so also elaine talked about coup and mustard yellow reddish what's what's this guy that you put down whatever you want coconut must be george kumon guy i do i actually have a big thing of human in in my kitchen i sprayed on like does chicken i i put it on a lot of what are you spray it on things which spray spreads spread these say spray puja yeah i don't know maybe he's like drinking the clam juice right it's not an aerosol right oh spring bullet on on my on my nachos i put on anything and anything savory great great spice spice yeah i don't think we have any common lane there's a cumulus saying wrong cumana uh-huh so i'm saying how elaine said human is like a yellow register what's that you put food take down whatever you want coconut so i think who who who was that was describing what cumin was because she said it was radish i think she she was thinking of rica because immunise more like bauge okay all right could that would that work for the tribe callers of paprika versus kumon africa read an account of cumin or cumin i always say rhymes with human nevada people say i people tell me i said the word human run because i don't towns the eight so that's jordan i was thinking of you as i was going back on i was watching the episode and i know you're here's such a big NFL guy and so there did you catch the NFL talk in this episode i did remind me though they were i did catch i don't remember again unlike aguilar so going back to at the height height of you know there was some not so fun stuff going on this episode where there was some talk about how kelly was uncomfortable well with the dan wanted to put his head on her leg and molly in the midst of all this was talking some football specifically new york giant football here's molly oh my god twelve giants came back to meet the patriots as a little taken back by dan at first now is it possible the ball molly with maybe not not talking about dan speedo in this episode but actually was talking talking about how she's uncomfortable with danny dimes is that possible is that the daniel maybe she's talking about what you're talking about diet daniel jones is she are they calling him danny times now yeah yeah i have not heard that nickname for him i look i'm a jets guy as you know but no i don't think she was talking about about daniel now this was before the season started and is it possible i mean listen listen to this quoting oh oh my god twelve the giants game patriots as a little taken back by dan at first she didn't think that he should have and drafted at six dan and the she was definitely taken aback but now i think she probably has come around on on daniel jones i mean if she's a giants fan valley he's he's look good he could he could run he can move outside of the pocket maybe before going on survivor she listened to the the thirty two fans draft recap i did with kiva in chester mister we're sort of railed on daniel jones but he's proven yeah molly molly by men who by the way i don't know is is this a hot take does she have the same in haircut as shambo i don't think she has the same haircut go back look again i think they think you're you're off on that one night thanks but some sort of similarity it's like the guy a similar color similar curling this there was one confessional where it's just like up in its reminded me a sham i don't know i don't think i think you're on an island with without one but speaking of people that are similar puja julia i wanna play this was a moment from early in the episode where we see elizabeth was was talking talking with missy and she felt right away like they they had bond and she she told missy about this piano yeah i play the flute you were talking with somebody and it sits you why why are we the same person would you not be incredibly freaked out yeah especially when you're taking two opposite things it's like oh my god why are we saying person i made nachos of human last night word we're here we're good yeah you're just trying to bond with me i would go with it doesn't seem like you'll just glum onto anything wouldn't why are we the same person oh my god that would freak me out that's really jumping in there air for elizabeth i guess it worked that we didn't we didn't see missy say anything bad about elizabeth elizabeth also she went out out to the island of the idols she was the first person to do that and jordan she was welcomed in to the island of the isles by hi rob and sandra and rob invited her to go visit a specific place on the island of the idols thome on up into the snuggle tell you what's going on what is snug jordan's not it's the snug is a i guess it's like to to intersecting wooden benches between two giant heads of robin zander does not have you ever been to a snug not that i'm aware of maybe i wasn't told i did i've never gone to a snow willingly that i know of yeah that's why you you free balls there's there's no snuck accents if it's too snug it's if you wanna go go commando if eh if your drawers to snug go commando advocates safest way to say that that's actually what i remember yes s. snug with two gs is when something is chill relaxed and cool derived from snug as in the snug of a pub which is a small secluded included side room of a power bar were small group of friends can chill out getting drunk in a more private surrounding yeah okay all right maybe i should go change the name of the podcast studio to the snug snug alive yeah i will hold on let me let me try it out to see maybe maybe maybe this maybe this'll work got credit to robin sandra live from my snug it's rob has a podcast and now here's the guy who's never putting any kumon on anything anything now i don't know i don't have to say the same ring to it it would be like someone else listening tribe accounts beginning it needs to be yeah coming to you live from my apartment i think the point i started inviting people up to my snug i think we're getting a lot of like i'm i'm a germaphobe i really am not comfortable with going up to rob snug snug for like a week five let's let's get out of this let's let's let's get out of this let's get into talking about social media from this week and to do that let's welcome in for the first time this season the great mr jacob sager weinstein tweets daily tweet saving he'd like a welder i built the giant hand elder tweets the original composer of the tweets baby tweets jingle so jacob is paying homage to the original composer of the tweets baby tweet song jordan let me start with at the mri bird missy bird she tweeted don't move don't breathe going notice for as long as possible just say dope allot they will all forget about you my mri i dunno she's gone unnoticed i did notice ah her in this episode and i think that she she is definitely one to watch i think she's one that he was one of the more vocal people in that at women's alliance on on the lyra tribe tribe so yeah i mean i think that she had a fantastic yeah we should these ghoulish tried to ride ride on mris coat-tails with this decently dope catchphrase i think so i think this is going to be the season of dece so it'll be a decent shout for these actually consider doing this and i wanna i want it the best actually a name on you that SO i changed my twitter name a couple of times it has been d school wish it's actually really just been destabilised for details what if i changed it d- s- dope leash still i love it and as the kids would say i am deceased yeah some some drip with some some dystopia where around again by absolutely so must be so mad when they see no that d- these dope ish you sto- push DC school ish but rounder these devilish okay i you are in the weeds okay all right let's go kentucky whig nick wilson the twitter twitter handle ky. underscore nick wilson that he says i'd say dan has a rather a hands on approach to the game aim heo there you go speaking of inappropriate dr mike doctor after my said BTW at boston rob at sandra dee twine live tribal commentary was great they needed popcorn bird great idea at jimmy fallon next time it should be you should jimmy fallon be in the booth i think you've you hit the nail on the head this past week that he wouldn't be able to hold the smallest thing a mosquito bite commie that's funny that's alan work well it would be easier here to get the entire roots band in their box and not give up the gag dan just jimmy fallon in there i would be very okay with the roots being their next season yes but georgia eight it does beg that almost any celebrity it seems like they could just run into jeff probst and get their ideas into the show it seems like almost like if you are of a certain stature sure if you pitch jeff probst seemingly almost any idea it has a good chance to get into the show i mean we've had the tyler perry idol we've now had the the jimmy jimmy fallon that's the snug maybe that boxes also a snug also tarry was given jeff probst bunch of ideas hey don't have you don't have any clothes it it seemed like mike white todd told judge jeff hey don't have redemption island in san juan del sur so i think it's probably another example or two that we can come up with it seems like that a lot of celebrities have a lot of impact on jeff thinking so maybe the person that that that recommended lauren beck to survive must have been a celebrity and now i'm curious to know who it was yeah do you think that the idea here is to maybe get more famous people watching survivor or is that potentially words we have to get all the famous people to stop watching survivor because i'm sitting here you're thinking how did these people get their suggestions and meanwhile we know nick offerman and his wife mcmullan fans why haven't they gotten a suggestion and because i think i think they would give us suggestions that we'd be here for we don't know that though to be fair we don't know what suggestions nick offerman might have that's true i just love nicole from i would follow him into the death like i bet nicole from in really likes final four fire making challenge and my my want into fighting firing challenge at every single eviction yeah i didn't think of his very nature side ron swanson is really into the outdoorsy nature the survivalist element of the show person that we get to pitch jeff some ideas adam scott would definitely go with the more heavy strategy very intense elaborate ideas there so so maybe if those to collaborate together they can find a healthy medium to then pitch and have a collaborative process okay we have abby maria korea was tweeting about the premier and the fun thing here is that abby maria refers to elaine on twitter as elena she says ooh i love elaine is gut instinct the factory worker check always listen to your soul is what i say i'm j- i'm back just for this swatch tribal effing love elaine vulnerability i wanted to win this season i got my pick i'm crying with you girl she loves elena she the one that cried no she her boyfriend cried a lot on big brother would you rather have seen and the abrupt who really didn't get a welcome wagon into the big brother than did you yeah time at the at the live show that was a lot refund okay yeah that is not the reality elena the lady that's on on survivor oh elaine elaine is great i mean she she had a great time slain is great or elaine is great elaine that is on this season of survivor is great and she i'm so happy that she was not the first one yeah what would it take for a lane from survivor to end up on ex on the beach let's see you might have to get a showman going here with big hockey tom i'm going to be there that could be moved here eventually i i guess the move for elena on reality TV there's just like the the biggest guy on the tribe on again off again yeah we'll all right stephen fish back tell me if this is a mail it in move puja stephen fishbach said i'm in the middle of a move so i wasn't able to right a survivor blog tonight but fishy for elaine yeah definitely need the new new limitations with the character if you could have done this with the old one forty forty nailed it okay why no blogs you recording the paraphrase i believe he's moving he's got a lot going on and he's like on so looking forward to finally get together with steven on wednesday when the survivor know it alls are reunited wednesday night after the episode of charene the charene says survivor curses our cars extra votes dan's what do you think of that off the top of my head can't down so far it's looking looking no and then if you add orange tribe in there or as well as doing we're hitting hitting a complete package yeah the premier yeah i thought she was going to say poker players serena also dabbles she's like a spiring poker hokey player that she was at the last straw running brno that i was at and she had no knew nothing about poker and then the last i heard she's like like become like a has just like studied it i mean she's insanely smart and she has just learned poker and now is like because just completely engrossed in it and i think star she tweeted that she's going to be at the next one that they're going to do so serene is going to be out there for that terry dietz this is interesting okay so terry d two is not a big tweeter of the show now that he came on the social media segment during season thirty nine thirty seven during gay definitely and so two tweets from terry deeds he said did you see the premiere of survivor thirty nine last night really liked in having robin sandra doing the color commentary tribal with love to see shane and karen up in the booth a detroit wants people to guess land yeah so they've it's there and he's as he has a follow up tweet he's okay my vote is to have rob sea fish do play by play of shane in in korean watching this show kinda like the talking debt it would larry est creating a whole yeah so so the show i'm attached commentary of a commentary yes so the show is yes that's right right the survivor know it alls are back stephen while shane korean really late into the contestants and especially jeff probst this week can you can you believe it really they re they really would they went all in they did not hold back at all like oh yeah listen must-listen podcasting right there stephen so what did you think well well i already tweeted out that i gave the fishy to career in this week she really has yet to a couple of jabs thought they were real real strong paraphrase a tweet okay alright couple of a couple more tweets this week we have some conversations nations boston rob who's newly on instagram even boston rob we thought taryn the last holdout on instagram turns out it was boston rob job he just jumped on there you can follow boston rob on instagram but this was on twitter he said that was fun at survivors CBS can't wait till next week what did you guys think here comes ethan's on says i hope you win my favorite storyline of this entire season is going to be everyone holding out on the ones that are really worried that this is still going to happen regardless of the fact that yeah they're that they're not coming i'm not i'm starting to feel like that it's it's not gonna happen i was i was a hold out throughout the pre even what you know mike was swearing up and down and he's like guys trust me i talked to them they said they're not unlike yea i'm i i'm i'm coming around around i don't think they're gonna come into the game okay andrea bulky and other big elaine stand that andrea says if elaine gets voted that we riot and then here comes richard hatch maybe the first person on the anti elaine train he says gosh you guys guys i think your love for a lane is wildly misplaced love her her story her personality all you want when you encounter her on mainstream but she he appears to me to have far too little control of our emotions to be loved as fiber player i'm just saying can we just have fun richard of course that's what i'm trying to do i have a ton of fun homing in on rare good game skills so hatch coming for a lane already puja yeah yeah and if anyone ends up joining the anti lynn club with richard that will be called the down the hatch alliance is down the has not the lost watch podcast okay and then i got one more one more condo involving of somebody from this sees his in dr mike as he poses a question he says question if elizabeth had told the tribe that islands of the idols had thirty foot high statues of sandra and rob and that she had to battle rob in the fire making challenge would anybody anybody believe her hashtag survivor thirty nine and sanders he has twine at sandra twine says twenty four feet not thirty and dr mike says just saw that men always exaggerate about size they go classic dr mike let's get your microphone okay let's see i don't think anyone thought elizabeth design by the way it's too it's too big able riley who would lie about that it would be insane who yeah what do you make of elizabeth's lie the lie was not great i do think that just hitting them with what had happened would have been fine although it would have either been they believed her or they thought she went insane over there and the whole violin flute thing would become a a lot more clear to missy right off the same person taking me out a lot a lot of people out there did listen since you i went out and maybe thought she had like a jesuit fever dream maybe that's a lot of that going around out there out in fiji okay all right before we get to these dope fishes quiz for this week when i say very different i said l. l. i. s. h. dope leash that makes more such weekly changing skip allen my notes okay all right let me take a moment and thank our sponsor before this episode of the podcast this week in survivor history and that our friends over at purple mattress survivor fans and they know purple is the best they know that a purple mattress is going to be superior to any of the other color mattresses that you want and they know how important it is to have a a great night's sleep not something that i know too much about it having some small kids here waking me up constantly over purple mattress they know how important the quality of sleep is and it could affect your day something that is going to know about tomorrow after record recording this podcast late into the night but if you had the purple mattress i'm telling you it would be different day because you're gonna feel yeah well rested even if you don't get as much sleep is definitely something i need to subscribe just someone who wakes up at six thirty in the morning bagel the for the city you think this'll be a welcome change in my house it'd be a welcome change because the purple mattress was developed by two brothers who were making in cushioning technology for thirty years and things like a medical beds and wheelchairs y- georgia boston rob and sandra have on the snug yeah i think i think they get is i think about the the the snag they were like we need our purple mattress at it's not a snug without a purple mattress the purple mattress is gonna feel different than anything you've ever experienced because it uses this brand new material that was developed by an actual rocket scientists sound like the memory foam that you're used to the purple mattress feels unique because it's both firm and soft at the same time so it keeps everything supported while still feeling comfortable plus it's breathable so it sleeps cool it ends up giving you this zero gravity nobody likes feel so it works in any sleeping position one hundred nights risk free trial if you're not fully satisfied you could return your mattress for a full refund back by a ten year warranty free shipping and free returns and free in-home setup and they'll take the old mattress out to you're gonna love purple and right now our listeners will get a free purple pillow with the purchase of a mattress in addition to the free great gifts they've got site-wide just text the word robbed two eight four eight the only way to get the free pillow is to text rob don't take my phone number text the word rob two eight four eight eight eight that's our OB not rob two bs are OB two eight four eight message and data rates may apply and with that let's jump into the quiz right jordan are you ready ah yes yes dope leash with the first three questions about rob you yes okay all right none of these are the leftover questions from the this weekend robin akiva no the first category is i can't believe just gesture but the rest of them are normal survivor questions ashton's from this week actually from now that we're that were releasing the podcast a little bit later in the week with the with the wiggle room it's actually from last week in survivor history but still called the will that's gone by the week the week though was that's fine dude yeah okay all right jim jordan do you can you quickly for our new listeners who just maybe this is their first survivor season with us could you set up the rules for the this week in survivor survivor history cueva de and bear in mind pooh has to work at six thirty appeal i'll i'll be done before before early summer we're gonna no there there are four multiple choice questions each one has a category name that you will choose and will each answer two of these multiple choice questions during the game if you choose to not hear the multiple choice options and you are correct you gain two points if you go for two and a rob you give your opponent and chance to to steal point they'll also not here the multiple choice options if you do hear the multiple choice you will get one point if you're right and if you only go for wonder opponent can't steal then we'll go to a final rounds bounds called the death match in which both of you will be allowed to to earn points so is that enough for for the first episode of survivor history but yes CBS got it ready to go matters we just played before he knows he knows what's going on did you beat robert did rob the the last time i believe we went to tiebreaker and i lost a going for redemption redemption is this is your second or third time playing the quiz believe this is the second time so too okay all right all right so so are four categories today we have luxury items love the drake hid napped and balloons and puja as the guest you get to choose the first category all all right let let's see he sings from i'm from canada let's go with the drake okay love the drake will go into survivor pearl islands to quit or not to quit from on september twenty fifth two thousand three sixteen years ago last wednesday after winning the reward challenge the drake try a sent one contestant to raid the morgan camp this person took tarp harp damaging the a shelter in the process and angering the morgans who was this mystery raider ooh this going to be a good one tony brown nazi he's not not that big raider so i'm gonna go with knocking to ask for a multiple choice here it's gonna take my shot when opportunity i'm sitting here with sir rob and i'm going to face off with them go for the win i'm gonna go with sandra lockin it sandra lachmann gone for two and and you are correct sandra who is now back as adviser on the season was the person who who who got to go to the morgan camp and still there stop right so you get two points good way to start the season is up two zero rob you have luxury items kidnapped and ruined take the three categories left i will go with marooned okay so we didn't have a marooning on on this season isn't of spider but when we went to the survivor cambodia the episode is called second chance from september twenty third two thousand fifteen four years ago last monday who one extra rice for they're tried by being the first player to swim from the original marooning boat to a second boat i think i know so the answer by let me hear it let me hear the choices okay so going for taking taking this safer what what would boston rob say about here the options here trust you can't let me get a two zero lead on you you can't win if you get down to zero and anke busting around that was good advice was a joe angouleme be spencer bledsoe's so see woo de stephen back i think it was woo woo your the point there yes woo woo helping jobs mazing wasn't going to be one of the choices as joey maniac w mason clear clear declared choice and stephen fish back you may think of it as the answer but he did win a a swimming race to win advantage later in the season so not really out of the question yeah you have a two to one lead we had hat luxury items and kidnapped as their two remaining categories let's go with the kidnap they said we're gonna go to survive china the episode is my mom going to kill me september twenty seven th two thousand seven twelve years ago last friday jaime dugan was the first person kidnapped by the opposite tribe survivor china to whom did she give the idol clue during her time at the fail on campus of this going to be tough i'll go with multiple for churches to stay safe okay stan save trying to extend your lead over rob was at a aims clement be todd herzog sierran reese burger de leslie he's the one and let's go with with the score was leslie leslie is correct good job you got a point there you have read a one lead yeah i he's he's she gave the the cluedo lesley i think she sort of sussed out that may be she was on the outs in her intertribal leslie ended up sharing mclean with with todd i felt like a bomb uh religious bond also yes i think that was that was part of it as well but todd actually let leslie thought sharing the clue todd may be bond them as well but really really tied gave a confessional where he said it might be a good idea now to vote her out because she has that information so we you take three one lead a rob you can either you could get close i hear you could potentially tie it up here if you go for two and get it right i we're going to luxury items we're gonna go to survivor thailand which has gotten a lot of coverage over the the offseason with taber the episode is the great divide from september twenty six two thousand to seventeen years ago last thursday which contestant brought a golf club is is a luxury item that is try played with on the beach okay this did not come up on talking with deeper by i do believe the the answer is mr clay and brochures last name to jordan i don't wanna get the question wrong by getting last name wrong with clay clay yeah his last name is actually decent now it is yeah joining chaos so it we have a we have a three three game into the final round yeah clay clay jordan bras bras golf club and they had some fun with that out there good job we're going to go to the the final round here to death matsch unfortunately for ronnie ronnie barda he came the first one out of survivor island of the idols last week after receiving seven votes at tribal council i have compiled a list of various i boots you must tell me if the person voted out either received seven or more votes at their only tribal council or less than seven votes so there's two absence ers either seven or more or less than a little bit tough it's a tough game but and as we as we always do here wolf if you are incorrect you will not answer any more during the game must be still tied after after four ah answers are given in total by the two of you so let's let's start here with puja you're you're the guest choose a number and this will just decide the order of the game gain choose a number between one and eight i always t- mambo so i'm gonna go number five to number five one two three okay so we're gonna go to survivor survivor san juan del sur nadia that was the first person voted out i did you receive seven or more votes or did she receive less than seven votes ninety s k how many people were on the okay so we're going to nine ten people the only other person like number that's when that's where farm guy sixty-nine ended up making a play there and she you know what i'm gonna go with over it was more it was more says actually less than seven it was a five to three to one vote which adele received three votes and if you remember josh canfield actually vote baylor alert right and he threw a vote towards baylor with remember at the time none of us thought made made all that much sense because it seems like he was he was aligned with her also yeah that was a tribal council where you know josh potential or nadia gotten hot water when she was referring to josh is one of the girls which of course he was not not a fan of so yet not not you went there with only only five votes though so put your interest in rob if it's one out of you are correct on this one rob you win the game and we're going to go uh versus genetics a- gen x. it's our rachel rachel we put we put puja the bed rachel more than more than seven and and i am going to say if i'm wrong game just go against all right so nothing nothing to lose here then i'm going to say that she did not take the over this was actually a crazy vote so it was a five to three to one to one voter CC got three votes even and sunday sunday you scott one vote each so it was less than seven did not get to the the full barda number of of seven votes there so you were incorrect puja you're back in the game and and i am going to chicken survivor china am watched the swanee hunt oh oh say dan after this you know someone who dabbled in the gambling i'm in i'm to stop on my head and not just repeat what i just did that at the same time i wanna say this hit me it's going to be over over let's go with over over so it was a five to two to one vote i have seen sahra late late SEM bizarre received two votes and PG got got a vote there actually was that that was PG received ashley's his vote so it was less than seven so you're in trouble again and rob we're gonna go to one of my favorite seasons survivor guatemala and we have jim lynch jim lynch i mean he broke his arm i think that even those only eight people in the tribe i think right it wasn't nine i dunno i guess they they all voted for him i mean his his arm was dislocated so it was a nine person tribe jim lynch voted for margaret but he was the only only one for margaret's rob you wreck at a point and you win the quiz for two three congratulations you shouldn't have played that was the lesson and the only way the only way to win this week was to not play the game yeah i'll be looking at my wounds on this one rob but i don't regret it i had had fun and if this means that i have to wait another time to come back from redemption ark we'll see you then it took begging z. what was it three times to even though her first time she probably i think we're supposed to win but i made a scoring error hurt officially when it's a girl three or four times you'll you'll you'll do at some point i have a lot of confidence in you have some more questions about akiva guys on i think i bridge puja is never going to talk to us again if we do akiva trivia right now feel like i knowing akiva it's best if i don't answer these because then he might not not let me back on at some point so let's let's pretend that we didn't do it okay all right so of course people can catch hugh now all on the mask singer wrap up with liana boris for people who are not masked singer watchers chris can you just give a quick pitch of why people might want to check it out on their streaming services or hulu or whatever so they can listen to the podcast i'm never going to advocate to tune in life because it's against survivor and we're all here for survivor but if you have any spare time it's a fun show oh it's very low stakes there are singers it's hidden identities there's elaborate costumes are clues horrible guesses from judges there's people chanting stuff like egg and making weird hand movements you'll hear people saying egg egg egg random stuff like that we have people that are listening to the pockets that aren't even watching because we just ended up all this we break them down we give our own suggestions of who could be who am i have put a wild guess out there that i think steve is on the season season which people think i'm insane for is just a lot of fun it's just you know making guesses running with them and then talking about nonsensical things so it's just that you know it's it's it's the lightweight of content you'd be taking it yeah for basis it's a great i call it a folding laundry show you can just have have it on you don't you don't need to be giving it your undivided attention something major is not going to happen that you're gonna miss if you have to leave the room for a second yeah no definitely not be fine check out the podcast probably funds listen to you and if you don't watch the show yeah no we we just we talk about nonsense we really do we talk about the show but then we also get on tangents here and they're like specifically leon asked me if uh anyone likes jealous who do either of you enjoy eating jello i don't think anybody enjoys eating jello i think it's a thing saying that in front of you than and there's nothing else that it's like you know you're in a hospital bed or something like that in a cafeteria the here's the desert it's jello but i don't think anybody actively seeks out jello i don't think it's not balut but it's also not not it's not like something yeah yeah it's not it's not disgusting but it's not anything that you crave and i think the more you know about it the less you want it yeah i definitely i agree so that's just a little bit of like that and all the other things that the show brings in and leona is always fun to talk to so it's it's a good combination of a lot of things coming coming out to the table on this odd cast okay do you feel like you guys have a reasonable guess who most of the mass singers are no so we have to right now that we're feeling pretty strongly about one that liana made a case for and then one that i've made a case for that we subscribe to all the other ones are little bit we need more clues or i'm going to plead insanity on the one so we'll see we'll see where it goes all right of of course you could follow at who is them jordan kayla ish bad ass in the saddle here jordan what else is going on i'm with you anything fake survivor seasons fake survivor seasons i'm a i'm a cross country coach now which is interesting because i was never really a much much of a runner but i'm having a good time with that i am looking forward to the survivor know it alls livestock evernote also coming up in new york which which i'm really excited about paprika i i i have a question for you last time around your do you remember who i can't say i remember the answer to this question but who was the first survivor followed on twitter i know i asked you last time yeah i i do we got caught with a poor pick probably only russell no who is it her name of aids me now from survivor philippines r. c. r. z. a. julia we see we and if anybody is you know keeping the the this week in survivor history wicky we know that answer but who is the most recent survivor were you followed on twitter most recent internet just US for county US shit right most recent US survivor contestant yes i wanna say might have been from last season oh you know what i totally know who it is is it victoria rob ding the bell okay all right follow at jordan kayla ish on social media and you could check during the most recent robin akiva need a podcast us as well for even more if you listen to this as a boy i'd love to hear more jordan kayla asking questions to people go check out the latest robin akiva a new podcast for that jordan you in a cold sweat yet about the yankees postseason i am i am very very excited i'm anticipating this i mean it's really like world series or bust at this point and but i am a little bit nervous about some some things with the pitching staff but i think it's strong team i think we we could pull it out there's no reason we shouldn't be able to so i'm nervous but i'm also excited jordan i i was gonna i was going to be mean i was going to guarantee a yankee world series win we'll see i won't do that for today can we get maybe not i mean nicole davis hasn't had my best luck with maybe i shouldn't have her but maybe like nicole saddam we'll ask her to pick who's gonna win the series between the yankees and the washington senators and and see what she says the careless versus alex gesture battle yankees twins okay all right so jordan thank you so much artwork we'll talk to you again next week of course big thanks to the patrons of araba has podcasts we told you earlier in this show that you guys will have access access to the entire one-off soundcloud for the week even things that did not make the show to hear that and much more including looting was gonna send you a pop socket when you become a patron before october eighth i think what do you think's going to last longer the special or the the yankees postseason jordan he's supposed okay all right so head over to rob has website at com slash patron to find out

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A Decade Ends: From New Zealand to King Island

Fore Play

1:25:43 hr | 1 year ago

A Decade Ends: From New Zealand to King Island

"I would look at Boston. We'll Tom and look at this stuff that they pose to some of. It's like absolutely stupid. Such quite quite amusing and stuff like that. That is what we need to get checked again at goal. Nice to be your boys. Congratulations on all that. You're doing as mediocre as it is very much thinking about getting so I don't get that people together. Thank you frank dump butter knife my wed.. The newer younger Hitler Barstool Sports Tigers had the three factor one fusion we welcome in from barstools sport rigs and Trent guys welcome to the show for play sports. Hello everyone this is rigs and and I'm here to tell you a story. I'm going to tell you a story on this show about traversing the world about being pretty much an entire world away in playing some of the most host exotic seventy most desirable. Some of the most unimaginable golf. That you could possibly play with people that you never ever thought you would meet how it happened how I put it all together what it was like. What does experiences will mean to me forever ever but I? I have to acknowledge the fact that today is Tuesday December thirty first two thousand nineteen that means very simply. This is the last day a of the decade now that causes You perhaps to sit back and reflect and it's really done the same for me and for my podcast hosts I know as well well And really what I want to reflect real quick because this will be the last podcast that we do in this entire decade. This will be the final podcast. We do yes. We will be back on Thursday we will have the entire crew. It'll be myself frankie. Trent I think He has to do is realize stuff real jobs stuff. I'm not sure they'll get at least three three or four. Perhaps all four but this is the very last show that we'll do the entire decade and that led me to sit back. Think a little bit about this entire thing about this this job. This thing that we get to do and a lot of you. When we post instagram's stories tweets whatever? It is a lot of you respond to them and you kind of say. Hey Fuck you rigs fuck you man. I'm in my cube. I'm sitting here doing my thing and you guys are out there playing the best golf courses in the world. You all stink at golf yet. You're filming yourself playing golf. You're talking about Gov your fist pumping tiger woods inside the robes. You're challenging justice. Thomas and Zander's Shafi lefty playing golf of bubba Watson in his caddy had Scott in sitting down with him for an hour afterwards. How did this possibly come to be? What is what is going on here? And so it's pretty crazy things that almost three years years ago now. Trent and myself started this show foreplay myself. I was working tech sales as making fifty eighty cool calls a day. Tread Daddy was a security guard. Hold down the fort in Iowa in Iowa Frankie Borelli was he's refusing to give people free water at Borelli's restaurant out. On Long Island. Port Lurch was still is slinging software so lurch you know not not not a tons changed day today but to think now I mean. It's almost three years later that we started the show that we get to do what we do that. A lot of you you say you know. Your job is preposterous. Your job is ridiculous. Your job is so great really. The number one word I would say it's unimaginable. Fucking job is unimaginable logical That I would say it's unimaginable is because this job doesn't exist shop shouldn't exist again. We go his awesome cough courses. We could sit down down for three hours a week. Four hours a week and we get to just talk about golf talk about whatever the Hell we wanNA talk about sort of related to golf off. Sometimes you're talking about hockey Movies who knows what we talk about it but most so you talk about golf. From the fact that we get to be paid to do that it is unimaginable. It's an unimaginable job and none of that none of everything that I have described. Thus far would be even close to possible if it weren't for every single one of you listening out there right now every time you go out of your way to download the podcast to fire that podcast up to listen for. I think it's at least thirty seconds or a minute. It five minutes or whatever the hell it is for it to count as a download and listen for us every time you scroll through twitter Gaudy away on Youtube to fire up our page and watch one of our new videos every time you click on one of our blog and read about what we've had to say on whatever the hell is going on in the world of golf or anything else every every single one of you. That's done that and every time you've done it it has allowed us to do this. Unimaginable job that we get to do so. I would like to start the show with a massive massive. Thank you to every single one of you any goes beyond that it's not just subscribing show and having automatically downloaded to your phone you guys by merged you guys go out of your way at events that come up and say hi to us. Not a single minute goes by for any of the form of where we are not not incredibly grateful where we lose perspective because what we get to do is ridiculous it is unimaginable and none of that would be even close to reality would have been able to create this fake ridiculous preposterous unimaginable gig. If you guys didn't actually enjoy it if you guys didn't participate you guys get involved on twitter on instagram. The comments even when you roast us that all helps man all that is a part of it it it keeps the conversation going. It makes what we do. Relevant allows us to grow and continue to do what we do so now that the deck decade has come due to an end before we jump right into twenty twenty. I just WANNA give a very serious very heartfelt. Thank you to every single one of you. You guys rock. You're the best emerge going to keep doing a bigger and better. Also we've got new video out. There are team worked on a kind of highlighting the entire year. Wrap it up into a few minutes. What's that might Palach? It a little bit realize how crazy this year has been so big. Thank you from us to all of you in. Please continue lessons that we can continue to live this life. It's it's awesome okay. I next one jump into a story I'm going to tell a story And that's the way really begins about a month and a half or two months ago now and it begins with the Australia trip in general now a little peek behind the curtain at Barstool. Sports we the foreplay crew in order to the have these types of trips and we've done a bunch of this year And it kind of started. I guess I would say our our trip started with bethpage black. Now it's not really necessarily really a huge trip. It's an hour drive. Or whatever from Manhattan we work in Manhattan but the four of us three of us. I guess that we plus you factor jake production reduction squad. That week it was the four of us were out of the office from you. Know Sunday night until Eight days later The Monday after the PGA Championship and for us. We do a lot of different ship. Frankie and I we do the four to six. PM Radio Show on the host Frank. He's a producer. Frankie does everything pretty much behind the scenes of Dave's life and he's trying to transition but he's been doing that for three or four years now. Trent Daddy is all kinds of involved with With the chicks he goes on there all the time and talks about batteries on the snapchat. Show he logs nonstop. So there's a lot of things that we do so in order for us to you know get permission get kind of the approval of Barstool to be completely out of the office and only focused on what's going on at one single golf tournament that week. You know we got to have a pretty good pitch and when you go out there we need to produce so that Barstool can look at the numbers the accident or whatever you WanNa call the data break it down and go okay This worth it for these guys to be out for the entire week in the field doing their thing and so the PGA championship at Bethpage. Black was massive for us us this year. We got all kinds of footage. We got millions and millions of views musters bumping in to Brian de Shambo to us the rating. The players entrances as they came in duff. Daddy like logging along really slowly kisses rolling with his hat. He looked like he'd never been outside of like temperature. That's ever been above sixty five degrees in his entire life. We had video of tiger coming in. We had the Bryson Shamba when Frankie borelli chipping lesson on on the driving range at bethpage black during a major championship. We had seth Wa. WHO's the president of the? Pj America's Weird Laghouat. They were able to get all these cool moments and when we came back it was very clear. Okay sending these guys out there actually works they get shit. We went to pebble beach three weeks a month later. Whatever it was in the Monday that we're at Pebble beach we get the video with tiger woods becomes over he chats People been breaking down that video. Like it's the fucking JFK assassination for the last six months or however long. It's been since that happened from where you guys station to us. Just waving at them to Trent and Frankie stealing each other's basketball line at the end to tap him on the on the on the shoulder on the arm like a crazy person and just saying hey congrats on the masters in the Tap Me Bag. No and how about that should hey happy potato tiger woods. He's forty four years old but the public beach trip We we we got video ran into Justin Thomas We had Matthew Patrick. His caddy pulled Frankie over so again we kind of proved. Hey we're in the field. Were out of the Office for an entire week even longer longer. We're GONNA fly all the way to each house at Pebble beach all this so again. I don't want to wherever way too much behind the scenes stuff but doing these trips There's a little but of opportunity cost in us not doing other things in only solely focused on this plus the fact that some of these trips can be expensive as shit. Pablo was very expensive pensive. We went and did the North Carolina trip now end. Those videos are gonNA come on. You guys asked that all time I want folks folks understand that our producers Jake who's been with us for over a year now every single podcast. That goes out every a clip. That goes out promoting those podcasts. Every video that we shoot the rigs verse videos that go out. The videos from encores from the President's Cup to the more highly produced videos again the reverse videos The longer form videos the eighteen hole round the news those are shot and produced by right. Now are one guy so we want these to be very highly produced. They're going to take time. They'RE GONNA take a couple of months they're going to be really really cool. You're in a lot of YOU'RE GONNA see us hitting horrible shots and a couple amazing shots mixed in with phenomenal drone work Really Cool Camerawork B roll etc.. It's GONNA be Great. You're going to like it but on the horizon was the president's cup. Presidents Cup is down in Australia. We have these relationships with the players in so we pretty much just put it on kind out of our head of productions plate put it on their radar that. Hey We're thinking that it might not be a bad idea if we can go to the President's Cup this year well turned out that they kind of took. This pretty seriously came back to us. You know couple of weeks later and said you know there's actually some money that we can find I behind it. which anytime you have money behind something bars tool that helps your case dramatically so we had some money couple? Sponsors Fanta Peter Millar two of our favorites that That are interested in sponsoring the trip so my little ears perked up. I like to plan trips. Everybody knows that the Boondoggle boys the originals originals myself entrenched daddy so I started to put things together a little bit and say well. Well how well you tell me. We can fly across the world to Australia area. Where Tiger Woods Justin Thomas Bryson D Shambo? All these great players at the time for all we knew brooks cap good Johnson. All these phenomenal best players in the world. Many of which we've we've achieved some sort of relationship with are going to be playing on the on the world stage against the internationals on international soil in Australia. One of the great courses in the World Alister Mackenzie's Royal Melbourne. And we could be there. kangaroos is dangerous fucking snakes. There's amazing of course we can be there to capture whatever content we can capture. I think we might have something here. So so that's sort of how all this came to be now. You saw what we were able to get while we're out there. We had the fist bump the J. T. Video video where he and Zander Shafi or playing lefty against frankie seeing if they can drive them the Kangaroo Video Trent making a hundred thirty fifty foot pot whatever it was. I'm sure that it'll will be two hundred and fifty feet by the time we're done talking about the story but you also we got. It was amazing time in Melbourne mixing. It up at the Presidents Cup Tiger millions means of us on that good great grand then. We jumped over the bar. Google we've recorded. I think four or five more that are going to be episodes from sort of us being out in the wild playing these different courses around the world and and you know highly producing video of US trying to play golf courses in experiencing using these things that we know are on pretty much every golfers bucket list in the world now just shortly after that. We have Christmas New Year's Barstool. We get that entire time off. You know we're pretty much. Were talk a lot about how we're always on That's kind of our or gigs. You're always gotta be on. You always gotta be knowing what's going on in the news. You gotta be ready to blog something you gotta talk about something when the tournament's going on you know we're covering Saturday Sunday. It's just what we do. It's the GIG it's great. We love it on imaginable talked about earlier And so one of the huge perks is that we pretty much close the office down. Christmas new years depends depends win those win win in the week days. Those holidays fall but this year okay. So you're telling me we'RE GONNA go to to Australia. It's GonNa take at least a eight nine ten day drug because we need to cover the event the whole time. It takes a couple of days to get their takes a couple of days to get back. So you're telling me I could be all the way in Australia. Presents cut wraps up. Barbara shoot wraps up. It's now Wednesday. I'm in Australia. I could go back to work for Thursday Friday and then we're just offered basically two weeks or I could just stay on the other side of the world where were there is Tasmania King Island. New Zealand will fuck me. I think I'll do that. So the other guys they wanted to go back to a company Party and I wanted to get a couple of days facetime in the office very understandable Kudos to them. I said well fuck dot. I'm GonNa take this opportunity while I'm here. I'm not knock it back to you on this for a couple of days. I'm lockup I'm going to try to get out filming rigs verse videos. I can and really just see this part of the world while I'm here because how many other times times do you get the chance to have already taken a twenty two hour flight across the world and you're just bought right in this part of the world you got nowhere to be for the next basically two weeks workwise so really. I had this window about a week long window. Where my only my next commitment after? We kinda parted ways foreplay crew in Australia in. Tasmania my next minimum. Was I had to be home for Christmas Eve or my mom would kill me. I just had to get home so I had about a week to really finagle something and luckily an angel from the Planning Heavens Frank. Krieger whose with best of New Zealand Goff highly recommended to me from my good friend. Matthieu put me in touch and I said look. There's some courses I wanNA see. On King Island King Island is a very small fifteen hundred person island just north and west of Tasmania which all that south of Melbourne south of the main island of Australia. and I really would would like to see New Zealand who the fuck wouldn't want to see New Zealand So basically through all of this at frank who is a hero and we went back and forth ten twenty times. We never able to get on the phone. Which while I'm trying to plan this We were we were in Bermuda And then we Australia and it was just it was it was Thanksgiving than we are in Bermuda but it was very difficult to get on the phone with him so a lot of emails back and forth but long story short. The story really begins Wednesday nearly two weeks ago where I found myself and I knew I was going to find I myself alone in Tasmania and I've got a week before I have to be home for Christmas Eve. So what the hell would you do and what what I did from. There was the guys left. We parted ways. I slept at Barnes Google on Tuesday on Wednesday morning which I believe that was his December. I got a million pop ups in currently my calendar is on May twenty twenty. So I have to scroll back to December that was December eighteenth. I wake up for him. You have to drive an hour. I want to half to the airport. Launceston that believe that's how you say Launceston. We talked lascaux Launceston that I'd take a flight from from Launceston to King Island totally about a forty minute flight total maximum but my plane get on this plane as a prop plane person on the plane. The only passenger. There's probably twelve seats or so but on the only passenger seat one so think about a plane pop hop on this whole thing step on tiny airport by zero zero security none zero not anything you check your bags which is literally a joke. Guy Comes out in like takes a marker and like writes your initials on like a little piece of paper that he basically tapes onto your bag and then he's just like okay and then he just grabs your bags hands on the guy standing next Literally throws them on the plane. You Watch him do that and this is on the island of Tasmania so I get on. This plane may just be the only passenger until we're going to pick some more on the wet. I'm like okay. WE'RE GONNA pick them up on the way. What are they fucking parachuting from another plane on the airplane? What do you mean we're GONNA pick pick people up in the Hague? That's not a thing while you were GonNa make a real quick stop Bernie Bernie Probably be a five minutes. Dot will pick them up. We'll be running away. Should be at King Island in in about an hour maybe a little bit under now Sitting in seat one like four and a half feet in front of me are the two pilots the guy literally gave the safety the whole little spiel so he gave it on one need or sitting right in front of me maybe a foot in front of me so I am just going through the pamphlet which is really pretty interesting moment because I think we all shout dunkeld chats all out the safety thing but when the fucking pilot. WHO's this Australian guy who you really hoping knows what he's doing because your finest China's who brought Blaine over Das- Mania and it it just it feels like you know like a a commercial plane feels like even if the pilot doesn't know what he's doing those things he's just fly themselves? This motherfucker did not fly itself that guy in front of me on one knee. Mu Safety thing. He flies it. And you need to know how to fly it and so you don't want to like tune Out so that's the first time I actually really he even put you know. He's putting the life jacket on doing all that right in front of me. It's actually really paying attention. It's Kinda thing like if you don't know he we actually don't pay attention and then shit hits the fan. You might be Kinda screwed. He tells you all this whistle that you can blow For for help. There's a certain way that you need to know how to put the thing. I learned a lot and you had to because again the guy sitting right on your face and if you don't then you're just a real jerk off while this guy is telling you the safety thing a foot and a half from your face and if you're on your phone or something that can't happen so we fly pop up into the air fly about twenty minutes Landreau quick like a family of six or something get on. He gives them Safety Shapiro. We take off. I don't know four four minutes later something like that. Then you fly to the very small island of King Island now you land. It's a beautiful thing but you notice as your landing. I mean you can just see from one of the end of the island all the way to the other and it's only like half of your vision you can see it's just ocean everywhere the small island and you're thinking man. This is where we're actually going to this tiny little place. What could possibly be here? Well some amazing things here. I'm going to talk about that. I I've talked about pink Whitney and this is a little bit ironic. 'cause Whitney myself we get into it funny rigs that you'll be on a podcast by yourself and that you have to sit here and Plug Ryan. Whitney's drink that's it's probably making him a bazillion dollars which is ridiculous because he already has a bazillion dollars because he robbed the NHL inmates over thirty million dollars but it does happen. It does turn out that I very much like to drink and pink Whitney made by new answering vodka. The official sponsor of Barschel's sports pig Whitney has taken off everywhere. I remember when I went to cabinet in September. That was like September fifteenth. Weekend when two cabinet. Pink Whitney wasn't available in Canada at the time. And I brought a bottle of pink Whitney and these two Canadian lads mates. Great guys didn't know each other. They both brought myself and alerts on my whole crew. Some local Canadian beer to drink and I knew this was happening. They had reached out. The as we get. Envy is when it bring me some Some from alcohol some goods from Canada. Great why wouldn't we will meet with taking pictures. Say Hi and then. We'll be on our Mary. Well News happenings. I brought a bottle of pink Whitney up to give if to them should about to. That was a mistake because they legit. I brought the bottle and I said okay guys. I know there's two of you and only one bottle so I don't know exactly what you WanNa do here and I figure I go. Yeah the other guy can just have it ono. No no these guys legitimately squared off in the rain outside and did a best of three rock paper scissors for the pink. Whitney bottle and the reason is because p Whitney's phenomenal the way that I like to drink it I feel that glass all the way up to the top with ice and I just pour that pink Whitney and let it sit for a minute to because I do like it to water down just a hair and I like. I'm like that with almost all my drinks. I like like ice in my whiskey. If you WANNA call me soft fine you know. It's not soft pink winning it's delicious New Amsterdam Vodka. The official vodka of Barstool sports and Whitney the chocolates guys. I can't do anything but give them credit. They made a phenomenal drink. Go Get yourself some drinking and twenty twenty drinking forever because it's great okay. King Cup of golf courses on King Island again. It's only fifteen hundred people. Think about how few people that is fifteen hundred the people that is nothing when you've been to like a A comedy show some of these like decent. Even some of these decent size comedy shows. That'll have love in some of the theaters. I'm thinking of Boston. They're like you know. Twelve hundred fifteen hundred seat. It's seems like a really small crowd because we're used. Who's to these stadiums? You Go watch a hockey game where you go watch a football game. You Got Twenty thousand fifty thousand a hundred thousand people he stadiums you go to some of these theaters theaters. Where they do those comedy type shows and and that's a it's a great experience here but I mean twelve hundred fifteen hundred people you look you can look around? You can envision that that's nothing that's the entire population is fucking island. There's like a cheese factory on there and then there's farming and then there's like a shuttle service or a rental car company and that's it it. That's the only thing on this island except since I believe twenty sixteen to new golf courses and it's a little bit of a coincidence that the two were kind of built in came to be at the same time because forever on this island there was just a nine hole course a little shorter little nine hole course. That is there to this day. That is a up kept by volunteers. There's no official like staff that up. Keeps his place sexually really cool. It's very brown out because they don't have You Know Oh big staff upkeeping it making it green that so it's plays incredibly old school. We drove around with John. Who is the superintendent or was a superintendent? Now he's got he's a little bit more in charge. They dislike the manager. General Manager of Cape Wickham but he and his wife actually drove me around in their pickup truck. The little nine hole course there but until again a couple years ago three or four years ago. There's essentially no golf on the island coincidentally ocean dunes in Cape Wickham. mm-hmm were built by to kind of totally different crews in came to be about the same time so land in King Ioan in airport's a joke. I mean you walk right off the plane you kind of. No one says a word to you. You just on the tarmac. You're you're you're just. You're just on the tarmac on the runway. You could really go wherever you want at this point you look around. There's essentially nothing. I mean you're just on an island that is just off an island that is just south of a bigger island and that island is called Australia. The only thing between Australia in Antarctica on the line the King Island is on is. That's just it and so you kind of out there and you're looking around and it's such a such a fresh injection should've fresh air and sort of Holy Shit. I will never be in another place like this in my life. I never have been another place like this in my life. It's very exciting. You Walk Right into the airport. Tiny little airport. They have a very small little coffee. Shot which I was surprised by and I do think it's probably the only coffee shop on the entire island and the right next to that there's a very small desk and it just says rental car. I had rented a car shadow to Frank. Hits at the whole thing up. I walked right up there. They've got like three pieces of paper out each one with the key on top of it a car key and they just go on. What's your name Sir? No Samba's which my real name a guy this is you they hand me a key. You and a piece of paper signed something like yours is a little white Hyundai right out front just pulled my car right up front. That was a Kurama bags. Real quick you all right you throw your stuff in the car which the steering wheels on the right side. You have to drive on the left side but it doesn't matter you don't see anybody on this island ocean dunes. It's about a three minute drive away from the airport so I would say within within what within three and a half minutes of of wheels down down at the airport. I was in the car and driving less than five minutes to the golf. Course you pull into ocean dunes so ocean dunes. Maybe the most understated arrival. I've ever had it a golf course in my entire life. There's the haven't built a full clubhouse yet they haven't even really started construction on it. It appears there's just a small little very temporary clubhouse basically a hut. It's got like a couple picnic tables in this. Little outdoor patio area and in the pro shop is is maybe feels like a Manhattan apartment closet They have a couple boxes of golf balls. Thank God desperately needed. That Guy David in their great guy love Barstool loved we did get you all set up and then they pretty much just let you do whatever the hell you want. There was no one there at the time so I grab a cart. Roll out a hit balls for a little bit. Actually which was nice needed hit balls in the temporary clubhouse at ocean dunes it looks out over. I mean when you when you pull in the parking lot is it's all all gravel road you drive through this little gravel road for probably Couple minutes actually. So the real time for the airport to what looks like the entrance is like two or three minutes and then you drive every couple more minutes on. Just this gravel road can't see anything and all of a sudden. The coast appears park in this tiny little tiny little gravel road parking lot that has has maybe spaces for. I don't know eight cars something like that. You walk down and again at this point. You're thinking that you drove to the maintenance shed you're thinking you drove to the service entrance of the golf course. Nope you drove to the main entrance. You walk down. Go into the little hut that I just described and then again you're kind of on your merry little way. I was alone at this point. I got a car and I just buzzed around. This golf course. Playing Music has playing some classic rock and play my game now. One thing. That's scary. Is that they tell you before you tee off says You know there's the I T and you're GONNA be out there by yourself so if anything happens. There's a snake kit underneath your seat if you think. The snakes are supposed us to be bad in Australia. Mainland Australia or even on Tasmanian out here I mean there are signs everywhere that say beware and then there's a little snake emoji Gee and it says snakes seen in area and they're everywhere in these snakes again are snakes that if they bite you they will fucking kill you. It's not like a snake's extra gross. I don't like them. They're like they're evil which they are but I don't like them they like they slither around and they're just kinda grows and if they bite you might hurt. No It's if they bite you you will die. Your Life will end. You'll go from a living breathing thing with with feelings and thoughts and family and job to just dead it. You'll just be fucking dead if one of these things bites you his. I'm out of here in a cart by myself on King Island where there's no one around and I have a snake under my seat to this day. I don't know what that means a snake. It maybe it's just a revolver and if you get bit by snake while you're out there playing golf by yourself you just get the revolver out in shoes of the head because wiles would you rather just lay there with horrific evil serpents slithering around you biting you in killing it. You WanNa do that. So the snake nick it might have just been a revolver. I'm not sure 'cause I never opened it because luckily it never happened because any single golf ball. I hit that went anywhere close to a an the area where one could conceal oneself I e deadly. Snake I just took a drop in took a penalty trump. Get to how many fucking balls I lost I loss so many golf balls but really I mean think about it you can't i. There are so many times where I knew I knew man. My Golf Ball is within like a ten or twenty square foot area right here just off the rough in this like little Henry fescue stuff. It's playable if I just walked in there. Five six feet. I could find it. But what's the alternative a snake bites you and you just die. No that's not worth it. Why the hell would you do that you you wouldn't so I took a ton of drops ocean dunes first four holes? We thought we were in for. Maybe one of the greatest rounds in the history of the world with this with this golf course I was Dogleg right par-five in your Looking out sort over towards the ocean a little bit off the tee. But there's is as big Dune and if you get aggressive you can rip one over the over the Dune and then you get over there which I did no big deal and then you get over there and it takes a pretty much ninety degree right. Turn right down towards the ocean so the green you're very elevated hitting down into this green. That's well below you. And the only thing that's behind it is the ocean and it's a par. Five sheer kind of ripping added got into a lot of space wide open before the green. So you can Kinda Miss. It feels good adot cooked Made Bogey but then the second hole again you kind of drive over in your hit now. It's a little bit of a blind shop at. It's only two hundred sixty seventy eighty yard par four and all you can see kind of to the right. Am behind where you presume. The green is ocean. The needed up to number three number three. The tee box is right along the coast. And then there's a little inlet that's between the tee box in the fairway and then the fairway cut runs pretty much straight out but maybe even a little bit kind kind of angled off to the right. So you're hitting t shot over the ocean to this fairway that's angled away from you. You're thinking like Holy Shit Roll here on the third hole. The fourth hole the tee box is even more back in this corner Right along the coast. You actually have to like tip toe your way out there On this little piece of land that exists and the and then you hit your shot again over the ocean to this Greens about one hundred fifty our whole. So that's how you start at Ocean Now I will say that the rest of the holes in the front nine you go a little bit more inland or not quite as sweet but some of them are still really cool. I think sixth sixth hole goes back out towards the water is a great downhill. Par Four I WANNA say it's the eighth hole. Maybe they gets the eighth will that's great par-three sort of a little bit more inland home Then you get to the back. Nine of the ten th hole is a par three again re basically. You're hitting over the ocean in with like a little cliff on your right up top. That cliffs sits the Little Shop Hut that I mentioned the eleventh hole again. You go back out towards the ocean. He had a couple of inland and then holds those inland holes have double green actually love double green big Scotland Guy big links golf guy cabot links actually has a double green so I love double green. When you got two holes that go to one green it's a massive green and then a couple more holes along the back nine go out against the water really cool short par-three with a skinny little cream? That's crazy exposed to the win. It's always windy out there so the course is phenomenal now. I do think I'm hearing up to this this point that the second course on the Island Cape Wickham is way better Mike Holy Shit. How is this going to happen? One of my biggest complaints with ocean dunes. Anybody out there who's played it which probably almost nobody listening but the seventeenth eighteenth holes are kind of Inland Holes in. If there's a way which I believe there has to be for them to sort of wrap that that roundup where you play along the ocean play with these ocean views. I think that would even elevate the ocean dunes course to another level but this is my first experience at this entire place. So I'm thinking where the hell are we. This is amazing. This is the first course that I'm playing alone. I listen to music I wrote around Didn't get bitten eaten alive by really dangerous deadly evil fucking serpent snake. This is great. Medical locals mentioned David from the pro shop they said. Hey we're An Atom is David and Adam Who's part of ownership of the whole ocean dunes in management. Something like that and they said. Hey we're actually. We're having doubted the boathouse in house. We're having a little cookout a little dinner bunch of drinks. You should come back soggy divided by the locals to come by boat house my first night. I can't tell you the people king were so kind. The boathouse is a communal kitchen so the entire island has access to the communal kitchen. This lady owns it. WHO's own I believe? Forever and the whole deal is that you go use it use long as you clean up after yourself as A. It's a kitchen. They got obviously all all the They've got tables for you to kind of have your own little your own little meal your own. Little hang out a couple tables outside and the boathouse sits along the harbor. We had the most beautiful shout. Reggie weather most beautiful calm evening along the harbor. They said it's never like that. Never ever never under any circumstances except when I was there perfectly calm evening few guys actually from the PGA tour Who worked for the PGA tour happened to be on the same time I was? I knew a couple of so as them. And then like ten or fifteen locals we had maybe twenty people total fifteen people total something like that and the locals they cooked out for everybody you know. They are so excited that that folks came into their island to see these golf courses the cookout and then there's an honesty box in the kitchen. And so if you feel like just if you feel like you can throw money into the honesty. St Mark's I did obviously Marietta's person but they cook force. They fed US drink. We had an amazing time. Amazing time the locals as chatting with this one guy older man who had back packs across our no hit. I'm sorry hitch. Hiked hitchhiked across the United States of America when he was like eighteen or twenty. Something along those lines in the seventies or the sixties started Miami. He you back. In those days. He booked a flight from I believe from Melbourne to Miami. And then he had a flight out six months later he had a flight out of lax back to Melbourne Albert. And he had no money he just had the clothes in his back. And he just hitchhiked across the United States of America he went really north. America went up to like Canada down through sustained a with a family Wisconsin for a while. Then he went back up through like banned. From the Calgary area. Incredible story got to meet the locals. had a bunch of drinks had a lovely time and then John Again is kind of the one of the managers I guess general manager over at Cape Wickham and his wife gave me a nice ride home which is good because I was. It's too intoxicated to drive myself home. Slept at a Cape Wickham. Have I think sixteen little Little two bedroom kind of villas that overlooked the water right on property so I slept in one of those wake up my good friend be. Who's actually actually from the Boston? Area hadn't seen him in four years. He works for a little company. Called Golf Tech moved out to Hong Kong up tech there. He's been out there ever. Since hadn't seen him in four years he. He was very coincidentally going to be on vacation in the Australia in Australia. I said why don't you come to carry on for a day. Picked him up at. The airport is about thirty five. Forty minute drive to the airport. Didn't see one car the whole time to imagine that forty minute drive on the main road going right across the island forty minutes you can only go like fifty minutes across the island so I went quite literally across the island to pick him up. Forty minute drive. Didn't seeing car not one other car anyways pick up we go back to To Cape Cape Wickham which is on the North Western point. Kind of of King Island now Cape Wickham is and I heard this this going in. I tried to go in a surprise as I can. I try to go in with no knowledge. Of course it might sound crazy to some people but what I got in sunken into that. I didn't like was sort of this pattern of showing up at of course a bucket list. Course course I was excited to play and knowing all the holes already in knowing knowing all the visuals already and not really stepping onto a to you'd be like Oh we cow. What are we got here? This is cool. Because I been on the website I'd taken the drone tours are all of the CO by whole tours and I'd I'd sat in my cube or S- out of the office and and all I've done all my free time. We just look at the website because I was so excited to go play these courses and I had to train myself not to do that. Big Time tip if you can out there anytime you're going to play an awesome course. Really excited about go in his blind as you can and try to do no real research try to not know what the holes are going to be. What the views? You're going to be so that when you arrive. You're kind of stunned and you get to soak it it in that way and then do all fucking research want to afterwards so cape from. I knew I knew going in that it was a it was going to be. A course course that was going to end up very high rankings of all time courses. I've ever played magic. Had told me that I'd Alan ship next piece on his trip and I follow him. He's a friend of mine is well. We chatted a little bit about so cape. Wickham wasn't is one of the greatest most spectacular golfing experiences in my life. Before we get to that. Uh want you to know that this little tale that I'm telling you here is brought to you by very good friends at dude wipes it's pretty funny contrast you know this this amazing sort of euphoric like spectacular vista inexperience of Cape Wickham with Dude. Lives Wiping your little touch with dude wipes but they're huge supporters foreplay huge supporters of the bar so classic. Pick whether you are at the range whether you're playing around with the guys whether you're on the PGA tour whether you're Frankie Borelli and you bet alone you got your little ankles up by your ears to your thing. He can't ever be unprepared for a messy situation on the course or anywhere in this world you gotTa do wipes I keep my bag. I keep a little dude wipes a little on the go. 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You can get all the things you need dude on Amazon or nationwide as well at your local Walmart and Kroger rigs twenty is the code visit Dude Products Dot com today. Get Twenty percents off with Promo Code Rigs Twenty Okay Cape Wickham. There's a Lighthouse Cape Wickham. We probably saw some of the photos that I posted. If you haven't go check them out there is a Lighthouse Cape Wickham. That really Kinda serves as the the main focal point. It's always in. The background is a couple of holes. Where you aim at it It's GonNa be it's GonNa be really the thing that Kinda Kinda stands out. It's their logo in terms of identifying. Like Oh yeah that's a whole from Cape Wickham in Cape Wickham. It's got so woody holes on the water which which of course elevated we are creatures that love being on the water. I always laugh when folks try to kind of demean a course almost by being like well. It's it only gets the rankings. Only gets all the praise and people only love it and are so infatuated with it. Because it's on the water. If you took those same holes you put him inland. They wouldn't be great holes Yeah Hey dude. If you took those fucking houses that are on the ocean and you put them inland. They probably wouldn't be worth twenty million dollars. Either they'd be worth like twenty dollars because nobody gives is a fuck about certain areas inland. Everybody loves being on the water. Everybody loves the ocean. You love looking at the the the violent wage crashing into the rocks. You'll love it Cape. Wickham has so many ocean holds the oceans. Always there because you're on this tiny in fifteen hundred person island king island so we get there in. I had seen at the evening before but I'd really almost tried to cover my eyes cause I didn't WANNA see I. I didn't WANNA be spoiled. I want to again go. In as blind as a Ken Guy explained earlier very understated arrival much like ocean in dunes A little bit more of a serious sort of clubhouse thing but it's again it's temporary there's plans at Cape Wickham to build a second course and maybe put the clubhouse in between the two courses so it's still a temporary clubhouse and again it's a fifteen hundred personnel man like how massive clubhouse in an operation could you have small thing being similar to the hut at the ocean. Do maybe a little bit more packed with a little bit more heat and what I mean by that is. There's a chef there. The chef is phenomenal me and my friend. Eight eight like three meals there. I think all three meals here this day and the the chef is so stunningly stunningly. Good eight like breakfast sandwich. phenomenally like a Turkey Sandwich for lunch. Phenomenal got steak for dinner. You guessed it phenomenal phenomenal. So great chef you go grab a cart it same kind of situation. Hey boys knock shelves out beware. Snakes don't get bitten because if you could die we roll over the now beat coming from From Hong Kong originally and then his flight over actually from Melbourne thirty five minute flight from Melbourne to King Island from Melbourne was packed with a crew from Shanghai turns out this crew came straight to King Island to Cape Wickham. And they're gonNA play off around the same time they actually jumped onto the tea in. There's twelve of them. I guess maybe sixteen of them on the I t be myself in a cart. Just the two of us we both play lightning-fast golf plans to play thirty six holes. It's only like ten. AM sunsets around this time. Eight thirty nine were playing gorgeous. Course there's nobody out there because again tiny will allowed except this crew of twelve may be sixteen. People from Shanghai are fun us and I gotTa give it to one of the guys who works at the course. Recognizes situation ran up. There did a little talking in a couple of guys from Shanghai. Hi From the Shanghai crew they kind of recognize the situation as well and they said you guys to said Yeah. They said they didn't speak English so they let us play through on the. I t the very first of Cape Wickham. We're playing through these people. Now they're again. They're so excited to be here. They just rip their clubs out of the travel bags. The I T is legitimately millie mode into the practice cream. The I t is like it could be one of the it could be one of the practice green holes that you put into but instead they just put to tee markers their new literally tee off from the practice great so it's a whole little Caesar couple people putting And then all the whole Shanghai crew and then us so they're all on the T.. Either putting or literally standing on the T. Kinda because they're excited. They started their little bodies trip. What and so being I step up we both ripping down the fairway? Massive fairway most wide vary ever seen your life. Life Wind Howling left to right. The whole is starts like a three hundred maybe sixty yard par for ocean all down the right ocean all behind the holy. You can see from the t a wide open fairway. So it's very inviting one of the coolest opening tee shots in golf. It's very friendly and again wins hard off the laughs. You can really just fire something out the left outside the wind will drag it twenty three yards. You can't miss the fairway. It's almost impossible. We both the fairway they go crazy. I'm talking this. Shanghai crew is is going nuts is like just watch tiger. Can the winning caught at the two thousand eight. US Open or can that that he had to make to force a playoff against Rocco mediate. That look fifteen foot cited. It was like that I mean I i. I'm like Oh yeah we're all laughing then beheads the fairway they go nuts and we're all laugh we can't fucking speak with and we don't speak the same language not even close so they're kind of saying they each one of 'em fist-bump sauce and then they're like picture we gotta get a picture. They demanded picture of the American and so we had already cracked open a couple beers. Here's his crew from Shanghai. We ripped drives down the middle of the fairway. The biggest ferry versus entire fucking planet. We take a picture with his crew and then we played through threw them in the first team second hall all along the Ocean again. Wide Open Fairway Pretty Short part Pretty Short Part for and you learn very quickly as you're playing Cape Wickham third hole like a maybe a hundred seventy five yard par three You have to hit again over the ocean. Actually she posted. I think a picture of this one on twitter and you learn very quickly at Cape Wickham that you are on a course that you'll just never really forget you're also realizing in kind at the moment and I actually talked to a lot of the guys all the other guys Frankie. Trent Lurch Jake everybody in in my friend be about how unique it is. When you're down there in that playing off in that you step on a lot of these teas and you? She stepped onto these courses. You arrive at the first time as you're playing it. It's very different to sort of know in your head that you will never ever be back here again. You will most likely never under any circumstances circumstances be able to play this whole again or to have this experience again because even if you if you live in the states dates which you do you're you're listening show or anywhere you live really. You know you might get that chance to play the coolest course around your town and you know like you can't believe I got out there but like you'll probably be able to get out there again and even me like if you go to ban and dunes a really cool trip to band and dunes and you have a great buddies trip and you're thinking that God I need to soak this up because it's so hard to get here and so cool but like in the back of your mind you're you're also thinking like maybe we'll be back like five ten years or maybe even next year at some point they will bring kids here. We'll be back. We can make the the flight from you know from the Midwest or from New York out to abandon to Oregon. We can do that even if you played tablets like this once. It's in a lifetime thing but maybe when you have kids some day you'll get back out there again or maybe even the US Open you'll get tickets and you'll go watch you'll be there again when you're fucking King Island Australia Eh. You Know Kinda hits you that you're thinking that I'm going around. This core is all. I'll ever the only experience I'll ever get ever again of this. Place will be kind of his surreal memory that like was I really ten thousand four hundred forty five miles away from home on this tiny island south of Australia playing this magnificent course that's almost like someone fabricated in my mind because it doesn't seem real and none of this seems real so you kind of gathering in having having that experience in real time is very very bizarre and unlike anything I'd ever had in golf ever not to mention you know a lot of the courses Mrs like some of the courses that I just mentioned and even if you get to play in Oakmont or Shinnecock you know you're out there in your you kind of like walking on eggshells and you. You're actually actually literally walking the golf course you might have academy might be carrying like your walk me and my boy be we have. We picked up twelve beers in the shop. And we have a car we got music blaring and there's no one in front of us and there's not GonNa be anybody in front of us all day. The Sun is shining there's minimal wind for their. They say the wind always whips that. Sometimes people can't even go out and play. It was like maybe a fifteen on our wind. Just perfect the whole day. So it's like ten fifteen in the morning we're on the third or fourth hole maker way around now you're GonNa see a lot of the press that this place is going to get. Cape Beckham is going to be about some of the holes with the with the lighthouse in the background in more of the like hardcore ocean holes the eighteenth hole. Is this gorgeous par for the kind of wraps around the beach where you can literally hit your ball off the beach. Favorite allowed their the ninth hole and I filmed the reverse video on it. You're going to see it. But it is downhill par-five that goes out towards the ocean. There's huge dunes kind of on the right nightside and then down by the Green. There's this massive Dune just left of the Green. The green is like cut into and It's unlike any haul ever seen in the world world and it's followed by this really cool par for the didn't even know existed because when you're playing the ninth hole like I said it kind of goes down in towards the water and they build it in a way where you can't you know it almost looks like the green reheating approach shots and whatnot so kind of infant negree looks like the Greens in the ocean. And then you get past the hole on you see there's another whole Whole this little part for that is like a half pipe? fairways like a half pipe in it goes straight downhill in all the way towards his green. Green Green is sunken. You know inches away. From the rocks were the oceans crashing into the rocks and this is the tenth out there in so you get these kind of back to back calls. The eleventh hole is this short barred three that again. You literally hit over the ocean. The twelve whole kind of driveable par four. Where if you WANNA take golf more the left you have to again risk leaving it in the ocean If you pulled a little left or you can try to rip it right of the green if you do. You know you can drive the green and then you kinda come back around the clubhouse Fifteen goes right out towards the lighthouse. It's kind of on the the high part of that little this little peninsula that the lighthouse is on our that. The lighthouse leads to that that is sort of separates the first nine the first part of the course with the second part. And then you go the last three the whole you go straight back in towards the towards the clubhouse the entire way towards that little beach I told you about but sixteen is a gorgeous part for oceans down the right slight dogleg right in the second half of the whole so that your your second shot. Your approach shot is again into the screen that looks like it. Issues perched up along the ocean the little cove that comes into the ocean. Seventeen is again another beautiful par-three with the ocean all on the side of the hall and then eighteen eighteen is described earlier. Where where you know you can? You can bite off as much as you want to chew. Right yes along the The beach and and if you if you hit a little bit more aggressive shot in tiny little legend if not more of a mid iron into this green and it's there's the All along along the left side is a is a massive kind of Dune or hill cliff type thing and on top of it is where the clubhouse it so. It's this incredible setting. You're kind of blown away away Hole by hole that the fact that this could be on one golf course and it plays a pretty damn links. It plays very lengthy which I love. Which means you know? It's it's you're you're almost never hitting like a sixty degree wedge by boy. We had to learn that quickly like six or seven holes. And he's like okay. They don't want you to use your way out here. They don't ease secret. Wedge you gotTa bump it you gotta use Kinda the terrain and we had a ton of fun with that so at that point ran it again and there's really nothing more in having played that course. Having kind of the experience is talked about. You're like well never get to play again being like the minute we get to play again. No one in front of us. Thirty thirty six holes Had A bunch more a bunch more beers loaded backup. Stayed did stake in the evening and then drove to a little King Island hotel woke up flew out King Island. I can't recommend it enough to people to phenomenally so friendly. They were very open with the fact. act like it's kind of a risk to build these courses because nobody ever comes this island. The hope is that in building them. More people will visit. They'll be able to grow this tourism awesome Business that the island could desperately use the airport needs to get a little bigger because the you know the flights now I can only come in really from Melbourne because the airport so small they wanna get fights that can come in from Sydney as well. A lot of people do come in from Sydney but they have to go through Melbourne so it was really interesting hearing kind of the whole ecosystem them of this place and how it it will won't survive in. I really really hope that it does because even though I did that whole spiel the he'll never be back. You know. Part of me thinks one Sunday I would love to return there see it kind of thriving and maybe see another course or two. There and more infrastructure in the clubhouse is ready to go and more people kind of experience the whole thing because again to be playing that magnificent of a golf course in links type shape. That's on a tiny island south of Australia. The we think between Australia and Antarctica on that line is crazy town and it was really cool so Cape Wickham about as high on my list as you could possibly be on next part of the trip began. I wake up the next morning. We fly to Melbourne. I say goodbye. Beat enjoy your little Drive ten minutes from the small all airports that you fly into on the tiny plane to the real main Melbourne airport. I fly Melbourne to Auckland. New Zealand. This about this actually surprises people. It's it's about a four hour flight about three and a half hour flight and a lot of people think it's a little hop skip and a jump boom you're there nope not the case About pretty serious flight. There's a time difference couple of different time zone difference prince or whatnot so it's kind of a full day of travel arrive in New Zealand on on Friday December. Calendar thing again. I gotta do the calendar Fan. GimMe a second folks. This is December twentieth. I land in Auckland New Zealand about four thirty thirty PM. And my my hotel about five thirty PM. I didn't realize this I went to the bar grabbed. A couple of beers had dinner by myself in the bartenders from Israel she was telling me struck up a conversation Chit Chatter. I'm excited on fucking vacation. And she was telling me first of all anywhere on this earth you go the minute that you walk into a place. Everyone Arnott's your American. Everybody which I'd heard before I heard that when I was in Scotland you can dress euro. You can dress you know South Pacific you can dress Austrailia and you can dress however you want the minute you arrive walk into a place rhinos. Yup that's an American. Has I told me second thing. She told me he was like the whole country of New Zealand. Apparently for Christmas New Year's gets off much like Barstool sports dot com. They get off so like the bars. Were hopping everybody's AH. They're hopping and I sent it so it's like five thirty six. PM On Friday and you know has been on that. Should I go. It's crazy because everybody's holiday as as I mean everybody you know the whole country's off for like two weeks so everybody was out. I was exhausted. Traveling thirty six holes a day before drank a bazillion beers took a million shots lost. Just a million balls. I was kind of ready to go to bed so I stuck it out for a couple of hours. I bought some things I had to go. Do some shopping can't go to not get Christmas gifts from you and you have to the dealer shop and went to bed. Wake up Saturday morning. It's now Saturday in New Zealand. It's the first real full day of their like two two week long vacation so I go to In this was all all so incredibly easy because of my guy frank and the best of New Zealand Golf folks. When I arrived in my hotel Friday night there was an envelope? I'll vote on my bed. Opened the envelope. It's got vouchers for everything rental car that I'M GONNA get pick up the next morning voucher. Ben Breakfast I'm staying at night voucher teatime at Cari cliffs. which is the last leg of the trip? Voucher all stuff's made so frigging easy. All those flights I just told you about these little puddle. Jumper is a little planes that you jump on all booked all mates. You gave my credit card number. Said Frank Trustees great guy your whole crew all the other the the other employees that he's got working for him who is in touch with supercross regained my credit card boom booked everything to do. Show up rigs just put me on a plane flying me wherever wherever frank exorcism going. He arranged at Tiffany terrain these guys. Supposed to roll the R Delaney today. I I can't say he's supposed to roll. The are tittering is the only golf course in New Zealand designed by Alister. Mackenzie the only one. And there's the two courses I play after Terry in Chiari cliffs are are spectacular. And they've got the crazy views. tittering is twenty minutes from city centre in Auckland. Big ACIDY And so I was like frank recommended. It there's a ghetto. It'd be cool to see an original Alister Mackenzie course. It's obviously about one hundred years later. So the courses changed but there's an initiative at the club to kind of restore into kind of our fix a lot of the bunkering and get back to close but now you can tell it's grown there's housing all over the place and and it's kind of like jammed into the middle of discounted neighborhoody part of Auckland in. It almost had a little bit of like Mary. Antivirus to over Marion. Nobody's ever been married and it's like there's not even. There's barely room for the golf course. Course let alone like spectators in what not to watch. I don't know how they do. US Open's at Marian because it's so packed in there and that's how it felt at tittering. But I show up and Again Saturday morning is probably ten eleven. Am something like that. I I don't know what the Hell's going on. I don't know who exactly I'm playing with but I had heard you know. Maybe one of the assistant pros is a is a Barstool fan or four play fan and wanted you to play. And he's got a group Linda and you're going to have a great time your show. Great top say okay. That's not problem. I can do that so I roll in and I Guy Meet in the parking lot. Kevin Carney says something Rigs yeah what's up man goes. I'm Cuban so what the fuck is keeping even what do you mean they big thing in New Zealand New Zealand accident the they the ease is like double ease. So Kevin Keegan. I'm keeping up giving the Cubans. Not even playing with us. He was he just wanted to hang out he just wanted ended up caddying for me and I think he said he got into golf couple of years ago. Fourteen eighty cat loves golf. Loves the show loves barstool and just kind of wanted to hang out and you're the guy's obviously that we're playing with and you kind of want to just hang out plays the of course member of course plays all the time so he caddied for me tried to pay him afterwards. Wouldn't accept. It had some beers at afterwards. He did accept those we had time. Keven caddies for me and then we played with Brett threat. WHO's one of the pros? I believe there Johnny and Alex Johnny was my partner. So we get. There is no range but the courts I now have a plane about a day and a half and I've been fighting my driver like you wouldn't believe and you all saw that in in Bermuda for the last month on since like the mid November late November ever since we got back for the Carolina trip been fighting driver and I got the thoughts in my head when I pull out a driver. You wouldn't believe folks you wouldn't believe you just wouldn't believe so I'd fight the driver. I'm thinking like I'm GonNa get a little early well. I didn't get the rental cars of hugh pain in the ASS Just because 'cause I couldn't figure it out and went to the wrong place 'cause I'm done so there's no time to arrange there wasn't arranged anyway so you can't drive so we walk on his first team. Everybody I can tell a whole crew. He's actually been pretty quiet at the far feels a little serious. I would find out later. They were all just hung over. Nobody's really Chitchat. In that early in the morning on Saturday their whole vacation just started very understandable. We to this I t and it's again it's pretty damn wide open pretty wide open. I don't really know exactly hit it. But it's he's hit pretty much straight. You can even hit it over right bunker. You're totally fine. Not a big deal. It's refund well my boy Brett steps up I rips of driver delegate show Alex steps up I think he's got his hand hits a long iron longer than I've ever seen anybody you buy in real life. Hit an iron my partner Johnny. We threw balls up in the air my partner Johnny got me. You're not gonNA like that so I'm thinking anybody who makes comments. It's like a twenty eighty cap or maybe like an anti copy plays like twenty handicap like. I didn't Bermuda Johnny just roasts a driver. I mean hits the driver eight million miles in gone rougher so I step up and thoughts go ahead. I T's right next to the clubhouse so anybody are you standing out there. Anyone who's who's walking around the locker room. The pro shop eaten a bite to eat there. All right. They're basically on top of you like it's fucking stadium. And there's this little tee box right there I e I hit the furthest right Dr. You've ever seen your entire life and it wasn't like shake one like it wasn't like a low Oh cut Kinda hit something stays in play or whatever it was. It was hit hard and show far-right that given actually instinctively just said WHOA. And somebody else's group is like Whoa in their all Everybody's Keeping looked amigos fourteen I've never seen one that fought right at the furthest right what's over their neighborhoods neighborhoods so retail. Not I think we we lost the first hole with a Birdie so to kind of put everything into perspective here. Here's me. I'm slapping it around. I your shot one. Oh three one hundred and Bermuda and I'm struggle. My game can't get a driver in play. Play these guys. We lost the first hole with a birdie because my boy johnny honey I believe the whole so easy even though I hit the furthest right to shot in the hole so easy that we're like giving back a shot so her Janis like a plus two so he's giving back to shots so fucking route of the gate. They make a Birdie. Our Guy makes a Birdie we lose the whole next hole. I hit one OUTTA playwright David for bowl stripe them we lose the whole to another Birdie third hole. They make like another fucking Birdie and we are Birdie was squashed again because our fucking guy is getting too many strokes he has to give away to the quarter. The three down through fucking three in these guys are playing golf and nobody's even really talking that much because they're all here's me I'm thinking what the fuck am I doing. Here at this Alister Mackenzie course in. Houston I'm in fucking New Zealand by self. I don't know anybody. These guys are all like what I did I get. This is a joke. Is this a trick that somebody tricked me as their fucking camera. That's like we have to capture. How out of place rigs is going to feel with these sticks out here making birdies left and right not saying fucking word do each other? We'll turns out the day eventually. Cracked open a bunch of beers after like the eight four or so cracked open a bunch of beers got things going Brett. My man who was Craig apparently does not play golf. Every starts drinking so he went from just a stripe show to like worse than me. which is bad is started too? And I'm a really good down wind player not a good into the wind blow. We played like the last six or seven straight down win that I'm I was playing off a sevens and so I was getting like nine showers getting seven or eight shots And really like nine because my man Johnny was giving away somebody shots. Long Story Short. We went from three or four days. We ended up winning. I had a couple Couple holes in the background factored in we ended up winning and we had a bunch of beers. We sat up at the clubhouse afterwards the little remember Barbara. It's a members bar tittering. I'm never going to say that. Right is awesome overlooks. The course overlooks that. I just told you about where guys like me. hit eight million yards out of bounds. Right and and Had just a delightful day. They're telling me all about Auckland there. Tell me about the core. Some of the inner fighting's of course with the bunkering in the new bunkers. Now anybody who you know you know the name. Allison Mackenzie Build Augusta national with Bobby Jones. He built Cypress Point which is one of the most famous courses in this entire higher world Royal Melbourne which we just the President's Cup out. He's famous for his bunkering. You don't know what that means. Think about any picture you've seen from Cyprus point of these kind of sprawling like finger type bunkers that that look so natural but also kind of day just so unique in there like Allison Mackenzie and there were holes out there where that was so clearly the case whereas like okay. This feels like an original alister Mackenzie home. And then there were green complexes they wouldn't believe Louis one green out. There was a five tier green five years that one two three four years five years think like the fourteenth green at Augusta the whole would know bunkers. The whole were tiger made birdie twice this past year when he won the master's tournament he is a defending champ when we go into it in two thousand twenty where Tiger Woods made birdie from the left trees security guard almost killed him. Think about that. Green is like a huge false front and then you see t shirt you see approach shots in that green mass the penalty on the left and in someone will land in one sort of like what looks like. It's going to be on that tier and then it just starts to catch a region it rolls away and the camera pans and you have to be thinking your head like okay. This camera camera has to pay into like the end of the green pretty soon but it just doesn't because the green is so massive and it collapsed and then funnels another area. That's what allowed these Greens were like which was Super Super Fun to play. The Greens. Were awesome again. The head kind of the bones of Mackenzie course which was great to see but also had you had the the very clear evidence of like out been one hundred years. Things have changed a little bit Regardless awesome experience those guys were super record. Play where I can't imagine. It was going through their head after my first tee shot because the oil is going in a way I have to hit again. That went out of bounds. So I'm still like my situation hasn't improved by usually. There's a little bit of a relief right. You hit that first tee shot after you're nervous after you're clearly in a position you don't WanNa be in your thinking. Like how the Hell Am I gonNa get this. Why didn't play actually was just still in the same situation except I just hit a worst? He shot than even I thought I was going to hit. And so I can't imagine it was going through their brains at the time but Keven Brett Johnny Alex we had an awesome time. Phenomenal time and we won. We won. I believe it was one up at the end of the day. Okay so that feels great drive about two hours. North up to Mandalay mango I beach area of New Zealand. You get a little bed and breakfast I go out on the beach. Fly The drone get some cool shots the North Island of New Zealand. Where I'm at at this point? Oy and the North Island of New Zealand. It's gorgeous it's spectacular. It's unlike anything ever seen before. It's kind of gives you a little New Zealand vibe but the South Island is apparently the place to be. The South Island apparently blows the North Island out of the water the South Violence where they filmed You know Frodo fucking running around with the with the ring trying not not to get caught by the bad guys the all that stuff that all when you really think New Zealand you really think that kind of stuff. That's all South Island Queens down supposed to be gorgeous. Prog go back and see some of that stuff. We are on the North Island were on the North Eastern Coast. were making our way up the northeastern coast of New Zealand and We stop at this lovely bed-and-breakfast breakfast go into town garage. You know Kinda weird where you're by yourself too much alcoholic but you WANNA drink. You WanNa have a beer too. Do I don't usually drink alone. And this feels like he should so I kind of go in. Everybody knows your American. Apparently so it feels like you're walking around the fucking sign on your back but I walk in have an ice beer a little dinner. Go to bed wake up next day. Is maybe a the full day that I was the most excited about on this. Entire little. Kind of rigs rigs does his own trip. And that's tired eighty. Terry D is Terry Terry. A key tried to say these things correctly. Actually I'd never heard anybody say Terry de out loud road until I pulled up to the gate at Teriyaki in the guys just like welcome to Terry died been saying like terra e t the whole time because it's spelled two different words words like a big block at American terra e but the guys. Welcome to Terry and so I'm GonNa try to sail like that. The whole time but Terry does not know is again a relatively new place. Couple years old and it's really kind of skyrocketed in terms of the praise the press rankings that gets his a worldwide golf course coarser as as one of the courses in the world is Its its place. As one of the great new courses ever built and Outside of that it's got a very. It's it's incredibly exclusive and most places islanders even art. They're not like that crazy expensive to join and Terry he is. It's like the WHO's who of New Zealand. In America and China and Europe Europe are members at this place at Terry another good way I heard it described. I think somebody said this to not Walsh. While we'll get into but believe he told me this maybe I just made that up but somebody described as integrity has one course now. They're building two more in. The two new courses are going to be public. The building right next door. I believe Tom Doak doing one. And corcoran shower doing one. Tom Doak did Terry. The one that already exists and somebody described it as I think it was a member who described it as a terry. The current course is our Cyprus and the other courses that they built here are going to be our pebble beaches in our spyglass hills. And the point being that you know this is the this little stretch stretch of land up on this. North Eastern Coast Of Zealand is in their mind going to become one of the great stretches. One of the great pieces of land of golf in the world. And you know you have the Hamptons Long Island with Shinnecock National Golf Links Friars head you'd have to go afar you've got bethpage black and like that golf out. There is considered one of the great stretches of golf in the World Monterey Peninsula La with pebble with Cyprus with spyglass with the Monterey Peninsula Country Club courses There's I'm sure some thing of missing right Scott when you think of the Saint Andrew's injures area. There's Carnoustie's within forty five minutes of that. The old course kings barnes. You don't have to drive far and you can get Amazing Golf Edinburgh. You're going on North Barrick and all. That's join hour and a half or so away. These are some of the great stretches the sandbelt we were just add the Melbourne Australia Sam Bell and they're thinking of kind of this Stretch where Terry is one of a new great stretches in the world for golf varies you see why courses phenomenal auteuil. It has that type of you know the certain places you go where the the hospitality the service the amenities are all so. Oh next level that you're just it's like you're you once you arrive and they opened the door the car door for you and you hop out so you don't step on ground you step on a cloud cloud and you just you just walk around floating around on clouds the whole fucking day and that's kind of feels like everybody everybody that's in there they're so friendly they take care of the A very young sort of excited staff had takes care of you. The amenities are off the charts. Everything you could possibly need great showers great stalls. You gotta go go a bathroom which I did then you get out on. The golf course has ocean views the entire time. These Xilin in the background. That are clearly. You're in fucking New Zealand. You could just tell. We don't have islands like that. In America that are like the mountainous type islands that are in the background. The golf courses sources of Tom doak design and plays like that. I mean it plays pretty lengthy. He's got the Wild Greens with a huge bowls. The ball funnels in the different places really fun. Couple of short par fours and then it's got really dramatic par threes coming in again with the ocean in the background and the oceans pretty much there the entire time so charity. He was everything that I thought it would be. The reason I was able to get on there in this case this incense was Matt. Wall survey doesn't Know Matt. Matt Walsh played in the NBA. The Miami Heat for a hot second played professional basketball over in Europe for a long time and then recently last couple of years bought the new Z.. windbreakers which is Auckland's professional basketball team. They play Against All the Australian teams and he bought the team moved to New Zealand in runs the team. That's what he does. Great guys done some stuff with Barstool sports before I'm sure you've seen it and I chatted with him a few times. He got really into golf in the last handful ten years whatever it is and and so he was like have you ever come to New Zealand. I could set up Terry. I'm Coming Zealand Matt. Let's play did really really good dude. He sat us up with with this guy. Paul who calls the member and and Paul brought in a fourth his gary was also a member. WHO's actually lives up San Francisco so we have the two members? Paul Gary Gets Myself Myself. Matt Walsh Nicest guys incredibly successful. Smart guys talked about all kinds of different things from the breakers acres to the world. We're GONNA solve all the world's problems were solve all issues to the golf course to the future of charity to the House. That Paul's building on the golf course. I do build a house on the golf course. It has to meet these certain guidelines where it basically has to blend in a camp like stick out as a house. A lot of people like to build a big ass house. That sticks sounds like Yup. That's my house. MOTHERFUCKERS NOPE monetary cannot do that And all of these these really cool specific specific and unique aspects to the property and to ultimately this entire kind of region of Terry Golf. That they're going to build and so we were able. We'll get a bunch of that straight from Paul and Gary themselves who set our members know about their families were there We got lunch with their with their wise and their families afterwards they were incredibly excited and the People New Zealander just so friendly. It's Kinda crazy it's and it's not a culture shock. That's another thing. I'm gonNA tell a lot of people when you go to when you go to Australia. The biggest surprise to me was how little of a culture shock it was. Everybody speaks English. You're listening to music. Everybody gets pretty much the same cultural references to see the same movies. They love the same type of sarcasm. The same kind of humor You crack a little joke. They get it. It's not like over their heads. What they say typically isn't too much over your head And they speak. I think that's the only thing that's not easy or the same as you drive on the other side of Fucking Rep. That's the only thing that's different and your steering wheel instead of being on the left is on the right outside of that. It's not that big of a culture shock it's like you're kind of in the mid west of the United States. That's really what it feels like. People speak a little bit differently and they're very nice and that's pretty much. It except upped. New Zealand is surrounded by ocean and cliffs and mountains in the Midwest is not so great lunch afterwards. I met a couple of other members as well. They come up other families. Were in for for Christmas. Everybody happy go lucky to be there and we got to learn a lot about the place we move on Matt sided actually to hop in with me. We drive up to pretty much the very northern point of the North Island of New Zealand. And we go up that way. Okay we stay in this little town called like Pia. Pi Pie something like that New Zealand got a whole lot going on there. We get yourselves a nice little meal. You have a couple apple drinks. We watched the New Zealand breakers. We have two glasses actually of Chardonnay. While we're watching the breakers at the bar kind of a weird move but that lead with that I wasn't going to change again. I Love White One drinking Chardonnay breakers win last second shot. So he's like we gotta do shots shots have a couple more drinks. Go Bet the reason I tell you that bar is because has ever since then he just text me last night he goes. Hey I've been doing the same drinking routine for every game since we had that moment last week and the breakers haven't lost they just keep winning so he does like to lasted Chardonnay and then when they win he shot and it's all to. He's superstitious clearly. And we started a little Trenton. So congratulations to us. Any you wake up we drive about forty minutes. More north up to car eclipse card cliffs built by an American Same Guy who built I believe Cape Kidnappers Card cliffs again way up in the north North Eastern tip of the coast of the North Island of New Zealand. Probably the most you know draw jogging. Draw jaw-dropping jaw-dropping views of golf. Course I've ever seen it looks so New Zealand Zealand. You can't believe there's like a pot of islands out there on one side the other side. There's there's a driving range where you hit out. An all you can see is like you know what feels like hundreds of miles of coastline and mountainous New Zealand terrain. Sierra you're hitting what feels like you're like a a pedal pebble beach on steroids that's like the driving range Very cool course say course that most people would be. If I could just play that corresponds I will have said that. I accomplished everything I want to accomplish in golf. Magnificent place spectacular. Like you said the views you would not believe you get your camera out the whole time you take all the photos you put them on the instagram. You gotta get him in because the places so gorgeous it is the golf course I says built by an American. So is one of the few instances on the entire trip where we were playing very American course very green very luscious if you missed the green got your six degree wedge out and kind of you know pitch one out of the rough rough so the course was was architecturally. Felt like a very American course just kinda placed on this northern tip of New Zealand A phenomenal amenities again. There's like this big old lodge up there. I guess that's a bigger destination draw even than the golf course. They said if if we'll have forty or fifty people at dinner tonight only like eight of we'll have played golf course because people go up there to stay so it sound beyond just the golf course to huge destination with With these he's with folks to go up there and just see view so you can imagine if you're there just for the views and just for like a helicopter ride or just to go hiking because the views are so magnificent. Imagine what it's like playing in golf on that so really cool. Experience play with Cory who works at the bar of their corey. I met at cabot links. This past September he Is From I. Believe a couple of hours away from cabinet and Met Him at the bar up there he winters by working working in New Zealand. That's where he decided to go. I think these are. This is first time there so he was able to play with us at three of US went out. We had a bunch of drinks played a bunch of golf and really enjoyed wait. Everything that is car eclipse K. U. R. is. You can go look that up if you would like check it out. The views are magnificent and that was the end of my New Zealand trip after that that we drove over to this little airport. Remember exactly what's called took about a thirty minute flight down to Auckland. I hopped a fourteen and a half hour flight from Auckland Chicago Kogo with no internet which is not ideal. I watch four movies. Four movies toy story for yesterday. Goodfellas and Bahamian rhapsody loved all. Oh No joke. Every movie I saw was great I was a big Fan. Now I will say I'm typically a little bit more emotional on planes like I've said before cried five times during crazy rich Asians and And I got a little motion during yesterday at the end of the movie. Got A little emotional the end of yesterday which is Kinda funny. I don't WanNa give the whole thing away but regardless that's my trip I thought I would talk for maybe forty five minutes. It's been like an hour and a half so I hope you enjoyed it. Hope it wasn't weird that you're just sitting there listening to me talk to you. Happy New Year we we will be back on Thursday. Hit Heart Long.

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