18 Episode results for "Ten Thousand Barrels"

Federal Government Targets N103bn From Gas Flaring Penalty

Newscast - Africa

01:27 min | 1 year ago

Federal Government Targets N103bn From Gas Flaring Penalty

"You're listening to the news. This are Africa Business Radio. The federal government said gas flat penalty payments by all in gas companies in the country will increase to one hundred three point five one billion with the Director General Budget Office of the Federation Bene- cobwebs disclosed this in a presentation when he highlights the revenue measures taken by the government. So Manage Demon Salton pressure from the coronavirus crisis and the oil price slum a covers the governments will tighten implementation of the Twenty Eight Thousand Revised Gospel Penalty Payments Jayme of gas fled penalty for twenty twenty from forty four point seven billion to one hundred three point five one billion naira firms produce in less than ten thousand barrels of all for day. We'll pay fast. Lap and Alcee of zero point five per one thousand s the NBC. In his latest monthly reports said a total of two hundred and three point zero nine villainous gas was produced in January while seven point nine percent or six hundred and forty three point. Five nine million per day was fed and that was the news at this time on Africa. Business Radio you can continue to listen life online at. Www Dot Africa business radio dot COM OVALLES ARABLE APP. Thank you for listening.

federal government Africa Dot Africa Director General Budget Office Federation Bene naira Alcee NBC ten thousand barrels nine percent
Daily Brief, Friday, April 24th

World Oil's Daily Brief

16:22 min | 1 year ago

Daily Brief, Friday, April 24th

"Welcome to the daily brief the world. Oil podcast network daily review of market news emerging trends new technologies and the people who are advancing the oil and gas industry. Here's Cameron Wallace with your top news. Stories of the day. Good afternoon and welcome to the World. Oil Daily brief podcast. I'm Cameron Wallace and today is Friday. April twenty fourth at. We are on Friday. Finally at the end of a very historic week and so joining us is Curd Abraham Editor in chief of world oil magazine to help us understand what transpired this week. And what we can kind of expect for the next week so. Kurt thanks for your shoulder. Yeah thanks Cameron and Again another historical week and What interesting things have gone on? ransom really significant events Particularly in the oil market and in pricing itself You know we've seen things this week. We never thought we'd see in our lifetime. Things never happened before like the negative territory experienced on Monday. Of course that went away. Once we expire the May contract on the Mercantil went into trading the June contract but nonetheless Really really yes. Unusual things so where we are now with The oil price When we last Did this together on Wednesday. The price at settled that day at thirteen seventy eat up two dollars and twenty one cents so beginning to climb its way out of the trough a little bit and then Yesterday the price gained another two dollars and seventy two cents to sixteen fifty today. Things slow down a little bit of forty four cents at sixteen ninety four. Now I will say this in the after regular market trading It's been inching up a little bit more so we'll have to see whether that holds or whether something will happen over the weekend to wipe that out but So far so good albeit slowly. The Dow Jones predictably has been on the rise for last several days When we were here on Wednesday it had finished about twenty. Three thousand four seventy six and was up about four hundred fifty seven points Yesterday it finished at twenty two thousand five fifteen was up about thirty nine and a half points and today it resumed a A stronger climate was up two hundred sixty points at twenty. Three thousand seven seventy five so there is some optimism in the market. There continues to be hoped that things are going to improve Not only from cove in nineteen basis overall as affects the whole national economy but also Some hope for the oil sector so the to remain relatively tied together. Now that having been said we've had an interesting week with a few other things Let me look at my notes here. there's interesting situation where the Kuwaitis came out Yesterday and said that they are going to actually begin their OPEC plus cuts ahead of schedule ahead of the first of They See I don't know how much they said they were going to cut back by or if they did at all but it all specifically how much they were going to cut it was more of a statement of. Right. We're GONNA go ahead. You know internship here. I mean that could be five or ten thousand barrels a day and what you know. What difference does that make a so you? The devil is in the details but I think the intention was to embarrass the Saudis. Just a little bit and say hey. Look we're GONNA be statesman even if you aren't I think that was the intent so we'll see but We had that little interesting. Divide crop up within OPEC itself We had another interesting thing here. You know we. We continue to monitor the Railroad Commission Over the next week or so little over a week as they grind along. I think that's a good description as they grind along toward their next meeting on the fifth of May You know they established this blue ribbon task force and a lot of questioning going on as to whether this is going to be effective at all because number one. You've got so many entities involved. You've got six different associations that supposedly going to guide this task or see what how there's going to be any cohesive Decision Making and research going on in this group Secondly they've only got two weeks When was the last time that you ever saw governmental entities and frankly you know associations no knock in the associations but they're not used to moving that quickly? I just don't know two weeks is enough now. Did they specifically say that they would have the commission's work done in two weeks? I didn't really get that impression. Dog I got the impression I heard Wayne Christian allude to them coming back in two weeks to the fifth of May meeting and coming back with some recommendations as to what to do or not to do he. He wants to move quickly and come up with something. He referred if I went back and looked at some of the notes. I've got here on what he's said directly. He said he wants them to move quickly and to leave no stone unturned and to to look at everything. That's possible but that they've got to do it super quick because the situation demands it. Now you remember we had Ryan certain one of the other commissioners who said you don't have this kind of time period forget the force. You don't have the time and that by not making a decision on Tuesday. They were making a decision. You know not to make a decision But that it wasn't good from a timing standpoint so I don't know Yeah that was Kinda. Why my impression was that? It was the the biggest punch since gusts field goal kicking. You'll the way Ryan Sydney reacted to the suggestion. Because I I think that maybe you know. My cynical mind was tracking along with those thinking. Wait could be weeks and weeks and weeks before a commission is fully formed producers recommendations. But hopefully we'll be proven wrong. Well it was my impression based on the way that the Wayne Christian Phrase things and in the overall character what. He said that they had reached this decision before having the meeting on Tuesday and apparently had everyone in place to go ahead and start move. The that was that was my take on it. So THEM NATE. Some the organizational maneuvering upfront however to get this group of people to come to some consensus on various things in two weeks. I I just don't know but if you remember I was sitting. Who was not impressed in in? Who really questioned whether they needed to take the and it was only going to delay the pain so to speak for the industry. And then you had Christie critic the other commissioner on the other hand who basically just kind of sat there and Seemed to be just fine with it wasn't Particularly worried about the timing. So the three commissioners themselves are all sitting in my estimation. It's slightly different places along the time line here and so it's going to be interesting to see how this works out. Well I know that we take pains on this show to not try to speculate. As to where we think the individual commissioners will vote. But I think we've said it before and I think you'd agree. That is pretty clear. Where commissioners sitting in critic sit on the issue? So I guess it will just be I'm really looking forward to seeing what Chairman Christians. Commission comes up with. And how how he feels about it and if it is in track with whatever he's wanting to do well that's true an in we have to give them all the benefit of the doubt and that was many many years ago that to the former president. Gerald Ford made the statement. Never say never when they Proposed that he'd be running mate with Ronald Reagan So odd things can happen. You never know how people may swing at the last moment so we need to give them all benefit of the doubt that having been said there are indications of where at least two of the commissioners are setting positionally at the moment. Yup So we'll have to say now You know we've got this situation with Canadian oil output that. We haven't talked a whole lot of alcohol which we need to be 'cause in other Canadians Particularly Alberta have been talking about Weiming to participate in some kind of Mutual reduction cut deal some cooperative effort Which would they say they'd like to have Texas and Oklahoma North Dakota Maybe Louis Louisiana. Maybe not but states like that. Maybe Mexico Work with Alberta and They've hinted that they'd like to have Mexico participate. But I'm a little doubtful about that. But anyway they'd like to see at least a two country solution to the production situation some coordinated cut and so in line with that. We have some numbers that are floating around. There are some predictions from more than one source that Canada's production could easily drop fifteen percent this year overall. I'm I might even say that might be a little bit Light in terms of an estimate might be more than that Oil Sands Right now are more than sixty percent of the total country production and we know what condition the oil sands are in at present and most of those projects in average break-even price of fifty. Two dollars a barrel. So you've got sixty percent of the country's production on these fifty two dollars a barrel to function and so that's obviously going to take a big out of the oil sands and if you take the oil sands down or at least part of it down. I think you're going to cut more than fifteen percent production now. The oil production average in Canada last year was four point two million barrels a day. Roughly we know that for a fact because we get our numbers from our friends at the Canadian Association Petroleum Producers Were pretty confident in at number now If you cut fifteen percent We've heard numbers that the production drops six hundred thousand barrels a day. Well if you cut fifteen percent is more than that. It's more like about six hundred thirty thousand barrels. A day that would re Knock the country down to an average of three point six million per day for this year. But I'm telling you the longer that this Shortfall in demand continues and the longer it is until production. Our demand begins to pick up in production as is able to be absorbed. You gotta wonder if then average isn't going to come lower than three point six million I'd have to think the market factors will intervene and unfortunately make that number higher. I know that they're already having to suspend some shipments down to the US simply because there's no demand for that really heavy sour oil that we actually need for for funding purposes so Yeah it's GonNa get worse for better for Friends of North Whale and they already had the problem before. All of this latest cycle started. They already had the problem of trying to get more oil out of the country by railroad tank. Car If you remember and that was sort of a mixed result What they were trying to do there now. Speaking of railroad tank cars one other thing to mention before we finish for the day. And that is. I saw this in one news item. Yesterday I've got to go back and research more and we can talk about it more on Monday. One of the more intriguing if not somewhat bizarre ideas floated around is to start storing oil and railroad tank cars. But you know I listened to that and I say well there could be some fundamental problems with that. Not not the least of which is where you're going to put all the tank cars. You're going to string them along sightings along the main lines all over the country and aren't those targets for problems either sabotage and or lightning strikes or who knows what else so you know. I Like I say I haven't gone through. Examine this Idea thoroughly yet but it's just worth mentioning that people are looking out of the box all kinds of Unusual ideas try to solve the immediate problem. Yeah and you know. That's one of the things it's always. Funny when people want to protest pipelines. When they they do that the unintended consequences that we have a end up with a very large inventory of railroad cars. Rate A store oil because we can't ship by pipeline so we don't have to cover much more dangerous railcars are than than pipelines. But in fact this morning I saw one of the. Us pipeline operators was working on a way to use his pipeline capacity as storage. That's very interesting. Pipeline operators are concerned about people loading up their pipelines with oil. That doesn't have a destination and so they're they're implementing strategies to keep people from doing that and then this other one I guess it kind of figured out wealth oils. Not Moving anywhere might as well make some money off of storing it now. I explore that some more Monday. I'll find the thing that that reminds me. One other thing. Real quick The situation in Venezuela continues to deteriorate. And that's something. People need to keep in mind as imagine if Venezuela were fully functioning and in better shape and throwing even more production on the market. So you have to be thankful in an odd way that we don't have that output right now and what's even more interesting is trump administration here in the last day or so has tightened the screws even more basically taken away the waiver that Chevron hand to continue to work down there so basically for the moment Chevron is done in Venezuela Yep and Halliburton said that they were shutting everything down today as well as a result of that and Looks like the company was mentioning was energy transfer. Lt RUN BY BILLIONAIRE Kelsey Warren. All right yes. Three of storage space on his conduit to store more crude. We'll have to. We'll have to take a little more time to look at that and we can Yeah we'll talk on Monday for sure. Yeah okay well with that Kurt. Thank you for being with us as always It's been a challenging week and I. I think we're up for another one so look forward to talking to you again real soon all right. Thanks Cameron. Thanks for listening. To the daily brief on the world oil podcast network. If you have any questions or comments on the program please. E Mail editorial at World Oil DOT COM and. Check the show notes for more information about today's episode. Don't forget to subscribe either on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast also be sure to visit world oil dot com for more information about today's stories and sign up for our free daily newsletter.

Cameron Wallace Kurt OPEC Oil Daily daily brief world oil magazine Venezuela World Oil DOT commissioner Alberta It Ryan Sydney daily review
Going Strapless with Bootstrap Brewing

Beer Guys Radio Craft Beer Podcast

43:27 min | 11 months ago

Going Strapless with Bootstrap Brewing

"This episode and every episode of the beer guy's radio show is brought to you by ironmonger. Bruin visit ironmongery taproom in marietta georgia or online at ironmonger brewing dot com. Opened up a tab. Grab a seat and pour a pint. It's time for the beer. Guy's radio show free beer brewery dedicated to the art science and enjoyment of craft beer. What we got now here are your host tim. Dennis and brian hewitt and welcome to the guy's radio show. We are broadcasting for the beer radio studios in marietta georgia and this week. We're talking with bootstrap brewing company. I am tim denison with me. As always is my good friend and co host. Brian hewitt. Hey tim joining us. Today we have stephen leslie kazoo the owners of bootstrap brewing company. We're gonna talk about their incredible expansion in two thousand twenty numerous award winning beers and their new non alcoholic brews guys. Thanks for joining us. Yeah thanks slot. We're excited absolutely absolutely. So how is the weather there in colorado. And i'm starting to that because we just snow in short reportedly. Wow that's crazy now. it's a little cold. Today we had snow up in the mountains. Six thousand six thousand feet and above shirt over the next week. They're seeing high fifties so yes and see. That's gorgeous beautiful. What's the allegation. Over there. In woodstock tim as thirty six hundred feet or so but no i actually didn't know it was snowing here until i've got a little echo show on my desk and i looked down. It's got the snow. Mo like snow and they said flurries. And when i went out the next morning there were a town of six. Snowflakes barely got out of the driveway. Apparently made it tally. Lizard down there and buckhead. Did you guys survive okay. I looked out the window and told alexa that she was a darn liar. Liar that there's nothing out there you're a liar. It was dark. i didn't see it. Was that a snow day for you guys. If we've got another six flakes that what if we done that it would probably shut us down there that would have been accidents everywhere you know. What the the traffic was really really bad coming in. Wondering if that's follows that from all is that we had Good stuff bryan. Were coming back in thanksgiving week. Just behind a stair. Good times man a different this year for everybody. that's share. Lastly how how is your thanksgiving. Did you do it the same as you normally do. Now this service little different. The parents wanted to stay home with the bid restrictions. We just all kind of played it safe and we hunker down and did our own Thanksgiving it was a pot roast. Which was okay okay. Lot of whiskey south good. Yeah can't argue with that. At all brian. I got together. We have a brewer friend. That's that's been around. The joins us as well so it was just a small thing but brian's wife is from malaysia yes and she's hosted thanksgiving before which and she's a wonderful cook but you're not going to get a traditional thanksgiving dinner if you go to her house. There's likely to be fried rice or something mixed in the she loves the holidays. Absolute loves them. Yeah but you're gonna want beating some indian food or some malaysian food or like that for sure. I had to host this year. And i did a turkey. They did a ham and we had a pretty good old traditional american thanksgiving dinner so it was a good time and some good beers brian. The yes there were a number of could. What was your favorite holiday beer. We had thanksgiving boy. It's that's a hard call because we kinda did a drink seller except it was drink. Tim keller i think it was probably that helms deep honestly that was so gunman. Kevin was errands berry healthy. We also opened up. I forget the year was at twenty fifteen black tuesday. Two thousand fifteen. He was nineteen point nine percent and so so. That was a big boy. That's just sip a limit. We actually still have some of that left a week later. I court put it in the fridge. It's not kylie. Yeah that's it. It's twenty percent so like nothing's gonna live in it in right right so so leslie you'd said it was kind of a whisky sour and pot roast kinda night for you guys right. Yeah this year. That's what we did. But normally i like to run over and guests on avery rump. ken. Avery is just a few lions. Again we're good friends with those guys. But oh my gosh. So good with pumpkin pie. Just poor little shots in it. Like it's a little brandy or something there you go sell delicious. See georgia are ab cap. Here's fourteen percent so a lot of the big stuff that that every does we don't get in here and we talked to The bureaucracy travis rupp i think is yes yes octa travis rupp over there and he sent us a few one was that i always literally always forget the name but it's a chocolate covered cherry trying to. They're just so so good. Yeah they're just so good. I think he'd do a coffee on twitch. That's like sixteen or fifteen percent just devastating because our campus at fourteen. I can't get it here without writing state. Oh you're going to have to come visit. They have so many. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah yeah. I really want to get out there you know. I haven't gone outside of denver all my. I've been denver a lot. I used to have a klein out there that i'd visit two or three times a year and i. It's been about five or six years since. I had them as a client so i don't get out as much and i think twenty seventeen now is my last. Colorado trip also do always stayed in the denver area. I am you very overdue. It's been about two thousand seven for me. I drove across country and went through denver. Yeah it's a whole new world out. There is like nothing that is currently of interest to me right now. -solutely yeah and then we popped over good friends at goodwood celebrated their third anniversary. Brian over there had a few beers. They did a collaboration with stan. Her autonomous they did beat logger That was just fantastic. Like three and a half percenter So just a really great beer in their killing it over there man. I'm fans of of all. They do exit simulation. Especially without bays thousand. Just without any the decorative stuff attitude fantastic amazingly good stout and Absolutely worth the trip over there to pick some there and good people there too. Oh sure group of folks who always have a good time. Absolutely well tim. I think it's time for us to get to the beers the week. Now it's time for our beer's of the week brought to you by the net craft beer and barbecue in downtown kennesaw georgia. The next kennesaw dot com. Brian has always. We've got a great sampling beers to get into zehr we've got. We've got a special one here that the new belgium was kind enough to send us a piano keys and this is one that they collaborate with our friend al sharpton and it is a a beer. That's it's a beer with a 'cause man. It's meant to kind of spread the word out there to raise awareness about inclusion in craft beer for everyone. So they did this l. Done this with him before as draft only release and Pretty cool we've got chance now. Only in the atlanta area is where you can get this but piano keys is an imperial stout which chocolate and vanilla it's available around the atlanta area right now in very limited quantities but we appreciate them sending this out to us check it out like good beer for good cause al sharpton good dude. So it's i'm drinking right now. Actually and i will say this. It's an imperial stout. It's a little light. Let align for an imperial stout but that chocolate vanilla definitely flavors on point at this point. So that's that's one a special beer there. We also had a visit with creature comforts in the week. They were kind enough to bring some samples and we will be sampling there. A creature comforts and green. She collaboration living on the sun. Another triple ip brian. So that's one from the hashtag drinker seller was got grassroots donut. Disco twenty eighteen. Ooh was a cinnamon toast. Donut stout soon. We'll get into that. One definitely should be a good time so brian. What's happening this week in the news. What's in the news. The beer guys have the scoop time for headlines all right so with things tightening down to combat the spread of covid nineteen. We've seen it's there's a spike in not good news. It's not surprising that there are also layoffs in the news to start. Founders is laying off eighty nine workers in grand rapids and detroit for an indefinite amount of time. But they intend to be temporary and they plan to bring back on in less than six months if things improve and it's possible for them to do that. This is the second round of layoffs for founders. This year though. This round isn't as severe as the laughs. In april which saw one hundred sixty three people get cuts also in the news in terms of who got nine kasey over an oregon laying off. Twelve percent of their workforce citing saw sales in the on premise business. A lot of the state's bars and restaurants have been closed. They've remain closed since probably march and other governor imposed additional restrictions in recent weeks. So things aren't going to get better in terms of on premise sales soon. So we're not likely to see that change So i think we've talked about this before but according to craft beer brewing business dot com yuengling has begun work on their beer. Tourism expansion plans in tampa. They officially broke ground a few weeks ago and the new campus is scheduled to open in early. Twenty twenty two. The grade to their current facility will include a state of the art pilot brewing system. A new restaurant serving fresh local cuisine digital interactive history artifacts in advertising memorabilia and recreational concepts billion and beer garden and an onsite. Fifteen story hotel. So it's going to be massive. Did you get any oxygen through that news story by. Yes very lightheaded. You tell a little white. There i did. I really made happen. Fall some renderings of that ying-ling facility there in man it's It looks looks like a disney malt. Disney i think maltese nee of is already got that moniker. So i don't think they can use it so a should be a good time while you're listening to the beer guy's radio show. We do need to take a quick break but we'll be back very soon with more from bootstrap birth if you love beer barbecue and football than the nest and kennesaw. Georgia is the place to get your fix. Featuring forty eight taps including unique and wear craft beer wine and more plus some of the best barbecue around the spacious patio is a great place to catch the games. This fall where you can cheer on your team while you enjoy some wings and don't forget about the delicious pork and chicken and my personal favorite. The nachos remember for the best and craft beer and barbecue. Make your home at the nest and kennesaw georgia. Brian and tim the beer guys. If you're like us know launcher dinners complete without a partner to of craft beer which is why truck and tap in downtown woodstock alfreda and duluth are always on our list. Tim why do they call it. Truck and tap will. The top part is easy brian. They've got eighteen of them as for the truck part. That's where it gets interesting truck and tat features your favorite atlanta area food trucks. You're getting a different menu. Every day truck and tap in downtown woodstock alfa reta and duluth truck untapped dot com. Let him know that the beer guy sent you. Follow the beer guys on facebook twitter and instagram things. Now back to the beer guy's radio show welcome back to beer guy's radio show remember. All episodes are available on demand. So if you missed the broadcast get the podcast. Your guests who is available on all popular and unpopular podcasting apps. Now let's get back to bootstrap brewing company. You steve. I'm gonna start off something we meant and earth segment and something that we ran into on the break to styles. Were seeing a lot. More of lately are triple as in italian pills nurse so as bootstrap are they in on that action. You know we're not in on the triple. Ipa's right now. okay. Italian pulls nerves. That sounds great. I mean my background is italian. That's you know. But those are things that i'm drinking like moretti or or whatever so i haven't had an opportunity to drink true italian crafts pills nurse. I'm intrigued by that. But we've got our own pills. Ner style beers that we put on tap. We've got a bohemian toes. Ner that we call check may nice. We've got nineteen fifty-six golden ale which is an aol but it's pulls ner malts in actually two years in a row one silver and gold at j b f not this past year but the previous couple of years so we did that style of beer but what. We're really playing with our what you guys were talking about in the beginning. Those more imperial stoute's since you guys are at fourteen percent the one that we got that we're releasing right now is called zeus imperial stout and it's at thirteen and a half percent very again in japan. We knew we'd be on your show. We knew that georgia was fourteen percent. So we'll send you a time. We appreciate it. Yeah and it's a beautiful beer. Parabola from firestone was walking. That was one of my favorites. And you know it's limited release. I couldn't get enough of it. So i decided to make my own. And so we've got the zeus imperial that we're releasing over the next two week and it's like i said thirteen and a half percent imperial coffee. Stout aged woodford reserve bourbon barrel. It's just frigging delicious and it's you know how you you can pour one of these thick beers into a brandy glass and you tip it glass. Yes this is so. That's kind of the style. Were going after right okay. We may have to mark this episode. Nsf w. bryan. yeah so thick. That's it you've been working on that for a while too. I think i'd i'd look through untapped. And i heard an interview that you did sound like you've been working on that particular stout for like a year or something like that right. Yeah and that's been That's actually been sitting in barrels for about a year. We released I came now. I think it was not barely fit writer. Bottling here next week is barely scam. But yet that's kind of our mo we don't make a bunch of beers and see what sticks on the wall. I i'm very deliberate in the style of beer and also making sure that when it's ready to be released release it and sometimes it takes eight months to a year for me to to make a beer like our new england. Ipa the lush puppy. It's took me a year to make twelve batches and dial it and until finally was like whoa baby. This is this is good. This is the one that is it. And i'm proud to release it yup talking about that. Ab the cap. It's something that we've had discussions on and off. I think it was. What was it. Two thousand seven brian somewhere. Maybe even later that a we we just got above six percent. I i think it might have actually six thousand six. Six six percent wasn't so long ago that we were still kept at six percent in the arguments of always been things like you have kids going out and getting these. These high abebe bears look. There's not a kid going gonna go by thirty dollars. Seven fifty to get ripped up on. He's going to get these four loko yet or is gonna get these cheap vodka or something. He's not he's not going to doing a thirty dollar seven fifty. That's a deal. Don't you mean five hundred amounts. That's right yeah do the new normal you know what in some of these beers like the black tuesday we're talking about. That's nearly a twenty percent beer. But i'm gonna drink of four ounce pour of it and that's enough but it so decadent enrich and boozy. The booze is a nice component of it. I wish we could do here in georgia. It would be nice. It would be and there's some releases we just don't get here at all because of that. So what happens now. Steve unless you both came from a high tech industry is at cracked decided. Let's make a brewery. Yeah mean our career started in the high tech industry. Leslee bought me a homebrew kit. Years ago in my background is engineering night. I love the creative components of a brewing. And you know it's like being an artist or chef you've got this amazing palette of ingredients and you get to play and try things and so that was kinda my creative outlet and it wasn't until mike company got bought out by another company and we didn't know if i was going to have a job for a while and we said you know this is kind of the catalyst that got us going in thinking about. We always wanted to have control of our destiny. And what would we do. And i've been homerun making some good beer and we thought hey. Would we ever consider opening up burry and so that started journey for us so you got started back in two thousand twelve rights with with the brewery. Yes yeah so. We opened the baru in two thousand twelve. We kind of finally decided in two thousand eleven that we were going to do this and we and we spent five years research prior to that we signed up as brewery and planning with the brewers association's when we could go to the craft beer conferences and reduce. We really did our research. We were like this. Sounds like really cool. Industry just wanted to make sure. Is it really as cool as we think. And along the way we were able to you know speak with just amazing people and confirmed that yes is an amazing cool industry in some of the people that lesley's talking about i mean if you think about it so we opened in two thousand twelve and the journey whiz five years prior so we were talking to people you know two thousand seven two thousand eight and the people were talking to were like the doug. Oh dell's and the dale touches from oskar blues enron right and they were smaller back then so you know it was just kinda oh man you gotta get in but if you get in you know. We did a lot of stuff up front so when they started. There was a lot of forgiveness in the styles of beer. They brought out maybe wasn't as consistent and but all of us you know yourselves oss. We were like wow. These are really cool beers and and the one common i got from everybody was. Hey man. If you wanna get in has great will support you will do collaborations and all this but your consistency in your quality week has to be up at our level you know. Don't don't be that burry that comes in and just things are going to make a lot of money and you just put poor beer out this draw. Get on my level exactly. Yes so that was we. Were like yeah that we can do. This don't open a burrito. Make money we're still trying to figure out how to pay ourselves but day talking about the help you get in the industry. We were talking about this. The other day with like online forms in facebook and different forms of really make things useful but even as a hobo. You'll go into a group and you'll ask a question in wayne wobbles shana sullivan mid steel. You know on stan hieronymus. These guys will give you answers. It's really amazing that we have this these elite level people in this industry that really the every man has access to yeah hurting impress. Good stuff. I love it. I mean it's always been like that ever since we started talking to these guys when we started. It's funny because dale from oscar. Blues was just down the street from us and we knew him because our boys played baseball together. And i'm like oh man you know i'm gonna have to tell them that. I'm starting brewery down the street from among he's gonna he's going to be. That may and i called them and he's like oh this is awesome. You know if you ever need anything if you need with ingredients if you need. Some technical assistance might brewers are always available it's collaborate. let's have fun. So that's that's what we love about this. And and especially coming from the high tech industry where everything is nondisclosure agreements in confidentiality agreements. And i can't tell you anything or my lawyers gonna sue you know. It was just really refreshing than down to earth. And that's why we're in it and beer's not like unless you use the word bells in any of your bruins even knows spells. You're listening to beer. Guy's radio show. We do need to take another break. But we'll be back very soon with more from bootstrap borough you know. We love good. Beer and athletic brewing makes non alcoholic. Beer stands shoulder to shoulder with their boozy brethren with a fraction of the calories and certified organic. It's a great beer to enjoy anytime. Athletics got new bruise. Like serve as a athletic a just in time for summer. Check out the full selection at athletic brewing dot com use code. Bg twenty five for twenty five percent off your first order and us customers get free. Nationwide shipping athletic brewing brew without compromise craft beer forged a reverence for tradition and new styles. Start revolution ironmonger brewing. The brewers at ironmonger brewing pride themselves at being masters of barely edged. Poppy and sour beers. The invite you to their taproom in marietta georgia to taste and see also visit their barrel room for an intimate. Drinking experience with great live entertainment. Keep up to date on all things. Ironmonger by liking them on facebook ironmonger brewing establishing a new standard in craft beer beer guys on facebook twitter and instagram. Sure too much worse for under such heavy sedation now. Back to the beer guy's radio show the beer for radio show. I want to give a quick shout out to one of our great radio affiliates k. e. n. n. thirteen ninety am and ninety two point one fm in farmington. Catch beer radio k. e. n. n. Every saturday at ten pm. Now let's get back to our talked with bootstrap. Bruin are talk. Brian topsoil esl. Stephen leslie we want to talk to you about your growth because really A great story. You guys have grown through two thousand twenty and like bryan new segments suggested That's not the case for everyone you know we've seen you're in georgia close we see layoffs in and unfortunately some second round layoffs for certain companies but twenty twenty has been a good year for you and growth. I is that correct. And if what do you attribute that to. It's true and and i think a lot of it has to do with the solid beers that we put out there and also we've got a great distributorship Partnership and a lot of it has to do with leslie. And i were really the only sales people so to speak and so there was a lot of growth dude crew word of mouth. That was organic. We were the ones that were out in. The fields really selling our products and it was a lot of fun but as soon as we signed up with some distributors that were passionate about our beer and champion. the our. that's really when we started to see some growth and then this year we partnered with an investor who is well known in the industry and his name's dale from oscar blues and It got a little parallel or something he does. I believe yeah little pills. He's got a little bit of this and you know we talked about earlier. He's a friend of ours. He supported us all the way from the beginning We never asked for anything from him. You know as we grew over the past eight years there was some synergy between us and there was some thoughts and whatnot and he got to the point where he had the opportunity where he could invest in us and he jumped in and he's been a great mentor. Great guy with just incredible vision and forecast in in we just had a great synergy and we're having a lot of fund so what he put into our business allowed us to get more. For manners upgrade our lab hire few more people in a byproduct of that is we. Were finally able to hire a couple salespeople and start talking about getting into chains and these sales people have experienced with the chain side and so now we're slowly getting into a bigger piece of the market than we were doing before and so we have that growth. I mean when you look at us versus some of the bigger guys the guys who are hundred thousand barrels on above There's maybe their stagnant or growing a little bit or you know coming down a little bit but for somebody like us. Who's at this year will be closed to nine ten thousand barrels. A growth. Spurt is pretty good to go from seven thousand barrels to nine or ten thousand barrels and projected to go to fifteen thousand barrels. You know there's some movement there that for smaller breweries is maybe easier to do than the larger breweries right. 'cause at large murray could increase their barrel production each year your entire yearly amount and it wouldn't be it wouldn't take a small percentage of what they're doing exactly what two hundred and fifty thousand barrels to two hundred and sixty thousand like. Okay yes that was the right. Yeah exactly so now. It looks like your growth in the wholesale channels was even pre covert. I know some some places of seen some success there but was that typically from out of the gate. Was that where you saw. Have you ever been more taproom focus because that seems to be the place to be. These days are tantrums importance but our vision is always been wholesale. And let's let's put beer in cans and let's let's put it out into the market so you know. We started out in twelve hundred square feet tapper. Only eight and a half years ago on day one. It was like a hundred percent of our revenue was from the tap room. And now you fast forward. And now we're were more wholesale driven because there's a there's a finite amount of money in revenue that you can get based on. How many chairs yavan. oh in. Currently there is no indoor see colorado. Okay in georgia. You can do what you can go out naked. Pack for exactly and they don't care advocate though they do space them out so you can't pack them quite as tight. It's not quite as many chairs. Before but i mean we're so thankful that the we have wholesale. I mean in these times with these restrictions that are affecting our taproom revenue. If we were taproom only or taproom heavy this would just be so devastating jour- in kind of to tag onto that so starting in january. We were starting to see that bump you know every year we have any business reviews with our distributors. Hey witter our goals Stephen leslie guys are leasing next year. Let's put a plan together and january february march. We were man. We were exceeding our goals and then march hit. We were shut down for march till about intimate or something like that. That was definitely devastating for taproom half a month of our wholesale but then all of a sudden it exploded because like everybody else. We were hoarding liquor in our house. Sure yeah beer. Yup so you know the wholesale side went up. I'm luckily we didn't have to let anybody go on the production side. We're pretty lean and mean we have some brilliant. People were pretty efficient in our process. I've got some hard-working guys thing. We're all passionate and we're all just young man. We love this and so we're surviving by again with all this addition of The sales team and going through another annual business review were were projecting growth again and its markets that we haven't been in and we released to new products two weeks before the covid desk soccer. Yeah right jeff timing here we go and everybody's like yeah and then boom and it got shut down so we couldn't really get that out there. It was our sparkle issues seltzer and are mixed pack. And now we're going to spend the whole summer doing tastings enhance sales and pouring it at festivals. In all she. That's the thing we look at that of all the beer festivals. We've missed this year seriously. It just getting to to go out and see your friends with everybody. It's it's too bad yeah. I don't even remember what it's like to hang out with people entering beer in a public place and not be wearing weird mass. You know like eyeing people on the sly like everybody's villain they see one of those people could bring you down and you need to stay away from its soccer. I on you. Oh they do know handshakes no handbags none of that. Maybe an elbow bump maybe elbow. Bob you can do that. That's i had a meeting earlier earlier this week and They came in and push the chair like the other side of the input. Their mask on kept the distance man. It was like a like a serious plague meeting there. Man that's the way life has been most of the time you have one of those masks. That looks like you get a plague. Doctor matt should get one because we could do that. And those would be meeting appropriate. Those are harder to put onto your nose to. They are the really hard you know what those were all about. They'd actually put something in the bottom of with aroma to irreverence to to cover up the smell of all the debt. All the roddy and that seems that seems applicable. The two twenty twenty is saying this. You gotta kinda appreciate that are plague. Doesn't smell that's true. Is that where you're listening to the beer guy's radio show. We do need to take another break. But we'll be back very soon with more from stephen leslie at bootstrap brewer Have you ever thought about owning your own brewery. But don't know what it takes to get one weird storytime construction and we build breweries the most experience hands on contractors when it comes to building new breweries and taverns four expanding existing grease buildouts remodeling and additions as low as consulting and construction management. Give us a call at seven. Seven zero seven three three four three four three storytime construction. We build breweries. Follow the beer guys on facebook twitter and instagram man. You got update man now back to the beer. Guy's radio show welcome back the bear guys if you enjoy the show. Please consider supporting on patriotic. Just go to patriotdepot dot com slash. Beer guys patriots. Get cool perks. Like beer guy. Swag and commercial free episodes. Now let's get back to bootstrap brewing company. Y'all we wanted to talk to you a little bit about what you to talk about. Your beers asked but we're actually gonna start with something that We have dabbled in this year. Brian we've dabbled in the world of non alcoholic beers and we found a few that we liked. And what we call. Our doctor's orders emitting with With some non alcoholic beers But we found a few that we like but you guys actually have some innate beers available correct yeah we started releasing it in november. And we're really excited about it. Something new and. I'm not sure that i ever thought about doing an na beer in eight years ago but we've got we've got customers that for whatever reason i mean. It's crazy. I mean like fragment ladies of people who are struggling with gallup's others at an athletes all the pregnant women wanna rent a beer at subdued. Oh my gosh can either. Fear awesome frenzy. Customers struggled with gal in joe. Gosh this like. And i don't get any side effects then you've got designated drivers who come over and they're you know they're buying some of our fruity sodas and stuff and they're like man. I wish i can have a year tackle. Your and then there's the athletes that you know it's like they're they're training four race and they're like. Oh my gosh this. This will replenish electrolytes. Any beer. that's under two percent is re hydrating and so okay all right so it's a lot of stuff that's come through our tapper. You know people who are like. I don't even drink and so i love your non alcoholic beer and this summer just on a personal level. I started becoming a little bit more active. You know we talked about colorado active. It is and all this stuff. And i realized that holy smokes. I had a non alcoholic beer and that was a rehydrating beer. And if i added some electrolytes in their this could be something really cool and it's funny i was sitting in our taproom in. I'm drinking six of my neighbors beers listening to the band. And i've got a breathalyzer which i need to carry with me in the car anyways because i gotta be careful right and i'm blown into this thing after six years after each beer i'm going zero point. Zero zero point zero zero point zero. I'm like holy smokes you know. What am i drove home and ran five miles and i was like this was a test for me. Dang okay this. This is cool where your activity sounds a little drunk to me. Personally that like a triathlon watch a band drink six beers and then run run and guess what it worked. Hey it's done talking about all the people drinking the beer you you know you're absolutely right and when we were when we were advertising in a beer on here we got questions from people. It's like why are the beer guys talking about non alcoholic beer. Does anybody care about. I'll tell you what we got more emails inquiries and questions about where to get it. What it's about and all that about non alcoholic beer then probably we normally do over other beer so people are definitely interested for all the reasons you mentioned. Whether it's like for me it was a doctor said to minimize malakal in to watch. I didn't have them with. He's like yeah. Just try to control it a little bit. So if we're out having a few beers pop an enabler into the mix yep so given then we keep the party going. It's a good maintaining beverage turley. Open them up with france and like hang on. Let me make one of these into of gap out the alcohol. You know just a bit you still. You still get the feeling of drinking a beer us. Don't get the alcohol from drinking it which that's a nice thing and here's the deal too. It's not like we just got into the non alcoholic market just to get into it again. I'm the kind of person that it's gonna take me some time to make something that tastes great and it took a year to really work on this to finally get the flavor right where you wouldn't know if you're drinking my lush puppy juicy. Ip a at six point three percent or you're drinking this beer lessons zero point five percent. The flavor and the aroma is all the same. And it's a great tasting beer and it works. I love it because in the early days of beer. That wasn't the case you were drinking on a non alcoholic beer there. There are several now that we've had we've had really nice. Ip as there's a bravo's it was at the peanut butter stout that they Yeah it's delicious. it's really good so even if you want some little darker and richer it was their hidden. So i have to ask us saw that. You're adding electrolytes and minerals and things to this alcoholic beer. Yeah how do you do that without winding up tasting like vitamins. Because anything i've had that has electrolytes added like beverage. Wise is always wanted tasting. Medicinal is at hobbs at release just a lot of hops covering it. No you know. It's just the balance right. I can put a ton of electrolytes in there. And then you're gonna know it and it's just a nice balance just like when we were talking about the Lacks pineapple gold. It's a nice balance of the pineapple. You don't have to overdo it but you put enough in there and then you balance it with some post processing with hops in and stuff like that and then just make it work now. I m thinking about the energy drinks in their goal really isn't to balance it out. It's to deliver the maximum amount and make it so it's drinkable. And that's all the arab no balance center hops. i know like citrus. Kind of tones. That down on veteran the hops profile. There definitely would so so you know being a little bit more active and biking and stuff. I didn't want to drink those high energy drinks. Or whatever with a lot of electrolytes sugar. I wanted a beer. Yeah absolutely if you can get electrolytes the lawyer. Abc your hydrate. And plus you get the electrolytes. This really sounds like a win win to me. Yeah the part about exercising before so no to the band there. You're right. It's a win win win. There's a lot of what speaking a listening to the band. We noticed on your website. You offer up some music. Paris leslie responsible. Rock dick so leslie. What is your process. there you go by style. The specific beer were these parents. Come from well. I mean there's a combination. Okay so sometimes it's like. How do i feel when a drink beer other times. It's what is the name in folk and then other times it's just like oh. I just think this would be perfect with us so insane. Rice has like scorpions. Lcd see great wides and then my party next which many during that so like flock of seagulls for the non alcoholic you ran ran so far away right now. It is thunderstruck. abc but so far away. That's not alcohol with recanted. Rocky like breaking under struck and let's eight and a half percent and it's imperial red which won a couple world beer cups couple. Gb okay you guys have one. I hadn't realized until i looked at it. You guys have won a lot in considerable amount of awards sixty eight hundred sixty two hundred something like that. I think it's five sixty -gratulations that's great taste. Really cool the usa. A vir ratings just came out a week ago and every single one of our beers that we can won awards with that. I love this competition because you have to score high in taste and quality value and packaging in. It's judged by people within the industry that worked for distributors. They work for. They were stories and in our insane. Rush which is our flagship baby in our r.i.p that won one gold four taste and value and packaging and so it just took a clean sweep sweep good stops. Sweep so guys. Were just about our time if you want to keep up with what's happening with bootstrap brewing. Where should they go. Oh definitely our facebook page. You don't twitter and instagram. But we definitely do a lot of releases on facebook. I like our facebook page. Because there's a lot of me time. I take a lot of sell fees and videos gallery. Yeah it's all about me. You know what that's it. Y'all thank you so much for joining and listeners. Go to facebook and check out. Steve can get that you need right there on. Maximum steel bit awesome yellow. Thank you so much. Join us really got it. This was thanks guys. You bet well that about wraps it up for this episode of the beer guy's radio show join us next. Week is brian. It is our christmas beer. Blind tasty episode. We're going to get ten or twelve. Christmas beers blind tasting pick our favorites one of our favourite episodes of the year. We are bir guys radio on facebook twitter and instagram. Thanks for tuning in. have a great week. And don't forget to drake walk cheers.

georgia fourteen percent travis rupp brian kennesaw denver marietta woodstock brian hewitt tim denison Brian hewitt stephen leslie kazoo bootstrap brewing company Six thousand six thousand feet thirty six hundred feet al sharpton Brian avery rump tim bryan
Cereal Killers and Sticky Fingers

Happy Hour Gets Weird

47:39 min | 6 months ago

Cereal Killers and Sticky Fingers

"Are you that weirdo. Who loves weird food history. Well then this is the podcast for you. Welcome to happy hour gets weird. Hi welcome weirdos and friends are welcome back. This is happier gets weird. I'm cassie and i'm tiffany. And we talk about where chit and have drinks while we do it and we want to thank you so much for joining us for happy hour. Yes thank you thank you. Thank you mayor see. Ooh i love it. That's a little hint about what's to come in this episode. A little teaser. Okay well current crunch crunch. I don't have any hints for mine Before we get into our episode. I have to tell you this today when i was driving. Back from the grocery store The car in front of me had a personalized license plate. Which i know. I have i have issues with i. Yes so it said this. It said perfect but with no vowels right so p r f c t okay and then it said pr k. Perfect park or is it perfect prick. Oh perfect prick. Ooh either way okay. Either in the either they work for parks and recs in which case it is leslie nope or unperfect brick that needs to change his license plate back to just the standard dmv issued license plate. I also do not like personalize license plate. I think is the most nurses cystic thing that you could possibly do to advertise to people that you have a perfect prick and if you're leslie nope we know you're leslie nope we know it. We can see you Less you have a personalized plate. Then we love you and support you. Well that's no if you think it was perfect park or perfect prick. Because i need answers. I need to know. Maybe they are okay. Maybe it's like parking car park park park your car. Perfect parker perfect. Maybe i just honestly you just need to take the standard issue. Dmv license plate. I don't know why you would take time out of your day to get a specialized license plate unless it's the whale one and it donates to see life. That's it that that's the only time that we will accept this sort of situation. That is the only time so today we are drinking a cocktail for this week is a blood orange cocktail. I haven't named it yet. full transparency. I'm still. I'm still deciding on it but it's delicious and it's blood orange and for more information. Please check out our instagram. Yes it is the you know what let's just name it. Perfect brick okay done and done. So if you want a perfect prick in your life. Check out our instagram for the recipe. Yes okay so weird food history. Are you going to go. I sure lay it on me. I wanna start off by saying that. I love weird history. I feel like fifty percent of the time when i drink too much. End up about weird history. I love it and i'm here for it Source my main sources for today Article on forbes dot com and an article on history dot com. Obviously yes perfect today. I'm telling the weird story of kelloggs. Cornflakes john kellogg was born on february. Twenty six eighteen fifty two in a rural community within livingston county michigan when john was a kid. Kellogg's moved to battle creek michigan headquarters for the newly formed adventist church in eighteen sixty three because the kellogg's were devout seventh day adventists after the seventh day. Adventists so hard for me to say. This sent john along with some other young people to attend a five month course at dr russell trawls hijo therapeutic college in new jersey. John found a new interest. Although john rejected many of trawls nontraditional medical theories. The experience opened his eyes to a career in the field of medicine and more specifically health reform. So seventh day adventists are really big on healthy eating. You know natural remedy type things like they're really into taking care of their body so it's not surprising that the church would send john and other young people to the sort of a healthcare. Training is what i get. Yeah they're superintendent clean eating and whole eating not a lot of animal products or byproducts Very healthy eating lifestyle. Yeah so that's why. The church like i said sent john and these other kids to the studt to this Doctor to learn from him and kellogg also studied under other early reformers. like graham larkin. Be kohl's because of all of this. John kellogg's lifelong fascination with health and diet. Focusing on natural remedies preventative medicine and vegetarianism began at a very early age. Sounds kind of cool. Yeah and it has. Ideas obviously had this seven day. Adventists slant to them. It's kind of what got him going in this direction. Yeah by eighteen seventy three. John was the chief editorial assistant for adventist. Health reformer a monthly publication on health and dietary habits in all john kellogg wrote over fifty books and countless articles. Wow he also lectured widely arguing for the benefit of his health reforms. Calling his dietary theory. The battle creek idea which is where they live. Kellogg encouraged a diet that sales honestly kind of like hell. Oh i'm all for eating healthy but it sounds dr kellogg. I think took it to a new level. Not so cool then. I think this is more him than anything from the church. This was more him kind of ramping. It up to another level okay so his diet included no meat sparse use of eggs sugar milk and cheese and also no alcohol boo tea coffee tobacco and chocolate no coffee and chocolate or sugar or milk or meat. Oh goodness it's very. It's very limiting diet. His total health regimen which he later termed biologic living included many concepts. People still believe in today including regular exercise lots of fresh air. Correct posture sensible clothing and an intake of eight to ten glasses of water. A day what do you mean. I cannot eat a sixteen ounce rare steak wearing nipple tassels in the middle of town hall. Are you kidding me. That's actually the diet that i'm currently on mine is just full. Eight glasses of whole milk and edible underwear. That's just what you won't believe the about of weight you will lose if you have to put on nipple tassels and eat in a public forum. I mean it's just. I've lost so much weight just based on those roles alone. John also came to believe that daily animas kept the intestines clean only from disease. Okay well yeah. He is next level. Okay so i. I read this story that he went to the park and saw how many times i don't know if it was. I don't know if it was like a monkey or rang a tang or something he saw. How many times apes pooped at zoo. A and i guess they crap a lot this i. I'm sorry i don't even know how i got here. But i guess they crap a lot and because he saw that he was like i guess humans should be pooping more. Got him on this enema. Kick okay So well maybe probably just a little bit more fiber and roughage in your diet. You don't need to shove water up your app. is that what. well i think. I mean an enema could just be any kind of an entertainment is i. You full transparency. I've never actually done an enema. But i'm thinking what an enema is is like a bag of water with a to bueller piece on the end of it and you put time a peace in your cucolo and then shoot the water in there and then it comes out. Oh i was thinking just like a suppository make you know that to suppository. An enema is for some reason. I thought they were an interchange of bowl. I mean look my. I think my fbi agent has been pretty bored. The last few days. I can google it if you lay. No it's okay it's fine. It's not important this story but of course this is what we're going to focus on. Also we should say this. Our podcast is for entertainment purposes. Only we are not doctors. Oh no teachers. We are colleges journal years We are. We are barely functioning adults. So we're barely human. After after my research. I'm could probably even be considered human. I'm probably thirty percent. Maple syrup i think i might just be a bag of trash blowing in the wind. Okay so but you're thing most beautiful bag of trash i have ever seen. That is the best worst compliment i've ever received. Thank you that was actually in my vows. That's what my husband said to me. You married so most notably and this was the whole reason why i decided to this story. To be honest. John believed a diet centered on bland. Foods like cereal would lead americans away from sin one very specific sin. Okay masturbation. Oh that's right. I think that's the wrong direction that he's trying to live dolphins some fucking cornflakes okay. Because we all know. Dolphins are crazy masturbaters All right so. I have a question about kellogg and cereal and the lack of dairy. So were they eating dry cereal or were they allowed to drink. Eat it with milk. I kind of touch on that. Oh okay cool. Perfect so in eighteen. Seventy six john kellogg to take over the western health reform institute a seventh day. Adventist had founded the institute ten years earlier in battle creek to provide natural medical remedies. The institute was near closure. When john took over but with his guidance it became the most popular and famous health retreat of its time it had twenty patients when john started that ended up with seven hundred beds in all over. Two hundred thousand patients were treated at what was called the sand including henry. Ford john d. rockefeller harvey firestone j. c. penney and cw baron. They were all treated for excessive masturbation. They were at this. It's like a health retreat and resort. That the rich and famous would go to to get healthy to just better themselves. Okay okay you know like a fancy. Basically spa like a health spa but yeah trying like new groundbreaking health treatments. Just 'cause they had the money to burn yeah go there. All right got and natural remedies preventative treatments. Things like that. Okay go this. San as it was called was doing great. John was married although because he believed in living a celebrate lifestyle Even when married his marriage was more of a partnership overall things were going pretty. Great for john kellogg. Okay no sex. Running this fancy resort. He was living dream. Yeah my my dream come. True no masturbating. It sounds fantastic then. John decided to start making health food to further his age of healthy living. So as we've mentioned multiple times at this point. John kellogg believed that man's modern diets led them to carlson's john kellogg wrote highly seasoned meats stimulating sauces. Oh god and tidbits an endless variety. Excuse me dainty irritates the nerves and react upon the sexual organs dainty tidbits. Give me a boner fo. Sho dainty tidbits is my stage name season. Me baby did. And i'm season meets. That should be our new intro highly. Seasoned meats oh shit Call me season meets from now on please please. It was said that. Dr kellogg wrote about the dangers of sex and masturbation as he did about healthy living like the reason why he believed in being celebrate was because he thought that sex created disease in men. He was pretty strict about this sort of thing at at least personally. It seems so basically. John's health foods not only needed to be good for you. they also had to taste bad. Oh bland seasonless food. Yes people might. Just get fucking horny. Well i mean you know everybody knows that the more you the meet the the more orgies happen cut to cassie making dinner and just pouring full down seasoning salt honored. I mean jake cage it's like cajun and jamaican seasoning and all kinds of them. So they're just orgies all over the world that have season food. it's just a sex fest. Masturbation and sex everywhere. I don't even know how they actually can make the seasoning salts in a factory without an orgy just breaking out. I'm sorry. Chinese five spice. Are you kidding me. That one actually does make me horny. I thought i feel a little On that one like so many great inventions cornflakes was basically a mistake. Gone horribly right in eighteen. Ninety four john and his brother will were experimenting with a batch of boiled wheat yelm and left it out on the counter and just kind of forgot about it after a few days the pair found their forgotten. Batch put the dry dough through rollers and baked resulting flakes interesting and although kellogg intended to use his new invention for chewing exercises because why not just sounds like the kind of weird shit he'd make. We'll do dry bland food you would need to be good at chewing or it's you're gonna choke you're done. There was another thing that he thought. There was health benefits to excessive chewing. I i couldn't go off on all tangents of like random. He also believed like babs at different temperatures. Like i couldn't. I couldn't go off. And all the tangents. So the san guests soon realize that the wheat flakes were even better with milk. Oh who who is a rebel. That discovered that well. Because i believe the first serial that was created was just a little bit before this i believe it was shredded. Wheat was the first serial that was created so the idea was kind of in the back of people's minds although John wasn't really kind of aiming for the milk spin. Well yeah. I mean it's pretty it. It's it is sensual milk. Slow slow pour. Milk is a milk. It is promiscuous and it is enticing and it gets the people going i'm going to try to dub and some sexy music over the using that to be guest do it. So after the success of what they call toasted wheat flakes tons of imitators flooded the market with new versions of breakfast cereals. One cereal was created by a former sand patient. Charles w. post who was their biggest competitor and post was clearly inspired by his time at the sand because when he stayed there he couldn't afford the fees so he paid his way by working in the kitchen so he was like up from up close and personal with the cereal make so it was very obvious. That post cereal. Yeah wouldn't have happened if he had an estate at kellogg's resort. What wait what they call it. Health spa multiple cyril makers wasn't a bad thing for americans however who loved all the cereal options Just a little side note. This was a really great time for cereal. For a few reasons. The boom and industrialism caused people to have to eat a fast and convenient breakfast the less farmers who could spend a little bit more time at home eating breakfast. More people are rushing to work Also prior to this healthy eating trend. People were eating huge breakfasts And they were just eating whatever they wanted like. They talked about having stake in cake for breakfast. Steak 'n cake. Sounds pretty fucking bad. It was just people were eating whatever they would have for dinner for breakfast. smith towns. amazing. If i saw someone eating steak in cake i would immediately assume that they were insane. I don't know if it was like a meal of steak cake but it was just like whatever you had leftover or whatever or cake just what was in the fridge. Whatever for whatever yeah and people were feeling the effects of eating heavy. It was basically an epidemic of indigestion like people talked about it constantly. People were not feeling great because they were just kind of eating. Whatever the hell they wanted right. So basically cereal was the perfect solution to a multitude of american issues Unfortunately the successive kellogg's cereal and the sanitarium didn't prevent other issues from a rising Will kellogg john's brother Never had a very good relationship with his older brother. It seems like john was a tireless workhorse and considered his younger brother lazy. John as we can all kind of pick up by now also had extremely high standards for living a moral life. Yes some say. He was a fanatic. We can all agree on that. And i'm sure that nobody including will could live up to his high standards. Right will want it to take their cereal into another direction. He saw the success. That post was having post. Cereal was so popular and basically will want her to piece of that serial pie like he wanted to get in on that shit right and john didn't really wanna change has health food. He didn't want to add things to it to make it more appealing to people. He didn't really care about making a ton of money off the cereal he would even tell people how they could make it at home. He just really wasn't interested in breaking into the market like that so we'll start at his own cereal company. Aptly named kellogg's no. I did not know that. He chose the rooster as the company mascot. Because will like that. The welsh word for rooster. Which i'm assuming it's pronounced. Kyle log sounded like his last name. Oh my goodness and being the fun. One will added sweeteners and flavour enhancers to his kelloggs. Cornflakes cereal he also began an aggressive marketing campaign that changed the way companies marketed. Their products soon kellogg was a household name and the rest as they say is history so the next time you're enjoying a bowl of cereal. Remember that its creation stem from a man's dislike or maybe even fear of masturbation. Oh my goodness that was so pardon the pun juicy. I did not know that will swooped in and basically created an empire from johns lack of The anything good well. They pretty much had created the cereal together. I know that it was probably started. Because obviously john was big into the health food trends but they they pretty much invented the cereal together and i just think that will basically saw this huge opportunity and john wasn't interested in it so why not. I think that they had disputes. After the kellogg's company got started. I am not sure how their lives together ended but I think that sometimes if you see an opportunity you just have to fuck and go for it. And john would've never put sugar on a serial anyways we all know that I mean obviously sugar is just fucking sex dust basically it is it is the ultimate a little bit extra onto my coffee into my hair in the morning whenever just to get me going i mean i love it. That he was like yeah. I see an opportunity here and we're going to go big or go home and masturbate. So i feel like that is. I did not know that. I did not know that. And now if you're ever on jeopardy you'll know why there's a rooster on the box. Yes that was amazing. Thank you so much for telling that story. You're welcome well not so much switching gears because i also in covering the well. It's not really the history of it but a fantastic history of another breakfast condiment. Not exactly food maple syrup. I will say that. Maple syrup probably doesn't make people horny. Oh it for sure does oh okay. Well i'm just saying personal experience. I thought it was in your story. Not just a personal opinion. Wow okay. I'm sure that these people in this story have had sex in their like. Okay anyway let me just get to it. So what is in this twisted tale of pure canadian maple syrup well the nectar of the gods. I'm certain that maple syrup kim before. Miracles save relationships. There is nothing that it can't do in fact at times. I probably have more maple syrup running through this temple of a body. Then i do water. And i'm fine with that. That's alley like but back to the story about to tell. We have a syrup cartel assert black-market barrel runners rebellious independent syrup tappers and the biggest heist in canadian history value that eighteen million in liquid gold from the french canadian hills. Also perhaps maybe you might hear bad french canadian accent and many butchering the french names. So buckle up buttercup. Did you know that. The price of syrup per barrel is higher than crude oil coming out of saudi arabia. I did not know that it is super expensive. Imagine if the beverly hillbillies would have tapped into maples instead of oil next fucking level rich so maple tapping can be an inconsistent business. Attackers income is based on what the season yields so in nineteen sixty six a group of rappers. That's autocorrect maybe. They did ramp. I don't know but tappers got together and decided to form a maple syrup syndicate in quebec. They call themselves the federation of quebec maple syrup producers or f p q for short. The idea was to make maple syrup tapping distant and profitable business but like with most things with with good intentions can quickly turn into a powerful maple syrup gardell dominating seventy percent of the world's pure maple syrup supply it's a slippery slope the f. b. q. Wanted to create a large reserve of maple syrup. They if if they experienced a low yielding spring they would sell from their reserves stabilizing costs of sir to beat the inconsistent pricing of the competition south of the border which is us in the united states. Make sense though yes to build this reserve. However they implemented strict regulations the tappers in quebec had to abide by maple producers in the quebec area are required to join the fda q. No questions they have to join. Then they're required to send a specific amount of maple syrup. They have tapped from their trees on their property. No less no more than the f. b. q. inspects taste and grades the syrup the fda q. Then sells portion of that syrup and they store the rest in the reserve out of every barrel they keep fifty four dollars off the top no matter what they sell and what they put in the reserve and this is for advertising testing grading selling it consider attacks or processing fee if you will however tappers only paid for the syrup the reserved cells and sometimes it takes years for them to sell syrup. So in quebec's surp- community. There's a very clear line drawn in the sand between the fda q. And the free market up sellers or the free market tappers an attacker is. I don't know if that's an official term. That's what i say it's someone who taps the trees and gets the maple out of the maple trees so the fda q. Is interesting because some tappers are willing to give up a little bit of their freedom for security and some tappers who live in quebec. Want to be able to sell free free on the what's called the free market which they can sell to. Whoever they they choose they can sell as much they want or as little as they want. So it's it's complicated. And i don't know the free sellers would say they were like a mob per se And the fda q. supporters would say they are Good for the maple community in quebec so the free sellers or tappers who do who live in the quebec area and don't want to be part of the fda q. If they don't abide by the rules they can accrue fines that total up into the millions long legal battles and even seized maple trees. Jeez yes this is. The most canadians story i've ever heard. Also it really truly is so think of neighborhood and let's say for all intensive purposes. There's a neighborhood mob and in this neighborhood that's run by the mob. There's a price to pay for doing business. The mob will protect your business. Bring you business. But there's a fee and a price that you must pay without questions and rules that you must follow without question. It's kind of like that. Some people consider but more sophisticated powerful and well connected within the canadian government. That's of some people's opinions so while the idea of our friendly upstairs neighbor running a powerful syrup. mafia is intriguing. where really here for the highest. So on any day this reserve can hold up to seven point. Five million gallons of syrup there are vats upon vats upon bats turning syrup warehouses of white barrel from floor to ceiling with searle syrup labeled light extra light medium amber and dark waiting to be sold to pancake and crepe lovers across the world. Everybody loves syrup. I haven't met one person who doesn't love syrup. This estimated street value is a hundred and eighty five million dollars. Oh my god. Yeah i just imagined. Willy wonka esque factory behind these doors. Just something of wonder and amazement mean with that. Be fun like the river is maple syrup instead of chocolate milk. Yes yes sir. The f. p. a. q. Only inspects the serb once a year and the barrels are very heavy. You cannot be. They can't be lifted by a human. They have to be lifted by a forklift so it was a surprise in two thousand twelve. When during an inspection one of the barrels was tipped over by the hand of an inspector and toppled down on the very top. It was kind of scary. He said to his surprise he tapped the barrel and heard a drumming sound. That only meant the barrel was empty. thinking it to be an inventory mistake. He went about his inspection and he found another and another and another and to everybody shocked discovered. The contents of nearly ten thousand barrels of michael syrup had been stolen. This led to one of the biggest canadian investigations of all time. Quebec police. The royal mounties and us customs deployed nearly three hundred investigators combined to this warehouse so that investigators discovered that oh that over the years two thousand eleven to two thousand twelve. All of the theft occurred and they realized that might have been an inside job. But not somebody that worked for the federation because what the federation did or the f. p. q. Is they actually didn't own any of the warehouses they rented them. And some of these. Warehouses were shared space so they had other renters using other warehouses so they figured that it had to be someone with a key code an access code but not someone who actually worked for the fda q. although these warehouses contained millions of dollars worth of inventory they did not have cameras what they did not have cameras so they had no idea they had no idea who stole the syrup other than the it was somewhat of an inside job so they began just hitting the street and following this river of liquid gold that spread across canada and into northern america. A united states so they tracked down and they found a bunch of barrels But they also found a bunch of sir. I don't know how they tracked down the syrup in all the articles and my sources at the end in everything that i've seen they didn't say how they discovered. It was the up. There was just a trail of syrup. There was literally a trail of syrup and they just followed it. No not to make light of this. Police work they actually. It was incredible like just back to basics. Follow where the syrup went police work. It was pretty incredible. Everything that i've read it set like the investigators just like grinding Police work trying to figure out who stole this and where it went and how to recover it so what these thieves would do is they would break into the warehouse. And at first they started using forklifts to take the barrels out and they would trent travel. They would excuse me transport the barrels to what they call the sugar shack deep in the woods. Close by but deep in the woods and then they would siphon out the syrup put it in their own barrels and then they would refill the f. p. accused barrels with water. And they would bring them back to the warehouse because they knew that they only expected. They only inspected every year and if they were full nobody would notice because it could be years before they went to sell the sir open and discover that it was water so smart but then they started getting greedy and the thieves started siphoning the barrels straight from the warehouse. So and that's how they were really discovered. I mean these barrels were six hundred pounds. I picture it like when people used to siphon gas out of car with their mouths on a picture of them doing this with syrup and it was just a large yellow bear with a big tummy and a crop. Top and his little friend with anxiety of winnie. The pooh outfit described as a crop. Top and cropped top wearing bare super debbie downer friend and then the one that's always bouncing off the walls and it's just and then it was just a tree they found it was a trio. It was an anxiety. Ridden piglet and tiger with adhd and. The ringleader was really just a very hungry bear wearing a crop top and really sad jackass. That's right yes you're was my favorite one. I can't believe you left him out at e or with your favorite. Yeah i mean. Obviously tigger was my favorite because yeah we are both the same The it took them almost a year to track this down and they found they found some barrels in a candy shop in the united states in vermont and the owner was like i had no idea was stolen. Sir and what ha. So the ringleader of this highest is pretty mysterious. I could not find anywhere that it said how he had access. I think he was the owner of one of the warehouses that the the f. p. a. q. Rented or leased from him. So that's how he had access to the syrup but also and his name is richard valet and his father raymond valley a was actually a free market syrup seller. So i'm thinking maybe it was a coincidence. And i think maybe richard valley was one of these free market People that had something against the f. a. q. There's very many layers to this this story and it's just it's it's just about syrup. It's so interesting okay. So the people they they basically did like four hundred interviews. They went all the way to united states. That you like. I said the. Us customs got involved. They try to track down the serbs much could and Up to thirty people were charged. Okay so we have the highest ring. The ring leaders the people involved. So we have richard valley. Who was the ringleader and he Got us to the warehouse. And then we have raymond valley. His father who was a syrup dealer in the free market and then we have intimate saint-pierre who was also a syrup reseller or serb dealer and the free market out of new brunswick and then we have a vic koran. He was the insider who spouse owned the fda warehouse and that's how they got access to the warehouse and then we have a sebastian ju- trust who was a trucker who was involved in the solan syrup and he to this day claims he did not know that it was stolen syrup although he got it from a sugar shack in the middle of the okay i pictured all of them as characters from the pool. Now at this point this whole thing is being reenacted as a cartoon in my mind for one for two. It's always impressive. I don't know if impressive is the right word. But it's always crazy to me to think that like. How do you get these crews together. How do you put feelers out for. Who's going to actually be involved and then not immediately rack you out or who's going to say yes well. It was interesting. Because i don't know if you put your feelers out there i've never Organized crime ring which bucket list just saying should definitely do that in our golden years. Okay so richard valley. I don't know a couple of different articles. Set a couple of different things so they say that he was part of the free market and he had it like a vendetta against the nba. Cue or they just and then another show. I watch netflix. Show which was fantastic by the way recommended. And i'll say oh my sources at the end like i said but they said that he just brazil really into syrup biz in the business but he saw an opportunity so i don't know but what happened. Is they started adding more and more people. And i think maybe the new people got Greedy and then started siphoning straight from the barrels in the warehouse and also what they did is in the warehouse. They have these special forklifts that have like little hooks and it hooks on top of the barrel and on the bottom of the barrel. And it doesn't leave. Any markings will what they use is just a old forklift that they like grabbed it by the sides and they left scrapes all over it and also the barrels that they filled up with water started to rust. How restorations on the outside because of condensation from the heat and temperature change. which syrup doesn't have condensation so they knew that something was going on with the boroughs. Once they started to investigate how many barrels they're actually wear based on rest in marks and Obviously somewhere lighter than the typical six hundred pounds and some were empty so these men were Brought to trial for this theft and richard valet was sentenced to eight years in prison and he was also given a nine point. Four million dollar. Fine out you outlaw. Yes and if the find wasn't paid he was given a fourteen year extension shut. Yeah so raymond valley He was convicted of possession of stolen syrup. attorney saint-pierre was Convicted of The trans the transportation of stolen syrup Sale of stolen goods Avi koran was sentenced to five years plus a one point two million dollar and sebastian jutras. The trucker was also Convicted and given eight months in prison for the transportation of stolen syrup. Which is crazy. This is all about syrup Yeah it's like out at the level of like drugs or something but it's just maple syrup is really is. Just maple sir. That is crazy. But i mean it doesn't really matter what it is. If you could make enough money off of it a crime will occur. Yes and so what they did was they were able to sell this syrups to legitimate buyers so the chances of at one point in our life eating this stolen syrup is really high. While i'm happy to be an accomplice and that was a two hundred witnesses they truck okay so now at well during the trial Richard said that he was actually held at gunpoint and told still the syrup which the jury did not believe Okay i mean honestly it would be better to say that you ate too much syrup in you were you slipped into a food coma and you you blackout you do judas blackout and you stole ten thousand barrels of syrup. The warehouses now are are really under. Lock and key there guarded. They have cameras. They are considered the holy of holies. It is a canadian treasurer and they take their syrup security much more seriously. These days and and none of the syrup was really ever some was confiscated but most of it was sold to the black market and consumed by the waffle eaters of the world. And that is the story of the great canadian maple syrup heist official name the on record largest agriculture heist in the world. I believe it isn't that wild. That syrup is more expensive than crude oil. I had no idea That's a great story. I can't believe i had never heard of it. I'm really into these kind of true crime stories. That are not you know super dark. Yeah we're talking. Serial not serial killer today. You should've probably started with that. I wish you. I wish that was a perfect intro as our let me my is really quick. Now that i'm a ass backwards. So i watched the series dirty money and it was the maple syrup heist episode and money on netflix. It has two seasons. It is such a good series in. It's basically like white collar crime. I'm into that. It is so cool It's such a. it's like true crime. But you know if if you want a different sean shauna of true crime checkout dirty money because it's pretty cool and yet you tiffany and i are into the trump the white collar true crime because it's so interesting and it's you know the underdog of the true crime genre. Think most people go straight for the blood and guts and sometimes it's nice to have a little story about you know a heister to even if it is maple syrup. Yeah oh and also wikipedia and a article in wayfair written by rich. Cohen called inside. Quebec's great multimillion dollar maple syrup heist and i thought that was interesting. Because there's too so many layers that you have the free market tappers maple syrup tappers and then you have these big What people would call cartel and they're just operating openly within everybody to see maybe questionable business practices. And then you have this guy who's like well. I have access to one hundred eighty five million dollars worth of syrup. I might as well i mean. Isn't it like you said it's so canadian right. If they're gonna do heist it's going to be a maple syrup And look we've got out of this episode without my bad french canadian french canadian accent. I'm honestly a little bit disappointed about that. I know well. I figured what touring the names was cringe enough. I guess that wraps up our episode today. Yeah thank you so much for listening everybody. We truly appreciate it. We have some new listeners. Coming in and it's very exciting for us to grow our little weird yes unity and today happy hour. It's a shot of syrup. Everybody for on the house around on the house. You're going to buy all over listeners. A single shot of sir. Yes very generous of it is. That's expensive anyways. Thank you so much for listening. Tiffany said we so appreciate all of your lakes and reviews and the subscribes that you give us. We're are just so thankful and on that note. Love yourself wink wink. Lock your doors and your syrup vaults and light. Some sage cheers cheers to that

john kellogg john kellogg John John kellogg kellogg leslie quebec fda park park park battle creek michigan headquar dr russell trawls hijo therape battle creek graham larkin dr kellogg cassie cucolo western health reform institut
Do You Even Decarbonize, Bro? | Energy Roundup 4/16/21

Oil and Gas Startups Podcast

22:21 min | 6 months ago

Do You Even Decarbonize, Bro? | Energy Roundup 4/16/21

"Sco non digital wildcatters welcome to another installment of the energy roundup podcast robert. What's going on man a man just hanging out happy to be back soon this again hanging out. I'm gonna see you next week. You're going to be town gonna be recording a podcast live and then you'll be back a few days later for the block party right. Yeah that's right. So i'm i'm really excited. Obviously the block party is going to be a good time. But i'm really excited for For tuesday so we've got Case van hoff coming on from diamondbacks talk about the diamondback q. E. p. deal now that that's all closed so that'll be fun. That'll be kind of our first chance to get to really sit down one of these executive and and talk to him at length about you know kind of their strategic rationale and how they got to the deal and you know what they're looking to take out of it so it'll be it'll be cool to get that perspective and you know this week we're going to cover pioneer and double eagle and i'm thinking i'm feeling pretty optimistic about trying to get cody on or you know someone from one of those two sides to come talk so we'll be exciting for do that to sla. I mean let's just hop. They're talking about that double-eagle pioneer you know six point. Four billion dollars was the talk of the internet over the last week. What do you think about that man. I mean definitely. Congratulations to cody. And the rest of the double eagle team. I mean that's crazy for coating john. This is this is awesome and for everybody. It's on their team. That this is awesome. And it's it's good stuff for the for the midland basin to We'll just kind of dive into a little bit. So kind of you. Know double eagle. This one was double points. So this is the the merger between double and four point. They merged their Midland basin position in two thousand eighteen So they were totaling over. Seventy thousand acres is which would just went through this merger and You know leading up to the sale double point Last year double their production to reach a total about one hundred thousand barrels of oil a day. Which is crazy to think about with everything that was happening during the pandemic. These guys kind of flew in the face of conventional wisdom group production and you know with turn around and oil and in jail. Prices have really been able to capitalize so now pioneer greece to buy them for six point. Four billion dollars. It's comprised over twenty seven million shares of pioneer Worked out pretty well for pioneer. They're able to fund the acquisition with equity and Given that their stock prices doubled since october of twenty twenty. This was probably pretty easy. Decision for them Even with the kind of recent stock price decline since they've announced this deal with double point. Pioneer stock is down about ten percent but since the acquisition of parsley. They're up twenty percent. So no pioneers using equity to go by this company And and it works out really well for them there. Is it also an additional billion dollars in cash considerations and and nine hundred million in liabilities. And if you look at the deal break down a little bit You know that there wasn't a ton of information out there kind of on the exact asset but You know the way. The bankers and and pioneer in and double point looked at. This was no. They wanted to make the deal. Substantially and immediately accretive to to pioneer on some of the following metrics the net asset value which essentially essentially. It's capturing the the value of the remaining locations in acreage You know there is around three thousand locations left so this is quite a bit of inventory. wanted to be creative on a multiple free cash flow multiple and pro forma leverage It's interesting and pretty cool. That point was not in a position where they were being forced to sell You know they had some pretty big backers behind him in quantum and apollo And so eventually they're either got to sell or go public But there wasn't any pressure in this deal came around You know they were free. Cash flow the turn free cash flow positive double point did in january and and with that like i mentioned earlier that cruden in jail price recovery. Everybody seemed to be pretty happy with this deal You know so. Some strategic rationale behind the scenes a little bit so You know both parties are claiming over one hundred and seventy five million dollars synergies. Pioneer has announced that they're going to slow their completion space to create free cash flow in the near term. And they're gonna drop the double point rigs down from seven to five acreage dovetails pioneers. Which is going to allow for longer laterals and allow for larger d. issues. Gillian spacing units to reduce costs. know give points recent completion activity though these high clients in this area are to be in that. Pioneers have to drill to maintain their five percent production growth goals and this is also pretty good for pioneer. Because there's there's no federal lands exposure on on dublin acreage So you know overall just kind of wrap it up know it seems to be you know. Both parties are excited deals. A for for pioneer shareholders markets kind of said otherwise. You know at least dignam about ten percent since it's come out You know this. This acquisition allows pioneered to grow production-based by fifteen to twenty percent and allows double point sponsors to exit at a at a pretty nice multiple. So you know when you look at this you look at you look at diamondback. You look show deal alert. Been three big deals here in the last six five six months. And you know there's probably room for one or two more big ones to happen and It'll just be interesting to see how the market continues to view this in terms of pioneer equity shares and What happens next is just on another level right there in the league in their own after the parsley acquisition. Now this i mean it's pretty hard to beat them out in the permian yet. No doubt i mean. They're they're definitely in a commanding position. So we add obviously this huge news in upstream space. But there's a lot of big news in midstream. Space as well with the dakota access pipeline and so the us corps of engineers said that it would not be shutting down the pipeline. Just yet they're still evaluating things. What does this mean robert like. You know so much back and forth drama on the pipeline over the last three months two or three months get Engineers yeah what does it mean when they say a. We're not shutting down yet. You know it sounded like it was kind of a definite thing couple months ago. Yes so you know. Us court has kicked it down Know for environmental review The army corps of engineers had kind of been rumored to be potentially the stop on this thing and for them to allow it to continue operating. They've now kicked the decision back to the judge and the judge you know in his tenure has made some decisions that favor both parties different times. So you know. It's really a wild card right now. I know that On our friends show tricia nathan over on pensioners. They've they discovering the story And they got a much better rigged on the weekend but You know the the. Us corps of engineers is basically said we don't we don't wanna touch. The decision has implications. That are too far-reaching. We're gonna kick it back to the court for a final decision. Now that's going to be coming out here. In the next couple of months and just overall in general i mean the shares of energy transfer have gone up on this news energy transfers probably up about ten percent fifteen percent since this is all come out and just really in terms of the balkan in general i. It's keeping about four hundred ten thousand barrels a day of oil on pipe that would otherwise get kicked over crude and keeping those base differentials pretty pretty well in so You know this is definitely going to be kind of the big story of the year and i. i feel like it's going to be really kind of a fair weather. Mark on on what happens for the rest of the the biden administration depending on where this decisions up going. Yeah i mean speaking of the buchan. There's a big acquisition there too with hess selling their acreage to enter. Plus for three hundred twelve million. I guess you don't get as much press when you're only at three hundred million deal when they're six billion dollar deals going on so this uncomfortable under the radar. Putt has said that they have any plans to drill the majority of the seventy eight thousand acres before two thousand and twenty six. So it was just non-strategic acreage for them. So ended up divesting it to enter. Plus you have we seen. We've covered a lot of manet news here over the last few months but a lot of it's been up you know in the marcellus utica lot of the permian. Have we seen a lot of activity. Up in the balkan lately you know not not a ton you've seen restructuring you know if you kinda recall. Inner plus was the one who took out bruin a couple months ago And this acreage again. Is it kind of dubbed tells. Well the dovetails well with with that previous acquisition And a big part. So there's about a hundred and ten Units that are still left to drill here in this area that inner pluses kind of. That's what they've called out as as the as the number of remaining tier one inventory but a big reason that hess did not Develop this is because a lot of this wasn't a dedicated to their midstream system. And if you look at the buck and a lot of those rates up there. are higher than you'll see another basis because a lot of those midstream contracts are kinda signed up two thousand fourteen two thousand fifteen hundred dollar oil This gas was flowing into petra. Hunts small little facility so no. It wasn't even going into the system so made sense for them to divest it. It's great to see inner. Plus you know kind of their position You know they've got acreage across all of the core of the core of the core of the buchan. So it's gonna say that again No but you know. They've got the on montreal sale and mackenzie county and it gets good for them. And it's great to see more things happening up there and i'm hopeful for for some movement. The bucket especially after some clarity on on dapple absolutely seems like a a lot of activities really dependent on dapple right so a lot of things in the air now. No doubt all right. Let's let's switch it up and let's get into some clean tech news. So the first we're going to cover is Is swift energy gets new owner so buckeye partners dollar resources of acquired majority ownership of swift said north american clean energy development and investment platform and swift has commercialized since two thousand sixteen more than one point one gigawatts of renewable projects and You know has a pipeline of six gigawatts of solar wind energy storage which is a ton Dive into this a little bit. Tell me what you know about it. And kind of what. This means for for For for buckeye in particular. Who's you know energy oil and gas company. Yeah i think it's pretty interesting. I think this is the. I am not mistaken. I think this is the first. Major emanate deals that we've covered on the roundup since we've been doing this show in renewable so i don't know if there's a ton of movement in that space obviously there's a ton of capital being invested in space right. So i wouldn't be surprised to start seeing some consolidation. In emanate. is things progress. But you know. I think that if you look at this week we had another warning from urquhot. Everyone in texas was getting nam. Flashbacks regaining warnings from arcot conserve power. And there's just like. I've been getting nervous. I've been really optimistic in on renewables. But now i'm starting to really. It's almost like texas grid is becoming a little less reliable in real time and really worry about the incentives behind renewables in ashley. You know what i'm talking about. How tradition in ethan retired about apple on their show. Got a really good show coming up from someone from arcot on a margin call next week in a rather when you hear this one. Because he's going in on renewable. So i think that You know even like in this deal you know. They got six gigawatts of solar wind in energy storage projects in the pipeline Hope that these companies are really thinking about backup power in what we do in those situations because it's definitely needed right so hopefully buckeye partners in nala renewables a thinking of these things but just kind of come into the dark side with humana. I'm getting a little skeptical understandable yet so nala to finish off this article. Knowledge created in. October twenty twenty as a fifty fifty joint venture between kim commodity trading company aren't even hype announces trafigura set so a criteria. Trafigura i don't think they're gonna. You should look at that one before. I read it as like a know that this whole so it's better than a by a small margin still takes the cake so keep on keeping on renewable bandwagon here carbonate decarbonization. The hot thing and big boys are getting in the game. I mean they've been in the came but they're open the stakes so blackrock just raise four point eight billion dollars for its global renewable power fund. Three almost twice what they set out to raise back in two thousand nineteen in nearly triple the size of the previous renewables fund. The money which came from over one hundred institutional investors is already being put to work have three completed investments which include offshore wind in europe solar in asia and distributed solar generation in the us the fund is also considering investment since smart power grids. Smart meters and electric vehicle infrastructure since inception black rocks global renewable power platform has invested in over two hundred and fifty wind and solar projects across thirteen countries on four continents. That's a lot of green renewable energy. Like i said lots of capital coming in the space right and do you think black rock cares if it's reliable energy or do they just wanna take to twenty so i think blackrock wants to make as much money as possible and with as much money flooding into it. There's gonna be a bag holder. Who's also had access to money. That can afford overpay because they want to put their money to work. And it's just gonna be you know essentially shale all over again and It's crazy how much how much the story mimics shale right like. I was talking to one of my Founder friends. he's a founder of distributed energy company. And what really makes me worried is the parallels between what's happening now in what happened shale in he had no idea about the private equity game in american shale inside told him all about down. So that is that is similar. So the money we've covered. The interest rates are cheap. The project returns can be low because of how cheap the money is you know. The money is pouring in. There's continued incentives coming from the government and You you don't wanna fight it because these guys know how to make money and they're going after four point eight billion dollars as a ton We've got one hundred gigawatts or so of coal You know that we probably should be getting off the grid in the near term You know especially if we want to meet some of these. Co two goals that are stated out there but as you were talking earlier you know you need this power to be reliable. He needed to have backup You know you can't afford to build out one hundred gigawatts of renewable backing up with one hundred gigawatts of gas and not expect rates to go up for all the ratepayers across the different areas of the country. So you know you don't want to fight it so that same time you don't fight it but you know it's kinda it's for me like jumping in on on tech stocks or bitcoin or any of that stuff. When money's just flowing into the market you know it's hard lose It's really hard to lose. I feel like these guys. See how much money And how much attention is going into climate change and and they're putting themselves in a position to go and capture it absolutely asai. Good tweet the was talking about climate take movement in start about it's a wave and either resisted or you surf it blackhawks. Definitely surfin it. Definitely surfeit since we're since we're on it and we're talking about decarbonization. Just one other thing. One of their store we got we got time for is around oxy and rebuffing the carbon tax credit So a couple of weeks ago. The american petroleum institute came out in favor of carbon tax. And why is backed by Among others exxon mobil chevron the big the majors the supermajors and You know oxy to their credit has been investing a lot in carbon tax or carbon capture. Sequestration comes out and says hey we're we're against this. This is really gonna hurt. And and i agree with him here and whether this is self serving because they're worried that their You know. co two sequestration Is going to change. And and that's going to affect their their returns. You know that's that could be the cynical way to look at it at the same time. You know what i think is really interesting here. And if you think about the api companies like exxon and bp and shell and chevron have the ability to be able to deploy capitol across all different areas of the space and independence are in a position. Where you know. They're focused on exploration and production now. They're focused on midstream operations. They're focused on refining. And if you aren't super major and you can't figure out have the sophistication in place to trade carbon taxes and carbon credits where it can become an industry an industry and in a profit center for you. you're definitely a disadvantage show is definitely interesting to see oxy kind of stand up here. I know you ragland oxy a lot. What do you think about their stance here on this on this carbon tax. Yeah i mean brag on oxy but also give vicki hollow a lot of credit for trying something you gotta try something right especially when your balance sheet is distresses. There's was last year. You gotta try something extreme. Something innovative in you know. I'm not a huge fan of carbon credits. I think it's just a product of financial engineering essentially and that the real solutions to climate aren't gonna be designed to excel spreadsheet. They'll come from technological innovations. So yeah. I just don't think like any i wouldn't want to run a business or invest in a business that is dependent on monitoring off a carbon credits right but as much as i rag on oxy i do give dickie and oxy credit for trying something and you know i think. This instance of them fighting against carbon taxes is is serving to them I mean they're putting a lot of eggs into the basket of Carbon capture right. So you know it is what it is. Why would they be incentivized to have a carbon tax So it's not really that surprising but you know if i see pulls it off. I'll give them all the credit publicly. Have ride donham publicly. I'll give them credit publicly. I don't know if this is gonna end up working for him or not. I mean there's a lot of unknowns there but you know kudos for trying and obviously got defend that position yet. No doubt so. I thought that was just kind of an interesting bit of story. That got caught my attention this week. So yeah all right. Thanks for joining me in robert for another show so make sure to check out next week. robert said we're gonna have case on from diamondback from fang at the stock things from the mp thing going to be talking about their recent emanate and just overall has some good conversations can be good then hopefully it cody cam on to talk about the recent pioneering double point Acquisition as well. So we're looking to take on jim cramer. Cnbc you'll need to go to the cable networks anymore. Get the best news. We're just gonna bring home here on the roundup so make sure to check that out next week. Few enjoyed this episode share with a friend. Send a colleague if nothing else just tell him to hit. Play one time so we can get a youtube download in who appreciate that. So hey guys on the next episode robert seeing use next week Sounds good next week. And if you're an exotic out there we cover your story you can come on the show to talk about it.

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A Beer Battle Is Brewing In Michigan

Daily Detroit

23:59 min | 2 years ago

A Beer Battle Is Brewing In Michigan

"I always say i actually respect the three tier system and see value in it at the end of the day. I don't wanna be a logistics company. I don't want to you know have a bunch of vehicles and delivery people but the problem is a berea. My size doesn't have the scale to justify signing with the distributor. That's deigned arched managing director of eastern market brewing company. They're leading a petition drive. I have to change state law to make it easier for small breweries in michigan to self distribute their beer without having to go through distributor. I'm spend gustafsen. I talked all about with barch on today's show and i'm jerry stays. Welcome to your daily detroit for thursday august twenty nineteen also on today's show we highlight election results from around town including warren mayor. Jim fouts posting to victory in his primary townhomes. In detroit island you neighborhood or going for six hundred twenty thousand dollars each calling it reverse gentrification it made us scratch our heads and we'll talk about it. The giant tower being built on the old hudson site well. It's getting downsized. Kroger's hiring and pizza hut is closing some stores and finally we'll tell you about pups in the plaza all that after this word from today's show sponsor traditional four year students love lawrence technological university's thriving campus life but lt you has always met nontraditional students student's needs to lawrence tech offers over one hundred degree and certificate programs that can get adult students started her back on track and most classes are conveniently offered evenings at l._t._u.'s beautiful southfield campus or online so you can balance your social family and work life even while you power of your career find out more at lt a u dot e._d._u. That's l. t. u. Dot e._d._u. There's news about what was to become detroit's tallest tower to be built by dan gilbert's bedrock real estate in short it probably won't be detroit's tallest tower and updated timeline delivered in a tweet shows. The project is a year behind behind the original schedule with the ground level work set to start in spring of next year but here's the kicker multiple media outlets reporting that the tower may be cut by as much as has half no longer making it the tallest tower in detroit upon completion. The final height will depend on which hotel operator bedrock ends up choosing regardless. The planned land observation deck isn't happening. The additional room for dedicated elevator would take up too much rentable space however i did get a separate statement from joe gazettes their v._p. Of construction it's a bit long but teasing it as an expanded public space between the podium and tower of the building for performances and events stephen goes on to you say quote we are currently in active discussions with potential hotel partners to deliver a flagship hotel in the tower which will make hudson's and even more powerful economic catalyst for detroit so jair. I would just say that. I'm i find it extremely a bummer that there is no longer to be a rooftop observation deck because we need one in detroit man. We don't have any now. Don't the closest thing right. Now that we have is the the monarch club and that's not all the way up though it's a great view absolutely but it's not you know who knows how tall the building's going it'd be. I think it was originally touted for fifty two stories last night. It was gonna be taller than the rents so that's huge. The thing about this is that i feel like there's room being given to kind of fun. I just around a little bit because of the economic conditions are changing. I mean this has already been in reality kind of slid back. A year with design changes market changes ages. There's a lot of chatter among the economic class that <hes> we could be in the early stages of sliding into a recession. Well and building materials are just getting much more more expensive not just for bedrock but for everybody steelers up tariffs. I have a big impact. I when i talked to developers other projects they're having to re factor a lot of their projects because the cost of materials is just skyrocketing now. I don't have confirmation on that being the cost for this. I mean in fairness almost certainly is a factor because they need a lot of steel to build this his tower and we're from now china where you buy everything else china one thing i would add here though the powerful is the hotel that gives me some hope. We need a boatload of hotel rooms multiple outlets reported how we need banks of hotel rooms all together in order to attract bigger conventions so it could be a when they talk talk about being a catalyst. I feel like if you're talking catalyst and hotel. That's how you do it with the super giant hotel. Here's a quick run through of important election election results from tuesday's local races. I up in warren incumbent. Mayor jim fouts coasted to a primary victory. He got fifty eight percent percent of the vote strong sign for his candidacy. In the general election in second place was council member kelly colegio with just under twenty four percent. Despite many recent media reports that have been critical of fouts seems he's still very popular in michigan's third largest city. Whenever i'm in warren man i hear tons of support for him. You drive through there. He's got all the sign edge and i mean people support him and i've heard and here's something interesting. I've heard plenty of signs of the anti media bias. That's kind spread across the country. A lot of folks believe that yet. It's the fake news or they don't care meanwhile. The enclave of highland park has put the kyw bosh on plans to license marijuana marijuana facilities in their city fifty six to forty four percent. A controversial parking that plan in birmingham was overwhelmingly defeated nixing plans for fifty seven million million dollars in bonds to help make a one hundred and forty million dollar downtown project happen. The fate of that project was going to have a restoration hardware. Otherwise is known as an r. H. is now very unclear and finally in bloomfield township. A public safety funding plan to raise one hundred thirty five million dollars over fifteen years went down to defeat to bridge a funding gap. The city is expected to now lose about fourteen percent of its fleece officers and firefighters ever hear the term reverse gentrification. Nope me neither but that's how developers are describing a four plex. Townhouse project taking shape on an east grand boulevard in detroit where i finished unit is selling for cool six hundred twenty thousand dollars curb detroit reports that the developers began renovating the four connected brick townhomes last year. Three of them were vacant while the fourth was owned by a woman named lorraine griffin. She's lived there for almost fifty years now. So instead of leaning on her seller unit they've decided to fix up replace they put in new windows a new roof facade and electrical system. They they say the upgrades mean the woman's home climbs in value from ten thousand dollars to three hundred thousand dollars all for free the developers say they've also hired more than a dozen local residents to work on the rehab. Many of them got on the job training in carpentry skills so the idea here is that locals can stay day in the neighborhood even as the home values go up. I mean a man that term reverse gentrification is pretty terrible. Here's the thing i am all for people staying being in their homes. I'm all for novel ways to make this stuff happen. I'm all for people in the neighborhood getting jobs but i am i continued to be stunned at the prices in detroit. Nowadays i mean this is right for grand boulevard right next to bell bridge. They're definitely things up and coming in nearby the few blocks from west village homes across the street and you're paying six hundred twenty thousand dollars like i don't detroit real estate boggles my mind because there are people who pay it. A lot of these folks are coming in from other cities. This is i mean detroit is in a situation of a completely unequal playing field. What's happening is is that folks from other. Cities are are selling small places for tons of money that here you know they can sell their place. Make seventy five percent profit and then take that money and only spend a small section of it and get a place in detroit. The amount of change is just stunning to me and i don't know if it stops where it stops like. Where is this market mark at because i mean just thinking about those places in capital park. We previewed last week twenty one hundred dollars a month. That's the average price in downtown toronto and i love capital park but it sure as sal ain't no downtown toronto no nice gesture here by the developers no question i mean i think this is interesting and it's you know innovative. I mean i guess i still have a lot of questions about doubt it but it's a nice thought in a way to train detroiters. You know help them acquire job skills which are sorely needed. You would sort of assume that the prices is of these units six hundred twenty thousand dollars for the first one. That's completed the other two. I think are supposed to come on the market in the fall. You'd assume that they're that expensive in part because they're subsidizing the upgrades they made to this woman's play sure but think about the greater picture that's one percenter housing right and every almost everything being built here outside of affordable stuff the frankly nonprofits are we're having to build or the city's having demand that set-asides be done and it selling look right around the corner from here. There's a place on selden sold out like all these places are selling winged assume that this woman's going to have some very wealthy neighbors and you know she presumably. She's been there for fifty years. I'm going to just make an assumption she. I don't know but i'm going to make an assumption. She's you know of relatively modest means yeah. They kept her in place but there's gonna be a lot of new well-heeled residents tooling around the neighborhood a one thing that's not in question i mean those units are really good yeah very nice. This is a classic brick. Four plex connected how townhomes unit it is very much a detroit style but the interior looks beautiful with a link to the curb detroit article in the show notes kroger is hiring as many as eight hundred people people this year in michigan so if you're interested in the jobs that pay between nine dollars and twenty five cents an eleven bucks an hour. Here's what you need to know. You can apply online at kroger's website and visit any store friday or saturday from eleven a._m. To six p._m. For an interview we'll have a link in the show notes kroger employs about nineteen thousand people in the state and and has plans to open stores in warren and sterling heights this year additionally pizza hut is closing five hundred of their seventy five hundred stores nationally as they make shift from sit down restaurants to delivery and grab and go from what they're now calling express locations. There's no word on how many of the one hundred sixty four michigan stores face imminent demise. You like pizza hut. You find so true story. Pizza hut for me was actually like my gateway drug to the wider world. The food which i know sounds ridiculous but bear with me for a second so i was like a young kid right picky eater wouldn't eat anything used to go spend the night all the time. I'm at my grandparents house. They lived in plymouth. I was i grew up in ann arbor right and somehow or another. I worked up the gumption to taste pizza because i was so picky. I thought pizza was growth for the longest time right. We went to dinner at pizza hut right there on ann arbor trail plymouth road whatever it is right there and i got pizza. This is amazing. I love this stuff. I mean i i used to go there and they had like asteroids like stand up video game console and stuff so it was you know they're gonna from your right as a as a young kid but yeah i mean pizza was what unlocked my my curiosity about food and from then on it was like i basically tasted more or less anything you put in front of me and discovered that there's a lot of good things to eat in the world and now and now you ep. It's all the time hi my i mean. That's probably what you'll be able to go to. What's interesting to me with pizza. Hut is over the years the number of buildings that they've left that have kind of been shells and turned into other restaurants. You can always tell because it's a telltale shape and one of those is right near the podcast detroit royal oak studios karma litas yeah. I was just import here on the other day family and i went to the beach and <hes> drove by one there. That's now a an italian restaurant. I haven't tried it but like i said they're they're understandable. Send in your favorite pizza hut turns something else to daily alita -troit's at g mail dot com daily detroit is brought to you in part by repurpose. That's where you can get hired by. Detroit's best startups and companies repurpose connect top talent like you with purpose driven companies based on values experience and culture fit join their talent community at repurpose purpose dot c._o. That's repurpose dot c._o. Joining us in the podcast detroit detroit detroit shipping company is dane bartsch. He's managing partner of eastern market brewing company and in a previous incarnation. We were coworkers together. Yes we will yell at blue. Cross else was should've michigan who sat on the same floor even to see you again. Good see yeah. You definitely look in much more part of the <hes> craft beer entrepreneur now than than the strategy guy yeah. I don't have to worry about my appearance. I'm still just as busy but at least i don't have to worry about shaving or cutting my hair right so before we get into this topic which is really interesting. I think let's kind of set the table. Tell us a little bit about eastern market brewing company because you guys are a couple of years old now but still fairly new for people who don't haven't been there haven't heard of you. Tell us a little ended about the company started yeah. We're just over a year and a half old. I think we're technically still the newest brewery in detroit. Although i know there's a couple that should be hopefully opening up pretty soon <hes> but right now the newest brewery in detroit our two year anniversary will be this october <hes> a right in the heart of eastern market on rye appel between winder and adelaide actually walk down an alley from shed to write to the brewery and so we love saturdays we get get the market crowded with people from all walks of life and that's been kind of the heart and soul of our businesses are taproom in eastern market and since then i'm sure we'll get into it but we started taylor distributor our beer a little bit thinking like sixty to seventy bars and restaurants around greater detroit and that's been cool the sketchy get our beer out in the market and <hes> you started i started with. I think you were just telling me a bunch of your college buddies yeah so it all started <hes> i was working in studying in england and my wife convinced me to move home dan arbor we both grew up in ann arbor and part of our deal was i could start a business in detroit. I was just really passionate about everything's going into trey and then i had this alterior motive which was to convince all my buddies or still living in chicago to to move to michigan so every every once in a while i'd get them to come out and visit and one of our trips was <hes> easter market and everyone fell in love with area and we ended up starting the business yeah right on all all right so eastern market brewing company is now spearheading a petition campaign. What's the issue here. You're talking about distribution yeah so in the state of michigan brewers can only self distribute the first thousand barrels of beer they produce and so for someone like us. It's taproom focused. A lot of that. Beer actually goes direct to consumers and then once the thousand barrel mark by law. You're required a sign on with a distributor and somebody who delivers to stores and other bars and stuff yeah exactly and it's all stems from basically the prohibition in every state across the u._s. They implemented the three tier system. Which is where you have the manufacturers or producers like us breezy other streeters for the middleman and then you have of the retailer so bars and restaurants and grocery stores and a lot is obviously changed in the the beer industry over the past hundred years through your system really has been slow to kind of evolve with how things have changed in michigan in particular is very far behind all the great lakes states have <hes> limits the minimum is ten thousand barrels and some you can self distribute up to that ten thousand thousand yup exactly and if it ten thousand is a lot of beer. There's only a handful of burris that would be impacted by that in michigan. If you go in ohio it's basically unlimited because they had to settle set limit. I think it's like one hundred thousand barrels or something like that. Most states allow significant selfish abusive whereas michigan does not it's something that's been talked about for a really long time and we finally just kinda kinda stood up and started to make a little bit of noise about it and has gained a lot attraction amongst other breweries forty-six burris now that have signed on in support and then we've got a lot i think our petitions nations getting close to five thousand signatures and we actually got a couple of distributors on board and we're at right now in negotiations actually try to get a change so why is this a problem the one thousand barrel roll threshold and why not just join a distributor. I always say i actually respect the three tier system and see value in it the other day. I don't wanna be a logistics company. I don't want to you have a bunch of vehicles and delivery people but the problem is a berea. My size doesn't have the scale to justify signing with a distributor. You know you give it generally around a thirty percent percent cut to the distributor and for us. We're already just barely scraping by through self distribution. We had to give that thirty percent cut. It just wouldn't make financial sense for us. You need to hire your cap to build up some of that scale that you need yeah exactly and same thing we've had a couple of distributors come on and support because they see it as well right now. We have a really good problem but we every week we run got a beer and so a distributor wanna work with us because they'd come to pick up beer and we wouldn't have any for them and so it makes sense for us to actually grow our self distribution network and then get so point where we have the scale to actually enter into an agreement with the distributor another issue is that in michigan they have franchise law where we sign with distributor that agreement is for life if in perpetuity when you can't break distributor releases you from that agreement route and so a lot of breweries that are in my spot if they wanna go the distribution route they have to enter into these agreements agreements before they really know how their products going to the market so increasing the limit will allow breweries like meat actually be able to test their product in the market develop a network and then handed off to distribute beer when it has value and they can basically just run with it so these other breweries that have signed onto your petitioner. They smaller ones like you or they are there. Any larger ones sounds that are on board with this too. There's no huge juries that have signed on and support. I'd say you know some of them are tiny down to one hundred barrels. We've got some pretty big brewers like sheboygan and midland that have also signed it in support. There's really a range so it's anywhere from like a hundred barrels too. I think a couple of brews are up in two thousand three thousand barrel range. Where were you guys right now. In terms of production election we will not hit a thousand this year but we will would definitely hit it next year. So we're kind of thinking forward on in south for me is like either decision to make if i am getting close close to a thousand barrels. Do i sign on with the distributor and then the problem is i can never change that agreement. Once i'm in i'm locked in for life and so that's why we want the ability to actually just grow our business mr t._j. Clean and say all right. This makes sense for us. Let's let's work with a distributor or hey. This doesn't really make sense of us where we don't have the march and we don't have the scale and then just focus on our taproom. What happens to you guys if i mean this. Law isn't changed in next year as you predict thousand barrels and go past that was in for you yes so we have a tough decision to make we either you have to sign with the distributor or we have just pulled back from distribution because you are distributing now so self distributing. It's yeah we're self distributing and you know the other issue that it comes off is that because of this low cap most breeze do not invest in self distribution because they're like all right. I'm gonna buy delivery vehicle. Mobile bunch of kegs higher hire salesperson. If it goes well then i'm gonna hit the thousand barrel. Mark and those all become sunk costs so they don't do it. We actually made a decision to invest in those things so unfortunately only if the law doesn't change we're going to have a tough decision to make which either sign on the distributor or pull back from all of our accounts and we've had a lot of success and self distribution. Sino are retailers would be very upset if we had to make that decision. One nice thing is the limit resets on january first so we won't hit this year and we'll be back to zero barrels on january first so decision in will really for us personally. Come at some point probably in the middle of next year. We also have built a brew house can't do much more than a thousand barrels and we did that strategically because of the law so so if we know that it's gonna change then we'd probably invest in infrastructure or potentially look at brewing elsewhere so that we can continue to grow through self distribution and if it doesn't change then it doesn't make sense for me to spend ten thousand dollars on more brewing equipment only to see that it doesn't just your goal here is to get some legislative action correct. Have you had any me bites from any lawmakers and lansing. There's actually been a lot of progress recently which has been feeling pretty optimistic about the situation. The wholesalers conference took place last week and the michigan brewers guild that represents all most of the breweries in michigan was there and they are currently negotiating a change to the limit and they've got a deal on the table and so hopefully it's britain as a bill in the next few weeks and will actually go in front of legislators this fall. I know the guild and the wholesaler is actually have legislators that are that mark or tag to actually support this so it's bipartisan support which is great and so we're feeling pretty optimistic that a law will be changed this fall. We've been calling for thirty thousand in barrels which is on par for other states. It's if it does pass this year. It was going to be significantly lower but i think it's at least a step in the right direction well. That's a really interesting. We'll keep our eyes is on that. Meanwhile business going over there for you guys on ripe. He'll always great. It's been really fun and exciting over the past year and a half just to see the brewery we grow. I think i've been so impressed with brewers are beer. Just keeps getting better and better and better. We started our business model with this idea that we'd always be rotating our beers and you always get something new. Do a couple of beers have really become flagships. Where if someone comes to the taproom and it's not there. They're disappointed <hes>. We just got a canning line. Which is kinda cool so we've been doing some canned. Releases says of two particular beers elephants use market day our new england appears and then south distribution has been awesome for us <hes>. We really don't make any money off of it but it's a good way for us us to get our names out in the field to learn about us. You were telling me also that riot fell where you're located over there. In eastern market is due for major streetscape project. Yes so <hes> it just us want a grand last year the city to do streetscape and we're nervous about it because it's definitely an effective business over the next few months but we're really excited about what the outcome will be. It's gonna gonna be a level surface and be more of a walking street. They're going to have new landscaping new lights and so it's going to become a bit of a destination within each door seating for you guys yeah we'll be able to actually have seat. We'll be able to reserve parking spots and then have outdoor seating out their school. Just change the entire experience <hes> we are very busy on the weekends and early in the today but there's not much around us so he starts kind of slow down at night and so we're hoping that this will hopefully draw some more bars and restaurants and actually become a bit of a district within detroit sounds good. That's really neat block over there the way it's come together in the last few years i've been in brasses seeing all these spots and plus. There's just a tradition of some of the older businesses and we're starting to see a little bit of change which is a little worrisome but hopefully the market continuous identity. Is it starts to get investment that like it has recently all right. Dan bartsch is managing partner of eastern market. Brewing company deemed grid. I see you again. Thanks so much for coming in. Thanks appreciate it before you head out the door. If you're looking for a new best friend or just enjoy the city with your current up their pups in the plaza on friday night the event in partnership with the michigan humane society and others we'll be held at little caesars arena and future detroit pistons guard langston galloway. The event is august ninth and starts at six p._m. There will be treat and photo stations caricature drawings and dog bulls and at seven thirty the movie space jam. If you do want to take a new best friend home all adoption vs will be paid for by strategic staffing solutions nations to come your puzzle need all their usual stuff vaccinations and tax love-linked n._b._a. Dot com in the show notes all right. That'll do it for today's daily really detroit be sure to tell a friend about the podcast on apple podcasts spotify or wherever you download your favorite shows and if you really love us bake some cookies and join us as a member at patriotair dot com slash daily detroit cookies randy walker and cheyenne. No serena spend gus and i'm jerry stays take care of each each other and we'll see you around detroit and send me some oatmeal raisin. You're listening to the podcast detroit network visit w._w._w. Dot podcast detroit detroit dot com for more information.

detroit michigan detroit island Jim fouts warren Kroger ann arbor stephen jerry managing partner managing director joe gazettes lawrence technological univers lawrence tech hudson highland park michigan humane society
Deja Vu All Over Again | Margin Call Podcast

Oil and Gas Startups Podcast

52:04 min | 10 months ago

Deja Vu All Over Again | Margin Call Podcast

"This is margin cau- a podcast that explores the oil markets. We pull the pieces together to talk about. How every cut of the barrel is market and white prices behaved the way they do with your guides. Alex sandy and george perez step for less. Nothing just the. What did you say a black cat win past us and then another that look just like it much like it was at the same cat might have been. I'm not sure switch puck. What is it deja. Vu is usually to the matrix. It happens when they change something and welcome everyone to margin call episode five. We're gonna call this one it stage of who all over again At the end of the last episode we talked a bit about the story of enron is essentially being the next episode. That we get would get into and we actually have Prepared that episode but a couple of things have happened recently in in contemporary time at news With regards to topics that we've covered extensively in the past. So i wanted to take george and i wanted to take this episode to kind of drill into them because it ties up really nicely couple of concepts that we've been talking about so once again. It's alex shandy here. and along with With george Episode five margin calls. George has it going bud. good good to be with the again for this Fireside chat That were were doing Metaphorically speaking Spent a while With the holidays but glad to be back with you guys the crazy times lately. Yeah things are things are good you know with the pending shutdowns or re shutdowns. I should say It there seems to be some silver linings. I i see people out a little bit more than when when things. I shut down in the spring of this past year so Yeah good stuff. All the way around i I'm definitely excited about today Simply because a lot of this news Ends in the in kind of the stuff we're gonna talk about You know should be kind of standard fare of how we're gonna proceed with this podcast into the distant future. I mean there's only so much market history you can talk about even though you could get really granular into it but You know are envisioned alex. When we first white paper this thing was to talk contemporary while teaching market dynamics and and then a little bit of inside baseball about how things were done in how new technology new regulations and just new markets which are coming online change the paradigm. You know the story. That's constantly being continuously written. So yeah. I mean anyone putting. It's putting the it's allowing the listener to sort of put the pieces together and put the context together of of things as they happen today and how they fit into the larger picture and how they fit in the narrative sort of fits into existing stories. Our existing narratives that That her that are there are ongoing and today's episode. I think it's it's sort of started certain deputies in a certain way because they're two topics who wanna talk about that sort of in the in the news And they're topics that we touched on in great detail in in past episodes it new though we were talking about it. They're more from an historical context perspective. But the one thing i wanted to touch on was End of november november thirtieth the commodities futures trading commission so the regulatory body that that purportedly oversight oversees. The commodity exchanges in in the united states came out with an interim report about what happened in the infamous wti negative print Entered the may contract back in april that i think we need to dig into for an we're gonna nuance it in a different way. We're not here to tear that report because quite honestly wasn't much of a report And then the second one was that hit the news wires just less than a week ago. was veto one of the whether the largest swiss-based commodity traders Agreeing to pay a record fine In some cases in one hundred sixty million others hundred and thirty five million in a settlement with the department of justice because of Bribery scandals that they got implicated in in brazil and ecuador and mexico And again this goes back to the come to our episode that we talked about the scoundrels jerks bastards The sort of the the grandchildren bark rich. If they're the viewers are remember that Episode three And i think it's it's a nice way to go back and and sort of tie that story into Into contemporary events but to start off with. let's start off with the ftc. And and and obviously georgian. I have some pretty strong opinions of the event itself when we got the negative trenton. Wd i'm how the exchanges andled it And i think the interim report by the governing authority here in the united states really quite honestly if anything has probably hardened our position with regards to sort of systemic failure and the issues off trust in the mechanisms that underlie these type of exchanges. I'll i'll i'll preface it that way but at saints george you can have give us a bit of a summary and then we can get into what that means at least from for margin calls perspective Sure yeah i mean at the end of the day You know the things we talked about in prior episodes Great song you know. This is a chorus or refrain. Because we you know. The first couple of verses were about market manipulation and You know we touched on it. And then you know the big commodity merchants in episode three You know the refrain of today's episode. Were were clearly echoing. Alan what we spoke about but owing to our analogy that this is a story. That's constantly being rewritten Or nice use me rewritten. But continuously written this is just a new chapter or page or a volume in things that have always taken place. There's nothing new that's right. I mean if this simulation software he'd still glitchy right. Yeah and and and things are happening in a weird way. That sort of reminds you of things that have happened already. And you go well That's weird. I didn't think that this could happen again. But here we go again right. Yeah and you know one of the five regulators. you damn berkovitz was his name. he's you know he's a democratic commissioner of the cfpb or a c- In so i think of the five three are kind of republican base into but he kind of put it really. Well when he says you know at best it was incomplete and inadequate and it was. General is its general recitation or regurgitation. My words not of economic conditions in the weeks days leading up to april twentieth. I mean and i and i wholeheartedly agree with that comment Put another way in my words. You know the cftc just kinda came up with the dog ate our homework Added i wouldn't even. I wouldn't even be that charitable it it it read like and and be honest with you i. I read an eye scan the report. Maybe not as detailed as you did George but it read like you. This was this was a paper assignment to an econ. Two hundred level college all actually one up. You and i would as head third grade book. Report mia maybe right. Actually the crappiest report i've ever i've ever ian event from a regulatory agency. It was that bad so you have a market and prices can either go up or down and own it. Going up is good down. It's it's like okay. So so what You know what really happened. And we've spoken to in the prior episodes five ratings right and we could get granular and spent three and a half hours. If you guys can go back and listen to that episode of game right. Yeah but we. We really don't wanna do that. Because we've already essentially expounded on And spoke to the the the real variables that were just already unknown in apparent. But the the taboo the the five hundred pound gorilla in the room that nobody wants to talk about is the high frequency algorithm trade shops that literally the exchanges somewhere along the lines and regulators and regulatory bodies were complicit and allowing them to make a deal with the devil so to speak where the lion's share of the liquidity day in and day out is run by computers. And you'd have something going on where there's market hysteria. They know how to press and caused volatile swings. Or if they don't know they'll just hit a kill switch and pull bids and offers and rub pulls in foundations fall out from underneath you. In a market. See the market crash of two thousand ten in the stock market And and that's the taboo that nobody wants to talk about simply because if they do they'll have to acknowledge the regulators. this is now the exchanges. You can argue moral hazard but at the end of the day. They're there to make money and however they're gonna however whatever they can get past regulatory and politically they're gonna do. And if it if it bodes well for them financially. Almost it almost read like they went out of their way. Not to not even broach the subject at all because were because they would have necessarily been complicit in this enron and now you're at second and third order questions of what the hell are you guys even doing you have one job and you're in every april fifteenth y- museum and fifteen million not fifty millions of other americans cut checks part which goes to your budget and it pisses me off every year as i'm sure it does you alex Even if you're if you're fortunate to have to write that kind of check but in the back of your mind need at least like to think. Well it's just because it keeps the barbarians outside of the city walls but unfortunately in this case it's almost the barbarians are sitting on the committees them when they come and when they come in with a woops. Ma bad battelle still take your tax dollars to justify their existence at least a bad taste in everybody's mouth and and and the facts and the we talked about it a bit right there there've been there've been immediate effects in the way y'all contracts are written or repairs miserable floors they are. There are physical floors for from physical producers. That literally said 'cause you now. We said that that that april twenty settle was put into a big a big marker for physical at cushing. Oklahoma called cma calendar month average. You take the settles of every calendar day and An even trade month averages trade month average countermand hours but that negative thirty seven settle went into the average for that month and head dragged everything down on a price and and so nobody knew the next day if prices continue to negative as or if they were going to hover around five dollars or something and they people legal departments were scurrying between buyers and producers and refiners end users of crude oil insane. No matter what happens we're gonna pay about nine to ten bucks a barrel because that's a key because people don't trust anymore the mechanism being able to You know the circuit breakers or whatever the failsafe mechanisms because of the because of the sort of the fast bargain that's instruct with algorithms trading to provide liquidity For for for for for market purposes but giving that that form of liquidity and output the ability to shut it off which they would say with the algorithms have a had their own circuit breaker but the market doesn't anymore and that was the difference from we talked about markets and exchanges in. The old bit is the floor brokers. The people that were in the pit wouldn't they had a duty to maintain order in the market so they would From that perspective and people always argued about the inefficiency or the self dealing that the pit traders had and it happened and that was fisher and the efficiency of electronic trading. Yes there lot of benefits that came from that. I think from my perspective georgia's what i would have wanted to see is not a recitation of your what happened. Your alex george can tell you that on the margin call five cast at infinity him but what i would have liked to seen as a. We recognize this happened. We recognize that there two or three things that are structural defect in this market that have significant if they continued to persist would have significant would erode the the the trust and confidence in these markets. And y'all what out of liked to scene was maybe. Hey we're going to set up a commission or a body to go study these and come up with recommendations on how we mitigate this you know. It's you know we were talking about this in our in our in our prep call george of recall yellow. The one thing in the airline business right. What's bad for the airline business. Crashes that kill people right I it's it's confidence-sapping if you noticed something in in in throughout the history of airlines is no two accidents ever replicate themselves. Because when one accident happens they figure out quickly how they gonna work around that either through process or procedure or or or technical engineering changes so that the same accident never replicates itself. Because that's a confidence building mechanism. That's that's in the system What what i thought from the cftc was absolute garbage And to to to to georgia's point was you have one job. I mean a come back to the old office space Quote you know. What is it exactly that you say you do. Here is my question to the. Yeah and and and to echo your point even more. These guys are sitting here and just telling us what we've already known and they're too afraid because of their own political. You know the political fallout. That could happen it. Should they take some of the blaine you know as far as culpable outright culpability. You know even though the rhythmic trade shops caused it. I don't hold them. You know an any real blame simply because they were just playing with the rules that were set forth the complicity in the blame lies on the regulators checked off on it And and with the exchanges of because of the moral hazard and the deals they made with the devil so to speak And on top of that switching on the fly to that model When they emphatically stated via email still looking for it by the way as i stated in my inbox but that they were you know you needed an eight to eleven dollars hell before they would switch to that and put that as a possibility on the table yet intra-day while prices were falling. They just decided to do it on the fly and give notice after the fact. There's needs to be some real culpability in consequences there because if you say you're gonna do something you know that it's almost like a. It's a caused contractual agreement and it sets the playing field at least for the coming days and that was completely just impromptu just scrapped and people started share the exchange of started shooting from the hip. So there's that but then on top of a on top of everything else. Nobody wants to to tackle this problem. Because it will like i said cast blame on the ones who are supposedly in power to to and make sure these things don't happen but owing to your to your example if a pito tube like in the airbus won the tubes that Were supposed to gauge the wind speed and if the plane was going too fast You know the the brazil cra- the flight air drills the air france the tubes froze or or condensation frozen so the airspeed could not be telemetry. Couldn't be read by those tubes and so the plane kept going faster and faster thinking it was going to stall and it went so fast at the wings blew off well that was a defect and you can fix. The defect p took tubes. Maybe they were old 'cause they'd probably functioned for years. But like you know your mechanism like you said it's wirtz immediately addressed and then it literally confers confidence because they come up with a remedy whether it's processes procedures or actual engineering innovations or better Betterment here you have the stage set that it's almost inevitable. Aversion of this is going to happen again right. Fits yacht a stock market crash. In may of twenty ten where the stock market went down thirty to forty percent and then and then closed up or level on the day but a lot of people got hurt on the way down or producers getting hammered because prices they have to pay somebody hypothetically forty dollars to take a barrel of oil that they've spent to get out of the ground. These things are going to continue to happen when they won't repeat you know stock market and may twenty ten crude oil in april of twenty twenty. So obviously they're not exact route repetition of what happened but it sure did rhyme. And and new instances will arise as long as you have the stage set where conditional liquidity computer trading shops is allowed to be the market share day to day liquidity in the paper markets. And so i. I don't know if it's a good thing george that at least one of the commissioners is come out publicly and sort of said. The same thing that were saying about. This report is being. You know to to mildly highly natta. Quit we don't need a recitation of what happened. We need to figure out how we're going to prevent this from happening. You need a good. I don't know but You know it's it's it's a grandstanding. From one of the commissioners is is is is not enough. I think that has to be sort of Public display of actions taken. Say we get it. We get this type of this type of activity or these type of events. Israeli bad for business A at a at least at a base level and these are the things that we're going to take into consideration to figure out your how how we make the system a bit more robust than it is. That's that's the part that you didn't see that really pissed me off and it. Well as as a cynic which. I'm working hard in my latter years not to be A good to be skeptical. Not good to be cynical. But i don't actually think it's gonna come about from this because the people that were hurt. Don't play well in the media. This happens again. In the equities markets. Were mom and pop. 401k's get hurt. The outrage will be there and the and the you know. They talked about this vega group that they're trying to to pin a collusion for manipulating prices on them. Whether or not anything comes of that is almost material. And it's analogous to the twenty ten may twenty ten flash crash where they tried to Pin a almost the lion like the entirety of the crash on a guy in his mom's basement who was worth a few million dollars in head his own little computer trade shop and he he was. He was spoofing bids and asks in for those of you out there. That don't know what's spoofing means. When you put an offer on a screen you click a button. And say i want to buy. But i want to buy it at this level. And it's not trading there are want to sell it at this level but it's not trading their that shows up on the screen in what's called depth of market so even though the price that you want to get done at is not trading. Should it go up there. You'll have a market order and you can see that in certain windows in your platform trading platform But then a lot of times algorithms will use that because when you have somebody offering something high. Sometimes markets almost like a magnet gravitate towards where there's a lot of of bids or excuse me offers up top or below where the bids are lower and the and then they pull them last minute to just drive the price down for whatever other reason and that's called spoofing. This guy was doing it manually. Which means you was. You know on a computer with a mouse pad and a keyboard and doing it and they were trying to pin it on him but the computers and the algorithms trade shops do that all the time an on a they do it on nanoseconds and they do it all the time and yet. That is completely legal. So this is one of these. These fundamental problems will. What's good for the goose. Should be good for the gander and the people. Are you know people are gonna get tired of it because just ahead and arbitrary head on a spike which that's been the old mantra remedy. It isn't gonna it's not gonna go. It's not gonna be worth anything anymore. Because when these things continue to happen and they have a lot of the same variables people are finally gonna say a what the hell are you doing is regulators to justify your existence. The you are an alternative market will show up as is the as is the way that would that will at least Sell itself on having a better better Confidence in it and put out a business the the incumbent market you get through that that can happen in their their examples of that. I wanna i want to sort of shift into another sort of Contemporary piece of news at that kind of in a certain way. Piggybacks off of this when you talk about market confidence but in a different win and and it may sound like maybe castigating the regulatory agencies here But but but in a certain sense we're talking about regulatory agencies in this story doing their job in in for a market participant. But it's it's it's it. It comes back to the same issue of confidence in underlying markets. And we'll see if we can tie that up for you. I am not making any promises but the other big news That came out and this is something we we kind of touched on If if if folks remember episode three when we're talking about commodity players the different types of traders that were out there and came up sort of story where y'all trading is a game or game is it is an activity where you're always looking for through inside through data through analysis through Sheer Risk-taking looking for opportunities to make money that others haven't identified yet and they're different ways to go about it. there's your algorithm ick trading is one way to do it if you think about that as it's mechanism to make money by trading in super super short-term so legal ways pseudo-legal ways. You know where you're skirting areas where there nor rules and then there's absolutely illegal ways and we talked about our bitten in the story and it's funny ids here. We go le- veto Settling with the department of justice in the united states to pay a fine of depending on the source hundred. Thirty five one hundred sixty million dollars. for activities where they were accused of paying bribes To national oil. Companies in brazil's petrobras ecuador and And and mexico on tenders Where they were they were bidding to buy fuel oil from these producers in order to mark them Where vito and all these big trading companies. Y'all know how the where which part of the market is supplied witches and where the logistics are to move things that a prophet And and they engage in quite an elaborate scheme and from what i could read for multiple Sources it's it went all the way to the top your they were paying people to facilitate them understanding what the lowest bid on a tender for buying fuel oil was During an auction set by these national l. companies and making sure once they had that information that they that they bid price that would secure the business for them. What we're talking about here before we go into that. Alex limits for for listenership and our wildcatters out there. Let's let's talk about the process of how these tenders are rendered in the bidding process and because that highly contrast and leaves a lot of room for this kind of corruption simply because As one banker. I heard put it. You know. Most of the businesses done belly to belly or face to face and so and it's a relationship business in the physical space whereas to contrast that with the screen. All you do is see a number and a volume behind it. And if you're a buyer and you have enough margin or liquidity to buy or sell it at that number you get done at that number and you could get in the minutia saying well you when you click the button. It doesn't get done as fast because the inter- the algorithms again they come up in can beat you to the conscience so much more transparent mud negotiating again. So yeah so. Whereas i wanna buy ten thousand barrels of west texas intermediate or on cme based platform Or or ice based platform. I want to sell You know a ten thousand barrels of of of brandt t. brent crude oil that settles In the in the in the north atlantic You know let's let's contrast that financial paper electronic trading transparent model with the physical you know in not necessarily in latin america. Even though you know you do have to. You do have to acknowledge that. A lot of these things happen. More prevalent lii in that region of the world yet. But it's not just there. I mean we're talking about this is this is how product is marketed. In latin american african parts of asia the middle east it is completely negotiated and a business a lot of these companies that say these national companies. They don't have the infrastructure to go market. Some of the cuts of the barrel Themselves beyond their domestic consumption. So what they do is they. Put it out to tender to auction. and then they you know the big trading companies in the intermediaries will come and they'll bid to buy those volumes of than they can go distribute that to people who needed whether it's taking it out of brazil to south africa or to To to to to europe to rotterdam or even taking all the way to singapore They have a feel for where the demand is where prices are where the arbitrage is where they can make money. They do that in particular. Because of their global spo scope of we right could they have people on the ground every but we you know we we. That was kind of one of the premises. We outlaid that margaret. Did he said right. A as opposed to being a major who had knee has a bunch of money. And i have all this money in a bucket or bank account. And i can go buy a bunch of coudl. I'm going to move to switzerland. Ap because i'm on the run. And i can't live in the united states anymore but they have stone which break a. That's most important. Because people want my head on a spike for money or food for oil in iraq dealings and other things but on top of that they have a huge banking industry that the banks would literally pony up the capital and and you know obviously take their five percent finance cut or whatever that number ever was but you could get a lot. More leverage and their niche lied in not only being able to leverage that unintended but also because they had relationships across the globe and knew how to optimize logistics getting it from one place to a mortar is efficiently as possible to capture the most profitability. So so the sir ids. There is sort of a ceiling on your profitability Because it's driven by supply demand. It is primarily volume business. Right if you can make your net net yon. I'm just making up numbers here. Let's say two dollars a barrel taking a fuel oil fuel oil out of that say brazil and marketing in singapore. You know and then that's about the limit of what you can make Your what. Your job admirals right. The job is to get her many barrels and shove it into that into that Into that differential as possible so ends the motivation. Is y'all if there is an inbuilt two dollar margin to take stuff from brazil to to singapore in our pathetic. And i am someone who has access to logistics and vessels and i can. I can do it for net. Two dollars prophet then. I am motivated to find as many barrels possible to put into their And then just managed the logistics and collect the money and to do my best to price as aggressively yet high enough as possible to win the bid win right and that and that is that is the root of the corruption. That was being that that was being talked to. I mean at the end of the day these guys who got an wild vitale is given the mea culpa and they still get to say you know i guess they know fawley pay. The rail admitted no fault even though they acknowledged that traders did do this since from twenty. Two thousand five up until twenty twenty. This was done And On but they still maintain the zero tolerance policy for corruption. It's hard to believe that that could be the kittens. meow how to call them out. But i guess you got to. Because it's such as. I mean if you look and in fifteen i mean i i write years day knew you. We're going off published reports from you. Know i've i've read actually the filing by the justice department but then also on the financial times are bloomberg But you know they're saying okay. Vitale's done this but they also cite that young not only as as glencore been cited but traffic yours rafi gun for. Yeah for all look. This is the reality folks right and this is why i guess if us tied together by georgian guy and i get really pissed off when people aren't allowed to play around with a system that is as highly as if all the one in north america from a transparency and a An friction lewis transaction perspective that the exchanges Because lacking that. This is what you deal with right. You deal with murky Secondary markets and relationship based business. And the fact that you're it's not a level playing field which you're bribery. Cases will show immediately that people being bribed to make sure that they get an in on business whereas other people won't get Won't get access to that business. Because they are your. They're prohibited from engaging in these types of activities and if you're us-based corporation the foreign corrupt practices act is something that every oil company here takes very very seriously because again going back to my old analogy there to places in the world that you really don't want to screw up and bring the wrath of the government down on us united states in the eu. I'm not saying anything about singapore places like that. I'm sure it's the same but generally so you have this un an unlevel or uneven playing field where this type of activity happens. Vitale just got slapped on the hand for one hundred thirty five to one hundred sixty million dollars which is not chump change at all right but it just shows how high the stakes are in securing this business to make To in order to make your make your revenue right and and owing to the thing To the edge of how competitive it is. I mean it literally came down to knowing the guy the trader petrobras who could who could give them what they call the gold number which was the number of that the highest bidder in in the tendering offered and veto would get that intel and they would be the only ones because they had the relationship belly to belly with the with the petrobras trader and that guy got paid roughly eight million bucks and eight million dollars and so and it was hot. The invoices were cut as market intel and consulting fees and find her caribbean bay. Company in offshore. Assery minyard's chambers. Yeah it it becomes like drug dealing at that point but but we need to kind of like specify what the golden number was in so because of the relationship nature especially in the physical side of the business You know you have to the same number. Well if the guy who has the stroke and gets to make the decision nali has the relationship. Personally i that's why most likely gay and then they would have to use spoof email accounts i think his name was phil collins or something like that. Yeah fell collins in boo-boo or dab and offer all sorts of the funnel through various email accounts. So as not to to to show a pattern but Yeah same guy giving him the golden number and it's just like okay shop a nv tall shot be given the same number. We like vitale because we do a lot of business with them. we think. Integrate better partner. Let's give it to veto all the while. The guy who did the the work and did the the analysis. The work came up with the right number. He gets left out in the cold and unbeknownst to him. Just you know. We of month over month year over year losing bids when he did all the right legwork and he just got he got ousted he never got awarded any and and i don't think he was quite binary where they got all of them. Because you gotta spread it around or else that also looks fishy right alex. But but but but you know it could be argued that the lion's share went to them and and with that costco model versus a mom and mom and pop general store. Where you gotta move a lot of volume to make two bucks a barrel worth your while. You have the capability to do that. Because you're global scope and footprint and the logistics via shipping and refining. You know how to optimize You know you really got to win as much volume as you can. and so. that's where those corrupt relationships of knowing the guy and being able to grease the grease the hands in the wheels of the of the corruption machine you know pays dividends and and it's. It's really sad if you think about it. Because it's it's positively reinforces itself especially if you get away with it for fifteen years. You know yup yup an- and and again it's like we said it's it's glitch in relation software suite. Need the same thing happening over and over again and recessio- okay. Well that's just a function. it's a function of the markets. The function that you have to err would sort of state owned entities and and you have to deal with opaque parts of the market. Where things aren't that transparent. I think a few years ago. George was in the same as at line del where they were they were they got a guy that was you know was making a ton of money off of office shipping contracts on the back of line dell's business. Yeah i know lined. Al turned out to be the victim because this guy was sort of operating on his own but he got hauled up in front of a federal judge in and was convicted. And i think sent to jail but it was the same thing right. He had set up sort of side businesses with certain people. And who's he was setting sending shipping contracts to to preferential parties. and and taking a kickback. For for for for for his company's business so it happens it does happen And even happened in the united states with a bp trader and scheduler bp trader left to go to mercury area which is another swiss-based commodity merchant. But going up to their denver houston office in his scheduler stayed back and fed him spreadsheets a fundamental positions of that. They has heard or for products in crude oil. And it actually made the financial times because of a law because The the scuttle but for my my friends it'd be p who knows No these individuals that the main trader left and I can find his name and the scheduler and the scheduler longtime respected guy in the sense that he was good at his job he had personal problems with substance abuse and would often come to work. You know inebriated. And because he'd been there so long valued they you know worked with him and he let spill the beans one when he was on his last straw. Come to work drunk after signing promises after multiple bouts of rehab Comes toward drunk. Monday gets called out and says well. I'm not gonna be working here anyway. And he was getting a job with his old boss the new shop and when they started doing forensic digging on his computer they found a treasure trove of kissed. You know spreadsheets of inventories in position. Reportings that were sent to his old bought his old boss be p now working for somebody else and it was being used to trade around. Bp and exploited and it really upset a lot of people. I know entirely because they liked these individuals on a personal level And then not only that. But but the the scrutiny that the management at bp had now on folks on the trade desk was ratched up so much made their lives. More difficult i mean. Look at me not to pick on b but george if you remember the the the scandal around and jail pricing. That happened. What fifteen years ago. To where your bp was was accused of fixing prices or colluding on prices in in natural gas liquids in the center of the country The the the the repercussions were so heavy that the cftc had observers sitting on the be trade for desk and listening in on every conversation And this was back in the day. When i was trading in and you could call your counterpart at bp or chat but there are certain words you couldn't say because Everything was being recorded. Even aeon was in mike. You were saying that for ill intent but you know just off the cuff saying they squeeze you have to say. Can't say right exactly because those would be we so we could squeeze in in two hundred forty seven crude oil days saying squeeze on the phone was an a trading sense Was like saying bomb on a plane is get fired at theatre but more bomb on a plane. I mean there's exits on a theater bombs on a plane. Everybody's going down. So you know. United states short termism and that kind of stuff that that sort of leads to sort of heavy-handed regulation and then it does sometimes that regulation. I mean it's there's a reason right. It happens because someone got caught with a hand in the cookie jar but at the end of the day what happens is it comes on market unevenly and it can also distort the market In a in a in a certain fashion so long story short. It's it's sort of in a weird way ties back needs to ties back to georgia. Georgian is Sort of fundamental position. And why we kinda find y'all sort of When when when the sanctity of a market that has evolved to the stage that it has especially here north america When there are systemic problems that are being ignored by the regulators And then you look at things like the. The bribery scandal had vitale with petrobras her and the extent to say that's the alternative. If this goes down that's what happens right you go back to that and that is truly uneven And that's when you get this all these staffer shenanigans that you sort of associated as the dark side of the dark corners of the market And and that's why we sort of take it really seriously That the regulators do the job do their job And and when they don't we of get a bit emotional about it or because because this this system in in in the west E- you but america. The united states in particular is the best. There is out there and there are so many naysayers who you know. Speak of of of the the bad drawbacks and deleterious aspects of capitalism. And if there's not you know it's not capitalism that they're they're really speaking to even though they're conveniently blanket it's the crony capitalism and the cronyism is what gives it a bad rap and if that's not policed inside from from people who who want to you know who believe in it and believe in its validity. And it's in its sanctity in that sense. Not a spiritually like market spiritual or anything. But you get what i'm saying. You know we if we don't police in call it out internally it's gonna give more traction and credence to the naysayers to the people on the street who just might be ambivalent or agnostic. And at the end of the day mobs can mobs in mob hysteria. If they don't like something and they don't even necessarily have to have a complete understanding picture they can. They can cause a lot of damage to institutions right otherwise set up to be a net. Good for people right right. That's part of yeah. That's that's that's absolutely a great point and the fact that a lot of people out there You may complain about the system but the system is evolved to a certain a point to being as efficient as it is what you shouldn't be complaining about his assistant me should be complaining about sort of cronyism or the object lazy Aspect of of the oversight of the system D- wrongdoers should be punished accent in the case if you're bribing your way and you're distorting the market And add to create an unplanned unfair playing field. And you get caught. Yes you deserve the punishment meted out to you But when there are systemic issues that could undermine the confidence of a market that has taken decades to evolve to to wear. It is to a sophisticated level. And you're ignoring it with third grade. Book report Type analysis. You know you deserve to get called out for that and not that you know. I'm claiming that we we have a voice here but we're we're we're calling it out because Because the alternative for to the system not having the system is way way worse and i think a lot of people a lot of the woke ism today especially you know not to get into too much of a of a here. People don't realize y'all how good the system as and it needs to be protected from cronyism rather than asking for the system be burnt down because of an imperfect understanding of of what the alternative really means idiots simplisafe overly simplistic purposely simplistic understandings. Like almost where want and ignorance is and some sort of esoteric bullshit is is put forth as woke and it just kind of sounds cool but it's it's just sophistry. It's words for the sake of words. It does absolutely nothing. It solves no problems. It just is adversarial and it speaks to. It speaks to some mantra of oppressive markey. And it's like know not to get. I'm just looking for my. You know if i if i supposedly fit a demographic that is privileged. I look in the mail. And i'm looking for my check and it's just not there you know it's one of these things where the market does have its issues but it's really is the best that's out there and it's incumbent on us as market participants as citizens that essentially our tax dollars are votes. Keep these institutions in place or at least the government's in place that allow these institutions to function and in these in these institutions and regulatory bodies need to do the job in which they were charged with and they're being funded for for and if they can't and it's always it a negligent. We're always doing a post mortem and just slapping people on the wrist after the fact and like like a like a cop have to come in and tape off a crime scene then then when when they're charged with kind of getting ahead of things and policing things real time on the then what the hell are we doing here. Why are been real estate values. Go down right and people move out right. District offers and and and you don't have investment in the neighborhood. You have food banks and homeless shelters or whatever yeah social safety nets have to be put in place right because everybody's leaving and the for infrastructure becomes dilapidated and nobody could trust being in the neighborhood and the trap now. It's not a place to live. It's it's literally placed at your entrapped in any rank get out so all good philosophical arguments you know at the end of the day We really you know. I think that's one of the things we've charged ourselves with both Both as accountability partners and internally of of calling out bad actors even though You know we understand why it's done you know and we speak to the history of how there's nothing new under the sun but it's very much incumbent on us and everybody who has vote or just has a mind in an interest To understand these concepts should they decide to get involved in and to to understand the good and the bad so that hopefully the bad can be somehow just excised. Correct it best Can realistically in humanistic possible his. There's always like it says in the bible You know the poor will always be with us. Corruption on some sort of level will always be there But the goal is to mitigate it as best as possible while set join awesome. I'm going to paula. Joe biden said. Let's call a lid on this episode. I think i think i think I think it was It it was a nice tie in because we sort of these two events that tied nicely into stuff that we sort of setting up the context for and like you said george going forward this is sort of the whole reason why we set up the context of we talk about sort of contemporary issues. You can tie it back to a story. You can tie it back to events Our our purpose here is allow you. You paint the canvas so that when you look at the sky you can. You can tied the put a line. The dots together and put a story within the context of Of its place in in the larger story we did promise you the last episode that we talk about enron i think enron is a is a perfect example of y'all sort of the system collapsing on itself For various other reasons. I think we can no onset a bit better than that We absolutely will bring that to you. maybe as soon as the next episode We thought it was too rich. Not to let these two things hap that that came into the public sphere not to not to vote a an episode to to talk about it so We hope you've enjoyed it as always send us your feedback We look forward to speaking speaking with you guys soon on the next episode george. Thanks alex yeah. I appreciate the time as always Pleasure buddy four shows.

brazil george america Alex sandy alex shandy george Episode cftc commodities futures trading co berkovitz alex george alex department of justice george perez George ecuador natta
Michael Dee - No Room for Gloom

Shares for Beginners

32:17 min | 1 year ago

Michael Dee - No Room for Gloom

"Good I am moving back to shares for begins on Phil Muscat Eli now before we start with today's guest. I just wanted to have a quick word with you about the listener survey page on my website. I've been directing listeners to give me feedback and to get some more information about you, but what I'm finding is that I've got no way of responding to you so I'm going to be shutting down that survey and I just wanted to recklessness. If they wanted to continue the conversation, we've got a new facebook discussion, group and shares for. For beginners, all lower case one way, and we can all start chatting. There's bad seventy or eighty members there right now, and we'd love to welcome you along to learn a bit more. The other thing I just want to point out is a lot of people asking me questions as though on some kind of, but now I'm not an expert what I'd really love people to do when they contributed to. The page is to have a question. That I've answered for themselves to bring that to the group as well because we're all trying to together. Back today's podcast, I'd like to welcome out guest. He's been on the podcast before. Michael Day of Pythagoras investing good Michael I feel hey got good. Sorry to put you through all that having to listen to that. Promo, we're trying to get listeners to do some work. That's excellent. That's a good idea because that's the why we landed. You are I'm not. So Michael This conversation. We're about to have came about because we were chatting about the future. I'd been speaking with. A broker who's also been a guest on previous episodes of this podcast. We were both in furious agreement about the disastrous long-term economic effects of covid, nineteen in the lockdowns are then spoke with your Michael, and you had a more positive view about markets despite the economic repercussions in gloom. Michael. Please explain Gosh. That's a pauline Hanson reference. Look. To say that I was positive on the economy wouldn't be entirely correct, but the reality is that the stock market is not the economy and we have to understand that and separate those two concepts. Now when we were speaking, it was I was actually far more comfortable with what I'd seen of. Let's call it the other saw. And what that means is I had drawn a great amount of comfort in the prospects of recovery. And in that stock markets can draw great comfort. And Win they draw comfort shape process. Begin to rise now. I think even in that conversation I, said to you. I expect the numbers in terms of economics and earnings to fall, and I still expect that. But you've seen as I, have a bottoming of the market. which was about the twenty third or fourth of March from four thousand? Just before we got on here, we should Tom Stamp. They step aside that were recording on Tuesday June second twenty twenty second day of winter, absolutely so we were talking, wrote about the end of March, and for me I had a very good understanding of which tron was up to, and the Chinese economy was starting to come out of lockdown and. The notion I had in my mind at that moment was I could see no better place to invest in the world. But it also gave me a leading to understand what an economy would begin to look like once covid nineteen had passed. So, it gave me the confidence to be optimistic, even knowing that the economy was going to get worsens and stupid I will. So. That's why I had five Rydell level of optimism I knew in the middle of March that we couldn't see the down. We couldn't see the ABSO-, and the markets were accelerating quickly on the downside as soon as we got a grip on what was going to be. That's when markets turned, so it's really important difference to think about an economy versus a market. Now if we add to that. I'm sure you would know. But twenty six percent of the top two hundred stocks by market white is in banks. And not only that Itin sent in Maynas and thirteen percent in one company in the healthcare sector, Cold Commonwealth Serum laboratories will see so. So when not looking at a mimic of the economy, we are really looking at a very artificial instrument, so that probably explains a little bit more. Of while I was able to be more optimistic, even knowing that stock markets overshoot by that I mean they go to positive and I go to negative. So that's way we were at that stage, so even banks markle I mean. Look at the trouble that banks seem to be going into and if housing process crash that's GonNa have a terrible effect on the share. Price of banks isn't. So, I'm not a big lover of banks at the moment, the pressure that haven't mentioned this before. The pressure brought to bear from the government on the banking sector means that the banks again have to cop more bad debts. and. There's an old adage that says if you're gonNA, have a disaster. You might as well have a big one. And by the banks, estimating the house process will be down. Twenty thirty percent, and then making provision against the Prophet in one year. It seems to me that they're having a bad year in one year, and they've got the opportunity to write back the that bad debt provisions in Yeast Com. which goes positive towards their prophets? But having settled of that. There's more bad debts in the system. There are lots of people unemployed. There are lots of people who can't pay their debts. That's a sad reality of the environment wherein. So in terms of banks I I'd have a level of real excitement or interest for the next twelve months. In terms of housing. My view is different. In that, I think housing will line. They go down three to five percent. and. Win Covid nineteen. Shine to be roughly ending. What will sees a resurgence in interest in housing because they're out a lot of places to invest your money in inverted commas safely and people view property is safety and so. At the moment we're going through a process of having house prices, some revised downwards where they have to sell and others simply not moving their price or withdrawing that property for sale and real estate dot com I showed in April, a reduction of thirty three percent on the previous year's listings. So that's already happening. Property's already coming off the pressure. The white of sellers is coming out of that market, so we actually believed that by Christmas. Time it almost be as if covid nineteen never happened to the property market. So, that's quite different. Fill the other thing is? People looked to do more basic things when they're under jurists. So instead of selling their home because they looking for something bigger I may add a room. They may have become todd of the Drab full-strength lockdown and WANNA pint. They may want to fix the bathroom or a kitchen and their stocks that can benefit from that as a for instance, if you've driven past bondings recently, the line out of Buntings, and therefore was farmers is almost GW. I is another company that fits bathrooms or or provides the products for for bathrooms and kitchens crime as one of their brands. So even at a grassroots level just by looking around the neighborhood. We can see WHO's doing well, and who's not so what kind of market recovery say actually on the of Sane? The always different alphabets is an alphabet of the recovery whether it's Avai shei-pa, recovery or a w recovery or a long extended. You shape recovery. What the heck you see the market recovery so the market again very differently from the economy. The economy is probably u-shaped. If you wanted to reference. But the market I see is anticipating their the recovery and earnings much more quickly. Now it's my belief that we're GONNA. Be In for a heavy stock pickers market for the coming twelve months, but in all what I see is about a five percent reduction on our house in February of Twenty twenty one. So at high was about seven, thousand, one, hundred fifty, and what I'm saying is I believe that we'll get to six thousand eight hundred at the time of February of Twenty twenty one. Now what that means is we've still got a fair bit of upside, and we could still end up not having too much damage. As long as people choose the wrought sixes, and the rot stocks, and a much more proactive with the investors investments as time goes by that guy say. Michael talked about the banks, but are there any other thoughts about particular sectors that you'll be looking at during that time period I think oil and gas is a very interesting place to be on the basis that. The last number of months, oil and gas providers, engineers and others have been really hit hard, and at first I was seventy percent down and the worst sector in the world. Now if you look underneath the hood and think about oil, and what happened when we went into lockdown. We no longer used cows out airplanes and trains, and so the consumption for those very basic things actually went lacking went missing. At that particular time there was a double whammy for royal wasn't there? There was the the lack of consumption, but then there was an oversupply by the major producers at the same time is at the case. Yes that's case. It was in actual fact rooted in the fact that oil is stored in a number of different repositories around the world. And because the oil produces, had actually continued producing for too long too quickly because it's not easy to turn these wells off. The storage facilities were coming up to being full. And you, you might remember that. Oil Got sold down to the monastery seven dollars. which when you look back on, it is more than comical. It's insane. So! You had two things. A lack of demand and a lack of ability to physically store the oil and pushed the price wyde-am in fact after that shock of modest thirty seven dollars, it ended up back at about ten to twelve dollars. Now, Today. Second Day of June. We are back in the low thirties. Pre the corona virus. It was in the low fifties. And one of the most important providers of oil is Shiloh out of the US. Now every time OPEC cut production to try and keep a steady oil price around the world. The US showed. Oil providers fill the gap. So I picked was never getting a benefit out of reducing its oil. It was just handing market. Share to the ink to the Americans. That caused a lot of discontent and I would argue to you today that a lot of the machinations within the oil market have been I in debt, keeping oil price low. To put a lead on the Shiloh providers out of the US. Now! What does that mean for us to die? When now starting to come out of the pandemic, we're now getting back in our automobiles some of us. Aviv in starting to book flights. So as starting to reengage after the cut in production at use of oil, now that has an effect on stocks future earnings, and that has an effect on sentiment, so in terms of oil and gas providers at scenario that I'm really quite attracted to and really see some fantastic returns over the next twelve months. Share. Site is an online portfolio tracking tool that automatically records trades, dividends, ATF, distributions, and gives you the reporting tools. You need to help you manage your portfolio. Share site is place to extend a special offer to listeners of this podcast months free on an annual premium plan. RIC Dot com slash shaves for beginners and sign up now for a free trial before taking advantage of free months it'll help you save money text on and improve your investing decisions. That's dot. com slash shares for beginners. Interesting I was having a conversation with tiny CONISTON. Unite very well. You've appeared on his podcast. A podcast and I wasn't sure whether you're aware. But he was originally from the oil and gas industry I think it was shell. l'idee worked for for a long time. And when I was discussing with him about oil supply, he was just basically saying that. There was going come a point where there was just no where else to put the oil every storage facility. Every oil tanker in the world was absolutely full, and that's exactly what happened. And that's that's what caused people to sell that instrument or the oil instrument down. Remember that when you buy oil contract, you actually have to buy the equivalent of ten thousand barrels of oil. Now I. Don't know about you, but I couldn't put that in my backyard. That rules may out of being I would've participate in that market in any way, shape or form if I have to take delivery. Because all of this oil trading is future biased, and if you take delivery, if you go to the final point on I futures contract, you have to be able to take delivery. So this was A. Extreme set of manipulation in a market which was quite sensitive already so. I. Will be bought wrought books on this topic wider arm in Lav so in terms of ozzy exposure. Accompanies on the air, six expires to this market and the price of oil and gas, which ones you particularly looking at at the moment without giving recommendations. Obviously, thank you. Yes, we we do that then. We're not recommending these she talking about them in general terms that that's raw. If you think about oil and gas in Australia. Probably our biggest is woodside on the north. West Shelf a must magnificent facility. You've got Santos out of South Australia. You've got oil search which uprights out of. PNG. You've got other companies like BP Beach Petroleum so that all giving you an exposure, an approximation to what's going on oil now would saw is not not necessarily dealing in oil died everyday, but what it does is equivalent to oil. So there's. A great big market in Japan and Europe and even China that participates in the products that. Would Sod sill. So. It's not that I'm. Particularly boss towards one of them. The opportunity to participate oil is given to you. Are Any of these companies and some others that I haven't mentioned? We'll let some turn our attention to China. There are many people these days who are becoming quite hostile to China because what they say is the kind of economy they run the way the influenced the having around the world and the blame of course for the virus. We've got a different view of China and the hostility towards them as not necessarily justified absolutely. I think like all things in our world. At the moment there's a lot of misinformation and there's a lot of fake news. Affect us that back to the man in the US. The reality phillies that China is so much a part of our future. It buys so much of our role material, and it's such a Nienaber that to ignore it is nothing short of foolish. We've antagonized the Chinese by having. A foot in the Chana tried camp and the alliance with the US. Now that have put up with that and till really just recently. And as a result of the US, pushing and prodding and making. The world turned toward China and look at them with. Julius is particularly to do with The Koran Avars. They have now started to change the way they used diplomacy, and they've actually named at themselves the Wolf Warrior diplomacy. If. You just think about a Wolf Wyatt Biz its teeth. It's probably the closest approximation to what they've been doing. Now the difficulty with that is even though America talk a lot and acts a little the Chinese talk, little an act a lot. Now we've been having an putting tariffs on Chinese products up to one hundred forty four percent for years and I've complained about it and we've done nothing. And recently, we were given a warning to say if you don't change you a wise way going to impose tariffs on you. And with intend is I think also we had Bali. Now the thing about Bali's. That's pretty much written out farmers out of selling Bali and to China. Did. You feel two days lighter though a buying from the US. Now Something's afoot they. Then not long afterwards. They stopped buying from the a beef abattoirs. And I continued to buy from the beef abattoir was that they've got an Irish initiated. The plot starts to thicken. Now want to take you back a little bit. The start of the Corona Varos as we know it was January. And that's when China started to talk about it, but we also know that it was present in China in Wuhan for some time. We don't know how long, but I want to put this little quizzical piece of information to you. That, at the end of October there were such a thing, called the military games where one hundred countries from all around the world and ten thousand athletes came to compete in the town of Wuhan. which is the the pice Khurana vars emanated from so to actually turn to China and point the finger and blame about corona. Virus I think is premature and foolish. Covered to was exhibited in the US. That's actually a recorded fact. So, this is not a new virus I think what trump's doing here is positioning against Uva and trying to cause the rest of the world to be negative about a communist nation because it suits the agenda. So I think when you look at it in totality and think about Australia and way we live, and where our future is in the growth in China and then the growth in India, we are the luckiest nation on earth in so many ways. That's one of the reasons. So, I'm not negative on China, I am very interested in the bulk providers of on ore and other commodities that we sell into that night and I think there are some wonderful opportunities in Rio, and perhaps for to skew not so much be HP, but opportunities there that give us the opportunity to Mike Money for future for ask super funds for our kids in Iowa of loss and I think that's incredibly important. We don't lose sight of that, and let's face the AFC really. They pulled out chestnuts out of the FI by contributing the greatest terms of tried that Ustralia had overseen to help us through, and really we weren't that. Badly affected by the GMC at the time, absolutely now that was partly because we had very high interest rates relatively, and we had a good debt position in the country, but the one thing China did was pulled out the biggest rescue package. Now they got to buy a lot of commodities. They redirected oil pipelines into their country through that period that benefited enormously, but the GMC, even though Inam memories it lasted a long time. The recovery and all of those buy commodities and stock markets really did happen very very quickly, and it takes me back to a conversation. We were having recently about the recovery in the markets today now the Chinese have not issued a stimulus package of any great. Great substance and that fascinates me and it tells me that the Chinese have an interest in this lasting just a bit longer so that they can do. Extra things accumulate more commodities take advantage of wig processes, and really make a fist of what is an unfortunate situation felicitous of this podcast? If we could to spend a couple of minutes, explaining what a commodity is and y commodities are so important in the Australian economy at the wonderful question. So a commodity, let's give an example. onnell astronomer is naturally gifted with huge quantities of animal. Now, I. Know is what GOES INTO FINISHES TO CREATE STEEL In Australia typically, we've been very good at exporting things that other people use and create products out of and on or is no exception. A lot of I nor get sent to China. It is used in all sorts of infrastructure build including roads rile transport buildings. It's a very integral part of the development of China. Now. What's important to China is to industrial laws, and this is an enormously populous country. They need to consume. Every year twenty to forty percent of the world's commodities, isn't that a staggering fact? Australia is rod on its doorstep, and on its doorstep are some of the biggest on order posits of high quality, and and the correct amount of on. So for us. We've got a natural ability to benefit now. Let's think about the way we benefit. Firstly it employs quite a lot of people. In strider this quite a lot of infrastructure that's built. In and around some of those Ri- Y systems in the North West Shelf the most fascinating pieces of machinery and engineering. You'll ever see now if you add to that. The money then comes into are listed companies. Let's call it. RYOBI HP and for to skew that money is going into Asu comes in terms of earnings and accretion and INA ship process the money from dividends and special dividends the. Rio have paid is going into the hands of the individual investors that's going to paying grocery bills, and buying whatever it is that way desire, and that goes into playing the handyman that comes and fixes the aerial on the rifle. What avert is so that money flows out of China for the industrialization of China into a strident and ricochets. It's why rod across the economy and also the royalties that I pay to the state governments as they dig it out as well. Absolutely, the reality is, it's so important for Australia to make sure that we get that into the right hands. Now Phil. I think the demand for on. Aw is in the order of a billion or more tonnes per annum into John. and. We send about eight hundred seventy I think if my memory's correct into China. And one of the other big producing nations is Brazil, and while the big companies is valley. Of I having trouble with not only the stability of those minds, but getting the product to China and under fashion. Now one thing's for sure you don't tuna blasphemous off in a hurry, and if that product is not reliably as we can do then we've got a problem Houston, so it's it's as science a natural gift. That Estrada has keeps US really revving along. So let's talk about Pythagoras Pythagoras offering and a special deal website that you've set up for this particular podcast, geopolitical and a lot of the things we've spoken about. Today is important because. They move process, and when things happen on the other side of the world that have implications via the ricochet of share process around the world is actually quite significant, and so we're trying to help. People understand a lot of these issues as unfold. So. What we do is a bit different. The stock market is generally analyzed through events, and with those events analysis occurs, and then everyone knows wrong answer and tries to do the same thing at the same time, and that ends up in being an exercise in futility. Now what we do is different. I would call that previous approach reactive. What we're doing is quite proactive. That is that we construct volatility indexes for stock. We measure track. Analyze the changes in volatility as they occur. And what we know is that changes in volatility precede changes in pros. So for our clients where making recommendations to take advantage of that changing process, whether it should be a by ahead of a positive up or sell in front of a downward movement, and what we do is simple to the end user in the we send at about quarter past twelve. The recommendation that's relevant to that stock that people have chosen. And if it's a by the, we oppress limit that you ought to pay if it's a cell as a timing of cell and they critical things when you're dealing in the stock market to know. It takes away the burden of having to do the research and being crosses stock by giving you the ability to be an investor without having to do a DECA. That's what we do, and that's what we get paid for. And so we diversify into stocks in the. We'll buy multiple times through a sock now. Typically a cycle is when a share price pulls back and actually has a reduction in price. You'll see us in. They're buying. And on that webpage that you referred to the which is at web, address www dot. THAGARDS INVESTING DOT COM. Slash S. F. B.. You'll see I referenced to a chop for I to milk. Now. It's the last couple of months of data so that you get an understanding as to what happened. But you see to bouts of buying just full Baas H and then selling. And you see that you have the opportunity in a pullback when the rest of the market dropped eighteen percent, I to milk didn't fall anyway as far, but having the opportunity to be investing in that time, where everybody else's panicked led to our clients for that stop making four lots of non percent on those first full bonds, and then not long afterwards as the market started to regain a little bit more courage, another four buys, which might about another non sent so these opportunities to profit these opportunities to participate in these pullbacks and share price. Variations exhibit themselves old of the Tom. Now the only way to make this real is to say to you that the returns for our seventy stocks. Over the last five years. Realized is I'd seen point two percent. Now at the same time, the stock market hasn't even been I would achieve five percent growth, and so these a calendar years up until the end of December. So I understand fill that a lot of your listeners starting out on the investment journey. And on that basis odd my that because I can remember when I was first starting, and it was a great thrill for me to be investing in the stock. Market's like. Beer, isn't it? Didn't say good that one. But I know that one of the things that I always struggled with as a shortage of capital, and so what I'd like to offer your listeners is the opportunity to participate in one of one, two, three, four or five of stocks that we've chosen and put on the website. For you to buy quite a heavily discounted price at two-thirds off. And then office open for just twelve months. for people to subscribe to from now. And if they can find their why to Mike some money and enjoy investing our why? Would love to have them aboard as in as a clot about. Michael, thank you very much for coming on the podcast again. It's been a great chatting with you. That's a pleasure fill that I. Wish You well and happy investing in what is going to be a year. From the. EXTRA CLEVER! Opportunities I should also add that. You appear quite regularly on Cosby's. Want to find out more about you and you've also been on tiny coniston's Q. V. podcast and I'll put a link in the show nights about that as well so that people can find that absolutely everything they knew about you like I'm Michael Epsilon. That's great. Thanks Phil. Shift begins his information from the educational purposes. Financial Boston you shouldn't buy sell any investments based on what you've heard. He had any opinion. Countries view of the speaker only Shays begins this customer price, professional advice, regarding financial aid circumstances or current situation. Thanks to Christ was awesome music production with special delicious flavor. Remember musical as flows even when the money went.

China US Michael Australia Phil Muscat Eli Twenty twenty Michael Day facebook pauline Hanson Shiloh Mike Money HP OPEC Tom Stamp ABSO
TWiB: Elijah Craig's Old Fashioned Week, The Return of BTAC Maps, and Angel's Envy 2021 Cask Strength Release

Bourbon Pursuit

40:58 min | 1 d ago

TWiB: Elijah Craig's Old Fashioned Week, The Return of BTAC Maps, and Angel's Envy 2021 Cask Strength Release

"Yeah it's this week. Bourbon were kenyan ryan. Come and give you everything that's happening in bourbon news. And here's your headlines. For the week of october fifteenth. Twenty twenty one. Elijah craig is having its second annual old-fashioned week breaking bourbon takes over the batak released map and angels. Nba announces their limited edition. Cask strength release but before we get started. Here's a quick word from our partners. Do you want to know what the experts had to say about managing and operating distillery. We'll check out the university lables. Distilled spirits business certificate. It's a six course. Online program taught in part by real corporate fellows from the most renowned distilleries and startups in the industry or talking brown. Forman jack daniels and more enroll today at u. of l. dot me slash bourbon pursuit. Did you know that maryland held one third of the nation's rye whiskey supply. After prohibition in fact maryland ri- was worth its weight and gold inspired by this history. Sagamore spirit is on a mission to craft the greatest rye whiskey imaginable at their waterfront campus in downtown baltimore visit sagamore. Spirit dot com for more details on their award. Winning whiskeys or to book tour. Welcome everybody to another installment of this week in bourbon where we take a look at all the bourbon news. That's happened since well last week. Kenny and ryan here today. Getting ready to go over the news. And i think we've got some nice headlines. I'm glad we could include our friends over breaking bourbon as well. Yeah those guys do an awesome job i was. I was trying to debate on today. Get you to tell me the topics. Before i go into this or a night research to show up in just see what happens. Let's see what happens. I think that's the best. We'll see how will you do off the cuff here. Let's see how david it's all good. Let's go ahead and get into it. So our first headline is elijah. Craig is recently announced. Its second annual old fashioned week so this is of course they did this last year and it was all virtual and it's virtual somewhat in person again this year but it's a ten day event designed to celebrate the cocktail while also raising money for the restaurant. Workers community foundation allows creek is donating one hundred thousand dollars but they also pledged to donate up to an additional hundred thousand dollars by donating five dollars for each photo of an elijah. Craig old fashioned. That is uploaded instagram. And you use the hashtag old fashioned week. In the also tag elijah craig and those who pose will also automatically be entered into the sweepstakes where they will select five hundred winners at random to receive an old sorry to receive it elisha creek home bark. It allows you. Craig will also donate one dollar for every online sweepstakes registration for the electric craig home marquette and this is going to start taking place from october fifteen th through the twenty four th and you can. Of course do it on instagram. So time to start acting like a bartender yet. You get double points if you use the illogic craig. A old-fashioned mix. I didn't think about it. But what if you i mean. I'm a big fan of the barrel. Proof like what if you start using the not logic crag which you're like oh let's use the eighteen. What's that what's that. give me. We should do it like three times a day. Three logic wreck borough proof. Old-fashioned is a day though. That's that's a disaster waiting to happen. But what if you just make one cocktail but then you ended up taking it at different angles so you just make it one time but you take like fifteen different photos just put in different spots. I'll do it on my account. My wife's account my dad's account even though he doesn't have an account. But you gotta you gotta tile background you got you got it at the gym like just start taking it. Wherever you go. Yeah lahser craig's great barrel barrel-per-day good and even just the standard small batches. A great cox birds a great component for an old fashioned. You know it's bourbon. It's good this is awesome. I think let's barbara community rally around this and let's raise the money for these folks. I agree that's why i put as a headline. i think it's a big one so let's go in and look at what also has been happening and this is across the whole board of all spirits and beers and wines is that the t t b has approved a hundred eighty thousand new products in the last twelve months through september of twenty twenty one. That is an eight point. Six percent increase from last year or an increase of fourteen thousand two hundred new labels and the one. We care about Well should i say actually the lowest in in beer there is forty two and a half thousand products and improve that were over the last twelve months Wine one hundred fifteen thousand products. But here's the thing is. Spirits was twenty two thousand new products however it had the most versus last year of twenty one point. Two percent increase whereas bureau was only five point eight percent increase. Interesting said he had to file a new label like each style. Like a logger. Pale ale Stoute's like you say if you're i don't know goodwood for example do you have to have a t. Tv for every label. No that's a good question. I mean all i know is about with us. It's it's really the only time you need to file a new label on the whiskey. Side is if it's changes a category so if you go from a straight bourbon to a blended bourbon or rye whiskey like each one of those has to be the same. But i think one of the things that people might find interesting that we know about it now. Being on the inside of it is that you don't have to put the proof in the age is just a placeholder. Even the stated distillation is a placeholder. Like none of that matters. There's only just a few things that you actually need to have on the label when it submitted yet did it break down like spirits like bourbon versus vodka scar spirits. An is just the entire category. Gotcha that would be a bummer. If there's i mean there's twenty two thousand new bourbon labels out. That's a little overwhelming. I think we're going to see a lot of bourbon labels over the next few years because of all the new investment barrels. That'll come online and everybody wants to start their own brand i. It's only going to go up from here. There's a lot of shelf space to fight for. Yeah we keep thing it's stop. it just keeps on multiplying. We've said that every year for the past five years now. Yeah why are we the experts. And i guess five years you know we would have been talking about woodford reserve twentieth anniversary because woodford reserve is now celebrating. Its twenty fifth anniversary and through the month of october customers. Will it a participate in special tastings and enjoy bespoke cocktails and discover unique products for sale at the gift shop. However tomorrow on october. Or should i say today on october fifteenth. If you're listening to this morning busting your butt to get over there. Master distiller chris morris and assistant master. Distiller elizabeth mccall will be there signing bottles so you can get a signed and then never open it twenty five years. That's gosh that's a lot. So i was gosh. How old am i now. Thirty six so. I was fourteen when they Is that right math major. I don't know i'm not a math. Major if it's not an excel spreadsheets. I can't math. that's how it works for me. I remember when woodforde came out and everybody even in bars fancy louisville bourbon but That's awesome twenty five years my places like they've done a great job. I mean you know you go there. And that's quintessential kentucky's got the rolling fields. The horsfield horse farms. It's got the picket fences. Got the stones. It's it's awesome. It is quintessential kentucky you said it right brother. Yep so congrats to. Chris morrison everyone brown forman and all that. They've done a great job. And i know chris has been really Proud worked hard. You know to make whitford today. He's been instrumental in the process. That's for sure. And you can go back and listen to some the old episodes where we've had him on and kind of talk about his story as well so the very awesome stuff so we talked about new bourbon labels coming on the scene. Well guess what the kentucky dealers association has announced that they have yet another member as its forty six member in this saddle stone distillery in woodford county now. I didn't even know much about saddle stone until i saw this But this is a venture from equis vineyards which opened back in ninety eight in its nestled on thirty eight acres amid of course picturesque horse farms. Which we would expect of course with woodford reserve so of course they got the historic stone fences and that quaint charm. And everything like that. However they've got a few things they've got a winery distillery tasting rooms offices of vet barn and hall and a few other things however they will not be producing bourbon. Whiskey our they produce brandy and a vase spirits and they are the katie as twenty-six craft level member which means aging less than ten thousand barrels a year and they can also apply to be which is which i found interesting. They can also apply to join the katie as kentucky bourbon trapped trail trapped trail crappy. You're i mean. I was like okay. You're doing brady and guy but you could. You can join the the craft tour. Why not yeah as long as you pay your dues. Yeah that's interesting. I didn't even think about being katie. A. it's kentucky distillers anyone that distills david. Yeah i've seen the acquis. I've never been there. But i've always seen it. You know when you get off their the versale exit on your way to lexington or whatever. So that's awesome a pop in there. One day actually down in lexington a couple of weeks again. Mickey get some brandy. Big a big fan. I really wanna do some brandy. Barrel picks is a part of our barrel club and we just need to get some more people on board. Yeah we had an apple brandy the other day. That was really good from our boys spirits. French lick angles boys and girls but Not as i'm a big brandy. Fan myself so What's with the brings her game to the to the bourbon brandy world for sure for sure. Well we talked about brandy. Let's talk about what's happening on the luxury side of things because this came out as a new study by the distilled spirits council the united states that the thirst for luxury spirits is on the rise. There is a new luxury brand index tracker where it tracks the sales of brands and six major spirit categories cognac. American whiskey irish whiskey single malt scotch. Japanese was tequila that sell for more than fifty dollars. Seven hundred fifty am l. So let's set the bar here. That luxury is considered fifty dollars or more. So this segment this is. This is the interesting take care. Is that this segment is only about three to four percent of total spirits volume but accounted for about ten billion dollars in sales in twenty twenty and one of the most interesting findings was how quickly luxury sales are increasing this year. And through the first half of twenty twenty one this volume of spirits brand up nearly twenty five percent and so this increased represents an annual growth rate of seventeen point seven percent which is much larger that much larger than the two and a half percent rate seen across other all. Spirit brands in american whiskeys have had an emerging luxury category and it's booming with an increase in sales pyan bourbon tennessee whiskey rye in american single malts growing at an annual rate of forty one percent to about six million bottles twenty twenty we count for little that spreads luxuries fifty. But kinda makes sense. I mean most of your everyday items afraid twenty five dollars or less and the spirit world. But i'm not surprised i mean You know obviously some industries were affected by the pandemic and whatnot. But a lotta industries are booming. You know you have a baby boomers. They've done well. Saving and retiring building huge nest egg. 's the stock market keeps growing. It's just people have money to spend in. you know. People love people like material things but they also love spirits because it brings on You know it's an experience and it's something you can do with other people and it's just a memorable thing. So i'm not surprised and i think this will continue to grow as you know. The there's more wealth being accumulated in this all over the world. Really just how with everyone being connected and whatnot. So i'm not surprised. Yeah i'm with you on that. I always think we get stuck in our little bubble because when it comes to bourbon when you see dealer bottle you're like ought to steal. That's a great deal because what we used to think is like the forty dollar regular shellfire dome or the forty dollar deal like a hundred dollars. Is that new sort of this. Is like an average cost now. At least. That's that's what it feels like. If you want something that's premium. It starts at one hundred like tequila. I'll be like Thirty dollars that's me you know. I don't know what i'm doing. The tequila world either. That's what i need tequila. Am i taste good with lime in a control and a little you know. I don't know what lamar if it's good margarita. And it's not going to give me a killer headache exactly but now it's awesome. I think the premium markets here to stay. And it's just gonna continue to grow you. Got other rising middle classes in you know asian countries and all across the world. so think it's just gonna continue to ras. Yeah and. I thought it was interesting that they really called out american whiskey and as having forty-one percent increase and i can totally see that i guess we get stuck in our bubble and we we look at fifty dollars and it's like sure that sounds about average and i'm sure it's different than what was a few years ago like there's not a race to the bottom. It's it's a race of who can be flashier and packaging. Who can help people talk about them. And and that's why you see brands that were on the bottom shelf and taking them off and that jews getting bottle into a better package because they wanna bring the price up and bring their exposure up. Yeah and people used to. I mean they still do that. These blow a ton of money on wine. You see people blow hundred five hundred thousand bucks on bottles of wine and you get what four or five drinks out of it you know when you spend fifty dollars or higher on a bottle bourbon. You're in depending on how tall your pores are. Get fifteen to twenty. You know solid pours and solid experiences with it. So it's even though a todd dollar you get a you get some value out of his well. Bang for your buck there. That's right so speaking of some more high spirits and maybe the ones that are being talked about that. You're probably not gonna find and that goes to buffalo trees antique collection. Well if you're not alone. It's most of the united states. That can't find it but if you want some help the fellas over at breaking bourbon are now carrying on the tradition. That blake over. Bergner started many years ago when blake to crowd source. Everything and figure out win has buffalo. Tracy antique hit your state and he would pull out his trustee microsoft paint and fill it in with a color and posted for you but again this map is not an official released tracker from buffalo trace distillery. This is completely crowd sourced and if you do find something you can go and fill out their form and they will color in your state. And i'm sure it's gonna be. Maybe maybe a little bit better than microsoft. Paint those guys over the do Some great graphics but Again this is just a tool to help you. Stand a fighting chance of obtaining a bottle so right. Now there's indiana has one report kentucky has one report and they're probably false. Yeah it's i. I'm gonna excited. We ended this'll be on friday. But we got our samples in for buffalo tracy antique collection. And so you can expect ryan i to put our reviews out in. I think two weeks so we're going to be we sip on those. We'll let you know we're thinking Hopefully hopefully they're all great anonymous stack this year. Yeah i'm excited trauma. All i'm trying. I've been trying not to see in era views of before we traum. I know some people have. And so i'm trying to. I've gotten view text like have you draw the beat tax yet and i'm like no reviewing tomorrow. Don't wanna know any input you know so. It's always as much as you don't want to. You always like them. They're always r- fantastic whiskies And so we. I'm gonna miss. I'm still get to comment on the stag stuff last week but I'm still perplexed by the whole whole thing. Yeah i think. We're going to save it for a round table discussion. And i did have the chance of an opportunity to talk to. Amy press over buffalo trace. Because she i don't know maybe like the tide's turning and she wanted to kinda ask me like get my my actual honest opinion about this and i said to her and i said you know some of this looks like it could be part of a pr stunt some of. It's not and she assured me she's like we're just as upset about it as as you all. And i set up i mean of course like we've known freddie johnson joshua steely and You know amy that that leads. Pr as well as just so many great people that work at sazak. We know the integrity of those kind of folks like they're not they're not going to get behind some massive duping plan to create a feud headlines. I just don't think that that would ever really happen. And you know it's got to be tough on people like you know. Harlan and andrew maysville whose master blender to say. This is not up to our standards. I'm sure they spent months trying to figure out what happened to him. But i will say that the cool thing is if it ever comes down to it if they if they see a lot of bad press. Amy said that heartland would be available to come on and talk about it. So maybe keep the bad press going and we'll We'll have on the show. Yep partout now. We're much more much more season interviewers. Now like what's your favorite job as a master still. We'll we'll ask better questions. But now now. I i trust that beatty did their their due diligence. And everything like that. But we'll save that for for a round table here in a few weeks and sort of our last sort of topic here on the news side. Is that ramps are starting to say. Refills and fakes are starting to run rampant. Where we're starting to see that and these were mostly at one point target to pappy and other high in bottles but there is now a new fake that has emerged on the market and he's already been called out with inside of a few different facebook groups but however this person has been refilling dusty so andrew hers of course he's a community hero of sorts. You know he somehow digs out. All these different fakers and people he discovered a seller that has been refilling dusty the red tax stamps that the seller admitted to selling these bottles that were empty that were purchased off of ebay so once again quit selling your damn bottles on ebay. Yeah i think think there'd be enough info out there to people I don't know. I don't know how you deter but just just don't do it. You know it's like just break all your bottles get rid of them. You know this is. Let's stop it bourbon one for the newbie. that's listening. just break your empties. you don't need to sell them. I promise you nobody's making candles or lamps lamp. I'm looking at right now. All right we're gonna take a quick break break. We're gonna take a quick break here. A word from our partners and we'll be right back with some bourbon news. Did you know the university level offers an online distilled spirits business certificate can be earned and just six courses. The city level and the surrounding region are home to many of the most story companies and innovative startups in the distilled spirits industry. And there's no better place to learn the business of the spirits than from the university located right in its epicenter. Yale's college business has also partnered with the kentucky distillers association to provide a lifting spirits scholarship to qualified enrolled students. And you can learn more and make your next career move at u. of l. dot me slash bourbon pursuit. Welcome back and we're gonna start talking about bourbon news. What's happening in the latest of bourbon releases so you can get your hands on all the juiciest latest releases that are happening and i went up comes from widow jane distillery. They have announced that decadence. Which is the brand's signature ten-year-old bourbon blended in small batches then finished in american oak barrels that once held upstate. New york's crown maple artisan maple syrup will return to retail sales beginning in october and of course the widow jane is held by or led by president in head distiller. Lisa wicker who. We've had back on the podcast a little while ago. They introduced their first five hundred fifty case back in april twenty twenty and another one hundred five. Five hundred fifty cases will be made available in october and both are going to sell out in a matter of days. So make sure you go and check it out. And it's bottled at a ninety one proof and i know we've done a maple syrup finished before and it's perfect for those old fashions for sure ali Decadent is the perfect description for for maple syrup finish bourbon. It is a very decadent they're good. I like those mason soft nice and soft. Yes anybody that happens to be around castle and key over in frankfurt secret going to say you're going to woodford today because you've got it right there and get those bottle sign. Makes you go stopover castle kaseke because they are also releasing their restoration. Ripe twenty twenty one batches two and three and they can be purchased at the distillery this week as well now. Another one coming out of louisville is angels envy known for its course. It's port cask. Finish bourbons has an anticipated. Release every single year in that. Is there cask strength release and this will be hitting retail in december. The twenty twenty one release is of course. Whiskey just finished port barrels and this marks the tenth release in the program in this year. It's bottled at a hundred and twenty point. Seven proof and it always comes packaged in some big collectible carved wooden box. It looks really nice and again marks the tenth release. It's the plans here. Is it just as fourteen. Thousand seven hundred sixty seven bottles will be available at select retailers across all fifty states. And you're gonna look for an ms rpm around two hundred and thirty dollars. Nice yeah packaging on. That's really nice. He looks good. It's got like the open glass. They can kinda like see through a little bit like they do it. Okay with its bucci is it is super super. Bucci this one. I'm i'm kind of excited for. Because i've always been a big fan of the cigar blend batches that are coming from joseph. Magnus and anybody. Who doesn't know is that the this is coming. From course master blender. Nancy fraley the knows. We've had her on plenty of times before. But they have six new batches that are coming out and these are finished in a variety casks including a larosa sherry pedroza. Pedro cinnamon is sherry. I'm probably butchered that one cone. Hannah's jimenez jimenez probably and armagnac casks and this autumn series of joseph magnet cigar blends is comprised. This has batches fifty three through fifty eight. And they're a blend of sixteen bourbon barrels in the all range from around fourteen to twenty years old. And so now. Here's some details because they went a little bit different. This time. they actually named batches. I you can go online. There's a lot more detail tasting notes. I'm not going to get into the day but The different batches are rock. The casper we heavy l- adultery. Vida shark kuri board because who doesn't love charcuterie plates and everybody needs them. Char coots and darth vader so takashi. I haven't heard anything a magnificent longtime so. This is great news. We were talking. I know big fana cigar blend. If it was a batch whatever cigar blend you had at your house. We we used. I think we crush the bottle because it was so good. Yeah we've we've gone through a few of them. I know that for sure they'd always exciting. Hear them in the news again. Yeah awesome because they moved to michigan because they were they were before. They're in dc. Yeah they were in dc. And then they moved to michigan because of new ownership and then they kinda just yeah you kinda like disappeared. You didn't hear anything from them. But now we were starting to hear some something starting to come out because i think it was like people were were selecting barrels from there and they had thirteen year. Mgp and this is before the gp craze really hit and they were like one hundred dollars bottle. People were just saying. I don't really know now. They would be they sell like like. I don't know about thirteen year old. Mgp they're going crazy for five to six year mvp very true. Ronnie how the bourbon world is for my love what they can't get For sure all right. So let's talk about some of our good friends out of colorado which is old elk distillery because we've selected a few barrels with them and of course It's more mvp. We've had the mvp massively greg mets back on episode one fifty four however. That's all the different. It's not thirty. Six percent or twenty one percent. They've been doing their own custom. Nashville at gp. For a very long time however they are now starting to get into cask finished variants. And they're going to have four releases and they have been finished in what they call freshly harvested barrels from some of the most exclusive european producers And so these are going to be priced around ninety dollars per bottle. So they have the sherry cask. Finish which is finished. In a ten year. Old spanish sherry cask. A port cast finish with casks from portugal. A cognac casks finish which is of course agent of world class konia cast because what it says in armenia in armenia cast which is also comes from france koto. We come from france koenigs. That's a good one. So what what a product or the age in these barrels because a yet they're wheat whiskey. They got their weeded burglar hierarchy bourbon. Does it say yes it does. It says old elk straight bourbon across all of these. Gotcha yep which. We've been more fans of the the wheat whiskey but we were always happy to keep giving the bourbon try. Yeah maybe these finishes will be what it needs emotion like. Hey we'll select an army cask from france. Yes we'll go to france. I will pick out the cask and then we'll ship it over. We'll we'll do the whole hope with our girl from bourbon insider and jessica. Yes yeah shot at the jessica over there so make sure you follow her on instagram. Yep all right so another one. So it hasn't lost lantern. They're kind of like ryan and i. You know we work when we partner with different craft distilleries to private label. A bunch of different whiskies and stuff like that your stay we work and we do pervert on the side. Think we do that as well but on the pursuit spirit side. That's that's our third job. It might be your job. It's definitely my job. Yeah yeah so but they it's this is actually founded by nora ganley roper and adam polinsky and of course they're independent bottlers of american whiskey and they've got three new releases coming up at the first one is their single cask. That is coming from cedar ridge i wa. It's a single malt. Finished in a sherry cask and the single malt was age for two years american oak and then another two years in a five hundred leader sherry but that was imported from spain. And this will have five hundred fifty five bottles available with an srp of around one hundred ten dollars and it's considered for years old and since the single malt one hundred percent malted barley Single cast number two is from watershed ohio. Which is their straight bourbon whiskey. It's eight for five years one hundred sixty bottles and one hundred dollars. One hundred eighteen point eight proof but this is a five grade of corn. Rice spilt malted barley and wheat and single cask. Number three comes from boulder spirits colorado which is their straight bourbon. Whiskey five hundred one hundred eighty one bottles one hundred dollars. One hundred thirty eight point one proof. Fifty one percent corn forty four percent scottish multi barley and five percent. Rye which i found that would kind of interesting like usually it's the other way it's like forty four percent. Rye and five percent malted barley. Yeah this is yet so a lot of malt going on Gather looks like you're hitting the mid west and thrown in. She got ohio in the colorado. Who the it was cedar ridge. Iowa cedar Jesse's get which they're all big into the cedar Especially big in the mall. So this is this american malt whisky things. Kinda take it off. So a lot of people are getting into gazza. Be interested in tremendous like different things. guess what. We got samples buddy. We can try them. How man right party. Yeah we're gonna get again another whiskey quick coming at you in the future and elisha craig. Of course they're still the news here. they've also unveiled their latest barrel. Proof which is c. Nine to one. And it's gonna be at one hundred twenty point two proof and of course this'll be the third and final edition to be released in twenty twenty one and as usual. It's a twelve year old uncut variant logic. Craig and it'll be price around ninety nine dollars. Income areas the price on those was like sixty nine or seventy nine or something like that. I mean i don't know i pulled this. It wasn't this wasn't even official press release. I forget where i put website. I pulled this off of basha. Probably go look at that. But it was just i would. I would imagine this was pulled from official press release and i just pulled it from there but who knows maybe there is a price increase because people pay hundred dollars for that. I don't see a reason at seventy five is steel. So one hundred twenty purves. That's pretty low for running. Usually they're in the one thirties. Something like thirty one. Twenty eight usually low for them so I'd be all over this. Yeah we were just talking earlier about luxury and prices and premium and it's like wait our track nine john's a great deal. Yeah we're like wait a minute. Twelve year old. Cast rank allies. Your greg in don't complain about ninety nine dollars. I think that's probably fair. That's totally that's just me them like two hundred dollars in the beginning to make. But that's gotta sit there to you gotta wait twelve years. Yeah you've got a kid. That's basically halfway through middle school at that point. Yeah all right. It's worth nine t x whiskey. Which i don't know is it. Texas whiskey is was whiskey. I don't know maybe maybe somebody from their part texas. I mean that's what you know you look at. The label is a big t. x. on it but as like do you call it x whiskey or just call texas whiskey. Because can you trademark the name texas. I don't really know became trademarked abbreviation. I don't know that either but legal mumbo jumbo aside. They are launching the straight bourbon. Whiskey finished in cognac casks. Which is the third time. I think we've talked. Cognac on this podcast now and this is the third expression in their barrel finish series and this is a following their award winning straight bourbon tawny port finish and their x. Sherry finish this again. The third and final experimental release but this is also going to mark a milestone as the last expression and final one from whiskies. Tenured master distiller. Rob arnold who will be stepping down. After a decade of service and he hand selected these cognac casks for this expression which had been used the course of a multi-year maturation experiment and ultimately selected the to finish two of the two. Your sorry finished two year old texas straight bourbon for over. Seventeen months in these casts. And this'll be the first t x. Whiskey expression that will be distilled at their new place called whiskey ranch which is a hundred twelve acre artisanal distillery experience in fort worth texas. This is bottled one hundred. One point six proof sixty five dollars and we'll be available at whiskey ranch. Which is their distillery in. Fort worth and across an texas retailers sounds awesome. Yep everybody let's part texas whiskey. I guess not. I don't know like. I said maybe somebody'll correct me. That's just that's just me reading the news here. I see i see it in the late. Ninety six true very true all right as attention for coffee lovers at are out there. Multi-award-winning whisper creek tennessee sipping cream. A spirit brand of pennington. Distilling company is announcing launch a new product. Which is the whisper creek spiked coffee cocktails with as much caffeine as a cup of coffee. And as spirited as a shot tennessee whiskey what they call a little can with a lot of kick and this'll be available in original and mocha flavors. Each can it comes in a two hundred l. Comes in four packs. And it's about twelve and a half percent alcohol or twenty-five proof and you're looking around twelve to fourteen dollars for four pack which i've heard these kind of like spike coffee cocktails or are starting to come about now. Yeah i mean. One of my favorite cocktails. I've ever had is called the western headed a thing. It's called boca. Chicago's like let's call the western and it was an old fashioned but it was risky with the espresso syrup. You had to. Coffee is like an espresso. Simple syrup so i love coffee. I love bourbon. it's uppers and downers so we'll see how that goes but yeah i. I think i'd be all for us. I love both of those things. you know. Oddly enough for me. i think. I've probably said before the podcast. I don't drink coffee. I can't do it in the mornings. i'll be wired. However i will try it. I will have every once in a while or having a small but the one. I love coffee aged beer coffee flavored variants of stoute's and stuff like that so i would actually like flavour of coffee. Yeah i do. I like it. I like an ice cream and stuff like that. I just don't grab us like the jittery anxious feeling because you have enough energy. That's probably too. I just don't have the need to go and grab a cup every morning. But i do like the flavor of it i mean i i like it in a few things. And that's when we do our tasting will be like. Oh yeah a little bit of coffee and sometimes you'd be like. Oh yeah i do see it. Kenny does does knows coffee every once in a while like you don't even drink coffee how you take the call. My parents told me about at one time. A longtime agenda bunch of jamaica milkshake from arby's and it's funny. You said that i. Actually we had dinner at our reason this past week and i got totally sucked in holland. Blows wrong with you. At least until he sucked in to that new commercial with the rib that rib sandwich they have or whatever and i totally got it and honestly it's pretty good it just tastes arby's is always it tastes like a or haven't been forever. Whatever time i go. I'm like gotta get horsey saw ticket. Curly fries and beef and cheddar can't go wrong. Let me preface. this like. It wasn't the first choice is because the lineup chick-fil-a was too long. And there's an arby's or an and heard on harvey's arby's gets all the spill from chick-fil-a every night when you have t ball. That's exactly what happened. You're at our last one for the night. Is that oaken eden whiskey which there are another one out of texas. They kind of have this little thing where they put a forty x but they put this wooden spiral in their in their glasses. Kind of their thing but they have announced a new chapter because they are doing a celebrity caliber. Collaboration called the anthr- series. And what they're doing is they're partnering with different personalities that allow them to customize their own signature line of whiskey and the series actually kicked off with yellowstone. tv star. four j. smith this past spring and they've gotten yeah you know who he is yellowstone exactly and so they've got a few more people that are lined up here. I'm not gonna talk about which each bourbon. They're releasing but each one of them are releasing their own bourbon expression Versus of course we had four j. smith. You got john paul. White from the civil wars jamestown revival fill more penny sparrow who were big fans. 'cause we we had them as podcast guests back on episode two hundred twenty eight and there'd be releasing actually a a heavily toasted hundred sixteen proof and i'll give them a shout out because we're good friends with them. We liked them. And also abraham alexander so this these products are going to be made possible by each of them building their own kind of custom bottle whisky and using different kind of flavoring elements For the type of spirit the level or proof of it There would spire this spire toast level and all sorts of stuff in these prices are gonna range from anywhere to sixty five to eighty five dollars per bottle and you can actually order them on line as well. I'm in because four jay. Smith's like he's he's the old wiseman on the ranch on yellowstone you privacy. And he's got the mustache all yeah. It's got the handlebars he's he's a great he's got he's got drives people when they when they're dead. They're like run drummed wyoming dump them over inside road. I haven't watched the ellison yet. So maybe i need to and then i'll become a big fan. It's great yeah but that's gonna do it for this week in bourbon. I think we get a lot of good headlines tonight and we'll be back again next week with of course more bourbon. News cheers ryan have a great rest the weekend and cheers everybody out there in bourbon land and make sure you tell your friends about urban pursuit where they can subscribe and where they can learn and be smarter brown water. Yep that's what you want to be smart about. Groundwater is for sure cheers. Y'all yup next week a heavy just a quick message to let you know that right. We have our own urban. It's called pursuit united. It's a culmination of years of work. Based on our learnings from interviewing the best people in the industry on this show listen to the whole story on episode. Three hundred ten and you can pick it up on store shelves right now in colorado illinois georgia kentucky tennessee texas and it can be shipped online from seal. Box dot com. So for more information you can find it at pursuit. Spirits dot com.

elijah craig kentucky Craig buffalo woodford reserve ryan Forman jack daniels Workers community foundation elisha creek craig home marquette lahser craig Stoute woodford reserve twentieth elizabeth mccall woodforde Chris morrison brown forman
Bonus: Syrup, Space, and Questionable Clubs

The Ladies of Strange

43:23 min | 11 months ago

Bonus: Syrup, Space, and Questionable Clubs

"Welcome are the ladies of strange ashley. I'm tiffany and i'm rebecca. Thank you for joining us each week as we discuss the history mr in theory of all things questionable off an eerie hellofresh insi- guys were halfway through november. Almost turkey day. Gobble gobble mother. Fluffer way to eat my feelings right. Unfortunately i'm not sure which feelings i will be eating but we're just gonna go with. Yes just all yes to that please. I want to eat all the feelings. I am so ready for green. Bean casserole stuffing stuffing which is not dressing and since no one is here in the room with me. No one can dispute a ha. There's a difference moving on between the two. I prefer dressing. But i recognize the difference. Same yeah i know. That's why we're friends. We've figured it out. We have new patron of thing named shelley. shelly. I like you. Who was the. That's not. I was going to. Shelly is our friend on instagram I chatted put on a song for some reason. The who put the bop in the bop bop bop jelly the ram and the raymond limiting ding. Dong iona why that pops in my head but that was for usually i'll do we have for this lovely episode. While for this bonus jonas. Oh my god. I met two wins the other night all right dwight shrewd from the office. Their names were kevin and kelvin introduced me to him. And he's like this is my buddy galvin. We went to school together. Both i oh nice to meet you again. This is my turn brother kelvin. I was like hold on. Who you mean like kevin. And i'm sorry you said kelvin. And he was like yeah. It's like kevin but with an l. No no no. I get that. Hold on thinking leave but it's also a temperature. Do you realize that you were not look like jonas brother. Or like you are tour and seventy three point one five degrees because that is freezing. I'm not gonna ask how you know. What the kelvin temperature is also know with the acceleration is due to gravity so it was just excited. That i met kelvin jonas. I'm really excited. He looks nothing like his brothers. But you know did. Kevin known said they were twins. Kelvin looked kevin but they did not look like the joe kevin or the other ones joe knickknack and the bonus on the little brother that always gets forget forgetting forgotten. Forgive thanks did this month. Bonus so as it's officially november we're going into the holy see's horn we thought about what most days have in common holiday celebrations have in common paganism ding ding ding Whether it is fasting feasting or four g inc lot of holidays that are celebrated at the end of the calendar year involve. I love food. My favorite we're gonna talk about food slash products that you consume. I'm excited because it's us you know it's going to be hella weird need a thought about cannibalism. But i held off this time. I'm glad you did cool. Cool cool keep holding off on that when police got it so i will kick us off with this story once a year. The federation of quebec maple syrup producers f. p. aac u. p. Which is the heck federation this product. There's heiress quiz to quebec certain that was flawless french pronunciation. I know i'm fluent so once a year. They take inventory of the thousands of barrels of maple syrup that are stored in multiple warehouses throughout canada. I think i know where this air serious about their syrup. Oh just wait. I think. I know where this in the summer of two thousand and twelve michael gav rule began his. Climb up the barrels in saint louis blah. This is going to end well for him. A town outside of lawrenceville laurer ville. You did the first one. And then you give me laurer. Ville lorber the hail u. r. i. e. r. v. i l. louisville. We'll go with that part of quebec's syrups reser was stored in a rented warehouse there. What part of quebec's maple syrup reserve was stored and her rented warehouse. Okay you said reserve and it made me. Do you have the reservation. Never head but i'll wait. It's fine so like americans you know stockpile you know milk and bread when they're snow do canadians stockpile. Maple sir i was thinking whiskey and ammunition but some can stock a whiskey and amunition. That's what we stockpile in general. I was talking specifically during snow. But that's an excellent point Just stockpile maple syrup during this. No i think it's harvested at the beginning of spring. But i restate. You're correct because that's when the sap starts moving in the trees I had a real smart moment where i was like. Oh the hell you harvest syrup like where is it. Maple comes from trees yet little leaf and he get the teats and you do not know me. Wow we're like three lines into this. Gav row was near the top of the stack when one of the barrels begin to tilt and nearly gave way under his feet no a small man atop a tower of syrup realizing suddenly there's nothing beneath his feet. The barrels windfall would wake up to six hundred pounds and they would be quite sturdy so it was easier for them to climb up these stacks of barrels. Get to the top to take inventory so obviously this was a pretty good indicator that something was not right so they took that barrel down realize how easy it was to carry down on capped it and it was totally empty. I i it was just written off as mistake. Ninety barrel got put up there somehow but soon many more barrels were found that were either empty partially empty. Or we're filled with water stealing the maple syrup. let's find out shall we. It was a squirrel where are serious squirrel. The inspectors called the f. p. q. headquarters and shortly the facility was swarming with investigators. Course there were no security cameras. They were in a rented warehouse. And who would do anything with syrup who steals syrup. Well it's good syrup. what am i talking about. what's you looking at. My notes will also like. I know dumb american but i just picture like canadians. Being nice and not stealing so fair. I've a lot about canada lately. And i think my views have been skewed a bit. I'm sure most of you are lovely. But the investigation was headed by sierra ch- decor beck police which were soon joined by the royal mounties and us customs interesting team of over two hundred and fifty investigators between the three. Is this close to the border. Quebec yeah i mean. Quebec is not small. So i was swine know that a lot of acas north of niagara falls right joe asking the wrong person about geography real close. A lot of the forrester plant wherever all the trees are planted. A lot of them crossover from canada into united states. Yes so a lot of the land has the trees that are forced for canadian. Maple syrup actually crossover into the united states. so anyway. A team of over two hundred and fifty investigators between the three groups were put on the case for the first two weeks. They come to the warehouse just trying to determine which barrels were empty or which ones have been tampered with us. A lot of people as the investigation went on about three hundred people were questioned and forty search. Warrants were executed so basically anybody that was involved with the warehouse transportation storage. The people they sold to the people they purchased from all of them were questioned so a lot of people were looking at. It is like a prank because again who would steal maple syrup. it's also really good maple syrup. Well it's really good maple syrup. and we've touched base on the federation of the maple syrup producers. This is like the drug cartel in canada both maple syrup but with maple syrup because it's such a hot commodity that they literally. I don't know if every person. But i think it's sports. You hit a production point you have to go through the f. pa q. In order to produce your syrup and they take a portion of it they determine how much money you can make from it they have to get a certain percentage from you every year like they have Hierarchy over this whole thing so fun to if you don't have simple syrup real. Legit maple syrup is excellent and an old-fashioned ooh continue. That sounds good. It's good so of course to them. It was pretty serious. Business in total. Nearly five hundred. Forty thousand gallons of syrup had been stolen that was twelve point five percent of the total reserve at two thousand dollars per barrel. It is about thirteen or in two thousand twelve. It was about thirteen times. The price of a barrel of crude oil palsy. Schweitzer should we invest in maple syrup gel. Let's move to canada. Anyone wanna take a guess at the value. The amount to the dollar amount that they tabulated was stolen. Three million i was thinking like five mil- eighteen point seven million dollars and canadian. Money's yes what is augean money called. It's something cute loon. Yeah that is cute in their money is waterproof. What's it's pretty brilliant. Well it snows a lot there. Dude canadians they out it. I can't remember if it's a lunar loonier a colloquial term for it it. I've heard looney. But and i'm not sure if that applies to the coins or the dollar bills claimer canadian. It's cute disclaimer. Non-canadian almost as far away. Oh we have a comedian and at work. I'm gonna talk to her. it's fine. I'll ask her about baker work. Sound incredibly weird which is accurate. Yeah she has one who suggested the niagara fall- barrel anyway we did touch base Maple syrup ridiculous amounts lots of money. Eighteen point seven million dollars. It became known as the great maple syrup heist said to be. Among the biggest agricultural crimes ever committed so it was believed to be an inside job not necessarily members of the fda q. or manufacturer but a tenant who to be renting space in the same facility. I'm trying to imagine. Lake offloading that much maple syrup and like how long you would have had to been doing it for it to not be noticed or you just like they took a weekend offer a holiday and you and your buddies would in there just demolished. A bunch of i don't own so the reason i thought it would be somebody within the same facilities that they would have access they'd have the keys they wouldn't be questioned by security to be on the property for some reason they had to have access to be on there but they didn't think it'd be anyone from the f. a. q. or manufacturer because if you mess with supply and demand they change how much they're willing to pay you and so lose traceability. It's a mask yet. So they really wrote off most people that'd be involved with f. b. q. In any way so several conspirators pursued including avic carson and richard villares working with a handful of others Some with knowledge of the trade. They apparently went after the bounty over the course of a year. According to the prosecutors the gang would truck barrels out of their reserve to a sugar shack where they would siphon the syrup into their own barrels and then refill the originals with water. And take those back in. It's basically they would act like delivery people and they would take barrels and remove full barrels bring quote unquote full barrels. But they were filled with water. Anyone else craving pancakes right now. You should have seen me researching this episode. I was very hungry. And i won't real maple syrup. So as the operation grew they allegedly brought on accomplices began siphoning the syrup directly from the barrels in the reserve and nearly ten thousand barrels of syrup were stolen and truck two points from south east. It said we're the market was free. So i guess maybe that's not controlled by the fbi. Cue which is how they were able to sell it. Okay i was thinking black market but plaque maple syrup. There is a need for something. There's a black market for it. Hey i'm not saying do this. But market maple syrup. It'd be a super cool thing to have. I mean i wouldn't be mad at me. Don't have a po box. No i million. Oh and we will not accept stolen goods. We also know somebody who used to be in the business of black market milk. But that's another story. Hi mom we're. I know people that are involved in the black market. Oh yeah we'll can they give me syrup and milk. It's not just milk gets raw milk. Yeah that doesn't sound piecing it was not. I did not like it so they believed that the serb was then sold in the united states. New brunswick canada to distributors. Who had no idea that it was stolen. So in april two thousand seventeen one of the main substituted. That was french for suspecting k. Sure why is what i just. It's it's for. That's france don't you know. Don't geno going on a boots. A boot how did you say. Eighty boot rewind the tapes in april two thousand seventeen. One of the main suspects terry go and q. Etienne pierre maple syrup buyer accused of buying stolen syrup and rebranding it as new brunswick syrup reportedly told the jury quote. You can't prove what tree syrup came from. A why i love. I looked at me. I and i'm sitting here going no you can. It's it's flavor glucose and you can't prove where it comes from once it's out of the barrel and he's not wrong. The jury did not buy this argument and found him guilty of fraud and trafficking of stolen goods circumstantial circumstantial. You can't prove what tree it came from So another one of the ringleaders avid cannon was sentenced to five years in prison and fined one. Point two million for his involvement in the crime and the most prominent sentence was given to richard valera who argued that he had been forced to by the stolen syrup being threatened by an unnamed man carrying a gun. Evidently the jury did not buy this defense and was found guilty of theft fraud and trafficking stolen goods and sentenced to eight years in prison and handed eighty nine point. Four million dollar fine with an extension to fourteen years if the fine wasn't paid holy crap. That's a sticky situation but of jim They lord the fine to one million and he is still in jail. Oh that was three years ago. All right that was the great maple syrup heist. I didn't wanna add a little side. Note in here. Is a series called dirty money on net flicks and they cover this in the first season. And you have to watch it. The judge popped onscreen. I was like damn dammit. Tiffany's leaving matt. I am intrigued. Tall skinny all dressed up glass. It like it. Just watch it duly noted wow sorry matthew so i re- carelessly. I'm moving to canada. I mean again. We'll see weeks. We actually stand. Yup that was the maple syrup. heist dot was cool. Thank you thank you. You want to learn about something. That's not maple syrup. i do. That's the idea to have different subjects. Okay i'll bonuses. Where mind is not going to be as well put together as yours. What the storyteller. Well mine was just something. I found that i thought was really cool. And i knew that we've got some fans of space who listen to the show and this involved food and space wail wa. All right you guys. Did you know that. Russia made it to space before we did yes. You don't say cool. We tried to get there as well which we ended up doing. Spoiler alert but between nineteen sixty five and nineteen sixty six. We allegedly ended up. Doing ma'am there. Were ten crude space flights. That were to test america's first spacewalk test newly vid space food and just kind of figure out what it was like for space travel based food That is kind of a segue. Good where we're going are episodes about food and you're talking about space space booth. Mike actually what i'm talking about isn't necessarily space food and we'll get to it so on gemini three were john young and gus grimsson their main objective tests space food. Sounds like fun right. Probably not for the first space food. So john young as they're getting ready to do stuff pulled out a surprise for gusts. This was kind of a little prank for him. They were getting ready to go. Everything's set up. everything's like pump. In the way it's supposed to be an out of his spacesuit he pulls out a corned beef sandwich hands it over to his buddy and the following conversation ensues corn beef sandwich. Did you get the corn beef sandwich. Why does it sound like a psych episode. Helped if my suit where you want space. Space sandwiches sean. What do you have a sandwich. 'cause i might get hungry right roast beef of old things. That sounds good. So sorry. I'm trying to not one that i would just tot- around you would think. Oh well i'll tell you about the corned beef sandwich all right. I can't seem to find the conversation but basically it was just like what is that. It's a corned beef sandwich. Why i brought it. It's not very good but that's what happened so illuminating conversation. It sounds like a podcast. I listen to. It was a rough guide of one of our episodes and yet so at the time that he did it. He didn't think anything of it other than like. This is funny when he did it. He wasn't really think anything of it other than this is going to be. Funny i want to say. They both took a bite. Out of the sandwich i believe. Did they get food poisoning. They did not. That's not where this is going to get parasites. They did not okay No longer interested not intrigue. There was no vomiting or bugs so it shouldn't be a big deal that these two guys took by sandwich. Put it back in the pocket and moved on with their day. He did put it back in his pocket because they took a by an soon as he took a bite he was like oh there are crumbs and put it back in his pocket. Jimmy three was the first to manned space mission and the evolution of the food was supposed to help define and classify the type that astronauts can consume on increasingly large longer missions. The main thing about the food was most of it was like pureed or gelatinous toward that word. Don't yeah they said Test foods were mainly can't paste or coated in gelatine to prevent crumbling. Why would you need to prevent crumbling on a spaceship so it didn't go over there because there's no gravity so the quotas are just a go and get into things. They're not supposed to get into like me like rolex. We are two different people. I both okay. They mentioned eyeballs electrical equipment. And the articles. I read that's a crummy situation. Best work so this corned beef sandwich obviously wasn't coded and gelatin wasn't a place so their work from john had purchased it two days prior whites from wolfe's restaurants and sandwich shop no fee right before launched. He passed it to young ally apologize. It was not purchased by john. Young it was purchased by a fellow astronaut. Wally skara i believe and he passed it on to young right before they were due their mission. What is with these black market foods. Right it's like we researched weird food topics. I didn't google weird food. Facts this out. So when they took bites of it they went to put aside realize it wasn't really possible since the chrome started to float around and they just put it back in their pocket in the weightless environment of space. They could easily get into electrical panels or fly into the eyes of the crew members. There apparently repressed kits for nasa. That made it clear that a thin gelatin layer was always added to food in order to avoid such problem. Damn there was my dreams of being an astronaut. The house of representatives appropriations committee was not happy about this. Most congressman blamed garcia young for smuggling and eating an inappropriate food object and ignoring the task evaluation of the actual space food which was one of the main objectives their mission. This cost supposedly costs the country. Millions of dollars sounds right for space equipment right and space travel and them not doing what they were supposed to do. How long were the up there. I don't know how long they were up there. But they just flew around and then came back down and they only a bite of a sandwich while they were up there. No they had other food. Their main objective was to test out space food but as soon as they got in space they pulled out this took her by and they were laying off. Yeah it was supposed to be just like a quick prank. Okay as someone who has to deal with validations and reports and you know control things all the time. Some mother fucker went up there with like legit food when we're testing space food. I'd be pissed. Zad screw data's everywhere that was kind of the reaction of the us government. Yeah what the fuck. How dare you smuggle porn. Not saying that's not why you're up there. Gain elizardo smelled study. Go nuts sandwiches shirt but we need to make it clear that rebecca said it was ruined sandwiches for science. I'm here for all of this. I love. I really do want to sandwich. Now and pancakes. So we'll see how it goes. Have chocolate and widen well after this. No other contraband. Edible products would find their way into space. They know of salad considering how much food is at my parents growing up in high school. Just less crummy food this happened. In nineteen sixty five no other corned beef sandwich made it into space and they know of april nineteen eighty-one a when it was taken on the first space shuttle flight in the form of bite size cubes. The mission was commanded by john young. Oh he was rather disappointed by the public's attention to the sandwich rather than the successful program but the first one wasn't successful because they had to call it quits because he ate a sandwich. Well skewed the data will the gym a mission paved the way for the first quote unquote moon landing. Yeah but not their specific launch. Well they were also testing. Spacewalks during that mission is phase. What baseball baseball's baseball's they did have space walls on the shuttle schupp up. Tiffany like mini rant. I understand you lake food into space for like astronauts to survive. I get that. It's also to keep morale up but like why are you trying to make foods that are on earth translate to this different way of transporting foods because what else are they gonna. I mean all the food has to start on earth. Yeah but like. Don't freeze dry ice cream like do something else with it. Like if you have to make a new type of food or a new type of substance to take up with you. Why are you trying to take stuff on earth that is already in a form that people associate textures with and sink. Cre- astronauts eat freeze dried ice cream. Space i think that was made more of a novelty to be like this is the type of food. It's an example blue. I do think they gave you straight ice cream though. Okay okay. there's any astronauts and listened to the podcast. Please let us know. And i apologize in advance for my previous subjects. We would like to state that we do believe in science and for the most part believe the moon landing was real. I say most part we do believe it. I'm sorry. I wholeheartedly believe the moon landing was real in. The earth is not flat. Ashley and i will stand on that ground full fledged feet firmly on the ground on the round earth. I am rebecca. I support shenanigans shenanigans. I agree with both statements. So i found the conversation so young pulls out. The sandwich in grissom ask. What is it accord beef sandwich. Where did you come or where did that come from. I'd brought it with me. Let's see how it tastes smells doesn't it. it's corned beef yes. Corn beef is delicious. it's delicious but it smells a little funny. Because it's basically pickled meet fine then young at one point said When talking about the sandwich said it was quote a thought not a very good one quote and grimsson said it was pretty good though if it would just told together so but that's a sign of a good sandwich is when it doesn't. I don't know when my sandwich starts falling apart. I get pissed off. And i can't enjoy it like i legitimately get mad cow. Yeah well. I don't want like my lettuce and tomato falling off as i'm trying to take a bite out of it and like when the bread is that's just not a well-constructed sandwich. What are you talking about when you said it falls apart like when it's like hot and melted and like you have like all the juices and mayo coming together. Where like there's like with philly cheese when you get done in that pile of meat and cheese on the plate like a good southern barbecue sandwich. Half the meat doesn't end up on your plate. It's not a good barbecue sandwich. Okay man witch. I'm good with both of those scenarios. I was thinking like you make a turkey lettuce tomato cheese sandwich sub and the bread is so hard that when you bite into it at forces everything. I don't like that. I gotta take you to better sandwich places. I love my pub subs or tiffany just needs to learn how to eat a sandwich that too that is also a corruption now. This sandwich that caused so much controversy can be viewed you. It is embedded in acrylic resin and exhibited at the grimsson memorial museum and mitchell indiana. That's gross actually. I believe no. It is just a corned. Beef sandwich is is it is really old. It's from. I don't know exactly how old it is. At least fifty years old but it is a corned beef sandwich. Preserved in resin memorializing the infamous corned beef sandwich from gemini three. I did read somewhere that it was no longer available to view as of two thousand eight. But then i also found some that said you could still view it today so just go visit john. Grisham grissom grisham grisham. Where's john grisham. Some tv show anyway. Just go visit. Nca there's a corned beef sandwich. There i do enjoy good corned beef sandwich. Wow okay full disclosure. i am craving. arby's real hard right now. Oh i don't like arby's does sound good. I just want a big old pot of corned beef and cabbage. Ooh i just wanna philly cheese. Steak now is great. Tiffany i now want pancakes and a sandwich. Excellent are you guys ready for boos de because what else is now dinner or brunch and brunch and dinner. Yes gory brunch and brunch. Better offer brunch. If we're if we're in new orleans all of the above could fall under the brunch category. Oh anyway moving. On in dawson city yukon territory. Canada is the sour dough. Saloon that is known for one. Think is this the pickle to- this is a sour cocktail. How we talked about this on the show. I believe so. We haven't covered it as a subject but we briefly talked about it. Maybe we haven't dived into it. Tell us about the sour. Toho cocktail pickle cocteau. Nope so dough. Saloon is known. It's probably known for more things but most notoriously known for the sour to- cocktail and those who braved to join the elite club. Join so so to understand what the sour cocktail is. We need a little bit of history. I in the nineteen twenties minor and rum runner. Lewis likened fell victim to frostbite will being chased by the police with his brother. Otto louis ended up stepping off the sled. Because you know they're in the yukon and canada which basically unless you plan on walking you just have a sled with dogs mush. Yeah louis ended up stepping off the sled through ice into running water and soaked his foot. Oh no after having foot frozen solid early his toes auto ended up cutting off the to- using a wooden axe and a little bit of overproof for louis which serve as anesthesia. That's how you did it. Not a good idea because like thins your blood and you'll bleed more but not the point i mean don't they in all the old telling me movies whenever you're about to do some of the lake you get shot. They're like just pour some alcohol in it they take a shot and then they poured on you and then they take another shot and dig out the correct. We know more now So the brothers for some reason. Decide to place this to- in a jar of alcohol to remember the occasion sounds why they would ruin alcohol. I don't know however they forgot about it by leaving the jar in a cabin The milano air in canada somewhere in the yukon which is huge and full bears. And ninety you can. The yukon is huge and full of bears. Tell me i'm wrong. In nineteen seventy three captain. Dick stevenson glad i pause. You was ahead of his time. Captain these captain. Dick found the jar containing the to- while cleaning a cabin. He had a great idea. What if he brought the tow back to the saloon and place it in the drinks of those brave enough to try it. Who has that idea like. Who is like oh look at this taught hake look at this. To- border served alcohol people in the middle uganda. That have nothing else to do. So does was the birth of the sour to- cocktail ho- is supposedly kept in salt and win requested in garnish. Your drink of choice. Oh i didn't know that. I thought it just always stayed in the so. The rules change over the years. I think it used to be just like whatever shot of house. Liquor is on hand but as it progressing can have it like garnish drink. I couldn't divine prices. 'cause you'd think something like that you would at least have to add a couple of dollars to have that garnish your drink. I would rather take a shot in like have the to- touch my mouth than just have it as a garnish on my drink. That's that's how you get into the cocktail club. Yes so acknowledge your choice but one garnish doesn't mean like sitting on the edge of the drink. He'll be floating. Okay that's fine. Yeah one rule rules you can drink it fast. You can drink it slow. The let's have got it touch the to- i'm good. Thank you man. I to join so bad. I mean like a tow shaped ice cube and they'll just like play along The first toe met it's fate nineteen eighty in july nineteen eighty nine minor named gary. Younger was trying for this hour. To- record on his thirteen glass of sour to- champagne. 'cause he's classy chair tipped over backwards and he swallowed the toe. Toe number. One was not a young lad who swallowed toe. Why he did that. I do not know. Possibly the bubbles possibly the chair. All i know is it's not fair because now we can no longer taste the tokyo. And now i would have to drink. Widen my whoa. Wow that was good. That's my toe put for the day. I was good okay. So number two is given an amputation to an inoperable corn. Oh no no gorny to. Oh no. I don't think i'd want to touch the corden. There's been multiple toes of the years of people when they get into amputated. They'll just donate it. This is and they have run into issues of people in america donating their toes. Can't get it across the border because you can't ship human body parts over the border. What if i no no no no no matter what if i lose a toe and i drive over the border and then preserve it. I'm pretty sure that's an international offense. It's my toe. If people can have their teeth on necklaces. I can put my toe in my pocket. Who has their teeth on necklaces. Lucy from winning craig okay. We're moving on to a number three came from a victim of frostbite and was also accidentally swallowed. Yes yes tone. Number four was an anonymous toe. I was later stolen by a hunter. Maybe it was. His toe was like i did not consent. This gimme my toe back. The fifth and six was donated by an yukon old-timer for free drinks for his nurses. That's amazing okay. yep number. Seven was an amputation. Due to diabetes. Okay number it's a sweet toe instead of us. Our to number eight of rydin jarve with the message. Don't wear open. Toed sandals while mowing the lawn a- amazing on august twenty fourth and twenty thirteen. a man ordered Sour toe shot swallowed it and paid the five hundred dollar fine. A five hundred dollar fine because he swallowed the to-. Yeah i mean think about it you can't you don't have an endless supply of toes after a while like it's lost the original. I'm not interested anymore. Part of the reason why like he's wallet. It an exited the saloon in an alternate like drop the to- situation. This was the first and only time the tow was deliberately consumed and as a result. The fine has been increased to twenty five hundred dollars in june twenty seventeen over the tow was stolen and later returned via mail to the owner. Oh mike owner of the bar or the owner of the toe. Yeah they're currently on to- number ten. Yeah yeah kind of loses the effect after awhile plus. I have no desire to drink it too. So do you guys want to be part of this hour to cocktail clerk. Step one you gotta come to the sourdot saloon step to purchase a shot missed. The club. Members prefer yukon. Jack step three. You pledge the sauerkraut oath. Ooh tell me. Tell me the oath. Excellent question moving on step number four watch as a genuine dehydrated. Toe is dropped into your drink. Step five is drink. Your sour to- cocktail. They're over a hundred thousand members. Oh i love this so much. I want to add my name to that list. Would you like to know what the recipe for this cocktail. Yes while cahal one ounce of all ho yeah one dehydrated to- garnish with courage. Oh yep i'm gonna pass okay. Look here's the deal. I love the idea of this. To- that was fully. Saving side ongoing. Yes you have to remember. That tow time is between nine and eleven pm and considering the notoriety of this events torch trap. Yeah maybe check ahead of time and get your name on the list of your in that area. Oh you can like sign up ahead of time for it at least call timberlake available. I have three ladies who will be there at nine. Oh one we'll be doing this by yourself. Yeah i will watch. I feel like if we made it all the way up to this hour. To- saloon you half to do the shot. No i would have a lot of questions because that is in the literal epitome of nowhere. Don't be hating on the yukon. I'm not hating on it. It's just it's empty so we're going up there to do the shot to me. Let me try this from a different angle. Do you know how cold it is all. I don't like the cold. But i would do it for the tow. Would you you get halfway there and start complaining. That's a valid as flights. Absolutely do not go to the city. That's super tiny aircraft. Travel some other way travel by snowmobile. A caged heated. Snowmobile caged heated. You mean a car. There are some places. I know in alaska where you can't go by vehicle. It's i assume the yukon was the same. I think pe- yukon is pretty. I mean it's still very cold daily bad weather but they're pretty well The established Is adjacent to alaska. Yeah i think they can probably get you there okay. Perfect and let's go. And i'm sure there's times you can go when it's not freezing cold and like completely blizzard out but it's the yukon. That's how it's portrayed in movies as a sour folktales. I'm gonna participate but thank you for sharing. Take tiffany. i will do it to do this. Hour to- cocktail challenge. I will take a shot of liquor with you. But i will make sure that it. Isn't it cleaned glass. That the to has not greased. I guarantee you every glass in their has had the tone it at some point gross. Yeah i don't like that fact here to help. No i don't try to think too hard about glasses and forks at public places. What our public places like this that we haven't been outside for seven months. Alad you mean my house your house or my office. You mean the plastic cutlery. That comes with might uber eats livery. That's wrapped. I don't think it's on anyone mouth. Nope not well happy food time. Everybody time everyone welcomes you november. What we ignore the existence of christmas after thanksgiving. I can't make that. Probably as soon as i see and the thanksgiving day parade. I'm on not a moment before i'm ready. I'll be interested to see by the time this comes out if the parade is the thing this year. I don't believe it will be and that's gonna be real difficult for me to process. Yes we'll find all right well on that depressing note remember friends. Everyone has something that they find odd. Let us tell you why it's not if you have any questionable topics like to discuss you can share them with us on aamer. Social media's just search for us a ladies a will pop up or you can go fashioned and you know right and old timey letter in chapter to a pigeon and send it to us. Pro bucks hashtag twenty-six pigeon. That's al pigeons. Were were open our po box and just like four pigeons. We're going to fly out or be dead. Don't check off what can't send instead is an email to us at the latest. Drains of demon dot com. You can always include a picture of the pigeon so we get a good laugh out of their pitching. Gif don't forget to subscribe written and review. And if you think we're doing a great job and want to support the show you find us patriot dot com slash the ladies of strange just a reminder since we produce adult content. You cannot search for us not nope nope ending the show the last line. You range lovelies. Wow i'm gonna food goma.

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299 - Who owns J.W. Dant?, Bypassing Distributors, and Stimulus Spending on Bourbon Community Roundtable #55

Bourbon Pursuit

53:53 min | 7 months ago

299 - Who owns J.W. Dant?, Bypassing Distributors, and Stimulus Spending on Bourbon Community Roundtable #55

"Do you want to find out what the experts and distilled spirits businesses happened to say about managing and operating a distillery should probably check out the distilled spirits business certificate from the university of louisville. It's a six course. Online program taught in part by real corporate fellow. Meaning that you're getting real experience from real experts at the most renowned distilleries companies and startups in the distilling industry. We're talking leaders from brown forman jack dino's and more so get enrolled into this fully online program at u. of l. dot me slash bourbon pursuit. If you're looking to upgrade your sleep do it today with a bare mattress. You're guaranteed to get the proper back support pressure relief and comfort or your money back every. Bare mattress is proudly made in the usa incomes with two free pillows. Try the top rated bare mattress. Risk free for one hundred nights. You can learn more at bare mattress dot com slash urban. That's be e. a. r. mattress dot com slash bourbon. Talked creek is a proud supporter of bourbon. Pursuit at catoctin creek. They pride themselves on making traditional rye whisky as it would have been made in the eighteen hundreds for grain. Virginia water virginia barrels could talk creek. Virginia rye whiskey there As santa find a miami blake lemmings. Kenny seven trouble me old man. You just automatically assumed it was me with feed recently this episode two hundred and ninety nine of bourbon pursuit the podcast featuring news reviews and interviews with people making the bourbon. Whiskey industry happen. I'm one of your host. Ken coleman and before we start the fifty fifth bourbon community roundtable. Here's your weekly burping news. Update the kentucky distillers association has announced that the brothers distillery in louisville the first and only african american owned licensed and operating distillery in the state of kentucky is the newest and forty. Second member of the katie. It was founded by victor bryson and christian yarborough three brothers who were born and raised in louisville brothers. Distillery is katie's twenty-fourth craft level member aging less than ten thousand barrels per year. Could you be the next george costanza. Well maybe now balding with glasses but you could be a hand model for fistful of bourbon and win a hundred thousand dollars. The company is calling the casting. Call the search for the hundred thousand dollar fist. With the lucky winner appearing future print video and social media campaigns applicants must be at least twenty five years old authorized to work in the us and you can enter on fist full of bourbons website. Wild turkey and russell's reserve have announced a donation of twenty thousand dollars to the kentucky distillers associations lifting spirits foundation. It's a program aimed at increasing the diversity. In distilled spirits through scholarships the donation will cover credits for students attending bourbon related certification courses at the university level university of kentucky and kentucky state university with preference given to black students women people of color. Lgbtq other underrepresented groups and moving on to bourbon release news. Jefferson's is releasing its second ri- in the brand's near twenty five year history and it's called jefferson's ri- cognac. Finish the double-barreled straight. Rye whiskey was fully matured prior to being finished enhance elected. Cognac casks for at least nine months in kentucky. This expression will be released at an easy sipping ninety four proof with a suggested retail price up ninety dollars it will be available nationwide both in store and online at drizzly and reserve far barrel. Bourbon has a new line of products out under a brand. New label called stealth them. They're introducing a bourbon which focuses on five to six year. Old indiana kentucky in tennessee profiles using three different indiana mash bills also includes barrels from four to sixteen years old. The ri- is in the ninety five. Five indian mash bill but accented with rai barrels from kentucky and tennessee ranging from four to ten years old and there will also be single barrels but all of these will be bottled at cask. Strength the bourbon. We'll be at around one hundred fifteen through the ri- at one hundred sixteen and these we'll be blended to consistency with a retail price of fifty five dollars available and forty five markets. Nationwide and you can also buy online at stella him dot com maker's mark is releasing their annual keeneland bottles. But this year to limit different this year. It's benefiting the lex arts organization. And they're working on behalf of isaac murphy memorial art garden in lexington. This is the first park the us to honor black jockeys for the first time. This release is not one but three different bottles each with its own label featuring the work of artists saints. Oppa guard. andre. Peter and tyler robertson the bottles are all pre signed by the artist who created each label along with kenyan president and ceo shannon arvin maker's mark managing director rob samuels and one of three active hall of fame jockeys who have won the grade. One maker's mark mile at keeneland multiple times. So you've got have a year castellano. Edgar pro and john velazquez. All bottles will go on sale. This friday april second of twenty twenty one for resins small batch select is to start expanding to greater markets. This spring this is the hundred and four proof. Non chill filtered version that was introduced back in twenty one thousand nine hundred and the new states are as follows alabama arizona connecticut delaware louisiana maryland minnesota nevada oregon pennsylvania south carolina virginia and washington. Dc this expansion brings the total to thirty states. Were small bachelet will now be available by now. You'd have thought had gone through all the news the round table for back at it with another gathering to talk about some more news and our takes on it. We discussed heaven hill versus log. Still distilling over the use of the dant name trademark and what does direct to consumer shipping a kentucky. Me now that distillers can cut out the wholesalers and if you were to spend fourteen hundred dollars stimulus check on bourbon. What would you spend it on. Barrel berman is known for their expertise and crafting unique blend taking lots of different whiskies from different regions. And bottling it all cash strength and you can even buy them online just visit. Bourbon dot com and click the buy now button with that enjoyed. Today's episode now. Here's fred mimic with above the char. I'm fred mimic and this is above the char. This week's idea comes from don not a longtime listener to bourbon pursuit. Who writes me on fred. Mimic dot com. He writes people are posting bottles of bourbon on social media. All the time. Has this jumped the shark. Oh boy oh boy. Dons the trying to ruffle some feathers year trying to get into the instagram and the tick tock of the world and And say like all right. You're posted too much. I mean there was a long time where we were just kind of like hoping that people would cut back on their crotch shots and now that's finally happened and so now people are doing like curated photos with with the bourbon bottles. And you know. I don't think it's jumped the shark. I think what has happened is the game has gotten a lot harder. I mean time was you just have a glass and a bourbon bottle next to a fire. or on a golf course and you know you'd get so many likes and people who that's very nice but i mean now you gotta you gotta have some content behind it. You can't just post a bottle and there's a never ending amount of bourbon. People like dawn. I'm suspecting that will call you out. If you're just kind of like going into a store and picking up a bottles to go good. I got you know. But i just think that's just a part of the modern world. I mean you know. Take a look at tennis shoes. Old school jordan's are like posted on all the time. I look at those salivate and remember a time long ago. And i think it's just think bourbons a part of that entire like lifestyle that instagram and tiktok presents But we are in that luxury space. And it's kind of like you know for those of us who actually enjoy bourbon and for those of us who look at bourbon. Something more than just a status symbol. It can be quite a bit frustrating. So i agree with you there dawn. It is frustrating. Just to see that but it's not going to go anywhere so it certainly has jumped the shark. And that's this week's by the char. Hey if you're like donna. And you've got an idea for above the char hit me up on redman dot com. That's redman dot com. Click the contact button and let me know your idea. And so next week cheers. Welcome everybody to this week's podcast burn. Pursuit we are at the fifty fifth bourbon community roundtable and got myself and fred from the burn pursuit crew. So fred how you doing on this lovely weekend. We had kind of a little surprised sunday rather than our usual monday. Yeah you know it's it's nice. I'm actually heading out of town tomorrow. So this is Perfect for me worked out much better for my schedule. And most importantly the world gets a see publicly with those sweet glasses. I tell you what man this has been a killer week for me. So i'm going in for a consultation and they said you can't wear contacts for week and you have to wear your glasses and you have to put an eyedropper. Four times a day to do all these scans and it's been tough 'cause i never wear glasses and so every day i feel like my body is in the right equilibrium. I can't see underneath my eyes. I can't see over top. It in the middle is okay. So i'm constantly dizzy. What it felt like because it looked good on yet but of course i. I have astigmatism. So i can't wear the citizens of the point where i can't wear Contacts so i've i've worn glasses pretty much my whole life and You know. I feel weird without him so my wife was like you should have done this like ten years ago here right. I probably should've just been putting it off forever and just been buying contacts but we'll soon laser we'll be touching your eye and You'll be better. Let's fingers crossed lasers. If we're gonna have one blind co-host here it'll be fine you can. You can still snip bourbon and tastes. Accentuate your your other senses. Yeah in the like. What color is this. I guess some sort of hey copper like maybe just the guest all right. So let's go ahead and won't use the rest of the crew today so jordan from breaking bourbon. How are you. Thanks for having us county on jordan one of the three guys from breaking bourbon and check us out on all the social and all that stuff our latest release calendar as always wear pumped to be here and You know our streak continues on at least having breaking bourbon on the show. So yes oh yeah we didn't. We didn't say yep yep blake is not here. He didn't join us. He actually said he forgot about it. So we'll see the. He's he's good for pop in at some point so we'll we'll see if he might do that we've got forty five minutes to see a full will actually join us here. But what if we find out that he's like on another like Like podcasts tonight. Or offering i mean only break my heart. It would it would. It's that's that's an easy red card. He's outta here on the star of the show tonight ryan don't know about that. Thanks for having me again though Vcr what fifty five is that where we're at. We are good gracious. So blake makes it fifty four but Now we'll we'll see him so. Brian from sipping corn bourbon bourbon justice. I'm socials at either of those and this this'll be fun. When this is right down my alley and happy to take some flack on behalf of attorneys for why people can't do some things that make sense for what they should be able to do with their own name. So i'm excited for this more. We're gonna we're gonna need all your years of lawyering to make sure you school. Everybody tonight and i spoke too soon because what happened here. He is They counted him out. Yeah yeah the street cannot be broken. I know you know the. There's others out there cheering against me. That i wouldn't show up. But i'm here just got done cooking a whole hog and kind of slipped a mind that it was tonight. So yeah me. We'll tell you so much while she puts away the rest of the hog. So she's like she's like into tupperware. Picking up kids toys. Mike amount z. Love this bourbon. Podcast i've got to be on one very important in your shut up. I know those guys. This is not all right. Well everybody knows blake so we don't even need the introduction. Some skip it. I'll skip it. Let you let you do it at the very. Close it out with it our first topic tonight so last week. Heaven hill filed a new lawsuit against log still distilling but why loxton distilling had in twenty nineteen and is currently building a new distillery in semi kentucky. Sets actually opened this spring but so houses still will log still is being revived by john wallace. Dant who is the great great great grandson of john washington dance and also two other heirs and on its website log still actually says it is reviving the dant legacy one barrel at a time now. The original gw. Dan webs sorry. Jacob dance started making bourbon and eighteen. Thirty six and the business was controlled is family for more than a century. It eventually sold the brand. Nineteen forty three tonight at the steelers. And after decades of more transactions the bourbon brand was purchased in nineteen ninety-three by heaven hill. And it's still in continuous usage to date. Now they are accusing log still of actually violating the trademark law by using his last name. Which would suggest they are. Affiliated with the existing brand in heaven hill says that a family connection does not give them the rights to use a federal trademark since the dant family gave up the use of that mark for some value back in the day and heaven hill. Also wrote something which i find kind of humorous and it's a nice little jab saying and the legacy does not need reviving it's been alive and well since eighteen thirty six so you know before we get brian it gets. Brian's gonna just blake tell us what the actual law we even like. Jump in with our opinions here. I think we should mature opinions. So i see this. You know we. We've seen what. Brian was able to do with Kaseke kind of a mark as part of this. Now he's gonna he's gonna give us the actual meaning of really how this all kind of boils down on. What's going to happen here. We also kind of saw a little bit of a little dant pickup. I know a few of you have some blogs that talk about logs still about dant and you recently had some comments from dan. Family members starting to Starting the increase now. I don't know if that is in relation to this or it's just an navy. They are excited to actually have a new dant in the in the distilling business. But i know that stephen beam is connected to the dan legacy. So there's a few things going on there However with stephen beam over limestone. They talk about the dan legacy but they don't have any products or anything. That would really kind of a theater connotation to it. So they're in the clear. But i'll that's a really way able. Maybe that could be used as precedent in the case. You know from their side like well over here. The limestone branch folks talk about the dance side and who knows but A gosh i with the minute. I saw this my first thought was like you know first of all. I think we all need to bring this up. This really has nothing to do with the quality of the whiskey or anything like that. Which is what i typically care about. I've been covering these damn trademark lawsuits for ever and in these companies. Brian is like he's like a god in the legal world now because all he does. Is you know right about You know trademark law and bourbon. Because all they do is frigging. Sue each other over dan trademarks all the time. And i and. I look at and i'm looking at the brand. That heaven hill owns now. I'm going back to seeing if i can find any advertisements or any marketing strategies or anything that they have done for that brand other than have it been incredible value. It put it in in the in the liquor store. But i cannot find a single strategy outside of like maybe bernie lovers like bringing it to a bar to pour somewhat. I mean i really can't and they're to spend more money on legal fees than they ever did for for marketing on. This brand is the five of us is probably talked. More about dant on the roundtable than heaven hill has over the years. Now i mean there. There's no social media push. There's no i don't even know. They really mentioned it in tours in grab never done every tour but that's a great point like it just kind of funny that they're going all in but i guess you have to but in in. I know brian will answer this. But how do you stop somebody from using their own name. That's like a whole big point of market general is you can't stop somebody from using their own name but i don't know how that works in relation to the whiskey business but i don't know i think it's probably a win for the damp family in this sounds bad but that they are because i think this brings it to more attention in gives you know this new distillery a little more Attention starting out. I'm sure it's a pain in a headache but at the same. Hey we're talking about. It will probably going to dedicate the next twenty minutes talking about it and there's gonna be more articles that come out after this and Overall you know the current j w dance that we have on. The shelf is an unbelievable value. It's delicious bourbon. In so i. I don't know we'll see what happens with the new distillery. No you gotta take on this too. But before they before i wanted to say one of the things like before You know so. That's my side of. That's my take on the heaven hillside in on the dance side. May what were you thinking. Did you not think of maybe picking up the phone call and trying to license the name and maybe they did. I don't know but but Like to me like there is there is a this could have been like resolved before you know it ever came out but In i i'd love to see dance in the back in the business kidney one of the biggest names and bourbon history there so important and you know what wall he's doing as rate i'm excited for it but like i mean i mean they had the no man. No it's one of those things where it's normally no no presses bad. Press right as you've got people talking on damp people are talking about the distillery heaven hills cases though it might be a little bit bad precedent because they really haven't marketed. The debt named too much. They really don't do much with it whatsoever in you know anything about bourbon especially you know People's drink like this expo still cheap blake when you think of bourbon. This is yeah. this is the american drink. And now here's a company saying while except can't use your last name anymore and that people going wait a second like even the you know no matter what the law says it still people associate their last name with it can do whatever they want with rates than. They started taking a combination of all of a sudden. It's a big company going after little man so might might end up biting been hill that way but either way both. Everyone's talking about both brands thing more. So though with fred's impression of kentucky lawyer. that's now what i envisioned. Brian sounding like every time he goes into he has nice. Little draw. do declare exactly guys hit on one of the one of the issues that i wanted. Everyone in on the chat to comment on Can you use your own nate. And if you can't why why the hell can't use your name. I mean it's it's been it's it's they've been in the generation they've gotten out of out of whiskey making i guess two three generations but it's a family name it's historic name. Why can't you use. So that's sort of question. One to post everybody and then to there there used to be to dance distilleries. Because a j w used son j be opened up his own and they used the name in their in their whiskey although j. a. ended up he's the one who made limestone. So that's the steve being connection so they they have both the beam obviously connection in dan connection there on how they use both of those names because they're protected registered trademarks. And then the other question for everybody is wally building this on one of those two sites There used to be one of the. Dan distilleries on this site. And so why can he. Your can't he should or should he be able to tout that fact that he's he's rebuilding on the original side of whichever distillery this is in talk up all the history that happened on that site so we've talked a little bit about the up the naming stuff. What about the the location. I mean can you. Should you be able to say that you've got this. This is the place where the distillery was while i mean. I think that you sort of set that precedent that a little bit while back when with old taylor. So if the distillery is called the dant distillery and it really was the distillery than that will probably fly. Now that is that is the location that is not a product. I guess is the best way to put it the i if it was the. They're going to try to come out with dan junior. Whatever it's going to be that probably isn't gonna fly. I take it in the same exact way now. I have no relation or even know who started the cullman empire of coolers and lanterns. Dr i probably can't get into outdoor equipment and start selling putting my name on it just a guess. That's that's gonna come down with a pretty heavy hammer. hold on. you're saying you're not the guy who put all the coolers out your. I just always thought that was the case the entire time unfortunately. Yeah i'm not sending you all any kind of cool cooler than the males said that old taylor case exactly. I mean it was a it was still standing. Obviously here. there's nothing standing in the problem. Here is while he was using something else called dan crossing. That's a sort of made up name. He decided to use he's there. There's not a geographic location. There's not a building still there that he's touting is this used to be the place he's making a new lights and he's using the dan name and maybe the worst thing is he's He's trying to harken back on what he filed his his trademark eighteen thirty six and his kenny mentioned at the top. That's when j w dance started distilling in a in a log while he's got no connection eighteen thirty six and the allegation in the complaint. Is this going to confuse consumers if he starts talking about eighteen thirty six and he starts talking about the dan legacy in this damn bit that because that's the brand that's existed for all these years and the held since nineteen ninety-three and so he really doesn't have much of a leg to stand on us coming here with. I'm not seeing a whole lot links to stand out and there was One of their images in the complaint that they have put in the body of it and one of them is an article that says log still and then parentheses formerly j w dan at celebrates his first ribbon. Cutting you know that's it. That's that's not accurate in its showing that there's confusion between wally. what's wally. Dan is starting. And the historical brand that's existed and there's other distillers all along the line that have run into trouble trying to use their name. I mean if you go on the makers mark to her you hear this great story about in the wax and the kitchen and all these sorts of things. They wanted to do something new. It's makes my story but it's not exactly full full story because what ill senior founded and we got sued over was was calling his was using the samuel's name in his in his still renate. He had to change the name because he got sued. So there's that lawsuit out there. There's a few others because bourbon is so connected with using names and it's your son's name. It's your uncle's name. Everyone wants to use that name. So it's protected any can't use the same name if it's going to cause confusion even though you can't put your own out now bryant. You said he didn't have much of a leg to stand on. But what if his legs were made of money and he had a whole lot of money but he did. They were golden then ask. How much money does max have because the complaint alleges in two thousand nineteen. Wally came to max and said max buddy pal. Why don't you tell me the the dan nate. Let me license it. Max told no they did it anyway so that that goes to show that he did try to make a deal heaven. Hell wasn't willing to make a deal and it's sorta shows. Wally knows he needed to ask. That's pretty damning. If you ask me yes so. That's the brought that up in the very beginning so like going back to my original thought when i was talking about the dances like okay. So you had the conversation and and didn't go your way you did it anyway. He did anyway. I mean when you look at something like this. Brian what could possibly be the repercussions or what could potentially be the outcome. Would wally just say that's fine. Let's just drop it now or as heaven hill saying like no. You started this like we're gonna finish it and is it going to be monetary as it can be like well this distilleries. We're going to bankrupt him like what. What's the possible ways this could go. Yeah at at this early stage. Fortunately for wally with not not having product down not having bourbon out with that name on it and with eighteen thirty six logo that he has. He's got a chance to to change everything and try to work out a deal and that happens a lot. There's a lot of threats from from big distilleries to start up distilleries and they ended up changing one word and they get to. Maybe keep the same logo. i mean. that's happened that here. Within the last eight years of a distillery had to change their name or the second word of their name and they got to keep their logo So a lot of times. These big distilleries are going to be threatening lawsuits or suing. Because they feel. They need to enforce their trademark. But it's early enough that you could change something. When it gets too far off the trails he got a situation like brown foreman and and barton when they actually had to take those bottles of ridgewood reserve off the retail shelves. Now that gets expensive but here early enough that they should be able to make a deal. You know it's interesting. I think it'll be fun to kind of see how this is going to play out like jeb. Something else to either. You just had a question on that in the deal. I mean from what you're saying will most likely be like you can't use any of this right or you think they could come to a compromise for the dance family at this point. I mean my guess is gonna be your your. i guess. You can't use any of this now. Brian seen those initial negotiations back. Just nineteen didn't go great right. Yeah could could they kind of really drive this through hard in the cords trying. Put on business right here now. I don't know what the damages are going to be right now. So i don't know that they're going to be d- do enough to get him out is because they don't again they don't have that product out. They haven't sunk a bunch into putting this on bottles. It's not out in the market. They've they've sued early enough. That damages should be low I think they'll be able to move on so it will be able to bounce back from it but assuming log still still gonna a name. That doesn't matter. I mean does that have any yechury locks still should be fine. Locks all day long I think the way. I read the complaint in the motion for an injunction is that that haven't hills concerned about the name Use of the name dan. So the moral of the story is when you are looking for a name for your bourbon. You have a good trademark attorney and you do a lot of searching to make sure that there is nothing that could possibly be connotated. I think it's more than that. Do i mean. I think there's prior to here. I don't think this has anything to do with like Galaxy and we in jordan brought brought up This in the beginning folks. We might be looking at a pr play. I mean i remember dave pickerel and he was Part of starting a popcorn sutton's brand. They purposely created a Their logo to be almost exactly like jack daniels just so they would get sued. Get all that press and they'd be like oh well we didn't know what it means to but by the time that they got You know they changed everything you know. They got a half million dollars. The press out of it so that might be the angle as well But i wanna know in. I know this you might be breaking your profession here a little bit. I wanna know what both sides are gonna spend on legal fees. Can you give an estimation man. I can't even estimate. I mean lawsuits have a way of getting a life of their own. So if this isn't resolved right away. I mean it's hundred of thousands of dollars for heaven hill and So cindy kind of length of fight so heaven hell could Spend half a million dollars in legal fees. Depending depending is this is a three year case asher yeah it depends they have lawyers on retainer in in house and whether they're how much direction paying is one of these people proud one of the party is actually has half million dollars to spend legal fees. One probably dozen. So he's well he's right he's yeah i mean the and a ton of money while he's put into this and the other thing he can do here's is he can try to make new precedent here. I mean he can make an argument. That at the name is his in this particular situation for facts that we don't know yet because all we've seen as the complaints maybe there's something else out there. But under some set of facts he should be able to use the name and it's worth it to him for to fight that either out of principal or for marketing purposes. Or for some other reason. He's got some some argument we don't know about so this could this could go on. You know heaven hills always very aggressive. They've you know like they protect evan. Williams like like a hawk. There's a distillery in north. Carolina had like origins to seventeen hundreds at day. They kind of kept from using some some williams language and i get it for brands that for brands. That are your flagships. But there's just i. I'm going back to what we stayed at the top. There's just not been a lot of love to this brand and it just feels it. It fills us silly to me as when Jim beam stood up for old crow. I'm like what the fuck have you all ever done for old crow. you know it just. I dunno brian. It feels it feels silly to me to protect a trademark. You put like no effort in. is that wrong. I mean i'd say if you're it's a revenue generating part of your business. You gotta protect it. No it's they. They alleged in the complaint in twenty nineteen. They sold twenty five thousand cases. So it's it's not the biggest brand. It's not in all fifty states out but it's it's source of revenue in they own. They own the mark. And you gotta protect part of the law. Trademark law is if you if you have a registered mark in you think it's being infringed upon you gotta protect it. So that's why all these companies whenever there's a whiff of violation or infringement. They they send a cease and desist letter in sometimes have to sue. There is a great comment on here too that even though it might not be having a lot marketing behind it today they can always develop in the future or sell it so it definitely has a future play into it as well you know the other side of the is is that just from wally standpoint. It is a little unfortunate knowing that you have this great legacy this family history and decades ago your grandfather just sold it off which means your sol ever doing anything with it so from just like a personal perspective it. It is kind of a blow. But that brian thank you so much for talking about that. You gave everybody a lot. A great insight into the legality of this is and and really what people need to understand when they are putting forth a label and what they need to take into perspective especially with people that have a history with heritage distilling and names and everything like that too so thank you so much so hire lawyers. That's vacuum out. Psa for tonight higher. Brian specific buddy else. Anybody else find the irony trademark in your whole purpose of getting a trademark so you can sue somebody when they violent. I'm like it's gotta eat too man. I tell y'all pretty well. Click somebody go register mimic bourbon. Actually i don't. I don't think he can do that without you know brian. I don't know who's got do brain to all right. So let's move to our next segment here. So we've talked about how kentucky housed four fifteen spirits. A french league exploded onto the distilling scene. Early in two thousand sixteen as indiana's largest double pot still distillery. They employ old world sentiment with new world attitude. Delivering the finest handcrafted bottle blonde bourbons to audience eager for an alternative to the big guys and they're still are alum bishop uses historic hoosier yeast strains alternative grains and fifty three gallon number two charge burrows to bring you spirits with unparalleled quality and of flavor. You can find all spirits. A french lakes products and new releases on seal. Box dot com. But don't just take fred minutes word for it. Find out for yourself. Checkout spirits of french lick dot com and follow them on instagram facebook and twitter and remember always drink responsibly. it's time to fling into spring at total wine and more or fresh flavors are in full bloom and we're talking bubbly and brunch with pino on the porch. So no matter what's on your table. They have the wine and the savings to match bacon practically begs for chardonnay. And which rosaiah are you feeling today. They surely have your shade. Brighten up your glass with the fresh bourbon. Cocktail mint juleps for belmont jewel. Anyone with over eight thousand wines four thousand spirits and twenty five hundred beers to choose from you can expect the unexpected and always at low prices with the best service in america. So what will it be today. Choose curbside pickup or in store pickup. You can explore more in the store or online at totalwine dot com all right. Let's move to our next segment here. So we've talked about how kentucky house bill four fifteen a few times on the podcast really. That was the first domino that was going to start opening up interstate commerce allowing shipping to consumers increasing maximum purchase limits at stiller's and also allowing cocktails at the distilleries as well and this was amplified a bit more by the total wine versus tennessee supreme court case but a few weeks ago an update to house four fifteen was enacted into law that gives kentucky distilleries of more freedom and more money their pocket so previous in kentucky. If you wanted to go to a gift shop at any distillery in kentucky and you purchased a bottle will that bottle likely went from the bottling plant to the gift shop but kentucky law says that you cannot sell directly to consumer and you have to go through a wholesaler or distributor so that distributor gets a twenty to thirty percent margin just through a transfer on paper so they didn't really do anything except collector. Twenty five percent tax anther margin on it. However this new update now gives distilleries the ability to completely bypass wholesalers in sell direct putting more money back in their pocket. So this is a huge win for kentucky distilleries and perhaps this is going to be another dominant of fallout. We can see kind of going across the broader spectrum. Because i know that we have preached the gospel time and time again about how wholesalers are taking too much control. This market needs to be a little bit more decentralized deregulated from that so i'll turn it over to you all and and kind of see you know what we think about this and and blake. I really want to get your perspective as well as as a retailer Is as good as bad as as hurt. You is it okay. Kind of that side of it. Yeah i mean. I'm all for the modernisation of some of these antiquated laws in Might go to line. Every time i get an email from somebody on sale. Vox of hey. Why can't you ship to me mike. i'm sorry. I hope these antiquated laws. Change soon You know. Talk to your congressman senator everything so while this one specifically doesn't necessarily benefit me it just you know it starts moving things. Forward distributors play a vital role in the alcohol business. But i don't think they necessarily need the you know the full on monopoly effect that they have at times so i think it's i think it's good for smaller distilleries in kentucky. I think it's good for larger distilleries. In anytime we can kind of push push the boundaries. A little bit on this. It's it's a win in my opinion in you know i think Now we'll see this starting to pop up. In other states it seems like kentucky liked being on the forefront of this and i know ohio has started pushing for something similar. So you know. The dominoes are moving slowly. But i think we'll start to see more and more happen over the next few years for sure. I think once about a two. Is it really incentivizes kentucky distilleries to really even enhance their visitor. Experience that much more right so onsite bottle sales now take on a much more important role. So do they do. They try entice consumers they can limit so just like distilleries do now you're limited to buying so many of these scanners. Id haven't held as the others do to but they hold back more of their special releases right or harder to find bottles that only on the distillery to entice people to go there because they know they make more of a profit margin off the And they're able to hold back. I think just opens up a whole new mindset and hopefully we'll see just the expansion of let's make the distillery destination for the consumer interest adds even more of that capability of being more like a high class vineyard in how they sell bottles and stuff like that which is exciting. That's good point because what the the goal is to drive. It's not only to get your product out but it's to derive people the source and really make this what they've been trying to do for so long. Make it a destination trip where he spent a week. Going to. Several of them are long weekend. And and that's what does it if you can have something special at the distillery whether it's one of the standard limited releases or a know they already do still re only releases you know some of these great for roses ones in particular that will get you out there. Yeah i mean we look at this. From the perspective of kentucky because kentucky wants to be on the forefront they want to be like napa and i think this is probably been the biggest push that the katie a. is has gone through is because they do see this as sort of the way that the lifeblood of bourbon can grow and it can get more consumers and and really help all the visitors and everything like that so this is just one thing. If if you're gonna try to compete with that you have to have something that allows distilleries to be able to put more money back in their pocket. They can reinvest in a distillery and then they can still help themselves gross. I i see this as a huge win. Yeah i do want to kind of toss it over to you all because it's really hard to see how this will work in in a few different ways You know the direct to consumer through the gift shop in the cocktails like that's easy because it's just paperwork you've got to file your own tax. I think it to follow your own Whatever kind of sin taxes at they're all you know there's crazy amount of taxes that go into it so there's a whole new level paperwork and i think we talked about it before as well as when we look at shipping. Now we can say okay. Now we can also direct consumer shipping from it are many distilleries. Really gonna start picking that up though because for most of them you have to create a whole new job role of somebody that's going to go and take orders and then star packing them. In in japan. I know blake knows firsthand. That's not an easy thing to kind of set up and do mo in wise coming to of kinney course money money money the interesting thing i think they have to actually fulfil from the dsp even like they can't even set up like okay. Here's our e comm warehouse. Call it. i think the law reads where it actually has to come from the dsp which is kind of a problem for some of it. You know you think about like an angel's envy who's downtown is. I'm sure they'll find space but it you know they're not set up to fulfil but to friends point. If the money's there they'll figure it out figure it out there are so excited about this i mean they're basically in a lotta ways This is kind of replacing their some of their growth projections and everything for international markets. I mean the tariffs. I mean right now kentucky bourbon distillers base go like you know what we really want to support poland. We really liked to get stuff over to france. But until these tariffs are gone or focusing on here and these this direct to consumer shipping has them so excited. There's one other little clause. There's a little wrinkle in there too. that no one has talked. About and that it is now legal for these distillers to ship to us the media and before apparently they were doing it illegally so they were doing it through the but they do through the marketing firm so that that can have. Oh that's right. Yeah that's what was happening. They were shipping it. They were to the marketing firm with a chance to send us. But how all my samples came from a marketing company. Going going back to your comment really quick fred. You know. I think it goes back with more than mine too. When you think about making kentucky in kenny mentioned making it more like napa right you go out to california you go to new york. Their wine region oregon washington fear visitor near flying out there. You can only pack so many adults in your suitcase right and if you hit up distilleries you're gonna take stuff home with you and right now it becomes really hard so all of a sudden you have people go down. There coach ciller shy goto. They're like all. I can only fit three or four bottles my suitcase. All of a sudden they're going distilleries thereby in three or four miles each stiller having them shipped back home. This is a huge boon for. That's a win win for everyone. Involved right and then more people talk about going to visit kentucky and this has just great. Great value to the state's going be pretty exciting. Yeah i i am stuck for it. A brand like one of the best brands i can give you his peerless. So peerless is you know. It's exciting brand for a lot of people. They like it but they have hard. Core fans peerless has developed kind of like a like a mini like wild turkey kind of phantom and like you know we got peerless and the patriot community. And everybody knows him for his love for perlis. There's a lot of peerless. Peter out there and They're able to just get this relationship directly to you know to their consumers and just maximize that and so i think this is going to be so huge for those kind of like small to mid tier brands have developed a really big fan ships like peerless. Mb roland wellness sheldon need any help. But they're gonna be able to get a little bit more profit off of their bottles now. Yeah i think we're going to see some more things happening. Like what blake had just started over seal boxes kind of having this like the month whiskey of the quarter sort of club that you can join now by being able to do that. A. new release ca actually makers already started at right makers did that earlier this year of being you know get rc. Six or some of their would finishing series and have them being shipped to you. However it's only limited to residents of kentucky which. I don't know how big that's going to be until you can really scale acting out and really grow your footprint but being able to have a a superfan that says yes sure. I'll take any new release that you have signed me up and once a quarter your credit card just gets charged in a bottle shows up your door. I think that's an easy way. You look at reoccurring revenue. That is a an easy win for a lot of people to absolute. So let's go ahead and wrap it up with one last fun question here. And this one was actually given to us by brian. You know as as his demi checks rolling out across the country and he's gonna get in four hundred dollars in their bank account. What's your what's your by. would you go. is it a bottle as it. A a bar flight. What's what are you. what are you going for here. seahawks dot com back. That's where i'm going. I'm getting a whole pigging colin up. I think it's a good opportunity and make the same joke and single robust. I've list price ranges. but i honestly think is a good opportunities for people to stock up on their everyday sippers they love and splurge that bollard that you've been looking at for longtime kinda on free choice. Spend the money on something else but at least by something. Nice even debating for a long time right. so so. It's a little mixture belt. Gone right jordan. If darren alislam or people undergoing secondary. Which i'm sure we'll see a little spike. I bet you will see a spike on secretary in. I think some of the what i'm guessing. You're maybe i'm hoping at the very least is gonna go for some of the more Truly vintage spirits instead of things that were released last year. But i'm with you jordan guessing things that That you can get the values that are out there. The the old forester nineteen twenty is such an incredible value. Four roses small batch selecting get get some of those and then been treat yourself get. Get something get something. That's exactly catholic for myself. I would probably blow it on a dusty because big dusty person and those things are getting cheaper so any sort of free money that goes to candidate in it. S the truth. That is true. You know it's weird. I don't really. I don't really know what i would buy here. I mean like. There's so many things i can tell. You can give you a long list of things i wouldn't buy but honestly this is. This is the bottle i continue to find. I find myself buying no matter. What and i'm like hunting for more and more. It wasn't my whisky of the year. Or i mean a finishing in finnish. Well but the george ramos repeal reserve I've been. I've been oddly hunting. That bottle and it keeps getting drained. and so like. I give it to my friends and more and more. I find myself really wanting that particular expression so that that's what i would go for. Yeah right on liquid. You good the blakey. Yahoo joke event. i mean. I'm kinda with kenny. Like some of the dusty stuff isn't getting any cheaper but there's still some some value out there my opinion some of those bottles so i've been i on a bunch of dusty pints right now and so may may pick a few of those up and then And shoot it. It's it's hard to beat. Would old force putting out right now. So i may go buy a bottle of dance to just for fun but me right wally over it and you do that. You'll have thirteen hundred and eighty dollars left. That is a good job. Fellas is a roundtable discussed a lot of great things. Brian thank you again for lending your expertise your law knowledge because it's definitely goes a long way when we would just speculate and probably get wrong so thank you so definitely only go ahead. Yeah we'll go. we'll let you all kind of do your sign up so we already called. You let you go first. Yep brian with sipping and and bourbon justice. Check me out at either of those online and on the socials at sipping corn and blake really. Happy that you're here. I saw one of the comments about. I can't drive fifty five t shirts coming out if you had made it so. We're happy that you're here. Happy to be here. Go ahead blake. I'm blake from bourbon and seal box Yeah i did. Miss the intro. But i made it just in time. So yeah you check out all the social media if you go checkout instagram. You'll see why. I was a few minutes late because i was cooking a whole hog in trying to clean up after that so as always dexter emma guys lafon. I'm gonna start making a new thing where like you'll have to hand off to somebody else race. I was like. I was kind of like what sure what to do with it because brian did that. And my on. I got to. Can you tell me. It's okay to say yelled at jordan. Go ahead so this is. This is a jordan one in three guys from breaking bourbon. You can find a separate bourbon dot com on all the social is check us out for near daily released calendar in updated reviews and kenny. Fred as always. Thanks for having us all hail. Yeah for sure guys. thank you so much. This was a fun episode and make sure everybody else can follow them. Follow us in pursuit. Your socials also follow fred mannequin by everybody's books gators got some books or by some buxton get knowledge and scored on everything but what that cheers. Everybody thank you so much this verb acuity round table number fifty five in the books. And we'll back again next month with another one until then jeers baucus gears guys.

kentucky Brian blake stephen beam dant fred wally jordan brown forman jack dino catoctin creek Ken coleman kentucky distillers associatio victor bryson christian yarborough russell's reserve kentucky distillers associatio university level university of kentucky state university
Dad Bob Rap Pod Ep. 127- 'To Live and Die' with The Questions, Felicia Viator, AWOL ONE

Pantheon

1:42:00 hr | 1 year ago

Dad Bob Rap Pod Ep. 127- 'To Live and Die' with The Questions, Felicia Viator, AWOL ONE

"Dad, bod`ed rap cod. My Name Is Demon Carter Aka Jim one. I am a lifelong citizen of the bay area. One of the tenets of Bay area membership. Is Yourself posted a hate La. which I did for a great many years, so I actually got to go there and hang out. In? fucking love La. Elliot's fucking amazing. Perhaps my favorite US city. In, so this program is sponsored by Randy Newman. All Love La we got it. We love it. I, am joined by the less serious fellow La Lovers. Mr Nathan. J Leblanc How's it going? I'm good. Thanks to I'm the same as you like I. I always had this vague sense that I was supposed to hate la and there's like there's a weird thing in my family, and maybe I could just ask you if you heard this to like. La Steals our water. Couple of family members who? Over this thing like one, we're supposed to hate the dodgers. I i. don't even know if they have a football team. It's mostly a dodgers thing. Where am I? Kind of do it. The doctor still saying great colors creates designed dodger stadium. Very place to see a game, but yeah, there's always been this. We're in my family about stealing our water as one of the reasons I. Just don't care about. Yeah I'm also a fan. Two of my best friends live in the L. A. Area I've visit as often as I can. It's the center of film industry in many ways the music industry they have amazing food, except for swirls, moldy jam and like. What like what we're supposed to not be into as beautiful weather and everyone's hot, and like there's tons of things to do so yeah L. A. fucking rules. And also here in zoom. Mr David Ma Kula. Who actually talks to cool people from La much more much more than being nate do. How's it going? Dave Hey. What's up among? Thank you ma'am. Thank you. It's good to be here again, Man I love L. A.. Right now I miss L. A.. You know what one of my last trips before the world ended was in La, and we were lucky enough to play some records at peanut butter wolf go line bar, and that was just ridiculous experience I mean. He has the old old school rotary mixer, so just makes you sound like an amazing Dj. Every record is warm. It's fuck. It's just it's just the perfect dynamics, but I mean when I'm La I. Feel like I'm home. You know, the palm trees, even the way the. Some of the houses are set up like it feels like I'm on the east side. Sometimes so I really love that and Elliot's food game is just. You know like we. We need some. Food, game action in L. A.. Has that Shit and I love La Dude. I'm never got caught up in a lot of the sports, rivalries or anything like that. I have family there and you know I. I love going to places where there's diversity now on, grab a Taco and some records and I'm good. David Ma with advice for life. Goes records and were straight, and now that's kind of the the whole theme of this. Episode, Episode One, Twenty Eight of the Dad Bod pod. A the world is in flames. We continued chugging along with high-quality podcast content for y'all. Nate I. Do want to note that this we. We did some themed episodes early in our run where we were like. We don't have anything to talk about today. Let's talk about Chicago. We used to build it around the guest. This one have been a little bit more organically like we. We happens to interview. in La based Game Experience, who are buddies? FELICIA, WHO's the author of a book on L. A., and then underground rap sensation a well one, so it's a it was just funny to like. It's like these three things seem like they don't make any sense, but the connection is that they're all la based or about away so i. don't mind taking a little time like Elliot's also a very important hip hop city like. Just Limor Park. Thing. It would be one of the most important things in my hip hop existence. Let alone gangster rap, and like ray of areas like regional kind of like diversity of sounds that comes out of there, so I just wanted to give a little peek behind the curtain, like or not like. Maybe, we would move to la, but that's a whole different. Basically, this all lined up, so we're leaning into it, not the other way around. Yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting that for this for this episode. The theme sort of built around, so it's it's really cool when that sort of happens organically and I would definitely move to La. Just. which whipping out their future employers! Putting that on my Lincoln as we speak? What's what you? Yeah I definitely moved to L. A. in a in a heartbeat. my son who is an aspiring musician that is his number. One goal will be a senior this year and high school exclusively looking at colleges. His whole bid is to go down there and I feel like. Area, artists and somebody who has been you know. tangentially are directly connected to bay area artists in the music industry of I think the big differentiator is cool. Actually moved to La and I stayed in the bay area, so it might care I'm like Rojas go at least just go to you know you can always come back home, but don't spend your life. Thinking about what could have happened should live hundred miles away right? Go go check it out. Try Your hand at it. As a billion other people are doing. But it will be interesting to see what the experience is like you know. In the kind of Cova de World that we're living in right now in you know I I do look forward to being able. To get back down there. You guys pulled back the curtain on the fact that this episode just came together which as an artist, I hate me do. I like to take credit for everything that happens. That's like my orchestrated all that shit, but if we would've. If we would have taken a little bit more time to put this together. We could have come up with our top three L. experiences and we don't have time for them right now to do all of them, but I'm GonNa put on the spot. GimMe one of your top three L.. A. Experiences Nate Leblanc. it's actually Venice. Beach I had a friend who worked at this restaurant called Jelena when it was really cracking, and like it was like the coolest restaurant you could go to, and we got to go to their second year. Anniversary employees only party. And Yeah! It was really really. Not Stories about it. On. A I did two things for the first time I saw someone. Sabre Champagne in front of me loud. That is where they take the back of a long knife. You run the back of the knife along the bottom, and then you cut the Tom Thing. So holly a okay Sabres, the champagne right in front of me. I stick my glass out like hope. There's no glass shards in it and I'm drinking like you know. Ice Cold Champagne in their back beautiful deck. It is literally the coolest restaurant in the world that point and I'm back there with private access in on that night toward the end of the night. It was kind of like a buffet, and you went through the kitchen to get the food. So a couple of guys were cooking, including the cook or the Chef Travis let when he just bullshitting with everybody, and no one knows us or why. The fuck were there including us, but it was amazing to be there and so. Eight two things that completely changed my life that night one was A. To Rib Niemann Ranch Pork Chop. That was caramelized to a degree on the. That it tasted like Bacon, so it's like this like Shattering Bacon thing and then when you bite through it, it's the most like succulent juicy pork job in the world. One of the best things I've ever eaten in the other one was a butterscotch. Cody Cram with sea salt on top, so these little pots of the world's most delicious butterscotch pudding with big flakes of Alvin on it and like just the ratio in the way that hit like I. It's like the only way I can describe. It was an ecstatic experience. It's probably. Unprompted. We're talking about this photograph last night. And how is one of the best? I got some in. It's all in L., A.. It's all about exclusively right? It's like and invited me to Soho House yet, but I have been to a private dinner at. Like like what will work on are getting our game up, but what about you, Dave? What's your top LA thing? Man I had there's so many, but I gotta I'm just GonNa pull from a recent memory, which was on our way to Mexico City about three years ago, my partner and I stopped in La for a couple of nights and every time we travel. We take a lot of edibles with us. You know what I mean for the for the duration of the vacation right so we're in La and you know we're at an AIRBNB were sorta sort of sorts and we take some edibles. Next thing you know you know. It wasn't fifty milligrams five hundred milligrams. So we are literally like fuck an acid trip and walking around, but it was one of those sort of experiences where it's like. I feel like home and we're going to get really good grub right so we're looking for Korean town and you know for those who haven't been. It's like. Oh, where is it? Where is it? Oh, I'm here. I'm fucking immersed diarrhea town so literally on. Four, hundred and fifty g's more than I thought I would be eating barbecue. off the hook everybody us alone, and we still got a load they afterwards. Amazing. That's you want to be. A nice. Nice, yeah, this is a continuation of our. Arena forty. What about you doin? It's interesting because I think Dave. We were in L. A. in Koreatown. At the same time we did I. Tell You. Except you were just texting random emojis, I didn't understand why. Now the EMOJI. I was. I was there with my family, not on ables. mytalk La Experience or I'd say one because it happened that time to write them, but. as frequent listeners of the pot might know a DJ. D. Styles is is a really good friend of mine so. One year I forget when it was, but it was very early in the low in theory run. Came to La. He's like Bro. You have to come to low end theory. You've got to come to the airliner like shit is GONNA be fucking. Sake I didn't quite understand what it was or even the beat scene I didn't understand what it was, but I went went with my guy maestro game in Shutout to him. It was so we go over there. It's IT'S A. It's a small little whatever club. It's nothing amazing, but going there. It's like this multi level club. You know we're dumb. High stopping this doorway, this Kinda crouching down to get through the doorway dispels turns to me and he's like. Hey, this is the homey Flying Lotus. Oh. What's a whatever What is it data? This was there dressed as a kind of a leper. Connie Dandy type of person. My suit was wild. Right so so I'm out there. You know whatever they have a balcony area out there smoking and drinking talking with people. And I forget who was playing, but somebody dropped a portishead joy like right after gang, star or something. and to me, this was just so fucking amazing again. I hadn't been dry. The beat scene I wasn't aware that people were making these connections so. portishead drops and I'm like. Everybody looked at me like. Are you. fucking new! Why are you so exciting? L. A.. Wandering Star. I think it was wondering star. A soul, so it's just that kind of experience where I felt like a hick. You know what I mean. I felt like a rube. But at the same time it was just so amazing and so kind of like typically La. You know seeing people like i. know who that is and everybody's just kind of hanging out and chilling and that's when I had the visceral like. Why am I supposed to hate la like right right passing me, we'd and talking about how much they love the bay area like totally. Yeah, so so we hope that a post Kobe La will come back so that we can go there and our work there Elian players. But I love San, Jose to let. Let's get canceled over here because we have to stay on NATO. Shake your head. This episode one twenty eight like we've been saying. We have a triple decker interviews. Coming up I believe our first triple decker. Nice. We've had some interviews where the one rapper talked for the length of three interviews. Nature Right, I do believe this is be I a triple interview so here's gives the line a batting leadoff the dodgers we have. A couple of folks were really cool. Called questions hip hop. They do a hip hop game trivia. Since we were participants in this game, which thankfully is not recorded, anywhere was on I live A. We didn't do so hot. It's it's a really dope game in in a fun experience, so we have A. Dj Steve Wonder as well as a sean from the questions on. After that we have a `nother dope interview with. Felicia the tour. We just released a book called to live in defy in l.. A. A history against rap changed America which is out now on Harvard University. Press and then. And then. BATTING UP! We have a Walrus a wall one stalwart. Do. Voice I love when you interview the rapper, right, nate when you interview the rapper and they sound just like they totally like. Not really why I do this. Sounds like their voice. Link God if we ever talked to Biz Marquee and he does not sound like the Biz right? Yeah, that's GONNA. be a dark day. Right right. So fellas. There, yeah, acquitted vapors Biz don't talk like that. So yeah. One being a wall one on the program yeah, always dope to get to talk to a some movers and shakers from the La scene as well as people. We respect deeply so like I said. We're going to get started with our interview with the cats from questions hip hop right here on the debt. Dad Bob Route pod. Another dope episode for Y'all another job interview in the land of Zun. We have special guests. On their program not too long ago, and they were kind enough to stop by rap with us today from the questions. We have Steve Wonder Sean Catcher wits. They embarrassed days on. On an episode of questions about trip podcasts. No, we all went on there and it was. It was really fine, and then we We got to be the ringer in the final round and. Yeah it was. It was a good time how you guys doing. Good this is going to be thirty for thirty where we just talk about how? The performance. To say why I missed each question I did. It all a post mortem on our very middling a performance on your show, but we wanted to kind of learn more about you guys than how the show got started. And how you guys know each other. Don't you? Take us back to the beginning. The beginning well Stephen I are actually cousins So but we didn't actually know each other for most of our lives I I i. I moved to the to the West Coast, of Los Angeles about five years ago. Maybe six years ago and and I sort of. Knew that I had this relative that I'd never met before, and we had a mutual relative recommended to be get together, and it was sort of one of those cool things for not only was it somebody roughly my age who? You know. Like I got along with that, we we got along, but also we discovered. We are super fucking pop heads and like that was. Just a really kind of interesting Interesting pairing there and Steve, I guess we were just sort of I. I don't really remember what the Genesis of the idea was though yeah! Well the story. I was GONNA. Say The story starts with my aunt. Actually who crazy enough after a wreck, she recommended us. Connecting for a long time shows new BAMA DJ agreeing Bob. She's like Oh. This choose a you know like always gossip being ruminated Oh. This cousin are glad I was kind of like putting it off, so like I had known about discussing and then finally just connected. Yep I. Mean just you know being being super into Alderman Asia and everything Steve, being a DJ I come out here to to. Music producer instill M.'s still work I'm using just sort of feeling like there was a real untapped. I were. Because these sorry that it feels like we're rambling here, but you know I think part. Part of it also is just. Having been to scores of live events because it started as a live event, questions was alive event, and you get to a certain point where you might be developing a dad, bod, or your your energy, your dad era, and being maybe just a little, less enthused, but going to hip hop shows or going to events or nights where it's DJ's spinning, and of course like those platforms in art parts are always going to be great, but you do something a hundred times. It's maybe going to lose a little bit of its. Its Luster, so we were like. What have we did like a Trivia night, but we did it. We made it really don't what what what have. What have we really made it something that we would enjoy? You could just as easily get people who would otherwise God's Dj night or a hip hop show and get them to come out to a trivia night, and actually like legitimately enjoy it. You know so. That was ever sort of what launched that into year, and then we've shifted with covid nineteen, obviously into becoming A. Cam Girls now her all broadcast. The Rona. So that's that's that's what that is. Yeah. That's I guess what all of us have been tried to shifting. Go through. Have you found? Its has added anything to the show having to do it in the in the virtual space, 'cause I was really impressed, but we went on. Is You've got the beat machine? Kinda got the graphics you know set up in such which was all that pre existing? Is that like wrinkles? You've added since we've been in quarantine. That was all really added I mean the images were always part of the live experience did before when we were doing live. You know in person events. And the DJ always played instrumental, no pun, intended part in a lot of the music elements, but we sort of. I've said this before. I mean heading that Steve, righ don't die from covid like I think the pandemic is actually the best thing that happens to the questions because it. Removes, a lot of the removes a lot of the logistics of having to do live events in his allowed us to spread a lot faster and reach a lot more people than we did before you know. We were just starting to branch out into other parts of the country outside Los Angeles. Really at the top of the year, so it was a little disappointing at first that. We got to pump the brakes on that but. I, think the doing it in a digital space has been a blessing for sure. You guys have had a wide range of people on. Obviously you know people like notables like Dante. Ross or you know rappers recently must've ace. DJ'S WRITERS, START! All kinds of people. I guess my question is. Do you have a hierarchy of who a performance like does? Well, who does the best did do the DJ's do the best or the producers do the best or the worst like rappers do the worst, or what still order? I'm just kinda curious. Can actually pull that up, but I mean see External Manua extrapolate on Steve Volley. That I think while to what you were saying. I think like we find it important to have a variety of guests and we found when our our shows like the week. you know the week is rapper heavy like all right. We need to bring in a writer now. We have to bring in. Like cycling, because then it becomes. We don't want to Pigeonhole us like. We just had to Mir more. WHO's an actor on insecure comedian? Great Guy I think the wrappers in Dj's do better right track star digital. He'd yeah. I can tell you are so. We have fifteen questions in the game as we've done on and these are. Nobody's ever scored perfect, but these are all the people. It's like a list of five or six people who've gotten fourteen out of fifteen railway. Don will from tiny Morgan. j. e., the producer who did all of Nellie first album. WHO'S A homey bars? redid most. Attract Star, the DJ from, run. The jewels. MERCE. Comedian and actor Joe Derosa. Yet and. From little brother. Porn exchange those are. That's nearly our top. The, guys who were close. Okay? Okay, that's awesome. We had really really good interviews with Don Willett Fonte as well like both those guys have mad. Stories are mad cool, and like they're. They're like not even just hip hop music heads in just like permeates. They're being so I can't say I'm surprised at some of those That's awesome. I want to ask a little bit about each of you guys individually Sean. It says in your twitter buyer. Grammy nominated musician producer like tell us a little bit about your your your music deal, please. Yeah so I like I said. I moved out to Los Angeles, it's sort of more heavily pursue. The music. Things I also had always worked in video production as well, but yeah on moving out here. I done a lot of like underground stuff, a lot of underground hip hop. You know playing on people's records because I kind of started as instrumentalists irst. Guitar, Yotaro keys that kind of stuff, so I'm sort of where I made my mark, initially just I was the guy that all the homes that I had who were just more traditional beat makers I'd play on their stuff and moving out to Los Angeles from Florida which was where originally from don't hold it against me police. I I started. You Know I. Obviously. There's so much industry in business so One of the first big things that I really giving moved down here I wound up. Playing on Dr Drains Concert Allah. with was nominated for the best rap album that year, ABS in two, thousand fifteen, and that was just a really cool experience I was working at the time with the artist who was signed to after bath, and got to be a lot of really interesting rooms in like just a lot of like pinch yourself like wow, this is really happening and Yeah so I did that and then worked also in the pop spaces, well a mutual friend of Steven. Our heads he Produced on for Kelly Clarkson and I played on to her records as well, so yeah, it's I. Definitely am a music head in a musician at heart, but. It's Kinda. Cool I think it's sort of like brings a little bit of an element of nerdiness to like the Trivia Element here because I was always somebody who was really reading. The liner notes in obsessing over it because it felt like you and more pertinent you know to my life was. Right on Steve, my heard of you before way before I ever met you because you are in excellent. Dj and I think you run in similar circles with some of our friends like king most in cuts. Oh, and I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't have time to go running. Flip through all the mix tapes, but I have old mix tape of yours. It was like seven different DJ's doing like segments. On there okay, Super Seven J. C. O.. Put that out. Yeah, Gotcha. Gotcha Gotcha okay. That's where I think. I heard a decade ago. something, that's crazy. With. Let me. Just let me date myself from fast now, but actually got hit to you guys through cuts only like I think he had posted about I think he was on episodes. You guys where you were breaking down liquid swords and I had done a mix tape him where he it was the clothing Raymond San. Jose a hallway I think. He had done a to lakeside and I. Did Ah Jisr Aside? You know so right when I listen answered is an incidence and these guys are on like. This is my you know the humor. You guys had the breakdowns. These guys gotta going on so I. became a fan of you dies instantly, but I I mean I've been DJ -ing. Since high. School, you know. It started in the mid nineties, ninety, five, ninety, six and I've had a you know a career, you know. I definitely reach heights I never imagined I would from a bedroom Dj to college dorm party Dj to Indian restaurant DJ. To meeting DJ AM? About the whole club in Hollywood scene to nightclubs and traveling the country and traveling the world actually and always have been you know. My roots are in underground hip hop in. Alcoholics. Project Blow like my heart lies in west coast hip hop. All Hip. Hop but you know have going to evolve in the scene more pop music you know. I didn't mix as we Neil Armstrong in the early two thousands just like I've been able to do so many different things that you know when I started Dj was just like. I Love de Zhang. It's Cool I love music. You know, so. You know I had a really cool Are you know now you know that all brought us to? You know meeting Shaw, always being obsessed with liner notes and the brakes and the nursery of pop. You know when? My older brother, and when he first put me on a hip hop when I was like seven years old, so like maybe eighty six, and he was he like he liked Pandora's box for me. 'cause that young he. He showed me that it's an it's a never ending door or a achievable discussed the history, the connections and everything like it's just this universe. That's ever expansive, and that's you know knowing that it's like Oh. We should do tribute show like there's so much you know and you know we can so much to talk about so much history and we know that they're like minded. People like that just like when I first heard podcasts in. Think you know I kind of missed the blog fear and I wasn't really hyped to being online. Sean was big in okay player boards and like. I'm realizing how much of that Universe's expansive online now and. Covert hitting right now is brought us. Bet It's like we're here now, you know. Yeah Yup we're all kind of. Trapped in the same space, but able to connect them I'm wondering how. Come up with the questions themselves that it a collaborative process Kinda like research goes into that. There is a vetting like. How do you on on good question? Well, I think when we first started like the first integration of the game we ever did. We thought we had made the best you know. We had made the best version ever, and then we take it to the people, and you see how that goes like Oh. We might be showing a little bit of our thirty something. White Dude bias here. We really need to maybe. Make, some adjustment so I kinda early on. We, we sort of rebel a bit in. In covering all of the spectrum. Where in like I always been love when we would have a lot of our friends who are like super like brainiac you know had to surgically removed Jan sport like years ago from there back. Let's throw it Amigos question. You know what I mean because it's still hip hop, and it's and it's still it's still relevant to somebody so doing those sorts of things. I don't really think that there's anything that's off limits. I mean. We've certainly had questions about artists that I know that either of us don't like. We, we, we put things in there. Because I think it's sort of all important but You know we spent a lot of time in the beginning, figuring out the different categories and different sort of like sections of the game, which I think has really helped. Give us a lot of identity I think? I I write a large bulk of the questions, but we've always sort of had like Steve and other people who have have worked with us, you know we'll sort of feel advice because that's the thing like we all have our hip hop blind spots, and even is similar Stephen. I may be in some respects. He grew up in the west coast. He's like five years older than me. I grew up on the east coast in Florida and like. Like they're just certain. Things were authorized reference to him. Health reference to me and we don't know what the other is talking about it. It's kind of been what's cool about having all these different people on the online version of the show. We're not really ever trying to hit anybody's blindspot. When they come on the show, we we, we serve also realized early on that. No one wants to tune in and watch. Their favorite rapper failed Might have really short shelf life of enjoy, but it's not really like it doesn't really hold for a duration of a game so there. It's just sort of figuring out what. Figuring out what is in somebody's WHEELHOUSE and figuring out? What maybe is just like? They'd have to stretch their wheelhouse and. Hitting those when it comes to games where we have guests, you know. Interesting so it's Kinda like it's somewhat tailored to the person who's coming on which which makes it felt like we got set up a little. Record is no question in there. That was that was a softball softball for the crew. What! Now that we're in this new space, you guys are kind of expanding in some interesting ways. Like. Where do you envision as as the next step? Because when I when I Finally got to watching it. Kind of a light so edgy live was. Was a tough hurdle to get into, but once I could, I was like. Is this how the hot the the hotlinks show came came about like. I'm just saying which is like a syndicated fuck show now, so do you guys have those type of aspirations is this is this kind of word all that is going in your in your. Eyes Oh so. I think so I mean I think even from. We always sort of like talked about the idea of how big we get this whether it was. Going to be. An event that toured or exploring like sort of developing it into maybe a longer form thing in in you know without saying too much. We definitely have started. Conversations are sort of exploring that territory. I think the tricky thing is just making sure that it still retains the spirit of what it is. We're doing you know. Like. That at sort of the challenge I suppose. You know I'm a I'm sorry. Were you going to answer that Stephen? Okay I just wanted to pull back the curtain a little bit, and just from from your guys perspective. Obviously, you've had so many shows with all these wonderful guests. which are your personal favorite ones like you know the shows where you guys walk away and you're like that was a home run. That was Super Fun and the person was engaged. Which who is after you guys? The first one the first one to us which was messed up because it was early on and I was actually watching it while I was trying shop at like target, and my connection was bad kid from kid and play was early. One L. He. He's I have my friend is good friends with him in La like he comes to the dime sometimes like he's ahead. You know what I mean, so it was it was it was a it? It was when we when we asked him to be on. He was cool with. We tried to do at once and it and it and it didn't go through by Numb. That was the first show that like I feel like He. Had the same energy and matched and was dropping stories. We never heard house, and then you'd have Dante in the chat, talking about the Latin Florida and Mike. If this is US building, other community around this show in everyone's talking to each other so I don shock could probably speak to some other ones, too, but that was the first one was like all right. This isn't just like. Blah Blah Blah know. We're bringing were were offering a a new voice in the hip hop. You know sphere of of nostalgia or you know Talk Really Oh. Yeah I think what we have never really said this books for well. I think that will we sort of realized was that? It's not actually a games. It's really an interview. Skies does is a trivia game for the first really for the first three quarters, and then we go into the last round, then it becomes like really vizquel high stakes. Would ever so I think it took us a minute to actually like? Realize that, but once we did you know I would. I would really love to have like who we had on our first week back again with that in mind. You know you re relaunch. The first week we did five shows in a week which we very rapidly learned was not going to be sustainable to. Even though that's kind of looking to do now, once we get twitch running, but I guess. Maybe we're a little bit stronger now, but. I think that the highlights. Yet, kid was declared good one. It was really dope. We had DJ Mr. See on the show, and it wasn't just cool to have him, but it was cool that he actually approached us about being on the show He. When? We had to ace on the show, and he just happened to pop it. What is this and you can? He was commenting in the chat like this is awesome. I WANNA play in like he you know. After the show. He followed us in redeeming, and I was like well like we're booked up, but like can you do it in like two weeks and he was like? Aw, I would really love to do it next Thursday. I'm biggies. Birthday and I was like. Rolla. Exactly what we're going to do, I'm not going to tell Mr. see like Sorry like we're already are doing three shows next week. So that was a really fun one and that was a game and we decided to make it again. There was all about big, so it was like a big centric game, and that was really cool on the Dante Ross. One was incredible to Dante and he just talked forever, and we wound up. You hit that our limit on Instagram and then you're done like. You're not allowed to. You know DJ logger or Rather broadcasts learner that. You're nicer. But But Our our ended, and then we went right back and went another forty minutes. The game was done at this. Dante was just talking taking questions and like I. Honestly I cut it off at at the our thirty mark. Because I wanted to eat dinner, I would a went into another. So, it's really cool when you have people who are like engaged in willing to not talk about themselves, even though we're totally down to talk about that, but I think the show really brings out like the fan in everybody and like that. That's the those usually are the better conversations I think. You guys talk Right You guys heard. You're great, and we really appreciate this and we're heading towards the rapid I just have to say I. Think Tha David Damone like it's amazing. How much when you talk about what you're doing? It sounds like what we're doing. Totally we have. We're all dirt when we have those little moments where we look at each other like ship. This is really happening and it's my show. Loving this you know what I mean. It's so cool, so and Dante's kind of a dream guest for us. Yeah, also we. We have that moment where. I really want to eat dinner, right? Classic, record but fun. It's a real thing. What are the What is the drink? Guess where let's speak it to existence. We have kind of short-listed dream. Guests that we have for this program for you, guys. What are what are the dream guests? The guests that you haven't gotten yet. Sleep. While, I was GONNA. Lead into funny that you say. And then explained. Well I, mean I. I'm almost hesitant to comment on things until they actually haven't, but I think by the time this airs. have had quest love on the show. Yeah sick! which was you know? Somebody really wanted to get on. We of the industry called a very good get. A very good debt. And? And he asked to be on the show to. Make, woman. I'd love to get I'd love to get somebody to get like Dj. Premier for up to get Just blaze like I I think the guys would have great. Great Stories Yeah, those are probably on my list Steve Anybody. Not, specific just say like. Of course the begets gets in the people who have followings are the best for their brand the growth, but you know like someone like e swift from the alcoholics I would love to I'm not like that, so it's not like you know like the way we're hip hop fans. It's like we hold things dearly in all types of rounds, and it's not just because how popular it is, so you know. That would be really. Don't guess to me or guys like that like the Unsung dudes who left an impact on the game, but but no one is trying to Holler at her. Like gets things out of buzz. And and and new guess too I. Think like Sean saying earlier like it's like you guys. Skip us to a lot of Dope, new rappers and Auditing. You guys. You guys talking about him, and then. When you guys had gary on the show, and then and I know you recently had him, but that record is like my record. Much saying we're glad to do a little just to shine a little bit of light on it. I think he is his own best promotional tool though. Like if you don't like my album. Flake we're we're doing little audio things, and it's like a making my notes and I'm like well. That's the Audio Graham leg. Yes Sir Great Yeah. You guys are killing it. This has been really cool to get to know you a little bit and produce much for having us on and turning it into an hour commercial for the show, and just like this. Let's like. Keep building as we as we grow our shows of just really admire what you do. Yeah, one hundred percent. You mentioned community a little bit early, and we're very much big about that into like. See you guys grow and thrive. That's so dope man. We're here. We appreciate. You guys were big. Fans of what you're doing, and you know like just in the same way that you said Oh like you see some they. Basically were kindred spirits like the same things that you guys see you said you saw and what we're doing. We see and what you're doing. It's really cool so I'd on our. Good man, maybe someday, we'll We'll make it down when there's if there's a society left to participate in. Down for a show. Sure absolutely need it. If there's any venues open to do things at exactly. Yeah, middle field like Dave Chapelle all right? Thanks for coming on the program. I WANNA. Make sure folks know it's Mondays and Wednesdays. On July what time. Were Mondays and Wednesdays at six PM Pacific. It's at the questions hip hop on instagram. We are on twitch. Twitch DOT TV. Slash the questions hip hop. Those are the ones that matter. CHECK US out. Awesome guys. All right guys take care. Well these guys use. Dad Bar rap pod. That was our conversation with the Super Chill. Combo Steve Weather Sean from Questions Pot WanNa. Thank them for coming on, and we want another shot at the game to redeem ourselves. What you? They take another shot at saying John's last name. That's the final boss. Question for those guys I know. You don't have a hip hop name like Oh. I was like Sean. On online he goes by like Sean, dammit. That's his sandal. He was like no man. Kanter wits John Cancer wits. I apologize for butchering your name. We appreciate them for coming on. Really feel like they're going places with the program Check them out Mondays and Wednesdays I g live I believe it's six PM. P. S. t. up next on his tripleheader of La We have Felicia the tour. A her book to live in defy in La is out now, and she dropped a great many gyms on it, so here's that interview pod rap pod. Another week, another interview another great guest. commenters shapers, a culture always at home here on the rap pod and today in the temple of Zoom. We have FELICIA via tour. Who just? Put out a book called to live and defiant La, how gates to wrap changed America out now on Harvard University Press Felicia. How's it going? It's it's good, thank you. Excited to talk to you guys, USO, so you have the distinct pleasure putting out a book at the end of the world and and so I I know you had you had a a release scheduled in in the book is finally out now. Yeah. It is came out in February. Actually so it's going to journey, yeah! Definitely be tough, but in light of everything that's happened in American the wicked uprisings, and such a this book is definitely more relevant than ever taking the look at not only the rise of Gangsta rap, but kind of. Impacted L. A. Politics Culture, the black community policing, etc. We've said on his show. A bunch of times that in terms of like anti police screens hip hop was way way way way ahead and knowing your book. You talk about You definitely talk about NWEA. But could could you just speak a little bit about kind of how the the the topics and things we're dealing with now are almost kind of old hat especially when we're talking about L. Gangster rap. Yeah, I mean it's not relevant when I finished it because I finished it around the end of the Obama presidency. so right. That's like the moment when black lives matter in. It's also when When white nationalism is really? coming out in force right so like it felt relevant, because like l. a. in the nineteen eighties. That that curated when we associated with Reagan saying that you know okay now we have a colorless society, and everybody has equal opportunity achieve. And folks like really buy into that and that what was happening? L. A. Really refuted that mythology, and so if there was a weird way in when I was finishing the book, it felt like. Folks were starting to see the mythologies of the Obama. Era, and that sort of like post racial era play out in the way that the way these police shootings were on becoming such big news in and and black lives matter really pointing to to. That being a pure mythology, so yeah I, you know. L. A. in a way I'm not the first historian to say this, but there's there's a way that Los Angeles. Is such a fascinating city to study because it's like. It's like the most American city in the sense that it's like where everybody goes to achieve their dream, and then all gets. It's this mixed bag that people have to grapple with. And I? Think that that's especially true for black migrants who go to La. That's what the you know. The book starts with that story of. Early Black, migration to La, and how folks have these ideas of what they would find their ultimately. Are. Really frustrated with the fact that there's so much racism in so much. So many obstacles to achieving. Yet those those dreams of of the California Dream? so it's an interesting. I found it to be like an interesting way to. Just get a snapshot of the frustrations that we're seeing now in terms of you know what America's supposed to represent and ultimately. The policies sort of That the American dream Represents yeah. I would like to go back a little bit. I Wanna I was hoping you could tell people about your past as a DJ, and how that perhaps informed how you ended up writing this book, which is Music Centric, but not a music book per se There's there's a lot of other threads there, but if you could just give people a little glimpse of your former life, and how it may be informs your current work yeah. So, I mean yeah I started Jane the late nineteen nineties. I was a mobile. DJ, for a few years about like ninety, seven, ninety nine, and then I moved into the clubs. And you know. It. I grew up in the bay, was born and raised in the bay, and so was really influenced by the barrier. And so when I became a DJ and one of the first woman in the bay to the a DJ. You know it just. It gave me some perspective on Dj Culture on the economy of the party culture. Again you some perspective on things like Party Promotion Club Promotion, and so a lot of the stuff in the book about the Mobile Dj seen in La, and I'm sort of like the economy of like mix tapes in St Tapes. that. I had some insight into that before I started the book. yeah, and then I read a lot about hip hop and was just like really underwhelmed by what I was reading I just didn't find like there was much in the hip hop literature that was in the even after some of the stuff in the mid off like I, just didn't feel like there was enough literature that was really getting hip hop, history or getting the subject of hip hop from the perspective of history. That was really kind of helping US understand. The context in which these genres were Blossoming La There was just not a lot that really explains why. La Rap ultimately crosses over and smothers hop music. You know why it wasn't New York. La Does that in one thousand nine hundred, so. When I went to Grad school I just. Wanted to ask them questions and investigate bat, and ultimately the those questions turned into a dissertation. The dissertation turned into a book. yeah, yeah, you wouldn't say like this. But as someone who partied in San Francisco in the late nineties and early two thousands DJ Neta was out there like you're a very good needy, and just I, just want people who may be listening to this in hearing your voice for the first time to know you're the real deal so Questionable. Thank you yeah! There's a long ago. Well. On topic of deejays like to to your point earlier. The certainly is a book about music, but it's it's to me. It's a history book. You know contextualising so much and You know what I found. Fascinating was the little segment on DJ. Lonzo Williams. Could you for people who don't know? Just speak on him and sort of conceptualize of what he did in the efforts that he did, and how that added to the book and the Movement that you laid out there. So he's. He plays a small role in book His role in how that. This sort of larger landscape of La rap in the in the eighties develops especially the way. The Mobile DJ kind of migrates to the clubs he's he's central to that I mean the fact that like he was helping establish the club scene at Eve after dark. And the DOT becomes like a really important format for propose to get onstage to get themselves known into sort of build a crowd and build a local bill local fame local notoriety. And he? His Bro I think is important in in terms of understanding. That? There was something pretty insular happened in La during that period that you know if you if you look at a club like the radio for instance, which a lot of hip hop stories are really fascinated with because because it's it's it's you know it features heavily in that in that documentary, breaking and entering Phnom and it's like this really diverse place their. Their Graffiti Batra backdrops. They're like e boys on stage I'm of course. ICED tea is wrapping if you if you're looking at that club and you're saying you're. You're hoping to get a snapshot of the La Rap scene than you're missing a lot. You're really not seen what's happening. in the Uncle Jam's army. Party is right. You're not releasing seeing happening at Eve after dark. Which is really? Aesthetic! It's a different VIBE it's predominantly black, which is not the scene that you're seeing that? The radio which is like a lot of white kids coming in from from outside away a lot of leg, industry moguls were coming in there to find talent. But the wet Alonzo was doing what you know, what? John's army was doing Roger Clayton. They were really putting together something that was four. Predominantly black kids in in places like South Central, and Compton and also folks coming in from Long Beach, that was not intended to speak to like industry. NPR's like it was really supposed to be for them. which I've, which is important to understand because this is where gangsta rap comes from like gangster rap is ultimately this music that was created four L. La. It was not created for anyone outside of that sphere, and that's what causes over so lagging the you know. The kind of larger argument of the book is like we should really be surprised. That ultimately is what crosses over, and what dominates what kind of Lake reverse colonizers pop music by the nineteen ninety s something that was made specifically for L. A. Fans. Or for awesome, thank you. Sure so in this book you really you really do have this kind of race analysis that you're laying on on hip hop history and I'm wondering for yourself as a woman who was in the in the bay area. Dj See who is engaging with Gangsta. Rap as in many ways I, did how how do you kind of reconcile the tension there? I listened to ice cubes. You can't fade me the other day and I was like I used to love this song. And as and as a forty something year, old man who's going on his own, you know. Learning about eminem ago. This might be the worst song of all time like so. How do you you know I know in your research in you as a fan? How how how do you? How do you reconcile kind of bet that tension between what gangster rap has represented a lot of ways in your own sense of gender? D like the gangster aesthetic Irgeen, sajjan E or both or well I guess I would say both because I see misogyny as as part and parcel of that steady. Yeah I mean so. Let me. See if I can kind of combine the two because so I get a lot of questions about what gangster means right so like I think there are ways that we that we mythologies gangster. We think about gangster. And these kind of caricature ways when I was writing the book a lot, a lot of the ways that I tried to think about gangster because I'm historian because I, mean historian a pop culture so I. I think about gangster is like bean. The Twentieth Century version of the outlaw end gangster like if you think about gangster, the history of the gangster image inlex cinema for instance like the Nineteen Thirties right that that you're looking at. This old idea that it's very American of somebody who doesn't have traditional power doesn't have traditional forms of power and then. In does not have access to normal pathways to success right, so if somebody powerless, who is trying to gain money? Power Stacked Ray. TRIFECTA Trying to gain by any means necessary and so skirting laws. Skirting the traditional pathway, so so I think the way that I can reconcile. Some of the the. Problematic caricatures let's say. Within the music is that I'm thinking about gangster in terms of An identity that is. Not Limited to the gun toting. Drug dealing kid gang banger, but it's like something much bigger and that is is about working outside the law to survive. And then if you think about gangster in that way then. The Not only do understand gangster rap in that larger his that that longer context, but I think it's also a way of understanding why women would be answered. The music I mean I. The conversation about Misogyny is is often about like trying to parse out right like car south how rappers deal with women and the music like? You know how I talk about their mothers for Sally talk about their friends or how they talk about quote, Unquote Hose or whatever? So, there's ways in which the criticism site depictions of women like sexualization objectification of women. But The for me I mean. I was into the music, and like I've talked to a lot of women through this process to were instant music, and like I think it comes down to power and not just power as represented by the rappers themselves, but also about you know. Women loving the music in part because of like. The here, the heroism in gangster, the heroism and somebody who doesn't have power who is seeking power by any means necessary, because women don't have power either like women are trying to to. You know they're. They're trying to figure out a way to gain power and respect in their own ways to to navigate the system, and so there is. I think if you think about gangster in that way than some of the other pieces fall into place, I think. yeah so I mean it's tough. I do deal with massaging in the book. I talk about massage, W as music talk about like draze assault on. D Barnes. Yeah so it's in there It's complicated. Very very complicated I I love though this this framing around of. Heroism for the traditionally powerless, and it's just. It's really interesting because I feel like heart of the energy of that music, and especially at the time interview coming into power. was to put down. Women best was one of the one of the key components, but I like how you're. You're pulling it back and saying this. It isn't American Troch. 'cause I get mad when people pigeonhole like Gangsta, rap invented Misogyny Lake. It's definitely. Yeah for sure. Will and it's also. It's also It's anarchistic device right so there. They know that they're so sophisticated. which is I think the other big. Case I make in. The book is the Dayton easily is such a brilliant promoter. He really knows how to leverage controversy, and so you know part of what they're doing is. They're looking at culture around them looking at popular film. They're looking at comedy. They're looking at reality. TV In tabloid TV and they're. They're doing their own spin on that because they know that it's GonNa draw attention to the art and the they're going to. You know they're if they create a record like fuck the police then folks are going to be paying attention to because they're creating controversy and they've already got you know. They've already made Laid laid the foundation for for folks thinking well, these guys are scary. Let's let's like pay close attention. yeah, so it's a device to for for. FOR GETTING THE SPOTLIGHT I'm glad you brought that song up in particular because I wanted to ask you about your Washington Post op Ed on fuck the police in it's kind of current residents, or perhaps not as current, but it how it was resonating through society when we were having massive protests and actually I'll just be honest with you. I don't know who's protesting news not anymore because of. Of the news isn't covering it so I guess it is a current protest movement, but I thought the point that you made when it came out that this word is considered so filthy that you can't even say it in the newspaper you're writing in. It about was well taken, but the question that I wanted to ask you to kind of expand upon is Why is that Song so relevant? How does it capture this moment? Still when it's such an old song, and do you have a candidate for a current song that is in captured in encapsulating similar feeling or do? We have to look to the past for our protest anthems. I, mean I. Don't think we have to look to the past I think. We shouldn't look to the past all the time I mean I think especially in hip hop? It's important to recognize. How dynamic the music is, and how much it changes, and you know part of what I wanted to make clear. In that article, I mean it's Washington Post right so so the audience is. Broad. And I wanted folks to understand that history, but I also wanted to make sure that looks recognized that migos for instance was doing is doing something now. like you know. Twelve is a much bigger and more prominence phrased in the protests now than fuck the police and I. think that matters you know and like. FTP Not a reference to nwea reference to. Weiji is also like super prominent. And of course, he put out a video shortly after the the protest started taking off, why did I. Mean I think it is? Isn't it was an anthem of? UPRISING THE LA uprising. And I think. That uprising still resonates especially. I mean I tried to think like I I've taught the riots recently and been like Oh. Shit like my students. Were not born. Remember nine eleven and I'm like okay. So how do I a? Why does this still resonate like? Why is this still? Why does NWEA the still resonate? If like you know if a lot of the kids who are protesting now allow the partic- now we're like not if they you know they weren't even. Born yet. But I you know maybe the straight Outta Compton Film in Twenty fifteen helps resurrects their legacy I, mean they? You know that that film was huge. You know in Kendrick Lamar's like participation. The promotion for that I think helps. I think! Kendrick and his career has helped you know. Keep that legacy of NWEA I've. I mean raised very underrated recent album compton. which is such a fantastic record? I. Think there are ways the artists themselves people say with artists have kept that legacy alive. Fuck, the police is just like the perfect. Bill the perfect phrase for this moment of an. Ancient tiny and cheek like I really it really still it works. It works in banners it works in Graffiti it works in. You know in a way that folks, sir, it works as a chance, so not some some of those some of those phrases. Just they they stay. My next question, it was basically out of curiosity for you and your work, and I'm the process I'm. How did you link with University of Harvard Press and sort of just for the aspiring writers out there? What was the proposal process like and also? was there anything that you left out that you kinda wanted to be kept in there? So I will say that any aspiring author. Thank you, just you you have to. You you have to take a risk I mean. I pitched to Harvard on a whim? I had no fear because I was just ignorant of the process. Of New. If I you what the process is really like I would have been terrified and probably wouldn't it pitched? I pitched for practice honestly. And I was just lucky because editor this Guy Andrew Kenny at Harvard. He was a hip hop head I didn't know. But he was like. He kind of tested my knowledge, which was interesting it as a woman I was as women in in the hip hop scene in the bay, and having been a DJ. I was used to guys testing my knowledge. and he like wanted to know if I knew DJ quick was. Roy. Is fired. but like so he he was just very encouraging and I I don't know I just. I just had no fear. And that's and which is not characteristic of me. I have a lot of fear. You know I I just really thought that there was a place in the market for this book. Especially because. I felt like the UH genre of hip hop. Scholarship was getting a bad rap. No Pun intended. In the sense that like is kind of an echo chamber like a hip hop. Scholarship was written for other. Academics. And like a lot of theory, a lot of jargon, and with the exception of a couple of books like Jeff Chang's book which he's got, he's a journalist by trade so like his writing is great I just thought that like there was room for a book about the history of hip hop. That was that felt leg stories the entertaining in that Legs Loretta needed. so it's yeah that and he bought it. and felt like there was a space for in. Harvard was great because It's an academic press, but they do like they do general. Trade book type stuff suddenly really wanted to pitch it to a general audience and that's what we've been doing is is trying to Get some general ions attention pichit like broadly. Yeah some thank you. That's a lot of insight. I think it's really helpful for any aspiring writer. Really sometimes you just you just gotTa. Go for it, you know. So to see you go through the process and have all this wonderful success. That's great. Thank you. Back to say it sounds prestigious. Cool Nah. A second honorary doctorate or something? All right well FELICIA. We're so privileged to have you come on the program. Thank you for for Bossa this. We'd love to have you back on the program. We want to let everyone know that your book. To live in define la how Gangsta rap. Outright now on Harvard Press I think Harvard's lucky to have you for carbon. They're lucky to have you I. Never bought a book off Harbor Press, but this is definitely dope. I read some excerpts, so thank you for coming on the program and we just appreciate you sharing your time. Thank you I! Appreciate conversation. Dad Rat pipe that was our compensation with Felicia via tour. To live in defying La is out now. We want to thank you for coming on. Nate. You have an interesting story of how you connected with her. Long before we even had a podcast right? Yeah, it's not. It's not like a great story. Just like I feel like I should mention it like I've been in her house because I bought her and. And her husband Ross hogs record collection when I still worked at the record store, so I used to spend a lot of time on message boards. As did Rossa that time, so I made a connection with him, who actually kind of knew where we have a lot of mutual friends in the bay area DJ game but yeah, they had this really. Really Cool House in San Francisco and they had this kind of like a very dj e collection they were moving out of their DJ lifezette into their having kids life, and they had like this kind of like unfinished basements I just said this cool day with my Buddy Jeff for we stopped at this really good Deli and got good sandwiches, and then we. We went and bought all these records, and it was really cool to chop it up with Ross. I DIDN'T WANNA. Make the interview about him at all. 'cause it. She has her own accomplishments, and I really wanted to talk to her about her great book that I enjoyed reading a lot, but it was just it was just weird. It was just like Oh. Of Our guests I haven't been in that many of their houses. Through wanted to mention that, so yeah, they're. They're really really cool folks than they. They have a really cool family at like. I'm just like I'm. Just read people so just thought I'd mention it. That's awesome. We're so pleased. Have on the program continuing the streak of women being great interviews. On this program, so we? Drake. Ager for her time and up next, because that would be a whole episode if we wanted it to be, that would be a whole episode, but up next we have a man who has both Walrus in bear in one of the more iconic voices, a West Coast pop history Mr a wall, one of who was kind enough to nerd out with us. We're big fans, and so here is our conversation with a wall, one Abbad rap pod another episode, another job interview in Zoom, right now we have. A wall wine also known as a Walrus. You might know him from his work with shape shifter's Daddy Kev If you're west coaster, you definitely know. We want to welcome you to the program Matt how you doing well. Thanks for them appreciate yet. So you bet around for a long long long time with some of La's most notable rap crews. Can you just tell us kind of a little bit about like? How did you get started when you first start? Knowing rap was going to be your life trajectory. Think. Maybe the word Jensen holiday was like. When I was around sixteen ish. Dj a lot of backyard parties. You know just just being to be part of the scene and DJ and Moseley. Can just turned into me rapping because everybody would be drunk at the parties or whatever. Grabbing the mind from turntables. So I ended up. You know always in the mix, too so visually outages like I didn't like the shit. That I heard started make. That's dope that's dope. And Kinda what? What was the a windows? The first time really felt like you were on like when you were like. I'm really out here I'm really doing this. I would say there's there's certain points where I just feel everything. Came together. You know what I'm saying. And then there's times like man you know. I should have been A. Solo blank, you know. Kind of while he's Phil back on screen printing. That's right right, right. But Yeah I mean there's definitely been points where. I feel like it's life. Life is a dream you're. I am I WANNA. Just touch briefly a little bit on planet of the shapes Would you know what do you remember about making that I mean those nineteen eighty I? you know what were you doing around like? What what was? What was that time and place in your life like when you know the indie rap boom started to creep in. And then how did that lead to the album and talk about making the album a little bit? or A surname. To this work graph yard in East la remember going down there because near was painting and. Sudan scuttled like when it circus and and at the yard. window Gibson Chase. On three short and then certainly ended up exchanging numbers and. He already had planning shades. He kind of already have it like in the baby stages. Already Kinda legged thing. He's like Yo, check, music! In making you know what I mean so then. Adopt a thing. We all died in turned it into something. Over Like all over the place it had starved wasn't really cohesive just a lot of. A lot of like little sections shit in Midan so then. Around that time, I'm trying to think of A. There was like right before we need to circus. I guess okay. Okay words. I wanted to ask you We touched earlier about like how long and prolific careers Ben you've worked with. So, many dudes, you know Mike, nine abstract, rude slug bus driver do symphony like all of it you know. Of all your collapse of all the celebrated clubs which went sorta stands out where you're like. When it was kind of like a a pinch yourself moment like I can't believe I'm here right now. A lot of a lot of those collapsed share, they have little story attached to because in those days. We didn't do reading flat verses over the Internet. We had to be there together. It was a shared experience. We're all in the same room, rough bouncing shit off and Cheddar and. So. You know the. Kinda, bum. Maybe the older songs Mulino little bit more just because of the process. Okay okay. Were there. Any of those collaborators at stood out or like a funny story or just you know something with any of those characters you worked with. Maybe, the first one that we do is slow winners pretty interesting. And flew salads open atmosphere in. And it was really cool and you know we're coming. Where fucking? We played to show the windows in banging in the next day. You know chief Cologne invited new circus of slug as bad over that night. He was like fuck snowing at the. Four try! I think we're still still on some different ninety four is. A. After reportedly like we just recorded try. and. From there. We became friends. Action like. Cap for well over twenty years. Stone! Super Super Dope on I i. just this is Fan me right now. I just want to talk a little bit about a sold out your your collaboration with with Daddy. Kev How how did that come about like? How did you? You kinda clicked in his production in your your unique voice, really five together. How did that reach out to him? Did he reach out to you and like well? What was that process like? Oh. That's new a new life. Supernova in is and they would go to place. Was Celeste you? And so Egeland visit high cats. On the cameras like Hey, you WanNa jump on my record I think he's working loss dangews. So I jumped on. And then. I'd already had on got single ready to Issa. Cookies are on. And so so dad gems like. Let me put it this out mile in. In those days were a lot of finals, so. Through ten thousand barrels right out, GEICO slop week. I. Like lx big at whole record and he had just moved in this apartment. And so lots going through his apartment once a week and we were doing like a saga week in Rhode. AMX. A rhythm was like. I, think that was like one of the last trade we did. Touch a great songwriters living room and you know. It was definitely fancy. If, we can continue down the road of various projects. I just wanted to say like I'm a big fan of yours and like. Your music was really important to me especially when I was in college. Just a minute now, but I just I've always found that your a specific. Like Way with words, and you're misanthropic like. I. Don't want WanNa. Use the term depressive. I don't want to edge into a you know. clinical territory, but it really spoke to me and I have a couple. If you don't mind, can do in like lightning round like if I tell you a song, you tell me if there's anything you remember about it or if there's any little. Tales of it I think there's four. Is You just kind of rhythm? which like I? Love that song? Love that record of of the twelve inch of the art like stuck an incredible so let's start with the Nardone twelve inch If you don't mind telling me anything about like sleeping all day, which like this was like a personal anthem for me like this is like some played at my funeral ship for me. It's just I love this song so much. actually record was young royal. WHOA praise, there is a flyer that circulating out there that has that record on there. They had the single flow and factor series. Won't miss. Well at you as well right? Yes yes, yes, yes, absolutely, so we according that for a grand. In, the prunes I think sorry a Mike and do not that time I've been. There is Jackson there. There's a couple of other. Yup, but sometimes on that song and. between Nardone inviting can, there was a little bit of disagreements to chat off, and we put up to Max and after all of that I, don't think that. You doing series anymore consume. Starting to kind of like two other shifts, so yeah, this we had this record. So that's been presented to Cabinet Celeste you. Nice yet great artwork on that one to like you're you have a knack for like? It's a full product or not I mean it was just like a black jacket thing which was so big during the boom back then okay. This one might be a little bit obscure, but I'm like obsessed with this song. It's on the fat. Jack Cater to the DJ albumin. It's called for me. You remember recording that winter like for me. It's one of your more upbeat songs than I think it actually is. It's a little bit of a rhythm. Switch up for you, but do you remember anything about that one? Yet Fat Jaguars recording at his house. At that time, he built a studio. You lose. and. Still we doing night like rotating door waivers chilling out. Get in the room in the courts shit. And manner. Think that they. are so either colds Abba had. The Covenant Non. Thirty. Rights Shin. And those times and you know dream school law. Slam. Really, remember how that song came about. It started like as a joke a couple. For Jobs, and then you write them down and then you just keep going like building off of. Almost like an inside joke that somebody eventually Kinda gets you. Yeah, fair enough It does sound off the cuff like if it sounds like it was written in the moment, okay. I got a new one. percent stuff he's recorded one cage, and it's and it's written on fly. Nice that's good to know. Okay, here's a new one. You have a song on a compilation from a buddy of mine. Jona who has the weird rap. being and you have a song called Boil My skull on there and I want to set it up for the listener a little bit, and maybe I'll edit in snip. Snip it if I'm not feeling lazy on Wednesday but. This song for people who haven't heard it before, and you guys should go check out the weird rap compilation. does not consist of words. It is what I would call post text, or some people might describe as just making noises or scouting How did you end up? Going there and I've always wanted to hear a song like this and I. Just I would love to hear how you got to this. Have the book. And I had a rab actually that I had written spent wrap. It wasn't. It wasn't tight enough, so I took the rabbi left the book Internet freestyle like little like scatting. And we we were playing a back and we were all laughing sold. And then some of the. I don't know just might be the most genius Shit. Might, be, it might be. So. Kind of sat on him for a couple days. What it is what it is. That's Dove I love that okay. I'll take you off the hot seat in having these stories, but I'm obsessed with the beneath the surface compilation I always have been. Did this big story on hymnal and his track on there and I talked to. And I might do a thing on it someday. So maybe I'll reach back out if I ever do like the oral history of beneath the surface, which is on my whiteboard of projects I'm never gonNA rice. Few months ago added scenery. Probably about a decade man. Wow, yeah. I got him to be a very nice guy like a I found out for that him track, and not to get too far into it and I do have a question. I promise that he built the music around the lyrics and I'm always fascinated by win. People do that, but the one I wanted to ask you about is probably one of the weirdest rap songs in history. The farmers market of the beast. You tell the People Kinda. So let let me said would just one more sentence to set it up? Every everyone does their verse from the perspective of different. And I actually can't remember this moment. Who you are in it, you remember. I. Don. fucked up. House, the Walrus actually raptors a bear so. Fair enough. This is why after twenty years listening to it, I can't remember what. Walrus into beginning all my is like bare metal. Shape shifting now. By spanked thanks for the trip down memory road and thanks for all the music and. Fun I think. Somebody's loft and we're this. Once again, just kind of started as a lighthearted idea that manifested in. Discovery Great. Music, you're you're also a visualize. You're also doing a lot of graphic design a. can you talk a little bit about that? Like holding both those perspectives of being a rapper individual artists as well. Yeah, man! We'll routinely ads starting to go to college graphic design in a at first year, college offered it tour. And select quit going to school to do music, but no, I always had that that little base, and then so whenever things get you know. When around behold? On the road a lot and when you that's what I would concentrate on McGrath pretty. The. The first person you like. Printed are shaved. Should shirts a slashes brother? And yet company called Connor. sought. After that I was like hooked. I wanted to make sure it's. Criminal kinds of sheds so. I started like designing. Stickers and champion that project blowed. You know. Just! You know. So Yeah I've always had back. That's always been my teeth things. Graphics and pretty. And music stuff. You know you mentioned a little bit of a project blowed. Can you talk a little bit about sort of just being there you know while everything was popping off and being You know just just being really into it, and being in and gravitating towards it how how did that? How did that? You know pop off over there? And and what was it like being there? The first night of project blowed mighty Zehr. Can! He's got a scout. Who Mike La Challenge or whatever? And I remember. People were super hyped on because. You could cuts like a degree light. We can cuss right. Yeah, you're they mutate bag. You're fucking turning my offer like whatever fish whatever Mooney was in a huge job of battles, but he. Had done blowed is. Um! You cuss in I think he was actually started at somebody's birthday party. Yeah so. cinder every Thursday but I. was there you know I'd say he's seventy some time. Just. Way To interact with people. You don't have the Internet, so you know cats could have battled each other. Days you had to go there and it was slightly scary because nobody US battle. Battle either ended up been. Made new enemy or you got your ass, kids or not? It was some different ship back it. Definitely does. I mean I, think now it's funner an easier for two ticket family somewhere like. You know kind of improper thing, but I think that there was definitely like element. You gotTa have balls to hang out there. well. I'm just to sort of bring it full circle I. Mean we mentioned planet of the shapes earlier? How often do you listen to the recordings that you've made? That are like twenty years old, and if you do like how, how do they sit with you? There's certain sold w proud of there's definitely should. Crane. took. Off the face. Could be more super. Bowl Roger White Shit off! Steam. Flood flying. PROMOS party. It's like a bad flu. You're like I was near Nagara Falls, but. Click that's a great. We look back at your catalog. So a so no, so we're not talking about the overweight Niagara Falls pictures like which ones like which tracks of yours are you most proud of? On definitely proud of out say. Everything done. There's definitely some stuff that I hold close to my heart so I. I don't really have much that I regret. His word. Thank you for that. Music as well. Only demonic. Yes! Some stuff sticks some stuff earlier. I always try to pretend like nobody's paying attention anyway. Don. All that Shit. Overthinking like nobody fucking real. Eighty percent of the time. It's true. stoudt man. We want to thank you for sharing time man. Like, we said we're we're. We're big fans of the work. and yeah just. Keep, doing your thing. Then we appreciate appreciate the time. Had blood coming up. Oh, yeah, sorry, go ahead! Definitely no problem Next month of dropping an EP that's produced by pitching jump and the low. Finished were big. I'm super proud. Man. And his new. I don't know if you've got. A. Topnotch Shit Man Nice. Okay, keep an ear out for that. Though y'all got a name for the project. is called canvas. Okay okay. Pretty Melodic on the ship. That's dope man, all right a wall, one ladies and gentlemen appreciate you man. Thanks for coming on. Guys? Yeah thanks they can. Go. Shit you, thanks Tony. Guy Soon recipes. Thank you. Dad Bod pod. That was our conversation with a woman who sounds like a one. Talks like a wall one A. we're very very fortunate to have him on the program and I was wondering. Was it not? That was Super Fun Super Fun. Lawson so What's going on, guys? This is the end of the program. This is the time for the shameless a plug section of the program Dave. You got any. Big Name Drop Interviews Secretly hate you You know just just kind of continuing few things I've been working on, but I did just sign up to. Work and do some research on on an upcoming Donny hathaway lighter note, project It's GonNa be a big big glorious re issue for everything is everything and so I've been doing a bunch of research for that. It's fucking been great and. AM also working on liner notes for a lobby. See Fray upcoming anthology of. reissue as well and both of those projects. I'm doing research to help. Oliver Wang with it so okay. That's really fun working on that. And there's been a little bit of back and forth regarding some that I've been working towards for the Paris. Review regarding online thoughts, but it looks like that's going to move forward, so I'm really happy with that. I'm going to reconnect with Tariq hopefully sometime this week to fill in some questions and Hopefully, this is going to be the start of more hip hop. History oriented stuff for the Paris review. That's. Dave, thank you so no I'd be afraid. songs to make reference, but in terms of donny. Hathaway was just say I'm a jealous guy. Nice well done love. You guys, thank you. Yeah, man, that's that's so dope on basically will be auditioning a new third member of debt. When Dave Leaves A. Big Time to Perry. To do the the Paris by route pot. So Dad bog rap pod. We drop a new episode every Thursday. You've just episode when Twenty eight one at thank you for investing the time the energy into that you can always find us on all of the majors streaming platforms where you get your podcast. That's apple music. Google play soundcloud, spotify the whole bit. You can connect with the social media at Dead Bod, pod on twitter, and at dead, bought rap on on instagram and speaking of Instagram nate and I are stepping out of our age category, and we are doing an iggy live kind of down every Friday at five o'clock nate. Yes all right father climb wife I watch the. What's the social handles it? We're trying to do like a five to five thirty Friday week capper. Kind of pitch the in promote the current episode. Kinda just fuck around. I'm trying to make it about my record collection. 'cause to all right to if the first one, it was quite a bit about my record collection, because I've been looking for more of an outlet to kind of tell the stories around the records that I've collected over the years and. Some. Some folks stop by last time we could get a couple more common and we're GONNA work dave into it as well. And just Kinda just tell stories than just have. I was looking for a format to be a little bit more free with what we say I. Don't plan on recording these, so we can tell some stories that wouldn't make the Air Dad Bod, unauthorized on I g live. While, we're wrapping here. I have to say Dead Bud, snack pod, getting rave, reviews and people. People are wanting the food content so where I'm I'm thinking about some things I'll be deming. You guys in emailing you guys of things to possibly formalize not been or caramelized. You should say. Sorry I was there. It was like I want everyone to have good reactions like my yard. So we should. We should be thinking about ways. We can make a make a recurring thing, or we'll talk off the air, but it's getting boring for the the listeners, but thanks, everybody It was a pretty good week for us. We have some big news coming up. We're going to announce only yeah, that's. A lot of things are happening behind the scenes. We appreciate all of you. Those of you who? fucked with US early especially, so that's right. Get our rookie card now. Nate, Jalen Blog David Ma damone Carter we are the dead Baader? Be Will.

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The Crooked E: History of Enron as a Trading Company that Put Swagger in Energy

Oil and Gas Startups Podcast

1:14:03 hr | 10 months ago

The Crooked E: History of Enron as a Trading Company that Put Swagger in Energy

"This is margin cau- a podcast that explores the oil markets. We pull the pieces together to talk about. How every cut of the barrel is market and white prices behaved the way they do with your guides. Alex alexander and george perez step for less it was could use a little church enough slide on down to the trip rock and catch reverend clear office. You boys listen to what he's got to say. I don't want to listen to jive ass preacher talking to me about heaven out you get wise. You get church. Hey there everybody all you wildcatters out there we're glad to be back This is margin call after a great holiday season. And hope you guys all had good holiday yourselves between christmas hanukkah new year's in the like and We're just glad to be back for twenty twenty one. Hopefully it'll be a more more fruitful and not so much dumpster fire as we had the past but glad to be back heroes who always it's big george periscopic with my buddy alex. Our happy new year man marking gear. Bud yeah to be back on the air apsara. Same year on in wola. We'll have more more to come without without break In in the near future. And we're just looking forward. Both of us. I'm sure we've talked about how twenty twenty one is looking up for lotteries for both of us georgia the thirty seventh day of december. Thirty seven of twenty twenty doesn't seem to have turned out much different than your in twenty joining one. I'm not calling beginning of twenty twenty one. Maybe until after the election inauguration stuff because we went through some weird stuff but at least that one but yeah there was a meanwhile nazi right were guy was like all googly. Eyed was his twelve thirty one. Twenty is at twelve fifty nine goes that is thirteen. Zero one twenty twenty twenty over one so it's like a thirteen month. Gut got at scribbled in their backyard. Right tacked on out of nowhere. A leap eon throws an extra month in there. Somehow we're not gonna call an end to twenty twenty. I think we should just keep calling twenty twenty until we get the pandemic under control. And you know some normality back. Call me the perpetual optimism. I'm happy to play. Good cops your bad cop. Seattle shakes out in nevada rubbing can't always about the the the hardest Outlook to find in. A person is the contrarian optimist And i think. George are the contrarian optimist so do you know everyone can be contrarian pessimist and a go with the flow optimist or pessimist but These in artist right. Yeah mozambican easy. I happen to be a contrarian used for the sake of being a contrarian some people would say you're a jerk but then latter years i've tried to nuance it. And when when group thinking monolithic saint happens and things are in a phrase that i coined and i still believe that to the day even though it can really stretch extremes in both directions but i really do feel that aside from a supernova that engulfs the earth or in a bowl of pandemic that wipes out ninety nine percent of the population you know something cataclysmic of biblical proportions Things aren't as bad as good as there. Always put out. With the fearmongering the mass hysteria. There's some serious concerns out there. Currently but on balance i think you know time we'll go on humans will persevere and and we'll we'll come out better on the other end so it isn't it. It's it's sure and you look at if you if you stretch your timeframe out. Further appropriately out into the distance. You can't be but optimistic about the future young. Even if all the only guide you have is is the past because technology and evelyn have materially helped you know life on this planet Whereas if you focus on the immediate problems and you focus on everything that's wrong or the next thirty seconds. Which by the way which i kind of believe what social media folk you know kind of forces you to focus on It's hard to be anything but pessimistic right because the human mind was never designed to process every single problem or emergency in the world which is what social media gives you in spades analysis paralysis exactly but the ability to look further out Young yeah big picture longer term. You'll you you'd have to. You'd have to work very hard to be simplistic about it anyway. That's just my point of view. And i agree with you one hundred percent simply because you know it could get worse absolutely can always get worse but the chances that are gets worse from here you know i. It's more probabilistic that the side starts to occur now histories rife with examples where that one the case but if you if you run the the law of large numbers yeah you there And so you know speaking of speaking of things like that. You know today for upset six. We got other crooked. The history of enron big huge trading company about twenty years ago That you know kinda had had ramifications of biblical proportions a almost old testament style. You know rally wasn't right. Yeah flood in pride and then his suing downfall. You know hearkens back to you. Know after this episode man. We might have to get to church jake. He said his right. And and you know we. We've talked about it in our in our sort of like to formally call it you know. But it's not that formal out. Production meeting I've always wanted to take a much more. Nuanced approach to talking about enron because the one thing about enron is there's so much material available just because of the bankruptcy and all the discovery that had to be done for civil lawsuits or the the court cases that that that had to be processed. You can find a ton of information on enron whatever facet of their business that you want to but i want i want to read sort of take this episode and talk about it. More from the perspective of what was the effect of enron on for lack of a better word zeitgeist of of energy trading And what it was like to live in houston in in nineties Leading up into into two thousand when when enron finally collapsed And what it. What they did to the industry as as a company And not not just as a corporate entity but how the evolved the industry. I think that's that's an angle to the story that hasn't been really fully explored And i think it's it has a lot of implications or at least you know a story that you can tell into where we are today as a as an as an energy industry and i wanted to kind of focus on that and tartar at if the audience will be happy. Enough to indulge on that. Because that's that's an angled that has that has not really been covered. There's a there's a movie about enron. There's a book called room. I likewise tied titled movie but that was really around the the final collapse on the unwinding of of the business. How the business came apart at the seams But you have to think about the years prior to that and what that really meant and how that company you're really changed the way at least in taxes You know there are a lot of benefits that we take for granted today. That came really out of the out of enron's relentless pursuit to not only modernize but evolve the energy markets from what they were before to what they are today. That's absolutely something. I want to get into today with you. Because i know you had such a visceral experienced Almost having been in the belly of the beast With with different entities on the proverbial trading street that tried to emulate a lot of what they did in also some of the shenanigans that were done in the industry there. But i mean. I'm gonna echo your sentiments simply because going back to rockefeller you know how he was kind of lampooned is this bloodsucking urchin. That was just you know a parasite on society in a convenient boogeyman of for you know for political reasons and we kind of we teased back the curtain and saw it on balance a lot of the things. He did with optimization efficiency at not wandering resources even though his his his compunction his motivation was profitability. You know on balance was good so along those lines. You know you talked about me. Is the optimistic contrarian. You know i'm a houston and you have been for quite some time. And i knew people who were hurt and so It's it's a real thing a lot of the the nefarious things that they did were responsible for but it's also cheap easy to just pile on right alex. So we're not gonna do that today. We're gonna call us. Call the line as we see it. And we're gonna ferris and kind of you know not so above board things were done. We're gonna we're gonna call it out and talk about how bad that is in market confidence in conveying things. You know governor lost his. You know. I don't care about your political ideology And whether or not i ascribe to the beliefs of a certain but a governor being ousted of for the sake because it was you know power. Outages were laid at his feet as being responsible. When you find out your california right. Yeah lost his job or the right. I mean there were a lot of qb kind of funny. It was the ascension of arnold schwarzenegger political being but p wilson loss job primarily. There are a lot of reasons had content for him As a governor. But y'all what enron did manipulating the markets in north carolina in northern california Was almost the last straw. That comes back there. And we're going to speak to that and we're obviously gonna gonna call it out but you know we're going to have a much more nuanced approach. United talked about this about being fair and they did a lot of good at least of the seeds that they showed death. Are you know for of which we are reaping the benefits today. It could be argued that had they still been in business and not done some of the shady dealings that you know. We would've felt realized lot of a lot sooner. That's up for speculation. Because i'm sure a lot of the people who who were responsible for for pulling pushing these These different you know ventures across the lines of finish line so to speak probably got their start or i know some for fact got their start sitting. Sit on the trade floor or in the board rooms of enron essentially thinking this shit up so so yeah i mean. Let's let's of go back in and just set the stage. Alex you know. Talk to me. Because i'm a little bit of a neophyte. Here now i had friends who dropped out of college while i was in college in got jobs on a trade desk almost a part time internship job and eventually the money was so good so i had that kind of proximal experience and then obviously the stuff that you've read and then now that we've had trading backgrounds brokering energy backgrounds. We've heard about things about the big. The big guys who ultimately went on to have billion dollar hedge funds gas hedge funds like john. Arnold got their start there but alicia set the stage. You know almost like a a mid twenties. Alex who just moved to houston From i think right and so yes well. Actually i was yeah. I had done my master's here at you've h and then was hired by coco working treasury back and then wrote they rotated me back to houston to work at minute maid. Who still here in houston. Yeah and so. We're we're the timeframe we're talking about here is early to mid nineties An and then the run up to two thousand two thousand one which was when when enron finally came apart of the seams and really Saw all it's it's kinda hard. Incoming compass the whole story. But i'll put a couple of statements out there. Enron went under not because they were not a good trading company. They were actually a phenomenal trading of me they went under house of they leverage their balance sheet In a manner to high debt using their stock as collateral and that all came apart. Okay michelle companies. Could only bay run so many times own offloading the debt to show good balance sheet crab before the rooster came back to crow roosts so to speak so right and you talk about all special financing vehicles. All of that you know they were there there. Bankruptcy was the was the primaries. Y'all instigator for the dodd frank regulations around morning Sorry sarbanes oxley. Sorry yes our veins oxy. Sorry not franks socks. Which which which forced company executives and officers accompanied to be personally liable for the reports that they signed off on But in coming back to who they were enron really was a company that was never. I mean culturally. It started off as an asset company started off as a pipeline company primarily in the gas the natural gas Part of the of the of the energy business But was was was culturally accompanied. That was never asked. Never afraid to ask the question. Why and look at solving a problem through a different lens Part and parcel of their dna on why they were successful now. There were a couple of things that we go back. And you talk about your principles. They're jeff skilling and ken lay. And you know. I'll put andrew andrew fastow aside because fast to me was ultimately the guy that sort of finance the company to unorthodox means and ultimately led it to being a house of cards. But when you think about first-quarter three sixty three which was the beginning of the deregulation of the natural gas market in the united states which unbundled gas supply from gas transportation. Which back in the day. When i'm sort of setting this up for georgian. Feel free to ask me questions but back in the day you'll gas. Applying guess transportation was considered one. Business right you could not supply gas Without transportation or everybody's barrel in an aninat regulated market had the same letterhead so to speak correct correct. And if you go back. And and i have friends who worked dynegy back in the day in in the eighties. Where when they went to your the way. The gas market worked an inner regulated world. Is we went to schedule. Your pipeline literally at dynegy. They would sit in front of a big whiteboard and they would map out all the schedules for the following month. And that was it. You know you got your supply. It was it was scheduled on the pipeline. It was it was. It was scheduled to the city gate to where it was delivered from an. That's it there was there was nothing else that you could do in that market or three sixty three essentially. Unbundle them arkansas. You could be transport you could be supplied but you don't have to be both and essentially what it did was deregulated the market to where It developed a spot market and price discovery around natural gas for you not only for the big liquid locations but for city gate locations and then the ability to be able to trade gas for a day ahead balance of the month. Bell was was henry hub and an active contract him was inactive contract. Right it was attracting louisiana young. You know like we talked about back in the foyer arm for a wildcat listeners of alex henry hub is the equivalent of cushing metro. Gas right were nymex contract for natural gas in what billion cubic feet or m b. Cf Settles much like a contract for west texas intermediate Of thousand barrels for one contract settles is delivered or or you know sold of taken possession of in cushing oklahoma so wanted to hannah. Make sure you know 'cause there were not just you know jumping ahead we're talk. We're we're talking a little different now. We've been very gasoline. Refined products and crude oil centric and still energy but Gas natural gas power. So you had yeah and and and then again like we were talking about you know a cushing oklahoma being As as a benchmark price for henry ob but the real action is down at the city gates when you gas to baltimore or to chicago To deliver gas into that gets gets sold to the local. Utility that distributes sagacity industrial residential uses. But there is a price at the city gate. When you've unbundled supply now you allow price to sort of to flow summary and now is also set by bureaucrats just just arbitrarily set to where everybody's bill almost looked the same in the sense that they're rate which wasn't discovered via market. Yeah those sent to you and you're you're a homeowner or living in an apartment and you're just a price taker. You need lights. You need heating You need cooking On hot water. So you're gonna pay what the what this you know this. Inefficient markets setup dictated. And like you said that furka ruling that they Three sixty three that they heavily lobbied was very instrumental in. Ken lay knew how to work. Washington you knew how to work the he had deep ties to y'all to the bush family At that time we were talking about you know H w and then subsequently w and the ability to enable that deregulation by by sort of being able to articulate very clearly the the the benefits of letting market supply bent determined prices and in the long run. The prices should come down and reflect. Y'all sort of the capacity and the demand at a particular location announcement. This you and i are complete agreement and most free market guys and and just energy individuals in general would. This was a net positive. This was a good thing lutely mean and it just has to be said because this is this is part and parcel of saying that you know we're going to get to some really some really shady shit and we're gonna call it out but this was a good thing and and and we are. We are not to trivialize the loss. The wealth loss from folks. That happened twenty years ago. That's that's painful and people At the top there serve time But you know this was an act good thing of which we are still reaping the benefits the ability for me to go out and shop my rate and i wanna lock it in. I mean i can take. I've had a natural trading for clarity. Since i was a kid and you probably too. But there's people out there just like prices are low or lowest. They've been in years because we've just been in a ten year you know doldrums. Price action wise. I wouldn't mind lock in my stuff at five for five years or thirty six months and you have the ability to do that. as as an individual that's powerful and they were directly responsible. So that needs to be said because the other stuff is also going to be said and the good doesn't trivialize or or wipe out the bad but the good needs to be recognized for what it is. Yep absolutely and will probably touch on this. But the bad was really stemming from a culture aspect of enron But we'll get into. That does second but today you talk about texas. Texas is a completely deregulated market for electric. So part of your three sixty three in the deregulation of the gas market. And then you had sort of y'all the the shift in the stack production of electricity going from your baseload going from coal to natural gasp fired turbans And and the ability to now price your your natural gas on a more real time basis combined day ahead week add Balance of the months ahead and operate those those units with much more efficiency than i would. Let's say baseload on coal or from Nuclear or whatever the other traditional baseload coal is traded on a quarter basis prices for three months as opposed to natural gas where you have to the next day so you can set up the whole stack of baseload and then you have a intermittent supply and picking capacity that i can turn on and off from Because it's gas-fired y'all it's literally a flip of a switch. These are all structural things that happened. Saint time with natural gas route Deregulation that on given their entrepreneurial background absolutely were able to take advantage of and and truly discover price Truly sort of financials and monetize You know the price of power and the interlink. The spark spread the interlinked between gas and electricity down to the location. So i could trade the basis of y'all y'all z. Three to m five so meaning transposed three gas prices to m five. Which was your naipaul electricity. So i could really yo really decide whether i'm gonna supply into new york city or baltimore. Washington d c based on what fuel prices were and based on what electricity demand was at that point in time That level of sophistication and today her ex. You were saying hard. Choose dot org. United as retail customers can go in and look at all these power providers you'll some of whom are actual generators and some of whom are wholesalers who buy from generators and resell and pick the power price the power clan that we want twelve months six months twelve months thirty six months fixed-price variable price Pure a hundred percent Hydrocarbon generated electricity versus green christophe. You'll slow win part electric city. We have choices. I mean i just did it. Two months ago where i was using Reliant energy and then. I switched to spark because they were able to give me your guaranteed eight point. One cents a kilowatt hour all in with all my fees in One hour ago. Yeah i do about. You're gonna eighty yeah. I don't think i didn't that well. But i might have done it for three years. But yeah i mean all the all these things you know were immensely positive and but it also hearkens back to one of these teams that we talked about in the in the in the cast of characters that we've we've been through a past few episodes or since the beginning of of talking about these novel paradigm shatters shifter's of seeking value where it otherwise wasn't perceived whether it's john d. Rockefeller optimizing logistics in economies of scale in an effort to penny pinch literally pennies a barrel but a million barrels a day added up especially the eighteen hundreds to you. Know the moneyball folks That we talked about with with the trading groups that you know essentially the trading head. Honchos are bst's it came from the financial trading world and then took it into sports in athletics in data analytics. These guys were were cut very much in that same out of that. Same cloth where they were like. This is clunky pricing coal prices three months at a time and then of course. No wonder your prices. Don't move or there israel. No price discovery As far as my power bill months two months yet be because there's a little bit of a chicken and the egg. There's no need to when the pricing mechanisms for what feeds it. A are so antiquated in clunky. To begin with all right. that's exactly right. And there's no concern for demand right because demand for power is generated by whether it's delivered by season right and it's the same thing that The oil industry just went through through the pandemic where everyone assumed that. Oh well demands going to grow at one percent or two percent of gdp every year guaranteed and march came around and the pandemic said here. You go here's thirty percent caught on your demand overnight right And that's always been sort of my frustration with liquid side of the business is the fact that they've never been forced to be as dynamic as the gas and power side of the business because the gas bars side of the business transitioned to dare had our ahead optimization and trading years ago decades ago because they had to write an enron was the primary catalyst behind that you had a little bit of demand inelasticity right. We don't have any other ways of powering cars At least you know but but you learn natural. Gas came was was a force to be reckoned with in and was almost was a better fit in a lot of ways and the mechanisms for pricing. It hadn't been Really elucidated at save for like you know the the one big contract of henry hub I've heard Things that enron folks tried to actually get those delivery. Specifications changed because that in of itself was inefficient insofar as they saw it. But on top of all of that you know just think about the fact that the waste that probably transpired that never hear about because power is storable right right so you know. Think about power. That's very important. And when power on prices peak in spike people pay for it in our people everyday people who get hurt where it counts but then the ability to to store it Is is not really there for power so so the ability to have really transient market discovery. Day to day minute to minute. There's what whereas in crude oil schedules pipelines. Once a month refined products schedules once every five. Six days gas schedules. four times. a day. I would i would echo. Yeah i just think about how much more efficient in fluid those markets are so. Think about you know if power. You can't store trinity at least not efficiently right now but but you think about your natural gas is being your proxy to store power. Right if it's your fuel going into a plant and then the ability to to model a plant as a binomial option where you're buying gas and you're selling electricity or y'all we did some pretty exotics when we were back at duke energy where we would you know By yata plant that could could could run oil or coal or natural gas. So you're looking at three different feedstocks and one one output And then you know. The whole notion of weather. Derivatives and heating degree days and cooling degree days these are all markets that came out of the deregulation of natural gas and the deregulation of the power markets are caught being one of the one of the examples of of of a of a regional power market or being the texas electricity distribution grid So you had all that going on and it really required sort of financial and risk acumen that accompany that enron like really Because they were there from sort of the inception Excel that and that's why they were so massively profitable because they were having two or three helpings of the turkey before the rest of the industry even figured out that dinner was on. Why do you think that is. I mean you spoke a little bit of our culture but talk about. Let's talk about the talent that they it was culture. It was attitude name to go back to the nineties. And if you lived here in houston in the ninety s it was radically different place. It was thought about your some of the most. Y'know progressive and and an evolutionary Trading energy trading companies were all based here in houston in the world right between enron dynegy and an el paso and duke and coral which was a a. Jv between a shell in and someone else These were companies that were forcing the rest of the industry to sort of run at the same pace as as they were and because the the industry was new it was so immensely profitable and they were making money It attracted it was a talent magnet. They were bringing people in from all around the country and the world coming in to work at these these these companies these trading companies work on power and gas trading and and having lived here in the nineties editor. George you away at college but the whole downtown renaissance in houston was primarily driven. By the fact that you had a class of folks young people extremely bright fresh out of college remaining couple years experience working these energy trading companies living in downtown the whole nightlife scene. The bars the renaissance of downtown. How the nightlife. You've seen sort of shifted from westheimer richmond. Which were it was there for years to downtown The building of reliant energy stadium The movement near the move of of the basketball arena from from Greenway plaza to downtown all had to do with the fact that you had a ton of you know sort of energy and vibe in downtown that was driven by companies. That were there will. There were working hard. They're working late. They were doing deals they were they were they were. They were literally changing. The industry Day by day to silicon valley of trading and and that was the other thing right. I mean these energy. Cummings enron enron online. Y-yo are real time markets for gas and power. Not just in north america but when they launched that platform where enron stood behind said we will make a market we will be the bid in the ask for gas and power primarily not just in the us but in canada but in a oh but in in south america. Australia your within six months. They were trading gas and power on their online platform. Clearing in your. I think they were doing twenty six countries and back then twenty or thirty different currencies. There were clear this was technology that they were pushing out that rivaled anything that silken valley was doing at that point in time and so not only. Was it the traditional finance talent. The trading risk vanished intel. But you had technology talent here in the in in houston day And it's it's it brought so much luster to the city of houston as the energy capital and always held onto that title. But i think one of the things that really happened. When enron folded and went under and what happened was enron's business got fragmented and was bought up by the big banks were trading the business because it was such they had entered the business of such a profitable business you had sort of the business disperse from houston to new york in stamford connecticut chicago and places like that houston ceased to be an epicenter For for that talent magnet. But i think what you sort of had was the energy industry sort of go into doldrums with adults without sort of the the constant evolution and push and push that can from companies. Yeah and that's really swagger yet swagger houston had such swagger back then right because it was the place to be if you wanted to be In energy is still is but now more from an engineering perspective than from a commercial perspective. But it certainly was Was the place to be and it certainly put a swagger in energy and you think about you know they they had they developed an acumen for risk management that they started to branch out and look at other sort of areas so they started writing insurance on your crop insurance. 'cause they believed that they could model risk better than most companies could most traditional insurance companies. Could there were modeling whether risk there were modeling. Supplier is disrupted risk in real time energy markets Know they actually started. Doing you know they had a pilot program with blockbuster around they were proponents for broadband trading because they viewed broadband as they as they highly elastic demand. Type of commodity that was heavily used during the day but kind of followed the sort of the demand shape of power. You peach during the day in the morning then doldrums in the middle of the night. When people went to sleep and not a lot of electric city was being generated. The debuted broadband dissimilar way. India deal with with Blockbuster to see how they could stream movies right. This was a precursor to netflix. And may twenty twenty one years ago or so right before netflix's became. Who were there was a netflix. Never sits at to deal with the delivery mechanism because barbara game ubiquitous at that point in time but enron and already figured out how to price broadband based on demand patterns that sort of mirrored people's daily routine and activity Which is what. Electricity demand followed So they were doing stuff that you could argue that it was way beyond its time because the technology of which remained the. Tv's even you know you didn't have internet tv and cord cutting you know you gotta have smart. Tv's to run apps for panels of hbo or this or that. So i mean clearly that was actually all the things that i read and of of the online platform trading platform. Where they did cross. You know something that was so localized or used to be as power and then taking it. Globally and then also being able to offset currency risk because it was traded in various currencies. You definitely you know owing to the title of that book. Smartest guys in the room had to have that kind of dynamic to even envision that little alone executed of which they did for a time and it can. It can be argued that that was kind of the pandora's box because of their hubris in that they were so good that they thought you know possible they could get away with with some things that weren't necessarily above board and i think look at the end of the day may not yell in may not Win me a lot of fans out there. But i'm i'm just gonna put it out there. I think jeff skilling was a visionary from that perspective. I think where where he he didn't You know where his blind spot was And remember jeff was mackenzie guy right. That came in and so impressed. Ken lay that. Ken lay hired him into enron and he he truly sort of set at a right The the trajectory of the company made quite interesting enough. You know Rumor has it. i mean it. There was a clash of ideas between Jeff who believed that asset light you could financial is the market not have to own the the fundamental production asser transportation asset to to be heavily involved in that market. I clashed with a gentleman by the name of rich kinder- who believe the opposite right and kinder- laughed enron and went on to found in america. Right which is the biggest one of the largest pipeline in term operators and an intruder fashion. Y'all can rich. Kinder- became a billionaire by owning the assets that the actual physical assets used for the the the the transportation storage of of energy commodities. Because he believed otherwise right. You can't divorce yourself from the physical asset But i think in in in the you're looking today. Would enron been. You would have enron have done sort of a deal. With tesla with they have been on the forefront of vs probably so because of their deep expertise and in the power markets right they would have they would have figured out how to be part of that sort of I dunno structural sort of shift in in or transition in in in vehicle transportation army. It were they weren't is what. Why is it a stretch to think if they could bring in technology folks for an online trading platform that was unheard of until you know this. The screen started coming began reality about a wide. Why couldn't they import battery. Technologists does this is all speculative here. It's right but but like yeah. These guys were definitely forward thinkers ahead of their time. And you can you can probabilistically say that you know had had things not gone so badly for them of which were Responsible for you know a lot of it of that they would still be the vanguard front runners of a lot of technological developments and then and then that in if they were in a deal with blockbuster netflix's finally started coming online. What ten years ago or so probably a little bit before that. I mean who seems why is it. Unheard of that you know. Maybe that was ten years delayed than it could. Well remember. netflix offered to Ideal to blockbuster right or blockbuster had the opportunity to buy. Netflix and walked away from Walked away from it and much to their chagrin rate was away from kodak's we right kodak kodak said hey we're filled food or you go to digital camera film writer film and and then it's then it's adapter die in entities and entities. Do so. yeah coming back to the on. Where do i think blindspot was so american. American claim to put words into jeff's jeff skilling's mouth here. But you know Skilling came from mckinsey right and and the consulting firms are very notorious for having sort of this meritocracy where you stack and rank your employees on an annual basis and the bottom ten percent get caught right. They yet counseled out which is a consulting firm. Meaning you're not meeting the cup in your out and the top ten percent yo. Move on and get promoted and and that was sort of a system off stacking and ranking and performance evaluation and and promotion management that was ruthlessly enforced at enron And what happens and this is my issue with this and always have an issue with us. In an spent time in consulting companies is sometimes good ideas. Take more than a year to come to fruition. But when you put a very very harsh sort of y'all cap and and deadline or or led light on performance saying y'all if you were not in the top rated pureed top for ten percent or bottom a viewer. In the bottom ten percent you have radically different companies. What actually happens. Is you foster a culture of literally survivor. World where you have cliques. That that that will form where they protect each other. And then seek to find Sort of weaklings and forced them into the top ten percent and the protected class stay in or sort of forced the weaklings the bottom ten percent or or or prejudice them into the bottom ten percent and then the protected class stays in the top percent. Ten percent permanently that type of incentive structure sort of leads to the type of behavior that starts to prioritize short-term game gain over long-term vision right and this is where i sort of say. Okay there was this innovation quotient and the stimulus that went out of the energy industry when enron went under and we went back to being sort of an engineering lead market. And your one hundred dollar oil and a lot of pe- money and fat and happy and then all of a sudden covid exposed the weaknesses in in in traditional energy but the good thing about the companies that are run more from an engineering perspective. Is there the patients to take on your. I am going to put in ellen g yo look purfication facility and it's going to take twenty years for me to get my are y but i'm going to invest in it. That goes out the window when you come to the sort of talk crecy Where you just chasing the buck and we have a very hard charging trading mentality behind you set up the sort of the scenario that leads to your special purpose financing vehicles off balaji. And that's that's what a that's that's that's one thing. I was gradualistic stroke by stroke. Progression is the incentive. Now like you said to just taste the buck near term. Just to get your tally points. So when cut in time comes you're not on the block and an and does that evolves serious question here just kind of thinking through philosophically outside looking in alex in you've have you have some some rumored stories that you've heard of of just of the of just the the shenanigans that went on little own trading Nefarious trading practices. But you know when when someone. Somebody's in a protected class but still under the gun. I mean they're looking to arbitrage regulations and essentially play in grey areas and then gradualistic You know if they're not getting sapped of because it regulators not sitting there looking over their shoulder or are there playing in a space that regulators have never even thought of But now they're even if it's morally ethically eventually well into illegal territory. But the money's good and nobody's saying anything so yeah and you're being edited and celebrated for. Yeah for sure. And at what ethical costs right now and essentially could argue that. That's what That's what did enron. but it was. It was a wild west west culture. I mean i worked in in gas trading in the nineties and early two thousands. And i'll tell you that. Risk management was nowhere. Close to where it was where it is today from a formalized structure and where traders would do book tenure deals and get to mark the curve. For what what that ten year deal would look like and then would get paid. Bonus based on the mark to market on a ten year deal as opposed to the actual realized revenue. Which were tight would be nowhere close to an. Let's let's pause for a second. Explain to our our our guys out there who are interested in this alex and why that is just almost laughingly hilarious to a modern day or even a person such as yourself who is there and realize real time the nefarious or not. Say that because it wasn't illegal so let's talk about mark to market. What how that got approved and that's kind of open the pandora's box for them to do a lot of the shnians but let's also talk about a traitor marking their own. Kurtz laino if i if i buy a strip of. Let's just say crude oil. And and i. I wanna buy you know. Fifth forty five dollars. Fifty bucks trading on the board and i just want to buy it a little bit on financial contract for every month but i want to do it for two years into the future will obviously every barrel because of tango and backwardation. Things that we've talked about in the past Aren't gonna make it. So there's gonna be a strip and i'll own you know thousand barrels a month for the next twenty four months to calendar years At a set price. But now you have this thing. Where the exchange which people buying and selling trading that strip or those that series of months that i just bought in this hypothetical example. Now you have an exchange setting the price and then your market and profitability. Upper down as dictated on what you bought it at and what it's trading at day to day in the thought processes if you bought it and you wanted to lock it in you know two years from now it's going to be worth more than what you bought it for two years prior now. Let's let's contrast that with every day. I'm lily on the at the mercy of the market and the the curve that for those twenty four month prices that are averaged together and get that price day to day in goes against where i bought it at. Let's about what the traders got to do in the enron scenario. That really did happen in real time. Right so dead. What you talked about as i am going to do a foreign deal. Sam going to supply gas to a tool to local utility your local distribution company in ill or even in in crude oil. You're gonna lie. Crude oil refiner. Alex in your produce to sell you crude oil and you american agree on a price right own. I'm gonna. I'm going to sell you the next five years. Let's say an honor refiner. So all i care about is just keeping my refinery wet. His i'm going to sell you a ford strip on meaning. Linda deliver crude oil certain Barrels every month for the next. Let's say forty eight months average price of forty five dollars done okay. You're the refiner. I'm gonna buy now. I have now the obligation to deliver forty five old. The customer's going to buy crude oil at forty five dollars every month style have an obligation to deliver that every month. Going up next forty eight months. Now let's say it's enrichment california not cushing oklahoma rights or richmond california. Someone has to say okay. What is that strip. Forty eight months of delivery of crude oil. What is that worth every month to. You and someone has to project out a price of forward curve for every month for the next forty eight months now timothy. What you'd want to have is an independent organization. Typically the risk control organization comes up with a forward curve that they mark your forty five dollars off against so if they market your forty-five obligation at forty dollars. Forty eight month average price going to be forty dollars. You are five dollars out of the money you'll under the market For for ten thousand barrels a day time and forty eight times thirty days a month right. Yeah right so a lot of money. Lots of money so back in the day before you had standardized risk controlling it software to manage this typically. What happens the trader. Set what the price was. So i would set that as fifty dollars. Meaning your mark to market marking this deal to what the market price says. It should be which is a proxy for me to say. Hey if i had to get out of this deal if i had to liquidate the steel today on current market prices water. Would it be worth to me right now. Is if i was a traitor. I did to deal at forty five bucks. I would be highly incentivized to mark that curve at fifty bucks or fifty five bucks always show it in the money especially if my bonus at the end of the year would simply looking at what is the mark to market value of all your deals in your book and then you get paid. percentage of that your now highly motivated to make that curve. Look as much money as possible than it actually is now. They've taken that away from traders and say you can. You can do all the deals you want. But we as risk control are going to. We're going to set the curve and we're gonna we're gonna hold you accountable for whether you're you're making money on the deal you're losing money. A deal and risk control is. If you're losing money on a deal they can come in and liquidate the position and unwinded. Because you are you are so negative on the deal that it is truly. Don't want to leave the game more now but when a trader marx's on mark is on curves yo he's perversely incentivize here she khalil. Possible because it's tied to your to your bonus and there was a lot of that in the nineties before we got really Somewhat sophisticated on on on on segregating control over what was official price curve versus what the trader said it was And so there was incentive to sort of inflate the forward market. So that the deals. I have on the book. Look good or deflate the forward market selling into that market and and make sure that your shorten them and make sure that my book look good and there's a lot of moral hazard associated with that which you know full knowledge ready look like money. That's not in the door right. Because i'm having you haven't flattened out of that strip so you delivered the barrels for the barrels. You haven't gotten out of that strip. Bought the strip to hedge because in the event that you agree to sell it to a refiner for forty five dollars in the market. Goes up ten dollars a barrel ten months in the future. Now you're buying fifty five dollars crude but can only contractually sell it for forty five year losing ten so you go out on paper markets and you buy that strip for forty eight months in the future but that what's what especially you know crazy to me is is how that contract hasn't come to its conclusion yet but i'm getting bonus probably for for all forty eight miles yet the end of the year so i haven't sold a barrel realized the prophet in its i am literally marketing against the forty five dollar Buy or sell against a price that i just got to set up an as and as long as the price of is positive times however many barrels. I did the deal four. I'll get a bonus check at the end of the year million radii hasn't been collected. So that is what. I wanted to hit home. That was just so mind boggling of of how it was done because even me as a college kid off the street. I'd have been like you can do that. It's trading real time power and the answer was yes she could but the reason you could wasn't a good one and it actually ended up being a bad one in the end. Yeah because at the end of the day when you actually delivered the gas or the crude when other invoices is like oh we want delivering your. We wanna buying sixty dollars crude and delivering at forty five dollars for this right. You're fifteen dollars out of the money is what the guy got you know that i got paid his bonus you know years ago and probably not even at the firm anymore and coming i remember we had when i was when i was at the merchant trading arm natural gas i had job of unwinding a book where we don long-term deals in canadian gas in in western canada at four dollars right we had sold forward four dollar gas in a market that was trading twelve dollars right so we were buying you know we had the obligation to deliver four dollar gas Where we had to buy the asa twelve dollars to deliver a fourth and the guy who did that deal. This was a whole bunch of deals. That word sort of lumped into a book and was given to me to unwind was long gone and without and i remember a drive into the garage at at the trading for mars. The first two floors is nuts by ferraris and lamborghinis right and there were some tony legitimate traders that actually made really good money and time on the likes of goldman sachs on on on the other side of of trades by by getting the market right but there was a lot of fluff involved in the market. Now we lot of those problems have been solved with much more rigorous risk control today than was in the nineties. But you can think about a market your day had power market in northern california where enron could literally switch off a power plants. Yeah cause a shortage in northern california and then cycle power in from nevada from other power plants and sell it at a massive profit by causing the the the the price increase themselves. That's where in and that's where the doing right that's ultimately. what cost. Pete wilson his job as the governor of california. In that. there's there's there's recordings of rent taking place where i mean. This is where the line was clearly crossed and and and and definitely had ordered illegal. Because there wasn't any rule that said you couldn't do it but it was certainly highly unethical right now. Definitely unethical to the point where you know. Even you could just make up a story. I mean who knows if you if you if you bought a guy a bar tab a plant operator of a month before and then you give them a call from houston. He's up said northern california and on that recording. One of those recordings said. Hey we're seeing sensing demand kinda low in that area. Maybe curt like that guy. That kid operating the plant even knows it's like can you just flip a switch for me. Yes sure buddy no problem. I'm paraphrasing conversation here. But you hit that idea power not being storable like we alluded to earlier in the in in our in our podcast that that now all of a sudden there's just a snap in demand for power because there's just none trickling out of the local plant and like you said pipe in from a different market altogether instantaneously in donate an awfully to that grid and capture a massive spike. Yep now you can. You can force that situation in this case but the The the real profit and gas and power trading is. That situation will happen. Naturally you have a cold snap. You have a big Generation facility that goes down for unplanned maintenance and it causes an artificial shortage and early guy right and if you're the guy with spot power you can turn on peaking unit and and deliver power into that market. I mean you're talking literally your the the wholesale market going from ten or fifteen dollars a kilowatt hour to two thousand dollars. Kilowatt hour in in the span of like minutes right. Nassif amounts lesser amount of prophet right. Because you you're their requirements you have to have a certain amount of baseload in the distribution system called spinning reserve. Because you can't just turn it on and off the has to be a certain amount of baseload just to get the the grid to operate normally trickling out for sure. So and then the arbitrage back to to natural gas which is the fuel You know there there were so we call the widow makers right z. Three to m m m six or forget. What was the that interconnect z. Three to Tenneco gas to 'em six or employ for awhile and and you had that arbitrage it was called the widowmaker because that was the one spread. You didn't want to be short in the winter in new york city. Because if one of conrad's major your base load plants went out and you were short that you you're you would short selling you know To deliver fifteen dollars m kilowatt hour power in a two thousand or five thousand dollar market right. that's that would put you under in a second Not to mention the gas price would spike at that city gate as well. So so a look. These are things that sort of work themselves over time through your sort of regulatory y'all And process control but the point was was such a wild west. There was so much money to be made And you had firms that were very aggressive and and had these incentive models that that that absolutely in these models than incentivized making money today over. You're making money over time It was a it was a different sort of era that we lived in in houston in the nineties. It was the equivalent of the golden age Think and and and you know we. We haven't quite gone back to that yet We've gone back to more of a state production type Energy model as opposed to a commercial type of market by a houston in the nineteen nineties was something to behold behold into and and it was the envy every. You're not only was it. Duke dynegy enron el paso guess pro trading firms. But you had. Every bank had a trading firm office in this town even even some of the big german utilities. Rwe had a trading floor in houston just so that they could understand how a deregulated market worked and take that learning back to germany and use that in their local markets. Right they were they were. They were so desperate for the talent that was here in houston and that to me is just. It's sort of something that we've missed. And it's it's something that sort of i think is sort of put know the the the the risk appetite technology innovation in sort of a dull jerome In in the energy markets and perhaps his sort of you know maybe cost a little bit of a would call it falling back but the the inability to keep pace with the rest of on of technology stalling of sorts. Nine regression right. Yeah and perhaps maybe would have. The energy would have been a lot more better prepared for or am talking about the crude and refined product side for something like a black swan like the like the pandemic if it had more of that attitude as opposed to you know that that enron sort of forced on the discipline that enron focused on the energy markets then than what it had in in march of this year where you're all of a sudden i'm writing off two billion dollars of inventory and your going to market and leveraging my balance sheet to bring in working capital at five and six percent In a in a market where the fed funds is at zero or point and we got negative and the potential for negative price. Yeah negative prices. So it's like. I'm going to have to pay somebody to take supply pay for the cry at inflated amount and there's no arbitrage opportunities available to borrow because you know like in the energy industry is free market is you and i both are. This is a common same time and again with regulators in with government. Government intervention writ large. They're always willing to come in when there's some sort of financial like wall street You know ramification with the people who got hurt in enron stock and. I'm not advocating that. There should have been a bail. How but if long term capital management which essentially just bailed out the banks even there were ripple effects that would have helped or would have hurt credit lending Globally for a time. Sure But you know that doesn't affect people as much as it does banks and there's rush from free market you know. People like greenspan Just champing at the bit to to come in and save the day and yet the energy industry whether it's enron collapsing and shareholders. Getting hurt through through being an being duped being absolutely Not told the complete story of how business was being conducted to negative crude oil prices this past year where a lot of people got hurt because his big. I mean just time and again. It's it's it's getting to a point where i would actually argue that this talent that essentially left in hasn't returned suss losing the swagger has real no incentive to come in because it's it's such a demonize space. Yeah even when bad things happen. There's of the tax dollars that usually come in and save. The day are nowhere to be found. And so there's this dichotomy not skewing duplicity double standard Between energy commodity markets and financial and bond bond markets writ large across the globe. and it's. It's clearly a traitor. A savvy trader. A young up and coming smart kid is like there's no upside here. 'cause if i win they're gonna find a way to make me look bad if i lose off of some b. s. or black swans during a ceo l. Your big boy a you get it up right. Yeah stuck it out so all good stuff man. Good stuff another Another great telling of Of something that will definitely live in infamy as we said and and will be studied For years and then an probably forty or fifty years over. Probably be some sort of rhyming of this scenario in your president. Look i think she vs probably probably heading to something like that sort of local systemic events because we still haven't figured out what the impact is to supply and demand from so sorta from this sorta transition trend that we're on right now And i think they're going to be firms such as sort in the in the mode of enron maybe not quite to the same size That will absolutely take advantage of it and probably blow themselves up in the process right. So i think they there will be rhyming. Events going forward We'll see herreid. Well dutta. That should do it for a code. Six alex good talk man. I really enjoyed the insight of giving me so much more of of of a breadth of understanding of of the stuff that took place on answer. It's a weird stories in it. 'cause it's such a great story though i don't wanna sound like an apologist but i think we lost more with enron going under than than we gained from the punishment that was meted out. You know it. Maybe i can say that with a bit of confidence because you're twenty years passed it But i think it was a it was a. It was a significant loss to the energy industry. I think i think we're still. We're still paying for that today. Castles made sand melton militancy wrenches. Its human henrik's birds. Yeah so amana will probably talk about this morning. This will be echoing in things whether other amman about or we just refer to it when talking about other things as we progress through this journey that we've undertaken and will do into twenty twenty one but you know let's Let's let's talk about Just a little bit. Does a little teaser. You know next week. We're we're gonna we're gonna kind of pivot a little bit guys and and speak to commodities that have ramifications with energy. But it's going to be a little bit of a nuance. Novel concept in in cryptocurrency. I'm looking or to this. Because yeah i i don't know by by by omission or by by on purpose. I have been so ignorant about cryptocurrencies. George you you sort of the opposite. So i really am looking forward to really being educated in. Vc everyone is looking at the headlines today or at least a lot of people Involved in have a mind for markets and seeing young absolute rip that bitcoin's gone through I ain't gonna stop for year. There's gonna be some serious volatility In the in the future a couple in the next couple of years But but the graph even with intermittent pullbacks and consolidating periods and even brief selloffs are going to get readily bought and the chart. The other is a daily weekly or monthly is gonna go from the bottom left to top right of your screen and and knowledge that but it might get so feverish that Actually i don't think it might. I think it absolutely will if history is any rhyme or reason as far as an indicator that It's dental looks like a tulip mania. Graph that you see and framed and certain museums that was actually sketched when graphs were were done with with with with charcoal and paper pencil and paper so Definitely yeah and you know there's not to not to tip our hander talked too much about it And save some for next time but on. There's a good reason why and at the end of the day. It kind of all comes to third party trusted intermediaries that we've banked on and had confidence in To transact business are no longer conveying. That confidence as we saw with the exchanges and then some of the dealings with the banks where they both sides the it to socialize the losses and privatise the gates so people you know are looking for alternatives just like wail. Oil was so prohibitively expensive and not worth it. Any more to deal in Founded a substitute sovereign currencies and third party intermediaries that are trusted by people out in the street or businesses in order to transact business in house money or store money if you will via bank accounts of. That's that's going to be in. the in. the history books looked back on as this. This time was going to be looked at a time of transition because the technology is now there for peer to peer value. Transfer without having a third party in between as being necessary so stuff point everything potential inflection points. This is going to be a big one. So so all that and more in the coming year We're looking forward to it. alan ear. Everyone probably towards the extent that are random Roman calendar makes a difference. But i'm gonna. I'm gonna call it twenty twenty one in you keep holding on twenty twenty seventh day of twenty twenty right. So are we'll see you guys next time Thanks walk alex. Thank you buddy. Same georgia chair.

enron houston dynegy jeff skilling Alex alexander wola netflix p wilson sarbanes oxley andrew andrew fastow alex alex henry henry ob furka george perez Ken lay Alex
Homebrewing and exploring classic beer styles

Beer Guys Radio Craft Beer Podcast

59:20 min | 1 year ago

Homebrewing and exploring classic beer styles

"This episode and every episode. The Beer Guy's radio show is brought to you by ironmonger brewing visit ironmonger at their taproom in Marietta Georgia or online at ironmonger brewing dot com. OPENED UP A tab. Grab a seat and pour a pint. It's time for the beer. Guy's radio show or free beer brewery dedicated to the art science and enjoyment joint of craft beer. We got now here. Are Your host Tim. Dennis and Brian Hewitt welcome to the beer. Guy's radio show broadcasting. Ask Beer Guy's Radio Studios in Marietta Georgia this episode two hundred twelve and we're talking home brewing classic styles in Designing Your Home Brew Recipes. I'm Tim Denison with me. As always as my good friend and Co host. Brian Hewitt hates him. An so homebrew we suffer with home. Brewers right absolutely joining us. We have Michael Syrup. And Ron Mitchell. The home brewers who are known together as rainy day. burry guys thanks for joining US absolutely glad to be here. Thanks for having US guys absolutely and Bryan something. You forgot to mention about these fine gentlemen. They about a recent award that they want. Oh Yeah I got a spot in our two thousand Nineteen Best of Georgia Beers. The best home brewers in the state of Georgia. How could I have forgotten among many other Bruin awards right now we WANNA hang that on the wall? We're going to have to get that to get some guys. Yeah thanks for joining us. We we always love talking homebrew homebrew. We haven't had a chance to homebrew in quite a while. We still like talking following the the news and the science of what's going on we just cracked into one of Your Beers Hair Kentucky. Common Right Right yes. So what's common. It's a pre prohibition Brown Ale basically it was a very heavy A six row malt and corn. Everything else pretty pretty simple. Yeah interesting. It's tasty I like it. So is this. How similar or is this in any away? Similar to the California common is there lager. Yeast worn this ways to regular California Calcuta Australia Com. Okay all right you any other states have a common style other than California Kentucky. I am not aware of either and this was one. Actually they call it the Kentucky common but it was primarily just around the city of Louisville. It was real easily focused. It's always fun to learn that kind of stuff. I think. ALLITERATION MINUS The key California Common Kentucky. Common like Alfa Reta comment doesn't quite as good. Have that Georgia. Georgia would be Georgia common. Brian boy wouldn't need peaches inches. Probably yeah sort of Light Peach L.. Maybe light light tarp piece of mash up a bunch of peaches throw some Houston exactly. That's IT Brian. How's your week man? It was good it was eventful so you know as you know the big game happen game. We know we did little Little celebration little hanging out doing that. It was a good time drinking some Some beers from Casey and some peers from Santa Claus Man. We got some for the for the city's sake seven El Sully but One one of the more interesting things I did was I went in to a super bowl. So up are bowl. And I ate a lot of basically liquid Food Sousa says they call it. Yes so it was it was A. I'm not a big soup guy but I enjoy that event so ordinarily. I don't order soup anywhere I go. I eat my year supply of soup at Orpheus. A super bowl when it comes on. So that's you know I've tried many times to get you to go rock some soup with me rom in or occasionally and get you to do Rahman Fuck Rodney and you'll pass on five with rarely in the mood for that balloon in the mood for it when I'm not asking you to go. I don't know why exactly you feel the need to do that. Ah Yes I'd like to tell you. What some nights? After I've been drinking good I do like to break open some of my Shin Rahman the spicy. Yeah the one that the multi Satchel Chill Rahman you know what's the good Rahman because there's satchels there's like three of them that come with it. Not just the one flavor back. There's three but the super bowl the soup super bowl that you went to Brian Charity event. Yeah they do the to raise funds for the Atlanta Community Food Bank. I believe this second or third year. Don't do you recall Brian. I think it's the second time they they've you've done it but over three years I think I think we went to the first one and that was actually the skier two years ago. Yeah they. They mentioned they've raised over in previous years. They raised over four thousand dollars for the Atlanta community community. foodbank during the event again this time people get cooled trophies for their soup in. It's for a good cause I did all the talking. What did you do this week? Would I do this week Brian so I did. Of course Super Bowl party shirt but also over to hickory brewery. Hadn't been up there for awhile. Got Up there visit them digits. The aren't you know the orange. Ip that they'd blood are also ASA WANNA Georgia's original blur as and I just kind of sat and hung out and talk with Mr Scott had NIN about music and life and beer and all kinds kinds of fun stuff so that I took a kind of easy hung out at one berea a little bit and then Super Bowl party on Sunday night. I did Brian as I promised previously. I'm trying some Non Alcoholic Alcoholic Beers. So Ron Michael. Have you guys tried any non Alcoholic Beers. I can't say that I have had what we tried the low alcohol beer here a little bit but No duals or any of the alcoholic. You know I'm going to back this up at a story one time when I was maybe ten eleven years old. The health food store toll sold a beer. I think it was called Texas select elect that was a non alcoholic beer in me and my buddy they sold us one can of it and we were walking down the street of our subdivision drinking it passing it back and forth between these two ten year. Old Kids kids who got busted All the silver. And he's like what. What are you guys doing? And I got so nervous man. I'm tearing up there. I'm like Oh my God I'm busted by the COPS. The pigs got. I mean I showed him in anyhow he looked at over and he let us go but I was nervous. Say the COPS advisement and you get a beer at ten years old and so but I tried because I have to watch my alcohol for a little while I tried wellbeing bruins victory wheat which is an electrolyte vitamin infused beer. And I'll tell you what I like the taste of it. It's a refreshing. It's light it's crisp. It's very citrusy but I still don't know if it would if it would fit the beer bill for me. I think Shandy was the yeah. Zach had a big shanty aroma to once. He said that I'm right. I I I agree with him and had kind of a shady characteristic to it so Not Bad and you know if you end up in a situation where you can't drink alcohol for whatever reason at least there are some options out there and like I said I enjoyed that. I'm just not sure if it said beer to me that much sure you know. I think it's time for the beers of the week crack. Open a cold wind. It's the truck in tap fear of the week craft beer and food trucks in downtown Woodstock truck and tap dot Com for Ron as always we have lots of good beers to get into. We started. We did a little pre game with bells lighthearted We also have from our frontier. Rainy Day You guys brought a lot of beers to share with us right. Well we we wanted you guys to have and yeah you know. So we have a berliner. We have a berry. Berliner a Ri- a Blonde La Coffee and we have this Kentucky common and there is a coffee nitro stout yes right right and I think some others but those are the ones that I remember. So we've got plenty of drinking today Lenzi Brian. What's happening this week in the news? What's in the news? The beer guys have the scoop time for headlines. All right so we've got some big news from some old familiar beer names to start. Carol Stout is retiring. Enclosing stoute's brewing company. So the Baru was founded back in Nineteen eighty-seven and Adamstown. Pennsylvania and style is a pioneer in the modern craft beer movement. Being around that early early in sending their beer around other people weren't making its back then it had pretty wide distribution and I know we drank it here in Georgia. I don't believe it's still distributed here but we were drinking it here. Fat Dog and smooth operator. I checked into those here. So but speaking of Pioneers Carol Stout it was the first female brew master in the US. After the repeal of prohibition so it's kind of a you know a big big milestone this major news here exactly so explaining why she plans to close the brewery. Carol Stout says we're just not moving enough enough volume to justify the expensive keeping the BURRI open however they're not opposed or not closing the doors to any business opportunities that could keep the stoute's fouts brand alive in the future so still a chance to go on under new ownership. According to brew bound the brewery has is down from from ten thousand barrels at some one point to just two thousand barrels a year in two thousand eighteen. So they're they've lost some big. It's a big hit. Yeah also we have Wisconsin's spreaker brewing. It has been sold to an investor group as that investor group is based in Milwaukee founder. Radnor Randy brecker explains the reason. He sold the thirty five year old. Brewery to this investor group is because it will keep the brewery local the seventy five year old plans to retire but he will maintain a stake in the BURRI as an investor the new owners which have backgrounds and electric's technology analogy real estate and even Miller coors plan to make spreaker quotes the craft beverage icon of America. You know I don't recall hearing about spreaker until the hard and root beer craze a few years ago remember the flash in the pan. That was the hard root beer. Not Your father's came out and all that who who did not your father's because I think that was I think that was coors or PABST or somebody member kind of over apparently Abreu you helping. But they purchase. I guess fairly early or cloudy. We just weren't following hard root beer at the time but yes around that time spreaker one of the reasons that the investors were interested. They have root beers. They've got craft sodas. They've got Celsius. They've been doing this for years. Well established into the alternative beverage Situation because we listen to the beer guy's radio show. We do need to take a break. But we'll be back very soon to talk with rainy day as Brewery Marie owner or taproom manager. Are you looking for ways to enhance your customer experience. While maximizing your revenues craft seller is a mobile solution that helps your brewery drive sales and attract act new customers through online pre-sales for beer releases events and memberships get details now a craft seller dot com mention. Beer guy's radio after sign up and extend your free trial trial to a full thirty days. Remember Crafts Hiller Dot Com C. R. A. F. T. C. E. L. L. R. dot com. Follow the beer guys on facebook twitter and instagram beings. Now factor the beer guy's radio show welcome back to bear guest radio. Show remember all podcasts. Kesse are available on demand so if you missed the broadcast get the podcast beer. Gas Radio is available on all popular podcasting APPS now. Let's get back to some home brewing talk home brewing and classic styles Brian to great things. Yes absolutely Ron Michael. Thanks again for joining us. We appreciate it and You know we're going to start with. I guess yes it could be an easy or difficult question but what. You guys started homeboy. I'm GonNa let Ron take that one. Because he he got us star he got it going. Okay or kids are both the same age. We were both very involved. Involved in their sporting activities and all of that as the younger group was graduating high school. We kind of sat around one day with a handsome you know. What are we gonNA do now? That we're not running out to soccer football and basketball and gymnastics and softball and doing all of this every weekend and then probably a day later. I got a groupon for learn. Abreu crat class over at brewer house. Love that shutdown recent. You know couple years. Rip that was a great play so we went and did the class instead. I think we can do this. And bought that little five dollar Turkey fryer and five gallon pot. When out made a batch of Extract whitten turned out pretty good and we said we really can't do this and we just kind of went from there. I guess about four years ago. Let's say you do still have the family in that but I hear a lot of people say something like with all the Commercial Beers we've got out now heard a lot of people say why should a homebrew. Why should someone with all these great beers? We've got out. Why would someone in one a home for for for me first of all? It's fun Ron and I get to spend the day together. We hang out. There's a social aspect to it. There are great homebrew clubs jobs here in Atlanta. We have several but anywhere you go in this country and you guys know that you're the crapper community is really collegial. Ah Real friendly. And and we have some. Great brewers professional brewers in this town. Who are there to help out the home? Brewers it's it's just a fun. It's it's a fun hobby it's a fun because it's fun man and get beer out of it. Yes exactly get their privileged. Share the pleasure of having made something. And that's something we'll give. You could could give you a buzz potentially and could taste really good and You know it's. It's good that people get into home brewing. Because that's where the future Bruce gots may have to start somewhere. The experimentation -tations starts with these guys. Do you guys remember the first time that you've got a little intoxicated on your own beer the first time. We're which yes. Yes yes source. The worst time for the first time would probably be stories. Well the one the worst. I would probably be me running down the driveway with no clothes on that that that that that sounds. Yeah point the best time I heard from my daughters. I put that picture on social media I had to take. That was a few years ago. We were invited to brew a collaboration of one of our homebrew with with Hickory brewery and kennesaw Georgia and served at conversely party. In this. We were young home buyers at the time the first time we ever served there and it was the first time we'd keg beer so I'm trying to get the the the dispensing right. I'm trying to get the regulator. The regulator said the pressure right and I probably drank a solid gallon myself testing it out so by the ended this event we're just we're just ripped totally unintentional. Because once we got the event going the people running the event were coming to us and saying. Can I get you a beer. So they're getting his burnt Hickory Beers. What's what's their notorious for these big strong beers? We were excited because we were serving our brute people share and it was just the perfect storm. Brian Yeah all of their MC special higher gravity things coming around drinking tons of ours is a great time. Why should people get into it? I see another thing I was looking at it. homebrew talk just because hey it's been awhile since I've if we're GONNA talk about home brewing people ask in. It's a thing amongst homebrew. How many of you drink exclusively own beer? They call it being self sufficient. So there's the opposite extreme some people brew. Because that's all they're gonNA drink the dre making sac- what they want when they want and that's all they drink and there's a surprising number of people who are seventy five eighty percent even one hundred percent nothing but what they brew. I know when we were active. We were in the Woodstock. Malt monkeys HOMEBREW club for awhile. And I can remember going to those and talking about the. You're the well commercial beers that are coming out. The once. People are chasing a lot of those guys had no idea that they they homework they homebrew. They drank their homework and sometimes it was for economic reasons. But sometimes it's just because I like what I make and I like it. I like having it available whenever I want it so I like. It's fun like you said you spend time with your buddies. You hang out you have a good day you get beer little mix of art and science and Voodoo two. You end up with what you get so it's a pretty pretty cool hobby pretty good time. And if if I may just throw one of the things. We do enter a lot of competitions and if you have a competitive nature it's fun it's fun to get recognition for doing good beer. Get all those then you. You can wear all your beer medals like you're a general of brewing brewing. They should convert those instead of the mets. That you hang around your neck into stuff. You could pin on a shirt like bars. Yeah so you could become like you know. Twelve out. Metal General or something like that or Little Lapel Stars Club shirt so they're like military shirts. Let's get your bars your beers so I like that. That'd be fun. It's we're GONNA start a new. Looks like a convention of Banana Republic exactly true. That's it and be looking good guys. We were going to spend some of our time today talking about classic styles and something we've seen lately. There's a a mild resurgence. I think you know and seeing some of these comeback. We've seen for a few years when you're hanging out with a brewer. They're not drinking. They're big crazy. I P as in that you know once they go. Oh through the day a lot of times you hang out with brewers after hours or sipping a pills ner you know they're going from mild. ESPN something like that. We're seeing those styles. Come back. More bars are offering them. We're seeing more canned and offerings. We've got a couple of years here in Atlanta. Now that you know focus on these styles which a few years ago you would have thought I was crazy for that. So what do you think is is the reason with all these are we just seeing the pendulum swing back the other way. I think that's the way Owen said it at the CASCAL. It's you know we went to this crazy. Extreme there's is a beer coming out soon that has been mentioned in thrill list an Forbes and all these a sour made with skills and tricks from Pontoon Bruin so is it the pendulum swinging back from that. Extreme of those kind of my opinion is it. It's a combination of things. It's the fact that we chased the most. I be used for a while. Now then we chase the most doubles triple dry up. crypt quadruple drop. You know the market got saturated and I love those beers. I'm not suggesting we. You shouldn't love. Those bears are awesome. You know the big stoute's in such a I think as as the consumer becomes more educated as more people are into crappier you realize the skill that goes into the simple beer as you mentioned him. You mentioned pills nurse a pills and our taste simple but the fact is if you mess pills are everyone's is going to know out there. There's no place to hide. Pills is kind of a phrase that they use and that's as the WHO as a homebrew. I think that's the way you can really kind of judge yourself. It's nowhere to hide. Can you make a good simple tasting beer that just as easy to drink. I don't think we ever tried her. Hand like pills ner anything we didn't really we did like we have ear to lager but we didn't. We never tried logging. I don't think so are we did a quick lager. We did pick logger so Brian Unit something earlier we were talking about these classic styles coming back and I think thank the coal. We're seeing the hell sloggers. Come around I think you know the stout basic stout where they used to always have all these adjuncts in it. We're seeing more people either. Requesting brewers make and just a basic style. We mentioned. There's a couple Brian that we're not seeing much resurgence. On and at least one of them I kinda would I I. It really kind of missed the the amber slash Red Ale. We don't. I'm not seeing so much of people getting on board with that that train. It's I consider the amber especially be kind of a classic classic style that was around. I was drinking all the time in the late nineties. There are people brewing half violence. But it's not a hot thing. People are going wits if they're going anything wheat or maybe Blonde John. But you don't see half so much anymore. I don't think those are having a resurgence but I think the big thing is right now is the loggers. Big Huge resurgence of loggers is. Let's see you. You know you kill me when you say that Brian was that logger is a very broad thing. Lager is not a lot of style that that is true but I was only accept your explanation. I wanted to say I was thinking I wanted to say pills but I think no. I'm seeing a lot of things that are categorized as lager and they're they're different kinds of loggers. Yes but the overall lager varieties especially in the lighter end. Obviously there are beers logger. That's I'm not talking about the darker heavier ones. But on the lighter the lighter lagers. Yeah I think that's on the flip side of that. We're seeing a lot of ills to see. Yes yes things just described as being a logger. There is a he you do realizes that. Say Logger Light Lager South Southbound Mountains. Logger I still disapprove of it. Is I think what I said was technically accurate and I stand by. Okay well we I need to take a break. We're going to talk more about classic styles and Bruin them in developing your recipes. Right after this. You're listening to the beer guys ratio Have you ever thought about owning your own brewery. But don't know what it takes to get one built. We're storytime construction. And we build breweries. Were Jordan moats experience in hands on contractors when it comes to building new breweries stories anti burns or expanding existing breweries. We offer full build out remodeling and additions as low as consulting and construction management. Give us a call at seven. Seven seven zero seven three three four three four three storytime construction we build burs. Is Your restaurant foreign foreign all jacked up your foundation needs to be protected from heat chemicals and other contaminants at the same time. You WanNa make sure slip resistant. Then you can clean up your messes with soap and water you know who to call. We've manufacturing poured in place for instance. Two thousand two. We've got solutions to fit any facilities needs going to visit our website at rose. Turn attack dot net that's R. E. S. T. E. K.. Dot Net drop US line. And we'll come to you for a free evaluation. Follow the beer guys on facebook twitter and instagram. Well now back to the beer. Guy's radio show welcome back the beer guy's radio show. I want to give a quick shout out to one of our great radio. Affiliates Kfi am six sixty am and ninety seven five FM in Fairbanks Alaska catch beer guy's radio on Kfi. We are every Saturday at midnight. Alaska Standard Time now back to home. Talk Homer Talk Bryan Rennie. Brewery Marietta Georgia good times as we have just consumed your Blonde Ale and we are currently drinking your coffee blunt. Right Kiss Alice little bit about these beers the blonde. This is our first blonde that we brewed. And and it goes back to the idea that it's a simple beer So you've really got to be on your game to get it where you want it. You know the the coffee version is is is something we like we. We liked the idea of coffee to a lighter beer. We love coffee in Dark Beers but it brings something out and frankly ron and I have kids. That are both in their early twenties. He's we have daughters who are in their early twenties and they love coffee beer officers. Yes since Brian does talk about coffee bears much. I'll ask a couple of questions. How do you guys do your coffee? It's cold route so after brewing. Just like you would it. It's basically dry taking the beans. I'm crushing them not grinding. I'm just kind of giving a real real course crush putting them in a Muslim bag so him for twenty four hours pulled out out of the keg. So your your call brewing in in your beer yes not called Bruin coughing and porn it in you put beans in a beer in relatively light beer yoga. It's low upper four wars low fives AB and it really WANNA add more water to it. So I figure why not. Just put the beans right inside the beer beers cold just like water's cold. Just let it go. Sounds Good Brian. Brian Avenue other coffee related courses. I was going to ask you. I know that you said that was a Bologna. Is Coffee in here. Is that kind of the the your coffee of choice. You go with Bali or do you have other types of coffee of played with if I may. There's a local independent coffee place here up on the Marina Square called Beans coffee and I went in there and kind of talk to the people there and they're they're really good about the notes that come out of different coffees and stuff so I I consulted with them. I don't pretend to be an expert on coffee and you know now if I might make a recommendation should I had the coffee shop. Right next to sweetwater they have low FINCO. A blend from the Honduras has got some Nice Blueberry notes and So so I would say a coffee like that in the right beer would be marvelous but I like that blueberry. No it's fun to look at different. Different coffees like terrapin. Did the pack where they had four four. Different coffees in the same style East Berry Flavor. It's going to have to be a cream or a blonde or so I think in a stout at Barry's going to get. You might lose it. Yeah well it doesn't and get buried in a coffee so you know it may still. It may still shine through there depending on the the depth of your stout there right at the depth of your taste buds. True good stuff. I've super taster. Well guys we've been talking about classic styles. Kinda the resurgence the popularity there. We want to talk a little bit about any IDIOSYNCRASIES with Bruin these styles and then maybe talk a little bit about recipe development. So Ron I think you've kind of mentioned that want that. These classic styles are really attest for a homebrew or skill. Because because you can't bury anything behind your adjuncts are behind your coffee or the first the first time I think it was We try to pills and thought did everything right. I've got temperature control. So you know started cold and then did a diaster rest and did all of that pulled it out tasted it just biden a stick of butter. I don't know why it was but it was there. So that batch didn't work so You know if that was an AOL or an darker beer. Maybe it wouldn't have been noticeable. You you dry up the heck out of it you could probably bury it but not in that beer that one it was it was there. Try Fermenting I added more fresh yeast to try. I can't think of the exact term for that. It didn't kill it ended up. I don't know that we dumped that beer but gave it to people. That really didn't know what they were drinking fair enough. I think I've heard heard that if you I don't know if this is true or not I believe I read that if you put Brett in a beer with A problem it can clean that up. I'm guessing you probably try that you so you had the interest you have to keep that mind because now you unless you a really good about cleaning your equipment. You've introduced that into all of your so. I think it's one they say if you don't if you're not ready to go you know bready or wild like that. I think it may be thirty. Seven eleven is at the Front Cezanne on yeast either. That is one of them. That's one that'll just chalk like if it can be firm that one's GonNa run that one's going to do it right so you may change the character a little bit with that. Funky Cezanne's Saisons but if you've got a stuck fermentation that's the beast. You WanNa send in. If you don't WanNa go Brett this was completely fermented it. Just the Diaz was just in there. Just this just wasn't gonNA. That's that's a case where you put a Harry Potter label on Your House okay. It's all right that's it man you gotTa do it mark the label sour. If something goes faulk you on your boom here but you know the other thing is that we we went back. And we've done it again since you know we're still working on developing our loggers pills nurse on because they are so difficult but You know the Nice thing is I was talking earlier. The the professional brewers. There's couple local guys that I can call them up and say this is what I'm doing or this is what's going on a recipe. They'll help you out there just so great the local okay guys here specifically here Jason Pellet orpheus and Gavin McKenna at Atlanta brewing. I can send them an email anytime time of day or night. Within twenty four hours I response. They're just wonderful guest. I've got tons of help out of the Jason's helped me a lot and that's one thing when we started brewing. I'm the type of I don't know oh something I can't google it. I'm GonNa find somebody that knows what I'm going to get the answer so I'd go out bugging these guys. Scott had dean and this back. When will avery was at Bert Hicks Games? Yes Lot when I messed up Scott. Tell me this isn't right. You didn't do this right. You know this what's wrong and you need to fix it so and a lot of times if you're giving guys free beer it's all roses you know. So it's to find someone who will give you honest feedback on your beer and say this flaws in here you know. This is one of the advantages of entering competitions patients. Because it's all unbiased. They don't know you from Adam they don't know your beer. They don't know anything about just sending beers up to New England to California. They don't know who radio not that they even see it but usually get some fairly constructive feedback. Sometimes judges send the same beer to two things and you get a forty one. You get a twenty in another in there. It's the same. A beer say packaging. It happens and something could have changed the environment. The temperature was served in whatever judges. I just pallet. Did he have chilly the night before. Or maybe eating Chili while judge in your beer did he just drink a skunk beer beforehand. That and I think a lot of competitions make thank you send them to bottle so you don't know if both if they had out of the same bottle I don't know I I assume but maybe does sure enough guys. Do you develop all your own recipes. Do you do any kits any longer. Michael is the is the recipe we okay. Here's the artist. How long did you do kits before you switched over and said let's do restaurants wrestling's that's I did it once and we wanted to do? Yeah it's fun it's fun to. That's part of the the the joy for me is to develop the recipe. And you know I always ask mom. What do we have an inventory? And then I try to figure out a recipe for that serves food. You can go win and tell them what you have in the fridge and they'll tell you what you can make an cocktails then call so I was more relevant to my. You know I know ruined for years and years and years and still use the kits. That's cool if you just want to make some beer and go with it but we kind of what's your process Michael when you develop s generally what I'll do is I saw it online. I will will Do some research I like to look and read about the style itself from like the. JCP guidelines I look at some online information about the style and then I will look at recipes that other people on. I'll look at ten or twelve different recipes. Louis where people are doing their techniques and stuff and then generally what I do is I'll put together a recipe. And then I send send it over to Ron. And he kinda he he's like my editor will fine tune it or he'll say maybe this would work better and we go back and forth and then we come up with something and it works kind of the process guy. So he'll make up the recipe and then he'll send it to me and I'll say I for our equipment we need. We need to change this. This little bit right so the efficiencies are going to be a little bit different for this is recipes so we'll change grain bill just to add a little bit more this or add subtract a little bit of this or you are. hops are Yeah we're using two thousand eighteen hop versus a two thousand seventeen up so we have to adjust the The IB you a little bit so that. That's that's kind of what the recipes or and and all that stuff I'll do the water profiles you write it up. And then he checks it for sentence structure and Graham. Yeah I I just feel free flow in there on the creative man. That's the way it happens guys. We need to take another break. We're going to be back very soon. We're going to talk a little more about recipe development. We're going to dive a little bit into some new brewing science developments there so you're listening to bear guy's radio show. We'll be back right after this. Brian and Tim the beer guys. If you're like us no launcher dinners complete without a pint or two of craft beer. Which is why truck and tap in downtown Woodstock Alpha and Duluth are always on our list? Tim And why do they call it. Truck and tap tap part is easy Brian. They've got eighteen of them as for the truck part. That's where it gets interesting truck tat. Features your favorite Atlanta area food trucks to getting a different menu. Every day truck tap in downtown Woodstock Alfa Reta and DULUTH TRUCK UNTAPPED DOT COM. Let them know that the beer guys sent you. Craft beer forged with a reverence for tradition and new styles that start a revolution ironmonger brewing. The brewers at ironmonger brewing pride themselves being masters of barrel aged oppy and Sour Beers. The invite you to their taproom in Marietta Georgia to taste and see also visit their barrel room for an intimate drinking experience with great live. Entertainment commits keep up to date on all things ironmonger by liking them on facebook ironmonger brewing establishing a new standard in craft beer and follow the beer guys on facebook book twitter and Instagram. Now back to the beer guy's radio show welcome back to your guest radio show if you enjoyed the show. Please consider supporting us on Patriot. Just go patriots dot com slash. Beer guys pitchers get cool. Perks like beer guy. Swag commercial free episodes and bonus episodes. That aren't available anywhere else. And we've got one. This is a new bonus s Brian. So we have We drank a two thousand nine semigloss classic. Yes recently as from the cellar. So we talk about where Santa clauses brewed. We talk about the beer and we just have Daban talk there and there's some interesting history with the creator of that people don't realize so yes. Check it out. Yeah check that out check. Check it out. But in the meantime we're going to get back into some homebrew talk. Yes Brian. When we went to break we were talking about designing your own recipes and Michael Run more quick question for you talking about the recipe design? I I think the thing that's cool with that. Is You know different grains different hops for those that don't they may not know this that even the grains even certain types of You know say Appel Mall different brands that you're gonNA have. You can get different flavor characteristics. We Ron. And I as we've gotten into this week we keep a pretty good stock of grains we probably have about Oh l.. I would say at least a dozen different grains that we keep in stock that we can use the ones that you call based grains your all your pills and that kind of stuff. We'll we'll buy that fifty thought pounds at a time And then some of the specialty grains we buy in five or ten pounds and we try to stay the same brand variations but not so much between raw and great western and different branch. Definitely GonNa have different more variant. And you know we're going to dive into a little more details around that soon because a lot of places they just say to row you know and you may get you know whatever if you buy it from this place or that place if you don't get the same place every time you know tour is GonNa be different. It's going to be different different levels of protein. which are your beer you yeah clear clearness or haziness as have you ever maybe had a few drinks just bought just a boatload of grain and stuff is that ever happened to it has happened Hopefully I believe my wife isn't listening to this episode. I love the grains. I love the difference in the reins and try in them. You know for those of us that homebrew one one of the things running ideas before we brew will almost always takes the grain and just eat it if you taste the flavor of it. Yeah I had a went to a local homebrew shop. Probably one at one point picked up about two hundred fifty pounds. I need this out this and you know another thing you can do. We've done grain t's just steep him and some some water and taste and see what they come out with an amazingly enough. You can dry hop bud light to get an idea of Hop Characteristics and actually drop. Bud Light is not bad. It's it's better than by air and we've done a sensory I don the sensory for off Labour's and they use the bud light because it has a base. Yeah so if you WANNA taste offers like you had it to a bud light and then you can taste. What the off limits Jacqueline? So Ron we were talking a little bit on the break and it sounds like you're the man asked this question A lot of new homes will not mess with this. You probably want to get into it pretty deep before you do but water chemistry because you can impact your beer a lot from that. So what do you guys do. As far as water. Chemistry Chemistry is huge. And Fortunately we're we're pretty blessed here in Georgia that we have a very low mineralized water so it's a pretty blank slate. It's not our water but you know you don't have to dilute it much if you're doing something that's the cleaner beer like that you can use it and build up so what I typically do is I'll I'll do a little research on the style of beer that were brewing. What I I use Brune water water so You know I I read sheet. That helps you calculate gives you h values it gives you a different mineralisation by this amount of gypsum of I add this and this and this this is what would I get and it has prebuilt profiles in there so a lot of times. I'll use a pre-built profile and then build our Georgia water to that profile Sometimes I'll play around with it. I'm not a big fan of Super Super Sulfate High Sulfate Beer. So I kind of dial that back a little bit even in our I P as in some of the others because You know we'll use east. That's pretty high attenuation waist which dry it out a little bit gets pretty dry anyway for that versus adding high sulfate but that that's kind of the next level with it and for those that haven't brewed like we talk about the grain rain selection. You know you're gonNA taste different from one one grain manufacturer to the other of its cultural. Your hops you can have different alpha acids and some brides GonNa dive into and just a little bit with. They're talking more. We're about like terroir with grains and hops and all that something that really has got paid a lot of attention. Yeah until recent. It's been kind of big in the news and I don't know how much you guys the dived into like the effects of tear war on grain and hops. But I I know we were talking. I think it was Santa. Ana Masin like there are some opposite grow well in places but they actually grow best in other places you know. Maybe the yields better or maybe just the the end result is better. I don't I don't know how much you guys have looked into that. And how much that affects. What you purchase for from from ruin your beer? I would say that that's probably a little bit more extensive than what we've gone into hops. We typically from Yakima Valley. I trust that they do. You know. Do a good job with their hops Different grains again. We're buying. We're trying to buy ads. Consistent brand is possible on our base grains at least that way we know what to expect aspect from batch to batch. Well that's tough right now. For Commercial Brewers terroirs. So you know the homebrew. That's one thing you know we've heard people talk about like hop contracts and you go out there at the beginning of the season and you you pick this specific crop that you want and you get contracts on that because if you don't do that there's no telling what you get in. There can be a huge variance. You know in what hops yet. So the Master Brewers Association. I'm getting this information via a Stan. harems is a hop queries newsletter. If you don't get that in your interesting type science sign up for it. I think. Definitely Appalachian Beer Dot Com. I think so. Yeah but you can find out there anyhow. He mentioned that. The Master Brewers Association did a report. And they say there's there's also there's pros and cons to define and terroir because you could make one place be perceived as better or worse or this and that and it could really impact the way farms are done. It could impact prices if people think this you know certain terroirs better so and the study is very very young still looking at their war so there's not really well established information on that but let's say you have options at least maybe not so much the hospital with malts there has been local monsters rising up all over the place. We've talked to River Bend Malthouse so if you're looking for something and you might find that. Perhaps what what they have to offer is a better is better substance for what you're trying to do for then something else from a larger manufacturers so that that option is available we recently only got some some riverbed heritage the heritage and really enjoyed it. I thought data Nice Nice Flavor to the now the one of the reasons. We're able to get that again. Let me go back and get credit incred stewed. Jason Pellet offered that he he put it out there to some of the home brewers that he was buying some for his brewery and he was willing to share it. I don't think and I don't know for sure but I don't think river bend is at the point where they can sell at the homebrew level. Yet they sell those larger Guan right and and and they've they've got a business. I'm not suggesting they should be but That might be possible. I was thinking back perusing their website and all the varieties listed. I don't remember if you could actually order directly from. I think if you're willing to go to Asheville you could pick up fifty. It depends on what they're not gonNA ship fifty pounds. Okay just Pallet Sin Raheel by a whole Palette send Mike. That's why I drive a pick up but you know there's there's a lot of developments that I think we're seeing in professional ruined as old as brewing as we're talking thousands of years you know throughout Europe a lot of places in I saw a chart the other day about the oldest operating business in countries in a lot of their breweries especially when you look at the European countries. But we're still learning new things about all this and we were talking about cert- hops ops give anini taste real strong green onion beers but now they're seeing. I think buying if I remember correctly they believe part of an oxidation issue during hot side additions in the whirlpool like a hot site. Oxidation issue can compound that. Is that correct interesting. Yeah I believe that's what I've read. I actually don't know a tremendous about okay about it. But I do not have debated discussed the the hot side aeration and the effects of that on beer quite a bit over the other things that they've talked about is like dry hopping. You know they're finding out. Now that certain hops I think this one was specifically Eureka. hops if they study yeah Eureka and they said after two days it had basically given up all of its aroma compounds everything that contributes aroma. And give you all those tropical fruity flavors that you want it and if you want anything past those two days you started getting herbal a very herbal bitter compounds so you know people are finding all these things about how quick it happens. Time on Hobson. Everything Can make a huge difference in your beer. And I think it'll be something that we pretty much continue to go through with different science experimental hops coming out new hops coming out that tastes like over barrels and barrels and stuff from a hop so lots of fund for homeowners to have Right. Yeah I mean we've really tried Sabroto which has coconut in the ASS. So it's a wonderful trip of a hobby and it's yeah yeah it's legitimately there. It's it's crazy that you can get that out of a hop. It's exciting though it is yes. Well guys. We have to wrap up the show here but your beer's going to be out there for some folks to try soon I think you're going to the classic city Brew Fest in Athens Georgia. Oh and Ogle tree. Who runs at He's been very good to us. I don't know why but I appreciate it. But yet he's at It's a cask festival and we are going to have a cast at that festival Really looking forward to it because what humble by because there are some amazing breweries that he gets gets to come and the fact that he would include us is quite an honor for us. We'll make sure you get your pressure set so you don't have to drink your whole cast. Get drunk on your own beer. There are doubts because whatever works Soyuz. Yeah well guys if folks want to see what runny breweries up to work and they do that. Well Grandma our biggest. It's about rainy day underscored brewery. We're working on some other social media media Were conscripting younger. Members of our family. Dental needs some help right. Yeah but It's it's a great community here and we're learning a lot. Good stuff guys will thanks so much. It's an you know if you are listening to this on the radio we're going to have an extra segment for our podcast listeners. Something we didn't get a chance to talk to you in the regular show about brewing competition. So we're GONNA stick around grab the podcast odd. CAST to check that out. That wraps it up for this episode of the Beer Guy's radio show join us next week as we're talking with mad tree brewing for more crea- info follow US online. We Are you guys ready on facebook. Twitter instagram we got them all. Michael we all the socials. They're going to jail time out. Yes absolutely thanks for tuning in. y'All have a great week. Don't forget to drink. Local cheers. Uh Uh all of the the beer guys on facebook twitter and instagram now. Back to the guy's radio show. Welcome everybody veto. We like to call the fifth segments of Beer Guy's radio. This is kind of a little more free form doesn't go on the radio we can We don't have to worry about the clock we can just talk about whatever we you WanNa talk about. Yeah so we're talking homebrew classic styles and we're GonNa get into Brewing Beers. Bring Home Bruce for competition right because and you know what what we've we've moved on so the beers were drinking now when we when we took break. We got into some of our our goodies in Mike. You brought down a bunch of treehouse from a recent trip. Yes yes I I was fortunate enough to go up there and I actually Had A day where I drove from my brother's house in Connecticut History House in Central Massachusetts then and drove all the way across the Boston and picked up some trillium and then circle back to my brother's house for dinner. Good Style and we've got some new creature beers that we just got thanks creature for sharing. Are these with us. What's that one called? Brian cuts from the bind. WPA The finest hops from our favorite farmers. That's under there is good to me so I didn't do a great job of introducing traducing who we have with us. If you weren't listening to the show this you might not know that we have Michael Syrup. And Ron Mitchell homers who are collectively known as rainy day brewery worry and they are award winner Sir Award West of Georgia homeboys but if they skipped directly to the fifth segment of our podcast. It's it's a little weird. I kind of like their style. Yeah just going right into it. No rules exactly guys. We're going to talk a little bit with you. Like we said about Bruin for competition because I think from talking to people. What you necessarily brute a drink is not always what you would roofer competition now that changes a little bit if you are doing the classic styles like we've been talking about but is there anything specific that you guys do to prepare for brewing or anything you do differently when you bruin a beer for a competition well I I would say that The whole whole we've entered competition since we started just to kind of get feedback on what we're doing now that we've done it. We've got had a little success at it. We want to try to. You know that competitive headed veges starting to kind of push a little bit so we will be certain beers that we brew that were from Noah Competition coming up that we will brew maybe to A. I duNno give it that little extra something. Everybody makes the you know standard beer but if you can make your stand out just a little bit hopefully hopefully it gives you that edge. Maybe it's it's hopefully it's not something that stands out in the wrong way right because that can be tricky because necessarily especially if you are someone who does a lot of experimental type bruise. It can be hard to find the right category to put a beer in to say goes into this or that you do hybrid styles dollars you know for a while. It was very difficult to get the The Hazy Ip as the New England. Where do they go here there now? They have their own their. Yeah Yeah I still think the the BJP which is where the guidelines come from there are still a little bit behind where the brewing industry is in the home. Brewers are in two thousand fifteen was the last update eighteen. Wasn't it now they they they. They haven't changed their definitions of styles since To to this right now New England. IPA's are in the same category of specialty Ip's they go in with Belgian IPA's white all those that's a so what's something if you can reveal what's something you've done with like any one of your beers what's an example of something you've done to just kind of knock it up. Put it up a notch swell stand for example are are Kentucky common which we had earlier yeah We added a little bit of extra of some specialty Malta. Give it a little a little bit extra caramel note just to kind of a little sweeter now I it. It tends to the sweet as a sweeter beer but we we wanted it to stand out And then sometimes what you do is you brew beer and then you taste it and you realize you can't enter it in the category brooded for exactly right. Yeah we brutes pills that we thought we were GONNA hit pills and we tasted this kinda sweet. So yeah did he did pretty well was. Alice wasn't a pills but did fairly well. Okay see that's it played to the style. WE BREW TO HALF OF ICE IN ONE TIME that my cousin is gluten intolerant. And so we use clarity firm in it. Brilliant idea on my part. He has a a a wheat. Beer that's supposed to have that. We'd Hayes in it and you throw clarity firm. And they're what happens drops clear and now we've got a crystal lights and so you know we just said all right you gotta switched over. That's not that's no longer half and actually was a really tasty beer. It was surprisingly easy drinking. Yeah and we got. We got the larger glasses to drink it and it it is probably oddly the the keg that kicked fastest of everything we have everything we brood. Yeah Yeah that was I. I know I remember you sending me a message Brian. And then he showed me that they can kick them like no because I was gonna come drink another big tall. and we weren't Zuber so unexcited about this beer when we because our recipe formulation method as much like yours. We went out and bought like the top six eight ten raided Half of items and sampled those and took notes on what we liked. Didn't like what we wanted in at the end of our sampling day. Were like really not not that excited about Bruin this pointing so we're like well we're this far into it. Let's do it and we ended up. Bruin has one of those that I could take it or leave it. But when they're done extremely extremely well they're they're good it's a classic style to very much so and that's the other thing when you bring them for competition you brewing for what the judges expect for that style and so you have to read the guidelines you have to know what in sometimes it's not exactly what we think of as that style of Beer I like my stoute's for example. I don't like a lot of hop character in Moscow to keep my jobs. But but we've brute assed out and and sentenced in competitions untold. There wasn't enough -nough hop character and we were detained for so you know we went back and looked and you reread the style islands. And you'll learn and you know again. It's it's It's an educational process. But it's good because it makes you refine your ability to bring us us yet like you said you know because what you like to drink is not always what necessarily fits that we did. A Pizza Zahn one time and entered in a couple of competitions and I thought it was is perfect because it was the Cezanne really shine through and you taste like you were biting into a fresh peach but you still had the says on their way. Because I like with Fruit Beers I enjoy still being able to tell the bay style of the beer but I got dinged for not enough peach from four different judges across to competitions. And like now this. This isn't right. That was the perfect amount of peach. Well it was. The perfect amount for me was didn't necessarily fit the category. You know that I'd put it into for what should be a fruit beer. I also liked it. I I think that We saw we were on the tip of the Spear for Heavily Fruity Beers at that point in time we we didn't realize that was coming so Ah I think that was a good indicator that that was on the horizon. We just didn't see it. So but for the sow a subtle an in not overwhelming. It wasn't all just peach or fake. Wasn't a paint roller of fruit on your tongue. It was a beer that had nice peach notes to it so I I like what we did as well but it does seem that at competitions. They want that extra. Oh yeah it. It can't just be a subtle if you're GONNA call it a peach beer. It can't be a subtle peach it has to be. It has to be there has to be has to be pronounced. We might have done better if we just submitted as a Cezanne and seat if people Oh my this has been wonderful we might have actually one with the other thing about competitions is if you have a question entered in three different categories entered as a regular. Cezanne entered as a fruit beer. You're entered as this ed see. How does the problem with that is all the beers you have to give away that you want not to give away especially if you really like the beer? That was a consideration ration- few times where it was a couple of where we were like man. We're getting I want to enter this but again lower low on this beer sure. Yeah when you're proud of it you're like I don't I don't want sitting there and unappreciated. 'cause I know will love it. I know our friends will take it too. So yeah when you guys asked us to come on here and we were excited to do it. We knew we were GONNA brings him more beers. I think. There's one or two competitions. We didn't end because we had to bring the here times right. And you know like you were saying Ron with that little something extra. It is tricky to get the extra without going outside at coloring outside the lines. You know. There's been com. We've done well in competitions we've done we've we've medaled several different times with a few different beers and we've had our feelings hurt a couple times too where we've just been super proud of a beard and there's you know there's beers and I hope this does well. There's a couple of times I've entered and I'm like we're getting best to show with this. This is going to win at all man and I'll come back and not even metal metal. I'm like man. I don't even know way no way as we talked about. You just never know what happened to that transit at the competition. Maybe they dropped. It rolled around. Maybe it sat in the back. Somebody's taking it from place eight and sat in the back of that car. You know two days in one hundred twenty storage shed. Yeah you just you. You don't know what's happened to your beer between here there so in terms of strategy thinking that you know you'd like to win some medals you'd like to bring home something are there. Do you ever Brew Tapia for a style. Just because you know. That style won't be won't have a lot of competition you'll have a fighting chance to win the Kentucky. Common is a historic beer. It's not on a beer that I could ask ten people. Probably three of them have ever heard of it. River had one right so that is one now. We didn't for that reason. We brewed because somebody asked us to do something similar to that but it fits in great in in competition. Because there's not a lot there's not a lot of competition in that the competition right but the interesting thing is with historical beers and you guys are talking about the evolution of beer. We talked about that a little bit earlier. One of the historical Styles als is Gaza. It was considered historical now making sure. So I mean it's it's it's different so you you know the Kentucky he common competes against the goes and there's a couple of other beers as a Polish style. That's in there in a couple of other guys. Do you consider what is west coast. Ip a is that a classic style. I know okay all right Brian what do you think is west coast. Ip Classic Style. Yeah I think it's I don't WanNa say it's it's I want to say it's classic it's been around. It's established. I think it interesting coaching. It's it's getting there. Yeah I my feeling. Is that when you're talking about competitions. It's the one that if you just enter I if you enter into competition as an IP. They're expecting a less cost. Ip If you if you're doing any other still are yes if New England you're entering it as a special Ip and you're not not now there's new New England and we got. We got dinged once. We did what we thought was annoying. Ip but this was a couple of years ago and we decided doing New England ib and like you talked about your halfway so we. We did a clear beer but had a lot of fruity hops. And we got dinged because it wasn't hazy. Well there's no guideline for that you know what when the New England. IPA A PA craze. I came to Georgia La. The commercial brewers doing stuff like that. You were getting a lot of kind of hybrid. You'd have a hazy west coast so you'd have this fear that was hazy but was just pine tree bitterness in your face with a little hit of tropical fruit there. It was something where everybody heard. This thing was a craze and they started doing their own interpretation of it. Same thing with the little flash in the PAN last year with brewed. IPA's Oh yeah. People did their own interpretation of it and they were just being very liberal. I still absolutely we have not done it and keep talking about giving it a shot but I've had some I enjoy it. I'm good with them too. I'm not one hundred percent. Sure sure they're done. I think that maybe they're not as hot as they. Once were. Either on life support Brian. I think they have. I think there's possibilities to be explored with you what you can do with basically adding emily's to Drive out man's writing out what you can do with that so I think there's there there are things that could be done we might. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some. Some people applying that strategy to different types of beers. I think it was one of the meaning beer. instagram accounts the other day. That's like do you have any. Do you have have any of us. The Ron Swanson me M- it's like do you have. Are there any history of illness of mental illness in your family. And he said I've got an uncle who's still trying to make brewed uh-huh beer maims. Yes guys I think we're GONNA wrap this up. Is there anything for a homebrew out there. Somebody who's just started or is is You know getting new or get ready star competition any final words or your one prototype Michael. My big thing is join a homebrew club. There are a lot a lot of people. There that will give you good feedback and give you tips and Most of us aren't doing something new. Everybody's everything you've done as a been there done that and find somebody who's been there and done that Cadel I would say. Don't get yourself crazy on the blogs. Don't read everything and believe. Oh this is what I have after do riser. so much garbage out there and there's so many people that say on the professional brewer. That maybe never even brute a batch in their life find John Palmer get your get your base get your basics down and then expand from. There could tell Brian. What's your one pro tip for? Home brewers sanitation. That seems like it always comes back to sanitation and also listened to gas radio. But you already are. So you're you're ahead of the already. My pro tip hip take amazing notes phenomenal notes document everything so when you go back to brew it if you did something right you know what you did and more importantly if you did something something wrong you know what you did so great idea. Yeah so we've got to don't get caught up in the minutia from Ron Right. We've got Santa Sanitation US Ryan there and Michael. What was yours? I've been drinking. That's okay I I think that you need you join the homebrew homebrew club. Yeah yeah find someone who knows what's up and follow their lead people who brew love to tell other people how they brew so yes they do and share their beer. which is great guys? Thanks so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. You're beers or really tasty. I think we gave some fantastic advice to folks today so pickup homebrew in. y'All give it a shot. Gives you a small Kit Brooklyn. You shop sells one gallon kits than they actually make pretty darn tasty beer. We've done a couple of so you could start on your kitchen if you just WanNa play around and see if it's something you enjoy dawn one make you one gallon of beer. You're gonNA get what Ten bottles out of that. Maybe something like that. Were in there somewhere in there but you have a good time with. This is the beer. Guy's radio show thank you so much for tuning in the end. We'll have a great time. We'll talk to you soon ooh.

Lenzi Brian Georgia Brewers Ron Atlanta US facebook Ron Michael Pills twitter brewers Guy Kentucky instagram California Woodstock Tim Denison Ron Mitchell Michael Syrup
Urban Artifact Opens The Door To A New World

CincyBrewcast

1:07:33 hr | 1 year ago

Urban Artifact Opens The Door To A New World

"A ladies and gentlemen boys and girls. We're back it's another week. Another episode of CINCY broadcast trying desperately to make sense broadcasts sound like it always does even though it is definitely not always as I'm once again holed up in the basement Holed up in the underground confines of Arlene Tavern Socially distancing have a computer screen in front of me and I'm pretending like we're face to face having a beer together. It's I keep thinking that at some point this will just feel like it's normal and it's okay but it doesn't and it still feels really strange and awkward to me breath Colin Baker. Welcome back to the show. It's been a little while we we had a really exciting show scheduled and then all hell broke loose. Yeah hopefully we'll still get to talk about that project here soon Again I have not gotten to try it yet though I will tell you what though what I have gotten to try. Which is what we're used to talk about. I The beer. Free One of secret Normal release beer that you guys do not counting the The dinosaur stuff squeeze box love this stuff when I walked in the house after get walked in from the porch from getting my delivery of this beer. Because that's the thing now I put him on the counter and my three year old walked up to the the beer was looking at home and she saw the double the squeeze box which has very prominent strawberries on the label and she flipped herships. Daddy that's a strawberry beer stronger. She loves strawberries so this is now her favorite beer too just because it had strawberries. GonNa Hook them when they're young right. Exactly what kind of Big Tobacco? Let's talk about the Midwest tarts. I don't know if we really dove into the style that you guys You didn't create the style but you definitely defined the style and put a name to it and Especially here in Cincinnati. Did kind of create what that means and what what is how did that all come about. How did you guys? Maybe the just the idea of using all of this fruit I. How did this happen? So the first Midwest return was the gadget and basically what happened was is every other week. We do bartender training and part of that. Is Alex. go over meet with bartenders and talked to him about beer and we do a little bit of beer learning and all that fun stuff but towards the end I like to open it up to like what are you hearing from. The customers are what things can we do be doing better or like? What are people complaining about or just you know trying to get a pulse of the situation and the thing that came up for couple of weeks in a row was that people would come in and ask for just the most sour end. The most fruity like that was a constant. So at that point. Tomor well reasonable reading levels. Like if you look at Jackie O's Razz weeds like point seven five pounds per gallon of beer of fruit for beer. Which is a lot We like well if they're doing that. And people want all the fruit in all this hour. Oh it's just ramp that up. What is the most we can put in beer and still make beer and still sell it for an not an unreasonable amount of money And then that's how we got to the gadget which is two point seven five pounds per gallon of fruit so almost three times. What like what. Razzie will which was originally baseline was and we just made it as sour as we could get it while still being palatable the end of the day like I don't like Russian beers at your teeth. Feel like they're getting fuzzy. You know I don't know if you've ever had like three floyds skull hole that no I have not just messed me up in a bad way. I've just been off of that over acidic beer so let's kind of work came from and then at that point in time it was. What do we name it out? We call this. What does it fit in to the greater picture that is beer currently and then things got weird like a year ago? Two years ago with these slushy UNFOR- Moon fermented fruit ship. And now all of a sudden there's this whole weird chasm of like everything we do is fermented out and dry in aiming for drink ability and then on the other end you have these slushy style beers that are basically fruit juice mixed with beer nine and basically as we've seen literally through yes and then in the Middle Yep like new Glarus. So they're serendipity or Bilden read or their strawberry rhubarb. I'm sure you've had those before. Those are really sweet beers to and they're just doing. They're doing a similar thing except they're adding clarified juice and pass rising in snaking a shelf stable great product but it is definitely on the sweeter end. And they definitely don't ferment. Out All those fruit flavors which is why it's so fresh fruit tasting but then you go a step further for like what for fifty north is doing. And some of these other burris even us with our Parfait program you literally just take fruit puree whole puree and just dump it into the keg in mixed the beer into it and then you get this shelf stable product. That's thick been gooby and has a bunch of pulp in it and it's weird. I don't know I guess it's natural progression. It's progression is when you say natural progression it. Almost it upsets me. Because I don't feel like this is a progression from beer. I feel like it's an offshoot. A branch maybe from this thing. That beard's beer drinkers trying to experiment. I think there's a lot of people that are getting into wine now. That wouldn't have otherwise. The beer has gotten into that. Not that wine is a natural progression from beer. It's it's a branch from that path to Drinking everything that you can possibly put in your mouth if that makes sense. I like the I like all of the stuff that's happening. I I've even had some of the The four fifty stuff that you know. I don't know what the ABC is on it. And I don't know if it's GONNA blow up in my trunk on the way back from wherever I got but It's good but it's a very different type of product than Whatever else might be drinking and I think these midwest fruit tarts are extremely different from anything else I've had before they came out even some of the other stuff that when you guys you has wrote a great blog post about the style when you invent it then named some other beers kind of fit into that category and even some of that stuff that you talked about in there is very different than what you guys have ended up with today and it's it's really has created its own category that you see other places now trying to kind of Replicate a little bit and knowing that people love him so much you guys keep go ahead so I've kind of tried to rationalize in my mind. How does this? Where does this unfermented fruit juice thing fit in to beer as a whole and? I guess I don't know enough about the history of like rattlers for instance we're rattlers like huge at one point in time at this point in time. What's the difference between a rattler? And what four fifty or anyone else is doing with these beers. You're having I would say that a Radler when you know when they were popular I if they still are. I don't know but you know from what I've always read. They became popular in. Germany is something you would sit or in Europe where you would sit in the beer garden. You're drinking something all day. You want something low A. B. Refreshing. And that's kind of how they became popular. I would say that's very different than what for fifty years as we say. I don't know that they're both to be refreshing. Oh I don't think that beer drinkers are flocking to these slushy beers or whatever you wanna call them because they are low A. B. B. and they're refreshing and that's you wanna sit in the sun and pound them. I feel like it's a different type of thing that's driving them. I don't know what that thing is necessarily. I don't know if it's just the hype itself up behind some of these things the rarity of it if that's a thing still Or if it's the fact that it's fruity and people like sweet things. It might just be that simple. You love sugar it's There was a large. And maybe it's still around with the Seltzer thing and everything. But there was a push for people to try to create products that appealed to non beer drinkers. And maybe this fruit slushy thing is that. Maybe that's where it ended up. I don't know or maybe. He ended up with Seltzer. I don't know I mean that's a good point and like if you're looking at the wine world the majority of wines that are drank our sugary deep garbage in like Maybe maybe it's in that vein. Maybe it's the appealing to the non. Like just like those sugary wines appeal to the non wine drinker because they're technically drinking wine. But like you going for the more beginner pallet so to speak like maybe that's the. Maybe that's the coronary I don't. Maybe it is the the not your father's root beer of beer. Yeah it it'll be curious to see and and I'm sure that somebody has kind of tried to figure it out but the people that are drinking those are the people who are just getting into craft beer and that's right where they're going is into this as they taste it or is it people who have been drinking craft beer for a long time and maybe have a more I hate to call. It developed pallet because I feel like that's kind of Dushi to say but have more of a a the Palette for other styles of beer that then find this and I really like this and so I have a hard time believing that if you loved or love big giants Aaa Pa's or you know some of these these really fantastic nuanced Lamb bags are Belgians hours that then the progression from that is a slushy beer. I just I can't well and they may be wrong on that too. I mean the idea of putting fruit in in a beer is not absurd when you start talking about some of those Belgian styles. Either I think there is a very good reason that you don't see that style of beer on the national scale. It is like a large hype drawing attention getting thing but like four fifty north in in these other breweries doing these things like that. Like nine zero three and director and in the Vale an answer or whoever's doing these over fruited Juice Beers. They're not making quantity of it. It's not going to kroger. It's not out selling or even making a blip on any national data so maybe it is literally just this weird insular thing that much like I don't know it's almost like beer astroturf in a way really bigger than it actually is. I'm so what is is it cost prohibitive to do though on a large scale for if a if a large wanted to make a slushy beer like that could they do it and make it make sense for them. I think you can Because you can get cheap. I mean you could just go get your furnace. You don't need to raise so you can get juices and you can get juice for fifty cents. A pound may not. That's Malt level pricing. So at that point in time you grew up six percent beer with the cheapest grain. You can get you ferment. It out and then you blend it down and you pasteurize it and you put it in a can and you're good to go like. I don't see why you couldn't do that. We do see the popularity with stuff like blue moon or the the line meritas or stuff like that. That is like this fruited thing but it's still not in that same category some of the slushy stuff but Those are popular people. Do the really like that for some reason. So maybe maybe if a large brewery decided to make a slushy here maybe they know about it. Maybe they don't even know it exists but if they decided to I I could see it being popular I can see it becoming a mainstream thing. Yeah I don't know I don't know if it would be more of a flash in the PAN like not. Your father's was where it got really big for a couple years then. Kind of faded into this low level obscurity. Or It'd be like an. I don't think it'd be like shelters. Oh either I think there's probably a middle ground when there's some people on our team who still thinks seltzer might disappear another year or two but man. Seltzer here to stay forever. I'm curious to see what the sale of Seltzer has done now. That people aren't drinking in bars and aren't drinking on. You know around the pool with our friends I. I'm really curious to see if that has taken more of a hit than beer has because to me. The thing about Seltzer. Is everybody standing in a bar with those cans and like this weird other thing I i. I don't think people are sitting around at home on the couch watching TV drinking. Maybe I'm wrong now. I just can't for the life of me figure that out. I mean the numbers for off premise. Up so like up hundreds of percents still like at through March. They're up like three hundred percent year over year. So there someone's bynum. It's it's absolutely. I feel like every person that I know. There's a craft beer. Fan is drinking them in does not telling each other like. That's the only explanation for attacking absolutely before will y finish this before. I dive into my next one. I guess we have to talk about the the large elephant shaped virus in the room Grown virus you guys as. I'm sure everybody got hit with this. Pretty hard How have you guys how you managed that? How have you adapted? What have you guys done to kind of deal with this so I the time? Mid To late February was rolling around. It was becoming pretty obvious that things were going to happen in the United States so it was at that point in time we started looking into an online store in what that unveiled. I know what the beginning to. Your dog rode out there online stores. They were ahead of the curve by like three months So we were looking into it and we were starting to build a framework for such an event and then it hit on Sunday night. The things restaurants are getting shut down and then on another Sunday night. Hit again that we stay at home order was put in place but luckily for us we were. We saw this coming to an enough of a degree. Were able to get ahead of it. And yes we had furlough all of our staff and we had a furlough one third of our staff just because cash flows. We lost forty percent of our business overnight. On premise was forty percent of our sales. So all of that just gone so we had to get basically forty percent of our costs Which we were able to do and then we're able to get the online store. Launched within a week of the state home order a going into place. And that's really just been a godsend for us and I guess I shouldn't say God's end but a well-prepared plan that went into action that did as doing really well But even even with that you guys you guys have managed to find the states where you're able to ship beer and has started adding those the list. I wish I had written about so that I had it in front of me. Because it's I mean. How many states are you up to now that you can ship to. Do you know your head. Eleven that's impressive. To that was the first one was big. Thanks to Betty so we were working all in the back end stuff but we didn't really know the legalities of it all but right when this the first Certain restaurants and stuff. Benny Bullets contacted the Ohio. Liquor Control Board and got clarification on our manufacturing license inability to ship direct to customers so before even other states where you looking into it. But he got that information and shared publicly with everybody in the craft brewers association our Trade Guild for the state and she shared all that information. And put it out there that you any Berea Ohio with an a manufacturing license which they all have direct shift consumers are delivered to consumers so like the INFO was out there. We were just prepared to get on top of it and then with the other states thing. I just looked at what other I mean. This sounds like way less cool than it is. I just looked at each other. What other groups were doing other ones that are like Dr Deliver Eleven States? So caught up on his. Hey you guys are going to eleven states. How did you figure those eleven states out? What other states are good if any? They're like oh we went to these because he's only ones that allow it all the other states. Don't here's the person in charge of it or named Jenny Lane. And then she helped us out a little bit too. Then we just call these states up and dinner paperwork and that You know it it all at the same time if we could have but like some states just slower than other states so as states gave US approval with permitting we've been launching them and it gets a little dicey when you start talking about wine versus beer wine you can do like thirty seven states beers only eleven. So there's a couple of Burris at North Carolina. I won't say which ones but they're delivering to thirty seven states that is not legal but After conversing with them the their decision making process was well. It's the pandemic in anything goes and I'm I'm willing to bet will get forgiveness in the end so which is probably true. It is but it's totally fun. There's a lot of things that I've seen people kind of pushing that line on either because of ignorance and not knowing what they're doing or desperation or whatever it may be people are pushing those limits and just trying to Trying to keep existing. I think it's one hundred percent out of fear and out of desperation too. So it's it's hard to fault some of these places. Some of them may not need to but Good good points I mean. What do you think's GonNa happen with the on premise Kale Marquette once this opens backup? Cakes are going to be so cheap. There's so many out there. There's GonNa be a lot of bad beer though to that split. Not Not bad beer. Bad bad badly handled the beer cellphones good. There's going to be dirty tap lines. There's going to be old kegs. There's IT's GonNa be it's GonNa be a nightmare for a really long time trying to find our way out of this How do you? How do you navigate? That is our next. Big thing is like okay. The market probably going to bottom out. Because he's going to be so many breweries who don't want to do the right thing and are going to sell their beer. That's Outta code for cheaper than they should. Which means that off as a Burrito of it has a very staunch not discounting are Bir policy. Ever how do we compete with that? How how our on premise? Going to get back to anywhere close to where it was bruiser out here undercutting like crazy and these bar owners are going to be worried too because they're going to be the there's no way far customers hits pre cova numbers right away. It's GONNA take years so they're gonNA WANNA make money too. So how do we fit into all that like I? I don't know it's it's a really weird time line coming up how to you. We're all just guessing. That's what's like you can't try to figure this out. You don't know number one you don't know when things are going to go back to normal whatever that means It's just so hard to figure out how to even start to navigate some of the stuff. You're just it's like something happens and you you react. It's like this constant reaction to these things and I I don't know I I definitely do not envy being in any viewer shoes at this point. Because it's scaring I guess this is only like this is related but kind of side point something. That's really been really cool about online store is that we've we've always had pretty good penetration. In the big metro areas the three CS Toledo Dayton a pretty good amount of our beer in those markets. Especially if you go like an independent retailer you're gonna find our stuff but what's really cool with this online stories. Most of our customers are coming from rural areas in Ohio. People who who may have had us before but don't WanNA drive to Columbus every time they wanna get beer. You know. It's forty five minutes away so now it gives them the opportunity to buy beer and get a direct ship. I just had no idea how much opportunity in rural America. There is the the issues just that like this small little independent shop like Wooster Ohio. Or something doesn't want to carry three cases of our product because there might be two people in the whole city that want to drink. It only takes two people from every tiny little city across the whole state. It's a Shitload of customers. It's been really cool to see. Does it create longer term? Does it create a whole new way of doing things or could it for a brewery? I I don't know if like that could exist. If you weren't already a brewery that had already built some kind of following somehow like I don't think that it could just start and you could just send us beer out all across Ohio. Me Like here try our stuff order it online and like I. I don't think that would happen. But because you guys have already built this thing like if I lived in you know Bob's town Ohio you know way out Miller nowhere and I had had your beer. I could get it at a local store. I might have to drive an hour to get to it. But they're not gonNA I can't get You know the the variants of Midwest Fruit Tart sitting on a shelf there. I can't necessarily find the dino beer sitting on a shelf there now I can just jump on the website and boom. It's right and it's on my door. You know they could sit on my doorstep. That's exciting if I if I lived somewhere like that this is how I want to get my beer from. Almost all of my favorite breweries. Because it's unless I was going to the brewery of course but it's it changes things it does and you touched on a good point too in regards to if we were talking about this earlier this week with our brewers like if we if this happened when we were year one of our business even year to we'd be toast like that would be it is there's your we need the the social capital that we built the last five years in order to half the presence in the Wilderness in the knowledge where we cancel any of these these people across the state of Ohio. Because you're right you can't just slip on the light switch and all of a sudden expect all these customers be your doorstep it just it doesn't exist and we're seeing in these new states that were opening like we opened up. Nebraska and North Dakota Oregon. And Yeah we're getting some some orders from those places but like people don't know about us in those states so it's going to take a long time for word of mouth spread and for us to get a good penetration but because we already have that in Ohio we have. We were lucky. In that regards we have the time. Is this something that's going to stick around for things. Go back to normal. That's out of the bag now man. It's not it's not going back in the. There's just no damn way it. It'll be a pain point. I've a feeling maybe not with US artistry because we've been very communicative the whole time with them from the beginning about what we're doing and there might be needed to be some concessions that need to be made in the future but at this point in time with the power that direct to consumer has for a brig our size and what it allows us to do in the market allows us to reach that. Cavalier. Can't reach because of these small cities they just can't distribute to him. There's just there's no damn way we're going back. There's no way even on a smaller scale like from other breweries like if you're a a imaginary who is not direct shipping to customers like if you want to do like an online only released like in your store drive people to your website to order a beer and then have it shipped right to your house. That's cool like that's a whole other. It doesn't have to be like the way you do all of your stuff but it can be like another little piece of this bigger puzzle in this bigger way to get beer to people that might not be able to make it out to stand in line for release or might not be able to get to a store easily might like it just opens the door to these other things that nobody was thinking about. I think waiting in line for a beer released cultures dead after this. It's there's no way people are going to go back to waiting in line taken off Thursday afternoon to drive to Columbus Indiana to stay overnight and get your chance to beer off a workday when you could just put it online and then you can work and just take ten minutes out of work and wait till the website refreshes and buy it. You're right this is this is a game changer. For for so many breweries. It'll be it'll be interesting to see The WHO embraces this and who drags their feet on it whose distributors are friendly about it and understanding of it and history. Sugars are not because I've already heard a few stories about some people that are not too happy about it but It's just we're entering into this whole. I think that when everything is said and done this is going to be say. It's going to be good for craft beer. 'cause short term. It's not going to be good for craft beer. But as far as this model of how things are done people are getting scrappy again and I think that in itself will be good for this industry at some point once things start to get back to some kind of normal. Yeah you're right. That's a really good way to put it. It is forcing in invention and innovation like the industry. Hasn't seen in quite a while. It's pretty cool. I'm going to open next year. This is a dinosaur beer bay stories. Is that how you pronounce it close enough and we all say the first many boroughs we have each one says it a different way so. I don't know talk about the the Dinosaur Beers the we've definitely talked about the the idea of spontaneously fermented beer on the show before but talk about how that all came about him and why. Yeah so the Donald Beers are like you said are spontaneously fermented sours They're all barrel aged. They're all fermented with only wild yeast and bacteria. Nothing's cultured or Really known to us. And these are all about six pounds to seven pounds per gallon of fruit so Getting close to button up on the edge of what can be legally considered beer rather than trip through wine. That I mean that's that's them in a nutshell so we really try to pull a lot of processes from natural wine making into this. Because we're so far removed from aside from gnashing from what beer making is with these dinosaur beers that we treat them more wine than we do beers in. I think it's really helped us develop a really clean profile even though it is wild eastern bacteria. You're not getting all that crazy. Funky Barnhart Barnyard Eighty Barn House Brett character. And that's all by design where we WANNA keep it as dry in acidic and as wine like is possible without getting funky. There's anything I've learned over. The past five years is as much as I love. Funky beers customers don't like funk and yeah that's Kinda that's Kinda Dino so it's just the biggest expression of the fruit character as we possibly can get into beer. I would be curious to try some of these incarcerated and to see how close they do come to wine because I feel like I could. You could probably trick. A lot of the wine drinkers the people who are normal wine drinkers into this. If it wasn't carbonated as soon as it's carbonated kind pushes it into this. Other place that people are expecting when it comes to beer but They're they're dry. They're they're definitely fruity but they It's not it's not the topic as it is over the top forty but it's a different way than I think you think when you think of a fruited beer everything you guys. It's just it's They're all really well done. They're all fantastic. I have loved every single one of these beers that I've had The the one with the the ballot on cherries the Source or whatever it is Phenomenal absolutely phenomenal beer. And I've got auto cycle in the fridge too and I almost cracked open. But we did it like depending on how you're listening to these like one or two weeks ago or something on the show So I didn't want to backup shows next week drinking the same beer. Plus it's like what ten percent really figured if I'm going to get anything done to. They probably shouldn't so this is my last dinosaur beer. That's in my fridge right now so I figured good night to crack open. We're actually which in package formats on these moving forward to we're to multi packs of one hundred eighty seven nil sized bottles so six point three ounces and we're GONNA do four packs a lot actually. Yeah so a four pack would be the same as one seven fifty but instead of getting just one bottle. They've to open you. Can you know at four servings that a lot The problem with a lot of beers like these is that I'll put them in the fridge. And if I'm getting home on a Thursday night after work I'll open the fridge. I see it there and Michael. That sounds really good macabre. But it's just a random Thursday and what if I had something else comes out? I'm not sitting there enjoying it. Them you know I never want to crack something open. That is special even if it's not if even if I've got whole fridge full of it it's special to crack open just on a normal time and so the smaller format I think makes that easier for me cans. Make that easier for a lot of beers. You've got people doing imperial scouts and stuff in cans which I love because it makes me drink them more than would otherwise This is an awesome beer. Boys and berries poison buries a great A little bit more floral than a blackberry but they got a lot of the richness and they got the same tartness at a raspberry has their phenomenal berry. Really happy that we're able to get those. How do you guys come up with? What the next fruit that you might use. Is it like a big whiteboard with just a bunch of fruits written on it to experiment with the are you? Do you pilot all of the stuff in some regard before you roll it out into a beer. Yes and yes so we have. We don't have a whiteboard. We have a PEN TO SLACK. Channel for brainstorming and one is just literally all the different fruits that we want to drive is like one hundred twenty things on there and then what we'll do is try to source them every year. Some of them are a lot harder to get than others. And every every year we remake. Dyno's we throw in in make more with different fruits Just to see what turns out so this past year we did Apricots Pineapple Kiwi plan taints To other things Arabia berries and something else. I don't remember strawberry but all three them. Were dumpers there's just didn't turn the Kiwi you ferment out. Kiwi just doesn't taste like much. Art Vaguely Fruity. That's really disappointing. Because that was out of all the things you named that was the one I got the most excited we used so much. Kiwi did out the pineapple. Was it just doesn't work on. Its own it was fine but like that's what ended up being The Pineapple Brulee. The that we did that was that was supposed to be a dino dino level fruity nece so we Spice it up a little bit and turn it into the coca cover plantation. It just came out. That was our plan. We're expected more out of that. Contain but we turn that into an APP KAREN INSTEAD. Apricot was a dumper Just didn't taste good. I don't know why we Africa's so good and paperweights great so long story short. Yes yes. We have a huge list of fruits. Yes we try them out. But we usually do like one barrels worth and if it's not good we'll dump it or if it's not good enough for dinosaur beer will blend into something else and turn it into a different one. We tried carrot like every year for the past three years. We just can't figure it out to do it anymore. Yeah where'd you things go for you guys aside from this whole Corona virus thing? Because I know everything is kind of again. Adaptation is the key word with all of this but Looking bigger picture this. Where do you guys are playing around with some really fun stuff? You've got the Though the wine beer hybrid things with the grapes. what what are those given name forum That's right the proof retards you guys. Have that whole. Line that I've talked to a lot of people that are absolutely in love with those things Where do you go as far as product lines and how you keep innovating and keep kind of making things exciting for you guys instead of just rolling out a bunch of Midwest Fruit tarts everyday? Well I mean the Midwest are the are the big driver for our sales. They're like fifty percent of our business. But what will really try to stick within that real fruit sour beer kind of Arena that we're playing in in. Grapes was the brief retards natural extension. On what if we just use a shitload of grapes in like winemakers can do it? Why can't we and then we'll cut it down and we'll see how it goes and it went really well. There's the line is gonNA take a couple of years to really catch on because you're right the people who try it three loving But it's just it's weird it's new. It's small cans. You know. It's a little bit pricier. It's twelve percent. Abc It's all these things that are like should or should I do. I want to take the risk as a consumer but when people do take that risk they really like it. So we're going to spend the next couple of years really trying to make that work because I think as huge potential Outside of that in the Mid West retards negocios the next two things. I'm working on our a light for Tart. So I I don't know what the time line is on this one. You'll probably see a couple of releases this year but it's like three point eight to four percent. Ab hundred calories basically a midwest restart light so to speak but branded as light for. I don't know I don't know what's GonNa Happen with that. The product is good and it's fruity and it's light and I don't like it's not a seltzer. It's not going to be playing as a seltzer on. I don't really WanNa go for the the the active athletic thing but for me. It's just a fun thing where like I can't crush the gadget all day on Saturday while I'm doing yard work I'll be on the ground. It's too it's too strong but if I had like a four percent version that I could just sit there and crush on and go about my day. That's kind of that's kind of goal for us And since it is real fruit and everything the price point will be like eight ninety nine a four pack so not super cheap but not too expensive less than ten bucks so I don't really know There's GonNa be a lot of testing going on with that but I'm really excited for that. Goes in and the other thing is on the complete opposite of extra where we're releasing these. Line Beers. I guess they don't have a name As far as like stylistically goes but they're like sixteen percent. Ab fruit wine beer hybrids. And that's what blew was and so our plan before things hit the fan was that we were going to release this product line with the Cincinnati Observatory to a huge glow party in July And the the whole premise of the beer is based around using ingredients. That you would find when you're going into space so that's how you get it so punched up AB wise So I'm really excited about that. You said you didn't try that one but like the flavor of the flavor is like nothing I've ever had. It is insane in the color. Saturation hurts it almost hurts your eyes look at it in person. It's really weird. It's own damn good and I'm so excited for what's going to happen with that. And I guess the copy out of like a local competitions playbook like we'll probably treat it similar to like mattress high series where we'll do a couple of drops a couple of times a year and that'll be about it and it will just be the special limited thing. The ingredients are not cheap. So it's going to be twenty five dollars a four pack for eight ounce cans but I think if you keep it special limited and small batch I think people really gonNA lose their minds over it. You've you've seen that you've played around in that world of creating a product that may be a little more expensive than what people are expecting when they look at a a shelf full of other beer But it's been pretty clear that if the product is good and people want it then. They're okay with that on occasion to buy that. It's not going to be there everyday thing but I think that's what that's also part of. What makes you special? Is that everyone of your beers. Feels special when you when you open it up even if it's fin or spyglass or whatever it is one of those beers you can describe a six pack in crush while you're mowing the grass. It's still feels different than anything else. That is that is on the shelf around it. Which is a really hard thing to do in a really difficult line to tell Especially in a world right. Now we're all hell is breaking loose and Bugle don't know what to do and it's you guys somehow just keep making it work and feel natural and I don't know how you do it because it's you know you. I'm sure you heard it from day. One people told you that this whole idea couldn't work in a city like Cincinnati and yet much everything keeps working. We're family even with that crazy. Sour Green know who drinks our beer for the first year. We were going or distributors like you guys need to make. Ipa You need to make an NBA. You know we're not doing that So we did end up making the phonology but like we're not making just a standard I and it didn't work because it's not ultimately what you're saying is it comes down to authenticity of our brand and like our wild. Ip didn't work because it's not really. What our brand was in our sour. Ipa's didn't work because that's not really. What a brand was. I was so proud of gas light. Beer was great for what it was but at the end of the day people just want real fruit sour beer from us. And that's it so we'll do the good thing too is there's there's millions of fruits out there or whatever so we got plenty of opportunity. Plenty of fun things we constantly do. We got the double retort line network spanning. I just bought a new tank last week. Got Installed on Friday. I think I saw it sitting behind the brewery when I drove by the other day. Wow everybody else's terrified about everything and you've got a new tank sitting in. Let's let's talk about that just a little bit too. You guys were very open and communicating with everybody when people noticed spyglass had a different state written on the label. And you talk about contract brewing and kind of the decisions that went into Into that side of things and instead of dumping a bunch of money in the her barring a bunch of money to create You know the space to be able to keep growing the way you guys were. It made more sense to contract brew. Thank God. I've talked to a couple of places that you know Sandra was on the show maybe a month or so ago and talked about how the week before all this happened. They were about ready to push the button to order a bunch new fermenters and have any fermenters and thank God and like. There's there are several other places that have been Doing a little bit of contract brewing Even if it's just on a local level I don't think they want to talk about it yet but Thank God like that's just these little decisions can affect so much and I don't know if it's just pure absolute luck that it's worked out the way it has or if you guys have some kind of crystal ball or what but it just seems to work out exactly like it should for you guys. Well this was all design. Lake the contract thing this. That's exactly why we want. The contract brewing. Route was our first two years of business the debt we had to take on to even start. The company almost crushed us with the monthly payments. And we're like we're not doing that again. This market is getting crazy. Saturated Breweries everywhere contract brewing. Pricing is an all time low. The stigmas basically gone with that. There's some hold onto think contract. Burs can't do a good job. I'll tell you what those guys that occupy can probably make beer better than I can. Because they've stayed the art equipment so like they have every single toy I ever wanted I can implement and us and telling how to brew exactly how brew if I had my dream system so to me. It's perfect and then if there is an issue like the pandemic then you stop contract brewing. I'm out no money. I have. What immature had rude? But like that's it and so for us. Our business went down forty percents overnight with the on premise stuff. But my business grew fifty percent with the contract during so. I just stopped contract brewing at full capacity. Still in my house so. I'm still making all my payments. I'm still doing well financially when we're sitting pretty in my heart really goes out to places like Wolf's Ridge who just bought that big ASS fucking facility from or string that close your capacity for like twenty thousand barrels. There's no way they're making twenty thousand barrels right now not during this so like shit. That stuff's not free in like banks. What their money like. They might be nice for a couple of months. But eventually those chickens are gonNA come home to roost in the the the. The market's GonNa Bounce back right away so I feel pretty good about the contract thing and as soon as things open back up and once we're showing positive growth again we're going to. We'll go right back to contract brewing. I don't see any reason not to. I agree one hundred percent I am. I know that there are probably breweries in town. That wish they had done that. More than what what they did. And it's it's terrifying to think about this overall scene and the places immeasurable surridge. There are plenty of places that are similar to that that have expanded because it made sense Because Business said that's what you were supposed to do and now they're looking at it and they've gotta be sweating a little bit. I don't know I don't know what things are going to look like when we return back to some kind of normalcy. What are how? How do we bounce back from this? What does this look like? In in your opinion well I mean we. Don't that's the thing we just. We don't bounce back it's not. It will never be the same like it'll be so long until the same again anyone who is planning their business around it being back to quote unquote normal within a year is going to have a real hard time if these places aren't planning like on premise when it comes back isn't like twenty five percent of what it was they're gonNA struggle. It's always safer. It's always safer to plan and bet on things not getting better and then if things do get better. That's just an easy win for you but if things don't get better there's just no like if you're planning on getting better and that's the only thing that's GonNa Save Your Business and you're like you're just totally fucked. You already screwed to shut down now so I don't know the specifics what I what I can tell you. What we're GONNA do is is. We're going to our whole strategy up to this. Point was slow. Growth Focus on education focused on customer understanding. Don't sell our product into places where it doesn't belong so we can have retailers in bar staff and servers who like our products to sell it. And that's really helped us the first five years. Get to a point where people do understand what we're doing and understand our beers and wire products are at a premium and all that good stuff. We did all that by not focusing on chain placement so not getting more kroger stores open not getting more gas stations. Open not getting a lot of these other stores where you really start moving volume open. We've been getting to the volume that we're getting at like ten thousand barrels just through focusing on independence but unfortunately that's hurting us. Now because all these independents are closing are slowing down and most of the beer growth is going through chain so it sucks for us right now but my plan and Scotties plan once we reopen is going to be doubled down on the chain side of things. Keep our strategy in place on the saturation with the Independent. But we really need to get that chain placement going to take us to the next level so that that's that's our current plan and that if that's the case on premise could never regain for us but we should be able to see enough gains through off premise consumption in customers that it'll take us to the next level regardless it's just it's such a different world. I mean you talk about the the brute fruit tarts which are so hard to describe what they are and even in even in a store that is You know you know the store that's closest to me that I do a lot of my shopping at their tucked away on a shelf with all the other beer which is the worst spot in the world for them to be because people over there looking for beer and people are looking for wine or if you're looking for wine and it needs to be right in the middle of these things or have somebody that is there explaining to everybody what these things are and that doesn't happen in chains. That doesn't happen. In these big places. There is no person walking around him. The Beer Department explaining things to people teaching people educating their you. The consumers even aren't browsing in the beer department in hanging out you know like you don't have the conversation happening around the products and I think for you guys even for your you know your your normal stuff it. There's a conversation that happens around it. That makes makes it what it is. It's not just a beer. That's on a shelf. It's it's something around that and I think that that's really tough to imagine on a on a kroger shelf or whatever it is and how that how that translates not that you won't figure it out because I have you know I have lots of faith in what you guys do. And it'll be interesting to see what products are more popular in places like that versus an independent story ultimately for us. I mean you're right. You're a hundred percent right. It's super impressionable. People don't give it much time or thought they kind of blast through and they look for something that they know or catches your eye and grab it and go so for us. It's GonNa be it's GonNa be just doubling down on the same tactics marketing wise. That has always worked for us in that we don't really ever have anything with marketing. And our whole thing is always liquid to lips. I am a thousand percent confident on making the best liquids for what we're doing in the country if not the world depending on what review site you look at our ratings It's there were doing it. And what's always worked for us is get people to try the product? Then they like it then they become buyers and we see a strong level of customer loyalty to because. There's not a lot of people doing what we're doing now. A lot of people making these over fruited dry sours at the price points. Were making him either. Hyper expensive like gesture king. Which is amazing beers but very expensive or like they're fake flavorings and their cheap just fucking bullshit loggers with blueberry flavor. Yatom or whatever. So we're in this weird thing where customers don't know what we are but as soon as they try it they like it. So our whole plan is get in there more keep consistent with what we're offering so get more gadget chain placement get spyglass out there and get the goes out there and then just sample the shit out of our beers just setup samplings every fucking week and just hammered hammered hammered and hopefully word of mouth takes it. Because that's really been the only thing we're good at no no offense to Hannah who was our new marketing person. We hired in January. She's been doing amazing but we have not had any marketer before that ever And we just thankfully liquid sells itself. So that's their whole goal. Get liquid and people will buy the product. Well that's what's so crazy as you know when when if I sat down with a lot of family members that I have a lot of the older generation and things like that and mentioned that you guys make sour beer. They would turn up there and I was like. Oh God I don't like that stuff. I just give me give my little kings or my burger. Whatever you know. That's that's what they want. But if you put a key punch in front of them and have them drink it they're gonNA frigging love that beer and that's like it's so hard to communicate that to people unless you just pour it down their mouth what is it about the buber aged white male. That's so hesitant about sour fruit beer and then when they try fucking luck every person. You're right it's crazy. It's probably the same thing. That's wrong with me and Seltzer. It's like it's not that I don't enjoy drinking the product and the right situation. It's that I don't want to you know what really sold me. On the fact that soldiers are never going away. Was I want to a friend? Befriends Thirtieth Birthday Party. So there's people there from age like twenty seven to thirty two The only fucking beers at this party fifty people. They're literally the only beers there or seltzer in blocking sour beer. I swear to God that was like all sorts of different sours. All sorts of different sensors. But there wasn't a fucking anywhere to be seen that just like set in stone in my mind like once soldiers are never going away into sour. Beers are going to come. And they're gonNA stick around and we haven't even come close to peaking yet where soured can be in this country. It's going to be a monolithic beer. Category in another ten years I th. I agree one hundred percent. I I look at some of the styles that are around to be at the pastry stoute's or whatever it is and they're popular people are going nuts about him but it's it's a trend. It's like a thing that it it's not like not that they won't be around but they'll be like the black guy. Pa where the other still here. But they're not a a contender in this the this overall market. I don't see that with sour beer. I think I would have answered that differently before you guys opened I think is Saul Sour beer as a as a trendy type of drink not. I didn't like it. I just didn't think it had the Not Not that. It didn't have the staying power because it obviously does. It's been around forever but But it I would have. I would have put it in a very different category than what I do. Now I think that Sour beer which in itself is a broad category Stands bright alongside loggers. Or you know again. That's not fair. Because Lager. Such a huge. See where I'm going with it though it stands as as a an actual segment of beer. Not just a small little offshoot style thing that people drink because it's it's trendy it's hard to get or it's fun or whatever it is. It's it's a real thing I told you this already before. But the higher gravity tracks their bestselling products are by stylistic category and basically every month since they opened its as by Ed massive margin always Ip as IPA's sell better for them Dollar wise at anything else number one category but in July of Twenty nineteen the number one category sours Sour Beer outsold every single other style beer in their entire story. Even as and if that's not telling of change come Greenwich Anecdotal Data Point the Holy Shit. That's crazy. It's also not fair because that's right in the middle of pickle and keypunch season even today so I was at the grocery store this morning. Doing my weekly shopping trip with my mask on a has a majestic eagle on it. It's fantastic you'll you'll love seeing me in public with this thing And I was in the Beard Department and I was grabbing a couple Couple of six packs of stuff and there was a a family. They're shopping. Which number one don't shop with your family go by yourself with that. I've said but And they were looking and they were looking for a a beer and they were looking in the little tiny cold case that the jungle gyms has and there was like one six pack of urban beer in there and it was I don't see spyglass or something like that and I go. That's not it and I said well you guys looking for urban they say. Nsa Yeah it's IT'S. It's around the corner. I showed him where it was and they were kind of looking and you could tell. They weren't finding what they wanted. And you're looking for something specific. She's yeah it's my son's birthday and he really likes this pickle via fantastic but you gotta wait until the summer people pickles. That much is crazy. People I don't think people like tickles that much that I still don't think people like pickles that yeah. I don't know what it is about that beer but I think even people that don't like pickles fall in love with what that beer is it's crazy. It's really crazy but you know those. Those are things that you can't really predict they're things that just You create something and it's fun and people go nuts and it sticks around you can't build your business on something like that if you wanna stay in the long term but when it happens it feels real good right. What are some of the things that have happened like that for you guys that you you didn't anticipate that just people latched onto Well there's a lot of negatives ones where I thought people would do that. Didn't like the wild or Cezanne's like clothesline. Remember that beer but I love that and I think the Midwest retards obviously but that's spawned its whole other thing and it's not quite the same server as like equal is I think the only other thing that really stands close to pickle and it's not in terms of volume just in terms of how much people get excited about it and love. It is probably the Halloween Beers Both of which the Halloween Beers and pickle start as joke and they both are really a big thing and the Halloween Beers. We didn't do them this past year. Because it's so much labor intensive work for us and we just couldn't handle it but yeah that that was the other one that we really see people get super excited about and it's a lot of fun when someone drinks toothpaste flavored beer. See Their reaction. I think the most fun about the Halloween Beer's not just getting the the twelve pack and going home. It's the fact that you can get the bucket of the beers there in the taproom. Sit around the table with you. Know three or four. Your friends back home. We could do that and and just like drinking through them all and like you know that first person to try one and watching their face and seeing if it's something that's good or something that's bad or something that's confusing or you know and then that argument of what is it so much but it's something that gets lost so much with craft beer these days is that act of sitting around a table and sharing beer and just like laughing about it and trying things. That aren't good trying things that you told like just experimenting and playing around with stuff that People take this all too seriously now at the end of the day and I know it's not fair for me to say this because I am not in the business. I don't have my livelihood wrapped up in it but it is just beer at the end of the day. This is beer. It's something that is just. It's so much it's supposed to be so much fun and It's really easy. Sometimes to get caught up in all this other bullshit that surrounds it and forget that we're just drinking beer together. And that's that's a really important thing within culture within might be might be a little too high horse to say but but in humankind like this act of sitting around and drinking. The other is so important. Do you think would get that back after this stuff dies down. I do but I think I think. The tables get bicker. We just don't sit as close together but we are you. You can't take it away. It can't go away even even this act of people sitting in having virtual happy hour's over zoom is just as desperate attempt to try to hang on to that of drinking together. It doesn't go. You can't take it away from people the we're all a bunch of drunks at heart. It will come back. I don't know I don't know when we'll come back. You Miss Drinking at the bar. I miss it so much. I didn't know how big of a part of my life it until all of this happened. I just we're already to kill each other in this house. What about on the The industry side do you. Do you see the Camaraderie and friendliness. Like I feel like existed really strongly like four or five years ago. Do you think that comes back stronger too? I think I think this is a reminder to people of what it's all about the people that were starting to get a little a little too hoity toity. Now it's a smack in the back of the head and be like remember what this is. This is really about like you know at at any moment all hell could break loose and you can still make that phone call of the people down the street from you and say do. What do I do that? That still exists. And it's a reminder that it's and again just scrapping of what craft beer was this brings us back to that and And kinda straightens us out a little bit and I don't mean to the play you know with at lightheartedly because I know that there are a lot of people that are gonNA be hurting really bad after all of this but or just don't exist after all of this and that you know that sucks and I don't like that side of what this is but again. I think that this will be good for the industry and I think that this will be good for beer at some point the opposite when I asked you that question but after hearing you say that I I think you're right actually been like there. It is tragic that we're GONNA lose a lot of burris because of this but there's something to be said about shared intense even if it's intensely bad experience that I think you're right. It's GonNa Bring the breweries that survive. I think it's going to bring them back together closer than we were at the beginning of this. An even if a brewery doesn't survive so if and this is a terrible hypothetical if you lost your brewery tomorrow it completely. It didn't work you guys you guys you shut down. Would you just completely leave beer? Would you never make another beer in your life now beers my passion? I immediately look for John and beer. Exactly do anything else. I think that even the places that shut down. You're not that's not the last you'll hear from these people. If they have that passion behind it which I I still firmly believe that the majority of people in this industry have that passion. I've been a few that don't but you know I think the majority do. Yeah you're right there's going to be banned is GONNA be. There's GonNa be a lot of really good experienced. Brewers out there looking for jobs when this is all done and there's going to be a lot of cheap equipment out there when this is done to. Which are the bad things in which they come from? But they're good things for those who who make it through right I guess bad for equipment suppliers but I think that the writings been on the wall for them for a little while that they needed to To be ready for something to happen. there's been a lot of cheap equipment around for a while. That's that's what happens We'll get there. Will I think things will be all right now? You it. It's a roller coaster for me. You asked me right now. I'm really optimistic. But that's because I'm drinking midwest for Tarts in But I th I I will get there. We will get everybody. You know the the the cheesy thing to say right now is that we'll get through it together. We will though like that's that's so true through all of us we'll get through it together. That's in your show. Good one. I always found What do you want people to know about urban artifacts today that you think they don't know I can be Brusque until you know me so I apologize to anyone. That was an asshole to even get possible. But if you're not familiar with our brand like I said like we were talking about earlier. Ten MINUTES AGO. Just try the beer. It's everything we do is just real fruit. It's all sour beer. But you wouldn't think you don't think wine sour and you're not gonNA think our our beer sour just nothing but good shit on we're trying to be as transparent honest as we can make the best possible beer. We can at the best price I can sell that. I know it might seem like a high price but the value for our products is just. It's something I've been proud of. Since the first day we opened. I think we do a really good job. A world class level product for an extremely affordable price. I guess that's it. It's it's fantastic stuff. I definitely vouch for almost every urban artifact beer. I've had toothpaste. Maybe not but I really love what you guys are doing. And you continuously. Just keep impressing me with what those what that next thing is. And I can't wait to see what the future has. Four a place like urban artifact and for what you do to this industry around you you are spawning a new generation of people that think about things differently and that's a very valuable thing that we're going to reap the benefits for reap the benefits of for years to come so it's quick side note. We should link up again around Christmas time because we're going hard this year on Christmas beers again. Fantastic I'm all about that. We Will I. I assume that we'll see each other before Christmas. Although I don't know if the baby in my house I might just be like hold up in the corner sobbing for the next. How many months? That's what's so messed up about. All of this is that I was ready once the baby came to have to do some shows. Hold up in the basement like this. I was ready for that. It was ready for taking a couple of weeks where I wasn't able to go to tapper. Men Sit at the bar and have a beer with people was ready for it. I wasn't ready for it to happen in March and soon as it starts going back to some kind of normalcy right when this babies here and I wasn't ready for six months of my life to be spent in the basement but here we are. We are here we are. That's the that's my motto. These days breath. Thank you very much Thank you for creating these fears that I absolutely love and keep up the good work and if anybody has not had urban whose lawsuit showed that hasn't been artifact but you can get it delivered right to doorstep. Just get on their website. There's a store and there's lots of really good shit on their immediate rate to near doorstop since he progressed the voices.

Seltzer Ohio United States Cincinnati Beer Department ABC burris Kiwi Pa Jackie O Glarus UNFOR- Moon Midwest CINCY Colin Baker Razzie Alex. beard
Episode 259 "THE RIGHT TO VOTE CARRIES MEANING FEW REALIZE."

Native Opinion Podcast an American Indian Perspective

2:56:16 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 259 "THE RIGHT TO VOTE CARRIES MEANING FEW REALIZE."

"How with This side on save. To these things you knew. there. Was a deep quite. Another Saturday You've reached native opinion. We are an indigenous information and education radio show and podcast every week we talk about current affairs related to and from our own native American perspectives, monuments, Michael kicking bear, and the guy in the other end of this of course he is. David, Grill Good Morning. Welcome to Saturday's show. Yes and I apologies to any live audience that's listening or forty five minutes late again. But. Not a problem brought. This week was just credibly busy on my end. even even even not appearing on the Wednesday show I. Just you know it was just very very obvious that you know that was a good move. For me but. Still still late today apologized for that brother. Not. Hence you own land of standard you guys so. hiking, reach us here on the show if you would like to. Either now while we broadcast this, if you go to native opinion dot COM. Homepage there is an audio player there and there's a little chat bubble that you can use to join us here in chat. There's also instructions right below the player Explains. How do that? Morning investors joins US good morning both yeah. Okay You can also email US hosts with an S. hosts at native opinion, Dot Com. You can reach us out at twitter. It's at native opinion out there are facebook page it's facebook dot com forward slash native opinion podcast. And our web site as I just mentioned native opinion dot COM we're also podcast so you can find us through any of the major podcast directories and subscribe there. It's totally free and you can also leave a voice mail it's eight, six, zero, eight, hundred, five, five, nine, five, eight, six, zero. Eight. Hundred Five, five, nine, five, that's the number they're. Absolutely. Always a good way to reach US Libo. Spinal. Thank you, brother. As. You know we produce a podcast twice a week and we have a live show on Saturday today. And we thank you for listening and we want our listeners to know we appreciate the support we received from you and you guys support us greatly and we do appreciate that. And the financial support received goes directly toward cost and expenses associated with producing the show. And, those expenses are things like website and podcast hosting music licensing, content development, and curation daily business operations, marketing advertisement, and more. Please please please join other wonderful folks who have contributed to this show by becoming a patron. Details are on our. Native Opinion Dot. com. Forward Slash support page. And on our facebook page and you can just click on the learn more button. And we do have. Patrons that have been with us since the beginning of our program and I WANNA ask that. If there's anyone that has not received. their promotional items. Please send us an email. So, we can spine out what happened to them and get them out to you. It was a it would have been an oversight on. Somebody's behalf I. Hopefully, it's not mine, but the man has been horrible. The male is horrible from this end so I'm going to. Say that it didn't. Go out or. Didn't get delivered if the mail it's horrible. please. Let me know if you did not receive it. Someone mentioned to me last week that they never received something that I mailed out to them. Three months ago and it was mailed out registered return receipt Oh and it just never made it. So please please please send me an email or send my brother in email and let us know. And I will take a look and see where that item may be if I can track it. And if I can't track it, then I will send it out to you once again. And hopefully, you'll get it post-haste without any more delay. Stuff right now is. A hassle and a half I think. It is it's election year and everything else. So yeah, Kinda. Took good morning to you. How good to see you again. Good morning, how that went to reboot her computer or her device. Okay and another way to share the show it's to tell the people about. That's always a great method of advertisement word of mouth. Absolutely. Yeah. We appreciate it. Absolutely and you're listening to episode two, five, nine the right to vote carries meaning few realize. It is it is. In. Thank you. Guys are all the different ways honestly everything that you do you know. Because of you, we are here seriously. And you know be it financially if you're supporting us that way or if you're sharing the show always good in in we truly mean that another great way of course is You can visit our sponsor to it's Mohegan trading posts they make final Fintech Mohegan handmade craft in beadwork, ribbon shirts, all kinds of great stuff there including masks right now during covid nineteen. And and so by visiting them, and if you purchase anything there, you know they, of course, find value in in the advertising that they are doing our show. So we do appreciate their support as well as your support in all the various different ways. So again, it's Mohegan Trading Post Dot Com. We thank you very much for advertising here at absolutely. Absolutely. Great great sponsor for sure. All right. So Beth is back and says, now she can hear us that's great. Oh good. Anybody else wants to join US please chat room is open and appears to be working. So that's a good thing. Got To kind of break the tradition here just a little bit and. Fat Okay with your brother. That's fine. going to do as I said something a little different. I want to pay tribute to one of the greatest guitarist that has ever lived in my view. Eddie van Halen. Who died earlier this week of cancer. And I like many grew up listening to van. Halen While, yes, there is probably literally no connection of that. I'm aware of of that band or Eddie to Indian country. I just wanted to pay respect to the talent, the raw talent if you will that Eddie possessed. Institute a Son Wolf and Eddie's family the band and of course. We're joining millions of fans around the world and just wanted to play this tribute to. Again Guitar Great, Mr Eddie, Van Halen our way of saying goodbye he would go. You. Sydney. Bird. A. Building. There you go. Back. Laura. Rest in peace heady, then hill and He influenced so many people in the music world so many people. Other. Other people just inspired great. You know. Great, artists. And so big loss big mcglasson music world this week so. Yeah if I tried to do that with my fingers, they'd have to call the Medico. That was just a small extent example man you know. His his his Co. changes were you know? Just like like he invented the Flying Corps change. It was insane. What he could do could not read any music too by the way. Eddie van Halen could not read a -LICA- music. So it just broadens that that That scope of talent so All right. So with that. Let's move into listener fees. Feedback. Absolutely first piece of listener feedback from. Listener Lee Good Morning Lee Lee. Ben. He's hunkering down I would I would imagine. Says, hello again, I, am sorry I have not been in touch. That's okay. Things have spiked again and the UK, and we can only mix in six. Howard things there. Well Lee they're on the upswing again. Up here as well unfortunately. And I am holding my own sir. Thank you for asking. Still have some. Rocky days but most days are better and it seems black the. Rocky days are becoming fewer and fewer. So I'm thankful for that just trying to avoid people. For. Reasons. Not, stated, don't need to state them. And? I'm hoping that you all out there stay safe as well. and. He goes on to say our congregation still zooming together on a weekly basis that keeps people safe and he says, we are also home teaching our children as we feel it is the safest thing to to do. Absolutely. And he says, how is the studio Michael is all fixed now? Pretty much It needs a coat of paint. On the wall that was repaired and have my. My Stepson to thank for all the work he did on on the inside wall here so in. Just. Still needs to be vacuumed on that side a little bit and restore the. Green screen and bet it's just folded over. It's it's still there. So I just gotten. So involved since going back to work I, haven't had a moment to to just throw on some music like we just heard. And others and can good native music. And Start Rolling, the roller against the wall there and get the get the paint done so. But but beyond that yeah, it's it's fine. new carpet is down we've. Tried to take care of the water problem but that's still something needs to be fixed but we'll get that taken care of just. Monitor it, and as we've been saying Connecticut is in a major drought right now. So we have not had really much rain. We're all cut our fingers crossed. That was just in my My Apple Watch just went off telling me that Delta is the the hurricane known as Delta just hit. Louisiana which they did not need is now attract tropical depression. It's what we're hoping that some of that remnants will make its way here. May Get a an inch or two of rain out of that. So We shall see it's Kinda crazy. You know because I live fifty minutes from the ocean and yet. We have wells that are drying up here. So, Not that I I, WanNa Hurricane Slam the side of Connecticut but but at the same time, we honestly need that water. So beyond that yeah, it's great and and we're still forging four show so. Good evening SAISD to and speak soon my brothers. Lee Thank you for reaching out to it's good to hear from you. When day one day please send some audio. Absolutely used to send these. Amazing. Send. Some really cool stuff. He Eh does. It would mimic radio stations and things like. It was pretty funny. But okay. All right We have a email here from listener. And Jason rights. asya gentlemen been enjoying the podcast since about May. Personally can't claim to be any of gives me be of any indigenous tribe as even when I was told I'm part Cherokee and he guesses which stereotype. That family member was never to be a reliable source, of information. That being said he did open an interest in researching the history cultures etc of native tribes. All. Of It intrigues me more than this government ever did. Not, that the only thing I tend to obsess over but I digress. Recently came across news of a hateful preacher. WHO's a well known for his anti LGBT? Stance Steve Anderson. Being on the newest insane clown posse album. After correcting someone's comment about is p being death metal. When they're hardcore rap, which is very true. Somebody. Somebody classified clown posse as death metal. I don't even know who the. Maybe maybe later I'll I'll try to dig up something on Youtube but. They're definitely not metal. No no way. Not even close. All right. He said some hard court. trumpster I guess made that assertion. Instead of talking about Anderson being on a hardcore. Album to mock his preaching or John Collections this guy gives a whip lash says. In what is suppose is a condescending tone quote. I know we can count on you to make America great again and vote for trump close quote. I told them to never make the mistake of thinking I'll be like him that I'm voting for a native American. Clearly he hated that. Like an S J W he screamed that Indians can't do anything good for themselves that. One were elected president. They would all run America into the ground. Just laugh at this guy. Okay. Not Not not Jason but the guys talking about. I'm guessing he's afraid if one were elected leader I'll tribes would be would force all white men out of the nation more like. Get Out. Actually what would happen is we would request rent. Immediately. Every. And papers and papers yes Jeremy Off. A. So much fun messing with them. Anyway. I told them do research on native American culture and history. Then I told him that one of the pastors of my church is Mohawk and one of his daughters is in the army started training last year. Therefore, she's more of a man than him. He hasn't responded in a couple of weeks. No I suspect he wouldn't. Jason goes on to say I grew up with the idea that racism was dead. But how strong feeling in the eighth grade that it was hibernating even though people thought that was silly. I'm sad to see every day. My suspicions were right as i. told that trumpster quote Allston with the Navy's before I. I ever call myself though like view close quote. He says God, bless you both sincerely Jason. Jason. We appreciate that and and and also we commend your you know. Your strength and To stand up in front of in front of these guys that type of individual by the way you got just. Four warning because we've already seen this. In a limited sense and some of the states that have begun voting. early voting. They're calling what are they calling them brother poll-watcher whole watchers right which is, which is just an excuse for these racist, a holes to show up and and if you. I don't know if if somehow they've identified you to be voting for you know Mark Charles or Biden. They they insist on mocking you and in some cases it's turned violent I can tell you from my perspective I won't swing. I. But if I pushed, your ass is going down to the ground okay. If you're trump supporter. Because you know and yeah okay if I have to spend a night in jail. to defend my beliefs, I will do so and they can say the same thing I imagine but I'm on the correct side. Of. The issues. But that's that's how they're playing this. They're. Getting in your face. if you're. Not. You know spouting this belief system that everything has to be lily white if you will. in this country. When in fact? That isn't the way it is. Unfortunately You know we we have. Seen this growth of empowerment by. Racist individuals because of the the current federal administration. So just serve food for thought, do not let these people stop you from voting. You're not let them intimidate you. It is not cowardly by the way against this was another thing that's come out is not cowardly to mail in your vote. Or drop your vote off if if your town has made provision. For you to get your ballot to them without having the US the United States Postal Service. So I just want to. Mention that to you guys that that. It's important. So. It is important step myself now. I'll step off my soap box now. Know. It truly is important. Won't say good morning to Aurora and return viewers guide in cliff. Welcome welcome welcome. Up Everyday, sorry had to take. Problem. Continuing on with our listener feedback. This comes towards from Listener Robert. I'm going to preface this with this. Robert. If you could to send me a little verification as to who passed this onto you, I would appreciate it. he goes on to say I was listening to you guys talk about vaccines and one of your older twenty twenty episodes. going. To offer you a little perspective he says that was. Only recently passed to me. The immune system is usually pretty good at dealing with incursions. Encouragement Kate. But can't find anything doesn't know. It I has to encounter the bacteria or virus. Part of the reason, the mass cope with Kobe, teen actually because the virus doesn't seem to cause much trauma on the host if it's Exposure is minimal. So, even the weaker. I'm sorry. So even the where he gets the disease. It minimizes the amount of it when they're exposed to. Giving the immune system time to encounter it. In. Smaller amounts and fight it off. I can't brother I can't. This. HAS TO DO WITH A lot of things. Vaccines are important. That's been proven throughout history. and. Vaccines take time to develop. Herd. Immunity. Does Not work in this case folks. Herd immunity does not work in this case folks. Herd immunity does not work in this case folks. The herd mentality is what got us into this position that we're in with over two hundred, ten thousand debts in this country. Correct. Herd. Mentality. And maybe we should. You know there's just in case someone's not familiar with that terminology. We should explain what that is. Hurried mentality. Yes. But it might be people that don't haven't heard. No you're absolutely correct. Okay. Herd mentality is a fool in the White House's idea of. The country back up and everybody will just mad at magically get you know better better because everybody's sharing antibodies by rubbing shoulders and what have you and spitting on each other not literally. But. That's herd mentality. In some instances in the animal kingdom. And production farms. Yes hurried mentality works for animals. This is a pre pandemic talking about here. Herd mentality has already killed more people in this country than should have died. Because of misinformation. Herd. Immunity is not going to work for people. We're not animals. Trying to read a little more. This technique says why people generally don't get the same strain of flu or cold twice. Before, continue. Robert this. This is nothing against you. Sir I you know put. So please don't don't take offense to it. It's what someone has shared with you as information is what I'm responding to. It's not yourself. So please please don't take event. Goes on to say this technique why people generally don't get the same strain of flu or kohls twice while Again. People in India the same strain of flu twice or the same cold twice I know it's happened to me. At one point. You brought up how we still don't have vaccine for the cold. So how could we have one for covid nineteen? The simple answer is that big Pharma is not interested in vaccines. We. Probably couldn't couldn't have had vaccines for a lot of things in this world, but the vaccine keeps people from getting sick. What backseat designed to do? By the way that comes referring to actually came from me because I do remember myself saying that. So I just want to. Just want to add that brother that I'm the one who said you know we don't have. With me I was making the assertion. That because some I mean now mon- much many months later, the news media finally do me a better job about defining. Strains under corona virus and at the time I was talking about. We. Don't have a vaccine for the common cold, which is yet a different strain of coronavirus. Creek that was what I was referring to at that time. So just everybody's clear. Okay. Sorry. I'm done. That's okay. And the comment goes on by saying. So by creating the vaccine, they eliminate their customer base would bid former once. It's medications and antibiotics that people have to keep using. I don't think there is a single back seen. that. Wasn't subsidized by the government and charities. Well, most vaccine subsidies come from the taxpayers. Correct that's where most of the vaccine subsidies come from. Too much charities but more so. Taxpayers, once in a while, you'll have a charity like the Gates Foundation. Gets involved but rarely. All right. So about bill and Melinda Gates Foundation Right. Stop. Right there. So. When you speak of government, you're talking about tax payer funded subsidies. He goes on to say I. Haven't looked in that specifically but the fact is that in many cases, there is very little profit to be had from vaccines. There's tons of profit from vaccine's. Tons of profit. So. Pharmaceutical companies don't even try unless they are being paid in the first place. He goes on to say having said that they're not really doing much to hide the fact that this vaccine is a rush job. No, they're not hiding that. You're absolutely correct. Most vaccines trigger trigger, what they call sterile immunity. Which makes them around ninety, five, ninety, nine, percent effective if I remember correctly. With this vaccine research, they said they'd be happy with more than fifty percent. The FDA said, they'd approve that and it seems nearly everyone who has been in the trials that really sick after the second objection. Being one of them. I'm sorry to hear that she got really sick but that goes right to what I was saying about people that are backs vaccinated against the flu can get the same strain of flu again. They vaccines that people get during a current flu season is not the vaccine that you're being vaccinated against for the current flew. It has passed. Strains of flu virus that you being backs native with not the current string. That's what I try to get. People to understand. It is not not ever current strain of flu virus that people are vaccinated against. I should say and there's logic to that I don't personally take the food. For a number of reasons but but anyway, I won't I won't go into them again but. But that that that that is true because the logic is that you have to have time to test. Correct on a current Europe you will a current strain then it's released and so if that's stream crops itself back up right Now you have something. That Will fight it. But at least that is the that is the theory so. Very, but anyway, sorry. No that's quite okay. Hang on one second. All right. So But Anyway in the meantime. So. The thing with vaccines. People. Nine Times out of ten don't understand. Development. There the need to have them. And what they're capable of doing. And I'm speaking from my scientific head. And my medical head when I say this. and. That's why people wind up getting vaccinated with things that they shouldn't be. Truly. There's really no need. To vaccinate people with. Past strains of flu virus. Here's why I say that. If they didn't get the past strain. Or strains of flu virus and they maintain. Good hygiene and they stay relatively healthy. If, they had not got the past flu virus from the previous season. They're not GonNa get it in the in the in the current season. That is just the probability. Less they are exposed to a large amount. which is called reload. Of that past flu strain from somebody that did catch it. So. I all for vaccines. To some degree. I'm all for vaccines. Polio's a good example. That that was one of the greatest vaccines that it was that was ever developed. But there are some vaccines like these. Flu Vaccines. I won't call them totally useless. But I will call some of them dangerous. Because of all the preservatives that included in those vaccines to keep those viral strains whether their weekender dead. From degrading. This vaccine that they're working on for COVID. Got A LONG WAY TO GO FOLKS A long way to go. and. They're going to use people as Guinea pigs to try to speed up the process. And it's going to do more harm than good. That's my opinion. I'm sticking to. Robert Thank you for your information and your feedback. Like I said, please don't take this personal. This had nothing to do with you. It's all the information that's floating around out there. That is giving people the wrong information. About what they should be doing And how they should be confronting this this things like this virus this is a pandemic. This isn't an outbreak it's a pandemic. Thing. What bothers me too is the fact that they're coupling bad information deliberately. Oh. Sure to justify not wearing a mask. Sure and to justify. Reopening the country sure and we're now of course seeing. Spikes now, my state here in Connecticut. Has. I'm saying this with some caution but has enjoyed. The lowest infection rates in the country But because of the behavior of states that. Surround US immediately as well as farther out west. There now, affecting us on our rates are starting to go up why because a transient people? People coming to the state and visiting because they came from another state even even with the. You know policies in place such as they have to quarantine for fourteen days in contact tracing in place you know to you know do the best they can to ensure that people are doing that but. It's not perfect. And so if there are people that are that have. Gotten sick an rr Arnaud aware of it because as symptomatic. Rates are bound to go up. And so. You know that this is this is kind of the reality of this thing and because there is no sound like a broken record, but I can't help it because there is no national strategy. Being either enforced or continuously advocated for. and. No I don't believe Mike Pence. Whatsoever. it in a few notice, for example. You know the the so-called cove in Nineteen team that he heads up. You saw familiar faces for a number of months early on you saw in particular obviously Dr. vouching. And you saw Dr Barber. Burke. Well. You haven't seen those two very often. Have you do you know why? Because, they have taken it upon themselves to be responsible and do advocacy without them. Because they had no choice. Because every time, they tried to give you guys proper information the White House shot it down. So they had to go out on their own in essence against the grain. To deliver the right information. And it's not a left wing conspiracy it's about trying to protect people. So you know that this is why. Making health, a political issue is so dangerous. Correct because worst proof that two, hundred and ten thousand dead. That's why. So. You're absolutely correct and the sad thing is. I'm sorry that's my point I'm telling. Ya. And the sad thing is because it was made political. Because it was made political. People are not. Willing To Understand, that You know wanting. The masses at lives to be healthy is not a conspiracy. For someone to think that, you know trying to keep you know thousands of people from dying is a conspiracy. With. That person's thought process. If you think that's a conspiracy. Go get some help. No, really. If. You think trying to keep thousands of people from dying. If you think that's a conspiracy. Go get some help. Please The cliffs shared two links as April get. Links are working for me now. One. Comes from looks like companies called Stat News Dot. com. says. The race to develop covid nineteen vaccines could well see some Americans vaccinated before the end of twenty, twenty two. Less than a year after the world I learned of new viruses was causing a dangerous new form of. Pneumonia in China. The design testing and mass production of multiple vaccines have never been attempted on this type of timeline making this moment in a turning point in the development of vaccines to respond to new disease threats, but the complexity of that work may pale in comparison to. Next. The rollout of hundreds of millions of doses of never before used vaccines across the United States and eventually around the world. Expect. snafus. Confusion. Despite the best intentions and months of painstaking planning to figure out how to get vaccines to people in an ethical order. Doing. So is going to be a Gargantuan and sometimes messy task. Sure on talked about this before about how they've already pre prepped millions and I'm not even exaggerate millions of files. That may all be useless? because. It has to be properly tested and vetted. How do they do that? Human testing trials. You. Know. We, we've had you know. Very good feedback from. Other, listeners was listener in Canada for example, that told the importance of human testing right? So. But it has to be done the right way. And that's what you're not hearing out of Washington. No of course not just. Going to be. In member whenever you do trump you guys. This is a requirement you have to put your hands out in front of you at a forty five degree angle. Like a penguin. That's going to be a virus is GONNA come at the end of November. Okay. So. All right. Well. What bothers me so much about the Virus trials these vaccine trials. And I know what they're gonna I, know what they're using the excuse excuse me to. Use these particular target groups but what bothers me so much about is the rush to inoculate. People also color I. Yeah. has its where. Some carrier of. That's what bothers me the most. Well, it's an anchor in the sense that it's. It's. It's been done before. The temps of euthanize ation. Plenty of examples of history that. So Why not try it again? It's just asked but anyway, sorry brother cut you off. They didn't say. Let's. Do testing on the population. Throughout there. Immediately excuse me. Let's test it on African Americans I hate that term. Any brown person of African descent. That has ancestors from Africa, you're not African American. I had a lengthy discussion with someone about this one day. You have African ancestry, but you are an American. Period. Well I grant you it's a it's a it's it's used more as. A. Political. Term. From in the media. And it's regardless of where it comes from. It's used as a designation of the other. Interesting I, understand that. It's A. It's a descriptors. But anyway, ahead. It is a descriptive. You're absolutely correct, but it's it's used as as a tool of otherness. I don't hear anybody. Using the term when talking about white I, don't hear anybody talking about European Americans. I. Don't hear that term. You are correct because they. The. Positioning usually is if they have. European, ancestry. The. Package at that way. But they don't use it on a daily basis. No let me suck like again I like to pick on the news media. The news media likes to talk about you know what? I mean. Well. They've. They have transitioned away from it a little bit now they just simply say black Americans right But it's still. It's still out there though they'll say. It is there. Anyway but. I you know the testing wasn't targeted at at at the you know the populace as as a whole it was you know Going to use it on people caller. We're going to use them as guinea pigs. No. You're not. You'RE NOT GONNA use people, colors, Guinea pigs in the way you want to. So. All kinds of horrible things that are going to happen will happen to them I. Know? And that's where I'm GonNa Park. Will already then? So. Thank you Robert for your feedback. All right. Let's see our next. Piece of listener feedback. Comes from listener alley who wrote in again. She's writes good afternoon sir. Thank you for your input. On? My mostly rant partioned partially question email. She writes it is comforting to know that I'm not alone in these feelings or experiences. I appreciate the input from the gentleman in Japan is well, that's right because we had shared her email with Dave and Japan. gave us some history and that was to counter. Some crapper brother was spewing. So, hopefully, that may reach back to him. Don't know. which goes on to say the to clarify in speak honestly I'm entirely mixed of German Dutch. And Cherokee possibly Choctaw and I live in the Pacific northwest currently specifically and respectfully on mode doc, in Klamath tribes, land. I've always been informed at my Cherokee heritage since I was little but still never raised with any meaningful family information culture or traditions. I grew up in Hicksville USA in a very, very white evangelical town and family she says. As mentioned before my Cherokee lineage is traced from my father's father. His mother was on the roles and my grandfather her son is registered with the nation or enrolled. Recent efforts to become informed of and involved in my history and nation have been earnest and somewhat of a mixed reaction from my family. Private matters have made it complicated to want to ask my father to verify I. AM indeed his child to get the paperwork going on becoming. She uses the word registered him and use the word enrolled enrolled member or citizen of the Cherokee nation. My older brother mentioned before. Has, acquired a registered membership. also calls himself a an quote UN, ashamed US citizen. Seems to have a scene seems to see my having not yet done. So as dishonor and will not accept me claiming or grieving for the nation being Cherokee nation is in without having completed that formality. So to pause here for a second. By all means comment brother but. It sounds like the brother in this case. Wants Ali to denounce. Any ties or connection. To her? Heritage, I write. An elevate American ideas instead. I personally think that that is bass. ACKWARD. K.. Because, through your indigenous ancestry, your people were here. Before America. So while we have to coexist between two citizenships one of them was historically forced upon us while the other is the birthright. Your brother should take a hard look at himself in that light I feel. But. If you have any comments on that brother. Yeah. It hap. It happens a lot. It just it just happens a lot in its colonial mentality. A because she has not. Completed her. Paperwork for inclusion into the tribe or to the nation actually. It's not something he should be bashing. So matter of fact he should be offering to help. And doing it himself. And yes and Nothing else helping complete compile some of her paperwork. Instead of bashing her for it. That goes along with the mentality of I've got mine. You get yours. That sad. Well. It's also. A form of erasure. Sureties because of for him or anyone else to sit there and innocence. Make an either or case says you have to denounce in essence this Belief. Of Enrollment. and embrace being an American. is completely devoid of an understanding of American history. And of their. Tribal history. and that is what bothers me to no end when I hear that type of positioning. That's why use the term coexist. In the sense of. Citizenship. Were dual citizens. And again, part of that was forced upon us. Nia, it's just worth pointing out. So she goes on to say I do not I, do want to complete that process but my knowledge. The only reason it even exists is because of the United States government imposing you us. Citizenship Native Americans, and the Sham of allotment is not she says. Her and my dad is not easy to seek quote. Without trying to manipulate me, she also says. precept to. Feel like whether or not I have filed an application with the Cherokee nation does not determine my Cherokee ness or right to call them my people in grieve for the atrocities done. Them. I know who I am whether the BIA says so or not. And it is difficult to live that out in my family in society without feeling quote to native. Or? Not Native enough close quote. I have a small son. In want to instill in him a love knowledge in practice. Of His And my own ancestors culture in wisdom. So. Again, I'm going to interject for a quick second and just point out again that. The BIA. Or the Bureau of in affairs if you're not familiar with the acronym. As a federal agency and the United States government as a whole do not dictate who is Cherokee or Choctaw or any other tribe. They. Insisted on Kerr they being. The. American forefathers But actually came at much later than them after them. But they insisted on creating a system of acknowledgement for the tribal nation. as a whole to be quote recognized by itself or Aka the federal government. that. So called process does not make an individual Cherokee. Tribal nation determines its own citizenship, not a federal or even a state government. Quote acceptance. Close quote. By immediate family members and tribal communities. Were also extended family by the way. Can. Be. Yet another bowl of. Excrement. Trying to be good. In you're doing ZIP lary job. Thank you. I was that Sandra did I do okay Sandra. Elliott, continues here. She says my dear friend also Cherokee, and I plan to learn Cherokee meaning the language together. And, teach our children. Sorry. If I'm continuing to just rant here I am mostly just feeling. So torn between knowing and loving my heritage and also living. As an American within his family of quote proud and unashamed John Wayne Loving military veteran Western glory. Close quote. Am that I am tied to end love. It feels very dismore FIC- And then she hasn't ps that says the e mail shared also by listener. Cheyenne sorry. was incredibly. relatable and appreciated as well. She said so. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's it's a tough situation to walk in. And sadly many natives throughout the country have to walk in that same situation needlessly so. Because of colonial. Position of. Meaningless rules that we had nothing to do with. And they are meaningless. To us but to them, their their goal is to. Eradicate us from existence. And we're helping them. By. Perpetuating their policies. That's exactly what's happening. The. Dolls rules the baker roles, Ciller roles, the Katie Rolls, all of those roles. We didn't create. The government created them. The subdivisions. And they were meant to. Exclude us. From the Berry lands that we inhabit or inhabited at that time. They did not go out of their way to seek. Each and every person that should have been included on the roles. If you weren't in the sandy of the census taker, your name did not get included. Even. If a family member tried to tell them, we have other family members who are out hunting fishing. Your name did not get included if the census taker looked at someone and didn't think they looked air quoting Indian enough. They were missed classified or not included on the roles. That was another way that they eliminated a lot of native peoples from the roles. If you look to dark, you're considered. Negro Yep. If you if you were to white, you're either label, this white or Mulato or something in between I've heard countless stories from indigenous people who had to go back, get their birth certificates and get it changed because they had been listed as. Negro. Or Black. Or. African. American if you will brother. You know it's So. And the last sore point of contention is the blood quantum problem. Tribes today and tribes have their own. You know legal right to determine who's a member WHO's not, but I'm going to say some of the methods that some tribes of using you're cutting your throat. I'm sorry you're cutting your throat. Use It as a tie to find out who family members are. Use used that information if you will for that. But don't use it as as crucial to. To keep people off the rolls. That that's just that's just tribal suicide. So you stand tall and you feel confident and who you are, you will get what you need. From those, you need to get it from. and. You'll get it when you are supposed to have it. Feel comfortable in that and never mind all the other white noise that's around you telling you you can't or why you can't or why you shouldn't. Never mind all the white noise. You keep moving forward. You stand strong and your beliefs in who you are. And I promise. You'll be successful in in your goals. Your ancestors are watching. and. They will help you. That I am sure off. Didn't do you brother. Thank you. All right who've been on. We have another bit of feedback from listener. ESPN. And she says teaching tolerance good day native opinion. What could they be? Deanna. Sorry. She goes on to say my name is Deanna in enrolled in the Apache tribe of Oklahoma and I am also comanche. I have been listening to your podcast for about four months now. Well. Thank you Deanna. And as I've gotten older. I have developed a greater desire. To learn more about my ancestors. I was looking forward podcasts that might enlighten me about native matters and I came across need opinion. Thank you. I want to thank you both for sharing your knowledge with us. On another note. I am a law enforcement officer and have been. So for eighteen years. I recently obtained my degree in elementary education and learned about a website called tolerance dot Org. They have new video and offer less implant indigenous people as the first slaves. Might be interesting for you to watch and look over the lesson plan and then provide your opinion. About, the quality of work that was done. I hope you have a great day and I look forward to your next show. Thank you. Thank you for being a listener and. We hope to continue to provide you with as much. Content, as we can possibly provide. I was GONNA say did you have a chance to look at that? I did not look at it as of yet. I started to look at it this morning. And I said well, I better away because I. Think it's a twelve minute video were so. Yeah it is. So Desai started it, and then I stopped and I said, well, you know what? After the show I guess? I. Should Have Dude it before the show because I didn't realize. The video was part of Diana's listener feedback. That's okay. All right well. The video that were referring to is entitled the Forgotten Slavery of Our ancestors that was It was produced by the folks at teaching tolerance on the website that you mentioned, which is tolerance dot. Org. And it's very good. It opens with Dog Journalist Educator inactive is Paula Peters O Paulo's work? No No. No. They she is one of the people they interviewed or your she contributed to. Coach I've met Paulo a few times, and Wealth of knowledge. And and well worth watching. Now. That is up on our native opinion facebook page because would like to watch that. in here is a an audio excerpt from that video Hugo. As a young child growing up I can remember very vividly going into a a believe it was my second grade classroom. We were being taught about Thanksgiving and the story of the friendly Indian and at that time. Back in one thousand, nine, hundred sixties they didn't mention the woman on tried by name they didn't mention squander by name. The teacher was talking more in generalities about these wonderful Indians who came and they taught. How to plant corn, and then at the end of the season, they harvested all this wonderful food which helped them to survive and. They had a great feast and. They just. Had a wonderful time and I'm not sure if somebody asked her but. Then, she offered up the information about what had happened to these Indian people. She says, YEP, they're all dead. I remember. Waving my hand wildly like a little kid will do. And I said no, they're not all dead. I'm here I. I'm Awada and I'm still here. There was reading this like five hundred page. Book of Russian history and there's a couple of references of what they win deal on Kodiak along is ninety percent of the people died. Everybody's like Oh must been diseases it must have been this must have been that. I think diseases yesterday did play a part in that. But what happened is when you take the men in those regions. Don't put your food up in the summertime. You're not gonNA have any food in the wintertime because there's nothing up in Alaska in the wintertime. They were using the people as slaves on sea otters. As references Gideon talks about this. When you visit in Kodiak. Eighteen knows freed eighteen o five. The. People resemble the dead more than the. Living. People were starving to death. If the people didn't they killed the children mother. Of course everybody's GonNa Wind. Nobody wants to be. So. There's nothing more important than your family. And I think for for all of us, there is nothing more important than our family. I started to piece together and then you hear about them taking hostages in every group they ran into. I read this stuff I get angry. At eight me up why angry I can't change the past I started to think about how do we educate our community so that? We are not repeating ourselves. So. Again. Dan. Asked for our thoughts about that video as well as the lesson planning you know in. So I did watch it and again, it is up on our facebook page for you guys. And I you know. So these are my comments alone. Okay. I was. Happy to see their lesson plan open with indigenous slavery through the use of that video. But from there. That's where it seems to have stopped. Teaching, tolerance. On that same page. hosts of with the same page excuse me that you know that hosts the video. Published an additional series of videos on black. Slavery. So, from my perspective, it leaves the readers. Which on this side are heavily influenced by teachers right. A great education resource I just wanted to point that out too. But it leaves them in my view wanting more about the subject indigenous slavery, but it fails to deliver. On again, this isn't a critique on the need to teach the history of African slavery. In the United States, I need to point that out vividly. That needs. To continue to happen. And the black lives matter movement has now brought that awareness into the consciousness of the united. States. And quite frankly around the world. And that's a very, very good thing. However are indigenous history which includes slavery. In and also outside of what is now recognized as the United States. Is. To borrow their term forgotten. There is no follow up to this on the website on the subject. It makes me wonder why. If they could feature indigenous educators in the video. Why then is there not? Them that has at least a module dedicated. Exclusively on indigenous people who were enslaved. Unfortunately, instead, the subject is sort of merged with African slavery in America and more broadly the Americas. So not only were indigenous people enslaved or worked in servitude happened between tribes as well. And what is known by historians as quote primary sources close quote. which are largely colonial sources. Reflect, and make distinctions about that as well. So, there's more work obviously that needs to be done in research in that area and it must include indigenous people in that work. Our perspectives on primary colonial settler sources must be on display in order to balance what continues to be white academic speculation. On that ASPECT OF NORTH AMERICAN HISTORY Now do I think teaching tolerance and again, the website is a tolerance dot. Org. Do I think it's a good resource. Absolutely. Do. I think there is good content on their on indigenous history, not as much as I'd like. They do publish some webinars conducted by native speakers, night suggest checking those out as well. but again. I think we need to. Focus some information into modules so that You know teachers have this. Now, what was actually remarkable about this too was that I had. been conversing with someone locally here in Connecticut another educator. Looking to broaden her content for her students which are up to the eighth grade I believe. And she actually referenced the same video and also tolerance dot Org you know. And I gave her innocence this the same feedback. Again it's a great resource absolutely should be used. but it does lack in this area. And so you know if there's Other indigenous educators out there in scholars which we do have Perhaps, we should reach out to an organization like this. and. Try. To. Balance The boat a little bit, and again that's not to. You know to say that. The teaching of African slavery is a bad thing. It is not a bad thing it has to happen but the thing about it is our slavery happened I. I'm wondering. I left with wondering. Why That wasn't or isn't followed up. As thoroughly as it could be from what I'm gathering from what I'm hearing I, haven't had a chance to watch it or or our research the the link. But I'm wondering why the? What I'm what I'm. Speculating or? Guessing is. An incomplete. Monologue into native slavery and native culture. That's that's my perception because they haven't had a chance to research the the Lincoln or watch the video and I'm basing that on what I'm hearing here. And what I've read from the Deanna email. So I'm wondering. What the impetus is for that. If. There is any and. I wonder why? Maybe I'll get my answer with a you know research on the link and Who these folks are. Well the now that's what I'm. That's the question or questions that I'm left with right and and. I. Don't WanNa sound like a broken record, but you know the onus right now in the United States is is to convey and elevate. Again. Just. Here's the broken record part, but it's important. I'm not saying it's a bad thing but the elevation right now is just on African slavery. In Black America. And and. There is not enough. Understanding Education in an attention onus to history that predates that here. and. That's what I'm question as to why that why that is why there isn't a continuation. And an explanation. Of. The lack of Information Out Word Information. On. That particular. Topic. Because the information is out there. is absolutely is the there's connections just from our new. England tribes alone in. On kind of glancing in in Chat Aurora was talking about Spanish missions and enslaving indigenous peoples in you know tribes taking prisoners of war, which is also true but here in New England. There's plenty of examples of our of our people being taken just for the sole purpose of slavery you know to many of the Caribbean islands. In this that is. Completely ignored. And all all historian accounts and that includes people of color that are historians as well as was as white historians. And there's starting to be more attention. I know that Brown University in Rhode Island is doing a study. But against being initiated initiated by non natives. and. Sadly I'm not trying to connect this to brown necessarily but. Some of these efforts And again a preface again because I don't WanNa get the show in trouble or myself. But often when studies are thought up. The end up in a grant application. True. And then what happens is then the team of people that are looking to do that research then and only then do they start reaching out to tribes when they get some some semblance of buying. Those individuals of the tribal individuals are more or less shut out but at that point the scholars have their money. So so this is this is why it has to be handled differently. The information is out there I have done some of the research myself. But obviously it takes it takes time. But what what I failed to understand is I'm not the only historian out there. And yet we don't see it being elevated as it's being elevated. With other aspects of of American slavery right now. So, you know So again, I give a give tolerance dot Org credit for at least taking the initiative to publish something right through this video. And unless I'm missing the curriculum and I was looking in the wrong place, maybe the Anna can write back and let me know but I did not find a curriculum specific on indigenous slavery. As I said, it appeared to be merged with. The, the the slavery education overall in in in their curriculum. So. How. Made an interesting Comment point in his comment. He says until I, found this podcast slavery of indigenous people had never heard of. Yeah. There you go and you're not alone. You're you're definitely not alone. Aurora road I was previously only aware of the Spanish missions, enslaving indigenous people and various tribes taken prisoner of war in slaving those prisoners. And she goes on the same that twelve minute video was away enlightening. Why wanted to tease it a little bit with audio. But it's out there with the link goes back to tolerance dot Org because they deserve the credit absolutely and and the traffic. So please guys visit visit the website and look through it because there is a lot of great information there especially if you're an educator. It's a resource, another resource that always liked to mention you know especially for teachers to relevant to. indigenous people in Con-. Is. going. To be reclaimed native truth Dot Org I. Believe it is you can google reclaim native truth There is another great resource for you guys. They have special guides there for allies, for example so if you're not native. Please Take a glance through that because it's very, very important. But Maybe. I'll try to you know it's a matter of time in my personal life. Being, it's not from not wanting to do it. or or an inability to do it but at some point, I will try to gather some information and create You know a small segment here on the show. that speaks to this subject but but there. There is. Information out there that can be had but again, it's research and it takes time and you got to do it so. You know. So there's other people out there so. Let's empower more of our people to take that on and. Maybe, we can get it. More before front so But thank you again deanna for the email. Appreciate absolutely the thank you. All right. To Listener voicemail yup listener voicemail we're going to start with Paul Paul called twice and what I did was a combined his voicemails together. And so here's what he had to say. Good tidings to both my brothers. I wish you well and success your endeavors. I haven't heard snow. Thing that happened to me a number of days ago. Our city has opened of. Restaurant Services on the civil. With, distance was with the tables. I got in touch with to married couples. I have known, for over ten years. We decided to meet for a bunch. Customer on. Iraq a little late there receded. Me Give a little brief description. I wear mostly jeans and t-shirts. And I wore a t shirt that they found them very. Disturbing. The T shirt bore. The four. Happened Fathers at the monument. that. The natives find. Disgusting. But below the monument. was four figures. Of Pictures of natives. And their traditional dress And underneath. The natives it said. The true founding fathers. Paul good. Question. One of the. Couples. Man. Of. Why that keeps. I explained. Colonization and everything about. What? The white men race. Has Done in colonization. Well. This House. Shock. And all four of. People that were sitting with me. One of the men said. You're an Indian lover. And I looked at him and his wife I'd said. You are against America. You're an American. I said, these people were here. The. Americans. And I was replaced by another. Woman in the couple. that. They did not along here. It was America. Not. Indians. Which I getting pounded ahead and so Unlike arguing. I decided I different approach. I mean, Ford folded my hands. And look them all single league one by one in the eyes. And I. Thank Them. For, being who they were. Because I knew. You're truly a human even if you were. Racist in your hearts. One of the women blurred that how quickly. There's no racism. Racism is dead. It's been gone careers. And I looked directly at her and said, no, it has not because it's still continuing. With that the two couples. Wide Is. There miles open got up and left. In the middle of the meal. I thought about her awhile and then I found out. I had been. Presented the bill. For the meals so I left degenerative. For. The young man that was my waiter. Was Up. Spanish descend. I am still wondering why. People have so much heat. misguided. Within their hearts. And I fear most of them. Will never change. This saddens me greatly. For the loss of. Four friends. and. What this nation is coming to. Fear Hatred. And Racism. Four friends. How I've never seen again or heard from But Hey on my face boettger. Tremendously. But he wrote. Derogatory. Very. Opinionated and offense sub. Post. Responded to. A dozen. Other friends, some of them retired on for decades. All would a derogatory terms. I had. Sort of my injury to to me and I even had one threaten to kill me. They have all been removed from my face boker. which is what I recall from now on. And I w the post. But I am wondering. Why someone could hide Racism and hate. So deep in their heart. With someone. For so many decades. Until they, release it. Because of something, they find offensive to the American way a lot. I decided. To, call myself. I don't. I am simply. A man. And the human. Now Prolific Burger. I enjoy that. Term Analogy. Very much. And I would like to see a group Mika a song of it. Gladly by the Cheese. And play. Thank you both of you. And ME. And healthy life. Towards you. Forever. By Gerard much. Paul. Well. Paul you never cease to humble me with every call you make your. Thank you for that that information. Thank you for sharing that. I know it took a lot for you to do that. And I'm saddened that. You had to learn about your friends that way. On one hand but I'm glad you did on another. To know that people harbor those types of ill towards others. In that manner. Just because of who they are. It's it's sad. It's a sad existence in Paul said, how could how can people harbor that kind of hate in their hearts for decades? They do it as easily as taking a breath of fresh Air Paul. That's that's my. That's my answer to that. Racism is. One of the threads. That so the fabric of this country. This country was founded on racism as one of its tenants as one of its pillars. So to those folks that embrace that totally holy. It's easy to them as taking breath of air. They don't see it as as anything. Wrong. It's part of their existence it's part of their upbringing. It's part of their teachings. They don't see it as wrong and we all know as wrong as rain. But to them, it's who they are. And they embrace it. As you found out. It is truly sad I don't know how many. People, I've scrubbed for mice facebook account and thank you for that Paul. I would say my facebook account is now half a point it used to be. To give you an idea I have about a six, hundred, twenty, five people left on my facebook account. So that gives you an idea of how many people I've scrubbed in the last three years. Well. A couple things if I may. On absol- first of all anybody who threatens your life on facebook needs to be reported. FACEBOOK has a complete obligation to follow up. With law enforcement. Absolutely. So Paul I don't know if you reported the that that individual care of their commenting I don't care if they want to spout the first. Amendment Their First Amendment right. Okay. report. And follow up with facebook and make sure that they're doing their damn jobs. So that was the first point I heard the second point I want to comment on his. Define for me. What it means to be on American. Seems to me that. White Ring of did it again by the? WHO Did this earlier you guys off the air I said White ringers. right-wingers. Wing people. That by in large. Are Trump supporters. Ilk. I want a definition. Of un-american. Because this goes back to what Allie was saying. That if you Promote. A part of your heritage that. Even if it's part of your heritage, it of not from this continent. It's like these people believe you're supposed to leave whoever else? That makes up who you are at the door too hot to wear the badge of American. Basically that yeah. That's exactly what what the right wingers expect. And even and it's not just a right wing thing-. Who are you to tell me or anyone else or Paul? or whomever. That they have to cling to one ideal in one ideal only. comes straight at least here in this country this comes straight out of this white nationalist bs Oh absolutely. Morning Easy and I'm. I'm mixed as many of the people that we've spoken or heard from in this particular episode as as as a gets. But my identity is with my nation. By indigenous nation. It's where I grew up. Is To community I grew up with. It's it's a family that I grew up with but guess what? That doesn't mean I ignore. My other heritage's. I don't know much about them as I do my indigenous heritage. But I don't discount it. So. Why should I discount all of that? To fit the mold that these people want me to apparently fit. And if I don't, then I am called on. That that makes no sense. Well. Let. Let me formulate the. Lets. You formulate an example here as I as I weighed some of the messages. Face. In thank you spreaker for poll. Houses Hi Paul Hope you're doing well. How goes on to say Paul, even better man than I for sure. Bet Says Good Grief Paul, this is also over the top for your friends to be doing 'em. So sorry, you had to go through that. I'll say I would love to have you as a facebook friend. Go. And Beth says I to Paul would be honored to be your friend on facebook. It's feel Syria we. Because it's going to be part in part of my answer. They must know it's wrong and some measure otherwise, they wouldn't be hiding it for. So long the scary thing is it doesn't take that many racist to cause a lot of harm your. facebook account a type of employment that allows him to discriminate or prevent people of color to have access to certain services are opportunities. and Tim goes on to say and welcome again. Tim. Speaking of Native History, I'm taking five college courses this semester. Load one of which is a US history course I was shocked when the only mention of native people was but one paragraph and written lecture notes from Professor. This. This is a college level course yet it still fails to teach native history outside of the in quotes fight for America. And Its lands as termed by my professor. Okay When someone is accused of being on American. It is usually by one of somebody on the right usually. Or somebody on the extreme left. And They're accusing you of not. Adhering to. Their belief systems. Or what they think their version of America is supposed to be look like. So, if you go grits the grain a little bit your un-american. You like in your on American. You, you support Antifa your? un-american. Bird. But you're you're your terminology whether you like black people. Yes you're on. American. So that's that's catchphrase. For. Those to us who? Find People in opposition to what their belief systems are. They think that somehow accusing somebody of being un-american is going to bring them to heel and they're gonNa Cower and beg forgiveness for being un-american. Now. That's not the way this works. They never knew what it was to be an American or to be Patriot. Being a Patriot is not kissing Donald Trump's. Be Tt. That is. I'm waiting. That is not being a Patriot being patriot is not keeping kids in cages. Being Patriot is not hating on. A movement that's trying to bring light to inequality and injustice. Being Patriot is not running over people. With vehicles because they are participating and movements that are bringing light to injustice or inequality. Being, a Patriot is not plotting to kidnap a governor. WHO HAS DIFFERENT BELIEFS? Of Yours To. Make your point that has no meaning or concept in anything idiocy. And hate racism and terrorism. Patriot is taking care of those that can't take care of themselves. Being Patriot speaking up and out against racial injustice and brutality and equality. Being a Patriot is. Uplifting those that. Have lost their voices helping people get to the polls to vote. Ensuring that people have a right to vote those things to me being patriot. Also, don't be putting troubling in my head David shifting trump's be ut Sorry how? So, but. You know. Put My foot through a soapbox but go ahead. No it's quite all right. I just. Thought I'd. Ask that question. Right. So that's my long answer. Well, that's okay. But I just have great. Issues. With. That is presented as A. Some kind of thing. So. But. But. But to to Paul. Just. Stay strong. I. Know He's been an activist. From what he's revealed to us on the show so far he's been an activist most of his life. And so. You know. We. We understand. We definitely understand. Our we have another voicemail here because I want to move us along just for a time check brother it is we're an hour and forty five minutes. Okay. All right. Just so you know. Thank you Paul for that that voicemail yes. Definitely. Thank you. So any called in and here's what any of the say. Good you mean Michael and David any Just checking in money. I've really been enjoying show. Especially of feedback from fellow listeners. It's just incredible to me. How Many people out there how different we are. But yes how all the like we are and A lot of personal information and personal witness. And I just want to say that I'm truly honored to be a part of this group and to. have. Access to that information. And to hear the commotion. And listeners forces you know through how? Both of you share he now and ladders. Really very special. I'm actually getting ready to listen to episode two, five, seven I'm on the road and I think if you're and how a bit wonder how many times I've passed their trucks. I I'm traveling social worker, a visiting social worker at hospice like I told you but I am on my way. For hours and Right now heading east? Eighty. Exit Three Oh chew. Anyway So I. I lost my train of thought of course but the last couple. Episodes that I listen to. It made me think about something called epigenetics. Who Am sorry keep Kinda reverting back to history and I hope that's not getting tiresome but I don't know if the two of you're familiar with EPA genetic of shore them many of your listeners or some of your listeners are from just the feedback that I've heard. The, caliber. Individuals were listening to this. In a nutshell it's basically the idea biology of. How experiences those? Generations are review on GNA without actual changes in the genome and that information that. Is passed on from generation to generation and. There's any. Culture or Group people out there that just like the Japan that happened I would say you people Justin credible wealth with knowledge and experience that. and. Everyone I need to lose native Americans whether it's just meeting. Mike hearing their ladders or meeting in person or listening to both you and David Works both your Michael. So I just rates show continue always I feel I would be You would be sadness if this podcast was no longer available. And thank you so much. The IT. Some goes down. Advocating night the by. Thank you for that. Appreciate that appreciate that much. Thank you. It's heartfelt and well received. Thank you be careful out there please. Yeah. But she passed by Hal to Hell Hell Hell dress. Drives over road as well and we thank you guys very much for what you do. Especially right now man during covid. Tough. All you guys, I first responder. Central Workers. You guys are doing tough stuff right now. Yeah epigenetics also referred to as generational trauma. where. That trauma is passed down. From generation to generation. Genetics. So. Yes. Many of us are well aware of epigenetics. And it's something that's that's real. Many people will argue against it. But it's something that doesn't exist. And scientists proven such True very true. Science. Yes. Another evil word for trump apparently but anyway. I gross. Alright man like we went a few weeks without hearing anything from anybody and now we've. Gotten. Good feedback, and thank you guys very very much. Absolutely. Communities wrestling with some stuff. Obviously. Just. Hang in there. Hang in there be strong. You know. Each. Other here in this community like you know. If you're not getting. The support that you need elsewhere by all means, keep keep writing and and You know we'll do our best to to respond either either on the air so to speak and or You know. Answer emails. As much as we can so. Okay we're going to transition now and I know it's been A. Long segment, but we've been looking to move to something else now that caught our attention that did kind of start. As. In a way listener feedback but Transitions into a story that requires some background too I think. So. Here we go. If you don't mind bearing with me as I do quite a bit of reading here, but and again brother as always jump in anytime. So. We're we've entitled this next segment a warning for indigenous people supporting the full in the White House. And a post that we had received from someone named Ian. was sent to us about yet another problem created by the trump administration. So Enron, this will start with that. He wrote quote okay. For All you need is out there who are supporting this current administration. Pay Attention. I've been saying this for a long time. Trump is coming for you. Your sovereignty is at stake now more than ever. The. EPA has just given the State of Oklahoma Regulatory Authority over tribes concerning environmental regulation. The request was written by an Oklahoma. Congressman and his aides to make sure that they were asking for the right thing. The head of the EPA is former Oklahoma senators lawyer a former oil lobbyist and coal magnate. Andrew. Wheeler. Who've talked about on the show in the past. Not Somebody, you want heading regulations of these industries. Listen to me he says your sovereign rights as native Americans are being challenged right here right now. Right in front of your eyes. Trump is coming for you. If, he gets another term, it's only going to get worse. So, vote Tell your friends to vote tell your family to vote. That's the only way to stop this. To all my Oklahoma friends and relatives he writes I am sorry. But don't stop fighting. And to my own tribe, he says southern Ute Indian tribe. Where is your voice? What is your official stance here speak up? Our Future depends on it. To all your running for. Council. What's your stance on this speak up? And that's where he closed his comment. So. This story that IAN is referencing was actually originally reported through the Progressive News Network, known as the Young Turks. We often cite their political commentary on our show and to be completely transparent I financially support the network personally. Because I think they do good work. and. This story is an example of that. But before we get to the TY T. special investigation, we need to remind you guys about a recent Supreme Court case that has deep bearing on tribal jurisdiction over the eastern part of Oklahoma. Number referring to the mcgurk verses Oklahoma. Case? In a report from K. Scu U. Radio out of Tulsa Oklahoma. Alison Herrera wrote an article. About a visit by the state. Skinny about a visit to their their state by US Attorney General William. Bar. A. Here's part of that report Allison wrote. Quote. United States Attorney General William. Bar visited the Cherokee nation capital in Taloqan Oklahoma on Wednesday to talk about some of the challenges and partnerships in the wake of the landmark mcvea Gert Versus Oklahoma decision that was handed down in July. Representatives from the Cherokee nation and the US Attorney's Office for the northern. District of Oklahoma and the Eastern District of Oklahoma were there. But in the wake of a ruling that affects jurisdiction in a large portion of the state. Some question why representatives from other tribes weren't there. And if bar plans to schedule more meetings in the future. Bar announced that forty million dollars will be made available to Oklahoma to help expand. Criminal Justice efforts. The Cherokee. Nation will receive seven million of that money to expand their criminal justice system. The grant money made available to Oklahoma. Ones applied for last spring before the Supreme Court made its ruling on the mcgurk case. There is indication that more money could open up to help expand tribal criminal justice systems? Let let me interrupt you there saying. The things that bars promising. He can't promise that. That's not within his his. His power to do. He can't do any of those things. None of this money has been allocated. Through Congress none of it. That's right. Bar has thrown a mere. Bid Pocket Change out here here Indians we want you to support us. Here's a little pocket change. Seven million dollars in today's money is nothing. When. Speaking of a nation as large as the Cherokee nation it's nothing. Exactly asked what I was thinking. Forty million. Dollars will be made available to Oklahoma to help expand tribal criminal justice. Everett's forty million dollars is nothing. That's pocket change. Bribing bribing tribes to. Help overthrow, mcgirt, versus Oklahoma. Basically what he's trying to do. He's opening the door for what just happened at the behest of stit. Getting. The EPA to grant him sole authority. Over. The environment. On native lands in Oklahoma. We'll get into that in a few minutes. So. You, know bars going to Oklahoma was not anything out of benevolence at all. All right. Sorry to cut you off. No, no, no no, that's okay. going. On. Back, here. According to the Justice Department more than one hundred and three million dollars was awarded to the coordinated tribal assistance Solicitation program to enhance law enforcement and tribal justice practices, expand victim services, and sustain crime prevention and intervention efforts absentee. Shawnee. I'm skipping absentee Shawnee choctaw nation citizen. Potter. What one woman nation. Comanche nation and the Delaware tribe of Indians received money under the C. T. A. S. programs. Now the effects on the five tribes would be that the landmark Supreme Court ruling declared that Muskogee. Creek. Nation is still reservation as defined by an eighteen, sixty, six treaty excuse me. Practically speaking this means crimes committed by native Americans inside the boundaries of the reservation must be prosecuted by tribal courts or federal courts. Until the ruling, such crimes were being prosecuted in State Court. It is widely believed. The ruling extends to Cherokee Nation chickasaw nation Seminole nation, and choctaw nation. Because they all have similar treaties with the United States government. That is expected to be settled later this year but right now, the ruling only applies directly to Muskogee Creek nation. Quote. I don't think there was ever any question in my mind or in the minds of other people who represent the five tribes that this is not just about the Muskogee Creek nation but this would impact all the five tribes qlo-quote said Cherokee. Nation. Attorney General Sarah Hill. Muskogee Creek nation wasn't at Wednesday's meeting with bar. That's bizarre, right? Neither were the choctaw nation, the seminole nation or the chickasaw. Nation. Quote, unfortunately, this is a huge missed opportunity from creek nations perspective close quote. said. Jonah. Chowdhury the ambassador for the Muskogee Creek. Nation. Chowdhury said they indirectly learned of the meeting Tuesday. So. So no real effort here is. On the part of Bar. Or Oklahoma. To invite the tribes? No No. Okay. Telling. The US Attorney's Office of the Northern District said the meeting was arranged quickly late last week. They also confirmed that bar spoke with Muskogee creek principal chief David Hill and invited him to Washington DC for face to face meeting. Quote there are certainly matters that we would love to discuss with him regarding our efforts to collaborate with our sovereign partners. Were partners now apparently. To ensure public safety but also to take advantage of opportunities across the board in terms of economic development said Chowdhury. That is Reoccurring language. Now, from from any fed in any fed agency, they call tribes their partners. I can speak On this specifically towards my work in historic preservation in through the national historic preservation act. All of the agencies I interact with referred to us as partners. It is unclear whether or not bar will be returning to Oklahoma chickasaw governor bill. No tubby released this statement quote. We are encouraged that attorney general bar took the time to visit Cherokee nation following the Supreme Court ruling in mcgurk Oklahoma, it is important for tribal state and federal leaders to work together to address the challenges we face moving forward close quote. What challenges? You see the the. The court ruling was to clarify. And reiterate. Jurisdictional. Boundaries. But they're calling it. They're calling it. Sorry brother, they're calling challenges. You. Telling. Telling point number to go head. Really. Yeah. Neither the challenges that they're speaking of it's coming up, you're to read it and it's just said moments ago. So, what are the federal legislation and to address jurisdictional issues? Now at the meeting bar spoke about possible legislation to address what some view as jurisdictional issues. Some right what how some address. Jurisdictional issues surrounding mcgurk versus Oklahoma Decision So, let me let me party there before I talk before I read a little further. What we always try to educate though is that when you're talking about the federal government in particular. But it's also true of state government as well when we're talking about relationships with tribes. And that is. Do not give the tribes more power. Or do not impose allowed the empowerment of tribes now now. People will throw stuff back our way and say, well, we given money in certain areas where tribes of have requested a support and certain certain. Deficiencies right. and. Things like that. But we're talking about specifically jurisdictional. Authority. In this case. That in mind as I read. Read this. Part the sentence again at the meeting bar spoke about possible legislation to address what some view as jurisdictional issues surrounding the mcgurk versus Oklahoma decision quote I know mcgurk is on everyone's mind in Washington. The department. Of Let me do it in the bar voice. Airing Oh. I know mcgurn is on everyone's mind in. Washington. The Department of Justice working closely with the Oklahoma delegation to try to come up with a legislative approach that is supported by all sides. Close quote said Bar. Good thank you. So. What's target a few words here The. Department of Justice working closely with Oklahoma delegation will. Is that delegation inclusive of all the tribes we've mentioned so far is that delegation does that delegation involve Muskogee Creek nation. Maybe nope. That wasn't in his statement. At least this this quote. And again, I say. So. How does this relate to the EPA and Oklahoma? That answer as my brother already. Less, seriously put forward. The answer is it's governor and supposed- Cherokee Nation citizen cabins. Debt. Now here is the T Y T special investigation report written by journalists. T Hugh Cha Chang, which is dated October fifth. Earlier, this month. Okay and. And May. Or. May Not read all this brother because it's pretty long in obviously all of this, all the links will be in the show notes. But here, let me get into what Mr Chang's writing and he wrote. The environmental protection. Agency. The EPA is granted the State of Oklahoma regulatory control over environmental issues on nearly all tribal lands, their ty T. has learned. this strips. From thirty eight tribes in Oklahoma, their sovereignty over environmental issues. It also establishes a legal and administrative pathway to potential environmental abuses on tribal land including Dumping Hazardous Chemicals like carcinogenic PCB's and petroleum spills with no legal recourse by the tribes according to a former high level official of the EPA. So full stop the only the only critique on put in. This isn't just a Mr Chang but to media in general. Tell me who said it? I really get tired when I hear according to a former high level official but you don't tell me who that is because if this person no longer works for the where do we have to lose to be revealing who they are just to confirm that they are in fact Or had in fact worked for. In this case right. But they call this protecting their sources. As a gray area there. But Anyway, I digress I move on. This also includes hazardous chemicals that are byproducts of petroleum, procurement and refining. In two thousand. Nineteen. Oklahoma had the fourth largest petroleum industry in the United States. Not. Why has obtained a copy of the letter EPA? Administer Andrew. Wheeler sent to Governor Jay, Kevin Stet Republican of Oklahoma on October first. The, end of the opening paragraph simply states quote EPA Hereby Approves Oklahoma's requests close quote. And then of course, they have linked to the actual document. Ty T. previously revealed that on July twenty second stint requested control of environmental regulations on tribal land involving a wide range of issues. All of STITZ requests in his letter were granted by the APA. They include. Here we go. Hazardous waste dumping on tribal lands which could be. Any. Of the hundreds of hazardous chemicals listed by the EPA including formaldehyde mercury lead a bestest toxic toxic air pollutants. WORTH IT PARENT A polygraph floor blahsy blahsy substances. I lost my. Po Polychlorinated biphenyls PCBS. Yes. Okay. You said that better than I. Sorry Guide. Decide. Chemicals Lice. Soap fate and polychlorinated. Biphenyls which further just said. PCB's. Underground injection control and EPA program used to permit fracking. Hello. Oh, I see what you're reading the polly floral floral Alkali Your I'll read this again though guys. Underground injection control on EPA program used. To permit. fracking. fracking uses large amounts of high pressured water to remove oil and gas from shale rock. It is a contributor to climate change and is known to leave behind contaminated water and toxic pollution, and of course, I don't have queued up but one of the most classic things came from one of the first nations in Canada. When they were dealing with. One of the oil companies out there. which was they had put some of that same water that that they use to inject into the earth into a glass and the invited the head of that company and. I don't know know if is he still in chat but or listening but I can't remember the name of which one of those petroleum companies there and it was an elder. From first nations than she said. You keep telling us that this water is safe that they're injecting into the earth I want you to drink this. And if you drink this. We will be. Convinced. And he did not. I'm not drinking. Moving on here says protect protecting large agricultural polluters in industrial sized livestock operations most often dairy cows, hogs, chickens these mega farm farms produce enormous amounts of waste including according to the Sierra Club, which estimates that quote the quantity of urine and feces from even the smallest. Of O, or concentrated animal feeding operation is equivalent to the urine and feces produced by ready sixteen thousand humans. Close quote. In his letter wheeler acknowledges that the United States Supreme Court decision of mcgirt versus Oklahoma pre. Pre. Precipitated this EPA action. Really. The. mcgurk ruling found that by treaty much of the eastern a much of eastern Oklahoma is still native American territory, which could which could mean under five tribes jurisdiction including for taxation and regulation in in anticipation of the decision the Seminole, tribe in twenty. Issued an eight percent tax on oil and gas wells on its reservation land. The EPA. Has Now granted the State of Oklahoma the same authority it had before mcgurk on environmental issues especially on petroleum, it can do this because federal legislation can nullify Supreme Court rulings because again, Congress. is in charge. So just to sort of break away from the article minute. So here, Mr Chang is asserting that the EPA has assumed authority over tribal lands citing federal authority to do so. Now you guys You might remember what we often say on our show about sovereignty with limitations. The last time this happened. This type of situation. was due to the popularity of Indian owned casinos. and. Native and non native workers rights being called into question. In our properties. It's also brought questions about a worker's rights to unionize, and then in two thousand and four a ruling from the National Labor Relations Board who are charged with enforcing federal labor laws cited that tribes in limited situations are not exempt from the National Labor, Relations Act. However, states and local governments. Are. So states are allowed to set their own labor laws. And Up to two thousand and four tribes were doing the same until that ruling. Since then our tribes have been trying to get our rights restored in the area of in enacting and enforcing our own labor laws. The last challenge waged by tribes was last year in two thousand nineteen. With the tribal Labor Sovereignty Act. It was passed in the Senate, but it was not passed in the house, which as we all know right now is still under Democrat control. So, Democrats are not always on the side of tribes. particularly. Corporate Democrats. All right. They love money just as much as Repulicans. So then you wonder why tribes back the CHEETO and his administration, but again I digress. Right. Because the keeping well, who is going to support us. That's the question and that's the attitude. A little bit more here, and then like I said the rest of this'll be in the show notes but. Back, to his article. Mr Chang writes in two thousand and five. A midnight rider attached to a transportation bill took away environmental regulatory control by Oklahoma, tribes if requested by the state as it has now done. The Oklahoma. State government is pro fossil fuel in pro big. Agribusiness. and. We do have tribes Oklahoma that are also pro fossil. Feel. So I need to. Point that out as well. A. It's their decision I have to respect their decision, but that's what they. Have chosen to go into. this return to previous fossil fuel regulations may be one factor in the multibillion dollar merger of Oklahoma's Devon Energy with W PX energy. As previously, reported by the Young Turks the Petroleum Alliance of Oklahoma new about governor. stitz. Letter to the EPA on July twenty second the day it was sent. This was close to one month before tribal governments were told. The EPA action infuriated. Oklahoma's Ponca tribe. Casey Kanpur neck environmental ambassador and elder and. Drum keeper of the pocket tribe of Oklahoma provided the following statement to t Y T. He writes quote. After five hundred years of oppression lies genocide echo side IM- broken treaties. We should've expected the EPA ruling in favor of Racist Governor State of Oklahoma. Yet it still stings. Under the trump administration destroying all environmental protection has been ramped up to give the fossil fuel industry. Life support as it takes last dying breath. Who suffers the results everyone and everything? Who benefits trump and his cronies climate change deniers like Governor State Senators in O-of and Langford who are financially supported by big oil and gas. I am convinced that we must fight back against this underhanded ruling. In the courts on the front lines in the international courts life itself is at stake. Goes, quote. So I. Really. Suggest you guys read? The article in the links contained within. because. It is a a major major attack on tribal sovereignty. And And Yeah. It's A. It's a problem. To say the very least. Any closing thoughts on that brother. Know Remember back when. mcgirt and versus Oklahoma came about. I said I smell a rat. Yes. You do. You do. Well here's the rat. Bar was the big rat, the delivered you know stink hanging gent at remark. Need to show our but. Who is counting? So. Yeah. I. Knew this was coming sadly. There's not a whole lot that that. The tribes can do other than fight it. In court. hopefully hopefully again, overruled when the new administration takes. Takes its place. come January hopefully that'll get overrule. and. Hopefully you. Somebody with common sense will be put in. In at the head of the EPA and they'll say, nope, we're not doing this. And they'll they'll strike it down hopefully will happen. I agree. Let's see. Thank you is easy. Says I couldn't find the video but I, remember this guy from Nebraska I believe I'm GonNa. I'M GONNA, have to toss this over to my other machine here. Brother is Gimme a SEC and. If technology does what it's supposed to. Keep I keep saying folks. Facing right. The consequences of putting the fool in the White House, very years. doing uniqueness or do sorry I didn't realize this is cool. My other machine will actually pipe into the system without me having to send the file over I, sorry don't mind me guys just getting. Really. Way Audio directly from the other manic into this. Is Enlightening I must have I must have had A. Configuration Change. So all right. So anyway without further ado you guys this is what is he said, thank you and. Here's that clip. What do you do with fresh water that has been tainted by the fracking process? Well, right now in Nebraska there is a proposal that out of state dirty water should be moved into the state and dumped into a body of water that they currently have. So let me give you some more details on that apparently Nebraska Oil and Gas Conservation Committee met to talk about this proposal. The committee is holding public hearings on the proposal by an oil company to ship out of state fracking wastewater Nebraska. Disposal well. I'm sorry. That's right. Yes. Let me let me toss it over them. So. If you guys were were able to hear that I could hear it in my headphones. All right. Hang on my bad my bad. My Pet, my pad. See, go to, airdrop. If our listeners can hear at that's that's all that matters I can listen to it later, I honestly don't know. Where the macbook pro. Here we go. Sorry guys. K. Beth said she could hear it loud clear or she could. Okay. So that's that's okay. Listeners can hear it. That's that's all it matters in just a moment we all should be able to hear it. If. Your vote didn't matter politicians would work so hard to take it away work. That's that's why the ACLU is fine to make. Sure we can all vote. Sorry. The ACLU. Fighting. Playing other people's. Ads. They're snacking. Now because for one thing I, you know I mean control over it and I don't know if we agree with them. Rush or apologize you guys were here. What do you do with rush water that has been tainted by the fracking process? Well, right now in Nebraska, there is a proposal that out of state dirty water should be moved into the state and dumped into a body of water that they currently have. So let me give you some more details on that. Apparently the Nebraska Oil and Gas Conservation Committee met to talk about this proposal the committee is. Public hearings on the proposal by Oil Company to ship out of state fracking wastewater into. Nebraska, where we dumped into a disposal wealth. Okay. Now, this could be a complete and utter disaster especially because there have been stories of this wastewater. Somehow seeping into the drinking water in communities throughout the country. So the Texas limit let me let me add some perspective to what she just said. No there is a gigantic offer that feeds several states out there Nebraska being one of them so that that threat was was or is very much real I want to know this is Anna conspiracy talking she works t y t This was released in March thirtieth of Twenty fifteen. So we got a little bit of age on it, but that's that's quite fine that the threat is still very much. A part of The process. So here we go. Ration- wants to truck as much as ten thousand barrels a day of the Chemical Laden fracking wastewater to a ranch north of Mitchell Nebraska for disposal. Now, there isn't a farmer who's a little concerned about this I should note that he's not necessarily against fracking. Fence about it. James Osborn wanted to talk about his fear of his drinking water getting tainted. So he attended this committee hearing and here's what happened. My question is. When you agree. Same kind of thing. Real. It's the water's like Nasty Brown. Okay. Everybody's like. Oh, my God. This morning. Talking to you that you would drink this water right? So, would you drink it? You can't you can't answer any questions. Who Doesn't love that Dude's overalls? Significant overall. And I like his honesty about the fracking. It's like look man people make money from fracking. So. I'm not against it. I'm just saying I don't know that I want the water to leak in my one. Right is the old nimby right not in my backyard. Love the the people that he saw, I do there on the committee who are like a sorry we can't answer it anything but. Then rule whenever it became inconvenient for them to answer questions. That's when they came up with the rule flip you. Okay. So I'll stop and as you thank you very much. Well, that's exactly the same point was made. In Canada's well with first nations elders as. If this is save you drink it. Right And I mean is. Not Attractive looking water at all. Yeah. It it. It looks like you know river that has a muddy bottom in. Stirred up and you were to take a scoop of that water and that's what it looks. But. This is chemicals guys. This is what comes back out when they. Flush. A drill hole. When they're trying to, and what to do is is you WanNa talk about desperation, right? If you think about what the fracking process actually is Is You're bringing up. Loose. Sediment has oil deposits in it, and then they have a process to extract that oil from sand. Talk about you know taking a straw in essence and trying to you know. Suck sand into your mouth. That has you know I don't know chocolate. going. Separate From sand grain on right. That's an essence what this is. Because they find value in. The oil deposit. What people aren't realizing about fracking especially when oil is concerned. That's the bottom of the well that's that they're scraping the bottom literally. There's No Telling people that you know we have an abundance of oil will never run out of oil. What they're not telling people is it's lungs they can scrape the bottom of the barrel or at this point, the bottom of the wells there's GonNa be oil, but they're not GonNa Bother to tell you how dangerous and costly it is to get at it. fracking started out as a as a big bone. In in Pennsylvania. I have friends and relatives that live in Pennsylvania and some of them had. Large farms that they allowed fracking on the either own the farms if they were renting. And they had the ability to. Enter these agreements with these. fracking companies. and. Whole areas of that state have been devastated farm country just unusable. Dairy farms. Unusable. The processes used for two points. What we just described is tar sands. The other side of it is to get at national us. He's been national. Talked today natural gas fissures. So the word fracking comes from fracturing. Fracturing means what. Breaking something. So they're drilling down into the earth, and then they're using a pressurized cabin water treatment to break the earth up even more. To, get access to that quote unquote resource. And then use a form of extraction process. But they go on. It has nothing to do with climate. Change has nothing to do with quakes. That water is safe. Right. Drink it. As they said. But they won't because they know better. So it got some problems going on here in. Oklahoma. And Because Some folks are saying, you'd better fight. One Way to do it is. Election time but even that's not a guarantee guys because I got news for you. Joe Biden is of also limited friend of fossil fuel. And also alternative energy depending on. What we're talking about. So. I don't know what to tell you. But But I will tell you this. We're GONNA take a music break. and. Then I think brother we're going to wrap with racism in America. That's fine. All right. All right and actually got a double shot for you guys but not of artist but two different artists and we're gonNA take about a six minute break here. I is. Tribe called read the track is called black bear, and that'll be followed by a track called spotlight from the blues band. Digging roots. So without further ADO. Let's get some rock on. Boys. Show to feel our. In, the evening this morning after. Long. vk. Operation in a flawless execution. Hello. Conscious. receive was the perfect crime. It was asked and it was clean L. again in. His Town. There you go. Digging roots, roots, digging roots. Prior to that, you heard Tribe called read, which is called black bear. Good, stuff. Good stuff. So as we move along here at two and a half hours brother. Believe two and a half hours. So roll into a racism in America? Go. Just never seems to end. There's no reason for it to be continuing. There's absolutely no reason on God's Green Earth. That racism in America should exist no reason. This instant instances no different Texas cop killed a black man. Called a pillar of the community. Now he's charged with murder. The. Cop. Story was written by Tim of Frank for the Washington Post. Shortly after police shortly, after excuse me a police hoster allegedly shot a man. Saturday. Night outside a gas station in Wolfe City Texas bystanders rushed to the scene. They were speech wits when they saw the victim. And this and that small North Texas town. Seemingly? Everyone knew Jonathan Pryce quoting. We all love him. Think. So highly of him and just the nicest guy, you could ever meet and quote. Kayla Sanders Sanders. Excuse me. Who ran to the scene from a nearby store told W. F. A.. Calling police I'm sorry calling price at thirty one year old man of color who was a city employees and personal trainer. And in quote pillar of the community. In fact, witnesses told reporters price to tried to break up a fight and side the gas station before a wolf city police officer. Sean, Lucas showed up. But Lucas who's white ended up tailoring price, and then fatally shooting him a throaty said. Authorities have charged Wolfe City Texas police officer Sean Lucas. With a murder for shooting for the shooting death Johnson, price a city employees outside a gas station. They will city police department quickly suspended Lucas, and on Monday the Texas Rangers Oh you really screwed up boycott the Texas Rangers came to get you. The. Texas. Rangers arrested police officer and charged him with murder in connection with prices death. The preliminary investigation indicates that the actions of officer Lucas were not reasonable. The Texas Department of Public Safety said in the statement shared with the Washington, Post. The risk comes after an emotional plea from prices family on Monday and a peaceful demonstration in will city. Price becomes the latest man of color killed by police to spark national demands for. Law Enforcement Reform. As hashtag justice for Jonathan Jonathan trended out social media throughout Monday. I WanNa see the man get what's coming to him for killing my son and that was a quote from junior price. His father said W. F. A.. Jonathan Pryce grew up in Wolfe city a town of almost one thousand four hundred residents located more than an hour northeast of Dallas. Starring as an athlete and playing alongside future Major League. Baseball player will middlebrooks who called him as. I ever favorite teammate later played football at two under two hundred, ninety, two, thousand, eight Lord for Hiding Simmons University Abilene Texas before returning to his hometown to work in the municipal works. Department heavy DOT COM reported quoting he was a great guy was a hometown hero. He was a motivational speaker he worked with kids. Lee. Merritt. Subaru. Attorney. Representing the price family said Monday interview. The police, of course, have released few details about what happened on Saturday. State officials had Lucas was called just before eight thirty. PM. To investigate a fight at the Quick Chek Gas Station in downtown. Wolf City. When the officer tried to detain price of course, they were expecting the man of color be the. The deep. He resisted. non-threatening posture began walking away quote. Lucas, tasted him and then shot him police price later died at a nearby hospital police have not said where the price was armed. Witnesses at the scene though told reporters that price was simply trying to stop a confrontation. According to Mary price stepped in when he noticed a man assaulting a woman at the gas station. When police arrived I'm told he raised his hands and attempted to explain what was going on merit wrote on facebook her my word. Police Fire. TASERS. And when his body convulsed from the electric current electrical current excuse me they quote perceived a threat and shot him to death. Prices father said on Monday that he rushed to the gas station after the shooting and confronted Lucas was still on the scene as they waited for an ambulance. Lucas refused to say why he shot prices father said he just told me to get back and he told me later. And later a gotten here yet, and that was a quote he said in the news conference. The rest of this will be in the she'll announce folks you just can't. We see countless cases of this week after week after week after week. and. Yes, they charged him with murder, but he has still yet to go to trial and they could very well find him not guilty because of some BS. I almost said it, but I did. So I just want you to know the community and myself are taking bets when you're gonNA actually swear. Already. So just. Just, make you laugh. While since I am the object of this bet I get a cut no matter what it is. If I win. If. You will be paid. Take your brother. So yeah, this this happens weekend week out. And No amount of praying. Low amount of. Talking. No amount of. Singing no amount of marching. No amount of protest no amount of anything. Is, bringing this to an end. Is No. Has Some of the elders have been known to say, I'm tired of being tired. Sadly the Biella Movement has taken. A backseat to some of the idiocy that's happening in the country. and. We have to do our part to keep it in the. forethought of people's consciousness. Because if not, it'll become just another sound bite. In the new stream somewhere. As a a mention. So I don't know what it's GonNa take to stop this. I know it will probably take to stop it. But. If that's the case, so be it. This has to stop people being murdered just because of the color of their skin. This is something that's been happening for. At least. Three, hundred years in this country. Well, you know when you say that the first thing I did my mind went to for some really weird inexplicable reason was. The Joe Biden's tagline. Has Been. We're fighting for the soul of America. Well defined that for me. Because if that is true. The soul of America. Is crying out right now. and has been and has been exactly. This is. More than a damn tagline Joe. If you're going to become president. It's more than tagline. It has to be fixed permanently. To release ship. Absolutely, and the sad part is not president in the last four years. Has said we're going to put a stop to racism in this country. And we're going to use these tools to do so. Tools like prosecuting people for. You know hate crimes. Now with said brother. Would that said I think that. If. We could before we close the show, our were about ten minutes up from three hours. So we could finished before within three. That'd be great I think we can. I think that's a great transition point to talk about this attempt of kidnapping against governor? Whitman. And the reason why that is. Important. In comes off with Dave just said. Is because it is an example where Domestic terrorism. is in the process being prosecuted. For hate crime. Of Sort. And the reason I say as a hate crime not racially motivated in this case. But because. A group of white. Males. Don't like. A Democratic governor. WHO IS TRYING TO PROTECT Her state. From covid nineteen. WHO employees put in place some restrictions on everybody. Including wearing masks. And they didn't like it. And they plotted to. Kidnap her. In some accounts are saying. Murder, her. And when you look at their faces that were finally released and I want to say there was about. Eight to ten individuals brother. So far. Some of them will be familiar to you. because. If you remember, we talked about how these militia people had stormed the capital of Michigan. We'll half of these guys were there. With. Rifles. Thirteen thank you. Beth thirteen individuals. More than ten. Because they think it was. It's their right. Under the Second Amendment. ENORM- not going to go another engine about the second amendment. But we have people that are. Interpreting. The law, the way they so choose and see fit and in the weight supposed to work. And you have leadership currently. Coming out. Of Washington. Telling guys like this to stand by. And they are acting on that. To the point and to the tune of. Kidnap. Democratic Governors. Democrat governors excuse me. But. At least these thirteen into white males. Are under arrest. Hopefully, they'll stay there. Unlike, the guy that kills. Mr Floyd he was grease released on a million dollar bail allowed to leave the state. Yes and I. That's why I said. In process. Okay. Because in this country whether you choose to believe it or not. I believe this. There are two sets of rules. The white rules. And the rules for everybody else. And it is reinforced time in time and time again. So when you have a story like we just posed in racism for America and you hear US almost open up every. That segment, the same way every week just about. Which is We get tired of having to report this stuff. Why does this happen quote America. But it doesn't get better. Because of two sets of rules. Pretty much. So if we're fighting for the quote soul of America. Better, define what the soul is. Right. Because some of these guys like the thirteen. Seem to think there's a color attached to it. WanNa. Add Brother No. No bad new. You cover that quite adequately brother thank you and quite eloquently. It's real. It is real. Hell folks but. Yet. Were telling people vote and that's how we open this episode was. Talking about. Right to vote. And that's A. That's a whole nother conversation. Vote. Because that also plays along with Trying to say. To set of rules. But but anyway. So we're going to play out here guys and. We. Really appreciate. You guys listening to. Two guys who normally would have this these conversations on a couch somewhere. Absolutely We appreciate it very, very much and if you want to comment on anything that you heard again, we like to reiterate what ways to contact us in email us hosts whether it s hosts at native opinion, Dot Com please make constructive because we we do get stuff sometimes that doesn't make it on the air why? Because it's just ridiculous. So he can also voice give us a voicemail. It's eight, six, zero, eight, hundred. Nine, five, eight, six, zero, eight, hundred, five, five, nine, five is that number. My Name is Michael Kicking Bear I'm from the Mash took quite why tribal nation guy over there he is. David grail. Citizen of the Cherokee Tribe Alabama. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Native Opinion Anche Sandra. Don't give my secrets away. And we. We will see you Wednesday on the Wednesday edition. Take Care of you guys. Bye. Bye. Be Saved.

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Of Marketplaces and Men: The History of Commodity Exchanges on Margin Call

Oil and Gas Startups Podcast

1:46:44 hr | 11 months ago

Of Marketplaces and Men: The History of Commodity Exchanges on Margin Call

"To the point of physical exchanges commodity exchanges the same dynamic agriculture. Same dynamic metals. Which is why you're if you think of of of sort of you know if you look at equity traders foreign exchange traders and interest rate traders. They all deal with with with certain it. Is that the market. You know speaking as a commodities guy. Maybe even speaking for george you may. You may agree now. just i. Viewed these markets he's commodity markets being ultimately such intelligent markets such self-balancing mechanisms Mechanisms that That have inherent correction you know Mackinaw as opposed to. I look at equity guys and all kinds of goofy stuff that they do over there and fx and interest rate guys. And obviously you have those markets that can run your in one direction or another because they're based on pieces of paper that don't have any allegiance at the end of the day to a product that s to be delivered. They can get so far out of whack. They literally bankrupt countries or your cause credit crises. Yo because there's nothing real that that that that causes a mechanism to take effect to say this. I don't line and there's money to be made bringing back into line and that's where in my opinion commodity markets rule. And they've already smart. This is margin. Call a podcast that explores the oil markets. We pull the pieces together to talk about. How every cut of the barrel is marketed and white prices behaved the way they do with your guides. Alex sandy and big george harris kept the less admits that he's wrong and he's a mmediately forgiven for all wrongdoings. Have you ever heard that. Get the fuck out my face with that shit motherfucker saying that should never had to pick anybody pieces of skull only kinda yummy threshold yours kinda threshold for the abuse that take. I'm right now. I'm gonna fucking race car and you got to read and i'm just saying i'm just saying that it's fucking dangerous to have a race car fucking read. That's all i could blow. Oh you ready to blow you. I'm ready to blow well. I'm a mushroom cloud laying motherfucker motherfucker every time my fingers touch brain. I'm superfly t and t. I'm the guns that are never own. Hello everybody welcome back margin. Call ondeck today here. Your hosts George periscope listen. Alex chandy in for another fun filled packed adventure of Or market musings and and Whatever else we decide to touch on commodity energy markets base. And maybe stuff. That's not necessarily involved with that even if tangentially Alex how are you doing today. But all right. George dona right for If we're gonna type the daycare say for glad to have some of the craziness of the elections behind us. Even though it is too. But i can't wait for the stuff to be swept. Aside can wait for this year to be swept aside but but that said that aside you know we live day today and we're here today. Did this episode is entitled of of of men and marketplaces said. Maybe a bit of a a bit of a nice little stroll through Futures exchanges and and how How commodity markets of devolved to where they are and of course. One of the biggest daddy's in in the commodity markets is the chicago mercantile exchange. Where you know folks in the energy industry Nowhere the the price of crude oil and and the price of gasoline and all those are recorded and published. But before we get into that george I just wanted to bring up. Just just educate our our audience out there to to all things. Greek i did. I did over the last weekend Watch a and. I'm going to call it a greek movie because you is. It was set increase. Greece The guns are the never owned and yearn our own and again one of the delete. Delete delete greek character was was a partisan was again plagued by the most famous non greek greek actor that all he would could muster glenn quinn the most famous mexican great shirty like cam absolutely intelligence now. Gaza never own is Is a great movie. I said it's you know it's actually That the that areas is where you know. It's not exactly there but it's where all the olives come from released. The best olives in the world by some people's opinions in the islands on the main is it. It's it's in the south of the south of melanin in peloponnesus near kalamata so to the where the kalamata olive country mural. Yeah and there's another town they're called. Messina missing nia excuse me and Yeah lauda history out there. I mean those were the original greeks. That went out and settled kind of the heel boot of italy on where you got a lot of the same towns that are out there in italy. I mean you have a messina italy and you have a messy nia in greece. And yeah and it's like It's it's analogous to jersey in york in england or new jersey in new york in the united states when they settled it in. So yeah right there and It's it's a beautiful part of the country Kind of close to where my father's from not exactly though but yet it's in it's in the mainland for sure a great movie and hor to history and that has its own you know historical perspective with their roles in holding back of the nazis and even going down to crete holding the shipping lanes which essentially based on a true story right. The now did put these massive guns there to do to sort of To to sort of protect into the gnc right or to shoot down that naval vessels going by right. Yeah absolutely and the whole premise. Was that When they when when lucile any was charge you know they were gonna cut up the globe and kms going to get the mediterranean africa so to speak and hiller the right we're going to get northern europe in out east into russia And so you know he came. My grandfather told me stories growing up where they essentially destroyed the italian Contingent of the axis and hiller had to send five taint divisions down. And you know the story goes that operation barbarossa which was his plan to violate the nonaggression pact with the soviet union. The whole time. And that was supposed to take place in april. But because mussolini was not successful in taking the balkans and thus the shipping lanes to supply rommel in the african theatre or in question he had to divert five panzer tank divisions down and essentially my grandfather being part of these forces they were overrun but it took them four months three to four months and they eventually held crete that island which is in their midway between africa and europe and the shipping lanes were thus maintained by the allies in raleigh. Was shut off. So that was that was first part. And the second part operation barbarossa which was supposed to take place in april when the frost broke now couldn't get underway until late july or august. And that is what was probably the most at least chronologically or time-wise the most important factor in the in the Rif nazis being stuck in stalingrad in the winter winter and had they had rarely time on their side and left in april. They could have easily been in stalingrad by september october. And then just hunkered down for the winner. But and and that's where you get the two front war that eventually spelled the nazis in the reich in the axis powers demise on so that there is a lot of history there that took place in the balkans Lot of heroes. That you know aren't really talked about both greece and the british who supported them Because it was definitely a team effort and part of the reason there was also getting to the balkans and secure in the balkans was to be able to get the oilfields fright in baku in in the black sea because that was sort of a source of oil for the for the german more. Mitch machine are required source of oil for the german war. Machine is is that accurate. Yes absolutely but that was probably more long-term picture just keeping the shipping lanes so that fuel supply can get into africa. Over was was was job. One right 'cause you know before you talk about energy policy or or securing energy For a buildouts subsequently after effort were comes to an end yet actually win the war and as we talked in the first episode right wrench winston churchill and and a g farben and hitler deciding to go to war only when he knew he could convert his coal into a petroleum for from the process. The g farben patented in one two nobel prize for So yeah absolutely It was It was it was definitely a a key point history In world war two history for sure and and that's where you know. A lot of these movies come from always always interesting tangents right oil business. I and just another thing for for for a lot of our listeners out there. This time of year is sort of coming up into the holidays. Thanksgiving is coming up. And then christmas will be sure. No no very very close around the corner from that My my my association with guns and river never own And here's another tangent. It is To christmas movies is sir. David nevin was played. One of the major roles in the gunnison ever own and just for folks who ever want to see a good movie. That isn't a christmas movie but is sort of can be viewed as a christmas movie is to see the original the first Installment of the panther. Our sir david. Niven plays the pink panther with peter sellers in its setup in the swiss alps during winter and snow An kind of you that as you know more so than your traditional christmas movies. That's probably my favorite russia's movies is the pink panther so there's my dinner Diehard diehard is a christmas movie. There's there's no best anyway. Yeah yeah on to bigger and better things. Don't man this that dumpster refined at his twenty twenty can't get behind his fast enough but We're united slogging through. Were staying optimistic for sure and You know here. We are Doing one of the things we love which is reaching out to our folks The digital wildcatters in and educate them a little bit telling some stories. Until let's let's let's talk a bit about commodity exchanges in commodity markets the actual physical marketplace's themselves because they are so core central To the energy business to the oil business. they're very corn central to the commodities business And the whole concept of commodity exchange is is not new. The formalized one's been around for a couple of hundred years but the concept itself is a lot older than that right out. The first you know the whole concept of having a place where people could bring physical commodities you know in the old days back in in in history was more agricultural commodities to where they can they can come and exchange that hap- mechanism by which they can trade goods And settle them and have rules around the settlement dates back to To the babylonian times six thousand years more at the samaritans actually probably have the the oldest recorded form of commodity exchange. George if you want to get into the color there At the be really interesting because that concept has come all the way six thousand years to where we are today with. cme and ice and yo- the big commodity exchanges in the world but it's it started in the message. tamen absolutely. i mean hama robbie's code. Which was you know. This is the same time and hobbies code back in ancient sumeria You know spoke to these types of contracts you know. They had other things like the eye for an eye and a and a hand for a hand and stuff like that but on top of that you know provided he warned thief or a. You know a someone who who you know was was up to nefarious dealings on you know. They had essential market. I don't want to save market but they had understandings for delivery of of certain commodities goods and services and it right there in the code historians have been able to suss out basic futures contracts. Not necessarily the contracts that we see today as far as how we understand there to be. You know the futures contract It was there for was futures contract in the sense that it was for the future delivery of a certain good now the only thing not the only thing but one main key differences is that price wasn't left to be discovered like we have today with supply demand open outcry and markets screens kind of popping. All over the place You know the price was set forth and and delivery for certain amounts of type of is good was all set forth in contract to be delivered in the future. And so that's where you get almost it's inception its birth if you will over sixty five hundred years ago as clearing mechanism in the babylonians very strict about their rules right you. You're not gonna wind up at or no increase in in times of i'm robbie right and so that's kind of like that. That's essentially you know. From ancient times to the stone age lasted for what hundreds and tens of thousands of years. So this this market dynamic lasted for six thousand years until about three hundred years ago where you get the rice exchange in japan Formed in the seven early seventeen hundreds in osaka of yeah for the purposes of trading rice For delivery in the future and but this is where the mechanism of of markets and price discovery was was introduced. There right alexander data price in the future against marie. Your delivery right. Yeah and and the reason why. That was a big You know kind of wrinkle is because the samurais controlled the most of the the the inventories or the caller ear harvests of rice. Because that's what they were paid. They opted to be paid rice versus being paid in yen because they felt that if they could control the supply of rice or even if they had all of it meter out how was dispersed disseminated. They could essentially. 'cause it's price artificially i it would be illegal today But you know colluding via a cartel amongst different samurai. you know family's house is Spend a while. Since i've seen a movie show gun and i remember how those things worked out. But but yeah you could you. It essentially manipulate the price of rice and get more yen for your buck so to speak so they were. They were being the physical that they own against against money against paper that would be converted into money at some point in the future and they had a view of what supply-and-demand because guess what they were the the biggest park maker out there right or they were with the warehouses a dad a new a good view of better view than most of what karn stock. What's right or available stock fascinating stuff in and though it's not written in textbooks. I'm sure that they were. They probably had a monopoly on force to and there were probably some southern tax on the bagley were samurai at margin. Call right out one. You'd wanna get from samurai or an organization right. Yeah goodfellas comes to mind. Pay me jabhat. Year don't care. Amy amy snow. Yeah trying to keep g. rated. But i get your bro. Yeah But yeah and then now fast forward one hundred thirty five forty years later i formalized agricultural commodity exchanges exchange was happened here in the us in chicago chicago board of trade on one and we know that the equities markets wall and broad in new york Probably predate this as far as equities and stocks and and and back then there were. I'm sure a lot of similarities in the genesis but here in margin call while we will talk Equity markets interest rates bonds and then even some currency pairs or sovereign bank You know central bank dealing doings as a pertained to energy in global geopolitics. You know margin call. we're going to keep it. You know commodity in focused for the most part when she say. Oh yeah absolutely. It's a it's a deep enough subject all by itself but the parallels their way you you would get sort of you know you to give you context. It's it's you have to sort of go in and explain a story or on equities or Foreign exchange because he's far are tied to each other right. They're all settled in currency at the end of the day for the commodity markets. At least at the stage where we're now at episode foreign giving you guys view or a rounded view on on the mechanisms before we go deep into certain topics It was sort of still. It was prudent to just talk about the commodity exchanges in agriculture always came Came first because you know it's a market that's driven by time time meaning seasonality right sure and you need. Farmers needed a mechanism for they could forward sell there so that they could monetize it. Get money so regardless of how they harvest came in him and better worse-than-expected. They had money to buy seat to plant for the following. Right at this mechanism was what enabled that. Yeah and and you know i. I'm with you there but for our guys who out there who might not understand it in such terms Think of it this way. you know. i'm a farmer. And i got a crop and it's you know it was just saying he thirty dollars a bushel to to break even for to make money my break even somewhere around ten eighteen to twenty dollars a bushel and the market right now is trading. You know my crop has just started and it will be ready for harvest and about four months but so many things can happen in four months and so while my crop is being raised is is coming to to to harvest. I have the capability via futures markets or the board of trade in this sense to sell it forward so it's february or march. I won't harvest until august right now. A spot spot is another Is a fancy word for cash or for the actual physical right now. I will buy it from you on the spot. So spot is trading at thirty dollars a bushel. A farmer would love to get that price in this hypothetical. But he can't 'cause it's not come out of the ground yet it's still in the course of being you know developing And if the if this but there is now with the mechanism in the inception of futures markets if in six months right now. The august contract is trading for thirty two. I have the capability. Now is a farmer to sell it on paper for thirty two dollars and if something happens where there's a huge harvest and the market gets flooded. You know people come and harvest before me because they're trying to get ahead of an impending market downturn collapse in prices. I don't care. Because i've already sold it forward in august on an august contract for august delivery for thirty two dollars and so even if the price of my physical goes down to say ten dollars by the time number. This hypothetical we're talking. It's march february march april. If by august he goes down. Let's say something ridiculous like ten or fifteen. I don't care because i've sold it on paper at thirty two so i'm happy to sell the spot now. Six months later in august at ten or twelve dollars an fuss lose all that money. I happy to sell that spot because now that futures that i sold in august for thirty dollars i can. Now buy back. I've sold it back in february march or february for thirty two dollars. I can buy it back for twelve dollars and fuss net twenty dollars on the paper. So that's what we call. Hedging and hedging is why the futures markets were essentially created at least in agriculture and then subsequent for energy. Tonight job there. did i still take. So it's it's kind of a wordy topic but indeed the other. The other mechanism is as being a farmer. And i have the the soybeans cotton are the wheat you know once it comes to harvest At at time of delivery. I go back your conversation that we had with podcast episode. One we talked about negative crude prices at At contract expert is you. You have to make delivery. So that's what the farmer will do say hit here we go. I sold you cotton or wheat or soybeans at thirty dollars a bushel. For august august. Delivery time i've just harvested it and i put it on a railcar karnei bring it into chicago and there you go. I'll give it to you right. You bought it from me. at At at at at that price. So i can do physical delivery to settle tracked out or i can do financial delivery means. I'm sitting out in waukegan. And i'll sell it to the To the local market twelve. And then i'll close up my futures contract by back twelve dollars. I sold thirty and they get a financial offset their against Against the physical. That i sold in my local market either way it works right. And that's the whole basis for that for that mechanism. And that's the basis for we talk about oil futures in wti and brent that is the basis that the basis behind though in oil. Because we're talking about specific grades. You know it's a bit more of a hedging market than a physical delivery market of each. It's grown to being the being that way. But we'll you know but the mechanism still holds right. So we have you have at the board of trade forms in in eighteen forty eight and yet the london metal exchange in eight hundred seventy seven and that was for the trading similar copper lead saint for metals again the same way for miners right to to finance working capital to go expand the mind deeper. You know to be able to sell future production today. Grab the money today. And then use that to fund the business going forward shortly after that yet the produce exchange. That's where you got futures and butter and eggs and perishables if you remember george talking about Things like cabbage rights are that. Doesn't you know it it it can be stored but it doesn't store forever right. It's falls after a while. The produce actually had to shut down in world war one and then came back after world war one. It was reorganized under the name the chicago mercantile exchange in nineteen nineteen th. Cme which still exists today which is now a team exchange. Where would fall it all right yet right. Just i guess a little briefly because you wanna talk a bit more about the mechanisms least touch on them on the oil side You know the wti light sweet crude contract started trading as a futures contract on the nymex which was based in new york city In nineteen eighty three under the seat symbol seattle The nymex eventually bought other. Cme doesn't exist anymore even though some old timers like myself. Maybe they'll call it. The nymex go call it. The nymex or nymex crude on the flipside brent crude and brent and gas oil futures started trading on the it the international petroleum exchange in london. Nine hundred ninety eight and for people there you know for our our european listeners and people in the oil business everyone knows i we Right there was. it's it's it is one of the premier gathering Times for the energy industry in london. The ip was was bought out by ice theatre continental exchange which is a very interesting change all by itself and maybe probably worth an ex An episode all by itself just given where that exchange came from and what it's grown into i that's the energy complex in the one thousand. Nine hundred eighty started trading futures. And then you have sort of the explosion of love your from crude to find products to all different types of grades Natural gas Power all these things start coming on in formalized exchanges meaning it's a spec- specific great To be cleared based on delivery at a specific location and the whole benefit of doing that is i can I have relatively a friction. Lewis transaction costs because the exchange stands behind clearing. They will make sure that. If i'm buying and selling that i will get delivery or i will get paid Because they met the manage The credit aspect Behind the scenes In these markets. Otherwise you know in in in a where we call over the counter market a a one to one market. I have to negotiate with everyone after. Check their credit. I have to be willing to extend them credit An it's critical market at that. It's a physical direct brokered market at that point and and that was going to be one of my rhetorical questions you for our listeners. Ships of know information as we. We go on this journey. You know why. The the for the exchanges. Alex i mean why. Can't i just go to your. And say hey. I got a thousand barrels of crude oil. And you know you have a need for them. Can't we just do a direct deal For six months in the future We could hypothetically right. But but what. If i say come up five months later and say oh. The dog ate my home. Remember those barrels. i told you i had. I'm not gonna have him. And so now all of a sudden and i've taken we've entered a contract. You're still you still got money on it right you. You sold it or seizing. I sold it and And i kind of took your money for even if it was just a portion of it of which you know. The balance was due on delivery But i still have a net transfer of money from you. Or you know some sort of currency from you to me and i haven't delivered to you at all because we did a a forward versus futures deal and we can go into that. But why the need for the exchange. Even if i'm asking rhetorically olives Because it ensures delivery in an insurance counterparty performance. That's the biggest part of it is an insurance market right because in in the case of a forward tonight georgia and i have done this deal on the side to trade Barrels of oil six months from now. And george doesn't perform and here i am. I've made plans. I have stuff that i need to do. I'm counting on those spouse coming not to mention that i put out the money lease a portion of that money in order to buy that That crude oil. Yo-yo it if i can't trust people then you know i won't be able i i'm a more reticent to do forward deals and if i'm not doing forward deals i don't have a mechanism by which i can monetize my my future production and then all of a sudden you have a market that literally seizes up and it and it in in a weird sense it becomes a market that you know is is really can be controlled by the likes of a john. Rockefeller the people with the big money. Jenkins right yeah. No they can control the market whereas the smaller producer the smaller consumer are at the mercy of what the prices are set by the big producers because they have the ability to set prices whereas in an exchange it's it's an absolute equalizer the exchange treats you know if it was alex. Oil company versus chevron doesn't make a difference the exchange trips us equally slung as we maintain our ability to to meet our margin requirements The exchange will clear us with no prejudice at all right. It doesn't treat us any differently. That's the biggest part of it. That's the shorts part of it. Why these markets exists. Which if we go back to our very first episode when you have a negative prices you know the the biggest victim of this is the assurance factor if he should write the conference effective. It's not there then. You don't have market anymore and then you're back to your almost like a middle ages type scenario deal with you. Direct right right ramseur. Yeah and that's in. That's the answer that you you hit on the head that i that i was trying to get at is that you know the need for the exchange was to convey confidence to the market that you buy you know if i sell to alex and then i don't deliver alex now is kind of he's in a sling and i'm you know. And he has some legal recourse. Who knows that's ugly and timely and costly but at the end of the day when you have an exchange and we both put those supposed to me going to alex vice versa. We go through an exchange the exchange clears it if i don't deliver. Alex still gets his delivered barrels and then they come after me and they're willing to do that because that's what they do they guarantee both sides Both of the delivery and payment obviously remittance of payment and so but and and this is how they functioned essentially from their inception back in the seventeen hundred arise exchange in more modern lee in eighteen. Forty eight with the chicago board of trade and really in the eighties. One thousand nine hundred eighty s with nymex and then. Now it's all under the umbrella but but they essentially back in. April came back with dr gate my homework and certain people even if it was on the retail side. Their screens blanked out so even if they were short. Think about this if you were short And your screen. Blanked doubt you didn't have the ability to cover actually capture your prophet so the entire and the other thing is is like you said the equalizer was the price discovery. Right price. discovery is supposed to be there and we're going to actually go into that now that everything's done on the screen we've alluded to the fact that the it's were kind of a staple and almost like a tradition a time-honored tradition until the screen came probably In the last twenty years but more so in the last ten to twelve years that completely eradicated the pits but the pits were a magnificent phenomenon. Dynamic were true price discovery Was allowed because at the end of the day. If i can hear somebody yelling out a price. I can not only eight where the market it is but decide whether or not wanna buy it or sell it at that price because i tend to want to sell lower than him if i want to get done or i can decide if i want to buy it. Because he's selling it for a low enough price who knows when your screen blinks out and you don't know which way is up or down. I mean that's categorical horse. Shit and these and these these commodity exchanges the cme particular one of the biggest dogs on the block ought to be ashamed of themselves seriously. Because it completely eroded the confidence that the market's the participant art assumed almost with. I want to call it biblical faith but to some people with almost biblical faith if you ascribe to that kind of that belief system You know in an an and you find out. There's a little bit of a wizard behind the curtain. You know address. Quick concept i mean just just to just to expound on what we say price discovery. What does that mean just for. Folks who des willie are so price. Discovery is kind of the beauty of the commodity markets. Insofar as i see them. And that's where you get the pits and we've talked about trading places last Last time we were together and And the craziness in that scene where everybody's yelling at each other. But you know the pits were set up in a quasi amphitheater call it bleacher semi circular. Where you have people stacked on top of each other where you could see each other's face and you're supposed to be able to hear everybody but obviously what everybody yelling. It's hard to make things out. Nuts where hand signals which won't from the edge. Yeah so so. There would be no ambiguity. Which by the way folks. That is the picture on the masthead for march and call is a picture of the pit right because it represented not only commodity markets. But it was a great metaphor for rock capitalism. Right that is the market. The that smith talked about where you know prices cleared where supply and cleared. Just having me a bunch of guys yelling at at each other wearing some god off. Lau jackets denote. What firms. They work for when by the way jake and call it. If you're listening it's probably a great idea for some merch right so so at the end of the day you know what i love about the pits. I wouldn't say the. But actually one of the biggest things i loved and said it was an in a proximal setting very close and personal you had all the buyers and the sellers next to each other and when you have all the buyers and all the sellers or a big a large portion of the market even if it's eighty five ninety percent or whatever you know at least back in the day that's what it was because this is well before retail and then and then the added variable is transparency of information right. Everybody needs to have the same information and formation that gets released publicly via government. You know inventory reports needs to come out at the same time and everybody has access at the exact same time. Nobody gets inside baseball. Tip off of what's going to go down. And that's you know hearkening back to the movie trading places but But yeah you know when you have that you have. Everybody advocating for themselves rama producer of something. And i need to sell it or i'm a buyer and user of something and i need to buy it and have them all together. You have true market price. Transparency true price discovery and the exact opposite of that. Insofar as i see it anecdotally is trying to buy a car between five different dealers. All in different offices scattered across town. Where you really go in and and you got a chevy silverado late model with this. That and the other and in everything. And he's like. I can get it for you there and then some other guy jackass on. Tv has a teaser rate. Gets you in the door. And then he baits and switches and because you have to go back and forth indeed this dance of amongst these these these jack holes you gotta sit here and just slog through the mud if you had them all together like yelling out prices and provided the car truck or whatever was the same type or standard manner enough to you right exactly and we can get into fungibility. And that's the other side of it is fungible contracts one contract as good as the next the next because they all have the same specs. Everything has been standardized has been Deemed the same The only thing that's left to discover is price and then time delivery. Obviously when you're talking in different months. But yeah i mean if you had all these guys next to each other then you'd find out the real price of two thousand and twenty one silverado with l t z package embodied on. Who cares who knows but my light and these these chaotic places but there were rules associated with them that people followed very carefully. Because if you violate those rules you got thrown out of the exchange and you competing with any blessed fraser and right. If you didn't get punched out right it's it's not a place where you welched on a bat right or or or came through or traded through the bid. Ask you would you would be. You would be severely punished by sometimes physically for doing that now. I think we've lost a bit of that in the electric trading aspect of anonymously. 'electronic trading is way more efficient. You can do lot more deals. I mean when i started off as a traitor and we would trade through the pet through the natural gas. Bet y'all it. Was that classic scene. I had two phones on each year. You're talking to who've my floor. Brokers and each one of them was related to me where the bed in the ask was whether it was from a big institutional pit trader or local and independent that was making markets and they would tell me the price i would write it down at this little machine that i would stamp it so i had a paper of when i did the deal and then of course at the end of the day i would call my floor broker and then he would recite you to ten at this price and then fifteen than twenty and then twenty-three than twenty-five not take them off and then in the evening might clearing broker would send me a sheet and i would Ticket now electronic has made that redundant trite. 'cause i get tempt stamps. Everything is done. It's cradle to grave and there's a lot of efficiency that comes from that. But you know you you know similar to sort of the cme example from from april is at the edges trying to yell. Sort of it gets to that point. Where you're is there are these the. There's an advantage to some of these algorithms that the human possibly can't have But they're there to supposedly keep an orderly market but algorithms can show up and disappear in the market can go referring or they can exacerbate a fruitful whereas in the pit the locals would never let that happen just for the selfish reason that one of them didn't want to be in. That position writes that there was sort of this. Unknown ruled that or unspoken rule that they would keep orders in the market. I not let it get out of hand because it was bad for her for their own business but it was bad for the business of the market by itself so that but on the other side you know you ask any trader. Tell you how many times the locals would screw you out of a deal right or trade right through you so you didn't have as much price discovery as you do looking at a screen nuts say you know. It's the price of progresses. There has been some cost to that right now. There's always pros and cons in. There's always trade-offs but i'd i'd take you on further. You know i knew. Stories of brokers when there were markets and freefall or excuse me local traders that would step in and buy no and neither young kid to just by. And he's like why are we buying. He's like because if this is true. The world's over with and it doesn't matter anyway. I'm happy to just scoop and stuff on the cheap and so yeah. I mean ob- absolutely so when we talk about futures markets versus forwards. We alluded to it a little bit earlier. You know what may differences insofar as you see it. We talked about futures contracts It's a contract is just a piece of paper. But it says i'm done either by or i'm going to sell and then subsequently deliver a commodity let's pick oil wti because that's the easy one For delivery read say in january because That's that's that's being traded at least will be traded in the next week or two At least start trading. So so you know. That's that's a futures contract and and we've talked plenty about the c. l. contract on the nymex and then we will lead to a little bit on. Ice the brent contract. The what's what's a forward using. The foreign is is really behavior. Wise behaves just like a futures contract. I would say the big differences there more aspects to a forward negotiable than what the futures contract the futures contract is. This is the great. This is the location of delivery this time by what you have to limit what you're negotiating is price right. Negotiating today. meaning on the electronic screen is the bid and the ask so whereas the seller. Where's the buyer and house that spread moving whereas the forward market may resemble that at least from a time in delivery perspective. But you get to negotiate certain things because you need that flexibility You know. I don't remember back to and we're to direct counterparties right. I'm going way after nagoya. Someone else right. Yeah and we're and we're even if we're doing it through brokers voice brokers. Were doing it with each other and we are on the hook we are. We are beholden to each other versus being. You know having the exchange being the intermediary so for folks listening. When i buy you know everything is anonymous. So when alex. And i hide pathetically click i click a by and he clicks his cell at the same time We may very well get matched up. Where what he sold i bought. Because let's say this hypothetical on screen through an exchange a clearinghouse like like the cme you know we clicked it at the exact same moment in time and they matched us and we both took it to delivery. He delivered and i took delivery of and his barrels flowed from his tank to might take the at via the exchange in a futures contract. We with the whole time be anonymous. We don't really care and we don't care. All that he chairs is that he got his money for his barrels at a certain price that he agreed to right now. And all that i care about. Is that in january. When we did this for this futures contract for that when barrels flow for the month of january. I get my barrels in january and that they're on spec which the exchange also guarantees a forward contract is like i. Those contract constraints are little too nebulous. Need a little bit more wiggle room Like that right. Yeah i go to you and say hey alex. I need some barrels for for for for january delivery. But i need in this. I don't need them all. yes. I need them. I need one hundred. I don't need ten thousand barrels. I need three hundred thirty three a day. You know and you know need him in cushing channel and it's not the forty two. api it's a forty six and then we negotiate right. We're not off a standard contracts negotiating. Now we we were using the wto as a marker as a benchmark but we're we're going to negotiate a premium discount for the for the for the quality for the for the delivery location as well as for the The the the size right. What i want so it's a bit more of a one to one then here. I absolutely chair that it. You know who. George is. You will will george make good on his side of the deal. We have to enter into a contract. We have to check each other's credit credit. And that's a big. That's a big issue here. Well in in these markets because you talk about your hundreds to thousands to tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of barrels at market price is a massive amount of monetary value. That someone is going to put themselves out to say. Hey i am going to be exposed to this person actually delivering this value to me Or paying me for it so they better have really good credit right and that can be a negotiation as well on moons new presby on not as credit worthy as the people you're typically of dealing with and so even if i'm if i'm the buyer I pay up a little. Bit of a premium Just that you wouldn't necessarily make somebody else pay for the same exact barrel delivered at the same point in time at the. It's just just higher risk and so you. We negotiated that price. I understand it and you obviously understand it. Either or the deal doesn't get dot right and and and it absolutely matters snow right so here. You're not to pick on the good folks at chevron but you'll hear it matters show. You know the difference between alex's oil company chevron is is very very stark and it matters right from from a credibility perspective from credit worthiness perspective but what forwards do is actually get business. Done outside of this this hub. Where business needs to get done. Because i have this tiny little teapot refinery in the in the ship channel and he mccray delivered there. I don't need it delivered in cushing and then after bring it down. And plus. I don't really i can. I am looking to run higher. Api crude than than stand contract. So it's forward to sort of is the next rain if you think of. It is the exchange of saturn and ford at the rings. That gonna sit around them. Not many have truly one off deals but you know that starts to get away from the whole exchange concept but the exchange concept is very important from a caring perspective but then also price discovery and you have a benchmark price that no one is going to question right. it is clear price is being it. Settles and then. I can write contracts against it again coming back to when i don't trust with that settled prices. You could see how sort of the tremors kinda go all the way down to the foundation. right Exchanges incredibly important because of the shorty the orange that they bring to the market. And that's and that's a lot not a lot of it or the majority but a big portion. Even if it was a hiccup in time Markets took pause a market participants took pause. Because some of that gotta wrote it on april twentieth of this year. simply because but yeah you know great You know yeah yeah was thanks for solidify that or crystalizing. That my mind. Even if i knew as much as i did. It's always good to hear it again. But when you talk about the futures price discovery that we just talked about Why the need for futures You know as opposed to you know we could go direct but but what you know. Let's talk about futures curve And the various costs of of kerry insurance storing and then the phenomenon that develops When you dec- prices along those curves whether they go up or down or sideways or whatnot. Yeah and that's that's that's really down to it's a it's a real. It's a mathematical concept that drives The the price of a good in the future And it's it's a very simple concept and incredibly powerful one so folks you probably heard of the concept of the forward curve which is not what it really means is. What is the forward price at a certain point in time. So every month out says january month for crude february march The price indicated for delivery at that time now those that price will will move up and down based on supply and demand and activity going on in in the exchanges but at the end of the day passed a whole to to a very very basic formula. Meaning that if. I have a good today. The cost of storing that good plus the insurance For the next thirty days. I take my price today at all. Those costs that is theoretically might might price next time value of money. I'm value money right so the cost of capital associated with with with carrying that inventory so if the price next month is higher you know if the indicated prices higher than my cost to to to hold it today and carried all the way to to to to next month. Then you know there's a natural arbitrage there say look i can keep buying today and and selling tomorrow because what what my actions will do is. I'm capturing that difference above my cost to carry to the next month or the month after that and my actions of bind today naturally raise the price today from buying lottery. Everyone's spying and then everyone simul selling that forward month lower stat price until it hits that equilibrium until it is reflective of the cost of carry from one months the next and then the opposite happens right if if the cost of carries is lower if if if the price is lower the cost of carry then it doesn't behoove me to carry inventory today For next month. I it's cheaper for me to buy it at next month's cheaper price and sell off my inventory today because i can buy cheaper than it would be to own it and and cost carry the cost. And it's this movement that is referred to as tango and backwardation right because that forward curve will flip and that's the it's an indication of to supply tightness near-term versus Into the forward but it's also a reflection of the fundamental cost carry absolutely. Yeah and and you know. I remember hearing about these concepts and how abstract they were back fifteen years ago or so and then literally about ten years ago just an old dog. I used to call him coach. He was an exact for trade groups at all the majors chevrontexaco and just an he had retired like three times over and then gone back to work and got another package and he just looked at me and said hell tangles over fifty five cents a month. He goes no wonder people are going to be selling. Excuse me buying and filling up tanks. And he'd the wakey crystallized it and i really said coach. Break it down for me. So you know if he is out there Might wanna eat your pencils and out but The way i like to look at it is you know if you have storage storage is probably going to be at least in the oil. Markets storage is going to be the most expensive so depending on you have a long term lease in cushing oklahoma with a big pipeline and tank operator up there You know you're going to be able to negotiate between twenty five thirty five and upwards of forty cents if it's shorter lease and you were kind of late comer when when when people were buying up storage assistant for barrel right george forty cents per barrel. Yes absolutely and so so on the cheap side. You're going to get it for about a quarter a barrel per months or on the more expensive side. Forty maybe forty five cents. Your your insurance is going to be about three cents to a nickel hypothetically speaking and if even if it's ten which it's not it doesn't matter because the point still holds even at an assumption of forty five forty cents high expensive storage costs five ten cents call it fifty and then with with tv 'em time value money interest rates being at all time. Not all time lows but damn near right on the. They've his any lower than negative dribbling. Along the bottom the federal funds rate is technically not as low as it was when it was zero or twenty five basis points for seven years or five years in a row but even still money velocity is so slow right now that it's essentially still dinner zero so call it a penny to three cents so at the end of the day on the high expensive in. You're talking forty cents. Plus ten plus another three so fifty cents per month per per barrel fifty. Five cents per barrel per month of kerry would be expensive. And so all you would have to do is you can go on the cms website and look for a you know a delivery. Settle price for january. February was were still trading december. So no check that. We are in january so january delivery february so on and so forth and essentially add that fifty to fifty five cents a to be sure to every month. If the price is for every subsequent month starts to go where the very next month is more fifty five cents or more than the month before it then contain go starts to present and the the natural easiest trade is to buy as much oil as you can. If you have a tank Stick it in that tank and just go and sell it out. you know. Think about it like this. If it's if it's a six month play six months times. Fifty cents is three dollars. So if i'm talking about january if i look at january and july six six months times fifty cents. A barrel is three dollars. If the difference between january delivery and july delivery is more than three dollars than all you would have to do. It's a set it and forget it play to buy as much oil as you can buy store and it's literally where you're only limited to how much you can. How much tanks. How many how much tank capacity you have you store it. And then you sell it out on the curve and you wait for those two to converge and you capture the difference so in this. If i'm buying january physical and i'm filling up tanks and six months out it's ten dollars higher. I'll sell it on the future for. Let's say fifty thousand barrels and it's ten dollars between those two months january and july remember. It cost me three dollars to store insurance and for the money the interest that i'm going to tie up three minus ten is seven dollars a barrel time fifty thousand barrels three hundred and fifty thousand dollars that is done instantaneously when there's a lot of tango on the market and that actually happened back in april because prices were so low and fell off a cliff so hard on the front end of the curve meaning closer to us in time that not contain go but it was deemed super contained. Go weren't people weren't making five six seven dollars a barrel. And they were making twenty thirty dollars a barrel lot of trading houses reporting yeah big profits and continued trading this absolutely and and so the other side of that word if our first word maintained home as tango. The other one is backdated to where the prices nearest to us. January is more expensive than the next month. Which is more in february which february would also be more expensive than march and so on and so forth and in that case. The market is backward. It does not behoove you or benefit you to buy physical and stored in a tank. It actually benefits you to sell and keep taxes empty as possible because it's more expensive and says you're getting more for barrel near term than you are. I'm back on the backside and that that that usually happens in times of of of either demand spiking or or supply falling not demand but supply falling off a cliff somehow getting cut right yup in the near term and the in the near term so some some sort of market disruption happens where sanctions happen against some. You'll east country in three thousand three million barrels daily production that was normally out and about being traded. Now all of a sudden gets taken off the the you know the the the global market because a bunch of countries that matter anyway have said to buy and sell these barrels internationally will be illegal and that's the whole trillions. It's an interesting concept because we talk about can tango backwardation just from a time perspective. But you you also have that inbuilt type of Which is what makes it so absolutely fascinating. Is you have that same behavior that's driven by distance and it's driven by Quality right so meaning that you you have a natural spread between location a which is very well supplied and location be. That isn't that has a higher price because it is isn't as well supplied so it's in the same cases tangle on on a on a futures exchange is simply. I'm i'm looking at today's price versus the cost to carry to get to tomorrow's price at the same location in physical markets as i look at today's price plus the cost to transport it to another location farther down the line and if dat y'all there the the the constrain point is not the tank space for the have but if i have the logistic capacity pipeline space or truck or rail marine to get it from point a to point b. I can capture that same. Spread right In in In in the refined products market. There's a built in our. But i don't know if that's the right way to say it between houston ship channel and your harbor which is why getting line space on the colonial hype. Line is incredibly heart. Is that a first name. Yeah absolutely on sept. right. It's yeah it's not a storage play. It's a transportation. Yeah and the folks that we talked about last time we were together. The marc rich's the glencorse vitale's. They've made a living hanging their hat on optimizing the logistics and the transport of the commodity between in time and space And doing those location trades to where able to capture that globally. Get the barrel from eight to be. Yeah and and not only that. But they understand the timing so well An and then they see the markets opened the arbs arbitrage opportunities open close and they know the timeliness where they can almost thread. The needle allotted time some of that. Some of the smartest guys you'll ever come in contact with When you meet some of them and that's the point for the folks that are learning about the markets yo. Y'all if you're just a person that was reading the newspaper. And you believe you're you see the the price of wti at cushing or the price of brent Which is based offer delivery point in in in the north of england. It's really a virtual delivery point at this point. did not represent the full extent of the market. They're just some think of them as two flashlight. Sitting out in the middle of the of of a very dark room or auditorium but then there is so much activity going on with regards to other locations. The the the the the cost to carry the cost of transport and capturing those differential and this whole market is highly networked which is what makes the market so efficient at the end of the days. The fact that y'know a certain location or certain great can in a short term. Sort of go go out of bounds with its norman relationship. But what happens. Is you know from a trading perspective. Is you find. Supply will come into the market and sales happen will happen. That will bring it back to its. Its its relationship. Whether it's a cost carrier relationship or supply-demand relationship. These markets are by nature very intelligent markets because they operate in a network type of of of manner. Yeah and even before you get to second and third order of you know parts of that equation when you talk about the timeliness or the logistics and the of carey you can just talk about the absolute differentials of bosnia light versus a you know a wti or or or bonny light. That comes out of west africa. I mean there's a myriad of grades not just west texas intermediate or some of this hour's that come out of the gulf coast or the balkan light sweet that comes out of north dakota. Those are different grades with their own specific specs Those kind of grades literally occur all over the globe and not always but for the most part net back to the two benchmarks That we've we've spoken of the ice. With the brent contract the ice exchange intercontinental exchange with the brand contract and the siamese wti contract and and even if brent is kind of a global benchmark wti definitely is our domestic one Yeah all good stuff. Alex you know artemio options real quick. I know that will probably have an episode on that in and of itself. But you know if we a conversation about futures can't be done without even even some sort of mention of options You know and then and then the the basic premise of options That we have to get into how their price 'cause shoot. I don't even know how the price that actually supposed to have done. That's options get into the really really mathematical side of the game It's it's what we call a second order instrument meaning that you know you're not young if futures indicate price options are really a bet. It's a bet on top of a bet so think of it this way. You're you're standing in vegas on a at the roulette table and you're watching a guy playing relent and essentially what you're doing. An option is literally a site. Bet that you would take whether the guy who's playing the wheel is gonna get lucky or not right so amish really drive off multiple different Attributes so it's the change. The value of the option is driven by the change the underlying change of the price of the underlying asset. So think of an option as a bet on the price of futures are in in the case of people equity options at an option is driven the price of the underlying stock on which it's written right so it's price of the stock goes up or down the value of the option moves accordingly but in addition to that it's driven by the volatility in order of the price change if the price is moving up and down a lot as high volatility. You know it it it. It behooves a higher option price. Because you have a higher probability that it's going to hit the price to make it in the money or out of the money. We're get very esoteric here. There's an interest rate components to it. There's a time component to it And thinking or torch perfect. I'm thinking of the greeks. Yeah if your your dad's really and even one of them. Yeah and all that. The ugliest not played nuclear greek. But it really is. Ugly are only yeah. I mean the way. I learned to think of not options as insurance a bet on a bet is an absolute Articulate and correct way but kind of at least for my little simplistic mine. I like to think of it as insurance. Because if i you know like you said if i own you know let's just say i owned crude oil for back in march of of vizier. Let's say i owned June or or august crude oil contract right and so i was bullish or i thought that the market was going to go up here. I am holding august contract. But i got a ride this but if would now looking back hindsight twenty twenty this roller coaster to where it was trading at twenty dollars. I was trying to bottom pick it. You know twenty six o five was the last low in two thousand sixteen and that was alot that hadn't been seen since the nineties and here we are sitting six seven eight bucks below it and march around nineteen dollars and i'm just like i'm picking like a lot of people did even if they still got hurt. But because i can't see everything in front of me. And i'm scared i didn't buy it for you know you. You know in march. I didn't buy it from may riverine which was essentially the month being traded. I bought it for august and you know turns out at twenty bucks. I'd made a lot of money. But i had to write it all the way down to negative prices in that in that roller enter options of the two main ones. If you guys to get your pencils taper out For notes is a a call is the right to own something so think of it as like an insurance policy to buy something and a cell is an insurance policy or the right to sell something. Excuse me put sorry. sorry anyway. Yeah a call is for to buy or own something. A put is to sell something. And so as opposed to you know turning around and buying the august contract outright and then being on the hook for the margin calls Nod wink wink to us. that that would be You know kinda manifesting found at twenty Let's say one contract. And i have just enough margin and it's somewhere to the to now. They have increased a used to be like five or ten percent so at twenty thousand if crew was trading at twenty dollars a barrel for thousand barrels. The contract was worth twenty thousand dollars completely in this hypothetical And you only have to margin about five seven ten percents of two thousand dollars. Those those percentages subsequently increased as of late with all these crazy market volatility but. Let's just say. I had two thousand dollars and i didn't one contract. Well if crude oil goes down ten grand. I have to pony up ten gran if it goes down ten dollars. That's ten thousand dollars in value. That that contract oss. I have to margin. Call wire in ten thousand dollars just to keep that position hole or they will get me out at a laws. So let's let's drive into the mouth there. Yossi you put twenty two thousand dollars down on a contract worth twenty thousand dollars. Twenty thousand dollars worth of crude oil at twenty dollars. A barrel of modern thicken. Yeah now it goes down to ten dollars a barrel so it's lost ten dollars. A barrel on on a thousand contracts is ten thousand dollars. So you don't even let you put martin in the notional loss or gain. You're on the hook for dollar for dollar so you you've lost that contracts. Lost ten thousand dollars to the two thousand dollars. Been wiped out plus. Now you're in the whole for eight thousand dollars and they're still own it you have to bruni up another eight thousand dollars or we're going to get you out. George you have to pony up ten thousand dollars to come back up to two thousand dollars worth march. Ray ri- right. Its own. what they will do is they will liquidate the at ten. You'll take a ten thousand dollar loss. They'll take two thousand dollars and then you owe them another eight. So yeah now. Not only have. I lost my two thousand dollars of original margin. They force liquidated me is taken a ten thousand dollar loss. And i'm still on the hook for an additional eight thousand dollars. It's it's it's a catastrophic loss. Because you're you're you're leveraged right out the money you put in but you now oh You owe money now. The the flip side is on on the upside. If it goes up ten dollars a barrel now my my account balance goes up by ten thousand dollars which is in realize until i sell routed lose. Looks good on a on a on a day pl spread balance if you do sell it george. You've you've captured eight thousand dollars on two thousand dollar bet. We went to thirty dollars. I'd actually have captured a full ten. I captured all ten. Plus my under my my my first edition. My initial too was was not touched right and that goes back in my pocket with the ten. I make yeah. I'm up to twelve grand right. So knife cuts both ways. Absolutely it cuts a lot deeper when you go down. But who knows if i'm really long and my screen blinks out all this stuff so as opposed to doing all that which that's why. I called it roller coaster. I have the ability to buy an option. And it's like. I don't know this is going and i don't wanna do it for the near term because stuff's crazy. There is new virus from china. People are staying at home. Saudi arabia's pumping extra two million a day. Who knows how long they're gonna do that for. But i actually don't think it's gonna look like this in six months so i'll go out. And for the august contract. They have an option chain of calls and puts and in this case. I want to own it. I just don't want to buy the futures contract and so let's just hypothetically say for the august delivery. I think it's going to go back up to forty five dollars a barrel when we're trading twenty and so Options have you know. They have different names. One of them is at the money out of the money and in the money. And so the and so in this sense the calls the lower. They are because they're a right to buy the more near the money or in the money. They are so in this hypothetical august. An august call of for fifteen dollars is in the money. That option might cost you seven dollars when crude oil is trading twenty dollars. And so you're technically have our have are still losing two dollars because even if you own it at fifteen. It's cost you seven dollars for this amount. Fifteen plus seven is twenty two and the crude oil is only worth twenty dollars so it still cost you too. That's a little bit more into the weeds. I wanted to get but let's listen. Let's just say. I think it's going to go to forty five and i wanna buy a call option for thirty dollars and it costs me three dollars to do it for august delivery. I'm making up numbers here but you get my point. I will literally pay the exchange. Three dollars per barrel for thousand barrels. Saw pay them three thousand dollars and now between now and when the august contract comes to delivery if crude oil goes all it's a twenty dollars in the scenario and it goes all the way up to thirty dollars and on and on and on and on up to forty five dollars where i thought it would go because i looked at a chart and forty five looked like a good number then now i own it at thirty dollars and i've made fifteen dollars a barrel and all that but i my risk was only limited to the three dollars per barrel or three thousand dollars that i paid up on the front side and so even if i'm fifteen bucks a barrel you back out the three dollars i originally paid and i made twelve and so the things. The thirty dot when crude oil was trading at twenty. And i bought the thirty. It was out of the money by ten dollars as the markets went up and it went to thirty it was at the money and then effort went on and on and on up to this hypothetical forty five dollar price target. It was then well in the money and the value of the option. Reflect that because guess. Why have a contract now that allows you to buy a product. That's priced at forty five dollars for thirty dollars. It's massively valuable. No that relationship is not linear right. At the time you have remained yet. Your options expire. At a certain time. Everyday they lose value just on. What's called fe. that's one of the greets faded decay. And if you know the greek alphabet or not. It doesn't matter. Sega kinda sounds like t. Mt means time to me every day. That option is getting cheaper cheaper. 'cause it's one day at a time getting ticked off the calendar and that's coming closer to expiration and it's closer and closer to where the the more time Value that a option has meaning the further out. You go the more leads of the possibility that something can happen. Right our probabilities. It's all you have less time to capture the probability that this option is the underlying contract will go up or down depending buying a caller and your optional. Go into the money. It's not a linear relationship because once an option is deep inside the money it's the the rate at which it appreciates is exponential compared to the underlying itself right. So yeah it's it's going way into the into into the weeds on this. Maybe it's it's worth you know. I think probably we. We will probably have podcast episode where we bring in an option straighter and have them sort of talk through. 'cause there's so many strategies that you can do option but in caps and floors and both spreads and bear spreads and strangles and straddles It is a discipline all by itself. And generally you know in my trading career is the option status the guys on the options with the guys who respected the most because those guys were dealing with more dimensions that they were trying to manage with these instruments and china value with these instruments than your straight vanilla futures. Your trade straight physical forwards. Yup you got theta which is time to decay we already covered that then you got delta. Which means if if if crude oil goes up a buck why did my option only go up fifty cents and it's because well it depends on what price strike you brought it at versus where it was to begin with and that's called delta delta never even approaches one. It'll never go one for one point nine nine. And then you got vega which is ugly. And it's not even a greek right. It's ugly but it's essentially means volatility and and the price of an option can go up just because price goes from. It goes from fifty dollars to thirty dollars back to fifty down to zero back to twenty in five days. Twenty second derivative often area d'amato date out to say that we did that but if you have huge market moves day over day over day to wear. A asset is volatile vega and options will blow out just because the market doesn't know what it's going to do from day to day and so it's gonna price it very expensively just because of what happened in the past few days in this hypothetical and then there's which is your cost of financing julia. I'll save your money which you can never escape right. This is about cost money because it takes money to to to to to engage in your avocados capital no one's engaging these markets with free dollars because to their money yet look Obviously you know we can get into a lot of details. But i think at the end of the days to give you know the listenership an idea of how complex these markets are but at the same time is how they are so interconnected with each other. You know. I like coming back to this notion of network. It's a network physical time and distance and quality that drive prices that are not necessarily your benchmark prices but are important prices for delivering physical tall location. Where it's going to be used or consumed a stored There's that network and then there's the network pricing and time value and cost of carry. That is sort of mathematical basis that holds the social network in place that allows you to see when a particular portion part of the network whether it's a quality of a particular crude or quality of our grade of gasoline or diesel has deviated from where it should be as for these formulas and that's what allows the market to to react and bring them back to what we call yet what they should be fairly traded at Based on a cost of carrier time to to to to bring them to market or bring them to location so absolutely and and not only that but like the know who has these benchmarks in what sectors of the networks and the rivalries between them ri- we spoke of the cme and some of the nymex and then subsequent cme which kinda owns all of them and then the other big boy on the block the intercontinental exchange ice and and how. They're kind of like the eight hundred pound gorilla because ninety they spend commodity markets for the year. So yeah so the they could even be argued that they wore the cnn. Then for folkston in the southwest right the the lady running i for senate down there. Laughlin is the is the wife jeff. Jeffrey specter the ceo is there you go But here in a back to the point of physical exchanges commodity exchanges to same dynamic and agriculture exact same dynamic in metals Which is why if you think of of of sort of you look at equity traders and foreign exchange traders and interest rate traders. And they all deal with with with certain idiosyncrasies of the market you know speaking of commodities guy. Maybe even speaking for george you may you may agree with the yellow. Just i view these markets he's commodity markets being ultimately such intelligent markets such self-balancing mechanisms. You know That that have inherent correction Mecca clinics yes as opposed to look at equity guys and all the kind of goofy stuff that they do over there and fx interest rate guys. And obviously you have those markets that can run you in one direction or another but because they're spaced on pieces of paper. That's don't have any allegiance at the end of the day to a product that s to be delivered. They can get so far out of whack. The literally bankrupt countries your cause credit crises. Yo because there's nothing real that that that that causes a mechanism to take if fact to say. Hey this has got out of line. And there's money to be made bringing back into line and that's where in my opinion commodity markets rule and they've all much smarter absolute aren't yeah and and the genesis of the siyam need you know in my opinion garners a lot more respect even with its you know. It's it's rival rivalry with ice simply because you know it got its start essentially as the chicago board of trade. And then you talked about the what did it became. The was it the produce exchange right. Cme start office Marathon connecting off produce change in this sensually acquired in crafted in all the other subsequent boards of trade and and it changes Whereas ice you almost have this flash in the pan and this confluence of of of circumstances that just allowed this little podunk You know exchange powered by the atlanta power exchange right in our colonel called the continental power and lanta and just but but you have the right place. The right time of these banks who are literally You know they're they're scampering and fleeing from the enron debacle In in what was and they just acquired this small little exchange and atlanta and legitimized it. Because you know the the big banks bought into it and established as oppose a continental the intercontinental exchange which subsequently bought You know the the ip shandor the international petroleum exchange in london to to give legitimacy at on the crude oil side it's its inception was around power and then gas right and can of net gas and power but they did however do a lot of good and you spoke to a lot of it in an opening up markets deregulating and giving market transparency for that price discovery. We talked about you know and and for me personally it hits home where you and i now in texas at least can can shop our own electricity provider. I remember going to school up in new york and nice segue was the only shop in town pay and so you. Yeah yeah new york. New york's supply electric and gas. Or whatever the hell it is. And and i just remember that and this is when it. This has been deregulated and and i went right back up there to a regulated market. And and so the things that it's done for price discovery for allowing the consumer At the consumer level to discover prices and shop for themselves. And then you have now this almost as twilight zone where certain parts of the country of the west coast comes to mind san francisco and berkeley where you have these. You know i mean i just. I got a couple of minds about it alex. I got two little girls in their better people than i'll ever be and You know. I'm working on being a better person when i see them. And and as i'm working through that of you know my my former self wants to would call them you know unscrupulous vertu signaling pig fuckers. But i'm not gonna call him back you know of my the the the The the city council san francisco. Berkeley get no sympathy for me. And yeah and it's like it's like who are you. Let's give context yet it. Isn't you story. That just came out a couple of days ago. So we're going to tell this story in an effort to contrast it with you know the parts the good parts and we're gonna get into it in subsequent episodes of enron This isn't an enron story. This is and this is a story of market transparency opening up making markets freer for price discovery. Not for we talked about traders hit but consumers at the at at their own level. I mean being able to shop your energy provider at home on a website via baylor On a phone. Whatever and and figuring out what's best suited for you that's good market practices for for cheap readily available energy. That makes our lives contrast that with how it happens in other parts of the world where people are still sitting there would you know. Yeah i though she. it just reminded me. I got a story to tell you that. Maybe we'll do. It's episode if i can keep it two minutes but but let's go back to georgia source of angst here which is the The border supervisors in the city and county of san francisco just past you building code and environmental code that mandates at all new construction in the city of san francisco and in san francisco county. Be a hundred percent electric. No natural gas or cups are going to be allowed under under the notion of. I don't know what the what what green green green bean green from virtue perspective. It's unbelievable to me. And you know this this up on twitter A couple of days committee yesterday through it. And you know i had linked that took me to the cia and i looked at the website and where they benchmark prices for natural gas and electricity by by state versus a natural average the national average. And we're looking the price of just city gate price at in california as an average as well as the retail price. Natural gas is twenty percent lower than the national average in the united states whereas the their electric bolt their their electric prices both astronomical yet both industrial and commercial and residential dential. They're fifty percent their electrical prices. A fifty percent higher than the national average commercial about seventy five percent higher in industrial about one hundred thirty percent higher than the national average. And here. you have a city that has banned the cheapest form of of Of energy for heating for power generation for Whatever you wanna use it for cooking and forced that community to consume an energy source. That's the highest in the country overpriced cis. Oh so enter. Enter the you know. Enter my what. Do i mean sanctimonious swine for indicators. Is what comes to mind. Honestly simply because yet you know and let's not forget The carve-outs for for the the grandfathering that happens in all of ridiculous california base legislations whether it's property taxes. Eight rowing either way here. Yeah and you're gonna find that we're going to talk about that. When we talk about enron about how the rolling blackouts got late. This might actually be a an organic cause of rolling blackouts whereas you'll find in the early two thousands. He got laid at the foot of the governor. And you find out after the fact who is actually ron traders calling power plants and saying demands a little down kenya flip a switch and turn the power off so we can spike demand and seller that market. And we're gonna go into that more but at the end of the day you know. California has huge budget deficit problems. And it's you know in the nineties when he bought a piece of property or a house for one hundred and eighty dollars or two twenty and now it's valued at four and a half million. You're still paying taxes on a two hundred and twenty thousand dollar notional values and so until those people die or sell that property is essentially a loser for the state of california insofar as tax revenues. And along those lines. You know the folks who already established restaurants or whatever are going to have a leg up and be a protected class in any sort of innovation whether it be home builders who wanna come in. They're gonna be up against it simply because let's just let's not even talk about the additional permit that now is going to be foisted on homebuilders' right and and the regulatory health is built out exactly canal you have that and then your home's gotta run offer and all that but you don't even have a portfolio of energy. You just all electric right. You can't have a knack. Gas line of fire is stove. And what's ridiculous is that. They're probably powering. Their plants with natural gas most likely they probably are. It's just a matter of time before they banned that right. Gee or something like that but look. There's the visceral issue of what's y'all i can. Fundamentally senate can categorically say one of the greatest Forces for a modern conveniences that we have no matter where you are in strata of of your echo in the economic strategy. You stay burge is cheap energy. It is cheap energy and doing things like this in places like san francisco at the end of the day. Doesn't it doesn't really hurt the. Vc guys that are in in december or san mateo in their in their in their big houses. It really hurts your sort of the the blue collar. The white working class the middle class. The people who have to you know who live on on on on non-equity income That's one which is which is which is a crime. But the fact that it's government mandated and part of me cycle. You vote for these people. And i guess you get what you vote for but you know the the deeper issue to me is an. Don't be brutally honest with the with the leadership here is we have the energy industry. That really doesn't fight back on this kind of stuff junior sort of. Hey you know what. They'll they'll pay their prices and they'll have brownouts and blackouts and and productive people will leave californian. Well yeah you know. People with means will leave and they'll set up a life somewhere whether it's an austin or in in cambridge massachusetts but what about the people who don't have the the ability to leave your server subjecting them to to even more property or you're imposing a tax on them that they didn't they didn't vote on didn't you didn't approve of the diminished lifestyle. Compared the ways the energy industry on you know the energy industry just content to do its lobbying behind closed doors. fund the campaign of the local congressman around the refinery or the or the or the gas plant. There is no voice to there and coming back and saying this is fundamentally wrong. We can't run energy policy even if it's it if it's Down at at at a state level in this manner it is just. It's it's not right. it's I have no words for that. And part of it's it's my frustration with the with the industry that just sorta cannot believe that you know we're big and we we do a good job and there's no doubt we do. Being able to provide energy on demand is testament to a lot of people that work hard behind scenes but the industry is itself is being totally attacked right under climate change green policies and some of the stuff. I don't argue that. We don't need to have clean air and clean water. Everyone wants what's best for our children and our future but this kinda stuff where you forcibly you force part of the population into poverty at using energy as a weapon against them and today there was a tweet from new york times reporter that was associating the energy industry with white supremacy. Because everyone she talked to in the energy business was male white. I mean that's the level of insanity. The industry's being stuff checked it to buy. Call them wherever you want to the woke the whatever and there's not a word going back there's no i i'll say enough right there. Look at the the day of the way. I look at this industry. I'm sort of through my mid point in my career. And i desperately want to see a lot of young people A lot of bright people people futures come into this industry and make it better and make it more efficient and make it more environmentally friendly carbon neutral. We can do that to an industry that just sort of sits on its haunches and and believes that you know just because we are an essential need an essential good you know people can say all sorts of stuff about the industry and we don't really have to respond to them because guess what they're going to need us and if they don't they're going to pay higher prices no one wants to come work in an industry that's being attacked but at a certain point in time the markets like you talk about how smart markets are people are defacto through the populace writ large observers are defacto market. I mean when they're shopping for their own rates in deregulated markets for energy. Or they're seeing this this asinine bullshit. That's being put out by these virtuous signaling politicians. I mean at the end of the day. You know people are going to start saying. Put your money where your mouth is. I mean why are up. Peleton to a little generator and with your with your plant based diet So you can get rid of methane You know fire up your little peleton to a generator. Run your coffee pot and your tv and be your own. Little energy cycle Life cycle and and kinda just shut the hell up and leave us alone and see how long that goes. You know an old adage. I used to greek cafe at listened. These old men talk some of the smartest men and they'd say at c. Says than in the moss the way it is for you. It's not that way for us. And he told me that they're the bees. The worker bees were tall toil and labor for months on end only to have a beekeeper. Come and scoop comb and take the honey away and so these people like you said from either their you know they're i don't call them ivory towers because that's cliche but you said moore addresses and silicon valley or cambridge massachusetts. They'll sit here and virtue signal and to the point where idiot technocrats idiot yet. Intellectuals talev lights to call them in positions of local power will will execute these these kinds of regulations and and it's lost on them as to the level of hypocrisy that during gauged in while doing it right and and that's literally that market is going to self correct. I fully believe in that. Because if we didn't if i don't believe in that then i wouldn't believe or you wouldn't believe in the dynamics of markets kind of checking themselves renault. It will. We talked about that. So these the roosters are gonna come home to roost. And and it's gonna. It's gonna come full circle. Timing timing. big is a biggish. And i'm not going to tell you when I think it's i think it's going to be sooner rather than later simply because of that dynamic. I told you that the energy spaces is not going to be beholden to big banking money In the in the near future yes choke dead there. They're all corrective mechanisms there but sort of not not to not too virtuous signal are aside or humble brag on our side but i think things like what digital wildcatters doing and and platforms such as this that sort of educate people s to the real nuances in how business Really operates here. Most people sort of think of the oil business lease in in my extended family think of their all businesses. You know we dig oil out of ground spill. A bunch of it on the way. Y'all sets up stuff on mark kotz baby seals and then eventually deliberate or gas station but your to sort of express sort of the nuances. There's on the engineering side. We're talking about the market side of the of the of the energy industry and how incredibly efficient a globally network market for energy has yum. I think these are the types of steps that you know. Sort of helped countered that the the narrative that's being lobbied at at at the industry. Yuck i could say to myself look i. I spent my career in energy. And you know. I had my experience that i made some money in. Staten the other. But part of me is you know. There's there's a whole nother generation that has to take over the reins here and and even if we're transitioning to a broader portfolio of energy sources. you know. There's your hydrocarbons are still going to be absolutely valuable in my lifetime. As a as an goto energy source and even in the lifetime of of my kids. So it's it's not a short term fifty to a hundred years minimum absolutely anyway. Good stuff ready fox. Now right now i i want to hear more of it and you know what. Let's save it for next time when we got some really charge stuff to talk about which. We alluded to in curtain crooked. You're right. I mean we're going to dig a little deeper into regulated versus deregulated markets enron Being market maker and trader and the market influence. Her and all conflicts of interests were talk about the good that they did and the bad that by no way negated or use me the good and the bad but the good no way to result in their downfall. Right and and rightly so you can still eat the meat and leave the bones imparts concept's and talk about things for the betterment of us has learning From history and and for viewership to also earn earn their listenership. So all good stuff buddy Thanks again alex man. I enjoy this. Always try and figure out another greek movie. That doesn't have anthony quinn it. Just don't say fat greek wedding our shows. Yeah well he wasn't in it. Whatever makes off limits. thank you Until the until the next step so we look forward to it. Let's not guys think You know Sometimes any just shut up and listen to alex more and sometimes if you guys want to here Other things that. I have. Because i got opinions about damn near everything If you wanna hear it let me here Let me hear your thoughts. And i'm happy to bring him to bear so thanks again out to now blessed.

thirty dollars thirty two dollars twelve dollars six thousand years four months chicago barbarossa greece george hiller Alex sandy Alex chandy George dona italy glenn quinn peloponnesus alex africa David nevin hama robbie
The Antina Ranch and Chevron  the Operations Update on Chuck Yates Needs a Job

Oil and Gas Startups Podcast

1:52:58 hr | 2 months ago

The Antina Ranch and Chevron the Operations Update on Chuck Yates Needs a Job

"Hey everybody it's chuck. We're gonna talk about some serious stuff today on the podcast. Ashley watt and her antena ranch the struggles with chevron. I don't wanna make light of that. But i do need to warn you. Today's podcast lot of engineering porn. You're gonna hear all about squeezed jobs. The analyst backside pressure isolating zones except draft. Even say hydrates in the whole thing but that being said later on the podcast as we get through the engineering stuff. The talk of the implication the talk of the pr of the industry the regulatory bodies responsibility in the like. It's pretty good stuff that i think everybody needs to listen to i. Everybody welcome to chuck. Yates needs a job. The podcast and from the chuck gates needs a job. The podcast news desk r- actually going to do our first official. Follow up on a podcast so as you folks remember in episode thirty four ashley shared her family struggle with chevron out on their ranch out on their cattle ranch in west texas. And what we've done is We're very fortunate bill tomi. Your last name. just blanked. nowhere is birch. Wash the edge. I can't believe that of like stagefright on my own podcast. We're very fortunate today to have bill. Burr john and bill is a consultant for ashley out on haram inch. She's dealing with chevron. Turn it over to Bill and just to give you a little bit. His background as well as lay the stage for What's going on out there and the work that chevrons done and maybe the implications for that. But we're also joined by chris byrd on the line and chris before we get to bill one. Thanks for coming on. Hello welcome to the To the podcast. Why don't you give a little bit of your background for the world chris. Nobody knows who you are but my mom listens to this and she probably hasn't met yet. Yeah no thanks for having me on chuck you know. My background is basically up. Engineer worked as a kind of completions production field guy for i five or six years of my career in an office engineer in In two thousand sixteen about five years ago started up a company that i operate. As the president of called expeditionary we are predominantly an oil producing company vertical shallow. We do a lot of water. Floods things like that drill. Probably forty wells. This year Wiki probably three workover rigs busy in the field every day in so just Just that that's kinda of what idea every day you know. It's it's it's funny. Somebody one time asked me to compare and contrast myself with you. And i said well. Let's do it this way. When the great freeze was happening and urquhot in texas was blowing up. Chris was out making sure all natural. Gas wells were producing because he was making bank on. That and i think bloomberg wrote a story about you during that i was packing up my cat and the carrying case and going over to my parents house that was powered by tesla batteries. Because my mom had gone out. And i think that pretty much describes the difference between us so billy appreciate you coming on as well. Why don't you give us a little bit of your background. And then if you could kind of launch into just you know as we as. I said earlier my mom's listening to this. She may or may not have listened to the one which chevron but just chevron and ashley if you'll just give a little overview of of the ranch what's up out there and then kind of dive into what chevrons been doing we'd love to hear it. Yeah no worries. Exchequer on thanksgiving For the invites to the crawfish world at your house back in april first time we get out of kovic solitary confinement for months on. Nice to now. I have good taste crawfish but Social thanks again is like as my daughter said dad why are you having a super spreader event at your house and i like. Hey i'm back site vaccinated at this point so while you know. I gotta make a shameless plug here. Who provided the crawfish cook them check. Quick note my attorneys have asked me to point out at this point in the podcast. That i- chuck yates was merely a venue. Host that day i procured. No alcohol distributed no alcohol. The crawfish boil was a digital wildcatters production. How was was it. I will I'll let you answer that. Because i don't wanna miss speak. It's expert energy and had very very cool of you. The a new. You may or may not have been there you know we may or may not have said i want one one last thing since chris. Since we're both friends with the person. I'll go ahead and tell the story because i haven't set it on the podcast and it may explain some of my weird twitter behavior but my parents were at the crawfish boil. I don't know if you met them. They were sitting inside my house because they really wanted to hear lindsey l. play music and it worked perfect. You know she was loud enough they could hear it sitting in there and so dear friend shale yuna kitty was at the crawfish boil. I don't think i'm doc seeing anything by saying that and May or may not have had one too. Many drinks says this is all said with love but anyway shale unit kitty walks up to my dad and says hey. I'm kitty my dad looks at him. Guess i'm kenny lay. And hey kenny freaked out now really. We are giddy lazier and my dad's coach sh sh stop that. And so anyway. That's the running twitter joke between me and kenny lay. When it's like. Hey dad how are you good sun. And and all that i think shale unit kitty kind of figured out a little bit later that hey maybe Maybe my dad really isn't kenny. Lay but it was funny so anyway. I appreciate the crawfish and i'm glad both you guys may or may not have been there because i think that was a lot of fun as always say nothing happened to my house. The four hundred people. There were incredibly. Respectful is my house was spotless. When the crawfish bowl was over it was all the other idiot. Podcasters from digital wildcatters spent the night at my house that destroyed it that night so anyway. We'll do the crawfish boil again. Hey bill cut you off. why don't we. Why don't we go back to give us a little your background and tell us what's going on at the ranch so i've been upstream on gas join questions Intervention in the last twenty one years started. My career was somber. Say wireline at the middle east moved to halliburton on a working for various honest. Directional driller global w specialist drowned world with them for four years went to grad school. Lsu join wild well control Front row seats to the greatest circus in town. During the macondo incident left there went to work for chevrons shelves in two twenty thirteen based chevron nor see chevron gulf of mexico for comebacks few other independents Then twenty seven. I decided to kinda hangups broke down. The wall control company i had started decided to kinda rechange course got into farming and Kind was enjoying retirement Slow got dragged back out in eighteen to work in the permian on mechanical civic energy drawing technology and then in nineteen Took the offer to go to algeria with This mark there on their deep gas projects with repsol in project by the old french nuclear testing sites and then ended up back in court again kind of full circle and left kuwait at the end of the member with the kovic crisis inability traveling living. Two weeks of every hitching lockdown. Fourteen sucked so So it enough of that came home and really kinda kicking back. In december i gotta work my baton on hydrogen so kind of certain. Make the transition myself to alternative energy. But just like that third shitty scene in the godfather. You know it's the once you think you got a legitimate exit out oil and gas. Will you back there alone ball here. I am sitting on another blowout. Gotcha the will. What's so so kinda kinda set it a. I opened up a little bit about it. But you obviously know the details. I mean this is. This ranch has been under a lease. I believe since nineteen twenty four original gulf and so obviously chevron take take it from there and just sort of lay out what you got out there in west texas on the cattle ranch. I worry so. The durant is south by twenty as you get towards monahan monaghan sandhill and the lovely booming metropolis monica texas. It's between twelve thirty. Three three eighty five on the south side is what grand falls. It's twenty thousand acres and actually consists of two separate oilfields One is called the ship field. Which is basically a queen sands Production scenario which is mostly in the southern section of the field. And it's the easternmost aspect of queens sand of lope down there and then the northern side of the ranch. the estes field is part of the sandhills. West oilfields And it's actually gulf. Well i drilled his extinction heading westbound coming out of the main saint ills fields here. And if you're familiar with the geology of down here You kind of just a quick vertical. You've got your surface aquifers the wrestler of the slaughter which is the salts. Then you get into the cancio gates members below. That's the queen dan. i'm sorry seven rivers the queen sands And then you get the glorieta and then the saint andrew's andrus is the production field for the estes and the field is a queen san production. We also you can kind of get an idea. Depth wise people four thousand five thousand feet most most would actually in like four thousand three thousand nine hundred forty two hundred foot depths for the san. Andreas and this other field is actually shallower because of the plane is like twenty six hundred twenty nine hundred feet deep. So these are deep vertical. Postals like this is classic. Old nineteen forties nineteen fifties drillings completion technology. And it's interesting because the age of the field engulfs work from nineteen forty three with the estes won through to the basically late early. Two thousands of last wells drilled basically all the to strength design of some degree. Which except very first dolf oil wells which were three strength designs. They ran a sixteen or sixteen. Seventy eight two hundred fifty. Five feet drilled us ninety seven drilled. They're twelve whole. Set their nine and five eighths in those wells. They set him deep so like thirty eight. Thirty seven thirty. Eight hundred entered the reservoir. It's very basic tops. set the reservoirs. In the other scenarios they set eight and five eighths at one hundred fifty five two hundred feet two hundred fifty feet deep depending on the time line in the early fifties and then iran five and a half inch down tv to the reservoir. This comes into play significantly because as we move down the what happened yesterday. Twenty twenty four. The sixteen. The one to one you start to see now. The impact of the case of design starting have impact on where potential flow passing. Where things are going here so they asked us twenty four. Which hey bill let me cut you off. Just real quick. So so forties and fifties drill drilling. How many wells. Ballpark out there producing. When's the last time well drilled out there and just to make sure i'm clear. Sounds like kind of shale revolution. Pass this by so no big wolf cam. Horizontal is out there any kind of modern type development. Do i have that right. That is direct the so the basin in the montanes region urine central basement. So you're too far east of the delaware too far west of the midland basin. You're not we're a little bit. Further west of the central arch which is kind of the defining component of the the central basin of the samuels field sets. Just to the west of the central arch. The thing with the with the with these designs eras there's probably there's probably eighty wells that were drawn by nineteen sixty in estes fields. And there's probably another twenty since the sixties mostly water flood In terms of their their their patterns and they're trying to sweep oil effectively The last well drilled is actually a tub while which is a little bit deeper reservoir target by another operator. They've come in and they've drilled a few devante wells and they're like sixty two hundred feet but against to string design and unfortunately as you said this is the way the central arch kind of worked way. Things tench doubts the the wolf camp series. That your seem on the delaware basin isn't really here on this ranch. And and there are a couple just as either drilled. Down yellen burger by golf in the early seventies down eighty three hundred seats. Just stick nose down there and see what down there but nothing. Nothing came from marshall. Gotcha so what so. What started kind of the though the latest round of for lack of better word. We'll call it a kerfuffle putting well so is actually said in our previous podcast. You know the discovery discovery its surface from surface expressions on the two wells. There's the wrist sixty eight which is part of the sheffield in the south and it's actually the eastern host. Well in the shipley field on the very cusp of the edge of the of the shipley field the wrist and sixty eight was a pretty straightforward of reentry Because dolphins will never really plug in abandoned. Where's the six sixty eight. So they drilled that well fifty nine plugging abandoned sixty eight to bullshit job on the the rare commission of signed off with the good old boy network back in the late sixties and all did was basis at a What almost looks like an eye. Kids do not a cardboard fence posts retaining sleeve couples axeman piece of two and three. It's tubing coming up out of ground said princeton sixty eight When we got down to subsurface and got it excellent and cut back you can see the weld plate where they welded this surface casing sleeves that there was water. Flowing out the top of it So we got to cut back with the mac tech. Saw we got it expose Got a backdrop in their base to suck the hell out of it. There was no pressure below it. We hot tap below. There's no pressure below Suck up water and in basically that points Got a unit rig into go in ran away down to six hundred eighty suitcase in chooses at six hundred twelve feet. We didn't have a single restriction. In spite of the eight and five eighths gulf manet had originally in abandoned the well had cut the five and a half inch long string at twelve hundred ten feet and theoretically had plugged bottom They submitted the five and a half place in nineteen fifty nine that got spent lift to like twenty twenty two twenty one hundred feet eighteen hundred feet. Some of the depending on where wherever the rest of the top one of the drawbacks of this old fields as you may or may not be aware of is that the records are really really hard to find and the drilling reports. You know the. I tally sheets and things like that. Don't exist. so it's you're kind of going off of either. Dna threes and the peony reports. Or you're kind of just trying to use best guess estimations of where you think. Sir stuff is but the conundrum on the sixty eight. Was that sixty eight well. The base bit was never isolated sufficiently because hydrocarbon physically at surface within the old country seller And and really honestly. There wasn't anything in that interval queens sands the gates and the tansel formations don't flow. Hydrocarbons that the queen san was basically the next thunderball so hydrocare was coming up from a poorly plugging abandoned five and a half from nineteen sixty eight. The kick of it is that when we asked the question to the rarick mission regarding rancher the five and a half they gave us a ton of excuses all with limitation. It will collapse. There's we're not gonna make them realistic. We have take on this complicated snow. And i'm like what in the hell. If this had been the state of california just put it on the record they would have had to spend a half million dollars in attempts to try reentered the five and a half and if chevron says they're going to operate high quality standards industry in the state of california records. I would've had have done it. Stay in texas. Didn't have to do it. We ran that goal tubing on that too in two and three as coil and we all the way down. We didn't get a single restriction six eighty and the rogue mission said boys. That's as far as you go. You can stop. And i'm like no like keep on in end at the top of the tubing twelve. Like if you hit a restriction of course before that sign we can make the susan whether we have to really try to drill ahead and open hole and try to find original five half or but they really made no illegitimate effort to attempt to try to re enter or firm plugging the five and a half so business. Were you start to ask questions around the wrist and sealed and say okay. What's going on here. My records indicate this was plugged. I'm seeing scenario out here. Dwells not plugged hydrocarbon surface coming from the reservoir so eventually after a bit of challenges giving issues we got us meant i plug but i plug completely sell out. Went back the plug. There is no book. A the irony of the joke on location at the time was well. Maybe we gotta plug in five and a half. Finally i'm like you know i get it. But it's not really copacetic. Like the caesar wells. We have put away for a thousand ten thousand your life. So and you're you're disliking it off and she didn't take any efforts realistically trying to get in and get the five and a half. So we got the cert- we did a second plug. We tacked up plug in. And here's where. I'm going to get in a little bit of the the aquifer problem right so ashley's interest in a lot of people think. Oh she's just agree. Landowners bitching about mineral rights doesn't get a check out any that's right. She doesn't own the surface rights. Service doesn't rainy monroe. She doesn't get a world to check early. Interest legitimately is brown water for maintaining the ranches aspects of both cattle and for consumption. Right so when we asked the question around the wrestler around isolation of the rustlers Ran across log. The eight and five eighths taste and smell. Job is crab against one thousand nine hundred nine. Like i'm not surprised to see that. There's voice the gaps in the backside of eight five. We're going to have to squeeze remediate at some point here before they superbug Five aches with the issue. That came up was the fact like we starting in discussion of what is considered freshwater west texas and this is a really interesting point that there's a lot of people who say that the the rustler formation because of its natural sleng brackish. Water is not a future is not a recoverable freshwater resource state of texas and in ward county which this well is technically. Just on the cusp down train. County rate crank county doesn't have any restriction for the rossler so there's no mandatory requirements that having to protect the wrestler but generally speaking the wrestler. Like live paso. Your water comes from the wrestler through. Reverse osmosis of the wrestler the future of the freshwater aquifer out here is the russula so when you start getting into the situation where people are going to say what we're here to protect freshwater from the texas water border the railroad commission or from even chevron and then turn around said. Well we don't give a damn about protecting the wrestler. Now you got a bit of a okay. There's something going on here. Like i'm i'm still struggling to understand how we there's two sides of his argument occurring either. The wrestler is worth protecting. It's not worth protecting. So that's been a whole kind of connecticut. Long story short on the rest sixty eight africa meant flog is currently now but a month the bubble testing it's got a bit of a vacuum on it. That's the last bubble chest we did exploring water in it and simply in the next couple of weeks chevron back out there baby coil unit funnels we and we're gonna superbug it to surface and but a final stick post and the rest sixty eight so there. It's the tale of two wells on the ranch. But one thing on rick clear about is at the southern field has not seen the underground blow fresh regime that we've seen in the in the north so it kinda keep this as tubes. Different sets of problems ironically came up at the same time but different different set of problems. Gotcha so to the well. you're talking about. That's the infamous red bucket. Well right that we we saw the pictures. Yeah the s.'s. twenty-four famous red bucket. Well the wrist sixteen was also flowing. Water at the time with urban is but again it. It's that one. I think in some of the twitter twitter conversations in some of the things that were but out there. I think people got confused to understand that still to follow fields. Two different sets of circumstances two different sets of of formations different apps etc. And i'm gonna get way out of my league. Grow quick so chris at any point you want to. You want to shut me up Feel free to do it. But just i guess when we look at this and following on twitter as well as i talked to ashleigh for a couple hours around the the podcast and all you know we definitely have an old pianist. Well that was blown. You know blow and water and other stuff at the surface. I think the bigger implications that you hinted at is what's going on underneath the surface and do we have something quote unquote really bad happening and potentially groundwater is going to be contaminated and you know. Unfortunately ashley won't be able to to run cattle out there or do you have kind of conclusions and then conclusions out there. And maybe chris censure the engineer in the smart one. And i'm the idiot. An unemployed podcast has shut up and and And let you guys talk about that. Because i think at the end of the day of chevron just had to come in and fixing old peon eight well and it dumps water on the ground. That's not the end of the world. But if there's something bigger there. That's that's where i think the shit's it in the fan. Yeah so i again. I just wanted to clarify the two. Different fields have two different sets problems. The wrist in fields is around filings and unverifiable in one thousand nine hundred sixty eight nineteen seventy where sanders who abandoned or different. But we have. We have both aging failed cement if it was really done or was fraudulent in terms of what was actually reported and again on the boston. Debbie the rare commission signatures and did not witness so there. Are things like this go. Okay so is this. These are the things that nobody wants to talk about in the abandonment world before we have a lot of these old wells were really just bullshit. You go back and look at their their validity their accuracy. And now you've got to realize like we went into this assessors casing plug in the shoe at eight hundred fifty five eight casing it you know. Five hundred and seventy two something been top of plug and no. It was nothing. We got down to six eighty and didn't take things so again if they really did pump job okay. We were unable to validate verify. It you know fifty years later. That doesn't leave you a warm fuzzy feeling about the future of plugging amendments stuff that was done in the sixties and seventies which opens the question of. Are we realistically in the next day gonna be reentering. Hundreds of thousands of plug and abandoned wells debt. We don't trust the validity of their answers. That's that's a big question. And something that i know people ministry maybe didn't get through. The twitter feeds maybe as clinton laid. This really begins to ask the question of. Do you trust the state of texas records for what we know that has been done in the past and we know that some of the hundred crap next question comes in sedan the ashfield which again got a lot more than media attention got all the photos all the drone flyovers and all that crap so the thing with the us field is that again. This was this was drilling forty-three this well. In particular with fifty five plug about ninety five sixty eight that turned water injector from production to injection ninety five when they wanted to play an abandoned as well did a much better job. The third party service contractor. They brought out basically isolated. The bottom above the polish border receptacle. That are got a cast iron bridge plug puts on top of it. Went up came up the whole sharples at eighteen. Hundred charter circulates men couldn't get injunction plugged backs Plugged said another amperage plug set aside retainer and then came up surface and basis you plug out on seventy s. Now here's the issue on the nineteen ninety five work. This is even true. Even to this year the railroad commission does not make you verify invalidates and learn isolation when you punch holes through tubing or casing in this case so such adults as well. The wrist and sixty eight was an eight and five eighths by five and a half inch design best. Twenty four and ninety five eighths by seven inch designed so. Hopefully that will help clarify people's thinking here as well So we got the call tubing on after after they got cut came out cutback wedding cake back to the seven inch got exposed to the ninety five base finally got a section in five eight but a slept lock well head on than than put Cason sledge got seven inch locked ran. Arise rep surface back build it. We got factor to surface for quilt unit. When we got this isolated the the first thing to know about the ninety five eight scenario was that there was one hundred fifteen psi underneath the leaky welds at the top of the cut point That was blowing so nellie is going to surface squirting water though still one hundred fifteen psi pressure underneath there. When we cut it off with the mac blade looked like a toilet. Overflowing eater you're not talking to get asses. Just pure produce water. Overflowing the top so once we got the wellhead on we've got shut in. We've got the rise back. Got valid surface. You know we now had we now verify the a there was men inside the seven inch and be there was the flow. Sner was only on the nine five eighths by seven angeles so when we got the col- tubing unit out there and we go to the drill out the thing. Was the plugs inside. The seven inch were almost bought on depth wise. There really wasn't a lot of variation in the the proposed apps were calculated depths versus actual deaths. So that was good so the seven inch was was isolated. Nobody hasn't been a question about the inside of essentially all of the flow in the twenty four was coming up. The nine five eighths by seven hundred tenuous so that leads to this next question of how was the wealth lawrence so initially i got to admit when i first all this stuff on lengthen. That's bed stuffing box. Karen was Whingeing about about leaking stuff in boxes. And such i have to say not only was i surprised by misogyny in the industry showing her to shut up and sit down and it just needs tightened and kind of the comments that were put out there. I was too shocked by that. But i was kind of in saint camp like. Is this really that bad. Like yeah okay you got you got a nine five leasing surface leg. I've seen far worse. But okay so i get out there. I'm i thinking like okay. You got one zone under the ground. That's got pressure on it. And somehow you've got water flow like even the first couple of days of being out on location. I was a bit kind of insane gamble. By the people of this really bad. As as the attention that is getting to be well lo and behold surprise into the job. Start plugging back and we couldn't find. The depth aware was coming from eventually. Did find it when we shop olszyna seven inch casing at fourteen seventy five. We've found that zone between thirteen. Twenty six hundred fourteen. Ninety five on the angeles is truly suit. Supercharged pressure so we have a nineteen point. Two tom brown equivalent for pressure at fourteen hundred feet And when we closed on the seven inchcape he's saying we hit seven hundred psi. We let it down afternoon infectivity test. We got fifty barrels back twenty minutes which is about three and a half barrel and then at flow rates So now lewiston you gotta zone that a in one thousand nine hundred fifty five never saw any pressure with eight. Six mud weight Salt saturated brian drilling fluids postal west texas. No issue well plugged abandoned. Ninety five. didn't afford any well-controlled challenges on any of the w three analysis in twenty one to sing as roaring produce water. Something's wrong right and at the time. I'm thinking to myself naively foolishly. I dunno ignorantly. That chevron and i are on the same path of discovery at the same level of knowledge and then i come to realize that over the next couple of weeks. That day already knew that. This disillusion model of salt water washing out of this lotto was already a realistic subsurface model already. Knew they didn't need to acquire more data because they already had the data. They needed to know that. This is how well as fallings pressured up in that interval and i was kinda stupefied by orange domestic more time to get more data and try to understand this problem more on. This wasn't a neat to kind of shocked me a bit of like they sold this dog who the field pits energy. Because of the fact that they knew this field was a disaster. Then you just highlight. It cost they knew the fact. This was an underground blowout. What's ironic of chocolate said. Literally this week. I got a copy of the morning reports from the twenty which is a mile as bro flies to the twenty four and the astros twenty blew out december fourteenth of twenty ten or twenty twenty so literally six months ago yesterday. Twenty blew out cut gottwald actually kuttab and deal with the two inch valve that was flowing. They pumped four junk shots. Got a fourteen seven waiting and it didn't get the well killed ended up having to pump seventeen pound per gallon then there's a whole series of issues and abandonment of why they couldn't get past sixteen sixty one like this wasn't chevrons. I go round here with produced water and corrosion unveiling assets but see when i first got stu location. I'm thinking to myself. Oh well we're we're up together cool like we're we're we're trying to unravel the story in not so much interesting interesting. So chris twist is. Go ahead no so. I was just going to say that. The conundrum of this is that a working on the ambulance to try to determine flow scenarios at shallow depths as really damn difficult so we ran slump say Isolation scanner logs. We got an indication of gas pockets on backside potential exit path. Seven hundred thirty seen Below the case shoe and then we saw some anomalies in the case in strain in the end of the nine five eighths by seven inch. So once we've got the seventies cut holds and secured. We then we're able to actually law the nine five aids and then we discovered this two holes in the nine. Eight's one in one hundred sixty six feet going into the santa rosa aquifer then another one at five hundred sixty two five hundred eighty eight. There was flowing into the rossler plus zone. Seven hundred thirty feet. There was eating our lunch and then Maybe maybe we got the thirteen twenty six to fourteen ninety five zone isolated with meant plugs again. We never validate and confirmed defector truly isolated but our hope is that we were able to get significant volumes. Men in about your will bill. This is fascinating in. You've done something. I've never been able to accomplish. You've kept chris quiet for about twenty minutes now so yeah chris. Your turn thoughts critiques criticisms questions. What are you thinking Yeah no i mean. I think i actually finally after a the the multitude of posts that i've read actually probably a decent idea of what the scenario is which is good. I think maybe. I understand dixon notes. Here and you know. I think that the There's lot bike hyperbolic commentary. That happens around these types of situations and you know from what i've seen my variances like have to keep things very compartmentalized in you have to like focus on. What is the problem. What is the issue like. What are we trying to protect your like in. So when i hear this scenario i say okay. Look like there's a reason why you put surface casing into a well right like service casing intended to protect the water the drink the groundwater right in what is the groundwater will the groundwater is whatever the state of texas waterboard tells you groundwater is right in. So that's not for the producer to determine that is for the producer to accept as defined rate. So like i think in the question of the wrestler. it's like while that's not a question of operator issue. That's a question of texas waterboard issue. So let's say like within that context right. Like there was a famous case michigan with alvian scipio scipio field right where the what had previously been determined as the depth of usable water was decided that it was actually deeper in. The state of michigan came in and said no. It's actually like two hundred feet deeper than what we told you when you draw these wells. Shut everything and plug the field out novon right and so i think that happened in like the eighties and so like i just say like. You've gotta like me now. We're going to start pointing fingers and making blame. You're like okay like within this like was chevron doing things as defined right like you drill a well waterboard tells you. What's the base of usable water. You're on surface casing the base. You've done your job eight and so that's one question to me. Seems like maybe. That's not like something at issue. I would take issue with. I think if you're gonna try to say like okay in the sixties seven deeds You know we have environmental issues. Things weren't done properly and you know to me. That's not an oil and gas specific thing that's like you know. Probably the entire world thing like chris chris. Unit talked about this. 'cause i remember when i was driving my daughter to summer school. I call jim. We talked for a while and bill. I don't know if i've told you this. But i do think kind of quote unquote unfairness. There's nothing that happened. Twenty years ago in any one of the three of us lives that we probably wouldn't do different today just with more knowledge technology etc. So i by that point. I mean you know. Like when did the epa even get farmed like what the sixty knees. I mean you know. There's certainly the love canal abuse. You're old enough. I was after day after the santa barbara channel. Out at sixty nine unocal right news was under nixon. I mean it was yeah. It was a conservative republican president. Richard nixon Who did many things but yeah he. He was responsible for the pa. So i will say this crystal about the texas water. Port like so had some conversations with texas waterboard regarding their determinations under principles by how they determine it and one of the thing that really gets me as they say. Well frank cownie because we don't really monitor the wrestler but the well we're counting we do s.'s. Twenty-four is literally a hundred yards to the ward county line. Which is kind of ironic that they're saying well we got. We know our our our subsurface model online for county shows the rustler ending it like three hundred feet and the county line shows it and get like fifteen hundred seats and i reminded them that in nineteen fifty five. They ran electric logs in the open hole. They have a gamma rate and a neutron log in the open since nineteen fifty five in the last. I checked the geology. Hasn't changed since nineteen fifty five. So either you have jealous who are too damn lazy to read the logs or you decided that your model didn't need input of more data points right so when i called him out on it then they came back to the. Oh yeah oh yeah you're right we do have Goslar from five. Yeah you know our water. Determination of three hundred seventy five chevron was claiming was waterboard termination. Now now it's six hundred feet so again you know i don't mean to totally call out the rotation. I know they got a lot of stuff. And a lot of districts on equal right. But when i go back and look at this stuff and look the inconsistencies. The w three and nineteen ninety-five shows. The waterboard was five. Eighty chevron somehow gets waterboard letter says three seventy five call it on the road commission and they did what they almost always do which is deepen it said they. They deepened into six hundred feet. So i'm a bit oswald in the data sequence of things how so many different parties working on the different data model and then i would say in the field as well with original gulf oil wells chevron new gulf oil designs sixteen seventy eight or sixteen inch by nine and five eighths that there was no in hell that they lifted men on the original nine. Five eight men job to cover the sixteen in at one hundred fifty five feet. There's no there's no way. So these were never top circulated wells and never got some returns back on the nine to five it therefore during the plug and abandoned if you truly believed in the water board and you truly believe in recovery aches you would have had to go in and cut full the seven inch long string the production during go back into your intermediate chew holes in the nine and five eighths squeeze up sixteen inch did chevron do that during the plug. Abandonment were or discussion of entry for the waterboard helmet. So i gotta say this that if you have an operator who suddenly said hey. I'm all about to protect the groundwater and this is what we do. We're going to have them right by integrity especially on. Es g mode. But then i go back and look at your history of well. Where was your plans to reenter any sixteen inch designs. Allow those are repugnant. Let shed i. Don't care if it's plugging abandoned fifties of its plugging. Abandoned rog. failed to provide isolation on waterboard. Then where's the state of texas enforcing re entry of these wells to to provide adequate isolation edification of long term isolation of the water table. So both the railroad commission and the operators are complicit in saying one thing on one side of the mouth. Oh yeah we're here to set surface casing and protect the groundwater all cost and then turnarounds but they'll wells won't okay. We don't have to do that. yeah now. I don't think like i guess from my experience that i've seen like i've never personally ever. My dealings witnessed any amount of complacency when it comes to groundwater contamination. I mean if there's anything that like every regulatory body i've ever found it's extremely wary of it's always groundwater tim nation in great point. Let's talk about the for just a second. So in december when they have applauded yes twenty. Days cuts cuts here on the location going with yesterday's twenty in the water flowing. Thousand one a barrel minute. Fourteen hundred barrels. A day five thousand barrels of water hawk hauled off from the surface spill. Not counting what actually went into the soil itself into the water table. Fifty three feet. Where would chevron plan for going monitoring wells and surface remediation of all the debt mistakes ziemba one and yet they tell me on the twenty four bed after we get done. After the monitoring period super plug out the coming into drill monitoring wells and do all the so remediation a- long-term operator cleanup program entry Foods data taxes to maintain the estes twenty four location from spill. But yet they didn't reports ashley anything all about yesterday's twenty blocks december so what changed in five months internally within chevron suddenly the estes twenty four gets higher quality cleanup and better plans and actions after the event where the status twenty which for all intents latest want to shove it on the table and not talk about it. I mean i get that. I i guess you know the end of the day though. Right we're saying like are you say we've got a nineteen point two per gallon gradient fourteen hundred feet right so there's only one scenario creates that which is humans injecting water rate like you don't have naturally occurring nineteen point two albert bell ingredients without Rate so we have. Genetic pressure added that formation. You've got you've got Pressure being added of course water flood zone right. And somehow you're channeling fourteen hundred feet new basically pressured So like within the realm of like responsible. Actions like okay. So now you know within some tax of nearby well injections than you've got somewhere where it's communicating right. And so so one me like. I looked at the production on that offset field. It's basically nothing like it's almost dead like why is the simplest answer. Not just to like go. Just shut that down. I mean if you're saying like within the context of thirty barrels a day like if you have a A true concerned. You have evidence that you know. There's possible communication within zones. I wouldn't think that it would be a you know the craziest thing to go to pets or to You know get the railroad commission. Basically put an order on seen it happen. In texas where added disposal well is creating casing leagues in producing zones are sorry in production casing offset wells and they shut it in So like within. That possibility doesn't seem like that would be the hardest thing to accomplish through the railroad commission or directly with pets rate. You would think so. But that's not the case. They played so far. So is really interesting is that i. I don't think chevron told i don't we're still not convinced that we've not seen any documentation that suggests that the railroad mission was aware of yesterday. Twenty blow out in early december. Route mission was only on location for the plug and abandonment jan january ninth virginia through february first and they had held trying to plug and abandon that by the way as well because of the pressures games. So i'm not sure how much the rare permission honestly knew of the well-controlled challenges of the estes field before it spotted april first. The second thing. That was very interesting was affected during his advance. The first time that anybody called it out underground plot was when i was on channel. Seven news midland. Cbs and said it was an underground blow off the next day where spectre at location said. Hey i'm being told his office that we haven't underground blowout coming to us about underground blowout from like will we're we're do you think that. Nineteen point two pound per gallon poor pressure so much showed up from like. I'm struggling to understand how you're not seeing relevance of this was a man made incident that is tied to some mechanism of other wells. Like this isn't coming from this well as well isn't the cause of the underground blow out of thirteen twenty six fourteen ninety five now. This well isn't underground blowout itself because it's crossed from the ninety six to fourteen ninety five to seven hundred thirty three to five hundred sixty to one hundred sixty six feet and leaking at surface so we had enough horsepower in deliverability that we were able to actually get cross low within this well so this is an underground blowout well with the surface blowout at the initial start of bed bet is in underground blowout field so like i said a lot of people this is. This is a well of the results in of what's happening in happening in the field and is still happening. And from a well-controlled perspective. The first the first goal welcomes role is to is to find the source of the pressure. And then if it's not killing people in this situation it's not syllable the nineteen three hundred fourteen hundred feet one. I won't have frag gradient to be able to support that. So the nice thing i i do is i have to stop the water. The energy input so a temporary restraining order should have been interested by the rare permission without a lot of reese ability or a lot of arguments that everything get shut everything gets stop. Everything gets shut in and we are looking at the bigger picture problem. Where is the energy source. common from. And the second thing is. If i can't kill it i've got to believe it. I've got to put this well on production basically and this has happened in east texas where we were in a well. That was at a twenty one opera gallons equivalent a thousand feet and the only way to get a motorway to kill it at the austin chalk at thirty eight hundred feet was drain off. Four hundred fifty thousand barrels of it and over the course of eight months and bring the poor pressure back down the bill to threat them a mud waits for the frat grading poor pressure regime so again. These conversation with the railroad commission are like well. We weren't told me. I s we. We don't know anything about it. So i'm i'm truly puzzled are they. Are they truly not aware of the magnitude of the events happening at the estes field or they just doing ostrich. Roller started sergeant schultz. I know nothing might be a reference lost on you but hogan's heroes. Yeah i mean. I get all that i think like you know my my i like instinct is if i say i've got one hundred fifteen psi on his asked swell and it's an anyalysts than you know. It's pretty hard for me to think if i've actually got communication with freshwater water because i'm sure it's an unconsolidated sand and it's got high permeability that you'd be able to hold that pressure rate. Like i think that like also to your point where you say like all right like i've got these surface expressions include hydrocarbons well to me the fact that you're getting communication that's coming straight out of the well right like within the preferential path of least resistance the logical. If if there's a place for it to go outside of the surface casing laterally than it's gonna go there before it's gonna go directly up to the surface in so i would think that the fact that you have surface expressions actually would be encouraging to the fact that you probably don't have groundwater nation at that point and so i think like within the context of saying like. Is there a problem. Here like There's a problem but like at the end of the day to like. What are you worried about your worried about what. Let's just keep it simple. The surface water as defined by the water board is in. You're worried about isolation below that rate. Like if i've got cross flow between zone. That's you know three thousand feet and fifteen hundred feet both on usable water. And i've got it. Isolated with the cast iron plug in twenty foot of seaman blow above it than is my concerned. You know the that's a problem. I guess it's not right like so you know in that sense to leg were are we saying like definitively at this point that like i've actual real flow Crowded casing bad cement jobs. All of that is you know not ideal. But like i would say that. That doesn't necessarily show that you've got an issue right. And i think that within that context the burden becomes proving that we're going to say we're going to point a finger. We're gonna you know say. There is groundwater contamination. Here right like I i guess. I haven't seen anything within our would be way more concerned. If i said i had flow to surface and i didn't have any pressure at all rain so i guess let's let's bring everybody up to speed then so after after we got seven inch old got ninety five eight logs corrosion on the nine to five eighths determining that not only was five sections of major corrosion but also to host facing we had a cement plug in the well tie where how do you determine that there's holes casing yes. We ran the isolation scanner and the isolation scanner showed. That showed the corrosion in the wala's at under sixty six eight also at five hundred hundred sixty. I just i guess i would question the validity that law i need those are all relative numbers. And you know you're setting a base like okay this is what wall thickness should be within this response from this log in. So if you can't we so we did a mechanical pressure test and available pressure test. So do you now believe that if you have both log data oppressor test mechanical pressure. Does that you believe you have. You have isolation. I mean what. What kind of pressure like okay. So you ran and ran a pack around backer and so on you know again. One of the weird things about this job was fact a lot of stuff to put on twitter literally as like a live. Feed output Would have been strange to see but you go back to twitter and you can see the post ballista the pressure setting depths in the end the fail criteria. We pressed you up each time to five hundred blood off either two zero or blood off more than ten percent. Fifteen minutes first time. We've got a positive pressure test. One hundred fifty eight. The first answer was that we blamed the drama of the robber that it was too hard so we pulled it back out of the hall. We ran the software drama. There we went back in tested again. They're still failed all the way up to one fifty eight. So you said you pressured out to what pressure five hundred bounce five hundred pounds so you pressure service casing five hundred psi and then it bled down to what over what time line blood two zero or blood down significantly more than ten percent and fifteen minutes chevrons protesting requirements is is a pressure that holds better than ten percent lesson than fifteen minutes. We've failed so into the only time we got a positive test. Only got to one fifty eight. We had both packers said at one. Fifty eight plus modest rollers. Tally and we got a successful test on. The annual is down to the ninety five eighths by two hundred seventy eight to the packers said at ball. You're testing net aniela setting packer. Yes and we had slow coming up to two and seventy tubing's from cement plug said it by an seventy two feet so either my spent blog it fails which again. I can't determine because got packer. That i can't get a positive pressure test on up to seven eight. So that coming out of the rossler is coming out of a failed from unplug. A baltimore is coming out of the shallow. Santa rosa unlikely right. There's the thing about the field. All of the aqua. I require artificial. Have to have us. Merciful pumped oil bring water surface. So even if you made the argument that the santa rosa was exposed to one sixty six bell casing humbling back this. There's not a single well in the area. Santa rosa the camp they can learn on its own casing up got an i've got flow positive flow at surface right. I've got shut pressure. That varies between twenty eight. Csi one day. Three hundred ninety. Psi the next day and i can't explain why the pressures recycling there's something else going on his own and i don't chris. I don't lose anybody. World scott rosetta stone to truly understand where flow is entering and exiting. And how moving around in this well in that it's a one world data set but what kills me about his error mission. They're fucking had been the sand and says oh. I don't know about this underground blow. What are you talking about. There's well-controlled problem out here. I'm like how inhale you not see the fact that there's well-controlled problems. There's not his own out here that artists she can lift lift off with artificial list pound. Heller you're not saying this. Yeah well i mean. I think that i guess so within you know what. We've the data give neo. I still would say like all right. You're right like if if there's anything that's not connected to some sort of like you know a mountainous area where you have Know added pressure from a call. Offsetting in like a flatland. Like this though. Never expect you know a freshwater zone to flow surface rate like that. So that's a fair. Expected i guess but like Then i would say like okay so would not context so hundred fifteen psi on the less. You have no flow right to the shot. The fourteen hundred foot down. So within that context i would just have to say like the data to me supports fact that you probably don't have groundwater contamination. I mean if you didn't have volume in bill pressure than most likely i would say on the s and you didn't actually have him nation now so i'll push back on the argument of the youtube andrology. Nothing right so. I looked at the notion that i have two sides of the youtube and i've got seven hundred pounds and a ten pound per gallon on the fluid on the seven inch right. That means that if the had not had a fresh on my angeles i should have had seven hundred pounds. Shut in on ninety. Five eight side of the youtube with the same column of fluids because the bottle and because the bottle is broken on the aunt. Because i've got pressure released bowels whether through the casing what other through rustler weather through to the washed out zone seven hundred thirty feet. I've got multiple exit passed on the anyalysts that are occurring simultaneously. They're taking away that seven hundred pound differential. I won't necessarily see that on a static column on the seventy s tube inside so my my casing pressure drove pipe. Pressure is not going to be balanced because of the fact that i've got water leaking off on the annual site. Does that make sense now. I mean you shouldn't your static whole systems of water. I mean so you shouldn't. You should be balanced. I mean it's it's it would be if you know introduced some sort of salt water brine water into the equation by pumping it yourself. It would be indeterminable. i disagree. I don't see it if you had you had two columns of fluid in a youtube and one side slowing that. I'm going to see the exact same response on the other side of the youtube. The drill pipe pressure the seven inch case inside aka. My drove by showing me a seven hundred pound pressure. Reading that is that is showing static condition at zone where food is coming out at fourteen. Seventy five my nine to five eighths by seven. Ingenuous is showing me the fact that i've got well. That's in dynamic condition. I've got a static. Gauge got a dynamic aged. The dynamic gauges telling me about one hundred and fifteen psi. Surface hundred fifty psi surfers. Whatever the days pressure was in my seven inside a static pressure gauge. Yeah i mean it just it tells you you got relation between the two right. I don't agree. I think that's that's a while we can agree to disagree on. I i think the well-controlled side differential between your sadeq gauge on the seven inch face inside versus the analysts is is pretty clear. But you're saying that's because the dynamic pressure because of the frat gradient or the leak off rusher wherever you injecting into the anyalysts seven hundred thirty five hundred sixty eight hundred sixty six feet service. This is a high perm sandberg. Not a gradient wouldn't be applicable on a sand at that depth. Ray like without permeability You can use the frat gradient there You would just look at it as basically an infinite pressure sink. If there's any communication at all i mean if you've got an eighth of an inch hole than you know you would never know it. Would it would lead off immediately. I'm pretty confident dahbi. True so you know. Admit in the context of what you're saying earlier. I mean you said if you wanted to lift cement surface. You'd never be able to do it from in this consolidated unconsolidated sand body. I senior implication was that didn't have the formation integrity to support the call under static. Call which i wouldn't necessarily agree with either but you know a within that context like I think i don't know the exact specific geology of this area. But if it's got fresh water in it's shallow sandstone in the most likely scenario is that you would not be able to support any pressure at all. You could probably pump twenty barrels. A minute not actually break it down in fracking would be my guess just because you don't have a either the parts you don't i mean new palm conventional frac jobs on high perm zones. There's a reason why this Because it doesn't. It won't break if you do that right because it just takes it it. It's permeable saying it takes the lar. Yeah no i look at it. It may not be seated frog grading than percents of the depreciating. Whatever is the relief whether it's objective or whether it's frac rating at the point of it is is that there is a. there is a pressure release valve. That is occurring on that daniels. Multiple zones is allowing for us not see a balanced youtube service in theory salata. Which is the salt and sequence low rosler and above the tannehill theoretically has zero perm right. It's a salt. Anhydrite sequence ship was laid down a series of rap right boats and permian that there is nothing to flow in and out of the salatto. So inserm then you can have can came in it right well. That's that's got me puzzled about the dissolution model that chevron subsurface surfaces leaning with it's also what causes the wing sync it up in Winkler county it. The issue is that if you have enough water to go buy low enough plenty to dissolve out daylight and be able to reach full full salt situation. You had move hell of a lot of water. I mean you're not talking like talking ten thousand barrels of water to solution mine out between wells. You're talking millions of barrels water. So i'm a bit puzzled. Then if if the dissolution model require such large only of water salinity difference still to mine out laterally relates. Communicate well works. How long has this been going on that. This isn't a two thousand. Three forwards phenomena wink wink saints was collapsed in one thousand nine hundred eighty it was drilled nineteen twenty three or twenty four wincing number two collapsed in eighty five hundred feet wide now Still flowing water but it took a lot of years for boeing sink modeled. Success eventually caused the subsurface mining claps. So i'm a bit puzzle as to how the dissolution model has been in play. If that's the case i'm still leaning with the top. It's still tansel. The tansel has some natural perm bugner. Prostitutes cow deposits plug it up. But it's gotta is at least got legitimacy of having fluid transfer in again three and a half barrels. minute was not a trivial rainwater. Water coming back at us when we shut it in on that on that. First time shot holes in it We were all kind of shocked to see the three and a half barrel minute flow rate. Come back at us so I'm a bit puzzled. Still how they've come up to dissolution model is there most likely scenario for the costlo but point being it didn't exist in nineteen ninety by church exist in nineteen fifty five otherwise golf would either ask him to the money were growing And they didn't so. I'm a bit puzzled as to what has caused it. Then in the bigger sprint scale. Things is that while that is the interesting technical inquiry the the bigger challenges why chevron and the recognition not working towards finding to causation energy source and removal of isolation for even other operators. Right i mean you know. Okay pittsburgh a doc right. It didn't do their due diligence. Maybe they should have done a better job on the due. Diligence on what they were buying but the bottom line is it didn't bite out of that base say that sharon handed down underground blow out that they were aware of. This obviously was here before. Pittsburgh feels like this suddenly happened in the last ninety days since pits acquired field and the other operators of drilled wells out here in early two. Thousands didn't report any issues either. So i'm kind of puzzled as to where how. When did this come about. Then how is the railroad commission playing ignorant on what. We're not aware of any control problem. We had a blow out on the twenty since january in december january. And you've got another one on the twenty four six months later like does it gonna take a third or fourth law and on the ranch to finally get out factors. there's field. why problem. Yeah i guess like but within what they're charged duty is in this case. It's you know they're. They're trying to protect groundwater. If you've got crafts cross flow water crawling. Do different water zone mean. I'm going to say it's not ideal but like we're not talking about some like massive problem. In that instance. Like if i told you that there's zones in south texas that cross flow at fifteen thousand feet nineteen thousand feet in you. Set one plug above them both in there sitting there cross linked to this day until the pressure equalizers in than it doesn't do anything right like it's just it's equalised it's done in it's there forever. I mean what is. The concern is like from the perspective of humans and our ability to safely inhabit. That area like Probably pretty minimal. Right chris bill. Let me inject because my kind of question dummying. I used to always tell my engineering partners. At cain anderson dummy it down for the finance guy chris. I'm taking your point. Is we got cross flow going down. But at least the groundwater seems to be protected by surface pipe. That's kind of your take. So what's the problem. So chris what i'd like to hear from you on that front and then i got a follow up for bill is what's your confidence interval that From all you've heard today in a no you don't have perfect information. But what's your confidence and are vocal that the groundwater won't get contaminated is this. You know one hundred percent for sure. Ashley's fine go you know. You'll eat steak from the cattle that strengthen this water or do we do. We have some sort of chances here that groundwater gets contaminated. What is your gut kind of. Tell you i mean it seems like there's probably There's a risk of there being an issue You know from the discovery that i've seen in the data i've got i can't necessarily say like. Oh yeah like that's a real real problem I remember when memphis was selling package and they had a you know a a water contamination. And i read while reports because we were looking at buying it in the like i remember thinking like oh shit as i was flipping through the well reports in looking at the data as like. Yeah like you got a real problem like that was a clear cut. Case of leg yes. They contaminated groundwater they went out. They drilled jobs while they found salt in the service zone. You know they have all these monitor wells they had to pull water out etc rate like know the progression of that in the data to me was like that was a clear cut case nece. I mean it's gray. I wouldn't necessarily say like you don't have it. I would personally landowner falls looking through this. I would say. Of course there's issues of concern if if you don't think the wells replugged properly But i think it's probably not without having something that necessarily says like yes You know something clear. Cut that you've got contamination. I would be worried about like okay. Like what are we figure out with the four other wells that are on my land with the status. Let's go in you know. Check the blogs on those wells in you know if you're only talking about like a four or five hundred foot zone. I mean you could probably drill test that freshwater for thirty thousand dollars. Maybe i mean maybe so you know would be a huge ask. Would it be so cost. Prohibitive that Nobody would be willing to come in and drill one or two test wells to actually track. I don't i don't think south. I mean and you know i don't disagree with the idea that like chevron has done everything the way i would do it necessarily But i also would find it really tough to believe that they would be knowingly intentionally a you know risking groundwater contamination in liability that that would create a seems kind of farfetched to be it would be completely counter to everything in every experience and of odd hat as you know being a non in their wells or having friends that work there in the conversations in there. You know If anything it's like they operate in an inefficient way. Because they do their belts and suspenders on everything they do. So you know it's hard for me like just say like okay. There would be a real risk. They have contaminated groundwater. It's ongoing. I think that's the biggest thing to like. It's ongoing therefore it's getting worse every day and they're just gonna try to like walk. The hands of walk walk away. I mean because you know taking something that's manageable and controllable right now and then making a real issue out of it In burying their head in the sand. Just a i i would. I can't. I can't across that without like hard. Actual real data like this just a bridge too far from me for chevron Like they do that. So let's let's. Let's get into details at so twenty blows out december tenth notice by a the ranch foreman four. Am on his way to work. Cattle calls and notifies the ernst response number that well is falling right. We believe mardi is one who found bs. Twenty flowing across the road chevron does not notify ashley chevron does not notify the railroad commission according to their own reports there is no mention of the railroad commission in any of the discussion upon us. What was happening and ics was stood up. They did amount and have merged response. They did clean it up. There was no. Ron watt remediation. Let let's assume the well just load for the five days reporting mardi truly caught it on the tenth of december. Listen by the fifteenth headed captain and secure it right in that five days and fourteen hundred barrels. That means the well would have flowed out eight thousand barrels. Give or take a bit bigger. The back truck report says something like five thousand barrels of water collected off the grounds still. It's a reasonably. There's three thousand barrels that were spilled at surface. There's line of dead mistreat six months later. That's very clearly indicated on the rancho. Does you come in and see the twenty location. Where's the groundwater monitoring wells for the three thousand barrels service whereas the site remediation plan for the three thousand barrels and restoration of mosquitoes that they put right six months later. I haven't seen a plan. There's still nothing documentation as twenty four. We're told were supposed to get a four or five monitoring well can't drill campaign drilled around the twenty four to determine the airline stand of the possible subsurface into the surface aquifer and also wounded the rossler and then there's a huge soil blowing up all the cliche disposal for all the messes that made on the twenty four work Remediation upliftment abandoned operation and and there were a lot spills like we headlined flow. We had we had failed. Leaks was mud matt's etcetera etcetera. So they got a lot of dirt work to do around locations well again. Not atypical component of our business. But again there has to be a form of planet to what live and how this done still haven't seen it now. I i worked. Chevron i worked for the business units i believe a lot of what they say is what the truly enacting what they do and i got to say. It's a really hard to look at the snow and say is this really sharp like this. This is not the chevron we deal with on a regular basis but remember this business. Unit is the environmental management company. That doesn't have to follow the soap's chevron corporate dnc the mc bu business unit out of midland has a has to fall with corporate guidance. I worked for our goals mexico. I've worked for more. see aberdeen. The we have global appease that have be violent executed according to global global standards. Emc doesn't have follow sharp over guts. Ep ex and be paid. It's kind of like seo. Exxon that's never been corporated. Exxon because actually open never meet exxon's for guidance on their well-designed sender documentations. How they do what they do. So emc is given somewhat about a leniency. Pass here on having to follow the strict chevron dnc corporate sob's. I i think if you look at it from outside chevron you say. Emc is thing as mcp you. But they're not the two totally different business. Units one works for the real estate company. One the drilling completions purpose. Then there is really hard to grasp that this circumstances because emc not because the way chevron dnc words. And that's what got me. A bit puzzled is that it is hard to grasp that chevron would act so differently than their other counterparts but the data that we have in front of us and their action plans and what they've submitted isn't following chevron four brigades so again there's a lot of very strange things about this. The fact that like i said earlier i was a bit ignorant in thinking that chevron was just discovering at is the first time soon across load in this. This field had surface expressions. Well no it's that the engineers and the people that were involved were just out on the twenty months previously. The wanna want is just right behind the also was in well-controlled and ironically couldn't get to the workover on that well because the road was flooded out from the estes twenty blowout so it's not like it's not like chevron internally didn't know this field was a disaster now i don't know how how you quantify that from their internal documentation without a massive amount of litigation discovery. But there's a part of justin. It really stinks. When you look at it and say we'll knew you had a dog. You sold off liability in this one came back Will then why didn't you just stuck. The bits wants to say the them eight you sold it took liability old. Well sister problems. Why would you take ownership of. Yeah i mean. I i don't disagree with you on that. I mean it seems to me like the easiest thing to you because this field is i mean. I don't remember the exact number of the production. But when i like that it's basically almost dead. Anyway i i just if i were in his shoes and if i thought i was creating this issue by my injection you know a. You'd probably shut that injection off in that field. You know i'd probably go back to chevron delight whatever. I paid you for this field. I'm online back. It's probably the only three million dollars or four million dollars. I don't know probably minimal amount of money in. Frankly if you shut the injection off. You'd probably whether there was other plugging issues. Whether there was future groundwater contamination issues that could occur. You would just never You'd never get there because you wouldn't be adding pressure into the reservoir with the injection and they weren't agreement that the first step is going to be the half get somebody off center. Whether it's chevron fits or roaf mission somebody to shut it in the injections and say does that have any effect on dissipating in the pressure in the energy is that second thing is and i and i don't disagree with you on this chris. That from ashley's point of view. It's about protecting from six hundred feet right. If you wanna leave the underground broaden a complete cluster. Fuck that that that's fine. He my guest right. It's not technically in her interest. As long as it doesn't contaminate above the salatto into the wrestler. She doesn't give a damn about the subsurface finishing because not great right because it does lead to risk potentially whether other wells but if it is truly contained in the dwell designs chrysler you could say okay but the problem is when you go look at the old gulf oil sixteen inch casing designed thinks that at one hundred fifty five at nine five eight. It's not isolated across fourteen hundred eight hundred fifty five if that pressure fields communicating through the through that interval near the sixteen inch designs. You've got the risk loss cross. Slow from fourteen. Seventy five enroll all the way up to one hundred fifty five feet. But i think we agree that that fourteen hundred interval is the pressure. That's is due to cross flow from a deeper zone injection right. I wouldn't disagree. It's it's hard to imagine anybody. Nobody legally permitted to dispose of water at the tansel unit. So if somebody is injecting his hansel petroleum violation of the railroad commission so on the permited wells. That are tactic. Aren't acting into the san andreas. Or they're injecting into the devonian or the know injecting into other other d reservoirs My personal ceiling is that want one or more of these injectors got leaking annual or isolation as long cross load occur but again until you re entered the injectors you can't prove that cross low model right and then the other thing is that which which is legitimate that chevron started water infection in the field in the sixties these wells didn't have the greatest case in designs relations. Was there a possibility that some of these wells during the water injection for the water flooding could have caused a crossover curve from over pressurizing. The san andreas in the water flood. I mean they produced about a million and a half barrel oil from the nineteen sixties onwards. They injected four and a half million barrels of water. That that over that over volume ejection versus what you took out on a daily basis over the course of fifty years has added up to a hell of a lot of water so is the san andreas water flood across swelling into the shallower intervals. That that may be circumstance. Sorry i'm not ruling that out either. But i i. I definitely agree with the the natural state of what occurred between thirteen. Twenty six thousand. Four hundred ninety five did not exist in nineteen fifty. Five did not exist in nineteen ninety-five. Yeah so either. You gotta rogue ejection. Welsomer out there again. I mean if you got pressure like that do if it's continuous sand body does not localize fourteen hundred feet in In that that pressure would dissipate over that areal extent over a long enough time line You know so It's pretty weird than that. You could have that volume at that depth. That pressure in a localized 'cause it's not like it got shut off ten years ago and you still have that pressure. I mean that dissipates over that time line so You know. I think that's an interesting question rate. They would be. I seemed like you said there's a cordial disposal offset. But it has to be injecting zimmer. Deeper ronin yeah. But it's you know is it. Is it plausible Thank like a gay like that zone would take the volume that they wanted. They set the packer higher. Shot you know sand. They weren't goes to now. They're getting into that. I don't think that's an unfeasible scenario. Like you know like that would be an interesting question. I think. I think if i were looking at it from that perspective in you looked at wears their active injection happening in this field. And what is the web design on those wells right like okay i would. I would contend that as it gets closer to surface it gets it in worse shape so it would be hard to jack. That thousand psi surface expected to go down to the zone that you know you hypothetically thought you were rejecting into and then it circulated up in then. Have some kind of containment that so that you don't have annual pressure at surface then make it injected fourteen hundred would be really unlikely to me so within that con- i mean if you had an extra strength casing in it maybe that becomes possible. You had some kind of intermediate but would guess again that. That's probably less likely. Also so i mean i just feel like then you're saying i'm really really got a couple of possibilities But either one of them probably lends itself to. There's an injection while going on out there. That is in the area that somebody's in his own. They shouldn't be in like you know. Is that going to cause issues Would that create issues in terms of what the injection or what the plugging and abandoned procedures were of course. Because that's you know how The railroad commission defined right. Like if they were going to say like there is an active injected deductions zone at fourteen hundred feet. Therefore you need to cover it up with cement whenever you plug these wells and so i would assume that because there's nobody supposed to be injecting into that zone that you wouldn't have that procedure in you're plugging and so you know. What issues does that create. If somebody's breaking at rule would be completely different conversation than the one or having in in if that's the case then whoever that person is should be locked trouble i mean that's that'd be serious stuff agreed and i would say that you know. I think we've done a pretty deep dive. On the potential scenarios of either water-injection. Our water flooding across the the problems doubts that where mission it forcing a temporary restraining or or a cease-and-desist Sowing the job. I did and chaos and in east texas the operator had a well was drilled in ninety three entered the water disposal wells about five miles away injected eighty six million barrels of produced water in this. Well we were on a cross slow from thirty six hundred feet. Thirty eight hundred feet. Two thousand seats About ten million barrels process based on the reservoir model and lyric mission at the time in that district pretty much said it's the operator's fault for not designing well in nineteen ninety three before the water disposal came on for failure to have adequate isolation for potential risk of of the austin shocking expos for water disposal The engineers that designed well would have lifted column or devi job to about isolation on their head. They know it's going to be a future problem. But that was never the case. They drilled it with eight six water based mud. And you know again drill the travis beacon cotton valley zone slice it. There was never a risk of the time in ninety-three when richly drilled miracle rushing around blamed the operator for lack of angela 'isolation causing crosswalk And i have to say the rare commissions modus operandi when it comes to water disposal problems. It's not supplying water. exposal company. Their first thing is they usually go out and they blamed operator for failure. Designer for war anticipate future problems in a plugged and abandoned. Well like design at fourteen. Ninety five should have been in the is not a authorized. Water disposables on so. I don't see how the gulf oil guys even if they've done their job right it wouldn't have plans or isolation had the known. It was going to be a future risk. That would have done that. But again how i would disagree that i mean the impetus on the disposal zone operator to inject water into something. That's not In oklahoma. I don't know what it is in texas. But it's you know there's a mile radius yet to notify anybody if you're gonna jackson zone and you have to get approval. Basically so because i mean the the case law of course or you know the impetus of all oil and gas law leads. The you know it's it's there to protect mineral production. It's there to protect the producers of the mineral estate in so within that context. It's just simply is as simple as creating casing leaks in producing wells. There offset that disposal injection. Well then i guess. I found that they generally don't allow you to do that a. I guess. I just disagree a little bit on that i mean i think that the impetus is on the disposal in giang disposable companies out here aptly gonna jump in do a full completion logging and evaluate their angular casing none. We're going to do that. They're they're gonna drown. Is a if anything i'm gonna sell it off. Transfer reliability somewhere else or or to shut my operations down in move on to the next location like it wouldn't permit you. Guess my point like if you tried to permit injecting at a fourteen hundred foot sand and you had a bunch of wells all around you. That didn't have seen up to that. Fourteen hundred hundred sand than you know within a mile radius ignore. You're just gonna swiss cheese production casing so they're gonna get an operator just have even if it's just self as motivations for for you know getting their their severance tax paid having so i just wish the royal commission which big active role in helping to determine what's the cause the energy source and helping helping to identify instead of going up and if turned us into a bit of a goat roping three ring circus Regarding this narrow. And i don't agree with the ostriches head-in-the-sand approach to the data suggested this artificial at fourteen. Seventy five wasn't here twenty five years and there is a problem. I'm the last guy that should be opining on on this. Just being the finance guy but just gut reaction from stuff at cain looking at the different regulatory regimes. Oklahoma seemed to be a lot more thoughtful considerate protective of implementing wastewater disposal. I mean they would make shoot three d. seismic to make sure there was no big fault through there and in texas did have a more kinda lasi fair whatever type mindset to it but Maybe what let's let's do here kinda close on You know listening to your stuff kind of simplifying it down. I'll put this scenario out here and see see if we agree but it sounds like potentially if we stopped injecting water here pits Or otherwise potentially the the problem dissipates. Potentially the groundwater is save. And i'll i'll put a little astros next to that 'cause chris i think you'd say hey. There could be other problems here. That i don't know about the like but you know if that's if that's the solution which protects the groundwater i mean i think you're right chris. What did pits pay for this. Two three four million bucks That doesn't sound that expensive to make the problem. Go away but i'll leave it there and give you twenty guys. The last word. I have that that's fine. I think it's unfortunate narrow that the pits bought a lame duck. Fields chevron didn't didn't really publicly disclose all of the challenges of yesterday's field in the documentation of all the stuff Now you could blame him for his team for failure to the diligence really truly risk assess stuck with their buying a price. They were getting at But again you know this notion that the big boys sell-offs software smaller guys and that you know. Let's say this goes bankruptcy because the next one comes to surface crates like ashley and is unremarkable. And it's a constant services to the san andreas to surface. She ends up with a wink sink in a court chain link fence around the property groundwater now permanently fox like it's it's is in bankruptcy litigation our night. This is the problem this data texas. This is the problem. With the the whole model of selling off the liability had just been the gulf of mexico repealing federal and it would roll back to the previous operator so chevron on the hook for in this narrow to me. Hits didn't cause these problems in the last night he days no matter how bad their due. Diligence was steve. Incidents teams did knock knock here. Willingly caused crop la or do or do any internet on a single intervention. I mean they changed a couple of days. Valves installed ages and done some basic stuff on the pump. Jacks but like they haven't done any work so everything that was here was already here. Based on what gulf oil aka chevron it turned over to Over the last couple of years. And i think that the estes twenty situation that came when we found out this week that there was a ball out here six months ago. I really think that that chevron had impetus to just to try to fire sale this to somebody who was willing to take the liability and the problem is that since the twenty four blue route ninety days after they've got acquisition and before the one year you know conditions in the closet the lease term execute in terms of long term liability. I think it's got a great case chevron tough ship you know twenty years the twenty four years. It's a plug and abandoned. Well let's come back to life. And i'm scared to death to see what happens when on earth the five the age and the Seven the original list as well as with sixteen casing designs. They don't have ninety five Isolated and if we find out that those are the causation. That's your direct link to one hundred fifty five feet into the santa rosa water table. So chevron this handled this event from the start in terms of how they did the twenty nine notifying ashley though site remediation on the twenty twenty four ends up having surface expressions. They lost a fair about getting out here to get sorted out send a crew out with a nice sweater. They don't they honor the well. There's all we'll come back monday with wellhead crew and will sort it out. No you'd better leaking. Well that's going to start in the wac groundwater you're gonna take care of it now Things like that. They really screwed up enforcement of just did nothing. But this ashley off to level the great. Which i if i was in her. She used i. I think i would have been a lot worse than she has But in the same token then they improved like got the situation under control. We were getting rob states. They were working forwards in terms of things and then it changed all of a sudden on july six when we saw the superstar. Joan in fourteen. Seventy five owl's everything changed and the last couple of weeks has gotten quiets. people have disappeared. There's no tenny ops calls The discussion points have gotten talks. Lawyers like it it is. It has all changed since july. Sixth and having spent we've already cemented back the case shoot three times and drilled it out through times. And something's not right. We've got holes. In the ninety five eighths casing we can't pass oppression ticketing test on the case. Which does got flow online at five. Eight stays inside. I i keep saying to people that you know. The definition of insanity is beating. Saint abraham expecting a different outcome if cement plug does not hold over the next weeks and we pressure increase on wall or flow potential swell. Look there's no way in hell water aqua frock airflow on its own. So that means you're connected to something that's got pressure that's communicating into the water tape like or you've got a force failed cement like it. What point in this. You say you've got to come up with a different approach and status and to be honest of all well-controlled jobs and underground blowouts coming out here thinking that this was just a one zone flow up the ambulance looking like an overflowing toilet the cutback to ninety five as percent of an inch turned into a remarkably technically complex problem ehrlich student number of wells potential other scenario speeding into it that i say this this. This is a rare doc in my in my book of hundreds of well control events this this is a rare docked to see something. This truly technically complex. Yeah i mean it's definitely. There's definitely a lot of problems i just. It seems like even if i was going to be selfish from the perspective of chevron it's it's what you said it's you can't have that pressure there without injection happening in somewhere near proximity most likely probably one of the wells or You know. I don't know the area well enough to say that. There's some rogue injection well nearby. That's injecting into this. That shouldn't be Sometimes water floods especially old ones They're trying to get rid of water as they're injecting right like they're producing a tenth of a percent of Natives wanted to take the produced water instead of recycling. Stick it into a different zone in. You know maybe that has happening in. It should be But within that context i would highly suspect Without again knowing the specifics. But if you shut the injection down on this pittsfield that it would all go away in them. You know as these things dissipate over time. You know if if you just wanted to say like. I just wanna like Walk away from this liability. Not actually fix the wellborn that maybe were plugged properly that you stop the injection than there would be any more issues because everything would balance out equalised in you'd have you know bad plugged wells. It would sit there for a long time and nobody would probably Nobody would have any problems. I would guess and again like it's within a static environment Facts without actual humans adding pressure injection. That you would expect that to then cross flow up into the surface known even if the plugging job had been done improperly just because water gradients going to be the water gradient the heavy water the saltwater stays at the bottom of the freshwater lightwater stays at the top and that's how we wound up in the situation we are having right that's why fresh water surface and that's why there is water In so i don't know it just seems like within you know i'm just. I would be surprised from chevrons perspective. I'd say like even if i was pets like if i was pissed i said this thing's mass like chevron money back and You know then chevron chest wells plugs mouth in the whole dramas kind of over. It seems like But you know. I think that would be a very reasonable conclusion if we can get to that level of conversation with without the attorneys because i think ultimately the end of the day. Somebody's going to have to re enter. These old well bores. It's is gonna argue that they took it over ninety days ago that this was in the ground since the nineties earlier sixties that it's not their responsibility reenter these old wells to to rectify chevrons old history. And i think that's a reasonable argument. We had but again you know it comes down to the clauses in the contract who wrote what. What a deputy do they have on the old liabilities etcetera etcetera. But it gets me is at the end of the day regardless of all the league goal. Bullshit on the other end. The fact is the wells need plugs. They need confirmed that is leading the validated and verified with lodge physical data on pressure test data to show the fact that there are properly isolated for the next hundred years. You know realistically are we going to solve. Are we going to solve the next next step. Change in plug abandonment on this fields to build securities for a thousand years snow. You know ashes thirty five years old. I told her. I said i would hope by the time. You're an old lady at eighty five. You know that that you will had closure on all the problems. I hope if the years now. I hope for her sake she's got emotional closure on what's happened out here on this match. The reality is that maybe she gets over the next five or ten years but the reality is that. I hate to say this and i said store and realistic expectations. There isn't going to be an easy answer. This is gonna be a long litigation case is going to be a pissing match in court over jurisdiction arguments in technical challenges around certain things right. There's going to be the battle between chevron it's involved with the same time there's going to be other operators who are going to step in chevron for screwing up their wells because they're going to have to plug and abandon early like the circumstance ranch that could be. Let's just find. The problem. solved the energy source. Let's find a way to make sure that brown waters isolated closed. This chapter would be the most reasonable course actions that that's not what's going to happen well and i appreciate bill you coming on and sharing all this and chris. I appreciate you a lot. Because i don't have the engineering chops to be able to have had as fruitful discussion as you two guys do and i may be alone on my soapbox here but i truly believe that if we as an industry want to be around and not get run out of business by the other side. We've got a police ourselves. And we've got to do the right thing. Because i truly believe in my heart hearts and just conversations i'm having in this is anecdotal and you. Two guys may disagree with me on this. But at the end of the day. I think the reason the environmentalist hate us so much is not because we're burning hydrocarbons and co twos. Being admitted. i think in their in their heart-to-heart though admit. Yeah we drive. Suv's too it's pretty cool. And we get our life spanned doubles when we start using hydrocarbons over shit and wood burning furnaces to power our lives. I think truly hate us because they don't think they can trust us And i know we hate them because they don't think we don't think we can trust them and you know how do you break that. I think you break that by situations like this. Problem happens if the industry can step up and fix it and and kinda put it put it behind us and show that will be responsible operators. That's at least a little step towards that direction so really both you guys. Yeah just to throw in one thing on that. If you look at the feedback you got. After ashley's invasion by the people in the oil and gas industry that was really negative commentary. There were some really shitty comments made about her About the ranch about this narrow like oh here's somebody bitch about they want more benefit etcetera etcetera. Thanks the people knew gas industry that don't grasp the fact that he did. She is a landowner who is acceptable of having willing gas properties. But protecting do. It's do the right thing by protecting the groundwater not picking a mess notifying her of the issues right. That's not a big ask. Is the land. Do not anti-whaling gas. I gotta say it. You know looking. At the scenario in the industry of the comments on twitter and lincoln regarding people that push back to the gas art. It's like you all of a sudden you're streaming leftist environmentalist who wants to screw oil and gas over crystal money at work twenty one years in this business like i've seen the skeletons in the closets. Immerse response is. I'm not anti and gas. But i got to say if you're looking at the landowners perspective on this. You gotta realize she got handed a really crappy set apart. We'll bills anger and bill her fault yet. No bill. it's it's interesting. Because i agree with you. There was feedback that was definitely negative in. It was definitely very loud and and such but at the end of the day. I got a lot of private messages and texts from a lot of folks in the industry saying that was a good story to tell because we just have we meaning we the industry. We've got a step up and be responsible and show that we can be be appropriate actors because at the end of the day if not we'll get run out of business we're not gonna stop. We're not gonna stop oil consumption mean leonardo's gonna fly around on his jet now gore's gonna have his forty thousand square foot house so we're not going to get rid of consumption. It's just a question of whether we push it all all the supply to russia saudi arabia. And if they get their act together venezuela so yeah no i i think i think ashley got way more support if i had to just tally up votes and i think the the the folks that were screaming kind of you know. Oh you're hurting. The industry by doing that were particularly loud but it was a smaller smaller choir. If you will yeah. I i think the end of the day. We're going to end up with more regulation because honestly industry has done a shitty job with the years of being self regulated and having been in this business for the last twenty years. I've seen a lot of changes. And i gotta say the most effective sanctions have come through regulatory compliance. And give them. I'm gonna give chris the the last word on this to see what he says. But i agree with you. And i when i talk about. We were shitty. 'cause i'm fifty two years old when we were shitty and we would mock people and print bumper stickers of freeze a yankee and all that i say that as someone that loves the the industry and quite frankly was probably part of the problem back in my younger days. So so yeah. Unfortunately we're gonna wind up with a lot more regulation. It'd be nice if we could just learn to to to do the right thing on our own so that we wouldn't have that regulation. But chris let me give you the last word. Yeah i mean. I think that Maybe i would disagree a little bit from my experience You know all the field staff that i've ever worked with their a think. Ironically they might not express it in the same way. But they're actually environmentalists in the purest sense. Because they're all outdoorsman. They spend all their time hunting fishing. They all have land. They all right around on their four wheelers on their land There's nobody no group of people that that love the environment in a pure sense because they're in it every day than the people that work in the oilfield in so you know. I think that what we have in our country is that the people that are doing the work and have the practical knowledge. are actually stewards of the environment from my experience Because they understand what is a real problem in. What is not a real problem in. And they don't want to see the environment hurt any any worse than anybody else but So you know within that pipe of personality. The practical mindset is where. I think we've gone wrong in our country because you know. I don't think that it's possible to make hundred million barrels a day across the world and never have oil spill. And you know the expectation needs to meet reality because this is a huge undertaking. It's it's the drilling completions. The movement the putting it on ships taking a refineries the processes the amount of energy. That's all of this process. You can't say that all of these things can happen seamlessly we're never going to spill a drop oil. And so you know you have to get back into something where he say like what is reasonable and then you have to say what is the cost benefit of it right like let's say we do shutdown download What is what is the cost to our society of doing that. Like nobody talks about the cost of what happens in a barrel of oil is ten dollars more expensive and you know all of us on the phone. It's not a determining factor will do. But you know what some people don't drive home for thanksgiving because they can't afford the gasoline they don't buy the plane ticket. Go visit their brother because they can't afford it right and so i think there is a cost to that right like in you saying what is what is the environmental costs. What is the human cost. What is what is the guy i mean. It's stupid but like the guy that doesn't go home for thanksgiving i mean. What does that do mental health right. Like i mean there's real issue with what we've decided to embark on in you. Can you can cry. Foul on anything. And that's the easy argument. That's that's the lazy way to approach a problem. And just say it's it's it. We shouldn't spend we. Shouldn't you know spill a drop oil. Where does it stop like you say like every day that you drive your car becomes less save every day that a plane flies in the sky. It's less safe than the day was bill right. Like what are we going to start using. Planes one time and saying while safety factor here is unacceptable and we should have disposable airplanes right. I mean you get ridiculous at some point into you. Just say like there's an acceptable amount of tolerance that we have the risk that is in every operation that can do now the people that want to shut down oil and gas is that the way they think about it is that they're logic now like i think that the problem the situation is that i think it's become a right and left issue in the same way you know trump went after state tax deductions of your federal law. Does that hurt. Big big city people in the east and west coast right okay. Well that's the way to stick the jab into the liberals in what you see now like donald regulations coming from laughter here to hurt the business because that's where the rights voter money in voter base and all that is right and so like. I don't think it's fair to say that like the response is an actual response to real problems in real issues. Like i think what you actually see is that you've got a identity politics playing and you've got you know people on left side trying to hurt. The rights is on the right side Left side one of the way the left's tries to heart right is to go after you know manufacturing go after energy business right. 'cause they're all the rights that's all right people so i disagree that that our industry deserves. We've got in it. You know. I mean there's there's logical the real regulation but there's also getting one hundred thousand dollar fine for billing a barrel oil in the ground and that that's happened and that's there to hurt us and that's not logical or real response to the problem. That's just the way to hurt the business and the people in it chris. I think if the s if the esters ranches any proof of the gases arguments of a location that the landowner should be able to have restoration to her property safety and protection over property. They have failed immensely demonstratively by their actions have heard on this place since nineteen twenty four so if if the field is representative which may which you could make the case it is not representative of all of all oilfields. The united states but certainly indicates out here in the situation of the There is no doubt that the antena cattle ranches property has been affected by iowa on gas operations. Yeah and i'll close this. I chris. That was really well. Well well said. And i appreciate the Defense and i'll say this to close it out. Because i believe the three of us would agree with this in general at the end of the day. And i don't say this enough and are really should. I truly believe it's a few bad actors out in the business that That really cause most of the problems as as is most things in life. I i agree with you. Chris wholeheartedly that the people i worked for the portfolio companies backing can back at cain days and the people that would buy our stuff. You know we'd sell the chesapeake x t o and the like. I mean those folks really truly did care about doing the right thing and so you know stuff pops up That maybe doesn't get handled as as well as they should. And you got a few bad apples out there. And i i do think if could figure out a way to kind of quote unquote regulate that self-regulate that i think the industry would be in a better. Pr place but again. I appreciate you guys coming in. Go ahead built day. Thank you very much. The invite presented op tony. Thanks for the discussion. I gotta say that when the next estes welcomes two surface a love a love to see how the industry is going to respond to the The next blowout at the rarick missions. Denial does should the end the lack of addressing this from the situation. It's just a matter of time so whether it's six months or whether it's a year from now i suspect we're having conversation about another well out here. Yeah we'll you're you're definitely shining allied on it in chris. Appreciate you coming in and helping shine that light as well. Thanks for the invite. Check nice to meet you bill. Likewise never have a great guys. Thanks again for the time. Thanks guys t- job.

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