2 Episode results for "Taylor funeral"
Taylor Behl /// Part 2 /// 397
"Welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick with me as always is a man who is that. Twist of lime. You absolutely needed but not necessarily asked for. He is the captain. It's good to be seen and it's good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. Today we are drinking up some blueberry thrill from our friends at Sascha Hana Brewing Company. This radler is zesty. Sweet Bright and refreshing. Ab four point two percent garage grade three and three quarter bottlecaps out of five and this week. We are giving cheers to our good friends here. First UP WE HAVE Catherine in Dallas Texas and the big shots of Vanessa in the party room in parts unknown. Here we go captain. We have a shout out to Fatty Patty in Oviedo Florida and a big shallow to Ashton in Knoxville Tennessee. Next up we have Natalie in Portland Maine and last but certainly not least we have all the in Charlotte North Carolina. Thanks to everyone for contributing to this week Spear Fund. If you want to fill up the beer truck for next week just go to true crime. Garage DOT COM and. Click on the donate button. And if you need more true crime garage I need some more. Let me get through the announcements. Please go download stitcher APP. It's free you can listen to all of our old episodes and if you download stitcher premium app you can get off the record our bonus show and that is enough of the business all right. Everybody gathered around. Grab Chair grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. So thanks to Taylor Beales online post. Investigators knew that Taylor and Ben Fawley had passed and continue to talk online and possibly even see each other but the more troubling thing. Here captain is Ben. Fawley online claims to be an ex CON which absolutely turns out to be true. So what did this Do Burger do. Well he had some charges for assault and breaking and entering and I think it goes even beyond that one thing that I find. Extra troubling here is statements. We have from some of her friends. The say that Taylor had gotten into this habit of parking her car on Ben Fawley Street on the street that he lived on because there were no parking meters there for her to worry about. So what I'm getting at here with this captain is we have this situation where there seems to be some kind of friendship between the two. It looks to me like Ben. Fawley thinks that it is. The friendship is one thing that it is not and then we also have the situation of heat. He's got a violent past a history of violence and he also probably could know when she's coming and going because he could visually see her vehicle parked on his street. Well yeah and again the ruse of our some photos for you and and we know that he's involved in these odd pornographic sites well in regardless of whatever. Their relationship was or their friendship. I should say friendship because relationship makes it sound like something that was not regardless of what their friendship was. The the thing is her friends that knew about folly. All really say hey. I think she was starting to realize that Ben Folly was more screwed up than she really wanted to deal with but again it appears that they may still have been hanging out. Now when questioned by police about this friendship with Taylor Ben. Fawley said that he had no idea where she was and he was worried about our. He said the last time he saw her was around nine thirty pm on that Monday night when she left his apartment after they he said after they hooked up. Police didn't believe him and fact they named him as one of several persons of interest in the case on October third but the problem was ben folly maintained that he had an alibi before Taylor had even been reported missing. Ben Fawley went to the police station and filed a report alleging that he had been assaulted on the street by several guys. The timeframe he cited for the attack was around five. Am on September six. This occurred in an alley near Franklin Street and Monument Avenue Folly alleged that he was hit with an unknown object in a bag placed over his head and then he was thrown in a car and driven around by several men before being released on a dirt road and he had to hitch a ride home and they do have evidence of this. We have the person that he hits ride from saying. You know cooperating. The story to eat markings on his individual. Well so police looked carefully at this claim. Trying to determine like you said captain whether this was true or not the problem is if it is true that it seems very likely that folly could not have been responsible for abducting Taylor folly filed this report around four. Pm on Tuesday. He made vague references to the attack. Likely being a result of a long running altercation with with an axe or another photographer over rights to some photographs which seems a little loosey. Goosey to me while you know those photographers they like to. There are bad bunch they they they have a gang of people. And they're gonNA abduct you place a bag over your head and hit you with objects. The police officer whose name appears on the incident report did note that folly admitted that he was extremely. He says he was extremely intoxicated. When the alleged attack took place he also said that he took medication for bipolar disorder. Now Okay and let's let's dive into that real quick because most of the the medication that you would be on for bipolar or not things that you would one want to drink on but they could also cause you death if you do drink on those medications again though you are. A- level individual who makes good decisions. We once again find ourselves discussing a guy who does not make good decisions. I would be taken this Report as officer and when I would say officer's name I'd put silly goose so the thing that I have trouble with here I don't know really why this would be considered any type of alibi because folly says it. He lasts all Taylor if we are to believe him at nine thirty PM and then maintain that the attack happened at five. Am right hours hours later. Seems to me like you had plenty of time to a doctor kill or do whatever during that that timeframe bought and we have footage of her leaving her dorm but they're going to find footage of him outside her dorm room Yeah so but again. He's not denying that they hung out that night. Well and the thing is I think what we have here is really kind of front. A bit of a tactic by police. We saw how smart they were with the vehicle situation. Valence vehicle. Yeah I think they thought. Hey this Ben Fawley. He's pretty dumb. He's pretty stupid. We had a meeting all right all of us. Investigators and police officers we got together and we took a vote and we decided this guy's a real idiot. So here's how the meeting went a raise your hand if you think this guy is a dumb ass and nineteen hands went up and then one guy was just kind of sitting there playing on his phone he he wasn't paying attention now. One Guy was one guy was like but I really like his van. I saw it on the news. Pretty Cool So I think they all kind of agreed. This guy's an idiot and they're like publicly let's go out and say hey we we understand. He's somebody that we're interested in. We understand that there was some kind of friendship going on. But we have to clear we have to figure this whole. He was allegedly attacked situation. Out We have to figure out if he actually has an alibi or not make him think that you're kind of falling for right And see if he does something dumb because this guy has nothing but a history of thirty some years of doing dumb things. So he may. He may give you whatever you need. He may give you that smoking gun so you can figure out what he is actually been up to because even though we have them on record saying that. I don't believe that they were falling for anything that he was saying. And I also like you said. Where's the evidence of this do? Where's the person that gave you the ride home yet? I'm trying to see where you're going with this guy and my timeline. I know what cops do next but I'm wondering if I'm missing something. Well I really think that it was just a to me. It looks just like a front that they were putting on at the time. I think behind closed doors. They didn't think anything of this alleged attack other than it was a false alibi that it was something that he created to explain away a big window of time that he needs to be accounted for What seems like our thoughts about their investigation. Captain are correct. I mean they seem to be suspicious folly and this did not come out until later but what we do know took place that police did review that security cameras surveillance footage from Taylor's dorm on the last night that she was seeing and asked said she seen entering the building around ten twenty pm. She walks through the lobby to the doors on the right hand side of the frame presumably to head up to her room but someone else then enters the lobby at ten twenty one and paces around for a few minutes clearly waiting for someone. And who is this person? Data Ben Fawley Boehner sniffer so his statement of Hey. I last saw her in the nine o'clock hour can't be true. You followed her in. We have video surveillance footage of you following her into the lobby of her residence at ten. Twenty in the ten o'clock hour right in that she's GonNa come back out to hang out with them so again we know he's lying about the timeframe or dismiss remembering but it's almost like he knew that he was caught on tape so he has to omit that he was hanging out with her that night. I don't understand this whole I was attacked and that set in alibi but the timeframe would be early morning hours and not around that ten PM to twelve PM window but I think where he really messed up is when he was telling the cops well and we hooked up that night. Now we have her friends saying yes. They were intimate before but she didn't want to do that again. That's not to say that she wouldn't of been intimate with them again. I mean we. We have proof that she was intimate with him before so I would actually argue that that would mean there's more of a possibility just because she told her friends that she didn't want to do it again but that leads to please to go. Well she's seventeen and this is going to be enough for us to get a search warrant to search his apartment while you are exactly right because what's going on here. I believe re reading between the lines. I think that police had an idea that folly was with her at a time that he did not give to them. I think they knew that for a while I think there are. They are trying to figure out what else was he involved in and I also think that just because they didn't ask him about that ten o'clock hour he may be unaware of the security camera footage that he was seen on camera. They were seen on camera together at ten twenty four and then they both leave their joint. Departure is not actually caught on camera but neither of them are seen on camera again so we can assume that they left together while here. Here's why say not? Not Maybe the footage that the cops actually had. But here's this guy that's been around campus long enough to know. The campus is heavily secure. There's tons of security cameras everywhere so knowing that you met her on campus you could just assume that at some point they have you on video foot bright and maybe nine thirty thing is it his way of trying to explain that away right but also by sane knowing that you met her on campus. This is why you have to tell the police while I was with her that night for a little bit we hooked up and then she left and I don't know what happened to her. So the security surveillance footage plus the fact that he willingly tells police we hooked up. She's underage. This is enough to allow officers to obtain a search warrant for Ben Follies apartment which was located at four zero seven Hancock Street on September sixteenth. They went in and searched this apartment and the search warrant. Must have included. You know you have to specifically state what you are seeking in this war. A must've included electronic devices. Because we know that police left carrying some computers after this I search and what they found on those computers lead to the arrest of Ben Fawley on September. Twenty third. Captain would you like to do the honors and inform us as to what was found on these computers? Well what's interesting is. I don't think it's just on the computers. I think maybe also on diskin things like that. There was a lot of child pornography. He tries to explain that away by Saint. Some of this was laughed by the tenant before me. I didn't even know it was there. But that connects plane away the child pornography that was actually found on the hard drives and they had multiple computers with extremely large amounts of hard drive space. I mean especially for that time. Two thousand five. That's right there so there wasn't really anything on the computers linking folly directly to Taylor's disappearance although there were those pictures of her that we discussed hundreds of pictures of her yeah and hundreds of pictures of images of child pornography. Well on not just what bribed but the media release. Yeah I mean not just that but also just tons of Berry. I don't know what the creek term would be. You have pornography and then you have this more like this demotic pornography. Okay so this next bits going to the next ninety seconds might get a little difficult to listen to. But here's what I have in my notes. Okay so police said they discovered a massive quote a massive amount of extremely graphic child pornography featuring children as young as three and four years old being raped by some reports as many as seven computers loaded with pornography were confiscated from the apartment according to the Richmond Times dispatch senior assistant. Commonwealth's Attorney Mike Jag oils. Later told judge Kimberly O'Donnell that there were as many as thirty movie files discovered on computers. That were removed from follies apartment. Some depicting acts with minors as young as one. This is this just tough to even read minors young as one or two years old and others featuring individuals ten to fourteen years old folly of course maintain that the computers were not his as you pointed out. He says they belong to a former resident of the apartment. No one was buying this load crap that he was trying to shovel Robert. This just proves how this guy's story changes constantly. He's always has some excuse for things and so that's when you really know that. Most likely whatever happened to her was at the hands of this individual so like we said this results in his arrest and also results in a second more comprehensive search of his apartment while that. But here's what's Great. We can put him in for these charges and then because of these charges we can go back and look for more evidence we can build our case and know exactly where he is and hold him and he can't do anything to get rid of evidence in the process so the things that they were looking for in the second search many of the items that were listed on the search warrant included things that would belong to Taylor. You know her clothing her her jeans. Black Hoodie sneakers. Black Watch bracelets Saint Francis Necklace student. Id Nokia Cell Phone and car keys. All of that's listed on the war also listed. Were skateboards sometimes. You WanNa put a generic term out there so you can take any skateboard that you find burglary tools. This would probably go back to his previous convictions. There are also looking for knives hammers shovels and pry bars. And then I found this to be strangers. Always something strange listed on these search warrants on here we have the ever suspicious pepperidge farm cookie boxes but yeah I couldn't figure out I have no idea why this would be on the warrant. The cops were hungry. I don't know if they had reason to believe that she would have had one of these cookie boxes in her possession at the time that she went missing and maybe that then they can go. Okay is it might be coincidence. But it also might be a sign that she was here right later that night. I don't have a complete look. Incomplete list of what was found in the apartment. But here's what we do know was taken out of the house. Pursuant to the search warrants women's white underwear a laptop computer a Macintosh computer a digital camera sex toys including dildos and spiked bracelets a knife. Two bags of clothes from a garbage can outside of the house a beaded necklace with a cross from this was removed from the garbage as well. A bicycle chain necklace. A watch from the garbage can a thirty five millimeter camera. A box containing bones. He collected weird things like that where everybody has a right to have weird shit. Oh Yeah Yeah we we we. We all probably own some weird shit rolls of film. I mean we probably don't have a bunch of dildos lane around A black brawl a machete. Cigarette BUTTS A prescription bottle skateboards they did find skateboards yearbook a hatchet. A hammer a pry bar a thirty two caliber cartridge and a partridge in a pear tree. I mean it just goes on and on and on the one thing. That was rather interesting of note here captain. Police also removed a section from a box spring that was stained with some kind of Reddish Brown substance they did include and executed a warrant for follies hair and DNA samples. Not Found Taylor cell phone that they were looking for her college. Id Her car keys again. Anything linking Fawley Ben Fawley directly to Taylor's disappearance does not seem to have been found just on the child porn possession alone police had enough to charge folly with a felony. And as you said hold him while they continue to build a case against him regarding Taylor's disappearance and they also charged him with a possession of a firearm because remember he's a convicted felon. He's not legally permitted to be in possession of a gun but the their investigation takes pretty interesting. Turn as far as because you you collected all the stuff but but where do you go from that? I mean that none of this other than the child porn pornography. Can you charge him with or like you said the the gun possession charged so you can add that on top of things but well. They're going to go to the public for help okay. Because on October eleventh police announced that they were specifically interested in the sightings of the following items between the dates of September fifth and September seventeenth. They WANNA know. Had anybody seen a white Ford escort? That's remember that's the vehicle. Virginia License Plate J. P. C. Twenty eight forty eight and they asked the public to call in sightings of the vehicle and a description of whomever may have been driving the vehicle at the time. They wanted to know who had been driving. Taylor's car around Richmond. During that time that they can't figure out where it was they also wanted people to report any sightings of of Virginia personalized license plates G. R. N. E. R. T. age. This was a plate stolen from a vehicle around the time Taylor disappeared and police believed it might have been in follies possession and they also sought information about that. Ohio state license plate as well right. So what's interesting to me is while they need the public's help it seems like they have a general idea of what was going on. At the time he abducted he did something to Taylor and was moving her vehicle round during the time that it was unaccounted for and he may have been switching out the plates multiple times along the way right. Because if you know this girl's missing you you see work kind of car. She has. How many people saw that car looked at the license plates and went while? That's not her car. Yeah yeah it also came out around the same time? The media reported that folly used his credit card to buy gas in new Kent County between Mathews County and Richmond on the night. That Taylor disappeared. So this really kind of to me would suggest that his later claimed that he was attacked. There doesn't seem to be any time left for that to actually have taken place. It's the old jussie. Smollet jumped farce. We got going on there. Meanwhile Taylor's family lawyer cleaned out Taylor's dorm room taking all of her possessions back to her hometown of Vienna and they stayed at Taylor's family basically stated even if she is found alive she's not going to be returning to vcu at this time. There's too much going on here and 'cause at this point you have to believe that she's -ducted and so if you do find her alive. There's no way that you're GonNa want her parents for her to be around that facility to have any of those bad memories well. Things are looking very very bleak by this time and now they're really honing in on folly and he's locked up and they can start. They WanNa start going through his social circles. Now we're going to publicly asked the public for help but we're going to get into his social circles and ask these people for help and one of the people that they come across. Is this young woman named Aaron who was also a VC use student and somewhat of a friend or acquaintance of Taylor's an oddly kind of looks like she could be related to tailor definitely. Looks like Taylor's mother like there's a lot of similarities there and she's a little older than Taylor She's twenty three at the time. Apparently she dated Ben Fawley for some time. I guess they only dated for a couple of months before Aaron broke up with him and she. She probably didn't WanNa come forward because of such an embarrassment that she dated this Douche in the first place well I think she was the one that the charges some of his previous convictions stemmed from so well. He had a history of these girls after a while. Yeah but oddly he would. He would start dating them and because let me take pictures of you. You're so beautiful. And he would make these girls feel like they're the best thing in the world but then that became all well now. I'm jealous of everybody else and I just love you so much. I'm jealous of everybody else and then become aggressive almost like self sabotaging the relationship like well. And here's the thing to captain going on. Now we've seen a lot of these types of cases anytime. Detectives think that we have somebody who needs to hide something that they never ever want anyone to find they start asking the people that know them best. Okay is there anywhere that he liked to camp or go fishing or go hunting. You know outdoor activities. What does he do and where does he go? They start talking to Aaron. They start showing her picture after picture from his. Pho- photography webpage because they need her to identify some of these locations. Here's picture tell us where you think this area is? Yeah who take pictures of girls and things like that but would also take pictures of old rundown sheds and you know just fields in in random items and locations so one photo that caught her eye. You know she's looking at photo after photo. Finally she sees one and she's like Holy Moly. This might be something here. This is a photo of an old abandoned house with like a Tin Lean to attached to it. The House was oddly enough located on her family farm. Which was about ninety miles away from Richmond in Mathews County right and I think he. She took there at some point. Maybe they've been shot. Shot those photos together well and remember we talked about folly purchasing gas with his credit card right out that night now all of a sudden this photo of an old abandoned house ninety miles away out in the middle of nowhere seems very important for all of our sakes. We need to avoid crowds any way we can right now. But what if you need to go to the post office? What if you need postage to send out letters and don't worry? Stamps DOT COM is here to help with stamp dot com. You can print postage on demand and skip those lines and crowds at the post office. You personally print official. 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Thank you for telling a friend about our little garage show to thanks for your friends not to listen to and thank you to you captain and they and they thank you and thank you to our friends that listen all right. We might have might have had a few too many now. I love you man on October up right on October. Fifth Police headed out to the site. Where that photo was taken this accompanied by Aaron? They photo. Yeah and they're going to be searching this whole area and before too long. They identified a body any plastic bag in a ditch off the side of a wooded road. The remains were very decomposed but were wearing clothing. That was similar to what Taylor was wearing when she disappeared. Sure enough. The medical examiner soon identified the remains as Taylor beale based on dental records. One thing about this girl. That's helping out the police. There she goes out to our family's property. She doesn't know what she's GonNa find. They've they've find Taylor she that has thing about the relationship she had with this person. And how that possibly could have been her that'd be very traumatic experience. There are several theories as to why this area may have been chosen for the the dump site. The seem a little odd. Who knows what was going on in the mind of the person who placed her there so there. There's one theory that I do find this interesting. I don't think it has anything really to do with the case. But there's a thought that maybe Ben Fawley thought if he put her on errands family's property that maybe it would get confusing to investigators in Aaron. Could somehow be involved in Taylor's disappearance possibly we. We know he lies about everything. I think what likely happened is this is just unfortunately a place of popped into his mind when he thought of like we said earlier. Hey I got something. I don't want anybody to ever find and he thought this was a good place to put it well. They're going to go back with this information. This is basically now the cops have a loaded gun that they component him and he's going to start confessing to what he claims happened that night. Yeah and one thing that they will be equipped with when they go in to talk with. Fawley is they took some soil samples from the undercarriage of Taylor's vehicle and they were able to match those two soil samples taken from the area where the body was found so they are able to piece a lot of this together before they even talked to them. They where she was found. They have a general idea what happened to her being that she was either abducted or killed and then transported in her own vehicle out to that location and then we know the vehicle came back to the vcu campus area and was was placed there now or died in a manner that did not leave visible marks on her body so they were unable to determine the exact cause of death. There was no broken bones or obvious signs of death. Now Mind you. She rather decomposed at this time. Folly continued to deny that he had anything to do with this. But that's not going to last very long captain just like you pointed out because he will he will offer up some kind of confession well of sorts and this was against the recommendation of his attorney folly told investigators that on the night of September fifth. He and Taylor had driven out to a beach in the Mathews County area to Hook Up. He said he was very drunk and high at the time and was off his meds the two engaged in what he called rough sex and he said Taylor accidentally died according to him. The two had played a sex game and it was all Taylor's idea she wanted to try Roddick But backfired and when she died he panicked and dumped her body in that ravine although he tried to spin this off as some type of accident folly himself may have made mention of what he planned to do to Taylor in one journal entry by Skulls Sixty Seven and eight journal subtitled playing with fire. The trash of a crazy ex-con he wrote about his sexual conquests with partners referred to by their initials like an e. He also talked about someone with the initials. T and said that there was something he still wanted to try with her. This was before Taylor died. Taylor's mother was quick to dispute follies version of the events. Of course she says. Let's be clear. Ben Fawley murdered my daughter. She said in a news conference. His claim that it was accidental is just one more perversion of the truth and his changing web of allies that he claims that there they went out to this location. They're trying to hook up there in the back seat of the car that he was drunk in high in an office medication all that stuff they were trying to put a bag over her head during sex. That wasn't really working. 'cause she wanted a pass out this what he's claiming and so then. He took the bag off her head but then put it around her nose and mouth now once she stopped breathing. Here's a strange thing. As during his confession he doesn't dump the body that night doesn't he doesn't just go all. I got to get rid of her and take the car back. He claims that he comes back to Vcu with her body in the back seat and and that the cars parked there for a day or so then he drives back out to that. Same location than than than dumpster there But again this guy will lie about everything. Yeah and as you pointed out earlier. His story changes win. It needs to. He has an excuse. He has a story. He has an alibi until boom. You present them with facts with truthful evidence and facts that you know to be true and then he says well. Here's a different story for you. Bobby here's the thing. Though is he already has more and more charges. That are mounting against him. Yeah and what's difficult? Though for the Prosecution for the state captain is that we do have this while it does not seem likely it is a plausible defense of this was an accident and maybe he shouldn't be charged with murder. We also have the problem that we really have very little forensic evidence in this case at all So it's going to take a good amount of time. In fact it was not until January. Seventeenth of two thousand and six then a grand jury handed down an indictment of folly. This was for first degree murder. I would love. I would love to try this case. Once the Grand jury was told it was explained that the medical examiner could not have identified an exact cause of death because of the decomposition. Then we have an indictment that was amended to second degree murder. The death penalty obviously going to be off the table at this point now despite holes in their case prosecutors went full steam ahead preparing for a trial working with investigators. Trying build a circumstantial case to prove that Taylor was not the initiator of this so called sex game that she was not bondage or erotic fixation or really would not have consented to any of this crap and that that folly killed her and probably deliberately killed her. It was not an accident by any stretch of the imagination on his defense team saying well she was she wanted to try this because he had tons of pornography on his computer and showed her some different things and choose like. Aw like to try that yeah. That's what he claims but but it doesn't matter I mean the the idea that that Anybody female or male would be on trial for wanting to try something sexually sh. That's her right to that. Doesn't equal being murdered right? You know so. It doesn't matter how you slice. It doesn't matter if it was his idea or her idea. That does that should never equal murder. So what we have here. Captain is in August of two thousand six. The murder trial is about to begin. But what we get I man I so love this. We get a gift for the prosecution because folly opens his big mouth. That's right folly. Made the mistake of talking in his defense attorneys. Got Wind of this and a jailhouse conversation with an officer folly describing on set it up a little bit better because he is coming back to his cell. After after this There was a meeting And and basically this. This web allies that he's been casting. He claims that it's the ultimate chess. Move Right he says he's playing a chess game and really this story that he came up about Taylor's accidental. Death was really just that just a story designed to clear him to take the heat off of him. Explain away what happened. But it's not what actually happened and then we have a little bit more. Holy Okay because you you know this better than me. This is the part. That's kind of confused me because he makes a mission to This officer and then officer. Let's the defense team. No now they can't they can't represent that idea because they know it's a lie that right. No I think the thought here is. We have people that are going to testify that he was lying about the story right and and then we have this weird thing where he's writing letters from jail to a female friend. The prosecution gets a hold of these letters. They did not help follies case. I don't know exactly what was in these letters. But these were mentioned during this portion of the story. And what this leads to is by August ninth. We have folly consulting with his attorneys and they decide that folly should take an Alfred play for second degree murder and exchange for prosecutors dropping the child pornography charges out at the plea proceedings prosecutors and defense attorneys. Were able to present their cases to the judge whose job it is then to determine whether there was enough evidence to warrant folly taking such a plea the confession. His tapes of his confession or so-called confession were played in court and later transcripts were released to the media. More details about this confession came out and you went through quite a bit of that when you were telling us about what happened. One thing I've found weird was its sites that Taylor wanted to play a game that she called drunk monkey and again. It's it's almost. It seems a little silly to go through this confession when we know so much of it is just completely false and we can. We can say that based off of his plea off of his later plea where he accepts that he's going to be convicted of this. Yeah I mean and again I have some questions but I don't think it matters like what she alive when they went out to this location. I don't know did he. Did he bring did he? Actually bring the body back to bring Taylor back You know I don't think it matters. I think at the end of the day no matter what he states everything else again. He can still say he's still saying in prison. I'm not the cause of her death. She wanted to try something. It was an accident while we know that you told people. Hey I'm a genius. I came up with this excuse but everything else points to murder right this this happens. She blacks out. She stops breathing. You don't call nine one one. You then claim that you transport her body back to camp campus. Not Telling Anybody Die. Equals murder you then changed license plates. Multiple Times on that car that equals murder. You then lie to the cops about what happened. That equals murder. You then lie to everybody and tell her family almost braggadocious way while we hooked up that night. No you did it. You probably raped her. That equals murder you then constantly lie about everything and all these twists and turns and take not only the please but the family members of your victim on this wild ride. All that stuff equals murder and then you put her out in the middle of nowhere and her in. This is what her mom says for her body to be eaten by animals and bugs and insects. 'cause you don't have respect for human life you have respect for this young lady. This was not your friend because all that stuff equals murder while and unfortunately it seems like four Ben Fawley well for those around him anyway that he was ramping up to something like this probably for quite some time. Now I don't have those all those letters that he wrote to his friend while he's in jail but when hold on. First Ladies get better friends you who whose who. Who's the person communicating with this fuck? You know well. We do have a portion of one of those letters and this is going to be. What really is going to seal the deal here. And they read this allowed in the The plea proceedings. I believe that all of them all of these letters were read but the one that made its way to the media is this and this is directly from follies written letter to his friend. He says quote people don't like me they never do as a child. I had no friends. I was a bother in the way a problem so I spent most of my life alone. I never liked the thoughts in my head. People are right. Something's wrong with me. All the thoughts of killing and death in my head and now it's true. I've killed someone. These are his own words at the conclusion of the Alford Plea Hearing Judge William Shaw. The third found that there was substantial evidence that folly was guilty of murdering Taylor. Beal he sends folly to forty years with ten years suspended. Folly would serve thirty years. Taylor Beales case is famous because it is one of the first to be solved using the victims social media. Police were able to narrow down the suspect list very quickly because of her postings online Taylor funeral was held the day after her eighteenth birthday. Benjamin Fawley is scheduled to be released on November fourteenth. Two Thousand and thirty one. Let's just too soon. Janet Taylor's mother has published a book called Love. You more Taylor beale story and has become an outspoken advocate for victims. Taylor's friend Aaron Kraybill received a twenty thousand dollar reward for her assistance in locating Taylor with some of the reward money. She established a fund for Women in crisis. In honor of Taylor Bill. All right. Thanks for joining us here in the garage. Nick do we have any recommended reading. Yes we do my fine captain. This week we are recommending without a prayer by Susan. Ashland this is without a prayer the death of Lucas Leonard and how one church became a cult. You'll want to pick up this book because this is a very tragic and weird case and if you pick up without a prayer you're gonNA find out the how but also the why and you don't have to write that title down right now you can just go to true crime garage dot Com and. Click on the recommended page and we will have that title amongst others right there for you and make sure you sign up on our mailing list while you're at the website true crime garage dot com and until next week. Why don't you be good? Be Kind and please don't let
LOST: Down the Hatch | Season 2, Episode 22: Three Minutes
"Move Up. That could alone in their. Own Hey? Good to see you, too. Oh, you're right. Yeah, it's. Fine. Well. Who? ANNALISA living. On Hilton, what happened to them? They murdered. Away return to play away analyst. Gone A while now he's back. Back into style. Animated. Finale on as long as. Well! Only three. Surprise to me as we go down, the hats about these do episodes. Did you three minutes? I've just got born to run. I think is the equivalent of getting recruited here. I thought getting deejay. Don The equivalent of getting Rick I think we call that drink role during cold, yeah! I don't know I give a call. This run rolled or something. It's a good runner. It's now officially a good runner here on the down to. Run around the down the hats podcast that I guess every penultimate episode recap will now have to begin with born to run. We'll also alternate back and forth each season. Who has to do a born around? That makes sense though given that we figured out last time born to run came about that like Eber kits anatomy morale are essentially the set guys right like they broke basically every penultimate episode, and so I think it makes sense. To turn parodies as well. Yeah, actually I contact them since once upon a time came off the air. They've been a little. Bit a little. Loosen their time, so they said all right. Let's put together and boys. If this goes well, you've got four more as kind of your to know that they're going to get some steady work from us here on down, the hatch lost rewatch podcasts where we're talking about every single up, so lost all the way through. We are at the penultimate episode of season, two three minutes. The Michael Dawson flashback. This this guy is I. Don't know if he was born to run. But he was definitely. Some people are going to be the opposite of born. Thanks to Mike I. Don't know I don't know where I was going with it. What I was GONNA say. I think he was born to run, but Tom Friendly was born to throw and. Michael Does Not run. No, he does not. He does not all right. We are talking about three minutes the last couple of weeks. We have been dealing with the return of Michael. Dawson Michael killed. Analysts Killed Libby last week on her. We didn't get a ton of Michael. Did you get a ton of Michael Content this week? We get a ton of Michael Content. And we find out that Michael has been compromised, and this is going to be the story of why and if we've been a little light on discussing Michael's turn. We are going to be pretty heavy on it this week. I think we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA go all in on it and I'm really excited for this one. I think that this is going to be a really really riveting conversation. Agreed I think that this might be the most polarizing seizing episode covered maybe outside of Dave I feel like Dave had a lot of the defenders and and vehement offenders I guess it was and three minutes isn't a similar camp in that you know you have some people may be one of us on this podcast may be me. Who thinks this is fine, maybe not such a great episode, and we have other people like the Great Fizi. Fizi who says this might be the best penultimate episode and Lost History, so the spectrum is very. This is a very interesting episode in a number of ways when it aired and I think even watching it on a watch, especially knowing what we know of the others, it really gives a very interesting shade as to like what lost was at that moment, and how it's going to pivot into what season three's, which is essentially a season. So I love three minutes I, think this is a great episode and I love Harold Perrineau and I think that his turn. Michael in this episode is heartbreaking. I think there's a few weaker spots around the edges that prevents us from being an elite episode for me. I think it's a really great episode of Lost It's obviously not as good as greatest hits, which is the best penultimate episode of Lost Four? Sure I would I would argue. Argue I again I'm the the season four stand on the podcast. I would also maybe put cabin fever about this. As well I have a soft spot I. The argument I could see the argument but I do think that getting the episode that really contextualising explains why Michael is acting the way that he is, and it doesn't work for everybody. It really works for me. I, think that that with wall towards the end of the episode. It's not three minutes in length. It's like a minute twelve is. A Better I mean. It's because like this clues like all right. We let them stay here for three minutes to tell them everything about the others. We gotTA GET OUTTA here. I think it is, it is so wrenching that for me it. It does not justify. Michael's actions, but it explains them and I think you really needed that and I think the episode accomplishes that in a brilliant way I think really sets the deck for the finale and brilliant way as well. What is this question mark as well? I think question mark in three minutes work hand in hand to to get us ready for live together. Die Alone, so we're GONNA. Talk about all that we're going to get into everything. We've got your feedback to get through. Of course you could send. That are way down the hatchet post show recaps dot. Dot Com. You can also tweet at US around. Howard Mike is at a Mike Bloom type before we move forth into the jungle, we want to thank our sponsors for this episode of down the Hatch our friends over at Amazon and their new podcast. Prime video presents obviously. We're here talking about lost every week, but when we are not on the island, Mike and I are both is in tons of other TV shows binging much as we can, including entire seasons of TV produced by Amazon originals. If you're a fan of Amazon's original programming like upload. Upload the poise hunters and more, and that's great, but you're only getting half the story. If you're stopping there, because now has prime video presents a new podcast with in depth interviews with award, winning actors creators, as they revealed the real life, inspirations and experiences behind your favorite Amazon prime shows. You can subscribe now for free wherever you listen, and if you sit through this podcast all the way to the very end, you can get a taste of prime video presents for yourself. We've a teaser for the PODCAST. So make sure you're listening all the way. Way through the end of down the hatch this week to check out what Amazon's cooking up on prime video presents once again. That's Brian Video presents. It's available now, and it's podcast produced by Amazon studios at will media and Tim cash with that said, let's go forth into the jungle Mike Three minutes directed by Stephen Williams written by your boys etiquettes this an Adam. Horowitz originally aired made seventeen, two, thousand six, and it is a Michael Dawson flashback extravaganza the third episode this season in the third episode overall that takes place with flashbacks on the island. Yes and I guess this is probably the most I don't know the least amount of time between flashbacks and main storylines right because I think Clare's gap was longer. I think we're only going back thirteen days and this though I. Don't know a lot of interesting production elements in this episode and one of them is I. Don't know the typography for or the. License on the font that they usually use for the flashback. Lower thirds was just. Gone that week, but starting right here from the White Texas says thirteen days ago on the bottom of the screen. It has a different font, and it's a little wheels. If they don't normally do like flashback font. I mean it's different than the other forty eight days. Sure but I think that that's like messing around with the individuality. And I think the thing with the other forty eight days is that's being told chronologically. This is still flashing back and I don't have a good enough memory for how they play with this in the Brig. which is I think probably the closest comparison to this episode is the Brig the John Locke episode in season three. We'll have to take note if we can remember. Mike we gotta do some side-by-side Font analysis when when we get rig and season three 'cause. That's another episode where the flashbacks are literally. Going back to a few days earlier, telling the side of John Locke story that we had not seen yet, both in the case of the other forty eight days and maternity leave with they're going for creatively is is worth expressing differently than they express things here in three minutes. Yeah but that feels like. It's a lack of consistency with your other episode like I don't want to be like. Wow, it's a different fund so therefore. It's a different mechanic. It just feels to me like. 'cause I feel there are other times when we've done this before, and we've used a similar type of I. Don't mean to Harp I walk on. All of your issues with three minutes stem from the choice. Own Right. Okay, we'll get there. There's like there's definitely a thing about three minutes. That reminds me of Adrift. Very! I'm to the point where they use a line. Yeah, for trip which I appreciate that I think that's great. That's great callback. That that I enjoy very very much the aspect of three minutes that I. Don't love as much is specifically one scene and it is specifically. The reverse side of the hunting party stuff. I'm. I really am not even like to a certain extent. We see some stuff here as we open the episode, but I really liked the idea of the flashbacks, but I agree that I think the raw chaman elements of it all like we spent three episodes doing that already. I don't need to end the season with this. Is Michael Side of things? especially as you mentioned the Hunting Party, which we'll get to it, it doesn't bring too much more new information, maybe unlike this same where we see Michael a conversation with Walt. Reverse angle stuff really needs to be pushing things forward. If it's GonNa work for me anyway, and Adrift is a great example of where that really doesn't work that well for me, and it's why it's one of the bottom, ranked episodes, not just of season two, but of lost so far for us on. The stuff that's great about three minutes elevates at tasks that problem, but that problem is definitely present here I think. In this burst seen to a certain degree, but certainly in the scene that mirrors the hunting party is just not my favorite I think it's like really dare to like push that Alex mystery a little bit more forward. It's just it's fine. It's cute dot hot. Is that seen? Get into the episode. We begin with the weird flashback font thirteen days ago. And we're getting the reverse side of Michael with with lock asking about the guns and he's hushed tones, and like hey, why are we whispering? into. That and I love Michael's on the fly. Excuse. We're already seeing on the fly decision. Make Oh. Yeah Jacks taking a nap. which was if you compared to the hunting? Party Jack Wakes Up to find that John has been locked out judge. Why does Michael I mean obviously like Michael's a little frantic right now I think he has the plan to go, but he hasn't talked with. Walt yet. Obviously has to wear to go. Why is he looking at? Mr Peixe Watch. What is it about time at this point that is like how he must think that there's like a specific time of day that he is able to communicate with. Walt would be my bet. That would make sense. What maybe doesn't make sense is? Is this wall actually communicating with him? I know that there's a lot of debate about that still. If so I mean. I. Don't know, do you? Do you ever strong opinion on this one way or the other right I think we decide on the what dad of it all that we thought that this would be more interesting and probably makes more sense if it's maybe not like Ben Outright, but maybe like I duNno, you're friendly. You're pick it. How even if you're your clue is the one typing whoever it is is has like the fastest typing I've ever see because there's weird keyboard stuff going on here. Here, too, you're right where he's like betting on the keyboard, and there's a hell of a delay from Michael's Ed. And then we'll just sends like an entire like it's like when you're texting with somebody and they an entire three-paragraph thought bubble Iran response and you're like okay, how do I? How do I respond to that? I also say Michael. Maybe this shows like his age very proper typist. You know like using the dashes and using like the proper punctuation and everything shows the discrepancies between. That? He's just typing. Gobbledygook on. The person is working. Is this work egg Venite, take it simply like a little bit of a boomer versus millennial approach. Yeah, do you use you or the value when you're typing? that. That's really fine. So he's. He's GonNa. Talk. He's going to knock out lock. He's going to talk. With with should say, he knocks out lock after he spills over bunch of bullets. Michael Scott this whole thing down. He has the whole the whole routine ready to go. He's like he's like having regale l phoning on a on a pantry right now, which then begs the question? Could you have just done that to analysts? The could have just. Now, who knows? No and then he still has to figure out how he's going. Get Jack and all the whole thing is dicey, Stacey. It's obviously it's obvious. Obviously not great. So. He's GonNa. He's texting with walk. Where do I meet you? Where do I pick you? He's north these. There's this huge rock with a big hole hoping. I didn't realize that the person who wrote the series Bible. Entries was typing out Walter. Responses because they just love Ranya. You said North North Wear. One and my favorite is I'm ready coming now. Coming now so Michael's going to go. We're going to get the continuation of the hunting party scene so he's GonNa. He's GonNa have jacket gun. Point to fathers right? No one gets to tell me what to do. We Lost Jack Up and we cut back to today where Michael was outside of the hatch, got piece of paper in his hands, and he's setting it on fire. He's watching it for. This was burned to run. As. He is burning this piece of paper. Which of course we know has a four names on it, and you could see them. You can see him if you know what to look for A. Little for those that were inpatient losses at the time like I want to find out what the four names are. Now you could very easily screen shot at and just reverse the names, and you know who for our. That'd be a terrible way to watch this on the first blush. Just watch the episode. Yeah just like just wait like our hopefully. If you're showing this to someone for the first time, like get their hands away from the remote when they're tempted to posit the smell and be like it'll be answered in this episode I know that's not the thing that happens with the loss usually, but this will indeed be typically not all right, so Michael's burning the piece of paper, Jackson out. What are you doing out here? I'm just get some air stop. Plastic me, man. Jackson say come on in come inside. We should talk. He says and we're going to get. War Council meeting basically and we're wasn't into this because they think in a lot of ways. This sound I think encapsulates the tone of the episode and a really great way. How many rifles and pistols eleven told. said. I'd say case you forgot took five of them right office. How long would it take us to get to their camp? We leave now. Move fast middle of the night tomorrow. They have no idea. I know where they are. They will be expecting us, so we get the guns and we go right now. Justify of no, no five's not enough. You said there's at least twenty of them. They've got our guns and we're not even sure if what you saw I know what I saw. We'll take two people that he was coming. Not taking a damn army across the island, Jackal. The best place to be making decisions for all of us right now. Son Check. Seeing live, you're dead. Even buried yet. Menial take libby okay. Course Sawyer. Should stay here. Very them tonight. And figure next. Own. Home. All right so I. What, what you're not getting if you haven't watched, the episode is that it ends with Michael Staring at the pool blood from. Beyond the ground. And, he'll clean that up soon so luckily. Maybe he's more so thinking. Do I put. Now Yeah then. How do I do that club? Soda and Salt. No I love that scene? Because I think it really speaks to the tension that exists within this episode. Michael's job is not yet done he now he's. He's gotten out of jail. He has killed two people in the process. He also now needs to convince bore people to trek with him across the island and. Basically fall into the trap of the. But that urgency that's behind that because the episode is going to express, why feels so urgent to Michael is in a head on collision with the emotionality surrounding the deaths of Ana Lucia and especially Libby, as it pertains to Hurley. And it's also really summoning US summoning us down deep into the depths of hell that the hatch represents that there's no blood on the floor that Michael is literally going to be on the ground of this place that we have described in the writers. Conceptualized as representation of hell reflecting you at your worst in the terrible things that you might be willing to do. Or you might be. Susceptible to succumbing to on this island and in your life. In, this way that is both going to literally evoke hell in the neck. Sound that we're going to get into and just a few minutes that we could talk about that more there, but also I think this way where constantly throughout the episode, Michael is having to bounce between maintaining some facade and the facade like literally vomiting out of him. And I think this I seen this. I sound that we're listening to I think really represents that good way. Well that being said I think it's a great representative. I agree because they're too key core tenants here, right? It's his loyalty to these people that he crashed on an island with and his loyalty ultimately to his son. I think we're this episode fails a bit more for me is that it feels like we're just taking the scene and repeating it again and again particularly like every Michael. Jackson feels like that exchange of Jack Questioning whether michaels in the right head space and then Michael Replying. You GotTa Son Jack which. But he will do it another time line. We'll save that for a few seasons from now when Michael is long gone, but I like this seen as a sequel also to the end of question mark when we have Lipstadt clearly. Hurley sort of like emotional through line is there. He is just serious at this point just like angry at the world. An angry at whoever he thinks did this to her I will also say though Michael. We'll talk about maybe his lying techniques later on this episode he got Super Lucky with the people who wound up in. Yes, right yes. Very easy strategy okay. Let's just keep it between the five of us. That were here right now. Nobody else needs to now like if another person happened to be there than it might have been all thrown asunder again. We're not sure what would have happened. Had any additional parties come with Michael and these four, but he has like a full proof strategy at the. You know what and I know. We're fast forwarding here. So the scene at the end of the episode with Mike. Won Miss Clue after the three minutes. Miss Clue is going to say a Michael. We need you to do something else. After you released, are man and Michael's hysterical needs to say whatever you want and she's going to say. You have to bring four people only these four people just them. If you don't bring all the people on our list, you'll never see walt again that phrasing Mike. Does that mean he can only bring those four peephole, or he just needs to make sure that those people are there. Because if those people are, there can't be like all right, let's all go. Yeah, Hey, listen I held a my under the bargain. These people are here. It's just four or four. Isn't that loophole? I would imagine so, but it's also again. It's all so strange considering that. You have to bring these four, but one person's purpose is to immediately get cut loose and run back to everyone saying what happened. You could very easily like get everyone kidnapped the three Jack and Kate, and be like everyone you see the power of us. You see what we can do by Michael by everyone. We're going like it's a we'll talk next episode. I think about like the others true motives. It gets reflected in this episode. Be I do wonder if this was like. Michael's going to bargain a bit for the boat right later Rod. Do you think he could've negotiated the Morrison like Horo? Out In this I don't know how I'm going to get Joe. Can I clarify? What do you mean? Literally? I can only have those four people with me or can that be like four out of twelve people that I bring? Because I think I can sell that easier. especially with the way that the others are only going to have hurley, there is an ambassador as a messenger to send back. There probably was a little bit more weight for wiggle room in that then then. Maybe Michael think could Michael have disguise somebody's. Shaved Jin's head and said this is John. Says that's true, actually Genoa. If Jin sprained his hair, he could say that it was. Really funny. This sawyer totally Sawyer. has like Ana Lucia's Kate. Exactly just just grab some three grand free. That are extended. Him Up. have been the move that would have been the move for sure yeah Michael. Screws this up on a lot of levels and I just. Hit the nail. Of exactly how also probably a missed opportunity for Michael is? He could've turned these four people into plants. Pack them in his backpack, in. That's a lot easier to bring together. Consistently like convince them to. Why did Michael instead of shooting analysts libby? Why didn't he just turn them into plants? that's a good deal like I found these players they. It's sort of like a black mirror. Ask Horror Story where they're trapped. Reverend the corner of the hatch for the next few episodes until it explodes and. Silently scream as their murderer to get them in plants turn Henry into a plant. SCOOP THEM UP. Go back to the others all right well. Here's what about the other four I'll go back and get them, and then he goes back and turns them into plants as well and brings them to. I wonder if then the others would be like you're not going anywhere. We're studying you like walt out of room to one I have thoughts about we're. We're about that all right, so let's keep going. Let's try and be more serious than ridiculous plant theories, or maybe not I don't know we'll see where it goes. Michael is surrounded by plants thirteen days earlier when he is running through the jungle, a software drink of water, checking his compass. He was this. This is now the site lock compass right. Don't think so. He comes up upon. A man who's Peon? the fifth picket pick the official introduction of big a-hole energy. Himself Danny Pickett. Who's going to be one of the? Ben Is obviously the big big bad of season three, but I would say one of the little. Of season. I hate this guy This is Danny Pickett. Love the actors, performance. He's great. Uncle Jack on breaking bad, even though that guy was terrible, person as well. Disguised? At playing very very bad. In particularly comes across sort of as a little bit of a prankster. In this, absolutely you in the funny pages, but I can't like. I can't look at pick it without the context of everything else, and he's just a head to toes, heads, these and Toews Douche. This guy and also. You hear when he's peeing. Did you hear him like zipping up his fly? Those those are either pants have zippers on them because it doesn't look like they do. I wonder if they consulted with Dharma cost him facility and look. I know we have to act like hillbillies, but we're not sad. Okay like give them sort of Urban Mississippi for. At least Zipper but I also I also feel like pick. It doesn't become that much of a true blue a hole until the glass ballerina. Dies I can't remember 'cause we obviously do see him in a tale of two cities, but I can't remember if he goes full a whole until that moment when he just goes these Dorothy, he's still not cool to Sawyer. But then when colleen dies, it's over, you know. He loses his chill. Gone are so close to finding out more about these other. We're referring to them by the colleen. Yeah. We're getting. We're getting right up to it so there. He is Michael is going to have him at gun. Point and it's like Oh. It's Waltz Dad. And then Mr friendly shows up, and there's big skull. A huge huge Scott because Mr Privileges. Hands Right up behind Michael my God. We talked about this so much and God I forget so first friendliest just a bad ass episode like completely you know understandably justifying why, for awhile despite Ben saying the guy with the beard, he's not the leader like he did very much comes across it from what we're seeing like. He easily wrestles the gun out of Michael's heads. He's the one who throws the Bolas, and and you know takes Michael Down by the ankles. He has to have the best arm of like anybody in the. Right leg between the football throwing in this the way we'll say it's a fun little bit of like production Tomfoolery. Didn't trust NCA gains throwing abilities. They all you see, is just him swinging the Bulla and then it cuts to Michael falling out of frame. It's like we'll do. We'll have the viewers put together the mental math instead of having to time out shot, Michael indeed gets his legs tied up by a pair of is thrown by Tom I wanNA. I WANNA be a fly on the wall for like the others throwing training program, because we s and Ethan like they're very good at this good skill of there's. Well I wonder if like you can only spend so much time, right? There's only so many entertainment options available to you. These are the guys unlike the Dharma. DART leaderboard and they're like all right. Let's let's these guys are marksman. Let's sort of at the end of season three. How they? They pick their own marksman from the eight fifteen. Others have special. That only works. If you're then saying that in the electric darts that are going to be coming up next week in live together die loan them rouses starts at. All Mr, friendly and the jungle I I can imagine how. Bad. To to to that's great everything just like rapid fire, or he made me the teacher. He's the. He's the professor of this art. But no, he he's going to. He's going to be able to. Yeah too bad. We didn't have tom friendly flashback, but I'm pretty sure would be like that movie rookie of the oil where he rose arm, and just like whipping things super fast, and then got recruited by Dharma. Maybe he is the rookie of the year. All time travel man, it's possible. I, I think it's possible all right so Michael has been captured by the rookie of the year in the rest of the others the rest of the squad. And we're going to get some continuation of that in a little bit. I go back to the hatch. Where Michael's all alone because Jack Kate Sawyer and Hurley. The people on his list have all vanished, and they are bringing the bodies of Anna and libby down to the beach, and in the meanwhile Michael is here in the hatch, washing up blood and I mentioned Hell before well Hell, hath, no fury like a dog, waiting for you in hell as As mentioned in this story for Mr, Echo, who shows up after? To give Michael. I don't know going to see some encouragement more like hey. I, basically know what you did and let me just Reflect back onto you, so here's the scene. Hello. Commitment. I left my shoes outside. They will. Find. No. Your pre. Yes. You, believe in Hell. For breach time served in a small parish in England. Every Sunday after mass. I was a young boy waiting. And then one day the boy confessed to me that he had detainees dog to death with a shovel. Don't pretend his baby sister on the cheek. And he needed to protect. And wanted to know what would go to have. Totally. That good. As long as he was signing. But, the boy did not care about forgiveness. It was only afraid that if it did go to him. That dunk would be there with. Yosso recco totally knows Michael Killed and libby right. and I wonder like what I. was from the five minutes he spent in the hatch last episode, because remember like they found Michael and they found analysts and Libya Echo Lake takes look like all right. We're GONNA go into the jungle so. This dude has you know observation and deduction skills that rival sherlock, Holmes and being able to just put everything immediately together, but I'd have to imagine so. He's been so much time. His career was defined by killing people before he was. Not Forced into being a priest, but went on to become a priest went on to take on Yemenis livelihood his own. So he's been around this stuff for a long time. He has seen various versions, and has participated in various versions of Muda and has probably seen a few people kill their first person before so that he. Senses, Michael's body language is pretty familiar would be my bet. Yeah, and there's also a couple moments been like I think he's very strategic when he looks Michael on the I, and when he doesn't almost like he's checking into, be like. How does he respond to this story? This is a very very understated part of the episode, but one of my favorite parts of this episode Josh might be how Echo behaves post question mark where he is I mean if we're talking about breaking bad. Imbuing himself with the behaviors of Jack and Locke in the hatch to become. It's sort of like designated. Representative, albeit for a short amount of time, the first thing I noticed was him walking in saying that he took his shoes off before coming into the hatch. Because we know that's what locked did for he went into the hatch, and later on. We're going to have ECHO. Get A ticket visit to the feelings wall and have his cross. Be attracted too much like Jack Ski did so I do think that's an interesting for lack of a better term. Echo that the way these two men discovered the hatch. We talk a lot about how we. We have the polar opposites of science man of faith, and how echo was somebody who was always trying to like straddle the middle ground from that perspective. I think that's a great representative of the fact that he's able to take on the qualities of both these guys, and how they interact with the hatch, and again his tenure as hatch operator is going to be super short, but I find the behaviour skiing gauges in can't be coincidental I think what Echo says to Michael here about about the boy and the dog shovel, boy and the dog. The boy, it's less about the guilt. He feels more the fear. He feels about one day having to reckon with what he did that. If he were to go to hell, he would have to. He would have to meet the kids like to meet the dog. I think in the in the in the moralistic theological universe that lost inhabits where we know that there are some semblance of afterlife whether it is like the the lobby of the good place in your waiting to move on to wherever we don't know what that place. Place is or the ghost who still linger on the island. Which is what Michael is going to become. That is sort of almost like in its own way. self-fulfilling help perhaps of like Michael, doesn't WanNa move on because he cannot. He's too afraid to base Libyan Anna Lucienne to the point where the last time we see. Michael on the show in season six. Ask Ghost. What a ridiculous sentence is that he is? He is going to tell Hurley like you see libby. Tell her I'm sorry. He can't even confront that himself yet. So Michael knows he's damned at this point, think echoes of like parroting back to Michael Michael is already feeling, and that is reflected very much in the next scene. Z. If Michael bursting out of the hatch into the jungle and dry heaving, because he's just overwhelmed with what he's done already. or he just is like wow. I was cleaning up blood that is. That's it. I don't know I. Really don't know if it's if it's like a guilt. Puke if it's like an overwhelming, because obviously people have a variety of reasons for puking. Going back to the point. You made about because I do think it's so interesting that Michael's season. Four storyline is ultimately going to be about with him. Being haunted by the mistakes he made much like. Like shuffleboard as you put him so I guess the question is I. Do wonder if if Darlington came up with that idea completely off the fly, and it happened to coincide with this scene, or if they watch, the seed came back a year later. We want to bring Mike Lynn for season four, and this would be a good way. Maybe I don't know. But I do think it's fascinating to me it it reeks of guilt. I think Michael Reeks of guilt throughout the entire I, mean he now he wreaks. Wreaks Bloody reeks of guilt I don't think this is a guy who is in any sense lavishing what he did I think this is a guy who saw an opening, took it, and to some extent, like immediately regrets it, but has to fully commit to it now. Yeah, it's one of these things like. He dug a hole for himself, and he just has to keep digging to a certain point, because it feels like he'll finally hit that buried treasure in a manner of speaking and the minute he tries to climb out of that hole then he's going to face trouble like if you feels as long as he keeps facing forward and looking ahead to the immediate future that will sort of blind emotional effects of what he did, and that sort of informs his. Opium bordering on annoying sometimes insistence as to it's gotta be these four people. I can't be making the decisions Jack, not you. You may be the leader, but it's my. Wife. I don't care how I want now. He's breaking at this point. You know. Oh, he's got. He's he's. He's breaking at this point. I think that he is he's. He's maintained this lie about what happened to Anna in Libya for probably something like twelve hours at this point. And that is already like too long to sustain this lie. It's just too dark. It's too awful. This isn't who he is fundamentally. It's what he's chosen to do. And it's not really battle with his life and his his own ethical code I think, and so it's causing him to like be suffocating in the magnitude of what he's done. But this is what he's been. This is what he's been driven to do. this is what he's been driven to do as far as. You want to see your son and he now has proof positive that his son is alive after a very traumatic ordeal, this is this is how you get him, so he's doubling down Jack's GonNa show up. This is when Michael is gonNA. Also double down. It's gotta be the way I said you don't get to decide this. It's my son. It's my call I'm Mike Call. and. He says it's gotTa be you. It's gotta be. It's gotta be Kate. Sawyer Hurley. Anyone else. We're putting walt endanger in. It's the way it has to be. Subjects is and that's the way it will be. Jack? Really should have known something was up. Ending off on this and seemingly without any irony without any plan for subterfuge until site comes up to him, is in my opinion, a very bad look on Dr Jack. Yeah. This is a huge lapse in judgment for somebody who's like one of his core tenets has been sort of being of little faith to a certain extent. He's always been the skeptic whether it's something based on the island or something based with the People Jack just putting and look. Maybe he himself is clouded by the emotions that Michael must surely be undergoing. He doesn't even know the half of it considering that Michael, you know live. He doesn't believe that Michael Saw Walt at this time, but for Michael to essentially make like a regard him Nicholas list of demands injectable of this we'll be able to. Comply to all your demands Sir without thinking about like. Wow, the squeaky wheel is really aiming for the grease fire. I think something may be happening. It definitely is. When you're sure and I think at the very least like he could be like art. Then that's the way it will be. Five minutes later talked. Decide. Hey, so I think. Michael really wants to be this crew. Could you just like us in the jungle with a small army of peeps? That'd be great, yeah, anything and then something. Yeah exactly again it can be us four, but also be like a plus three tailing mind. Kate was not part of the list that would be perfect for her. Considering what she did the Hunting Party as we're GONNA find out all right so back at the Beach Charlie is going to reunite with Clare an errand for the first time in a while, and he's you know trying to make small talk. Where's that go were building a church Ohioan hair and what's going on what's going on? What's up? China's like? Oh, well I've got this pneumatic injector that I want to give you and the baby. It's like Oh amazing. Don't really tested on myself. There's the bureau it. It turns into a monster. It's from the power. It's the pneumatic injector to build with vaccine from the PAO says he's tested it on. Himself Mike thrown out of wild theory. This is why Charlie Eventually Charlie. Charlie is eventually because he's injecting himself with this pneumatic injectors that we've only seen desmond also use desmond and Charlie or now psychically linked this weird vaccine thing that they're injecting into their beans, and it's giving desmond all these weird visions of Charlie dying. That aren't actually going to come to pass. He's just hallucinating about this. Other guy who's on the shared drug and Charlie never had to die. He only because Charlie made a bad choice to inject himself with the pneumatic injector. Interesting so you, so it's basically sort of yeah like a shared. And Charlie. And Desmond. With a very serious face, believe this theory. It's think that's interesting. It would be tragic. I mean we'll talk and season three about. Maybe someone doesn't. Predictions don't necessarily come true. Especially when it comes to the decisions that Charlie's makes, but that would be interesting I mean. We're GONNA see the connection between the two of them and yeah to this point. They're the only two characters that we've seen actually used this placebo vaccine. Though I don't know maybe just Aaron. Get linked if he indeed start using the vaccine. Maybe maybe that's why says I sire. The helicopter. You're going to die. All sorts of Weird Shit, that's not real. Yeah so I will say that you know the Charlie storyline from from like an individual. Charlie perspective I m okay with I. Think we'll talk about scene later on that like really helps me reconcile with essentially charlie throughout the latter half of this season but I'm really not a fan of the Clare. Stuff specifically. I'm not a fan of Clare. Taking Charlie back I'll be outright with it. Considering that yes, it's been ten episodes, but if you're talking about island time and considering what Charlie did to her, she has all the patience in the world for her to not like scream her face off at him as soon as he moses on up to the camp. It's like Hey Erin what's up to? Come across to the fact of like hey. I didn't try to drown you several days ago. No, not at all I'm just good, old, friendly Charlie. Don't you worry so? We'll get to how clear act at the end but Damn Clare I'm not I'm not a fan of this. I get it and I and I. Think it is, it is certainly more a sin of the writing standpoint. Obviously we got to assign it to a character regatta. Assign its quirks. You like welcome Charley right back. But I do feel like it's the writers being like. We gotta work. Charlie back into the good graces of everyone. This isn't really working. And, so they just do it really quickly, they do. They really kind of like Yada Yada through the reintegration arc. For Charlie pace and it's not the antastic. I think the scene with him later in the episode is really good. But the with here is just sort of like. Okay all right. Yeah and it's also a little bit weird timing, because like we've seen like Charlie and drips and drabs, but I feel like since like the fire plus water and the long con one two punch of dark, Charlie. We really haven't had an opportunity to talk about his character to too much. It doesn't feel lawyer. Getting like mentored back to shape by saieed during the Henry Gale stuff's sword of not not in a major variety that I could sort of connect the dots without having to draw some lines of okay. This is Charlie is natural growth. It seemed like because the finale is coming in. This is the penultimate episode. It was the thing about okay. Let's make sure we serve tea up a lot of these characters. What's to come in the finale? And Charlie is obviously going to have a larger role to play in the finale with the hatch so like. Let's all the Clare Stuff here. All right so there reconciliation is gonNA happen somewhat later in the episode, but it's at least going to be cut short for now because they're both going to get distracted. The Michael's back Michael's here and Sun and Jin GonNa get very excited about Michael. It's what you heard at the top of the. I did love the as part of the cliff as you mentioned like all the people all the. Wall? I didn't realize he was so like I guess he did. He's a pretty popular person I. Think like that this scene which we heard at the top of the podcast is another example Another great ambassador like the tonal contrast of this episode where there is a lot of love for Michael Michael has a lot of goodwill with these people, and he's wrestling with this extraordinary guilt of I'm unworthy of this. I'm betraying you. All I have murdered two of you and he's unflinching when he tells son Injin about the bodies. When the? Sun's GonNa ask who are they says it's analysts and Libyan says what happened to them. And he says with no question about it doesn't say who did it, but he says they were murdered. Not, ally not ally technically. I will say though that one of my other. Picking points pick at points with this episode is the moment you mentioned? It just cuts over, and they're just like digging a hole for the bodies right there with no notice to anybody I think one of my issues with this episode. Is Again I? Do understand why you want have a little bit for everyone from eight one five. Plus I suppose considering the to tailor that are left, but this just feels like one of those episodes were like nobody's talking to each other like it just feels strange to me personally, and maybe this speaks to what you talked about last week. And Lucienne? Libby sort of not being highly considered in the camp that. The people that come out of the hatch. Don't do anyone the luxury of like talking about what happened. They just like Schlep? The bodies out plop them onto the ground next to boot Shannon and just start digging a hole. It's a weird thing I just don't think that anyone really. They're not huge fans you know. It's like Oh. It's an libby. That's crazy. What happened? I think it's the what happened. Is the bigger deal for everybody? Then it happened to them. Right, but imagine like two bodies just plopping down on the beach. Wouldn't that be the thing that you're drawn to you besides? But, maybe we just don't see that stuff you know. They just choose not to show. All the just run like holy crap. Is that a Dad Congress? mean the funeral is well attended bike the gawkers. Many of them are are going to be traveling to the funeral, but many of them are just there, right? You know so maybe as soon as they saw the bodies, they didn't leave. Possible, it's possible. They could have at least helped. Your frigging? The room to dock the gawkers some points this week. We might have to like a just an invisible honorary. LLC POINT! VP's to hand out this week. All right, so let's go back to flashback thirteen days ago in a in a very triggering font for Mike Bloom. Michael. Dawson and we're GONNA, we'RE GONNA see. We're going to see the whole. The other side of the Hunting Party of Michael. Being tied up. He's a spit Mr friendly I mister friendly. A big laugh about that. Fair's fair did take boy. Don't do it again, though please I really don't like it when people spit my eye. And Yeah, it's just it's the reverse of this. We're seeing a bunch of the scene from the Hunting Party again. This episode I think it's like forty six minutes something like that forty five minutes so a little bit longer and I think some of that length comes from the replaying of scenes in the past summit. Favorite thing that lost does law says the sometimes. I think this is the weakest seen in the episode. This is like Alex being more out on the show and we're getting like the. Bringham in Alex or bring her in Alex. You're absolutely right. BRINGER IN ALEX and we're GONNA. Cut To Alex with picket and they like. Get into this many fight about expelling pick you do it. No I. Don't want to do what he called for us, please. Can you instead of me but? Ex! But why does she not want to do it? Like what how much indoctrination has she had to the others at this point because I. Guess You. Sort of coming across right now is like the wild child of the others right? The one who's like I'm going to help Claire. Escape, I don't want to for some reason. Just push kate out into the middle of the jungle. Like how much effort is yeah? Yeah, yeah, so but also. Also, think that I dislike about it is how really along gates the scene in in memory of bring her out? Alex now takes like twenty minutes between. Bring her out Alex and Kate cutting out. Because pick it loses rock paper scissors against. Alex has to bring kate out. So what's happening? It's like twenty twenty minutes of Mr Friendly and the others and Sawyer Jacket. Lock all standing there being like so it was actually it was actually. I take. That got eliminated all right. We'll try this again now. Now that we're all set up. It really is a stage production in that in that way, but instead of being in live theater turned out to be like a films production where they decided to eliminate that the waiting time to figure out who was going to push kate out into the middle of the jungle, tapping their feet weightings. You really really none of you have beards. Thank you own any. You see me throw something. You guys hungry. We got some beans beanfeast while waiting. To take a while. I mean what else is there to say about that scene I. It's probably like it's one of the longest scenes of the episode and to me one of the least. An! Seen, one of the I can't speak with very little substance substantive. The Green. Your rendered speechless from it. It's just one of those flashback. Scenes of like adds absolutely nothing and considering how a lot of the on islands stuff so far has pretty substantive in that. It's like even stuff from maternity leave. It was like we're understanding. What's happening with Clare in the staff. This is just like Michael was there. Alex is listening the out out there. We've introduced. Alex now. Here's a little bit more. We're just pushing. The Alex thing a little bit further. But. You could also be like if I told you. We're doing like a this is true. What else is true and I told you. Hey, Alexander situation where she's told to do something. You'd probably say oh. Yeah. She doesn't do it because we've already seen that from her maternity. Leave, so it's not like found any new revelation. Alex is just more so like she just keeps on keeping on. Keep it on as Mike. Bloom loves to say. Yeah. Is that is that? Is that one? You always say on the BNB when you come back from an ad break. Oh, yeah I guess I. Do just keep on keeping on one of my things so i. get that. Yeah, so on your forehead. So, everyone knows now. So we get out of that scene and Michael's on the beach with Vincent, there's not a lot to this other than it's just visit. Fit finally has like a tried and true owner. Hot second after Shannon died and nobody took up. Not Very judgy because we know that Vincent has like this, you know sixth or maybe even a seven cents. Where Vincent knows, he definitely has the fourth force Vincent knows when someone needs them. And so Vincent's here with Michael Loves Michael and you got to imagine like so he killed. These guys are. It's not great, Dad, but. Yeah! Scott to be pretty rough for you for a while, but I'll hang all all hang out. But I'm GONNA help Charlie with? Yeah, I don't think stick around for too long, but like you know. Listen. Tough days had my friend. You know to me, VR listen you better hope. You're not waiting for me. Know Vincent will never go to Hell Vincent's live forever Hurley made it so. All right so sawyer and Jack. They're going to go through the tent. Day Drinking. Yeah. So where did he? We're going to obviously like Juliet housing a big bottle. Desmond is obviously houses his own bottle. Do we think that this handle was available in the hatch? Because otherwise you've only seen sawyer, drink the mini bottles from the from the our guests. Though that would make sense, it makes sense that this is just a Dharma supply or something like Kelvin or desmond snuck on from there. At the start of this. But yeah, he's got. Maybe I would imagine it's actually. Make sense of the Palais paltrow right because last two episodes ago, we found out that there was wind Zach. Bernard Zach so he's. He's boozing it up. He wants to know what's going on with Jack and freckles. Jungle is where we get it introduced. We were caught in a net. Says Jack says it's like Oh. That's what they're calling it these days, so we're very much misinterpreted and he's GonNa. He's going to bring it up again later. We'll listen in on that and we'll just let the record reflect. Jack never really corrects them and I think. Jack figures out that Sawyer things. We were caught in a net means, bump and uglies. And Jackson great elect that interpretation lie on the field. And this is another reason why maybe three minutes Paris. Interestingly with question mark is because Sawyer. Did this exact same thing to kate last episode? Right and you could tell it's just so stuck in his craw like Juliette has not come into the picture yet. So this is like the apotheosis of his focus, the epicenter of his focus that he is just so concerned that he has to act all party asked all parties involved like what is it so it's not him gossiping. I think he's just truly desperate to find out if she indeed if he lost out on this side of the the love and so far he thinks he did. So. They are going to then talk with Saieed site and wants to know what's going on. Sawyers going to recruit. Ishin Jackson's. No, you're not allowed to come Michael doesn't want you go in, and he knows where we're going his call inside. It's like excuse me. Also. Sad that saieed only found out just now I. Mean I guess like a day or so is past like somebody had to find out in this way that Ben escaped right considering how and Michael is going to accuse him of him being too emotionally linked with the Henry gale of it, all and I cannot imagine like the just downtrodden. This of sites move when he finds out that Henry Gale and I don't think he thrilled that any of this. These probably upset said he doesn't like any of it. And I think he especially doesn't like Jack like wait. Are you seriously not going to bring me? I'm site dry I. Don't know if you know I'm definitely the guy that you call. Yeah Son. No Sawyer makes the one of de Point to the episode. It's not cold. Check each hour, so site aid is getting a gun and Sawyers overstepping Jack. You're a good call from Sawyer. Here points per sawyer points docked from the dock back the hatch. RECCO, have you ever seen anyone so happy to type in the numbers? I, thank God. He's there, 'cause it really does seem like and here's another thing. Why like the communication thing is weird? This episode is because Jack and his group late because echelman locked left. You know before and didn't show up until they left the hatch. Have no idea where locking echo, are and so did they just leave Vicki like well I guess Michael, put the numbers in like they just completely entrusted either him or the return of lock in Echo to type in the numbers. I'm from that perspective good. Good on echo in many ways for keep on keeping on to US I guess one of my catchphrases with pressing the pressing the button and putting the numbers, because he is quite literally saving the world. When everyone else has other concerns to knows what to do this whole thing he's here. He's here to push the button, so he's very pushes the button. He's very smiled when the numbers restore, and when the numbers restore, somebody walks in and just want you to hear what this person has to say really quickly. So you wake up in the middle of the night. He grabbed Jesus stick race off into the jungle. You don't coal. Right he's. An you bay street. Uplifting Bernard's joke. End the first of two types that he'll do it. Just. When I thought Charlie was redeeming himself in this episode, we saw a moment where he's a total scumbag. Steal someone's joke without giving them permission. Tourism is a plagiarism to the same person to like. He's not trying out the new joke on somebody else like you buy fake. He's going to the exact same person. Just repeating the same thing echo hurts set him like three days. Isn't that Bernard's line. Because he's like probably heard that a lot during his time with Bernard traveling around Yeah. That's Bernard's thing of. Sort of his penny for your thoughts right or his keep on keeping on. He's built. Call you regard is like the only person who is thrilled when Charlie dies. He is like thank God. That guy just kept ripping off my line. frigging jokes finally theft. It's no good. But Mr Echo I. Love Echo in this episode, and this is one of my favorite things is like so charlie. I was hoping you'd do me this solid of going back to camp getting all of my shit and bringing it here for me and I was like excuse me now, because like yeah. I'M GONNA move in here. What about the church. The church wasn't really a thing. This is the spot at Charlie's like skirt. You did lame. Yeah wants nothing to do. Well. It's interesting, because yeah, I mean this really is a huge pivot for Meko. He goes out into the jungle once and comes back, and he is literally changing faiths here Josh his devotion to the Church has found a new church in the hatch. He says I'm supposed to be doing something different now and I. Do feel Charlie a bit here as well because again as maybe downplayed as Charlie's recovery has been in especially his relationship with Echo I think you sort of sees echo if we're talking about it from an addiction perspective. He's sort of like his spot. Right, he's been the guy that sort of has helped him through, and I guess using the faith as well to have Charlie of reconnect with that and come back around to not becoming that person that was existing fire plus water, and so it is a bit like echo, pulling the rug out from under Charlie, but also saying hey, can you pull the rug out from your own feet and then please bring me the rug. Is Very very funny and was like no way dude. You'd better go leg at the clock's ticking. Go Pack Yourself. Pack your things and go. Michael was packing mangoes back at the beach. And this Sawyer shows is hey. I just told about Michael not like that. And Sawyer does not like that Michael does not like that. It's like we're going to war. Do we not want the one guy who has actually been in a war? Bike finally all right fine. God now. Another thing we're going to have to unravel. Do, we do. We think that I mean Josh. Obviously you and I. Ask people who have studied survivors so many times. We know like the way to react to a plan when you don't want. It's not going your way Michael wearing his heart on his sleeve too much and like very much. You know overreacting when hearing that. Just kill people. Cut The guy some slack. Now really that's what's going on us with. A tiny. Break Bad. He just murdered people. He's having a hard time keeping it all together. No Michael is. He's just cracking. It's not going well. Every, this house of cards, which is so delicate as it stands, is already starting to come apart. So, that's the big problem. We get another flashback. It's eleven days ago, so for two days Michael was being dragged around around the island by Mr Friendly and his gang. And He's not thrilled about it, and they finally get the seaside village. The whole yeah, we see the hole in the wall. We see all these tents. These people with dried fish, the description that Michael gave to to Jack and everybody into the road turns out to be turns out to be nice I mean it's pretty accurate. Right I mean I. Don't know I feel like it's a bit of age shaming to be like. It's only old people earn. The people guarding the door look pretty young Danny Pickett is not, but he's. More or less, describing circumstances right like it seems like it is not like a situation that we wouldn't be able to handle. It does feel like. Maybe we can take him like I. Do feel like the full weight of eight one five, being thrown at this group. This was the others i. do think when five could take them, but this is not the whole group. The others I wonder. Is this literally just like a dummy village? Is this just here? As like maybe like even literally, Siab's literally here as like a prison to mess with anybody that they have to bring over this way like walnut here it's why takes like eight days at least. For for wall to show up because Walter, not even at this spot. I Yeah I mean I think that's confirmed in the next episode. What is completely abandoned and the fact that the door which is being guarded is a broom closet. I think that's that is a perfect microcosm is the fact that it is the man behind the curtain, right? It's the giants, scary green head, but behind is the complaint is the complete opposite? It's very clear that I think they almost have like a staging. It's like a model house. Words like okay. Okay, we really got to present stuff as the big hillbillies, let's sort of outfit ourselves and come to this village where we all live. It's I. Don't know when in the process of Ben. Being the leader that this was set up, or maybe this was a leftover from the hostels era of it all, but I very much saying that this is just a set that they had people inhabit for like a week and a half to make Michael truly believed. That that seems right to me I mean. I think it could be something that they can. They can set up and dismantle with some ease I. Remember those it is like that is a lot like that I think it's pretty much the deal. We're going to have in the funny pages after. After pick it takes a takes a blood sample from Michael Theory here. Is that the Michael Blood sample is because they know that he could turn into plants, and so they want to study that ability. And, it's interesting. I duNNo blood recently taken I'm surprised that he was able to just stick the needle right in his arm, and not go for a vein. Yeah, we'll. Pick it superpower is. He's like a great vein name. Oh God. Just the odd superpowers that these people have accrued between Mr Friendly's throwing arm and Janey its ability. He's the perfect Labonte missed. He can find any vein and is King of lobotomy. We are going to meet Miss Clue. Who I love I. Love this clue. I love her, but also she's like a great unfortunate representative of just what the Hell was she doing? I showed it with her. It must be like a scheduling thing that would be my hope at least two I. Mean I was reading up on this clue. Apparently, she was supposed to die in the Glass Ballerina instead of the hour. So maybe she was not supposed to be long for this world, but yeah I. Mean this is yet another smokescreen of person. We think okay Mr Friendly's dot. The person in charge wait a minute. Could this woman miss clue being charged? Her name is literally clue. It is that a clue and I just think that she does a really good job April grace. Is the actress who plays this character. And there's just like the way that like. She's like staring into Michael Soul asking him all these questions that are obviously very triggering to him as it pertains to adrift and I do think if there was any retroactive defense of drift, it is I guess somewhat similar to the upcoming defense that I'll have for some episodes in season three that I think it's a setup episode that it gets. An. Body of work that helps you understand where Michael is coming from from an emotional space I don't think it's too much I don't think it's additive and the way. Everything is additive to special in the way that I think stranger in strange land, which is the episode all defend to a certain a certain extent. Operative word, certain extent in that way. It's such an outlier. Jack that I. Think it helps trick your mind into accepting that the flash forward might be a flash back in in through the looking glass. Here I think like in special like you already got a lot of pain that Michael went through as a father for. A Adrift reminded you of that. And it does give you that line of for someone who wants back so badly. You don't seem to know much about them. Michael I is ripped straight from that episode. Right I missed. Clues says in here as well after asking them question after question after question. Bringing up the fact including the including the yeah, the question did Walter here in place. He wasn't supposed to right right, right. We'll never really know why he does it, but he does it. Yeah and I. It's interesting you know that line. One perspective, it's obviously thematic as you mentioned though I do agree that it makes a drip. Look better in that perspective, especially the flashback because like we said it's repetitive knowing what we know about. Hey, he didn't know Walt, but he's still wanted him because he was his son or it could be a thing where we know that the others have so much Intel on. These people could have gotten recordings from their custody hearings and was. Throwing in that exact quote trigger totally possible. In, which case like good on miss clue for like really pushing those. Who Rocks Michael in this episode? In the same way that like I praise. Ethan Rom the efficiency with which he does bad things. This clue does a very bad things in this episode in hyper efficient ways. Bisque lose. Rockstar as far as I'm concerned. Yeah I think that again. If as a front face as the others at this point, obviously in lieu of Ben's absence, she does a good job of like commanding the Authority and she like the only time she really flinches is when Walt mentions the room, so maybe that's the one weakness. Right is that she did not mitigate him enough to have him. Give away some of the other secrets, but and it's another thing that makes me sad that we really don't find out that much about her. As a person, we'll see her next episode and then I think we'll see your wedding like seven seven. and. That's magician. Yes I feel like unfortunately like. Unmasks potential and this is a little different to me. Like the waltz powers things just because she seemed like such an interesting character, and rather than being like a game changer to the mythos like the wall stuff was. It would have been nice to see her. You know as part of that gang of others that we get to know so well on a first name basis. Yeah, I mean I. Get it to a certain degree of like it's you're waiting for Bisque Luda return. And then she does, and then she's killed and that's surprising. And that's effective and I think it is effective and enter seven seven, and it makes that moment really dramatic good. I just wish. I wish we'd gotten more per awake I. I think that there is opportunity there. That that greatly missed. So one of the whiffs of loss. There aren't a crazy amount of them. As far as I'm concerned, but they certainly exist, and I think the potential that they had with clue is is definitely one that they dropped the ball on. Let's go back to to micro in the present. Yeah, which they also, this is the only time I, believe jobs, so they decide to put today in the lowest. Yeah. Why? Why the yet? One time each. Of the ways in which this episode structured is messing with you so hard. So. It's. So strange. used the flashback drought. That's a perfect audio signifier. We don't need like a reminder that today, and if you do be consistent, do it all the other times. We flashback for some reason. They thought the audience would be super confused by the fact that Michael was somewhere else eleven days ago and is now here now. He's well. He's moving over the island, so we go back to today. Michael has heard that site is coming. He knows he has to defuse. This he thinks uses. We don't know. Maybe sight could've come. It's possible it's possible. But he or I think Michael could very easily just been like. Hey, I know you wanna go, but here's a good idea like set up a few paces back just in case we get I know ambushed or something by the others you can go. Run back and tell everybody like that's a very easy. To sell them on instead he doubles down I decide who stays and who goes and you stay I. Know You want to help, but I gotta do all right, so let's hear that conversation that actually happens because in the space of a single conversation sites rob an MVP leader of this episode. You're not coming. Welcome back my look. I. Know told you all right, but. It's not gonNA work. In our company, and why is it that I'm not coming? Because you're going after the guy who escaped. And I'm going after my son. Are. You implying I let a desire for revenge compromisable safety. Im implying that I decide who stays and who goes and you stay. I know. You want to help. But I gotTA. Do this my. Of course. Good Luck Michael. Thanks. Site does the whole like He. He shakes his hand with both hands. I do. Like the the be the BS detector is just blaring, because yeah again. This is the lady doth protest too much. That Michael is just so adamant about like this in I know on paper. You have the great skills, but you can't go, 'cause you're too emotionally motivated for revenge, which contrasts so heavily to when he approaches Hurley and convinces hint to go by saying. WILL YOU WANNA get revenge? It's one of these things for like again going back to reality. TV staple if these people will compare notes Michael, you are screwed because you just used a reason for not to go as a reason for Hurley to gusts, so he he really is floundering at this point though you do you do point out that there is sort of like psychological motivations. You. Don't have to like it. You don't have to approve of what Michael has done, but Michael is going through a lot right now. There is a lot happening internally with this guy. He just murdered. People and murder is not something that comes to this guy naturally, which is an ultimate. Mark, a positive for him, but he's still. The things he did the things that he'll never be able to undo them but like this all of this fallout from it you could pull the trigger, but like can you live with what you've done? He's having a very hard time living with what he's done both like emotionally, but also practically he is like having a hard time keeping stories straight. He's lying to people. He's being seen through probably by ECHO, but certainly. By here. Because these are professionals in this arena, these are people who are used to this arena. Certainly site has has interrogated harsher soldiers than Michael Moore battle-tested people than Michael. and. We saw that in one of them right like you had to interrogate this guy that refused to relent. And you know he did so by getting blood on his hands, like friend or foe. He will do what needs to be done. Get out why I really loved this scene. Because it's it's site, the human lie detector, but there's also such a know. We talk about site is one of the most romantic characters on loss and I. Think one of the things that is great about side is. When he is a really empathetic character, which doesn't happen all the time. It happens a lot where we keep really tries to like. Sit and listen to a story or sit and get to know you. or He's gotten to know you, and so he trusts you enough to share with you. I. Know You and I disagree about the end of one of them whether it's charlier. Clare but I love that idea that like it feels like he can trust that Charlie and he had this shared experience, and so he can open up to Charlie about that I think there's this. There's this moment where is looking at. He's taking his hand even before he takes his hand where he's like after Michael said I have to do this my way that sides brow is burrowed and he's like studying Michael. And it's all clicking. They're right there, and it's not just like the logical connection of odd. This guy's lying to me. It's also like the sorrow of man. They turned to Michael. We of now work again. Yeah, like Oh, that sucks and I think it's even when he says gridlock Michael Like. I don't think it's not Ernest I, think now it's like good luck Michael you've buried yourself into a hole and I'm going to have to keep you there. That is that's what's going on here and I. It's it's it's. It's bitter disappointment on a few different levels, but it's also unbear- being the truth in this moment. Yeah and I think there's disappointment there. One thing I will also say is like you know I understand why. This episode also tees off immediately going on the journey, I kind of wish we had i. don't know maybe one more episode somehow to like. Sit In this just because it does also feel very quick that you know say does have this plan to eventually go around the island, but like I would have loved to see more investigators saieed to that perspective I it. What you're saying really is is a great emotionally resonant point for saieed that I would have loved to. To see more of this, the guy who very very unique circumstances that he's sort of knows that Michael's lying, but also sees the situation, but also has remorse for the fact that he's. He's been turned and he knows it unlike someone like Echo. Who really doesn't have that much of a connection to Michael say he does. He's bleeding heart, and so maybe site is the character that that we could have used more of in this episode of because he's going to go off in a boat and go on his own little journey that I. it would have been nice to see. Emotionally, reconcile this as well despite knowing that this is sort of business as usual for what Charlie is, he's back on the beach. He's Solo building this church. For only time, though 'cause, it's GONNA show up to throw them off. It's like Hey, what are you doing? Oh, by the way I got Erin. And I love. Kidding me like seriously out of all. This like I was trying to Mac on Clare that got caught Michael. Echo walked on me or I walked out on. ECHO wherever you put it, and now you're bringing me heroin dog. Yeah. It's not great, but at least Charlie is going to. He's going to do the thing here where he's GonNa. Throw all of the statues in the ocean and into the end of Charlie's heroin storyline. It's the end of Charlie. To wrestle with the heroin demons, and like yeah, maybe would have been nice to keep those for the people who may need them for medical supplies at some point in time, but at the same point there is some very very powerful about throwing away your addictive your addictions. Especially, when you have a throat to rival. He tosses them far and. The thing that makes me question retroactively though is so. Why didn't Charlie do this sooner? Right like when Sawyer Cassia obviously knew I guess from Sawyer like where his stash of heroin was. Like, why did he not do this? After the events of fire plus water and the long con and I guess my thoughts are either one. He was so at rock bottom that he was legitimately entering jazzing again or be that this big question that we had over fire plus water of was Charlie using or not, it was the former, and that he wants to keep them around to obviously feed his habit, and only now when he feels truly clean, does he well? I think at the very least I don't think he was using, but I think at the very least it is that i. thing of things are so bad right now. And even before fire plus water, he's hoarding stuff, and so it's it's. It's well I. Feel Safer knowing that it's here. which again a very relatable bit of behavior for somebody who deals with this stuff? And I think like he is now at a place where he feels like I don't need it i. don't need it. I'm building a church I trust myself again. You know I trust in my ability to to live without it. And it, so it's very symbolic, and he's just having disbursed of motivation to do the thing. Having there's a burst of of courage to do thing and yeah it. Would it be great if he could just like? Go to Jack there? Hey, you might need these. Sure. But if he also can just make clear it from existence, make sure her. It's gone forever. That is also an option that he may want to it. It's Hurley enlisted. Be Dumping out the food right in a less utilitarian perspective where there's not a bunch of junkies on the beach, wanting heroin and needing heroin, but it's this idea of like personifying your demons, unlike Cathartic getting rid of them, and I think it's Cathartic for us as well I, think revolt, you know joining the throngs of people that are not a big fan of the Charlie's seasons to stuff in how he's still fighting the demon of heroin, after seemingly conquering it in season one, but this at least services. Services away for the show to be like. We're officially done with that now. I know we showed you know. Charlie staring at it during exodus, but now this thing is officially done. You're done with fire plus water, but now unfortunately he's injected himself and set himself on a new path that go on and three, and also a little full soccer. Mom from Charlie and Locke Relationship, right? We're lock happens to be chilling out on the beach. Charlie's doing this and you know after the very tempestuous relationship. They had ten episodes ago. Lock has a modicum of respect in Charlie I it gets more like okay. You didn't need me for that, and maybe it is like even assigned to lock of like Get Get yourself back on track. If Charlie Charlie can strap himself back up. Right because I. Think the only lock is gets up rudely so from the funeral and leaves. When? He's at funerals anyway so. Not Not. Not The worst choice doesn't have their blood on him mind. He feels like he has their blood on him, but he doesn't literally have it on him back at the hatch. Okay, so this has to be the final jacket. ECHO scene, said that a couple of times. Be like. Hey, where the hell Sandra. Where's luck I also? So, he says all right well. We're going to bury some people. We're GONNA bury. Your friends sunset. He's like cool. Have Fun, not going. And Jack and Sawyer are going to be in the hatch, jackets or hanging around all episode, Long Pretty Much. Talent about how he's going to tell Jack about just how much he views. Jack Pal. What's listening in on this conversation with Jacket Sawyer? Talk. Funeral. I'm sure early WANNA. Say something about Libby. Never even last night. Court Ted I screwed her. How she got my God and She jumped him. We got caught in a net now. He told me this. About to close. Friend Could kill somebody. Now. She's go. This. Weird scene. Yeah this is let's let's psychoanalyze lawyer in this scene right because that's essentially what? This is a really interesting moment from lawyer that honestly we haven't seen since the days of exodus part one and it's interesting I think that. Obviously this this episode draws comparisons to born to run, because that was like technically the pendle episode episode of Season One, but this draws more parallels to exodus part one the week before the other. Observed like its own penultimate episode, because this is sort of like the sequel to that infamous scene between Sawyer and Jack and the jungle, where they say goodbye to each other and Sawyer opens up about his meeting with Christian shepherd here so you're has his own moment of opening up to tell Jack you're. You're my best friend objects like Oh this is awkward because you're definitely not even in like. What, what did Tom have on my space top? You're not in my top eight. Do you think Tom Friendly has a top aide. Say so maybe sawyer mix is top fifteen. I seen maybe Zine I think at this moment. He's on the rise right 'cause like. Yes. He ended up like giving up. We played poker together. Well, that's the thing though it's because the Jacksonville relationship has been very intriguing from the past several weeks between like the poker game or the other stuff like he's been very antagonistic towards Jack so I wonder what caused slur to come clean to Jack Right now like it, because the whole continent thing and having his gun stolen made him feel so I dunno emasculated that he feels like he needs to confide body about every could be i. think he's feeling I think he's feeling upset. I think he's he's. A nerve has been struck by the death of Ana Lucia for sure and a simultaneous nerve that has been struck as him thinking that Jack and caterer thing. So like right, so so here's my question. She's gone. WHO's the? About that. To placate. Kate. I Dunno I personally. Yes, Kate I think. I think. I, think he. I mean as much as we talk about these Sawyer. Andalucia Chemistry over the course of the season. I think that is the one who has more emotional stakes into. The, the more devastating news to him than. Is Dead is that Kate has apparently according to him slept with Jack and I think that's something that does actually crush him so again. It makes this much more interesting that not only does he choose to open up about that? Choose to open up about that to the guy that she quote. Unquote slept with and broke his heart over. Sawyers still good and still wants to be friends after all this. You know, he so as to be friends back. Sawyer. Jacks the secret astle joy is the good hero. Why wonder if it's also maybe like in this moment again if he is mad at Kate for what she may or may have done if it's like a Bros, before hoes type of thing, unfortunately of like screw cade. She had my feelings and trampled on them like but Jack. You're someone I know. We talked about this. A couple episodes right like Jack does not bullshit wrestler like he'll tell him to his face like Hey, get this from me doing now. Like War I'm threatening. You and Sawyer appreciates that to a certain extent, so despite the circumstances as to why he may be feeling remorse I guess it could be that person to confide into because Jackson the only person that like give it to him back the site, okay. Sorry sad stuff. This is the opposite of the scene in exodus. Part One. It's up the opposite. Sad version of that. Yeah it really is. We're like Sawyer has the status and the power there here. It almost seems like Jack has the power or at least that Sawyer? Supplication himself into a more vulnerable position because he's coming, he's really opening up coming out with his feelings about life and friendship. Jack. So interesting and I don't know, had there been again that episode in between this and let alone maybe like a friendship bracelet for him, Jack Alright. Michaels of Pine, Hurley and kate they're digging holes. Indicate I. Think Thinking with like a pool skimmer. I don't know I. Don't need that guy. They work with what you got back there. At least it's not a boomerang stick. Michael's get to say all right. It's a plan we're going tomorrow. Kids like okay, cool and Jose. Okay cool I'm not going. And Michael, Michael's not getting the answer he wants. He's like what about revenge? You ought revenge, don't you? And he was like look. I'm sorry about what happened. But I'm not going I'm not going, and so at this point Michael's like. Oh, how am I going to get her to go? At this point, then get a really extended flashback scene. This is three days ago. Three days ago, which means I think time wise that Michael Hoofed it directly from clue to the hatch right based on how long it took for Michael to get from the hatch to miss clue in the first place that was about two or three days. This is about. Three days ago than we're taking like the full day of two for the road into account at this point. Yeah, I would imagine so well. It's also remember that Michael I guess. 'cause it took them what two days to get from where they were in the hunting party to arriving at the seaside villa I, think he. He ran like that was genuine exhaustion when he when he collapses. Jack and kate well. Just pure adrenaline, because also a week has passed at this point. They brought him some food, but you can imagine he's not getting a lot. He's title to assume from tied to a tree and jungle of mystery to borrow a phrase from people, except there's not enough plants around its these incite, he's. Otherwise escaped, you could have asked his own interest blended in. Mike, Luckily turning. From Batman. Have No. That could have been. Totally. All religious. Yeah so Michael is he's. He's tied up to a poll here. He's been here for a week. At this point a little bit over a week I, think. Like, they're bringing him food, but who knows what kind of food it is, he hasn't seen he hasn't heard. Hide nor hair from Walt MISC-, Lewis, saying Oh. Yeah, what's life outside? He's outside right now. And Micheal doesn't doesn't buy I think that that timeline is really important to keep in mind that this this whole thing is about to unfold is very very very very intense. Michael has been deprived for eight days now. He's been tied up for eight days yet to assume. Bathroom breaks. Maybe not. Maybe he's got a Pale right now. There's just a bleeding, no. But like eight days in that situation, I'm sure feels like eight years like I. Feel like that might be awful. What he is enduring at this moment time especially, if Miss Clues asking him to similar questions that he was asked the first arrived, which is again very similar to the deposition, he received and one of the most emotionally crushing moments of his life lakes. He's experiencing. De on the off of that. There's also mounting frustration the fact that apparently all she's doing is coming in asking questions leaving like he has no idea what's going on. He's also I think very pessimistic at this point like I, think he? There's a very good chance. He jumped to the worst case scenario that will rise dead, and they're just like screwing with him, but he brings up that there's been in development since you. You came here Michael I. Guess my question is if we're looking at the time line was the development you know. Ben Getting captured was the development something that happened after Ben got captured. We talked a lot about how Oh, did something happen? The made Ben realized like Oh crap. This is more of an intense situation than I realized. Get me the hell out of here and then from that perspective. Maybe this would then. Be Like okay now. We're going to spur this along. Here's the league. If they've got access to the parole. Or if they've got some way of looking in on the Swan, it's like Oh, no, he's been found out, so we need to really kick this thing into overdrive because I do think timeline wise. Cheese coming to Michael roughly around the time that Ben has been found out. I think that line. Yeah, I. Yeah I think exodus are not actually just lockdown lines up with. Dave is going to be. Is going to be on there. There's there's a west to At least two full days of action, Post Ben being discovered as not Henry. Gale so the time the time lines up. That miss clues like okay. He's been found. We need to get him out urgently. So. They're lighting this fire under under Michael's, but he's been sensory deprived. He's like you say he's probably jumping to the to the worst case. Scenario probably feels like he's been here for a thousand years. He's going through all sorts of heartache. And then she says your son is here I'm going to bring him in right now, and she calls for picket and this is the scene. This is the alleged three minutes. That only goes for a minute. You have three minutes. then. I'm going. To handle. You okay. They hurt you. Take tests. What we're not going to talk about that. How's this? He's great. He misses you. Scared. Don't care, it's going to be over. We'll soon okay. I'm going to get you out of here. Okay now. They say they're advocating. Want me to put you in the room again. What? That's. Not The way. To. Help increase. Bill! will go take you out of here, okay? GonNa get. A wall. And we're sparing you the subsequent like sobbing and hysterical crying. Afterwards is the scene continues and he's just. So, all of the things are in place for Michael that we hit established before listening to that, and then that is the extent of Michael's interaction with his son. Since he was taken from the boat and year, he's alive and yet he looks physically healthy enough, but he's dragged away once again. Saying, don't leave me. Help me save me. Don't leave me. Is this not a man who will do literally anything to save his son at this point in time? Yeah, well, we're talking about PTSD I. I mean this made my heart. Swinging threw me back to when he screaming Dad Dad as he gets taken from the raft. You can imagine it's the exact same thing here, and it's another heart. Wrenching event were yes. This is a little bit less of a guttural drop than it was when the others took walt at that time, but still like it has to be so tough to see this guy that you've been caring so so much Hamid working titled Asleep to get back for the past. Past over much amount of time, and then to have him just like screaming that he loves him like that was another thing that was missing the first time, obviously because of the circumstances, but like that made my heart just completely drop into my pants is just hearing him yell. I love you I love you. Dad has to renew any sort of women. Baker that he had to the point where won miss clue is GonNa. Ask Him like you know this is what you need to do. He's. He's been reply whatever you want and it's. It's a simultaneous thing where a I think he's so beaten down at this point. He has been starved. He has been pretty much tortured. And now he saw his son and how to take it away again that he is just so spent. He's willing to do anything, but also he's sort of renewed at the same time where he's like okay, he's alive I. Know He's here I'm giving him an action plan to to some extent. They're not giving them. But that's and that's also. I have a problem with that. Because here's the thing like because what we find out in season three the reason why they need these people or at least Jack is to essentially save Ben's life. If it was that important miscue shouldn't be like, tell them anything. No, because that means he did. He might not bring the people, and that means Ben dies. Give them a story. That's going to work so much better than Michael. That's for sure, but it's effective. It works you know. Pick the nets if we need like it's going to work. Yeah and I will say going back to our timelines just looking at loss pedia so yes. The twenty first of November two thousand and four is when the events of lockdown happened including Henry Gale being find out as Ben Linus. The twenty second of November is apparently when misc- Lou meets with Michael and we see this scene. Play out, so yeah, it does seem like indeed the development she might be speaking about more likely than not is indeed ben found out, and that's why they had to sort of give the hurry up on it, but yeah I mean look. I cannot speak highly enough of Herald Pernod's performance in this episode as annoying as the Michael. Character might be in today with his insistence like you see the reasoning here and to see. See Michael just go to pieces over this substantiates at least why he did what he did. The follow through might not be great at least compared to some of our better liars like a Sawyer for instance, but you just see how emotionally spent he was from all this and how he has these blinders of I need to get my son back. Do whatever you want. GimMe this with four people in it I. Promise You I'll do that because not only am I getting my son back, but we were getting the hell off the silent, and never seeing your for sure and Harold Harold Perrineau is tremendous threat the entire episode, but this scene is devastating. Yeah, it's. Just shows how great of an actor his, even if the character sometimes fails, it's two points I to say you up here, Josh, because I know you wanted to say something about the room before and we do have sort of an impromptu reference to room twenty three in this class. Yeah, so they're. They're going to talk about room twenty three. which is the the the hypnosis Weirdo Room on Hydra Island right? Yeah the brainwashing room. We'll see we'll see first hand, so it's pretty clear to me. That Michael Not Michael That Walt has been kept on Hydra Island, and it's GonNa. Take a little bit to get him from Hydra Island to. To this dummy camp. That that all tracks for me. That'll make sense. Yeah I. Don't know I think. I think just like the whole idea of the content of what is saying to Michael Vick. They're making me take tests. They're making me do all this stuff. Do you WanNa? Put me back in the room. It just for me as a viewer knowing like the room and seeing Carl in that room at one point in time in how it's just like designed to lakes crew with your brain. Makes me so sad for what what is going through and be. Empathetic. We get into a place where Michael is so desperate that he's going to make horrible decision. Right like he doesn't even know, he thinks the room is like I. Know like go to your room. You know just like stay in your in. Bano and I mean even more than screwing with your brain. It's straight up conditioning like they purposely made it a reference to a clockwork orange, and I believe that Karl gets put in there sort of like be brainwashed to not act out against the others I could very much a thing where like if walt is not doing well with these. These quote unquote tests if he's being ornery or if he's like pushing back against what the others are trying to do, and explore his powers that they're going to try to put him in there, and essentially like lobotomize until they get what he wants, and that is freaky, but like that is not outside Ben Linus as per no for sure, so he wants the boat. He's GonNa. He's GonNa get you all. These people I'M GONNA. Get you. I'M GONNA. Get you every last name clue. But I'm GONNA, want the book I'm GonNa want the bird, so he's? He's I also loved it. They wrote down James Ford and he's like who the hell is that. It was a real. It's a really clever way of. A dragging out that mystery of little longer. What was that list? He was burning and as soon as he says is James and also, but also like. I guess maybe Michael is a bit depleted, but like he doesn't need the best. It's four names. He knows these people. So what if they found that listed? He knows you go. At this point? Yeah, he knows you. Yeah. He knows Hugo because I think Hurley. I think he's sort of like come around on using a morals with the manifest stuff. Just why miss clue would give him the notice of formality when if what if cited finds that note that just proves to him like he did not have a pet. Like he could not have written this down. Clearly, someone instructed to take these specific all right, so that's the deal with Michael. It's awful for me like you don't have to forgive him. You certainly do not have to take side. You do not have to like justify Michael's actions. I think they're unjustified able, but they are deeply explained by what goes on here and I think also when you contextualize it with a lot of the pain that Michael has felt in his life surrounding walt. All the different ways in which he wanted to be with Walton, it never worked. The ways that he feels like he failed his son already It just builds you to this place where this guy could be willing to do what he did, but also that the guy who's going to feel wretched about it. Is just like. He's literally you know he's been in many ways. He's just been dammed. Like you've been dammed pulling the trigger. SOLIDIFIES IT! But really even if Anna gives him the gun, Miss Clue just gave him this gun and he feels like has no choice but to shoot it, and sadly, there was probably another way around this. But given the grief given everything that he's put through given the deprivation. All adds to the result that we get, so I think attracts I. think attracts in terms of the character, yeah! I think it does as well and also consider the timeline again like he gets pushed back falls then immediately after this it goes into like the you know the and Livy stuff, and so I do imagine like if he had some time between the end of SOS in the events of two for the road could have formulated something else, but it really is like spring boarding one event to another imagine. Him loose from the thing and he. Starts running that night and he takes a whole day. He's running for a full day and then another night. And he winds up in front of Jack and Kate like that's the time line basically. That's not a lot of time to like really process. What's happened? You know he's already at breakneck pace at that point so. Could come up with a better plan for sure did the time and circumstances. Make it easier for him to make a very bad choice. I also think yes, so we go to the funeral cates comfort, yeah and I. Was GonNA, say comforting. Hurley will not give her a point I. Don't think but Kate like very subtle MVP episode between like the dissuading the situation between Hurley and Michael Breath. arguing to like being hurley shoulder to cry on this episode like this is a pretty good episode for Kate. An emotional support though I am a little sad that again. This is speaking towards the miscommunication between these characters that like. It's weird that Michael came to kate and was like okay. Did you hear like this is our planet? That like Jack wouldn't tell her. You know like he knew where to right right well I. It's like for his own anxiety brain. At that point. It's like you're in right. You're all in. Everyone's in everyone's cool. So Kate's comforting Hurley Sawyers there to heat does not look happy. Lock is nearby, but he's not going. He's got other fish to FRY. He's spills at this point like all right. You know what it's time to move on the hatch. I'm going to. I'm going to unravel this. ECHO situation, so he's GonNa cut off his splint and start hobbling off into the jungle. Yeah, which is super super symbolic, because like you said he's GonNA end up striking against island in live together die alone, but he's doing so by using something that the island gives him. We heard this SOS right that rose predicted by telling like. Yeah, you and I both know you're not going to be on crutches for as long as Jack says that you were, and so he's basically fully healed. He's basically like screw you violent. Thanks for helping my leg heal, but now I'm going to. Try to cause the end of the world accidentally by not getting that bus with watching, hobble off. Everybody is heading to the funeral, including Jack inside who are going to have a little conversation on the way. Plane Crash. On, my way to Los. Angeles Very my dad. I'm sorry to hear that. Seems like such a long time ago now? I was GONNA. Go right from the airport to the cemetery, but. Had No idea what I was GONNA say. Here we are again. I think Michael has been compromised. Keep Walking Jack. When you mean cops lectures are not those of a man who is telling the truth. Why would he? Why do with because I believe a father will do anything for his son. Because I believe Michael may have freed Henry because I believe. He's leading into a trap. You believe a lot. I also believe that was one of them. All right talk to him. He must continue to believe he's in control. How would we WANNA do that? So we can create an advantage. How Do. We have one night to figure that out. They spend the phone eight combing through the jungle, searching for hidden advantage with which to blindside Michael. Yes, they make a fake advantage and think that Michael founded and was going to play it others but Tom. Friendly Mitchell. Helper shakes has had an embarrassment and. This this is one of sites biggest gas clean sure for sure. On money about every single thing that's happening. Yes, yes, it's fantastic to task all right so Michael's been compromised. He read Henry. He's leaving you a trap. Jackson really side. You seem to know a lot and he's like yeah. I was the first to tell you that he was one of them. I love that too being like hey. Jack Remember when you were wrong I was right, and then you you like judge me for it. Well I'm right about this too I'm, too. ASS little, bad acid. He totally has it right. I'm sure I'm. I'm trying to remember what these secret trackers. Because we know that you know. Lock is only a few people about his paralysis. How many people has Jack told about his father I can't remember in that aforementioned Sawyer seen if he said that he was going to bury. Batting. To? Sawyer connected those dots. Basically, Jacks told Kate. He told Kate about it. I think that that might be it at this point. And then there's. Like an overheard it. Yeah but but I think that sight sort of being brought into this circle. This is. As the leader I, think jackson-lee presents a front, and this is a sign of trust to him of light I'm gonNA open up about this. It's not as like a big moment to show that he trusts him. It's more so I think. Jack just sort of taking a step in their relationship. Being like I was GonNa Talk to my dad's funeral couldn't figure out or anything you know this. This is going to be a tough time as well as A. A love sites like very spy. Movie S keep walking. Keep talking. Don't let anybody see move. You know we don't want to tip our tip our hands anymore. Which is why we're GONNA set up exactly what happened. Let together Diallo and where plan B. is going to once again be spouted from as he goes off with a couple of people around the island and find something completely right so funeral time. Jack is going to give a eulogy for Anna. Police officer. Was Easy for her here. She did the best she could. She was a woman and also as much as saying. Play it cool. Jack Jack Not really doing so by staring directly at Michael after he sends. From stuff, so he sends off. And then Hurley is going to give the Libby Eulogy which we should listen into, and it'll take us through the end of the episode, and then we'll talk through what's going on. Libby was. She was. Not. A psychologist. Psychiatrist. One of those? Ways you probably hope a lot of people. ME. She was my friend. It's not fair. That has happened to her. It's not. Going with you. Goodbye. Both. There you have it one of the most one of the twenty most iconic ending. Wow We've been rolling into those recently all right small quibble here with the final line. I love son. Shoe should. This has been a gin line. It sounds odd to me that son who can speak. English just says one word boat like that feels like something more so that Jin would do especially considering that he got into the English language through. Terms. It doesn't really matter to me I. I I really liked the ending as it is I. Love Son having the moment. I think the way engine Kim delivers. It is great and gives us like this really powerful moment of suspense for a week in the real time of being like Yoga. What what's going? On here, what does that mean? Is somebody else like we have hot air balloons less flatly. Yeah, we've got pallets dropping out of the sky. Lots of people coming to the island right now so. You can. You can talk on that if you want for me. I just think it's a great moment. It within this Clare's going to grab Charlie's hand. So the reconciliation is beginning. Whatever. Whatever. That's the thing I I am I'm sorry, Claire, and look I'm all for Clean Charlie and it's clear that they're their each other's constants in that regard, but I just I. Don't know he's he's. He's like not a week ago. Probably was he trying to? It and I also feel like maternity. Leave epilogue as well. This is not. In encounter to that, but I feel like the essence. That I got for maternity leave. Was Clare being like? I'm going to protect you Aaron by myself. I was afraid to do this beforehand, but now I know no matter what I do is going to be to protect you and I don't know I feel like her reconciling with Charlie so soon after that happened just does not jut well in my plan that this this idea that especially as a parent of like inviting someone problematic yet well seeming back into your life so quickly after that, and for no really discernible reason from a character perspective, other than what you're sad that Libyan analysts are dead. A large leap for me and it does not make me look at clarinet in good regard. I think it's a little sloppily written. But what are you GonNa? Do I I really love for as performance here in delivering the Libyan. He's right, because incredible he he has worn the more underrated better performances of the episode between like the clip we heard before they're both dead and then here with having to deliver the monologue. She probably helped a lot of people she helped. Helped me like so gutting end. You know you do wonder like okay. Wide does early have to go here with Michael either emotional reaction much like Michael wanted from Hurley especially when he says it's not fair. This happened to her. It's not I. Think he's seeking to like. Get some recompense on then a pound for pound desert were, and that helps Michael because that's one off the list off the list, and then we get a little tease of the return of Desmond. At the end, so yeah, what the what the? Elizabeth just lies Berry Libby. We see another on the horizon wrote. That she used to own. where she buried, and you can see a little bit. In the bowels of the ship all right, we'll get into the others, and all your feedback in just a moment, but first. Let's thanks some friends of the Pie. Castles or friends over progressive support for today's episode comes from Progressive Insurance, fun fact, progressive customers qualify for an average of six discounts when they sign up for progressive auto insurance discounts for things like enrolling an automatic payments, ensuring more than one car going paperless, and of course being a safe driver plus customers who bundled their auto with home or add renter's insurance save an average of twelve percent on their auto. There's so many ways to save when you switch and. And once your customer with progressive, you can get unmatched claim service with twenty four seven support online, or by phone. It's no wonder why more than twenty million drivers trust progressive invited recently climbed the third largest auto insurer in the country, so get a quote online at Progressive Dot Com in as little as five minutes and see how much you could be saving auto insurance from progressive, casualty, Insurance Company and affiliates Home Renter's insurance, not available in all states provided in service by affiliated in third party insurers discounts vary, and are not available in all states and situations Mike Bloom. Did you say five minutes or three minutes I said? I don't know I don't know where I am anymore. All right. Let's talk about the let's talk about the here. Let's go behind the scenes here. The beechcraft cliff. Did, I asked if the beechcraft quick was a set, or did you ask no I did I asked whether or not it's a real specifically of like the White Vine Wall was a natural piece of. Furniture if it was a piece of the landscape, or if it was something constructed for the set, and luckily we've had some follow up on. This are right, so it's it's relocation in the May Have Valley at the other end of who from Honolulu, it's not far from the waterfall from whatever the case may be slow. Go easy on the conic in that context. So this this is from Rob Perrin who has some information on rob. PARENT BLOCKS DOT COM. We will. We will link to that in our show notes. Let's get into the feedback. From Stefan Janssen's Dupont Johnson wants to know. How could have gotten been out without killing Andalucia Mike we about the Captain Planet Powers that he could've turned him into plants and smuggled them out that way. I didn't realize that was one of Captain Planet's Towers Yeah I. Don't know that is or if that was just parody video or not. I'm pretty sure assistant returning. What could he have seriously done? Does He. Just have to own up to. You have to trust in his people enough. What's the move here? I. Mean Yes, so I guess the the only hole in not killing is that if he knocks her out then she comes to and his Michael knocked me out unless he does a thing like he just stay with lock where he does the whole like website. Drop something, knock on the back of the head. Be Like oh a slipped in bumps her head on the counter twice in one week. What the Hell's going on I don't know. Know How much suspicion and what have for Michael to begin with, because I think that of all people ended would not suspect Michael of releasing Ben. I don't know. Maybe that's because of the mood that was in at that point. I mean she's told by collect. Yeah, go ahead and kill Ben so I don't think she would necessarily think that he'd be the first person to free under the meat. Man Underwrites in. How does no one but? Suspicious of the incredibly sketchy story pertaining to what happened in the hatch and Michael SPA plan wouldn't there be blood in the brig to that kind of went unaccounted for earth. Is anyone not questioning the notion that Michael wants to come on the mission and in all honesty. Why does Michael even feel the need to lie about all this? How about he just tells Jack what happened from the start? Yes, so let's take that second point because I do agree that I think that it's surprising. That is the only person to doubt the story, but I think at the same time. I wonder how many people excuse Michael is like this is his son. L. Like Michael is a very unique position right now in that he is the only parent on the island outside of sons child in Utero. He has sort of Cardi can play of like you don't know what it's like to have a child and be sick for them every night and do everything to get them back, so you can serve. Hold that above their heads, but just talk to me about the situation. What Michael Does Tell Jack like. Hey I was approached by the others told I need to bring you four people exactly to them. What do they just say no to that? Because I come up with some sort of surmounted plan, but because the plan is going to fail to begin with, and they do that in some sort of active way, it's very likely that the others do something terrible to wall. Yeah I mean that that could be a thing, but at the same time like live together die alone again. These people know that they're being set up for a trap yet. They still go well. Absolutely could've athletes the other stone. Yeah, but they're gonNA find out and they're still going to go in the middle of the Germany. They're not going to turn back and go home so I do wonder like what the? The trouble is just telling them ahead of time. It just gives them a bit more preparation as to okay, let's plan something to happen. You know Michael wasn't necessarily told like. Hey, bring these people, but you can't tell them anything that happened because I don't want to spoil the surprise, and also because the writers don't necessarily know what they're needed for yet so I. DO wonder like coming clean to jacket this moment. Moment it could also be sort of absolve that guilt, though I think we've also spoken about how Michael Understandably has this attitude of just keep driving forward and once you get to walt. It would have hopefully all this from Linde Steiner I. Think this is Great Lindy says I. Really Fuel Michael of the past because he's putting this terrible position of having to do everything the other say if he wants to see. See Walt again because they have complete control over the situation but I don't feel bad for Michael and the present because of the terrible things he did. It's weird disconnect I. think that's the thing with Michael Dawson is a character. Is there is the strange disconnect because we have history with him, and we can feel for him and I think that the episode as a really great job of establishing why he. Like a like, showing us like the extent of what he's going through, and yet he, he just killed two people. So, who are you feeling bad for? Some of us, anyway I can't help but feel bad for him, so it's it it is this strange thing where you find yourself working yourself into knots trying to come up with I don't know rationale or just like feeling horrible about everything that's going on with Michael I. Think Wendy really hits the main of that. But this is comparable to me than to some of the other flashbacks. It experience with these characters. Sawyer for example has killed a man before, but we have similarly felt like this weird twinge for him, because we know what he's motivated by, and how the remorse that he feels for it. Kate burnt a man alive in his house, but she had her reasons behind it. That's the beauty of lost in my opinion is that you do have characters who do up horn things on paper immoral things, but everything is in gray, and everything has a motivation to it and to that. I say Michael now. Sort of his joins that that gallery people who do bad things but maybe. S. Tough. It's tough stuff. I've krause, but that the glue down bro John Writes. Why are the others pretending to be cavemen? What are they getting out of it other than shits and gigs. All. I hope they're getting gigs because they're acting there. How is this the other? It's so full of people. It's gotTa suck when you hear that you have to leave your air conditioned house for a few days on the Simon just to trick one hapless dude from a plane crash. And this is a good point because we know that Ben can be spiteful with his assignments right like he is the worst guy to have in charge of the Chore Wheel Because He doesn't like you, you're going be on the newer. Do we think that these people in Ben's absence are they like the bottom rung of the are these the top tier people like it's clearly had a lot of faith in people like miss clue and Tom Friendly, but are these the entry level positions are now sort of given the interns work of like. Yeah, you know being in being other is great, but when you enter you, do have to do some grunt work like dress up like caveman and go to this place on the bringing. It's tough. Yeah, it's Steph Way. You're working your way up the ranks by having to be stuck here. Caitlyn ash rates in US so where the hell was Bernard during the funeral, there were two survivor surviving Taylor, and neither of them showed up for the Taylor Funeral. Spare we know what echoes up to He's trying to save the World Bernard. What's Bernard's excuse? Well, we know that I think Bernard just had a lot of. Sensitivity, because he knows. If he went to the funeral, all we could hear would not be beautiful eulogy from Hurley but this. CAMPA. You. Excuse me, someone, please stop meowing. I'm trying to get on his funeral. Right now. No. No, no! We have not seen Bernard since him, and rose, apparently went off in the jungle with a bottle of wine. So for all we know that secretary. Days on end yeah yeah. Thing, STU- happening all right, let's take some questions about how about question mark. This from Eric Davis. Stein, who says I disagree with the presented theory that the Pearl may be what it claims to be because that was my take, if it were and the stack of unread notebook tubes had only accumulated since the purge, and that would mean the pro workers had survived for years after the purge, which doesn't make sense to me because they only do eight hour shifts. They don't live there likely to parole. Workers died in the purge. Purge or if they survived, they would have no reason to continue their work because they would know. Dharma is gone as soon as their shift ended, which leads me to the conclusion that even before the purge no one was reading. Are Collecting those notebooks, so the pro workers are the rats in the maze with no cheese. Ben Martell has counterpoint to that, and says well maybe Ben Linus. His favorite hobby is to just go shove notebooks into dramatic tubes. Ben Is Truly an agent, but that makes them feel like. I don't know I feel like he's an instrument of measure I. Mean You know are on an island? And, you've got access to pneumatic tubes or you not screwing around with the pneumatic tubes. But I. Don't know if you're. They're a ton of notebooks that you could roll up shoves the pneumatic tube. I don't know. Maybe you put like you're I. Mean First of all you. Definitely. Why are? Good, that's. Why do you think ben has out for Carl so much? It's because. And Alex keeps sneaking away to the Pearl. Shoving marble notebooks into the pneumatic tubes in Ben's like this. I like that keeps playing with my pneumatic tubes. Yes their way of screwing with them, and they had to like clean it out last night after a bunch of bad. Like clogged up, ask you I. Also wonder if you ever find like a one armed other. You better believe that they lost their arm because they put her. Arm was shoved into the pneumatic tube. Yeah the smoking showed up took the form of somebody. Would put Montana I had that. We don't forget to keep saying the word pneumatic tubes as we go deeper into down. The hatch is feels like something that could definitely disappear and I. Don't want it to be sucked into the proverbial pneumatic tube. And dumped out. Field of missed pneumatic tube reference opportunities. I don't think so. I think most maybe when we say if we do away with the story line or like do away with a theory. Matic Tube and sending it off into. This Room Ryan Stanley Ryan. Says, what do you think would have happened? If instead of boon climbing into the plane and dying he and lock bounds the Pearl Station now, having found out about the swan station yet, how would they react to this? And how would they react to seeing desmond showing in the hatch? Would they connect the dots that he's inside the hatchet? They've been trying to open. Great Question Hopefully Desmond's just chilling in the hatch. A lot of other things could be going on down there. What we're thinking though you know when when a day sex mocking happens when Desmond's is low right because that's GonNa that night, it's gonna be locked begging on the hatch door, and Desmond, shining the light his way, so it's GonNa. Be You know a pretty big night for him? And he's definitely at his lowest. They just be watching some guy slumming it but as As, we remember early was the only person to accurately predict that there was like an actual living room down there, so I can honestly see them. Be like. Wow, they're watching over subjects. This is on the island somewhere. I could very much see them not realize that that's actually in the place. They're looking to music analysis broom Jim Fells your analysis Mike Bloom. My analysis of gyms analysis. ooh, there's so much going on. Jim theorizes that three minutes and live together die alone serves as a turning point for launching from Michael Jiechi no were basically things become more action-oriented and louder and brassier, instead of a little more like contemporary stringy, perhaps to symbolize the fact that you know especially with season three is going to become more of a war, and maybe less of like a quiet character study, but there's a lot of stuff that comes up here, so we were talking about the Michael Typing seen. There's a couple things about this besides Michael Typing skills or lack thereof. I is as Michael's typing. There are two motifs that play together. One is the main theme to symbolize eight one five, and then there is a Ben Motif that is going to be one of his foundational motifs. That's really gonNA use initially to represent the others, but then it's going to really become a part of Ben to the point where when he has that infamous scene in the end with John about not wanting to enter the church that like very soft version of that plays instead of what we get here, but it's a great symbol of like the duality that Michael's under young at this point of who do I support, but that's also produces what Jim feels calls and urgency motif. Were we hear this a bunch of times especially, in Finales for example when we find the bomb on the freighter, and there's no place like home when the flight touches down at the landing strip in stay. A couple of times in the incident between transporting site in the Dharma van and Poor Juliet getting dragged down by the chain into the pair it. All sort of companies it so I think we basically have a new musical motif that says people are in trouble. They need to get the I. I like that I would love for that to be an official terminology. In the show. On, go right well. Let's get the F. into some MVP LV VP scores. Or and into the twenty three points got three MVP's I've got to I've got three L. VP's. You've got to kick us off. Where we go in here with these MVP's. I mean. We gotTA. Start with Silja. Site yes, well. I figured episode, aware and understandable amount of characters either lack judgment, or just not talking with one another. It is the connector like he's the one who sees through all this. He Brings Jack in on this plan, and as one of the people who vocally seized through Michael's be asked. To give it to them here because he's in the right this entire episode he got it. Solved the crime. He figured it out out in a hand. Like. A one interaction he figured out that also ties into this second person. I'm going to get him MVP. P. Point to who might have similarly done so I'm going to give it to echo purely due to the fact that someone needs. Keep pressing the button because everyone was everyone duty. How Go! Yeah had not been down there. They would have faced a live together. Die Alone situation much sooner rather than later. So I'm giving it to echo here for going through to his duty and. August my second MVP point to miss clue. For the reasons I outlined earlier. She's just very very effective at doing very mean thing. Is Very effective warping Michael's mind. It's not good. It's bad, but I think it's worse than MVP point and should then be wiped off the board at some point and season. Yeah, and she gets killed. Your career opportunities to get on this point, but I'm going to give a point out of civil with the other to Tom Friendly because of great. Team. It's so freaking good and I was very close to giving a point to Vincent for being the one to help Guy Charlie, but a last visit still eludes us in the MVP. That's crazy. We'll just have to give him. All of our MVP points in the finale. No one else gets one. All Right L. VP I'm talking series. Of course L. VP's. Let's continue with the others. We, gave to others MVP, somebody. Take One away from picket I hate him I. Hate Him and much clue. This'll be another beginning of like a not a beautiful story, but we'll be seeing. More? Glue we are very likely going to give her an LV point for dying and enter seven seven in that's it with picket I think this is the start of a guy who's going to wind up in the red. This guy is going to get a bunch and things over the course of the next several episodes, and even in this episode it's about him being an asshole that he was got caught literally with his fly down. Like how do you do that like Mike Imagine was not creating like being so surreptitious that you wouldn't be able to hear him he he got caught flat-footed. You'RE NOT GONNA cancel. All right I'm going to give I'm going to talk a point from Michael. Hair look it, says nothing about Herald Pernod's performance, who I think was absolutely outstanding in this episode, especially in sound number six that we played, but the fact of the matter is, he is leading them into a trap, and he's not doing a great job keeping all of. Great or getting everyone on the same page like I got. No I was very close to giving him MVP point because Harold. Perrineau is so good in this episode, but I cannot I cannot get in the way of this I cannot negate your actions just as we cannot forget Michael's actions understandable, though they may be explainable as they may be, they're not justifiable. They are not good. And I can't even give him props for being very good at doing something very bad because he's doing very bad job about lying to everybody. With that being said, I will give Lv Points Dr Jack All Doc Jack. Because! He should not be signing onto any mission based solely on okay. Michael doesn't want to go. Society doesn't go interrogate that a little bit. Jack it's. You want sites participation in this. Raise your eyebrows a little dude right now. The prank planned it. Was Sad think that's bad of Doctor Jack. I. Spent a lot of air talking about why I'm not a fan of her in this episode, but. As much as I hate it, I gotta give an MVP point declared just because maybe it's more so adopt on the writers for release speeding up this Charlie Clare storyline to have it fit into the finale, but. Just just seems like a rush choice and I'll give my final LV peop- point to heroin. see you laugh. Before. When was cabinet thousand but heroin dies in this episode so. Like, give The points to characters that die heroin dies. There's no more heroin on the island so. Yes luckily enough, so yeah, I guess that I don't know heroines GonNa Heroines, upcoming negative, five negative five, still not the bottom ranked of. Season two still charlie, currently with negative six G Cormack Stupid Jason. McCormick at a negative six. And heroin has just tied with Wayne. Negative five so. Heroin and Wayne are in three way tie are in a two way tie for third place in the L. VP category going into the finale Mr Echo with the point from you. Rises to fifteen points total over the course of season two or incite aid goes from ten to twelve with your MVP point in my empty point, so it's it's tight and I can imagine the an area where sites scores some MVP points next week and echo could an LV people basically blowing himself up? So. This this is. It's a tight race. At the end, it's an it's a nail biter surprising when we said halfway through the season of like. When we were injured in the Taylor is an echo kept getting points back to back to back. We're like Oh. Yeah, this is definitely echoes I mean midseason. He liked disappeared a bit and site. You'd really come through his place, so yeah. It became a bit of a horse race. Unfortunately not a horse race for the woman who saw a horse once upon a time. One of our other MVP contenders from season one. Kate has really rattled and season two and you know we're going to have a feedback show in a couple of weeks, and that's actually one thing that I would love to hit upon is what they did with cates in this season, and how it contrasts so much from. The leaderboard as it stands through this episode, so from the jump to this episode Saieed has a commanding lead of twenty-one points, then echoes in second place with fifteen right now Jack over all at Twelve Hurley is in fourth with eleven and Kate, who had been the leader for so much season one is at ten point, so that's our top five baby and the next closest are the Kwan's at seven point five apiece. That's where we're standing. We'll see how the finale impacted I'm interested I think Desmond's shirt score points John Locke. Is already not on great footing both the story and our leaderboard. He's at two points over all. In the in the. There's a good chance at least ice hockey hiking hiking. Season Two for sure, so we'll see if he's able to pick up. which are the which I think is actually very I. Don't know I don't want to set it up already because we haven't watched the episode I think that'd be very indicative of luck to you. He does a lot of good and he. I think would fit. All Right? Let's go and talk about the four point. Two Stars the episode rankings here. Brennan Fitzpatrick great friend of the podcast handles. The socials Poche recaps thinks that three minutes might be the best penalty episode of Lost Mike, and I disagree that you and I are united in our thought that greatest hits is the Best Ben Alternate. Episode lost and then I. Think you and I probably diverge in thinking I think three minutes is probably the second best. You are I. Think Lower on this episode I. Yes so I'll give my rating I because it is the lower one, so I'll be the main. Criticize here because we'll I. DO Agree I think the Michael Walt scene is heartbreaking. I think the flashbacks overall outside of that scene are. Fine, I think especially knowing in retrospect. The front that the others are putting up. It's not terribly interesting to see the raw Xuan of it all. We spoke about how seeing the other side of the events of the hunting party really isn't A. This, this happened what eleven episodes ago like I don't know how much mystery is worth re-litigating. Feel like there were like a few good scenes in this episode and everything else was fine to not very good I I just thought it was not exactly an enjoyable episode to watch where it felt like we were sort of seeing the same stuff. Happen again. Character for making some frustrating choices that while understandable were not exactly. Enjoyable, to watch, even compared to an episode like born to Ron at that's very similar where characters do frustrating things and we. We went down on. Understandably that being said I'm not nearly as down on this as I am on born to run board when I think I gave like two point four. This is at least a three to me. And it was sort of comparing other episodes dialect around the range of it, so I was looking at of like the whole truth and maternity. Leave and everybody hates you go. And so I ended up going with a three point two for this where I think it's below the level of a pretty good episode of loss, but there's enough enjoyable stuff in it that we have litigated to make it an interesting the way to go into the finale. If not outright I think this is a great episode of Lost I. Think Harold Perrineau delivers an incredible performance. I think that that scene with him in wall is so brutal. End Does so much work in getting you to the place where Michael is emotionally and mentally I think. Watching Michael Reconcile with what he's done or attempt to. Is just it's. It's it's brutal. I think a lot of it depends on your connection to that character, and I feel very connected to that character, because feel very connected to the actor. So I think that helps it, but I think outside of that. You've got some next level sites raw moments. You've got a next level Mr Echo story when he talks about the. and the dog who's waiting for him in Hell is just awful to consider you get an incredible Jorges Garcia performance. You get a really powerful scene, and certainly, when it's very powerful for me in in Charlie's throwing the heroine away. So I think that there is a lot that's great. Hearing bills, the episode, and the the final run up to the finale, with such a sense of urgency that born to run did not do and I. Don't know that the other penalty episodes will accomplish to this level. I'm very open to having my mind. Yeah well, I think the thing is I. Think the point fifty was making his initial point was like everyone has a moment. No I would disagree as that everyone has a moment, but they're not necessarily good moments but i. do feel like this is still deployment losses embracing. It's ensemble right, and so they wanted each character. Have its moment in the episode. I think from Huron. Now. What the show is going to figure out is okay. We're GONNA concentrate our episodes on a few characters, instead of here's a big group getting itself united around the events of the finale, so I think that the scope of what three minutes aims four will not be met, and then the other so I keep three minutes of three point eight last week. I gave. A three point seven and I said that I'm really just following the lead, if the numbers there and I probably feel higher about question mark than an actual three point seven I think that I feel about the same about question mark in three minutes I think. Already. Give my actual score for question. Mark would probably be three point eight, so I'll give you my actual score for three minutes I. think that those two episodes hand in hand worked really well to set us up for live together. Die Alone. So I'm a three point. Eight Mike, three point to the audience is smack DAB in the middle between us with a three point five so between the three point eight to three point two from Mike and the three point five from the audience that gives us a three point. Four nine three minutes is top twelve twelve best episode just behind the Hunting Party. I think ironically enough. So that that works for me. Yes literally behind the scenes, the hunting party, but yeah, I mean I, think are are spectrum of opinions. I think is represented in the ratings as well. I think the most of them sort of range from where we sort of ended up from the low. Threes I. I've seen like a four a four point one and I've seen as low as a two point nine as well, so yeah I didn't like as much as I might. Nick pick this episode. I don't think it's bad of is like Dave or God help us fire, plus water or a drift. Bre left me personally wanting a little bit, but again lost. has so many different takeaways from things so that being said. I'm intrigued to see where we're going next week. Because I know that we are going into live together, die alone, which as I said before. It's personally my least favorite finale, but that being said I would say I'm not probably not going to give it a four point. It. Out to live together. Die Alone supersized episode two hour episode. Oh my God. We've been doing so well. Keep it around two and a half hours. Are we going to be able to do it next week I? Think maybe a loner feedback section is probably we're thinking especially because. We will have a full season to feedback show that will follow live together. Die Alone as we take our usual break in between seasons to kind of just like stopdown, assess wherever you are before crews on ahead to season three so next week it's going to be our last episode recap for a couple of weeks, so get that feedback in get it in by the morning of July first. This episode is dropping on July third fireworks. From the from the hatch just gonNA explode the. Yeah Oh boy. Yeah, don't get too near those fireworks, or you'll get a lot of crazy stuff happening, but I I cannot believe I mean listen twenty twenty has been a handful, and then some and I remember when we were talking with Jack from crazy. Hang TV, but we did our season two. When we did live together, DIE ALONE RECAP! It's like Oh, we'll get to this in July and so much has happened in the world, and in this podcast feels a bit surreal to actually get to the end of season two after everything that has happened in the world of lost and in the world is continuing on. I really thought that I was probably. Four episodes of the podcast and then like I as often happens I'd be like what's that anything there? But no, we're still here. We're still here and I don't think we're going anywhere unless to world. That's other plans for us so. Not good with that. It doesn't get that feedback in. down. Post show RECAPS DOT com. You can also tweet at us at pusher recaps. I'm at round Howard Mike. Is that a Mike Bloom type subscribe? If you have not done so already, ratings and reviews kindly appreciated Mike Bloom. What do you got going on outside of all this? Trying to figure out a tattoo that I'm getting. We're next week. I believe is when we are having this election process, so it'll be a finale. In many ways I guess the premier in that regards in my new survivor based Tattoo, but spoiler alert for those that have not listened a loss theme Tattoo is in the mix for the possible tattoos. There might be a link to this podcast yet and speaking of new adventures. Josh regular know that you have begun on one that lets you pull out your own inner cited Gironde figuring out who? Who is pulling? Okay, so here's what's up, so Mike and I are part of the top chef judges table over it. Reality TV wrap-ups top chef just wrapped up wrapped up its most recent season that crew. We're trying to figure out a way to keep the podcast. Fun going, so we're going to skip this week, but we will have a podcast over reality TV perhaps for you next week talking about not just future of top chef, but the future of that podcast. We want to keep going. But I am active over at reality. TV wrap ups right now as I have just embarked on mole patrol, which is a a throwback podcast season. One of the mole with Myself Jessica lease and Brooklyn's Brooklyn said big prolific listener of loss down the hatch, and the reason. We are doing this mole podcast. They were in my mentions relentlessly over the last several months saying. Hey, you gotta watch them all. Hey, you got to watch them all hey! Hey you gotta watch them on I'd already wanted to watch them all things being what they are feels like a good time to go back and revisit some throwback television, and or my case visit for the first time because I've never watched the mole I. Know Nothing, do not spoil me. I swear do not spoil me. I will virtually Negi you so hard I will I will cut you out. You will be gone. ooh, what's what's the motoring? Fist. if that could be confused as punching you in the head and I don't WanNa. Do that Nogi. But no, no good. Do not spoil me on anything with the mole, but if you have if you've watched the mole, or if you've never watched them all great opportunity to get in on the fun, we already have our preview of season one. That podcast is available over at reality TV wrap ups, and it's a fun show. I think it's going to be a really fun. Ride I had such a good time during the first episode. And we are going to be doing that every week. That's going to be and I think we're aiming for Wednesday mornings every week. We're going to have a different episode recap, and it's fully spoiler free and probably provocative in suggestive for those of you. Who Know what is actually happening on the show. If you re watching, it's a check out that podcast here on poster recaps. We got more going on as well Kevin Mahogany Oh and I are nearing the end of phase. Two of the marvel cinematic, universe. Everything is super are rewatch of the marvel. Cinematic Universe continues this week with the vendors Voltron, so that's coming your way this weekend. and beyond that AJ mass, and I have some light podcasting about dark very heavy show over on Netflix. The final season is dropping this weekend in sometime next week. Aj going to be getting together to do a full binge podcast about. About the final season of dark, so keep an ear out for that also keep an ear out by continuing on with this podcast. You'RE GONNA. Listen at the very end of this thing to a teaser for prime video presents. It's that podcast from Amazon. We will be back next week with our recap of live together. Die Alone the season two finale of loss take care. bye-bye! Leave. Sixty. Eight sixty. Four made. To. Six. Fold! Welcome to prime video presents the first ever podcast series from Amazon Prime Video? My name is Tim cash, and I'm proud to admit that I'm a massive fan. And if you're listening to this podcast, the white meat you probably message TV, Fan as well and if you not stick around, because we call some incredible interviews coming up. Lucky for me. I built an entire career around talking about television so I get to watch a lot of it seriously named show season, even episode, and probably seen it. We such day and interviewed the cost. On this podcast I'm pulling back the curtain on some of your favorite Hamas originals and uncovering stories behind your favorite stories. Each episode I'll sit down with the cost and craters from shows like the marvelous Mrs. Mazo transparent and the boys and ask about all the important pieces that go into making TV's greatest moments. Moments between action and cut they are this crucible for utter joy, utter surprise I always wanted people to feel a little bit off kilter from that moment for and so I wanted to declare the rule. You know that there really are no rules in the show. Was One of those things you can either fail big, or you succeed big, but there's no middle road. Join me beginning June twenty second for what is sure to be any TV, favourite new podcast crime video presents. Subscribe for free on Apple PODCASTS spotify. Listen. So much, Term.