16 Episode results for "Susan Cox"

Wake Up, Little Susie

Cold

1:04:54 hr | 2 years ago

Wake Up, Little Susie

"The podcast discusses domestic violence criminal behavior. Murder and adult themes while not explicit. Listener discretion is advised. Josh was cash strapped and still carrying debt from his time with his ex girlfriend, Catherine he had about a thousand dollars in savings, but owed about four hundred dollars a month just to cover his debts. He was working for Virk. Oh, the same company is his dad, but was afraid of being fired. In spite of this. He insisted on holding dinner parties at his apartment in Tacoma, hosting friends from church people come over to my house and instead of eating what I'm offering them. They look in my freezer. Oh, I wanna make orange juice to go with dinner, and I want to put this with our dinner eventually when they start doing that it gets extremely expensive to have these dinners. And so I felt like that has been a burden that I can't take that is Josh's actual voice saved on a hand held audio recorder. Josh decided these dinners were important in spite of the cost one in particular changed the course of the rest of his life. That's because a young woman just weeks pastor nineteenth birthday attended her. Name was Susan Cox, Joshua just recently met Susan at institute. That's a religion class for college age. Members of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. He had been competing for her attention with a mutual friend. But was the moralize and intended to give up the chase. When the food was done that night. Josh asked his guests for help doing the dishes. Susan volunteers that doing dishes together with very moment. She decided. And for me doing dishes with her. Turning point for me when I thought. It's not over. They shared their first kiss that night Susan later road. That's when she knew Josh was the one. Josh had hit the jackpot. He had tried and tried and tried for years to get any girl to give him the time of day. Sometimes I feel like I can't reach any girls anywhere that for some reason or another they won't give me the chance to even go out with them. Susan was different. She kinda thought Josh was hot. He was smart to in how does own place and even a motorcycle. He was a latter day Saint like, she was and appeared to live the churches standards. I want to remind myself for the future. I knew I been incredibly blast because. Because. We. Willingness to pay my timing. It also helped that Josh was five years older than Susan in more mature than the guys her age or so she seemed to think she meant Josh well on the rebound from the break. The couple marked November eleventh two thousand as the start of their relationship for their first official date. They went to see the movie the perfect storm and then eat sandwiches from subway. They talked about getting married from that very day. I loved this girl. Susan cox. Every day. I love her more and become more and more certain that I want to be with her. So I'm slow to warm up. Taking me a while to tovia alive. That I do want to be with her forever. Forever. This is cold episode to wake up little Susie. I'm Dave collie. Real quick. You're going to hear a lot in this podcast from Josh's sister, Jennifer graves, she wrote a book about her experiences, titled a light in dark places. I mentioned that because in this episode in particular, you are going to see some of that darkness up close. I'm putting it under a spotlight in order to reveal truth just stick with me. Susan wasn't long out of high school when she met. Josh she'd started studying cosmetology at the gene Juarez academy of beauty just eight days after graduation. Josh had actually encountered Susan before gears before but claimed not to have realized it the day they met at a church institute class it happened when Josh was eighteen and a high school senior he had followed his dad from Spokane to Puyallup after his parents divorce. That's where he met Susan's older Sister, Mary he went to the Cox house and saw Susan for the first time she was twelve so we had met at her house. And she remembered me as the person who came over and played piano. She was much too young. Relatively speaking. For me to continue dating. I think that I think that I looked at her. She is really cute to batch Hughes. Too young. Josh and Susan were not an obvious match when they met again in October of two thousand they had few common interests aside from each being a member of the church of Jesus Christ latter-day saints and knowing some American sign language Susan's friends wondered what she saw in Josh his feelings for her seemed self-centered, I think that she is incredibly beautiful. And. A lot of that is because of the way she treats me the way she takes care of me and my house she comes in here. And she is the one person. That I can feel comfortable with in my house. She'll. Start doing the dishes or. Something. Just because she is standing there for a minute. And. She doesn't have anything else to do. And I know that this is a real part of her. And it's important to me to have someone who is who takes care of me, and my stuff, and and our space together that was not the only thing Josh liked about Susan for one. She had clean credit as I mentioned earlier, Josh racked up some serious debt in his early twenty s in the past. It seems like I've had the goal of have more. Now have a computer now have. A TV in VCR and all these things now. And forget about the future Delray about fading money. It's okay to go into debt. I've I went into get pretty heavily. Josh recently enrolled at the university of Washington Tacoma business school and needed to find about fifteen hundred bucks to cover tuition, he failed to qualify for any kind of scholarship or financial aid. So he took out a student loan. Susan worked hard she started her days at seven thirty AM at the cosmetology school, cutting and coloring hair, then she headed to her second job at the JC. Penney jewelry counter she worked there until late in the evening. I walk her to make. Every bit as much money as she possibly can. And. Receive every complement and tip for her hair, cutting and a procedure. She does. I love my sweet Susan to feel good about herself. Because she deserves to she has a right to because she is good shortly after Christmas. Josh went to visit Susan and her work, he told her he wanted to buy a gift for his mom. Susan showed him a number of rings. He found one he liked and asked her to buy it for him using her employee discount. The ring wasn't for Josh's mom. It was Susan's engagement ring. I don't want her to have the most expensive looking ring in the world. I don't want her to have a big rock to attract someone who would want to hurt her her or mug. Together. I just want her to have. A modest rain with the best quality diamond, I can possibly find. Something that will tell her that. I loved her. Without necessarily. Acting like a magnet for the tension of the world wrong attention from the world. They'd been dating less than two months. On the evening of January fifth two thousand one Susan wind Josh's apartment after work as she always. Did he met her outside and covered? Her is by wrapping a t shirt around her head, then he led her into the apartment. Once inside Josh took off the blindfold. Susan saw a dozen white roses in a crystal vase, a large drawing of the church of Jesus Christ latter-day saints Portland. Temple leaned against Josh's futon, the one he'd bought while living with his ex girlfriend, Catherine the churches him families can be together. Forever. Played softly on the stereo. Josh sat Susan down on the food town next to the picture being careful to keep everything framed perfectly for the camcorder that was worrying quietly in the corner. He borrowed that from his dad. He asked Susan to read one of the church's scriptures doctrine and covenants chapter one thirty two verse nineteen and again, they're Li I say unto you if a man Mary a wife by my word, which is my law and by the new and ever lasting covenant. It was a production for the camera and it wasn't done next. Josh, read Susana poem. He had written in nineteen ninety four when he was eighteen. Marriage is for the most in love for two. So deeply in love. They become the love they so within each other marriage can only suffice me when always true love, waxes when her greatest love, and she is solely for me in me solely for her. Okay. Okay. It wasn't Shakespeare in fact, it was barely poetry. But Josh was working up to something. He Neil been presented Susan with the ring that she had bought using her discounted work. He had paid her back, by the way, I leaned inter. At her name. Very. This. And then we then we Josh and Susan were engaged their friends were concerned. So we're Susan's parents when they get married into the temple I called the Bishop I said to, you know, also individual brick here. And you know, I don't think they understand what it means to have been married for time at all attorney in what the valves are going to take. I don't think they understand it. They said, well, it's important. I feel it's said, okay. Well, you're the Bishop but still just lets, you know, I don't think this is right. Something's not quite right here. Susan spent every waking moment either at work or with Josh she'd head to his apartment at the end of her shift, and then often fall asleep there her parents didn't realize what was happening at first because Susan was living with her sister. Mary at the time. Chuck Cox, finally figured it out. Collar. Hello, Josh differs, the Chuck. She's at this phone number. You have a baby if you can call back or come over Joe she can talk to a bar. She wants to talk to her by herself. Cubit say talk you later. Thanks. Bye. Susan confessed she'd all but moved in with the boyfriend she had only known for weeks. I told my down that I've been basically living with you might be fair Yati Afrin. I said quite case on the couch. Like, yeah. So he doesn't know that buddy Dame there in that. I don't want to live a hair because there's the bitch unwelcome this caused Susan's. Parents a lot of heartburn that she would get home at twelve thirty or one o'clock, but she drive home alone. I mean, it wasn't a he was gonna watch hope to take she would just leave later and finally get home. I said, well, that's not a good thing to do. Let your your fiancee be traveling home late at night and unescorted all that kind of stuff. He's just he didn't care. Josh didn't see a problem with it. And the concept of curfews not familiar to me because I normally don't have a curfew. I've never really had a curfew. Josh's sister. Jennifer told me that growing up Josh had done pretty much whatever he wanted that attitude carried over into his. Dating life boundaries. There are no boundaries. Jennifer was living in Utah. But started to hear about Susan from Josh. So I just had a high hopes, you know, she came from a good LDS family that her parents seem very good in in. I just thought maybe this is it maybe they'll he'll be all right? He'll be all right. Because he is he's got her now in he'll want to improve for her. What guy doesn't wanna put forth the effort and improve in be the best. He can be for an awesome woman. And Susan was great. Josh new Susan's parents were less enthused. But figured he could win them over. It would seem that her dad likes me for the most part. It seems that her mom is starting to like me as well. Although she's been slower to warm up. You look at it. And if you tell your daughter, no, that's exactly what she's got to go for. So we didn't do that. But. It was just so ridiculous to us the Bill the can't say stay away from him unemployed side he had an apartment of his own that he was paying for. He had a job, and he was going to college. So seeing. Okay. Not my best idea. But maybe he's got something going. We don't see Josh pressed for a quick marriage in March or April and soon as they could receive clearance to have the ceremony performed in the Portland temple and Susan has been hesitant. She's like why are we thought of an engagement as being nine months or a year? That seems awful fast. Josh had Susan on the hook. He wasn't going to let her escape the way his ex girlfriend, Catherine had just as he had done with Catherine. He started spending Susan's money she paid for new parts for his computer among other things. Been putting out a lot of money on some lightly. I haven't really had the money to do it. And I need a computer to live to get my classes done. So she's been helping me out with some of Susan's generosity. Caught the attention of Josh's sister, Jennifer, the boundaries weren't quite why they needed to be at that point to to help. Josh realize that boundaries needed to continue like he was starting to get that going back moving in with my mom going back to church cleaning up his act. A little bit seemed like he was starting to get that realize that you can't do everything you want to in your life. You know, you've got a you've got to live within some rules. There were even bigger warning signs at the end of February Josh and Susan prepared to submit their marriage license, application copied one or two little things got started with her. And then she got mad at me. And she didn't want to be in the same room with. She wanted me to take her home. He didn't take her home. He puttered around the apartment while Susan seethed. Just like I have to take me home, and you did. She jumped up to our. Take her home. I kind of got her again. He at last conceited and started to drive her home, but not before making a stop. Josh drove Susan to a copy shop he left her to sit in the car alone. Well, he made the photocopies as really helping. She would get over mad at me. Done make copies. No. She was not Josh next drove to the post office where he nailed in their marriage paperwork in his journal, he attributed Susan's anger and his manipulative behaviour to a quote dark influence. Disturbance within. I just can't find. The nineteen returned in our. Marriage. Thankfully, not every argument. They had was quite so serious about whether or not which cake on each other's face at the wedding. And of course, we resolved not one by realizing that of course, we're going to the Kent Connie traffic pace. Okay. Susan doesn't seem to agree with that one. But she well, they married the afternoon of April sixth two thousand one in the Portland temple. It was the same place. Josh's sister, Jennifer had married. Her husband Kirk, the similarity was not lost on Jennifer. You know, that it's kind of interesting because I think there was some piece of Josh that really wanted. What I had. He could see that. I was in a better position in that. I had. Extracted myself from the family situation in found happiness and had moved on from the crap that we'd gone through Josh's own audio journals bear that out. He envied Jennifer stability and independence that I really want to emulate my sister's marriage. She has a wonderful situation with her husband, but the emulation started off pretty poorly. Josh was always running late, and that was a constant irritation to pretty much everyone around him. Trying to get him to move and in follow through with Steph in a timely manner. It was just a constant battle until so he was laid to money. Jennifer hadn't invited her dad Steve to her wedding. Josh made sure Steve was there for his wedding. But there was a problem. The church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints only allows members who are in good standing to enter its temples. That's true. Even for guests at temple, weddings. Now Steve Powell had long since given up on trying to live the religions rules. He tried to walk into the temple, but was turned away. In fact, none of Josh's siblings aside from Jennifer were able to witness the ceremony, they waited outside. So to Jennifer's three young kids. They were too young to enter the temple she worried. What might happen? I was left with a quite a bit of anxiety. Because I knew that who is going to be with my children outside my dad, and my sister who is under the influence of my dad Tebily and so. I said a lot of prayers. In left them for that very short time with them. Then I think you know face revived. They managed to make make it through mostly escaped. I think Jennifer reserved Josh and Susan a room on their wedding night at the hood river in it's a scenic spot on the south Bank of the Columbia River. It's where she in Kirk had spent their honeymoon. You turned out. Josh was more interested in playing with his camera than spending time with his wife Josh recorded his observations of that afternoon on his hand held voice recorder. He detailed the logistics of the day never once mentioning how he felt about being married or remarking about how beautiful his bride was. He just wanted to play with his dad's video camera captured a little bit of the drive just a cool life and shadow, and we got the polling up because the hotel shock and walking into our room. You're being around the hotel room and the view from hotel room the next day they were back in Puyallup for the reception. Susan didn't like to dance but feeling giddy and love she allowed her dad to drag her around the dance floor to the tune of wake up little Susie. Choice of song was apropos that was in reference to her coming home late at night. Sound asleep? Did you pick that song, by the way? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Try to say, hey, you know, you understand. It kind of kind of making fun of spy now. But whatever, but yeah, probably important, Saul. Tell you. Woke up a little sort of. Wake up Josh hovered over his dad's shoulder making sure he got video from all the right angles. Hold your hand up. Please. Okay. Great. My nails. Ring has two thousand that storage on it. It's cool. And. Great now, we will no longer looking at your fingers. We will look at you. So Josh and Susan entered their period of newlywed bliss. Josh believed it would last forever because most people don't have our friendship. We talk like most people don't talk in their marriage, even some people with incredible awesome. Marriages. They don't talk like we talk. We talk about everything. Josh's sister, Jennifer so differently. She noticed Susan tolerating her new husband's idiosyncrasies. I think there's you know, there's a little bit of a. You know, there's honeymoon phase where you're just you're willing to put up with a little bit more. Because you think well, you know, it'll go away. Right. It'll go away. Hopefully. But it doesn't Susan at all but moved into Josh's apartment before the wedding. But made the move official after they were wed. They were victims eight months later after getting into a dispute with the landlord Susan wrote about it in her journal. We did not trust renting and are paying off Josh's debts while he waits to take his last quarter in school for his bachelors in business management and get a job, and I credit to clean up. So we can get a loan for a house. I wanna has to call mine and come home to so I can prepare meals for Josh and clean decorate. They were in no financial position to buy a house. So Josh did what he often did when his life went wrong. He turned to his dad for help. Josh and Susan moved in with Steve Powell at the start of two thousand and two. The Powell family home didn't have enough bedrooms for Steve the other Powell boys. John and Michael as well as Josh and Susan they all coped as best. They could sectioning off a piece of the living room by hanging sheets as dividers. Life. There was not comfortable, Josh and Susan had very little privacy. Steve, John and Michael came and went at all hours making it difficult to get any sleep. Steve was ever present with his video camera. Susan was his favorite subject. Any women around here? So. It. So you get. Treat. Susan tolerated. Steve's filming she was usually friendly about it. Even if a little annoyed, but watching those videos now, she comes across as terribly naive. As a cosmetologist. She was pretty proud about how well she could wax one time. She showed Steve how smooth her legs were after waxing not understanding he perceived this as a tease. He. Pretty on at least one occasion, Susan thought. She saw a small mirror under a crack in the door while using the bathroom. Steve took every opportunity to needle Susan in an attempt to undermine her marriage. At one point Josh wanted to sell his futon Steve wondered aloud if Josh good rightfully do that considering he had bought it while living with his ex girlfriend, Catherine Susan wrote about that in her journal and realize she was considered a direct past owner of it or whatever so irritated me that he wanted to point that out Susan called it a dark time. She started to see Josh's faith was not strong. She wrote in her journal about the struggle of having to be the strong one. I know the gospel is true. I can't pretend it's not really that important and move onto more worldly things it came as a relief when by March they were back in their own place. Josh got a job at home. Uh-huh. Susan bought her first car, she got a raise at her job while Josh was fired from his they argued often we drive to our storage unit. I don't wanna waste beautiful sunny day digging around there, but Josh did one thing led to another. And I walked off two miles down the road before Josh cut up after an hour or so of discussion Josh got his way Josh finished his courses that June his dad attended the graduation ceremony. But spent more time videotaping Susan than he did his own son turn around this way. Okay. Just go while now turn back this week. Okay. Chuck and Judy Cox gave Josh cash and some camping supplies as a graduation gift. Josh bragged to his dad about it. They didn't give you money. Yeah. I don't know how they gave you money and the presence. Yeah. Isn't that? Nice. Well. As early to giving. See, I'm married. Good done. Okay. Hitting wow, finally free from school. Josh. And Susan looked forward to paying off their debts and finding permanent work easier said than done. Josh couldn't seem to keep a job. He always knew better than his bosses and co workers and didn't hesitate to tell them. So his dream was to become a self made millionaire. I was looking for other jobs. I looked into real estate. I went to a couple offices. Check that what take to get a license and start selling real estate. I think that would be a reasonable. Option a reasonable thing to fall back on Josh's youngest brother, Michael enlisted in the army, midway through two thousand and two. Josh very briefly considered joining the military as well. In her journal, Susan listed some pros and cons the pros, cheap living free education and Josh being more healthy the cons involved. Her husband going to war and possibly dying leaving her young widow stranded on some army base somewhere far away from friends and family instead in early two thousand and three they took a job together. Managing a senior living center called orchard park in Yakima at first it seemed like a great fit. They put distance between themselves and Josh's, dad. They had a free place to live in an apartment on site. They hoped to stay there. A couple of years paying down their debt building up experience and moving up the management ladder. Steve Powell watched his son and daughter-in-law from a distance. He had become deeply infatuated with Susan while she was living under his roof. He visited there Yakima apartment. One night and offered to give Susan a massage. Yeah. She allowed him to rub her feet and shoulders. He took full advantage later that night. He put his camcorder on a tripod and filmed himself undressing while describing what he had done. Probably most Rodney experience entire most of this video is too explicit to share Steve was convinced though. Susan had consented in silence to what could very well be considered a sexual assault shoulder blades. And I went up. Of her sleep. She even she just seemed to enjoy any night. I have slipped. My hand up inside of a sleeve I handed over here. I was push his sizing solar of late. I was was right here. Just her breast. Steve wanted Susan for himself, and he wanted Josh his son out of the picture. Here's what Steve wrote in one journal entry. I have long known that they had a very unstable relationship in that. Josh was only using her as a means to financial end. There's never any money for her to do. Nice things for herself because all their money goes to pay off debts Josh accumulated while he was single and living with Catherine the senior living center job went sideways soon after Josh wrote in his journal that their managers were asking them to break policies and laws. He escalated it to regional management and human resources but got nowhere. They thought about transferring to another center possibly in Colorado that was complicated though, because Josh developed a bad reputation. On the other hand, they had made progress paying down his debts and started to discuss beginning family. They were not ready for kids. So they bought a little green parakeet Steve brought his camcorder to their apartment to meet Verde. This is. Verd- the newest member. No, we're not idiots, which of the Spanish language, though. This is the newest member of Susan injustice. It pave year. Do the cute little things kiss him. Give him a little while later. They bought a mini macaw parrot, which they named trial. Susan's unease around her father in law continued to grow he seemed to visit a lot even after they've moved to Yakima. Steve dumped thousands of dollars into a home recording studio convinced his music would help Lou Susan Susan's picture was the desktop background on his computer. Steve was a pressure cooker. His obsession for Susan continued to build a close friends told him to leave it alone because pursuing a relationship with his daughter-in-law would tear his family apart. But he could not contain himself. On July thirteenth two thousand and three Steve drove out to meet Josh and Susan at a commercial trucking business in Kent. Josh was considering yet another career change. He wanted to drive a big rig. Right. Steve rod is video camera as he always did when Susan was around their jobs taking off on his first drive a truck. Josh was going to be a while. So Steve offered to give Susan a lift back to her parents house in south hill. It was the opportunity he had dreamed of for months at last. He would have Susan all to himself. He grabbed a quick video clip of Susan from the driver's seat of minivan than crammed the camcorder into its bag just before she opened the minivans passenger door. He pressed the red button to stop the recording. But it kept rolling. The video was just black, but the microphone caught the whole conversation. They started south on state route one sixty seven Susan talked about how she in. Josh we're considering a move to Colorado. It was the last thing Steve wanted to hear he could not take it. Probably. Last year. Excellent. Experience the couch. Six months. It was a massage right? Two hours. That long silence spoke volumes consider the situation here as well. There was a real power disparity between the two of Steve was in control at the wheel. Susan was trapped in the car with him. She tried to change the subject Steve wasn't deterred the getting signals from the maybe interpreting something they shouldn't be interpreting. Just for example, you're sitting on the couch. Just don't like you. I was extremely arouse. Some of that. Susan. What were very tears? Just the daughter. Your children. Talk to you about this. I realized last time over that rail. Two. Other doesn't kiss me. You know, like six years ago they started in. I love you. Family is. Local visible. Selling their Yvo should. Care about you know, I think is. Level. Your. Just about the last time that the kiss. I didn't like. Okay. A few important points here. First Susan was clearly uncomfortable. Her voice was very guarded when she said, I don't know where you're going with this second she told Steve she did not like it when he kissed her. He had taken to giving her a peck on the forehead whenever he visited also remember their ages. Susan was Twenty-one Steve was fifty three's season. I get all the as I say, you know, when you're when you're daughter-in-law wants your office. So so says. You don't think? Ending. Okay. The nationally. Steph's fantasies were crumbling. Susan didn't even want him to touch her. She changed the topic again. But Steve wouldn't let it go. Nice to your. Christian too. Because. Josh. After nearly an hour of awkwardness Steve at last pulled up outside Susan's parents house. He told her thank you for being. So sweet before she stepped out of the minivan. Still. That night. Steve wrote about the conversation in his journal. I am in so much pain right now. I don't know where to turn with it. I spoke to Alina who's been very supportive of my infatuation obsession, her advice was to accept that. Susan is a player, and that is what players do they lead guys on. This will probably be one of the last entries about Susan my desire and my love for her. It was not the last not by a long shot St. went back to look at his video to see if he'd captured any good shots. Susan, that's when he discovered the recording of their conversation. He went through it again analyzing every word he became convinced. Susan had not in fact rejected him here's what he wrote. I was thinking while that maybe I should apologise. Maybe I will. But I don't feel too much at fault. Maybe I've done irreparable damage. I don't know. So depressed. How can a woman do this to me? It's insane. Susan told Josh what had happened and he came on glued Josh told his dad, I guess insanity. Runs in our family. Steve worked his magic. He told. Josh the insanity had started with Susan. He said she had led him on. I mean, he was only reacting to provocations Josh kept his distance for a little while. He didn't see his dad face to face for a couple of months when they talked on the phone. Josh would make sure Susan was not in the room. By september. Steve was writing in his journal that Josh had come around to his point of view. It would seem that he has pretty much brushed the incident off it did not take much for me to convince Josh that she instigated my feelings for her by her woodland ties. Mints reality is. I don't think Susan is upset at me. Oh. No, Susan was very upset. Her father in law had propositioned her and her own husband didn't seem to care. She wanted nothing to do with Steve when he came to visit Josh and Susan's apartment in October. She locked herself in the bedroom and refused to talk to that same month. Josh and Susan transfer jobs from the orchard park center in Yakima to another senior living community called capital place in Olympia, the move put them even closer to Steve than they'd been in Yakima enough was enough Josh and Susan decided they needed to get away from Steve they were going to move far away to Utah. Josh asked his dad for help loading their stuff into the moving van. Here's what Steve wrote in his journal. I help them clear out their apartment Wednesday. Now, Josh doesn't need me for awhile. It's interesting that he was upset at me for telling Susan I was in love with her. But needed my help too much to stay away. Josh also grabbed his motorcycle he'd given the bike to his brother Michael to cover a debt. Steve was furious from his point of view, Josh had cheated his younger brother twice he wrote in his journal that Josh was also cheating. Susan. She has an essence paid off his and Catherine's debts. All I can say is it Susan deserves the walk away from their marriage with more than an empty wallet. That's pretty much how Catherine was. Josh and Susan left Washington in December of two thousand and three when they arrived in Utah. They crashed with Josh's sister. Jennifer, her husband Kirk and their kids, just watching them interact. I was concerned I was already concerned Josh was very controlling. And by that point Susan starting to push back a little bit. She didn't want to. You know, just be controlled and not have any choices in her life. And so she went always handle it in the best way, and she would bite back in Ferber -ly. She would she definitely resist and in savings that, you know, maybe Warrenton always the nicest way, Josh and Susan both signed up with a temp agency and landed jobs at fidelity, they also found a realtor and started looking to buy a house in late January. They toured home on a colder sack in the Salt Lake suburb of west valley city the house on Sarah circle was about twenty two hundred square feet. Josh ran from room to room giddy. Imagining all the space he would have tools computers and our seat toys. They submitted a bid at what Josh called quote. The Lord's appointed price about five hundred above list and prayed for miracle. Their prayers were answered Josh wrote about the experience oddly, referring to himself in the third person yet several misty eyed moments as he contemplated the workings of the spirit. Also the greatness this house could bring. To josh. And Susan no longer would they be transient and subject to whatever unsuitable shelter came available. No, more clutter and lack of access to their property. No more getting angry every day because of these factors yet Josh other writings reveal that by that point. He had already abandoned his faith. I found a single text file among the thousands of documents. Police recovered from Josh's computer much later, it was dated January fifteen two thousand and four in it. He wrote, where's the spirit gone today. He'll never leave my side. They say, but now I need him. So I don't know where to go. I am afraid full of pride. I can't believe I know too much. My mind has over driven my heart. I have been taught the untruth of my God. Buying Sarah circle house put Josh and Susan in a precarious position. The financing only worked because nothing on their pay stubs revealed they were working on a temporary basis had the lender known. They probably would not have qualified for a mortgage. It did not take long for Susan to make friends at work. She landed in the fidelity, call center natural fit for her outgoing personality Josh on the other hand struggled. He was stuck doing data entry. Josh felt the job was beneath him not long after getting a home loan. Fidelity. Let him go Susan's, dad. Chuck Cox couldn't understand why they still move forward with buying the house. So it took to goes to qualify for the house. And now, they know they don't have one in Cav. What's your plan? Here. Why are you doing this? Josh had bigger emboldens to make a million dollars working as a realtor that meant Susan had to support him as she revealed in her journal. Maybe we'll get a client. So he can start making an income or we'll get pregnant either would be great. I feel like I'm too stressed out. Because I'm in attempt job supporting a mortgage, and no prospects for Josh as she settled into her new church congregation. Susan made fast friends with her. Neighbors particularly a woman named Casey Hellawell funny because when she moved to Utah. She was I don't know. I guess I would call a little bit immature when she became friends with my husband, and I and we had three little kids. She said, I don't know if this is gonna work out because I've never been friends with anybody with kids before. But we'll give it a try and see if we can hit it off. She also received a calling in her new church ward or congregation working with young women in the church of Jesus Christ latter-day saints callings, are volunteer positions held by members. Susan did her best to juggle work, home and church life, even though she had been raised and the Elliott hurt. She was very much in the newlywed kind of teenage girls sort of still mentality. Kind of had to grow up really fast with Josh's husband, though, they had moved away Steve Powell continued to loom over Josh and Susan's marriage. He spent hours talking to Josh on the phone Susan documented frustration over that in her journal. I am trying to deal with forgiving my father. In law of what he said and done as I try he continued to Reifen d-, which makes it even more difficult. I am to the point where if I had for it would bristle whenever I know Josh is talking to dad in June Susan applied for and received a permanent full time position with fidelity her pay worked out to about thirty three thousand dollars per year. The job came with benefits that would cover medical care for her baby. Yeah. That's right. Susan was pregnant. Wild pregnant Susan studied for took and passed the tests necessary to obtain her stockbroker licenses she became breadwinner for her growing family. Susan confided in her friend kearse saying she'd had misgivings about how Josh would fares father. It's funny because when she was first pregnant with Charlie she kept saying, I just can't picture his dad. He's just I just don't see how this is gonna work. But then I look at how he acts with our pet bird and he's really loving the birds. So maybe it will work out for him to be a dad. Susan went into labor on January nineteenth of two thousand five. Chuck and Judy Cox had traveled to Utah for the delivery. They drove Susan to the hospital because Josh was too busy tinkering with his computer when he finally arrived and our late. He sat on the window sill with his laptop right now. The frantic phase season. Great pain, all add in the baby's just about to be born and everything. And I said Josh Josh come over here. He's still nothing is why would overnight I took the laptop, and I just closed the lid on it. I said it's time you need to be with her. And I set it down beside kind of helped him up. He. He went over took her hand than she shortly thereafter yet. She looks upset see dad. He's there for me. He's dead. Okay. Derek yester- force. It is truck told me Josh's behavior changed once he held his son Charley for the first time that fear in his eyes and in a sense of this. Oh my gosh. What's going on as she squeezing his hand? And as soon as babies bore, and then he was home. Look what I got a says this is super buying. This is the best child in the world. And he's a big proud daddy. And I'm going good. Maybe maybe there's hope here if Ted that to wake him up. Maybe he's woke up I don't know Susan took about five weeks of maternity leave before returning to work. She wrote in her journal that when she went back being apart from Charlie tore at her eyes out while he ate and Iraq them can't imagine giving up a son was hard enough to leave him for twelve hours. Did a lot of tearful praying? I cry. I'd somehow made it through the day, but felt on the verge of tears all day long. She considered quitting her job and working Josh's assistant in his real estate business. He continued to spend money. They didn't have a habit. He had justified from the beginning of their relationship. Susan poured out her frustrations in an April. Seventh two thousand and five journal entry Josh had failed to take any notice of their fourth wedding anniversary day earlier depressed and stressed because Josh wants me to possibly go back to work again, and doesn't seem to want to focus on real estate and the churches covering our utilities, and our groceries and I feel like a moot. And like Josh just wants to take the easy way out and never get around to supporting his family. She brought her frustrations to her Bishop, though, lay leader of their church congregation. She told him about her father in law. How Steve had propositioned her two years earlier the bishops suggested Josh and Susan go to marriage counseling the bitch. Also talked to Josh telling him to show his wife more affection. Josh dismissed him saying they couldn't afford another baby. Josh resented. The time Susan spent on church Gatien's feeling she was neglecting him. He quit going to church himself and awareness grew in Susan that something was fundamentally wrong with their marriage. She sometimes considered running away back to her parents in Washington, but never did. So it's just more of me changing me to hope it helps. Josh, I love him and Charlie and no longer feel the need to happen. Best puyallup. Like I did earlier Josh with things negative. It was during this time. She wrote in her journal about a dream in which her teenage ex-boyfriends saved her from a bomb. Susan didn't wanna get back with him. But realized something important was missing from her marriage. It's been almost a year since Josh. And I have been physically close as in sex Joshua's seems to be stressed out or busy on the computer or too tired by the time. He gets to bed worried that it will get sick by kissing me. Or that will get. Pregnant again, despite the fact that you can't get pregnant by kissing. In fact, this side of Josh went way back into his past. He had expressed desire for Susan in his audio journals when they dated I love. Wresting? With her sweet body next to mine. I love the way it feels. She is. She is. She's not. Abbadi? In the right spot and more coned at heart in the right spots. I think credible. But at the same time Josh had struggled to do simple boyfriend things like pulled Susan's hand. But when it really comes down to it. I am not into any kissing, and I'm really less likely to even be comfortable cuddly. I've got a album have to. Get away from girl I can cuddle second as kind of playing around. But then I have to get away from her in order to maintain my comfort. So I decided to ask Catherine Everett the woman Josh dated before Susan about this part of his personality. Here's what she said. And the beginning of a relationship, it was very much. Jams, and you know, huddle each other in stuff like that. But then when we moved in together. It's. Turn into he didn't wanna kiss his everytime. He kissed me. He'll get sick. That's he was convinced sound familiar. Josh told Susan the same thing he told Catherine was he a germaphobe or was it something else in any case? Josh treatment of Catherine wrecked. Herself esteem. I remember, you know, thinking to myself, I'm like, there's something wrong of me. You know? I couldn't understand how go from one thing to him being like that. It just didn't make any sense. But that's what he would tell me. I wanna kiss you every time I kiss you get sick. So you can imagine how Susan had to have felt when her husband refused to even give her a kiss the growing physical distance only compounded the financial strain. Josh and Susan we're under by Valentine's Day of two thousand six they were talking about the logistics of divorce Josh had been scarred. When his parents split he had no intention of allowing Susan to divorce him after they're talk Susan wrote, a pleading letter, I want this marriage to work not just for Turley. But for us because Turley will grow up just like you did. And I still wanna be with you after Charlie. I just like how I'm sure your mom and dad wish they had a significant other in their lives. Now that you outgrow not in the letter Susan made several promises in hopes of keeping her husband happy, I will keep working at fidelity, cheap, not spending money only guess only drive to and from work and. Care. I will not do hair or only do it. When you tell me, you won't be home. Or if I can do it at someone else's. I can continue to try to skin. I can read scriptures out loud for us. I can continue to save prayers and make a continuous effort to make our marriage work us be happy in. Did you catch Susan's mentioned of scanning in there? I've made a lot of references to Josh's journal so far in this podcast. The truth is many of joshes journals were just random scraps of paper he'd write notes in the margins. If he went to church he'd ride down who he went with and what was discussed Josh kept everything letters receipts notes fliers and made digital copies all of his correspondence back and forth to high school friends like Jackie Theresa survive because he or Susan scanned those letters and envelopes, Josh also pressured Susan to edit her teenage boyfriend out of her journals. He wanted her to throw away pictures from the high school dances sheet attendant, but Susan she resisted this. She later told the co worker one day her own children would be mature enough to understand the mistakes their mother had made as a teen. Susan quit. Fidelity for good in may of two thousand and seven. They took out a second mortgage on the Sarah circle house to get by as their incomes. Dwindled Josh's at home realtor business, which it never really made it off the ground started to collapse hoping to prop it up. He bought a full page ad in the local phone directory, the directory publisher dex media did its part, but Josh was not happy with the outcome. He accused the company of misprinted the phone number and refused to pay decks sent the account to a debt collector who in turn sued Josh in Utah state court that lawsuit demanded more than ninety one thousand dollars in unpaid costs in the middle of all of this Susan learned she was again pregnant this time she desperately wanted a girl. There were signs early on the baby might be born with cystic fibrosis or down syndrome. I worry that we won't be able to support the needs of CF or downs. Child. Josh won't accept it. In get a divorce that he'll favor Charlie and ignore this child. Susan delivered their second child. Another boy on January second two thousand seven just a few weeks shy of two years after Charlie's birth. The baby weighed just five pounds ten ounces. He'd had the umbilical cord wrapped around his neck twice and Susan in horror. Saw he was blue the delivery room staff used her oxygen line to help get the newborn breathing to Susan's relief. Her second boy was born free of any disease. Josh was supposed to name him. His on the phone telling my mom and says what about Brady and I'm thinking Brady bunch. No, they agreed on Brayden. He was there miracle baby. Then more than ever before Susan had her hands full. She was carrying for two young kids. Susan wasn't working and Josh's adventure in the real estate business continued to worsen they had just one cart that point a two thousand and five Chrysler town and country minivan which Josh rarely allowed Susan to drive debt had haunted. Josh his entire adult life. That's not fair that I'm that. I regret any of the purchases I've made I'm I'm happy with the way. I am the way I'm living in April of two thousand seven Josh and Susan filed for chapter seven bankruptcy federal court records show at the time. He had more than thirty thousand dollars in credit card debt, nearly fifty nine thousand dollars in outstanding student loans and roughly one hundred thousand dollars owed to that botched phonebook ad. He also his father-in-law Chuck Cox three thousand dollars and made sure to include that on the court filing. The bankruptcy court. Didn't exactly why this like clean Josh's student loan debt. Persisted, he reaffirmed his mortgage and car loan. So those stuck around as well, but the credit card balances and the phone book debt collection lawsuit disappeared. The nation was sliding toward what would become known as the great recession Josh's, political and social views were also growing more extreme he often ranted about a coming environmental catastrophe during which the world would run short of water. He warned Susan they might need to flee the United States on short notice. Susan was baffled, but tolerated it as best she could. She learned to be really really self reliance. She started growing garden, she had fruit trees, she learned to Ken things and she had wheat storage. I mean, she was kept saying weird for me. I'm not really a homemaker tight. But I'm trying to learn how to fit into this, Utah, mom and wife thing and learn how to do all of these Silverline things you learn how to make bread. So she would come over. And we would cook and watch movies and just talk Susan's journal emails and Facebook messages show, those friendships really helped her cope dinner, which I'm the only one enjoying and I'm sitting here reading self-help book thinking, nobody appreciates my efforts her at least not the people closest to make an impact with like, Josh, I'm not suicidal or anything just filling alone frustrated, which is interesting because even as I write feeling alone. I know I'm not alone. And I'm aware helpless. I am and. I almost feel selfish to pray for improvements. But high still want things to be better than they are by the start of two thousand eight it was clear to Susan. She could no longer depend on Josh to support the family. They had to get regular jobs again, though. Josh legally raised the three grant he owed Susan's dad through the bankruptcy. Susan insisted in her journal, she would repay it started job hunting about December twelfth I'm not telling my parents because I want to tell them in the form of handing them a check to pay them back for the money. We -pired literally years ago, torture, not to tell them. She landed a position at Wells Fargo investments, call center doing similar work to her old job at fidelity there. Even some people she recognized from her old stockbroker study group. Susan again was bread-winning for her family kneeling on the kitchen floor cleaning up the food from the boys all three of them eating had to make an effort to concentrate on why I'm better off being married as opposed to the single. Mother often feel like I am. Had to stop and think about if Joshua died if we were divorced if he were the original guy, married, what would be different and how much better that would or wouldn't be. Decided I don't want him dead. My like around for the boys occasionally, he actually does what I need him to do. Susan was finally awake. But she was still mired in a terrible marriage. On the next episode of cold. They were not doing well on their marriage. And she was talking to an attorney looking at getting a divorce if you haven't already please subscribe to cold toss rating or a review you can find cold on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at the cold podcast for video clips pictures from the case and more hit up the cold podcast dot com. Also, if Susan story sounds familiar in your own life. In other words, if you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse in any form, please get immediate help in the US. Support is a phone call away at the national domestic violence hotline at one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three or online at WWW dot the hotline dot org. A quick. Thank you to my team. Kristen sorenson. Eric openshaw can fall Daniel Prager. Adam Mason Gillian Friedman, and especially Cheryl Worsley for all of their help with this project music for cold. Composed by Michael bond Miller canon in indeed performed by Becky, Bruce, wake up little Susie performed by John Carter and Blair Carter cold is a KSL podcast. Thank you for listening. By the way, our friends at BC news are tracking stories like Susan Powell's and many others everyday as they happen both in the United States and across the world. If you're looking for a straightforward news podcast to start your day with what you need to know. You've got to hear the new daily podcast start here. Search for and listen to start here for free wherever you're listening right now to cold.

Josh Josh Catherine Susan Steve Catherine Susan Cox Susan I Chuck Cox Utah Steve Powell Jennifer Joshua Yakima Charlie official Susie Tacoma Mary Steph
Where is Mommy? The Susan Cox Powell Story

True Crime Recaps

32:59 min | 1 year ago

Where is Mommy? The Susan Cox Powell Story

"Welcome to true crime. Recaps the only podcast bringing you all the crime in half the time with double the you're not gonna believe they shit your host the one you'd call. If you had to. Hi body, Amy Townsend when the killing stops. She's just getting started. Hey, girl. So I don't know about you. But when the oxygen channel said they were going to air the disappearance of Susan Cox Powell on may fourth and fifth. I was all it, but also super impatient and wanted to get the cliff notes Berge of this case right away. So I am assuming that you are just as impatient to hear murder details and home my God. You have got to hear this. This case starts in two thousand nine and basically continues in one way or another until twenty eighteen and I was oh m gene all the way through the time line. And I guarantee that you are going to freaking freak when you hear this. This case is seriously game of thrones level, crazy beyond Susan's disappearance. We've got her husband. Josh who everyone agrees is very strange from the beginning. We've got his totally fucked perverted father, Stephen who was obsessing. About Susan the entire time. She and his son were together, we are talking collecting her hair, stealing her underwear. Taking secret pictures of her and writing more than twenty three hundred pages about her in a freaking diary level of obsessing. Okay. We have a missing mother Susan, and we have the eventual murder suicide of Josh and their two little boys. Charlie in Brighton. Oh and Stevens eventual arrest for child pornography in a legal Boyer ISM. Oh, yeah. And another murder unrelated, but possibly related to the Powell family murders. But maybe not s-. I'd either way it's very strange, but let's get into this. Because I want to keep it within thirty minutes. We've got a lot to cover. All right here. We go. Let's go way back in time to nineteen Ninety-two. When Stephen and Terry Powell parents of one sixteen year old Josh Powell divorce and a bitter court battle drags, Josh and his four siblings. Jennifer, John, Michael and Alina through bitter court battles with Terry saying that Steven was abusive and showing Josh porn when he was a little kid and all manner of scumbag ary and for his part, Stephen was like, you're nuts. You once left the house in your underwear, which I mean what? But even if she did since when is that a crime as opposed to abusing your kid with violence and porn mean any case Terry had finally had enough and got out of this horrible twenty year marriage. But not before Josh killed his sister's gerbils, try. To hang himself and threatened her with a butcher knife. When she asked him to do the dishes eight years later in two thousand and one twenty five year old Josh met nineteen year old Susan at an LDS church event. Now for those of you who did not grow up in Utah, Idaho, or Washington LBS means Mormon because the Mormon church there Mormons may met impure wallop Washington and in two thousand and one they got married. Quick shout out to my single girls. A I know it's tempting to hear something like this and say even a fucking gerbil killer can find someone to marry him. And I can't and to you. I say he dies in the end, and you have much higher standards in gerbil Keller, and you will find someone that you won't eventually murder. So no, more negativity. Now at first Susan, Josh, we're happy they're holding hands hugging kissing each other. They appear to be the perfect couple, and how many frequent times that we heard that. And it's usually followed by until he killed her. And this is no exception. But we're not there yet. I we have to talk about what made them move from Washington to Utah now right after they got married, Josh and Susan were living with his father, Steven Powell. In puyallup. It was then that Stephen developed this obsessive infatuation with her and it didn't help that. They're all living in really close quarters together. Basically, he would follow her around the house with a fucking camcorder, which was usually trained on her or her chest or something and got a completely say it. He used a small mirror to spy on her while she used the bathroom he stole her under. Aware from her laundry. He read her journals and even kept a sex diary of his own and feel twenty three hundred pages with his fantasies about her and things he saw her doing. It's insanely sick in two thousand three he told her he wanted to fuck her and marry her. And of course, she was like, no, thank you. And when she told Josh about it. He basically said that she was making it all up, and exaggerating it and his dad said that she was coming onto him. And the whole thing is very hashtag metoo, except she couldn't exactly report the guy to human resources since it was her father in law. So instead she and Josh moved to west valley City, Utah to get away from him Josh's mother and sister, Jennifer lived in west valley city, so they had some family there and Josh had a business degree from university of Washington in Seattle, and he worked I. A lot of companies, but strangely he couldn't keep a job and Susan had a cosmetologist license, but she worked as a broker for Wells Fargo. She was basically the breadwinner, but Josh controlled her and the money to the point where we've for it. She wasn't even allowed to buy new socks. But instead Josh told her to knit them. Yeah. This is what a fucking crazy situation looks like, but we're gonna get there because there are so many W T f moments in this story. I try not to just scream them all out. And instead take this in chronological order, but don't worry gonna keep it to thirty minutes because you have got get off that stairmaster soon. Right fast for it. A couple of years to two thousand and five and Josh is getting worse and more controlling and Susan has got to be wondering just what? In hell, she is doing with this guy. But then she got pregnant for the first time, she went into labor with their son, Charlie and get this Josh told her to ask her parents to take her to the hospital because he had to finish something. I what was that? Something you ask and wittily the child's crib? Papery in the house in rose pedals for her return. No he had to back up his hard drive. He showed up at the hospital two hours later, despite this insane behaviour Susan didn't demand her parents start divorce proceedings on her behalf while she was busy giving birth. Instead, she Josh had another son. Brayden two years later in two thousand and seven also that same year. Josh vile for bankruptcy with over two hundred thousand dollars in debt. This guy was spending money like. Saddam hussein. And meanwhile, Susan had to get his permission just to use the family car and get this anytime he gave Susan money for like groceries. She had to look through a spreadsheet of adds to find the cheapest prices on things then when she went shopping she had to come home and enter every single item into that spreadsheet. And if she spent more than a couple of cents on a can of beans like more than what the coupon said it was worth Josh would yell at her and getting -gree. So, of course, her friends were like divorce him, but she was worried about what do you do to her and the kids if she tried to leave him mainly because he thought of the boys like his possessions and Susan taking away his things was not going to go over. Well, and it didn't as we'll see later in the story. But obviously Susan thank God was not a complete sister wife, and according to her. She is definitely thinking about divorce at this point, especially because his insane spending is really need her credit since he took out cards in her name and the knee max them out. So that two hundred thousand dollar debt is not just his it's Hearst to and the fact that it even exists is making it harder for her to try and get away from him and start a new life. So in July of two thousand eight Susan made a home video on the advice of a divorce lawyer. So that she could have a video record of the things Josh bought using her credit in case she needed that recording later, or if you tried to sell them, and she she wanted to file for divorce so along with that tape, she wrote a secret will that said, I want it documented that there is extreme turmoil in our marriage, and if I die it may not be an accident. Even if it looks like one. What girl please? If we can learn anything from Susan it is that if you're at the point of making secret wills and letting people know that if they come across your dead body, and it was definitely not an accident. You need to grab the kids. Grab your purse and go go to your parents house get on a greyhound go as far as your money will take you just go that is what Susan what tell us now. Because of course, as you can guess the next on our time line is the disappearance on the morning of December six two thousand nine Susan and her two sons went to church, Josh hadn't really been active in the church with them since like two thousand six at this point. He kind of goes in and out of church and a friend stop by her house to see her that afternoon, but Susan told her she wasn't feeling well and she needed to take. A nap apparently Josh who rarely cooked had made pancakes for dinner, and she was feeling ill and tired after eating them because they were fucking poisoned. Right. The next day, December seventh the daycare called Josh's mother and sister when the kids didn't get dropped off as usual. They couldn't get a hold of Susan or Josh. So the two women go to their house to see if anything was wrong, but no one is answering the door. So they called the police. The police broke into the house thinking, maybe the family had been victims of carbon monoxide poisoning or something like that. But no one was inside. But there were two large box vans blowing on a couch that felt damp to police. Josh said later that the couch had been cleaned before they went camping, and he was drying them with these fans. So that's totally bizarre. Again. Obvious. No one is in the house, but Susan's purse wallet and ide- where there and she didn't go into work that morning at later that day run five Josh comes back with the two boys. And he goes to the police station for questioning here's some audio from that interrogation. What do you think is out to her? I need to tell me what you think is over. On her own. I told you the dress. Few times jobs silent anything say can will be used against him. Quarter flow tech of just interview children. And your children telling ours tempers that with you last night. And it's you come back. Yeah. Probably about it for. As in your wife is missing job. But I want to think about it for a couple of days already everything culture you answer. So Josh claims that he left around midnight with his sons at that time they were four and two years old to go camping eighty five miles away from home in freezing temperatures and Susan was fine with that. And in fact, he claimed Susan had been sound asleep when they left she was probably asleep. But most likely in the trunk of his car the police found blood evidence on a tile floor near the dam sofa and forensic testing revealed the blood belong to Susan Josh was asked to submit his cellphone for forensic testing. But before he handed it over he secretly removed the sim card and activated a new phone in Tremont in Utah. It's like more than eighty miles away from where they lived K a little over a week after Susan SIS. Disappearance the police named Josh a person of interest. They seize the family minivan and found her so phone in the car he could not explain what it was doing there around that same time. Josh went to their Bank with a power of attorney form, and withdrew all of the money from Susan's IRA accounts. And he also cancelled her future, chiropractic appointments, which was actually quite conscientious of him. I mean, I can barely remember to cancel my appointments ahead of time much less canceling appointments for the people I've murdered. But of course, during all of this Josh kept claiming he had no idea where Susan was. And then about a year later, he suggested that she might have run off with a guy named Steve coacher. Now, there is no evidence that she even knew Steve. But weirdly, he went missing on December thirteenth after driving his car twenty one hundred mile. To Henderson Nevada and basically walked away from it and vanished into thin air Spokane crazy investigators later learnt both Josh and Susan had taken out one million dollar life insurance policies on themselves with two hundred fifty thousand dollar writers on each of their children. And that Josh been telling people that to get away with murder. He would hide a body in a mine shaft in the west desert of Utah about a month after Susan disappeared on January eighth twenty ten. Josh took the boys and officially moved back to you up to live with his father, again Joshua's, sister, Alina and his brother John also lived in the house with them. So you know, that's gonna go about as well as you would expect. This is a good place to talk a little bit more about Joshua's, totally fucked up dysfunctional family from hell, so let's th. Art with his father, Stephen a sick fuck to put it mildly. Take a listen to this video the oxygen channel put together talking about Stevens obsession with Susan. It's truly unbelievable. Steven Powell was narcissistic, very self absorbed out of touch with reality. He was under the impression that anytime. He was with Susan or sauces, and she was hitting on him that she was interested in him. He did that for me. Got a. He was infatuated with her worshiper just turns me on perpetual state of tournaments. She's around. Video her he would be inside of his band in video her walking to and from buildings. I had to get a picture of this tryst of useful back here is insecurity loan to. Evening in Susan too. Stevens obsessed with her Stephen had journals about her. Stephen had pitches per. Stephen Moore pictures of himself with her so. Probably do some pretty. Some people think through wayward. Here are the panties pick to Susan's artery. Smell. So nice. I think she's the most beautiful thing than ever want to yours progressive league. It's worse and worse and worse would line has had to this actually on her body. Somebody looked at this case. And they only looked Stephen Powell. Pretty sweating. I think they would be quick to say he was responsible for disappearance. And he didn't stop it. Susan. He also had pictures of the little girls who lived next door to him undressing. I mean, he was charged with fourteen counts of Boyer ISM. And one count of possessing an image of minors engaged in sexually explicit conduct. Anyone to jail for about seven years. He died of a heart attack in twenty eighteen about a year after he'd gotten out of jail. No after Stephen was arrested. Josh temporarily lost custody of his sons they were sent to live with Susan's parents Charles and Judy Cox. Although Josh was still allowed to have supervised visitations with them several times a week since that makes total sense. But before we get to that we have to talk a little more about the other members of Josh's family, his brother, John who was also living in the house had apparently been seen nude and wearing a diaper by. Social services on several occasions. He yeah, let that sink in for a second. And in his room social worker said he had a hangman's noose and gallows set up as well. As a poster of a woman with a sword in her genitals coming out of her stomach what a great environment for little boys in Josh's sister Alina who was also living. There always insisted that Josh was innocent this expert excerpt excuse me from a video she made to prove the innocence of her family is a good example of her bizarre denial and crazy brainwashed tone, the police arrested pollens timber twenty second in us that arrest is rationale to take Josh's children from him instigating, a kangaroo court custody battle that ultimately caused the death of my brother nephews. I noticed how she glosses over the fact that her brother took a hatchet to his kids, and then blew up their house in a double murder suicide. But before we get back to the main timeline, I have to tell you about Joshua's brother, Michael about a year after Josh killed his kids and himself. His brother Michael killed himself by leaping from a parking garage in Minneapolis where he was going to grad school police have been trying to link him to Susan's disappearance and said they believed he was heavily involved in disposing of her body sighting of flurry of calls between the brothers and encrypted messages. And apparently they had set up a fake Facebook account, and we're patrolling find Susan groups on Facebook to try and find out if people were maybe getting close to finding her and even planting stories about her like that she was mentally ill and she'd maybe run off with us Steve guy. So that's Michael, Jennifer Josh's. Other sister seems to be the only person in the family that's halfway normal. She even went to police an offer to wear it wired. See Josh or even her father Stephen would reveal anything about Susan that did not go well and Steven ended up jumping into defending Josh kicking Jennifer out of the house run girl run. So that is Joshua's family. Now, let's get back to the time. So it's February fifth two thousand twelve and just four days earlier, Josh lost another custody hearing to get his voice back. If you recall, they were taken out of his custody after his father got arrested for child pornography in twenty eleven and they've been living with Susan's parents and Joshua had supervised visits apparently police found some questionable images on some of Josh's computers in that raid, and he's had. To undergo some psycho valuations. Oh, and he's still a person of interest in his wife's disappearance. But. Yeah. Of course, you should be able to get his kids back. Right. Well, thank God. He couldn't. But unfortunately, he was still out to see them which brings us to that day. That'd be wary v a social worker at named Elizabeth Griffin hall had been taking the boys at this point. They're five and nine years old to visit Josh for the last three months. She gets to his house for a scheduled supervise. Visit the boys run ahead of our into the house. And by the time this social worker got to the front door. Josh had locked her out of the house. She said he caught my eye his shoulders were slumped. He had a sheepish look. He just shrugged his shoulders and slam the door. And right before he slammed the door in her face. She heard him say to the boys that he had a big surprise for them. Then she smelled gasoline and heard one of the boys crying. So she. Called nine one one. Here's how that call went. And I warn you you're going to want to fucking scream when you hear this. So of course, I had to play for you. Because I really wanted discuss this take a listen. Hey, I want to provide taken for quoted get that. And something really weird has happened. The kids went into the house in the parent, the biological parent whose name is Josh Powell will not let me in the door. What should I do dry? It's eight one one nine, and I think eighty nine I don't know what the idea. Working for me to know. I can't let me get my car, and I can. And find it. Nothing like this ever happened before. -cation? So I'm really. And I could hear one of the kids crying. But he still would want the end. Okay. It is. One. I have it here. Can't find me by. Okay. It is. It. That I hit I need help part away. On apparent FHFB's p p after been involved, and if the pace thing he looked tried out in the door. I just waiting to know where you are. Okay. Eight one one nine one eighty nine eight court to Alec ninety seven five. And I'm like to pull out of the driveway. Now, get the end. Wanna pull out of the driveway gasoline? But he won't let you won't let me in and move on to grab one in the house. Won't let me and to provide. Visit I understand how is it. Powell you don't live there right now. I know I'm fine. Talking to the state to divide to provide the Bettega. Okay. And who is there to exercise visitation? I am. And if it is with Powell. Who has been I who provide supervise Andrew doing the visit. I can provide I provide my stuff on fifth of is it here. Wait a minute. Supervised. Visit. You can't provide yourself. Typifies to provide. Okay. Well, aren't you the one the one making the visit or underpayment Super Bowl? I know the provides I picked up a hit the grandparents. And then who visit with the children. How? Okay. You to be there to supervise Josh Powell visit with the children that. And how to depend nipping towel Heiko. File. Hey, how did he how did he came to the children before you? I was one step in back of them. Okay. Okay. Yeah. At the door right in like, pay or your. My name is. Aw. Paul hyphenated. Yeah. Never. Phone number is three zero nine nine zero nine nine five five. And what with? Carrie network and the kids this been in there by now. Hen minute. And he knows. Visit to Brayden is five and Charlie seven. How W E L O U L L NFL. Yeah. Fake game is Dr. Why? Quite. I don't know about thirty nine. By Ken hundred and fifty pound. Color. On notice with wearing. I think that could you wearing. It alone. Or I don't know. I couldn't get in the house. Even the ical now or on I'm in the echo. I'm gonna Prea on. Ten prea-. That he won't have been opened the door him. I rang and everything. Let me on my question. What color is the Toyota Prius. They and the license number. I don't know. Seven five of the eight. Mary henry. Yeah. Somebody look for you there. Okay. How long will it be? I don't know, man. They have to respond to emergency life threatening situations. I the first available deputy. Life threatening. He went to court on one, Dan, he kids back, and this is really I'm afraid for their live threaten the life of the children previously. I have no idea. All right. The billable deputy contact you. Thank you. So that co- is about six minutes long locks show that it took eight minutes for that nine one one dispatcher to send a police car and another thirteen minutes for the police car to get to the scene by which time the house was already on fire the nine one one operator said later, quote, no one could have predicted. What happened quote, you know, who could have predicted what happened the person who fucking predicted what happened the cut Tim social worker? Elizabeth Griffin hall. So it's not an F that year in emergency situation and through some miracle you managed to call nine one one. But then you need to convince the person on the other end that you actually do need help. Why are I one one operators always such assholes? Of course, as we now know what was happening in the house while that nine one one call was going on was that Josh used to hatchet. To try and kill his two sons before nine cans of gasoline that he'd had preset around the house before they got there. Unfortunately, autopsy results later confirmed that he didn't kill them with the hatchet. Hey, just wounded them and smoke inhalation is what Benchley killed them. It was later discovered. How much planning Josh had put into this murder suicide a couple of days before their visit. He gave the kids toys to goodwill and a surveillance picture showed him withdrawing cash from an ATM the day before the murder suicide. Oh, he used the money to buy five gallon gas cans to set the house on fire and minutes before the fire. He said emails to his family and lawyer saying, I'm sorry goodbye. And in at least one Email he wrote that he couldn't live without his boys. So apparently, they shouldn't be allowed to live without him. Now Josh was never charged in connection with his wife's disappearance. And to this day Susan remains missing. Although in January of this year, a private search team plan to re examine an abandoned mine shaft in Utah's west as near the place where Josh said he took the boys camping in two thousand and nine when she disappeared. And over the years police have searched for hundred mineshafts in Utah, Nevada with no luck. And that's that. If he wanted dive deeper into this case, as I know you must want to and there's another podcast cult cold that did an entire season on the inside outs of this case, you can find it at the cold podcasts dot com. And in the meantime, ladies sleep with one eye open because it is always the husband until next week. We know you have a lot of murder Sasol's. Thanks for taking thirty minutes to catch up with two crime recounts. If you like to show, please show your support with five stars and written review. Let's keep the conversation going. Join us on the socials at true prime recaps. And while you're feeling chatty. Don't forget to tell your friends to listen to crime. Recaps. See you ex- Thursday.

Jennifer Josh Susan Josh Powell murder Stephen Susan Cox Powell Josh vile Stephen Powell Utah Charlie Susan SIS Joshua Steven Alina Steven Powell John Elizabeth Griffin hall Stevens
AP One Minute Headlines Nov 15 2018 06:00 (EST)

AP Radio News

02:00 min | 2 years ago

AP One Minute Headlines Nov 15 2018 06:00 (EST)

"Introducing the amazing iphone tennis you'll love on team. Oh, but most loved and wires. It's the perfect way to stay connected to those you heart. Most fall in love with I phoned ten s on T mobile and right now trading. Ineligible. Iphone and you'll save three hundred dollars. Visit a store or call one eight hundred team. You can't service remaining balances to while service and finance agreements required to seventy nine ninety nine down plus thirty per month times twenty four full price. Nine hundred ninety nine zero percent APR for well-qualified buyers plus tax on full price allow eight weeks for rebate. I'm Rita Foley. With AP news minute searchers are desperately trying to find one hundred thirty people still missing in the northern California wildfire. Fifty six people have been confirmed dead evacuees, Susan Cox in and lost her home in paradise shelter living or a WalMart living is this is like an immediate needs a Jewish in. Everybody's being great. But I can't it's going to rain. It's November is you know, this isn't. Some permanent. I don't know. I don't know what we're going to lawyer Michael avenue says it's completely bogus his arrest on domestic violence charges. I have been an advocate for women's rights my entire career. And I'm going to continue to be an advocate. I am not going to be intimidated from stopping what I am. Doing. Naughty is stormy Daniels. Lawyer he was arrested in Los Angeles. Police not immediately disclosing details of his arrest. I'm Rita Foley. Giving a beach not close enough. So that's base between you news. The way all dance and sway into news girl, then buddy, and how you move and every time you cross my girl. Alexa, play the country heat playlist. Okay. The hand with Amazon music avoi- says all you need get tens of millions of songs. Download the Amazon music app today.

Rita Foley Amazon Daniels T mobile Alexa WalMart Susan Cox Los Angeles AP Michael avenue northern California Nine hundred ninety nine zero three hundred dollars eight weeks
What to expect in bonus episodes of Cold

Cold

05:22 min | 1 year ago

What to expect in bonus episodes of Cold

"The house is gone, quiet. The cat curled up in my lap quit purring quite a while ago. I should be in bed myself, but I can't sleep. There's too much work to do. The only light comes from the blue white clo- of my MAC book screen. I tap the space bar to start playback on the next clip. The next hour of Josh Powell's audio journals. All these notes everywhere, and here's one in my closet in my office. You are perfect TIMMY, I think that is credible. To think that one sweet girl with think that I was perfect. It means a lot to me. She truly gave credits compliment ever. I'm Dave Cali the host of cold. I spent a lot of nights like this head down headphones on listening to Josh describe his relationship with his eventual wife, Susan Cox, I think that will continue to be best friends. And. Infatuated in love. With each other taking notes transcribing organizing writing pausing to glance at the clock to rouse, the cat by scratching her behind the years. Trying to maintain my own mental and emotional help in the middle of a disturbing story. Five percent of time only making other happy. And then every once in a while. Have our? I should've love her. It seems a bit absurd to say this now after crafting eighteen episodes about the Susan Powell case that some of the material didn't make the first cut, but that's the truth. So what to do with it? Well since wrapping production on the first season of cold. I've kind of gone back to the well the result three bonus episodes. They're available now at one three dot com slash plus that's p l u s it costs five dollars a month. And it's a way you can help support future investigations by the cold team. The first bonus includes more never before her. Josh Powell audio journal entries along with commentary from clinical psychologist, mad Woolley. And so he's just I think found the ideal in his mind person to feed his narcissistic self perception that he's special and deserves to be treated that way for the second bonus US marshal, Daryl Spencer. Offers an insider perspective on the Powell family complete with audio from a hidden camera recording he made while interviewing Steve Powell. Yeah. Lost his job. Susan's? Susan, I guess. House. Hangar letting people underestimated darkness and the demons that were Josh. And Steve in the third we visit a location of some mystery nutty putty cave to explore the question could Josh have disposed of his wife's body here. The only way to get through the first part of the opening which is ten or fifteen feet long is to either go flat on your back or flat on your stomach and just kinda move your way through carefully like that. And then the cave opens up into some are larger caverns these three bonus episodes of cold are available exclusively with us absorption to wonder plus again, five dollars a month gets you access along with the complete first season of cold ad free to sign up. Learn more go to WWW dot wondering dot com slash plus. That's wondering dot com slash P. L US. Oh, and one other thing if you live in or near Utah cold is hosting a live event on may six. Eighteenth at the Eccles theater in Salt Lake City. We plan on celebrating Susan and her boys as well. As continuing the conversation around domestic abuse during this special evening and all share the story behind the podcast. You'll also have a chance to ask questions of our special guests, you can get tickets by going to live at the Eccles dot com. And again, it's another way to support future seasons of cold. A portion of all ticket. Proceeds will benefit the Utah domestic violence coalition. I hope to see you there.

Josh Powell Susan Steve Powell Susan Powell Utah mad Woolley Susan Cox Powell Dave Cali Eccles theater US Daryl Spencer Salt Lake City five dollars Five percent fifteen feet
The Disappearance of Susan Powell

Scene Of the Crime

33:16 min | 6 months ago

The Disappearance of Susan Powell

"Murder Religion domestic violence money pornography. Depravity manipulation. The Susan Powell case is the worst of the worst. How? Did it all go so wrong. If you ask those close to Susan. All she ever really wanted was to be a wife. And a mother! And two thousand nine Susan worked fulltime job wasn't amazing. Mom to her two little boys, Charlie Brayden, and she was very active in her church. It was her refuge in a stormy marriage. On the outside, they appear to be happy family, but on the inside well. Nobody could imagine the kind of hell. Susan was going through being controlled and manipulated and degraded by an emotionally abusive husband Josh. Susan one out threaten divorce, but Josh made it crystal clear that if she tried to leave him, there would be consequences. So. Susan made a video documenting the family's possession. In case something happened to her. She hid that video and a secret will in a safe deposit box that she made sure Josh didn't know about. In the will. She expressed her fears the worry over the multi-million dollar life insurance policy in her name. Threatening arguments with Josh. Susan wrote in this last will and testament quote. If I die. It may not be an accident even if it looks like one. Take care of my boys. Just sixteen months later Susan disappeared. The only thing left were the breadcrumbs she left behind. Tragic that just three years later. Those breadcrumbs warrant enough to save her boys from their father. Be. android onto emergency life threatening situations earth. Velvety. Could be like that. Corn on Wang Dan he? Goes back. This is really. Curry powder live and now over ten years later. The Cox family is still hoping. For some kind of justice. Seven year old. And these fire. It's the worst. I'm Carolina Soriano with Kim Shepard and this is the scene of the crime. and. What A for Riddick? Crime! It is and not just one but a series of crimes. It started way back before Josh was even born. This case goes back. Generations and I'm sure as well here in your story, Carolyn. Josh Powell didn't come out of some immaculate home. There is a lot of family history there of criminal activity of depraved behavior, and it's really sad, because not that I feel sorry for Josh at all. Believe me, but it's almost like. Where did it start? You have to wonder. Did it start with Josh's father or Josh? His father's father or his father's? You know. How far back how many generations could this have gone? It just makes you wonder so okay. Sorry, I'm so glad that you want to start at the beginning because you know what I basically sunk my teeth into this story and I want to start at the beginning the whirlwind romance of Susan Cox. Cox and Josh Powell began at a dinner party. A Church of Jesus Christ of latter, Day Saints Mixer. If you well, and it was hosted by then twenty four year old Josh Powell at his apartment in Tacoma, Washington it was the year two thousand, a new millennium, and Love was in the air that night, nineteen year, old Susan Cox fell head over heels for Josh Ironic. That Josh was having an lds get together considering what would come later that he would like his father totally reject his faith, but Kim file that away it won't be the first irony, nor will it be the last in this tale of? It's pure evil basically. But back, then Susan was walking on air. I mean you know what that's like. When you're in a new relationship, you're so excited every moment that she didn't spend beauty school or at her part time retail jobs. She spent Joshua's place and in less than two months after Josh had that party, he and Susan were engaged. Susan's family wasn't too happy about the relationship. They encouraged her to wait, but Susan had made up her mind. She loved Josh and wanted to spend the rest of her life with him, and on the surface, the Cox and Powell families appeared to have a lot in common both were big families, lots of kids, and they were both Mormon families, but what Susan didn't know, was that Josh had a dark side, and so did his family Stephen Erica, those are Joshua's parents were members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter, Day saints or lds when they got married. But during their marriage, Steve soured on the idea of religion, and he began to openly mock teric for her beliefs in front of the children. This caused not only friction in their growing family. It was just downright toxic as battles of a religion how to raise. The children were waged in the Powell home. Now the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints was something Sacred Erica, but it wasn't just the religion. Steve flat out, refused to have boundaries with their five kids, and he was emotionally abusive terracotta and there was the pornography. According to tariffs fight divorce filings in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, two Steve, had an obsessive interest in pornography which she alleged he shared with their three sons, wasn't there some discussion that he had a belief that basically people are animals, and so we should be able to you know have relations at any time with any one in an animalistic way I mean. He really didn't see boundaries. When it comes to came to age. Let's say or species from what I understand. He kind of thought you could do whatever you wanted. And that like the conflict that happened with his wife. Erica, who wanted to just have this? Happy family and being their religion with their church, and he just didn't want any of that. and teaching your kids to openly mock their mother, I mean it's just like not only. Is it sad for Terek? But it's really it's really sad for the kids know. I'm absolutely it. It's it's just like a lot of domestic abuse, and this seems like what this case it's. It's not physical. In this case, it's mental. It's the mental the belittling and And so that's an important note to keep in mind as you talked about Kim with the history of this case in when did it begin so talking about Steve's actions in his court filings, he claimed that terrassa with into herbs and natural healing and mixed news mysticism with mormonism and practice quote, witchcraft and devil worship, so it's a real twisting of you I'm sure she was just into like herbs right and then he liked. Turns it into this whole like weird weird thing. Yeah, like she just takes Saint, John's wart or something. Her mood and all of a sudden. She's a witch. Yes, she's like this lady exactly so so basically in those same court documents, they also revealed that Josh was an extremely troubled teen. He allegedly killed his sister's gerbils threatened his mother with a butcher knife when she asked him to be more respectful and that Josh was following his father's footsteps when it came to contempt for women and authority. Now it is, we should note here that that that as a team, Josh also attempted to commit suicide well, I think clearly shows that he knew that there was something wrong with his home life and was trying to escape it. Yeah, exactly. But none of this was on display during Susan. Joshua's courtship and you didn't tell her before they got engaged. Guess what? I'm sure he I. Don't know all the research that I did. I don't know how much of his history that he shared with Susan. I believe that you know he would want to keep that under wraps. Shared a lot of with her at some point, because that he had written letters to his high school, girlfriend or college girlfriend before he met. Susan must've high school girlfriend. Where he did talk about his feelings and his home life and his family relationships, so he he did disclose some of this to other females, so one could assume that he would share it with his wife well, it wasn't enough to stop her from getting married to him and in two thousand, and maybe it was maybe it was later, too. Yeah, it wasn't a after they got married. Because I think at that time he was really trying to you know he was hosting these LDS parties he was. You know he hadn't rejected the church yet. He was very much like wanted to get on. The straight narrow wanted to to have a good relationship, and so Susan and Josh tied the Knot in an LDS church in two thousand and one. But from the beginning of their marriage John Shot issues holding down a job despite having a bachelor's degree in business from U. DUB and being a computer whiz, something always came up which put a strain on their finances and their relationship throughout their marriage, and here's another irony Josh was so controlling over Susan's money, nitpicking everything she spent money on while at the same time, he was a complete. Spend thrift, only he would. Buy Things for himself. In fact, it was the loss of a job that prompted Susan and Josh to temporarily move in with Josh's Dad Steve when they were newly married now most people like I lived with. My mother-in-law law and it was like okay. This is great, you know we get to live. Rent Free, and we can save money and get out of debt but young Susan. Had No idea what was in store for her? At the Powell residents in Puyallup under such close quarters, it didn't take long for Steve Again Josh's Dad to become infatuated with his new daughter in law, and that evacuation quickly morphed into something beyond obsession Steve Literally followed Susan around the House with a camcorder. was shameless, not being shy about recording every move and zooming in on her private parts. Years later I am looking at the look on your face and I know it just goes I. How does she? How do you stay there? I mean I know that you're married and I know that you want it to work out, but that would have been enough I would have been out and here's the thing. She's still so young I. mean you know you look at what you're like now as an adult woman and what you were like when you were nineteen or twenty years old? and. It's like I'm sure she was like what is happening here. This goes against. Everything that I know about right I mean it would go against. I would think but I. don't know I. Mean What especially with somebody who is so invalid in their church, and in those teachings I mean a high this obviously goes against all kinds of religious teachings to be lusting after someone else's wife to be lusting after your son's wife, and at this point I mean had stephen. Exited the church at this point, he already had oh. Yes, Stephen had like gone off the rails Liceu, that must have been really uncomfortable for Susan if she is a devout member of the church to be under someone's roof. WHO has so blatantly disregarded all of the teachings? Yeah, I think that years later we would find out just how twisted Steve's obsession with Susan would become. After police released a copy of his journal and Videos and photos of Susan, which included evidence that he uses small mirror to spy on her while she used the bathroom, he stole her underwear and pantyhose to masturbate with which he filmed himself and collected her use, feminine products, hair and Clippings what wait WHOA rewind. Feminine Products. That is disgusting I'm sorry. I! Don't care how you feel about somebody. Somebody old shirt that they wore because it smells like them is a whole other level than taken a dirty tampon. Adas Nasty. Thank goodness that she she didn't know this at the time I mean. She felt his lake. Spying is but I. think that had sh- and she could feel it, and she knew it, but I mean this takes it to such a level that is, you can't even wrap your your hands around that. You know you really can't. So he also read her adult journals and even posted these crazy love songs online about Susan under a different name, but the obsession came to a hat in two thousand and three, when Steve was so overwrought with his desire for Susan that. He actually told her his feelings. Hoping she would confirm what in his mind. He already believed that she was just as much in love with him as he is with her and this confession like crazily not so crazy because he always had this camcorder with him, was inadvertently captured the audio of it was captured on his recorder, and from that audio recording, two things come through crystal clear that Susan was obviously stunned and upset by his feelings for her. And firmly explained that she loved her husband, and he was her father-in-law nothing else. Now what's messed up completely? Is that Susan told the couple eventually move to West Valley City Utah which is a suburb of salt. Lake City in two thousand four. They said that the move was for job. Opportunities but Susan was just wanted to get away from Steve and this is a part that's just. I mean out of so many heartbreaking parts in the story, but you know, imagine you know your. Your father-in-law's a predator. You tell your husband. And she felt betrayed by Josh because only do not stick up for her to his father, but he wouldn't cut ties with his dad. In fact, he loud his dad to convince him that Susan had misrepresented his advances. Josh would have these long conversations over the phone with his dad. Even though it upset, Susan and Susan believed that Steve was doing it on purpose to break them up, so he could have her for himself now, but Josh was okay with them. Moving to Salt Lake City area to get away from his dad. At least there was maybe like a little bit of give on his side of things like I could see where Susan might think. There was a flicker of hope that their marriage could be saved. Their relationship could be saved if they got away from the Dad, which they did so even though she was still frustrated that they had a relationship I could see where she wouldn't necessarily say that's an I'm leaving because at least Josh took that step of moving away from the area. Yeah, that is true. The sad part is is that I think that you when something like this happens I, mean she is. It's almost like being victimized twice right like I I. I the father in law does this and then the husband. Basically, yes, he takes action, but at the end of the day he's he. He goes back on it, and he like allows his dad to manipulate him into acting like, oh. This was just all in her head. You know she. She deserved it. She wanted I. Don't know what those conversations were, but but it's the same kind of story that we hear when it comes to a woman being or girl being ogled by somebody, and it's quote. Unquote her fault, right? It's just a dysfunctional triangle and Susan documented in her journals. There was also another dysfunction that was being realize that Josh began repeating. A pattern from his own parents marriage when he first met Susan, remember he was hosting those LDS parties, and he was really active in the church, and now like his father, and his marriage, before he was becoming disillusioned with his faith, and began rejecting L. D. S. now on the bright side. Susan got her wish to be a wife and mother Charlie was born in two thousand, five and Brandon in two thousand seven, and even though Susan Urine to have more children to be a stay at home, mom, she continued to work and do really well at her job at Wells Fargo. And she was actually the main breadwinner and I say that actually because Josh. Even still control their every move. How much she spent and belittle her when he felt that she spent too much money on food and essentials. Josh even got rid of their second car because he said it costs too much, and she had to ride her bike back and forth. I mean it's one thing to want to ride your bike on your own, because you want to be healthy, but it's another thing to have your husband. Just sell your car from right underneath you and you have no choice in the matter again. This case is about the emotional abuse I mean to my knowledge I. Don't think he was physically abusive. I find it hard to believe well. Not Hard to believe, but difficult to understand women who would allow her husband to sell her car out from under her. I I couldn't imagine that happening in my household if it even got discussed. I just I can't even imagine that it just sounds. So. Nineteen fifties. I think that their relationship was a real slow roll. You know how sometimes like stuff happens in your life, and like one thing happens, and then another thing, and then you're your tolerance to be able to. Super, manipulative. I don't know I mean I. Find It. I just find it sad because I, think he wore her down, you know. Yeah. Have you ever been worn down? If will yeah, I mean. There are definitely times where it's like. Pick my battles. The the car is like a huge thing and I totally get you saying that, but I mean it's just. It feels like as I've been following the story, it's like. She was worn down and her idea of what she wanted. You know the family the children the church I mean they're so. He just wore her down and and it's sad, because for whatever reason there was always enough meat on the bone for Josh to buy the things that he wanted like computers and expensive tools for himself documents later released by UTAH. Police show that Susan was so unhappy in their marriage that Josh was very controlling as I said emotionally abusive, accusing her of being a religious fanatic, which is sounding exactly like his dad would. She asked for control of our own money, so she could just give tithing to the church. He wouldn't even let her give tithing to the church with her own money. And things have gotten so bad in two thousand eight that Susan went and spoke to a divorce attorney. The attorney advised Susan to take a video documenting the couple's belongings. ME. July twenty, ninth, two, thousand eight. Basis making sure that if something happens to me or my family are all list. Our assets are documented. Hope everything works out moral happy. Live happily ever after such as possible so a month before Susan made that Video July two thousand eight sheet also Kim, she wrote a secret will that she kept in a safe deposit box with directions that Josh not be allowed to see it. In. This letter Susan says quote I wanted documented that there is extreme turmoil in our marriage. She added if I die. It may not be an accident even if it looks like one. Susan's letter documented that she had given Josh an ultimatum to start treating her better, or she would file for divorce, and according to Susan he responded with threats. Quote this is this is Josh there will be no lawyers, only a mediator and I will ruin you. He added quote US Susan would be destroyed, and your life would be over, and the boys will not grow up with a mom and dad and quote. She says in her letter if anything happened to her, she wanted her Dad Chuck Cox to have control over her children. So back to your car. You know how you can't even imagine that I mean I. Think most of can't, but it's like it shows that it's like. She knew that this was not right and she was scared. You know she cared, but it's interesting. Though in that video that in a way she still sounded hopeful that there was somehow going to be a way to save the marriage well, according to the research that I did she kept trying like friends would say get you know. Get away from him. You know and she I think she just couldn't let go of that idea of this family marriage. You know her kids not. Being. You know she didn't want to get a divorce I. think that it just was that traditional life was so important to her that she kept wanting to give him more chances, but Susan's fear for herself and her children. that she documented, but ultimately did little to ensure either her safety or her children's safety, and just over fifteen months later on December six, two, thousand nine. Susan's worst fear would come to pass now. That was a Sunday and Susan and Charlie and Braden went to Church Services Josh stayed at home, and later that day one of Susan's friends and neighbor came over to help her untangle some snarled yarn. And, the neighbor observed John Mickey pancakes for the family which was strange, because you know generally known that Josh refused to cook and according to interviews with Chuck, Cox at Susan's Dad after the disappearance. He believes that Josh put muscle relaxants in the pancakes that he fed to Susan. There's no. Evidence to support that, but that's what he believes. The neighbor said that she left the Powell house at around five o'clock that evening after Susan's suddenly got up and went to lay down because she didn't feel well. And this neighbor would be the last person to see Susan alive the next morning when Susan didn't drop the boys off at daycare. The teacher was immediately worried, so she called Josh's family. Josh's mom and sister went to Susan Josh's home. They noticed there weren't any tire tracks in the snow, and the House looked dessert. Because remember this is Utah. And they couldn't reach Susan Josh on their cell phones, and they had sean about work, either so it didn't take long for them to call nine one one that morning. Because it was just Susan was like. She was always on time. She was very organized. She was very diligent and the daycare lady just knew right away that something just wasn't right, and so police arrived at the Powell home. And the family there the remember the Joshes mom and his sister were worried that the family were were victims of carbon monoxide poisoning, so they got permission from Joshua Stern mom to smash a window and enter the house. The family wasn't there, but police noticed something strange. There was a wet spot on the couch with two box fans blowing at that spot. Susan's purse, her wallet and I D at The house, and it was radio silence from Josh and Susan for the rest of that day, Fam- family was frantic, but around five o'clock. That evening the family was relieved when Josh finally answered his phone and said he was on his way back from a camping trip with the boys where Susan. They asked. Josh claims she should be at work and he didn't know where she was, but she wasn't at work. So Josh was asked to go to the police station. He brought his kids Charlie brain with him during this interview. I mean Q. Imagine that like you get home. It's like getting to be dinnertime and you bring your kids. These little tiny kids like two and four to the police station. You know their MOM's not there. So then Josh unpack this Bizarre Story to detectives that he left his sweep, his sleeping wife at home in the dead of night to take his little boys, four year, old Charlie and two year old Brayden camping in the Utah Desert during snowstorm in sub freezing temperatures, and he had no idea where his wife was. One Detectives Press John About why he didn't tell employer or the daycare provider that he wouldn't be at work and they wouldn't be at school Josh, said that he thought it was Sunday, and not Monday, so he oh, by early. Days messed up. I'm sorry when you have a wife. Who is that into the church? You know when Sunday is. He told me he didn't know. Win Sunday exactly on top of that. Did he have camping gear in his car? Like? was there evidence to support his story at all I think he a definitely think. He had camping gear and his car I think he also had like this huge blow torch. Thing in there, too. Because you know they were making s'mores. Police became even more suspicious as the following days unfolded Josh Josh came home from that camping trip. Police say. That he had Susan Cell. In the minivan with him, the SIM card had been removed, and Josh couldn't explain why he had her phone or why. He had left messages on her voicemail when he had the phone with him right? Detectives also tried to retrace his to retraced Josh's story of camping, but from the beginning, they couldn't find any evidence to support this campsite that Josh had described. And then during search warrants the house, they found a small amount of blood on the floor by the recently claimed Sofa and carpet in their house. And Josh definitely had a motive. A Life Insurance policy worth over a million dollars. Remember in her note. She was scared I. Mean. How scary is that? You had this huge life insurance policy and you're scared that your husband is GonNa, do something to you, so you write, the secret will is just. Unbelievable, and then there was the strange way Josh was acting during his conversations with police, he was more concerned about photographs. They had taken of his hands. You know after when he came into the police department as opposed to concern about his wife's disappearance. Okay. If you're under US On so understood that you're not under arrest passing. On the, Problem, we have estimating as what. Missing Person. By being your wife. And initially this all turned out to be basically missing people entire family. On. That's why we were notified. In home. unsure. Make sure that if there was anybody in there that they were okay. Okay. report. which was obviously concern? Started cutaway house. Keys. To why they? Got, break the window when he started, she had a key. On. Mount Rushmore attention obviously. Okay So. The concern here is obviously you. You mentioned that we talked and by the way is. We spoke yesterday. General stuff from you. All Right! What do what you want us to do? You want us to talk to you. Do not want us to talk to anybody. Just Leo bone overseas shows up. Is what you wants to know. I mean just trying to much. You know what I'm sayin'. Person Tour. Colson Messenger who. Exactly! So. You're telling me that you do not want to commit your talk to meet. Answer my questions. We can try to figure out where potentially she could be. told me that I should have an attorney because you don't know what. was going on. You. said that I'm you know? Pretty much over my head. Is Your. Wife is missing. Basically the detective is like. Why are you not being helpful you as called us because of a missing persons? Called US word is trying to get to the bottom of this. Why why are you not helping us? Don't we want us to find your wife and he was like? Will just as being a total Weirdo and there was something else that raised eyebrows. The day after Susan went missing. Josh went in for another interview. He was like late going in, so josh walked out of the police station after that interview, he didn't wait for the mini van that they were still processing the evidence. They were collecting evidence from it. Instead he called the taxi that picked him up at the police station and drove him to the Salt Lake City Airport Josh rented a car for two days during that time, he racked up over eight hundred miles on the car. Now had no idea where he went or what he was doing, and there were other red flags. Josh withdrew Charlie and Brayden from daycare cash in Susan's. Susan's retirement accounts and canceled her regularly scheduled chiropractic sessions, and then also during interviews of close friends and workers police say that one person that they interviewed alleged that Josh had told them if he wanted to get rid of a body, he would hide it in an abandoned mine shaft that the UTAH. Desert was full of them and they are. The Utah Desert is full of them. Yeah also when they interviewed four year old Charlotte about who went camping. Charlie said his mom went with them, but added that his mom didn't come back with them. It's heartbreaking. I know. Next week and part two of the disappearance of Susan Powell will continue to peel back the layers of Susan's disappearance. How Josh packed up? Charlie and Brayden go live with his dad. A home investigators would refer to later as a house of horrors. So, many warning signs went unheeded. Only the devil himself could have foreseen how Susan's precious little angels would suffer. At the hands of their own father. I'm Carolina Soriano with Kim Shepard and this is the scene of the crime.

Susan Josh Susan Susan Powell Charlie Brayden Josh Powell Susan Cox Kim Shepard Josh Ironic Susan Cell Steve Literally Stephen Erica Joshua Stern UTAH Susan Urine lds Powell home Salt Lake City Wang Dan
Side Stories: Blast From The Past

Last Podcast on the Left

55:59 min | 1 year ago

Side Stories: Blast From The Past

"Lactobacillus nineteenth we will be in Miami. If you're in Miami coming out and see the show we're gonNA have a great time it's going to be a lot of fun look at our beautiful beach pods and hey what's up everyone how you doing Benjamin Kissel here letting you know we are going to be in Florida October eighteenth we will be in Tampa Florida was seven pm a woman the only way I can describe it is that she had wacky knees that's if I was the dean of Your College Doggy doggy dog indeed thing film I am an artist or as veto likes to say because I love love them to death when an actor becomes a writer up to a man who was in just boxer briefs off and he opened so tell room handed her a packet she handed director which is why I don't I don't need that level of control that's why I have survive five allows me to control and Mike got it I saw an active drug dealer really full full on drug deal in the hotel that we were staying at Dude I it was just like out and open call is he's counting his money he looks face and goes hey man how you doing like he was like I didn't just witness Johny literally went like he ran back to the car scuttled back to the car and then he and I mean it was so nice he looked at me and he lantis no I thought Philadelphia's home of the Horse Shit eaters yet is now that's a good jab at the eagles fans all right everyone welcome decides talk on the left side stories that's one cannibalism started doors I'm in the baby down in Atlanta really what are you doing in Atlanta shooting a short film with Matthew Sir Vida stop by shouldn't see hey man that's Atlanta it's a beautiful place full of full of brotherly love no longer Philadelphia's Mon- Monica it is now Dana idea that you'd be upper class but no doubt I'm in Atlanta and man I love it I tell you what it's been a while Atlanta's still me auditioning the play the dean of the Marquette University that where you went Milwaukee mark for the rich kids and do I know I'm sorry to to to try to even yours I am Ben hanging out with Henry's brow ski who was out there busting his rump eighty people act are the people make et micromanage and entire society would yes scratch the itch of being a director absolutely he doesn't have like a shot list isn't that a lot of organism two one show come to two shows dare I say unto all three shows we can't wait to see you there hail yourselves to escape to the loss because keep saying we're playing jazz here about avenue that is exactly what I want my director to be saved and Oh oh he's Satan on your pretty face is going to hell and by short film of course he means everyone is a five foot six perfect similarly I am I am playing a special effects horror makeup person okay and I am dressed exactly like Shane Morton who is work if you saw the hit film Mandy he is the Creator the designer the God behind the puppet that is Cheddar Madeleine Brumby his girlfriend of many years who is very talented actress who does a lot of stuff again in the art community of Atlanta a girlfriend who who they've been together for a long time I'm just going to say basically common law wife at this point yes if there is any ingests it so there's no rules that what you're saying no rules just right as outback we've turned this film set into outback but you know we're just making it up as we go but I am dressed as and then all you do is hack it up well you know it's very interesting I guess I would like to see sort of what they used to do on room raiders when they would take the black light into teenagers the creative designer for your pretty face is going to hell so it's a fun inside joke for the Atlanta film community we're having a good time absolutely and of course Shane Morton you might recognize China and then none of them like on was like licking and like pulling it off with her teeth and Oh my it's fun it's very creative but to sell you something legal I am not really sure if this is I think this is red flag porno but as long as no one is really getting hurt as well open mouths and all the stuff he loves strange life but it's like there's so many of his his Mus- he works with his co worker nick sits out like Zombie non Khan and literally eat her vagina and he created a mold of a vagina over her I used to be way more like kind of be level it's horror porn it's horror porn and so would start with a bunch of naked chicks like he showed me the human mind psychologically your lover right you like you mold and cast your lover's body in many ways room called the spare parts room workshop out in the middle like rule Georgia and as you go it's just all nothing but disembodied like tents and video of this one time he did a shoot where was two nuns it was like a Zombie Cannibal none and normal non that was tied down and they had this but there are so many of her disembodied heads around the spare parts room imagine what it would be like what does what it does what does it do the great actress Barbara Compton Crompton Prompt Crampton Barbara Crampton now she was very upset by the scene in reanimator when the chain does which I think is interesting he definite- because he was made he made a bunch of workable sex toy su he separates so he fucks the stuff he uses for will. Shane does a lot of he works a little bit in Nagorno community what's were no Gorno is at the time it was we of this episode in such graphic detail specifically when it comes to Gordo we'll Gordo's highly interesting but he's trying to back out of it because it's becoming a little too realist rooms and then we put it over their beds and they'd be like that's a lot of come I do WanNa see a black light I wanna see it over the heads the severed heads of his word had did exactly what Henry mentioned the none did to that other woman longest she was very upset about it she stormed out of the movie premiere but now she's leaned customers and their customers like a girl to really be dead and like I know you want the girl to really be dead I know but we're trying and she loves it she's a horror goddess and you know I think she has a good career in front of her and behind dare I say she's a beautiful woman and she's an incredible performance work he will though I don't think he sucks his own I don't think he gets hired as you do you think he knew we were going to talk about him for the first ten minutes this upside stores L. P. O. T. L. at gmail.com I've never heard of Gorno before again as long as everyone is safe hey you know what do do what you want do I really don't care get it out and get it out people are getting their buttonholes gay people like mouths all this is fucking America you go out there and you dick he likes to it at more like he wants it to be more fun campy where the guys are listening to the yourself sex workers have the possibility to fucking save our world oh I love them workers if you're out there you take this message you have opportunity if you're with some of these important people help cement it's about being down to clown there it is all throughout but I'm just saying Shane Morton does really good work and I've seen some of his legit sex toy oh because what you do is you can make you can make them do whatever they want the moments before they come absolutely well speaking of giving bottles stories a little a bit old but I did just want to mention it because for some reason it's just sometimes very small amounts of justice in this world Ian Watkins remember that Dude from the last prophets unfortunate eamon stains on there then I do think we have to have a conversation and we have to say this has now transcended art into dark fantasy into potential murder ten more months in prison he's there for twenty nine years but I'm going to think that he should probably just stay there forever but he got ten more months because he was smuggling a mobile phone in his bottle yeah I think I could see you start you start tied up the white shirts hey y'all steak that phone was jangled around inside of his gaping butthole much like Yahtzee dice here's a lot of room nerd all of you there and you're sucking on Jeff bezos right before he blows it you be like hey give ten dollars towards climate change there Goblin and I got my Cheddar and yeah and that's why he went to anyone but we all day long all we do is we're in his workshop so like the whole place we're in what he asked me has it is kind of still sad to me because national geographic remember when they used to cover like African Safaris out our national geographic is just like human it it's it well it's better than what I thought it was thought it would be a full rotisserie chicken would be worse Tormo man I can't you can't start a conversation like that she really you're pushing no no no that reminds me of the scene from re animator everybody's all I've met a lot of the girls involved there fm they're all alive. Oh Yeah I've seen I'm not like checking their bands to see their intact good would be such a succulent little man in their sauntering around with my fun attitude that they just can't wait to wreck you would actually I think that you would lean in Oh yes yes this disgusting man he had sex with the baby he and his girlfriend I mean truly fucking evil he's good he's truly evil disgusting man but he just got sentenced to the only about shave business technically a positive plug for Shane's work is all right well so again Halloween countdown doing thirty one thirty one I'm going to shout out some more movies than I watched this week good because I'm only I don't like doing the negative one I also I'm just glad it wasn't a baby thank thank God thank God but anyway because we have some rock and roll metal fans out there excited they were when Eddie money went into serve a couple of days in jail I saw someone guy was very very funny really I was Eddie money in there for I don't know some long story I gotta find the episode and You know that this is not one of those like really nice new small like whatever like touch phones this is rick in walk you're in prison what he in for the baby well let's just how do we begin the abuse butthole could fit a watermelon zoo but it is fascinating it's fascinating subculture yes indeed fresh out the pen man it's get all your questions answered he talked about how last prophet story if you haven't heard about it checked out we're not gonNA go into detail but metal Vance no but it is disgusted ardent mirren is fucking fantastic they do get some of the satanism stuff wonky but I don't blame them but they did a lot of good work with the demons gets you finally in my pocket Ooh yes indeed I just spent about his what it's aspect of it they moved away from there's a soul of serial killer inside of a dull but they revamped it it's more technological based and I thought it was absolutely wonderful and making fun of sexual assault within the prison because that is a very true thing and that's not fair that's not good but this Zine Watkins we're talking about I'm paying my taxes getting this and you got it I thought it was such a fun revamp I don't WanNa spoil anything here but the reason that I will say it's not so they kind of moved away from the spiritual and the main actress there from Oh my God checks checks and regulations parks and Restoration Parts Huzzah Aubrey Plaza did a wonderful job and you know what did it's another one of those moments where I realized we are a Jane she plays a mother it's a franchise film people kind of criticized it they said Oh that's not what the main character should look like the new child's play have you seen in new child's play the celebrity that they were hanging out with in jail and he was signing autographs I forget who the hell it was not been eddie money but I gotta find out who it was alright otherwise the outside of it's pretty pretty great in the movie haunt has a really fun premise also my love I watched Henry yes this is like the Zack Morris like you have to pull an antenna out from it you know it's like Click Click Click Click Click it's the size of a small dinner plate but you can just imagine is in prison and it's sort of weird it's a little bit like dystopia and I'm like I don't like to study these humans like they are animals and headshot of Brendan Fraser sign he said thanks for the meal I was in the mummy I love this flint absolutely so they were living with a man in a farmhouse basement for nine years no contact with the outside world whatsoever and then the Dutch family they were found living in a basement for damn near a decade preparing for the end of the world so it was six siblings ages eighteen to twenty four author's edition to play fathers and it's like I could barely raise my dog I pay raise a child that the man was the father of the children this is according to Mayor Roger degroot he said during a press conference that he was not related to the Sibley his name Karnal Kid Ted hours of lockup on National Geographic and some of the positive one I have one that houses on his well satanic panic because a lot of fun it's really good with Rebecca remain she's fantastic in it so these kids were there with a man who was just a farmer and so He escaped property the eldest sibling did he's twenty five years old stuff we're gonNA start with this one kissel you got this one this is this is fun this got sent to quite a bit so I was excited to cover it this one is absolutely insane and it reminds me only one of the dudes was able to leave he escaped in the middle of the night went into a bar and now it's the first thing he did Well we got some stories that we've got some stories today very very excited Halloween is upon us it is yes it is so we have some very very exciting wreck checks restorations I love that it's banned at three o'clock in the morning and accountants fucking storage unit Aubrey live which that is what do they call that Irish twins on top of Irish twins on top of Irish twins that that is a no condom sex sat there drake as beers and that's when the bar owner Chris Westerbeek finally just had a conversation with them you know what I kind of understand right I've been trapped with these kids and this Handyman Joseph and God knows how he's kept me in this room honestly even for me of this film blast from the past starring of course the Great Brenton Frazier I saw someone showed a there was a restaurant that they ate at and he saw you were part of this horrific set of circumstances we don't really know a lot of the details of the story right they were being held there by name Yosef B who was a handyman they found the five over the kids after the elderly after the oldest oldest of them was founded the bar when they found him I went to the pub in Runar runar woulld he didn't just order a beer he ordered five cents yeah he likes us to a high school student and now she's a mom a thirteen year old I'm like Oh my God you should see me at these auditions playing look like it I try to like I'm treading idea of interacting with the child like high heel hello shake their hands like it's a businessman so at this point he didn't even run into the Barbie like we need help we're stuck in a far we've been there for a decade while your is it who's the president he to speak about this Ryan needs some bears like I need to slide some emotional onto me before I can even see it against their will they really believed that the world had ended because apparently he had suffered a stroke because when the cops broke in long hair a dirty beard wore old clothes and looks confused that he goes to five beers it might have been the five beers so bar owner Chris Vaster beak described the young child the first thing he did it he got to a bar and got himself a beer yes he did so well many multiple outlets reported the rapper that brought them on stage but they had fun and I think that's great but the strange thing is the fifty eight year old man that had these people I don't think that they worked suffered a stroke which seemed to be a few years ago so I maybe they firmly just believed that the world had ended which has got to be kind of trippy then that made the oldest son like finally because you are trapped in your trapped in your father's sick mind it's like the movie frailty where you're like and there were like Yo dude what's going on they looked behind the living room cupboard and that's where they found that fifty year old man fifty eight year old man lying in bed after he to come out into the world it's sort of like your holy shit I it's got to be interesting I wonder I hope we get this whole story wonder what it was mayor degroot says he's never seen anything like it and thank God because can you imagine if he was just like yeah well we had a similar situation about four or five months back explain what the fuck happened to me like I imagine with the girls that dealt with Ariel Castro had to deal with immediately afterwards we'll just went to the rap concert I believe they were brought on stage doesn't seem at this point as it is Joseph Frizzell case who by the way is still alive though he's guys are the US ace so you've been held against your will right right years you filing somehow gets we don't know exactly how they were held against their will just know I can see how your which by the way again thanks so much for the unbelievable response to the mormonism series that is one of just awesome to hear the response thank you so much but when we covered Warren Jeffs is all the horse of the outside world but you might have to blow and father and you might have been told that you needed remake the human race with your sisters maybe we don't know a tiny clip but there's all section where he's just like your show the Lord how much you love me and in going like a man whole of and this is where you should also do your own research because it's very very interesting this is the disappearance of Susan Cox Powell Now this happened two thousand so throw it on the pile oh you mean one of these stay families families honestly in the end they don't have to deal with we could have real life stuff here you got some stuff I want to talk about this just real quick okay this because again putting it on your radar of Shit to watch because your father this is just again a red I don't even know how they met this guy they said they don't they're not really sure what the fucking relationship is nine she was a woman that went missing from West Valley City Utah she was a mother of two that was married to a main Joshua Powell who's never charged the right term for it and also yeah it's all I mean we were I was I texted Henry after our mormonism series after part after the final one part six we are we it somewhere never we didn't do it in depth and we will do it someday for some reason marcus gets all upset about all the daddy making love to babe because making love is Wii fucking happens like this but Josh Powell was a total sociopath that essentially took him there too young going for forever like it could've started with the mom and they could have been raised with this shape we do how old the sun is either and mayor the people that live forever yes if you WanNa know more about fruitful I believe we covered him in a last podcast episode breathe a little bit about this a couple of episodes ago on side series sons they had two young sons were seven and five okay and how works is so Susan Cox Powell goes missing himself constantly like he had this this whole like library of film where he was filming her without her knowing filming himself showering and Dan oh a man had come in ordered five beers and then he the first thing he said I had to chat with him and he reveals how drawn away then because cooperated all this shit saying that Josh was innocent Baba Blah will you go to find out is the father and the son and a man he's making love to his wife's like he's making love to seven nervous child rights and making love not the right term I think I'd rather in her were a part of this but she was unwilling member of a sexual triangle where the father was sexually obsessed with his daughter Gorno Gordo's two consenting adult yes fantasy it's fair to my goodness all right well Hitler Ain't me okay became a very famous case I remember it vaguely when it came out but this is generally connected to the LDS Church because obviously all these people are Mormon which is he's always good at cultivating interesting true crime stories comes obsessed with and then sends them to me and this is one that I ended up falling into a little bit of a walking back home and I was like man I'm so depressed why don't you and it's like Oh yeah that's right so the child the child abuse of just covered for three hours that I've tasted remember ninth ray overnight he tells everybody that that she just laughed she just left in the night she left her seven and five year old and left Israel's like I think I figured out why I was sad he's like yeah bro yet is sitting with that ship for six weeks we didn't even show some of the stuff just for time I'm working an offer to give her a massage own my and so we sat and massaged his daughter-in-law's feet in the living Karadzic moment today no most erotic moment in her life the most erotic moment in my life Susan's feet were tired I know that the other kids they think that the mother might have died a long time ago seems like they just kept this line of Bullshit in law building her collecting her underwear her toenail clippings her like you're like fucking cleaning out her ears he filmed ping up and becoming more and more sadistic and the father was becoming credibly sexually excited openly in front of his own daughter in law can he did this whole whole just leaders ordered five being like I don't need the gaps in time in between no why why bother at the the fuck out right and she is now would you have them find out over time on the surface of course there at this very happy. LDS Family and Susan was very devout Orman that was trying to get her because Josh stopped going to church like as they were developing their relationship so he's stopped being a part of Josh sociopaths so was being cooked by his own dad like this yes and he kinda likes it and the father likes it and she is trying to get tell you no matter what and she listened because she was a devout Mormon basic being like I can't get divorced so she started as abuse in front of Joshua and Josh the whole time it's like I'm married Good Night Dad Oh my she is getting he's becoming more and more abusive over the years wjr psychological thing look it up dateline has an incredible episode about it and the ladies go missing channel oxygen they also have on and and that's why it's all her fault and they were living with his father stay Powell and they all tsing wearing her underwear he wrote loves songs to her he then confessed his love to her because in one video he said I had happened to Mommy and daddy said he took her on a camping trip where we go to look for gemstones which is they used to go D- hunting the mountains of Utah and Mommy just never came back like they just went as they never came the killed we don't know these details so the Gorse October twentieth we will be in Orlando we cannot wait to see you all in Florida we don't know when we're going to be back so please really good documentary on it so long story short I'm going to spoil I'M GONNA spoiler alert spoiler alert Berber persona learn missing what's there trying to register a dead bright because I mean she's just fucking gone they interviewed the Sun they interviewed Charlie Powell her okay oldest son being like showing a showing her how hard that he would she would make him he then confessed his love to her in a car and the key videotaped it because he was trying to destroy their Mary the Church okay she didn't say but the stuff that he decided to cling to was all the the husbands the head of the household. You're supposed to do what I tell you to do we're just as good if if you look up the Warren Jeffs sex tape we'll shooting now there's a whole section because it's we played a little bit of it we played win custody in court but then they decide to give him a visitation day even though like they shouldn't have no Josh and the Susan Cox Powell note that all of this shit is coming out and then they fucked so they file for custody of the kids so they go they get custody of the kids they win it on that property it's a three bedroom two bathroom house in the Chicago Birth to two thousand five hundred square feet and the lot itself is just under nine thousand square feet it's going again for almost half a million dollars it's marketed as quote a beautiful brick home with an update kitchen that overlooks a huge backyard. And the Eric how far outside of downtown Chicago like how far like for main city Chicago let's see here I'm not finding that information but ninety thousand dollars automated or something I mean you can't just blow it up I'm certain that it's good property and you know that you can really do a lot with it yep and currently the House that is we are no fun secret like aw Kissel I brought you surprised sandwich thank you you know when it comes with the naughty seed though it's real estate to it we're super into it it's real estate and stocks that's how you grow your wealth I've seen at least fifteen instagram videos now so I'm getting pretty good at this stuff you know what I did I wanted to get more serious about my money so you know what I did a balloon lawsuits we will the question marks over it so you can you can mission was killed or kids or whatever it might be I don't know why Secrets Become Naughty seats I you know fun secret for several years and it's just and again it's connected to mormonism badges very interesting anytime society is built upon secrets indeed those secrets or something Oh my God so everyone is dead now in the story yes entire family wiped out Oh my God all right we'll check in differently for a measly four hundred fifty nine thousand dollars it's not the home no they tore that down but it is the property you can live on the property father for for child porn they found him of a heart attack which is how all of this shit's coming out so watch this dateline special this thing's fucking before debt and now she's lip in at she's flipped it Henry that adage that's over four hundred thousand dollar in in just straight that serial killer John Wayne Casey murder thirty three boys upon so it's still there the property is still there they couldn't tear down the property what are you gonNa do I mean honestly three bedroom two bath yes three bedroom two bath and I gotta saying talking about making money with real estate the woman who bought this house she the house he pushed the CPS dude out of the house he grabs the kids pulls them in the house locks the door and blows up the house kill him and the two kids that aren't like we have too much ice cream on Wednesdays don't let anyone know it's always father wants to fuck daughter-in-law or it's in the fucking house so he's dead and the father went to jail for guess what Public House Jordan Child Bore Chicago's a beautiful place but my God those winters are a bit brutal owning like the wintertime but otherwise it's a great investment yeah yeah who knows up winning money dude man you know what I think will be fun now we would be funding to do because you know because of your crime and know how pervasive it's because did you better be fucking updated you had better be up you can all needs a bit of a Jewish so pogo costume everyday in front of the House just like waving at the kids all goes back they are the ones who are wrapping the seller Robert Piccirillo Robert Carello is who you're gonNA WANNA talk to for Perello real realty and yeah you could live in a home that is upon the ground that M- that saw thirty three kids murdered so that's a little a little investment advice although it's on a surprise birthday party those are fun and he had to have a dog you can throw a surprise birthday party for a dog because they're always surprise yeah because he don't know they're not consciously tip of it and maybe he's constant pain and maybe he's a walking carnival exhibition but at the same time just because of the sheer curiosity he the land in one thousand nine hundred eighty six for thirty thousand dollars and She built the house for her retiring parents because she wanted them to be haunted right it come on it Henry Wells let's let's do really quick real estate news because you know we always cover real estate because that's how you make I mean you are right though at this point with the serial killer trend I mean ride the wave as long as you can because it's GonNa crash in fall like at some point we're gonNA wake up as a country the world's tallest made ebor yet did forget his last name Ebor is dangerously tall eight feet bigger he's not Iki really cruise through my little manners guard Oh but he is he's in a lot of pain will they say that the vein the human vein system time with you maybe have so much more understanding of your plight of what your people go through the nightmare people go through and it's a nightmare except for like all the other Oh get the surgery he can get a surgery stop growing guard mood Mideast route herb his giant giant I just did actually she is being cool she always has been she's looking next God I know that's why I love her special on the world's tallest man ebor it can't go eight feet so he had a I guarantee you his ankles are dead like he's got to do something special I thought that I don't spend exist whatever the chaos swirling does these these these rivers of time and that we are on my friend Sometimes Chimaera San and eager there's please tell me are still have feet to ours do I still have ankles and so it's not it's it's it is a home that is actually if you look at the new picture the House today it is very pretty it's nice it's landscaped all strange I have no I don't at some point you know girls say they like a big man but they think of Jason Momoa they're not thinking why to fight I'd like my beer and then they pushed him to the front and then what does little Hamas seidel hey do hey brought a weapon to a fish like why did we talk about murder for five years can we get back to like how like what what's Martha Stewart doing she's being cool whatever time boat you're in takes you you're going to go how was I don't know though you're talking about rivers of time I spent a lot of weed in your last night perspective but I feel that there are a lot of arguments here I'm usually perspective it was everyone knew battle was sword and uh added societal benefits yeah absolutely everyone you know the grass is those chicks of all over the world to try to see Gore's hog like he can't feel uh-huh I'm just saying Goliath unfortunately or fortunately was the right man for the job to die at the hands of a small man whose job house-backed because this is the time to do a deterrent to it all to you turn it into the Strip club from beetlejuice absolutely so if you want to reach out to prela realty skins tucker on something bad he's got he's got very big head I mean he's very big but his whole thing is that he believes that God is punishing him why starting him no okay this is actually a sweet story so so a man passed away in Ireland and that is very very sad but I'm in yeah all frigate life era I mean like like like it's going to come out there there's just some guy who's going to buy this shit and you just seems like you're buying high now technically WANNA buy low like the chicken in nineteen eighty six yeah and you know what it is to promise don't like the winter yeah no I mean accent all of a sudden from inside the casket rings out Hello Hello Let's let me out head oh around like some weird things about how his bones are getting all the quirky crooked because just like he's running out of skin sue the bones can grow something like that 'cause budget fistfight there are times you are born with a set of circumstances and sometimes fate is GonNa put you where you're supposed to be unfortunately right if they fate watch that packer game the entire time we had sex is it tougher here of the week yeah do you hear the week all right let's do hero of the week eh be out it's pretty it's pretty funny this very al roker story very very grimly but then he goes on to say where the fuck am I let me out of this fucking front of you I'm dead yeah it's very very very funny he did a really good job yes and then Bradley's voice launched into any guy and so as they were lower in him into the grave debate pipes our plan and then all of a sudden Henry perhaps you can do this in in Irish green suffered a lot like the the small heaven they know small if not us the story of the small and this is why David versus Goliath. I've always been Chris Kyle looks like Tommy Boyce father from Tommy Boy Denny Yeah so let me guess how he died five heart attacks at once the most likely but he was Lynne's laughed and you know what he is just really twitter got wind of it which is that's huge it got one point five million re tweets or team Goliath I don't care because they goliath didn't WanNa fight he was just like I'm here for the beer and they're like no go to the front lines you gotta fight for things like song he crooned I just called to say goodbye and he said he wanted to leave the mourners not not crying but laughing and indeed the mourners did David first of all I was like oh it was a little slingshot that was top grade stuff that we know that Goliath I understand you fighting for goliaths per and a shield and that was I had to go it's all about some again a w w no that's true God knows the packers got very lucky beaten the lions laugh his mother laughed because he died before his mother even though he was like sixty and I guess she's like what are those strong one hundred ten year old Irish women and was to society to kill him that was the equivalent David is the David is the I N. Cell Mass shooter no he did he rise slip the refs helped out a little bit I know in me and Greg we went out to see the game and the first thing you said to me is can I sit on your lap and I say only go you're my wife and because you might as well just be gone because of the wind down there man it's scary the giant fuller have suffered a lot and take take take heartache I know everyone has so many odd takes okay Henry do we have living being on every planet in the universe or easy just to save your this planet we're dinosaurs around in the garden of Eden Blah Blah who is big foot was the looking dark in here which Kinda gets really scary and then he says is that the priest I can hear and then he says this is Shay I'm in the box no my funeral like like me with automated hand waving I would love that and his wife said you got him good papa bear and gave us all a laugh just when we needed it so there you go that's a hero that we don't think that's actually very nice it is nice I honestly think it's really nice the funny story and it's uplifting the first is like a little bit of factoid that I wanted to talk about when we were doing the Mormons mormonism series but we had so much bullshit to go through that I just forgot to mention it and mentioned whatever bunch who gives a shit but either way I hope I always had a you're a dream that I would do the thing that if I give you someone sent an email about it so I wanted to read it to you this comes from Jay Agree Very Mormon discussions on camp outs long boring days as missionaries would often turn to discussions growing charming and funny is but then I watched a video with him and he's like Lou Hirsch because my boobs and evening twilight when brother Patton rode up to my father's house alighted from his bill came into the House the family immediately observed that his countenance wing passage as I was riding along the road in my mule I suddenly noticed a very strange personage walking is being here walked long worry in this is when we're closest to ellen this is this is our moment to ellen except we don't Hobnob with war criminals them to my funeral I I would just prop up my body in the wake room like before you go to the thing and you just like hello welcome to what they call deep doctrine Mormons called when they pull tiny bits of Mormon lower and apply it to the mysteries of the universe to Jesus die for the sins of every I know but people who are highly controversial I feel like we could see the emails me many wives he is social I don't what happened to this controversial President from nineteen seventy to nineteen seventy-two we didn't get a full term what I mean how fast he came and went maybe it was the fucking what's his name Deville and at the end of readers loss arc de brother and relation to the subject of the visit K.. Two this is where I heard about Mormon bigfoot but the story originates in Li- circuses a Wilson's book life of David W Patten can I just ask it was quite changed my mother having I noticed his changed apparent said probably Pathan he replied that he was not but he just I did my own separate research briefly okay and it's true they believe Kane from the old story of Cain and Abel is a huge man that forever wanders the Earth Hey emails coming in do you have any emails this week because I know we got a bunch of emails to get to these next two shows yes I have some fun once I wanna go through them the I get to wanted to rip US apart we've seen the game rampage and we'd be like that in Manhattan right now I have seen I've seen some video human to ever live curse to wander the earth forever Oh my goodness but that's not a big foot is a very nice scripted it's only peaceful David W Patten and the state of Tennessee about what you wrote to me I will say that according to the best of my recollection it was in the month of September eighteen thousand five it was he constantly Ramdan about bigfoot where they're like you gotta go dude he just died of Fuckin- old man rod one of these fucking pieces of shit that all look like the what every scout leader has ever heard this story is told me that bigfoot sightings were not chance encounters with an elusive prehistoric ape but narrow misses with Cain the most evil of bigfoot we've read some stuff of bigfoot being sexually aggressive yeah you have because you love your bigfoot I don't your your sexy doc I asked him where he and he replied that he had no he was a wonderful the earth and travelled to and fro he said he was a very miserable creature even to us at the time the damages to the best of my recollection but I think it is correct but it may possibly have been in the spring of eighteen thirty six but I feel quite positive earth covered in hair wandering through the forests and byways of America Kane is being put Cain is big foot and what does that sound like to you not just the these are always taking the face value within the church the Mormons have read this story they believe I have actually now this Henry speaking this is that had earnestly sought death earning his journey upon the earth and that he could not die and his mission was to destroy the souls of men about the time pasta my lower all right so I'm GonNa try to this is a long email but I'm gonna try to trunk eight this because it's fucking really good join a volunteer group it didn't work out so they ended up getting on the train to go home Oguz the story I get on the train red line northbound he walked across my field division to take the seat on the other side of the train hit a bow his head in order to enter the train very very tall man he needs started to profusely cold sweat he sat down on the furthest seat to the door next to the call conductor button across the aisle where was seated in the same type of seat the ones reserve okay so this young so this young person had traveled to Chicago and was looking for friends the young person went and they tried to redesign scrolling time again and again so I keep this man in my Peripheral Vision Oga Detroit comes up from underground beside me for about two miles his head was about even with my shoulders as I even sat at my battle he wore no clothing but was covered with hair is getting acre and made a soup from it out of my peripheral vision I also saw that while he was also very tall he had these thick creepers choose there's a bunch of sunlight suddenly and this is when I realized that his clothes were pinned together with shining silver pens like what a Taylor redo his clothes were really reflective and the choose pants that were all too short for him neat white socks that were staying Brown on one

Miami Shane Benjamin Kissel Josh Chicago Charlie Powell Susan Cox Powell Chris Kyle Warren Jeffs Gordo Gorno Florida Nagorno Utah Orlando Eric Tommy Boyce Joshua
Susan Powell

GONE

40:48 min | 5 months ago

Susan Powell

"Due to the graphic nature of this episode listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of emotional abuse child pornography and murder that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen on December. Sixth two thousand nine snow fell lightly on the roof of Susan and Josh Powell's home in suburban West Valley City Utah just eleven miles outside of Salt Lake City. Twenty eight year old. Susan was exhausted or two. Young boys were running around the house and she was struggling to keep up. His wasn't the life she dreamed of but it was the one she had. Susan had spent the last few hours knitting blankets for her two sons. The one for her oldest Charlie had come out fine but the other for two year. Old Brayden was a disaster. Luckily she knew the perfect person to call for how it was early evening. When her friend? Giovanna owings came over. Susan wasn't feeling well and appreciated Giovanna 's willingness to help out as they make progress on the blanket Susan's husband. Josh went into the kitchen to prepare dinner when they all sat down to eat. Giovanna thought it was sweet. That Josh Served Susan her food first but she could tell. There was some tension. Nevertheless she held her tongue. Susan's marriage was none of her business. After dinner they kept working on the blanket but Susan was getting more tired with each passing minute soon. She excused herself claiming she felt tired and was going to lie down. Giovanna stayed help finish the blanket but at five thirty PM. Josh said he and the kids were going out sledding. She took it as her cue to leave and glanced back toward the bedroom. She hoped Susan would feel better soon. But that wouldn't be the case by the next morning the entire family was missing and Susan would never be found. Welcome to gone a podcast original molly. And I'm Richard every other Monday. We examined mysterious disappearances and the theories they spawned from the Amber Room to Michael Rockefeller Picasso paintings to the entrusting language the roanoke colony to the lost Russian cosmonauts. If it's gone we're looking for it. You can find all episodes have gone and all other are cast. Originals for free on spotify. Or wherever. You LISTEN TO PODCASTS. To Stream Gone Freon spotify. Just open the APP and type gone in the search bar at podcast cast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network? And if you enjoyed today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening. It really does help today. We're looking into the disappearance of Susan Powell. A mother of two from a quiet suburb outside of Salt Lake. City UTAH. Despite the Powell families picture-perfect exterior the in crisis after years of marital strife Susan vanished on the evening of December. Sixth two thousand nine. Two theories have emerged to explain what might have happened to her. Some believe that Susan may have dropped everything and run away with the lover others think that Susan never had a chance to leave because her jealous husband Josh murder. Susan Cox was a precocious ten year old. When her parents moved to the suburbs of Tacoma Washington in nineteen ninety one she was the third of four girls and her parents were used to having their patients tested the household as a whole was incredibly loving. There were also deeply religious and regularly attended a local Mormon temple. Susan's faith became a cornerstone of her life and dictated many of her decisions. She and her three sisters often played music and saying during Church Services. Her happy supportive. Upbringing helped Susan grow into confident. Bubbly Young Woman. She was extremely outgoing and her classmates knew her for her great sense of humor. She was popular and widely liked by the time she started high school. Susan had planned out her entire life. She was going to marry the perfect Mormon guy and open up a business with her sisters. A beauty parlour groomer hybrid where pet owners and their animals could both get their hair done. They were going to call it. Beauty and your beast. It was a fun youthful dream as Susan. Got Older or goals became more grounded. But she never let go of her love of the beauty industry when she was eighteen. A local cosmetology school offered her a scholarship and she sees the opportunity when Susan graduated from High School in two thousand. Her Future was looking bright. She dove headfirst into her classes at beauty school. She was often spotted around town in her car. Upon closer inspection passersby would notice a pile of practice mannequin heads strewn across the back seat. Susan's friends were always sporting new hairdos. Susan had styled. While Susan worked hard in school she was still completely committed to the church and she was still looking for a future. Mormon husband which was incredibly important in her religion. The summer after she graduated high school she began to attend singles functions. That are local temple there. Eighteen year old. Susan met twenty-three-year-old Josh Powell. It wasn't love at first sight when he invited her to a dinner party at his apartment she turned him down however a few weeks later. Susan changed her mind and took him up on the offer. Maybe they were more people. She could meet their but surprisingly at the party. She found herself drawn to Josh. He was a little Dorky but she liked his dry sense of humor. He was different from the boys she'd met in high school. He seemed more adult. Sure he'd never gone on his mission which was considered a pre Iraq for a good Mormon husband but he was in church now so Susan believed his faith was pure class. Josh was enrolled in the business program at the University of Washington Tacoma which meant he was thinking of the future. She decided to stay late after one of his dinner parties to help him clean up and wound up staying over. They talked early into the next morning falling asleep while whispering secrets to one another. He told her his parents divorced when he'd been a teenager. And the turbulent home. He'd grown up in. He wanted a tough line with his dad was not only agnostic but staunchly. Anti Mormon citizens sympathized with Josh's struggles and admired his appearance commitment to the faith. They soon began to date. After only two months Josh proposed to Susan and she said Yes while it may have seemed fast to those outside of the community too many Mormons. It isn't unusual. The couple was married in a small ceremony at the Portland Oregon Temple in April. Two Thousand One shortly after the wedding. They decided to move in with Josh's father. Steve Powell the couple one to save money after all Josh needed to pay off his student loans however the life they found in Steve's home was less than ideal the house was crowded several of Joshua's siblings were living there with their families. To and Josh's Dad was odd. He often had his video camera on hand and recorded everything. He came across even the most private moments and often without permission. That wasn't the only source of frustration. Citizens started to feel pressure. Put Her dreams on hold. Josh was close to graduating with his bachelors and neither knew where they go after he got his degree. If he found a job out of state she didn't know if she could finish beauty school but Susan told herself didn't matter she loved Josh so she was okay waiting for him to make the big decisions about their lives in two thousand two. Josh graduated from the University of Washington Tacoma with a business degree it was joyous time for both his hard work. It paid off and they were going to really start their life together but Joshua's various business plans never panned out. He lacked follow through. He got an entry level job. But they stayed at Steve's House Josh couldn't afford to pay off his loans and make rent and things were own getting stranger at home. Stephen taken an odd liking to his daughter-in-law he regularly made awkward comments about Susan's body. She acted as if nothing was happening. Only shrugging them off. Hoping he'd get the hint but Steve Only escalated his attention. Susan could tell someone was going through her laundry sometimes. Her underwear would go missing. She tried to ignore it. It might have been one of her young nephews just playing around but she could never shake the thought that it could have been Steve. Two in two thousand and three things came to ahead. Josh had considered becoming a commercial truck driver and Susan went along with him to a practice class for moral support. She was waiting for Josh's class to finish when Steve called and offered to drive her home. She agreed but on the road. He professed his love for her. Susan was floored but she kept her cool. She laughed off his advances as nothing more than a joke and kept quiet for the rest of the ride when they got home. Susan went to her room and waited for Josh when he finally got back. She told him they needed to leave. It was non-negotiable. There were only a few places they could afford to go one being Salt Lake City. Where one of Josh's sisters lived. They packed everything and left on Christmas. Eve thousand three for a year. The couple lived with Josh's sister then in two thousand four. They bought their own home. Initially Susan. Hope. This was a fresh start. But their marriage only went downhill. Josh couldn't hold down a job and Susan had to pick up his slack. She gave up her dream of her own does Matala she business accepting a job at wellsfargo. Josh was frustrated by the turn their lives and taken and stopped attending church. Susan was even more disappointed in his lack of faith. But just as the mirrored seemed unsalvageable. She discovered she was pregnant. Josh seemed really excited to be a father so he and Susan committed to making things work in two thousand five. Susan gave birth to their first son. Charley and then two years later Raden came into their lives. Josh and Susan adored the boys unconditionally but their love for one another was routinely tested. Josh was increasingly controlling. He Criticize Susan for tithing or giving ten percent of her earnings to the church. She in turn became disappointed in his lack of business sense. This was never more apparent than the time he decided to become an independent real estate agent. He'd never sold a piece of property before but he signed a contract with the yellow pages for over eighty thousand dollars worth of advertisements. He quickly lost interest in the idea and stopped paying for the ADS. It didn't take long for yellow pages to file a lawsuit. Susan worked tirelessly to bring in enough money to afford groceries for her family and work off Josh's debts. She was still a dreamer but her dreams were a lot smaller now. She just wanted to be able to hold everything together. Her life was a far cry from what she thought it would be when she was eighteen. By two thousand eight their relationship wasn't shambles. She became increasingly worried that he would do something rash but she stuck with him because of her unwavering Mormon faith in the LDS church. A marriage is eternal and unbreakable even if the couple legally divorces God put Josh in her life for a reason and she wanted her kids to have a conventional family and either way she couldn't just leave. She knew Josh would do anything to keep the boys with him. She didn't seriously think he'd ever hurt his sons but she wasn't sure he'd be so protective of her. Just in case in two thousand eight she wrote a letter and put it in a safety deposit box. She told her co worker that if anything happened to her even if it looked like it was an accident. Josh had probably done something she told them the letter would explain everything. Eighteen months later she vanished coming up the day Susan disappeared. Hi It's molly. I'm so excited for you to check out the new podcast original series daily quote. If you haven't had a chance to hear it yet daily quote is two to three minute. Podcast meant to inspire uplift and motivate your day every day hosted by the extremely talented Cape Leonard daily quote not only shares a meaningful quote from history but also gives you the context in meaning behind it and right now. I'm thrilled to be able to share today's quote with you. It's by the American poet singer and civil rights activists my Angelo. If you enjoy this episode make sure to follow daily quote free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning and welcome to daily quote. A podcast original. I'm Kate Leonard. Today's quote is from award winning author poet and Civil Rights Activist Maya Angelo. She said have enough courage to trust. Love One more time and one more time. Maya Angelou is best known for her. Nineteen sixty-nine Memoir. I know why the caged bird sings. It made history as a first bestselling work of nonfiction by a black American woman. Hers is a story of immense strength born in segregated. Saint Louis Missouri. Maya could have easily grown to hate those who oppressed her. She could have allowed bitterness to define her outlook limit her future instead. She chose to love herself and allowed that love to validate her ambitions. She became an actress and performer. A leader in the civil rights movement and an award winning Memoir Ist and poet. It takes radical courage to love ourselves. We will not always succeed. We may feel discouraged when our go unmet or relationship breaks but if we can have the courage to show ourselves compassion we will always be able to begin again this morning. Take a moment to honor the things you cherish about yourself. Acknowledge the progress. You have made on your journey of self discovery. You deserve to fall madly in love with the person you are. And the person you'll become daily quote is a daily podcast. Follow on spotify to make it part of your morning routine and let it inform the rest of your day. Daily quote is a podcast original. If you're listening on spotify you can share this quote with your friends on social by tapping the three dots in the top right corner of the episode. Page scrolling down to share and selecting your sharing option of choice. Remember you can find new paths to positively three hundred sixty five days a year followed daily quote free on spotify or wherever you get your podcast now. Back to the story. Susan and Josh Powell had been married since two thousand and had two young boys Charlie and Britain but their life in suburban Salt Lake City was anything but ideal. Josh was increasingly controlling. But Susan didn't feel like she could leave her marriage. They were all last seen together on the evening of December. Sixth two thousand nine by a neighbor who was helping Susan Nigga blanket the next morning Monday December seven daycare owner. Debbie Caldwell noted that Charlie and Brayden Powell didn't check in their usual time. She called Susan but didn't get an answer. The boys absence was unusual and Susan ignoring her phone even more so debbie hopped into her car to visit. Susan at home. They've been dusting of snow the night before and Moore was on. Its Way. The roads were a little slack. Nothing UNUSUAL FOR UTAH. It was bitterly cold as debbie stepped out of her car. She couldn't see that anyone was home but it was hard to tell from the street. Debbie walked up to the door and knocked no answer. She Tried Josh's phone but the results were the same. She appeared in the window but couldn't see anything. Debbie was getting worried only a few weeks before another local family had been killed by carbon monoxide poisoning in their home. She hoped the Powell's had met the same fate. Debbie called Joshua's sister Jennifer to see if she knew anything. Jennifer was just as concerned as Debbie. When she heard the boys hadn't shown up for daycare they decided to call the police and ask for a welfare check less than an hour later. A squad car. Roll down the street and pulled into the driveway. The officer was polite and agreed to take a look around. He glanced through the window but couldn't see anything. He has Jennifer if you had permission to enter the premises in. She granted it. The patrolman broke a window and climbed into the House then. He came around and unlocked the door for Debbie and Jennifer. The first thing they noticed was music. It came from a stereo in the living room. As did the sound of a box fan humming by the couch. The Fan was pointed at a damn spot on the carpet and furniture. Something had been cleaned up since it was still slightly wet. He knew the family hadn't been gone long. They called out for the Powell's no answer. The officer checked each of the bedrooms. Nobody was home but they noted a few clues. Susan's purse was on the cabinet in the hallway and when they went to check the garage. The mini van was missing Jennifer new. The Powell's wouldn't just leave town without telling her first and Susan definitely wouldn't leave her purse behind. They continued to phone. Josh Hoping He'd answer and tell them that was fine. Jennifer couldn't bear to wait around in the eerily empty house. She went home where the hours stretched on still no word from her brother and his family while the clock ticked the police department put together a search team. A few hours later lead detective. Ls Maxwell arrived the Powell residents as he stepped out of the patrol car. He noticed a group of neighbors gathered outside. The neighbors. Were happy to talk to the detective. All defending Susan. She would never have done anything like this without telling them I. Her boys were her world and she wouldn't just take off disrupting their schedules. Josh on the other hand was a different story he was impulsive. The neighbors hoped that this was just another one of Josh's last minute trips that he'd simply convinced Susan in the boys to come along. They probably come home soon. Meanwhile word of the Powell's disappearance was spreading at three PM Giovanna owning the last person to see Susan alive got wind of the gossip. Her son was home from school and decided to call Josh to his utter shock. Josh answered panicked her son Hung Up. Giovanna grabbed his phone and called back. It rang rang and rang. When suddenly there was a click and meek answer it was Josh. Giovanna was square. Confirm with their questions. Where was he? Did he have the boys with him? Where was Susan? When was he coming home? He should know the police were looking for him. Joshes answers came slowly and he stammered through slightly confused. He had his sons and they were going to be back soon despite Yavuz please. He quickly hung up. It was a relief to know Charlie in Brayden were safe but Giovanna couldn't shake nagging feeling deep inside that all of the problems were just beginning two hours later. Josh called his sister Jennifer she answered but like Giovanna. She was concerned by his tone. He didn't give a concrete nation for where he'd gone and he hung up abruptly after getting off the phone. Jennifer raced over to the Powell House to wait for Josh there. She found detective Ellis Maxwell and filled him in the detective immediately called Josh from her phone and told him he needed to come home now at six forty pm. Josh drove up the street past the police cars and onlookers before he pulled into his driveway. Detective Maxwell was the first one to make it to the car from the driver's seat. Josh only stared at him blankly. It seemed that he didn't care that so many people were looking for him. Maxwell saw the two children in the back. But there was no sign of Josh's wife Susan however the detective noticed her phone on the passenger seat. He asked the Josh where his wife was. But Josh said that he had no idea he'd last seen her the night before but he'd been gone all day. He taken the boys out on a camping trip. That answer made little sense. Why would josh go out camping in the middle of the night with his two young sons? And why would he take his wife cellphone on top of that? It had been Sunday evening. Just a few hours before Josh was supposed to go to work and it was snowing. Maxwell told Josh that he needed to come to the police station for questioning. Josh agreed and trailed Maxwell's car he let the investigators know that he would help them in any way that he could but he was adamant that he hadn't seen Susan's since the night before at the police station. Josh was taken into a small room there. Maxwell asked Josh if he had any idea where Susan could be. Josh said he simply had no idea. Maxwell kept on questioning. Josh gave shifty answers. He claimed he'd gone to a place called Simpson Springs campground to try out some new camping equipment. He said he'd simply lost track of time thinking. It was Saturday instead of Sunday drew maxwell. Josh seemed extremely uninterested in helping locate Susan. He didn't show any sense of urgency regarding her disappearance. He just kept repeating that. He didn't know why she'd left. Everything about their marriage had seemed fine to him. It was frustrating. But there was only so much they could do. Maxwell let Josh go after their interrogation after all he hadn't been accused of anything at nine PM on December seventh. Two thousand nine. Josh Powell drove home again and parked his van. Neighbors later reported that they saw the light in the garage all night long and heard the sounds of cleaning by the next morning word. Got Out that. A suburban woman had gone missing under mysterious circumstances. The local news station followed the case closely two days later on December ninth. Detectives were back at the Powell residence. This time with a search warrant they were going to see if they could find any new information that could lead them to Susan in the living room by the Fan. They came across a few droplets of blood on the bottom half of the wall. They swabbed these incent them back to a lab for tests. The carpet gave up no clues. It had been thoroughly cleaned and didn't have any traces of blood. The van was completely cleaned out. Glaze were only able to find the camping supplies. That Josh had claimed he was testing the next day. The investigators drove out to Simpson's springs were. Josh claimed he'd gone with his two boys. But the harsh landscape offered no clues it had been snowing for the past three days and any tracks that could have been left were obscured. It was a vast desolate wilderness. And the police were unable to locate his supposed- campsite to an outsider. Looking in it appeared. Susan had been killed and Josh was prime suspect. His later behavior only made things worse. Josh quit his job. After Susan disappeared then pulled his two sons at daycare and on December fourteenth. He hired a lawyer claiming he was tired of being badgered authorities. Ten days later on December twenty four. Th Josh was publicly named a person of interest in Susan's disappearance it was the best that the West Valley Police Department could do. After all there was still no physical evidence. Even so suspicion was growing in the community and Josh wanted out of Salt Lake City from the sideways glances in the grocery store to the looks of judgment from his neighbors. He couldn't take it on January. Sixth Two thousand ten. Josh packed up his belongings and headed back to Washington. The police were powerless to stop him a month. After his wife went missing he too was gone and the moment he left. He stopped helping authorities altogether. The chances of finding Susan Alive diminish coming up theories on what happened to Susan. Was she a runaway in love or a victim of a tragedy. Now back to the story it had been. Nearly a year's in Susan Powell disappeared on December. Sixth two thousand nine. The authorities were fairly certain that she'd been murdered but they had no physical evidence to prove it. Their main person of interest Susan's husband. Josh Powell was hundreds of miles away. He and his two boys were living in Puyallup. Washington was the Josh's father Steve. He hadn't cooperated with the investigation since he left Utah. Meanwhile Josh and his son settled in with Steve. It had been six years since Josh's father hit on his wife causing the couple to move away but josh felt perfectly at home with Steve even better. The police attention wasn't so intense in Washington and out of the spotlight. Josh could look after his boys without judgment. Meanwhile he and Steve Tried to answer the accusations with their own version of events. They had a theory and they were going to let the media know about it. Josh and Steve said that Susan had run away to be with another man named Stephen. Coacher coacher was a thirty year old from Saint George a town in southwest Utah. They claim that he'd gone missing around the same time as Susan. Steve and Josh had Susan's diaries and claim that this wasn't the first time she lusted. After another man. In fact they said that Susan and coacher had been entangled in extramarital affair. Supposedly Susan had left to right after Josh wink camping with the boys she met up with coacher and they flew away together to Brazil coach. I was familiar with the country since he served as mission there the were shocking and completely out of character for Susan. It's nearly impossible to analyze this theory. Josh didn't offer any evidence to suggest that Susan had ever even met Stephen Coacher. In fact phone records showed that there was never any contact between the two of them coach. You're also had gone missing on December thirteenth. Two thousand nine almost a full week after Susan on top of that while he was from Utah. He'd gone missing in Henderson. Nevada local security cameras captured the last time. Coacher was seen the video showed him walking down a cul de sac in Nevada alone too many including Susan's parents. It seemed Josh was using this alleged affair to deflect attention away from himself and he'd only want to create red herrings because he was responsible for Susan's disappearance Susan's family and the local authorities long suspected that he'd murdered his wife. Even Susan herself testified to that possibility after her disappearance. The police located her safety deposit. Box the one. She told her co worker about inside was a videotape and a handwritten letter in the letter. She wrote her marital problems with Josh. And how she feared for her life if anything happened to her. She insisted that it would be Joshua's fault of you of her friends told authorities that before she vanished. Susan had given Josh an ultimatum. If they didn't fix their marriage she'd leave with the boys in the spring. Allegedly Josh couldn't deal with that possibility. Instead he killed Susan and left her body somewhere out in the Utah Desert. The evidence seemed to support this theory. A lab confirmed that the blood found on the homes wall was Susan's police. Also discovered that Josh had cashed out Susan's retirement fund and had placed a one point five million dollar life insurance policy on her where he was the sole beneficiary. However all of this still wasn't enough to charge Josh. Police didn't have a weapon. Or even any conclusive evidence that Susan was dead. The best lead they had was the blood but Susan have lived in her home for years. It wasn't unheard of for a trace amount of blood to have been splattered on the wall after a minor cut and with two small children spills on the carpet and couch were par for the course. Answers were allusive for detective. Maxwell and the West Valley Police Department with Josh. Out of the State. It was even harder to conduct an investigation. As the years passed they were unable to Locate Susan. Alive or dead since they couldn't find her. It was impossible to tie any evidence back to Josh. Coacher or anyone else but the PAO family saga was far from over in September. Two Thousand Eleven Police in Utah uncovered a suspected burial site in the middle of the desert officials in Washington rated Steve Pals home. He had a strong alibi for the night of her disappearance but they hope they'd find some kind of evidence awesomely. Something Josh had brought with him when he moved from Utah Instead. They found countless hard drives full of elicit videos and images many involve minors in some have been recorded by Steve. The police also found old videos of Steve Stocking Susan without her knowledge on September. Twenty Third Two Thousand Eleven Steve Powell was arrested on charges of child pornography and voyeurism. Nothing they found in Steve's home could be used to explain Susan's case and the search in the desert also turned up. Nothing but josh still felt the heat. The media attention in both states was back on the Powell family. Additionally Steve was no longer allowed to live with minors which meant Josh and his two sons needed to move. Josh claimed that he'd found a place to live but the court soon figured out that he was lying he was still residing with his dad. Custody was handed over to Susan's parents. Chuck and Judy. But Josh wasn't going to take the ruling lying down he went to the courts to fight to get his kids back after all. He hadn't been convicted of a crime and the government. Just take his sons away. The judge ordered Josh to go get psychological evaluations to see if he was fit to be the boy's guardian. In the meantime he was given supervised visitation rights. Josh hated that his boys weren't with him full time but he always treasured the hours they spent together. He settled into his new normal as best he could and he continued to resist the police's efforts to find Susan. By the time February. Two thousand twelve game around. She'd been gone for over two years and the case was cold. Authorities had discussed charging Josh for the crime but they couldn't find any substantial evidence to ensure conviction. They were helpless however they didn't let Josh note this publicly. He was still a person of interest and with more searches in the desert planned. They wanted Josh to sweat. He professed his innocence to anyone who asked he told them all he wanted to do was move on with his life so that he could raise his boys right. He was convinced that his sons were being corrupted into thinking he was a monster he couldn't bear to see them turned against him and to dark plan began to form well. Josh never admitted to any wrongdoing and Susan's disappearance his actions on February fifth. Two Thousand Twelve painted a grim picture of what he was capable of that morning. A social worker pulled up to Joshua's newly rented house for a supervised visit Charlie in Brayden. We're looking forward to spending time with their dad. As the car came to a stop they bounded out ahead of the social worker. She ambled up behind. The Ms Josh stood in the entrance. The two boys ran inside but before she could get there. The door slammed shut. It was locked she naught but Josh didn't open up. She immediately called nine. One one minutes later Josh's lawyer received an email with no subject line from Josh. The message was short. I'm sorry goodbye outside of his house. The social worker was frantic. She didn't know what Josh was planning on what he was capable love. No one was there to help and they wouldn't be for several minutes a moment later there was a violent blast and the house was engulfed in flames. It had blown up by the time the authorities arrived. The inferno was raging. Nothing to be done once. The fire was extinguished. Investigators surveyed the home. The bodies of Josh and his boys were found in the rubble. He'd intentionally set the fire and had attacked his two sons with a hatchet before the fumes got to them. The thin veil of presumed innocence could no longer protect him. The young family whose future had once seemed so bright came to an end. Because of Josh Powell given Josh's murderer of his children it seems almost like a foregone conclusion. That Josh had a hand in Susan's disappearance. His accounts of the night in questions seem incredibly suspect in his actions. Two years later proved that he was capable. But there's still no hard evidence to prove Josh Killed Susan or even that she's dead to this day. Susan Powell remains a missing person. No one has ever been charged with her disappearance. Thanks again for tuning into gone. We'll be back next week. Was a short gone. Bide on spotify and back everywhere else the week after you can find more episodes of gone and all other park has two originals for free on spotify. Not only the spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcast originals. Like gone for free from your phone. Desktop or smart speaker to stream gone on spotify. Just open the APP and type in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at broadcast network. We'll see next time. Just because it's gone doesn't mean it can't be found gone was created by Max Cutler. In his parking studios original executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler sound designed by Scott Stronach with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Travis Clark. This episode of Gone was written by Robert Tyler Walker with writing assistance by Maggie Admire and stars Molly Brandenburg and Richard. Rosner remember. You can find new paths to positively every day of the year. Follow daily quote three on spotify or wherever. You get your podcast.

Josh Steve Stocking Susan Susan Powell Josh Powell Josh murder spotify Susan Cox Brayden Powell Josh wink Salt Lake City UTAH Joshua Charlie Steve Giovanna owings facebook University of Washington Tacom Powell Detective Maxwell
Deepish Thoughts: Justice for Charlie and Braden

Scene Of the Crime

09:42 min | Last month

Deepish Thoughts: Justice for Charlie and Braden

"Deep Thoughts with Kim and Carol. For this deepish thought. It's a little more serious than other ones that we've done caroline because we had some really big news that came down. It was very exciting news e. Down a record breaking jury award for the Cox Family and for those who don't remember Charlie and Braden Powell were the sons of Susan Powell and Josh Powell and we did a W. We did a two part episode of check it out the disappearance of Susan Powell and just to set this up a little bit more we actually talked to Ann Bremner, and it was so exciting they had started this case this historic case suing the state of Washington four failure to keep these two little boys safe. Never happen. Again. Ever Want. To be voted. MISSOURI THAT SPEAKS To, how wrong? He's wrong for city new Josh. Powell. Was a suspect in the disappearance of his wife Susan the presumed murder of his wife Susan. But the state was still allowing boys to have visitation and not only have visitation but go to Josh Powell's home and have this station there, which is something that we now know because of this jury verdict never should have happened. Yeah and it's taken the family a long long long road to get to this point but we talked to Anne Bremner it was when the jury had been. Midst of the pandemic that got Kabosh they couldn't go in there anymore, and so they recently resumed the court procedure, and now we have this historic historic case. Then I got a chance to talk with Charlie Cox Checkups. He is the grandfather of Charlie and Brayden he and his wife. Judy. Are the ones who sued the state and they say it is taken eight years to get to this verdict the process. Has Been Delayed for many years originally, the judge decided he wasn't gonNA listen to any of our evidence or anything basically dismissed it. Then we went to had to go to appeals that started back what two thousand twelve once the appeals court finally ruled and it was back then started to delay tactics and basically what appeals court had told us and that's what I came to realize how important this was really The state's position was that they had no responsibility for safety of children. The appeals court just told them. Yes. They did have a specific responsibility for safety children in their care, and so with that appeals court decision had to go back for trial. So this has been going on forever and a day in February the trial was postponed. As you said, because of covid pandemic, it just recently restarted within the last month and they finally have this jury verdict and what's crazy is you can hear the the dog tiredness and his voice I don't know if you hear that too. But like, but he said how important this is and some families might say, Oh, well, they're getting a huge payout, but this is not this is not that not at all no, and they have. Not only Charlie and Braden in mind when they when they filed this lawsuit but all of the other children that are in the care of the state here in Washington and also around the country well, before the children even went missing back in two, thousand, one or two, thousand, three or something like that. There was this domestic violence issue. It's an issue across the country that apparent would be come distressed and he or she would kill the children in themselves and they. They realize that it's not only the ones that hurt the children and our abusive physically abusive. It's the more emotionally these people that are dangerous that actually when they explode, they didn't generally do the hillside and take out the family. So they get a a study across the country. They put a group of people together and came up with a panel to how can we stop this. So they came up with a new plan a new way to look at domestic violence and we had people in our guest hfs here that we're on the board for that, and they came up with US national change in how you look at things or domestic violence policy, and of course, we adopted it we were part of it. So they came up with procedures and practice manual the following year or so and laws changed actually policies procedures changed. But they didn't get the training out to the people. So basically what he's saying is that before Charlie Brandon's death, there was a change in the law that should have prevented those boys from ever going to Josh Pals home. But because there was no training for the staff DS HSS it didn't happen well, and for me the biggest takeaway from what he just said and I think from our from doing all the research on our. Two part series was the the emotional abuse like I. It was a huge eye opener to me that in that particular case from what we understand from what I understand you know josh was not physically abusive. He was mentally and emotionally abusive toward his wife and his children and I think that as he sat there that we're looking at this all wrong and because you know even if she would have called the police, he didn't hitter. Right he didn't. He was absolutely abusing her but there were you know he didn't leave the marks on the outside. Yeah. So anyway, I just think that's that's that's such a huge point that I learned from doing that case. As, we celebrate this you know record setting ninety, eight, million dollar jury verdict. Chuck says you know obviously the boys are still gone you know nothing hammering Charlie back to. Our and our daughter still missing and that doesn't change. But we're hoping for the biggest judger, but you ever saw or something so that the other states go well, we don't want that happening here. So it is making a change for the better for the children. I got a chance to speak with Mr, Cox right before this verdict came down. So they had no idea but they were hoping they were hoping and hoping for a massive award not because they're seeking money. But because they know that's the only way the state's GonNa. Listen I wonder how that payout will happen ninety eight, million dollars do you have any idea how people get paid on that? I don't the state released a statement it was like literally three sentences I think that was just like our attorneys are going to look at the verdict and decide next steps basically was a non statement. So basically like this isn't over maybe It's hard to say we'll find out. You know I had a chance to talk with Chuck Cox couple of years ago about Charlie's dinosaur and they. I just they do. They're so involved like this. The worst thing happened to their family and yet. They wanted to do something good for people and to make it change and I think that when something horrible like this happens like you can either go into the negative you know world or you can try to make change and so charlie dinosaurs just one example of the things the Cox family has done and basically it's like getting a kit together because we have so many homeless kids in Washington state I mean and there's not enough foster parents and so basically that when they found out that foster kids would often carry a garbage bag full of their stuff they were like we need to do something and so Charlie's dinosaur was based on a on a picture that Charlie. had, drawn a dinosaur that they're like, okay this is our logo. This is what we're going to do, and so now they they have kits and they make them so that when a child goes to another foster family that they ha, they don't carry along a garbage bag full of their belongings but they have a case you know that has a toothbrush and other things and it know just a little things but they mean so much. Yes. If you want to find out more about Charlie's dinosaur, you can header our website scene of the crime podcast dot com and also go back and check out our Susan Powell two-parter that we've got out there because that story still baffles me. You know I mean this family. And talked about what these kids went through that at their father's hands. Busy kids, insecurity. Kid ever get killed him on those sufficiently anywhere in the United States and inexplicably there was a decision by one caseworker communication Josh fell. For. Them on the. Children's health and fire. But what what really struck me was when? He found out that his grandchildren were gone had been killed by their father that he said to himself. I have I tried everything that they did everything they could you know that's one bit of comfort and they did they tried to adopt. Those are the custody of those kids the entire time between when Susan disappeared and when the children were murdered and trying to get custody and they said, we you know. The day that he was going to take those kids they were like we don't feel like they're safe. I mean you imagine having to let these children go these precious knowing that they were in danger and legally not being able to do anything about it I mean it is just heartbreaking case and hopefully with ninety eight, million dollars know they'll be able to do even more work toward getting making kids safer. that. That is just the the system is broken I mean in my opinion guy. I agree.

Charlie Susan Powell Josh Powell josh Cox Family Charlie Cox Braden Powell Chuck Cox Charlie Brandon United States Anne Bremner Washington caroline Ann Bremner Kim Josh Pals Cox Washington MISSOURI
To All The Girls I've Loved Before

Cold

1:01:30 hr | 2 years ago

To All The Girls I've Loved Before

"The podcast discusses domestic violence criminal behavior. Murder and adult themes while not explicit. Listener discretion is advised. Apprehension nodded up Catherine Terry's insides on the drive over Snoqualmie pass. It was late November nineteen ninety nine. Catherine's boyfriend Dennis was at the wheel of his Mitsubishi Galant heading west towards Seattle. Rain pounded the windshield. Making our dec- the mountain road. The white or swept back and forth. What seemed to frantic speed Catherine was ready for the drive to be over? But she wasn't looking forward to what awaited her in Seattle. Her ex boyfriend Josh Powell, it'd be so good be sweet and loving. And then if things aren't going as way not so much Katharine data Josh long before he became the subject of a murder investigation. In fact, the story she's about to tell happened almost exactly ten years before Susan Powell vanished. She's never told it to anyone aside from friends and family, not police now reporters, not anyone, and I do wonder in the back of my mind. I'm like, I wonder if docile that I would be service blow his full cover that. I'm just like I don't wanna deal with him. I don't want to deal with repercussions of EMC key, his family on me, I found Catherine by scouring thousands of files recovered from Josh's, computer. He mentioned her by name only a couple of times having intentionally erased almost every trace of her from his journals, Catherine broke her silence with me for the very first time. But back to the story in a member of ninety nine Catherine hadn't yet told her new boyfriend Dennis much about Josh she'd only told him Josh had been very controlling. Yeah. I just like I didn't realize at the time. Of course, how isolated I had become. I think I'd built it in my mind that I was happy. Things can only get better and eventually get married and things it'd be better after that. It was after noon before they made it to Seattle, but already starting to get dark. They found a hotel a few miles north of downtown Catherine called Josh to arrange a time and place to meet. She broken up with him over the phone months earlier in March during a trip home to Utah. Or anything like that? He's just really quiet and she say, okay. What do you wanna do your stuff? And I'm like, well, go ahead and stick it in storage. And I will I'll come up and get it. So that's what Josh had done. In the meantime, she'd met Dennis they'd fallen in love. Katherine knew she needed to go back to Washington at some point to get her stuff. Once you call Josh to let him know she was coming up in November. She told him her fiance would be with her, but Dennis and Catherine weren't actually engaged. It was better than we told them that we're engaged instead of Otis's might you know, because then like insert dos. Let me see if I can break this up. Josh insisted he needed to see Katherine that very night. He said he wanted to give her a pass to the Pacific science center. Remember telling him, I don't one is it by American drop it off any ways. But no, I really I really think it was his way of checking out situation Joshua up at the hotel about eleven PM. He knocked on the door. It's swung open revealing tall broad shouldered men. Dennis. Every I stood in the doorway six one. He was about five ten. Lots more than I am I stood in the doorway. Like, this is just taking over my shoulder. Like kenniston on her tiptoes peeking over my shoulder now like, hey, taking in the whole conversation. Yeah. Josh's is grew wide. He said will you must be Dennis. And he was he's being all cool, and cordial didn't seem anything like what you describe to me. It's still I didn't know half the stuff that I would find out came out later Josh handed over the science center pass as promised, then he and Catherine agreed to make the hand off of her belongings. The next day we're going to get back to Dennis and Catherine in just a little bit. I though we need to talk about Josh Josh had a long history of failing to connect with girls. His written journals are full of entries about struggles. In dating his audio journals or even more telling here, he is in his own voice, reacting to one rejection such a good friend. Didn't want it. And I know you're in a better place. So broke my heart. Your brother? He replaced my broken heart with incredible joy, greatest chilly. You taught me so much where I want to. And especially how to take care of me. And also, I am a new I want to be act never met. Oh. They didn't take. Three years. But prince left in my arteries. They're here to stay. Thing you so hard and yet how could I be so? To ask for more than you giving me which was more. I ever. You're my best friend. This is cold episode one to all the girls I've loved before. I'm Dave Cali. Let me take just a second. Hear that voice. You just heard belonged to Josh Powell he recorded that sometime in nineteen ninety nine part of a series of audio journals. He kept during his early twenties. Those recordings have never been made public until now it's almost a foregone conclusion that Josh killed his wife Susan in December of two thousand and nine he told police he had taken their two boys out for a desert camping trip in a blizzard after midnight when they returned the next afternoon. Susan was nowhere to be found. Her body has never been located. Nearly two years later as police closed in Josh killed himself and his sons. This podcast is the result of an investigation. Spanning more than three years and five western states. It's involved. The review of tens of thousands of pages of police reports warrants emails, social worker, notes, psychological evaluations, personal journals and more everything you're going to hear has been carefully sourced where possible I will bring you the actual voices of the people who are involved in some cases narrators will stand in for the key players. We've identified three themes in this investigation. I Susan did see warning signs but chose to ignore them. She likes so many women stayed in an abusive relationship why we can learn from her experience second. It seemed obvious to almost everyone that Josh killed Susan yet police never arrested him. Why not we're going to dissect the investigation to find those missed opportunities in third. Why did Josh do what he did to answer that question? We have to look deep into his past. And at the manipulative father who helped mold his monstrous actions. Stephen Theresa Powell gave birth to their second child their first boy on January twentieth of nineteen seventy six little Josh had an older sister, Jennifer and was soon followed by a younger brother, John when Josh turned five he decided he hated his kindergarten teacher because she failed his finger painting Steve Powell baptized Josh into the church of Jesus Christ latter-day saints when Josh turned eight even though Steve wasn't worthy to perform the right or to hold the church's priesthood Steve zone journals, which I've read and an outline for his autobiography confirm. He had secretly gone apostate by that point. Stephen Terry had bought a relatively spacious twenty seven hundred square foot home in Spokane Washington suburb, Avera, Dale it's out on a one acre lot giving their kids plenty of space to play that was even more important as they added another child to the mix. Michael Josh, attended Franklin elementary school. He was. Bright kid who developed a love for robots remote controlled toys, electronics architecture in the fourth grade, he figured out all by himself. How to calculate the volume of the school sandbox the next year, he explained long division to a friend even though no one had actually taught him how to do it yet. Josh struggled with school, especially math. He didn't do well with the structure of the classroom. Life at home wasn't great either. When Josh was in the fifth grade, his mom discovered. A secret journal Steve had been keeping Steve written hundreds of pages about the wife of another man. The journal entries represented two years of Steve's explicit sexual fantasies about that woman. Terry confronted her husband about the journal Steve said if the woman's husband were to die. He would take her in as a plural wife razor kids Terry was eight months pregnant with her youngest child Alina at the time in divorce papers filed years later, she would claim she feared Stephen tended to bump off the other woman's husband in order to live out his fantasies. Steve showed no remorse for the hurt. He had caused but promised to change when Terry threaten to leave him from the outside. The Powell still looked like the typical latter day Saint family. They went to church on Sundays did stuff together. Steve though decided to feed his kids some decidedly different beliefs. He told the boys people were just animals and should be able to have sex with anyone at anytime. He also kept porn magazines in the house worse yet he found himself attracted to his oldest daughter. Jennifer, many years later Steve would write about those feelings in his journal. I remember many times sitting at the breakfast bar in our home when she would come into the kitchen in the morning dressed in a T shirt and panties. That would drive me nuts. We went on a trip. One time just the two of us, and she wandered around our hotel room and nothing more than a bra aunties. Steve wanted to tear Jennifer away from the church of Jesus Christ latter-day saints when she became a teen. And he told her that shirts scripture, the book of Mormon was false Terry found out about that conversation and was so upset she moved out of the house when I was about fourteen my mom pulled me aside, and she had a conversation with me. And she said look at this path that your father is going on. Look at the path that our savior wants you to go on the gospel will lead you down. Compare them. What do you want to end up? Jennifer told me that was a turning point. That was the moment where I finally made a hardened fast decision. I didn't want to be like my dad, I could see that he was going down the wrong path, and he was making some bad choices in he was treating his family badly intriguing my mother badly, and I didn't wanna be like that the other kids were younger and more impressionable Josh discovered a love for the boy scouts. He reveled. Earning merit badges and enjoyed going on camp outs with his troop. Steve didn't like it. Because the troupe was sponsored by the church, he mocked his son until Josh in. Shame quit. Steve also sought out other anti Mormons. He had left the church, and he was actively fighting against it. He was writing for anti LBS magazines and was campaigning big time in his own little ways against the church. And so and he was. Doing this with his children too. When Michael turned eight and became eligible to be baptized. Steve refused the family turmoil. Took a toll on Josh divorce court records show that around nineteen eighty nine when Josh was thirteen. He threatened his mom with a butcher's knife. He also killed his four year old sister Alina pet gerbils then made her touch their blood. Even worse Terry said she wants Josh John examining. Josh even tried to hang himself when he was fourteen the suicide attempt left him with a rope firm on his neck, Terry pushed him into counseling. Stephen Terry tried to work out their marriage. They entered counseling, Terry, moved back, home and things did seem to get better for time. But it didn't last one night. Jennifer was working on a project using the family sewing machine it took longer than she expected. So she decided to return to the next morning her brother John wanted to use the sewing machine that night. Steve started to tear Jennifer's work out of the machine when she protested he smacked her in the face. Around this time Josh became involved with the youth folk dance group called silver Spurs, he met a girl named Sarah. There they spend a lot of time together in the spring of nineteen ninety two after Josh turned sixteen for the most part. It was just innocent teenage stuff. They have long talks and snuck out of their homes at night to hang out together. Sarah was a couple of years older. She thought of Josh like a kid brother his intentions skewed more to the romantic, he pressured her to be his girlfriend, Sarah explained in no uncertain terms. She was not interested not only that she'd be leaving at the start of summer moving to Wyoming with her mom, it didn't make sense to start a relationship, but Josh persisted one day shortly before Sarah left, he kissed her. She didn't like it, but hoped that by letting it happen. Josh would let her go gracefully one night in may Josh wanted to attend a youth. Get together at church Steve refused in grounded him. Josh. Anyway that night he wrote his dad a letter explaining he intended to move out and live in his car. You say that I probably be more unhappy. But I'm going to find out. I think it's going to work out. Maybe we can be better friends this way, drostan stay out of the house for long that summer. He got a job working at a neighborhood car wash one day while on shift money went missing from one of the cars, Josh war. He didn't take it. But even his own dad. Josh was fired. It was the first of what would turn out to be of lifetime failures in business. Josh could tell something was wrong. He looked over his dad from the passenger seat of the car. Steve didn't look like himself. He seemed preoccupied distant. The car rolled up progress road past homes with Halloween decorations taped into the windows. Have you mom been talking about divorce? Again, he asked the question hung in the air the car kept moving north toward I ninety in the Spokane river she filed for divorce today. Steve replied that answer flattened Josh like a punch from prizefighter. He knew his parents relationship was bad. But he wasn't privy to all of the dirty details of his father's private life. He went to school that day going through the motions while attempting to process, what is dad had said a bitterness started to grow. He wondered why is mom would do such a thing. The only reason he could think of was her religion. When Josh returned home from school that afternoon, he found his mom and uncles sitting in the living room the Bishop of their latter day Saint ward their congregation was there as well. Your dad, and I are getting a divorce, and I'm keeping the house. Terry said, she told her oldest son. He was welcome to. Living there, but would have to abide by some new rules. She handed him sheet of paper, no swearing or crude talk. No R rated movies curfew at eleven pm at the bottom. Josh read, if you break any of these rules, mom reserves, the right to throw you out a rising sense of fury made his hands shake Terry wanted him to sign the paper indicating he understood Josh looked around the room from his mom to his burly uncles to the Bishop. I don't care about your rules because I'm living with dad. He said then Josh ran up the stairs to his bedroom. I don't care where I live. I'm not living with you. He shouted Josh left. The house that evening with his brother, John they were going to a friend's birthday party as they walked out the door. Terry warned her boys to be backed by eleven Josh said, they wouldn't be able to do that. You'd better be backed by then or the doors may just be locked Terry said, Josh resented, his mother's newfound sense of thirty. He had no intention of a biting by her curve. Few he and John caught bus uptown as the party started to wind down that night. Josh began to wonder whether or not the threat has mom had made actually bore any teeth at ten thirty. He called home to ask if the door would actually be locked by the time, he made it home. Why don't you just come home? And we'll see Terry said. Well, I guess I won't come home. Then Josh that and slammed down the phone. He didn't go home that night or the next day. Instead he crashed with a friend for a few days. His dad finally tracked him down through tears Steve told Josh he'd been worried sick Steve said, he'd rented an apartment, Jennifer, Michael and Alina, we're still home with Terry. But fifteen year old John was living with him. Steve wanted Josh to come stay in the apartment as well. Josh agreed Steve did not take the divorce gracefully. He lashed out Terry. In court filings, calling her a religious freak. He claimed her faith head crossed over into the occult. And he used the loyalty of his sons to his advantage. Steve took Josh and John to his paralegal and had them filed declarations supporting him. This is what Josh wrote. We also seem to do an awful amount of arguing over religion and wherein when we have to go to church, and what we have to believe I feel that it is a lot of scare tactics and brainwashing and the younger kids should be protected from that, Steve even had Michael then just ten years old file affidavit. The judge was not impressed calling the involvement of the boys in the case concerning even more concerning where the claims Josh's older sister Jenny offered the court in early November. Steve Josh, and John came over to the house Terry was gathering some legal papers when Steve tried to grab them out of her hand, Terry resisted the. Confrontation turned physical. Jennifer felt afraid and called nine one one Steve seeing her on the phone told her to hang up Jennifer dropped the phone, but grabbed a folder and ran out of the house. She headed for her car where she intended to walk the court papers out of her father's reach. She didn't make Josh tackle Jenny on the front lawn, wrapping his arms around her and overpowering her Steve reached the front door and saw his kids wrestling shouting at one another in full view of the neighbors. It looked bad he yelled at Josh to let go of Jennifer and come back inside the house. Terry and Jennifer told the court, Steve and the boys were trying to brainwash Michael and turn him against his mom. Josh said, the house was segregated girls. Versus boys Terry said both Josh and John had hit her in the past. Steve told the court his wife and oldest daughter. They were just telling stories totally have him convinced that that my mom was just twisting the facts. When in reality was my dad that had everything twisted out of shape. I he was amazing at that. At first the judge allowed Steve access to the home because it was where he kept his office. Steve used that permission though, as carte blanche to do whatever he wanted when Terry put a padlock on her bedroom door Steve tried to cut it Steve flew into a rage. One day when Jennifer stopped him from taking share out of the house. He grabbed her by the hair pulling so hard some strands separated from her scalp in light of the violence. The judge granted Terry custody of both Michael and Alina Josh, and John we're allowed to choose where they wanted to live both decided to stay with Steve Josh wrote a journal entry around that time. He called his mom a treasure seeker who wanted to blow. Lead. Steve for all. He was worth he called his sister. Jennifer, a witch now all of this was going on while Josh was an eleventh grader at central Valley High School. He did his best to keep up with his class work in spite of the chaos in the journal entry he wrote last week. I took a test in algebra, and I couldn't concentrate couldn't even figure out some of the problems algebra's my best subject. Josh wrote. His mother was the reason he'd had to see a shrink more than once in the past. But didn't go into detail about his self harm or threatening behavior. His personal relationships. Also, suffered just a few weeks after learning of his parents divorce. He responded to a letter from Sarah that girl that he'd surprised with an unwanted kiss. Earlier that year, Sarah, gone off to college in Wyoming and wrote to Josh about how different college life was from high school. Josh felt like she was talking down to him. And he was livid. I've never said anything before when you offended me. I assumed it would stop it will stop. If you have to keep saying other people are better than me. Then don't say it to someone else. This was a major shift in tone Josh's prior letters to Sarah had been meek almost puppy dog ish. He seemed to recognize that his emotions were just running out of control. Sorry. If I seem like a jerk. I'm just mad. I'm tired of you patronizing me. I'm better than most the people. I know I'm not being conceded either. It's just a fact is about time, you realize it for all of this anger. There were also hints of an internal conflict. Terry told the court there were times when Josh seemed troubled, by the way, Steven John acted she wrote in one declaration that Josh is anger seemed to flare and subside he was capable she said of thoughtfulness and cooperation in April of nineteen Ninety-three. Josh wrote a letter to Sarah's sister Theresa. He complained about the divorce, and in particular, his mom, I would kind of like my mom to be dead. Steve kept pushing boundaries. He repeatedly showed up at Michael and Alina school. He would take them off campus for lunch, even though he didn't have legal custody. Steve told the kids it was their mom, not the courts that kept them apart. One time Steve kept Michael for a full week beyond his court. Authorized visitation Terry worried Steve might try to actually kidnapped the younger kids. She told the court Steve zone. Parents had played what they called the kidnap game with Steve when he was a child there's a pattern of abuse there that escalated through generations my dad's. Parents divorced when he was pretty young. And then they played this game of kidnapping each of the children from each other. And they would just see how long they could hide the children from the other. Parents Jennifer told me that didn't happen with her siblings. At least not exactly my dad didn't physically kidnapped the children. But he did that in a in this mental way with this game that he would play mentally where he would twist all the facts and make them believe that my mother was terrible. And so in a sense, he was kidnapping them. Mentally, Steve told the older boys Terry's home was their home to they should come and go as they wished Terry. Didn't see it that way on mother's day. Josh and John win over to the house and tried to force their way inside Terry called the police. Steve moved to Puyallup, the beginning of nineteen Ninety-four. Josh by then was a high school senior and turning eighteen. He John Michael made the move to western Washington as well. Josh only a few months to go to graduation, but the move to Puyallup sapped him of motivation. He ended up at Rogers high school where he didn't know anyone and had no friends he'd left a girlfriend behind Spokane, but any idea of maintaining a long distance relationship disappeared when he met a girl named Mary Cox, Mary also attended Rogers. Hi, Josh wanted to date Mary, but she wasn't interested. Josh managed to graduate high school afterward. He took a job working at a cabinet shop in the nearby city of Kent. He also tried to promote his own woodworking business Powell custom furniture, which she operated out of a storage unit that fall, Josh started classes at Pierce college. Steph's moved to didn't bring Tom to the Powell family. He shaved against the judge's orders and found himself in contempt of court for not paying the bills and child support Steve reported Terry to child protective services, claiming she'd neglected Michael Andolina the state launched an investigation in decided Steve's accusation was unfounded, the Powell family reunited in August of nineteen ninety four. When Jennifer the oldest of the kids married Kirk graves in the Portland, Oregon temple of the church of Jesus Christ latter-day saints. Steve was absent Jennifer refused to invite her dad a slight which he never forgave kurkin. Jennifer had been together for about six months before tying the knot. Josh that he didn't expect their marriage to last in a letter to his friend Teresa if I were to place a wager on the outcome of their marriage. I would have to bet against longevity. Who knows maybe they'll beat the odds in March of nineteen ninety-five Josh bottom motorcycle, the bike was nothing too. Flashy Yamaha, radiant. But it did make getting around between home school and work a bit easier. It was also cheaper than a car and Josh liked the feeling of speed Josh disliked living with his dad, Stephen courage, d- arguments among the kids, especially over religion. The house was a hostile place not somewhere. Josh wanted to bring friends not the Josh had many friends to hang out with. He really didn't meet anyone at Pierce college. Mary Cox wasn't the only girl to spurn him either. He struck out over and over again in his efforts to find a girlfriend in the fall of nineteen ninety-five. He did meet a girl named Becky in his macroeconomics class. They hit it off. But Josh was reluctant to get too attached. He later wrote Becky liked to go dancing at the club with her girlfriends. I think dancing is an intimate activity to be shared with a loved one. I tend not to see the point in dancing with strangers. Becky also enjoyed the occasional drink. She went to bars with girlfriends one time while I knew her she went by herself since her friends weren't available. I think this is not a lady like activity. I've decided to direct more energy to finding girl who has similar attitudes on love intimacy time education alcohol in such issues. Josh did well in school keeping GPA just below four point. Oh that was impressive considering he frequently slept through classes, the one exception was of course, on American sign language, which he loved after completing his associates degree at Pierce college. Josh enrolled at the university of Washington in Seattle his goal become an architect. Josh rented a dorm at Stephen's court for the fall semester of nineteen ninety six. He was thrilled to find an Ethernet Jack in Israel. It was a much faster internet connection than his dial up modem at home. He connected. His computer set up his first Email account and marveled at the ability to access an entire encyclopedia on CD his excitement for the university. Experience didn't last on his fifth day on campus Josh's dorm mates decided to throw a back to school bash about seventy five people crammed into the small apartment. They passed around beer and bud encouraging Josh to drink and smoke pot with them. He refused at one point and inebriated roommates slammed Josh to the ground. The blow did more damage Josh's pride then his body. But the bullying wasn't just physical during another party Josh's. Roommates told him one of the guests was gay and wanted to have sex with him. They were explicit in their description. Isn't that why you're in college? They asked to experience new things. Josh didn't quite know how to handle their taunts he requested a room transfer. But it took weeks for the university to approve meantime, he fell behind in his classes in November. He wrote a letter to the university throughout my stay in that first apartment. I was bombarded with loud noises at all hours of the night. I was the subject of a sick joke to became sexual harassment. My personal belongings were stolen by my roommates or their guests. And I was the victim of salt and battery the transfer did finally come through Josh found his second apartment at Stephen's court, quiet and clean, his new roommate was an international student from India. They became fast friends, Josh joined a yacht club and took a drama class on some nights. He let off steam by walking a couple of blocks down to the edge of Portage bay. Josh was living on his own for the first time in his life. It brought things into focus he confided to his friend Theresa that. His dad was a bad influence. My dad's seems to always get mad at me when he sees me, my brother, and I concluded that my dad resents me often says root things to and about me actually, the things he says are not true he perceives them because he wants to I try not to get mad. But it's hard sometimes a month later Josh told Teresa he'd heard a story on the radio about depression. He believed he was depressed. Josh's mom Terry was also in school she'd married Steve right out of high school and had never gone to college. Instead staying home to raise her five kids after the divorce Steve repeatedly refused to pay child support or his portion of the bills Terry had to make a living. So she enrolled in college. It wasn't enough. She actually had to ask the church for financial assistance. Steve took notice of that. He demanded she pay him child support. Even though his earnings far outpaced hers. He also renewed his efforts to gain custody of Lena at the start of nineteen Ninety-seven, Josh abandoned his ambitions in architecture. He decided to go all in on drama, which he really enjoyed in high school. He signed up for theater class at U dub and tried out for play winning apart in a production of Lil Abner his role was a crony. I mean, it wasn't even a speaking part friends still Josh they were excited for him. But it must have come as a blow to his ego. He abandoned any aspirations of pursuing careers, actor his feelings of apathy and depression, did not go away. One experience at the university of Washington changed Josh more than any other one day during the spring of nineteen Ninety-seven he walked by a window and saw a pretty young woman sitting on the other side of the glass. She glanced up at him, Josh smiled the woman smiled back. So Josh dropped what he was doing. And went to introduce himself understand Josh was never shy around girls. He overflowed with confidence and felt no apprehension about approaching total strangers. This time he discovered the woman was a member of a group called campus crusade for Christ. She invited Josh to spend time with your friends who were all born again Christians. Here's what he wrote about that experience in a later letter one of their celebrations was in a big lodge where whole families were invited. Many of us were sitting on the floor a cute little black baby boy came up to me and sat on my lap. He said, I love you. I knew he did. And then my heart. He was the only one who did love me at the time. Remember, Josh was feeling secretly depressed. And he was moved. He asked his new friends to make him born again soon the semester ended Josh moved out of his campus apartment and back in with his dad and Puyallup, they didn't get along especially as Josh began to question the absence of religion from his life. His turn inward also revealed to Josh just how poorly he treated his mom as a teenager instead of returning to school that fall. He went back to Verizon sale to patch up his relationship with Terry the escape from Steve's orbit had a pretty profound effect on. Josh he examined his life questioning why it always seemed so hard for him to connect with people, especially girls, here's what he wrote about it. That's timber. I think certain aspects of my character can use improvement. I may be a much easier person to be around with these minor adjustments. For instance, I say what I think sometimes I need to remember that people. Don't wanna hear some things Josh reconnected with cousins on his mom's side of the family. They like that little boy at the campus crusade for Christ retreat showed him unconditional love Terry encouraged, her oldest son to attend some of the events for young adults put on by the church of Jesus Christ of latter day. Saints a mom suggested that I go to family home evening, I decided to go hang out there until I could make some real friends at eastern Washington University. But as I went each week, I found my old friends from junior high school, they were nice to me, and I made real friends in spite of the fact, I told them that I was not at all interested in their church. Josh's entire demeanor seemed to change his sister, Jennifer saw it it was it seemed like for just a little short time. There is a little bit of a glimmer of light that came in to joshes mind in heart that November Josh's old friend turned pen, pal. Jackie wrote him a letter asking about this, sudden, spiritual awakening kind of shocked me when you. Started talking about it. Jackie wrote, you used to be so rebellious about it mostly because of your mom, but Josh no longer resented, his mom. He forgave her for the divorce and even started patching up the bruised relationship with Jennifer back to church and. Just overall I would talk to him. Occasionally to and he just sounded like he was doing better on a better path at the start of nineteen ninety eight Josh enrolled in school again this time it eastern Washington University. He didn't plan to stay there. Very long. He wanted to move to Utah. Just like, Jennifer Hamm. But before that could happen Josh met, a young woman named Catherine Terry. You heard a little from Catherine at the start of this episode. Here's the rest of her story, Catherine had grown up in Utah. She'd only moved to Spokane after graduating highschool her aunt and uncle had invited her up to live with them knowing she was coming off a bad break up and was in need of a fresh start. Catherine was an active member of the church of Jesus Christ latter-day saints in Spokane she started attending a singles ward that's congregation for unmarried church members. And that's how she met. Josh. I went to first time I met him and activity that we went to. And of course, you know, he came to me in introduced himself, you know, and. Of course, you know, at the time, I was young and naive and quite smitten by him, you know, and. He was really ought about the beginning of our relationship. Just want friends, you know, nothing more than that. I'm not looking for anything more than that. And so it's like. I was interested in him. And obviously he was interested in me. And it just a kind of it went from from there to a relationship when Josh left to visit Jennifer in Utah for a few weeks. He's spent every night talking to Catherine on the phone it all moved to fast for Josh though. At one point he told Catherine they needed to break up. She was crushed Josh returned from Utah short time later and told her he still wanted to be friends, Catherine sucked it up and agreed. But Josh soon decided he wasn't happy just being friends. He went to work reestablishing, the relationship, Catherine was hesitant, but she caved to pressure. She was nineteen. Josh was twenty two from that point their relationship. Progressed very quickly. Josh asked Catherine to move in with him Catherine's, uncle told her shacking up. With Josh was a bad idea. He said she needed to stay well away from Josh Powell. She ignored that advice. Josh and Catherine spent the summer of nineteen ninety eight living with Steve Powell in Puyallup. Josh was spending money freely buying CD's and DVD's kitchen appliances, futons and all manner of other things when he ran out of money. No problem. He spent what little Catherine had when his old friend Jackie invited him to her wedding in North Dakota Josh discovered he couldn't afford the price of a bus ticket. I went to the greyhound station Sunday to buy tickets, but my credit card was rejected at the moment. I have absolutely no cash. I guess I've been spending more than I thought since I met Katherine Katherine met the rest of Josh's family, with the exception of his older sister Jenny who had moved to Utah Josh's kid sister Alina seemed to live on her computer. But she and Catherine they got along pretty well, John. She said was standoffish, Michael Catherine thought. Was quiet and sensitive, Mike. He kind of were there. He kind of Josh around like a puppy dog. You know? But yeah, anytime I. You know, even. Hung around. I think mainly his brothers on one on one basis. Jocelyn concluded he'd be like. I don't want you hanging out with them. You know, I'm pretty sure you probably bunches bunch of stuff. You know, wasn't true to get me to not have anything to do with them. Josh didn't talk to Katherine much about his family's history. He didn't go into detail about the divorce as far as Catherine could tell Josh's dad. He was a nice guy. Steve was almost like a father figure very kind to her and understanding in joss. They they clashed watts. They butted heads a lot. And I don't know if it's just because diva expected more of dodge. But yeah, there were times, you know, they would get into it yelling about this that and the other Josh and Catherine didn't stay in Puyallup for more than a few months. They found an apartment for themselves in Seattle Josh Rian rolled at U dub for the fall semester. And he encouraged Catherine to do the same. But she couldn't qualify for in state to ish. So instead, she signed up for classes at a nearby community college, Catherine had no job and no money for tuition Josh holder to get a student loan. So she did when the check came Josh took it and deposited it into his own account. Catherine never saw that money. In fact, get this. She still owes on that debt to this day twenty years later Josh picked up a job installing furniture for his dad, Catherine occasionally pitched in there as well. I remember every time I got my check it had me sign it. And then he'd stick it in his their apartment was tiny anytime at rained which was often in Seattle the roof fleet. Josh wanted to sue his landlord and started reading about the law. I may as well be a lawyer. It's so easy in November. Josh wrote a letter to his aunt Brenda about his problems with the apartment it turned into a rant about the legal system. I'm considering becoming a lawyer because I have no respect for that. Elk. I would not be afraid to slaughter. My opponents I would go after bad people of all sorts, especially lawyers judges. This was the old Josh not the young man who had the spiritual awaken still he and Catherine continued to attend church meetings. They joined a congregation for families, even though they weren't married. It was weird to me because he's just like if anybody asks for married don't say now, and I mean, even remember wearing just a ban on my finger, Josh told Catherine he didn't want to get married in really never wanted to have kids. Katherine felt very uneasy about the situation. She knew they were not living the religion. But Josh wanted others to think that they were we were active, but I do just remember Russo out of place. This is not we should be doing, you know, we're living together. We're not married shouldn't be going to church together. Like this making people were married. Those church meetings should've acted as a social outlet for Katherine. But it really didn't work out that way anytime she started to make friends Josh would intervene, and it was basically his family him and school. That they had a landline phone in the apartment, but no cellphones. Josh rarely allowed Catherine to use his computer get on it unless he was there. The only thing I ever really did on it was to Email, my friend, and of course, right next to me as I even my friend breeding everything that I wrote okaying it, basically if I sent it. Josh also made sure to read her journal, the only transportation they had was Josh's motorcycle or the city bus, Catherine didn't know how to drive a motorcycle and Josh never offered to teachers idea. We go grocery shopping to ask the or for large slots bag, and we would Alva groceries in it. He would put it in front of himself on his bike. And then he'd be on Mike, and I'd be on the bike. And we would we would go back. And I can't remember how many times we did that. But I'm just like this is insane in effect, Josh McCaffrey and a prisoner yet. She kept telling herself she was happy. She was lying to her self. I remember one time getting into fight with him. And there was nowhere to go. But the bathroom, and I went and locked myself in there, and I remember playing my feet up against the door. And. Him unlocking the door and pushing all his ninety. Josh's control over Catherine wasn't always so physical one time while they were living together. Catherine went to have her nails done. She felt pretty and proud of herself. And then he noticed that I had gotten my Nelson to me how stupid it was. And how much? And I remember him being gone to do something and ripping nails off my fingers in order to appease him only to have to go back to the lawn to have them fixed. The damage that I had done that damage. It was a lot worse than Catherine. Understood it I I'm like I remember night where it was like right after I had had them fixed. And I could feel an infection in one of my fingers and waking up rain, and you're not doing he didn't care. You know, just laying there. He did it to yourself. Basically. Catherine's uncle back in Spokane died while she was living in the Seattle apartment. Her whole family gathered for the funeral. Josh refused to let her go Josh's dad even came to Catherine's defense offering to pay her way to Spokane. But Josh wouldn't hear Katherine told me. Josh hated her hyung-chol for having tried to keep them apart. I was so devastated because you know, no matter how much I tried to persuade him to be like just let me go. You know, I'm going to come back in March of nineteen ninety nine Catherine decided to take a trip home to Utah to visit a friend Josh's school schedule prevented him from joining got away from him. And I didn't realize how much. Control. He had over. I was and what I did what I didn't do and stuff like that. But Katherine realized how unhappy she'd become living with Josh. She decided not to return to Washington she made a phone call to Josh and told him she would not becoming back. Josh put her stuff in storage until she could come up and get it. She made that trip the weekend before thanksgiving Josh insisted on seeing Catherine the night she and her new boyfriend Dennis arrived in Seattle. You heard how that played out at the beginning of this episode when Josh got home from that face to face with Dennis and Catherine at their hotel. He scribbled a short note on a scrap of paper. Here's what he wrote her fiance was a jerk. He seemed like a possessive freak like a bouncer. That was one of the few clues. I had led me to Catherine I met she and Denis at there. House in Utah on hot summer afternoon in two thousand eighteen. The window mounted air conditioner drone. I'd printed out a copy of the note and showed it to them. This is what we were. There can never there. Denis and Catherine are married now. You tell me about later in patient. About this. Let's jump back again to nineteen ninety nine. Now the day after Josh dropped off the science center pass was Sunday. Denis and Catherine drove around Seattle together, she showed him where she had lived. And he took her out to the suburbs where he served a two year mission for the church of Jesus Christ latter-day saints. Josh went to church himself that day, then he drove his dad's minivan to the storage unit where he'd stashed Catherine's things they all met that evening in the parking. Lot of Petco store just off the I five freeway not far from the university of Washington campus. It was also near the apartment, Josh and Catherine had shared for about six months. Josh was wearing buddy always wore a white t shirt, denim pants sneakers and a black leather jacket. He shows up, and I guess dad's van star or something like that. We got all the stuff out. He's been really helpful again. He's hoping to get everything to fit. It was a challenge, but they managed to cram it all into Denis's car. When they were done, Catherine told Josh goodbye for good and sat down in the passenger seat. Dennis put the car in drive and pulled out of the lot keeping an eye on the side mirror. I look back at them. And I think he was waiting for a little while to leave because he was just. Taking it in. Because I think there is still at small hope he might pull something off. Even though you wanted to push. But that was that the feeling of apprehension Catherine had felt on her way into Seattle blood out of her on the drive back home to Utah, a different emotion replaced it relief shoe had escaped she thought she would never have to see Josh Powell's face again. Josh took some time to reflect on the implosion of their relationship. He decided it had fallen apart because he had stopped living his faith. Josh wanted to stay in Seattle, but he could not afford his own place. So he recruited some roommates from among his church friends. They moved into place just west of the U dub campus. Josh was not an easy guy to live with he insisted on doing all of the grocery shopping himself. But he became set when his roommates eight any of the food in may of nineteen ninety nine Josh meta girl at church, let's call her. Cindy, it's not her real name. But I'm using it to protect her privacy. Now, Cindy had two sisters. I will call them Stella and Jamie, also not their real names, Cindy was half Brazilian and spoke fluent Portuguese. Josh started listening to audiotapes in an effort to learn the language. He started pressuring Cindy today at him he showed up at her family's house unannounced late one Tuesday evening. Here's josh. Own voice from his audio journal general experience that most girls. The way I am. Sway? I would like to be he asks indie to step outside. So that they could talk, and then he droned on and on keeping her out past eleven thirty curfew to be more careful because I really don't want to get her into trouble. Bad at stress to our relations. -sarily and the concept of curfews not familiar to me the next day Josh road, Cindy of long letter describing his time with Catherine and his brief fall away from faith after I came to the church. I had one big struggle. And I lost hold for awhile. I think even that was for my good though, the sun went down, and I was alone. Only when I returned again was I free again, he wrote another letter a few days later confessing the turmoil of his parents divorce. He said he finally understood his sister Jennifer's split from the rest of the family. She endured the second worst thing in the world. She made a choice to distance herself from my dad. So now, I will face the second hardest thing in the world. It is up to my dad when I will see him and how much Cindy didn't have romantic feelings for Josh. She asked him not to show up at the house without calling. I, but he kept finding excuses to visit like dropping off some CDs or bringing over a pot for plant again. This is Josh is audio journal. I hadn't. Really? I just called her like an hour before I arrived, and I just left it on the voice mail. So I had done what she asked me in my own little way. Cindy, finally had to make it clear. She was not interested Josh told her he wanted to stay friends, then over the next few months. He's slowly shifted his interest down the line to Cindy sister. Stella Josh's journals reveal he knew this was abnormal behavior. This is from Josh's written journal, if there is a girl who is interested in my brother, and then she got interested in me. I would probably be very cautious with her too. I might feel like I was her second choice. It didn't stop him Josh's feelings for Stella grew into a raging fire. He just couldn't seem to control he continued to show up at our house, or at her work sometimes carrying a video camera it made so uneasy. Josh, meanwhile, was dealing with feelings of jealousy and isolated. Sometimes I feel like no one wants to be around me. It is as though I am not allowed to feel sad. Sometimes I think a lot of people don't understand that. I have the same feelings as everyone else in early October. Josh decided it was time to confront Stella. He brought her flowers and told her he wanted to be her boyfriend. He asked her to pray about him. Ask your father about me. And if there's any chance I might be good for you. Then please don't start dating anyone else. Stella like her sister felt put off by Josh's high pressure approach. She told him they should just stay friends. Josh did back off for about a month. He tried dating around a bit. But struck out again he began to blame. His dating troubles on his roommates who he saw as freeloaders they don't seem to appreciate all the things. I do for them. I owe them nothing. It makes me wanna unshared and get rid of them in December. Josh poured his heart out to Stella in an Email as he'd done with. Cindy, he described how his mom and dad's divorce had scarred him. He talked about finding his way. Back to religion. He even made a veiled reference to Catherine his ex-girlfriend calling her the first girl that he had ever really liked deep down at the end. He told Stella she was then the sole object of his attention want. You to love me, Stella, I love you. When you said you wanted to be friends, I tried to get over you. But no other girl comes close. The only thing. I don't love about you is that I can't reach you. But one of Josh's roommates had secretly warned Cindy about what he was really like Cindy talked to Stella word got back to Josh. He was furious over what he called his roommates indiscretion. I just want them gone. So I don't mind being a nuisance to them. We will I be happy when they are wearing out my nice things anymore. I probably shouldn't get to mean with these guys because it could affect my reputation in January Josh executed his plan from the audio journal. I let go of my apartment packed up. All my stuff. I put it in my storage unit. I had a feeling I could not need to be in Seattle anymore. Trumpers time finally moved out of nowhere needed to go. Know what I was doing where I was going to know anything before leaving Seattle. Josh made a half hearted attempt to Cindy installs. Cousin? It did not go well from a complicated situation, roommates and friends and. Complicated relationships criss crossing every which way Josh moved back to Dan's Place in Puyallup, and it's kind of difficult living by doubt at times because it has had a against the church, but I have got it and realized that it is even more difficult for my little brother and sister who never. In march. Josh took a road trip to his sister Jennifer's house in Utah. He was there to attend the by annual general conference of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints. He was also there to meet a young woman. He had found on a website for church singles by went down there to Utah to fi her spent a couple of weeks at a puke housing miles furthest. I've ever driven for day. That was a great experience. All though, obviously it didn't work out that is an understatement. Let me explain why Josh made just a couple of references to this woman in his writings, I found her full name buried in the thousands of files police later retrieved from his computer now during our first conversation. This woman had told me something about Josh had given her the creeps. She couldn't put her finger on what? Josh's own journals may shed some light on it after their date. Josh wrote about visiting the Provo Utah temple. He saw young married couples there with happy expressions on their faces. He thought it was the same. Look he'd seen on the face of that girl that he had driven so far to meet we have had that understanding that when we are together it is about each other. Even if I may not marry her I was thinking about how sweet she has toward me. He barely knew this girl. He bought her a rose and wrote a letter confessing his feelings are you seeing a pattern here. It was the same approach. He had used unsuccessfully on the sisters in Seattle. He completely failed to understand. She thought he was a weirdo. Josh until his sister. Jennifer about those dates even though he was staying at her house at the time. Jennifer didn't seem surprised when I told her about always been just a little bit odd during that period. I think that the oddness was. Maybe less pronounced. But there was still there. And we knew it. Josh went back to Washington even more committed to his religion. It put him in direct conflict with his dad. Here's Josh's audio journal. I was living with my dad for about six months and kill. I finally got to the point where I couldn't take it anymore. My dad is of course, non-member and it was starting to wear me down have to be around alcohol in the house and cutting an occasional anti Mormon discussions. So my mom suggested that I get an apartment in Tacoma. Well, I hadn't really considered that. Because I wasn't planning on staying in cocoon. I felt like I wanted to get the heck out of there. So Josh found an apartment into coma. This time by himself with no roommates, he joined the churches college heights ward and enrolled in the business school at the university of Washington Tacoma. He actually made new friends at church there were a lot of girls in his org. it. But none wanted to get serious. I just can't get through. I really like the only girl. To me that I'm not interested in. Anyway, that fall he went to an institute class with his friend. Tim Marini institutes of religion are sort of like seminaries, they are places where college age church members. Go to study their faith and to socialize at the end of one institute class, Josh spied, a young girl who looked somewhat familiar. Well, I didn't know who she was. She was about to leave after I called her back. And I was like, hey, chimera talk to me for a while. And she did her name was Susan Cox as they chatted she asked if he knew how to play the piano, Josh said, maybe a little Susan said she remembered Josh having played the piano at her house years before he'd come over to see her older Sister Mary. Again, are you seeing a pattern here? Josh made a habit of moving his affections from sister two sister, whenever he was rebuffed. Susan would later write that Josh socially attacked her that day, he was twenty four. She was just barely nineteen the same age Catherine had been when she first started dating. Josh. Susan would soon become Catherine two point. On the next episode of cold night. Right. Sweets, isn't hilarie me and chief. If you haven't already please subscribe to cold tosses a rating or a review you can find cold on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at the cold podcast for video clips pictures from the case and more hit up the cold podcast dot com. Also, if Susan story sounds familiar in your own life. In other words, if you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse in any form, please get immediate help in the US. Support is a phone call away at the national domestic violence hotline at one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three or online at WWW dot the hotline dot org. A quick. Thank you to my team. Kristen Sorenson, Eric openshaw can fall Daniel Prager, Adam Mason Gillian Friedman, and especially Cheryl Worsley for all of their help with this project. The music for cold was composed by Michael bond Miller, except for the tar stuff that was me cold is a KSL podcast. Thank you for listening.

Michael Josh Josh Josh Powell Catherine Terry Josh John Steve Michael Catherine Jennifer Hamm Josh long Josh war Josh McCaffrey Seattle Josh Rian Josh holder Josh road Katherine Katherine Alina Josh Alina Puyallup
India Mackey & Me- Domestic Violence Stories

True Crime: By The Book

31:45 min | 10 months ago

India Mackey & Me- Domestic Violence Stories

"Please be aware true crime by the book may discuss topics. Your opinions and use language that can be disturbing were offensive to some listeners. listener discretion is advised tidings and salutations pages. I'm Tasha Pierce the host of true crime by the book. Where every other Tuesday we bring you true crime one page at a time and today is going to be different and the different thing the last episode anybody who joined me from last episode will know that I I said I was going to do the more than a movie segment and we will be talking about growing up but a Fuko? I will release that episode Possibly next week next week Tuesday. I thought I'd come in today because there's something that's weighing very heavily on me and I've gotten quite sick of hearing about these types of events but I know these things will continue to happen because as human beings we want to believe in the good in people. We want to tell ourselves at this person that we're dating or that we're married to is going to change and I'm here to tell you that Domestic abuse is one of those situations that you really don't get an opportunity a lot of times to get right the next time if you understand what I'm saying so I'm going to share with you. Two stories maybe even more one of them is The story hit the news today and that news is it's about India mackey in India mackey and had just celebrated her twentieth birthday. She was not twenty years old for twenty four hours before her abusive boyfriend shot and killed her. So I'm going to share that story with you today and non scripted. Well actually. I'm going to read the People magazine Article on India mackey. He and then I'm going to share with you my survivor story In my survivor story is over. Twenty years old so It's been a long time since I was the person that allowed myself to be mentally and physically beaten down by a person who said they loved me. But because I believe we can share a story and touch somebody in. Hopefully hopefully it makes you rethink your situation. Because in India situation her her boyfriend told her he was going to kill her her and he meant it in my situation. My boyfriend told me he was going to kill me and I believed him the first time he said it. But we will get to my story. I I'm going to share with you. India story a Michigan Woman is dead after she filmed her boyfriend. Allegedly loading his gun and threatening her with the weapon. India Keke tragically died one day after her twentieth. Birthday and what prosecutors are calling a fatal domestic violence dispute mccomb county prosecutor. Peter Eric Smith said in a statement released by his office last week. Eighteen year old. Kevin Dixon was charged with first degree murder carrying a concealed weapon and felony firearm. For his girlfriend's death. The release said Dixon was scheduled to be arraigned last Thursday. It's currently being held without bail local station K. W. T. X. reported on Sunday Smith's office did not not immediately respond to people magazine's requests for comment and a lawyer for Dixon could not be immediately located by people in footage obtained by local. ABC Station W. Xyz Detroit. Dixon can be seen sitting in a car and pulling out a gun. You think I'm playing He asks into video which was taken by mackey. The two had reportedly got into a heated argument in Dixon's driveway in Warren Michigan again. Just north of Detroit okay mackey. Dan says in the footage before Dixon says these big big four or five hollow. TIPS GONNA eat you up. Dixon allegedly shot McKay arm. Sorry shot mackey. Shortly after the video was recorded it before driving the vehicle to east point with mackey still inside. He Dixon was pulled over in east point for erotic. Driving in McKee was pronounced dead on the scene at five fifty one. PM last Tuesday. According to Smith's office Dixon's mother Nikitas. Dixon was arrested on Thursday and is being held on one hundred thousand dollars. Bond mccombs county sheriff's Office online nine records show. ABC reported that she was arrested outside of the courthouse at her son's arraignment for being accessory after the fact and tampering with evidence after Dixon allegedly called her asking for help getting rid of the murder weapon. The mccomb county sheriff's Office listen. Smith's office did not immediately respond. The People's requests for comment lawyers for Kevin and the key to Dixon could not be immediately located by people magazine. Gene Smith said that Mackie's death is the sixth murder case resulting from a domestic violence situation. That office had received in the past two months in urged anyone facing a similar situation to flee. The scene quotes my staff and I are committed to continued prosecution of these offenders to the fullest extent under the law. These acts will not be tolerated in our community in quote. Please if you're facing imminent violent situation leave the situation immediately and call police. He said do not staying the and record the incident. It could be the difference between life and death. Vigil was hailed for mackey on Sunday. Night at Saginaw a high school from which she previously graduated Mackie's father Joseph Poke echoed Smith sentiment at the vigil saying to w any MTV five lettera father's protect you. Let your uncles your brothers let the community protect you. Go to somebody tells tale somebody somebody will help you. Because they don't WanNa see this ending he also said I know she was very loved but to see everyone comes together like this. It just means a lot in a there was a large turnout at the vigil. We're we're star shaped balloons were released in her honor in that was via people magazine. So now we've heard India story and let me tell you the video this. She recorded just prior to her own. Death is available online. If anybody really needed to see that there it does not Show her death. It just shows those moments leading up where he was threatening her. He was taking the bullets out of this weapon and wiping his fingerprints off of them. He planned to kill her and end made sure his fingerprints would not be on the bullets so he anticipated on dumping her somewhere. This is a the real life walking talking piece of Shit and now let's talk from A A maternal standpoint. I've got a son and my son knows I will not uphold him in any wrongdoing. If something happens in you're protecting in yourself or your family I've got your back one hundred percent but if it's because you are a jealous hearted selfish hearted violent individual and you're out here taking your violence your anger out on defenceless women. I got nothing for you. You'll sit wherever they take you and you will rot. And and I know that every parent doesn't feel that way but you know what some daughters would still be alive. If mothers took that seriously you don't uphold hold your child in his wrongdoing but here we have a mother who is who has allegedly. Because I don't know this to be true. We have a mother who has allegedly moved a weapon. Four her son who just killed somebody that is sick a women we need to be in sort of a sorority. We need to protect other women. Even if the person you're protecting them from shares the same blood as you. We don't need to be out here here in ebeling these young men to be a murderer so now let's start with my story okay. I got unmarried Shortly I think shortly after my twentieth birthday INET that marriage produced my son and then very shortly after my son was born maybe within the next year me and his father broke up so now here I am roughly twenty two years old with a child and for whatever reason I felt like nobody else was going to want me I felt like Oh my God. I'm so young John I've got this little one and nobody else is going to want me because I harbored that feeling inside I probably manifested it outside and because I failed in this marriage I felt like I needed to prove proved to myself in the whole world that I can make a relationship work. I felt like I had a lot to prove. I didn't want to introduce multiple all men into my son's life at a young age so honestly the first guy in I can say the first guy who found. I don't me attractive and wanted to talk to me. I Made I was all in and I guess we can call this guy. Bill deal because I don't really WANNA I don't WanNa poke the Hornet's nest either so bill and I started dating and for in when he was A love bomber. I it was just a lot of love in hugs and kisses in. I just love you so much Tasha and then it was gifts and I just got gift on top of gifts on top of gifts and then after the love bombing one day my sister and I bought outfits that were just like she had one one color and I had one another. Now Mind you. I'm a twenty two year old woman so I must shapely young lady and He saw me going down the street walking down the street with my sister and he literally ace matched those clothes off of my back told me to never ever go outside dress like that again now. That should should've been warning sign enough but I'm trying to make this relationship work because I've already felt like a failure so I start wearing baggy clothes. I start hiding my shapeliness. I started picking up. Wait to like I. I picked up more weight after I met him then while I was pregnant it I just let myself really go because I was afraid. I didn't know this is what the issue was at the time but I was really afraid that you know he would lose his shit. If someone else found me attractive so idea that I I started picking up way. I was wearing baggy clothes. Almost dressing like a boy to be quite honest and the next time a violent situation happened and I had gotten a house and he wanted to move in. I'm just trying to again. Keep this whole situation intact. So so after a few months he moved in and I must have said something that he didn't like and my mother passed away when I was a young girl and I had a few items of furniture and things like that that were hers that I really really was attached to and because he knew ahead an attachment to the stuff he destroyed. It destroyed it all now there. We are car. I've got all the signs that need. This is not a one time thing that this man is going to continue to abuse me and be assured he continued. Then you'd to abuse me One time he was like I'm GonNa give you a Pumpkin head. For whatever the reason I Anna Pumpkin head when we were growing up is I'm Joe Ass until you have not on your head and guess what he kept that fucking promise He kept that promise. There were times where he beat on me. Outside in people with traffic. Would just keep going. Nobody tried to help My own father said. I'm I can't help you because what if I do something and you turn around and go right back with him. Then that will have defeated the purpose of of me doing anything. So he instructed HIMSELF IN IN MY family to not get involved. And there's no blaming because this at the end of it all is all gonna come to me. Come into the conclusion that I needed to get out of the situation. I'm I tried to commit suicide and the only thing that made me admit what I did is I'm like what's going to happen to my son. I had already taken in a handful of prescription Madison. In then my son popped in my mind so idea telltale someone to take me to the hospital. I had my stomach pumped They left they left me in my own filth with charcoal when they pumped my stomach and the vomit in all of that they left all that on me because they are saying to me. This is what this is what that looks like. This is what killing yourself or or attempting to kill yourself. Looks like you're going to be like that so of course. Now I'm back in this man situation and of of course being loved bombed because he don't want me to leave we moved. We moved from Indiana to Georgia thinking. It's going to be a fresh fresh start. You know none of the things that I was doing here in Indiana. That was making him so mad. I'm not going to do any of those things we're GONNA WANNA go here and we're going to start over and everything's going to be different until it wasn't still being abused in. Even though I'm walking on eggshells he still abusing me. He's still just any chance he gets beaten my ass any chance chance he gets in if you know if you knew me younger I was a fighter I had. I didn't even have no fight left in me. I just took it and then one day after a very kind of brutal fight he left. The apartment left me with my son. Fine I collected my son and I tried to run away and in trying to run away. It was dark outside and I wasn't in thinking that we're wearing dark clothes dark outside and I went outside and I got hit by a car in this accident. Could've taken my son's life could've taken my life but I'm I'm really thinking about my baby at this point. It could have taken my child's life We ended up with head injuries. Both of us had broken leg and the only person in Atlanta Atlanta that we knew with him so now we have to make the phone call where I didn't but now the hospital makes the phone call. Eight and and Informs him did. I've been involved in this accident so I've been involved in the next day and I've got a broken leg. I'm all screwed up. My son is got a broken leg. He's all scarred up. We end up back at the apartment that he and I share together and it wasn't even a week. It wasn't even a week before he wanted to have sex. I did not and he attacked me in in this attack. He said to me Bitch Tom of going to kill you now. Now I remember back in my mind when he said Bitch. I'm about to give you a Pumpkin head. And he did just that so when he said Bitch which I'm GONNA kill you. He's a bitch. This time I'm GonNa kill you and I believed him and I knew I had to protect me and and my son so I picked up my crutch and got off fight that I did. I didn't have all those other months. I got all my fight back in that moment where he said Bitch. I'M GONNA kill you and I beat his his mother fucking ass with that crutch now still I'm at a disadvantage because I've got a broken leg muscles got a broken leg and now we have to escape and he's not GonNa be down for long I hobble to the front door got my son on my right hip. I got a crutch under my left arm and I try to make it to the door in get to the door in a swing it open and I'm thinking Oh my God i still gotTa Get away and when I opened that door there was a car accident. NBA NBA apartment parking lot. So of course you have police there and of course they have cameras taking pictures of this Car Accident and when I opened the door and yelled help they looked up. They left that accident. Dan and they immediately started taking pictures of me because I looked battered. I was in horrible shape but I was like not as bad as that motherfucker in there and I know it's not funny because but that was it. That was my by moment. That was when he said that he would kill me. I took that as a promise and I have not looked back so now have men tried to emotionally domain. Me Yes yes. Some men have tried to Emotionally me mentally abused me but never will I accept physical abuse point blank in period. You put your hands on me. That's it now not saying this because I'm saying see she was wrong and I was right because both of us both of us me being around the same age that India was and then Going through at a you know pretty much. The same type hype of behavior is just by the grace of God that I walked away that I was able to move. I mean we if you want the the rest of the story I was homeless in Atlanta. My son and I were staying in shelters. I'm sitting up all night Matt. Mind you both of us have broken legs. I'm sitting up all night. Epp shelters let him sleep while I watched over him. This is an experience that I did did not have to go through. I did not have to go through all of those things if I would have just known my worth from the beginning so I'm saying to any young lady out there. Don't let it go this far. Not just young ladies young men as well. Don't let it go this far if if a woman is constantly demeaning. You constantly beating you down physically or mentally. Do you have to for your own sanity and safety check out this year alone there have been countless. enlists women that I'm looking even right now. We are still looking for a neier blanchard. Who was last seen with some knucklehead ass man and now there was a young lady back home in Indiana beautiful young lady? I can't remember her name. Beautiful young lady who went out on a date with a jealous jealous piece of shit and they found her body in a suitcase on the side of the road. So what I'm saying to you is when somebody displays this that they give zero fucks about your personal safety when a person displays that they'd give zero fucks talks about your rights as a human suggest live without being abused. You have to think of it on your own to say I gotta get the Fuck Outta here I got to go I cannot I cannot be the next true crime story story where everybody is sharing your story and you had to die for the story to be told. They're not playing only if they say they're gonNA beat your ass. They GonNa beat your ass if they say they're going to kill you. Promise you if they don't kill you today they're gonNA kill you now. If you need assistance in getting out there are a myriad of places that will help but off. Top is the domestic the national domestic violence hotline. That's off top and you can just call them anytime. Hi Eight hundred seventy nine seven two three three. I'm going to repeat that number. Eight hundred seventy nine nine nine seven two three three. That's here in the states you can also go to hotline dot. Org and you will find a lot of a wealth of information Concerning domestic violence whether you are being abused because some people don't realize that this is abuse abuse it's easy to talk about the physical part of it but if somebody is calling you bitches in holes and sluts and telling you you stupid moving you your your family hates you. Your family doesn't care for you and Bitch. You can't even do this. What kind of woman are you? You can't cook. You can't clean if somebody is doing this to you constantly gently. Guess what. You're being abused if somebody is financially abusing you if in it it makes me think of her name. Susan Cox Powell. It makes me think of that. He he financially abused her. He mentally abused her. And if you don't know what I'm talking about I'm sorry I just keep throwing cases out there but yeah he hit. Her body has never been recovered. We can't can't even see you know how she was killed if she was killed. Who Killed Her? Because there's been no recovery of her remains however The husband husband in that case ended up killing himself and his two children. Now if you are going through this this type of treatment if you're being treated in a horrible way being abused and your family is a little standoffish official about assisting you can go to the police and I know that is the last thing a lot of us WanNa do because you think you love this person and you don't I wanna see them locked up. Well guess what they either going to be locked up for. beat known you or they're going to be locked up for killing you. It'd it'd be much more conducive for you to go ahead and call the police while you're still alive just like the police said in a the people magazine article that I just read to you. If you feel like you're in this type of situation and you have an opportunity planning exit make your exit strategy. Maybe one day especially. If you don't have children really works out whale just one day when you're supposed to be doing something mundane going to work that day. Tell your your boss. What's going on call in and move in and I mean that's really it this last situation that I'm in a relationship a couple of years back and he? He started feeling like this. What you're doing to me is is kind of demeaning in his kind of abusive an exit strategy is what ended? What wound me up here in Houston and told him I was going to see my son GonNa GonNa go take a trip trips? must not I'll be back and I took whatever I could carry on the plane with me and I never returned because he started giving me not physically abusive. Never can I say this man put his hands on me but he was starting to beat me down emotionally emotionally. And I'm like mentally and I'm like no no no I'm starting to feel like you're pushing the wrong buttons and I got the fuck out because because they're not so much life left at this point I'm I'm in the middle of the he'll I guess you could say and I'm not gonNA spend. It's not one extra moment not one extra second feeling like I'm worthless in anybody. Who makes me feel? Oh like I need to question my own worth. I can do without them. Friend family whomever if you you make me question myself about my worth fuck you. I will see you in my rear view so hello I'm saying all of these things because I do want to reach at least one person if one person listen to this and says I'm the Fuck Outta there. I feel like I've done my job if you just need to talk to somebody body and you want to know if what's going on in your situation is abuse first of all if you've gotta question that it probably but secondly I am on hundred percent onboard with helping young ladies older ladies young men older men. They realize what's going on in their situation. I'm helping them to come to the proper conclusion about what they can do to make sure they are living even their best life. You can catch up with me by TV at G MAIL DOT COM that's T. we see by TV at gmail.com. I'm also on. All the things are the social media accounts are TC by TB. We if you would like to assist this this little podcast financially. I'm also on Patriot. You can go. Patriarch Dot com slash. TC BY TB. I'm always here. Have anybody needs to reach out. I will always be here if I don't get back back to you. Within the first few minutes I guarantee you. I'm going to get back to you because this is very very near in dear to my heart is very important to me to make sure that that my listenership fit knows that they have a safe place. Now I've talked on and on and on I gave gave you my story if you'd like to share your story if you want to do a story timing in you'd like to share your story of how you got out of an abusive situation situation. I welcome any story and I will share it without identifying you if that is important to you again. T. You see Bhai. TB At gmail.com. I really don't have an awful lot more to say I will get that growing up butter fuko episode episode out for you guys next week but this was very very very important to me and I felt like I needed to vent and to share here. You guys look in the show notes if you need that phone number for the national domestic violence hotline and also hotline Dot Org if you need a reminder mind revette always in the show notes for this episode you can definitely find it and with that being said please rate review share the show and I will catch you guys on the next one later. Book words

people magazine India Kevin Dixon mackey Indiana Peter Eric Smith Tasha Pierce Dan Atlanta Detroit Mackie ABC mccomb county sheriff's Office first degree murder ABC Station mccomb county Michigan K. W. T. Madison
152: A Cute Bread and Breakfast and Emotional Grilled Cheese Sandwiches

And That's Why We Drink

1:45:04 hr | 9 months ago

152: A Cute Bread and Breakfast and Emotional Grilled Cheese Sandwiches

"Hey guys we're going back on tour torch or so we have officially released the tour dates online good dot com slash live to see if we're coming to a city near you you hopefully we are and hopefully you can see us and hopefully will have fun and it's going to be a blast you will you will i can promise i can guarantee it we're doing a brand new show so come out and see us if you go to and that's why i drink dot com slash live you can link to all the shows and if this is the fourth or the fifth you're listening there's a presale code called pre-game is not clever is just the funniest it was eve as idea it was obviously an anytime after the six tickets are on sale for the general public yea come see us please happy new year oh i think we're a little early on that one little bit early happy new year we is this our last weekend of two thousand nine hundred i'm sure is wow sunday before new a year so it's the twenty ninth of december this comes out is crazy about twenty twenty like new decade coming up okay well this is the decade where pretty likely we will meet our children meet our children yeah like we'll have kids oh i was like meet them wear okay i at at the hospital i think i hope anyway okay you don't seem to care not to use the phrase it so weirdly like not like we'll have children but like we will meet them i mean we really time travel into the future and i was like my first thought was literally oh my god so time travel going to be real so we can go in and feed children not oh we're going to have them in the practice would be how it goes twenty twenty is going to be a weird decade i think my brain just doesn't automatically think like oh my children i don't know i'm excited to me kids i've kind of but not really i'm not focused on racing towards it i'll see you when i see ya i'd listen to adams in two thousand nine hundred already thinking about it so i'm i'm i'm thinking about my kids for a long long longtime i'm thinking about geo most of the time so i'm a little distracted from that roaring twenty s are back guys that's what i'm actually that's what i thought you could say i'm pretty excited about that because the one thousand nine hundred eighty s where like cool and all but like had a lot of fucking shit that let's ignore that at the twenty twenties is where it's at now the new roaring twenties got the new flappers and that's us oh i'm a flapper now sure i guess i'm clapping right next to you flap in law because we do everything together i guess i'm forced into this weird story this or flop you force me to have children in the twenty twenties so you know what i have a hunch about it okay well we have the children were flopping around all right it's going to be a good time for you guys to i'm sure i'm sure they're my children that are listening day in this decade by the way i don't know if they'll be listening in this decade we'll certainly be listening eventually you know before you showed up you're probably upsetting me and pissing me off today you're probably knowing me go to burgum i'm sure they're listening to this just because they want to hear if i was ever actually cool ironically listening to this to quote me and hate me later listening to it so that they can use have find ammo against us so that when we say you can't swear they say well look at this episode or if we say oh you can't do this ochre scenes drunk mom you're drunk in this episode like i guarantee it kids i don't know yet and i may not even be your parent yet but let's just preemptively ground new right now because i'm sure you've done something this week i don't like so you're in big trouble so just say sorry give me actually if you're listening to the gimme gimme a drink yeah i know i've actually taught you to make grilled cheese by now so please bring me one from sculpture is sure of skill share like in the future is like a holographic thing you know talking to your hover board can you have reported grilled cheese over to me please i would be thrilled i do a lot for you kids so if you could just walk into the room right now and just say thank you i appreciate it say i love you i love you back and say how beautiful we were if you're watching the youtube video say i look really cool when i was young i still look good you still say you didn't change one bit exactly and then on ground you so that makes that deal show this video oh to me in all agree i promise grilled cheese and a drink and say we're beautiful and then you're good yup and also that goes for all of our listeners if you could please send me box address for girl says that's really the way to my heart also i just wanted to say before we do you have any other updates no i'm happy to be spending my last weekend twenty nine hundred with you before your children are last week child data's actually like new year's day so i'm getting ready blazes birthdays as a second so he really was almost a nurse baby oh no i'd say it's every he is one thousand nine hundred ninety so he was like like forty eight hours away from england eighties kid that's true you're totally just dismiss a cut i i love the ninety s some might say is oh yeah he has a hard time because i said it's every year a bit like with christmas and the new year's everyone's hungover and then january second everyone's like we're done with the partying thing never go back to work yeah we go back to work we need to sleep go back to work but he doesn't listen to this so i have some plans your plants can you tell them if he doesn't throw him it's his thirtieth by the way twenty twenty money so i'm planning on this surprise party that i have not been fucking invited to i haven't done i said i'm i'm literally telling you right now and i'd hi though i'd like to give you a hard time i'll be there okay well i don't tell anyone guys don't tell him because it will ruin it okay but also tell them not to listen to this episode just in case he will i can absa fucking lutely guarantee he will not okay gotcha oh i wanna say since we have no other updates thank you to everybody i haven't said this yet who was very kind to me about my top ten list because i know a lot of people were like i won't anthony is not gay he's by so was rack off on that you gave me so much shit for that apparently there is an episode where he literally says oh no idea women so still got a chance ciba's listen i i take full advantage of it secondly a lot of people were very kind about my my just not understanding that it would be a strange thing to also be tracked someone yeah and this was like surprise anyone when was surprised i guess sexuality is a spectrum where thank you we're definitely gonna learn more about that in the second where my children are i think by the time milic twenty-fifty rolls around sexuality and gender aren't even thing it's just like that's what i'm saying we're all floating around doing our thing we're actually flapping flapping i doing are totally one hundred percent universal non binary thing that's what i'm saying it just never really like they were just automatic analysts and then when i said it i guess people would know that about me so i don't know it's not somebody must means that you don't got a label that shit so i said i won't do that's true christine gene unlabeled twenty twenty coming toward the theaters near you a whole decade of that get ready and you wait i can't okay i'm so sorry very alerts talk about yuga please we know that i need to be spoken about at least every thirty seconds will i said this last absurd i feel like we should keep pushing rushing please if you have not yet go get our tickets every live show i have no idea at this point where we are ticket wise and how many people or how many spots are still open but presumably there will be some openings some spaces and we would love to try to get as many tickets as possible and has see as many people as we can a you better be beautiful if you're not on don't buy a ticket just don't even come back now the guy who are super pumped twenty twenty two or sounds just super cool yeah twenty two thousand we're gonna come big and we have a new logo and a tornado your name in the whole shebang we have by this point presumably figured out butterflies wrenching we're very excited we're very very nervous so please buy tickets we'd love to sell out venues and we would love to see see you just a little bit that i understand we need some antacids in here oh i need an antacid i told you to bring me a grilled cheese but i'm having some dietary dairy issues that's the truth that's probably true i'm still probably going to be wearing this krones is cray t shirt i imagine the twenty twenties you and i had some point like live together just we just morph our homes out of the i mean we basically do now so conventionally we're just going to say oh stop with pretending to my kids go give accuracy and a hug and bring her as well if we have children we have to there's no way we're going to function they're going to be the weirdest fucking kids like they're just going to be serious crime and paranormal shit there's literally robert the dolls and i'm gonna be like you can't touch that it will haunt you they're going to be the weirdest kids especially especially at a sleep over like i'm not allowed to touch dolls cursed yeah i actually brought my dealt with me it's a little it has a demon in it but don't worry you just don't say don't say its name three times and we'll be fine also i brought a ouija board but my mom makes me do a do a chant beforehand so that nothing bad happens kids if you don't have friends it's it's my fault not yours don't don't take it personal fucked up yeah yeah i was bound to fuck you up i think your grandma's fault go talk a truly did some stuff to me i did it to you call her option the circle of life uh-huh flapping through teller if she didn't mess me up i wouldn't have messed you up so bad that's how it grow it's all grandma's fault and then bring her she needs on my mom is told me that when i have kids she wants to be a nanna so i'm assuming that's what we go with kids tell your nana's that it's all her fault everything i'm assuming we're going it's just because you know the german tradition perfect yep all right now kids go in butto story yeah this is not for your ears as you're the grilled cheeses made is an adult surrounding myself but you're muffs earmuffs loves i think you are pretty fab especially because you're using your literally wearing the blanket from fads that fun i i also think you're very fit which i think makes fun i appreciate that you say that even though it's probably not true but fab to fund really does help me feel that way and you are literally i mean you have the soft blanket on you right now i it never giving up on let's clear yes so the blanket is fo for it is it was in the winter boxes my favorite friggin item that i received five is a self self-care made simple it's boxes that are delivered straight to your door so no there's no more wasted time searching for your new favorite thing i mean q. imagine a blanket soft as a little baby bunny just showing showing up at your door let it's fo- for and there is no boxes come filled with eight to ten full-size beauty fitness home and wellness products from some of your favorite brands offered us forty nine ninety nine so once a season you visit visit their website to start customizing your inbox which is super fund so the untied fo-for blanket i think you probably do want that but you can also pick the rebecca beanie said if you'd prefer i mean you know who's to say it's sir and in just a few minutes you'll have created perfect box ready to be shipped to your doorstep four you're very on boxing moment so the box retailer forty nine ninety nine but always has a value of over two hundred dollars there's a lot of times it's really much more than that come on christina's it i definitely get to experience like how wonderful it is when it comes to my house and i mean you guys should try it yourself you can use coupon code drink for ten dollars off your first box at fab fun dot com that's coupon code drink for ten dollars off your first box at WWW dot fab fit fun dot com so this is a a story that i covered at a live show that we have not released this was my story i didn't kansas city well yeah well this is the story of the sauer castle also since we're not going to kansas city in our two thousand twenty tour this is a nice little oh mosh to you because we did have a great time time not personnel just didn't fit in the schedule yes so we do love you and i have a special place in my heart so we love you that's true i think in kansas city was where you got one of our fans fans gifted your shirt that was signed by yellow buoy no you're totally right of course you have a soft spot for kansas city kids don't touch that that is mommy's even though i've turned it into a pillow and it's all my role in weinstein's don't touch it anyway so this is the sauer castle saying right i'm sure that's the german word yeah zella sour i'm not gonna say like just say so zala do our the castle in german schloss do you say that before or after the like you say you say schloss zoa schloss zoa noche weinstein which and show exactly like that right that's what the disney castle is based on another matter okay fun fact no bring it up let's hear it nice wrenched and like the big beautiful like cinderella's castle yes the one in like the winning says walt disney has all the things the nice feinstein how about that it's a beautiful place okay anyway sorry going so i think this was the case at least it sounds like it looks like this was the case based on my notes but i think kansas city was actually one of our earliest shows in the fact that we still still use a projector at our shows and we still did and that's why we draw thank we must have i don't know if we find out in my i don't see any and that's why we maybe we're just using the projector maybe i don't know i don't think we did so my notes back when we use a projector to make sure that i would actually click the slides at the right time i would put this massive if highlighted dot in front of a bullet note so i knew to press the button the big red line and it's there which means that i must have used a projector maybe eh the projector is broken that day or something i don't know it was we were on our way out of using the projector at live shows yeah but anyway so if we use a projector then you're one of the only people ever sauce using slides in our shows congratulations to you okay so soure castle again true to fashion i just picked the story before we started i have not read the notes yes so we're gonna ride this ride together and it's going to be bumpy fantastic a dramamine now get ready so we start apparently almost one one hundred fifty years ago cool because it literally says almost one hundred fifty years ago so probably we've reached one hundred fifty now since it's almost twenty twenty oh maybe about a a year ago ugas so this castle is apparently almost one hundred years old it is listed as one of the ten most endangered buildings in kansas city this is where i probably told the audience to go ooh ooh influ so in eighteen fifty eight there was an austrian man named anton sour anton onsala and his wife franziska oh that's my sister's name franchesca the same thing but because francesca i got the image if i'm assuming it's francisco but anton and his wife francesca and they're five kids emigrated to new york city to be near family only in eighteen sixty eight francesca died and anton was sick with TB to berkeley losses my favorite consumption he moved just family to kansas city so he could be near the fresh air because apparently kansas city had some of the freshest air in the country and you still do and at the time if you had consumption consumption slashed they thought the best way to heal yourself is to be out in the fresh air so that's why they ended up moving to this area got it he fell in love with his second wife there named mary who was a widow widow with two daughters we will have an affirmed cisco she died she died and then he also got sorry i i i don't know how she died just as an eighteen sixty eight she died and then he contracted he got it got it so then once he moved to kansas city i think she probably died when they were in new york and then he was by himself and sick so he brought his kids to to oh kansas city got TV and casey there it is that's probably exactly what you said there honestly this is probably an exact re-enactment that we don't even know where reenacted burns like they're saying the thing and we're like are we doing the thing yup we are so he fell in love with his second wife mary who was a widow with two daughters together they eh but the property for their family of nine yikes that's a lot of people which which actually became a family of fourteen because they had five more kids oh did you like how i learned that with you i was like oh bigger so he used this property to build their mansion and it was nicer than any mansion nearby and it had a four story lookout tower lord almighty that sounds fun four stories i think a lot of stairs though you the elevator was not here yet they had a four story look out tower marble grand parlor fireplaces fireplace wow a library and a music space it's kind of cute super cute the mash also had a twelve foot ceilings logo twelve foot ceiling sounds not wildly all this kind of that's probably a good ten but yeah i guess twelve back then was like a crazy that's true had a four story staircase made of walnut and oak trees died that day you you that's a real tragedy imported chandeliers and furniture came from italy interesting fun fact it was built by the first trained architect in kansas city named asa beebe cross ABC and it was known the building in the in this town was known to be quote the finest example of an italian in villa and the entire state of kansas wow although there was not much to compare to associates kansas city kansas not missouri kansas city kansas oh sorry guys is over half of your city or actually i think it might have yet in the entire state of kansas okay yes sorry well we love you are we surprised sized like i'm i wish i could act shock wish i remembered if people reacted to that because i feel like they would have been like wait what probably did and then they were like this isn't that's why we drank himself i'm sorry so fun fact a perk of this property is that it was very close to the santa fe trail which at the time was the main highway in the area okay okay in eighteen seventy eight ten years after he got circulars is a move their their infant daughter helen died yikes and was temporarily rarely buried in the family garden temporary oh dear a year later anton died in the master bedroom and was buried at union hill cemetery which apparent i remember that getting a lot of applause i weirdly was just about to say that sounds familiar like why is it ruined clapping i i'm sorry maybe that one's in missouri and they're like finally state they were trying to help me break either and so then his daughter was reburied next to him okay oh the baby the baby was ball bearing XM so in one thousand nine hundred and mary hanged herself in the house shit and one of their daughters named eve remained in the house after her mother suicide and she married william and had one child helen okay so now i guess she's running the house with her husband and daughter berkshire and after they got divorced eve married john s perkins who already had hang us oh she got divorced and then she married a guy named john who already had six children zone so now he had now she had seven kids in this house with her they apparently had three more children together so now it's a family of twelve and then john died by suicide with a handgun at age seventy three oh eve and their son john junior what what had an infant daughter what her and her son had a daughter now you guys all right wrong i think i read this wrangler eve married john perkins john dies even john perkins son john junior yet an infant even even john's son thank god only i was like i'm doing something right so they're the two couple their son had an infant i john junior now has okay so this is like the fifth generation incest in this so far as far as i was like i could not i know i did not read this didn't happen onstage so even john son john junior had an infant daughter cecilia in cecilia drowned in the swimming pool there's a lot of death breath of miss house terrible and like generations across nevertheless john junior stayed with eve in the house and his two sisters eva aw marguerite oh these are beautiful name some of my favorite names very elegant names yes celia marguerite eva when you're just being nice to eva social oh editor parts better due to edit some better because that's how this word just totally right over your voice with better content so when eve passed stowaway in one thousand nine hundred five a man named paul berry he bought the house and lived there until his death in eighteen in one thousand nine hundred six okay so he also had to regularly when he was alive had to regularly shoe people from trying to break in or vandalize the building which became apparently a daily occurrence and in one thousand nine hundred seventy year after he died another other couple bought the mansion who wanted to turn it into a bed and breakfast bread and breakfast i like bread and breakfast additional additional aside to your breakfast is more bread cheese bread okay so another couple of eighty seven they wanted to turn to a BNB with colonial characters attached attached to it up so they actually dress them up and have them reenacting things that people do into colonial character to the house not like no literal monia williamsburg berg where you're walking around and it's like i love this i'd rather be left alone because i love it's so much i mean maybe if i'm just watching if two like interact i just i met a bed and breakfast i'm like i just feel like you you would interact with colonial character of the way that all the women in the office did with dan franklin oh yeah i'd be like tell me more about do you wear boxers or pantaloons saloons sauce e exact creeps me i imagine you would be an excuse me oh sorry yeah you'd be avoiding the rooms where they're going to interact would be very uncomfortable so a year later ended up i guess the bed and breakfast a lot of people felt that same way and it didn't work out well so in eighty eight it was sold to carl lop who was actually descendant of anton sour so it went back into the family okay and carl wanted to restore the building and apparently there's a quote from karl this house was built built by my great great grandfather and my grandmother my grandmother and my mother they all grew up here so of course you would want to buy that house i would at least a family so that's the history at the here are the ghost oh yeah there's a lot to talk about here perfect so there's an apparition of a little boy that walks past the windows that's nice super there are the doors open and close on their own the windows open closed on their own there is a shadow figure of woman hanging in the tower okay okay okay and this is all alleged let's be clear i think most ghosts are yes just before someone who lives there as like that's not true it's like i'm not saying it as i'm just saying this is what the internet has told me it's true the internet so that's true i'm saying there have been rumors and i am reporting on the rumors i'm saying don't sue us please we don't we came on so this is a fable okay they're a small operation and we can't afford that many lawyers we did our best so there is a shadow figure of a woman walking looking bhai and standing in the lookout tower and sometimes she's crying i wonder if it's the same like ghosts have to buy two stories yeah yeah i wonder if you like residually usually yeah maybe it's like i don't know that's a good question like maybe different clips of your life can all show themselves like if you have the energy to do that or energy of but then also like why would you as a spirit ever want to pick that residual right like i want to pick the one that represents the actual death of my suicide so that everyone can watch yeah it seems like you wouldn't do that but maybe you can't pick maybe it's just i had so much energy to it felt like that was the thing that maybe like certain times of day maybe like if you could like if there's there's energy left of you like to garden and smelling the flowers that only happens in the morning but at night people can see you like in the lookout tower crying sure every night crying in the lookout our day smelling flowers by night crying won't want so people have reported hearing a single gunshot oh which could have been and from anton son our son in law who shot himself right there are floating lights inside outside of the building lights have also appeared in the lookout tower amp people have said that they have heard baby crying which might be helen which was amazon's infant daughter people have comments that the activity is the most intensively attic people have empathetic experiences there's a feeling emotions that are not there's in this house silla just start crying for no reason and get angry for no reason area to me there's also a song that apparently has hummed or sang throughout the house by distant distant voices spooky their strange sounds in the house mainly the sound of someone walking around upstairs but nobody's there which is footsteps the fireplace tools and cover will rattle and shake on their own that would tariff fireplace yeah no fun fact i when i was a little kid i almost poked my out because my mom for the first two years of my life didn't let me have sugar and then on my second birthday chocolate cake for the first time and i lost my goddamn ah downwind and i was sprinting around the house and i fell into the fireplace tools and i landed on only an inch away from my poker yeah so i had like this massive for like the first like two or three weeks of my second year i like had this massive black i ooh god because i really really fell on directly with my face so children i hope you're not listening children this is why i don't give you chocolate cake until your third until until you're thirty i'm like yes chocolate until you thirty i least take the fire pokers and put them somewhere else when you're trying cake for the first time might be the better idea my mom was asking for a clearly clearly she wanted some trouble to happen to show the cake my board here's some sugar and some sharp that same birthday was the year where everyone win the nineties was obsessed with barney specifically how still argue i was the number one i will not debate you on that that was also the here were all the parents were fed up with barney in in their house and so on my second birthday there was a barney pin yada and my mom said all of the drunk parents who are like in their late twenties early thirties were just eating shit shit barney and all of the two year olds are going it's interesting when people by opinions of very lovable characters and i'm like you realize they're about to bash them in that can't be good for their mental health i would think there's a sea of children who are traumatized because of my party i imagine that it didn't go well apparently ended up in the hospital comedy comedy of errors let's put it that way let's definitely call that com nope nope i tried it didn't work okay so fire tools oh yeah there's apparently wants on psycho says that she felt a doctor who died there and could smell medicine and like the smell of a hospital when he was nearby ooh weird yeah you would think indistinct smells maybe the smell of like fried chicken we'll follow me like something really delicious better than hospital smells like a lot of things i'd prefer if you could be the haunted by a smell or if you have a smell associated with you when you haunt people day what smell one probably a food item maestra chicken fried chicken or a grilled cheese i know i i'm i'm just i'm really what is going on today really hungry for groceries we should get some what's gonna grow cheese dinner is going to be up soon get some choosing but yesterday when we ordered food would just never recorded again so we should probably finish this but then we'll get culture and then get grilled cheese are they do you have cheese i can make i make a fucking mean grilled cheese because goldstar talent the bread the sporting gut tama emmett christie i didn't know we were going to be in this predicament so when i was a in my early twenties which is not a thing i can say any more is terrifying i chaperoned my cousin tanner i chaperoned him for his spring break when he graduated high school and i was he came back alive but beyond that i wasn't are very let's say you were the chaperone in your early twenties i made sure rate fucking time he had a blast oh i believe leave it because the person in charge was the one causing the one who always encourages everyone else to get wasted is the one who chevron definitely listens to this show now so i remember there there was one day where i think i lost him i don't really remember children you're not allowed to be with with fungal him any longer there needs to be a chaperone for you and funchal him at all times i remember remember i got him i think his dad since to this that is dad's very j. j. i think uncle jeff who calls himself huge as my favorite so UGA actually is he really trusted me i'm about to tell you should've known better that's afraid that trust but but he was like you're going to keep them in line right now like yes sir and do some really really drunk like super drunk they had fun odd but i made them so many girl cheese that was that was the week where i learned how to master girl cheese i'm pretty sure i made like thirty in the matter of a weekend so seems like i i would like to go on spring break with you where you just get me drunk and feed me i am a really fun person because i mean to be fair you jay did like should have trusted me i'm going to get people fucked up but i'm gonna make sure everyone's safe safe and like you just said you lost him i will not believe he's lost himself but that's why i was fun at parties because even though i didn't drink like everyone had a blast because i would take care of everyone afterward so you would be fun to take care of you if you get drunk i will make you the best coaches of your life i promise gone so many times and i've never received a girl cheats story never knew talk until today how much really wanted really wanted him always okay so moving on i'm not gonna tell any stories about what happened that spring break is i think i still want my uncle to love me it's i think he came back alive he just graduated from school he's he's doing well in his life so i didn't cause any traveler the psychics small fried chicken that's how we got where we are okay so neighbors have said that they all have heard a laughter shouting and crying from the house they have also heard yelps and screams as well as knocking sounds coming from all over the building there's a regular apparition of a woman who paces the widow's walk walk up and down oh no oh my goodness many have actually seen another woman's apparition standing in the house staring at you from the top right window that don't like that one i don't like when they stare no i don't like when they know alive people stare that's correct me neither although people do say i stare into the camera a lot and they play a good blinking you can just staring contest with me and i'm like i don't even realize i do that i think i'm just mesmerized by the late that is true you guys in the cameras in the middle of a massive passive ring light we can't see ourselves it's just like a big light yeah if we ever look washed out or too dark we can't tell because the blinding us it's very blinding so on halloween following the spirits of a man and a woman can be seen together in the tower weird i'm there are reports of ghostly moans and people see fire in the tower and flickering lights throughout its rooms oh jeez that's pretty intense that's like imagine if they didn't seem to burn down you right i don't feel like fire was ever really this has to be part of the urban legend part of this because i don't know of didn't seem like a fire door age right who knows i don't know w weird if you like if you died in a very tame way and then now like fire everyone if you're bored you like i bought died in a bar boring web better that much power as a spirit i could just conjure fire fire for no reason -solutely good time so cindy jones i don't know who that is was and i think it was like a witness to something doing so i don't know who this versus sydney was in the library one day with her father preparing her friend's wedding talking about the spirits and around in this in in the castle apparently her dad had a story so he jumped on this and said oh i know about the spirits at that castle apparently at one point her dad was repairing the ceiling there in part of the ceiling got loose and picture flew out onto the floor oh no it was a picture of anton granddaughter who not only looked like the bride aide who it's going back now she's a the wedding was happening at this castle well yeah i would imagine so i gathered but so the the bri that was getting married in matt castle that day a picture flew as the ceiling cindy's friend oh okay and so a picture of anton granddaughter came out of the ceiling that day looked exactly the bride and that was the day of her twentieth death anniversary yikes she said you better not get married on my death day thank you very much cindy has been quoted saying saying i've been terrified and most of the time it's during the day my no she must work there i think she does work there wasn't we're all ready did not say it was going to be bumpy you said she it was a friend of the bride and that's unleashed she's there every day she works there and as a friend of the bread sure we'll go decide friend's wedding it says well okay all right a past me would i would fight you on this but i don't know enough anymore fighting i'm just trying to solve the puzzle aren't we all so send on doing a great job yeah no no no so cindy as i've been terrified and most of the time it's during the day my father in law laughs at me but he's also had experiences that he can't explain i can't feel it but i wonder if it's just i can feel it but i wonder if it's just in my head so apparently most of it is in her head and most the stories are local lore say most it's in our head yup well apparently ghost shaming okay i think i wrote it in because i knew that when i'm on propranolol slams i forget things things that i've prepared like not that i'm like only when you're on propranolol not now or any other time specifically when i'm on stage and i'm so nervous to be there if i have a line i want to say i'll just write it in to make sure i say because i know nervous oh sure yeah so it's like i'm just gonna keep it here so i think i read that in so i would make sure to say like well most of it apparently is in her head and most of the stories are local lore historian j r russell is an author who wrote the nineteen seventy article old mansion filled with legend and trying to disprove all the stories they've literally been people for decades now trying to preface interesting our purpose he says the most of the stories have no actual origin urgen they are stories told by people in the area and after so long they just kind of stick most the stories of weird sounds and items in the house moving on their own are actually the kansas city he wind if the windows are opening just kind of fly across the table and you just gotta go i'm pretty sure we were like is that true kansas city to and he says that all of the lights that people see our reflections of the windows are off of the windows he says that the sounds of the people screaming are from the owners dog who had a voice box accident embarks weird money f- forgotten imagine if you're so powerful that you're barks despite your voice box having some issues any you are still barking loud enough that the entire town believes a legend that's true you're little you're of this story you're doing a good job man to his credit though most of the stories seem to have come from the jones family lived there so cindy may have been trying to market the castle okay so sunday you not only work there but also was there yeah i kind of person you were mad at me for correcting i shut up i wasn't mad i just shamed me to kasindi live there apparently so cindy is just as elusive character for all the people who've ever lived there i guess or ever entered the building so cindy may have been trying to market the castle originally when they were trying to sell it as it was haunted so that people would want to come but most of the stories seem to happen only to her and only when she's alone including her saying that she got she got on tape recorder apparently saying ou like sound oh will the and tried to market as if there were ghost did she actually do that including her saying she got on a tape recorder she did so she said that she got like actually she said that she got on tape the sound of ghosts but it's probably her going ooh i see that we used to go and then we would hide them in closet around the house and my mom was like please stop wasting all of our batteries such a weird such a weird life had no nothing else except we didn't have the internet friends so when asked to show its others to show this tape where she heard a ghosting who when asked to show to other shia magically lost the tape recorder so so it might not even exist at all yeah she just says that she had it i imagine i imagine she probably did record it and then realized until two alive i sound to align this shrew too much like cindy in this tape to cindy i need to make them more spooky so beyond on the spirits in this house there are also other legends about the property which JR russell the historian tried to debunk one is that buried treasures on the property so people think it is in this area because after anton died a fence was being built around the land and a shovel that when they were building the fence around it a shovel hit a brick and found a brick foundation underneath with unusual stones at each corner metal detector i thought it as soon as you emplo already so apparently there's a brick foundation people to know about and there were some weird stones at every corner so each corner had eros each cornerstone because they found all the stones had eros on them pointing in the same basic direction and people think those were lines they converge eventually to where the treasury's got choose cam another legend is that there is a secret tunnel to the river from the castle but the hill the castle sits on is solid rock in no tunnel i see so that's been like debunked that one's i've been to another legend is that a man that once lived on the property murdered his whole family bury them in the backyard and then die by suicide so another legend interesting interesting legend but the timelines don't add up for this and no murders on the property have ever been documented they want you think that's a tall storey hotel so another legend is that this land was stolen from the shawnee tribe that's probably very believable wow what a legend that is i'm sure it's like wow allege also historical fact for most parts of the country okay got that's a tribe i prior told us times shana tribe is the one where we live in cincinnati shannon road how about that the so there's records does that show that in eighteen fifty nine there was a native named tom big knife who owned the property and continued to live there for several years until the eighteen sixties when anton bought the land from him okay and the last local legend is that at the end of the civil war a woman who lived in this mansion was told her husband was coming back from war and he would be coming back on a particular ferry sorry but when he didn't show up she thought he must be dead so she died by suicide he wasn't dead knows the ferry he caught another one and came home to her dead which which again i guess believable but as someone who has now read as of right now one hundred fifty two stories like this i feel like eighty five of them have been abroad waiting for her husband and come back from trope and he then like mrs misses the ship and comes back the next day and because like it was twenty four hours later chewed like devices unbearable grief i feel like it happens it's kind of a trope by now so many inaccuracies there was eighteen fifty nine the land belonged to native american tom big knife a married couple did not live there so when for the the bride to have to debunk this it's right to debunk this one that the bride was there waiting for her husband so tom big knife own this property not married couple the tower was built for the sours and nobody lived there before them so there's no way that she would have been there to have died by suicide there because the story because she died in the tower and also there couldn't have been oh and then some people will say well maybe it was a couple like a distant relative that was visiting the sour family at the time time and maybe it happened when this our family lived there but the family didn't own the place yet they didn't live there so no one really to the sours died there so tom big knife had it and then in this hours and there was no problem between god okay so a local in town named jason simmons he made a facebook page to raise awareness of the castle to raise funds and restore store it which kind of backfired because although a lot of people garnered interest it also brought a lot of vandals to the house which means every time that carl lop the descendant the who wants to restore the place it's like a local was trying to help carl by saying like look how great this castle is we should all wanna raise funds for it but but now the person who lives there carl he keeps wanting to set up renovations but they keep getting pushed back because people keep breaking in oh my god people stop it so it's still isn't fixed up or or at least at the time that i told the story twenty fifteen there's a facebook message which is very long but i read it at the live show so i'll read it here too but it is a facebook message from carl lop up discussing these i guess these incidents la- message to whom to i guess the all those interested in the kansas city area he posted to the group he posted to this facebook page that a logo made to help raise awareness of it and then he jumped on some makeup post so twenty fifteen carl op says from the mid fifties on the the castle has been the subject of constant trespassing attempted break-ins dangerous encounters and often violence as a result from the day i purchased the castle attempted to keep a low profile for the castle believing that the fewer people who knew about the castle the better than this local was like let's make a facebook page everybody look at it unfortunately the facebook page has brought the castle so the attention of thousands thousands of people creating tremendous problems for the castle and the restoration efforts the constant flow of traffic with people trespassing on the property and trying to break in is a sad byproduct of this facebook page really like shading telling millions of people about it too so you're no that's why i'm putting it here so nobody look kasowitz these asking for its people i listened to classic carl windows shot out every month or smashed up by those that break in my caretaker and dogs are harassed nightly and often threatened with physical violence who are these people who are like oh facebook group historical whatever the windows in looking at historical i guess they're like looking for places to like or maybe they just z. a. hooligans becomes more well known and people with bad intentions serve actually word of mouth gets to the wrong people yeah while this has happened occasionally in the past the facebook page has accelerated the level of attention and therefore damage from the people wanting to encounter ghosts okay so it's people who here it's haunted trying to break in doing the windows okay okay very violent people trying to find the the police are called on almost nightly almost nightly basis to arrest people who are trespassing on the property but because of this i will dispel l. the myths that most people on this page enjoy fantasizing about there are no ghosts and no evil spirits inhabiting the castle or the property there is no buried treasure no no secret tunnels no bodies buried there and nobody hanging in the tower sincerely carl g lop so poor carl even if there is something there he probably felt obligated applegate to cover it up so it doesn't even matter like don't do that it could be hiding place in the world don't fucking trust and threatened violence and shoot windows out in harassed the dog so at the end of this i am telling a haunted story that may or may the location may or may not even be haunted according to him it's not although even if it is i i would want want to not tell that to people if keeping the place safe and like the people who live there and the dog and the dog's so that is the story of this hour castle the city okay okay that was fun did you know that if everyone in the US spot just one used item instead of a new one in two thousand twenty it would save nearly six billion pounds of carbon emission holy crap that's 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dot com slash AT WW d. okay only one more story and then christine is gonna start eating grilled cheese can't wait however you guys are in for a trip because this is probably blay maybe like the most the story that i've wanted to cover most throughout the entire podcast like what i am okay so we have you done this before have at a live show but i've revamped my notes i did not my notes as you can tell cindy was for youth at least fifty percent of those stories and there was added to the net you unveiled them over them unveiled the end bentham well blow me away then with your brand new research hopefully now i'm nervous incessant yours i'm hoping there's no incest nor sure cindy's but we'll find out together nurse crust so this is a story that covered now speaking of like covering places that we're not going to to because we feel bad and we we we still love you even though you guys are maybe mad at us i promise it's not personal it's not US purpose but i'm covering bring a story from salt lake and this is a story that i had wanted to cover for ages and when we went to salt lake i was really excited to tell it and i have since researched a lot more more gotten way more invested and involved in the story and this is the story of the disappearance of susan powell okay i don't remember this not at all don't think say okay let's go disappearances appearances on your side of this podcast eventually you kind of lose track of them to be fair there's a lot of brides waiting on pins in your store you can probably start placing bets if the story i'm going to tell us about a bribe it's called drinking game every time there's weeds true i need a new updated drinking old ones i feel like new rules because we would love some new roles that's fun yeah yeah okay so i just wanted to clarify that since i did these notes in salt lake city i have listened to the cold podcast ask and it's probably i would say it's probably one of the best podcasts i've ever listened to i moved pretty quickly but it's like one of the most informative well researched in well-done podcast i've ever listened to and it is about this case is about this case only only wow it's very in depth and very long so i i also preface i know a lot of people have suggested i listened to it and i couldn't tell you but i was or had but i also want to say like for those who love that show and listened like this is not going to be nearly as the detailed us because obviously that that podcasts had like eighteen episodes is an hour long episode i can't fit that all but if you want more allegation it's so good so i also apparently back before i'd watched a documentary called susan powell and ID murder mystery i love ID i i know good stuff love ID three podcasts morbid generation y. own cold podcast and i got information from heavy dot com the seattle all times in the salt lake tribune so let's jump in got susan cox who was born in nineteen eighty one and grew up in puyallup washington in the LDS church she was as well liked in our community she was very bright fun outgoing had a lot of friends and this is just like a fun fact about her and i remember my notes we're very long in this show went waylay in our manager came the show and was like falling asleep in the audience so i'm sorry if you were there and we're like it is this is a long show yeah that's another reason why we're we're not gonna do double shows at at these cities yeah we did two in one night and every time we did one that was we didn't do many but every time we did a live show that we did another live show the second show oh went so late that like not that nobody was laughing because i wasn't funnier entertaining but people were literally falling asleep because they'll lay it happened to work out that every time we had a a second show it was like it started like eleven o'clock at night which ended at like one in the morning dealers i just wanna go to bed we had one show in nashville that started a like eleven thirty or laying was really what was tough because it and it was pouring rain and we were sitting there in this room like pouring rain and the roof echoed so as we were talking there was just leading we kept making awkward jokes like yup there's the alien again and we were like this is so terrible so but also like people were just bolinger falling asleep by the time the people from that show got to have their meet and greet and walk away to in the that was rough it was tough on all of us so anyway that's why we are not doing the shows in one night yeah there's no nobody's having fun even if you're trying your hardest manager who was like i didn't know what i signed up for the the my point is that my notes were really long and i had to cut them back alive the time so now i'm trying to expand the back to what they were before and one of the fun facts that that i loved growing up she really loved animals and she and her sister created the bird club when they were little crush it just was so sweet and she lovebirds and she always grew up with like parakeets and things mm-hmm so just tell you a little bit about her susan's family cared deeply about being a part of the LDS church and they were really strong about their religious beliefs by the time susan was nineteen she was hoping to get married she was ready to start a family within the church really important to her to stay in the mormon church in two thousand a nineteen year old susan attended church gathering for singles and that's where she met twenty four year old josh powell they bonded over similar interest which is josh had had a parrot oh tweet tweet tweet tweet motherfucker let's fall in love you're right they get your deepak peppy sorry thank deepak tweet tweet okay where are we right he get a period okay so bonded she really liked him and unfortunately while susan's upbringing was pretty sheltered idyllic and happy josh's it was pretty much exactly the opposite so a little bit about his family he was one of four kids and his family while initially being part of the church later on the parents started having some pretty serious problems and they kind of stepped out of the church after his parents got divorced his mother and father would often kidnap children from each other like it was just a very contentious divorced is in custody situation josh's dad stephen was very abusive toward the children he mostly took it out on josh when the kids were like there are some examples one of them being when the kids wet the bed he would force them to take an ice bath too like i do remember this terrible is really really really fucked up he would force them into a nice bath to try and and quote unquote shock the behavior out row super great he also had an addiction to porn and he would force his children to watch from a very young age his daughter actually said this i learned coal pockets his daughter said one time they had gone on a trip together just her and her father and in the hotel room he made her watch porn and explain how it made her feel deal yeah that's that's the question we're in is this the one where you fucking saying to me it's like when they figure is len we'll figure it are we gonna hold hands again we are up to do i consent to the hand holding i suppose oh my god i'm so excited okay great a anyway coming i warned you anyway so josh anyway with drew up in his household obviously it was tumultuous it was toxic it was abusive and this manifested in his behavior being extremely loud he's obnoxious he bragged about himself he was constantly talking about himself like he never like in a situation people are always very put off by it because he would just turn everything to him and be like a very much a know it all know better than everyone else and just that kinda guy where you're like ugh not him again let's say susan's friends and family were not thrilled when she said that they were getting married they were like they're not this guy i know he has a parrot but he does not have more redeeming qualities so that we can take you to a pet store and like you get your around here on on my god there are still really young obviously she was nineteen twenty four in order to save money they lived with josh's dad steve for awhile and in two years later they moved to a salt lake city suburb called west valley city and they bought a cute little house and when susan got pregnant with her first son charley josh she i was very excited and josh just kind of began to change he became more aggressive controlling one might say abusive she was like okay maybe this is temporary maybe he's just in a bad place in like we'll work it out spoiler alert that's not the case so one example of this when susan went into labor her dad chuck had come in to like be with her and he and susan she's like i'm i'm i'm in labor and he's he and susan say josh we gotta go to the hospital the baby's coming and he's on his laptop up top and he's like r. s. computer and he's like i'm actually really busy right now okay there's literally a tweet going round right now like a screen shot of me or something where where some where the wife says i my water just broke and the husband says i just made this plate of nachos okay but anyway it just made grilled cheese from honestly can you just hold it in for like ten more minutes how long is this really going to take right we we both know you've got a couple hours i've watched the videos yeah so it was basically dot but instead of nachos he was on his computer he was like obsessed with gadgets and technology unlike hoarded them all for himself in would like he was always on a computer and they could not convince them to come he just wouldn't get off the computer so susan and her dad went alone to the hospital eventually josh showed up an hour and a half later he sat next to the window about twenty feet away from the bed just sat there on his laptop until chuck was like you motherfucker get over here your wife and my daughter are having a baby and it is your baby right she's terrified and you need is about to go through the most like realistically statistically the most pain of her life and alone like don't do i use a human out of her for the first time in like you're just sitting there on your computer you don't give it you're finding a gadget that alleviates labor pay unless you're ordering more painkillers on the internet unless you're finding a machine that just takes the baby out without pain zap get out of here unfortunately after the baby was born and then their second brayden two years later things just got worse so josh became outright abusive no hiding anymore he would give susan ten dollars a week to buy groceries along with a list of the only thing she was allowed to purchase he had trouble holding down a job so susan was responsible for making ends meet and her paycheck was the only steady paycheck coming in but then he controlled all the money so she wasn't allowed to use it he controlled the kids food he would only let them eat one time a day hey the kids actually one of the sons was actually diagnosed as malnourished because john to let them eat and they were little to inform and he i would refuse to feed them because he would say you're just gonna poop it up and it's like what are you gonna do with all yeah so he he gets the whole time right oh yeah he has he actually had his own pantry that were locked just for him his own food two year old wasn't allowed to eat food so susan actually was known to call her friends and ask them to sneak hotdogs eggs over like raw hotdogs just so the kids can eat something it's really really bad so yeah he had his own pantry full snacks he refused to buy christmas presents for the kids and anytime susan tried to use the ATM card he would change the pin number so know what she would do is every time she got her paycheck she would just squirrel away a little money so that she could at the end of the year by christmas gift for the kids meanwhile he was spending thousands of dollars on his computer equipment and other odds and ends like tools he loved like power tools and things and he would collect these like really high end items and just have them in the house for example one day he bought three thousand pounds of wheat for no apparent reason and there's a video susan walking around and filming everything she's like i don't know josh bell this wheat like what are we going to do with all this wheat bread beyond eat it because we're not allowed we can't and like it's just buckets of like what are you going to do it was just so strange and like he would do that and then meanwhile be like but you can't have a piece of bread it just really controlling terrible and also it's like not even a gadget it's like not even right but he's like he's only buying it to prove that he can ryan she can't where even bye bye weeks like a farm i'm gonna godal by it i guess we live in LA we don't know these things so anyway fast forward to monday morning december seventh of two thousand nine charleen brayden are four years old and two years old respectively the owner of their daycare grows concerned when she realizes the boys haven't shown up for daycare and this is really odd because susan was very punctual and she always went to work and on time and so she would always bring them in and if if they weren't coming in if they were sick or something was going on she would always call and make shirts this has never happened before the daycare owner just has this bad feeling she called susan's work no answer she called joshua's job and they tell her he hadn't come into work that type and and so she starts to get nervous she's like neither of them have gone to work none of them are answering their phones the kids aren't here and then she remembers that where my i don't know oh sorry i got overwhelmed with my own story so happened so she stops by their house i there's no answer at the door no footprints in the snow and then she gets nervous because it doesn't look like anyone is coming out so she thinks oh my god i remember like we adjust they had just been talking about installing a new gas heater she's like maybe it's carbon monoxide so she gets really nervous that like maybe it was installed wrong and maybe they were inside and maybe you know gas had been left on so she calls the police and they break a window to get in when they find no one in the house nothing is disturbed or out of place except that the family car wasn't in the garage which is strange 'cause there were tracks so they realize susan's purse is still in the house with her wallet in her keys and her friends and family she would never have just left without those things right it's just not normal they also find find a mysterious key hidden in her purse police notice that the couch had recently been washed to a point where two large box fans are blowing onto the couch couch the carpet to dry them sorry like really washed like freshly walk like we're still wet yeah look exactly so there were these giant box fans like drying attempting to dry the couch in the carpet with the only other odd thing going on so police issue a bolo for the pows minivan and they spend all day looking for them finally around seven pm josh's fucking pulls up to the house and everyone's like thank god like they're here except josh boys are in the car but but susan is nowhere to be found police are like where the hell have you been and he says oh around midnight last night i decided just to take the boys camping i just woke them up and was like we're going camping thing i don't believe you don't i'm gonna i'm gonna just jump in now with my opinion on december seventh in salt lake you're not going camping midnight on a sunday i i'm gonna i'm gonna put my chips on that one yeah now all right if you're in you're in axes no no taking axes axes there was a snowstorm coming in so police were like why would you leave knowing there's a snowstorm in the middle of the night to go camping when you work in school the next day and josh said oh we do this all the time and by by the way the boys really likes moore's okay PS here's more validation her my story PS that they're allowed them ever PS they've literally never had sugar because they don't have food i feed them wheat sometime they love watching meets moore's so sad the so then they're like well we're susan and he's like oh she's at work and they're like she's not at work but he's like i think she's at work these she's not work because we're here for a reason because we find there's a point where is she you don't seem concern so take him to the station to interview him they ask why on earth would you take two kids out in subfreezing temperatures on a sunday night he says oh i forgot it was sunday i thought it was saturday and throttle this he's like super for nonchalant he's like can i go home now he doesn't seem to care that his wife is just missing didn't show up for work so they bring him in the next day without the kids for a formal interview and he's just as nonchalant salon either stares blankly or robotically repeats the same lines over and over you can watch this video footage online he's just like a never ending talker and a note also the fact that he's just silence is very odd like his friendly no he just fucking never stops talking he blabs constantly he knows everything in this case he's just silent and so they're like something is going in on here like if this is shady as hell and all of a sudden he gets really upset really upset like just worked up and it's not because his wife is missing it's because because police had broken a window to get into his house and he's like why would they break my window and they're like we were looking for your missing wife and he's like but you didn't have to break my window like he's just very upset about this broken window and they're like that's the most emotion you've shown all day is that we broke a window at your house yeah okay so police are like like listen that's shouldn't be the concern even a little bit and little does josh no at this point that another detective is simultaneously interviewing his children children separately i see when the detective asked for your old charlie this chilling also you watch it on video footage who are you camping with he says my dad outta my brother and my mom when she has okay charlie when you came home from camping who came home with you he says my dad and truly says and she says what what about your mom and charlie says my mom stayed where the crystals are good night he said because it's so pretty where the crystals grow good night goose kim of course when josh hears this he's like their kids i don't know what they're what the hell they're talking about they're lying he louis called them liars actually but detectives are now like fuck we're on high alert they obviously at this point of nothing to hold josh they have to let them go they can miss the whole area where he had supposedly gone camping but there had been no are there have been fresh snowfalls there were no the footprints they really couldn't find much they did find like i think he was like a sheep herder who said he had seen shepherd yes which actually is what my last name means well actually actually it's more like what schaeffer means my name slate but i just go with shepherd it's more interesting fine whatever you want whatever the nobody wants but yeah so he said like oh i saw sheepherder and the sheep they found the guy was like yeah i did see them in their minivan van so they think like this is just a weird way of him like covering his tracks like he really was out there because this guy was like no i saw their minivan so oh no tracks configure anything out josh is at this point named a person of interest and he moves out in the middle of the night to washington okay just like goodbye and they're like that's not good bad bad bad call their bad side bad sign meanwhile susan's family is trying to spread the word any way they can which is just pissing josh off if he finally speaks out but what he says shocking he says susan was extremely emotionally abused as a child he insults her parents he makes susan sound promiscuous rebellious rebellious problematic he basically says he wants to take her off the pedestal everyone thinks she's on but also didn't she have a great upbringing and he had the upper yes okay but like also so it's like your wife is this is not the way a normal person reacts this is not how we describe our wife when she's missing correct even if you really believe that like it still doesn't doesn't make sense this isn't the right exactly exactly then this fucking shit had dad steve gets involved josh's dad the two of them make a website about about susan's disappearance josh love to make websites with a sounds right with all of this gadget and they were like really crappy like they weren't like well done but he called himself a webmaster that and he had one at one point i remember it's called like it was called like four the kids with tuesay's and he made it always crazy easy four four four hey i was like eleven this guy is too old for this crap so they make up this website website and this is the theory that they post on this website they say so this guy steven kosher had also disappeared from salt lake city around the same time so they invented this theory that she was having an affair with the sky stephen kosher and they ran away together but everyone's like they have never met there is no connection between them there's no evidence of a not even a little bit like what does this have to do with this guy with her but so that was the theory they had kind of just concocted is that she they ran away to mexico and we're having having an affair because they both disappeared around the same time wasn't true spoiler alert drop it so susan's family and friends are just fucking pissed at this point they're like we're trying to find her and you're on the internet posting like fake stories about how she's having an affair and we're just trying to find her alive hopefully so in february two thousand ten the cox family which susan's family hold a press conference they break the news that at this point they're like we have to say something they break the news as susan had been a victim of abuse at the hands ends of josh they divulge all the information i mentioned earlier about controlling the money and not letting the kids eat and also revealed that the abuse had gotten physical a few times in that she was scared of him obviously josh's not thrilled about this new update tips at this point rolling in though one man calls police and says that at christmas party party in two thousand eight josh had told him that he had figured out the best way to hide a dead body to be does sound like one of our conversations right but also like when you're in the middle of an investigation where your wife is missing that's probably again not the time to talk about that he's really better reading rooms this was before like a year before the guy just says oh i remember one time at christmas party just like what a convenient thing to remember and also what a comedian thing it suggests premeditation yeah it's it's just not a good look at the very least deleted that i tried to hide my tracks any early on thoughts of this too yeah uh-huh suspicious mostly like the most subtle guy in the world doesn't sound like put it that way but he and susan actually loved true crime shows they loved investigation discovery they loved other shows but so what josh would do all the time say killers are such idiots they always mess up like i know how i know how to do like you would always say i know better i know better and like i'm which i'm sure i'm sure every killer has said i think a lot of people think that way they're like oh nydia me little prints at the crime literally thought he was smarter than all them in your reporting about him right now so oh clearly you're not smarter than them well we'll see oh god okay so we want him to be riding anyway so well we'll see so in two thousand eight he had been blabbing on about how he knew exactly how to hide a dead body and it was to throw it down vertical mineshaft he said no one would ever find it there's so many mineshafts out in the utah landscape gape like no one will find it police take this very seriously because he was camping out right yeah so they're like we're going to start searching but as mining country there are tens of thousands of mines out in the desert like some of them thousands of feet deep and also they're very dangerous like the ones that are closed off our claw for a reason like you're not supposed to go in there they're extremely dangerous so it's very hard to to search there was one mind though called the ironsides mind that police were able to search because someone had poured gasoline down there and the fumes were so strong that searchers couldn't enter so that was kind of an odd an odd update one reason they took the lead so seriously is that the minds in the area tended to grow crystals oh i see after logging more than six thousand man hours police finally stopped their search person hours oh man hours hours just hours they're labor our labor hours police have to stop their search empty-handed they're like there's only so much we can do six thousand hours of searching minds you know it's where you're going to go from there so two years later they still have nothing josh they're frustrated so they turn to the only other person who's involved and who they think might have some information and that's josh's dad steve they're like he might be our way in since josh just will not give up anything so the powells and caucuses at this point are unlike full out war with each other josh had filed a restraining order against susan's dad chuck and the cops are like we have this idea chuck doc so susan's at why don't you organize a public event in an attempt to spread awareness about susan the event would take place so police like kind of follow josh figured out what grocery store he frequented than had chuck's up the the lake march or like the it was like a honking wave where like they're like helpline season is an people like honk and just to draw awareness so they had him organizes in front of the grocery store which wants to my gosh was like i didn't even know i know that's what they were doing i thought they were just telling me to hold this god honor sudanese then later i was like oh they did it on okay so they wanted josh to show up on camera because there are news crews and to get so upset that he said something incriminating kind of smart yeah they're like trapping him into this situ emotional experience yeah knowing where he would get knowing he would get pissed so of course steve does show up news cameras are rolling steve starts screaming that chuck is violating a restraining order are he brought a copy of it with him also because they're out of shopping center that josh visits so this is a rally two ways a rally to raise awareness awareness about susan and josh showing up like you can't do this is a restraining order violation i'm talking about my daughter this is not about you this is like okay anything you did and joshua fuck you you can't do this in my air in my neighborhood you need to shut this down and then steve steve the dad goes oh do you to chuck susan's father who's missing his daughter he goes do you really think this is going to do anything and chuck and meanwhile you watch his chuck wearing shirt with his daughter's face on it this is like help find susan susan and i'm like do you really think this is going to do anything that's so terrible terrible so then steve does a really dumb thing just like they had hoped so this is a student's father-in-law josh's dad this idiot says well we have susan's journal and they confirm everything about how terrible of father you're so police are like oh you have her journals interesting like putty in my hands correct media he's such an idiot so they were like well interesting maybe we should know about this so they have their way in they literally like the cold podcast plays all the entire like the interviews and they're so the police are so good at being like oh but like tell us more about how much susan meant to you you know like just really playing him so just falls for it he just wants to talk about her he wants to talk about just falls short every time time so finally they're like i mean we can look around right like we can check out your house like just to make sure i mean we know you have nothing to do with like we can check it out and he's like oh of course yeah totally so they come over and we're gonna find these journals so they have their win they obtain a search warrant and here we go this gets a little wild not only do they find susan's journals which he clearly has like she and joshua stolen and have kept it at sears house steve they also find steve's journals else and in these journals it's tens of thousands of pages that he's written he writes everything down like obsessively wow and they find quite some disturbing information okay he reveals that he is madly in love desperately sexually in love with his daughter in law susan he wrote about wanting to share her with josh and and that was his right to do so his right yes it was right goodbye the next day he wrote about sniffing hair from her hairbrush absolutely not collected quote what i've written this is from his journal what i've written about susan represents the first time i've mentioned fetishes and what might be considered sociopathic i mean who looks under the the bathroom door with a mirror i tend to think a lot of guys do you move glimpse into what the fuck this guy was doing this whole time got it he said remember they lived with with his dad when they were having money troubles when they first got married they lived here and susan's friends later said that's why they moved that's why they left because she couldn't be around her father in law anymore he was so creepy going to say did she like him back but hell no oh he thought she did he kept writing like john resist the LDS church has brainwashed brainwashed she's resisting her sexual for me and it's like okay she's nineteen like you are fucking discussed creep and like he has photos from the wedding where he's like zoomed in watching in her and writing like she just wants me she doesn't want josh it's beyond he actually there's actually a recording in the cold i didn't know about where he admits he's like i'm in love with view and they're driving she's driving in he's recording this and he has a camera they filmed everything it was really weird so he goes i'm in love with you and she's like twenty one he's fifty four and and she's just like steve i can't do this i don't know what you're trying to do i can't do this and he's like well i thought you've given me so many signs and she's made by like i don't know what you think you felt like i wasn't trying to give you an i'm sorry if i misled you and he's like you gave me so many signs and the sign when police were like oh we'll like did she ever do anything like to give you the idea she was interested and he said yeah so she had wacked she was learning to like wax her own way like do waxing and she also cut hair and stuff like that so she was practicing waxing and she had done on her own legs and she's like oh my god i feel like there's like no hair bat and so he's like fine she wanted me to touch touch her legs all over and it's like fuck off and then oh there's one point where he literally says he said no she said she didn't say no she said i'm not interested but that's not that doesn't that's not know and it's like what the f. this guy is so perverted if it's not a yes it's a no exactly it's not a chance it's not a resounding if you don't know that and that is not information you're privy to chanted until you get it yeah yeah not yes equals so essentially exactly so anyway that's just some a little tangent but so da her her hairbrush he's like i smell her hair i mean it's just so many things i can't even remember at this point along with the journals in his closet investigators find a collection of susan's tanis that he would steal also you know in in the LDS church they wear these undergarments that are considered sacred and it's part of like okay what you wear and he stole those out of her laundry and it's like those different sacred and their religion community yeah religiously sacred and he he would steal them out of her laundry yet which just beyond he took a tampons use cotton balls use tampons yes goodbye nail clippings then he would put them in ziplock bags with the date yup oh my god imagine hoping that closet oh my god what did he think was going to happen when they came out and he's like you can come check out my house i wish i could go from a cop to cop to cop and be like what's the weirdest thing you've ever seen even the most you know tragic or horrific thing just the weirdest thing you've seen toenail clippings opens with dates pretty fucking weird you use tampons with dates on it and that's that is dark really dark really they also discovered that steve fancied himself a songwriter wait wait for it i know you i know you want me to do it now but put you put on your hand and let me lead up up to it stop touching me hands off your arm ruling means no sorry shouldn't linger he wrote some love songs about susan the documentary actually played a recording of steve singing the songs the documentary watch but also the podcast podcast it's so fucking sinister this like this music one of the songs is called susan with the sunlight hair and actually it used to be called i forget her name like pam or pay or something with the sunlight hair he wrote it about a different woman go with also married and not interested in him and then he changed the words to susan later on so he's reused the song i'm from previous rejected love affair say correct and hear the lyrics we gotta enter we gotta lace ooh that's not how we hold hands it that's better wait how do we how would we hold hands that's okay i hate it hate it just sing asked make some room within you know the tune either i know i know i i know the chorus or could just do it for the moment i begin to smell the perfume in your hair and caress you everywhere i missing unusual then it goes i can love you in a secret way i can love you each and every day there's nothing i can't see there's nothing you can't be it's not perfect but i'm missing you i would like the next three therapy sessions pay for expense it i don't actually know i literally i know i can love you in see i don't know what the fuck the other tunes are so i i want i i want everyone to know that if you were not at the live show i was not prepared no i wasn't either i wasn't going to do it but it was the second show after an i china and also you've looked me in the eyes the whole time and you said it a lot slower especially the part about somehow us being in each other it was very what's the it's because i hate it ooh republicanism room for me within you i hate that that was that was your leading line to i was only going to get worse vomiting it's terrible so thank you i thank you can do whatever your heart feels which is probably throw up and run away okay i really hate that i did this audio because i did it live and i was like well no one will ever have to hear it again now why did i also so i had to tone deaf person on the planet i singing a really horrific song you sing it well i wish i knew i only heard the chorus man i think that's enough i think it's enough i don't think we're okay i think saying oh shucks before that is not needed to bad okay let's move on uh please it doesn't stop there oh never mind so he is deeply sexually obsessed with his daughter-in-law they find thousands of images images and videos of susan he followed her all over town while she ran errands and in his journals he would like right accompanying everyday that he did this he would write any would say she knew watching and she liked it she did it by the way like he would literally on curve so delusional that he would think he would write like oh she loves she knows i'm like following her i saw the way she like twisted her skirt or like flip i like she knows i'm watching it i mean it is so beyond around like upsetting deeply darkly upsetting so he is right so he filmed her while she ran errands he would take videos of her across the room when she she didn't know he was filming into this obviously quickly why she was like we need to move out of here he even had pictures of her face that he would superimpose on bodies of other women like the collage like and he was also physical with her so when she was in the kitchen he would often come up and put his hands up her skirt or try to brush up against her she imagined having and live with that i know i just can't because especially if it's so dark and sinister that you're like you can't escape it at any point and there's no i wonder how i mean i know she clearly new that he was interested in her but i wonder if she knew about like the the stuff and i think it was that bad i don't think she knew the image of just rolled into like you were like dropping off like laundry or like a book or something put it in his room and fucking found sound like your own tampons god i know i don't think she knew it was not extent she just was like listen he said like he's clearly it cross too many lines and i think he had enough sense to like journal about it rather than like say hey i have your toenail clippings like i think he kept that to see knew some things are best kept alone on your show up here you go right yeah so she had revealed to her friends that that was the reason that they had left washington and moved to utah the brought josh i was kind of upset when he found out but then he brushed it off and was like it's my dad it's not a big deal oil and it gets worse so i'm sorry what's not cross over that so so he's saying oh it's okay that my dad's touching on you like it's it's not it's not as bad as it could be a stranger touching up on you it's someone that's not your husband yet touching up on you and also nine when you know that you said no i don't want this touching you whether it's your relative or yeah regardless of your relationship at someone who first of all you're married to so you think you'd hair a little bit yeah some someone that you're married to who's saying they're not interested they're not also if this is like a like a more traditional style title of marriage like you're you're probably monogamous like you probably wouldn't want your wife to be with them yeah i i just think if your wife for so many reasons you should it doesn't yet great like it's obvious but like if you're a partner says i'm uncomfortable with this man touching me by the way it's your daddy you think you'd be like their only additional layers of disgust here but but that obviously like just goes to show how fucked up their whole relationship was like john was raised by this guy and so you know i mean he and he was already to be fair he was already abusing abusing her so he probably thought this is just one more thing to the docket and he did get really upset she said like furious and they didn't talk to him for months and then eventually he was like like you know like we just gotta move on because he just couldn't live without his dad i think he created his own excuses in his head like he's done with it now don't worry like won't it's in the past ask your trump saying yeah like we just have to move on and she was like no so it gets worse i know it can't seem like it does but it gets so much worse steve had also also been taking photos and videos of two little girls who live next door fuck yeah through the windows of them it's spreading when they were on the toilet or taking baths they were very much underage i think there was twelve was younger this obviously a felony so on september twenty second police arrested steve for child pornography geography and voyeurism he's sense to thirty months in jail i also wanna add another thing i learned from the other podcast is that like he had videos of himself masturbating video secret videos he had taken of susan so it just he would literally film himself he got off to himself off getting off on the correct yes that's it's just a lot of layers of problems meta in the worst way so finally the so he has child pornography free charge he goes to jail finally the cox family has ammunition to be like we want our grandkids back i mean think about this also there's two little children here the whole time like in the middle of right this nightmare without without their mom so the the cox families finally like we want our grandkids we want custody so they did get a temporary custody order to have them live with them damn instead of stephen josh but josh fucking hated this like he was he just hated that the cox family was like taking the kids taking control it wasn't even even about the kids it was just like the day kind of one over him in like that it was a control thing i think but it tries a my even though she he was in prison and jail now they could get him to admit anything about knowing where susan was so eventually they were i honestly he believed she was still alive and that she was going to come back and they would get married like he in his journals so like he was very delusional and i think finally they realized like he legitimately doesn't know what happened he really truly wants her to come back and marry him and he's not delusional he really wow so the grandpa the data's just they're like he's not going to help us very much back in utah susan's employer tells those police hey just you know susan had a safe deposit box here that no one else knew about then they're like how do we get in oh yeah remember that tiny a little key we found in her purse that nobody knew it was too so that key went to the safety deposit box when they opened it they discovered video footage it was like like a VHS tape it was video footage i don't know if it's VHS tape and may have been digital at this point doesn't matter video footage susan had taken on july twenty ninth two thousand eight she she talked to a divorce attorney who told her to take video of all the assets in the house joschka smart hide them or anything in the video she says i'm covering all my bases you can watch this video to she's kind of like the camcorder got it she says i'm covering all my bases making sure that if something happens to me or my family all of us that are assets are documented hope everything works out and we're all happy and live happily ever after as much as possible and then the video ends it's just very eerie because like she knew something was up e presume yeah or she just was like oh hoping for the best and it's like okay unfortunately susan's attorney then instructed her to hide the tape somewhere somewhere nobody would ever or have access to it especially josh but she did end up confronting josh and saying listen if here's a just lost my words like a condition unlike if you don't shape up by our anniversary tomato ultimatum thank you she gave him an ultimatum she says if our marriage isn't working by april i'm out of here and so at this point detectives are like kind of building a case against josh they're like okay it seems like he's involved especially after they i found a letter in the safety deposit box with folded up and stapled shut and on top of it was written on top of it was written susan's last will and testament and then on the other side of the stapled letter it says do not show this to josh or give this to josh i do not trust him the will testament said if anything happens to me it may not be an accident accident even if it looks like one oh shit yes so she like you said knew something was at around this time a guy at a salvage yard in colorado gets a call from a man who he gets his call and this i need a satellite image of the salvage yard where and they're like why i had my car towed there a long time ago i just i wanna make sure the car has been destroyed can use in me a satellite image of the of the salvage yard interesting and they're like what's your name and he's like michael powell al and that is josh's brother so this guy is watching the news and he's like weird that's the same name like the guy who called and was super sketchy about getting salvage yard so the guy calls police he's like hey i recognize this name from your case it turns out right when soon disappeared michael joshua's brother had sold old car for scrap the car was like in great condition like pretty new race sold it for two hundred bucks and paid to have it destroyed this doesn't make any sense unless there is some involvement they thought cadaver dogs were sent to look at the car and they immediately alerted to the trunk indicating that there was d. comp in the trunk um but they didn't find anything however i will note that later on when brandon was in kindergarten i think he was in kindergarten he drew during craft time he drew a picture of all of them on a road trip and then there was a person in the trunk and they said who's that and he said mommy good night yet no he also told his daycare instructor or teacher i'm not sure which mommy's missing but we're not allowed to talk about that or camping thing i have a lot of secrets okay this kid is i bet you do these poor children i mean so disturbed at this point like magin i mean especially if your parents ashley also if you're young enough and it's dark enough like you'll just repress it totally and eventually you're not going to be able to remember those secrets i hope he pulled someone before he forgot yeah yeah so unfortunately so they tested the car they confront seasons DNA just like another really frustrating false lead meanwhile considering josh's control issues he is losing his mind that he hasn't had the kids yeah losing his mind that the caucuses have the kids the grandparents are trying everything in their power to give the kids a normal life to prevent prevent josh from getting the kids back kids were really disturbed at this point chuck says that they every time they went to bed they insisted on going to be in the same bed naked and he's like wine he's like well daddy doesn't let us where close oh no i didn't like to sleep he sleeps in between us in bed with no the whole thing's just like oh no we were trying to give them some normalcy because they were not norm like they were not being raised in a normal household right so at this point john chuck we cannot let them go back to josh so he's like we're going to go through joshua's parents divorce paperwork and find anything we can to like build a case that we went custody of the kids because like even though josh is like kuku it's really hard to get custody from like an actual parents or so on so they go through the divorce paperwork and what they find is shocking so on top of all the abusive situations i described earlier about joshua's childhood like the ice baths the pornography they discover that stephen also encouraged the boys to kick and and beat their mother okay once she asked josh to show her more respect and he'd responded by saying you have to earn respect mom what have you done to earn my respond oh my my goodness all documented in the divorce paperwork because she's like my children are abusing me my husbands abusing me like it's just wow started from a young age josh also killed his sister's gerbil at one point he attempted to take his own life by hanging just very troubled childhood susan's friends remembered susan telling them sorry susan's friends remembered susan telling them that once josh had threatened that if she ever left him that he would do to her what his dad did to his mom as as in like peter destroy her basically you know i mean get the kids get like just destroy got beat her to i'm sure and so this is obviously more motive so the custody hearing took place and josh argues his side but then the state prevents an argument present argument challenging josh's fitnesses apparent this is what it is it is incestuous child pornography but animated on his hard drive so they had gone an encrypted decrypted hard drives and they found animated porn that was incestuous in this was enough to bring up as a red flag to be like now p can't go home with them with him they've named the home with him and i will say like it's much more complicated than that and like the legal system was all involved in the layers of getting that to court so it's a lot more than that but essentially that's what ended up happening is they found this you know pornography and they were like he's not fit as a parent if he's has incestuous pornography so he was allowed however supervised visitation rights with the kids and actually he was told he had to take a psycho sexual evaluation like he was and this really fucked him up because he's like like i'm evaluated i'm fine like giving my kids in there like not only do you knock at your kids now we have to psycho sexually evaluate you because you're that fucked up and so oh he is obviously pissed but he does get supervised visitation rights for the meantime only with a social worker present he's humiliated he's pissed off but he takes advantage of the supervised visits in on february fifth twenty twelve charlie and brains grandparents have no choice but to let them go see their dad so the social worker takes the the kids joshua's house he's waiting outside and the kids run up to to see him the social worker falling behind and when the boys get inside josh takes one look at the social worker smiles at her and then shuts the door it oh shit the social worker panics she hears through the door charlie i have a surprise for you and then she begins to hear brayden crying and as the door shuts she also gets a whiff of gasoline fuck so she immediately calls nine one one but the dispatcher does not seem to be very concerned she tells the dispatcher she smells gasoline she tells him he's she's moving her car the driveway because she's like there's gasoline i don't know what's going on and and he keeps being like sorry is this your kid and she's like no i'm the social worker i'm here to be to investors first day he just was very much like nonchalant nonchalant like he later chill way to joe he later said he thought it was the mother and it was like but she kept saying i'm the social worker he's not supposed to have the kids and she's like his name's josh powell and i guess a dispatcher didn't recognize the name and it just was like very bad like he just didn't dispatch police at one point the call dropped and then she called again and he kept saying what's the address she's like i don't know i think it's this and he's like well is it or is it not in oh my gosh like really frustrating to listen into so eventually and she's like so patient on the phone i would be losing my mind i know he literally says okay i'll just i'll just tell the story from what i wrote so i don't mess it up so she says i'm moving my car the driveway finally after several minutes i think is like eight minutes later the dispatcher agrees to send police she s how long it'll be in he says i don't know ma'am they have to respond to emergency life threatening situations first and she yells this is life threat or she says this may be life threatening i'm afraid for their lives and then the call all just ends and moments later the house explodes okay finally it takes a long time i think twenty two minutes after the call well first responders arrive at the my god the fire at this point is too strong and take several hours until they can get into the house the house was fully turned to ashley completely annihilated chuck russia's over the grandpa and tell us one of the firefighters i'm the grandfather and the man says hold on a minute and goes to talk to someone he returns moments later says they're gone so charlie and braden had both died of smoke inhalation but they had hatchet marks on their skulls so what happening is josh had knocked both boys unconscious with an axe to the back of their heads then spread gasoline all through the house and over them and then he sat on a five gallon can of gasoline and lit uh the guests and the house exploded and the boys were found holding hands twenty minutes before setting the fire josh left a voicemail for his family for one of his sisters the voicemail said hey this is josh and i'm calling to say goodbye i am not able to live without my sons and i'm not able to go on anymore i'm sorry to everyone i've hurt goodbye so please turn to the only one they can think of who's left is josh's brother michael the one who had dropped the car off at the salvage yard right but before they can interview him on february eleven two thousand thirteen michael powell jumped off a seven story parking garage to his death wow so within a year finishing finishing his prison sentence steve steve powell died of a heart attack so all three of them took any answers they had to their graves wile when police examined steve's journals after his death they discovered an entry dated one day after susan's disappearance that read i feel like josh did a truly stupid thing and probably disposed of her body in a truly grotesque way i think he probably went to some former for industrial land just west of west valley no sorry west valley city and cremated her joshes life with susan was utterly miserable evidently this tragedy is my answer for why josh hung on he wanted to do it his way and avoid a messy costly divorce okay his way is better i'm sure right susan powell at this point is still missing but is presumed dead by the west valley city police her cause of death is obviously unknown but many theorized josh killed her and had been planning to for a while i think we can all understand why people presume that police consider the case open and they continue to follow any promising leads in two thousand ten susan's family and friends created the susan cox powell foundation i'm amazed as they kept the powell in there i would have been right fuck that susan cox powell foundation whose mission is to assist families of missing persons to support domestic violence prevention efforts with a special social emphasis on recognizing the early signs of abuse because there are so many times where it seemed like little things but it it ended up in the big picture being much more than it seemed the actually interesting thing i learned from that cole podcast to since i've done this the first time is that the nine one one dispatcher david lovric he was like reprimanded obviously for the way he handled the call ray was like extremely troubled by as you can imagine right and he now works as a speaker who trains nine one one operators oh isn't that interesting yeah like the proper response in that kind of thing and what signs to look for well so susan stab chuck has not been pope he still hopes to find susan's body he doesn't believe if she's alive but he believes that someday they might find her he believes i'm more information may lie in joshes encrypted hard drives which still have not been cracked by police and it sounds like pretty basic but like listening to how they've done it they spent i mean ten because he encrypted them with these insane like computers can't crack them like they had computers running in writing trying every nation and they can't they can't crack the code so they tried they haven't been able to do it yet he's actually lobbied major tech companies in an effort to help investigators instigators gain access to the drives and that's something i think they're still working on at least they were when i did this early in september so i also think the fact that he went to such lengths to encrypt all of these hard drives right there i'm going to be something pretty awful if you really wanted to be just so secret so secret and he actually saved everything he saved every every single receipt every single piece of paper like everything was scanned and saved hundreds of hard drives like he saved every little scrap of their lives so hopefully at least in in that way there's something that they can maybe so if you just want to add if you or anyone you know is experiencing domestic abuse of any kind even if you're not totally sure in the US you can contact the national domestic violence hotline at one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three or visit the hotline dot org where they have an anonymous cia available twenty four seven seven three sixty five and that is terribly tragic tale of the disappearance of susan powell and then people paused sort of i don't think we wanna plus well and our manager was like wow what have i gotten myself into oh no i was one of the i was the first night that he ever came to one of our shows and it was like i thought what i signed up for a combination of those second time ever met us and we were like welcome hello although it was like the second time we ever met and thanks for listening do that yeah sorry and that was going on but no i've been waiting to cover that for like years and then when salt lake came up i was like i'll do it there and then i wanted to wait longer to like retell tell it so you forgot i did everything but the singing which is apparently been hired could someone forget that burned your mind well i think we all need an emotional national grilled cheese oh god that sounds good if any of that was pleasant for you please come get tickets to our live show we are definitely not doing stories like this anymore maybe we are format is very different but if you'd like to see us live i don't know why but please come do it we will be there we you'd like you'd be there and then there i've been telling christine every single time we sign off i'll say and hoping USA why she says we say drink and you would think that'd be where we close off christine's always gotta have the final say don't do it on purpose for the last thirty episodes and that's why we drank in the kristen goes brew it needs a punctuation point so we're going to do it in reverse this time and i'll probably also i'm just like i feel like an asshole i need the final word i guess but it's it's that like how chris christie also has to lean over and turn off the recording and there's that weird second in the middle so i think it's your you're feeling again 'cause i'm too anxious let us sit in silence for that like four seconds okay i'll say drink and as i say drink you turn it sir and that's why we jury too and that's why we drink still took two

adams oliver christine thirty percent three months ten dollars ten percent twelve foot one day one thousand nine hundred seve eighteen seventy eight ten yea one one hundred fifty years one hundred fifty years twenty seven dollars one hundred percent two hundred dollars six billion pounds forty eight hours one hundred years twenty four hours
Pang Warehouse Fire

Scene Of the Crime

1:00:14 hr | Last month

Pang Warehouse Fire

"When he was young. Martin Pang played playboy. He wined and dined his paramore's on his parents dime, of course. But underneath the GLITZ and glamour there was a dark side to Martin's brand of charisma. Who knows when that evil seed began to grow inside this very lucky boy who was rescued from an orphanage I can a fairytale his adoptive parents made his every wish come true. But that, love. That attention. That Martin can do no wrong devotion just wasn't. It would never be enough as Martin matured into adulthood. He collected a fat paycheck from the family business without doing work. But the anger deep into no doubt stoked by feelings of entitlement and greed. Fertile ground for that rage to blossom into violence. These are bad dude. All of his ex wives of which at that time you had four really really afraid it's By the Nineteen Nine, hundred, ninety s Martin had racked up a couple of failed businesses under his belt ten at the time his acting career hadn't panned out by one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, four, he was desperate. What was narcissistic spoiled rich kid bending toward middle aged to do the constant supply of little red envelopes hundreds. It turns out over the years that his devoted mother would fill with folded up wads of cash. Envelopes, began to dry up. The once successful family business that had fueled Martin's exploits for decades had fallen on hard times. Who knows when the idea hit him Martin's great plan at Redemption but one thing is for sure it involved leaning into the nickname he earned in high school pyro paying. For his reputation of threatening to torch the property of his perceived enemies. But. How is it that paying turned this I R- toward his parents who had only ever showered him with anything and everything fancy clothes fast cars, elaborate trips vote an airplane rentals his whole life. He'd been a taker and so like that famous childhood book, The giving tree, his parents warehouse could give their golden boy one. Final sacrifice. itself. All it would take was one match by torching it. The insurance money would restore Martin to the lifestyle he was accustomed to what Martin hadn't planned for is that, for Seattle, firefighters would pay the ultimate price battling the blaze that he started. Tunnel Walter de Kilgore. A Gary a shoemaker. Firefighter Randy arm Firefighter. James T Brown. And to add insult to injury, Martin wasn't done gaming the system. I'm Karen Soria with Kim Shepard and this is the scene of the crime. This is such a tough case caroline because of the innocent lives that were lost and these were heroes. These were men who just wanted to go in and save life and property. Do things for others and lost their life in the process. It's it's a tragedy that has stuck with the city of Seattle I'm sure we'll see in this episode for decades and and will for decades to come, and before we get into the details of this case, I wanted to update everybody on another case where some innocent lives were lost, and we are finally finally starting to see a little bit of justice for Charlie and. Braden Powell. Now you might remember these are the sons of Susan. Cox. Powell she is the the mother who went missing. We did an episode on Su. We did a two parter martyr and she is missing presumed dead at the hands of her now dead husband Josh Powell but their sons Charlie and Brayden were actually on a visitation with Josh Powell when he blew up their home leading to the deaths of actually murdered the boys then blew. It just a murderer side, tragic murder suicide terrible, and and the hardest part of this is that the boys were supposed to be in the care of the state and so Charlie and Britain's grandparents had filed a lawsuit against the state of Washington claiming that they didn't do enough to protect those boys they had enough information. Those boys never should have been in Josh Powell's home in the first place and we just discovered last week that a judge has awarded the Cox Family Ninety eight million dollars for the miss handling of Charlie and Brandon's case led to their deaths and what's really You know looking back we. Had the opportunity to interview and Bremner the Seattle Attorney. The amazing Seattle attorney who was helping them with their case when the quarantine just started. So they had put that trial on hold because all of a sudden we're in a pandemic and so she really talked about the case. So we really recommend you going back. The disappearance of Susan Powell is a two part episode goes over the case it we talk with Anne Bremner who gives those details about what it's like. She's very close with the Cox family. Obviously, she's been working with them for a decade now, and since that episode actually had a chance to talk with. Charles Cox who is the grandfather of Charles Brayden and get his take on why he brought this lawsuit what he hopes will come out of the lawsuit and we're GONNA share a little bit more of that in a deepish thought. So I hope you'll look for that as well. But let's get back to this case and find out what happened to the Seattle firefighters and what happened to the man who killed them. Yes. Well, let's start off with backstory and for my sources let me just say they include the. Asian weekly, the Seattle Times King Five News Kiro seven and history link. So this story has to begin with Martin Pangs Parents Mary and Harry Mary Pang was born and raised in Seattle to immigrants who traveled to the West to work on the railroads. She was one of ten children in graduated from Franklin. High School. Harry. Pang was a world war two Air Corps veteran who flew on d day in Normandy and received a distinguished flying cross. So Marianne, Harry met at the University of Washington and married in nineteen, forty, five and they. Opened up a little grocery store on Beacon Hill that's southeast neighborhood in Seattle that is among the most racially diverse in the city. So a decade into their marriage Kim the pangs adopt two children from China son Hang. Wa was born in Hong Kong in nineteen, fifty, five, a very turbulent time in China. He was the fifth child and he was put up for adoption because the family couldn't afford another mouth to feed by adopting Martin the pangs potentially saved him from the great Chinese famine. Now, when I was researching this, it's like I. China has such a deep history and I think that you know I wasn't aware of the fact that there was this great Chinese famine which led to the one child law well, and before that I mean this I, I was shocked but a few years later after Martin was born, there was a combination of radical agricultural changes in regulation imposed by the government social pressure, economic mismanagement, and natural disasters such as drought and floods. But what happened was as a result of all this turmoil thirty, six, million people died of starvation between nineteen, Fifty, eight, and nineteen, sixty two. I early six million people it's hard to fathom it's hard to fathom and Martin got scooped up and was was taken out of that situation. So Martin was six months when he was adopted and the pangs also adopted a two year old girl from a different family both were adopted from the same orphanage and they named the little girl. Marlins. So the painting sold their grocery store and went into business with Mary's sister Ruby Chow who had started a frozen food business I WANNA take a minute to talk about Ruby because she was such a huge influence in Seattle. She was a rising star. Then she had opened Ruby chows in nineteen, forty, eight in Seattle. Now, this was the first Chinese restaurant outside of what was then called. Chinatown is now called. Chinatown. International district and was a popular hotspot with the political and business elite of Seattle and a magnet for celebrities. Ruby was a mover and a shaker she was a waitress. She was like ran. That was host I mean she just did it all she hobnobbed with all of these like elite people got this really great reputation and and her her restaurant just took off and over her career she helped a lot of people including a young Bruce Lee, and here she is talking about how their how their paths crossed Bruce came up here. Came to Shia to see the fair he liked it very much she. Then, he told me he wasn't shy about it. He told me that he wanted to prove his father that he could go to university without him. and. Would I? Let him stay with us and he's a very smart young man very talented one and very handsome gentlemen. And Very Resourceful So Ruby had a lot of irons in the fire. So can I just add? Yeah. Did Bruce Live with her? Yes. He lived with her and he waited tables at the restaurant. So cool. It really isn't. It shows like she was. In that interview, as she's later in life you know she really talks about like she would help people if she could. She just really built bridges in the community and so she was friends with Bruce Lee's parents and so he came to her and said, hey, and she's like, yes. So as I mentioned Ruby had started this frozen food business, the pangs go into it with her. and. They would use her restaurant kitchen during off hours to prepare cook and package the frozen food. By hand you have to remember there was no Chinese frozen food at that time. So this is like a re they started at the the ground floor of his business and it really took off unfortunately the partnership soured. It's not clear what caused the bad blood between the two sisters but Ruby left the frozen food business and unfortunately, the sisters wouldn't speak for thirty years saw. That's sad. That's disappointing I in clearly they were close if they were sharing facilities like that. But but going into business together is is super stressful at especially when you talk about using a the same kitchen as a restaurant during the day and then to create these frozen foods at night I could see. There being a lot of conflict there with how space is used and how things are left every day, and I mean that that can create a lot of conflict well, and if you think that they that they were what both of them came from a family of ten children, you know how that might have affected the other siblings and the the parents you know when you have these familial riffs. People pop probably like how can you not talk to your sibling for thirty years? We had another sibling so. So so anyway, Ruby eventually went into Seattle politics and among her accomplishments, she was considered a major bridge between Seattle's Chinese community and the city at large. She was the first Asian American member of the King County. Council would serve three terms and she was known for her civic activist. But. Let's get back to the pangs in nineteen, sixty three. They moved the frozen food business into a warehouse that was built in nineteen o eight in Chinatown and Mary paying became the face of that business by the nineteen eighties though I mean they had just worked so hard they built this business as I. said from the ground up and revenues were over a million dollars. Now for kicks I looked up how much a million dollars would be worth today. With a nineteen eighty and it would be worth over three point three million dollars a year a year yet so. Well that's a big chunk of change and the pangs move their family to Mercer Island. It's a very affluent island near Seattle. They had an amazing view but a very sad family dynamic seemed to be playing out as the pangs poured their heart and soul into the business working seven days a week. You know. Martin was extremely favored from the moment that that they were adopted and Marlins was harshly disciplined by the parents. Her life was a living hell because Martin he was like a huge bully and for him feeling superior to his victims like marlins she was the perfect target. She was known to be timid unsure of herself and scared of him. So it's like that family dynamic where they're latchkey kids you know their parents are working really hard. He was known to lock her out of the House I mean it was just a really like they had all this affluence but you know like every other family, there's there's some drama going on there. But it seems like it was kind of more than the typical drama and families because it's worth noting that Marles graduated from high school she left home moved to San Francisco and never returned. So I, looked into this a bit deeper and was told that when Marlins left, she walked out the door and went to I five and just hitched a ride with an older couple of California. Wow. Her parents never searched for her. They knew she was in California but had actually written her into their will for one dollar in the hopes that she wouldn't be able to contest it their disdain for her and her memory was. Allegedly Palpable MARLA was a name not mentioned often so sad and not understanding why yeah that's the hardest part it's like what it all my research wasn't that that was as as much as I could get about what happened there but apparently Martin could do no wrong and she was shy and I I mean I can't I can't explain it but that's what I've got so far but. All that was fined by Martin when he did speak of Marlins, he would say unpleasant mean-spirited and aggressive things like she didn't deserve any of the family's wealth. It's obvious that the only thing that marvelous was to Martin was a threat to his parents wealth. So from spoiled brat to entitled Teen Martin Loved, Fast Cars, speedboats, and travel. He wasn't into getting good grades and as a teen, he was known to have anger issues in acted recklessly. His peers later give him the nickname pyro Pang for threatening to burn the homes and businesses of people who wronged him. Yet. So I was looking up pyro mania because I knew this case I was GonNa see his fits about yeah about somebody setting a fire like this and and also I could sort of relate when I was in high school I kind of the one who has always tapped to start the bonfire and things like that because they were just kind of good. At it and I enjoyed it not to say that I was in any way pyromaniac but I can understand the fascination and the enjoyment of what is you enjoy because I enjoy being able to accomplish the task of setting a fire like I feel really good about like, okay. Guys. Watch me build the spire. I've watched enough seasons of episodes of survivor to be like. What. But I feel like with you as you're describing you're. Getting a little bit more. It's usually a challenge of like how big of a fire can you create and that was the fun for me was to see how big can you make this fire but still make it a contained fire right now to get out of hand. and. I could make some pretty big fires. Surpassing allies. Yes. It's a, it's a level of like control over something that can be so dangerous and so. Scary for some people. But then at the same time to feel like I can have a level of control over it is is a little bit like you get a little high off of that right I mean, I think this is a great description of it because like I have a relative when he was a little boy and you know my kids rented lighting fireworks but he really really got into it like I loved watching him because there is like some like a spark a magic like I can just see him holding his little coke can and just being like I'm so excited and just see that. Same kind of excitement within you talking about you know playing playing with fire, right right and you know seeing the different colors that you can make depending on what you're burning and anyways there's there's so many things that you can do with it. But when it comes to the actual disorder that the pathological disorder of pyro mania according to psychology today people with pyromaniac are deeply fascinated by fire. Of course, they may also experience feelings of satisfaction or release of built up inner tension or anxiety through setting fires and I could. I could see that I was i. was attention anxious person as as a kid risk that. Well but But yeah. So they say it's it's more common in males and females. It tends to be connected with people who have learning disabilities or lack social skills. It also tends to overlap with people who have other issues like mood disorders or substance use disorders had they have impulse control issues? That's when it becomes. It goes from being a fascination with fire to becoming Pie Romania. You don't have the impulse control you use it in a way to hurt other people things like that. So that's when it kind of like crosses and Martin certainly did that he would use. It to threaten people and seemed to enjoy to do to do that. But after High School Martin went to college for a couple of years, then dropped out and continue to suck off his parents generosity by then Martin had perfected how to get money without doing anything for it at least very little. He loved to act intellectually superior to others and act like the big shot driving a company least Porsche while he collected that paycheck through the family business one neighbor said quote I've been told by people who worked down there that he liked the title and salary but not the work. And then there were his marriages between nineteen, seventy, eight and nineteen eighty-nine pain got married four times none lasted longer than nineteen months and each were filled with rage and violence violent man often when to use fire against enemies he's bad dude. But all of his ex wives of which at that time he had four were really really afraid of. That stuff wilson he was one of the amazing Seattle Times investigative reporters who lived and breathed this case and I was able to talk to him about his incredible work on this case, getting the inside scoop of what was going on inside these toxic marriages. So his first wife was hospitalized for a broken back nose and ear drum after he attacked her in nineteen seventy, nine she press charges but would later retract. them the night before the trial out of fear Martin allegedly killed her pets and threatened to burn down her house Martin, second marriage lasted seven months and it's alleged that he drained her life savings of five thousand dollars and backhanded her which broke her jaw and he beat her on other occasions according to a police report after the couple separated in nineteen eighty-three, it's alleged that Martin's scaled the wall of her home using. Suction Cup devices broken and beat her up. I mean you mentioned how frightening that would be? That's insane. Well, and it makes me think that anybody who's dating someone in thinking of marrying them should do a criminal background check at this point I mean well, and we've talked about the so many times I'm sure he probably did not have a a as you'll find out nothing ever came of so their police reports but. There would be no conviction trials or yes. So there was one thing that happened which I'll get to in a minute but Martin's third wife, research? Johannesen. Had a child with an and worked for pangs parents at the warehouse after she divorced Martin she and their daughter went to live with his parents and continued working for the pangs Martin threatened to kill Johannesson in one phone call after their divorce according to police records. So police records also revealed that Martin's fourth marriage ended in. She reported that Martin had tried to hire somebody to kill her and that he allegedly threatened to set fire to her home. It's alleged that during these marriages, Martin would have girlfriends on the side and was an expert at the art of lying and concealing his mood swings would change on a dime from raging anger to fo- compassion that was convincing until you fully understood the true evil that lie inside Martin would his wives would look into his eyes in that moment of rage or hatred and see the depths of darkness. So. Martin sounds like he terrorized his ex wives and yet he was never really called to account for these actions in one case against one of his ex wives he was ordered by a judge to take classes in anger management but I think that was about it. So a picture is beginning to emerge. Selfish and titled Man who has all these failed marriages and several failed business ventures. Martin would eventually move to California in an attempt to become an actor. Ironically, the one part he did land was as a rescuer in a made, for TV movie where he helped victims in the World Trade Center bombing. So it's almost like he played a firefighter I know that's crazy. Yeah. I, Mean Jang is clearly he had some acting shops. Because he kept convincing people to marry him. Yeah. He had to have a way of well in one of the things that I read you know. He really knew how to wine and dine you know these relationships and the the parents money fueled this and you know so he knew the right things that he should be doing. Oh Yeah and he knew what to say and he knew like. I mean I can imagine a woman feeling swept off their feet. You have this person you do this lavish lifestyle maybe gets them gifts they go in great restaurants and then you see the other side of it. Right so in the nineties, the business suddenly though it isn't doing so well, the frozen food business was sliding victim increased competition it business was slow the the plant was operating only sporadically Martin could have rolled up his sleeves and try to help his aging parents turn the ship around. Yeah. Because how old were they at this point they had to be at least in their In their sixties. Yeah. You know they spent their entire life building, this business essentially but no not quote pyro Pang instead Martin tries to talk his parents into selling the building believing they'll give him a chunk of the proceeds, but they refuse they finally tell him no well, because this is what I can imagine like this is their legacy. Yeah. This is there. They've spent days. They were known. They would work seven days a week you from Sunup to sundown the work ethic was incredible and I'm sure they were just like. Hope that their son would step up but that didn't happen. Around. This time Martin starts talking about torching his parents building for the insurance money. He confides in a very unlikely confidante, his Ex Wife Reza, the one who's living with his parents. Yes, and she was his third wife and research despite the abuse she suffered at banks hand she still worked with the family and circumstances forced her into playing a dangerous game. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer remember they had a daughter together and she was still very much afraid of him and believed he was pretty much capable of anything she listened to him and humor has plans of burning down the building but also hoped it was all talk so. I have to kind of set the stage here because in one of the things that I read, she had tried 'cause, I'm sure you're wondering why didn't she just go to his parents if she was close to him but I I also think that there have probably been so many times throughout their relationship where he has threatened to burn things down. Yeah and how many times did he actually carry it out? It doesn't sound like he really carried it out as that often he did carry it out like one time he went after a business associate and threatened I. Don't know if he carried it out I think he might have I. Don't know. Maybe all talk maybe she's gotten. So used to him making these sorts of threats that. She's desensitized to it will the beatings and stuff were definitely well, the beatings that's other story but I mean the the actual pyromaniac part of it of threatening to start fires if he hasn't actually been carrying that out up until this point, I could see where she would just be so desensitized that she's like, yeah, right. Whatever well, I know that one time she she went to. Her in laws and basic was like, Hey, you know Martin's talked about you know killing you for the insurance money and I guess the mom was like. You know doesn't surprise me. That was the response. It is just kind of like so disturbing. Yeah. So she's really but let me send another check. In a little envelope maybe he can use that. The. Hitman money well, you know, Oh, I know wouldn't that just have. Yeah. It had run out by then so. So she basically, as they thought it was you know she humored him until December, Nineteen ninety-four Martin at this time was living in California because he's trying to you know he's a struggling actor. He makes a trip back to Washington with his then girlfriend to get his stored possessions out of the paying warehouse. So this is obviously action is is taking place. There's no reason why he would suddenly just come to get his stuff. Leaving behind though in the basement, he left behind racing fuel from his past glory days when he could afford to play the race car driver. Martin actually told reason that the fire would be set Friday December sixteenth or Saturday December seventeenth after his parents left work. Now at this time, Reza believed him. On December thirteenth, she made a call to farmers insurance telling them that the fire was expected to take place in three or four days. Farmers Insurance then notified the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and the next day an ATF agent interviewed Reza. She had called them like a week or two before the fire described it. Exactly. They surveilled the warehouse for Awhile and then call it off but that was his one one mistake. You there were. Twenty four mistakes that we itemize. So when the arson didn't occur, the surveillance was ended just before Christmas after the date for the fire elapsed Martin went back and ask reset to start the fire herself. She signed saying Hey I've got a child here. I can't take the risk. Why would she even want to do it in I? Mean does he think that she wants part of the insurance money? What what motive would she have to help him? A fear. Well, yeah. I mean she was in a horrible horrible place like she was totally afraid of him. I feel like she just hoped it would all go away and had the courage to want see like I totally believe that you are now going to do this and she steps up and goes to the authorities. So recent didn't tell law enforcement that Martin was still scheming burn down his parents building because she assumed that they were still surveilling the bill. Yeah. She already told them she she did an interview with them. She knew the feds were involved. The insurance company was involved. I would think, yeah. You guys are the professionals you take it from here, right? Right. So not. Only, were they not watching the building they weren't keeping tabs on Martin pain on January Fifth Nineteen, ninety five at around six, thirty PM Harry paying leave the building it's believed the fire was set just a few minutes before seven by seven to a band member that used part of the building to practice called nine one one saying smoke was coming in. So this guy is leasing buildings apparently one of the heavy metal band and one of them went to Mercer Island, high school with Martin, and so they they rented that space. So He's sitting there and you know jamming. By himself and he's like well, I'm really on fire here. There's smoke. Yeah. So he's like gets out goes next door to the payphone, drops a quarter and pay phone. What's that I? Know? Exactly this is nine, hundred, ninety five. So the warehouse was located, just a few blocks from the kingdom and within minutes five engine companies two ladder companies, an ambulance one paramedic unit and air supply unit and to command officers were dispatched and they got there like really quick high level fire department officials knew that the building had been the target of arson threats but the fire companies that responded did not know. The boots on the ground responders also didn't have a building plan. They had no idea that there was a basement. In that building because remember this was built in nineteen o eight there was all these. Weird additions and they just they had no idea. This is like what eighty years after it was built and it's probably been change. The footprint may have changed many times huge. Yes. So a large plume of smoke filled the air the wind was calm that day and the column of smoke rose vertically above the fire firefighters are trying to contain the fire from all angles of the building by. Seven twenty something goes terribly wrong battling the blaze on the first floor. They don't know that below their feet in the basement was the belly of the beast, the origin of the fire explosive flames licking the support beam. The old building made a rumbling sound and the unthinkable a section of the main floor plunged into the basement below as flames spewed from the center and black smoke rendered everything invisible. Here's fire chief Harris who says because of the heroic seven firefighters were able to get out? On that person, the fire had concern up this crew and he told us crew to get the heck out of there and they bailed out through our two windows on the west side of the building, not some of the heroics that were exhibited at that fire last. So that's one of the lieutenants who would perish in the fire and basically he's saying get the hell out split second later to fire lieutenants and two firefighters. Twenty feet into the fourteen hundred degree hell. Below. At, roll call four firefighters were not accounted for they tried to rescue their brothers but by then the fire had grown into five alarms more than one hundred firefighters battled the blaze and smoke could be seen from Bellevue to Mercer Island and the five alarms. I mean that is that is unheard of that almost never happens that means that they have called in five different fire houses to come help them with the blaze. Yeah, I mean it was a I mean to say it was. On fire I mean. It literally was an inferno and can you imagine what that was like for the firefighters battling at knowing that there were four of their brothers in there they tried to get them out and they couldn't I mean. It's like not only are you contending with this huge? You have to keep working you have to keep working in you know you can't help. Then you know you can't help that Matt's tragic I mean I I almost I almost hope that they weren't told. About the firefighters that were still in their. Her mean the new crews as as the new cruiser arriving to go in I. Hope they weren't told just because. There was nothing they could do about it and why burden their minds at that point with this added layer of stress little by this time as you can imagine, all the News cruiser down there and it's all coming out there. You know it's it's in real time coming out. Yeah. But they don't have twitter and facebook and all these things. So they may not have known the details of what was going on. Well, I think that when they did, you know when you do the roll call. Know you're talking and then fire one firefighters talking to another. You know I mean I through the radio calls all that. Nineteen ninety five but it's not like eight hundred, ninety two. Yeah so. I guess it's my to protect them. Sad hope that they didn't have. No. Probably did that Lieutenant Walter Kilgore Firefighter James Brown. Randy terlicker died of asphyxiation after their air tanks emptied lieutenant gray shoemaker tariff. Wait a minute wait a minute. So they dropped into the fire but were not killed instantly. Doesn't sound like they were down there for several minutes at least. Yeah. Is So lames alive before they were asphyxiated. Yeah. So they didn't get all the bodies out until seventy two hours after the fire was reported. and. So Lieutenant Greg. Shoemaker who lost his helmet an oxygen mask in the fall from the first floor died of smoke inhalation. And Kim. It's. It's hard to put into words what this tragedy did to Seattle collectively but also the sacrifice which firefighters make to keep the public safe. Here's then mayor norm rice produce should remind every Seattle resident of the enormous risks and terrible sacrifice just that our firefighters make every day as they protect this community later, thousands would gather outside a huge funeral procession and televised. As the bagpipes are playing here, a huge screen has been mounted in there showing images, the firefighters with their family and them. It's children. They pan the audience, and so many attendees are in uniform. There's not a dry eye in the place of the final bells are. Lieutenant Walter. De Kilgore. Lieutenant Gary a shoemaker. Firefighter. Randy aren't Firefighter. James T Brown. I mean the footage on this was so difficult to. Watch. I. Wonder about the victims do we know much about their stories their families? Yeah I mean the two lieutenants were older I, think they were in their mid forties and they were both married and had children, and then one of the firefighters was married just started out and then another one was. Four years in. So they were beloved and the procession with all the fire trucks and all the people I mean it was just such a huge huge deal. Yeah and I just want to note that you know it's not just that we lost four four heroes for firefighters in a line of duty that is tragic but. Individually, we lost family members. We lost fathers we lost brothers like. Then, as individuals their lives mattered outside of being a fire like, yes, you know it's fantastic that they were first responders that they wanted to take care of their community and protect lives and property and like that is. Enormous. But outside of that, they also had lives like they were individuals who loved and cared about and who loved and cared about others and that was taken out of the world. So I just I just wanted to. Talk about the victims a little bit because I feel like in this case. It. It almost is lost I mean we say four Seattle firefighters and you instantly go oh, that's a shame and it's like you haven't heard their names yet. Yeah and this was the biggest in the Seattle Fire departments, his story. This was the biggest loss and I. think that we can link are to our youtube channel this video that's like a twelve minute video that they put together and in the background of the video is the last dance by Garth Brooks And it's just so like you can't. Get it out of your head. So if you have an interest in learning more about who the firefighters were, we will link that to our youtube channel because it's definitely although it's you know it's something that we we shouldn't forget and Seattle doesn't forget you know especially when we get more deeper into the story that that that these deaths possibly could have been prevented, and so we'll get more into that but in the local news coverage of the fire. There's an interview with Harry Pang and he just sounds so crushed when they heard of the fire in the deaths of the four Seattle firefighters, pangs had no idea that their own son was pretty much a primary suspect. The following week after the fire reset again stepped up agreeing to wear a wire during multiple conversations. Martin wouldn't admit involvement in their initial conversation. He admitted only to joking about his plans to burn down his parents warehouse for the insurance. Yeah a brave woman no. Oh. Yes. I was blown away by her bravery to not only have this guy who has threatened her who has abused her but has carried out this threat and actually killed people, and now she's going in with a wire to talk to him I. Know that takes some guts. It takes some real guts in the second conversation he spoke with her even less the third. He just didn't even want to have anything to do with resell although I don't think he suspected her of wearing a wire, but he wanted to step way back from this because it had gone sideways and you know Martin was placed under police surveillance. As law enforcement began to build their case against him? So at this point, they know for sure that it was arson and did the insurance company never pay out because of that I don't know the particulars of whether I I think that they quickly learned that it was are. So I'm just wondering actually ever got any money. I'm sure he didn't get anywhere but his parents but who knows if they ended up giving it to him you know I mean I. Don't know I would not at this point I I would hope that they didn't but I'm assuming that because they didn't have anything to do with. Arson they would still get paid on the policy, but I don't know. But one thing that we do know is that they knew about this plan, the ATF the Seattle Fire Department now, the SPD's involved on this you know they. So he was you know looking pretty good for this at some point they realized that it was arts arson I don't know exactly when but they probably figured it out pretty quickly because when they determined that it started in the Basement Indiana fuel down there, they usually can figure that stuff out pretty quickly. Yeah. So despite being shadowed by police paying bolted on January seventeenth from Seattle. To California on an Amtrak train. So remember he lived in California, but still he he went back home surprising that they didn't have some kind of court order that he stay in the state or something I know. So by the time investigators gathered enough evidence to arrest paying he disappeared on February nineteen seven weeks after the fire he flew from Los Angeles to Mexico City and then to Rio he actually purchased the ticket to Brazil in his own name and was even so bold as to apply for a visa the FBI stepped in when it became known that he had fled to Brazil then an international fugitive. Now does says he and his writing partner. Eric. Nodar were also hot on pangs trail Eric even God airline reservation person to check the records for Martin paying on a certain flight and that person confirmed yet he taken that flight to. Rio. I jumped on a flight assumes like a debris. Oh, the try to get there. But as I was like either at the airport going to report the news on Cross, he was arrested in. Rio. Was GonNa be that easy to talk to When I got there though I met this guy and we'll Montoya who is a fascinating character in this so we'll get to ban well Montoya in a minute but one Seattle journalists king. Fives Linda Byron did get to speak with Martin in Zile. She waited at the doorstep of the courthouse Linda Byron by the way is like a Seattle institution is phenomenal journalist who's been here for many many many years and just he's awesome and Kudos. To her for like put in that sweat equity waiting for that interview and I think that that's what local investigative reporting is so critical and I just wanted to shine the spotlight. So brightly on the folks that covered this case and now, but also you know this investigative reporting is so important but I'll get off that. So box for a second when Linda did speak with Martin who at the time was denying any involvement in the arson. Let me know how good you think his acting skills are about the four deaths environment I cried. You know I think of my family and what would have happened in those shoes when I finally got up the Courage inside to go down and see the building it was like saying goodbye to sibling. And I also said a prayer for firemen and families. Okay. He sells he's reading from a script like he's figured out ahead of time what he wants to say and he's he's memorized it and he's just reading it. There's no emotion whatsoever in what he's saying yeah I mean. I. Wasn't buying it. You know later Linda wasn't either would say that she wasn't either but. Martin like I said was playing the victim card. She asked him why he fled to Brazil and he was acting like a he fled there will because he was being falsely persecuted will. They're supposed to be no extradition from Brazil figures that The dust would settle the truth would come out. and. Then, I could go back. Basically I was running scared because I was being railroaded still am. I know I just WanNa note the fact that he used the term railroaded and his grandparents came to the country to build the railroad and I almost feel like he's he's using their memory in vain by using that terminology. Well, I don't think that you can't even compare him to his. No these hard working immigrant you know came to America for any. He's just completely there's just how far off the rails. Hello. All of these like railroad terms that we. Use these days it just it reminds me of how far he has gone away from the legacy that his parents and grandparents have built for his family and I think that's one of the most unsatisfying things is that there's no reason why other than who he is, he decided to be this way You know many times you hear cases and he's like Oh they had the most horrible childhood Oh that you know not to justify but to understand it. There's no understanding no understanding the total narcissism, the total entitlement. But this is when when we start talking about the real psychology of it and chemical imbalances in the brain possibly and other things that must be happening that we don't know about because there has to be a reason right? This isn't normal human behavior, but it isn't a reason. It doesn't sound like at least it's not a reason that came from his nurturing as he was growing up this. Somehow is built into his nature. Yeah and he and the real reason Martin fled to Brazil he knew that Washington State allows for first degree murder and arson charges. If firefighters death results from an arson, even if the arsonists didn't intend on killing anyone because an arsonist ought to know that firefighters will be responding to the fire in Brazil. The law is completely different, and that is exactly why Martin went there. They don't have the first degree murder for arson. So. Let's get back to Manuel Montoya because he plays a huge pivotal role inness. That's the person that duff met in Brazil. When he tried to get that interview with Martin, pain men well is a music promoter I. Think then he became an FBI informant and was like hanging out with Martin paying in. Radio. For. Days, even tabs on them for the FBI I didn't find that out until a year later or something I just meant Montoya there because I was trying to find Tang or anyone that had talked to him in Greenville. So when Pang was still in California as he was hatching his plans to flee Brazil, he had convinced Montoya that he was innocent because Monterey had met him earlier in the L. A. Area, and at that time was helping to set him up in real. This guy that's falsely accused of something needs to go to Rio for a while get out of the United States. You know. So he was introducing him to people and I I think even helped to arrange an apartment for him. So I don't WanNa, compare him to Ted Bundy but I think that when you hear the interview, they're still that kind of like that he did with Linda? Byron there's control piece there and he he's also it's not just wining and dining the women. It sounds like he was really able to convince people that he was a good guy and. That they just had all wrong and they didn't see this evil inside of him because he knew how to play that card fortunately Montoya realize that paying was lying to him about this. This you know being unjustly accused when he saw a piece on America's most wanted and learned about the death of the firefighters and he called the FBI immediately and realized like I'm on the wrong side of this and I will be your confidential informant the FBI then sent Montoya. To Brazil explicitly to keep track of paying as they worked on getting an extradition order and that would just take them for ever at one point authorities actually discussed kidnapping Martin taking him to Uruguay which had a different different extradition laws that plan didn't work out and you know the FBI start getting antsy and they decided, hey, we should probably not lose paying because we know that he's slippery. They wanted to get him into custody, but because he was in. Brazil. They had to work with Brazilian authorities. They arrested him on March Fifteenth Nineteen ninety-five the legal battles would take over a year. Payne's lawyers also argued that an alleged confession paying made to FBI agents in Rio on March sixteenth was coerced. So they were trying they were working through all these things. 'cause Pang to the FBI agents did say did it you know and then they tried to walk that back guests who his attorney was in this John Henry Brown. Isn't he everyone's attorney think. Everyone's attorney I. Think so. So basically these legal battles were, of course just what? Martin hope for lots of attention. Well, and his lawyers did their best to limit as possible sentence. So they could negotiate this because until that was negotiated, he wouldn't come back. Prosecutors were trying to get him back without any conditions. But in many ways their hands were tied, he wouldn't be extradited unless they agreed that that he wouldn't be charged with four counts of first degree murder. So February twenty-ninth and nineteen ninety-six paying was finally extradited to the US and by February nineteen, Ninety Eight, he finally pled guilty to four counts of manslaughter and was sentenced to. Thirty, five years in prison, and that was such a huge blow to firefighters to the community like everybody was like, how how is he only getting thirty five years? Yeah. He took away four lives and affected four families and entire city and entire fire department like his crime. The really had so many ripple effects and such devastating impact on the community. It's hard to believe that he would get out of jail when he was what probably in his sixties he'd be ready for parole. Well, you know as they say, hold my beer I got more common of voice. So paying was a model prisoner until twenty thirteen. That's when he started planning for his upcoming release with a scheme to create an opulent lifestyle for himself by committing identity fraud I, talk Seattle Police Detective Todd Jacobson who played a key role in that investigation apparently paying and his accomplice plan to set up credit card accounts in the names of firefighters, police, officers, and witnesses involved in pangs nineteen ninety-five conviction for manslaughter. His plan was to funnel money from those accounts into offshore bank accounts, but they needed an informant on the outside. With him he had a I on the outside. He was looking for another person on that side that had good information about identity theft his first on the outside who ended up being named in this case with Charles McLean or chuck McLean. McLean. Had worked at Taylor Casino had been let go up there. But while he was working there, he had come across routing numbers account numbers for their accounts receivable. So our informant kinda inserted our undercover as this person who could carry out the actual. Of Setting up fake credit card accounts and fake bank accounts and purchase orders and things like that and Jimmy Martin both had conversations where they believe that they could get between five and seven million minimum maybe up to twenty million dollars through the casino. So basically not only were they were they scheming potentially rip off to Leyla but then also millions from the Va.. Claim. Also, supposedly Charles had the account and routing numbers for the VA and paying said that the topic could get between fifteen hundred million out of the va for those accounts do with good behavior he'd get out and twenty eighteen. He planned to take this nest egg back to Brazil where he previously fled while under investigation in one, thousand, nine, hundred, five, fortunately the three month undercover investigation toward those plans. Having several meetings with McLean. We had three meetings with him with our undercover where he passed over information for us, and during that timeframe, we also had recorded conversations between art form it and paying while he was in prison and then first week of June of thirteen. We end up having the third meeting with McLean outside with our undercover and we arrested him at that time. When we arrested him, we interviewed him. Full Confession to not only him. But all tanks involvement and emphasize that Pang was pretty much the driving force behind this whole scheme. So the sad fact is this fraud scheme didn't add much time to a sentence. In fact Martin paying got thirty three percent of his thirty five year sentence reduced for good behavior. He was released from prison on September twenty seventh twenty eighteen he served a total of twenty three years and still owed about three million dollars. In restitution his parents died while he was incarcerated Harry paying two thousand, four Mary paying in two, thousand nine and paying was released. He was released without parole because at the time of his crime, there was no allowance for community supervision had he been convicted in two thousand eighteen he would have a mandatory thirty, six months of community supervision. So he's just out about and I asked hot about how he felt about paying working the system yet again i. Don't try to pay attention to what happens afterwards because most likely I'm not can be happy with the ending with either plea bargains or light sentences or for his incidents getting off but third for good time So I try not to follow up with that but with Martin Tang is like well you WanNa do right 'cause you know he's probably using they get the sense that these four firefighters anyone else involved newsroom free to. I feel so bad for him to think of all the hard work that he puts into these investigations and then he feels like he has to walk away because the system always lets him down I know but I think that's Sad on the other hand I commend him for the mental health and like knowing like, yeah, and and he's a he's a trainer now too and so he he trains his officers detectives to kind of have that same mindset because once it's out of their hands, you know they don't know what's going to happen. So let's talk about the legacy of this case. Duff says, they're investigative reporting revealed twenty four errors. We did a big article called twenty four mistakes that officials made with the with the arson fire that was our seminal article after after months of investigating many changes were made about how firefighters respond to fires, and that's why investigative journalism as I said. is so important and here's stuff to standard in journalism when there's faster, what went wrong? What mistakes were made? It's a standard investigative angle in almost all disasters. So that's what we did here with a lot of shoe leather reporting. So in one, thousand, nine, jury awarded five point six million dollars in damages from the city of Seattle to the widow of James. Brown. The families of the other three firefighters killed settled claims ranging from four hundred and fifty thousand to three point five, million jurors would go onto a sign seventy, five percent of the blame and the firefighters deaths to the Seattle, fire department and paying was deemed twenty-five percent responsible. How do you decide? A percentage of someone's life that you you know like a life is lost. So seventy five percent I don't. have to do that but stunning. Stunning. Stunning to you but in a stunning turn of events. Jessica stunning Martin Pangs. Attorneys actually blamed the fire department. The attorney said the firefighters would not have died if the department had carried out a plan to prevent the arson after receiving a tip in mid December, they said the deaths were if not totally at least in great part of responsibility of the Fire Department. That's insane I. Mean I get where they made mistakes and yes they did have some liability and yes, they should have done things differently but to say that. Therefore paying was not responsible for seventy five percent of this I. Don't think I agree with that. So you know duff weighs in on that. He said that it wasn't surprising because you know defense attorneys have to do what they do but you know most people in Seattle just weren't buying it obviously under our law is somebody sets an arson no matter how many mistakes the firefighter make that arsonist is responsible does twenty four mistakes are the reasons their lives were not saved. They're not the reason their lives were lost. Yeah. I just I think that's an important distinction. You know they didn't cause firefighters to go into a burning building died I mean that was caused by the arsonist. Yeah, and there were so many they've done so much obviously not only were they hit in the belt with these huge payouts deservedly. So but they made a lot of changes one, some of the changes that came about well like having a plan of the building. You know before they had no plan to even when they when they went to the fire. So that just stuff like that where you take a three hundred, sixty degree look at at at what's going on before you send firefighters and you communicate with each other, they should have known about that investigation firefighters should have known that there was already an arson. You know that that somebody had threatened to burn down the building they should have known that going in. So lots of different changes in the way that they do business I mean they hadn't even inspected the building. So lots of changes that they made another sat aspect of it. You know talk about his parents again they knew he had committed this horrible crime but would never accept it not truly apparently Martin wrote a letter to his mother when he was incarcerated, it was very short just wanting to let her know that she needed to leave him enough in will. So that he could buy a sailboat and travel around the world doing good deeds for people the neurons I can't even he. He clearly has mental issues where he does not get it. You can't treat people that way. And then come back and ask for more. It has worked his whole life though that's the thing spoiling a I mean I think it might be difficult for you and I have I have five. You have four you know. Is it possible? Yeah. Many. I I just. I. Can't I just can't imagine like, yes I'm GonNa give this to you. Yes I'm GonNa give this to you. Yes. I'm going to give this to I mean I can't judge that but you're kind of like how does that feel good how they? How do they learn personal responsibility if they are never and there's such hard working people yeah. But I can also understand where people who grew up in the Circumstances they did immigrant family with ten children. They probably had a really really hard life growing up, and they probably felt really good about the fact that they could. They could give their children a life and the luxuries that they never could have dreamed of when they were growing and you know that is the American dream being able to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and have a nice life and provide for your children. And thank you for that because that helps a little bit but I still am like I just all those little red envelopes stuffed with cash it some point when they knew what he was doing when they knew about his crimes, you think that that would change and I think the surprising thing here is that even after all of his misdeeds came to light, he still was acting like a spoiled Brat. Yeah so one interesting. Thing to when he was released on parole he decided that he wanted to change his name. He then chicken out at the last minute according to the Tri City Herald he skipped Kennewick court hearing to change his name to mark son. Lee. For he says cultural religious and protective reasons apparently, they believe that he missed the meeting because he didn't want to have a confrontation with the sister of one of his victims Kim. Shoemaker Anderson. whose brother was one of the four Seattle firefighters she traveled from enumclaw and was gonNA raise hell and he remembered her because and I just love this. Go Cams. Go- Kim Games are awesome. Wait you're gonNA love even more because apparently during his trial in one, thousand, nine, hundred, five, she attended every day and once found herself sitting behind Pang and she was daring his long braided hair hanging behind his chair and she recalls her her husband whispered don't. Bat Braid. The judge removed her from the courtroom telling her she'd had enough for the day. I gotta say Kim can girl after hard? Yeah. Yeah exactly. And again, if you want to find out more about these Seattle firefighters, we're going to have that video about their lives of on our youtube channel. You can also find us at scene of the crime podcast DOT com. I'm Carol Massaro with Kim Shepard, and this is the scene of the crime.

Martin Seattle California Martin Pang High School FBI Brazil Harry Pang Harry Mary Pang arson Kim Shepard Martin Tang Manuel Montoya Marlins Seattle Times Ruby Chow Walter de Kilgore pyro Pang Teen Martin
Haunted

Dateline NBC

1:24:22 hr | 1 year ago

Haunted

"I'm lester whole tonight on dateline one of the most haunting cases we've ever covered after nearly ten years a trove of news oh evidence takes us deep into families dark secrets asked Me July twenty nine two thousand eight she feared for to Susan Powell everything works out and we're all happy and live happily ever after as much as possible had guests then but now nearly ten years after it began the long withheld evidence is finally revealed private journals written spoken square miles of absolutely nothing with somewhere out there mineshafts in the ground places to hide a body mother was different somehow you could feel it you're in the room with her husband I've never heard my wife I've never but where thing was right from the start there was something awful some hovering presence this missing woman this young here's Keith Morrison with haunted stranger things were going on and the story of a father is son and the woman caught between them at by the end of the whole in this desolate keeper of secrets they call the West Desert nearly ten years since she vanished and finding her is still kind of passion aw she's out there somewhere must be maybe here I know her right inside private lives hoping for redemption but heading for hell inside the story of what happened him under her not true to extremely perplexing it of you but of course I didn't know the half of it not that much mm-hmm we're falling some stories just won't let go it is just it's just so vast really thousands of Jennifer and her mom at West Valley Police officers at the Powell residents on Sarah Circle drive no sign of Josh or Susan Anywhere film not as good a person rather depressed moody irritable when I get away from things ugly saga an entire family would be lost talk why why that we had an idea we uh-huh carpet right in front of their left seat that was just another layer to the oddness of the whole situation also odd the whole family appeared to be missing so she called an emergency contact Joshua's sister Jennifer graves this is her in two thousand ten I sitting on the table beside the bed her while it was in there with credit cards Jennifer began to worry and she wasn't the only one uh-huh Josh's mom called the police son and his wife and their two children haven't responded to anything this morning the couch was damp the radio was on and the family minivan was gone and then Jennifer walked into the bedroom her really need to lock the door after you leave and I thought Oh yeah I guess that means I should go right so so Jennifer gave police permission to break a window get inside when we first walked into the house there were two box fans pointed at the yeah I wondered if it was because of the snow but she called Susan called Josh No answer called their workplaces they hadn't shown up and entirely out of character for Susan Centre Daycare Provider Debbie Coldwell this particular Monday she didn't show up and he's totally creeped out I do why are you making this so difficult I don't really hurt that people try to say that I don't love Susan Susan Cox back the beginning seem prime for a decidedly sunny life hip on West Valley City Utah Josh and Susan Powell's Sung's Charlie and Braden missed their usual six thirty am drop off at daycare. I'm not sure that anybody said you didn't love sued Davor saying you killed Susan sometimes you kill one you love and and it's all changed this is Susan's father Chuck Back in two thousand eleven he hadn't heard from Susan either I called around and no one had heard from Talked after the eight Josh cleaned up well juggling the boys so attentive he went by Susan and he could see that she was a little bit and Josh was in the kitchen making pancakes he kept the boys in the kitchen with him while he prepared the meal Susan and I just sat audio journal back then it's just recently been released and here he is describing the first time he noticed Susan well I didn't know who she immediately concerned that's unusual behavior to say the least one morning I'm sitting in my office was life going on even though is Josh Self admitted he was nothing at all like say Susan people find it difficult to remain in my company over extended periods so I went up now next day no Susan and Josh wasn't answering his phone what had happened and she was just a Happy Child Happy Times Hansel I remember one time I was upset with her because she drew flowers own she was still a teenager when the romance began with a young man named Josh Powell the function of the Church of Jesus Christ latter-day Saints Josh kept an certainly not the tragedy it became Susan's Mom Judy back in two thousand eleven sc grew up people were kinda drawn to her three something happens to me or my family still to come Susan secret videos her husband secretive behavior do not wants to time Susan has loved every minute with me she loves the things other people cannot tolerate about me must have because less than three months after they met they got engaged. Susan's parents worried about that thought maybe Susan and Josh we're moving too fast it was Monday December seventh two thousand nine and overnight snowstorm at dropped a white blank do you do not want us to talk to anybody just shows and her father-in-law's secret obsession she has totally creeped out by my dad she's been suffering and here with her father in law it grew this strange feeling there have been some accusations that but Susan seemed determined he was her guy here she is leaving a playful message in his audio journal Default sorry for him he didn't have many friends and I think she felt she could make him a happy and that he wouldn't change she was nineteen years old when they married he was twenty five his father Steve Shot this wedding video well because that's what she liked was making people happy and making things pretty but even more than that more than anything Susan wanted to make a family I'm just worried about hit for meal messages began flooding Susan's Inbox left Steve's place and eventually moved to Utah where said Jennifer they seem fine pretty good in the early years her bedroom wall and they asked her why did you draw the flower on the wall was pretty so Steve was always hovering around with a camera seen so innocent at the time Lian Brayden stayed married for almost nine years until that cold December day when everyone was frantically searching for the also he put a blanket around her and I was really nice chilled and soon tired Susan went upstairs to take a nap said Giovana the Powell family where was Susan Powell there is astonishing new evidence in this heartbreaking Mr early which he said they would always be cuddling at my house my husband will walk by and see them kissing on the couch and get a room they had two sons Charles Josh said the boys are GonNa go sledding I said Oh that's nice at I was still gonNa stay untangling and he said well unlikely hope everything turns out Okay Giovanna owings the POWs neighbor recalled visiting them the day before Susan had called her over to help untangle some yards it's not okay Susan's not with him the boys were with them but Susan's not there he said he went to pick her up at work and she wasn't does she was about to leave I called her back and I was like hey come talk to me for a while and she did and she seemed to like him and he said Okay I'll be home soon. Giovanna explained the urgency of the situation Josh that Susan had gone to work hasn't happened Steve recorded just the kind of thing that made the Cox's cringe when it came to their new son-in-law back over and Josh did make it home eventually the story he had to tell you will see deep finally picked up for moment Jennifer thought maybe everything was okay but as she listened to Josh talking so you realized it air which doesn't make any sense because Devante had already alerted Josh that Susan did not show up to work Josh and Jennifer agreed to meet back at his place so she raised draft to him to there wasn't a lot of money at first so they moved in with Josh's Dad near Seattle and private places freezing death friends and family tried to reach the couple all morning but they're calls kit going to voicemail so neighbor Giovanna had her son call from his I don't know when dateline continues never had a case like this where families missing and nobody has any idea where they're at Ellis Maxwell I came here you know it was pretty happy Susan's best friend Casey Hellawell remembers the Powell's then three years into their marriage still behave like Susan so he waited around for hours. No Josh Josh Sister Jennifer was waiting to and when Powell's I thought they got a for a drive up in the mountains and slid off a cliff or there knowing josh he took him on some dirt road they're stuck in the snow twisted how dark that was obsessed with everybody sick yes I talked with Susan about sex and anything else it's less her father in law so she was an outgoing bright person he's less social and so I think that probably was commit no one knew where she was at and he said Oh I'm sure she went to work she must have gone to work more than two hours went by and still no sight of in big deal no none at all in the beginning here's kind of open minded gone okay maybe they chose to elope with the kids and Yes sir said Maxwell and off he went to the Powell House so when you got there to have any indication any inkling that this was going to be nearly nine hours after everyone had started frantically searching for the family detective Maxwell thought that for a husband whose wife was missing Josh seemed hardly no no and then he kind of ignored me was talking to his kids you guys want pizza or do you want burgers and I'm like Josh the lead detective on the Powell case back in two thousand nine it's only now now that he's retired police able to talk about the investigation and that's still haunted you need to talk we need to find Susan well she should be at work well she's not josh come home well I need to stop my kids something to eat did he say where he was at that telling you buddy and they'll be back this afternoon or tomorrow but then detective Maxwell heard from Jovana Josh had resurfaced with the boys but you say okay let's not drought on the wall okay after High School Susan announced she intended to go to beauty school but why do you WanNa be a petition and into by her own engagement ring from the department store where she worked he paid her back but still Susan I didn't seem to worry about it stop and listen you need to come home and get kids fed it was close to seven pm when Josh finally arrived home with the boys about an hour after that phone call what time did you leave the house seems like one thirty two to go camping he said in December in the middle of he had turned off he was afraid of raining the battery however I'm leaning into this minivan there's a charger plugged into the cigarette lighter life Susan Powell these recordings have Josh's first interview with police were tightly guarded by law enforcement for years you know where Susan unemotional it didn't seem bothered or moved by anything Maxwell Asks Josh why hasn't he been answering his phone all morning Josh said in looking at this ring on actually I paid social discount hoping to save a few dollars Josh had chick Susan coming up there's this peak load arolla razor flip cell phone a new clue for police and new mm-hmm I was in the office and the sergeant came in it was like hey trolls out on a missing family we reach out to him so we can do to help them okay it's nineteen fifteen hours on the seventh of December two thousand nine with Josh Powell in regards to as missing call Jennifer cell phone around six PM an impatient maxwell has to speak with him identify myself and say hey you need to get the house now so it just noted that for later meanwhile maxwell asked Josh to follow him to the station answer some questions the boys Kim belong burrowed Susan Cell Phone the day before for this lies just a bottle of lies if josh came in as a witness he walked out as a person of interest it would be years before the real story emerged but for now let's just say a things didn't go well which is why Josh and Susan The last time you seen her about midnight last night Susan had gone to bed said Josh in his living room do you want me to clean the oldest like what like a wash cloth or something or was eager to start a new life with Josh fall this time Josh answered and I said Josh nobody knows where you're adding you've got to get home right now everybody's worried blowing detective Maxwell returned to the main question where was Susan where would you think you're I think he would go to work I remember my partnerships and why do you have sousaphone and he was just like a deer and headlines Josh stumbled through a story about how he forgot he I with instructions from actual return to the station first thing in the morning and then Maxwell made a decision that at the time seem reason different be right that search word that night that's because the next morning Josh did not report to West Valley PD he stayed home cleaning snowstorm. Maxwell was to say the least skeptical I'm glassy I'm going to do and well I thought it would up my kid and they found something significant right there buried in the center console there's this pink Motorola Razor Flip Cell Phone double we've discussed whether or not we had enough for a search warrant to keep the house and it was decided that we did not looking back if there was one thing revealing interview the person being questioned Josh Susan's son Okay Charlie how old are you today yeah I don't I don't know I didn't even think it was that I didn't even thinking yesterday but later so use the rug doctor and clean couch that said Josh is why the big fans so what did he do well Josh told the detective he loaded his boys then two and four into the minivan in the middle of the night export jobs why do you have Susan's phone and he was just like deer and headlines You Philip under arrest he's out of him and then he goes back to me I mean to a more than now you'd be main committee again but I still love him I think she and police had asked Jennifer and her mom to leave while they searched the Powell home for clues now I could her own home Jennifer Kef Dialing Josh's cell and is that where you want us to know at the very same time a few miles away another detective was conducting a different and much more four-year-old Charlie saw but the key thing was he said his mom went along on the camping trip maxwell decided to roll the dice coming up newly uncovered interviews reveal new clues from Susan's own uh recently I sat down with Josh's sister Jennifer again he was running around the house cleaning things wiping things down picking things up why Charlie how old are your four this recording crystals crystals your mom Steve Crystals are okay. Tom Which of course contradicted Josh's story that he took the kids camping while Susan Stayed Home Charlie said his mom went with them but she it has been kept under wraps for years now we have it what did you do last night go camping near right campaign I don't know where she's at and t back yet do not want us to talk to you do not want us to talk to anybody and just shows up the detective about that mysterious late night camping trip in the snow thank you can't move as late and said the way over here I actually did call turnings and they said I should definitely we asked Josh if he was willing to cooperate further josh declines Maxwell told him he was free to go anyways Yeah Josh's computers that rug doctor said he cleaned the couch with and his cell phone and they got a warrant to search Josh's minivan he agreed to wait in the lobby elected tiny drops of blood beside the living room couch there were about size of ballpoint pen and when tested turned out to be dropped would you do that your wife's missing and you're doing your laundry Josh finally showed up at the police station nearly four hour of Susan blood not enough to prove anything but more than enough to ramp up suspicion about what happened to her investigators also sees young boys win my move your children tone ours textures that moment was you guys last night they still are being that rural and crystals grow in rocks it was hard to know exactly what did not come back long steak rare of Christian or where what are crissy's on in my dad your mom and your brother Dad and go drive out to the desert you know what I mean well for some reason I know quantity generator and what about that damn couch before josh left Detective Maxwell shared some New Your House is ours for right now we're not gonNa let you back into that house the Front Josh and your children are tone art detectors that moment with you guys last night and she didn't come back engine disappeared. Police confiscated both Josh and Susan Cell Phones but Josh had removed the SIM card out of both of them phones to go with US thing that she didn't with US actually didn't think he had enough for an arrest media could have went into Nevada Colorado Idaho we never ever found out where he would what he finally turned up detective Maxwell discovered he racked up more than eight hundred miles on that rental car where did he go rented a rental car and once he rented the Royal Car he was Gone Josh disappeared for two days they did find something in a compartment in the floorboard of the fan is a white garbage sack that is full of pieces of sheet rocks doc heavily burned from an object that he destroyed and that object is in there as well but it's obliterated it looked maxwell approve it harms Susan so they kept investigating in particular Maxwell wanted to trace Josh's movements in those crucial first hours and days after I should put something on that piece of sheet rock and then incinerated maybe with the Acetylene Torch Maxwell saw the Powell's garage he was obviously I could have done anything destroyed more evidence even moved Susan's body they just didn't know and however much they suspected Josh they couldn't but when detective Maxwell tried to return the van to Josh and missed him by ten minutes he took a taxi out to the solid international airport where he all data from Cell Phone Towers Place Josh in West Valley during the call but as soon as he hung up he drove about twenty miles south toward the campsite where he said what he was looking but they were able to get Josh's phone records and discovered he did something odd that very first morning after his neighbor Giovanna turning to renovate under there was no sim card in Susan's phone and he somehow pop the SIM card out of his cell phone before we took it when I sent the burnt object out to get tested and meanwhile hoping that Josh might lead them to Susan police installed a GPS tracking device in the van live she feared for her safety something happens to me or my family are all us we need to find Susan I had no idea of how pod today with Sunday that was really really stupid anyway hopefully you got to work okay but remembered Giovanna had just told him Susan detectives had perhaps a little late obtained a search warrant and while Josh was at the station investigators scoured the just scrubbed house of his and we take the kids and then he turned around back toward West Valley and it's at that point that he calls Susan's phone and leaves her voicemails mm-hmm let me think about it for days and your wife is missing job but I want to think about it for a couple of days doc tell me about camping little little Charlie Powell that he's on his way home from their camping trip we are on our way back and I can't believe that somehow my brain this today very concerned about whatever that item was and so yeah you got to think that okay that had something to do with her disappearance I didn't go to work or cellphone detective mice will ask to search Joshua's minivan it did not make it to work and Josh had confirmed with his sister Jennifer that Susan wasn't at her office and yet minutes after he did that he pulled up outside Susan's building and left her and other voicemail here intron accusers he news more than continue to assert that she loved you yeah and God knows she must've loved your children yeah along with me coming up Josh Powell tells his story really hurts people think that Susan simply left simply left just midnight one o'clock in the morning just I've had enough I'm out of here wishy angry those days now she distressed brother Michael who come down from Washington shortly after Susan disappeared the police suspected he knew something but he never told them what and Josh kept she loved them probably more than she loved her own life that before from to say and yet she was she upset about anything now did she express any desire to have things change now did she slipping through their fingers endless frustration when Max bell got the lab results from that object Josh it apparently worked so hard to destroy the so she must have left while he was out camping with the boys he said of course address another question was it reasonable to believe a man how far away with his father and had agreed to talk to us we made an appointment for a late afternoon and we waited certainly decide to wake his kids in the middle of the night and take them camping in a snowstorm those are just the kind of things that we do we go out and have fun never again talk to the police without an attorney present but even as the investigation continued he did decide to talk one on that you would note to suggest she's still alive is that what's happened I don't know what's happened to her I don't know where she is she didn't want to why not she was mad about something no she was yeah give us a report back saying that it was some sort of metal but they couldn't identify it either and Josh after taking some time to think about it you're in a have gone by since Susan Powell's disappearance when we set up our cameras in a suburban hotel near Seattle by this time Josh was living heard and then Josh brought up a whole new idea and nasty allegation was this the real reason Josh agreed to be interviewed Josh said Susan must've run away because of damage inflicted by her parents she's been suffering the rental abuse in her teenage journals Susan's journals are clearly extremely important to her disappearance she has a very low self esteem because of severe emotional abuse as a child you knew all this you said because Susan documented alive why wouldn't she contact you I think that the pressure that his surrounding this entire situation at midnight or one o'clock or two o'clock in the morning that night in December got up out of her bed and simply left and hasn't even said odd then that he refused to show Susan's journals to the police even though they asked repeatedly and many way if would it be a hard thing on her self esteem people are trying to paint her as the image of perfection her parents in the middle of the night there during travelling at night citizen learned it even as a child why didn't she go with you ooh Josh was lying we asked him to describe his own loving relationship with his wife was he struggling here and and waited arrive close to midnight two very hyper little boys in tow and offered us his theory tell me about Susan you have the floor and if you WanNa tell me about her well want to deny everything about her that is real and that is that makes her who she is whether it's we have a lot of fun we have a lot in common is making it very difficult on her this is a very hard thing on her self esteem I would try to say that I don't love Susan I'm not sure that anybody said you didn't love Susan but they've you killed Susan when dateline continues good bad or indifferent she does not feel that her parents love her by this time we knew a lot about Susan at her family we knew and of course we have our children in common and she loves me and I love her we love each other make no mistake said Josh he wanted his wife it would seem you rattled I'm pretty pissed off and then as we talked you return to the UNCON- well we're both very diligent about our finances and we try to be diligent about cleanliness It was just twelve days after Susan Powell disappeared when her husband Josh while others were desperately never heard her I've tried to defend her but he really defending Susan or someone else Susan because I never did anything that someone would be to charge me with is he said all this Josh was well aware that the I've always had a lot of lot of good times we told me about any inappropriate relationship my dad never told me about any any inappropriate relationship he's dad now we were question of love and Susan I don't really hurts that people will try to say that I don't Love Susan I'm not sure that anybody said you didn't love and but they were saying that you kill the Susan sometimes you kill the one you love I never heard citizen and remember Susana Josh lived in Steve's house for a few months about a year after their wedding during which time Steve claimed his daughter-in-law what do you tell them about her I just tell them that we don't know where she's out do you worry that somebody will charge you with a crime that will searching for her slipped away took the boys and went to live with his father Steve near Seattle and you know the same apple doesn't fall far from the tree if my conversation with Josh was strange interview with his dad was very disturbing investigation was continuing and police might be getting closer is kind of wrapping up I suppose the pressure that's why join the moment yes he said that he said he had no idea why Susan with ever leave her kids or him and I would like her to be found no like her to come home I want her to see my sons there her sons to they love their mommy thanks another disturbing conversation Josh within concerned about this fight and talk to Josh about it I just enjoyed the moment kept coming onto him Susan would come in to my office after she waxed her legs and she would say you know feel my legs they're pretty grab Brayden and taken from me she'd come up and press her self against my hands and then I'd have to you know pull my hands out from between Food Susan was very open and I would say very aggressive in a male female relationships and auditing he said he could see clearly after her second child was born and he would hold the baby she would come up and rather than reach out those thoughts and work through those Oh when Susan I disappeared I was totally devastated because I was worried about her as worried about my son and I was worried about me and I had a good relationship even though he couldn't explain Susan's disappearance he said he was convinced Josh had nothing to do with if I were you US investigators at least one family member suspected Steve was covering for Josh so what is it like for you when people accused they have on a person the more they basically harassed person so what you're suggesting is just trying to rally your cage Steve were on board with anybody else who says Susan loves her kids and as difficult for us to understand why she would walk away from them doc that kind of a thing she was very relaxed around me more than relaxed in Steve's mine zoos in thank you for being with them nope don't think that's going to happen what makes you so sure affect us at all so what happened to Susan well he said he thought about this and maybe he said maybe she was his reaction to this kind of stuff and it was good I was totally satisfied with it I mean you know just totally comfortable with everything he said he passed with flying colors it's difficult for us understand why she would walk away from her parents why she would walk away from Josh I even wonder why she would walk away from me she it they must be on to something people assume I would think no I would think that they're probably not onto something according to my attorney the less could ever do is murder his wife you know things like that and I and I just gauged his reactions testing I was testing him I wanted to see I would have had those dark nights of the soul to wonder am I wrong about my own son could yeah where do you put we're very very grateful that we have two little boys that are still alive this is a woman that had some really deep problems Josh's even suggested that's what did he tell you I mean I just observed him and I observed I would say things like Josh you know the most abusive thing that a that a father equal with a two because sometimes in all Susan would want me to massage your back or something she would I mean Josh would be right there and she would ask me to massage your back another man was she leaving because she was so involved with this other guy she just wanted out and Susan was very suggestive oil I can see that from her journal urge journals again the police still wanted them that Powell man still refused to hand them over We don't feel any guilt for anything that has to do with Susan's disappearance in Oh we're totally comfortable with our own position so no it doesn't chief on the Lam Susan worked for Wells Fargo investments she worked for fidelity investments before that she was had access to all kinds of her and and Brayden just very strange. Josh wasn't concerned about this I didn't talk to Josh about it I mean I just what happens when a true crime show becomes part of the story hold onto your seats the Ryan stories things became personal all episodes are available now wherever you get your podcasts join us for the ride on committee she left because she was concerned about what she was doing to the kids but even more likely set steve's you just ran off with them or maybe she knew if she stayed she might hurt her boys said Steve What if is it seemed to him she was on the verge of an emotional crisis back to our story she vanished nearly ten years ago what happened to Susan Powell I think that's in revalue and or your son as the case may be well it just doesn't happen that often I mean we know where we stand we sleep well at night later a daring plan to learn the truth about Susan's disappearance Sh- going into the lion's den when dateline continues the thing about Pam is the chart-topping podcast series from Dateline and Keith Morrison. This is a strange story a strange story and a career Stephen Pals House and then this is divided to family's bitterly it's put deep suspicions on Susan's husband we've got August two thousand eleven more than a year and a half after Susan disappeared citing our video as evidence investigators obtained a warrant to sir the thing about paths she called the shots we did josh make of this openness if I can put it that way presumably about it at one point but he but he seemed grandsons but it was all dispelled within a week after Josh arrived with the Boys Steve claimed he did probe Josh About Susan's disappearance even close Steve they discovered kept a trove of videos they've never been shown a network tv before but that was about to change along with just about everything coming Steve Powell I have an information and investment accounts so you're thinking that she may have embezzled and I'm I'm thinking it's a possibility they've discovered it yet I don't know sucrets obsession the videos never seen on network television before this was her father-in-law choose cringing inside St Paul's home and there they found Susan's journals pages filled with normal teenage angst nothing whatever to asked abused by her parents police never found any evidence of that at all those journals not all they found not talk with Susan about sex and anything else strike you is that you talked to your daughter-in-law about say it's very odd very odd but she was very open about things like that detective Maxwell had been trying to get his hands on Susan's high school journals from luntz hoping they would provide a clue to finding her nothing never seen on network television before evidence of a strange obsession says totally creeped out by my dad and ominous new evidence feet toasty over some stimulation and God work in Steve's home yeah that was huge huge because that's what got us inside the house if we didn't have that I don't there's no my interview with Steve Aired on the today show and I didn't know it back then but that video we shot crew what maxwell suspected the journals from Susan herself something happens to me or my family are all of us will help solve the mystery here again Keith Morrison Susan too much getting somewhere coming up talked with Susan about sex and and anything else it strike you is that you talk to your daughter-in-law Bucks I just WanNa get you in that dress sometimes Susan's seemed to play alarm to something good for the video cameras I'll do this they range from the mundane I got you the second season last year season for your birthday that's right too creepy she could plainly see there was something deeply off kilter about Steve Fouls behavior toward his daughter in law see I married good. He suspected Josh brought them to Steve's place but we didn't have enough probable cause or evidence to say that these journals were inside our interview that Susan came on to him but the video showed was something else entirely he was obsessed with her and simply left simply left her husband quickly came under suspicion she was so pretty today when she came over the doesn't begin describing just had probably the most roddy experience of having my entire life captured conversation Steve Head with Susan in his car he didn't realize though he put the lens cap on his camcorder left it running probably WanNa hear it it was an out I think for him to display his love for another yeah no kidding wow he even recorded music about her I can love you in a c Susan fewing hills got cold and I offered to rub her the last year and a half in the league after waxing no hair other times she seemed to have no idea her father in law was stalking her. Josh was sitting across the room on the chair and he wasn't always watching so I took liberties did watch Steve had claimed her father-in-law and she was trying to put on a good face even as she was cringing inside what is just the sick weird twisted fantasy that I don't even understand how people can get to that place dad but he he allowed my dad back in Steve Assured Josh it was William legs he recalled the time he gave her that massage experience on the cows I loved her now he openly despises her was the automotive Steve added in another the reality two years I don't think Susan is upset at me he was still convinced Susan secretly loved him they were all hiking pasture in the video steve followed Susan around with a camera your hand luther box that way I can love you awful so awful I don't creation I have clean legs and of course she's GonNa tell other people Susan told Josh about Steve's appropriate attention and Josh was furious Jennifer said Susan was an innocent Steve a sick man determined to see for or simply didn't exist that time Susan showed off her wax flakes she trained in cosmetology and so that was like a focus of her life it was like look this is Michael Aw Susan's fault and apparently Josh believed in Steve wrote in his journal Josh seemed upset with me for a while after I told her mm-hmm I don't know her father in law under scrutiny to strike you as odd that you talked to your daughter-in-law about sick it's very odd now the poor Susan trapped in a sick triangle the father and a son and they should just be the daughter-in-law that many children that's that's about it but it turned out steve wasn't the only one recording things coming up dr her private pain there's definitely domestic abuse in that marriage Susan Christmas but now we know something else newly released evidence that shows Susan had been doing newly released evidence from Susan herself. I'm trying to deal with forgiving my father-in-law Susan hated him with a passion personal writings She has totally creeped out by my dad she talked to you about definitely and when your sister Jennifer told us Susan felt trapped this life in her journal Susan made it clear Steve Powell creek turned out. I'm trying to deal with forgiving my father-in-law of what he said done I four broken up that I'll go live with him wow but even Susan had no idea how deep seated Steve's infatuation word for fingernail toenail clippings all very creepy but not criminal and well Steve's behavior certainly it so much chipped Susan and Josh Powell's marriage was captured on video with Steve Powell obsessively documenting is own perversions this is as I try he continues to reoffend which makes it even more difficult I'm to the point where if I had for it would bristle whenever I know Josh's talking to his dad else when detective Maxwell Watch the tape secret documenting of her own journals emails messages to friends a detailed record of her concerns and fears about the men in her add Susan's best friend. QC new or true feelings Steve Seem to think that Susan was terribly attracted to him that there was a reciprocal clearly I feel so blind naive and foolish Josh stopped going to church couldn't seem to hold down a job but he did everything he could to controls Susan even though she was the main breadwinner he insisted on managing their money save told her that it was too expensive to have TV relationship there that's what he told people yeah Steve was a very diluted if he thought that because Susan hated him with a passion Susan Thought Steve was determined to come between her and Josh Susan would tell me now his dad is trying to break up because someone has sick twisted mind he thinks that little sick things that Steve Collective Susan's like are tampons and pubic hair and her garments in her underwear I mean all the way down dad want out of this besides Susan of course you know that obsession with Susan it it's she wasn't there but that was part of his player by for all their suspicion they still needed proof detective spoke to a long list of people including Josh's how dangerous it was this from Susan's facebook message to a friend he is mainly emotionally verbally and financially abusive basically troubled Susan newly released evidence shows she found Josh's behavior even more troubling I can't believe our marriage deteriorated so quick become when police raided his house they didn't just find videos they found trophies cryptic often elaine and she did it she did it and after a few months of that myself and some of our other friends convinced her to stop because we told her I'm a single mother with this guy that lives with me and dictates to me what I can do in my spare time and takes my paycheck and spends the money should have access together and I'm here to Prince and so I roles so he sold the second car and told her that he needed the van and so she needed to bike to work seven miles each way and it was down a very busy street without a bike take your dad's she did show off her legs wants it was a massage right than just being with every two hours I was extremely aroused I think you were somewhat by five due to her paycheck Josh managed all of that Josh would give her an allowance to go buy groceries but that allowance was maybe acceptable in one thousand nine hundred fifty s not in the two thousands when she was really strapped for cash said Kissy Susan Portrayal at work which would not be accessible to my husband the will was dated June twenty eight th two thousand eight nearly a year and a half before Susan disappeared yeah I di it may not be an accident even if it looks like one you're the margin she wrote I love you Charlie Brayden and I'm sorry you've seen how wrong you deposit box whose contents were secret for years but now we know what was in it codes crystal sparkly things inside rocks crystals in rocks eerily similar to the description her son Charlie gave in his interview was actually afraid that Josh might do something to her when dateline continues courage it with Josh but the more hostile Josh became the more Susan seemed determined to make things work I'm bothered that he's not going to church ride negative comments about me the church my family I think a lot because he's talking to his dad so often who truly thrives on negative and seems to be of her marriage to Josh but it turned out she didn't tell them everything to take a maxwell discovered that Susan kept a safety deposit box messed up our marriages I would never leave you win Susan's will became public and QC saw it I was shocked and he was to blame for Josh's behaviour anytime he's talking with his dad I'm irritated. He accidentally swears or slips now an inside it was a handwritten will chilling to read it now for Mine and my children's safety I feel the need to have in trip in the West Desert so we left about four in the afternoon and started driving South Josh got advice from some friend about a place where you can dig for g with the detective after Susan vanished an unwitting clue perhaps it was and then there were more in a safe she was very thoughtful that's when Susan began keeping a file folder at work titled Josh Issues and told a co worker if she ever went missing handed to the me secret video and growing fear making sure that if something happens to me or my family are all of us their relationship was structured as of the males the dominant female is beneath him privately Susan told her friend she believed St your financial abuse and then you also had verbal abuse where he would be little her and talk down to her in his opposite of everything I married but I'm willing to be patient even into the attorneys for him the Susan that's kind of like the analogy of how to boil a frog police file folder with letters issued written in one of those letters about six months before she disappeared Susan described a family camping I don't understand why she didn't tell me that she was actually afraid that Josh might do something to her earlier as their troubles were increasing Josh doubled her life insurance too in dollars Susan mentioned it to her friend Debbie Cole will I said that's just an enormous amount you're worth more dead than alive Edmon a bucket of cold water and gradually turned the heat up until they don't realize it and they're boiled and that's exactly what's happened to you and what way he's reading it was not okay how would you react to that be sensing she had to protect herself choosing also left this July twenty ninth two thousand eight to her friend Susan Powell seemed like an open book willing to share the ups and downs a video she recorded about a month after she wrote the wheel after she met with a divorce attorney covering all my bases making sure that have something happens to me or my family all of us that are assets are documented hope everything works out and we're all happy and happily ever after as much as possible once she asked her father chuck if he thought Josh was abusive I said well it's not hitting yours urge turn to take the boys and leave why didn't she debbie told us that Susan devoutly LDS felt forever admitted she really hung onto the idea that she was going to have any family when we get married we believe that we are going to be found rising Lee more reasonable Josh became affectionate this weeks before she vanished Josh said I love you as he dropped me off this morning is building this confidence within herself she wasn't being submissive to josh she was standing up for herself and apparently she believed it was worth thanks so maybe physically abusive at this point but it certainly emotionally abusive when Josh cancelled Susan Cellphone Chuck got her a new one and in an email to a friend things have totally changed mainly me having more of a backbone and in response to this Joshua's Sir Detective Maxwell found evidence he was actually planning something that had nothing whatever to do with love that same month Josh bought a roll of Tree Wrath Anna settlement torch veep cleaning supplies tools to make Susan disappear it's all kind of premeditated purchase place for time but in the year after Susan wrote the will she did get tougher I think the biggest change with Susan for she daily throughout the day since last Friday is all in my head then she disappeared and loved ones wonder the night before remember she had the pancakes Josh prepared and then complained to feeling tired when I heard Josh fixed them pancakes for for dinner us by that time according to her emails Susan was beginning to feel ill so the nausea I'm experiencing right now and and put the pancakes on each person's played and then cleaned up the dishes immediately afterwards I mean I just get chills drugged her poisoned her was some sort of a substance to find out they'd have to find her and they had at least an idea where to look research and searched that West Desert we didn't find her police needed help and Joshua's sister Jennifer came to them with an idea non for something else g odes the crystals in rocks both Charlie and Susan described all seem to fit by down my back I just I've seen how he treated her in the House I seen how much he cares to help with dishes or cooking or anything Mr Jennifer had grown close to Susan after the POWs moved to Utah and now suspicion surrounding Josh she felt she had to know what happened. China on network television the undercover plan to learn the truth is scary yeah to her sister-in-law she approached me and said hey what do you think about me wearing wire going to Steve's house and just to say not at all not at all absolutely not there was so out of character that it was just that was scary we have a suspicion of maybe he oh she two suspected Josh so she offered to meet with her brother confront him and where wire when she did it what was that like Josh Detective Maxwell liked the idea we're really hopeful that maybe by her catching josh off guard Jennifer asked Josh about the night before Susan disappeared and that was going into the lanston coming on so happy for the first the Josh talked over this is the first time this audio has been aired on broadcast TV wants Joshua joked at if you've ever murdered someone the perfect place to dump the body would be an abandoned mine in Utah Sprawling West desert the West Desert is and I am walking in who scary detective Maxwell set in the car just a few blocks away listening in as Jennifer living in their father Steve's house Jennifer went there knocked on the door so it was like you know fortress they're focusing up protecting Josh Oh really honestly that's what I want to go do was to try and get a confession josh yet he was surprisingly devoid of emotion even then which is disturbing to me I'm trying to get him to confess she asked him about his two day eight hundred mile drive in that rental car need it up to the point where I finally am I'm like just tell me where body is talked to sister harding I knew my dad had a volatile temper and I really didn't know what he was going to do so telling guilty he was telling her that his attorney told him that he can't talk to nobody about this case she's they asked direct questions to Josh and she just knew Josh did it that he could

Keith Morrison Susan Charles Josh Josh Josh Detective Maxwell Susan Powell Josh Josh Josh Powell Josh Self Steve Jennifer Kef Susan Cell Phones Susan fewing hills Susan Christmas Giovanna owings Steve Powell Church of Jesus Christ Utah Charlie Steve Shot
Bonus: Project Sunlight

Cold

55:38 min | 10 months ago

Bonus: Project Sunlight

"This podcast discusses domestic violence criminal behavior murder and adult themes while not explicit listener discretion is advised east. Josh Powell went to court in Tacoma Washington on the first day of February two thousand twelve. He wore a jacket a blue shirt and tie and carried crumpled Brown paper sack from Fedex. Office copy centre. It contained type statement for the court. This is what Josh wrote. Having having demonstrated my fitness as a parent it is time for my son to come home. Josh lost custody of his sons Charlie and Brayden four months surly after police raided the South Hill home. He shared with his father. Detectives were looking for evidence related to the unsolved disappearance of Josh's wife Susan Instead they'd found his father stash of voyeur videos. I was living with him at the time. However within the first month I established my own home and I have consistently proven my fitness a stable and loving parent in court joshes? Che's Attorney Jeff Bassett told Judge Katherine Nelson. His client had done everything she had asked of him. He has been nothing if If not cooperatives to the entire Everything that's been asked him in this case Josh had even gone so far as to endure a psychological evaluation. I have proven myself if it and loving father who provides a stable home even in the face of great adversity not so fast assistant Washington Attorney General. John Long told told the court police. In West Valley City Utah had just shared concerning new evidence based on some information that's been provided by a criminal investigation Judge overseeing the criminal investigation I think it's clear From that court order that these can be linked to Mister Powell no one came right out and set it in. Open court that day but the evidence in question was a set of nearly four hundred pornographic images they were digital digital files. Most of them small thumbnails the majority were cartoons showing characters from animated TV series often depicting children and adults all together detectives and the FBI had found those thumbnails on a computer. Taken out of Josh and Susan Powell's House in Utah the day after after she disappeared in December of two thousand nine in court documents. Police said the images belonged to Josh. This is a bonus episode of Cold Project Sunlight. I'm Dave Collie back after a word from our sponsors. Let's go back again to judge Katherine Nelson's Chambers in Pierce County Superior Court on February first two thousand twelve Josh Powell's also attorney Jeff Bassett pushed back against the claim of new evidence against his client. He wondered why detectives were only then raising the issue. If these cartoon pictures were so bad he asked. Why hadn't police just arrested Josh? When they had I found them? And I just think that we are allowing ourselves to be manipulated some outside sources on this case without cause detective. LS Maxwell the lead investigator on the Susan Powell case was not in court that day but he told hold me. He had tried to secure charges against Josh on those images. Prosecutors would not go for it sure a lot of people were wondering going okay. We'll they've had this for several years but now they're going to introduce it now with. That's why police also considered the images. Contraband illegal to possess or view and so we had to go through the courts here and they made an exception to release the evidence to the state of Washington for Review Purposes Sa's and it was very specific to where only the judge and the attorney and the social workers and it was a small scope scope and I think one detective. The judge's order did not allow Josh to see the images but it did grant permission for forensic psychologist James Manley to review them. The overall tone of these were incestuous James had already delivered a report about Joshua's parenting capacity to the court in Washington after viewing viewing the images. He had new concerns so James Author to follow up. I went down to the flu station. Talked with the garden. headlight them mm-hmm. And the detective on the attorney. General decided didn't take much to decide but we entered a request or a petition to the court for psychosexual evaluation on the one side judge Nelson had josh. Making the case for reunification on the other side stood police prosecutors a psychologist all arguing. Josh might not be safe father based on these thumbnail images of cartoon incest pornography Josh for his part seemed to make vague reference to the pictures in that typed statement to the court that day he wrote. I have recently only heard rumblings that some people are dipping deep down to the bottom of the barrel in a desperate effort to find and manufacturer fault with me due to their attitudes. The word manufacturer there is significant. Josh seemed to imply that he believed police had fabricated the new evidence. His protest did not sway the judge she told Josh he was not getting his boys. Back that day. Instead Judge Nelson ordered Josh to take the psycho sexual evaluation. You know what happened next days after this court hearing Josh murdered his sons and killed himself self when he was not only not given custody but then the stipulations that they put on a most of the cycle sexual some other things I think he kinda cracked him is psycho sexual. LECTU evaluation was into the road for him because with the revelation that you know he s- pictures on his computer. And you know it's explicit Lissette and it's it's of concern it's very very disturbing and so that was something else that they knew about it and that was found by the West Valley Police on his computer Eh. I can now tell you. It wasn't Josh's computer. I've discovered that the computering question belonged to Susan. Let's step backward in time time to examine how I made this discovery and what it means about ownership of those pornographic images. Susan Powell sent an email mail to an old friend on Christmas Eve. Two thousand eight a little less than a year before her disappearance in it she vented about the rocky state of her marriage expressing pressing despair over its dysfunction. She also wrote that. Josh did not allow her to go online with his computers. I love facebook and Josh is still convinced. vinced using it or anything else on the web automatically uploads evil and he doesn't trust me with most of his computers. The only Computer Josh Allowed Susan to use at home was as a compaq brand. I pack by then a nine year old model in a July two thousand nine facebook message. She told another old friend. The Compaq computer was not all that useful. The crappy computer I have access to at home is so old and slow that I literally log into facebook book walkaway Click Profile walkaway because it takes so long to load Josh on the other hand used multiple computers leaders. He had built a custom tower. Complete with a raid array in two thousand seven. Susan mentioned that machine in July two thousand eight video documenting. The family's he's assets. Here's the kind of pimping out stuff. He's done to his computer. He built it himself. Josh also had a work issued laptop top that he often used around the house but he didn't seem to think his wife had much need for a computer of her own. The control that Josh Hanover her. He wouldn't let her do certain things in July two thousand nine email. Susan told her work friend. Linda Bagley the only task ask Josh allowed her to use a computer for was tracking her spending having every year down to the penny of totals of each category is a priority with my husband. And and not me for years. Josh tasked Susan with scanning his documents. Susan told Linda Doing Josh's data entry was a waste of time. Nine she wrote. I enter each receipt if it was clothing for Josh clothing for Susan Accessories for Susan. Toiletries for Susan Shoes. Cosmetics cosmetics groceries broken down to listing each item or describing if it was produced frozen shelf. Stable Foods incidentals knows like batteries. Or non consumables we categorize diapers versus wipes versus diaper ointment versus children's clothing in children's books children's toys children's movies etc etc.. Susan Begged Josh for a better computer throughout two thousand nine. He kept telling her he would build her one but never did it was always the best for him and the least they could do for her but yet she owned as much more income than he did. Finally at the end of August the Compaq ipaq died. Susan felt cut off from her friends and family and she resorted in order to sneaking onto facebook at the office she told a co worker in an email. She feared those Internet. Sessions might cost her her job. I just I found out they might be doing final warnings and firing people for using non work related websites. I value my job more than email. I guess first. Let's go back to the stone age of cellphones. The solution to this problem had been staring Susan in the face for months. She knew of a family that had shut down an in home business earlier earlier in the year. That family owned several computers. They no longer needed. Susan decided to buy one without telling Josh that presented a new problem though at that time. Josh and Susan had only one car she didn't get the car it was him unless he didn't have the day off. Maybe or something. It was always him so on. September eighteenth two thousand nine. Susan asked her daycare provider. Debbie Caldwell to swing by in her Mazda Miata when Debbie showed up. Susan plopped down into the passenger seat and told Debbie where to go that night. Susan bought a computer of her own for a hundred bucks in the interest of full disclosure. I should mention I know who sold Susan that computer at this time. I'm opting not to report that detail. Josh flipped out when he found out about Susan's purchase stock. Stop immediately pounced on the computer. I told him it was my computer and not to mess with it. The computer was ADEL OPT TO PLEX G. X Two seventy far from top the line but Susan told her co workers in this email that it was enough. It does what I need. And that's all I care about explained I wanted to do facebook book. Hotmail PBS DOT Org and let the kids watch movies in such. Susan didn't want her computer downstairs in the office with Josh's instead she cleared space in a small upstairs bedroom and that is exactly where West Valley city police. Detectives founded less than three months later. When they entered the house with the search warrant? The Dell computer ended up at the FBI's Inter Mountain West West regional computer forensics lab along with all of the rest of the digital evidence in the Powell case. I talked about the. NFL's work in episode twelve as a refresher though here's FBI supervisory special agent Chaney town to software reuse goes in and retrieves deleted files files at Aaron in this so-called like on allocated space. The computer knows can use now. And so we're able to pull stuff that's deleted and things like that. That's exactly where investigators found almost almost all of the cartoon pornography in unallocated space on the Dell Computer's hard drive the images had been deleted. Likely likely as part of an automatic purge of Web Browser cache files in other words someone had visited a website hosting the images but had probably not explicitly downloaded copies of them. Typically computer files carry METADATA. The can tell you things like when the file was created commodified or last accessed for Anzac. Examiners can use that Meta data to determine when files were downloaded from the Internet but that's not always the case with deleted files. They are often stripped of metadata. This presented a problem for West Valley Police when they and the FBI discovered the cartoon incest pornography in two thousand ten. They opened a new case in the hopes of securing Federal Federal Child Pornography Charges Against Josh police records show a detective screened the case with an assistant. US Attorney but the USA refused to charge pointing out. Police could not prove Josh was the person who had accessed the explicit cartoons the police FBI and prosecutors all missed something something that I recently discovered a time stamp camp showing win at least some of those cartoon porn images were accessed. Need to take a second and explain how hi discovered this when the are CFL finished its work on the Dell computer's hard drive. It turned over copies of its findings to West Valley Police. We provide had an archive of all of the work that we do. We also generate a digital report for them. BET report will have all of the files that were deemed pertinent deemed pertinent. That means the report only included copies of a subset of all of the files found by the forensic software. Swear now I have a copy of this report reviewing it. I discovered that one of the explicit cartoons still held Mehdat it showed the image had last been accessed on March twentieth of two thousand nine. That is six months before the Dell desktop ever entered the Powell house. That's not all the report. Also included a database indicating all of the files that the forensic earns a software had been able to see it did not include copies of every file but you can use the database to see stuff like names sizes Meta data data and the location where the file had been stored on the file systems directory. I know this is all really dull but just stick with me here. Knowing the date and time from the Meta data on that one cartoon image I was able to find references in the database to several Internet cookie files from from cartoon pornography websites they were created just before one a M On march twenty. Second two thousand nine again six months before the Dell computer ever entered the Powell House the prior owner had failed to wipe the hard drive when sewing it to Susan. This fact carries significant implications. It means neither. Neither Josh nor Susan could have been the person who downloaded the cartoon pornography and because of that. The judge's order the Josh undergo a psycho sexual evaluation and order. That many people close to the case say broke Josh just days before the murder suicide was was based on flawed information. Josh was in a hurry it was February. Third Two thousand nine. He and Susan were making final preparations for a vacation into Washington. They planned to spend the better part of a month visiting their families and old friends in the state where they had first met and fallen in love before leaving their home in Utah. Josh wanted to finalize the legal trust he'd been working on with an attorney he was becoming frustrated though because the lawyer was not responding to his messages he complained to Susan about it. In this email I can make a generic trust with that software program just to have something done before leaving leaving Susan replied with an email of her own urging her husband to worry about it later seriously push for generic now. We don't meet him delaying our entire vacation. The more practical concerns were four fronton. Susan's mind. She needed to find someone to watch their pet parrot. Try while they were gone though. Susan proctor sister-in-law Jennifer Graves into serving as the bird babysitting but josh just couldn't wouldn't shake his fixation with the trust. Let's plan to go over the language in detail. While driving the bird to Jenny's Susan made clear she wanted this legal stuff off of Josh's plate as soon as possible. I'm really really obsessed with the idea of leaving Thursday early a m to arrive by dinner. So if that trust works good that looming fifteen hour drive. Didn't seem to concern Josh much. I also need to work on backing up data. I think I finally have a workable plan but take time to process the files. I better start the process before leaving for Jenny's several months earlier josh had purchased a one terabyte Western digital brand my I book world edition. External hard drive. He kept it in his basement office connected to their home network by way of an Ethernet cable. Susan even mentioned that hard drive in the video. She made documenting the family's assets in July of two thousand eight. This is some type of backup device says has wd on this side like shares the Information Somehow Josh come up with a method for sinking copies of his files from in each of his computers to the external hard drive over the home network West Valley Police. Detectives took the my book World Edition hard-drive when they raided Josh and Susan's home with a search warrant. The day after she disappeared the same day they took Susan's Dell desktop like the Dell. The my book world addition hard drive ended up at the RCAF L. But investigators couldn't manage to get anything off of it Joshua's network backup was locked with encryption that encrypted hard drive is one of the last persisting mysteries in in the Powell case and for the first time we have a clue as to what secrets it might hold. Uh Uh UH UH earlier in this episode. I mentioned Josh's Home Built Computer Tower. It's the one with the ray that was in the basement office of this Era Circle House House. I think there's like five hard drives something about during raids. There's those for all the computer geeks again that is Susan's sends voice from the video. She made documenting her assets. In the summer of two thousand eight Josh's raid array computer also ended up at the FBI. Computer lab after after Susan disappeared. But it didn't appear to hold much. In the way of evidence investigators flagged some family photos on it as well as a single file named Vivey DB one network encrypted dot T. D. B.. I have a copy of this file. At first I couldn't make much of it. I didn't recognize the file. Format a little googling suggested it was probably probably some kind of database but without knowing what program created it there was little chance of viewing it. Maybe I figured something might show up if I tried to open the file as text when I did. It revealed a single extremely long line of letters numbers numbers and foreign language symbols almost incomprehensible some dictionary words and even short phrases. I did jump out. But those foreign characters made it impossible to get a clean read scrolling. What seemed endlessly toward the right? My is started to lose focus. That's when it happened. A pattern began to emerge. The random placement of these foreign language. Characters was not actually random on a hunch I replaced all of those foreign characters with line breaks that unreadable string of long text transformed into a neat list scrolling vertically then I could see the list I was roughly seventy thousand lines. Long Beach Line was a discreet reference to an individual file all sorts of files. Els Is all thanks to me trying to save them. These were file paths the very first line read vice versa. Sir Synchronization tracking vice versa. Is a file backup APP. There's some tapes and DVD's and stuff have to back up all the Computer Geek of our family photos and financial information. I soon learned that the file the extension was short for tracking database. So the file I was looking at was how vice versa kept. Track of which items to synchronize is. It was a log of what was copied from where to where the source where the original files were copied from and the target where they were copied to were both represented in the list looking through the database. I could see the source was called temp backup unorganized the target volume carried the name my book world my Folk Work World addition. I think that's the stuff looking at earlier that saves information that means the vice versa. Database file is very likely the table of contents to Josh is encrypted hard drive a few takeaways were evident when I started studying the vice. I database file. Josh tended to keep his documents well organized in a series of nested folders. They had orderly names like like business. Education finances insurance housing and so on each individual file carried a descriptive name. Uh many of the files and folders also included exact dates in their names. The formatting was always the same four digit year two who digit month two digit day. Josh's documents dated as far back as the early nineties when he was a teenager. The most recent files dated to September of two thousand nine three months before Susan's disappearance perhaps most important. I recognized some of the files in fact I already had copies of some of them. Like Josh's audio journals started working on my computer it again. I pretty much made my computer for every aspect of my life right now. Mike copies of Josh's journals came from hard drives West Valley. Police seized from Steve Powell's House and Josh safe deposit box in Washington in two thousand eleven. Today I got up and started working on the computer better. Better get windows. Ninety eight stalled on it scanner. So how did Josh have copies of those files in Washington in two thousand and eleven. If police had seized all of his digital data from this Era Circle House in Utah right after Susan disappeared in two thousand. Nine technology stuff is particularly Allie. Eric to me. The simple answer is offsite backups. So where did Josh Stash his offsite copy Eh. Back to those emails. Josh and Susan exchanged in February of two thousand nine before leaving on their road trip to Washington in one. Josh told Susan he wanted a backup of his computer done before their meeting with the attorney. Here's what he wrote. I really intend tend to fully back up the computer and bring a copy. No I can't say for sure but it's reasonable to believe Josh might placed this copy of his digital archive in a safe safe-deposit box were. Maybe he left it with a friend if so he could have retrieved it after Susan disappeared and carried it with him to Washington. Evidence exists to support this idea. As I just mentioned the Josh Powell Journal Files I received from West Valley City during my research. Search for cold came from devices. Police had seized in two thousand eleven but they line up with the vice versa database from two thousand nine nine. The folder structure on Josh's encrypted backup is almost identical to that of his archive as it appeared two years later they they both derived from the same original source. That discovery raised an interesting question. Could the digital data seized by by police in two thousand eleven. hold the key to unlocking the my book world hard drive from two thousand nine to find out I I would need the help of someone with access to all of the digital evidence. Can I bend the ear of homeowners out there for just a minute. I happen to be one and if you are you know how tough it is to find the right home insurance coverage even if your writes like mine have just been creeping up slowly over the years I get the idea that the insurance companies no. You don't WanNa go through all the hassle of comparison pricing and replacing placing. Your policy can really seem exhausting particularly this time of year. In December is one of the busiest months of the year. That's why policy genius reimagined the entire process so you you can get the right coverage at the best price. Here's how easy it is. I head to policy genius Dot Com and answer a few questions about yourself and your property then policy policy genius will compare your policy against options from top insurance to make sure that you're getting the right home insurance coverage at the best possible price. Listen to this this. They've saved their customers on average six hundred and ninety dollars per year. Doing just that whether you need home insurance for a new place or just want to re shop your current policy head head to policy genius Dot Com. Today you can get started on your smartphone right now policy genius when it comes to home insurance. It's nice to get it right at the start of October two thousand Thirteen Susan's Dad. Chuck Cox sent an email L. to West valley police. Detective Ellis Maxwell. A man named Richard Hickman from a company called decipher forensics had reached out to chuck offering to help get into Josh's encrypted hard drive I saw the new story about the hard drives being encrypted and the F. B. I.. Having a hard time being able to crack the encryption and I thought of the crypto currency mining machines that we had in our office that we also utilized for password breaking forensics from time to time and so I thought well it's reach out. Let's see if we can. Maybe just donate some time on our machine. Richard Co owned decipher with two other partners. Trent love of it and Mike Johnson. They had founded the firm in two thousand eleven. Decipher primarily was a computer forensic in cellphone forensic company. We would handle cases in in civil litigation work with law enforcement as well on anything from homicide cases two divorces sometimes everyone on the same and everything in between Intellectual Property Theft Employment Law aw civil litigation of all types that is Trent West Valley city had declared the Powell case cold five months earlier at trucks. Chuck's urging police reached out to decipher to see if they could help decrypt the my book. WORLD HARD-DRIVE I believe we've met with Detective Maxwell Very Nice Guy Very easy to work with is actually she very appreciative of our willingness to do this for free and try and move things along and get more answers Trent told. LS about the machines. They intended to use decipher report about fourteen grand into building them. They were both contained in milk crates. You just have this box is milk crate box and we. We actually took a piece of wood across the side of it to be able to kind of act is Like the shelf and then we just sat down these four really powerful graphics graphics cards that are just gaming graphics cards and Hook them up that way. These milk crates weren't much to look at but they were necessary. Because the rigs consumed a lot of power four and generated a great deal of heat. It required a full-size fan. Just to keep them cool. It generated enough heat in the winter the we would open up our windows and didn't have to turn on the furnace in our office. It literally heated aren't higher off. Smell US was impressed. He ran the idea up his chain of command and and received an okay from the deputy chief so in December of two thousand thirteen West Valley gave the decipher team. A copy of the my book. World drive the arrangement came with a condition decipher had to sign a non disclosure agreement. They were not allowed out to discuss their work. And we didn't talk about the fact that we were even doing it with anybody and the deal required that they report any discoveries to anything that we find program from West Valley City. You know when we originally started this anything we found was to go back to West Valley city and to go nowhere else. Confidentiality was not an issue for decipher. It was common practice active with almost every case they worked talking about a case especially on camera. Weird it's very weird Trenton. Richard are only discussing discussing this now because West Valley city released them from the NDA at colds request. My thanks to West Valley. For that. Trent Richard and Mike hooked up Josh's encrypted drive to their milk crate rig. They had decided to run. What's known as a dictionary attack against the encryption? Encryption we put together this strategy of combining a whole lot of password lists from previous data breaches and dumps. What's that had happened? Hackers will breach a company. They'll pull all their user names and passwords in the league that to the Internet and so all of those lists are publicly available label. And so we downloaded a lot of these lists of very common passwords and then we create our own big combined. Dictionary applied a whole bunch of rules to it to say you try the original password and then we're going to swap all the as with at symbols SS with dollar signs ease with threes is with ones ends are exclamations all of these different combinations and putting a one on the end putting a maybe combining passwords and it created this massive breath dictionary that we knew and in our software showed was gonNA take forever to get through but we thought why not. Let's give it a try. It didn't take long before decipher I for encountered some initial success. The tool they used for the dictionary attack came across a password. AP One one to four that. Ah It I don't know how I remember that but some things you just don't forget. AP One one to four. They plugged that six character string into the encrypted drive then attempted to access it. There was nothing there. The drive appeared to be empty with trip without getting really super technical. You can have multiple the layers of encryption. I will have more to say about this point in a bit but for now. It's enough to know that. This discovery meant decipher had to start all over again. They set the milk crate machines back to work. It ran for very long time. The code cracking software ripped through hundreds of millions then billions of possible awesome password permutations heat took its toll on the no create machines and they would run round the clock twenty four seven for months if not it close to two years before those things burn up and still didn't break. LS retired around that same time and different detective. David Greco took over as caretaker of the Powell case. Two Thousand Sixteen passed still no break in August of of two thousand seventeen. Detective Greco dropped in on the decipher office to check up on things. Richard and another member of their team. Keighley Richmond told him they he's still had the encrypted drive and were still working on it. They brought him up to speed on their early discovery in a sort of good news bad news kind of way. AP One one two four. That's what we have to give you. It means absolutely nothing. A couple months later in October of two thousand seventeen a private investigator working thing for Susan's parents called decipher to check in on things. Trent told the Pi Rosenquist. He didn't have much to say but he let at slip. They discovered a short password that didn't provide access to any files. It's really not a big deal. There's nothing here. Rose shared this information. I actually spoke to her on the phone on the night of October. Twenty fifth two thousand seventeen. She told me then. Decipher had decoded a first layer on Josh encrypted hard drive I contacted West Valley police who confirmed the general thrust of what rose had said so. I broke that story on the ten o'clock news that night. KSL radio producer. Dave colleague on the phone with US tonight with the latest of element and Dave. This has to do with a hard drive. It does Dave a company called wink with investigations is collaborating with Susan. Powell's parents chuck and Judy Cox and they're working with a UTAH. Company called Decipher Forensics Renzo. To try and gain access to copy of Josh Powell's hard-drive. I didn't understand thin. The decipher was working for West Valley. Not The KOCSIS. Fighting investigator Rose Winquist tells. KSL They're in need of more resources now to devote to the effort so reaching out to Amazon the Internet giant can use its cloud computing platform to speed up. If this process the following day rose made the rounds talking to other local and national media about the encryption. Hope Right now. Is this this computer. And the other computers that the police have calling it a potential breakthrough a private investigator hired by the parents of Susan. Cox Powell hopes remaining aning. hard-drive gives them the clues. They need the brass at West Valley city. We're not happy. It seemed to them that decipher had violated the nondisclosure disclosure agreement. I received a phone call from San Official West Valley city and wanting to know why the press was starting to camp out in the front of the doors. I said I have no idea what you're talking about. Trent figured it out and went to work attempting to limit. The damage violated the trust of another department in our industry. We're gets around pretty quick when in fact we didn't violate the trust someone else did but that damage was done. Obviously in trying to be cooperative we just did whatever West Valley City told us to do and they don't say anything we said. Okay we've been pretty good at that. So we thought West Valley city put out a statement. We just kept their mouth shut. That didn't keep transformed from blowing up dozens and dozens of phone calls probably from your the station as well and I had no comment. You just started hanging up on people. Because I had work to do and I wasn't getting it. Done the decipher team. Feared West Valley Alley would demand the encrypted drive back shutting down their effort but the city didn't do that and the situation did have a silver silver lining. The renewed interest in the Powell case started the team thinking about how to whittle down that giant dictionary into something more manageable accustomed dictionary to Josh alone. It's a much more personalized dictionary. Based on the information that we have about him and and so we can take all of his computer information and even entering manually information like his birthday his kids names. His kids birthdays family members and important life events in that kind of stuff. They could only build that custom dictionary if they had access to. Josh other unencrypted hard drives during the course of that week peak are former business partner. Johnson said I'm positive. There's more drives in this case. They just didn't give him to us. What if we took all of the drives and like Richard talked about created a dictionary of all the drives at aren't encrypted a few weeks after the leak detective Greco dropped in on the decipher office? Once again to remind Trent Trent Mike and Richard they were still bound by the nondisclosure agreement. The decipher team took that opportunity to ask for. Copies of all of the digital data from the Powell case West Valley City agreed in spite of the recent breach of trust and in two thousand eighteen the accounting accounting firm. I'd Bailey acquired decipher forensics. Trent brought the Powell drives with him to his brand new state of the art digital forensics lab the October two thousand seventeen leak had another unintended consequence. Rob Burton an expert and self described news. Junkie had followed reports about the Powell case from the beginning so it affected me very personally just like many of us here in Utah a nationally rob was paying attention when the Pi Rosenquist started doing news interviews about Josh is encrypted hard drive there are some local news media coverage judge of the encrypted hard drive. That had made the news here in Salt Lake City as well as some podcasts. It was Nancy Grace on her podcast crime stories. The show characterized the latest news as a quote big development and the most hopeful lead in the Powell case in years attentive. Rob Listened several times and as I heard the the digital forensic details. It just didn't quite lineup rob worked for a large corporate for employer in Salt Lake City as an information security analyst and digital forensics specialist. He had expertise in this field. She kind of glossed over it. I don't don't think she fully understood the details. The intricacies that were involved especially with West Valley City at one point a guest on the podcast mentioned there was nothing preventing police from making more copies of the encrypted hard drive and sharing those with other digital forensic experts that started rob thinking. I actually work in West Valley. My employer has a major office in West Valley and so hearing that I wonder I wonder if I could get involved with that rob headed over to West Valley Police headquarters on his lunch. Break One day actually very positive very favorable I asked them specifically for the detective involved in the case. He wasn't there at the time but I left him a message and then he called me back a few days later and met with me. Detective David Greco made a fresh copy of the encrypted. My Book World Hard-drive for Rob and delivered it to him at the start of January. Two thousand eighteen just like with decipher rob signed a nondisclosure agreement. He was gagged from talking about the project in fact as I started this project two years ago being under NDA. I knew. I just couldn't create a folder on my computer called Susan Powell project because as under NDA India and kind of had to keep it hidden and so named the folder on my computer project sunlight. Because I thought every good secret project has codename right like you see in movies and TV shows and I need aimed at project. Sunlight because sunlight is the best disinfectant. I think again West Valley City has granted rob released from that. NDA At colds request. I my thanks to the city for allowing rob to share his story and now that it's a little more out in the open. I'm very related to be able to talk about it. Once Robert obtained a copy of the encrypted hard drive he started tinkering he bought several computers secondhand and set them up to run a password cracking program. I basically built a small computer lab out of extra computers. I had and that I've been able to acquire wire with some other video cards and then just running the software against it it's called Password and it's commercially available and it's what a law enforcement agency agency is also use password began plugging every possible password into the drive one by one as fast as it could. This is what's known as a brute force. I attack a different approach from the dictionary attack. The decipher team had I employed. There's a couple of different strategies when it comes to the corruption but brute force is kind of the last last effort really the last ditch effort really. After several of the easier things have been exhausted. You're really left with brute force and that's where you're basically just trying combinations of letters numbers characters. Try to guess password guessing pass wear had only been running for a handful of weeks. When something unexpected happened? One morning I came in and looked at that And it said Password found one and I thought Oh. Is that a bug. Was that real and sure enough. Yeah no it really did. Find One Password A.. P. One one to four the same password. The decipher team had discovered. But we mounted that and it's blank. There's no data there earlier. I mentioned I would get back to the idea of this. Being in outer layer of encryption think of it as a box within a box rob explained the AP one one to four password was the key to open the outer box. There's a process process known as plausible deniability if someone was caught and had to give up the password to drive by law enforcement law enforcement arrest a suspect and convinces them to give up a password to the drive. They could say okay. Well my password is. Here's my password law enforcement. I don't think so great. We've got the passenger the drive we can decrypt it. They can decrypt that out or partition and it can be totally empty and they think Oh. There's nothing here. Cracking the outer outer partition password brings them no closer to discovering the hidden partition. Password is a whole different password. There's the outer password and there's enter password so it's starting over and it's a much different layer of complexity. AP One one to four isn't very secure. As far as passwords go nowadays many websites sites would refuse to let you use it. Because it's not long enough doesn't include special characters and uses only lower case letters Richard Hickman. And Trent Brent Levin told me it's likely the Password Josh used on the hidden partition if a hidden partition even exists is much more complex. There might not even be a the second layer it could just be. We cracked that top coat and it was an empty hard-drive possibility. We had no idea so we'd like to think that there's something else to go after the vice versa. Pro Database log. I talked about earlier suggests there probably is something to go after but the only way to know for sure our is to either crack the second password or run the brute force attack until the end of time no encryption is bulletproof but if you can delay the amount of time it takes then becomes improbable the way you increase. The amount of time it takes is by using a long strong password. Josh did provide police with a password for one of his computers. In Two thousand eleven it consisted of his birthdate his full name his social social security number his user account name and a string of what appear to be random letters and numbers. It's fifty nine. Characters including upper and lower case letters numbers as well as hyphens slashes and parentheses however many characters long it may be exponentially exponentially increases the complexity and the length that a takes West Valley. Police were sifting through the first round round of digital data seized from the Sarah Circle House in the days after Susan disappeared when in March of two thousand ten Josh Powell's attorney Scott Williams sent within an email Williams asked for the return of Josh's computers and hard drives the sergeant in charge of West Valley's major major crimes unit told Williams. That was not going to happen. But the sergeant said if Josh had a particular file in mind detectives could try to find it for him. That would go easier. He added if Josh would cough up his password. Josh claimed he could not remember the password in spite of that Josh emailed over his file wishlist a few days later at the top of the list where his family photos. Here's what he wrote. In his email on the white hard-drive most of it will be in the folder called photos or photos and videos or similar naming. If possible. Please all photos audio and video files you and find there will be some hundreds of gigabytes in total. The white hard-drive he's talking about is the encrypted. My Book World Drive everything that can be released from. The White Western digital drive would be greatly appreciated. Josh called the photos and videos of quote UN replaceable even though he already had copies of them safe safe and sound in Washington. Is it possible then that this request to police was just a ruse away of finding out if they had managed to break into his encrypted archive a bit earlier I described how I compared the vice versa. Pro Database to the digital evidence seized by police in in two thousand eleven and discovered they lined up but there were a few conspicuous omissions from the two thousand eleven data files with names like g mail email account INFO and encryption. Instructions were missing. This suggests that at some point after Susan's disappearance Josh performed an audit of his own files and deleted anything that might give away way. His passwords in a more curious omission josh appeared to have deleted any file that showed he wants owned a set of rigid brand power. Howard tools paperwork for all of his other tools was still present but not the rigid tools? It's not clear why he did that back to that. Email Josh sent police. He told them he also wanted a complete copy of his work. Issued Laptop and possible. Please find the image that is displayed on the desktop included. We're just photograph the computer with the desktop pitcher showing to to try as a memory aid a memory aid to what remember his password. Kaley Richmond a member of the digital. Forensics is team at Bailey recovered Josh's desktop at colds request. The photo was not what I expected. It's just a stock doc. Image of a chameleon. Whatever it might have meant to Josh? I can't say but I can say this this after all of this time spent analyzing the digital data and searching for clues. It's clear Josh Powell was not some computer genius. He created some websites. There's eight year olds at create websites. And they're not prodigies. Anyone can get a book and create a website. It's just sitting down and going through the book. Josh did did have some aptitude when it came to tech. He wasn't really the smartest but he certainly utilized. Whatever was available time he could run a database? But cryptography fifty was not his specialty. He was no hacker. There's not that many true hackers in the world from a percentage standpoint but if you work in technology goes people. Think you're a hacker. Just not the case. True Crypt the program. Josh used to encrypt the my book. World hard-drive was available for free on the Internet in two thousand nine. You didn't have to be the smartest or the most technical savvy you can just download it and use it. True Crypt is just as strong today. as it was a decade ago there is no simple shortcut. Were back door to discovering Josh's password fist because of resources on technology technology are a little bit better today. Doesn't change the fact that that encryption in the first place was top notch. And that it's still going to take that many permutations to get through it the even if investigators someday make it into the drive they will have to contend with the fact that vice versa. Pro The APP Josh used to backup a cup files to the my book world drive also applied its own layer of encryption. You Hook it up to your home. Router you backup several computers. Josh was very meticulous. It sounds like in doing that. This is how digital forensics works. It is a constant process of coming up against hurdles and finding ways to overcome them some solutions technical. Some are rooted in human nature. L. Care who. You are the Christians. Not Easy or fast and at this point with Josh Michael and Steve Powell all dead. There's no expectation on the part of law enforcement that encrypting the my book world drive will lead to anyone being held accountable for what happened to Susan but there is hope that some small clue you might lead police to Susan's body. If it were my daughter I'd go to Earth just like the Cox family has done for years now to make sure I exhausted every avenue possible. If that were my daughter that is why this effort continues everything that we've done this. Everyone that's participated in helping this no has been compensated for it at all. It's just to try and help the Cox family as much as possible in any way that we can trend. Love it and Kaley Richmond. Bailey along with Richard Hickman Mike Johnson and the rest of their old decipher forensics in sixteen are still brainstorming. New Approaches I would love to see someone else able to do it. If they know a hacker out there that knows how to get into true crypt. I'd love an introduction actual in Rob Burton now part of the effort is providing his time and insight to project. Some light is a corporate investigator. I've got extra a time on my hands. I'm not constrained by international terrorist cases or or other criminal cases that tie up law enforcement resources and so. I have a little extra time that I can do about this. I think it's worth it. I want to continue. I wanted to throw additional resources at it and as technology improves software gets splitter. Herbert gets better. We'll get there eventually with the uppermost Ryan if Susan story sounds familiar earlier in your own life in other words if you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse in any form. Please get immediate help in the. US support is a phone. Call Away at the national domestic violence hotline at one eight hundred seven nine seven two three three or online online at www dot the hotline dot. Org if you would like to support cold please subscribe in your podcast App of choice and considered leaving us a rating or review. All of those help us reach new listeners. You can also find us on facebook instagram and twitter at the cold podcast and we have a website with articles pictures and video the cold podcast dot com. Michael Bond Miller composed the music for cold old except for the guitar stuff. That was me the case podcasts team includes too many people to name here but my special. Thanks to our leader Cheryl Sara Worsley to our TV producer. Fairmont to our radio producer Becky Bruce Digital Specialist Josh Chilton and my fellow podcast producers Nina Internist and Danielle prager. Cold is a production of K._S._l.. podcasts thank you for listening.

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Ep - 157 - PHIL KEOGHAN, HOST OF AMAZING RACE

Reality Life with Kate Casey

1:06:58 hr | 1 year ago

Ep - 157 - PHIL KEOGHAN, HOST OF AMAZING RACE

"Amazing cake JC, welcome back to another episode of reality life with Casey, again, I hope that you guys have been having a great week the other night, I was up late watching American idol and crying my face off. This season is really good. Now, forget about the fact that Evelyn from ninety day fiance is a contestant on the show. Nothing's changed. I still hate her. But there are a couple of other contestants that are so good. And you note, sometimes it shows a little hard for me to watch. If the people have a terrible singing voice, but I'm telling you this season there nail in it. First of all there's all a hundred who's a musical genius self taught for years ago can play the guitar lake. He's been playing for twenty seven years and a beautiful beautiful voice. And he's this soft spoken, very sweet unassuming person who was the dishwasher up until he tried out for the show. You have Dimitrius who's basically a male beyond say, he sang with Lukas Graham, and I was basically on the floor crying. And then there is the delight of Jeremiah Lloyd Harmon who is a musical teacher twenty six years old from Maryland. He sang time after time by Cyndi Lauper, which basically is one of the greatest songs ever. Let me just give you a little a little piece of it. And this has. Ching through. Those one ring. These. Okay. I mean, I lost my mind. My husband was out of town. So he wasn't there to judge me the kids were all asleep. And then I looked through YouTube videos of both of them for a good extra half hour. I could barely keep my eyeballs open when the baby woke up in the middle of the night. I don't even I don't even know what I fed her. I've may have been coke zero. I don't know. But I'm telling you, you've gotta checkout American idol. Unbelievable. This week's episode. I love first of all Phil Cogan has been the host of amazing race since two thousand one I can't even get over how well produced the show is they received so many words and deserve every single one of them what they have to do to make this show happen is mind boggling in it really is above all of the other competition shows, maybe not survivor, but. It is an unbelievable show. And what a nice guy, can you? Imagine. The life experiences experiences that he's had traveling all over the world. I'd like to also add I would be terrible on that show. I'm the pickiest eater. Like one of my supposed to do in Asia. When I eat gluten free. I mean like come on. Also could never have my husband run with me. I've said this before I know that we would be void the whole time. 'cause we argue when we drive to Los Angeles. I mean, it was just a nightmare, and I'm also terrible with directions. So if you're an amazing race lover, you're going to love this interview with him, Kimberly and Katie from date with dateline or so funny, and I made them watch selling sunset on Netflix. If you love real estate shows, this is right up your alley, and there's so much to unpack with the show. So get on that flex right now and start watching episodes. I promise you you will find yourself hours later still watching them and then Darren car. Is like Andy Cohen's right hand lady. She does everything she used to be as assistant, and she's super dialed into the network there, and does a bunch of very cool things. She's also the host of martinis and murders on oxygen. So she loves true crime. Just like you guys. Do I asked her to watch the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, which is also on that flicks? It's difficult to watch your apparent. But like, I always say this stuff is important for us to watch. So we can all just remind each other the importance of protecting all kids. Anyway, this is a great episode. I'm so excited for you to listen. And I'm hoping again that you've had time to watch some great TV shows this week, by the way, I did end up watching the whole boy band con on YouTube premium, I want you guys to also listen or to watch it because there's a lot to unpack that too. Oh, and one more thing I am just finished with ladies who punch, which is that book about the view. And we're gonna do a Facebook live in the reality life with Casey group on Sunday and talk about that book because there's so much to discuss. So here we go. Do you wanna look next level will take coloring your hair at home to the nets level with Madison Reed you deserve. Gorgeous professional hair-color delivered to your door for less than twenty five dollars. See for decades women have had just two options for colouring their hair. They can have an outdated at home color or they can find the time and have enough money to expensive salon who many of Madison. Reads clients comment on how their new hair has not only improved their lives for the better. They love the results. They've got this gorgeous, shiny multidimensional, really, healthy looking hair. And this is great covering game changing color that you can do at home and look as if you just came from the salon. What makes Madison reads color, so unique is that it's crafted by master colorist who blend nuances of light dark cool and warm to create over forty five gorgeous, multi, tonal shades. You can find your perfect shade at Madison. Dash Reed dot com. So reality life, Casey listeners get ten percent off plus free shipping on their first color kit with code reality. That's code reality. The amazing race is back. With yet. Another exciting season of teams of two dashing between international checkpoints win the much sought after one million dollar prize. It's premiering April seventeenth. So Mark your calendars. Phil Cogan has been over a hundred countries around the world as host producer, author motivational speaker end cyclist, he's been hosting the show since two thousand one Phil welcome to the show like you. So tell me a little bit about how you got this job because everyone believes to be the best job in the entire world. Well, I'm not going to disagree with that. I think I still won the lottery when I got this job. I hit I hit hosted a show for CBS back in nineteen ninety nine. It was a special, and I guess I was on the radar or CBS. And then it was being considered for survive with Jeff Probst, and I was back on the radar there. And then I got shortlisted again for amazing race. And there were few different shows going on at that time. There was a show called Guinness Book of world records that that the network was doing the networks really starting to get into the idea of doing network reality shows and of all of them, and the people that I was talking to the amazing race was the one that really struck a chord with me, and thankfully, they they took a chance on the I I had just being. Hosting a show for the Discovery Channel. Which was called the venture crazy where I got my lifeless might list of things to do before. I'd I'd and I had been traveling around the world forty six different countries in twenty six different episodes. Doing crazy things from right when world records, and and and being venturous, I guess out in the world and that really helped and then I was lucky enough to be part of the race team. Which? We said go in central park in in early two thousand and one. Now this season. The teams are going to include members of castaways from survivor houseguests from big brother people from amazing race, previous episodes or seasons. How hard is it for you design? Oh that you are producer now of the show is well, how hard is it for you to find the right people to be in each season. Well, look, I mean just to be clear about my involvement in the casting. I go to the casting sessions, and I certainly way with my opinion, but you know, testing is a very specific job. And we have really good people who do it and have done it over the years. It's crucial to any reality show because the people that you put in front of the camera the words that come out of their mouth the reactions that they have to the emphasis to what the situation that. They're in that is that they like the script writers of of reality. We transcribe those words and. Those words really dictate the story, you know. That's why it is absolutely crucial that we get that. Right. Because if you put a dull test into a really amazing adventure around the world, it's still going to be dull, but you could put really vibrant, captivating characters into adult situation, and they could still make it vibrant. So I would say the the key absolute key element of any reality show working if the cast, and so we have a team of experts, then we'll go in and we could shortlist of people, and ultimately, it's the network that signs off on who they think are going to make the good TV, and I will tell you sometimes people exceed our expectations, and they offer way more than we ever expected. And there are times when a team maybe doesn't make our expectations for one reason or another because they just get so of wealth by the jet lag or they just find it so hard to cope, so but overall. We we have a very high strike rate with the cast that goes out and overall it's a little bit like cooking. You gotta have the right ingredients. You you can't just make just, you know, beautiful fresh vegetables, you need also need spices than you and you need sources. And so a cast a good cast is not about one team. It's about the collective, and that is what we're serving up if you like to the audience great mixture of really interesting telegenic captivating characters doesn't help you when the contestants have had some television experience. Not really, no. I mean, I look I have a voice said this. I mean, it's it's it's again, it's only my opinion. I prefer the people who are more fish out of water characters. But I also know that our fans and race fan race fans and survivor fans that big brother fans have also for a longtime really the wanting to see this reality mash up, and I I have to, you know, say initially I was like, okay. I'm not really sure how this is gonna go. But what it exceeded my expectations because the survivor big brother teams really are like fish out of water characters because they have they have no idea. I mean, they they have been competing in a house where their world is are the full wolves of the big brother house or they'd being on an island where they're essentially in their own world. I mean, that's like a large set on survivor. Suddenly when you're thrust. It into the real world. And it's a race course that extends thirty five thousand miles around the world, and you're going to dozens of countries, and you're exposed to the elements of the real world, the weather the train schedules. It you cannot create a a protective layer around the show the show is in the world and the world dictates what we do. So these teams are fish out of water. Even even though they've been on reality before they have no idea. What's coming and those amazing racers who have come back? Because the show is always different because they're always you think about a lot of shows that have a challenge that that the task will get briefed on the challenge. Okay, everybody. Here's how it works. You're gonna run up here. You're going to go down. There. You got a leap across here. There's a briefing. There's no briefing on amazing race you rip the unplugged. And it said fish like the local fishermen do. And all of a sudden, you're you know, up to your neck and water in the surf, and you're trying to climb up a stick with little pegs on it. And you trying to figure out how to fish like the local fishermen do. So it's it's baptism by fire. It's like more on our show than than a lot of other say challenge type shows when I don't think that people understand you aren't doing twelve episodes in twenty one days and visiting anywhere from three to six continents. How in the world how in the world are able to pull this off like what are some of the logistic, logistics issues? Like, for example, a lot of people. I know like how do you get travelling basis for everyone without them knowing where they're gonna go. Well, you, you know, you're you're talking about. Now, why the show works the show works because we have an increase. I'm part of a huge team of super experienced people who are really good at what they do the mazing Arthur up your can pull together local resources to be able to address the set or to suddenly find an extra donkey in the middle of the night because we need a spare donkey because one of the other donkeys walked off into the wilderness or getting I'm serious. I or maybe they can't find the donkeys. Now, we have to go with meals, and so we are all operating in a state of heightened anxiety for twenty one days. And I signed the people, you know, we're not there days where we were where we will not get to a hotel room. We we will fly all that we were start shoot all day will fly overnight. We'll get up shoot all day fly on. I get. Shoot all day. We're rolling from one place to another and there's no time to breathe. It's no time to to to get. Right. So the planning that goes into the logistics is so complicated that charts the one thing gets out of place. One thing goes wrong. We lose a certain element. And it has a domino effect all the way down the line to the finishing show. I've had same say we all you must choose when when you want a non limitation or women, and I have to explain them. Can you imagine? If you suddenly just say, oh, you know what I love this team. Let's make it anonymous where are you gonna find the extra hotel room? They extra flight the extra logistics the extra car for the challenge to extra donkey that you need for the chance. You can't just make this stuff up as you're going along it it comes with with months and months of of of planning. So yeah, the logistics are off the hook. You think about shooting says? Studio show in in in the valley. It's sixty nine degrees. You've got four walls cameras a hot at at nine you roll cameras lunches at twelve thirty beautiful catering service. Nobody's sweating inside that studio. It's it's it's beautiful. It's beautifully lit that. You know, a camera breaks down you go. Oh, I'm gonna call the camera rental place. It'll be here and a half an hour. Well, when you're in bus, and you're in the middle of a salt pan and the camera goes down because of the heat or dust gets in the in the camera, and maybe it's not one cameras to cameras, and you can't you can't grab a cell phone and call anybody because there's no cell phone service. And you can't call over to the valley to get a replacement camera. You have to make do with what you have. And so there's a whole other layer to making this show were and and and and a lot of unsung heroes on amazing race who keep this thing on the air. And who keep this thing rolling and who have maintained a. Standard of excellence for eighteen nineteen years. I mean, I I can't tell you. You know, I feel tremendous responsibility the best that I can be because I am surrounded by. Unbelievable team of people who are just on marvel. What they what they didn't. So, you know, my grandfather always said never you never wanna be the weakest Lincoln chain. So I'm fighting the, you know, the the best that I can be at my job, and there's no makeup. There's no wardrobe. There's no, you know, I'm writing making script changes on the road as we go. Because like I said things are chopping and changing. There's a lot to show that is hard hard to to to this to describe it. It's complicated. It's very complicated. How many people are just travelling with you in in like the scenes where the teams are running to the to the end of the finish line. It are you. What are we not seen? Just a team of like twenty five people behind you. Well, it can be upwards of fifty people moving at a time. And then don't forget. And then don't forget, the, you know, every every team has got a cameraman and sound person. There are countries that your system book after different countries. They go ahead to prep for us to arrive we roll in like a steam train, we get out of the airport. And sometimes I'm on the same flight of the team. And I have to go to every place they need to go. So if they're I it's the nation's the detour, I might divert. I might take a Detroit myself and go to the roadblock and shoot that explanation. And then as they are traveling back to the as they leave the Detroit Trump, the roadblock. I'll flip across the detour I'll shoot that. And then I have to make the calculation constantly about whether I can be slightly ahead of them to be the first one at the max welcomed the first team in. Sometimes I can't get I can't get everything shot before they get to the match. So then I go to the man and then on the way to the airport out. Of there. I'll go back and get them to hold the six donkeys. I keep talking about donkeys. But I get them to hold the set in place and say I'll be there. I'm gonna within quickly before I go to the airport, and I'll within and then I'll shoot the expansion and then I'll go to the airport. But if you think about all the leapfrogging that's going on. So you might have a team of of cameras at the detour and they're covering the event while the teams is there will win the last team leaves that group of people are now resources that can be used on another challenge. So they'll wait for the first team that wait for the lasting then as soon as they're clear, they'll leave from to another challenge. So might be over at the said the speed bump or it might be over it as at a yield or something. And so they divert over there. Now, they're dealing with real life challenges. Traffic suddenly there's a donkey going in. Sorry, not a donkey and elephant let me use a different animal. Maybe there's an elephant involved in an Indian festival in the street. And suddenly, they get caught and traffic. And then the producers are calling. Hey, where are you guys that you know, we need you over here? The teams are about to ride in ten minutes, and I go, well, we're stuck in a festival here is elephant right in front of us. We can't get there. We'll hurry up. You guys pooch? We need you there the coverage. So and then, you know, then all of a sudden the skies opened up, and there's a monsoon and then teams are on a train that was meant to get an substance such a time with the trains broken down. You know, these props and things that are part of our show that we don't have any control over, you know, tell you the number of times he sat on the plane and the late, and we watch the teams take off the head of us on another plane outside the window. Oh my God. It's complicated. So when you're waiting for pairs at the finish line. I'm assuming that you're not just sitting there you're writing scripts you're doing you're working out logistical issues with the crew. Yeah. So I shoot the of the introduction to the pit stop. So we're working that out. We work out the camera position score when the teams have a run in where the crew in a be. To let them run in into the mad the car yard fee of when they run into Matt looking at the lighting of you know, which changes throughout the day sometimes from dates night. So we might have to bring in lights, that's a constant we changing element. But then you have to other the other thing that people forget is that I don't know what the audience knows when the team arrives at them that. So if you watching the show three months later, you've seen everything I haven't and now and now they come to the mat? And now, I'm meant to be up to date with what you've seen and what I meant to know the story. Right. So the only way I can stay on top of the story is I have to follow along with story. Now, it's on my phone hate notes. Look at things I need to interview them about at. And that understanding I haven't seen it. It's all hearsay. It's just notes from you know, the the team that's the detour they saying, hey heads up by the way, Chris sprained his ankle, or you know, heads up. You know, we had team that just had a big argument, you know, over who is going to do the road block. So I have to be armed with all of that information. You know, every now and again, a fan will say something like how come you didn't ask them about this or how can we as a lot of times? Just 'cause I I didn't know in that moment, I assure no after the fact. But and then what happens if those notes get that information doesn't get to me because we're in a place where there was no cell phone service. Or that information gets me. You know, I it's changed a lot over the years of how the information is disseminated technology has definitely helped show because we have new ways of communicating that we just didn't have back in the day, and there are more cellphone. There's more cellphone coverage in more remote places in the world than there was when we started to what is the response that from foreigners to this American show. What is your experience been our people welcoming or really thickly are there people that you've come across that have a bad taste for Americans. I would be lying if I said, you know, that that there weren't people that had. You know, they didn't necessarily have a woman fuzzy feeling towards Americans. And I'll tell you why. And conversely, there was many people who who just love welcoming us. I think one of the greatest things about amazing race is that we are able to dispel a lot of Mets. It's about the rest of the world because we are fed a lot of information in network primetime television. And in media is about what's wrong with the world who hates Americans. And there are these bad people that are dressed up in clothes that we don't wear our selves, or they live in a culture that is different from ours. You don't see good news about other countries or other people typically, it's generally when something goes wrong, it makes the news, and then we'd become fearful, and then we think we can't travel and those people talk about people talking about all those people, they hate us, etc. Etc. There's so much love out there for people in general, regardless of what nationality they are that we are able to dispel some of those nets. And conversely when we have good embassador traveling. We. Always. I mean, there's some ugly Americans that we've had the short traveling on the show, but on the whole when they get see us in a positive light. It's the same thing it opens their eyes up to the fact that there's so much. There's so many wonderful people in America people think of America's is a safe country, and it is, but they are very surprised to find out that it's not the safest country in the world and doesn't even rate in the top ten. It can't quite believe. Like, what do you mean? How can you know, we keep seeing this news about how dangerous it is out in the world. And how these people hate us. How can not be the safest place in the world. So there are lots of state places to travel to there are lots of good people in the world. And I think that's to mean, our show is more relevant now as a as a means of of creating understanding in the world, then it has ever been because there is a lot of divisiveness now in in in the media about us and them, you know, I come from price shirts just had this terrible killing terrorist act in in in Christ Church. I am I'm can I'm very concerned about some of the misunderstandings that that exist in the world, and and just some of the sort of want. I'd opinions that people have about how the world is that the more weakened kind of show, I have people stop in those Muslim people really invite them into their home and offer them money or where they really like that. Because because something like the word Muslim is. Is so Societa societas with terrorism. And and that that people just assume, well, they must all be bad people have Colby bad people because every time I see them. They're on the news doing something bad. And conversely, sometimes when people see Americans on TV, they're also doing something bad. And so they assume that Americans over saying nothing could be further from the truth. So many wonderful people everywhere you go on there. How many times do you cry because I feel like I'm gonna cry just having you explain that to me. I mean, pe- you probably see such humanity in this job. I can't tell you. Yes. You're absolutely right. And and I look years ago. I wrote my bicycle across America. And years before that I used to live show across America in every single state. And I went to everywhere in America. I mean, if we were old fifty stays little places like zanesville, Ohio, and I saw America close heart in America and Americans are unbelievably generous people, and I find anywhere you go in the world is a direct correlation between those who have the least those who give the most tips for joining the show if somebody's sitting at home right now, and they're like that sounds like something I'd love to do. What do you think they need to know before they thought the application? Well, first and foremost, don't try to be anybody else. Don't see, you know, try to model yourself after another fire that you that you might like be yourself. It's hard to describe what you're looking for. And till you see it right in a win. The when the guards walked in. If you if you remember Kenton vixen season fifteen when they walked in. We hadn't written a mandate like all live like with to have a couple of Dawson who where like make up and who are kind of contrast each other. They just walked in. This is interesting like where did you guys come from? And and then we're unique and there were different in or what are the Cowboys one of my favorite teams ever? You know, they woke in with the cowboy hats on. Beautiful manners in and they did themselves to so many fans. Yes abuse. So remember that you're selling yourself? So you've got to put some energy into selling itself to be a little bit. Like if you met somebody of, you know, potential partner at a bar, and you were trying to flirt with them. We bid you would wanna put on a good impression. So it'd be wanting to like let them know why you might be a good potential partner or potential day. So there, you know, remember that? So you have to flirt with the floor with the camera. Do you remember stocky from fan or pump rules in her family? I absolutely do. Yes. I do. What is your like memory of them? Well, certainly you could tell that they they knew how to sell them. So that's the sure, but I I I I haven't seen this this show for a long time by because some informations me know, if everyone wanted to know because they've always been fascinated, but she was on amazing race before Vanna pump rules in actually suspect that perhaps she so successful as a cast member on that show in navigating rally television because of the experience that our family on amazing race. We'll let you know. It's an it's an interesting point. I mean, I I personally like when. When people are more. They literally there just for the experience of wanting to be on the show for the experience of what amazing race has to offer rather than being it as a stepping stone to something else because I think there's a different mindset. When when people come in that way, it's just that's just my personal opinion. And and and and the landscape has changed so much since we started when you think about the idea that people can leverage and opportunity like being on a reality show into something else. I just didn't exist a while ago. So you know, there's that fine balance of people being to media savvy that they're too aware of themselves that they don't let their guard down. And suddenly, you don't really see the real them. You see the them that they want to they want people to see as opposed to just that rule reaction of just being so innocent. And there's an innocence that being lost in reality television. Now because of the fact that people are are watching themselves back. Yes. Well, you must be so proud of your team. This is an unbelievable show. It deserves every word that's received. I'm. So excited the show premieres April seventeen Telera buddy where they can find you. And I know you work on a couple of other things. So please tell us what you're working on. You're I guess what? I would love to tell people that. I'm gonna be interviewing the original winners of the amazing race, Robin. Brennan sees one winners on my podcast, which launched the the interview with them will be launched on April. Seventeenth the podcast is called bucket with an IT so bucket with so Koga. It's available wherever podcasts are available. And also the video version is that so Cogan dot com. And at some point they'll be doing Leo and Jamal with as well on this show. And and bucket is really about just inspiring people could get out there and some of their full lives, so everybody Mark McGrath. Bonnie hunt two astronauts that even my dad was a re greeter on season thirteen of amazing races on so awesome. Date with dateline they recap each new dateline episode with lovingly smirk twist giving their entirely uninformed opinions on the clever and not so clever murder plots, the affairs, the antifreeze the poetic prose of the prolific hosts and everything else you need to win their dateline bingo parts, Katie, Kimberly. Welcome to the show. Hi here for having us. We're so excited. Thank so much. All right. I have asked you to watch his show called Celine sunset I've been talking about the show. Basically, those that have not watched it. It is an eight episode series. The follows a group of real estate agents on the sunset strip. Now. The show centers on the real estate brokers at the Oppenheim group, which focuses on multi million dollar homes for wealthy clients. So they say twins Jason and Brett Oppenheim who I've mentioned before look like two vertically challenged bald men with Volvo, arms and ill-fitting shirts. Run the company along with their all female group of agents who look like latter day playboy playmates the series focuses on what happens when a new agent crucial Hartley, Chris show, her name is a combination of Chris and show referring to the man Chris who helped deliver her at a gas station. And show the gas station Kentucky where she lived. She's married. Not a joke. That's true. She's married to this is a star Justin Hartley who plays Kevin on that show. Again. This is my lady friends. What do we think of the show? Well, I just wanna point out that we watch murder shows for a living, and this was just as disturbing. This is very accurate portrayal of every woman in Los Angeles. Let's just throw let's throw that out there that we try to avoid no just pretty much is what everyone is if you moved to Los Angeles. You will you basically get suited up with batons and get a job like this. And then you make you make your living side live in a studio apartment with no dishwasher washing machine. No, of course. No, minor conditioner isn't broken. No, no. We live with this. Why is crucial on the show? Because she's married to that guy on this is for sure. And you have to have a sweet character, I'm guessing. And I think that she is supposed to be the underdog. That's right, right. She's supposed to be the underdog thrower into the lion's den. That's what the plot is supposed to be. Yeah. I mean, there is a plot. Even though it's a reality show. It's real it's awfully scripted. Now, it seems to me that Maya and Chris show are the ones that are actually selling real estate in what they're selling is probably more like duplexes and one story homes and condos in the valley. It doesn't seem like there are many sales going on within Los Angeles proper. Do you get the sense that any of these women are actually quite successful in the real estate industry? I think they're very good at acting like they're successful, especially Christine the resident b word but looking back. She'll disc clients the second walk out of the room to the camera. So I think she's much more interested in being a reality star and quitting this job. Do you believe that Mary who's the elder real estate agent? She claims she claims she's thirty nine I'm gonna go with a hard forty nine because nobody in television of bits to their real age. So if they're telling me that she's thirty nine I'm gonna add ten years. So I agree. I actually showed her to my husband. I said how old is this woman? I need you to tell me how old she just looked at her and give me a blank age. He's like forty four. And I was like, right. So, but would you believe that she's dating at twenty five year old French pastry slosh model, I didn't slash model? Is that is that what he was? Well, he's a hyphen it they claim I don't believe that he's twenty five either. I think he was like an even thirty three. There's no way he's twenty five. And I don't believe that. He's a pastry. Chef I think that he probably sells protein supplements at equal. Yes. Also, he is only four years older than her son. So I think that she has lip fillers older than both of them. Do you think that Mary and are young French pastry, chef friend Romain lettuce? Sorry, romaine whose English is questionable. This are they together. And are they really is that? Okay. No. He's all this is my guess, my guess is that he's her personal trainer. She said I got this opportunity to be on TV. I need to make it seem like I'm younger. I feel a lot of pressure. I finally get my chance to be on TV. But I'm considered an old widow now. So what do I do? And he's like I want to stay in the United States a little bit longer. If you could work out. A program for me. Let's pretend that we're together. And then maybe I can get some sort of secondary TV opportunity through this, and you it'll make you look younger because I don't even believe they've ever kissed. Vo. No. It was the most awkward engagement. I've ever the the engagement was rough to watch. Yeah. But really there's a bunch of people that work for that show that aren't on the show that worked for that company. So the only way she gets on the show is if she has this drama with the young boyfriend. So then there's there's Maya Maya is from Israel. She is an incredibly annoying accent. Did it bother you the way bothered me? And when she was in that black mesh top, and she said asked everybody in office to quiet down said. It's time to be silent of the lamb. Yeah. Did you want to punch through the TV the way I did? She was the only one I could have tolerate not do you believe that property was forty million dollars. And was it sold by anybody in that real estate office? No, I don't believe it didn't sell right. I mean, that's the lead in for part two. I'm assuming we're going to have part two and three of this because it was a giant Norma's hit right to should be a full on hunger games to see who sells that house, and they are competing for stilettos and diamond rings and clawing at each other's realtime drinks, not the fake one that Mary gun and also Christine kind of blew off the way that you get your real estate license. It was sort of like you go to the doctor. You get some outer all you study for like three months, and then you take the top student super easy. Yeah. That was a phenomenal statement. That was episode one. I think I was like, okay. Okay. No. I think I think Christine has planned all of her soundbites ahead of tight great. And they're when there's a situation that kind of has to do with that. She goes to her little notes section on her phone and picks the sound bite that she's written. And then she does it for the camera echoing green more. Now. Here's my question. Now that you have watched approximately seven hundred forty nine episodes of dateline. Yeah. Which one of these real estate agents is most capable of committing a murder. Oh, gosh. I want I like Christine is the obvious one. But I'd I don't know. I think she's maybe a softy underneath in is doing this to be the villain. Davina? I think is a sociopath. Davino? We don't see a lot of. And I think there's a reason for that. They're like she's not introduced to like episode three because she became a bitch. So she was clearly like, I'm not getting any attention. What can I do? I'm gonna be the bitch out bitch Christine, and then she got on the show. Interesting. It worked for her. I guess can we go with David? And Brett can we go with the actual Oppenheimer twins? Okay. Because I feel like that's if it hasn't happened already. It's it's coming. There's only been a few datelines about murderous twins. But they're great. Dateline saja? So did anyone notice the waiters in this that the waiters repeat they repeat waiter? Getting credits felt on the red headed ginger ginger at two different restaurant wrecked. And they keep introducing themselves. Keeps me like. Hi, mike. Can I take your order? Hi, I'm Brett. So what waiter introduces themselves number one and that he had the shakiest hands. He's giving the whole milk cappuccino which kept catching my ear because they kept saying it and the Shiqi Cup and saucer. Gig. He's nervous recast. But he they're they're planted. They are planted weights that staff that was crazy to me. Well, I need to go back into watch that where can people find your podcast because here's the thing. People who watch reality television shows also watch and everything to do with true crime. It is none true crime documentary reality show, they all go together. So where can they have their have their hair blown back with Amisi in the interesting murder cases and the two of you, ripping them apart. You can find us on I tunes in all podcast apps. A date with dateline we often discuss ninety fiance, and when Daniel is gonna kill Mohammed. And when that will be on a dateline where on Twitter and Instagram date. Dateline and on Facebook, we're going to be crime con in June in New Orleans, and we have a patriot dateline. And we're pretty snarky Katie cuts out the really mean stuff, but I'm pretty mean. Robin Hood is an investing app that lets you buy and sell stocks ETF's options and cryptos all commission free. While other brokerages charge up to ten dollars for every trade, Robin Hood doesn't charge any commission fees. So you can trade stocks and keep all of your profits. Plus, there's no account minimum deposit needed to get started. So you can start investing at any level. The simple intuitive design robinhood makes investing easy for newcomers and experts alike view, easy to understand charts and market data and place a trait in just four tops on your smartphone. You can also stop collections such as one hundred most popular with Robin Hood, you can learn how to invest in the market as you build your portfolio. Discover new stocks track your favorite companies and get custom notifications for price movements. So you never miss the right moment to invest Robin Hood is giving listeners of reality life with Kate. Kate. See a free stock like apple Ford or sprint to help. Build your portfolio. Sign up at reality dot, Robin, Hood dot com. It's almost summertime. Do you feel like you're prepared? And do you have a great sandal? I love Tiki there leather sandals. Handcrafted in Brazil. You know, they're pretty much worn by all my best friends. Angelina Jolie beyond say Cindy Crawford, and they have free monogram available. So if you're looking for something for a bridal shower or a baby shower gift and listers of my show are gonna get fifteen percent off with the code reality. You need to go on their website and check out their nudes collection, which is designed to match every skin tone. And you know, if you wear a skin colored shoe in mixture legs look longer in a winter bought Tiki for all the women utter daughter be Schieffer's wedding. And I think you're about to get a brand new pair too. So if you go to Tiki TK E, S dot com slash reality and enter code reality at checkout. You're gonna get fifteen percent off your purchase, that's tease TK E E S dot com slash. Reality for fifteen percent off. Darren carp is well known as Andy Cohen's right hand, lady making all things happen over at Bravo headquarters. She's also a huge true crime. Buff has a podcast about it. And is also a huge TV lover Darren welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me Kate. I'm really excited to talk to you today. I actually the first question I have is tell everybody all the things that you do because you are more than just a an assistant. Thank you. I do a lot. So yeah, I started out his anti Sistan. I mean, we sort of had this joke that I'm like his chief of staff, but I'm really is right Andrews his left hand, depending on what he's doing. I just had an eight year anniversary with him. So I've been with him for almost a decade. So we really grown together, and he's been such a mentor. So I definitely work with him. That is part of my day job. The other part of my day job is I host a podcast on oxygen called martinis and murder. Please check it out. It's basically at once a week. We do a murder. Case or disappearance case, and the we drink themed martinis to go along with that murder that week. However it relates to the case. So I basically get paid to get drunk at work on Wednesdays at four really can't complain about my job. And then I also have my own Bravo, TV dot com web series called Bravo. Pre-game where I essentially interview all the Bravo liberties that come on watch. What happens live before they go on the show? It's in their dressing room getting ready. And then I asked them questions based on preview clips of what we're gonna see that week. So those come out I've about six episodes coming out and they come out every Monday, you can find those Bravo, TV dot com slash Bravo preaching. So I listen to your episode that you did I know year in half ago almost a you're into method on the Madeleine McCain case since then this. Oh, yeah. Since then this net flicks specials, come out. It's probably been maybe two weeks, but it's called the disappearance of Madeleine McCann again on net flicks. And it's an eight part series. It's a detailed look at the. Appearance of three year old Madeleine McCann who vanished while unholiday with her family. So before we get into the nitty gritty, how how much do you think this series changed your perspective from that episode that you did about a year and a half ago? Well, okay. So here's the thing. Like, we always say murderers recession proof, right? Like, there's so many murders that we can cover. We're never going to be able to uncover all of them though. The way that our podcast works is one where very much advocates of the victim because a lot of times in Netflix series or any series that you see they really talk about the killer. And they don't really talk about the victims. And I we try and give victims of voice. So we obviously could only speak for Madeleine McCann. She was only three when she disappeared do as best as possible, but there's just so much speculation. So before there there was a little bit of focus on the idea that the parents may have done. Something and tried to cover up this this series really imply that perhaps Madeline was taken as part of a sex ring sex trafficking ring. What are you? What are your thoughts about that? It's entirely possible. You know, I don't know because I will say watching it's hard because a lot of times the cases, especially with disappearance cases that usually someone. No, it's not someone that is just random, you know, going into your house taking them for me, it almost made more sense for the parents to sort of be involved originally when I was watching the show, and I it was probably the first I don't know two or three episodes of probably covered this. You know, they seem to intimate that the parents drugged their children with coal pro which was kind of just like a medication. You know, you take if you have a cold, and you know, they were little and so maybe they just and they were both doctors, maybe they given them too much, and you know, Madeleine had passed away and. It was a complete accident. They didn't mean to do it, and everyone sort of covered it up. Okay. They accidentally killed Madeleine. This is horrible. I could see I understand the psyche of wanting to get out of that. Right. Because they were with a group of friends everyone to keep silent about that. Forever. Seems unlikely to me. And they had blood sniffing dogs that found blood in the room that Madeleine was staying in obvious if you drugged your kid, and they died there really wouldn't be any blood unless you know, she cut her finger something beforehand, and so there's just a lot of questioning back and forth. Now, what we sort of know how the series is really playing out at least in the last three or four episodes is it's possible. She was taken into a sex ring, which is a common theme among the watt of missing children, Johnny gosh. She was the first milk carton kid people still believe that he's alive, and he was taking into this underground sex colts and kind of sold into sex slavery. It's entirely possible. I hate to say it it's tightly possible. I'd like to think that because she was taken when she was three that, you know, either. She's not suffering any more to say, oh, I hope she's dead because that's terrible. I hope she's not suffering any sort of place. Engine. She's treated well. I would really hope that she wasn't in some underground ring and someone could save her. I just I don't know. There's so many creepy things out there. And then the other kid who also disappeared who was also three during that time, it's entirely possible. What do you think Kate? This one was really hard for me to watch. I have children around the same age. In fact, I have a daughter who is three almost four not Madeline was taken on may may third. Her birthday would have been made twelve making her four years old. She disappeared. And there was a sighting of her being taken by someone while wearing pink pajamas and barefoot an as ripe before we've started this. I'm taking my daughter the same age who looks exactly like Madeleine out of the car with pink pajamas without shoes on on my like tears me apart. I think also she was up -ducted the week that I got married. So a lot of people will ask me will would you have gone to dinner so far away and let your kids stay in the government, the more. I think about it. I think that this shape. Really this case really shaped the way parents think because I would like to say, no. And I do think that there are many Europeans that have a more cavalier way of having dinner, and and entrusting that they can have their children in close proximity. Think Americans have different point of view. But I also think that. This case shape the way people think because now even at a baseball game last night. I didn't let my kids play on the jungle gym even within sight because Madeleine McCann's case is always at the back of my head. So I had children after Madeline was taken. And I do think it really has changed the way people think about how how much they watch your kids. I do know that well, I have to say that after watching this. I tend to believe that she was taken as part of sex trafficking. And here's why I live in southern California. And I'm friends with a police officer who works in the hate crime unit of the Los Angeles Police Department. He pushed me to get my kids fingerprinted, even the babies, and he said, it's really important because there is a a really bad ring here and kids are being taken to the Long Beach port and they're taken overseas. And if you don't have them fingerprinted and put into an international database. We don't know. Wherever going to be able to find them again. Should they all like, if they're taken, you know? I mean, listen a lot of this. And to your point earlier, even about being a mom, and you know, how Europeans might be feel differently in different cultures than in America. You know, because I think a lot of people, and listen, I'm not a mom, so I could be misspeaking aired, and you could bubbly speak way more to this than I ever could. But I feel like once you let your life out there, and you have children your allowing everyone to judge you. So a lot of times in the documentary, at least Netflix they were like the parents were acting so cavalier about it. And they just want the press, and they're not crying enough, and they're no remorse, and they're laughing. They're doing this. You're not there under so much scrutiny. And so I think when they're saying that it also affects my perception of how I'm viewing them. You know, what I mean, even though I don't have children, and who knows how someone would react to losing a child. I couldn't even imagine that's gonna be the worst thing to happen to anyone in the entire world. I do know that in many of these cases that the police departments or the authorities. Tell the parents do not. Cry on television or an interviews because the captor right? Will look it'll look weak you'll look weak, and they all almost get off on it. They enjoy watching the parents in distress. So they they begged them not to react in interviews. And that's why you see people look like they're drugged or something because they've been told this is the only way to protect your child, you cannot react in the news interviews, and it goes against logic. Because we would think that if we were on television. I say, please, I can't breathe a need my child, right, please. So it's I think the parents are in an awful situation, and the idea that these parents would have done some in their daughter. I don't believe it. I don't believe there diabolical as you mention there too many people involved that would help to have to help with the cover out. They have two other children, you know, like, the they have to their kids and not for nothing. But I do a lot of cases, and we just covered. Chris watts last week we've done Susan Cox Powell aware, it's. Rare that it's just one kid that they if you're, you know, a sadistic parent, it's pretty rare that you're just gonna kill one of your kids. You're gonna kill all of them. If that's the case, you know, what I mean like that. Andrea Yates thing you're not not just going to be one. And then, you know, the only thing I think that was interesting was when the other two kids that they had were like sound asleep during the entire commotion which I find interesting. Well, I don't know. I don't know how I almost four year old and she when she's asleep, she's asleep. So that didn't really reason eyebrow. I think that interested. I think that this family was targeted. They arrived at that resort on April twenty eighth. So they had been there for five days enough time for people to monitor what they did they want. They went into the kids club each day. The families all had dinner at the same tops restaurant. They could they could see what they were doing. Also note was left out to say this table is reserved. They. They were being watched. And let us not forget that this is a tone while it may look beautiful on television. There's an underbelly to it. And it is also in close proximity to northern Africa and more more Tena has horrible sex trafficking, reputation. So I think it's hard for people to to believe that there is this part of the world. That's so sick. But it's very it's a very complicated world there's a lot of money behind it. And I think people if anything with this case does it reminds us all to keep our eyes very wide open and to each other's back. And that's always my hope in some of these cases that there's there is a silver lining to it. And I hope it's that. Well, here's a question for you is like a parent, and I agree with you, a whole hardly endless in these things absolutely exist, and that show the exist in the United States, but they definitely exist overseas. Do you think that by? By having these getting these cases out there of missing children, the disappearance of makes parents now sort of over parent their kid like are we doing a disservice by not giving our kids freedom now because we're so worried about them being the next Madeleine McCann. I am relentless in in my job, which is to protect my children. I will not apologize for that. And that way, and I think that many of these documentaries like -ducted in plain sight and leaving Neverland that and I've had the privilege of talking to the directors and producers of some of those films, and I've said the same thing to them that I think that it has been hugely important for those films to be shown because we need to remember how important it is to pay attention to the people in our children's orbit, and who you know, where they go because we need to protect children. So I will not apologize for that. And the truth is is that Hirsch chief fit the profile. File for a trafficking ring. She's she's a white three year old almost four year old girl. It's awful. But it's the truth is that that there's there's a tier system, and she sort of hit the fit the profile, and she was targeted and there were people that were taking photos of the children that ocean club. So I I don't think that having money still go to the fund will upset people and the other part to your question is I if I were the parent I would try to keep that secret as long as possible because right? It was suggested to me that Natalie Holloway may have been hod like track marks, and you know, had been subjected to awful things. And so if someone is taken and they have been under drugs for like four five years and they've been abused. It's gonna take a long time for them. Unwind. This is not like an aerial Castro situation where five girls live in Detroit in a home. This is these are peep, women and young men who have is slaves a transported from country to country, and and and been slaves, and it would take a lifetime to get over that. So I don't know what the timeline is for for us to know what has happened, but I have to trust that their parents and the mental health professionals that are working with them. We'll know the answer to that. It's just so scary to even think about you know, when you were talking about the perfect profile of like, and Madeline McCann really hit it, you know, because in my mind from what I've seen in the cases that we've covered at least Martinez murderer and the stuff that I read in the news is that you kind of want to get them young. So you can have them for a long period of time her being three, you know, you could have her for fifteen years before she's a full adult. A three year old girl is going to start to forget about her mother and her father and her siblings in shorter. Periods of life. Right. And this is how how it should be. You know, that's especially officially today's age of just you know, it almost seems like these these types of captures would have been easier twenty years ago to pull off. But now social media, you know, I don't know it seems like especially if you're going to three year old. Okay. They're not gonna fight back. Probably not gonna say anything, you can manipulate them in any way. But almost like stealing, you know, an eighteen year old. It's kinda like how could you possibly keep that quiet? So it's such a disgusting. I think people would be surprised to know how easily it is. I've reasons, but Amy Bradley who disappeared from the cruise ship, you know, eighteen years ago, remember, Amy Riley up. I believe she's still alive. I think that she was taken into sex trafficking. And I think that she probably. Feel some sort of shame and doesn't know how to get out of it because in the process of surviving. She may have had to do things in order to to stay alive. And and maybe that's a difficult life to leave. And especially if somebody has forced you to take drugs. God, this is horrible. This is really bringing on my mooring. But you know, what I always try to replace that feeling of frustration defeat with action. Always an idea think that this is going to this. There was a reason the story needed to come out again. And its to remind us all to be vigilant vigilant for our own children and for the children of the people in our own line. You know, in our circle of friends, and all our vigilant that that these cases will start to dwindle. And that we're all in this together. I hope we all don't forget that we're all in this together. Absolutely. And you know, you're so right about just making things public. And you know, I always the bestest infected is is sunlight and certainly at oxygen and on Bravo. We cover the dirty John case, which was a really popular podcast is the story broke by the LA times. I'm sure you've heard of it. And you know, we talked to Debra Newell who was mediums Vic. Victim here. And she said, listen, the reason I wanna do this because I really wanted just show other women and men the red flags and to make sure that they're aware. And they're more villages vigilant, and they're paying attention in the future. So I do think that the more. We're able to talk about this society, whoever dark and terrifying. It is the better will be all around for everyone. I just think that we all need to adopt. The the I don't think so mentality. That's the way I like to live my life. Like you get an answer in. You're not happy with it. You're like, I don't think. So like, I I'm gonna fix this problem. So God parenthetical those poor. Parents just it breaks, my heart. It really does. It's horrible. And all the all the press that they were getting, you know, again, if you're especially because they couldn't cry all the hate mail that they were getting from people. That's another thing that I don't understand. I don't understand. Trolls don't understand people that go out of their way to say something horrible to. Another person and the amount of stuff that they were getting in probably still get is just cut wrenching to watch never live. They lose a daughter. But now they're being vilified for it. You know, what the the other victims that we forgot about our her siblings. Right that they had to continue life without their sibling unto watch the pain in their parent's faces every morning when they got him on other daughter. Honestly, I can only imagine I could only imagine I would be the same way. If I children, you make me feel better about having children in my future. Kate, you you you will be just fine. You've watched enough of these episodes of like forty eight hours mysteries date. You just now exactly tell everybody again where they can find you social media your podcast. Yes. So podcast is Martinez. Murder. You can find it anywhere. You get your podcast Spotify tunes wherever Stitcher wherever you get your podcast. We have episodes coming out every Thursday and Sunday. You can follow me on social media at carpet Darren which is essentially just my name backwards. But it's supposed to be carpet. Diem you can find all my videos on there. I also started a little mini talk show that I do tiny talk show, which you can find it tiny talk show dot com. Avai amazing cake JC, my great guests this week recre-, Greg. Yes. Phil Cogan Kimberly and Katie from date with dateline and Darren carp, the great Darren carp, please go to Facebook and ask yourself to our group reality life with Casey like I said, we're going to discuss ladies who punch on Sunday. And you can also talk about all the other reality shows like there's a lot going on with this hills reboot. It's not even on the area, and there's so much to discuss. And who could forget about all the different real housewives shows, and I'm happy to see that Porsche from real house. By wise of Atlanta is now posting pictures of herself without all the makeup and all the assessories now that she's had a new baby because that's truly what happens you have a baby. It's so beautiful. You're so in love, and you really give two shits about eyelash extensions at least for good couple weeks. And then you're like, okay. I gotta get my act together. So so much to unpack there. And then also you can find me on Twitter at Kate. Casey. I tweet during shows. Does and about shows and my Instagram is at Kate Casey C A, please go there. Check out the upcoming guests that I have. And I always do Instagram stories about the ridiculous things that happened to me all week. And finally, my website is love and knuckles dot com. Hope you guys have great week.

murder Madeleine McCann America Netflix Robin Hood Kate Los Angeles Christine kind Katie Casey Madeleine Phil Cogan Facebook Madison Andy Cohen producer YouTube Chris Madeline
S1E92: The Shawn Harvey Morning Show  02/21/20

The Shawn Harvey Morning Show Podcast

2:22:40 hr | 7 months ago

S1E92: The Shawn Harvey Morning Show 02/21/20

"Okay took Took GO LARRY. Asa Okay everybody God bless each and every one of you is so filled Friday. It is Friday February twenty first twenty twenty forty five minutes after the hour work to sharp one show fruits and Saint James Alone Co host party. Clo- where you get your morning started right only place on Earth where you get your morning started right only places you're GonNa get all this morning. Love the chat room is wide open. You know please show each of some love in the chat room or you can call it. The numbers five seven zero nine eight two six nine five zero. Cj We are broadcasting live on radio DOT COM IHEART radio show Harvey Morning Show Dot Com Comedy World Radio and the all mighty facebook live so coming enjoys. What action packed. Show this morning. Cindy J. on feel Good Friday. Good to see. How are you today? Cj I'm doing Great Sean. Good morning to everybody listening. We have a great show for you guys today. We're going to get started with front page news with any Jay where I'm going to let you know what's going on locally and nationally so make sure you stay tuned for that and right. Now I'm going to get you started with a little bit of weather if you haven't stepped out the door yet right now. In downtown Bethlehem where we broadcast from daily in Pennsylvania. It is currently nineteen degrees going up to a high of thirty nine degrees but it will be sunny all day. So you'll have to bring any rain gear out with you in New York City. It is currently twenty three degrees and is going up to a thirty seven degrees and it will be sunny all day today as well in Orlando. It is currently fifty two degrees. It is cloudy. And they're going to a high of fifty seven today in Hotlanta. It's currently thirty four degrees. They're going up to a high of forty six won't be very hot there today and it will be partly cloudy partly sunny in Los Angeles currently fifty seven degrees and they are going up to a high of seventy five and it will be sunny all day there today. So that is the weather that we let us know what the weather is like where you are this assembly Jay on the Sean Morning. Show featuring me along with Carl was Barbie Cologne where you get your morning. Starting right and j where you get your morning started writes in Jay. We're GONNA have Harvey's houses sports will. We're going to give a different perspective on sports of the scores. That's what we do here but before we do the morning buzz we have a special guest in Mr Footwork himself. My man we'll tracks will be calling in the legendary at eight thirty but before we had the morning buzz and I guarantee ancient everyone the all in that chat room listening all newsradio platform head booby buzzard before nine. Am Synergy what else do you have. Well in the nine o'clock hour I'm also going to have some sunny says Rowlett you know what's going on in Hollywood and entertainment news so stick around for check this out what we're going to do we're going to take a quick break before we take a break. One that people know that when we come back. We're GONNA shout out. The Room with the heart sat in the chat room. You know the official anthem all over the world all over the Internet. You know how we say. Where's the heart set in the chat? We'll show you some but not only that city. We also going to name a new chat room member of the re- that's what we do on Friday because on Friday. We dedicate the show to all our listeners. So check this out. We're GONNA shout you out with Heart Center chat room. We're going to announce a new chat room member of the week so don't go nowhere. What are we GONNA do go back to the morning drive? Dj never never stopped always would be. They always do doubt Bill. Campbell took hold on. Hold on guys share. It's cold outside outside and their busy busy week there. I've been busy all week so after the show. I haven't done my laundry. Could you know what I did? Laundry all my laws US IN MY CAR RANKED CITY UTAH. I was so I took everything like the bedsheets locations. You Got Right. She's wrong choice of right now. Which seats y'all all and show your resume my lunch my own life. I don't have called. They're never got to end the conflict laundry over there except I like to go to school lunch or match to because she can do all your laundry at once and then they had big acid received the before you put several teams Gerald I in the day beat on that day now. Let's get this. Don't I picked through piles of what? Ideally you. Just wash it for the next day. I don't really got hyper all Shaw Bob. Single Lady here I I look. Look what are you worried about what we wear tomorrow? Whatever you want you already in the washing machine. We washed that boom real quick. We worry about the resin leaders who are closed yesterday just fixing things. God knows as I got tired of all the lottery. Is it never. It doesn't banderas but I have never as always our pilots. So why don't we just use what we need? You get down to that last gearboxes nine word just go to Walmart. Ninety nine eight pack. Call it a day long underwear hat right lease time for his laundry. Give a damn about a laundry too. Then she takes off in my car and then I have a laundry bag I want to. I don't even want to think about it. I really don't want to think about Louis. Post exit one long. I mean hey godspeed my brother in that laundry. I wish you all the best in your journey with that says what to wear for walk witness underwear got said turn your socks accuser inside out get another thing stocks herald green box inside out living up. You know what it is. You'll have to wash your underwear before her your new underwear y y you no own. Why do you don't get what you pay for? That they just go into the rotation of Never GonNa get also air sealed in the package. Now you buy underwear and they lose the T. Shah and yet you buy a loose plan but if you think you want that must got time on her side him out and put a warning fits so well. I would guess once a week I try but then you know what will happen to sidetrack into the close watch machines and they get mel dude attention spans. I pick me not having watched his DISA- blended not to split the food drive. And like I always take a piece of Washington now right on the Lazier because apple washing machine and dryer in my house. So I I'm just like whatever countdown can you WANNA watch her entire? And of course longer. Veneta don't call don't come over my house long. Hap- side of my day is closed amazes me if I had a man I might I might take more pride and clean it up but as of right now we are back on. It is still good. Friday is Friday February twenty first twenty twenty fifty seven minutes out the I will welcome one. God bless each and every song money show featuring Dj Colesberg way gives WanNa start right only place on earth where you get your start right you get your morning. Love Mateo folks are GonNa get you want to start right but it's a good look when you hear the chat rooms open. Please show Chelsom love this morning or you can call in numbers. Five seven zero nine two six nine five zero singer broadcasting live comedy. World RADIO RADIO DOT COM I heart radio show DOT com. Facebook live we are in the building. Welcome everybody CJ. Good morning once again in. How are you good Morning Sean? I'm doing great feats extra great Shahabi Coffee. I've been working on night so he probably didn't want to fall asleep in gaul hidden motives. Shaw I'm GonNa let you guys know what the weather is like today in. Maybe your neck of the woods in Bethlehem Pennsylvania where we broadcast daily from it is currently nineteen degrees spit. Nippy outside it'll be partly cloudy. It's going up to a high of thirty nine in New York. It is currently twenty three degrees going up to a high of thirty seven Wu. And it's going to be sunny so catch that Sun while you can in Hotlanta. It is currently thirty four degrees. Going up to a high of forty eight and it will be mostly cloudy in Orlando. It is currently fifty two degrees going up to a high of fifty seven and it will be cloudy. Sorry about that. Audrey Johnson not sunny down there in Florida today and in Los Angeles. It is currently fifty seven degrees. And they're going up to a high of seventy five and it will be sunny all day over there. That is whether that we have let us know what the weather is. Like where you are this is Shaun Harvey morning show featuring Jay along with Barbie Cologne way. Guitar Monastery Jim Would you get your morning started right. We're GONNA Shout Chapman. That's right we're going to show you some love that's right 'cause somebody all in that chat room need that love today you are my spirit of saying to my niece of love so we here to give some cause without you guys. We wouldn't be here but first before we shop those folks out Sidney J folks in my Party Room. I want you to come into the Shaw Morning. Show featuring the WACO team And Business Page and Lanky and then you could just shot up. Because there's somebody here Richard. None of the everybody to go to them up to visit sage like it and you'll get shot a book before we shall those all stars in the chat room we want to show the creeper some love New People. You don't know the creepers out of folks that are good folks and listen to the show city Jay on the radio via radio or on facebook. Glad but they're not in a chat room and they then religiously each and every day there's thousands of that's right and the only thing they wanna do. They WanNa do all schools. This WANNA listen to the show they WANNA laugh or we're having a formative news with Cindy J. or the sports but we do they just want to enjoy the show. Shout to the creek was now haters. They hear city Jane. The heaters are here like to say blessed. Okay haters you keep listening to this show because you have no choice sitting there listening to the WB L. S. Ninety nine thousand all everybody and shows no luck our country. Will you get? You're going to start sending now to the beloved folks in the Chat Room off stars in their. That's right still insist. They're in the chat room. We want to show them some love. It's coming Y'all because we love you guys. Despite sometimes you guys come in and out of the room. Sometimes you caught up in your feelings. Sometimes I hate Sean. I need you to know. I don't I don't hate anybody else. See I don't even know why entertain folks of businesses. They hate me hate me. You know what the folks in the Chat Room Man. Without some folks in Jay. We couldn't do this show. That's where I am and I get nervous. Sometimes when some of these folks are not in a challenge. Susan Cox no pause blackheart into building now. He Labor cake is young adults in the building. Now No Jeff Santiago shepherd in you know what we're GonNa do chat whether heart attack and the chat room. Hey where the heart in the chat room. Let's go down where the heart attack. Hey Hearts at walk. Hey what Kyrie and chat chat chat room with heart kid chatrooms where the heart heart attack Jacqueline city. Let's go down hard on rhythm hearts at the heart of the heart Barry. Where's the set in the chat room on the feel? Good Friday your needs to drop to your knees and thank the Lord that you allowed today. You've got a double bonus of having your family alive today and well unique to drop down to your knees and kissed the son. You gotTa John Nerve enough to make some money and you healthy. You better thank Jesus for all of that. What is the heart set in? The chat room turned down. A what? What the how how hard sandy ten chapter ten chat room heart? Saturday tend to chat ten chat room then chat room to chat. Let's wait a Hard Jab. Hey man the hearts that where the heart capital pig hearts ask. What what what. Better RECOGNIZE CITY. Hold on hold on. What a shout out for the first time when shot up barbeque Cologne Okay Ono. She's in their rooms. Bobby wrong about to put an she just his. Why belong rocks with us? We the three in here together. Just the three of us. Not The two of us we in here as a team we can to entertain you guys. We appreciate you appreciate Bobby. Come on the universe has given us the colonial rock this thing all the way to the top and for sure you know. We're going there so I want to take this because the universe has proclaimed this for us. That's why put that working. So I talk about Cindy J. I wouldn't do this show without Cindy J. Better recognize the hard work that this young lady put it. You'll have to recognize that I do in the universe. Your show Cindy Jason La. She lives this. She lives what we do here. She lives it. I'M GONNA make sure this woman is doing this for a living this time next year. I pulled claimed that your show Cindy J. Some luck she walked with me day. One run around. Take your some kind of Radio Personality Drako? Prosecutors this woman this you read your your convenience. You don't even know what you do and cities they got more talented huffing than all your up there in the wor radio female personalities I said Lord Recognize Sidney J do here. We'll J. Lo so you didn't hear can't be in the same room as personality at City J. Are you kidding me? I said that came from the top cable. North you you you you can't you you your radio so better than this show is now you better not you know. What does that mean this? Would I do cine? Dj Does with me. The shore's love feel Good Friday this woman. I couldn't do this show and I won't do this. Show without this woman rather donald. He did it for a week without special city. Jack Some luck in these streets matter of fact you don't have to the people in the chapel named we don't that. Tote your women can't be in the same room with the swim. This woman is super talented. What what what on the field. Good Friday what what I feel great. Why considering Jay sitting in this room with me this show don't even work with. You'll even know happy things. Women do behind the scenes for this show kicked his running mate. We WanNa Kerr Calgary local we in this together. God bless you Shaan. You know what I'm saying. God bless you acted. Dote you're sitting there pontificating saying nothing talent 'cause you see where we do? This chargers they showed up from the crack. You had that in the back bang so let me bring my talents out this practice. Any Senate right. What y'all got respect. Respect Sidney J Chapman. Jason Love Hard for this show. Talented on the Phil de Chabrol member. We can know that. You're so sidney. J Some love they are solo work. It doesn't work with out this woman you up to where we RECCO Siemian James instead ruled swollen. I can't take it. God bless you city Jay. Well God bless Usua- Sean God bless God bless chapter hosted blackhawks more. If you don't cover see even though you've got to go and go and see you got to stay. You're laying Lloyd watch intake humidity. We appreciate all shot to Wanda Santiago. Shepper WANDER YOU. Were late today. We almost couldn't do the shout ever do that again. I don't know what you're doing over there with your new role and Everything Wanda. Please shot out shot. I'll Cine J. man my God shoutout to Lynette Net net Serano. How are you good morning? Happier team shot. Take an easy. Just she's city Lynette. We have your team. We have your team for U. P. purposes shot. Be If you still in the building around ask. Mexico beat next to be X. that's right shutout to Veneta George Henry Haven that come morning girl. She'll city some love addict. Shots at Andrews Hegel hold on this show today is dedicated to Sydney jail. Why SEAN FITTING LOCALLY SO EXTRA COUNT? Sitting is looking at me dedicated. Excuse me is. This show is dedicated to US city. Jay God bless park law. This show is dedicated to you every day nor does I mean I do love but to walk out of here. I'm gone. Trust me about shots. Tricky Lou is twenty dollars. Tricky twenty dollars tricky. We appreciate you today. Man Shot I to well Robbins. Hey well how are you doing? What happened last night? Did you run around? But as he had a show last night last night we had a discussion. He's been married for fifteen years than with his wife twenty years and I wanted them to do something different when his wife came home last night. 'cause she works. She comes home at nine o'clock at night he he leaves he. He works in the day or night. Whatever vice versa. And I wanted him to do something different. One him to smash his wife. I wanted them to be naked. Woman came on Sean. Don't tell people shot out to the FANEUIL Joan Tena Daniel Morning Shutout the annual Washington. Hey how you doing? Shut up the star light star. Bright which I'll do it what she was doing this week. A get into subtropical shot out to Shawn Heins Jones. Hayler Sean. How you doing shot to Cunera Williams? Hey Queue godless shot out your crystal Jones. Hey Crystal Crystal. Shoutout to time. Lee High Neta shot out. All of this metal was at the Christmas party husband. And that's the way you're real. You need to take no sometime editor. Hunter husband sitting in the corner. This is Dana full-time relationship. Yeah the honeymoon's over. I think I took a picture with her. I don't WanNa back on. That husband was in a corner groping. Woody joke kissing on each. Oh yeah the way supposed to be done in a long term relationship you know some long term relationships like whatever. Yeah when we get home. They don't care. What are these two can? Keep a hands on smash shot out to see Lizzie. What up Bro. How are you shoutout to? Dj Star buggy happy birthday his birthday. Happy Birthday to happy birthday to. Hey happy birthday hey. Three loose ends wanders husband's birthday too. So that was for George as well. Wanda. That's why you were busy. W was busy Wanda. Well Happy Birthday. George showed how Jennifer Fischetti. Hey Jennifer how are you good morning? Show don't hundred birthday. Shout out to Squeaky Pinkish Hayes Miki love your wife. Hey Girl Shot Virginia. Wait if she's still listening. Shot to Rome garrison new listener grown. I want you to call then roams. Aau Son and all that. Yeah I want you to call in and talk about it. Shout to deal. Oh Hey D- Low was MINANCO shoutout to Taty. She's still there. Hey Haughty matter of fact is on the line right now. Hold on hold on honey. I'm going to be shot to Queens. Diane Hey Queen is a day one day. You still shot. What's wrong with you girl got to Borrow Leslie Hades Bora Free Ninety Nine. Would we do without this young lady? Yagi some love show a shoutout to Marlon. Would in the room. Hey Marley. That's the homie. That's the homey green is with. The green is ladies go to malls pasia Weber. Find Him. He's like skin. Green is Super Bouzis. Okay Super Boost Orion guy you a female. And you don't have green is not the baddest bitch. Don't even don't go with him. I said he's GonNa be very kind and polite but not in a disrespectful. Where else Disneyworld shot to Jon Benson? Johnny Webb aw report shot out to Anthony. Clark shot one man. You're anthony wants you to call them. Anthony clock is one in a basketball league right down here in the Lehigh valley out today. I want you to call in. And he's told to see like six. Eight can only like the tallest guy neighborhood. He's the tallest got used to play basketball back in the day right now. He's a coach right or he could play a little bit but now he's great at washing tops of vans. I'm Dan shot to Richard Non Wolf Nation. I don't go nowhere. Wake up. Live free shoutout Qassim Griffin. Hey Qassim shoutout to. Ken Black said he hates that hat. Sean took beautiful or a Dago. Shot is Shayla Hall. Hey Shayla shots it Diane Diane Hall. Thanks FOR THE MUSIC. You sit in bed. Cirque DU shots in the Sun Washington heinous on shoutout to Laura Turner. Hey Laurie was going on girl. Shout to my mom Mama Setting. Hey Mom Howard later on today. What shoutout to Melvin Wagner? Hey Melvin we really appreciate you shots a Kenya Brown. Who just stopped in the room. Hakin Yada Yada a day you right now to do twenty five push up and put it on video and throw it in the group room. Stop putting up. Those pitches flexing on the in the bathroom with island flag. See Him at work. I want to see twenty-five. Are you up for the challenge? Radical guys you shout out to Hesse Stevens. That's causing all morning Sean. Stop with all. That was good. Shot to Reggie Harley. Good Morning Reggie chant. More SHOUTOUT TO PRENTICE COXSWAIN adjust stumbling. Libro was you're listening to the breakfast club out that I was very apprentice. Very dirty city was with. I know you was. I no hold on a second show morning show city body. Good Morning Hottie. Sean Morning Barbie. You guys doing. We're doing grave and I love you. You know that you're very smart. Women Educator is absent the only black women in the she lives in suburbia to. Don't get it twisted when we got a swimming pool. She charges thousands of dollars for people to use. But let me tell you this when we got it all together did you can't do what it is like. If you're down in the main and you'll have it all together like just sort of like mark with the green is stay away from Hawk hiding. You don't even say hi keeping pushing trying to pair of like. I don't like the fact that that Marin you know at the green eyed bandit you know is his bluesy. I don't like that. It sounds like he's not in northern. He loves himself. Talk Down He loves it. He very manicured. What NAILS HANDS? Everything is done Mike. God never want to stick his finger. Wallet Khakis Abalon Women Love Him. You know what I'm saying and the sisters at the same time his presence when he walks into the room. That's the shock is. He got that he got that Lionel. Richie would all right okay. Okay okay so listen. Saw is going to be at. The governor's comedy clubs on March. Second Three PM would have tidy and later. I will be giving you the names of the other comics. I'm trying to figure out what we're going to be a so harvey is a favorite Governance Comedy Club. Charities Pete Sorenson they love you in that thing because this long island. He's a he's a letter that educated at the say top. Phd's and sounds noting. Yeah Harvey Guy. Eagles thank you and you win. I might bring with me on my I mean he. He doesn't usually frequent places like like like Cafes shops a around women he has like a ten minimum band. Bits beautiful women in the building. He doesn't even want to be okay was going on it could of funeral. The persons in the casket is not a beautiful woman. He ain't going limited has been married twice. I've known mad and let me tell you. So I like I said four South Carolina. Imagine having all these men and a husband and house in Alabama and even you as a comedian and not with me and do an. I know women are more news and I don't know what the hell he's doing. Facebook man of the deputies for me of a real man he concern which edges in concern which at toes he concern. What that S. That's what a real man is about hanging looking. You see me. Ns a man this morning. I'm not saying that you're supposed to be working with Safiya. Combat and Achy and your house was not clean but I'll say it's about the definition of man because the purchase of a man is crop woman. He was covering black warm so they can have him. You a movie going on behind the match. Something I should know because he would I pay to ice cream? You say honey in all her accomplishments has late model pickup truck for real voice. I only I only mess with chicks and when I say bad I mean they own homes. They're beautiful inside now. Big Credit scores is good making Biden Essay and can write an essay. They could write a narrative J. US a four hour exam though civil servants. Make saying those are the contradict pay taxes so kinda bad body Fleming on talk about and none of the women that I you know some of them. Many of your part of any Dave and buster's a anonymous one of Arlanda Orlando's morning. You gotta be without. You're live likes to see as for as long as you. If you light a breakthrough safer life you better apple fan booty does I gotta I gotTa make sure you a black girl number one. Only real black with the exception of Haggi now hunting Sanish for twenty five years C. Span's even will hide his accomplishments in life. God has blessed though and I WANNA get back to your son's real quick even with the food in the house she lives. Since I'm gonNA tell which lives in central ally Willis the property already sitting the property tax is like a house in the Poconos even with these accomplishments and how novel very attractive young. Yeah Net Marlin will reject it. You talk about think about hey let me taste of the voice. Women take out you. Don't give all but let me get a truck. Good looking thoroughbred Sunday. Make a hundred thousand dollars a year. They Own Anyway. Ball go up even know what real man. That's why nobody will actually want. Short lecture help relational man. I just gotTa say he didn't listen to win with this. Beautiful Sons will accomplished that. I should say social when as a woman that has a men in her life a son with one of your sons. Come home or you talk you. See 'em all with and they're going through onto some situation what they girlfriends wide out brought. Go through wait a minute as a woman because as a man we've come a different direction like I came. He was heard by his chop. It up how do you as a woman when a man comes to you hurt because of a women a kind of like that conversation station about like say a real talking I I try to be transparent without giving out my social security? Menendez possible because I want to help the people in the purpose of of my my purpose on this earth is to treat and teach and talk to people right. I say rest in peace time he added. We'll be or WISCON- club tonight on the Turnpike for the Lyndon mantrap reunion and also Legend Apt Tommy Allen. Tonight at all his clubs. I just got to do that. Bug must have come to me and it's been it's been grill. I've seen IT I. It's not a good look. I've seen I've seen what that car looks like. And then I also know who their father's 'cause that's my son and so there bothering them in a Lotta Time Golota Johnston me. And establishing don't listen and when it when men including you don't respect men don't respect women you. GonNa suffer as much and I don't care if you look at if you look in there because at the end of the day you can take your exterior. I've never seen a U haul. The Hannah hers. So you can take a Wiegmann. If cancer hit your disease issue beauties and the ad the beholder. A matter of that looks at that. Now my son don't give me while they can't be bringing if she can't use coal dobruna bombs black. I don't expect you to bring right now. One of my sense is actually dating a girl who went to high school. And she's other than Brad. This school and says for now is just get over. It's like trying to get over something you go to something else. I'm not trying to like deal with that. But you know I'm not really fond of it because I don't think anything wrong with it and I think I'm black. We know that one get down. Put Up pitcher the Puerto Rican princess. How did you feel Hoti I? Of course we gotta take a break. How do we gotta take a break is pointing? Landau Plymouth Rock and his party. United States was you'd be able to speak Spanish. Okay. Honey. We're GONNA take a break gotten. I love you more high winning. Okay we gotta get married. I'm lonely right now. Woman has the laundry order largely on my bed in the shape of a man who hotties please love. God Can I get out man? I you don't practice ain't enjoying it own Doodo prejudices pal I appreciate. I think you posted up a picture. One ear five one day and I gave you the big I'll Emoji. He had like one of them had like. How do you stock your page? Now I'M GONNA be out here. You need to actually not knocking daughters around Sabi home. Take a short. She does not. She's not best. Taylor Shaw Oliver. How are you girl? Let Tasha James Rand Girl. You crowned don't take took a member of the week are we did because Lord knows that. Show morning show city Bobby. The morning was born on the world. Will tracks come on tracks. You'LL WANNA hold on everybody? Everybody in the chat room. Everybody clap man. The one and only Mr Footwork's from that's right building. China light shower. Just Stop Sean will. God bless you brother Robinson's other? Cj Jay that's million looks. This man makes entertainment. Look so easy he does. He grabs a microphone. And next thing you know he likes to go to a point by point swag connects you know. He gets on the microphone. And then everybody's that's right. He makes everything looks so easy. I don't know I guess I guess for human means you know so I guess but that's all about him you know it's all about having a clear voice the smile you know how you always say. Sean your your your life is a vacation dry. This guy's the same way. Not Like I call. We'll we'll tracks money in the bank because when you pay don't get the job the job is gonNA happen. I Tri- will let these folks know where you from originally Bronx salaries section of the Bronx hold on his turn. Hold on says any the be ex will all the legends of born the next. That's where I'm from sending me to. Yoke cine sweats was invented in the B. X. Without the jets would be no hip hop. Jesus Jesus Christ was born in the Bronx these'll soundview projects with the James Monroe in a of a side will only been in the rap game plan right now. I got like I'm a I'm officially. I'm officially closed. Twenty five years in twenty five years in Augusta giving up some momentum C. D. C. up experienced that I'm still trying to find a vein now but Acute show cause for me You Know Rockingham mixed tapes are doing this right now or even like you hit on the role pretty gun. Ninety five ninety six C. J. had a universe allows one person in your life and then they take you to another level and then you go on and then then all. These other opportunities happened to the hard work get. This is hard work right. People will right. People think that like what we do is easy. This is not easy will does this for a living. That's why I challenge in when people go up there and go yo I could. I could rock the party. Just as just as bad as we'll track right saying But you got a day job which your job and battle will tracks been homeless in a month. It's hard I'm hearing everybody out there. Don't you love? It is a hobby to you will and I do. This is not a hobby. This is what we do. So you gotTa have that super talent will sir. Why are you book or in his book so much? I can't even bring them on. We'll check out here in a will your why you book so much of it in your talent. What makes you know been all this? Have you said it best impression first impression? So say these people math or face-to-face. You're already feel good spirit because in and then at the end of the team and you all hockey somebody like these like with all recognize. You've got another vaccinate if you'd be recognized by somebody and everything could buy okay. Perfect Marshall Iraq. Killing you go to those Rusen better but now it's like a chain lashing. I one job. I've been able to see like in medical like any profession of than the talent. He's he's he's time picking up the phone. He's got good energy if he could do the show. He can't if you could. If you can't do it here let you. Not How many Tuxedos and soup. St Has he can. He's like the Dean Martin L. You wear that she. You just said that because you know like I TRY TO SPLIT IT IN HALF I. I'd moved back for training. You even when it gets cold I roll. Markley skin six three and actually my through town Johnson trash and evil. I'm Brownsville Houston thing. 'cause I actually I was like I go up and down because you know in my business out there and then you know seeing so I'm care myself I'm good you know. Show off down through Florida. I'm not that you can skinny ones. And the mini nice rising coming up to see one of the keys to his assess. You can't keep it unless you give it away give ways give stuff away to the homeless that like this. Guy. That's great will. We just recently did a full week before before. The Corona virus was out before it had it will. Abe Is Denise in the in the Chat Room. She's listening This stall Glue I look at World Trash and other entertainers and I take things from them and see how professional is but he's not that entertainer that drum sloppy cursing folks out. Being annoying is being loving and caring again on. Stays at all articulate three. Well how did you come up with this song? The first song the footwork's Had It is sitting down. Is this man a work for the rest of his life over that once. I know Song Party Song. Right exactly like that. It's like Michael Jackson off the wall right into right. There was the installation of vassal before the awesome. That's GonNa go to test the well known work That I work with all instrumental of it was already data and one. You know what I'm saying so you've God not be worrying that school so you know me here. I'm like something else that got done. One night parties. It'd be playing so I don't know what it was. I guess it had to be lady. Well when I walk by me. I let the shoes you know saying you know decisions any Memphis. Somehow you know like like spirit moments in my own. She's biked was moment like she's so quirky and then some reasons. I one Friday night with hers. I can use them and I had to be paying like about three thirty four thirty three three thirty four the money I call it. I like the world is quiet. That's only And I'm that Pete Rock and I'm like hey it's a party in the fringe and my wait hold on. I got up there call partner DJ. And I might your kitchen and I have some horn so you try to leave. The other. Says he had been for the ski trip and only did like half of the soil. But it was with the promoters being so if I was just like a good diverse browsing so I was like okay. Shaw then you see so and so where so like I promoted and that was it on back you gotTa pick the First Avenue in the national system. Seems like it all comes together. How it all comes together because he put that work in the universe allowed. He's at all the parties supporting guy even when he's not partying. Now before we get into the next song will know you have a successful you in Kool-aid do a successful sedating grown folks get together on a Monday night in Hallum. Yes I've been in many of times is the after work for grown folks and for folks like you season and everybody's in their evening hookah the whole thing and we'll tracks and Kuwait and all of us are in name and it seemed like Monday after work is like a Friday or Saturday night with the audience about Monday night before we get into the look. How did that come about you? Know for every Kennedy said like I said it was all pink and macgonagall star and Rocking up that Charon and you know that was like we did like the four years here is to look for years and years all so all could get seven years of watching things being brand not being not being even messed up. You know what I'm saying just like somebody who was just like this definitely thing for seven years as long as crazy as you coming in this really giving is like a seven six thirty seven o'clock in the evening every plan then you gotta come to airline Gene Ready. I where is where is it? Where is the location will on one one? St Avenue scored Rennick Sapphire Twenty seven. Th Street minutes avenue right there right down. The block from hall will affect you know first of all thank you. Let's have one for calling in. Thank you for finishing schedule this week. I'm crazy I'M GONNA. I'm all over the place we we'll get into. That will shine a light on of city Gash. That that's so the Almighty Jesus Christ and I sent Jesus was born in the Bronx. You Did the light all of city. Well our talk to me. What was the inspiration on city like every age you could be five years old and ninety seven everybody shining a light on cellphone light sliders Adam far on and off the lights Brown Coal China and I was six years old so two thousand fourteen server and all the crazy thing about schlongs like I was asking just acting so once again. This started Martini. Monday and You know at the end of the day. Not Everybody celebrates the Berkeley. So you're from where I sat there might be. A bunch of people will be here celebrating birthday and you'd have to somebody celebrity birthday and at the end of the day. He owns chopping somebody in the corner. They've birthday you never get a chance to see them. You can't see them year. Can't see here. You can't do it without any day. I might Hawan call right John. You know what I'm saying. Jeff from beaten at somebody noticed with them. Because you know somebody's property dark. Never get to see the purpose so at the end of the day is night. I'm saying that sometimes make noggin truck. That's basically what it is so but actually put the lights on like you know. Put them and let them the big show in the polic- from head to Toe. Sheen's we are is on. That's my thing. And then at the end of the day using shot and then off of that basically China right on anything. That's that's that city. I know you're not gonNA believe because you teach matching checking city. I was around when he developed his song at Martini. Mondays at the tavern. You is around hold on us in the studio when he was you know he will. Google does he. Does it all inspiration with the crowd as he's doing it right over conclude kitchen with the shot and right but I mean if any songs other than work against also working from home so everyday life is just everyday life everyday everyday life this stuff to be successful? That's what we're going to be successful steps to be succession only comes from the Bronx. That's Me Mel was born in the Bronx New York City Jay Limited winds will was doing all of this and a lot of his inspiration is right there at the. Party's this was back in my drinking days any I used to go to Osi Taboo on one hundred thirty eight th street. Get Drunk as hell right at Mancini Mondays when they were in the Bronx of course then I will go to Harlem to mock allowance and tell the jokes I would get drunk at one spot and tell jokes at the sounds exciting. And then they moved to harlow. Well write it detainment and what we need you still there. On Mondays. They still Monday. Refner will just Martini Mondays. Every Monday on Safiuddin down there will rest watch. A career of relationships groupies running out of the club sex in cars baby buggies crashing party. What Chick one-sided room I've been there have you been this. Everyone believed as back in the reckless days. I've been unkind. That'll do that stuff. No more guy then Golfer. Jesus we'll have you ever been a situation where you had two or three in in the room. And he was on the Mike and he said Let me footwork out of his club car. I've never I never had enough stress. I mean insulation where I had to be like that. Don't say so. My situation was ever Nice Benson but everybody has. They respect inspected John C. soon. He's not seen as you go right there. You go see what's that was that was all and now the relationship. I'm I'm showing must have been there done that and I'm the specs you know what I'm saying if I've never had no bobby dishes. So that's why when we bypass initiatives and name the spot attribute alone because we had as sending me tell you something right now. She's probably listening on his. He's probably standing right next to. This woman is absolutely trust me. I believe that mall in. We want to talk to this one but he came in Gaza. So you see what I'm saying. See again like people. Don't understand that that swab like for me. Cindy Jane I behave as a professional because the deal is this will and myself have in common is with very easy to find so you could come to our job because you can see it on a flyer and you could come in there and call all kinds of Ruckus because of the way we behave right so we refrain from that behavior but Sydney will tracks and myself can't go to nobody else's job. We don't know where you work. We can't 'cause no Ruckus so on the flip side of that we behave a certain way because we don't want that energy and then negativity in the club the promoter the whole it gets very messy war you for your behavior. I think you should run. For the mayor of soundview in the Bronx speaking of sound inability brexit speaking of south view. And then we get into. Which Newman cine ended bronx in the young? We have certain days in. I would neighborhood like where I live on one hundred sixty thirty. Nfl we have a Rogers Day. Rogers Place Eight Day. Forest bubble will and sal view their famous for this. Dj Hot Sauce is going to be digging hop sources from Saudi. Wouldn't want is your annual soundview day out there Well first off any nothing like what's going on out here. That's when everybody get the governor summertime. We find out who died in the wintertime. We party. I first Saturday an audit by that sound. You will recall and the pack up and he vote. The vote will go well. I'm going to go. I'll see you in August. Brow will help before it will let let folks know. What are you doing this weekend? What's going on? And how can they find you on social media? Let's talk thank you for calling. You know social social media face you know world tracks of your She expects on social media. It's my name backwards distracts world's CR X W L. And and like I say some sort of a phone from this afternoon and I gotTa Show Jerry. Tomorrow in Charlotte come back. Come back Sunday for charity which during the half and our so our cars and of course the files on weekends throughout her service that's in North Carolina going to Carolina next week and he's going back home my goodness. Oh hottie wants to have him at her show. Maybe you should worry that our work. I work I work that out. As if he's available walking hot I get a will out there to love out the Long Island. Cine this man is doing a photo shoot this afternoon very humble. He's very funny. It's a pleasure to be around. This guy helps two homeless. I know well quality worse following train. All everything is grown sexy with him right. It doesn't tell you one thing you gotTa know about will and we'll share this before you go City he doesn't like the ratchet or the turn up. He's not doing that now. Anything is possible. Anything is possible nope we will do it just at Daveramsey Shit just frankly and at the wrong what is it will do anti wrinkle in party right all right. Well listen we gotta take a break men and again. We'll thank you so much for doing this for us at the last minute you know. I love you to death was a good friend of mine and I truly appreciate you and we wish you so much success in love and health and wealth men. We appreciate it. I appreciate you to feel good rally. I'm over from the why factor taking. I'm probably your time. Officially takes his fly shirts and take it to the homeless shelter as close to Salvation Army. And they don't even sell it. Keep it I will. We love you brother. Thank you so much for you. New Song the minute the jump shot Oscar jump shot shot. He's going to send it on over email address. You see what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Seattle now at career right now. I'll take the tea right here on this phone right now. Okay cool cool. How Angel in that did you guys enjoy that will attract. He's sending us an exclusive new track right now. We're going to play. Dj can get his issues together. We're GONNA get Haughty Taty Sean just to try and make that happen though. I'm not I'm not GONNA try. We're GONNA make it happen. We're going to make it happen. Make it look like he busy. And how does she have a basket firm mascots? The morning started. Just what a great interview. You did a great job. We'll tracks love you. You know you always doing a great job Sean. Great interview questioning quake. Questioning doesn't for great so we'll tracks is like and I love the that he's a humble beloved. You can really tell. I haven't gotten a chance to really see a full performance. I've seen him even. They're far on a big club somewhere that I would really love to have them at the methodist show and if he's available on once. I definitely we're GONNA make it happen. We're GONNA make it happen. We'd go if he's available. We'll make it happen show. I just blanked out. We gotta go Hoti is on it. Napoli she's GonNa make sure she goes talk you you guys. Heidi will be colleague. Game Up until March twenty so a city of quick. And then we're going to announce the chapel mobile week. How are we sitting on another remember in a week? Doubt Harry G point to city. Ooh That's right prentice. We have an exclusive. You got you pick Harry up mcclatchy. We play any other yellow. Everybody who evening you I don't know about. Hey Damn Rusty Rodriguez. It is a feel-good Friday. Happy Friday to you. We are glad you made it into the room to day. We hope you guys are all loving the show. Please share and like like this video. Throw it up on your wall. Invite your friends we have been having so many new people is also good friends. Yeah also really good friends with world tracks and Denise so hard more show Sydney Sydney. Bobby's fine initiative so bad of ready ready we're GonNa do the God bless Batman. God bless bless less good is say that s up tonight. Yes gotTA squeaky Yes. She's awesome. She works on Fridays as poor freshman. Freshman breaking now okay. God bless their. She's she's amazing. Nessin another good friend of mine all right. Let's let's let's do this. We come back when Davy chat remember the week. He will will right here. Who is it GONNA me on? What we mean kicked off twin problem over. Yeah I know that we know him basically still not GonNa let us rob track. You know. Listen we want to hit right? Cloning Keith Work Hope. Y'ALL ARE DANCING. Or maybe you standing up and show job. We're going to get shot. That's right Turner gets your band saw. Everybody Liv originally put work. You guys are GONNA be right back we're GONNA. We're going to ask how many things that I like to give me. Oh good riding today. Doing footwork sweat. Hearing for breaking appreciate put Manual Wig Wig Work Matt Ryan. Somebody not feel the league. Is John Paul? Everybody's getting some air like I do. Singers like a Weirdo. GotTa get some air and sinning against some air. The young lady just walked in the Salon in on yes and actually she wanted to come come in on Tuesday. Okay say hello to everybody I would imagine. How are you GonNa Money? I come near Salah. Enjoy their spot. Enjoy NAIL SPA. Yes that's the way in. The back is very beautiful coach. Yes what's your name is Sandy Sandy. Oh Hi Angie. I'm sending Jay Nice to meet you. She's absolutely beautiful city. Don't leave me now. They love you. Sit down sit down to come in here on to talk after the show. She can advertise business here in the building. That's real businesses. Doctor ends behind us. And yes the doctor over there. And do you do the acupuncture to acupressure? You do that or no on our sorry. I thought she did that to have the accuracy of the salon. Okay now with which you can do at the No Salah Watson why? So we're GONNA do is go. She's GonNa go to come back on Tuesday done. I literally just got very like. She didn't want to be shy. City Kebab. Top. Or that you'd be calling me. She's not coming out rabbit. Asian women all Black Man. Just grab an agent. Don't subject because I really don't I really don't have anybody to bail you. I really do want to but I have to go live for a little bit. Have a little telephone to bail you out you. WanNa keep grabbing. They know the cash to the show sitting. We dedicate the show on Fridays to listen. Yeah we'RE GONNA shout out the room that we got it name. Chat Room number two week shall harvey morning show city body everybody will Robinson J Comedians in Pennsylvania? Hey will robbins discuss hilarious onstage and I want everybody feel? Don't mind follow him on social media. He's a good friend of mine for years City yesterday when he was out was talking about women with with the crazy sexy. I know if you've heard all that we'll talk about his baby mother before his wife she was creating screw drive at the door and now he has his beloved wife. There was for five years and then the name married. They've been together fifteen years twenty years combined and I suggested to him to keep the love. Galway's city jade runaround bananas negative house now and when she gets sent a picture of a half new pitcher just the chest with the jeans and the Thames on with the fit with the Gangsta. Look you want him to send to his wife that as home. I'll say what you would that be only. I'm sick and I'm leaving work exactly. I'm coming right home. Boo in a sixty Barbie. Well said that he was going to report back. This morning would happen last night. You did that well on that so I don't know what does it happen or not. He said if I if I can remember correctly that his wife comes home and nine o'clock at night I believe And then he has to go to work. She Works Today. He works the night he out here. They have a fourteen year old son so I told Australian out the House senator. Some loved one. Well right he's suggested Sunday. Stay downstairs and they'll run around in. The bill will our first quiz because everybody wants to know everyone including me. Because I wasn't here yes. Foresee West is prejudice Cox and there was no prentice is the name will the first question. Is We dedicate this show and try to listen? Take a half nude with bare-chested jeans on Thames with the TILT SIZED CITY. Jane would that low gags the look. They're just sitting there Pitino. Wife come on go pitcher to K- get that asshole on hold on Sydney Sydney as a woman pitcher tim boots only Doug. Life Thug LUV Second chance how would that convey? I wouldn't really resonate with me. I'd be like what is he talking about route glove. You want me to love the damned just by those. I would be confused. Oh I just bought for you. But they'd be big if they're issue. Does she bottles? Yeah like what's going on so I would think he's trying to be funny right instead of seductive right right. That's what I'm thinking right. This she replied to the To the attacks with the with the belt love shift I mean at the end of the day. It's a lose nine. Nagas Chaka's talk about longitude. It's wide a relationship too. Raunchy out in your car on your bench. And he he. Hey Hey hey I'm a single lady. I need someone to hold me at night and I don't have a wash and dry loop parliament. Okay please act like you know. I'll be okay. Well we'll see what he did. Did you send a pigeon national thinking so when she came home and not o'clock at night is that comes from that? Was you a negative happens. When she comes home she goes right into the show right. I know this so since I knew that was going to happen. I've figured out a call in show. I'm GonNa make scum happen so I just joined in the show but I'm like a big Scott Guy like it does. Look sexy like leadoff past looking pig. I got him on some things around. Praying tetris sounding. Wow we're little city might be a climax story all right all right so so this obstacles obstacles in a way. Hey let's just take it to the bedroom like no sure harvey you want to hear. The story can now take the two bedroom hop from us and we try to do something one. Pm toiling breaks allure highest. Why coz rolling up the check on his geriatric parents we finally we take it to the barrel. But we didn't run around his neck chasing each other like you suggested congress shade around a little bit. You know we did. I think. Sounds very haphazard. Swallow played spades. You by the way speaking to you back our. She don't want to work well. At least you try. We'll we'll seen where we do will lobbies. We will give them two weeks down. Haven't called that anything right. At everybody in the chat will please give world from suggestions acid running around but as they did the same thing as a with a twenty year relationship he got in the shower and she let me tell you right Dan. Will you break this time around? Hey Man I got bad knees man. We just sashayed. Well okay. We appreciate and we're going to do is the spice of wills marriage. Yeah we need you to try again. Well we're trying to. We've got trying to number two weeks. I figured admitting over twenty years sacrifice money with right so they have everything sounds right so we'll do two more weeks in our call. We'LL WE'LL WILCO. And we'll all give suggestions is get this thing. That's right even though he loves his wife and a great relationship we just wanted to put a dabble porn hub in that thing. Yeah right Gotcha. Well God bless I bless God bless God bless one more meeting of bananas giving Him All types. Dang Dang mistakes. If you WANNA set the picture your wife would already had some ideas when she got home. Is that a leaving it all up to yourself. Come on everything you need to win a certain point. Men Don't WanNa be the mandate houses. No more your wife. You step up gone down. How tired you are. We going to freak fest Thursday night to. Oh wow onside cash on his slut. Oh Wow what town we are back. It is never stop believing yourself believe in you. It is filled with Friday city Janus Friday February twenty first twenty twenty seventeen minutes at the welcome back Sean. Harvey Morning Show featuring CJ offer co host Barbie Wig more than started right when you place on Earth where you get your morning Star Trek. This is weird and get you more. Love to chat room was wide open. Please call five zero nine eight six now. Five zero broadcast live on Radio. Dot Com iheartradio Shaw them on the show dot com county warning radio and facebook lie. Please like in Cheddars city. Real quick briefly pundits givers targeted because it does give us a little city love personality in this region. I said that I said that. I said that can't dispute it if you want. Come see me up in Bethlehem Pennsylvania where we broadcast from daily. It is currently twenty five degrees going up to a high of thirty nine and it will be. Sonny's maybe can catch a little bit of that warm in New York City. It is twenty five degrees and they're going up to a high of thirty seven so it will be sunny there today as well in Orlando. It is currently fifty two degrees Going to a high of fifty seven and it will be cloudy in Hotlanta. Thirty four degrees going up to a high of forty six and it will be partly cloudy and in Los Angeles. It is currently fifty five degrees going up to a high of seventy five and it will be mostly clear and sunny so shout out to everybody out there. That is the weather that we have let us know what the weather is. Like where you are city Jay. Thank you so much and well set before we shut out a shot room and shopping and they would sink a big event. We got two events coming up with the one on Mondays. We are going to Brooklyn. Cj why are going to the Barclay Center CJ? Whoa Friday April seventeenth. Why is your comedy show with just hilarious? I love for angry. Davis love him. The World Famous Monique. Why on this j. One by mail? Risen Michael's watt opening with Ross one week? Ob the building. I have in cash me thirty dollars. The ticket is thirty dollars. Ya All that all of them have been speaking. Hey this is what this is a lot more. Comedians will be added. No disrespect job and they listen to. Do you want the our beat air out? Then I'm there now. I pick up the physical ticket next week. Mike Kidnapped Bird Lover. I'll pick up the physical get back in town but I suggest your cash at me when when I go to tickets from Barclays disbursed and I'm going to be in the Bronx Prentice Holler at me. It'd be right down the block from Princess Clarksville boss. I will be here. Come on I think they have wheelchair accessible there. He's good everybody we bring. We're bringing Allentown Bringing bringing the Poconos we bring in Jersey. We bring in New York. We all have our old section. The ticket is only thirty dollars. Act Dope you'll have to give you the thirty dollars money. You Act gone ticketmaster. They're gonNA charge twelve hours so you thirty dollars forty two so I got know I got you know cash at you. Cash out the song him on the show with the cash out as a off night. So get your tickets. We all go into the Barclays Center. Saying that's Friday April seventeen. Plenty of time. Get your out there you gotta right now. I national nasty was completely over the arena. The arena completely sold out last. You cut so get you bobby and few of US would be backstage were boss. Showing WISCON- Co branded t Jackson sending. He's on the show and he's calling in. These are all my favorites in. Ej Alessio Brandon T. All these stars will be calling in this show closer to the date so please hit me up for the ticket is only thirty dollars math. That rep is also and then only thing grit. Michael's the host he recordings. He's promoting this this his vint right a black man who rented out the whole Barclay Center city own resort out. That's right so money is how he's GonNa call in. This well loved everybody. We all going as a group city. Jake that's right. Got The ticket. Hit me up. Get the ticket now clearly before they hit me up. Joe Shaw Ticket Fifty Dollars. Now oops when he's saying like I'M GONNA MEET WHIPPING. Outta town next week following. I'm GonNa meet him at the Barclay Center where I could get the physical tickets but I want to send me the brand. I'm telling you right now. This is how this is GonNa work. I would get the ticket but weapons rip is all over the place. And I'm all over the place is seventeen. Cj Sean Harvey Morning. Show wake up team Sidney J bobby. Cologne would be in the Dow so exciting various on my favorite people brandon t Jackson. When do they have Senate now arena wants to know? When do they have to get the ticket by now arena? You're going to be there girl. My son coming baby show up so much fun. I can't wait who come one out. Cash Abbie Hoffman. Or this buying my outfit at this week and actually just catching up our cash at the input your name one foot comedy jam s Harvey Warner Show. You could do that. I see we are back. Where shot off the room looking at my mom's should we cash at the money? You're not going city. Was there in the places completely sold out. Uk Did a great job on is fascinating. American man. Put Down opinion on this same rebel. Social matter of fact there's a new report on rebel soldiers. They Update Mama citizens. Okay thank it was two made the newspaper ad for it. How Bolivia rebels forced if Terry word sitting? We are going to shout out the Chapman. I'm going to show them. Some love is sitting at the we. Show them some love. We're GONNA announce the chat room number of the week. I think that's what we're going to do on this action packed. Show Oh my gosh now. My Mom's we talked about her going all this other stuff on. I'm Jay Rose Has D. Davis Ray so funny because I I want to get a picture with him but we'll go see you'd be backstage attaching since my accidentally slip following somebody off. Yes now blessed coach update. Now hold on before you update is remembered has enriched of Richard Nine our beloved notice. Gothi yes and you did the right thing. He run around internally selling things on on Intergroup without axe purchase a commercial and he did it the right way and he and he also blessed us with merchandise. And we talk about Richard. Every day and I want everyone please to visit a Richard Nine Wolf Nation Apparel and support his movement again. This is another African American man just like Kelly from Whose Purchase Commercial Kelly Pharma dies unlimited. Same thing let's support each of the right way which we saw demob shadow call is calling Cohen. That you've got snow on the new product. The market You guys being love. Colds are ready set. The website is production. Should be running with the next two or three weeks according to Of the by the next thing is And get you the the car. No the postal the youth. Out in visuals. Hookah Bernie and itself is selling grow boarding as if the Animal Sydney will silly definitely articulate. That is wolf with a. U. W. so we had signed it for you go global. I know it's really nice. Really got sponsor the show which none Bobby Colin Powell and Colin. I nate forgive. You probably not shirts. I just did just arrived so I'm GonNa give them to her. You Guys Josh Limited something about this guy. Cj Ladies this guy has the perfect did he. Does he takes the perfect con selfies. I know I can never take the shades on the beard fitted the wolf nation this guy. He's winning his second take so he got the beard go. How's that been going sir? Thank God bless God bless God bless Richard. Say God bless God bless God get our city you go into. Let's yeah Richard will go to a whole `nother level with the city and he's taking those woods he's taking his whole brand he's going to pick it back what we do. I love sending. We are going to shout out the woman this folks in Chevron pause everybody of you never met Princess We'll all April seventeenth you will. That's right that's exciting. That's right so have we want to show Sydney. But I'm going to pose ring here city. Hold on everybody's show sending Jason La City J. Lives this topic. Well sitting their own second. Hold on you're sitting there wasting your time. You have some talent. There's room for no talent like Cindy J. C. I'm glad I love Bobby. Withhold doing hold on I love of God blesses God's got more companies by this thing. They'll move without you shine show. Harvey Morning Show. Wake up to you this. Hold on before you talk. We dedicate the show Friday to listen. God bless lash an electric channel under Shanghai. Wait a minute God bless Oh. I'm wearing a sweater jeans and boots. I'm at Work Motorola's Satan Morning. Show Cine Bobby. Hold on a second hold on. Hold on the the more we gotta go. We gotTA GO. GotTa go has mazzone phone. Oh Lord God bless shop zone. The phone on the other line up for US came to finish show. Boron I want to give you a shout so missive when you're here. I think listen a lot and like today awesome. Strike just hearing it. My little wheezy laugh. Thank you work with before you say goodbye. Wait a minute God. Bless you taught us my. How are you have park yes? We're once like I said I want everybody's so Sinisa makes you today that they even though we got love for Bobby Cologne up a saw I saw I saw pictures of a senior. We use talking. Her page wasn't very attractive. Young Leasing of course your time. Sydney Sydney is very disturbing that. Everyone in your family's life skin but the dogs light skin and everybody's pretty as hell including has more good how I can't help. It has my. He's his own Abuna West Coast In April I'm coming out. We'll pick on other. We're traveling. Can we knew Vitas this this morning. How wonderful even. When she was younger she was so talented. And it's why she's here Steiner one by see that no less and I agree with you. Know if you heard me talk. People hate when I say things that I don't care I'm being honest. That's what makes this show number one. I'm GonNa do the God. Bless him star. First you go second verse. Sexy she died. She has a nice voice ready to take my jacket off relationship. I'm GONNA go first. God bless principle it's Mojo opening Hogan's godless has over here John. Les We're GONNA DO. I have. That was great. Wants this show. I have no idea where this show is. I don't know what time and so suddenly as I go. No we still have other stuff to do a heart attack chat room. Hey during the chat chat with Heart Chapman to ten. Let's go to the heart set. Win The heart sac away the heartache heart heart down. Hey where? The heart set apple. What is what bullying Freddie. Hey where the heart sac in chat rooms. Did Ken Chiampou Chat Room chat rooms. Take ten chat. Let's go down where the heart sac with a heart set. Aware the were. Hey where the heart sac or reservoir star doubtful way with heart. Sach away what what shots the room. That's a cousin that just called. Hey has ma shoutout to lose Sean Brown? Oliver Acre shot to Juliet Fagin. Juliet shout to Robert mcfall. Hey Robert Shoutout to denise Gareth. Hey Denise how are you shots? Markets One EMOJI. Johnson haymarket shot out to Tanya Merrett? Hey Tanya yes. Welcome to the show. Welcome shot up to Marita Simmons. Hey Maria shot out to Latisha. Briscoe girl shot out to Shelby Lawson. Hey Shelby shot out too damn Rodriguez. Hey Dan shout to Tina Culbertson. Hey Tina shout out to Julius gala shop shot to Sabrina Lawrence shots at bay. Thomson Avis Denise Shot Crystal Ronnie. Hey krystal shadow. Christie Cassandra who stopped in for a second shout out to Nicole Harris Hanukah. Shout out to latasha James Branch Halo Shoutout to Valerie. Thomas who is in second shutout to Natalie. Turner and Steve Williams. Hey y'all things for always rocking with US shot out to Robyn Brito. Hey Robin coming to Brooklyn with us. Yes and she came with her lovely daughter to the Valentine's Day party. It was great seeing allies. Shot out to Reggie Harley. Hey Reggie shoutout to Kenya Brown workout. Caning Shout Melvin Wagner shutouts in the Sahn Washington shutouts Adela Andrews shoutout to Diane Hall. We said a whole shoutout to Lynette. Nazi-era no Halen that shot to Shelagh Hall. Hey Shayla shoutout to wander Santiago Shopper and George Happy Birthday George. Shout to Ken Black. Hey Ken shot out to Deborah Free Ninety nine Lesley Hey bull shot out the CASSIM Griffin shot out to Richard Nine Wolf nationwide for you whether you wake up live free right down to it on your forehead shot out the Anthony Clark. Hey Anthony Shot Johnny whip shoutout to Marlin Woods. Hey Marlin bandaged shock to Queen Diane and Tell Your Boo. We said hello shot out to Heidi Taty DA. Make sure y'all go out there March twenty first okay does antic were shot to the. Ad Low shot to roll garrison hero shots Virginia. Wait Hey Virginia shout out to squeaky pinkish girl shot out the Jennifer girl shot out the DJ star Boogie. Shout out to sea liddy shoutout to look Sean. Haney shoutout to China lead shot up to Crystal Jones shot cunera Williams shot out to tenure Washington Nathaniel Jones. Shot so well. Robbins make it do what it do everybody so we know two weeks two weeks this weekend. Jumper bones shot to tricky. Lou is a tricky twenty dollars. Tricky shots Veneta. George Henry he and shot out to our wonderful cohost Barbie Cologne. Y'All show her some love over there with her hands and somebody had shot out to Melvin Wagner and that is all the names that we have right now I read your thank you shine sitting for the door with the city. We are going to announce the chapel member because if not we take we'll take a quick quick break and then we are going to close out the show. We added absolutely nothing but we have a whole lot of fun doing it today. We did. We should we be awfully got nothing but it was not nothing had mighty. Taty Paula province. Call the borough. Leslie called in passing a call. Then wow shoutout. Y'All this show was all about guy. Right aide the Nice. I'm here with my mayor. Nervous records traffic member of the Wean shot after practice practice. You still there. A shots apprentice four. How could we ever forget? Frangieh come to the show on April seventeen. I WANNA see there. I'M NOT GONNA go unless you Karl. I'm boy talk. Show if you don't go markets WanNa Monte John's said why didn't you say today in talking about Louis Lease please do so your home to the family over output in the other routes tomorrow nate December nineteenth reach out to car pro twins so to win? So make sure you get there. Louie Vega here Lots Radio. This is how we do live in Times Square. Eighty worried about prentice going for your own personal reasons and I think it's a little disturbing we're going to be in the building. You guys make sure they're going to be a great show chart remember the song. This is kicking day. Shutout Sean for getting me. A coffee tickets for April seventeen. Yes Sean us to get the physical ticket from ref by cash him the money so it can just be. I'll believe sentences dollar harvest so do it as soon as possible allow was sold by the city. We're told him I don't have any. They can send him money now and get back to that. I got one thing. Madison the money. Now I'm a have everything organized I gotTa meet Rip for the Physical Young that this and the money. I'm going to meet with with the physical ticket next week. I got you. Just send them money. Because it's going to happen is you'll send the money. Then the taking tickets gone. And then I'm GonNa tell you right ticket on bump up the fifty dollars and they'll chicken mass is going to be sixty seven thirty dollars. Seventy five dollars. We can show on organizing everything with rips out of. He's running around. I'm running around. I got to meet him next week. For the physical. Pull of the ticket this. We need the physical analyst on this. You know. There's no list on this to Sean. Harvey free. It ain't none of that. You're going to get the physical ticket at some point. This is none of that and then what I'm GonNa do is when they the ticket. I'm GonNa work hard enough to where we can all sit together or you know just people can sit of course if you buy four tickets. You're going to sit together. I'm just trying to the whole group to get together so we're pet subpoenaed one hundred to two hundred people so yeah I would. I would like to say that we deal with the boat ride Simeon money. I'll give you this cinnamon. We get my mom. Why is the price going to bump up? Because that's what they do mom you you're GONNA be thirty dollars a day. Oh come on the week of the ticket price there. It's going to be subject to change going to do that. Which is led us rep and understand that this is African American. That read at this. This is his third year doing this rep so the net up so what we do is we are going to announce the chat room that we we've never done it this late in the show which we had our listeners made the show today and thank you yes we got started. What was the largest? That's right? And then it went from India right. Thank you Heidi. Thank you will has the borough who else called. Yes and will thank do now and before we do is we need a channel number. Two Week we played a track song. Then we get on audio. We get a new story and then we'll get on. Outta here We appreciate each and every one he also much For being a partnership I sit at the counter. Three we are going to announce the chapel number who the channel number two week next. Harry G Harry. You're done God. Bless you are a great chat remember. We appreciate shows right but joke snapchat room. You shared riposte. We appreciate you so without further ado on the count of three or going to announce the chat room number. We City J. Are you ready? I'm ready you should listen. I'm about to this thing at the counter three here. We go one two three day of the week. Hey chat room of the week. Hey chat room members of the we are a member of the week junction. Whatever your everybody. Every day through the lab through chat through the week after week passed through other week. Daniel Joan you chat room member of the week then you John's wart everybody chat room number other week.'. He doesn't say much call in shot out to unit Daniel. Everybody Congratulate Hill Van Jones. He probably owed person Redmond. Who Are you? Are You admit that comes here? Every day. Lesson showing love. Chatroom members are showing him super appreciate unit Daniel since one quick break and then one story we OUTTA here man. Everybody show them some love. We're GONNA play the wheel tracks on you. Always tell him he's the last. Daniel left the morning show city Bobby McCain. I have no fence Catholic. God bless you. Let's go to John. Appreciate you calling in squeaking God I because I want them to be backstage. Jor Care back in the morning. Talking about the selling was as hobby too. So it's a horrible inc. God bless I know? It's a lot going on this yard tracks. Scissors. What was to come therapy for. Let's roll just kicking step. That's what the latest we'll practice the frenzy world trump suit. The all came from the booth table shape massage kings island cat but never first class a little genetic. Can't see I got a nice coincides. Hey stats which would think if you for listening when you're your own got somebody to show up in the way like Spam Voice Citizens Party swatow bringing the Alabama. Musk taxed on the phone. Can't stop. Stop Fresh Jeff tracks with that jump shot? Y'All got to go get that now. It's probably out everywhere right now. We're GONNA leave but city remember last week the event and I'm proud of the events that we have yeah businesses always one right as far as on Kistler and thank God and I've made mistakes and businesses so now I know how to do things right and we had Alvin at the rebel social. Yes right which we let ninety percent of the vote century because they were paying for right. That's why I gave the tickets right. There probably castle show. I came out of my pocket. Log Chink productions and we still have the show. Because I still wanted aren't what we were doing. And it was part of me that we had to cancel the show because I I had to pay because we let her we do by the in for free so you can see quagmire right but my belief in what I do for a living supersede all of that and Chink deduction was glad at a grateful to find us at the jet court. People came out and they had a good time. Remember I wasn't there. I was in Connecticut because if I didn't do that show. There was threatening me the lawsuit right and I sorta pitches filtering in on social media and everyone was having a good time. So I'm truly blessed but the social workers in my Shea right so now. The news came on in the news down here. Hot halley right so city just equip because at the end of the news is affecting us right now right so we want to talk about it real quick right and I think everybody will come in now and I know Valley Tom. I don't like jet for me to do what can we do? We do we do now and she had retired. Yes and I appreciate everyone for. How could you if you don't mind this one quick story disciplines relatable to what happened to us last week yes well? It is in the news off. Y'All WanNa take a look ballots you know. As South Bethlehem hotspot for nightlife abruptly closes in landlord slash tenant disputes. We do rebel social which opened in November of two thousand eighteen at two seventeen. Broadway's shut down about two weeks ago. Round Valentine's Day all signs with business were removed Wednesday signs posted on the building's front door stated closed. But no trespassing video surveillance recording. There was also a letter dated October. Twenty third two thousand nineteen from attorney Gary Brienza stating his client. Greg solemn Mani you know him. That Shaun's friend was taking possession of the building in a legal dispute with T. B. S. venture. Lc that's the duke. Which owns rebel. Social right okay. Salomone who owned and operated the club Broadway social totally valley live dot com. Financial issues are plaguing future. Businesses with way are plaguing future business with his tenant Jay Patel who own that's J. and Priscilla Owen. Who came here who rank love Yasha? They hired her to be the general manager of the club. Righty over gossip. That's that group right. Oh my goodness Salamanca. Tens there was a default on the lease agreement They did not immediately respond to message request on the businesses facebook page for information. A female manager Celo who answered the phone Wednesday at a number listed Rebels said the business could reopen but admitted. There were issues that needed to be ironed out before they can move forward for now. She said the club in restaurant remained closed to the public and Salamone said he's searching for a new tenant to occupy the space so if anybody's interested in running club contact sal ammoniac You know they're saying that Broadway social time had to temporarily shut down in order to satisfy a Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board crackdown which included a freeze on its liquor license. The property also was the scene of various arrest by police and the liquor control enforcement agents over the years running. These incidents include but are not limited to stabbings weapons. Fight Alcohol Service to minors stay. Elise salomone said Wednesday. He calls Broadway social to spend more time with his family and disputes. What is described in the conditional licensing agreement? He also wanted to avoid a lengthy court battle that would derail the sale Broadway social and the pope in the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board went on to sign an agreement that required the liquor permit to be placed in safe keeping So yeah that's basically so everybody know what it is dispute. We Abba nothing nothing to do with us. Yeah Okay Right. Rishaad Patches Coxswain good revel so Dang Brennan tells you even though so in the next few weeks we have no place but that's what it is. They was a dispute financial the rebel see Cassini. But this place has been calling it open. Why Kusaeni the Lehigh? University is right around the corner from rebel soldiers and a lot of young kids come in their underage andy not zone they did not enforcing the policy of the state. You can't serve liquor on minors. Yeah says not with us. Grown folks has everything to do with the with the young folks. You have to police that. So they bring undercover agents and to force the law. And that's why the trouble J. Worthy Cause of young people don't either be paying like what what are you catering to these young folks an ankle so we wanted to just put that in the bed for let your nose really born one. And that's actually what I shared that when the whole situation went down a week ago right so that's it. Yeah we appreciate every week. We ten o'clock we appreciate each and everyone sitting. Where can they find? You guys can find Barbie Cologne all over the place you just have to type in Barbara Cologne facebook instagram snapchat. She on their look for her semi Whitney. You guys can find me at J. on facebook. Sani underscore Jay on instagram and sending Jay on snapchat to eat as a three. I appreciate all the love that Sean made you guys give me I appreciate. It was fake the richer crazy. I can't take a Monday morning. Willison we got the one and only I ramble on earth. Incredible Shire from the Funky for calling in four plus one more four plus one more one of my heroes would be calling in Monday at either event. Something really special for us that the number one without shower rock. You wouldn't have none none of your famous rappers. Female wouldn't be without her salon. We're posted in chat room a shamrock for because Monday also announcing they'll do all ahead to. Yes we're going to hang out there for the whole entire weekend. Yeah so all our new people come on in and enjoy this. I'll put the inflammation inputting cash after kitchen of tickets for the April fools at the Barclay Center city. We're close the show with jump. Shot without beloved will tracks. Thanks for showing US so much love. Tricky Charlotte a tricky Louis. Then the super tracks team tricky now with down with tricky knows. We'll track. Sir Gregory Young. What the Hell was in good morning? Good by Gregory Goodbye Young. I just we all have a good weekend. Hey Hey long trips to Mitchell. Get this well tracks. Joining shake massage. Game lasts a little fife is. We're leaving I gotta go. I got my mom's car because my apostolate working so that's why Linda's all in the show today make sure I get back on time. Mom I'M GONNA make a detour real quick. Somebody who let me see a jump shot by Kim? We love you guys. Don't forget this cash Sean. If you want to go to the show April seventeen. We hope you guys have a great weekend. We will be back on Monday in fact when everybody everybody going to be here. Thought we like to think that we live in a nice safe neighborhood. The truth is that a burglary occurs every thirteen seconds and almost without a security system is about three hundred percent greater chance of getting broken into Albany homes in your neighborhood. Were rock yesterday. You need to start protecting your home and family today. Call now to get state of the art protection to keep your family property safe. 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