2 Episode results for "Sue. Purnell"
118 Gismondi's Wage by Rafael Sabatini
"This is short stories. Podcast a production of adventures in audio dot com alone. I'm Robert Crandall casting from the adventures and audio asylum. Walk this is the podcast you come to Get away from it. All you won't find any politics or current events here. There are many places you can find that stuff. No matter what's going on we're not going to talk about on this podcast. No it's just me and the voices in my head that sometimes do strange things You know I heard. Recently that eighty seven percent of podcast consumption is done on mobile devices and only eleven percent on computers. Well I meant that eleven percent and just to know stick in the mud I guess but I like to sit in A COMFY CHAIR AND LISTEN TO BOOKSHELF STYLE. Speakers ear buds. Kinda bother me in headphones sorta due to I mean I use them from time to time but You know especially a story like featured on this podcast. The best way is to be seated. I think the lights down low. Relax don't think of anything else. That's the best way I find anyway. But however you listen and some of you then told me a listen at work. I hope you don't get in trouble with the boss. I mean he up however you lesson I hope you enjoy the show and if you do please tell a friend and if you could make a small donation that would be greatly greatly appreciated and you can donate on the website adventures and audio dot net. And while you're there be sure to check out the companion. Podcast POEM CAST and listened to a poem that I read from time to time and now a word from our sponsor me if you need a voice over for radio or TV commercial or corporate work like learning or slide shows. I can sink my voice to your pictures and videos and whatever else you might need. Semi-in email do row bear. Cc At g mail DOT COM and now for our feature story. This is a story of murder espionage. Gone Bad and death. I hope you enjoy gives Mondays. Wage by Raphael Sabatini Benvenuto is my feet and scoundrel sat his horse breathing hard and grinning supine and crucify warm with arms flung wide lay messer recipe in the snow. Grinning too but breathing not at all midway between four Leeann remedy on the long road that coming from beyond Bologna runs south eastward to the sea in a line of rare directness. Had this murder been committed in the full glare of a brilliant in January noon tide and no witness was insight as far as the eye could reach onward toward the hazy spires of distant remedy or backward in the direction of fourthly so well content Sir Benvenuto grinning under the shadow of his moron. Got Him down from his horse to reap the prophet of his mornings work. What though and falling the dying man had cursed him. It is true that. Benvenuto superstitious had kwait under the awful malediction from those writhing lips. But only for an instant he was as nimble with spiritual as with lethal tools and to avert his victims curse he had crossed himself devoutly and devoutly breed prayer of our lady of Loretto. Who's Arden Vo Tori? He had ever been moreover he war armor against such sue purnell missiles as the more bond had hurled at him the Scapula Larry of the conference. Unity of Saint Anne Hung upon his breast and back beneath his shirt to turn the edge of any curse however keenly barb easy therefore in mind unconscious he got him down into the snow all trampled and slushy where their horses had circled in the fight. And having tethered his own beast he fetched mess or Krispies. A cruel cut across the Hams that Senate off at the Gallop in the direction of four lay next. He applied himself to the garnering of the spoil. The dead gallant was richly arrayed. It was this very richness of his regiment. That had caught in passing the eye of Sir been through nudo and lert him by. Its Promise but the Raymond that had erstwhile tempted mock tim now for his prize. It seemed was guilt. Not Solid Gold. He rose from an unfruitful search cursing. The poverty of the dead man's pockets cursing himself for the risk. He had run in so poor. 'cause in weighing in his palm a trump ARY jewell he had plucked from krispies cap and the silken purse containing but some five gold pieces then in a frenzy half disappointed rage half greed. He returned to his investigations carefully piece by piece he examined his victims garments nor paused until he reached his skin but all in vain then he thought him of the dead man's boots he dragged them off and handsome though they were tore them souls from uppers in the ardor of his search. He had all but flung them from him in despair. When a certain stiffness in the leg of one arrested him there Keimei gleam into the foxy close set eyes thoughtfully? He rubbed his lean long nose in leered his perseverance had been. It seemed rewarded to rip the outer leather from its lining was an instance work. He withdrew package composed of several sheets of paper with this appointment. Rising knew he spread one of these swiftly his I played over it it was a letter couched in Latin and from that letter it was that he learned his victims name but more he learned for Serb Benvenuto had been reared for the church. By doting mother and had not yet forgotten the knowledge he had gained of the Latin tongue he learned sufficient to make his eyes gleam a new. He had chanced upon something. That might be worth a hundred times. Its weight in gold but not here not on the open road in the glare of light from the Sun drenched snow. Would HE INVESTIGATES PRICE? He stuff the papers into the bosom of his do bled and climbed back into his saddle his spurs dripping blood. He wrote his cruelly punished horse. Some three hours later into the town of Remedy Andrew Rain at the Stereo. Del Sole he had a way of command with him. Had measure is Monday despite his sinister face half Wolf Half Fox and though according to might have mistaken him for a lackey a lackey would have certainly mistaken him. For accord ear the host of the soul received him with all deference and since the common room was thronged with four G. and soldiers for the Duke of Valentin Wa was in town. He said a room apart for Messer. Gez Medes convenience there for an hour. The Rascal poured over those documents. Mastering the details of a plot aimed at the very life of the Lord taste of the Borgia. Details that the Lord Chase that he warsheh should pay for handsomely he would not stay up but rising presently he took his cloak and there and then directed his steps to the Palazzo where his highness lay after much questioning for CAISSOTI had grown cautious since the plot of Singapore some weeks ago. He was at last admitted to the bourgeoisie presence to tell of the discovery upon which he had chanced the duques slender shape play man. Finally featured Auburn haired with beautiful restless is WHO's glance. Fear into the rascal. Soul of measure. Gaz Mandi listen gravely to his tail and scan the papers which the mass daily. Oh step before him but surely his nature had been misrepresented to give Mandi for. He betrayed none of the ferocious satisfaction that the letter had looked see in him instead. He posed Gez Monday. A question that almost turned the villain sick was stunned. Apprehension so cold so deadly cold was do case. Studies Voice Come you buy these papers gives Monday? Paled he stammered? He was unprepared for this. He could scarce conceive that he had heard a right. He had brought the duke proof and details of a plot against his life. A plot involving some of the best blood in Italy a plot so far reaching that scare say subjected state of any consequence but was sending its envoy to the assassins gathering that was to take place that very night in remedy yet. The Duke could pause coldly to ask him how he came by those papers. As though so small thing could matter where so great. A one was at issue observing. His confusion tastes savvy. Smile and his smile was the deadliest that goes Monday. Had ever seen it turned the scoundrels soul to water. It froze the marrow in his spine. He felt his skin rough. Meaning like a dog's he sought in vain to dissemble but terror glaring from his eyes but the dukes smile grew and grew till it ended in a laugh short and terrible as they note of doom. I see he said and pushed the papers back across the table. Two guests Mundy. What is your name and under the play of those awful beautiful is gives. Monty answered truth feeling that he dared not lie. That to lie was idle chase. Saudi knotted shortly. Take you these papers of which in the way of your scoundrels trade. You had become possessed memorize their contents. Then go at midnight as the lettera points to the Palazzo Monte only played the part of measure. Crespi and bring me news. Tamar of what these conspirators intend and who their associates elsewhere gives. Monday fell back a pace. His Cheeks Blanche ing my Lord. He cried my Lord. I dare not chase. Eddie shrugged his shoulders. Oh as you please said. He Mo- sweetly and raising his voice. Lorenzo he called the captain in steel. Who stood by the door? All ears came sharply to attention. The Duke made a sign. Wait magnificent cried. The Messenger Dea startled by the fresh terror if I do this thing. He began and stopped appalled by the very contemplation of it. If you do this thing said Chase Eddie. Answering the uncompleted we will not inquire into the death messer Crespi our forgetfulness shelby. Your wage fail me or refused the task and the host. Shell Extract Confession from you and the hangman. Make an end of you. The choice is yours. He ended his tone. Most amiable does. Monday stared and stared to the beautiful young face so mockingly impassive his terror gave way to a dull rage and but for the presence of that captain in steel. He might not have curbed his impulse. To attempt to pawn the duke do anticipate the work of master krispies friends. He cursed his folly and setting trust and the gratitude of princes he mocked his own credulity and thinking that his tail would be received with joy and purchased at more gold than he could carry in the end. He staggered out of the Palazzo pledged to be take himself at midnight to the House of Manteo at the imminent risk of his life and assured that he would be watched. And that did. He fail to perform the task. He had undertaken the risk to his life would be more eminence still. He spent the interval closeted in that room of his at the area. Dow Soul whoring over the papers that had been his ruin and learning by heart as Duke Chase. Eddie had urged him the matters. They contain that he might be well instructed in his fearful role. Midnight found him at a wicked that opened into the garden of the Palazzo Monte. Oli He was muffed in a black cloak a black visor on his face for his papers had told him and he gathered some comfort from the knowledge that the conspirators were to present themselves in mask the Palazzo Mattioli be. It known was at the time untended and had therefore been chosen for the secret. Meeting gives Monday boldly thrust the gate open and went in a tall figure. Black in the faint luminosity. The night gathered from the snow confronted him. Good evening friend. The Stranger greeted him and gives. Monday was conscious of a thrill of fear. Nevertheless he answered bravely with the countersign in which he had schooled himself. It would be better evening where warmer warmer for home. The other catechised him yet. Following his instructions gives Mandi answered not until the question was repeated. Warmer for whom a corpse might find it warm Enough Corp. Shell find it so air. The winters done gives Mandi answered at which the guardian of the place decide and bathe him. Go forward to the house already. Others were advancing from the gate but gives. Monday stayed not to look at them. He pushed on as he had been bitten. He bent his steps. To the small doorway that had been indicated by KRISPIES papers. He pushed the door and it fell open. He entered closed it after him and groped his way forward through this digital and darkness till of sudden strong hands gripped him in brought him to a halt despite himself. He was afraid yet. Mastering his growing terror. He answered in a steady voice. The questions that were set him and so one through. He was lead forward a guiding hand upon his wrist round a corner and on until last they came to a halt there was a creek and suddenly he was blinking in the blaze of light. That smote him. Through the open door of a vast apartment his companion thrust him swiftly across the threshold and he heard the door closed softly again behind him. The sound chilled him suggesting to his fevered. Mind the closing of a trap. He heartened himself with reflection that he had learned his lesson well. He persuaded himself that he had not to fear and he went forward into a handsome and lofty chamber. That had been late count. Monte Yoli's library. The Room was tended by seven other plotters. Mastan muffed as was he and they sat apart and silent like so many Beckham Ortiz. He found himself. A chair sat down and waited. Glad enough that the secrecy of these proceedings precluded entered communion and presently others came as he had come and like himself each held himself aloof from his fellow plotters. At last. The door was open to admit one who differed from the rest in that. His cloak was read and read the visor on his face. He was followed by two figures and black who had the Arab being in attendance. And that is entrance the entire company now numbering fifteen rose to its feet in one accord heads. Monday known more of this affair. In which an odd irony forced him to play his part he might have wondered why this man who was obviously the head and the leader of the conduit should come mast at all for wow. The identity of the plotters was secret from one to another yet. Their leader was known at least by name to each and all as all were known by name at least to him but the first words the red mass spoke when having taken his seat at the head of a long table round which all gathered. He had waived the company to their chairs. Were in elucidation of this very circumstance. You may wonder my friends. Said he in voice was rich musical. Why since my name is known to all of you I should come mass the magno. He paused a moment and gives. Monday wandered half contemptuously. What might be the meaning of this memory? When the president's next words made clear that meaning goes Monday was Ni- to fainting from a fright and he breathed day prayer of thanks to the Virgin of Loretto that he had had a mask upon his face to conceal. Its death lay pallor. I have taken this measure of precaution. The red mask had added because among us here. There is a traitor. A spy there was a russell as of a win throng trees as the muffled company stirred at the fell announcement. Men turned about and scanned one. Another with is that flashed fiercely through their aisles. As though they're glances would burn their way through the silt that screen their neighbors constance -is it seemed to gives Monday in that moment of panic that the entire company stared at him then he knew it for trick of his imaginings in Betide what might he set himself to do as others did and to glare fiercely in his turn at this and at that one. Some three or four were pond their feet. His name thing cried his name magnificent an but the magnificent shook his head in motion to them to resume their seats. I know it not said he nor and WHO's place? He is here where act as Monday. Breathed again more freely. All that I know is this. A body was brought into remedy this evening after sunset. It was that of a man who had been found murdered. Some three leagues from here on the Bologna road is closed or disordered. His point suntrust his pockets empty from which it was surmised that he had fallen at the hands of some common banded but it seemed to me. The work had been over arduous for thief and when I came to investigate more closely. I've found that is boots had been torn to shreds and a frenzied search for something. The president paused a moment then continued. That was enough to waken my suspicions. I contrived to have the handling of one of his boots. One in which the lining had been divided at the top from the outer leather. I thrust my hand into that secret pocket that the thief had opened and at the bottom. I found a scrap of paper. No more that a corner that had been torn from one of the documents. I now know what it contained upon that shredded paper. I found but two words written two words of no account. Whatever save that. The character of the writing was my own. He paused again in an a deathly silence. The company waited for him to proceed. I knew for certain than that. The murdered man was one of our comrades in the F. Air on which we are met tonight had. I made the discovery earlier that I known where each of you was lodged. I had found means to warn you not to come here tonight as it is. I can only hope that we are not yet betrayed but this I know that the man who comes possessed of the secret of our plot sits here among us now again there was the wrestling stir and several voices spoke harsh and hot with threats of what should be the fate of this rash spy. 'cause Monday nod his lips in silence waiting and wondering the strength all using from eighteen of us were to have foregathered here tonight said the red mask impressively one of US lies dead yet. Eighteen are here. You see my friends said He. Sardonic note vibrating in his voice. That there is one too many that one he concluded and from Sardonic. His voice turned grim. We must do eat a rose as he spoke a splendid figure tall and stately. I ask you one by one to confer with me. Apart a moment he announced he. Each of you will come when summit. I shall call you not by name but by the city from which you hail he left the table and move down into the shadows at far end of the long chamber and with him went to who had attended him on his arrival gives monty watched them fascinated the two attendance. No doubt were due. The uprooting won the weed was found that he thought was the purpose for which they accompanied the gentleman in scarlet. And for that was it. They withdrew into the shadows as more fitting than the white for the deed of darkness. That would presently be done. And Kona called the voice of the president and the name echoed mournfully through the Chill Air. A massacre rows upon the instant thrusting back chair and marched fearlessly down to confer with the master plotter Gez. Monday wondered how many moments of life might yet be left himself? There was a mist before his eyes and his heart was thumping horribly at the base of his throat with the violence that seemed to shake him in his chair at each pulse ation and he marveled that the boom of it did not draw the attention of his neighbor us day came the voice from across the Chamber and another figure rose and went apart passing the returning and Kona on the way Bologna followed Asti and gives Mandi began to realize that the president was taking them alphabetically and he wondered how many more there might be air foray was called for Crespi he knew was from four Lee. He wondered to what questions would be asked him. From the knowledge those papers had imparted to him. He found that he was able to surmise them and he knew what answers he should mate still his terror did not leave him some other questions. There must be something for which those papers did not make provision Kataoka came the summons a fourth conspirator arose and then all of a sudden the whole company was on its feet mechanically and from very force of IMITATION GIVES. Monday had risen to and the heartbeats in his throat were quicken. Now with sudden hope in the distance there had been a sound of voices and this was followed on the instant by heavy tread in the corridor without a tread accompanied by the clank of armor. We are betrayed called the voice. After which awful silence. The Mass Company stood and waited a heavy blow. Smoke the door. Nfl Open across the threshold. The candle light reflected from his course let as from Mir came a mighty figure armed kappa Pi behind him. Three minute arms soared on hip and Pike in hand Chris closely three paces within the room. The captain came to a halt and survey them with is the smiles grimly from the bearded face. Sars he said resistance will be idle. I have fifty men might me? President advanced with a firm step. What may be or will with US Kothe? He fine arrogance his voice the will of His Highness the Duke of Valetyn. Oy was the man's answer to home. Your plot is known in. Its every detail you come to a rest stops. One by one said the captain with an odd significance than a slight inclination of the head. My grooms are wait. You in the courtyard for an instance. There was science as well. There might be at that pronouncement. The memory of the terrible justice the Duke had wrought in Sinigalia was still fresh in every mine and his Monday understood as all understood that here in the courtyard of the multi. Doria these gentlemen caught red-handed. Were to meet the fate that had overtaken vitality and his confederates. Infamy cried one. Who stood beside gives Mandi? Empha- me are we to have no trial in courtyard replied the captain grimly. Not Farai exclaimed. Another I'm as noble as a Duke himself be strangled on a corner like a Capon by die. I must climb my right of birth. The axe right. Right a birth the captain mused and smiled indeed your very birthright so it seems com servers but others stormed with interruptions and one there was called upon his fellows to draw what steel they carried and die with the weapons and their hands gives. Monday apart with folded arms watched them and grinned behind his visor. It was with him. An Hour of Excel tation in the revolt from his recent terrors. He wondered to what length of following these rash fools would go. He thought he might witness a pretty fight but the man in red disappointed him of such expectations. He came forward to the table head and his voice was raised dominate and quell. The others Sir has said he. The game is lost. Let us pay the forfeit and be done again for a moment. A silence fell then one with a sudden strident laugh stepped forward. I'll lead the way my brothers he said and bowing to the captain. I am at your order sir. He announced the captain made a sign to his men to depose. Their pikes and coming forward sees that volunteer swiftly and without words spoken. They hurried him from the chamber. Gives MONTY SMILE? This entertainment amused his cruel nature better than had done that other a little. While ago swiftly the soldiers went about their work and a brief ten minutes there remained but for conspirators. One of them was the man in scarlet who as their captain reserved to himself. The honor of going last two others were the men who had attendant upon him and the fourth was as Mandi. The men at arms re entered and the man and read made a sign to Gaz Monday. That was playing of meeting. Monday shrugged smiled to himself and stepped forward jauntily but when the soldiers seized him. He shook them off a word with you. Sir said he to the captain the captain I him kingly Said he you will be whom I was told to look far. Tell me Your name that I may know you I am Benvenuto gives Monte. The captain nodded thoughtfully. I permit myself no error. You are Benvenuto Gez Mondday and he paused inquiring me and answered gives Monday within patients. I am here on behalf of Duke Shea. Sorry Barshop a quiet wicked laugh. Broke from the captain's bearded Litz and one of his heavy gauntlets had hands fell upon his mondays shoulder. The other tower the visor roughly from his face the Jaar Excellency. No the villain. I do not answered the man in red and added God be thanked. He clapped his hands and now was that gives Monday. Saw into what manner of trap he had fallen. What manner a bruise? The master plotter had adopted to weed out as he had promised the one who had usurped the place of him that had been slain on the belong near road. The clapping of hands was your summons answer to which there came trooping back into the chamber the entire company a muffled plotters no farther than the CORREDOR had. They been taken and on arrive over there to each had been explained that test. That was a foot be times next. Morning Don McGill says. Id borjas. Spanish captain waited upon his master with a dagger and a bloodstain. Scrap of paper. He had to report the finding of the body of Benvenuto Gas Monday. Under the trees in the square that front to the Palazzo Mattioli the dagger that had slain. The man had been employed to attached to him. The Label Don McGill presented to the Duke on which was written the property of Shay's Eddie. Barshop Don McGill wondered if his magnificence desire the culprits to be brought to account Shea said he shook his head and smile. It is far now as I intended said he and fell to musing. It would have greed Me had they not discovered him for would put me to the need of sterner measures as it is i. Think they're discovery will have heightened their dread of me and of the ubiquity of my spies and in their terror they will have scattered their plot abandoned it is best so give them open trial and exposed their plot would be to invite imitators to follow their lead for man excels himself in playing the eight. You may go. Mcgill I think Messier Benvenuto Gaz. Monday has served my purpose as excellently as I meant he should and incidentally he has had his way. You've been listening to gives Mondays wage by Raphael Sabatini. Who said he was suffering from the loss of an illusion? If you've enjoyed this episode not listen to another word. There are over a hundred to juice. I've enjoyed being with you and now I must go. I hope to be with you again soon. Please be well and thank you for listening to.
Season 4-Episode 24 The Conquering Twin-Tomas Vincente
"So thermes podcast welcome to the world of the Western Esoteric tradition. Hello friends and listeners welcome to yet an you episode of the thought her podcast. And today it's indeed hour season finale of season for that. Is Episode Twenty four of this season for? Thank you so much trouble you all for being with us here today. Today is also a very special day on the calendar. Because it's midsummer, it's summer solstice. It's the twenty first of June twenty twenty the day that we released this episode. and Deer Bezos has also kind of mysterious name. It's called the conquering twin. Well for those of you who know a bit of Latin and Greek Day might get it when they hear name of our guest today with Dr Tomas Vincent. Yes the conquering twin. Okay, maybe you'll get the explanation. Indian view we have got it already now. Great well as I said. It's last episode of this season, and that's quite a special moment also for me, because we have done not only the twenty four episodes, but also one extra question and answer. Episode in the Middle So twenty five times in this season. We have been here together and it has been really great to have you as my audience here. We've had great people who wear our interview guests. We had several ex. Liberals shows in between. Three of them actually and I'm really happy that we did all of that now. Is Of course, not the end of the Alzheimer's Podcast, my goodness, no, we'll start season five in two weeks from today more of that at the end of the show as always. And today you know what today because it's the last episode of season, I'm not going to talk about all of this. How you sent me feedback and how you can become a supporter, which doesn't mean you shouldn't. But I'm just telling you if you need some more information or if you want to get all the previous episodes here. And find him and find all the show notes just go on the website which is called. Blue ww, her dot com that is the. Age, Ot h. e., R. M.. E. S. DOT com. And is also really interesting when I get your feedback. I liked that as you know and I've also invited to you several times to come here to. Propose maybe some musicians or some more of more of you do that, and so today is again one of those episodes where I'm happy to be able to play music that one of our listeners one of our regulars here has produced and written and performed. So this is always i. find a very special moment for this podcast when we can do that. And today's music will be again three pieces as always, but the music that has been given to me is I would call it. Contemplative may be a little bit. Even Meditative Music and pieces are rather long, and it would be impossible to blade three full tracks of that recording that I got for you today on the podcast. So together with Timothy Hawks with composer of music. We have decided that I will play. From some of the tracks of his new CDs I. D D which was released last year, and I will play you three drinks, but only six minutes of each track which. Is, I think gives the great idea of music, and will make you hungry to get more of that music, and you can, of course find all the details on the show notes for this show, but I will also give you a little him twitter. Find it now so again. This is Timothy Hawks who has given us this music. And he performs under the name of Zet Dj's Dj and if you go on bent camp, dot, com band camp, comment, enter that the J. Three letters then you will be directed to his page. You will find. This recording that I'm gonNA play freeze day in full you will also find on spotify by the way and there. You just enter also. Album that is called Helio pause. Heavy oppose. Has. Number of tracks still spending tate Dave contemplative tracks. And now we are going to play first for you or today D Istrict bears as a name date. August twenty. Five twenty twelve. To be honest, I am not sure what happened on August. Twenty Five, twenty twelve, but to maybe if you ask me hawks on his and campsite, he might be able to tell you. And to let's dive in immediately that you seek. Relax lean back and. Let's enjoy together. August Twenty Fi- twenty twelve. From the album hellier pose by said they G. Enjoy! and. Only. August twenty, five, twenty, twelve from the album helio pulse by Said Day, G, who is one of our listeners sent to has been so kind to propose those strikes to us to give a listen. Thank you for that. All right we are now going to meet Dr Thomas Vincent. And Thomas he is. For the first time appearing on a podcast, he has so far always not wanted, stood at for several reasons, which he also partly explain in the interview I'm not giving that away now, and but no just as much Thomas Incentive is a pen name and Hill also explained this why he chose that name, and why he chose the pen name altogether. I am trying out something with you today. I will read you an exempt from book. By Thomas Incentive faceless God that we have chosen to. Present a little bit the content of that book as short except for three or four minutes, just just before restarting interview, and if you like that idea, if you think it's a good idea to give you. Some hints on what somebody that I'm going to injury has to say before we actually start interview. Then I'm going to do. In the future I thought it would be nice to start season five with that new idea, and so I give it a try today in the last episode of season four and I'm expecting your feedbacks. Go to website or send me an email, or whatever sent me a feedback. If you like the that I always should read you a short excerpt from a book by the author, who I will present you in that episode or from Tex- prime if he's not an order, okay. Right so let me now therefore retune except from the chapter called and newbies s guardian of the gateway. Items Incentive from his book faceless garage. A Nubia was to pre eminent goal of this in pre dynastic Egypt long before. Rose to prominence in the cult center of obidos. The perception of candidates guardians of the spirit world is well attested cross culturally. In prehistoric consciousness, the dog back inhabitants living space between domestic and wild. It's a creature both familiar and threatening, since it reminds of the precariousness of civilized life, and the dangers of slipping back into barbarism. Discouraging behavior of certain candidates reinforce these exiled his. Jackal who lurked in twilight shadows of the Western cripple is was feared as the DC cray trend devour of the dead. But he was also reverted as a psychopath. Much as carrying birds are regarded as Khandu conduits to the spirit world in the sky, burials of Ancient Persia Tibet and certain native American tribes. By consuming and digesting the corpse. Jackal transformed the deceased person breaking down the body and releasing the soul. The rights of modification where device by a priest of newbies to harness out chemical mystery of the Jackal God. The power to generate life from dead and decaying matter. The desecrate draft dead does became Lord of the Negroponte's. Has Patron of the funerary cult? NEWBIES was cold. He who is in the place of embalming. His Fetish was a headless mummified pelt of bovine or Wildcat Ethics to an upright pole. This symbol encapsulated profound mystery of the death and Resurrection of desirous the headless one. which was guarded by the newbies cult? And now we are going to meet Tomas Incentives. Will we see all three of those lines that I just read in person? We are going to meet him. In Canada. and. There we are going to talk to him about this book much more about also his path, his ideas and lots of things that he had to say. Right! We'll come back after thirty minutes in the middle of the interview for some more music by sending G., but for now let's go and speak to Dr, Tomasz Vincent Day. Here comes the interview. For this last episode of Season Four, here today on this. because. I have a very special guest here in front of microphone and. We are speaking today to Demosthenes Center. Good evening. Good afternoon to you! Tell us a very nice to have you with us here. Could Evening Rudolph. It's it's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for inviting me thank you. In fact I may say to the first time that you appear on podcast after release of your grade book to faceless God with sizing. Very, not only a very fine to touch to hold. As always this theon publishing books are, but also by its contents very very special book and we are going to talk about that a lot today. But we are of course as always on this podcast, also going to talk about the person to Moscow incentives and Way of saying that. I may say and and some people might know, but this is a pen name. It's not your real name and. Ask sometimes in the world are good reasons links to that much else being. Being special but Tasso. Pay named. Sometimes allows to be. To go further with certain things, you would normally be able to do in your regular life right, and so maybe we should start a bit about you. US Tomasz Incentives and. How? How step name how you how you put it together because I think the story behind the name is also interesting and also why and What's the personality that's behind that name. And how did you become? That's Thomas Vincent Tomasz into that. You are today and what? Brought you dare. Brace well. Just make a quick note about the meaning of the student Yes. I don't think I've ever spoken about this before. Okay, but so tell us. If we trace it back to its ancient route means twin, yes, and been sentenced in Latin. This something like conquering. It is the name means. The conquering twin. And it's a it's a nod to this figure of the faceless God. WHO. Argue in the book is sort of like the dirk. Reflex or twin of Christ. And at the same time, the name is sort of referencing my own twin. My own dark. Reflex of you're right my. My alter you go. Doing both of those things. Is it also because the first the first? Reaction that comes to me when I hear. You say pseudonym and not pay name. What do you prefer for you? Is it more than pen name? Probably because the nation might, thing is more than just depend, it's. More than a rhetorical conceit. There's some substance to to it, yeah? I've been able to give a voice to. Aspects of my own personal practice a that I do not speak to in my mundane. And so in my mundane life. That doesn't make it sound very very pleasant does in my ordinary life I? Am I'm an academic I'm a scholar and a teacher. Right so I published under my own name. Works of academic. Research. So the pseudonym has also been used full simply to. Allow for kind of demarcation there between my scholarly work teaching. And this more personal visionary work. Yeah, which certainly Is grounded in academic research, so yeah, sure utilizing launches far beyond that at the same, the same person, still of course, yeah! I find that invitation winning twin conquering between bitter interesting also in that aspect when you have your Monday. Let's say mundane. Why not I mean. It's what we mostly using that respect. In life and your and your? Maybe not hidden life, but rather life your private life and If the. If the private life is now conquering, maybe that's also assigned, isn't it? Yes. And, then you know the book came at the end of a very long. Journey. began. Studying esotericism from really from a strictly academic point of view I. Near the end of my graduate studies. So began by by very intensive study of ancient sources of Esotericism, right and then you know hermetic tax. Related currents of Alchemy and astrology, and then moved beyond that to you know so the main trajectories of Western esotericism. In only gradually did my own sort of initiative. Practice and aspirations develop. We will go into more detail with that in a minute. May I ask a typically European question you? In other parts of will not always have to question. What age are you? What Age am I now I am I am? Quickly approaching the half century Mark Okay okay, good, good, good answer. Okay, no, because I just I. Don't find is important, but is important in a way of how long your pass has been. Go ahead. It's been it's been long Yup and as we are now. Maybe talk a little bit about how we don't start it for you. We come to the book itself. How you. How you got into? Your secret life, so to speak how his missile, somehow all just mentioned became an effect in your life, right. Well I have always. At least since my the beginning of my. University Studies. Have always been. On a quest for truth. And initially. I began through the study of philosophy. Focusing on ancient philosophy. Specifically. Near the end of my graduate studies at. When I realized I hadn't quite got the truth yet. I began to kind of. Long for a more. immersive. Approach. To spiritual knowledge, getting beyond kind of textbook approach is getting me on theoretical approaches. To? Kind of NAS tick. Approach. At that point, I didn't have any idea what NAS to schism was I just had this sort of yearning for more, and that's what led me to I had heard the name heritage transmit justice. And I, really had no idea what that was about so started researching A. Late Antique sources of Magic and Alchemy initiative literature so the NEO platonic. The style or even. Lesser known current sort of related to neoplatonism, like hermetic literature and. And Austin, literature? and. That that gave me the kind of basic framework beginning with ancient sources and I feel that picture out with. The study of Renaissance figures like grip on the main lines of western Esoteric thought. Noah and Then, the introduction of cabalistic influences, and how they fused with the ancient Mediterranean systems. So I had, but by the end of that journey, a pretty good working knowledge of. Those currents as they came from the ancient world. And gradually alongside of that began. Practice In a very. It's been a very long winding path. I've explored many different approaches, and many of us have yeah many initiatives environments. And, then really the consolidation of the journey. Happened through the inception and the writing of the faceless God. And especially through my interactions with David Beth. Who Edited? And wrote the introduction to that book. I. and. I have to ask you. Couple of questions about budget just said. Difficult questions to. You went on quests for truth right. And and what? How would you define truth while I? Find it much differently now than I would. Have defined it as a eighteen year old. Who was first exposed to? Philosophy so. In my in my young and naive days, I thought of truth as a content as as a destination you know. Something that could be comprehended. In more or less rational terms. Nowadays I I tend to think of truth as as a process or an unfolding. ever-deepening journey into mystery. So. He's absolute thing, but it is something that develops. And it's certainly something that is vastly. Beyond the reach of rational. Comprehension even though rational methodologies are at least in my practice, indispensable moments in the journey. Through. Personal or is it? MAYBE NOBODY'S GENERAL Is Truth. Is Truth through General Personal Yeah? There are universal aspects. To it. But. The richness of it and. Is In is in the immediate encounter. With numerous. For us. which is local particular. And that for me in this in this is one of the areas where. The COSMIC NAS tick system of David Breath has been important. For me. For me the sacred. Is the immediate. Now it is. It moment, so it's not something transcendent. Did something that is here and now? That'd very much also David, of course says and said here on this as well. Yes, plus your book is also when I when I say that it's easy to misconstrue that as well. WHEN WE TALK! About the secretiveness of this world. The Cosmos. And and the particulars. It's not for me a matter of venerating. Nature in its. Immediacy. So much as tabbing into the underlying NUMIS forces. That give rise to nature in. It's phenomenal for. Numerous types of force and we'll throw into that era. Yeah. But. It's quite nicely to my second question that arose when you said something about narcissism, because also narcissism is. A word test in use special last year, so to speak in many different. Yes, meanings and. There is a part of. that. That's exactly the country of what you're saying A. Classical. The classical medieval narcissism which is. Negating material world, because only transcendent world is important, and here you doing exactly the opposite, so what? What is narcissism in your definition? How would you define Nassir for yourself? Yeah, so for me I mean there are complex. Debates about the term narcissism. How you? May Or may not be. True I'm. Fine for auto is if I'll been. Exactly. Yeah, so no, if at the idea of no SIS. Which is obviously the Common Lincoln and all the different varieties of hostesses. We're talking about some kind of. Supra rational. Apprehension? Of the numerous right? which it goes beyond theory, it goes beyond. Ordinary rational concept. The question is how do we trigger that Osas? and. And, what is the relation of the NAS tick perspective on reality to the ordinary phenomenal picture of reality? some NAS ticks. Following a kind of platonic understanding. Of of The soul. And the transcendental origins of the soul. They! RADICALIZED THAT! Platonic vision and begin to see this world this cosmos as a fall and world. Broken world kind of distorted image of the world of the forms right? That's like the tires. Does strong Nasi. Medieval and yeah, there's some kind of. would be difficult to reconstruct the the way that ancient. KNOSSOS goes forward, but yeah, in Zakho there in man again the thought. That so that we might call the anti cosmic narcissism. and. The problem. With that form of narcissism as I see, it is that. It mistakes visionary experience. For the experience of another world. You know all forms of esotericism are grow out of visionary experiences, which are then conceptualist in derise how we try to make sense of. The way the NAS ticks, the anti cosmic nostitz tried to make sense of it was. They imagined that no says happened when you disengaged from your bodily life. And your soul began its return to its sue PURNELL source. In along with that notion of noces as for other worldly transcendence. There's a whole bunch of. That is very problematic. Both with respect to the way that nature is conceived. As broken. As Profane? The way that. Our instincts. Are Understood in particular are sexual instincts. Demonized within that transcendental. A purely materialistic seen as. Sticking. Right and we might think I should also mention. There is a kind of misogyny that. Is, woven, into this right. That's a very complex matter, but. For many ancient. Cultures. least in some representatives of those cultures. Woman is associated with the biological. NASA a network of stereotypes linking women's who? The biological sphere of life. So along with the devaluation of nature. And sexuality, there is a devaluation of woman risk, too. So I find the. MAPS, which really have dominated western US of terrorism. To be problematic and. And and and the criticism is not trivial. Those who would respond and say well, wait a minute. There are different maps. We can use to make sense of our spiritual experiences. And as long as that works for us. As long as it's useful for you to criticize it. And! I would say to that is. We can't pretend that esotericism is a world, unto it so. It's part of the wider culture. and. We have responsibilities. In the maps that we choose think through the assumptions underlying them definitely here we are in A. In a wide fields were one could discuss links matter, and maybe we should do that partly, because because of course also that. Waves into the whole problematic field of of politics in terraces makes Edrich CETERA and that's a large field which I think could feel three episodes. I'm -solutely. Okay thank you. Thank you for saying that and I think it's very important you said. You were talking about certain in. Environments as you call them that you went through as a youngster when you started you. Visibly you were not one of those who some. Many of of those people I interviewed here had first experience or I want to ever at age five. You know being in the kitchen I'm not I'm not making a joke of that. Really happens many of them right right and. It doesn't seem to me that you had. Kind of experience, rather very early age, or did you at some point? No I didn't. I had a kind of youthful. Fascination with the paranormal. Way in which when I began to study as terraces, I kind of picked up again on that. On that totally on analyzed sort of. Fascination. With the paranormal? No beyond that. No I can't remember any. Unusual extraordinary experiences right as And does. Environments. You were mentioning where they all in the. Spirit or whale day also whatever Ramona's magic where the whole field that you try to grasp borough. What happened there well? Initially as many, do I I? studied the golden dawn materials. Say Many of us do. Because that aligned with my study of renaissance. Terrorism. On really is an outgrowth of. That tradition. So that made sense, and I made a pretty thorough study, but again more academic than anything of of. The grades of the goal dawn and underlying structures. And I did work that system a little bit. Any Nice I still have a lot of respect for. For, the founders of The thought the thought that went into the spiritual vision that went into that system. Gradually though I turn to. I turned two more left hand path. Orientations and now I have. This could be its own podcast as well. Absolutely. So I use that expression in the book. I use it in a very particular way. And I do I do think of my own current orientation as? In a certain way left hand path. But. Does not have very much in common with the way that. Terminology tends to be used curry. Yes, maybe maybe you should. Also, as we just did with NAS assessments truth. Maybe he just should give us also a definition, your definition of less ambassador way you use it in the book and in Your Life Probably. So. Maybe, I don't know if this is provocative, but for me all. All initiation is left. Hand Path, okay. No matter how one might try to conceptualize the experience, you could use right hand paths systems traditional systems to frame it. You never hear the expression, right and path or hardly ever. Well this is, there's something to that, too. So. For me. All initiation. Just kind of. kind of theatrics or kind of presents. Or a mere accumulation of knowledge right if it is truly a transformation. Of the Mundane personality? That is traumatic. I initiation I mean. This becomes clear to those of us on these past as we get older. And actually go through things. That there's trauma involved. This is a painful process. Might begin with his romantic vision of. Enlightenment. Or joining the illuminate. But in reality, this is an arduous and painful process. In which we have to come to terms with. Aspects of the self. That are. Unruly. And difficult. Let's just begin by describing them and. Aspects of the self that might be regarded as irrational. That might be regarded as beyond. Ordinary Ethical Boundaries right. And, so the left hand path is partly about a simulating or getting in touch with those neglected aspects. Of of the person. Which transcendental systems! sublimate or try to escape from. Demonize right right so. So? So in that sense. If we think about initiation, not as a sending into some transcendental world values, but as descending. into in knows tempting to use sort of psychoanalytic images here, and I, do have a certain fondness for young. Whether is kind of descend into the unconscious elements right of the person and would not want to overly psychologist the experience because I do not think it's simply a psychological experience. Language can be useful, so the left the way involves descend into. That forbidden terrain. And in that process There is an anti nomi aspect a counter cultural aspect. And, inasmuch, as we have to break free from Serb, forms of conditioning. The forces that have shaped the mundane person have to be challenged all kinds of weight and. So I struggle to see how initiation if it's. Real Is Not left hand path in that sense at least. The fact that in many many initiate the. Practices the. Fake dead. Let's put it that way to bluntly through the process of dying and being. Resuscitated in some spiritual way, it is part of of that. Situation. EASTEP for unification that it is. Less than passing into way you, you just define yeah I mean if we take that that imagery seriously, and even as it appears in traditions of Masonry. Man. If if that's more than theatrics. If. He really is speaking to some kind of radical reconfiguration of the person which is should be yeah, then there is. Necessarily, an anti nomi aspect to that That the anti nomi aspect is not the endpoint. It is it. Is The journey right as cold initiation? Shit something not not end point. Right right so this is the thing I would say. In distinction to the way, the left hand path is normally presented and. We have. For example, there's a dominant way of thinking about it. Especially North American. currence. Exclusively, but I see it there particularly to think of the left hand path still in a kind of transcendental way. Where what we're doing is breaking free of. The forces that bind us in our natural existence, and also in our kind of socio sociology existence as condition beings. And what we're trying to do is of immortalize. The psyche or that part of us that is. That is not simply tied to the natural. So it's interesting how those left hand path currents continued to build on that transcendental model. which has been there all along from the quickey onwards? In an interesting way they actually radicalized that transcendental model. Push towards what looks to me like a kind of dual ISM. Where the end point of that is. And I don't quite know what this even means, but that we are going to become gods unto ourselves. And we are going to become creators of our own universe. And that seems to me to be. That suggests to me that this has become kind of escapist fantasy. Because there is no world. From in my view, other than this universe we inhabit and. So for me, the Left Hand Path is not about escapist transcendence. It's not about. kind of taking some kind of. transcendental element within us in trying to immortalize that. It is instead quite the opposite. is about. Coming into communion. With the the underlying forces. Right humanist. Energies of this cosmos. And and rejecting kind of. Profane. Perspective? Of of the cosmos just. Right. Very interesting. I think that makes it very rural so the distinction of your definition of your landscape as The left and pass. Thank you for that because that's important for all that follows. A friends and listeners. Let's take the announced. Break Now and digest many things that Dr Thomas to incent. They had to say to us. and. Let's listen to some more music and is contemplative music that we are going to hear again by Said Day g and his album Helios which he has given me to present to you today. I think the right ambiance that we need to think about more about what we have just heard and also meditate about it. Right this second track of Elliott Post that we hear now is called Eighth Year Cry Atheist. Something? That is not unknown to us and. Yes, we'll leave. You immediately wasted wonderful ambience music that we are going to hear now. A. -Kay. Year cry. From the CD Helio polls by Said Day g who has offered this his music for this show, and goes by the real name of Timothy Hawks from Richmond Virginia. Let's now go back to me Dr. Thomas Incentive and talk more and especially more about his book, too faceless God which has been published by theon publishing a couple of years ago. Of course, one of those really beautiful books like theon Publishing Dustin. Often regularly, and you should really have a look on their website as well if have time. Okay. After the interview immediately after interview, we'll have a search track from Helio, pulse and desert track is called Bert painted twist Bluestone, and I don't know if you can hear that crow, which is going crazy out there in front of my window, Yla record. Well, maybe he's heard their painted with bluestone announcement, and that's why he wants to make himself known to you guys. Right. Okay, but now let's return to talk to Thomas Vincent. Now. We go a little bit further. Into in how you got to faceless call because you previously said Okay and then I wrote the Book and David Base but. This process was a bit. But do you have to explain to us how the process happened? Did you already? Work into what may be you did not yet. Call Coz Mik noses at the point because he didn't. Know the current, or maybe you did, and you started writing the book antennae amid David or How did that all come together? How how did the idea of the book emerge? What came first? And how did you discover Code Pink noses in the first place. That's an interesting set of questions so. Many of the elements that were woven into the book. We're already kind of part of my. My own research. For I'd ever met David. Even practice or only research. More still more theoretical I link in in in the beginning. So what are some of these threads I'm thinking about? So we've talked about the role of the academic right, the runs of kind of grounding for me at least a grounding my practice in some. Some kind of research because we, there's always the danger in in in a cultism. Or esotericism that we can become kind of ungrounded and. We can eat. It's easy to fall into delusion. And that's one of the dangers to with a culture that idea of culture, though there are many many positives such as your wonderful show. You know that we have this kind of environment. Yeah, a collective environment. What are the dangers? Though is that it becomes can become a kind of echo chamber. Yeah, so for me. Scholarship is given that grounding, but at the same time noces is about as we've said is certainly about moving beyond the rational. Things that became. Influential. Works have Kenneth Grant. Important and that's that's a thread that's woven into the book. Sure and also important. Another important threat in the book was the weird fiction of lovecraft. Which which grant also writes about? Because for me. The the ESOTERICISM is not radically distinct from other forms of visionary experience. A parallel universe just said right in this world. That's right, so why not look for inspiration in art? Or weird fiction and so. The the powerful. Of lovecraft fiction, and this is something that grant exploits. Technique. Is the blurring of the boundaries between fiction and nonfiction? which is essential part of the NAS Dick? Experience so all of those threads were in motion, the love, crafty and stuff by interest in grant, and also my academic studies of Egyptology. and. My interest in European, which Lor Right. Now. The idea I in the beginning. Very. See there are many elements play? And I said I elements sometimes are seen as being buried. Yeah was compatible about they are in the end. Yeah, understandably, yeah. So. I had just a vague sense of what this project was going to be. I David I had some communications. We were acquainted. And we talked about. He approached me about writing a book for Theon. Just we kind of explored various possibilities. And then I'd just begin to kind of. To frame sort of outline. Drawings together some of those threads. and. At the same time as I began writing, I was kind of exploring. David system a little more seriously. Reds I read his some of his work. In began thinking about the idea of cosmic noces. And in the course of writing the book, it became clear to me that this project was closely aligned with David's vision of things, but I didn't know that in the beginning, and in fact in the process of editing the. There were various moments when and Through his feedback I. Began to see that I was still incorporating transcendental models that I had inquired through my kind of education were exam and he kind of helped me. Work through that. So. There was a kind of initiative process that happened between David myself in the in the writing and editing of that book okay. So I, was really kind of a dynamic experience, an initiative experience. In of itself. The book 'cause release if I'm not wrong about four years ago. Ten to sixteen says. Must be that. Can you roughly say how long you worked on it? I mean not don't tell me. Sir Year says of course but. I mean really physically. From the decision to write. Kind of book to to the final project of one product. How long did that take? Maybe a year. Okay. Let's. We always zoo, said involved in fact, it was. And this is where the weird things about the book because I've written a lot as an academic sure, some very familiar with. The rhythm of that kind of writing. This was an entirely different experience and I talk about a little bit in the preface to the book when I talk about the idea of inspired texts. Exactly what that what we mean by an inspired text? The way that that book came together. It was very strange. The pieces of the puzzle fell into place. In a way that I'd never experienced before with any other form of writing or research. And I, it was as I wrote. The thing was I was kind of in trance Te. Totally absorbed in this process. And so the bulk of the thing was written very quickly in fact right very quickly. Some of the final chapters happened a few months on, but. It came together. came together quite quickly, and did you. See During that phase of Writing. Let's that way and. Did you feel in that period? Also strong personal development that happened in peril. Not In the writing. Of the book, because in the writing of the book, I was simply sort of transported. Right into that into that. Space. In the aftermath of the writing of the book. I found that I had to completely. Reassess my life. Just put it right lately. Do you wanted to see how? Well. Let's just say that my life now is is vastly different. Than It was before the reading of the book. So I've gone through some some significant changes. And you know not to be. Obviously we all go through changes. In Life, but there is to my mind some connection there kind of catalyctic connection. You know when you. Experience true initiate initiate attic. Revelation that that changes. reassembles the pieces of course I was going to say the writing process seems to be like initiation for you. The writing process was a kind of. But at the end of it. There was work to be done. You see what I mean like in Seattle and everything was sure. Pass begin says right puts right right right. I would like chopin a little bracket for a moment. About this academic work. because. The conflict that academic work and Cult worker you giving name me the name you want to call. CLEFT and whatever you want to call it. Would would bearing itself. It seems to me that at the same time I see. Maybe it's also personal development. I see and feel also with podcast more and more people who are from the academic world at approach me and wanted to talk about it, and at the others on the other side you see even in the academic world that works distinctively with the Esoteric. History or whatever would like to call it and you see that? There is a kind of like I was naming fear to get in touch with each other, so it is very difficult for an academic. Whatever field! He is working to say that he is also. Working more than being interested working in some projects involving the occult is Teri. Experienced personally as well and. Why do you think as that and is it? Just negative. Is it a little bit positive as well? How do you see that situation? Right well. It started less certainly something that I have struggled with a little bit and trying to figure out how those two parts fit together. I think that. If you work as a scholar in Esotericism, even harder right if you're if you're. Discipline had nothing to do with it. I think is you're right right? Because after all as scholars, we strive for objectivity of a certain kind now that's kind of ideal. There's no such thing as pure objectivity, but in order to be good scholars. Set aside as far as we can our. Personal Belief! and subjective experience. You can't completely do it, but. That's the way that academic work. Should unfold methodologically and. So it's important to keep. To my mind is certain distinction there. And you both in terms of publishing and teaching. The way that these things have to be presented in an academic context is different than the way that Aspen. Center can speak about the. And and Again, it's not simply a negative relation because. that. Academic. Methodology. If, it is kind of protected. And allowed to do its own thing. That then serves as a foundation. For an in my case for US attack practice. If if those two sides were confused. And I could no longer distinguish between. Academic objectivity and my subjective nonstick experience. Then that would all fall apart Chris. And both sides would then lose something both would lose their integrity. That's right. But it is. My identity is not an absolute secret. I think. There! Are those that. No, it's just that I don't. showed it from the rooftops. Sure and I prefer to keep that Y- disciplinary experiential boundary. Absolutely no understandably. Would you wish for a world where that? Where does two twins could be united or would you would? Do you think it's for you personally or in general? Quite a good situation haven't. As you just said to have those two worlds that feed each other. Well It certainly would be. Sometimes I think what wouldn't it be nice if? ESOTERICISM was not stigmatized in the way. It is right. Obviously, we're dealing with contested forms of knowledge. So yeah obviously. That would be nice in a way, but then at the same time as I said initiation. Has This inherently counter cultural? Aspect to it. So how can we ever expect that? What we're doing is going to be. Come part of. Kind of normative culture, and if it did, it would have to would have to water down. The nature of This, association absolutely absolutely. and. Maybe related to this. To my mind, the sacred. The INITI- attic. Should be. Kept apart. From the Monday in any case, and this is the confusion of those realms is something that is quite common nowadays. This another thing that I see you know I'm not really plugged into the occult World Very Much I. Don't Really Watch, modern occult literature okay. I have wavy one foot in a culture. But mostly I'm. I read other. Academic work or More traditional. Writings on esotericism. But one thing I see in that world, and maybe this is why keep some disarm distance from it is that there's a kind of tendency sometimes. This is generalizing, but to kind of confuse. The sacred space and the every day. So when people adopt magical personae. And that persona BEC- that sacred persona becomes their ordinary identity. On the one hand you could say well that person is fully living there. INITI- attic. Authentic? Really right I would say I would see it in the opposite way that right all best. Good intentions taken into account. There has to be a distance. Absolute. Terek in this Gerald's. Right nine. But? Much more urgently than I would have asked the question answered that question. Already I would've said okay. If we lose that separation, maybe we lose part of of power. That's in it and and. I think you mean exactly that, don't you? Yeah and. As difficult as to negotiate these different aspects of our of our lives, and it's not I mean anyone can relate to this. We all have different aspects of our personalities. Maybe the initiative for example, just an extreme example. But. And this is another way in which I would take issue with sort of transcendental models of the self. Or the soul. There is not one person. For me. We are bundles of elements that change in Matamoros. We FL- influx throughout our lives constantly evolving. So, there's no way. To really ever. Get get away from this issue of how we reconcile the different parts of our cells. And and I'm not any longer aiming for some kind of radical wholeness of the. I. Do think there's something in us that is. Immortal. That is inherently connected to the newness. The underlying principles. That that element is both US and radically not uh, US right and. So. We're always going to be grappling with. Elements of our Monday lives connect to that. Core which I give the name to said right. That's a voice. Yeah Yeah. Do you know that theory by Cgu on which is funny enough, not known not so commonly known. Where he says that. Referring to kinds of ceremonial magic where we have, we have rituals where with several officers and roles mostly seven right, and that this is a kind of split of the self of the initiate or after candidate. To be initiated into seven parts, and he reflects his own sell his own self in this in these seven parts. Have you desk and to you? Read some young, a particular member relation to narcissism and Alchemy, but no I don't recall that. Do you remember what which text that I would have to look it up I I took the time, but I don't know by heart. That's interesting, yeah! I. Think is an interesting approach of it. But now it's finally go to your more deeply into the bookstore faceless guard, even though of course we touched many for sets off that bread, or already a little bit when we take it in hand I sing that of course, not only by its beauty, but also by symbolism. What we see on the front is the Ram Ram, which I think through it's. It's. A. Symbol of after gall imbibe should it does it gets cold? That's right, right. and. That's the kind. Of. In the Egyptian initiation mythology. Well. Let you talk. Introduce us a little bit into that book and. Now, not by the history how you how it started to become a book but more. What's in it? What's important for you that yeah? So initially I noted some. Unlikely resonances between. Certain Egyptian Shen. Elements relating to. Image right who is described as the headless God. In in some in some sources. The Black God a reference to his. Cyrus has a kind of embodiment of phonic forces. In, he's also represented often with black skin. That's right. Yeah and. And and the there's this figure in in love crafts fiction. Your lathwell tap who? Is described as the face lescot faceless guard and he's linked. Explicitly by lovecraft to the figure of. The the black man of the Sabbath in Witchcraft Lore, the initiator of of the witches. Begin to just try to think about how these distant. Elements might all be speaking to one kind of. Had ARCHETYPAL, force. Initiating Force. That leads us not above in the transcendental way but molo. To to get in touch with. The repressed. Demonized aspects of the self. And The faceless God. I began to see. All of these manifestations. Is a kind of. Dirk image or reflex of. The Christ principal. How to explain this without getting into a long kind of theological. Discussion but just to put it FRY. When we think about. Davis sometimes uses the word Lago centric. which is useful so. In a certain way we live in a Lago centric world, and what I mean by that law goes is the idea or the word or the concept which in frames life right, and so we, we take a rational approach to existence we try to control our environment through science and technology to create an ordered world and centric world. And that vision of modern. A rational society is kind of inheritance of the Christian worldview. As Friedrich, Nietzsche very clearly shows. And also the reason why does? Forces demonized and suppressed initially yeah. Right that's right, and so we think of Christ as the Law Gos- The word of God or the mind of God. The idea is that he is an incarnation of the heavenly father, a reflection of the mind of got. That becomes encarnacion in human flesh. I begin to think about the faceless God as a kind of inversion of that principle. So instead of. Instead of The fusion of heavenly father. And the natural person. The Lago centric conception. We're talking here about what I call the of the mother. Or the mother is a way of speaking about this underlying numis realm of demonic forces from which the phenomenal world on on my view. Is Generated. So we kind of take that the language of the heavenly father, and we replaced that with a thon a mother and we begin to think about what any incarnation will theology would look like. Within this CATHODIC context. Where the faceless God is is not is not. A kind of. Fusion of Divine, wisdom transcendental wisdom and human nature, but is a fusion of. Human Nature. And the beast. Mall of those irrational pre rational forces that link us to. The Earth. To in the mother to the biological sphere to the animal world to the vegetable world. Right. So the faces God to my mind is kind of necessary. Correlative. To the Christ principle. If initiation is not simply about transcendent transcendence in getting beyond the world, but really is beckoning us to get in touch with. These repressed aspects of the self, and so in all these contexts in the book explores the these threads in great detail. Cross culturally. We seem to come up against this idea of. An initiator God, the God crossroads the God who who links the opera and the lower worlds? The God. Who can show you? The dark roots from which human life and consciousness. Are Generated. And of course from a normative Christian standpoint we might say that this faceless God is the antichrist. The logos is the inversion of of the crest principle, not in a need she in. Sends the Senate yeah that would be looking at him from a transcendental EST standpoint. And the book certainly. Works through that sort of. diabolize picture ready uses some of the imagery of the witches Sabbath. Inasmuch as that encounter with. The faceless God that encounter with the CA phonic realms is always marked initially by a kind of terror. Okay right because we're encountering. A mystery that has radically other than our human nature I'm Suzanne foe, which is also the same time, somehow the source of our human nature, and that's the paradox at the heart of the faceless go that unites us to that Mr but dead different nature is very from the different nature Christianity for example would. Tell us about because as you just said, it's heavenly. It's comes from above. And here is different. Nature comes from beyond from underneath another negative way. From just! A feeling point of way. Do I, get you right there. That's right. It binds us with the mother by which I mean the. Complex of of subterranean numerous energies. But does that mean for you that your thoughts are. Street! We were mentioning peril universes before, but. These strictly bound to. Terrestrial culture right it's. Not Possible to be seen by some. I don't want to talk about extraterrestrials new wrong, but by some other world that. Could could exist out there. In the real existing universe, a material universe right is it? Is it a human interpretation or what is it? So when I talk about the cosmos I'm not simply talking about this world. that. I to exact tired in this, this world is one localized manifestation of those of those numerous energy. and. This orientation can be described. This is A. Vague term as pagan in substance that don't really like that word because of Smith's. Like Narcissism and All of this. But it's not. Nature, worship. Right. It's not like something like Neo Paganism Guy writes. Mother is a personification. We need to use personification to interact with these sure energy, but the mother is a way of speaking about this vast reservoir of primal. Energies from which the ordered universe. Yes, Sir issues forth. And and the faceless God is a kind of high pasta is a kind of incarnation. Of that principle is the meeting point of that mystery and the human being. We've kind of gateway. So if you will and Yeah. You're also using. CABALISTIC messes to to to go along that. Path in the book Can you tell us a bit? How and why right? I do that. Chapter is a little a little a all anomalous I suppose. well, there's a little bit of a nod. Kenneth grants work. I think they're accepting a pretty substantial use of the map of the of the tree of life and thirty, th the so-called nightside of the tree of life full, and that's right. So I do stress that it is simply a model that we use in order to further map out some of these visionary experiences. And they use some particular of of geometry A-. I make pretty. I make ample use of it though very targeted use of it, not quite as bewildering as you might find in the works grant yesterday and I would make the case of. The geometry AH is pretty. Compelling. In some places in the Bundy, the guy was quite. Surprised taken aback by someone. In ways that the network of ideas came into focus through the use of those methods. Now the question might be. If you're using cabalistic methods and Kabbalah transcendental ist framework. How does this square with? The CATHODIC orientation of the system, and I guess what I would say is that. Geometry is a tool. It is visionary tool. And it is precisely a a way of kind of. Blurring the boundaries between. Reason and unreason. On between reason and imagination. Or method of delusion where we kind of. Intentionally derange are ordinary ways of thinking. Kind of stretched them. Raking put an and through some kind of synchronicity and I. Don't pretend to understand. How it works. Those methods can. Can. Bring into focus. Various Esoteric threads. I don't know. I don't know why it works I I. Don't think it works because the Universe is necessarily structured according to the tree of life. Yeah, I don't think I would. See Him. But the models can be useful as nothing stunts, which is a very academic approach. In a positive way the right the model. Knowing that the model is not the reality is a way of understanding reality, and I suppose it fits in a general way with movements like chaos, magic right, where as well of course it's not so a matter of of. You Invest Belief. temporarily. In a certain model of reality as a vehicle for. Visionary Experience Equal Yeah Exactly. Yeah. Well we could go on for a long time, but our time is almost so review, or I've one last question. I have to ask you because it struck me when I read that phrase and not in your book, but. In the presentation of the book under website, you'll see on polishing. It says this work is indispensable for any serious student automatic neurosis, of course, yes, and of Able diabled Ism I'm wide that word why? To you I say you have probably. A Chord with you. Why do we use that very word? That's a good question. You know apart from from its value in marketing. To scout completely, no there is there is. A certain function. In the use of in the expectation of Fearful images. Right as I said I'm relation to the lore of the witches both. The book makes use of. Of demonized stereotypes. For one thing, it's our only point of access. We have to work through the demonized stereotypes in order to get at. The underlying reality. To some extent, we are bound to cultural horizons. If, we're engaging in an initiative. Movement away. We still have to work through that baggage. Right so that's put in a negative way that we need to do that. We need to take out of that. The positive way to put it is that. Fear can also have initiative function certain that all of that kind of. A diabolical imagery. Speaks to the initial encounter with. This mystery. As I said, there's a certain. Fear. There's a certain. Both seductive aspect to it because we're being drawn back to that primal source. But there's also something in us that fears extinction. Right. That recognizes that this is us not us. So, there's a pushing and pulling. And a strategic use of demonic imagery. can become a vehicle for. For noses and this is one of the reasons I find love crafts. Where's fiction? Is Useful as well. Yeah, yeah, sure sure. Right well. I can't let you go without asking you and hopefully the question. And, YOU'RE GONNA. Tell us more about it and. is. East, conquering twin, preparing maybe another book, or is there something in the workings that we are already allowed to know about anything that he would like to tell us in that respect? There are various possibilities, but still. Nothing nothing yet fully fully defined. Certainly David is certainly chatted about it. It has to be the right project. You know I have no interest in kind of pumping out. Books. The market for called book is oversaturated in my view. So whatever is produced good to be genuine expression. Of Nossa says I as I understand it, so I'm not going to force it but I imagine if once I have enough space. To tap into that again you go back and forth from kind of academic, said of earns and pursuits to more initiative pursuits, but I'm sure it will happen at some point. Yeah, okay, so we can be hopeful, yeah! Thank. You I appreciate. Well thank you so much for being with us here. Today was a great our seven minutes in your your company and. Really appreciate it. I think he was also a great end to this season. Four of the constant and I wish you best of luck to all your. Upcoming work personal as well as academic as well as as a writer whatever comes next, and I'll see you maybe at some point back here and thanks for and. Giving the trust US also. To be with us here today. Thank you again for the invitation. And it was. It was a true pleasure. I really appreciated your thoughtful. Questions? We covered so much difficult. Terrain absolutely thank you very much for the opportunity. Well, thank you and have today. Okay, just like you. Their. PAINTED WITH SP loose down. Track or an excerpt from a track from the CD halio pulse by said the J. who was offering us his music for today's show. Thank you once again and thank you also to Tomas Incentives. Who was our guest here today? And I think it was a fascinating interview that was really going deep and insightful and. It was also really interesting for me to talk to Thomasson Center. And now I want to thank you all you. My audience, who have been with me here, not only today, but throughout the season, and throughout now almost seventy shows altogether on this Alzheimer's podcasts. And then I say more immoral. Enjoy doing this and I. Hope we are going to have a really interesting and. Demanding also. Seasoned five that is coming up and I hope you will be all with me here. On this podcast season five will be starting on July fifth so two weeks after the release of this episode, not a long break. Of course I can't wait to release season five. What will season five bring to you well, just a few hints. So that you can know what you will be able to expect. Of course weekly show with mostly interviews each Sunday, but also from time to time every five or six weeks or so an ex liberties. Just, as we did this season for, and there are a few little changes to the latest episode, we'll also have more music. It will have more. Reports on books that I present, and we will try to do most of those presentations of books with the author him or herself, so even if it's just shorts, ten minutes injury with somebody, it will always be a little talk with the answer to make that presentation, maybe more interesting and more also reflecting on the book itself. And if I see, we will do that. I mean me and. Salah cheering? US been on the shows regularly already presenting books that she had selected, and will be even more present than do also those little interviews with. My. The all sorts that those books we present in this shows so that's the new format of liberal more detail. We will get about in the third or fourth episode into the upcoming season, because that will be the first exclusive episode in Season Five. And I'm sure you now want to know who will open the season five to see an opener will be. Frater Oscar yes, Frederick, Oscar, who has? One of the most interesting of the younger generation of magicians and writers in the field, I believe he has that great website. THEOLOGICA DOT COM, and he's been already once underneath Alzheimer's cost quite a few. Episodes back now wasn't twenty eighteen or seventeen even and he'd then ditties very I view. On a podcast back then and I'm very happy that we had him back then and I'm very happy that he have him back because he's about to release a new book. With scarlet imprint will hear more about that on the announcement on the website of course in the season five episode one in two weeks I. Don't want to give away more. So the only interviews with fraud Rocker, you will be able to find on the net. The only spoken interviews. are on the thoughts, Hermes podcasts. So it was his first, and he has not done any other since then and I'm. Really Proud and Taffy Jaffe I'm. I'm sure you're all excited about that because when I see. The download figures off his first episode. That is still going strong, and then you can see that he has excited many people around the globe with his work. Okay so that question announcement for season five, no one more thing to say expect for seasons five also new formats I think we're finally going to do those round table discussions. We are probably also finally going to do some features or special discussions. About a certain topic so special interests, topics, or some features that you think would be interesting to be done. Give me. Give me an email and let me know about it, or if you even have something that you would like to present yourself, let me know. We want to show to become a little more interactive as well so that's all. That's coming up in season five. Special thanks to all the patrons who support this show. Getting. They are becoming more and more, so it's now really really about forty ish. Already pittance that we have here. Thank you to all and. All you others who are not yet pages of the show consider of becoming edited well, said now okay. I think he won't mind. Great Well, thank you for that. Great season. We shared together and looking forward to a new season that we are again going to share. For now, I'm saying. Take care. Stay tuned. Here us. Do.