9 Episode results for "Steven Daniel Arnav"
Bob Dylan: About Man And God And Law 08: Why Dylan Matters - A Conversation with Richard Thomas
"Skin writers and critics who prophesized with their pens. Have been writing about bob dylan since he burst onto the music scene in new york city in the early nineteen sixties. When in the words of lover and patron joan baez. He was already legend. Been books about dylan for almost as long as there has been dylan to write about and in the words of death ruler lover and poet king. Solomon who said the book of ecclesiastes cheese now son. he sad be warned. My son of making many books. There is no and much study wearies the and yet we know that of the writing of books about bob dylan there seems to be. No end is guilty as charged with adding to this endless. Nece and weariness. Writing as we are about bob dylan ourselves rating at guide to bob dylan spiritual wisdom as we speak. And we're so happily guilty as charged to read a fairly large selection of those about bob dylan to as we wrap up season one of bob dylan about man and god and law and s. We thank the many of you have joined us for salvation. Yard of memory mapping america before the law love and dylan in the dead as well as our to holiday special arts as we edge up to the final episodes of season one. We're going to share an interview to with some of the finest of those writers and critics. They are the blooms. The rhoskins the kale's the riches were not interested the tiresome sport of musical cultural slings and arrows as much as they are attracted to plumbing the gaps of the work of great artist to deepen the contribution of great art to the world. We've mentioned the term me. Drawashe quite a bit over the course of our conversations about bob dylan and his work. It's what we did talk to it on back in the green pastures of new york city some years ago and we are glad that the toolkit of drage can be applied to rock and roll acid. Must if you know the new testament or the koran or the book of jubilees you know mid drage because it is the ancient jewish art adapted from greek literary rhetorical techniques of two or three thousand years ago which draws out meaning from sacred text as a mode of explaining accompanying coloring and contextualising it for the audience the creator of amid rocks represents some of our greatest and most sacred works are in fact a kind of commentary or me drage on sacred texts. That preceded them an extension and reinvention of a canonical work. Real marcus christopher ricks or this episode's guest. Richard thomas all come from different academic fields cultural criticism literature or the classics. But each sees. Dylan's cannon is being of paramount importance to how we live in the world that dylan's music demands nurturing explication for rock and roll mid gosh because the world needs to glean more from what this has to offer. Dr shaney interpret me. This is how sages of late antiquity back. In the days of early roman kings you might say imagine sacred tech shouting out to them. Give me more voice in the world. These texts said we matter more. We can say by ourselves helpless. Say more dr shaney show the world while we matter that's why writers despite king solomon's warnings and he warned us about a lot of other things too. That's why writing about bob dylan matters. And that's why this conversation with our guest. Richard thomas george martin lane professor of classics at harvard university and the author of the book. Why dylan matters worse. -treme where your assignment on the history of the western world is due and it's the last day of the semester and you can't remember the name of the singer from minnesota who changed world and then your professor shows up at the door to hear your thesis and you haven't even started yet. Well you you let me be in your dream. And i'll let you be in mind. I'm steven daniel arnav. Welcome to episode aid of bob dylan about man. And god law our conversation with richard thomas author of why dylan matters. Help me understand. We mean when we talk about a classical poet and how you and others have the audacity to propose right to the world. That dylan's one of them. Well i'll give it a shot. Yeah make classical costco's back to the latin classes which means a fleet. Obviously claus comes from it. Says ivan elitist word. I mean might as well get that out that right away at implies A body of work that at least in its its primary understood sense. You know you have classic classic race horses in plastic boxes and so on but it implies from its First applications to greek and latin literature and reception about literature in antiquity in the middle ages and and beyond in a body of literature that is beyond compare at his in a class of its own. That is at is there for classical so we talked about classical latin and And late latin and medieval latin and neo latin soul of those labels in the sense. Look at the fact that. Oh it's like guitar. Las battle harris classical poets the poets to whom all later literature innocence looks back at me. Look back in terms of changing christianizing. That may look back in terms of translating it. Parodying it in any sort of way so that That you know that sort of the starting point. And so. That's why i'm classicist beacon latin literature those ages fairy away to a saline away is something Can send you from across the police that be landing at the time and that can be applied to race sources oxygen and others takes on the meaning of classic rock. You sandwich bills lives. you know. it's been said. I think johnson setup you sent a of the things attributed term about that class against something. Everybody knows that nobody reads okay. That's quite. we're not quite there yet with my classical poets but select. Yeah that certainly everybody knows. And you see the recent hullabaloo about dylan meet some list pal. Don't play time sour changing ball and then the wind ask about it. So that that dylan. The classic is i mean and that's true. Let's truth to that fifty sixty year old songs Still around where if you situate your youth youth further. You're not gonna find many fifty. Yes before he still household names and titles and to that extent. Dylan's a classic for me. He's he's stands side by side with my ancient classical poets in that i think he he has something to say and he says it in a way and sings it away. Got that it's going to be around. It's going to be around beyond time being an eventually on his my lifetime. See that's tests showed the song said being bought out. They is universal pre figuring it. Can it can make a few bucks in the next ten. Fifteen twenty years while nas. Maybe wanting to buy things during the commercial breaks football games or go beyond that. Now i really. What universal thinks me you know maybe a sound business practice. But i think they also. I think one shouldn't be cynical. I think the recognition that is something special about this About what is down and so that. Yeah that makes him classical certain people. Let's say appreciate dylan who Do appreciate the my. I can't even say my day job. Now because dylan's also my day job a seminar before yes but those who appreciate the ancient poets but not dylan really bothered to try. Say how can you compare the two and i. I used to be a little defensive and trying to explain a but now i just Symptom of my age. But i just Say well have listen and then let's talk but it doesn't bother me. I become confident in my own skin and my own set of critical sense in my ability to explain it to myself that this is a reality. That yeah that dylan that's a classic so we've already asked the three hundred million dollar question in in answering you. You mentioned instant. Interestingly enough Boxing and horse races right. So when i would typically think of Classical poets I think we'll they would never write about such things as horse racing and boxing right. That's too low brow. obviously dylan. Who's got a whole range of topics an interest. He also writes about sex drugs and rock and roll just like many of his cohorts but also brings to bear all variety of theological intellectual spiritual questions. Give the classical poets outright about horse racing and boxing in sex and drugs and rock and roll to said another literature. Another song is going to appeal. If it doesn't appeal to the the the sentient human beings who Reading them who have gone through experiences and who encounter those experienced doesn't chariot race in in elliott than a boxing match in the aeneid indian set of into textual of the Of the aeneid. He's looking back to the funeral games. Patrick la's he writes about the funeral games for an casey's father of the nia sensor and it says the relationship to home is also And does naturally have have. I am a horse race. He has a boxing match. Instead which also in much briefer form and the iliad in that boxing match in india nia when boxes smashing of brian's of another one out there sort of lead weighted gloves not too gentle. And you can see it if you ever enrolled him Again as we hope we will be in the capital and not the capitoline in a lot so massimo the archaeological museum right across on the train station the boxer you can google that box whose. Cj looking down he's in bronze and you can see the sky. You can see the blood in bronze and you can see his hands at wrapped with these songs. And you just see the pain and the grief in his face and virgil bring sat out in his poem. So that so that all great literature and i mean all great literature has aspects that appeal and music so same alerts of the same that appeal to human being some now. They may be stylized put in a into something that goes into mythology or into religious fairs. That may leave. You know on this radar that behind the Connections to those highest fans a possible because because of the humanity of literature or literature so vegemite seem ancient and noble and classic us criticized in his own day for using contemporary words with different shades. Of meaning now you could say that about dylan's language of dylan as well that changing language in your use of language that poets and you know song light light dylan does so yeah so comes grand and noble and distance if we lead become grand noble distant and if we don't engage through close reading the aspects of awara trojan in his city destroyed They had westwood end up in. Italy ended up in a battle for land. That looks like civil war. That's that's happening and vegetables. Used and this soldier dies looking up at the foreign sky. You know young soldier dying looking up with a foreign sky thinking of his mother back on mount ida like that in any way you like from iraq to kind of stand for no and reform law. That never changes. Its masters of what will never ha- fashion because rich men always gonna come stay. Rich young men can see through your masks use. It never done nothing but bill to destroy with my own little toy. You've heard gary among the mirror. That i grew up in san many decades ago that was. We encountered the classics in high school. And i'm wondering about this Formative impact of just the sensibility of youth the richness the unknow ability of the feelings that a teenager encounters and how that really is the crux of were rock and roll is born as cultural phenomena it explodes this idea of teenagers in youth and then here is on now. We have rockin rollers who are approaching their eighties. What is the weight of the experience of the emergent youth for the classical poets. In how you juxtapose that dylan who does spend a lot of creative time reflecting on the past reflecting on is coming of age and certainly if we hear his nobel lecture how it was the literature of his teenage years that he credits with being the formative content for his creative vision. And that's fantastic and huge question. Yeah in terms of dylan. Who went to this amazing public high school which was very well funded because of the disruption and because of the importance of education vocational for the For those working on the iron range but he read this stuff. I mean we stop and what my discovery of course was was that he'd been in the latin club and lot of us in the last couple of years. He did lacking for a couple of years. It's one. I think nine boys and fifty girls that may be why he was in latin club I don't think science. I'd suggest in the bucket. Also be seeing a lot of these rome movies sword and sandal movies of the fifties. The movies that hollywood was making because it couldn't make movies about washington and said they saw that mccarthy stops so that rome becomes a metaphor and dylan janka loans's movie house when those that was going to the movies free i think he i think is a lot more to it than that. Not just being made of his teaching my met his teachers. Teach as you know. Obviously this really cool guy. Jaas older than dylan. I guess a mall A sort of fifties at another use a beat that he was rally into literature knees into reading poetry out loud. Which again is a connection to antiquity poetry. Not to be read silently in depending on how he read saint augustine and brahmins navy even if their lips when they read silently. We can't be sure that recipe reading out loud from the right beginning Is what it's all about. And that's what this guy did. And if we believe. I'm dylan bobby. Robert called him and he'll knock it says it's a great article about that Someone go on more. But that dylan dylan being genius. Set us and you don't become a genius when you sit down. Nineteen sixty five and decide to go electric electrichouston genius from a very early age. And so those early years. Sarah potent being aware of that of that background. I think was important is important of sorts of things he might have studied without. I try not to get biographical. Being aware of what dylan was educated. In as being aware of what vaginal was educated in this part of the analysis or assessment that you know it's of that roman middle school practice as with all of us who think about literature. Our man he's lux some view. The law got bull labs data seen him call with my mother. Even what's things kamla or they all. You can smell the pie. Would you can data up teaches. You can't if you on learn and grow live you gotta hook on election done give you a fair and celebi said back to romeo. I don did just shove off. If it bothers you spend a fair amount of time on some of the more respect albums you use see a kind of return to some of the themes in the actual texts of the classics in dylan knowing that he followed the pattern of deep immersion for him. The content was music But he also drank in all of this classical content in certainly literature and their teams to be a emergence of that content later pattern or is that sort of wishful nope prize thinking on my part. Yeah i think that's again a huge question. I mean and i don't pretend that. He remembers much of his lack. Not that he read any of these venues in school i think is is song composition is coming yance accu from those other places within his own genius that makes them and you know including that trip to london at the end of sixty two when he has not godsey seeing scarborough. And you know it gives us in. Spanish lava right. Yeah when he when he has Lady franklin's lament mid-nineteenth century. Bob dylan stream sleep on man raised during and made me say concern first. Few friends ahead. Do you believe that considering all felt that you know. I remember what happened to this too good high school friends who killed themselves fifty years ago. You know you remember that. Particularly on dylan's a few years out of that status since high school stats at he. So that's an experience. It's projected experience That maps onto a saw which is about absence and loss of a very different. That's genius that's not literary. That's not from nothing. Read at strongest songs that has lining say. He's he's is borrowing people's records collections and returning that sending guys get back from matt. Matt dillon having access to that stop his hunger and does need to do that. It's a it's a hunger in need of an artist to notice what he's doing those in need so you know and say right about. Everyone's talked about the ed bradley comment but no. I can't do songs like that. It's all right mind picture. The lines can't do that. But i can do other things. So that's a statement of the twenty first century and. Yeah it's really. I've found some. I'm i'm convinced convince myself that. In changing gods and nineteen seventy eight is being reading. Schedules fourth eh clogged the mess. Ianna o'clock when the young boy is on a thirty five forty is before us. Jesus when a young boy is on we'll start going back to the golden age elements in the song drive says matches songs including jupiter and apollo. That have you know. I'm happy with dylan's having read integrating slightly that song but not in inter textual way. It's and you can look at a song like trying to get a heaven which few pages on the index so that was a blues gospel just remarkable. Almost every line has a has a status in some other song. But you try writing. That song at that is just to me. That's one of my absolute favorite songs of many many out of this recent catalogue. But but they're dylan again. He's here. I don't think that's okay. She's not eating hair but then in two thousand one when rarely the process stops Not just the. But with and tim rodber out friend bob alito meal back in two thousand seven about that discovery was sky cliffs fell and zealand to reading it and suddenly the page started singing to him because he what modern times mountain towns we end up finding all these offered line. So arvid you know. And i think that's telling that audience exile last owns about. It's up to the black sea of the ones that do discovers. How does he discover this penguin. Translation of alvin exile owns not. Let's say to people send me of. Its pick it up in. You know in the doctor's office but he but he has a habit of picking up things confessions of a yakuza aeneid textile poems and in translation that oppo that even written as prose they have a poetry and music to the man. He i think at that point of his career. He's seeing on the page and threw his self reading. He's he's hearing the music and the potential of them and and so. Yeah so addicted love and theft modern times than rough and rowdy ways. A lot of the ancient. Materialists they I had to finish the book a month before the nobel lecture i knew he have to do a nobel lecture by june of two thousand seventy into. I got the jack and so my punish gave me said. I'll give you a week after the date by which you'd have to do. The lecture any did and they odyssey material at the end was pretty much accurate written all of that because i'd seen what he was doing. What the odyssey and a song know. That was confirmation. But also that is prominence. In that lecture. I think it's important to note from electro that really takes you from yet through the key. Points of his ferry doesn't touch on the religious varied which is interesting. You have a dozen chronicles value to be interesting to know if you get sad. But i don't think you will hear. Just give us the songs but buddy holly lead belly folk and the vernacular folk that is inhabiting a nets a form of transfiguration becoming those figures as he brilliantly puts it in the lecture and end books he read yeah and ending with the moby dick. Oh quiet on the western front and the odyssey and ending the odyssey injustice his brilliant reading. Of course you know he. He has in recounts thing in the odyssey Where dismayed thereby kelly's and kelly since died died for glory shade. Evacuate says store revealing to do this Achilles traded life full of peace in content for a short one full of honor and glory tells the dishes. It was all a mistake. I just died that soul. I just died. That's a best dylan not is now on. No one wants how they feel good. You would choose to go back and be a literally slaved attendant farm on us rather than be what he is. A king in the land of the dead and setting up of course is climax. Which is that's what songs l. songs are alive and in the land of the living and that gets a stack to universal's decision and i think dylan's recognition And certainly one. That i would embrace set. His songs are the land living alive in the land of living And room beyond his time beyond our time at justice poems. And i think that's he picks the oldest in in in in the west tradition To be talking about poetry that is and in the land of the living Seen me saying how chance add c of the and the fun see hot women because so there does seem to be very clear consciousness for dylan of what he is doing what he is up to them and the lecture really laid out in clear terms how he works. You think that as someone who has has written and taught about dylan that he despite his protesting as a bit of attention to what certain scholars are saying about him. Have you had any sense that he may have been paying attention to what you been working out. Yeah i try not to go there because An you get you get stuck there. A few new may bet. I have reason to believe she read that particular page of my book which i Which has to do with a eliane about the might sense. At dillon has a moral center to and that's very strong. I have a reason to believe that good reasons. I won't go into a. Yeah i that you know. Hey bob buster read chapter three of my book. So that's why he right crossing the rubicon. Yeah it does that. I i i mean. I think it's aware that on the other hand. The world of research has gone beserk too much people. Look it's the other at suddenly. This professors don't do well in the songs of the nineteen sixties so Yeah i think dylan aware of the world around him and You know he just look. Don't look back and stuff. he's reading reviews with. And that's that's really the last. I think we have real evidence of his attending to that. But you know i. He how he discovered the classical material which is not through. I or anyone else has written about him. Serendipitous like his reading which is not thought to nanako. Not coming out of any great books. Course annette's the blessing of it you know that he he gets to moby dick and gets to the odyssey you know he'd read those things. Some of those things and clayton the odyssey. It was said read in high schools in translation with them. But i think he gets to the uses himself and so any rights when he when he summarizes the odyssey and the brilliant set of passages e at drugs but in his mind he slept with the wrong women and stuff and so then he says you to and and a youtube respond. John you know what i think. He's clearly saying that is what he's doing in songs like ten angel and early roman kings. He's the characters of the songs of becoming a deceased just as surely as say the characters in highway sixty one or other songs are emerging trend vernacular of folk song said that when he talks about mastering the acura that in selangor language as of potent music and when he talks about imply deceased and are the same thing to see us of the odyssey and the characters songs on tempest yet. I mean he. I think it's the same process ramble. Burn travelling at alma through coming home. What what is happening In the mind of the poet. How is that draw to mythology so strong. And and what does it mean for us. Yeah it has to start with with with the poetry that he's reading mattering and so i think particularly the odyssey Jining twenty years at looking for home. You know the analogies with dylan obvious dylan on the road until cova came Whereas dylan song malibu. Hibbing new york city north of scotland. So all of the above you know where the highlands is that the highlands so northern minnesota or scotland a highlands of the mind so i think an odyssey in a deep read the odyssey because of the stories. Dude you a lot. The character the characters Go through and how that relates to what we go through that initial impulse to To engage in one songwriting and not get too romantic about it songwriting. It's very careful. Songwriting once. You know the source text has made its impression on the mind of the artist and eighty percent of the rest of it is a hard work of getting the song right integrating devices of Of the sauce model into the new song so that process is one that is you know. One to assistant composition faction not just feeling a response to a to a religious or song. Wind sun'll lewd back at the blood on other one must day hot air biz above leaves big in tuesday. I'm in love with second cousin. Non tell myself have. And then i think that you know that. The recognition of that read The readers recognition of that agreement is equating dylan in the character. In a bob dylan song. Listen this yes. It's i find incredibly enriching because it sets that song in a tradition that goes back through time through other authors through dante through milton through diet show back to home and in the process in my mind doing is put into that. Tradition is just somebody just manifestation up the reception and autistic renovation. That tradition now is bob dylan thinking i want. Thomas think that. I'm in a tradition. That goes back to home. So i'll use this line in that way of course not but his processed the process must always be cognizant of a read or santa. Rita's an idea. Rita as critics last millennium talked about it always. Who are you writing for writing. Feel self primarily but you'll survive to. It may be just one person. Not maybe maybe more than that i. It's complex dell found in the odyssey fertile ground for growing his own songs of the particularly an album and then sunlight can blues join but we trades in office. He where he he gives up those beautiful lines that no one could ever say that. I took a bomb against you of its address to the emperor. Augustus switched dylan his music. Degrades translation of the latin takes dive into a context which is addressed to love lava. He's not around anymore. No one could ever say arms against just a way in which he sings that it matches that relationship that's lawson matters that says he's seen something off that he's reapplied it and that how the best job s eliot talks about stealing being re renovating on re-applying and different conflicts but doing in performance gets rid of that and bob dylan just bounding out of the timberland. I hit him square in the background. Halfway down the spine. Take these lines right out of the odyssey and trades. And i think what he's consciously doing there is switching out the exiled audit who by the way in exile poems to dishes that he's switching switching out the exiled of it for the the homecoming seeking this telling stories singing songs. Same thing and in greek epic Singing songs to an audience. That sorta dishes is doing. And that's what dylan impo performance in. That changed lyric in. Performance is doing and that's one of the many ways in which he's like an oral poet and if you think about obama didn't come out of nothing you know the poems the distillation and centuries of our literature. And that's what dylan's lincoln sing barbara. Allen is a century centuries-old som- but he can also it's barbara allen into and to ten angel song ballard that he's read working so that's and that's exactly what i think america poems. They're both in a tradition that they also have a creative genius. That's controversial among scholars. That i have to believe as creative genius behind the manipulation and then composition of of the poems may be two different poets. Not so you you. You mentioned kind of the ends history of the line of transmission of of the bullets from homer to to dylan and and also said that You're pretty sure that he's not composing with you or any other potential scholar in mind but he did leave. Some early impelling comes in that interview in two thousand and all with the game. More about trans figuration. When i first read it. I thought ono delays really gone off the deep end. The sounds cultic. the sounds crazy But then as the as common matured and particularly in the way that you cured it and and turned it in different ways it really starts to make sense In understanding where dylan feeds off of and positions himself within tradition. So i d do you think that he planted those clues as a way of providing different ways for hearing his work. It just so happened. That was on his mind How much of it is conscious much practice and how much of it is once again. The song and dance man being the right song dance at the right time term the transfiguration which is so compelling. Yeah well. I think it's always you know particularly those interviews. He has the right around the release of an album in alerts rome interviews for in that summer of two thousand one before kept came out the gilmore blind. He's he's he knows what he's doing and term serve alluding to again an texture audi between the interview and songs that even if he doesn't mention them casually mentioned in passing are positive weathers of so. Yeah the everything. And i was particularly pleased with those pages with figuring out what i think he meant by one of the things he meant by transfiguration lived in more less dramatic. Way less lively way. You could say it's like in detects geology. And it's like becoming characters folk song and the novell lecture but of religious aspect to it in the spiritual aspect of it which also has a take you out with a zimmerman mother decide call dies gets transfigure not saying anything but you know that both called every. Don't bother about chronological gap. That doesn't quite work out. But intel is puppet master started thinking that i mean michael deal. One of the greatest set of righted interviews. But but dylan. Dylan's pulling the strings there and i think laying down clues in a way but just eternally faithful and a sense of elusive and enjoying himself and running the show. So so since you know we have this wonderful opportunity here to ask a professor of classics some of the questions that Buzz around i three o'clock in the morning around the tables where people just can't stop talking about. Dylan where do you find the the most compelling analog people talk about dylan homer people talk about dylan shakespeare people talk about dylan in whitman if you had to choose a poet In in the cannon that your most engaged with who really Has that kind of dylan times. Feel or dylan is the that of of dylan's times who would it be. Who's the go-to person three. Yeah probably given given. Songwriting is now stretched into its third generation. Probably need more than one. But the early dylan. I think kato's can tell us comes along and blows away on what's happening in roman poetry. We only fragmentary remains. But we can tell what dylan is. What do these friday. And i can tell us. Doing is absolutely revolutionary. The same way that what doubts in. Let's say sixty three to sixty six is doing so that. We writing song posting puzzling. His audience particularly the more conservative members. Who don't you know something's happening here. let you don't know what it is missed the Cicero shall we say like the old literature and has accused of digs at catala. Very komo's destroyed new poets or they say calls themselves as conservative not in a bad sense but conservative attitudes towards literature is something that you find you know and you find traces of that now and you know in doing getting a nobel outrageous but that's what revolutionary artist duke picasso did can tell us out so in that moment billing in the mid seventy s to me through the rest of the century. Think of agile as the mature The classic who you know even if sat parodying him in you know tickets of parody dylan over the years that you don't get parodied if you're meaningless. Send a It's it's not something quality there that you're trying to take down and then the later and i'm not being autobiographical. I'm talking about the voice of dylan from ninety-seven on of the deliberately tired voice and lyrics of as as sad uh of a one out ill grim that that voice of offic which is also constructed vice the audit of has exiled. Yes is one that i identify those exile poems with the later. But then you know rough and rowdy ways which by the way has mother amuses crossing the rubicon but doesn't have the word for word into texture -ality that That the previous few albums that had a net that to me is very interesting. I'm still absorbing and thinking about that. But that dylan's into texture. The myself what. Julius caesar would do not like julius caesar would do and but the at one point quotes that waiting over there by the cyprus tree where where trojan women and children are being sold into slavery. That's right out of the near. That's that's not out of anywhere else. Cyprus solitary cyprus tree and and the fact that the greeks are selling the trojans offer taking them off into slavery but that's not he's not coaching trump's specific translations of specific lines of amazon's avocado or juvenile. He's also he also has juvenile the satirist. He seems to have a wonderful talk about threes or triads These these cycles. So you see we mentioned entered the three phases. Catalysts virgil avid uc. Rough and rowdy ways as being at the end of eero or the beginning of a new. Yeah i i. Don't i don't quite know where to put that yet. I'm still. I'm still thinking about it listening to it. But not i. I did something in the the Online dylan review newish online dylan review on the just got another classical dylan. So devan nate classical aspects of that album. But i haven't quite figured it out yet. I made up. There are songs of your beauty decided. I've made up my mind to give myself to you and and particularly key west. I mean worth that everything that you know that opening the musical opening to to the very end I don't know where to put that Album including nate is needed entirety of the album including demus foul I just don't yet know what to do with that. But it's not it's not A downswing in any way since great album in my view any that. He's done saying not every album that comes along but That's a fantastic album. And i think if you listen to mother muses and read the end of the nobel lecture on the muses In the saw wallis deliberately quotes from me amused and threw me. Tell the story and said nobel lecture will. That's where this that's where that song nother amusements. Rarely began spat and replacing the greek and trojan warriors. Rent the generals of the civil war world war american in russia and It's it's amazing. Yes so two questions to the first. Anything really surprised you. When you immerse yourself in this research something that just had not engaged with before whether it was a particular twist and turn of a song something. Theoretical lag graphical. What surprised you in your exploration. The whale yeah. i mean. It's been a gradual process from the nineteen nineties particularly through the poetry of cantatas. Beginning to think about dylan not just something. I did listen to on the side but someone ice sellers only like my ancient poet so that was gradual. There were no ha moments And i think the the ave on modern times and and the materials were were obviously sensational promptly listening to lonesome day blues Which is the first rally fully inter. Textual quoting are the confessions of yakuza. Mark twain. Joel that's where he really is beginning to sort of quote drunk in quite fearless and creative ways and so it was. I hearing lonesome day blues. And i you know the words. I'm gonna tame the proud and just knowing that that was virgil so that was that was. That was a great moment so that was a moment. I i bought the album net. Wanting i i guess i confess that nine eleven two thousand and one i bought it. I didn't listen to it. I bought it in a state of shock right after since tower records oakland at ten and i want to make sure i got that the news from new york and washington just an hour old that i didn't listen to it for a few days but when i did i had lunch and dave lewis and i had some graduate students who are dylan fans to and we just just blown by. The fact that at bob was singing gradual. But i hadn't yet take it out. Other than the presence of apollo jupiter apollo in cage the gods. They hadn't yet figured out where that was coming from virgils cannon but so that was that was pretty new and that yeah that would be the that would be that. I can the moment i think so. If you were a recall ellen sang that site in wide villain matters that One of the pats not taken for him was to be a latin teacher. Teacher of roman history was teacher teacher. Roman history history of very good roman history sociology. Let's imagine that you're the one that gets to pull up your cheer close to the teacher and you get one question one question. Only what. What would you want to ask dylan if he could. Yeah i i'd be curious to know what what he in myspace three as as hitting contact with. And i don't again. I don't think he picked up much in detail from lack of try but i'd be interested to know when he did start reading a lot of stuff in his fifty s and sixty s seventy s and how much it took him back to those days Because he was yeah. He was thirty on the radio. Program of the latin club inducted members and elevated them from sir vile to plebeian status And you remember stuff like that. So i doubt i would guess i would inquire about that. I mean that probably doesn't sound very imaginative listeners. Lauren the green pastures of harvard university. So you know one must stick to Guns and interests but i think that The specifics of how you've been able to leave of very accessible very compelling narrative in in wytheville matters Really leaning into scholarship in a way that readable and accessible and interesting and does not cut corners and So much happens in that book that you've written. I think that it's a a wonderful service to to those of us who are listening in curious. And and wondering about how. Dylan's reading listening and writing all works in concert in a sense And and boston is is Is quite greedy with. It's still in scholarship. Because i really do think it your book in christopher's christopher ricks is wonderful. Dylan's vision of sin catapults of the dylan conversation. New places when it comes to The great books to classical poetry re context chelation in in a powerful wonderful way so Thank you chris. Direct of course is a scholar. Who made it. Okay in a way to to on dylan so we should never forget that which he you know. He made not just that book but the amazing lyrics tom that he put out with with scholarship and reading and Close reading metrical analysis. That goes into that edition. And it's it's every page is less study in terms of his reorganizing the lyrics according to the poetry as he has nobody has poetry and ryan better than and he does. It's a pleasure to talk with you. Linda to reconnect after that That just amazing. Few days that we all spent in the university of minnesota in total dylan immersion overload with people from all over the world. And i recommend to everybody why dylan matters. I don't know if richard if you've been able to answer the question but you've given a really good college tribe. I'm i am convinced. I will stay publicly. Yes dylan does indeed matter. But great writing about dylan Such as yours mainly a mix matter even more so thanks for that. Thank you steve. Need in baseball. Get along. This has been a conversation with richard. Thomas george martin lane professor of the classics at harvard university and the author of the book. Just why dylan matters. Thank you richard for stellar conversation. Be sure to me about it if you know it still. You've got to final assignments for you. As we finish up season. One of bob dylan about man and god and law. I a special surprise interview with adila night. Everybody knows and as our capstone episode dylan at home finding follow us at. Www dot man. God law dot com for clips shown oats writing in more subscribe rate and share anywhere. Podcasts found help this project. We are proud to be part of the pantheon. Podcast network the home for the most compelling music podcasts in the whole wide world. i'm steven daniel arnav. Thanks for coming and senior. They asked the size of a suicide. Brent changed bagel bombing requisition.
Bob Dylan: About Man And God And Law - Holiday Specialette Part Two - Must Be Santa
"You've heard the music now. Here's the story from director frank marshall. Hbo's new documentary the bg's how can you mend broken heart. Chronicles the highs and lows of brothers berry maurice and robin gibb and the evolution of the prolific career as the bg's through interviews and never before seen footage discover how they navigated the ever changing music industry and complex dynamics of family and fame. Watch it now on hbo and hbo. Max you welcome one. Welcome all i'm steven. Daniel arnav host and creator. Bob dylan about man. And god and law rejoiced. With elvis. And bob dylan singing. Hovena gila in our first ever holiday. Special ed part one hanukkah but that was then this is now and it's time for part two and you know just like we do just what this must meet. It must be sector picture to see bob dylan and a rocking slap dasher d. And don ary. Polka band are on the stage. And then they're in the hall and seventy at the top of the stairs at our rocking house party somewhere snowy and cozy and everyone seems to be drunk as spasm. Dylan's a thin dirty blond wig. Nine dollar ninety nine cents special from ricky's and there's a santa claus cap looping san every musical artists in it for the long haul comes up against a few musical mountains to climb in his or her journey to the top dylan says that one of his was recording the sinatra catalog five albums worth of tunes and then there's perhaps the highest good tiding est mountain of the mall. The christmas el elvis did one being crosby and the jackson. Five two and frank sinatra of course. They all did christmas albums. And so did bob dylan. Two thousand nine. Christmas in the heart must be sent. A was the single s with his jerry. Nelson saying this. Why now bob. That's what leonard cohen said to his pal. Jennifer warnes when she told cohen that dylan had taken on evangelical christianity back. Reagan bush jerry successor. Back off turn. Well why now in two thousand and nine when recorded it. That is why. Climb the mountain of christmas album bob. We get that you wanted to climb that musical mountain but we also heard you tell rolling stone in episode one of this show that organized religion had done anything good for the world and that religion is mostly appearances. You'd gone deep way. Deep into christianity decades before and seemingly toned down on traditional tidings even as the spiritual transcendence was never far away also from episode one. We know that religion whether he talks about it or swears edit or phrases. It has always been serious. Business for bob dylan. He told critic net heads off in the sixties at salvation was his essential creative goal and as far as he was concerned and wrote in chronicles forty years. Later that america was crucified died on the cross and was reborn in the original sin of slavery and that it was in fact. This theme originally american sin. That was the driver of all the work that he does that sees. But though you spell do the at this catchy tune. This kitschy to the freewheeling bar fight with the song's protagonist jumping out the window to his escape while dylan and a proper saint. Nick just shrug their shoulders to each other. These wacky scenes are on the surface. Just a bit of good clean weird and wild fun one could say. There is no reason for the scene or the tune or the album itself other than dylan wanting to do what franken. Elvis might have done a good old fashioned american christmas album. Bob dylan is not an artist of any one thing. What would elvis or frank do also begs the question. What would jesus do. What would god want us to do. What's it all about season. Cinta celebration itself and here a we laws that they come must be the mother of our law. This christmas party ends in broken glass. And what does this broken glass reflect. There's an ancient story of god's taking human form a call for brotherhood triumph and triumphalism of the spirit and also as is the case on somewhat contemporaneous. Videos like duquesne whistle and beyond. Here lies. nothing. There is blood and violence as revelries explode to the very tip of death as passion brews and rage that cannot be contained. Blows the story we can enjoy dylan. It as silly as soon as wigan cap sneaking amongst the hipster revelers schmoozing with santa. but that's not all there is nothing is innocent and scarlet town or santo. Listen to kim. Blowy his dog killed must be sent. In the christmas story itself both end with a divine visitor. Cast out of the window of the world. No of eggnog and good cheer will wash. That fact way must be santa. What imaginary heroes are. We counting on to save us from the violence. Love and religion sometimes cover when you get right down to. The religious search is any triumphant gift really given without a price can holidays of existential disruption like thanksgiving hanukkah christmas. Can they ever truly outgrow their bloody roots embody peace at who pays the price when they do. It's just a house party with a strange looking santa but these questions remain hanging in the air and on the tree even as the polling place on and think here inside downside thanks for joining part. Two of our very first ever holiday special ed. You're all of season. One of bob dylan about man and god and law at man. God law dot com coming soon. Our conversation with richard. Thomas author of y dylan matters. And then the final episode of season. One bob dylan and we are proud to be part of the pantheon podcast network. Check out all of our great podcast for music. Lovers at pantheon podcasts dot com. Thanks for coming happy holidays and see you soon. A psychologist does joe's oil where god's taliban streaming now on red box on demand experiencing credible of legendary blues artists joe bonomo asa in qatar man featuring behind the scenes interviews and live concert footage with some of the biggest names in music. String guitar instantly on your smart tv or favorite device with the rent box app today rated pg thirteen from paramount pictures.
Bob Dylan: About Man and God and Law 01 - Salvation
"Villain. Was He was a revolutionary man the way that the way that Elvis freed your body Bob freed your mind. This is Bob Dylan. About Ma'am. And God and Law. Blue. When I look out out there when I look into your faces, you know what? I see. I see a little bit of Elvis in each and every one of you out there limit you. Body. That's right and I have to say there with the. Mojo Nixon sings a tune called Elvis is everywhere. It's a tongue-in-cheek deification of the King Elvis who seemed to pop up all over the place in the eighties and nineties he was in people's Dreams tabloid headlines An impersonator at a wedding or in a television commercial you might remember this is Elvis TV series chasing down his history which was narrated by an Elvis impersonator as if it was Elvis himself speaking, and then what are you know there was elvis buying a slurpee at the seven eleven down the street just a few minutes later. Elvis was a pop culture mythic force documented by buzz seeking journalists and intellectuals alike evidence of the hunger in American culture to meet Gods and angels in dreams and Oracles just like believers would meet the divine long long ago. When I look into your eyes out there Mojo Nixon sang when I look into your faces. You know what I see. I see a little bit of Elvis in each and every one of you out there. Let me tell you well Elvis is everywhere. Today as a force in popular culture as as the baby boomers have aged pop culture itself has become ever more stratified by demographics and John Resin platforms. Elvis is no longer everywhere. But Bob Dylan is. At the decidedly non pop age of seventy nine, which is nearly double Elvis's age at Death Dylan has had the number one pop song in the land with murder most foul. Look to the chatter where the wheels of pop culture turn choose almost any point of view biographical, political, religious, literary, musical, philosophical, or historical, and the chances are that it's being used to explain Bob Dylan and his work hundreds of books, thousands of articles, and at ever expanding universe of list-serve websites, magazines, academic courses, and conferences Sing Dylan's loyal chorus of commentary. Edging towards seventh decade on the Public Stage Dylan continues to waive his baton in every direction urging the chorus onward. Even if we know he's not much for choruses. Dylan's work has repercussions not only for those of US still fascinated by his continuing contribution to popular culture but also for anyone who cares about how popular culture shapes the world. have got my back to the sun because the light is too intense. Dylan sings and sugar baby. I can see what everybody in the world is up against. You can't turn back. You can't come back sometimes we push too far. One day, you'll open up your eyes and you'll see where we are. From more than half a century trying to understand dylan songs has been for many. Like unfolding the criss crossing lines of a map of the entire world. Well. We're going to take a shot at reading those maps particularly in a moment where the world we thought we knew seems like an charted territory. I'm Steven, Daniel Arnav, and this is Bob Dylan about man and God and Law a podcast that tells the story of how Bob Dylan sparked a revolution of spirit and why it matters. To, open up our eyes to the music of Bob Dylan not only see where we really are. But where we need to go. So. Welcome to episode one of Bob Dylan about man and God and Law Salvation to be. On. Not to be. that. Is the question. Now. Long before the unlikely chart topper murder most foul expounded upon a line from Hamlet Taufer strange comfort to a world jolted by Cova nineteen and protests and riots against racism. In the spring of two, thousand, twenty Bob Dylan was searching for salvation in a limousine hurtling across the British countryside. The year was nineteen, sixty five. Dylan and his posse had taken their places in a dreamlike reflection on the silver screen in a scene imagined in Todd Haynes is two thousand, seven film based on Dylan songs and story. The film is called. I'm not there. But let's give this contexts. Context by nineteen, sixty, five dylan had become the most important cultural figure of the twentieth century. This was the period his most concentrated in fierce creative influence in the spin of just fifteen months March nineteen, sixty, five to may nineteen, sixty, six, dylan released three of the greatest rock albums of all time. Bringing it all back home highway sixty, one revisited and blonde on. Blonde. His songwriting and recording were feverishly prolific. He had taken on am vicious publishing and film projects and took part in an exhausting live tours spanning four continents backed by a crew of road warriors who would later become known as the band. The shows on this tour documented in D. A. Penna Bakers pioneering rock doc don't look back included a first set of Solo Acoustic renditions of epic musical dreamscapes that had shattered the mold of songwriting for pop by the Time Dylan, was twenty three. And then a scorching said of angry loud rock intitiated the punks just as those punks were getting their first guitars. In the UK the period that Hanes, his film calls upon vividly there were walkouts heckling and even famous shout of Judas in Manchester as reimagined in I'm not there dylan passes the time on a long ride. The quiet home of a black limo a well-dressed journalist with the patrician accent, stern jaw and diamond cutting stare of a very serious man questions him. As evidenced by penna Baker's film and other footage from the same period, dylan was frenetic, sarcastic confident and very funny as he conjured both the destination and the map for a new age of music celebrity the Rockstar as a seeker of truth and hipster scene maker all at once. This New Paradigm for the possibilities, of Pop, Gurus both confounded and excited the press and Dylan played his role. masterfully, journalists sparred with a scruffy hair chain smoking dylan whose press conferences from San Francisco to Paris became spoken word happenings. A flow of questions ranging from the nature of hygiene on the road to the meaning of life would be asked of rockstars for decades to come. And Bob. Dylan. He was inventing them. How many people who Labor in the same musical vineyard in which you toil how many are protests singers that is people who use their music and use the songs to protest the social state in which we live today the matter of war, the matter of crime or whatever it might be How many? Yes. Are there many? There's about. One, hundred, thirty, six. Say about one, hundred and thirty six. Are you mean exactly a hundred and thirty six Thirty six, hundred, forty, two, as the press hounded him for explanations about where he was really at and what was it? He wanted Dylan played with them like a cat plays with a mouse cigarette smoke curling to the ceiling and photo bulbs or flashing how for Carl, Solomon. I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness starving hysterical naked dragging themselves through the Negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix angel headed hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry Dynamo in the machinery of night who poverty in tatters and hollow I like any master of any art Bob Dylan has had many teachers. Allen. Ginsberg a pop intellectual pioneer whose creative line of American sexuality and spiritualism links back to walt. Whitman. Once said of Dylan there is a very famous saying among Tibetan Buddhists. If the student is not better than the teacher. Then, the teacher is a failure. It was Ginsburg symbolically chuckling in a prayer shawl in the background of video for subterranean homesick blues while Dylan per passively tossed away placards imprinted with the key words of the song in a style, anticipating mashups of image text and sound nearly two decades before MTV standardized. This modus for all media it was also Ginsburg who offered magnanimous praise occasional liner notes and a lot of poetic license as validation of Dylan's gifts even as Ginsberg's own pop intellectual cultural poll slackened while rock and roll's grew. So this is the context. Dylan is a force of nature disrupting popular culture. He's inherited the mantle of provocation from the beats and its most prominent figure outside of perhaps Jack Kerouac in Allen Ginsberg. And now he's in the midst of a tour that cracks open the possibilities for Rockstar myth making. The scene and I'm not there brings it all back home. GINSBURG putters up alongside Dylan's limo and Dylan played in an almost perfect impersonation by the actress Cate Blanchett gets asked the question whose answer will define the spiritual redemptive revolutionary potential for rock and roll meaning that defines the journey of Dylan's entire career as well. Eight o'clock gaining English. Isn't that what's his name poet Ginsburg Allen Ginsberg. You. Oh my God it is. Freeman. Alan thought I was doing there. I. Don't think you do have mad. Allen tell them what you said to that reported. The one that asked if you thought that Judas sold out with they're asking you. Said I didn't know perhaps you sold out to God. ME. Well if you've mission was to see whether. You could do great art on the Jukebox. We benefited profited you said by his words and. With it So Let. Now. Now. Let's Let. Oh. My Salvation. See what we can do. Oh, he'll the do. Allen Ginsberg man. Later Allen Ginsberg. My Salvation. Two words rise with the choppy syncopation that could suggest either sincerity or jest. But only dylan gets to say them here. It's an answer embedded in a question divided by four syllables but stretching itself out like the lazy reprise of a song. Maybe hundreds of songs. After Dylan and GINSBURG shake hands goodbye through the window both vehicles still moving the tinkling of kitschy twilight zone music carries out the scene. Some highly like a stone Cherub, Ginsburg veers off the road toward the cemetery of all places saying, well, we'll see what we can do like most of Hanes is film this exchange between Bob Dylan and Allen Ginsberg is a cut and paste dialogue assembled from a Canon of all things dylan that now includes vast treasures and a lot of junk. And a lot of junk gifted as treasures for reflection and speculation. Forty or so studio albums a warehouse of live recordings, some released officially and most not scores of interviews, hundreds of books, and then there are the books that Dylan is written including chronicles volume one. There's never been a volume two as well as a universal theorizing using and chatter about what he sings and says means. I'm not as fun sometimes thrilling job of distilling these vast waters of work in legend into concoction of those six actors playing Dylan that come and go like songs from a pint size smack talking Hobo played by ten year old Marcus Carl Franklin to Richard Gere Who's pinnacle scene takes place accompanied by the ban collects Akot and guest singer Jim James in a gorgeous version of Dylan's go into Acapulco performed in a town called Riddle Minnesota. If the creative concede if I'm not there rests upon a riddle asking what the many faces of Bob Dylan are trying to find. Then the meeting of Student Dylan and teacher Ginsburg. Offers an answer not only to what Dylan's work has been seeking for all these years. But also, what animates rock and roll is a cultural force that it was becoming The answer. My friend is blowing everything up. Yes that's rock and roll. But in the rubble, the fund coupling and decoupling the obsession with sound is the pursuit through music and text and people for the answer to life's purpose through the music. That's the salvation. A CHANGE IS GONNA come stairway to Heaven Two tickets to Paradise Get on your knees boy in all starts and ends in the same place looking for redemption for salvation that only rock and roll can bring you find yourself like being more religious person these that you yourselves religious person these days. Religious person version. Is Supposedly Force reposited. Good. Where can you lookin'? World. And see that religion has been enforced for positive. Good. We're working you look at humanity and say humanity has been uplifted by a connection to godly. Power. Connection Godly power meaning to. Religion. By, golly how're you mean? I can't believe in is I can't look organized. Religion is doing these days and see anything positive as being done local corporation share they chance. It depends what would you talk about? Every again anything of religion you study religion I'm still having at one point you. You, how were serious? You took on Christiane a very serious way. Judaism are very serious way. Where do you? Where are you? Now all that we've been religious religion is is is either something that. Is. Mostly, outward appearance. Faith is a different thing but. Know how. Many religions are there in the world quite a few actually what what is your fate? What do you have faith faith doesn't have a name it doesn't have a category. It's oblique. So it's unspeakable. WE DO GREAT Faith, by talking about religion. Bob Dylan has been wrestling with the question of salvation ever since he was a twenty year old new arrival to New York City singing see that my grave is kept clean in a voice that previewed a cast of musical characters containing multitudes. and. All of them were searching for salvation. In the words of Grill Marcus perhaps the most influential thinker about Dylan, outside of Dylan quote in a signal way, he was the folk. And also a prophet. As, he sang in Rhode. He was the slave on the auction block the whore chain to her bed. A questioning, youth. An old man looking back in sorrow and regret. Dylan search for salvation in his songs as literal mystical playful mundane. Funny. And transcendent. His Revolution. His mission and coercion in the words of Allen Ginsberg is that he brought the pursuit of the ancient. An. Inextinguishable idea of salvation to the Jukebox to the radio, the record collection, the concert hall, and most importantly perhaps to the imagination of a world where traditional religion had lost its ability to do this for millions and millions of people. Dylan has been the singular figure who exploded cultural possibilities for renewed expression of the thoughts, feelings and rituals traditionally harboured by ancient creeds by gathering the pieces of traditional voices, word sensations, and. Around him and replayed them in songs. This made it possible and in some ways. Unavoidable. For All rockers who followed him to join in shaping what meaning popular music could glean. Beyond traditional religion. Just like in I'm not there in this podcast and the book were working on alongside of it. We are listening to Dylan songs as a journey through the life and death riddle of salvation. Were hearing his work is a collection of recipes for redemption. The, repurposing on the purpose of things meditations on the possibility of meaning in a world in which the traditional myth and ritual of religion had come to do more to distance. Than to bring them together. Without Dylan. We imagine that the world and wonder of the ancients would have remained flat to popular culture. But with Dylan. Rock and roll came to expand, exploit, inspire, and rule an empire defined by a whole new code for ancient ideas, religious ideas, communal and individual rituals that would otherwise have died. Agree. Lean. Ain't. Talkin. A. Song from two thousand and six that will accompany much of this conversation. Captures the theme of Salvation and Dylan's role it with sweet precision. I practice a faith that's been long abandoned. Ain't no altars on this long and Lonesome Road Dylan sings. What's the faith? What does it mean that it has been abandoned? What's an alter? What's the road? In a world where Dogma and ritual of the ancients had fallen. Great questions of purpose took root in Dylan's work, and then spread throughout popular music shaping ways of making sense of the world that religion had always owned. But for millions of people who inhabited the rock and roll empire could no longer provide. We're suggesting that by the time of his emergence in the early nineteen sixties, the borders of the rock and roll empire. vast expanse of territory something like the Roman. Empire plus the quote unquote new world had already been forming for centuries of Talt in the battles between various conceptions of religious and secular purpose for humanity. For spare you the sociology of religion course but suffice it to say that after the enlightenment of the eighteenth century what will call secular culture began to develop scientific or sensual rejecting religious dogma. It spawned a world of entertainment outside of rituals commanded by the church or its aristocratic allies. People. Could opt out of religious control by the masses and so much was gained for freedom of expression. And the possibility of self-discovery. Ain't. Talking. Just Walk and Dylan sinks. I practice a faith that's been long abandoned. A No altars on this long and lonesome road. Now in the annals of the Gospels of Dylan. The stories fans till about him. Dylan is often spotted wandering looking for something. One version has in peeking into the window of John Lennon's childhood home. Another finds him searching out the neighborhood where Bruce springsteen lived as a child and includes law enforcement nearly arresting Dylan who did not have proper identification at the time and Like not a few wasted nondescript profiteering stragglers on nondescript streets claim to be none other than Bob Dylan in another tale Dylan steps down from his tour bus on a rainy night the hood of his hooded sweatshirt pulled snugly over his head and ducks into a doorway. A couple passes and Dylan head down supposedly witnessed by one of his disciples holds out his hand for change. Maybe he was reaching out pretending to be a beggar tongue in cheek or hand in Chico for a thousand and one other reasons why any human being goofs around during a long boring trip on a bus. But as he wants sang in going to Acapulco. Now if someone offers me a joke I, just say, no thanks I try to tell it like it is and stay away from pranks. After all. Like it or not. And with endless curiosity and fans and critics to prove it. Whatever Dylan does. People. Take, notice. Chore False, embellished, or made up altogether reaching out for salvation at every single stop on his journey is the essence of Bob Dylan's work. Stories like these would have had to have been told whether he meant them to be told or not. The world needed a dylan figure just when he arrived and made this need abundantly. Clear. If I wasn't Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan one said. I'd probably think that Bob Dylan has a lot of answers myself. Chuck about musicians you know maybe one thousand are we're listening to? Interns what they had to say terms of what they had to save churches, what they're putting forth terms of. The world they're they're they're ball Dan the. You know in terms of In terms of moving he showed us that just because the music was in physical. Did Not mean that it was anti intellect. Division in the town to expand the pop song until to contain the whole world. Invented a new way pop singer could sow. Broke. Through the limitations. Of. What recording artists could achieve any change a face of rock and roll reverend musically, he's not very gifted. You know he's borrowed his voice from old hillbillies. He's got a lot of burrowed things. He's not a great guitar player you know. bended a character to deliver his songs sometimes. They'd care too. You know because you know you can do things with that character you know. It's a mask of sorts. Sometimes, we wish we'd invented that character not. Joni Mitchell. At the death of boxer. Muhammed Ali. One of the few pop culture figures in the sixties to have influenced world consciousness at Dylan's scale Dylan wrote. If. The measure of greatness is to gladden the heart of every human being on the face of the earth. Then he truly was the greatest. If the measure of the greatest is to open up hearts to meeting and purpose in a medium that would dominate the cultural landscape at the peak of its power. Then Dylan who actually owns a boxing club in L. A., and works out there once in a while is right there in the ring with the champ. I bargained for salvation. They gave me a lethal dose Dylan sings in Nineteen, seventy, four shelter from the storm. Are All people in some way bargaining for salvation. And what happens to that negotiation? When old ways of finding salvation have lost currency that had dominated human consciousness. For centuries. This journey towards salvation is Bob Dylan's story and because of his greatness. And Good Fortune to be the right man at the right time. It's our story to. The early twentieth century sociologist of religion Max Weber wrote. Who knows at the end of this tremendous development? Entirely new prophets will arise. War. There will be a great rebirth of old ideas and ideals. In other words with the collapse of the possibility of traditional religion delivering a path to salvation for so many. The need for deep meaning and purpose didn't die. It just took other forms. And Dylan was the key figure in creating the landscape for those new forms. and New Prophets. Take shape. In our next episode, we'll get into how all this rock and roll salvation works. Will start with Bob, Dylan and the agents. And enter a secret rock and roll history of a little number called the Western world. It's quest for redemption. It's aligned runs from POMPEII through Shakespeare and Carl young to the Kennedy assassination and Sergeant Pepper's right up to today. This has been episode one of Bob, Dylan about man and God and Law. For show notes, clips, and other good stuff relating to our podcast. Please visit man God Law Dot Com. I'm Steven Daniel off. See you soon.
Bob Dylan: About Man and God and Law 11: Life or Death? Why Charlie Watts and Bob Dylan Matter
"Villain was he was a revolutionary man. The way that the way that elvis freed your body. Bob freed your mind. This is bob. Dylan about ma'am and god and law charlie. Watts died on august. Twenty four th two thousand and twenty one the rock and roll internet spilt. It's guts in the past decade. We've lived through a lot of the seemingly. Invincible forces of popular music dying prince. Tom petty david bowie. Aretha franklin lou reed. But there was something about. Charlie watts pass and felt a little different was. It spanned an age. Where the who hoped it die before it got old and then lived on in some form or another for more than half a century which is pretty old mick jagger himself had said that he could not imagine himself up on a stage past the age of thirty and now he's pushing a cluster of young and pretty passed on it twenty seven during rocks formative period. Jimmy janice otis jim curtin. Amy followed the same exact path but now it is no longer drugs and plane crashes and rock and roll suicides for the talents who make the mold for mortality in popular music. It's heart trouble. Obesity cancer old body's just walking out like everyone else's one of the great tests of any society is how it relates to mortality. What are its myths of. What happens when we die. How do these myths inform how we live. Think ancestors reincarnation eternal punishments and rewards that suit the saint or the pri-. How do we keep death close enough to provide an animating edge to life close encounters with death like dante's inferno our lives flashing before our eyes after a close call on the road. Roller coasters horror films. Visiting a grave and leaving flowers or small stem the flow of life is adjacent to mortality. And sometimes we ignore it and sometimes we seek out the horror in thrill of getting right up close to that animating since its inception rock and roll is tangled itself up in mortality but now that the generation that made rock and roll an empire has reached the age of truly facing its end during the age of cova nineteen rock and death. Take on new. Meaning charlie. watts is timely. But somehow still shocking passing sharpens this point of truth. Welcome to season two of about man and god and law in season one. we looked at. Bob dylan's vision through ten days. A lot of this thinking listening blended the seeds for book just completed called about man and god and law the spiritual wisdom of bob dylan visit man. God law dot com to find out more season two extends this conversation pooling on threads of things from the book. Speculating about how. Dylan's spiritual wisdom reflects upon what's happening in the world hosting conversations here there with thinkers and doers on what all of this might mean. These episodes are going to be shorter than seizing ones. And they'll become twice a month here in today. We answer the question. Why charlie watts. His death offers us a mirror for generational pop cultural spiritual themes about mortality. Today i will not go down under the ground. Somebody tells me that. That's come in round will not carry myself down to die when i go ahead with be high limit down under the ground because this is why we're here and we will call upon four insightful songs by bob dylan to animate these points the four themes of mortality in the feet of charlie watts blessed memory for dylan esque reflections facing lips so for stopping by and trying to get to heaven before they closed the door with the fight. Flight you ordinary dude and back to the source smart think i can see burst the flight. Someone pulling however poorly. They aged compare their body of work since the eighties. To dylan's or paul simon's or neil young's to see just how much they've arrested on their auras rather than leamy into make music the rolling stones of occupied rock and roll as long as any their touring and recording career spans almost the entirety of the rock and roll era. One of the reasons they have aged pretty badly. Despite the fitness and spunk instilled in mc by his teaching papa is that they are just each year a little older version of the same bad boys of rock and roll. They always were dylan on. The other hand has let himself become an old man just the way one must at a certain point fighting age gets very old. You can want to die before you're thirty. You can want to die in your footsteps but what happens when you survive for another fifty years. A rock band known for rule breaking norm busting at twenty three is about the fight going down fighting or not going down at all. But dillon doesn't fight aging though even as he grows into it he says in nineteen ninety seven's highlands that he would change places with young lovers. Cc's if only he could duma knows cannot turn back the clock. Which is the whole drift of the song in the album that contains. i'm outta mind too so thick mortality that same year. Nineteen ninety seven that that album was released. The stones released bridges to babylon with thoughtful lyrics of twilight years. Like if you really wanna tear up your mind if you really wanna get yourself blind might as well get juiced. The death of rolling stone. Charlie watts affirms firms that no amount of fight or fame can outfight time time waits for no take and it won't wait for him. They all our mistakes of the past history. Let mitt down then. There is flight. Classic rock radio never dies in the stones are all over it much more. So than it's a soundtrack of the hymns of rock and roll heaven half of the most played artists even for someone in their early fifties like me were gone before was even three years old. The opposite of fighting is flighting escape. We say in psychology that wounded people are torn tween fight and flight when it comes to back in the day. Poet robert bly told the tale of iron john. A mythic figure the isan of grimm's tales who's uncultured. Brutishness is the key to teaching and otherwise high flying golden boy to get grounded in the world not to run away from fears of growing up and growing old but rather to plant himself in life. And learn to be a man with grace. And then you have vase down and just remember that. This is not the the the. Yes ma'am that. The angels in heaven life after death the eternal shelter of eternal youth long haired hippies or the glam rocker soaring stone through the ether in order to ignore the grit of life to transcend it. But they too like icarus must fall they too must face iron sean guests at the age of twenty seven or some other time. Gimme shelter is probably one of the top ten rock songs of all time but with all of that or in street fighting all of that gorgeous raunchy rigged merry clayton. Stunning showering bofors tumult hurricane. This stones wanted to hide justice. Shot just kissel. They wanted shelter the harsh light of day. But you can't out run anymore vitus. You can't out hide out. Charm out pout. Out dress or out timelessness. This too is shot system stones for goodness sake forever. Young forever avoiding iron. John outfoxing death or living a heaven on earth. Take us within the most luxurious flight from mortality on their own private plane. Above all else even the most wonderful flight fancy must end then. There's the third way the way of just the ordinary guy. charlie watts. It seems was a guy that everyone could relate to. Yes his wardrobe for a day. Probably cost more than most people's wages for a month. He was a proper british gentleman with exquisite expensive tastes but he was also the one who was married to his sweetheart before satisfaction and stayed them the least rockstar. Looking of the rockstars. This side of leslie west softspoken never missed a gig. until the very end didn't require full blood transfusions in switzerland or on pool or fall out of a tree loved his music. He was considered the creme de la creme of rock drummers precisely because he was not flashy but rather totally reliable and always just a funky hairsbreadth head. The poker faced still waters running deep watching all of that madness from the well of his kit with a whimsical smile. We're all just trying to make it through the week and find whatever gets us through the night. Hold down a job. Pay the rent for kids through college. What else the fight and flight. The signifier of drama. These are pathologies when we cannot name them but what about the ordinary guy punching out the clock life just trying to get to heaven before they closed the door just like we are relatable and always showing up on time even if his own signature beat kept the tie and then having done it all rights. All night is gone which means that we could be gone soon to god. See me seeing of chance. See see of the and news of the fun. See your heart all your women all the code and finally there's back to the sources maybe death is not the end but we'll never know. Fight it or flight. It slowly sink into it. We also wonder or long even what it means to be part of something greater than ourselves to blend back into the oneness and done this. What song is that. I'm reminded of a scene at the end of philip roth. Every man one of his last novels a scene of melting back into the ocean to melt back into the night because everything inside his made of stone. Roth writes net. Atlantic waves from one hundred yards out in the wild ocean all the way in to shore the baton and the smell of the salt water in the scorching sun daylight. He thought penetrating everywhere. Day after summer day of that daylight blazing off of living see an optical treasure so vast and valuable that he could have been peering through the juniors leap in grave with his father's initial at the perfect priceless pallet itself and his home the billion trillion the quad brilliant carrot planet earth. He went under feeling far from felled anything but doomed eager yet again to be fulfilled but nonetheless he never woke up cardiac arrest. He was no more freed from being entering into nowhere without even knowing it just as he feared from the start. I'm all we all know death. We all know that no one gets out of here alive. At the time of this writing we may know death more intimately than at any time since our great grandparents or even earlier. This is the reality of cova. Nineteen a nightmare and a litmus test not a fairy tale if society's can be measured by how they face mortality anti vaccine zante massacres conspiracies. We have learned about a shocking degree of lack of humility. A lack of graciousness lots of fight lots of flight and so many people who are unwilling to take the jab or cover their nose and mouth simply to be a good neighbor to the greater whole not the black hole of damaged. Needy egos and riotous immaturity. When a beloved figure like charlie watts dies one with a particular place in a band that has touched on how we flee fly. Resign ourselves and meld into our own mortality for so very long thoughts of our own purpose. Come to the surface. Tremors have such a strange and wonderful task sitting in the back underneath and behind the music while the drama plays out in his passing. Charlie watts counted off a rhythm of life. We need in order to be grounded. And we're going to have to part with all of our rock and roll heroes soon. What will remain of the muses and short who says they provided when they're gone wac- one of bob dylan's great gifts as we talked about in the grateful dead episode in season one is keeping our hearts and narratives aware of mortality as a means of sharpening the covers and the love of life. So we mourn a drummer we never met. But really we are through this rock and roll. God aligning ourselves with loss. The way gods and angels have always lent a hand for the things impossible to grasp yes to grasp at the raging against the dying of the light and deaths inevitable end but also in knowing that we are all trying to get to heaven before they closed the door and all longing to sink back into the forever home where mothers and muses stay to receive us music. Music reminds us of all of these things maybe even more than our own family sometimes because our music is everywhere wherever we are the music is with us and this is especially true of the stones who have been a kind of forever more than any other band but for the beatles who for their part had already entered the afterlife of bands more than fifty years ago the rolling stones god bless them and then there were four and now there are three and onward. We go your there. Read then huge no in this episode one of season two mana. God law this spiritual wisdom of bob dylan next time. We're celebrating the release number six. Forty two of the bootleg series springtime. In new york. And talking about bootlegging bleed lakers obsessed with these. Now take some live. Cuts was dylan manhandled in hidden so much of his greatest music a creator or pure these questions and more next time in two weeks visit man. God mall dot com waiting. Sure notes more about the book. Please do share all this podcast where euless. We are proud to be part of the pantheon podcast network checkout loads of fantastic podcasts. For music lovers at pantheon. Podcast dot com. I'm steven daniel arnav. Thanks for coming and see you soon. You've got the latest jam. Queued up the sound system cranked. But you're missing that extra element take it all the way to eleven listening to music is only half the journey our senses mingled to create unforgettable moments on the atwood magazine podcast tunes and tumblers. We dive headfirst into that concept by pairing new and classic albums with original craft cocktail recipes. We invite listeners. to bring out their inner mixologist. as we explore the music we love from a unique immersive and thoroughly delicious perspective. My name is anthony. And i host tunes and tumblers alongside my invaluable crew pager your mixologist and ryan your music sewer over the past three years. We've spoken to artists across the spectrum and toasted their music with cocktails. You won't find any bar menu. Rappers open mike eagle and how do the nomad indie pop superstars the aces and tessa violet. Talented multi instrumentalists known bay and tau win of town and the get down. Stay down. have all taken. The hot seat i roster gets bigger and better with each episode and like every good conversation it gets deeper with every round. Join us on this intoxicating journey through the wreckage. We love raising a glass to each wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to drink. Responsibly cheers cheers.
Bob Dylan: About Man and God and Law 04 - Before the Law
"Dillon was he was a revolutionary man the way that the way that Elvis freed your body Bob freed your mind. This is Bob Dylan. About. Man. And God. And Law. Blue. Jim Listen to him some saying to you but your mind is wrong. Make you man but I mean, no harm gist bathroom zone penins farm hard times in the country I don't. You move out on opinions farm plan a little trouble by. Crop corn come around the. Plot to get yourself a mortgage on the everything God is hard times in the country. I Don. Our. No more. I. Wake up in the morning. Hands and praying for rain. Out Ahead love. Driving me insane. James we makes me script. A farm agriculture cultivation and culture culture is the art of cultivating elevating shared expression in the pathways of life. It is the fruit of societies Labor's in order for culture. To produce these fruits, we must set boundaries. Now, there are rules for seating in growing culture culture needs a farm. Now. Down on Maggie's farm man gave names to all the animals. And Prays for rain. And you sing while you slave these. Are the colts of culture making its rituals and routines to control otherwise uncontrolled landscapes so that we can feed ourselves. Law conquers nature to provide sustenance, but it's not all that easy down on the farm. The Bentley Boys New at nineteen twenty seven and Bob Dylan. Knew it in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, five. So far, we've talked about rock 'n roll's twists on salvation, the art of memory, and it's unique mapping of America. But now we get grounded. We're talking about the law, the fences that make good rock and roll neighbors led by our men in the field. Of. Dylan. Meghan. Law. Magazines Ma. S He talks. About, man and God and Law. Robot it says jeeze. Greens. On Law. Sixty, eight. Omaha, what are the rules of Culture we rely upon to make the farm produce? What are the laws in which we entangle so that we can. Produce meaning something life-affirming something lasting. A man from the country. From the highlands from the Iron Range Bob Dylan gets his hands dirty down on the farm. He also gets mixed up with the law, a married man and a divorced man, a white man and a father of voter, an agitator, a Christian do. A record company man. A man of wealth and privilege many masks even Dylan. Who taught in absolutely sweet Marie from Blonde on blonde that to live outside the law, you must be honest even dillon has a date with the law. Going to. Ask. You have to serve somebody. Can may be the devil. In Maine you. Yes you may call him Terry. You may call him timmy you may call him bobby and you may call him Zimmi you may call him Rj you may call him Ray but no matter what you say Bob Dylan, Still GonNa have to serve somebody. How does Bob Dylan? Who once, said, even the birds are chained to the sky how does he understand the burdens and gifts of the law that shape the world? Well. Sharpen your pencils slip that long yellow legal pad out of your briefcase and prepare. For Litigation. You, have a summons. I'm Steven Daniel arnav welcome to episode four of Bob Dylan about man and God and Law. Before. The law. Contrary. To. Some. Maybe. Story you're about to see is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent. In the world of interpretation of sacred text it is said that there is no early or late in the Bible chronology goes out the window and the realm of cannon grappling with the big questions. We see this in the new testament interweaving teachings and teachers of the Gospels into the old, testament. When God says to Abraham Kill me a son. Says Man. You must be putting me on. We also find a roving gambler trying to start a next world war and a thousand telephones that don't ring. In the collected work up a great collector. Its all time out of mind. and. There is no such thing as an anachronism. Episode three the art of memory saw this in both desolation row with Einstein and the Good Samaritan and Noah in a single song and the cover montage of Sergeant Pepper's lonely hearts club band with Marilyn Monroe. WC Fields Carl Young, and the Beatles themselves posed in a single timeless seen together now. In a seamless corpus beyond time, we will juxtaposed and compare songs from different eras to explain a single idea. A single theme. All is fair in looking for love and. The law. ME. There are so many kinds of laws, religious laws covering everything from diet to sex to who gets to talk to God. There's civil law tax law. Criminal. Law and then there's the law of Johnny cash which producer and companion. Rick. Rubin witnessed for himself when cash began to offer him communion actual communion with the wafer and the wine and the reimbursement of the miracle for years of their friendship even after cash's death. Now Johnny cash was a man Dylan truly admired checkout episode five of our friends at the great rock and roll archaeology for their take on this dynamic dual and and hey, we might add that. This is our first episode fully locked and loaded on the Pantheon podcast network with rock and roll archeology, and so many other great music podcasts. Johnny cash takes the law into his own hands. He makes his own communion he makes his own code, the men in black decided he would be a priest. Even, this was not the black that any official church had granted to him, and then by the power vested in him by the state of Johnny cash a priest, he was the fearlessness of a loving hard edged hard ass who can offer the bird to maximum lawman like Johnny cash did in his famous photo from San Quentin prison, and at the same time grant the tender mercies of his own damn communion with a friend. This is a classic typology of an American hero, the morally superior outlaw. And they don't need no stinking badges. It said the Zimny from gotta serve somebody chose the name Dylan based on Matt Dillon from gunsmoke. and. There's always been something of the western outlaw in Dylan and in rock and roll as a whole. Remember Andy Warhol's Silkscreen of Elvis drawing a gun in a shootout. A piece of art that Dylan is said to thrown into the back of his car and later traded for a couch after visit to the factory bad company the Eagles in Bon Jovi sported cowboy kitsch and a whole universe of stars including the late great gram. Parsons had those Goofy Nudie suits. But Johnny cash himself warns us not to make too much of wild west mythology. It was a slow walk in a sad rain and nobody tried to be John Wayne came home text did not and I talked about the hit he gun it's not just rambos and Maga's choke themselves and And and choke others. With the Cowboy Myth. If you were native American woman a person of color and on and on the default position of cowboy culture was violence the morality but lurking in these good bad and ugly outlaws is a statement from Dylan. We've already mentioned creed and they seen one at that. It surely describes Johnny Cash and probably everything that Gregory? Beck has ever been an from Brownsville girl on down and the creed is this to live outside the law you must be honest. To be an outlaw. To, be outside of the law you better have rules. You better have a moral compass and immoral code to draw outside the lines of the law. You'd better be someone we can trust who knows his or her stuff because all you are is your name even if you've made that name up like outlaws from Bob Dylan tip billy the kid. And like John Wesley Harding. You'd better never make a foolish move. On the same eponymous record centered around an outlaw who never made a foolish move. Dylan sings in I am a lonesome Hobo stay free of petty jealousies live by no man's code and don't go seek paradise in that home across the road. See a true outlaw code is completely Sui generous it belongs to no one but beyond. This. no-ball Co. it alone, this also signals a kind of danger. Let's look at a place in dillon with a law breaks down where no one cheer Sokoto. It's a farm gone to seed overgrown undernourished left to its own devices. It's a world chaos. Welcome to scarlet town population. Everyone. And scarlet. down. Added Lee. And similar. This gene. Sad. I came down. Go down. To a call. Scarlet town like real marcus is imagined town of in tropes from his book the Old, Weird America and we liked the invisible republic title much better was the place Todd Haynes manifest for the silver screen his Dylan inspired film I'm not there which we discussed before. The Wild Wild West without a code It's an imagine past and future. Like the people in Florida living in abandoned motels without electricity outside of Disneyland, because of covid nineteen. Yes That future. The circus is in town is seems of civilization are toward cultures of sacred routine and tradition turned to colts of Cunanan. The weeds grow back through the cracks and they grow scarlet. Like blood. Like the letter says like, oh But deep. And Boundless. Italy. Limbaugh. Blue. And Sky Scarlet town didn't come out of nowhere. It's not one of those fake western towns thrown up facade supported by two by four somewhere in the desert that lasts long enough for the days shoot of some Spaghetti Western now. Put a shoulder to the plow to make those farms to build those buildings to cultivate that culture from those laws before it all went to hot. We visited some of those people in the previous episode in context of the original sin of the American epoch. It's a thing. We will hear Dylan Russell with Austin. That's the law may be so corrupt and degrading in any form that from Hetty Carol to Hollis Brown to Brownsville girl to a woman down in Alabama it must be destroyed before it destroys us. and. Scott. Applause He. Needs No. Introduction. Bob, deb. From the back of it Bush. Met Your efforts. Thing. Trigger. that. Is. Out in the dark. Bar Do. I. I. On. Day. One town sounds a lot like scarlet town before the fall. And everyone black and white is working on Maggie's farm. It's a system hung on that cross that Dylan said Agricultural Mercantile America was crucified upon from the start. Slavery forced Labour is systemic power. Thriving from the poverty pitting weight against black there's no corporate America without it and maybe no constitution either there's no Jim Crow or George Floyd without it. But you also don't get the voting rights act or Mlk or Angela Davis either. Law, American, civil and economic law brings out the best and the worst but I and much more. It brings out the worst and it's negative formative impact on all national systems can be suffocating. Only, a pawn in their game anticipates mega the poor white man manipulated to hate people of color so that he himself can be oppressed by the fabulous vile waxen lawmaker, which is twenty, twenty. Americas stock in trade. So, who are the lawmakers that rule pond town whose farm churn systemic oppression based on controlled scarcity and the Cudgel of race. Good Morning Miss. Here's what kind of mood the end today Marie liked by. But he criticized my dad's. Well, we'd better be heads up today. A little Mr Elton seems to have rubbed off on everyone. His personality can be felt in many ways even in the attitude of the secretary. Lament it appears have learned that the affairs of the day depend to a large degree on Mr emotional condition of the moment. And that it pays to get a reading before the conference begins. Morning Gentlemen. House the coffee I was just thinking how good it was. Excellent. Was Eight. So. I. Don't. Say. Serve head. This madman by tallus vitality, the overlord leaving it to beaver in a gray pinstripe suit this. Cunanan, leaning the quacking McConnell this smoke signaling dog whistling smokey boardroom overboard and over board overlord pushing left and right to extremes from the middle of the road up only with himself only with the Joneses this Mr Jones. That older but younger Bob Dylan called out in only a pawn in their game he is the maker of the law. He is the Guardian. Of, the law. We've met the enemy Dylan says and they are ours. We've met the enemy Dylan says? And they look like someone we know. Seeing one's adversary is seemingly the most civil societies, movers and shakers damned by his own ignorance and fear and confusion as he governs everyone else with utmost cruelty really does make one feel alone. It. Really could drive one to blame and division. Is that. Facing the shiny white teeth of the law and his pointing finger songs. And his most cutting tour often booed and cursed stage an early iteration of the sex pistols or the cramps on tour with A. Band called the Band San's leave on helm and sixty five and sixty six from which the Maelstrom version of Ballad of a thin man we've heard was taken. All of this confrontation did something to Dylan. Hold him in were. Well the struggle with the law as a real cultural social political communal animus would never dissipate from his work really, and it has at times comes lowering back like in murder most foul from rough and rowdy ways. Turning his gaze to the intimate grammar of his own personal. Code. As a much humbled outlaw rather than confronting the law of the world drive. So much of Dylan's work going forward. After seeing. And calling out Mr Jones. For who and what he is. All along the watchtower. After, Mr Jones seems to always get the upper hand maybe life is but a joke. That's how it looks to. Joker. Man. Ran. Food. Task. To the Wildcard, the lonesome Hobo, he's toothpaste. And, he doesn't like what he sees inside of himself. He only makes foolish moves despite with John Wesley. Harding had worn also knows that he knows that he comes from what he comes to. From what he knows of the law. The book of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. The law of the jungle in the sea are your only teachers joker man says to himself. Leviticus the book of the Hebrew Bible most aligned with the priestly colts of ancient. Israel. The logbook and manual for the operation of the temple and all of it sacrifices and rituals. The book of Deuteronomy, which means the repeating a kind of reprieve of all of the preceding four books of the Hebrew Bible in condensed form. The law of the jungle which we hear as a world without law. A world of pure nature, no farms. So farmers just wild and chock full of danger where no joker man should ever really be. And of course, the C-. Ask any poet or Herman Melville about the wisdom that makes humanity seemed like less than a grain of sand when learning the ways of the sea. Dylan addresses himself joker man third person is if he himself is a stranger, a visitor to his own life what a joke. He learned the ancient laws and wound up here. Laughing at himself or as Tony Mitchell won-sang saying laughing and crying you know it's the same release and this is the painful dichotomy which brings us to a crossroads for Dylan and the law. He's learned societies rules and call them out as a young man he's tried to run wild and free as well. Child of the fifties trying out many masters, voice of frustration and irony takes us back to a voice that predates Dylan's by generation but carries the very same bundle of conflicts. A self that feels chosen for something unique and profound with respect for tradition, and the law who searched reveals that life is but a joke. He is everywhere and nowhere all at once. Just like Tom Thumb's blues. Just. Like. Franz Kafka's blues. Before the law. Stanza God. A man comes from the country. Begging admittance to the law. But the God cannot admit him. Can he hope to enter at a later time? That is possible. Says the God the man tries to through the entrance he'd been taught that the law should be accessible to. Do not attempt to anti without my permission says the God. I am very powerful. Yet, I'm the least of all the gods from hall to hall door after door. Each God is more powerful than the last. By God's permission, the man sits down by the side of the door he waits. For years. He waits. Everything, he has. He gives away in the hope of bribing the God. Never fails to say to him I take what you give me only so that you will not feel that you have left something undone. Keeping his walk during the long years manage is learn to know even the fleas and the gods for color. And growing childish you know, H. He begs the village fleas to persuade the God to change his mind and allow him to enter his site is dimmed. But in the darkness, he perceives a radiance streaming immortal mortally from the door of the law. Now before he dies. Always. Experienced condenses into one question a question is never asked he beckons to guard says the God, your insatiable what is it now? Says, the man every man strives to attain the law. How is it then? But in all these years, no one else's ever come here seeking admittance. His hearing has failed. So the God yells into his ear. No one else but you could ever have obtained admittance. No one else could enter this door. This door. was intended. Only for you. Now I'm going to close it. Franz Kafka's before the law is read here by Orson. Welles from his nineteen, sixty, two adaptation of the trial, the full narrative within which before the law appears. At the age of twenty five. Exactly the age of Dylan in his most fertile period of creativity and icon busting well, saw right through his own Mr Jones that was Mr Hurst. Come citizen Kane. The great bearer of the law is nothing more than a scared child who's lost his Rosebud. The man from the country. Kafka's tale the German turn on Mangam land. Maybe a play on the Hebrew term Haaretz which means not just one from the country. But also one without knowledge an ignorant person. Kind of Redneck. This man. This man is reduced to becoming sniffling child before the law like Cain. Remembering is Rosebud or Mr Jones at a total loss he walks into the room where there oughta be a law against him coming. If only Kafka's man from the country at bucked up and followed his instincts. A Little Law of the jungle perhaps, he could have broken through to his Nirvana. But. He had no instincts not an ounce of jungle or see. So. He waited in line like the good citizen. The Citizen Kane owns the line and the guard and the gate and the law. But waiting for the law to do the right thing and take care of them like like Rosebud would. The guard has no interest in this funny business is the man entropy and dies knowing nothing seeing nothing being nothing. He can't take care of himself before the law and no one takes care of him. So he just disappears. Only pawn in their game. World. Kiss, you. Only to. The. People in his lost. Anybody pitches. You. Why Now That's what Leonard Cohen was said to avast. Jennifer warnes in disbelief when he heard that Jewish Board Dylan had entered submerged himself into Evangelical Christianity. It's one of the great conundrums of rock and roll. How Dylan? Bob. Dylan the agitating law busting icon a classic fire-breathing Prophet became the. Agitating Law Busting Iconoclastic fire-breathing Prophet Oh! Maybe, it's not such a mystery. That musician steeped in the music and myth of the church longing to witness in America died on a cross. And a man from the country himself would be drawn to try on the law. In. All of its power and glory. To do. This don't come back. Dunes. Fooled. I believe in you is just one of the scores of gorgeous songs, Dylan released during his so called born again, Christian phase we'd be hard pressed to find a precise beginning and end for the influence of Christian theology belief or longing on Dylan's work. It's in there because it's in American music. So intricately everywhere, but there is a period three, maybe four albums depending on how you count. We're Dylan's Christian. Passion is particularly ferocious. It's also tender it's it's Eric and it's humble layers and waves and the law is everywhere. There's only one as Dylan sings you've either got faith or you've got belief there ain't no neutral ground. Drawn to Christ in the mid Seventies. A friend of Jimmy Carter. The president, the most powerful man in the world a true believer also who shared with Playboy magazine what he thought about when he stood naked. Because even the president of the United, states must stand naked and lusted in his heart and got screwed because of it Dylan. A Yankee in rock and roll sheep's clothing in the Court of Public Opinion Dylan brings together power. The struggles of the internal and external seekers life and ironic resignation the resignation of a Contemporary Kafka into one of the songs in his cannon that seems to cover almost everything everything that the law could want to cover while completely upending it as well. Same Bill. Then yet tell me way ahead. Lincoln County Ru Magadan. Seem Lacob down this way. If. Is there any truth in an Samuel? Senior. Senior. She's I. I'll. Keep five as. To. The. Be. A comfort that CEO. Kafka's man from the country gets both a kick in the ASS and a pat on the back insane your. Senior. The Spanish term for Jesus, the Savior who Dylan is addressing directly. But also the rebel Jesus is in iconoclastic. Jesus takes no quarter and no gold coin when it comes to corruption in the Law Dylan asks him from Lincoln County Road were that old outlaw billy the kid made his beans to Armageddon. Is that all there is senior. This song is layered with allusions awash in color. And, it unfolds within a melody for the ages. God. Honest. Rock of ages, and then the final verse blows up the law. I comes total Alien Nation Dylan is a rolling stone and outlawed you then settles down cultivates a far mix a world. All the wires connecting him with that world. Static, stasis. In some ways living with the law comes down to a dialectical choice. Resignation or elimination should I stay or should I go but then? On the third hand. Is Revolution. Even, though he knows the option to blow it all up is for the taking. He asked Senor in the final. I. For permission to go all the way, he wants not just a fellow traveller. But an authority to bless his resolution of revolution and this question to your rather. This request is unanswered. Hey what would signore do? What would Bob Dylan do? What would Jesus do? The question sounds like the beginning of an answer, but it's not all there. It starts with overturning those tables cutting those cables starting over. Somehow lawless perhaps in a revolution, but it's not televised and signor doesn't answer. Okay I JUST GET UP MYSELF UP Ready when you say See. Table. This place. Used to care but things have changed. Those cables from seeing your actually can't. anyways custom cables and cut the music cut yourself off. But still the mind drips there another way to live outside the law and still be honest. A stadium. When Come up to the. Emmett they. Stays down but it's To eliminate. Wasn't blinking. To think. A Lagging a dream. The To feed. Hearing. Dylan Challenge Authority and also embrace it drives them to to spirit drives them away. It drives him crazy but it also pulls him back in. He loves the farm he hates the farm and there is the resignation that standing in line before the law waiting for your number to come up that's life. So you may as well play one hundred year and make a ton of art while you can. Beyond love and life connection in law and the resignation that God is in his heaven and we all want what's his but power ingred. Incorruptible seed seemed to be all that is there's another outlet that comes up shining in Dylan's world in an. Eyewitness. Alabama, running and in another. Let's see. Was? Class. Time. We said that use it just leaves. It makes it worth for July to go down into the parlor, resign himself to life and relive these three. Liked to extend that ideal further. Beyond the law beyond love even beyond music. There are those dreams. There are the dreams themselves, which provide bulk, the escape, and the purpose of life. One can function in the world played doom even dabble in fully embodying oneself. But there is also a place. A place of dreams disembodiment were the sole lives unencumbered. Schemes and connections, inspections and directions a disembodied Dylan Dylan Adrift but seemingly. Content This. Jeff to all that standing before the law and waiting at the gate and pushing open the kings and getting behind the law and finding out what came before the law. There's a place seems. Very much? Like a series of dreams. Next time on Bob Dylan about man and God, and law we'll be talking the language of Love Romance. Rangel just like a woman love sick all of that and more you. Will. Check out all of our episode Pantheon podcasts Dot. COM, and friends. If you want more of what he heard here stopped by man dot law dot com for sure. Som- lists writing and. Times. When I'm Steven. Daniel Art. Thanks so much for coming. Soon. Everybody I'm Mike. And I'm Jesse, I'm Erin. Altogether. We are the punk tree. On, the show we're going to share music that we love. WE'RE GONNA discuss how punk rock has evolved in different sub genres have developed. We're GONNA, talk to bands that have been influential in shaping the music industry in our lives. Sometimes challenge each other to dig into bands and sub genres that we may not be into on our own. We're a proud partner of the Pantheon podcast network and you can find us across all platforms on social media at the punk tree. We have a really great time talking about music in life with each other. So please join us. Bad. Hi. My Name is Mike Shoe and along with Lukin Russ Khandan from the band town meeting, we host the long. May you young podcast on the Pantheon podcast network? This is our Neil Young. Where we mostly talk. While going through A. Mystery My. conned in boys, Trans and RBIS. Through On. We're pretty sure it's the only podcast that covers neil young's musical catalog album by album in order of release. Why are we doing this? Because we have a neil problem of. We've got the in depth analysis, the historical context, the bad movie references they're all there. But Long May you young podcast? CHECK US out soon because it won't be long before the Pantheon folks figuring out we don't know what the Hell we're doing.
Bob Dylan: About Man and God and Law 05: Love
"WHO's in their vote amount? Of Water election days. Bound. Biggest Swain here from deeper digs and rocker archaeology John are you registered to vote. I know I am. Headcount is a nonpartisan organization that works with the music and entertainment industry to get fans to vote. Top date or check your voter registration status go to headcount dot org or you'll find all the information you need to be ready for election day? At headcount dot org you can also check your registration status because I don't know if you know this, but millions of people get purged from the voter rolls every year. Everyone should check their registration status every year. The deadline to register to vote in some states is as early as October fourth. So you want to check before that. You can also request an absentee ballot, get INFO on early voting finder polling place and see what's on your ballot. Headcount is a nonpartisan nonprofit that tours with musicians to help concert attendees registered to vote. But you don't need to leave your house to register to get voting impo just head to head Count Dot Org. And I'll see you at the polls. Ya. Bring from new. Star. Villain was a revolutionary man of the way that the way that Elvis freed your body Bob feed your mind. This is Bob. Dylan. About, Ma'am and God, and all. This sir. Bend. Baby Owner A. Spoke lie most three from slavery. With is the showed no trace of misery. Phrase. That she? Love is just to. Letter. which four letter word is love. Is it the F. Word. Or H. O. P. Maybe L. I f. e.. Or could it be h o m e? Robert Johnson says the four letters of love and. A An but love could be yo you are or maybe M. I n. e. or T are you? Could be lost, could be hours the hippie spoke of our E. Love though we don't buy it. A George Jones and Tammy Wynette they spelled love so that their six year old little boy didn't catch on but that was seven letters. D. I v O R C E. Mile. Will by a? Double. People. The admiration. tried. Finding in you know there are a whole lot of love letters, l O v e a whole lot of more love letters than we can count. Bob Dylan. If you received his letter, yesterday transmits very many kinds of traditions. But maybe the most direct line of his creative ancestry, the musical trade and cultural role that spawned him. Is that of the troubadour. The troubadour not the famous La Club though Elton John James Taylor and Joni Mitchell and warns Yvonne and a and a WHO's who of contemporary artists made it the singer Songwriters Royal Court seventies rock and roll. Love. No. We're talking about the troubadour the love drunk singer of southern Europe in the Middle Ages invited by nobles to sing for them about love. Dante and we mentioned a book of poems by an Italian poet from the thirteenth century a lot here because. Dante is such an essential touch point of western artistry. Dante. Described the troubadours music as being. Fifty, all retore Mussa. Choir Boito. Rhetorical musical. Poetic Fiction. And like the troubadours in other words to open up with an Italian poet from his mother's side from the Twentieth Century Bruce Springsteen said quote. Bob Dylan prove that a pop song could tain the whole world. Rhetorical. Musical. Poetic Fiction. The troubadour tradition provides the basis for ballots art songs for the Song Forms. That are the essential building blocks of folk music and the blueprint for the soul and rock songs of a thousand years. Later, these thanks to the troubadours are the beginnings of the musical vessel that Dylan will bend to his will. And while Dante says that the troubadours covering click array of topics about the world roots of the troubadour and the troubadours repertoire just like the repertoire of Pop, music is the singer singing a song about love. The troubadours and there were men and women troubadours even though the most common figures in our cultural memory are men they sang insults like idiot wind longings like just like a woman break up songs like innate me babe and praised like love minus zero. No limit. They courted like Lay lady lay sank to a lover pleading that she would please crawl out her window they mourned. They complained they strategy the charmed. In more than all Al. Stay Sang. Love songs with every four letter word in the book. And episode five Bob Dylan About Man and God and Law we're going to be listening to the music of Bob Dylan. Descendant of the troubadour tradition as it embodies the last few centuries worth of our obsession with love. Romantic love. Our escape and transcendence. Are Distraction definition of purpose. H-. Impossible. Perfecting. Ever waited for romantic. Love. As a great poet once asked. What's love got to do with it well, loves got to do with all of it. Not just. Dylan's music and what drives the rock and roll empire but the truths and illusions that shape our world. You know those troubadours despite thriving in the same bastions of Christian culture that ferment the relentless violence of the Crusades they played on the fringes of the dominant themes of religion. While their love interests were inspired by a woman, the ideal rocking from the New Testament to let it be to Madonna. You've heard of mother Mary of course, and you'll be hearing a lot about and from her in the songs to come. The troubadours lived outside the law to recall episode four by being honest. About love. And to recall episode one. Their spiritual code depended on finding salvation through love. Our dependence on romantic love today may have more bells and whistles than that of the troubadours a thousand years ago. But our core is the same as there's. Maybe love is just a four letter word but. Once you really spell it out. It does contain multitudes. We're talking about love and only love that can't be denied. We're talking about finding someone who gives you all the love. And I'm sick of love. But Not really. We made up our minds to. Give this team to you. I'm Steven Daniel. Arnav. Welcome to episode five of Bob, Dylan about men and God in Law Love. Low. Exciting and Donald. We're expecting daily. Life sweetest reward. Floats back. Whether. We come aboard or stay ashore. There is a thing about love that describes the essence of being. In fact, the great teachers across time sound a lot like the great. Julie McCoy Shuffle all the boarding on the promenade deck. Love, is born into every human being Plato says in the symposium, it calls back the halves of our original nature together, it tries to make one out of to heal the wound of human nature. Each of us then Plato says is a matching half of a human whole in each of us is always seeking the half that matches us. Plato. Spells out love and sodas. Buddha, who says love is a gift of one's innermost soul to another so both can be whole. So. Let it be said here that while we do not know for true if Bob Dylan would say it we ourselves reject Hetero normative narrative that would say that love's got to do only with man woman woman men love love can be an lgbtq letter were to of course it can and the we'll try to offer something more nuance than exclusively male Gaze Bob? Dylan is a man. So are we that's our story but we'll. Try not to stick to it. At any rate. For that other, half the better half of the worser one could run a person aground. The book of Genesis Describes Eve as being carved out of Adam's rib and to Madrid and Interpretive Rabbinic legend from about eighteen hundred years ago modifies this creation myth by claiming that Adam and Eve were actually are hermaphroditic I a single being, which was actually to two faces. Two sets. Of Genitals. To bodies joined at the back and forever facing opposite directions even after they were cut in half to go off and find each other again. Bob Dylan seems to agree. Girl before she could leave say let's go play adamantly. The hand in the hottest something said, hey, man you crazy. is in. Heaven last time they started. So, we begin with the seeking. The love boat may be leaking. and. Something about a divine mix of color and tumult like the ocean blue that curious us on a journey toward a destiny we call love and in the hint of blue. And the hint of the blues. Perhaps maybe. Maybe must be. Something of the divine. Bob Dylan says he saw this mystery with his own two eyes once through the blue eyes of the USS Crooner. Captain of love and we're not talking about captain stooping no. Dylan hung out with Frank Sinatra one evening over at Frank's place. Apparently, bruce springsteen was there as well. A dinner party at the revered captain's table and at one point in the evening Sinatra took Dylan aside. He was funny Dylan says describing the encounter we were standing out on his patio at night and he said to me you pal we got blue eyes we're from up there and he pointed to the stars. These other bombs are from down here said Frank Remember, you might be right Dylan said. So the love boat has a lot of. Truth in it, actually putting one's faith in a singular vessel dropped into the stormy waters of life that reflects the heavens and the eternal to take a lover all the way to the redemption of love which seems to be our favorite myth of all of the myths that we live by. Come A. Oh. Go Willy. Say. But if You. GotTa. View. Oh we. The way. It does not insist on its own way says Jesus of love and First Corinthians it is not irritable or resentful. It does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things believes all things hopes all things endures all things. Love Never. Ends. In, other words as teachers across seemingly every great tradition teach love gently insistently and Oh. So innocently demands that we go. All the way. When somebody loves? It's no good on less. Rock and roll culture a rock and roll empire. We do put a whole lot of faith all of it in fact, into a whole lot of love and could there be a more precise symbol of the muscular patriarchal loved drunk and as we will hear just plain drunk. America of Dylan's coming of age years than the Chairman of the board. Old Blue Eyes, frank, Sinatra himself who taught so many about love. Bob Dylan went out of his way to salute Frank Sinatra Mr Frank Zenia th birthday party. This was years before Dylan would spend the equivalent of five full albums shadows in the night fallen angels. Maybe that's how the blue is made it down here actually and triplicate singing only songs of love Frank Sinatra had made famous. And at that star studded event, he chose to Fete Sinatra with long restless farewell. If Frank was seen it, he might have called one for the road. Seeing as we're getting near the end of our show, I can think of no one I'd rather share a parting glass. More than the clancy brothers Oh. On that hand I and is. Eating come any. no harm that I have already made lousy it all to none me. On In done. Da. Till Man. Marina. COM till. They all. So To me the parting last. Cohort. On And we. Long. Anna tabor's. On A. Says, it's closed Love and Booze, love and theft lover take all. Now, we'll take Dylan's advice and bid farewell to Blue Eyes yes. Sinatra Shirley has taught a few generations about love the secular deified culturally enshrined but identity boxed in love and few musical acts have had an alter worshiped less critically than Sinatra's. But his romantic vision takes us only part of the way not nearly all the way we have many other ports to visit to make sense of these fallen angels and these bums. Got The time. Since, hoppy. A Alvian Beginning in one, thousand, nine, hundred, twenty, three, Sigmund, Freud loves die sector corresponded with Romain Rolland a French novelist challenging that Freud's writings on the life of the spirit had missed the point completely about what life is about. A WOMAN And she made. And she. means. Active. Long told Freud that the ocean feeling. Oh, that magic feeling like the fetal said it's the OC anik feeling that matters most. Range to reach that magic feeling. Nowhere to go. This super is the high point of human endeavor. Reading with admiration if not full recognition of Rowland's idea of oceanic feeling and civilization and its discontents Freud reveals much about himself and intellectual path. CanNot discover this oceanic helium myself said Freud. Its not easy to deal scientifically. That's right. This. Is The territory of music and muses and amusement. Not. A certain kind of science. She. Ocean. That feeling. This is perhaps the destination of Gillies Journey. Question isn't it? How does it feel? About in WHO's how do we get to that? Feeling. A. Just like a woman complicated notes, the male gaze with very again shift but kind. Of broken little. Girl. Standing inside the rain. You actually stand inside the rain. Aren't you supposed to stand outside in the rain or to get inside to get out of the rain? The singer must be on the very inside of the rain itself part of it within that ocean. And with nowhere to go. And doesn't want to know. If, he can ever stop the rain shoe. Clear. He found that feeling but the feeling that Oshii anik rain-soaked insiders feeling is part of a longtime curse. Four letter word. Call A P A. Just like. Jewish. Brick. He says she would always say. From the long time curse of Plato and the book of Genesis and Buddha in which a human being is forever split and seeking its other half. Just like a woman. Sung by a woman and turned ever. So slightly to be about an I rather than she is a love song of. Proportions. Don't call just like a woman call it just like a human. And this human gaze girds both Dylan's vision of love and reveals a secret history of romantic love that the Sinatra version of love is a reflection of beauty through a Martini. Glass is incomplete better. The broken glass reflecting to dylan the sermon on the Mount as he sings and shelter from the storm. A secret history of our romantic obsession. Somewhat We'll give you all. Straight. To God you know. But at this moment, people are talking about ecstasy transcendence meaning wholeness. You know things that we used to look for in the realm of the divine that have now been transcended into romantic. All the way. Heard here in a recent interview on the tax radio, our state parole says that in love we are seeking wholeness an oceanic return to one this Buddha and Jesus and Plato in the Hebrew Bible say that once was the purpose of any religious communal spiritual ecosystem. To understand love as the story of only two people or a fairy tale of falling in love and living happily ever after. At best of fairy tale, it misses the love boat altogether. Love is all but it's not just about love. It's about the purpose of all things. Counting on romantic love alone to deliver at the port of call is a very, very tall order after food water and shelter. Abraham maslow's might say people need love love which means purpose and meaning which means something of the divine that's lost by being human in the first place. Is Me. Take me you dead. Fish A. Slave. I like to slam nine drink knees. There are so many ways to seek love to express it to feel it. Of course it's not all touchy feely and Holier Thou. So. So grabby hungry and grubby needed to love and grit love and theft love and hunger love a need sex and love. But Bob Dylan's creed that love and only love can't be denied no matter what you think about it you just won't be able to do without it comes with a warning. Plaque rider black rider hold it right there. The size of your cock will get you nowhere. So it's not just spirit and it's not just sex and sometimes oftentimes just not. My experience was limited and underfed. The love sings in love is just a four letter word. Searching, for my double looking for complete evaporation to the core, it continues though I tried and failed at finding any door. I must have thought that there was nothing more. Dead this guy. In the two babies. Don't. You came up. Soluble Always close. Off. Of you won't June July. Do Good High. Find. Love and only love is denied that same hunger. Out. That's the place where an equally powerful idiot wind of discuss can blow. Saying. I can't even touch the books you read. or every time I crawled pasture door I'd be wishing I was somebody else instead. The anger, the fury of loss the emptiness that comes with its loss the loss of love. These are love letters spelling out loves well. Now. Dylan's love life. Life is personal life. These are his and his alone. This cannot be denied and we're not interested in prying in the least. But Sarah. His invitation into a glimpse of the oceanic feeling of love in a moment of his life. In an intimate scene on the beach on the shore well, in it Dylan captures one of the most heartbreaking and beautiful images of the five letter word F.? A.. M. I. L. Y.. That love spawns. We're all little boys and all little girls come from. And how love give And how love take away Stay. Jabal. Other Asked about blood on the tracks often called his divorce album from the same fertile mid seventies period that produced desire on which Sarah Appears Dylan said a lot of people tell me they enjoy that album. It's hard for me to relate to that I mean people enjoying that type of pain. Anna foot guilty as charged. We are drawn to the pain. Just like were drawn to drown some days inside the rain. A Superior. Des. Soon. Image of the woman. Dylan's lovers love the ones. He builds a family with or the ones who pass under his gaze the wants to stay and the ones who leave who are. SPEAKS LAG SILENT Deals. that. I so Love minus zero no limit a formula is off and it's quite literally a formula. Love that wins zero is subtracted. No limit a love she's a woman. Who has no limit she is in fact, a being who erases all dialectics, all boundaries, all visions, all opposites melt into a singular whole. Speaks. Silence doesn't have to say she's. True Like ice like fire. No success like failure and failures no success at all. No. Future. Be. Malian. Failures. And in the end in the file verse of this Song That Love and that lover. Is. edis. Window with a broken win. She can't fly scape and she probably can't come in because what Raven can live inside the Chelsea hotel. This woman is Madonna anything and everything beyond measure and category is her. I don't know you know a goddess and yes, I, do think. I am. All of those things. Not You the ideal. Mary Madonna. Every woman offers an impossible erasure of all of the separateness that all of the great traditions we have cited propose as the impossible conundrum of human existence. We are separated at birth from ourselves and from our others. And we seek those others out and that seeking at least fifty percent of the time leads to the same place for Tammy. George. Wound up the D.. Word. The seven letter word It's broken wing. Not. Even the perfect flying bird can carry the weight of the world divided down the middle. and. This is where another kind of love comes in. When we've already explored a bit in episode four before the law and will explore again in a future episode called God. We're talking about love of God, is another formula. Or maybe the formula flawed as it may be for a kind of lasting love or ever lasting love. It's a love of releasing oneself to love without dialectic without division into without even body for loving. From the oceanic feeling to the family on the beach love of a lover can bring children and as Dylan's lowered protect, my child makes clear. This is a selfless soulful love but this selfless seamless of. Seems to require a third party. Or the only party in town. And that's the divine. The Lord Lord protect my child. Oceanic feeling. Playing on the beach and then together alone again or to quote the Great Band of the Four Letter Word L. O. V. E. Alone. Together alone again. With the one. Grain of sand infant? At one. With all those other grains of sand and no longer alone. At, all it's the ultimate shot of love. Confession. In the. When the two. Long. There's Only. Dawn. Days. By gain. Non. In the Oh I can see. Astor's. Can we really be the beach itself a bunch of grains of sand, any more than we can be inside the rain? We seek love like the energies of an atom seeking positive or negative charges. It's a scientific fact Freud notwithstanding and it's exhausting. And said, he was sick of love because the love game seems to have no end. But Dylan's not really sick of love. Is He? No. We know that he's just licking his wounds, right? He Dost protest too much and in the end, he makes the choice to be open to pain, which is the reality of the journey and he chooses like Augustine back in episode two that he will love. Opposite Lama. Last year. Listen to the sounds of. The Grades and incalculable grace of love which says with Augustine. I want you to be. Without being able to give any particular reason for such supreme and unsurpassable affirmation. So said Henna Rent added made my mom? Myself. Love is an act of faith. And again. Like the troubadours of old seeking and declaring one's love is not just a way of life. It is life it is identity. It is purpose finding that wholeness broken wing at the window, and all is all that there is and it's a human choice to try to be divine. To love like the divide. After so imperfectly. Now the impossible miracle of love is as impossible as Adam and Eve hacked apart to create to have seeking each other. Or Mary serving fourth the Virgin, birth, if you take those love stories to literally you're likely to believe anything. The definition of a fundamentalist these days is something like this one who rejects. But the logic and person hood of all others maybe a fundamentalist in love is one who expects all things to live within a single lover that love minus zero no limit adds up to success or failure. Or anything at all love is it seems about two things. I it is fundamental because it's a foundation, a place to be a shelter a home for the soul. And second, it's a glimpsing of the possibility of perfection. When God in her were born In the lifetime. Of. Tall and A. Lack. Of, that you the road was Fulham learn do I came in from? A creature void of for. Come in she said, I'll give you. Shelter from the stone, we know that Dylan has more than dabbled in the ancient texts of religious traditions and this idea of the shelter and the storm as a template for loves bloom suits and interpretation a mirage, not only of his own canon but also of deep streams of thinking about love and purpose unwinding for thousands of years all the spiritual map. In Hebrew. A language based on three letter roots that build a web of words with similar meanings. Shelter comes from the root for Michigan. Shin. noon. Those are the three letters. Michigan Means Tabernacle as in the precursor to the temple that structure that the ancient Israelites built in the desert and traveled with them which in the divine. And this word Michigan or tabernacle relates to Shuna. Or the word for neighborhood community, the closeness derived from proximity. And this word this word from the same root as the others. Relates to China. Now, we're going to fiddle about with Dylan and mysticism at a later date and we'll try to keep it universal. This is not a Hebrew lesson. It is also not definitively not a pitch for the quote unquote Jewish element of Dylan's story great works and great artists require all kinds of methodologies to be appreciated the simply want him. But to circle back before we fade away this route Mishcon Shuna it's also the route that gives us Sheena. But the Jewish mystical tradition calls the female aspect of the divine. You can call it Mary Madonna. If you like you scholars of religion are invited to do with it what you will and you might just call Nina Simone's reading of just like a woman a. Reading the companion song to the first break up. With Eve. It's the other half of that same love story. There are core energies in the world, an energy that a secrecy just as that energy is seeking the seeker. And the storm of shelter from the storm is like those elements of the Atom Yudo. Or the Adam. The first being. Without shelter. Without a vessel. To navigate the storm. In mystical terms, the God head is divided just like we are and it's so called female aspect. The SHEENA seeks so-called male aspect to create wholeness again. This is not a binary story it's a metaphor. But it's an attempt to map us all. If only I could turn back the clock to when God and her were born Dylan sings. If only my Michigan my shelter could house me with my not the ultimate loving lover. That would be when time itself both stopped and began but Dylan sings this aphorism as an if only phrase knows that we can't quite access the clock of love that's not human time that clock belongs to the divine and yet overtime. Lyric layered upon lyric and without the Hubris to assume success or failure in hearing what we hear this is the voice of the moment when God and her were born repeated over and over again in love and it's the voice of love. It contains everything even if it's defined by a broken wing. Because just like us. Without that broken. Love couldn't be at all. So. Like it or not. Love it or not. The clock ticks out time. And then the captain says, Hey, kids, it's time. Again, comes that. Feeling again time to try to love. Again. Come aboard. Again. We're expecting you. Next episode we are going back to school that's right. Talking teachers. who were Bob Dylan's teachers and what did he study? How do teachers the next episode of Bob Dylan about men and God and Law. We're proud to be part of the Pantheon podcast network find us and a whole bunch of wonderful music podcasts at Pantheon PODCAST DOT com. He'd get show notes, playlists and clips for this podcast at Man Dot, Law Dot Com. He's do subscribe and follow in radar show wherever you listen. It really helps this project grow and we appreciate it so much. I'm Steven Daniel arm. Thanks for coming and seed Rousse. Laugh. I'm in love with. Snap out of it. Again.
Bob Dylan: About Man and God and Law 06: Teachers
"Pain and beauty rebellion and unity nose and harmony celebrate the history of music with the rock and roll hall of fame twenty twenty inductions honoring depeche mode. The doobie brothers. Whitney houston nine inch nails. The notorious b. I g and t rex streaming november seventh on. Hbo max head. Over to pantheon podcasts. Dot com backslash. Survey dil out a few quick questions and be entered to win one of thirty limited edition. Hbo rock and roll hall of fame. Induction ceremony posters or one of thirty doobie. Brothers live from the beacon theater. Blu ray sets and tune in on november seven to be a witness to history the rock and roll hall of fame november seventh only on. Hbo max dillon was a revolutionary man of the way that the way that elvis free your body bob freed your mind. This is bob dylan about man and god and law blue. How do we keep balance. They can tell you in one word. Tradition is the vessel that holds past present and future compelling time forward but also anchoring it in what came before the great culture makers and artists. No tradition like the backs of their own hands in episode to the art of memory. We learned how bob dylan mastered the memorial art of past president. Future by setting down roots in greece. And how in. This context learning storing and teaching. Tradition is really all the same thing. What you know what you carry and what you teach. Well that's who and what you are. Now the responsibility for becoming the kind of self who not only carries tradition but actually embodies. The tradition one carries is of course the responsibility of the artists. The intellect philosopher the holy man or the musician who is called to the task but there was always at least one other someone upon whom this work depends how the teacher. Oh the street. Ask one of the teachers. Dillon has acknowledged publicly happens to come from the very same russian jewish american stock that brought the world tevi that launched men talking about tradition and balance who becomes a universal symbol for a nostalgic sense of particular kind of tradition in america and around the world. Blood on the tracks dylan said of what some call. His greatest album did consciously what i used to do unconsciously. I knew how to do it because of the technique actually had a teacher for him. That teacher was norman raven. The son of scholem. Aleph him the yiddish writer. Whose stories about tevi. The dairyman inspired one of broadway's most beloved musicals fiddler on the roof fiddler. On the roof which philip roth labeled shuttled kitsch and marc chagall. Whose painting the green violinist inspire the musicals title but didn't really like the show promoted a sensibility. That is all opposite of ravens. A painter dylan stumbled upon near the roof of carnegie hall on the eleventh floor. The top of a building we're dylan had performed in what was billed as this first new york city concert organized by promoter is a young some thirteen years before for an intensive two month period. In nineteen seventy four dylan was the rockstar fiddler on the roof of carnegie hall studying painting. The teacher he says changed. His life as dylan describes it. He says you wanna paint. So i said well i was thinking about it. You know said well. I don't know if you even deserve to be here. Let me see what you can do. So he put this vase in front of me and he says you see this vase and he put it there for thirty seconds or so and then he took it away and he said well. I mean i started drawing it and i couldn't remember about that face i'd looked at it but i didn't see any took a look at what i drew. And he okay. You can be up here and he told me. Thirteen paints to get well. I hadn't gone up there pain. I just got up there to see what was going on. I wound up staying for. Maybe two months sky was amazing. According to one of his most devoted students caroline shawmut painter. Now living in la who's easel stood next to dylan's raven had a wide array of traditions that he imposed upon his pupils fittingly their shared in a traditional form. The form of the ten commandments. Number one inspiration does not last stop in time to forget your likes and dislikes three. If it's not difficult it's not worthwhile four. You must be completely discouraged before you can progress. Five never examined a reason for painting. The answer can only be found in your work by other. Never paint with your mind. Never pay with your feelings paint and draw. Only what your i want. Seven don't be an art critic before you're an artist eight. It's better to be stupid then. Phony nine say one thing but make the most of it and ten never worry how it looks unsentimental and completely focused on the present moment of the i. That's why already heard that for dylan. The result of ravens tutelage was blood on the tracks. One of his most lush emotional landscapes in wash with color formed at a time of deep personal crisis so much so that is new creative. Point of view made it. So that according to dylan his own wife. Sarah longer understand him for one who didn't follow leaders who smashed the parking meters. Who's scattered the traditions of pop songs. In thousand different directions and who has shape shifted often as a musician not to mention painter writer. Dj and sculptor as well. Dylan's admiration allegiance to his teachers and their traditions and his ability to go as own way far beyond them this forms the essence of his e. Y antennas i as a creator what we learn how we learn who we learned with. This is how we discover the world and our voice in it and become whoever i is. It's not just about how we fit into tradition. it's how we become it in for the great ones. it's about. How like an alchemist. We transformed teacher and teachings and tradition into something new. So get your hands out from under your desk where we can see them and get your pens and notebooks ready. We don't offer grades here. Not credit not even pass fail because we learned in the syllabus for episode five on love that there's no success like failure and failures no success at all. I'm steven daniel. Arnav open your textbooks to episode six. And welcome to bob dylan about man and god and law teachers and what do you look for this hope that you seek in. Where do you look for this lamp. That's burner for this oil gushing. What he look for this candle. That's glowing. Where'd you look for this. Hope that you know. Is there out there somewhere and your feet can only walk down. Two kinds of roads your is can we look to two kinds of windowless. Your nose can only smell two kinds of hallways. You can touch and twist and turn to kinda doorknobs you can either go the church your choice. You go to brooklyn state hospital. He find god and search your choice. You find guthrie in brooklyn state hospital. And that's only my opinion. I maybe right or wrong. You find them both in grand canes. Sundown woody guthrie bob dylan made pilgrimages as guthrie lay in a hospital bed. Dying of al s dylan playing him songs. A lot of them. Would he's own songs. Dylan picking up and giving back tradition at the bedside of formative musical mentor during his early days. In new york city dylan already adopted guthrie's vocal style and talking blues tropes had fashioned to kind of personal creation myth in which he had been around her a hobo runaway in the city. Box cars in on the dusty highways of mythic america dylan didn't just learn from guthrie. He imagined himself entering his heart traveling world. Completely hey hey what he. You got three road. You sound party. Come alone seeing tighter. It's time storm. It looks diet and it's hardly man born. Guthrie is a hero. Charactered become a role model a fantasy and also quite literally a force of nature. He's the grand canyon for which there may be no more poignant symbol of the sheer fastness and possibility of america infinitely more powerful than that small dying man and sanitarium in new jersey. His frail body held something transcendent. An endless pallet to return to our painting. Metaphor with which dylan could color himself and the world. And here's the thing about great teachers of great students. There's no limit to the desire and hunger for discovering identity that the student places upon the teacher inhabiting teachers space possibility. Especially when young means escaping one's own limitations it's a new womb but a wound by choice creative womb in which to process just stated integrate oneself until an extension of that teacher is born and also in a process that can be a bit creepy and and citius times. The students sucks up all that was the teacher zone and owns it discipleship learning from a master or guru. To whom willing students give her or himself over is a hallmark of religious traditions. Jesus had his disciples so did socrates and the maharishi and jim jones and the lazy fake. It till you break it. Manipulators of cunanan loving teachers hateful teachers we love to play follow. The leader students are feeders students. Breeders she'll move ro grew work to now. It's funny that george harrison remembered as perhaps the rock and roll seeker with the longest rock and roll spiritual cv in the west about the east. george harrison. Played along with dylan on dylan's own critique of guru. Hunting kit dylan praises mentors teachers throughout his one and throughout his career with an enthusiasm unmatched about any other topic. His acceptance speech for the nobel prize for literature was above all a loving students. Litany of appreciation for literary heroes devoid of cynicism overflowing with gratitude. What i received the nobel prize for literature. I got to wondering exactly how my songs related to literature. I wanted to reflect on it and see where the connection was going to try to articulate that to you and most likely it will go in a roundabout way. But i hope what i say. We'll be worthwhile and purposeful. If i was to go back to the donnie of it all. I guess i'd have to start with buddy. Holly it's gonna be a buddy. Holly is the first artist to be praised here. An unlikely honor for the nobel stage. But this is dylan speech. So buddy holly is first on the agenda. But then we hear the tales of moby. Dick all quiet on the western front. And the odyssey dylan makes claim for himself as a traditionalist. A kind of vessel for all these. Learn from other masters transmitter of tradition lincoln. The chain yes dylan is made what seemed to be some surprising calls when it comes to parking meters and leaders the intensity and extremity of his entry into the vine yard fellowship for example jesus freak flag flying witnessed by the ferocity of those onstage. Jesus wraps we sampled in episode four before the law. These are frightening in their shirty about a single truth a single teacher. Even if the music generates many gems and dylan's four ray into the realm of kebab. Lubavitch sim jewish tradition on the fringes carries. Its own lines of extremity. We happen to love and appreciate much about for bob. Social vision of the rebbe focus on nurturing unique value for every soul and on leaving the world more compassionate and kind than the way we found it. But it's still a kind of fundamentalism fundamentalism fundamentally deny in the end the trust of a disciple the trust the disciple places in a teacher. It exposes that student to be fully engulfed in all that the teacher knows and does and sees like a long wandering. The grand canyon requires a kind of faith in another person that transcends were perhaps anyone can give even apparent. I love roy you well. Yeah well my dad. He didn't leave me too much. He's a very simple man and he didn't tell me was this he did say john. He said He says many things you know. It's possible to become so defiled in this world at your own mother and father will abandon you and if that happens god will always believe in your own ability to mend your ways thank you. There's the mercy of the divine teacher that surpasses even appearance. Love and yet for dylan. There do seem to be certain teachers who raise up the possibility of the master and guide to a level that is nearly divine of johnny cash. Bob dylan said in plain terms. Johnny was and is the northstar. Come along and ride train. Guide your ship by him. The greatest of the greats and now truly is what the land and countries all about the heart and soul of personified and what it means to be here and he said it all in plain english. I think we can have recollections of him but we can't really define him any more than we can define a mountain of truth light and beauty if we want to know what. It means to be immortal. We need to look no further than the man in black last with profound imagination. He used the gift express. All the various loss causes of the human soul. This is a miraculous humbling thing. Listen to him. He always brings you to your senses. He rises above it all. He'll never die or be forgotten even by persons not born yet especially by those persons and that's forever so beautiful. Spacious sky the amber waves of grain purple majestic mountains above the fruited plane in the sunny ds of winter snow from arizona san cherokee north carolina to tarpon springs florida america. It's time to be refreshed recall. The memory did not god shed his grace on the from see shining see. The land is big. The land is free. Sandon serve grass and tree. From cedar shines sea fittingly when bob dylan received a lifetime achievement award at the nineteen ninety-one grammy awards. It seems like nine thousand nine hundred. Ninety one really was several lifetimes ago he had just finished playing a raging riotous. The words of presenter. Jack nicholson version of masters of war. There are the buddy holly's and johnny cashes of the world and there's divine master and on the other side. there is such thing as an evil master. The worst teacher of awe. In what lifetime could what master what father figure what owner of culture be so corrupt so hateful and hurtful that dylan could wish that master dad that master the one he sings about right there. The master of awesome took pain in beauty rebellion and unity noise and harmony. Celebrate the history of music for the rock and roll hall of fame. Twenty twenty inductions honoring depeche mode. The doobie brothers. Whitney houston nine inch nails notorious. Big and t rex streaming november seventh on. Hbo max it. To pantheon podcasts dot com slash survey. Fill out a very brief survey to be entered to win one of the collectible rock and roll hall of fame. Two thousand twenty posters as well as the new doobie brothers live. blu ray sets. That's pantheon podcasts. Dot com slash survey is. Yes there's another side of dylan's masters another kind of warning. We live in an age of worshiped idols and knocking them down. Those statues of civil war heroes down to the ground. Even a statue of abraham lincoln got pulled asunder in portland recently status and statues statues and status when our sense of self become so identified with the master. We risk carrying so much about tradition that it gets static it freezes it. Can blind us static. That's the enemy of reception. The enemy of ritual and routine. Watch the parking meters. You might be building an idol. If you stay in that spot too long your status becomes your statue and then you may as well be dead. Where do we learn the difference between good and evil. The good master in the bad one well. From the radio of course sterling breaking through the stabbing from those big stations back east crackled into the childhood bedroom. Home of bob dylan and the iron range of minnesota from the road music from the fantasy of the road keep moving or at least imagine keeping moving to break the status of static but also freedom came from the bookshelf. Cracking open a book to break the board from his teachers from every kind of teacher. What about school itself. What about the boredom and the static of school. What can you learn there. Well we know. Every high school has a legendary english teacher right. A- dead poet's society light in the darkness for teens. Who opened the door into say moby dick or all quiet on the western front or the odyssey. Dylan's was bona face. B j wolfson and. Both of them knew just what had happened. All those years ago in english class by by the show new with a gun owner her shine. You remember that because he had been freezing class. I taught a lecture. Isn't there the lyric in there is about the mid west and learned in school year. You can smell a pinewood bernie. You can earn schoolboy rain. He'd been again. Got near the if you wanna learn. All the batches was staying anne parisian. He's with bill just weeping. They were can smell. The pine would burn. You can hear the school bell ring. Gotta get up near the teacher. If he came you wanna learn yet. Higher education or formal education at least sounds a bit like a plague to dylan once on behalf of tel aviv university. We wrote a letter to dylan's team asking if he'd like to receive an honorary phd. Well his manager wrote back. Bob's not accepting degrees right now. Guest that day at princeton still hold some echoes. There are so many examples of school having done student wrong. He's taught in school from the start by the rule that the laws are with them to protect his white skin to keep up his hates so he never thinks straight only pawn in their game. A self are deigned professors tongue too serious to fool spouted out that liberty is just equality in school equality. I spoke the word is if a vow But i was so much older then. I'm younger than that now. My back pages. The false lessons a falsely framed histories with god on our side or the fakery taught to little miss lonely in like a rolling stone. It's not clear that appearance did much better. Maybe more than all else simply limited in what they can teach the child about the way things are there. Blue eyed son sees too much tells us mods. Alright he's only dying and that his father the one remembered alongside. Jack nicholson in the masters of war. At the grammys while his father didn't know much only that he wrote psalm. Twenty seven which reads though my father and mother forsake me. The lord will receive me dylan as always refining and repackaging the traditions that he learns taking them from the mouths of masters or putting them in the mouths of masters baby's father is really best understood as the father senol good and kind and wise master persecuted mass to the effort kind master who suffers in the garden for all of the students this back and forth this wandering seeking out the northstar and then getting lost in second did they know law some die for some die for arts some dying plane. Crashes and some dive old-age allen ginsberg we welcomed in episode one. So vacation should the one who drove off in his golf cart into a cemetery. Dylan mused on salvation. He actually accompanied dylan to jack. Carro grave one thousand nine hundred ninety five during the off and on filming of rinaldo and clara mostly they talk about literary heroes and death turning pages passing time musing about tradition. What graveyards in paris went to see pulling near spur. So that's what's going to happen to. You won't be in an unmarked grave a copy. How greedy woman of washes. Jesus fix the edgy supporters. Simon age jesus to carry his cross meets is very holy mother sensitive victim as close taken off turns naked falls for the third time this sheet. The daughters of israel will follow him. So what kind of student. And what kind of teacher is bob dylan. In the book of ecclesiastical king solomon rights and furthermore my son be admonished of making many books. There is no end and much. Study is a weariness of the flesh of books about bob dylan including the one. We are writing well. There is no end either. We admit it but something something about wisdom seeking something about working in and through. The work of dylan requires constant repetition. The way tradition itself requires repetitions. There is a joy in that immersion. That grand canyon of knowledge the teacher in his or her work what it represents the northstar that they offered now. This moslem the basement tapes grill. Marcus's surprising informative investigation. Into what wisdom. Message or cultural secret comes to take shape at big pink and what it means that a whole republic is being taught a senior level seminar in the secret history of the united states of america though never once is the syllabus stated. We don't read the constitution allow. We don't even mention that there's a vietnam war just outside the door. The lessons are played in between the lines and in between the notes but still according to marcus a whole world of rules and conversations and wisdom is laid bare for those who listen great. Teachers are mysterious. They are playful and they are not pedantic their pedagogy is them some. Say those who can't do teach that's wrong rather good teachers. They teach great teachers. They do. They draw students to want to sing or right like late. They will not tell they teach by example. The confidence that what they are saying is true and being present with the teacher grounded in truth. A student gets grounded in his or herself. Which is grounding in something greater than oneself as well. The teachers child is to hold. The consciousness of the student like the grand canyon might defended to be that north star and then to step aside while the fiddler steps to the road. Prepare where that wisdom explodes into something new tradition report. This game man our next episode is going to be terminal but we promise that it's not the end almost but not quite we'll be counting to one twenty even though no one is counting and will be holding our breath murder temptation resurrection and the purpose of it all. Yes it's dylan. And the dead episode seven becomes to find us for show song lists writing and more at man. God law dot com or on spotify apple podcasts. Or wherever you do you're listening. Please do rate subscribe and share. It really helps our project growth. We're proud to be part of the pantheon. podcasts network. Visit pantheon podcasts. Dot com tune into the very best of rock and roll podcasts. All in one place. I'm steven daniel ornoff. And this has been episode. Six of bob dylan about men and god and law. Thanks for coming at see you soon pitches. Hello and welcome to the song facts. Podcast my name is corey of lanigan. And i'm here to talk to you about well. You guessed it song fax. This is a podcast where we are going to be talking to artists about all sorts of amazing topics whether it's their songs the moments that shaped the musically or stories. They have from their lives as musicians so really. No topic is off limits. We will have some names you will recognize and try and help introduce you to some that. You may not know yet as well. Everyone has a story to share. And we wanna help tell them all. Our aim is to give you the fan an insight into the minds and lives of these artists. But we won't stop there. We want to chat with producers engineers in our apps and people from all over the industry who can give us insight into how things were how they are where they are going but mostly. We're gonna talk about the songs. This podcast walks arm and arm with the amazing website. Song facts dot com. If you haven't been to the site and you are a fan of music. You must go has an abundance of information about songs artists. And just general good old fashioned fun music factoid for your ever inquisitive minds so join us every wednesday as we begin this journey down a path of creativity culture and personality. Maybe learn something and find a new voice that makes you swoon with delight so go ahead hit subscribe. And let's enjoy this musical journey together. Issue sambas right dylan was revolutionary man. The way that the way that elvis freed your body. Bob feed your mind. Bruce springsteen wants described bob dylan. He had the vision and the town to expand the pop song until contain the world. We agree bob dylan about man and god and law a new podcast. On the pantheon podcast network tells the story of how bob dylan sparked a revolution of the spirit and why it matters. Were exploring history. Hardest st philosophy literature pop culture and religion woven through a deep. Listen to bob. dylan's music. Join us for a different theme. Each episode memory love salvation teachers and many more in addition to conversations with thinkers and culture makers talking about god the universe and everything in the age of dylan proposed than half a century. Trying to understand. Bob dylan songs has been like unfolding the criss crossing lines of a map of the world. We're going to take a shot at reading those maps particularly in a moment or the world. We thought we knew. Seems like uncharted territory to open up. Our eyes dylan sings not only to see where we really are but to see where we need to go. I'm your host dr steven. Daniel arnault a scholar of religion. A lover music. And a student of bob dylan just like you. Listening subscribe at man. God law dot com pantheon. Podcasts dot com. Or wherever you do. You're listening or proud to be a part of the pantheon podcast network. Join us for bob dylan about man and god and law.
Almost Famous Minute 71: Bassist from Cream and Drummer from Wings
"Good welcome back to almost famous minute. Where we're discussing. The two thousand cameron crowe film almost famous. One minute at a time. I'm eric. Nash from watchmen minute. I'm aaron stark from my ted talk. I was almost shooter. Yeah and that's that's amazing stuff you do there with The the the various. I think initially like you know like you know a To you local news. New segment Onto ted talks in the us. Describe what you've done. Cain your story out there and it actually started of all places in a post. In a bizarre political group get her and then ended up being now. If you google aaron stark you'll see a whole range of different videos speeches from me so it's it definitely changed my life never never to let anybody tell you the righty. Something on facebook isn't worth. Wow that's amazing so so glad to have you back for this minute you were. I think we kinda like in the last couple or so but But this one really wanted to get your back in here around here and And we'll definitely a Will definitely hit you up again. A couple more times i think in the end i for a minute two or three maybe even at a couple of points But i think we just got this one minute here and this week is minutes seventy one and it starts with williamson in a chair in the hotel hallway and ends with william telling his mom about his plans. Yes it's quite quite a never number dialogue. have you seen that. There's a lot of character building going on yet one. Yeah right coming from the scene. Yeah that's definitely the big thing. We kind of talked a good bit about last minute. Was casey Where you know yet. One line And then we move into this next the whole minute where it's gonna it's gonna definitely build up. We have a few more lines with still not that many but just just to kind of take care of what would have happened this minute. I went through it really. You know the word by word Dialogue for the deleted scene that that was actually itself a minute long that occurs right here at the very beginning of this of this minute Truly for us. So if i go over that real quick. It's okay to summarize it in a sense. Is that what's happening. What happens is is after he gets you know he's crying and he seemingly falls asleep. So what what the way the the this deleted scene the minute long starts is that it's it's it's what william seizes russell standing in front of them in this. You know in front of the chair with a polaroid camera Just taking a picture and you know th the then. The penny penny has been that right there too. You don't quite see right off the bat but she comes into view and as you know just this big struggle between and william really paying his defenses in a very just awoken state of. I'd never hear her here. This heard this voice of his before. I don't think throughout the movie. And i don't think i hear it again rally but just as he definitely does other kind of voice of just just awoken kind of almost. I think maybe the big reason for it. But it's just you know this. This fight of continuing on with the tour and going to cleveland which is definitely when we get the rest of this minute. So that's that's the amazing thing about about that minute that lead it. Yeah that definitely is a theme of these couple minutes for in the middle of. Here's the william getting hold long into chaos of what the tour actually like and you can see that in the beginning of this minute word. Soon as you open up in. Susan music Then you have the all the celebrity. That isn't really apparently. You're not really see the celebrities themselves instead. You get to see the crowd reaction crazy. The fans are than how they're just going insane their stars and the one main star that they're really talking about this. This this minute bowie. I would understand that that craziness. At the time. You have been one of the big stars in the entire world and you can see a guy in this minute with his Ziggy stardust base. Paint and that that character not only was huge album. Fundamentally changed music. And my opinion. And i think that it opened up the doors for a whole genre of clam and to the eighties Kind of direct correlation from david bowie. Who isn to nirvana and i mean. Yeah they definitely were big big big for the album for the for the on. The show unplugged their cover of the man who sold the world. Yep exactly yeah. I'd never heard that song before of bowie's but boys virgin. I just heard that cover without knowing except except for a little bit of a hint. Or whatever i think he says right before going into it. And here's a here's a here's a song by. I'm right there with you. i didn't. I didn't know that song was until until i heard the nirvana version. That made me go. Back and listen to the and marilyn. Manson was a big. He was hugely influenced by bowie for couple of also. There's a there's been a bunch of bowie in different genres that he's been asked you. I can understand being fan in that in that time. Completely going insane and wanting to do everything you can to be right next to the railway and so part of what that lasts that lead senior Is assist mantra. That they're almost doing the come to cleveland and i think they even mentioned this hotels swingers That we end up having the shift to. We have this little cut scene of the bus going down the road. I think you know. I think it's pretty. You know it's dusk or even you know almost barely after dusk you know at night. A nighttime deaf doesn't seem morning like at all but but then it gets it right into the hotel in its russell in the foreground with dick right there almost shoulder to shoulder pretty much points coming through. And they're just there is little hayes helo. Oh my god you know by by one girl or another as through so so. They're getting the treatment a bit but yeah it's definitely this bigger. Bowie is a much higher level than our war. It's having experienced. Just a tiny taste of that kind of that liberty response. It can be overwhelming even the smallest bits. So i can. I like from williams perspective. Going through that i could understand. That would be a lot to handle all of a sudden everybody coming at you and and for the band. I'm sure especially having built up over the course of the movie. So far the psychology of the different characters in the band. They really crave that kind. Of adulation. From everybody i would say especially. These character does not really featured much of the scene. Think yeah right. Well he's the only one besides russell on deck. He's the one spot the most the easiest because he ended his one of the taller people. Yeah between the between the band the roadies and the and the bandaids and then william to. Yeah his character definitely would be one that would just soak in all as much celebrity as he possibly could. He wants everybody to cheer him. So and there are these other. I mean there. There is the different levels of of these fans to on. That kind of notice wanted to say something about that. I mean there's this one you know a lot of them are most of these fans seem to be standing around and having a good time and waiting for these rockstars but then there's a couple at least you see like second. Sixteen that are sitting sitting in in these lounging. Ish chairs with neo ottoman. Footstool type thing you know and you know they're just you know i mean maybe maybe they're under the influence a bit but they're they're taking there are certainly some of these fans that are just taking a little bit more easy seemingly well and the question there is are those fans or those other gang members from other bands. Because that's the thing about these star tells is that people are just wondering randomly wandering around. That's the basis from cream. And there's the drummer from wings white. You have all these different celebrities. Just kind of milling around and honestly. How are you going to pick out like by site most of these set of all of all the theories that would kind of blend together. Look yeah i mean yeah. It's not like rockstars at this time some most weren't wearing quite garish stuff that they had been just three or four five years fire and then three four five years after this david. If david bowie knew he'd get slumped boys keyboard player might not want. I'm okay. just make sure we actually hit it too because because there was the fate in of a of a of a bowie song that is itself a cover of velvet underground their song waiting for the man. I didn't know that was a cover. Yeah it's definitely check out. If you haven't listened too much velvet underground it's on on the best of only have really the best of i've had it for lines time but it's but it's a great re compilation great is definitely definitely underrepresented band. Yeah yeah definitely wanted to pick up. But it's but it's it's still. It's lead off song on on the on the best of album that heavily stumm and it. There's a reason for that. I mean this is scott. Great groove and bowie. Does it boy does it. Actually grooves it up just a little bit more so wait what you're hearing you know it's not quite as green for i think well and there's one thing this movie's proven its that that has a really fine taste in soundtrack. So i've listened to the almost famous soundtrack by itself for years just because the some of the songs under they bring back memories definitely on that topic really quick while while we're on that. What would the favorite song out of one. That's grown on me and it's definitely. It's definitely an early one to 'cause 'cause i've really only listened to pretty much the best of four. Jeff throw tall Their song teacher Earlier in the movie. I i think i did that. One pretty well at this point. That's an might be the simon and garfunkel america. Oh yeah well that. And that's been a favourite well even before i saw this movie. That's for sure i i was. I was aware of them. My my dad was was pretty big in the simon garfunkel. And that i just. I grew into that pre pretty well when i was in early teen. My my mom was more into janice joplin. It's a to kind of laughed at a little bit. Which were in. Retrospect i look to i regret. I know they're fantastic. Simon more than i. I think now after after time you never dug it mostly sunny. I've never dug into any art garfunkel solo stuff. But paul staff is great so well i think i think the fact that we to dig into your body to that the biggest thing i i know with his with garfunkel Stuff he had a song called bright eyes. And that's where the band indie band from the early from the author essentially at end current even to By bright is out of omaha nebraska. Along with the faint and cursive so the band the band bright eyes almost almost just one guy but conroe burst at john. Chance amazing the references rolodex greens. Yeah yes yeah so the the the one other huge thing i've thought about this scene is is is for this movie. It is the mosley cantina scene of this movie. I think in a little little part of it that we've already gone into this this being there for the stars i mean that's definitely doesn't make sense but overall just just the general kind of you know being kind of a walk through a of of it definitely. It was replicated. Further w further enforce quake ins and with a little bit of touches of equity kind of feeling transition from the from the fans. Then we go into the other version of a party where you have penny dancing around and with her coat and have to say that as a teenager when this movie came out. This wasn't the vhs era like freed movie. I paused and rewound teams. So anytime. I had such a huge crush on kate hudson and yeah that even though she said that she regrets having in a movie now because that Just wishes that she did. It wasn't a big regret for but she was. She made a different decision fully respect but as a as a teenager. I have to admit that. I was enraptured. Makes perfect sense yeah The one other thing here for this hotel. So it's swing a celebrity end so there's a guy named in not apostrophe s. at the end of swing as that's that's that's the is actual name without an apostrophe ends with an s. like that Jim swingers and i found just today. I was a little extra research before we got got going and So i found this one. Cleveland dot com article. And it's it's great. It has references even the came out a at least a month after it came out to at least a month after the movie came out and actually a month to the day is when the guy himself passed away though after after the movie came out. So it's some some time shortly after that is when they put this article out That that details Actually even got an extra one more one more person for the inspirations. That are possible. At least i don't know. I i certainly haven't heard cameron's at for penny lane and her name though. Yeah in cleveland. Only person Band aid groupie. What have you. Her name is christine. boris And and she at the time of the article of her being interviewed for the article and so forth. And i think it's i think it's this gym swingers saying in the article saying the story kind of of him talking with her. He's saying that he he's he's he's seen the movie but she hasn't and he's saying that she should sue because because of similarity him is so striking but you know it's it's it's an amalgamation there's other aspects to penny lane movie that are i mean. The name itself is is definitely another person. Cameron crowe democrat made no bones about it. When he was when you first moved out the these were watches to people in his life that he knew and he just kind of smashed together. Four or five real. People made these this band back from what i understand. The band itself is kind of a mix of led zeppelin and cream. If i'm remembering correctly you know. And i think i have cream on my list and i i understand that but i mean it's it's the four the four that i chose out of out of the five. That kind of. I was hearing a good bit far. Only i started this project. I've gotten collection of lot more since then. But you know the led zeppelin brothers. But the the big reason allman brothers are listen. There's just mainly because of dwayne or gray. Geico still can't get offline right one to remember that russell is very much kind of least aspects of russell. I can see that you know winter skinner than eagles. You know it's it's but then that fifth one is poco and then you know yeah cream not regarding did the one the least one thousand say. The eagles honestly the eagles would be because they seem to be more stable break apart for different reasons than that. But i definitely consider the other one on that list for sure. Yeah let's led zeppelin and cream jimi where the biggest only beaten creaming musically only because it seems that their music onstage is really clapton s timeframe. Okay but but with zeppelin influence. So but yeah the it makes sense that the democrats are gonna smash together as inauguration and he would do the same for people with penny lane. That's i'm sure he. When he was on his tour with bands that he saw a ton of various rupees that he kind of turned into any lane so people could find themselves. Were fiction a lot especially when nelia really wants to remain famous so well. It's all the matter of. I mean if if if a person supposedly writing fiction Essentially just writes down the story. And it's all you have to switch out the name. Everything fits perfectly that. That's probably kind of pretty bad but for all just one person but if it's multiple woman you know how you can do well and honestly even with the changing of with that as long as you change the name. That's why they say. He ended up through like a very rarely. Just or stories ever saying this is exactly what happened because the buzzer to be the most boring stories. Yeah like a forty hour movie because license low life is like the military. It's like it's long. Periods of boredom punctured brief periods of sanity. Yeah 'cause yeah this this tour this one tour that williams on with them for part of it even not not saying all the whole tour that he makes you whether word some cut off at the beginning of the end maybe but You know yeah. It's it's the malcolm five plus tours things that trips road trips. He went on with with various bands. So now there is kind of diminishing returns of deleted scenes here. But here's here's the next one that pops up about this point where we're at So there's a there's a guy and he's he's talking to this girl and he's saying it's memory of a free festival while they were at free club and you know that's vintage belly you know i mean the new stuff i mean. Ziggy stardust is good. But it's it's mass media you know. It's hamburgers for the apocalypse had to. I've never listened to the full album. Bowie's second some some kind of his first but second album. I with with space oddity on it That's really the only song i know from there. So i need to listen to swallow because i listened to this. This one's on that senior so memory of a free festival And that is a killer song in its in. Its somewhat based off of a couple of beatles songs a bid omar cheating us. To between the larry's i think that's hilarious that the fans is talking about Starts commercial and that's out exactly and now it's looked at revolutionary avant-garde kind of going way out on a limb kind of album. And but at the time you know you get lost in the forest when you're looking at the trees along you. They had the credits on the worst. The worst no matter who i. It's always the worst thing and then it was the best thing forever. Rolling stone gets knelt for a time with them especially the probably league asked once. There's a bunch of them that they denver. They've reviewed the album. It comes out and it's terrible. I think what was a big. When they did strike accounting they did a review of couching called the crap like it was just monotonous bullcrap and now the like one of the most revolutionary rap albums of all time and. Yeah they give people like like smack mouth. Got like five star. Got all the stars all the stars So so at the end of this little blurb that the looking this this thing this guy's saying in this conversation that we don't know any more of the conversation for but That's that's when somebody runs to the lobby covered by a bodyguard. So and that's that's that's that's when guests who yells at bowie words that makes sense. Yeah that makes sense. Although i don't. I don't think i would have a hard time believing that bowie would run through covered in a coat only because he was a bit of an egotist hewing maybe just walk through around so he should have entered and said i am golden god right at the medicine yes and russell be like Okay i really wish so. So you know after that. The like i said nick schwarzen- candidate You know i guess. I guess he's essentially like a standup know. Mean he's definitely gone and done you know various other other other media various media type things for hoop knicks. The knicks words working next watson. Here's a great santa. yeah he does he does mostly standup he does. He's a couple of different shows. I think he was on. I don't want to say what the show was wrong But i know he's been on a couple of different shows and but his standup is fantastic. He's he's a is well known. Comedians refuse well respected. So yeah then they're you know so then so then we see this other part where it's at actually at the elevator with with this manager characterize the definitely the most formal looking with this. Were wearing a sport jacket coat. What have you and some other people in in the elevator to that. They're getting bowie. he's getting belly pushed into then switched back to the shot. That that's again. It's it's it's that mosley cantina feel especially with the one guy that's doing. The that has heavy. The bowie cost play. Essentially yeah for sure with the giant lightning bolt across space. And he's the one throwing letter. There's other people there. Is this a one camera which is very similar to a camera that my grandparents gave me. Actually the couple of people with these cameras. Not the polaroid type like that. I mentioned earlier the minute but after put film in and take it out and then take it somewhere hit developed. Oh man those cameras are going to be looked at like rotary phones. It's it's amazing. How fast archaic technology shifts. But then like you're saying it cuts to kind of this especially it's a montage and it's got the soviets a bowie a cover of velvet underground plane So you don't really hear too much maybe a little bit of this frolicking type stuff. That's happening Well we got jeff and palencia. I and jeff playing guitar running around after alexia in his room. We're in the debauchery now. The other party. Yeah hidden away in their rooms when when when russell or whoever else doesn't want it to be disturbed And then the nets win also happens. You know this I think the final deleted no actually one more But pleaded seeing that. It's so it's a little bit more of just from behind a nakedness of that. You're kinda starting point. Start to get going towards with a penny She definitely has the code on at that. Point at this point in this deleted scene and russell is kind of like leaning over the bed somewhere else in this room. We don't see them in this minute. In the minute goes onto a whole 'nother seen later in the day or next day or something but you know penny you kind of walking towards a bed and taking her cut off and saint down the bed break. Simple not not not a whole lot to it But mixed in there. It's also who after we get away from jeff plex ya. It's you also have the scene where it's starting you know where she's got the champagne. She's popping net In walking kind of towards russell who's just sitting on four in front the couch at that point so it's kind of going back and forth and then then senior. Talk about where she's where. She's dancing around in front of the mirror. That's a some kind of dresser bureau and they even have a very you know to me early. Eighties style boombox on on on sitting on the dresser. But going back seventy three. I guess that's possible. There was something like that. May is that an eight track in there is definitely of ably that probably a track record player too early for that for the casino that you and i know. Oh yes russell what we know but remember. These are also a musician. They would have playback but yeah you definitely get the her her breasts peeking out through underneath coat while she's twirling around a bit. Yes and that's the team that i was just i. I was enamored by her even for. But i have to admit that i was a shallow teenage boy that was fascinating to me and she even comes over to rest will point here where where i mean. It has him drinking from the bottle of champagne. I assume you know some kind of alcohol. I'm sure and you know going in for a little. Make out sessions to start off the further activities. I'm sure were to happen or continuing. Interestingly right in right in front of them. I think that's a was that a cheesy board. I think i think so. I think so easy which was really bizarre game. I used to play all the time when i was growing up and i never really understood it. I never got what the point really was but it was popular for a little while on no died off early on. When i'm like i said it's back and forth back and forth here a bit Shows almost you know very subsequent to penny and russell starting to make out than it also shows a jeff lexi on a bed kissing up a bit and then we get liam sitting there by himself on his bed next to the telephone trying to figure out something to do i. I don't know it's crazy with the the you know. The idea to show him sitting. There is just is just relaxing. She's dancing around being being the the girl trying to get all the attention and he's just killing the disillusioned rockstar russell. Sit down sit down. But then like what i was saying was williams said on his bed. Oh well he's i think he's. He's just kind of relaxing i. He's he's not sure what kind of out of it not really sure what had to absorb it. I mean you can tell whether the beginning of the the end of this minute which is kinda leading the next minute. Where he's calling his mom and he still kinda tenuously holding on to the past but this is a right about where breaks although. It's kind of a bit of a spoiler for the next minute. But i'm not going to be here to talk about it. So the the The conversation that russell has with his mom is hilarious and and definitely search that while while william might be changing over the course of this adventure. Mom isn't really going to very much. I'm so yes so. It then cuts hard cuts to weigh on the phone. You can hear him and then the camera zooms vacuous little bit so you can see him and russell on the other side of the screen. But william is on the phone but you hear what i'm saying. Hi mom i'm in cleveland. So you should be able to figure out. He's on the before you exactly see it. She must say something he then replies. Oh i'm fine i'm fine. So how are you. Apparently he continues gonna fly back monday morning and you know my big note here is that i'm kinda gonna guess. Say roughly three times. Maybe that he's done this delaying. Oh yeah we're pushing it off wrong. I'll be home but now i'm gonna go to cleveland. What have we got this next up. I'll be home just to be home before my. What was it though. Some event that he was going to go to like Drum so i don't remember what it was in the movie. I thought at one time they will. You mentioned that he had you back for something for school. Yep well. I mean we're just at the very end of this minute when he says i'll only one test. There's definitely graduation. Being talked about the different point. At some point you know and yeah you know. Yeah he previously left. Saying i won't i. I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure you know before he left. He said i'm not even gonna miss any tests or something you know. So now. He's seen one test at this point they add. It's only russell russell's kind of smirking any consumer these kinds of he's gonna be building passion for the phone and that's going to end the hilarious. There are these girls in the background which also kind of play a little bit of a role in what we see next. It's not not anything too big for the plot but just on the minute by minute basis. Here's a little something happens. Kind of For the girls. I don't know if they're all supposed to kind of be. Bandaids one person. There is definitely a the bassist. Larry yeah i take their the line. Between bandaids groupies. Listed point is a little bit blurred because all the partying going on. I mean even in the room where russell impending were hanging out. There was other guys that was the other bandmates in their girls. Kinda running around to know not not really much privacy separate between them so your net is on the same side of the hallways russell is on right and so then we kind of get a the last thing in. Its dick talking. But it's with him sitting on stage and he's talking with some fans and so this is just. It's just really interesting that i just. I just now noticed that that okay. That's ed they're on the right way back in the hallway and so but what dick's he starts off with jeff russell what he says here. Jeff russell are the figureheads of the band but i think the true stillwater fan you know absolute stillwater. Fan knows the purity. The essence the core of still waters music comes from ed vallon court silent. That's just ev- every van member trying to get a little bit of that china onto themselves. The nypd up by the by the manager that is supposed to be russell's best friend but but hey he throws around his his platitudes some some platter. Yeah towards some of the other members sometimes apparently. Yeah well and it's his job to pump up. Everybody lives round here just kind of show business shallow nature. They just want the spotlight on them. And that that's kind of the the for the split that's happening in the band. That is that that that craving the spotlight drives them apart. While i do you. Do you have any further. Notice things you like to say about the minute now. A leading up to one of my favorite parts of the movie. I like this whole area. The example of the normal listed williams striving for getting invaded constantly by the partying. And harding's taking over for a while but williams. Being this. he has to stay on his own rudder. So yeah he's talking talking on the phone with his mother in front of other people which we've had certainly one funny scene before with the intro of and we get that You know it's not. It's not really anything funny yet in a sense but definitely coming up The fun the fun times next minute. Yes okay so Erin let's just here again. You know what not how people can find you. What whatever you might be doing any time soon but it seems like that might not be the case so much unfortunately only the virus these down but yeah follow me on twitter at stark dead thirteen thirteen. I have a youtube channel aired stark. I'm going to be putting up more videos without. I did upload a video just the other day some trying to upload more of those I am on facebook. My facebook group girl. You are not alone I was just a guest on the irish podcast. Though if you look at athlete irish. I would just guess on that day. We talked about politics and with people leading radical radicalization So yeah just follow. Find the around. I'll be back on this show again tusa. Yeah that's great yeah. We can't wait until that happens Somewhere down the road like house measuring but so this was Seventy one Besides being on the pantheon podcast network which you can find a by going to pantheon. Podcasts dot com The show and feels like weezer in like fifty other shows are all about rock and roll or at least somewhat related like country music rap. I think are thrown in there sometimes too But then one is one other thing. I definitely want to point out point every now and then Is for the whole middle east by minutes community. You can find At this point just just here this weekend. We're recording We're now up to one hundred seven different shows that are listed there at movies by minutes dot com weren't seventy seven different shows. That's not movies because plenty of the shows multiple movies in them much. Thank the originators Pretty much of of of the style at least doing daily which i've gone away from. That's where you're unsure star. Wars met and good old pete now there that started stars. Man can't wait until they get the last jedi sometime soon. I believe i believe that's the next one should be coming from them So like i said this is a seventy minute. Seventy one. and we'll be back next. Time with mid seventy two and big huge. Thanks again erin. And until then. It's all happening. it's all happening. I am a golden The queen of hearts only pitches latin. Sal hello and welcome to the song. Facts podcast. My name is corey flanagan. Nine here to talk to you about well. You guessed it song facts. This is a podcast where we are going to be talking to artists about all sorts of amazing topics whether it's their songs the moments that shaped the musically or stories. They have from their lives as musicians so really. No topic is off limits. We'll have some names you will recognize and try and help introduce you to some that you may not know yet as well. Everyone has a story to share and we wanna help. Tell them all our aim is to give you the fan an insight into the minds and lives of these artists. But we won't stop there. We want to chat with producers engineers. A in our apps people from all over the industry who can give us insight into how things were how they are and where they are going but mostly. We're going to talk about the songs. This podcast walks arm and arm with the amazing website. Song fax dot com. If you haven't been to the site and you're a fan of music you must go has an abundance of information about songs artists. And just general good old fashioned fun music factoid for your ever inquisitive minds so join us every wednesday as we begin this journey down a path of creativity culture personality. Maybe you'll learn something and find a new voice that makes you swoon with delight sa- go ahead. Hit subscribe. and let's enjoy this. Musical journey together dylan was was a revolutionary man of the way that the way that elvis freed your body bob. Feed your mind. Bruce springsteen wants descri- bob dylan vision. And the town to expand the pop song until it did contain the whole world. We agree bob dylan about man and god and law a new podcast. On the pantheon. Podcast network tells the story of how bob dylan sparked a revolution of the spirit and why it matters. Were exploring history. Heart history philosophy literature pop culture and religion woven through a deep. Listen to bob dylan's music. Join us for a different theme. Each episode memory love salvation teachers and many more in addition to conversations with thinkers and culture makers talking about god the universe and everything in the age of dylan more than half a century. Trying to understand. Bob dylan songs has been like unfolding the criss crossing lines of a map of the world. We're gonna take a shot at reading those maps particularly in a moment. Where the world we thought we knew. Seems like uncharted territory. Doping up our is dylan. Sings not only to see where we really are but to see where we need to go. I'm your host dr steven. Daniel arnav a scholar of religion. A lover of music. And a student of bob dylan just like you listening. Subscribe at man god. Law dot com pantheon. Podcasts dot com. Or wherever you do. You're listening or proud to be a part of the pantheon podcast network. Join us for bob dylan about man and god and law.
The Career Musician Ep. 66: Real Musicians Don't Starve with Michael Elsner
"You're listening to the career musician. Podcast with creator and no mad with twenty plus years of experience in the music industry. No mad has done just about everything to earn a living as a career musician from being music director to celebrity artists playing iconic arenas and stadiums composing for film and tv and even playing your average local club gigs. He's done at all nomads. Mission is to empower musicians across the globe with strategies for a sustainable career while blasting stereotypes and bring you tried and true wisdom from his colleagues in this crazy business. We call music on this episode. We have elsner guitarist composer producer and now music sync licensing guru. He created a course called master music licensing. And let me tell you. He has done just that with over two thousand placements in his own catalog. This guy knows everything. There is to know about getting your music in film tv and multimedia purpose platform. He gives us a little bit of insight. Right here on the episode but you can also check out his course so grab a pencil and take some notes to learn how to get your music placed and film tv and multimedia right here the career musician podcast with none other than michael elsner. Welcome to another episode of the career. Musician i am sitting. What roughly eighteen hundred miles away from my next guest today. Michael elsner and my good buddy dear friend. Guitar shredder producer. Extraordinaire engineer extraordinary music. Licensing sync master guru literally and overall good. Dude michael elsner. Welcome to the crimson. Podcast i love that. You actually did the map and figuring out how many miles apart we are roughly. It's awesome this awesome. Thanks for having me. My mogul no matter your poll. That's right that's right that's right. That's right michael michael minority model. Okay so welcome and you know what. I have a list of questions and outline and i sent to you and i just did your podcast as a guest. And you sent me your outline. I really dig that by the way had a great time on your podcast. Thank you by the way. I had an awesome time talking to you. So yeah we're gonna talk about that in a minute and i kinda wanna throw my interview outline out the window because michael have had this ongoing debate. I think fifteen years now. And i'm going to put some like some some boxing music underneath this exciting underscore you know. He's always saying. Look if i could get a torn gig. I'd be a happy man and i said forget soaring. I don't give a shit about touring if i can get half of the sink licenses that you have. I would be happy man. So we've always had this ongoing battle back and forth First of all without going too deep give me a brief history of your music trajectory and your goals and why the heck why were you. So hell bent on being a touring musician. What was what was that all about so well. I started playing guitar as a teenager. Like you know young male guitar players. Sure absolutely and i got into it hard and i just fell in love with it and i got into all those guys got into eddie van. Halen and randy rhoads. Paul gobert devise a triana john ritchie. This is the late eighties early nineties so you know that was those. Were the guys. eric johnson. Stuff like that. So i got into the technicians who were also very melodic and and you know play played with great bands and stuff like that so i was always always the guy who played in bands and and That was always the goal. I played in a band for a number of years up in new york and made some music up there and made some records. And i got my head my first experience in a studio in the mid nineties and was captivated by that process and And i was kinda frustrated afterwards because while we spent like a year playing all these shows to make enough money to make a record go into a studio for a week and make a record when it was done salad. Great but it just didn't sound like us it was so produced and so slick and the guy. Who is the engineer. The studio. He basically became the producer but he didn't really know what we sounded like and so it was funny. We were excited about it. But i think after three months later after the novelty were off. I just listened to and i thought this doesn't sound like us not. It's didn't capture us so i started getting into production and got a four track and started learning how to record songs and i was always writing songs. So he's doing that. And i moved to nashville in ninety eight. It's funny because. I wonder why i did. Move to nashville. As opposed to going out to los angeles and when it was just closer to new york and whatever and thought i could easily go there and get a gig and travel and at that point has early twenties and so i just wanted to travel and but i started working with engineers and producers and working with them and i basically spent four and a half years. started off as an assistant engineer for like a year then a year and a half. Maybe then i started producing kind of just jumped right into producing and started producing records and then playing on records and taking my songs around the publishers and try to form a band. That is very difficult to form a band in a music community because all the great players are out traveling with other artists. Isn't that true. Yeah so that was. That was something. I wish i knew you know before i did that. And then out to. Nash moved out to los angeles. The two thousand and three. I realized that i basically in my first four and a half years in nashville. I had kind of pigeonholed myself as a nationals. Very much that kind of talent. As you know that that you pigeon toed very quickly and And i got pigeonholed. Just a studio guy and so i thought well i'm going to go out to los angeles. I'm going to re- rebuild my career. And i moved out to. La landed a gig on a tv show right off the bat playing guitar on a tv show and that led to some films working with some composer so right off the bat i just landed in the tv world and the film world. Which tv show was that. The first show i ever did was the young and the restless and then the first movie i ever did was ella enchanted. Wow and and so. Then then. I i met some music. Supervisors of course through that whole thing started getting my songs placed. I'm really convincing the whole thing to la to to try. And find a tory gig. And i needed money. So i picked up the session. Gigs and basically you know through the through the two thousand. I spent a number of years just trying so hard to really get out of the studio world. And get into the touring world. And then i f- to see you around two thousand seven if i can't land a touring gig all of these create a band. Maybe that'll do. It created a band and we did three records and then had a ton of placements but that was two thousand. Seventy thousand eight two thousand nine so the worst time to go after a record deal when the economy's tanking and record labels are laying people off and that was the beginning of the of the of the music industry really was in fact two thousand eight. Two thousand nine was an interesting time to watch just being a part of the licensing world to see how all the labels really in two thousand and two thousand nine. That's when they transitioned from. Oh my gosh. we're losing money like crazy. Let's try and make some money back through licensing and you saw that big transition happened during two thousand and two thousand nine where where we're licensing was very much like a tertiary kind of thing that we'll do some licensing but we're really focused on album sales and publishing in the net ban during during those two years you know maybe maybe two thousand eight to two thousand and ten ish. There's a real transition that happened and and it became a main focus for a lot of library Record labels and it was interesting to be a part of that you transition especially a lot of my friends were music supervisors and stuff like that. And where one point. It's very easy to go and hang out with them. Go grab lunch. You know a year and a half later all of their lunch. Schedules are full because they're meeting with all the and our guys who are afraid of losing their job tomorrow you know so there was a transition that happened during that you did. Such a great job of tying that in segue. This is perfect. Because this is all i care about for this episode you are look. I said it in the inter. I'll say it again. You are the sync. Licensing master sense a guru fucking industry. Yes you are no now. I'm officially giving you the msg title for sync licensing msg master sensei guru. That's it dubbed. Michael elsner okay. I'm basically you're basically calling me like like the cobra kai say you're the ultimate of the ultimate. Yoda yes maybe. I should be or less than mr mia regi instead of increase. From whatever you prefer. That's whatever title you prefer you get. So here's the deal. Ladies and gentlemen. Look i've always admired michael's propensity for this and he and he's still says i just kind of did it and i did. It happened naturally. You know bubba and yes you are right. Your career took the natural trajectory that it took just like mine took a different one but in the similar fashion. But here's what i admired about you. You took time to put your head down and study and you kept studying. You figured out how the side of the industry worked and then not only. Did you succeed. In that side of the industry you bountifully succeeded. You've mastered that side of the industry. Now you have to understand michael. The reason why it's so important to a lot of people who haven't done it is because it's impressive number one because you were successful in that you earned a living and a good living at doing what you love and what you're passionate about. You took the music that you created that you composed that you wrote and you licensed it and kept doing it successfully for many years. This is what a lot of musicians want to know. How the heck you do it. Explain your the whole how you got into music licensing and how you mastered it and now everything that you're offering so i learned early in my career as a guitar player that i was able to reach certain levels a lot quicker if i put together systems to get there and what i mean by that. Is you know. I had friends who are also playing guitar. Who you know they were just sit around and play and and they would really knock it. They wouldn't really get better. They would just get you know. I mean they really get to the next level very quickly and i learned that if i actually said sorry. I call that musical masturbation. Yeah right and i learned that for me. If i actually spent like a half hour. Very focused on accomplishing some specific task. I could. I could get it done. And i would actually develop skills much quicker and so that was something that i learned that just works for me in a lotta different ways so for me. I work really well. When i'm able to figure out a system and of course i was into studying guitar so what i would do is i would. I would read these guitar magazines and stuff like that. And and i would. I would put together. A little practice. regiments based on what. I learned that that month and the guitar for the practicing musician article. And and i would be able to accomplish it. And it'd be the same thing when i was reading the tab for some of these songs and granted. This is also the late eighties early nineties. The technical facility of these guitar players was that a whole other level guys. Like george lynch paul gobert and situ audience so to be able to play their songs. It took a bit. But i really wanted to play them so i would. I would really systematically put together this process on how to learn it. Maybe i'd learn at half speed. And then you know that was the nice thing about like some of the old cassette players. You could slow down you know and just get better at at at following an actual system and it was. It was the same thing when it came to licensing. Licensing was not my focus. When i started having success licensing my songs. It was just a great way to make. Money is still pursuing the touring pursuit and so at that point. I just wanted to do what i normally do. Which is just to put together a system that will allow me to get results now. I have a process that has gone through many different changes over. the years. As the industry's chain as i as i learned more about how to do it But it's it's consistent and nice thing about that process is it allows me to shut off the left side of my brain right brain left brain people. But it's right when you follow a system you can shut off the left part of your brain. You can stay creative and you never have to ask what's next okay. And that's what i really enjoy about putting together systems. There's no there's no science to a really going. Well this works. This works consistently if i do this. So this is the new system. I do this this and this becomes a checklist and so love that and hold on. Let's park there for a minute. That's that's really important that you are able to shut off the left side of your brain and it becomes a system and if you systematically go through this checklist it's going to work. Yeah it says proven scientific theory. Yeah it's a universal theory right. Yeah yeah the systems will get you to the. I heard this really cool phrase and it was. It was a guy who was talking about schematics right and as guitar players we all know that at the end of the manual that comes with our guitar amplifier. Or any piece of outboard gear that we bought over the years you pre-empts or whatever for engineers and stuff like that. There's that last page to where you can fold it out and it has all these weird squiggly lines and weird numbers and that we don't understand but a smart engineering person would and and basically. That's the schematic of that piece. Aguirre's shows how the signal goes through it right. So schematic what is the short. A schematic is just the system right. What is the what is the root. Word of schematic scheme. We always hear like. Oh get rich. Quick scheme get rich. Quick scheme. And i heard this guy one time say he goes. He was kind of basically saying stupid. Phrase because scheme is a schematic. It's a system that gets you from one point to the other and you have to ask yourself what's better a get rich quick scheme or stay poor slowly scheme i thought. Wow that's brilliant. Brilliant so really if we can put together. A schematic that gets us from here to here quickly. That's the goal right. It's great and so of course guitar player always practicing and getting better. It was always like this is what i'm going to work on this month. This is what. I'm going to work on this week. And you wanna see results quickly. You know and so systems work. That's what to me. Licensing became this thing where it just became. Well this is great money. This is a great way to you know. I'm able to write songs that i wanted to write and this is. This is what's really exciting. I send it out and my songs are getting placed. While i'm obviously doing something right so let me put this together. And then i'd send stuff out might change it and something wouldn't work. Well what did i change. Well this is back. When i was sending out cds well. I completely changed the cds now. I was actually like printing cool covers and graphics and stuff like that well. That didn't work. If i just go back to the plane cd with the back which is like the description of each song that seems to work. This is like pre metadata committed. What analog metadata yea. Well why was that working for me. Because because while the arts the art the cool color graphics j. card and all that we're nice it didn't described the music at all but just having the white jay card that described the music actually have an old one sitting over there. It describes the term so music supervisor could turn it over and own track three. That's a female vocal track. It's upbeat pop. Track and the style of kelly. Clark's this is like two thousand and four thousand five right so she she was a bigger ours. Oh this is great and so they could. They knew just by looking at the city without even listening what they were getting. And i learned okay that worked but when i changed it and i tried to make it look more professional. That didn't work so well. Why did not work. Well when i really analyzed us because i took all the descriptions stuff away trying to make cool graphic. Well that's not gonna work okay. So let's let's scrap that. Let's just stick with with the plane. Stuff that describes every single song now as technology change as we were able to start delivering files that information got added to an audio file in the form of what we call meta data. So this is pre metadata but it's metadata just pre the actual digital delivery of the file and and that was that was so key to go. Okay this is what works. So that's basically step. Three of my process is really the metadata aspect of it but then there are other things that would come up like for example. I'd be like a sushi place having dinner with a friend. And i get a call from from someone who's like. Hey we're licensing the song today. it's a commercial. That's like a twenty thousand dollar commercial but they need the stems and they need them in like thirty minutes. And i'm like i'm like forty five minutes away from my studio you know and then i'd have to quickly like in dinner and quickly get to my car and drive down the four zero five or whatever with a one on one. Wherever we were at best i could and then i was like i'm not going to be caught in this position anymore. So i'm going to deliver my my mixes and my stems and i'm going to deliver all the stuff. Initially that became step two of my process so my deliverables included everything from the get go. Because i had these i had successes and that i had massive failures and i realized that well i want to keep it again as streamlined as possible. So i don't have to leave the sushi restaurant next time. Okay this becomes part of my system. And so that to me is basically the way that that i've i've been able to do it now before we started filming we were talking about netted out. And you'd ask me a question. And i said it's about thorough meta data and and you're digging a little bit deeper these expound. Yeah so the information and and the reality is like metadata is just information. Like if you want to meta data is on your computer and you have pink. Floyd's the wall saved on it and you listen to comfortably numb. You have two options you can either go into your catalog and scroll down to p for pink. Floyd scroll down to pink and then find pink. Floyd and then find the wall album and then find archaic way at you got to scroll down this quarter just to know or you can go into the top search bar and type in the word comfortably. Talk that in every song in your catalog that shows up at the comfortably as the title or or numb or numb a show. And then you click on the completely by pink floyd right and that's how you can quickly. It's into pink. Floyd you can type in floyd or pink. It's just at that point. You'd have a lot more to go through if you had a lot of their album. So so so. That's meta data. Now you have to look at your end users in users supervisors and editors who are looking for the perfect song for the scene that they're working on right now and they're going to use specific descriptive keywords to describe the type of music that they need for that and you want to apply those descriptive keywords to your ossified you want to embed them in the audio file. So that when they searched those words you always look at it like a funnel. They're going to start with one hundred thousand tracks and you want to end up at the bottom of that search. You want to be in the bottom like ten or twelve tracks so that you at least get auditioned for the opportunity. It's kind of like finding a road gig right guitar players out there but for you to become the guitar player for this artist. You gotta show up at at that at that audition you gotta be the ten or twelve guys. That shows up at the audition so you can at least have a standing chance to land decay and it's the same thing with licensing. And what gets you there. In that aspect is the metadata at the metadata that accurately describes and thoroughly describes your music. It's wow you just what first of all hold on it. What you don't want to be master sense guru what do you wanna be mr. The okay okay. I'll be cobra kai doesn't matter okay. Kit first of all it was amazing. The way you did that and the way you brought it all together. So yes that is perfectly applicable and folks listen up. So what michaels talking about. If you're not hip just start. Googling metadata sync licensing. And you know. Just start typing these terms. You'll learn quickly about it and how it works But more so less. Direct everybody to your course. Let's talk about master music. Licensing dot com right. Sure that's your course. That's that's a website. Yeah the course. The course. I only opened up a couple times throughout the year but i do have a e book that that you can read about forty five minutes. And you'll learn the exact process that i've used to get my my sync placements over the years and the biggest thing that i would say to anyone listening who who is a musician who wants to get their songs tv and film and let's just say that you've been trying to do this and you failed. The first thing is it's not your fault that you've failed. It's probably not even the fact that you're music's good or bad it's the fact that your music not even been heard yet and and the thing you have to keep in mind. This is the biggest thing you have to keep in mind when it comes to licensing your music. Is that a lot of musicians. They approach licensing their songs the same way. They approach getting their music out in the traditional music industry path which is finish your song and then send it out and that's a two step process you have to keep in mind when you're licensing your music. You're not working in the music industry. You're working in the tv industry and the film industry in the commercial industry. Say that again bro. Say that again so important. Yeah you're working at a completely different industry. So and that's what musicians don't understand. Yeah so so. You're end users in the traditional music industry path when you're delivering them your song. We'll say we'll say it's someone at a radio station will say it's a fan who came to your show and bought your cd. They they are taking your song. They're taking the stereo mix of your song Putting it in their player and there are listening to it. That's how they live. They absorb your music they're experiencing and that's great. That's how they're supposed to experience that. Those are those end users in that path but in the tv world in the commercial world and the film world in the film and video game trailer world in the video game world whatever. It is anything synchronizing music video. Your end users are absorbing music completely different. Let's just talk about tv shows. brilliant. And i'll give you an example of why the approach is different right off. The bat first thing is in music. We mix music in stereo right. Hand a stereo mix to someone via cd or a file. They listened to it through two speakers. But when you watch tv show where you go to a movie theater. What are you listening to music in. You're not listening to it in stereo. You're in surround mode surround system. Five point one one seven point one right. So what's happening is when you deliver your music. You're going to deliver your music to say a music supervisor. They're gonna license it now. They're going to hand off to the music editor that editors gonna put it in the scene as needed and make all the adjustments the cuts as needed to fit the edit and then they cases that they take the music they take all the dialogue from the actors. They take all the sound design and they hand it to a person called a re recording mixer. And that's and that person then takes that and they mix it in the surround space so so in the music industry path. When you hand off your music your the few have the final say. This is my music now. You get to listen to it. But when you when you're working in the music tv and the film industry in the commercial industry there are at least three steps beyond you people beyond you. Who are going to manipulate your your music to help them tell the story. That's being told visually and they're going to manipulate your music. They're going to manipulate the mix. They're going to manipulate the edit right and so you need to deliver them music in such a way that allows them to do their job easily and quickly and before they even get to the point to where they can take your song and and manipulate it. They have to search it. So those were the meta data comes in. then they have to go through the licensing process. And if you're a musician and you don't know the first thing about sink or master licenses then you can be assured that they're not going to work with you because this is a professional industry just like any other industry. You're not going to go to a doctor who wants to be a doctor. You're going to go to someone who actually knows what they're doing. And it's the same thing with these individuals because we have we have we're dealing with intellectual property and intellectual property rights and when it comes to that you're dealing with copyright you're dealing with the legalities of the ownership of that both the master recording the publishing and if there's ever an issue there's even insurance involved in this process arizona arizona emissions insurance. Let's say you're an artist. And you took a sample from the intro of michael jackson's billie jean. You just took that intro for four beat drum group. You created a song around it that loop legally. You can't use that if someone were license that from you because legally you don't own that drum loop. They could be on the hook financial. They could be sued so none if you replay that you can't you can't copyright a beat. No i i mean you actually took actual sample from what i'm saying. The solution is just replay. That beat or program. That beat beats been played a zillion times. Yeah and you can't copyright that but the same point but you can't operate but that that master recording is copied and this is these are the problems though because a lot of musicians don't understand the business that they take loops that they don't own and they utilize and this is the reason why it's not as simple as just. I'm just guessing music out to a supervisor. Well good luck. the supervisor. eight doesn't know anything about you. And how do they know that you legally own every aspect of so. There's some there's a little bit more to licensing. Just the initial example of packaging up music and sending it out and that's why that go ahead. Sorry so i call that checks and balances yes it really is. It's like vetting. The music has to be vetted legal. And you know there's there's again you're you're walking into a big industry with a lot of money exchanging hands on a daily basis when you're getting your song on tv show. It's not going to be a demo right. So you're playing with the big boys and if you wanna play with the big boys you gotta play like the big boys you have to know how the game is played and licensing. Music is not hard. It's definitely within the reach of every single independent musician. But you have to learn new strategies and have new skill sets to get your music out there because you have to basically learn how different industry utilizes absorbs your music mad whether netflix's or nbc. The indemnification clauses are big deal. Oh absolutely absolute- basically what you're saying can you expound on that and and what that the audience that means like like within that contract is your absorbing the the liability yeah allies right now responsibility the liability but at the same point That's one of the reasons why even now you see. A lot of supervisors don't work with independent artists directly anymore like they used to. They work through libraries and in the licensing world. Library is a music publisher. Now if you're a little older a like myself you myself. You come from an era where where libraries were often kind of like just the wall. I'm just going to throw instrumental tracks into a library. That's not what libraries are anymore. Libraries are full-fledged publishers that fully administer the rights to not only instrumental tracks but vocal songs. They there are libraries that represent the vocal song catalogs of big artists. That you probably own their cds and your in your music collection so even big major artists and big major labels are working through various libraries and administrators definitely administrator administrate the music specifically and only to the sync licensing industry. Join the career musician. Facebook group and get involved in the conversation. Michael elsner and you're listening to the career musician. Podcast with my buddy. Nomad help us. Continue to provide you with new and engaging content by getting our ratings up. Please subscribe and lever review on apple. Podcasts man okay. So this is so important everybody again. If you're if you're lost. Just start googling. Some of the terminology and start with music supervising or start with sync licensing and how to my music or how to licensed music. And that's all gonna pop up again. Master music licensing. Your e book is available. Where for free master music. Licensing dot com. Just go there. And you'll see a link says get started or i have a big blog page with tons of information on licensing you go to the blog and the each blog page. There's a little link. You can always download the book. The book is free or you can get on amazon or walmart and you can spend seven bucks so you can either get it for free on my website or go to walmart and amazon and give them some money seven bucks. Okay well i. I love this because again the the the whole mission statement of the korean musician is to empower musicians with strategies for sustainable career. And if you ask me what portion. What percentage of my income was generated from sync licensing. I would say used to be about a third now. It's vying for about a half way percent of fifty percent. I want to get it to the point where i haven't had about eighty to ninety percent so all the music that i do is just for fun in other words if i play guitar on attract for somebody. It's because i just wanted to have fun. I really liked that track. You know why like that person are like that artist. But i want this. I want the majority of my income to be passive income and folks. That's what this is is passive income. So when you hear people talk about horizontal money making money while i'm sleeping okay. Well that's passive income and that's right and again. I keep tooting michael's horn because it's true. He has mastered that area of the industry. I'm doing pretty well in that area. I'm nowhere near him. Achieved your level of success. I wanna take what you said to another level though. Because i love that you're talking about passive income and i want to be clear i i actually i call it massive an passive. Here's the reason. Why because in the licensing world there are actually two forms of income and and you have the the initial income the immediate income from the initial licensing fees the sink fee itself. Yes yeah and then you also have the passive income from the back end. Royalties that that you get paid through your performing rights organization with tv show or the commercial heirs and and and and here's the thing when it comes to listening you know there's like anything there's different levels you can have. You can have a gig with a with an artist who's playing some smoky bar and it's a gig but it's not an a level right and then you can have the big tour where you know you're playing the arenas and the stadiums and that's your level gig right well licensing kind of the same thing you know you. Can you can supply music for network prime time. Tv shows or you. Can you know supply music for the hunting channel. Which i don't know if it even exists and if it does not have a ton of viewers but the difference here is that one has a large viewership and and like for example like a tv. Show on abc or nbc. On thursday night at prime time is going to have a large viewership. And actually what this is called. This is actually called the hookup. Wait and what that means. Is that virtually every tv in america whether you have cable or not you can get one of those little digital antennas and you will be able to access. Abc nbc and cbs. All of us have access to those networks whether or not we watch them or not is one thing but we all have access to cable is a different thing. It depends what you pay for it right but the hookup way means that. There's a ton of people that have access to abc nbc cbs network channels. So songs on shows like that you're going to have a much higher light licensing fee seek fee and and if you get into like things doing film trailers or video game trailers video games in general commercials any type of advertisement whether it's a radio commercial whether it's a tv commercial advertisements always pay great so look at these as as the upfront fees can be massive income and the back the back end. Income is your great passive income so the massive passive income straw is what you're going after and that's dependent on you if you wanna make massive income then you gotta write music and you gotta gear it for the right outlets. That are going to actually pay you that that income if you're writing music for the hunting channel that you can't complain when your music not making massive incorporeal because again i don't know if that network exists but but if it does then i am going to assume that there's not a ton of viewership to it will hold on here and this is so perfect. I'm so glad you brought it up. Because i have music in a show called pit bulls and parolees very with a show. Yeah right. I think you have music in that. Show tight both. Do i probably do. I'm sure you do well. It's one of those you know off brand kind of cable shows that you know. It's it's a very niche market. Yeah look some of the cues accu- obviously my listeners. If you don't know a q. Is a little piece of music that goes under the dialogue referred to underscore kill some of those make thirty cents sixty five cents depending on how long they use it. Some of them might make a dollar in change or three dollars and change. Okay so that's a decent show. But i always say if you're doing the cable shows or those type of shows like the penny stocks yeah you have to have hundreds of them or thousands of them for to add up but what michael sain is conversely if you have one or two or three major network placements okay. It could all balance out so in other words. If i had a thousand small little cues on the cable that came out to two thousand dollars on my statement or if i had one decent placement on. Nbc that could also be two thousand dollars one placement. but but. here's the thing though. I don't ever focus on the one placement. When the thing that i teach. That's important as i always co focus on consistent placements and the reason why is because you don't know the editor who's using your music for pit bull pit bulls and parolees. He your music but yeah he might be working on the next big. Cbs show next year so true it is oh absolutely or he might he might get a commercial for like sketchers or something like that and you know if he's been working with you and he's and he he knows your name and he knows your music and he likes it and he's or i also say she to be politically correct we don't they say that person they they're going to. They're going to start with what they already know. I have a. it's amazing. I have so many examples of of songs. I've a couple of tracks that just get used over and over and over and over and over and i'm one of those guys where i like to do the research i get the cue sheets and i'm like man. How is this one song getting used on all these shows. And what i'll do is i'll start i'll get into. Imdb internet movie database dot com. And i will. I will go into the full cast and crew section for those shows and scroll down to the music department and i'll look at who the editor is and you know it's really interesting a lot of times. It's the same editor going from a showed her show show show who is just making consistent placements for me and consistent placements consistent income and yeah if you're if you're song isn't making a ton of money you're just getting like every every particular song that's getting on like this. Hdtv show is only bringing in forty dollars or thirty five dollars or we'll just say fifteen bucks or whatever. Okay maybe because they're only using you know like maybe like forty five seconds or whatever of it. That's that's not great money but they also replay that show a lot and also don't know where that guy is going to go and that's the thing is it's about consistent placements you can't look at it and go. You're gonna. i've had. I've had the biggest placement. I mean i've had a theme song but had the biggest placement that you could possibly have. And that is a commercial on on the on the super bowl and i've yet to retire so so so the reality is that not one placement isn't gonna retire. Okay that's important. You have to just look at the consistency of it because the first step in my process is to always be building your cadillac. Yes so you build catalog and you want your music to get out there. You wanted to get place. You want it to be doing stuff for you. you know. And then on a consistent basis that brings inconsistent money. And you can't game it. I've tried. I've been doing it for a long time now. Fifteen years over fifteen years. And i have yet to be able to game the system. There's no way to you know you find out randomly. Like oh my god. This song just got used on this trailer got it. He's got this big film trailer here but then at the same point that same piece of music got used on impractical jokers. Oh okay her fifty sample perfect example. That's what i'm saying. I really liked the reference to the penny stocks because my theory is just keep on churning out the work now a lot of people say oh. It's all about quality not quantity yes. I agree but make your quantity quality which means look. I always tell all my composer colleagues. Because i grew amid i call them. I composer friends. Hey guys i got a new a new brief pitch for a show everybody submit. Let's awesome it together. Come on let's. Let's inundate them with like you know. Three hundred submissions for this show. Why not let's do it. I'm tight with the editor. I'm tight with the the editor in chief right. There you go. I'll tell you the majority of my placements come from editors there you go and then we go out to lunch or go to our favorite cuban place. We go to our favorite thai place with us. Now we hang out we talk. We're talking about the kids. Above about this. And that and bring all my people. And i say look to me a favor. Do one q a day to one day just and set aside three to four hours. Yeah for that one q. I'm not telling you to put in twelve hours on that. Can you know two three. Maybe four hours if it's a more like if it's if there's a lot of orchestration and you have to really be careful with your samples and get the articulations right on the strings. Okay so spend four hours on that but for the average queue. Two hours three hours more than enough time. Wouldn't you agree so easily and using templates and all the dope plug ins that you know for sure for sure. Unless you're doing like like full vocal songs full vocal songs become suffered thing and they pay higher. But you know to give you an example. I wrote a song with a buddy of mine in two thousand and five or two thousand six. I don't recall exactly when but it was that era and and it didn't get placed became a theme song for saturday morning. Kids show in two thousand eleven. We are nine years into that show. It runs every freaking saturday. We have the intro theme song and we have what they call occurrences. Those are the ins and outs in the bumpers. And now say they use that same track so analogy of the theme but we get between eleven and thirteen occurrences every saturday morning but that song sat for about five years. Yeah but now. It's working the passive side of the. It's been working the pacified of the income. It's insane since say you didn't get a massive sink license. But you're getting consistent passive very every saturday. You can't argue with that. I mean assistant and the thing is i also know. I know. I'll use another example. I did a song with another buddy of mine. And i know that i did that. One in august of two thousand and six and and that was We were pitching for a another show. it did not get jobs. We're pushing for the theme. Song of another show did not get chosen and in two thousand and i think sixteen. My buddy called me up like literally ten years later said hey so this. Longest got picked up as a theme song for this other show. They need to know your. I moved by changed by piero affiliation between then and so he needed new information from me my new address in my new pierro numbers and stuff like that but the thing is interesting is it took ten years. That song took ten years to start doing something so you can't look at it like that. They didn't use my song that i wrote last time. Therefore i'm not gonna do anything no you have to consistently because you don't know now there are ways that you can actually make this work for you and that that's steps two and three of my process and that is creating what i call the valuable content which are your multiple mixes and your stems and you cut down mixes and in step three which is thorough thorough say the third time thorough audit data data. I see and it and is a there is a way I selling Showing earlier before we recorded but I did a thing recently. Rows on a on a webinar. And i had the peop- i did it twice. Actually i had the people on the webinar. I said give me some words. We're going to go into this catalogue of three hundred thousand songs. I'm i'm i gave an example of a scene to keep by and i knew that i had music along the lines that would fit this particular scene and the people in the women are chose chose the descriptive words. We input that in the first search brought out a seven narrowed it down to seven tracks. I have four of them. The very next service. slow down. slow down because you have to really let this elk in hold on it. Brought up seven songs from your metadata query it brought in seven songs and four of them were yours to three hundred thousand songs in narrow hold on at a three. Listen out of the three hundred. Thou- i need you to be okay. Oh it's amazing. Michael fattest out of three hundred. I really want the listeners. Understand this and how feasible it is. Look these are not pipedreams phone. Now when i'm not selling you fucking pipedreams. Michael and i are talking about real shit. Three hundred thousand song options. This is a query on on meta data three hundred thousand songs seven songs. Come up based on the metadata metadata terminology that you chose they chose. I didn't hide booker. Shoes it even better. I just gave them. I just gave them the scenario. Imagine you're watching. The film described the scene us. Everyone sending a couple of words. And then i chose like four or five words that people had typed up into the chat. Box i input and narrowed it down to seven out of seven. I had four now. I wanted to show that. I didn't fix this. I was playing with them. So i said this is the main. I was actually surprised that many. So i said okay. I'm going to delete these. Whoever wants to give me a bunch of other descriptive terms. Not like other for that. We add it or whatever and then boom a bunch of other ones popped up copy them. I put them right into the search. I hit the button. there were eight. I think the showed up in the next search. I had one now. The goal here is that it's not necessarily because my music was amazing. It's because the metadata that i attached to the music is fucking amazing. I love that i love. Okay now i get the emphasis okay. So did everybody here that so listen because you have to be realistic. Let's say we're competing eight billion people on the earth. There's a three or four billion that have access to the internet. How many hundred. Millions are actually musicians. And then how many hundred. Maybe one hundred million. Let's call one hundred million professional musicians. Korean musicians okay. And then from there and this this keep deduce cutting down reducing our odds. And let's say fifty million that are professionals and bubba by then maybe there's twenty million that and understand this part of it. Okay right you see around getting. Yeah you see where i'm going okay. So i'm i'm i'm counting arts. I'm hedging my bets. So out of three hundred thousand songs. Submissions seven came up and michael. Four of michael songs were in there and then on the next query yes. Eight showed up. I song showed up and you had one of them. So look listen folks. You have to understand these numbers do you. How do you realize how important that is. That's huge and i'm not trying to be some of the zealous kind of used car salesman but this is real stuff and this what. I want the career musician to understand that. Real musicians don't starve and this is why you don't have to starve. You see because the career musician knows real musicians. Don't start and this is the truth. You just have to study a little bit to learn the ins and outs and it kinda goes back to the idea of a. You know that kind of goes back to what i said earlier about like. It's if you've tried at licensing music and you failed. It's not your fault. It's simply because most likely just did not know the process so that your music actually show up in the search and you can actually have a chance of getting the reason. Why a lot of people have failed. And i've been. I've been since since since we met fifteen years ago in the licensing world and i've been talking. Sharing this with a lot of musicians are always asking how can do this as well and it really boils down to. I don't ever teach how to write songs for tv because there is no right way to write a magic formula. That's right the worst song i ever wrote. The frick and worst song. Worst piece of crap i ever wrote was licensed hannah montana and high school musical two so so if believe me if you throw it in there but it got a but it's true because it was something that i felt like this is this is ever going to use this but did you made tens of thousands of dollars off that. Well the thing that i learned and let me give you an example. A great story of what. I've learned here. Is that when we look at our songs a lot of times. We step back and we look at the entirety of it. So let's say you're looking at a ruler. Okay you're looking at a ruler. And it's it's a twelve inch ruler okay. And that's the length of our song. Okay so we're looking at that and around like the three inch part. That's where the divers comes in four and a half inches. That's where the first course in whatever right so we have different sections on that ruler that relate to different parts of our song but we look at the song because we created it. We look at it as a whole and can go boy. The song is great or whatever but maybe that bridge the starts around like the seven inch mark to like the eight and a half inch mark. That's a that's just not good or whatever right well. The thing is with with licensing an editor when saw was placed in a tv show. That whole ruler is not gonna slide in there. What's going to happen is a little section of that. Ruler isn't it might start at the three and a half mark inch mark and it might go to five inches and that. Maybe that's the last line of verse into the first two lines. Of course who knows right. Sections of that are going to be used. And i had a song that i really liked at one point early in my career. This is a great learning experience for me. I spent lot of time on the verse and on the chorus i had a beautiful singer vocalist. Come in and seeing just beautiful vocals on it Female vocals on it. Do we do great back. On vocals in the chorus it just was magnificent and the bridge was just a piece of crap because the bridge had to be done really quickly and just garbage lyrics. Couldn't even figure out the right melody to fit her voice because her voice sat in their she did a lower harmony was too low. If we did hire harmony was too high for her voice so we were kind of in this. Quandary of what do we do here. So i just saying lower vocal harmonies so out of nowhere in this bridge comes up male voice weird right and the lyrics were just garbage was so glad you found me. I'm lost in your love what you surround me. I can't get enough just stupid lyrics and and it got licensed on a tv show. And i was so excited about it. Because i thought this is great. The chorus beautiful. Well when the show came out. I watched it and the and the entire show when all the way through and i never heard the song i thought. Oh my gosh. Maybe they gave me the wrong date. Well what happened was in the show. The story is that this new guy comes into town steals the girl from the other co star guy and he's a total scumbag and just leaves her at the end and dumpster right and she ends up at this table like by the beach with her ex. They're making up and and she says she's basically saying that you know you're right. The guy's a scumbag. He says she goes. I'm so glad i have you. And he goes. Well you always know where to find any and that's it then it goes from there out to you. Know the silhouette of them walking on the ocean credits run but right when he says you know you always know where to find me. That's when the bridge swells in and the first line is. I'm so glad you found me. I'm lost in your love when you surround me. I can't get enough and that bridge into the ultra ultra. Musical section is what happens during the silhouette portion and in the closing credits. And it's about about. I don't know maybe twenty five thirty second placement but at that moment i learned first off. That stupid bridge perfectly summed up the entirety of that entire episode. It's fit perfectly. And i realized every section of a song could find a home so so in that case. If you're looking at that ruler they only used from like the seven inch mark till like the eight and a half inch mark for that placement but it was perfect for that placement. That's always been placed in a lot of other shows but but that's what i learned that it doesn't matter what you're writing everything you write can find a home somewhere somewhere and let me just say this. You said a minute ago. Stupid bridge was these stupid lyrics. No conversely the bridge and the lyrics were not stupid yeah they were actually perfectly poignant yet because they found a home that was appropriate and relevant to the subject matter. They were simple and it's interesting because i had viewed those song. Now i don't view. I view this now exactly as you say i different perspective of these songs but i come from album world. I lived in nashville songwriting. All these stupid rules stupid. songwriting rules. That songwriters follow that our complete garbage. But i had that. I had been brainwashed to follow these stupid rules and so again i looked at the song and i was like that system stupid chorus. I'll go back and rewrite it at some point but the reality is that chorus made me a lot of money and that dumps on that. I'm joking about with the high school. Musical and the hannah montana. I joke about it being a stupid song. But it's not a stupid song. It was stupid. I looked at it as a stupid song because i was looking at it compared to like these nashville songwriter. Songwriting things rules. But that's made me a lot of money. And when i actually really stepped back and i analyze the reason why talk place was because it was so youthful and that's not who i was by any means as an artist at the time but it was just goofy lyrics that were kind of you know very goofy but those lyrics fit the youthfulness of shows like hannah montana and high school musical right right and so that's when i realize you know what you can rhyme home with alone rhyming. Home with a loan is a no no in the in the songwriting circles. But it's beautiful. It's perfect in the licensing world because it's simple in everyone can recognize and i'm a big fan of a particular producer. Also songwriter may mutt lang. And to the point where. It's almost fanatical and leopards twain. Yeah the list goes on. Yeah bryan adams. Acdc adams the cars. Yeah foreigner maroon five nickel bag. We can keep going but you know when you really listen to a lot of his lyrics because he wrote a lot of lyrics especially the shania twain's of i love this stuff using those lyrics there so simple simple their kids to keep it simple stupid exact and and accord. I had to get past this mode of of all these songwriting rules that i learned the first four and a half years. I lived in nashville tour. I had to go. You know what you can. Rhyme every line can be the same same line. The same rhyme the rhyme. I have a song called you again. Where the every other line from every verse and every course is the words you again and that's always been placed. I mean dozens of times and every line the chorus and the verses. Every other line is the word you again the words you again. So it's breaking every rule possible but when you think that up to tv again we gotta keep in mind that we can't look at it like the whole twelve inch. Ruler we gotta look at it from increment increments. Yes that's right baby michael. This has been amazing first of all. Wow okay second of all. Wow third of all a master sense. Guru cobra kai but listen wrapping this up because this is perfect. All the information you need and folks remember master music. Licensing dot com. Listen michael with of wisdom if you could give us one little nugget of wisdom because like you said. You're sitting here shattering. You are shattering lifelong decade-long century long kind of codes within the music industry. You're breaking the rules words of wisdom one little nugget that you would tell us one nugget that i would say is after. You're done listening to this when you're home tonight. And you're and you're sitting in front of your tv consciously make an effort to turn off like your is even if you're watching it. Just close your eyes and just listen to the that you're hearing underneath whatever show you're watching and if you're just flipping through the channels watch a show for ten or fifteen minutes and just listen to the music. Stop watching the show. Just listen to the music and when a commercial comes up listen to the music. Liz get into the habit of listening to the music. That underscores anything to you're watching on the tv all right and you're going to start hearing so many different styles of music you're also going to learn that a lot of the music that you're hearing is not super produced their space in there. There has to be minimalistic minimum because they're cast to be room for all the other stuff to be room for the footsteps on a wood floor or the wind rustling through the leaves. Or someone putting a coke bottle down on the table or breathing you know dialogue and the sound design exactly i would folly the for the foley i would. I would listen. I would just listen to the music. You'll you'll start becoming very aware of the wide variety of music that gets used every day and again. Don't ignore the commercials. The commercials are gonna be some of the highest paying things you're gonna do. Don't ignore the commercials. And the the other thing i would. I would really encourage you to think about it and this is just a mindset shift. Is that if you're sitting at home and you're and you're frustrated that you didn't get to where you wanted to get to in your career. Were no one songs and you gave it your best shot and this and that keep in. Mind that when you turn on. Tv the people who are writing that music are people just like you just like me just like mad. They're they're they're just like all of us there individuals who really love writing music. We are able to do it. Most of us are able to. You know i think at this point. Everyone can pretty much by logic pro tools for their computer and do a fair job. There's so powerful. But but but there are people who are supplying music and making money licensing. Their songs are people like you and me so if you are thinking why can't do that. That's out of reach. I'm here to tell you one hundred percent wrong because people who are writing the music on those shows they don't live there they don't all live in los angeles. they live all over the world. They're writing music out of their home. The only thing is that they've learned the process that delivers a lot of value to the supervisors the editors and the re recording mixers that allows their music. Too easily searched auditioned and then licensed. And that's it. It's what we talked about that internal dialogue. Don't let your internal dialogue tell you. You can't switch it reprogram. It make your internal dialogue. tell you you can. Yeah because you can and you will. Yeah yeah when you when you decide that you can but it's interesting you know i think about it like this. If if you said to yourself you know your car broke down. I can't afford a new car when you say that your brain shuts down and you've defeated defeated right now. I'm defeated. i can't afford a new car. I don't know how i'm going to get to work tomorrow. Whatever but when you go my car broke down. How can i get. How can i get a new car right when you start asking that question. That's your brain starts. How can i get a new car. Well you know. I have a buddy of mine who is. He's had a car sitting on the side of his house. Maybe he wants to sell it. Or maybe i can rent it from other whatever you start coming up with all of these new pads because your brain is smart. Your brain will start finding those avenues that will allow you to get to the reach the goal that you want to get to so you have to stop saying i can't the you have to get that out of your mind and the question that successful people ask that career musicians asked that room. Who don't starve. Ask is how can i. And when you ask questions the path will start laying itself out in front of you and then you start walking down that path and it's not gonna be a straight path ready fire aim so you start walking down the path and you get to a little corner and you gotta you gotta make a little adjustment to get around that corner there But you but you will. You will get to the end of that path for sure. There's nothing i can say to tap that. Beautiful beautiful eloquently beautiful. All right you ready. We're going to wrap this up with some rapid fire questions. Yeah i don't want you to think. Just say favorite food. Oh gosh pizza pizza. I see i love you. See we see we could brought come on. That's easy favorite topping. I like pineapple okay. We can't be brothers and bromance is over pepperoni baby. I had a feeling it'd be better on aca. We'll both new yorkers all right which i still don't understand the pineapple thing you being a new yorker but okay. i'll let you know i just. I just liked the sweetness of it all right. good point. Good for elegant favorite libation drink adult beds if you have one. I like margaritas. Woo love also moscow mule. Anytime yes see. Now we're talking. Yeah favorite sport football nice. How do you spend your free time on my boat who you go on your boat lake. I'll there's a couple of lakes around here if if it's just for the day it'll be percy priest try and go out for like four or five days at a time and in that case we'll go to dale hollow camp out. Oh yeah oh sure and everything. Big deal hi. It's awesome absolutely love it. And what a tab. What what activities did you enjoy on long flights when we weren't under the covid thing. Oh you're going to china japan and i'm the super nerd. Who during those long flights reads were were rights. I those i'll write a lot of content. I can't. I can't sit on a plane and just watch a movie. I feel like that's to me. I can't do all either. Read a book. Or i will write some content that i share with people who are follow me in the licensing world. I love it. What's the latest song band artists that you have listened to that you have not worked on. Oh like consciously. Listen to or like they happened to be on the radio. Know that you really wanna listen to because you enjoy it but you have nothing to do with that music. Sadly i hate to say it. Because i wish i had something to do with the museum but in my car right now tonight. Twain's up album. And i have the pop version not the country version as one of my favorite albums of all time next to death leverage hysteria and bryan adams waking up the neighbours. Now michael can you. Can you give me the common thread between all three albums. Mutt laying a producer. We just said it all right favorite. Tv show or movie that you have. Maybe you've been streaming lately. I got the office i mean. I watched the office every day. Okay good shopping online brick and mortar pre and post covid brick and mortar good. I liked that dream. Collaboration if you can collaborate with one muse musical entity whether dead or alive. Who would it be ed roland from collective soul. Ooh that's i haven't heard that i very good one. I think he is one of the best. Most underrated song writers and performers. I mean that would be a dream gig for me just to i i. I just love them. I love his songs. And i think he's fun to watch live but i think his songs are so unique he just has a very unique voice and a very unique style. I really liked collective soul. Barry cool you know interesting about collective soul by the way is that you know they never really got the big the big. I pay off the pearl jam. But you know it's funny is is when you really pay attention. If you know their catalog you hear their music. On a lot of tv shows the music is perfect for that and you hear their music a lot on the radio like if you're at a restaurant or something like that it's it's that kind of music that you hear a lot but sometimes you don't always know them very atmospheric and conducive to the ambiance in the room. Yeah it's it's just great great tunes and yeah love that. Hey listen last question. Ready okay is the big one. What would you do if you weren't a career musician. Gosh like if. I had never gone down the music path. If you weren't a professional musician ever you never made a career out of music. What would you do. I i would probably be stuck at home. Depot mixing paint people. that's cool. I love the paint department at home depot. I used to mix paint at a at a hardware store back in my early twenties. So i would still be doing that if i if i didn't pursue music i love it. See that's testament to the fact that real musicians don't stop this. Thank god. I love michael elsner. Thank you so much for being a guest on the career musician awesome. Thanks that he was like. You said you're listening to the career musician. Podcast by nomad. Subscribe to the brand new career musician youtube channel now streaming all of the career musician podcast episodes. Hey this is nomad host and creator of the career musician. Podcast and i am thoroughly stoked to be an official member of the pantheon. Podcast network pantheon. Podcast network is the first of its kind as an all music based podcast collective. Please be sure to check us out at pantheon. Podcast dot com for more info. Hello and welcome to the song facts. Podcast my name is corey. O'flanagan and i'm here to talk to you about well. You guessed it song facts. This is a podcast where we are going to be talking to artists about all sorts of amazing topics whether it's their songs the moments that shaped the musically or stories they have from their lives musicians so really no topic is off limits. We will have some names you will recognize and try and help introduce you to some that. You may not know yet as well. Everyone has a story to share. And we wanna help tell them all. Our aim is to give you the fan an insight into the minds and lives of these artists. But we won't stop there. We want chat with producers engineers our apps and people from all over the industry who can give us insight into how things were how they are and where they are going but mostly. We're going to talk about the songs. This podcast walks arm and arm with the amazing website. Song fax dot com. If you haven't been to the site and you are a fan of music. You must go has an abundance of information about songs artists. And just general good old fashioned fun music factoid for your ever inquisitive minds so join us every wednesday as we begin this journey down a path of creativity culture in personality. Maybe you'll learn something and find a new voice that makes you swoon with delight. So go ahead. hit subscribe. And let's enjoy this musical journey together. Issue back villain was. He was a revolutionary. The way that the way that elvis freed your body bob. Feed your mind. Bruce springsteen wants describe bob dylan. He had the vision and the town to expand the pop song. Until it did contain the whole world. We agree bub. Dylan about man and god and law a new podcast. On the pantheon podcast network tells the story of how bob dylan sparked a revolution of the spirit and why it matters. Were exploring history. Hardest st philosophy literature pop culture and religion woven through a deep. Listen to bob. dylan's music. Join us for a different theme each episode memory. He loves salvation teachers and many more in addition to conversations with thinkers and culture makers talk about god universe and everything in the age of dylan for more than half a century. Trying to understand. Bob dylan songs has been like unfolding the criss crossing lines of map of the world. We're going to take a shot at reading those maps particularly in a moment the world. We thought we knew. Seems like uncharted territory. Doping up our is dylan sings not only to see where we really are. Look to see where we need to go. I'm your host dr steven. Daniel arnav a scholar of religion. A lover music. And a student of bob dylan just like you. Listening subscribe at man. God law dot com pantheon. Podcast dot com. Or wherever you do. You're listening or proud to be a part of the pantheon podcast network. Join us for bob dylan about man and god and law.