20 Episode results for "Stanford Medical School"

The mental health benefits of storytelling for health care workers | Laurel Braitman

TED Talks Daily

10:53 min | 3 months ago

The mental health benefits of storytelling for health care workers | Laurel Braitman

"You're listening to Ted talks daily. I'm Elise Hu in the midst of this unprecedented global endemic. We're reminded how important are humans. Are Doctors Nurses and other medical professionals are in the business of saving lives? But WHO's hoping that? Has they face the unrelenting pressure of their jobs in today's top from Ted Twenty nine nine author and anthropologist Laurel introduces us to one effective way to make sure our healers stay healthy hint. It's not about their bodies. It's about their minds it. Susan David here. I'm a psychologist and the host of tastes new. Podcast checking in it. Show that office strategies for coping with our emotions during global pandemic. You can tune in now on apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you listen for the last few years I've been a writer in residence at the Stanford Medical School. I was hired by an incredible woman. A poet and an anesthesiologist named Audrey Shaffer and she started the medicine in the music program to reintroduce humanities back into medical education and training my job was to teach writing storytelling in general communication skills to physicians nurses medical students and other healthcare workers. And I thought I'd get a ton of great student essays about Dissecting Cadavers and poems about the spleen and I did but almost immediately I started getting more essays that made me really anxious and really worried. My students were writing about their crushing anxiety. The unbearable pressure on them to succeed their mental health diagnoses suicide attempts. How alone isolated? They felt an wondered if they'd gone into the right profession and they weren't even doctors yet. This is my student jury L. Sanchez the choice. You're in through medicine from a lot of your mentors even is like you have to choose like being really good person or a really good doctor. Physician's own humanity and emotional. Wellbeing almost never made a core part of their training or even acknowledged and real vulnerability like sharing certain mental health diagnoses for example can be absolutely career ending but nearly thirty percent of American medical students are depressed and one in ten have thought about suicide. And it's actually even worse for practicing physicians. There's really widespread job dissatisfaction. Depression and doctors have one of the highest suicide rates of any profession in the United States. This is scary. Not just for them but for us to I really think doctors have the most important job and if their lives are at stake are too now. I am absolutely not a mental health professional. I'm a writer which most days is absolutely the complete and total opposite. But I can tell you that the more opportunities that I give healthcare workers to show their daily frustrations their fears their joys. What surprises them? What they resent the better. They seem to feel so at medicine the Muse we offer evening. Weekend and daylong storytelling workshops at farms and other places with really good food I invite other journalists writers producers podcasters and poets and they teach writing communication in storytelling skills to our participants and those participants practice being vulnerable by sharing their stories out loud with one another and in doing so they reconnect what drew them to medicine in the first place. These are the skills. They'll draw on when they realize confronted with the stressful messy reality of the work. They've chosen this is how they realize it's a calling so. I have a prescription here for you today. It's not from physicians. It's for them and I asked my students for help and before I start let me just say I work with doctors. But I'm absolutely convinced that this applies to almost any profession especially those of us who are so committed to our work and it can be so intense and overwhelming that sometimes we forget why we chose to do it in the first place to me. Sharing a true vulnerable story is a lot like a flag up a flagpole other people see it if they agree with it and it resonates with them. They come and stand under it with you. That's my student microwave and Henrik did I mean it was super you inducing and I shared parts of myself that I really have probably told the classmates day was a baby. She had to have her leg amputated when she got the medical school. She was taking just a standard class quids and she got asked the question. Please tell us about the first time you encountered someone with a disability. She wondered if her supervisors had ever considered that. The person with the disability was hurt. The doctor so she talked about it in front of about a hundred of her friends peers. Which is a big deal. Because you know she's really shy and afterwards what happened. Is the number of students with disabilities. That she didn't know came up to her and asked her to Coley Group on campus. That's now advocating for more visibility and inclusion in medical training in English we tend to call people creatives if they have certain job like designer or architect or artists. I hate that term. I think it's offensive and exclusionary. Creativity doesn't belong to a certain group of people. A lot of my work with physicians and medical. Students is just reminding them that. Oh matter what profession that we choose we can make meaning find beauty in the hard stuff and create the medical student Pablo Romano. My parents emigrated here from Mexico many years ago and when I was in college they passed away. I was eighteen when my dad died. And then twenty when my mom died not only as. Pablo been talking publicly for the first time about being an orphan but together we started. Alive storytelling series. We're calling talk Rx. And it's become a really popular place for his peers to show their vulnerable and powerful thoughts and feelings. I go to a school that care so much. About data and research and numbers at that moves. People stories are phen- Rochman is a second year medical student and before she was born her parents immigrated from Bangladesh to the United States. She grew up in a really beautiful home in northern California various safe and stable. Her parents are still together. She never went hungry and she graduated from Harvard. I didn't feel like the stories I had worth telling or that they mattered. Fame did have stories though. Recently she gave a talk about being. Maybe the only Bangladeshi American girl to win an essay contest from the daughters of the American revolution and then dress up for Halloween as the declaration of independence. And I love our offense story so much because to me it represents all that is good and bad and hard and exhausting about representing the new American dream. The hardest thing was coming up against up boys. That was telling me no one wants to hear the stories like why invest the Thailand. The saying. That doesn't really mean anything in the grand scale five. Maybe it does. Life is so short for me. The only thing really that matters with my time here is feeling like I can connect with other people and maybe make them feel slightly less alone and and my experience. That's what stories do absolutely the best. So my student and a collaborator in a lot of these endeavors is candice Tim. She's an MD PhD student in Medical Education. She's written about me too in medicine navigating her queer identity and a conservative fields and her mom's metastatic cancer diagnosis and recently. She started also doing some really interesting research. About our work. We've seen bucks students who participate in our storytelling opportunities. Show between thirty six and fifty one percent decrease in distress if this was a mental health drug. It would be an absolute blockbuster. Results seem to last up to a month. It might be longer a month is just when candice stopped measuring so we don't even know not only that but one hundred percent of our recommend these opportunities to a friend for me. The most important thing that our work is done is create a culture of vulnerability in place that there was absolutely none before. I think what this does is that it allows doctors and other folks. An opportunity to envision a different kind of future for themselves and their patients. This is my teigen. I want beat the doctor. That remember is when your birthday is having to look at the chart and want to be doctor who knows what my patients were colored shows. They like to watch. I want to be the doctor. That's remembered for listening to people And making sure I take care of all of them not just treating their disease. Being human is a terminal condition. We all have it. And we were all going to die helping healthcare professionals communicate meaningfully with each other with their patients and with themselves is certainly not going magically change everything that is wrong with a contemporary healthcare system. And it's not. GonNa lift the immense burdens that we place on our physicians but it is absolutely key in making sure that our healers are healthy enough to heal the rest of US communicating with each other with vulnerability listening with compassion. Is I believe the absolute best medicine that we have. Thank you pay. Ted Talks daily listeners. I'm Adam Grant I host another podcast from called work life and it's about the science of making work not suck next time. He's career decline inevitable. It was a Iraq. It was a slow moving wreck in my in my career itself. I was in decline. Listen to work life with Adam grant wherever you get your podcasts.

writer candice Tim United States Adam Grant Pablo Romano Ted Twenty Ted Elise Hu Stanford Medical School Susan David Depression apple Spotify Laurel Ted Talks California
My funny, feisty, thoughtful, brave girl, by Lucy Kalanithi

Meditative Story

22:14 min | 7 months ago

My funny, feisty, thoughtful, brave girl, by Lucy Kalanithi

"Happy New Year from the team admitted of story. I'm Jay Jobe supervising producer to start twenty. Twenty we wanNA bring back Our very first from Lucy Kalaniiki the widow of Paul Kalaniiki growth. The New York Times bestseller when breath becomes air. If you've not listened listen to this episode before. We can't think of a more soulful way to start the new year. And if you have it's most certainly worth another listen next next week. We'll be releasing a new episode that we think you'll love all the best to you from us Seeing things just as they are has been one of the great lessons of my life. But it's something thing that I had to work at consciously for years the amazing thing about Katie. My Funny Feisty. Thoughtful brave girl is that that she does it effortlessly. She doesn't have anything to unlearn. Lucy Kalaniiki is an assistant professor of medicine at Stanford Medical School in California and the widow of poor calamity whose posthumous memoir when breath becomes there. I remember reading shortly after who is published in two thousand sixteen. The story HSIEH's with us here is very special. It's about how much wisdom delight there can be even when we're surrounded by. Yeah tragic loss when we see life and death. Through the eyes of a child is unburdened Oh now be oh guide for medicine doing a Some of the meditation plumps Shaggy. The story may work pretty wealthy others. Laisser pass okay. As we begin this episode I want to acknowledge salesforce and their sponsorship. Meditative story while you may know salesforce where its role. In bringing companies and customers together salesforce also works to improve the state of the world but shaving. The stories of leaders who are making positive changes ranges with great for them for making what you're about to hear possible the body relaxed the buddy breathing Your senses open your mind. Open meeting the wellness The drive from my house to the cemetery is less than ten minutes. I wind up the Santa Cruz Mountains and then come down just a little but on the other side but it feels like a very different place. The weather is different. This is the windward side of the mountain. And it's colder and more variable than where I live but today it's sunny and I can see five miles out all the way to the ocean. My emotions are different in here for me. The cemetery is always a physical place where I can feel my feelings. I can't always predict them before. I arrive sadness yearning credited remembrance. Today I feel calm I was a little stressed on the drive but the moment get out of my car and take my first breath the air on the side of the mountain my body relaxes. I hear the gentle sound of the wind. Uh The squeaky chattering of chipmunks I brought my daughter Katie with me to visit her father. She's four. There are things that children grow up into things like feeling part of a family belonging to a religion thinking that reading books is important loving animal's Katie will grow up into the idea of visiting a grave. She won't remember not knowing Paul is buried at the edge of the field facing down towards the ocean. I walked down the hill toward his granite gravestone. It's covered in nature Spray from the air that travels from the sea grass clippings bird droppings. The minerals left behind when water evaporates. I take out a rag and clean. Paul's gravestone until the Polish shines cleaning crave always feel so ancient ritualistic. Doc I sit down in the grass leaned my back against his gravestone and look out at the water. I breathe and I think and I feel Breathe think Phil Do you mind takes me to a moment here soon after Paul Katie was at the age where I took her everywhere in a baby. Bjorn carrier tucked close against my body. She slapped both of us. Still in the cemetery was the only place I could read easily and the first time Katie was able to walk down this hill. Herself without falling was a little under a year. After Paul died she was one and a half. MM-HMM I remember bringing Katie here on Paul's birthday when she was three. She asked if she could put stickers on Paul's gravestone. I hesitated briefly but I let her. It made her happy to stick sparkly hearts onto the Greystone and it made me happy. Place means different things to different people. We say that we're going to a place but it's remarkable how much we bring to that place without even thinking about it seeing things just as they are has been one of the great lessons of my life. But it's something that I've had to work at consciously for years the amazing thing about Katie. My Funny Feisty thoughtful. A brave girl is that she does it effortlessly. She doesn't have anything to unlearn to Katie. A cemetery he is not sad. It's just please go together like the park or the library. She loves coming here. She gets excited every time she gets to see a a deer or pick up a snail. We lie in the grass. We talk about Paul. We tell stories. One day I bring some flowers to put on his grave and Katie says. Can I plant flower garden. She picks up each tulip. Implants the one by one right into the ground. It's that kind of place. She knows that her father died or as grief experts. I tell you to explain to children that his body stopped working. She doesn't know that his body is buried a few feet underneath this very ground. She knows about death because sometimes BEESD I two and she finds their bodies. She doesn't know that people think of death as scary or sad mm-hmm things just are for her. What just is for you right now? ooh ooh mm-hmm one day Katie's preschool teacher asks her class to draw portraits of their families. I wonder if she'll draw the two of US me and her instead she she draws three people and labels them mom dad baby me. There used to be three of us together and now there are two of us. She knows that she knows. She has a dad but she knows she has to be a baby. If Paul's going to be in the picture that's just how it is. Things just are for for her or things just are not. I wish power here and I think a lot about what things would be like if he were. I miss his partnership ship. His Council raising a kid. I miss him physically. I now have a bed. That fits to people and I'm one person inside of it for me me. There's an empty space for Katie. Paul is an anchor. She drew that picture knowing. That's where she came from but at the same time and she not yearning for a different family one afternoon. Katie finds a little golden bell on our bookshelf with a threat on it and asks me what it is this. It's a party gift. We gave out at our wedding meet in India. And it's really beautiful. I say remember how I told you. About how daddy and I had this big party for or a wedding and all of our friends and family came to celebrate when we got married while we gave everybody a present. They all got to take home a bell like this one she immediately asks was I at that party. She's a kid centered in her own little world like all of us. I suppose I say EH. No you weren't even born yet. You weren't even a baby and she says Oh. Yeah that's because I was dead then my mind is blown. Katie knows people are either alive or dead. She doesn't know that death is often thought of scary or sad. She knows her a father used to be alive and now he's dead. She knows that she's now alive but that she didn't used to be and she knows that. For a brief moment she and enter. Dad overlapped as living people after she was born and before he died for me talking about Paul with Katie. It is part of my job as her mom for her sake and his I want to know his story and no. It's okay to ask ask about him. Every night. We read bucks before bedtime. I noticed that is developing a keen understanding of the characters. Doc Mick Stephen's pepe pig. Little P. One night I realized. That's what Paul is to her character. She's getting to know through stories stories for her third birthday. I make her a picture. Book called Katie. And her daddy it starts. Once upon a time there there was a little boy named Paul Collahuasi. Paul left cats and dogs and he loved to read. He wanted to learn new things and help people who are having a hard time mm-hmm so Paul went to school to become a doctor. It talks about US getting married and about Katie's birth Katie. Has Brown is just like Daddy. She adores cats and dogs in the middle. I described Paul's grave and there are pictures of it. The book says when Katie was still a baby. Daddy's body stopped working and daddy died to help remember Daddy. Mommy and Katie. Visit Daddy's grave. Sometimes the weather is sunny sometimes. It's windy sometimes. They feel sad sometimes. They feel happy. All of their feelings are okay. She knows that she never really got to know Paul but she's getting to know him through my stories the other day. She put onto mismatched shoes. And I ask her why and she said this is what me and my dad do. And she's right. My favorite memory of our time at the cemetery is when Katie and visit during the Mexican holiday of the day of the dead. This cemetery is relatively new. The people buried here are buried recently so the grave still get a lot of visitors. It feels like a community. In addition to a lot of Asian Americans like Paul. There are a lot of Mexican Americans ends when we arrive on the day of the dead. The first thing we see is a TACO truck with a line of people bright colored clothing and beautiful outfits. It's a Mariachi band. Adults and children get their faces painted in the traditional fashion to look like skulls which is so interesting to to see if you're not used to it festive joyful skulls. Dancing Thurs cemetery. It feels totally totally right. We Love Community and we love Tacos and we love being Paul's Grave Katie. I two tacos. Each we listen to the music and watch everyone celebrate. We walk over to Paul's Crave and sit and picnic. Katie gets a balloon and runs through the cemetery. It's a real contrast contrast acting like that in a cemetery but it feels totally normal natural to Katie. And I think she's the one who's right. I used to think it was me who knew more than my daughter that I had so much knowledge and so much to teach her that her understanding was just this little subset subset of Marin that came mostly from me but I was wrong. She sees things that I miss she so easily wed and then she leads me. She doesn't bring as many assumptions to situations. So it's easier for her to see them as yes. They are for her right now at this age. Things just are I hope I grow up to be more like her. AH WE'VE REACHED THE END of Lucy story in just a moment. I'll guide you through closing meditation. First though I want to again. Thank salesforce for their support. They believe the business of business is to improve the state of the world. We believe this to their sponsorship. Meditative story is part of sales forces commitment to highlighting stories that Shape Valley's crate our cultures and help us make sense of the world. There's so much to love about Lucy's story so much to be moved by and the aspect. The strikes me most is that. It's not a story about husband Paul. And his not being there it's a story about their daughter. Katie and how she is her instinct to be with whatever shows up and enjoy the freedom of life without the construction of assumptions norms. Running free with her balloon into the cemetery and her wisdom to discern between what is to be dead and what it is to be alive. It's a lot and to start meditation. Let's take a moment to check in with how we're feeling. We all have our own relationships with grief life and loss and Lee Story Mayor. Put up some stuff here. It's okay. Trust your instincts do what you need to do. And if feels okay. Let's acknowledge our feelings just as Lucy did if you like you can give them a name sadness tenderness blackness wishing whatever emotions are here. Just give them a name and if you think that help and it feels okay. Why not place a hand on your heart feeling your hand there and breathing actually take a few breaths connecting with what is happening few right now? The emotions the physical sensations Sion's we'll hold assumptions views ideas and it's through these that we filter the world. It's just the result is out of having a mind and living a life filters have their value in their place but the ones we carry around now the only ways of experiencing things let's be more like Katie. Let's be more direct. What's here for me right now? What's here is some com some interest? What's not here is sadness a little? While ago listening to lose his story. I felt a twinge of sadness us. But it's not here now. What's here for you and what's not here and can you be okay with the tool now? Let's keep connections alive. Is there someone close to you that you've lost and is there a story something about them that's made you how you are today for Katie. It's swerving mismatched shoes. If there's something like that for you bring it to mind and again if you like you can place a hand gently on your chest. Your hot things just are or they are not breathe. Think feel sometimes we feel happy. Sometimes we feel sad all of these feelings of Arcane We've reached the end of meditation. And I want to share with you now. A Mike quickstep inspired by a sponsor. SALESFORCE who makes mindfulness practices accessible to its teams around the world. The connections and the differences this between mind and body have been the staff of much discussion over the centuries and from a mindfulness perspective or in other words from the perspective of direct felt experience mind and Bordier described as being interdependent which is a word that I loved by the way and without making any statements about what mind and body actually are Besley that for the philosophers when we say that mind and body interdependent it means that they exist in relationship mind affecting body and body affecting mind and when we start to understand the nuances of that relationship we become able to Nacho experience using some simple tricks and techniques take for example when you're feeling being a tiny bit sluggish or low energy. Check your posture and see what you can do to raise up your head balanced lightly on an upright trite but relaxed spine and if possible with your chest open this kind of stable balanced. An open posture can be closely associated with energy brightness and alertness just a little movement to raise the energy in our posture can kick start some brightness us in our mood so why not give it to go when you need it next and with that simple action thank you to salesforce for supporting storytellers. Who opened to put up something within us? Who as Apollo energy storytellers? Who Know that? Change is possible meditative story as a Whitewater original in partnership with thrive global. The show is produced the studio inside as white partners. New York Executive Producers Devon trip. June Cohen Arianna Huffington and Dan. CATS PRODUCER USA is. Sabrina supervising producer is jive joppy. ACCUMULATOR is cary Goldstein original music and sound design is by the holiday brothers mixing. Mastering by Brian pugh special. Thanks to answer tax Juliana stone some Matatus Monica Madison. Odenberg Lindsey Pagnotta Connell Lipid you Smith and Sarah Santos Undying Gra creator of the meditation APP. And you'll have just visit meditative story dot com to find the transcript this episode.

Paul Katie Paul SALESFORCE Lucy Kalaniiki US supervising producer Paul Kalaniiki Paul Collahuasi Jay Jobe HSIEH Laisser Santa Cruz Mountains California The New York Times India assistant professor of medicin Stanford Medical School Lee Story Mayor Bjorn carrier
My funny, feisty, thoughtful, brave girl, by Lucy Kalanithi

Meditative Story

21:58 min | 1 year ago

My funny, feisty, thoughtful, brave girl, by Lucy Kalanithi

"<music> seeing things just as they are has been one of the great lessons of my life but it's something that i've had to work at consciously for years the amazing thing about katie. My funny feisty thoughtful fault brave girl is that she does it effortlessly. She doesn't have anything to unlearn lisa. Kalaniiki is an assistant professor of medicine at stanford medical school in california and the widow of poor calamity whose posthumous memoir when breath becomes <hes>. I remember reading shortly after his published in two thousand sixteen the story she shares with us. Here is very special. It's about how much wisdom and delight thank can be even when we surrounded by tragic loss when we see life and death through the eyes of a child is unburdened <music> <music>. Oh uh-huh and i'll be oh guide for medicine story. Aw some of the meditation comes shared you in the story may work really wealthy so others less so that's okay the experience you about to have exists because our sponsor salesforce believes in it deeply salesforce brings companies and customers together helping you deliver personalized customer experiences on one integrated platform. What you may not know is that equality is a core value of salesforce. They believe that businesses can be a powerful platform for change and that change starts inside ourselves elves all of us. How often do you move through your day without really noticing the people around you without really connecting with them. How often do you give others in the room space to respond too often. We move quickly without being mindful of the other voices but it's that mindfulness about al the people around you that create space for trust and connection needed to start making change later in the show. I'll share a micro action. You can take to spark this kind of change. Thank you salesforce for being apart meditative story in this most thoughtful way. The body relaxed the buddy breathing. Your senses open your mind open meeting. The world drive from my house to the cemetery is less than ten minutes. I wind wind up to santa cruz mountains and then come down just a little bit on the other side but it feels like a very different place. The weather is different. This is the windward side of the mountain and it's colder and more variable than where i live but today it's sunny and i can see five miles <unk> out all the way to the ocean. My emotions are different here for me. The cemetery is always a physical place where i can feel my feelings can't always predict them. Before i arrive sadness yearning gratitude remembrance <music> today i feel calm <music>. I was a little stressed on the drive but the moment i get out of my car and take my first breath of the air on the side of the mountain. My body relaxes risk. I hear the gentle sound of the wind and the squeaky chattering of things. I brought my daughter katie with me to visit her father. She's four. There are things that children grow up into things like feeling part of a family belonging into a religion thinking that reading books is important loving animals. Katie will grow up into the idea of visiting a grave <music>. She won't remember not knowing. Paul is buried at the edge of the field facing down towards the ocean. I walked down the hill toward his granite gravestone. It's covered in nature spray from the air that travels up from the sea grass clippings bird droppings the the minerals left behind when water evaporates. I take out iraq and clean gravestone until the polish shines <music> cleaning a grave always feel so ancient ritualistic. I sit down in the grass. Lean my back against his gravestone and look out the water. I breathe and i think and i feel <music>. Read <music> feel <music> to my mind takes to a moment here soon. After paul died. Katie was at the age where i took her everywhere in a baby. Bjorn carrier talked close against my body. She slapped both of us. Still the cemetery was the only place i could breathe easily. The first time katie was able to walk down. This hill herself without falling was a little under under year. After paul died. She was one and a half. I remember bringing katie here on paul's birthday when she was three. She asked if she could put stickers. On in paul's gravestone. I hesitated briefly but i let her it made her happy to stick sparkly hearts onto the greystone and it made me happy. A place means different things to different people. We say that we're going to a place but it's remarkable how much we bring to that place without even thinking about seeing things just as they are has been one of the great lessons of my life but it's something that i've had to work at consciously for years the the amazing thing about katie. My funny feisty thoughtful brave girl is that she does it effortlessly. She doesn't have anything into unlearn to katie. A cemetery is not sad. It's just a place we go together like the park or the library she he loves coming here. She gets excited. Every time she gets to see a deer or pickup a snail we lie in the grass. We talk about paul mm-hmm. We tell stories one day. I bring some flowers to put on his grave and katie says can i plant flower garden. <hes> she picks up each tulip implants them one by one right into the ground. It's that kind of place. She knows that her father died or as grief experts. Tell you to explain to children that his body stopped working. She doesn't know that his is not working. Body is buried a few feet underneath this very ground. She knows about death because sometimes seized. I two and she finds their bodies. She doesn't know that people think of death scary or sad. Things just are for her. Uh what just is for you. <music> <music> wedneday katie's preschool teacher asks her class to draw portraits of their families. I wonder wonder if she'll draw the two of us me and her instead she draws three people and labels them. Mom dad baby me. There used to be three of us together and now there are two of us. She knows that she knows. She has a dad but she knows she has to be a baby. If paul's going to be in the picture that's just how it is. Things just are for her or things. Just are not. I wish power here and i think inc a lot about what things would be like if he were. I miss his partnership his council raising a kid. I miss him physically. I now have a bed that it fits to people and i'm one person inside of it for me. There's an empty space for katie. Paul is an anchor. She drew that picture knowing that's where she came from but at the same time she's not yearning for a different family one afternoon. Katie finds a little golden golden bell on our bookshelf with red on it and asks me what it is. It's a party gift. We gave out at our wedding made in india and it's really beautiful. I say remember how i told you about. Daddy and i had this big party for our wedding and all of our friends and family came to celebrate when we got married while we gave everybody nia present. They all got to take home a bell like this one. She immediately asks. Was i at that party. She's a kid centered in in her own. Little world like all of us. I suppose i say no. You weren't even born yet. You weren't even a baby and she says oh. Oh yeah that's because i was dead then. My mind is blown. Katie knows people are either alive or dead. She doesn't know that death is often thought of as scary sad. She knows her father used to be alive and now he's dead. She knows that she's now alive but that she didn't used to to be and she knows that for a brief moment. She and her dad overlapped as living people after she was born and before he died and for me. Talking about paul with katie is part of my job as her mom for her sake and his <music>. I want to know his story and no it's okay to ask about him. Every night. We read books before bedtime. I noticed that kiedis developing a keen understanding of the characters doc mick stephen's pepe pig little p. one night. I realized that's what paul all is to her a character. She's getting to know through stories for her. Third birthday. I make her a picture book called katie and in her daddy it starts once upon a time there was a little boy named paul philosophy paul left cats and dogs and he loved to read and he wanted to learn new things and help people who are having a hard time so paul went to school to become a doctor it talks about us getting married and about oh katie's birth katie has brown is just like daddy. She adores cats and dogs in the middle. I described paul's grave and there are pictures cheers of it. The book says when katie was still a baby daddies body stopped working and daddy died to help remember daddy mommy katie visit daddy's grave. Sometimes the weather is sunny. Sometimes it's wendy. Sometimes they feel sad. Sometimes they feel happy. Be all of their feelings are okay. She knows that she never really got to know paul but she's getting to know him. Through my stories raise the other day she put onto mismatched shoes and i asked her why and she said this is what me and my dad do and she's right. My favorite memory of our time at the cemetery is when katie and i visit during the mexican holiday of the day of the dead. This cemetery is relatively new. The people buried here are buried recently so the graves still get a lot of visitors. It feels like a community in addition to a lot of asian americans like paul. There are a lot of mexican americans when we arrive on the day of the dead. The first thing we see is a taco truck with a line line of people break colored clothing and beautiful outfits a mariachi band adults and children get their faces painted in the traditional fashion shen to look like skulls which is so interesting to see if you're not used to it festive joyful skulls dancing cemetery it feels totally totally right. We love community and we love tacos and we love being paul's grave. Katie and i get two tacos. Each we listen to the music and watch everyone celebrate. We walk over to paul's crave and sit and picnic. Katie gets a balloon and runs through the cemetery. It's a real contrast acting like back in a cemetery but it feels totally normal and natural to katie and i think she's the one who's right. I used to think it was me who knew more than my daughter that i had so much knowledge and so which to teach her that her understanding was just this little subset of that came mostly from me but i was wrong. She sees things that i miss she. So easily wed and lynch leads me. She doesn't bring as many assumptions to situations situations so it's easier for her to see them as they are for her right now at this age incest on i hope i grow up to be more like her <music>. We've reached the end of lucy story in just moment. I'll guide you through a closing meditation after that. I'll show a micro action that you can take into your day inspired by the mindfulness is practices of our sponsor salesforce. There's so much to love about lucy's story so much to be moved by and the aspect that strikes me most is that it's not a story about husband paul and his not being there. It's a story about their daughter katie and how she is her instinct to be with whatever shows up and enjoy the freedom of life without the construction of assumptions norms running free me with a balloon through the cemetery and her wisdom to discern between what it is to be dead and what it is to be alive. It's a lot to start meditation. Let's take a moment to check in with how we're feeling. We all have relationships relationships with grief and loss and lisi's story mayor. Put up some stuff you. It's okay trust your instincts. Do what you need need to do and if it feels okay that's acknowledge our feelings just as lucy did if you like you you can give them a name sadness tenderness blackness wishing whatever emotions here just escape the my name and if you think it'd help and it feels okay why no place a hand on your heart feeling your hander and breathing actually take a few breaths here connecting with what is happening for you right now. The emotions the physical sensations we'll hold assumptions views ideas and it's through these that we filter the world. It's just the result of having a mind. Living life filters have their value and their place but the ones we carry around and now the only ways of experiencing things things. Let's be more like katie. Let's be more direct. What's here for me right now. What's here is some com. Some interest what's here is sadness a little while ago while listening to lose his story. I felt after twinge of sadness but it's not here now. What's here for you and what's not here and can you be okay with the tool. Let's keep connections alive. Is there someone close to you that you've lost and is there a story something about them. That's made you how you are today for katie. It's wearing mismatched shoes. If there's something like that for you bring it to mind and again. If you like you can place a hand hand gently on your chest. Your heart things just <hes> yeah. They are not breathe think feel. Sometimes we feel happy. Sometimes we feel sad all of these feelings failings of our k- it's all <music> <music> earlier. I mentioned how oh you can bring mindfulness tio connection with others. Uh sponsor salesforce practices mindfulness as an essential part of their culture. They've asked me to share one and powerful microscope. You can try to foster that connection it simple once a day consider someone else's perspective whether it's someone you tend to pass by or somebody struggle to feel connection with thinking about experiences can help you build a new relationship. Let go ova grudge or expand your own perspective. It can be as straightforward as asking yourself. What might this person be feeling and with that simple action. Gratitude goes out to salesforce for supporting storytellers who opened up something within us and spark the kind of positive change that cascades out into the world powerful perspectives shad through a story make change possible <music> <music> meditative story away twitter original in partnership with thrive global. The show is produced at the studio inside s wife partners in new york executive producers devon trip june cohen arianna huffington and dan cats producer is sabrina fine. You are supervising producer jibin. Jumping curator is cary. Goldstein original music and sound design is by the holiday brothers mixing mixing and mastering by brian pugh special thanks to an sex juliana stone some amortize monakali madison odin gordon book lindsey benoy to liberty smith easson and sarah san and i'm creator of the buddhist meditation and your host visit meditative story dot com to find the transcript this episode on the next episode of mischief story. You couldn't tell you why but <music>. I felt i knew this place. I knew it better than i knew the english word on which had been born <music> the apartment where i live now on twentieth street like a ho had been waiting. Thank you me too.

katie Paul salesforce santa cruz mountains lucy Kalaniiki stanford medical school california Daddy assistant professor of medicin Bjorn carrier iraq twitter supervising producer india mick stephen new york arianna huffington preschool teacher lynch
Providing All Children Access to Healthcare with Josh Golomb, CEO, Hazel Health

Outcomes Rocket

25:10 min | 11 months ago

Providing All Children Access to Healthcare with Josh Golomb, CEO, Hazel Health

"Welcome to the outcomes rocket podcast where we inspire collaborative thinking improved outcomes and business success with today's most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders and influencers and now your host so Marquez welcome Amac the podcast. Today I have the pleasure of hosting Josh Gholam. He's a CEO of Hazel Health Health Care Company. That's reshaping the pediatric landscape gape by offering all children access to free healthcare through in school virtual medical clinics Hazel partners with schools to improve student health and decrease absenteeism T- ISM by providing students with instant access to a network of doctors for speedy diagnosis and care plan. Josh is an experienced senior executive and has co founded the new healthcare enterprises and presided over several large organizations fostering tremendous growth as former CEO of direct primary care startup Palladino unhealth which raised one hundred sixty five million and was acquired by new enterprise associates in two thousand eighteen he has proven success in developing forward-thinking healthcare organizations while while delivering exceptional clinical and financial results which you all know that's the key cornerstone what we do here outcomes rocket outcomes and results else he's passionate for education and for engaging teams and partners in a vibrant patient centered culture that celebrates. Innovation Josh received both his Undergrad Brad an MBA from the Stanford University and it's with a letter that give Josh a warm welcome. Thanks for being on the podcast brother grabbed me saw those quite thank you hey well. It's quite the career my friend so I'm excited to dive into the details and what's on your mind and so to to start things. What is it that got you interested in healthy. You know it's interesting so I I was in college. When I went to college. I've sure I wanted to be docked and might I my family to you. Go to college and I got there. I was taking the science classes and I love them and then I had this experience so through Stanford Medical School. There was a program. I got to run bringing high school. Kids around the Abeer. We'd find kids are typically underserved areas that were really high potential. We'd bring them to campus for five weeks during the summer and the goal was to get the knicks versus science and hopefully get them to want to pursue the medical career and so it was one of those amazing experiences uses. I'd say the kids we work with impacted me in many ways more than I impact them and it got me excited. Amid me realize that you really passionate about healthcare. I was more passionate. Senate around the sort of system side the idea the setting is how can I get these amazing kids to get into the medical field bring their talents that was more exciting to even the idea of me being a physician myself and so that drove a lot of my career choices on the way of how do I act healthcare medical career from sort of a system in policy PERSPEC- trek love it man you know it's so interesting how that happens and and so here you are still continuing with that drive that mission to help our nation's ends youth through providing now healthcare to them. Access is a big problem so what's on your mind man. What do you think the the number one thing that needs to be on health leaders agenda today and how are you and your team as a health approaching it. I think that like I think broadly what are the things. I wish there were focused on is particularly. I'll say the underserved community spell talk about Medicaid recipients in particular is a lot of folks. It's about right now the US forty percents of all kids and I living up to the actress a lot but of all kids get their insurance through Medicaid or what's called chip and so so it's great that we have these kids that have ninety five percent of kids now have some kind of healthcare access and it also seems pains me that there's not more of a focus on that population and I I read a stat recently that last year they're seven billion dollars words that poured in from the capital firms from healthcare systems up their companies in big bucket of digital help but he actually pull apart the data so little that is focused on underserved populations and a lot of that focus on people who assumption that folks were well-off. Alah Middle and Upper Class folks and it's interesting because it was both huge need and we spend most of our days are spent working with kids from all parts of the country who really need access to health care collect. The data shows that ninety five percent of those families the parents have smartphones and are clamoring for healthcare more ways to access but Lisa Whoa I said I don't see as much investment of these meeting new technologies and people that could probably most benefit from that and that's stuff that I get excited. I should say forcing racing We are seeing a big movement of other great organizations out there that are starting to focus there but that's where I is this idea of could help nations beat focused August. All Americans not just those that could have the upper cheers yes. I think that's a great call out and I think it's fascinating. The approach that you guys are taking so you're you're taking a a platform which is a school and this is where kids are and you're you're. You're quickly accessing these kids and giving them access through telemedicine so I'd love to hear from you josh some of the early results things going and maybe even an example of how you're recreating results by doing it differently yeah yeah and and if so if you don't mind quick story. I will story that guides a lot of my work and so I've got three sons times my oldest one gave now fourteen but when you're my wife and I went through experience with gave our purse when he was eighteen months old hung found out his death and so it's turns out that my wife and I both have this recessive g productiveness connection twenty six. We didn't have any idea we'd have eaten during our family but all of a sudden we found out at our first child at first time through this parenting thing that one of our her son couldn't hear an so hugely challenging you know as you can imagine. I I side air and this whole experience we had over the next six months of trying to figure out favorite understand that European try to navigate our health insurance. I had a navigator county public services and into gave catastrophe. We ended up getting him. Cook Ler Lance and it was it's a long make it sound simple. There's a really long journey for him to get to where he is. Now which is eating amazing is about to go into a school high school getting straight as and the kid is my absolute hero. Oh Man Yeah but I should the story because when my wife and I were going through this no we're both a well educated. We had good insurance. we spoke the language and it was really really hard to navigate the healthcare system even with great providers out there. Maybe feel so thankful that there is great physicians audiologist speech therapist navigating that system was so incredibly hard and there were a few times along the way but we were at places like county services that you get and we'd be in the room with other other parents and I remember to stealing my gosh. This is so hard for us to get what we need and we're like coming place of privilege. It's it's we know what to do to access it and if we he didn't speak the language we didn't upgrade insurance. You know the trajectory would be much different. It's a lot of the work that drives me. I think part of the Hazel Culture is like how do we make picture that everyone has access to great care and has a way to get connected in Sobat great providers that are out there and make sure that the system is an enabler editor for people being healthy so it's quick digression disarm because he shared at Josh because it's real I mean you know it's real and I and I know that a lot of people listening listening can identify with that. It's we're all in the same boat and so I appreciate Sharon it yeah no Q. and so what's interesting. Is We enroll kids into. Hazel near one of the things that we do is we ask for Families Convention background information. Get the medical history but we also get some data on how the current experience instead of healthcare is and what's interesting to be asked who their primary care doctors are. I should say I'm a huge believer in the importance of primary care and everyone I think we'd like every person virtually every kid to have a local primary care Docs. You're the primary care. Physicians Are Heroes in the folks who spent a lot of times supporting care and sadly people leap enroll these families typically Medicaid only about fifty percent of them. Tell us today that they have a primary care doctor. Even though they may have access through their insurance may even been assigned find some other insurance and so a lot of the work would be imagined doing day. One is how to be every help bring that fifty percent broadly into the healthcare system. How do we give them in a great healthcare experience and give their kids access to Care Saul some problems right there and then for them but then also hopefully connect themselves local doctor time that can also help Dr. Make sure that they're getting the local care that they needed so that's a lot of built around doing is. How do you make sure that things that all kids need but particularly kids are under Sir can get access to in school every day. Yeah and I think that's a great call out and frankly when you take a look at the social determinants of health transportation being one of them accesses assesses is mainly to do with. How do I get them there. Without missing a day of work to miss I rent payment right so it's hard to navigate and it's hard to work so tell me you guys have are having some early success. But what are some of the setbacks you've had that you learn from that of major better. I think that the US like so much of the learning unaccompanied a couple bucks the first one is how do we really partner with schools and be great partners for them at Indian schools mostly when they think of schools. Do you think of art teachers that were hard for kids but there's also this all these other rape folks in schools that are already doing things way before. Hazel ever got balls. Let's get school nurses that often like superheroes on the front line working with both kids and their families there. There's this you know hopefully schools social workers were there dialed in and it's interesting because that that term social determinants out the big believer of sometimes the people talk about it in the abstract when you when you're working in a school setting all that stuff is like front and center and it's all the stuff. The school staff is navigating navigating through advocate. The kids who may have food insecurity may kids who qualify for the Free Breakfast Program Free Lunch program into whether or not they're able to access for dealing with the students that may be foster you there are homeless and so in the school setting a US when the biggest learnings. How do we start with point of this. All this work already happening. How do we support them. used both our providers technology to help them make more progress and connect the dots and get them access to resources they app today so that's down on the partnership side and then with families and they got a lot of the work to be doing also just to realize that like to make sure that we are operating for place of where they are having been in healthcare for a long time but think about this. We have a tendency to want after every single visit to solve some big problem for for a patient or a family and it's interesting because some of the families you work with especially those that haven't beauty had rate access to health care will find that like some of the first couple things is going to do with the Sandman were singer kids. It's just like just make their life easier so like the example you gave of like. It's hard enough for me apparent to get out of work to get my kids when they're sick and I have relatives scheduled flexibility but if you're paid paid hourly your boss is upset if you'd be you know it's it's. It's really hard a lot of parents to get get their kids from MM school. Let alone be able to get an appointment that same day and it was generally work with like just like the Times interact with them. Just like Bergamo solve that problem for make sure your your kid was seen. Hopefully they're helping actually find that kids are when they show up the office about ninety percent of the time. We're actually able to keep them in school that there. It's clinically the appropriate so they can stay. They're getting more education. It's great for them academically to have that academic time and it's so much easier for the family and refined as we saw that that is really important a really simple issue that for the same families when maybe later on this more complicated issue we need to work through them with that they trust us and they see us as an advocate in that we're trying to we're trying to help them and not just where they need to be helping on disobedience assaults attitude callout Josh at this point you you guys are operating just in California or have you expanded beyond. Yes we're in today. We're in California Nevada and Arizona the about fifteen thousand kids on service right now. GotTa come to Chicago Man. Anything I can do to help. Let me know we would love to be in Chicago well. Let's definitely chat after this Any anything that we can help you with is definitely a big deal. 'cause you're doing some great things. What would you say one of your proudest leadership. Experiences dances has been to date with the company. You know it's funny because an I think the things that I was combination of analytical brain in the very individual case brain the data we we get data back schools because they're looking at how as in Pakistan so at this macro level view will have the proceeding about forty percent reduction in health related absenteeism from our partners and so when I get that data and all the is a ton of data out there that shows at absenteeism in attendance is correlated with academic performance graduation rates. No even metrics like incarceration rates that children's attendances in it's sorta commonsense but what's interesting is even look at its midst rates things kindergarten those play out in fourth grade reading and writing scores even when attendance gets better later in life visby early on is a big driver. I get fired up about that because I think about like system level impacts of kids having more access to school the honestly to stop driving home night. See My kids at night and tell them stories about work. It's always like Indi individual stories and so like just this week in this great story from our providers where Earl and one of our schools third-grader always been doing really well school last month's things taking a turn. I'm having some behavior issues in the school as- cystic and again engaged and also it's the things are showing up. This physical symptoms provider spent we had a good chance of spending fifteen twenty twenty minutes with physical assessment but also ask a bunch of some health screen well child visit sort of questions and uncovered a bunch of stuff that was is going on outside of a school setting that was playing out in you know in phys helping and how she was doing school and the ability to talk to that was interesting. We're doing this in partnership with the school nurse and the social worker 'cause you're also trying to triangulate and it we uncover details uncovered some stuff that was pretty important going on girl's life and then we're able to partner with the nurse and social worker to get her new family the services that she needed and then the feedback that we got from from the parents go from school site which is awesome is something that they have been a few steps bear able to get an at the child's already doing. John reports that she feels goes far better that she was able to share some of this getting some of the help that she needs and that to me is like this girl could be your daughter. Anyone's daughter like that's the stuff that honestly gets me the most. I fired up about the work that I do. Is that little stories that we know that make up the big data ch- yeah that's huge dash and you know the thing that crossed my mind to is like suicide suicide thing that these kids go through and the pressures when you get into these social environments as as a as a young youngster. I it's definitely definitely a impactful work that you guys are up to yeah. I'd say that's this piece in mental behavioral health for kids. It's it's hugely important right now. In luckily this interesting people focused more energy there with that a district say the name earlier last month and decides district's they'd already had eight suicide besides a high school district eight suicides the school year and I just this crazy and a lot of focus. We need to have as a country and how do we make sure that were new understanding causes but particularly connecting kids who need it to the services that they need man. That's for sure I was listening to do a podcast the other day how I built this every year that podcast I have one of the guys he was interviewing some rapper forget. The rappers names like this is going to show how bad I I am like music but but the guy had a saw oh the guy's name was logic and this song and the name of the song is actually the suicide number like the suicide line number. Oh interesting yeah I was like I was really inspired by it so the thought is hey man. Maybe I should reach out the logic and do a little thing with them. 'cause that'd be Kinda. Cool anyways side note real in it back in totally great things it'd be proud of. What's an exciting exciting project. You most fired up about today. Actually it's it's totally connected to the point is brought up which is which is how do we start to integrate what we do in this sort of physical space and mental behavioral health it so we've been working with the number of districts to you. Some of them have already been trying to figure out things trying to tackle it for the first time but so much especially for kids getting the truth for all of us so much of mental behavioral health and physical health is connected. There's a lot of data that shows things work together and so I'm excited. How do we actually build that more in our model boasts boast screening tools but then also the ability to connect to other specialists these as kids mini dachshunds to 'cause there's still amid is both the identification of kids that meeting access to services for there's also then in the referral process and there's still a lot of stigma for all families around how to access these services and so the hope is that will be able to show that you can deliver you can bring more of those services using technology technology like we do for Hazell to kids in schools and so I'm excited that will very soon housing programs up running to assess can be can make a big impact in this area and that's exciting exciting man good for you? I I think it's a it's a great area attack all and it's becoming more and more of a focus for insurance companies for providers and also so companies providing services like this so Kudos to you and your team. I always think of a Rene Descartes. He says I think therefore I am. It's integrated my friend. Dick hurt and logic in the same like three minute period one of those morning morning. Bhai hits good. It's good so this is the part of the podcast Josh where we do a lightning round and then we follow up by a book that you recommend the listeners ready yeah. Let's go all right. What's the best way to improve healthcare outcomes improve healthcare access. What's the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid ad say need to focus on the technology or the innovation as opposed to the patient themselves. How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant to change I think honestly the listening particularly to your patients that also your partners and making sure that very easy bound building companies to get so focused on what you're we're building and not so much what people are telling you they need wise words what twenty area of Focus that drives everything in at Hazel health it Hazel help it's all about the kids and may end their families and making sure there were always grounded every single day love that and I've got to nuance here one of them. I'm is what is your number. One Health Habit ooh health habits. That's a good question. I think the biggest thing I'm trying to build in for myself is actually actually make sure that I actually take quiet time. Actually someone die spend a lot of time on my own time on planes for work at I always used to only get work done on planes and very wise person told me is that's one place no one could reach you to make sure that you always take at least thirty minutes of quiet reflecting time and so from a from a wellbeing respective that thirty minutes forty are trump in that. I had time on planet take thirty minutes and that's been incredibly important quiet time for me and I try to build by commuting out with chewed from work. That's great in what do you do with the quiet time. Josh do you just meditate you journal a mix of both or what do you do for me. I've found that I I personally like it reading something short and then acting or listening to podcasts or or listen just listen to music but something that triggers self reflection selection and then making the time. I would say that I don't do this perfectly. I actually journal something down the rights of That's the best way for me to turn it into action but I'm only I'm only by. I twenty five percent of the time likely. Heke turning the writing but it's good to have quiet now. That's awesome man. It's a good practice and what would you say is your number one success habit who gosh good question number one success habit. I think the best thing that I do that ended up when I like the thing that always grounds me is yeah similar to listen to patients actually we have a provider huddles all the the doctors and gays and NP's worker Hazel they get together every morning and they're talking the group like specific clinical cases and what they're doing and it is really easy in my role to get so caught up lengthening the meetings and talking odd cast the talking about the world is on the one doing it and the best thing that idea yesterday by store. I gave keep is just shut up and listen and you're what's really happening sitting in the field and the questions sometimes it's great story. Sometimes it's finding out like think that was brilliant innovation that providers hate. It isn't actually working. It's not actually solving a problem in so I'd say shutting up and listening is the best thing I can do and I should do. It more often love that that's great and what what could you recommend the listeners. Josh thinks I ton of books that I love. I'd say the one book that I brought back to every company that I've build. This company called A book called Five dysfunctions. It's Patrick Lynch. Yoni and it's just a super you've ever read it before a haven't it super simple kind of book you can read in like showers. It's sort of like cheesy fable all around it basically team-building this this parable durant like what does it take to build a team and so I every company that led be Giradi review it every year or so and then there's instead of five principles that drives effective teamwork and will usually reassess sesser cells but it's it's always simple good grounding for what it means the bill the storm team love that great recommendation is definitely on my list now. Josh Josh I appreciate that and listeners put on yearly to it sounds like a great one if you are a leader of an organization which most likely you're listening to this. You are so so outcomes rocket dot health in the search bar type in Josh Gallon G. O. L. O. M. and the company's name is Hazel Health doing some outstanding anything for the Nations Children Josh. This has been an awesome discussion and definitely afford to follow in you guys what would be a your closing thoughts and in the best place listeners could learn more about you and your company Yeah might disclosing that is like I think I'm so excited to see so many elderly all the people getting into both healthcare education it's been it's fun for me to see how many people have been re investing getting into this that didn't happen and twenty years years ago so I just love people you're my biggest push should be people that passion excitement to pursue that said you know whether that's something like Hazel or something else else to follow that Ashen growing Hazel with more people that are excited to work with us and our partner this on the outside so my email address since is Josh at Hazel Dot Co dot co Dot Com but would love to meet other people excited being great work in healthcare and for kids in particular outstanding Josh and Folks Take Josh up on that in might reach out to him anytime and you could find his contact info obviously he just gave it to you but but also in our show notes so make sure you check out the episode on the Website Jazz a true pleasure my friend. Thanks so much for sharing your your wisdom on this his front. Thanks how great to meet you. Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening to the outcomes rocket podcast these we should have visit us on the web at W._W._w. Dot Outcomes Rocket Dot Com for the show notes resources inspiration and so much more.

Josh Josh Access partner Hazel Hazel Health Health Care Compa US Josh Gholam Stanford Medical School Stanford University Marquez CEO Abeer knicks Josh Gallon G. O. L. O. M. Senate Chicago Hazel Health Bergamo
SPECIAL EDITION: CORONAVIRUS: Dr. Laura Kasper on the Relationship Stress Test

Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose

14:30 min | 4 months ago

SPECIAL EDITION: CORONAVIRUS: Dr. Laura Kasper on the Relationship Stress Test

"Hi this is Malayan verve here and this is Kim as early. We are co authors of the book fast forward how women can achieve power and purpose, and you're listening to Seneca women, conversations on power and purpose brought to you by the Seneca, women podcast, network and iheartradio. Welcome to this special edition. During these difficult times, we're talking to experts who can help us gain perspective on the impact of the corona virus, as well as share tips, resources, and some much needed inspiration today. I'm joined by Dr Casper Dr. Casper is a San Francisco based psychologist and an adjunct. Clinical Faculty member at Stanford Medical School welcome to the show. Well You know it's an unusual time, but we. Do. as And you know we have kind of Hindu living arrangements pretty much knew everything for a lot of people so due to the corona virus obviously people are spending more time at home with their families more than ever and so This probably could be a tough time for intimate relationships, are you? Are You finding that? Mean what I'm seeing is twenty four seven time at home with her, and is basically putting magnifying glass on our differences. How Coq you know how we cope with fear, uncertainty, and figuring out of control in general and specifically the threat to seeking health I was gonna say you puts magnifying glass on our own, our own weak points as well as I. Mean when I was GonNa say to you know it's highlighting the ways that we've been meeting our needs outside our relationships, you know in good ways like going on the gym, meaning our friends and our act macaulay, all those things that are good ways eating are being an impertinence, but it also Shino as that that maybe we've been avoiding dealing with pinching our relationship by going outside sometimes, so so those engines are present right now I think than before. And how are you finding? People are coping with that kind of new reality. They're coping. You're a lot of different ways. I mean. It it generating attention than I've ever seen before I. Mean I think people are. You know I think people are being creative. They're they're. They're realizing that they're not seeing their friends, or they're not seeing their colleagues to work, so they're trying to schedule a little bit more. Talk Time with a friend or you know with a happy hour where we get on video I mean I can see there's ways if people really coping creatively, and and in in physical environments where I mean some people have the luxury of having bigger space, but some have pretty small spaces. How do you create space? When you're living a tiny space. How do you create that mental space? Yeah, you know I think that. I think the biggest thing is I've been helping people with is. Is this time to develop a relationship that sell here? And and so fearing resentments right now are kind of a gift, and it's a gift to help me to. Pay attention to what are we feeling? And what are we meaning for ourselves? And and so 'cause ask ourselves do do I need to take a walk through I mean to do I need to. There's WanNa Room. Do I need to go into the bathroom into? Have a moment by myself, but you're actually creating some of those physical barriers tearing your partner. You know that you need a real time like yeah. I'M GONNA go out on the bed, and I'm just GonNa take a break or I need to go me. Or write in my journal or do something you know using using sitting in the car I mean that's actually been I've had a lot of clients therapy sessions in the car. Asking your partner to put on noise canceling headphones and versus or something you know even if they're in another room to create kind of Primesee has also been something I've Read I've seen people do both with their sessions that also with with meetings you know what people are realizing like how often they're partners, meanings, and just even having somebody talking in the at the same time as you can be, can be agitating, just trying to keep their nervous system a little more activated right, and then you add kids to the mix and that. People are home schooling, and that's a whole, new dynamic and apparently home. Schooling's pretty hard so. People have a profound new appreciation for teachers. Absolutely absolutely, yeah, the definite empathy that my clients to have children have been profound. That's an interesting point because you were saying that it's really important to sort of get to know yourself better and start this new relationship with yourself and kind of understand what you need in a guest. It's also probably a great time to try to have a little empathy for your partner and put yourself in their shoes. and see you know see what's going on with them as well. Oh I mean you know Bryn pension is coming up. You know if we stay in our. You know I'm right. You're wrong. Position about this going to to make a fight burst or just going versus you know action this as an opportunity to learn something about your partner is generally whistles how they're feeling and what their concerns are and treat them with respect in conversation. It's really up in the embassy game right now I. Mean That's GonNa turn differences into into a blessing right now to have any kind of tips or tricks how to diffuse the situation when it started to escalate because I know there's there's an easy opportunity when everyone's under so much stress. Actually I mean you know I think when accurately hear happened? That thing really timeout just as much as kids. Do you know I mean I, think sometimes. We don't like that, but it's true. It's. True, you know, and so I think the best way to get a great name it and just agree like. Let's just take a break. Let's just you know are so ten or fifteen minutes or come back with tomorrow. We not. That is the single best way to de. Escalate any kind of situation. I mean one one thing that I've heard couples to. For people do is is offering just like. Music and just check this out there's. Change the mindset right? Just like how fun in this moment. And maybe they come back to the conflict in them moment, or maybe they'd call, but just kind of changed. The energy is really important, so you're on a really interesting piece for the bold Italic that gives some relationships tips dealing with Kobe. Nineteen and one of your tips is to have some fun. Which I think what you're alluding to. How can you build that into your kind of schedule and do you recommend schedules I? Do recommend schedule. Yeah, I mean I think that I think that we enter A. Kind of depression anxiety, literature I mean you know we all do better with the schedule and we see this in kids, right kid, do better with Gasol, and so when we're under great around his chest. We needed to so go. I think schedules are important. I think what building in fun and building and say. It's an attitude, right? It's the it's a choice say we're going to make this incredibly stressful. Fearful kind that that had a lot of having a lot of negative consequences, Global Rini nationally, and even in some of our friends and families, but like inland in the moments in life. Taking, the attitude of trying to bring some lightness or play in where we can here is is what we what we have control over. but but you know but I don't after the run a I that that for some people the idea of trying to bring fun when they are born to the hospital or something or something, it's actually really. Doctrine job stressed out about their jobs like it's not an easy to do. It's not easy to I. Mean you're kind of getting to the heart? which is that these are really uncertain, unusual and very very hard times for most people. Are People I should say and so how do you deal? I mean in with that level of stress, not just with your partners, but is there. Is there something that you're recommending in terms of stress management? You know you know. I think the biggest seeing that I. I'm trying right now and then I'm tried to encourage. My concern is that we are all scared and feeling out of control, and it's got. That is generally. Everyone's being fined right now and that kind of fear and powerlessness. NEGREE translate into getting controlling or fearing Christian or feeling hunting all sort of kneeling negative car stuff book with ourselves and others. And so you know the answer. Go right now is just compassion. You know compassion for sounds. Remembering that weird scared, we're doing on control and you know. When we look at our partner, we look at our kids are calling just remembering that you're kind of seeing it through. There is the same thing they're hearing like all feeling nine trying to remember that together. I think that's. Medicine right now. That's wonderful and I think that's so much in line with what we feel at Seneca, which is that if we could, even if we could do something one little small thing for someone that actually can change dimensional. Feeling the way you're looking at the world, and so it's so hard to to get out of what's going on right now, but I think what you're saying so important that compassion and kindness towards yourself towards others. Towards the humidity, I think I heard billing rate example of someone who just little things that people can do for example. Someone was ordering takeout for people who didn't necessarily have enough to. You know enough to eat. Really because so many people are struggling right now and to support the local restaurant and to support people I mean there's so many ways that you can help a neighbor or help something to help you really. That's right. That's right. Yeah, we, we can kill good because gird when we're. Expressing compassion whether that's just expressing concerns and motion really or just you know calling somebody with some caution persons navy, keeping a compassionate action at all. Is All teams after well. We'll be back after this break. So if you make it through this with your partner, do you feel like you'll be well on your way for the for the next chapter? Yeah I mean I. Think we all right I mean. I think I think it's really an opportunity to upper level ourselves and our relationships that way you know, it's time for great stuff that we. Kind of who we are, and what we're meaner than, and what the if we can grow from the challenges burn. Hopefully we're all. So true I heard someone early on say, which I thought was kind of funny, but it. It actually resonated with me. They said, listen this either going to be corona divorce or Corona Romance. We're going to have to decide whether it's going to be. Maybe being attentional help, have you found people kind of trying to work at their relationships every day and make that a priority Are you recommending that as well? Yeah, you know I definitely. Am I mean that I'm. Her whole without the distractions of. Work and leaning I should say there's there's still working but home weaving and traveling and all those things it's like getting together. It is an opportunity to you know work on both relationships, yourselves and our partners I think it's a huge opportunity Yeah. So I. AM couples I? Mean I think I think we're also hearing your little bit of the. People are also feeling pressure to kind of. Personal growth and optimize personal growth while we've got all this time earns so I'm definitely not encouraging people to sort of push themselves too much, you know. What what's the deal will? What's possible? It's an opportunity. Heal right. Taking doesn't don't don't work too hard. We're under a lot of stress right now, trying to hear. During what work and not let not with much in such good advice, well, it's wonderful to talk to so what what makes you optimistic in this moment? Talking about you know I think that lean rare in a culture that encourages us to outside or Seltzer validations helmet out the next promotion, the next instagram posts which leads a lot of people in my office door you know, and while there's so much fear and worry invulnerability that we're all right now. I'm optimistic. Because slowing down because of world, war distractions we, it's giving us the gift of time and then full face. To work on these relationships, and and from my perspective, this needs to improve the one relationship that's actually even mental health, which is the one with ourselves kind of reevaluate what you value what you're doing and how you're living your life now. Being well, thank you so much. It is so great to have you on the show. We appreciate everything doing to help. Couples get through this difficult period Is there a way? Listeners can learn more about your work after. Yeah, you can find me roaring at www dot. Dr Laura after therapy SF DOT COM fantastic. We hope to have you on the show again, and we hope you are or stain well and staying safe. Thank you very much. For Mexico. You're listening to Seneca. Women conversations on power and purpose. Brought to you by the Seneca Women Podcast, network and iheartradio. With support from. FOUNDING PARTNER PNG. Listen to Seneca women conversations on power and. On the iheartradio APP. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And please support this podcast by telling your friends subscribing and rating us. For more information on Seneca, women follow us on social media. visit our website Seneca women. Dot Com and check out the Seneca women. APP free in the APP store have a great day.

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Democracy Now! 2020-03-13 Friday

Democracy Now! Audio

59:02 min | 5 months ago

Democracy Now! 2020-03-13 Friday

"From New York. This is democracy now anybody that needs a desk. It's a test. They have to tell anybody that needs cast gets a test says the president of the United States. That's simply untrue. There have been just eleven thousand tests in the United States so far since the corona virus outbreak began. Compare this to nearly twenty thousand tests for Corona virus every day in South Korea alone the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease says the. Us is failing when it comes to testing for the virus. The idea of anybody getting it easily the way people in other country doing we're not set up for that. I think you should be yes. But we're not today. We look at how the trump administration has failed to account for what it'd be thousands of corona virus infections because of ongoing problems with access to testing. We'll speak with professor. Justin Leslie of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Senior author of a new study that suggests the median incubation period for the new corona virus is about five days and epidemiologist. Dr Steve Goodman at Stanford Medical School Associate Dean of the School. Both are holding classes online for the rest of the porter over concerns about the outbreak. And yes Dr. Goodman is my brother all that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now democracy now dot. Org the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. The Corona virus pandemic is continuing to spread across the globe. According to the World Health Organization Corona virus has now infected over one hundred thirty five thousand people and killed nearly five thousand. Kenya and Ghana have confirmed their first corona virus cases. India's reported its first corona virus death. The death toll in Italy has surpassed one thousand while the country's medical system struggles to treat the sick. Meanwhile satellite photographs have been published online showing what appeared to be mass graves in Iran. Where Corona virus victims have been buried? The official death toll in Iran is around four hundred twenty nine but many fear. The actual number is far higher France Ireland Austria Belgium. Turkey and Norway have all begun taking steps to close schools to stop the spread of the virus here in the United States. The number of reported corona virus in factions jumped by nearly four hundred Thursday to about one thousand six hundred fifty but the actual number is believed to be higher congresses. In House. Doctor has privately told Capitol Hill staffers that he expects seventy to one hundred fifty million people in the United States will contract the virus. Six states have announced plans to close all public schools. Oregon Ohio Michigan Maryland Kentucky and New Mexico schools in Houston Texas near Seattle are also closing. Almost five million. Children are being impacted by the closings own major sporting events in the United States have been halted the NCWA has cancelled for the first time. Ever the men and Women's College Basketball tournaments known this March madness Utah Jazz player Rudy. Gobert has apologized after testing apologised after testing positive for corona virus. Just days after. He jokingly touched reporters microphones and phones while leaving a news conference Monday go bare wrote quote. At the time I had no idea I was even infected. I was careless and make no excuse. I hope my story serves as a warning and causes everyone to take this seriously unquote Disney has shuttered all of its theme parks around the world including Disneyworld and Florida. New York state has banned public gatherings of more than five hundred people including all Broadway shows on Thursday New York City mayor. Bill de Blasio declared a state of emergency as the number of confirmed cases in New York jumped from forty two to ninety five in a single day but the last twenty four hours have been very very sober literally yesterday morning. Feels like a long time ago We got a lot information. The course of the day yesterday a lot changed and then last night it does seem like the world turned upside down in the course of just a few hours on Wall Street. The Dow Jones Industrial Average plummeted ten percent Thursday in its biggest drop since one thousand nine hundred eighty seven airlines and cruise companies have been particularly hard. Hit major international cruise lines including Princess cruises and Viking suspended operations. President Trump's ban Europeans flying into the United States from twenty six European countries goes into effect midnight tonight. The stock market losses came despite the Federal Reserve injecting about one point five trillion dollars into the financial system in an effort to prop up. The market's former Labor secretary. Robert Reich tweeted total student. Loan debt one point seven trillion total cost of the Fed's short-term bank funding one point five trillion America has socialism for the rich harsh capitalism for everyone else Reverend William Barber of the poor people's campaign tweeted overnight. They found one point five trillion dollars for Wall Street but they can't find money to provide healthcare and living wages for one hundred forty million poor and low wealth people in America the trump administration's facing widespread criticism for its handling of the corona virus outbreak on Thursday. Dr Anthony Fauci. The Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said the. Us is failing when it comes to testing for the virus. The system does not is not really geared to what we need right now. What you are asking for that is a failing and it is a failing very. Let's admit the idea of anybody getting it easily. The way people in other countries are doing it. We're not set up for that. Do I think we should be yes? But we're not the BBC reports nearly twenty thousand. People are being tested for Corona virus every day in South Korea. Far More than the eleven thousand tests done in the United States since the outbreak began months ago on Capitol Hill House Speaker. Nancy Pelosi said she's close to reaching a deal with the White House on a corona virus aid package that includes funding for temporary paid sick leave and free virus testing on Thursday democratic congresswoman. Katie Porter of California grilled Centers for Disease Control Director Robert Redfield on the affordability of Corona virus. Testing Dr Redfield. Do you want to know who has the colonel virus? In who doesn't yes not just rich people but everybody might have the virus. All of America will you commit to the CDC right now using that existing authority to pay for diagnostic testing free to every American regardless of insurance. Well I can say that we're going to do everything to make sure everybody can get the time Dr Redfield. You have the existing authority. Will you commit right now to using the authority that you have vested in you under law that provides a public health emergency for testing treatment exam isolation out cost? Yes or no what? I'm going to say I'm going to review in detail with no in more news. On the corona virus. The press secretary of Brazilian President Sharable Sonata has tested positive for cove in nineteen. The official was photographed last week standing shoulder to shoulder with president trump and just a few feet from vice president. Mike Pence during both Sinatra's recent trip tomorrow Lago and Florida the official is also seen standing just behind trump and video taken at the meeting at trump's mar a lago resort South Carolina. Senator Lindsey Graham. Who was at the Mar? A LAGO meeting says he will self quarantine while awaiting the results of corona virus test. So we'll Florida senator. Rick Scott who met separately with Bolsonaro and the eight on Monday the White House however said President. Trump does not plan to get tested and he has repeatedly said this. Meanwhile Australia's Home Minister. Peter Dutton has tested positive for corona virus. Last week he met with President Trump's daughter Ivanka trump and attorney general William bar in Canada. Sophie Gregoire Trudeau the wife of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau tested positive for Kovic nineteen Thursday. She reported mild flu like symptoms after a trip to the UK. Prime Minister Trudeau. Says he does not have symptoms but will work for my solution for fourteen days in the Philippines president. Rodrigo duterte ordered a lockdown of Metropolitan Manila home to thirteen million people to charities. Order cuts off land domestic air and sea travel to and from Metro. Manila and imposes bans. On mass. Gatherings schools have been ordered shut for month and community. Quarantining is in effect local officials WHO DEFIED GOVERNMENT ORDERS FACE. Jail time was tested for corona virus after possible exposure. Meanwhile six of his Cabinet Ministers Sixteen lawmakers and the Philippines Central Bank governor have all gone into self quarantine as the corona virus continues to spread in the United States. Immigration advocates are afraid of a deadly outbreak inside immigration jails Silky Shah Executive Director of detention. Watch network said in a statement. Quote lives are already at risk and detention and with the spread of Corona virus? People are sitting ducks in a system. Notorious for its fatally flawed medical care unquote. They're also mounting concerns that the deportation of asylum seekers from the US and Mexico could accelerate the spread of corona virus across Central America. Honduras cancelled the arrival of flights with people who were deported as the country already declared its first. Two cases of the virus. El Salvador has declared a national quarantine banned all foreign travellers. Even though it hasn't had any confirmed corona virus cases yet this comes as the Guatemalan government announced Wednesday. It would ban the entry of European citizens as well as people from Iran China South Korea. North Korea has an attempt to control the spread of cove in nineteen. Meanwhile doctors working at a refugee camp. Aiding thousands of people in border city of Matamoros are preparing for the inevitable arrival of the corona virus to shelters and camps across the US. Mexico border one doctor at the MONTEMURRO shelter said Cova Nineteen infections along the border will be quote catastrophic and other news from the US Mexico border a nineteen year old pregnant woman from what Allah has died from injuries. She sustained after she fell while attempting to scale the US Border. Wall attempts to deliver her unborn. Baby were unsuccessful after she fell more than nineteen thousand feet. The Democratic National Committee has announced Sunday's Democratic presidential debate between Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders will take place in CNN studios in Washington DC instead of an Arizona because of the cove in nineteen outbreak. There will be no live audience on Thursday Senator Sanders called on President Trump to declare a national emergency and for everyone in the country to be able to get the health care. They need without cost time in the modern history of our country when we are all in this together. This is that moment now is the time for solidarity. Now is the time to come together with love and compassion for all including the most vulnerable people in our society who will face this and DEMOC. From a health perspective or pace of from an economic perspective Sanders also called for an immediate moratorium evictions for Closures and Utility Shut offs during the crisis on Thursday. The Miami Dade Police Department announced its officers would not assist with addictions during the pandemic outbreak. Joe Biden has called for scientists to be in charge of dealing with the corona virus pandemic in the United States in Iraq. The United States launched a series of air raids targeting Iran backed militia groups the US described the attacks as retaliation for a rocket attack that killed two US soldiers and a British army medic Wednesday Aljazeera reports Iraq's military confirmed the US air raids late. Thursday night hit four locations including an airport under construction in the holy city of Karbala. There have been injuries but no fatalities reported so far. No one has claimed responsibility for Wednesday's rocket attack against British. Us troops but the US blamed the iranian-backed Hezbollah militia back in the United States. Us Army Whistle Blower Chelsea. Manning will soon be released from jail after one year behind bars on contempt charges for refusing to in a federal grand jury investigation into wikileaks. The order for her immediate release comes one day after. Manning was hospitalized Virginia after she reportedly attempted suicide at a federal prison in Alexandria on Thursday judge and the triangle wrote quote. The court finds Ms Manning's appearance before the grand jury is no longer needed in light of which her detention no longer serves any coercive purpose judge triangle however rejected a request to cancel the fines imposed against manning for refusing to testify. Manning will now have to pay two hundred fifty six thousand dollars in two thousand thirteen Chelsea. Manning was sentenced to thirty five years in prison for leaking documents and videos to wikileaks showing evidence of us. War Crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan. President Obama granted clemency in two thousand seventeen a vocal supporter of Donald. Trump was sentenced Wednesday to a one year prison term for threatening to assault and murder Minnesota Congress member Ilhan Omar Fifty five year. Old Patrick Carly Neo Junior. Who told investigators he loves the president and hates radical Muslims in our government unquote cold. Congress member Ilhan Omar's office in two thousand eighteen and delivered the threaten an expletive Laden rant. Congress member Omar is one of the first two Muslim women elected to Congress in is the only lawmaker to wear a hijab at sentencing. Hearing in federal court in Western New York Wednesday Carlino received a short prison term after Congress member. Omar pleaded for leniency. She wrote in a statement to the judge quote. The answer to hate is not more hate. It's compassion. He should understand the consequences of his actions. Be Given the opportunity to make amends and seek redemption the congresswoman said in climate news top United Nations researchers are warning that polarize capture melting six times. Faster than they were in the nineteen nineties. Threatening Sea level rise that will displace hundreds of millions of people. By the end of the century the intergovernmental panel on climate change ice loss data from Greenland. Tactica is in line with some of the most pessimistic predictions of climate change and then even if global carbon emissions were somehow halted today. Arctic ice will continue to melt for another three decades in South Carolina in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight anti lgbtq Q. Law that prohibited public schools from mentioning same sex relationships and sex and health. Education has been declared unconstitutional by a US district judge. The banning of the outdated law comes two weeks after a federal lawsuit was filed by the National Center for Lesbian Rights. Lambda legal on behalf of a high school. Lgbtq student organization and other LGBTQ rights groups. The lawsuit said the one thousand nine hundred law violated the fourteenth amendment by discriminating against. Lgbtq students has prevented them from having access to vital health education. Colorado State lawmakers have approved a bill to replace Columbus Day with a holiday honoring Francis Savior Breen the patron saint of immigrants. The Leadership Council the American Indian Movement of Colorado celebrated passage of the bill writing quote for decades the holiday officially justified the substitution fallacy for history and repeating a false narrative about the heroism of Columbus while ignoring his Taliban crimes against the Indigenous Peoples of the Americas unquote. If the bill is signed by Governor Jared Polis Colorado will join twelve other states and dozens of local governments that will no longer celebrate Columbus Day. Most of the now celebrate indigenous Peoples Day in. Its place and those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now democracy now dot or the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. It's been seven weeks since the first case of Corona virus was reported in the United States. Today we look at how the trump administration has failed to account for what may be thousands of infections because of ongoing problems with access to testing here in the United States. The number of reported corona virus infections jumped by four hundred Thursday alone to about sixteen fifty but the actual number is believed to be far far higher congresses. In House doctor has privately told Capitol Hill. Staffers that he expects seventy to one hundred fifty million people in the United States will contract the corona virus. Six states have announced plans to close all public schools. Oregon Ohio Michigan Maryland Kentucky and New Mexico schools in Houston Texas near Seattle are also closing. Almost five million. Children are being impacted by the school. Closings only major sporting events in the United States have been halted the NCW has cancelled the upcoming men and women's College Basketball tournaments known as March Madness Disney has shuttered all its theme parks around the world including Disney world in Florida. New York State's ban public gatherings of more than five hundred people Broadway has shut down on Thursday New York City mayor. Bill de Blasio declared a state of emergency as the number of confirmed cases in the city jumped from forty two to ninety five in a single day again. These numbers are striking and troubling. We now and even compared to this morning. We've seen a big jump. We now have ninety five confirmed cases as forty two new since yesterday. So you can see the progression now. Mayor de Blasios estimated New York could have a thousand cases of corona virus by next week and said quote. We're getting into a situation where the only analogy is war unquote the New York Times reports fewer than two thousand people in New York have been tested. There have been just eleven thousand tests throughout the United States. Compared this what. Bbc is reporting. Nearly twenty thousand people are being tested for Corona virus every day in South Korea alone at a Congressional hearing Thursday on the Corona virus outbreak Democratic Congress member Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida press. Cdc Director Robert Redfield on the limited availability of Corona virus tests medical workers who think they've been exposed. Redfield was unable to answer and then turn to National Institute of Health official. Dr Anthony Fauci for guidance. This is how Dr Fao Who's the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases? Top MEMBER OF TRUMP'S CORONA VIRUS. Task Force responded. The system does not is not really geared to what we need right now. What you are asking for that is a failing and it is a failing. Let's admit it. The fact is the way the system was set up. Is that the public health component. That doctor that doctor Redfield was talking about was a system where you put it out there in the public and a physician asks for it and you get the idea of anybody getting it easily. The way people in other countries are doing it. We're not set up for that. Do I think we should be yes? But we're not okay. That's really disturbing. And I appreciate the information. Dr Found she. Statement appeared to directly refute a claim president trump made just last week. Anybody that needs a desk. It's a test we there there they have the. Does anybody WANNA test gets test. That's what president trump said. This comes the trump administration's corona virus task forces gun two days with no press briefings and the World Health Organization has officially classified the Corona virus outbreak as a pandemic for the rest of the hour. We're joined by two guests and Baltimore. Justin Leslie is with us. He's associate professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Senior author and new study that suggests the median incubation period for the new corona viruses about five days and joining us from Stanford University. Which is now close to students on campus. It's got online learning. Dr Steven Goodman is with US associate dean at Stanford Medical School where he's also a professor of epidemiology and Population Health and medicine. Oh and he's also my brother. He joins us from Stanford University. Yes they are continuing light Johns Hopkins to hold their classes online over concerns about Cova. Nineteen we welcome you both to democracy. Now Steve Let's begin with you. I consider you my lifeline on issues like this and that's why we called you. Why don't we start? By this issue of testing it is absolutely astounding that in countries like north like in countries like South Korea where we hear the test or something like twenty thousand a day in this country. It is believed that there have only been eleven thousand tests over the entire period of this outbreak. How is this possible? What happened? Well I don't know all the details of what happened. But it is clear that they were decisions that were made centrally about what test to use and restrictions on who could do the test that has been changed and finally other laboratories including one at Stanford have finally been authorized to Develop and now deliver their own tests so the original decisions to use a US specific test not the one That was suggested by the. Who which has been used in many many other countries in retrospect obviously was a big mistake and we had trouble manufacturing and distributing a valid test centralized at the CDs. Now this is a critical issue. Right I mean there was a test available. It was the World Health Organization tests the one that countries all over the world are using now but the CDC made a decision not to accept that test. They made their own passed. Sent it out and it was faulty. That's right now. We're having to depend on the many labs around the country and commercial laboratories to develop and offer this test. We are really just gearing up now for that The Stanford test which is the one that's being used regionally also for a variety of medical institutions. I think they This week they were offering between two and three hundred a day. They say that next week they'll be up to about a thousand a day. That obviously is not remotely enough to track the where the epidemic is going But that's what we have right now. Regionally nationally I don't know what the capacity is but as Dr Fao. She said we are way way behind. Well let's bring Professor Justin Wrestler into this conversation from Hopkins from Johns Hopkins. Let's talk about. Why testing is so important. Why is it so important that we know in this country Where the disease is where the outbreak is. Why is it important to know the number I mean this is our ability to have situational awareness about what's going on with the virus where it is how to react. So the most extreme measures that we take to combat the virus essentially potentially closing whole cities down like they did in China Italy. We don't WanNa do those places where there isn't a lot of you know there isn't actually a lot of disease and we don't want to wait till the hospitals are filling up with dead people to do those because then it's too late so we want to react in time and that has to that means we need testing and that means we need to be testing with the right intention. I think there is still some inertia towards trying to test people who've traveled etc with the idea that we're going to go around those people and contain and Tristar contacts and try to find those chains of transmission But I think we maybe need to rethink that with the idea that we really want is situational awareness about what's going on in the community and what's our silent out you know. What silent outbreaks might be happening so that we can respond? Accordingly in our public health measures in terms of people isolating themselves. Dr Steve Goodman if you can talk about what it means not to have a test so you don't know even if you've been exposed to someone who has tested positive and also. Isn't that true that these tests at this point in most cases take days to get results although there are some that are now being developed that simply take hours but what it means for people protecting the community well as Justin said people don't actually know what the threat is. They don't know how many people around them have the disease and they don't know Obviously whether they themselves have the disease if if they have been exposed so it's very very difficult for either public health authorities to calibrate the response properly is Justin Just described or individuals to calibrate their own actions. And and I also want to point out that when we talk about self-isolation or anything that an individual can do the paradigm really has to be not. Just what can I do to protect myself? But what can we each do to protect each other and the act of self isolation is not just individual protection is protecting everybody. You're in contact with but to know how extreme the behavior should be whether you should not go to a park whether you should not go to. The store is very much driven by. Your awareness is just describe it. Situational awareness of how many cases there are often silent cases in your own community in your own neighborhood going to your own stores so this decision. That's personal decision has social and health consequences but without testing. We're flying blind. I WANNA go to the issue of Corona virus. And if you could talk about the different steve or what? The language is corona virus. Cova nine thousand nine hundred for people to understand. Explain that the lexicon there of this disease and also how it compares to the flu. President trump has repeatedly tried to say that the flu kills tens of thousands of people. He said who knew the flu killed. It actually turns out that his grandfather. Friedrich trump died of the flu in this country at a young age but he tried to use it to show you know. Corona virus doesn't even compare so talk about both the language we use and what it means in comparison with the flow. Well Cova nineteen is the name of the disease not the virus specifically And what we're most concerned about is obviously The spread of the disease. Let me talk about The flu and the flu is a big killer and it doesn't affect many people. I think we have roughly in the range of fifteen to twenty million in this season alone in the United States with roughly one in two thousand death rates so in the in the range of fifteen to twenty thousand deaths from the flu so a flu is very very serious. But that represents roughly five to seven percent of the population and the We have and the reason it doesn't represent more is because both we have flu shots and we have years decades of of of of sort of cross reactive immunity built up over people who've been exposed to different Virus strains the difference in this with this virus is to first of all no one is immune so in theory. A hundred percent of the population is susceptible to this virus or very close to it. the second part is the the fatality rate Either for people who present to the medical care system sick enough to go to a doctor or per infection which is something different because not everybody who is infected necessarily goes to a doctor looks to be a fair bit higher than the flu. Maybe on the order of five times maybe even ten times higher than the flu so we have a maybe a much much larger reservoirs susceptible people on the order of ten to twenty times larger and we have a fatality rate. That is between five and ten times larger. So that's why the potential for this even though we have a tiny fraction of the cases and deaths right now why we're taking the extreme measures that we are taking now. All that said a lot of the Taliban rate can be affected by what we do. And that's why we're doing it now. Because the fatality rate is a function both of the age of the people who are infected but also of the capability of the medical care system to take care of them. So we can protect the medical care system that is keep the number of patients coming in at a rate that they can be cared for with adequate ICU beds and ventilators et Cetera. And also healthy Medicare folks. We can keep the That we can keep the totality rate low or least lower than it would have been without that. We're going to break come back to this discussion. We're going to talk about strategies to keep yourself and your family healthy what to say to children both of you. Dr Goodman and Dr. Leslie have children how you're talking to them about. What could be to say the least extremely frightening for them as it is for the whole population and I want to ask Dr. Less learned about the study. He did in China comparing Wuhan and how it dealt with the corona virus with community. Right next door. We're talking to Dr Steven Goodman. He is associate dean of the Stanford Medical School and just an Leslie. Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Associate professor this is democracy. Now we'll be back with them in a minute is The where A Long Day is over by Norrie. Jones this is democracy now the warring piece report. I'm Amy Goodman and I also just want to say I can't say enough about the team of people who are making this broadcast possible as everyone in this country right now is dealing with this pandemic as people are around the world it takes a community and we have an amazing one here and I am ever thankful every single day seven weeks since the first case of the corona virus was reported in the United States. We're spending the hour looking at. How the trump administration not only has failed to account for what is clearly thousands of infections in this country because of ongoing problems with access to testing. But we're talking about what needs to happen next. This is the critical issue. We're broadcasting from New York. The mayor of New York just cleared a state of emergency in the city. He said while they're about a hundred people who have tested positive just in New York City alone next week. He expects it to be a thousand just down the road in new Rochelle. Westchester is the epicenter of the Corona Virus And that came from one person who tested positive and very soon after his wife and two kids tested positive and now there's well over one hundred fifty people. The National Guard are now in new Rochelle. The schools are closed. They WANNA make sure kids get food because many kids all over this country get free lunch at school. What happens when the schools are closed? So we're going to be talking about a lot of issues still with us. Is Dr Steven Goodman? Associate Dean at Stanford Medical School where he's also professor of academia in population health and medicine Trained as a pediatrician. He is also my brother. My lifeline on issues like these. He's joining us from Stanford University and joining us from Baltimore is Justin Leslie Associate Professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Senior author on a new study that suggests the median incubation period for the new corona viruses about five days so Justin Leffler I WANNA start there. What does that mean? Why is that significant that the incubation period is perhaps five days? We've been hearing a lot about ten and fourteen and then I want to ask you about your work in China. So the median incubation period is five days so that means a fifty percent of people are going to develop symptoms within five days of being infected. But it's important to remember that's not necessarily the number we're most concerned with if we're thinking about quarantine active monitoring or self-isolation after a potential exposure. Because you know we don't have the people who are infected to be out there on in the community potentially spreading the virus before they know they have it so what we're more concerned with is what we call the long tail of that and that's where we get to the fact that in our study we showed that about ninety. Eight percent of people develop symptoms by twelve days which suggests that the fourteen day period of quarantine or active monitoring suggested by almost every public health agency around the world is pretty good. I mean some people will get through that But you know but it's pretty good and it's going to capture. The vast majority of people who would develop symptoms will do so during that period. So let me ask you about your work in China. Talk about the study that you just completed comparing Luhan to a neighboring city. Tell us about the outbreak in Wuhan. What happened how it was dealt with and how it was dealt with nearby so just to be clear. Our study was looking at the epidemiology in China. We weren't directly comparing with Wuhan but Wuhan just to talk about it. Had you know is the epicenter of the entire outbreak? They clearly had things get out of control in the beginning and had the shut down the entire city and really a lot of the whole province of WHO bay which they've now had to do in Italy as well so it's an example of both how bad things can get if we're not careful about staying on top of things and very proactive. But it's also an example of the fact that you know massive direct action can sort of squash the epidemic and stop the virus so where we did our work in Shenzhen. There hasn't been a big outbreak and part of that. I think is a proactive. Social distancing measures so the types of things. We're starting to see in the United States. Now GET STOPPING MASS EVENTS. Having people work from home and the like but they also had very intensive surveillance and very intensive contact tracing of cases that came in from. Who Bay province and elsewhere in China and that probably played a big role in why they didn't have an epidemic. So can you talk about the fact that it looks like both in China? It's hard to say we're saying there's good news out of China right now because of this terrible pandemic but the actual good news. That's coming out of China and South Korea as opposed to what we're seeing right now in Italy and now the United States were just beginning understand the scope of the outbreak here. Yes China clearly has been able to contain the disease at least temporarily. I think there's a big question of what happens as they start to dial back. All of the extreme measures they've taken in order to contain the disease and whether. We see a resurgence or whether they're excuse me whether they're able to do that. In a way that more gradually a more gradual dial dial back in a way that prevents the virus from resurging and in the country and Italy. Is You know I think? Italy's taking a similar course to China where it remains to be seen. How effective it is you know it is in Italy. It's very different. Culturally population is different and us were in a different part of the outbreak. And I think the hope is since we're early by doing things proactively canceling the NBA cancelling the NCAA tournament. Everybody working from home closing schools that we can get to a point where we're slowing the spread of this virus without having to have measures as extreme as we're taken in China Dr Steve Goodman if you talk about what's happened in Italy The horrific Turn of events there where the entire country is on lockdown where the medical system is clearly overwhelmed and then talk about the United States and this whole issue of flattening the curve a term. I think a lot of people are just beginning to hear right now. But what do you understand? Took place in Italy Well I haven't I don't have special expertise about Exactly what's going on Italy? But what is very very clear. Is that the The gree of spread and And present a has overwhelmed. The medical care system. That is very clear. So part of what's happening. There is an example of winning when an epidemic goes to its peak and is greater than the medical infrastructure. Can Take care of it and as you may know There have been extremely poignant. pieces Both tweets and and other forms of communication by Italian doctors who literally have with great distress talked about how they had to basically choose life and death for patients for whom they had to choose who to ventilate and who not to because they had a limited number of ventilators. So we don't want to get there in this country so again. It shows that the case fatality rate which ultimately is one of the numbers that that produces the most fear is a is a function not only how many cases or how many serious cases but how much can be absorbed and properly treated by the medical care system. And so that gets right into your second question which is about flattening the curve. The the goal of mitigation efforts now which is to obviously lower the number of cases and spread them out is to keep the number of cases to a level where the medical care system can adequately take care of each one where we have enough personnel where we have an offense leaders. We have enough. Icu beds we have enough beds in the hospital. Take care of everybody. Optimally and the idea of flattening the curve is taking a certain number of cases that would occur in a certain period of time and spreading it out over time for the peak is less and so it occurs over a much longer period of time and hopefully obviously also reducing the number of cases but this match both regionally and nationally between the number of facilities personnel beds and equipment This has to be matched with a number of cases that are in that area. It would be nice to hear from public health officials or national officials how they plan to shift resources. If in fact the medical care capabilities in any particular region is outstripped by the number of cases. But that's what flattening the curve is all about and that's what all of the measures just described by yourself and by Justin are attempting to do and this issue of respirators in the United States of ventilators of the access. Most people they do not want to go to the hospital even to their doctors offices Most people actually will survive this and it's like Flu and for many people it's mild and for children even less so though they can be carriers but this issue of overwhelming. The number of respirators ventilators hospitals around the country. Can you explain that well? Obviously the numbers are limited. I think we have on the order of a million beds and The actual number they're available in any one day about a third of that the number of ICU beds is a fraction of that. And I WANNA make a particular point that this is not just about caring for Cova patients the the number of covert patients entering. The system affects the care of other patients. So the kinds of things that we take for granted in terms of care of any of us for any serious disease is affected by the demand on the medical care system for the care of Kobe patients. So we are not Geared up as a society for the with the surge capacity to handle the number of potential Kovic patients that we would get if we didn't do anything so the kinds of things we're doing now are to keep the numbers below the surge capacity the limited very limited searched Bassetti that we have and again. This is not just a national issue. We can't just count up the number of national beds. We have to look at this regionally. The number of cases in New York City with a number of ICU beds in New York City and have facility to move those cases. If in fact those numbers don't match up Steve Goodman is associate dean at Stanford Medical School. Justin less ler is a professor at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Where continuing with them. After this break. Awesome the reckoner by radiohead. This is democracy. Now I mean goodman the British government says up to ten thousand people may now be infected by the corona virus on Thursday British Prime Minister. Boris Johnson called on people who are sick to self quarantine. This is the worst public health crisis for regeneration. Some people compare it to seasonal flu. Alas that he's not right owing to the lack of ood immunity. This disease is more dangerous. And it's going to spread further and I must level with you level with the British public. More families. Many more families are going to lose loved ones before that time. British Prime Minister Johnson. He did not close. Schools are banned gatherings of more than five hundred people. Britain's chief medical officer said in a worst case scenario more than eighty percent of Britain would contract the virus with one percent mortality rate that equates to more than half a billion deaths five hundred thousand half a million deaths half a million here in the United States during his press conference in Vermont Thursday Senator Sanders said the federal government would prioritize the care of communities. Who are that. They should prioritize the care of communities. Most vulnerable during the corona virus pandemic the elderly people with disabilities in house. People low income people. Those who are uninsured an unemployed we need also in this economic crisis to place an immediate moratorium on evictions on Foreclosures and on Utility shut offs. So that no one loses their home during this crisis and that everyone has access to clean water electricity heat and air conditioning. We need to construct emergency homeless shelters to make sure that the homeless survivors of domestic violence and college students quarantined off. Campus are able to receive the shelter the health care and the nutrition they need Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden. We'll debating in Washington D. C. as opposed to Arizona where they were going to debate and there will not be an audience because of the Corona Virus Dr Steve Goodman Dan Dean at Stanford Medical School and Justin Leisler professor at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health or with us from Baltimore and from Stanford California Dr Steve Goodman this issue of the poor in the United States and people who are working poor who are without insurance people who are unemployed while everyone says that the corona virus hits everyone which is clearly true there are communities that are particularly vulnerable right now how they be protected well this is an issue for public health officials. Obviously they have to be able to take the same measures that anybody would take to to reduce the spread. The ones we've already talked about however the ability for less wealthy or poor individuals to take time off from work to sequester themselves in their homes To Take care of their children May Be quite different than than others. So we we have to think about it. I think Bernie has it about right. We have to think about this as a social responsibility. Not just a an issue for individual action because people's ability to protect themselves are constrained by their own economic circumstances in their own living circumstances if they're living in very very tight quarters with many people in in in in in communities where other people might be sick it is very very difficult for them to take care of themselves and needless to say if they don't have access to medical care or they're afraid to seek it because of Because they're afraid of the bills. That's another huge problem. Easy for people to get tested and to access care and if they're undocumented and afraid to seek and afraid to seek testing as well absolutely justin less slur if you could also address this issue and then. I'd like to ask you how you're talking to your children so I agree. It's absolutely critical to find ways to protect those populations that are not going to be able to take social distancing measures have more trouble with that potentially have food insecurity if they don't go to school or go to places where there might be mass gatherings and I think you know it's one of those things where we do have an individual responsibility not to just you know. Keep ourselves out of the community but do things to help others. Keep themselves out of the community. You know the government is going to be overwhelmed by this and you know we're not as a country set up to provide services in a crisis the way is maybe needed now and now there's a bill being weighed. The Democrat led. House set to vote on a bill that would grant workers fourteen days of paid sick. Leave up to three months of paid family and medical leave. Unemployment Insurance to furloughed workers includes additional five hundred million dollars to help feed low income pregnant women or mothers with young children who lose their jobs or laid off because of the virus outbreak President Trump said. He did not support the bill. But because we're coming to the end of this conversation as people push hard for the entire community to be protected the that sits individuals but it also brings out the importance of people around the world as a community. Can you talk about what you're saying to your kids professor less ler? Yeah I mean my son is six and his school just got cancelled so I'm trying to explain to them that there's the disease out there. It's scary It's wondering why his dad's working so much but the I'm trying to explain to him that it's important to wash his hands that it's important to you know. Think about what he's doing out there in the community and that maybe he won't be able to go to school do the same things that is that he is usually able to do for fun. I can talk more explicitly to my mother who is in their seventies in high risk who I had to sort of say this is real. Stay home self isolate. Don't don't go out and this is why is that. The children don't tend to children. This is not as fatal for as it is for older people especially over seventy and eighty right. I mean and Wuhan at last report I saw from Honda was in detail out of out of thousand deaths over a thousand deaths. Only one was in people somebody under twenty years of age so it's pretty mild and children do not seem to be at risk even more so than the flu where we see children get sick and potentially die occasionally in the youngest age. That doesn't seem to be happening right now for the current virus and but we do not know we know they can get infected and we do not know whether or not they can pass it on so you know keeping children Critical part of our more imperilled presumably. We don't know for sure And Steve What you tell your kids my nieces and nephew who are bit older but also as so many people in this country afraid right now. So what's interesting is that my kids are both in college actually here at Stanford and they're more worried for us. I don't have to tell them everything anything they read. They're smart and they're much more concerned about their threat to us than Than than anything else. So they're taking the steps they need to take to prevent us from getting sick. And it's a very interesting reversal of generational roles. Perhaps a premonition of the future but I think this is a responsibility that many young people feel not just protect themselves because they themselves are not that worried but they are definitely worried about the older generation the same way that Justin is concerned about his mom and of course Gerald Starter just had a baby here in New York in the midst of this pandemic indeed. Yes and she is Naturally self isolating but Is is being extremely careful about her own exposure and needless say their new child. Well I WANNA thank you both for being with us Dr Steven Goodman Associate Dean at Stanford Medical School where he's also professor epidemiology and public health and medicine and also my brother and just in less ler says she professor Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. We also want to welcome to the world. Andre Sorry Marino Camarena congratulations to eagerly and Drian. That does it for our show. Everyone wash your hands be safe. I'm Amy Goodman an enormous. Thank you to the whole team. That may democracy now happened today.

United States President Trump Dr Steve Goodman president New York City Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School School South Korea flu Amy Goodman professor Stanford University Florida Dr Steven Goodman Stanford Medical School China National Institute of Allergy
Bytemarks Caf: Using Artificial Intelligence To Help Economic Recovery

Bytemarks Cafe

29:00 min | 2 months ago

Bytemarks Caf: Using Artificial Intelligence To Help Economic Recovery

"It's May twenty seven twenty twenty. You welcome to the new reality edition of Bite Marks Cafe where we serve you the first bite of today's science technology and innovation. I'm Bert Lum for stop. We have Rosie from the University of Hawaii Department of Oceanography and she is here to tell us about the partnership between the University of Hawaii and the city and county of Honolulu's four cove nineteen testing. And then we'll be joined by Ian Kit the Jima from ocean it. Sarah Don Boo from the box. Jelly and trump land from latour. And we'll be talking about Aloha and how to gauge using it to gauge economic recovery. And of course we want to just get right into it and I want to welcome Rosie Allegata from the University of Hawaii. And she's the associate professor in oceanography and of course she's here to tell us about this partnership about Cova nineteen testing. Welcome to the show Rosie for having will now rosie those a press release about how I guess it's the tropical medicine clinical lab that is involved with some of the covid nineteen testing and and this partnership with the With the county. And maybe you can explain what is what is that relationship and how will you provide services to The city and county So the Tommy of Honolu- has provided us with funding to be able to buy the equipment the FDA approved equipment necessary as well as Tests so that we can test up to twenty five thousand individuals for the RTP CRT tests this stuff. Stick up your nose as well as for serology. Antibodies to see if anybody has developed Immunity and so that is funded through the cares money which is federal monies coming through the city and county and coming to The new clinical tropical medicine clinical lab at Jefferson. So so tell me how. How are you involved as a as a part of Department of Ocean Agassi and this whole tropical medicine clinic so I wasn't always An oceanographer I actually was trained in microbiology. Immunology Stanford Medical School and so My background is actually an infectious diseases. And when the COVID crisis hit I really felt it was necessary to Step up and see what I could do to assist You know the people of Hawaii and University of Hawaii a state part of the state and I just really felt like it was our responsibility to help out how we could and So I partnered with after his economic car who heads the chair of the Infectious Tropical Medicine Department and Together? We've been working for the past ten weeks to establish this new clinical laboratories so that we can met testing capacity in state Hopefully there won't be a surge but in case there is a surge as we open sectors of our economy. We really want to really help that. Effort and also to focus in particular on serving Underserved populations and people who might not be able to have barriers to access on covid nineteen testing. Because perhaps they're uninsured or maybe they're homeless so We really see ourselves as a Helping out the efforts. That are already ongoing. So you know the setup over at the tropical medicine clinical lab. Was there something special about that? That was able. You're able to position that as a place for the actual testing take place. Yes so Job Sound has already helped us the Dean on you. Just IDENTIFY BASE. That was already Biosafety Level two certified which is what we need to have a clinical lab but more importantly or new research involving. I'm COVID NINETEEN. Jebsen really has the only biosafety level three lab in the state and that will enable us to do even more research To identify things that are really unique about. Hawaii's populations and so we have the possibility of both testing as well as conducting cutting edge research and in terms of The test itself you said that the Senate county actually got some money so they bought the test kits. These tests kids test. Kits will be distributed over at the community. Health centers across is correct. Yes so the ways they to work is that it will be the community. Health care centers that will be collecting the samples from patients and then we will be picking them up regularly and then Performing the processing of those tests on campus at jobs and then we'll be reporting those results back to the ordering clinician as well as to the Department of Health. I'm so to be just just like Know clinical labs or CLA H. Do we are setting up to do that. And then you said you said earlier. There's you are equipped to do Twenty five thousand cove in nineteen tests. I I think the press release said fifty thousand is there. Is there a just another batch that you need to purchase or purchased to get up to fifty thousand? Oh yeah absolutely. So one of the things that these tests to be stored cold on my he. So we don't have you know it's really hard to find minus twenty freezer facilities to have that much and so What we're doing is that we have been partnering with our vendor so that we can Have the amount that we need this appropriate and then if needed because skill up our long-term goal is that by December end of December. We'll have Been able to test up to fifty thousand Or the RTC up to forty nine thousand. I'm for the antibody test and then Just for just for listeners. So the the covid. Nineteen test is actually testing for the virus itself and then For the for the for the antibodies. Just detecting the antibodies. As a result of the body reacting to the virus I guess in the after the aftermath correct so the RTC on the it test will allow us to identify people who are actively infected have enough viral load in their court producing enough virus. They can Reach that limit of detection and We'll be able to identify that in in many symptomatic cases and likely all Since cases and then for the antibody test those will test and identify help us identify people who have been exposed and develops Immunity or at least had an immune response to covid nineteen very good. So is there some website you want to share with us? Maybe we can the learn more. Yes on our website is t n c Well if TM clinical labs nutjob some DOT HAWAII DOT Edu. Great put that up on our show notes for later on tonight Rosie. Thanks for joining us. And of course we'll take a short break and when we return we'll be joined by Ian Kitajima Sarah Non Boo and Trung Lamb. We'll talk a bolt aloha artificial intelligence and of course how it affects or how it can help detect some of the activities for our economic recovery. This is bite marks. Kathy support for Bite. Marks cafe comes from the HP our local talk show fund which helps Hawaii public radio sustain and grow its locally produced talk shows Mahalo contributors locations and Honululu Waldorf School. Welcome back to bite marks cafe. I'm happy to welcome Ian Kajima. He's a regular on this show. Of course in the Sarah Non boot and trunk. Lampien is the director over at Ocean also known as the chief. Innovate innovator Tech Sherpa and of course. Sarah's the strategic programs manager over at the box Jelly and she spice spends most of her time at the Entrepreneur Sandbox and Trung is the is a tech enthusiasts. I know he's always been a faithful listener to bite. Marquette van of course he is the CEO of the Tour Group LLC. I welcome you all to Bite Marks Cafe La. Thanks for having US thanks. Thanks for Joining us now. I know that we have spoken about the law. A in and King. I think you know we've had some of your folks from ocean at the sharing about The the the you know the toolkit that you've created and how students have been getting involved and I think it's a great a great way of getting students sort of involved with area. But but you've taken to the next level and looking at actually implementing it at some stores but give us a little bit of a background on on her. I and what the has created. Yeah so you know thanks to you know I mean ocean. It's been doing research in artificial intelligence for the last few years and so we can kind of see that that you know a is kind of where the Internet wasn't back in nineteen ninety five. You know it's going to be as transformative. It's not more than the Internet was. And so you know the song was. How do we bring artificial intelligence to students right? I mean that's a big a big goal But we started building out with the support of commitment schools and Public. Schools are why foundation. We started building out a toolkit and as we started doing this we started going around and sharing and just just educating people about Ai and two industries You know like travel and all the different industries including education Superintendent keeps you motto asked for Special Workshop Just for herself and her leadership team and and really education came out. You know really strong saying you know how do we bring the future to To our students and so I got challenged by Keith. Hi Ashi to bring it to his students and so last year we started building out Disability for even the most basic thing was really counting people. Counting people doesn't sound like a big deal but you know That's really hard for machines to do and computers to do only only very very recently and I want to say with only within the last year or so hardware and other things have come together to make it very affordable and so all of a sudden we started putting it into the schools At the beginning of this year and then all of a sudden the whole Kobe pandemic occurred. And nobody's at the school so there's nobody to count at the school so we started to partner with industry and businesses and started Saying okay where do we can? We put these sensors While we still work with the students so the students can still work at home with a computer and access and still answer. I think important questions but we needed a we needed places to put these people counting sensors in the community and boxer Li sandbox through. Hdd and you know like try and Latour caffeine and others Excluding Toyota Toyota Hawaii have their door so let us put the sensors in there to let the kids analyze the data. Yeah so you know when I when I was able to attend the away. I A workshops. It was a great demonstration of how the tool kit can say. Gather up Photos and if you were to run a test of whether or not determining whether or not assured is a law shirt or not a aloha shirt you learn the process of training the machine to detect versus the other and then the counting seemed to be a pretty straightforward right. I mean if you have people in in the frame. The computer can actually detect people that are not only standing still but moving around into frame. I guess you're able to to count that now You know with both Trung in and Sarah let me start which Sarah. What was it that you saw the need to maybe learn about in installing these these people counter sensors over at the sandbox. What did you learn as a result of this technology? I think For us where things that was really attractive about about this project and being part of this. That work is that we have to count the number of people who are coming into the sandbox. I'm from our two main. Entrances every day Right now the sandbox is closed. It's been closed Since March when the stay at home order went out. And you know haven't had access but as we you're up for reopening at least allowing folks knock into the space and a limited capacity we want to be able to track how many people are in the space And I believe that the next phase of this project is to council with math and I think that will be really valuable data to be able to share tour members For me is also exciting because this whole transition To working from home process You had to adopt You know how we interact with our members Obviously the sandboxes physical place so for us we build community and communicate with people face to face As you know we've had to see at home where we can't allow our members to come into the space we've really had to adopt the way. We communicate a lot of moving online communication. You know really ramping. Up using other forms of communication. And what's exciting about? The ALOHA project and the dashboard is that we can communicate members in real time. How many people are in the space on that can help fix plan You know oh I can see that. There's a lot of activity at the sandbox today. To MIMIC TO MIMIC TO MITIGATE my risk I might decide not to go in today or look at historical data and say. Hey you know. Wednesdays are pretty busy days so I'm GONNA choose to go to the sandbox on maybe to their Thursday so I think the data that we can get from this really exciting. That's good and for for trump. I mean you know for the The tour stores. I mean you're already open right for people to come in and purchase things so when you when you decided to implement Installed this this sensors was it a An an effort to kind of get a sense as to when are some of the more Traffic Times of the day. I it's multi-faceted Two of our core values at mature our collaboration and growth mindset. We're always looking for a non sausage or local businesses to collaborate with two I. There's create positive change in in food like we did a thousand giveaway A few months ago with show Aloha challenge and If you combine education you got you got my interest so this was a wonderful project that that in front of me anytime I can help students learn about tax. I'm all for it but from a business perspective You know a lot of our locations are in strip malls and as much as I have my employees with trying to find better ways to serve our customers. There's only so many balls they can jump in the air one time and when I saw this The software and this this tracking feature thought. This was something great where I could trust. The number of people go by my sore. And perhaps maybe they'll come in so I can see our people walking by and are not interested or are they going to a competitor and that was data that before this I was not really able to get in a cost effective manner. That's a that's a novel novel use of the data. Now no IAN. Can you explain a little bit about the the actual Technology that's implemented. I that you've got some pretty cool. You know all in one packages of a that that you know is already kind of put together with cameras and sensors and able to connect to the Internet. So what's what's maybe describes some of the Pony S- yeah so so so so the hardware itself is a pretty simple piece of equipment That we can place Pretty much anywhere. As long as we have power and a WI FI access point We kind of put it in and kind of hide it away And it it's it's very simple. Everything is done. All the processing actually happens on the computer side so happens on little tiny computer The detection everything happens there We then what we sent to the cloud database in the cloud is simply a date time stamp and a customization. So is this person. Is this a car vehicle? So we can actually count other types of objects including vehicles I think I mentioned earlier. We're we're doing a pig counting Project on the Big Island We can but what we send is basically text information so we don't actually take pictures. Store pictures audio. We don't do any of that so we can really maintain privacy. You may walk in front of the sensor a hundred times but I don't know that that that that's you all I know is that a person came in front of this Sensor and we counted it and we sent it to the cloud. All of that gets pulled down into essentially A Google search spreadsheet as Google sheet and then from there We can pull that into other things like tableau or we used data studio by Google. We can so the students actually learn how to Basically tell stories and really. That's what we try and focus on is having the kids tell stories versus be okay. We're GONNA make you a data analyst. That comes later if you cannot tell. Tell us tell a story based on what the data tells you And think about what is the question. You're trying to answer so we really work with the students to figure out I like. What is that question? You're trying to answer if you could count people and You know I'm just looking at Latour's information. Here I turn and you know if you looked at how your weekday tr. Traffic is versus weekend. Traffic it is. It is significantly different right. There's different patterns and so we would ask the kids. So what does this tell you based on this kind of information So it's very simple hardware Lot of sophisticated Software things happening In in the background But again trying to make it as simple and easy as possible so essentially we have seven. Sixth grade or seventh graders actually using artificial intelligence To answer these very difficult questions that you know just recently You wouldn't need it literally have to have a person standing there just clicking away so you know I do want to do want to talk a little bit about how the data actually gets to the students and is there another component of this. Call it an experiment. You have the retail side you. Have you have Sarah Chong you know? They've already sort of installed it. And then there's data that gets uploaded to the cloud and what I'm curious about. Is US hotter? The students get directed to actually using that data. But would hold that thought we re back after this short break to continue our conversation with Ian Kit the GM Sarah non boo and Chung Lamb. And we're talking about Ai. And using it to engage the economic recovery is bite marks cafe support for. Bite MARKS. Cafe comes from the HP our local talk show fund whose contributors help Hawaii public radio sustain and grow its locally produced talk shows Mahalo to the Saint Andrew's schools which includes the priory school for girls the prep for boys and Queen Preschool. Welcome back this is bite marks cafe. I'm Bert Lum. And if you're just joining us we're talking to Ian Kit the from Ocean it Sarah Non booth from the box Jelly and Chung Lam from latour. And we're talking about. And of course the people connor that's been developed by by ocean it and right before the break we're talking about the data that gets created and and then. Ian You're you're describing basically being a tex kind of Data Upload to the cloud. It's not it's not detecting any kind of Image of people. It's not a facial recognition. It's just it's just basically techs and numbers. Sarah so I guess maybe is for the for the sandbox are. We're probably a little too early to actually. What get a good sense of the data at this stage I would not. We're not too early Right now for. We've had our sensors up for the last two weeks. I obviously isn't open to our members yet but for folks who do have private offices here as well as the sandbox in HEC staff who have been coming into the space You know being activity here and it is cool to see What's been gathered on our dashboard weren't able to season it. You know there is a little bit more traffic and activity on Mondays. And Not Aligns with you. Know we even when we get deliveries When Soak stop by World able to see when our spaces busiest so we see that folks are coming in the morning and mid morning and then leaving in the early afternoon also aligns right now with low. What was with the space? But I think like you said we'll get to more opened to our members now no tone in a similar way. You're you're already uploading data and you have some ideas on on how this data might be revealing in terms of The the characteristics or the patterns of of people as they walk by whether they enter or not enter I'm just curious. How would you like to see that data? Be further analyzed and Is it is it something that you will personally? Kinda get your hands on or is this something that Maybe this question is for Ian to is hottest the hottest a student. Actually now get a hold of the data and and actually eight around. You know various analytic stories. That could they could tell about it and Chung. I'll I'll give it to you I For me I'm seeing this as a long play. I'm really curious about the potential for this technology to really help us Get some actionable data. Beyond just how many people walk by I would like to know how long people are spending in line knowing that dwell time knowing is before walking in seeing align them walking out which is something. A I know happens on occasion when we do have long lines at lunch but I. I don't really have easy way of tracking back because I don't have someone constantly watching the door so to me. I'm looking forward to seeing this technology mature and getting much more actionable data out of it so that Ian so strong already described some things that he would like to see. How would you describe the process by which students are now perhaps getting a hold of the data and and looking at it and perhaps even answering the questions that the trunks brought up? Yeah so I think a so much for the students come. You know they're the challenge comes from the business. So as we put these sensors in where We're asking businesses to think about and again. This is hard for businesses to because they've never had this ability right so you know so say you had a new menu sister. A new menu right And you wanted to see how it affected that menu and selling turn you know if you imagine a menu outside the ice of on your window. Right you know. You can measure the effectiveness of that because now you you have. Essentially artificial human. That's just counting. How many people come up and walk up to that menu right and as you switch out that menu you can. You can then see the impact. It has on the traffic in your store. And but these kinds of questions are what We would throw to the students right. So so say you have a series of sensor so there's five centers that latour and really true and when working with trend and the students we would throw. Here's kind of the the data challenge that we want the students to use the data and analyze it so a lot of information is Available directly to the students We have a special website. Set up or students can kind of walk through All the training materials that we've developed and and they can then be thrown the data challenge and the assignment and then go ahead and answer that and the other component that we're trying to add to this is kind of a learning earn component. We know a lot of students having to also work during this time to help support their families. So we're looking at And we have some initial support so that the students that participate in for example in a in a challenge that troon with put out We would buy gift cards from tour cafe to provide to the students who would participate in those challenges so it's not just purely just a learning thing but also an opportunity for students to apply their skills to helping a real business like latour or the box jelly or to Hawaii or food or some other local businesses here in Hawaii what schools are are kind of a top of the list that are actually ready to take on this data data challenge. Yeah so we do have. Of course you know the the initial schools that we started with the partying school of Course Paula school and come in schools. And but more and more recently because of the VID- Situation Hawaii Technology Academy HTA Because they're kind of a hybrid school and a lot of the students Come to a physical campus but also Kind of work from home in only go do their schooling from home. They are been really really on top of this and We're starting to look at. How do we incorporate these students into kind of like an AA internship? Where they're they're focused on. These data challenges working with businesses are really kind of exposing them to the most cutting edge technologies putting it in their hands putting it into local businesses to help them restart but then it's kind of a real world kind of experience and at the same time they can earn a little bit of Gift cards and things to to help their family out and so like I said drunk. I mean real quickly. Do you see getting involved with helping to be a part of this. Data challenge getting in front of the kids. Sara sure I can something Yeah I I think that would be great. I mean in the name of the sandbox Entrepreneur Sandbox and sandbox. And we want this place to be a test bed for technology and I think that having this pilot project in our face is you know exactly what the space is built for. And then the trunk. I know you're you're potty. Very interested in getting in front of the students and give them challenge some of the questions that you have well. We're quickly in. The Dashboard is ready can I? I'm going to be putting that up on. The show knows for later on you. Also mentioned serve call any other any of the companies that are coming online real quick So actually through the state I mean He got she and CDC Has provided The sandbox but there's also now on the Big Island and am RTC. The My Research Tech Center on Maui is also locations that will be getting sensors out Of course that we have sensors And also sensors looking down for stream all And and we're we really are looking for local businesses or you know folks like food and Zippy's city mill. Abc Drugstores and others. That WANNA look at. How do you manage up on the? I'll put the dashboard up and people might have some ideas on on getting getting involved in the gym is a director over at Ocean et. Sarah is a program manager of over at the box. Jelly and Trung Lamb is CEO. Over ed La Tour Group and of course I want to thank you all for joining us today and of course thank you for listening to bite marks cafe. Join US next week. When we'll talk to UPS KNICKS COHORT? And how the are managing through this pandemic. If you miss any part of this addition you can find the podcast tonight. Show ON BITE. Marks cafe the organ of course if you have any comments or suggestions feel free to email me bite marks a djamil dot com. You can also find me on twitter at bite. Marks are engineers David Chongqing catch on. Hp One every Wednesday and anytime via the APP you stay awesome. We'll see you next week. Another addition of Bite Marks cafe.

Bite Marks Cafe Sarah Latour Trung Lamb Rosie Allegata Hawaii Hawaii cloud Ian Kit University of Hawaii RTC Ian Bert Lum HP Big Island Sarah Don Boo director latour
#134: The Latest Science on Enhancing Focus and Developing a Growth Mindset with Dr. Andrew Huberman

Broken Brain with Dhru Purohit

1:33:12 hr | Last month

#134: The Latest Science on Enhancing Focus and Developing a Growth Mindset with Dr. Andrew Huberman

"Most, people don't realize that these two pieces of brain that we call the is retina that are outside our skull are. Controlling. Tremendous number of aspects of our lives I've won here. Host of the rain podcast today's episode of Doctor. Andrew Huber men on the podcast. He's a neuroscientist and he's from Stanford. University, he's here to talk to us about the latest happenings and understanding around brain science specifically, we're going to get into vision and how vision in our brain health are directly connected. How can we better understand how to use vision and certain exercises that we can do to improve the quality and the ability of us to process complicated or challenging emotions that we might be doing? Doing with on a daily basis, we're also going to be talking about growth mindset. Where in the brain does the growth mindset live? And how can we take advantage of that? You'd better at things that are challenging in life is a fascinating conversation. Andrew is truly a scientist and really looks at the latest literature that's out there that he puts out at Stanford, and that his peers puts out and figures out the way to make it translatable, practical and out flippable to the audience. That's listening and that's exactly what this interview is I hope you enjoy. Before we jump into today's episode, I, WanNa, talk to you about my favorite Goto meal so huge, healthy hearty salad, and the key is never get bored of it because I'm constantly mixing it up and I'm including a lot of colors, a lot of layers and a lot of textures I'll give you an example. Just the other day I made one took ruge butter lettuce, I took fresh basil meant that added things like nutritional yeast. Red Onion Avocado watermelon radish. Sardines cucumbers seed blend an roasted chickpeas, and then I mixed up port on extroversion, organic, olive oil, and a little bit of primal kitchen, dressing which I love and I served it up. Everybody loved it. It was a hit now. The key is get all these condiments from thrive market delivered to my door, so I don't have to think and I can mix up my salad every single day. I can order all the pantry ingredients I use my daily salads like wild cod. Sardines Salmon Albacore Hem seeds. Hemp oil beans and lentils, which I don't do a lot of, but I love to throw in every once in a while, clean dressings, nuts, and seeds, and again I get them delivered to my door. I don't have to think of it and I can vary my salad every single day. Thrive market has thousands of products including gluten free dairy free organic Paleo Trade Pagan whatever you're following right now. They got that ingredient for your. Your type of Diet, and also to have toothpaste and skin, care products and non toxic cleaning products for incredible prices which are great. If you WANNA, keep your home clean. During these times, they also bonus carry grass-fed beef and sustainable seafood options. It's so simple plan ahead with thrive market and get all those items delivered to your door, so you never feel bored of your favorite to meal. Which I hope, you'll try my salad out. On Dr, Mark Today, you'll get a twenty dollar shopping credit when you place your first order any order above forty nine dollars ships for free, and because sustainability is a huge thing that thrive market cares about, and we care about I. Know You care about to everything. Is Carbon neutral from their zero waste warehouses? That's frigging huge now. If you're interested, just go to market dot com slash broken brain to sign up and start filling your car up to date and see discount automatically applied when you go to thrive market dot com slash broken. Welcome to the broken brain podcast where we dive deep in the topics of neuro, plasticity, epigenetics, mindfulness, functional, medicine and mindset. I'm your host Droop Road, and each week mitee and I bring on a new guest. We think can help you improve your brain help feel better and most importantly live more. This week's guest is Dr Andrew. Cuban doctor Haberman is a neuroscientist and tenured professor in the Department of Neurobiology at Stanford University School of Medicine. He has made numerous important contributions to the fields of brain, development, brain, function and neural plasticity. We're GONNA. Be Diving into all those topics on this conversation Dr Human is McKnight. And Pew Foundation Fellow and was awarded the cogan award in two thousand seventeen, which is given to scientists making the largest discoveries in the study of vision, his labs, most recent work focuses on the influence of vision and respiration on human performance and brain states such as fear and courage work from his laboratory he Hebron. Laboratory at Stanford Medical School has been published in top journals, including nature, science and cell, and has been featured in all the places that you know Time magazine BBC scientific America discover and other top media outlets Dr Hebron welcome in to the broken brain guests. Thanks so much great to be here. Looking forward to the conversation, and I just want to save that. I've been really enjoying instagram series that you've been doing to educate people on. All aspects of the brain and neural plasticity I just find that like I love all these new tools in modalities that scientists and researchers like yourself have to take the knowledge, which is often very layered and traditional media in short. Can Get quick sound bites, and sometimes those sound bites are wrong. But in much layer conversation like podcast in instagram videos directly from you presented in a very engaging way, which you are very engaging, it's just another way for the general public. Really learn and understand the real takeaways that have to do with our life right now so I want to acknowledge you and thank you for all the work that you're putting out there. Oh, thank you, it's. It's been a real pleasure. You know a couple of years ago. I decided to start. Teaching assigns on instagram and most because a friend of mine who? is a former navy seal, but now he's doing a lot of important work in the community He said you know. What are you going to do? In two thousand nineteen to contribute to the world and I said what about my lab? You know I'd like to think that what we do is relevant. And then we both laughed because I was always saying to him. Before that conversation that one of the problems with sciences that so much of the information is vaulted in universities and manuscripts in a format that people just can't digest and I'm very blessed to have. All these colleagues in the scientific community, particularly the neuroscience community, whose work has real relevance and a lot of it is actionable now and so as I was saying this to him. I realized Oh, well, I guess I'll teach neuroscience on social media. And so and he held me anyhow Albany to it and very. His name is Pat. Voss it I'll just give a shout out to him because he was really the one that inspired me to do that and and you know a couple years later now. What's been really drilling for me? As how much interest there is in the brain, and you know this, of course because you host this podcast, but I think neuroscience is just such a vast area, but it has so much depth to it in there so much there that people. People want to understand in the brain is just such an interesting Oregon so I'm having a great time doing it and I love the interactions with the with audiences and again delighted to be here today to be able to expand on some of those themes. Yeah, absolutely and You have a very unique viewpoint because you're at the intersection of different areas that I feel like when I was explained to my girlfriend about what this podcast was going to be about I was like you know. A lot of our audience knows some of the basics. The term plasticity they know at least exists some people. They're not familiar with it, and they still think about fixed brain that we have a certain amount of brain cells, and then go downhill from there. It's twenty five. It's all downhill and we're lucky if we convinced Doku here and there to try to exercise our brain, so our audience knows that that's not true but. What I know that the education that you're bringing in comes in. It's like it's the next level in taking it a little bit deeper and making connections that we have not yet had a chance to come across, and I feel like one of the most foundational just ideas that you're bringing to the forefront year is just the role of vision and the brain, so to start with the basics that what is the connection between vision and the brain most would just think of while our rain tells her. Is You know what to look for or are is provide some information that our brain make sense out of, but it actually goes a lot deeper than more. Yes, though the the visual system is amazing. Right and we have a lot of sensory systems. We swell all year. We feel touch. Etcetera humans are so strongly dependent on Bishop in, but I think when we think about the normal ways in which we rely on vision, seeing objects, avoiding cars recognizing faces, we miss a lot of the even more or at least equally exciting aspects of visual science, so a couple of things about vision and the brain first of all. Your eyes have on the back of the most people know this a thin layer of of cells, a nerve cells, neurons, and those cells are brain. They are central nervous system, so the only part of your brain. That's outside, your skull or spinal cord. Your Retinas, so the is, aren't you? Know are sometimes called the window to the soul I don't know much about Seoul's because I don't work on them, but I definitely know that the is are two pieces of your brain that are outside your skull. You Go. Wow, that's kinda weird. Why would that be well turns out that the original job of the is was not to see objects and shapes and colors, and recognize faces the per the original purpose the. Ancient part of the retina was placed outside of the skull to be able to adjust the overall state of the rest of the nervous system. So I mean because my, if in order to feel touched chef to be in contact with something, sound waves can arrive and smells derived from a distance, but in humans the way that we adjust our overall levels of alertness where sleepiness or focus or States of mind is by our eyes, so the is aren't connected to the brain. The is our brain, so these two things in the front of my face are tool pieces of my brain that are out in the world, trying to figure out what the brain that's inside the skull of the central nervous system, which of course is inside, the spinal cord should do how alert they should be what they should pay attention to and all that other stuff so fundamentally the is are the brain and. Then you say well. How do how does this work? How do these little pieces of brain adjusts the state of the rest of the brain, and so the main way they do that is by paying attention to how bright it is out side, and how dark it is and win, so the Earth Spins once every twenty four hours. We know that and it's not a coincidence that every cell in the body from a liver. Liver Cell to a brain cell to retinal cell as o'clock all its gene expression programs are on a twenty four hour timer now. Not all the clocks are synchronised right sometimes, your liver needs to be more active than another part of your body. Your heart needs to be active twenty four hours day. You don't want your heart to shut down at night might slow, but you don't want to shut down, so there's this. Concept of the body is like this factory of all these different cells that all start and end some process on a twenty four hour cycle. The is have neurons that send information down the optic nerves to the central circadian clock. Right above the your mouth, all the super cosmetic nucleus, and the super size might nucleus coordinates the activity like the. Factory over you know it. Coordinates the activity of all the cells in the body said delivers active at the right times. A heart is active in particular ways of the right times, the neurons, the brain, etc, and the consequence of that is alert during the daytime, and I'm tend to get sleepy about six hours after I viewed that for sunlight so. In other words the is are pieces of brain that were designed to detect sunlight, because that's what us when it's daytime in the brain should be active and alert and metabolic process should be going one way, and when nighttime is happening, and so we're a series of timers, and the is are fundamentally important for that timing now. The next layer of sophistication in this visual system is related to. Very. Subconscious or purely subconscious things like as I walk through an environment and I experienced optic flow things passing by me. I don't even have to be conscious of those things, but as they flow past me, it signals to other parts of my brain that I'm moving, and therefore it triggers the balance system to how to keep my balance it actually and we can talk about this a little. Little bit more later it six send signals to the emotional centers of the brain to quiet down anxiety. So when we're in forward motion, it actually quiets the fear and anxiety circuits. There's a well now well known set of studies about five studies in the last few years in mice, and in humans, showing that this optic flow pattern generates a sub-conscious I movement from side to side. Side which quiets the middle of the threat detection center of the brain, which is why you've shared before the power of things that we all know well as like. Why do we feel so good when we're traveling? We're walking around new city. Why does it feel so good to take a walk? We're stressed because that's built inside of our nervous system. It feels like we're moving forward and. And it feels like we can handle any kind of threat or stress that we're dealing. Yeah, absolutely in this for the listeners may have heard of EMT are so I've movement sensitization reprocessing this as a therapeutic tool that's used in the clinic to deal with trauma and fear and anxiety where people move, there is from side to side which looks Kinda goofy. You know when you. Look at it from the perspective of well I'm just sitting still moving my eyes from side to side that's weird, but that mimics the forward movement of the body, and the body doesn't know the difference between whether or not You're actually moving through a physical environment by walking or whether or not you're just moving your eyes from side to side not underscores the fact that the is are the dominant force in driving these states of mind. The the centers of the brain don't actually know about the move into my limbs. They know about the movement of my is right and also. It's amazing and an I can't take any credit for the. Are you know I think you know? Francine Shapiro discovered that while taking a walk, she was a therapist. She was taking a walk. I think in the woods behind Palo, alto a where she lived at the time and. Realize that some of her anxiety was reduced by the walk and then. You know vertical eye movements, and keep your eyes closed and have the same effect, and she exported that to the clinic because it's hard to do therapy while people are walking walking, you'll walk side by side, but it's just not very practical for the typical. Therapeutic setting of zoom, or at that time you know. People met offices and held Therapy Sessions, so she MDR's anchored in this in this idea, and then you get into the ways in which the is envision are important for seeing objects what direction those objects are moving, and then eventually you got try chromosomes, which is a most people are unless. Colorblind, they see colors in this richness of color that conveys a lot of information besides just picking fruit, you always see the textbook. Examples of how much easier it is to pick out beautiful red apple compared to the green apples. She a lot of picking out. Fruit and vegetables is actually by smell. If you look at people in the supermarket I, guess before they had masks on they would smell things, but color is a very powerful cue for. Health metrics we can recognize when we're not quite the when we're offer not quite right based on skin, subtle variations in skin, tone, and things I- seen any in any case, the is are doing a lot and a lot more than than just vision actually I'll share a brief note about the. Circadian Biology in the sleep. Wake stuff Ali's. There's a guy of really impressive human being everyone should check them out. I've never met him in person but dining Dan. Man No who's a professional skateboarder who is blonde and He has retinitis Pigmentosa I've known Dan for a little while through conversation. I hurt learn about him. He's very impressive. Just checkout his stuff. He's doing incredible. incredibly inspirational and pop directly powerful work in advocacy for for blind populations anyway. Anyway, you know. And I were in contact because he was he was asking about sleep and sleep issues. A lot of people who are blind have issues with sleep because if they're lacking if they've had their eyes removed a replace for whatever reason or if they're lacking all the cells in the retina, including the cells that that signal time of day they have sleep issues, and but it turns out that for some people who are. Can't see their PA- completely pattern blind. They can still pursue at a subconscious level. The Retina can still perceive light coming in and can signal the circadian clocks and so chuck. Lab at Harvard Medical School showed that some not all blind people can improve their quality and depth and timing of sleep by viewing light, even though they can't see that light, and so you and I the same thing happens for you and I mentioned Dan, because you know. He and I are in conversations about how to get some of this information out to the what they call The low vision, community or people who are blind, but in any event I think that. Most people don't realize these two pieces of brain that we call the is in retina that are outside our skull are controlling a tremendous number of aspects of our lives, so optic flow is powerful getting into self-generated optic flow each day, walking, running or biking, driving doesn quite have the same effect, but my motorcycle riding probably dangerous for other reasons don't WanNa do that because we can have a discussion about spinal cord injury, but But getting morning. Light is just a powerful, and then of course nowadays people are walking looking at their phone, or they're really glued to their the screen of their phone while they're out walking or even exercising sometimes and then. What you do is. When you do that as you short circuit, the process of of relieving the anxiety that occurs with optic flow, so you know because the is are fixated. They're not moving from side to side. And then you ask well, people have all these sleep issues you know there's a lot of depression and sleep. Issues in those can be caused by a number of things, but my friend in San Marino tars lab at national. Institutes of Health and also David Berson at Brown University. If shown that the light that comes from the phone in the middle of the night from about eleven pm to four am. Suppresses dopamine release through a pathway involving a brain structure called Bob Aniela and can lead to memory defects. So now you start piecing together. The you know these things that we see in society like Oh. When I take a run, I feel better, or you know I'm just exhausted and Kinda stress and I wake up in the night I. Look at my phone can start tacking the vision science to these things that we know are problematic, and what's so cool is that the solutions lie in that in establishing those connections when? When you start realizing what what's happening, you can relieve a lot of sleep issues as Dan and I got into that conversation about what he might or might not be doing in terms of behavior or people who are waking up in the middle of the night, and they're trying to get back to sleep. I, look at their phone. And even though it's that nighttime setting, they're actively promoting depressive state to kick in about a day later and so you know there's a lot of links that I think are starting to. Establish themselves because of in part because social media, there's this convergence of information on podcast and social media and. You know at least I'm trying to put my head into that in such panda has been contributing a lot of former colleague of mine from the Salt Institute. Samatar is now on social media, and so these neuro-scientists are starting to raise their hands and say hey. I think I might know what's going on here. And maybe there's something we can do right now in order to alleviate these issues. I mean there's a few things to say on on that side. Interestingly enough. We have Eric. Wine Maher coming on the PODCAST, who was the first blind person to climb mount, Everest and He he has an organization. I know he's talked a little bit about some of these stuff, but he doesn't have the neuroscience piece to. Get them involved in that conversation? But going back to it? It's I. Often think about. One of my favorite spiritual thinkers philosophers is echoed Tola about this idea that it's in the nature of humanity to have had something, and we take it for granted just built into our nation. Grow up on the planes route in the jungle. Round the woods. We don't have to think about having better sleep. It's baked into our life. But then we lose this thing we lose it. Because of technology, we was because of advancements which brought a really beautiful things to our life, and then on the other end of it after we've used it. We have this yearning to figure out. Why is it been lost? And what can we do to bring it back? We find it, but we find it at a deeper level. We find that at a deeper level that helps us understand that we don't have to take for granted anymore, and I really think of your work through that Lens. It's not. These are. Somebody would listen to say wow, that like really makes sense, but it's a whole of the aspect to connect the pieces of science together or to do the studies, and really show people that this thing that seems very innocent. Using your night at using your phone at night can have all sorts of cascading implement implement Haitians the next day when it comes to your sleep, and by the way you touched on it, but not directly it's a lot deeper than just the blue light conversation right? Can you expand on that a little bit? You know a lot of people here have heard about blue light and importance of minimizing blue light, but it's not just about blue light. Yeah so what it's right. By mentioning Social Media at the beginning we see. chewed my brain to it, but you know there are a lot of crazy ideas in the world the biohacking there's just some downright crazy and some dangerous ideas, and at the same time there's some really great prompts from the field of biohacking and one of them. Is this whole issue of the color of light? Okay and I'm Moi's reluctant to get into this because I. Feel like I'm it? Sooner or later I'm an end up in a you know ahead combat with somebody who's really into like red light, therapy or something, and and my response is always. Look. Double Blind peer reviewed. Literature is important. It's not everything. You know oftentimes these esoteric practices or things were. There hasn't been a lot of published research. They're just not there yet. Right. I mean my beloved as respiration that was prompted by a lot of work that people are doing like oxygen. Vantage Brian Mackenzie Patrick McEwen Wim Hof like to mobry. There's you know they can. They can highlight certain things that science might WANNA. Take a closer look at. Now when it comes to blue light issue, this is especially. Salient, so here's here's the idea so. The light getting bright light in the middle of the night from eleven pm to four am triggers these pro depressive circuits through the Habibula. This eight J. B.. E. N. U., l., A. This interesting structuring the Thelma's in addition to that it's known to trigger a pathway from the Habibula to the pancreas that can star altering some blood sugar rhythms. A lot of people don't know this, but the Habibula connects to the pancreas, and actually in type, two diabetes, and in particular smoking induced type two diabetes. It appears that the Khabibulin pancreas pathway is involved. There's a beautiful paper published in nature not long ago. That illustrates that not my work. Another groups work. So. Blue Light in the midnight is going to be very effective at triggering these pro depressive circuits in disrupting the things that you want in a in a not so good way. Through the Khabibulin other pathways, but it turns out that blue light is not the culprit. It's the brightness of the light and the intensity light that matters most you can have a bright white light or a bright red light, and still get these negative effects now the reason for that is that early in the day. which is when you want it shortly. Shortly after waking, even if it's still dark out, but certainly wants the sun is up you wanNA. Get some bright light in your eyes, ideally from sunlight early in the day. Here's why early in the day the sensitivity to light for the retina is low, so you need a lot of bright light in the morning in order to stimulate the pathways correctly. As nighttime approaches, and especially when you've been asleep for a few hours, the sensitivity of the retina goes up. So this is something that is often discussed, but there's a there's a circadian rhythm to sensitivity of the retina, so that very low levels of light regardless of color can trigger these negative effects in the middle of the night, but they wouldn't be sufficient to induce the positive effects during the daytime, so it's kind of a double edged sword there. So what do you do well first of all? I want to be clear that viewing you know bathroom light in the middle of the night if you have to go to, the bathroom is not the end of the world is not gonNA. Make you depressed I. Mean you on consist of your viewing bright light the night on a consistent basis. That's not good regardless of. Of, color but for people that think that they can get away with just using amber lights or Red Lights, and still be okay. That's probably not true. In in the wee hours of the morning between eleven pm to four m kind of a broad area there, but a timeframe rather, but I think really midnight to three a m. you wanna avoid bright light. Blue blockers are big deal now I read a lot of it ruins crazy about blue blockers, and they will help mitigate some of the effects, but I had Samatar head of the chronobiology unit. National Institutes of Health on my instagram. We didn't instagram live and he thinks that mostly affects the blue blockers are just filtering out brightness of light, and he actually has concerns about doing very narrow band or narrow wavelength filtering of light. That's a very unusual situation for the visual system to be in to take out one band of light for significant portions of the day. so am I anti blue-blocker? No I was worried like are the in east is going to come after me. Okay maybe. We can have a discussion. I think they can help but I. it's really not about blue light now as long as we're talking about the color of light, it always comes up well. What do you think about these bright light things in the morning to get really bright red light? Typically, it's a sheet of red lights again. I, don't think it has anything to do with the red light. I think it has to do with the brightness, and then I usually get attacked by the Mitochondria will folks and their go. Yeah, but. But, what about the effects of red light on my and go? Okay, that's a separate conversation so I want to be really clear that what I'm discussing here is the brightness of light is the key parameter avoid bright lights in the middle of the night. Get Bright, light early in the day, ideally from sunlight so really bright during the day cave like at night is ideal. No one's perfect, but think of that as your perfect diet. No one's perfect with their diet either as far as I know so. You know play around that kind of person scenario and do the best that you can and working. On a practical level when you're winding down at night, right, you're talking about eleven twelve. I usually go to bed around. Let's say ten thirty. Ten thirty eleven so as I'm starting to wind down for bed and the start to think around nine o'clock. Are there things that you do on a practical level in your own home that start to help that process. Definitely, so one of the things you can do is to make whatever lights you have in your environment low in the physical environment meaning not over headlights. The reason is is that the retinal cells called Mellon ops in intrinsically photosensitive ganglion cells that pay attention to the kinds of cues. Cues that reset your circadian rhythm and Can Alter Your Circadian Rhythm are in the lower half of your eye, and so they view the upper visual field. They designed to look at the sky so overhead lights are going to more strongly stimulate your circadian system in these all these systems, then lights that are set on tables or that are lamps that are about head height in the room. and. A subtle effect is actually quite large effect, and actually you can use that to your advantage early in the day earlier in the day. Let's say wake up before the sudden rise, and you WANNA. Wake up, or you have seasonal depression and you want to get more light in order to feel happier in the winter months especially if you live at you, know in Scandinavia or someplace, where far north you WanNa turn on a lot of overhead lights and. As nighttime approaches you want to shut off overhead lights and use dimmer lights that are set lower in the room. They don't have to be floor lights. It doesn't have to be like airplane or or movie theater style. Though that would be cool if you could do that in your home. Maybe someone will do that. Maybe Greenwich. Ben Greenfield probably does that. Like kind of taken biohacking extreme, and and and again I tip my hat to them, because it's kind of cool to see what people are willing to do, and how far they're willing to push this stuff, but short of putting floor lights in for the nighttime overhead lights for the daytime in your home you can set desk, lamps and dim amber light tends to be softest, the softer lights and so dim amber light is great. Candlelight is fine. Thank goodness, fireplace, fine, thank goodness. There is a beautiful study that was done by the Group of the University of Colorado that took graduate students camping, but what's. Supposed to be cool to be a subject in this experiment, what the end they published in current biology, so appear reviewed really really strong paper. They published several these actually what's cool is they looked at students to have been studying a lot on tablets and laptops, and been on their phones and have disrupted cortisol rhythms and Melatonin ribs. You want quarters at all higher in the morning. And then it tapers off. Evening comes around and then Melatonin comes up usually about sixteen hours after you got that morning. Your brightest light of the day. So melatonins that makes you sleepy helps you fall asleep. Does Endogenous Melatonin not supplemented Melatonin? These students had disrupted Cortisol Melatonin rhythms I think they've been studying for exams, so they took them camping and away from devices, and let them just use flashlights and campfire, and that kind of thing for a weekend and it completely reset. Their Cortisol and their melatonin rhythms to the correct healthy pattern, and that lasted quite a while so I want to emphasize that in a one night of a messed up sleep where you turn on the lights, you have to young God forbid drive to the hospital or something like that. It's not gonNA screw you up long-term. It's the consistent light viewing in the middle of the night and the consistent like doing early in the day. That sets you up for poor in great. You know feeling and and wellbeing respectively so. It's your average behavior. Just like Diet. Just like nutrition. It's the average. Eat a you know something really sugary. Is it gonNA completely dismantle my health? No, because you know not diabetic and chances are not going to disrupt me much. What am I do on a consistent basis? It's going to start to dismantle my health, so, but I could just interject. The one thing that was that was quite. Inspiring by that study, obviously, it's just one study with a group of college students that are there, but it's inspiring to know that just one weekend of going out and camping could be part of that reset process so for anybody who feels like that is me as they're listening to you and they're thinking about the overhead lighting their bathroom, or they're thinking about the over headlight stare or the constant sort of work exposure computer exposure that they've had built up bad habits to the process. It could even be that. Maybe try going for weekend camping and seeing how that feels in how you respond to that. Yeah, it's interesting when people have sleep issues, the first thing I say is not drinking caffeine late in the day. Are you keeping in the room? Cool at night that stuff. Sure that's important. You don't drink coffee PM and expect to sleep well less. Some people can do that. Most people can't but. I always say. Are you getting sunlight in your eyes within an hour of waking up and people always think I mean you have to watch the sun rise across the horizon I. Don't do that, but it's low, so the cells in your I that that send all these good signals during the day or looking for what's called low solar angle, so they're looking for when the sun is low relative to the horizon, but does have to just be crossing the horizon. Usually, they say no I said you see sunlight before you see your phone. For screen light usually they say no, and so I said well just try and get to ten minutes to sunlight and say what's cloudy where I live I. Don't live in Sunny California like you do. There are so many photons coming through cloud cover. It's amazed and far more than her. Coming from one of these into indoor lights. Some people say wait visit. Indoor lights are bad for me, but they're not even writing enough to stimulate my clock, but remember during the day. The sensitivity of your eye is low. You need a lot of bright light and at night, the sensitivity of your eyes high, which means it doesn't take much bright light from an artificial source of you really WanNa. Get geeky about this for the foul hacker types out there there's a free APP I have no relationship to them, but never met them. Don't who they are, but It's called. Lux APP were Locks meter, and so so you can go outside on a cloudy day, and you can pointed to the sky, and it'll show you even on a really overcast day Seattle unless you're in the depth of winter. They're more photons coming through. Then there would be for a really bright indoor light, and so in the morning you might need some artificial sources to supplement that bright light or the outdoor light, rather if you live in Seattle in the depths of winter or Sweden in the depths of winter, but really what you need to do is get outside and get some natural light in your eyes. Eyes within the first hour waking, and that sets your sleep timer and most people find that that one shift can really help, and then of course they all flights the night. There's one other little tip that I can be helpful. Nobody's perfect and a lot of us including me wake up in the middle of the night. Use Restroom. Maybe period our phone. Osama who are who is this guy I mentioned who runs the Chronobiology Unit we've traveled a lot together because we're good friends. We're GONNA conferences and he's always looking at his phone in the middle of the night like putting it away. Like. It doesn't work that way and he goes. Oh I. Know I know I, know, and so you know we know this stuff and we screw up to ride. Nobody's. But what you can do is if you can see a little bit of sunlight in the evening, when low solar angle is happening, because the sun is setting member you don't to look directly at the sun doesn't have to be new in the eyes, but getting outside and getting those photons reflecting off surfaces, and may even direct light if you're lucky like a sunset. It offsets the negative effects of light in the middle of the night, and none of his on is a beautiful paper those published in scientific reports it shows that it protects you against some of the negative effects of artificial light and the night. Anyway Do things on a regular basis just like if you. Follow a relatively healthy diet that means different things to different people. But since you know, everyone's got their concept that is, if you do most of the right things most of the time you're GonNa do far better on sleep wakefulness mood. Immune system metabolism blood sugar regulation. Focus I mean it's it's a foundational layer of health and I wish we heard more about it out there, but the so much science to support it now, and it's very easy, and it's all cost-free if you think about, it is nice single item that you need. And that's the beauty of of you coming on and talking about this and of hers you, another interviews talk about it to to the extent that people said what's the one thing that you would do recommanded you share that? Getting light in the morning is the one thing that I'd recommend for people for the health, because often sometimes it's. It's in the nature of sometimes very brilliant people that we've had in the podcast and functional medicine doctors who naturally know lot and work with very complicated patients who have a lot going on and can feel like we have to do all these components. We have to make sure that caffeine doesn't happen at this time to make sure that we don't eat late. We have to make sure this and then for somebody who's just getting started out, they may feel or sometimes people have done all those and feel like they can't maintain the habits the habits of those successfully. I do think it's important to talk about prioritization and the prioritization of something that they could try. That's available to them. That has cascading effects throughout the day so that we can get the biggest bang. That's their goal. Is We study all this information for most of here? Who didn't go to school for this? Don't have a degree for which is me and most of my audiences listening. We study so that we don't have to think. Think about it later on so that we can have our health to give love and attention to all the things that we care about life, which means volunteering for our local church or community, or whatever it might be giving back raising awareness amount of subject. That's there so knowing where to put that priority and to try to see if it can work for us, I do think is a great distinction. I appreciate you bring up. A, you're. Like what are the few things that are really going to move? The needle and I think morning light. Is that thing when it comes to nervous system, function and health overall. We've heard so many things about you know. People should be doing crossword puzzles in things. Know, keep their memory into into old age in. These light behaviors are foundational. They set the stage for everything else. trying really try hard to get that to ten minutes of light outside. Ideally do it. Walking's I would even better you get a little bit of optic flow. People Who Work Shift Work and work nights is an interesting one. You know the three recommendations. I can make really quickly. Then it's probably a whole other discussion on shift work, but. Try and stay on the same schedule for two weeks or more at a time. These systems get really disrupted when you're nocturnal, then you're. You're up in the day working their day. Then you're looking at night. If you're working the night shift, still try and see the sunrise or get some lightning. Your is in the morning and in the evening. Because what you're trying to do is you're trying to keep your biology all these cells in your body. You're trying to anchor them to something consistent, and what's the most consistent thing in the universe? At least from the perspective of a human is this twenty four hour spin of the earth? Meal timing some people find you can anchor to mealtime. Try and keep mealtime inconsistent, but that gets hard especially. If you have kids demanding schedule, whatever it is, meal timing can get tricky, so it's light is the primary timekeeper for all the cells in your body, and when I say all the celts I mean even the gene expression patterns are regulated by the Canadian clock genes, and so the see the morning light. See the evening light. If you have a weird, really wonky schedule, people always say. Should I wake up just to see the Probably I mean provided you can go. Go back to sleep you. WanNa give your brainier nervous system has many uses as they can, so it's sort of like I'm not i. don't personally do intermittent fasting but I. don't eat while I'm sleeping and I don't eat early when I wake up. Because I'm just not hungry, it's sort of like in the world of nutrition. There's a lot of argument about what macro nutrient ratios are ideal for know, carnivore, vegan balanced whatever there's a lot of discussion about this outside, my wheelhouse, but what I think is interesting about the concept of time circadian time, eating or intermittent fasting sometimes called. Is that it's it's sort of anchors, things around a few core behaviors, and then a lot of other things stemmed from it, and I look at light viewing in the morning as Equivalent to that it sets the stage for a lot of other things to work correctly an accuser attention, but it doesn't overwhelm your attention like you said you can focus on the things you do. You're not biohacking all day long and all night. Just trying to get everything right, because then it's just you. Don't WanNa life where you're just trying to tune yourself all the time you want. Want to use this body in mind to go. Do something powerful in the world. If you're a professional bio hacker, and that's we get paid for your. You're the exception, not the rule for the rest of us. We want to feel great. Be Healthy, and no, we're doing the right things without having invest a ton of time and money and energy into it, and like viewing is that. And I think it's it's powerful that when you can come, and you can summarize the science. That's their dense starts to feel like. Wow, this thing that so basic cost-free that have access to is so foundational. Let me not take it for granted just because. It's not a ninety day program or a requires a device or something else. That's out there and I think to get that. We need that explanation. We need that understanding, so thank you again for providing that. You know so much of what you've been talking about. Around vision and laying the foundation, an understanding between vision, and the brain is really about giving credit to the nervous system, and I've heard you in some of your videos and other podcasts. We've done that. We know a little bit about the the nervous system, but at a time right now where everybody's talking about the immune system, we don't give the nervous system as much threaded for the role that plays in so many different functions inside of the body, so just like you did with vision help us understand some of the foundational aspects that would take us deeper into rabbit hole that we understand the nervous system, and just how powerful it is with with all aspects of our of our existence. Yes so the nervous system is the system in your body that organizes all the other organs, so there is no heartbeat without the nervous system and believe it or not no activation of your immune system without the nervous system. I'll just use that as an opportunity that we can go into more depth in a couple of minutes, but if you've ever had the experience of being, you know very very busy working really hard, taking care of somebody else or just are studying or working hard, and then you stop and you finally rest, and then you get sick. That's because when you're nervous. System is activated his in a mode of stress. It stimulates the. The immune system to liberate cells at gobble up immune invade back area and viral particles, and and so in other words stress actually enhances the effect of the system. Everyone gets his backwards. Because we've chronic stress can deplete immune system, and that's true, but in the short term weeks to months, and that's actually short term for the nervous system, and for the system, being in this heightened state of stress is gonNA protect you. At some level, because it's through nerve cells, nerve connections to the immune, the organs that make these immune cells the spleen and miss another's even the marrow of your bones. It stimulates them to say what this is. A time of stress I. Need I need defenses up. I can't be asleep at the wheel here, so that's one example of how the nervous system triggers the activation of the immune system. Should you seek stressed well? Maybe maybe not I mean. If you're chronically stressed, you also went out with some tools to lower your stress so just like heart rate. Rate, variability is good. You don't want your heart rate high or low all the time. We now know this. You don't want your stress level to be high or low all the time you want it going up and down so if you get these bouts estrus every once in a while, you can stay awhile. Maybe that's going to help me a little bit in fact if you look at. Intense breathing protocols to mow breathing or know. Boxing nation reading that looks like. You're doing that for short rounds of twenty, five or thirty has been shown to enhance immune system function in the short term, actually can protect against certain forms of bacterial injections where control group Scott Fever and vomiting, and the did, the breathing were protected. They were as symptomatic amazing, and there's published. Imposing is the National Academy of Sciences by Lewd Gestures Group is. Real stuff same thing with like the cold showers in the ice baths. Some people like them. Some people don't but that or Amec's or the idea that small amounts of stress can protect you. That's all media by the nervous. Systems affect on the immune system. Okay, so then you say well. What other things the nervous system doing well. The nurse systems main role. is to. Establish an internal state of alertness of immunity of digestion and match that to what's happening in the outside world, so we're able to sense odors that come in from a distance. They don't have to there. We don't put those smells up. Our knows you're not going rose petals up your nose. You're smelling them at a distance because there are what we call volatile molecules that come in I, can see things because photons of light or balancing things like sound waves radiating in. Touches different because asked to come into contact tastes different disaster come into contact, but the nervous system is taking all that information, although sensations in creating perceptions, we got sensation perception, which is which of those sensations I'm paying attention to, so if I say, how do the bottoms of your feet feel right now? What are they in contact with? You'll think about that, but a moment ago I doubt you're thinking about that most likely. No, so the sensation was happening. Nonetheless, your feet were experiencing that you shifted your attention to it. It's your perception is now about that touch perception so? So you've got the spotlight of attention that moves around and lead your perception, and what's cool about that spotlight attention, it can dighly, and it can contract so I can focus on the pain in my shoulder I can dilate my attention to what's going on on the planet Earth Right now pointing twenty, so it's kind of interesting you know. The the nervous system can dilating contract. That's a very powerful trumpet, sensation perception, and we have these emotions which largely are the reflection of how well our internal state is matched our external environment, so let's say you get off the subway. We're going to go to conference and I'm exhausted. Because I flew in the all nighter. Over you know and you got a couple of days earlier. You're like Oh. Let's go go go in and I'm just dragging I'm gonNA feel not well and kind of blow because I'm not matched to my environment back in my hotel and I was just relaxing. I'd probably be pretty happy because I'm tired, but it's appropriate for my environment, so the nervous system and what we call moods and feelings are imbedded in that context, so we got sensations, perceptions feelings, then we have thoughts and thoughts are a little bit vague, but thoughts should probably be thought of, or should we. We should conceptualize them rather more like actions. I can pick up a coffee mug and drink from it a thought. They spontaneously happened all the time. I'm not really controlling them, but if I want to have thought for instance I can say I'm GonNa. Think about Of that I don't know what the capital of. Zimbabwe is like I. Don't and so I can just I can introduce a thought so thoughts are happening all the time, but they can be deliberately introduced as well and then we have actions, and the nervous system is designed to organize behavior, which of course, voluntary or involuntary most of the time it's involuntary walking around. Walker I walk up so. To just short put to. Other points on the so sensation perception feeling thought action the nurses controlling immunity. It's controlling the heartbeat. It's controlling the breathing. Some of that stuff is voluntary in some it is not. Let's just think about which stuff isn't. which isn't. The brain is really good at learning stuff during childhood, and then passing that stuff off to the circuits in the body and I, what I mean by circuits are connections between nerve cells and organs to make it reflexive so I get up and walk to the kitchen and get a glass of water I. Don't have to think about it too much. The things that we don't know much about. I call. Duration Path and outcome events, so the brain has to work very hard, sometimes to figure out duration path and outcome of things that we don't understand still covid nineteen. What is going on here? What is this thing? Where did it come from Wednesday How long do we need masks Wednesday vaccine? Does it matter all these kinds of conversations are absorbing a lot of our attention because the reflexive stuff. Is Very. Easy for the brain once. A kid learns how to walk. It's easy. You just walk unless to suffer spun. According to you, just walk. Once you know how to eat. You just eat, but a baby learning how to eat spaghetti is a hilarious thing like you stuff all over their face, so when we are presented with something that we don't understand, but that we need to navigate the attentional mechanisms to the brain shift to a very narrow sphere of attention, and it becomes all about out duration path outcome. and that's the other mode the brain the and that's the strain mental effort that you have to put into learning something or listening to somebody especially when they're telling you something. That's kind of unpleasant. That's the effort that goes into learning a new physical skill. It's the effort that goes into trying to figure out what you're. GonNa do with your life for you're going to do with a relationship where you're gonNA. Y, you're not feeling well. What should do or why? You're feeling great? What what led to that so duration path? Outcome is work at an commpany by. A sensation of agitation and sometimes frustration in the body because. It involves signals from the brain to the body to prep yourself for things and get ready. It's a kind of readiness, and so the reason I mentioned this in response to your question was the nervous system do is when we are not certain duration path and outcome of an event during our media environment in the long scale environment. Like House Twenty Twenty and end. Who's going to win the election? I don't know you don't know, but we can start to analyze the various components. When we do that. It creates a sense in our body that something's different something's changing. A lot of people confuse that for stress, agitation and Pain when actually it's just you're trying to learn the learning. Process involves an uptick in molecules nor epinephrine, which is also equivalent. It's it is Adrenalin which makes you feel kinda agitated in like something's going to happen. That's why it's hard to sometimes focus so I mentioned in this because I think that. Our brain is really going to be reflexive. At least once we've learned things, and when it's in non reflexive mode, it's a post to be hard to focus. It's supposed to be hard to maintain. Active energy toward process people I think the I. Hear this all the time. I've got add. I've got each adhd. People say this about themselves, and they may have clinically diagnosed add. But a lot of people don't understand that the learning process itself is supposed to feel a little not good until you actually get it because it's that's the way that your system is signaling that something is different, and the your brain needs to work differently, and so I offer that to people because I think a lot of people are like I, don't. My memory's not very good or I. Forgetting things do I have dementia, maybe but more than likely. In most cases, people are just not informed. Told them that their brain and the nervous system is trying to get them into action. Go figure things out and their wondering why it feels so terrible, but confusion agitation stress frustration, those are the beautiful mechanisms in the brain that prompt you to Lur your learn rich which you talk about, even as you get older it, it is more difficult. Right could not the same way that your child and you just absorbed things. You of have to work on it. Because in a way, your mind has gotten good at skiing down certain slopes, and you wanted to understand something new. It's GonNa take a different level of concentration. It's GonNa. GonNa take a different level of energy to try to bring in a new a new thought. Now once you step into that and you understand the role of neuro plasticity, and how to take advantage of it. You can do other things, too. I've heard you in other interviews on instagram videos. You've talked about you can do things like. How can you hack the process of learning? So that it's actually one you look forward to the FA you. You're not surprised at the fact that it's not that it's a little uncomfortable right, so that's the first thing is that you're not surprised so that when it happens, you don't feel like. discombobulated and the second aspect is how can you actually create little releases of dopamine along the way for the learning process so that you can lean into it and actually starts to feel better through that can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah. So so we've got neuro plus to see on the one hand we get growth mindset on the other. What we're GONNA do now is we're going to merge them and put some neural science concepts to to the glue between them, so growth mindset is obviously not might discovery. This is the discovery of Caroline direct my colleague in the Psychology Department. WHO found that? There's a subset of kids that really enjoyed doing math problems. They knew they couldn't saw they could not fail. They, were sure failed math problems so these kids? Get very good at math. Even though they can't solve these problems, because for them the pleasure the dopamine release is from trying to figure out. They look the same people who love puzzles, and they get a thrill from the process of being confused and trying to work through the puzzle fitting. The puzzle pieces in that process so. It's also the concept that our brain is not fixed, and that the moment my that works one way, but that I could through to get to work better at something some task, some motor performance whatever it is, you WANNA learn. Neural plasticity during childhood is very robust. The whole chemical mill you of the brain is established to allow our environment and our experience to just passively wire our brain so that it is customized to the habitat in the experience is that we are in as a child? As we transition to adulthood meaning about eight five onward. The physical connections between neurons synapses. Cemented into place by extra seller Matrix there things like conjoined sulfate produce Gleich Ganz and purring role nets, and you know for the autos out there. There's a lot of cool stuff that's expressed around neurons that make sure that they don't move around too much. In order to get plasticine adulthood, you need a chemical signal to come in and say change these synapses, and it has to be very localized and that chemical signal. Can Be Dopamine but most often, it's a CD calling and calling comes from two major sources in the brain, brainstorm and nucleus. Basil Bring. And it's released when we pay very close attention to something, and it marks like highlighter pen that marks the synapses that then twenty four forty eight hours later will be strengthened, and that strengthening is the learning process. In other words if we WANNA learn as adults, we have to be very alert, and we have to at least be very focused on what we're trying to learn. You cannot learn passively in adulthood now there's plasticine adulthood. That's maladaptive, so if I get hit on. With a brick there's going to be plasticity, but that's maladaptive plasticity so I. Just WanNa be clear. It's past which is going to happen. I don't have to think about brick just going to happen. But adaptive plasticity, or what I call self directed adoptive class to see has to be self. In order to change our brains in adulthood for the better we meaning the person that's experiencing the brain change has to be the one directing that change. I cannot change your brain for the better just by telling you something you are you control the gate to that and yet that gate is attention. and. How do we do this? Like? How do you think? How should we think about plasticine adulthood well? that. We should try and learn things by engaging in very short bouts of focused attention. People say how long as long as you can maintain focused attention. The good news is the circuits for for focus. Themselves are amenable to plasticity and you get better at focusing. Now their data to support this, so I just WanNa. Tip My hat to those data ERC Knudsen's lab. He's now retired, but in the neurology department at Stanford had a couple of decades worth of work showing that. Adults can learn as well as much as youngsters juvenile's. If you take the learning and break it up into short bouts. Mix. Suspense you're chunking. And you can probably maintain focus for short periods of time better than you can long periods of time as an adult. Great, but then he also showed something incredible. He showed that. If the learning is the only way you eat in other words, it's critical for survival. You can learn as much as you did in Childhood in one about. And that tells us something. Will say okay. What am I gonNA? Do put a gun to my head. No police, both but what that tells us is that there's a neuro chemical signature of urgency that urgency signal converges with the focus signal and reopens plasticity for that thing. So. People the vast literature in wellness you know. Should learning and motivation be from a place of fear. Should it be from a place of love? You know what nor chemically doesn't matter. It just has to feel urgent. Let's say I write you a check or read a check to an organization that I hate for ten thousand dollars and I. Give it to you and I say I'm GONNA learn conversational French by next week where I want you to send that. Check off and I. Want you to publicly acknowledged that I made that. That checkout group X that I dislike very much. That's a strong incentive. It's a punishment incentive and I'll work very hard. It will work or I could say you know what I really WanNa. Learn conversational French, because I'm a travel to France. It's really important to me and I'm GonNa create some reward incentive, not punishment incentives doesn't matter. The point is that I'm gonNA. Focus and I'm going to do the work and people. It's interesting I offer this information on instagram and people always say well. What can I take like? How do I get more focus well? Acetylcholine is the source of focus. You could take things that are going to promote acetylcholine release. Eat, a few more nuts, 'cause they have choline. Maybe Take L. Carnitine, subtle effects, very subtle and general, because it's across the board. Nothing's going to work like to focus like focus, and that's the kind of Stinger in this and people say well I have a hard time focusing will, but that's where people get confused because the agitation, and the fact that your mind is drifting from time to time. Everybody experiences that I have good friends with Steven Kotler and I. Really appreciate all his work on flow I think the work from cheeks. High on flow is really great, but these what I call highly desirable states like flow. They've captured our excitement to the point. Where we think that learning is supposed to be flowing, no blur earning is effort and strain and grinding through and refocusing and refocusing and refocusing. And it's not a linear process as you're GONNA get little glimpses of focus in a focus session, and that's going to trigger plasticity. Now there's something important, which is the growth mindset, the growth mindset and If I could clarify one thing that you were saying it's. It's also that more of it strengthens that muscle, so we have to think of focus like a muscle right, so it's the practicing of it and I've heard you say we'll focus for as long as as you can. And then you take it a little bit further, right? That's the powerful aspect of deadline having an interview each week to get prepared for. You have to learn things that you typically wouldn't learn because you have an interview. It's spending you'd. You'd better ask questions because if you don't you don't understand some of the material. You'RE GONNA. Look like you know like you don't know what's going on. So this is the power of self, inflicted deadlines, or urgency's that we create in our life or accountability that help us learn things that we typically we had all the time in the world, and we didn't have to learn it then. We may not learn it in that way that we needed to. Absolutely and you get, you can get better at the I'll talk about some of the tools. I'm going to an instagram series on this, but I'll talk about it here for the first time about what you act. I'll talk about some things that I do, and that are supported by research in terms of Tim. Hands Focus I wanted just 'cause you mentioned dopamine, yeah. There is a there is a second portal through this process, and that's when so the focus and effort regime effort is mainly north and effort and adrenaline in the body alertness in effort. A Seato calling. Is that spotlight of attention? This is why taking things to enhance focus generally increases norepinephrine and. Caffeine will increase norepinephrine. Make you more alert, but you know if you're to alert, it's hard to focus, so there's that you know finish. Think of it like a mountain that has got you know like a shallow climb, and then there's a there's a top and then a steep drop off. If you're too agitated, you know and your deadline has to close. It's actually gonNA. Be Harder to work so sometimes it sharpens you sometimes it distracts you, so it's a sweet spot. Talk about how to get into that and move through those into those sweet spots more more regularly. Growth Mindset is really about attaching the sense of reward. To the effort process to learning how to have that low level, maybe even high level of education, your body, and realizing this is me getting better, or I am prime to get better. My nervous system is now ready to engage in neural plasticity and dopamine is discussed in terms of reward you know getting a degree or you know finding a life, mate, or mating itself, or and it is associated with all those things. That's how Mother Nature wired in these very generic reward mechanisms for many different types of wins, depending on your life goals and circumstances. However, dopamine is also more like a jet engine. That gets you to the next goal. It's A. Readout of whether or not you're on the right track or not, so let's think about an animal. That's Hungary such as think of some foraging animal I dunno, a deer or something and wakes up from a nap, and and it's hungry. It experiences that hunger is agitation Adrenalin it starts wandering I'm looking for stress stress to the bottom low level. That's right low levels at first, but after a couple days it's going to become quite agitated, okay? At some point, it smells something in the distance. It's going to get a little pulse of dopamine is like I might be on the right track, and now it makes it to a berry patch, and maybe it gets a little bit of sustenance from that before it moves onto another place, so dopamine is secreted. Along the way to our goals and sure big wins you winning the Super Bowl or your candidate wins the election, or whatever sure big Russia dopamine. But most of what nobody is responsible for is keeping helping. Stay on track. Find the right tracks. Stay on, those trails. So when you find yourself in effort and strain in the learning, process or an a personal development process, maybe you're trying to remove trump a trauma. You're going to work through that. In whatever way you do, maybe gm our trauma releaser working with therapists. You should also periodically award yourself for the fact that you're doing now. If you're in a fitness regime, you're trying to eat better. Reward yourself for the fact that you're doing that. You're leaning into the effort process. You can even learn to attach reward to the sense of hunger, knowing that a little bit of Hong Hunger for certain periods of the day is probably good for some of the seller repair mechanisms that lead to longevity. David Sinclair Rush. You know in Clarion type of thinking in science which is well supported by science so. And others of course, so I think that these reward mechanisms can be attached to anything because a it's completely cognitive and be remember. Rewards are always internal. You don't actually take. And stuff it in your brain, and that triggers the release of dopamine. It's your association to it, so people always challenge this and they say well. That's just positive. Self talk, but this is what I'm talking about is the opposite of positive self. Talk I'm not talking about saying you know what I can barely perform the task that I'm trying to do, and that's great. That's terrific. It is not about attaching the sense of reward to the ultimate goal. It's about attaching the sense of. Of rewards the effort process itself. That's GONNA. Lead you to the goal and in order to do that. You have to shorten the horizon. You have to bring the horizon in closer and understand why you're engaging in this process at all, and so it's subtle, but it involves not just you know journey. Thousand Miles starts with a single step. How do you elephant one bite at a time? It means relishing each byte just enough to get you to the next bite and the next by. A little bit of gratitude for yourself for the fact that you have accomplished something that was scary. If you've never done instagram videos like yourself, and you're even opening up the iphone posting something small like congratulating yourself. Could that be part of the process? Absolutely, it's your. You have to reward yourself for the fact that you're making the effort to get better, even though you might not have gotten better, and in fact, last night I experienced this I'll just tell you so this week was interesting I was. was onto h panels was getting up at six in the morning. Beyond those long zooms, I was doing a lot of things. ground myself down and last night I found myself at ten thirty at night, just very resentful like exhausted. I've just this week. Was it just wasn't as panels as a ton of stuff? Just we had a family birthday, and that went really well, but it was lot of commuting lot of lot of effort and I was, nor epinephrine maxed out just maxed out. And, I started laughing at myself because I thought. This is exactly the opportunity like I'm doing all the things that I love I. Love Reviewing grants. Frankly I love writing a malev reviewing him I don't know I'm sick, oh but. Doing family of seventy fifth birthday in our family, a the opportunity I got a couple of good workouts during the week. As many as I would have liked I started realizing how lucky I am to be able to lean into all this action and all of a sudden. I'm good. And it's funny because. People underestimate the value of gratitude and reflecting on the effort process. It wasn't that everything went spectacularly well, something's went better than others it's. When you reward the effort, process resets you. Humor resets you because gratitude resets you because it's neurochemical. It's not when people say it's just cycle. It's psychological. No, it's actually the release of dopamine which we know suppresses the noradrenaline circuits and gives you more room to lean back in the effort, and you know it's. The opposite way to go is. Still. Just keep trickling out nor epinephrine. I think we've made too much grit. And sort of these mindsets of leaning in and effort without thinking about what actually controls the valve on Britain resume, what has actually wanted intrinsically want to keep on moving forward because it has to feel good, and and for anybody else that there's this thing, so this is just PAS positive psychology. It's like well. Our thoughts are actually things as you were saying earlier there like actual things that are there in our body is a chemical process that's happening. It's it's was designed that way for reason, and if we can understand role that gratitude has you. You know we had a bj fog on the podcast recently from also Stanford and he's talking about the number one reason why people don't keep up or make something habit is that they don't reward themselves along the way in addition to all the other components, so just the fact that we are willing to reward ourselves through gratitude through reflection, and saying you know what I'm trying something hard. It's difficult, but I'm proud today. Because I took that step or I did this particular thing, those things are meaningful and will have us continue is what I'm hearing. Yeah absolutely you know, it's hard as suppress thoughts. Don't expect that of yourself. I have negative thoughts. Everyone has negative thoughts. But you can introduce positive thoughts on top of those in that state, those stimulate the neurochemical systems that I'm referring to these are real entities that were were born with their in our genome encoded for. You don't have to learn how to use them. Really. They're available. Once you at any point once you realize that they're available. And these were designed to evolve our species. These were designed to get that deer, food and water. They were designed to get you through a learning process you through hard process of any kind. I think that a lot of people they feel that. Agitate strain in confusion, and it scares them at freaks them out. And they back away from it, and that is the portal to plasticity and neuro. PLASTICITY is Mother Nature's gift to us that we have that our entire lifespan. It's actually a good thing that we don't have plasticity like we do in childhood throughout the lifespan, because we would never actually be able to pass anything off to reflexive behavior would be so metabolic demanding. We'd have to spend all our time consuming nutrients, we would actually have evolved our species, so you're not spending time with tool development and doing other things so. It's very important that people understand focus, and then that the actual rewiring occurs during sleep and other forms of rest so slow wave sleep in particular not REMM. Sleep, but slow wave sleep in particular is when a lot of the restructuring of the connections in the brain is happening. That were triggered by the focus event. So plasticity is a process you trigger it, and then in occurs later the other times it occurs are in. Twenty minute naps. This was shown in recent paper in cell reports, beautiful paper in humans learning spatial task. Twenty minute naps that are shallow naps. Enhance the speed and depth of that learning. I'm a big proponent of a practice that some people call Yoga Nedra and ID are a which involves lying down and just listening to a sort of a relaxation script. I do this for ten to thirty minutes a day. For two reasons one is it gets you better at relaxing? You makes you a better sleeper makes it easier to fall and stay asleep. The other reason is there was a study done at University of Copenhagen Denmark showing that he's ten to thirty minute deep relaxed ballots which are not meditation. You're not focusing on anything. You're actively unfocused in fact. They can enhance some of the dopamine in the brain circuits that are useful for action and action, planning learning, and so if I don't sleep well, I'll do a thirty minute yoga drifting when I wake up or sometimes in the afternoon i. find it very restorative. I fundamentally disagree with my colleagues that you can't restore. Sleep that you missed. I don't know about the sleeps restoring the sleep state, but I know that cognitive function can be enhanced and even restored by these periods of depressed which are different than meditation. If you're interested in this that you just put a youtube, there are number of APPs out. There were a lot different scripts, some one voice or another. I happen to like the voice of Her last name is decide D., e., S., Y. and there. She has an APP as well, but if you go to youtube and you say Yogindra decide. They're a bunch of scripts summer ten minutes summer thirty minutes. They involve a little bit of the kind of Let's be fair you know sort of a new agey kind of language around that's Kinda puts off certain people, but really all it is is deep relaxation, and that has been shown to enhance these neuro chemicals which can enhance the neural plasticity process. Sleep is always best, but if you can't sleep. Sometimes, doing these deeper lactation scripts can be almost as good. And is there a time of day for yourself? Is there a time of day that you'll find that? You'll want to bring it in? Is it like two o'clock after kind of like a lot of activity and the you know? What time do you bring it in to enhance your sort of flow, or do you call upon it when you're finding yourself like a little stressed out a little bit sort of cold in different directions, a little bit hard to focus. How do you tap into that toolbox? I do five week. Ten to thirty minutes each if I haven't slept is if I wake up and I. Don't feel rested. I don't have the luxury unfortunately of just going back to sleep most the time, so I'll do a thirty minute or ten minute one of these deep relaxation scripts and I swear I wake up for come out of that. Sometimes I fall asleep during it sometimes I. Don't but I come out of that feeling completely. Ready to go. That's my experience. We studied this in my lab. And people go into very deep state of relaxation and brainwaves that Mimic Sleep if. Your groggy. I might do it in the afternoon, and if I wake up in the middle of the night, and I'm ruminating and I'm having a hard time turning off my mind and I can't sleep. I will do this instead, so it's not set time each day. It's more that you're calling upon it. If there's a feeling of not feeling as alert or has rusted, as I would normally feel at my baseline right now. That's right and there's an I have a friend. is is Ryan Suave. Who's doing really incredible work in the trauma of an addiction community is a drama therapist in new board, certified therapists, using nigger as a component of the treatment for trauma and addiction, and of course there are other components to those treatments, but for people that are interested in trauma, release and working through things, I whether or not because of plasticity, restoration of these chemicals He's had tremendously positive. Results were actually think about running a study with an impatient population that he works without in Colorado my labs studied this process for me. It's also just easier than meditation because meditation involves concentration and I'm spending most today trying to concentrate. Along those lines about focus A lot of people say like what are your tools for focus so I'll just mentioned that the things that I do that. You may or may not find useful okay so they. They range from pretty extreme to a rather benign when I was in college. No joke I actually used to chain myself to my chair I wouldn't didn't have phones back then. And I would throw the key across the room to the point where I would have to drag my chair across the room in order to unlock myself a my goal at that time was to get through large volumes of reading, and there was a lot of memorization and I found myself just getting way, too distracted and I would try and find the right amount of coffee did it makes sense to listen the mellow music, or like really intense music, and it was so variable it finally what I found. Was You know basically I'm GonNa just take this to the extreme and just chain myself to the jet. That's a little extreme nineteen years old. I'm not sure I. Recommend that, and also it's a fire hazard. I guess if you hadn't out. Nowadays I confess that I lock my phone a gun. Safe you know I this has nothing to do with firearms is just has a timer on it, so you can actually time the safe and I. Just lock it in there, and I turn on. A program on the Internet of freedom that just shuts down my Internet access and I write down anything that I want to look up later and I will be honest. I hate this process. It is painful creates a ton of anxiety. Being away from the phone promotes anxiety I. Get it in But what I find is I can accomplish more in a sixty minute bout of no distraction than I can in today's of broken work. So that's what I do. A lot of people have asked what about Diet and supplementation. For me being a little bit hungry actually helps me focus, but if I'm to Hungary, obviously, I'm going to think about food. I love to eat I. Love to eat so I'll generally capture that mid morning session as a key time, and then I eat after that, and then in my lab doesn't work on supplementation. I just want to be fair always of course. Check with your doctor I'm not promoting supplementation, but I think there are a few things that can enhance focus for. For occasional use that are much safer than most of the stuff that people are out there using you know people look to stimulate powerful stimulants I drink caffeine so hydration caffeine worked very well to enhance Focus Lotta. People Overdo the caffeine part, but they don't overdo the hydration. As you were talking about earlier. Where they get so jittery, they can't focus and now the caffeine is no longer playing the role that it could play in potentially helping them a little bit in the more. That's right. Four to volume of water to caffeine is what I actually do. and a lot of people say then you have to go to the bathroom all the time. Well, this is kind of fun. Because then we can get right back into brain circuits, so there's a there are several studies that have shown that the reason you wake up in the middle of the night when you have to urinate when you have to go to. The bathroom is because there's actually a circuit. Neurons that connect your bladder to your brain stem and wake up your brain. This is when kids are really young and the circuits developed. This is why they went their beds when they're really little, so that circuit wakes you up and believe it or not. There are communities of first responders, although and people in certain. Areas doing certain kinds of military working to understand that hydration part of the reason it makes you alert is because of the cellular hydration we hear seventy percent, or whatever the brain is embody our water, a lot of the alertness that you get from hydration, also because your bladder is full, and it stimulates alertness. Wow, that I haven't heard before. That's amazing. You've experienced. It's right. Says Yeah I mean when someone really has to go to the bathroom. It's it's downright stressful. It's agitation round trip. You're on a road trip, you gotTA. There's not a place that's incite. You're alert even if it's later in the evening when you might be a little bit tired from having driven the whole. It can pull you out of deep sleep, so it's weird because it's a very, it's not very elegant tool, but hydration and caffeine can work together, and then there are some supplements like l tyrosine, which is a dopamine precursor. Those connect for occasional use can bring about like heightened levels of focus in mood. However, I would caution most people about taking anything too close to the molecule. You're trying to create so for people that want they're like. Oh, I want more serotonin. I'M GONNA take five HDP. I recommend against that because you start to short circuit your own natural production of five HDP where bodies like it's regularly coming in, so it's not gonna it just like. It feels like it's compensating permanently with that item. That's right just like people who take testosterone They shut down their own godot production. That's well known because the bloodstream. There's so much of it in the blood stream. They don't need to make their own so I think with dopamine. It's of scary to me. Nowadays you can go to the health food store on Amazon and by L.. Dope you. It's called mccune appearance, and it's basically ninety nine percent Elba that will give you very strong effect in the short term, but you're gonNA feel a real crash for a couple of days afterwards because you're GonNa Deplete. Deplete your dopamine things like L. tyrosine are the precursor the amino acid precursor to dopamine and their few steps in between so the further away. You are from the molecule that you're trying to create a safer. You are now the furthest away that you can get is behaviors so the self reward mechanisms? We talked about earlier or some You know timed intermittent fasting to increase adrenaline. Remember that deer that was hungry because it was searching. You know you're making yourself a little bit hungry. which can make bring about some alertness not too much longer that you're so stressed about food. They can't think about your work. You. You know you you drinking water, so you're getting those signals from from the bladder brain stem as well as seller hydration in alertness. Brain level so you can start to create tools that converge. And the beauty of doing that with tools that are very. They're pretty benign tools right? I mean none of this prescription drug. None of this is a you know really intense practice yoga address tend to thirty minutes light viewing in the morning. You start to see these things. Stores start to weave together in kind of what I call it. A neural circuit basis for kind of wellness and performance is based on neural circuits in the brain. Brain in the body and WANNA get low more extreme with the behaviors. Go for it. You know there's been times in my life. I haven't done this recently. Where I would draw, Oh, cross cross hatch on a piece of paper. Put it up across the room, set a timer and see how long I could keep my concentration on I do allow myself to blink. It's not easy, but you can build up to ten or fifteen minutes. Minutes and that can immediately transferred to a workout, and the reason is would go back to the is the beginning of our discussion. Your eyes were designed to focus obviously your visual World Lens Moves, and you can do all these things to focus your visual, and that brings about a mental focus, a lot of you appreciate the extent to which our sensory environment is what we should use to guide our focus, just sitting there and going. Going focus focus focus focus from the inside out doesn't really work so well. It's hard to control your mind with your mind, but you can control your mind with behaviors. You can control your mind with visual input. You can control your body and your mind through these neurochemical systems, and the the entry points to doing that our vision, sometimes conscious breathing some mindset work like positive rewards, and these kinds of things are good light. Light smell touch. These are the liggins the the things that attach to receptors in the body that create our states of mine, and you ultimately are in control of those, and so it's been fun and refreshing for me in the last couple of years to spend so much time in the with folks from the wellness community, because fortunately in twenty twenty, that wellness community is populated. Yeah, with a lot of kind of crazy ideas, but also some people like yourself. You know people like Sachin. David Sinclair other people who who think about how to great the science with these things that for a long time existed. Purely psychological concepts or even spiritual concepts, and the spiritual and psychological is beautiful I think we should. Tip Our hats to that those communities for for landing the car toys for putting the stuff on the table. Science can point to protocols that most likely are going to give us the biggest effects. And also with so much focus on access and inclusion, we also need tools that can can scale that many people can can get a chance to do, and there's nothing more. Basic than our access to light. You know breathing. Ability to like take rest. These are things that everybody can do that. Have profound effects that don't require them to. Reach even their pockets to pay for things that they may not have access to and I think that those tools are just so important, and when you look at a lot of people that are out of balance that are trying to address some aspect of their life. It's always that good functional medicine doctor or practitioner will look at them and just start off with the basics, because as much as we all think that we are practicing the basics we are very much not because our world and the way that technology in place that world is so designed to post out of attempting those basics, and if we haven't addressed those basics that are, they're looking at light in the morning thinking about breeding and I know you have a lot of thoughts on that. Well I have to say that for a round to when we have you back on an entire podcast just on breathing and respiration alone and how that can. Play a role in focusing so many other aspects including. Regulating our nervous system, but all in all. I. Really what I'm trying to say is that these tools are the foundational things that we can all remember and remind herself that play a crucial role with our daily experience of the world. We forget sometimes that we weren't here. And then the world came the world was here, and our body designed its DNA. It's cellular biology nervous system around existing planet. That was there, so we are a byproduct that we have to live in harmony with it. Extremely well put a beautiful I was really enjoying hearing. You say that because I I don't all these years. I've really haven't thought about that order of operations, but that's exactly right. The nervous system was shaped on the envel- of the earth, if you will like an environment of the Earth, and it has capacities to be customized based on trial childhoods in habitats. Habitats because big part of the brain is to adapt to whatever it is that experiences early in life, but has this feature of adult plasticity that you know is a real thing. Everyone has access to that. Everybody has access to that. There's no person that has hyper plasticity and they're. They're people that don't have access to plasticity. Everyone has access to plasticity and. Sometimes the gates to plasticity, which are remember their alertness focus and later rest. Some people have an easier time with the alertness focus part in a harder time with the rest Bart. Nobody's great at those across the board. Immediately they take practice and it's totally doable. takes a little bit of time commitment. Glad that you mentioned inclusion and a low cost or no cost. You know obviously this is still crucial now. To scale out and get tools out to people. To get everybody one of the things that I. Just will be. This is an ask a call it what it is. It's an ask you know in the scientific community and in laboratories. We have something with watch. One do one teach one where you watch somebody to a procedure than you do it. Usually you do a lot of them, and then you teach it and you know I'm delighted the opportunity to be here. Share on Instagram into share I'm so thrilled their platforms like this one that you do. But I think that you know they're large communities that still don't hear about this kind of stuff, not just the things I'm talking about, but all all of it and especially what you just mentioned, which was beautiful and I think it's important that we try tools, and we adapt those tools and into our life, and we find what works for us. It's important that we also hand off those tools to people that we care about into teach as many people as we can. This is one of the reasons. Reasons why I don't have a bone to pick with named protocols, but one of the reasons, I really try to emphasize the physiological in neuroscience principles underneath the stuff like light viewing and I. Don't call them like you know. My Dog's name is Costello I. Call Them. The Costello Principles, or something is because they become vaulted in something that is further away from the meaning and the and the underlying mechanism. Of course, a ton of mechanism is confusing too so I want you to encourage people to try. Try Tools hearing about him is great, but try them find what works for you. What doesn't work for you? Adapt them and share them, and it's okay to not know all the science behind him. If you WANNA learn more about the science by all means learn it, but I think watch one do one teach. One could do a lot for wellness and health and society, because people largely learned through word of mouth right now there's there is deep confusion understandable confusion about who the experts are you know? Know, we don't know who to trust nowadays and there are a lot of opinions in the room and degrees help, but they're not everything right. There are degrees who were look very unhealthy I've had dentists with very bad teeth. I generally don't stay with those dentists, so you know there are people who have no degrees who know a tremendous amount, and so I think bringing people together is great increasing the conversation, but watch one do one teach one or watch one. Do you many teach and? The? Mother Nature Nature's the PAT reading I've talked about today. Right I'm not I. Don't need anything from this. Because I didn't invent any of this mother nature built this for us you know. Mother, nature got odd the universe, whatever your beliefs in leanings, our I support, those the important thing understand is that the patent doesn't belong to human beings. It doesn't even to humanity. It was like you said we were sculpted on this stuff and so I think teaching and passing along tools is is the next big step especially for underprivileged populations, but really for everybody that's absolutely true, and it's an important message and. Andrew I wanNA, thank you for coming on the podcast and really I. Think of your work is so hopeful. It's hopeful because it's that reminder that. We. We do have control. We can get better right so many of us think of character as it's been set and sure there might be people that are more predisposed towards one aspect or another their conditions that are that they grew up in, but really we all have access to improve our focus. We all have access to improve our growth mindset, and there are practical tools that we can use to help us in that process on. Thank you for coming on the podcast and sharing your work and acknowledged for all the great material that you put out there I know that sometimes you ask people that you know you're doing all sorts of different types of studies, and that you have a call for you know they should reach out and if they ever want to get a chance to be a part of them in the future I don't know how that's working with covid. But where would you like to direct our audience if they want to learn more or support the work that you're up to? thanks for mentioning that. Yes, so if people WANNA learn more neuroscience. Continue the discussion and human lab on Instagram so at age qb ammon. L. A. B. U. Lab on Instagram I. Have a live website which is Uber Dot Com. If you wanna read some of the papers we have them. They're available for download on the the full content media, and that sort of thing and some media related material. You want to read more in depth. So we are running human studies and I'm really excited. About is a lot of these are now being done remotely because of Kobe so when we just launched a study. With one hundred twenty five subjects, they're wearing sleep. Monitoring Bands, they WE'RE GETTING HEART RATE VARIABILITY SLAP! They're doing each group during a particular type of respiration of breathing practice each day. That's work ongoing. We do have a few more slots left in that study although. When this Ariza's as might be filled, but here's the way to get into one of those studies. If you contact me on instagram by DM, please put wrath work study at the top, so that I know an email so that then I can email you a link. That will take you into the appropriate portal via Stanford. So, that the best way to do that and I do keep your name in your emails on file. You don't want me to of course for those of course solely for the purposes of those studies, not for any other reason I don't do the screening so if you don't get selected. Just understanding that clinical coordinator handles that it wasn't my personal choice, but. The we either pay subjects to participate or in the case of the current study they get to keep the band, and they get a pretty lengthy subscription so sometimes they get a valuable piece of PAC. Sometimes we pay you on cash once we get back into the mode of having subjects. Come into the lab then we can also talk about coming lab. Lab because we do. Run in lab studies where you come in, and we spend several hours. We do a lot of in depth, brain and wadi recordings while taking through certain forms of Vr too much because I, don't WanNa bias the outcome of the study, but so you can reach me on instagram and please give me an email contact, and very clear about. Your interest in the studies and make that separate from another email I. I want to Thank you because I. really appreciate the opportunity to connect. With audiences like yours and I mean it when I say, I think that podcast, and especially this sort of podcast is so valuable for all these health initiatives in the sorts of things that you and mark and others are trying to accomplish days so thanks so much I really appreciate the time in the opportunity. Absolutely, it was a pleasure to have you on, and I hope that our audience gets a chance to. Participate in, show their interest in it and. You know because that's the way that we can support the research we don't have to be as he said we can be somebody who's a practitioner of this for ourselves, and it has an interest in our own life even if he didn't study at, there's still a lot of things that you can do, you can teach people. You can participate in studies. You can do different. Different stuff to help spread the message, and that's where we need more of in this world. We need more of that positively more those tools that we can all bring to the table to help. People grow and make the world better place so Andrew. Thank you for being on the PODCAST. It was an honor to have you here and I'm excited around to in the. Great likewise, thank you so much. I I. Hope you enjoy the interview just a reminder. This podcast is for educational purposes. Only as podcast is not I repeat. It's not substitute for professional care by Dr. otherwise qualified medical. Professional is podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for helping your journey, seek out a qualified medical practitioner. If you're looking for functional medicine practitioner, you can visit I f. m. Dot Org and searched their find provider. Database. It's important that you have somebody in your corner. That's qualified. That's trained. That's a licensed healthcare practitioner helping you make changes especially when it comes to your health.

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The Indicator from Planet Money

09:57 min | 11 months ago

What Separates Urgent Care And The ER? Your Bill.

"N. P. R. There are currently about ten and a half thousand urgent care centers in the US and that number is about to grow by ten percent over the next few years that number comes from Kalorama a market research firm that looks at the medical industry and I am a big Fan of urgent cares because I go to the doctor way too much and they're very convenient but in case you don't know urgent care centers live in this kind of gray area. They fall somewhere between your doctor's office and an emergency room oftentimes. They're unlike storefronts like next to starbucks or a pet store. They've often got longer hours than your regular doctor open earlier. Stay open later and unlike at your doctor. You don't need an appointment. You could just walk in. I mean that is huge. Yes according to a recent study from dock more than seventy percent of Americans think it's easier go to the ER to get a doctor's appointment urgent. CARE centers have been around since the seventies. The last time we saw this much growth was after the affordable care act was passed and more people had insurance and they could pay for healthcare so all these new urgent care centers started opening but here is the mysterious thing about urgent in care. They offer some of the very same services. You get an e R but they're cheaper like so much cheaper. Yeah that is one of the reasons why a couple all of years ago when I had a nasty incident with a bike I wanted to ride the bike. The bike did not want to be ridden. I ended up with a broken wrist and when I was deciding where go I went to an urgent care center. Not The emergency room there was a doctor there she examined me she took an x ray and my bill was only seventy five dollars and you do not need a medical degree to know that is so much cheaper than if I'd gone to the Er yeah and compare that to the average emergency room visit which is and get ready for this more than two thousand two hundred dollars per visit that is thirteen hundred percent more than the average urgent care visit that data by the way comes from Kalorama and that is today's indicator thirteen hundred how how is it possible that an x ray can be so much cheaper or a doctor doctor is adopter right an X-ray by any other price. You know I'm Doris Rafi on I'm Sally Herships in for Stacy Vanik Smith today indicator why are all these urgent care centers opening and how is the treatment at Virgin Care so much cheaper than at an emergency room this message comes from NPR sponsor fund rise innovating the way people can invest in real estate fund rise makes it simple to build a portfolio of high quality real-estate estate affordably visit fund rise dot com slash built and get your first six months of advisory fees waived support also comes from Google Domains ogle domains helps make your business idea a reality with the tools and partners for building your website like a pro and premium security features included for free make it happen at domains dot google slash. NPR Okay in order to answer our questions why are so many urgent care centers opening and how are they so so much cheaper than at the Er we need to look at what urgent care centers are there this weird hybrid of Doctor's office and an emergency room but but they are neither instead they are their own distinct thing an urgent care despite the name. You're not coming in on stretcher. Bruce Carlson is with Colorado. He's the lead author author on a study about the urgent care industry and he says urgent cares therefore weird rashes the flu broken wrists and he says there's an important wouldn't distinction between urgent care centers and emergency rooms so the first thing you're going to do when you walk into an urgent carries is a range of business portion is arranged that payment this comes down to a federal law called 'em. Tala the emergency medical treatment and Labor Act was enacted in Nineteen eighty-six and it mandates that any entity or any emergency department that takes Medicare or Medicaid is required to see patients regardless of their ability to pay but a lot of urgent care centers. I don't have to follow this mandate that means they can turn patients away and patient access to healthcare. That's a big reason that urgent care centers are becoming so popular pillar often patients even when they have health insurance and can pay for medical care are still not able to get care when they need it. That's because we have a shortage of doctors and nurses. Alexi acce- Wagner teaches emergency medicine at Stanford Medical School and he knows a thing or two about this. He is an emergency room doctor himself. Most regular doctors aren't set up to take patients. It's four same day appointments. They have long wait times. They have large panels of patients that they need to see so you may have to wait one three five two weeks thanks to get an appointment for the ear infection or the sore throat and patience just aren't willing to wait that long so urgent care centers can be a popular option. According leading to the Urgent Care Association seventy percent of patients we less than twenty minutes at urgent care. I mean come on. That sounds amazing. Heavenly and doctors can be fans of care to the pay can be lower ben say at an emergency room but there's no real perks residents who need a side hustle to pay their bill else from medical school can pick up extra work on evenings and weekends and Ers are notorious for crazy long hours so doctors who WanNa have lives the families or just not working a nightmarish hell scape of sleep deprivation and caffeine might opt to work at an urgent care instead urgent care centers are also also popular with hospitals. They can open them off site to that when patients get sick are deciding where to go. They have other options before they resort to the ER and Alexi says hospitals they want the very sickest patients to go to the ER obviously but often that's not what really happens so you have patients who have a complaint they have pain in their throat and they think some of them very naturally the this is the scariest thing thing that's ever happened to them that. I'm GonNa die this cancer. My friend of a friend had the same complaint and I think I have the same thing but they don't have cancer. They are not dying but they do go to the emergency room and that is not what hospitals want so by opening urgent care. Centers hospitals are creating an alternative summer. They can steer those patients to get the care they need but at the same time keep the wrong patients from cluttering up emergency rooms. There's always a disconnect between the patient's understanding of the concern for how sick they actually are and then actually how sick they actually are to the doctor and that disconnect can sometimes make patients go to the wrong place to get care. Are you saying that we are not as sick as we think we Alexi says. Let's face it. Sometimes we're not maybe you're not. I am and if we're not when we're deciding where to go. We should know that we have the option to go to urgent care instead of the emergency room because it'll probably save us a lot of money big fat caveat out here Sally. You and I obviously are not doctors. We're not trying to tell you not to go to the hospital if you are experiencing a medical emergency and are in distress dial nine one one go to the emergency room. Don't take medical advice from podcasters so let's get back to economics where we are on firmer ground the same services like an x thread or a blood test could cost you more at the Er than at urgent care and this is a weird concept right because usually scale means efficiency lower costs. That's why would an X-ray the our costs more than the same x Ray a few miles away at an urgent care center. Alexi says large medical systems they may have signed a contract with the Nurses Union so they may be paying higher salaries. They may have to meet certain staffing ratios or have rates that have been pre negotiated with labs APPs which are charging them more bruce from Colorado says there's another reason that hospitals are more expensive. Some of it is just basically that emergency rooms in hospital. All systems are charging more for the service but they actually provide and have at the ready a much higher level of staff and a higher level of service. Can we just back up one second you mentioned. Did you say that one of the reasons ers charge more is because they can well. I think that's that is that has some factor in there. In other words there's limited competition for their only competition they have is with other emergency rooms so going to at the Er can be more expensive and as a patient. It's important to keep this in mind because if you make what Your Health Insurance Company decides is the wrong decision. You get slapped with a giant bill. Alexi says there is a new trend in health insurance insurers refusing to cover bills for emergency room visits they decide side are unnecessary and Lexi says more people have been signing up for high deductible health insurance plans that means they're paying more out of pocket so there's an incentive to shop around around for the lowest cost option. They don't WanNa get stuck with giant bills so urgent cares might be a good option and we may see more of them opening up in the future so How are you feeling. I'm feeling like a little under the weather while I'm feeling great and I'm not going to the doctor the ER or urgent care anytime sued I think I might go to the are an urgent care just to be safe. Had your vets. This episode was produced by Rachel Cohn edited by Paddy Hirsch. Nadia Lewis is our intern in fact checker and the indicator is a production of N._P._R.

Doctor Urgent Care Association Alexi Virgin Care starbucks Colorado US Sally Herships ER Bruce Carlson Kalorama N. P. R. NPR cluttering Rachel Cohn Kalorama
233- Michael Burry & Index Investing Fears

Invested: The Rule #1 Podcast

37:22 min | 11 months ago

233- Michael Burry & Index Investing Fears

"Everybody this is Phil Town Danielle town. Welcome to the PODCAST. That's where we are figuring out how the best investors in the world managed to create amazingly high returns and we're talking twenty percent plus for their entire career on average and go over double the the stock market which means massively more money not in terms of like you know huge gigantically more money not just double over many years many years and they do that is the best part you guys what what the reason we're really digging in on this because you know any moron can get higher returns by gambling and they'll just never tell you about all the money they lost hear me who has never won anything gambling ever in my entire life so we do. Ooh But we don't want to just gamble what what we want. Is We want to do it like the best investors do which is they're getting these enormously high returns and they're doing it by all measures with lower risk than you're mutual fund. They're actually investing in companies that have a lower volatility volatility and lower Beta than the average stock in the stock market at least Warren Buffett has been proven to have done that and and that's presumably impossible according to modern portfolio theory so we have we have something really fun here that that the little guy can maybe take advantage of at least that's what we're seeing is a little guys are able to by investing in a similar kind of way which is to do the four things. Charlie monger said you gotTa do understand the business us. Make sure it has a competitive advantage. Make sure management's great and buy it on sale. That's it simple. That's what we're figuring out how to do. We're unfolding that right over low these many years it is low these many years isn't it and we just finished off last time. I'm talking about this sort of large impending doom that has just been proved just a few weeks ago was predicted by this. He's very famous. Investor called Michael Berry who is kind of a long term investor also called his actual name is Michael Berry back but he's called Michael Berry see I started having British is since I live in Europe. Now I understand your called Michael Berry Michael. That's right. I am called that that's Berry is is we are. There's another one that I found myself saying we're quite lovely to have talking about. This makes sense where I was like. Oh I'm saying quite right a lot. We're quite lovely or quite lovely. You certainly are quite quite. It's quite right like I found myself saying that's quite right. It's a bunch of Australians pretty soon. You're saying mate all the time and and you don't realize that we have the same thing going on. Entirely we go. Hey man how you doing going now. That one is very clear to me because my husband who's not British or American in his English says says mate like 'cause he learned British English but then which I hear him say often but then when we go to America he switches it out for man. Dan and I never heard anybody do that before until him and it's so weird like here that showed switching like coaching is such surreal thing. There's a guy who travels international inter- regular basis right there. That's pretty darn good. It has to interact on on the home level so back to the point while plus. He wants to be cool around his American family. He is cool. He is cooler and husband. Is The coolest guy I love your husband's so much. I'm the luckiest father-in-law ought that's a guy basin. Michael Burry a guy called Michael Michael burry hooked because that is his name is a very famous investor because the book the Big Short which Michael Lewis a guy called Michael Lewis because that is his name for the book called the big short featuring Michael Berry and his excellent decision to bet against the entire housing market in the US and if one billion dollars by the way yeah ah the guy super hard he's super smart and the reason that he was in a position to make a billion dollars in the first place was because while while he was going to Stanford Medical School this is how Uber Smart this guy is while he was going to Stanford Medical School he was pretty much being full-time investor with his own capital and he was writing a blog about it and New York people in Hedge Fund industry picked up on it in word got around that this sort of crazy crazy guy at Stanford head was making some very good inciteful predictions and analysis and so eventually several hedge funds gave him a pile of money and that was because he was just such a great investor and has continued to be a great investor so we pay attention attention to what he's doing and what he's saying because he's one of the people that makes money in the markets very similarly to what we do and what we're trying to understand more fully on this podcast what we're trying to teach you guys. Berry is an absolute example of the kind of investing stain that is relative to the market low risk high return investing P invest in a very small number of things that he'd researchers in intensely and understands the way you would understand your business. If you were to become a Franchisee for McDonald's you know you just wouldn't put all of your family's money into something like a McDonald's franchise unless you really understood what you were doing. You were very confident. You're going to be successful and that's exactly think what these guys do. I think that's pretty much how invest yeah and if you missed the last few episodes where we talked about him and his comment that the essentially the worldwide financial markets could have another crash much like the one in two thousand eight due to e t the APPS. If you miss those episodes go back most of them so that we're not gonNA completely recap everything here but that is his comment that he thinks that the the intense amount of money that's an index funds and exchange traded funds because they merely track the underlying stocks and people aren't individually owning the underlying stocks that when selloff starts everything's is GonNa get sold all at once because that's the only way you can possibly do it with an index funds and Exchange Traded Fund and it won't be bit by bit which even like in a typical crash bit by bit still causes crash but he thinks that this is GonNa be worse and he's not the only one who has made comments about these concerns. He's not the only one Carl ICAHN. I believe he made a number of times has he's been talking talking about it for. I think about four years off and on he's made comments about that and his his view is that it is very specifically the bond. ETF's that are going to blow up the whole thing because not only are they highly concentrated but in in in a relatively small number of bonds because they're just not you you know there's just not that many bond offers out there that are can handle the amount of money that's coming into bonds right now and these bond. ETF's therefore are investing in relatively illiquid and companies. It's not like you're buying into apple or you can get out of it tomorrow. With a lot of money. These are illiquid bonds and when people decide they want to get out of these things. They're not going to have a buyer. There's going to be nobody on the other side and that's GonNa Crater these. ATF's and when that happens there's going to be a panic according into icon and that panic will trigger further panic in the stock market so he thinks the whole thing unravels from that point of view yeah. I asked the last time you know like what makes it any different from just a regular crash and I think the difference is as you said just the severity of it the time wise chronologically the number of company of stocks in in giving even companies that are GonNa be sold all at once and won't be able to find buyers all at once. I mean how many companies do know like how many companies are. We even talking about like what percentage of the market are. We even talking about these things a huge percentage of the market. Actually it used to be not so much back in two thousand eight or so yes. That's what I'm trying to figure out is. How is this different because these these these instruments is these these index no from that or from other crashes even before that because these funds have been around for a long time but a long time you know probably probably like what like twenty thirty years right since vanguard invented the Index Fund essentially right yeah essentially yeah they've been around a long time but not in the volume that they've got now and that's where the the big changes occurring is that the volume is i. I think three or four times higher than it was even just ten years ago. Why wait say that again three times higher X? More your money invested in these things then than before and currently g the market share popular but I didn't know they were that popular. Oh Yeah it's it's a big deal according to Bank of America Merrill Lynch that market share for passively managed funds and that means they're not they're. They're not seeking price. They don't look at something go well. That's not a good price. I'm not going to buy it. They're buying the entire package of the index so if there's five hundred stocks in the S. and P. Five five hundred and you're in a passively managed fund. They're buying everything pro rata. That's in the five hundred everything that's in the dour everything that's in the Nasdaq. That's what vanguard basically invented that's what John Bogel invented and and now there's so many of them doing that same thing they become so popular because of their very low fees number one relative to active management right so the the fees are you guys know the difference between basis points points in and percentage points okay so it's easier to talk about these low numbers using the words basis points weights or bishops. They sometimes call them so these are. There's financial language ahead. Okay go on so these there are one hundred tips or one hundred basis points in one percentage point so if we were to say how how much interest rates have changed as a result of the Federal Reserve last week they changed it. Twenty five basis points which is a quarter of a percent so quarter of a percent is twenty five basis points. Okay got it right right so it just makes it sound fancier. Yeah it does sound on a lot fancier so in any case the market share of these passively managed funds and that that means that people are going out and and they are buying the entire index that they're trying to mimic which is how vanguard started the whole thing and they're charging got popular because they're charging these very low fees in in in basis points not even in interest percentages so it used to be that a mutual fund who had charged two percent of the assets under management and today these index funds our. ATF's are charging twenty basis points or twenty five basis points so a a quarter of a percent so down like you know whenever that is seventy centers massively cheaper which is a very big deal as Bogle Bogle. We'll start the whole industry pointing out that if you pay two percent and your fund manager only actually manages to just do the market market rate of return he doesn't do Warren Buffett or something and you're paying two per cent for this. You're reducing your retirement capital over a fifty fifty year investment life by sixty percent you cut your retirement in half or more by those fees and so when people start and realize I put those charts in our book. I remember looking at them and putting them in like it's just so insane the amount of and it's aw over time which is so hard to comprehend. You know it's great. If you think well okay they they're going to go out and do seven percent or something in in my mutual fund and I'm paying them to to do it then you start to see. It's a pretty big number that you're taking off the top. That's that's a lot of seven seven percent right. That's thirty percent of your of your income just got taken away by the fund managers fee and that thirty percent haircut that you just just got compounded over forty years adds up to over fifty percent of your retirement and so people started charging only a quarter of ever percent do that you can't you can't pay analyst rank costs have to come way down right so bogus. Great Genius was to say well. I don't I don't need to do all that. I just need to buy the stocks in the index in the same proportion that they are in the index and make sure I keep with Fatso that if the index goes up I go up it goes down I go down and and that insight came came about as a result of the further insight coming out from modern portfolio theory research that proved that I'm putting big quotation marks around the word proved that nobody can beat the market so this all all comes about as a result of modern portfolio theory this whole idea of index investing is a result of bogle believing that nobody can beat the market having the startling insight that if nobody can beat the market why am I charging for active management why don't I just copy the market and and that became vanguard which is gigantic now right. That was a dollar idea. You like read something where he talked about. It like that. Bob Bogle because I many Bogle is a guy that is actually absolutely believes. You can't beat the market for sure that was that became the whole impetus behind Rasa investment idea. I mean if you beat the market. Then the index funds are stupid. Not at all index funds are cheap but if you could beat the market that would be stupid to buy something just because it's cheap if it wasn't going to deliver to you a financial independence that you're obviously not everybody's going to beat the markets. You have to know who to choose to manage your money to pay them to go. beat the market for you. Not Everybody's Warren Buffett right thought you're talking about. An individual making a choice is to invest in an index fund with Bogle with vanguard or do it themselves which is what we encourage people to think about somebody investing in a hedge fund and paying somebody an incentive fee or buying an index fund. I think I mean from what I understand Bogle and and buffet. We're quite good friends. I think that he believed that it was definitely possible for some people to beat the market and I think people to buff it. Did it because buffet did it but that's the fact the fact that buffet did. It doesn't mean that. Bogle believed that buffet could do it. What is more than any other modern portfolio theorist all these academics and know that buffet did it but none of them believe that he actually actually was doing anything Fred. It's that he saw that these indexes had existed for a very long time and thought. Why don't I just I own that like it's. That's the market and lamarcus going up. We could answer this on a future podcast which is right here but you know email us questions invested podcasts dot com because you guys send us the best sources so I guarantee you. Do you guys know just email US sources. Let us know what Bogle has said about it in all fairness. I if Daniel is right then it doesn't matter because because we'll say yes S. I guess that is true. Boga would say yes fine. There are people out there who are capable of beating the market but you're not one of them therefore you should buy my vanguard fund so so saw it as an option. I don't think he was making a statement about truth or untruth of whether or not people could be. I think he just saw it as a great option that he couldn't figure out why nobody else had created fair enough. You might be right. I just think he was yeah. I think he was an ETF modern portfolio theory guy but we're gonNA research so point being that his invention has become a monster as in in the sense that right now according to Bake Mirko Ledge passively managed funds are forty five percent of the market of manage money out there which is crazy huge piece of it and that takes us to the point that burry is making and icon that when you have it's it's the amount of money that makes it dangerous right. Do you have a snowfall up in Jackson hole up on glory right. You got the glory bowl. It's not a big deal until it gets like in terms of an avalanche until it gets to be a lot of snow and then the avalanche danger becomes severe. It's it's it's the weight of it. All that can make it just just release suddenly and have this monster thing happen and that's where we are now is that it's the weight of it that could create an avalanche and Berry. He is looking at this and going. Hey you know what the same principles that existed in place in two thousand seven and in the subprime bond market for for real estate exist here and that principle is number one when you have Nobel Prize winners in other words the geniuses are saying that everything is fine with these subprime bonds based on math okay so so the math says everything's good these are aaa no problem and that was coming from Nobel Prize winning views of the market and today we have the same exact thing you have everybody including Warren Buffett saying that if you're not gonNA be mad. They don't say anything. They just say. You should invest in indexes. That's yeah straight up. Basically so what do we do about it. That's the big question well has. Let me make sure everybody understands why there's such a huge scary problem boom like the avalanche and that is that when you have no one or less and less people actively trying to figure figure out what is the real value of apple and they're just an apple is in a couple of different indexes right so instead of trying to figure. Ah Apple Worth Two hundred twenty dollars a share three hundred dollars a share five hundred dollars a share right. I mean at some point. You could also see that would be crazy to be buying apple at some Tom. Price we could put okay. Let's get a thousand share. That's insane right. I mean the company couldn't possibly make enough money in the future to ever justify paying that much much for it but indexed investors don't care they're not seeking that. They're not asking that question. They're just buying apple apple and if Apple APPs two thousand dollars a share fine so what it doesn't matter so here's berries point imagine that everyone in the market index funds which is what all these guys are suggesting we do in that case. No one is seeking price discovery at all and there's nothing thing to prevent apple and all the rest of the stocks to go to insanely stupid prices that are completely out of the range of the risk that you're taking putting money into them. No one is figuring that out all right now if that happened. Can you imagine that at some point the avalanche would start just one. We went through this whole thing yes one one more snowflake and the avalanche begins and the avalanche happens because as you. Let's say now this is you. The listener has money in index funds and as they start to go down you're fine because you're supposed to just sit there and take it and then you start to get scared because so many people are saying wow. This is really really going down down twenty percent now. It's down twenty five percent now and you're sitting there with your retirement account in this thing and it's going down faster every every day and pretty soon you start to get scared and when that happens you join the avalanche and you exit which further terrifies more people which drives them out of the market and then instead of the market discovering real value with the price it just panics out and you end end up with drop like we had in the depression where the panic in the market created a fall down ninety percent the stock doc market disappeared in price ninety percent of a period of a few months and so when panic becomes you know universal you have that problem so there's the avalanche okay and that's why it happens right because there's so much weight on it. This episode is brought to you by Cox with contour. TV from Cox folks you can find all your favorites all in one place it does it have the youtube you bet net flicker thing. Netflix too and although Superhero Zero Movies Contour has all the latest titles on demand. Oh my grandkids love that being green guy. I prefer the one with the hammer myself okay. I think we're done here now. Get all your favorite apps shows and movies right on contoured TV from Cox now. What do we do about it yeah. What do we uh-huh better. That's where we left off last time. It only took US twenty minutes to get here. What do we do about it dad well. That's the best part of this is that there is. You have to make a decision. If you're going to be part of the of the the mob in these index funds or you you are going to separate yourself from these index funds. That's the first level of decision making. You're either going to keep your money in them or you're. GonNa take. Take your money out of him. That's that's that's the cut and dried point that you have to determine and you're GONNA be. You'RE GONNA be in trouble with your financial advisor. Serve you say yeah get me out of this stuff because they're going to say you can't pick the top of the market. No one knows when the market's GonNa stop going up so you're you're. GonNa miss out on the next forty percent rise. Let's assume that I'm already nodded index funds which is right so Takao do like the those of us who are on board. You know deciding what to do with our own money who aren't so worried worried about this uncomfortable conversation with the financial advisor. How are you staring down this like. If if you believe what Berry says which I think is probably pretty right but I'm not one hundred percent convinced if you believe it then now I mean I think the only thing to do is wait right the only thing to do. Well no not really now. That's not the only thing to do what what what do we. What do we do as investors essentially is? We wait anyway right. I mean that's the main job of investing is to is to be patient. That's the the main job but what's the other part of what we do. We do a ton of research. Yes we do a ton of research and that research urge is going to dive is going to be focused so I want you to focus your research and I'm talking to you. Honey focus it. Would you talk to me. You want you focus. Your research on things that you already are pretty comfortable with okay so you're going to focus on I mean this isn't my invention by any means. This is Warren Buffet and Charlie Mariano One. It's also Peter Lynch one on one and in fact fact. I've got a book feehery that I'm rereading this one. Yeah you know I gotta read. it's one up on. Wall Street. He's holding for me and I have been meaning to read that for three years and haven't made it so yes. I'm glad you're holding it up. I will read it so in St Peter Lynch right so the first way to avoid and by the way every every reason to think that the market could run on straight up another forty percent so remember. I said that because yeah it's going to be the market can stay irrational longer than you have money. I'm telling you right now that that that's the case we short really hearing anything different from the usual well honey. That's because the usual is the right way to invest okay so so that I can to know when we're looking at this suggesting all of us run out there and by I Peter Lynch's book one up on Wall Street wrote it back in nineteen ninety nine or one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. He had a remarkable record. Peter Lynch does not invest the way buffet does or the way I do. He owned almost everything in the market. I mean he was but he owned it. In percentages that allowed him to have a great track record occurred so he would focus on on specific stocks but he had he would own as many as fourteen hundred stocks so let's not get like. Oh yeah this guy. Is You know he's a rule one type investor but what he teaches in this book one up on Wall Street is to focus on what you already know which is really important and he gives you lots of examples and lots of ideas on how people from various trades people from various industries people in various walks of life if have all kinds of companies that they already know a lot about so read that book and the the thing that I want you to focus on then while you're in cash is to build a watchlist that is absolutely solid in other words. You know if these companies go down onto the price that you want to buy them at you're going to buy them. There's no question it's not like you're. GonNa worry that you've done your work properly. Now that this thing he's dropped fifty percent. You're ready to go. You're ready to pull the trigger and you do okay so we're going to be okay so it sounds to me like the the what to do about the impending possible. ETF Index Fund giant China crash is keep on keeping on and it doesn't really matter if it's that kind of crasher different kinds of crash. It's when the market drops be ready which is what we've been talking about for years which is great and to bring that back to Michael Burry. I mean right now. I'm looking Senate Michael Berries portfolio. He owns three six nine. He owns ten stocks right now. So here's a guy saying that we're edging toward heard a monster crash and yet he's invested. He's got ninety million bucks out there. I don't think that's all the money he's got. I think he's sitting in either short word positions or cash but he's certainly owns some companies and that's actually really interesting because I think and I may be off by one hundred million. Only in here are so but I think his fund is about three hundred and fifty million something like that which means that if he's publicly reporting ninety million of the ownership that's a not large percentage that is a small percentage of his fund and as you said maybe the rest of its insurance or something vein but that's very interesting that such a small percentage it's in is in long owned positions yeah so if we say let's let's say. Barry's got forwarded million just for a round number and he's got one hundred million in the market so he's invested twenty five twenty five percent. His largest positions are ten to fifteen percent of that twenty five percent so that would make the largest positions on an average of about two point five percent of the entire portfolio folio a lot in cash or a lot in short positions which somebody like him doesn't come out publicly and talk about how they see a crash coming by accident he seeked out that interview and he knew that he was putting that out there publicly so that people would understand probably why he was was keeping so much money back and I'm looking at the companies he owns here and I for the most part. These companies have been pounded into the dirt for good reason and so now Michael Berry is doing his famous research and and really digging in on on on these companies better than most people could and and I'll tell you right now. Buying businesses in this market is not jumping over six inch bars. This is if you can find something they don't sell in this market. There's a reason for it and then you need to really understand that reason and understand why the markets wrong and that is not a six inch bar. We don't try to beat the market by being geniuses at this point in time we more to the case it focused on the companies. We absolutely know a great companies. They don't have big problems. We're waiting for him to go on sale so I think really that that's that's the you like it as a result. Just keep doing what we're doing. I do what we're doing and if if nothing goes on sale the nothing goes on sale and you just wait it out because this market cannot go up forever her and when it stops going up you're going to be in a great position now by the way this is just my opinion. I have to say this is not a visor recommendations nations. Don't blame me if your retirement account. It's not up forty percent a year because we do we. I will tell you straight up. We that we have we have students who are mutual funds and indexes and we do have tools that we use to help determine whether this is when you wanna be in them or when you want to be out of them major the market me roll on with my students yeah so let's let's be sure you understand. I'm not making a recommendation here that you'd be out of the market etc not giving you advice to be out of the market. I just want you to understand how really good investors are treating this and remind you that guys like Michael. Barrier either shorter and cash Warren Buffett is not a guy shorts. He's just big time in cash right now. So it's a good it's a good point to to know that and then make take responsibility so you guys take responsibility for your for your for your future and and start learning really. I think this is an important point here is to start learning and not to Overdo Overdo it but both Danielle and I have have courses you can take and I think that it would be something out in a couple of weeks very cool so few really nervous service about whether you should even be doing this. Daniels got a great course coming up in two weeks to help you through that process and make you strong that just for investing but just for making great decisions in Your Life Dad. I just had coffee with a friend who just read my book our book I should say and and she said so so I'm definitely going to start learning how to invest now because I can't think of anything to do with this market and so I figured I'd just have tons of time to learn until until it crashes and I was like I just want you guys to understand that that the time keeps moving on and you're not going to be where you are forever in in terms of your age have a good friend of mine that just came to our class and I really love. This guy works really hard. He's a great guy and he just broke into tears. After class was over because I was talking about how how if you're sixty years old and you have ten thousand dollars as you already broke. You're already bro. You need to take risks with that capital in order to have a chance to have a retirement. You can't just go invest in indexes. Just not gonNA it gets you anywhere so it's it's it becomes dramatically more important when you get up toward retirement to have built financial independence and I'd love to see start now when your Danielle's age or younger even and start building that financial independence we'd love to see you live the life you want to retire early. Do whatever you WANNA do make the world a better place for all of us than to sit here and struggle emotionally with relationships and everything else related to not having enough money in this is true so next week on that point we're GonNa play an interview that I did with the Amazing Veronica dagger who hosts the secrets of wealthy women podcast and as a Wall Street Journal reporter and she wrote a book about resilience and spoke to these incredible women who have been through so many any failures and pick themselves up and created successes that we talked about that and the trends that she saw and and how resilience dance can help us as investors. I'm super excited to play that next week and and then coming up later. We've gotten requests again for craft hines which we still haven't done that we got. We got a request to talk about the Thomas Cook bankruptcy. That's going on and I duNno hello. That's a good one. That's an example of a company that that's their moat got broken. Yeah totally that we should totally talk okay so exciting stuff coming up. Check out the interview next week Veronica and then we'll be back in time to play hi guys. Thanks for listening to infested. If you enjoyed this episode and you want more information including show no notes and more episodes visit us at invested podcasts Dot Com. There's a special offer waiting for podcast listeners to attend my three day investing workshop absolutely free so just head to infested podcast dot com everything discussed on his podcasts either my opinion Org Danielle's opinion and is not to be taken as investing advice because I am not your investment advisor nor have I considered your personal situation as your fight do -ciary this is for your entertainment and educational only and I hope you enjoy it.

Index Fund Warren Buffett Michael Berry Bogle Bogle Michael Burry apple Michael Berry Michael US ATF advisor Cox Peter Lynch Charlie monger Bank of America Merrill Lynch Carl ICAHN Europe Org Danielle Wall Street Journal
Full Episode: Monday, July 13, 2020

World News Tonight with David Muir

20:43 min | 3 weeks ago

Full Episode: Monday, July 13, 2020

"Tonight the developing headline late today, the coronavirus, the major public school systems that will not open online, learning to start the year, also the governor of Texas, now pleading, wear a mask warning, what could come next and the NBA player testing positive today California, ordering new lockdown across the state for several businesses, including bars, restaurants an indoor dining. Los Angeles and San Diego, saying schools will not open for in person classes next month. New Images inside the Kobe unit of a hospital. In Houston, some hospitals reportedly forced to turn ambulances away NBA star Russell Westbrook revealing. He's now tested positive a patient in Texas dying after he said he attended a covert party the hospital tonight revealing his last words. Florida reporting record breaking numbers this weekend, brother and sister in their twenty s at a thirty nine year, old mother of six, dying her last phone call with children. One day after President Trump is seen wearing a mask in public. The White House is accused of targeting Dr Anthony Fauci putting out a list of FAO quotes than President Trump today, insisting he has quote a very good relationship with the doctor foul to today's teleconference. What he said about where this country is headed. Battling fires. Still burning after that devastating explosion on board a US Navy ship more than fifty sailors and civilians injured four hundred firefighters and sailors, still fighting the fire temperatures reaching one thousand degrees. Martha Raddatz standing lie. We also have new reporting tonight of the arrest of Jeffrey Epstein accused co-conspirator Glenn Maxwell with the FBI said she did when they got to the home, and what they allegedly found wrapped in Tinfoil the owner of the Washington, Redskins bowing to public pressure after saying he would never do it saying you can put that in caps now. The team name is out. So what will they be called next? Today remembering actress Kelly Preston. John Travolta's wife, passing away after a private battle with breast cancer, the moving tribute from Travolta tonight and one of their children's. This is ABC wounds tonight with David. MUIR Good he began. It's great to have you with us here. Is We start another week together? We have a lot to get to this. Monday night, but we're going to begin with the corona virus cases arising in thirty nine states in this country and this number tonight about one out of every one hundred Americans has now tested positive Florida setting records Texas governor, they're now pleading. Wear a mask and California's governor and the reversal there late. Late today dialing back on reopening La Schools San Diego. Schools will not open their classrooms California. Shutting down all indoor dining movie theaters, museums zoos in addition in twenty nine counties were eighty percent of the population lives shopping, malls, hair, salons, gyms, and non essential office will also be shut down the governor, saying this virus is not going away anytime soon. The Los Angeles School System the second largest in the nation announcing they will not open. Open their classrooms when school starts next month, San Diego schools announcing the same meantime tonight after Florida, reported fifteen thousand new cases in a single day, the highest daily toll of any state at any time in this pandemic today they added twelve thousand more tonight. At least forty seven hospitals have no available ICU beds in that state Texas reporting fifty six hundred new cases today. The mayor of Houston is pushing for a new two week shut. Shut down to stop the spread, and of course the concerns over young people in this country, this Fourth of July Party in Michigan we showed you a some time back several have now tested positive and tonight the heart wrenching stories, the brother and sister in their twenties, dying the thirty nine year, old mother, and her last phone call with her children before she was lost to, so we begin tonight with ABC's Mac up leading us off. Tonight California slamming its reopening into reverse. This virus is not going away anytime soon. As Kobe nineteen cents, a record number of patients into California hospitals, the Governor Today, shutting down all indoor business across the state, restaurants, bars, feeders, and museums Elliott School district, the second biggest in the country along with San, Diego's schools, announcing the only reopen online, the health and safety of all in the school community. Is Not something we can compromise. Kovic conquest unrelenting daily death rates now climbing in twenty three states, hospitalizations increasing in thirty one states in Florida a growing emergency or hospitals are running out of space are Victor Oquendo in Coral Gables? We are actually putting patients now in our search capacity beds, which means that our I, you area is. At a desperate call for plasma donations from patients who have already recovered from covid doctors fear that need will only deepen with cases skyrocketing to levels, not seen in any other state twenty seven thousand new cases just over the past two days. The virus has now claimed more than forty two hundred lives in Florida including Michaela. Hicks enter brother Byron both were in their early twenties. And thirty nine year old Renata Maguire a mother of six, losing her fight against cove it. Hard come. Kids. Does, she make it. Her brother, calling her children from the hospital bed before she passed away, my main thing was Sakala. They really loved. You know so. That's the best I can do for that time. Was that kids teller? How much? They really loved it. Houston Rockets Star Russell Westbrook the NBA's biggest stars testing positive for covid nineteen learning before he traveled to the NBA Bubble in Orlando instead he stayed behind in Texas. Westbrook says he was feeling well and quarantine, but he's urging everyone. Please take this virus. Be Safe, Mass Cup adding the Hashtag. Why not over the weekend in Orlando Disneyworld starting phase reopening magic kingdom in animal kingdom with temperature checks face masks and sanitation stations Texas governor, who originally resisted a statewide mask order now pleading with people to wear them the only way that we can have people continue to have a job they need to pay. Their bills is for everybody to adopt this practice of worrying facemask Houston's mayor, calling for a two-week shutdown. Were hospitals are stretched thin. The hospitals are really strained and stretched. We really can't accommodate many more patients. Doctors in San. Antonio Warning about the so covert parties where guests expose themselves knowingly to the virus, one thirty year, old man, allegedly infected at cove party, reportedly telling a nurse before he died, he made a mistake thinking the virus was a hoax eight and really believe he thought that Z's was owed. She thought. He was invincible and wouldn't get affected by the disease. So let's get to make up with us. Live from California. Tonight met I know. The Governor of California has talked about using this dimmer switch if you will and you're hearing that they haven't ruled out additional closures. Public Health officials here David have been very closely monitoring hospitalizations, ICU rates and death rates, and they don't like what they see and that's one reason. The governor's office is telling me. They are considering additional restrictions up to and including a stay at home. Order again at some point they say these measures could save thousands of lives David backup, leading off on Monday night now to president trump and the White House now accused of targeting Dr. Dr Anthony FAUCI president trump wearing a mask in public over the weekend during a visit to Walter Reed Medical Center tonight after the White House provided. A list of foul cheek quotes to reporters. The president today said he has a very good relationship with the doctor Dr Faustus. Speaking today. He did not mention the president, but what he did say about where he thinks we in this pandemic. Here's our chief. White House correspondent Jonathan Karl, tonight. After his advisors put out information critical of Dr Anthony Fauci President Trump told reporters today. He gets along just fine with the government's leading expert on infectious diseases well have a good relationship with Dr Fetchy. I've had for a long time. Right from the beginning. I find it very very nice. Person I. Don't always agree with, but the president recently made it clear. He's not happy with Dr. Foul Cheese warnings that the pandemic is far from over I. Don't think you can. Can say we're doing great. I mean we're just not Dr. vouches a nice man, but he's made a lot of mistakes. After the president said that the White House gave reporters a list of quotes from Dr Foudy from the past several months that the White House said turned out to be wrong. It was an extraordinary move going negative on one of the president's own advisers as if he were a political opponent. The press secretary denied. This was opposition research. There's no. Research, being dumped to reporters, we have very specific question by the Washington Post. Not Question was president. Trump noted that doctor felt she had made some mistakes, and we provided a direct answer to what was a direct question. Dr, doughty says he hasn't briefed the president and more than two months multiple White House. Officials tell ABC News that he has a nickname in the west wing, doctor, gloom and doom. Doom today in a livestream with the Stanford Medical School Dr Doughty ignored it all focusing on the raging public health crisis. We haven't even begun to see the end of it yet. In another indication, the crisis is far from over over the weekend. The president for the first time in public win along with CDC guidelines on masks, covering his face during a visit to the Walter Reed Medical Center. Joe Biden stepped up to defend Dr Faculty today. tweeting quote Donald Trump needs to spend less time playing golf and more time. Listening to experts like Dr Fallacy Biden by the way, said that if he is elected, he will reach out to Dr, FAUCI and ask him to continue his service in the government David. John Carr with US tonight. Thank you. John the battle of the put out a fire raging in us. Continues Tonight more than twenty four hours now after an explosion on board in San Diego hundreds of sailors, battling the flames, helicopters, dousing it with water and tonight real questions about a million gallons of fuel onboard. Here's Martha Raddatz. One of the main radar and communications towers on the ship now collapsed the heat so intense reaching thousand degrees to smoke so dangerous. Four hundred sailors and firefighters forced to rotate on and off the ship every fifteen minutes, as they battled a massive blaze Navy helicopters, dropping hundreds of buckets of water on the burning ship and powerful jets of water, pumped from boats and from shore super-secret damage. We see visibly. there's the earned ind all the way through ship. Nearly Sixty sailors and civilians were injured from smoke, inhalation and exhaustion all now released from the hospital after an explosion in the cargo area of the ship quickly spread the Bonham Rashard was undergoing maintenance when the fire broke out. The navy is determined to see her. Get underway again, but the fire is not yet under control, and even if it survives, it will likely be years before the ship is back in service. The ship's fire suppression system was essentially turned off. Off Because of the maintenance on the ship but David we should add the navy still feels confident that they can contain the fire before tonight's the million gallons of fuel, still onboard David that is a real concern. Arrate Martha, thank you. We also have new reporting tonight on Jeffrey Epstein's alleged. Co Conspirator Glenn. Maxwell authorities now revealing details of her arrest in New Hampshire the FBI breaking through the door, and what they said she did when they got there and what they found wrapped in tin foil. Here's even pilgrim. Agents arrived at this one hundred fifty six acre property in New Hampshire to arrest Colin Maxwell prosecutors say she tried to flee to another room in the house. Agents were ultimately forced to breach the door inside the home. Agents found a cell phone wrapped in Tinfoil on top of a desk, a seemingly misguided effort to evade detection from law enforcement. Prosecutors in a new court filing today, asking a federal judge to keep Maxwell, the former girlfriend alleged Co conspirator of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein behind bars, saying she played an essential role in sexual exploitation of Minors Maxwell is also being sued by three women who alleged she and Epstein worked together to abuse them. Including any farmer WHO's lawsuit alleges she was sixteen when she met Epstein and Maxwell through her older sister Maria. They were master manipulators I think that it's a particular type of sickness that they displayed in taking advantage of. The love you have for sibling. Maxwell's bond hearing is scheduled for tomorrow. This is still very much an active investigation prosecutor, saying that more witnesses have come forward since Maxwell's arrest. She continues to deny all allegations David or you thank you now to the NFL team. That will be called. The Washington redskins longer. The team will drop the name Redskins. They owner of the team once said he would never do it. Saying you can put that in caps. ABC's Rachel Scott Tonight on the turning point. Tonight Washington's NFL team buckling under pressure dropping the redskins name and logo announcing the franchise's new name will inspire our sponsors, fans and For the next one hundred years, the Navajo nation still with harsh words for the team that's used the racist slur. Despite decades-long outrage, saying this change did not come about willingly by the team's owners, but by mounting pressure in advocacy of indigenous peoples teacher decision for the country, not just for native. Peoples Because it closes a painful chapter. Denigration disrespect owner Dan Snyder. Once famously said will never change the name. Never you can use caps. The turning point came as some of the teams biggest sponsors Fedex. Nike and Pepsi demanded a change the economics of it. We're not going to allow Washington's football team to continue on with that nickname. And David One potential name gaining traction among fans tonight the Washington, Red Tails and honored the fiscal year, Man David Rachel Scott, great to have you Rachel across the country tonight, growing pressure on lawmakers to move forward on police reform in the wake of George Floyd's death, and the protests that followed tonight here, the powerful and moving voices in that fight seven mothers who tonight speak together for the first time with our Deborah Roberts. Tonight as legislators from Boston to Charleston debate measures on police reform, seven women, seven mother's raising their voices, joining the fight, but yes, that we all share as mothers will. Be The key is that will break? America forever connected in grief. They're speaking out after losing their own children violently many at the hands of police. What do you say to each other wonder when you see each other? It's not that you can really tell. A person is going to this type of paying to make to make them feel better. Wonder Cooper Jones the mother of. Of Ahmad rb sharing her pain with two Meka Palmer on her daughter. Brianna Taylor's birthday. It was nice to get the message just to know that you know. Somebody feels the way that I feel. Four months ago today police raided Taylor's apartment shooting her eight times as she slept Ahmad and Briana joining a sad list names on the lips of protesters across the country demanding change. Change. Michelle Kenney had conversations with her son. Antoine rose about what it means to be a young black man in America that in no one so the day after one that he actually hurt me. Police shot him during a traffic stop two years ago. He was seventeen his teacher later. Sharing this poem, Antoine wrote I see mothers bury their sons. I want my mom to never. Never feel that pain I understand people believe I'm just a statistic, said to them. I'm different I. AM confused and Afraid New had never seen that poem before comb ended up being reality all the way I'm no longer trying to stay the life of my son, but if I can save the life of another mothers Gel, I'm going to do it every day of the week. Such remarkable strength and resilience these MOMS say that they're sharing their stories with the hope that the rest of us won't be content to sit silently. They're hoping that this moment will spark a real movement for Change David Already Deborah Roberts powerful conversation, thanks step and much more of her conversation with those moms tonight on nightline and of course online at Good Morning America Dot Com. Tonight, remembering actress in mom, Kelly Preston John. Travolta's wife passing away after a private two year battle with breast cancer, the seeing the moving tribute from Travolta. Here's Kelly Horta. Tonight and outpouring of emotion for the death of actress Kelly, Preston losing her private battle with breast cancer at fifty seven years old. She started a number of hits including Jerry Maguire what was our deal when we first got together brutal truth remember. I think you added. Preston was diagnosed two years ago. Her husband of twenty nine years John Travolta on instagram. She fought a courageous fight with the love and support of so many. I will be taking some time to be there for my children. WHO LOST THEIR MOTHER? so forgive me in advance. If you don't hear from us for awhile, this family has endured tragedy before losing their sixteen year old son jet to a seizure in two thousand nine tonight, Preston's daughter Ella, honoring her on social media, anyone who was lucky enough to have known you or to have ever been in your presence will agree that you have a glow and a light that never ceases to shine. David a family representative telling people magazine. Preston chose to keep her battle private, but was supported by her closest family and friends. David loved ones remembering her tonight Kelly. Thank you, and when we come back tonight news on the actress who was missing her four year old found alone on that boat. If like getting the story behind the story checkout start here, the Daily News podcast from ABC News every morning. Start here we'll get you ready for your day with inciteful straightforward reporting a few of the day's biggest headlines from groundbreaking breaking investigative reports to the revelations, Shaping your world recently honored with prestigious Edward. R murrow award. Start here takes you inside the stories that matter, and where they're headed next, so start smart. We start here. Check it out on apple podcasts or your favorite podcast. Tonight in the search for actress and mother Ni- Rivera, in Lake pyro California authorities today recovering bodies, saying they're confident, it is her. She disappeared while boating and swimming with her four year old son, no foul play, a dangerous heat wave from California to Florida twelve states under advisories and warnings, tonight, and also severe storms from Colorado to Minnesota, hail, damaging and possible tornadoes beyond the watch finally the wife and her dream job. Marine Steve Daniel from Jacksonville. Florida and they've been married twenty four years Mary visiting Steve's window at the rose, castle at deer would assisted living facility since March. And Mary determined to keep that promise of a hug person how she plied for job as a dishwasher there to get inside tonight right here Mary with news. You'll hear thrilled to be able to tell you about my new dream. Job Mary is washing dishes I haven't seen him in one hundred and fourteen days, so it is an absolute honor to be there. For Temperature Chet before heading into the kitchen. Then afterwards, Mary walking into her husband's room. You. Mary's head on her husband's shoulder. Don't give up. There is hope things will get better. Don't give up. Washing dishes to hug her husband.

David president Dr Anthony Fauci President Tru California Texas Jeffrey Epstein Houston Kelly Preston San Diego White House John Travolta Florida NBA Martha Raddatz Dr Anthony Fauci Glenn Maxwell Russell Westbrook ABC News breast cancer Redskins
How Hydroxychloroquine Became A Thing

On The Media

19:15 min | 4 months ago

How Hydroxychloroquine Became A Thing

"And I say it. What do you say to get? What do you have to lose on Saturday? President trump again touted the use of hydroxy chloroquine an anti-malaria drug as a potential treatment for covert nineteen the USC announced has stockpiled. Twenty nine million doses. Though the basis for using the drug to treat the disease is entirely anecdotal. Some doctors are already using it in hospitals around the country. Some report that it might be useful in the early stages of covert nineteen. But we really don't know. And what do we have to lose? There are side effects. Experts warn and it is potentially fatal for patients with heart problems or who are on certain antidepressants. And then there's the side effect of a shortage for people who are actually prescribed drugs clerk in four illnesses like lupus and rheumatoid arthritis yet. We have to be careful Laura that we don't assume something works based on an anecdotal report. That's not controlled and I refers specifically to hydroxy chloroquine. Dr Anthony FAUCI Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases has been urging caution in White House briefings and in media interviews such as this one with Fox's Laura Ingram. There's a lot of buzz out there on the Internet on the social media about that. Oh there are many eccentric way. Well those studies. Some of them were not control. So why the intense media interest in hydroxy chloroquine even before the president's started talking it up reporting this week for the Guardian Julia. Carrie Wong traced the not so winding path from Fox News. The trump's ears. It's become kind of a mean within the news cycle and among the general populace in a way that is pretty substantially disconnected to the degree to which it's actually important within the medical response hydroxy chloroquine which I think. Is You know. It's a great malaria. Drug a doctor ause yesterday the President United States was talking about hydroxy chloroquine which you've Detail for a number of weeks. Also tonight we have big big developments on a hydroxy corkwood. It is one of several treatments that might end up being useful but the narrative around Roxy Clerk has far exceeded any actual science supporting whether or not it will end up being important to combating this virus and treating people a narrative fed again and again and again by Donald trump himself on march nineteenth. He started specifically calling this drug out by name in his daily press. Briefings and talking it up as something that might be a cure. Now this is kind of like trying to locate patient zero but the media part of their seems to have begun in March. Eighteenth episode of Tucker Carlson's show on Fox so the president has the authority authorize the use of hydroxy chloroquine against corona virus immediately featuring some guy named Gregory Gano Roxie chloroquine has been on the market for over fifty years with a quality safety profile. And I'm here to report that as of this morning. About five o'clock this morning a well-controlled. Peer reviewed study carried out by the most eminent infectious disease specialists in the world did he a raoult. Md Ph d. out of the south of France in which he enrolled forty patients again a well controlled. Peer reviewed study showed a one hundred percent Joe. Wright jury against Corona virus he also claimed an affiliation with Stanford Medical School which tellingly was non existent Not to mention the preposterous claim of a hundred percent cure rate. Now there was a study of sorts he was referring to and it was published. But we'll tell me about the but this study was published in a respectable journal. It was peer reviewed the Journal of the International Society of Anti Microbial Chemotherapy. Right you know. There's been a lot of concern about P- reprints and studies that get out into the public before their peer reviewed but this actually made it through peer review but it was nevertheless a fairly flawed study. The Professional Association that publishes the Journal has now issued a formal statement of concern about the method. What were the obvious red flags in the construction of this study such that it was so there's the gold standard for how you want a study to be setup that's called a double blind randomized controlled trial. This basically means that you don't want either the doctor or the patient to know whether or not they got the drug or they got the placebo so that takes out bias that you might have. Doctors treating people differently based on whether or not they're part of the treatment group or the control group you want to be randomized which means that you don't get to pick and say well everybody. That looks really healthy. Goes into the treatment group and everybody that looks a little bit. Sicker goes into the control group and you want it to be controlled which means that the two groups are fairly equivalent. They're made up of people from the same population. You don't have all sorts of confounding factors. None of those basic standards were met here. It was open label which means that they knew who got each group. It was not randomized. They actually drew from totally different populations. All of the patients that got the drug were at one hospital in Marseille. The patients who did not get the drug who are called a control group even though this is not really considered a strong actual control came from other area hospitals. And we're just kind of chosen to be the control but even more importantly than those kind of design flaws. There's a lot of concern about the things that they chose to look at. This was a study that was based on how quickly the patients clear the virus from their system. They did not judge the patients based on their clinical outcome. Which is did they get better or not. There were four people in the group that got hydroxy Clarkin who actually did not get better. One of them died and three of them were transferred to the ICU which is pretty poor clinical outcome. They said that the patients who were transferred to the ICU. And the patient who died we're simply excluded from the study because it was not possible to continue to take their NASAL SWABS. And so that is a really significant. Flaw that fundamentally creates a misrepresentation of what the outcome of this treatment has been we in the global public were not primarily concerned with whether or not people clear viral load from their nasal passages were primarily concerned with whether or not they get better so when. Anthony Fauci says we need to do rigorous scientific testing. You don't have that information. It's understandable. Why people may want to take something anyway. Even with the slightest hint of it being affected he is speaking about precisely the randomized. Double Blind experimented that you described with factly any way you look at the This study is not that yes. And those trials are ongoing. The World Health Organization is running this large international clinical trial with four different treatments. That they're looking at and hydroxy. Clarkin is one of the four because there is a plausible theory that hydroxy clerk can could have a positive impact in the fight against this virus. It's just a known whether or not that is the case. There is a piece in the Wall Street Journal. Op Ed by doctors in Kansas promoting the use of hydrochloric when you got in touch with them to ask them what's up. What did they say this was signed by two doctors? One is the director of the Division of infectious disease at the University of Kansas Medical Centers. This op-ed states that researchers in France found that of the patients that they treated one hundred percent of them were cured by day six of the treatment but I reached out to both at the authors to say that this very seriously misrepresents the results of the study and I asked if they wanted to correct that Dr Hint Thorn the Infectious Disease. Doctor did respond to me. He said that my analysis of the front study was correct. That what the study actually told was that the treatment regimen of hydroxy chloroquine and AS Roma might merit further evaluation. He also gave the same kind of general justification for using the drug in his practice. That other people have used which is that. There is no proven treatment. So we're trying this and when I asked him whether he wanted to clarify the OP. Ed which is still existing under the very impressive auspices up the Wall Street Journal to clarify that. He did not respond the other author. Dr Jeff Collier. Who is the former governor of Kansas and a plastic surgeon? Did Not respond to my questions. No we heard in the tape that we played earlier. This Guy Regar- no speaking directly to the president's authority to bypass certain regulatory hurdles. He has more red tape at the FDA than any other president in history. Do you have a sense of this lawyer? How did he become Donald? Trump's drug whisper. I have not been able to establish exactly how it was that he got hooked up with Fox News. The New York Times has reported that there were also other people involved in influencing donald trump around hydroxy chloroquine and talking to him about it including it seems Larry Ellison and and Rudy Giuliani Larry Olson the founder of Oracle rate regardless. I mean he's interesting because he hooked up with a bitcoin investor who has an md but does not appear to practice and they seem to have gotten in touch with the French researchers in kind of the lead investigator with this French team Diego and he did a very effective job of getting the Silicon Valley influencers circuit interested. They put together this Google document. That looked like it was a scientific paper. It was not in any way a scientific paper. It was just kind of a hodgepodge of aggregated links to other studies. But you know had the veneer of authenticity about it and they successfully got that circulating on social media and within Silicon Valley circles up until the point that it was actually shared by Elon. Musk now suddenly. Mainstream outlets are covering the struggle. Because they're saying well Elon. Musk is talking about. According to media matters the liberal media watchdog group Fox on its various shows raised hydroxy chloroquine hundred nine times over three days. I went to draw on Al Pacino in Glengarry Glen Ross. What was their shot? I mean I get it when they talked about voter fraud and Russian hoax but a malaria drug. What was in it for them? I decided to kind of reach out and try to speak to historians of medicine to try to get a bit more of an understanding of. What was the attraction of this miracle? Drug? There's been a lot of speculation that this is motivated by financial concerns. That someone's going to make a lot of money off of Hydroxy Clarkin you know. I don't have strong evidence either way but I don't believe that that is the case this drug off patent it can be manufactured as generic and there can be large amounts of competition on that. And so you don't generally make a lot of money off of generic drugs but I do think that when you have a situation with the right wing partisan media where you know there's been blatant mismanagement of a public health disaster. This is an opportunity to give people hope to have to say if chloroquine or hydroxy chloroquine works Or any of the other things that they're looking at that are not quite as far out but if they work Your numbers are going to come down very rapidly. So we'll see what happens but there's a real chance that they might. They might work. But it's also an opportunity to distract attention from other issues and also to give people an enemy because by creating a scenario where trump can say. I want to give you this drug. This drug will cure everything it's just that the FDA and the scientists and all of these people that don't just go with their gut and listen to what I'm saying. They're the ones that are trying to prevent you from getting this drug. Why not just let the science speak for itself? Why are you promoting this drug? I'm just commoners Shipley. What I'm trying to tweet. Jay Wright started talking about them to try it and it may work. It may not work but it doesn't work it's lost by doing nothing because we know long term. I WANNA save lives and I don't want to be in a lab for the next year and a half as people dying all over the place. It is a very effective way to change the narrative and redirect anger that might be directed at the failures of the federal response to this pandemic. Which is Hell Anthony Fouled? She could find himself facing accusations from the right wing does fear that he is just an agent of the deep state who is willing to spout Mumbo jumbo about science attempting to embarrass the President. While people are dying. I mean there are portions of the American body politics that are very opposed to the FDA that want loosening restrictions. They want it to be much easier to bring drugs to market. I mean there are strong kind of financial motives for certain people to try to lower the standard by which the FDA allows you to sell a drug. You also have a real and persistent anti vaccine movement in this country and around the world and that movement has a very much attached itself to a hydroxy chloroquine. You know it fits into a narrative of saying. They don't want to give us this drug. That will work instead. They want to force us to take a vaccine. That we believe will harm us even though the vaccine doesn't even exist yet and so it fits neatly into that distrust and one of the struggles that you have with a story like hydroxy chloroquine and the way that this narrative has kind of gotten so out of control is that there is no simple story on the other side. There's nothing that is satisfying or that gives people narrative coherence around the idea that a drug exists. It might work. It might not. We just have to wait. I mean that is not a reassuring message at a time when people are seeing body counts in the thousands and there is just intense fear and uncertainty around the countries so on the one hand. Yes there are these niche groups that have glommed onto hydroxy chloroquine and melted into what was already kind of a very particular World View. But you know. It is natural fairly understandable that for large numbers of people that are not conspiracy theorists when they hear the president of the country. Say that a drug should work that they will believe him. Hey you get mail which must be a big thrill for you because who doesn't like recognition. When is it said I have gotten a big response to this story since it was published? And I've actually gotten a lot of very thoughtful emails from people around the world who are just interested in the science. Somebody in France reached out and asked if they could translate it because since the study came out of a pretty well known group of researchers in France. This is very controversial there and being discussed I've also received. I feel like a somewhat surprising amount of hate mail for an article. That just walks you through some methodological flaws in a minor scientific study. There is anger and the kind of the kind vitriol that we see in other areas of really polarized American life around race and immigration and these Very emotive things. That trump's phobia often inspires. That is I was a bit surprised to find was being directed at me. Based on the fact that I had delineated questions and concerns about something scientific which is not fundamentally partisan issue but that has been made partisan by the way that trump has dealt with it. Thank you thank you so much. Juliette Carrie Wong is reporter for the Guardian. She traced the misinformation campaign in herpes. Hydroxy chloroquine. How an unproven drug became. Trump's corona virus miracle cure. That's it for this week's podcast extra but before we go. We wanted to remind you of a powerful tool at your disposal. Yeah keep washing your hands and keeping your distance but also if you like. Oh tm and really how could you not love with all the thrills and spills and background? Music we provide. Could you please rate and review the show on your podcast listening platform of choice not to feed vanity but because it helps other people discover on the media which we think is a net gain can also recommend us to your friends and family in your next zoom? Call whether it's a yoga class. We'RE GONNA Eastern meal and tell them we said. Hey

chloroquine Donald trump president Hydroxy Clarkin France FDA Anthony Fauci Fox News Kansas National Institute of Allergy Wall Street Journal Jay Wright Fox lupus Laura Ingram President United States Professional Association World Health Organization arthritis
 Hydroxychloroquine: How did an unproven drug become Trump's 'miracle cure'?

Today in Focus

24:40 min | 4 months ago

Hydroxychloroquine: How did an unproven drug become Trump's 'miracle cure'?

"Today the story of how an improved malaria drug became Donald. Trump's corona virus cure of choice city. This might be a really short interview because it's great news right. We've found a cure for right virus. Oh don't we all just wish and the other thing that we've bought a tremendous amount of is the hydroxy chloroquine hydroxy caloric win one. Could this Miracle Cure will be ready? This miracle cure was ready sixty five years ago but unfortunately it is not a miracle cure malaria. Drug it's unbelievably powerful drug on malaria and there are signs it at works on this some very strong signs. Does it Work Julia? You know we honestly just don't know anybody who claims otherwise. It's not really telling the truth. What do you have to loose? Really think they should take it as questions over his handling of the crisis grow. Donald trump suggested Americans taken unproven. Drug Could Hydroxy. Chloroquine to treat corona virus. It is being considered by the World Health Organization as a potential treatment for nineteen. They have warned against taking it until there is sufficient evidence that it improves. Chances of survival doing so could have fatal consequences. The hype around Hydroxy Kirkman has led to a shortage in the US putting those who need it for other conditions at risk from the Guardian. I'm Rachel Humphries. Today in focus how malaria drug become hailed as a miracle. Cure for corona virus. Can you explain what is hydrochloric win? So hydroxy chloroquine is a fairly old drug. It's a new version of an even older drug known as clerk. Lyn which is a drug that was used very effectively to fight Malaria Julia. Keri Wong is the Guardians Technology reporter. Malaria is a parasite. It's not actually all that close to the corona virus. They're totally different types of bugs. That can make you sick but often when there is a new virus that appears one of the things that scientists will do will be just to take a lot of the existing drugs and say. Let's try this out and see if it has any effect and they'll just do that in a petri dish in the lab to say. Does this work does not work. Is there any hope that this could help us? Because we don't have anything right now. That can help patients that are suffering from Cova nineteen so in this case scientists in China and then later in in South Korea said all right. Let's give it a try. You know. Take some samples. Put some hydroxy chloroquine in there and see what happens. Health authorities say Chinese researchers are looking to see if three existing drugs can inhibit the novel. Coronavirus data is now being collected. What happened was that in the lab? It did show some positive effects but what has not been shown yet is whether that translates into into actual human beings and there was also a study in France of hydroxy chloroquine right so a group of of infectious disease. Doctors in France decided to take the next step. Which would be to test this on human patients? You know this is called a clinical trial and there are a lot of standards that doctors physicians would normally use when they were running a clinical trial in order to make sure that the experiment actually Proves or disprove. What we wanted to this is. What's called a double blinded? Randomized controlled study is controlled. Trial is the trade language for this and it involves taking two groups of people that are roughly equivalent giving half of them the drug giving the other half of them a placebo and then going through the treatment and seeing well. Did this make people better. Did it not make people better? These trial apparently found the heidrick. Sikora Quinn was one hundred percent successful as a treatment for corona virus. But how on Earth did they reach that conclusion? They started with forty two patients and those various standards that we just talked about as far as double-blind did and controlled and randomized basically. None of those standards were followed. Half of the patients were in a single hospital in Marseille and those were all the patients that received the drug whereas the control were taken from people in other hospitals. Which is not really the way that you would design a well controlled study the treatment groups. The patients that got the drug were significantly older than the control group. Which is another confounding variable. That makes it harder to understand. What's going on because the patients who got the drug were in one hospital in the patients who didn't wear in different hospitals. That's not a double blinded study. It means that the doctors knew who got the treatment and that can introduce its own bias. Because the doctors might end up even unconsciously treating people differently ultimately what happened is that of those forty two patients three were transferred to the Intensive Care Unit. Which means that. They have gotten significantly worse for that to be necessary. One died one left the hospital for reasons that are unknown and one stopped taking the drug because they were experiencing bad nausea the other thirty six recovered and when you looked at the difference between those thirty six those who received the drug did recover faster than those who did not receive the drug and this is how when the scientists went to report their findings. They said well. The Treatment Group did much better than the non treatment group but what they left out of that analysis was that the three who were transferred to the intensive care unit and the one who died as well as the other two who left the study. We're all part of the treatment group by not including those clinical outcomes. They were able to assert that they had this one hundred percent curate but for most people a very important thing to measure would be. Did this person get better? Did they get worse or did they die? And so in this case we had a very kind of selective accounting of what the results from the study were and that then translated into this really outrageous claim of having a one hundred percent cure rate. These are controversial results to say the least who conducted this trial. This study was carried out by a group of physicians led by Diego. He has kind of put himself out there as a kind of populist figure speaking to the masses about his so-called cure shall do that. The key has been putting out youtube videos before he even started the clinical trial. He's has amassed a large fan base in France of people who are urging the government to allow them to get access to this drug. He's had hundreds of thousands of people sign an online petition. And I've just actually googled him. Do been speaking to you. And he all of his pitches. He's go very long hair gray hair and beard and he's always wearing a white lab coat he kind of looks like a medical Jesus. That is kind of how he's presenting himself. You know he's been on the cover of Paris Match of the magazine of some had kind of this this rockstar media presence. Okay Julius. You've told me about this unreliable. Very small study in Marseilles that was being run by D. Arou- who's a great self promoter and you know. His told the world about how successful his studies. But how did that message arrived in America? There was a very kind of interesting and strange confluence between this French. Study and a pair of kind of. I don't know how to how to describe them. But apparent kind of bizarre hype men who glommed onto the idea of hydroxy chloroquine and decided to kind of make it their mission to hype this up in America. These two men one of them is named a Gregory Regon. Oh He is a lawyer. He has claimed falsely to be an adviser to Stanford Medical School. He is no such thing. The other one is a man named James Daro. He has a medical degree but I do not believe that. He's a practicing doctor. He's currently a blockchain investor. And the two of them got together and wrote a Google Doc. They formatted it in such a way that it kind of looked like a scientific paper. Although again it didn't really basically what it was was kind of. Just a you know a Google doc that aggregated and Cherry picked all of the potential evidence that could be out there somehow and I'm not a hundred percent. Sure how this happened. It took off in Silicon Valley. There are a ton of investors and tech people in Silicon Valley that have an interest in biotech. They have knowledge of how statistics work. And I think that those two things combined with a healthy ego have led to a lot of people in the tech industry around the tech industry thinking that they have more expertise in medicine and immunology than they might actually have up until the point that it was actually shared on twitter by Elon. Musk who is not just influential in Silicon Valley but really one of the most influential men in the world and so he has almost thirty three million twitter followers and lead to a giant spike in the interest around the country. And really around the world in hydroxy chloroquine after this how the promise of hydrochloric seen as a treatment for corona virus spread from Silicon Valley to the White House. The first I wanted to thank all of your support in times of global crises trusted news is more important than ever and the garden is committed to accurate reliable. Means you can help us. To provide the quality information the world needs by supporting the Guardian just. Www dot the guardian dot com forward slash support. Podcasts thanks to. We've talked about how this message the hydrocare Quinn could be. A cure for. Corona virus traveled from France to America and caused a stir in Silicon Valley. But how did it reach Donald Trump after this rush of of attention from Ilan very quickly it also got picked up by Fox News and on March Eighteenth? Gregory regard no appeared on Fox News. Show welcome into Tucker Carlson tonight where he declared the results of the French study which actually not even been officially published yet. As of this morning a well controlled. Peer reviewed study carried out by the most eminent infectious disease specialist in the world and he said that this drug had quote unquote one hundred percent curate a virus. That's remarkable is inter. I missing something. That is remarkable in fact to be able to cure virus was said to be mathematically impossible. That's the biggest news of this moment. Thank you thank you leave disseminated to the scientific community immediately over the next couple of days. Fox News just hyped hydroxy chloroquine like you wouldn't believe exciting news about hydroxy chloride hydroxide chloroquine hydroxy chlorophyll. Hydroxy Clark and early about hydroxy chloroquine. And its core. Quinn is a very safe drug and it saved lives. Media matters did an analysis. They found that they promoted the drug more than a hundred times over the course of three days while it's a law. Yeah I mean. It's it's just astonishing that this became kind of the talking point in the pro trump media and within less than twenty four hours from the Gregory Gano segment on Tucker. Carlson trump himself started talking about this drug in his daily press. Briefings thank you very much. And what did he say about it? He started out being a bit more circumspect but as days have gone on. He's really started to just wholeheartedly. Endorse it saying. I've seen things that I sort of like. So what do I know? I'm not a doctor. I'm not a doctor but I have common sense. Why Not Take it? You have nothing to lose. It may work. It may not work. I feel good about it is just a feeling smart guy. He's very much been promoting this as the one and only cure that he really talks about. Try It if you'd like. He has a giant bully pulpit and when he mentioned that drug by name I mean just a huge amount of attention has gone to it and it has just had enormous impacts around the globe. He's also tweeted about it saying it could be one of the biggest game changes in the history of medicine but medical experts said about it. Since he city I raised at medical experts have tended to be very circumspect because what they are generally saying you know from Dr Anthony Fao Choo. Who is kind of the top infectious disease doctor in the US and around the world is that they're just saying that we do not know the data are really just at best suggestive. Okay so I think in terms of science I don't think we can definitively center. We're interested in this drug. There's a chance that this drug could have a positive impact but whether or not it works and whether or not it's safe in this situation is simply unknown and it's very difficult to counteract somebody who is expressing a lot of certainty and positively and a very frightening and uncertain time. Have there been a lot of people you have tried to procure this drug since the media started talking about it yes very much so as soon as trump started talking about this drug a lot of things changed I mean. Initially India put in place. Export controls Indian factories. Make most of the Hydroxy Clark win in the world so that immediately kind of created a shock to the market for it pharmacists across the country. Say It's flying off the shelves. We're seeing Prescribers calling into pharmacies and trying to obtain mass quantities of hydroxy core quicker. It's not an over the counter drug. You have to have a prescription. So it's not like people are going out and buying it up personally but there were a lot of reports of physicians trying to to stock up on it and I mean there have been health systems hospitals various doctors using it either as part of clinical trials or as what's called Compassionate use basically saying because there are no drugs. Known can help. There are some doctors and medical systems which are saying we might as well use this because we don't have anything else to offer these patients. Besides you know support care inside this Texas city senior living facility there's an incredible cluster of cove in nineteen infected people. Would they've gone at the one hundred thirty five bed? Nursing home called the resort and Texas city is a life threatening problem and the attempted. A solution is either bold or reckless depending on your perspective. Don't you worry about the flip side? If something were to go wrong though certainly not certainly not a laboratory these are these are medications. That have been around for so kind. What's happening. Here is a living breathing. Live human study using the malaria. Drug Hydroxy chloroquine. And you got crazy. You can use this drug for Corona Virus based on that Compassionate Carol yes and that has created in many parts of the world shortage. I mean this drug is not commonly used for malaria anymore. But it is used by people who have these autoimmune diseases. Lupus rheumatic arthritis lupus in November. Two thousand seventeen and I was immediately prescribed Corey Also known as now many of them in the US and other countries in India are now finding almost impossible to get the drug that they rely on to live without pain and to you know to have a certain standard of living because this has been part of their general treatment for years it ears a little disheartening to know that someone has medication sitting on their shells as they just in case when there are thousands of folks like me who definitely need it in who rely on it every day and we can't get it. Has anyone been her as a result of taking it do we know yes they have there was a couple in Arizona who reportedly after hearing trump reprimand. This drug Ended up taking a compound that they had in their house for aquarium cleaning. That had a similar name and that it's believed that they thought that it would be a prophylactic and one of them actually died from the poisoning. Abc Fifteen. We're hearing from friends of a valley man who died after trying to self medicate to protect against the corona virus. Gary and Wanda were best friends. They were inseparable. They were also scared about Cova. Nineteen Wanda telling her. Frank Carryanne Monday morning. We thought we were going to get sick. So we took something. Chloroquine phosphate similar but different than the prescription drug chloroquine something they'd Heard. President trump touting Nigeria. There were three reported cases of overdose from people. Taking too much hydroxy chloroquine again because they thought that it would protect them from contracting the krona virus. God is so sad. Yeah I mean it's just terrible and yesterday we actually heard from someone who claims they were treated with the drug for covert Rita Wilson. Who's married to Tom? Hanks describe what she experienced. After she says she was given Heidrick. Sikora Quinn and I know people have been talking about this drug. But the chloroquine had such extreme side effects. I was completely nauseous. A and I had vertigo. I could not walk and my muscles felt very we. I think people have to be very considerate about that draw. Obviously these drugs can be very dangerous but there are t physicians in Kansas. He say they're treating their covert nineteen patients with this drug. And it's making a difference. You spoke to them. What did they tell you? These are two two physicians who actually wrote an OP. Ed Piece for the Wall Street Journal promoting the Hydroxy Corcoran and AS Roma ascend cocktail. And saying that in the absence of other treatments that they were going to go ahead and use this. You have to go to war with the weapons you have at the time. And we don't have any other weapons except social distancing and you know great medical care but we don't have tool. I read them and I said. You know you've sat again in this article. That one hundred percent of the patients in France were cured in that is true. You want to correct that. I heard back from one of them. Dr Daniel Hinson. And he's an infectious disease doctor and he said that. I was right. You know that there were concerns about this study. He also said that given that there are no drugs that are known to work that for him. It made sense to at least try this one because it could give hope but he did not agree or or respond to me when I asked whether he might consider correcting this op-ed which which I thought really misstated. What the facts are for the drug. You mentioned hope and I think that's the really interesting underlying theme in all of this that you know lots of people might be talking about promoting a drug that is not proven to be a cure for corona virus but ultimately that's all anyone in the world really hopes for the moment and hopes that we will be able to find one scene. Do you think that's the reason that that trump has been urging people to use hydroxy chloroquine because he hopes it will work or other reasons? You know I think the idea of hope is actually the main reason why this is being promoted so hard there has been a lot of suspicion that somehow this is another situation where somebody stands to make a lot of money. The New York Times had a report about a week ago where they they revealed that trump has a small personal investment in one of the companies that manufacturers drowsy and that was kind of taken by a lot of people as proof that this is a this is a situation where trump is looking for personal gain. I actually do not think that that stands up to scrutiny for one thing. It's it's a very very small investment more importantly this is a generic drug that is made by many different manufacturers. However we do have a situation where the richest country in the world supposedly the most powerful country in the world has managed to massively fail at protecting its citizens from this pandemic. I think everybody knows that. And so he is using. I think the hope of a potential easy accessible treatment. I believe it as a way to give people something else to think about and to give people something to distract them from thinking about why it is that we still don't have widespread testing and why it is that our healthcare system such as it is is buckling in cities like New York to thank you very much. Thank you so much. That was g carry one. You can read a piece about hydroxyl chloroquine at the garden dot com where you can also follow the work of our brilliant. Us team who were reporting on. How Corona virus is unfolding in America and Response to this episode. James Dario told us he received his medical degree from Columbia University. An Ivy League medical school and then two to three year residency in ophthalmology. You also told us that pinned his twitter account James Daro. Md is the most comprehensive compilation of evidence. For and against hydrocare equate. This is a different document from the one. Julia mentions in this episode. Let Document which was shared by Elon. Musk is no longer available online. Today's episode was produced by cheek as and sound design was by Ian Chambers. Executive produces a film not a Nicole Jackson. Thanks for listening. We'll be back with you tomorrow.

chloroquine Donald Trump Malaria France Sikora Quinn Cure Chloroquine US America Hydroxy Clark Guardian cure twitter Julia Fox News Google Marseilles World Health Organization Tucker Carlson
The Fragility Of Life - Dr. Herman Williams

The Gratitude Podcast - Stories That Inspire Positive Thinking

40:25 min | 1 year ago

The Fragility Of Life - Dr. Herman Williams

"We're here at circle. K witnessing a legendary drink mix for seventy nine cents looks like he's going with red sports drink and now lemon lime soda. The Chola prospect top fuller POPs in rosters are only seventy nine cents each at circle k limited time only at participating locations at farmers insurance. We know a roof can withstand a lot one exception being an airborne car seen it covered it click for more of under it my farmer's truck fire insurance exchanges and affiliates products available in every state in grateful being humble having humility <hes> is something that reinforces even more good things to happen into you and I think <hes> it's inspiring being humble and having humility <hes> you know you we recognize those people throughout the course of our day. Eh you see someone was grateful and thank you so much and you know and you just WanNa continue to help that person so I think <hes> being grateful having gratitude brings more <hes> blessings to you if you will welcome to the gratitude podcast on W._W._w.. Dot George Bente Dot Com. You'll hear a new story each week that will inspire more gratitude in your own life. Our mission is to inspire aspire one hundred thousand people discover how to feel gratitude and live a happy life through the amazing life stories of our successful guests and they're actionable tips had now the host of our podcast Georgian Bente high gratitude seeker welcome onto a new episode of gratitude podcasts today with us. We have knocked Herman Williams at age thirty-one about to achieve his dream of becoming an orthopedic surgeon to elite Athletes Herman Williams experienced life changing event that left him depressed and disabled we the love and support of his family friends and mentors Williams himself and created the deeply fulfilling life and career a year that helps more people than he could ever dream of clear living the life you didn't dream of is both a memoir and the how to guide with exercises and action steps designed designed to help the reader create their own best life possible welcome to the gratitude podcast Dr her money. Thank you thank you so much pleasure to be here. It's my a pleasure to have you here. <hes> I think that it's very interesting <hes> like the name of the book that you wrote his very interesting and I would love for you to expand a little bit on that like go. How did you name the book? That's a good question. <hes> the book is called clear and then the tagline living the life. You didn't dream initially. I wanted to call the book living the life. You didn't dream and very dear friend of mine. Actually <hes> Richard Manson who wrote the forward on the book was kidding me. He's at Herman them too long. You know people will come in the bookstore saying I want that book living something I can't remember and so I thought long and hard and we came up with clear <hes> and clear clear has several meanings for me. Excuse me one of them. <hes> clear is what you say after you put the defibrillator pads on someone and it's your way telling everybody around the patient. Don't anybody touch the patient because if you're touching the patient and we shocked the patient you'll get shocked also so that's sort of a <hes> a well-known term term when people say clear <hes> so that's one way because I was resuscitated which put me on this journey but the other thing is the clarity that I got from <hes> repeated challenges to my hell <hes> and being able to overcome those and really the clarity with which I've determined my mission in life and so clear really got sort of a double meaning for the book beautiful beautiful and how the Tagline I think that's very interesting as well yes so you know like many a people probably like all people I develop these <hes> very elaborate dreams <hes> and I in the book I encourage people to shed dreams and goals for themselves themselves because if you don't dream you don't you know you don't challenge yourself and you certainly will get you don't dream but I had I mean I had it all figured out in my head I was going to <hes> become a physician and then I was going to apply to <hes> residency in Orthopedic Surgery which all of that happened I had made connections with the curling Joe Clinic in Los Angeles California Orange. I had <hes> rotated through <hes> the <hes> sentinel hostile Los Angeles California where a lot of the surgeries for the curling Joe Clinic were being performed at that time I knew the team doctor for the rams. Everything was just you know who's all lined up and then all of a sudden all of that change you know at the blink of an eye and today as I reflect you know I'm living a completely different life that I never even dreamed that I would be doing and <hes> as you mentioned in the intro you know I I had this simple dream of just. This being a physician and single one patient at a time and then I ended up being achieved medical officer of an organization <hes> that had eighteen hospitals in twelve states and ten thousand doctors there's and you know hundreds and hundreds of thousands of patients and so it was a it it. It's a dream that I never even imagined I'd be doing the kinds of things that I am doing now and how much more influential all day our than I could ever have seized so that's where the tagline comes from mess beautiful and I think it's very wise because oftentimes we dream of different things like how our life how we would love our life to be but it doesn't always yet to that and <hes> having had also some some challenges <hes> that can put your life on a different path and I think that's very wise and very beautiful to say that <hes> living the life didn't dream of but <hes> life that you still appreciate even if it's something different than what you wanted <hes> maybe a few years ago few tens of years ago and that's the challenge for us as individuals <hes> and I try and get this across in the book. Is You have to be open to what your passes and sometimes we think we know what that is and and you know many people end up on different paths and I just tell folks just the open she would <hes> because it could be much bigger much greater much more rewarding <hes> don't fight it. Don't be upset <hes> when things change because sometimes <hes> you know. There's a silver lining <hes> I. I give you just a very quick example. I mean I was a chief medical officer for eighteen years years. I've never been without a job since nineteen ninety seven and in November of this past year twenty eighteen I was told that as a result of a merger with another organization that I was GonNa be let go in my first reaction you know is Oh my God. What am I gonNA do? How am I gonNA pay my mortgage? How am I gonNa you know I got a kid in school and and my wife just said just be patient? You know something is going to happen. Just just don't stress it. You know don't worry and now we don't WanNa be naive like I'm not GonNa sit here in my room and you know lightning gonNA strike in the front yard. Somebody's he's GonNa walk in and say hey congratulations new job. You know so you you know you gotTA do your homework. You have to be out looking for other alternatives. You gotta be talking to people and whatnot but I mean literally <hes> re months later. I'm doing something completely different that has just become so rewarding for me now. I'm a healthcare consultant utilizing all that those eighteen years of experience to help other hospitals and other medical centers with their challenges and so you know again I could've been depressed and been angry and and missed I all of that time. That really was time that I could have taken off and relax in preparation so remember the next exciting journey is <hes> so <hes> just just be patient and and know that there's something better on that's GonNa come along beautiful beautiful. I couldn't imagine the two possibilities and how different the energies when when you think about Guan or the other like now come out on of them you only think about what's not working on the fact that like the world has ended somehow and actually gives gives you hope and empowers you makes you feel that you can do interesting things and something great is waiting for you. Somehow <hes> it's I just believe an Unbeliev- you have to focus that energy you know and you almost have to will it. I mean but again you've gotta do your Hort to you got to go out and see people. You've got to go and get interviews. You've got to prepare are your resume and I went through all that <hes> but <hes> I just knew I was going to be doing something. I didn't know what that was going to be and by the way I I wanted you too <unk> about what you said a few minutes ago what they didn't want to interrupt you so at you were in the situation where you heard clear and <hes> I want. I want to talk a little bit about your your life changing event and <hes> how you managed to overcome it. What do you want me to start? Ah at the day the yeah well what happened before if that's <hes> interesting and relevant and also at the end of at the end of the story <hes> I love how you managed to overcome so it it really came as a surprise to me as typically you know being a physician in having treated patients a lot of a lot of <hes> life changing events come spontaneously without any warning and money was no exception. I felt like I was the picture of Health I was thirty one. I was playing intramural sports. I was working out <hes>. I mean you know I felt. Just you know invincible. You feel like man I'm GonNa be. I'm GonNa live forever and all of a sudden. I am you know and and in retrospect I did have some warning signs. I was having <hes> rapid heart rates <hes> that were server leading me to feeling like I was going to be fade need but we worked all that up with you know very sophisticated <hes> cardiac workup and it turned out that they said everything's normal and <hes> <hes> I remember my doctor's telling me that you know we could put you on an anti arrhythmic but the symptoms and the side effects from the Anti arrhythmic medication would be worse than the symptoms that you're feeling now from and you know the rapid heart rate so they told me stop drinking coffee and <hes> no more caffeine products and you know you're good to go and then you know Gosh that was in September of ninety and in April of nineteen ninety one I had literally a cardiac arrest and just drop dead on the Basketball Court <hes> we would later find out that I had a rare <hes> cardiac heart disease called right ventricular displays you that typically presents itself in the <hes> thirties <hes> you know early to mid thirties and people's lives and it just had manifested to the extent where it could be detected by the testing that we've done so we're basically tested too early. Have we tested a little later. We probably would have discovered <hes> the onus but anyway we discovered it drew cardiac arrest but you know so when you talk about the many blessings <hes> first of all I ironically was on a team that was <hes> primarily anesthesia residents <hes> and the significance against that is an anesthesiologist probably the best people when it comes to resuscitation so that's all they do we were working. We were training at a trauma center so the fact that I had four anesthesia residents ABC casin when I went down was a miracle <hes> and then the other thing is <hes> you know normally you go to these basketball games and we're just playing no one's paying attention but I my wife came to the game that day they she was the score keeper and she just happened to sue me slump over <hes> <hes> and just start foaming at the mouth and she screamed at the top of our lungs to the other players to tell them you know Herman were down <hes> so probably those two things <hes> early notification and immediate <hes> c._p._r.. We know today have a lot to do with the outcome of somebody when they have a cardiac arrest I had the best possible chances of survival. Even though <hes> the data showed that ninety percent of people who have a cardiac arrest outside the hospital don't actually survive so the odds were against me but <hes> you know these these guys did an incredible job <hes> they ultimately got me to the hospital. I was then approached by a cardiologist who said we're involved in clinical trials for this new research. It's called an automated <hes> automatic <hes> internal defibrillator and this thing would be put in surgically and we would so patches around your heart art so that <hes> these patches would detect any abnormal rhythm and it would then trigger this device that was subcutaneous under your skin just above your beltline outline and this device was shock. You just like a paramedic and they said you'd never have to worry about calling nine one one again and so you my wife and I said well it sounds like a pretty good idea so we agreed <hes> to be in that clinical trial. <hes> however you know this was twenty eight years ago and we didn't know what we know today about management of of <music> <hes> abnormal heart rhythms and so I was on a very low dose of of an Anti Arrhythmic when I got discharged with this device and as it turned out as I got my strength during back and became more active and more susceptible to arrhythmias I kept having these dangerous rhythms and I kept getting Shar and <hes> I was always awake AAC when I got shot some people pass out and they get shot and then they wake up and you know but for me because I could tolerate such a rapid heart rate I was always awake and alert and literally in the first six months. Thank shocked over forty times <hes> and so it was just a miserable just agonizing <hes> six months until we finally found a medication into words <hes> and I went through every emotion anger you know fear I was so afraid of I was Gonna get shocked and I didn't WanNa leave the house and you know the depression from losing my career. I you know but I for me and I it's different for everybody but when the prayer was just a regular routine for me I just knew that there were better and bigger things for me to do and I knew my life wasn't gonNA end up like this and so I just hung in there <hes> also my wife has just really <hes> spiritual guides. As for me and you know has always just said you know just hanging there. Things are going to be okay. We're going to get through this and <hes> you know we just finally overcame but so I think for me prayer we're safe and having a voted spiritual guide who also was my wife made a huge difference in allowed me to get through that very difficult time. Oh Yeah I can imagine it was something like what I've seen. In my experience of life the things that are closest to us that are <hes> that it can have the greatest impact are those that <hes> says the most like if you have something inside of you actually that can can be triggered in random moments as I understand that can trigger pain is something that I can imagine it wasn't really easy to to to live with and <hes> it's it was something easy to to think about that. It's possible to to have a different kind of life and I think that's that's amazing that you're able to have that kind of faith but they also wanted to ask you if you feel that in those moments <hes> being grateful for the things that were okay helped you yeah I you know I think <hes> obviously <hes> gratitude need <hes> is I think it's reinforcing. I think in grateful being humble having humility <hes> is something that <hes> reinforces even more good things to happen to you and I think <hes> it's inspiring being humble and having humility <hes> <hes> you know you. We've we've recognized those people throughout the course of our day you see someone who's was grateful and thank you so much and you know and you just WanNa continue to help backwards and so I think <hes> being grateful having gratitude brings more <hes> blessings to you if you will it's kind of a reinforcement <hes> and it's just you know life is very difficult <hes> and so I try not to take anything for granted and I she ate the jury the most you know the smallest things in life <hes> that are just continue to be an inspiration and I think that's what keeps me alive and and and encourages me to get up every day you know exactly exactly exactly and I believe there is a beautiful thing between the name of Your Book and <hes> gratitude in the sense that fact that we are not leaving the exact live that we dreamed about may be your children or something can lead us to a path of depression of <hes> anxiety of feeling bad for ourselves but being being flexible and being open to other opportunities other possibilities appreciating them can leave you can lead us to a really different path than really different way of seeing life right yes and I was thinking about your own experience with that with having gone through those <hes> through those moments in which it of course nobody gyms about going through something like that but still it happened and your attitude made the difference right Yes yes and I I think you know <hes> reflecting back and just thinking of the odds that were overcome and just being so grateful sort of also turned into <hes> for me <hes> devoting the rest of my life <hes> turning that gratitude into a mission to help others you know because there are lots of folks who I think get lost <hes> I heard about a woman <hes> actually just last night. A friend of mine told me that she found out that she had the gene for neurologic deficit that our mother and her mother's <hes> but she hasn't manifested any symptoms yet and she's already depressed and has already just Kinda resigned herself <hes> even though you know I said you know to the friend that was telling me this story. I said you know she's missing out on all this this wonderful part of life as she should be enjoying before those symptoms even a manifest. Maybe they walked and I said what happens. If we come up with a cure tomorrow you know so you know I mean so then you go. Why did I why spend all that time you know suffering when I could have been enjoying what so <hes> gratitude has many dimensions too but I've kind of used it as a motivator to help others <hes> who haven't had the opportunity to go through what I've gone through and come out even better on the other side yeah definitely and? I'm thinking about the story that you just told it's it's so interesting how how we can choose to live life like always thinking about the negative thing that's that might be in the near future or in the <hes> farther away and we can also be present and enjoy the little things and enjoy the life that we have have even though that might actually happen at some point but living life just fearing and focusing on the fear is and isn't healthy right. I it's just you know you could get hit by a car today but we don't worry about that. You know because we assume that that that's not something we want to be preoccupied with and it's the same with other illnesses. Don't don't be preoccupied with the worst outcome. <hes> you know I'm I'm humbled by other people as I see other people have other illnesses that they're dealing with you know is that you know there you can enjoy life through relationships and <hes> helping others and enjoying love and enjoying children children and other things you know. Don't don't make life you know be a thing like I have to be. This person and I have to have this job and I have to have this car. <music> are and otherwise you know not I mean life is not about that. It's about to me it's it's about the relationships in the people you help and in the gratitude and that you get throughout life and interacting with other human beings so in all of that to me all ties together. It's just unfortunate that sometimes you have to go through you have to suffer to be able to appreciate Eh yeah indeed indeed and <hes> as you probably already know but I want to point this out. Many of the research on happiness this led to the conclusion that the things that make us the the happiest are our relationships even though he might also be our greatest challenge but <hes> it's our relationships that what's that make us happiest and I think that's that's a really important point that you <hes> that you talked about but they are so on something else <hes> sure you could <hes> w younger self <hes>. I'm thinking about gratitude. What would you tell him you know <hes>? I always felt like I had gratitude. I'm not sure that <hes> that's a that's a good question. I'm not sure <hes> well. I'm not sure I could tell my younger self something that I didn't know at that time <hes> because <hes> this dream that I had embarked on was so huge the only way that I could achieve was through help and mentorship of others so one of the other thing that I did in the book that <hes> may not be immediately obvious but I was able to identify five people people that basically shaped my life to where I am today and so really the book was a tribute to those individuals <hes> and their mentorship and guidance guidance and it was it was really showing gratitude to them for helping me achieve those things and I think I've always known that <hes> but still you know there's a just just a tiny bit of <hes> denial that this is a temporary situation. You know you feel like you're gonNA live forever. You know <hes> <hes>. I don't think that I was arrogant or anything like that but I'm sure there may have been moments where you know we had a little more pride Shitter <hes> but I've always always been a very <hes> sensitive caring person. I've always understood that you can only get from one point to another with the support of others <hes> so so maybe just if I could go back and tell my younger self to just stay humble <hes> in and just stay gracious <hes> and thank those around you because you never know who are going to help you through <hes> so I guess that's all I can say about <hes> Yeah I love it. I love it and by the way it's actually <hes> you actually anticipate one of my questions in the sense that I wanted to ask you or the people in your life where if you want to go just one of them who influence you that you're very grateful for take that you would like to mention well. <hes> there so I mean I think I quickly mention you know one of the people who <hes> really <hes> taught me <hes> to <hes> not blame others for my lack of achieving what I. I wanted to achieve Dr Donald Parks. You know he's sort of put me on the path and he said look at you one to become a doctor and you're GONNA have to get serious and get down with the work and I was kinda halfway. Hey Down with it in blaming other people blaming other situations for why I didn't get into med school but <hes> with his guidance I was able to <hes> get back on the path. <hes> another a person Augusta's white who was a famous orthopedic Surgeon <hes> famous African American who was the first african-american <hes> student at Stanford Medical School <hes> I just took me under his wings and help me publish a paper and really I think is responsible for me getting into my Orthopedic Surgery Program <hes> when I ultimately ultimately found out I couldn't complete my surgery parameters. I was getting defibrillators so much and I quite frankly thought it was unsafe to be operating if I had the risk of getting shots during a procedure I just give up my surgical career. <hes> I had a friend who really who said look <hes>. I'll give you a base salary if you come at work for me as one of my medical directors and she basically taught me all the the skills that I have today in Healthcare Consulting <hes> and then lastly <hes> can't lawless <hes> sort of took me in under his wings when I was beginning eating my career as a chief medical officer and basically tell me about the airports execution and executing a plan he said there are a lot of smart people but they're not a lot of people who can execute on a plan and he taught me significance of that and how to do that and he is responsible for me being ram. Today I mean those individuals starting in <hes> teams seventy eight. H are the ones that got me to worry him today. You know yeah it's just and I think it's important for everyone. Can you go back and figure out those key cheap people who made a difference in your you know <hes> so I get much gratitude to them and <hes> the other thing I point out in the book is I'm an African American a man but I was helped by all kinds of people all different races different different cultures different religions <hes> and I think that's the other thing about gratitude is brings people to you. <hes> people like to see others who appreciate and who were were gracious for things and who are nice and I talked about in my book about kindness which I think is sort of just a step to the right of gratitude is being kind and compassionate and I think that just brings that energy back to you and it makes people want to do things for you <hes> and just opened more pass. That's beautiful beautiful very true and by the way since we're nearing the end of our time together let our audience know where they can find your book yes in my book. <hes> can be <hes> gotten online online at Amazon Dot Com. It's in the Barnes and noble online bookstore. You can also get it on my website. You'd get a signed copy on my website at clear leading the life Dot Com beautiful beautiful so clear living the life you didn't dream of search for Amazon or go to <hes> Herman's website. It was a really real pleasure having on if you want to leave our listeners with <hes> with a message those people that might be a crisis right now or might be dealing with certain challenges I I I would just say the other thing I learned is just perseverance. Always trump's pay you know <hes> part of overcoming <hes> crises whether it's a health crises whether it's a death of a loved one is just giving yourself time hanging in there and it'll it'll get better you know nothing is is terminated. Whether it's your a change in your perception of its war an actual change <hes> in the situation that you're in and you mentioned it also. Is that a triumph find. The positive don't always look at the negative what's deposited Okinawa. You know people say how can I make lemonade out of Lemons. You know not just <hes> I. I think we have a choice in many cases to respond positively to things that happen or respond negatively so I say hang in there and look for the positive <hes> lining in every situation beautiful. Thank you so much for being here with us for sharing your wisdom and your time. I really appreciate it thank you it's been a blessing and I appreciate you giving me an opportunity to speak to your listeners my pleasure hey gratitude seeker. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to this interview. I really appreciate it and if you could think of one person that would also benefit from it share it with them. It might actually be inspiration that they need to make their day or maybe even their life much better. Thank you so much once again. This has been Georgia Banta though forget to keep seeking and spreading gratitude we're here at circle. K witnessing legendary drink mix for seventy nine cent looks like he's going with Red Sports Astray and now Lemon Lime Soda. The Chola froth-pak top AW fuller POPs in rosters are only seventy nine cents each at circle k limited time only at participating locations need to get organized. Today's the day for doing with the home depots packs tour.

Herman Williams medical officer Amazon George Bente Dot Com rams Los Angeles California Basketball depression Joe Clinic Richard Manson Okinawa Guan Hort consultant Georgia Banta
Patrick Mckeon - You've been breathing wrong your whole life!

Dan Churchill's The Epic Table

1:07:43 hr | 3 months ago

Patrick Mckeon - You've been breathing wrong your whole life!

"Welcome back to another episode of the epic table podcast. This is your first time. Welcome this is where we talk about human performance and how I can apply it through help. You guys use it as a resource as everyday lawsuit we had to Jason Woodland on CEO and founder of. Thera gone now. Theravada was also about his podcast. We talked about recovering. Not just from a surface level. We talked about how to improve your central nervous. And how he's divorced that how we can take simple techniques every single day to learn from it and the effects of simply improving and recovering a central web system which is really exciting because something we can do everyday speaking of something we can do. Every day we have Hutch mature and the author of the Oxygen Veg on I and on Saipan for these because talking about breathing something that we do obviously every single genuine. What's amazing is that we looked. Sorry far heads sometimes in new technologies to improve performance through oxygen and whatnot but maybe or perhaps simply just needs to move out on his radio. You snore. You have problems with you. Know the way that you asleep ing do you feel. Sometimes you not exactly getting the best breath also. These are things that we can look at and adjust every single day and today. We discussed that with Patrick. You and he's a phenomenal. Individual himself actually suffer from asthma early on and she looked at techniques that he could adjust. And then you know improving every single day loss so if you look into impressive performance wanting to simply no if you breathing correctly. I'm excited listen to on Jason. If you're one of those people would love to get a review. And he'll thoughts shown social media. Instagram tiger screen shot. And let everyone know that this is something that can all absolutely do everything that. I knew that for all things on the seat. We need oxygen Nelson Brian Wrestling. So I'm not saying any title. I Patrick McEwen author of the Oxygen Advantage Vantage Patrick Account. Welcome to the Tel podcast. Matt thanks very much on beer so if my listeners obviously patches. Yoda fantastic accent. He's in Ireland right now but through his work you know it's been exception rating up on your philosophies and how we can all so much more about one of the most natural ways to improve who we are as humans but before we go into your actual practices in the program. You've tried tonight. I'm really interested in hearing about your personal story because that's how it about right. You had problems with asthma respiration that Kinda made you want to die further into and come up with oxygen advantage. Might Patrick Play Space. Sure. Of course yeah I I suppose I was like many other people I did. The wrong degree went into the wrong occupation. Absolutely hated us but on the other side have shoes and You know after twenty years of having Asmi don't just investment I was also the in distress citing Zayed's sides and sleep patterns. Were very poor. That's kind of normal when you have a breathing pattern disorder so so I read a newspaper article on its head about to breathe through your nose which I wasn't doing. I was constantly map breathing during sleep during rest and even going for a walk and And I wasn't doing that either. I was breathing hard. I would be the guy you know you go for a jog and I the one that was like a train huffing and puffing self so as made changed my own. Houten's made a big difference to how I talked to my breathing to my sleep to my concentration and To to my mind so so that was that was. That's part of the journey begun. It's pretty simple. Isn't it some but I think what I'm so excited. Batty's I mean you've broken it down very not show I guess complex but like For people who don't realize there's actually a quote in your book that you you talk about When if you breathe in a date breath most people think that's a benefit and you'll you referred to as actually Actually you actually detrimental your ability to You know benefit from performance. Now that's to do with oxygen carbon dioxide. So I'm really the part that I love so Mike. Can you actually just go straight into the process of breath and what happens? And then we'll dive into the changes that we need to cats Performance so what happens when we I think we need to understand a law that was discovered back in nineteen. Oh four and it's called aboard a fact or an effect on it's based on a piece of physiology that you would find in pretty much any medical textbook unresponsive. Physiology is the Oxygen Hemoglobin dissociation curve but in simple terms. It's not true that oxygen is good carbon dioxide his badge we need to have a balance and when we take a breath of air into our lungs and oxygen passes into the blood most oxygen. The blood is carried by a hemoglobin molecule. Which is a protein but in the red blood cell and hemoglobin carries ninety eight percent of oxygen but for Hemoglobin to release oxygen to the tissues. It's released in the presence of carbon dioxide and increased body temperature. So if you think of a working muscle that working muscle is going to need more oxygen than muscles pitcher not working so hard on. How does the working muscle attract more oxygen? With the harder you work muscle the hotter it becomes and the more carbon dioxide the generates announced a change in body terrorists to change in the temperature of the muscle and is to change in carbon dioxide and reluctant dropped blood. Ph that causes red blood cells to release oxygen to that muscle. Now if you think of a despite on how many times have we heard the instruction take a deep wrecked and you see the individual taking this full big fresh air into their lungs while they're not necessarily increasing oxygen of taking the blood because it's already almost fully saturated and in the process. They're getting rid of widened amount of carbon dioxide from the lungs and from the blood and this is causing less oxygen to be delivered from the hemoglobin to the tissues so the harder we breed relative to what our body needs the less oxygen that gets delivered that's a very hissy putting it essentially Commodore as you said has been always looked at as the enemy puts actually gateway to allowing oxygen to be absorbed and you touch upon. That's the point like oxygen saturation. General is I it doesn't change too much looking as you said that. You quite ninety five to ninety anywhere Bob. Ninety six ninety seven ninety percent of your blood should be oxygen anything law of concerns. But you never really going to have one hundred percent because if you have one hundred percents such ration. You never having transitioned from oxygen from the blood into the muscles. The good old not to have that to happen. You talk about that. Carbon Dioxide has to increase threats. Like you have to have that Get The essentially the Dole. Why the if the Dole wise only slowly Little Bit Assira. To only oxygen gets into the blood confessed that you saw your body allows for an increase in a threshold of see it too. Which is what will happen in later. Down the track is that of the most you are able to have as a threshold. More oxygen again to block is that that's correct. That's pretty much it now. It's it's it's it's a simple as data and it's not a simpler but in terms of I suppose what we're looking to have as we're looking to home stasis and we're looking to have a normal pressure of carbon dioxide in the blood and money of stolen and it's you know it's not true that everybody would breathing pattern disorder has low carbon dioxide in blood Quite a number of people do and even if you look at some of the papers. I see the paper by a professor from one of the American universities keys and he looked at fifty one subjects and I think there were twenty seven years of age. And we're all healthy and fit people. Only five of them had normal breathing and he was looking at. How can you screen for breathing pattern disorders in sports on his conclusion? Mas Bretault time has to be above twenty five seconds and he measured the same ways to both score. And if you're Bret told. Time is above twenty five seconds. You have a native nine percent chance that dysfunctional breathing is not to present so it's relatively common dysfunctional breathing with some people they will have lower. Co Two but it comes back to the one thing that you raised the stock done. You know we often have a belief in the Western world that it's really good to be taking these Big brats like we have to turn out information of down you think of all of the studios who are teaching breathing exercises and you should never hear anybody breathing during rest in any studio if you're doing postures if you're doing any sort of work if it's doing very light physical exercise nobody should be deliberately increasing the volume of verde breed because in the process. They are reducing the oxygen delivery to to treat the body Dry because obviously do yoga at the former studios you're referring to so let's speak a little bit further to that so but by taking on a B. Breath. What actually happens at the cellular level? Can you STA young reiterate that again? Okay when you take a bigger Brett we have to bear in mind at oxygen. His car two ways in the blood ninety eight percent of discouraged bound by hemoglobin on about one and a half percent or so of oxygen is dissolved directly in the plasma. Now when we buried hard safe for instance if we were doing something like taking thirty hard brexit and drew the matter knows we won't increase oxygen uptake. Won't increase the up the blood oxygen saturation because hemoglobin is already fully saturated but we can increase little the oxygen dissolved in the plasma. But it's the process of hard breathing that we get rid of too much. Carbon dioxide from the lungs and this in turn reduces carbon dioxide in the blood and when carbon dioxide is reducing in the blood blood Ph increases and the affinity of Hemoglobin frocks Chin. Get STRONGER IN OTHER WORDS. The bond of oxygen for Red Blood Sorry the bond of red blood says for oxygen gets stronger when carbon dioxide is lower. So I suppose it comes back to you. Ident people might ask the question. Why surely when I go for a run? My breathing is going to be faster and harder. That's correct but how much faster and harder because you see a guy or a Gal with Dysfunctional breathing if you're breathing his off during rest. Your breathing is off during physical exercise and your breathing is off during sleep and foot sort of symptoms. Would you have if your breathing off during exercise gassing out too soon you know how many athletes have looked like sometimes looking. It's doing press conferences and I see faster up chest breathing into guys just sitting there as rest. You know you know straightway. It's likely this guy's going to have disproportionate. Breathlessness during physical. Exercise is going to gossip too soon. He can have muscle fatigue. And if you're not getting enough oxygen delivery to those working muscled how can we have been sure dash and it's something that seldom talk about I love it man I this is. This is sorry as a stock Such a natural thing breathing is a process. That is one of the most natural things we can help And through your studies and what you've done is incredible lund. So what what I love. Is You of flip the switch on this whole perspective? You're changing what we've been thought thinking so long it's like taking a deep breaths is something we always hear about in recovery so obviously will get into the training of oxygen advantage annual perception of what we should be doing but before we do. Let's talk about the the detriment of lack of oxygen to the body and physical performance in athletes were talk in general so numerous studies that talk about a lack of development to the Brian in young young individuals particularly adolescent age This ozzy problems with sleeping can you? Can you speak to that a bit moment? Yeah it's really more so about the effective mouth. Breathing has on sleep in terms of childhood development. There's money studies looking at the effects of sleep disordered breathing and Childhood and wit sleep disorder breathing. It's very common. That child breeds open mouths now if an adult breed soon open maturing sleep. It's likely that adult is more likely to snore. Have SLEEP APNEA AND TO WAKE UP TIRED. But for a child it's different because the child's brain is growing and carbonic she Next study in stratford-upon-avon from twenty ten. I think study went on for eight years. Looking at eleven thousand Children Day looked at the risk of special education needs of children would sleep disordered breathing. It increased by forty percent now when you bear in mind. The number of children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and and would under conditions. You know we really have to wonder. What's the role of sleep? And this and for me think of sleep we have to think of Airway. A nasal breathing is obsolete crucial. And this is not new information. This has been known there was journal back. Nineteen O nine clouds dental cosmos. And I read it you know. Use It on my own my own talks and when you look at what was written back over one hundred years ago that the faces. Dolan expressionless child loses attention. The teachers accusing the child of daydreaming and the child is at Waking Up. A headache is doesn't have concentration. And all of these these things. We see in children's Day on very few healthcare professions talking about the importance of nasal breathing in childhood. Except the top sleep doctrine. The roads just before he passed on the Guy Club doctor Christian gaming up from Stanford Medical School and he spoke about the critical importance of restoring nasal breathing for children both during wakefulness on during sleep. And he went on to say you know. I've seen them in conferences. And I was talking alongside amount. I've seen him stand up and he would say to. The doctors present would allergy respect. He said you're talking about everything except about the importance of restoring nasal breathing during sleep and I would go as fire saying. I don't think you have a good night sleep unless you break your nose now. Dot has a huge white. You know costing there because you think of anybody in terms of performance. How can you be at the top of your game whether you're in school whether you're at university whether you're in sports unless you have the energy and the concentration to focus on what you're doing and I remember going in secondary school or high school? My concentration was dreadful. I'd be looking at the page but my attention wasn't on the page I wasn't you know learning the material. That was fun to me because my attention was totally stuck in my head in a constant state of that brain fog. And you know we're measuring children's academic performance and so-called intelligence primarily from an academic point of view. But how many people is asking the question Howard these kids sleeping and Howard. These kids breathing and of course. It's not just about the kids. We have to consider adults here as well. My son important. You know. I think if it's like a sokoll breathing and sleep on again natural natural things that we go through and I have a very important purpose. Breathing's obvious sleeping is obvious in principle but at a at a a real we'd level. I guess if he cited the wider we're able to recove- by memory stole memory to develop to learn to. You know make really care. Decisions is is so critical And definitely directed and without debt proven we affect on sleep. And so you know when upbraiding to generate enough ability to get into Rambo slow I sleep and that that's an issue in itself so you talked about Nizwa breathing. What is the difference and we talk about the effect on neurotransmitters in the brain by breeding free annoys versus you email. I think it's more likely I think it's more like the the effect the building is having causing sleep fragmentation. That's when we breach an open mouth. We tend to breed. Tend to have lighter sleep and the other thing with with the architecture of the Airway can change. There's a number of things that can happen with my breathing during sleep you know in terms of the architecture of the airway that the tongue is more likely to fall into the throat. The map rating is causing a drawing edge of the Upper Airway can lead to inflammation if destroy the operate mouth. Breathing also was leading to fast shallow breathing. Using the upper chest. Disinterring reduces lung volume and as a result the upper airways more liable to collapse during sleep. So it a condition called obstructive sleep apnea which is relatively common for example in. Mayo's it's more common than females but it affects between men between the ages of thirty and forty nine by twenty six percent of men and from the age of fifty to seventy effects about forty three percent of males and females. It's about nine percent of females aged between thirty and forty nine years of age on from. It's about twenty seven percent from fifty to seventy years of age so with triplets with females. When they go through menopause but I do think it's too steep fragmentation like other aspects of it. Is You know if somebody's waking up dry match in the morning okay. They feel that jab the They're not as rested as they should be But also that may need to get hope to go to the bathroom more frequently and if you have to get up to go to the bathroom during during the night you are having sleep fragmentation. So I think that's the impact. I think that we don't get down to the deep deep sleep. And if we are in deep sleep or constantly getting aroused from so and obstructive CPAP is a really dreadful condition in terms of the stress puts on the heart and it's linked with money other conditions including dementia. In Oh so it's a very common condition very much so that it's going to be increased risk of With people who asked breed we do need are closed. We need our tongue resting in the roof of the out. Because you know you watch your tongue resting in the rift the Matt so that. Your Tong is less likely to approach the airway and sleep. Medicine has changed. In a number of ways the last five years with the recognition that there are four funeral types of sleep apnea. It's not just an anatomical issue. The Airway offender snoring and sleep apnea but there are three non anatomic factors and we have to consider the airway from the point of view of an engineer. No engineer more. Their salt will just look at a pipe without looking at flow but when sleep is being considered generally it's only the pipe that's being considered and its Nash. The amount of air that you're breathing through ish but if you're breathing fast and shallow. There's an increased turbulence in the Upper Airway and this is more likely to cause collapse into arousal from sleep and I often say to Miss Jones. Make the sound of a snore. You know anybody can make the sound of snow during break from this. What you do you tighten up your airway and you breathe harder. So if it's true the Magyar kind of go like this. If it's true the knows you'll go like this. So there's a different sounder to make that sound you typically breed faster and harder. Now if you were really to slow down your breathing determinants in the upper airways less and snoring and obstructive sleep apnea is less. It's not just about the size of the airway. It's also a bad flow. Just make one more point before forgotten. Children who undergo tonsilectomy annoyed ECTOMY. If nasal breathing is not restored. There is a sixty five percent worse. There's a sixty five percent risk of worsening in what's called their apnea hype up the index within three years so money tousands of children are having operations to improve their sleep. They have their tonsils removed. They have their adenoids removed. But there is very little follow for these kids in terms of restoring these breathing you cannot just remove the obstruction of the nose. You also need to change the behavior and the pattern of breathing and you know I as another tied an operation on my nose in nineteen ninety four and I spoke with one hundred and fifty year knows intro doctors last year in Madrid and I to the doctors I explained that did a wonderful job fixing my nose but they never taught me how to breathe through my nose and I think some of them are smiling. There may be some gutted. Maybe some didn't get it. We kind of just fixed the obstruction. We do have to change the Habash. And that's a thing that we all know. Data explains in some way a capacity. Where is the per person sleeping next to us or does Some might for the definitely looking forward to talking about the program you set in but is it just for those who've probably realized that the breeding Being painted by Zahir no sounds. Should I be alarmed? Should I be concerned as to you know the severity unlike? I just want people to realize dogs. The Evan is somebody of form has experienced some sort of snoring. And whether you never done it yourself. Economy is slowly necessarily. But you working in someone's told you now is it. Always the case at snoring is a result of a lack of Control braving And if saw she way be pretty concerned about it. As human development continues even as as our human development continues to human race. You one could argue that the size of the airway is getting smaller that the facial structures changing and as the airway gets smaller. It is going to increase resistance to breathing. But you know what's causing resistance are turbulence in the Upper Airway? Open I talk about the upper airway on talking about the nays. The nasal cavity denies a firing switches. Bird meets Detroit. The aura firing system out meets Detroit. We have to consider both the size of the airway diameter amish as well as the flow of breathing now which children. No child should snore. A child who has sleep disordered breathing that includes snoring to have ten times the risk of of learning difficulties. So you know if you look at the amount of kids with. Add adhd and. They're often put on Ritalin. And has that really dissolution when reading it could be their sleep. Is the big problem here. And there. A number of wonder Florida dentists in the United States. Who recognize this recognized this entre throat and address book coming out by Journalists Coach James? Nestor it's due out in. May actually be dismount and the book is called Brett and James. Nestor is a journalist. Who has invested breathing for the last four years? And I was looking just Penguin semi on kind of a preview copy of vision. And I read ish and it's really touching on the stuff that we touched on the oxygen advantage. Bokan delight to see it because James. Nestor doesn't have a vested point of view. You know he's a journalist. He's not writing about like one could argue that. I'm working in this field and hence I want to get the information out there but when you see a journalist going on. He interviewed a lot of individuals. Dr William Hang from from California. He interviewed Dr Michael Gallup Mariana Evans Pam Dr. John and he went flew to different countries interview. These people and we really have something. That's going on the shape of the human faces changing the airways changing and some of it is coming down to food. You know in terms of going from switching from traditional foods over to what we are now consuming process diets and also lack of chewing lack of breastfeeding lack of awareness of tongue tied lack of awareness of mouth breathing the effects of ash and there is also another aspect in terms of the connection between food and sleep. Because if you're constantly having disruptions to your sleep what happens is there's two hormones affected one is grin and dealers. Leptin and granted stimulates appetite and Leptin suppresses appetite. But if you have if you have constant disruptions to your sleep you will tend to wake up and be hungry during the day as a result to eat more and as you eat more you put on more Waesche. You put more weight on the tongue. More ways on Detroit's more wages the belly and as you put on more wage you have increased the sleep up the so there's always a connection between obesity and obstructive sleep apnea and. It's another vicious circle so we should be looking at you know in terms of the four functions of the Human Body. We're talking about we'RE TALKING ABOUT SLEEP. We're talking about nutrition and we're also talking about emotions of the mind because I like to bring in this. You know we see people who remember depression anxiety and when you start investigating their sleep that often tell you that they're wake up feeling exhausted and then if I asked him well. Has Anybody ever referred you to do a sleep study to check out do you have obstructive sleep apnea dancers often? No and I think it's the reason being is because all too often we consider the person with depression. They're exhausted because of their depression. But maybe it is the exhaustion that is causing the depression. You know the human body is to interwoven just to money. Connections Darren bidirectional relationships between one function on another and in medicine. Every function has been isolated. But you can't do that. The human body because every function is intertwined. You'll have to look at the big picture and that's exactly it. It's almost like the ground. Zero of problems is somewhat other. You could definitely argue is breathing. Ron. Because that's that's the start of it and if you have breathing correctly you not going to rot and it becomes ambitious. Sokoll is you told just exponentially escalating the answer. There's a number of significant studies that like Utah. Those whole minds of that. Same ground that just a couple of things But very dude specific indicators of of hundreds of things are implied that if you draw slave we'd have prayed correctly Put up body into many of problems. Such as potential can't saw a metabolic syndrome diabetes Alzheimer's all those kinds of things he tossed on The The the the things wants to meet him Oxygen Saturation. I absorption. So it's all well to have a Alex as we said Alison Saturation Doesn't change too much so the importance of is actually. How much muscles absorbs isn't that? How much oxygen yesterday have in terms of your hemoglobin separate assets ratio? It's more a case of how much body absorbs tossed upon not Can you just I like. This is actually more for the him before. Side of athletes So what happens the oxygen during our workouts and wondering what's it removing while what I would say is if I was working. Madani alita are recreational athletes? I would always tell them to do something recreation. I I say for recreational athlete. You should do all of your physical exercise. But you're Mike closed on here. Here's the reason being. It's tougher at the start for the first six to eight weeks and the reason being is because you are breathing. Truest smarter entry and as a result. You know your nostrils are smaller than your mouth. And it's forcing you to do physical exercise. You know which are mark closed that you're exposing the body to an increased air hunger now. An increased air hunger. During physical exercise is due to the increased carbon dioxide in the blood and if you continuously exposure body says increased air hunger air hunger diminishes over time so what it means is Dan for a given level of physical exercise? You don't need as much breathing. So there's an economic saving there because it it does this there is cost associated with moving your breathing muscles. You know if you if you're arresting where about two to three percent of our video too is going to support the breathing muscles and if we go for walk about maybe five percent six percent if we do fairly intense physical exercise is probably about ten percent and if we do maximum physical exercise it's about thirteen to fifteen percent but if we do have a breathing pattern disorder it increases dash and for individuals who were during the hyperventilation provocation test. That's when they really breathed deliberately hard for thirty seconds to three minutes the oxygen consumption to support their breathing muscles increase to thirty percent. So does all about breathing. Efficiency NUMBER ONE IS. How do you teach in athletes to do more with less the next load on them? So for the recreational athlete I would say do everything which closed yet. It's tougher but keep doing ish and then it gets easy and that's when you start you know you're breathing lighter forgiven intensity of exercise for the elite athletes. I would say do fifty percent of your training which are closed. Why because it adds an extra load onto you and again. It's the same reasons and I say to a fifty percent which are mouth open so that you don't have muscle deconditioning because initially when you do trauma to nose breathing you're not going to have the same intensity because you're feeling that restriction drew to the air hunger but that's that's up -tations of the body and nose breathing allows you to take the air deeper into the lungs and the greatest concentration of blood is in the low regions of the lungs so nose breathing also increase the oxygen taking the blood. Now I know I already said that. You can't increase the blood oxygen saturation by by increasing your breathing but you can increase the Buxton saturation by switching to nasal breathing. Now it might be one or two percent but at the same time when you're doing a physical exercise but breathing through your nose. The carbon dioxide and blood is is higher and wit sustained physical exercise with nasal breathing. You can tolerate a higher and pressure of carbon dioxide in the blood. I'm Wa- discipline allow more to released from the red blood cells to tissues so if you if you look at the work the professor George Dahlem. Da L. A. And Dan. This is so understudied that there're very few papers in the words investigating the benefits of nasal breathing versus mouth breathing or any difference between the two but he is looked at it and one paper that was published in twenty ten recreational athletes. He got some breathing through their nose for six months. During physical exercise he done tests dumb after six months. When the physical adaptations had taken pace they were able to achieve one hundred percent of their work regime. Ten St on the graded exercise test with nasal breathing versus moat. But with twenty. Two percent less ventilation so twenty. Two percent less less breathing and an increased carbon dioxide in the blood forty four millimeters of mercury versus forty which in turn led to a reduction in the fraction of expired oxygen so D- individuals breathing through the nose that I had a better oxygen taking the bud but they had a better oxygen delivery to the tissues. Now if you look at a few other studies that were published back thirty years ago by Dr John Doe Yard looking at the brainwave states in nasal breathing versus map breathing. Nasal BREEDERS ENTERED FLOW. Stace not breathing mouth breathing trouser. Evolution is associated with fight or flight. Our ancestors didn't Jews their mouths debris during physical exercise look at the research of neanderthals two years ago researchers found the undertows toilets had these really wide nostrils to allow the conditioning of a large volume of air. Trudeau knows not just during rest but also during physical exercise we we have lost the art of breathing and we have lost the art of breathing. Only relatively recently now. I know some people will say well. Dr Western price book wasn't very scientific or etc. It was really an observation and it was using the best available science at that time published back in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight and he'd locked. Ash. The craniofacial changes of individuals. Spend a switch from traditional died over to a process dies first generation. Children became operators. These children had deformed dental actress data overcrowding of teat dead higher per pilots and they didn't have good airway. And you know you have to consider if you want to be developed not leash you need a good airway so breathing. Efficiency is one thing but human development is another thing yet. You touched upon sympathetic and the passive pathetic death so miss you so just to reiterate you signed it. Used to be dominant through the past sympathetic. And now it's through the sympathetic because of the fact that why that we've changed out. I Guess Breeding Patterns Zach when I suppose you know we always want to kind of have an optimal. You want to have a balanced between the power sympathetic and sympathetic. Because we want to be resilient we want to be able to adopt whatever. Environmental changes are whatever comes our way but I would say to mouth breeders a definitely more stuck in that sympathetic tone Lauren. That fight or flight response more agitated education of the mind if you think of. How do we breed when we get stressed well? We breed fast and shallow. How does a map reader breed fast and shallow because your nose imposes resistance to your breathing? That's two to three times out of the moat and by slowing down your breathing. This helps to calm the mind. So again twenty seventeen Stanford medical school if you were to Google Stanford Medical School and slow breathing. They identified a new structure. In the brain the locus corollas and they said that the primary purpose of this structure is despite on your breathing. So when you really slow down your breathing destructure will determine that you are slowing down your Brett and destruction would relay signals of come to the rest of the brain but Mao printers. Don't have slow breathing. I wasn't a slow breeder when I was a map reader because you have no resistance to your breathing during wakefulness and also mapping always activating the upper chest and our diet from breathing muscle is not just for expiration. You know even if you were to look at it from the point of view functional movement. Can you have functional movement unless you have functional breathing? Is it just a coincidence? That ninety percent of people who have good functional movement also have good functional breathing and if breathing is normalized movement is normalized and movement is normalized. You're more risk of injury however there's also connection between die from and the mind so if you're breathing using the die from just breathing low breathing lash reading slow breathing deep and use an acronym. Lsd So people remember so light is about the biochemistry of breathing. Slow is about bringing a cadence of breathing more specifically practices between five point. Five to six bits per minute and that's to stimulate the vagus nerve to increased heart rate for your buzzer improve. Response resigned Arrhythmia stimulate. What's called borrow receptors or pressure receptors? But basically slow breathing to restored by these systems which are disturbed by stress. And then we look at depressing which is targeting the bio mechanics and the problem with breathing. Donnas that people are all in their own little silos and I was in my silo to whip you take. Oh as my background. I looked primarily at the biochemistry. It's not enough so the oxygen advantage is very much bio chemically focused. But the next book is going to be different. That's one currency rising. I'm GONNA broad broad Nash in terms of looking at functional breathing from three dimensions the biochemistry the cadence of the Brett the by mechanics and true the Brett when you really break down. What's going on there? I think it's amazing. I think I'm only scratching the surface here. Have the more I go down this rabbit hole. I'm twenty years down this rabbit hole and the more. I'm down there that the less realized I do know it's incredible and I'm sitting here. I'm writing notes. I'm Jay rotting notes as you. It just from personal development is a renowned always paypal you reference Essentially what you you with Athlete's the ability to do more with less. And we've seen that in hot consistently with allergy training. I believe you referenced. The first this was not in sixty eight Mexico impacts pictures that right. Yeah it it it was. I really when kind of you know. Strength and conditioning coach is on coach. Started wondering how are the athletes that were performing up? There now didn't do very well. You know at altitude but it was fun to come back down to sea level to started surpassing their personal best on. Dong drew the question. That was just something in this. In terms of altitude training so attitude training would be when did spends a period of time. Maybe a couple of weeks at an altitude of maybe two thousand meters terabytes and an order to expose the body hypotheses for the body to make adaptations including increase red blood cells For example the hormonal rich reporting or EPO. Epo when the body is put into a HYPOC STACE. The kidneys understood that liver to a lesser extent. Synthesized this hormone and a richer appointee in repeal. It's goes as a maturation of the red blood cells in the bone marrow. So by increasing red blood cells increases your oxygen carrying capacity and that in turn increases your view to Max now we do Brett toiling and we deliberately put the body into a high poxy state. But it's intermittent and it's not just that we're dropping blood oxygen saturation. But we're also increasing carbon dioxide. So what we would be doing is doing intermittent type pox ick high per capita training. And I think the biggest effect of what we're doing is instead it's disturbing the acid base balance that were increasing hygiene in the blood and were deliberately putting the body into a state of acidosis to force the body to improve buffering capacity which is probably happening inside in the muscle but this intern then can delay lactic acid fatigue. So if you think about the two are doing high intensity and for training to stimulate ANAEROBIC glycolysis. Well if you're wearing a potok similar which is a little device that you wear in your finger you know. And it's got a red light and infrared lightness and it tells you of all your hemoglobin. How much of it is occupied by oxygen? If you do high intensity interval training with your mouth open your blood oxygen saturation. Were drop down to about ninety three percent. If you do it with your Mac closed your blood oxygen saturation. Were dropped down to about ninety one percent. You are hardly high poxy at that point so what we do. Is We do jogging. Do running leaders sprinting. Brett tolling on an explanation and were dropping the oxygen saturation severe hypoxia. But we're also at the same time increasing carbon dioxide because the drop to bid oxygen saturation hydrogen coming from the tissue. Doesn't get oxidized. It associates Peru Vic. Acid form lactic acids and disinterred dissociates into hydrogen than lactation but the carbon dioxide is well on the other hand we are increasing Dash. So we're getting a hydrogen ion from the carbon dioxide affect and hydrogen from the oxygen effect. And what that's doing is basically you know. We're stressing the body but we're doing it but in limits you know I don't want to. I don't like Oxygen Saturation drops down below seventy percent. I don't want people getting disoriented. I certainly don't want people passing out and people can pass out if your blood oxygen saturation drops down to below sixty percent. And I don't think there's a need to force body to make those adaptations and you know. I could talk about a paper that was published in twenty eighteen by a researcher called. Warren's W O or s and he got twenty one at least rugby union athletes disappear during peak season. I think they were in the early. Twenty S ANAHEIM. Him Do the same exercise we do. Forty meter sprints after an explanation for four weeks and a control group are just doing their forty meter spent but normal breathing. The repeated sprint Abbasi in the group that was doing breadth holding on the explanation. That repeated spent about increased from nine to fourteen point. Eight for weeks now. This is what a leash professional rugby union players. If you if you get a one percent improvement would elite athletes. It's it's massive. But to increase repeated spent buzzy from nine to fourteen point Asian Edwards. The athletes could do fourteen point. Age repeated sprints forty meters with thirty seconds the departure every thirty seconds before exhaustion to increase dash from from nine to fourteen pages a huge improvement the control group who was doing high intensity interval training marginal change come up from nine to maybe ten that was you know so. I think I think by making simple adaptations to an existing training regime. One can be clever about this. I'm breathing has not been tapped into because normally I think people thought was it was a bunch of hippies. Are you know these guys with the open standards going around with lung hair hugging trees and things like that? We have to bear in mind. There's more to it than breathing. Just taking a depresed. Batmans he's accurate that's repeated sprint. Ability is huge particularly in the tame spoiled while owner tasteful and a lot of the functional and the hard time sports because the ability to perform at your best and doing over and over again give in a given time is huge so just to kind of like some paper help. Works is your body at intensity training working an aerobically and then what you WanNa do is obviously have the ability to not have your laptop The ballpark that Incense Your Hotter Don's elevate so much to the way your body to not remove them you want your ability to remove on the Hodgin to be better than to -bility to produce and that way you're able to continually continually sprint repeatedly. Oh performance high intensity along now by doing what? They saw this technique that we're about to dive into and learning to breathe through your nose or even just learning to be more efficient with oxygen by doing more with less you your ability to actually Delight that onsite of continuous boot up improves And so that's exciting for people in the sporting world because it means you can improve your performance without having to do anything to technical other than just lanes of three. Which is a really exciting. So Patrick night is where I'm really excited jumping to some of the procedures that you you know you talk about. So let's let's stop striding through the ball test. I know it's a thing we do in the very thing we do in the morning so like what is. What is the ball test? The blood test is as soon as you wake up in the morning. Sit Up in the bed and just allow your breathing to recover for a minute or two identical number breath in through your nose and time in seconds until you feel the first definite breed our first involuntary contractions of your breathing muscles. And when you let go your breathing should be fairly normal. So it's a measurement of the first physiological response or the reaction of the brain to tell you to resume breathing so if you can imagine it despite when you exhale Andrew. Stop breathing during that time. Carbon Dioxide is going to increase in the blood drops and Madala. The brain reacts to that by sending an impulse to breathe at some point. So you're measuring. How long does it take for the brain to react just sandy and post to braids now? It's generally regarded? That test is generally regarded as a measure of the Chemo of your body to Carbon Dioxide. And it's also measure of breathlessness so the session and deer insurance of breathlessness. So why would the chemo? Sensitivity of your body to carbon dioxide important while well trained athletes and elite athletes typically have a reduced ventilator response to carbon dioxide in other words they can tolerate a high buildup of carbon dioxide in the blood. But we want to do is win. Athletes be want to measure you know. We want to get some indicator of how senses of our day to build to the buildup of carbon dioxide. Because if an athlete is overly sensitive to carbon dioxide buildup will mean that they will have disproportionate breakfasts and I know. Strength and conditioning coaches may put that down to lack of condition but that athletes may be training hard but as their training hard. They are breathing. Hard and training does not change breathing patterns. Because it's your everyday breathing. That dictates how you breathe during your physical training like if you have an it. That's every now and again having the Matt Opener. During Hay fever season you know because there's pollen their nose stuffy than they are breathing through them out and they sleep at the match openness night. All that's going to impact Dr Degree of breakfast and during physical training so I'm not concerned but of course I'm concerned. But how is the Guy Sitting in front me? How is he breathing? But I'm even more concerned with. How is he breathing when he leaves me? How does he breathed when he goes into the we? Go TO SLEEP. Produce Training etc. So that's one test we use the boat and then we also use what's called the maximum breathlessness test now. This test wouldn't be so but if the fee matters pregnant or if anybody is any serious medical conditions including cardiovascular issues but we also want to measure what's the oprah limits of tolerance of breathlessness and for this we take you know you arresting. Don't do much physical movements but have you know you're arresting first of all and then you take a norm breath in through your nose. Hold your nose and start walking and counter money paces. Can you hold your breath for until you're really bursting for Brett? So this is a maximum and the goal is that the bow score is forty seconds and the maximum breathlessness test is eighty to a hundred paces. And that's what we want. Now you'll be surprised of. Seeing the Olympic athletes would bow scores of twelve and fifteen seconds android maximum breathlessness test of twenty and thirty paces. That really needs to improve and but it improves. It's a sign. That breathing is becoming more efficient. That's something we can do. It has an and to be clear. You make very star of oxygen advantage. There are some people that should be very careful. When applying some of these brain techniques can use to make it clear hoods those people Before we proceed yes of course like the one aspect functional breathing is generally find for for vast majority of people breathing through your nose Jesse slowing your breathing with lateral expansion contraction of the lower ribs. That's all good and if the female is pregnant I don't teach them breathing exercises because I don't want change their environment and I don't want to change the oxygen that's delivered to the fetus or changed her immune system. I'm we can changed. Immune system true the Brett now with people with the likes of high blood pressure different cardiovascular conditions they can get a lot of beneficial from doing slow breathing especially to a cadence of six. Brett's permission because it stimulates pressure receptors in the major blood vessels to make the more sensitive to help the autonomic nervous system. The recovery are to improve the functioning of the A. N. S. now Brett. Tolling is a different ballgame. Retorting is a stressor. That's fine we don't first of all we don't do hyperventilation before Brett tolling. We just normal breathing but we have. The individual breathe normally entered our nose out. Trudeau knows holder knows and one of the the exercise that we will do that. You know you have to breathe. Introducer knows Start Walking with their match closed holding their nose. Walk Faster go into jog jog faster. Gwent were run Guintaras sprint. So as the air hunger gets stronger go faster and then at the end let go but minimum breathing for six Brett's and have a semi active recovery just general walking minimum breathing for six Braxton normal breathing for tweeting Brett's and then repeated and repeated five times. I we do that to stress the body but that's only suitable for relatively fish has the individuals you know. It's not suitable for as pregnancy any serious medical conditions. Never do strong breath holes. Sometimes if I'm working with Asthma Yup I can push paper but asthma but I know where to push them and but I've made mistakes over the past I've seen people have put them into full blown panic attacks and I've done that I've done a a few times So I've learned to lash by teaching these exercises and sometimes people would be teaching breathing exercises and they kind of used the same breathing exercises for everybody. You can't you can't do that like if you're doing functional breathing generally that's fairly okay because there's minimal risk but if have somebody who is predisposed panic disorder for example and if you have do a strong bret told that fear of suffocation will will drive into such a fight or flight response that you know a mentally. They will think that they are going to die now. There's probably you know they're fine but they don't think that way because we often have suffocation is often the symptom of different conditions. The feeling of suffocation happens during an asthma attack. It happens during a panic attack. It happens during anxiety so we deliberately Dan Potter individual into a feeling of suffocation with their body doesn't know whether this is read are Nash. And their body would perceive that as a trash so there is a way to Jewish underway. Not to do it but I think for for for you know for healthy individuals. It's a great way to stress the body a little bit and to do it to the point that you know it's not causing damage. We never want dash but to give a few examples. Dan What happens when you do a breadth. Holt while you can open up your nose you can open up your your airways. Am You increase oxygen? You increase blood flow to the brain because when you do a Bret told. Yes your blood. Oxygen Saturation is dropping. But at the same time. Carbon Dioxide in the blood is increasing. I'm this carbon dioxide. Do but it dilates blood vessels and causes oxygen delivery to be increased to the brain so for example. If I'm having athletes do a warm up I want them to do their warm up. Fifteen twenty minutes all with nasal breathing and we start off with lateral expansion contraction of low rips to help cam the mind. But into their warm-up I will have them do five strong battles because I want to put them into that stress stage. I want to activate the sympathetic effect. I want to increase blood flow to the brain. I want to make them highly focused on alert and I want their spleen to attract to released red blood cells into circulation prior to doing physical exercise. I want our nose to be open. I want the Airways to be open. And I also want increased oxygen delivery to the working muscles prior to the exercise and again little secrets but the only reason I'm saying their secret that being around for a hundred years I'm but nobody Simpson about them and that's you touch very good point across the spectrum of things that we can do this on just the athletes but it's everyday individuals because ultimately As we touched on earlier if you getting oxygen to the body's the muscles into the Brian in an efficient manner you performing better and that's not just physically cognitively as well brilliant breakdown complex issues your ability to Make decisions Stole Memory laserlike focused at all these kind of things? It is required and dialogue prostate performance job with our families. Everything like that. So this is as the obvious. Obviously a physical performances. There's so many things that help Will that rely on the correct form of Braiding Patrick do Do you have any other techniques you WanNa talk upon that you highlighting Advantage might any anything that the papal right now. Other than the bolt test and some of those other things that We could simply administer. I think it would be a good practice for people to put it into practice in to see. Sometimes people will say well you know why is why do us bite? You say to breed lasts. Everybody else is telling me to read more say okay. Practice practice breeding less. Sit Down in a nice comfortable chair. Put one hand in your chest and one hand just above your navel and Choon into your breathing pattern and especially feel the airflow coming in and out of your nose and as you're feeling the airflow coming into your nose gently slow down the speed of the breath as it enters your nostrils and when the breadth is leaving the body have a very slow and relaxed and prolonged desolation. So then when you need to be again you think. Very soft and slow gender thin deliberately. Slow down your breathing to the point that you feel less air coming into your nose almost that you are hardly breathing at all and when you slow down the speed of the breath in and when you have a very relaxed and slow gentle breath out you will you will feel or you should fail an air hunger so try to breathe slowly for three to four minutes with our hunger and then check. Are you feeling drowsy is drew changes live in the moat? And can you increase the temperature of your fingers internally? Not just because they're against your body but you could even just have your your hands on your lap. Are Your hands on the armchair for example said are not touching you but if you reduce your breathing you improve the temperature of your hands. Code hands are often very common with people who over break on tells you that harder you breed your blood. Vessels are constricting and I think most people will notice money. People will have experienced at some point in their life. They got into a state of little bit of anxiety. They started breathing harder and they felt lightheaded and dizzy. Why would you feel lightheaded and dizzy from breathing harder? Threes and being was because there was a reduction of blood Brand it wasn't an increased oxygen delivery to the brain increase stocks delivery. Brian doesn't make your lightheaded. But when drizzle reduction to blood flow and oxygen delivery brand lightheadedness can be a symptom so I would say for pupil to practices. And I'd also say don you touched on the whole aspect of mental health. We find me go through education. We are taught how to think how to break information into tiny pieces how to analyze how to decipher how to reason. We are trained. How to think the mind is trained into the superb analytic tool. We are trained. How to think? But WE ARE NOT TRAINED. How to stop thinking and the mind is ever distracted. Social media would emails with text messaging. And I think there's really a state of education of the mind and especially with the youngsters coming up here you know. All of these tools are training the brain to be distracted on. If your brain is distracted. You can't concentrate but you also are stressed more. You worry more and drawing Shis. So I'd say tiny buddy focus on your breath because you're taking your attention out of the mind onto your breathing you car your Brett which you all of the time and of course you know at the mind wanders bring your attention back onto the Brett. The mind wanders. Bring your attention back onto the Brett. Don't set a goal that your task is to get a quiet mind but genty keep bringing your attention back onto your breathing. Slow down your breathing. So from a psychological point of view from physiological point of view you have to bring a stillness to the mind one of the best things. If I was asked to choice I went to a university in Dublin Trinity College Dublin. A hat to work very very hard to get in there and I got my master's degree in there and if anybody gave me a choice your masters degree over the ability to bring a stillness to the mind I would choose any day of the week the ability to bring a stillness to the mind because the human mind is that instrument through which we perceive all of our life's experiences but Yash we never asked question. How DOES MY MIND WORK? That is powerful. That is so powerful. It's cool to hear that you would y your your stills the MoD above anything. That's that's crazy man. That's Awesome I. It makes complete sense to be to be real as well Might I'm conscious of on and there's a thousand will questions I have so we'll have to have to get back on the next time. I'll be with you and Kirk for you. Always always deal with the title podcast Of what we're Talk Matt to the food but before we go few quickfire round of questions and we'll just begin with what is what is Patrick. Morning retainment what are you? What are you doing the morning? I typically like morning for me is a great time trying to finish a now at the moment so typically very early I can start at maybe four five five o'clock in the morning. I'm very limited time and I find us a tremendous way. I can concentrate on at the same time. It's almost that you're stealing time. But you're standing quality time so that's what I do in the morning and have a coffee. I live very rarely in the middle of nowhere. Total silence total darkness and of course at four o'clock in the morning five o'clock in the morning there some light coming in by. Yup. That's how I start my day. That's awesome How how do you control the controllable mate? I use the example of whenever I want to go somewhere. That's I don't know there's going to be activity presence. I take my gym shoes to make sure the gym. All if I know that Maybe going to be eating a table meal on a Sunday on Saturday. So how does how does Patrick? Control the controllable. It's a good question I traveled a lash. And sometimes it's not possible to control the control. I you know what? Sometimes I'm you know I wouldn't say got a good degree of discipline but then there's times that I lack of us and I have to sing about life in that. I want to enjoy it as well so you know. I'm not leash but what I do is I always make sure that I get in some physical exercise day. Typically in our nine and a half more brisk walk could be light jog but typically more walking in the country environment and I can do that anywhere even if I don't have the right shoes with me you know. I love to have a balance. And that's really what I wanted. I never wanted to feel stressed over. The that. Need the rush to to make money. We often see it in our life around us. I think there's a lot of stress out there. A lot of anxiety and society is but a lot of stress in individuals and this may be is what the breadth can do that. It helps you to bring some kind of focus on. May maybe that we are more likely to make the right decisions than Nash. Instead of just getting swept along with the current of what society wants absolately reminds. You say that yeah like you know being just kind of like setting up and doing way. Want exactly might. What's this is my favorite. So if you were fruit. A food meal earning gradient. What would you be in? Why Guinness over? What do you think that works for me? I don't know that's That's what would I be and why I like Avocados. Debbie might real thing usually about one or two a day and so that's the only thing that comes to mind. Of course. I love a bear Guinness. That works for me to Richmond. Doesn't you know I mean that's maybe that's my fall down. Who knows might well? Apricot have a great story with Brady through the skin and I was saying with Guinness. You need lofty the beast. It's a fantastic way to go of. Dum Dum thanks thank you. I'm working on Might Song on on just four listeners. I'm a massive fan of the oxygen advantage this book and so I've definitely if you you're interested in a really simple modality or training thing that you guys can older just that it doesn't take any purchase other than obviously yet in the book itself a highly recommend picking up oxygen advantage and you can pick it up wherever you pick books online and all and Patrick has done a very good job of summating everything. That's scientific inroad into a wide. We can relate to familial level the sporty references. Because that's just how I that's how I operate but might so you've hinted at a second book is let's when when are we expecting that might get you back on the podcast? When that wants relations. Well that's a good question. This book is Israeli. A little bit different in terms of it's very much a focus on health. We're talking about sleep. Dentistry females really that has been overlooked in terms of breathing. But the female body in terms of changes of hormones can have a huge impact and breathing diabetes type on In terms of improving control of Diabetes Epilepsy Functional Movement. Back pain pain so I've kind of looked at putting together a lot of research in terms of topics and breathing. That weren't covered here today. And so you have like the oxygen advantage I had written and then my book agents said that you have to rewrite the whole thing again. This guy says I need you to write this focus. If you're talking to the Fella down the pub I've written about eighty thousand words and I'm not quite sure if it's if I'm talking down the pumps up near to approach book Asian Ascend on the manuscript to him. But you know what would see? I love to see it out in six months to year. That's when I see it. I was looking for that matter. That's that's exactly the of what? I've always interested in as well so go is. Obviously if you're interested in saying what's Patrick's Batman where can we find you? The best point of Reference Oxygen Advantage Dot Com is the best and we're on social media even though I hate the stuff but went on us because we need to get information out there as well so we're on instagram. Got some videos on Youtube. Good free content there as well to get us out of fantastic us. O obviously Vegan is and if you need more information let me know always a fan of the three things alerts and podcast today in. I'm already reading. Winds will do as I continue to book. I'm just GonNa leave you with these guys. So you imagine the fact that you performing what you have been at this point in time and you probably save it to base somewhat a high regard but now often listeners joss you potentially have sun with more in general potential to shave side and all you have to do his brief to simple as that said Patrick. Thank you so much for joining us today Enjoy the rest died in Ireland will be in touch. Might a yeah love. Love everything you do. Thank you so much. Great Time loved the love. The trash thanks very much.

sleep disordered breathing Brett mouth breathing physical exercise nose breathing Upper Airway Matt Opener APNEA asthma Brian Wrestling Detroit Mike Patrick Instagram Trudeau Nash Jason Woodland Patrick McEwen
Target CEO; Apple & Trump in Texas

Squawk Pod

35:24 min | 9 months ago

Target CEO; Apple & Trump in Texas

"Problems it's human nature to hate problems. But why is that after all problems inspire us to mend things. Ben Things make things things better. That's why so many people work with IBM on everything from city. Traffic to ocean plastic new schools to new energy flight delays delays to food safety smart loves problems. Ibm Let's put smart to work. Visit IBKR DOT com slash smart to learn more bringing Shockley. This is squawk pod the daily podcast brought to the team behind squawk box. Control the route. CNBC's essential morning show every day. Get the best stories. Debate and analysis from the biggest names in business and politics are doing that today on on Squawk Pot Apple. CEO Tim Cook and President. Donald Trump find common ground in Texas but Andrew and Joe Not so much there. So you now. Now you were saying on either side. I may social commentator thirty five days left in the twenty nineteen shopping season and target. CEO Bryan in Cornell has a feeling. We're all on the nice list. All the indicators right now would say this is GonNa be a very solid holiday season. Stanford's Medical Dean is betting on tech to cure a lot of healthcare's problems. The hardest thing to change I do think technology has a role and I think we're seeing the effects of technology I'm CNBC producer. Sir Cameron Kosta. It's Wednesday November twentieth. Squad begins right now then ended by three to one lander. Good Morning. Welcome the SQUAWK DOC box right here on. CNBC we have at the Nasdaq market site in Times Square inch Ross. Sorkin along with your current becky quick is going to be joining us in just a little bit. The first story on today's podcast the counter-intuitive relationship between apple CEO. Tim Cook and president. DONALD TRUMP president trump is heading to Texas today to meet with Apple. CEO CEO. Tim Cook at a facility. That's slated to assemble the macbook pro in September apple won a tariff exemption from the trump administration and announce. It would start building a redesign MAC. Mac Pro using more parts that are source in the US with the previous versions president. Trump's expected to use today's event to promote its efforts to convince companies to add more. US That's manufacturing jobs as for the tour may highlight a strong relationship with the president. He seeks further relief from tariffs on Chinese imports. Have I have to say so the relationship between Tim Cook and it's fascinating fascinating. It is to comment to everyone. Well no because they come to the world from completely different sides In terms of some of their own politics that's clear we know that and yet And and yet Tim Cook has somehow managed to ingratiate himself with the president. I great peril potentially great peril. But he's managed to do it just are at great peril to the woke social media without well not just the woke social media crowd but to certain and customers to employees employee base. He somehow managed this. He's he's walked a fine East threaded the needle in the remarkable. Way If it's I know that shareholder value is not in vogue anymore but if you're an apple shareholder right employee or a customer you I think if it benefits the the company whether it's the tariffs or currying favour with with people in high places or whatever it is if you I think you've been that's I think you can put you people on your people on your side or so quick to to park their woke sensibilities when for example the NBA Yester- so the NBA. So inside. You were sitting out. I'm not really ago. You were saying I'm not on either side. I'm a social commentator and I'm just saying that people park there woke sensibilities wherever they need to go based on their own house to buy. Is that actually the apple employees and some of the customer basis President Andrew. I mean not. Everybody is part of the resistance where they won't accept two thousand sixteen election. Joe I mean there are some people if you walk in and you say anything about trump you might get thrown out of the place. I mean. That's not normal. We're we're in strange saying that. Just as the impeachment hearings will be taking place as Tim. Cook will be side by side hand in hand with the president. I think that's actually remarkable thing. Want to go over to aim. Java's joins us with a preview. Amen Yeah Good Morning Andrew Huge stakes here in Austin Texas. Today's the president travels here. He's going to visit a facility where they build those Mac book pro computers apple announcing that in September they were going into expand production here in the United States because they were able to get some tariff exclusions. Now the question is is there going to be visible tension between these two men. The expectation tation is that both will be at their most diplomatic but there has been some tension between them in the past the president very critical of apple during the campaign Tim Cook boasted a fundraiser. For Hillary Clinton back in two thousand sixteen today though both sides are going to try to do some persuasion. The president is going to be persuading the American public public that his tariffs are working. That is American companies. Like apple are bringing at least some production back into the United States. Tim Cook is going to be trying trying to persuade. The president not to hurt apple with a December fifteenth round of tariff increases. Trying to find a way for apple to get additional exclusions wins and protect so much of its manufacturing. If you look at the MAC book pro overall it's an expensive product but it's not a major seller in terms of overall all revenue MAC products globally pale in comparison to iphone sales which are a much much bigger sales figure annually for apple according to their co Q.. Four reports so. What you're looking at here is MAC book pro being a relatively small piece of apples overall production? But Tim Cook has to focus on protecting that. Big Big number here and that's the number that could be impacted by that December Fifteenth Tariff Increase. Guys Lot to watch for here in Austin Texas throughout the day today and a couple of questions in terms of with this. It's a little bit of a strange bedfellows situation. That's taking place there in Austin Who wanted to do this? Meaning was this instigated by Tim. Cook and Apple or was this instigated by the White House and president trump in terms of this obviously being in large part. What seems like a photo while? Yeah look that's a really good question. We don't entirely know the answer to that. Neither side will comment but just in terms of the the body language and the communication between the two entities. The White House thousand apple all of the communication on this is coming from the White House not from apple all our direction on. What's going to happen today? Coming from the White House not from Apple. I think the the president has more to gain here. Then Tim Cook does. There's a lot of risk in this. There's been a lot of one on one opportunity for Tim Cook. There's been a lot of articles written over the past six six months about. Actually how Tim Cook has threaded this needle with the president. He has devoted a lot more time than many other. CEO's in America have talking to the president meant to some extent. Imagine trying to ingratiate apple with the president given a possibility of tariffs on their products. But what is seems so interesting to me is how he's thread that needle at the same time that he's managed to placate what I imagine could be employees who have different political views than the president consumers consumers that may have very different in the president. And how you think he's managed that and therefore what this meeting is about. I soon as also part of some deal because everything everything to some degree with the president deal. That's right and I'm told that Tim Cook is managed that in large part by going through the trump family talking to melania trump at dinners That are held at the White House talking to avant trump serving on The president's jobs board That's very important to the president. Remember a lot of. CEO's walked away from this president in after his comments at Charlottesville. Now here's Tim Cook showing up again and again and I asked the president. What Tim Cook is doing differently? And the president told me look. He's as the only CEO who actually picks up the phone calls me directly when he needs something. The president said Tim Cook has been very effective at making his case inside the White House. Why these tariffs shouldn't wouldn't hurt apple But you're right Tim. Cook is a comes from liberal Silicon Valley he hosted a fundraiser. For Hillary Clinton these would not be the two menu. You would think of as bosom buddies and yet here. They are both with a lot at stake. Historically I always thought. CEO's would WANNA know photo op with with the president of the United States. You AH I think you're just very disappointed in Tim Cook that he's not more than he hasn't really joined the resistance. This is such a valuable great company and it does so well. It must be maddening to you that he consorts with this. This is not about normalizing. He's normalizing this guy which is not good about my view for somebody else's this is about the fact that never mind. I decided to distance themselves from the president at that at that point in time many asa. Let's fill some of not come back look is you. I'm an Apple Fan. Boy I love I like Tim Cook. I know I know. Oh and that's what makes it so painful for me to see you to see you. And maybe turnaround time for some recent IPO super and lift have been struggling of course is this year but Mark Brahimi who is with us this morning at the table see some signs of profitability and he joins US right now. He is the lead Internet Alice Capital Markets. We often get to see him through the window in the box. But now you're here live live and in person. These are stocks have been battered batter. And you know like we've had seven Internet. IPO's this year. Six of them are have broken. ISSUE TRADED BLOW THEIR IPO price. All of them have underperformed the market year to date If if you believe in reversion to the mean there's probably one or two in there that you wanna buy on this kind of correction and I think Google lift or two of those They both Listened to the market the market. They said we want prophets chose your path to profitability. They broke both brought up there Inflection points and win they're going to turn profitable Materially Up to two thousand twenty one and We we think there's enough Levers that they can pull to do that. So yes. We like the assets. The market opportunity hasn't change the companies. Have we only had one or two quarters. They are tuning the insofar as if they get to profitability by twenty twenty one they will have also had to reduce the growth rate to get there. I don't think this is the ultimate balancing testier right. I don't think so. Our mutual friend Mike Isaac and his Super Palm. I thought would he highlighted. There was just how inefficiently the company was run before. It was gunned for growth. So if you do that that means somebody coming in a little bit more efficiency oriented like Derek. A cosmonaut. Josh was shot he can come in. Take out some of those. Excess spending initiatives should've and still manage the company for growth know. Market Opportunity is still as good as it was before. And you've got these two actors acting more rationally. What happened today New York City? Juneau just the distant third ridesharing service just went out of business. The markets are are there. They're all dating and their their regulatory risk. Yes certain cities states municipalities countries. Saying you know what these drivers employees. That's just what they are. You look at you. Look at what they're trying to do in California and the approach and I was actually asking Dr about this a couple of weeks ago at the deal conference this idea that the way the way the law is the whole thing was structured was effectively to deal with Uber and LYFT and now over in lifted saying this doesn't apply to us because we're a platform. How can it be? You actually think they're going to win those cases I feel the the legal stuff but absolutely some of their drivers should get benefits. Those who work with them. I don't know thirty hours a week. And there are good number of them the truth behind these GIG economy companies however is that the vast majority aren't of their drivers aren't but there should be some sort of compromise there in the middle. How long it takes? My guess is that this is like a year or two slog worst may be over for your think for Uber and lift. But I go down that list. You can look at slack which everybody thought was an enterprise grade enterprise price company. I still think it's a great time. I use it every single day yet. It's off materially you. What are the other ones? You know when you look at the rest of the the bunch or are there others you touch your now. Yes yes One that's not this year but last year was spotify and I think that stock has gone way up way down. It's right back at par. He didn't need to buy direct eliciting. You could just by now at the exact same price is but I think some of these that reach those profitability inflection. Points snap chats another one snapchat pinterest are both going to turn profitable meaningfully profit by next year for the first time ever investors. There's a new group of investors that will come in at them because of that and so which ones don't you touch. I said slacking and you said something that you did not behind behind there so I didn't because I don't cover it so that's why is there anybody else that you would not touch though that you do cover right now. There's a good number of stocks ox that We don't recommend you're cautious on usually though it's ones that even if they're profitable gone ex growth ebay comes to mind type. Advisor comes to mind. Does this this dynamic around these these these listings public listings direct listings. Justice changed the model for you. I mean do you think that we've now seen what happened with spotify. We saw what happened with slack. We've seen what happens in an IPO. Do you think that there's any lesson from all this it's going to change how investors approach. IPO's I don't think so. And by the way I think very few companies that can pull off direct listings. You you have to position where you don't need cash and you have a good enough brand name that you don't need to educate investors are very few companies. That can do that. Okay we're GONNA leave it there. Mark thank you thank you see you will be next up next block. pod becky's at one of New York City's target locations with Brian Cornell the retailers Taylor's chairman and CEO. I know were winning footsteps. We're getting more footsteps. Stores are more quick store site talk about footsteps that particular target. They're sitting in and is one of the two best locations makeup sales out of all targets in the. US weren't next door to us a forum. Where across the street from macy's how does that work? Then he answered after after the problems. It's human nature to hate problems. But why is that after all problems inspire us to mend men things. Ben Things make things better. That's why so many people work with. Ibm On everything from city. Traffic to ocean plastic new the schools to new energy flight delays to food safety smart loves problems. Ibm Let's put smart to work visit visit. IBM DOT com slash. SMART learn more. Welcome back to swap DOT becky. He sat down with targets. CEO and chairman. Brian Cornell in New York's thirty Fourth Street targets. Were this morning. I'll try to set the scene for you in case you've never been. It's a smaller format store store of two floors suited to its urban location on the same block as Penn station across the street from macy's it has plenty of foot traffic as you'll hear inside it's surrounded by vibrant display winter proper jackets on the main floor. Becky and Brian began their conversation. It was just moments after the retailer reported its quarterly earnings and it. It was a strong report while the two spoke in the immediate wake of the numbers stock hidden all time high in pre market trading. Here's Becky right inside the Herald Square entrance. So what do you think these numbers. You're actually trading at one hundred twenty one dollars right now Surprise you to see the streets reaction on this or kind of what you were anticipating. Certainly gratifying I think the team has done such an exceptional job of delivering really consistent results for ten quarters now so. It's a great day for the team. I think they've done an exceptional the job executing a strategy that we've had in place for several years and I think we're awarding shareholders of in terms of the investments that you've put into this So much of it has been raising wages reinvesting in stores building more stores out. But then I think the big deal also is what you've done with digital your ability to now ship two people same day and a lot of cases allow people to pick up in the store or even pick up curbside When did you really believe that? That's the way you had to go. And is this kind of proof proof of what you put through well becky. We focused on bringing great inspiration to our guests when they shop our physical store or their online making it really easy and all those film options in order online. Pick up in store or drive in one of our parking lots will put it in your trunk or have a ship shopper. Come to your home. And then making ensure we deliver great value so when we get that balance between inspiration es and value. I think our guest is rewarding us both by shopping more in store org and also online. What what what are you seeing right now in terms of the consumer You're heading into the holiday shopping season the most important quarter for any retailer. What do you see in the stores across the country? I think we continue to see a very healthy consumer environment. Obviously a very strong labor environment unemployment continues to be very low you know the percentage of consumers that are in the workforce I continues to grow. Wages are rising. Consumer confidence is strong and all the indicators right now let's say this is going to be a very solid holiday season no indications are somewhere between three and four percent growth for retail shopping in the holiday season too. We WanNa make sure we're there to take market share during the holiday season and delight all the target guests and shop our stores shop online. Where do you think you'll be stealing market share from competitors? Yeah when you think about our business. It was fairly new because of this multi multi category portfolio. So we've got a big apparel business about twenty percent of our business is apparel apparel was up over ten percent third quarter so we're clearly league delivering great value and quality in apparel. And we're seeing that rewarded by no more trips into our payroll department and more shopping online. We've had a big home business clearly when it comes. The holiday season electronics and toys were big part of our assortment but so xvbeauty. That's one of our fastest growing categories. Essentials are really important and we're seeing a great reacted to our new brand gooden gathering food and beverage so we have an opportunity to take market. Share in apparel and home in toys as an electron ix in essentials beauty and in food and beverage. And that's really kind of the magic of our business. But who are you selling the market share from these shoppers and used to be going to the malls but now they're buying a lot closer us here at target while it seems to be obviously traffic was up. And while there's a lot of important factoid when you went through the the report traffic being up over three percent is one of the most important indicators for me when I look at the health of our business when we have traffic growing. I know we're winning footsteps. We're getting more footsteps in our stores and more click stores site and that's really the indicator of a healthy business for us. You have six fewer days. Every retailer does six days between Thanksgiving and Christmas this year which is usually a pretty heavy hurdled? Try and jump over just because you need days to get people in the stores if you're going to have sixty days inevitably it's going to be tougher com. What do you do to try at that? Well we've been planning for it all season so it's not a surprise we know it's going to be very intense shopping season every day counts. So we've really made sure we're investing passing in our team. So fifty million dollars of additional wages during the holiday season we put a lot of time into training five hundred thousand thousand additional hours of training to make sure our teams are ready for the holiday season. We'll have twice as many team members working on the same day film it so we're really making sure that from a team team standpoint. We're investing in that important asset and our teams are ready. We'll be stamped. And they're ready to deliver against the guests needs. You know that that's not cheap. Cheap to get more people who are working paying them higher wages making sure that you can deliver more things on same day delivery and yet I think your margins must have improved pretty significantly at least in the third headquarter. And when when you look at it the revenue beat by a little bit by what streams expecting but earnings per share. beat by law. What happened where are you seeing us? Operating income grow by Over twenty percent. EPS was up twenty five percent. And I think it's the balance between really strong top line growth the margin mixing our business a great growth rate in categories like apparel strengthened home in beauty. But also we're changing the way we fulfilled so unlike many others a big part of our fulfillment filament. Is that same day offering where our stores are really at the center of how we still are digital experience so deeming money on that them being. He knows economics when it's delivered by our stores when it's order online pick up in store or its driver. Those look a lot more like store economics so we talked about this actually last year in March at our financial community event when we go from shipping from a DC to fulfilling for stores forty percent of the cost goes away but when it's order online pick up in store or drive up or fulfilled by ship about ninety percent of the cost goes away so those economics comics look a lot like store economics and we certainly like that but importantly sort of our guest. They liked the convenience the ease the fact that they know they can order online inconveniently combined target store and we'll have it ready for them. Let's talk about store economics because we're sitting in a store on thirty fourth street in New York City. It's eleven stores. I believe you have Right. Now we've got quite a few no in New York City at people thought that it was going to be impossible to bring a big discounter into New York City and still make it work from an economics perspective. You took a tour around Just about a half an hour ago and look at a lot of the things that are here shocked to seeing food downstairs and how much the assortment that you can bring in. But how do you actually make the economics work here. Well when there was great demand for the brand in a market like New York City. So we're sitting here in Herald Square. Thousands of people walk by the store every day and when we opened ended up a couple of years ago that demand was enormous and for us. It's bringing the best target into a smaller format so we curate the best of our assortment understand what the local the neighborhood is looking for. But it's been really well received in these are most productive stores anywhere in America. The Seal Square foot really strong and you're paying higher Renzo you making up for absolutely. You pointed out that the makeup department downstairs advise it's number one number two depending on the day in terms of the Megan sales in the entire country sales were next door to us a forum. Where across the street from macy's how does that work? Well again. It gets back to the inspiration. The spirits these were providing the guests who shops his store great value great assortment. It's the brands are looking for. But we've got great service. We're investing in our team here. It's a great experience when you walk in but we pay it off amazing value. You guys have a lot of national brands beside the Daiva downstairs. So a lot of the national brands that you are offering here. There's been speculation. That with net Nike stepping away from Amazon. You all might be able to be a great retailer at place for them to be. Have you had any conversations with Nike about selling Nike Products Camin. We're always talking to great national brands being. We just recently announced extended partnership with Disney where we put twenty-five Disney stores inside of a target and next year. We'll add probably forty more so we've always had great branded partnerships starbucks is in most locations. We've got a great partnership. CBS people like Disney. We've added Levi's or collection action so we're very selective but you know we have great national brand partnerships that complement our own brands each and every day so yes or no on Nike. We'll see in other words. You're not gonNa tell me just yet. Probably won't tell you today but we're always looking for partnerships and we know our guest love great national brands so it's that balance between rate own brands out brands like universal thread What we do with day goodfellow for men's and what we're doing with national brands like Levi's and other great partnerships that will continue to build Brian? You see numbers like this with your margins improving and people are going to say. Wait a second. I thought you had a lot of goods that were were tariff. Because you've got to do some sourcing out of China how do you handle the tariffs. What kind of impact has it had? Well we talked about this before our team's been working for a years now to make sure that we have a very sophisticated then matrix that we have options offset some of these challenges and this is really attributed to the work our merchants have done our sourcing teams to make sure we can balance the chair pressures and still deliver great value for our guest. How much of your merchandise is is sourced from China? It's a significant portion but we also we've also diversified now where we source so we've got a very diversified outsourcing matrix. We made sure that we've worked with our vendors to try to offset some of those cost but right now we feel like we're well prepared to to manage this tariff challenge as we go into the fourth quarter. What what what are you watching it in terms of Washington signals Martin markets watching every day? Although I have to say the moves we see in the Dow based on the headlines lines it seemed to be smaller and smaller every time. How how closely are you watching? How do you kind of prepare? We watch it every hour of every day and obviously it's been moving each and every day there's different headlines We're trying to make sure we're staying on top of that but right. Now we're focused on executing holiday plans and we gotta make sure we we're looking into the horizon for what's going to happen in twenty twenty but we feel like we've got great plans in place for the holiday. The guesses rewarding with more traffic and more visit source site. Our teams have done a great job preparation for the holiday season. And we think we're ready to win Brian. You say that wages are strong in America. Is that a good thing from your perspective because it means people have more money to spend on your stores or is it a difficult thing for you because you've got to pay workers more to be here. I think it's great thing. I think this healthy consumer environment arment where people are seeing wages rising. We made a decision several years ago to go to a starting minimum wage of fifteen dollars by twenty twenty. We're we're attracting great talent. We want to be preferred place to work. We want to be a destination in retail. So it's allowing us to attract and retain talent and and I continue to think the best investment we've made is our investment in our team Brian WanNA thank you for joining us. Obviously those investments are paying off today target this morning and coming up on spock pod the medical dean at Stanford is prescribing tech innovation. Rising healthcare costs. We're able to predict prevent disease. Then we'll be better able to prevent the consequences of disease wants it advances and I'm really excited about the way. Technology can transform combat. Dr Lloyd minor is next. We're back and so is becky. She made her way back to the time for prices up and Andrew. Good morning and welcome the squawk box right here on CNBC. I answer. I was working along with Joe. Kernan here with us now is the one and only muhammed. Larry and chief economic adviser Hazard. It's great to see you sir good morning. Rising healthcare costs remain atop issue Twenty Twenty voters and Elizabeth Warren Medicare for all plan will be front and center at Wednesday day-night Democratic presidential debate in Atlanta for a closer look at the future of healthcare. Let's welcome Dr Lloyd Minor Dean of Stanford Medical School. It's great to have you in this. We WanNA WE WANNA play along and and prevent things. That's the answer to all of this. Do you have a list of things we can do. So that costs will go down when none of us ever get sick again. Isn't that really what we're talking about. Isn't that the best thing to try to do. Maybe technology can help absolutely one of the fundamental problems with cost and with outcomes in the US healthcare delivery delivery system. Today is that most impact almost entirely. Our focus is on after the fact care on reactive. Care if we're better able to predict addict and prevent disease and we have the science and technology that should enable us to do that for a able to predict him prevent disease than we'll be better able to prevent the the consequences of disease wanted advances and I'm really excited about the way. Technology can transform that. There's a lot we're doing at Stanford in that arena and a lot that's being done elsewhere whereas well well. I know you spent a lot of time on the east coast down at Johns Hopkins. Did it is it. Is it easier out in Palo Alto to develop develop these relationships with the right companies to to forge ahead in the the convergence between technology and healthcare. What couple of things I think? There's been a long tradition at Stanford Stanford of of getting things into the world and that involves commercialization very frequently and the fact that the tech community is around us and in so many ways Stanford Stanford has contributed to helping that community developed. It's more fluid to develop those relationships. We're working with Apple. We're working with various divisions of of alphabet really to lead the revolution digital health both with consumer facing devices and technologies and also with machine learning. Ai Enabled analytics mix. And that's the way we're going to really be able to get at this cost problem. Predicting and preventing you want to weigh in specifically on on Medicare for all necessarily. We'll litigated this over the next eleven months and probably over the next twenty years. I don't know how long it'll take because I can't imagine private insurance being easy easy to take away from most people and most people are covered that way so I don't know what events I going to happen. Should that be our goal. I in my question. The crux of this whole thing is does getting rid of the profit incentive. Actually make it easier to control costs. And she don't have to worry about profits. You don't need to make money so it should be cheaper to deliver care or does the lack of the profit incentive make it impossible to contain costs because there's there's no one watching the store watching the peace that's the ultimate question. Do you know the answer. I don't know the full answer but I do know that In a strictly fee for service world where we're being paid for increments of care that many cases not linked to outcomes. That's a problem Whether or not you consider it a for profit assistant not for profit system so the more we can move to Value based reimbursements. The more we can move towards evaluating outcomes and then Komo warding based upon improved outcomes the better the health of Americans will be in the better. Our delivery system will be the doctor and the entire time we were considering Obama care in the affordable care. act that seemed like what everybody was saying through that entire period of time here we are ten years later. Have we gotten any better at that. Are there places where we're making progress on that front. I think we we have. We have had fewer uninsured. Americans more insured Americans in that in principle is a good thing in terms of paying for outcomes or paying for preventative care. Hang on this fee for service. The number of bundled payment arrangements are increasing For Joint Replacement Ace meant certain forms of heart surgery Could that pay be increased. Probably so I think though that really the fundamental issue is twofold one predicting and preventing disease and the other is getting information from all the data. We have out there today. We've moved from paper records to electric records. But really what we've done is to substitute or to get rid of paper filing cabinets and substitute when them with electronic filing cabinets we still haven't gotten gotten or leverage the information that's embedded with all within all that data and until we're we do we're not going to be able to really deliver the type of of informed improvement in healthcare delivery that we've seen in so many other sectors of the economy because they've been empowered by information. We're still really not in healthcare. Doctor I want to go back to your excitement. It about be getting better at predicting and preventing right and link to conversation we had before you came on set here during the break about flu. Shot the what are the behavioral scientists sending you about not whether you're going to be able to predict and prevent but what are you going to be able to change our behavior consumer behavior so so what does does it take to match the science. What you excited about? To the fact that human behavior tend to lag the science telling me well behaviors artist artist thing to change. That's one thing we all know. I think technology has a role and I think we're seeing the effects of technology you know wearables all-too-frequently sit on the shelf Alf but as it becomes easier for our health behaviors to be informed by information we get about our health. The more we're able to effectively fleet change behavior and let me mention a couple of examples There are several companies that have focused on this particularly in the area of diabetes control where we have one variable that we know is very important. That's glucose level so if you look at companies like Lavar Ongo Amata health. What they're doing is they're creating communities to help people people change behavior regarding diet regarding Taking medications and to better control or eliminate type two diabetes technology can play an important role in helping behavior change But that is I think the most complicated thing about really having an impact on the outcomes in healthcare. I wear this all the time. I'm in here this this. IFP He's The you're the preeminent expert on all things inner ear or you're not GonNa wars and everything Yes yes yes. He's studying how the year works for the balanced system and hearing things are not good for us. I don't think they do. You have anything for trump arrangements syndrome. Is there any drug drug headphones. Should you keep your ears at all or not. I know I occasionally use ear buds. I think the key down. Keep the volume ways. We can monitor the amount of noise exposure. We're getting and I think you've no worries about the Bluetooth Bluetooth near the brain. That's yeah whether or not it's Wi fi or bluetooth you too. I think we need a lot more studies and evidence to know whether or not it's going to be a problem that yeah all right we gotta go. I don't know we'll talk off. Can't that's the show today. Thanks for listening. squawk box hosted by Joe. Kernan Becky. Quick and handy Ross Sorkin Weekday Mornings on CNBC at six Sam eastern get the smartest aches and analysis from our TV show right interiors subscribed to swap pod. Wherever you your podcast? We'll meet you back here tomorrow. You guys problems. It's human nature to hate problems. But why is that after after all problems inspire us to mend things. Ben Things make things better. That's why so many people work with. Ibm On everything from city. Traffic to ocean plastic new schools to new energy flight delays to food safety. SMART loves problems I._B._M.. Let's put smart to work visit I._B._M.. Dot Com slash smart to learn more.

Tim Cook President apple Kernan Becky United States IBM CEO Joe Not President Andrew New York City CNBC America twenty twenty Hillary Clinton Donald Trump CEO CEO Ross Sorkin macy White House
Body Temperature Changes; Coronavirus Stirs Sinophobia

Here & Now

43:13 min | 6 months ago

Body Temperature Changes; Coronavirus Stirs Sinophobia

"From NPR and WBZ. Im Tanya Moseley. I'm Robin Young. It's here now. The Senate will convene at four. PM Eastern Time Today to vote on the two articles of impeachment against President Don Trump. They are not expected to vote to remove him from office and last night in his State of the Union. President trump sounded like a man expecting to run again urged on at the outset by Republican lawmakers chanting four more years in a speech. That was more like a campaign rally but fact checkers are in overdrive. So let's do a little now now with NPR White House reporter. I used to Roscoe Asia. Hello and the president. Does you heard talked up the economy understandably. It's very good. Let's listen America's fortunes fortunes are on the rise in America's future is blazing bright the years of economic decay are over Aisha Asia Economic Decay. I mean maybe he means the Obama Administration previous to his so remind us again. What do economists about when this strong academy we see now started what so the economy was growing and there was growth in jobs before president trump came into office for instance When you looked at the thirty eight months since the two thousand sixteen election the US economy has added seven point three million jobs but in the same amount of time before trump's election the economy added eight point four million jobs and the US economy did grow at two point three percent percent last year? A steal. But that's lower than the three percent growth target that the trump administration actually set for itself so the economy is strong but there's some some nuance there and it didn't all start with president trump. Yeah well he also claimed that the manufacturing sector is making a comeback that sixty thousand factories were shuttered under both the Obama and and Bush administrations. But he's added twelve thousand factories. So what is true about manufacturing jobs so the US has added four hundred eighty seven thousand thousand manufacturing jobs since trump took office of there was a very strong growth in manufacturing in twenty eighteen but last year there was a slump slumped the US only added about twenty nine thousand factory jobs and this is because largely because of the president's trade war with China. It disrupted supply. I changed and factories took a hit now because of those tariffs and maybe worldwide output but also according to the Labor Department. We're seeing a manufacturer's lost jobs. Last last year in Michigan Ohio Pennsylvania Wisconsin where trump had pledged. Those jobs would serve. So there's that and there's healthcare let's listen again to the president also. Oh made an ironclad pledged to American families. We will always protect patients with pre existing conditions. The the White House is also backing states in federal court states. That are arguing to abolish the affordable. Care Act which makes that pledge to protect DOC preexisting conditions. This would seem to be blatantly. Not True what is the president. Claiming is well at this point. The president is saying saying that they're going to protect Preexisting conditions because it's a very popular part of of of Obamacare. It's a very part of of that law but right now as you said of the administration is black is a supporting a lawsuit. That would scrap the entire thing that would scrap. Wrap the affordable care act He says and the President says that they will make sure that even if that happens they'll come up with a new plan. The problem is is the administration has not come out with a health plan that would replace the affordable care act if it is struck down so we don't know how they would actually follow through on these. These claims that they would protect preexisting conditions by the way the president also said he's working with senators and he'll sign any bill to lower prescription costs that is put on his desk. And that's when and there was that protest chant from house Democrats who have passed a bill to do just that and it stuck in the Senate so they felt that that was a little bit hypocritical critical but I should. We have asked about the tone in Washington today because as many are pointing out and we just did. The president said many things that were just not true and Nancy Pelosi said after the speech that that's why in response she tore up his speech at the end a quite a moment what is Washington saying today about all of this is just along party lines. It's basically along party lines that you have a lot of Republicans who are are raising concerns and saying saying that. They felt like it was inappropriate. That she took this action Obviously a she of Speaker Pelosi is defending her actions. And you know. Democrats crafts are defending What she did? This is a very partisan time in general And the president has obviously doled out a lot of of attacks and Done a lot of things that it as president of that has not been common for presidents before and especially in attacking his opponents. So this is just a very a a time where there's just a lot of the trial in DC certainly as impure White House reporter Asia Roscoe. Thank you thank you. The the Iowa Democratic Party still has not released. The full results of Monday's caucuses after technical difficulties with the mobile APP brought. The party's first presidential nominating contest of the year to a grinding. Halt as we wait for the results. There are new questions about the team behind. The APP called shadow as well as questions. About one of shadows. Investors Investors the politically connected nonprofit acronym for more. We're joined now by DEEPA seat the Rahman she's a reporter for the Wall Street Journal and DEEPA. What more can you you tell us about what went wrong on Monday? We have a few more details about the APP. In its relationship to a very well connected. Democratic nonprofit called acronym and our senses is that it was a pretty small team really shoestring operation. The lot of the people on the team had digital politics experience. You know some of them worked on Hillary Clinton campaign and quite a few others didn't have that experience was in architectural designer for very recently before joining the firm and other was a teacher our senses. Also that this is a team that really raced just to get it. Done project started around November. They were paid again in December. They were working on on this APP through the month of January anywhere and even the weekend before the Iowa caucuses. They were pushing these final updates to try to get the APP in a stable position. Shen as possible so this company which is called Shadow. Do you know how they got the job in Iowa. Our best understanding right now is that they were being promoted by acronym and its founder. Tear McGowan and a lot of different states and we know that some of the contracts that they got over the past last year came from their connections to this company which is very splashy very prominent and well known organization and democratic politics as to to what specifically drew the connection between shadow and the Iowa Democratic Party. Those details are still emerging. But we know right now that that the connection acronym to them a lot of favors. Okay so perhaps that may be why we did not see the Democratic Party. Discover some of these problems before for caucus night. Yeah I mean you know. This is an organization that was moving really quickly. That was developing technology. That was new for the Party and it it was really under the radar one of them unusual things about the way that this kind of controversy unfolded is the fact that prior to the caucuses. Nobody woody knew who this company was. The Democratic Party wasn't telling anybody wasn't telling the public and he was instructing precinct captains not to share the name name of the vendor not to share the name of the company behind the APP. The headset it was for security reasons but a lot of member security experts say. That's concerning concerning that. You want to have that level of transparency you know before big event because you have to assume the hackers no the identity of vendor more about that relationship ship so according to the Federal Election Commission shadow also received payments from the presidential campaigns. A former vice president Joe Biden and former Indiana DNA mayor Pete Buddha judge. Buddha judge has several ties to shadow have their campaign said anything about those relationships not yet I mean we know Oh that you know the shadow particular had a lot of people from the Hillary Clinton campaign right now. We don't have a sense that this is anything but a technical failure failure. All our sources are indicating. This isn't a hack. This was in breach of any kind. It was it was coding errors and sort of layers of technical issues on top of each other are in a rush job part of the promise that acronym apparently made to its democratic clients. was that They would help build a digital strategy to rival president president trump. So what does this whole debacle really say about the state of the Democratic Party and its digital operations as the elections get underway. What lessons I could other Steve Party officials take from Iowa? This feels like an unforced error. This isn't something that really needed to happen. And it raises questions about the overall overall preparedness of the Democratic Party. I mean Donald Trump has a very sophisticated aggressive intentional digital campaign. You don't have a parallel operation right now and the Democratic Party the messaging still being fine tuned sort of all over the map and then you have just just not a cohesive strategy around how to deploy technology. I mean this is a case where you know Democratic Party in Iowa's trying to update the system. They you know they initially said that. This APP would be a really simple reliable effective way to tally votes and so it raises a lot of questions agents about how serious the Democrats are about really weaving in technology and new platforms into their campaign. And when it's company like acronym that's implicated in all of this S. that sort of muddies the waters more because acronym was trying to solve that imbalance. Now they had seventy five million dollars that they were going to. Deploy ploy to to digital efforts to defeat Donald Trump and so it raises some questions of whether that's going to happen in this election cycle and how that steep us the Rahman she she is a reporter for the Wall Street Journal. DEEPA thank you thank you so much. What's good Yo as you know? February is black history month and all throughout that month. NPR's codes which is going to be running special series about the history of black resistance because as long as black folks have been oppressed in this country. which is you know forever? We've we've also been fighting back listen and subscribed this week. We've been looking at science under the trump administration or as some researchers Richard Call it the silencing of science. They're keeping a tracker with examples. We also heard this week about the. USDA moving several offices to Kansas City resulting living an employee's quitting what's being called brain drain. Those stories are at here now. DOUBT ORC today. The status of signs at the Environmental Protection Agency. You've probably probably already heard about how the EPA is scrapping protections for waterways official saying it's too correct federal overreach but you may not have heard about how the EPA is also a relaxing rules on a specis or how it prevented NASA from flying a plane over Houston after Hurricane Harvey to measure air quality something the EPA dispute route. If you haven't heard you'd be forgiven. There's a lot of news. Coming out of Washington and a lot of Rollbacks at the EPA most occurring over the objections of the agency's Own scientists some of whom are even trump appointees for more. Let's bring in Michael Halpern. Deputy Director of the Center for Science and Democracy at the Union of concerned scientists. Michael welcome great to be with your oven and there's just so much you feel as if every day when you those who still pick up newspapers there it is on the front page. Something being rolled back at the EPA but just to start we know that scientists in sounding an alarm for decades remember nineteen eighty eight. He had James Hansen. The former former NASA scientist it was considered the first warning to a mass audience about global warning He told the. US Congressional hearing he could declare with ninety nine percent confidence. Incidence that it was human caused. He was scorned. You know By then administration so this has been going on but how would you characterize what's happening happening. Now how big is this. I mean every administration has a tendency to want to champion the facts that support the policies and to bury the information. That doesn't doesn't but what we're seeing now is At a completely different scale across the board science has been sidelined from decision making it. EPA with significant significant consequences for both public health and the environment. Let's take a look. This is all according to the Union of concerned scientists in two thousand nineteen thirteen research search centers that used to study how chemical exposure affects children. Defended it would seem because at least one was publishing research on corporate folks. This is the pesticide. Dow Chemicals Manufacturers the Research Center said it harms children's brains in two thousand seventeen a new report on the cancer risks of formaldehyde common chemical. You know it's everything from ply with glue. That report was suppressed because EPA claims. It's still checking the accuracy. There's been a rollback on specis. Protection or regulation last year. The EPA said that manufacturers can now get waivers if they want to use it. It's a known carcinogen it's in things like wall insulation and Bleach and bulletproof vests an Andrew Wheeler who's the head of the EPA said this would strengthen public health What did the scientists say? The scientists were unequivocal goal. And saying that this is a dangerous product that needs to be phased out. It's been phased out all across the world and it needs to happen here too. In this case as in many any cases the scientists aren't even consulted when the rule is being put forward and Wendy decision is being made and they find out about the decision the way the rest of us do through the news or through an agency announcement. And so what we're seeing. Is that the wholesale sidelining of agency experts from important processes that are supposed to protect talk public health. Yeah well and you know we've expressed here before that it's very alarming to scientists that before wheeler was appointed head of the EPA he. He was a lawyer that lobbied for the coal industry against the Obama Administration's environmental regulations. I mean is there a sense that the Fox in the Henhouse. Absolutely the Fox's built the Hen House here now there seems to be this idea that They can disregard laws like the clean air act in pursuit of the policies that they wanna put forward but the amount of air pollution. That's GonNa sick in you or kill. You doesn't depend on who wins an election. WHO's filling a seat at the top of the EPA? YEA that's why we need the scientist to be able to tell us what the threats are and respond appropriately One impact is this having on scientists because because the Union of concerned scientists. You did a survey back in two thousand eighteen to find out. What did you hear? We do surveys periodically of scientists and have done so oh for about fifteen years and scientists at EPA are worse off than they've ever been They report significant political interference in their work. The impact impact of workforce reductions making it hard to do their jobs and a lot of self censorship. That's happening at all levels on issues like climate change on issues like chemical safety insecurity and that kind of climate in which communication is discouraged. Makes it a lot more difficult for experts to speak openly with the public about health hazards whether they're long standing like lead or emerging problems lake Various viruses. But when you say this is a problem this is a problem we understand. And especially it's hard to imagine we'd reintroduced that in a in a big way into the culture. But what are you talking about some of the impact being I mean. Are you talking about specific civic things like breathing so you know the Clean Air Act has been enormously successful because it is grounded in science and the EPA. I have to go back and set a new standard every five years for different types of pollutants including one called particular matter That's an air air pollutant. That makes asthma worse. It Leads to early death in ten those tens of thousands of people every year and this is the time when EPA has to go back. I can look at that now. The scientists clear. EPA scientists have said that the current standard does not sufficiently protect public health and needs to be strengthened now the EPA can't win the science of. They're doing their best to sabotage that scientific process through which those standards are set. So yes they did and Fire a panel of the nation's top particularly matter experts saying that their expertise was no longer needed and these scientists cared so much that they decided to meet any way a on their own time in a public meeting using the same procedures they would have under official EPA rules and that's omitted their findings to the agency for consideration so that they could set the record straight on what they believe. A sufficiently protective standard would be This has an impact on millions of the people and the standard that sat will determine whether the error that many of us breath is sufficiently safe. We we know. The government in some occasions has responded through spokespeople saying you know in different occasions. Different things that rollbacks cutbacks were because there was fat there was overlap lap or or overreach overreach on the part of the EPA. We talked about the fact. That the Pierre's now packed with former industry insiders who would see overreach overreach. But what's fascinating. Though is many of these scientists who were cherry picked by the trump administration are also objecting to what the EPA is doing doing for example water last month the trump administration finalized rule. which will undo Obama era protections for streams and wetlands and a government advisory board of scientists many of them trump appointees wrote that the proposed water rule neglects established science? I mean we have trump's Own appointees contradicting his policies. Your thoughts on that. The one of the great things about science based laws like the Clean Air Act or the clean water actors actors that the EPA has to show its work. They have to be able to justify their decisions based on scientific information. That's one reason why you've seen a lot of criticism awesome even from scientists who have been appointed by president trump and you've seen the administration lose a lot of lawsuits in court art Because they can't back up what they are trying to put forward now. It's important to note that even if they lose in court there still still delaying a public protection from moving forward by months or years and any public protections that are delayed benefits polluters at the expense sense of the public. You know only doing nothing. In the face of evidence that pollutant is harmful means that more people are going to get sick and more people are going to die but also that the manufacturers of an unsafe product practice. We'll have months or years of additional profits. We mentioned Houston during Hurricane. Harvey be There were chemical spills fires. Exxon Mobil Chevron Valero all had breaches residents were calling the hotline because of gas smell superfund sites leaking into rivers and streams again. This is according to the Union of concerned scientists NASA was planning to fly one of its hyper-sensitive planes over Houston to detect whether the air was safe but according to e mails obtained by the La Times the EPA said no thanks which puzzled the NASA scientists. I'm assuming it's because of things like this. The House has actually passed out of committee. The Scientific Integrity Act it makes it illegal to distort or suppress scientific research research. Six Republicans joined the Nineteen Democrats. Who voted out of committee? What you testified before that committee in favour obviously and I'm just wondering warning you know? We know that there are people who do not believe in science making policy. They might have been in that room. Did you feel that. Well I think that Republicans and Democrats both believe I believe in science They both benefit greatly from The use of science and policy making and so there is a growing appetite and understanding that you don't want politicians to get in the way of scientists to be able to share their research with public. I hear this coming from all kinds of different advocates and all kinds of different policy makers curse and so Science policy is sexy right now. And we're going to try to do our best to make sure that than doesn't Wayne Science Policy is sexy. Would Hope Michael Halperin deputy director of the Center for Science and Democracy at the Union of concerned scientists. Thank you it's been a pleasure and we reached out to the EPA for comment spokesman. Michael Abu disputed many of the Union of concerned scientists claims and said the EPA will continue to use the best available science regardless of the claims of a few federal employees. His full statement plus all of our stories stories and your comments at here now dot org. The Corona own of virus is now to blame for nearly five hundred deaths in China and health experts. Say That number is expected to rise and as quickly as this virus is spreading globally. So is anti-china sentiment or sin a phobia. Just this week. There was a report of an attack of a woman wearing a face mask in New York City and the Chinese Embassy in Denmark. Mark has demanded an apology. After newspaper they are published an image depicting the Chinese flag with a virus like figure in place of yellow stars to talk more about this. We're joined by Doctor Seema. Yasmin a journalist and Clinical Assistant Professor at Stanford University. Welcome thank you on Ya this anti Chinese sentiment. You've studied this kind of thing. This is not the first time. We've seen societies. Racial is a disease so to speak. Is that right. That's absolutely right. We sort during the SARS epidemic of two thousand to two thousand and three when the virus arrived in Toronto and people start referring to the Chinese disease and Matt Very Real Implications Asian people because of that belief Chinese owned businesses in Toronto. Saw An eighty percent reduction in revenue that year and some some even went out of business and this idea of the yellow peril as it's been known dates back even further and it's linked to this idea that migrants had foreign people carry disease Aziz. It's been really used to push anti immigrant rhetoric as well. That is one example of this. I think it's important to point which is when the European colonizers came to America with diseases and weaponized infections to kill indigenous people but otherwise this longstanding trope of infectious migrants has been studied and it's been debunked talked. You mentioned what Chinese store owners went through in Toronto. That is a financial impact I can only imagine that. There's a deep psychological psycological toll as well on being deemed suspicious. Can you talk more about that. The American Academy of Pediatrics released a statement actually in July of last year. That said racism has a profound impact on the health of children. That's true of adults too and that racism is by design an entirely alienating eighteen experience it causes anxiety depression and anger. We're hearing of Asian doctors here in the US being rejected by patients so these impacts they run deep and they am. They affect people's everyday lives in many ways. A lot of this synod phobia and normalization of this. Fear is rooted though in a desire people have have to be safe and not get sick How can we combat the spread of both the corona virus and this fear of certain bodies at the same time? I think it's actually rooted in racism and the need to continue justifying the other ring of people who are not white. And I think that's why we see this very overt racism awesome with many epidemics whether it saw ebola or a new corona virus epidemics. Shed light I think on existing injustices. Every time and they shut ally on the inadequacies of governments so the disease might be new but the racism that exacerbates is not new. And what we have to do is really really the emphasize that it's not who you are. It's what you do and where you are that puts you risk of disease as a real danger to fearing other people's bodies both both for those people who are other but also because having this nonsense belief that only certain people who get the disease actually means you're really misinformed and puts you at risk of infection action also means you're ignoring the very real risks to your health. which if you're American the real risk to your health right now is flu? That's Doctor Seema. Yasmin at Stanford University. Thank you so much. Thank you More than a dozen families in Flint Michigan are suing the school system. They are arguing. Their children were exposed to brain damaging levels of lead during the water crisis. There six years ago the parents believe that exposure may have caused or exacerbated exacerbated. Their Children's special needs these families will make their case in court this summer. This case is just one of several lawsuits against the flint. School system. The city's rate of special education students has grown steadily. Since the water crisis began twenty eight percent of students. There are in special education. The national average is about thirteen percent sent for more. We're joined by Flint Resident and Mother Jessica Gutierrez and Education Attorney. Kristen Taunton with the ACLU of Michigan. Welcome to you both. Thank you for having us. Yes thank you and Jessica I want to start with you. You're a mother of five born and raised in Flint. Tell us more about your children and where where they attend school presently. They're spread out in different schools. So I have one daughter that goes to a charter school in. She's in the seventh and then I have two that are going to will inside the city of Flint. which is a private school and I have a little one? That's an early on and then I have one that is attending dual enrolled School that's the part of you of them Medical professionals have said. There's no way to prove conclusively. Inclusively that led his caused new disabilities and flint. But we know that children exposed to lead or at higher risk of neurological damage and developmental delays Jessica no one knows their children better than a mother. And you've certainly seen changes in your children. What can you tell us that you've seen well I've seen issues where I had a child that was potty trained and now all of a sudden she has a problem with incontinence. And it's been going on four three three and a half years The worst types of behavioral issues are the ones where you can see that your child realizes that what what they're doing is not normal and the worst thing about that is that if you didn't have a background about why you're chilling uh-huh behaving the way that they are. You would think that it is inherently being disobedient. So if I if I jump a little bit Ford of the State of Michigan she again on put into Play basically a system or a a place medical place where you can get your children tested for neurological testing testing. So when you go and you get your child tested and you find out that there is something both definitely wrong with your child. It's like a retraumatize tation all over again because all my goodness all of these times harshly punished my kid. So you have that to go back over and that's what you found in your case specifically with your family your children were tested and They were formerly diagnosed. Yes with different conditions and and on the thing is you leave. You're like so what do I do now. And that's not the only Russian that parents have also of the teachers that I've okay with are also having that concern. I was pregnant during twenty fourteen. I had my baby in two thousand fifteen and there are programs early on for or the the little ones and so what. Now they're starting to see is now. This is the influx the introduction of the children that were just like the precipice of the water crisis they were in Utero. Their parents were drinking the water. They were drinking seeing it with their to their kids in the bottles and what they're seeing with the students is they. They don't know how to handle it. I WANNA bring in Kristen totten and we're going to talk a little bit about the resources within Flint schools in the city at large because it was already a city strapped for cash and a very significant way but kristen in the past few years fifteen city and state officials have been indicted for their actions related to this crisis. I mean we goes without saying that. This fight is far from over part of the reason. Though that we're seeing a spike taking the number of children in special education is because of the requirement that the school system test the children for special needs. Is that correct Can you tell us more about that. Sure so we brought this lawsuit back in October of two thousand sixteen after approaching the state to say you're doing things for the zero to five population. But what are you doing for the K.. Through twelve population and what they were able to tell us that they were providing nutritional supplements them leafy green vegetables and nurses which is a good thing but we knew that was going to fall very short as to what the need would demand because we have been watching flint even before the water crisis and knowing that they were not meeting their obligations under the individuals with disabilities education. Act which one requires that. You find the children who are struggling to learn and then you provide them with a free appropriate public education. We knew that they were doing this. Because we were also monitoring the level of suspensions and expulsions from the Flint Community School district and we found found that it was the highest in the state So we had to file this lawsuit in October of two thousand sixteen along with the New York law firm White and case and also the Education Law Center of New Jersey. We filed it and by October. Two thousand seventeen. We were realizing like enough. Not Enough is happening and so we filed a preliminary injunction and we knew that utilizing the psycho geico educational evaluations that are typical in schools when you assess to see if a child has a disability were too subjective so we filed this preliminary injunction. We had Excellent solit- neuropsychologist come out and perform Neuroscience on eight of our named plaintiffs and they found devastating impacts In our case. We don't have to say that it's because of the of the lead. It could because of the trauma that's related to the leg by we know that our neuropsychological evaluation is what really gets into targeting. What cognitive functions have been impacted? That's important what you said there that not only Perhaps the direct causation. AUSE ation of What we're saying the neurological changes in the children? But they were all of these other factors that are related to the lead being in the water as you said the emotional emotional Impacts as well yes there is some assessments done of adults and Flint and a finding of PTSD. We needed to make sure that we filed this lawsuit to tell the families of Flint. We see you. We validate what you're seeing in your children and we're GonNa make sure that the school district but more importantly the genesee intermediate media school district and the State of Michigan through the Michigan Department of Education. Sans what resources are needed for. What the state inflicted upon these families? I want to ask you more about that. Because as I mentioned earlier flint schools were strapped for cash the city in general has seen a major decline over the last few decades And since this water crisis the school district has had to lay off staff and divert funds from general education programs to this growing special needs population. Shen actually says it. It's argued that they're that they're doing the best that they can. They've said that in the past. But this begs a larger question that you sort of touched touched on. Is this a bigger issue that that perhaps federal intervention is needed. Here is a much bigger issue than what the flint community schools and the superintendent Tawab at the time he went before a Congressional hearing panel and told them that we would need additional supports for special education. And it hasn't come through the state hasn't come through the county and it hasn't come through the feds and what we're enforcing in this lawsuit. In Federal Court is a federal entitlement statute that children are identified and disability related needs are provided with accommodations and services so that they can access a quality education Jessica Asoka all five of your children received the screening and evaluation for special education as you mentioned are they in special programs within the in the schools that they're in I. I know that there at various places throughout flint. The only special program that in any of my children are in is the four year old. And I'm kind of love disgusted because I'm feeling like is there some sort of plan to create monster that you can leg hunt and if you know that led affects in in this this way you're putting them out because okay. There's nothing else if you do with them. You have a class that you need to teach so then you have parents pulling their kids out of school in trying to do online home tutoring yeah. Yeah there's been a there's been actually a spike in in home schooling and flint. But one thing I I just WanNa get from you Jessica particular you were born and raised in Flint. This is your home. I assume this is part of the reason. Why you're staying there despite all of this What is your call to action? It's now going to the courts but really you want to continue continued to to keep flint is your home and have your children thrive there. Yes my call to action is if you have the privilege and you have the knowledge about the workings of the school system and you run into a parent or you see a parent or a child. That needs. Help advocate advocate for them and we hope that the cure to fix this problem will come in our time. It's not just to help the future because we need help. Now let's Jessica Gutierrez Education Attorney. Kristen totten with the ACLU of Michigan. Thank you both for taking the time to shed light on this very importance Doc You want twenty twenty vision cholesterol under two hundred blood pressure around one. Twenty over eighty and temperature will that little marker Parker on the old mercury thermometer says it all ninety eight point six except that nearly one hundred seventy years after that was determined to be the norm. Scientists say it's lower lower. Now we know our bodies our little engines with cells turning food into energy creating heat and temperature. But what does it mean that it's lower. The new study from researchers occurs at Stanford Medical School is called decreasing human body temperature in the United States since the industrial revolution researcher. Catherine lay joins us now and debt-related. What's the new finding ninety eight point six two high and we think that the average normal human body temperature is closer to ninety seven point five but let's back up? How did we determine that the temperature for a well-functioning engine should be ninety eight point six? That was determined in eighteen. Fifty one a German physician position called Carl Wunderlich measured millions of temperature measurements from twenty-five thousand patients. And that's how he came up with ninety eight point point six so that population in an era where people were really quite different. That was a lot of infection in the population like tobacco. Syphilis listen syphilis and Perry Dot Davis Lots of chronic inflammation That may well have we think influence the normal body temperature of that era meaning meaning what people were having to fight off more infections. They might have just run a little hotter. Yes well we know that since then. Our standard of living has increased dramatically medically economic development changes in hygiene. We've taken all sorts of infections away. Yeah well and we've also made it these year for us to fight them. We have heating. We have air conditioning. The body doesn't have to do as much. That's absolutely right. We know that we spend a lot of time trying to keep our core temperature temperature the same in extremes of heat and cold and in the eighteen fifty s the houses were rarely heated by the nineteen twenties. We had had lots of Heating and then we've had cooling coming through and more recently so the amount of time that our buddies have to spend outside of a pretty narrow band where we don't have to use energy to stay at the right temperature has increased a lot. Well in continuing with your research. What data did you look at to come to the conclusion that it's it's our average temperatures lower? We had readings from the pension records of civil war veterans starting in the eighteen sixties all the way through one thousand nine hundred forty. We looked at a data collected by the CDC in the early Seventies. And then we had data here from Stanford from the two thousand seven to two thousand seventeen and overall we found that the temperatures of the civil war veterans higher than the measurements taken from the nineteen seventies an intern. Those measurements were higher than those collected. In the two thousand and two things were really striking one the amount of change across that time period and the fact that the temperature is has continues continues to decline at the same rate across that time period. Talk about the role of Anti inflammatories. In maybe reducing our temperatures so their our goal is to reduce inflammation so we have aspirin and Stanton's and non-steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drugs and decreasing inflammation is associated with reducing temperature richer and these are drugs like ibuprofen generic form of advil. Motrin does this mean that overall because our temperatures are a little bit lower we you're healthier. We believe that that's the case. We don't know that body temperature really matters as a measure of wellness on an individual level. We don't even know. Oh what average temperature means for a population We do not for example that temperature on average is higher in women than in men that older people are cooler than younger people that temperature increases with your weight and that does a huge variation across the day right. It's interesting interesting because I've always had a lower temperature so I've always known that if I am up at ninety eight point six I might have a slight fever. So that's true right. I mean everybody. Nobody has to know what their baseline is on. That's that's exactly right. If you're an elderly person making morning visit to a doctor's office complaining of illness with a temperature of ninety eight point six then we really have to think what that means. It's not normal for an elderly person to have that temperature so early in in the day and so we really should start thinking about normal temperature on an individual level based on age and sex time day height weight. Yeah well and because we read that in early in the morning we haven't warmed up yet so all of our temperatures are a little bit lower. It's really fascinating. Kids are GonNa have a field day with this announcing to say you don't have a fever or go to school really I do. Because they have lower temperature I think that's That's some of the work that needs to be done right. Actually generating adding the values for normal temperatures for our individual age and sex height weight time of Day That Stanford Researcher Catherine Lay one of the authors of a new study showing the average human temperature the norm as it was called no longer ninety eight point six. It's been falling since the industrial revolution. And right now it is drum roll. Ninety seven point five. Kathryn thanks so much UH and Tanya. I had my temperature taken recently with one of those fancy doctors things and it was ninety six degrees. I'm so glad to hear you know like I'm not dead. That's right just know your baseline that's the important takeaway. This is going to work into all the arguments over the The the Thermostat in offices production of N Vr. I'm Robin Young. I'm Tanya Moseley. This is here

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Feeding Body, Heart, Mind, SOUL

The Food Disruptors

41:54 min | 1 year ago

Feeding Body, Heart, Mind, SOUL

"Hello and welcome to the food. Disruptors, the podcast, where capitalism meets America's food culture. I'm teary sobriety on and together with my co host Rettig Lawrence. We delve into the stories of the big personalities who have shaped our food system. And what why and how we eat today for better and for worse. And we look to the future through interviews with today's food disruptors who even as we speak, but determining everybody's nourishment in health as well as the health of the planet in years to come. Today's episode is a treat for me. I'm sharing with you a conversation. I had with my good friend and source of inspiration genie Rosner, founder of soul food, salon in my hometown genius. A thought leader who cares deeply about nutrition as a key to living a healthy and fulfilling life, she is a quintessential tastes maker who is building an ever-growing community gathering people who not only want to talk about the best ways forward with our food system, but who wants to make positive changes in their own lives. And in the world, the soul in soul food, salon stands for seasonal organic unprocessed local. I'll let genie take it from there. So I started soul food salon about five plus years ago. So I am actually a pediatric anesthesiologist I worked at Stanford hospital for about twenty years. And then when my son was in fifth grade, which was eight plus years ago. I started teaching health and wellness with the focus on nutrition in his thence fifth grade science class, and I really loved that. I've always been into health and wellness. But getting the opportunity to teach was really fun. And I didn't really know a lot like a lot of the science. So I had to learn it to teach it, and I did it for that year. And then I left the world of anesthesia, and and now still teaching so that was about a eight years ago, and I kind of teach throughout my community. I still teach at the same school about eight lessons a year and about five years ago. I had the idea of starting soul food salon and essentially my goal and my mission is to educate and empower us to be healthier. And I don't have a particular platform with. I guess the biggest focus is on nutrition. However, it's all really just a lot of different aspects of health. So it could be really just healthy lifestyle right healthy living, and of course, with disrupters will zero in on the food part of that. But before we do tell me, and I honestly don't know this. You know, you said you've always been into. Wellness and living a healthy lifestyle. Well, I don't think that many people can say that the always have been. So what tell me about your background, even before you became a doctor. What really gave you that interest in being healthy? Well, I grew up in Miami, Florida. I don't know maybe just been an outside all the time. I was always pretty athletic. So I always did sports and whatnot in college. I ran with my friend. And I thought I was eating healthy. However, I went to school in New Orleans, and as, you know, probably Popeye's fried chicken New Orleans, and so we we occasionally indulged, and then I went to medical school. And unfortunately, when I was in medical school. I got the requisite twenty hours of nutrition education, which was basically the biochemical pathway of how fats and carbohydrates are metabolize. But not what fats or carbohydrates to eat. We really just did not get a clue. Clinical correlation with it. Before for us zip on from clinical correlation. You mean that there was no real life connection for doctors painting. There was zero zero. And so I had to learn that. And that's you know, I guess I thought I was eating healthy. So maybe I wasn't always into health and wellness because in retrospect when I think back to what I was eating. It wasn't perhaps the healthiest now that I've been on this kind of health and wellness nutrition crusade what I've learned I'm trying to apply to my life. So for example, I really learned a lot about my ingredient lists, and I then went into my pantry and purged a lot of things that were in my pantry like, for example, Antrim pancakes, there was in my pantry. And I think the first or second ingredient on their ingredient list is high fructose corn syrup, and so I throw it away because that's just a real having. High fructose corn syrup in a food product is just a marker for a very high. Highly processed item. And I was really yeah. Really aiming more for less processed food so through it away. And then my kids who were bit younger at the time. He they all balked at me and said, I'm not gonna eat pancakes anymore, and I said, well, okay, no worries and I bought maple syrup, and they still eat pancakes, and they use the maple syrup. So I unfortunately had kind of metro fit my pantry. Whereas I know a lot of younger parents if you learn some of this material now or you live this kind of life. Now, you can you can teach your kids how to be more healthy will, you know? That's I'm glad you brought up aunt Jemima because I wanted to and I should have introduced you as what at the food. Just ruptures we consider to be a taste maker. And it tastes maker in the context of our food system is someone who seeks to cause cultural change through food. Nutrition and through building community around certain concepts of food and nutrition. And it's been in the history of the American food system, really since we had a food system as you know, as far back as the eighteen twenties. There were people who were advocating for certain ways to eat. We at one of the soul food salons talked about Lydia, Mariah child who was a taste maker, and and advocate herself for not being a food waster, which I know is that a subject you've had a lot to do with with soul food salon. So as head of sulfates Lon, you certainly are taste maker. But I was reflecting on that as Jove down here. And I thought you know, what is it that drives people to seek cultural change in our food system now whereas in the. Twentieth century. I think that most of us at least right up until perhaps the cultural revolution of nineteen sixties. Certainly my mother and her parents before her we're willing to hand off the notion of being a taste maker in our food system to corporations, and if Kellogg's cereals said, it was healthy, you were absolutely willing to buy into that. And if you know swift meets said that this is the proper way to dress and purchase your meat until well with the caveat of the jungle and the Chicago stockyards scandals people were willing to believe that the labels and the marketing of big corporations, which told us how to eat that. Yes. Pancakes, not good without anti. To my and that's sort of what get lodged in our consciousness. So what has changed now that an institution, and I am going to call it an institution because you've built it into that something like soul food, salon is really gaining momentum gathering more and more adherents. Why? Now, just it's ripe for that. There's a real big push right now for maybe perhaps even growing your own food and eating more whole food, less processed food. And hopefully, it's physicians that are being better educated sharing that knowledge with their patients, perhaps it's the the obesity epidemic that we have and the diabet- diabetes epidemic that we have. And you know, you know, you have to you don't have to look very far to realize why we have so many chronic diseases now. And I think a lot of it is linked to our diet and to our lifestyles, and yeah, so I think perhaps it's kind of a conglo. Of all of those issues. It seems to me that the obesity crisis which really started back in the seventies. When the USDA recommended that we put carbohydrates as a major portion of our diets and eat less meat in their food pyramid and reduced fats of all sorts and really food companies, then just to keep kids very palatable for people replaced much of the fat in food with more and more sugar and high fructose corn syrup because it was less expensive for the processing, and you can track as, you know, well, the growth of obesity, especially among children just tracks right along with carbohydrate consumption and reduction in healthy fats and proteins in people's diets. Fortunately, I think it. It did peak will let's hope it's peaked I'm knocking on wood here maybe about four years ago four or five years ago, and the public consciousness has now been raised to a point where people are saying, yes, this is a huge crisis. What can we do? So tell about soul food salon. What some of the things you offer participants that answer the question. What can we do about these difficulties in our food system? So essentially, the model that I have created is we have events once a month. And I tried to alternate between talks like more didactic talk. That's pretty informal. However, people can interact and ask questions of whatever expert. So the experts that come in do the presentations are I've a big resource at Stanford. So a lot of physicians from Stanford or PHD's some people have written books just a variety of people have spoken. And then I alternate those talks with cooking events in my kitchen. So it's not. Only educating them on what to do. But actually like the real how to which is really an important concept for me. I don't want someone to leave my events kind of with this concept of something that's important to institute in their life. But they don't know how to do it. So I always want them to go home with a Tako message or take home strategy. So we do these events. Some of them are videotaped, and I have a YouTube channel everything that I have is soul food slot SOU L food salon, and you can dot com dot com is my website. And then you can look at it on YouTube and Instagram Facebook. I also have something that I started a couple years ago, and I call it soulful insights, and that's essentially a health and wellness newsletter post that we put out a couple times a month two to three times a month. And it's a very similar format to what the events are like, and we address a variety of topics. We just had one that came out all about sleep apnea and the one before that was about Kris. Schiffer's vegetables and the one before that was about glaucoma. So you can see there's a variety of topics, and if you're interested in being part of that as well, you can just go to my website, and there's different pop-ups where you could subscribe to the soulful insights newsletter if you want, and the my also have something I call food challenge, which I'm doing which. Yeah. Go ahead talk about the food challenge. Okay. So I'm doing I'm doing a food challenge. I call it food challenge. Twenty nineteen and essentially I send out an Email to those that have subscribed to be on the list. So there's like maybe over two hundred people on the list right now. So I sent out an Email about on Friday mornings with this said seasonal ingredient for the week and the intention is to educate them about the ingredients. So the current ingredient is garlic, and I do a little blurb about what you know, where garlic is found some of the health benefits that you get from garlic. How you would select it and store it, and I'm and I'm including a recipe suggestion as well. So my goal is to educate us and inspire us to. To try something new try new ingredient get in the kitchen with your family, perhaps and cook with them, and then share it so Superfund challenge and talk a little bit about season -ality as a guiding principle. Okay. So yeah. So we're in California. I know we're spoiled, and we're very very grateful and fortunate. However, so we have seasonal produce all year long. So I am at hair it to certain harvesting guidelines of what fruits and vegetables are seasonal for right now in February in California. So if you subscribe to this and you live somewhere else, it might not be as seasonal in your neighborhood. But but even if it seasonal in California, then it can still be shipped in this season to other markets with less processing and less storage. Because it's coming out of the fields here. You're right. We are super spoiled here. Right. And why is season -ality? A good nutritional principal. Well, when you pick a freighter vegetable off the vine or from the ground, and you eat it right away. It's at its highest peak of nutritional value. So let's say you get strawberries, so right now, strawberries and berries are not in season in California. But if we were to get them, they probably have to come. I think from South America. So those that produce gets picked in South America today gets put in a bushels gets on a plane ends up in California, four five days later and ends up in our market two days after that we take it in our in our home. So it's already been it was harvested seven days ago. The Mitchell value has decreased throughout that whole process. So in in times when let's say I do want berries right now in California, and it's not a seasonal produce. I would perhaps buy frozen frozen bag of strawberries or berries and use those because frozen fruit is picked at its peak and that flash frozen and. Yeah. So if you eat frozen fruit, you're eating highest nutritional peak and probably the same thing for fish as well. If it's flash frozen on a boat. It may have a higher nutritional content, then fish that is quote unquote, fresh, but as been galumph delong and in a truck and sitting in the butcher's case for maybe even more than a couple days. The the other thing about this season -ality is just the tremendous energy and environmental impact of if I were to get those strawberries, for example, from South America, just the energy resources that it would take for me to get those strawberries here is huge. And that's why I would have to if I did buy strawberries right now in California, I'd pay a lot of money also. So I wait for the summer for when strawberry. And that's why I look forward to the seasons because I look forward to changing up my diet. Well, I'm going. Challenge you with the question that I have asked myself and have no adequate answer for and that is one of one of your titular notions is unprocessed food and unprocessed food. If it's seasonal is at its peak nutritional value, but I find that there is something of a conflict with avoiding food waste, for instance. If. Food is can't then it's highly processed some canning methods are more process intensive than others, but it reduces certainly the carbon footprint of freezing. It it does not reduce the carbon footprint of shipping necessarily because cans way a lot. So how do you how do you parcel of that is it does reduce food waste because sometimes the less beautiful fruits and vegetables are canned and there's still have high nutritional content, but they're not at the peak of the harvest they're stored in a can so I guess the way I would answer that as the goal is to eat more whole food more close to its natural source from nature more fruits, vegetables, whole, grains, nuts and seeds. And then I guess the definition that I would use more for processing is the addition of. Of stuff. So the addition of that's an added added sweeteners, added preservatives, added anything that has multiple syllables that you cannot pronounce that is a Mark of a highly processed item. So that's perhaps high look at it. So for example, like if I do a whole lesson with my students all about understanding ingredient list and my goal is one of my messages, try to eat something. So if you buy something that is made. In fact, that's not a whole fruits vegetables whole grain. It's an package and anytime you have a packaged item. It's required to have a nutrition fact label and an ingredient list, and so it's really important to pay attention to both of those so one one item that I always talk with my students about is try to have your ingredient list be short. So the goal is for the list to be like five or six items at most and be able to pronounce them and realize it like the first or second item that's listed on the list is the makeup the. Highest composition of that product. So you don't want sugar. High fructose corn syrup, ideally, maybe even in the product, but not in one of the first or second spots. So one of the exercises that we do sometimes we evaluate different food items. So one of them being a granola bar, so granola bars often have a really long ingredient list, but many of the ingredients on those lists are different nuts and seeds. Right. So you know, there's some there's a caveat to it. So I think I again, I think just my definition of more processed is just something that is I have this vision of this person in a lab with a white lab jacket on with goggles on and beakers boiling over with different substances and honored Poindexter, right? And just totally manipulated in our food supply and adding different things. So that we taste it. And we liked the way it tastes. And we want more of its got more sugar. It's got more salt and more fat. And it's just somebody that that's that to me is that marker of a highly processed item. I think that is a great way to discuss processing because you know, even just cooking. Something actually is a form. Of processing. But the addition of foreign ingredients is a great way to think about whether or not a food is highly processed now, you have a really interesting background as far as ingredients in processed foods. And you did an amazing project talk about that a little bit. Okay. So when I left anesthesia, so this was in twenty eleven I learned about a company called revolution foods, and they're based here out in California out of Oakland to girls at started it, and essentially they think right now probably provide school lunches to about one hundred thousand schools all the way from California to New York, and they approached me and asked me if I would research their list of unacceptable ingredients, which they don't put in their food items. So essentially, and I didn't know this, but whole foods has this list. There's maybe seventy eight or eighty ingredients on this list and it ranges from Bremen aided. Flower to transfat two different dies, two different artificial sweeteners. Just a plethora of things that whole foods does not allow being in any of their food products being sold in their store and so- revolution. Foods abided by that list. There the project they want me to do was to research all those seventy eight or eighty ingredients and kind of do a yea or nay like is it okay to use this product. Is it not okay? And why what's the science behind it? And I believe their intention was we'll not only to give valid validity to what they were putting out in their and their product. But you why they were doing it. Right. And also, I think because maybe their product costs a little bit more than the next lunch food purveyor. They wanted to be able to go to the superintendent say, you know, we don't have trans fat. We don't have artificial dyes. And that's why it costs a dollar more per item. It's and do you produced. This giant Thome that deconstructed every one of these eighty. Ingredients from a scientific standpoint. And also from a physiological standpoint, it's the effect of these ingredients in their chemical components on humans. It was an amazing an amazing production. Yeah, it was challenging and I produced what I could based upon the science. That was available to me. I learned a tremendous amount about our food supply, which I did not know very much about. I learned a lot about the food and Drug administration. I learned about how additives are described and what constitutes grass, I don't know. If you guys know tell tell our listeners what the heck is G R A S. So what what grasses it stands for generally recognized as safe? And so essentially, it's an item that has been in our food supply or actually can be introduced into our food supply by a food company, and they should show. Evidence that it has been safe. They will if they are challenged to do. So exactly. So that's the caveat right there. They could actually apply to be considered. Like, let's say stevia, for example, wanted to be used. Let's say cherry os wanted to start putting stevia in their hunting nut Cheerios. Well, they it would be prudent for Cheerios to do a lot of studies. Make sure first of all if it's palatable make sure that it safe make sure the amount that they're putting in is safe amount. And then they could essentially introduce it into the food supply. And then if a problem occurs and someone. Notifies the FDA then the FDA can maybe do some studies and retract Cheerios and the so it's better for the food manufacturers to actually do the do the arduous studies to really determine if the items are safe, but like sugar is considered grass. I think transfat it's at one point was considered grass. So it's a pretty nebulous concept. So I ended up when I was doing this project talk to different attorneys and lobby- lobbyists that are in in Washington for the FDA. It's really confusing. It's super confusing, and it's also very scary because grass wasn't instituted as a legislative concept or regulatory concept until what the late nineteen thirties. I think maybe the early forties and anything that was put in food up to that moment was generally recognized as safe at there was all kinds of weird. Chemicals going in specially post World War One and post World War Two when the powers that be had engineered lots of different chemicals for many different uses not all of them. Well, not all of them having anything to do with nutrition and many of them entered the food supply, and they were in the food supply when this law went into effect, and they were grandfathered right as as recognized as safe. So God knows some of that stuff is is still floating around in our food system. And I think the other thing that just really alarmed me in this working through this project is just perhaps how unsafe our food supply is. And I hate to say it. But I don't know if the FDA is really has our back one hundred percent, there's a lot of lobby groups that push them to do different things. And that's a whole nother topic. That is that is a very big topic. But I think that is why we need bottom up community. Given efforts like soul food salon so sofa salon is based here in your hometown. But do you expect to have ripple effects into the broader world? I mean, I hope it does. So each year, I affiliate with either a nonprofit or a local entity. So essentially the model for my events are. I don't ask anybody to make any form of payment to come to the events. However, whoever I partner with for the year, I asked him to make donations to that partnership. So we've partnered with edible schoolyard project the first year currently were partnered with food core. And essentially they're present in seventeen states, and I believe like three hundred sixty five at needs schools. What they do is they place AmeriCorps service members in these schools for about a year, and what they do in the school is they educate the students on healthy eating, and they expose them to new fruits and vegetables, and they do different experiments with them and cook with them. And if the. School has a school guard, and they maintain the garden, and they get the kids out in the garden and playing in the soil and harness the kids who don't have that opportunity. Otherwise, correct. And so it's really it's opening their eyes to a whole world that perhaps there that they don't have. And you know, they also the AmeriCorps members they go and help in the cafeteria with the lunch ladies, and they bring different meal suggestions and menu suggestions to them. So that's who we are partnered with currently that's a huge ripple effect and edible gardens edible schoolyard, edibles schoolyards. That was well that was started with Alice waters, probably twenty eight years ago now in Berkeley, and she had this vision. There is a middle school there. Martin Luther King middle school that the schools should have been condemned. But it wasn't and half the school was like unoccupied, and she would walk by there every on her way to shape an ISA restaurant, and they have this big they had this big asphalt parking area. Sensually that wasn't even. Being used and she had this vision to create a school guard in there. And that's what she did it created this amazing garden, and they built some ancillary structures on that property and now the school is thriving. It's basically the template for edible education, and they have a plethora of nutrition education online that's free, and it's really just fascinating. So that's that was my initial partner, and it's so important to start with children. And so the hope that this next generation that we're bringing up will actually have a really different concept of nutrition and our food system. I know that I did going up when everything was packaged and convenient in that was that was the guiding notion, and that's interesting that you say that so I know that they have these certain they have these days in the edible schoolyard project, where it's like family day, and they, you know, the students invite their parents and their grandparents to come. And they all cook together and their students show, the parents what they're making in how to make different things. And so basically, you know, the younger generation teaching the older generation, which is which is amazing which is bottom up cultural change. And that's what I think is needed to rectify some of the big problems with our food system. Tell me though, about the doctors what is the teaching kitchen at Stanford medical school? And why is it necessary? Don't doctors. No, well, you said you didn't win when you were in medical school. But I guess I expect that the next generation to be more enlightened. So, unfortunately, it's still not a prime concern and so nutrition. Yeah. Unfortunately, I mean, nutrition classes are just really not emphasized in medical school. I believe the tide is turning and it is changing. I mean, I know for fact that like cardiology fellowships, so that's like a three year training. Or two or three year training beyond internal medicine fellowships beyond internal medicine residencies, and they get zero nutrition cardiology. Yes, how so. So that that is the truth. And so, you know, you you have patients that have heart disease or cardiovascular disease, and you would hope that the doctor would would hopefully they they educated over time on their own, I guess, but they're not having any formal didactic education, and there's no educational requirement. At this point for the cardiac fellowships for them to learn nutrition, these poor young doctors, they're so overworked, they probably don't have the chance to eat very healthily themselves. So what did you decide along with some other enlightened people needed to be done? So so there's this core started at Stanford. It's it was going. I think they've had three sessions if our three quarters I got in on the second quarter. So we basically helped fund soul foods Lon helped fund the second and third quarters that were taught at the teaching kitchen core. So essentially, it's it's taught by two. Two main people who are both MD's and shafts, and it's taught to medical students. Mainly I believe second year medical students. It's an elective. So it's not part of Stanford's curriculum. So that hence the reason why right now, I don't believe there is funding for the class. So it's not part of the school's curriculum. It is not unfortunately. So those few that got access to the class. Now, they know how to cook fruits and vegetables and grains in different protein. And so they can make reasonable suggestions to their patients who need practical advice. Exactly. I mean, I think as a physician you can't you can't. I mean, the kind of like the trite answer to that physicians often stated their patients eat eat a well-balanced diet. Well, what does that exactly mean? It's very nejra. And how do you do it? And so, you know, as a physician if you've never roasted by nut squash. You're probably not going to be able to recommend that to your patients. And it's important to eat better net squash. If it's a seasonal produce at the time and just all the health benefits from that particular item is huge. But it's important. Also, it has a lot of precursor vitamin a and vitamin A is a fat soluble vitamin you need oil with it. So you need to have healthy fats to cook with it. So there's a lot of is a healthy fat that when eats. I mean, I I'm sure most doctors will not most doctors so many doctors could not answer that right? Well, a healthy fats. The main healthiest fats would be mega three fats that are fish sources. So salmon mackerel anchovies sardines, then there's a mega three fats that are plant sources. So that's walnuts flax seeds, and then the next one would probably be monounsaturated fats, which is olive olive oil and then going down the line to to saturated fats, which you need to moderate in probably have less of. And then the very most harm. Fat is trans fats, which was a man-made item that was made in the nineteen forties. And it was added to our food supply to prolong the shelf life of twinkies and Chris oil just to increase the things could stay on the shelf and the grocery store for years and because of the hydrogenated oils that were put in those items. Well, they in the nineteen nineties. They determine that trans fat or these hydrogenated oils were causing wreaking havoc on our cardiovascular system with cholesterol levels. And thankfully, I believe right now, it's pretty much banned from our food supply. But it's still there. So if you see something that says transfat on your food and your nutrition fact label or you see something on your ingredient list anything partially hydrogenated oils. That's a marker of just a very bad sensually poison. Yes. As as are, you know? You know, anything particularly sugars taken in immoderate amounts, and they these kinds of will certainly sugar leads to systemic inflammation, which now has been discovered can lead to cardiovascular disease, and this is an cancers and obese and just a plethora like inflammation in your body. That's almost unknown or chronic can lead to all disastrous chronic diseases, many of soul food salons events. Not only teach about nutrition, but teach about other pathways to wellness that actually reduce inflammation, amazingly things like meditation things like building community with other people. What have been some of your most powerful soul food, salon events, the ones that stick with you that you think have the greatest potential to rip. Out and help change the health and wellness of the very big community at large in America. One of my favorites was I'm David bow. And you could see this. You can watch it on my YouTube channel, he did a talk about four rules to live your life, and he sat in my living room and David is just a very wise. Funny. Amazing storyteller. I was there. He has. And he just he shared his life's experiences. He talked about different quotes that were important in different people that he's interacted with. And you know, like his main message like number one on his list is like show up be present. And that's a big emphasis that we that. We really try to do in in many of the either the events or the soulful insights that we write about with the mindfulness is just really trying to be present in the moment and the meditation aspect of that just all the health benefits of that. So I would say David's one of my favorites. Another favourite was Michelle Hauser says she's one of the MD chefs she's got other letters behind her name beyond those and she did a salon. We did not have it videotape but her PowerPoint and whatnot. And and recipes are on my website, which we will have a link to on the food disruptors dot com. We'll have links to Seoul, foods lawn and soulful insights and great. Yes. So Michelle talked about just health and diet. And and how how eating a more healthy diet leads to better health and discuss that I say I've learned something from all of my events. I've liked them. All actually, they've only been a few that have been a little bit. Maybe too technical that. I'm learning. I'm never I've never done anything like that. And I guess that's perhaps maybe one more thing. I should share is. But you know, when I was in this might be something, maybe inspiring, perhaps or motivating for other medical people. But you know, when I. Was an undergrad. I was a biology minor actually was a political science major. But I was on the track to go to medical school. I was pre med then I went to medical school. Then I did my residency and then fellowship in Pedes anesthesia, but I was constantly kind of moving toward a goal. And then I worked as an anesthesiologist in a hospital, and my job was very structured every patient was different. My days were different. But there was structure and kind of framework at a template behind what I was doing and ever since I've been doing what I do now. So I say my life was as a physician was pretty pretty rigid almost well there was a structure behind it. And now what I'm doing with soul food salon and my teaching at the different schools. It's very unstructured. It's all organically, evolved, any volving. And I constantly learn from you Theresa and we feed off each other. And she'll teach me something, and I'll she'll introduce a topic to me or introduce me to someone that perhaps could be a presenter for me or right for me. So Theresa's written for me for what about why meet she wrote a post for soulful insight? So you can take a look at that. But I got on the website to. Yeah. But so I just I've really enjoyed my transition to what I'm doing. And I think having a medical background gave me credibility. And I love what I'm doing. I don't necessarily miss my life as an anesthesiologist. It was pretty stressful. And what I kinda say also about that is as an anesthesiologist if any of you have ever had surgery or needed to meet with amnesties geologist, our biggest concern was when did you eat and drink? Oh, wow. Two or did you eat drink? It was like a yes or no question it from the doctor's point of view. Right. So it was a yes or no question. Did you did you drink? And now my question is what did you eat, and what did you drink? So I'm more interested in the quality, and your choices that you're making. We'll you've described it as as a much more holistic way of. Approach approaching life. And while you were talking about some of your favorite salons. I was thinking of some of mine, and I have loved the ones that you had one on the gut Buyum, and you had you had an amazing one on soil, and what struck me was really very similar those two media are in our world. And as we get more mindful both of what we're doing in any given moment, we become more mindful of what we're eating and where that food is coming from and how it really got to us. And I think that is a very hopeful way of looking at how soul food salon and other organizations like that can actually begin to effect real change in our food system and keep the environment from being destroyed by heavily fertilize. Is and and pesticide carpeted mono crops that really destroy the soil, which is a precious resource that needs replenishing and so's people begin to look for healthier ways to nourish ourselves. I think we do even without knowing that we are led to think about more about oh is this a healthy place for plants to grow. Or is this a healthy way for food to come to us? So I have great optimism about the potential of Sophie so on. Thank you so much for doing. So it's my pleasure. I love it. I'm going to keep doing it. So keep coming Leckie as and for those of you who are not close enough to join the events, we will post these incredibly rich links that Jeannie has on her website, and you can. Through her website and get to them and the material there is so enlivening that that you'll love checking it out said thank you Jeanie for joining us on the disrupters. Thank you for having me. Should it? Visit our website the food disrupt dot com for our show notes. Great visuals and deeper dives we love hearing from you. So feel free to comment and keep the conversation going as promised I've posted links to soul food salon and soulful insights, also in our show notes, you'll find a brief discussion on brass G R A S an acronym for generally regarded as safe the idea that a lot of what we eat in processed food is exempt from ingredient list requirements. Thanks for listening. The food. Disruptors is created written and hosted by Theresa Brown, coal hosted by Ruddick Lawrence website and tech support by Dan Curren, and is produced an edited by Charlene Goto of Goto productions if you like what you hear be sure and subscribe rate and comment to the show on apple podcasts or wherever you find your podcast media. Thanks for listening.

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#54  Patrick McKeown  The Oxygen Advantage

The Freedive Cafe Podcast

1:39:53 hr | 1 year ago

#54 Patrick McKeown The Oxygen Advantage

"Yeah. Welcome to the free death. Cafe episode. Fifty four with Patrick McEwen? My name is Danni. I'm the host of the free death. Cafe the free death. Cafe is a long form interview podcast that explores the back stories of the training the challenges and the combined wisdom and personal philosophies of the world's free divers. The website is to be found at free caffeine dot com. That's where all the episodes live and the show, notes and other information. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast if you don't wanna miss an episode do that on the website or through your favorite podcast application for your phone or tablets, the show is now also available on Spotify. For those of you who liked that apply and use it a lot. I received a number of messages this month. Informing me that there was a problem with Julia moose as first episode on Spotify that it was playing her sick episode. Instead, I don't have anything to do with Spotify or Google podcasts or apple podcasts. All that stuff is automated through my podcast. Hosting provider. So if you having any trouble with getting access to any of the episodes on the applications that use please just go to the website. And that's where you can find the most up to date versions of the podcast, if you're a big fan of the show and would like to show you appreciation, and I would love it. If you wanted to do that you can do that by making a small one time donation or even becoming a regular patron through the free. Dive cafe pitchy on page. Most fans Tuesday donate somewhere between one and ten dollars a month. And even the smallest of donations massively appreciated the podcast is made by myself alone on top of a not very well paying fulltime job. So the support of patrons makes a huge difference to the maintenance of this project, and if you'd like to find out about ways to help out a little you can see the options on the right hand side of the homepage free deaf, Kathy com or you can go directly to patriot. At patriot dot com slash free dab cafe and related to that. I have a little giveaway for you guys today. If you've been listening to the podcast for the last few episodes, you know, I've been promoting this book free diving by chemo, Latina, CMO Qura and arena sin. And and I have a few copies of the book. And what I'm gonna do is. I'm going to send them out to the first four people who make donation to the show or sign up for patriots. After this episode is published not I'm not asking you to donate any specific amounts. But bear in mind, I live in Taiwan, and I'll be posting the book to you. So please make donation that. You think is fitting a hope you know, what I mean by that. All you have to do is make a donation or sign up for repatriation, and I'll take a note of your name and get in touch with you. And I'll send the book straight out to you. If you want to find out more about the book or just pick up a copy of your own right now, you can do that at free dabbing book dotcom. Today's episode is also sponsored by continuum faints. I'm one hundred percent behind this MU upcoming. Brand of custom made by fans designed by strean competitive diver and spear fishermen, Danny Hearst. In fact, Danny doesn't just design them. He crafts them himself in his own workshop with his own hands. And it's possible to have these things made according to your exact specifications, Danny livery ges background engineering and mathematical modeling combined with his own skills and experiences a diver to produce these fins, and I think you'll be very very happy with a pair of your own. I'm not just saying this. I have two pairs two different. Stiffness is I'm using the softer ones for the long teaching days and the stiffer ones for my on training. And I love them to bits. If you want to grab a pair. You can do that through continuum fins dot com dot AU that C O N T. I N U M F I N S, fins dot com dot AU and free to have cafe listeners. Get ten percents author order, which is amazing. And if you live inside a stray Ilya, you'll additionally get free shipping on them. To which is even better just mentioned the free cafe in your correspondence with continuum fins and all will be taken care of. So today's episode features for the very first time against who is not a free diver against to his never free dived. And that's the direction that occasionally will be taking the show in. If it means that us free divers can learn something valuable or really make us, you know, interested or curious about our sport, I've admired the work and thinking of Patrick McCue in for many years, even since before free diving was a part of my life and occurred to me one day that Patrick has things to teach us, redivert ideas. We may never have encountered before breathing. Our daily breathing patterns, and how they're affecting our base levels of health and how without having that solid foundation for healthy, breathing and health. We may be making our free Devon progression. A lot more difficult than it has to be. So I reached out to Patrick and he was happy to come into. The cafe for chats for the past sixteen years. Patrick is being a functional breathing educator author who's taught children and adults. Simple and defective ways to adult functional breathing patterns. He's a Ted speaker and his work has touched. The lives of many thousands of people were as work has been published by leading publishing houses and Gooding HarperCollins. William Moro press read Buell Weiser's Sperling and Kupfer Kanchi publishing Japan and journal publications include the American journal of respiratory and critical care medicine and clinical otolaryngology, a mouthful that no wonder because these are deep and technical subjects. We explore this interview and learned a lot from Patrick here. And I hope you will too. By the way, Patrick's book that we talk about in this episode the oxygen advantage. It's a must read and you can get a free audiobook of that. If you go to audible dot com slash free debt cafe and sign up for a free thirty day. Try. While you won't pay anything, and you can cancel the membership at any time. If you catch my drift, the availability of I think, it's the availability of the the spook may be regional dependent. I'm not sure if you can get it in your country. I am for sure. But if you can't there are another one hundred thousand six to choose from. So it's a win win situation. All right Freda, Kathy family. Let's dive. Or let's get into Patrick welcome to the show. Thanks pleasure. To have you here. It's a bit of a wildcard having you far is freed. I've cafe Esco as far as I understand. You're not free divert trick me from wrong. No, no, not at all actual factor. Over little unfortunately about free diving. And so you might have to light me to the talk. Okay. That's, but we do have something in common is the connection with the breath. Yeah. The extremely rubbing up very close to the breath. I think is like put it. So you're not a feed ever, but your area of expertise is breathing potato methods. Working with things like exiled working with athletes. You know, a lot about oxygen carbon dioxide which to the main gases of concern for free divers will eventually see free compulsively apply. Some of your knowledge to our free diving training methodology and this is coming from. And why really wanted to get in touch with you talk to you is because free diving science is it's it's like, a jigsaw puzzle. It still has a lot of PC's that have to be put in. So our Jim there's a lot of different views and opinions about how to do things. But we don't have a really large of body of science in research to to give us a definite direction to go in when it comes to training. Sure, we know a lot. But if we can add just a little bit too today, perhaps than you know, that would be nice to. So before we get into the tricky stuff. Let's just find out about you, Patrick where you from. I live in Galway in the west coast of Ireland, and I'm not here from here originally originally from a town small town on the east coast violent code on Boeing contemplate on a move to by twenty years ago. So a lot of a lot of my work votes in a lot of travel. So basically is in Holland last weekend. Tomorrow flight to London do again after a fight Poland the weekend after flight to Los Angeles. So that brings me the Christmas. Yeah. So I just caught you good time then to home. Yeah. Sometimes it's hard to pin me down. Yet never been to to Galway here's beautiful. They're gonna good friend who's from Galway, and it's very rural. And traditionally Irish Ryan. Yeah. And it's lovely scenery. I think it's got a great five. The town is really nice. So, yeah, it's it's a small university town, but there's a great great atmosphere too. Nice. So I was watching your tedtalk earlier today as actually Ted Goldway and. You said something about your wife having to explain to people what you do for a living. Teach will had a brief which I thought was quite funny. So maybe I could explain for the listeners what exact date is that you do. And how did you find your way into this profession, and you know, it's very interesting. The whole concept of breathing even when I'm just gonna steer off topic just for a little to make. I remember I was I was a medical conference in Chicago. It's going back to two years ago. And we were talking about dysfunctional breathing patterns breathing patterns disorders on a medical professor, and he stood up. And he said that breathing is breathing. And I just wondered, you know, is this how breathing is considered in the medical world in the healthcare profession on if so it's really falling short of the Mark. So reading one of those things that's influenced by so many different factors and our modern way of living. Is going to have quite a profound impact on breathing. So I came across breathing per se primarily by accident. I add awesome. As a child, I always had pleasing. I didn't really cough, but I was always short of breath without than my sleep is affected. And the one thing about us miss if you have inflammation of your nose. Sorry, if you have inflammation of your lungs if you have airway, narrowing it travels up to your nose your nose, stuffy. And if your nose, stuffy are twice as likely to have sleep problems on because of stuff, you knows than I was a map Reiter because of now creating I was primarily using a Tabriz, and as a result, and I was more highly strong. I never put that connection together. And not you know, I was going to doctors for medication. Nobody would ever say to be Patrick three. Or knows am I had an operation on my nose in nineteen ninety four the surgeons afterwards never told me to reach for my nose. So I continued operating until about nineteen ninety seven ninety eight. I came across the simple NAR. About the work of a Russian doctor, and he said two things he said breath, Renault's knee said breed life. So I used his told exercise, which of course, is your listeners know is going to increase the in the blood, even though EMT's debate as to what's actually happening, but we can open up the upper Airways the nose. And we can relieve nasal congestion in minutes amd from holding the brats on I really do think it's the carbon dioxide that's that's doing the work there. But as you said, the signs in breathing hasn't really changed, and they're so much that we need to know here, you know, and so much we need to learn a now with the new concept of neuro plasticity in respiration. Again, that's around flee new failed under very little. You know, that's on a lot of a lot of the information that we're doing we're trying to we're trying to tag what's actually happening here. We know which works, but we don't always know why it works. So. Yeah. So I came across by accident. I applied to myself. And starting today's breath. I felt calmer mice leap was better. Maze. Ing reduced by. But it's not an exaggeration. But it certainly by sixty seventy percent within one week and totally change my life. You know, I'd spent four years studying a university of Dublin Trinity College in Dublin, and you know, that was my handed degree in economics and social sciences. So I stayed in corporate for couple of years afterwards. I said I want to to start teaching this. I went into my father-in-law. I was married. The time was on the twenties on said, I'm going to start teaching breathing. And I think he went why. So he was sinking his daughter is going to marry this no-hoper, that's that's going into this kind of left a failed and area. But you know, sometimes you have to rely on intuition. And in hindsight now were seventy years later. It was absolutely the best thing that I ever did. So. Was your own dysfunctional breathing patterns that yes lead you to discover these this profession in an all the possibilities are wrapped up in that. And not likely as there that it seems like there for people that do have these kinds of problems, and and as we'll find out later for many people they will have issues reading the not even aware of it sounds like often a whole of linked chain of issues the needs to be broken somewhere along the line in order to in order to relieve the suffering or improve the health. It's like this Donny, you can influence, you know, you can influence your blood circulation by changing your breath, you can influence your Airways. You can open them. Or if you're if you're not breathing properly your conclusion was to construct you can influence the amount of oxygen delivered to tissues organs, but what's more money breathing exercises that are at their they have it fundamentally wrong. You know, there's an idea that the harder. We breed the mortar we breed we're actually increasing oxygen delivery to the sales. But that's not correct. In a hard breathing for short term is fine doing short-term hyperventilation fine. But we need to make sure that people don't have the idea that this hard breathing is beneficial. I remember, you know, as I was highly stressed at per concentration on I went into one exam before an exam. This was in university. I took a walk for about five minutes on during that time. I was hard breathing on a ends up going into the exam. Dizzy, and of course, like I had disbelief that it was benefit to be fulfilling my lungs full of air taking it as much as possible without realizing oil during his causing blood vessels to the brain constrict. On your causing. Also, what's called a left shift of the oxygen global dissociation curve, and basically the blood is holding onto jn as opposed to releasing have. So there's ideas out there on the western world, everybody awry dis about breathing. Right. But some are not right. Yeah. You might be interested in to find out that I think. We're actually quite advanced as free diving educators are feed having kitchen systems is pretty clue on this actually. So it used to be that, you know, even know that long ago, but you'll be like five ten years ago, still quite common. Find specially top level competitive free divers just before they they dived the new some kind of hyperventilation exercise, right because sure sure yet you're you was that in your you filling up your body with as much as possible. And of course there. The qualitative experienced that there was less urge debris associated. Yes. Yeah. And then the then the signs stunning to are. We starting to catch up with science little bit. We found out that this was actually more dangerous and ineffective than anything else. Because we need the IRS degrees. We need writing levels of ceilings who to to India to us where we are in our during performance. Also, we also subsequently learned that less oxygen is really being delivered to the tissues when we do this. And we're increasing our heart rates. So the heart is using more oxygen save. So I think think we're kind of up to date with. With with quite a lot of those ideas. He at Yan, totally. I'm kinda talking about more is somebody going into another one to put kind of a constant yoga. But but I when I listen to how people are being trained in yoga, and ultimately, this is the foundation of breathing exercises. But whereas all gone wrong. You know, and you tons of people doing yoga thousands of people filling their lungs full of air, and they will carry that information true to everyday life yoga itself is up so wonderful. But I think we need to start taking breathing. And I think as you said, I think if we are to be teaching breathing we need to know disci- in the physiology behind it, we need to understand what is happening in terms of oxygen and carbon dioxide I was on. It is relatively simple. You know? Join normal blood oxygen say during normal breathing. Your blood oxygen saturation is almost fully loaded. And you. And you can measure your peripheral blood oxygen saturation by using simple. And you're looking for between ninety five ninety nine percent. Ninety eight percent of your auction is hired by hemoglobin as you probably know onto percent is carried directly dissolved in the blood if you'll hyperventilation you don't increase the S P O two which account increase the PO to which is the partial pressure of oxygen in the blood and that will influence the amount of oxygen. That's dissolved in the blood, but you might have oxygen dissolved in the blood is only two percent. So it will show a higher peo- too. Because the PO to the partial pressure of oxygen in the blood is dictated by the partial pressure of oxygen in the lungs, so outfielder appeal to will influence, arterial peo- too, but then it goes back down to carbon dioxide, you know, Turkey seconds of hard breathing will have the amount of CO two in the blood, thirty seconds and the biggest impact of heart breathing hop. Would it the first few seconds? So I know it's mcgarry back the think back in the nineteen eighties. He said for everyone millimeter job of CO two it reduces blood flow to brain by two percent. Now, we consider that normal arterial CO two forty millimeter of Margaret pressure. Thirty seconds of our breathing half stash which hours by twenty and for everyone millimeter drop of CO to reduce blood flow to two percent. It means that thirty seconds of hard breathing can reduce blood flow to the brain by up to forty percent. And you know, that's all simple simple stuff into two main things hopping there, we need to look at the functions off carbon dioxide one is the relaxed into reverse donator. It's also bronchodilator carbon dioxide plays a role as a conflict in the release of oxygen from the hemoglobin. So we said that oxygen is mainly in the blood latched onto our card by hemoglobin to how do we get? How do we get hemoglobin to release? Oxygen from the blood to the sounds would one of the factors. There's carbon dioxide ready for breathing. Too hard. We're getting rid of too much CO two from the lungs disinterred, reducing the blood reducing into tissues reducing into salads on AmEx Jainism, so readily released. So CO two our friend, basically, it's. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. And you know, so what you're saying there about cultural idea, especially something that exposed to a lot of do things like go to yoga classes, or some other kind of exercise based classes, and I just like to just talk a little bit about that. Because. I was taught a pronto Yama by a particular teacher Gregor Maala pretty much traditional practice, the weights taught and was quite funny. But that is that the the way you start to learn ama- traditionally imprint immunes extension of the breath. So you start with a certain length of inhalation on a certain length of exhibition, and that's all you do start with. So you just breathing through your nose for certain amount of time the excellent for certain amount of time. So you do this actually to the point where you start to feel very very small urged brief. Yes. And then you would you would repeat that the length of time until you start to feel comfortable with it. And then you would increase the length of the inhalations excellence by one second and UBS again, you would be experienced a very small or to brief. So what they were doing your. Traditionally exactly what you're talking about. It's his sleep. Allowing CO to build up in the system. He had other than overloading the CO two am it's always something that people ask me is that how long should I breathe or how many seconds should I take breath in for money seconds should have breath for now, we do have ratio of the Bretton to the breath out usually the Braxton to the breath, Avs one to one point five during rest, but I think it can be a narrower in timing the breath because if I asked somebody take a breath in for say sickens, Anna breath for six seconds, and that would have a response rate of fibrous per minute. You could avoid individual who would breathe very very likely over that six seconds or you could have another individual who take maximum flation off their loans, six seconds. So the timing is the same, but the volume that each person's taken is different. So I know what I'm talking with people which Oakham saying, you know, all of your exercise our exit. Int- and they're on the are tremendous terms of restricting the brat different exercises, stretching excetera. But when you're doing breathing exercise to breed subtle to really slow down the Brett onto slow down, the branch home was you know, the fine hairs would into nostrils do not move. Yeah. So you can do your six second. Braxton's brazen, but it's really light breath over six seconds. And then of course, you have a really natural relaxed X Latian ham, and even if you were to look at heart rate for your Bessie, ultimately, it's about getting the response rate down to six per minute. And that would be very good like a good heart. Very busy is a very good indicator of good heads, and that can be influenced to our breathing. What dysfunctional breathing patterns into western world. It's it's in the literature affects about nine point five percent of the population. But it's really underestimated money people. They have respirate respond to raise to plus fifteen Brett's. Fifteen bytes per minute, wait, which essences too high. And I want to do is, you know, Mark with somebody. I'm not necessarily counting the response rates. Look, they're breathing. I look at the truth of the Brett I look at where's the breath position is protest is dive from Oscar abdominal breathing is during natural polls following exit at the regularity of the Brett pick up the breathing and just about a minute or two without them noticing ham because the brightest one of those things as soon as you start stirring, somebody's breathing. They've changed breathing. So, you know, people would performance anxiety and results genetic predisposition here, you know, the ventilator response to CO two, which ultimately, but you are reducing when you're doing free diving donnas genetically determined, but it's trainable I think oftentimes we don't necessarily indicate we don't always, you know, consider the genetic aspect of. But there was one research mcgurk Roche quite a few papers looking at investing. Getting the ventilator response twins. I looking at the, you know, the aspect from family point of view on. He did he determined that. It was genetically predisposition. But of course, typically, it's it's accepted that you can reduce eventually response by doing extreme physical training. But as you, and I know we can also reduce ventilator response CO, two by simply thing exercises. That's really interested in that, you know, stars to answer some questions that do have set out for for a little bit later on 'cause we're already off like right down the rabbit hole here. So. Which is great. I'm going to prove his back a little bit. Clarify one low point there. You mentioned the fancy little term. They're left shift Oxy hemoglobin effect is that right? Yeah. So you've got. It's exactly rocket. But the curve is what shows what's happening. So the bore affect basically states that is carbon dioxide increases in the blood blood ph drops on the affinity of humor globe infraction is reduced. Now. What happens is that you can monitor whether you can see that from the Oxy hemoglobin dissociation curve. So it's a sigma curve on the vertical axis is s peo- to which actuation of sanctuary SAAO to dissension of your arterial blood vessels oxygen and on the horizontal axis peo- to which is the concentration of oxygen into blood and plots basically plots concentration of oxygen in the blood against the S P O too. But if you breathe hard to curve shifts to the left and the show is Dan as the curve shifts to the left forgiving level of oxygen concentration when the coach shifts left s Pio to increase which will indicate. Eight the hemoglobin is holding on to genetic as opposed to releasing right? But if you Google is just Google play knocks him or up oxygen dissociation curve. Have very interesting wrestles part of like, a basic free. Diving course recover or effect on actually knew don't maybe that second level. I think that would be like the next level second level. Try not to overload our students with too many technical terms, obviously in the beginning. But yet the board addict eventually comes into another another reason to discourage people from hyperventilation, which is a major part of what we do. So let's let's talk a little bit about how I found out about you. Because so I I kind of book the origin advantage quite a few years ago as long before I was reading actually I really enjoyed it got a lot from it. I read it at a time. When I was personally, I guess I was working hard on on doing some negative health outcomes the very lifestyle. Sure. Sure. Some that I'm still working on by the way. It was especially interesting to me because I was acutely aware of the breathing problems in the negative breathing patterns the develop myself from fifteen years of heavy smoking and. Other negative lifestyle choices, and I go to the point where I was eventually having some sleep apnea like befalling asleep, and I just stopped breathing, and I was having panicking panicking and exiled situations going on also similar tenuously. Eventually, I was studying breathing practices yoga pranee on things. Like that. So defend this book. Very interesting leads the first of all how did the book come to life? What inspired you to write? It was the culmination of just having studied this subject for many years. Yeah. It can happen by accident in two thousand two AM facility was really helping people not smoke and people would hay fever and stepped into hasn't six two hundred seven started investigating in looking at the relationship with breathing sleep off the story and then into the Nate two thousand nine started working alongside dentists in terms of. Children who as a breed of better development of cranial facial structure. I children who might breed add a day tend to have narrower jaws a longer face, and they have overcrowding of teeth or jaws or set back in their face, and they have a smaller airway these kids, and I was one of these kids concentrations affected typically seen as the dole kids in school. Even threatened touching. Kids are labor the stupid, but because they have breathing patterns orders, which nobody -education system that I'm aware of is locking and Donna I'm gonna make this point fifty up to fifty percent study children persistently breathe through an open mount on. It's changing the shape of the face in. It's so as documented undisciplined debated in dentistry for a hundred eight years on yet dentist haven't moved on. Now. I don't want to say one hundred percent of dentists there are a group of dentists who are extremely interested in advancing. This unday are push. So of all of the medical professions dentistry, especially functional dentistry, including groups the American Academy of craniofacial pain or to tropics in UK and Dr bell hanging in the United States, John Dr James Bronson Indra series of dentists really pushing this out there because if we can get children and your listeners children breathing through their noses it will influence their health and behavior for the rest of their life. So from that then twenty eleven I had physiologist over from Sweden on. We started looking at connection could we reduce lactic acid sports? So that's when the oxygen advantage was born because I started Dan moving more from health to sports performance now but away still work, of course, in how so it was the application that was the basis as most that was my initial training was I was already working with probably five or six thousand people at that point. I'd written seven books. Point. So the agenda vantage, I did the research from twenty eleven to twenty fifteen on looking at it more from a high point of view response muscle training, the mind, and yet, you know, just overall functional breathing unfunctional movement to connection there on it came together. So so, yeah, it was it was a really nice piece of research. I taught the book would never end my head written sixty thousand words, I presented it to the book agent who I was very lucky to find. Or you found me by accident. He went into dental surgery in California. My book closure match was on the counter, and he had asked Masui picked up the book. He took it with him. We started putting into practice south. We had a couple of Skype calls and dental me, he's a book agent. He's a book agent for Nelson Mandela Bishop Tutu, Richard Branson. So here's one of the best book agents world, and I've just written six thousand words of a minute script for sports. He said send it onto which I did. It and then come back. He said who is disabled. I said this is aimed at the general public noises too technical soon after we Reisch an foot. You mean is as you have to be talking to a guy down in the pub on explaining this concept to them if you're sitting across the bars to our table, and that's when I'm back to itself, you know, it was it turned out to be, you know, at the end, it was was really happy with the quality. I think is in the book. But yeah, it was lunctime coming for those of us for the listeners haven't read the book yet, perhaps she could just briefly outline the key principles that they will come across in it share the key. There's two aspects to 'em oil was luck to two things. One is functional breathing hell is your everyday breathing. How can you measure into aboard score which is taken from Utica, basically, the length of your comfortable Bretault time would give you feedback of your display. So we measure just you're set you taken over by the end of number dente function residual capacity, you stop, breathing, and you timing seconds. How long does it take until you feel the first involuntary movement of the breathing muscles? So that that measurement gives us a good idea functional breathing on if you're less than twenty five seconds. That means that there's some room from prove -ment the goal is forty seconds. So in terms of functional breathing that will affect your state of mind. It affects focus it affects your sleep ineffectual bishops physical exercise, it will of course, influence free diving. You're busy stay under water. So it affects your everyday life under second aspect is simulation of entre training. So here we do breath toiling exercises online, which was after next Latian because we have a stronger affect if we take normal breath in normal by Abson, hold our nose. So we're stopping airflow we will actually. Stronger, high pox response and hyper Coptic response. So we're using to create intermittent type poxy train when Moses hypoc hypoc optic response Annette's, forcing the body to make on obtains. It's not known where you know. This will happen. It's free diving you're doing along breath. Towed? You're relaxing your metabolism. So that you're slowing down the release of CO two into the blood carbon dioxide is is a stimulus to breed, but it's not the only one that will terminate the Bretault time, but absolutely relaxing into the is important. And if you've got a good buffering capacity inside in the muscle. You're busy, Dan that hydrogens that are coming from the muscle can gash can be bound with the buffer inside the muscle, which would slow down the release of the hydrogen nine into the blood and disciplined, you know, disciplined create acidosis in the blood and. Which in turn will stimulate your your breathing. So in terms of this could be something that's also happening. What we use in sports. We use it to delay lactic acid and fatigue. But maybe it's also happening in terms of what I would say, it is also humming in terms of free diving you're doing you're doing a strong breath. Towed? You're increasing acidity your disturbing the the blood acid base balance this intern than a slowing down the release of hydrogen from the muscle to the blood because the blood now is in acidic environment. As a result, your acidifying, the muscle, and that internal force to buddy to make -tations including improving the buffering capacity inside the Muslim apartment, but researchers haven't been able to identify because it's they did show with near infrared spectroscopy that the oxygen levels inside the most of Raju's, but in terms of the in terms of the buffering capacity. You know, it's not just. Say hemoglobin, that's the buffering capacity inside in the blood is said, you're dealing with phosphates. And there's there's a couple of different buffers inside the inside the muscle, which can be effected are very interesting. Right. Okay. Let's let's unpack a little bit of what you just said there starting with the bolt test. Yes. So in the book who you can outline how the bolt test is a very convenient way to sort of like to see where you stand in terms of your your overall health is right? So what what interest? But what you said there was that. I'm actually wanted to ask you, I have it written down here when I do the bull test, which is exhaling to f r c all my Leander spoke understand what that means. Fortunately, just a normal exultation during title Britain and an holding the breath, and then witting you said. Ed waiting until the first involuntary movement of the breathing muscles. So you mean? Yes, diaphragm contractions, right? Because on sure before if it was any kind of physical sensation such tightness or swallowing or something like that it can include that as well because you're breathing. Most giant from his connected with the Oprah delayed her muscles. So the Oprah airway would would include the throat you have you have delayed or muscles in Detroit, which are directly influenced but die from. So if there's a contraction of die from you'll also see, you know, contraction in the neck, it looks like a swallow. On threes in the boat score the reason that we just do to the first definite desire to breed is because this is not influenced by willpower determination. Whereas if you ask somebody to breathe in reduction, hold their Bedford's lung as possible willpower on determination extend their that's kind of what we do pretty much his extending the amount of time that we can in some cases in juror. The contractions inventory movement of the breathing muscles, especially in some of the more extreme free, diving disciplines, I think just just gonna have it in my mind. I think it would be very interesting for for your listeners to to also measure boats gore, and then find it up YouTube if you just put in measure recklessness and to see the car relation between their maximum Bretault time on boats score. So in other words, if you have a listener that's got a very low boat score. But a high maximum Bretault time you could indicate that willpower determination is really kicking in there. But physiologically they could make improvements if you improve your both score generally it, the if you hold your breath for say twenty seconds of abode score your maximum Brito time after relations about forty seconds. And but I think both scores also something very important to approve because that also is giving you some indication of Nitra. Nationally, your boat score was an indirect measurement of carbon dioxide carbon dioxide dissolves. A tricky one to nail down, and because it varies, and you know, from our point of view, we used to, you know, say well hyperventilation is being on these symptoms. But then researchers say, yes, the active over breathing is bring on the symptoms, but the carbon dioxide levels aren't necessarily lower. So, you know, it's difficult to pinpoint what's top thing. But in terms of dismay, unfunctional breathing patterns, twenty five seconds fear, both scores important and us what we want to improve. Yeah. I I think most of us who are listening who've gone beyond the basic levels, very busy levels of breath holding. We probably be confident that we. Was interested in actually like because we we actually do in free diving we do f RC diving so we Styve on very little lung volumes. But then there are other factors that come into play during a during diving the diving response and this pressure results playing apart in college you behind it. It'll be interesting for those guys out there listening to even to stall right now and take a few seconds on XL two for C and C where there were both score is like how you also said it's interesting if you compare compare the bolt scores in the maximum breath hose timely, you can see you'd be able to see a group of people who were who had the real mental capacity there on who the more of physical capacity towards breath. Hold on this interesting before we go onto specifically free diving. Let me let me ask you one more question. General question. What are the main things that we can do practical? Everyday tips that we can do to improve our health generally through breathing, regardless of what we do, regardless of a sport or be were involved in what do people need to start doing with their breath to see improvements in health and from a numbers perspective. The first thing I'm gonna do is emphasize the importance of nasal breathing boat in and that the no is not just the two holes in the face and basically performs up thirty functions in the human body and back in nineteen eighty eight swift with patients who are just after Joel surgery. Their jobs were wired shushing they were forced to continuously breathe through their nose. The pressure of oxygen increase in their blood by up to ten percent. So Nasab breeders better oxygenated in their blood than macrumors, but Naser breeders also will have higher end tidal co two than might breeders that you would expect this. Because you're knows imposes a resistance to your breathing. That's to treat times of your match an CO two or Secretario CO two. And as we spoke about influences to release oxygen from the red blood cells to sales when you break three knows your breathing slower and researchers in twenty seventeen from Stanford medical school. You'll get this paper. If you go Stanford medical school, slow breathing. They identified new structure in the brain in the locus Corollas under structures spying on your breathing. If you breathe fast, your brain gets agitated, and if you really slow down, your breathing your brain becomes calmer. Now, if your mouth, breathing your invariably breathing fast, upper chest, so map heaters are going to be in that fight or flight that the brain is more detailed and the brain is getting this oxygen during my breathing. Sometimes people will say what actually brute through my nose all the time. Say well, do you wake open to dry in the morning? The say yes say, well, if you wake up dry in the morning, you're not going to be feeling refreshed, and it's going back to our two years. It's been known when you have your mouth open during sleep was actually going back just been books with back in this since aiding seventy and even before one book was written by new American painter, George Caitlyn and the book is called save your life, right and euro by Canadian seventy two, and you know, as the breathing during sleep is imperative to having deep sleep on a deep sleep is really important for the body to restore normal functioning in a repair and recovery because we're under stress during the day recovery under stress, we're doing different things. We don't also want to be under stress during sleep sleep for rest and recovery day for say performance action. But if you you know, you mentioned to condition strength. About me is actually quite common. But it's very under-diagnosed on most people aren't aware of this would be an individual's stops breathing during sleep it could be because the brain isn't sending the signal to breed, which will be central out. The are your obstructive sleep apnea, the airway 'em it closes, so basically Detroit closes or you can have the soft potted voting against the troch cetera, the individuals, stuff's breathing. Unin stop breathing for a period of time. When I seen it to the point that there s a oh to drop to fifty percent. Now fifty percent is in extreme breath told and these individuals are asleep. And the next thing is they resume breathing with hard punting fast, breathing, and cardiovascular it will have a profound impact defeat ready, Mr. heart would be fluttering. So it's it's not something. That's not good. So in terms of the mind, slow, breathing is really important and. How do you measure if you're doing slow-breathing when you're both score kicks in here? The higher your bo- score the lower in general, the lower your respond to Raisch. So somebody has abode score of ten seconds. Their response rate. I would expect to be up towards twenty breads permission. Whereas if the board scores forty seconds, the response rate is six to eight Brett's permission. We also spoke about heart-rate Obosi, the optimum number of Brexit, six per minute. Which would indicate a high score on this too is coming back to Ronnie on that we spoke to at the start. You know, what distinguishes inexperienced jute from a beginner student in print on its debility, hold the Brent on the ability to hold the breakfast influence. So when I work with teams are football teams of whatever I want to find out who here has breathing pattern disorders. So as simply look at the person's breathing. Measure breath, tow time, and I know if I have not claimed by the way, we have Olympic athletes with a both score of twelve and thirteen seconds at the movement from the UK, and he would medal at the last Olympics right now, you know, which you'd never expect with such a low bow score, but odyssey. He's got tremendous training. Tremendous genetics, but physical training doesn't change necessarily change your breathing patterns. So I you know, you can identify so yes. So everyday coming back to what you're asking about your sleep during the day. It's really important to nays. The breed. We actually take at night you have done that Dr mammoth closed for United States to see if there was any effect at appears that I'm actually reading quite nicely through my nose. Fortunately, while you are because you're doing free diving. So I would say what high part is that defense later response to seal to reduce as a result of your breathing. Regina. List towards normal on the entities for you to maintain nasal breathing during sleep, I would be something for free divers to be looking at. How are you breathing functionally during the day, you know, if we considered human lungs, the greatest concentration of blood in the lungs is actually in the lower lobes, that's because of gravity we spend more of our time standing up price or setting price. But if we're breathing through an open mind, we take more air into the upper part of the lungs, and as a result, there's a pure ventilation perfusion taking place now by breathing through your nose, you pick up a gas call nitric oxide, and if you breathe slowly through knows you carry this. Nitric oxide into your lungs on nitric oxide helps to redistribute the blood triathlons. But also nasal breathing is connected with the die from. So you get a better oxygen taking the blood spoke. So there's so many different things ties in with already what you're doing functional breathing how we breathing during the day because that's what's going to. Packed at the most the difference. It made for me concentration. Focus calmness of the mind, uneven just following the Brett, you know, the minds nowadays agitated on its Getafe with social media text messaging emails, and it's almost at the brain is trained to be distracted to yesterday. There was a report Irish people checking their smartphones fifty five times a day like who's in control here, you know, and the more the brain is distracted the more. It means that we don't have the capacity to control our thinking or even to know what's going on in the mind that are towards are in control of us while that's going to be a big problem for mental health, and I envisage that meant had is going to continue to deterioration as long as there's such an emphasis on gaming ams mart phones and looking at screens because it's not going to. It's not going to have dot patch. Yeah. That's that's so true. I mean, I remember when I first started getting into these things up seven eight nine years ago that it was I almost when I started to focus on my breathing. I should almost became anxious about it because that was getting in touch with something that was. Yeah. So so close to me in like right hand side me. But it was it was kind of scared. I right because yes for so long had been permanently distracted from from. What was going on inside my body that to to make that connection again was actually really hard to quite a bit of time, and this then what you're saying about smartphones in the distraction that we face with media today is a massive part of what I'm experiencing right now, the, you know? You know, living a healthy life. But the one of the unhealthiest picks definitely is the fact that, you know, especially because of this podcast. So I have to have to be using social media like all the time. You know, it's netter to keep this. But I myself checking the phone so many times a day. And then how many how many people are listening are picking up the phone and hitting that on the side and turning the screen on? And you're not even sure what it is that you're going to look for just looking for something. And all that time that you spend scrolling through meaningless information are non useful information. You're not aware of what is going on inside your body about how you're sitting your posture. Where you're you're breathing into the not aware of like, some feeling you might have from the effects of the food that you eight and I think that's that's really a big issue. Yes. Yes. I'm. Let's go into especially for younger generation coming coming along. And because they've literally grown up with. Now, I think it made an interesting point people who I connect with the Brett that sometimes it can be that can feel uncomfortable, which we often see this people say who are prone to panic attacks that they have extreme sense, not it's not the mall, so wouldn't panic if your listeners of anxiety or product attacks, there's two subsets of people it seems who are prone to panic attacks. One group has very strong sensitivity to carbon dioxide. Dealer group doesn't now I made mistakes I used to work a lot still do with people exiled in panic attack disorders, and I'd have them do the reduce breathing and I'd have them deliberately slow there. Brett to enjoy a Sayer hunger. But then I'd be seeing that some people would panic attacks to be literally going because the fear of God is after coming up because they're having thing they're going to die. So here I'm getting them to to do a breathing exercise, which interior should be helping. But instead it's having the opposite fact, so I had to come, you know, start thinking of what's going wrong here. So I changed my approach. So obviously, I found then I had them do three minutes of reduce breathing duration was too long. So instead what I did was I bond reduced breeding with these people, and I would have them simple to paces exercise on. This would be taken over breath entry does a normal breath at Trina was Poconos and walk five to ten paces hole. Putting your bags and then take that go breathing through knows rest for half measures do it again undo twenty thirty repetitions of those Trump today on it's simple taken over breath in normal breath. Pincher knows Poconos while tend to save five to ten paces or ten to fifteen paces holding your resume breathing. So what wants to do is gently give these people teaspoon of the cumulation of carbon dioxide to condition them to be able to tolerate so you may find maybe some people come in with free diving. And I'm sure that you're able to you know, you're gradually exposed to CO two. But some people have such a strong sensitivity to that. We have to almost you know, baby baby steps over a longer period of time. So it's not might be useful for you. Right. So let's move into the free diving added things then. No three divers were faced with this unique situation of executing performance on a single breath of air. Right. So we consensus fi experiences one in which we have to deal with the lowering of our oxygen stores while Simitis dealing with the debris caused by rising levels of CO two in her body. So our training essentially for those of you know, stretching a little bit beyond the purely recreational diving side of things are training to dive deeper and longer. Our training is centered around these twin pillars of CO, two tolerance and Lois oxygen tolerance both of which can guess. So let's start with CO two as you mentioned the urge to breathe is is caused by. Arising CO two. But can we be more specific? And and. Is it would be more, correct? To say that it's a symptom of rising acidity in the blood it. Traditionally it's it's told it's actually traditionally taught the your Bret told was terminated by the increase of CO two. But there is an interesting paper by Parx back in two thousand six and he saying that there's feedback as well from the die from this feedback maybe from the lungs that's terminating the Bretault time. So most certainly there is a training affect hair, but the influence of carbon dioxide how much of an influence does the exact survey your normal breathing is primarily influenced by CO two the central KEMA receptors. They're only monitoring carbon dioxide, and it would be monitoring, of course, without it's like it. But. And then you're preferable came receptors amounting CO two oa-to on PH now owed to as it drops. During Bretault time, you're prefer came receptors are also to kick in to resume breathing. So in terms of isolating. What exactly is happening? I think it's a combination of different things. I think it's feed by coming from the die from. Receptors may be the loans. You've got the changes of blood gases, and there's a psychological aspect to it could be a rhythm control inside in the brain. That were disrupting that because you know, like white exactly is controlling the rhythm of the Brant that traditionally we would save was the inspired and expired or center, but there's some rhythm controller that's controlling that perfect breath and perfect breath out. And if you stop breathing for a period of time you've distrupted dash. So as not coming into play as well. So to give you short answer. I'm not sure. The more you go into it. The more you realize adult. No, and yes, so I take some people like if you wanted is to find the paper just get name of it now on it's called breath holding in its point of published in experimental physiology to review article by Parx university of Birmingham, PA, orca ES. It's very interesting because it's helping to answer those questions that you have. And it does not the altogether. The he hasn't. He has reached a decision. Okay to you guys are listening. I will I'll make a point putting that linked to that paper in the show notes as well. Right. So what we do is read. I. What you're saying? There about new students who come on some of them have especially strong sensitivity to Decio to what we actually experienced most of the time. Is that considering that most of the people who come to as instructors have never even held her breath? You know, a tall in their life's. Yes. Maybe beyond when they were kids in the replaying games with each other challenging each other. So we usually find is that what I do is out have people do a smallish short breath, hold without really any instruction organs. And you just tell them to stop his descendant as soon as he feels some kind of earth's to brief and they'll which is like the boat. Yeah. Like the bowl. So it happens very quickly usually forty seconds to like a minute because the are still trying to push a little bit, you know, 'cause the K K so it's beyond the boat. Okay. But of course, that's also on a fuel breath of fuel lung full of air right of case. Okay. So different from the bulletin that sense. And then what I'll do I'll talk them through the science of what is happening with CO two rising two levels. Basically staying the same through the duration of these short breath holds yes to once. They know that and then once we begin to winch discussed the or to breathe in what they might feel ask them to stay with sensations for a little bit longer explore them. And know that nothing because they know know that nothing bad is going to happen to them. You'll see the breath old times double or even triple straightaway. Right. So the psychological. The psychological horror of the equation comes into play very strongly in the beginning here for us read. I was so that's where we start with our training is getting used to the idea the psychology of overdoing and then. And then at some point down the road, we're gonna we're gonna run up against the fact that we really are struggling to hold her breath. Right. So the urge to breathe becomes almost unbearable. Yes, sir. Peered at time. A lot of his will, you know, for a lot of it'll be how long can we stay with her contractions? And what what I find really interesting is a lot of people wanna know what your thoughts are on this. And you said something about genetic predisposition to levels of CO, two tolerance because me, for example, all Alrighty have diplomatic contract since within one minute ten one minute twenty on on breath old and I'm relatively trained as a free diver. Yes. But there are others out there who might be three or four minutes before they feel the first contraction. So yes, why is it to people can be apparently the same kind of age on fitness do the same activities appear. To have the same physical attributes in terms of, you know, their their health, but their CO two response can be so different. Yeah. I think it does. I think genetics plays a role more so than we anticipated and indulge as while genetic stent towards different conditions. So typically somebody who's may be predisposed to Osama are somebody who's predisposed to exercise Jewish broncho constriction. They will have a lower retro ton people who are prone to panic. They would have lower breath tow time. And so if you're looking at respond or disorders and disorders of of panic disorders successor does individuals were typically have a lower rectal time, and they do have more work to do. So what I'd be saying? There is look at your everyday breathing patterns because if rinse this you're doing breath tolling undo free diving, but then you're not aware of your breathing during the day. And if you're saying take. His Cy every now, and again, every few minutes aside, or you have your mind open your breathing fast. What it means is that your everyday breathing is actually going to influence your performance during free diving. So you're free diving is short period of time relatively in comparison to the rest of your breathing like breathing twenty four seven, and so if you're free dive in for say one hour a day when how is your breathing for the other twenty three hours because that too is going to influence, so I'd be looking at those individuals to maybe they find they have to work hard or number one is I would accept that. It is normal. We see and I've seen individuals get the score of the forty seconds of amount of weeks. And then I see other people no matter how hard they train. They have difficult to get into scope. So there are those personal traits, even including your ability to handle stress, you know, some people are just genetically better at able to handle stress kind of be approved. Joseph Kahn what at the same time. If you have a natural predisposition to better handle, something I think you have a slight advantage. So so yeah. So it's just one of those things about the human body. And but like it's coming back to my point look at your everyday breathing patterns, yet if you're having if you're having a little bit of difficulty in terms of increasing your rental time, and and in training, your breathing during saying train your breathing regularly, but often little little often during the day to kind of maintain you know, to to maintain training affect as opposed to say just training for one hour, and then forgetting a bunch of reading for two two days or something and trae little and often we would say if I have a hard time or somebody is a hard time. If I have difficulty would students trying to improve their breathing. I actually talent to do it for ten minutes every hour. Now, those individuals that could be very breakfast though. So. So, you know, we're just exposing them to small reptiles on slow-breathing. But that's I would have to do that often. Right. That's that's really interesting. I think it's really important point for those of out there who are like free divers who are really getting into the spore want to really the people are always concerned about hud's, improves breath. Hold time and the might be living relief fast paced high stress job during the day. They might be juggling Somaly the might be juggling some personal or psychological issues. You know, a lot of factors that leave them on state of nervous or anxious or tense. Even on a subtle level that they're not even aware of. And then they have those two or three hours a week where the they wanna go and train their free diving under they haven't they haven't got their baseline to. Yes. Healthy level before the star getting that. So yes, Donya little when I pay attention to his pupil who toll Kalash. So I often see maybe schoolteachers people involved in sales people who talking all day long because during token, your response rate untitled volume increase, so here you have an individual who's literally hyperventilating for maybe six or eight hours a day. So they're hyper ventilating one one. But then hyperventilating during the toning, but we also need to consider breakfasting is such a natural trade for human being to do. We have lost this, you know, trout or ever Lucien. We add one tears that we were getting a lot of our food. We would have been. Getting it from the from the seafloor. So it was a very natural uninitiated activity for human beings to do. Some of our unique human features, including the dive in response may have originated from Sonora during his going back to basics. So I think it's really well, it's time well-worked invested in terms of individuals who may be suffering from stress that it it's I think it could be very good approach to helping dealing day with us s interesting. What you say about people who talk a lot because I'm I'm a teacher. I teach our kids young kids kindergarten and teach you know, today. Like, so I'm not just talking, but I'm I'm gonna see raising your without saying either raising my voice, and I'm going to a lot of lot of communication. Yes. These kids through the day. So interesting to you know, to travel back in time to you know, two to three years ago and then star myself. Free again is a non teacher or a couple of years time. I won't be doing that fulltime either. So interesting to see how things might change because right now, I don't really have any choice, but to serve visibly talked constantly three or four hours a day. Yes. I don't. I'm not sure if you're aware. Patrick of how we traditionally train our seal to tolerance too. You know, anything about CO two tables for diving a few years ago, and I looked at them, and I would have understand some so the dead. I haven't looked at free table since not. So I'd be happy to you know, to to learn about, right? So we have these co two tables, and basically the way it works is that, you know, we'll sit down for certain period of time and a CO two table were in that will have a set breath hold time. So let's say two minutes, and we'll do a certain number of rounds. Let's see do eight rounds. And I'm talking for those of you are listening there. Like, I don't do those tables anymore. I'm talking about a traditional table. So let's eight rounds of two minutes breath. Hold and in between the rounds. The. The recovery time is getting lower and lower. So the course of this the table the amount of CO two that we can get rid of between the breath holds is reducing. The to is building up in the system, basically left with the lagging u-b-e-r Ethel's will be done with already quite a high level of CO two and the and the system so that's catch. Additionally, how do it a lot of people are moving away from that kind of table because it's very time consuming. And of course, we we understand that if we have a a minutes rest between abroad fold than essentially received tubers to normal essentially reediting system. So a lot of people miss now, redoing tables for rather than waiting minute before the start the next breath allegedly just doing ten breaths from then going down to nine breasts or eight breakfasts so in trying to increase the intensity and how much CO two stays in the system for as long as possible. And now these kinds of tables are extremely difficult, especially psychologically, the candidate wear you down a load as while. He has since I'm come bottom coming across quite a lot from, you know, my own experience from listening to the experience of others that people do these tables like crazy, but they don't actually really see much improvement in their gyms of delayed onset and their urge to brief. Why do you think that is do you think there's a better way to to delay the onset of earth's to brief? I think it's your everyday breathing here which needs to be looked and especially individuals. Now when you're talking about delayed onset to the urge to breathe is the I urge is the first vomiting muscles died for Matic contractions. That's your everyday breathing. So that's really for slow breathing comes in and slow breathing to the point that, you know. Even your listeners could even just trying there that you're paying attention to the full coming into knows Andrew really slowing down the speed of the Brett that's coming in to your nose on the top of the right? You have a toll for feeling relaxation. So you have really gently relaxed route and then Wade into the field in each breathe again, just slowing down speed of air almost that your breathing. Hardly any Aaron tear knows. Are you could you could count the Brits? In terms of having six permission. So you could for example, be breathing in for maybe a, you know, three or four seconds of breath in with such breath in and magin that you're breathing is so smooth that there's no turbulence inside the knows that the fine hairs into nostrils aren't moving. So you feed hardly on air coming in over two three or four seconds. And then you having a Gente, relax breath out for five or six seconds. So you really slowing down the breadth that true relaxation and you want to maintain Atara air hunger. True by this is important. What you say they are that it's not just relaxed beating the UK kinda fall snow through there's going to be signed of air hunger. There's gonna be a very slight awareness CO two yet. You wanna get an air Hoeger almost that you're on the verge of disrupting your breathing rhythm. But you're not. So you wanna slow down your breathing? Sufficiently to increase the to the blood that you feel air hunger. But don't increase the seal. To too much that the response centre reacts by sending stimulus debris. So if you feel your if you start having involuntary movements of your breathing muscles during the reduced breathing than the air hunger gone too far. Now, what that allows you to do is is as you to if you do the reduce breathing at the start what I'd say do it for about three to five minutes on here. You're increasing your CO two exposure over a longer duration say three to five minutes democ practice. Do it for ten minutes. I'm it's it's kinda game. You know, an I'd say even get a nice comfortable chair Anaya back into. So that you're really relaxed on really deliberately slow down. The Brett for up to ten minutes and maintain that air hunger for ten minutes, and that's going to give your body. Good exposure to higher CO two. Because even if you think what I do physical exercise. Physical exercise. It is true we produce far more CO two during physical exercise as we increase your metabolic rate. But what happens is that our ventilation increases proportionately. So the amount of CO two in the blood. It actually remains very similar boat during rest or during physical exercise. So physical exercise itself isn't an ideal way to reduce ventilator response to see to. Instead, we need to under- breed underneath to under breathe for a period of time. And so I'd say slow breathing. We have products is why like we have abu-taha go bad to people wear and we have them wear during sleep as well. And some people would wired sleep some people wear on their laptop and the device just about elasticated. You're wear around your die from it. Exerts a pressure there creates resistance to your breathing to slow down your breathing, especially when you're working or doing sleep. So there's different things you could do do your do your job. Go. For job. But this time job, which are met closed allow your nose to impose a resistance, you're breathing. So that will also will have CO to increase in the blood. So you know, really what you want to do. We're talking about two dosage ration- of CO two exposure on with slow breathing and jogging with the match closed where exposing the body to a higher duration the doses relatively life. But the jurisdiction is long. So I think in terms of free diving it may not be that the dose the doses one thing, but we also need to consider the jurisdiction. This is probably would have been weird to see you to table were coming in than it was increase in degeneration of exposure. But as you say all it takes his one manage for CO two clear. Yeah. So what what do you think it is about because we do these CO two tables for the course of let's see on the eighth eighth round of two minute. Breaking old were have a huge. The contractions of already started the moment that we start holding breath. So we have a huge amount of CO two inside his for for minutes. So that that is stimulating our our progress. I don't know to be on and I can't pinpoint her. So I don't know. But you suspect that trying to turn it of method, which is more gentle this like a low level air hunger. Over a prolonged period of time might be something that we should look into. But we always for almost twenty years our knowledge, I don't wear came from. But it would have over the years, you know. That breath toting itself wouldn't necessarily change your breathing patterns that to change breathing patterns. We have to emphasize slow breathing. So if I have not lied coming into me, I don't just concentrate on the breadth. Owning us backed also concentrating in the function breathing aspect of because I know that if I get their functional breathing rice. It's a good foundation dent for tolling Royd. What if I just do their breath tolling something as missing profound Asians missing? Yeah. Like, you know, if you were to sign stare, we don't have. But it was something that we've been doing and something that we continue to do and on it seems to get the results for the free diving world there's a lot of his out there who are wondering like are. We just basically bashing our heads against the walls with these intense CO two tables, you know, they're they're they're time consuming. They're extremely uncomfortable. And they don't seem to be producing great results in terms of you know, what's happening to his during our breath holding which is the whole point. So we could be missing a huge piece of the puzzle right here. Going back to functional breathing going back to what you're talking about. And I'm constantly surprised here. How much this reminds me of the traditional Yama practice? I learned this long slow inhalations next elections where you're constantly testing that. Boundary that urge to breathe boundary extending it gradually over time. You know, even one second a week would be something that was kind of a typical, you know. So that you you starting with the? The twelve second inhalation exhibition and taking a whole year to to build up to a thirty second collision exhibition, but it wouldn't be something that was a painful or uncomfortable or stressful to do yet, no interior to tables work interior, because I didn't realize that it was just your point to car fight at far me that as soon as you do the final Bretault ready fitting, the contractions will that's indicating that your own ready, hyper Kathy. Now, we have to bear in mind that the buddy is really sensed of CO two normal carbon dioxide the buddies very sensitive to an increase of CO two is it's easy to get rid of carbon dioxide from the body is very difficult to increase it. And to give an example normalcy to forty millimeters of mercury, but if CO two increases between two and five millimeter of mercury pressure ventilation dove. It's not only very very small increase. So you. Could have. Hi, Cathy, right, thrived detail. So the table itself amd interior, it it makes sense. But zoo say it's the function is the functional breathing outside of that work. That state could be could be. Yeah. Okay. Very interesting. Thank you for for highlighting that functional reading point because the is going to be of great interest to the listeners. What do you what do you think about reducing your talked about reducing lactic before apartment, the functional breathing on whatever kind of like traditional CO, two tables were using what about the physical activity or exercise? Like can we increase our breath hold with things like our high intensity? Interval training is what kind of affect is gonna have on on on our CO two and lactic and things like that think what you're doing is more effective, and we compared high-intensity into training with Brett tolling and the actually had a stronger affect and there was a study by words, and he looked at least rugby players Rabih union pairs in Australia. These were. Professionals. So the obviously the margins of difference. You know, if you're working with a professional athlete, you don't expect to get that much of a difference because they're already optimum, fitness, fitness. And basically they conducted for site two sessions two sets pro week of seven to eight breath. Tolls on the exultation on each breath, toward was normal breath interest maitre knows don't know normal normal birth out pincher knows unspent for forty paces holding the Brett, and then it was recovering for about thirty seconds before you do it again and players doing seven to eight repetitions percents under were doing two sets per week and the high intensity training was dropped on after four weeks repeated sprint increased in the group who were doing the from nine to fourteen Android. Sprint Benji is a very good indicator of sports. Performance in team, sports basketball soccer, rugby that you're sprinting, and then you recover, but there's time for recovery before you spent again, there's there's a situation whereby. Breath hold produced far greater effect. There was no improvement in the group that were doing intensity training. So I think you're already on the money there. You're doing the right thing and high intensity training. Yes. It will stimulate on aerobic colossus. It's more traumatic. I think it's like I say to our guys coming in this one to stimulate on aerobic psychosis. If they're a mayor, whatever this I'm gonna replace some of your high intensity training because that's exposing increasing risk of injury. Here were doing breath toting reproducing a stronger affect under snow trauma to. And so I think that we're on the right one hair. What I would say is back to the point. If he works to physical exercise do Twitter medalist breath in ENA netra, the knows the quality of the Bracks nasal breathing versus might breathing totally different. And you want to be using the full depth of your lungs. And you want to want to have slow breathing. So if you go for a run, which are my clothes Jacob bring in some high intensity interval training here in that. Maybe you're you're going hard for half a minute. And then you're going back down to normal pace for a minute or so hard front half a minute. But maintain as breathing tribes that could be an interesting one thanks to you actually been doing this for a couple of years now. Like when I go for my runs, I always a mole was Mika point. Keep my nose close. Closed and my rule is that if if I can't keep my mouth closed than I'm going to fast. So I'm always like playing that edge where I'm having a nice in a hard intense run. But I'm getting through my nose the whole time miss. Another thing that we do is part of a training. We do things like call them apnea walking or apnea steer climbing things. Like, this something you have to study doing his actually hold my breath. Take a breath will my breath for the minutes. I'll start to climb the stairs, of course, planning listening. This thinking about doing this. Make sure you have somebody with you. When you do these kinds of activities. So there were exposing ourselves to high levels of CO two also at the same time. We have a strong lactic build up from the stair class does just sound like we're on the right track. Here is filled with this kind of activity. I think so there's a number things happening there increase. CO two is gonna build a Piedra Jains. It's going to find the bloods, the five minutes combined with high CEA, so you've got a drop of your SPO to you've don't have sufficient oxygen getting the muscles. The hydrogen coming from the most joined the physical exercise doesn't get accident. Is it associates in turn by Rubik acid form lactic acid, which in turn dissociates into hydrogen lactation? So you've gotta double hydrogen affect from the high poxy Kuyper Coptic response. And if you expose the buddy to increase the dose as you are going to force the budgets, make uptake. So I think it's an interesting one you've got a strong breath toads combined with physical exercise and then joined normal breathing. You're you're climbing and that you're already in a state of not drowning extra load onto by by walking up. Stairs, as it gets its benefit to interesting. Okay. Patrick do. You have any thoughts on iron possible iron deficiency. In folks out there who are doing a lot breath holding. I know that stiffy offer men and women. Yes, since women menstruate in lose blood them yet men. Don't what are your thoughts about this possibility that we? That we that we could need to supplement with iron. Is that initially think I think could be used? I think for some people evicted very briefly and we wear aware of in terms of individuals who. You know, when we think about say simulation of onto training. I need athletes to generate a high poxy Kuyper Cup response to create a stimulus under the cost contractions increases rich reporting excetera anonymously, we want to improve oxygen-carrying capacity, but when we had some athletes than they did full blood tests. They're mclovin humanity increasing, and we didn't know why. And part of that could be in. There are Evans were low donating. I'd say is that if you were embarking aren't supplementation. Just make sure you get tested prior that it shows that you're low m NF your low, you know, it could be helpful because to improve your oxygen-carrying capacity. Improve your hemoglobin hemoglobin is your buffers wild. So, you know, improving your hemoglobin global and if your low and. Aren't you might be dislike disadvantage NS? Correct. Yelm, females would be more prone to the males. But ultimately, it's by just getting it getting full-body for blood tests to see for you rush. You need to feel blood tests to find out before you start messing around with the iron supplementation. Because the consequences of supplementing the with too much iron. It can be pretty bad as well. Right. Yes. Cracked akeso on a good question here from Matias youth, Betty or Goth Berg Matias. He is asking. If you start thinking about breathing on have a problem to get a natural slow breath getting stressed trying to breathe slowly DMZ tricks for calming down the breathing to be able to breathe without thinking about it. I guess he's asking Cowdery Chiba state of calmness in a state of Zion for people who are very anxious coming in. If a find that focusing on the breath is making the matches within our give them destruction exercises. And I do have a twenty minutes dot which consent onto and your your listeners can download the free of charge. I can put that on the show notes yellow fantastic. And what to do is just listen to end they allow the it's it's only my own voice. It's guided exercise just designed to bring you into relaxation and bring you into relaxation than it's easier for your focus on the Brett. So that's one thing. We do. The other thing is I do this pace. So just as a Senator Lee, Ron if we have somebody coming panic disorders, don't like focusing on the breathing. So instead, I still want to change the gas, and I'd simply just have to breathe intruder knows reactor knows pinched her nose and while five or ten paces or under sitting down. Relented her nose pinched or knows on holder for the five seconds, and then resume breathing through the nose and that breed normal for ten seconds identical there for five and to repeat of Bretault to five seconds every ten seconds onto it for about five to ten minutes. So here we can still get some of the benefits of the bridge of the breathing exercises, but would actively having to do them. And then as the days go by your gently conditioning yourself to the feeling of air hunger. And almost that you're getting teaspoon of breathing exercise, undone your find it easier to do the actual breathing exercise. So it's a combination of relax Asian and another thing I'd say to you don't care. What happens you have to have a passive approach? You know, we never say to somebody try to breathing exercises. You know, we don't want to imply on effort. I never care sites. Pupil coming in. I don't care. You're breathing is I just want to say we're gonna play with. That's the way the breakfast. You know, the breakfast intrinsic part of us, and it's guttered to here. And so you're just gently focusing on us, you know, don't worry about having a perfect breathing. Perfect or performance anxiety. And the other thing is the individuals who are more prone to breathing pattern disorders do have perfectionist tendencies. And the reason being is because they place higher demands on themselves on the breath, the breakfast, just one of those things that perfectionism doesn't work because the Brecht is it's more intelligent than we are. So what we should be doing is, you know, working on allowing you know, allowing the breath the function that were guiding would I've tried to force it into place sometimes force things into place. But instead, we should be playing with nice, okay? One question from Matisse. And I think you can have. Way back in the beginning of this interview. I think you you alluded to this. It's something that people can find out more about in in the auction advantage. If I remember correctly, but he's asking if mouth breathing could contribute to problematic, you stationed troops, which is yes big issue for resin free diving because obviously we need to equalize as we as the pressure increases dive. So having this having. Used Asian ships that respond nicely to us is very important. So you made have something about mouth breathing actually leading to change ficials structure, which I guess would also affect the sinus structure as well. Right. Yes. I think that's where the problem is. I think it's mouth breathing during childhood that causes alterations. And that causes alterations to the shape of the face and discontent packed to use station troops. Now. Same wouldn't would not which if you have the issue, the more, you breathe through your nose, your sinuses? Woodstock to work effectively more effectively. So even if you feel that you don't have, you know, the adequate craniofacial structure wouldn't be concerned. But most certainly be saying as everybody stop breathing through the nose in boat in and out through the nose. It doesn't make sense to bring back through the mount amd because if you breathe that through the metro losing here. Moisture from the body that's energy expended by the body. And if you breathe through your nose is more likely to be congested. So breathing into knows I'm breathing through the nose the nose traps. The heat and moisture index him breath disown to have scoops better hydrates amd. But also, it leads to less nasal stuffiness. So in order to have sinuses. This function breathing comes in, you know, I would be really interesting Don to see her money. Individuals are doing breath jiving under making tremendous work during what they're doing. But then they're forgetting a better breathing may be reverting to my breathing during the day or during sleep. I think that would be really interesting if you have a group trying find that I was asking the question. Do you wake up the drive to the morning? Do you notice yourself, my breathing measured are both scores amd because again, I don't have all the answers here. But most certainly your station troops in sinuses. We know they work better when when breathing functional on that's including knows bathing. Yeah. That's that's a fascinating. Because equalization is probably the biggest issue that we face as beginner free divers the some people for him. It's no problem whatsoever. And then there's a whole spectrum of issues on the Casey's Vermont just take a long time to progress. But they're like what appears to be mechanical or structural issues with equalization, and we never say what is your functional breathing like during the day. We never ask them if they're if the tend to be through the most we never ask these things. So this is really good that you bring this up. Yes. I know that paper published in the journal of the the army medical corpse at one of our doctors that's on aboard for beauty as a medical doctor John Heron, and he published a paper to use of breathing techniques for the management of us station tube dysfunction. And he brought in. So he was a case report. Previously twenty eight year old male soldier smoke twenty cigarettes per day. He did is six to eight months history suggestive of your station tube dysfunction, and he put him through the breathing exercises. I'm breathing exclusively through the nose and over the two week period, which you practice the exercises, despite some residual funds just reading the article he can now week belies the years. I'm believes this to be a result of practicing the breathing technique, and so so yeah, again, just very little written on this. And I think this is going to be experience of your to put it into practice. You've nothing to nothing to lose a lot of people at their whose years are up right now about what you just said because we often know when people are going for the first free. Diving course, you know, could be, you know, twenty thirty percent of people who get stop. Into tracks with an inability to equalize we often. Yes. But things like. A healthy diet. How is your your sleep? How is your did you have air conditioning in the room Reese, lip things like that shirt on Notre affected -sition? But you're you're raising something here that is much more all encompassing here that is fundamental that we're missing actually is asking about this functional breathing pattern, the could may or may not be healthy. So thank you very much for enlightening about that. That's a up some really nice new possibilities for as I think. Sure, sure. I'd be happy said on these articles to you. We spoke the first one we can talk about it afterwards. Just ones that I mentioned hand them that you have flowed papers here. So can also send you the relaxation. Great and display your your listeners can do their research L through all those in the show notes. Tastic patrick. Okay. Patrick. I'm going to I'm gonna let you go into second. I just want to ask you the traditional up Kathy question, which is do you have a book or author that you would like to recommend to the to listeners, and it doesn't have to be anything on the subject of breathing of adding just anything that comes to mind. Sure on the book that probably made the most profound changed my life as a book called power of now by Tolly written back in nineteen ninety nine as most of your listeners Novic, and I read not quite recently, which add, but I kept on ignoring on Dan think Tuesdays, but Mario skull to country member the writer on the, but it's a really profound book in terms of it's it's an older who's who's meeting with his former university professor the last Tuesday with Maury. I think it's called and the university professors. Parting his life experience, and the things that were good under things that were not so good and the affected society has honest in terms of driving us to achieve with advertising. But ultimately, what's it really on a badge? So there were that last book is really beautiful small little book. And you know, there were tremendous finish that when you read it, you're saying, wow. This is what it's all about because life. I'm forty five dunno you sound, Jeremiah, Johnny. But a swear were as we get a bit older life passes us by and we have to realize wash journey are we taking here. And you know, we can talk about the incidental things or we can be talking about living living life living it to the full nausea, according to the dictates of society, and you know, big commercial interests. So I think it's good to to condemnation that so. Yeah. Choosed as with Mari. I have a little bit off. It could be the last Tuesday with Maury. But I'm sure you'll be able to take it off ala L find out what it is added to the list on yet thirty five by the way. So I'm kind of cusp of. Transitioning. Let's say in many people's minds, and these the question award is really important to me. What is it that? I focus my energies into my life is. Yes, that's something that comes up more and more often than a lot of things that can't be ignored anymore. So this was looking for something to stimulate that kind of thought the transformation. Nice, Patrick if people want to get in touch with your find out more about you apart from meeting books can do that. We have website is up is oxygen advantage dot com and demilitarizes Patrick oxygen advantage dot com and the book the oxygen advantages, it's in twelve languages, including Chinese in Taiwanese, Japanese, etc. Since of good fewer appeared nine witches, and for physiology, breathing we have a Utah. John Locke suggested vantage Angeliki, pariah, discuss breakfasts Ness, anoxia. Mclovin. Dissociation and some of the stuff that we talked about here and a demonstration writer up on the whiteboard. So that might be interesting for you absolute. So a good links to all that stuff in the show notes. Okay. Patrick gonna let you go now on get on today. So thank you thankful that you you took the time to sit down with today. The talked to about about a breathing on how we can apply. It not just as read Irish, but as people in general to improve our house, I think we could probably have if we had unlimited amount of time we could had unlimited discussion gunned down several more rabbit holes. But I think there's a lot for the for the listeners to chew on here. And you've also given me some some really good ideas as well. So thank you so much a motor of your name. Great. Thanks so much enjoyed the chat. Thank you so much again, enjoy the rest of your day. And yeah, hopefully, we can do this again some point down the line Grosz. Thanks very much John eight enjoy dish. Okay. Thanks coach enjoyed by utopia. But might. That was Patrick McEwen. Super fascinating stuff. I loved that interview. Let me know what you think about it. Do you want more of this kind of guest on the show? What about suggestions who do you think would prove to be insightful for us free divers if we could bring them into the cafe remember, you can go to audible dot com slash free death cafe and see if you can pick up a free copy of Patrick's book the oxygen advantage, which is an essential read. If you want to learn more about the topics covered in this episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. So you never miss an episode. We wouldn't want that happening. That's for sure. Go to continuum, fins dot com dot AU and mentioned a free death. Cafe to Danny Hearst as your ordering your beautiful new fins. If you want an amazing Tam percent discount and free delivery inside Australia. If you're there stay healthy. Stay happy big love to you, all and above all dive safe.

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63: Interview With Patrick McKeown

Rapid Change Matters

1:10:25 hr | 3 months ago

63: Interview With Patrick McKeown

"Welcome to episode sixty three of the rapid change matters. Podcast A conversation with leading proponent of the Butare breathing method and author of the oxygen advantage. Patrick mckeown my name's Howard Cooper and for over fourteen years. Now I've been fascinated with helping people to create personal change quickly but I still come across. Many believed that losting personal change has to take a long time consisting of reliving traumas or deep psychological analysis or simply that flawed notion that understanding. Why you have a problem will somehow make it go away. I'm on a mission to get people who work therapeutically with others to shift their thinking and realized that these beliefs and not written in stone. Rapid change can happen so to help you open up to. What's possible I'm chatting with top therapists and agents of change. Who are out there. Getting real results with real people really quickly before we get to the interview. I've got big news. Rapid Change Works is now running live training events and you can check out the latest events coming up by visiting rapid change dot works where you can also download a free quick to read. Pdf on five strategies to amplify your client response along with all the information about this episode and episode. Still to come now with the interview. Today we breathe some new life into the podcast. My next guest is the author of the book. The oxygen advantage and is someone who's trained thousands of people to breathe more efficiently. A leading proponent of the buteyko method of breathing. He may change your views on breathing for good myself. A good enormous value after reading this book and practicing the methods outlined the number is huge benefits and using some of these principles in Cloyne work to especially helping people. Things gives me enormous pleasure to welcome. Patrick McEwen to the podcast. Welcome Patrick thanks. Very much aren't good to be here. It's absolutely fantastic to have you hoping we can straighten because a many appoint listeners might not know much about you or your background or how you ended up. Becoming one of the leading proponents of the view take methods. So maybe you could give us a little luck era affiliate justify your back pressure as close as it's not a career that you would. You would go into at least twenty years ago by choice so I fell into it by accident fit into it because my own how tissues as a kid growing up I had chronic nasal obstruction. I was a chronic map reader. If you're breathing mattress sleep is impacted. Map-reading is also causing fast oppor. Chess breathing that results in education of the mind and mouth breathing also feeding into asthma. So when you have a breathing pattern disorder such as fast process breathing. It wasn't just impacting my asthma but it was impacting. My sleep and it was impacting anxiety. But of course she'll learn to live with us because you know what our way and I used to always been used to say to me. They could hear my breathing. Our did I have a head cold and debt. I still fat no matter how much era breed that I still wasn't getting an affair and it wasn't because I was under breathing. The Problem Mazda developed the habit of breathing too hard too fast too much air and that will find the face of what's often toll auch and told to people who are under stress. They're often towards take a deep Brett. Did take a big Brett. It's entirely the wrong thing to do so I was. You know after a fifteen twenty years ago. Remember exactly but Saturday was twenty your twenty years of in and out of medical doctors and hospitals and I came across an article in the newspaper about the work of a Russian doctor constantly. You take up. This is back in one thousand nine hundred page and he said two things he said. Break through your nose at all time. And he said breed lange so I started using his exercise to decongest minnows. And that night then I tape my mouth. Tonight used a nasal danger and the first morning. I didn't find much of a difference but the second morning I woke up fitting act and I woke up feeling more alert than ahead ever done that. I could ever remember. There was something that was a difference there and you know. Let me think of breathing. Breathing seldom gets attention and when it does get attention. Oftentimes the information. That's put out there. It's it's not correct and it doesn't make sense and oftentimes. I think it can do more harm than it can go if people believe that hard breathing and taken big brats is going to have calmed them down. It's entirely incorrect. So what I would like to explore his. Maybe why have misinterpretations convenient breathing? Why has breathing being overlooked? What role does breathing have to play with? People that hangs is he and poor sleep. And what's the connection between breathing sleep anxiety so to cut a long story short? It made a huge difference to my life. My background is economics from university in Dublin Dublin I wasn't the corporate world and then in two thousand and one. I had lunch that I wanted to teach breathing. So I trained in Russia doctoral. Butare he was alive at the time and he crashes may a comeback to art in two thousand and two and I've been teaching fulltime ever since I've written eight books. My latest book the oxygen advantages going into fourteen languages. And I teach this internationally so unfortunate. I found a job that I absolutely love to do. And it's very satisfying. It's very rewarding. And you know it's it's tremendous to be honest with you. It's really interesting. Hearing that one of the questions that I wanted to explore with us you knew that you had sort of congestion people. Colvin's it on your breathing. You mentioned earlier and then you suddenly see also all this thing about this on that you've never come across before. What was it stuck out to you? That the help she guy. Oh okay. That's interesting. This something there about what is. GonNa say that. I WANNA try because it'd be so easy to dismiss something a lot of people you know when you say suffer fools outside of cognitive biases. They go well well. Let's probably rubbish. Just carry on debriefing harder. But but you didn't you Kinda went. Oh hold on the soap. Make different hair. That's interesting well. The newspaper article and might not have been the first time to the cam across the importance of nose breathing. But certainly they are to. What struck a chord with me. And I was conscious that I remember being in hospital with Asman back in nineteen ninety four and also that same year we had our nine five ounce had operation. My nose fixmer knows but finally the operation surgeons never told me to break through so the surgeons at dressed as lab -struction but didn't address. The Habash and this happens with children are not US towers of as nasal operation scoring on. Children are having a noise removed but children encouraged to NASAB right afterwards. It's a real issue. We can't just change. The obstruction would act changing the behavior but I remember being in hospital with asthma attack. Nineteen ninety four to medical doctors. Come in this sense my breathing and they commented that he breeds both through his nose and trude as much and that stuck with me so I knew there was a problem there and probably that nays breathing was the way to go but it wasn't might prefer droop because if. I try to reach my nose. I felt I wasn't getting enough air so I needed techniques to be able to decongest my nose and all of these techniques have been available and written about like when I look back at this when I knock cash journals written by over one hundred years ago looking at how mark breathing can affect your children. How these kids have no attention in school. How to grow their face? I would cause crooked. Tish how deep the Like the face dollar and expressionless The teacher is accusing the child of of daydreaming. That was made and falling asleep. And we have a fifty percent of the fifty percent study. Children are persistent map breathing and it's completely being overlooked and it's a huge problem. Doors a study conducted by Kanban in stratford-upon-avon. It was believe I think if if I can remember correctly was a nature study looking at eleven thousand children and they looked at children with sleep. Disordered breathing and mouth breathing is a contributory factor to the children would sleep disorder breathing. They if untreated. They had a forty percent increase. Risk of special education dates. Now you know. Why is this being overlooked? Why is nobody talking about my breathing? Why is nobody talking about mark breathing during sleep and I would say dealing with People Xijing? How can you have a camera? And if you don't have asleep good sleep quashing and we have to consider that the bidirectional relationship between breathing sleep and the mind if we are stressed out. Breathing gets faster and upper chest but faster and upper chest. Breathing also feeds back into stress. And GITEX TO MIND. Can you have a Cam? Mind if physiologically you're breathing faster and upper chest. If you have faster and upper chest breathing map we think it impacts your sleep quality. You don't achieve deep quasi sleep and you will wake up feeling refreshed if you don't make fieldwork feeling refreshed. You're more likely to be anxious because you cannot concentrate. You cannot be productive so you cannot achieve everyday tasks that you want to do so your sleep is feeding into anxiety but also if you have an agitated mind. It's difficult to fall asleep insomnia so individuals who can't switch off where there is incessant and repetitive activity. Where there's one taught after the other approach by we're ruminating on on issues that are going on and we end up twisting and turning you know for a couple of hours before we go to sleep that's going to also result tin and waking up feeling refreshed so an agitated mind affects our sleep sleep quasi can impact. Niger tasted mind and agitated. Mind affects breathing and how we breathe effects. An an agitated mind how we breed affects your sleep. How am I stop talking in his ear? Because sometimes they go into like I remember speaking to a group of psychotherapists and I told him you know. I didn't tell the money thing but I explained cognitive behavioral therapies tremendous but it does not changing response to physiology and we know that from studies. And if you are working with somebody would anxiety with depression with high stress levels with post traumatic stress disorder. How can you really make 'em huge difference to that individual's life unless you look at sleep and unless you look at breathing and those are two things and the research in terms of breathing is not just about taking that big Brett it's not just about focusing on the bio mechanics of breathing is as often emphasized and yoga and Palatis breathing is more complex. But it's not that complex at the same time. There are trade dimensions to breathing biochemical by mechanical and cadence of the Brett and the breadth at South by working windisch. It can impart a tremendous terror -peutic beneficiary from sympa practice that you bring into your everyday life because it's true you're breathing that you influence the functions of the body. That's outside of your normal nausea Automatic control so I think it's a great inroad but when we talk about breathing we need to quantify and qualify wash. Are we talking about and how to make the changes to breathing? Because we don't want to make mistakes with this. If an individual has a belief of taking hard full big bricks they actually do more harm than good. Do you think so I I would like to just before. We get to lower clarify for the audience. What specifically the Buteiko method of breathing is a not gonNA bunch more questions a more things that I'd love to explore with. You is duly essentially through giving out advice as we grow up from hearing parents and counselors. Who Don't really understand the mechanisms get in the way of just the natural understanding of how to do it. I always knowing today. A too much analysis in too much outside influences gets us to basically practice and screw it up and then we have to reload. And that's the thing that I became to to to say sure will answer the first question. Dr Buteiko was focused mainly in the biochemistry of breathing. He said dodged. There is a normal partial pressure of carbon dioxide in the blood which is correct. It's forty millimeters of mercury. But if you re too hard you get rid of too much. Carbon dioxide from the bloodshed the lungs carbon dioxide is not just a waste gas it performs a number of very important functions in the human body for example. Your blood circulation is influenced by carbon dioxide. And if you break too much air you blow off carbon too much carbon dioxide your move too much carbon dioxide from the blood should the lungs and this causes blood vessels to constrict so many of your listeners will have code hands that can be impacted from breathing to heart. They have brain fog that can be impacted from breathing. Too hard and cold fish and other aspect of carbon dioxide is that it's not just a waste gas people talk about bringing oxygen and get rid of carbon dioxide because when oxygen transfers from the lungs into the blood in the blood carried by Hemoglobin Molecules which are proteins inside the red blood cells but we need to presence of carbon dioxide as a catalyst for for red blood cells to release oxygen to the tissues. And that's the board effect that was discovered back in nineteen o four so again if we are breathing too hard we blow off too much. Carbon Dioxide disinterring causes red blood cells to hold onto oxygen stronger and as a result less oxygen actually gets delivered throughout the body so the harder we breed the more blood vessels constrict and the less oxygen gets delivered to tissues organs including the heart and the brain and hyperventilation. If you are most people I think will identify with this. If I say to somebody I want you now to take ten full big breaks in and out of your nose or mapped. There will often feel lightheaded and it can happen. All it takes thirty seconds on power breathing to reduce blood flow to the brain and it can reduce blood flow blood flow to the brain by up to forty percent. And that's a significant drop in a course that hard breathing synonymous drought or evolution. Would fight or flight with stress so stress of courses making us breathe faster but then it doesn't make sense for us to stop breathing harder in an attempt to negate stress. Because all we're going to do is to make it worse. So that's your take was so soon centered solely on carbon dioxide on the biochemistry getting carbon dioxide levels normal by normalizing breathing fine. He said that people aren't breathing. Too hard they are breathing too fast and they're breathing often upper chest and often true a minute. What this is doing is impairing circulation and oxygen delivered. Now you could say like at so to answer now would do take is is a super matinees. It's absolutely brilliant. But I also then started oxygen advantage by five years ago and I started oxygen advantage for this reason while for a number of reasons. But here's one of them. I brought together courses. I was giving courses back in two thousand ten because of the financial crash here in Ireland and people were. Were you know? A lot of stress was a lot of anxiety. And I started giving mindfulness courses which I've accused interest in mindfulness and I've always been following Passenger courses in reading up and a lot of my work would have been laughing at the spiritual aspect of as well as the the breathing and respiration however I often fat. Mindfulness wasn't sufficient and also we need to bring in functional breathing so I called it. The mindfulness matted why not bring in mindfulness but also bringing Buteiko and also bringing in sleep but I couldn't have noticed much. Ninety percent of the people who were attending females and we had very few male CEOS coming to the to the courses and I was wondering like may answered the ones that are most often than Nash that are stuffing with anxiety depression. But why wouldn't they turn up to a breathing course because it wasn't maybe it wasn't suited to the Alpha male tendencies and that's how oxygen advantage was born to some degree. Because I want to do a program for sports performance to increase concentration to increase resilience and to give different breathing techniques. And what what it gave me was a great freedom because Buteiko is beautiful. And who am I to change Buteiko because it was developed by a Russian doctor it's very very pure matted and I didn't want to deviate from that but what's agenda advantage. I start off from scratch and I could bring in the biomechanical aspects from Utech but I can also bring in the bio mechanical aspect. And I could also bring incoherent and cadence breathing. I could also bring in breakfasting. Intermittent type high poxy carpet company trend. And that's basically rectal exercises to kind of for sports performance but my point here is meditation is prescribed and often recommended for pupils. How can you meditate when your mind is in emotional turmoil and when I was talking to these youngsters coming in and we had three thousand people come in over twenty ten to twenty thirteen? I would always ask them. How many of you here have ever met in your life and it was. Maybe ten percent wasn't that high because a lot of them are newcomers and asked money of you still meditation and a completely dropped off and I think there's there's a message out there because it's not. Sometimes we think of the guy who has meditating the guy in the lowest position and destroyed back in. He's all the beads and he's got the robes not that's fine. Meditation is not how you watch. It's not what you do when you're in a former crashing but it's how you bring this into your everyday life. I had an agitated mind money. People have an agitated mind and if you were to look inside the heads of most individuals you will see that. Their minds isn't Arron estate of an emotional termite even though to have lovely white heat and present you with a smile and if you go to North America today everything is good. And how you doing and all of this stuff. But it doesn't tell you what's going on in their heads. Your Life is a meditation. We carry our Brentwood us. So what I wanted to do was to bring people's breathing attention onto the bretton their everyday life to get them out of the head but to do more than just get them out of their head. Increased blood flow to the brain increase. Oxygen delivered to the brand changed by mechanics breathing because the connection between the die from and the mind but also changed cadence of the Brett slowing down the breathing for practices. A five point. Five six permission to help improve Vega told by receptors are trade for your beigey response. You SINUS ARRHYTHMIA. So we're not shout breadth is something you carry chip and if you think of breathing don't just think of breathing in one dimension. When I was a beautiful instructor my silo was all about biochemistry and I didn't focus in the by mechanics and I didn't focus on the cadence of the breakfast do yoga instructor. They're often. They're silo is the by mechanics. They don't always love the the biochemistry and they don't look at the cadence of the Brett heart-rate very busy their luggage. Cadence coherence of breathing. But they don't up at the bio mechanics and don't up the biochemistry. We can't just think of breathing of dimension and in working with people anxiety and emotional termites and I have learned a lot over the years with working with these groups and oftentimes by making mistakes and people into a fear response by having them do brat toiling because people would panic disorder. You know some groups have very strong feeling towards the fear of suffocation and when I'm having people reduce that breathing volume of course we are generating Air Hong keep them. Tell them to keep going in terms of exposed or by Tehran which would be going but at times I was putting them into too much of a fight or flight response. And so you know you learn a lush and this is what experience an aging years down the road. I realized that I know something about breathing. But there's a lot I don't know and you know it's it's really one thing about the break but it's it's a wonderful thing to work. Wish I mean I think what was interesting is is one of these things that so easy toy. Look because everyone else. It delivers civil views. Just sitting there. What do you mean if someone said to you? Can you learn to move your arms up? Let me miles an expert in doing that severely replying to focusing in on something that we all take for granted an looking at the details on the way on this idea of do we a wheeled bowl and breathing perfectly and then we kind of get accident. Influences the dysfunctional patents. I'd say we wear at one point for breathing perfectly but we have to think of that. The breathing of the infant from day. One that's going to be coming from the breathing of the mutter and it's not that I'm here to put the emphasis on the mom Bush if you have a muttering estate of stress and they are breathing imperfectly. That may be disturbing gases. Could that impact the infant? That's a question I don't know. And we certainly know from craniofacial changes and I've seen it with my daughter that she was born with a very high narrow panish and that's not ideal because of course than the airways compromised. And if you have a small knows our patch more likely to moderate but infants are born breathing through the nose because the soft Polish at the back of the Moat and the EPA cloud is meat so in actual fact. An infant is an innate nasal breeder you know lifestyle factors have changed breathing so much food and lack of breastfeeding during infancy over vent over. He should houses are houses. Now got so much. Installation people may not be opened the windows and it lack of physical exercise talking talking is not good for breathing in terms of because when you talk it increases to respond to race and it increases the tide of finding which is the size of the Brett. This intern is causing over breathing. So people who talk for a living. They will often find that they are very tired at the end of today talking. That's not because of the mental concentration but that's because of the act of talking because they're breathing is harder than their metabolic needs. So you have to consider that when you breathe hard you're blowing off too much. Carbon Dioxide and talking is causing you to breath hard like when did our ancestors get up thousand years ago very few of our ancestors good up. Eight o'clock in the morning got into work worked in some office for some multinational company under stress talking on the phone all day long having to put up the competitive politics management with their open door policy. Saying that. We're looking after employees the calling employees associates and team members and order during his pitting and milking. And you know it's a really wonder about I think at sometimes. It's really a deception and it's a deception in many organizations. When I was a twenty year old I used to be jealous of the Guy I was the guy into SOC and they used to be jealous of the guy going into the big tall skyscraper going into the big six or Big Five accountancy firms. Want a wonderful job when I'm forty six and all I can say is thank God. I never had to work for one of those companies. I was in. You know I think the my only point I'm saying is it's distressed. It's put on people and you could ask to question. I don't want to go away from a book. You can ask a question here. Is it because I was in the corporate world and I didn't like it and I found a lot of stress the fat I had put stress employees under me as well. Because the monthly targets to me and people my managers of my level we were all pitted against each other. It was all dawn. You know so one handed. I just feel that it was just when I look back and also the profiling the company that I worked wish there was only about one person over thirty two years of age and the reason being is because they got guys and our twenty s they could pay them a low wage. Dinka put them under a lot of stress. Could mold them. They could melt them and when they burnt out they could get rid of them and could replace them would even younger guys so my point here is. I was in that position but was it. The job that was causing me distress or wasn't my reaction to the job. My resilience at the time wasn't good. My sleep wasn't good. My mind was already detained and after mind is agitated. This it doesn't take much of situation to put into that stress response Coming back to your question was do. We breed naturally perfectly. Yes and do we now breed naturally perfectly probably no? I think lifestyle has really gotten the way we are not. We are not living the way our ancestors live. Our faces are changing if you look at the work of professor. John meal from from London his son. Dr Mike Mulas is carrying on if you read the books. Nutrition and physical degeneration published back in the nineteen thirties in the shape of the human faces changing the airway is becoming compromised and as the airway becomes compromised those results in my breathing but my within poor breathing patterns. But we have to look at. I suppose during the genetic influence and breathing on persons but he panic disorder P. T. S. day that breathing impacted. It's not just exiled. Changes breathing patterns breathing patterns changing anxiety and in the literature. Eighty percent of people wit anxiety have breathing pattern disorders. We have to change Nash. So one of the reasons why was painted interview was the two reasons one. I knew we talked about this briefly before but just to fill the listeners. In the I've been a working with clients the many many years I would say since reading the book. The oxygen voltage. I just haven't been able to stop noticing people who I'm seeing with anxiety coming in and being a math breed the site conversations said to you like ninety percent of the People. I'm seeing you know it's eighty percent of the research but yet certainly seems very very high and It became more and more interesting to me that have commodity be looking at the way the mind is looking at this and then ignoring something which is so glaringly being presented so often so that was one thing and the other thing that led me to the book in the first place. Which is it's kind of a personal story which is all show people which was many many years ago I ended up having having a free test of the GP to check breathing. Function equals in To come and get the results you need to go in and see him and of course your mind salts wondering what is going on. Maybe Asmara. Maybe something else and he went well. There are some signs. He said with his concerned. Gp Face that awesome signs of Restrictive lung capacity. So of course. What did I do think the luggage will do? I went on Google really helpful. The only thing I could find With the phrase restrictive lung capacity was people took him out restrictive lung disease which talked about being fatal. And you can't take a deep breath them so I was told to consult on my the appointment three weeks time. So what would I do unconsciously or even consciously I would say to try and reassure myself that I was taking in Naples taking into Fox gin and I didn't have restrictive lung capacity will take a massive big deep breath. Said I'd really WANNA feel my lungs expanding and if I could feel expanding then I would not feel reassured. The of course my lungs wouldn't restrictive. So why did that For about three weeks but I noticed off the first few hours maybe even sooner only was beginning to struggle to feel like I could take a deep breath in it wasn't satiated and say we sought to say Shit. This really is a thing. I must really have the restrictive on capacity. So I'll tell you what I must do. In order to reassure myself. I'm definitely am okay. I should carry on doing even deeper breasts and so we'll have to live with the closer three weeks. Mother told me ended up at the consultant. I really struggling to shortness of breath. I really couldn't breeze a I was really convinced that I was about to. Dolly of restrictive lung disease On his Pretty Sutton and of course. The doctors just kept telling me a well challenge. It could be laity related. They said So just take some deep breaths. That was the only thing they could ever do will say to me and of course all the coming back. No wonder if ironically the consulting even said to me. He looked the Roman ruins. Gps sense and he said. I don't know why you've been set in. He's misread them. It will. You'RE SPIRO. Attributing zoff falling but at that point. I didn't feel fun because so I'm curious that I had this thing that I've seen thome does at Hunga. What would have been going on busy logically? Som Me while I think. I think it's very common that you know if we have a stressful event in our life. And you know it's a stressful event. That's been going on for say a number of weeks or months long term as opposed to short term as opposed to something that happened over few minutes or if we have perfectionist tendencies that we place high demands on ourselves and society puts a lot of pressure on us as well. You know all all ages in terms of and your a-levels you know getting a job getting house all of this stuff and that can impact her breathing. And if we get into a habit of persistently breathing a little bit faster and a little bit harder dot. Intern can change the biochemistry of the blood. Now the body. Dan Does want to normalize Ph but in the process the kidneys don't buy Kharbash so you have a reduced buffering capacity lower co two and. It's not everybody would exiled. He has lower co two but it is common that people would anxiety our genetic predisposition towards or even just perfectionist tendencies develop breathing pattern disorders and that breathing pattern disorder becomes habitual so even when distresses removed the breathing pattern sort remains and one of the symptoms of breathing pattern disorders. It's often common air hunger. So we are. Hunger is when one would have saved an increased sensitivity to the gas carbon dioxide. And you'll have a knock leash and they will typically have a well trained. Athlete will typically have a reduced sensitivity to the gas carbon Knox because carbon dioxide. That drives your breathing. So as carbon dioxide comes from the from the from the tissues into the blood as carbonated increase in the blood blood. Ph Drops in the brain reacts by sending a stimulus to breed. It's not oxygen. Drives her breathing. The but the body doesn't like it's the body doesn't breed to bring in oxygen. Yes in the process. Of course oxygen has brought in but the body breeds to get rid of excess co two but if we are overly sensitive to co two are carbon dioxide accumulation. I'm breathing this harder now. There are very simple exercise and actually go to a couple of them budget. I'm going to go to a history. There was adopted cloud lung from Popper Hospital in Cambridge back in the nineteen seventies and he was one of those physicians he was adjust physician. He was seeing Unin crime prevention and he started writing bash and he called it the Factfile Syndrome. He said you've got a group of patients are going from doctor to doctor. They are having a myriad of different symptoms an altered. They're having symptoms which is not just related to organ system and he said that these patients are going from doctor to doctor. Doctor Doctor Doctor. They're having these tests. The tests are coming back. Negative the the doctor. Dan thinks that the the patient in front of them as a hypochondriac because they have earned array of symptoms that are not related to each other and that the patient is often to to go home towards go home. Take a deep breakfast themselves. Day Dr Claude Code the Factfile Syndrome. Because he said that the thickness of the patient's file is a diagnostic. Clue of white or chronic ventilation syndrome is present on. He said the tip of the file gives us more information than the contents Darren. Now why was that not taken aboard by the medical profession because medical doctors? This is taken from a book code and behavioral and Psychological Approaches to breathing. Ring back in one thousand nine hundred four by two medical doctors. They asked a question. If hyperventilation syndrome is causing so much difficulties at their. Why hasn't it being embraced? Their conclusion was medical doctor. Said it wasn't dared demane that it was the domain of psychiatry. They handed the field of breathing hyperventilation syndrome to the psychiatrist. But two psychiatrists said it wasn't dared to Maine. They handed it back to the medical doctors and had fell between two stools. And you know even physiotherapy and physiotherapy of course is a wonderful modality but teaching die from Ati breathing but not teaching nose breathing. That's a mistake. You cannot achieve die fanatic abdominal breathing without breathing in and out through the nose. You know we have to consider that the airway is one airway it's unified airway. We have to think of the knows. We have to think of the lungs. We have to think of die from and asthma. One reason that it hasn't been embraced as well as because it takes time to work with clients and medical doctors don't have time. They're they are required to see four patients every hour and I know one medical doctor. We were like she's one of our own structures and we have a number of medical doctors on our board but the workload that they are put under like. How can you realistically assess somebody's breathing? You know in fifteen minutes and literally a don't have fifty minutes. I think her workload was seventy clients. Day was what she seventy patients. A day was what she had to say. She account just no way. It's not possible so as a result them it's turned every it's turned it into a prescription machine because of speed because of efficiency and and breathing is just one of those things could impart so many different benefits. Now I'M GONNA before I go off on a tangent I would say to people. Slowing breathing can be difficult enough for some people. Did the mind as education as I said before you know meditation is often prescribed. But how can you meditate? If your mind is a mess literally so I would say the best way to do that. To do. Small toads it has a calming effect in the mind and an exercise that you could do or anybody could be doing that. Has No side effects is take a normal breath in and out through the nose and the holder knows and count to five says number breath. Dan Number breath at five four. Three two one let go. I'm breed norm for ten seconds. So now breathe Norma for ten seconds. This seems such a simple exercise and again taken over breath in and out trio knows whole. Gino's five four three two one. Let go but breathe in ambery norm for ten seconds so you just breathing normal for ten seconds and again taken over breath in and out and hold five four three two one let go to breathe in and breathe normally for ten seconds and again taken over by in and out and hold five four three two one case. That's one exercise that can be very useful when people are stressed. Because you know hold your breath The mind desiging aged as opposed to just trying to focus on your breathing because you focus on your breath your mind goes off. You're focusing on your bed. Your mind gets out goes off you get frustrated and then you give it up whereas you can come down the central nervous system and all you're doing is and it's interesting there. You've taken up so mucus and the reason being is because Hydra taken over by the international hold and as you how'd your breath carbon dioxide increases in the blood a little but nitric. Oxide accumulates in the nasal cavity. And when you laco. You're carrying that nitric oxide into your lungs. The nitric oxide doesn't Bronco Donator Tabs. Open the airways so if there was a little bit of mucus trapped in the lungs it can bring up so I just give you a couple of minutes in the biochemistry to sell if you sit back into the sack chest. One hundred zero bugger. Naval doesn't matter how do you know just I give you a very simple instruction and what I want to just chew it into your breathing patterns feeling Brad coming in. There's your breath out. There's your breath coming into the body and there's your breath leaving the body dish breath coming into the body and there's your breath leaving the body. I would like to do is slow down the speed of your bring Ben Okay. So there's your brats scenario Brenton really slow to a certain shouldn't see as much movement and a really relaxed and slow prolonged explanation having a relaxes slow prolonged the nation and then take a very soft and slow breath in a very soft and slow breath in very soft and slow and a prolonged. Relax sex elation and the whole objective is to breathe by thirty percent less air into your body. You know that you were doing correctly when you feel their hunger. This is the biochemistry aspect of breathing. Not Concentrating to die from. I'm only concentrating on reducing the volume of breathing reducing the minute ventilation to allow carbon dioxide to accumulate in the blood to generate a feeling of air hunger. Keep practicing that just for about thirty seconds or so now. When people would panic disorder practice dot sometimes a concept into a firefight response because they have an aversion of suffocation. This is where we have to go very gentle with them. I want to give the Matisse Spoon of disaffiliation to deconditioning their body towards that feeling of suffocation but I don't want to put them into that firefight and it's a tremendous approach because you know when you slow down your breathing like Dash. Generally you will find. What in three to four minutes. You've got increased Walrus. Live in the Max your hand getting warmer and you feel drowsy so it's great exercise to do before sleep but the Air Hunger. We have to be careful which another aspect that we looked at. Dennis to buy mechanic so if you sit back into the chair I put your hands either side of your lower to rips. So you have your side have your hands either side of your lower two ribs and as you breathe in that your ribs are just gently moving out as you breathe at. Your ribs are gently moving and as you breathe in your Ribs Agenda Moving Act and as you breathe at your ribs gently moving so as you breathe in your lower ribs or gently moving out and as you breathe at your lower abs or gently moving to breathe life with this so you can breathe. This is a deep Braxton. The true sense of the word use should never hear a deep Brett. Deep Breakfast means that you are breathing low so because we want to maintain the biochemistry and the by mechanics and now what I'm GonNa do is as you do that. Bring in cadence breathing and going to simply just have your breathing for five seconds and breathe for five seconds. So I'm just GonNa time here so you're breathing in two three four five four five hours in two three four five three four five pause in two three four five out three four five pause in two three four five at three four five pause in two three four five out three four five pause so that there is simple cadence breathing. You're breathing in for five seconds. You're breathing for five seconds if you look at the research on cadence breathing in terms of influencing the autonomic nervous system the functioning of the body. That's normally outside of control. We have to think of two branches. The power sympathetic branch which is responsible for rest and digest and the sympathetic branch which is responsible are regarded as fight or flight. And even looking polly Vega Terry. But we want to do is we want to achieve a balance between the power sympathetic and sympathetic response on by practicing five at six percent. Sorry six Installation for five seconds exultation for five seconds or in relation for four seconds explanation for six seconds it brings about a balance between the par sympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system. It's it's amazing. The research that has been done in terms of cadence breathing and coherence. Hartwig freighter Benxi and you know stimulating. Vegas narrow of improving out of your ventilation and conditions that are associated anxiety has been looked at post traumatic stress sleep depression. That's just an indication of the Bradfo I would say to people is. Don't just focus on breathing in for five and act for five seconds. If you were doing it do it for a slow. So in other words think of the balance between the biochemistry by mechanics indicate and some breathing you want to focus on one dimension and sacrificed. You're too that's what normally happens breathing and I'll come back to this nose. Breathing is absolutely the foundation of all three dimensions because your nose slows down your breathing to allow oxygen transfer to take place more ready from the lungs into the blood. Nasal breathing imposes resistance to your breathing to have a more normal carbon dioxide. Yes you can still breed too hard breathing through the nose. You can have fast upper chest breathing breathing through the nose but you're less likely mouth. Breathing is the worst thing that we can do. Nobody should wake up in a dry Mac in the morning. If you have your might open in the morning you know if you have your Matt Open during sleep your sleep. Quality is not as good as it should be so I think. Yeah it's just simple term and I would love to see this getting out. There in terms of people would excited because some even if they just practised at it will cost absolutely nothing and and put it into practice now. Of course you can go deeper and I've only wants to give you a snapshot of Dash but for people to start doing that at least check to the half. The Matt Open are deciding Because sl every few minutes is not A. It's not a good idea sign. It can suggests that the person you know they have air hunger that they are feeling that they are not getting a air. And how do you address that air hunger while nasal all the time do all of your physical exercise? Which closed even if you go for a run. Initially it's tougher. But if you expose your body to a little bit of air hunger by eater slowing down and reducing breathing volume are going for a walk with your Matt closed. Are Running with your Matt closed if you can do wish dot and turned than we're quite near breathing and your breathing becomes naturally slower and die for matic. The air hunger reduces so what we want to do. Is You know you think of panic disorder. Years ago people used to say what if you're having a panic attack breathing out of a bike? The whole purpose of the by not bringing oxygen but it was to trap the carbon dioxide that was coming from the lungs into the bag to rebrith that carbon dioxide back into the lungs to increase it in the bloods because as carbon dioxide increases in the blood blood flow to the brain increases across at archery. Stylish and this is a calming affected. The brain the brain fields air hunger when it's not getting enough oxygen and a panic attack when I look at the people the breathing of people who are prone to panic disorder. These people are teetering on the brink of symptoms. It's not the crowded place. That'S THE PROBLEM. It's not the supermarket. It's not the the driving the car. The problem is they're everyday breathing is not rush that they have a habit. And that's all it is. It is a habit of persistently over breathing. I'm breathing incorrectly. Which can be changed. I'm by doing that. You Improve Your resilience when you do go into a crowded place you are beverly but to cope with it but I have to say yes. Sorry I'm just GonNa face place when I talk to a group of individuals who work with mental health. I spoke about Debenham of functional breathing. And I said it's I said cognitive behavioral therapy is absolutely wonderful which it is but I said to them I said it's not addressing respond to physiology and nobody wanted to hear what I was saying because they fat Dash I was saying that communism behavioral therapy wasn't good enough. Which wasn't and that. I was saying that you know people fat that the healthcare professionals that I was talking to because I couldn't get over it like I was running through my mind afterwards. I'm saying now I know why. Breathing hasn't got into healthcare and it hasn't been embraced in in psychotherapy because the individuals that I spoke to that day they couldn't accept dash. You know. Breathing does play a role. And that's why I would say to you know any of your listeners. You're probably wondering. Why is this so good? I haven't been told about it. We have to consider human nature. Here we are all resistant to change in. Oh if if I'm practicing something for twenty years as I was doing reputational. I was resistant to moving outside of beautiful. It was only when I did. Oxygen advantage that that kind of open up that door so I think it's a very in Asia I think it's enormous trade of the human being. We are slow to embrace our to adopt a change. Some people do but the majority of people are not resistant but I would say to the listeners. Give this a go. You know because you will generally feel the difference in two weeks and even if you were to just sit back into a chair have your lips together just but one hundred your chest one hand just above your Navel Choon into your breathing and gently slow it down and gently slow it down to the point of a little air hunger so deliberately reduced the amount of air coming into your body do it for a miniature to see how it feels if it's comfortable and continue for three minutes if it gets a bit stressful take rest than start again. Can you influence your blood circulation by slowing down your breathing? If you start to feel your hands getting warmer you know that you're on the right track and it's not just that you're increasing blood flow to your hands. You're also increasing votes brand. Sorry Howard could across through the night something fun I was GonNa say Just briefly straight it when you have people seek people who coming with anxiety that a traditional therapeutic therapists psycho therapist counselors who all essentially centrally pseudo being the very over-simplifying breathing strategies to people And just getting to take deep breaths and then doing the and so will end do you. Don't just sit in the whole goodness me. And that's keeping them trapped essentially. Yeah I would agree on. It's not offering any benefits you know even would like it does feel satisfied to take that big. Brett because you're stretching everything and you're releasing ish but it can disrupt the biochemistry and data's the issue I suppose I realized gone back. Maybe fifteen years ago that not everybody wants to hear our wants to hear on a different approach. But why did that? That's why I wrote so many books because I can put out the information that you know. Nobody's think about covert at the moment nitric oxide. There's pinnacle tries nitric oxide for covert nineteen in two thousand and five krona virus which was SARS grown viruses. A family of course this is a different strain but the SARS virus back. In Two thousand five laboratory experiments showed that nitric oxide inhibited. The replication of the cycle Dino's as a source of nitric. Oxide just cynical tries if you put in chemical tries nitric oxide you say you will see the doors. Clinical trials now on nitric oxide is a treatment of the current Cova Nineteen. But nobody's talking about nose breathing so I wanted to get information out there and I did. I just did a Webinar two weeks ago unquote at nineteen and it was oversubscribed. I didn't realize zoom. You can only have one hundred people and people were disappointed to wants to hear to open it up on. Youtube and I put it up. It's after having a half million juice and all it did was go to exercise and talk about. What can you do here? So this is the beauty about getting the information to the general public. Having people putting it into practice you will never like auto at say. Is it would breathing. Don't think that don't have it in your mind and it's good to be taken does hired big Brett's because it's not going to increase oxygen and just ask yourself. How do you feel you're feeling lightheaded? It's not a good son now. I understand what hollow tropic breathing? It's a deliberate hyperventilation for a period of time as a stressor to deal with trauma. That's fine it's short term. But it's not how we should be breathing all the time I'm concerned. But how is the person breathing whom they walk down the stretch Howard breathing Dr Truecar Howard a breathing? They are sleep Howard. A breathing. Negoti distress dots the breathing that we need to be looking at so there is a time that people will be practicing hyperventilation after during the technique etc. I don't teach hyperventilation. I'm trying to address dysfunctional breathing patterns. So I was GonNa ask you about the with the with the impulse method because officer people have been using it the is and I think there was an idea one point that he had some special sort of genetic disposition to be able to stay under the Wolves. Redo with these things. Because course he's used his framework to be able to teach other people to do successfully to now switch so even though you don't teach it. Does that fly in the face of some of these things that you're talking about or is easily explicable. Within the methodology coming from a like in terms of in terms of the science with the vim half technique gone can look at his agok. A one paper that was published by Matteis cops and I think it was published in twenty fourteen and still up to the terms of bill. Oxygen Saturation didn't increase during the hyperventilation during the retention which was the breadth tolling bill. Oxygen Saturation really dropped quite remarkably to mount everest. 'em standards you know to lower your back down to forty. Fifty percent is incredible really and did the individuals doing them half were able to stood ash. They're carbon dioxide levels dropped and didn't return back to baseline and really what the locked at the deadlock that the impact of the hyperventilation it's thirty brats followed by a Bret told that breath in hold for ten seconds. Thirty thirty hyperventilation big brexit again Within for ten seconds etc they looked at the increase of epinephrine as a result. So what it did. Was that the technique the breathing technique. It's stressed at the body which increased happen Afri- distress in the in the body which caused the body to make adaptations. So I think it's an interesting. It's an interesting model interesting breathing technique. I'm not sure if I would if I was teaching the technique I'm I wouldn't teach it every two comes into me into my door because I think some will it will suit so and I think it won't sue daughters and it was like me working with responding panic disorder. I taught. I could use the same technique. Would all people coming in? I would see some people that could cope quite well but air hunger and other people the it was scaring the life out of them so I had to change all of these exercises and this is what experienced it so you know we. We have to bear in mind that different subsets innings is in panic disorder and we shouldn't be tailoring the approach to these individuals. But this is what experience does. That's what I learned through. Experience can still part Dash. We impart that onto her own. Instructors like say to them. You Know The mistakes that I've learned over the years. I'm hoping that you don't have to make these mistakes because it can take. You wanted to figure out what's going on here. You're seeing this student in front view on instead of making them feel calm. You're making them have the opposite effect and the issue is that. Don't come back to you the next time because you know they think they're making your worse whereas I've learnt dash and this way then I can prepared to student but I can also prepare the instructor so a lot of people. Now that we trained we trained a lot of healthcare instructors providers and this is great. I think breathing now is becoming hotter is becoming better well known and I have to take them technique for part of that because it is really the breath out there. It's not a part of Western poacher. Western culture is to be doing something to be achieving to be constantly going Western culture. Is You know the the guy who sits in the corner bringing his attention or her attention in words is considered maybe Dahshur but one of the best things that we could ever do in life is take attention out of the mind onto the bread into the body in terms of concentration in terms of well being in terms of happiness in terms of bringing a stillness to the mind because the chattering mind. How do you quite into traffic mind? Well I would say we have to change breathing physiology. There is a connection between the die from Andy Emotions. If you're breathing fast. Upper chest breathing. You're going to have an increase shopping. Mind look and Google Stanford medical school slow breathing so stanford medical school slow breathing. In March of twenty seventeen day identified a new structure in the brain and Locus Kerala. And they said that. This structure first identified it in mice. They sent it. This structure is spying on your breathing. And if you break fast destruction the brain is relaying signals of education to the rest of the brain and if you breathe slowly. Destruction the brain when relay signals of Cam to the rest of the brain so true out our evolution the only times that we ever got into a state of fast rapid upper chest breathing was in times of emergency and stress. Now if we are breathing that way all of the time it's telling the body it's in a state of emergency and stress. So I forget the point that I was going to make. That was off one time. But yeah it's it's yeah it's coming coming back to just embracing it from a number of different perspectives and looking at the potential of the brand product. Pongy we've talked a bit about anxiety where he focused on that. But of course you mentioned in some of the books that you told you that wouldn't he would ask Visit nonsense issues. It so what you use it for in terms of tracing conditions justice for all the stuff as well as the main conditions that work with with breathing is is sleep insomnia snoring obstructive sleep apnea for example. Somebody who is snoring or somebody's having obstructive sleep apnea. It's more likely than they are. Mouth breathing hard breathing fast breathing because this is increasing the turbulence in the airway diseases causing resistance to breathing if you breathe hard. You're more likely to snore. If you read lightened slow your breathing. A soft and just not as much resistance and also the negative pressure. Your Airways less likely to collapse. If you're breathing his life. We have to bear in mind that how bridging the day determines how during physical exercise. And how we drink sleep so disorder. Breathing is by thirty percent. Awesome as about twenty percent thirty percent. Because of course if you breathe through your nose your nose exhibits a protective mechanism for lungs. Your nose warms moistens regulates volume but also nitric oxide by breathing. Truth in those nitric oxide. Sterilizes the air redistributes the bud threat lungs and nitric oxide by redistributing the blood TRAYVON's increases the pressure of oxygen in the blood so the Po to this was discovered back in nineteen eighty eight the Po to in the blood increased by ten percent with continuous nose. Breathing versus mark. Brayden like an you know even despite this despite the BOHR effect in nineteen zero four despite this recognition in nineteen eighty under some tremendous doctors. Writing about one is in the air knows intro doctor from New Zealand contractor James Barclay. And he's written some great stuff. Finish your doctor. Claude from hat papered hospital in Anchorage in the seventies Super Timmons late. You know there are doctors writing more and more out of about this but I would love to see getting into the mains into the hands of the general public children. You know we have children coming in. We've put our our free completely free. All of the exercise for kids a completely free online and we put them up in Youtube. All of the exercises so I wanted children. Children shouldn't be you know that there shouldn't be a reason. Why on each ear Child regardless of where they are in the world that kind of practice breathing exercise to have their hat so because sometimes I was thinking about kids might be able to afford it but with if they now have access to the Internet. They can just do. It is such a strange. We've twenty clinical trials. Asthma and I've been involved but five of them co over the last two of them there in children we showed really good improvements in terms of sleep and asthma in children by getting them to breathe through the nose. And you know. I think it's remarkable that we are making some inroads there so yeah come to make a chart. Asthma sleep anxiety children and athletic performance. Those are demand fields that Bush. And I think that comes across as until conceived as a feeling at which I had as I read some of your voltage was just kind of share like y all people more people knowing about this this site but research is so much. Ns useful stuff and and saw that is not even complicated or difficult to mattis. Now why is it not being that? I mean going back to that story of me being the spiritual consultant in and him to say well. You know it's probably just anxiety. Just take debretts announced these people whose job it is to see people who are struggling with breath day in day out. And it's not even on yourself. I think it's too simple like you can also ask the question. Why weren't we taught about stillness of the mind and school and you know we were. We were taught to think we were trained. How to analyze to decipher to reason to break information into tiny pieces. The mind was developed into a thinking tool. We were trained. How to think but we were not trained how to stop thinking and that's simple even though it can be challenging bringing our attention into the present moment taking our attention onto the Brett you know bringing our attention into the body awareness you know it's simple am and but look at the potential know like how is somebody who normally presents How is that addressed? Is it often using maybe prescribed medication? And if you look at some of the clinical trials and dash that the prescribe medications often don't even perform better than the placebo effect. You know so like I suppose I. I've often wondered why I as a kid why I wasn't taught today's debate. I often wonder why people would sleep disorders. They are not taught. Today's liberate people would ask Meyer. Dana talked to nasal bridge because people would ask a typically breed open mad faster and harder Britain which is feeding their condition. But it's just that the Brett. It's not seen as being sexy. It's not you know if you're doing. A clinical trial is a medical doctor. You don't want to do clinical China breathing because it's not good for your ego. There's no you get no respect out of that. You know your colleagues even despite you have great medical doctors who are interested in breathing but the colleagues to do them. You should be doing research on stem salads. You should be doing research than latest. You know the latest thing that the best thing that's out there in terms of scientific progress how breathing but despite its ash breathing is so simple. We should never overlook the intelligence of the human body. We have a great function there. We lost when I just for few minutes. It's really vitally important. That we we give it to consideration so if people listening to this and nothing kidding okay. Just they'll send what I gotta look into when they go and how can get in touch with you to find out more. And they could. If they're interested in terms of anxiety and panic disorder and depression. I would say to go to Buteiko. Clinic DOT COM. That's B. U. T. E. Y. K. O. Finnick DOT COM. I also wrote a book ten years ago on this. It's called anxiety free and it brings together. Mindfulness with the beauty commented on if people are interested in sports performance oxygen advantage dot com so oxygen advantage dot com on about performance concentration resilience. I'M BEAUTIFUL CLINIC DOT COM. You know different tents and two shoes and you mentioned that you recorded the youtube that a access people could do during the nineteen that just a date. This compensation that swear is now Drills the debate that we're having this conversation says the U. K. is currently in lockdown. It's the hunks of the corona at that pandemic. Would you be to Shat? Only the podcast page linked to that VIDEO NAPA National Schmidt. Five to all of those exercises would be helpful for the mind because it couvert nineteen. If people have responded to a distress I have to go very easy and of course if people have emotional distress I have to go easy so the exercise in terms of small battles gentle slow breathing light breathing in actual fact. That could be a great place. That's forty minutes so not only. Could it help if you have responded to distress but it will also help if you have emotional distress and I would also say to people does if you wake up. Dr Act in the morning stopped looking at getting your Matt closed during sleep. It's very very important. It was one of the best things that I did in terms of waking up fit and refreshed and remember as being a youngster in school. You know if you don't have the if you don't have a good night's sleep. It's very difficult to concentration that I would be looking at page and above but my attention wasn't there because my attention was stuck in my head and I think it's all it's all interconnected so we need to get you know we can't just look at Tab. You know breathing by itself but I would say definitely. Breathing is Bryant. Put the focus on but we have to take into consideration consideration emotions and sleep after. This has been so fascinating. Thank you so much time out of your busy schedule to To Talk to me into chef some of these souls I really really really hyped all the people listening and look into this in more detail and stop playing around with it. Not just full themselves but also looking brought up How the people looking more functionally not just The psychological stuff around looking at nap breathing in the impact of that six. I thank you. Is there anything you'd like to add share with the audience that I have not directly. I'm going to twenty minute relaxation. Mp Three five that put the I'll give you the link and it's deceit that that's found in the buck anxiety-free and people got a lot of benefit from it. And so you could listen to this before we go to sleep or whatever I sometimes this to myself. So it's relaxation bringing together relaxed breathing exercises just to allow you just to take some time. Ask Give give yourself arrest. Take a holiday from the mind untested. Thank you so much Patrick. Brea Prochet Guitar Time Today. I hope you enjoyed this episode and if you did one not share it with anyone you think might be interested uneven head over to itunes to give us a glowing review. You'll find more about what's coming up on our facebook page. Facebook DOT COM forward slash? Rapid Change Matters Hyphen podcast. And of course we'll find all the links relate to this episode plus those upcoming live events that will help you hone those change work skills.

nose breathing mouth breathing Brett bloods Howard Cooper Dr Buteiko Butare Cloyne Nash Dan Number polly Vega Terry intern physical exercise Patrick McEwen Patrick asthma